# I'm I the only one who thinks it's not a big deal?



## Dauno (Apr 14, 2008)

So i invited over our new neighbor last weekend, she has a 5 year old little boy just like DD. So they where playing outside everything was fine, DD loves to play in the dirt and loves to make mud pies so the kid did the same. So i had to nurse DD2 and the woman and I where in DD's room and DD came in, dirty of course saying that she wants to change clothes so she did and when she started undressing the mum said to the kid "Honey cover your eyes you shouldn't see girls nakey honey it's not right" I didn't said anything though, DD was upset afterwards though.
I personally don't see the big deal of it really, they're kids


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## KA29 (Jan 8, 2006)

I don't see a huge deal but I would say without knowing the background, I wouldn't be bothered by what she said either. She may have a reason why she felt the need to enforce that boundary. My experience is that around that age, kids start to want more privacy so she may have been trying to be sensitive to the needs of the kids too.


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## elmh23 (Jul 1, 2004)

Yes, they are just kids, but I personally do not want my daughter to be naked in front of anyone she doesn't have to be. Right now, that's everyone except Daddy and I and either of the grandmothers if they are watching her and she needs a change of clothes.

Modesty is something that I want to instill in my children and maybe that is what the other mother wants for her son.


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## S.Raine-Drop (Apr 5, 2008)

I don't think it's a big deal either, but I'm surprised as a little 5 year old girl she wasn't like "eew I'm not letting a boy see me naked!" or something lol.

I agree with elmh23 though, I want my daughter to be reasonably modest as well.


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## mntnmom (Sep 21, 2006)

I don't think it's a big deal either. My DD is about to turn 5, so I'm trying to teach her to respect the modesty of others. But DD and DS1 both go to german kindergarten. There is a unisex bathroom, and they often chnge in front of each other to go outside etc. Nudity has yet to be an issue at our house.


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

Maybe she didn't think it was a big deal but wanted to put on a show for your concern of privacy? I mean what if you did think it was a big deal and she hadn't said anything?


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Wow, that's awful!! My kids are not at all modest, and I would be really upset if another mom said something like that in front of them. I don't think I would invite them back.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

My daughter isn't particularly modest. It isn't a big deal, but I don't like the idea of my daughter having a sense of shame presented to her.


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## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

I've got a streaker .. he's 5.5 years old and still wont wear bottoms in the house. He's been known to run outside with just a t-shirt on and call for this little girl neighbor to come play with him.









So yeah, I'm trying to instill not modesty (I think that might be impossible!!) but some basic understanding that we are expected to be clothed in public and not to go out undressed. As far as changing in front of another child .. I personally wouldn't mind, but I know people that would. So I would probably make no big deal about it, but have the kids get changes in different spots. Purely in case it would bother the other parent.

I would be irked if my son felt shamed or like he was doing something wrong by changing with another child.


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

I don't think kids of opposite genders that age should be nude in front of each other barring sibling relationships.


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## amitymama (Nov 17, 2006)

Personally, I think that's OTT for my tastes. I don't want my kids having hang ups about their bodies, especially from such a young age. I would've been more embarrassed at what she said than the neighbour boy seeing my daughter naked! If she was uncomfortable she should have just made an excuse to leave the room with him for a few minutes, not made your daughter feel ashamed or awkward.


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## aprons_and_acorns (Sep 28, 2004)

I think it's normal for different families to have different ideas about modesty and nudity. I don't think you were weird to start undressing DD and I don't think your friend was weird for asking DS to cover his eyes. It's not a big deal either way IMO.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aprons_and_acorns* 
I think it's normal for different families to have different ideas about modesty and nudity. I don't think you were weird to start undressing DD and I don't think your friend was weird for asking DS to cover his eyes. It's not a big deal either way IMO.









:

This exchange wouldn't have even registered on my radar if my friend had been the one to say what your friend said, OP -- it doesn't really make a difference to me either way whether my friends want their kids seeing other kids naked.


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## nicole lisa (Oct 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amitymama* 
If she was uncomfortable she should have just made an excuse to leave the room with him for a few minutes, not made your daughter feel ashamed or awkward.

I agree. DS is 7.5 and he and his friends (mixed gender) will still change in front of each other if we're out and about and they get covered in mud or soaking wet in the river and we still have stuff to do once we leave the park.


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## Rigama (Oct 18, 2005)

totally not a big deal to me, but her use of the word "Nakey" really ooks me out.


