# Did I overreact?



## Rachel_M (Feb 15, 2010)

I recently took my sister's two children to the park. The younger one is a girl aged 3, the other is her 9 year old brother.
We walked to the park, so my sister told me to put the 3 year old's harness and reins on her (she's a runner, god bless!).

For the return trip though, the brother was unhappy because we didn't stop off to get ice cream. He started chucking a tantrum and ran far ahead. I asked him to stop, but he said no.
Because it was getting dark, I took the reins off his sister and put them on him instead for the remainder of the walk home while holding the girl's hand very firmly (needless to say he was extremely upset with this).

Did I do the right thing, or was it an overreaction?

Also, just out of interest, what would you have done in this scenario if the child was older? Would you still turn to something like reins if the child was 12 or older but they still fit?


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## Go_to_Bed! (Mar 13, 2008)

I wouldn't have put the harness on him, but would have made it very clear that Auntie wouldn't be taking him anywhere anymore (and iterated it to his mother).


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## RiverSky (Jun 26, 2005)

I think that putting the harness on him was extremely rude. Honestly, he's going to now always remember that you did that to him and he's not going to think kindly of you for it.









I would have held his hand and said that the rule with me was to hold hands for safety. I might even say, "Yes, Auntie is a little overprotective but I want you safe because I love you, plus I want to talk to you." and I'd start asking questions about his likes, dislikes, friends, or anything that he loves to talk about, to keep him engaged and happy.


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## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)

He's 9? I would've talked to him about his frustration and anger over not getting what he wanted. I would've said that his behavior would cause me to think twice before taking him somewhere again. Yes, I think you way overreacted. Most 9 year olds can handle themselves pretty well, and can be trusted to be a bit ahead of the group.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Yeah... I'd likely not be too cool with "reins" on a 9yo. That's kind of humiliating.


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## doulatara (Jun 20, 2006)

I agree with the other posters. Did your sister get upset? Have you talked to her about it? I have to say, I would be furious if someone did this to my child. At nine kids are able to reason and negotiate their way through issues. They might need a moment to be upset, but from my experience typically they can get over it quickly and move on.

Obviously what is done is done- can you have a talk with him and first apologize, but second explain that you were incredibly frustrated and were at a complete loss as how to handle it?

Did anyone he might know see him? It would be terribly embarassing if so, and a humiliating experience regardless.


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## Rachel_M (Feb 15, 2010)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *doulatara* 
I agree with the other posters. Did your sister get upset? Have you talked to her about it? I have to say, I would be furious if someone did this to my child. At nine kids are able to reason and negotiate their way through issues. They might need a moment to be upset, but from my experience typically they can get over it quickly and move on.

Obviously what is done is done- can you have a talk with him and first apologize, but second explain that you were incredibly frustrated and were at a complete loss as how to handle it?

Did anyone he might know see him? It would be terribly embarassing if so, and a humiliating experience regardless.

Nobody saw him. That's the thing -- it was getting quite dark, and I really was at a loss as to how to handle it.
Having read the replies and taken their information on board, I would try to approach such a situation differently next time... but I'm still not exactly sure what else I could do. It was a stroke of luck that I managed to get the harness on him anyway, because he was pretty intent on running away from me; he absolutely wasn't going to hold my hand.


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## Kailey's mom (Apr 19, 2007)

Ya know.. you acted quickly, and handled it the best that you knew how to at the time. Don't beat yourself up, seriously. It's over kwim. I like the other advice given from the PP's, and firmly saying " You need to listen to me, or there will be no more Auntie taking you to the park" I bet you were scared since it was getting dark.. In the future, I wouldn't use the harness, but please don't beat yourself up for it (yes, I said it twice lol) Ask your sis what she would have done, would she have let him just run home, than gave him consiquences when he got there? If the park isn't too far, than that could be an option given his age. You have a good point though, I mean, if he is absolutly refusing to listen, and running, and he's too big to physically restrain *hold hands or carry* what do you do? Especially when you also have a 3 y/o in your care.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Um, with all due respect, YES. Way, way, way overreacted. The child is 9. Unless you were somewhere very, very sketchy, he would probably be fine running ahead of you, even in the dark. And if it were that sketchy, none of you should have been walking. Especially if this were an area that he was familiar with.

I'm sure that this was humiliating to him and that is never the right answer. Especially given that this was a public situation and there was, I assume, a risk of him running into someone he knew.

Its done and can't be undone. I do think you owe him (and his mother) an apology for overreacting and not thinking clearly. What to do next time? Let him go. Really. And when everyone is home, calmly explain that since you can't trust him to stay with you there won't be any more park trips for a while.


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## AnnieNimIty (Nov 14, 2009)

Small voice of dissent here... If the child isn't willing to negotiate, discuss or express themselves, what else would the natural consequence be?
Threats? When a child is upset (9 year olds too) sometimes they don't care about future consequences, just how they are feeling in the moment especially if they get a lot of "I don't like you doing that, Auntie won't take you in the future." He was concerned about the treat not the time with Auntie.
Letting him run off if they are close to home sounds like a good idea barring the kid having hurt feelings and not running home. What if he ran away and hid because he was mad?
OP's responsibility was to get the kids home to their mom safely and I think that she accomplished that.
As to it being humiliating to have a harness and reigns put on him, can you imagine him forgetting that lesson? Also, kids get privileges when they act up to those privileges. He was acting out and by that doesn't he forfeit certain things?
Granted it isn't ideal because it is a physical power struggle... but it was creative.


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evan&Anna's_Mom* 
Um, with all due respect, YES. Way, way, way overreacted. The child is 9. Unless you were somewhere very, very sketchy, he would probably be fine running ahead of you, even in the dark. And if it were that sketchy, none of you should have been walking.

Definitely. I am trying to pick my chin up off the ground here. Putting the harness on him was 100% unnecessary and completely humiliating. I have a nine year old, and something like that would end the relationship with you in her eyes.

If you could manage to catch up with him to even put it on him, why couldn't you just stay within eyesight and walk home, and not take him again if he couldn't be trusted to stay nearby?

I'd call and apologize to him and to his mother. And I wouldn't be surprised if it takes a long time to rebuild trust/affection with your nephew.


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## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

Overreaction big time unless he's got some special needs. I have a 9 yr old and there is no reason in the world to put a harness on a developmentally neuro-typical 9 yr old child. I hope you apologized to both the child and his mom.

If you could give some more particulars I can tell you what I would have done. Talking would be my first tactic. Empathize with his disappointment. Brainstorm other solutions (another time to get ice cream, a special treat to have at home, etc). Invite him to help you come up with a solution. If you're still having difficulty a call to mom or announcing that you'll need to call mom might do the trick. Harness is basically equivalent to putting him in diapers or a stroller. Really humiliating.


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## Kailey's mom (Apr 19, 2007)

OP:










































You came here asking a question, and for help. Ok, so next time, you know what to do. We ALL make mistakes, I don't think he'll be damaged, or hate you forever. And if he does show some dislike towards you, it's an easy fix: Sit him down and explain to him that you didn't know what to do, you wanted to keep him safe, and you acted quickly. Next time you expect him to behave so Aunti won't get scared. Period. I dont' think you are a bad person, or committed child abuse by any means. You didn't beat him into submission ya know.. You acted on impulse, and used a harness you already were instructed to use on the 3 year old, and put in in place for the 9 year old that you were afraid you were losing control with. Next time, let him run. Lesson learned. Next time, I bet he wont run off, so lesson learned for him too. If you were babysitting my kids, and this happened, I wouldn't be mad at you, NO. You clearly didn't know what to do..you kept my child safe. I would have just told you that when he acts like this, you are allowed to let him run off. I can just really sympathize with you.. We dont' use harness' of any kind, but I've also never been in a situation where an older child was running away from me out in public. Please don't beat yourself up.


