# Prepping the Body for Optimal Pregnancy Conditions



## Cenote (Dec 14, 2004)

You women are incredible, so intelligent, informed and generous with your time and information! Thank you so much. My 5and1/2 yo ds also thanks you - this board was very influential on my views on vaccines years ago (even though my post numbers aren't that big, I've been around for a long time first as Michellecat, then Earthwind after the crash, now as Cenote since I couldn't remember my password and had to create a new moniker).

Oh, and in case I didn't do so already, on the thread about amalgams, thank you so much for helping me out with that.
















I've been keeping up with What Causes Autism thread and it occurs to me - how would one really get the body ready pregnancy to have an optimally healthy child.

I ask this because my dh and I are hoping to conceive in a few months, but will postpone if there's more work I need to do. I'm familiar with Nourishing Traditions and am currently seeing a fab acupuncturist who is doing a great job of balancing my hormones (corrected a low progestrone issue pretty quickly). Per her instructions, I'm taking Bs (with recommended amounts of folic), cod liver oil, spirulina and an adrenal support supplment. On my own I'm taking 1000-2000mcg C and acidopholus (when I remember).

Also, it should be noted that I had a very complicated and difficult miscarriage last December 2004 (fetus died at 10 weeks, miscarried at 15 weeks, retained tissue, bleeding enough to cause anemia over the next month, D&C, then uterine infection requiring hospitalization and powerful IV antibiotics - a month of miscarriage). After getting out of the hospital, our family life got really crazy with my dh out of town a lot, my ds hating preschool and me having no time to myself. So, chocolate and I got real friendly - and my body showed it!. Since the summer I've been dancing 5-7 days a week, lifting weights and doing high intensive interval training for cardio. I've gotten about 4 sizes smaller, increased my muscle mass and lowered my bodyfat percentage considerably. I'm eating six meals a day (a carb and protein in every meal - along with a green veggies). I eat 95% organically - especially meat and eggs - and rarely eat out. Coffee is pretty much out of picture. I should also mention that over the summer I did a candida diet for about 2 and a half weeks (was too active to keep doing it for much longer and needed a nutritional plan that allowed for my active lifestyle). I STILL haven't done anything about my fillings and might wait (I only have 4).

So, what else would be a good thing to include (or change) about what I'm currently doing to prepare for a pregnancy?

I know this is probably a big question to ask, but I bet many moms and wanna be moms would want to have some place to start. And I'm a firm believer in preconception nutrition!

If you got through this, thanks!!!!
















Hope you are all well!!!










Michelle


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## Gitti (Dec 20, 2003)

Sounds to me like you are trying to be super healthy. And I really admire you for doing all those things.

Here is what I would suggest to my own dd if she were in your situation.

Continue to eat healthy. By that I mean organic everything including eggs. But cut out meat and milk (hormones), fish (mercury), sodas, caffeine, sugar and anything white.

Cut out everything you can with any preservatives, fluoride, artificial coloring.

Eat as much raw stuff as possible. Sprout/soak your grains, seeds, nuts before eating them and eat them raw. Use only whole wheat, whole rye, whole grains and sprout them. East lots of organic fruit, wash everything before peeling it, even bananas.

Cut out all vitamins, minerals. The capsules are made from gelatine and I don't trust that. Also, some of those things cause an imbalance.

Continue to take probiotics (powder), cod liver oil (liquid) or eat organic yogurt, kefir, etc. Your vita C should only come in powder - Sodium Ascorbate. But you don't need it unless you are sick or getting sick.

I am not so sure about the necessity of carb and protein with every meal? Some of those things are more of a fad than a body need.

Acupuncture can under certain circumstances cause Hep B so be very careful.

All this is my personal opinion and may not be agreeable with everyone here. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. So, just state your own suggestions please.


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## Momtezuma Tuatara (Mar 3, 2004)

I was going to post some information on the other thread, but Cenote, do you mind if to avoid doing this twice, I use your post as an example, take out key bits, post here and cross-post back to the other thread?

That way, I can deal with both at once, because it will be a long reply.


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## Cenote (Dec 14, 2004)

Thanks , Gitti! Great information. I have actually looked at a raw diet. And I know there is lots of controversy around the meat/milk issue. I haven't quite figured out how to work out as hard as I am and not have the protein that my body needs to build muscle. Thanks for reminding me of the options.









And Momtezuma Tuatara - no problem! I appreciate any wisdom you care to impart on me and in any thread!!!









Again, my thanks to you all







!

Michelle


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## Mommy To Baby Roni (Mar 21, 2003)

It sounds as if you are doing everything right. I'd make sure you are getting enough of all the omegas - 3,6 & 9. When you're a couple of months away from being ready, start taking a good quality prenatal. Reading labels is really going to be important here, as they can be so different. Taking calcium during pg is very important, as well, since the developing baby sucks it right out of you, often causing cavities and other problems.

I've found an awesome book called A Natural Guide To Pregnancy and Postpartum Health by Dean Raffelock, DC and Robert Roundtree, MD to be a great book for POSTpartum recover. They had some extremely helpful and important information regarding the need for and necessary dosage of omega oils in pregnancy. This book primarily focuses on postpartum health/recovery and how lack of it can cause PPD and serious long term health problems. You might find it helpful now, seeing that you have had a child. They stress that many women never recover, hence how their health depletes and the incidence of PPD increases with multiple pregnancies.

There's also a great book on children's nutrition. I find that it is just as applicable to adults, esp. pg women. I'll get the title and website to buy it for you tomorrow.


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## Momtezuma Tuatara (Mar 3, 2004)

Cenote, I also stuck stuff on the Autism thread before you gave me permission... , which was more in answer to their questions, can you read the autism thread while I'm asleep and you're awake, and let me know if there is something really specific I've not answered and I will try to find an answer for you.

On the Autism thread, particularly note the selenium bit... one abstract re mothers and babies...

I'm not sure where you are, but a full mineral profile would be a useful test, from a reliable laboratory. Hair mineral tests are not accurate. Only sweat and blood are.

If you can't do that, and who can afford it more than once anyway, you might have to go by intuition, like I did







.

The agriculture people here have pretty comprehensive soil analyses, and one useful way of finding out what is missing from soils, is to talk to vets or animal breeders. They give their animals mineral licks and special supplements, because unlike people, its considered vital for animals. But for people, it doesn't matter?

Quote:



Daily Mail, March 5, 2001

FRUIT and vegetables are not as good for us as they were 50 years ago according to a scientific study. Modem farming methods mean that the amount of essential minerals In the food we eat has been reduced alarmingly. There is up to 75 per cent less calcium and 93 per cent less copper . In fruit and vegetables, the study says. Runner beans which used to contain a significant amount of sodium - vital for the working of the nerves and muscles - now have almost no traces of it at all.

The levels of other important minerals such as iron, phosphorous, potassium and magnesium have also plummeted. Nutritionist David Thomas said he was 'astonished' by his flndlngs. 'Minerals have been recognised as being very important to our physiology, but the general public has no idea that there has been this dramatic decline in the levels of such elements in our food,' he said. His research allowed that broccoli has 75 per cent less calcium, which is essential for building healthy body and teeth. Carrots have 75 per cent less magnesium, which protects against heart attacks, asthma and kidney stones.

Spinach, famous as a good source of iron, was found to have 60 per C less iron than it did 50 years ago. Mr Thomas said he believed the reduction in the mineral content in food was a result of modern farm methods which use massive amounts of fertiliser on the soil. The fertilisers encourage ph growth, but this Is at the expense of the minerals which are Important for good health. Mr Thomas said: 'We are made up of these substances. If they're deficient then the body cannot cope as well as It would otherwise.'

He based his conclusions on data from The Composition of Foods, a comprehensive study of the content of all major foods dating back to 1940. By comparing figures over a 50-year period he was able to plot certain trends. A similar analysis, comparing data from 1930 and 1980, was published in the British Food Journal in 1997. It compared 20 vegetables and found levels of calcium, iron and other minerals had declined significantly.

Professor Tim Lang, of the renowned Centre for Food Policy at Thames Valley University, said the results revealed an important trend which needed to be exposed. 'These are big percentages,' he said. 'The nature of production is altering what we are eating. Plant breeders have been trying to develop tomatoes and carrots and fruit that look nice, resist disease and can withstand being shipped halfway around the world.
'They have been less concerned about the minerals in the food. 'We are dying prematurely of coronary heart disease and cancer and we are being told to cut down on fat and eat more fruit and vegetables. But at the same time they are changing the content of what we are eating.' Mr Thomas runs a company called Trace Minerals UK, based in Sussex, which distributes a mineral supplement called ConcenTrace.

Professor Lang said that despite his commercial interest, Mr Thomas had carried out a legitimate piece of research.


If you have taken the pill even a relatively short time, you may have a copper/zinc imbalance and a magnesium, B6, folate and EFA deficiency.

Ellen Grant has much to say on miscarriages, but it would be best if you can obtain her book to read that yourself, because its quite complicated, but if mineral deficiency was one thing that contributed to the miscarriage then, then that's even more reason to have a profile done now.

I use a mineral formula based solely on the deficiencies in the soil in this country, since most of what I eat comes from here. I use it every day, and were I to be pregnant now, I would use it, and increase my levels of magnesium, and check the copper/zinc balance.

I would be using Dorothy Hall's and Carol Odell's book simply because its so down to earth and easy to understand. If you want to understand more about minerals, read Paul Bergner's book "The Healing Power of Minerals, special nutrients and Trace elements."

Even organically, its not possible to get what you need in terms of minerals.

When I was pregnant, because I have low blood pressure, which drops further when I'm pregnant I lived on buckwheat pancakes made from eggs from our own hens, unpasteurised cow's milk (this country doesn't and never has done hormones of any kind







: and I know there are places in the US where you can buy non-hormone organic antibiotic free milk. We can also buy cheese made the old Europe way, not Past-yer-ized.... Then I'd add salt and buckwheat flour I'd just ground myself, and make pancakes, like crepe suzettes. Inside I would sometimes put sliced fresh peaches, or whatever was in season, with home-made yoghurt, or clabbered cream







with liquid honey, or maple syrup, until I found snap freeze boysenberry powder, and went on binges of that.

I ate a lot of avocados, becuase my body screamed for them, so listen to what your body screams for.

If you scream for chocolate, particularly dark, and you're not sleeping well, its a B deficiency.

Nausea in pregnancy is often a long term B deficiency, so look carefully at that long before TTC.

crucial, crucial, crucial is Essential Fatty Acids. Use as wide a variety as possible.

In pregnancy if you want vitamin A take only betacarotene, because if you use cod liver oil, it can cause toxicity if you take too much. With betacarotene, your body only converts what you need. The only exception to that is viral infections where you have photosensitivity, then I would be using CLO.

So a pyramid for me would basically stem from what soil deficiencies you have, how much you grow your own ( I do and use three different kinds of rock dust, and huge quantities of compost, dolomite and ash).

Look to your minerals first. Remember you can't absorb minerals if your gut isn't right, so I'd be using home made yoghurt, Kefir, Yakult (becasue that acidophilus is the least destroyed by stomach acid) and even kefir-based cheese.

You can also aculture fruit juices to kefir...

I wouldn't use kombucha though.

Other probiotics would be tradition saur-kraut, or whatever you prefer.

Okay, they will warn you about listeria foods, but if your immune system is healthy I say pox on that advice. For me, I don't eat any fish that is a scavenger type fish. It must have scales, and not be a bottom feeder. For me, that cuts out molluscs, clams, scallops, and crays. It would also cut out roughy or any other deep fish, as these fish have the highest concentration of heavy metals.

That said I'm not a big fish fan. My father was a marine biologist, so as a child my stomach saw more fish etc, than most people would in a lifetime... enough to put anyone off. But as a principle, look at the toxic metal loadings of fish types before thinking about eating fish.