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## littleaugustbaby (Jun 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
My daughter isn't particularly modest. It isn't a big deal, but I don't like the idea of my daughter having a sense of shame presented to her.

I agree. I have no problem with the mom not wanting her son to see her naked, to each their own. But I don't like that she went about it in a way that was upsetting to your DD.


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## Aliviasmom (Jul 24, 2006)

I sent my 3 year old daughter over to play at a friends house the other day. They have a boy who's almost four and a girl who is 2. When I went to pick up my daughter, the mom told me that all three kids took a bath together. Did it faze me that she was in a bath tub, naked, with a child the same age but different gender? Not in the slightest. I was more upset (although I contained it, because the mom didn't know, and I never thought to tell her) that she took a bath with bubbles since my daughter has skin issues.


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## Peony (Nov 27, 2003)

I'd be irked at how she said it as well, I wouldn't want the children, especially my child, to think it's shameful. DD1 is 5y and isn't nakid that often anymore in front of others, we used to have whole packs of nakid children running everywhere when friends came over, but she still isn't phased by it and neither am I.


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## Freud (Jan 21, 2008)

I don't think it's a big deal either. She shoulda been nicer, but maybe she was just a little shocked about it all and didn't think before she spoke.


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## Dauno (Apr 14, 2008)

I'm Spaniard people, we're more open to nudity







. Also we have other people who are not uncomfortable about it, she's the first person that have said something about it.
DD loves to be in the nude or in panties running around the place and she've seen little boys around her age naked, we're very open about nudity.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aprons_and_acorns* 
I think it's normal for different families to have different ideas about modesty and nudity. I don't think you were weird to start undressing DD and I don't think your friend was weird for asking DS to cover his eyes. It's not a big deal either way IMO.

This is how I see it, too. But I'm sorry that she upset your dd. If it were my dd, I'd just explain that different families do things differently. With my own children, by this age they're wearing clothes around people outside the family -- but I certainly wouldn't freak out if I were in someone's home and their child started changing.

I agree with Sharlla, that maybe she was having her son cover his eyes out of respect for your dd's privacy. I don't agree with your neighbor's choice of words -- but then again, I wouldn't decide to never invite her back over this.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

I guess I always assume a higher level of modesty around company fopr me and my chidlren. While there was nothign wrong with your dd changing in her room (where else would she change) I don't think there was anything with wrong with the moms standard of modesty either. you have to draw the line sometime. I think we started around the age of 4 with no changing in front of boys as a rule and before that would generally sek a boy free zone for changing. Just because I didn't want to have to make a big deal out of it later. if you start early it is just what we do and not a new rule .. ya know.

either way when we have guests, especially new guests, we just try to go above and beyond to not offend. at the same time I don't think you ned to apologize or anything as your dd did nothing wrong.


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## Anglyn (Oct 25, 2004)

I guess Im a ******* hick cuz my nearly five year old dd will strip in the middle of mcdonalds or at the local park if she spills something, "mommy, I need a new shirt" and before I know it, shes bare! And at her age, I dont see anything wrong with it. I guess I never did.

I remember once when I was about 12 and a girls shrit got torn and it was this big deal.....cuz her nipple showed, and I remember thinking, "so? Shes got nothing there yet..." I could not understand the uproar it caused. I guess Im part nudist!


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KA29* 
I don't see a huge deal but I would say without knowing the background, I wouldn't be bothered by what she said either. She may have a reason why she felt the need to enforce that boundary.

I agree. My DD just turned 6 and is very sensitive about anyone seeing her without clothes and vice versa. She is only comfy at home in front of her dad and I and her brothers. So if we were in someone's house and a boy her age started to undress I'd likely say the same thing or take her out of the room because of her shyness around naked people she barely knows.


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## LotusBirthMama (Jun 25, 2005)

It wouldn't have bothered me if someone said that. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion as far as what their kids see. I would have felt bad had my DD been the one whose feelings got hurt but I would have explained, "In their home they change privately." I certainly do not for one second think the woman was trying to shame the OP's DD.


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## aprildawn (Apr 1, 2004)

Yeah, my oldest DD is also a streaker. She came running into the backyard naked yesterday to play in the water. She was naked because she couldn't find the swimsuit she wanted to wear! I'm sure had it been the front yard she would have done the same.









