# When it's so bad it's scary.... And dealing with guilt.



## editornj (Jan 4, 2008)

I went back to therapy last night. And the therapist (also an AP mama) pointed out that when you get to a place where mommy is hurting and sad (and much worse), then the benefits of my chosen style of parenting are compromised.

I hope I worded that in an understandable way. For me, it's that my wanting DS to never cry at night is putting me a position where I get very little sleep. And my mental/emotional state has gotten so bad that I'm not the mom I want to be.

But the problem is, if I make a change (which may involve DS crying [with DH]), how do I cope with that guilt?

Here's one example: I sometimes try to nap from 7am-8am (we're up for the day at 3 or 4am). DS cries with DH for that whole hour--nonstop. If I block out the noise with earphones and rest, I cry afterward because DS suffered while I napped.

I think I need mantras. Things to say to myself over and over to help me not feel like a failure and cruel mama.

Thanks for your thoughts.


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

He is about 18 months old? Why is he crying the entire hour with daddy? Is he also tired, and needing to sleep? Or is this a time when he is rested and, presumably, playful?

If this is a tired time for ds (and I think it might be, if he is up at 3 am), can you nap with him?

If it is a rested, playful time, can you dh do something really fun with him? Specifically, it would probably help if they left the house to do something fun. 7 am is tough, but many coffee shops are open (ds could get a milk, or just water with a straw). If it is warm enough, they could go to a playground. My kids were always much more willing to separate from me if it meant _they_ were going to get to do something special and desirable.

As for the guilt, I'd start with choosing language carefully. "Suffering" is a loaded term, and I don't believe your ds is suffering when with your dh. He is sad, but sad is temporary. Mantras: He is safe. Dh loves him and cares for him. It will get better. He is learning to trust dh.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

At some point, I changed my perspective. My dd was very high needs. She still is, at 7, but in a different way (and she sleeps wonderfully now.) But as a baby and toddler, I stopped thinking that my job was to keep her from ever crying, which was simply impossible, to that my job was making sure she never had to cry alone, which I could handle. So stop thinking that you and your dh will always be able to keep her from crying, and just comfort her by keeping her from having to go through the crying alone.

Also, she will outgrow this.










So, some questions. What are the baby's sleep habits? Where does he sleep? What time does he go to bed? How often does he nurse at night? How much does he nap during the day? Do you work or are you home during the day? Let's try to find out what's going wrong. At 18 months, he's able to understand a lot and maybe there's a way to improve things.








again


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

I think that applying a value of all crying bad at this juncture in a child's development is really setting parents up for failure.

Newborns and infants need to be tended to when they cry. Their crying is easily fixed in most cases with the boob or a diaper change.

Older kids are more complex than that and it is not practical or healthy, imo, to think that parents can fix everything and stop all tears. Toddlers cry and rage as part of their developmental emotional process and parents can only do so much to insulate them from growing up.

You won't feel guilty or suffer for long because either your son will adjust very quickly to the change in routine or you will try something else because he doesn't. Kids are adaptable.

I would give a new routine 3-4 days to see how it goes, if the protest and crying isn't dwindling down by then, I would re-evaluate to see if something needs to change.

You need sleep. You have a right to get some rest. Your DC will adjust and continue to thrive.

ETA: Also 18 months is another sleep regression/developmental leap. It's a stormy time anyway with lots of sleep disruption and high emotions.
V


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## editornj (Jan 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
So, some questions. What are the baby's sleep habits? Where does he sleep? What time does he go to bed? How often does he nurse at night? How much does he nap during the day? Do you work or are you home during the day?

YES! I definitely need to change my perspective. And honestly need to meet my needs more. Being pregnant, I don't feel like I'm getting enough sleep, nourishment, or feeding my emotional/intellectual self. To answer your questions (thank you, I'd love your thoughts here):

He's always been a horrible, horrible sleeper. He didn't nap until 11 mos old (I didn't leave the house for 3 months and just drilled a schedule until he napped).

He sleeps on a queen mattress on the floor of his room. Bedtime is about 7:30pm after a bedtime routine (which also really helped when we started it around 10 mos). DH joins him around 10-11pm.