Depending on where you are, try to get wild meat if its from a safe unpolluted area. That will have the best mineral balance, though one of the sites I used to put up about selenium deficiency was an article that has since disappeared off the web, but copied off my hard drive said this:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.bighorn.org/bio.html

Nation & World : Sunday, September 09, 2001

Fighting a battle for little bighorns

By Gary Polakovic
Los Angeles Times
WIND RIVER MOUNTAINS, Wyo. - The baby bighorn sheep stumbled and collapsed on the stony hillside, too sick and wobbly to keep up with its mother. 
Jon Mionczynski, a wildlife researcher who followed the pair, had seen this before. For some reason, lambs born into the largest herd of bighorn sheep in the Rockies were not surviving.

It would be hard to find a wilder, safer sanctuary, or so it seemed. But as scientists teamed up with Mionczynski to unravel the mystery, they learned that there is no such thing as pristine wilderness and no refuge from the Industrial Age.

Mionczynski nicknamed the struggling lamb "Rambo" because of its tenacity and pluck. Each time it fell, it struggled to its feet, even after blinding an eye in a tumble.

One evening, he was close to capturing Rambo for testing, but the lamb and its mother started down the mountain and, out of reach, hunkered down in a fortress of boulders near a crag called Lion Pass.

"I returned at daybreak and saw the ewe still guarding the site," Mionczynski recalled. "She made a low-pitched, throaty bleat ... brrrr ... brrrr. It was like a sheep crying, and it just went right through me."

When he got to the boulders, he saw fresh mountain-lion droppings. "The ewe had a torn ear, blood running down her face and claw marks on the side of her head," he said. "The lamb was gone. That was the end of Rambo."

In a way, the natural order had prevailed: the strong picked off the weak. But something was unnatural, too: what was making lambs so sick within weeks of their birth? Why were ewes leading weak lambs on arduous treks through cougar country to reach mineral licks at the base of the mountain?

The herd, which used to number about 1,250, plummeted by 30 percent in two years during the early 1990s and never recovered. Since then only about two out of every 10 lambs have survived.

In 1998, the Wyoming Department of Game and Fish told Mionczynski to set up a one-man camp at nearly 12,000 feet, track the herd's every move, study every foot of their mountaintop refuge, examine plants they eat and send back blood and tissue samples of dead and dying animals.

The job called for a meticulous observer and a skilled outdoorsman, someone who did not fear grizzly bears or living in a tent in snowstorms and driving winds. For Mionczynski, it was the dream assignment.

"I have the best job in the world," Mionczynski said. "I'm just a peon in this research, but I like to think I am helping these animals."

Now, four years into the project, scientists believe they are close to solving the mystery. What they have discovered suggests that profound environmental changes are beginning to ripple through the food chain and into the bodies of lambs. They are learning that even reclusive bighorn sheep, masters of evasion, can't escape pollution that falls from the sky.

As a result, Mionczynski and others fear, these icons of wild America may be unable to survive in the wild without continual human intervention.

A summer thunderstorm peels off the Winds, a fitting name for the mountain range west of Dubois, briefly spilling rain and hail over town. Tourists pull off of U.S. 287 into the National Bighorn Sheep Interpretive Center, the newest and most ornate facility in this two-lane town. It's located past the Ramshorn Inn Tavern, not far from the high school where the Rams play, a couple blocks from the Ramshorn Food Farm on Ramshorn Street.

"This town loves these sheep and we're proud of them," said museum Director June Sampson. "In the winter, people can see them with spotting scopes from their living rooms. Hundreds of people come from all over to see the sheep."

Rocky Mountain bighorns have thrived in these mountains southeast of Grand Teton National Park for centuries. They are stocky and barrel-chested with petite feet that stick to rocks like suction cups. In the fall, rams charge one another and smash heads at speeds of 20 mph in battles that sometimes last all day and all night. Shoshone and Gros Ventre Indian tribes made powerful bows from the horns, which are still prized by hunters as trophies.

The herd inhabits the northern Winds in scattered bands. When they all converge on the sagebrush hills at the edge of town during winter, they constitute the largest group of wild sheep in North America. They once were so abundant that they were transplanted to establish new populations from South Dakota to New Mexico to Idaho.

Yet there are fewer and fewer sheep for tourists to enjoy. Barely 800 animals remain in the herd, which is still in decline.

No sooner had Mionczynski set up camp on Middle Mountain in June 1998 than he saw many lambs as feeble as Rambo. Born healthy, they grew sick shortly after ewes made their annual spring migration to Middle Mountain to forage. If pneumonia didn't kill them, predators did.

"Some were crawling on their knees. They were so sick they couldn't even get up to nurse. Their muscles just seemed so stiff and they had trouble breathing. They stuck their noses in the air, mouths open, gasping for air," Mionczynski said.

Ranchers in the lowlands reported that the ewes ate dirt at washed-out mineral licks. It helped explain why ewes were leading their sick lambs down the steep mountain to sagebrush flats that they normally visited only in winter. Something essential was missing from their diet. The route traversed some of the roughest country in the Winds, including a series of cougar ambush spots in Lion Pass.

Eventually, Mionczynski observed that lambs who nursed from the ewes that made the journey to lowland mineral licks did much better.

The challenge was to find the missing ingredient in the mountain forage.

Working in a makeshift lab fitted into a cave in the boulders, Mionczynski began testing plants the sheep eat. He discovered that the nutrient selenium had dipped to alarmingly low levels.

Selenium is a peculiar, sulfur-like element essential for many mammals. It is a naturally occurring nutrient with a twist. Just a little is needed to ensure bones, muscles and immune systems develop properly, but just a little more can be toxic.

Tests on Middle Mountain showed 5 parts per billion of selenium in forage favored by bighorns - 75 percent lower than the minimum requirement for a healthy immune system, according to veterinarians.

But how could selenium be in short supply? Soils across much of the West are awash in it. In nearby Dubois and other parts of Wyoming, range cattle are sometimes poisoned from ingesting too much of it.

The selenium content in plants fluctuates with weather, rising in dry years and falling in wet. The fluctuations correspond neatly with a 30-year lamb survival trend, with fewer surviving in wet years, scientists say.

At the same time, the chemical content of rainfall was changing. So was the composition of the soil that absorbed it.

For at least a decade, according to scientists, storms have been carrying larger and larger amounts of chemical contaminants and dumping them across the Rockies. Among the chemicals are nitrates and ammonium, which can saturate the environment with nutrients or create acidic conditions similar to those that plague forests in the Northeast and Canada. The phenomenon is known as acid rain.

At the bighorn camp on Middle Mountain, scientists tracking storms and wind currents have traced the sources of pollutants that blow in from hundreds of miles away.

On the one hand, the pollutants fertilize plants and microorganisms. On the other hand, they can saturate soil and water with nutrients, causing toxic algae blooms, harmful acids and changes in soil chemistry.

"We're pushing the first dominoes in the food chain, and there's good evidence it's increasing and probably in response to nitrogen deposition," said Mark Williams, a hydrogeochemist and fellow at the Institute of Arctic and Alpine Research at the University of Colorado at Boulder. "We've reached a threshold and we're at that slippery slope where we are headed toward dead fish and dead trees."

Near Colorado's Rocky Mountain National Park, scientists have begun an experiment to see if pollutants are short-circuiting the selenium cycle and contributing to declines in the bighorn herd at St. Vrain Canyon, said Rob Roy Ramey, chairman of zoology at the Denver Museum of Nature and Science.

"Urbanization and sheep deaths seem to go hand in hand. We know there's a lot of acidification of the front range of the Rockies, and this offers a perfectly reasonable and clear mechanism. It's a hypothesis, but it's very plausible," Ramey said.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So that might be a tall order.

So,

1) Gut flora to absorb

2) minerals, and

3) help the body to utilise and manufacture the maximum amount of B's available.

4) Folic acid is obligatory. Minimum 800mcgs a day.

5) EFAs variety is the key.

6) Buckwheat brings down high blood pressure, and puts up low blood pressure. I couldn't have survived without it. But even if you haven't lbp, it's high in rutic acid, which is a blood cleanser.

7) Listen to your body's messages, and if licorice is what it wants eat it, preferable organic, natural. If seville orange marmalade sprinkled with coconut on sourdough bread is what you want, eat it.

8) Bread. Eat only sourdough if possible. I've posted here before, that sourdough bread is the only bread whereby minerals are bio-available. Yeasted bread is only an option extra on odd ocasions for the feel in the mouth if that's a psychological need.

Anyway, sourdough tastes better IMO







.

9)Butter, milk cheese, unpasteurised if poss.

Only rule. If you body screams for it, no matter what it is, eat it; if your body says "No way" don't bother.

If you are like me, your body may shut off certain foods. Like Cabbage and onions. Not only was the smell uncopeable, they would make me vomit.

When it comes down to it, sometimes the only way to get what you need is a liquid mineral supplement.

I take all my supplements as powder in vegetarian capsules. Dolomite, I buy as powder and put it in capsules I buy myself. My husband just sprinkles it on his food







uke: but my stomach can't tolerate that. all supplements I buy come in non-gelatine capsules.

Be careful with seaweed. Certain types are high in iodine, and the last thing you need is an iodine excess, as that will cause mineral catabolisation. If you eat any granulated seaweed, no more than a pinch a day or half a teaspoon a week.

If I've missed something, yell.


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## Momtezuma Tuatara (Mar 3, 2004)

I never bother with tablets in any form. By and large they come out whole. Ask anyone who works with sewage.

expensive scam tablets, unless they are chewable, and chewed well, but who needs the fillers anyway?


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## MomInFlux (Oct 23, 2003)

Thank you, Cenote, for starting this thread, and THANK YOU, MT for such a lengthy and detailed response.

Can I just say that contemplating pregnancy was much easier when I was more ignorant


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## Mommy To Baby Roni (Mar 21, 2003)

Quote:

I know there are places in the US where you can buy non-hormone organic antibiotic free milk.
Almost every grocery store now carries it and you'll definitely find it if you buy your organics at a "natural foods" grocery. You can even find the antibiotic-free eggs at the regular grocery now, as well as natural ground beef. And speaking of ground beef, have you ever tried ground buffalo. I love it. I think it has more flavor that ground beef and is much lower in fat, besides they are not treated with anything.

Also, there is a great "margarine" I've found at Wild Oats called Canoleo (I think). As I recall, it's made from canola, olive & safflower oils and does not have any hydrogenated or partially hydrogenated oils in it.


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## pumpkinsmama (Aug 20, 2005)

Spinach. It is versatile, high in folic acid and vit c. If you don't like it hot you can chop it up and sprinkle it on almost anything, without changing the flavor of the dish. I make salads with baby spinach leaves, I chop it and hide it in DS's food, and it is a great replacement for almost any recipe that uses lettuce. (and makes good wraps, just spinach leaves, cheese, whole wheat tortilla and flavor food of your choice [I'm not vegatarian so I like cut up skinless chicken breast strips])

An example of a "nutritional value" per serving of spinach (from a commercial bag, organic should be better):

160% vit a
40% vit c
510% vit k
40% folic acid
15% magnesium

*adding the iron 15%,

but here is a spinach link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinach

Poor spinach. The darn vegetable keeps losing iron each century. In one because of a clerical error, in the next bad farming practices.

Quote:

The myth about spinach and its high iron content may have first been propagated by Dr. E. von Wolf in 1870, because a misplaced decimal point in his publication led to a iron-content figure that was ten times too high. In 1937, German chemists reinvestigated this "miracle vegetable" and corrected the mistake. It was described by T.J. Hamblin in British Medical Journal, December 1981.