We're working to teach her about modesty and that different people have different comfort levels when it comes to nudity.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

My dd is four and she doesn't undress in front of other kids. I would also have asked my son to turn around in the situation you described.


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## madskye (Feb 20, 2006)

I don't think nudity is a big deal, especially between young children. I could see if she had offered you some privacy, though, but I wouldn't be shocked or concerned about a 5 year changing in the same room as me or my child.


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## Elastagirl (May 24, 2005)

my 5-year old son has always changed, taken baths, etc with us, his sister, his friend who's a girl, and it's no big deal to us. However; I have noticed that if someone comes over to the house (We're talking my mom, his babysitter, etc) and he's just in a shirt and underwear, he runs upstairs to put pants/shorts on. Heck, my husband normally goes around the house in undies and a t-shirt, but ds is developing his own sense of modesty. Not sure how he started feeling so modest in our laid-back household, but I respect it and I don't want to make him uncomfortable. So maybe that mom was just trying to avoid either her son or your daughter feeling uncomfortable later?

...except I don't like that she said, "It's wrong..." that does project shame into the situation...


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## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

I'm very anti-naked, especially with kids around the opposite sex. My dd will only be naked infront of one male figure--her father. Her older step brothers, grandpa, etc have never and will never see her naked. I will teach my dd very early about modesty. Very early. Strict rules will be set forth about being naked in my family, as well as other things in this field of topic that I won't go into.

If a 5 yr old boy stripped naked infront of my 5 yo daughter, I probably would have said something similiar....and would have talked with my dd _again_ about the fact that nobody should ever show her a penis--that it is wrong in our beliefs. To each their own. This is my belief. I'm well aware of how much I'm going to "scar my child" because of my beliefs so no need to bash me...I've heard it all before


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## nicole lisa (Oct 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
My dd is four and she doesn't undress in front of other kids. I would also have asked my son to turn around in the situation you described.

Just wondering why wouldn't you two just quietly slip out of the room? Saying something can make the kid changing feel it's his/her problem instead of the more modest family's problem. In the OP's case her daughter was upset by the words/actions used and it was her room visitors were in. If I were worried when she first came in and announced she needed to change I would have just said "great. We'll see you back in the kitchen/living room/whatever when you;re finished" and left. Turning a kid away from a child's body when she's changing (even without the "it's not right" being said) sends the changing child the message that she's doing something wrong/shameful.


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## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

Quote:

Turning a kid away from a child's body when she's changing (even without the "it's not right" being said) sends the changing child the message that she's doing something wrong/shameful.
And the mother with the boy probably thought exactly that--it was wrong and shameful for her son to see a naked female and/or for the female to be stripped infront of a male like an animal. _I_ think it's wrong and shameful...and IM(unworthy)O, the OP should've had more respect for her daughter to not strip her infront of A) A stranger and B)someone of the opposite sex (who was also a stranger). That just goes back to everyone's views are different. I haven't met anyone IRL who is pro-naked and boys/girls stripping infront of another, etc. Never. I think it's down right sick and disrespectful. But that's just me (and anyone around here I've ever talked to)


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## treqi (Dec 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
and IM(unworthy)O, the OP should've had more respect for her daughter to not strip her infront of A) A stranger and B)someone of the opposite sex (who was also a stranger). ......... I haven't met anyone IRL who is pro-naked and boys/girls stripping infront of another..........

Bu the OP didn't "strip" her dd the dd started taking her clothes off all by herself so the dd obviously felt comfortable to be naked....... I'm not a nudist but still can't see anything wrong with a little girl being naked in her own room if she feels comfortable with who is there ......

Quote:

"Honey cover your eyes you shouldn't see girls nakey honey it's not right"
the other mom could have just said "oh you're changing we'll give you some privacy" not "cover your eyes.... its not right" that is rude.......


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Not a big deal here either. I have a 4 year old boy who has changed in and out of swim clothes in front of boy and girl friends the same age and they have as well.

I'm not a fan of a parent telling a child how they *should* feel, like the mother in the OP's story. I think it can lead to confusion or shame in some kids.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
And the mother with the boy probably thought exactly that--it was wrong and shameful for her son to see a naked female and/or for the female to be stripped infront of a male like an animal. _I_ think it's wrong and shameful...and IM(unworthy)O, the OP should've had more respect for her daughter to not strip her infront of A) A stranger and B)someone of the opposite sex (who was also a stranger). That just goes back to everyone's views are different. I haven't met anyone IRL who is pro-naked and boys/girls stripping infront of another, etc. Never. I think it's down right sick and disrespectful. But that's just me (and anyone around here I've ever talked to)









Wow, I'd hardly equate a 5 yr old changing her own clothes as being "stripped like an animal". It certainly isn't an idea I'd want to plant in my daughter's head...


