# Do you lose respect for



## lilmiss'mama (Mar 8, 2002)

other mothers on this board who support Bush?

I mean are you less likely to listen to what they have to say when it comes to other topics on other threads besides politics. I do







: . Yes very judgemental, but I just don't feel like I want to have much to do with them. I probably wouldn't IRL either.
Congrats to those of you who are open minded enough to say no to my question.

**This thread is not to name names. It is in response to my







: on the Bush supporters rollcall. I know I should just stay out of places like that.


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## CerridwenLorelei (Aug 28, 2002)

not really
for ex I love to read nursing mother's stuff. I may not agree with it but it usually well written and thought out etc. There are a few others as well but I can't do all the names because I am kind of brain dead at the moment ;;;;;
others I have the option of scrolling by just as they can scroll by me


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## CerridwenLorelei (Aug 28, 2002)

gotta watch that cross posting eh ? J/k!


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## ekblad9 (Nov 21, 2001)

I think we all have something to offer here. I'm just as likely to "listen" to advice from someone with different political views as I am with the same. I try not to be too judgemental.


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## tracymom (Mar 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilmiss'mama*
I mean are you less likely to listen to what they have to say when it comes to other topics on other threads besides politics. I do







: . Yes very judgemental, but I just don't feel like I want to have much to do with them. I probably wouldn't IRL either.
Congrats to those of you who are open minded enough to say no to my question.

:LOL
I'll say "No" but would have to switch it around. I've learned a lot from more politically liberal mamas here. Don't always agree with their politics, but enjoy the learning.


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## redsmama (Sep 6, 2003)

While Bush supporters might not have my respect on politics or parenting matters, I might check-out their recipes.


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## Alegria (Jul 21, 2002)

Well I've always liked ekblad7 alot, but it was a big suprise to see you over there voting for Bush


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

I have friends who are voting for Bush. I honestly don't understand why most people would vote for Bush, but obviously many are. I haven't lost respect for them, and I think we have common ground on parenting issues, but I have to admit that I feel we are coming from two different places where we aren't going to understand each other, and that is kind of sad. I guess that's true about everything.


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

I really don't know any Bush supporters IRL, so it's fascinating to me to read their comments. If they're well written and thoughtful, then I really do enjoy reading them and learning about their perspectives. Can't say that I have all of the answers. Yet.
And, what's that old saying..."hold your friends close and your enemies even closer?"

But, if it's just a rant then it's fun to dismiss it. Sure that applies over here, too, though.
















T What does bug me, though, is if someone pontificates as if they are THE expert w/knowledge handed directly down from God (or whomever) and w/God's directive to dispense it to us peons.


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## crazy_eights (Nov 22, 2001)

I don't lose respect for those voting for Bush b/c my feeling about both candidates is "a plague on both their houses". You call this a choice? BLECH!


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## littleaugustbaby (Jun 27, 2003)

It doesn't really bother me. A lot of my RL friends and family are very pro-Bush, and we just avoid talking about politics because it does nothing but lead to arguments. That doesn't mean that I don't want to include them in all other aspects of my life, though.

It's the same thing here, I think. There may be posters here whom I completely disagree with WRT politics, but that doesn't mean that we don't have other things in common. I do take issue with people who feel the need to force their views down my (or anyone's) throat in a political discussion. My biggest problem is when people try to argue but have no solid backing or evidence for their argument, and people who dance around topics in an attempt to avoid answering a question, whether they agree with my political views or not.


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## indie (Jun 16, 2003)

If its someone I already respect I don't lose respect, but I am a little disapointed.


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## sleeping queen (Nov 10, 2003)

Wow, I guess when I'm reading other threads I never even give their political stance a thought. I'm sorry to hear you let that change how you view their posts in other forums.

I just want to say I learned a lot from the health and healing forum the no vax forum. Thanks ladies!!! Oh I almost forgot. I love reading the recipes!!!


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Ditto to Alegria, lol.

My best friend from high school (still a very good friend) and one of my best mommy friends are both extreamly conservative (in different ways, one in the NRA kinda way, the other in the LDS kinda way).

*Specific* things people say might turn me off them (no regular posters here, but if my first contact w/someone was them trolling the activism boards, I might have visceral reactions later) but I wouldn't altogether discount their advice. Others political views make no difference.


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

It depends. Generally speaking, people who support GWB are people with whom I have very little in common. I guess it has more to do with certain of the beliefs most of those people espouse that I find anathema, rather than their support for GWB per se.


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## ekblad9 (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alegria*
Well I've always liked ekblad7 alot, but it was a big suprise to see you over there voting for Bush









Sorry, :LOL I can't help myself. I'm not very politically savvy and think that all politicians are basically without morals or ethics. If it makes you feel better dh is a die hard democrat!


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## me&3 (Nov 29, 2001)

Sheesh, I haven't posted in Activism in a while. I love to lurk though!

Anyway, I can't help but be totally surprised that someone would post such a thing. My lord, I would be too embarrassed to show how judgemental I was if I felt this way. Which I don't.