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## MammaV (Jul 13, 2002)

I'm also preparing my body to conceive. I feel it's important to work intensively on this project for a year before conceiving. A couple of things I'm doing are:
Liver and gallbladder flush once a month for nine months and a parasite cleanse - duration of 3 months. I'm also working to strengthen my kidneys. Pregnancy is hard on the kidneys and puts them in a weakened state. All this in addition to a good organic mostly raw diet. Nutrition is always important. Eat homemade fermented foods, much raw and all organic. Make sure DH/DP gets into the swing of things too. You don't need bad sperm! If you want to make sure you're as clear as can be from toxic metals/minerals, eat cilantro, cod liver oil and the 3 minute soft boiled egg. The egg is perfect for pulling the metals out of the body and will not drop them as will chemicalized chelators. Elimate stress as much as you can. Stress kills. Heal through the loss of your baby. EFT is a great modality for eliminating the negative emotions and blockages from that kind of loss.
I utilize my natural healer as my mentor for how to prepare and for accountability in staying the course.
I do many other things in normal everyday life that I will not expand upon, too boring.


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

:

What kind of detoxs can you do if you are still breastfeeding?

Where do you go to get a mineral test done?

Sorry...... great thread


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

The true nutritional and immune powerhouse is organic grass fed raw milk:
http://www.drrons.com/benefits-raw-milk.htm
http://www.drrons.com/raw-milk-veritas.htm
www.realmilk.org

Fat is good for your brain and immune system and that of your baby. The healthiness of a lowfat diet is a dangerous myth.
http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/index.html

And the best fat of all: The X Factor in grass fed milk, cheese, cream and butter. Egg yolks from pastured hens. Shellfish, organ meats, and fish eggs.
http://greenpasture.org/awe_butter_oil.php

Canola oil is not healthy:
http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/conola.html

Vitamin A is also especially important. I disagree with MT's beta carotene suggestions. I thought Vitamin A toxicity was only tested with retinol the synthetic version? Native diets had many many times over the RDA of Vitamin A with excellent disease and cavity prevention.
http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...aminasaga.html

Many people are also low in vitamin D crucial for calcium absorption and many other things:
http://www.mercola.com/2003/dec/24/v...deficiency.htm








Oh dear, why not Kombucha???
I *just* got a scoby in the mail today!!!!
*
RE: Grains, Sourdough and bioavailibity of minerals.*
Whole grains are very hard to digest and impair mineral absorption if not soaked. Sourdough is indeed the best bread because the phytic acids are removed through a very long rising. In the USA, French Meadow makes a great European Rye Sourdough which is in the frozen bread section of many hf stores.

Soaking all grains beforehand will do the same thing for any grain:
http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/be_kind.html

And on a related note:
I've also been reading about supplementing ascorbic acid/sodium ascorbate only will cause a deficiency in bioflavanoids. Acerola powder is recommended at a lower amount than aa/sa b/c it's more bioavailable. MT, what do you think?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Just to reiterate... eating whole grains which are not soaked beforehand, will cause mineral *deficiences*. So not only is the SAD, Standard American Diet, low in minerals, it's about to be worse since we are getting bombarded with "Now made with whole grains!" in large letters on every brightly colored box









In a nutshell, why the current lowfat, tons of whole grains, nutritional propaganda is wrong:
http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...nutrition.html

Great article on minerals too:
http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...ralprimer.html

Make some bone broths for minerals:
http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/broth.html

Nourishing Traditions diet recs for pg/bf'ing
http://www.westonaprice.org/children...ormothers.html


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

And why I'm such a WAP/NT fan...

Reading this page, and his book "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" changed my life:

http://www.westonaprice.org/traditio...ry_wisdom.html

(_apologies to those who know me, I really *must* post it every month_







)


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Victoria,

I've heard warnings against cilantro as a chelator. Do not use a lot of it for medicinal purposes if you have amalgam fillings b/c it may chelate more mercury out of them instead of your body.

Also since cilantro is reported to chelate, but we don't know exactly how it does so or the therapeutic dosage, the risk is mobilizing a large amount of mercury or other heavy metals at once. This overwhelms the body's detox pathways and ends up putting the freed but not excreted metals right back into the organs with more going into the brain than before.

With a chelator, this potential of overwhelming the detox pathways can occur if the dosage is too high and only large doses are given far apart (once a day, or by iv or challenge test). A constant small dose of chelator in the body every few hours avoids this (prevents peaks and valleys of chelator in bloodstream).

Ditto chlorella.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngelBee*
What kind of detoxs can you do if you are still breastfeeding?

Superior nutrition. Psyllium to absorb toxins in gut might be helpful. Actually moving the bowels more frequently like 2-3/day will help. Plenty of water for same reason.

Coconut oil is excellent for immune system and increases the beneficial fatty acids in your milk. I like Tropical Traditions or Wilderness Family Naturals both extra virgin.

You really don't want your body to mobilize anything.


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## AngelaB (Nov 20, 2001)

What about flax oil supplements instead of fish oil or cod liver oil? What do you all think of that?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Cod liver oil is vastly superior not only for the levels of DHA/EPA but also vitamin A and vitamin D
http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...dliveroil.html

I have heard that it is much better absorbed than flax not sure if that is the article talks about it, but that article is an excellent one, do read it, it will have you *running* to the store tomorrow









I've heard a warning about fish oils but not sure exactly why.


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## AngelaB (Nov 20, 2001)

I only question it because of the risk of vitamin a overdose. I guess i just need to know an amount to supplement during pregnancy. The other thing is the fishy burps!! I hate fish and really hate it during pregnancy. I supplement ds with cod liver oil and It makes me gag to smell it on his breath or on my hands if it drips on me, its even peach flavored and I cant stand it!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:

Under optimal conditions, humans can indeed convert carotenes to vitamin A. This occurs in the upper intestinal tract by the action of bile salts and fat-splitting enzymes. Of the entire family of carotenes, beta-carotene is most easily converted to vitamin A. Early studies indicated an equivalency of 4:1 of beta-carotene to retinol. In other words, four units of beta-carotene were needed to produce one unit of vitamin A. This ratio was later revised to 6:1 and recent research suggests an even higher ratio.5 This means that you have to eat an awful lot of vegetables and fruits to obtain even the daily minimal requirements of vitamin A, assuming optimal conversion...

Even worse than vitamin-A vagary is vitamin-A knavery in the form of concerns that vitamin A may be toxic in more than the minuscule RDA-recommended amounts. In fact, so great is the propaganda against the vitamin that obstetricians and pediatricians are now warning patients to avoid foods containing vitamin A!

Recently an "expert" panel recommended lowering the RDA (recommended daily allowance) for vitamin A from 5000 IU daily to about 2500 IU and has set an upper limit of about 10,000 IUs for women. The panel was headed by Dr. Robert Russell of Tufts University, who warned that intake over the "upper limit" may cause irreversible liver damage and birth defects-a ridiculous statement in view of the fact that just a few decades ago pregnant women were routinely advised to take cod liver oil daily and eat liver several times per week. One tablespoon of cod liver oil contains at least 15,000 IU and one serving of liver can contain up to 40,000 IU vitamin A. Russell epitomizes the establishment view when he insists that vitamin-A requirements can be met with one-half cup of carrots daily.

The anti-vitamin-A campaign began in 1995 with the publication of a Boston University School of Medicine study published in the New England Journal of Medicine.15 "Teratogenicity of High Vitamin A Intake," by Kenneth J. Rothman and his colleagues, correlates vitamin-A consumption among more than 22,000 pregnant women with birth defects occurring in subsequent offspring. The study received extensive press coverage in the same publications that had earlier extolled the benefits of vitamin A. "Study Links Excess Vitamin A and Birth Defects" by Jane Brody appeared on the front page of the New York Times on October 7, 1995; on November 24, 1995, the Washington Times reported: "High doses of vitamin A linked to babies' brain defects."

When a single study receives front-page coverage, it's important to take a closer look, especially as earlier research discovered the importance of vitamin A in preventing birth defects. In fact, the defects listed as increasing with increased vitamin A dosage-cleft lip, cleft palate, hydrocephalus and major heart malformations-are also defects of vitamin A deficiency.

In the study, researchers asked over 22,000 women to respond to questionnaires about their eating habits and supplement intake before and during pregnancy. Their responses were used to determine vitamin-A status. As reported in the newspapers, researchers found that cranial-neural-crest defects increased with increased dosages of vitamin A; what the papers did not report was the fact that neural tube defects decreased with increased vitamin A consumption, and that no trend was apparent with musculoskeletal, urogenital or other defects. The trend was much less pronounced, and less statistically significant, when cranial-neural-crest defects were correlated with vitamin-A consumption from food alone.

The study is compromised by a number of flaws. Vitamin-A status was assessed by the inaccurate method of recall and questionnaires; and no blood tests were taken to determine the actual usable vitamin-A status of the mothers. Researchers did not weight birth defects according to severity; thus we do not know whether the defects of babies born to mothers taking high doses of vitamin A were serious or minor compared to those of mothers taking lower amounts.

The most serious flaw was that researchers failed to distinguish between manufactured vitamin A in the form of retinol, found in supplements and added to fabricated foods, from natural vitamin-A complex, present with numerous co-factors, from vitamin-A-containing foods. It is well known that synthetic vitamins are less biologically active, hence less effective, than naturally occurring vitamins. This is especially true of the fat-soluble vitamins like vitamin A, because these tend to be more complex molecules, with numerous double bonds and a multiplicity of forms. Natural vitamin A occurs as a mixture of various isomers, aldehydes, esters, acids and alcohols. Pure retinoic acid, a metabolite of vitamin A used to treat adult acne, is well known to cause birth defects. Apparently pure retinol has teratogenic properties in high amounts as well.

Researchers found that cranial-neural-crest defects increased in proportion to the amount of retinol from supplements consumed during the first trimester of pregnancy (although the total number of defects remained stable up to 15,000 IU daily). Research into vitamin A has indicated that many factors interfere with its absorption and utilization. Inadequate fat in the diet, poor production of bile salts, low enzyme status, and compromised liver function can all interfere with the uptake and usage of vitamin A, especially when given as a supplement in the form of retinol, rather than as a component of whole foods. It may be that the teratogenic effects of commercial vitamin-A preparations are exacerbated in women whose dietary practices and general health status are poor. Some researchers believe that synthetic vitamin A interferes with the proper utilization of natural vitamin A from foods.

Pure retinol is added to many fabricated foods like margarine, breakfast cereals and pizza. The study made no distinction between those women whose vitamin A was supplied by whole animal foods and those who ingested retinol added to margarine, white flour and extruded breakfast cereals-foods which contain many other factors that can cause birth defects. Natural vitamin A provided by liver, eggs, butter, cream and cod liver oil is well recognized as providing excellent protection against birth defects.

Distinctions between synthetic and natural vitamin A have been absent in the extensive media coverage of this study-on the contrary, the newspaper reports contain implied warnings against pregnant women eating liver, dairy products, meat and eggs, but none against eating fabricated foods like margarine and breakfast cereals to which synthetic vitamin A is added. And there has been no media coverage for subsequent studies, which found that high levels of vitamin A did not increase the risk of birth defects. A study carried out in Rome, Italy found no congenital malformations among 120 infants exposed to more than 50,000 IU of vitamin A per day.16 A study from Switzerland looked at blood levels of vitamin A in pregnant women and found that a dose of 30,000 IU per day resulted in blood levels that had no association with birth defects.17
The cod liver oil link addresses a bit of this. Please read the above vitamin A link I posted that I took the above quotes from.

Maybe MT will chime in about this as well.

This information describes how there is NO RISK for natural vitamin A supplementation at all, and that the studies showing problems were done on synthetic vitamin A which is an *entirely* different animal.

I think the myth that natural vitamin A is toxic has done huge damage to the health of mothers and children. For example studies were done on rats showing lack of vitamin A causes extremely long labors and inability to push their babies out.

As someone who had a 40 hr. labor (and thankfully pushed all 9lbs 13oz of this baby out) and was told NOT to take cod liver oil during pg by my OB b/c of supposed toxicity, I'm pretty p.o.'d about that.

Again, native diets contained something like 30-40 times more vitamin A than the standard diet in the 1930's when Weston Price did his work (so probably even greater disparity now) and were much healthier for it.


