# Has anyone done Dr. Jay Gordon's nightweaning plan?



## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

DH and I are planning on starting it tomorrow night for our 13-month-old DS. I would love to hear about others' experiences with this... How long did it take? How bad was it? Anything you'd do differently?

Also, his plan says to pick a seven-hour window and to wean during that time, but I'm wondering if it's possible to try for the whole time (from when he first falls asleep to when he wakes up in the morning). Friends of mine who've done other methods (gentle ones, not CIO) have had success in their LO sleeping that whole time. Also, I feel like just doing the seven hours might be confusing to DS - let's say my window is from 11pm-6am and DS wakes up around 10:30pm, so I nurse him, but then when he wakes up around 2am, I don't... couldn't that be sort of confusing to a baby, like, sometimes it's okay at night and sometimes it's not?

Thanks for any help or insight you might have


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## SuperMarcy (Jul 4, 2004)

I had planned to use the technique Dr. Gordon outlines on his website! A friend of mine sees him as her dd's pediatrician and she asked about this technique at one of her visits. He basically said that it works, but cold turkey works faster. So we ended up just going cold turkey one night. It was a rough night, I'm not gonna lie! We chose 11-5 (not even the recommended 7 hours) and fed him if he woke up before 11. But when he woke up around midnight we just kept saying "it's time to sleep, we'll eat in the morning". He cried and fussed for nearly 2 hours (in bed with dh and me, of course). The next night he fussed for about 45 minutes. And since then he's slept just fine! Now, he goes to sleep around 8ish and doesn't wake until 5. I feed him his bottle and he goes back to sleep for another 1.5 to 2 hours.

HTH!


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## HollyRhea (Jul 17, 2007)

I did it successfully with my then 16 month old. Somehow, it just worked. She'd been waking up hourly to nurse prior to that.


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SuperMarcy* 
I had planned to use the technique Dr. Gordon outlines on his website! A friend of mine sees him as her dd's pediatrician and she asked about this technique at one of her visits. He basically said that it works, but cold turkey works faster. So we ended up just going cold turkey one night. It was a rough night, I'm not gonna lie! We chose 11-5 (not even the recommended 7 hours) and fed him if he woke up before 11. But when he woke up around midnight we just kept saying "it's time to sleep, we'll eat in the morning". He cried and fussed for nearly 2 hours (in bed with dh and me, of course). The next night he fussed for about 45 minutes. And since then he's slept just fine! Now, he goes to sleep around 8ish and doesn't wake until 5. I feed him his bottle and he goes back to sleep for another 1.5 to 2 hours.

HTH!

Thanks for the reply! Dr. Gordon is also my ped, so I've emailed him to see what he thinks about us trying to expand the window. It makes sense that going cold turkey would work faster - good for you for having the guts to stick with it. I just don't know that I have the stomach to hear DS fuss for that long. But then again, I don't know that I have the stomach to NOT get sleep for another year, so maybe I need to keep that in mind! And that's awesome that your DS sleeps for the whole stretch! When your DS was fussing, was he trying to get to your boob? How did you fend him off from that?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HollyRhea* 
I did it successfully with my then 16 month old. Somehow, it just worked. She'd been waking up hourly to nurse prior to that.

Thanks for the hope! I really am a bit freaked out by doing this since we have never done anything like this with DS. I'm hoping that, like you said, it just works.


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## terpgirl23 (Oct 30, 2007)

Do you have a link to this "plan"? I am on his web site now and finding lots of great stuff, but I don't seem to find exactly what you are talking about.

We have a 13-month old who went from sleeping from 9-5, nursing for a bit and then sleeping until 8, to a baby that gets up every 2-3 hours to nurse. This all came after a series of bad ear infections, growth spurt and hititng some milestones (walking, crawing), so I know she is going through a lot, but we are wiped. We have read and tried Pantley's "No Cry Sleep Solution" and she has lots of great tips, but it just seems like such a long process. I am just looking for some other ideas to come up with a plan that works for our family.

Do you cosleep as well?


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *terpgirl23* 
Do you have a link to this "plan"? I am on his web site now and finding lots of great stuff, but I don't seem to find exactly what you are talking about.

We have a 13-month old who went from sleeping from 9-5, nursing for a bit and then sleeping until 8, to a baby that gets up every 2-3 hours to nurse. This all came after a series of bad ear infections, growth spurt and hititng some milestones (walking, crawing), so I know she is going through a lot, but we are wiped. We have read and tried Pantley's "No Cry Sleep Solution" and she has lots of great tips, but it just seems like such a long process. I am just looking for some other ideas to come up with a plan that works for our family.

Do you cosleep as well?

Here's a link to the plan - scroll down to the lower part of the page...

http://www.drjaygordon.com/development/ap/sleep.asp

Yes, we co-sleep. And I am flip flopping on if I want to do this or not. Last night, DS slept for 6 hours straight (we haven't started the program yet), so now I am wondering if he's slowly going to get there on his own and we don't need to give him a shove. But then what if tonight he's up another 4 times like usual? Then I'm going to be frustrated that we didn't just start it. Ugggh, I'm so torn.


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## LoveOhm (Apr 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SuperMarcy* 
I had planned to use the technique Dr. Gordon outlines on his website! A friend of mine sees him as her dd's pediatrician and she asked about this technique at one of her visits. He basically said that it works, but cold turkey works faster. So we ended up just going cold turkey one night. It was a rough night, I'm not gonna lie! We chose 11-5 (not even the recommended 7 hours) and fed him if he woke up before 11. But when he woke up around midnight we just kept saying "it's time to sleep, we'll eat in the morning". He cried and fussed for nearly 2 hours (in bed with dh and me, of course). The next night he fussed for about 45 minutes. And since then he's slept just fine! Now, he goes to sleep around 8ish and doesn't wake until 5. I feed him his bottle and he goes back to sleep for another 1.5 to 2 hours.

HTH!

Jay is my dd's pediatrician as well and honestly I cannot imagine him saying that to ANYONE. He is soooo careful of his advice when it comes to sleep and young children.

To the OP it is my understanding that the method Jay outlines is very good and works. Personally I don't think you have gone this long avoiding all the tears to just push your child too fast. Please realize I am not saying all crying is bad.... just try to not allow yourself to look for the quick fix out of desperation and lack of mommy sleep!

I would suggest following Jay's plan with the window suggest and that you will find your child will naturally extend it. (I know this is true for several families I know!) Also if the night nursing is the issue you can contact Cythia Epps thru the Pump Station in Santa Monica and she has a plan for night weaning that seems to be well respected. Good Luck!

Sorry I have no personal advice my dd sleeps wonderfully & even though she still nurses thru the night (and sometimes naps too) it does not seem to wake me at night. My issue is the times she seems to sleep best are soooo late.


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LoveOhm* 
Jay is my dd's pediatrician as well and honestly I cannot imagine him saying that to ANYONE. He is soooo careful of his advice when it comes to sleep and young children.

To the OP it is my understanding that the method Jay outlines is very good and works. Personally I don't think you have gone this long avoiding all the tears to just push your child too fast. Please realize I am not saying all crying is bad.... just try to not allow yourself to look for the quick fix out of desperation and lack of mommy sleep!

I would suggest following Jay's plan with the window suggest and that you will find your child will naturally extend it. (I know this is true for several families I know!) Also if the night nursing is the issue you can contact Cythia Epps thru the Pump Station in Santa Monica and she has a plan for night weaning that seems to be well respected. Good Luck!

Sorry I have no personal advice my dd sleeps wonderfully & even though she still nurses thru the night (and sometimes naps too) it does not seem to wake me at night. My issue is the times she seems to sleep best are soooo late.

Hello fellow Dr. Gordon-ite! I know what you are saying about not looking for the quick fix, BUT... it is the lack of mommy sleep and desperation that is pushing me to even consider this method. My DH and I are adamantly against sleep training, so this is a huge stretch for us. In fact, when we met with Jay for our 1-year appt., he brought it up - night weaning - but I wasn't interested then because I wasn't THIS tired (and sick). I guess if someone told me that DS would start STTN (or close to it) in three months, I would just hang on and wait it out. Three months will be here in no time. I just don't want him to be two years old and still waking and me a walking corpse. And, what if DS is really ready for this and it only takes a few semi-easy nights? If only I had a crystal ball, right?!


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## channelofpeace (Jul 14, 2005)

We did this recently with our 17 month old. I wasn't sleeping well nursing all night long and would wakeup with a backache in the morning. And it went very easily, actually. When i nursed him and unlatched him before he was in a deep sleep, he was unhappy. I scooted him to his daddy for snuggles, he cried for a minute and fell asleep. He wasn't willing to give up his 4 or 5 a.m. nursing, so he nurses from 4/5 until we get up at 6:30 or 7. It was a good compromise though. He is now sleeping peacefully between us from 10 or 11 until 4 or 5. So much better!


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *milkydoula* 
We did this recently with our 17 month old. I wasn't sleeping well nursing all night long and would wakeup with a backache in the morning. And it went very easily, actually. When i nursed him and unlatched him before he was in a deep sleep, he was unhappy. I scooted him to his daddy for snuggles, he cried for a minute and fell asleep. He wasn't willing to give up his 4 or 5 a.m. nursing, so he nurses from 4/5 until we get up at 6:30 or 7. It was a good compromise though. He is now sleeping peacefully between us from 10 or 11 until 4 or 5. So much better!









Thank you, thank you for this positive story! So, did you do the 7 hour window or is your DC sleeping from when they first go to sleep to that 4/5 feeding? And, how many nights did your DC wake up upset? It sounds like just one night - could that be?!


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

I did it with my ds, who was 2.5 at the time I think. I followed it for the first 6 days, but didn't/wouldn't have done the next step (which is "don't pick him up or hug him"). I decided I wasn't going to take away the cuddling to sleep any time soon.
We had 3 nights of crying, shorter each night. After that, he pretty much slept most of the night, with maybe one waking very close to morning time.


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## odenata (Feb 1, 2005)

I night weaned my daughter when she was right around two. I looked at Dr. Gordon's plan, but ended up doing things a little differently, and just thought I'd share our experience.

We waited until it was summer and the nights were shorter, and then told dd that "mommy milk" was "sleeping" once she went to bed until the sun came up, and that she could nurse in the morning (since the sun came up around 5, it wasn't too long a span). We did this because I felt it was an easier idea for her to understand than a random time like 11pm. I just imagined it being confusing to her - "why when I wake up sometimes can I nurse and sometimes I can't?" The sun up being was an easy thing to go by.

We talked about this with her through the day, and we told her this again before she went to bed. We still nursed at bedtime, but she wasn't going to sleep at night nursing. (Our sleeping arrangement was this: she started the night in her bed in her room, and if she woke up while we were still awake, either DH would walk with her or I would nurse her. If we were in bed, she came in to bed with us.)

The first night was hard. We would remind her gently that mommy milk was asleep and would sing and rock with her. One of us was up with her most the night. The next day, I was talking with a friend, and she said they had just night weaned their LO, and they made a rule that they weren't going to get out of bed (the co-slept full-time). They just held her and calmed her down in bed. This sounded better to me, so the next night we did this, and it was much easier. By the third night, she wouldn't cry at all when we said mommy milk was asleep, she would just cuddle in with us.

So really, it ended up being much easier than I thought it would be, with the exception of the first night.

I have to say, what I didn't like about the Dr. Gordon plan was the progression of putting down awake and then not picking up. For me, that has nothing to do with night weaning and more to do with modified sleep training, which isn't what we wanted to do.


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## channelofpeace (Jul 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happy2bamama* 
Thank you, thank you for this positive story! So, did you do the 7 hour window or is your DC sleeping from when they first go to sleep to that 4/5 feeding? And, how many nights did your DC wake up upset? It sounds like just one night - could that be?!

Sorry, that was the reader's digest version, i was holding a sleeping baby









Here is the scoop: Our arrangement is that i nurse him to sleep at 7 and put him down in a crib in "his" room. When he awakens (usually between 10 and 11) he comes to our room and sleeps with us. Our seven hour window was from 10 to 5. He doesn't really wake up before ten much anymore, so in essence, our window was really 7 to 5. The first four nights, he would wake up, i would nurse him, unlatch and scoot for snuggling with daddy, and he would fall back asleep usually in under two minutes, never more than five. The first 3? nights he woke up around 10 and 1 and we would do our thing. I realized in the first few nights that his 4, 4:30ish nursing was very important to him, he didn't fall back to sleep easily, so that was our compromise. So our nights have looked like this recently: Nurse to sleep at 7 in his own room, wake up between 10-11 and come into our bedroom, and then asleep until his four (sometimes 5) a.m. feeding.

I guess we kinda did a modified version since he was so laid back about it. We never really did the "pick up and hug" (well, except when we carry him to our room), we kinda snuggled him back to sleep (and still are, if he wakes briefly at night). But he doesn't wake up upset.

I think that we just hit a really good window of opportunity for him... previous to this, we were battling chronic ear infections and teething, so it wasn't really a good time until now. He seemed to take to it easily, so i think he was ready.

Good luck with your little one!


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## crazyrunningmama (Dec 16, 2006)

We nightweaned at Christmas time. I was in your situation, cosleeping and just going nuts from sleep deprivation. PMS on top of it all is what decided me. I thought about Dr. Jay's plan and even attempted it the first night, but such is my dd's personality that I figured it would just be ticking her off over and over (at each stage) and it would be easier if it was just one change in routine. She was 19 1/2 months then. She was upset that she couldn't go to sleep at the breast at the beginning of her night and pretty upset at her first wake up. After that she was quite easily soothed by me just being there and singing. I would have picked her up and cuddled but she has never been into that for sleeping (bf was the only important part of the nighttime routine for her). After that, it went very smoothly, very little upsetness and we saw an improvement in night wakings immediately. She had been waking every hour to hour and a half, all night, every night, for the previous YEAR.

I think it is easier to understand a change like this if other more concrete things also change. I had to give up cosleeping for the time being because my snoring and moving wakes her up (then she wakes me up). So I took away the futon mattress we had been sharing and replaced it with her (until now completely unused) crib mattress on the floor. She can climb out of the crib, soon it will be converted to a toddler bed. I also brought a chair into the room to sit in and breastfeed. So the nighttime routine changed to clean up, bath, read books, nurse IN CHAIR (rather than laying down with her). Then I would tell her or she would decide herself when to get down off my lap and go lie down. If you cosleep, you could change the orientation of the bed or switch sides with your dh or something to show the "new" routine.

AND after about 3 weeks, she started forgetting to nurse as part of the routine, so clearly she is not starving in the night. I also make sure she has some protein and whole grain as close to bedtime as possible.


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *milkydoula* 
Sorry, that was the reader's digest version, i was holding a sleeping baby









Here is the scoop: Our arrangement is that i nurse him to sleep at 7 and put him down in a crib in "his" room. When he awakens (usually between 10 and 11) he comes to our room and sleeps with us. Our seven hour window was from 10 to 5. He doesn't really wake up before ten much anymore, so in essence, our window was really 7 to 5. The first four nights, he would wake up, i would nurse him, unlatch and scoot for snuggling with daddy, and he would fall back asleep usually in under two minutes, never more than five. The first 3? nights he woke up around 10 and 1 and we would do our thing. I realized in the first few nights that his 4, 4:30ish nursing was very important to him, he didn't fall back to sleep easily, so that was our compromise. So our nights have looked like this recently: Nurse to sleep at 7 in his own room, wake up between 10-11 and come into our bedroom, and then asleep until his four (sometimes 5) a.m. feeding.

I guess we kinda did a modified version since he was so laid back about it. We never really did the "pick up and hug" (well, except when we carry him to our room), we kinda snuggled him back to sleep (and still are, if he wakes briefly at night). But he doesn't wake up upset.

I think that we just hit a really good window of opportunity for him... previous to this, we were battling chronic ear infections and teething, so it wasn't really a good time until now. He seemed to take to it easily, so i think he was ready.

Good luck with your little one!

Thanks for the longer version!







Something I'm still wondering about - did you nurse your DS after (or right before) you brought him into your bed? I'm hoping that our DS will be like yours. He already falls asleep sometimes with Dada massaging him, so I'm thinking that that will be key for us. We decided to do the window of 11-6 instead of going cold turkey. I really want this to be the easiest it can be on him and he usually wakes up around 9:30 or 10:30pm, so hopefully he'll get all filled up before the long stretch begins. Although, I'm hoping he does away with that waking all together once this all starts to make sense to him. And, I like your compromise with that 4/5am feeding being important to your DS. My DS has been waking around 5am and then nursing back to sleep for about 1.5 hours, so if he wakes up at 5am tomorrow morning, I'm not going to split hairs and make him wait until 6am to nurse. Thanks again for your help!

To the other posters - thanks too for your input! I totally agree with the pp that said that they didn't follow the last nights of Dr. Gordon's plan where you don't pick up, hold or cuddle the baby when they wake up. We're not on board for that either. I'm hoping that we won't even be pushed in that direction or need all 10 nights!


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## Anny (Apr 7, 2007)

Oh this is exactly the thread I have been wanting to read ! My 12 month old DD has been waking hourly for MONTHS and I am starting to feel really exhausted. I am toying with the idea of night weaning her in the hope that it will stop at least some of the night wakings, but am not wanting to do anything that would be hard on her since she is so young. I am not really ready to do it, but if I don't get some solid sleep soon I will go nuts.
I will be keeping a close eye on this thread to see how you go !
Wonderfull tips and experiences....
Good luck !


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

So, last night was our first night and here's what happened...

I set the window at 11pm-6am, but if DS woke up close to 6am (before), I wasn't going to argue over an hour or so and I would just nurse him.

DS woke up around 10:40pm (smart guy!) so he got one feed in before the window. Then, he woke up around 12:20am again. And it was perfect in a way because these are exactly the kind of wakings that have been draining me - he just ate two hours earlier, so I know this is not because of hunger - he doesn't know how to put himself back to sleep without the boob once he wakes up. His initial reaction was anger and crying, really hard, and DS is not a crier, so that part was no fun. But, it only lasted about 5 minutes. At one point, DH took DS out of the bed and walked him, which calmed him, but then they came back just a few minutes later. DS kept sitting up and coming over to me and was frustrated. He was pulling at my shirt. That part was hard to bear. But, I started singing and humming to him and we kept laying him back down. He was fussing at first, but then he laid there and I could see the wheels spinning, like, "How do I go to sleep now?" I ended up whispering a song to him over and over and he just laid there and every once in a while he'd try for milk again. His eyes were just blinking. DH was massaging him, I was kissing him and holding his hand and singing - very gentle. He finally put himself to sleep about an hour and a half after initially waking up. He just rolled over one time and that was it. That beginning stretch of DS being so upset was tough to take, but once we got over the hump and he calmed, it was fine.

Then, DS woke up around 4:45am. When I tried massaging him, he was totally unhappy, like, "Noooooooo! Not this sh*t again!" and I decided to nurse him. I hope it didn't set us back, but when I thought about it, we could cuddle/sing/massage him and it might've taken him an hour to fall back asleep (which would've been okay), but by that point it would be almost 6am, which is when the window ends, so it just seemed too close to me to be fighting over an hour or so. Any thoughts from people who've BTDT? DS fed like he's never fed before! This morning, he's all smiles and happy, so that makes us feel better. I'm not looking forward to tonight, but I've heard that the second night is easier. I definitely feel good about DS having to put himself to sleep (with us right there, of course). It was clear to me last night that that's what we're really dealing with.

Any tips, stories, thoughts? Is the second night easier?!


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## mariskamom (Aug 11, 2007)

Thank you so much for this posting! Last night was my first attempt at not allowing 12 month old DD to nurse for a period of time and it was rough! She cried for 12 minutes - very hard sobbing. She was very difficult to sooth and I cannot tell you how awful I felt. The next wake up was easier and I did nurse her early in the morning.

I feel like I have to do this now because DD is biting VERY hard and it is especially true at night. I can't seem to get her to stop biting and I can't take it anymore. Plus, she is tired from waking every 1-2 hours and so am I.

I recommend reading Pantey's No Cry for Toddlers book as it gave me other ideas to use with Dr. Gordon's suggestions. I am not going to do the no sooth either. Just no breast.

Please continue to check in on this posting! I want to hear how it is going and exchange ideas. This is one of the hardest things I have had to do as a mother.


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## TonyaW (Dec 5, 2006)

Well, I tried this one night with my son and decided to stop. My son was waking hourly a couple weeks ago and now is down to every 2 hours. We actually had a 6 hour stretch of sleep a couple of nights ago, unless I just don't remember waking, and I thought I was glad I didn't continue with trying to night wean my 14 mo old son. But since that one night we are back to every 2 hours and then in the early morning hours of 4am on he wakes hourly. So I am considering the night weaning thing again. However I don't know if my son is ready. The night we tried he cried for 30 minutes and begged, begged, begged to nurse saying, "shaw, shaw, shaw over and over which I don't know what it means but he says it when he wants to nurse and pulling my shirt up and crawling on me and straddling me. I felt so horrible! Then he stopped and just played in bed for an hour and I broke down and finally nursed him to sleep. I know I didn't do my part but I read something a couple of days later that made me feel like I shouldn't have done it. Now I don't remember what.

Anyway my son is underweight in the negative 5th percentile and my ped suggested that it was becasue he is nursing all night long and not eating enough solids in the daytime because he isn't hungry enough. Does anyone know if this is true and have a similar experience? I know waking too often can result in growth hormones being low too. If this is a strong possibility then night weaning will become a priority! I just feel so bad when he cries and begs and so exhausted when I can't sleep in the middle of the night!


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mariskamom* 
Thank you so much for this posting! Last night was my first attempt at not allowing 12 month old DD to nurse for a period of time and it was rough! She cried for 12 minutes - very hard sobbing. She was very difficult to sooth and I cannot tell you how awful I felt. The next wake up was easier and I did nurse her early in the morning.

I feel like I have to do this now because DD is biting VERY hard and it is especially true at night. I can't seem to get her to stop biting and I can't take it anymore. Plus, she is tired from waking every 1-2 hours and so am I.

I recommend reading Pantey's No Cry for Toddlers book as it gave me other ideas to use with Dr. Gordon's suggestions. I am not going to do the no sooth either. Just no breast.

Please continue to check in on this posting! I want to hear how it is going and exchange ideas. This is one of the hardest things I have had to do as a mother.

So, I'm not alone out there! I know what you mean by this being one of the hardest things to do as a mother. The way that I feel okay about it is to know that DH and I are right here with him the entire time - no letting him cry alone - just lots and lots of love, massage and sweet sounds. And, I have to remember that it's not like he's starving or being neglected. He's basically just not getting something that he wants. And up until this point, I've been fine with giving him EVERYTHING he needs and wants, but now I believe it's my job as his parent to do what's best for ALL of us, while lovingly guiding him through it. And, like Dr. Gordon's book says, having co-slept with him and been an AP parent, we have basically raised him to be able to handle something like this. This is what I am thinking in my head when he's fussing and trying to get into my shirt at 1am!

Also, something I think is really helpful (but hard in the moment) is being calm and confident. No mother truly feels this when her baby is upset, but last night, I really tried hard to keep my wits and be a rock for him - talking the same, massaging the same, kissing his little head the same - not getting all anxious and worked up myself. I think that helped him to know that everything was indeed okay - if mama's okay, then it must be okay.

Another little thing that worked was me whispering to him. I started out singing, then humming some of our favorite soothing tunes and then I started whispering the words because I thought the singing might be too loud. Something about the whispering really seemed to calm (or intrigue) him. When I could tell that he was starting to roll over and try to put himself to sleep, I slowly trailed off so that it was silent.

I'm sort of dreading tonight because I'm worried about a scenario in which DS doesn't wake up before the window and then he really does go a long time without milk. I'm hoping that we paved the way last night and tonight's fussing and wakefulness will be less because of that. One good thing with being through a full night of it is that DS knows that the "milkies" are not totally gone. He at least knows that they return when the sun comes up and are still "all you can eat." So hopefully tonight he will remember that and be more okay with it.

I will definitely keep posting to let you know where we are after tonight.







Poor DH is so tired today - he's never up like that in the middle of the night - especially for 1.5 hours!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TonyaW* 
Well, I tried this one night with my son and decided to stop. My son was waking hourly a couple weeks ago and now is down to every 2 hours. We actually had a 6 hour stretch of sleep a couple of nights ago, unless I just don't remember waking, and I thought I was glad I didn't continue with trying to night wean my 14 mo old son. But since that one night we are back to every 2 hours and then in the early morning hours of 4am on he wakes hourly. So I am considering the night weaning thing again. However I don't know if my son is ready. The night we tried he cried for 30 minutes and begged, begged, begged to nurse saying, "shaw, shaw, shaw over and over which I don't know what it means but he says it when he wants to nurse and pulling my shirt up and crawling on me and straddling me. I felt so horrible! Then he stopped and just played in bed for an hour and I broke down and finally nursed him to sleep. I know I didn't do my part but I read something a couple of days later that made me feel like I shouldn't have done it. Now I don't remember what.

Anyway my son is underweight in the negative 5th percentile and my ped suggested that it was becasue he is nursing all night long and not eating enough solids in the daytime because he isn't hungry enough. Does anyone know if this is true and have a similar experience? I know waking too often can result in growth hormones being low too. If this is a strong possibility then night weaning will become a priority! I just feel so bad when he cries and begs and so exhausted when I can't sleep in the middle of the night!









I don't know anything about weight linked to nursing at night. Actually, I would've thought it worked the other way - babies who didn't nurse through the night were smaller, but that just goes to show what I know!









I'm not sure if you have a helpful DP, but having someone else there would surely make it easier on you when your DS begs for milk. I hope you're able to get that kind of support if night weaning is the direction you want to go.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I did it when my daughter was 2 and it was extraordinarily easy. But she was 2.


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## liliaceae (May 31, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TonyaW* 
Anyway my son is underweight in the negative 5th percentile and my ped suggested that it was becasue he is nursing all night long and not eating enough solids in the daytime because he isn't hungry enough. Does anyone know if this is true and have a similar experience? I know waking too often can result in growth hormones being low too. If this is a strong possibility then night weaning will become a priority! I just feel so bad when he cries and begs and so exhausted when I can't sleep in the middle of the night!









I'm just lurking here cause I've been thinking about nightweaning, but I wanted to suggest that you ask this question in the breastfeeding forum, the ladies there are very knowledgeable about this kind of thing.


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## SublimeBirthGirl (Sep 9, 2005)

It would've been a hideous failure for either of mine at 13 months. Worked like a charm on my 1st at 19 months though.


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

NIGHT TWO! - Wow, DH and I can't believe it. The first time DS woke up last night, it only took him FIVE minutes to go back to sleep! And the second time he woke up, it only took abut THREE minutes!!

Okay, some details... DS fell asleep in the car on the way home from a friend's house, so when we transfered him to the bed, I nursed him (around 9:30pm). He woke up again around 10:20pm and I nursed him. So, like the night before, I knew he was pretty tanked up - although he didn't really eat much dinner that night, so I was a little worried about that. Anyway... DS woke up at 12:20am again and he was upset for about 30 seconds or a minute and then he calmed with singing and massaging and just rolled over and went back to sleep! Then, he woke up again around 3am. Same thing - upset for about 30 seconds then rolled over and was out!! Then things got a little tougher - he woke up around 4am and had a hard time getting back to sleep. He would fuss, then calm down and fall asleep for a few minutes, then wake up again, fuss, calm down, etc. It took about 30 minutes or so for him to fully go back to sleep. And what a cute guy - I think he just wanted to snuggle with me (even if he couldn't have milk) because he finally fell asleep in my arms all snuggled up to me. This was tough because I wondered if he was hungry since his last feeding had been about 5 or 6 hours earlier, but I knew that him getting back to sleep was crucial. He woke up again around 5:45am and I praised him and nursed him and he went back to sleep until 6:45am.

It really is amazing how fast he "got" the idea of no milk and went back to sleep (especially those first two times). DH and I are thrilled that it seems to be going over so well. I guess one of these nights DS will just stop waking up at those times since there's no reason to?

This waking pattern of 12:20am and 3 or 4am keeps justifying this process to me because even though they're just two wakings, they have made it so that I have not gotten more than 3 hours sleep at a time for such a long time. I am really happy that we are doing this and DS seems to really be ready to grasp it. He is his same normal happy self when he wakes up for good in the am and I even talk to him about how the milkies went night night and then woke up in the morning and he looks at me like he gets it or at least that he knows something is different with the milkies. Also, for me, last night was so much easier because I knew DS knew that the milkies weren't gone for good.

Of course, we're not out of the woods yet, but if you're one of the people considering night weaning your DC, I think something to consider is how easy it is to soothe them when they're upset - how well do they respond to it? If they are fairly easy to calm, then I imagine it would be a lot easier then if they are not easily calmed.

Also, a few pp's had said that this worked better for them when their DCs were older (two, I think) and that makes sense, but I would also argue that doing it a bit earlier could possibly be easier (depending on your DC). Right now, although my DS can communicate with me, he can't try to bargain or talk his way out this. When they are older, although you can definitely reason with them more, they are also able to reason with you (which might make it a bit tougher, IMO). Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that earlier is better, but it's just something to think about.

That's all for now! I'd love to hear thoughts from those who have BTDT (and those who haven't)


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## Natalie143 (May 14, 2007)

thanks so much for posting your progress. i like that you write here everynight to explain what happened. My little one isn't a great sleeper and i dont think we're ready to stop co-sleeping.. i'm gonna keep a watch on this thread to see your progress.. if its good then ill start this with my boy(he'll be 13 mths by then)


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Natalie143* 
thanks so much for posting your progress. i like that you write here everynight to explain what happened. My little one isn't a great sleeper and i dont think we're ready to stop co-sleeping.. i'm gonna keep a watch on this thread to see your progress.. if its good then ill start this with my boy(he'll be 13 mths by then)

Hi! Just wanted to let you know that we're still co-sleeping throughout this and plan to continue. And, Dr. Gordon's plan is for people who co-sleep, so that's part of the whole thing. For me, I wouldn't feel comfortable night weaning and stopping co-sleeping. I still love snuggling and feeling his little feet at night - it's just the waking up every three hours that I don't love!