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## Rachel_M (Feb 15, 2010)

Thanks for all the replies everyone, and thank you for your rather uplifting reply Kailey's Mom.









I'll be sure to talk it out with him next time I visit them.
Also, thanks for pointing out other solutions; I'm not a parent myself, I simply mind the kids from time to time as a favor to my sister... sometimes it's a little scarier than I'd like. With that said, though, I'll heed the given advice in future.


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## 3*is*magic (Sep 13, 2007)

Interesting. I see this as a safety issue. If my oldest (7 y.o. DD) runs from me on an unfamiliar, darkening street where there might be traffic and refuses to listen to me requests to walk with me, then I will use whatever is at my disposal to keep her safe. Dusk is the most dangerous time to be walking - it is hard for pedestrians to be seen by drivers. I would rather my (uncooperative) child be humiliated than hit by a car. I wouldn't trust an angry 9 year old to make the best choices about his own safety. He lost his aunt's trust by running away.

I don't think the OP overreacted. I think she made the best possible choice under the circumstances.


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## angelpie545 (Feb 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *3*is*magic* 
I don't think the OP overreacted. I think she made the best possible choice under the circumstances.

I agree. I also see this as a safety issue. It only takes two seconds for a car to hit a child or a stranger to drag him or her off. Yes, not likely to happen, but after dark, I'd be a bit apprehensive too. I can see how it would be humiliating, but I have a nine year old and she knows under no circumstances will running away from me be allowed, and if she does, appropriate consequences will be employed. Safety is just not something you can mess around with. I see the OP as being in a situation where she made the best choice she could at the time. Yes, maybe in retrospect there are things she could have done differently, but at the time, I probably would have done the same thing, honestly.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

Quote:

I don't think the OP overreacted. I think she made the best possible choice under the circumstances.










OP i would probably have done what you did if i thought of it. Some things are non-negotiable with me, and safety is one of them. 9 is old enough to recognise that it is dangerous to run off in the dark in protest of not getting ice-cream! Even my not-yet-4-year-old gets that is NOT ok. And if i was in charge of a 9 year old who was going to run off in the dark and not willing to negotiate i would do what you did. The choices in that situation are really limited. I think there is a big difference between a 9yo who is adventurous and wants to be a little ahead of the group and a 9yo who is running ahead KNOWING it is a dangerous thing to do in order to antagonise their carer as a punishment for not buying him ice cream. One of those kids is still likely to be thinking about his safety and in a rational mood, the other is not at all.

As to a child i did that to being potentially humiliated and never wanting to come to the park with me again....oh well is all i can say to that. Ideally i'd like to give a warning before i did something like that, but if i didn't have time...again, oh well. We all know i'm incredibly harsh by some standards here, but i am not unthinkingly so, i give out such consequences with a complete willingness to accept my own if there should be any.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angelpie545* 
I have a nine year old and she knows under no circumstances will running away from me be allowed, and if she does, appropriate consequences will be employed.

Yes, but you are her mother. The OP is not a parent and thus I think has less leeway in imposing consequences. Honestly, I would be really upset if any caregiver for my elementary-school-aged child than a discussion, an end to an activity or a request for them to remove themselves for the situation until they could be calm and rational.

For the OP -- if you care for these children regularly, do you have guidelines from the mother about what you should do when a child disregards your instructions? If not, you should definitely make sure you have a meeting of minds before you care for them again. What did she say about this situation? I think that will tell you a lot about what you should do the next time something goes wrong.


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## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)

My oldest child is 7 and has high-functioning autism, SPD, and probably ADHD. He's very impulsive for his age. I still deal with his tantrums and running away.

I'm not the perfect parent. Not by a long shot. And I'm not anti-punishment. But, forcing a child even older than my own into a harness seems overly punitive. It also seems like something one would to do purposely humiliate a child. There are other options.

I can understand someone who doesn't have experience with kids in that age group making such a mistake. But I can't understand why parents of a child that age would defend that choice as reasonable or appropriate. Even when defending it out of fear of (arguably unlikely) possibilities. There are more age-appropriate responses.


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## 3*is*magic (Sep 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evan&Anna's_Mom* 
Yes, but you are her mother. *The OP is not a parent and thus I think has less leeway in imposing consequences.* Honestly, I would be really upset if any caregiver for my elementary-school-aged child than a discussion, an end to an activity or a request for them to remove themselves for the situation until they could be calm and rational.


I disagree. The child's mother allowed her to take the children to the park with the expectation that she'd keep them safe. Putting him the harness accomplished that. Was it a consequence? Yes. But being hit by a car could also have been a consequence, and a far less desirable one. The OP asked the child to stop running away and he said NO. He chose to not act responsibly, so she stepped up to the plate. I would absolutely support her decision if she were my sister or caregiver. And it would be a long time before I'd allow my son to go on an outing like that again.


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## 3*is*magic (Sep 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lotusdebi* 
My oldest child is 7 and has high-functioning autism, SPD, and probably ADHD. He's very impulsive for his age. I still deal with his tantrums and running away.

I'm not the perfect parent. Not by a long shot. And I'm not anti-punishment. But, forcing a child even older than my own into a harness seems overly punitive. It also seems like something one would to do purposely humiliate a child. *There are other options.*

I can understand someone who doesn't have experience with kids in that age group making such a mistake. But I can't understand why parents of a child that age would defend that choice as reasonable or appropriate. Even when defending it out of fear of (arguably unlikely) possibilities. There are more age-appropriate responses.









She asked the child to walk with her and he refused and ran away on a darkening street the OP was unfamiliar with. At 9 years old he's too big to pick up and carry home, and she had a younger child with her so she couldn't chase him.

What, exactly, were those "other options" in this situation?


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

I guess I see a couple of assumptions here that I don't see data to support. Was this a traffic-hazard type of street? I guess I am picturing a suburban street with a sidewalk, in which case I really don't see the "hit by a car" danger. And if the OP cares for these kids regularly and this is sort of a routine, wouldn't she know the street at least somewhat? I guess I just don't see this as all that "dangerous". Unless this is really different that what I'm imagining, I think the best option was to let him go. This child is 9, not 2. That's old enough to rely on not to run in front of a car. In my neighborhood, I would allow my 10 YO to go to a within-walking-distance park on his own, so I don't see the big deal with letting him run away. Of course I would express my frustration to him and my disappointment in his rudeness and unreliability at the point where we came together again.

ETA: I'm guessing that those who see this as a major safety issue have much younger children and/or are visioning either a very dangerous urban street or a no-sidewalk-no-streetlight sort of rural sort of situation. We all come at these sorts of scenarios with our own situations in our heads.


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## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *3*is*magic* 
She asked the child to walk with her and he refused and ran away on a darkening street the OP was unfamiliar with. At 9 years old he's too big to pick up and carry home, and she had a younger child with her so she couldn't chase him.

