# I don't think anyone can help me...



## valkyrina (Dec 18, 2007)

but i'm going to put it out there anyway.

I have 13-month-old twins who will. not. sleep. ever. I am completely at the end of my rope. I spend all night just hating them because I'm so exhausted, and it doesn't help me to be patient with them all day. I have started feeling lately like I don't even like them. They used to be happy, smiley, independent boys, and now they don't sleep all night and they are whiny, cranky, and clingy all day. All day I have two babies screaming in my face, and all night, too.

I feel like we have tried everything. Before they started solid foods, I did a total elimination diet and discovered that they were reacting to soy and dairy, so we have been incredibly careful with their diet. I don't think it's a dietary thing, since all the symptoms around that have cleared up. If it's a bad night and we think it might be teething, we give ibuprofen, even though we hate to do it. We saline and suck out their noses before bed. We nightweaned them a month ago. NOTHING WORKS. I don't know what is keeping them up or how to fix it. I have lost all hope that it will get better.

And I have a wonderful, supportive dh who does the nighttime thing until he just can't handle it anymore. He does so much, in fact, that I feel terrible because he is in med school and has to go to class in the morning. But at the same time, I am just so far beyond my limit. I absolutely can't handle it anymore. And yes, I hold a grudge. When I am tired all day (as I am every day), I feel so angry and resentful toward my babies. I have fantasies about just putting them in cribs (which we don't own) and buying earplugs and letting them figure it out on their own. I don't even feel bad for them when they cry at night; I just want them to shut up and go to sleep. I feel like a horrible mama.

I am trying to get some help right now for PPD because I think that's part of the problem, although I think that the PPD can also be traced directly back to lack of sleep. I just don't know what to do. I feel like crawling in a hole and crying myself to sleep. Help.


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## pixiekisses (Oct 14, 2008)

Have you read Elizabeth Pantelys The No-Cry Sleep Solution?
It helped us at one time.
http://www.pantley.com/elizabeth/books/0071381392.php

(Dunno how old they are, there's one for Toddlers aswell:
http://www.pantley.com/elizabeth/books/0071444912.php )


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## Pumpkin_Pie (Oct 10, 2006)

Oh mama.







I couldn't read this and not respond. Is there anyway you can drop them off with a friend or relative for a day and just sleep all day to at least catch up a bit on your rest and to recharge at least a teeny bit? Do they sleep with you? Have you tried putting them in a pack and play to sleep away from you to see if maybe it is getting too crowded in your bed? I don't really know what to say, but I have also been at the end of my rope in the middle of the night with my son, and I only have one. We have done the weeks (months?) at a time of not sleeping, and being a zombie during the day is so painful. I think you are having totally normal reactions to sleep deprivation. You need to figure out a way to at least get you some sleep so you can help your babes get the sleep they need too.

Sorry I am not offering more helpful suggestions. I hope more come here and offer help. Definitely start calling anyone who has said they would help and get a break for yourself. You so need and deserve it.


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## closedaccount15 (Dec 25, 2007)

my daughter also has allergies, so I know what it is like to be up at night. She has never slept well. You might want to have them checked for reflux, because my daughter also had issues with that. She is also allergic to egg, so there might be something else they are reacting to that you have missed. And a lot of time she just has gas that keeps her up.

I would recommend RAST testing or scratch testing (although my daughter has had negative results on the RAST test). And take them to a doctor, because while my daughter still does wake up at night, she goes through phases, so she will wake up every 2 hours for a few weeks, but I can see the teeth so I know that is what it is

If they are whiny and cranky all day, I would take them to a doctor and bring up the allergies. Sometimes the only symptoms my daughter shows is trouble sleeping and maybe a small rash. I would guess they may have intolerance to some other foods that aren't giving typical allergic responses

Also have you thought about seeing someone for the PPD? I had to use zoloft, because my daughter does not sleep either. I get so jealous of other mothers who kids sleep all night, after 18 months, I had a good night last night because my daughter was only up 3 times.

I hope it gets better for you, if you think it might be food related, let me know, maybe we can put our heads together and see if anything helps.


