# Planning on circumcising...



## ArcaneAscent (Aug 19, 2015)

My significant other and I are expecting our first child, a son (obviously). We were both planning on circumcising him, though I know that many people are against it and that it's not a necessary thing. There are many reasons not to circumcise. However, I don't want him to feel self conscious when he ages.

My brother wasn't circumcised, since my parents are both from Europe, and I guess it's not common practice over there. However, my brother grew up getting made fun of apparently, especially in the locker rooms. So he circumcised later in life and still holds it against our parents today for them not having done that when he was a baby and wouldn't remember or have to deal with the pain and healing process as an adult. Because of his experience, I really feel all the more inclined to circumcise. My S.O. also is circumcised himself, and personally I've always preferred that in men (though I have been with both in the past).

Are we making the wrong decision? Am I really going to regret it? I don't want to do anything that I feel is going to be negative for our child, and this is a really tough call. My significant other and I are both really free-minded hippie-ish thinkers in most any other sense, so this is something that kind of is a bit confusing for us. He thinks that it's weird to not have a circumcised penis, regardless of it it has purpose or not. I just am unsure here.

*EDIT:* This title should not be changed to "NOT planning on circumcising..."  See here: http://www.mothering.com/forum/44-c...26361-planning-circumcising.html#post18997057


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## usually-lurking (Feb 10, 2015)

Considering you know from your brother that it's painful, why would you subject a tiny infant to so much pain?


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

OK the thing is in your brothers generation not many where left intact. Anywhere from 80-90% depending on where you lived. Now the rates of circ are well below 50% in most areas so your ds if circed could be the odd man out. 

Have you read the Regrets thread? If you havnt you need to read through there and see the hundreds of mothers who deeply regret circing their child for many reasons and for the one you are using. 

What it comes down to is if you teach your child about his body and why he is the way he is ie that you felt it was his choice to have a cosmetic surgery not yours and that it was dangerous to do it and unnecessary. 

You do know there is a risk of death with it right? around a 100 boys die every year after having it done while no one has died from having a foreskin. 

I really hope you read that thread and reconsider putting your son through that kind of pain for no other reason that what others may think of him. Think of it this way also if your brother had a harmless birthmark on his arm at birth would you risk death or disfigurement because some ignorant person "might" come along and make fun of it? 

I have taught my ds that having a foreskin makes him normal and those that are circed had a very painful unneeded surgery after birth to remove the skin and that everyone is different and that is OK. Your ds may very well come to be upset by what you had done to him like many other men out there.

You and your SO also need to sit down and watch the circ video if that dosnt change your mind I dont know what will. As parents you need to know exactly what you will be putting your ds through.


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## ArcaneAscent (Aug 19, 2015)

Thank you very much for the responses. I appreciate all the information and feedback. I still am in the indecisive phase right now and am taking further steps to educate myself (hence the reason why I posted here). 

I just got done watching the circumcision video on YouTube, and holy *bleep* that is disturbing. The way the baby cries throughout the procedure too only added to how awful it was to try and watch. I feel sick to my stomach now and really feel as if I could go get sick. :/ This really has given me something to think about. 

I'm going to be doing a lot more reading now.


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## ArcaneAscent (Aug 19, 2015)

I was texting my brother asking him his opinion on the matter, and he said that "it's gross" that a lot of males on the west coast (where my S.O. and I are moving to) don't have it done. (My brother lives in Illinois, where I am originally from.) He said, "I had it done when I was 16, and it's much cleaner and easier to deal with. Trust me, I know both sides." I said that I read that the foreskin apparently has nerve endings in it and that if it's removed sex isn't as enjoyable. He said, "It's just as good. I read that foreskin hurts during sex because of all the friction. It also smells in there and is just plain gross. No one would want it if he knows both sides. Trust me."

I'm so conflicted.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

How is having an open wound in a dirty diaper until it heals cleaner? Cleaning is simple from birth until natural retraction the foreskin is stuck to the glans so you wash it like a finger from base to tip never pulling it back because it can do damage.

After retraction takes place the owner of the penis retracts, rinses with clean water and replace. Hygiene is taught to both boys and girls as they age. So being cleaner is a myth. 

As for sex the foreskin does have nerve endings and it does increase pleasure. They proved that in a study. Sometimes it is true the first few times a man has sex or masturbates it can get a bit sore. But the same can be said for a woman as well. Yet we dont cut any of our bits off because time takes care of it. 

After watching that video can you imagine handing over your defenseless newborn to suffer like that? Something else to keep in mind if you plan to breastfeed having it done can actually ruin that relationship. I know of more than a few woman who had zero issues breastfeeding before it was done then after they where never able to get the baby to latch again due to the pain and trauma the child is under. 

I understand your brother had a horrible experience but in all honesty the only one who should get to decide what is done to his body is your ds not you or your SO or your brother.


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## JLUK (Jun 16, 2015)

Buy the book "unspeakable mutilations". Its a heartbreaking compilation of stories from deeply regretful men and the cahos circumcision can cause in a mans life. Just the introduction sums up the real risk to a mans self esteem, love life and seclusion as no one wants to hear. From my experience, its bang on what I am going through, and a huge relief to realise I was not alone. Far from it.