I'm not trying to be offensive, lilmiss'mama - but yikes.


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## DreamerMama (Feb 2, 2003)

I don't, not because I couldn't, (as in it is a very human feeling to have) but because this place is HUGE and I can't keep anyone straight.

Ever.

In real life my best friend and only friend is; sexually repressed, nauseatingly republican, NRA supporter, war supporter, Bush is God, and all of the other steriotypic crap that goes with being a Southern woman. I love her to death.

The only thing we agree about is, mothering our children and our intense desire to be the best mothers we can. We agree on the fundementals of AP, treading lightly on the earth, and we shared a birthing center midwife. She is increadibly sweet and very loving.

It's enough. It's enough to hold our relationship. We rarely talk about issues we disagree about, and when we do, we get our hip boots out. We can disagree fiercely but still be very good friends.

When someone here pisses me off enough to recognize their name, I generally do carry it over for a while. Politics, rudeness, smugness, know-it-allness, all of the things that could piss peopple off. But...that is just me...I'm kind of petty that way.







At least I'm big enough to admit it. This is a BIG place and it can be very very impersonal at times.


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## MamaSoleil (Apr 24, 2002)

I do look at their posts differently.







:


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## Boobs (Apr 17, 2004)

I don't MEAN to be judgemental or anything, but I will admit that I do. I have to be real honest here. I do hold a grudge against people who still support Bush. I'm sorry. It's not intentional. I'd like to be a better person and be able to ignore someone's political affiliation. However, voting for Bush, in my view, is voting for things that affect my life and the lives of people all over the world in ways that make me ill. Voting for Bush is voting for all the things I hate about the world today. To me, that says a lot about the kind of person you are. And that's a person I don't care to get to know. Sorry.

Having said all that, MOST of my family are Bush supporters. Obviously I love them anyway. I just really don't like what they stand for and try to ignore it. But online, when all you have is a person's words, it's not that easy.

Tracie (ducking for cover)


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## Benjismom (Aug 24, 2002)

I have to admit it does affect the way I think about people. It's not that (as an earlier poster asked) I would discount advice someone gave on a parenting topic or an opinion on a particular cloth diaper. But I do have serious issues with people who don't understand the connection between our culture's dysfunctional parenting style and the domination of our culture by corporate interests, which Bush promotes non-stop. Not that I think Democrats are free of influence by corporations, but there are some meaningful differences between the parties, broadly speaking. When I hear someone bash Nestle for promoting formula and then say she shops at Wal-Mart and votes for Bush, I really have to wonder about the degree of understanding and commitment involved. Yes, it's judgmental, but it's how I feel.

Beth, Mom to Benji (4) and Maggie (16 mos.)


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ekblad7*
think that all politicians are basically without morals or ethics.

You know , I think that's basically the problem, IMHO.
WHY?
Maybe the honest guys don't raise enough $ and can't make it far enough.


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## DreamerMama (Feb 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nursing Mother*

Zagoo1,

I'm glad you mentioned "sterotype" here.

Thanks for the laugh... and I'm glad you still love your friend. Sexually repressed....????.....really????....and she's a Republican:LOL. .....didn't exactly know that was a typical stero-type of us Repubs









Nah, I was stereotyping Southern women, not republicans. I have *ahem* known a couple of very sexually wild republicans.

Seriously, I was just naming things off she does that rub me the wrong way....not necessarily grouping repubs together.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nursing Mother*
....and then for gosh sakes you find out I'm a Republican....... all the respect would be gone for me??

No, not for me. I don't even think about a person's political stance when I'm discussing these issues. I don't participate on activism enough, so I don't really even know who is a Republican. I do find that if people participate rudely in threads, I lose respect for that person's ideas.

IRL, I've had some tense moments just because we all talk about things that we want for our children, and things that might be issues. Like NCLB and some of the negative results of that. I've heard moms get angry and say that I can't possibly blame that on Bush, it isn't *his* fault. They sure aren't sending their children to public school, though. In the larger sense that there are problems with the public school system, no, I don't really blame Bush, but certain policies I blame on certain administrations.

Funny thing about the NRA, though. I know a lot of liberals who are pro-NRA. My husband is in the NRA and he just yesterday said he wasn't voting for any Republicans this election. So maybe you can support the ideals, but not necessarily agree that the only solution is to vote for one party over the other.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

I don't lose respect for moms because they vote for liberal people. I'm not going to take someone less seriously about breastfeeding for vax'ing because they're voting for Kerry.


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## Fianna (Sep 4, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amywillo*
I do find that if people participate rudely in threads, I lose respect for that person's ideas.


ITA. Some of the people nearest and dearest to me are liberals down to the core. I'm not. How people treat each other and their children is what I pay attention to.


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

I'm not less likely to listen to their parenting advice or experiences, but I admit that personally I lose some respect for them. (Not like I actually know them personally or anything, and if I did, it would probably be easier to overlook it. But since supporting Bush would be one of the very few things I know about them, it would have an affect on my opinion of them.)