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## Natalie143 (May 14, 2007)

exactly thats why i want to know if this particular plan works because it includes cosleeping!!







how was last night?


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

NIGHT THREE! I'll try to tell what I remember of it...

Again, DS is not eating very many solids these past couple of days, so I am eager to nurse him as much as possible before we tuck in for the night. Last night, he woke up about three times before 11pm. I could tell something was off because it was like he just couldn't get comfortable... ah yes, I suspect teething (the finger in the mouth is usually a tell-tale sign for us). And, DS usually has one or two nights of bad sleep with teething, but not a big run, so we're hoping this doesn't last.

Anyway, the third time DS woke up before we went to bed, I didn't nurse him because he had literally just nursed both sides about five minutes before that. I started to massage him and he immediately rolled over and put himself to sleep! I think he is totally on board with that whole idea, which I'm elated about!!

Then, it started... he woke up last night about every hour or hour and a half. :yawning: That part sucked - he never does that, but what was amazing was that he kept putting himself back to sleep and didn't nurse until 5:45am. And, he barely even fussed - never a real true cry. He just kept trying to roll over to escape the teething pain. I would massage him to help him fall back asleep again, but I was so tired that I couldn't even sing and sadly for my ego, he didn't seem to miss it! I think the singing/humming is a great tool for when he's crying - to distract him from that - but it doesn't seem necessary when he's just trying to go back to sleep. DS never once tried to nurse and once he put himself back to sleep around 4:45am, when he woke up at 5:45am, I nursed him. He was on the boob FOREVER (for him) and nursed both sides. When he finally pulled off (with a little nudging from me), he spit up a huge amount of milk and then easily fell back to sleep. I think what happened was that when he finally did nurse, he was comfort nursing and he got way too much milk (the fact that I probably had a ton of milk in there from not nursing all night probably didn't help).

I have to say that even though him waking so often was brutal, I am so happy that we had started this because if we had not, he probably would have been waking AND nursing every hour and that might've set me over the edge! I still feel good about where we're at with night-weaning and I'm hoping that tonight has less disruptions.







DH reminded me that at our last visit, Dr. Gordon said that rarely will there be a 10-day window in which there isn't a cold, teething, milestone, digestive issue or some other thing that gets in the way of this process, so having a few "lost" nights are to be expected.

Another thing that's been happening is that DS's napping has been getting so much easier. Today, I just nursed him down and after I knew he was asleep, I pulled my nipple out of his mouth. He did the searching for the nipple face and before I could even decide to give it back to him or not, he closed his mouth and settled. I think that is due to the night weaning and DS knowing that it's okay if the milky isn't there.

I know there's another thread going on right now with another mom who is doing this process and she had talked about two things that I thought were interesting. First, she had asked if Dr. Gordon's plan was harsher than the other ones. I have not read a lot about other plans, but my feeling is this - the plan isn't what determines how much crying there will be (unless you're doing CIO, obviously) - it's your DC's ability to be soothed that determines it. Regardless of which plan you use, the bottom line is still that you're telling your DC that they can't nurse in the middle of the night when they're sleepy and just want to nurse and fall back asleep. IMO, it's all about how easily comforted they are and how easily they adjust to being told "No."

Secondly, I think she (or another poster) raised the question about whether or not her DH should be doing the soothing and/or should she remove herself from the situation totally. Again, I think it depends on your DC. If they are not easily soothed and crying for a long time (which it sounded like was happening in the case I'm talking about), then maybe just having the dad there might be the way to go. For us, I had originally thought that DH would be picking up a lot of the slack because I thought DS would keep trying to get into my shirt, but quite the opposite has happened. He still seems to want to be soothed by me and to be cuddled by me. He will roll over to DH, but he usually comes back to me and then both DH and I rub him. For me, I think it would blow DS's mind if I were not there since I've been there every night since he was born. In our experience, the less we have been changing, the better. The only thing that is different is milkies are sleeping at night and that's it.

So, I am sort of looking at last night as a wash - no gain, no loss. Although I guess you could call DS being okay with no milkies all night a gain. DS took a short nap today (1 hour) even though he barely slept last night (again, I think teething is the culprit), so I am curious to see what tonight brings.

Again, I'd love to hear any thoughts or insight.


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## mom2tatum (Mar 14, 2007)

Thank you for continuing to post your up dates. I don't have time to write too much but I am getting a lot out of what your posting, we are in the middle of the same plan.


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## lollie2357 (Feb 18, 2008)

I'm very glad to read this thread. I haven't heard of Dr. Gordon, but I'm looking for it now...

I nurse my little one 3-4 times a night, but the problem for me is that I fall asleep in a funny position and wake up with an achy back. I would really love even four or five hours of uninterrupted sleep. My husband usually sleeps through it all so he may not be crazy about trying this!

My DD is only 8 months old, is it too early to try this?


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wilson* 
I'm very glad to read this thread. I haven't heard of Dr. Gordon, but I'm looking for it now...

I nurse my little one 3-4 times a night, but the problem for me is that I fall asleep in a funny position and wake up with an achy back. I would really love even four or five hours of uninterrupted sleep. My husband usually sleeps through it all so he may not be crazy about trying this!

My DD is only 8 months old, is it too early to try this?

I only have a quick sec, so I will give more info about night 4 later, but I just wanted to say that according to Dr. Gordon, the earliest you should do this is 12 months, so yes, I think 8 months is too young. I totally understand about the achy back though - that's so tough


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

NIGHT FOUR! So, DS is definitely teething in a major way right now. He has a fever, constantly has his finger in his mouth, swollen upper gums, can't get comfortable while "sleeping" and is not interested in solids right now. This all makes me conflicted about the whole night-weaning thing, but like Dr. Gordon told us, it's going to be hard to find a 10-day period in which something isn't going on. Our take on it last night was to keep up with the night-weaning plan unless DS really needed it or was upset. The most important thing is that DS healthy and sleeping.

DS woke up about 4 or 5 times before 11pm last night, so he was pretty tanked up for the night. But he just could not get comfortable or stay asleep for very long - not to mention that he only took an hour nap during the day.

But, after 11-ish when he woke up, I didn't offer the breast and he didn't seem to care (or try to get in my shirt). He was fine with just being massaged (no singing again!). He didn't cry, just fussed while trying to get comfortable. Every time I looked at him, his eyes were closed, so I think he was barely even waking up (which gives me high hopes for when he's able to sleep again). He woke up about ever 2 hours or so. I fed him from one side around 5:30am and I held off on the other side until around 6am, but he just couldn't get back to sleep, so I offered it to him and he ate again and then rolled over and barfed again like the morning before! He then fell asleep until 6:45am. I'm not totally sure what to make of this, but I think it has something to do with my high milk supply in the AM and DS being on the breast longer with some comfort nursing for the teeth and therefore getting a lot more milk. Also, with the fever, I think eating too much is not a good thing, so that could be part of it. Regardless of why, it wasn't happening the first two days (before teething kicked in), so I'm not really concerned about it.

So, that's where we're at. Again, seems like a bit of a wash last night, but technically speaking, DS does seem to be night-weaned. It's just that he's still waking for other reasons. I really can't believe that he's totally cool with no milk all night, but he is!


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## terpgirl23 (Oct 30, 2007)

Can I just tell you, you are my HERO!!!!!! I had joined this forum awhile ago, but am on another, local one, so I had not been paying much attention to this one. But as of late, we have been going through some sleep struggles with our 13-month old, too and I thought it would be a good idea to broden my circle a bit to see what other mommas are doing.

And low and behold, your posting! This sounds cheesy, but I feel we are kindered spirits in terms of our night-time issues. All of the things that you have described in relation to your situation parallel mine in an almost freaky way. So, thank you so much for not only starting this thread, but continuing to post updates. I really appreciate you "leading the way" on this.

I am going to be doing this with my DD probably starting tonight or tomorrow. The biggest issue for us is that we currently don't co-sleep and in my mind, I think that closer you are to your baby for comforting them during this time, the better (right?). So, that means we have to physically make some changes to our room to make this happen.

But again, thanks for sharing and inspiring. I hope to be able to report back the same.


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *terpgirl23* 
Can I just tell you, you are my HERO!!!!!! I had joined this forum awhile ago, but am on another, local one, so I had not been paying much attention to this one. But as of late, we have been going through some sleep struggles with our 13-month old, too and I thought it would be a good idea to broden my circle a bit to see what other mommas are doing.

And low and behold, your posting! This sounds cheesy, but I feel we are kindered spirits in terms of our night-time issues. All of the things that you have described in relation to your situation parallel mine in an almost freaky way. So, thank you so much for not only starting this thread, but continuing to post updates. I really appreciate you "leading the way" on this.

I am going to be doing this with my DD probably starting tonight or tomorrow. The biggest issue for us is that we currently don't co-sleep and in my mind, I think that closer you are to your baby for comforting them during this time, the better (right?). So, that means we have to physically make some changes to our room to make this happen.

But again, thanks for sharing and inspiring. I hope to be able to report back the same.

Hi! Thanks for your kind words







It's good to know that my postings are actually helping someone and not just cluttering the web!

I'm interested to hear how things go for you too. Please keep me updated and good luck!







BTW - I'm going to post about night 5 below...


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

NIGHT FIVE!! Oh wait, before that, Dr. Gordon called to check in on us and I finally got to ask him my burning questions...

I told him about the teething/fever and said that DS seemed to be taking to the night weaning fine, but was waking up a ton for other reasons. Dr. Gordon said that it would be better if we could stick with it, but that if we felt we couldn't (or DS shouldn't), then we could always stop and restart later. But he did emphasize that we should try to keep at it since he's been so responsive.

I also asked if the idea was just that when there's no milkies at night anymore, they just stop waking up for them and he responded and said yes, that it's all about changing patterns, which I thought was an interesting way to put it since yes, it does feel that this waking (pre night weaning) was just a pattern that needed some tweaking, not really a "need."

Then I asked Dr. Gordon about the barfing in the AM and he said it was totally normal and due to my large morning milk supply and my DS gorging himself. He said it might happen for a few more days, but it would stop soon.

Lastly, I asked him about the window before 11pm and if our DS will just slowly stop waking then too or will we need to wean him off of that too at some point. Dr. Gordon said that it takes about a month, but DS will push his non-waking backwards so that he is eventually not waking at all. That sounded great to me!

Okay, onto night 5... Honestly, I can barely remember as far as last night... oh wait, yes, how could I forget? DS was like a barnacle on me all day yesterday (the teething and fever, I think) and nursed like CRAZY all day. I was worried that we would have to forgo the night weaning last night because he'd need my nipple in his mouth for comfort. And, he woke up about 10 times before we got to bed (around 10:30pm), so I was a little out of my mind already. But, when DS woke up after we came to bed, I didn't nurse him and he didn't try (as usual) which shocked me since he'd had my nipple in his mouth all day. Again, he just tried to get comfortable to fall asleep again. So, we had a pretty good night in that respect. He still hasn't had milkies in the middle of the night since we started last Friday. Even though he's waking a ton, he did give me a little 3 hour stretch that was nice. He woke up at 4:30am and I rubbed him to sleep (we're talking about 15 seconds here) and then he woke up again at 5:45am and I nursed him on one side only and then he fell back asleep and slept until 7:30am. I nursed him on the other side when he woke up and that way there was no barfing - yay!

This whole thing is so bizarre to me because we're on night five and I still can't get a handle for how this is going to really work since DS is waking up so freakin' much because of unrelated issues!! I can't wait until we're back on an even keel so I can know how the night weaning will be integrated. But, like I say every time, I still think it's a success since he's okay with no milkies during the night. I guess it feels so strange too because I should feel this huge sense of relief and rest, but I don't because I'm waking up even more than usual! But, I am happy that my boobs at least get to sleep all night


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## terpgirl23 (Oct 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happy2bamama* 
NIGHT FIVE!! Oh wait, before that, Dr. Gordon called to check in on us and I finally got to ask him my burning questions...

I told him about the teething/fever and said that DS seemed to be taking to the night weaning fine, but was waking up a ton for other reasons. Dr. Gordon said that it would be better if we could stick with it, but that if we felt we couldn't (or DS shouldn't), then we could always stop and restart later. But he did emphasize that we should try to keep at it since he's been so responsive.

I also asked if the idea was just that when there's no milkies at night anymore, they just stop waking up for them and he responded and said yes, that it's all about changing patterns, which I thought was an interesting way to put it since yes, it does feel that this waking (pre night weaning) was just a pattern that needed some tweaking, not really a "need."


Thanks again for sharing. I totally agree with this - that's it's all about conditioning. I really don't think my babe NEEDS to eat at night so much as she is used to (and has been conditioned) to do so. I honestly, mostly blame myself for this. I am sort of a "one-trick pony" in the sense that when she needs comfort, I immediately offer the breast. Hey, it works - why mess with it? But really, I think this experience is going to be about both of us learningl her not to need to nurse to find comfort and me, as a momma, to discover other ways I can sooth my baby.

Silly question here - where is Dr. Gordon's office located? What state are you in?

Thanks again for sharing. Such an inspiration.


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## Keirasmommy (Jan 17, 2008)

What teeth is your LO working on? Just curious b/c my DD is working on her two upper first year molars. And she's up a ton. I also feel like there is never a time when something isn't going on (teething, developmental milestone, cold), and she is like I was - slow to get teeth and so only has 7 at 17 months. Others have told me it's easier when they have all their teeth, but for my DD it probably won't happen until she's 2.5. So, just curious what your thoughts are as your LO is going through nightweaning while teething - do you think it will still work? - and are you concerned for the future when he gets more teeth and how it will affect his sleep? Just curioius, not trying to question your judgement, I'm trying to figure out the best time for me to nightwean my DD as the it's just getting to be too much. I appreciate your advice!


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *terpgirl23* 
Thanks again for sharing. I totally agree with this - that's it's all about conditioning. I really don't think my babe NEEDS to eat at night so much as she is used to (and has been conditioned) to do so. I honestly, mostly blame myself for this. I am sort of a "one-trick pony" in the sense that when she needs comfort, I immediately offer the breast. Hey, it works - why mess with it? But really, I think this experience is going to be about both of us learningl her not to need to nurse to find comfort and me, as a momma, to discover other ways I can sooth my baby.

Silly question here - where is Dr. Gordon's office located? What state are you in?

Thanks again for sharing. Such an inspiration.

Hi again! Please do not beat up on yourself or "blame" yourself for "conditioning" your babe. You did the natural thing - offer the breast when that's what the baby wanted. No harm in that. I think it's awesome that you (and I!) have offered the breast to our babes at night this long.









I found it interesting to see how DS was with soothing other than from the breast. I had a feeling he'd take to it well because he was never one of those babies that you have to pry off the nipple (maybe once or twice) and most of the time when he nurses to sleep, he'll pull off the nipple, roll over and "tuck in" (roll on his stomach) and fall asleep. My thought was, I won't know how he'll take to it unless I try and I can always back out whenever I want if I feel like I need to.

BTW - Dr. Gordon is in Southern California.









Good luck to you in whatever you decide - can't wait to hear about it!


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

NIGHT SIX!! Again, DS barely took a nap yesterday and after getting him to bed, he woke up about 8 times before we finally went to bed. I felt like I was going to lose my mind since he'd been on me ALL day and I was getting no break whatsoever. But poor guy - his top gums are so swelled up and ready to pop. I also wonder if he's cutting a bunch at a time because his first two teeth never made him like this.

Anyhoo... after we came to bed, he did a decent stretch and woke up around 2am. This was the first time he tried for the boob - just rolling over and opening his mouth, not actually tugging at my shirt. I waited to see if this was "for real" or not and he was upset for about 10 seconds and then settled after I massaged him. Then he woke up around 4:30am and tried for the boob in the same way and again, I waited to see what happened and this time he fussed for about 30 seconds. I was so torn with what to do because at this point, I remembered that he'd been a little dehydrated and so I wanted to nurse him to give him the fluids, but I also didn't want him to associate fussing with getting milkies at night. I wanted him to put himself to sleep again - even if for two minutes - so that when he woke up, I could then nurse him without the fussing connection. After those 30 seconds, he did settle and fall asleep again, but woke up 10 minutes later, which I was happy about because then I could nurse him. He fed on one side (didn't barf!) and fell asleep again until 7:15am.

I'm hoping tonight's better (but not getting my hopes up). DS didn't have a fever all day. He only took a 45 minute nap, but he fell asleep in a lot more normal way tonight, so I'm hoping that's a sign of things returning to "normal."

I have to say, there is this tiny little thing in the back of my head wondering if the night weaning is causing any of this disruption, but I feel like he'd be letting us know at night if he really needed (or even REALLY wanted) milk. It's not like he's upset and begging for it - when it's not available in 30 seconds or less, he goes back to sleep. I think this is all related to the crazy teething going on, but I can't help but be thinking about the night weaning. I guess I'll know once these teeth pop through.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Keirasmommy* 
What teeth is your LO working on? Just curious b/c my DD is working on her two upper first year molars. And she's up a ton. I also feel like there is never a time when something isn't going on (teething, developmental milestone, cold), and she is like I was - slow to get teeth and so only has 7 at 17 months. Others have told me it's easier when they have all their teeth, but for my DD it probably won't happen until she's 2.5. So, just curious what your thoughts are as your LO is going through nightweaning while teething - do you think it will still work? - and are you concerned for the future when he gets more teeth and how it will affect his sleep? Just curioius, not trying to question your judgement, I'm trying to figure out the best time for me to nightwean my DD as the it's just getting to be too much. I appreciate your advice!

No worries about the teething question! In fact, that was/is one of my biggest concerns with this. DS only has two teeth (yes, only two!) - the middle bottom ones, so we have a loooooooong way to go. I think he's currently working on his top middle teeth, but who knows there could be a whole bunch more - maybe he's making up for lost time?

For what it's worth, here's my take on the teething and night weaning - yes, they're essentially always teething (or have a cold, or milestone, like you said) and some nights are bad (like my last 3) and some are okay. For me, I would rather get some decent sleep (read: night wean) on those nights that teething isn't disturbing us so much and then have to "give in" and nurse on those few terrible nights and start the process over again than not night wean at all because I'm worried about what to do on those few terrible nights. I don't feel like I have lost my soothing tool because A. I now know DS can be soothed by something other than my breast and B. I can always change my mind and give him my breast should he really need it during those times. I only know this now because we've tried it with my DS and he's handling it really well, so even if we have to stop and start again, I think he'll get it again really quickly. And since DS is having the worst teething nights of his life right now, but he's ok with no nursing at night, maybe it won't even be an issue for us (but from what I hear about molars, that might not be the case)! Even though I have to wake up and pat DS when he's been waking up these past nights, it only takes a few minutes - if that - which for me, is easier than nursing. I also think if he was night nursing right now he'd would probably be latched for quite a while - making me the human pacifier - so I'm glad to have reprieve from that as long as DS is okay with it too. I am not expecting that night weaning will stop all night wakings. The last six nights have taught me that! But, I'm hoping to just have it be better - not all the time - but just some of the time. Any extra sleep I can get is a good thing. I'm not thinking this is going to be the magic key to STTN, but it's a step in the right direction.









BTW - I loooooooooooooove not having to change a diaper in the middle of the night. That is the best!!

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. I hope you find something that works for you and your babe







I'd love to hear how it goes if you decide to do it.


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## ktmama (Jan 21, 2004)

Mama, you are doing a great service to many parents with your Night Weaning Journal!

We used the same method when dd2 was 15 months with mixed results. So, I want to address this:
_DH and I are thrilled that it seems to be going over so well. I guess one of these nights DS will just stop waking up at those times since there's no reason to?_

My dd2 was very wakeful and unhappy during our night weaning experience until I figured out that we were actually waking her up at night! When I realized this, I moved her bed out into the hall (with a little nest built around her) since we were in a tiny two bedroom condo, and she immediately started sleeping through the night - like six and seven hour stretches! So, sometimes it's the nursing, sometimes it's those pesky parents!







:


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ktmama* 
Mama, you are doing a great service to many parents with your Night Weaning Journal!

We used the same method when dd2 was 15 months with mixed results. So, I want to address this:
_DH and I are thrilled that it seems to be going over so well. I guess one of these nights DS will just stop waking up at those times since there's no reason to?_

My dd2 was very wakeful and unhappy during our night weaning experience until I figured out that we were actually waking her up at night! When I realized this, I moved her bed out into the hall (with a little nest built around her) since we were in a tiny two bedroom condo, and she immediately started sleeping through the night - like six and seven hour stretches! So, sometimes it's the nursing, sometimes it's those pesky parents!







:

Wow, soooooo interesting. Food for thought. Thanks for sharing







So, what specifically about you guys was it that was waking her? Just moving around and bumping into you or what? What made you finally figure it out?

P.S. I love the little nest idea - I have this adorable visual in my head now!

P.S.S. Thanks for the kind words about my "journal" of sorts.







It's hard to know if it's really helping anyone but myself, but my intention is that others can learn from our mistakes and/or successes, so it's good to know that at least a few people are getting something from it


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## Keirasmommy (Jan 17, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happy2bamama* 

For what it's worth, here's my take on the teething and night weaning - yes, they're essentially always teething (or have a cold, or milestone, like you said) and some nights are bad (like my last 3) and some are okay. For me, I would rather get some decent sleep (read: night wean) on those nights that teething isn't disturbing us so much and then have to "give in" and nurse on those few terrible nights and start the process over again than not night wean at all because I'm worried about what to do on those few terrible nights. I don't feel like I have lost my soothing tool because A. I now know DS can be soothed by something other than my breast and B. I can always change my mind and give him my breast should he really need it during those times. I only know this now because we've tried it with my DS and he's handling it really well, so even if we have to stop and start again, I think he'll get it again really quickly. And since DS is having the worst teething nights of his life right now, but he's ok with no nursing at night, maybe it won't even be an issue for us (but from what I hear about molars, that might not be the case)! Even though I have to wake up and pat DS when he's been waking up these past nights, it only takes a few minutes - if that - which for me, is easier than nursing. I also think if he was night nursing right now he'd would probably be latched for quite a while - making me the human pacifier - so I'm glad to have reprieve from that as long as DS is okay with it too. I am not expecting that night weaning will stop all night wakings. The last six nights have taught me that! But, I'm hoping to just have it be better - not all the time - but just some of the time. Any extra sleep I can get is a good thing. I'm not thinking this is going to be the magic key to STTN, but it's a step in the right direction.









Good luck with whatever you decide to do. I hope you find something that works for you and your babe







I'd love to hear how it goes if you decide to do it.

THanks for your honest advice. I like how you have thought it out. I think I am going to wait for these top two molars to break through and then start b/c I do think we need to make a change especially since we'd like to TTC#2 this spring/summer and I still have not had my pp AF. I like that you think you can still offer nursing on the bad nights and then hopefully go back to your regular routine. That is reassuring and makes sense. I just don't think I am up for doing it now while she is getting her molars b/c she is up literally every hour and I just don't have the energy reserves to put in a week to wait for change. I will keep you posted once we get under way - hopefully these molars come soon, b/c this momma is getting exhausted:yawning:


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Keirasmommy* 
THanks for your honest advice. I like how you have thought it out. I think I am going to wait for these top two molars to break through and then start b/c I do think we need to make a change especially since we'd like to TTC#2 this spring/summer and I still have not had my pp AF. I like that you think you can still offer nursing on the bad nights and then hopefully go back to your regular routine. That is reassuring and makes sense. I just don't think I am up for doing it now while she is getting her molars b/c she is up literally every hour and I just don't have the energy reserves to put in a week to wait for change. I will keep you posted once we get under way - hopefully these molars come soon, b/c this momma is getting exhausted:yawning:

I'm glad I could help! I don't blame you for wanting to wait until the molars are in to start. Even though DS is handling the night-weaning part really well, it's a lot to be doing that AND be dealing with teething. Everything feels out of sorts right now. I am really pretty stressed about how far we have to go with the teeth (not in terms of night weaning, but just in general). Every mom I talk to says the canines or the molars are the worst and we have ALL of those still to go, not to mention that just the top front ones are causing so much disruption right now, so I don't even want to think about what those other worse ones will be like - yikes. Good luck to you and your babe with the night-weaning (whenever you do start) and here's hoping to you getting some sleep soon


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

NIGHT SEVEN!! Finally, DS is not waking every hour - yay!! He gave us a glorious three hour stretch and woke up at 9:30pm. I nursed him and then when DH and I came to bed for good around 10:30pm, I thought for sure DS would wake up to nurse again - he always does - but he was sleeping so hard that he didn't. As I fell asleep, I felt funny about the fact that he wouldn't be all tanked up for the night. I figured I'd just see how it went and adjust accordingly if need be. DS woke up around 2am and he rolled over towards my boob and did the rooting/mouth thing. I patted him and he wasn't happy for about 15 seconds, but then rolled over and went back to sleep. I don't think his eyes even open during this. Then, he woke up at 4am and I felt like it was a little too early for me to nurse him, so when he tried, I did the same - patted him and again, he wasn't happy for about 15 seconds, but then fell back asleep until around 5:15am. I have to say that I felt conflicted since he hadn't nursed since 9:30pm the night before (and isn't doing many solids) and I knew he must be a little hungry, but he was able to be soothed and go back to sleep in no time. Of course, I nursed him around 5:15am and he nursed for a while and never really got fully back to sleep just with that one side (he must've been hungry!) so I gave him the other side and he fell asleep after that one (although it took longer than usual - he kept rolling on and off of the boob) until around 7:15am.

It was such a treat to have him sleep longer. He does seem to be trying for the milkies a little more than he was those first 5 nights, but he's going back to sleep really easily without them, so I'm comfortable with how it's going. Maybe now that he's not waking every hour we'll get to see how this is going to pan out a little more. Maybe tonight's the night he'll "forget" to wake up one of those times during the night!

Oh and by the way, even though we're following Dr. Gordon's plan, we're not changing the ways we're comforting him every three days. We aren't tapering it off or anything. We just keep doing what it takes to keep him happy and going back to sleep and if that should keep up for more than a few weeks, then maybe we'll consider doing a little less. And actually, it's sort of happened naturally because of those nights when I was too tired to sing or when I would fall asleep massaging DS.


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## mom2tatum (Mar 14, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happy2bamama* 

Oh and by the way, even though we're following Dr. Gordon's plan, we're not changing the ways we're comforting him every three days. We aren't tapering it off or anything. We just keep doing what it takes to keep him happy and going back to sleep and if that should keep up for more than a few weeks, then maybe we'll consider doing a little less. And actually, it's sort of happened naturally because of those nights when I was too tired to sing or when I would fall asleep massaging DS.

We are doing the same as well! Its like his plan was our outline, a general guide to help us feel like there was some sort of plan - but we've totally adapted it and made it work for us and what we think is working best for him. And its going wonderfully, totally different from your happenings, but nonetheless wonderful. I finally feel like sleep for everyone is getting better and better everynight. We are on like night 10 I think, but I think I stopped counting once we got comfortable with our "plan", yk?

Keep it up...I love hearing. You and your ds are doing great!


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## anewmama (Feb 25, 2007)

My daughter is 10.2 months and even though may seem too young to wean, I feel we need to as I need sleep. DH and I are both very sick with bronchitis/pneumonia and I suspect that 9 months of broken sleep has not been without repercussion.

When my dd was 3-6, she never needed to nurse every hour. I nursed her to sleep at around 7:30-8 and put her in her crib. She would usually sleep until 1 but sometimes not. Then wake again around the 4 o'clock time. I usually nursed her and put her back into her crib. She was fine.

But when she was strong enough to move a sheet from her face, we started co-sleeping with her. (though the crib in in our bedroom). And things went down hill from then I think. Now she wakes frequently, I try not to bother DH so I nurse her as soon as I can. She nurses all the time. And I think I am inadvertently training her TO wake up and TO need to nurse.

So in the interest of getting better, we are starting something similar. I haven't read Gordon's plan but will when I have time. But from 12-4 last night, no nursing. She woke and I was always able to comfort her back to sleep. I don't even think she knew she was awake some of the times. Once she fell back asleep draped over me and on her knees.

We are just going to give all of us that one block of time.

My dd is in very low weight and NOT into solids much at all. Doc is concerned about he place on the chart, so I always nursed whenever because of her weight issue.

But we have to try this... we need to get better. We are sick zombies. Any advice or encouragement is going to be much needed.


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom2tatum* 
We are doing the same as well! Its like his plan was our outline, a general guide to help us feel like there was some sort of plan - but we've totally adapted it and made it work for us and what we think is working best for him. And its going wonderfully, totally different from your happenings, but nonetheless wonderful. I finally feel like sleep for everyone is getting better and better everynight. We are on like night 10 I think, but I think I stopped counting once we got comfortable with our "plan", yk?

Keep it up...I love hearing. You and your ds are doing great!

Hi and thanks for the post! I'd love to hear more about how things are going with you guys... how is your DS handling no milk? Does he fuss? Has he stopped waking for some or all of the feedings? Did he ever barf after gorging in the am?! I am so happy to hear that things are going wonderfully and sleep is getting better for all - keep up the good work!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *anewmama* 
My daughter is 10.2 months and even though may seem too young to wean, I feel we need to as I need sleep. DH and I are both very sick with bronchitis/pneumonia and I suspect that 9 months of broken sleep has not been without repercussion.

When my dd was 3-6, she never needed to nurse every hour. I nursed her to sleep at around 7:30-8 and put her in her crib. She would usually sleep until 1 but sometimes not. Then wake again around the 4 o'clock time. I usually nursed her and put her back into her crib. She was fine.

But when she was strong enough to move a sheet from her face, we started co-sleeping with her. (though the crib in in our bedroom). And things went down hill from then I think. Now she wakes frequently, I try not to bother DH so I nurse her as soon as I can. She nurses all the time. And I think I am inadvertently training her TO wake up and TO need to nurse.

So in the interest of getting better, we are starting something similar. I haven't read Gordon's plan but will when I have time. But from 12-4 last night, no nursing. She woke and I was always able to comfort her back to sleep. I don't even think she knew she was awake some of the times. Once she fell back asleep draped over me and on her knees.

We are just going to give all of us that one block of time.

My dd is in very low weight and NOT into solids much at all. Doc is concerned about he place on the chart, so I always nursed whenever because of her weight issue.