Some cut men are not effected, some men dont realise, some are but cant speak about it due to their surrounds, but a huge number are waking up to why they are suffering, physically and mentally, and to what has been taken from them.

No parent can read this, digest the long term risk, and then take a knife to their kid.

Let alone step back and think about the moral context of irrevocably removing someone elses body part.

Medical blabla, talk about initial pain etc, this is highly questionable and extreemely irrelevant compated to the long term risk. As for locker room jibes, I believe America is waking up there too as the norm is halved.

Read up on foreskin restoration, and its following. Its a pityful state for a man to have been put into. I am just starting. Its a ridiculous last resort. Yet many are turning to it.

I am glad the dad is happily cut. Many others arnt, like me. No uncut man with a healthy foreskin in normal balanced surroundings is unhappy, and he would fight to the end to keep his best friend down there intact.

Playing with nature opens up a great range of consequences, and feelings. Leaving nature alone is the only way to ensure peace of mind, for all. And then the kid can decide for himself later whether nature got it wrong, and live with his decsion.


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## usually-lurking (Feb 10, 2015)

As your brother said, being intact is common where you are going, so a circumcised boy might be the odd one at school.

Also the "cleaner" comment seems to be referring to once he was a teen, correct?

Also you quoted your brother as saying he "read about sex" with a foreskin. So he doesn't seem to have actual knowledge of what it was like with one to compare to without one


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## ArcaneAscent (Aug 19, 2015)

JLUK said:


> Buy the book "unspeakable mutilations". Its a heartbreaking compilation of stories from deeply regretful men and the cahos circumcision can cause in a mans life. Just the introduction sums up the real risk to a mans self esteem and love life. From my experience, its bang on what I am going through, and a huge relief to realise I was not alone.
> 
> Some cut men are not effected, some men dont realise, some are but cant speak about it due to their surrounds, but a huge number are waking up to why they are suffering, and to what has been taken from them.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for that recommendation! I am looking for as much reading material as possible before I commit to either option, and I want to be as informed as possible. I also want to inform my significant other, since he has been pro-circumcision for as long as I've known him. If we both educate ourselves more, I feel we likely both will change our viewpoints.



usually-lurking said:


> As your brother said, being intact is common where you are going, so a circumcised boy might be the odd one at school.
> 
> Also the "cleaner" comment seems to be referring to once he was a teen, correct?


Yeah, it's apparently very common in the Midwest area (as shown from this map I found). However, I actually moved away from the Midwest a couple years back and am currently living in New Mexico, but my significant other and I will be moving to California before the end of the year (where circumcision is very uncommon, therefore making me think even harder about this decision).

Yeah, he meant he felt cleaner after he chose to get circumcised when he was 16. I'm not sure if he just never was taught properly how to clean himself as a child (which is sounds like, being that he said his penis actually got stinky before). It wouldn't surprise me if our parents didn't educate him on cleaning, since they don't talk about anything that makes them uncomfortable, which unfortunately has forced us to self educate on a lot of things growing up.


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## usually-lurking (Feb 10, 2015)

I think it's good that you're seeking info from men here. Your brother, while family, may not have enough information to share to help you with this decision.

For me it was simple. It was not my body and my son was in no danger from *not* having it done. I can tell you that he has no regrets! I think it will be a few more years before he has sex, so I can't speak to that. At his age he is just becoming aware that some boys are different and was horrified to learn that some parents think cutting a baby is alright.


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## elliha (Jul 20, 2014)

If you do not do it your child can make up his own choice to get circumcised when he is grown up but he can never get back a lost body part. Restoration is not going to be the same as the real deal. 

I live in a country where more or less everyone is intact and the clean part is completely up to actually cleaning yourself and nothing more. As to foreskin hurting, well never heard any guy here say that, perhaps that could be true if he has an extremely tight foreskin even as an adult at which a minor operation can be done and cream can help too. I did have a boy friend who had tight foreskin but he could retract it he just had to be careful. He retracted it before sex but other than that he didn't seem to have any problems. He had been offered an operation as a teen but turned it down because he didn't have problems with it. Without discussing this too much for his privacy he had different taste in how he wanted to be touched sexually compared to all other men with normal foreskin that I have been in contact with but as I said, he definitely didn't suffer from it.


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## ArcaneAscent (Aug 19, 2015)

usually-lurking said:


> I think it's good that you're seeking info from men here. Your brother, while family, may not have enough information to share to help you with this decision.
> 
> For me it was simple. It was not my body and my son was in no danger from *not* having it done. I can tell you that he has no regrets! I think it will be a few more years before he has sex, so I can't speak to that. At his age he is just becoming aware that some boys are different and was horrified to learn that some parents think cutting a baby is alright.


It's definitely informative reading other's comments all throughout this forum on the subject. I've even sought advice from a coworker friend of mine who recently had a baby. He said he and his wife chose not to circumcise and said that it's just not necessary and didn't seem like the right choice for them and just advised me to do a lot of research to decide for myself. I'm glad to be getting all this feedback!