He wakes at 3am and throws a fit, so DH brings him to me and he nurses: nonstop for hours if I let him. I nurse him as long as I can stand (all the while encouraging his sleep, and trying to break his latch), until I get fed up and we get out of bed. Or sometimes breaking the latch repeatedly wakes up DH, and in the dark he'll stand up and ask for the light to be turned up. He's certainly tired (rubbing eyes) but he always rallies--he's happy and ready to play.

If it's a perfect day, he'll nap about two hours (11-1). If he day is disrupted, like he goes to his grandparents' he won't nap at all.

I'm home all day with him. I have never seen him in a "sleepy" or "drowsy" state. The only ways I've seen him "self-soothe" is by kicking his legs (slamming them down on the bed). When he stops kicking, I know he's passed out. Or he practices his words (loudly) until he falls asleep. We stopped nursing to sleep at 12 mos.

sunnmama, I love your suggestions. Going to a bagel or coffee shop sounds perfect. Yes, I admit that at 7am DS is probably tired, since we're up so early. Sometimes we nap this early, then he doesn't sleep again until bedtime, and he's kind of a mess in the afternoon. DS really seems to thrive on a routine/schedule. But we're up at a different time every day: anywhere from 3am to 6am.

Violet2, thanks, I needed that. I think maybe because I'm soooo tired (and pregnant) his crying *still* makes my heart beat fast, my skin turn hot, and makes me sweat. I start to panic a little and just want it to stop... but he's not a baby. And it's doing him a disservice to prevent all cries when he maybe deserves a good cry. I certainly feel better after a good cry when I'm really frustrated, annoyed, upset, etc.


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## MaterPrimaePuellae (Oct 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *editornj* 
YES! I definitely need to change my perspective. And honestly need to meet my needs more. Being pregnant, I don't feel like I'm getting enough sleep, nourishment, or feeding my emotional/intellectual self. To answer your questions (thank you, I'd love your thoughts here):

He's always been a horrible, horrible sleeper. He didn't nap until 11 mos old (I didn't leave the house for 3 months and just drilled a schedule until he napped).

He sleeps on a queen mattress on the floor of his room. Bedtime is about 7:30pm after a bedtime routine (which also really helped when we started it around 10 mos). DH joins him around 10-11pm.

*Why does your DH go in at 10-11 if DS does not wake up until 3? Maybe if someone else were not there we would not wake up as much? (Just a thought)*

He wakes at 3am and throws a fit, so DH brings him to me and he nurses: nonstop for hours if I let him. I nurse him as long as I can stand (all the while encouraging his sleep, and trying to break his latch), until I get fed up and we get out of bed. Or sometimes breaking the latch repeatedly wakes up DH, and in the dark he'll stand up and ask for the light to be turned up. He's certainly tired (rubbing eyes) but he always rallies--he's happy and ready to play.

*You mean it wakes up DS, right, and DS asks for the light to be turned on? My DD very often asks (sounding very chipper!) to get up at 4 am, and I always just tell her no. She is older than your DS, but she has gotten used to this. I will do something else for her (she usually asks for me to rub her back), but I would not (regularly) get up at 3 am and turn on a light at the request of a toddler.
IMO, he is old enough to start to learn that other people have needs, too-- I always tell my DD, "I'm sorry, I know you want to get up, but I am very tired and I need to sleep, and so do you." Even though my DD always seems eager to get up, she almost always goes back to sleep until 6 or 7.
You have my sympathy-- "bad" sleepers are very hard to deal with. My DD was actually worse at your son's age than she is now--she's gotten a lot better. Night weaning helped A LOT with that, and the unexpected bonus of night weaning was that she would ask to just snuggle or hold my hand rather than nurse. It was nice to experience other sorts of "intimacy" with her.

I also agree with the other posters that you child is not suffering by being left w/ your husband! Even if there were no other concerns (the sleeping), if it were me, I would want to start working on helping DS be more happy alone with his father, especially with the new baby coming.

Good luck!
*


.


