# I don't want to be a wife and mother anymore.



## Funny Face

And I wanted to be able to just tell someone that.

I hate this. I don't want to be here anymore. Every moment of every day is about everyone else. I hurt all over and feel I am completely used up.

I wish I could go back and undo it all. Make it so that none of it ever happened.


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## mckmama

This sounds like depression. Are you opposed to anti-depressant medication? I'm sure you love your family and don't really mean you'd rather not have them in your life!


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## LynnS6

I agree that it sounds like depression. That is exactly how I felt when I had PPD (after both kids - the hormone swings really mess with my mind!)

How old are you kids? Do you have someone to take them for a bit so you can take a long walk? Do you have a friend/family member you can call or go see?

Depression is serious and needs care. Please call your doctor or midwife. It's OK to put your own needs first for a bit so you can get well. Healthy kids start with a healthy mother!

Hang in there and let us know how you're doing.


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## pranava

Thanks for sharing that with us!







It is very brave to admit to having those feelings. Some days I am there too, and I definitely need to take the advice I'm about to give. . . Time to recharge yourself!! Weekend breaks and 15 minutes a day of you time is nice, but when you get to the point it seems like you are at, I think you need to take more drastic measures. Your kids and partner will benefit from the best you. So, think of what you were doing or who you were when you felt like the Best You. Did you have a certain job? Were you a student? A particular hobby that made you shine or made you excited about life? Find a way to incorporate the things that made you the best you back into your life - preferably not by adding MORE obligations to your daily life, but by downsizing the ones you already have.

I know, easier said than done! Thanks for letting us hear your frustration. I've been so close to my cracking point all June and I think you gave me the push I need to find my best me too. I hope things get better for you soon.


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## CrazyCatLady

It could be depression (none of us can really diagnose that online based off of one post though). Or it could just honestly be how the OP feels. Not everyone loves being a mother. And that's ok too.

OP I'm glad you felt you could vent here and I hope people don't get too judgmental or anything. I really hope that you can get some relief soon. There are so many options for reducing your stress, or improving how you feel about your life. I know how hard it is when you're in the middle of a bad funk though.







Feel free to pm me or post here if you need to talk or anything. I've been there, so I really feel for you right now.


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## Linda on the move

May be it's time to redefine "being a good mother."









I don't know anything about you but what is on your signature -- you homeschool, tandum nurse, and use cloth diapers. You don't have to. You can make different choices and make time for yourself in your life. Being a mother doesn't mean that every single minute of the day and night HAS to be about someone else. It is possible to be a good mother and have balance in your life.


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## philomom

Maybe a little depression but it sounds like you need some goals, some real life friends and some fun activities for your family to share when you are together. Kids can go to school and preschool. You can take evening classes at the local college. Or get a part-time job that makes you feel like you are making a difference.

If its any consolation, I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum. I love my mommy role, my home- making and little house so much and my hubby keeps telling me to "get a job". Sigh. The grass is never just green enough for any of us, eh?


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## reezley

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> May be it's time to redefine "being a good mother."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know anything about you but what is on your signature -- you homeschool, tandum nurse, and use cloth diapers. You don't have to. You can make different choices and make time for yourself in your life. Being a mother doesn't mean that every single minute of the day and night HAS to be about someone else. It is possible to be a good mother and have balance in your life.


I think this makes sense too. This list does show how much GIVING you have been doing. I admire that, and the choices may have been right for you when you started them, but your kids are older now (I don't know their ages, but all kids are getting older all the time) and maybe it's time for your family to adjust to YOUR needs now. Something's got to give! I hope you can find some time and support for you.


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## karne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> May be it's time to redefine "being a good mother."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know anything about you but what is on your signature -- you homeschool, tandum nurse, and use cloth diapers. You don't have to. You can make different choices and make time for yourself in your life. Being a mother doesn't mean that every single minute of the day and night HAS to be about someone else. It is possible to be a good mother and have balance in your life.


Exactly.


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## rightkindofme

I have times when I feel that way. It's hard. Linda is right. You don't actually have to give 24/7. I'm struggling with finding balance as well.


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## MamaMunchkin

It takes a lot of courage to acknowledge what you're feeling, even more to put it down in words









Please, get some time off, a mini break, anything that's just for you. Can you get some temporary childcare help, or household help, or just anything so you can just take a break? That would be the first thing to do right now.

Once you're recharged, even a little bit, it'll be easier to figure out what this all means, if anything, and what to do about it.


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## bohemian madre

I am so sorry this is where you are today. My heart goes out to you. It sucks to feel this way however you diagnosis this!! I feel completely burned out as a mother too. To suggest that I stop mothering my children in the ways that I feel are most healthy (tandem nursing, cloth diapering, homeschooling, co-sleeping) is intolerable. I want support to mother this way - not told to do it differently. I want our culture to support mothers. I would actually get tax credits if I send them away to daycare! I am burned out and don't have my needs met because it is impossible to meet the needs of an attached family in a nuclear family structure. I feel angry that the only way to keep going is for me to either dig a little deeper and give more or compromise my children's current and future health and happiness. What kind of world is this that I have to fight to mother my children in an attached way - where there is little to no support to mother my children?


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## choli

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MamaMunchkin*
> 
> It takes a lot of courage to acknowledge what you're feeling, even more to put it down in words
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please, get some time off, a mini break, anything that's just for you. Can you get some temporary childcare help, or household help, or just anything so you can just take a break? That would be the first thing to do right now.
> 
> Once you're recharged, even a little bit, it'll be easier to figure out what this all means, if anything, and what to do about it.


She has childcare, it's called a husband. OP, take off for a weekend and leave the kids with your husband. It will do him good what it entails to deal with them, and will do you good to have a break.


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## Storm Bride

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bohemian madre*
> 
> I am so sorry this is where you are today. My heart goes out to you. It sucks to feel this way however you diagnosis this!! I feel completely burned out as a mother too. To suggest that I stop mothering my children in the ways that I feel are most healthy (tandem nursing, cloth diapering, homeschooling, co-sleeping) is intolerable. I want support to mother this way - not told to do it differently. I want our culture to support mothers. I would actually get tax credits if I send them away to daycare! I am burned out and don't have my needs met because it is impossible to meet the needs of an attached family in a nuclear family structure. I feel angry that the only way to keep going is for me to either dig a little deeper and give more or compromise my children's current and future health and happiness. What kind of world is this that I have to fight to mother my children in an attached way - where there is little to no support to mother my children?


I get lots of support. The reality is that, if one is nursing two children (I've never done that, but have come close - nursed right up to labour), cosleeping, and also homeschooling and doing cloth diapering (okay - maybe not the CD...I don't really find it that much extra work), then one is pretty much totally subordinating one's own needs to that of the children. I don't think that's always a bad thing, but it does wear a person down. Whether it should or shouldn't be that way isn't really relevant. It is that way. If a mom is burning out, that reality has to trump ideals. Maybe that means you still do all those things, but dial down the homeschooling a little, and make sure you get out two evenings a week for an hour or two. Maybe it means something else.

And, homeschooling and AP are two different things. Choosing to homeschool (I do, also) means that we are choosing to place a heavier burden on our own nuclear family. I don't think blaming the society we live in, because we choose to take on more demands within our own family unit, makes a lot of sense. I was an AP parent (although I'd never heard the term) with ds1, and he went to public school. I got lots of support for the way I parented. I also get lots of support for homeschooling, actually. But, homeschooling is still taking on a schedule that involves a lot less downtime. A lack of support isn't the issue. The fact that I've chosen (as have others, including the OP) to take a large workload, which doesn't include many built-in breaks, onto myself is the issue. If and when I reach a point where I'm seriously burning out, then it's time to re-evaluate...but not because there's no support - because it's a big, big job.


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## Alenushka

Get a life! I am serious. Get a life outside of being mom and wife. Stop tandem nursing and that will free up time. Hell with being green. Happy mom is more important that recycling.

See a therapist. Enroll ion class of some sort just for you. Hire a mother helper or set up times when you DH is with kids and you are out somewhere.

There is no martyrdom in mother!


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## Storm Bride

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *choli*
> 
> She has childcare, it's called a husband. OP, take off for a weekend and leave the kids with your husband. It will do him good what it entails to deal with them, and will do you good to have a break.


She's tandem-nursing. Taking off for a weekend isn't that practical at that stage, ime.


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## Hannah32

Your sig says you're in desperate need of a nap. I hope you can make sure that you get one, even if someone else has to watch the kids. And then, once you've had some sleep, maybe you can think about what help you need. Take care of yourself....


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## choli

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> She's tandem-nursing. Taking off for a weekend isn't that practical at that stage, ime.


It is if she has a pump.


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## ChristyMarie

You sound completely done - mentally and physically. I think we all have those times as a parent. I hope you can find some support near you to help you through this difficult stage. Don't be afraid to reach out to others.

(((hugs)))


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## chaoticzenmom

You need to dig through your resources and find some help. You don't have to feel this way. It may be depression or it may be something else (thyroid, sleep deprivation, etc). Will you go see a doctor or midwife and get some blood tests run and consider counseling and/or medication? The faster you get help, the better. Just pick up the phone and call whoever you use for healthcare and see if they can get you in. It could be time to change things up in your life and a counselor will really be able to help you figure out where to start. Please let us know you've made the phone call, even if you feel silly calling.


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## mumkimum

At some point thinking about whether you're depressed or can create more support/breaks into your routine life is probably a good move.

I think there are times within marriage and parenthood that everyone feels like they hate those parts of their life though. I've been there too. . . and the best I can say that it all changed a little bit after awhile and then I was able to deal with things better and felt better and was happier again.

Thinking about my life and creating some new goals or things I can achieve (even really tiny or uninteresting ones that at least improve *my* life - like making really delicious pancakes or actually keeping the laundry together) has been something that helps me. I also drive around listening to forlorn music and feeling sorry for myself sometimes when I need to (in between running errands, yk?) and eventually get those feelings out there and can listen to happier and more inspiring music. (Music has just always been important to me in processing and getting through my feelings). Maybe writing, reading something new, making some art, cooking new foods. . . you'll get somewhere better.


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## funkymamajoy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> May be it's time to redefine "being a good mother."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know anything about you but what is on your signature -- you homeschool, tandum nurse, and use cloth diapers. You don't have to. You can make different choices and make time for yourself in your life. Being a mother doesn't mean that every single minute of the day and night HAS to be about someone else. It is possible to be a good mother and have balance in your life.










You can change your mind about things, especially if it makes you happier. Don't worry about living up to ideals. I hope you can find a break and I really hope that you have someone in real life that you can talk to.


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## swd12422

I'm so sorry you're feeling this way. I've BTDT, and I never tandem nursed, homeschooled, or had more than 1 kid! So that should tell you two things:

1 - You're not alone. Others have and do feel this way, even if they're not bold enough to say it out loud or online.

2 - You're a strong, loving mama. When I have bad days, I think about all the women who have more than 1child, or kids with SN/HN and feel ridiculous for not being able to cope. You're strong enough to have gotten this far with your kids, doing all you do for them, and you're strong for having admitted your feelings, no matter how unpopular they might make you. Now be strong and pass those kids off to someone else for an afternoon, put your feet up, and rest!


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## thinkingmom

The current culture we are in has a lot to do with burning AP moms out. The point was made that if you choose to homeschool, then you choose to tax the nuclear family. Why is that? Because we live in a culture where we have lots of support and help for being detached parents. We can have others watch our kids (public school, daycare, etc) others grow and cook our foods, etc... Choosing to grow our own foods and cooking "taxes" the family! Because no one is supporting a lifestyle where we all do it "right". I don't think it is right that in order to keep my sanity I have to wean off my kids and choose not to homeschool and that I need a therapist and a massage to be normal! What is this life for anyways? It just might be that if we lived in a different way, with real support or real community then we would be healthier without the need for "me" time. Here's the reality - mom is home trying to meet the needs of kids and herself and husband, and basically she can't so someone or everyone is getting run down. In one possible ideal case - 2 or three moms get together with their kids of various ages, they all do some schooling or unschooling or whatever in the morning (crafting, gardening, preschooling, doing science, whatever) and then some enjoy chatting while cooking while others (maybe younger kids) are playing outside (all close by and watched) while laundry is getting done as well. Then everyone eats together and they go home for naps! Another possibility - A mom lives in a neighborhood or group (intentional community) where others are all living similarly, there we again find that the people meet on a daily basis for love, work, support, and companionship. They grow foods and cook them (working together and separate/dividing and sharing responsibilities). Anyway, possibilities are endless! Here is a link of a more detailed and realistic example of this real "support" or community I am talking about.

http://www.continuum-concept.org/reading/finding-your-tribe.html

Also, my friend and I, in our attempts to both not go crazy and to not give up our ideals, have created a big tent group called Prelude to Community. There we talk about how we aren't getting our needs met - because sometimes you do need a place to say that - as well as having the larger goal of hoping to one day get ourselves in a real community or support network situation where we can end this problem of AP burnout and lack of support in a detached world. If anyone is interested, feel free to join the group - it is open to all.


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## Storm Bride

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thinkingmom*
> 
> The current culture we are in has a lot to do with burning AP moms out. The point was made that if you choose to homeschool, then you choose to tax the nuclear family. Why is that? Because we live in a culture where we have lots of support and help for being detached parents. We can have others watch our kids (public school, daycare, etc) others grow and cook our foods, etc... Choosing to grow our own foods and cooking "taxes" the family! Because no one is supporting a lifestyle where we all do it "right". I don't think it is right that in order to keep my sanity I have to wean off my kids and choose not to homeschool and that I need a therapist and a massage to be normal! What is this life for anyways? It just might be that if we lived in a different way, with real support or real community then we would be healthier without the need for "me" time.
> 
> Here's the reality - mom is home trying to meet the needs of kids and herself and husband, and basically she can't so someone or everyone is getting run down. In one possible ideal case - 2 or three moms get together with their kids of various ages, they all do some schooling or unschooling or whatever in the morning (crafting, gardening, preschooling, doing science, whatever) and then some enjoy chatting while cooking while others (maybe younger kids) are playing outside (all close by and watched) while laundry is getting done as well. Then everyone eats together and they go home for naps! Another possibility - A mom lives in a neighborhood or group (intentional community) where others are all living similarly, there we again find that the people meet on a daily basis for love, work, support, and companionship. They grow foods and cook them (working together and separate/dividing and sharing responsibilities). Anyway, possibilities are endless! Here is a link of a more detailed and realistic example of this real "support" or community I am talking about.
> 
> http://www.continuum-concept.org/reading/finding-your-tribe.html
> 
> We're living a culture where that's not what most people do. There were all kinds of people supporting each other and helping at the school ds1 went to. That's where the "tribe" is. If someone living in a tribal situation chose to teach their children differently than the way the tribe was doing it, do you think they'd be doing it with a bunch of support, or do you think they'd be on their own? Homeschooling isn't doing it "right". It'd doing it the way we choose to do it, for our particular families. There are a bunch of families right here in my complex who do a lot of this kind of trading off. I'm not interested in participating in that, except in an emergency, because I'm sick of my kids being told off for going barefoot, not having a jacket (in the warm rain), etc. If I'm not involved in the various trade-offs of childcare, etc., then why should they go out of their way to accommodate the ways my life is different than their lives?
> 
> There are people who form intentional communities and do these things. (I wouldn't, because it would drive me more bat-crap crazy than what I'm doing right now. Different strokes and all that.) How many people talking about not getting any support for a decision to homeschool are out trying to form an intentional community? There are a few...but there are a whole lot who aren't doing that, too. Since I chose, and continue to choose, to live my life in a way that's different from the vast majority of the people around me, I'm pretty much on my own. The kind of scenario you mention above puts me on someone else's clock all the time. That doesn't appeal to me. It doesn't sound supportive. It sounds stifling. To each their own. But, I choose to live the way I do, and turning around and complaining about the lack of support from people who make different choices makes no sense to me. I live in the culture i live in, and if I'm doing things in a way that doesn't work for my family (including me), then I need to figure out what changes are necessary to make things work. For some people, that may mean forming an intentional community. Personally, I'd rather have a root canal. I live in a nuclear family, and I like it that way...but the context of all my life decisions is within that nuclear family.
> 
> In any case, the OP has to make whatever decisions work best for her. But, the bottom line is that whatever our AP (or other) ideals may be, we have to live in the world we live in. In that world, we're making our choices (most of us) within some variant of the nuclear family - one or two parents, with however many children - and if those choices don't work within that context, then it's going to take a lot longer to change the context (certainly worth working towards, if one sees that as a desirable goal) than it is to change the dynamics within one's own situation. In the case of unmet needs and burnout, support for AP, homeschooling, etc. is largely a theoretical consideration. The world isn't going to change to suit those who'd rather live in a more tribal environment, and burnout can't be cured by wishing for a different context.


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## Smokering

Unfortunately, it might not be as simple for the OP as "stop homeschooling and quit tandem nursing". If she feels strongly about doing those things for ideological reasons, quitting might make her feel worse, not better. I've felt that way about a lot of things in the past - torn between (temporarily) hating them and believing in them very strongly. I've had times where I LOATHED nursing DD, but weaning her would have been bad for her and bad for me, in that I would have felt extremely guilty about it. In that particular case, I was able to compromise (cutting down and eventually eliminating night feeds), but if the "attack" had come on several months earlier, I wouldn't have been able to because DD just wouldn't have been ready - KWIM?

I'm not saying the OP should feel guilty if she chooses to stop tandem-nursing or homeschooling or whatever - I'm just saying, from the perspective of someone with a tendency to depression, mixed feelings about motherhood and strong ideological positions on a bunch of pesky issues, that it might not be as simple as "not doing X, Y or Z will make you happier". If she feels (rightly or wrongly) that by sending her kids to school she's doing violence to her own beliefs, doing her kids a disservice, etc, it'll probably just make her feel guilty and failure-y.

OP, I know mothering can make you feel like you're just giving, giving, giving all the time, and to some extent that's normal (although not desirable); but marriage shouldn't make you feel that way. Why do you find being a wife tiring? Is your DH supporting your efforts to homeschool? Does he do his bit to make tandem-nursing easier (like picking up the slack with housework while you're in the middle of a nursing session, getting you drinks of water etc)? Does he show he appreciates you, and so on?