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## bente (Apr 1, 2002)

How were they sleeping before you nightweaned them? Is it possible that they are reacting to the weaning? Hugs to you mama


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## KimPM (Nov 18, 2005)

My DS never slept well either. At some point, my whole day was about getting him napping and getting him down to bed.

Yes, I think lack of sleep is probably the biggest offender in PPD. Eating well can help compensate a little bit for lack of sleep, but it's only a temporary fix.

I recently read another post about someone who has twins and they wake each other up...so she keeps them in cribs in separate bedrooms, also not in the same room with mommy & daddy. Is it possible they are keeping each other awake?

Have you tried mama sleeping with one twin in one room and daddy sleeping with the other twin in another room?

Some other thoughts...
Does driving them down in the carseat work?
Does a swing cause them to get sleepy, or at least relaxed? Is there somewhere you can mount an indoor swing? This saved us for awhile.
We also had an exercise ball and bouncing him on that helped calm him down, many times he would even go to sleep that way.
Does reading to them calm them down?


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## pelirroja (May 9, 2008)

I have often felt the desperation that I hear in your post...I can't imagine going through it with twins! You are an amazing mama for keeping it together for this long. I would say the first thing to do is call in the reinforcements - you need to take a break and get caught up on sleep. There is no shame in asking for help and taking some time to care for yourself. For the next three days, ask your dh to take over nighttime duties while you sleep with earplugs in another room. Drop off the twins at a friend's/relative's house during the day so you can go home to nap. Really, you need to take this time for yourself. After three days, hopefully you'll feel re-energized enough to tackle your twins' sleep issues. Hang in there - better days are ahead.


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## valkyrina (Dec 18, 2007)

Thanks for the support, mamas. I have never felt so awful, and I really don't see any end in sight.

I have read the No-Cry Sleep solution. It didn't work.
I have talked to their ped about reflux, food issues, etc. I am pretty sure that we are right on track with that. Any rashes they had have cleared up with the dietary changes.
We thought they might sleep better in their own bed, so they sleep on a queen mattress on the floor in their own room.
It's extremely rare that they wake each other up. Most nights, they trade off so that there is a baby awake at almost every moment of the night.
I don't think they are reacting to the nightweaning; it got better for a couple of nights and then went back to normal. This is normal for us. They have always slept poorly.
Our family lives 3 hours away, so there is no one close by to take them.
We read to them every night. We have a very consistent bedtime and routine. We keep the house cool at night, but not enough for them to be cold. We offer water sometimes at night. I feel like we have literally tried every trick in every book.

So I'm totally at a loss, and totally exhausted and angry and i hate everything. This is why I don't think anyone can help me. So I guess I'm starting to think: at what point does CIO become less harmful than hating your babies? (I feel horrible for even thinking that). ugh. help.


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## veganone (May 10, 2007)

Just







momma. I'm so sorry. I have one bad sleeper and just that is super hard and demoralizing. I hope that they improve soon. I am praying that DD's sleep improves when she finally has some teeth come through - she only has 2 and she has at least 4 trying to come out for the last month.

If you can find someone to watch them for an hour to nap (or have your DH take them for a drive or something on the weekend) so you can nap that would help. It helps me immensely to just know a nap and quiet are on the way. I work f/t, so it's hard for me to catch up, too.

Could you and your DH do shifts at night? Like you sleep for a solid 4 hours and then he does? It would mean little sleep for both of you, but at least a few solid hours each. I'd do that if DD was night weaned.


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## svmaine (Dec 29, 2006)

Hi again! Sorry I've been out of touch and as usual it's so hard for all of us southern Maine mama's to get together







. Anyways I don't know if I can help but I'm sending lots of sympathizing vibes your way







:. We had lots of trouble with my middle DS waking up throughout the night and the No-Cry book also didn't help. It's amazing how nasty I get when I'm exhausted, I cry through my day and am a complete bitch to my kids







. I think eventually he just started sleeping better, but it took at least 6 exhausting months for him to only have 1 wake-up during the night. We also have little support locally but things are getting better, I wish we were a bit closer!! If you get desperate enough please feel free to visit, we've got spare bedrooms and my boys would love to keep yours entertained while you catch up on some much needed rest!! I'm home Tuesdays and most Fridays.