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Sick and disrespectful? For young, very pre-pubescent children, to see each other naked?









Wow. My daughter has swam naked with kids when she's forgotten her bathing suit. That must be CPS-worthy.


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## hibana (Jun 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aprons_and_acorns* 
I think it's normal for different families to have different ideas about modesty and nudity. I don't think you were weird to start undressing DD and I don't think your friend was weird for asking DS to cover his eyes. It's not a big deal either way IMO.









: I might've put out some feelers with the mom (later and privately) just to try and see what her family's stance on modesty was, to prevent any awkward moments in the future. Kids being naked doesn't bother me, but I wouldn't want to make her uncomfortable again, and thereby create a situation in which the children feel uncomfortable about their bodies. And I might let her know that her wording wasn't the best, but she may not have been thinking about how it sounded at the time.


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## teachma (Dec 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BabyBlanketGawki* 
I'm surprised as a little 5 year old girl she wasn't like "eew I'm not letting a boy see me naked!" or something lol.

Really? I'd be very surprised if my daughter, at 5 (next year), feels this way! She is uninhibited thus far, as is my 7 year old son. For better or worse, they'd both pretty much get naked in front of anyone at this point in time. I guess i haven't done a good job of instilling modesty.


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## nicole lisa (Oct 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *teachma* 
She is uninhibited thus far, as is my 7 year old son. For better or worse, they'd both pretty much get naked in front of anyone at this point in time.

Ds and his best friend (7.5 and 7) are the same way. No modesty at all and it doesn't matter who's around.


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## Dauno (Apr 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
And the mother with the boy probably thought exactly that--it was wrong and shameful for her son to see a naked female and/or for the female to be stripped infront of a male like an animal. _I_ think it's wrong and shameful...and IM(unworthy)O, the OP should've had more respect for her daughter to not strip her infront of A) A stranger and B)someone of the opposite sex (who was also a stranger). That just goes back to everyone's views are different. I haven't met anyone IRL who is pro-naked and boys/girls stripping infront of another, etc. Never. I think it's down right sick and disrespectful. But that's just me (and anyone around here I've ever talked to)









Ok this is







: and









First of all, DD was not totally naked she had panties on that she was about to remove when she heard that comment.
Second, the animal thing that you mention is sicker, really you and i have different views in parenting which is totally obvious.
Third, respect for my daughter, really you don't know my child and she is not ashamed to get undressed or being naked infront of other people and actually the comment of that mum surprised me and her both other parents don't seem to care about it.
Well maybe you haven't meet a pro-naked person, but i do and all of the parents i know are "pro-naked"
You are the one who's sick and disrrespectful









DD gave me the look of "Did i did something wrong?" , so tat's no good.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:

Just wondering why wouldn't you two just quietly slip out of the room?
We might do that. By "have them turn around," I didn't mean doing what the OP described. I meant having them turn around.


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## aprildawn (Apr 1, 2004)

It's interesting to see the two perspectives here. The "pro-naked" vs "anti-naked" makes me chuckle a little bit, though.









My family has more conservative views about sexuality than is expressed on MDC from what I'd say is a majority of the mamas here. However, my oldest DD (almost 6) is a total nudist, and it doesn't really bother me. I am sensitive that it might bother others for their children of a similar age to see my DD running around nude, so we've started asking her to please not come downstairs naked if we have company over, etc. She no longer bathes with boys of the same age, etc.

I guess my view is twofold: 1) pre-pubescent children aren't yet sexual, and anyone who views them that way is a little off, IMO. It's the opposite of pedophilia - the fear of the sexuality of small children. What's that about? 2) There's no shame in a naked body. In my beliefs, God created our bodies and they are "good." Like anything, that goodness can be defiled by how we use our bodies. For instance, a toddler who bites is using their God-created teeth to inflict harm on another person = not good. In the same way, I feel like a person who sees a child's body as something shameful is projecting something (fear, misunderstanding, something "sick") inside their own hearts onto the child.

phathui5 - I really respect your posts when I see them on MDC, and I'm curious about your views on this, so let me ask you -- is it more of instilling modesty in your children early? Or is it seeing something shameful about a naked body in general? I genuinely want to understand, and I feel like you could give a good explanation.


