# Where's the line between AP and "smothering"? *see note added 02/02



## Bena (Jan 26, 2008)

Note (added Feb.2)
My intention with this post was not to start a debate on my friend's specific actions (which is why I don't go in details), but about smothering in general. I only mention this friend as background to explain how I came about to wondering about this. I'm not implying that she is or is not smothering her child, I'm not in her shoes and cannot be a judge of that.

I'm curious about people's opinions.

Without going into details, I'm growing more and more uncomfortable by a friend's behaviour towards her 12 month old. She's often saying to people "We're doing AP", but I'm not so sure her behavior is about her son, but more about her own insecurity.

Of course, I don't think I'd ever bring this up with her...I'm not going to stick my nose in someone else's parenting.

But that did get me thinking about the line between AP and smothering (or helicopter parents, which, as a high-school teacher, I deal with too often, sadly)

I'm re-reading Dr. Sears' Baby book on AP, and he clearly states that AP is _not_ smothering, and how smothering is damaging and more about the mother's (or father's) insecurity. I agree, but he doesn't go into details about where AP ends and smothering begins.

I'm curious about people's opinion!


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## Polliwog (Oct 29, 2006)

I think it's hard to answer since you aren't giving any details about the situation.


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## Chamomile Girl (Nov 4, 2008)

I figure that AP is about responding to the needs of your child, while smothering is trying to make your child conform to your needs.

As another high school teacher I too have seen many examples of the second!


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## Sk8ermaiden (Feb 13, 2008)

This is an interesting question, and I'm sure you'll get a hundred different answers.

To me, smothering, or helicopter parenting is when you you don't let your kids explore or be kids, parenting out of fear I guess, or a belief that they can't do anything without you.

AP is just being there when they need you. I guess I really don't see any real similarity between AP and smothering. I think you can have smothering parents who are totally un-AP and AP parents who smother...


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## Polliwog (Oct 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chamomile Girl* 
I figure that AP is about responding to the needs of your child, while smothering is trying to make your child conform to your needs.

As another high school teacher I too have seen many examples of the second!

The child is 12 months old, so those are pretty intertwined.


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## Kuba'sMama (Oct 8, 2004)

Like the pp said, I don't really see any connection either. Smothering is not a healthy way to parent, and you can find smothering parents on either side of the spectrum. I don't think it has anything to do with AP or not.
AP is focused on breastfeeding on demand, co-sleeping when desirable by everyone (ie. not forcing the older child to co-sleep when they want their own bed), baby wearing, but not when the child would rather run around and explore. So basically like pp said meeting the child's needs and not making the child meet your own.
Smothering has negative connotations to me, such as hovering over a happily playing child, spoon feeding and eager self feeder, dressing a child who wants and is ready to dress themselves, protecting the child from "dangers" which don't exist... etc, etc.


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## harrietsmama (Dec 10, 2001)

As a recovering helicopter parent, I think at 12 mos it is a very fine line. I never did the scoop 'em up and oh poor baby when they fell or anything, which I think is smothering - let them decide first if they are actually hurt, then comfort them. Otherwise, oh, you fell down. But now that mine are a little older, I have to try hard not to be right over them in the pool for example at my Aunt's house(they are 8 &10, and non-swimmers) - there are 15 or so adults right around the pool plus several swimming kids in the pool. I *can* just put them in a life jacket and let them figure out how to move around in the water, rather than stand by the pool wringing my hands and directing what they are doing. I am still struggling with the apron strings but I am trying


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## Grace and Granola (Oct 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kuba'sMama* 
Like the pp said, I don't really see any connection either. Smothering is not a healthy way to parent, and you can find smothering parents on either side of the spectrum. I don't think it has anything to do with AP or not.
AP is focused on breastfeeding on demand, co-sleeping when desirable by everyone (ie. not forcing the older child to co-sleep when they want their own bed), baby wearing, but not when the child would rather run around and explore. So basically like pp said meeting the child's needs and not making the child meet your own.
Smothering has negative connotations to me, such as hovering over a happily playing child, spoon feeding and eager self feeder, dressing a child who wants and is ready to dress themselves, protecting the child from "dangers" which don't exist... etc, etc.


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## zinemama (Feb 2, 2002)

Oh, I see the connection.

To me, it's when parents (usually mothers) won't let their children (babies/toddlers) be alone with anyone else, even the father in cases. Where they fall into the trap of feeling that only they can care for and meet every single one of their child's needs. Some have interpreted AP to mean they must wear the baby every moment for fear of not being sufficiently "attached" - whether or not the kid wants to be worn or in fact would rather be exploring and crawling around.

I think smothering - in some cases - is AP misinterpreted.


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## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

A 12 month old is a baby. A mother responding to a baby or a little kid has no relationship whatsoever to not allowing a high school aged person to grow up.