What, exactly, were those "other options" in this situation?

Let's see- if she was able to get the reins on him in the first place, then obviously she caught up with him. So, she could have spoken with him about his feelings, her expectations of how close he should stay to her, and what the consequences would be if he didn't. She could have helped redirect his anger and frustration by coming up with a game, song, or other silliness for the rest of the walk home. They could have come up with a compromise that would allow him some space from her while he was angry, but still allowed her to keep him within view so that she didn't worry. I didn't get that the street was one the OP was unfamiliar with - they walked to the park, right? So, she was familiar enough to get to the park and make the return trip. Unless this child has been completely stifled, he should have the knowledge and experience by now to know how to safely navigate both a street and a sidewalk without the assistance of an adult. Kids can have tantrums, run off, and even do it all in the dark and still be safe. Especially 9 year old kids.

I have a harness that I used with my toddler. As difficult as my older son is, I can't imagine ever using it on him. I have had to get creative when dealing with both of them having tantrums away from home before, and even when both of them ran off in different directions before. There are ways of handling such occasions that don't involve a harness. Really. Though, I don't agree that you can't chase another child when you have a 3 year old. My almost-3 year old and I chase his older brother down the street all the time - just for fun!


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

Quote:

At 9 years old he's too big to pick up and carry home, and she had a younger child with her so she couldn't chase him
She DID chase him though otherwise how did she get the harness on him?

No 9yo I know would have sat still long enough to get a harness on them. If she could catch up to him(while still providing care for the younger child) then he really wasn't that far ahead to begin with. A threat of using the harness should have been enough.

If my sister did this to my kids it'd be the last time in a long time that she took care of them. I would have trusted my sister to be able to handle my kids in an appropriate manner or she wouldn't have taken them in the first place.

If I could still see the child I would have let them run a little ahead. They were mad & from what I read most likely going home. Unless there were known issues of safety with the 9yo the 9yo would have known to NOT run out into the street.


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## Lolagirl (Jan 7, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *3*is*magic* 
What, exactly, were those "other options" in this situation?

I totally agree, according to the OP:

Quote:

For the return trip though, the brother was unhappy because we didn't stop off to get ice cream. He started chucking a tantrum and ran far ahead. I asked him to stop, but he said no.
Because it was getting dark, I took the reins off his sister and put them on him instead for the remainder of the walk home.
It's awfully difficult (if not impossible) to reason with a child who is running away from you. As he was also mid-tantrum, it seems pretty fair to assume that his ability to act rationally and listen to reason was further diminished in this situation.

Quote:

This child is 9, not 2. That's old enough to rely on not to run in front of a car.
Perhaps that age is generally old enough for a parent to make this assumption. But, it sounds as though this particular child may very well have been so caught up in the moment that one could no longer rely on him to act responsibly and avoid running in front of a moving vehicle.

I think the OP did the best she could in a difficult situation to avoid a far more dangerous outcome, especially something like him getting hit by a car. As others have also pointed out, the OP was also responsible for the care of the boy's 3yo little sister, who is likely no longer all that easy to pick up and run with if she had to continue trying to chase her nephew. As it was also getting dark, the likelihood of him eluding her (or being obscured by a someone operating a vehicle down that street) was even greater than it would have been in full daylight.

I really think some of the harsher criticism is unwarranted. Sometimes caregivers and parents alike have to take the less than ideal solution when confronted with such a tough set of circumstances. It sure beats the guilt she would have to deal with if something bad had in fact happened to her nephew. Personally, I would rather my child's caregiver physically restrain my kid if it meant preventing him from harming himself, but then again I'm the meany mom who had no compunction with strapping my tantrum throwing, trying to run away kiddo into the stroller instead of trying to reason with him.


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

I wouldn't have used a harness on a 9 year old.

He was disappointed. Let him be disappointed and talk him through it. And explain that being disappointed is ok and showing that is ok, but running away is not.

Am I the only one who wants to know why they didn't get ice cream?


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## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beanma* 
Overreaction big time unless he's got some special needs. I have a 9 yr old and there is no reason in the world to put a harness on a developmentally neuro-typical 9 yr old child. I hope you apologized to both the child and his mom.

If you could give some more particulars I can tell you what I would have done. Talking would be my first tactic. Empathize with his disappointment. Brainstorm other solutions (another time to get ice cream, a special treat to have at home, etc). Invite him to help you come up with a solution. If you're still having difficulty a call to mom or announcing that you'll need to call mom might do the trick. Harness is basically equivalent to putting him in diapers or a stroller. Really humiliating.









:

I think you may need to stop taking the kids places alone until you have a better understanding of your nephew.


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## Kailey's mom (Apr 19, 2007)

Come on: I don't think it was the OP's intention to humiliate him. It seems she was scared, the child was out of control, and she used what resources she had to keep him safe. She didn't kick him in the leg, or trip him to get him to stop.. she used a harness she already had with her, that was supposed to be used for the 3 y/o. The child was not listening obviously. I'm SURE there could have been other ways to handle it, but the OP handled it the best way she knew how, and it wasnt' abuse.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kailey's mom* 
Come on: I don't think it was the OP's intention to humiliate him. It seems she was scared, the child was out of control, and she used what resources she had to keep him safe. She didn't kick him in the leg, or trip him to get him to stop.. she used a harness she already had with her, that was supposed to be used for the 3 y/o. The child was not listening obviously. I'm SURE there could have been other ways to handle it, but the OP handled it the best way she knew how, and it wasnt' abuse.

Yes, that is all true. But she is asking for feedback.


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## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

Kailey's mom: My 9 year old is starting puberty. I shudder to think what the effect of being bound by an adult would be.

9 years old is far too old, short of special needs, to be harnessed by an adult for any reason short of violent actions that cannot be handled any other way.

So, yes, it was an overreaction. The OP asked for information. Now she has it. It was an entirely inappropriate way to handle the situation.

She's going to need more tools in her toolbox before heading out with the children again for everyone's safety.

So what did happen around the ice cream?


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chfriend* 
So what did happen around the ice cream?

Not the OP, but she did say it was getting dark. Back to the pesky assumptions, but I'd guess it was close to dinnertime? Or maybe she didn't have any/enough money? The kids were already being difficult? She needed to get them home so she could go somewhere? Lots of potential reasons that I could see.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I wouldn't have done that. But, I would have certainly been really mad that he acted like I SHOULD buy him an ice cream.

At nine, I was going all over Chicago by myself. I would certainly not have chased a nine year old down the street. (I'm picturing my own neighborhood though) even after dark. He can sit in the front yard alone until the younger one and I got back.

A nine year old can probably run ahead a little way. Just a good loud *"See ya at home... watch out for wild dogs!"* would have been sufficient.


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## chiromamma (Feb 24, 2003)

Maybe a little OT...but I don't get the use of a leash with any age child. Doesn't it kind of run counter to the MDC gentle discipline thing?
I've also witnessed parents with those things inflicting whiplash injuries on their kids when they yank them back.


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## Kailey's mom (Apr 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chfriend* 
Kailey's mom: My 9 year old is starting puberty. I shudder to think what the effect of being bound by an adult would be.

9 years old is far too old, short of special needs, to be harnessed by an adult for any reason short of violent actions that cannot be handled any other way.