Also, I know it sounds prosaic, but how's your nutrition? No chance you're low in iron or vitamin D or B or any of those things that keep people energetic and cheery? Do you get exercise? (Pot calling the kettle black here, I know...)


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## insidevoice

I've had a couple of these days lately. I really don't know any parent who HASN'T had some of these days.

It's ok to reach the end of your rope, sometime you just have to take a breath and start the slow climb back up, other times you need a ladder of support to get you back there. I'm a homeschooling mom whose husband is not here, and who is doing everything alone for about a year. I am also pregnant. I am tired. Yes, I chose this life, and most days I wouldn't change it for the world. Other days I am simply done. I find that on the days I am truly toast- it's best to let some things slide and take care of myself. So what if dinner tonight is a frozen pizza or some simple sandwiches? (Around here it was leftover cold pasta salad for the kids, and I'm about to make myself poached eggs on toast.... ) Bellies are full, there are no dishes to do, and you might steal a few minutes for yourself. Find small cheats as you need them- none of us can be supermom all the time.

I hope you find yourself in a better place tomorrow, but if you find yourself feeling this way all the time, it's probably time to look for some rungs to build the ladder I referenced above. I'm struggling with that myself right now. I suspect that for me some key rungs are going to be to stop nursing for now and to get the kids sleeping on their own. Not really what I wanted in this journey, and I have a lot of guilt over those thoughts (I haven't made the leap yet) but at some point I have to take care of myself to be a better mom.


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## purslaine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Funny Face*
> 
> And I wanted to be able to just tell someone that.
> 
> I hate this. I don't want to be here anymore. Every moment of every day is about everyone else. I hurt all over and feel I am completely used up.
> 
> I wish I could go back and undo it all. Make it so that none of it ever happened.


I have not read the rest of the thread yet but had to post.

I am so sorry


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## Linda on the move

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Smokering*
> 
> Unfortunately, it might not be as simple for the OP as "stop homeschooling and quit tandem nursing". If she feels strongly about doing those things for ideological reasons, quitting might make her feel worse, not better.


Then it's time for counseling. When the way one defines "good mother" causes one to daily wish that their children had never been born, it's time to get help.

(momentarily wishing they hadn't been born is different, but all day every day means that it's time for a change)

I agree that it isn't simple.


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## purslaine

I read the thread. I second (third?) going to a health care provider. You maybe depressed or have other medical issues.

I would work on carving out some time for yourself to reflect on what is really going on. If it is burn out - what can you do to fix it? I would start by carving out some time for myself and, personally, I would leave the house to get it. I know I wouId get sucked into the caretaking role if I tried to stay home.

I am going to assume you feel called to tandem nurse and HS - so I would not eliminate those just yet. Important decisions should not be made when you feel so low. I would consider it if the medical and getting time for myself routes did not work . Your mental health and happiness is far more significant to your family than any sort of bucket list.

Take care,

Kathy


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## princesstutu

OP

I'm so sorry you felt this way. Hopefully, telling us helped relieve some of those feelings and thoughts. I wish you peace and time to yourself for a few hours (at least!).


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## McGucks

My heart goes out to you. I hope that some of the advice has helped. Along with other posters, I commend you for reaching out and being honest about your feelings. It is hard to have those feelings in the first place, and to share them takes additional strength.

I was worried when you said you "hurt all over." Do you have some physical illness on top of working 24/7/365 (which is enough to make anyone hurt all over)? In addition to worrying about you in general, I was worried about that statement.

I hope that you have found some relief and some peace. Being a parent is a hard, hard job, even when you have good support from a partner (which I don't know if you have or not). Please know there are folks out here who want to help in whatever little way we can. Never forget that your children would be devastated without you, mama, no matter how it seems at the moment. Thinking of you.


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## Storm Bride

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Smokering*
> 
> Unfortunately, it might not be as simple for the OP as "stop homeschooling and quit tandem nursing". If she feels strongly about doing those things for ideological reasons, quitting might make her feel worse, not better. I've felt that way about a lot of things in the past - torn between (temporarily) hating them and believing in them very strongly.
> 
> Oh, I totally get that. I've thought a few times that maybe public school would give me a break, but I don't believe it would be good for my kids (the two in the middle - ds1 did pretty well there), and I think the stress of having made a decision I can't stand would probably be worse than the stress of being "on" 24/7.
> 
> I've had times where I LOATHED nursing DD, but weaning her would have been bad for her and bad for me, in that I would have felt extremely guilty about it. In that particular case, I was able to compromise (cutting down and eventually eliminating night feeds), but if the "attack" had come on several months earlier, I wouldn't have been able to because DD just wouldn't have been ready - KWIM?
> 
> I'm not saying the OP should feel guilty if she chooses to stop tandem-nursing or homeschooling or whatever - I'm just saying, from the perspective of someone with a tendency to depression, mixed feelings about motherhood and strong ideological positions on a bunch of pesky issues, that it might not be as simple as "not doing X, Y or Z will make you happier". If she feels (rightly or wrongly) that by sending her kids to school she's doing violence to her own beliefs, doing her kids a disservice, etc, it'll probably just make her feel guilty and failure-y.
> 
> I totally get that.
> 
> OP, I know mothering can make you feel like you're just giving, giving, giving all the time, and to some extent that's normal (although not desirable); but marriage shouldn't make you feel that way. Why do you find being a wife tiring? Is your DH supporting your efforts to homeschool? Does he do his bit to make tandem-nursing easier (like picking up the slack with housework while you're in the middle of a nursing session, getting you drinks of water etc)? Does he show he appreciates you, and so on?
> 
> Also, I know it sounds prosaic, but how's your nutrition? No chance you're low in iron or vitamin D or B or any of those things that keep people energetic and cheery? Do you get exercise? (Pot calling the kettle black here, I know...)


This is a good point. I suspect that if I really made the effort to carve out even 3-4 exercise sessions of even 15-20 minutes each per week, it would make a big difference.

Good luck with all this, OP. I think it's really good that you put this into words and put it out there. Being overwhelmed is hard enough - feeling as though you can't talk about it makes it much, much worse!


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## Subhuti

((((((hug))))))))

If I were trying to do all you do ... I would feel completely ground to dust, too. I admire what you have taken on. Having my first baby, albeit a challenging one, and trying to learn how to be a parent in an isolated situation ~ I didn't even consider one moment taking on CD. I had a very, very hard time with adjusting to being married and having my first baby. I felt like I aged a thousand years between dealing with my husband and my little one. I can't imagine also trying to homeschool on top of that. So you've got my kudos for trying.

I know everyone keeps saying depression ~ but how about saying "a rational response to a crazy situation?" I seriously don't know how the average person could handle what you have taken on.

Do you have support from your DH for breaks? That is how I survived my two kids' baby years (I had two kids spaced apart by under 2 years). When my dh would come home from work, I would, a couple of times a week, bolt out the door for a few hours in the woods. In the summer, during his time off, I would just take off in our car and not really tell anyone where I was going. I'd be simply grabbing a take out sandwich, parking my car besides a stream on a deserted mountain road, and reading the NYer (Okay, and sneaking an illicit cig!). As a matter of fact, I took up smoking (in secret) after I weaned my kids as a way to get some relief and psychological distance from my family/being a mom. Dont recommend that ! ANyway ... Just getting away, parking your car, locking the bedroom door and taking a nap with ear plugs .... you need that == but you need your DH to support you in that, right... or a friend, or family ...or if you have the dough ... a sitter.

I don't know about anti-dep. They sure might get you a little boost, but no way are they going to solve it. Therapy would be nice -- but a support group might be cheaper and better -- of Moms. Can you find one or start one? I Swear I couldn't have done the early years w/o my Mom friends.

Oh -- also, I was just reading that women as they get older (like in their forties) as their hormones change .... they start to have less patience for the whole "I'm going to nurture the world" thing we seem to all have.... I don't know how old you are but is that a possibility?

Thinking of you............


----------



## TheGirls

I felt the way you do, often, when I had only one child. Now I have three and feel pretty good most days (some days I still want to run away and hide, but most days are good). I did two things that worked for me.

1) Cut back on the things that were less important to me. I still plan to homeschool, we still tried to breastfeed the boys, I still cloth diaper (that really doesn't take time for me). But the boys don't cosleep. Turns out they were happier on their own. We didn't sleep train or CIO, but it did take some work. They are also on a routine where they nap 2-3x a day, by themselves. This is good sanity time. We had severe supply issues with the twins, and chose not to continue pumping after 6 months, even though they were getting SOME breastmilk from it. It was too much time for too little milk.

2) Found more time to myself. My DP puts the kids to bed most nights and I stay up a few hours. I do chores mostly, but manage to carve out a bit of "me time". I also made some budget sacrifices to hire a babysitter two days a week for 3 hours. This gives me a very welcome mid-day break to run errands or shut myself away in a room by myself, lol. The kids are all well cared for and I remember what it's like to be ME.

I also second counseling, especially if finding time for yourself doesn't help.

ETA: I also find exercise helps. I got a triple stroller so I can take walks with all three kids. They are often quiet in the stroller, so I get a bit of mental space then too. Plus a damn good workout pushing 140lbs of stroller.


----------



## Alyantavid

OP, you need a break. A regular, scheduled break with time to do whatever you want. And counseling couldn't hurt either.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thinkingmom*
> 
> The current culture we are in has a lot to do with burning AP moms out. The point was made that if you choose to homeschool, then you choose to tax the nuclear family. Why is that? *Because we live in a culture where we have lots of support and help for being detached parents. We can have others watch our kids (public school, daycare, etc) others grow and cook our foods, etc... Choosing to grow our own foods and cooking "taxes" the family! Because no one is supporting a lifestyle where we all do it "right".* I don't think it is right that in order to keep my sanity I have to wean off my kids and choose not to homeschool and that I need a therapist and a massage to be normal! What is this life for anyways? It just might be that if we lived in a different way, with real support or real community then we would be healthier without the need for "me" time. Here's the reality - mom is home trying to meet the needs of kids and herself and husband, and basically she can't so someone or everyone is getting run down. In one possible ideal case - 2 or three moms get together with their kids of various ages, they all do some schooling or unschooling or whatever in the morning (crafting, gardening, preschooling, doing science, whatever) and then some enjoy chatting while cooking while others (maybe younger kids) are playing outside (all close by and watched) while laundry is getting done as well. Then everyone eats together and they go home for naps! Another possibility - A mom lives in a neighborhood or group (intentional community) where others are all living similarly, there we again find that the people meet on a daily basis for love, work, support, and companionship. They grow foods and cook them (working together and separate/dividing and sharing responsibilities). Anyway, possibilities are endless! Here is a link of a more detailed and realistic example of this real "support" or community I am talking about.
> 
> http://www.continuum-concept.org/reading/finding-your-tribe.html
> 
> Also, my friend and I, in our attempts to both not go crazy and to not give up our ideals, have created a big tent group called Prelude to Community. There we talk about how we aren't getting our needs met - because sometimes you do need a place to say that - as well as having the larger goal of hoping to one day get ourselves in a real community or support network situation where we can end this problem of AP burnout and lack of support in a detached world. If anyone is interested, feel free to join the group - it is open to all.


Perhaps the reason moms get burned out is that they can't reach out for help without being acused of not "doing it right".


----------



## MamaJenese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alyantavid*
> 
> OP, you need a break. A regular, scheduled break with time to do whatever you want. And counseling couldn't hurt either.
> 
> Perhaps the reason moms get burned out is that they can't reach out for help without being acused of not "doing it right".


You said it. I am so sick of some of the women over here and the all or nothing attitude. I am over it., The OP is clearly tired, clearly burnt, clearly in need of some sort of change. You can be the most AP parent in the world and do it all and if you are unhappy and wanting to chuck it all you are doing no one any favors. Perhaps she needs a vacation, maybe she needs therapy, maybe she needs a major lifestyle change, maybe she needs a fewer minor lifestyle changes. This much is true she should be supported in making any changes that will lead to her being happier, because in the long run she will be a better mother, person, women,that way. I love my kids I would do anything for thier health and happiness, part of that is making sure I am also healthy and happy. OP I feel for you,I was there before I stepped back and reevaluated, I hope you are able to work your way through this and come out smiling. Getting a little help and taking a Little time for yourself does not make you a detached mother, but it may make you a happy women.


----------



## DariusMom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bohemian madre*
> 
> I am so sorry this is where you are today. My heart goes out to you. It sucks to feel this way however you diagnosis this!! I feel completely burned out as a mother too. To suggest that I stop mothering my children in the ways that I feel are most healthy (tandem nursing, cloth diapering, homeschooling, co-sleeping) is intolerable. *I want support to mother this way - not told to do it differently. I want our culture to support mothers.* I would actually get tax credits if I send them away to daycare! I am burned out and don't have my needs met because it is impossible to meet the needs of an attached family in a nuclear family structure. I feel angry that the only way to keep going is for me to either dig a little deeper and give more or compromise my children's current and future health and happiness. What kind of world is this that I have to fight to mother my children in an attached way - where there is little to no support to mother my children?


How? I'm really curious. In what way could you receive the support you feel you need? Do you want the government (as depicted on MDC as that big ole evil institution that sends CPS to steal kids) to . .. set up a commune? The way I see it, you have total freedom to mother how you want to and you've chosen a way that is, by your own admission, burning you out. What is it you want other people to do for you?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thinkingmom*
> 
> The current culture we are in has a lot to do with burning AP moms out. The point was made that if you choose to homeschool, then you choose to tax the nuclear family. Why is that? Because we live in a culture where we have lots of support and help for being detached parents. We can have others watch our kids (public school, daycare, etc) others grow and cook our foods, etc... Choosing to grow our own foods and cooking "taxes" the family! Because no one is supporting a lifestyle where we all do it "right". I don't think it is right that in order to keep my sanity I have to wean off my kids and choose not to homeschool and that I need a therapist and a massage to be normal! What is this life for anyways? It just might be that if we lived in a different way, with real support or real community then we would be healthier without the need for "me" time. Here's the reality - mom is home trying to meet the needs of kids and herself and husband, and basically she can't so someone or everyone is getting run down. In one possible ideal case - 2 or three moms get together with their kids of various ages, they all do some schooling or unschooling or whatever in the morning (crafting, gardening, preschooling, doing science, whatever) and then some enjoy chatting while cooking while others (maybe younger kids) are playing outside (all close by and watched) while laundry is getting done as well. Then everyone eats together and they go home for naps! Another possibility - A mom lives in a neighborhood or group (intentional community) where others are all living similarly, there we again find that the people meet on a daily basis for love, work, support, and companionship. They grow foods and cook them (working together and separate/dividing and sharing responsibilities). Anyway, possibilities are endless! Here is a link of a more detailed and realistic example of this real "support" or community I am talking about.
> 
> http://www.continuum-concept.org/reading/finding-your-tribe.html
> 
> Also, my friend and I, in our attempts to both not go crazy and to not give up our ideals, have created a big tent group called Prelude to Community. There we talk about how we aren't getting our needs met - because sometimes you do need a place to say that - as well as having the larger goal of hoping to one day get ourselves in a real community or support network situation where we can end this problem of AP burnout and lack of support in a detached world. If anyone is interested, feel free to join the group - it is open to all.


AP moms have a lot to do with burning themselves out! I don't really see that some vague, undefined "culture" has much to do with it! What also burns out aspiring AP moms is statements such as your above that not homeschooling, not raising your own food, and weaning your child at some point are not "doing it right."

Kudos to you for setting up your group and working towards creating the sort of community you would like to have! You have total freedom to set up an intentional community. Our culture allows for that.

I do think there's a lot of romanticizing of some noble savage tribal culture somewhere out there where everything is wonderful and AP. The problem with that, as Storm Bride points out, is that such a culture (even if it existed as we imagine it) rarely allowed for individual choice and freedom. You did it the culture's way or you were more or less out. I don't think many of us want to go back to that sort of system. And don't even get me started about how tandem nursing really isn't that "natural" except for twins. And how many tribal cultures practice infanticide. And so on and so forth.


----------



## stik

I just wanted to add my support for tho OP to everyone else's. Sometimes everything is overwhelming and exhausting, especially when we're trying to live a very demanding set of ideals.

IMO, cut yourself the breaks you can and be really kind to yourself.

I also wanted to share my personal experience a little. As my younger dd neared her third birthday and my family dealt with some very difficult situations, I realized that my commitment to cloth diapering was adding a lot of stress to my life. I switched to disposables. The decrease in laundry and the fact that her butt didn't burst into flames both amazed me and I had more time for other things, including attachment.

As it's summer, there are some pretty good opportunities for a little break. There are teens looking for work who can clean and babysit. If your kids are old enough, there is Vacation Bible School. Taking care of yourself will pay off in so many ways.


----------



## hildare

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *choli*
> 
> She has childcare, it's called a husband. OP, take off for a weekend and leave the kids with your husband. It will do him good what it entails to deal with them, and will do you good to have a break.


not necessarily. some mamas might benefit from spending time alone with a dh, you know.

op, sorry you are feeling this way! is today better? can you have someone-- trade with another mama, hire somebody, have even a neighborhood mama's helper teenager come while you're home and give you a good break? let you take a bath and have some tea (or a drink?)


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## Lisa1970

I have felt this way sometimes too. ((((hugs)))) I hope you are feeling better today.


----------



## CI Mama

OP, I am sorry you are having such a rough time. It takes courage to admit that you're fried & to ask for help.

Can you give us a quick update and let us know how you are faring? I am concerned that we haven't heard from you.


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## purplerose

It is most unhelpful to be told to stop homeschooling or breastfeeding when you suffer from depression. BTDT. I was part of a "homeschooling moms with depression" group and we dealt constantly with people telling us it would be better to stop homeschooling and go to work and get a life. It actually makes many mom's anxiety worse. The majority of those moms on our group who had tried to stop homeschooling, it made them suffer more from their depression because they had added more stress to their lives, both of school AND of doing something against their beliefs. If a parent is using public school, formula feeding, works full time, gets alone time every day, and is still depressed, what would you tell that parent?