My older dd didn't even walk at 12 months. Me carrying her in the sling in a hip carry hasn't seemed to impede her progress as a 9 year old.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I don't think you can tell whether someone is crossing the line between AP and smothering when their child is so young, though I do agree with the pp who said that smothering can include not even letting the father meet the child's needs and wearing the baby when the baby wants to crawl around and explore. Kids change so rapidly at that age that it is hard to adjust quickly to their new abilities so sometimes it may look like smothering when really you are just starting to get used to your child's new abilities in a safe way. When you are a new mom you also tend to be overprotective and do to much a lot of times, but that evens out as your child grows. I have noticed that teachers tend to be very black and white about what they view as right and wrong parent interactions and I think you should ask yourself if you are judging her harshly because you assume that this is how the helicopter parents started out or if she is really smothering her one year old. If you were a teacher in an infant room then I think you would be coming from an informed place, but there are huge differences between infants and high school age children and a mother who seems to be smothering now is probably not going to be doing so a few years down the road, especially if she has more kids.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Polliwog* 
The child is 12 months old, so those are pretty intertwined.


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## annekh23 (Nov 1, 2008)

If you have to justify your behaviour as because it's AP then I'd have to question the reasons. I don't justify anything I do by saying it's AP, it's because of a parenting style I subscribe to etc etc I just say I'm meeting her needs, if I get a response that suggests that I've misread a need, I'll consider it, I'm not perfect, if I get a response that says that need doesn't need to be met, I'll disagree, but unless I need to communicate strongly to someone to back off and name a parenting style to indicate that, then saying it's AP would seem quite defensive.

AP for one child is smothering for another, because AP is about needs not rules.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I am trying to picture what smotering a 12-month-old looks like, and I'm having trouble. More details would work.

I have known people who seem to go beyond AP in the name of AP. I know someone who refuses to drive the car if her baby dd doesn't seem to want to be in the car, even if a sibling misses something, even if they miss a doctor's appointment, no matter what. She calls that AP but I don't. I think you keep working to help the little one handle car rides, but you can't put the rest of the family's lives on hold until the baby hits 3 or whenever kids relax about the car. That's the closest I could think of, but I don't know if it falls under the category of smothering. I would just call it unrealistic or unfair to the other kids or somthing like that.

Making a kid co-sleep who doesn't want to co-sleep? Not letting other people ever hold or interact with the child for fear that would cause problems with the parental attachment? Withholding solids from a child who clearly wants them so they only breastfeed? I don't know. I guess maybe those kinds of things would qualify.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

I think it's more common for people to be accused of smothering when they don't force a baby to go to other people or introduce solids at 4 months or make the kid cry to sleep.

that said, it is weird that she'd say it was because of AP and not just that it was right for her child. That might actually be the line right there


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## Bena (Jan 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kuba'sMama* 
So basically like pp said meeting the child's needs and not making the child meet your own.
Smothering has negative connotations to me, such as hovering over a happily playing child, spoon feeding and eager self feeder, dressing a child who wants and is ready to dress themselves, protecting the child from "dangers" which don't exist... etc, etc.

My feelings exactly.

This post comes from the fact that I've noticed some of these exact behaviors with my friend, and it makes me uncomfortable...(for ex:she spoonfeeds him, claiming he won't eat by himself, but I've seen him play with a spoon and bring it to his mouth; another time, we went to a playgroup and she held on to him though he was wiggling to get to a toy; and last week, at my house, I gave him a stacking tower and she sat on the floor next to him and "showed" him how to use it)

But, like I've mentionned in the original post, I'm not going to do anything about this, as I don't think it's any of my business...it just got me thinking.

The "smothering" vs "AP" is due to her "justification" of alot of her behavior on "We're doind AP". I completely agree that smothering can associated to any parenting philosophy.
As for the helicopter parent thing, I agree that a "smothering" parent does not necessarily become a helicopter parent later on, and I'm sorry if it seems like that is what I implied. I do think, however, that they are similar behaviours, regardless of how you call it, and that it can hapen at any age (except, of course, in the case of young infants...but even though a 12 month old is still a baby, they are at an age where they do have abilities that they need to be allowed to develop, andI think smothering happens when we get in the way of these abilities, IMO)


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I think they are totally different things. To me, AP is parenting in a manner to foster an appropriate attachment- wearing when baby wants, not forcing separation before baby is ready etc. For dd that meant that I didn't leave her with even dh until well into toddler-hood, that was dd. Ds was fine hanging out with dh by a few months and Grammy and Granddaddy by a year.

Smothering is *not* respecting your child's needs and appropriate development.

It is neither appropriate to force separation nor constant attachment.

-Angela


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## PlayaMama (Apr 1, 2007)

this is her first right? when i was a mom the first time around i really freaked out if my ds fussed in any way whatsoever and put the boob in his mouth at the slightest provocation because i didn't know what else to do. i also let him explore on his own (which it sounds like she's not doing) but i was afraid i'd damage him if i left him in another room and he started to worry.

the second time around, i know that i can have a minute to go pee if i need to and i don't have to nurse when i'm doing it. i'm more relaxed and i don't worry that my dd is going to become "unattached" if i don't respond to her within seconds any time she raises her voice.

i hope she'll relax a little bit as she grows as a mother. i did.


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## Tjej (Jan 22, 2009)

It sounds like she's a first time mom who is blaming her parenting choices on AP. Next time she does it, you could kindly and naively ask her how that particular behavior is a manifestation of AP.