I really don't mean any disrespect to anyone here, but it's honestly how I feel. It's hard for me to fathom how anyone can support him and the atrocious things he has done.

Edited to add that this doesn't apply to someone just because they are a conservative, or a Republican, or Christian, or whatever. But just if they support Bush. The other stuff I can find respectable. Bush I cannot.


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

Well, I often forget who says what here (with a few exceptions!), & even when I do remember that X person is a raging Repub, or Dem, or whatever....... well, I don't care, I guess. I might disagree to the very end with their opinion, but that doesn't mean that I can't see someone's value as a person.

And Nursing Mother, this

Quote:

If a mom needs help or encouragment all bias' should fall by the way side imo.
is what I always strive for here on these boards.









even if I'd be nose-to-nose with someone IRL, if she's sitting there in pain, emotional troubles, husband/kid troubles, heck- whatever, and she (or he, let's not leave the boys out!) is willing to post on the boards as a vent/plea for advice-- then who am I to not respond, or to ignore this person because I don't agree with their politics. There is a real person, someone just like me, sitting on the other end of a computer in cyber-land, someone who tucks her babies into bed at night & cooks tea for her family, & struggles with a broken washing machine, or a dog crapping all over the baby's bed, or a broken down car, or a partner who has just lost a job, or is overseas........ she's a real person, with real feelings, & I always try to remember that...... even when I'm very cranky..... (okay, some days are better than others, but there you are......)


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## Colorful~Mama (Feb 20, 2003)

well i think most people DO change how they interact with you if they disagree with you politically. Not only in how they respond to your posts (or stop responding to your posts) on other forums, but sometimes in real life. I have had friends from boards that i'd become friends with in real life. When they found out my political beliefs on some issues they decided they couldn't be friends with "someone like that".

I have very recently been taught to NOT post my opinions on politics and religion if i want to stay in business as a wahm







.

and i think its great that folks are being honest in this post - i will be honest too. I don't read the activism and political threads anymore because I don't WANT my opinions to change of women I respect because we disagree politically. I don't post on them anymore because I dont' want to offend someone with my beliefs and lose friends online and in real life because we disagree, even vehemently about how our country does things.


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## DebraBaker (Jan 9, 2002)

I'm eclectic but lean toward Republican and am likely voting for Bush.

That being said I have three children of voting age. One is leaning toward Bush, the other Kerry and yet another likes Nader but might vote for kerry.

My dh is more conservative than me and we have two sons' in law. One is very liberal and anti-war another is socially liberal and pro war (go figure)

Dh's dad is a big liberal an old Union man, his mom is conservative. My parents are conservative but my mom's family is all liberal (she was the lone wolf)

I'm saying this because we have quite lively debates over politics and we're all over the map over the war but we argue and debate but we *love* one another and respect the opinions of all.

I'm proud to have three children with completely diverse political views, I haven't brainwashed them to be what I am.

I am trying to come to terms with the liberal folk here who are manifesting a certain closed minded mentality while the more conservative folk are more open minded (doesn't the permise of the original question make this make sense?)

Debra Baker


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## Ilaria (Jan 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amywillo*
I have friends who are voting for Bush. I honestly don't understand why most people would vote for Bush, but obviously many are. I haven't lost respect for them, and I think we have common ground on parenting issues, but I have to admit that I feel we are coming from two different places where we aren't going to understand each other, and that is kind of sad. I guess that's true about everything.

I very much agree with that.


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## Morgaine (Mar 21, 2004)

When I first read the op, I honestly could not believe that was said at a place like this. A place that says that it likes diversity, that tries to fight prejudice in this world, that tries to be open minded. If instead of Bush supporters, the op had put in 'homosexuals' or 'sahm,' what kind of responses do you think would have been posted? I find it very sad that there are people who think this way about people like me and others here. I had a big rant posted but instead I think I am just going to say that I am very saddened by this, and I hope that y'all can see hyprocracy(sp?) in what y'all think.


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## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

Quote:

Some of my best friends here online are raving liberals.....and I really like them anyway.
Me too!

So no, I dont hold it against someone, regardless of their politics.


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## me&3 (Nov 29, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Morgaine*
When I first read the op, I honestly could not believe that was said at a place like this. A place that says that it likes diversity, that tries to fight prejudice in this world, that tries to be open minded. If instead of Bush supporters, the op had put in 'homosexuals' or 'sahm,' what kind of responses do you think would have been posted? I find it very sad that there are people who think this way about people like me and others here...

Morgaine - well said.


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## AllyRae (Dec 10, 2003)

I don't get how being a Bush supporter makes me any less AP?!? I have been through hell trying to make breastfeeding work, and after 6 months, the hell is continuing just to make sure my baby gets even the slightest bit of breastmilk. I cloth diaper for my son's health and the environment. My baby is ALWAYS in a sling when he wants to be, has co-slept since day one, uses all natural baby products, has NEVER cried it out, will be homeschooled when he's older, and will never be spanked.