But we have to try this... we need to get better. We are sick zombies. Any advice or encouragement is going to be much needed.

Hello! I don't blame you at all for needing your rest and your health back. I don't think I fully realized what a zombie state I was in until I got sick also. It's as if all those months of rotten sleep come crashing down on you when you're physically sick like that. For me, it was the shove I needed to do this.

It sounds like things went well for you last night - that's awesome! I think being able to comfort them back to sleep ANY way without the boob and without much crying is a success. Also, I can so understand what you mean when you said that you are inadvertently training her TO wake up and TO need to nurse, although I'm all for feeding on demand (just not at night anymore!). I have always been a huge fan of co-sleeping, but recently (since I've realized my zombie-ness), I see that it has - I don't want to say "flaws," but perhaps consequences (I need a better, more positive word here). I still think it's wonderful, I love to snuggle DS and co-sleeping makes babies feels secure and all of that warm fuzzy stuff, but IME, it doesn't make for a super restful night's sleep! I know there are people out there who co-sleep and are rested, but I've just never met any of them (except for Alegna, of course - though I've never actually met her)!!









About your DD being low in weight - it's so interesting because a pp said the complete opposite - that she had heard that babies that wake and nurse a lot at night are releasing certain hormones that make it hard for them to gain weight (or something along those lines), so it seems that either way - nursing a lot at night or not nursing at all - causes worry about low weight. Who knows, if the above is true, maybe not nursing at night will actually help your DD to gain weight? I don't know if your DD will be like my DS, but he was not into solids at all until around 11-12 months and even then, "into" solids means a few bites here and there - more like nibbling or sampling, not the scarfing that I see other babies do! I bet your DD will gradually start getting more interested in solids - especially if she's not nursing at night. If she seems to be happy and healthy with going for that stretch at night without milk, it would seem that it's all good, right?

Good luck to you and I hope you guys fell better and get some sleep.


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## mom2tatum (Mar 14, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *anewmama* 

My dd is in very low weight and NOT into solids much at all. Doc is concerned about he place on the chart, so I always nursed whenever because of her weight issue.

But we have to try this... we need to get better. We are sick zombies. Any advice or encouragement is going to be much needed.

Ya know, its interesting, because I have had alot of the same issues with my son. He 's also always been very tiny (weight, not height). Who knows if its just normal for him or if maybe there is a connection between nursing often in the night (because here is not the first place I have heard that mentioned before). Also hadn't been into solids too much until I started putting the limits on nursing at night. And, I am also recently away from him for five hours everyday now for work(dh got laid off so he is with ds AND HE EATS!) Hmmm.

So anyway, here's what we did for the sick stuff, because I especially was getting viruses back to back and feeling crappy all the time. Started seeing the chiropractor again consisently...all three of us. Haven't been sick since, about 6 mos ago. So that helped. Started taking more cod liver oil, probiotics, and extra iron supplement in addition to my multi. This all helped the immunity thing as well as my energy. And the clo and prob for ds too. Ok, then, when we were ready, we started the sleep plan (very modified). For us, we needed to almost completely take me out of the picture or ds was going bizerko by me telling him no nursies. So, him and dh cosleep in our extra bedroom, one on mattress, one on floor - ds surprisinly chooses the floor very adamantly sometimes according to dh. ??? And, he only brings ds in to me if he is losing it for more than an hour. But, that really has only happened one time, and I think it's either teething fever or maybe a real sickness w/fever...??? So, otherwise, its worked for us. But, consider going about it in the most gentle way possible since yours is still so young. I considered doing this since ds was about 10 mos and have ultimately waited this long because I really didn't feel he was ready. And, still, he ISN'T ready for me to help him back to sleep without nursing, he just allows dh to it. So, just trust your gut - I am sure you'll know when he really "needs" it or not and if he's allowing you to comfort him back to sleep other ways...wow...thats just amazing. Roll with that, regardless of him being a month too young, yk? IMO. Just use your instincts. I know its hard not to get adequate sleep for so long. I am finally starting to feel like a normal thinking person again...its been a while.


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

NIGHT EIGHT!! Well, I think I'll call it progress! DS woke up twice before we got to bed, which was great so I felt good about him eating before the window of sleep. And, he didn't wake up again when we came to bed - I think he is starting to sleep harder AND longer. He woke up again at 2:30am and tried for milk in his usual way - same thing, he fussed for as long as it took me to put my hand on him. I massaged him and told him that the milkies were night night. He rolled over and looked like he was asleep again, but then he woke up and sat up (he usually always sits up when he's really awake). I laid him down and rubbed him and kissed him again and he rolled over again, but then sat up 10 minutes later. This went on for about an hour and then he finally really fell asleep. Then, he didn't wake up until 5:30am, so I nursed him both sides (still no barfing!) and he fell asleep again until 6:45am. When he nurses in the morning now, it's hard for me to sleep through it (which I could usually do before) because he's on there for about 20 minutes or so, but it's fine since I know we get to go back to sleep for a bit.

So, even though it took longer than usual for him to go back to sleep when he woke up, he only woke up ONCE during the window, so that feels like a step in the right direction








DS seems to really like to wake around 2am, so hopefully we can phase that out. I have to say that even though I didn't get a big, long stretch last night, I do feel more rested in general, which is a nice change.


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## anewmama (Feb 25, 2007)

I think what I am doing more than anything is weaning myself. I am absolutely for whatever anyone wants to do regarding night nursing and co-sleeping. But I think that I have trained myself as much to nurse her even when she might not need it. Last night, she nursed last at 10:30 and then even though she woke a few times, she was very easily put back to sleep by my sitting up with her and patting her. She fell asleep on me and then I just rolled her onto the bed. By 4:15 this morning, when she woke, I fed her.

I wish though I had woken on my own and fed her before she cried. What I want to break pattern wise at night is that she cries and then gets fed. So this morning, she did get fed after crying but it was time to feed her I think. She went back to sleep easily after nursing briefly.

I really think the most difficult part of all of this is trying to sort out what the baby needs and what we think they need... I know for me personally, I trained myself to feed her before she even really asked to be fed. IT's just a hunch that this is what has happened and I feel confirmed by how relatively easy it's been to get her to go back to sleep with patting and rocking and other comfort.

But I am open. If she gets sick or has teeth coming in, I will not adhere to a rigid schedule. But I think my first response from now on in our little window will not be to nurse first. we will see...


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## anewmama (Feb 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happy2bamama* 
Also, I can so understand what you mean when you said that you are inadvertently training her TO wake up and TO need to nurse, although I'm all for feeding on demand (just not at night anymore!). I have always been a huge fan of co-sleeping, but recently (since I've realized my zombie-ness), I see that it has - I don't want to say "flaws," but perhaps consequences (I need a better, more positive word here). I still think it's wonderful, I love to snuggle DS and co-sleeping makes babies feels secure and all of that warm fuzzy stuff, but IME, it doesn't make for a super restful night's sleep! I know there are people out there who co-sleep and are rested, but I've just never met any of them (except for Alegna, of course - though I've never actually met her)!!









I appreciate how hard it might have been to find the right words to post some of this. I frankly feel the pressure to co-sleep and nurse on demand all night creates tremendous stress for many moms. I see it in the posts here. And I see me becoming one of those moms who feels she can't do it differently. I nurse on demand in the daytime. We have lovely nursing naps. I will not let those go or change that. But I need a whole fresh new approach to night time. And I respect whatever choices people make. I will not CIO. But I think I can find other ways to comfort her and help her sleep. If she ever can't be comforted, I will after a time, feed her. But I just can't nurse her at the slightest whimper anymore at night.

I hope this means my daughter might show more interest in food. Her repertoire is so limited. Anything green goes from her tray right over the edge to the dog. Every delicious concoction I come up with she rejects. Her only delight is vanilla yogurt and mandarins. I give her mandarins even though it's a bit early for citrus because she totally loves them. I spike the yogurt with oatmeal and flaxseed oil. And she eats freeze dried fruit. But this is more or less it. sometimes I can sneak in other stuff, but nothing she has taken a huge fancy to.


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *anewmama* 
I think what I am doing more than anything is weaning myself. I am absolutely for whatever anyone wants to do regarding night nursing and co-sleeping. But I think that I have trained myself as much to nurse her even when she might not need it. Last night, she nursed last at 10:30 and then even though she woke a few times, she was very easily put back to sleep by my sitting up with her and patting her. She fell asleep on me and then I just rolled her onto the bed. By 4:15 this morning, when she woke, I fed her.

I wish though I had woken on my own and fed her before she cried. What I want to break pattern wise at night is that she cries and then gets fed. So this morning, she did get fed after crying but it was time to feed her I think. She went back to sleep easily after nursing briefly.

I really think the most difficult part of all of this is trying to sort out what the baby needs and what we think they need... I know for me personally, I trained myself to feed her before she even really asked to be fed. IT's just a hunch that this is what has happened and I feel confirmed by how relatively easy it's been to get her to go back to sleep with patting and rocking and other comfort.

But I am open. If she gets sick or has teeth coming in, I will not adhere to a rigid schedule. But I think my first response from now on in our little window will not be to nurse first. we will see...

I totally know what you mean - it feels so strange to NOT just offer the boob immediately, but then it feels so awesome and empowering (IMO) to be able to soothe DS without it. I'm so happy that your DD is able to go back to sleep without the breast and without much crying. I think that's a prime situation.

Going through this (and deciding to) has made me shift some of my thoughts about parenting and babies needs vs. wants. I still feel that babies wants and needs are the same thing in that first year and am happy I could give DS whatever he needed. But, as he's older, more communicative and can understand more of what I tell him, I am realizing that I need to be setting some boundaries so that I don't go crazy! You're right, it is quite a shift going from doing everything your baby wants to learning how to say yes to some things, but not all. And, to not feel guilty about it.

On a similar note, I was complaining to my DS the other day that even the littlest tasks seem so hard to get done with DS around - like folding laundry, for example. I told him that I could just park myself and fold the laundry and let DS run around and play like he does, but there is something in me that feels guilty for not interacting with him 100% of the time. And, when I say it out loud, it sounds totally irrational - it's good for DS to not always be entertained by someone all day, but it's hard for me not to feel like a neglectful parent sometimes even if I'm just taking five minutes to get something done. Maybe that's just my personality. But, it's kinda like night weaning - I give DS so much during the day (all you can eat breastfeeding, a constant playmate, fun classes together, etc.) that I'm not going to feel guilty for wanting 7 hours to sleep at night! But, it's hard not to (for me, at least).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *anewmama* 
I appreciate how hard it might have been to find the right words to post some of this. I frankly feel the pressure to co-sleep and nurse on demand all night creates tremendous stress for many moms. I see it in the posts here. And I see me becoming one of those moms who feels she can't do it differently. I nurse on demand in the daytime. We have lovely nursing naps. I will not let those go or change that. But I need a whole fresh new approach to night time. And I respect whatever choices people make. I will not CIO. But I think I can find other ways to comfort her and help her sleep. If she ever can't be comforted, I will after a time, feed her. But I just can't nurse her at the slightest whimper anymore at night.

I hope this means my daughter might show more interest in food. Her repertoire is so limited. Anything green goes from her tray right over the edge to the dog. Every delicious concoction I come up with she rejects. Her only delight is vanilla yogurt and mandarins. I give her mandarins even though it's a bit early for citrus because she totally loves them. I spike the yogurt with oatmeal and flaxseed oil. And she eats freeze dried fruit. But this is more or less it. sometimes I can sneak in other stuff, but nothing she has taken a huge fancy to.

I also know what you mean about the posts here sometimes making these things more stressful. I love MDC and think it's an amazing resource, but yeah, sometimes I just have to log off for a while because it can be daunting to be reading about the MOST natural food, toys, sleeping situations, babywearing vs. strollers, etc. It's sometimes hard not to think of it as a measuring stick, like, if another mom has the energy to wake up three times a night to nurse and her baby is two, am I failing because I'm at the end of my rope and my DS is only 13 months? The answer is, of course, no!

I am there with ya about the solids too. My DS was really starting to get into solids about a month ago and then he has been on this hunger strike and way more into seeing what it feels like to smash and flick things onto the floor. And oh man it can be so irritating when you've come up with all these great foods for them and then they just dump them out. I have had to breathe very deeply a few times (more than a few times!) this week.

Thanks for posting - it seems like you and I are on the same page here.


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Just a quick question... DS has been sleeping longer and harder before we come to bed these past few days and if he doesn't naturally wake up when we come to bed, what are your thoughts about me waking him up to give him one big feed before bed in hopes of keeping him fuller longer (maybe this is considered a "dream feed")? If night weaning is causing him to sleep longer and harder (which is great!), I don't want to screw that up by waking him up, but I also don't want him to wake up super hungry in the middle of the night (although I know technically he can go all night without milk). Thoughts? TIA


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## ~Megan~ (Nov 7, 2002)

Unknowingly I've been doing this with ds for 5 months or so. He's 2.5 and still doesn't fall asleep on his own. He will cry for half an hour or more demanding to nurse. Occasionally we have a lucky night in which ds doesn't wake up and we don't have to go through this.

I've got such a hard headed little boy!


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## kylatay (Jan 25, 2006)

Thank You SO much for this journal. I was just looking up how to wean gently. My DD is also 13 months and I really do need sleep! I did the routine last night and she woke up and I fed her for about 4 mins or so. Then I gently pulled her off. She cried and fussed on and off for 30 mins. All the time I comforted her and finally sang her to sleep.

Again she woke up in her 7 hour block. I fed her again, only slightly less and she bearly even fussed, then rolled over and slept. She nursed pretty well after her 7 hour block was up when she woke again and then fell asleep for a little longer. I'm debating towards moving straight to no nurse during the 7 hours or do 2 more days of a little nursing.

Thanks for this thread! I really need this!
K


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kylatay* 
Thank You SO much for this journal. I was just looking up how to wean gently. My DD is also 13 months and I really do need sleep! I did the routine last night and she woke up and I fed her for about 4 mins or so. Then I gently pulled her off. She cried and fussed on and off for 30 mins. All the time I comforted her and finally sang her to sleep.

Again she woke up in her 7 hour block. I fed her again, only slightly less and she bearly even fussed, then rolled over and slept. She nursed pretty well after her 7 hour block was up when she woke again and then fell asleep for a little longer. I'm debating towards moving straight to no nurse during the 7 hours or do 2 more days of a little nursing.

Thanks for this thread! I really need this!
K

You may be surprised that she doesn't fuss all that much with no nursing at all during that time since you've gradually shortened her time nursing and she seems to be okay with it







Sometimes babies' adaptability blows me away. Good luck and I'd love to know how it goes for you!


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Megan~* 
Unknowingly I've been doing this with ds for 5 months or so. He's 2.5 and still doesn't fall asleep on his own. He will cry for half an hour or more demanding to nurse. Occasionally we have a lucky night in which ds doesn't wake up and we don't have to go through this.

I've got such a hard headed little boy!

Wow - all I have for you is







!


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## mom2tatum (Mar 14, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Megan~* 
Unknowingly I've been doing this with ds for 5 months or so. He's 2.5 and still doesn't fall asleep on his own. He will cry for half an hour or more demanding to nurse. Occasionally we have a lucky night in which ds doesn't wake up and we don't have to go through this.

I've got such a hard headed little boy!

yeah, this would be us, I am SURE if it wasn't for dh taking over in the other bedroom during the nighttime...when we started this over two weeks ago I was finally relieved, yet shocked he didn't NEED me. Every night is different of course, but I am so happy that we are on the right path finally...


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## anewmama (Feb 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happy2bamama* 
Just a quick question... DS has been sleeping longer and harder before we come to bed these past few days and if he doesn't naturally wake up when we come to bed, what are your thoughts about me waking him up to give him one big feed before bed in hopes of keeping him fuller longer (maybe this is considered a "dream feed")? If night weaning is causing him to sleep longer and harder (which is great!), I don't want to screw that up by waking him up, but I also don't want him to wake up super hungry in the middle of the night (although I know technically he can go all night without milk). Thoughts? TIA

Based on no experience with this really, I say gently wake him. If you son is like my DD, they don't really totally wake up and nurse in their sleep.

But you could first try to see how he does without. If it makes the rest of your block harder, I say go to waking him.

For now, I am electing to "wake" DD before her window if she hasn't woken up. For me, this goes back to trying to break the cycle of she cries and I feed. Which sort of is a negative followed by positive reinforcement. I would rather there be positive followed by positive. Head off hunger and the negative before it presents and just offer something positive.

But like everything in this, it's trial and error... But my daughter is younger so I am more inclined to wake. If she were older, not sure how I feel...


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

NIGHT NINE!! I last nursed DS at 7:15pm and then 9:45pm. When DH and I came to bed, we had to slightly move DS (like usual) and again he didn't wake up like he usually does. It's great to see him sleeping deeper! I didn't wake him to nurse again. When he woke up in the night, I looked at the clock and it was 4:15am!!!!







Last night he skipped the 2:15 waking (at least for now - I know it could come back)! That is the longest sleep I've had in over a year.

So, when DS woke up at 4:15am, I patted him until he fell asleep. Again, barely any fussing. He fell asleep and woke back up around 5:30am. I nursed him one side and he slept until 6:20am, then we did the other side and he woke up for good.

I'd love to say that I don't feel tired at all today, but I am still sleepy and DH still got up with DS this morning and gave me a nap for an hour (which he does almost everyday - I love DH!). I'm going to be so bummed if I don't feel less tired after this night weaning and getting 6-7 hours of straight sleep. For those who've done it, does it take some time to "refuel" before you felt a difference?

Bottom line... last night was a major success!!!!







:


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## Keirasmommy (Jan 17, 2008)

: congrats!! Glad you are finally seeing some real improvement!! My DD had such a bad night last night, including some in the middle of the night arguing between me and DH (always the best time to have a discussion







). She was up every hour after midnight, sometimes less. These molars are killing us!!!!!!!!!! As much as I want to make a change for my sake, I know she is in alot of pain and needs comfort now and nighttime breastfeeding is where she gets it and wants it. So, I am going to commit myself to nightweaning as soon as they two break through. I think that even when the rest come in, if I had some good sleep in between, maybe I'd be ready to handle it better, and more calmly. I don't like being a grumpy bear to her at night (or during the next day for that matter!).


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## elsa1975 (Jun 12, 2006)

Hi Happy2bamama,
My DD is the same age as your LO. Having not an easy and good sleeper,I remember having read your threads to this forum in the past.
Thank you for posting this and congrats for your success!
One of my concerns regarding this plan is decreasing my milk supply.Like you, I demand feed and I have no plans of stopping yet.If we can do it,I want her to self wean.Did you speak about this with J.Gordon?Does night weaning cause decrease in supply?
Another concern is that DD isn't very much into solids.Some days she'll have some and some days she won't.Usually she likes to eat something after her morning nap and in the afternoon, rarely at dinner.
Btw, I envy your long streches







DD wakes up hourly.
Thanks for taking your time.


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *elsa1975* 
Hi Happy2bamama,
My DD is the same age as your LO. Having not an easy and good sleeper,I remember having read your threads to this forum in the past.
Thank you for posting this and congrats for your success!
One of my concerns regarding this plan is decreasing my milk supply.Like you, I demand feed and I have no plans of stopping yet.If we can do it,I want her to self wean.Did you speak about this with J.Gordon?Does night weaning cause decrease in supply?
Another concern is that DD isn't very much into solids.Some days she'll have some and some days she won't.Usually she likes to eat something after her morning nap and in the afternoon, rarely at dinner.
Btw, I envy your long streches







DD wakes up hourly.
Thanks for taking your time.

You aren't kidding - our LOs are the EXACT same age - born on the same day! What time was yours? DS was at 12:57am.

So, about the milk supply - I think I remember Dr. Gordon saying that my DS would make up for it during the day, so my milk supply won't necessarily decrease, but just shift. And, before night-weaning, when DS woke up for good in the AM, he wouldn't nurse - he'd be up and ready to play. But now, he nurses a lot in the AM, so it does seem like the nursing is shifting, not really decreasing. And actually, I notice that he does nurse a bit more during the day. Except for days like this when he was out having fun with his dad for most of the day and I am about ready to burst waiting for them to come home! And, DS doesn't really eat all that much in terms of solids - sometimes (most times) there is no real dinner to speak of. I do think milk supply decrease could be an issue for moms who aren't able to be around during the day (and who night-wean). I guess night-weaning IS some kind of step towards total weaning in a way - just like everyday they get older is a step towards weaning, KWIM? I think if you "protect" your milk supply and make a point to offer it a lot during the day - even when your LO isn't asking for it - you won't have any issues (IMO). HTH and hopefully you'll get some sleep soon


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Keirasmommy* 







: congrats!! Glad you are finally seeing some real improvement!! My DD had such a bad night last night, including some in the middle of the night arguing between me and DH (always the best time to have a discussion







). She was up every hour after midnight, sometimes less. These molars are killing us!!!!!!!!!! As much as I want to make a change for my sake, I know she is in alot of pain and needs comfort now and nighttime breastfeeding is where she gets it and wants it. So, I am going to commit myself to nightweaning as soon as they two break through. I think that even when the rest come in, if I had some good sleep in between, maybe I'd be ready to handle it better, and more calmly. I don't like being a grumpy bear to her at night (or during the next day for that matter!).

I'm sorry you had such a rough night last night. Middle of the night arguing - we've all been there! Even though we are having success right now, I know that once more teeth and especially molars hit, he will be waking a lot again. I just think of right now as refueling and building up my sleep reserve for when that happens







That's great that you're listening to your gut about continuing to nurse at night while DD is having a tough time and needs extra comfort. Keep up the good work and hopefully you'll get some relief (and your DD will too) soon!


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## elsa1975 (Jun 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happy2bamama* 
You aren't kidding - our LOs are the EXACT same age - born on the same day! What time was yours? DS was at 12:57am.

Oh dear,I wasn't aware of that. DD was born at 8:02pm.

Thanks for replying my questions.I am a SAHM,so I can nurse her lots during the day which would be an advantage.
The next few days I will think about this subject and see if we are ready to do this.I began to take note of the time she wakes up. Normally I'd never look at the time and count how many times she woke up.She woke up 4 times after I went to bed last night and gave me a 3 hour strech which was lovely


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## muttmom92 (Mar 20, 2005)

I've been reading this thread with great interest. I'm on the verge of nightweaning my 14 month old ds. He's always been a horrible sleeper. I'm talking waking up every 30 minutes-1 hr for his entire life. I just can't take much more.

He was starting on his own to stretch out his nightwaking to every 2 and sometimes even 3 hours. Let me tell you, that felt like heaven. But now he's getting all 4 of his molars at once! So, I'm waiting it out and once they're through, I'm going to do Dr. Gordon's method.

My dd slept the same way until I nightweaned her at 18 months. We still have some issues with her, but she's much better. So I have hope that once I do this, ds will sleep better, too.

Keep posting about your journey.


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

NIGHT TEN!! DS is definitely sleeping harder and longer. The wakings have not completely stopped, but it is SO much better. Since we're modifying Dr. Gordon's plan, I think it might take a bit longer for us. Also, I don't think that all waking can be eliminated at ALL times. I don't think this plan is a magic pill or anything, but it sure has made our life more pleasant! And - I feel like DS is sleeping better too.

Last night, DS woke up around 10:20pm (he gave us a nice 3.5 hour stretch there) and I nursed him both sides. He woke up around 1am, but fell back asleep within two minutes. He woke up around 4am again and had a hard time falling back to sleep - just tossing and turning. I think it probably took about an hour. I considered nursing him, but it felt too early still. 4am still seems like night to me! He woke up again around 5:20am and I nursed him. Then he woke up for good around 7:30am, which was later than usual and fabulous! Even though DS woke up a few times, I felt really rested this morning - enough to get up with DS and let DH sleep a bit.


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## mom2tatum (Mar 14, 2007)

wow, sounds like its getting better and better for you. I don't know what night exactly we're on, but somewhere around 15 or 16 I think...Um, the last few nights have been rough on everyone because of molars and lots of waking. BUT, last night, ds slept from 9 to 6:15 and didn't wake at all. WHOA! WHAT? yeah, I know. Are the blessings finally coming? Dh and ds sleep in a separate room with mattress on floor for either one, depending on where ds chooses usually. Dh said that last night ds rolled from the bed onto the floor (where dh was) and then dh moved onto the bed and they stayed that way until morning. Ds came into "my" room and threw open the door which scared the crap out of me and walked over to the bed and put his arms up. I picked him up and nursed him for about ten minutes on each side(his demand) and then we played in bed for a little. Went downstairs and changed, did breakfast, played, etc. until dh woke up at 8:30 (he's laid off right now) and came down like..."whoa, when did he get up? I never knew he left the room?" It was the first time in a long time that dh and me both felt rested (probably also because I went to sleep at a decent time - 10, instead of pushing it like I normally do, craving some time to myself).

And we also both noticed that since I have been getting straight sleep for a couple weeks now, my appetite has returned and I am eating a lot more and better. Weird coincidence? I am thinking not. I have always struggled to get enough to eat because I rarely get very hungry. And when I do, I don't feel like making anything great to eat, ykwim? So, I am generally pretty happy with the benefits I am seeing so far in nightweaning the way we are doing it. I even gained a few pounds, and trust me - this is a problem I have really been battling with ever since I had my son. I don't even share with many other moms, usually, because I know other moms have the opposite problem with their weight. But, I wanted to say it here because I think it also says something about some of the "consequences" of training our LO to nurse back to sleep whenever they want through the night due to co-sleeping. I loved co-sleeping because of the benefits to ds emotionally and the ease of nursing at night when he was littler, but oh boy - I learned as well how many problems it caused our family as well. It feels good to have a balanced thought process now, too. I was so set on doing the right thing for him that I really neglected my and dh's needs which effected my emotional and physical health as well as my ability to parent...I am feeling more normal everyday...and it really felt great to hear that from my wonderful husband this morning also, yk? We have a lot going on in our house/family right now, but this is one of the good things for sure!

Thanks to Dr. Jay Gordon's plan, we were able to make it work our own way and feel empowered finally! Hooray!


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## terpgirl23 (Oct 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happy2bamama* 
NIGHT TEN!! DS is definitely sleeping harder and longer. The wakings have not completely stopped, but it is SO much better. Since we're modifying Dr. Gordon's plan, I think it might take a bit longer for us. Also, I don't think that all waking can be eliminated at ALL times. I don't think this plan is a magic pill or anything, but it sure has made our life more pleasant! And - I feel like DS is sleeping better too.

Last night, DS woke up around 10:20pm (he gave us a nice 3.5 hour stretch there) and I nursed him both sides. He woke up around 1am, but fell back asleep within two minutes. He woke up around 4am again and had a hard time falling back to sleep - just tossing and turning. I think it probably took about an hour. I considered nursing him, but it felt too early still. 4am still seems like night to me! He woke up again around 5:20am and I nursed him. Then he woke up for good around 7:30am, which was later than usual and fabulous! Even though DS woke up a few times, I felt really rested this morning - enough to get up with DS and let DH sleep a bit.









I have said it once, but I will say it again - you are such an inspiration! Not because of your success, necessarily, but simply because you are forgeing the way for many of us other mommas AND you are doing it with such honesty. All the while, being very true to who you are as a parent and the things you believe in (yes, I am getting ALL of this from just your posts). Anyway, thanks for sharing.

As I have mentioned, we are going to be starting our own version of this plan soon. I had sort of started in on Friday night, but BooBaby has come down with the flu and is just miserable, so we are going to wait until she is feeling better. I am hoping Wed or Thurs. I will try to do my best to share my experience as well.

Thanks for starting this thread and to all the other mommas for keeping it going!


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom2tatum* 
wow, sounds like its getting better and better for you. I don't know what night exactly we're on, but somewhere around 15 or 16 I think...Um, the last few nights have been rough on everyone because of molars and lots of waking. BUT, last night, ds slept from 9 to 6:15 and didn't wake at all. WHOA! WHAT? yeah, I know. Are the blessings finally coming? Dh and ds sleep in a separate room with mattress on floor for either one, depending on where ds chooses usually. Dh said that last night ds rolled from the bed onto the floor (where dh was) and then dh moved onto the bed and they stayed that way until morning. Ds came into "my" room and threw open the door which scared the crap out of me and walked over to the bed and put his arms up. I picked him up and nursed him for about ten minutes on each side(his demand) and then we played in bed for a little. Went downstairs and changed, did breakfast, played, etc. until dh woke up at 8:30 (he's laid off right now) and came down like..."whoa, when did he get up? I never knew he left the room?" It was the first time in a long time that dh and me both felt rested (probably also because I went to sleep at a decent time - 10, instead of pushing it like I normally do, craving some time to myself).

And we also both noticed that since I have been getting straight sleep for a couple weeks now, my appetite has returned and I am eating a lot more and better. Weird coincidence? I am thinking not. I have always struggled to get enough to eat because I rarely get very hungry. And when I do, I don't feel like making anything great to eat, ykwim? So, I am generally pretty happy with the benefits I am seeing so far in nightweaning the way we are doing it. I even gained a few pounds, and trust me - this is a problem I have really been battling with ever since I had my son. I don't even share with many other moms, usually, because I know other moms have the opposite problem with their weight. But, I wanted to say it here because I think it also says something about some of the "consequences" of training our LO to nurse back to sleep whenever they want through the night due to co-sleeping. I loved co-sleeping because of the benefits to ds emotionally and the ease of nursing at night when he was littler, but oh boy - I learned as well how many problems it caused our family as well. It feels good to have a balanced thought process now, too. I was so set on doing the right thing for him that I really neglected my and dh's needs which effected my emotional and physical health as well as my ability to parent...I am feeling more normal everyday...and it really felt great to hear that from my wonderful husband this morning also, yk? We have a lot going on in our house/family right now, but this is one of the good things for sure!

Thanks to Dr. Jay Gordon's plan, we were able to make it work our own way and feel empowered finally! Hooray!