The toy thing totally irks me when people do that - toys are for kids! I think it is a perfectionist tendancy that makes a person do that. Could be perfectionism in the feeding thing too. I consciously battle my perfectionism, so I STOP myself from doing these things.

Lap squirming, I'll give her my benefit of the doubt and say I've had to hold squirmy babies who seemed to want other things for reasons that would not be obviously apparent (the kid was really too tired to play and would be a bear if actually let down to play, for instance, but then again if I only had the one kid then I'd have just gone home).

Tjej


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## mata (Apr 20, 2006)

As the mother of a 10 and 6 year old, I long ago decided I prefer the term "intuitive parenting." For me it means putting aside ego, understanding my own unmet needs and not projecting those on my child, and really getting to know what they need most. Sometimes that happens seamlessly, sometimes I make mistakes. Smothering to me means a dependency is created.


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## lalemma (Apr 21, 2009)

"We're doing AP" always makes me think of Maggie Gyllenhaal's character in _Away We Go_.

It seems pretty easy for some AP adherents to become smothery/helicopter parents. People who are terribly concerned about what kind of cracker the child might temporarily be exposed to at someone else's house. Or, their toddler hates their car seat, so they just stay home all the time, because ever letting your child cry is awful. Or dad isn't really allowed to parent his own baby, because he would inevitably get everything wrong.

But I don't know if that's AP Gone Wrong, or just that those people were kinda helicoptery anyway, and AP is just what they seized upon..?

I do think it can be pretty easy for people to get lost in being extremely child-centered. Unfortunately I think (online) communities of AP-minded types can be really supportive of a mom martyring herself for the cause, whether it's a sleeping situation that isn't working for anyone, or a child who's twiddling the other nipple while nursing... you can always find somebody who will tell you this is such a short time in their lives, etc etc. And in turn I think that can lead to some helicopter-style parenting choices, where instead of people parenting in a family-centered way, where everyone's needs and abilities are taken into account, it becomes all about trying to make sure the baby never cries.

So I can actually see how someone who is maybe a little bit nervous about being a relatively new parent to begin with could really latch on to some AP dogma and conclude "I must never let my baby be alone!" instead of thinking "Hey, the plan here is that I let my child explore, and remain a safe home base." or whatever.

I think you've raised an interesting topic. I think about this stuff, too.


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

I don't know....I guess it's possible but I think too often AP is considered smothering anyways. Heck, when some people found out DD was nursing past one year I was accused of smothering her.

AP for me means paying attention to your child's needs and attempting to meet them. I do this for DH, I expect this done for me. It's part of being in a family.

Smothering OTOH for me means oppressing the child for emotional reasons. It's a byproduct of an unhealthy mother. And I say that in a gentle way. Perhaps depression, experiencing a loss, lack of support etc can cause this behavior. I saw this with my FIL who had a sibling death...it can influence all aspects of parenting.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lalemma* 
"We're doing AP" always makes me think of Maggie Gyllenhaal's character in _Away We Go_.

It seems pretty easy for some AP adherents to become smothery/helicopter parents. People who are terribly concerned about what kind of cracker the child might temporarily be exposed to at someone else's house. Or, their toddler hates their car seat, so they just stay home all the time, because ever letting your child cry is awful. Or dad isn't really allowed to parent his own baby, because he would inevitably get everything wrong.

Yeah, I agree with this. I have a family member who is one of the most smothering helicopter parents I've ever seen. She follows her 4 yos around with rice cereal spoon-feeding it to them while they play, won't potty train them in spite of their apparent interest, hates, hates, hates to let them cry at all costs, etc. BUT, she claims to be a big follower of Babywise. She's always talking about how important it is to get them on that schedule, and how they're such a laid-back family, and that crying is good for their lungs. I don't know if she just has that little self-awareness, or she talks the talk because it's more acceptable, or what. Anyway, it's not just AP.


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## spicyrock (Apr 11, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lalemma* 
"We're doing AP" always makes me think of Maggie Gyllenhaal's character in _Away We Go_.

It seems pretty easy for some AP adherents to become smothery/helicopter parents. People who are terribly concerned about what kind of cracker the child might temporarily be exposed to at someone else's house. Or, their toddler hates their car seat, so they just stay home all the time, because ever letting your child cry is awful. Or dad isn't really allowed to parent his own baby, because he would inevitably get everything wrong.

But I don't know if that's AP Gone Wrong, or just that those people were kinda helicoptery anyway, and AP is just what they seized upon..?

I do think it can be pretty easy for people to get lost in being extremely child-centered. Unfortunately I think (online) communities of AP-minded types can be really supportive of a mom martyring herself for the cause, whether it's a sleeping situation that isn't working for anyone, or a child who's twiddling the other nipple while nursing... you can always find somebody who will tell you this is such a short time in their lives, etc etc. And in turn I think that can lead to some helicopter-style parenting choices, where instead of people parenting in a family-centered way, where everyone's needs and abilities are taken into account, it becomes all about trying to make sure the baby never cries.

So I can actually see how someone who is maybe a little bit nervous about being a relatively new parent to begin with could really latch on to some AP dogma and conclude "I must never let my baby be alone!" instead of thinking "Hey, the plan here is that I let my child explore, and remain a safe home base." or whatever.

