# Infant circumcision causes over 100 deaths per year



## TCA2008 (Nov 20, 2007)

Not that we need more reasons to just say no to infant circumcision....

Here is a newly published study about yet another harm from circumcision:

http://www.icgi.org/2010/04/infant-c...ch-year-in-us/

Infant circumcision causes 100 deaths each year in US


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## titania8 (Feb 15, 2007)

Crime against humanity.







Glad, if I can stretch the use of that word enough to use it here, to have concrete stats though. Will be sharing.


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## Pirogi (Apr 5, 2007)

Wow! I knew that circ could result in death, but I always thought it was a very VERY rare thing. 117 from circumcision complications, 115 from SIDS, 44 from suffocation, 8 from auto accidents. This blows my mind. Thank you for sharing.

I wonder where are those families? Why aren't they protesting, on the news, writing books, shouting from the rooftops?


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

We need a bumper sticker to this effect, or something:

"*Shouldn't we do all we can to protect our kids from becoming a statistic?

SIDS kills 115 US infants a year. Circumcision kills 117 US infants a year.

Keep them safe.
Keep them whole.
Keep them alive.*"

Yeah.


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## Pirogi (Apr 5, 2007)

I wonder what the incidence of non-lethal complications is? (Other than the obvious 100% of circumcised males have healthy tissue removed. )


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## beckyand3littlemonsters (Sep 16, 2006)

thats so sad all those poor babies dieting needlessly for what is essentially cosmetic surgery
r.i.p poor babies


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## beckyand3littlemonsters (Sep 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pirogi* 
I wonder what the incidence of non-lethal complications is? (Other than the obvious 100% of circumcised males have healthy tissue removed. )

i'd assume quite a lot (not that i'm an expert) because if you think about it , it's an open sore and it's in constant contact with wee and pooh, i've heard of people having cuts on their hands getting infected from coming into contact with these things so i can only imagine what almost constant contact would do


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## nd_deadhead (Sep 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pirogi* 
I wonder where are those families? Why aren't they protesting, on the news, writing books, shouting from the rooftops?

In some cases, I'm guessing they are sworn to silence by their lawyers, as part of a settlement with doctors/hospitals.


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## fruitful womb (Nov 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pirogi* 
Wow! I knew that circ could result in death, but I always thought it was a very VERY rare thing. 117 from circumcision complications, 115 from SIDS, 44 from suffocation, 8 from auto accidents. This blows my mind. Thank you for sharing.

I wonder where are those families? Why aren't they protesting, on the news, writing books, shouting from the rooftops?

The AAP issued a warning about the choking hazards of hotdogs and grapes. Its mortality rate is the same as circumcision. Wheres that warning AAP?

Not one man/child/infant has ever died from having a complete set of male genitals.

You'd think an ELECTIVE procedure that can result in death would be banned by now. ?!


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## jeminijad (Mar 27, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pirogi* 
I wonder where are those families? Why aren't they protesting, on the news, writing books, shouting from the rooftops?

My nephew died at 10 days old from massive sepsis of an "unknown origin." The only wound on his body was his circ.

Now, clearly, there is no guarantee that circumcision is what did it. Certainly the docs denied that there could be any connection! But I feel it is relevant because there likely are a number of similar uncategorized deaths each year that may actually belong in the circumcision column.


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## beckyand3littlemonsters (Sep 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fruitful womb* 
The AAP issued a warning about the choking hazards of hotdogs and grapes. Its mortality rate is the same as circumcision. Wheres that warning AAP?

Yes this is something that i always worry about, on the odd occasions my lo's had hot dogs i would chop them up into little pieces so they wouldn't choke and grapes i would chop in half.


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## Crunchy Frog (Aug 24, 2008)

I wonder what the likelyhood is that this will ever make it into the mainstream media. I'm not going to be holding my breath.


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## hollytheteacher (Mar 10, 2007)

Imagine what those poor babies are thinking/feeling for their short short life


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## Norasmomma (Feb 26, 2008)

When I was talking to my mom about not circing our son I told her that 115 boys a year died from the surgery on average, it quickly changed her mind on it being *unclean*.

My DH did have complications as a baby, he was the only child out of 7 who was not allowed to go home with his mom. He had bleeding complications







Luckily he healed, but that was a huge deciding factor with my son, and also I'm just greatly opposed to it.

How sad, completely avoidable deaths of tiny babies.


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## MrsJewelsRae (Aug 19, 2008)

And people judged me as careless and reckless because we co sleep with our babies.














Where is INFORMED CONSENT!!????


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## Greg B (Mar 18, 2006)

Thanks for the link. This is a good reference to have in hand.

Too bad doctors don't point out this very real risk in this context.