Thanks for the post! It's an interesting point you bring up about being so set on doing the right thing for your DS that you felt like you neglected yourself and DH. I don't know if you're like this, but because I'm so against a lot of mainstream parenting and birth, I have done everything I can to NOT be the typical kind of checked out parents that I see. But, there is a balance (like most things in life) in which the baby is getting their needs met and so are we, as parents. And it all effects everything else. If I am a zombie, then how can I be the best mom for DS? Which is better - continuing to nurse at night and me being half asleep and impatient during the day or stopping nursing at night and me being alert and energetic during the day? That's the thing - there is no way to measure which is "better," just which is more important to us (which is different for every mama and baby). But it is so easy to get into the "but the baby NEEDS X, Y and Z" and completely forget about yourself. And, there's such a huge difference between us parents simply wanting some sleep at night after a year (or more) vs. wanting to just go play golf or tennis or any other cliche parent sport I can think of!! Sleep is a necessity, not a luxury (although I'm sure some would argue that golf and tennis are a necessity - maybe just no one here at MDC)!

Oh and about your eating and finally gaining weight since your appetite has returned... I am sort of in the same boat. My appetite hasn't gone, but I weigh less than I did pre-pregnancy because nursing and daily maintenance of a very active baby leaves barely any time for me to really sit and eat and I am physically going all day. It is amazing how much sleep deprivation can effect other things. They don't use sleep deprivation as a torture method for nothing, I guess









I'm glad to hear that even though you've had some rocky nights with molars, that you've at least got to have a few good, long stretches of sleep. 9pm to 6:15am is AWESOME!! Way to go! It sounds like you guys felt human again! Keep up the good work and please, keep checking in and letting me know how it's going









Quote:


Originally Posted by *terpgirl23* 
I have said it once, but I will say it again - you are such an inspiration! Not because of your success, necessarily, but simply because you are forgeing the way for many of us other mommas AND you are doing it with such honesty. All the while, being very true to who you are as a parent and the things you believe in (yes, I am getting ALL of this from just your posts). Anyway, thanks for sharing.

As I have mentioned, we are going to be starting our own version of this plan soon. I had sort of started in on Friday night, but BooBaby has come down with the flu and is just miserable, so we are going to wait until she is feeling better. I am hoping Wed or Thurs. I will try to do my best to share my experience as well.

Thanks for starting this thread and to all the other mommas for keeping it going!

Thank you so much for your kind words! I'm happy you are getting all those wonderful things out of this thread because sometimes it feels like it's basically a blog entitled "How my son slept last night!" Not the most entertaining reading. But, I am a born analyzer, and it sounds like my "analysis" or thoughts or whatever are coming through too, which is my intention









I'm sorry your LO has the flu. That stinks.







I'd love to know how things go when (and if) you try the night-weaning. Good luck to you!









BTW - in the spirit of being "honest," I just have to say that getting some sleep back - and not to mention that DH was Mr. Mom this weekend and gave me some "me" time - has made me feel like a real person again and I went shopping on Sunday with a friend who forced me to get some cute stuff that wasn't just comfortable, bland, nursing-friendly "mom-wear" and I have to say, sleep + a new pair of form-fitting jeans and some halfway stylish shoes can do a lot for a lady!!


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## mom2tatum (Mar 14, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happy2bamama* 
Thanks for the post! It's an interesting point you bring up about being so set on doing the right thing for your DS that you felt like you neglected yourself and DH. I don't know if you're like this, but because I'm so against a lot of mainstream parenting and birth, I have done everything I can to NOT be the typical kind of checked out parents that I see. But, there is a balance (like most things in life) in which the baby is getting their needs met and so are we, as parents. And it all effects everything else. If I am a zombie, then how can I be the best mom for DS? Which is better - continuing to nurse at night and me being half asleep and impatient during the day or stopping nursing at night and me being alert and energetic during the day? That's the thing - there is no way to measure which is "better," just which is more important to us (which is different for every mama and baby). But it is so easy to get into the "but the baby NEEDS X, Y and Z" and completely forget about yourself. And, there's such a huge difference between us parents simply wanting some sleep at night after a year (or more) vs. wanting to just go play golf or tennis or any other cliche parent sport I can think of!! Sleep is a necessity, not a luxury (although I'm sure some would argue that golf and tennis are a necessity - maybe just no one here at MDC)!

Oh and about your eating and finally gaining weight since your appetite has returned... I am sort of in the same boat. My appetite hasn't gone, but I weigh less than I did pre-pregnancy because nursing and daily maintenance of a very active baby leaves barely any time for me to really sit and eat and I am physically going all day. It is amazing how much sleep deprivation can effect other things. They don't use sleep deprivation as a torture method for nothing, I guess









I'm glad to hear that even though you've had some rocky nights with molars, that you've at least got to have a few good, long stretches of sleep. 9pm to 6:15am is AWESOME!! Way to go! It sounds like you guys felt human again! Keep up the good work and please, keep checking in and letting me know how it's going









BTW - in the spirit of being "honest," I just have to say that getting some sleep back - and not to mention that DH was Mr. Mom this weekend and gave me some "me" time - has made me feel like a real person again and I went shopping on Sunday with a friend who forced me to get some cute stuff that wasn't just comfortable, bland, nursing-friendly "mom-wear" and I have to say, sleep + a new pair of form-fitting jeans and some halfway stylish shoes can do a lot for a lady!!


I will keep checking in for sure...and I agree with basically everything you said here...again. And, way to go with the jeans and shoes! I did that like two months ago - from the second hand store actually (which around here is called Plato's closet and its pretty hip along with cheap). Anyway, I got tons of stuff for like a hundred bucks and wow, what a new wardrobe has done for my confidence. I needed clothes badly and it really helped me. I recommend that to everyone when you have a little bit of money to spend on yourself.


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## BabyHaysMama (Aug 7, 2007)

I know I might be a little late joining this thread but I just wanted to say that last night was our fifth night of using Dr. Jay's night weaning plan and our second night of sleeping through the night!! The last two nights have been the best sleep of my life.


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## raeinparis (Sep 26, 2005)

excellent thread! i did a modified jay gordon nightweaning with my first and it worked but it was kind of painful.

ds2 co-sleeps and it's no longer working for us -- for him, me, or dp. we had planned on the boys sharing a room but ds2 isn't into the crib so we don't do that. i'm thinking that we'll put a double futon on the floor in there and gate the door (it's right next to our room). i was thinking that he'd have to be in his big bed first, then i'd nightwean but now i'm wondering if i should try nightweaning first.

how do you mamas *remember* not to put your little ones on the boob in the night? i'm so out of it that i just put him on and don't even remember. this morning dp and i had a conversation about how i had asked him to hold the baby whilst i got up and got a nappy for him but instead i just fell asleep. dp was holding the baby for an hour! i had no idea.

anyway, thanks again so much for the thread, it's inspirational!


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## damililove (Aug 25, 2007)

I'm a little late too but we did a modified version of the plan and I tell you we couldn't be happier. Last Thursday night dd2 slet 8.5hours straight and after a little rocking and patting went back to sleep till her wake up time. We have had a few nights everu other day or so were she wakes up some during the night, but I have really been amazed at her ability to get back to sleep on her own.

I started with nursing for two minutes before laying her down when she would wake up til I was down to 30sec then I moved to the next phase again starting at 2min. We really seemed to have not needed the last phase. I also made it a point to nurse sitting up.

Ayana


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Okay, I've lost count of nights! And, I'm not going to keep posting here every day about how DS sleeps (again, the "How my DS slept last night" blog which no ones wants to read!), but I plan to post when something of interest happens.

Not that this is of interest, but since I'm here, I might as well...

Things are still going well, for the most part. DS slept from 10:30pm to 4am last night, although I was tossing and turning for some reason. And, since DS has been sleeping harder, I've had to wake him up the past two nights when DH and I go to bed so I can nurse DS so I know he's had a good feed. But, I am so torn about it because isn't waking a sleeping baby the opposite of what I'm trying to accomplish here?! One of these nights, I'm just gonna have to bite the bullet and not feed him when I go to bed and see how he does. I wonder if he'd stay asleep the whole time? I'm just so worried about him waking up at 2 or 3am and actually being really hungry.

Also, DS seems to be waking consistently at 4am every morning. At this time, it's hard for him to fully get back to sleep and I'm not sure why - probably that he's hungry? And he fusses a little more at this time too. The bad news for me is that he wakes at 4am, I wake up and rub his back and he sort of falls asleep and then he tosses and turns until 5am or so and I'm awake the entire time wondering if I can roll over without making him wake up again and then DS wakes for good around 6am and then we nurse for about 30 minutes, so I'm basically not sleeping from 4-6am. All in all, it's better than before because I am getting a way longer stretch at the beginning and middle of the night, but needless to say, I feel super tired when first getting up because I've been up for about two hours already. I'm really hoping that this 4am waking stops. Maybe it's just going to take longer to phase it out for some reason.

And, for the other co-sleepers out there - does it ever happen to you when you have a situation like I do with your LO waking and having a hard time fully getting back to sleep and so you can't even roll over or they'll stir even at the littlest movement and you've been laying in the same, uncomfortable position for 30 minutes or more just so you don't wake them and your back is aching but you'd rather have an achy back then an awake baby at 5:30am and then DH, unknowingly rolls over or moves the sheets or some other "needless" (in my mind!) movement and the baby wakes up??!! Man that gets me.


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

So, I know I said I wasn't going to post DS's sleep patterns every night, but I'm sort of at a loss and wanted any thoughts or feedback...

Last night DS woke up around 9:15pm and I nursed him on one side. Then, when DH and I went to bed around 10:30pm, I didn't wake him to nurse b/c i wanted to see how it would go (and he ate solids pretty well yesterday, so I knew he wasn't starving). DS woke up around 1am and went back to sleep within a minute. But then, he woke up at 4am (again) and it was the same thing as usual, a bit more fussy, hard to get him to fall asleep deeply, tossing and turning until 5:15am when he woke up and I nursed him both sides. He barfed again this time







And, he didn't fall back asleep like usual, he snuggled for a bit (which was so yummy) but then he wanted to be up for good at 6am.

Here's where I'm a bit confused... I'm wondering if that 1am (and sometimes 12 or 2am) waking is just taking its sweet time to be phased out. Has anyone BTDT and have a similar situation? Also, like I said in my previous post, the 4am waking is killing me because I'm basically in and out of sleep for two hours. Again, anyone BTDT with a similar situation? I just remembered that yesterday DSs' nap got cut short, so maybe that had something to do with the 1am waking?? (insert sound of me grasping at straws)

I'm thinking that it's just going to take more time since we're doing a more gentle approach and still giving him comfort when he wakes, but I just wanted to hear thoughts from some veterans. How long did it take with your LO?

TIA!


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## muttmom92 (Mar 20, 2005)

I don't have any advice, but I wanted to let you know that the hours from 3:30-6:30 are crappy here to. Once he wakes at 3:30 or 4, he nurses forever even if he just nursed an hour before (we haven't started nightweaning yet). Then it takes him a long time to fall back to sleep. Then he's up 20 minutes later, tossing and turning. At this point he ends up sleeping on top of me, usually on my neck.







This morning I had his butt in my face, but I dared not move b/c it would wake him up. So yeah, I'm basically up from 3:30 or 4 every day.


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *muttmom92* 
I don't have any advice, but I wanted to let you know that the hours from 3:30-6:30 are crappy here to. Once he wakes at 3:30 or 4, he nurses forever even if he just nursed an hour before (we haven't started nightweaning yet). Then it takes him a long time to fall back to sleep. Then he's up 20 minutes later, tossing and turning. At this point he ends up sleeping on top of me, usually on my neck.







This morning I had his butt in my face, but I dared not move b/c it would wake him up. So yeah, I'm basically up from 3:30 or 4 every day.

I had to laugh at the butt in the face! That happens here too and I'm just happy it's not a foot (which kicks very hard sometimes when waking). Maybe there's just something about that time in the am with the waking b/c DS was like that pre-night-weaning too - getting hungry, almost time to wake up... I'm wondering if I should just nurse him when he wakes at 4am because maybe it would give both of us more sleep (that's IF he fell asleep good after nursing - and that's a big IF), but I'm hesitant because it doesn't really fall within the whole night weaning thing and if it's just a matter of him gradually phasing out that waking at 4am, then I don't want to "give in" instead of being patient and it paying off in the long run.


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *milkydoula* 
We did this recently with our 17 month old. I wasn't sleeping well nursing all night long and would wakeup with a backache in the morning. And it went very easily, actually. When i nursed him and unlatched him before he was in a deep sleep, he was unhappy. I scooted him to his daddy for snuggles, he cried for a minute and fell asleep. He wasn't willing to give up his 4 or 5 a.m. nursing, so he nurses from 4/5 until we get up at 6:30 or 7. It was a good compromise though. He is now sleeping peacefully between us from 10 or 11 until 4 or 5. So much better!









I remembered that you posted about compromising with that 4/5am feed... Before you decided to nurse him for that feed, was your DS tossing and turning like my DS? I'm wondering if nursing him at that time will make the rest of our morning easier (from 4-6 or 7am). Has your DS ever phased out that 4/5am waking or do you still do it? I think tonight I am going to nurse him if (or should I say, when) he wakes at 4/5am just to see what happens and if it helps. I'm a little scared about it messing up our night weaning, but I don't think one feed at 4/5am will mess up how solid he's been sleeping at the beginning part of the night. Where's a crystal ball when I need it?


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Just wanted to post this in case it helps anyone...

Two nights ago, I fed DS before bed (10:30pm) and he woke up at 1pm, but fell asleep within 30 seconds or so. Then, as a test to see what would happen, I decided to nurse him when he woke and was restless at 4:30am. He nursed forever - so much that I took him off the boob because my back was killing me. He fussed for about 3 seconds and then we patted him to sleep and he fell asleep again in about 30 seconds and then woke up for good around 6:20am.

I called Dr. Gordon because I was at a loss about what to do about this 4-ish am waking. I've been feeling like we were getting somewhere and then it started to feel like a regression, so I wanted to ask him if that was normal or what the deal was.

First, he said, "By now you see that this isn't a science." He's right, but then I sort of feel like his plan should not be called "10 Long Nights" because even though I knew this could take more or less time than 10 nights, I still sort of had that timeframe in my head because of the name of the plan. That's neither here nor there, though. But, it made me realize that we're not out of the trees yet.

Dr. Gordon said that my DS would drop that 1-2am-ish waking probably in a week or two. And, even last night, DS tossed and turned during that time, but didn't ever actually wake up. So, I feel like that's him transitioning into not waking (possibly wishful thinking on my part, though).

Regarding the 4am waking, Dr. Gordon said that I should do what I felt would work best for us - that I ultimately know better than he does. But he did also say that DS will continue to wake to nurse at that time if I continue to nurse him then (which makes sense, obviously). He basically said something like, "You will see results sooner if you don't nurse him then." And then it got me thinking that yeah, by nursing him, I'm prolonging the whole thing. Also, I feel like by sometimes nursing him at 4am and sometimes not, it could be confusing for him, so I've decided to keep on with NOT nursing him at that time, unless he's really upset and needs it. Last night, when I didn't nurse him at 4am, he actually went back to sleep smoother than he had been, so I'm really seeing that it's all about giving it time.

Dr. Gordon also told me that it was completely normal to have these regressions and feel like you're coming really far and then be set back a bit. That made me feel better, like at least we weren't doing something wrong!

The other thing that's been happening to me is that the past few nights, I haven't been able to sleep very well even when DS is asleep. I feel like I'm waiting to see when he's going to wake up. I'm hoping that stops soon. Has anyone else been doing that? There's nothing more annoying than having the time to sleep, but not being able to!







:

That's all - just wanted to post about my conversation with Dr. Gordon. I feel this duty to report his advice on the subject!

BTW - DS is 14 months old and I haven't had my period yet, but I'm starting to feel like it's about to come. I'm thinking that its return is probably due to the night weaning even though DS still nurses a TON during the day.


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## mom2tatum (Mar 14, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happy2bamama* 
The other thing that's been happening to me is that the past few nights, I haven't been able to sleep very well even when DS is asleep. I feel like I'm waiting to see when he's going to wake up. I'm hoping that stops soon. Has anyone else been doing that? There's nothing more annoying than having the time to sleep, but not being able to!







:

That's all - just wanted to post about my conversation with Dr. Gordon. I feel this duty to report his advice on the subject!

BTW - DS is 14 months old and I haven't had my period yet, but I'm starting to feel like it's about to come. I'm thinking that its return is probably due to the night weaning even though DS still nurses a TON during the day.

Well, thanks for posting all that. Makes perfect sense what he said. About the not being able to sleep even now when he IS sleeping...OMG do I know that feeling. Exactly what happened to me, too, and I agree its for the same reason you mention. Although, the good news is that it did stop after about three nights for me. But, I am not sleeping with ds anymore, so I don't know if it stopped because I was able to release my feelings and fears and worries and hand over nighttime responsibilities to dh instead? But either way, I am SURE you will get over it as time goes on and things go smoother especially when he isn't waking you up AT ALL anymore.

And the period thing makes sense. My ds slept through the night when he was 0-4 mos old because we stupidly swaddled him (IMO) and my period returned at about 3 or 4 mos PP. So, this might do it for ya.


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## Keirasmommy (Jan 17, 2008)

happy2bamama -
Just wanted to let you know that my DH and I talked and 2 nights ago decided to do a scaled back version of Dr. Gordon's plan. I decided I'm ok with her still nightnursing just not as often as she was. So I picked from 12-4 am to cut out feeds. And I have to say, so far so good. I really do think she must have been ready for this, b/c when we tried this for her at 13 months, it was not a pretty sight. So, I think she is in a much better place. She only woke 2x during the block the 1st night and last night it was only once!! Plus, overall, her other blocks of sleeping beyond that time have stretched longer including her nap yesterday. So, I know it's still early, but I'm encouraged. And who knows, maybe if she continues to do well, we'll try extending the time by an hour on each side.
Good Luck with your DS and let me know how continuing to refuse that 4 am feed goes. My DD is also restless at that time and usually nurses alot between that time and her actual wake-up.


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Keirasmommy* 
happy2bamama -
Just wanted to let you know that my DH and I talked and 2 nights ago decided to do a scaled back version of Dr. Gordon's plan. I decided I'm ok with her still nightnursing just not as often as she was. So I picked from 12-4 am to cut out feeds. And I have to say, so far so good. I really do think she must have been ready for this, b/c when we tried this for her at 13 months, it was not a pretty sight. So, I think she is in a much better place. She only woke 2x during the block the 1st night and last night it was only once!! Plus, overall, her other blocks of sleeping beyond that time have stretched longer including her nap yesterday. So, I know it's still early, but I'm encouraged. And who knows, maybe if she continues to do well, we'll try extending the time by an hour on each side.
Good Luck with your DS and let me know how continuing to refuse that 4 am feed goes. My DD is also restless at that time and usually nurses alot between that time and her actual wake-up.

I'm so glad things are going well for you guys! I think the way you are going about it is excellent. And yeah, I think that once your LO isn't waking at all during that 12-4 window, it will probably extend before and after in a few months (or so). I bet that sounds exciting!!

I sort of can't remember last night - I actually slept instead of waiting up for DS to wake! But, what I do remember is that DS woke up around 2:45am and I barely had to do anything to get him back to sleep again. I don't even think he really woke up. And then I can't remember if he woke up around 4am and went back to sleep or just woke up at 5:45am and we nursed, but either way, it wasn't eventful enough for me to remember, so that means it was smooth and no tossing and turning - yay! When DS did nurse (just one side), he barfed again. I really don't know what is up with that. I know my boobs are super full and my milk comes out really fast, so maybe once my milk regulates a bit more and isn't SO full in the am he won't barf anymore. Things seem to be looking up though, in general!

Thanks for the post!


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## bottomsup (Jul 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happy2bamama* 
I totally know what you mean - it feels so strange to NOT just offer the boob immediately, but then it feels so awesome and empowering (IMO) to be able to soothe DS without it. I'm so happy that your DD is able to go back to sleep without the breast and without much crying. I think that's a prime situation.

This really resonated with me. Last night was really the first time since he was 4 months old that I was able to get my guy (11 months) back to sleep with anything other than nursing. I just held him in bed, and he fell asleep (there was one time while he was teething that he did not fall asleep while nursing, but that was NOT a peaceful experience!).

It was so...I don't know..different, wonderful to have him just fall asleep in my arms. I have been thinking of it all day, the way his head felt snuggled in my neck as he fell asleep.

It is an awesome feeling...


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bottomsup* 
This really resonated with me. Last night was really the first time since he was 4 months old that I was able to get my guy (11 months) back to sleep with anything other than nursing. I just held him in bed, and he fell asleep (there was one time while he was teething that he did not fall asleep while nursing, but that was NOT a peaceful experience!).

It was so...I don't know..different, wonderful to have him just fall asleep in my arms. I have been thinking of it all day, the way his head felt snuggled in my neck as he fell asleep.

It is an awesome feeling...

Awww... that sounds so sweet. I think it's so wonderful to know that WE can soothe them and not just our boob (even though it's still us) KWIM? Although, I'm not knocking the awesomeness of the boob, it's still magical!

I've also found that ever since we've been nightweaning, my anxiety level is so much lower. Not that it was super high before, but now, when I leave DS with DH for a few hours, I don't worry about DS freaking out because he wants to nurse because I know that DS knows how to deal without it for a bit. And if DS falls asleep with DH (in the car), I don't worry as much about him waking up and wanting to nurse immediately either.

I have to say, overall, I feel so much happier with everything about motherhood. I don't know if night weaning was the total reason (or maybe was it the new jeans and shoes?), but I notice that I have sooooo much more patience and (sorry to be cliche), zest for life! And, naps have been going amazingly. Again, don't know if it's due to the night weaning or something else, but DH and I have driven DS for almost all of his naps for the past four months and the past two weeks, I think we've done it once. DS has been nursing to sleep in bed like the old days without a lot of struggle. What a relief - I actually get a big chunk of time everyday to nap with DS or to do what needs to be done (or eat). And, he's been napping for a lot longer too. He did almost 3 hours yesterday and is has been down for 2.5 hours today.









BTW - last night DS slept straight from 8pm to 3:45am - almost 8 hours!!! It made me think, "Shoot! Why didn't I go to bed at 8pm instead of 11pm?!" He was in and out of sleep from 4-6am again, but it's getting better gradually.

How's everyone else doing with it?


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## mom2tatum (Mar 14, 2007)

We are doing great. Life is better overall because of this. For us, we needed it for SOOO many reasons. I thoroughly enjoy sleeping straight through from 10-5 or so. Our only bump (like your 4 am waking) is that when ds wakes at 5 -6 ish he begs dh to nurse (and thats fine) so he brings him to me and I do - but he never can get himself to settle back down to sleep again after that. I think its because he needs to nurse so much at that point, he nurses for like 30 min. or more usually and that seems to actually wake him up more than anything. So, we just keep hoping he'll work that out because it seems once in a while, like today, he DID fall back to sleep until 9 - and thats even nicer!


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## anewmama (Feb 25, 2007)

Since I posted a few times on this thread, I thought I would update on our progress. Basically, I got really sick (bronchitis/pneumonia like). I could tell by pumping that my milk supply was dropping so I resumed night nursing. I can't afford a drop in milk supply since DD is nearly 11 months and barely has an interest in solids. I couldn't risk reduced night nursing and illness would cause problems. But I am looking forward to resuming this when we are all better and she is eating more. So probably some time in the early summer.

Great thread..


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## mom2tatum (Mar 14, 2007)

sounds like you made the right decision...good luck in the future with it!


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## Keirasmommy (Jan 17, 2008)

Last night was night 4 and it was ok. I think DD's molars were making her a grump, that and the only 1/2 hr nap she took that day. Plus DH got home from being out of town - lots of excitement.
All in all, she was up alot at the beginning of the night. I finally nursed her at 9:45 and she slept till 12:15. This is in our window, so I told her nursies were sleeping and she protested of course, but she went back to sleep on her own, just by snuggling with me. And it didn't take that long either! She woke at 3:30 again and snuggled again to sleep. Then woke at 4:15 and I finally nursed her since it was past our 12-4 am window. She was very happy. And then slept til 6:40. So, not bad considering her teeth were really bugging her. Hoping her nap today is better!


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## bottomsup (Jul 6, 2007)

So we are working on this now, and overall, not so bad. He starts the night on an air mattress on the floor, and does great for the first wake up. I pick him up when he wakes, and he is right back out.

When I move him to bed is when the fun starts. He was not happy...but it was not nearly as awful as I thought. So far, we have been lucky in that he has only woken up twice, instead of his usual every hour!

My question, and I think it was addressed a little earlier, just wanted to get thoughts and experience.

I have chosen 9-4 a.m. He sleeps so restlessly in the early a.m., I afraid that he will be up for the day if I do not feed. Plus, I would like to get it to where he sleeps through the early evening before I come to bed, so we get an hour or so to ourselves







Not too hopeful on that front, but I have noticed that the back to sleep has gotten easier WITHOUT the nursing--holding him, he falls back asleep so much quicker, so that is progress.

Ok, I digressed and forgot to get to the question. Will feeding him at 4 a.m., and then again at 5:30, as opposed to having his last feeding at 11:00 p.m. and the next right before he wakes up, screw up the rest of the night? Will it confuse him too much do y'all think?

I ask because we are only on night two of the no feeding at all part, so I am not sure what to expect!

Hope all is going well for the rest of you!

Thanks--
Meg


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bottomsup* 
So we are working on this now, and overall, not so bad. He starts the night on an air mattress on the floor, and does great for the first wake up. I pick him up when he wakes, and he is right back out.

When I move him to bed is when the fun starts. He was not happy...but it was not nearly as awful as I thought. So far, we have been lucky in that he has only woken up twice, instead of his usual every hour!

My question, and I think it was addressed a little earlier, just wanted to get thoughts and experience.

I have chosen 9-4 a.m. He sleeps so restlessly in the early a.m., I afraid that he will be up for the day if I do not feed. Plus, I would like to get it to where he sleeps through the early evening before I come to bed, so we get an hour or so to ourselves







Not too hopeful on that front, but I have noticed that the back to sleep has gotten easier WITHOUT the nursing--holding him, he falls back asleep so much quicker, so that is progress.

Ok, I digressed and forgot to get to the question. Will feeding him at 4 a.m., and then again at 5:30, as opposed to having his last feeding at 11:00 p.m. and the next right before he wakes up, screw up the rest of the night? Will it confuse him too much do y'all think?

I ask because we are only on night two of the no feeding at all part, so I am not sure what to expect!

Hope all is going well for the rest of you!

Thanks--
Meg

I'm glad to hear that you're having a relatively easy time getting your DS to go back to sleep without nursing - that's great!

Okay, so I am a little confused about your question, but from what I understood you were asking, no, I don't think that having his last feeding at 9pm and then the next one at 4am (and then 5:30am) will confuse him. If anything, it seems like it's a little LESS confusing since once he's fallen asleep, there is no feeding at all until 4am, whereas with my DS, after he's fallen asleep, he is "allowed" to nurse before 11pm (which makes no logical sense to him since he can't tell time). I've always thought that part was somewhat confusing. I imagine him thinking, "But it was cool when I nursed an hour ago, why not now??" But, bottom line, this experience has taught me how adaptable babies are - or at least mine is - but I really think babies in general are amazingly flexible. I think your DS will "get" whatever you set up for him. I hope things continue to go smoothly for you all!

An update on us... DS has been sleeping so much longer and if he does wake, I don't really even need to do anything to get him back to sleep. He's even cried out once or twice and then I look over and expect him to be sitting up, but he's rolled over and asleep again. And, for the most part, he's still sleeping really hard in that first stretch before we come to bed. The tough 4-6am stretch comes and goes. Some mornings he doesn't wake or toss and turn too much, but other mornings he does. I think he's still learning how to put himself back to sleep and relax when he's a little hungry. The barfing got better and then it came back for a few days. I know sometimes it can take a month or so for the milk supply to adjust.

Something that I didn't expect to happen is that once DS nurses in the morning - around 6am-ish, I figured he would go back to sleep since he'd have his nice, warm milkies, but instead, the nursing seems to wake him up for the day. Maybe it will change once the milk supply isn't so fast and making him barfy and he'll be able to be comfortable enough to fall back to sleep, but maybe not.

I want to reiterate for those who are just starting this, if you're in the second week of this and you're not seeing the quick results you wanted, it does take some time (more than 10 days, for sure). For us, it's been really gradual, but changes are still being made by DS - longer stretches, sleeping deeper, less waking and easier to put back to sleep (if needed at all). I know I sort of felt like, "Is this even working anymore?" in that second week, but it is most definitely working


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## Momma2SoSweet (Feb 25, 2007)

I was reading over this thread- fiddling with the idea of night weaning my 18 month old but I really don't believe she is ready for it. However, I just wanted to say that I read over Dr. Jay Gordon's site and I think I love him.







:

I am WAY jealous of you mommas who have him (or anyone like him) for your Ped.


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## Keirasmommy (Jan 17, 2008)

So the nightweaning has been going well for us. DD has been sleeping longer consistent chunks of time. The past few nights though she wakes at 12:30 and can't seem to fall all the way back asleep until 2:30. She wakes and tosses and turns, very restless, moaning, and whining. I assumed it was her molars coming in and so last night gave her a second dose of Motrin as it had been 6 1/2 hrs since her initial dose. But she still tossed and turned until 2:30. Doesn't Motrin work faster than that? Or is it something else???????? HELP!


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Keirasmommy* 
So the nightweaning has been going well for us. DD has been sleeping longer consistent chunks of time. The past few nights though she wakes at 12:30 and can't seem to fall all the way back asleep until 2:30. She wakes and tosses and turns, very restless, moaning, and whining. I assumed it was her molars coming in and so last night gave her a second dose of Motrin as it had been 6 1/2 hrs since her initial dose. But she still tossed and turned until 2:30. Doesn't Motrin work faster than that? Or is it something else???????? HELP!

Hi - I can't say about the effect of Motrin, but IMO, this tossing and turning is them transitioning into sleeping through that chunk of time. DS was tossing and turning from 4-6am for the first few weeks and now it's so much better - he doesn't really do that anymore. I'd give it a week or so and see what happens (I know that sounds like forever to be up for two hours in the middle of the night). A few weeks ago I thought we were all screwed up with the night weaning, but slowly DS has been fitting into the rhythm of sleeping through these times that he was usually waking. HTH!


