# "Well, if you were a mother..."



## asoulunbound (May 16, 2006)

I don't agree with spanking. However, I'm not a mom yet, so when I voice my concerns, I am continually getting "Well, you don't have any kids. If you had kids, you'd change your mind on spanking" (or some variant of the same idea).
IT'S MAKING ME VERY FRUSTRATED.







:
I understand I don't have children. I would hope if i had children, you wouldn't feel the need to point that out, thanks.
However, I disagree that I don't "count."
I used to work in a domestic violence shelter (in the daycare), my fiance was abused as a child (he won't even let me put wooden spoons our the wedding registry!), and I've seen too many parents hit their kids because they are angry and/or tired (or lonely or hungry, to complete the H.A.L.T method!)
What do you say to someone who has said this? I want to be repsectful, but I like witty responses.







:
Any thoughts are appreciated... it really bothered me today for some reason.
thanks.


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## LianneM (May 26, 2004)

What do you say? I don't know, I never succeeded in getting people to take me seriously before DS was born. I totally understand what you mean, and I wish I had a better answer than that it does get better once you have a child. That topic came up for me as well as many others, and I am just enjoying the fact that NOW I can say something without people discounting my opinion like they did before I had DS.


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## peacelovingmama (Apr 28, 2006)

Ooh, that would really offend me! I suspect people who say that to you do so out of wanting to normalize their own failure to not hit. But it still rubs me the way-wrong way! Non-violence is one of my most cherished values and so, for someone to say this to me (even before I had kids) would have been akin to them saying something like: "Oh, once you're married for a while, you'll cheat on your spouse for sure." (although I consider hitting kids worse than cheating on a spouse - but that's a whole other can of worms!).

As for witty comebacks, I wish I had some to pass on. I guess it depends on how you feel around this issue. You could say something serious like: "Actually, I am very committed to non-violence and I am confident in my ability to rear children without resorting to violence. Thanks for your concern though." Or "I'm sorry to hear it's been hard for you. I'll bet parenting holds lots of challenges I haven't even imagined yet, but I will always strive to meet them without resorting to violence." Or, depending on how much detail you wanted to get into, you could share some of what you wrote in your post.

I, for one, always knew that hitting was out of the question for me. And I have never even come close to striking my children (now almost 5 and 2.5). I have total confidence that you too will follow your values and refrain from hitting. I'm sorry you have gotten these inconsiderate and offensive comments. They say WAY more about the person making them than they do about you.


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## wednesday (Apr 26, 2004)

I like what the PP said, boiled down to, "I didn't need to be married to know I would never cheat on my spouse." I think it's a succint way of saying that your values are your values even if they haven't been TESTED yet.


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## Kylix (May 3, 2002)

I hear ya, OP! I'm also not a mother and yet I've very outspoken about some of my beliefs. One of which is that I'm anti-spanking. Of course, I get "once you have kids, you'll see..." (Interestingly enough, my childless friends who are pro-spanking don't get the same dismissive comments or get told they will change their minds once they have kids).

(Also, interestingly enough, I have personally known more people who said they would spank and changed their minds once they held their babies, than who said they would not spank and changed their minds once they had kids).

My usual response? This is not a parenting issue for me, it's a human rights issue. All humans deserve not to be hit.

They usually still don't get it as "spanking" isn't hitting and children don't deserve the same rights as adults. But, it's what I feel and whether they "get" it or not has to not matter to me.

Kylix


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## peacelovingmama (Apr 28, 2006)

Another thought -- the humble approach -- "I admit that I don't know everything about having kids yet but I do know myself. And I don't hit people." Or as the pp said, "This is a human rights issue for me so although parenting might present many frustrations, I am confident that I will not react violently."


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## pookel (May 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *asoulunbound* 
I don't agree with spanking. However, I'm not a mom yet, so when I voice my concerns, I am continually getting "Well, you don't have any kids. If you had kids, you'd change your mind on spanking" (or some variant of the same idea).

50% of American parents don't spank. Obviously having kids didn't change THEIR minds.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/Da...oll021108.html


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## LoveBeads (Jul 8, 2002)

I was told the exact same thing. I then had kids and guess what? I don't hit them! I agree that it is a human rights issue, not a parenting issue.