Sarah


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## MrsAprilMay (Jul 7, 2007)

Have you tried to take them to the chiropractor? I know it sounds weird, but sometimes if they are out of alignment it can keep them up at night. Many chiros take insurance, and others offer pretty reasonable rates.

Also, did you nightwean them and move them to their own room all at the same time? That might be too much change too fast for them. Maybe you could move their bed back into your room for a while?

Good luck, mama!


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## ljc (Oct 14, 2008)

Oh I wish I could help you. I have twins that are three now and they have a big brother that is four. I can feel your pain. I cried through many a day and also suffered from post-partum depression.
I found it helpful to sleep for 5 uninterrupted hours. For me this was 7 - midnight. Closed my door - no kids - no husband. After that I was on so my husband could get some rest for work.
I must say that my babies did nap and did sleep (for the most part after 4 months). So I can't even imagine how badly you are feeling.
But sleep deprivation is like torture.
Is there a twins support group in your area - maybe you can find some support in being with other Moms. Maybe you tap into them for help with child care. Is there room in your budget to have someone come in to the home and help you. Maybe even while your home - so you can take a tub/shower, nap, etc.
Please don't beat yourself up. No one can no what you are going through.


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## Tofu the Geek (Dec 2, 2003)

In another thread, someone recommended Sleepless in America http://www.mothering.com/discussions...82&postcount=4

I haven't read it myself, but am interested in doing so.


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## PlayaMama (Apr 1, 2007)

as for the op, my friend has twins a month younger than my babe and it isn't easy. hers usually go down around 7-ish and then the more active one wakes up and comes into bed with her and nurses to sleep, he then gets passed to daddy to cuddle while baby number two gets nursed to sleep.

i can only think that you really need to get some sleep!!! i think the previous suggestion of 7-12 being your time to sleep and then your mate goes to sleep and you're on duty.

how about a stroller ride? we used to put my ds to sleep in the stroller and then just wheel it inside.

or any chance of co-sleeping? maybe if you just sleep on their bed with them so you get sleep too?

i hear you on the sleep deprivation though, when i need sleep i find myself eating chocolate chips by the handful and yelling at the dog too much







i wish i was closer to give you a break.

good luck mama!!! and huge hugs.


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## tm2840 (Feb 23, 2005)

I agree with the hugs in this post but, wow, it seems to me that you need those and the last paragraph (choc chips and a break) more than anything else!

I don't know what you should do... can do... will do. But I can tell you my story and maybe you'll feel better and like more of the options you have available.

I spent years and years not sleeping (esp with #1) and always being "the one in charge of the kids, 24/7."

My situation wasn't as extreme as yours (mine were singletons 3 years apart) but I remember when I lost it. Years of giving and not sleeping.... I really thought I was going to go insane from the "always on, almost 6 years of not sleeping through the night."

I talked to a friend who had been admitted to a hospital for a physical/psych eval shortly after the birth of her third child (her issue turned out to be physical, but she had a lot of advice for me!).

That made me realize that in my case being admitted wasn't likely to help. I saw my psychiatrist (I have seen one since '91 for anxiety) and he had no specific advice rather than to increase my Xanax. I saw my primary care doc. I had an EKG and a chest X-ray. Nothing.

So I LEFT MY HUSBAND AND KIDS FOR OVER 48 HOURS! I checked into a hotel/resort (cost including room service dinner $300 for two days). I slept. I slept. I slept and ate. I read. I slept. I felt crazy... but better.

For the next few months my husband was on night-time duty. I put in earplugs and took Xanax so I'd sleep. I felt guilty... but better.

After I was restored to myself I took over nights again and have had them for about 3 years. But I needed that break. Sometimes we all do.

I wrote this post not as a "you should do this" post, but as an example of a very AP parent's experience. After 7 years of being either pregnant or nursing, always being the one to go to the children at night... that's where *I* ended up. And that's our solution.

I hope you find your "right solution" and are happy with it. We're all different.







s


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## **Cat** (Oct 9, 2007)

Hello fellow twin mama!