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## Liquesce (Nov 4, 2006)

I'm always a little confused when people say that a sense of propriety surrounding the covering of that body that favors modesty is the same as a sense of shame about the body. Culturally/religiously/etc, where I'm coming at it from is a place where there are very strong gender-based boundaries surrounding looking at, speaking to, and touching people of the opposite sex, but it has nothing to do with shame -- it is about an idea of demonstrating respect for both the self and the other. Not saying that people who are more open to showing their bodies / seeing other's bodies are disrespectful ... just saying that it's an odd point of view to me that being less open is something harmful or unhealthy.

For me, while I agree that children are children and it's silly to project sexual awareness or intentions upon them, just as I might wish to teach my son, for example, respect for the value of money before he is responsible for supporting himself, so too I would want to teach him respect for women as it is in my community before he is of an age where he would be considered accountable for not demonstrating that. If a parent believes it is improper for a boy to watch a naked girl, it is not something they are going to wait until the day it's apparent the child has hit puberty to first bring it up.


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## Phoenix~Mama (Dec 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Liquesce* 
I'm always a little confused when people say that a sense of propriety surrounding the covering of that body that favors modesty is the same as a sense of shame about the body. Culturally/religiously/etc, where I'm coming at it from is a place where there are very strong gender-based boundaries surrounding looking at, speaking to, and touching people of the opposite sex, but it has nothing to do with shame -- it is about an idea of demonstrating respect for both the self and the other. Not saying that people who are more open to showing their bodies / seeing other's bodies are disrespectful ... just saying that it's an odd point of view to me that being less open is something harmful or unhealthy.

For me, while I agree that children are children and it's silly to project sexual awareness or intentions upon them, just as I might wish to teach my son, for example, respect for the value of money before he is responsible for supporting himself, so too I would want to teach him respect for women as it is in my community before he is of an age where he would be considered accountable for not demonstrating that. If a parent believes it is improper for a boy to watch a naked girl, it is not something they are going to wait until the day it's apparent the child has hit puberty to first bring it up.

*nods* Very well written!

That is sort of my take on it. I am certainly not exclusively modest, but it depends on the situation. I don't mind being naked in front of DP, DSD, my Mom and sisters... but strangers or acquainances is something totally different. lol

I do not think modesty equates to shame of the naked body. DP and I are teaching DSD there is a time and place to be nakked... we don't think it is appropriate for her to streak at school.







Or to start taking her clothes off in the restruant.

Me personally... I'm uncomfortable with kids of opposite gender undressing in front of each other past a certain age. But that has to do with something that happened to me at about 5 years old with a friend of the family who was 7.







Maybe if that didn't happen I'd feel different... but figured I'd put it out there that sexual things can happen before puberty, so I tend to be a bit more protective about these things.


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## aprildawn (Apr 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JSMa* 
*nods* Very well written!

I agree. And what's funny is that I agree pretty much with everything she said, yet I've come to a slightly different comfort level with my DD's nudity! Weird how that can happen. And I don't know what I'll do with her as she gets older, but DH and I both want to teach her to dress with modesty and respect for others.

I do feel like the OP's friend acted as if there was something shameful about her son seeing the little girl changing clothes which is why I asked about it. "It's not right," is a pretty absolute statement about right vs wrong. I guess I just want to be sensitive to each child's comfort level, while teaching them to respect the comfort levels of others. It's nearly impossible to do that, though. But I try to at least avoid language about what is "right" or "wrong." Had she said, "Let's respect her privacy, honey," I wouldn't have sensed shame being a factor there.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JSMa* 
Me personally... I'm uncomfortable with kids of opposite gender undressing in front of each other past a certain age. But that has to do with something that happened to me at about 5 years old with a friend of the family who was 7.







Maybe if that didn't happen I'd feel different... but figured I'd put it out there that sexual things can happen before puberty, so I tend to be a bit more protective about these things.

I'm sorry to hear about that, Jennifer.









ETA: I'm a pretty modest person myself. I don't even like being naked for doctors!! Nursing in pubic was tremendously challenging to me! How I got the nudist child is beyond my understanding.


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## Phoenix~Mama (Dec 24, 2007)

Thanks aprildawn.