So, yes, it was an overreaction. The OP asked for information. Now she has it. It was an entirely inappropriate way to handle the situation.

She's going to need more tools in her toolbox before heading out with the children again for everyone's safety.

So what did happen around the ice cream?

That is true, I'm just afraid of hurting feelings.


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## Rachel_M (Feb 15, 2010)

Hi. Thanks for all the replies.

I noticed a few questions came up, so I'll answer them here (although the originally question has been answered anyway, so it probably isn't so useful anymore).

The park is about a mile or so away. The 9 year old is quite capable of walking that distance, the 3 year likes to walk some of it and then get carried for some of it. 

The reason for no ice cream was that I had some change, but not enough to buy them both one. A little embarrassing, but I never even considered ice cream for on the way there or home again.

As for the frequency that I do this, well, I don't do it very often. It's usually just a favor to my sister so that she and her hubby can do something like dinner. I guess you could say that I do something with the kids, alone, once every month or two.
Finally, the child wouldn't have been running to his place -- he would have been running to mine. I'm not sure whether I should trust that he'd get there on his own.


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## rikkirack (Feb 18, 2010)

((hugs))
i think you did what you could with the information you had at the time. no one here on MDC was with you to show you the perfect gentle way to handle it. sometimes, "talking it out " does not work you have to ACT to protect the child. period. so do not take the words of a bunch of people (including myself) whom you do not know and whom do not know you or that child.

if it had been me, after we got home, that child would know that it would be a cold day in you know where before we went to the park again, much less get ice cream.

fwiw:
i have a very busy 2.5 year old, she runs! i have harness for her and it has protected her on more than one occasion. i am glad, yes even great-full to have it.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chiromamma* 
Maybe a little OT...but I don't get the use of a leash with any age child. Doesn't it kind of run counter to the MDC gentle discipline thing?
I've also witnessed parents with those things inflicting whiplash injuries on their kids when they yank them back.

There have been threads on this. The gentle use is not to yank the child back, but to let the leash remind the child of how close they need to stay for safety.

LOTS better than the kid having no freedom to explore ("hold my hand or you have to ride in the stroller!!") and/or getting an arm cramp from holding their hand up the whole time.

Much more respectful than giving consequences for an age-appropriate lack of impulse control and desire to wander, while still giving a good safety net in case of trying to dart into traffic or wander too far away in a crowd.

My nephew needed one and refused to wear one and it was obvious to EVERYONE that he would have been happier with it instead of constantly needing to be in the stroller to keep him safe.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

As for what I would've done, I think I would've left the 3 year old on her leads to explore as she saw fit, and would've locked arms with the 9 year old so he would be walking WITH me and I'd tell him that it was totally unsafe to run off like that and that if he couldn't stay with me under his own power that I would help him.

Depending on the length of the trip, I'd either walk him all the way home like that, or I'd "let" him talk me into trusting him to stay with me.

And I would've freaked out and yelled at him first







Well "yell" more bellow, "stay with us!" and how I responded after that would really depend on how he reacted, like if he came right back I'd be more likely to just ask if he could handle staying with us or if he needed to hold my hand.

Obviously, can't say what I'd actually do in the moment, but in picturing the situation you describe in the OP, that's my first idea.

As it is, you've got some great ideas for if, heaven forfend, the situation comes up again.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Wow, "bound by an adult"? That's how people are seeing this?

He didn't stop when you asked and you had to basically chase him down and catch him like he was a toddler?

Frankly, I think you gave him too much freedom after he ran off. With me he would've been spending at least a block holding my hand at the very least and if I thought he'd run off from that he'd be held closer.


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Soooo, am I the only one DYING to know what the parents thought of this?









I would say not a _proud_ auntie moment, for sure, but nothing so awful he won't recover and one day look back on and laugh about...hell my dh's cousin *rolled him up in a carpet* once while babysitting because he was acting like a jerk when he was 9 and apart from developing mild clausterphobia, he's fine. Not advocating that, just saying kids are pretty resillient. He might even apologize to YOU for being such a brat to you over ICE CREAM! I mean honestly, what was that? Not cool. I am sure if you talk about it with him, he'll recover from the humiliation







.

I bet he never uses a harness on any of _his_ kids though.


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## Rachel_M (Feb 15, 2010)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hakeber* 
Soooo, am I the only one DYING to know what the parents thought of this?









My sister was understanding, but kinda struck me as a bit upset (but not wanting to say so). The hubby was understanding too, but remained his normal cheery self. It was only spoken of for a few minutes though when they picked the kids up, so we haven't spoken in-depth about it.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

I was thinking about this over night.

I never used a harness on my DD, mainly because it is impossible to "gently remind the child to stay close" if said child is grim determined NOT to stay close, whatever you say, ask or think, and holding her hand gave me a better control over her because she generally changed her body language before she ran in ways it was easier to read through her hand than reins.

BUT this harness was given to control a child who runs away and lacks the maturity to stay close when asked. That is EXACTLY the way it was used. It might not have been the intended child, but it was definitely the intended use.

OP - i would have been understanding and pretty embarrassed if my 9yo had driven you to such action. I would expect WAY better from my 9yo than that, especially in someone else's care.


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## Kreeblim (Dec 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chiromamma* 
Maybe a little OT...but I don't get the use of a leash with any age child. Doesn't it kind of run counter to the MDC gentle discipline thing?
I've also witnessed parents with those things inflicting whiplash injuries on their kids when they yank them back.

I've seen people inflict blackeyes on others with their hands, but that doesn't make hands abusive. It's all in how you use 'em









FWIW I always thought leashes were abusive before I had kids. Going alone to a crowded public place with two young toddlers changed my mind. It was literally a choice between staying in the house all day (we lived in a major city with no yard) or keeping them screaming in the stroller when all they wanted to do was walk. A 12 month old and a 21 month old (both boys, one with ADHD) are very small and fast and portable...in addition to the benefits listed by other posters I also saw it as another safegaurd against someone grabbing them and running off. We had many fun outings that would not otherwise have happened without the kid-leashes. Pre-kid me would have said "just tell them to follow you and put them in time out if they don't"







Cuz we all know 1 year olds are super obedient.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

Quote:

Cuz we all know 1 year olds are super obedient.
The annoying thing is that SOME of them are! I can remember when DD was about 18months and my friend visited with her baby and 2yo and her eldest stuck to her like GLUE and she said to me "oh, you're constantly holding her hand and talking to her - i just ignore mine and she knows to stick close". We were in a large park so i let go of DD's hand. She ran. When she hit the 300yards from us and still not glanced back mark my friend was like "oh. wow!" and i sprinted after her to bring her back. I have had so much "advice" from people on how if i just let her be she will learn to stick by me, and i have had 3 falls down stone stairs and one near-car-accident (with kid in road and car screeching to a stop) on the 4 occasions i have relented my normal position and tried it.


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## Tigeresse (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoBecGo* 
BUT this harness was given to control a child who runs away and lacks the maturity to stay close when asked. That is EXACTLY the way it was used. It might not have been the intended child, but it was definitely the intended use.

OP - i would have been understanding and pretty embarrassed if my 9yo had driven you to such action. I would expect WAY better from my 9yo than that, especially in someone else's care.

I agree. His behavior sounds more like that of a 5 year-old or younger. 9 years is plenty old enough to understand not having enough money for ice cream, or simply accepting a "no" w/out running off and having a tantrum, barring special needs.