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## AngelaB (Nov 20, 2001)

I had 40 hours of labor and pushed out a 10 pound 2 oz babe over 2 hours!!! I didnt take cod liver oil because of the supposed toxcicity as well. I read that article you posted and i think I will give it a try! I give it to ds and it seems to be helping.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Re: fish burps








my neighbor who is due in 2 weeks has this problem too. She is taking pills and if that is the case I'd recommend Carlson's pills for extra A. And also D in winter. It is the natural oil and not synthetic versions.

When do you take the oil? Try different times, at the beginning, middle or right at the end of a meal. In juice or a smoothie can't taste it at all.

And anyone starting CLO should go slow, like 1/4 tsp. at first to get used to it and work up to the dosage you want.

The peach flavored Nordic Naturals really doesn't have that much A or D at all. We do Carlson's or the Blue Ice high vitamin.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngelaB*
I had 40 hours of labor and pushed out a 10 pound 2 oz babe over 2 hours!!! I didnt take cod liver oil because of the supposed toxcicity as well. I read that article you posted and i think I will give it a try! I give it to ds and it seems to be helping.

Yep it took me 2 hours to push DS out too! But that was the best part of labor, the pushing, so don't wanna even know the rest of it.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

RE: Angela, CLO helping your son

Yes it's excellent both for the nervous system and gut problems.


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## autumn_faune (Jun 15, 2005)

:

wanting to ttc, also wanting to do the best possible-- I'm transitioning us to WAP/NT also, and adding in CLO etc. Having a terrible time finding a way to exercise with a toddler though







besides chasing her through the house keeping her from killing herself, I mean.


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## Katana (Nov 16, 2002)

Is there any way to figure out if it's okay to take CLO during pregnancy or not? Or if you should?

My maternal family is from Scandinavia so fish and fish products are like drinking water. I personally loathe fish, in any form, but can stomach capsules of CLO, and I usually take it between October and April. It keeps me cough/cold free.

I don't take it during pregnancy because it's the first thing to make me upchuck, but I know my great grandmother, grandmother and mother drank their tablesppons at breakfast every day, pregnant or not.

I've also noticed that many EFA capsules contain some amount of Cod Liver Oil (Solaray, Solgar, Country Life, etc).

How would you know if you had too much CLO in you? Or not enough? Is there any way to tell?

Or is this another flax oil issue, and some people say it's okay to take, and others say stay away?

So confusing.


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## hpienkos (Sep 3, 2005)

will someone answer the above quesiton? I like to know more about fish oil during pregnanyc. Right now pregnant and taking carlson's cod liver oil....

thanks


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## Cenote (Dec 14, 2004)

Hello women!!!

WOW! What an incredible amount of info!







I think it's going to take a while to digest it all (so to speak







).

So, now I'm all interested in more info re: CLO during pregnancy.

I'm also interested in spirulina and where and if it fits into any of this. Since my acupuncturist recommended it and my cycles have lengthened by 4 days (they were 24 days - now 28-29 days), I'm hesitant to stop taking it.

I do get nonhomogenized, organic milk and eggs from a very good dairy. I'm going to be contacting them to see about the minerals they give their cows - they're a local dairy. And the meat and poultry I purchase are all organic as well. I'm sure I can contact the farms and find out from them as well. And in my city, we have an organization called SLUG (San Francisco League of Urban Gardeners) who might have the information about soil quality around here. What I'm not sure about is what to do then.

MT, you talk about customizing your minerals to the specifics of the soil depletion in your area. How would I go about doing the same thing? Where would I get the minerals? I feel so out of my league here and that I'm just dipping my toe in the proverbial pond.

Again, you women have surpassed even my high expectations - so much information and generosity!!!























Thanks so much - and I'm sure I'll be back for more info! Hopefully one day, I'll be able to contribute as well.

Peace,









Michelle


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## Mommy To Baby Roni (Mar 21, 2003)

According to the book The Natural Pregnancy Book by Aviva Jill Romm, spirulina is perfectly fine to take during pg.

Regarding fish/flax oils, I have a book that discusses the best sources for the omega oils, but I just loaned it to my doula last night. All I can tell you is that the Nordic Naturals Omega 3-6-9 has the right amounts and the right sources the book recommended for pg. It's the book I mentioned in my first post.


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## MammaV (Jul 13, 2002)

JaneS,
Thanks for the concern on the cilantro. I have no amalgam fillings and have used NDF Plus to do a toxic metal/minerals cleanse two years ago. I feel confident that I'm pretty free of the pesty buggers. I consume cilantro in salads and as a soup topper quite often. It's a staple in the hispanic diet, which I grew up with to a large extent. I also use CLO, but the VE Irons brand. It's very high quality, tastes horrible. I hate it, but chase it with some fresh squeezed pink grapefruit juice. We also do raw goat milk and sometimes raw cows milk. I like the goat milk better, but impossible to get in the MN winters.
For my last pregnancy, I used a supplement called 5W towards the end of my pregnancy in addition to red raspberry leaf tea, nettle tea and red clover tea as well as lots of fresh veggie juices. My entire labor was 2 1/2 hours. By the time I was sure I was in labor an hour had passed and I pushed for maybe 10 minutes. DS born at home in the dark in the water. I feel that good nutrition and my herbal support really helped make labor efficient. DS had a compound presentation and I think in other circumstances would have been hard to push out...
I love this thread for the wonderful info for all.
One more thing, I feel it's good to take a year to prepare the body before ttc, that's where I'm at in the process.


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## MammaV (Jul 13, 2002)

On exercise with a toddler
It sure can be impossible. I try during nap time. DS just turned 1 and I can't do anything around him because he likes to jump on me, crawl all over me, pull my exercise pants down in his attempts to crawl up my legs. If I try push ups, he crawls under "the bridge", so I try to do something for 30-45 min. My older daughter tries to copy me and she loves to exercise.
I did a baby/momma yoga video for a while, but once the baby starts crawling, that get's harder. Hope you find something that works.


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## MammaV (Jul 13, 2002)

One more thing. I really like Susun's Weed's book "Wise Woman Herbal for the Childbearing Year". I recommend it to anyone who is considering getting pregnant.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Katana*
Is there any way to figure out if it's okay to take CLO during pregnancy or not? Or if you should?

My maternal family is from Scandinavia so fish and fish products are like drinking water. I personally loathe fish, in any form, but can stomach capsules of CLO, and I usually take it between October and April. It keeps me cough/cold free.

I don't take it during pregnancy because it's the first thing to make me upchuck, but I know my great grandmother, grandmother and mother drank their tablesppons at breakfast every day, pregnant or not.


Read the above links I posted on Vitamin A and cod liver oil.

I would say your own family shows that it is indeed healthy and good for you!


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## Katana (Nov 16, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by_ *JaneS*
Read the above links I posted on Vitamin A and cod liver oil.

I would say your own family shows that it is indeed healthy and good for you!
I did read the links, there wasn't too much about CLO, except for in the "Getting It Wrong" part, where there were some quotes that CLO was obselete, because of the other forms of vitamin A we could get.

I know that in many prenatal vitamins, the vitamin A used is beta carotene, and I've also heard that by eating leafy vegetables, yellow fruits and vegetables and other things with vitamin A, that's enough vitamin A.

I have no doubt CLO is wonderful, I've seen it work for years. I just am still not sure it's needed consistently throughout pregnancy, especially if it makes one vomit. Or, if you're getting adequate vitamin A from other sources.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Katana*
I did read the links, there wasn't too much about CLO, except for in the "Getting It Wrong" part, where there were some quotes that CLO was obselete, because of the other forms of vitamin A we could get.

I know that in many prenatal vitamins, the vitamin A used is beta carotene, and I've also heard that by eating leafy vegetables, yellow fruits and vegetables and other things with vitamin A, that's enough vitamin A.

I have no doubt CLO is wonderful, I've seen it work for years. I just am still not sure it's needed consistently throughout pregnancy, especially if it makes one vomit. Or, if you're getting adequate vitamin A from other sources.

I think you missed these:

Cod Liver Oil: Nature's Superfood
http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...dliveroil.html

Vitamin A Saga
http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...aminasaga.html

Vitamin A is only in animal foods, not in vegetables,that is beta carotene. Not all of beta cartene is converted to A... depends on the strength of your digestive system too. See my quote above.

The question is what is enough vitamin A. It's not the RDA for sure. Price's research showed that the diets of native populations who were disease resistant, cavity free, excellent bone structure and extremely fertile with easy births, contained something like 30 times the amount of vitamin A of modern diets (and probably more of a discrepancy now than in the 1930s).

The RDAs for other nutrients we know are a joke: Vit C for example.

Studies in rats showed longer gestations and longer more difficult labors with vitamin A deficiency. Eyesight, cleft palate and deafness have been correlated as well.

Reading the chapter "Prenatal Nutritional Deficiencies" in Price's book is a eye opener. Now THAT should be what is taught in birthing classes, can you imagine.









Price also talks about nutrient deficiencies in the father passing along to offspring despite the mother's nutrition


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## Momtezuma Tuatara (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Vitamin A is also especially important. I disagree with MT's beta carotene suggestions. I thought Vitamin A toxicity was only tested with retinol the synthetic version? Native diets had many many times over the RDA of Vitamin A with excellent disease and cavity prevention.
http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...aminasaga.html

This is a tough on. I prefer to err on the side of caution with Vitamin A, but if you want to use CLO, go ahead.

Quote:









Oh dear, why not Kombucha???
I *just* got a scoby in the mail today!!!!
Unless you sour Kombucha right down to a vinegar that is as good as paint stripper, there is still enough free sugar to upset anyone with yeast issues. Also, pregnant women I have known, find that Kombucha can upset their digestion. I've never been able to stomach tea of any sort during pregnancy, and kombucha reacted the same as tea to my friends who couldn't drink tea, as well. We thought it might be like Kefir and have changed in the culturing, but it didn't. So I feel that people should be careful with it.

Quote:

And on a related note:
I've also been reading about supplementing ascorbic acid/sodium ascorbate only will cause a deficiency in bioflavanoids. Acerola powder is recommended at a lower amount than aa/sa b/c it's more bioavailable. MT, what do you think?
I always add bioflavinoid powder with my vitamin C, 1 part bioflavinoids to 5 parts Vitamin C. But you have to leave it to sit for three minutes, because otherwise the bioflavinoids is gritty. I leave it, three minutes, and the only way I know its there is a slight brown tinge in the water.


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## Momtezuma Tuatara (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cenote*
So, now I'm all interested in more info re: CLO during pregnancy.

Cod Liver Oil is a tricky one.

Here is how I see it. I have a largish intake of Vitamin A in a day at the best of times. I probably get between 15,000 - 30,000 IU's a day anyway, one way or another, with fish and othre vitamin A foods.

I'm prepared ON TOP OF MY diet, to take another 15 maybe 30,000 IU's max.

But I'm also very sensitive to it. Once my body has enough, if I take it, within 20 minutes, my energy crashes out, and I cark it for three hours.

If I take it the next day, my body does the same thing.

If I don't take it the next day, I don't crash. So for me, I know where the limit is. Some people haven't quite got to the point where they do.

So I find it hard to advise. If looking at your diet, your vitamin A is pathetic then your starting point is 30,000 IU's a day. Which form you take it in is your choice.

I prefer CLO, because its one step less the body has to do so its absorbed quicker. But in my CMA mode, I advise betacarotene if the person is the sort you might get in my face.

It's just a caution I've developed...

Quote:

MT, you talk about customizing your minerals to the specifics of the soil depletion in your area. How would I go about doing the same thing? Where would I get the minerals? I feel so out of my league here and that I'm just dipping my toe in the proverbial pond.
I'd talk to the horse breeders if you have any, the vets, the dog breeders, the agricultural people. Because farmers place great stock in good animal condition, so they often know far more about it than any other group. Also, organic farmers locally. They watch their plants, and will know, for instance, that if brocolli gets a hollow core in the stem, they don't have enough boron in the soil. Most are conscientious enough to do something about it, so ask around. Someone is bound to know something.


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## Momtezuma Tuatara (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Studies in rats showed longer gestations and longer more difficult labors with vitamin A deficiency. Eyesight, cleft palate and deafness have been correlated as well.