And that is funny that your DD is opposite of you... I have seen that a lot from friends kids and others here. Just shows and proves that each of us are individuals, inherited genes or no.


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## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dauno* 
Ok this is







: and









First of all, DD was not totally naked she had panties on that she was about to remove when she heard that comment.
Second, the animal thing that you mention is sicker, really you and i have different views in parenting which is totally obvious.
Third, respect for my daughter, really you don't know my child and she is not ashamed to get undressed or being naked infront of other people and actually the comment of that mum surprised me and her both other parents don't seem to care about it.
Well maybe you haven't meet a pro-naked person, but i do and all of the parents i know are "pro-naked"
You are the one who's sick and disrrespectful









DD gave me the look of "Did i did something wrong?" , so tat's no good.

I'm sorry, Dauno. My post came off very strong. I was shaking as I typed it. My hands are trembling as I type this one too. This is just one of those issues that I cringe over. I look at my daughter at such a young age--and I know that my dad hurt me around the same age. At 10 1/2 months, my dd is not allowed to wear one of those cute little mini skirts, short shorts, sun dresses...and most certainly not a freaking bikini that they make for these babies (UGH!), etc--she wears pants and or longer shorts. She's worn 3 dresses, each one was picture day with me.

My mom stripped me naked a couple times....not gonna get into it. I grew up with a couple of male cousins--I was in 4th grade and me and boys were alone w/no supervision..... I just know what can and does happen. That's why I freak out over this particular topic. I'm extremely picky with my dd because I'm terrified something will happen to her as it did me. There are strict rules already in place for her (in addition to the clothes thing) that her dad and my gramma (the only people who watch her) follow and agree with to a T--dd isn't allowed to be alone with anyone with a penis other than her dad (not a step brother, not a grandpa...nobody other than dad). And nobody with a penis other than her dad can see her naked/change her diaper. This mama will flip out if one of those rules are broken. Flip. Out.

It's not about being ashamed of their bodies--it's about protecting their bodies. Yes, children are innocent--but the world is not. She will have high self esteem, etc--but she will be extremely modest. It's not about shame. I want my dd to know that her body is HERS. It's special and not to be viewed by just anyone, etc.

I'm really sorry. I didn't mean to upset you--I just get worked up over these topics. You also said the woman said something about your dd being "nakey"...I didn't know she had her undies on still. Either way, I apologize.


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## aprildawn (Apr 1, 2004)

maybaby2007 -- It sounds like you've been through something really abusive and traumatizing. I'm sorry that happened to you.


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## Phoenix~Mama (Dec 24, 2007)

s MayBaby2007

I know how you feel hon. I would agree totally with it's more about protecting their bodies.









Just because they are kids doesn't mean nothing will happen.

Don't even get me started on bikinis for children!!







Won't happen in my house.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

I'm sorry for everyone who's been affected by child sexual abuse.

However, I see sexual abuse as more related to the need for parents to not leave their children with anyone who's not fully trustworthy.

In my own family, dh and I are the only people who watch our 3yo thus far. And dh and I are the main ones caring for our almost 8yo as well, though now she does sometimes enjoy classes in our church and homeschooling group, and sometimes plays in (select) friends' homes without us being there.

These are friends from families that we know well: If we don't know the family well enough, then we either go with dd -- or (as in neighborhood playtimes) dd plays with kids out in the yard where we can see her from our yard; she doesn't go into houses without us if we're not sure about the families.

I know I shared that by age 5 our children are wearing clothes around people outside our immediate family -- but that's not really because I'm scared that they'd be molested: It's more because of what some other posters mentioned, about respecting the comfort-levels of others.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I wish wearing a lot of clothes protected kids from sexual abuse. But that's not what abuse is about.


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## RubyWild (Apr 7, 2004)

I would be upset if someone said something like that in front of my Dd. It's inappropriate to shame someone else's child about their body. If people want to teach their children a particular type of modesty, that's their choice, but keep it away from those of us who want our children to be comfortable with their bodies.


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## amitymama (Nov 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
I wish wearing a lot of clothes protected kids from sexual abuse. But that's not what abuse is about.









:


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## Phoenix~Mama (Dec 24, 2007)

I agree clothes will not neccessarily protect from abuse unfortunately.









But to comment on only letting people you know watch your kids... I don't want to scare anyone, just inform. My thesis project in high school was on pedifiles. It was a debate topic one year, and it strikes a cord with me so I did a lot of research on it... I suppose some of it stems from the unfortunate episodes that happened to me when I was younger.