I have never used a harness, so no experience there, but perhaps in this situation the OP is pretty lucky she had one.


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## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

I'd like to know how many parents who have a 9 yr old child (or have at one time had a 9 yr old) think using a harness is okay under any circumstances with a neurotypical (non-special needs) child.

Some of y'all have your children's ages in your sig or post, but many don't. There's a big difference between 6 and 9 for example. I have one of each and though my 6 year old would actually be less likely to run off than my 9 yr old I can come closer to seeing how someone could think it was a good idea to use a harness on a particularly exuberant 6 yr old (not that I agree with that either necessarily, but I could see it in certain circumstances). I really can't imagine ANY circumstance where the 9 year old is not special needs that a harness would be appropriate for walking down the street.

Do any of you other parents of 9 and up view it as appropriate in some circumstances?


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beanma* 
I'd like to know how many parents who have a 9 yr old child (or have at one time had a 9 yr old) think using a harness is okay under any circumstances with a neurotypical (non-special needs) child.

Do any of you other parents of 9 and up view it as appropriate in some circumstances?

My oldest is almost 8 and I would never use a harness on him. I do have a 9 year old nephew (non-special needs) who can throw an amazing tantrum. He's also very big for his age. I still wouldn't use a harness if he was in my care.


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## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beanma* 
I'd like to know how many parents who have a 9 yr old child (or have at one time had a 9 yr old) think using a harness is okay under any circumstances with a neurotypical (non-special needs) child.

Some of y'all have your children's ages in your sig or post, but many don't. There's a big difference between 6 and 9 for example. I have one of each and though my 6 year old would actually be less likely to run off than my 9 yr old I can come closer to seeing how someone could think it was a good idea to use a harness on a particularly exuberant 6 yr old (not that I agree with that either necessarily, but I could see it in certain circumstances). I really can't imagine ANY circumstance where the 9 year old is not special needs that a harness would be appropriate for walking down the street.

Do any of you other parents of 9 and up view it as appropriate in some circumstances?

I've got a 5 and a 9...and I know that beanma will laugh at the thought of *my* 5 year old running off....but I completely agree here. If for some reason my 5 year old ran off and I couldn't contain her, not that I would, but I could see the possibility of using some sort of restraint in an emergency.

My 9 year old? Not in a hundred thousand years. And if someone else did, honestly, I wouldn't have to restrict access to her in the future, because there's no way on this green earth that she'd consent to be alone with them.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beanma* 
I'd like to know how many parents who have a 9 yr old child (or have at one time had a 9 yr old) think using a harness is okay under any circumstances with a neurotypical (non-special needs) child.

Some of y'all have your children's ages in your sig or post, but many don't. ?


I would not be at all happy that my sister did that to my son.... But, I ASSURE you that if my nine year old behaved like that, he would have bigger problems than a harness.

It's not OK to harness a normal non special needs child. But, it is absolutely not OK for my nine year old to run off, be rude, or demand icecream. I can promise, that my own child would not act that way in the first place because it's not ever acceptable.

PLUS, I think a nine year old is capable of running ahead anyway. (not in a little tizzy fit, though) but, if my nine year old knows where to go, he or she can run ahead. I wouldn't chase them down. I wouldn't expect a nine year old to stay right next to me like that. In a mall maybe... but only because I don't want to have to spend my time looking for her.. but, on the street, "i'll see ya when I get there"


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

I have a 6 and 10 YO. Even on my 6 YO I would never use a harness, though I think they can be appropriate for some toddlers in some situations. At 9, DS was 100 pounds and showing the signs of beginning puberty. Not only would I not every consider using a harness on him but I would not expect him to stay that close to me on a reasonable suburban street, even at night.

I can't imagine what it would take to even get it on a child of that age, and I guess that's what I'm imagining and responding too so strongly -- a struggle and a complete violation of a child's bodily integrity. I mean, we tell our kids that no one has the right to touch them without permission and there is just no way that I can see this being accomplished without a violation of that. I don't even think forcing a child of that age to hold hands when they are unwilling would be appropriate for the same reason. So yeah, I see this as being violated by an adult he should be able to trust.


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

Quote:

Finally, the child wouldn't have been running to his place -- he would have been running to mine. I'm not sure whether I should trust that he'd get there on his own.
It's hard to say. If he'd only been there a half dozen times most likely not. However it would have been a good time to follow close enough behind him(10 feet or more) & verbally direct him if he was going the wrong way. Most likely if he got to a spot where he wouldn't have known which way to go(or to a street corner) he would have stopped and waited for you.

Quote:

I'd like to know how many parents who have a 9 yr old child (or have at one time had a 9 yr old) think using a harness is okay under any circumstances with a neurotypical (non-special needs) child.

Some of y'all have your children's ages in your sig or post, but many don't. There's a big difference between 6 and 9 for example. I have one of each and though my 6 year old would actually be less likely to run off than my 9 yr old I can come closer to seeing how someone could think it was a good idea to use a harness on a particularly exuberant 6 yr old (not that I agree with that either necessarily, but I could see it in certain circumstances). I really can't imagine ANY circumstance where the 9 year old is not special needs that a harness would be appropriate for walking down the street.

Do any of you other parents of 9 and up view it as appropriate in some circumstances?
I have an 11yo, almost 9yo & almost 8yo. I would not have used a harness on any of them at this age. I did use one on my oldest twice when she was 2.5.

I work with a severely non-verbal autistic boy(8yo) who sort of runs away, it's more of a hopping skipping move that's not to purposely run away but he's excited about something. He also eats anything(dirt, rocks, grass, snow, things that he thinks look like food like fun tac, playdough, baby wipes). I wouldn't use one on him either.


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## lmk1 (Sep 21, 2007)

I'd ask your sister what she would expect you to do in that situation. My nephews are older now, but when they were 9, they would have run away and did in a heartbeat, and did often. If we were somewhere, I'd tell them "Ok, I guess it's time to go home because we seem to have trouble remembering the no running away rules today." But, you were already on your way back. I love my nephews but they have always been bratty because no discipline is enforced consistently for them. And if I had a penny for every time someone threatened them with "This is the last time we go to the park, the zoo, the whatever." That does NOT work! Unless you are seriously going to follow up on it and NEVER again go with them to the park. And in doing that you're punishing the other kid because the whole point is for you to watch both of you, and you can't take one and leave the other.
I think the most important thing is that you kept them both safe. My feeling is that there's some discipline missing if a 9 year old runs away because he's not getting his way. Since you only are in charge of them once a month or so, it's hard to build up a repertoire of what to do in every situation. I think you should ask your sister about ideas of what you could've done. And have a conversation with your nephew about how it's unacceptable behavior to ever do that.


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

This thread reminds me of the literature about the use of restraints on adult hospital patients. Patients were tied up in bed or in chairs - purportedly for their own good. At one time, they were fairly commonly employed to prevent falls and other injuries. They fell out of favour though. It was realized that the restraints created feelings of rage and frustration and fear that actually increased agitation and resulted in dangerous reactions. The patients fought against the restraints and injured themselves.