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## maliceinwonderland (Apr 17, 2005)

When you do have your first child, it will change to "oh, but you only have one.." I get this all the time..in order for this golden line to work, you'd need to assume my daughter was completely "perfect" all the time, and ignore that she has asperger's and ADHD..but yeah..I guess my opinion will count when I get my gaggle of eight that I've always wanted


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maliceinwonderland* 
I guess my opinion will count when I get my gaggle of eight that I've always wanted









Not until they're all full grown


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## Chanley (Nov 19, 2001)

I *AM* a parent and I get one person who is mystified that I do not spank. She feels the need to inform me that she spanked her boys but did not have to do it often. That one or two times was enough to teach them.

She always asks, "you have NEVER had to spank them?" to which I give my standard reply, "I have never encountered a situation where I felt hitting my kids was going to create the relationship that I want."

So now she tells me that they are not old enough yet for me to encounter that. they are 6 and 3.

Don't worry, it may not stop when you have your gaggle.

You might even get told you are just lucky that you have really easy kids. (to which I always reply,"yes, I am very lucky in the kid department." and leave it at that.)


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## ShaggyDaddy (Jul 5, 2006)

Right now it's "Just wait till you have kids"
once you have your first it will be "Just wait till you have your 2nd"
once you have your second, it will be "Just wait till they are older"
once they are school aged it will be "Just wait till they are teenagers"

It never stops


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## Redifer (Nov 25, 2006)

I've been told that while waiting for DD to be born, and like a pp said, now I'm told that because I only have one child.

All I say is that "plenty of parents, and those with more than 1 child, are firm in their resolve not to spank, and we'll be those parents as well" and let it drop. People try to normalize and rationalize behavior they know is innappropriate by essentially browbeating those who DON'T do it, while telling them in not-so-many words that EVERYONE does it.


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## Smalls181 (May 12, 2006)

I would have said "I dont hit people, and children are people too."


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## Cheshire (Dec 14, 2004)

Great responses - also, how about:

You're right, I don't have kids and from what I hear the love for a child is even greater than I can imagine - you remember hearing that all the time before you had kids, how it changes everything, right? Well, I know that if I love someone that much I can't imagine a situation, any situation, where I would hit them. And, trust me, in my line of work I've seen the damage that hitting can cause.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

That is too funny!

Because I believed that it was not only O.K to spank your children, but it was the right thing to do.

Before I had a kid.

But, as soon as I had one of my own, I could not even imagine hitting her. I couldn't even bear to let her cry.


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## JustJenny (Nov 4, 2006)

I totally understand!! I'm not a mom yet either.







I get those comments a lot from family members. I really hate the snarky know it all comments - the ones with punctuated smirks and head bobs to boot! My Dad is the worst of all of them. He's very defensive and I think he actually regrets spanking us but won't say it. WHatever. I like the human rights issue comeback- I'll be using that one







:


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## jellop (Dec 11, 2006)

I used to say, "Yeah, but I don't believe in violence - especially towards children." Be prepared for the "I'm not violent, I'm disciplining". Funny, when one person hits another person - for ANY REASON - it's abuse; but when you hit your child (the most defenseless people), it's *discipline*







: . Makes me sick


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## asoulunbound (May 16, 2006)

Thanks all, makes me feel a little less weird.








The person who said that yesterday was one who advised another mother to let her kid cry it out... hmm, isn't that interesting. That was another conversation where I didn't count. All four women in that conversation were mothers, and they all said let your baby cry it out, I can't believe you're still nursing her at night, blah blah blah.
Do you think applying the respect of humans to a person who is pro-life (not trying to start a debate!) would be helpful?


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## Momtwice (Nov 21, 2001)

You don't have to be a mother to know that violence is wrong. You are a human being. You don't like it when other human beings are struck. Thank you for speaking up.


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## Momma Aimee (Jul 8, 2003)

"I don't have to be a mom 24 hours a day to care about kids, to respect them and to be oppsed to violence. Or to study altertive theories on disciplen"

Aimee


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## APMomOfKimmyN-Maya (Jun 1, 2006)

I particularly like a phrase that I just recently came across:

"Spanking does to a child's development, what wife-beating does to a marriage"

I don't know what to say about the childless thing, they won't stop saying that until you have a child- it truly is a completely different perspective you get going from childless, to being a mother but that doesn't mean your beliefs are any less valid.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

If I ever say "just wait until you..." I will dump a cup of ice water on my own head.

Now, I have told people "Some moms I've talked to* have said that they had trouble imagining co-sleeping/breastfeeding past a year/etc before they have kids but found it was just the right thing to do when they saw their baby's little face"

*i.e. you folks


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## Equuskia (Dec 16, 2006)

I'd ask them if they would let their husbands spank them when they don't do the dishes or burn the chicken. Would that be acceptable to them? After all, it's "discipline" right? You didn't do something right, you get "disciplined" for it. "Discipline" of choice: spanking. See what their reaction is then.