That's so good to know that your son doesn't have any regrets about it!  I can understand how strange it must be for a young boy to discover that his parts are different from others his age, and the more and more common is becomes for boys to not be circumcised, the more circumcised boys will feel like the odd ones out.



elliha said:


> If you do not do it your child can make up his own choice to get circumcised when he is grown up but he can never get back a lost body part. Restoration is not going to be the same as the real deal.
> 
> I live in a country where more or less everyone is intact and the clean part is completely up to actually cleaning yourself and nothing more. As to foreskin hurting, well never heard any guy here say that, perhaps that could be true if he has an extremely tight foreskin even as an adult at which a minor operation can be done and cream can help too. I did have a boy friend who had tight foreskin but he could retract it he just had to be careful. He retracted it before sex but other than that he didn't seem to have any problems. He had been offered an operation as a teen but turned it down because he didn't have problems with it. Without discussing this too much for his privacy he had different taste in how he wanted to be touched sexually compared to all other men with normal foreskin that I have been in contact with but as I said, he definitely didn't suffer from it.


That's kind of what I have been thinking as well about my son being able to make the choice for himself if he feels he wants to circumcise someday (just like my brother). It _should _be his choice ultimately.

That's good to hear that foreskin doesn't actually hurt during intercourse as my brother had suggested it may. I assume whatever he read was referring to the sensation males feel early in their sexual lives and not something that is persistent. That's an interesting story too. I've heard many things about how both having foreskin and not having it can vary from person to person.


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## JLUK (Jun 16, 2015)

Whatever you read up on it, keep a human distance, the propoganda is frightening. Stick to your parental instincts, disassociate yourself from social pressure and scare mongering.

My experience is perhaps particularly bad, but I am findig that I am far from being a rare unlucky case. Its a real unrepairable risk that due to all the outside inflences is kept unspoken. Hence the title "unspeakable". And I certainly feel I have been "mutilated", which technically is what it is.

Be reassured that there are hundreds and hundreds of millions of men and boys elsewhere in other civilised parts of the world with a foreskin who are doing just fine ...


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## JadePlant (Apr 21, 2015)

ArcaneAscent said:


> That's kind of what I have been thinking as well about my son being able to make the choice for himself if he feels he wants to circumcise someday (just like my brother). It _should _be his choice ultimately.




Exactly! I've been mulling this over all morning and hopped back on here to say exactly that. By leaving him intact you are giving HIM the freedom of choice. If he wishes later that he was circumcised (unlikely, in my opinion), he CAN choose to have it done. If you make that choice for him now, where does that leave him if he later wishes to be intact?

Also, to add more anecdotal evidence, my almost-4 year old is intact and pretty darn happy about it. No issues at all thus far. And as far as adult sexual experience goes, I've been with uncircumcised men in the past who were also pretty darn happy about being intact, as well as circumcised men who were regretful (and in one case had pain on arousal due to a botched circumcision.)

I have encountered the "stinky foreskin" before and, no surprise, the guy in question simply didn't clean himself enough. Seriously, it takes 15 seconds in the shower--I think that's worth hanging on to such a highly sensitive body part!


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## ArcaneAscent (Aug 19, 2015)

JLUK said:


> Whatever you read up on it, keep a human distance, the propoganda is frightening. Stick to your parental instincts, disassociate yourself from social pressure and scare mongering.
> 
> My experience is perhaps particularly bad, but I am findig that I am far from being a rare unlucky case. Its a real unrepairable risk that due to all the outside inflences is kept unspoken. Hence the title "unspeakable". And I certainly feel I have been "mutilated", which technically is what it is.
> 
> Be reassured that there are hundreds and hundreds of millions of men and boys elsewhere in other civilised parts of the world with a foreskin who are doing just fine ...


This is really good advice!  I completely agree. I think being true to yourself and to what you feel, after doing enough research and self-education, is what really matters. I do feel like a lot of people in today's society (at least here in parts of the United States) do feel pressure to do it just to be like others around them. But it's interesting and good to know that the rates have declined so much over the years and that people are starting to question it. Also, it's great too knowing that it's not such a common thing at all in other parts of the world and that boys and men everywhere are happy and content with it that way.



JadePlant said:


> Exactly! I've been mulling this over all morning and hopped back on here to say exactly that. By leaving him intact you are giving HIM the freedom of choice. If he wishes later that he was circumcised (unlikely, in my opinion), he CAN choose to have it done. If you make that choice for him now, where does that leave him if he later wishes to be intact?
> 
> Also, to add more anecdotal evidence, my almost-4 year old is intact and pretty darn happy about it. No issues at all thus far. And as far as adult sexual experience goes, I've been with uncircumcised men in the past who were also pretty darn happy about being intact, as well as circumcised men who were regretful (and in one case had pain on arousal due to a botched circumcision.)
> 
> I have encountered the "stinky foreskin" before and, no surprise, the guy in question simply didn't clean himself enough. Seriously, it takes 15 seconds in the shower--I think that's worth hanging on to such a highly sensitive body part!