I am having great trouble imagining a situation where I would use restraints on a 9 y.o. just because he was unhappy and behaving poorly. Running ahead isn't necessarily a dangerous situation, at least not for a tween. I am not comfortable with the idea of forcing him into a harness to physically impose control. Perhaps it was the only safe option - since I wasn't there, I'm not in a position to judge. I will say that I have never been in a situation where I would resort to using restraints on a 9 y.o. and I've worked with and supervised a lot of 9 y.o's.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

My son is almost 14.

How did you get a harness on a 9 year old boy while he threw a tantrum? I am seriously asking, because this might be the first discipline post I've ever read here that has me logistically stumped! I can't consider the degree of appropriateness without picturing the situation in my head, and I can't picture this. How did it work? Did you tackle him to the ground? Sit on him?


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## Kailey's mom (Apr 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heartmama* 
My son is almost 14.

How did you get a harness on a 9 year old boy while he threw a tantrum? I am seriously asking, because this might be the first discipline post I've ever read here that has me logistically stumped! I can't consider the degree of appropriateness without picturing the situation in my head, and I can't picture this. How did it work? Did you tackle him to the ground? Sit on him?

Good point. Is the harness one of those backpack monkey things? That would be a pain in the butt to put on a tantraming 9 y/o.







If he stood still, I wonder if he wanted to wear it, maybe trying to embarass you..that's one smart cookie


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## doulatara (Jun 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beanma* 
I'd like to know how many parents who have a 9 yr old child (or have at one time had a 9 yr old) think using a harness is okay under any circumstances with a neurotypical (non-special needs) child.

Do any of you other parents of 9 and up view it as appropriate in some circumstances?

This is exactly what I was about to post. I suspect that people who posted that putting a harness on a neurotypical 9 yr. old do not know too many 9 yr. olds, not well anyway.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ollyoxenfree* 
Running ahead isn't necessarily a dangerous situation, at least not for a tween.

Good point. I assumed it seemed dangerous because the OP thought a harness was necessary, but it occurs to me I'm projecting based on my experiences with kids who do dart not on my experiences with 9+ year olds. I think because I can't imagine any of the kids over 9 I know running off.


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## Kailey's mom (Apr 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *doulatara* 
This is exactly what I was about to post. I suspect that people who posted that putting a harness on a neurotypical 9 yr. old do not know too many 9 yr. olds, not well anyway.

LOL.. the closest thing I know to a 9 y/o is my own memories of being 9


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heartmama* 
My son is almost 14.

How did you get a harness on a 9 year old boy while he threw a tantrum? I am seriously asking, because this might be the first discipline post I've ever read here that has me logistically stumped! I can't consider the degree of appropriateness without picturing the situation in my head, and I can't picture this. How did it work? Did you tackle him to the ground? Sit on him?

I wondered the same things. I also wondered where the 3 y.o. was while all this was going on. If the 3 y.o. NEEDS the harness, then wasn't she running off while getting the restraints on the 9 y.o.? How did that work? And if she wasn't running off - then does she really need them?

OP, it sounds like the whole situation was too overwhelming for you to control without using physical force on the 9 y.o. You may want to reconsider being alone with them again.


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## angelpie545 (Feb 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beanma* 
I'd like to know how many parents who have a 9 yr old child (or have at one time had a 9 yr old) think using a harness is okay under any circumstances with a neurotypical (non-special needs) child.

Some of y'all have your children's ages in your sig or post, but many don't. There's a big difference between 6 and 9 for example. I have one of each and though my 6 year old would actually be less likely to run off than my 9 yr old I can come closer to seeing how someone could think it was a good idea to use a harness on a particularly exuberant 6 yr old (not that I agree with that either necessarily, but I could see it in certain circumstances). I really can't imagine ANY circumstance where the 9 year old is not special needs that a harness would be appropriate for walking down the street.

Do any of you other parents of 9 and up view it as appropriate in some circumstances?

I have a nine year old, and if it was a safety issue, I would have no issues using a harness. I'm sure to get flamed for saying that, but if my daughter was he** bent on running down a dark, busy street away from me and the only method I had to keep her close was a harness, I'd use it. JUST in that situation. Of course, that would be extremely strange behavior for my daughter, so I'd probably have to sit down and have a long talk with her, but safety speaking, I'd rather have an upset and embarrassed kid than a dead or missing kid. Just to clarify, I don't think it's a method that should ever be used regularly on typical children, I'm just saying I can think of circumstances where I'd rather use it than not.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angelpie545* 
I have a nine year old, and if it was a safety issue, I would have no issues using a harness..

If it were truly a safety issue, I'd use a dog leash if I needed to.

Totally off topic. My cousin lived with her husband, two preteen sons and their baby daughter in an actual swamp in the middle of nowhere in Florida. (I have no idea why they moved there)

Anyway.. when Shay was walking, and the family needed to fish or hunt, they would actually TIE Shay to a tree so if an Alligator (or crocadile.. I have no idea what they have in the swamps of Florida) tried to grab her, the parents would have a chance to shoot the alligator before it could drag her into the water.

Yes.. they were/are the weirdest people on earth. But, I thought their idea of "the best safety measures available" were pretty interesting. And, today, Shay is 19 years old, and still remembers being tethered to a tree as a child. But, she has no bad memories of that. Kids are resiliant.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

I'd like to know how many of the parents with 9 year olds have a nine year old who would actually run away in the dark when not going to their own home address because they didn't get ice cream?

It's all very well to assume that those of us who would use this measure have never met or experienced a 9 year old, but i wonder how many of you have normal 9 year olds who actually behave like this, and how you expect others to care for them in this sort of situation?

I don't have a 9 year old, but i know and have cared for plenty and NONE of them acted like this, they were all very mature individuals by comparison with this standard. If they had acted like the child as described i would have met as i found.


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## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

GoBecGo, my 9 yr old would run some distance away and then stop if she was really upset. I doubt if she'd do it in the dark because she's actually very cautious and I doubt she'd do it over ice cream, but I wouldn't put it past her. I'd never put a leash or a harness on her, though. I would expect other people who are caring for her (say her grandmother) to call to her and ask her to stop and reiterate the explanation as to why they couldn't stop for ice cream. I'm sure if it was explained that there was no money and they could do it another time or have another snack when they got home she wouldn't keep running away. She'd never run very far anyway, though, she's just not that kid.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

No, I cannot imagine my child doing this at 9 (he's 10 now). I can't imagine my 7 YO doing this either. Not over ice cream or not getting their way about something. But they certainly have run away as a "game" or because they were feeling full of energy and I was walking too slowly for them(I'm overweight and asthmatic -- I don't walk veryfast). I would expect a caregiver to call out "STOP!" and I would expect them to do so. If they didn't I would expect the caregiver to continue walking, keep the kids in sight as much as possible and yell something like "I'm headed for X. I hope you will be there when I get there" and proceed. If they didn't arrive at their destination, I would expect caregiver to call me. I would handle some sort of consequence once I was home -- I do not expect nor want a caregiver doing it.

I do not see any huge safety issue here though. Honestly. My kds walk and run down the street at dusk all the time. I cannot for the life of me picture any scenario where I felt safe walking but felt that a tween in front of me was not safe. If it were a bullet-dodging area, then none of us would be safe. Stranger-kidnappings are actually so rare that they don't hit my radar (of course, if the parents were in a custody fight or there were other things that we don't know, this could be a bigger riks, but that seems a BIG assumption). Car jumping up onto the sidewalk and hitting us could happen whether the group were together or not. Car turning into driveway or street and hitting child? Maybe, but again, child is not tiny and even in a major emotional meltdown I'm pretty sure my 9 YO would watch for a car when crossing a street. Child gets lost? Again, not a completely unfamiliar neighborhood, so seems unlikely. And a little lost and therefore scared? Great natural consequence. So where is the huge safety issue that would warrent leashing this child? I cannot for the life of me see it.