I haven't read all the responses so please forgive me if this is a repeat, but do you think it might be time for cribs? You can get cribs new, used, whatnot- but I know that I had to give up on co-sleeping with my twins at 10 months because they were becoming mobile and I was worried about them crawling out of the cribs that were set up like co-sleepers and then falling off the bed after we put them to bed.

They couldn't make it past like 7:00 being up so they needed to go to bed way sooner than I was prepared to.

We were sad to put them in cribs but it's really turned out good in the longrun.

They never did cry-it-out, they were happy to go to sleep in their cribs. They're happy all sprawled out in there and I can relax knowing they're safe.

Maybe they just want their own space?

I hope that helps! I'd get a couple of used cribs this weekend at good will or Uncle Henry's or something this weekend and set them up and give it a try. You and your husband can soothe them to sleep and hopefully soon they start putting themselves to sleep. It's not a bad thing if it's peaceful! I love the setup. I feel like we co-slept as long as it was good for everyone and once it became more of a problem then a solution, we stopped and now we all sleep happily independently.

Take care, and don't feel badly for your feelings. I remember feeling that way when I was sleep deprived too.







:

I think that them sharing a mattress might be causing problems as well... I just think some toddlers like being in their crib. I know mine do.

Toddlers and babies ARE supposed to sleep. They need more sleep than the rest of us do and they're at the age when they can keep themselves up and they don't understand that they need sleep. It's easy to get up and walk off a mattress, but they can't walk off a crib.

Do they take sippy cups or bottles at all?

My girls get bottles of milk in their cribs if they wake up to help them soothe back down. They don't fall asleep with them in their mouths... and they never did that before but I think they might need more milk at night at this age. They're 16 months old- Anyway, GOOD LUCK!!!!


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## milkybean (Mar 19, 2008)

"It's easy to get up and walk off a mattress, but they can't walk off a crib."

Hubby got out of his crib and hid in his room starting at 9 months old.

Since you've tried so much else....

chiropractic.

craniosacral therapy.

rescue remedy (for everyone).

visit with a homeopath to find their constitutional remedies that will help them be better in all ways, which might very well help their sleep.

make sure you're not drinking coffee or caffeinated tea. My son wasn't sensitive to normal amounts, but one day I had two grande lattes in one day, and for some reason the 4 shots of espresso got to him! we were up all night that night. if you're having caffeine it might be getting to them.

I thought I had another, but it disappeared from my brain.


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## earthmama4 (Oct 13, 2008)

I think it is important for you to catch up on some sleep before you do any changes though. When you are sleep deprived you aren't rational - and you could have a total emotional meltdown at the sound of your babies crying if you did the CIO and the whole thing would backfire and you'd be worse off than when you started.

Not only that, it is in your babies best interest if you get some rest. Your disconnection from them sounds like it is reaching a critical point and you don't want to do or say something you would not otherwise do or say if you were rested. Chronic lack of sleep is a seriously debilitating issue. This is priority. If you don't have any family or friends that can take the babies for the day so you can sleep, find an alternative care - like a drop off hourly care center. Even if its pricy, this is priority. Its not a money or convenience issue, its a health issue that is severely affecting you and your children.

Better yet, if your town has a "crisis nursery", I would use that. I work for a school district in an early childhood home-visit support program and we recommend our city's crisis nursery to parents who are stressed to the max and just need a break because they are at the breaking point. They take children up to 5 yrs no questions asked for up to 24 hours (even overnight). They will not call CPS or give you a lecture about how to parent. They are wonderful, warm, non-judgemental and a great free resource to stressed out parents. I don't know how you may best find one - does your state have a 211 number to call? Here that is the number to call for any welfare resources needed (food, shelter, medical care, etc). You could also try a web search with crisis nursery and your home city.

Please do something to recharge. Even if you have to drive 3 hours to family and recruit their help - do it. I lived 4 hours away from my family and there were times in that 8 years I HAD to go home and get some love and support.

In the meantime, sleep every chance you get, even if its only 20 minute naps throughout the day. I fear nothing is going to improve until mamma gets recharged and then you will be fully present mentally and physically to solve this problem. You will know what to do at that point because your mother's intuition will not be clouded by the very real effects of lack of sleep.