I think that's really a smart and logical thing! Leaving the decision up to the person in question is not only most considerate, but also morally (in this case, being that it is an irreversible removal of skin) right thing to do.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience, JadePlant! I am happy knowing that there are young boys out there and also adults that are satisfied remaining intact. Also, that makes a lot of sense about some men just not cleaning properly and taking the little bit of time to make sure they are hygienic. The more I think about it, the more I feel my brother experienced that odor is because he was never taught how to really clean himself and he also just never cared as much as he should have. But spending just a few extra seconds cleaning is really not asking a whole lot, especially like you said if it's in exchange for something so beneficial.

I'm really starting to feel swayed to not circumcising at all now and leaving that choice up to my son if he ever wishes to consider it. Thank you so much for all the advice and helpful comments you guys have been leaving here! I am definitely feeling better informed and will continue to do more research and discuss it over with my significant other. It definitely is a choice that we as parents need to take very seriously!


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## bugmenot (May 29, 2005)

elliha said:


> If you do not do it your child can make up his own choice to get circumcised when he is grown up but he can never get back a lost body part. Restoration is not going to be the same as the real deal.


Well said.

It's not your brother's body. If something is not absolutely 100% medically necessary in order for either improvement of life or survival, there is absolutely no reason to have it done.

Especially amputation and disfigurement, which circumcision is.

But yeah, I see that you're really considering both sides of the choice... it absolutely is not something to be taken lightly. (I've always said it isn't my body, therefore, like I said, if it isn't necessary, defer it to him.)


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## JLUK (Jun 16, 2015)

Smelly ?

If a man cant keep that part of his body clean, you can be sure the rest of him isnt very clean either. No respect for himself, nor others.

When I had a foreskin, washing it was a great start to the day. Like giving a high five to your best friend. I was taught as a kid that this was important and grew up to understand why.

The logic of amputating a body part because you cant be bothered to clean it is like ripping out your teeth because you have bad breath and cant be bothered to brush them. 

FYI - I have several posts on this website documenting my circumcision experience, which I hope are easy reading. the medical profession didnt warn me, and cant help or repair what has been done to me, so by writing I am trying to help others understand what is really going on and the real long term permanent risk of reduced sexual pleasure and discomfort - an issue that is kept under wraps for so many outside reasons.


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## MichelleZB (Nov 1, 2011)

I have a brother too. He is in his late twenties and intact. In his area, about half of the children his age were not circumcised. He was not mocked for his penis. He is happy to have a foreskin and doesn't have any problems.

There are whole countries where no man is circumcised. All those men are still having sex. Foreskins, therefore, are surely not so disgusting that no woman will go near one. If all the Norwegian girls like foreskins, surely American women can learn to also.

I prefer intact men.


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## JLUK (Jun 16, 2015)

North American women complain that foreskins are not a clean part of the body and should be removed ? Thats a bit rich given what goes on in a lady's private parts. That is a seriously disturbing double standard and cruel pressure to exert. If either a man or woman's parts smell, complain, force them to learn to wash for damn sake, but dont start using a knife rather than soap and warm water.


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## katelove (Apr 28, 2009)

If he wasn't washing properly he may have had irritation or a mild infection which was the cause of the pain, rather than the presence of the foreskin itself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ArcaneAscent (Aug 19, 2015)

Hi guys,

*A little update on all this:*

I was out with a coworker friend and his wife and their son, along with my significant other last night. The subject of circumcision was brought up (by my S.O. actually, who asked our friends if they had their son circumcised). A conversation on the subject followed, and I was surprised to hear my boyfriend so open to the idea of not circumcising and instead leaving our son intact.

We later spoke about it at home, and though my S.O. always had assumed he'd have his kid circumcised, and though his sister (who recently had a baby) circumcised her son, he was willing to not force our child to go through that unnecessary procedure and agreed that it does seem like something we should leave up to him to decide. He said the only concern he has (which is just a minor one) would be teaching his son to clean himself properly and caring for an uncircumcised penis, being that he doesn't have one himself. Also, he mentioned he was slightly worried our son might feel different having a differently-shaped penis than his father, since he remembers always looking up to his dad growing up and wanting to be just like him. I reassured him on these points though, and he said if it's something I feel in my gut isn't something we should do, then he's happy to not have that done to our boy.

So, thank you again everyone for bringing all of this to my attention and for all the information. I realize it's a touchy subject and some people may get a little unintentionally overzealous in their responses which may turn some people on the defensive, but I found myself very inspired. I also feel all the mounds of research I've been doing these past few days has definitely opened up my eyes quite a lot. This is something that shouldn't be kept in the dark and should definitely be discussed and debated more often.


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## MichelleZB (Nov 1, 2011)

Glad to have the talk!

And you want your son to match his father: match his integrity, his kindness of spirit, his hard work ethic, or what have you. But you don't have to match penises. What are they going to do, whip them out and compare? My husband is circumcised and my son is intact. He is 3 and they are naked together all the time and he doesn't notice.


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## ArcaneAscent (Aug 19, 2015)

MichelleZB said:


> Glad to have the talk!
> 
> And you want your son to match his father: match his integrity, his kindness of spirit, his hard work ethic, or what have you. But you don't have to match penises. What are they going to do, whip them out and compare? My husband is circumcised and my son is intact. He is 3 and they are naked together all the time and he doesn't notice.