It's really sad that even though I work hard to be the best mother I can, I can't be accepted here simply because I am a conservative Catholic REPUBLICAN who more than anything supports traditional natural family values. Do I always agree with Bush? No, but I don't always agree with Dr. Sears, my mother, or my own husband either. But I do agree with him more than Kerry, who in my opinion changes his mind on one issue more than I change my son's diapers in a day and won't be much better for this country.

It's truely sad that I can't receive support or respect for being a good mother based on the checkmark I put on a ballot. I really thought this site had some great things going for it....I'm truely sad that I can be judged a bad person simply because I don't vote like you. Shame on you for your judgement and discrimination...that is something I pride myself on teaching my kids is wrong.


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## hotmamacita (Sep 25, 2002)

:


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

No, I don't loose respect but sometimes I am very surprised. I get to know someones views on life, love, parenting, the environment etc. and I feel in sync with their views. Then I find out that they are voting for Bush, and think he is doing a good job as the American President. I feel confused. I feel conflicted.

I still want to know their opinions and ideas but I am left saddened due to my strong connection to the concepts that Bush will not support.

It is difficult to understand how one can feel passionate about the concepts that Bush does not but still that person will vote for Bush anyway.







.

Being Canadian I have a birds eye view. I feel like I have no power for change.


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## HollyBearsMom (May 13, 2002)

Um, er ah....

My husband is voting for Bush







:

But I still love and respect him every way. I knew he was republican before I married him and never gave it a second thought but then again we were very young and I was pretty a-political at the time. Now we just agree to disagree but it does not change how I feel about his other opinions. His being republican does not change the person he is so I try to keep that in mind when being republican is the only thing I know about a stranger....


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## hotmamacita (Sep 25, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mountain mom*
No, I don't loose respect but sometimes I am very surprised. I get to know someones views on life, love, parenting, the environment etc. and I feel in sync with their views. Then I find out that they are voting for Bush, and think he is doing a good job as the American President. I feel confused. I feel conflicted.

I still want to know their opinions and ideas but I am left saddened due to my strong connection to the concepts that Bush will not support.

It is difficult to understand how one can feel passionate about the concepts that Bush does not but still that person will vote for Bush anyway.







.



MM, i like your honest heart.









And while the OP's post was shocking, I am GLAD people are being honest and out in the oen about their struggle with Bush and those who vote for him. I'd rather have this thread than thinly or not-so-thinly vieled attacks, judgements, distance, and/or arrogance about people who vote for Bush.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Morgaine*
When I first read the op, I honestly could not believe that was said at a place like this. A place that says that it likes diversity, that tries to fight prejudice in this world, that tries to be open minded. If instead of Bush supporters, the op had put in 'homosexuals' or 'sahm,' what kind of responses do you think would have been posted?

Well, if you are talking about this website in particular, I think there are plenty of liberals who would be offended at both, but on another parenting site, it might be understood that it was OK to disapprove of homosexuals. If a thread like this were started here about WOHMs or moms who spank and use CIO, or moms who had had abortions, it wouldn't surprise me. I'm sure there are people here who have lost respect for others based on these issues. I'm sure there are people here who may be really conservative, but may be more willing to trust what a fellow conservative poster has to say on the topic more than a liberal, especially if they have an adversarial relationship with that poster in activism.

I'm not trying to be a bitch here, I guess I just think there have been plenty of judgmental threads here and people who are angry and infuriated with the behavior of others and respond on a thread accordingly. I like to get a variety of opinions and hear what others have to say based on their own experience. If someone comes and posts their opinion on what I should do without any empathy to my situation, and comes across as self righteous (you are wrong, you should never do that!), then I am less likely to listen to what that person has to say.

In any event, I don't think this has anything to do with politics or any other strongly held beliefs. However, I can see how if two posters are used to disagreeing, perhaps even in a not so nice way, one may not give as much credence to what the other says. She may not feel she can trust it, or what have you. I do think it makes people feel good to get feedback and support from people within their own peer group. It's nice to get it from outside your peer group, but if the responses always go the same way and you feel like you are being judged, you might not respect the opinion as much.

So I guess what I am saying is that I consider the contents of the post, but sometimes when I am reading responses from posters who I know have given judgmental responses to others in the past, it is hard to overcome that. It's like a first impression or something.


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## hotmamacita (Sep 25, 2002)

I, personally, don't dismiss people's concerns or view because they do not like me, don't agree with me or have called me names in the past. People ARE free not to like me and disagree with me for whatever reason they chose. I would feel ignorant if I dismissed their anger and concerns just because in a moment of anger they were unkind to me or expressed a view that I do not agree with. I am not better or worse than one single person on this earth.

I feel free to be hurt or angry at what people say or do. (Often times here at MDC it is with someone who is similar to me) But to dismiss someone's life or views because I have judged them as ____________ (fill it in with judgement du jour) is something I am not comfortable with and try to keep myself from doing.


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## Morgaine (Mar 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amywillo*

So I guess what I am saying is that I consider the contents of the post, but sometimes when I am reading responses from posters who I know have given judgmental responses to others in the past, it is hard to overcome that. It's like a first impression or something.