Wishing you peace and rest and love,

Amy


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## amynbebes (Aug 28, 2008)

I apologize if this has already been discussed or suggested.
Do they nap during the day?
I've often read and heard that sleep begets sleep. They may be over tired if they're not napping.


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## amynbebes (Aug 28, 2008)

Quote:

We keep the house cool at night, but not enough for them to be cold.
Another thing, maybe they'll sleep better if it's warm? I used to jokingly say that I cooked my now 5 yr old to sleep. Realistically though, when he was around the age of 2 he would not take a much needed nap unless we went for a ride in the car and it was slightly warm. I know that I sleep better if I'm slightly warm rather than slightly cool.


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PlayaMama* 
i just took issue with the "supposed to" line above. how are babies "supposed to" sleep? we are all individuals and some of us sleep differently, and i don't think that a recommendation for CIO so the kiddos sleep like they are "supposed to" is very helpful.

"Supposed to" as in "supposed to sleep", as in all human beings are supposed to sleep. This child I was referring to was NOT sleeping. Two hours a night is not what a child needs. She needed to sleep because children (and adults) are SUPPOSED to sleep. Is that clearer?


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

Since they're nightweaned how about sippy cup of water at night.
Both my kids nightweaned around 18-19 mos and I gave them water for their thirst. Quick sip then back to dreamland.
Also the hum of the A/C puts my kids out
one more thing..at 13 mos they may still be getting hungry at night. Dr. Jay Gordon's method worked better for us then Elizabeth Pantley.
I have also heard that letting in the night air helps kids sleep.
Good luck!


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## mom2annika (Mar 30, 2006)

This is what worked for us:

The thought of CIO makes me sad, and it drove me crazy the one time I was desperate enough to try it. That said, we did what I called the "five-minute rule". (We couldn't co-sleep for safety reasons.) I'd nurse, rock, and sing (the same lullaby each time), then put DD down for 5 minutes in the crib. Sometimes I set the kitchen timer. Other times I used the clock on the desktop while I checked my email. If she was still crying after 5 minutes, or if the pitch changed, I'd go back and repeat the nurse/rock/sing procedure.

Before that point, I was up til all hours with a babe who rarely got sleepy. Sometimes if I was lucky she'd drop from exhaustion around midnight and sleep for a couple hours, but I can totally relate to your frustration. Only there was only one of her and you have two! Big hugs, mama.

It took a looong time, but she eventually got to the point where she'd sleep. I still sing the same lullaby to her every night (she's almost 3.5 y.o. now).

GL!


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## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

I'm not sure if this will help: but, could they be alergic to gluten? I ask this because I have bad gluten alergies, and there are no visible signs that show outward on the skin. However, I suffer from extreme fatigue, irregular sleep, digestive problems, horrible stomachaches that feel like I want to be gutted out, joint and muscle pain, full body aches, and the list goes on. It is all internal, and it is hard when someone, such as a baby, cannot communicate.

Sometimes, gluten alergies don't come on instantly. Some may have instantanious reactions, such as a baby beginning solids, and others may take a few months, weeks or years. It is different for every sufferer. For me, it took several years until I began having problems--at around seven years of age. I wasn't diagnosed until I was in my early twenties. I suffered and stayed very sick all that time.

Try talking to your doctor about that: or you could take the route I went, which is first eliminating all gluten containing foods, as I had suspected this was my problem, take careful note of results, and then keeping a careful log. If you notice changes, this is it. Take the log to your doctor, explain what you feel, and ask for a blood test. The blood test for antibodies is the first step. Sometimes, they do come up negative, and further testing is needed.

I wish you the best. Keep us posted, please. And, if it actually is a gluten problem, talk to me, and I'll help you through it giving you a plethora of recipes that will make life easier. They are quick and simple and won't involve too much work for preparation. I'm very busy, as I own my own company plus attend the local college making time an extreme commodity. So, quick and easy is best. The same goes for parents. Just let me know.

I'll pray for you.

Oh, I forgot to add, white noise works wonders. I'm grown and still use it. Give it a try.


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## lactivist (Jun 14, 2005)

I have removed several posts that either advocated CIO, quoted a post that advocated CIO or mentioned a removed post If you have any questions or concerns, please PM me.