Anyway, more than 50% of cases happen with someone the child knows and trusts.







Tis why more than half of cases never get reported either, because the child feels it would be breaking the trust with the person and they are conflicted. It is a sad vicious cycle.

But regardless of that... What happened to me when I was 5... my parents were there, in the dining room playing cards with the boys parents. We were all friends. Had been before I was even born. No parent had any reason not to trust the kids were playing together nicely as we always did. We had just gotten back from swimming at the lake and the kids were all changing in the room together... sounds innocent enough right? But what happened after that wasn't... and we were all children! The oldest was 7 years old.

I'm just saying... even though you trust and are supervising, things can happen. I just will never feel comfortable with opposite sex changing in front of each other.


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## Liquesce (Nov 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RubyWild* 
If people want to teach their children a particular type of modesty, that's their choice, but *keep it away from those of us who want our children to be comfortable with their bodies*.

This is exactly the kind of remark I was talking about.


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## Phoenix~Mama (Dec 24, 2007)

How is it shaming her body just because she thinks it inappropriate for her son to see her naked?

Respecting Privacy/Teching Respect for the other gender/Modesty Does NOT Equal Shame!

I don't get it...


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## aprildawn (Apr 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JSMa* 
How is it shaming her body just because she thinks it inappropriate for her son to see her naked?

Respecting Privacy/Teching Respect for the other gender/Modesty Does NOT Equal Shame!

I don't get it...

I can only speak for myself, but I think it's from the OP's friend's comment, "you shouldn't see girls nakey honey it's not right" Because for her to say that could imply there's something not "right" about the little girl's naked body. In other words, being naked isn't "right."

As I've said before, the other mom could have said, "Let's give your friend some privacy." or "Let's respect her need for privacy while she changes." That would have had the same modesty lesson w/o the value judgment of the "rightness" of the girl's "nakey."

I totally respect and understand where the modesty comments are coming from, esp those of you who were abused. But for me it's not the desire to teach modesty that I was troubled by in the OP's story; it was the other mom's comment about what is "right." From her story it is vague what the mom was judging as "right." Her son seeing the girl naked, or the girl being naked? My streaker DD, who I want to learn respect and boundaries about nakedness, would be confused and hurt if she heard a comment like that.

Does that help? I'm not sure the issue is so much whether the girl was naked or the boy saw her, as it is what the other mom said.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JSMa* 
Anyway, more than 50% of cases happen with someone the child knows and trusts.

Yes, that's absolutely true. This is one reason why I'm so careful about who I allow in my circle of people that I trust to care for my children.

I do see your point about opposite-sex (or even same-sex) children changing clothes together without adult-in-the-room supervision. And I realize that sometimes children, even very young children, have been exposed to sexual stuff that they will sometimes try to act out with other kids, if given the opportunity.

And, in one case, a friend's child was exposed to some stuff while visiting at his dad's -- so it's not like we can just say, "I trust this parent, so therefore I know her child has never been molested and would never act out any sexual stuff with my child." Supervision is very, very important during playdates.

And I guess from that angle, it's good that my children are in the habit of wearing clothes whenever we/they have company. But even more helpful is talking with my children about what kinds of touching are appropriate, and what aren't. So they'll recognize if one of their friends is being inappropriate, and say "No!" to the friend and also say something to me.


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## EarthMamaToBe (Feb 19, 2008)

I see not reason that a 5 year old should have a "sense of shame" about their bodies. It's just sad. That being said if the little boys mother had an issue with it I agree with the "lets give her some privacy"

In my opinion modesty and shame do not prevent abuse they just increases the chances the child will never tell you.

I don't have a problem with the fact that certain cultures value modesty more than others, just so long as children aren't taught that their bodies are shameful or bad, just private.


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## SquishyKitty (Jun 10, 2005)

I think 5 is a good age to start introducing boundaries and modesty. THere's nothing wrong with that.


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## Phoenix~Mama (Dec 24, 2007)

I see your point in the interperetation of the Mom's comment of "not right"... but I think it may be reading into it a little much.

She likely meant that she didn't think it right for her son to see her naked, which, in my honest opinion, would be an okay thing. Nothing wrong with repsect for privacy or teaching of repsect of the other gender.

Her word choice could have been better, but also keeping in mind she said, "nakey", her education/or speech level may not be very high.


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