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## Keirasmommy (Jan 17, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happy2bamama* 
Hi - I can't say about the effect of Motrin, but IMO, this tossing and turning is them transitioning into sleeping through that chunk of time. DS was tossing and turning from 4-6am for the first few weeks and now it's so much better - he doesn't really do that anymore. I'd give it a week or so and see what happens (I know that sounds like forever to be up for two hours in the middle of the night). A few weeks ago I thought we were all screwed up with the night weaning, but slowly DS has been fitting into the rhythm of sleeping through these times that he was usually waking. HTH!

Thanks so much! That's good to know. It's not so bad if you know there is an end in sight and she will eventually be sleeping thru this part of the night. I appreciate your BTDT experiences!!!!!!!!!!
BTW, how is your DS sleeping these days?


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## mom2tatum (Mar 14, 2007)

: to happy's response to you I mean


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## wendizbaby (Jul 22, 2005)

I'm joining this thread late, but all day yesterday I read through it and decided to take the next step in our weaning process and go through the night. My ds is 2yrs old and I have to say that I am SO happy with how it went last night. I was dreading it, but it wasn't bad at all! The way I am doing it is allowing him to nurse to sleep and then not again until the next morning. My son definitely eats enough, so I am not concerned that he is hungry, he is just used to fussing and then getting an instant boob in his mouth. Last night, he cried once about a half hour after he went down. I held him and told him it was there for him in the morning. This pissed him off, but he fell back asleep after 10 minutes. He then didn't wake until 4am!! I told him to wait until morning and he fussed for about 1 minute. The next waking was at 5:30 and I gave it to him then. I am hoping and praying that it goes this smoothly for us!!
Anyway, I was really encouraged and confident in my decision after reading the posts on this thread. So thank you, mamas, for your help!

Wendi


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wendizbaby* 
I'm joining this thread late, but all day yesterday I read through it and decided to take the next step in our weaning process and go through the night. My ds is 2yrs old and I have to say that I am SO happy with how it went last night. I was dreading it, but it wasn't bad at all! The way I am doing it is allowing him to nurse to sleep and then not again until the next morning. My son definitely eats enough, so I am not concerned that he is hungry, he is just used to fussing and then getting an instant boob in his mouth. Last night, he cried once about a half hour after he went down. I held him and told him it was there for him in the morning. This pissed him off, but he fell back asleep after 10 minutes. He then didn't wake until 4am!! I told him to wait until morning and he fussed for about 1 minute. The next waking was at 5:30 and I gave it to him then. I am hoping and praying that it goes this smoothly for us!!
Anyway, I was really encouraged and confident in my decision after reading the posts on this thread. So thank you, mamas, for your help!

Wendi

That's awesome! I really think if your LO is ready for this, it's basically painless for all. Of course, there can be setbacks, but it's so nice to be pleasantly surprised with how it goes so well when you've been imagining your LO possibly being really upset. Keep up the good work!


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## terpgirl23 (Oct 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happy2bamama* 

How's everyone else doing with it?

Well, when we first started it, several weeks ago, it seemed like it was going well (or, atleast I felt like it had potential)BUT..the the weeks that have followed Boo has gotten a) a cold, b) Hand-Foot-Mouth disease, c) a horrible, full-body reaction - hives- to either something i ate or she ate and d) is getting her other set of molars in. I can't get her off the breast AT ALL at night. I am really worn down, but I also think that right now is probably not the best time to try this. It is going to have to be soon though because I am barely functioning. I am hoping she will feel better by this weekend.

I will keep you posted.


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## terpgirl23 (Oct 30, 2007)

OK.. I am replying to my own message and this post might actually be another thread unto itself, but since there are so many mommas here talking about nighttime issues, I thought I would try it here.

As you can see from my posts, we have been toying with the idea of doing this plan. My goal is to start doing this once Boo is better , but I have said this before, so I am not feeling optimistic today. As a matter of fact, it feels like "something" is always coming up that causes the plan to get thwarted. And I truly think I am about to come undone right now.

Background - I am a WOHM full-time, as is my hubby. My Boo is almost 14 months old and is a breastfeed baby. She is at day care, but it's at my campus so I nurse her when I want and see her many times during the day (not sure if this is a good or bad thing - another thread, I supposed). But the nights are hellacious. We went from having a great sleeper (she used to sleep in her crib, first in her room, then in hers, from 8pm to 6am, nurse for a bit adn then go down untl8am again) to a horrible sleeper (she now cosleeps with us and nurses almost every hour. We can't put her down, for naps or night time, without one of us being next to her). I am a zoombie. Really. I now know why they use sleep deprevation techniques as torture - I can barely function. I am trying to be so responsive and respectful of her needs right now, while trying to do the same for me, the the scales are clearly tipped in her favor and I don't know how to fix that. I know she is going through some crazy seperation anxiety stuff and doesn't want anyone, including daddy, at any time. This makes nights particularly hard. She has also not felt well for the last few days, along with getting her last 2 molars. But like I said...there is always "something", at some point, it just has to end.

We tried Dr. Gordon't plan about 3 weeks ago for 4 nights and where having some success with it. THen, illness and whatnot and i went back to nursing her on demand. Well, now I am trying to go back to the plan and it's NOT WORKING. I mean, not just "not working", it's failing misserably. She cries and cries, no matter who's arms she is in. The longest has been a hour and after that, I just gave in and nursed (because frankly I just had to sleep).

I really don't know what to do any more and could advice/ suggestions and some postive words to keep me going.

Have any of you "gone backwards" too? How did you deal with it? Also, several of you have mentioned that you modified the plan a bit to fit your needs. Brainstorm with me - what are some things you did?

Thanks for listening. Mostly I just needed to get this out.


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Oh Terpgirl23 - I am so sorry. I want to write more, but my mom's in town, so it might be a few days before I can. Know that it will get better (cuz it sounds like it couldn't get ANY worse, really). Hugs to you and hopefully others will have some quick, helpful responses for you


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## terpgirl23 (Oct 30, 2007)

Thank you so much for your kind words. Just that little message helped me a bit. I am going to take some time off from work this afternoon and try to go see another momma friend to get some support.

I would love to hear your thoughts when you have time. Enjoy your visit with your family.


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## Subliime (Mar 24, 2007)

I just found this thread and it is a godsend. We just started the night weaning plan last night and it was horrible. Dd is 14.5 mo and I really feel like it is time for all of us to get some sleep. I've been so drained lately I can't even think and my dh and I are arguing more and more. I just hope my dd is ready. After last night I have my doubts. It took us about 1.5 hrs to get her to go to sleep. At first she was screaming and crying like we were torturing her. Then she calmed down and as long as we were in constant motion she was okay except for on and off crying and whining. I felt like giving in and nursing her but I didn't want to confuse her and I didn't want to re-enforce the crying and such. She went to sleep finally and woke about 30 mins after. I nursed her for a bit and then unlatched her. She made a crying sound and just rolled over and went back to sleep. I have been feeling pretty insecure all day but dd has been doing fine. I'm hoping that tonight isn't that bad. Has anyone else had it this hard the first night or is it just my dd?


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *terpgirl23* 
Thank you so much for your kind words. Just that little message helped me a bit. I am going to take some time off from work this afternoon and try to go see another momma friend to get some support.

I would love to hear your thoughts when you have time. Enjoy your visit with your family.

Okay, I found a quick second... I really don't have any brilliant ideas for you, sadly. I keep thinking about your situation and trying to think what I would do in your shoes... two things come to mind - one is, when she's crying at night in your arms (or DH's), do you guys walk around with her or just stay in bed? I'm not sure if this would help (and maybe you've already tried it), but distracting your DD with a walk/singing/soothing might help her to feel the closeness and security of being in your arms without actually being in bed and being reminded that you're trying to get her to sleep.

The other thing that struck me was that you said she was in daycare. I'm imagining that if you have her in daycare, you NEED to have her in daycare to work (and therefore pay bills), but I'm wondering if that alone isn't making her separation anxiety even worse. I don't know how often she's at daycare, but is there anyway you could cut back on it and maybe switch your hours so that you do more on a couple days and then don't have to do daycare on the others? I know that probably sounds crazy, but if you're a zombie right now, you're probably not getting that much done anyway. You might even get more done in a few days WITH some sleep and sanity than you would in five days without it. I don't mean to sound like I'm coming down on you about the daycare situation, because I know we all gotta do what we gotta do, but I would imagine that that's where she also got some of these illnesses. If you can (repeat, IF) you can, cutting back on daycare might bring some healthiness and happiness (and hopefully sleep) back into the picture. And the other thing that I wonder about is this: in theory, it's awesome that you can visit her and nurse her whenever you want and do many times a day, but perhaps her having to go through the actual physical separation process many times throughout the day is making it harder. This is totally just conjecture on my part and in fact, it could possibly be worse if you weren't able to nurse and visit her throughout the day - I'm just trying to throw out some ideas in case any of them hit home with you.

Please take all of this with a grain of salt - I have no idea the specific details of your situation, but I just wanted to at least offer you something in case it makes you think of something you hadn't thought about before.

Also, I think it's wonderful that you are such a responsive mama and you are reading your DD and not pressing her to do something that she's not up for. I also think that once a few of the issues get better (illness, separation, molars), you'll know when the time is right and when she's ready for trying again. It does sound pretty chaotic right now.

I don't know if any of this helped, but I hope things get better for you really soon


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## mom2tatum (Mar 14, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *terpgirl23* 
OK.. I am replying to my own message and this post might actually be another thread unto itself, but since there are so many mommas here talking about nighttime issues, I thought I would try it here.

As you can see from my posts, we have been toying with the idea of doing this plan. My goal is to start doing this once Boo is better , but I have said this before, so I am not feeling optimistic today. As a matter of fact, it feels like "something" is always coming up that causes the plan to get thwarted. And I truly think I am about to come undone right now.

Background - I am a WOHM full-time, as is my hubby. My Boo is almost 14 months old and is a breastfeed baby. She is at day care, but it's at my campus so I nurse her when I want and see her many times during the day (not sure if this is a good or bad thing - another thread, I supposed). But the nights are hellacious. We went from having a great sleeper (she used to sleep in her crib, first in her room, then in hers, from 8pm to 6am, nurse for a bit adn then go down untl8am again) to a horrible sleeper (she now cosleeps with us and nurses almost every hour. We can't put her down, for naps or night time, without one of us being next to her). I am a zoombie. Really. I now know why they use sleep deprevation techniques as torture - I can barely function. I am trying to be so responsive and respectful of her needs right now, while trying to do the same for me, the the scales are clearly tipped in her favor and I don't know how to fix that. I know she is going through some crazy seperation anxiety stuff and doesn't want anyone, including daddy, at any time. This makes nights particularly hard. She has also not felt well for the last few days, along with getting her last 2 molars. But like I said...there is always "something", at some point, it just has to end.

We tried Dr. Gordon't plan about 3 weeks ago for 4 nights and where having some success with it. THen, illness and whatnot and i went back to nursing her on demand. Well, now I am trying to go back to the plan and it's NOT WORKING. I mean, not just "not working", it's failing misserably. She cries and cries, no matter who's arms she is in. The longest has been a hour and after that, I just gave in and nursed (because frankly I just had to sleep).

I really don't know what to do any more and could advice/ suggestions and some postive words to keep me going.

Have any of you "gone backwards" too? How did you deal with it? Also, several of you have mentioned that you modified the plan a bit to fit your needs. Brainstorm with me - what are some things you did?

Thanks for listening. Mostly I just needed to get this out.









sorry this is happening this way for you guys...thats tough. I really don't have any suggestion, but I know for us, the timing was everything. So maybe just wait it out a little longer, as hard as that is - and then she'll maybe be more receptive to it then.


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Subliime* 
I just found this thread and it is a godsend. We just started the night weaning plan last night and it was horrible. Dd is 14.5 mo and I really feel like it is time for all of us to get some sleep. I've been so drained lately I can't even think and my dh and I are arguing more and more. I just hope my dd is ready. After last night I have my doubts. It took us about 1.5 hrs to get her to go to sleep. At first she was screaming and crying like we were torturing her. Then she calmed down and as long as we were in constant motion she was okay except for on and off crying and whining. I felt like giving in and nursing her but I didn't want to confuse her and I didn't want to re-enforce the crying and such. She went to sleep finally and woke about 30 mins after. I nursed her for a bit and then unlatched her. She made a crying sound and just rolled over and went back to sleep. I have been feeling pretty insecure all day but dd has been doing fine. I'm hoping that tonight isn't that bad. Has anyone else had it this hard the first night or is it just my dd?

I think everyone has a "hard" first night, but I think it's relative to each baby. For example, my DS doe not get upset very easily or for very long, so the fact that he was upset for about 5 minutes straight is probably technically a "hard" night. To me, it sounds like your night wasn't too bad. What I think is great about it is that after you unlatched your DD, she rolled over and went to sleep, so at least something (even if it's just ONE thing) is moving in the right direction. It will be so interesting to see how tonight goes for you because for us, the second night was where I could tell that DS was really starting to get it. Good luck!


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## wendizbaby (Jul 22, 2005)

Just an update on my situation....(the first night went really well for us and I was surprised). Well, the last two nights have not been so easy. My ds was really upset last night (the worst night yet). He cried for at least 40 minutes and no matter what I did, he was not happy. Actually, I didn't try getting out of bed with him, so I will try that tonight. Granted, it only happened once during the night, but it was terrible anyway. I kept telling myself that he doesn't need it....he doesn't need it. He's over 2...his entire life he has been used to immediately getting a boob when he so much as whimpered during the night. He's just used to it, that's all. Also, my son is like this. When he is unhappy, you know it and you better do something about it because he'll keep letting you know.







He has also been extra clingy during the day. I've just given in to having to carry him most of the time (it hasn't been like that since he was about 12 mo.). I really wish that I had it in me to give my son what he wants and go until he weans himself. I didn't mention it earlier, but I have had some increased issues with my periods and I believe it has to do with breastfeeding. This is also helping me get through this because I want to try and clear up whatever is going on with my hormones.
So, on to night #4. Wish me luck!
Wendi


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## mom2tatum (Mar 14, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Subliime* 
I just found this thread and it is a godsend. We just started the night weaning plan last night and it was horrible. Dd is 14.5 mo and I really feel like it is time for all of us to get some sleep. I've been so drained lately I can't even think and my dh and I are arguing more and more. I just hope my dd is ready. After last night I have my doubts. It took us about 1.5 hrs to get her to go to sleep. At first she was screaming and crying like we were torturing her. Then she calmed down and as long as we were in constant motion she was okay except for on and off crying and whining. I felt like giving in and nursing her but I didn't want to confuse her and I didn't want to re-enforce the crying and such. She went to sleep finally and woke about 30 mins after. I nursed her for a bit and then unlatched her. She made a crying sound and just rolled over and went back to sleep. I have been feeling pretty insecure all day but dd has been doing fine. I'm hoping that tonight isn't that bad. Has anyone else had it this hard the first night or is it just my dd?

I must have missed your post before, but anyway when I saw this I had to respond to you to help you feel better. I had a similar experience in the beginning four or five nights. Probably worse than yours actually. He cried in my arms for over two hours the first time he'd wake - until I gave up each night and nursed him for another couple hours while he never really went back to sleep (I think because he got himself all worked up and scared over it happening again???)And, it never seemed to work for us the whole first week or so - us meaning my ds and ME. He wasn't having it - he just regressed and got more angry when I tried other ways to comfort him. No one slept hardly at all and he seemed to feel anxious towards me as evening approached. SO, we decided to try using my dh instead AND in another room so ds wouldn't see me and get so upset that I wouldn't nurse him. It worked pretty much like magic for us - well, much more than I expected it would at least. At first dh picked him up and rocked him back to sleep and then laid him back down. But now if he does wake at all before 5, he just says, "Tatum, lay down, go to sleep" and he tosses and turns a little, but then he does - with no fuss. They co sleep in the other room on a mattress on the floor and now I sleep alone in "our" bed. So, ya know, we just found another way to work it out and we're happy for now! He has been sleeping usually all night though lately and then getting up and walking into "my" room and climbing up to nurse. He nurses for about an hour though and sometimes goes back to sleep and sometimes not.







So, usually after nursing for over an hour, I cannot get myself back to sleep at that point - that's my only complaint at this point. And, I'll take it, trust me! Life with sleep has improved our daytimes so MUCH!

But, I don't know if that is a possibility for your family. I just wanted you to know that we had a REALLY HARD time - more than others have mentioned on this thread (in terms of time spent crying and not sleeping and not being able to go back to sleep without mom's boob). Although like someone else said, a "hard time" is different for everyone.

Follow your instincts and don't be afraid to try various adaptations on the "plan"...


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## terpgirl23 (Oct 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom2tatum* 







sorry this is happening this way for you guys...thats tough. I really don't have any suggestion, but I know for us, the timing was everything. So maybe just wait it out a little longer, as hard as that is - and then she'll maybe be more receptive to it then.


You know what, you are so right. I just had this great conversation with another momma and she really helped me get some perspective on this. I am trying to go with the flow a bit more. Boo is not ready right now and I think that's key. So...I am planning on putting this off just a bit, until she is a little more ready. And, we will try again, but if on the second (third, fourth..) attempt, she is still not ready, that's OK.

Thanks for sharing.


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Just a quick (ha ha) update... we're in the thick of teething (one of the front, top teeth is breaking the surface and one of the canines) and I was always curious how the whole night-weaning thing would pan out during this time - the whole "I don't want to lose my best tool for teething" (the breast) argument.

Well, DS has been waking 2-5 times a night the past week or so, which seems to be a little less than he was waking with teething PRE night-weaning, so I'm thinking that night weaning has actually helped him to sleep longer EVEN through teething. And, I am still able to NOT nurse him when he wakes and he goes back to sleep within a minute (whereas it's usually about 30 seconds). When he wakes, he has one of those pained cries (poor guy), but a little back, belly or buns rub and he's out again. The only time that's tough is around 5am - he has a really hard time falling (or being massaged) back to sleep. This morning, he sounded like he was in more pain than usual, so I gave him the breast. He nursed for a long time and then fell back to sleep until 6:20am.

So, overall, teething with night-weaning is a lot easier than I expected it would be (granted, we haven't hit molars yet). I thought DS would be crying each time he woke up until I gave him the breast, therefore putting us back at square one, but aside from that 5am waking, it's basically just like normal. And, I remember at the beginning of this thread, we were talking about if it was worth it to night-wean since DS still has a lot of teething to go, and my answer now, is 100% for sure YES YES YES! Before this week, I had been feeling so well-rested (relatively, of course!) that I think that's the only thing that's making me not feel depleted right now when the wakings are more frequent. Not to mention that it's easier for me to massage a baby to sleep for one minute than to be nursing on my side for however long.

BTW - yesterday at a class that DS and I go to, I was talking to one of the other moms and night-weaning came up and she said, "I could tell something was up because you look a lot more rested!" It felt good to be assured that getting more sleep is having visible results too (I was also wearing those aforementioned new jeans though, maybe that was it?)! But it also made me realize that my attempts to look well-rested before were not exactly working. So much for that eye cream that reduces puffiness and bags under the eyes.

Oh and about the milk supply/DS barfing thing - it comes and goes still. My milk has definitely figured out what our schedule is now and if I make sure to feed DS both boobs when we go to bed around 10:30pm, they feel totally empty and then are not engorged in the am. Still, I usually give DS one side (the faster, fuller side) first and hope that he falls asleep and then has the other one upon waking as to not give him too much milk at once, but sometimes he gets both because he won't go back to sleep or is tossing and turning after the first boob and sometimes he is fine and sometimes he does barf (or does a HUGE burp). I think the teething has made his stomach more sensitive too because we've had more barfs recently than we did before.

Sorry for the novel here! Just wanted to check in and let you know about our progress. I hope everyone's doing well with whichever route they've taken


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## terpgirl23 (Oct 30, 2007)

happy2bamama said:


> Okay, I found a quick second... I really don't have any brilliant ideas for you, sadly. I keep thinking about your situation and trying to think what I would do in your shoes... two things come to mind - one is, when she's crying at night in your arms (or DH's), do you guys walk around with her or just stay in bed? ./QUOTE]
> 
> We do it all! Lie down, rock, walk, dance, snuggle, sling....whatever it takes.
> 
> ...


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## wendizbaby (Jul 22, 2005)

Hi fellow night-weaning mamas!!
Well, I just wanted to update as well. We are on night #9 (tonight) and I am starting to wonder when he will resolve to not getting the boob during the night. He is much easier to console, in fact, even when he's NOT easy to console, he's not crying and thrashing around anymore. He'll just sort of lie there and move around. For this, I usually grab him and lay him on top of me and give him a snug hug while stroking his back. Anyway, we are still having two wakings...at 1am and 4am(ish). When he wakes up after 5am, I breastfeed him back to sleep.
So, will this get better? Do they eventually forget about getting fed at night?

Wendi


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## Subliime (Mar 24, 2007)

Okay, I have a question, or some questions. About a week ago I guess, I posted on here about night one with my dd and how she cried for 2 hrs until she finally went back to sleep. Well, the next few nights after that went very smoothly until we transitioned to the 2nd stage. She was up for 4 hrs and then I fianlly ended up nursing her, but not to sleep. She went to sleep on her own shortly after nursing. The past few nights haven't been too bad. She's gone to sleep after rocking and singing but not for long. She is still waking constantly throughout the night, except now that I'm not nursing her to sleep it's even harder. My dh and I are exhausted. Last night was night 8 I think, and we decided to move on to the 3rd stage since we were so exhausted from rocking her all night, plus she seemed to be ready to move on. It was okay except that she woke up all night still. She would fall asleep for maybe 10mins and I would get relieved and then she would wake up again and do the same thing over and over all night long. I got a whopping 1hr of sleep this morning before she woke up at 5:30 and I nursed her she seemed to think it was time to get up. I need some encouragement. I'm beginning to wish I hadn't started this whole thing and that I could be content with letting her do it on her own time. I don't want to stop now though, I would definatly feel like the past week was for nothing. Any advice mamas? My dh and I are sooo tired and are not being nice to each other at night. This is definatly the most challanging thing I've ever done. In fact, our night time issues are the whole reason my dh does not want to have ANY more children.


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Subliime* 
Okay, I have a question, or some questions. About a week ago I guess, I posted on here about night one with my dd and how she cried for 2 hrs until she finally went back to sleep. Well, the next few nights after that went very smoothly until we transitioned to the 2nd stage. She was up for 4 hrs and then I fianlly ended up nursing her, but not to sleep. She went to sleep on her own shortly after nursing. The past few nights haven't been too bad. She's gone to sleep after rocking and singing but not for long. She is still waking constantly throughout the night, except now that I'm not nursing her to sleep it's even harder. My dh and I are exhausted. Last night was night 8 I think, and we decided to move on to the 3rd stage since we were so exhausted from rocking her all night, plus she seemed to be ready to move on. It was okay except that she woke up all night still. She would fall asleep for maybe 10mins and I would get relieved and then she would wake up again and do the same thing over and over all night long. I got a whopping 1hr of sleep this morning before she woke up at 5:30 and I nursed her she seemed to think it was time to get up. I need some encouragement. I'm beginning to wish I hadn't started this whole thing and that I could be content with letting her do it on her own time. I don't want to stop now though, I would definatly feel like the past week was for nothing. Any advice mamas? My dh and I are sooo tired and are not being nice to each other at night. This is definatly the most challanging thing I've ever done. In fact, our night time issues are the whole reason my dh does not want to have ANY more children.

I just have a quick second, but wanted to post with my 2 cents since it sounds like you're at the end of your rope with this... it sounds to me like it's not the right time for your DD. If you want to night-wean in the gentlest way, then I would suggest that you wait until things are better and start then. I would imagine that if you stuck to it for a few more weeks or possibly months (?), it would probably end up working, but it doesn't sound like it would be very gentle on any of you.

I know what you mean about not wanting to stop now that you've started this far, but if it isn't working, it isn't working and there's no use in making it worse for all just for the sake of sticking to it (think Iraq war here). The good news is that by stopping, I don't think you will be losing everything you've gained. If you decide to try this again, your DD will have already had experience with not having the breast when waking, so that will probably come back really fast.

I am so sorry it's been exhausting for you guys. You might find that once you stop, your DD might sleep better because she won't be worried about if she's going to be able to nurse or not. Just a thought, who knows? I wish you the best and hang in there


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## lillyfire (Jun 9, 2007)

Thanks for posting your experiences with this. We're planning on starting night weaning with our 17 mo ds next weekend after we get back from vacation. It's nice to see that even if it's up and down, some people are definitely having successes.


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lillyfire* 
Thanks for posting your experiences with this. We're planning on starting night weaning with our 17 mo ds next weekend after we get back from vacation. It's nice to see that even if it's up and down, some people are definitely having successes.

Wow, pulled out of the archives! Good luck with the night weaning - it can be a long process, but hopefully you'll see some results pretty quickly. Or at least enough to get your some rest









On a side note - we were doing well with the nightweaning, then some teeth and a cold came through, so I wasn't being so firm about it, but we've been back on for a bit now and were doing good - DS only waking up at 11pm-ish and then 4:45am, but then... it got even better!!







Two nights ago, DS didn't wake up for his 11pm feed, so I just let it go and when he woke up around 1am, I just laid him back down and he fell right back to sleep - no crying or anything!! I was totally shocked because I figured he "needed" this feed to get him through the night. I nursed him again at 4:45am-ish (I don't think this feeding can go yet) and I couldn't believe DS had basically slept through the night. Then, last night, I decided that if DS woke up at 11pm, I would lay him back down and we'd try to get rid of this 11pm feeding all together. I figured we were on a roll and he seemed okay the night before, so why not? It worked again and he slept through the night again until 4:45 again. It feels so good, but sadly, I don't feel super rested yet. I guess 17 months of crappy sleep doesn't just go away with one night of semi-decent sleep, huh? I am aware of the fact that this current, sweet pattern might change with more teeth (still no molars) and colds, but to know that he CAN go that long without waking is priceless.

I hope it's going well for everyone else too!


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## lillyfire (Jun 9, 2007)

Yeah, I can't remember who posted the link to this thread, but someone did and I had to check it out. I'm so glad to hear that things are still going pretty well. Those teeth are a major pain aren't they?! DS has all but a lower canine and his 2year molars. Those canines do seem to take a while to come through, but not as bad as the first molars. I do worry that even once he's sleeping longer that I won't be. Sometimes I can't fall asleep until he wakes up and I pull him up into bed with us. Could be the nursing hormones or it could just be knowing that he'll probably wake up as soon as I fall asleep. Thanks for the good wishes. I'll let you know how it goes in a week or so. It was also reassuring to hear that many people were not doing the last couple of stages of the plan, as I wasn't sure about those either.


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## Keirasmommy (Jan 17, 2008)

Hey just wanted to let you all know that DD has STTN for the past 2 nights! We finally decided to cut the last morning feed which I was doing at around 5 or 5:30 am. And for some reason that made the difference! She is still getting up earlier than usual, but she is sleeping from 9-5 without waking me up! She still has some trouble in the beginning of the night (but I think this is b/c she starts in her own bed and at her first wakening between 9 and 10:30 she comes to bed with us) and still sleeps very restlessly from 5 until 6 am. But, I am thrilled with it! I of course still feel tired, but I know a few more nights will make a difference. And I know she still needs canines and 2 yr molars, so there will be disruptions, but I'm so happy







!


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## katie&micah (May 16, 2005)

Tonight is going to be my first attempt at night weaning. After DD getting up 8-12 times the last 3 nights I am desperate for some sleep. She's a very stubborn girl, so hopefully this isn't too rough on either of us.


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## Massagemamma (Nov 1, 2006)

I am so excited for this post too. Does anyone have the original site for "the plan". I read it once and have been getting closer and closer to following through with it. My 15 month old daughter is still waking up every hour and VERY demanding for "mommies" going right to screaming.

My question.....do daddies have to stay in bed and comfort baby for the first couple of nights or should I kick him out of bed to try to get SOME sleep the first couple of nights? I don't want to have to deal with a grumpy daddy AND grumpy baby the next day.


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## justthinkn (Apr 11, 2008)

http://www.drjaygordon.com/development/ap/sleep.asp

At first I thought DH would need to be the one doing this. But then I thought about it, and on desperate nights where I've passed DD to DH, she's gotten hysterical. On a desperate night or two where I've "closed up shop" after already nursing for what felt like waaaay too long, DD has pawed around at me grunting a little, then gone calmly to sleep.

So my take now is that whenever we do this, it'll probably be me with DH told to feel free to move to the couch if he needs to - I think DD will feel more comforted by my presence even if I'm not nursing her. One change as opposed to two...


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## katie&micah (May 16, 2005)

Last night was our first night attempting to night wean. It went SO much better than I anticipated. DH slept on the couch so he could get some sleep.

I nursed DD at 8:30pm when putting her down for the night. She normally wakes up around 10 to nurse, but didn't. At 12:30 she woke up and was pissed. She cried really hard for about 5 minutes, fell asleep for a couple minutes and then repeated this. This kept repeating for an hour, but each time she woke up she would cry for less time. Eventually it was just one cry and then back to sleep. She woke up again at 2:30, cried for about 30 seconds and then went back to sleep until 4:00. I nursed her at that point and she went back to sleep until 7:00 when she nursed both sides and got up for the day. The first hour was hard, but it really wasn't too bad since I went into the night with a plan. I've heard that the 2nd night is often harder than the 1st, so wish us luck tonight!


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Massagemamma* 
I am so excited for this post too. Does anyone have the original site for "the plan". I read it once and have been getting closer and closer to following through with it. My 15 month old daughter is still waking up every hour and VERY demanding for "mommies" going right to screaming.

My question.....do daddies have to stay in bed and comfort baby for the first couple of nights or should I kick him out of bed to try to get SOME sleep the first couple of nights? I don't want to have to deal with a grumpy daddy AND grumpy baby the next day.

Like justthinkn, my DS really didn't want DH, he still wanted me, milk or no milk. I would massage his back or whisper a song in his ear to calm him down. DH would try to help by snuggling DS, but he'd try to get away. My DS would (and still does) sit up when he wakes up and so I will lay him down and put his head next to my pillow (instead of my breast) because that way if he tries to root around, at least there's something soft and squishy there. DS actually likes to fall asleep with his face next to the pillow now.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *katie&micah* 
Last night was our first night attempting to night wean. It went SO much better than I anticipated. DH slept on the couch so he could get some sleep.