My take on the op was that the loss of respect was due solely on the fact that one was a Bush supporter. Not that they had given judgmental responses before. I do not know if that makes sense but I do see a difference.


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## jeyer (Oct 27, 2003)

No, I don't lose respect for someone simply because they support Bush.

I DO lose respect for people who are so set in their views that they aren't willing to consider another perspective, even when presented with facts that prove them wrong.

I also lose respect for people who repeat misleading political rhetoric and lies, and continue to do so even when the lies are exposed.


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## PurpleBasil (Jan 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Morgaine*
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage." ~ Alexander Tyler

That has to be the biggest sig ever!


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AllyRae*
I don't get how being a Bush supporter makes me any less AP?!?

I may be misreading the thread,but I don't think that's the point. Our parenting philosophies are usually not governed by our politics. You can still label yourself as AP if you believe in Bush or whomever but raise your children "AP."

I read the question as whether or not one's political leanings affect our judgements of their character and validity.


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## pamamidwife (May 7, 2003)

i think, for me, it's the complete opposite. I think I'm totally amazed at similar belief systems around birth, etc., with women who are right wing. Then, I'm surprised at the differences of belief in many areas who are on the same political platform as I.


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

Just to be clear, I absolutely don't think different of anyone as a parent because they support Bush. I wouldn't be any less likely to offer them support or advice, or to listen to their support or advice.

But if you want my honest opinion, then yes, I guess I do lose a little bit of respect for someone for supporting him.


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## lilmiss'mama (Mar 8, 2002)

In response to the poster who asked what if homosexuals or sahms had been the subject of this thread instead of Bush... I think that is comparing apples to oranges. The thing about Bush is that his actions affect me, my children, the world. Most other people/groups do not. Everytime Bush tells another lie or enacts laws that take away our freedoms it affects me and my children and the world. IMO having him in office makes this world a more dangerous place and it is not in our children's best interest. Now, I am not saying people who vote for Bush are intentionally hurting their children. But to me they are hurting our children and future generations. That is were the loss of respect comes in for me.


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:

But to me they are hurting our children and future generations. That is were the loss of respect comes in for me.
Exactly.


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## Morgaine (Mar 21, 2004)

Well I guess that it is all a matter of opinion about Bush's actions. I def do not see him making the world a more dangerous place. I think he is making it a safer place for everyone. I could say the same thing for Kerry. I believe that his actions might put America in danger of another attack. But I do not lose respect for anyone voting for him. But thats me.

That said I do not think that this is the place for me. I hold no ill will toward anyone here and I hope the same goes for y'all. Take care everyone and I wish you all happiness.


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## AllyRae (Dec 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BusyMommy*
I may be misreading the thread,but I don't think that's the point. Our parenting philosophies are usually not governed by our politics. You can still label yourself as AP if you believe in Bush or whomever but raise your children "AP."

I read the question as whether or not one's political leanings affect our judgements of their character and validity.

Yeah, but if you don't respect me because of my political preference, you would be hard pressed to listen to anything I have to say regarding parenting. Why shouldn't I be respected, especially on a parenting board? Of course, if this was labeled at the top of the forum as a democrat or liberal board, I can see where I wouldn't be respected. I guess I don't understand why my religious or political views should influence the respect I get on a parenting board. Afterall, I love my child and would do absolutely everything I can to make sure he feels and knows love. Shouldn't I get respect for treating my child as a unique and worthy human being, regardless of who I vote for?

Why do some people take any opportunity to cut another person down instead of offering support and understanding? How can one teach openness, understanding, and love to a child when demonstrating blatent discrimination? This goes for anything... It's really hard to teach a child to not judge other people on the basis of one thing if you automatically discriminate against someone simply because they don't agree with you.

Also, instead of outright disrespecting me, don't you think a better way would be to show me why your way is "better"? Instead, now I just think that someone who would not respect me based on my political views is close-minded and judgemental...and that becomes the view I have of anything they would have to say to me. Maybe adults should interact with other adults the same way they would interact with their children...love, understanding, and treating the other person as a unique human being with feelings, opinions, and worth...


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

T AllyRae, you should know about the 'Low-Milk Supply' Tribe thread. I think it's over in the finding your tribe section. Come on over if you need some support. There's a wide range of experiences described by the mums there- it might help a bit if you're feeling like you're the only one with low supply (trust me, you're not!).

And morgaine, a quick response:

Quote:

That said I do not think that this is the place for me. I hold no ill will toward anyone here and I hope the same goes for y'all.
The Activism/War & Politics section of these boards gets pretty down & dirty sometimes. It's the place where you want to put on your thickest skin before wading in. But please don't give up on MDC altogether just because we might have strong differences of opinion. I hold no ill will towards anyone here either based on their political preferences.


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## AllyRae (Dec 10, 2003)

Aussiemum...thank you for the recommendation...I'll definately go check that out!