Thanks, Michelle!  Again, I really appreciate all the information and am really happy I stumbled upon this forum recently. It's already been informative in so many ways.

Yes! Exactly. You said it perfectly. I told my significant other that just because he was circumcised doesn't mean his son needs to be forced to go through the same sort of unnecessary, painful process. Also, that's good to hear! I thought the difference between his dad's penis and his own wasn't something a son would really notice, especially as a young child. And that's the same reaction I had lol when my S.O. said that he was slightly concerned that our son may want to be like his dad as far as his penis goes! I said, "Wait, how is he even going to see your penis?" Apparently, my S.O. saw his dad's as a kid when his dad took a shower with him and taught him how to clean and shower himself. And they peed together all the time. That was so strange to me in some ways, since, as I kind of mentioned in one of the many replies I made to this thread, I grew up with really modest parents who didn't address topics that they considered awkward, and so my dad was never naked around my brother. But I guess every family is different! In either case though, like you said, I feel like our son will be just fine and probably won't even notice. Then, when he is old enough to understand, we can explain it and go over all that with him.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

My ds is 10 and he has seen his dad walk through the house in the past sans clothing and has yet to ask, I have heard others say that they always though that as a child they just thought theirs would look that way as an adult.


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## usually-lurking (Feb 10, 2015)

ArcaneAscent said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> *A little update on all this:*
> 
> ...


Glad to hear the good news! Congratulations and good luck!


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## Ivymom (Aug 8, 2015)

Hey. I didn't read every post here but wanted to help if I could. You mentioned him feeling uncomfortable as he grows. In my state California, circumcision is NOT the norm, nor is it worldwide. We are the only country who does routine infant circumcision without religious context. 

I didn't circumcise my son. Proud of that. I read a study that it changes the baseline readings of certain parts of the brain dealing with reason. 

My brother had a botched circumcision in my opinion after looking at photographs of neo natal and toddler stages. My brother is schizophrenic and I think this was a factor for him. He also developed strange sexuality, but, no need to discuss that. 

My son's father had a tight circumcision. When erect, there was too little accommodating skin and would pull extra needed skin from his scrotom, uncomfortably. He was not a larger man in this regard, average would be generous to say. 

My current partner is uncircumcised. Smooth, beautiful, functional.

Foreskin is a protective organ. Their heads are smoother for this reason. They have ALL their nerve endings. The penis has glands that excret... idk... something purposeful. Similar to women's glands on the labia. I've never noticed fluid on my son or partner but I know that is the reason the head is not bumpy or dry, but pink and smooth. 

Female circumcision was LEGAL in the US until sometime in the 90s. It's not recommended by any heath organization at any time anywhere. 

Your newborn needs your protection. This is an unnecessary, morbid, elective mutation to your child's genetalia, the most sensitive body part during the most sensitive days of his life. For more harm than good as I view foreskin as functional. 
Plus they strap them down, pump their stomachs so they don't choke on their vomit, cut their penis where they have the most nerves. Babies die, go into shock, get bad circumcision since they can't anticipate adult penis size since it grows over 100 times. It interferes with bonding and breastfeeding. Risk of infection. The risks go on. 

In medicine we weigh risk and benefit. What was the point again? You thought he might get made fun of? Not worth it. Not really right to alter someone's body for asthtic preferences of genetalia especially. 

Oh and I forgot to say that there have been at least 3 reported cases of schizophrenia in Adult Elective Circumcision. Meaning an adult wanted one and directly developed schizophrenia. While inconclusive about my brother... I do think this kind of trauma contributed based on what I've seen in photographs that they partially amputated his penis. 

Please do not circumcise. Your baby is born perfect!!!! EXAFTLY the way we are intended with no extra, unfunctional body parts!!!.Hold your baby, love him, protect him from harm. You know that instinctively. Don't let anyone cut his foreskin off, he can choose this later in life (but probably won't) when he is old enough to decide. It's simply not our choice to cosmetically alter another person. 

Sorry for the passion (not really!) Xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo


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## Ivymom (Aug 8, 2015)

Just saw your decision! Congratulations!!! 

Their penis won't really be astoundingly diffrent, except Dad's will probably be bigger and hairy... 

I didn't really wonder if my vagina looked like my mom's or not... generally speaking genetalia look all similar and diffrent too.

My son is 4. I have not done anything special to care for his penis or clean it. His foreskin looks diffrent than my nephews, whose seems longer? Like hanging differently. He might have to retract to pee, idk. Doesn't seem to be a problem or my sister would have mentioned it, I'm sure.

NOTE** the foreskin is FUSED to the penis until sometime before the age of 5. DONT RETRACT. It will hurt and damage him, like trying to lift a fingernail. BE CAREFUL THAT YOUR PEDIATRICIAN DOESN'T DO THIS, my sister's did and she was pissed. That's ignorant. 
Tell caretakers there's no need to do anything differently and don't try to pull back his foreskin. It's doing its job and doesn't need our help.

As far as cleaning, once he is older, you'll know as mom you'll know what to show him if it's necessary to retract. 

Like I said my son's penis hasn't gotten one bit of extra care in 4 years. His foreskin looks smaller than my nephews and my partners is not very noticeable either. I wouldn't have known the diffrence really... cept his is better, all the nerves, not scarred or too tight skin, smoother... 