I nursed DD at 8:30pm when putting her down for the night. She normally wakes up around 10 to nurse, but didn't. At 12:30 she woke up and was pissed. She cried really hard for about 5 minutes, fell asleep for a couple minutes and then repeated this. This kept repeating for an hour, but each time she woke up she would cry for less time. Eventually it was just one cry and then back to sleep. She woke up again at 2:30, cried for about 30 seconds and then went back to sleep until 4:00. I nursed her at that point and she went back to sleep until 7:00 when she nursed both sides and got up for the day. The first hour was hard, but it really wasn't too bad since I went into the night with a plan. I've heard that the 2nd night is often harder than the 1st, so wish us luck tonight!

I'm not sure about others, but our second night (and every night thereafter) was better. For us, I think the first night was the hardest because it was the first time he'd ever been denied milk in the middle of the night. Once he knew that that was a possibility, it wasn't such a shock on the rest of the nights. Good luck!


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## Massagemamma (Nov 1, 2006)

thanks for the info and the encouragment mommies. Now all I need is an alarm clock that i can see in the dark and its go time.


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## katie&micah (May 16, 2005)

I'm completely shocked at how fast this is working!!

Night #2 was almost painless

Nursed her to sleep at 7pm. She woke up at 10pm, never cried and went immediately back to sleep as soon as I picked her up. Same thing at 10:30. Then at 12:30 she woke up and put herself back to sleep before I could even get into the bedroom. At 2:00 she cried for about 45 seconds before falling back to sleep. At 2:45am I nursed her. Up again at 4:30, nursed and then slept until 8:30 when I nursed her again and got up for the day. I think I could have gotten away with 1 nursing if she hadn't gone to bed so early and slept so late. I am now REALLY excited to see how tonight goes!! This is fabulous. Way better than the normal 5 or 6 nursing sessions each night. She also seems to be sleeping deeper than she ever has before.


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## PapayaVagina (May 11, 2002)

I was just logging on to get some help with this.

We have been doing this plan for the last 6 weeks. Really, for the most part it has been a godsend. Dd was previously waking up at least every 45 minutes and I was absolutely desperate.

She responded really well for the most part (wakes up 2-3 times before the sun comes up but usually goes back to sleep fairly easily) but if I only do the 7 hours like he suggests she reverts back to waking up more often. If I try to hold off on nursing her until the sun comes up (so we're talking maybe 8-5) things go better.

BUT, then about 4 weeks into it she started waking up around 3:30-5-ish totally ballistic - screaming, crying for "bubbies," hitting, kicking, refusing to be held, talked to, sung to, snuggled, etc. I've offered sips of water which she also refuses. She spends anywhere from 30 minutes to several hours doing this until she finally goes back to sleep (usually lying on top of me but will not let me touch her at all). She's not teething and nothing has changed. The last few days have been really tough. The only solution we have found is to have dh take her into another room and rock her back to sleep until the sun goes up or it will go on for hours. Like I said, if I do nurse her then immediately the next night we revert back to waking up more often.

I don't know what's worse...waking up every 45 minutes or basically getting up at 3:30 in the morning every day.

Anyone have any suggestions?


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## katie&micah (May 16, 2005)

Night #3 Sucked!

Nursed her down at 8:30. Up hysterically screaming at 1:30. Cried and cried and cried until this tired Mama (who was stupid and went to bed at 12:30) finally nursed her. Then got up at 5:00am for the day (nursed her again then).

I really hope tonight is better. I'm exhausted.


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PapayaVagina* 
BUT, then about 4 weeks into it she started waking up around 3:30-5-ish totally ballistic - screaming, crying for "bubbies," hitting, kicking, refusing to be held, talked to, sung to, snuggled, etc. I've offered sips of water which she also refuses.

Maybe she's hungry rather than thirsty? Maybe a snack instead of sips of water would work.


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## katie&micah (May 16, 2005)

Night #4

I nursed DD down at 10pm. She woke up at 2:00 and cried for about 10 minutes before she settled back down. Next time she woke up was 7:30am!!! We actually went the whole night w/o nursing!


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *katie&micah* 
Night #4

I nursed DD down at 10pm. She woke up at 2:00 and cried for about 10 minutes before she settled back down. Next time she woke up was 7:30am!!! We actually went the whole night w/o nursing!

Glad to hear that it went better on night four







Isn't it awesome to at least know that she CAN go that long without nursing? Once my DS started sleeping longer stretches - especially the really long stretches (which are rare) - it made me so much less stressed about the whole thing because I didn't worry if he was hungry or that it wasn't "natural" for him to sleep that long without nursing. Keep up the good work


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## katie&micah (May 16, 2005)

Thanks!

It is great to know that she has the ability to go that long w/o nursing.

Night 5 included tons of nursing, because I was too exhausted to put forth any effort. Tonight we try again!


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## Bunnybee (Jan 16, 2007)

I'm thinking of trying this soon. I was wondering if your breasts get really engorged when you reduce the night nursing?


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bunnybee* 
I'm thinking of trying this soon. I was wondering if your breasts get really engorged when you reduce the night nursing?

Personally, I didn't really get engorged - like painful or anything - but like I posted previously, when DS would feed in the AM, they were REALLY full and so the amount of milk caused him to barf for a few days or so. But, it really comes in goes in terms of waking and nursing - it's not like DS never nurses at night anymore, it's just pretty rare. So, being that it's been so gradual, my breasts have acclimated


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## amandaleigh37 (Jul 13, 2006)

I tried this method about 2 months ago, with my DS who was 18 mos at the time. It worked great. We got to about day 4 and he was going back to sleep very easily without nursing, just cuddling. My breasts did feel full in the mornings, but I didn't worry about it. Then one day I felt nauseated and dizzy, ended up having mastitis







Man it sucked. So I've been afraid to try it again since then.


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## katie&micah (May 16, 2005)

My breasts felt a little full for the first 3 or 4 days. Since then they've been fine. Of course, Maddy has started nursing a ton after I allow her to eat. So if she went down at 7 and I decide she can eat at 2am, she'll nurse a bunch from 2-7am.


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## mkmoro311 (Oct 23, 2006)

Does napping and allowing your LO to feed conflict with this theory?


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## mom2tatum (Mar 14, 2007)

I thought I executed a perfect nightweaning plan, mostly based on Jay Gordon's, but adapted a little (I posted here a long time ago, back with happy2bamama) and until two months ago it worked great. He got really really sick and I needed to nurse him many many times throughout the night, it would have been neglectful and IMO abusive if I had refused. Well, after the fever went a few days later, the night waking stayed = two or three times. He didn't go so easily with us down the nightweaning path for the second time. I mean cried and thrashed for hours until each time I nursed him ie gave in, I guess. But, come on? WTH? So, here we are again, just turned two and nursing at least twice, usually three times through the night (and this is also after a transition to his own bed and room which he had been fine with before). So DH sleeps on the floor next to his mattress and he is mostly ok with it, but why can't the plan work again? Dh brings him to me through the night and again our sleeping arrangements are anything but normal with really no end in sight. AHHHH!

What's a mommy to do? He has seemed more needy in general and I don't know if its due to him giving up napping (going on two months as well), or his language skills blowing up like crazy during this time also, or DH going back to work, or him not eating food as much lately and being hungry/thirsty. WHO KNOWS? But, I am once again becoming stressed and tired over this.

Should I stick it out and force him to be so upset through the night? OR should I wait a little longer and see if its just a needy phase that will pass? And, how long is too long for him to cry and scream in others' opinions?


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## SallyN (Feb 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom2tatum* 
What's a mommy to do? He has seemed more needy in general and I don't know if its due to him giving up napping (going on two months as well), or his language skills blowing up like crazy during this time also, or DH going back to work, or him not eating food as much lately and being hungry/thirsty. WHO KNOWS? But, I am once again becoming stressed and tired over this.

I'd go with e) all of the above.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom2tatum* 
Should I stick it out and force him to be so upset through the night? OR should I wait a little longer and see if its just a needy phase that will pass? And, how long is too long for him to cry and scream in others' opinions?

Personally, I'd stick it out a little longer to let him get through all of the transitions you listed above. As for the crying and screaming... technically it's not CIO if the child is being tended to. If you're holding/rocking/snuggling/etc and child is crying, many would say that that is okay. You need to decide how you feel about it. You ARE allowed to set boundaries. If you've reached the point where you're no longer on board with nursing at night, barring extenuating circumstances, your toddler IS capable of learning other ways of being soothed (or self-soothing.) Remember that toddlers are different than infants - their wants aren't ALWAYS their needs (though they may think they are.)


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom2tatum* 
I thought I executed a perfect nightweaning plan, mostly based on Jay Gordon's, but adapted a little (I posted here a long time ago, back with happy2bamama) and until two months ago it worked great. He got really really sick and I needed to nurse him many many times throughout the night, it would have been neglectful and IMO abusive if I had refused. Well, after the fever went a few days later, the night waking stayed = two or three times. He didn't go so easily with us down the nightweaning path for the second time. I mean cried and thrashed for hours until each time I nursed him ie gave in, I guess. But, come on? WTH? So, here we are again, just turned two and nursing at least twice, usually three times through the night (and this is also after a transition to his own bed and room which he had been fine with before). So DH sleeps on the floor next to his mattress and he is mostly ok with it, but why can't the plan work again? Dh brings him to me through the night and again our sleeping arrangements are anything but normal with really no end in sight. AHHHH!

What's a mommy to do? He has seemed more needy in general and I don't know if its due to him giving up napping (going on two months as well), or his language skills blowing up like crazy during this time also, or DH going back to work, or him not eating food as much lately and being hungry/thirsty. WHO KNOWS? But, I am once again becoming stressed and tired over this.

Should I stick it out and force him to be so upset through the night? OR should I wait a little longer and see if its just a needy phase that will pass? And, how long is too long for him to cry and scream in others' opinions?

Hi again! I'm sorry to hear that things have reverted for you guys. That happened to us too a few months back when DS got sick. It took a while to get back on track, but we are (for the most part). DS is cutting some killer teeth right now, so he is still waking at night, but we're just not nursing when he does until 4am or so. I try to comfort him back to sleep and he'll go back down after a few seconds to a few minutes of fussing.

To answer you question about what to do... first of all, I commend you for allowing him to nurse when he was sick. I know from personal experience that it is soooo hard when you've come so far with the nightweaning and you know that you could risk it all by "giving in" and nursing. But yeah, sometimes they really do NEED us. So good work Mama!

This is just my .02, but I would figure out what kind of fussing/crying is going on. Is it like he's just upset because he really wants milk or is he beside himself with fear or something like that (which I find hard to believe since you're right there with him, but you never know)? I think it all depends upon how fed up you are (or aren't). For me personally, I cannot take nursing at night right now since DS wants to be on the breast a ton more during the day with this teething. I NEED my nipples to have a break and so I am still okay with setting those boundaries.

If you are at your wit's end, I think you should explore the possibility of really being firm about the nightweaning. Like a pp said, at this age, their wants aren't necessarily their needs. And, as hard as it is to do (especially when they are upset), it should be okay for you to set some limits. It's not like you're saying, "I don't want to nurse you because I'm busy watching TV..." or something else semi-pointless (I do love some TV though!), you are asking for sleep - much-needed and vital to your health and sanity SLEEP! Not vanity sleep, but sanity sleep!

Of course, you should go with your gut on this. But, Dr. Gordon told me something that I think makes sense - when I was a little apprehensive about nightweaning, he said something that spoke to the fact that we have raised DS in such a loving, attached way that he will be fine with it - we've raised him to be the kind of kid that will be okay with it. You can't really undo a year-and-a-half's worth of love, kisses, security and confidence in a few nights of saying no to nursing. But jeez, it sure can feel like it in the moment, huh?!

HTH and good luck!


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## MamaTrisha (Jun 19, 2008)

I am new here and so glad I joined! I needed advice on this topic so badly.
My little girl just turned 2 on the 25th and we share our family bed.
She goes for periods of a few weeks where she will nurse to sleep, then sleep 12 hours and get up in the morning. Then she only wants to nurse to take a nap. Other times, she wants to spend an hour nursing at night, then wake me every 1-2 hours all night so she can nurse. I spend a lot of time as a zombie!

Letting her cry is not an option, not soothing her is not an option, and other tricks just weren't working. I was kind of resolved to just having her weaned by college!

I am going to start working on some of these ideas and methods and see what happens!


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaTrisha* 
I am new here and so glad I joined! I needed advice on this topic so badly.
My little girl just turned 2 on the 25th and we share our family bed.
She goes for periods of a few weeks where she will nurse to sleep, then sleep 12 hours and get up in the morning. Then she only wants to nurse to take a nap. Other times, she wants to spend an hour nursing at night, then wake me every 1-2 hours all night so she can nurse. I spend a lot of time as a zombie!

Letting her cry is not an option, not soothing her is not an option, and other tricks just weren't working. I was kind of resolved to just having her weaned by college!

I am going to start working on some of these ideas and methods and see what happens!

Welcome and good luck!


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## mexicali mami (Mar 24, 2007)

just another mama on the nightweaning path, loving this thread and all the great tips! I wanted to share one tip a friend gave me that sometimes works. My kiddo is not a big fan of my singing, patting, or even rocking...BUT he will listen to me whisper the great things we are going to do when he wakes up. I talk to him about going to the beach, playing in the pool, kicking the ball, and looking for the kitty cat and of course all of the chi chi he will be drinking all day long.

We have been on and off night weaning for a few weeks, we have had successes and failures and I guess overall its getting better. I have a 3am wakeup call that I just can't seem to break and the reactions vary from hours of crying and thrashing himself around the bed/house and mild wimpers before a roll over back to sleep. Lately it's been more of a thrash around and freak out until I give in and decided to nurse for five minutes and go back to sleep instead of waking up the whole house and feeling like a zombie the next day. I know its confusing for him and probably not the best technique but I think eventually we'll get there. I think I'll try the DH technique this weekend and see what happens, take myself out of the picture for one night. That is of course if I can convince him that it can work


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## feministmom (Feb 11, 2007)

I keep thinking about nightweaning, but I can't seem to JUST DO IT!! I always have an excuse....and I think if I keep waiting for the "right" time, it will never happen.

A little background...my DD is 19.5 months. She's an okay sleeper...never been great, but not completely horrible either. I nurse her to sleep in her own bed in her room...bed time completely varies. I have not had the drive to establish a solid routine, mostly because my husband commutes almost 2 hours away. Mon/Fri he comes home "early" around 7, Tues/Thurs he works late and often won't get home until 9 or 10. Wed he works from home. I work full-time and M/W/F DD goes to daycare and T/Th she's with one of her grandmothers. She generally naps between 12 and 2, but has never napped well for my mom, so every tuesday her "schedule" gets thrown off by a too-late nap. With all these variables in the routine, it's hard to get a solid bedtime. DD is very strong willed and will only fall asleep when she's ready. If she's not ready, I could do all the nursing, rocking, etc to no avail. I've given that up....when she's ready, it generally only takes 10-30 minutes to nurse her down.

She usually wakes up 2-3 hours after going to sleep. Sometimes, I can get her back to sleep by rocking and shushing. Last night, she went to bed at 9:30, woke up at midnight, I brought her into our bed (like always) but she was able to get back to sleep without nursing. Like clockwork, she wakes up at 4:44 am to nurse...I'm so tired by that point that some of this may not be accurate, but I think she usually snooze-nurses for a while (on both sides) before going back sleep and then nurses again around 6:30, when she probably gets woken up by DH's alarm.

So, here are my dilemmas:

Since she starts out the night in her own bed, I think if I bring her in our bed, she'll keep waking up for that, even if she's not waking up to nurse. I guess I don't want to replace nursing with some other disruptive routine. She never just comes in our room--she waits in her bed for us to come get her. But I think sleeping in our bed makes her wake up less....like if I nurse her back down in her bed in the middle of the night, she'll wake up again 2 hours later. But if I bring her in our bed, she'll sleep for 4 hours before asking to nurse again. I think my preference would be to get her sleeping for until her 4:44 am nursing in her own bed...but I want to do what will work best to get her/me sleeping more.

Also, I think she may be working on her 2-year molars (last teeth!! yay!!!) but I have no idea how long they will take to come in....part of me wants to wait until she's all done with teething to nightwean, but for all I know, that could be another year.

I know that was a lot and no one will have any magic answers, but it feels good just to write it all down and read/sub the thread...I've gotten a lot of good ideas and have lots to think about and talk about with DH....thanks for listening!!!!!


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## MamaTrisha (Jun 19, 2008)

Well, so far, so bad. It isn't working. She has no idea why mom isn't giving out the goods and her little feelings get so hurt.
This is such a frustrating situation because no one is sleeping anymore.


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaTrisha* 
Well, so far, so bad. It isn't working. She has no idea why mom isn't giving out the goods and her little feelings get so hurt.
This is such a frustrating situation because no one is sleeping anymore.

Sorry to hear that.







How many nights have you tried? How long does she get upset for?

Hugs


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## MamaTrisha (Jun 19, 2008)

Well, we started trying some of these things before I found this thread, then around the time I found this thread, I tried more things. So, in all, about 3-4 weeks total.
How long she is upset varies. I can't let her totally melt down, so I have to step in and do something. Sometimes, after a few minutes, I can get her to take her water cup and go to sleep, but only sometimes.
She usually cries and breaks my heart. The other night she told me, "Mama, Kenna berry sad." It broke my heart!! A little while later, she told me, "Mama, Kenna not berry sad anymore."
She doesn't like this.
How do I deal with that? I mean, maybe she really just isn't ready to wean. I would give anything for my little girl, and if she has to nurse another 1000 years, I will do it, but it's rough and I am having such a struggle.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happy2bamama* 
Sorry to hear that.







How many nights have you tried? How long does she get upset for?

Hugs


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaTrisha* 
Well, we started trying some of these things before I found this thread, then around the time I found this thread, I tried more things. So, in all, about 3-4 weeks total.
How long she is upset varies. I can't let her totally melt down, so I have to step in and do something. Sometimes, after a few minutes, I can get her to take her water cup and go to sleep, but only sometimes.
She usually cries and breaks my heart. The other night she told me, "Mama, Kenna berry sad." It broke my heart!! A little while later, she told me, "Mama, Kenna not berry sad anymore."
She doesn't like this.
How do I deal with that? I mean, maybe she really just isn't ready to wean. I would give anything for my little girl, and if she has to nurse another 1000 years, I will do it, but it's rough and I am having such a struggle.

Oh man, yeah, that's hard when she's telling you that she's sad. I don't blame you for struggling with this. One thing that's on your side here is the fact that your DD can verbally communicate with you AND understand you. I would imagine you've already gone this route, but in case not, have you tried talking to her about it during the day and/or before she goes to bed? Something like, "Mama needs to get a lot of sleep at night so she can have energy to play and go to fun places with you during the day. Can you try to help me with that?" and then explain how if she wakes up, you will put her back to sleep quickly so that you can get more sleep? Or what about the idea of telling her she can nurse when the sun comes up (I've heard that one used a lot)? It's just an idea, but if she's talked to you about it, perhaps when it happens at night, she won't be so upset because she at least knows why. But I know, toddlers aren't really ready to be rational in the middle of the night (or ever, sometimes)!

Also, I know you said that you don't want to let her melt down and that term means different things to each of us, so I'm not exactly sure what that means to you, but I would say for us, DS did melt down and yes, it was really hard to not "give in," but I had my eye on the prize of getting more sleep and in turn, being a better mama to him. The first night, he only melted for about 5 minutes or so, but DH was holding him and walking with him and then I rubbed him and whispered a song to him to sleep. In order for this to work, I hate to say it, but I think some kind of melt down is inevitable. I would not have been comfortable if DS had gone on for much longer, but like I've said before, DS knew he was safe and loved and in our arms. That's the only reason why I can even semi-condone the meltdown. It's very different than being left alone. And, I also think that the child will feed off of your confidence (or lack thereof). It's not easy to keep your wits about you when doing this, but in my opinion and experience, if I can keep calm and keep singing to DS and rubbing him without being overtly nervous or wavering and just focus on how much I love him and try to send that love and comfort to him, he settles in pretty easily. He knows that he can trust me and this case is no different.

I think all in all, you have to figure out how at the end of your rope you are with the night wakings. If you can tolerate them and your DD is upset with the night weaning process, then perhaps you should try again at a later time. But, if you are losing your mind and it's affecting your parenting during the day and your sanity, that's something else and if you can see the bigger picture - you stomaching a couple of meltdowns in order to gain happier days (and nights), then it might be worth it to you. That's all up to you, which I know is hard and I feel for ya.

And again, I've said this before too - for me, it was about establishing boundaries. There have been other, non-nighttime boundaries I've had to establish too and it doesn't get any easier saying no (like when DS wants to keep watching TV or dump crackers everywhere). So I'm just saying that even though your DD "doesn't like this," it doesn't mean that you're necessarily making the wrong choice. And, if you can find a way to talk her through her feelings, that might also help with the night weaning, if you still want to do it. My DS doesn't like having his diaper changed, but it is a necessity and so I do all I can to comfort him, acknowledge his feelings and distract him to get him to stay still for 2 seconds. The question is, is night weaning a necessity for you? I really think that once you answer that question, you'll be able to move forward with confidence in either direction.

I hope any of this helped. Follow your heart and good luck


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## Meems (Jan 8, 2007)

i've been lurking here and following everyone's stories. i have done an abbreviated and tweaked version of JG's plan. basically, i just wanted my 17 mo to drop one feeding (the 12:30-1:30a one). it worked! now DD does wake me promptly at 3-3:30am (my time was 9:30p-3:30a, i know, only 6 hrs but i didn't want to push b/c of her age and the fact that she was used to nursing ~4 times a night). anyhow, she is now nursing sometimes 3 times after 3:30, but the last one is when we wake up. the only prob is that w/ the few nights of being awake an hr rocking back to sleep (remarkably didn't cry!!) we sleep later... thus pushing back the nap time... then bed time..... so we're a little off but that's ok.

just thought i'd share.


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## Shelsi (Apr 4, 2005)

Does everyone on this thread co-sleep? Dd is in a crib in our room (and I'll be honest, she'd be in her own room if we had an extra bedroom). She won't co-sleep, she's up all night if I try. In the beginning of the night she can put herself to sleep. Tonight was an excellent example: she had a bath, then PJ's, I nursed her, and then we sat and read a story, then turned the lights out and put her in her crib. Then she babbled for a few moments and then fell asleep. She can't put herself back to sleep in the middle of the night though without nursing first.

A few things:
1) first off she has never nursed to sleep. She does not comfort nurse. OTOH she doesn't take other comfort very well. If she wakes in the night and I am holding her she will be going nuts trying to nurse.
2) I know that the first thing she will do if I don't nurse her and don't pick her up since I think picking her up will make her really mad, is that she will throw her little body down. Then she'll stand up, still crying, and probably start banging her head on the crib which is something she also does when happy. She does it HARD and sometimes gives herself a bruise. I'm worried she'll do it really badly if she's upset. Next, she'll start throwing her pacifiers and she'll drop them between the crib and the wall where she knows it's hard for us to retrieve them.
3) she's got growth issues which I believe are related to all her food allergies. But then I'm reading in this thread that all the night waking (every 2 hours usually) can cause growth issues too. Still I'm worried about cutting out calories. She's not even on the growth chart right now and hasn't gained any weight in 6 mos.
4) we've got a lot of stuff coming up including a move. OTOH I've been waiting forever for the "right" time. First dh was deployed and I didn't want to do all this on my own, then I knew we were moving, then I thought she was teething. Now she is finally teething but it's only her first tooth and I'm not going to wait until they are all in!
5) I'm tired. Like really tired. I have fainting spells and the room just goes dark several times a day for me. I have no energy. I haven't played with my 4 yr old in months and months...not really played with him anyways. I've stopped driving because I think it's dangerous for me, my family, and others on the road. So something has to give.

The thing is though, I think she's prob not ready but I'm just going to have to force the issue. I think I need to do it for my own health and safety (dh isn't always here to drive me/us around). I can't keep fainting. I'm worried I'll faint while I'm holding her or we're going down stairs. Ugh, I hate this. I just HATE it. I feel like I am letting her down if I don't comfort her. Because really the only thing she wants is to nurse. She's not a "typical" baby...she can't be rocked, walked, cuddled to sleep. She'll have a fit if I hold her and don't nurse her and she'll just go nuts in dh's arms trying to get to me. We tried once a long while ago to see what would happen if he would go to her instead and he almost dropped her she was struggling so much to get over to me.

I'm really broken up and conflicted about all this. I'm very anti-CIO but this just seems like attended CIO...especially since I know in my heart things will go better if I don't pick her. But by better I still know that she'll cry for a long time, an hour or more most likely.


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## Meems (Jan 8, 2007)

PP, I think that you may need a strong plan, maybe No Cry Sleep Solution? I have some friends who have a baby that will not comfort nurse either and it was rough. they ended up having dad sleep in the room w/ baby and mom downstairs for a while, just so she could catch up on sleep. I'm sorry you're having it so rough.

So for us.... well last night was rough!! DD woke at 12, patted her back to sleep and then at 2 i tried shush-patting, and NO WAY!! DD threw a fit. I nursed her after offering water. she was up again at 3:30a, nursed. then slept till 6:30a... i don't know, maybe she really was thirsty? or overtired?


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## mamatoni (Aug 2, 2007)

Hi there everyone, I am thinking of nightweaning and had a question for those of you with some experience.

DD is 17 mo. We co-sleep. Here is a typical night right now while I am off for the summer (I teach)

Nurse to sleep at 10pm
wakes up fussing and nurse back down around 2am
repeat around 3:30
repeat around 4
repeat around 4:30
-this will sometimes happen several more times-
nurse last time at about 7:30
usually up around 8 or 8:30

In one month I go back to work. I usually get up around 5am and leave at around 6am to go to work. I get home around 3pm

Do you think it would be easier on her to try and nightwean b/f I go back so I will be here during the day to nurse her if she wants to more during the day? Is a month even enough time to try?

TIA!!!


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## feministmom (Feb 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Meems* 
i've been lurking here and following everyone's stories. i have done an abbreviated and tweaked version of JG's plan. basically, i just wanted my 17 mo to drop one feeding (the 12:30-1:30a one). it worked! now DD does wake me promptly at 3-3:30am (my time was 9:30p-3:30a, i know, only 6 hrs but i didn't want to push b/c of her age and the fact that she was used to nursing ~4 times a night). anyhow, she is now nursing sometimes 3 times after 3:30, but the last one is when we wake up. the only prob is that w/ the few nights of being awake an hr rocking back to sleep (remarkably didn't cry!!) we sleep later... thus pushing back the nap time... then bed time..... so we're a little off but that's ok.

just thought i'd share.

I'm so glad the plan can work to cut out just one feeding! I was thinking about doing that, getting DD used to that for a while, then working on the next feeding. Thanks for sharing!!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shelsi* 
Does everyone on this thread co-sleep? Dd is in a crib in our room (and I'll be honest, she'd be in her own room if we had an extra bedroom). She won't co-sleep, she's up all night if I try. In the beginning of the night she can put herself to sleep. Tonight was an excellent example: she had a bath, then PJ's, I nursed her, and then we sat and read a story, then turned the lights out and put her in her crib. Then she babbled for a few moments and then fell asleep. She can't put herself back to sleep in the middle of the night though without nursing first.

A few things:
1) first off she has never nursed to sleep. She does not comfort nurse. OTOH she doesn't take other comfort very well. If she wakes in the night and I am holding her she will be going nuts trying to nurse.
2) I know that the first thing she will do if I don't nurse her and don't pick her up since I think picking her up will make her really mad, is that she will throw her little body down. Then she'll stand up, still crying, and probably start banging her head on the crib which is something she also does when happy. She does it HARD and sometimes gives herself a bruise. I'm worried she'll do it really badly if she's upset. Next, she'll start throwing her pacifiers and she'll drop them between the crib and the wall where she knows it's hard for us to retrieve them.
3) she's got growth issues which I believe are related to all her food allergies. But then I'm reading in this thread that all the night waking (every 2 hours usually) can cause growth issues too. Still I'm worried about cutting out calories. She's not even on the growth chart right now and hasn't gained any weight in 6 mos.
4) we've got a lot of stuff coming up including a move. OTOH I've been waiting forever for the "right" time. First dh was deployed and I didn't want to do all this on my own, then I knew we were moving, then I thought she was teething. Now she is finally teething but it's only her first tooth and I'm not going to wait until they are all in!
5) I'm tired. Like really tired. I have fainting spells and the room just goes dark several times a day for me. I have no energy. I haven't played with my 4 yr old in months and months...not really played with him anyways. I've stopped driving because I think it's dangerous for me, my family, and others on the road. So something has to give.

The thing is though, I think she's prob not ready but I'm just going to have to force the issue. I think I need to do it for my own health and safety (dh isn't always here to drive me/us around). I can't keep fainting. I'm worried I'll faint while I'm holding her or we're going down stairs. Ugh, I hate this. I just HATE it. I feel like I am letting her down if I don't comfort her. Because really the only thing she wants is to nurse. She's not a "typical" baby...she can't be rocked, walked, cuddled to sleep. She'll have a fit if I hold her and don't nurse her and she'll just go nuts in dh's arms trying to get to me. We tried once a long while ago to see what would happen if he would go to her instead and he almost dropped her she was struggling so much to get over to me.

I'm really broken up and conflicted about all this. I'm very anti-CIO but this just seems like attended CIO...especially since I know in my heart things will go better if I don't pick her. But by better I still know that she'll cry for a long time, an hour or more most likely.









I'm so sorry to hear that you're so tired. Have you read the CIO post on askmoxie.org? I wonder if from your description of your DD if she might a "release tension" crier/sleeper....Also, I know sleep deprivation can cause a lot of health problems, but is it possible you've got something else going on, too? Like anemia or thyroid problem?

Good luck, Mama.