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## hotmamacita (Sep 25, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AllyRae*
Yeah, but if you don't respect me because of my political preference, you would be hard pressed to listen to anything I have to say regarding parenting. Why shouldn't I be respected, especially on a parenting board? Of course, if this was labeled at the top of the forum as a democrat or liberal board, I can see where I wouldn't be respected. I guess I don't understand why my religious or political views should influence the respect I get on a parenting board. Afterall, I love my child and would do absolutely everything I can to make sure he feels and knows love. Shouldn't I get respect for treating my child as a unique and worthy human being, regardless of who I vote for?

Why do some people take any opportunity to cut another person down instead of offering support and understanding? How can one teach openness, understanding, and love to a child when demonstrating blatent discrimination? This goes for anything... It's really hard to teach a child to not judge other people on the basis of one thing if you automatically discriminate against someone simply because they don't agree with you.

Also, instead of outright disrespecting me, don't you think a better way would be to show me why your way is "better"? Instead, now I just think that someone who would not respect me based on my political views is close-minded and judgemental...and that becomes the view I have of anything they would have to say to me. Maybe adults should interact with other adults the same way they would interact with their children...love, understanding, and treating the other person as a unique human being with feelings, opinions, and worth...


Yes, I agree with you. We should respect each other and I think that IRL, many of the mamas who say they do not respect other mamas would, in fact, respect them. This medium adds an element of freedom to one's anger and judgement. I just think, however, deep down, the mamas here are tremendously open to each other. Sure sometimes words are hurtful and arrogant but I just think that women this thoughtful about parenting would, IRL, not be disrespectful to another mama.

I think, overall, this is a safe place for mama with prejudices and thoughts about 'the other' to articulate them and learn about how their words impact people. We all can be arrogant and smug but if we have no safe place to have that exposed how will we ever grow?


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

I have to say that I was like the OP (the other way around though) a couple of years ago with online situations (I've always had diverse friends IRL). I have made a descision in my life to do my best to be a less judgemental person, and to realize that most everyone around me has something of value to offer me, and so- I work toward being a person who sees the value in others. I am a work in progress and I believe others are too, and that I can learn a lot from ALL of the people around me. I think it's good to admit our predjudices, but to work on them as opposed to being proud of them







.


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## Rainbow (Nov 19, 2001)

no, I don't think I do.

I DO though loose respect for some local Bush supporters because of *how* they share and discuss their ideals. Sometimes I feel like people will vote Republican regardless of the issues, and yes I loose respect for people who seem that way. But people who can discuss logically and weigh the issues and still choose him I just disagree with.

I don't think it affects my hearing them outside this board. Certainly on political issues I listen with a skeptics ear. I really can not understand why someone would vote for bush, even a die hard republican.

And it isn't even all about the war, with all he has done against our battle on vaccines and FOR the pharm companies alone makes me hurl. Disgusting environmental policies. The decline of the bill of rights while he's been in power. And then, of course, the war.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rainbow*
Disgusting environmental policies.


America has the highest amount of emissions in the world yet the Bush administration did not think the environmental issues of our time are a priority.
He completely through out all previous organized attempts at putting together a US policy on environmental concerns.

Without nature we as humans cease to exsist we are not above it.


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## Raven67 (Apr 20, 2002)

I know that ideally we should be able to tolerate all these diverse political views, but I am only human. I am not against all Republicans, prefer to take it on a case-by-case basis....there may possibly be a decent one out there. But, when you consider Bush, his illegal war, and everything else he has wreaked havoc on, I think you would have to be pretty clueless to support him. So, even though I like a couple of the pro-Bush people here too, I have to admit I lose interest and respect when I hear someone say they support Bush and/or the war in Iraq. I think it was brave and honest of the OP to aske this question.


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## guestmama9924 (Mar 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EFmom*
It depends. Generally speaking, people who support GWB are people with whom I have very little in common.

ditto

KeysMama-treehugging,bleeding heart, protesting feminist veggie mama....


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hotmamacita*
People ARE free not to like me and disagree with me for whatever reason they chose. I would feel ignorant if I dismissed their anger and concerns just because in a moment of anger they were unkind to me or expressed a view that I do not agree with. I am not better or worse than one single person on this earth.

Oh, people are free not to like me also, and I'm sure there are many who do not.









I don't feel ignorant dismissing their anger or concerns if I feel it is warranted. We all have to do what is right for our situation. If I ask for feedback and someone comes across with some negative and judgmental feedback that I think is from a result of a completely different mindset than my own, chances are I'm not going to give it as much weight. I would read it and examine the points made for validity in my situation, but I'm not necessarily going to accept the judgment as valid. For example, if I asked for NIP opinions and someone tells me I am immoral for nursing in public, well, I would chalk that up to a difference of opinion, but I wouldn't let it affect my behavior.

To address Morgaine's comment, I was just answering for myself. I guess I'm way off the topic now, huh? I don't summarily dismiss what someone has to say because he or she supports a different political candidate than I do, but sometimes things color my judgment, like the situations I've already described. I feel that is a normal response, but maybe not, judging from hotmamacita's response.