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## Kreeblim (Dec 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoBecGo* 
I'd like to know how many of the parents with 9 year olds have a nine year old who would actually run away in the dark when not going to their own home address because they didn't get ice cream?

It's all very well to assume that those of us who would use this measure have never met or experienced a 9 year old, but i wonder how many of you have normal 9 year olds who actually behave like this, and how you expect others to care for them in this sort of situation?

I don't have a 9 year old, but i know and have cared for plenty and NONE of them acted like this, they were all very mature individuals by comparison with this standard. If they had acted like the child as described i would have met as i found.

Yeah, I have been thinking about this thread and just don't know how exactly to respond, mostly because I can't imagine a normal 9 year old acting in such a way that this would be needed. I had a 5 year old cousin do something kinda similar, but holding hands for the rest of the walk did the trick. I keep thinking "well maybe the 9 year old is too strong or out of control to hold hands..." but then wouldn't he be able to get out of (or stop himself from being strapped into) a small childs harness? It's just hard to wrap my mind around


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## lab (Jun 11, 2003)

I think he was being a little stinker and trying to take advantage of Auntie. I bet that kid will think next time before messing around with his Aunt!

I think you did okay!


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## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

My 9 year old is nearly 5 feet tall. She weighs around 100 pounds. I believe (hope) that she would defend herself if someone tried to put a leash on her.

"Little stinker" for anyone over 3 years old is not accurate.

I personally believe there is more the the story than he wanted ice cream and the aunt didn't have change with her. Something in the story doesn't ring right since every person who has or had a 9 year old can't imagine that scenario.


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## lmk1 (Sep 21, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chfriend* 
I personally believe there is more the the story than he wanted ice cream and the aunt didn't have change with her. Something in the story doesn't ring right since every person who has or had a 9 year old can't imagine that scenario.

Very possible, but this would be right on for my nephews. If they don't get their way, this would be totally their reaction. Perhaps, mamas on MDC spend more time disciplining their kids...don't know...so you can't imagine your child doing this, but like I said, I can totally see my nephews doing this.


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## Purple*Lotus (Nov 1, 2007)

Wouldn't a nine year old be able to easily take the harness off? I have seen a few harnesses that are used for toddlers and all of the 9 year olds that I know could take it off without a problem. This thread confuses me


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## Kreeblim (Dec 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmk1* 
Very possible, but this would be right on for my nephews. If they don't get their way, this would be totally their reaction. Perhaps, mamas on MDC spend more time disciplining their kids...don't know...so you can't imagine your child doing this, but like I said, I can totally see my nephews doing this.

Oh I can totally imagine a 9 year old acting as the OP describes...it's the rest that's hard to fathom. Assuming your nephews are average size and otherwise normal, can you imagine them being wrestled into a harness and then walking home like that? I mean I guess it's just hard for me to see a 9 year old kid that is so out of control that they need a harness, actually walking home in said harness without a battle. These are things made to hold a 2 year old after all.

So I guess it's the idea that a 9 year old would be so totally out of control that they REQUIRE physical restraint...yet a restraint meant for a much younger child does the trick? My sister had very violent tantrums until her teens and my mom literally had to call the cops to help get her under control (starting around age 9). It's really hard to understand what exactly happened here.


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## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmk1* 
Very possible, but this would be right on for my nephews. If they don't get their way, this would be totally their reaction. Perhaps, mamas on MDC spend more time disciplining their kids...don't know...so you can't imagine your child doing this, but like I said, I can totally see my nephews doing this.

In public? Over ice cream? And submitted to the leashing?

If a kid is tantruming, the leash isn't going to work. If the kid is not tantruming, there's not need for it.

I spend a lot of time with 9 year olds (we homeschool). I continue to believe and hope that my child would physically fight before submitting to being leashed and led.

There's more to the story.


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## lmk1 (Sep 21, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chfriend* 
In public? Over ice cream? And submitted to the leashing?

If a kid is tantruming, the leash isn't going to work. If the kid is not tantruming, there's not need for it.

I spend a lot of time with 9 year olds (we homeschool). I continue to believe and hope that my child would physically fight before submitting to being leashed and led.

There's more to the story.

No one in my family has ever even owned a leash or toddler restraint of any kind. What I said is that I can totally see my nephews throwing a tantrum over ice cream or any other thing where they didn't get their way. Since you homeschool, you obviously spend a lot more time with your child, and both you and your child have different expectations from each other. I do believe that a 9 year old acting this way is showing a lack of discipline (by the parents). Also, with my 2 nephews the older is MUCH more like this, and the younger one more like this only when he sees the older one getting away with it, because he's got a completely different character. Because once there's a
safety situation like this, they don't consider (especially the older one) their own risk, they know the parents (or whoever) will worry enough about them to say "ok, ok, we'll go home and get money for the ice cream and get it for you". Heck, I've seen them eat 5 ice cream bars at one sitting with their parents telling them, "don't you think that's too many?".
Would the parents restrain them? No, because they don't own anything to restrain them with.


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## lmk1 (Sep 21, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kreeblim* 
Oh I can totally imagine a 9 year old acting as the OP describes...it's the rest that's hard to fathom. Assuming your nephews are average size and otherwise normal, can you imagine them being wrestled into a harness and then walking home like that? I mean I guess it's just hard for me to see a 9 year old kid that is so out of control that they need a harness, actually walking home in said harness without a battle. These are things made to hold a 2 year old after all.

So I guess it's the idea that a 9 year old would be so totally out of control that they REQUIRE physical restraint...yet a restraint meant for a much younger child does the trick? My sister had very violent tantrums until her teens and my mom literally had to call the cops to help get her under control (starting around age 9). It's really hard to understand what exactly happened here.

I can't really comment on this part...I don't know if kids who see their younger siblings being restrained would react differently to having a harness themselves. I can't conjecture on it as I've never even held a restraint in my hands and my brother has never owned one for his kids. I believe they used the stroller much more for that...but that's another story. I don't agree with the parenting style used with my nephews in many ways and that's part of why I'm on MDC so much ... to see other styles that actually make sense and work.


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmk1* 
Because once there's a
safety situation like this,

See, I've never been convinced that this WAS a safety situation.

All the OP said was "Because it was getting dark" she put the restraint on him. But they were walking home, which suggests that it was a familiar neighbourhood. He's 9 y.o., not 3 or 6. Most 9 y.o.'s can go ahead on their own - even an angry one who wants to be left alone to nurse wounded feelings.

It seemed to me that the OP was overwhelmed and didn't know how to handle it. So she resorted to physical control out of frustration.

I still want to know what the 3 y.o., who needed the restraints in the first place, was doing while she wrestled the 9 y.o. into the harness.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beanma* 
Do any of you other parents of 9 and up view it as appropriate in some circumstances?

DS1 is almost 17. I remember him at 9 very well. I can't imagine even thinking about using a harness on him at that age. He ran off sometimes, hid in stores (would follow us like a "spy"), etc. I wasn't concerned.