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## Shelsi (Apr 4, 2005)

Thank you for the responses







To answer a pp, I don't think anything else medically is going on with myself. Every once in a while she'll do a 4-5 hour stretch and on those days I am feeling almost normal again, don't faint, etc. So it's def tied to the lack of sleep.

Last night I decided we would go from 11-5 without feeding and just see what happens. She went to sleep around 8 and actually didn't wake until 11:15 so I went ahead and fed her. Then she woke at 2:30. I knew if I picked her up it would totally infuriate her, esp since she does not take comfort in just being rocked or walked. I knew she would go stiff and throw herself backwards. So I just sat next to her crib and I patted her and sang and talked to her. She cried for about 45 mins and then finally fell asleep. I tiptoed back to the bed and within 5 mins she was back awake and screaming







I told dh it was his turn but she was freaking out that it was him and not me. So I finally went over there and dh went back to bed. Again I patted her and kissed her head and so forth. She finally fell asleep at 4 a.m. Then she woke for the day at around 6:40 which is normal for her and actually she woke up really happy.

I feel like I just made her mad last night but she wasn't really hungry. She was laying down and sitting and just crying. I know if she were really hungry she'd be standing there. Of course it didn't help that at 3 a.m. I was starving! I was sitting there trying to convince myself that she's not hungry and can go more than 3 hrs at night without food and my stomach was growling.

I guess we will see what tonight brings. I don't have a good feeling about it but you never know.


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## MamaTrisha (Jun 19, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happy2bamama* 
Oh man, yeah, that's hard when she's telling you that she's sad. I don't blame you for struggling with this. One thing that's on your side here is the fact that your DD can verbally communicate with you AND understand you. I would imagine you've already gone this route, but in case not, have you tried talking to her about it during the day and/or before she goes to bed? Something like, "Mama needs to get a lot of sleep at night so she can have energy to play and go to fun places with you during the day. Can you try to help me with that?" and then explain how if she wakes up, you will put her back to sleep quickly so that you can get more sleep? Or what about the idea of telling her she can nurse when the sun comes up (I've heard that one used a lot)? It's just an idea, but if she's talked to you about it, perhaps when it happens at night, she won't be so upset because she at least knows why. But I know, toddlers aren't really ready to be rational in the middle of the night (or ever, sometimes)!

Also, I know you said that you don't want to let her melt down and that term means different things to each of us, so I'm not exactly sure what that means to you, but I would say for us, DS did melt down and yes, it was really hard to not "give in," but I had my eye on the prize of getting more sleep and in turn, being a better mama to him. The first night, he only melted for about 5 minutes or so, but DH was holding him and walking with him and then I rubbed him and whispered a song to him to sleep. In order for this to work, I hate to say it, but I think some kind of melt down is inevitable. I would not have been comfortable if DS had gone on for much longer, but like I've said before, DS knew he was safe and loved and in our arms. That's the only reason why I can even semi-condone the meltdown. It's very different than being left alone. And, I also think that the child will feed off of your confidence (or lack thereof). It's not easy to keep your wits about you when doing this, but in my opinion and experience, if I can keep calm and keep singing to DS and rubbing him without being overtly nervous or wavering and just focus on how much I love him and try to send that love and comfort to him, he settles in pretty easily. He knows that he can trust me and this case is no different.

I think all in all, you have to figure out how at the end of your rope you are with the night wakings. If you can tolerate them and your DD is upset with the night weaning process, then perhaps you should try again at a later time. But, if you are losing your mind and it's affecting your parenting during the day and your sanity, that's something else and if you can see the bigger picture - you stomaching a couple of meltdowns in order to gain happier days (and nights), then it might be worth it to you. That's all up to you, which I know is hard and I feel for ya.

And again, I've said this before too - for me, it was about establishing boundaries. There have been other, non-nighttime boundaries I've had to establish too and it doesn't get any easier saying no (like when DS wants to keep watching TV or dump crackers everywhere). So I'm just saying that even though your DD "doesn't like this," it doesn't mean that you're necessarily making the wrong choice. And, if you can find a way to talk her through her feelings, that might also help with the night weaning, if you still want to do it. My DS doesn't like having his diaper changed, but it is a necessity and so I do all I can to comfort him, acknowledge his feelings and distract him to get him to stay still for 2 seconds. The question is, is night weaning a necessity for you? I really think that once you answer that question, you'll be able to move forward with confidence in either direction.

I hope any of this helped. Follow your heart and good luck
















Thank you SOOO much for this reply. I actually responded to it the other night, but then my sweet little girl came up beside me and hit the power button, shutting my computer down.







:
Anyway, what you had to say not only made a lot of sense, it was like a big hug. I needed to hear all of that so badly.
Thank you.
We are working with a few suggestions you made. You really helped put it into perspective for me. I have other friends that co-sleep, but they don't breastfeed, so no one I know irl can really relate, ya know?


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shelsi* 
Thank you for the responses







To answer a pp, I don't think anything else medically is going on with myself. Every once in a while she'll do a 4-5 hour stretch and on those days I am feeling almost normal again, don't faint, etc. So it's def tied to the lack of sleep.

Last night I decided we would go from 11-5 without feeding and just see what happens. She went to sleep around 8 and actually didn't wake until 11:15 so I went ahead and fed her. Then she woke at 2:30. I knew if I picked her up it would totally infuriate her, esp since she does not take comfort in just being rocked or walked. I knew she would go stiff and throw herself backwards. So I just sat next to her crib and I patted her and sang and talked to her. She cried for about 45 mins and then finally fell asleep. I tiptoed back to the bed and within 5 mins she was back awake and screaming







I told dh it was his turn but she was freaking out that it was him and not me. So I finally went over there and dh went back to bed. Again I patted her and kissed her head and so forth. She finally fell asleep at 4 a.m. Then she woke for the day at around 6:40 which is normal for her and actually she woke up really happy.

I feel like I just made her mad last night but she wasn't really hungry. She was laying down and sitting and just crying. I know if she were really hungry she'd be standing there. Of course it didn't help that at 3 a.m. I was starving! I was sitting there trying to convince myself that she's not hungry and can go more than 3 hrs at night without food and my stomach was growling.

I guess we will see what tonight brings. I don't have a good feeling about it but you never know.

Just like you, I was thinking tonight about the fact that when DS wakes at 3:30am, he probably is hungry and that I should just feed him instead of trying to push him off until 4:30am (which is pretty arbitrary at this point since he's sleeping from 8pm to 3:30am which is a good 7.5 hours).

BTW - I don't remember how old your DC is... did I miss it?

Good luck tonight!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaTrisha* 
Thank you SOOO much for this reply. I actually responded to it the other night, but then my sweet little girl came up beside me and hit the power button, shutting my computer down.







:
Anyway, what you had to say not only made a lot of sense, it was like a big hug. I needed to hear all of that so badly.
Thank you.
We are working with a few suggestions you made. You really helped put it into perspective for me. I have other friends that co-sleep, but they don't breastfeed, so no one I know irl can really relate, ya know?

I'm so glad it helped you! Sometimes I have a hard time articulating what I'm trying to say and especially when it's been a long day, I wonder if I made any sense, so I'm happy you could make sense of what I was saying!

It's tough not having friends irl that you can talk to about this stuff, so that's why us MDC mamas have to be there for each other. Can you imagine what it was like before the internet? If, for example, you wanted to co-sleep with your baby, you may never know that there was a world of other people out there doing it too, you know?

Best wishes in what you decide with the nightweaning - keep us posted!


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## mamawithstars (Mar 12, 2007)

We kinda used his plan. At 16 months DS was still nursing every hour or two during the night and I was so worn out so we decided it was time to make a change.
We started by explaining the plan to DS. We would tell him long stories throughout the day about getting bigger and told him about all the fun things he gets to do now that he is big (ie, going down the slide at park, collecting pinecones on our street, walking down the stairs, the list went on and on) and we also told him that now that he is bigger he gets to sleep all through the night without any "nanny". We would talk about this everyday and especially at bedtime during the process and I believe it helped a lot.

We picked the hours that we wanted DS to sleep and we put him beside his dad to sleep instead of beside me. He would sleep longer beside Dad but wake up and cry when I wasn't right there, so I would give him a nurse and then put him back to sleep beside Dad.
The first night I did not nurse him DS got very mad and screamed and kicked and hit it took him almost an hour to calm down. It was so hard for me not to give him what he wanted and I felt so mean at the time, it was awefull. But we stayed by him and when he felt better we told him the story about being big.
After that night he would wake up and I would just tell him the story and he would snuggle up and go right back to sleep without nursing or crying or anything. After a week or so of this he just stopped waking up.
Now at 21m DS sleeps 11 - 12 hours a night beside Mama without waking up. I still get to nurse him to sleep at night and sleep beside him and we all wake up well rested and very hungry.

I have found that explaining the plan to DS has worked on many other occasions as well. They understand alot more than most people think.


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## CheriK (Mar 18, 2003)

We used his plan when night weaning finally worked, but it wasn't exactly easy. I do think part of the reason it worked wasn't the "system" we used per se, but simply that I was resolute that this time we would night wean. Kids can really detect when you're unsure of your decision on discipline issues (and I do consider this a discipline issue - it's setting a new rule and enforcing it). I was't willing to let them cry alone, and I didn't really want to stop bed sharing, so his plan really fit with our philosophy.

My twin were 2 1/2 when we finally night weaned. We'd coslept since they were born and by that time they both night nursed at least once (and usually more like 2 or 3 or . . . you know the story) every night. I suffer from insomnia and it had gotten to the point where I'd maybe get 3 hours of sleep a night. It was affecting my daytime parenting, and it simply wasn't fair to any of us.

We had set the stage w/ other unsuccessful attempts over the previous few months. So we'd introduced the concept of "nonies go night-night". We'd already shortened nursing sessions by telling them, "You can nurse while I (fill in the blank - recite the alphabet, sing a favorite song, count to 10), but then it's time to stop". I'd often fudge that one - waiting until I knew they'd gotten some milk before I started the countdown, so they were at least somewhat satisfied. And dh had started stepping in sooner with walking, rocking, back rubs. So they were used to other forms of night-time comfort, which I think made a difference when we finally did night wean, since it wasn't a completely new idea.

The "program" worked beautifully for dd. She was completely night weaned within a week, and we really didn't have to do the incremental steps. She was just ready. She was pretty much sleeping through the night (more than the 7 hours at least) by the end of the week. DS was a completely different story. It took a full month (yes, I counted) to get through with him. That really reflects his personality, but it didn't make it any easier for any of us. He absolutely refused to let Mommy comfort him if he couldn't nurse; the only thing that worked was for Daddy to get up and walk the hallway with him in a sling. He was typically sobbing throughout this as well, so it took some time before we got more sleep at night and for a while we got a lot less. DH would walk until he calmed and drifted back to sleep, but we quickly discovered that if he tried to get back into bed, DS would wake up and we'd start all over. Instead, he'd transition from walking to rocking in our big recliner, then eventually pushing the recliner back and spending the rest of the night there. At least DH was willing to spend this time - he said that I'd been doing the night-time parenting for 2 1/2 years, it was simply his turn (go, Daddy!).

Finally, DS would let DH rub his back and talk to him in bed and eventually he would wake, cuddle up w/ DH or me and go back to sleep on his own. He still (at 6 1/2; we still share a family bed) wakes at least once every night, but rarely needs adult help to fall back asleep. Since I never ever sleep through a whole night without waking, I suspect this is at least in part genetic.


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Okay, I'm here for some advice and/or thoughts again...

DS goes to bed at 8pm, sometimes stirs around 11pm-ish, but goes back to sleep without a fuss. Lately, he has then been waking up around 3am-ish and if I try to put him back to sleep, he will after a few minutes of protest. But, then he only sleeps for about 15 minutes and then we do the same thing over and over.

Usually, I hold him off until around 4:30am, but even then, he NEVER falls back to sleep for any real good length of time from when he wakes around 3-4-ish until he gets up for good around 6:30-7am.

Does anyone have any help regarding that second stretch of the night? Last night, I figured, "You know what, he's probably actually hungry at 3am, so I'll just nurse him," but after I did, he was basically up every hour after that nursing and then when 6:30am rolls around, I have basically been up for the past 3.5 hours! Not the most restful way to start the day.

Two things I'm considering trying: one is to feed him when he wakes up at 3-4-ish and then when he wakes again, try to comfort him back to sleep (which I've really never done - I think I'm always too groggy to even think about it, so I just nurse) OR, I'm very slightly entertaining the idea of doing a dream feed at 11pm when he sometimes stirs (when we come to bed). I am torn about dream feeds - I feel like my end goal is to get DS to sleep longer, so waking him up sounds like the opposite of that, but if I fed him and could know that he's full and CAN go until 6am, then maybe he'd be able to and I could comfort him back to sleep easier around 3-4am.

Also, I'm thinking that asking him to sleep from 8pm STRAIGHT through until 6-ish is a little too much in terms of being hungry... thoughts?

Sorry for rambling... thanks for listening. I like what the pp said about talking to her DC about being a "big boy" and I have always liked the idea of using the sun coming up as a reference point for when they can nurse again. I'm not sure if DS can grasp that yet, but I think I might give it a try because like the pp said, they can understand more than we know. Hey, it's worth a shot!

BTW - I see Dr. Gordon for our next check-up next week, so I will be asking him my questions too (not that he'll have the answers though).

Happy sleeping to us all and TIA for the help


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## Meems (Jan 8, 2007)

Quote:

Two things I'm considering trying: one is to feed him when he wakes up at 3-4-ish and then when he wakes again, try to comfort him back to sleep (which I've really never done - I think I'm always too groggy to even think about it, so I just nurse) OR, I'm very slightly entertaining the idea of doing a dream feed at 11pm when he sometimes stirs (when we come to bed). I am torn about dream feeds - I feel like my end goal is to get DS to sleep longer, so waking him up sounds like the opposite of that, but if I fed him and could know that he's full and CAN go until 6am, then maybe he'd be able to and I could comfort him back to sleep easier around 3-4am.
i think i'd try the dream feed at 11pm... i doubt he'll wake up if you just roll him toward you and put the boob in his mouth. worth a try IMO.


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## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happy2bamama* 
Okay, I'm here for some advice and/or thoughts again...

DS goes to bed at 8pm, sometimes stirs around 11pm-ish, but goes back to sleep without a fuss. Lately, he has then been waking up around 3am-ish and if I try to put him back to sleep, he will after a few minutes of protest. But, then he only sleeps for about 15 minutes and then we do the same thing over and over.

Usually, I hold him off until around 4:30am, but even then, he NEVER falls back to sleep for any real good length of time from when he wakes around 3-4-ish until he gets up for good around 6:30-7am.

Does anyone have any help regarding that second stretch of the night? Last night, I figured, "You know what, he's probably actually hungry at 3am, so I'll just nurse him," but after I did, he was basically up every hour after that nursing and then when 6:30am rolls around, I have basically been up for the past 3.5 hours! Not the most restful way to start the day.

Two things I'm considering trying: one is to feed him when he wakes up at 3-4-ish and then when he wakes again, try to comfort him back to sleep (which I've really never done - I think I'm always too groggy to even think about it, so I just nurse) OR, I'm very slightly entertaining the idea of doing a dream feed at 11pm when he sometimes stirs (when we come to bed). I am torn about dream feeds - I feel like my end goal is to get DS to sleep longer, so waking him up sounds like the opposite of that, but if I fed him and could know that he's full and CAN go until 6am, then maybe he'd be able to and I could comfort him back to sleep easier around 3-4am.

Also, I'm thinking that asking him to sleep from 8pm STRAIGHT through until 6-ish is a little too much in terms of being hungry... thoughts?

Sorry for rambling... thanks for listening. I like what the pp said about talking to her DC about being a "big boy" and I have always liked the idea of using the sun coming up as a reference point for when they can nurse again. I'm not sure if DS can grasp that yet, but I think I might give it a try because like the pp said, they can understand more than we know. Hey, it's worth a shot!

BTW - I see Dr. Gordon for our next check-up next week, so I will be asking him my questions too (not that he'll have the answers though).

Happy sleeping to us all and TIA for the help









how old is your DS?

I wouldn't dreamfeed. I doubt that he's really hungry. How long has it been since you stopped nursing in the early morning? That 4-6(5-7 for us) nurse-a-thon window is pretty common. That twilight sleep. Maybe try changing his diaper to make sure he doesn't just have to pee and then persist with not nursing (although how long has it been since you have been CONSISTENTLY not nursing him during those hours?).

When I nightweaned (which I did kind of cold turkey. I did one week of one feeding and then cut that out in week 2) it took about a week for him to stop waking. Things were MUCH better after day 3 and then 99% after night 7. I always offered water but he never took it.

Sorry for all the questions but I'm new to this thread.


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## Shelsi (Apr 4, 2005)

Ok I'm sure I must be in for it tonight. Last night was night #2 for us (although she's been able to put herself to sleep for ages so I guess technically on "the plan" we're on night 7). She woke and nursed at 11:30. At 2-ish she woke again and I went over and just sat next to crib. She cried for like 2 minutes, not even long enough to wake up dh, and then went right back to sleep. She then slept until 5. I think at 5 I prob could have not nursed her but it was getting light out and I knew if she cried and woke up my 4 yr old we'd all have a very early morning so I nursed her and she went back to sleep until about 7:40.

Dh woke up this morning and asked what happened last night since he didn't remember her waking at all. I told him and said, "it can't be this easy can it?" And he started laughing saying I was going to kick myself for not doing it sooner if it IS this easy lol.

Oh and to answer a pp, she will be 1 in 2 weeks.


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *D_McG* 
how old is your DS?

I wouldn't dreamfeed. I doubt that he's really hungry. How long has it been since you stopped nursing in the early morning? That 4-6(5-7 for us) nurse-a-thon window is pretty common. That twilight sleep. Maybe try changing his diaper to make sure he doesn't just have to pee and then persist with not nursing (although how long has it been since you have been CONSISTENTLY not nursing him during those hours?).

When I nightweaned (which I did kind of cold turkey. I did one week of one feeding and then cut that out in week 2) it took about a week for him to stop waking. Things were MUCH better after day 3 and then 99% after night 7. I always offered water but he never took it.

Sorry for all the questions but I'm new to this thread.

My DS is 18-months-old. We night weaned him back when he was 14-months, but he still always did the 11pm feed and then would wake around 4:30-ish and then we'd nurse again on and off until 6:30am. Around month 16, he got a cold and teething was happening, so I nursed him whenever he wanted since he couldn't get as much milk with that stuffy nose. About a month and a half ago, we started re-night weaning and one night, he didn't wake up at 11pm, so that was my cue that he COULD go until 4-ish (that's when he next woke) without being nursed. After that, if he did wake at 11-ish (which is pretty rare), I would comfort him back to sleep really easily. But now he wakes up around 3-ish (2:55 last night, some nights 3:45) and it still feels like the middle of the night to me, so I have been trying to comfort him back to sleep, but as I posted before, that only works for about 15 minutes and then he's in that "twilight sleep" (that's a great name for it) mode until he wakes up for good.

It sounds like you guys just held firm and didn't "give in" and nurse during those early morning hours and it took about a week for your LO to stop waking, is that right? Before DS got sick, I could hold him off until 5am or so, but then again, he was getting fed at 11pm. Thanks for the idea about the diaper change, but I have worked soooo hard to not have to deal with that in the night, that I don't think there's any way I would reintroduce a diaper change into the mix!







But I hear what you're saying about him having to pee. Maybe even the urge wakes him and that's what's keeping him up. Although, there is enough room in his diaper to hold another pee and DS is not that sensitive to a full diaper.

So, this is something that I've been thinking about all morning... should DS be able to sleep from 8pm to 5 or 6am? Is that idea even realistic? He has nearly done it a few times, so I know he can, but am I holding too high of expectations? I'm torn about it - on one hand, I know lots of toddlers sleep this long without eating, but on the other hand, that's about 9 hours, which sounds long. I think the biggest thing is that if he were sleeping straight through, he probably would not wake up due to hunger, BUT if he does wake up due to anything else - has to pee, hot/cold, twilight sleep, etc., then he's gonna feel hungry and want to nurse. I am this way too - I can sleep for like 11 hours straight (probably 24 hours these days!), but if I had to get up after about 7 or 8 hours, I'd be hungry then too, but the hunger itself wouldn't have woken me up. Does any of this make sense?! Bottom line, I'm wondering if my goal of not nursing DS AT ALL from 8pm to 5am-ish (7am if I'm being honest with what *I* want) is realistic. Thoughts?

DH gets up with DS in the am and when we have nursed on and off from 3:30-ish until 6:30am, those mornings DS is not even hungry for breakfast! Which is no shock because technically he's been eating breakfast for the past four three hours!

As of now, I think I'm going to just try to be firm with not nursing during the "twilight time." I know that DS is not gonna give this up easily, but it's really the only way if I want to get decent sleep from 3:30am on. I'm hoping that he'll just stop waking up at that time. I'd be fine with 5am, just not 3am.

I welcome anymore thoughts or suggestions!









BTW - Shelsi - that's great to hear that you had a good night last night!


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## CheriK (Mar 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happy2bamama* 
My DS is 18-months-old. So, this is something that I've been thinking about all morning... should DS be able to sleep from 8pm to 5 or 6am? Is that idea even realistic? He has nearly done it a few times, so I know he can, but am I holding too high of expectations? I'm torn about it - on one hand, I know lots of toddlers sleep this long without eating, but on the other hand, that's about 9 hours, which sounds long. I think the biggest thing is that if he were sleeping straight through, he probably would not wake up due to hunger, BUT if he does wake up due to anything else - has to pee, hot/cold, twilight sleep, etc., then he's gonna feel hungry and want to nurse. I am this way too - I can sleep for like 11 hours straight (probably 24 hours these days!), but if I had to get up after about 7 or 8 hours, I'd be hungry then too, but the hunger itself wouldn't have woken me up. Does any of this make sense?! Bottom line, I'm wondering if my goal of not nursing DS AT ALL from 8pm to 5am-ish (7am if I'm being honest with what *I* want) is realistic. Thoughts?

I think it really depends on the child. I've read a lot of "advice" that insists that children over a year (sometimes written as 6 mos or 9 mos or 3 mos or some seemingly arbitrary age) simply cannot truly be hungry at night. But I just think every child is different, and there have also been studies that show that older breastfeeding babies are still getting 25% of their nutrition from night nursing. Heck, I get hungry at night (especially now, while pregnant!) and certainly can't fall back asleep after waking when my stomach is grumbling at me!

I really felt that my children were hungry at night well into their first year. And at that point nursing was providing most of their nutrition, so that was the default for empty tummies at 3 am. Honestly, I think rolling over and nursing them was less work than having a snack /cup next to the bed and offering that (which I believe is a Dr. Sear's suggestion). And I felt like other reasons for night waking (teething, developmental milestones like walking and talking, first illnesses) were WAY more of an issue from 1-2 years than they had been during the first year. So in some ways, that second year was even worse for night waking. We didn't try to night wean until much later, mostly because I really felt they needed nursing during the night. But I'm sure that it depends heavily on the child, so what was impossible for MY children might be quite reasonable for another child! If your gut tells you it's unrealistic, then maybe your knowledge of your child is telling you something! Perhaps you could use that knowledge to adjust his night waking pattern (i.e. nursing while he's half-asleep at 11pm or if you naturally wake during the night to pee/whatever).


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## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happy2bamama* 

It sounds like you guys just held firm and didn't "give in" and nurse during those early morning hours and it took about a week for your LO to stop waking, is that right?

Yes - Week one I nursed the first time he woke (8pm.. midnight.. whatever. Usually around 11am) and then not again until morning. Week 2 I stopped nursing altogether (just to sleep).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happy2bamama* 
But I hear what you're saying about him having to pee. Maybe even the urge wakes him and that's what's keeping him up. Although, there is enough room in his diaper to hold another pee and DS is not that sensitive to a full diaper.

For DS it was that he was getting erections and then couldn't pee. I found if I got him up to change him he would pee all over the place one he lost his erection (in the cold). It was a phase that passed actually. The key was him kicking. I noticed he would wake up kicking.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happy2bamama* 
So, this is something that I've been thinking about all morning... should DS be able to sleep from 8pm to 5 or 6am? Is that idea even realistic?

I think once you do it gradually that's a very reasonable goal for his age.I went away when DS was 17 mos for a weekend and he didn't take ANY of the EBM I had religiously pumped. Day or night. But the night was the real key for me. He just ate more during the day.

I was convinced DS would be STARVING but he really wasn't. He never even drank water. And I was so desperate to wean (day and night) that I was open to giving him some snack at night (I just wasn't going to nurse him no.matter.what) and that never even came up.

Basically - it can't hurt to try! Although maybe I'm not the right person to advise in this thread b/c I don't think JG would have worked for DS. It seems too drawn out and confusing to me. I think for DS it was best that he could either nurse or not. And one time a night in the short term was easily understood b/c it was generally when I joined him in bed. Once we were in bed together there was no more nursing. Even the 'when the sun comes up' thing wouldn't work here I don't think. I feel like DS would just keep waking to see if it was light out







The message I wanted to send was that we didn't nurse in bed anymore (except to sleep). BUT (big but) I was weaning across the board. So had no real designs on maintaining a nursing relationship at that time.


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## MamaTrisha (Jun 19, 2008)

Well, I don't know what happened, but today is the first day in 2 years and 3 weeks that my little girl has not nursed in 24 hours. She didn't nurse to nap, but she also skipped her nap instead of staying in bed. We all went to bed together tonight and she fell asleep.
I was ready for her to wean, but it really is bittersweet, thinking that this might really be the end.
Now, I ask myself what the heck I am doing here instead of enjoying my first night of sleep in all this time!!
Goodnight!!


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## mamawithstars (Mar 12, 2007)

happy2bamama said:


> My DS is 18-months-old.
> 
> So, this is something that I've been thinking about all morning... should DS be able to sleep from 8pm to 5 or 6am? Is that idea even realistic? He has nearly done it a few times, so I know he can, but am I holding too high of expectations? I'm torn about it - on one hand, I know lots of toddlers sleep this long without eating, but on the other hand, that's about 9 hours, which sounds long. I think the biggest thing is that if he were sleeping straight through, he probably would not wake up due to hunger, BUT if he does wake up due to anything else - has to pee, hot/cold, twilight sleep, etc., then he's gonna feel hungry and want to nurse. I am this way too - I can sleep for like 11 hours straight (probably 24 hours these days!), but if I had to get up after about 7 or 8 hours, I'd be hungry then too, but the hunger itself wouldn't have woken me up. Does any of this make sense?! Bottom line, I'm wondering if my goal of not nursing DS AT ALL from 8pm to 5am-ish (7am if I'm being honest with what *I* want) is realistic. Thoughts?
> QUOTE]
> ...


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## angelandmisha (May 16, 2008)

happy2beamama, I have read through this whole thread in the last few days and feel very encouraged that whenever we start night weaning we will have success. Thank you so much for sharing your experience and I admire how you respond so well to everyone in such a thoughtful way, you must be a good friend to those who know you.









I was thinking about your question of whether or not to do a "dream feed" and it strikes me that you've been wanting to do that from the beginning. I know most books advise against it, but experts say a lot of stuff that may not be best for everyone. You know your child best and I've heard you saying that you think that would help. (Keep in mind, of course, that I only have one child who is 10.5 mo, and have yet to figure out how to get him to ever nap/fall asleep at night without nursing and if I try to put him down he totally wakes up!) But, in reading all of your posts, it seems like you've been wanting to do a feeding at 11. HTH

Thanks again for your posts in this thread, it has definitely given me the idea that this could work for us.
Ingrid


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamawithstars* 
I know how hard it is to be firm especially in the middle of the night. I guess it just depends how confidant you are about making a change. I have already posted my nightweaning story. It was probably the hardest parenting thing I have had to do so far. As for your musings on whether or not your expectations are reasonable, I know every child is different, but my 21m old has been sleeping 11 to 12 hours straight each night for months now. He wakes up dry and hungry after a good nights sleep. Good luck with your quest for a longer nights rest and just follow your heart and do what is best for you. Remember what is best for you is best for your baby.

Thanks for your post! It's good to know that there are toddlers out there sleeping for these long stretches







And, I think you are right about being firm in the middle of the night. I have realized that DS's constant early morning wakings are not necessarily because he is hungry, but more of a real, deep-rooted habit than anything else. I think it's always harder for him to go back to sleep during this time because he's not in that sweet spot like he is in the beginning half of the night where he is so tired he just zonks right out again.

So, last night, I decided that I just needed to be firm and stick with not allowing him to nurse until 5 or 6am so that I could just see how it would go. Well, he didn't nurse from 8pm until 6am!!!!







: Not that DS was happy about it, but it went like this... he woke up around 4am-ish and I got him back to sleep after about a minute of rubbing and whispering to him. Then he woke up about 20 minutes later (I think). This time, he was more upset and I noticed that his cries were more of a pissed cry rather than an, "I'm starving!" cry. When I'd try to rub him, he'd take my hand off of him and throw it to the side, like, "Back off, Lady!" One time, he flopped so that his tummy was near my head and I listened to make sure his stomach wasn't growling, and it wasn't.







He was throwing himself around a bit and then I explained to him in a whisper, "It's time for nite nite. So and so is nite nite and so and so is nite nite and Mama is nite nite and Dada is nite nite..." and that did the trick every time. I seriously went through and named everyone we'd ever met and told him that they were nite nite! He woke up two more times, I think, but then around 5-ish, he fell into a good deep sleep and didn't wake up until 6am. When he did wake up, I showered him with appreciation and told him, "Look, it's bright outside, now we can have milkies!" and he went to town, like he wasn't ever gonna get 'em again! Then he was up for the day. All day, I've been saying things to him like, "Remember when we had to go nite nite last night all night long? And remember when you got to get the milkies when it was bright out? Well, tonight we have to sleep all night again and if you wake up, Mama will lay you back down and say 'It's time for nite nite', but don't worry, you will get the milkies when it's bright out again, okay?" And then I explained to him how everyone goes nite nite all night. He seemed like he was interested and listening and like he really remembered it all, but I'm not really sure if it will change his level of annoyance tonight if/when he wakes. Oh and today, we nursed a lot, so I think he was making up for that feeding. I also told him at dinner that we needed to make sure we ate a good dinner so we could be full enough to sleep all night. Again, not sure if that will actually make a difference, but hopefully it does.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *angelandmisha* 
happy2beamama, I have read through this whole thread in the last few days and feel very encouraged that whenever we start night weaning we will have success. Thank you so much for sharing your experience and I admire how you respond so well to everyone in such a thoughtful way, you must be a good friend to those who know you.