OK, back to the original conversation.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't even live in the USA, but I know all about your guys politics. all we have here is american T.V. (and a few canadian channels). And I've also read the two Micheal Moore books, Stupid White men, and Dude, where's my country.

I didn't read all the posts because I don't have time, but I do agree with lilmiss's mama in the feeling of loosing respect for a MDC mamma because she votes bush. Bush is like the anti-christ, IMO. I would think that any parent who has enough sense to parent their children in the "AP" way (which I thought was the basis of MDC) would also have the sense to see through Bush's outright lies and the truth that america is in Iraq to secure their oil prospects, nothing else. And besides that, he's the freaking anti-christ!


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## hotmamacita (Sep 25, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Mamajaza**
And besides that, he's the freaking anti-christ!









no, I do not think Bush is the anti-Christ given who Bush is today. he doesn't fit the Bible's description nor the Islamic description of the anti-Christ.

I can reference both descriptions for you if you like. Just PM me.


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## tracymom (Mar 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Mamajaza**
And besides that, he's the freaking anti-christ!









I disagree with this statement. No evidence. Just because you hate and despise someone does not make them the antichrist.


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## jengi33 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hotmamacita*
no, I do not think Bush is the anti-Christ given who Bush is today. he doesn't fit the Bible's description nor the Islamic description of the anti-Christ.

I can reference both descriptions for you if you like. Just PM me.


Hotmama


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## Raven67 (Apr 20, 2002)

I would bet dollars to donuts that the poster was using the term "anti-christ" metaphorically to denote a very evil person. Sounds like an apt description of G.W. Many of us (especially the anti-Bushers) don't even believe in "satan" or "antichrists" or other such creatures. That is a fundamentalist Christian idea. I'm sure most of you realize this...but for those who seemed to take the term literally....


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Raven67*
I would bet dollars to donuts that the poster was using the term "anti-christ" metaphorically to denote a very evil person. Sounds like an apt description of G.W. Many of us (especially the anti-Bushers) don't even believe in "satan" or "antichrists" or other such creatures. That is a fundamentalist Christian idea. I'm sure most of you realize this...but for those who seemed to take the term literally....


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## mahdokht (Dec 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hotmamacita*
no, I do not think Bush is the anti-Christ given who Bush is today. he doesn't fit the Bible's description nor the Islamic description of the anti-Christ.

I can reference both descriptions for you if you like. Just PM me.


umm...we don't have an anti-christ, Muslims that is.


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## Heart.Revolution (Apr 30, 2004)

check out this game.
anti- george bush game
bush game

some parts get kinda gross the further along you get...but its really funny!!!!

"a fun and fact filled adventure about the most appalling presidency in the history of the united states"


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## tracymom (Mar 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Raven67*
I would bet dollars to donuts that the poster was using the term "anti-christ" metaphorically to denote a very evil person. Sounds like an apt description of G.W. Many of us (especially the anti-Bushers) don't even believe in "satan" or "antichrists" or other such creatures. That is a fundamentalist Christian idea. I'm sure most of you realize this...but for those who seemed to take the term literally....

I knew that and suspect HMC did also. In my opinion it is a poor description and a pretty offensive, or at least inflammatory, term when used in that way, though I'll admit that I see it used that way often.


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## burritomama (Aug 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Fianna*
How people treat each other and their children is what I pay attention to.

I agree.

Yet, I also think how one votes and which political and social policies one supports (say funding school lunches for the poor, etc). affects other people and, most especially, other people's children.

I don't see personal behavior spearate from the actions one takes in the political arena.

To quote the old, old saying (how old am I anyway? yikes.): the personal is political.


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## hotmamacita (Sep 25, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mahdokht*
umm...we don't have an anti-christ, Muslims that is.









Dajjal?

Perhaps, this is more of a belief in the particular Mosque that I was raised in. The Iman there spent a lot of time teaching about him and warning us to be very wary of a leader whom EVERYONE adored. He explain that this man, the evil Dajjal was to be the anti-christ. I have some written references and was drawing upon that and some of the things my Muslim friends and FAMILY have sent me.

I do not claim to be an authority on Islam since I left it at 20.

But I have to say, I have NEVER been called (okay so you loosely implied it) a fundamentalist Christian and Raven, that cracked me up. You assumed a lot about me. I am not as ignorant or as fundamentalist as you want to imply....

Chill, mamas. I was being playful.


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## hotmamacita (Sep 25, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Raven67*
I would bet dollars to donuts that the poster was using the term "anti-christ" metaphorically to denote a very evil person. Sounds like an apt description of G.W. Many of us (especially the anti-Bushers) don't even believe in "satan" or "antichrists" or other such creatures. That is a fundamentalist Christian idea. I'm sure most of you realize this...but for those who seemed to take the term literally....


Okay, I want to talk about this for a second. And Raven I don't mean to single you out persay.

But I just don't view discussions like this thread as a US vs. THEM sort of thing. Personally, I don't give a flip who thinks who is the anti-christ or who uses the term as a joke or seriously or even as a way to describe one's hatred of a world leader/actor/in-law....