----------



## firewoman

To the OP: I want you to know that you are not the first and certainly won't be the last to feel this way. I think we have all been there. No one can fully understand what it means to be a wife and mother except for those of us that are doing it.

I think what many of the PP have said is right. It is important for you to have some time for yourself and believe me I know how hard won that time can be. I could take more time for myself than I do but I tend to find things that need to be done at home instead of going out with a friend or just going over to a friend's house without kids. Much of the pressure we feel, we place on ourselves.

Taking care of a family is so much work and requires sacrifices but please make sure not to sacrifice too much. Have you ever heard the old adage "If mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy."? I believe it holds very true. Right now I think it is time for you to take and figure how to get a sense of yourself back. Please let us know how you are doing and know that we are here for you. I completely understand where you are coming from.


----------



## ameliabedelia

Quote:


> How? I'm really curious. In what way could you receive the support you feel you need? Do you want the government (as depicted on MDC as that big ole evil institution that sends CPS to steal kids) to . .. set up a commune? The way I see it, you have total freedom to mother how you want to and you've chosen a way that is, by your own admission, burning you out. What is it you want other people to do for you?


Well, I'm not the person you are asking this of, but for starters I would say that society could recognize the intrinsic value of mothering and of children. Let's face it, our society really doesn't value mothering nor does it value children Society doesn't value any job that doesn't involve a paycheck.. Perhaps if the OP felt her contributions to society were just as important and valuable as other people's (as they are). Perhaps if society didn't see children as a burden, but rather as a blessing. Sometimes all it takes is for someone to feel that they valuable and contributing to society in a meaningful way. Perhaps if our lives were structured so a mother could go out in the world and learn new thing, interact with other people in a meaningful way, etc. WITHOUT feeling like she has to leave her young, breastfeeding infant behind. La Leche League is really one of the only organizations (that I know of) that views nursing mothers as people able to both care for their babies AND help others/learn new things, interact, etc. I LOVE La Leche Conferences for this reason..moms with nursing babies can attend very academic and interesting seminars WHILE keeping their nursling with them. I wish the rest of society was set up like this, that nursing babies were more welcomed at places, allowing new moms to expand their horizons and receive further education without the need to leave a nursling behind

Our society is set up so there is huge dichotomy between activities/places/events for kids and those for adults..and never the two shall meet. I think that contributes A LOT to burn-out. There is always this dichotomy. Either you are meeting the needs of the children or you are "taking time for yourself". There ARE ways to work-out and exercise and learn new things and interact with other adults in a meaningful way WHILE taking care of your kids. But, as a society, that isn't the norm.

The two major things that help my sanity and keep me from feeling burned out are 1) regular exercise and time outdoors 2) interacting with other adults and moms on a very regular basis (as least several times a week). As long as I get those two things, I am can avoid burn-out. I'm able to both of them without leaving my kids. I do leave them, but I don't need to, to get those needs met. I do go out on mom's night out, etc. but those are just fun for me, not a "sanity-saver" My sanity saver is things like meeting friends at the playground/beach/pool or talking with neighbors outside while our kids play.


----------



## chaoticzenmom

OP, looking into your other posts, it seems that you do have a lot going on. At least 3 children, oldest 5yrs old, youngest 6 months, change in diet, etc. I seriously think a trip to a doctor to run some tests would do wonders. It's very common to have post-partem thyroiditis or PPD at this stage and with the ages of your older children, it would be too much to handle a medical condition that takes away all of your energy and all that you're doing. I don't know what you have in the way of insurance, but you can get your thyroid checked, dr. visit, labs and medicine for under 200 dollars. You mentioned having a hard-time losing weight (another sign of thyroid issues).

I also want to 2nd, 3rd, 4th, that there is no "right" way to live. You really have to do what works for you. There's so much in the world that we can find to fear and so much that we'd like to avoid and so many ideals that we'd like to live up to. We can't do it all. We can find a way to keep our self, marraige and family from crumbling needlessly. Making sure that this isn't a medical issue is what I'd do first. If you're perfectly healthy, then look into depression and how to treat that. You really need to make some calls and find out what's available for you.

How are you doing today?


----------



## Alyantavid

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ameliabedelia*
> 
> La Leche League is really one of the only organizations (that I know of) that views nursing mothers as people able to both care for their babies AND help others/learn new things, interact, etc. I LOVE La Leche Conferences for this reason..moms with nursing babies can attend very academic and interesting seminars WHILE keeping their nursling with them. I wish the rest of society was set up like this, that nursing babies were more welcomed at places, allowing new moms to expand their horizons and receive further education without the need to leave a nursling behind
> 
> Our society is set up so there is huge dichotomy between activities/places/events for kids and those for adults..and never the two shall meet. I think that contributes A LOT to burn-out. There is always this dichotomy. Either you are meeting the needs of the children or you are "taking time for yourself". There ARE ways to work-out and exercise and learn new things and interact with other adults in a meaningful way WHILE taking care of your kids. But, as a society, that isn't the norm.
> 
> The two major things that help my sanity and keep me from feeling burned out are 1) regular exercise and time outdoors 2) interacting with other adults and moms on a very regular basis (as least several times a week). As long as I get those two things, I am can avoid burn-out. I'm able to both of them without leaving my kids. I do leave them, but I don't need to, to get those needs met. I do go out on mom's night out, etc. but those are just fun for me, not a "sanity-saver" My sanity saver is things like meeting friends at the playground/beach/pool or talking with neighbors outside while our kids play.


I never attended a LLL anything. Here, they ONLY meet at 10 am on weekday mornings. Pretty much excludes working mothers, many of whom could benefit a ton from a LLL group.

There is nothing wrong with a mom needing time away from her kids. Nothing at all. If you don't need that, wonderful. But don't look down on moms that do. My dh works away from home all week. Almost every Saturday afternoon, my mom takes my youngest son on an adventure. Does that make me less of an AP parent? Not at all, it strengthens his "village" and lets both of us take a break so when we are together again, neither of us are frustrated with the other. And believe me, that kid is as attached as he can possibly be. Allowing your kid to be around other people (and getting a break for you at the same time) doesn't make you a detached parent, it makes you a realistic one that would rather do that, than snap and take it out on the kids. AP doesn't equal martyr.

Obviously something isn't working for the op. Instead of posting that it's culture's fault and mom's aren't doing it right if they succumb to "culture", maybe it would be more helpful to give her permission to let some things go, to tell her it's ok to take some time from her kids.


----------



## DariusMom

I don't necessarily disagree with you. I think society should be more child-friendly, too! However, I think that, while it's nice to vent about how our society is structured (and even to be activists to change it!), it's not particularly helpful to a mom who sounds desperate to say, "Yeah, you're burned out and it's society's fault." I think it's a separate and important conversation to have.

At the moment, though, something isn't working for the OP. And it could be that, in the best of all possible worlds, the OP would be fine because there'd be an intentional community for her to rely on and lots of understanding of moms with small children and we'd all be eating organic, wearing socks made from goat hair that we spun ourselves, while munching on our homegrown organic veggies. But that's not the world the OP seems to be living in. So what concrete things can the OP do to make her situation better?

Is she depressed or are there other physical issues going on?

Does she need more help from her DH/DP?

Does she need to quit tandem nursing or make other changes to lighten her burden?

Does she need more outside help?

All of the above?

Desperate times call for desperate measures. The OP sounds desperate to me. Pie in the sky rants about society don't seem like enough to me.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ameliabedelia*
> 
> Well, I'm not the person you are asking this of, but for starters I would say that society could recognize the intrinsic value of mothering and of children. Let's face it, our society really doesn't value mothering nor does it value children Society doesn't value any job that doesn't involve a paycheck.. Perhaps if the OP felt her contributions to society were just as important and valuable as other people's (as they are). Perhaps if society didn't see children as a burden, but rather as a blessing. Sometimes all it takes is for someone to feel that they valuable and contributing to society in a meaningful way. Perhaps if our lives were structured so a mother could go out in the world and learn new thing, interact with other people in a meaningful way, etc. WITHOUT feeling like she has to leave her young, breastfeeding infant behind. La Leche League is really one of the only organizations (that I know of) that views nursing mothers as people able to both care for their babies AND help others/learn new things, interact, etc. I LOVE La Leche Conferences for this reason..moms with nursing babies can attend very academic and interesting seminars WHILE keeping their nursling with them. I wish the rest of society was set up like this, that nursing babies were more welcomed at places, allowing new moms to expand their horizons and receive further education without the need to leave a nursling behind
> 
> Our society is set up so there is huge dichotomy between activities/places/events for kids and those for adults..and never the two shall meet. I think that contributes A LOT to burn-out. There is always this dichotomy. Either you are meeting the needs of the children or you are "taking time for yourself". There ARE ways to work-out and exercise and learn new things and interact with other adults in a meaningful way WHILE taking care of your kids. But, as a society, that isn't the norm.
> 
> The two major things that help my sanity and keep me from feeling burned out are 1) regular exercise and time outdoors 2) interacting with other adults and moms on a very regular basis (as least several times a week). As long as I get those two things, I am can avoid burn-out. I'm able to both of them without leaving my kids. I do leave them, but I don't need to, to get those needs met. I do go out on mom's night out, etc. but those are just fun for me, not a "sanity-saver" My sanity saver is things like meeting friends at the playground/beach/pool or talking with neighbors outside while our kids play.


----------



## DariusMom

Amen. Though some might say you're not "doing it right"!









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alyantavid*
> 
> I never attended a LLL anything. Here, they ONLY meet at 10 am on weekday mornings. Pretty much excludes working mothers, many of whom could benefit a ton from a LLL group.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with a mom needing time away from her kids. Nothing at all. If you don't need that, wonderful. But don't look down on moms that do. My dh works away from home all week. Almost every Saturday afternoon, my mom takes my youngest son on an adventure. Does that make me less of an AP parent? Not at all, it strengthens his "village" and lets both of us take a break so when we are together again, neither of us are frustrated with the other. And believe me, that kid is as attached as he can possibly be. Allowing your kid to be around other people (and getting a break for you at the same time) doesn't make you a detached parent, it makes you a realistic one that would rather do that, than snap and take it out on the kids. AP doesn't equal martyr.
> 
> Obviously something isn't working for the op. Instead of posting that it's culture's fault and mom's aren't doing it right if they succumb to "culture", maybe it would be more helpful to give her permission to let some things go, to tell her it's ok to take some time from her kids.


----------



## Alyantavid

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DariusMom*
> 
> Amen. Though some might say you're not "doing it right"!


Well I've certainly heard that before!


----------



## GuildJenn

Funny Face,

What your kids want and need is... YOU.

That's it. That's what AP is about: A relationship. It is not about cloth diapering, homeschooling, or tandem nursing. It is about you and them, loving each other.

How you give them that -- and find yourself -- is so individual. Here's my thing: I arranged my life, pre-kids, so that I would be able to freelance from home. I hated it. I felt like I was never working enough and never parenting enough. I went back to work full time. I chose a Montessori for my son. I got myself back. We have a great relationship. This is probably not your path, but I promise you that as strange as it sounds, going back to work and finding a great little Montessori community for my son...was what preserved our attachment.

I agree with those who have said please start with enough help to get a nap - it's a great start.


----------



## Storm Bride

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purplerose*
> 
> It is most unhelpful to be told to stop homeschooling or breastfeeding when you suffer from depression. BTDT. I was part of a "homeschooling moms with depression" group and we dealt constantly with people telling us it would be better to stop homeschooling and go to work and get a life. It actually makes many mom's anxiety worse. The majority of those moms on our group who had tried to stop homeschooling, it made them suffer more from their depression because they had added more stress to their lives, both of school AND of doing something against their beliefs. If a parent is using public school, formula feeding, works full time, gets alone time every day, and is still depressed, what would you tell that parent?


This is probably all true. However, we don't know that the OP is depressed. She sounds more burned out than depressed to me (although I'm certainly not saying she isn't depressed - just that we don't know). The thing that stood out most to me in the OP was that she feels as though she's constantly meeting everyone else's needs and none of her own. That, to me, sounds like burn out. IMO and ime, the only ways to cope with that are 1) wait and see if it improves as the kids get older, which is a rough ride until and unless thigs improve, or 2) find some way to make changes, so that the stress isn't as constant. In OP's situation, that could mean weaning her older child, switching to disposable diapers (if that's less work for her - I find it six of one and half a dozen of the other, myself), consider public school, or a part-time daycare/preschool situation (ds2 was in preschool three mornings a week for a year, just so that I could have some time with dd1 without constant interruptions and chaos), or simply claiming a certain period of time (even 20-30 minutes) most days that are just for her - have a warm, relaxing bath, do some yoga, go for a walk, read a chapter or two...whatever she needs to do for herself.

If it's depression, the equation changes in some ways. But, it may not be.


----------



## marinak1977

OP, I couldn't read and not post. I'm sending you hugs and support. I hope you can talk to people around you and arrange some kind of support net so that you can get a break. You need to refill your cup too. That will make things better for everyone in your family, not just you.


----------



## Drummer's Wife

Thinking about you, OP. Many of us have felt similar to you, so we understand. I hope things get better for you asap.


----------



## minkin03

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> May be it's time to redefine "being a good mother."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know anything about you but what is on your signature -- you homeschool, tandum nurse, and use cloth diapers. You don't have to. You can make different choices and make time for yourself in your life. Being a mother doesn't mean that every single minute of the day and night HAS to be about someone else. It is possible to be a good mother and have balance in your life.


Couldn't agree more! Sounds like you need a break and there's nothing wrong with that. We're moms, not superwomen. ((((HUGS))))


----------



## Funny Face

Thank you all for your kind replies, hugs and thoughts. I've been trying to get back to post but don't have free hands often.

I'll start by saying I've got an appt for counseling tomorrow night. I'm hoping it is a good fit.

I'm most frustrated that I try to balance everything and make sure I get some 'me time' but it just never. works. out.

Like someone posted, I don't think giving up any of the 'extra' things I do would necessarily help. They are some of the things about mothering that make me feel like I'm part of the equation. Like I'm allowed to choose a little bit what being a parent is like for me. At times I've cut back on some of those things but I feel a little bit more at peace when I actually find a way to do the things I feel convicted to do. The hard part is not having any support in doing them. I think I would feel even more hopeless if I gave up on some of the things that matter to me.

My kids are 5, 2 and 6mo. I day dream sometimes about taking dd to school next year but I know that isn't the answer either because having a kid in school is hard work too!

I absolutely feel sometimes like life is just impossible. My dh is depressed and isn't taking any steps to get better. It means that all of his lack of energy ends up falling on me to make up for it. It's been 6 years of trying to keep afloat.

I'm COMPLETELY overwhelmed. Every day feels like a race, a marathon.

Wanted to say more but baby is crying, again.


----------



## Linda on the move

I think that allowing one's mind to open to new possibilities when one is unhappy and feels trapped can be VERY helpful. None of us knows the OPer well enough to know exactly what new possibilities make the most sense for her right now. I think we all agree that finding some time for herself would be moving in the right direction, but exactly how that plays out for different moms is very different.

It's really not about homeschooling vs. school, that's a side issue and most likely not a debate that is helpful to the OPer. Rather, the questions could be:

"Where can I let go?"

"Whom can I ask for help?"

"What would give me a feeling of relief right now?"

Many of us have gone through emotionally difficult times as moms, and we've found some of the same solutions (such has making our own needs a priority) and some different solutions (trading childcare with a friend vs preschool vs yoga class vs telling our DH's it's time to step up to the plate vs ________________________) The options are truly limitless.

Rather than getting hung up what options are *right* or *wrong,* let's focus on what has worked for us without judging what has worked for others.

Peace


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## Linda on the move

We double posted and I wanted to send you a hug.







Part of it truly is the age of your kids. Part of this really will get easier with time.

I hope your appointment goes really well.


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## ameliabedelia

Quote:


> There is nothing wrong with a mom needing time away from her kids. Nothing at all. If you don't need that, wonderful. But don't look down on moms that do. My dh works away from home all week. Almost every Saturday afternoon, my mom takes my youngest son on an adventure. Does that make me less of an AP parent? Not at all, it strengthens his "village" and lets both of us take a break so when we are together again, neither of us are frustrated with the other. And believe me, that kid is as attached as he can possibly be. Allowing your kid to be around other people (and getting a break for you at the same time) doesn't make you a detached parent, it makes you a realistic one that would rather do that, than snap and take it out on the kids. AP doesn't equal martyr.
> 
> Obviously something isn't working for the op. Instead of posting that it's culture's fault and mom's aren't doing it right if they succumb to "culture", maybe it would be more helpful to give her permission to let some things go, to tell her it's ok to take some time from her kids.


I never said there was. I get away from my kids quite a lot However, for me, 4 hours a week away from my kids is not enough. I have MORE needs than that. I have had to find ways to meet MY needs AND those of my kids at the same time. There is nothing wrong if someone is totally happy with getting away from their kids once a week. I need more than that. I need to find ways to stimulate my mind, exercise my body and interact with other adults on a daily, or even multiple-times a day basis. *For me* getting away from my kids once a week would not do that for me. All I'm saying it doesn't have to be either or...as in either i'm meeting my needs OR that of my kids. I can meet MY need for stimulating reading WHILE nursing a baby. I can meet MY needs for exercise WHILE pushing a toddler in a stroller or doing a workout video at home while kids nap. I can meet MY needs to for creative outlet (in my case baking, blogging and writing) while my kids play around the house. I can meet MY needs for social time while our kids play at the playground. Again, I have nothing against leaving my kids. I leave mine quite a lot. But I need MORE than just what I get from leaving my kids a few hours a week. I need to find ways to meet my needs and those of my kids at the same time. And, ALL I am saying is that it IS possible. Yes, getting away from kids is great and can help. Trust, me I am NOT a martyr...very far from it. I have always encouraged my children to learn to play independently and entertain themselves. I encourage my older child to help her siblings, I teach my kids from a young age to clean up after themselves.. I teach my kids to not bother me when I am working out (granted that doesn't work so well with a baby, but the 6-yo can certainly learn that and the 2-you can to a degree as well).

Quote:


> I think that, while it's nice to vent about how our society is structured (and even to be activists to change it!), it's not particularly helpful to a mom who sounds desperate to say,


Maybe it is.