I was thinking about your question of whether or not to do a "dream feed" and it strikes me that you've been wanting to do that from the beginning. I know most books advise against it, but experts say a lot of stuff that may not be best for everyone. You know your child best and I've heard you saying that you think that would help. (Keep in mind, of course, that I only have one child who is 10.5 mo, and have yet to figure out how to get him to ever nap/fall asleep at night without nursing and if I try to put him down he totally wakes up!) But, in reading all of your posts, it seems like you've been wanting to do a feeding at 11. HTH

Thanks again for your posts in this thread, it has definitely given me the idea that this could work for us.
Ingrid

What a nice thing for you to say about me, thanks!









Yeah, I can see how it would seem like I wanted to do the dream feed at 11pm, now that you say it. I know I've always said that I'm okay with nursing him then because I'm still awake. But, somewhere along the road, he stopped waking then and it has been great to really get a big ole nursing break at night. And, for the first time since DS has been born, it's allowed me to actually go out to dinner with friends because I know he won't be waking, so DH can hang at home and could rub/whisper him back to sleep if he had to. I hadn't been outside of my house at nighttime in a year and a half - I'd forgotten what the moon looked like!







Having a baby has given me such an appreciation for things like the moon.

I'm glad this thread has given you confidence about possibly night weaning. I think it's really helpful to hear all the different stories and how things change and shift and how to get back on track, etc. Good luck and of course, we're here for ya whenever you need us!


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## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

That's a great update. It really helps to just stand firm - less confusing for everyone. I think on night 3 when we nightweaned DS woke COUNTLESS times but every time I just said no... not until tomorrow. It makes sense that it would take a little while to 'stick'.


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *D_McG* 
That's a great update. It really helps to just stand firm - less confusing for everyone. I think on night 3 when we nightweaned DS woke COUNTLESS times but every time I just said no... not until tomorrow. It makes sense that it would take a little while to 'stick'.

Yes, I really agree about how being firm is less confusing. I think that's what I was struggling with - DS can't tell time, so how would he understand that nursing at 5am was okay, but 3am wasn't? I think that made our mornings do scattered.

Last night was basically a repeat of the first night of no milk until the morning. DS woke up three times and was pissed, but finally got back to a deep sleep around 5am. Then, after he nursed, he did the unimaginable and fell back asleep until 7:30am!!!







I actually got to get up with DH and DS because I wasn't as drained as usual. What a treat!

I continued to do my, "So and so is nite nite..." to DS when he woke up at night and I think at some point he was getting sick of me saying that and just wanted silence so he could go back to sleep! I'm really trying to explain the "we get milkies when it's bright outside" concept to him because I think that he'd be able to understand that the best.

I did notice that DS had a bigger appetite yesterday and nursed more. He has been eating non-stop today too.

Hopefully we won't have many more nights of waking and then we'll all be catching up on some much-needed sleep!

One more thing - people whose DCs are sleeping through the whole night like this - what has happened when bad bouts of teething have hit again or a cold? Do you nurse them when they wake in the middle of the night or do you stick to the morning thing?


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## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happy2bamama* 

One more thing - people whose DCs are sleeping through the whole night like this - what has happened when bad bouts of teething have hit again or a cold? Do you nurse them when they wake in the middle of the night or do you stick to the morning thing?

I weaned shortly after (as planned) but when DS is sick now he just clings to me more . I have to peel him off me in the middle of the night if I want to move a muscle







I know a couple of other people who have just resumed night nursing and then re-nightweaned. Apparently it's much much easier the subsequent times. By then they know what no means and that it's all OK.


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *D_McG* 
I weaned shortly after (as planned) but when DS is sick now he just clings to me more . I have to peel him off me in the middle of the night if I want to move a muscle







I know a couple of other people who have just resumed night nursing and then re-nightweaned. Apparently it's much much easier the subsequent times. By then they know what no means and that it's all OK.

Yeah, I am figuring that we might have to backtrack a bit if/when DS is teething/sick, but I think you're right in that it's always easier the next time around.

On that note, last night, DS only woke twice (at his normal times) and he didn't even get upset AT ALL when he first woke. He quickly just put himself back to sleep. And, at the next waking, he was unhappy for about 10 seconds and then fell back asleep - I couldn't believe it! He woke up again at 5am and I nursed him because I wanted to reward him for doing so well those first two times and because I felt like it was kind of arbitrary for him to wait another hour for milk. Sometimes I still can't quite get comfortable with pushing him until 6am (or when it's light out). I know it would probably make more sense to him to have that always be the key to when he gets milk, but like last night, for instance, I didn't want to press my luck when he'd done so well already







Can't wait to see what tonight brings! I know one of these nights I'm gonna go to bed and the next time I'm woken up will be 5 or 6 am and that will be the most straight sleep I've gotten in two years (including pregnancy pee wakings at night)! Now if I could only get myself into bed at 9pm instead of basking in my free time (and posting on MDC)!


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## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

Great news!


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## mamawithstars (Mar 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happy2bamama* 
One more thing - people whose DCs are sleeping through the whole night like this - what has happened when bad bouts of teething have hit again or a cold? Do you nurse them when they wake in the middle of the night or do you stick to the morning thing?

Yes when DS is sick or teething he does sometimes wake to nurse. I just nurse him whenever he wants and in a few days when he is feeling better he goes back to sleeping all night on his own.


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## karin95 (Jun 30, 2006)

I thought I'd start a new thread, but this seems to have become a little Dr. Gordon tribe thread, so here goes...(it is very long, so do tell me if i should start a new thread!)

Last night we started the process of nightweaning our almost-19-month-old son (1/26/07). He nurses from both his moms, so that's a challenge right there, because there's no non-nursing "dad" to snuggle him to sleep...









He has been, for a while, going to sleep around 6:30pm (often later because he's been taking FOREVER to fall asleep, but that's a different thread), then waking somewhere around 9pm for nurse, then often when we get in bed (10ish) he'll wake up and nurse, then every 1.5-2.5 hours he'll wake to nurse. He falls right back to sleep, but often stays on the nipple for a while, which is frustrating. Sometimes he gets kicky or tossy-turny and doesn't fall fully asleep for a while, which keeps us up, as well.

We co-sleep, but we have his crib side-carred to our queen bed. it works really well and he *mostly* stays on the crib during the night (naps and before we get to bed, he's all over the place!)

We have started, during the night, to try and stop him from nibbling on the nipple after he's asleep, so we'll say "last bite nurse" when we know he's done swallowing. He's gotten used to that and often pops off and rolls over. Unless he's not done and then he says "other siiiiide!" and nurses some more.

So last night we decided to go with the 11pm-6am timeframe. He went to sleep at 6:30pm (pretty easily) and then woke up at 9:30ish for nurse and was fussy, so he ended up nursing from both of us. So he was pretty tanked up.

then he woke up at 12:15 and all heck broke loose. He nursed one side, switched and then I told him "last bite nurse" when he wasn't totally finished or back to sleep. He seemed to know exactly what was up, because he started crying immediately for "siiiide" (which is what he calls nursing. it's "side", as in "other side". it's pretty cute.) and i told him "side" is "away for later", which is another concept he understands. and that made him so sad and angry. he just cried and yelled. It broke my heart! Then he tried for his other mom, and she said her nurse was away for later and he was so mad about that. He cried and cried, while I snuggled him and pet his head.

Finally, he lay down on my arm and started snuffling and calming down. i shushed and pet his head and he, eventually, fell asleep.

it took 10 minutes for him to stop crying and start settling down. It felt like over an hour.

He slept for a pretty short period of time, but he did sleep, so when he woke up, I was able to nurse him again. I let him eat a little bit more, but made sure he wasn't asleep when i said "last bite nurse". He flipped out right away, but did calm down again. It was less than 10 minutes.

My partner and I switched sides of the bed at 2:30am, so she would nurse him the next time he woke up. At around 4am, he awoke and she nursed him and then did the "last bite nurse" and he flipped out again. He started calming down, and then remembered me and crawled over for my nurse, but i told him mine was away for later, and he collapsed on me in crying. He is preferring me lately, so he was taking it harder that he couldn't have my nurse. He cried and cried, but did, again, snuggle up to me and fall asleep. He slept for about a minute, but was asleep, so I nursed him a little bit again and "last bite nurse", and instead of crying, he sat up and started talking and pretending like he was awake!

i was NOT waking up at 4am, so I tried to get him to come back to sleep, but he wasn't having any of it. my partner got up and went to get him teething tablets, because we think he might be teething. i asked him if he had a poop (can't smell through the thick night diaper!) and he said yes, so we changed him, but he didn't have a poop...(he rarely answers correctly, so we were just desperate.)

I decided that there was no way he was going to fall asleep without nursing more, so i treated it like he was falling asleep for the first time, and sang his nighttime songs and nursed him. It worked and he fell asleep and slept until 6:45am, at which point I nursed him like normal (after our 6am deadline) and he slept until 8:30! (he's usually up 7-7:30am).

so the first night, while heart-wrenching, was not horrible. We're not giving up and will do it again tonight. I do think it's confusing for him that sometimes he gets nurse and sometimes not. i wish it were earlier in the summer, so we could just wean during the dark hours, but that's too long at this point.

I do agree with Dr. Gordon that, at least for my son, he's angry, but not scared. He gets what he wants *almost* all of the time (and my little guy really does...) and he needs to understand that sometimes his moms decide what is best for the family and he might not like it.

I'm starting school full-time in 2 weeks and if i can't get more than 2.5 hours of uninterrupted sleep, I'm going to do very poorly at keeping up with my homework, parenting, housework, and life in general. We've been sleep deprived for 18 months with him, and then before that with our foster daughter for a year, so we're TIIIIRED. I do hope that tonight goes as well or better than last night and that this is a good solution for us. I'll let you all know, if anyone is actually interested!


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## PapayaVagina (May 11, 2002)

i was just thinking about this thread last night and wanting to put in an update.

we have been doing the "plan" for about 4 months now and it has helped with taking dd from waking up 20+ times a night to about 5 times a night or so but i'm still so tired and cannot sleep well with her attached. i've tried and tried to get through 5-7 hours with her and she goes completely ballistic and will scream bloody murder for hours







. i've been trying to push her a little bit lately and it's been rough because it probably takes me near an hour to get her back to sleep w/o nursing her and then she wakes up at the slightest movement or noise and starts screaming again


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karin95* 
I do agree with Dr. Gordon that, at least for my son, he's angry, but not scared. He gets what he wants *almost* all of the time (and my little guy really does...) and he needs to understand that sometimes his moms decide what is best for the family and he might not like it.

Karin95 - wow, first of all, I want to say how awesome it is that your baby has TWO nursing mamas - that's wonderful!! What an interesting dynamic - are their ever times where you guys fight over who *has* to do it if you're busy with something else?!

Okay, onto the night weaning - I'm not sure, but it seems to me like the part that might be confusing for your DS is that he is allowed to nurse, but just not fall asleep on the boob. I don't know how he'd do, but it might be easier for him to understand if it were just all or nothing. Just a thought - you guys know best though.







Good luck with tonight!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PapayaVagina* 
i was just thinking about this thread last night and wanting to put in an update.

we have been doing the "plan" for about 4 months now and it has helped with taking dd from waking up 20+ times a night to about 5 times a night or so but i'm still so tired and cannot sleep well with her attached. i've tried and tried to get through 5-7 hours with her and she goes completely ballistic and will scream bloody murder for hours







. i've been trying to push her a little bit lately and it's been rough because it probably takes me near an hour to get her back to sleep w/o nursing her and then she wakes up at the slightest movement or noise and starts screaming again









I'm sorry that your DD has been so upset. And yeah, isn't it amazing how even if you're getting more sleep than you were before, you still feel so tired? I kept thinking that if I could just cut out one of his feedings, I'd be so much more rested, but sadly, I felt no difference. Hopefully it will get better for you guys.

For us, things have been pretty consistently good. DS has been sleeping straight from 8pm until 4am-ish for the past couple of months at least. It's so wonderful to see him be able to get a good chunk of sleep and I can actually go out with some of my girlfriends at night and not worry about if he wakes up, because he doesn't (aside from 1 or 2 times that DH has patted him back to sleep). And, I always thought he'd probably start waking up again with teething, but we are head first in molar territory and he's been sleeping great for that first 7 hour stretch







(hope that didn't jinx it)

I sometimes wonder if I could push him to sleep until 6:30 and not do that 4-am waking, but I'm just so impressed with how well he's done that I don't want to push my luck. Sometimes DS will wake up around 3-am or so, but I always tell him, "It's time for night-night" and he'll snuggle up to me and fall back asleep (so cute). And sometimes he'll do this a couple more times until 4am but he is so quick to go back to sleep - I absolutely love seeing him be able to fall back asleep happily without the boob! My rule is that it has to at least be 4:15am for me to nurse him and when he finally wakes up around 4:30am or so, he enthusiastically says, "Milk???" and then giggles when I tell him yes. He is thrilled! He nurses and then falls back to sleep until around 6:30am-ish.

I think the reason why I still feel like a total zombie in the AM is that those last hours of sleep are totally interrupted, but DH takes DS for at least an hour or so and I can get some REAL sleep, sprawled out on the bed alone!







Some nights I go to sleep when DS does at 8pm because I know I get a guaranteed 7 hours straight for myself and then some extra after he nurses. But overall, I feel less tired even though mornings are tough. But I was never a morning person to begin with.

I can't tell you how happy I am that we did the night-weaning. I was unsure at first, but it has been a life-saver. And, it was the first time we set boundaries with our little guy and it was so necessary. And, I really feel like it was good for him to learn how to handle a situation like this where he can't have every little thing (and good for us to do that too). And yes, he too gets almost everything else he wants (except for when he tries to pull me away from the toilet when I'm using it - that's another area in which I've set boundaries!)

I hope all is well with all the other night-weaners out there! BTW - has anyone been in the same situation with having their DC wake at 4am or so and then just drop it completely, or did anyone just decide to push it back themselves with success (or not)?


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## karin95 (Jun 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happy2bamama* 
What an interesting dynamic - are their ever times where you guys fight over who *has* to do it if you're busy with something else?!

*laugh* our kiddo is the fastest nurser in the East, so it's never been much of a burden. When he was younger, we switched off as much as possible, to keep both of our supplies up. Now it's just whoever is around, or whoever he asks to nurse from. He was preferring me for a while, but now will sometimes choose her when we're both around. At night we usually switch off in the middle.

[/quote]Okay, onto the night weaning - I'm not sure, but it seems to me like the part that might be confusing for your DS is that he is allowed to nurse, but just not fall asleep on the boob. I don't know how he'd do, but it might be easier for him to understand if it were just all or nothing. Just a thought - you guys know best though.







Good luck with tonight!
[/QUOTE]

I thought this, too, but apparently it's not confusing to him...the second night he actually got what was going on and accepted "last bite nurse". He cried for about 15 seconds and then laid his head on my arm and snuggled in and fell asleep. Last night he did the same thing. Unfortunately, I think allergy season is hitting us around here, and he was kinda snuffly, so it was hard for him to fall back to sleep. So he'd snuffle around, fall asleep, have a hard time breathing, wake up, cry a little, and repeat the process. I think I slept in 5-30 minute chunks. Not so great, as that's probably the worst night's sleep I've gotten since he was a newborn. But he wasn't crying or really awake much, so i think it's progress.

He also seems to really understand the "nurse is night-night" concept. I bored him to sleep a few times by reciting who all was "night-night" (e.g. "mama is night-night, mommy is night-night, nurse is night-night, gram is night-night, popop is night-night...." putting in all his friends, our relatives, everyone he's ever met in him whole life) he actually was listening, because I went through the whole litany and then he piped up with "nadia?" and i said, "yes, nadia is night-night" and he fell asleep. It was cute.

Tonight we're on to the second stage where he won't get any nursing between 11-6 and I'm nervous. I think we'll get more crying, which I hate, but he'll probably accept it.

I think he's getting a little clingier while he's falling asleep for the night, and I'm sad about that. I've been trying to talk about it during the day, say how it's daytime and he can have as much nurse as he wants and at nighttime nurse goes night-night, etc. So it's not just a scary nighttime thing that comes without warning. Hopefully he'll incorporate it well.

We're going to a bed and breakfast with my mom and aunt tomorrow for one night and i'm hoping that we can continue the process, but we don't want to keep the whole house awake...so I'm hoping tonight doesn't involve a lot of crying... *crosses fingers* If this works, in the end, I'll be the happiest mommy ever!


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karin95* 
I thought this, too, but apparently it's not confusing to him...the second night he actually got what was going on and accepted "last bite nurse". He cried for about 15 seconds and then laid his head on my arm and snuggled in and fell asleep. Last night he did the same thing. Unfortunately, I think allergy season is hitting us around here, and he was kinda snuffly, so it was hard for him to fall back to sleep. So he'd snuffle around, fall asleep, have a hard time breathing, wake up, cry a little, and repeat the process. I think I slept in 5-30 minute chunks. Not so great, as that's probably the worst night's sleep I've gotten since he was a newborn. But he wasn't crying or really awake much, so i think it's progress.

He also seems to really understand the "nurse is night-night" concept. I bored him to sleep a few times by reciting who all was "night-night" (e.g. "mama is night-night, mommy is night-night, nurse is night-night, gram is night-night, popop is night-night...." putting in all his friends, our relatives, everyone he's ever met in him whole life) he actually was listening, because I went through the whole litany and then he piped up with "nadia?" and i said, "yes, nadia is night-night" and he fell asleep. It was cute.

Tonight we're on to the second stage where he won't get any nursing between 11-6 and I'm nervous. I think we'll get more crying, which I hate, but he'll probably accept it.

I think he's getting a little clingier while he's falling asleep for the night, and I'm sad about that. I've been trying to talk about it during the day, say how it's daytime and he can have as much nurse as he wants and at nighttime nurse goes night-night, etc. So it's not just a scary nighttime thing that comes without warning. Hopefully he'll incorporate it well.

We're going to a bed and breakfast with my mom and aunt tomorrow for one night and i'm hoping that we can continue the process, but we don't want to keep the whole house awake...so I'm hoping tonight doesn't involve a lot of crying... *crosses fingers* If this works, in the end, I'll be the happiest mommy ever!









Well, it seems like you are making progress - that's good! The beginning is the hardest time because you are working out how it's all going to work, but the fact that he laid his head on your arm and fell asleep after only 15 seconds of crying is awesome. That's how my DS was - he would cry for just a short time and then after a month (at the most - I really can't remember now...), he didn't even cry at all, if he woke up, I would say that milkies were night night and he would settle in and go back to sleep. It's mindblowing to see them be able to do this!!! And you said it perfect when you said that you "bored" your DS to sleep by listing all the names of everyone you'd ever met who were night night! We do this too and that's exactly what happens - I don't think it's necessarily that he's thinking, "Oh, if Joe Shmoe is night night, maybe I should be night night," but rather that he knows I'm not gonna stop and the only way out for him is to fall asleep! Keep up the good work and I hope the night at the B&B goes alright for you guys


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## LandonsMom (Jul 22, 2005)

subbing, planning to start this soon, happy2beamommy, thanks so much for journalling your successed and concerns. I'm likley to get discouraged somewhere around day three and give up, but seeing you journal each day is really encouraging!

are you on other boards with the same SN, seems like i'm recognizing you from ds.com


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LandonsMom* 
subbing, planning to start this soon, happy2beamommy, thanks so much for journalling your successed and concerns. I'm likley to get discouraged somewhere around day three and give up, but seeing you journal each day is really encouraging!

are you on other boards with the same SN, seems like i'm recognizing you from ds.com

I'm glad my experiences have helped you







I am really passionate about this topic because it was a big turning point for us - in terms of sleep and in terms of loosening up a bit and setting some boundaries. I was sooooooo AP for the first year (which I think was wonderful and as it should be), but once DS was old enough to really understand things better (around 14 months), I found that giving him everything he wanted ALL the time was not serving anyone (even DS), so I am happy to post about it and help others who are feeling the same way.

And no, I don't frequent any other boards - I barely have the time for MDC!









Good luck with the night weaning - you can do it!


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## karin95 (Jun 30, 2006)

Thought I'd post a quick update...
We started the "nurse is night-night" between 11pm-6am...for one night. It didn't go well. And then we went away for the weekend, so we didn't do it then. We decided to keep up the "10 seconds on each side" plan for a little while longer, to get his belly used to not being full in order to fall back asleep. He did really well with it. When it was "last bite nurse", he would usually just pop off and roll over, or take his binky and fall asleep in snuggled up. In the early A.M. hours, he'd get a little more restless and need singing or his litany of "who is night-night". But it was fine.

So we did that for, um, a couple of weeks...oh well, modifying Dr. Gordon's plan is fine by me!

Anyway, 3 night ago, we went into the next phase - no nurse between 11-6. He cried. He was angry and sad and confused. But not scared, just like Dr. Gordon says. I didn't feel like I was doing something wrong, something bad for him. We try to explain to him why we're doing this, but he's only 19 months old, so he doesn't get it, obviously. This is something we NEED to do for us.

The first 2 wakings, he was actually fine. He cried for a few seconds, and then took his binky and fell asleep with snuggles.
Then, around 4am, he must have been more hungry because he just couldn't settle and was upset and *trying* to fall asleep. It was very brave of him. He fell asleep a few times for a few minutes at a time, but basically didn't sleep much until 5:45, at which point we nursed him. Then he slept fine until 7:30ish.

The next night, was more of the same. Except he *stole* a nurse (my partner woke up to him nursing!) around 1am. Unlike the night before, he did fall asleep before dawn, maybe it was only 1 hour of fussing and tossing/turning.

Last night, it was MUCH better. He didn't cry for more than a few seconds any waking. He woke up a handful of times (like usual), but fell back asleep with snuggles and singing. Then a little after 6, he woke up and nursed, but not even ravenously! and slept until 7:15am.

He's definitely sleeping better in the first part of the night (going from 7pm-10pm, when he used to wake up after 2 hours or so).

I'm hopeful for tonight!


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

A blast from the past!









Okay, so DS is now 22 months old and just went through the craziest stomach flu ever. Seven days of vomiting. Poor guy. So needless to say, he was nursing every couple of hours at night since breastmilk was the only thing he could keep down. Now that he's better, I am beyond ready to start nightweaning part two - anyone BTDT? Was your LO more stubborn the second time or was it easy? I find that the older the are, the more "opinionated" they are about it. Any tips?

TIA


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## mama2rey (Jan 31, 2007)

I saw this and felt a huge RELIEF!!! My LO is waking up about 5 times a night and it's just getting old. I'm tired-and most of all I often (like now) can't go back to sleep.

My son turns one on December 22. We will be visiting my parents that week-but will be doing this starting January 2.

I was getting desperate. Everyone has been telling me about CIO-I was tempted-but every time I read about it, I cringed.

Thank you thank you thank you!!


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## Bromache (Jan 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happy2bamama* 
A blast from the past!









Okay, so DS is now 22 months old and just went through the craziest stomach flu ever. Seven days of vomiting. Poor guy. So needless to say, he was nursing every couple of hours at night since breastmilk was the only thing he could keep down. Now that he's better, I am beyond ready to start nightweaning part two - anyone BTDT? Was your LO more stubborn the second time or was it easy? I find that the older the are, the more "opinionated" they are about it. Any tips?

TIA









I have no idea, but am very curious to find out what others have to say, too! We were nightweaned for a month, but he was still waking several times a night needing comforting, so I was still sleep-deprived. In that state, I accidentally gave him the boob one night before realizing what I was doing and now we're fully back to all-night-nurse-a-thons.







Last night was particularly bad... I think I got maybe two hours of sleep all night, broken up? Ugh. I feel really sick right now. We tried going back to the nightweaning last week and it was a DISASTER! I'm weary of going on like this, but scared to lose even more sleep trying to wean again. What to do?


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## AJHCFamily (Apr 19, 2007)

I recently subscribed to this thread after spending hours and hours reading about night-weaning. I wasn't ready to jump on board with a whole plan. I knew my follow-through wouldn't be 100%. I reevaulated our needs and realized that I really needed to "go-to-sleep-wean." Having DD only be able to sleep with me nursing her down was wearing me down and barely even working any more. I also really need her to stop waking 2-3 hours after going to bed and only being able to go back to sleep with nursing.

So, we switched up our routine and DD is adapting to the new bed time w/o nursing better than I expected (whines a little and insists on holding my belly button to sleep) but other than that I can see that she is learning how to go to lseep without nursing. A surprising result is that each time she has gone to sleep w/o nursing she has also not woken up at 10 or 11 for another nursing! Woohoo! This is big for us because I work at night and was getting really frustrated at feeling like I work for hours and getting so little done.

Anyway, a little off topic but I wanted to share this experience to say that a little change may go farther than you expect. I plan on working on the middle of the feedings down the road (and am hoping maybe, just maybe, that will start to happen on its own).


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

:


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Well, last night was better - DS went to sleep early around 7pm and didn't wake to nurse until 2:30am-ish, so that's a 7.5 hour stretch - almost back to usual







: Hopefully it will stick. He was nightweaned for so long before this terrible flu (8 months or so), so I am glad that he is reverting back without much problem. I also think that once he's eating a bit more for dinner, it will be easier because he won't be hungry.

Also, glad to see that other people are having success with the nightweaning.


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## crwilson (Mar 13, 2007)

I'm so glad to see this thread - I just spent way too much time reading it all. DD is almost 22 months, and I've been toying with nightweaning for months and months and months. I tried the Gordon plan for one night, but I couldn't take it. DD cried, in my arms, with singing, massages, walking, etc. for almost three hours. She did finally fall asleep without nursing, but I decided that she might need a more gradual approach. The past couple of nights we've been doing the Pantley pull-off thing, and she nurses for about 30 seconds if she wakes up at night. If she starts to cry, I put her back on. Last night, though, she only woke up a few times and was pretty willing to nurse for a few seconds and then just cuddle back to sleep. I'm thinking about trying no nursing at all tonight, but I don't know if I'll be able to stick to it if she gets too upset. Is it better to just continue on the path we're on (nursing a little bit and hoping that it will eventually taper off to nothing) or refuse nursing altogether? DD does not like change much at all and is very determined. But I'm worried that she won't actually stop nursing at night, albeit nursing only briefly.


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## Autumn C. (Jul 30, 2008)




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## justthinkn (Apr 11, 2008)

We just started nightweaning W night last week... I skipped straight to phase 2 of Gordon's plan, b/c we'd been living in phase 1 for awhile - so maybe technically we starting nightweaning months ago







Anyway, she already knew how to fall asleep after relatively short nursings and without nipple in mouth if I insisted. I chose 10:30-5:30a as my 7-hr sleep window, b/c DH's alarm goes off at 5:30, and we usually get up at 6 - so I figured that would give me and DD 30m to snuggle in bed and nurse in the morning. She often wakes to nurse for the first time around 10:30p, too, so I figured I could just keep that nurse, and try to eliminate the rest.

W night was hard b/c she was mad about not nursing and so couldn't relax. But I found a position (reclining against a few pillows and bear hugging her against my chest) that she really liked and would help her conk out off and on for decent stretches. Th night was much better - she was a little sad, but would get herself to sleep relatively quickly, without much support from me. And then F night...







:







:







:







:

She slept through the entire night for the first time in her life!!! 6.30p-5:30a!!!

Of course, then Sat night we dressed her inappropriately, and she woke up multiple times too hot or too cold.







: And she was mad about not nursing then... And last night she woke up a few times, but didn't get upset until about 4:30a, when she was really feeling ready to nurse. I think I need to remember to keep a sippy of water by the bed - I keep forgetting, partly b/c she's always rejected it as a stand-in for nursing in the past.

The other issue I'm dealing with is that she's 90% potty-learned, and she's realized that saying "potty" is a get-out-of-bed-free card. But she's really hoping that it'll be accompanied by nursing, so she gets upset...

Still, I feel so hopeful - I'm ready for more sleep, and the progression of W night to F night, STTN, makes me even more confident she's ready.


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## justthinkn (Apr 11, 2008)

Oh, I have to share one other thing about entering into this phase of nightweaning... I felt really ready and committed to it, but thought - yeah, I've felt that way before, and kind of lost steam at 3a







And this time, DD was definitely old enough for us to talk about it, but I didn't know what I would say or if some of my trepidations would come through...

So I made her a short little picture book, with photos of the two of us, and wrote about how much I love to hold her, and how I will give her soft words and gentle touches whenever she needs them at night, but snuggles would be night-night from X to Y, etc., and how great we will feel when we wake up, and how much fun we will have... Reading that through with her many times before the first night, and each day after, has been so cathartic for me, and helped me feel very calm and resolved, as well as gave me language to repeat in the middle of the night! The first morning, that book was the first thing she went and grabbed; she wanted to read it together, which I thought was really interesting. She seemed to make the connection...

Of course, in days since, she has preferred to skip over the page about when snuggles would be night-night


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *justthinkn* 
Oh, I have to share one other thing about entering into this phase of nightweaning... I felt really ready and committed to it, but thought - yeah, I've felt that way before, and kind of lost steam at 3a







And this time, DD was definitely old enough for us to talk about it, but I didn't know what I would say or if some of my trepidations would come through...

So I made her a short little picture book, with photos of the two of us, and wrote about how much I love to hold her, and how I will give her soft words and gentle touches whenever she needs them at night, but snuggles would be night-night from X to Y, etc., and how great we will feel when we wake up, and how much fun we will have... Reading that through with her many times before the first night, and each day after, has been so cathartic for me, and helped me feel very calm and resolved, as well as gave me language to repeat in the middle of the night! The first morning, that book was the first thing she went and grabbed; she wanted to read it together, which I thought was really interesting. She seemed to make the connection...

Of course, in days since, she has preferred to skip over the page about when snuggles would be night-night
















Thanks for sharing! What a great idea. Amazing how they do get the connection to things even if it seems like it's not necessarily getting through at the time.


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