Regards


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## luckysgirl (Jan 14, 2010)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TCA2008* 
Here is a newly published study about yet another harm from circumcision:

http://www.icgi.org/2010/04/infant-c...ch-year-in-us/

Infant circumcision causes 100 deaths each year in US











This is absolutely terrifying. We got a lot of grief about not circumcising when DS was born and we're already starting to get some flak from some family members really "hope you're gonna do the normal thing with the new one."

I just ask anyone who brings it up why they're so interested in my child's genitals. They shut up pretty quickly after that.

I used to try to educate my family about the risks evolved and how absolutely unnecessary the procedure is, etc. but quickly realized it was just falling on deaf ears. Still, I think I'm going to send this link to my father. It can't hurt.


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## So-Called (Jun 2, 2005)

I'm glad to see this article, and I completely agree with the idea that even one death from RIC is criminal. I've long suspected that deaths and serious complications are significantly under-reported.

What I'm not understanding is the numbers and how they derived them. Last I checked, SIDS is ruled as the cause of a couple thousand infant deaths each year. Even if you only count the boys who die of SIDS, it stand to reason that there would be 1000+. All the numbers sound absurdly low, frankly.

I wish they had citations for this information, and went into more depth about how it was acquired. I don't see how anyone will take it seriously otherwise.


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## Pirogi (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeminijad* 
My nephew died at 10 days old from massive sepsis of an "unknown origin." The only wound on his body was his circ.

Now, clearly, there is no guarantee that circumcision is what did it. Certainly the docs denied that there could be any connection! But I feel it is relevant because there likely are a number of similar uncategorized deaths each year that may actually belong in the circumcision column.

I'm so sorry. Although it came across that way, I did not intend to blame the parents or family of the dead for our society's continuing circumcision practices. I suspect that you are correct, that parents aren't told and records don't reflect the true reason for death many times. It is just such a shocking statistic, when taken in context of neonatal death rates from other sources. It is just so upsetting that so many babies die needlessley every year in the US, and by extension, that their parents seem to be suffering in silence. I think it could go a long way to change practices, if they began to speak out. It must be a very difficult thing to do, even if there is no monetary settlement requirement, to grieve AND overcome any guilt/shame AND have the courage and initiative to talk about their experiences. Circumcision breaks families, and it breaks my heart.


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## Pirogi (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *So-Called* 
I'm glad to see this article, and I completely agree with the idea that even one death from RIC is criminal. I've long suspected that deaths and serious complications are significantly under-reported.

What I'm not understanding is the numbers and how they derived them. Last I checked, SIDS is ruled as the cause of a couple thousand infant deaths each year. Even if you only count the boys who die of SIDS, it stand to reason that there would be 1000+. All the numbers sound absurdly low, frankly.

I wish they had citations for this information, and went into more depth about how it was acquired. I don't see how anyone will take it seriously otherwise.

The stat on the website was for *neonatal* SIDS deaths, so that they can be accurately compared to neonatal deaths from circumcision. Neonatal is within the first *month* of life. On the other hand, a death can be classifies as a SIDS death if the child dies in the first *year* of life. I agree, I wish I knew how they arrived at the numbers, but this article is like any news article that reports on published research; it gives only a broad overview of the findings. We would have to go to the source and read the actual article in the _Thymos_ to know how they arrived at the statistic.


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## hakunangovi (Feb 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *So-Called* 
What I'm not understanding is the numbers and how they derived them.

I wish they had citations for this information, and went into more depth about how it was acquired. I don't see how anyone will take it seriously otherwise.

This is a very good point. I was perusing www.acroposthion.com last night, and that website stated a number of around 250 deaths per year from circumcision.

Also, if you check out the index in the top left corner and go to the section entitled "the circumcision mafia", they have quite a detailed account of the commercial side of circumcision. I was aware of much of this previously, but the extent and money involved is staggering!! I ,personaly, feel that the ethics involved are very questionable also.


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## Galatea (Jun 28, 2004)

I bet some of the parents don't talk about it b/c that would require them to acknowledge that their unnecessary choice of circumcision caused their son's death. That is a big thing to accept, and it is easier to not discuss it and blame it on other causes in a roundabout way. This also is easier for the doctors, too.


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## lotus.blossom (Mar 1, 2005)

Horrible. It blows my mind why a parent would do a cosmetic procedure on a newborn anyway, but if they had these stats in front of them would they think twice? Anyone know exactly what kind of forms or consent is necessary for a circ?


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## MommytoB (Jan 18, 2006)

The ones who haven't circ'ed or pg with a boy whose on the fence it may more likely push them into the route of researching circ or ending up not circ'ing.

The ones who have already circ'ed they would be still continue to circ their son's because that death rate hadn't happened to them and they could likely have up to 3-5 son's .

So I wonder actually what changes a person way to change tradition after having 4 circ'ed sons then leaving next one's intact .