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## katallen (Jan 4, 2005)

They are really correct that your whole perception of things changes not only as a mother but also as your child ages and is into different stages where you need different strategies. But you are getting a head start at being gentle and you are connected with a list of many mothers who have children of all ages and have found that it works to be gentle and not spank. You could try pointing this out and saying that you are aspiring to be a mother along these lines with appropriate expectations, a connected relationship with your child, and you will be parenting in a non violent way. I would also not get into conversations about parenting if it does no good because not many people will take you seriously until you are a parent.


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## LeslieB (Feb 17, 2006)

Yep, another here who gets the "just wait", and I have a one year old. Or my mom's favorite response when I mention GD or why I won't spank: "Bologna."


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Equuskia* 
I'd ask them if they would let their husbands spank them when they don't do the dishes or burn the chicken.

I'd say "yes"







:







:







:


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

What really really really frosts me is the people who just assume my dd is easy - she is SO NOT EASY! She's very very spirited, stubborn, strongwilled, singleminded - and frankly, if she was someone else's kid, probably prime candidate for being the kid for whom "nothing else works". It makes me really sad when I think about it - I know it would "work", but what it would do to her spirit is unfathomable to me . . . and then I know I'd be dealing with a rebellious teen if I didn't completely squash her spirit.
No thanks. I think having an eye to her emotional health/maturity is a little wiser.


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## thehappyhippo (Jan 1, 2007)

Well, I have screwed up and I have spanked my child once. The key word was I SCREWED up, not my daughter. I lost control. To assume you can't possibly make up your mind before you have a child is ridiculous. Not spanking is a mindset, it is not a case by case basis. I lost focus of my goal and my values and that's why I screwed up. To make matters worse when I admit what I did to people I value they always say, "Oh, it's ok. You probably did the only thing possible in the moment." Um, no. Argh.


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## Marcee (Jan 23, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wednesday* 
I like what the PP said, boiled down to, "I didn't need to be married to know I would never cheat on my spouse." I think it's a succint way of saying that your values are your values even if they haven't been TESTED yet.









:


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## Marcee (Jan 23, 2007)

I developed my opinions on several things long before I was married or had children and have not changed them. (Except the part that I did not want children...lol)


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## Mountaingirl3 (May 21, 2005)

I always knew I wouldn't spank, and dh was abused as a child and is vehemently anti-spanking. The only thing I didn't know before motherhood was the power of the emotions you can have towards a child on a bad day. It is true that the sleep-deprivation/frustration/helplessness + sick/tired/screaming child is hard to imagine until it happens to you. All the more reason to think discipline through ahead of time, be educated on alternatives, firm in your beliefs etc.--you're doing the best thing to guarentee a violence-free family.

We had three kids in five years, btw, and never spanked. After a few times of grabbing them too tightly in anger, I decided that I won't even touch them when angry. I know my warning signs that I'm nearing the edge, and I walk away. Come back when heartrate and sense of humor have returned to normal







.


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## new to natural (Jan 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momtwice* 
You don't have to be a mother to know that violence is wrong. You are a human being. You don't like it when other human beings are struck. Thank you for speaking up.









:


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## zeldabee (Aug 23, 2004)

People said that to me about spanking, using paper towels, cups, dishes (I still don't), cloth diapers (used them until Sprogly was out of diapers), nursing (still doing it), junk food (hardly ever)...oh, I don't know what all.

I wish I had a nickel for every time I was told, you'll change your mind...

I'd have, like, $2.

"Oh, just you wait!" Yeah, thanks for sharing. Sprogly and I are doing just fine, thank you very much.

That said, I did cave on Barney.


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## asoulunbound (May 16, 2006)

Thanks. it is interesting how things change... when I joined MDC I was for spanking in limited situations. The more study I did on it, and the more I thought about it, I realised it was not for me. But I wouldn't have changed my mind were it not for all the articles and ideas y'all present here.
Thanks again!


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## ErikaLeigh (Dec 24, 2006)

Hey! I had to respond as I am not yet a mommy either!!~

I hate it when people say things like that and expect that because you are not a mother you don't have a mind.

I don't tend to get this with the spanking as much as circ!


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## oliversmum2000 (Oct 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pookel* 
50% of American parents don't spank. Obviously having kids didn't change THEIR minds.

or maybe it did - maybe they fully intended to spank and did change their minds









i dont personally have a problem with somebody telling me that i may feel differently in the future, i have changed enough over the years to know this is entirely possible, but what i do resent is somebody telling me how i will feel about something - now that really upsets me.