Love that guy.


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## bugmenot (May 29, 2005)

Ivymom said:


> Just saw your decision! Congratulations!!!
> 
> Their penis won't really be astoundingly diffrent, except Dad's will probably be bigger and hairy...
> 
> ...


Well said.

Your son, original poster, should be the first person to retract it. If he tugs away (making it longer), as babies and young kids sometimes do, that's ok. As an infant/young child, as long as he can pee without discomfort, everything is ok.

Clean it the same way you would a finger...no need for anyone to pull anything back. Some medical personnel will attempt a "just a little bit, so I can see" or they'll try to tell you that it has to be "gently pulled back." No, no, no. No need at all.

The locker room argument is bogus. Kids, girls included, will tease each other for anything and everything. We wouldn't give our daughters surgery for areas where they differ. If your son brings it up, just reply in an age-appropriate manner that some kids had a surgery to remove the skin. Usually, the response seems to be one of "well, that's awesome you didn't remove mine."

If one kid opens his yap in a locker room, they'll usually be met with a response of "why are you looking down there?" and that usually seems to end that.


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## Wellworth (Aug 22, 2015)

Hi, I just joined this board specifically to comment on this thread.

I commend the OP for being open to not circumcising! I was so happy to read that.

I am a man who had a circumcision done when I was a baby, and my circumcision has caused me a lot of problems. Circumcision is an irreversible procedure that removes erogenous tissue, and partly or completely ruins the penis's ability to self-lubricate. I am so happy to see that more mothers aren't subjecting their sons to this unnecessary operation, which was initially popularized in the US for the express purpose of reducing sexual pleasure, in a time when sexual pleasure was incorrectly seen as the cause of many disorders.

I am not sure if this has been mentioned already, but if not, I would like you to be aware of the "phony phimosis diagnosis". The majority of young children's foreskins don't retract for a good while. They're adhered to the glanses firmly. The foreskin separates from the glans slowly in most cases, and usually the foreskin becomes fully retractable around age 10, very roughly speaking (but every boy is different).

If a doctor diagnoses your son with "phimosis" while he is still a child, I would urge you to get a second opinion. Many boys are unnecessarily circumcised due to false phimosis diagnoses. Many doctors simply don't know that the foreskin is normally non-retractable in infants.

There are very, _very_ few legitimate indications for circumcision. Some (not all, but some) doctors rush to circumcision as the first-line treatment for any and all penis problems in the intact male child. This is an extreme measure that is almost always unnecessary. There are almost always other, less-severe treatments available (although most likely your son will be perfectly fine and this won't be an issue, it's good to be aware, just in case).

I would also like to stress that "ballooning" during urination is normal in intact male children and is not harmful in and of itself.

And, it is common for an intact boy to have a "pointy penis" or "redundant" foreskin. The fact is, it isn't redundant. He will more than likely "grow into" it in time. At birth, nothing in his body is going to look like it will when he grows up. Throughout his youth, his body will be a work in progress. :smile:


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## hakunangovi (Feb 15, 2002)

OP, I am coming to this discussion a bit late, but suffice to say that it makes me very happy to read that you are open to leaving your son intact. I am another man who is extremely pissed that he was circumcised. I feel like I have been violated, and I know that my sex life has been mediocre at best because of it. I would have far rather been left whole rather than "look like" my Dad.

One thing that has not really been mentioned is that an intact penis is self cleaning - just like girl bits. In childhood, benign neglect is the best practice. Later on, once the foreskin becomes retractable (average age of 10), plain water is usually best. Often the "stinky foreskin" is caused by over zealous cleaning with soap etc that destroys the natural flora within the foreskin cavity.

Recently I came across a really good blog that you may enjoy reading: www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/foreskin-why-is-it-such-secret-north-america . There are many links embedded in it that lead to further information.

Also, as alluded in a post above, the foreskin possesses a huge number of nerves which are lost in a circumcision - see: www.cirp.org/library/anatomy/sorrells_2007/ . Not to mention that the neural pathways to the brain are also severed, which is why intact men are able to pace themselves, whereas circumcised men experience ejaculation like a runaway train. There is a huge amount of information at www.cirp.org .

Although many will concede that there are physiological effects resulting from circumcision, a lot fewer people are aware of the possible psychological ramifications. You might be interested in reading: www.cirp.org/library/psych/goldman1/ .

Finally, kudos to you for being proactive in learning all you can about this bizarre custom!!


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## Maiasaura (Aug 12, 2002)

GRR, I hit a wrong button and my post poofed! 
Anyway. My intact boy is 14.5 years old. I did not want my boy circ'd, but I left it up to his father, who I finally split with 2 years after my son was born. The father said "leave him the way Nature made him", though the father was circumcised.