The OP just posted:

Quote:


> The hard part is not having any support in doing them. I think I would feel even more hopeless if I gave up on some of the things that matter to me.


Maybe what she needs is to hear that what she is doing is VALUABLE and IMPORTANT and WORTHWHILE...because society sure isn't telling her that. And, apparently neither are the people on this thread. The OP obviously believes in homeschooling and tandem nursing and clothing diapers, if she does them. It's not helpful to say, oh "those things are too time-consuming, too hard, you're burnt-out, put the kid in school, wean the 2-yo old and use disposables." That would be going against the things SHE feels are important and valuable TO HER. Maybe having someone else say "yes, those things are important, yes, the contributions to your child's education you are making ARE worthwhile, yes the sacrifices you make ARE valuable, you are a worthy, valuable, contributor to society by being a SAH, homeschooling, tandem nursing, cloth diapering mom" would be helpful. Maybe some encouragement to stick with where she is (along with making small changes to make things easier, perhaps get more time to herself, get her husband to help more, etc.) would be more helpful than suggesting she is burnt-out and needs to throw away everything she feels is valuable. Because, that is what society is saying. Society says you aren't worthwhile unless you bring home a paycheck. Society says that a certified teacher who brings home a paycheck is better able to educate her child than SHE is. Sometimes it can be really hard to go against society, to realize that you aren't alone, and that other people believe in the same things and that the work you do (even if not paid or appreciated) IS valuable and worthwhile work.

OP...what type of support DO you have. Have you joined homeschool groups? Made friends with other homeschoolers? Know other moms who tandem nurse (maybe through LLL)? These types of support, of being with other people who believe in the same things can help a lot.


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## DariusMom

oh come on . . . no one is telling her what she's doing isn't valuable! People are offering *concrete* suggestions based on what she posted and based on their own experiences. These suggestions may or may not resonate with the OP and she can take or leave them. But not one person has said that what she's doing isn't valuable or important or worthwhile. What people are saying is that when a person is desperate enough to post that she wishes she weren't a wife or mother anymore, that something has to change. Moreover, people are saying that, as nice as it would be for society to change in all sorts of intrinsic ways to value her tandem nursing and cloth-diapering, that ain't gonna' happen anytime soon. Therefore, what *can* she do *now* to help resolve a desperate situation? thus far, I've yet to read what concrete solutions you're suggesting? (other than offering yourself up as a paragon of attachment parenting. . .. . )

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ameliabedelia*
> 
> Maybe what she needs is to hear that what she is doing is VALUABLE and IMPORTANT and WORTHWHILE...*because society sure isn't telling her that. And, apparently neither are the people on this thread. * The OP obviously believes in homeschooling and tandem nursing and clothing diapers, if she does them. It's not helpful to say, oh "those things are too time-consuming, too hard, you're burnt-out, put the kid in school, wean the 2-yo old and use disposables." That would be going against the things SHE feels are important and valuable TO HER. Maybe having someone else say "yes, those things are important, yes, the contributions to your child's education you are making ARE worthwhile, yes the sacrifices you make ARE valuable, you are a worthy, valuable, contributor to society by being a SAH, homeschooling, tandem nursing, cloth diapering mom" would be helpful. Maybe some encouragement to stick with where she is (along with making small changes to make things easier, perhaps get more time to herself, get her husband to help more, etc.) would be more helpful than suggesting she is burnt-out and needs to throw away everything she feels is valuable. Because, that is what society is saying. Society says you aren't worthwhile unless you bring home a paycheck. Society says that a certified teacher who brings home a paycheck is better able to educate her child than SHE is. Sometimes it can be really hard to go against society, to realize that you aren't alone, and that other people believe in the same things and that the work you do (even if not paid or appreciated) IS valuable and worthwhile work.


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## APToddlerMama

Funny Face--I am sorry you are feeling this way. I think most of us go through periods of time where we can relate in one way or another. So glad to hear you are taking care of yourself by heading to the counselor. What about your DH? It sounds like he needs to own his issues with depression and get some help too. It must be a lot of work without another person able to help you out.


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## puddle

OP--I haven't read all the replies so I don't know if this was mentioned, but I think I noticed in another recent thread that you just made some major dietary chances recently? I don't know how long you've been feeling this way, but I know diet changes can really affect the way you feel while your body adjusts. Just thought I'd throw that out there as something else to possibly explore.


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## purplerose

Funny Face- I homeschool also, and when #3 was a tiny baby my dh went through a depression. And he worked 2nd shift. It was horrible for me, I felt totally alone. Also we were broke, with one car, and I was stuck at home. #3 was a high-needs baby. I was SO ANGRY at dh for being depressed, why didn't he pull out of it like I always did? Why did he have to sleep all the damn time when he wasn't working? Why wouldn't he get up and help with the kids? And why wouldn't he go get help? Of course I was in my own depression(which was I think a combination of ppd and having a high needs baby, it was all hard to handle for me). And we had just moved, and dh started a new job. At the time it was so overwhelming I wanted to beat everyone and leave forever. There were so many factors affecting us both and neither one of us I guess worried about pulling the other through it. We both eventually did come out ok and now 8 years later things are perfect between us(except now we have 2 teenagers, gah!!) But I do look back on those months as being dark. It was just a dark time in my life.

I never did stop homeschooling, or breastfeeding, I remember being told to stop and get a job. The idea of that made me feel sick. Maybe I'd have gotten used to it, I don't know. But it got bad enough that I searched yahoo groups for "depression" + "homeschool" and found a wonderful group of moms. I don't know if it's still there, but if not there should be others.

As my kids all got older, I felt freer and freer. My youngest became less attached and I was able to go out with friends. Dh came out of his depression somehow and things got better, we grew up more. I have a feeling his experience showed him what I went through with depression and he seemed to be more understanding. Has this been a longer-term depression with your husband?

Whatever the case, I hope you find some relief soon. I am lucky that my two best friends studying psychology in college. That helps so much. If you feel like it, I'd like to hear how you're doing after counseling. Feel free to private message me also.


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## ameliabedelia

Quote:


> Therefore, what *can* she do *now* to help resolve a desperate situation? thus far, I've yet to read what concrete solutions you're suggesting? (other than offering yourself up as a paragon of attachment parenting. . .. . )


Huh...I never once said I was a paragon of attachment parenting??. In fact, I said repeatedly that I leave my kids quite often. And, I teach them to be independent and help out so it's not all on me to entertain them and do everything for them. All of which probably makes me "less AP" in some people's minds. I don't spend hours a day reading stories or playing with my kids. I let them entertain themselves a lot, even from a younger age.

Fine..you want concrete examples of things I've done to do when I was burnt out or at the end of my rope.

1) put a movie on for the older 2 and take a nap with the baby.

2) put the 2 little ones in a double stroller and take a walk with the older one riding a bike

3) Leave the 6-yo with a neighbor, friend/etc. and take a walk with the younger 2 in a stroller (probably more relaxing than number 2).

4) Take a moment when the kids are playing together nicely to blog or journal.

5) Meet friends at a safe, toddler-friendly park, sit on a grassy shady area and chill and talk for a couple of hours while the 6 yo and 2 yo play

6) Call a friend, and teach your kids not to bother you when on the phone.

7) Pay the 6-yo to play with the 2-yo and entertain him/her and read a book, watch a movie, knit, crochet, whatever you like

8) Hire a mother's helper to help clean or watch the kids while you clean (ok, so I've never done this, but it can work).

9) Leave the older 2 at home and take the baby to a coffee shop or park and sit and read and sip a coffee/tea/etc.

All I'm saying is that every second of every day doesn't have to be all about the kids..even when you are WITH the kids. And, that probably makes me much less of a paragon of AP than most others on this board.


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## bohemian madre

I am glad that lack of support isn't an issue for you. I was posting about me and my needs.


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## funkymamajoy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Funny Face*
> 
> Thank you all for your kind replies, hugs and thoughts. I've been trying to get back to post but don't have free hands often.
> 
> I'll start by saying I've got an appt for counseling tomorrow night. I'm hoping it is a good fit.
> 
> I'm most frustrated that I try to balance everything and make sure I get some 'me time' but it just never. works. out.
> 
> *Like someone posted, I don't think giving up any of the 'extra' things I do would necessarily help. They are some of the things about mothering that make me feel like I'm part of the equation. Like I'm allowed to choose a little bit what being a parent is like for me. At times I've cut back on some of those things but I feel a little bit more at peace when I actually find a way to do the things I feel convicted to do. The hard part is not having any support in doing them. I think I would feel even more hopeless if I gave up on some of the things that matter to me.*
> 
> My kids are 5, 2 and 6mo. I day dream sometimes about taking dd to school next year but I know that isn't the answer either because having a kid in school is hard work too!
> 
> I absolutely feel sometimes like life is just impossible. My dh is depressed and isn't taking any steps to get better. It means that all of his lack of energy ends up falling on me to make up for it. It's been 6 years of trying to keep afloat.
> 
> I'm COMPLETELY overwhelmed. Every day feels like a race, a marathon.
> 
> Wanted to say more but baby is crying, again.


I don't think anyone was trying to say that you should give those things up, but that you can if you want to. Sometimes, our choices can begin to feel like obligations and giving ourselves permission to make other choices can help us realize what is or isn't really important.

And good luck tonight.


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## texmati

big hug!!! i feel like that sometimes too. Tell me it's not just us!


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## t2009

Really sorry you're going through this difficult time. I hope that your appointment went well tonight... counseling can provide a lot of insight & power to make needed changes.


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## MamaMunchkin

quote doesn't work for me ...

*I'll start by saying I've got an appt for counseling tomorrow night. I'm hoping it is a good fit.*

Good luck with the appointment - it's a great idea.

*I'm most frustrated that I try to balance everything and make sure I get some 'me time' but it just never. works. out. *

This may be the first problem you can try to solve with the help of a counselor, how to get some time for yourself - it sounds like you really need it. For now and in the long run.

*Like someone posted, I don't think giving up any of the 'extra' things I do would necessarily help. They are some of the things about mothering that make me feel like I'm part of the equation. Like I'm allowed to choose a little bit what being a parent is like for me. At times I've cut back on some of those things but I feel a little bit more at peace when I actually find a way to do the things I feel convicted to do. The hard part is not having any support in doing them. I think I would feel even more hopeless if I gave up on some of the things that matter to me.*

I know what you mean. If and when you're ready to compromise or give up on anything, you'll - know - it.

*My kids are 5, 2 and 6mo. I day dream sometimes about taking dd to school next year but I know that isn't the answer either because having a kid in school is hard work too! *

You're right, it can be hard work too even once the kid is in school. But if I were you, I'd entertain the idea a little longer. Sometimes, the school have a parent orientation for incoming students - perhaps you can attend just to check things out? You don't have to decide anything.

*I absolutely feel sometimes like life is just impossible. My dh is depressed and isn't taking any steps to get better. It means that all of his lack of energy ends up falling on me to make up for it. It's been 6 years of trying to keep afloat.*

Oh, dear, I'm so sorry







I don't know what to tell you - that'd be hard for a spouse even without any children.

*I'm COMPLETELY overwhelmed. Every day feels like a race, a marathon.*

You'll figure it out, take it one baby step at a time - don't forget we're here, use the online support here.


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## Subhuti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DariusMom*
> 
> oh come on . . . no one is telling her what she's doing isn't valuable! People are offering *concrete* suggestions based on what she posted and based on their own experiences. These suggestions may or may not resonate with the OP and she can take or leave them. But not one person has said that what she's doing isn't valuable or important or worthwhile. What people are saying is that when a person is desperate enough to post that she wishes she weren't a wife or mother anymore, that something has to change. Moreover, people are saying that, as nice as it would be for society to change in all sorts of intrinsic ways to value her tandem nursing and cloth-diapering, that ain't gonna' happen anytime soon. Therefore, what *can* she do *now* to help resolve a desperate situation? thus far, I've yet to read what concrete solutions you're suggesting? (other than offering yourself up as a paragon of attachment parenting. . .. . )


Guys, please go back and read the OP's first post. Please stop bickering. Take it to PM. Let's concentrate on offering this mama some support. She doesn't need to have a debate break out on this thread.

Funny Face ....

I am so sorry about your husband. How well I know what that is like to have to "carry" someone who is depressed. It literally can kill all the life, energy and joy in your life. My DH is going thru a very stressful time job-wise right now. And he plummets and spirals down for several days a week. And I have to carry the entire family emotionally. Most especially him. It is so freaking draining. And this has been going on for about a year only.

I am not depressed, but I see how my husband's depressed moods completely drown away my joy ....

So just more hugs .... there is a lot of good advice here ... of women who have taken on a life like yours ... a life dedicated to your kids and an amazing lifestyle (one I didn' t have even half enough energy to do myself) .... I hope you find some answers and support here.

((((((((hug)))))))))


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## sunshinemum

just wanted to offer some hugs, I hope you get the help you need soon. Having a depressed husband on top of everything else must just be so hard.


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## Alenushka

Long terms, having parents who are not depressed and resentful of each other and the children, is more important to the children's future than all the cloth diapers, hours of homeschooling and tandem nursing put together. I am saying as person had a childhood with a depressed mother and as person who read studies on this subject.

I have a husband who had deep depression. It very very had to be married to someone ill. While society if very kind towards spouses who are caregiver to cancer victim...we do not have the same attitude about men tall illness.

I am so glad to hear you are seeing a counselor. Marriage counseling may also help

Depression can be very biochemical and can requires meds, It can be environmental and one simply needs to change eatery ones attitude toward the circumcise or one's circumstance. I hate my job and I have 2 choices: get another one or find something I like about my current job.

This is something you can explore with your therapist.

I hope you and your husband will get better.


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## DariusMom

You're absolutely right!









OP, I'm sorry things are so tough for you now. I'm glad you're getting counseling and I hope your DH can get some help, too. Hang in there.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Subhuti*
> 
> Guys, please go back and read the OP's first post. Please stop bickering. Take it to PM. Let's concentrate on offering this mama some support. She doesn't need to have a debate break out on this thread.


----------



## bobcat

I didn't have time to read any of the replies, so I hope I'm not saying anything that was already talked about..... (sorry if so).....

I have wondered what the solution would be if I eventually have those feelings, and I've wondered why some women seem to get "burnt out" more quickly than others. I think a lot of it lies in your hubby (talking generally, not yours specifically) and how often he does things that give you a break (whatever that might be).

So basically, if it isn't depression, I think what it comes down to is....support from the spouse. I do think that support isn't always easily gained (depending on your husband's disposition, habits, upbringing, etc). So what I'm going to say below is basically how things work for us. I consider myself lucky, that my spouse adapted pretty easily to taking care of me when I needed it, emotionally. If it doesn't come easy, it may take some conversations to get there (more on that below).

Anyways, I think it depends on the woman, what helps her feel "free" or better. First of all, my husband has figured out how to tell when I need help.....by seeing if I look/act exhausted and frustrated, or by just listening for me to tell him, "honey, I need ______." I don't use the word "need" lightly, so when I use it, he knows I mean it. About 20% of the time, he'll drop the ball and not help out when I use that word, but then I get upset, and he realizes quickly that he screwed up big time. (yes, it sounds like I have him whipped, but it's moreso that we each try to step up to the plate and help the other person when we know they really need it. I do the same for him, so that is the key to this working).

In terms of what makes me happy and helps me (just as a point of reference): I hate to drive around here, though I do it sometimes. So for me, him going out and getting me whatever fruit smoothie I want from Whole Foods, then whatever chocolate bar I want, then just letting me veg in front of the TV and doing the dishes, is enough to "reset" me. Sometimes it takes a few days though, of him knowing I'm going through a rough time, and him just trying to get more done around the house for me. I don't ever need anything fancy, but just him driving somewhere to grab me whatever treat I want, often helps. But he will normally do this when I need it, be it once a month, or three times a month. I think that knowing I can lean on him, and just get a "free pass" for an hour, really helps.

It means a lot to me to know that if I ever get sick of being a housewife, he is there to prop me up until I'm enjoying myself again. (If you are depressed though, obviously it would take more than that.....you can't really lean on someone else to get through depression; it just doesn't work like that, and it will often make things worse because you then exhaust the people closest to you, in addition to your being "spent"). So back to him being there for me......I just can't imagine this "job" of being a housewife/mother without having your partner's support. I think that is basically the key.

Now, you catch more flies with honey than .....something bitter???? (forget the saying). Anyways, if you think this could just be a lack of support and not depression (but if it is depression, don't bother taking this route...) I would just tell your partner NICELY that you have been feeling really worn down by ......-either not focusing much on yourself/having downtime......or, -by not feeling like you have much support from him (and give practical examples of what he could be doing, like washing dishes every other night, cleaning the coffeemaker, listening more, voicing appreciation more, etc....since "support" is very vague and most people won't know what you want them to do). Basically, you want to come from a place of love and "I want to make this work for us", because adults don't like feeling like their spouse is ordering them around. So just saying, "please start doing X" is often not interpreted well. But basically, I do think it would be good for you to suggest ways that your spouse could be lifting you up. Figure out what you need, then (very respectfully) suggest/ask for it. I find that most rational, kind adults will try to help someone out when they realize it will make life in the home happier and smoother. And this job is too hard to do, without feeling like we are respected and our partners and kids will do things to appreciate Mom! Maybe your spouse could try getting your kids involved too, in special things to do for mom, to make her life/job/sanity better.

Sidenote: Be sure also that he feels HIS needs are being met (you may have to ask him this question). Because it can be pointless to ask someone to meet your needs, if you don't make sure theirs are being met. So if your requests for help aren't working, you may want to ask, "Do you feel I'm meeting your needs? Is there anything I can/should be doing differently?" I know this seems very ironic considering the original post here, but maybe he is acting out because he has "a bone to pick" about something, or is bitter about something, and that's why he isn't puling through and supporting you. So it's good to just be sure that isn't the case, if these "please help me" convos aren't getting you anywhere.

Sometimes the solution is just to show genuine care and interest for your spouse, and then all of a sudden, they start doing the same for you (then your job becomes easier). Sometimes I've noticed that if I do a small favor for my hubby that is unexepected, he'll often "return the favor" five-fold. Then before I know it, my life starts looking easier, because of a seed I planted. I know it sounds terribly ironic, but it is honestly what has worked for me. I don't have kids though, so I'm not sure how it factors in with children.