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

"Wait until you're a parent then you'll change your mind"
"Well now I wont ..just to prove you wrong.. Lucky for my kids;I am just that stubborn!"


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## PikkuMyy (Mar 26, 2004)

I'm not a parent yet. But I have been caring for other people's children from newborn to 12 yos for 16 years, both typical and with disabilities. And since I've managed to put it thousands of hours of child care, often times with horrendous behavior issues, and not used physical discipline a single time, I think I'll be able to continue that with my own children, thankyouverymuch!


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## Momtwice (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mountaingirl3* 

We had three kids in five years, btw, and never spanked.... I decided that I won't even touch them when angry. I know my warning signs that I'm nearing the edge, and I walk away. Come back when heartrate and sense of humor have returned to normal







.

This is excellent advice. Sometimes MAMA needs a timeout.


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## mamaofthree (Jun 5, 2002)

I have to say that you will see things differently when you do have kids... but that does NOT mean you will want to hit them. I think if you go into parenting with the mindset that you will not hit, then you are more likely to not do it. If you have read about the stages of child development you are more likely to see what is going on when your kids are acting all "weird" and making you crazy. I wish I had done more reading. I have had some very crappy mommy moments that I would give anything to go back and change.
I think it is the same for marriage... you don't really know what it is like to give yourself to someone 100% until you are married (or living together in a commited relationship). You don't know what it is like to be with a child 24/7 giving them all they need until you are doing it... but like I said it isn't like you have no idea what sort of parent you want to be, or that some stuff is just wrong. Does that make since? I am not trying to start a fight at all.
I just had sooo many ideas in my head before I had kids and now with #5 on the way.... well things have changed for sure. AND you know, each child is different (not saying that hitting is OK at all) you may have one that is a "angel" and another that is a loonely (I have all of that and everything in the middle. LOL) I couldn't say when my dd was born how hard it was to have a spirited child, because she was so easy... then ds#2 came along... man! That boy will try my patients at every turn. He has made me a much better mommy for sure.
Anyway...

H


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## bec (Dec 13, 2002)

Before I had kids, I was positive that I would spank. Having my daughter, staring into her beautifully innocent infant eyes, I had the revelation that I would NEVER hit her. Never. I've had two more daughters in less than 5 years, and I remain firm on that one. I'm still on a gentle discipline journey (especially as my patience is frayed by 3 very active young girls!), but I am always striving to do better, be more compassionate, more loving, more kind. These are the traits I want to teach my children should come from a mother. It boggles my mind that people think that you would want to go in the other direction.







:


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## asoulunbound (May 16, 2006)

now if I just got a tee-shirt/bumper sticker/etc. with one of those phases one it...


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## nd_deadhead (Sep 22, 2005)

I haven't read all the responses, so I hope I'm not being too repetative.

How about something like this:

"I understand that being a parent is the most difficult job in the world. I also believe that children are a precious gift, to be cherished and nurtured. That's why I have already made a promise to myself to never hit a child (mine or anyone else's), and I am already learning about ways to raise a child without using violence.


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## CityGranola (Mar 7, 2007)

I am a FTM. I was spanked as a child. I harbor no ill feelings toward my parents.

That said, I always said I'd be a spanker. Then, I birthed my son. My most precious gift, the light of my life, and the reason I get up in the morning. I once yelled at him (he was in danger - although it was my fault, which made it that much worse - he was going near a spill of Windex... I yelled "No!" so he didn't get in it.) He cried for 30 minutes because I yelled that at him - one word. So, we're pretty much as gentle as it gets here!

Even a stern word will cause the flood gates to open, and he's 22 months old now. The other day I said, "Jackson, we don't hit. Hitting is not nice." He cried.

So, you think I spank? Heck no! I really do not think I could do it, even if I tried. I just couldn't physically do it.

I'll admit that I get frustrated with him - he's very rambunctious, not to mention he has mild sensory issues so things are that much more special with him. He us stubborn and strong willed, and I wouldn't change it for the world.

Actually, this is the one thing I've changed my opinion on the most drastically. I've become far more AP-minded since having my son. So, I can say you may change your mind once you are a mom, but I really, REALLY doubt it!

I like the responses about knowing I wouldn't cheat before I married (still married, still have not cheated!) I also like the ones about husbands spanking the wives... So, I have nothing wittier for you, just sharing that I changed my mind - but for the opposite side - from pro-spanking to adamately anti-spanking.


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