Usually, people who have vitamin A deficiencies have other deficiencies as well, and one of the most common hand in hand with vitamin A is folic acid, which is responsible for the accurate "photocopying" of DNA.

I don't think its quite accurate to pin everything on Vitamin A, in pregnancy. Yes, in infection, because its role is so specific there.

But in pregnancy, there is a whole lot more going on than in infection. Take anaemia for instance. Why do they give pregnant women iron? That is plain stupid. It's far more likely to be folic acid deficiency, inadequate Vitamin C intake, because without vitamin C, you can't absorb iron, and imbalances in other minerals. With pregnant women, the last thing I consider is iron. The first thing I look at is her gut flora, then other minerals, and sources of B vitamins. Usually I don't have to look further.

But in terms of genetic defects (so called) which are really nutritional defects, while vitamin A is an issue, B vitamins and folic acid to me is a much greater issue, as is selenium. Without your enzyme pathways working properly, Vitamin A isn't going to do very much, because you need them going well to make best use of vitamin A.

So its never a single issue. It's always a balance issue. And if you have a perfect diet, but not enough selenium, you're going places with difficulty, because you can't absorb protein properly.

So yes, Vitamin A is important, but the bigger picture is most important.

Quote:

Price also talks about nutrient deficiencies in the father passing along to offspring despite the mother's nutrition








I think that ties with with the epigenetic principle of demethylation of genes, so if that is the case, and the genes are okay, the demethylation can be reversed if the mother's diet is good enough.

I don't view Price as a be all and end all, because I like to think that there is never ever such a thing as an irreversible problem. I'm walking proof. There is only a solution in disguise. If I'm wrong (but I haven't been yet in terms of myself...) I've not usually lost much since most stones I know of will have been looked under.

Everyone is different and the key is to dispassionately analyse what you eat, where it comes from, learn the signs of various mineral and vitamin deficiences, even subclinically, and remember another thing.

Dr Roger Williams wrote a book many years ago, called "Biochemical Individuality". It's a fascinating read, and everyone has a different "need" for different things. The key is to learn to read your body.

Once you've done that, you won't ask "What is the recommended dose for this?" because you'll know that could range from this, to this, depending on that and the other. So you have to be prepared to think, and no accept any figure as being enshrined in concrete.

There are times when I take enough vitamin C to put you lot on the toilet for 24 hours. But it does squat for me at those times. That's me, not you.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momtezuma Tuatara*
I don't think its quite accurate to pin everything on Vitamin A, in pregnancy. Yes, in infection, because its role is so specific there.

I don't think I said this very well. Animal studies have shown that inadequte A, and that was the only variable in feed that was withheld, leads to cleft palate, deafness and problems with eye development.

But I think your point re: balance is very well taken. I just happen to think that the way natural Vitamin A is currently viewed as being toxic is completely ridiculous. *The research does not back it at all.* It's wrong that many women are now so afraid of Vitamin A. I mean the cod liver oil that I wanted to take during pg was 1500-3000 IU/tsp and my OB just about had a cow.









Instead the current solution in the states is bioengineered (and patentable!) omega 3's from fungus and microalgae. They are now being added to prenatals. The same DHA's in baby formula that is causing explosive diarrhea btw.

If women don't eat butter and eggs and liver, because they are politically incorrect foods, and stay away from fish b/c of the mercury issue, they won't get near the 15-30,000IU that you mentioned? (Since beta carotene is even less well absorbed than is thought). And also the butter and eggs and liver won't contain anywhere near the high amount of vitamin A that they could have if the animals have been correctly pasture fed.

Quote:

I don't view Price as a be all and end all, because I like to think that there is never ever such a thing as an irreversible problem. I'm walking proof. There is only a solution in disguise. If I'm wrong (but I haven't been yet in terms of myself...) I've not usually lost much since most stones I know of will have been looked under.
I'm confused about this statement... I agree with you. But how is Price showing that problems are irreversible?

I was attracted to his book and "Nourishing Traditions" because it is a way to conquer the nutritional deficiencies that one has with food and not supplements. One chapter in his book about The X Factor is all about preventing cavities, reversing tooth decay, and enhancing mineral absorption in people with serious problems.

(I posted in Dental about "Curing Cavities with Nutrition" that describes what the X Factor is and how it is the one nutrient that is present in native diets and mostly missing from modern day diets. It's a fat soluble nutrient, similar to A & D and present in butterfat of cows fed green grass (all mammals' milks with proper diet), fish eggs, organ meats and shellfish.)


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## Dolphin (Apr 22, 2004)

Subbing - amazing thread. You ladies never cease to amaze me


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## trini (Sep 20, 2005)

:


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## Momtezuma Tuatara (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I don't think I said this very well. Animal studies have shown that inadequte A, and that was the only variable in feed that was withheld, leads to cleft palate, deafness and problems with eye development.

Perhaps I've got so jaundiced about all studies that I tend to look at everything with a salt bag in my left hand. The first automatic question I ask with any study is "what have they NOT thought about." Just because a study says only one thing is relevant, doesn't make it right. It could be that they didn't look properly at other things, so that's why I take a broader sweep at things...

Quote:

But I think your point re: balance is very well taken. I just happen to think that the way natural Vitamin A is currently viewed as being toxic is completely ridiculous. *The research does not back it at all.* It's wrong that many women are now so afraid of Vitamin A. I mean the cod liver oil that I wanted to take during pg was 1500-3000 IU/tsp and my OB just about had a cow.








The ones we have here, three tiny capsules equals 15,000 IU's, so we're talking different doses.

You've also hit something else on the head:

Quote:

Instead the current solution in the states is bioengineered (and patentable!) omega 3's from fungus and microalgae. They are now being added to prenatals. The same DHA's in baby formula that is causing explosive diarrhea btw.

If women don't eat butter and eggs and liver, because they are politically incorrect foods, and stay away from fish b/c of the mercury issue, they won't get near the 15-30,000IU that you mentioned? (Since beta carotene is even less well absorbed than is thought). And also the butter and eggs and liver won't contain anywhere near the high amount of vitamin A that they could have if the animals have been correctly pasture fed.
The PC brigade. I can't believe how many mothers out there think that a good diet consists of chips, coca-cola, white bread and margarine.

When people use their common sense and go back to basic, and forget the PC brigade, and look at what worked in the past, perhaps they might get near the 15 - 30,000 Vitamin A baseline.

I also find that the PC brigade aren't changeable, or usually able to listen until their house of cards crashes around them. And I really hate being part of a rear-guard action, IYKWIM.

It feels like such a waste of time when I'm pretty well over the hill in terms of energy.

Quote:

I'm confused about this statement... I agree with you. But how is Price showing that problems are irreversible?
He doesn't. But I feel he infers it...

Quote:

I was attracted to his book and "Nourishing Traditions" because it is a way to conquer the nutritional deficiencies that one has with food and not supplements. One chapter in his book about The X Factor is all about preventing cavities, reversing tooth decay, and enhancing mineral absorption in people with serious problems.

(I posted in Dental about "Curing Cavities with Nutrition" that describes what the X Factor is and how it is the one nutrient that is present in native diets and mostly missing from modern day diets. It's a fat soluble nutrient, similar to A & D and present in butterfat of cows fed green grass (all mammals' milks with proper diet), fish eggs, organ meats and shellfish.)
When we were looking at whether or not to do functional orthodontistry on David (we didn't need to in the end.. the problem resolved as he grew) the orthodontist asked me an interesting question.

It was "Do you eat Butter or Margarine?"

I frowned at him and said "Only an idiot eats margarine."

He smiled and said "if you are not an idiot, you can halve the quote."

I asked "Why?"

He said this. "If you eat butter, the walls of the cells are much stronger, and there is less mineral leaching. Therefore, as we screw the plates open, and open up the jaw sinuses, the new bone deposits faster."

Made sense to me.

But I wondered what he would have said if I'd said Margarine. Perhaps nothing. Money for jam.


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

Thanks ladies for the thread. We are planning to ttc in a few months and am trying to improve my eating here. I have got to find a source for raw dairy!


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## Katana (Nov 16, 2002)

Thanks for the specific CLO link, JaneS, I did miss it somehow, in my first pass.









Quote:

_Originally posted by_ *Momtezuma Tuatara*
Usually, people who have vitamin A deficiencies have other deficiencies as well, and one of the most common hand in hand with vitamin A is folic acid, which is responsible for the accurate "photocopying" of DNA.

I don't think its quite accurate to pin everything on Vitamin A, in pregnancy. Yes, in infection, because its role is so specific there.

But in pregnancy, there is a whole lot more going on than in infection. Take anaemia for instance. Why do they give pregnant women iron? That is plain stupid. It's far more likely to be folic acid deficiency, inadequate Vitamin C intake, because without vitamin C, you can't absorb iron, and imbalances in other minerals. With pregnant women, the last thing I consider is iron. The first thing I look at is her gut flora, then other minerals, and sources of B vitamins. Usually I don't have to look further.

But in terms of genetic defects (so called) which are really nutritional defects, while vitamin A is an issue, B vitamins and folic acid to me is a much greater issue, as is selenium. Without your enzyme pathways working properly, Vitamin A isn't going to do very much, because you need them going well to make best use of vitamin A.

So its never a single issue. It's always a balance issue. And if you have a perfect diet, but not enough selenium, you're going places with difficulty, because you can't absorb protein properly.

So yes, Vitamin A is important, but the bigger picture is most important.
This makes a lot of sense to me, but I do always try to find balance.

And, it made me think of something.

In my three pregnancies, I've been to them all. Mainstream obgyn, not as mainstream obgyn, "alternative" doctor, midwife, etc.

Despite being different on the mechanics of birth, and what a woman can or can't do as far as delivery, they seem to carry the same party line in terms of nutrition.

It's always been, "prenatal vitamins supply you with what you need, it's okay to eat some junk food".

With the junk food being two cups of coffee a day, down to pie, covered in whip cream. And whatever else. "A Cheeto isn't going to kill you!"

When asked if you would ever need to supplement other things, or take certain things, or whatever, it's always, is your iron okay, well then you're fine. Or, you have the healthiest diet of anyone I've ever seen.

It's upsetting, because the people that you can find that know something about minerals, and balance and what foods to eat are not usually your pregnancy and birth care providers.

And when you come to visits armed with questions and even information and answers to your own questions, they pat you on the head and tell you it's hormones.









end of ramble.


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## chlobo (Jan 24, 2004)

Is there a test that can be done to determine if you are deficient in certain vitamins or minerals? Or are there "rules of thumb"? That is, if your hair is dull means xyz?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Katana*
Despite being different on the mechanics of birth, and what a woman can or can't do as far as delivery, they seem to carry the same party line in terms of nutrition.

It's always been, "prenatal vitamins supply you with what you need, it's okay to eat some junk food".

With the junk food being two cups of coffee a day, down to pie, covered in whip cream. And whatever else. "A Cheeto isn't going to kill you!"

When asked if you would ever need to supplement other things, or take certain things, or whatever, it's always, is your iron okay, well then you're fine. Or, you have the healthiest diet of anyone I've ever seen.

It's upsetting, because the people that you can find that know something about minerals, and balance and what foods to eat are not usually your pregnancy and birth care providers.

This is it exactly... health is supposedly in a pill. Well obviously THAT is not working in this society!!

There is such a lack of nutrition knowledge it's scary. If y'all can just stand one more little Weston Price reference... he asked all the native people he studied why they ate the things they did, why they had special diets for mothers AND fathers about to marry, they all said, "So we can make perfect babies."

There is SUCH a disconnect in this society about nutrition and pregnancy. I mean what is talked about the most regarding food and being pg, "What cravings do you have?" And it's sure not liver and raw milk.

Even if you are taking vitamins, coffee and sugar and processed foods leech minerals out of the body and depress the immune system. And a diet of all cooked foods, no fermented or raw foods, drains the cells of body building enzymes.

And of course the good old hydrogenated fats that MT talked about in the margarine post above... *the trans fats become part of your cells*.