I think you've raised an interesting topic. I think about this stuff, too.










yes, yes, yes and yes.

For me, AP is a label I was unsure about for a long time. Actually, I guess I am still unsure about it. I remember when my favorite mom-friend and I had just had our babies (just over a year ago, we gave birth 3 weeks apart)- we used to talk about how strange it was that moms divided themselves into clubs and sat on opposite sides of an invisible line, attaching parenting styles to themselves and using those methods to define what type of moms they were. Are we AP? We would ask... and the best we could do was determine that my friend was "more AP" than I am, and I am "more AP" than most people... I guess to me, AP is supposed to be helping babies and children become independent by ensuring that they know you are always there for them to meet the needs they have to the best of your ability. But I don't think I like the term.... It feels like a fashion statement. Those conversations my friend and I had, they remind me of teenagers sitting around and asking each other- are we punk rock? You might be more punk than I am, but I am more punk than those guys over there...

Sorry if that got a little off topic. Yes, I think it is easy for smothery types to latch on to this particular label. But I also know people who don't adhere to AP parenting methods at all, but still claim that label because they like the way it sounds.

It is late and I am pretty sure I am rambling only semi-coherently.


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
I am trying to picture what smotering a 12-month-old looks like, and I'm having trouble. More details would work.

I've seen what I'd call smothering of a 12-month-old. In general, for me it means holding/slinging a baby/toddler who's trying repeatedly to get down from mom. I've also seen moms who offer the breast every time their child makes a whimper, even when the child doesn't seem to be indicating any desire to nurse.


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## lizzylou (Jul 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mata* 
Smothering to me means a dependency is created.

I was going to say the same - smothering is creating a dependency, AP is recognizing that certain dependencies exist at certain times and meeting those needs.

But if it is her first kid, I would definitely cut her some slack. The stuff you described isn't too terrible, and hopefully from her observance of other moms she will learn to strike a balance.

I do think there is an "AP gone wrong" that even the best of us might exhibit from time to time. Unfortunately it's these incidents that the mainstream seems to latch on to as an example of what AP is.


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## lemonapple (Aug 19, 2008)

I guess I think it's pretty impossible for Attachment Parenting to "go wrong" and turn into smothering.

Maybe I have the wrong idea of what AP IS, but hubby and I basically step back from ds and let him "discover' pretty much everything for himself. We cosleep, breastfeed, etc... but I bet those things are not what's meant by "smothering" a 12 month old...nor do they seem like things that could turn into bad things. What I mean is, we are ALWAYS available to ds, but we do not push our presence or preferences on him. If he wants to play in the dirt and chase pigeons...that's cool...if he wants to eat off my plate one day and off his own table another....that's also fine. I don't PUSH him to do anything. Isn't this AP? Where can the 'smothering' come in then?


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bena* 
My feelings exactly.

This post comes from the fact that I've noticed some of these exact behaviors with my friend, and it makes me uncomfortable...(for ex:she spoonfeeds him, claiming he won't eat by himself, but I've seen him play with a spoon and bring it to his mouth; another time, we went to a playgroup and she held on to him though he was wiggling to get to a toy; and last week, at my house, I gave him a stacking tower and she sat on the floor next to him and "showed" him how to use it)


yeah strange she calls this AP because it has nothing to do with being an attached parent, but probably more a control freak.







Does she not want the mess involved with self feeding? Cause it is messy sometimes. Playing with toys the "right" way seems on the other end of the spectrum from meeting your child's needs. A babe needs to figure stuff out, explore.


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## lalemma (Apr 21, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spicyrock* 
they remind me of teenagers sitting around and asking each other- are we punk rock? You might be more punk than I am, but I am more punk than those guys over there...

LOL!

And - yes. That is so totally right on.


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## DaughterOfKali (Jul 15, 2007)

It sounds like the mom is nervous and/or insecure.
Nothing to do with AP, in my opinion.


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## starlein26 (Apr 28, 2004)

A great read on the topic is _Becoming attached: First relationships and how they shape our capacity to love_, by Robert Karen. Another is _Parenting from the inside out_ by Daniel Siegel.


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## folkgirl (Jun 18, 2006)

I fall into the camp of thinking that none of the behaviors you describe are _alarming_, in and of themselves. Can I see why they might raise an eyebrow? Sure. But I can also see how in the context of [some info you may not be aware of] the mom may be doing what her child needs in the moment. I think sometimes it's easy to jump to criticizing other moms, whatever their parenting style, out of concern for the child. I know I'm guilty of that. I also know that DH's family probably has some crazy ideas about me (like I'm uber-restrictive with sugar, for example) when really they just don't live at our house and don't get the big picture of why we do certain things the way that we do them.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *folkgirl* 
I fall into the camp of thinking that none of the behaviors you describe are _alarming_, in and of themselves. Can I see why they might raise an eyebrow? Sure. But I can also see how in the context of [some info you may not be aware of] the mom may be doing what her child needs in the moment.









With my ds, I was so tuned into him and understood him so well, most people were completely clueless that I was responding to him. I'm sure a ton of people thought I did what I did for my own reasons, not as a response to him.