GOOD LUCK!!!! Blessings.......


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## bobcat

Also, one thing I've noticed helps me, is to think back to the last time I felt really good. (even if that was 10 years ago!) What kind of music was I listening to? What was I doing with my free time? What was I eating? Sometimes just simple "throwbacks" can change your attitude. Even though you are a wife and mommy now, it doesn't mean you can't do things that "scream" YOU. Like get back into an old hobby that made you happy, blast your favorite band from your speakers, etc. I know it sounds corny, but it does kinda work, from my experience.

It may be time to make some changes in your daily routines. Don't make any one thing in your life an "idol." Like I had to give up a few healthy habits, just to get my sanity back. But I am healhier now overall, because of it.

Some people will disagree with me on this......but if it's depression, I'd urge you to see a psychiatrist. It is amazing how an SSRI like Zoloft can bring a person back to their old self, in some cases. I think some of them can be taken while breastfeeding, but I'm not sure.

Then there are things like 5-HTP that are natural (I wouldn't combine it with meds, etc). If you go to iherb.com, there are often hundreds of reviews for products (the NOW brand is popular among reviewers, so I normally find lots of reviews under those). I have used those reviews to help me decide what to order, when no money was available to see a naturopath. On iherb.com, you can also just click on a health condition like "Depression" and they will give suggestions, then you can read the reviews. I do that a lot, on that site. Good luck.


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## Subhuti

Darius Mom ... I should have edited to ad... that I am sorry for singling you out . ... AND what you are discussing is valid ... but ... you get my point.  DM -- I love your posts and always enjoy what you have to say, BTW. 

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DariusMom*
> 
> You're absolutely right!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OP, I'm sorry things are so tough for you now. I'm glad you're getting counseling and I hope your DH can get some help, too. Hang in there.


----------



## cappuccinosmom

Quote:


> May be it's time to redefine "being a good mother."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know anything about you but what is on your signature -- you homeschool, tandum nurse, and use cloth diapers. You don't have to. You can make different choices and make time for yourself in your life. Being a mother doesn't mean that every single minute of the day and night HAS to be about someone else. It is possible to be a good mother and have balance in your life.


Agreed.

Redefine. Reframe.

And even if it's just for a few hours, put some distance between you and all the "stuff", have some fun, take a rest, eat something yummy, and give yourself the opportunity to have a different perspective.


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## purslaine

How are you doing today?

Sending a vibe and a prayer that you have clarity and peace.


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## Linda on the move

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Funny Face*
> 
> At times I've cut back on some of those things but I feel a little bit more at peace when I actually find a way to do the things I feel *convicted* to do.


It really stands out to me that the word you use to explain why you parent the way you do is the same word used for someone who is guilty of crime and will now be punished. The words we use the the way we think about things are EXTREMELY powerful. Without getting into *what* you are doing, I think it would be very freeing for you to re-frame your parenting in terms that are less about deserving and receiving punishment.

I also think that a lot of this thread has ended up being about parenting, but I think a huge chunk of the problem is your marriage. You might double post on parents as partners.


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## Vaske

You said some of this has been going on for six years....Leviticus 25 mentions the sabbatical year: a year of rest after six years of working. It sounds like you could really use this kind of rest. It's not easy to implement in our modern culture and economy--I've had to keep working at my "day job" during mine--but I pray that God will help you find your way to one soon.


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## Funny Face

I've been checking back in as I could and reading a few responses at a time. You all have given me a lot to think about. And mostly I wanted to say that I am so thankful to have somewhere safe where I can say such a taboo thing.

I'm going to try to answer some questions.

I did start eating vegan about 3-4 months ago. While I have felt this way longer than that, I might still go in for some blood work and a physical because a deficiency could certainly be contributing to how intense things feel for me now. I've had my thyroid checked in the past because of how tired and physically depressed I felt but everything was fine. I just needed rest and sleep, apparently.

My dh has been depressed since we married. It is easier to see in retrospect as he always had reasons he was depressed before. I've felt this overwhelming need to run away off and on for 2 years now but I was holding out hope that when he graduated from school we had a chance to make things better and that maybe I would have the support I needed from him. 6 months out now and things have not improved to the degree that I'd hoped. And he is still depressed and I realized, after writing my OP that he has never done anything to get help other than make excuses.

I've been enabling him by holding his life up for him and I'm going to have to stop. Hopefully counseling will help me with that. This counselor also does marriage counseling so that will help (though we've been in marriage counseling nearly half of our marriage).

I've kept saying I need help and support. I could not make it any clearer. But he either feels attacked that he's 'never good enough' or he makes promises he never keeps.

I finally called my mom and told her I needed help. I asked if I could pay her to watch the kids a few hours a week so I can clean the house. A trashed house is a huge anxiety trigger for me and being able to clean in peace and reap the benefits will do me some good.

Finances are hard right now. We are in debt and trying to pay it off while one thing after another comes up. I am solely responsible for finances and that is a huge stress right now too.

On top of that I have finally figured out that my dd has what is called a 'feeding disorder' and am finally seeking help. I thought all this time that if I just tried harder or tried another strategy that I could help her learn to like food. 5 years of feeding nightmares and I find out there is a name for such a thing. I feel TERRIBLE that I couldn't know this sooner but hopeful that there is help on the horizon.

If I think back to the last time I was REALLY happy it was when I was first married and dd was a baby. I've tried to remain positive since then and pull myself up by my bootstraps but it has been a constant struggle. I think I was happy then because I had one child who I felt capable of meeting her needs and looked forward to what life would bring for her. I was a SAHM going back to school and still thought that dh just needed more support and he would learn to enjoy life too.

Most of the time I think that if I could just eat a meal when I'm actually hungry, or call a friend without someone climbing on top of the fridge or plan an outing where I don't have to drag someone kicking and screaming back home that I could fair much better.

I also had this idea that if I parented my children with respect and gentleness that I would, over time, receive that back from them. That a non violent home would mean that I didn't have a 5 year old who kicked and spit at me and saw me as an ally instead of a big, fat meanie.

I resent that there are people out there in the world who work and are appreciated and valued and they get off work and ask themselves what they would like to eat for dinner, if they would like to take a bath or watch a movie and are then able to do those things.

And I work just as hard 24/7 and no one sees, no one cares. In fact my husband thinks our life is 'all about me' and that I am controlling and impossible to please.

I'm sorry I couldn't respond to each post individually, I would have liked too because there were so many good thoughts and good questions. I so appreciate all of your support.


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## LynnS6

Wow! What a lot of stressors in your life.

Hooray for you for calling your mom and asking for help. That's a huge step and it's often very hard to tell people close to you that you're not doing well and you need help. I totally understand about the messy house causing anxiety. If you can get a support network of people who can give you some help and some relief, that would be great. Just remember that until very recently, we lived in villages where we had a network of mothers, aunts, cousins, friends who could watch the kids for us and with us. The industrial revolution put an end to lots of that, but our biology still really would like that village.

I'm hoping the counselor can help you figure out what you need to do and how you can help reduce some of the stress in your life -- being the one who's in charge of finances, kids, the house, etc. is really really stressful. I wish there was an easy way to get your husband in for counseling/meds, but you can't fix him and you can't make him change.

How much of your dd's behavior do you think is due to her feeding disorder? If she's not eating or if eating is causing her pain/discomfort, then no, she may not respond to typical methods of discipline. I have a child with very mild special needs (sensory issues), and when he was younger, I kept wondering why on earth the techniques in the books didn't work for him. It's gotten much better as he's gotten older, but he's not a textbook child for some things. I guess my point is: Don't blame yourself for things not working. You're doing the best you can in a difficult situation -- a child with feeding issues, three kids under 5, the stress of school/money, a husband who's depressed. Any one of those can make discipline more difficult. (Yes, kids pick up on the fact that their parent is depressed, and yes, it stresses them out. My family of origin is a testament to that.)

It sounds like you're taking some positive concrete steps. Keep reminding yourself of the positive steps you've taken -- you've called your mom. You've figured out the feeding disorder. You've called for a counselor. Each one of those is a positive step. Give yourself a small pat on the back. (And a chocolate chip for each one, just to get those little happy chemicals going!)


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## swd12422

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Funny Face*
> 
> ...
> 
> I resent that there are people out there in the world who work and are appreciated and valued and they get off work and ask themselves what they would like to eat for dinner, if they would like to take a bath or watch a movie and are then able to do those things.
> 
> And I work just as hard 24/7 and no one sees, no one cares. In fact my husband thinks our life is 'all about me' and that I am controlling and impossible to please.
> 
> ...


O.M.G. This is so me. I used to get so angry and jealous when DH would be 20 minutes late from work b/c he stopped on the way home for a haircut. Or he'd walk in with a bag from the drugstore/grocery store with snacks he got during work or something he needed to pick up real quick. Nothing is "real quick" when you have little ones, except maybe your temper. I would be LIVID. And then I would get questioned on why the house was such a mess if I was actually here all day and had 9 hours to clean it up. And THEN he would go ahead and give the baby the one thing I had JUST cleaned up, only to have it a mess again. I seriously couldn't figure out how to keep from killing him, and he would start in on me for being a control freak b/c why can't he just give the baby that? (And yeah, I was a control freak. Now I just don't care...) I feel ya. I hope having your mom come will help. Don't forget to NAP -- don't just clean!


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## LROM

From what I've read in your posts, it sounds to me like you are at a stage now where you absolutely must focus on your own needs and your kids needs. Sometimes when we're as overwhelmed as you feel now, it's simply not possible to worry about what another adult is or isn't doing for themself and the family, you have to focus on YOU no matter what others have to say about it.

You are awesome and doing the right things by going to a counselor and asking your mom to watch the kids a bit so you can clean. Those are amazing first steps! Now it's about what you need to do to help yourself get a bit more rest, feel a bit more in control, and just feel a bit better. That may include asking your husband to take specific actions - like when you tell him you need more support, are you clear about what that looks like for you? In my opinion it would help you to think about specific steps your husband could take that would help you better manage what you have. Like do you need a standing 3 hour period on Saturdays where you need him to watch the kids while you do grocery shopping or take a walk or whatever you need for you? Can he take the kids to a playdate or a relative's while you do bills or things you need to do in the house? Being specific is important when talking to a spouse/partner about your needs.

And if he's unwilling or unable to take those steps, that's something you have to take into consideration as you get to figuring out what to do about your marriage.

It sounds like you already know your marriage isn't working, especially if your husband has issues he's not working on and only making excuses about. But when you feel as down and overwhelmed as you do, that's a hard perspective from which to make big decisions about what to do. Focus on your own wellbeing, don't feel selfish for a second! That will help you take better care of your kids and be better able to make good decisions about your relationship and life.

Also consider that if your kids feel off the chain/hard to handle, partly it's probably because of their ages, but also they are living in a household where their parents are struggling. That is hard for you, your husband, AND your kids. It's very possible that as you find ways to feel better and meet your own needs better, your kids may start to feel more manageable as well. There are so many pluses to identifying your specific needs and figuring out how to meet them.

You deserve to love your life... we all do. And you DO have power to make changes, but you've got to get on more stable ground and feel a bit healthier before you'll probably be able to see what to do.

Best of you luck, you are amazing for seeing that things are not working and seeking solutions. You'll be ok! Better than ok eventually!


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## Funny Face

Thank you.









I do think that my daughter is suffering anxiety and I have a feeling it is coming from us (her parents) and the fact we are stressed. She's like an animal to try to take care of right now. It makes me feel both angry and guilty. Angry that she is so unmanageable and guilty because it's my fault.

Life just continued to unravel today.

My car has been in the shop 3 times in the last 2 months. Twice they couldn't figure out what was wrong with it. Really it's just old.

So we got a great offer to buy a friend's older, garage kept car but it would be so much more reliable and for such a good price! But we recently spent our savings on fixing the car and such so I was going to take a loan out at the credit union to pay the small amount for the car. They called to tell me that we would be approved easily but my account still has my dad on it (from when I originally joined) and he is delinquent and unresponsive so they won't loan me money.







I'm so angry at my dad. Long story but he's irresponsible and of course doesn't consider how his actions affect others.

Driving home from finding that out my car died. It's 103 degrees here and I had to bail the kids out of the car and walk to shade until dh could come get us. Except his car isn't big enough for all of us so I had to ride in the back (trunk area) of his Pathfinder and the baby had to ride in the front seat.

I was suppose to get to go work out at the gym tomorrow. But now I don't have a car. And we can't get a loan for another car. And now we have no savings. This is my life. Over and over.

And this also means that I can't get to counseling. Of course. Of course this would happen.







This is exactly what I meant when I said I try so hard to take care of myself and it just NEVER WORKS OUT! The universe hates me.

And if we have to put more money on the credit card to fix the car I won't be able to use the money to pay my mom to watch the kids. And of course the car will break again. Just like it always does.

I really and truly hate my life right now. I try as hard as I can. I do everything I can. I try so. fucking. hard. For nothing.

And there's no way out. Just a cycle of awfulness.

Oh, and on top of everything dh is spitting angry that I put his empty beer bottles in his room this morning. He leaves them for me to clean up so I was fed up this morning and put them on the desk in his room. And he is piiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiisssssed. Hugely. Because that is the worst thing someone could ever do to you, obviously.


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## Subhuti

((((((((((((((((((oh my god the biggest hug to you))))))))))))))))))

it is SO hard when it feels as if the universe conspires against you....

your dad

your husband

even your car....

it does sound like you can't get a break....

I'm sending you love and strength because I can't think what else to do ... you are an amazing amazon woman inside, that is clear from your posts ... take it all one moment by one moment ... keep choosing life.... you will get through this hell time.


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## swd12422

Ugh. What an awful thing to have thrown into the mix!

IDK if this has been covered (sorry, DS is in one of "those" moods/modes today and I don't have time to re-read the thread), but I see in your siggy that you are Christian. Maybe it's faulty logic on my part, but does this mean you have a church and therefore a pastor/minister? It seems to me like even a phone session (or home visit, since the car is now out of the question) might help get you at least a bit back on your feet mentally. Do you have friends who can just come by for a few minutes/run errands for you/babysit while you take a walk around the block? Even if you can't get your dream day off to clean all morning and sleep all afternoon, arranging to have 15 minutes to yourself each day might be a good start. If you have neighbors who are close by, you could rotate them around, one each day, and take a few days just to have a few moments of peace. I don't know my neighbors all that well, but most of them, once they discover there are kids in the house, offer to pitch in here and there.


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## Super~Single~Mama

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Funny Face*
> 
> Driving home from finding that out my car died. It's 103 degrees here and I had to bail the kids out of the car and walk to shade until *dh could come get us*. Except *his car* isn't big enough for all of us so I had to ride in the back (trunk area) of his Pathfinder and the baby had to ride in the front seat.
> 
> I was suppose to get to go work out at the gym tomorrow. But now I don't have a car. And we can't get a loan for another car. And now we have no savings. This is my life. Over and over.
> 
> And this also means that *I can't get to counseling*. Of course. Of course this would happen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is exactly what I meant when I said I try so hard to take care of myself and it just NEVER WORKS OUT! The universe hates me.
> 
> So you don't have a car, but your DH does. That means you have a car - you're just a one car family instead of a two car family. Is there a reason that you are unable to use your DH's car to go to counseling? It shouldn't be an option for you to miss. Or, can you talk to the counselor about doing sessions via Skype? I know it feels impossible, I've been there. It feels so impossible, and it feels like the world hates you, ty to not panic - there may be another way. Neighbors that may loan you there car for a while? Friends? People at church (if you go)? etc. If you know anyone in your town, now is the time to start asking for help. It's OK to ask. I have a very good friend who had no idea I was in so much trouble when my relationship fell apart - she became my rock, and we hardly knew each other then!
> 
> Oh, and on top of everything dh is spitting angry that I put his empty beer bottles in his room this morning. He leaves them for me to clean up so I was fed up this morning and put them on the desk in his room. And he is piiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiisssssed. Hugely. Because that is the worst thing someone could ever do to you, obviously.


Is he an alcoholic? I don't think its your kids that are making you upset, I think its the husband. I think you might want to consider kicking him to the curb, and finding another way.


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## Funny Face

Okay, I tried to multi quote. Didn't work.

We don't have a church. Friends are pretty scarce. I have one friend who lives close by and she's visiting next week. We actually became good friends 2 year ago when I didn't have a car for a year. She visited me every week. I'm so glad I have her. But she really is the only one I can think of right now... and she's due to have a baby any minute. No neighbors but I'm gonna rack my brain for ideas on anyone who might want to visit. Playdates can be hard because my house is small.

So I can't take dh's car for a couple of reasons. One it's not the most reliable either. Two, it's a stick shift and I don't know how to drive one. And three, it only seats two adults in the front and will only fit two car seats in the back- which means that I couldn't take the kids to my mom's for her to watch them while I was at counseling (and just FYI it's a 20 minute drive to my moms and a 50 minute drive from her house to the counselor's). Oh, and did I mention that SHE doesn't have a car and that part of her house doesn't even have air conditioning? Ugh.

And we're not poor people either. My dad is just crazy irresponsible with money and dh and I are trying to dig ourselves out of his last 3 years of schooling and the debt that came with it.

He isn't an alcoholic. He actually doesn't drink much. This time it was beer bottles. Often times it's soda cans or root beer bottles or whatever.

I feel like I'm just complaining and how annoying is that but I'm absolutely at the end of my rope.


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## meemee

breathe mama. just breathe. put one step in front of each step and move forward moment by moment.

this is your breaking time. everything is breaking down everywhere. baby cries. dh pissed. cant go for therapy.

one day the time will come when you will have enough. and the only thing you can do is say 'F*** YOU' and just take care of the essential.

you are at a bad spot along with many other people in the world for the moment. one day you will come out of it.

at this moment it doesnt seem so but you will.

in such moments i say what the heck. just break down. everything that needs to break down. just do it. world - just collapse around me. and get it OVER with.

and then the healing starts.

i am glad that you already have your friend and your mom to help in any way they can.

one day you will look back with disbelief and wonder 'did i really go through all that?!!! whew!!!

we have a tendency to see time as linear. it soooo is not. its cyclical. you are reaching the crescendo of badness. and you are about to get out of it.

right now just focus on teh present. what you have to do NOW to take care of yourself and your family - even if it means having to put someones beer bottle on his desk. Kudos to you for standing up.