And btw, trans fats are excreted into breastmilk if eaten by the mother.









Don't even get me started again on the Kellymom/PC view, "even if you eat only junk food, your breastmilk is perfect" ridiculousness! I was SO happy to see a recent Mothering article dispelling this thought as one of the myths of bf'ing.

Ok how did I start talking about bf'ing in a pg thread?! Rants are contagious and that is a pet one of mine.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama*
Thanks ladies for the thread. We are planning to ttc in a few months and am trying to improve my eating here. I have got to find a source for raw dairy!

sources around the globe: www.realmilk.org


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## Momtezuma Tuatara (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
And of course the good old hydrogenated fats that MT talked about in the margarine post above... *the trans fats become part of your cells*.

Like they know that trans fats provoke asthma, which has been proven and written up, but how many docs even know, let alone have any idea of the mechanism.

Someone mentions tests for vitamins. Many are available, but personally I think they are useless, because every person has unique needs. It's better to go by signs.

There is only one test I have found accurate, and that is the oral zinc test, but if you have enough zinc in you, the results are so unpalatable, that you'd never willingly go back for another, coz its only zinc deficient people who taste nothing. The rest end up tasting vileness reminiscent of paint stripper for about a day urgh....


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Excellent site for info on mercury in fish and recommended safe fish for pg women and children:

http://www.ewg.org/reports/BrainFood/pr.html


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## gardenmommy (Nov 23, 2001)

I have only one other thing to add (as if I could ever improve on this!). Make sure you drink plenty of good quality water. Not the chlorinated flouridated stuff that comes out of most taps. Really good filtered water. There is lots of debate about what that means; we have a good source of reverse osmosis with something else (it's late and I'm tired, forgive my vagueness). We have a well, but living next to so many farms, I won't drink it, as I'm concerned about chemical runoff. Just make sure that what you are drinking and bathing in is clean.


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

Thanks for the fish site (and the milk site too btw). I was surprised to read that they recommended farmed catfish. Catfish is plentiful around here and dh had been planning on taking a fishing trip to stock up the freezer. I guess it would also depend on the river that you catch the fish from as well. I wonder if testing the water is adequate? I am making a trip to St Louis here next week and hope to pick up some wild salmon, if it isn't too darn expensive.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Speaking of fluoride, non organic tea contains it.

Also any bottled soda, rice/nut milk, and juice that is reconstituted with water usually uses fluoridated water.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

The Brewer Diet:
http://www.blueribbonbaby.org/ifyoua...utrition.shtml

Also the salt should be sea salt.
Regular sodium choloride commercial salt is stripped of minerals and is thought to cause hypertension b/c it does not combine correctly with the blood.


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## momto l&a (Jul 31, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Speaking of fluoride, non organic tea contains it.

Being the leaves get the fluoride from air polution even organic tea will have it.

The best way as I understand it to avoid as much as possible is to drink high quality tea made from the smaller leaves. The smaller the leaves the less old they are thus the less time thet have had to collect fluoride.

If a person wants some yummy salt try the Redmond RealSalt. Its all natural sea salt from ancient sea bed, containing 50+ trace minerals







We love the taste of it, kind sweet but salty.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Fluoride's in the air too? I thought it was the water used.
We are definately going the way of the dinosaurs.


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## Katana (Nov 16, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by_ *momto l&a*
If a person wants some yummy salt try the Redmond RealSalt. Its all natural sea salt from ancient sea bed, containing 50+ trace minerals







my We love the taste of it, kind sweet but salty.







my








We love this stuff.

Quote:

_Originally posted by_ *JaneS*
Fluoride's in the air too? I thought it was the water used.
We are definately going the way of the dinosaurs.
My FIL is a dentist. His favorite subject to discuss is flouride. Yes, it is in the water, air, it's everywhere. He thinks a good side benefit to pollution is that the flouride is spread more widely, able to reach more people. He insists this is a good thing. We'd all have brown teeth and brittle bones without it. And most likely, four out of five dentists would agree.









On a fish related note, I've been told that I would like the taste of catfish, properly prepared. Whole Foods sells something called either free range cat fish or wild catfish, but it is so expensive. I have a relative who buys it from them and insists it's worth the price.


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## mama_nomad (Apr 11, 2005)

I've been lurking...I have nothing to add (I am so glad JaneS is here!) but I wanted to reiterate that DAD should be on this diet too!! He's "providing the material" so-to-speak (during conception anyway!)







and it seems silly to spend all this energy on yourself if you are getting "junk sperm"....I know WAP has written about how tribal cultures prepare for conception, both parties eating certain cleansing foods at least 6 months before concieving.

and to whoever mentioned getting exercise with toddler, I would be nowhere with out my super-duper double jogging strolleri don't actually jog with it but I do hoof it up some major hills. (is there a "huff and puff" smilie?)


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Katana*
He thinks a good side benefit to pollution is that the flouride is spread more widely, able to reach more people. He insists this is a good thing. We'd all have brown teeth and brittle bones without it.

OMG that is just so... absurd. Well he's been subject to propaganda too I guess. Give him 'Nutrition and Physical Degeneration' for his birthday and watch his head spin









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Katana*
On a fish related note, I've been told that I would like the taste of catfish, properly prepared. Whole Foods sells something called either free range cat fish or wild catfish, but it is so expensive. I have a relative who buys it from them and insists it's worth the price.

Wild from where though is the question.

EWG specifically says farm raised trout and catfish. I know all Massachusetts fresh waters, even though some have a lot of fish, are toxic and it's not safe to eat any of it. There's a website somewhere that rates your local waters.

Just thinking my mom grew up clamming and crabbing on Cape Cod. Pretty scary how much we've done to the environment in a generation.


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

Hey Jane do you know who has the website who rates the waters?

That is a good point about making sure dh is on the diet as well. This is one of the big reasons I am looking to secure raw milk, dh drinks a boatload of milk.

I did call a lady with a goat farm. She actually said she was going to send me the list of all the goat farmers in MO and northern Arkansas. So, hopefully I am going to find a local source.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

I tried and I just cannot find it! It literally lists all the bodies of water near you and how you shouldn't fish there...


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## Katana (Nov 16, 2002)

JaneS, is this what you were looking for?

It's a fish and seafood advisory that I got by following some links through the Whole Foods website.

You just look up the state, and punch in what you want to know.

http://map1.epa.gov/scripts/.esrimap...Cmd=StContacts

I'm not sure there's any "perfect" waters, but some seem to be less polluted than others.


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## Katana (Nov 16, 2002)

On another fish note, I asked about the fish they sell at Whole Foods and a lot of them are farm raised.

They have guidelines of how much you should be eating per week/month, you just have to ask.

The big ones to stay away from, especially if pregnant or thinking of becoming pregnant are mackeral, shark, tuna, and most shellfish.

They do have amounts that are "okay" for each of those fish, and the brands that are better than others, if you absolutely must have, say, a tuna sandwich.

Again, just ask.


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## stayathomecristi (Jul 7, 2004)

MamaV--- what's EFT????


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## p1gg1e (Apr 3, 2004)

:


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Yes! that's it Katana thank you.

One interesting thing about farm raised fish... they do not have the beneficial fatty acids that wild fish do. Because they are feed grains, soy and such, not their natural diet.

http://www.mercola.com/2003/may/10/farmed_salmon.htm

Another example of how not eating one's natural diet changes the body!


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## Mommymama (Aug 23, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momtezuma Tuatara*
When we were looking at whether or not to do functional orthodontistry on David (we didn't need to in the end.. the problem resolved as he grew) the orthodontist asked me an interesting question.


MT, my dentist is also considering functional jaw orthodontics and craniosacral theraphy for my 5 1/2 dd who needs an extra 4mm space for her (big) permanent teeth. Were you able to correct your son's problem with diet alone?


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## Mommymama (Aug 23, 2002)

Some thoughts on dark chocolate - even the best organic dark chocolates have soy lecithin as an ingredient and that troubles me. However, chocolate is a rich source of magnesium. Most of the time I have Dagoba made with non-GMO soy lecithin.

Published on Sunday, January 8, 2006 by the lndependent/UK
GM: New Study Shows Unborn Babies Could Be Harmed
Mortality rate for new-born rats six times higher when mother was fed on a diet
of modified soya
by Geoffrey Lean

Women who eat GM foods while pregnant risk endangering their unborn babies,
startling new research suggests.

The World Trade Organization is expected next month to support a bid by the
Bush administration to force European countries to accept GM foods.

The study - carried out by a leading scientist at the Russian Academy of
Sciences - found that more than half of the offspring of rats fed on modified
soya died in the first three weeks of life, six times as many as those born to
mothers with normal diets. Six times as many were also severely underweight.

The research - which is being prepared for publication - is just one of a
clutch of recent studies that are reviving fears that GM food damages human
health. Italian research has found that modified soya affected the liver and
pancreas of mice. Australia had to abandon a decade-long attempt to develop
modified peas when an official study found they caused lung damage.

And last May this newspaper revealed a secret report by the biotech giant
Monsanto, which showed that rats fed a diet rich in GM corn had smaller kidneys
and higher blood cell counts, suggesting possible damage to their immune
systems, than those that ate a similar conventional one.

The United Nation's Food and Agriculture Organization held a workshop on the
safety of genetically modified foods at its Rome headquarters late last
year. The workshop was addressed by scientists whose research had raised
concerns about health dangers. But the World Trade Organization is expected
next month to support a bid by the Bush administration to force European
countries to accept GM foods.

Remainder at:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0108-01.htm


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## lavanda (Jan 11, 2006)

what do you think about brewers yeast as a source of folic acid?
i read it somewhere some great things about it but what do you think?
i am little scared because of candida/yeast thing.


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## chlobo (Jan 24, 2004)

The Bush Administration is truly the evil empire.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*Fatty Acid Requirements for Women*

http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyour...atty_acid.html

Quote:

Recent research demonstrates that the quality of a woman's EFA status is critical for her successful reproduction and lactation...

During pregnancy, elongated EFAs play important biochemical and structural roles. They are precursors to the prostaglandins important for maintaining pregnancy and they serve as important structural elements in the cell membranes of both mother and fetus.4 Some researchers report that both the omega-6 and the omega-3 elongated EFAs decrease significantly during pregnancy and that pregnant women have difficulty coping with the high demand, especially for DHA, the elongated omega-3. One such study of Korean women showed that pregnancy reduces both omega-6 arachidonic acid and omega-3 docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) in plasma triglycerides.5 Other researchers6 reported that serum levels of elongated omega-3s did not decrease during pregnancy but became lower afterwards. All the researchers, however, were in agreement that the EFA status following pregnancy was definitely compromised, and also was very slow to recover unless extra DHA supplementation was given...

The same critical requirements for EFAs are seen during lactation as during pregnancy. Elongated omega-3 fatty acids are necessary for optimal development of the infant's visual and nervous systems, and avoidance of the trans fatty acids by the lactating mother is known to be equally important in preventing decreased visual acuity in her infant...

Vegetarian women do not usually have adequate sources of elongated omega-3 EFAs since their diets do not contain fish. When there are high intakes of omega-6 fatty acids from vegetable oils and inadequate intake of saturates, as is typical in vegetarian diets, there is decreased conversion of plant omega-3 to the elongated EFAs. Lower levels of DHA have been reported in infants born to vegetarian mothers.8
Very interesting article, but I would caution against the use of the modern oils canola and soybean.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo*
The Bush Administration is truly the evil empire.









but is this the correct thread for this?


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## Mommymama (Aug 23, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*







but is this the correct thread for this?









Jane,

My intention in posting the article was just to tell the mamas who crave for chocolate during pregnancy and lactation that I believe Dagoba dark chocolates may be a better option for them. It uses GMO-free soy lecithin and the chocolate is of a very high quality. Most organic chocolates and other processed organic foods use soy lecithin as an emulsifier as well as organic canola and soybean oils instead of expensive organic butter and cream.