DD1 is 6.5, and I wouldn't use a harness on her, either, unless she wanted to put it on to play (far more likely to be a game with her little brother than with me).

I have used a harness in the past, but I wouldn't even consider it for a neurotypical 9 year old.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoBecGo* 
I'd like to know how many of the parents with 9 year olds have a nine year old who would actually run away in the dark when not going to their own home address because they didn't get ice cream?

I can't imagine ds1 getting that upset over ice cream at 9. I can imagine him running off to somewhere other than home, while it was getting dark, if he were upset, though.

OP: Out of curiousity, how dark are we talking about?


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bunnyflakes* 
Wouldn't a nine year old be able to easily take the harness off? I have seen a few harnesses that are used for toddlers and all of the 9 year olds that I know could take it off without a problem. This thread confuses me









I wondered about that, too.


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## doulatara (Jun 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoBecGo* 
I'd like to know how many of the parents with 9 year olds have a nine year old who would actually run away in the dark when not going to their own home address because they didn't get ice cream?

It's all very well to assume that those of us who would use this measure have never met or experienced a 9 year old, but i wonder how many of you have normal 9 year olds who actually behave like this, and how you expect others to care for them in this sort of situation?

I don't have a 9 year old, but i know and have cared for plenty and NONE of them acted like this, they were all very mature individuals by comparison with this standard. If they had acted like the child as described i would have met as i found.

I have a ten y.o. and spend significant time with many 9-11 year olds through Girl Scouts, playdates, hanging around my dd's school and going on field trips as a chaperone, have lots of nieces and nephews and adult cousins who have kids in this age group, am a volunteer camp counselor at the local Girls Rock camp, ride public transportation everyday to and from school with my daughter and several kiddos in her age group, etc. My daughter is and always has been really calm and not hard to handle...I don't think she would have run off at 3, much less 9.

As for higher spirited, but still considered "normal" or neurotypical kids....I can't think of ever being in a situation like this where I felt like everything was so out of control. I tend to think I am pretty great with kids, but I think a thoughtful conversation could have diffused the situation pretty well. I can think of a few really high-spirited kiddos that are just really independent and I know their mom's let them roam a bit more than I am comfortable in really crowded, high traffic type areas (I live in a big city) but I can usually level with them and say "So,I am feeling neurotic here, it is so crowded and I just really need you to make sure I can see you and you can see me at all times." There are times when they are distracted and move out of my field of vision but not too far and they are usually checking back with me within 30seconds or so. If I need kids of this age to stay closer I have said so, and made it clear that this is a non-negotiable moment and they get it and stay close until we have crossed the street or passed into a safer-feeling area.

I just think the best way to deal with kids in this age group is to try to respect their need for autonomy while setting limits in situations where their safety may be compromised. It is pretty easy to reason with kids in this age group, you just may have to be thoughtful in the way you go about it as the grownup in the situation.


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## Mountaingirl79 (Jul 12, 2008)

I have a 9 year old ( and a 7 year old..) and I can't imagine trying to get anything on him he didn't want to wear...lol...he's almost as tall as I am!! He could probably harness me!







He would also be highly upset/embarrassed about being harnessed but then again, he is the type of child to follow rules.
So anyway, I have never run into this particular problem. I would think that while it's not the best solution, it's not the worst by far. It's not like you lashed out or berated him.
Next time I would set clear expectations about what we were doing, and what we weren't doing before we left for our adventure.


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## hsmamato2 (Jun 2, 2003)

haven't read whole thread yet,but I know I'm in the minority here, I think Auntie did the best she could while chasing a 9 year old and holding onto a toddler. I don't think she owes the kid an apology. In fact,IMHO the kid owes her an apology,for putting her in the position of even having to consider doing what she did.
I wouldn't have done it,but I have many years of experience in caring for all kinds of kids. I don;t think a harness is a great idea for a kid that age,neither do I think it's the end of the world. In reality,my 9 year old would feel ashamed for acting so foolishly and needing Auntie to treat him like a 'baby'.
If I were Op,I'd try to talk with the kid when I had some time to spend walking and talking,perhaps gently help the kid to see his own actions caused his aunt some worry- maybe they could agree on certain parameters for next time.....


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## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

My older DS might have done something similar at that age. But if I had tried to leash him, he would have just sat on the ground and refused to move.

Of course, he did the same thing when he was 18 mos. old and I tried to use a harness on him in LAX airport.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Well, I could totally see my 9 year old throwing a fit and running off ahead because he was mad. (And, ftr, he's been a run away-er since he learned to walk. He _did_ use a toddler "leash" when he was little!) What I could NOT see is considering it a safety issue if he did. I'd be upset with him, but I wouldn't worry for his safety. Like others here, I can't imagine being able to physically get something like that on a non-compliant child the size of my son. We'd both probably end up getting hurt, and then he'd plop himself down on the ground and refuse to budge until I took the flipping thing off.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

I have 13 and 9 yo sons. The scenario makes no sense to me.

1) I could not catch my 9 yo. if he ran off. He's faster than I am. Even if I were in better shape than I am, I'd not be able to catch him with a 3 yo. in tow.

2) If he was not listening to my directions about staying reasonably close and walking with me, he would certainly not submit to having a harness put on him. He would fight it. I cannot physically fight my nine year old. I'd have to be willing to really hurt him in order to do more than simply restrain him. _If he was cooperative enough to submit to having the harness put on, then he was cooperative enough not to need it._


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaduck* 
*If he was cooperative enough to submit to having the harness put on, then he was cooperative enough not to need it.*

Yes. Well said.


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## 11yearslater (Mar 2, 2010)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hsmamato2* 
I don't think she owes the kid an apology. In fact,IMHO the kid owes her an apology,for putting her in the position of even having to consider doing what she did.

I agree. I also wouldn't be too worried about the child feeling humiliated and ashamed. I don't believe we should intentionally set out to shame/humiliate children, but it is good for them to learn that when you act in a shameful way, you end up feeling ashamed and sometimes acting stupidly has the natural consequence of you end up humiliated.

I have an eleven year old son. I can't imagine him acting like this at any age. But at nine? If he did that to me at 9, he had better hope that some DR diagnosed him with a neuro disorder of some kind, or he would be in big, big trouble and getting leashed would be the least of his problems.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *11yearslater* 
...but it is good for them to learn that when you act in a shameful way, you end up feeling ashamed and sometimes acting stupidly has the natural consequence of you end up humiliated.

If my nine year old ran off like that, apparently over not getting an ice cream, I'd be worried about what was really going on with him/her, to be honest. I also think calling it "shameful" is a bit over the top.

Quote:

I have an eleven year old son. I can't imagine him acting like this at any age. But at nine? If he did that to me at 9, he had better hope that some DR diagnosed him with a neuro disorder of some kind, or he would be in big, big trouble and getting leashed would be the least of his problems.
Seriously? What on earth would you do to him if being leashed would be the "least" of his problems? Leashing a nine year old is pretty major.

I really, really doubt this was about ice cream, no matter what it looked like...but, if it is, then this boy would seem to have some genuine issues with impulse control, delayed gratification, etc. Humiliating him won't fix that.


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## Kreeblim (Dec 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaduck* 
_If he was cooperative enough to submit to having the harness put on, then he was cooperative enough not to need it._


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