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## Thalia the Muse (Jun 22, 2006)

It sounds like the single biggest problem is that your whole household is being made to get up at 3 a.m.! Your toddler needs you to teach him the rhythm of sleep and waking times in your family and culture - we don't get up for the day at 3 in the morning. Babies aren't born knowing that, they learn from their family's habits, and it's one of the most helpful things we teach them. So it's really important not to turn on the lights and start the day then just because he thinks he's ready to play -- that teaches him that yes, 3 in the morning is the time to get up.

I think if you had a consistent night/day waking pattern, he might be less tired and emotionally fragile, as well, and better able to cope with the slings and arrows of toddler life -- like having Mommy take a nap while he has fun with his dad.


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## Poekie (Sep 28, 2009)

I have read a book that might be interesting for you to cope with the guilt you feel when your son is crying. It's from the swiss psychologist Aletha Solter. She has studied that small children really need to cry now and then to express their emotions, or to handle the stress that they might experience in daily life. she's absolutely no CIO advocate, and says you can never leave your kid to cry alone. But they do need to express their feelings, which can be by crying in someones loving arms. I don't know the title in English because I read a Dutch translation but it was something like "The use of crying". This is the website: http://www.awareparenting.com/solter.htm


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

I agree with staying in bed, with the lights off, at 3 or 4 am. Both of my kids did that kind of thing as toddlers. We coslept, but what I did was just offer to nurse, or a cuddle, or a hand to pat them. They would toss and turn and be restless, sometimes sitting up and playing (and I would ask them to "lay down and go to sleep...it is sleeping time"). For us, the pattern would often be that they would be back to sleep in about 2 hours. So, for that 2 hours, I was awake but resting in bed (eyes closed, being boring), but then I would fall asleep again at 5 or 6 am and sleep with them until 8 or 9 am. And then we would both get up for the day.


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

Does your DC have a lovey? If not I would get one asap because it will help him handle his emotions. Esp with a new baby coming.

Also, just put the boobs away at night, if you aren't opposed to night weaning.

I find that as long as I am firm and don't give in about whatever it is, the crying/tantruming stops.

The first night of any change is always hell. Doesn't matter how AP you are, change sucks and elicits protest.

The second night is only marginally better.

The third...things usually start to turn around.

Other than that, b/c he is 18 months just be aware that his reactions may be that much more extreme due to the sleep regression.

Just b/c you have another LO coming, I would push through to see if any of this can be resolved so you can at least get a few months of better sleep before starting over again.

V


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## Harmony08 (Feb 4, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnmama* 
I agree with staying in bed, with the lights off, at 3 or 4 am. Both of my kids did that kind of thing as toddlers. We coslept, but what I did was just offer to nurse, or a cuddle, or a hand to pat them. They would toss and turn and be restless, sometimes sitting up and playing (and I would ask them to "lay down and go to sleep...it is sleeping time"). For us, the pattern would often be that they would be back to sleep in about 2 hours. So, for that 2 hours, I was awake but resting in bed (eyes closed, being boring), but then I would fall asleep again at 5 or 6 am and sleep with them until 8 or 9 am. And then we would both get up for the day.

this is my life right now


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## Harmony08 (Feb 4, 2009)

Why doesn't your DH get up with him when he wakes up between 3 and 6 and you can sleep until 8? I know it isn't a long term solution but a full night ot two and you will feel much better and be able to think clearly about all of this.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I agree that I might try giving him a lovey.

Also, you could try nightweaning, though it might be a bit early. You could also try giving him water at 3 am instead of nursing him. Like, keep a sippy cup of water by the bed. My daughter took to that change really well at 24 months, but I didn't think try it at 18 months. I suspect it wouldn't have gone nearly as well at 18 months, but it might be worth a try.

I would NOT turn on the light at 3 am. He has to get used to the fact that it is the middle of the night. Eventually he'll give up, get bored, and go back to sleep if he can't get everyone to wake up with him.


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## srs (Nov 8, 2007)

I'm another one who won't turn the light on until 6am. Sometimes this causes lots of tears, sometimes it doesn't, but as a family we can't get up and function at 3am.


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## rainyday (Apr 28, 2006)

I saw this and couldn't read without posting. First,







It is so very hard.