I know my MIL felt she needed to tell me that I could put down the baby while he slept. Yeeeah... I could put down any baby but mine that fell asleep in my arms. I have the knack but ds didn't have the knack of staying asleep without physical contact. No, I didn't leave him with his father. I didn't have dh do equal diaper duty. It wasn't about me being a control freak. It was about meeting ds's needs. I followed around my ds at age 4 and fed him at times. I realized when he was 3 that there was a whole lot more things he would eat if I spoon fed him. No, he wouldn't do it himself even though he could bring a spoon to his mouth.

I know people thought I was an indulgent parent because I didn't try to correct his behavior when I sensed he was tired if he wasn't harming or damaging anything. Most people couldn't even tell he was tired (he's the sort that revs up rather than winds down).

With regards to the stacking toy, a lot of people think it's a good idea to show young children how to do things. Sounds rather Montessori of her.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Hmm. Well the 12-month-old might have made an unholy mess when self-feeding, and maybe she didn't feel like handling the aftermath. I don't think it's smothering to spoon feed a 12-month-old. And "showing him how" could be "playing with him." I don't think it's smothering to play with a 12-month-old. I don't know why she held him at the playgroup. Maybe she saw a kid with green snot dripping out of his nose. Who knows. Anyway, based on those three things, I would not be uncomfortable. The last one is the only one that even seems potentially like smothering to me.


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## Tashakittie (Aug 8, 2007)

The difference between AP and smothering, to me, is that AP creates a sense of well being, love, confidence, a strong bond between parents and child, and essentially independence. Smothering creates the opposite, especially frustration in the child.


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## gcgirl (Apr 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tashakittie* 
The difference between AP and smothering, to me, is that AP creates a sense of well being, love, confidence, a strong bond between parents and child, and essentially independence. Smothering creates the opposite, especially frustration in the child.

Succinctly put. The hard part is determining which parenting behaviors encourage the former and discourage the latter.









Of course I have my own ideas on this.


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## mckittre (Jan 15, 2009)

Those things can easily be misinterpreted.
My similar age baby will play with and mouth a spoon, but that's a whole other step from actually filling it and eating with it. Self-feeding with his hands is incredibly messy. He throws food. I let him do it at home, but I won't always let him do it out at someone else's house.
As for the toy thing, aren't you supposed to play with babies? Sure, I spend a lot of time ignoring him while he plays by himself, but when I sit down and start playing with one of his toys to initiate a game, I thought that was a good thing? Don't babies like being shown things? When I sit down to play with him I show him how banging on a pot will make a cool noise, then he does that for awhile, or I show him how a ball bounces, or how blocks stack.... What's wrong with it? It seems very similar to me to telling him the words for things, which is supposedly good.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chfriend* 
A 12 month old is a baby. A mother responding to a baby or a little kid has no relationship whatsoever to not allowing a high school aged person to grow up.

My older dd didn't even walk at 12 months. Me carrying her in the sling in a hip carry hasn't seemed to impede her progress as a 9 year old.

I agree. But, for the sake of argument, what if your child hadn't _wanted_ to be worn? DD1, for instance, frequently hated it, and wanted down, and wanted me to hurry up about it! I've seen people (not just moms, but mostly) smother even children that young.

OP: I think it's hard to draw lines and say "this behaviour is AP, and that behaviour is smothering". Overall, I think the poster who said AP is about meeting the child's needs, while smothering is about the parent's needs, probably defined it about as well as it can be defined.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spicyrock* 
For me, AP is a label I was unsure about for a long time. Actually, I guess I am still unsure about it.

I'm not a big fan of labels like this, in general. I use "Attachment Parenting" as shorthand. If I happen to be discussing this with someone, "AP" is a quick way to describe where I'm generally coming from. But, honestly - I mostly parented in an AP way with ds1, who was born in 1993, and with dd1, who was born in 2003. I never heard the term "Attachment Parenting" until I came here in March, 2005 - four months before ds2 was born. What matters is what you're doing and why you're doing it, not what you call it.


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## waiting2bemommy (Dec 2, 2007)

I would say smothering, regardless of AP or not, is not allowing your child to develop in healthy, age-appropriate way. that can vary from child to child.

examples are hard to give because kids are ready for different things at different ages. My child will happily and independently "fold" his own laundry and put it away, but he won't go to sleep without me laying next to him. Some people would say I'm rushing him to grow up because he puts away his own laundry, others would say I'm smothering him because I still rock him to sleep many nights. But that seems to be what HE needs at this time. In a few days or weeks that may change. If i was forcing him to lay in my lap and be rocked to sleep when he wanted to lay down, just because I have baby blues or miss nursing or something, that would be smothering. But if he is expressing a NEED for that emotional connection, I don't think it's somthering to provide for it if it's reasonable.

OTOH, I can't STAND people who follow their kids around trying to protect them from every minor bump, scrape and fall. To me that's smothering because it sends a message to the child that they can't handle this without direct, constant intervention from a parent.


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy* 
I would say smothering, regardless of AP or not, is not allowing your child to develop in healthy, age-appropriate way. that can vary from child to child.

examples are hard to give because kids are ready for different things at different ages.