Please remember that it's inappropriate to uphold or advocate any form of Crying It Out. From the Family Bed and Nighttime Parenting Forum Guidelines:

Quote:

The Family Bed and Nighttime Parenting Welcome to The Family Bed and Nighttime Parenting forum. This forum is intended to serve this advocacy and support and encourage parents in co-sleeping, even through the difficulties that arise. When a parent posts here to discuss struggles with co-sleeping and asks for advice members should post with suggestions to ease problems and encouragement to support co-sleeping, not to advise against it. Posts of that nature are not appropriate. If parents come to a decision that their child sleeps better in his or her own space, discussions here can be in support of how to best parent such a child at night in a nurturing way.
Also from the MDC User Agreement

Quote:

Mothering.com is the website of natural family living and advocates natural solutions to parenting challenges. We host discussion of nighttime parenting, loving discipline, natural birth, homebirth, successful breastfeeding, alternative and complementary home remedies, informed consent, and many other topics from a natural point of view. *We are not interested, however, in hosting discussions on the merits of crying it out*, physical punishment, formula feeding, elective cesarean section, routine infant medical circumcision, or mandatory vaccinations. We do not tolerate any type of discrimination in the discussions, including but not limited to racism, heterosexism, classism, religious bigotry, or discrimination toward the disabled. We will not host discussions that involve explicit sexual references and are cautious about discussions on volatile topics such as abortion, religion, and race. See statement of purpose below.
Please appreciate that this forum is not a place to uphold or advocate CIO (Crying It Out). Personal preferences for and encouragement of the use of CIO and similar sleep training methods are inappropriately posted here. Posts of that nature will be edited by the member upon request or will be removed.

Please feel free to discuss your problems and needs with the intent to learn more about co-sleeping and the family bed.

If you see a post that you feel violates the Forum Guidelines or the MDC User Agreement, please use the triangular post report button located on the bottom left-hand side of the post in question or contact me or BathrobeGoddess, the forum moderators. Thanks so much!

Wendi
Moderator of Family Bed and Nighttime Parenting


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## MaterPrimaePuellae (Oct 30, 2007)

I know your husband is in medical school, but is it possible that you could divide and conquer for a few nights (each take one baby) to see what happens? I know you say that they don't seem to wake each other, but all that activity going on around each of them is probably still disruptive. Maybe if each of you just has to worry about one baby (and this would be easier since they are now night-weaned), you'll each be able to cope (even if your sleep situation is not ideal).
My DD has recently begun waking 4-5 times a night (she's 19 mos), and it is wearing me down.







You definitely have my sympathy and absolutely zero judgment from me about your desperate feelings!


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## valkyrina (Dec 18, 2007)

Wow, mamas. Thank you all so much for your support. I don't know what happened, but we all actually slept last night! Owen slept for ten hours straight, and Jonah only woke once, at one, and went right back down. Dh decided the night before last that they were waking up and just 'waiting out' until I would nurse them, because we had said that they could nurse anytime after five. But five am looks exactly like 1 am, so we thought they were just waiting to nurse all night long. And we talked to them about it that night and said, "okay, no nursing until the sun is up" (or the light gets turned on at six), and after one night of it, we had a great night last night.

Dh and I also decided to take shifts. I'm on from 8-1, and he's on from 1-6. I feel like he got the short end of the stick, because the end of the night is always the hardest.

But the world is a much rosier place after last night. I think it was the first time since they've been born that I have gotten seven consecutive hours of sleep. I'm not holding out much hope that it will happen again, let alone on a regular basis. and I'm still having a hard time; you can't be that sleep-deprived for that long without some lasting effects. But we had a good day today. I feel grateful.

TechnoGranola: thanks. I have Sleepless in America on request at the library, as of a few minutes ago.

MrsAprilMay: I was thinking of this too. Dh goes to an osteopathic med school, so I was thinking about taking the boys in to get an adjustment from someone there who does pediatric OMM.

I don't think it's food allergies because we have been very careful and monitor them constantly when we introduce new foods. I also don't think it's gluten, because they ate homemade bread with dinner last night.