As some of the other posters have said, the waking at 3 am or so is not that unusual for babes and toddlers. My DS did it too, and I was always thankful that at least it wasn't 5 a.m. like one of my friend's babes. At 3 am, we could soothe and cuddle, and he'd eventually go back to sleep, at 5 am, my friend was doomed because her husband had to get up at 5:30 for work, which made it pretty hard to argue that it was sleeping time!

We did pretty much what the other posters did. We just kept whispering, "Shh. Shh. It's still night time. It's still time to sleep." And we'd gently lay him back down. We also found that DS did better in his own room than with us at about that age. For some reason, by that age DS seemed to find our company at night really exciting, and he'd want to play and poke us and kick us... DH and I traded off going into his room and soothing DS and encouraging him to go back to sleep. It sucked because we had to get out of bed and be awake for a while, but bringing him back to our bed meant that we'd be in for a longer stretch. In DS's room, one of us would sit on the floor by the crib (I'd end up stretched out on the floor) and reach through the slats to pat him and soothe him.

We hated hearing him cry and fuss (it was mostly fussing for our DS), but we also knew that we couldn't survive getting up for the day at 3 am, and we did not want to start setting that pattern. Plus, DS was getting more and more sleep deprived and cranky; he really needed those extra few hours of sleep. We also wouldn't leave him to cry and fuss on his own, but we decided that the heartbreak of patting and soothing him while he fussed and sometimes cried was worth it to us to get our whole family back on a better schedule - a schedule where we weren't in danger of falling asleep while driving.


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Do NOT adjust your lives to be entirely by your son's schedule. Teach him to sleep at 3am, or at least to stay in bed and 'rest'. My MIL has said repeatedly that when my BF was a baby/toddler/small child that she stayed up with him whenever he was awake - even if he was happy just to be by himself. He TO THIS DAY as a 27 year old man expects everyone to adjust to his schedule, his wants, his needs, etc b/c of the way he was raised. IT DRIVES ME NUTS!!!!! DO NOT cater to your childs every want. If he NEEDS you in the middle of the night (he's scared, upset, crying, wet his bed/himself - a clear need) then thats different. Wanting to turn the lights on is not a need.

As for not napping during the day, can you try a 'quiet time' during the mid morning? He can read, play quietly on his own while you are in the room also resting? My son doesn't like to nap either, and its always a struggle, but is easier to deal with at 8.5months than 18months.








this too shall pass (I say this to myself ALOT)


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## Rowansmama (Feb 17, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *editornj* 
Here's one example: I sometimes try to nap from 7am-8am (we're up for the day at 3 or 4am). DS cries with DH for that whole hour--nonstop. If I block out the noise with earphones and rest, I cry afterward because DS suffered while I napped.

I think I need mantras. Things to say to myself over and over to help me not feel like a failure and cruel mama.

Thanks for your thoughts.

First off, you are doing NOTHING wrong and have nothing to feel guilty about by having DH take your son for an hour, even if he does cry the whole time! He's not hurt, he's not hungry, and he's with his other parent. You deserve, and need that time, and your son is not suffering!

I know it's really hard mama! Here's your new mantra:

*I am the best mama I know how to be. I love my son, but I have to take care of my needs too in order to be a good mama.*

If you're tired, resentful, stressed out, you're not able to be your best.

And also, the fact is, toddlers cry! DD cries sometimes I think for no reason whatsoever - except that she's frustrated. I can soothe her, and comfort her, but often I think she needs to just get through it herself. Maybe you should remind yourself that even if your DS IS crying, it's not because you're doing anything wrong - it's just that he's 18 months and he doesn't understand some things and some things are frustrating.

Sorry, I'm totally going off topic here! Just want you to know that we go through rough patches with DD at night, but they always pass and things go back to normal. It will get better in time! But also, take care of yourself too, and get sleep whenever you can!


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## chocolatefish (Sep 21, 2008)

I don't have any advice on the sleeping thing (except to agree that the earliest we will put lights on here is 6am) but on the responding to his cries...