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## Galatea (Jun 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommytoB* 

So I wonder actually what changes a person way to change tradition after having 4 circ'ed sons then leaving next one's intact .

Intellectual and emotional honesty and courage that is rarely found.


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## fruitful womb (Nov 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lotus.blossom* 
Horrible. It blows my mind why a parent would do a cosmetic procedure on a newborn anyway, but if they had these stats in front of them would they think twice? Anyone know exactly what kind of forms or consent is necessary for a circ?

Cosmetic for sure!

What really baffles me is when a parent is willing to risk death for a cosmetic appearance to which resembles a congenital defect known as aposthia (born with an incomplete penis, the prepuce organ never fully developed).


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## Ron_Low (May 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Anastasiya* 
We need a bumper sticker to this effect, or something: SIDS kills 115 US infants a year. Circumcision kills 117 US infants a year.

That's good, and how about:

1 in 10,000 American circumcisions kills a healthy baby.


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## glongley (Jun 30, 2004)

Although I am a positive that boys die from circumcision, and probably more than more doctors would like to admit, and although I am not a statistician, I think we have to be somewhat careful with the numbers in this study. There may be mistaken assumptions made in the calculations that could alter the ballpark of the estimation. The point is that deaths do happen, and that there has been no serious attempt to gather or promulgate information on the incidence by the CDC or other powers that be in the health care world - all of which parents need to be informed of for valid consent. The other point is that whether its 1/10,000 or 1/1 million, no death is justifiable for a unnecessary cosmetic procedure on a nonconsenting individual. This study may not be the be the final word, but at least it takes an honest look at the issue, and gets the discussion into the scholarly literature.

Gillian


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## serendipity22 (Sep 19, 2006)

Quote:

That's good, and how about:

1 in 10,000 American circumcisions kills a healthy baby.
This figure is not so different than the 1 in 5600 figure that Gairdner found in his UK study in 1948 (or 1949?) which led to the end of funding for circ and a drop in the rate to next to nothing.


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## mama2soren (Feb 12, 2009)

So, the AAP wants everyone to know how dreadfully dangerous chicken pox can be (before routine vax, it killed about 100 a year...), and pushes the vaccination on all little kids. Yet, they consider circumcision, which apparently kills at least as many as chicken pox used to, _beneficial_?







How does anyone have faith in them?


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## fillefantome (May 4, 2007)

I found a copy of the full article from Thymos. (I have a PDF copy--if anyone would like to read it, PM me and I'll pass it along.) It's a pretty interesting read, and definitely an opinion paper recommending systemic policy changes, not merely a report of statistical data. I'm curious about how it has been/will be received in academia (if anyone even takes notice of it)--I'd never heard of the journal, which is printed by a publisher in "men's studies," and I know academia can be very dismissive of research outside of the mainstream journals and disciplinary areas.

As far as the 117 deaths figure, I do think the number is a rough one (due to inaccurate reporting of cause of death), but the full article explains how it was calculated and includes all citations. Someone better at scientific research than me would have to examine the logic, but it makes sense from a layperson's perspective. (And as someone said above, the SIDS rate quoted is for boys in the first month of their lives--the article has the SIDS rate for the first year as well, which is much higher).


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *glongley* 
The other point is that whether its 1/10,000 or 1/1 million, *no death is justifiable for a unnecessary cosmetic procedure on a nonconsenting individual*.

This.


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## knitted_in_the_wom (May 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pirogi* 
I wonder what the incidence of non-lethal complications is? (Other than the obvious 100% of circumcised males have healthy tissue removed. )

I've read that it is as high as 50%.

The problem with most studies on complication rates are that they only look for complications for 48 hrs after the procedure. But one study found that of 8 infections due to circ, only 1 was diagnosed in 48 hrs. I've had 2 friends over the years who had to have surgery on their 2-3 year old sons to correct narrowing of the penile opening--a complication of circumcision--and I actually dated a guy who admitted to having had that surgery as well. I wonder how many guys I've known who *haven't* admitted to having the surgery? Or perhaps don't even know they had it because they don't remember it?


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## nsmomtobe (Aug 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *knitted_in_the_wom* 
I've had 2 friends over the years who had to have surgery on their 2-3 year old sons to correct narrowing of the penile opening--a complication of circumcision--and I actually dated a guy who admitted to having had that surgery as well. I wonder how many guys I've known who *haven't* admitted to having the surgery? Or perhaps don't even know they had it because they don't remember it?

Or perhaps they don't realize it is related to circumcision.


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## Fyrestorm (Feb 14, 2006)

Meatal Stenosis is VERY common. It wasn't until my DH's 3rd surgery that I made his urologist admit that it is totally related to his circumcision. If he was intact, he never would have had this problem.

Doctors don't want to admit that because that means less $$$ for them when these men know the damage was circ related and choose to leave their boys intact. (but then I'm jaded)


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## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

bump


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