I'm so so so so so so relieved not to be thinking about CIO anymore; it was absolutely the last thing I wanted to do. So here's hoping dh had the right idea, and here's hoping we can all get some rest!


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## veganone (May 10, 2007)

Yay!!! I tend to get a good night when I most need it, too. Right when I hit my breaking point. Of course, I don't think I've ever had DD wake less than 4 times. I think I'd freak if she slept for 10 hours!!! I'm really glad last night was good - I wish you more of those. I think that splitting up the shifts is a great idea.


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## PlayaMama (Apr 1, 2007)

so glad to hear your update!!


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## valkyrina (Dec 18, 2007)

So last night was horrible again, but I think we both felt more equipped to handle it after one good night's rest. I made an appointment for some counseling for PPD, although I genuinely believe that I would be fine if I could be well-rested in general.

On an off-topic note, a friend of mine who has similar sleep issues (although just with one baby, thank goodness!) has started letting her baby CIO because her ped told her to (!!!!!) She said she felt she had to because it was affecting her marriage and she was afraid her husband was starting to not like their baby. Seeing her be sad about it makes me really really not want to do CIO (and it was already the last thing I wanted to do). I am just hoping we can find a way to stick it out until they start STTN on their own.


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## canadianchick (May 18, 2005)

There is another thread somewhere in the single parenting section about a toddler who was not sleeping well. I will see if I can find it and post it. But if I remember correctly, the mom was having trouble because she had decided to stop nursing but then when her baby was up night after night, she gave in and nursed him/her, which just reinforces the behavior. I know this sounds mean and I do not mean for it to but if you are going to stop night nursing, then you need to stop nursing. Period.The long term effects on your kids if you are feeling the way you say you are feeling is not good.


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## MillingNome (Nov 18, 2005)

I just skimmed the post as I feel out of place here (my kids are 9 and 14) so forgive me if this has already been mentioned....

I saw one person mentioned that they checked into a hotel to catch up on sleep. I think she said it was some $400. Money well spent I'm sure. I have no idea how much money you have but what about getting a nighttime babysitter a couple days...errr... nights a week. You would be able to get a little more sleep at least once in while. Or maybe a "mother's helper" to come by and let you take a nap in the afternoon. I remember reading somewhere that the number one thing to ward off ppd was getting enough sleep. Unfortunately, it is also next to impossible at time! I dunno, a night time sitter could be a good thing if you can find the right nightsitter for your little guys....


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## PlayaMama (Apr 1, 2007)

sorry to hear it was bad again. but at least now you know they CAN have a night of restful sleep.

some questions that come to mind:
what did you do differently that day?
are they getting enough physical activity?
is it better if you sleep with them on their bed?

i night weaned my ds at about the same age and we had a difficult time for a few nights but once he got it that we weren't nursing any more then was fine. i wanted until he was able to understand "boobahs go night-night" and we held and sung to him and read until he fell asleep.

he still slept in bed with us though so he had the closeness.

best of luck mama!


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## chi_mama (May 25, 2008)

my sister uses one of those light-sensing night lights for her kids. If the night light is on it's time for sleeping, when the nightlight is off (the sunlight turns it off) then they can get out of bed. I was thinking it may help with signaling nursing times for you guys.
In my experience my PPD left along with sleep deprivation. Still I wish I had seen someone about it.
Best of luck!


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## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *valkyrina* 
Wow, mamas. Thank you all so much for your support. I don't know what happened, but we all actually slept last night! Owen slept for ten hours straight, and Jonah only woke once, at one, and went right back down. Dh decided the night before last that they were waking up and just 'waiting out' until I would nurse them, because we had said that they could nurse anytime after five. But five am looks exactly like 1 am, so we thought they were just waiting to nurse all night long. And we talked to them about it that night and said, "okay, no nursing until the sun is up" (or the light gets turned on at six), and after one night of it, we had a great night last night.

yes - when I nightweaned it meant no nursing until we were up for the day (after breakfast I think). I felt that DS would do the same thing - wake up _to nurse_ as opposed to when he was younger and he seemed to wake for other reasons and nursing helped him sleep during those months. Slowly night nursing started to disrupt his sleep instead of help it (during his 2nd year though. 18 mos or so).


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