DS is 21 months. Last night he was tired before bedtime, and cranky and throwing his toys around the room rather than helping daddy to put them away. Daddy picked them up and put them on a high shelf that DS cannot reach and took him off for his bath. DS was howling to get the toys back and ran back to the playroom while Daddy was checking the bath. I came to see what all the noise was about and, when DS cried and pointed at the toys I gave them to him - even though I knew that DH had taken them off him for a good reason. Why did I do that? Because 21 months of BFing my LO on demand have taught me to respond instantly to meet his needs! When I hear him cry I hear a need unfulfilled and I leap to fulfill it without even thinking about it!! But he's getting too old for that now, I have to learn to distinguish between needs and wants for him. It's going to be hard but it's part of us both growing up I guess! DH is way ahead of me on this because he hasn't been conditioned in the same way LOL!


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

This is more generic parenting advice than specific to your sleep issues, but this "insight" has helped me tremendously over the years. It's based on some of Althea Solter's writings, and just my own experience as a mom.

In a child's first year, your job is to meet their needs. This means that preventing crying is your first goal because that's an infant's only way of expressing a need.

As a child moves into being a toddler, your job shifts. You no longer are in "prevent all crying" mode. Your job becomes to teach them how to deal with the powerful emotions that they have. At 18 months, crying is the only way your son has of expressing a powerful emotion. By preventing that crying, you're denying him the 'right' to those emotions. You're also teaching him that strong emotions are so 'scary' that mom will do anything to prevent them. That's also not a good thing for him to learn.

Your son isn't being abandoned to the wolves. He's with a loving, caring parent. He's learning, that even though he's upset, Daddy still is there with him, and Mommy comes back.

A number of times recently I've been reminded of the wisdom of letting a child cry until they're done crying. This isn't 'cry-it-out'. I stay with my dd when this happens. It's happened 2-3 times in the last month when dd has been overtired and very upset. We went upstairs and lay down together. And she cried and cried and cried. She complained and cried. (She's 5 and quite verbal, even when upset.) Then, eventually, and often quite suddenly, she's done. She moved on, and she was back to her cheerful, playful self.

But if she doesn't get that opportunity to cry, she whines, she pouts, she's cranky. Given the opportunity to get out of her system, she's able to move on. And she's not afraid of her powerful emotions. She's learning to deal with them.

Don't fear tears. They make you uncomfortable for a reason. But your job is not to avoid them, but to help your son work through them. You also have a responsibility to teach him that there are other loving people in the world who can care for him when he's upset. Both of those are hard things to learn (maybe harder for mom than toddler!)


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

P.S. I agree that getting up at 3 am is crazy! It's quite possible that he's so overtired that he can't wind down. I would definitely not turn the light on until 6 am or so. Honestly, since it's going to be a hard week or so to get into the 'sleep until 6 am' routine, what about night weaning completely? The nursing seems to be NOT helping him get back to sleep. Just a thought.


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

My DS at that age would have been thrilled to get up at 3 or 4 or 5am for the day. But DH & I refused. I suspect many toddlers would be thrilled to get up. But you just can't let them. I would like to sleep in till 8am, but am willing to get up ~6:30-7:30, but no earlier (unless I *HAVE* to, in order to be somewhere... like co-op or the airport or something). Theres no reason that your DC has to get up at 3am. So, don't let them. Don't turn on a light, don't get out of bed, don't read a book or play or do anything 'fun'. They'll learn that waking up at 3am is pointless and stop. You'll likely need to move bedtime back to 8 or 9pm (thats genearlly when we can get DS1 down), but seriously, don't indulge him in getting up at 3-4am. Just. Don't. Do. It.

And I can totally sympathize on the 'never looks tired' - the only sign that my DS is exhausted is that he gets extremely cranky, whiney and just becomes a pest. Thats when we know its sleepy time. I think he fell asleep maybe once completely on his own out of total and complete exhaustion - and it was hysterical, cause' we both realized he'd gotten quiet and found him, literally squatting in front of a chair passed out.


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## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

"A number of times recently I've been reminded of the wisdom of letting a child cry until they're done crying. This isn't 'cry-it-out'. I stay with my dd when this happens. It's happened 2-3 times in the last month when dd has been overtired and very upset. We went upstairs and lay down together. And she cried and cried and cried. She complained and cried. (She's 5 and quite verbal, even when upset.) Then, eventually, and often quite suddenly, she's done. She moved on, and she was back to her cheerful, playful self."