I agree, my DS is very high-needs, a lot of the things I do for/with/involving him may look like smothering to an outsider, but for his age & development I need to do those things.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy* 
OTOH, I can't STAND people who follow their kids around trying to protect them from every minor bump, scrape and fall. To me that's smothering because it sends a message to the child that they can't handle this without direct, constant intervention from a parent.

I think that's conflicting with what you said above! My DS started cruising & walking a bit around 6-7 months. He was not at all developmentally capable of doing this without falling frequently but he insisted on getting around like that. So I hovered over him so he'd be able to continue doing his thing without getting hurt. At 12 months now, he's much stronger & I have no need to hover. But maybe other 7 month olds could cruise without falling (or would be content to crawl), or maybe other 12mo kids still require the hovering.

I'm uncomfortable with this idea of AP vs. smothering. And I'm not really sure how you can really "smother" a baby if you are responding to your baby's individual needs. I'm also not sure what "we do AP" means (from the OP's post)... I think that's too much of getting caught up into a concept, but maybe she's just trying to succinctly explain her parenting style??? And what looks like smothering to you might be just what her baby needs... it's hard to know that unless you spend 24/7 with a baby. Just as an example, my own parents think DS can't really walk & isn't very active or talkative, but that's because he's so shy around them. When he's home, he's all over the place & talks quite a bit!


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## JessBB (Apr 10, 2007)

IMO, AP turns into smothering when the caregiver thinks that they are the only one who can meet the child's needs, all of the time. My goal as a parent is to have a strong attachment with my children, yes, but also to foster strong attachments between them and other people. A little crying in making this happen is ok IMO. I don't think it's natural to never, ever leave a child's side, but YMMV!


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JessBB* 
IMO, AP turns into smothering when the caregiver thinks that they are the only one who can meet the child's needs, all of the time. My goal as a parent is to have a strong attachment with my children, yes, but also to foster strong attachments between them and other people. A little crying in making this happen is ok IMO. I don't think it's natural to never, ever leave a child's side, but YMMV!

What age child are we talking about here? I don't think it's anything BUT natural to keep a young child (under a year or so, depending on the child) by your side 24/7.


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

Must admit I'm surprised to hear that parents are smothering if they "hover" for 12 months and under.

I can't imagine sitting my butt on a park bench and letting DD go play by herself. Seems really anti-AP/detached. Of course, it might have a lot to do with only having a 'big kid' playground, but still, even for example at the mall playground I run around and play with her.

I guess this is one those "float your boat" things of parenting.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy* 
I'm uncomfortable with this idea of AP vs. smothering. And I'm not really sure how you can really "smother" a baby if you are responding to your baby's individual needs.

I don't think anybody suggested that you can smother a baby, _if_ you are responding to your baby's individual needs. But, you can certainly smother a baby if you're not.


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## Polliwog (Oct 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy* 
What age child are we talking about here? I don't think it's anything BUT natural to keep a young child (under a year or so, depending on the child) by your side 24/7.

Even with her FATHER?


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kuba'sMama* 
co-sleeping when desirable by everyone .

I think this is something a lot of people forget "when desirable by everyone" even Dr. Sears says the best way to sleep is the way everyone gets the most sleep.

You can still be AP and gently help your child transition from co-sleeping to solo-sleeping when *you* start to want that too.

And to get back on topic, I think this would be one example of 'smothering' insisting on a family bed or bedroom when a child expresses the desire to be solo.
(I'm not talking about those who have a small child who says they want to be like a sibling or friend by day but then by night it's a different story. There's ways to 'test the waters' without running out and spending money on a bed and everything because the child asked for it but may not like it once they try the reality.)


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

Hmmm I think I would've been seen as "more AP" with my 2nd than I am with my 3rd simply because I wore dd more than ds2. I tried it some with ds2, but he just didn't like it for whatever reason the way dd did. (I wore her past a year I know, but not long past a year because ds2 was born when she was one week away from 22 months)

It would be "smothering" to wear ds2 because he was clearly unhappy with it most of the time. (I think he was too hot.)

I have had to work on the realization that I do not have to be present every second of my children's lives, even the baby's, to be a good mama to them. It is PERFECTLY OK for me to take some time on the weekends when DH is home and take a bubble bath, or screw around on the computer, or read, or watch a TV show alone or whatever. In fact, time to myself helps me be a BETTER mom the rest of the week. (The baby in question loves his daddy and is now 14 months old and loves solids so he's perfectly OK to be with his daddy, play, and have snacks for an hour.) Daddy is *even* perfectly capable of changing diapers, bathing, and putting babe to sleep (if he's done the thing where he's nursed a ton but not gone to sleep)

It would be "smothering" for me to not back off and let them have their own relationship with Daddy.

DS1 is going to kindy next year. He's already reading and writing, but he did attend preschool on an IEP. I have him on the list for a school where I will be required to spend half a day every week in his room. Is this smothering, or helicopter-y? It might be if I didn't have him in a school where ALL the parents do this, so it's normal. It might be if he were in the seventh grade. In Kindergarten, he would probably think it's cool no matter where he was in school. (And at his school, you are not necessarily IN THE ROOM or working WITH YOUR CHILD every minute of the 3-4 hours you're there--you could be in the workroom doing things for the teacher or going around the room helping all the kids or whatever.)