He was born emergency C-section in a hospital. The doctor who signed our release papers recommended circumcision. Because my son's pee-hole did not match up with the foreskin hole, and while my boy was medically fine (he could pee without problems), the doctor thought he might have retraction/sexual issues when that time came. What gave me pause was this doctor had 3 intact sons and he did not think, usually, that circ was a good idea. But he did say that my son could have circ done as an office visit, 3 years down the road, if any problems arose. 
I said I'd wait. 
My son found his "toy" around 8 months old. It was pretty much fully retractable by age 3, and I decided not to have him circ'd. I figured he could have that done later, if he chose. 
He is super happy he is intact. He thinks it's barbaric to cut people's body parts off, especially without permission. 
He and his first girlfriend just broke up-- in 8th grade, they had a long (for 8th grade) time together-- almost 6 months. They did not have intercourse, but they did other things, and she was apparently pretty enthusiastic about those other things, from what he said to me. Which means Not Grossed Out by a foreskin. 
It's easy to care for. When ds was little, if it hurt, which it occasionally did...like I'm sure that on plenty of occasions, he got like one grain of sand in there-- he sat in a couple inches of lukewarm water for awhile, in the tub. Almost always took care of the problem. I think I had to put Neosporin on there once or twice, but forgot why. 

Yes, from what I understand, the glans of the penis is supposed to be a mucous membrane, like the inside of the mouth, or the vagina. The foreskin is its protection. That's why the circumcised penis-head is harder and not wet-looking, because it doesn't have its covering anymore, and toughens up.

My boy is 14 now, like I said, and he's fine and happy and retractable. I ain't getting down there to see if stinky, even if he'd let me, LOL! But he knows how to clean. No soap, OW, just rinse in the water. 

Oh, and as for looking like dad: They aren't a set of matching china. Tell the boy when he's asking questions that know better, do better. Dad can say that when he was a baby, he had that surgery, but dad decided to let the boy decide for himself when he gets older. 

I'm also of the mind that it's not any of your brother's business. At all. He should find out what state the baby's penis is in only if he is changing a diaper! THEN he can ask questions 

HTH!


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## swedishmaiden (Dec 9, 2011)

Congratulations! I see you already have come to a decision, I just wanted to add a couple things that might be helpful.  

One, in terms of the issue of cleanliness, when we were making this decision it helped me to remember that the substance that develops under the foreskin and needs to be cleaned is smegma. The same substance that develops between a girl's labia. So by default, if we are considering this "dirty" or disgusting, that really applies to both genders. When I thought about that, I realized it doesn't make sense that I can teach my daughter to clean herself but not my son. They're all smart capable kids who can take a few seconds to rinse themselves in the bath or shower. :wink:
And second, as far as the matching issue, my son has never noticed that Daddy looks different than him except to point out that Daddy is much bigger. haha. I anticipate at some point we will explain circumcision, but it's not something they seem to notice as kids.


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## hottmomma (May 8, 2006)

I have 4 sons and another boy on his way. My 15 & 12 year olds have never been made fun of for not being circumcised. It just has never been an issue. These days, there are so many boys NOT being cut that it really shouldn't be a reason to do it. There is some info out there that 117 boys die from complications to circumcision every year. I don't know how many suffer from permanent damage.


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## Maiasaura (Aug 12, 2002)

swedishmaiden said:


> One, in terms of the issue of cleanliness, when we were making this decision it helped me to remember that the substance that develops under the foreskin and needs to be cleaned is smegma. The same substance that develops between a girl's labia. So by default, if we are considering this "dirty" or disgusting, that really applies to both genders


I recall that smegma has a purpose, though I can't remember exactly what it's for. Lubrication? I don't remember. But yeah, just rinse it out. My son has accidentally used soap under his foreskin and regretted it-- says it stings. Ow!


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## elliha (Jul 20, 2014)

Smegma is for lubrication. It is not smelly if it is fresh but if you do not wash for several days it will almost turn sour and if I understand correctly sometimes teenage boys might have a slight over production of this because of the hormone change and everything so it might be a slight issue then but not when they are adults. They should wash but not too often and avoid soap although some men seem to tolerate it (my husband uses soap maybe every 3 days).


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## Steinn (Aug 4, 2012)

No, you should not! Why mutilate a unconcenting child? Let him schoose when he gets old enough. :wink: It's a increased risk of autism, later problems with sex, and even death after the procedure. I don't know why parents even consider this.


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## mama24-7 (Aug 11, 2004)

A few things...

Why do we consider cutting the genitals of our boys but recoil at the thought of cutting our girls? Why do we believe that babies do not feel pain, when does the switch come on that they do feel pain? Why would a boy's foreskin be expendable but not a girls? (yes, females have them too) If you do not own your own body, what do you own?

On the idea of washing...the foreskin/glans is similar to the eye/eye ball; the skin is mucosa. Can you imagine using soap on your eye? Soap disrupts the normal/natural flora of the system it's being introduced to. If there is an infection, soap is not the answer; normalizing, balancing the flora of the area/system/overall body is. We are covered in all kinds of bacteria. When the balance of the system is off, then we can be overcome by infections of pathogenic organisms.