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## purslaine

I know you are broke - but if you can swing a car (even a $1000 beater for yourself) it might make a lot of difference.

I have been prone to both minor depression and major feelings of being overwhelmed and the few times we were without a second car were awful. I felt trapped at home and very isolated. Excellent public transportation might have made a difference - but I did not have it.

I would go into debt for a second car.

Hugs, mama!

and a Big "yeah that " to meemees post. This will not last forever.


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## Linda on the move

Most therapist have evening and saturday hours. Go when your DH is home to watch the kids.

You are too old for your parents' finances to be effecting you. Get your dad's name off the account, or if you can't do that, open a new account, move your money into it, and don't put his name on it. And then have YOUR name taken off the old account.

The universe doesn't hate. You say you are a Christian, but you don't go to church and you aren't pulling on your faith to get you through a difficult time. Part of the problem in you life is believing that the universe, or god, hates you. You believe that you are guilty and need to be punished. The whole "*convicted* to tandem nurse and homeschool" thing is just a big sign showing that your underlying beliefs about yourself and what you deserve are extremely, extremely negative.

Also, it isn't reasonable to expect your spouse to be your only friend. Once you have the car thing sorted out, start making a real life for yourself and your kids. It isn't your DH's fault that you don't have friends. Yes, some things you can blame him for, but that's not one of them.

You CAN make changes that will make your life better and happier *for you.*


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## Funny Face

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> Most therapist have evening and saturday hours. Go when your DH is home to watch the kids.
> 
> You are too old for your parents' finances to be effecting you. Get your dad's name off the account, or if you can't do that, open a new account, move your money into it, and don't put his name on it. And then have YOUR name taken off the old account.
> 
> The universe doesn't hate. You say you are a Christian, but you don't go to church and you aren't pulling on your faith to get you through a difficult time. Part of the problem in you life is believing that the universe, or god, hates you. You believe that you are guilty and need to be punished. The whole "*convicted* to tandem nurse and homeschool" thing is just a big sign showing that your underlying beliefs about yourself and what you deserve are extremely, extremely negative.
> 
> Also, it isn't reasonable to expect your spouse to be your only friend. Once you have the car thing sorted out, start making a real life for yourself and your kids. It isn't your DH's fault that you don't have friends. Yes, some things you can blame him for, but that's not one of them.
> 
> You CAN make changes that will make your life better and happier *for you.*


Yes. The therapist I'm seeing does evenings. As I said above I can't drive dh's car, for various reasons. I am not making excuses. I'm not trying to be difficult. The plain truth is I have lived for so long hearing 'if you want this you have to make it happen.' And I truly believe that. And I have nothing left in me to make it happen anymore.

I find your statements about my lack of church attendance and my faith incredibly assumptious. I won't explain why I don't attend church but I have good reasons- both personal and philosophical. I have attended church in the past however and it's not the out pouring of help some assume it to be. I'm venting. I'm bone tired and I'm venting and ranting because you better believe it's not acceptable to do so in many of my more 'Christian' circles.

I have friends. What I don't have is friends who can help me right now. I visited a friend this week whose husband has left her and have taken food to two other friends who have just had babies. I am the person that others usually ask for help. I'm not above reaching and asking for help but right now there just isn't any immediately available. Or perhaps I should keep an arsenal of friends at my disposal in the event I have a crisis and one or many are unavailable to come to my aid.

The use of the word 'convicted' is more a testament to my personality type than anything. I used such a strong word because things that matter to me are not unlike a moral cause in the way that I approach them. I choose to nurse and diaper and unschool. I don't feel guilty when I don't.

I wasn't aware that my father was still on my account. I thought I was in good standing with the credit union so I went there first. They wouldn't allow me to take him off the account if he is delinquent or to open a new one.

We went to a different credit union today and secured a loan. We are hoping to find out this coming week if we will be able to buy this other car.

Anyway, your post hit a nerve because of course I can make changes. I've done it over and over. And I know I'll have to do it again. I am tired of pulling myself up by my boot straps only to be knocked down again. Am I wallowing in self pity and whining right now? Yes. Absolutely. I feel I deserve a chance, after 6 years to do that.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kathymuggle*
> 
> I know you are broke - but if you can swing a car (even a $1000 beater for yourself) it might make a lot of difference.


The car we are trying to buy is not much more than that.


----------



## Smokering

Quote:


> The whole "*convicted* to tandem nurse and homeschool" thing is just a big sign showing that your underlying beliefs about yourself and what you deserve are extremely, extremely negative.


This made me blink the first time you brought it up... it's a word. In the OP's context it means "strongly convinced of the rightness of something". The fact that it also refers, in a completely different context, to being found guilty under the legal system is irrelevant. It doesn't make any sense to accuse someone who uses the word in the first sense of being subconsciously aware of the second and inadvertently revealing deep, dark psychological quirks. It's just a quirk of the English language. I use the word "convicted" about a bunch of opinions I've come to, which range from time-consuming and frankly annoying, to extremely easy, to irrelevant in a practical sense (ie, I became convicted that circumcision was wrong, but it's very rare in NZ and at the time I was expecting a girl, so it's not like it was being pushed on me anyway). No sinister psychological meaning there.


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## *bejeweled*

Put yourself first. Get help. Sometimes I read this poem when I am feeling overwhelmed. I hope that you like it.

Woman With Flower
By Naomi Long Madgett

I wouldn't coax the plant if I were you.
Such watchful nurturing may do it harm.
Let the soil rest from so much digging
And wait until it's dry before you water it.
The leaf's inclined to find its own direction;
Give it a chance to seek the sunlight for itself.
Much growth is stunted by too careful prodding,
Too eager tenderness.
The things we love we have to learn to leave alone.


----------



## Tigerchild

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Smokering*
> 
> This made me blink the first time you brought it up... it's a word. In the OP's context it means "strongly convinced of the rightness of something". The fact that it also refers, in a completely different context, to being found guilty under the legal system is irrelevant. It doesn't make any sense to accuse someone who uses the word in the first sense of being subconsciously aware of the second and inadvertently revealing deep, dark psychological quirks. It's just a quirk of the English language. I use the word "convicted" about a bunch of opinions I've come to, which range from time-consuming and frankly annoying, to extremely easy, to irrelevant in a practical sense (ie, I became convicted that circumcision was wrong, but it's very rare in NZ and at the time I was expecting a girl, so it's not like it was being pushed on me anyway). No sinister psychological meaning there.


Maybe not for you, and I'm glad for that. Unfortunately there are churches/belief systems in which people are put under enormous pressure to comply with parenting/partnering/dressing/ect. norms by their leaders and 'I am convicted to..' CAN mean that someone is abusing their authority to pressure someone to behave/look a certain way. That was common code word in the church in which I grew up for, "I feel uncomfortable/don't wish to, but my husband/pastor has given this teaching and I must obey." I think (hope) that is not COMMON however, and that the OP genuinely uses the word more like you do--but the reason why some people might interpret 'I am convicted to X Y or Z' as something that is abusive and/or forced is because we were raised/belonged to that system and that is exactly how it was used. 

Thankfully, having (As of my last birthday, yay!) finally spent more time OUT of that spiritual community than in it, I tend to not assume the negative context. Just thought that I'd throw out why someone else might (and they wouldn't be thinking of the legal 'conviction' either!).


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## Smokering

Hm. I've heard it used in the religious sense too (often regarding adopting modest dress or headcoverings, for some reason), but always in the context of being personally convinced about a matter, not pressured or abused. It's sad that it's used in a euphemistic way like you describe.  But yes, that makes sense, although I'm not sure it's where Linda's coming from?


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## Linda on the move

About the word "convicted"

The thoughts we think and the words we choose have tremendous power. They effect how we feel, so ultimately, they make the difference between feeling happy and blessing or being so depressed we wish our children didn't exist and we hate our own lives.

If the OPer makes it to therapy and sees someone trained in cognitive behavior therapy, she'll spend time learning to think about her life differently. Until she thinks about her life differently, she'll stay stuck where she is -- miserable.

There is a massive difference in how it feels to do anything (homeschool, stay married, ANYTHING) when one feels it is the ONLY option compared to how to feels to do the exact same thing when it is active choice made in freedom.

If another poster used the word "convicted" to describe something that was working for them, I wouldn't bring it up what a heavy, negative, limiting word it is. But the OPer's life isn't working for her in huge ways. She thinks the universe hates her. She wishes she hadn't had her children. She's sick of her marriage. She feels her child acts like a wild animal.

One of the things the word "convicted" implies is "closed off to new information." People use it when they feel they know everything they need to to understand what is right and wrong in a specific context. On something fairly limited, like circumcision, I can see how one could get there.

I don't understand how a parent with three small child, only one of whom is even school age, could believe that they have all the information about what will always be best for each of her children's educations. That's just so limiting, and it doesn't allow any room to get to know those children, consider what they want, observe what actually works for them, etc.

To me, it's really obvious reading these post that the OPer needs to make some changes. Continuing to do the exact some things and thinking about them the exact same ways will leave the OPer feeling exactly the same. And she really deserves to feel better. She deserves to be happy, to feel blessed, to enjoy her children and see them as blessings. But to get there, she's going to have to let go of something -- it may be just letting go of how she thinks about some of this stuff.

"Convicted" is a very heavy, negative, limiting word. Changing the word doesn't require changing anything else. To me, it makes sense as a place to start.


----------



## MamaMunchkin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Funny Face*
> 
> Anyway, your post hit a nerve because of course I can make changes. I've done it over and over. And I know I'll have to do it again. I am tired of pulling myself up by my boot straps only to be knocked down again. Am I wallowing in self pity and whining right now? Yes. Absolutely. I feel I deserve a chance, after 6 years to do that.










Been there, I know that place you're talking about ... Whine away, get it out of your system, but please do try not to dwell on it - it will pass if you let it be.

And yes, things are hard and seem insurmountable, but please do take a moment and appreciate things that are going alright in your life right now. Are you reasonably healthy otherwise? Are the children generally alright? What things are more or less OK? Not necessarily perfect, but you know, something you can appreciate.

It does sound counter-intuitive and kind of wishful thinking-y. Sometimes, things seem very bad because we compare our life to some imaginary one that's better. Personally, I tend to feel bad whenever I think things should/could be better. And I tend to feel much better whenever I think things could be a lot worse.

The fact is, no one knows, things can be a lot worse - granted that doesn't mean things are not bad







.

But, it's really our choice what we compare our life to - to some better what-ifs or worse what-ifs ... or not to compare and expect anything at all. The what-ifs are not real anyway, we can choose whichever we want, or not at all.

I do wish things will get better for you ....


----------



## Subhuti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> I don't understand how a parent with three small child, only one of whom is even school age, could believe that they have all the information about what will always be best for each of her children's educations. That's just so limiting, and it doesn't allow any room to get to know those children, consider what they want, observe what actually works for them, etc.


Linda, I don't know if you are aware of it, but your posts come across as unsupportive and critical rather than helpful. When you're in the place where the OP is, it might feel like being kicked while you are down. She's pretty firm that she has a way that she wants to live and that to not live in that way will make her feel even worse. She's pretty clear about what she meant when she said convicted.

There are ways to make the points you are making in less critical way. Just read back at the posts that the other MDC moms have put in this thread. They are equally strong in their points but much more respectful in tone.

It bothers me when people come here laying themselves bare in their pain and people start getting harsh on them or second-guess their lifestyle choices. I am sure your intentions are good, but the OP is not going to hear your advice if you are not taking what she is saying at face value and instead taking a tough tone with her.

Anyway ... OP ... so glad you got a line on a cheap second car!! That's wonderful.


----------



## Linda on the move

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Subhuti*
> 
> Linda, I don't know if you are aware of it, but your posts come across as unsupportive and critical rather than helpful. When you're in the place where the OP is, it might feel like being kicked while you are down. She's pretty firm that she has a way that she wants to live and that to not live in that way will make her feel even worse. She's pretty clear about what she meant when she said convicted.


I encouraged her to change the way she THINKS about what she is doing, the words to uses to herself and others to say WHY she is doing what she's doing. I didn't tell her to DO anything differently, except to chose her thoughts and her words with more care.

A therapist will most likely tell her the same thing.


----------



## Tigerchild

You know, despite the glowing reviews that are often bandied about in certain places, sometimes tandem nursing just sucks (literally and figuratively, ha ha.) I "triple tandemed" my singleton and twins (my singleton is 17 months older than my twins and nursed throughout the entire pregnancy as well). I dropped 80 lbs in 12 weeks and felt like crap run over in the rain by a semi. As it turns out, I wasn't eating enough (well how the hell was I supposed to do that with a kid on each boob and me trying to support them constantly?). Even after I got that part figured out, it took my body 3 years to recover (with intense nutrition/vitamins/under a ND's care). My brain function and processing was noticeably (to me) curtailed. At the period of my life where I needed the most patience and forbearance, my did not have the intellectual, emotional, or physical capacity to be "my best" as I would have normally defined it.

For me, things did not start to get better until my youngest kids were weaned and could separate from me enough for me to get out for a *good* chunk of time (3+ hours). I am an introvert--the ONLY person who I can be around 24/7 and NOT have them get on my nerves because of their proximity is my husband. Maybe that makes me a terrible person, but whatever. However...when you are a parent, you do what you must. There were lots of things I COULD have done but were impractical or I wasn't willing to pay the expense (not always monetary)--so I also had to choose to put one foot in front of the other and remind myself (literally with post-its in all caps put in strategic places) that I chose this, I'm going to deal with it just for today, and re-evaluate tomorrow.

I'd like to say that I didn't beat myself up over not dancing through flowery fields farting sparkles, butterflies, and unicorns of joy over my orgasmic experience of parenting at that particular time--but that wouldn't be true. I did get some therapy to deal with some pretty ugly stuff that came up for me interally due to childhood abuse/abandonment, and it was nice to have a professional say (in a more professional way of course) that it was okay if I was not farting butterflies at this time in my life.

So I agree with PP, OP...DO try to claim some space for yourself. I wish I had done so earlier. OTOH, it's also okay to take things one hour at a time if you have to--as long as you make SURE that you are doing so with an attitude that you have chosen these choices (and so you will NOT blame or punish the kids as a result). At least, most of the time--let's be real, we all mess up sometimes and will need to apologize to our kids.

But yeah, you'll get through this. You may never look back at the 'good old days' as great fun, but I would try really hard to let that roll off your back.


----------



## Paigekitten

I totally have felt those feelings too. I totally know the feeling of just needing to vent and not have people attack your choices when you try to do that. Sometimes life DOES feel like it's conspiring against you, and I know that my kids certainly pick up on that as well. It's like not only is everything just awful, but then you aren't even allowed to FEEL awful because the kids pick up on it, and everyone jumps in and says everything is awful because you aren't doing enough, or are doing to much, or the right thing, or even THINKING the right way.

I really hope getting a car works out for you, that sounds like it will certainly help you.

I've lived a depressed spouse, and I've BEEN the depressed spouse, and it is SO. FREAKING. HARD. It just is, and I admire your strength and courage.

There are a few things that have helped me, I found out I am borderline anemic, and have low vitamin D levels, so supplementing that have helped as well. I changed my diet, for me low carb, high protein has helped me a lot.

I went to visit my mom for two weeks, and got a break WITH the kids, sounds like if you get your car you have a little help and a break as well.

I stopped trying to find friends/support/help in real life. I'm a huge introvert and it was just stressing me out. Everyone seems so quick to suggest it, but it doesn't necessarily work for everyone.

I stopped expecting DH to pull his own weight around the house or with the kids. I figured I could leave, and be a single mom and have to find a way to earn an income, or I could just kind of pretend I was a single mom, but keep my best friend and his financial contributions. I will admit, after a while he started just doing little things around the house, or even offered to walk the girls to the park so I could stay home and read. I made that mental shift maybe a year ago, and just within the last few months it seems like he is finally getting his depression under control. Not easy, but somehow just changing my expectations changed things.

It's not easy, and I just wanted to say you are not the only one who feels like it's impossible.


----------



## swd12422

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tigerchild*
> 
> ...
> 
> I'd like to say that I didn't beat myself up over not dancing through flowery fields farting sparkles, butterflies, and unicorns of joy over my orgasmic experience of parenting at that particular time--but that wouldn't be true. I did get some therapy to deal with some pretty ugly stuff that came up for me interally due to childhood abuse/abandonment, and it was nice to have a professional say (in a more professional way of course) that it was okay if I was not farting butterflies at this time in my life.
> 
> ...


All I have to say is, OP, if you didn't spit coffee out of your nostrils while reading this, drop everything and go get some help NOW. Even if you have to walk 50 miles to get it. And if you did spit coffee out of your nostrils, and maybe felt just a teensy bit better, even for a moment, save it and read it 5 times a day, or more if needed.


----------



## *bejeweled*

This is a really wonderful book: Dr. Wayne Dyer "Change Your Thoughts, Change Your Life" It has really helped me Let Go of a lot.


----------



## APToddlerMama

How are you doing, OP?


----------



## Snapdragon

*Funny Face* - I hope things turn around for you and that you start to feel better and more suppported. It sounds like a really rough situation and I feel for you


----------



## Funny Face

I'm still here, I'm okay. I had a breakdown last weekend. I'd felt it coming for awhile, like a big leak in a boat and had been frantically emptying water out by the bucket full. But last weekend I sank.

It was awful. But in the midst of it dh finally did SOMETHING and took care of the kids most of the weekend so I didn't have to and I got to sleep some. I don't think I could tell I was so physically tired because I'd been so wired for so many days.

I told my counselor I'd been having thoughts of harming myself and the kids. I knew at the time I had no intention of acting on them but they were very heavy intrusive thoughts that I couldn't shake and I said it as soon as I got there so I wouldn't lose my nerve. I don't want to even play around with that kind of thing, regardless of how terrible it feels to tell someone something like that. So I have support in that area and feel it will make it easier to tell someone next time it starts happening.