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## chlobo (Jan 24, 2004)

Quote:

but is this the correct thread for this?
Sorry, this was in response to the labeling issue. I guess it is the wrong thread. Sorry.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

The importance of probiotics during pregnancy:

Quote:

Bacterial vaginosis, a condition in which lactobacilli are displaced from the vagina by inflammation-causing pathogens,7 has been suggested as a factor that increases risk of preterm labour,8 although there is controversy about this. Daily use of oral gelatin capsules containing dried viable L rhamnosus GR-1 and L reuteri RC-14 has been shown to decrease risk of bacterial vaginosis and maintain normal lactobacilli vaginal flora.9,10 In animal studies, these strains were found to be safe during pregnancy and to enhance the health of mothers and newborns.11 Studies are under way in Toronto, Ont, to test the effects of these strains on bacterial vaginosis in pregnant women at risk of preterm labour.

These lactobacilli might also have a role in preventing vaginal colonization by group B streptococci, organisms that can cause serious illness and even death in newborns. Certain lactobacilli can inhibit growth and adhesion of streptococci in vitro,12,13 but whether they can do this in vivo is untested.

The second promising area of research is use of probiotics to prevent allergic reactions. Studies using L rhamnosus GG and B lactis BB12 have shown that atopic dermatitis, a condition that causes severe skin rashes in up to 15% of babies, can be prevented in 50% of cases if mothers ingest probiotics during pregnancy and newborns ingest them during the first 6 months of life.14,15 This is believed to be due to a reprogramming of the newborn's immune system or altered proportions of plasma-neutral lipids and alpha-linolenic acid.15
http://www.motherisk.org/updates/index.php?id=740

L rhamnosus GG is Culturelle:
www.culturelle.com available in many drugstores on shelf or you can order at pharmacy.

The only Reuteri I know of in the states is Nature's Way:
http://www.naturesway.com/products%5..._id=-510554367


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mommymama*
Jane,

My intention in posting the article was just to tell the mamas who crave for chocolate during pregnancy and lactation that I believe Dagoba dark chocolates may be a better option for them. It uses GMO-free soy lecithin and the chocolate is of a very high quality. Most organic chocolates and other processed organic foods use soy lecithin as an emulsifier as well as organic canola and soybean oils instead of expensive organic butter and cream.









, no I was talking about the Bush administration comment!


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## AutumnMama (Jan 2, 2004)

*Bump* This is a good thread


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

:


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## Devaskyla (Oct 5, 2003)

I'm finding this thread really interesting. Just one problem. All of these things cost money. We don't have any. After paying the bills, we're lucky to have $300, usually less, for "food" (this is actually all necesseties, not just food) for the month. How can I improve our nutrition/health with such a limited budget. I know we don't eat well, it's hard to afford to. Processed stuff is cheaper, obviously not for nutrients, but on a fill my family so they aren't hungry all the time basis, you get a lot more food buying processed stuff (and don't get me started on how stupid and unfair that is). So, does anyone have some ways that we can eat better/get more of the things we're obviously not getting enough of that won't cost way more money than we have? We're considering ttc again in 6-12 months.


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## MyLittleWonders (Feb 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Devaskyla*
I'm finding this thread really interesting. Just one problem. All of these things cost money. We don't have any. After paying the bills, we're lucky to have $300, usually less, for "food" (this is actually all necesseties, not just food) for the month. How can I improve our nutrition/health with such a limited budget. I know we don't eat well, it's hard to afford to. Processed stuff is cheaper, obviously not for nutrients, but on a fill my family so they aren't hungry all the time basis, you get a lot more food buying processed stuff (and don't get me started on how stupid and unfair that is). So, does anyone have some ways that we can eat better/get more of the things we're obviously not getting enough of that won't cost way more money than we have? We're considering ttc again in 6-12 months.

My first recommendation would be to make a price list the next time you go to the store - how much is each item that you are buying - how much would it be to stock the fridge with fresh veggies (even celery and carrot sticks, some red or green peppers, a couple heads of lettuce), fruits (bananas, apples, pears, oranges - start with the basic ones), 1-2 dozen eggs, a block of cheese and maybe some chicken. Also, what about a big thing of the store-brand oats, a small thing of basalmic vinegar and olive oil for salad dressing ... make a big list (and while you are there maybe just buy what you would normall buy this time), take it home, and see what you can substitute from your normal items for a raw/whole/fresh item. I think once you break it down and change your shopping list (as well as your munchies/meal list), it might be doable ...
You could soak the oats the night before and make oatmeal for breakfast. Buy some raisins or slice bananas on top.
Have a salad for lunch with a piece of fruit, and maybe a slice of toast (if you need to have grains/cereals). Or you could do hardboiled eggs for lunch, or make some scrambled eggs for breakfast one day.
Maybe get the generic brand of Cheerio's or something for kid-friendly snacks), or in the afternoon, serve apple slices and cheese slices.
For dinner, cook some chicken breasts or thighs and fresh veggies.

But definitely make a list - probably two lists would be good for comparrison - the what we currently buy list and the healthier alternative list. You might be surprised what you can start buying in lieu of what you normally get if you stick with raw/fresh produce and minimally processed sides or snacks. HTH


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## chlobo (Jan 24, 2004)

Is kefir considered a probiotic or a prebiotic?


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## MyLittleWonders (Feb 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo*
Is kefir considered a probiotic or a prebiotic?

Probiotic - though totally different than yogurt. Both are very good for you, but store-bought varieties don't give you nearly what you get from home-cultured.


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## chlobo (Jan 24, 2004)

Is there a "prebiotic" that is similar to yogurt? Or is the best way to get it through a supplement?


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## MyLittleWonders (Feb 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo*
Is there a "prebiotic" that is similar to yogurt? Or is the best way to get it through a supplement?

Prebiotic info I think it's the Jarro Dophilus in my fridge that come with FOS - which is basically the prebiotic and probiotic in one.


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## chlobo (Jan 24, 2004)

thanks for the info.


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

:


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)




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## MamaCAS (Jan 6, 2005)

We get our CLO from 4radiantlife.com.
I have cut-n-paste a blurb from the site below which I think useful:

"This pure U.S.P. premium grade cod liver oil is extracted from the world-famous, healthy cod fish from the deep, unpolluted oceans in the north of Norway. Collected from the oil with the heaviest molecular weight that settles to the bottom of the barrel, it has more than twice the nutrients per serving of other cod liver oils. Produced without harmful solvents, deodorants or bleaches; only vitamin E has been added as a preservative. This oil is nitrogen flushed to prevent rancidity and is kept at cool temperatures before shipping to avoid spoilage. Tastes very mild! Regularly tested for mercury, PCBs, and other toxicity, this oil is free of any toxins. "


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## member (Apr 15, 2002)

I wanted to add The Crazy Makers: How the Food Industry Is Destroying Our Brains and Harming Our Children to list of good reads preconception. The author talks a lot about brain development and is very pro-breastfeeding.


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## Nani (Aug 29, 2004)

fabulous thread!
I'm 11 weeks pg now and I've been feeling horrible for the most part, probably cuz I am/was stuck on a "good" cup of cappucino every morning to get me through the day. The funny thing is, my 22 mo dd has eczema and asthma and I do EVERYTHING for her nutritionally, spend all my energy on making good meals for her. Then I have nothing left for me and I end up eating generic foods. Bad me! It's so hard sometimes to take care of a toddler single-handedly and then shop, cook, eat, clean, etc.
I'll try to get better with it now.
Thanks for kick starting my self-care here!

Has anyone every tried Seabuckthorn seed oil??? It's suppsoed to have very good Omega oils (3,6,9).


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## Laurel723 (Jul 24, 2006)

bumping


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## PiePie (Oct 2, 2006)

*Cenote*, Sorry about your miscarriage. Sounds like a HORRIBLE experience! I got this book called _Fit to Deliver._ At the back it contains exercise and dietary regimens for pre-conception -- wish I'd known!


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## PiePie (Oct 2, 2006)

SPIRULINA: What's that for?

ACIDOPHOLIS: I have taken this as a remedy for diarrhea. At the moment (early pregnancy) constipation is a bigger problem for me, for which I am taking psyllium. Should I take acidopholus in addition, and if so, what's it supposed to do?


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## PiePie (Oct 2, 2006)

SELENIUM: what's that for?


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## newmom80 (Jun 15, 2006)

Thanks to you all of you who have so thoughtfully contributed to this thread! What a fun read! I'm currently working on my pre-pregnancy nutrition so this is all very helpful.

As for the person who was asking about how to afford eating healthy, I just wanted to say that I have been there! It can seem impossible and scary. We all think that Walmart is the only way to survive on a budget, and I got into the trap of going there for all my groceries when we were saving up to buy a house. If you get a chance, you should check out the book The United States of Wal-Mart by John Dicker. Once you really understand how stores like this operate, you will realize that they are not the place to save money. They do a lot of underhanded things that trick you into putting unplanned items that you suddenly think you've got to have into your cart. The environment is those stores is so stressful (who can get in an out of one of them in less than hour? or without spending at least $100??). Also, they brainwash you with their "low prices always" crap to the point you feel absolutely sure that they have lower prices than anywhere else, when in fact if you shop around, you would find that they often just have a few highly visible products that are really cheap, but many items you put in your cart can be found cheaper elsewhere.

But enough about them... I now shop at my local health food store exclusively. A lot of people will ask how can anyone afford to shop there. But the crazy thing is, if you buy out of there bulk bins, you can buy healthy, organic foods cheaper than unhealthy generics at other stores. Dried beans and grains (like barley, rice, whole grain flours, etc) are so incredibly cheap, and all you have to do is go home and add some water to get a nice meal started. I'm not a vegetarian, but I when I eat meat, I like it to be really healthy, so I might buy just one whole chicken a week for like $12/5lb., but from that I can make 1 gallon of organic chicken broth that I then freeze for soup (a gallon of organic broth is way more than $12 at most stores), I cut a few pieces off the chicken before I boil the broth and fry those for a night of fried chicken. Then when the broth is done, I remove all the boiled chicken and use the little pieces in soup, and the big pieces for chicken sandwiches - many meals can come from one chicken. In addition we get protein from dried beans and farm fresh eggs - two cheap protein sources.

Also, I make yogurt at home just using a cheap $15 yogurt maker, I buy organic milk and make yogurt that is cheaper than the gross generic stuff and way healthier. Also, something my husband and I have found is that nutrient rich foods fill you up faster, so you eat less, and the food lasts longer. We use to buy two loaves of cheap bread a week, now I buy one loaf of Ezekiel sprouted bread and keep in the fridge and we eat off of it for weeks. We can only eat one slice at time because it is so filling. Same goes for high quality goats cheese we get from a local source - it's expensive but a little bit adds a ton of flavor - 6 ounces sometimes lasts us 2 or more weeks.

I guess to summarize YOU CAN afford to eat healthier foods on a budget if you can prepare food from scratch at home using bulk items and nutrient dense foods that fill you up fast. (And don't forget the savings you can find on fresh local veggies all summer long at your local farmers market or through a CSA).


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## Nani (Aug 29, 2004)

:







:







:


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## Just_Isabel (Mar 5, 2006)

because this thread has so much great info.


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## Spark (Nov 21, 2001)

I just saw this as Isabel bumped it. I just kind of skimmed (I'm not TTC any time soon!) but I've recently come across some really REALLY wonderful info for mamas who suffered from Morning Sickness or hyperemisis (HG) in other pregnancies or dealing with current liver / gallbladder issues.

The information & success stories look SO good & I'm helping my SIL with current 2nd trimester nausea.

I came women swearing by Milk Thistle for battling M/S It's used 2 months+ before conception & then through the 1st trimester or nausea ends. Here is the program according to Shonda Barker, Naturally Healthy Pregnancy (this is a wonderful book with great info and the author presents it in a very faith based format:

Quote:

If morning sickness was a problem during a previous pregnancy, milk thistle extrat (standarized to contian at least 70% silymarin) is of great benefit to aid the liver's functions. Recommened amount: 280 mg per day. Dandelion is a gentler liver stimulant if a milder liver tonic is desired.
(p23)
The Milk Thistle preconception seems to be the most important time to take it, and then continue during pregnancy. I'll just add that during pregnancy info, since the borrowed book is in front of me right now.