I think it's AP to look at my child and consider his needs and make sure he is in a school that's equipped to meet his needs...so I am going to make sure he is either in this high-parent-involvement school or, if for some reason we are not in there, I want him in one of the class-size-reduced kindergartens. (Some schools in my district have extra funding for this) I just don't think my kid's needs would be met effectively in a classroom with one adult and 25-plus other students.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Polliwog* 
Even with her FATHER?

Dd was like that. She nursed all.the.time as an infant and young toddler and while she spent a lot of time with daddy in a different part of the house, no I didn't leave her under a year and *go* anywhere, b/c she would want to nurse and be hysterical if I didn't appear. That would not have helped her or dh.

-Angela


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Separation anxiety can cause babies (and 12-month-olds are still babies) to prefer mom and not want to be away from her at all. That isn't due to smothering. Separation anxiety is normal and a sign of a healthy attachment. They get past it.


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## Freud (Jan 21, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zinemama* 
Oh, I see the connection.

To me, it's when parents (usually mothers) won't let their children (babies/toddlers) be alone with anyone else, even the father in cases. Where they fall into the trap of feeling that only they can care for and meet every single one of their child's needs. Some have interpreted AP to mean they must wear the baby every moment for fear of not being sufficiently "attached" - whether or not the kid wants to be worn or in fact would rather be exploring and crawling around.

I think smothering - in some cases - is AP misinterpreted.


That's what I was gonna say.


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## Polliwog (Oct 29, 2006)

I don't get the idea that fathers are second-class parents to babies. Yes, they can't nurse but they can soothe babies in other ways. Saying that they shouldn't be left alone with their caring fathers is something I'll never understand.


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Polliwog* 
Even with her FATHER?

Yes. Depends on the baby & how often she eats. My DS, at 1, still nurses very very frequently. I would not feel comfortable leaving him for more than 1-2 hours with his father, although as he increases his solids intake I will have a little more freedom! In reality, I have spent no more than 8-10 hours total away from DS (in 1/2-2 hour increments) and most of that was for work meetings. That doesn't mean I'm not often in another room of the house will DH plays with him!! In fact, they spend all afternoon every day together while I work, and DH does all the baths, diaper changes, etc. But I still nurse him for all feedings and hold him for his naps and am there to hug him when he wants mommy. I guess part of it is that I don't believe in giving bottles/paci... so unless I had a child who BF very infrequently or started eating lots of solids early on, I wouldn't really ever be away from them in the first year or so. And some babies (my DS!) are really attached & have separation anxiety, I don't believe that's a bad thing unless it continues past the first year or two.

ETA:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Polliwog* 
I don't get the idea that fathers are second-class parents to babies. Yes, they can't nurse but they can soothe babies in other ways. Saying that they shouldn't be left alone with their caring fathers is something I'll never understand.

I definitely don't mean to imply fathers are second-class in any way. Like I said above, DH does his half of the parenting & then some!! But the biological fact is that he can't BF...


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Polliwog* 
I don't get the idea that fathers are second-class parents to babies. Yes, they can't nurse but they can soothe babies in other ways. Saying that they shouldn't be left alone with their caring fathers is something I'll never understand.

The only way to soothe a hungry baby is to feed it. Babies get hungry frequently. Some babies won't take bottles. It has nothing to do with being a "second class parent."


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## Youngfrankenstein (Jun 3, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lalemma* 
*you can always find somebody who will tell you this is such a short time in their lives, etc etc.* And in turn I think that can lead to some helicopter-style parenting choices, where instead of people parenting in a family-centered way, where everyone's needs and abilities are taken into account, it becomes all about trying to make sure the baby never cries.


This is brilliant! I know that is why I am here at MDC. I don't want to debate the "regular" stuff: "co-sleeping will kill your baby!" kind of things. When I am here, I know what "kind" of people I'm dealing with. I would hope that while offering another opinion and option, people aren't judging whether it's up to standard.

AP, to me, is sooo not about a set of things to do or not do. It's being that responsive, loving, parent who sees the big picture and helps that child grow into a mature and loving adult by doing those little things each day.

I didn't say that very well, but I see so many kids treated as baggage. I need time and space of my own but not at the expense of my kids.


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## Tumble Bumbles (Oct 15, 2009)

I would be so hurt and offended if a so-called "friend" of mine were using my parenting techniques as a jumping board for discussing smothering.

Just because she is not doing it _your_ way, doesn't mean she is doing it wrong.


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## folkgirl (Jun 18, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bena* 
Note (added Feb.2)
My intention with this post was not to start a debate on my friend's specific actions (which is why I don't go in details), but about smothering in general. I only mention this friend as background to explain how I came about to wondering about this. I'm not implying that she is or is not smothering her child, I'm not in her shoes and cannot be a judge of that.

I guess my answer to that is that it would probably be something different for every parent/child combo, since AP is so entrenched in meeting a child's needs and every child has different needs.


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## Youngfrankenstein (Jun 3, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tumble Bumbles* 
I would be so hurt and offended if a so-called "friend" of mine were using my parenting techniques as a jumping board for discussing smothering.

Just because she is not doing it _your_ way, doesn't mean she is doing it wrong.