I don't know if I mentioned before that I have chronic back pain but I've started realizing how big of a trigger that is as well. I ignore it (because it's always there) and then lose my temper/freak out when the pain becomes too severe. It feels like it attacks me out of nowhere but I'm realizing now that it builds up over time but I've been pushing it out of my mind. I'm trying to figure out what step to take next in that area. I've been seeing a chiropractor for years but I feel I need more help then what they have given me. Finding money to see specialists though makes me stressed just thinking about it.

Want to say more but baby needs me.


----------



## swd12422

Oh, I'm so sorry! It sucks to get to that point, but unfortunately lots of times it does take hitting a wall (or bottom, or whatever metaphor works for you) to get out of the spiral you feel you're stuck in. I know my DH doesn't "get it" when I ask for help here and there, but when it becomes a crisis, then he wakes up. (Of course, it's better not to have to get to that point, but sometimes it's what has to happen for him to see what's needed. Sometimes even I can't see what's needed til I'm at a breaking point -- that used to happen a LOT when DS was a baby, but not as much now...)

Anyway, I don't remember seeing you mention chronic pain, but I have similar issues, and what you said about just ignoring it and it quietly builds tension and stress in you til you can't ignore it any longer is SO me. It has taken me years, but I am finally realizing that's true for me, and finally am figuring out that when I realize I'm feeling stressed, yelling more than I should, getting upset over the little things, feeling overwhelmed, etc. I need to stop everything and check in with my pain level. It's usually either pretty high at that point, or has been elevated for a period of time. It just creeps up and then explodes. IDK what your back issue is (or if you even have a diagnosis -- if you don't have one, get one, even if you have to put it on credit/arrange payment plans). It took me a long time to find out that I needed more than a few pills and stretches. By the time my doctor ordered an MRI, it was so bad that the doctors and the techs couldn't believe I was walking around like that. They had to double-check and make sure they hadn't switched my file with someone else's. I went to see a physical therapist after that and I'm getting much better, but of course it is something that requires me to take 30 minutes out of my day to stretch and do the exercises I need to keep my condition from worsening. Like I have that extra time... But I do it b/c it beats the alternative! It makes for too much of a chain reaction if I ignore my back -- then it hurts, then I'm cranky, then DS gets upset when I can't play with him/carry him, then we're BOTH upset, then DS acts out....... Not worth it in the least. Never mind that spending the time/money on fixing it now avoided some serious damage and extraordinarily expensive/dangerous/painful spine surgery. I cringe when I think about how close I came. And of course, I have a foot issue that started when DS was a baby, and I ignored that, too, and now I need $300 custom orthotics and a brace to wear to bed and.... Thankfully again I caught it before it got to surgery, but if I had dealt with it 3 years ago, I wouldn't have had to spend all that money on equipment.

Sorry, I'm rambling, I'm just trying to say that you're not alone. Lots of us here have BTDT with at least parts of your situation, and we feel for you. And want you to take care of yourself so you CAN feel better. And that we thought we could push on through and come out fine on the other side, and sometimes that works and sometimes it works against you til you wake up and see that you need/deserve to have these things taken care of too. Glad you went to counseling; I hope it will help.


----------



## Smokering

Quote:


> I told my counselor I'd been having thoughts of harming myself and the kids.


Just wanted to say... KUDOS. Good for you. That was a brave thing to do. I'm impressed.


----------



## D_McG

OP how much sleep are you getting? Average hours every night? Lack of sleep can do awful things. Are your bigger kids at least not needing you at night? My kids are the same ages as yours (actually my baby is only 2 mos) and critical to my sanity is having the big 2 in bed by 7pm (sleeping 11- 12 hours) and then I try to be in bed with the baby 8-9 hours. I nurse her overnight, obviously but just me being in bed for a decent stretch is keeping me SO much more grounded this time than in the past. It's really night and day. Even if I don't feel tired I'll go to bed and read (she still is small enough to not be bothered by the light). I really like that, too. Just carving out a little space.

It may seem overly simplistic but I just wanted to mention it. With my other two I would get wired and stay up late, late just trying to be alone but it was such the wrong approach and I nearly lost my mind.

I also sleep in one weekend morning, if I feel like it (I don't, always but it's nice to have the option).

Obviously sleep won't fix your situation issues but it might help clear your head so you can make good, rational decisions about how to move forwards with your family.

All the best.


----------



## beenmum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> May be it's time to redefine "being a good mother."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know anything about you but what is on your signature -- you homeschool, tandum nurse, and use cloth diapers. You don't have to. You can make different choices and make time for yourself in your life. Being a mother doesn't mean that every single minute of the day and night HAS to be about someone else. It is possible to be a good mother and have balance in your life.


God yes. All of what you do is wonderful...but ONLY if its not ruining your relationships with your kids anf husband.

Honestly, putting your kids in a school wont ruin them. Giving them a bottle will not send them into therapy. Telling them you need a break and will not be bothered (except for emergencies) while you are in the tub will not make you a bad mother.


----------



## Subhuti

Just checking in to say hello and send a hug ....


----------



## Funny Face

I visited my GP, at my therapist's suggestion, to talk about my chronic pain and be screened for depression. The doc sent a student in to do the screening which wouldn't have been so bad if the student wasn't more nervous than I was and seemed to be completely oblivious to the fact that she kept asking me something, then interrupting me, then saying really awkward things because she was trying to be personable.









It is hard enough for me to tell someone how lousy I'm feeling but to have to tell a student and then sit there while it's being relayed (incorrectly) to the doctor and then have to re-explain it again was excruciating.

She prescribed some meds, muscle relaxers and antidepressants, and I'm nervous about using them so I need to do my own research to see how I feel about breastfeeding on these meds. She wants me to do yoga three times a week and physical therapy 2 times a week and I'm also suppose to be making sure my daughter gets one date night out a week and that dh and I get a night out in the next week and I have NO ONE to watch my kids for any of this. I've wracked my brain and finding childcare here (never mind how I would ever afford it) is nearly impossible. The 'answers' always seem to only further complicate things. 

I have this big event coming up for a friend and I'm suppose to be planning it and I have no money. I can't even afford something to wear to the party, let alone the cost of attending (each person will pay their own way).

I was feeling a bit 'better' last week. Like I was on top of things but I knew I it wasn't permanent. And then today has been really hard. The baby isn't sleeping and I haven't had time without the kids in awhile.

Just updating in case others ever feel the same way and because I have no one else to talk to.


----------



## swd12422

Sorry you got stuck with a student. Ugh. And yeah, I got the advice to do yoga regularly, get some "me" time (non-yoga) and trade babysitting. Um, with WHOM???? I have friends with kids. None of them wants to take another one for a day any more than I want to reciprocate with THEIR kids. It's hard. But try, and do as much of that as you can. Be creative. Maybe you could find a teenager who will trade babysitting for.... Help with homework? Free car repairs (if your hubby can do stuff like that)? Brownies or something else you can make/do yourself (b/c yeah, you have so much extra time to do this!)?

If you only choose one thing, do physical therapy. Mine only saw me twice, then gave me sheets of all the stretches he taught me so I could do it myself at home. It's cheaper, easier, and less travelling that way, and it's something you can do every day at home for free (after you pay for the initial visits). Let them know that you are trying to do this as cheaply as possible, ask for a little extra time during the first visit or two to make sure you're doing it right, then ask if you can check in in a few weeks/months whenever they feel it should start having some effect. Even a phone follow-up instead of an office visit if everything seems fine (with the promise that you will go in if it's not). Negotiate and see how far you can get!

As for date night, we have a restaurant here that has a separate kids' play area (but not fast food). Maybe there's someplace near you that has that? We also have a coffee shop that has toys, so if you can only find a coffee shop instead of someplace for dinner, you could do a breakfast or lunch date, bring your LO, and have playtime while you and DH chat. (That doesn't count as a real date to a therapist, but it's a compromise.)

To find a sitter: How about contacting the local daycare or preschool and ask for the name of a teacher who might be interested? Or church? Or a church school? That's where our neighbor found her sitter -- her church's preschool teacher is completely underpaid and was happy to sit for two cute little girls for not much money. If you're doing a dinner date with your hubby, payment could be dinner for the sitter and some dessert to take home or something.

Geez, the more I type, the less helpful I get. Just trying to brainstorm. I hope something works for you. Unfortunately, with brainstorming most of it is useless.


----------



## Funny Face

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *swd12422*
> 
> Sorry you got stuck with a student. Ugh. And yeah, I got the advice to do yoga regularly, get some "me" time (non-yoga) and trade babysitting. Um, with WHOM???? I have friends with kids. None of them wants to take another one for a day any more than I want to reciprocate with THEIR kids. It's hard. But try, and do as much of that as you can. Be creative. Maybe you could find a teenager who will trade babysitting for.... Help with homework? Free car repairs (if your hubby can do stuff like that)? Brownies or something else you can make/do yourself (b/c yeah, you have so much extra time to do this!)?
> 
> If you only choose one thing, do physical therapy. Mine only saw me twice, then gave me sheets of all the stretches he taught me so I could do it myself at home. It's cheaper, easier, and less travelling that way, and it's something you can do every day at home for free (after you pay for the initial visits). Let them know that you are trying to do this as cheaply as possible, ask for a little extra time during the first visit or two to make sure you're doing it right, then ask if you can check in in a few weeks/months whenever they feel it should start having some effect. Even a phone follow-up instead of an office visit if everything seems fine (with the promise that you will go in if it's not). Negotiate and see how far you can get!
> 
> As for date night, we have a restaurant here that has a separate kids' play area (but not fast food). Maybe there's someplace near you that has that? We also have a coffee shop that has toys, so if you can only find a coffee shop instead of someplace for dinner, you could do a breakfast or lunch date, bring your LO, and have playtime while you and DH chat. (That doesn't count as a real date to a therapist, but it's a compromise.)
> 
> To find a sitter: How about contacting the local daycare or preschool and ask for the name of a teacher who might be interested? Or church? Or a church school? That's where our neighbor found her sitter -- her church's preschool teacher is completely underpaid and was happy to sit for two cute little girls for not much money. If you're doing a dinner date with your hubby, payment could be dinner for the sitter and some dessert to take home or something.
> 
> Geez, the more I type, the less helpful I get. Just trying to brainstorm. I hope something works for you. Unfortunately, with brainstorming most of it is useless.


Thank you, those are really great ideas.









I do have insurance so the physical therapy should be covered, for which I am so grateful. I might try to find out if dh could do a lunch appt and meet me there and watch kids, depending on how long the session takes. I'm really, really hoping they can show me something to help. The chiro gave me exercises to do and my muscles became so inflamed he told me to stop doing them. I just don't get how this is all suppose to work. All the x-rays came back negative and she said she thought that it was a good possibility that my pain is so bad because of stress. I don't know why that hadn't really occurred to me. duh.

I was trying to think of somewhere with a play place, like you said. Dh has celiac so he can't eat most places and I'm vegan so I can't eat most places and there aren't many places with play areas but I was thinking we could get a drink or something. We have to do SOMETHING and that might be the best we get right now.

Most of the time I'm just overwhelmed by how HARD everything is, yk? I am trying my damn hardest. I give everything I do 100% and it just seems like with all the effort I'm putting in things shouldn't be so bad.

I took the kids to the mall today because I'm suppose to have shoes to wear to a wedding I am in and I thought the kids could play. When we left someone had parked crooked in the space next to me completely blocking off the passenger side of my car so that I couldn't get the kids in. I was so pissed I left them a note telling them off. I've never done anything like that in my life but I was livid that someone would do something like that. The person couldn't have been oblivious because they would have had to walk around the front of my car because they'd parked so close to me you couldn't even fit your body between the rear of the cars.







Quite frankly, though I doubt they cared, it felt good to tell them how crappy their actions were.

Tonight I get out of the house alone and the baby slept last night, both things I am thankful for.


----------



## chaoticzenmom

I'm glad to see you're getting some supports in place. Too bad the chiro didn't do more for your pain Back to the date night stuff. Maybe your husband can pick up some Japanese food once a week and bring it home so that nobody has to make dinner. That works for me just as much as a date night. I really like takeout, but don't like junk food, so picking up japanese or indian food often really helps. And we try to have leftovers for the next day so that lunch is covered as well. We had some Thai sweet and sour tofu the other day that was sooo good. To me, the idea of date night stresses me out. I much prefer hanging out at home, but not having to clean up.

I didn't see it mentioned, but can you get massages prescribed?


----------



## Funny Face

Tonight is one of those nights where I just wonder how much longer it will be like this, how much longer I can keep going. Everything goes so very badly that I look around and feel certain I am doing everything wrong. And at the same time I know that can't be true because I work so hard, care so much, try so desperately to do right by my husband and children... but maybe that's not enough.

There must be some magic component I'm missing. Something that holds families together, makes people love their lives, love their children daily, makes them feel like they can breathe. Makes people love them in return.

That's the thing I'm missing.


----------



## bodhitree

Sorry things continue to be hard for you. Did you ever start taking the antidepressants that were prescribed? What you typed really sounds like depression talking. I have been there and had that feeling that I was missing whatever it was that made it possible for people to deal with their lives and feel okay with things. I would just look at other people who seemed to be doing fine, and I had a total lack of comprehension as to how they managed it. I totally didn't get it. But I did realize I was depressed. Then I took some antidepressants for a while, saw a therapist for a while, and worked on taking good care of myself physically, and I got better. So if your first session with the inept student wasn't helpful to you, it might be worth trying again with someone else.

I hope things get better soon for you.


----------



## LynnS6

For research on antidepressants and breastfeeding, try Dr. Hale's website: http://www.infantrisk.com/category/depression. Zoloft is generally considered the safest, but given how very seriously ill you sound, you will most likely need greater than a starter dose. Intrusive thoughts like you have take a higher dose. You were very brave to tell your therapist -- those intrusive thoughts are scary. I'm sorry your doc sent in a student. Next time, tell them "I'm not comfortable with a student." I've been on antidepressants and breastfed my kids (who are now 7 and 10) and would be happy to tell you about it, if you want to PM me. Remember too, that you really have to compare two risks: The risk of medicine vs. The risk of having a mom who is severely depressed.

Is there a pain clinic near you? My sister has severe bladder/kidney pain that triggers depression and she only got relief when she went to a pain clinic. They did both medical things with her, and there was a support group of some sort that was really helpful for her. When her pain returns, her depression gets triggered too. But I think for you treating the pain is really crucial, because it's adding a level of stress to you every single day. It's not just when it gets bad, but it's there all the time. That added level of stress builds up over time. Chronic pain can indeed bring about depression. Right now you've got a double whammy (full depression + pain) that's making life difficult.

What kind of exercise can you do that doesn't hurt your back? Would walking help? (It's cheap, it's easy to do with a stroller.) I don't know how severe your back problems are but walking helps my back immensely. Physical therapy also helped, and the exercises I got from the PT were easily done at home. Swimming is also good, but that's logistically may be difficult for you.

Are you getting enough protein? If you're vegan, what are you eating for protein? Your brain needs extra protein to rebuild it's levels of serotonin. And you're breastfeeding. So you need to get a ton of protein. I eat animal protein, so for me, when I'm really feeling bad, I can eat protein bars with whey, greek yogurt, cottage cheese and other protein rich foods. I haven't a clue how to do that in a vegan way, but maybe someone can help.

I'm gonna come right out and say that until you're better date night with your husband should be very low key, if they happen at all. To me, date night sounds like something great to add in when you're in recovery. If paying a sitter causes you too much stress and being out with your husband helps, then do what others suggest and bring them to a place with a play area. Take an afternoon walk to the park. Take the kids to a mall with an indoor play area and sit and chat while they play. My niece can't do gluten and does well at Indian, some Mexican (for example, she can do rice & beans, so just asks for it without the tortilla) and some Asian places (where there's rice, not noodles).


----------



## swd12422

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Funny Face*
> 
> Tonight is one of those nights where I just wonder how much longer it will be like this, how much longer I can keep going. Everything goes so very badly that I look around and feel certain I am doing everything wrong. And at the same time I know that can't be true because I work so hard, care so much, try so desperately to do right by my husband and children... but maybe that's not enough.
> 
> There must be some magic component I'm missing. Something that holds families together, makes people love their lives, love their children daily, makes them feel like they can breathe. Makes people love them in return.
> 
> That's the thing I'm missing.


Honestly, you do sound quite depressed. Everything? Really? Can you be objective enough to admit that it's really not EVERYTHING? (Hey, you and your kids woke up this morning and everyone was alive and safe, and maybe even some of you were happy, right?) Start small, but start finding the good and focusing on it instead of the bad. (I've been trying to work on this myself, and let me tell you, I felt ridiculous when it was pointed out to me that even with my pain, and things in my personal life not being good, etc. that I still have it much better than lots of other people. It's true, and it's also very easy to forget when you're not where you want to be.)

I borrowed a book from the library about cognitive behavioral therapy (which I think PPs mentioned here, or was it another thread?). It was in the context of dieting/"thinking like a thin person" but as I read it I realized that this is exactly what therapists use to help people with depression. It's about changing your mindset, and there are little exercises to do each day. Most of them center around creating and then reading (multiple times daily, as necessary) positive affirmations (not quite a la Stuart Smalley, but mostly things that are in context with your particular issues, like "I'd rather lose the extra weight and feel better for the rest of my life than eat this chocolate cake and feel better for a few minutes.") I'm wondering if maybe this would help you to keep a more positive outlook? I am planning to do this in the next few days, b/c I have an awful habit of being irritable with DS for no good reason and it has to stop. So my cards will have reminders on them like how grateful I am to be his mommy b/c it sure beats the alternative of no kids, nevermind how much joy he brings to our lives (yes, he brings a lot of turmoil too, but focusing on the joy is the point); how I don't need to eat the chocolate cake (!) and should exercise instead; how my PT only takes 20 minutes and I need to make time for it EVERY DAY or I'm not giving my best to my family (how can I, if I'm cranky from hurting?); there's more, but I'm sure no one wants to hear it. ;-)

As for you feeling like you're missing something, are you my husband??? I know very few people who appear to have this "thing" you feel you are missing who are not in therapy and on anti-depressants. Seriously. My neighbor? Drugs and Jesus weren't enough, so now she's a fitness freak as well. Crazy. New friend who has THREE kids who are well-mannered, calm, and always nicely dressed? Anger management therapy and anti-depressants, for YEARS and can't hold a conversation without throwing her DH under the bus about some little thing. Also admits to anxiety attacks at the thought of spending any time at all with her in-laws, who come to every birthday party, holiday, etc and appear to be a very close knit family who do everything for each other. Not without guilt, fighting, and apparently a lot of animosity. My BFF? Kid is a train wreck b/c BFF doesn't have the energy/motivation to discipline her at ALL, take her out to get her energy out (and learn how to behave in public), or play with her in the house where she just watches TV and runs amok. Another friend who cannot post anything to Facebook without referencing her "amazing husband" and what he bought her/where he took her on vacation? Methinks she doth protest too much. She only admits that "nobody's perfect" but then acts like they are. I'm pretty sure she's on anti-depressants too, and basically stopped talking to a lot of us once she discovered her son may be autistic b/c it's too much to admit her boy isn't developing perfectly.