It took my a loooooong time to learn this. Basically, I practiced on my first kid and got it right with my second









And I'll add to the chorus of "don't get the household up for the day at 3 a.m." You are about to have somebody in your life who will NEED you to wake up and nurse them at 3 a.m. (and 5 a.m., and then up for the day at 7 a.m., etc etc and that's if you're LUCKY.)

Thank your dh for being such a great parent, tell him that you trust him to deal with the situation, go into your bedroom and DO NOT COME OUT UNTIL 8 AM. You are pregnant. If your dh is blessed with a work schedule that permits you to sleep until 8 a.m., DO IT. Your baby inside needs you to get healthy and stay healthy!


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## FernG (Feb 14, 2008)

I agree with the ideas of teaching your DS to stay in bed at 3:00am and also guiding him and allowing him to express his emotions. My DD is 18 months and high-needs. I have a routine of telling her, "Wow. You feel (insert emotion). I'm right here (doing a chore). Let me know when you are ready for a hug." I keep going back and offering a hug every few minutes. It's gotten to the point now, that she will walk to me with her arms open for a hug when she is done screaming. She will scream louder and longer if I hold her than if I stay with her but let her scream in her own space.

She also does cluster nursing around 3:00am. Have you tried either letting your DS sleep alone to see if he will sleep through the night or sleeping in the same room with him so that you can latch him on before he screams a lot and really wakes himself up?

Have you looked into food intollerances? DD has some and they definitely affect her emotions.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

My oldest DD did this same thing at this age! She would wake up at 2 or 3 am and be ready to get up for the day. Sometimes I would just lay with her and try to get her to go to sleep, sometimes I would get up and put on a movie for her and fall asleep on the couch, but we lived through it and eventually she started sleeping better. I hope it passes soon


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## editornj (Jan 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chocolatefish* 
Because 21 months of BFing my LO on demand have taught me to respond instantly to meet his needs! When I hear him cry I hear a need unfulfilled and I leap to fulfill it without even thinking about it!! But he's getting too old for that now, I have to learn to distinguish between needs and wants for him. It's going to be hard but it's part of us both growing up I guess! DH is way ahead of me on this because he hasn't been conditioned in the same way LOL!











I totally agree.


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## editornj (Jan 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FernG* 
She also does cluster nursing around 3:00am. Have you tried either letting your DS sleep alone to see if he will sleep through the night or sleeping in the same room with him so that you can latch him on before he screams a lot and really wakes himself up?

Have you looked into food intollerances? DD has some and they definitely affect her emotions.

Yes, he woke more when sleeping alone. He definitely peeks to see if one of us is with him. Often he'll wake up, crawl closer to one of us, and fall back asleep. I'm up watching all this. DH doesn't even know it happens. That's why DH sleeps with him now.

I really haven't gone that route. Food sensitivities scare me, or at least the project of finding them does. You all know how it is when you are sooo dog-gone tired...


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## Surfacing (Jul 19, 2005)




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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
I agree that I might try giving him a lovey.

Yep, pick something you can live with for up to ten years though. My kids LOVE theirs and find them soothing up to age eight or so.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamadelbosque* 
Theres no reason that your DC has to get up at 3am. So, don't let them. Don't turn on a light, don't get out of bed, don't read a book or play or do anything 'fun'. They'll learn that waking up at 3am is pointless and stop. You'll likely need to move bedtime back to 8 or 9pm (thats genearlly when we can get DS1 down), but seriously, don't indulge him in getting up at 3-4am. Just. Don't. Do. It.

This!!! If getting up for the day at 3:00 a.m. doesn't work for you (and really, it shouldn't) then don't do it. You are the adult. You know better. No isn't a bad word - or deed. He doesn't know that getting up then is a bad idea for all of you. Teach him by refusing to get up. No light. No books. Boring, boring, boring. Monotone voice as you lay there "nighttime - time to sleep". This does NOT make you a bad mom!!!! It makes you a good mom! Some things that we do are not what our kids would pick - but are what are best for them.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *editornj* 
Often he'll wake up, crawl closer to one of us, and fall back asleep. *I'm up watching all this*. DH doesn't even know it happens. That's why DH sleeps with him now.