I think the OP has stated that seeing her friend got her thinking about the topic, not that she is making judgements about her friend.


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## Birdie B. (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lalemma* 
"We're doing AP" always makes me think of Maggie Gyllenhaal's character in _Away We Go_.

It seems pretty easy for some AP adherents to become smothery/helicopter parents. People who are terribly concerned about what kind of cracker the child might temporarily be exposed to at someone else's house. Or, their toddler hates their car seat, so they just stay home all the time, because ever letting your child cry is awful. Or dad isn't really allowed to parent his own baby, because he would inevitably get everything wrong.

But I don't know if that's AP Gone Wrong, or just that those people were kinda helicoptery anyway, and AP is just what they seized upon..?

I do think it can be pretty easy for people to get lost in being extremely child-centered. Unfortunately I think (online) communities of AP-minded types can be really supportive of a mom martyring herself for the cause, whether it's a sleeping situation that isn't working for anyone, or a child who's twiddling the other nipple while nursing... you can always find somebody who will tell you this is such a short time in their lives, etc etc. And in turn I think that can lead to some helicopter-style parenting choices, where instead of people parenting in a family-centered way, where everyone's needs and abilities are taken into account, it becomes all about trying to make sure the baby never cries.

So I can actually see how someone who is maybe a little bit nervous about being a relatively new parent to begin with could really latch on to some AP dogma and conclude "I must never let my baby be alone!" instead of thinking "Hey, the plan here is that I let my child explore, and remain a safe home base." or whatever.

I think you've raised an interesting topic. I think about this stuff, too.









Just wanted to say that this post is right on.


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## Artichokie (Jun 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Dd was like that. She nursed all.the.time as an infant and young toddler and while she spent a lot of time with daddy in a different part of the house, no I didn't leave her under a year and *go* anywhere, b/c she would want to nurse and be hysterical if I didn't appear. That would not have helped her or dh.

-Angela

Yes, this. I did not leave my child even once before she was a year.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Polliwog* 
I don't get the idea that fathers are second-class parents to babies. Yes, they can't nurse but they can soothe babies in other ways. Saying that they shouldn't be left alone with their caring fathers is something I'll never understand.

DH isn't second class. but he doesn't lactate and is not open to inducing it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
The only way to soothe a hungry baby is to feed it. Babies get hungry frequently. Some babies won't take bottles. It has nothing to do with being a "second class parent."

Indeed. And some families don't use bottles ever.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lalemma* 

{snip}

It seems pretty easy for some AP adherents to become smothery/helicopter parents. People who are terribly concerned about what kind of cracker the child might temporarily be exposed to at someone else's house. Or, their toddler hates their car seat, so they just stay home all the time, because ever letting your child cry is awful. Or dad isn't really allowed to parent his own baby, because he would inevitably get everything wrong.

But I don't know if that's AP Gone Wrong, or just that those people were kinda helicoptery anyway, and AP is just what they seized upon..?

{snip}


actually, this describes our family and i stand behind our decision. I am not needy or insecure or hovering - my dh and i have strong beliefs and we make sacrifices to ensure that we are true to them whenever possible. I am very picky about the food we eat and I absolutely would not permit my dd to eat most crackers. Most processed foods are full of junk. And for the first year of my dd's life I only ran errands alone when it was completely necessary because she screamed hysterically in her car seat rearfacing. I saved almost all our trips out for when my dh could come alone and I or dh sat in the back so my dd could at least see a friendly face and hold our hands. I also nursed her while strapped in when she could not be comforted any other way (dr. sears recommends this, btw). Once she was 1 and turned around, the hysteria stopped and now she does a wonderful job sitting in her seat.


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MoreThanApplesauce* 
actually, this describes our family and i stand behind our decision. I am not needy or insecure or hovering - my dh and i have strong beliefs and we make sacrifices to ensure that we are true to them whenever possible. I am very picky about the food we eat and I absolutely would not permit my dd to eat most crackers. Most processed foods are full of junk. And for the first year of my dd's life I only ran errands alone when it was completely necessary because she screamed hysterically in her car seat rearfacing. I saved almost all our trips out for when my dh could come alone and I or dh sat in the back so my dd could at least see a friendly face and hold our hands. I also nursed her while strapped in when she could not be comforted any other way (dr. sears recommends this, btw).

THANK YOU!!! I was starting to feel like a crazy person because all these "helicopter moms" people were describing sound exactly like me!! But it's not about my needs or insecurity or anything, it's about DS's, and the fact that we have very strong beliefs. I'm glad to know I'm not alone, even if many people think I'm nuts!


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## Bena (Jan 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Youngfrankenstein* 
I think the OP has stated that seeing her friend got her thinking about the topic, not that she is making judgements about her friend.

Thank you, my point EXACTLY!!! This is not about her. She is a sweet person, and a good mother.
I've been thinking alot about this topic, due mostly to unresolved personal issues I've had about my own upbringing, and the fact that I'm facing the very real possibility that my daughter will be an only child, which is completely not what I had imagined for my life. But these are all very private issues that I didn't feel the need to get into!


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

I don't know the situation, but it could be the baby has issues that you aren't aware of.


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