Quote:

I have tried many remedies during my pregnancies - some have worked well, some worked a little, others worked not at all. I had hyperemesis gravidum (vomitting repeatedly, unable to hold anything down) with my eldest child which was medically treated... With my fourth child, I had _no morning sickness whatsoever_...
I have come to believe through my own experience and the experience of others that the root of the problem for many women is inadequate liver support during a period of greater demands on this vital organ. If moms begin preparing their bodies for pregnancy prior to conception they will have a better chance of avoiding morning sickness (as well as other factors).
(lists morning sickness recommendations)
2. I have found milk thistle (standardized to contain at least 70% - 80% silymarin) to be invaluable in preventing morning sickness. I began taking 2 tablets each day two months prior to this pregnancy and increased to 3 tablets daily when our pregnancy was confirmed. Milk thistle is liver supportive and protective. I feel this is why it worked so well to prevent the nausea and vomiting I have had with every other pregnancy. This would be especially helpful for those mom who vommit bile during pregnancy.

(p170-171)
From her website:

Quote:

Morning Sickness
Q.I just wanted to let you know that I am at the beginning of my 7th pregnancy...the 6th one that has gotten a good start....and for the very first time have not experienced the horrible morning sickness and exhaustion that I have with all the others! I believe it is the mercy and blessing of God through the advice that you offer...Entrox, Milk thistle Phytosome and AbsorbAid three times a day with meals along with a good prenatal and calcium. I'm still in total amazement and awe! I only hoped it would really work, but was skeptical until now! I have a friend who tried this as well with her 5th pregnancy with the same astounding results!!! WOW! I can't tell you how grateful I am to be able to be a "normal" mommy to my other children while carrying a new babe!! I had asked many months ago about a different source for the Milk Thistle Phytosome by Natural Factors as well as the Entrox...because I could not obtain those locally. I did find a source for Entrox by NOW that does not have any added Vitamin E. (just an FYI) Also, Enzymatic Therapy makes a Silybin Phytosome that I think is very similar if not the same as the milk thistle phytosome you recommend...and there are a few web sites that sell this brand. I bought mine from Vitamin Shoppe. The NOW Entrox I bought through BetterLife.com. Anyway, just thought I'd let you know so if you have opportunity to pass it along to other moms weary of morning sickness....again, I so appreciate your help! You are an angel! I hope you are thoroughly enjoying your new babe. love, Natalie

A. Natalie, I'm thrilled to hear of other mothers benefiting as I did from these three supplements during early pregnancy "sick" times. May God be praised!


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Is there any safe detox while breastfeeding?


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## Spark (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngelBee* 
Is there any safe detox while breastfeeding?









Yes!

I went to a Naturopath postpardum last year. And, she works with a detoxing process that shoves toxins out using the digestive system. I could not believe the difference it made for me! It helped heal my immune system, before my liver (located just below your right rib) was enlarged and it healed, my energy was so low (but I didn't really notice until it started picking up again!), I had no more headaches.
http://naturopathic.org/

The other thing, if you want to dextox your liver, you can safely detox while breastfeeding using Milk Thistle & Dandelion. You'd do the rec's in my post just above your post. It's more of a gentle way to clean the house.

AngelBee, Mylee is ADORABLE!!!! Soooo tiny! I really recommend a cleanse. It got me out of my funk.


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Spark* 
Yes!

I went to a Naturopath postpardum last year. And, she works with a detoxing process that shoves toxins out using the digestive system. I could not believe the difference it made for me! It helped heal my immune system, before my liver (located just below your right rib) was enlarged and it healed, my energy was so low (but I didn't really notice until it started picking up again!), I had no more headaches.
http://naturopathic.org/

The other thing, if you want to dextox your liver, you can safely detox while breastfeeding using Milk Thistle & Dandelion. You'd do the rec's in my post just above your post. It's more of a gentle way to clean the house.

AngelBee, Mylee is ADORABLE!!!! Soooo tiny! I really recommend a cleanse. It got me out of my funk.









Oooo......good! I have to do something.

Thanks


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## MyLittleWonders (Feb 16, 2004)

Spark - Was what you used a custom blend of something or a specific brand? We can swing a ND right now but would love to hear more.


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## Spark (Nov 21, 2001)

nak

it was all geared to my body & specific toxins.







i wish there was some special code! but, mine was majorly my liver. if you suspect your liver - i'd go the Milk Thistle/ Dandelion route for sure!


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Spark* 
nak

it was all geared to my body & specific toxins.







i wish there was some special code! but, mine was majorly my liver. if you suspect your liver - i'd go the Milk Thistle/ Dandelion route for sure!

How much does a it cost to go through the process?

I have to find someone in MN...







:


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## MammaV (Jul 13, 2002)

A great book for gallbladder/liver detox is by Andreas Moritz called, "the amazing liver and gallbladder flush". It's an inexpensive easy way to cleanse these organs. It's safe during pregnancy and can be done starting at 6 weeks potpartum too.
Other good things for these organs:
Red Clover
Burdock Root
(dandelion and milk thistle have been talked about lots)
warm water with fresh lemon squeezed into it every morning
Black spanish radish
Astragulus
beets
fresh veggie juice that includes beets
fresh apple juice


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MammaV* 
A great book for gallbladder/liver detox is by Andreas Moritz called, "the amazing liver and gallbladder flush". It's an inexpensive easy way to cleanse these organs. It's safe during pregnancy and can be done starting at 6 weeks potpartum too.
Other good things for these organs:
Red Clover
Burdock Root
(dandelion and milk thistle have been talked about lots)
warm water with fresh lemon squeezed into it every morning
Black spanish radish
Astragulus
beets
fresh veggie juice that includes beets
fresh apple juice

I will have to check this out


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## Spark (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngelBee* 
How much does a it cost to go through the process?

It was about $300 and WELL worth it. I was really amazed at the difference.

GREAT book rec! I'm going to check it out!


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## megincl (Sep 10, 2002)

Hi Folks,

We are TTC #2.....DS has some gut issues and sensory issues and I know that what we do (DW will get pregnant) during pregnancy might make a difference.

I'm nervous, though, about CLO. She takes a food-based prenatal that contains, I think, 5,000IU of Vit A. I don't want her to get too much and thus be at risk for anything or put the baby at risk. Should she take a CLO that isn't high-vitamin? Or, if she does take CLO that's high-vit, how much is safe? And how do I KNOW that it's safe? I feel like there are so many contradictions out there.....









Also, she's taking probiotics, but I wonder if it would be useful to supplement them with a kefir, probably water kefir. Is it safe to drink water kefir during pregnancy even though it becomes slightly alcoholic in the fermentation process? I don't think we can find a good (local enough) source for raw milk or raw milk kefir, so water kefir sounds like a good option...unless it's a good idea to make kefir in pasteurized milk instead. Any thoughts on this?

What else should she take, other than the regular prenatals....

thanks!
megin


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Why are you nervous? All the studies showing toxicity are done on chemical forms of A. What form of A is in that prenatal? If it's retinyl palmitate, I'd be much more afraid of taking that.

After reading this article I'd be afraid *not* to take high amount of vitamin A/D:
*
Vitamin A for Fetal Development*
http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyour...n-a-fetal.html

RE: safety
Traditional diets contained on average 10x the amount of modern diets of vitamin A from food sources. I think WAPF recommends 10,000 IU for adults as part of a traditional foods diet (such as pastured dairy and eggs and also liver once a week,) so I would take much more if you are not doing these foods.

What about liver pills too? I would do those. www.drrons.com

I think raw milk is best for nutrient profile but pasteurized would be fine for making kefir.

Make sure you give babe bifidobacterium from birth. No antibx, no HepB at birth at least.


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## megincl (Sep 10, 2002)

Thanks, JaneS, for this. I have to check the form of A in her vitamins. I think that WAP stuff puts me more at ease. I think I just get nervous when there's contradictory info "out there" and I haven't yet figured out what sources to trust. That's merely from being a newbie in this area, as I know there's contradictory info about EVERYTHING, but usually I know where I stand (parenting, vax, breastfeeding, schooling, etc). So, it's just really a matter of me figuring it out.

Can you tell me what the liver pills would help with? A natural source of A? If we did the CLO would you recommend those as well? And if so, can you say a bit about why?

Finally, any good sources for the probiotic for the babe? Dairy/soy/etc free hopefully?

thanks!
megin


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Absolutely to the liver plus CLO. Liver has natural (and thus best absorbable version) of zinc, iron, Price's X Factor, and the vitally important B vitamins in addition to A.

All about bifidobacterium and the infant gut here:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...6&postcount=20

Solaray might not be totally dairy free, it seems there are traces still. I think all B. Infantis will have traces of dairy since that is what original culture came from? You could use Natren Bifido Factor dairy free from chickpea base. Personally I would be confident giving Natren Life Start with dairy to a babe from day one, as the bifido will seal up leaky gut and drive out other bacteria... and that is what leads to the immune system reacting as allergies in the first place. Good gut flora is essential for oral tolerance.


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## hix (Mar 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newmom80* 
I might buy just one whole chicken a week for like $12/5lb., but from that I can make 1 gallon of organic chicken broth that I then freeze for soup (a gallon of organic broth is way more than $12 at most stores), I cut a few pieces off the chicken before I boil the broth and fry those for a night of fried chicken. Then when the broth is done, I remove all the boiled chicken and use the little pieces in soup, and the big pieces for chicken sandwiches - many meals can come from one chicken. In addition we get protein from dried beans and farm fresh eggs - two cheap protein sources.

Also, I make yogurt at home just using a cheap $15 yogurt maker, I buy organic milk and make yogurt that is cheaper than the gross generic stuff and way healthier. Also, something my husband and I have found is that nutrient rich foods fill you up faster, so you eat less, and the food lasts longer.

I guess to summarize YOU CAN afford to eat healthier foods on a budget if you can prepare food from scratch at home using bulk items and nutrient dense foods that fill you up fast. (And don't forget the savings you can find on fresh local veggies all summer long at your local farmers market or through a CSA).


Super ideas and encouragement!


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

I'm already pregnant, but am curious if anyone knows what my body is "asking" for by craving mineral water, the most bitter/strong-tasting available, during both this pregnancy and my last. What should I eat more of? I'm ovo/lacto vegetarian, eat lots of whole grains, nuts, and veggies (not as much of a fruit person).


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## leila1213 (Sep 15, 2006)

Bump!


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## sphinxie (Feb 28, 2006)

lorax, I might guess minerals? maybe check and see if the water you're craving has a profile describing the minerals in it. Otherwise, perhaps bitter foods.


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## BeingMe (Oct 25, 2006)

We are planning on getting pregnant in December, but I'm having surgery this or next month and wondering how I can remove all the junk from the surgery and heal my body better for pregnancy?


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## yogamonkeyjo (Mar 5, 2008)

I am compelled to add another argument for milk thistle-I was so miserable at the beginning of my pg and it changed my world!








I love this thread, but am in need on help on the _how_ part as opposed to the _what/why_. I posted a call for help here, if anyone would like to add great selections along the lines of the discussion in this thread.


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## BeingMe (Oct 25, 2006)

bump


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## Carliegirl (Jul 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
I'm already pregnant, but am curious if anyone knows what my body is "asking" for by craving mineral water, the most bitter/strong-tasting available, during both this pregnancy and my last. What should I eat more of? I'm ovo/lacto vegetarian, eat lots of whole grains, nuts, and veggies (not as much of a fruit person).

I'd say check into antioxidant rich vegetables that are noted for possessing a touch of bitter (the cruciferous ones, some greens like dandelion, bitter melon, cranberries....) And what about "bitters" the liquid digestion tonic? Does anyone know anything about that? I don't but, the thought occurred to me.


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