But see I kinda feel like now you have put me on ONE side and are distancing yourself from THAT side. I feel like you just assumed how I intended it without asking and used my post to articulate some anger at fundamentalists. I see that happening a lot here at MDC with all sorts of groups of people. Hey, I have HUGE issues with fundamentalists. But to assume something and go off on a person, which I have certainly done (







sleeping queen), is really getting old on these threads.

Okay the following is pure RANT and directed at no-one in particular







:

I am really sick of reading things like " the liberal propaganda"; "the homosexual agenda"; "the stupid fundamentalists"; "the anti-choice women"; "the anti-life murders"; "the terrorist Muslims"; "the Christers"; "the Christian taliban"; "the immoral democrats"; and









HATE IS SO UGLY.

Okay, I don't feel any better but I am DONE.


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## tracymom (Mar 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hotmamacita*
I am really sick of reading things like " the liberal propaganda"; "the homosexual agenda"; "the stupid fundamentalists"; "the anti-choice women"; "the anti-life murders"; "the terrorist Muslims"; "the Christers"; "the Christian taliban"; "the immoral democrats"; and









HATE IS SO UGLY.

Okay, I don't feel any better but I am DONE.









ITA, HMC! Thank you for articulating that a heckuva lot better than I could.

Sorry for being more serious than you were. I'm not a fundie CHristian either but the term just annoys me, likewise when someone somebody doesn't like is described as the devil, evil incarnate, etc.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming, anti-Bush folks!


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

ITA HMC!!

Hate perpetuates hate. What kind of emotion or energy you put into the world in the emotion or energy that circulates and comes back. This is what I believe. If you put forth goodness, peace, understanding and hope this is what the world will feed off of.

As far as I can see Bush is perpetuating FEAR HATE and DISRESPECT. That is what he is putting forth to the world for all of the American people as your president.

He has an agenda, are you sure you are clear on what it is? Is he?

One last thing.....do not rely on Fox news or the like for you updates...they are hopelessly redundant.


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## alie (Jan 1, 2003)

The OP is an interesting question. Certainly politics is a sticky issue. To answer, (thinking about the Republicans I know and love-there are a few) I notice that the republicans I know get a little glassed over when they talk about politics. It's like they go into a zone of rhetoric or something...I dont notice this with my liberal friends. They do get worked up, but less kind of religiously zealous, more critical thinking skills, maybe. Thats just my opinion, and yes I dont post here much but I thought I would jump in as myself and my husband have noticed this about our republican friends. But we still like them, we just dont discuss politics much. so probably the same on the boards, same deal.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Mamajaza**
Bush is like the anti-christ, IMO.

Notice the term IMO, which means in *my* opinion. I'm not speaking literally of your president. I just had a really bad feeling about this guy before he even got elected. and now he seems to be proving himself as just what I felt.









It's not like us people in Canada can totally ignore what is going on in the USA. I almost feel like I live in America. I do live closer to the border, so that could be part of it. Whatever is going on there, we hear about it.

If I was in America, I would vote for Nader. I personally believe that nature is all we've really got. We live on earth, not on some capitalist dreamscape.


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## Joyce in the mts. (Jan 12, 2003)

Y'know...I am struggling with this. I know in my heart when I lose respect for another, that I lose it for myself too.

I want to be a better person.
Joyce in the mts.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

I hear ya Mama Jaza.

You know I once had neighbours that constantly threw out stuff that could be recycled. I begged and pleaded with them to change their ways. They always replied that it was their right, their freedom to do as they please.

It gets tiring picking up our neighbours garbage.

Change has got to come.....and it starts with ousting Bush.


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## steph (Dec 5, 2001)

"We live on earth, not on some capitalist dreamscape"

Oh shit, someone forgot to tell that to Bush and his cronies!!!









I hear you loud and clear! Ok, back to your regularly scheduled thread...


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## lula (Feb 26, 2003)

To answer the original topic, since I do not really know how to reply to everything else...









I do not lose respect for a person based on their stated, one word political description. I am very liberal on some things, very conservative on others, have moderate views etc. I do not fit a one word description well and I do not think that even if a person fits the "Bush supporter" or "Kerry supporter" description it necessarily describes everything about that person to such an extent that I can increase or decrease my estimation of that person.

I lose respect for people who make blanket decisions, decisions that are not well thought out, or lemming-like decisions. If a person makes a decision that disagrees fundamentally with my own this is not cause to lose respect it is cause to have discussion and debate the merits of such a decision.

I am able to respect many people that I fundamentally disagree with and though I may not take their advice on political matters I am very open to discussion.

Not respecting a person seems like such a fundamental foundation of inter-personal relationships and civil society that taking it away based on a view without further examination seems a bit harsh.


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

I am responding to the Opening Post.

I have been accused of being a Bush supporter, but I am not.

I am not a Republican.

If someone says they support Bush, I would listen/read their opinion. I have never written off anyone who supported Clinton, Gore, Kerry, ---there is room for all opinions here.

We can all learn from some healthy, invigorating, intelligent debate.


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