I swear I am not making this up. Nobody has it all together. Nobody feels like they're madly in love with their family 100% of the time. I know that I am, but I don't feel it ALL THE TIME. I think you need to take a step back and stop beating yourself up over not being perfect. A therapist once told me, "Lower your expectations (of yourself and others) and you'll be MUCH happier." It's true. DH always says to take things in "baby steps." He should know, he's more of a mess than I am, and has pulled himself out of depression more times than he cares to admit. He's stronger now for it, even though it has brought him to his knees in the past. Each time he goes through it, he learns something (IDK what) and the next time is less severe than the time before. The episodes also are much fewer and further between now. Focus on yourself, on learning what motivates you, on what's going right (is the refrigerator still working? that counts, b/c think of what a PITA it would be if it weren't) and see if you can't crowd out the negative thoughts. And stop comparing yourself to other people. You're you. Work on that.

Yeah, I'm rambling. A lot of this is for my own sake as well, b/c I have been needing time to sort out my thoughts (not that this isn't still a jumble) but I'm hoping that maybe some of it will help you too. I'm pulling for you and so are lots of other people here!


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## applecider

I've been there and I strongly suggest meds and therapy.


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## NellieKatz

Obviously there are so many responses to this thread, I cannot go and read them all; I am mainly reacting to the first few, and other similar types of issues I see from time to time here.

Why do people seem to jump so quickly to saying she suffers from depression (as though there is something wrong with HER) when in truth it sounds like a very natural reaction to being all used up. I would be more likely to look for boundaries issues and see if she is "giving too much" and not saying no enough, and is indeed becoming depleted. And why wouldn't that make someone miserable? I don't get it.....it always sounds like we're finding fault with someone (i.e. "you have a piece missing") when we say that, when in reality they are having a normal reaction to a very crappy situation.

I'm not really picking on anyone in particular here but I just sort of viscerally reacted to the way it felt like we were pointing out some kind of flaw in the OP. Indeed it *could* be depression but it could also be that in her family system she never saw women who could assert boundaries and keep their own needs met AS they met those of their kids/spouse. I was in my 40's before I really understood how freaking important boundaries were. I mean, I first learned about them in my 30's (family system had taught me just the opposite of healthy boundaries) but until I had my child in my 40s I never had to put them into practice, and then, of course, the stakes feel (and are) HUGE.

Anyway, I do hope that things can be corrected so that OP feels better about her life. But truly, this is a great place to vent and I would urge OP to continue doing so.


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## swd12422

I don't see depression as a flaw or as something wrong with a person. It just is something that's there. Maybe it's the cause of her negative thoughts and feelings, and maybe it's the result of her feeling stuck b/c of boundary issues. Maybe it's both. Maybe it's not really depression (but it sounds like it). Either way, something needs to change to help her feel better about herself, her life, etc. Most of us are responding based on our own experience, and unfortunately lots of us see depression as part of what's going on. Hopefully something in this thread will help, depression or not, but I don't think anyone is implying there is something wrong with OP or that it's her fault somehow.


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## Linda on the move

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *swd12422*
> 
> I don't see depression as a flaw or as something wrong with a person. It just is something that's there.


agreed. I don't see it as any different than if someone had listed a bunch of symptoms and gotten responses that they were the signs of diabetes and that they needed to see a doctor ASAP.

It just is.

To define it as a "flaw" makes it less likely someone will get help. And no one has to live that miserable. No one has to suffer to that degree.

It's OK to get real help and move forward in life.


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## MamaMunchkin

OP,

I haven't read all the previous posts, sorry if someone else already mentioned this.

Have you read "Feeling Good" by David Burns? If not, I highly recommend it. Don't be discouraged by the title - this is a no-nonsense book on Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT). This approach requires you do exercises/homeworks to get any benefits. This book might help giving you tools to deal with issues/thoughts you have been having.

Please do consider, give the exercises/homeworks some time to see how/if it works for you at all. Hope things will get better for you soon.


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## LynnS6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NellieKatz*
> Why do people seem to jump so quickly to saying she suffers from depression (as though there is something wrong with HER) when in truth it sounds like a very natural reaction to being all used up. I would be more likely to look for boundaries issues and see if she is "giving too much" and not saying no enough, and is indeed becoming depleted. And why wouldn't that make someone miserable? I don't get it.....it always sounds like we're finding fault with someone (i.e. "you have a piece missing") when we say that, when in reality they are having a normal reaction to a very crappy situation.
> 
> I'm not really picking on anyone in particular here but I just sort of viscerally reacted to the way it felt like we were pointing out some kind of flaw in the OP. Indeed it *could* be depression but it could also be that in her family system she never saw women who could assert boundaries and keep their own needs met AS they met those of their kids/spouse. I was in my 40's before I really understood how freaking important boundaries were. I mean, I first learned about them in my 30's (family system had taught me just the opposite of healthy boundaries) but until I had my child in my 40s I never had to put them into practice, and then, of course, the stakes feel (and are) HUGE.


I think you need to read the whole post. She has some very serious issues in her life. Yes, having a husband who wasn't depressed and a dad who was not irresponsible for money would lessen her stress. But no amount of boundaries is going to make them all go away. She's got a child with a feeding disorder, a depressed husband, can't get a loan for a car, is in a place where she knows few people (thus no social support network), and has had 3 children in 5 years. That's HEAPS of stress, and too much stress is the #1 cause of depression. Once you're depressed, you need to focus on self-care. Once you;re depressed, your brain chemicals are altered. You can't just set boundaries and have it get better. Boundary setting will be part of the solution, but it won't fix everything. As witnessed by her latest post.

OP: I hope you're able to get the help you need, and are able to round up some support.

Could someone teach you to drive stick? Could you sell your husband's car and buy one that works for the 2 of you?


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## blackannis

*hugs* No, there's no magic component. It always takes a lot of work, and if you feel like you're the only one doing the work, it seems much more like hell than heaven. Plus, honestly, sometimes one person really cannot do it all if there's just too much that needs doing. You are, after all, human!







From what you've said it sounds like that's a lot of what's going on--you feel like (and seem to be) the only one really trying in this situation . . . the kids are too small, your husband is too depressed, and so you're left to be the only "adult" to try and keep it all together. It's COMPLETELY understandable that you would be angry and frustrated and, honestly, rather depressed.

Has your husband yet admitted that he needs therapy himself? My DH was having severe, severe anxiety issues for a couple of years before we had our son, and once he finally decided to ask his therapist to help him find a good medication, things have improved hugely. His meds keep him stable in a way that he'd never had for years before, even when he wasn't having anxiety spirals. Is your DH that against therapy and meds?

As for support systems, there's got to be something in your area. Have you looked through the local stuff here to see if there's anyone local to you?


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## Funny Face

Thank you for your replies. I am reading every one and thinking about them. I am so grateful to have somewhere to just say these things out loud.

Dh is now on medication but I still think he needs a higher dose.

We are in marriage counseling together and I am really feeling that this is a bad idea right now. Since we started counseling things have gotten worse. I mean, we have good moments and we are both REALLY trying but overall my mental health and coping with stress has plummeted. I honestly feel like trying to be in a relationship with him is like connecting myself to a deep and endless sadness. In the last 9 months that he has been here (as opposed to when he was too busy and I was solo parenting) I feel like I've developed second hand depression.

I might be wrong, but that's how it feels.

Before I coped as well as possible with having small babies, limited funds and a scarce support system. I was able to look on the bright side and to figure out daily what the good things were and hope that in the future those things would eventually change.

But in trying to come to unity in our life plan and align myself with him I feel like I've borrowed his deep discontent. It's soul sucking.

I saw a doctor and they put me on an anti depressant not long after I started this thread. Then I was getting worse. I had increased anxiety and I had this flat feeling that was almost spooky, so the doc took me off meds and says she doesn't think any other SSRIs will work for me and can't recommend anything else because I'm bfing.

I went along but now I'm going to see a different doc this week and get another opinion. Things are getting worse. I'm worse than before. I have very little desire to go on and if there is a chance that a medication can help with that then I need to find it.

I have a hard time with people telling me to think of the good things and certainly EVERYTHING isn't bad. It's hard to hear because I KNOW that and I try to do that. I'm trying so hard I feel like I will just burst into flames one day from trying.

It's going from laughing and reading to my kids, tickling them and telling silly stories to feel so angry and panicked that I wish they never existed that is terrifying. I have both experiences multiple times a day. The ups and downs are so extreme they scare me.

Despite trying there is this underlying unrest that never goes away lately and this PANIC and overwhelming sadness that jumps on me throughout the day and I can't think my way out of it though I've tried.

Every time the baby cries I want to run away. Every time I have to weather my dd's violent tantrums or try to feed her I want to run away.

All I want is to tell my husband we need to take a break. To work on ourselves separately. That his presence is killing me. But when I try to say it the words never come out. I'm too afraid to say them.

He is trying like he's never tried before. Falling short, but trying. And it scares me that I've waited for this for 6 years and now it doesn't seem like enough.


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## swd12422

I'm so sorry. I certainly didn't mean to be insensitive....

Have you told the marriage counselor that this is where you have ended up since you started counseling together? Maybe there is something else to be done, either separate counseling or another tack the sessions can take? It is a good sign that he is trying so hard, and it's also crazy-making to have to watch him struggle to "try" and then have him still falling short. Telling him he's falling short probably wouldn't be helpful.

I hope that you can find some way to figure out what you need and how to get it.


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## mama2004

I think you are amazingly strong, Funny Face. I haven't read this whole thread, only the beginning and this page, so I apologize if I'm completely off track. Based on your most recent reply, is there any way that you could restructure things for a while? You say that (roughly) your dh is trying hard, but you are feeling drained by him. Is there a way that, without too much disruption in the lives of your babes/breastfeeding and care issues, you could work something out so that you have some space? Clearly defined? So that maybe, you were on all day, but he comes home and for x number of hours, you are off? Maybe even a temporarily separate living arrangement (don't know how far out of the realm of possibilities that might be)? Maybe even just a few days a week? So that you don't feel the weight of a marriage and adult relationship on top of all the childcare duties that you have. Maybe something like, "Dh, I love you and want to work on our relationship/ourselves, and I honestly don't have the emotional resources or wherewithal right now. What I need is some space first. Free of obligations or others' needs or anything at all, how can we find a way to create something like that?"

Would it be possible to divide and conquer that somehow? That might allow you to put it in terms of what you need at the moment, rather than what he isn't able to give. Maybe that's not what you need, but what if, for example, every Tuesday and Thursday--day or night, maybe both, he was either gone, or he was home evenings and you were gone--out of the house or not. Maybe to individual counseling, or just somewhere else for a while? It seems like you desperately need some breathing room. I wish I could magically grant that to you. Is there any way at all to find that kind of space for yourself, even if it's just to stay afloat to begin with?


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## D_McG

How are you doing with the basics - getting enough sleep? Getting a break? Diet/sunlight?

I mean clearly that's not going to be enough but I'm just curious how that is going.


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## bodhitree

Just a couple thoughts about the medication aspect of things....are you able to see an actual psychiatrist? If there are difficulties finding a medication that will work, then a psychiatrist will probably be more of a help than a primary care doc. Maybe you're already doing that, but I thought I'd mention it just in case.

Also, I'm not sure how old your kiddos are, but if bfing stands in the way of getting effective treatment for your depression, it would be worthwhile to think about weaning. I know we all consider bfing to be tremendously important, and I know it would be hard to think about cutting it short, but for most families I would say that untreated depression is going to be far more damaging than formula feeding. You need to take care of yourself and bring some joy and hope back into your life, and that might require letting go of some attachments to how you thought you would do things, you know? You don't have to be a superhero and just endure this crushing depression so that your kiddos can continue to nurse. The weight of that responsibility on top of everything else sounds almost unbearable to me. Anyway, this is obviously your decision and depends on what your new doctor has to say, but I did just want to say that there are situations when weaning is absolutely the right thing to do, and it's possible that this is one of them.


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## Linda on the move

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Funny Face*
> 
> All I want is to tell my husband we need to take a break. To work on ourselves separately. That his presence is killing me. But when I try to say it the words never come out. I'm too afraid to say them.
> 
> He is trying like he's never tried before. Falling short, but trying. And it scares me that I've waited for this for 6 years and now it doesn't seem like enough.


here's an idea -- call your therapist and leave this as a voice message. When I've been in therapy, 99% of the time, if I call my therapist, I get put into voice mail (because they are pretty much always with clients). It might be easier to say this to a recording machine than to a person, and it might be easier to tell the therapist first rather than your husband. But then it would be out there, and it then it would be your therapist job to help you figure out how to actually say it out loud.


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## ~Boudicca~

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bodhitree*
> 
> Just a couple thoughts about the medication aspect of things....are you able to see an actual psychiatrist? If there are difficulties finding a medication that will work, then a psychiatrist will probably be more of a help than a primary care doc. Maybe you're already doing that, but I thought I'd mention it just in case.
> 
> Also, I'm not sure how old your kiddos are, but if bfing stands in the way of getting effective treatment for your depression, it would be worthwhile to think about weaning. I know we all consider bfing to be tremendously important, and I know it would be hard to think about cutting it short, but for most families I would say that untreated depression is going to be far more damaging than formula feeding. You need to take care of yourself and bring some joy and hope back into your life, and that might require letting go of some attachments to how you thought you would do things, you know? You don't have to be a superhero and just endure this crushing depression so that your kiddos can continue to nurse. The weight of that responsibility on top of everything else sounds almost unbearable to me. Anyway, this is obviously your decision and depends on what your new doctor has to say, but I did just want to say that there are situations when weaning is absolutely the right thing to do, and it's possible that this is one of them.


I second this. I am a die-hard extended breastfeeding mom but if you are emotionally and mentally overextended to the point where you are wishing that you or your kids never existed, then I think you should take weaning to go on different meds under serious consideration. You are in a scary place right now. Untreated depression can have some really awful repercussions on families.


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## kayleesmom

so sorry you are feeling this way. wanted to send along hugs.


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## LynnS6

Anxiety sucks. Depression sucks. I'm sorry you're having to deal with this. Linda's idea of calling up the therapist and leaving a voice mail is a good one. Another thought is to print out what you wrote in your last post and take it with you.

Would it be possible for you and your dh to do counseling separately for a while? It sounds to me like you're right: You each need to tend to yourselves before you can tend to a relationship. You're drowning, and the couple's therapy is dragging you down.

Do you have an actual psychiatrist or a general practitioner. If it's a GP, please seek out a psychiatrist. They know the meds and are more up on the combos that are safe for breastfeeding. Just because one SSRI didn't help doesn't mean another one won't. If you have anxiety, some of the ones (SNRIs?) will make that WORSE. I was able to get meds (SSRI) that was safe for breastfeeding. I couldn't take some drugs (like Xanax) but others ARE OK. I breastfed both my kids while on an SSRI. They're bright, creative, interesting kids. With all the usual kid issues, but nothing more.

Hang in there -- I know it's a really hard space to be in. It WILL get better. Really. You can't see that space now, but some day, you will. Repeat that to yourself as a mantra if you need to.

And if you feel like you really can't handle it, call your husband and tell him you need to go to the ER. It's OK to admit that you need a lot of help, NOW. I've been to the ER because of anxiety. The only thing I wish was that I didn't have that much anxiety to begin with. I don't regret going.


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## Laggie

Your last post is scary to me. I really hope you get some help fast.

I think you need to say the things you are scared to say to the therapist and your husband - that's the whole point of therapy, if you're not being 100% honest you are just wasting your time. If you can't do it with your husband in the room, can you make a private appointment with the therapist?


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## Funny Face

I saw my new GP (he actually isn't 'new' to me as he is my kids doc) last week and my appointment with him went really well. He was so kind and listened so well I cried when I got out to my car. No one has been nice to me like that in so long. He started me on a different SSRI to start and we're going to see how it goes. I'm not seeing a psych- I'm not sure how that works... I've been paying for the therapist out of pocket and would have to look at the cost of a psych. We try to be very careful about what goes on record with the insurance company.

I was able to tell my therapist much of what I said in my last post. I told her that the hyper focus on getting my kids to sleep and getting 'alone' time with dh was feeling like a crushing burden as those are not things I have control over. She says we definitely need to switch directions and re-evaluate if counseling is making things worse. We had a lot going on over the last month and hadn't been in in several weeks so that was not a good thing either.

I am hoping the new meds give me breathing room. I am hoping the new direction in counseling will help. I am hoping I can have enough good days in a row to give me some strength.

I keep trying to get time out of the house but right now dh is working long hours on a project due at the end of the month so I am solo parenting again until then.

Baby's crying need to go. Hoping to update again soon, your thoughts and support are so very appreciated.


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## bodhitree

Good job on going to see the doctor and on talking to the therapist. You are putting good energy into helping yourself feel better, and it WILL start to work!


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## swd12422

Glad to see you took another step!

Also glad to see how many times the word "hope" came up in your post... ;-)


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## Batmom26

Funny Face said:


> And I wanted to be able to just tell someone that.
> 
> I hate this. I don't want to be here anymore. Every moment of every day is about everyone else. I hurt all over and feel I am completely used up.
> 
> I wish I could go back and undo it all. Make it so that none of it ever happened.


 ♡


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