Why are you up watching them sleep? This is prime sleep time for you too! I would leave him be in his room, and if he wakes up then one of you could take him back to his room and lie down with him. But maybe your dp rolling over or starting to snore wakes him up? And did ds ever sleep in a crib? I'm wondering if getting out of bed being so accessible makes it easier for him to be "up" when he wakes up at 3:00 a.m.?

And to ease your guilt - I'd focus more on how your in utero baby needs you to get some sleep. Your 1 1/2 year old will be fine. I wouldn't let the bad habit of 3:00 a.m. start to the day go one day longer. It just will make the eventual change that much harder. You can fix it now before baby comes. It will be a tough change but so much better once you do!


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## editornj (Jan 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten* 
Why are you up watching them sleep? This is prime sleep time for you too! I would leave him be in his room, and if he wakes up then one of you could take him back to his room and lie down with him. But maybe your dp rolling over or starting to snore wakes him up? And did ds ever sleep in a crib?

I'm just on high alert. At every movement, I wake up. I'm willing to try yet again to see if DS will sleep longer stretches without someone next to him.

DS never, ever slept in a crib. We tried for a long, long time to at least get him to nap in there, or sleep the first stretch of the night in there. He would be *dead* asleep, like when you lift and drop limbs and he's just totally passed out. We'd put him in the crib and he'd be up, wide awake, and wouldn't go back to sleep for hours. It was hell.

Anyway, thanks for all the tips, mamas. Update is DH has been taking the 3-4am waking. But anytime after that DS gets passed to me, where he nurses on and off until we get out of bed. I admit it's almost always before 6. But sometimes I just can't stand it any more--lying there awake nursing.

The next step will be for me to not nurse DS when he's passed to me (so DH can get a smidge of solid sleep before work). I'd love to rest up for that, though, because it will be trying. He will scream. If he's up at 4, he *will* scream until 6am if that's how long we stay in bed. One day I'll be thankful for the spunk my LO has, right?









Thanks again!


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## Mama_Meme (Apr 18, 2007)

My babe wasn't that needy, but was certainly not a good sleeper (waking 10+ times/night and screaming uncontrollably if I wasn't nursing her or with her).
I went a little crazy and finally reached my breaking point where I knwe i wasn't the mother I wanted to be.
So, we nightweaned. And yes, I listen to her cry with DH. And yes, it breaks my heart.

What I do is this: I pray. You don't have to be any specific religion. I just ask any angel, guardian spirit, any force that exists to help my little daughter feel comforted be available to her. I pray and pray and pray. i visualise angels wrapping their wings around her and keeping her safe and feeling loved.
I also know that she is in very loving hands with her daddy, though she may be unimpressed by it.
And, now, things have calmed down for the most part and I sleep sometimes 5-6 hrs at a time! it's amazing! I feel like a different person and a much better mother.

You can tell yourself that your baby will be much happier with a more functional mother. It's true.

Blessings to you, in your journey through this.


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## AlicesMama (Nov 23, 2008)

Yes, I would go for night-weaning too at 3am. He probably would like to sleep longer but just doesn't know how to do it without the boobie









Yes he will scream for the first few times, but it sounds like he's very bright and will quickly learn that it's possible to fall asleep without the breast. And for him it may even be something of a relief. I sometimes think these kids are as frustrated with it all as we are and yet we are the only ones that can actually do something about it, we have to be the parent and take control at that point.

Also, during the summer when DD was waking way too early, I would let her get up and wonder around the room in darkness. She could play but she wasnt' allowed to leave the room. So she would wake at 4.45am and get up around 5.30am and I would insist that we did not leave the room until 6:45am. Yes she would cry towards the end, but I felt she had to learn that I needed to rest. There weren't really any toys in the room, she would just potter, looking at the hair-brush, the pillows, that kind of thing. It was supposed to be boring.

Really hope it improves soon


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