There is no system in place for keeping track of harms of circumcision. There are estimates of how many babies die, there are "studies" that claim this "side effect" or that one. There is no universal death certificate check box to indicate that the dead child was recently circumcised. Conversely, a death will be labeled sepsis or hemorrhage without saying that that is the *result* of the cutting. I remember a young child, he was 3 I think, who died in the last few years after being cut. He reacted to the anesthesia. It was blamed on that rather than the *reason* for the medicine. If he hadn't been put under to cut off a fully functional normal part of his genitalia, he'd be alive today.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire

Sus


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## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

About not looking like his father or some of the other boys: My son's question that led me to explain circumcision was, "Some boys at school have a round thing on their penis. When will I have that?" When I asked about what he meant, he explained that Daddy has this round thing so he expected he would have it by the time he grew up, and then he noticed some boys at school had it who were a little older than himself. I realized that the thing he meant was the ridge around the head of the penis, so I explained that he does have one but it's hidden by this skin covering, and some boys including Daddy had an operation when they were born to cut off some of their skin. He was horrified and since then has repeatedly thanked us for deciding he didn't need that operation. Here's more about our circumcision decision. I'm so glad you decided to keep your baby intact!!


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## Galatea (Jun 28, 2004)

I'm super-late to this, but regarding your brother, OP, he chose to be circumcised at the age of 16, and he cannot get his foreskin back, so you have to understand he is highly motivated to believe that his circumcised penis is now superior. Of course he wouldn't admit regret.

My oldest is 11 and he noticed that his dad's penis looked different when he was very young - like 4. I explained that they cut Daddy's off when he was a baby, and my son was horrified and in no way wanted to be circumcised. The idea that the child will be upset to not be circumcised is actually a psychological defense mechanism that the circumcised father chooses to believe - when it is really going to play out the opposite way.

We live in the midwest and there are plenty of uncircumcised boys - my boys have never felt weird. We have of course explained the difference ahead of time so that they wouldn't have even a minute of weird feelings or wanting to be circumcised. Once a little boy figures out how fun his foreskin is, he does not want to get it cut off. I am willing to bet that your parents' weirdness about certain issues directly contributed to your brother's unhappiness. In our family, we are very open and have explained in age-appropriate ways that genitals are fun and feel tickly and are supposed to be that way.

As to cleaning and care, there is none. Our kids became retractable between 3 and 7 and you just rinse it off in the shower or bath.


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## TheBugsMomma (Mar 24, 2015)

I'm so glad you decided to keep your baby intact! 
My dh is intact and we were vigins when we got married. He never really retracted before, so it did hurt the first time. But it wasn't any worse than a girls first time, things got loosened up and everything was normal by the second or third time. So you really shouldn't worry about that. 
Also the clean thing... If you had a girl you would have talked to her about washing herself right. I see it as no different. Really it's just a parental responsibility. It's awkward but there are things you just have to talk to your kids about... Sex, hygiene, periods... Not fun, but necessary to keep them healthy. 

Also, I'm in California too and worked in childcare too. I have seen way more intact diaper changes than cut.


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## Dev (Oct 13, 2008)

WHAT IS LOST TO CIRCUMCISION:
*About 50% of the penile skin. *The double layered foreskin (prepuce), along with the rest of the shaft skin, is a mobile skin system that can freely move up and down the penile shaft, even during an erection.
*The Pleasurable Sensations of the "Ridged Bands." *This ½ inch wide bands of tissue at the tip of the foreskin is the most highly innervated and erogenous part of the penis. The loss of this tissue along with the adjacent sensitive frenulum, reduces a man's pleasure and full range of sexual response.
*The foreskin's Gliding action. *This is the hallmark mechanical feature of the natural human penis. The non-abrasive gliding of the penis in and out of its own sheath of skin facilitates smooth, comfortable, pleasurable intercourse for both partners.
*The Comfortof a covered glans. *The foreskin's inner mucosal tissue provides a warm, moist, protective covering for the sensitive glans. The glans of the circumcised penis becomes dry and calloused from exposure to air and rubbing against clothing. 
*Choice. *A man who was circumcised as an infant has lost his right to an intact, normal, and whole penis and the right to control what happens to his own body.
BOTTOMLINE: HIS PENIS, ONLY HIS CHOICE!
Men (and women) who are allowed as children to keep their whole, intact, normal genitalia, DON'T choose to amputate parts as adults! Please protect your son's penis from an unnecessary, unethical and harmful surgical amputation. Best regards and many blessings to All perfectly born intact little boys.


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## JLUK (Jun 16, 2015)

I confirm that the above accurately reflects my before/after experience.

Going through life with a permanently exposed "knob" is a daily inconvenience, to be understatingly polite, relative to the comfort and enjoyment of a natural foreskin.

My experience very much exposes what a rediculous practice this is - with real danger of serious and irreversable damage both physically and psycologically. It can make a man permanently frustrated or ill at ease with himself in 'that department'. Thats no way to be made to go through life.

No man, who has a healthy foreskin, would freely and willingly choose to have it amputated. They know how precious and irreplaceable it is in their lives. Just as no woman would offer her genitals to be mutilated.


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## PitBullMom (Sep 22, 2014)

I followed a very simple guideline on this - It's not my penis, therefore, it's not my decision to make.

The discussion of cleanliness is disturbing to me. Boys need to be taught how to properly clean themselves. Just like girls. We don't remove the labia because it's "hard to clean them", we teach proper hygiene.


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