# Mothering Responds to NY Anti-Cosleeping Campaign



## ChipiChipi

Hello Cosleepers-

Many of you have already been talking about New York's anti-cosleeping campaign. Mothering is planning an event in New York between June 17 and June 25.

So let's put our heads together! We would like to hear about any events that are already in the works, about anyone who would like to participate and any other ideas that might help counter the negativity and fact-manipulation that this campaign represents.

Let's get organized and make a difference!


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## kmeyrick

I haven't heard about this campaign. Do you have a link to it? I will fight it, of course. I want to, certainly.

I co-slept with my parents when I was a kid, and I think it is a positive thing.


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## Juvysen

It was in our local newspaper being suppported by our Mothers and Babies Perinatal Network. Our local crunchy group (in Broome county) is writing a letter to the Perinatal Network people. People have also commented on the local newspaper website, and hopefully some people will write in letters to the editor (people have commented on wanting to write personal letters to the Perinatal network, too).

Looking forward to hearing more ideas!


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## Unreal

Here's the website:
http://www.ocfs.state.ny.us/main/bab...epsafestalone/

it is so sad--what an uneducated, ignorant campaign.
It makes me so


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## Ravin

I didn't see any obvious links; does that campaign's website link to any documentation/studies/facts to actually back up their claims (specifically, that a baby is safest sleeping alone)?


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## dubfam

They CAN'T be serious!

OMG stuff like this is so irritating. Obviously you shouldn't sleep next to your babe if you are drunk and stoned...How many of those deaths that they are talking about were a result of irresponsible caregivers?

I think you would have to be pretty intoxicated to roll on top of a baby and smother him/her. Sheesh, I guess it's a MIRACLE that we don't all roll right off the edge of our beds every night.







:


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## My*Scorpio

If this campaign is being funded by the health department, call them! Tell them as a taxpayer, you think the public money would be better spent to on breastfeeding advocacy.


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## elvenpath

Don't sleep next your baby if you are overweight? Wow, I'm overweight and I cosleep and have been for over a year now. No "smothering with my overweightness" yet!!!

How ignorant can you get?


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## PassionateWriter

subbing.


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## captivatedlife

Interesting....


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## MaryTheres

subbing...

I'd love to participate


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## youmb00

who are these people? I'd love to see their
"expert" study on the topic


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## Genesis

subbing...


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## seventy

subbing right along too.


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## Turquesa

(Cross-posted in Family Bed Forum!)

Is anybody here from Ohio? I know that Ohio has had an anti-cosleeping campaign going on for some time, ("On their back. In the crib"), and you may want to research the counter-efforts going on there.

If you can keep your cool (good luck!), you may view an example of NY's propaganda here: 




Here's an Ohio-based piece: http://www.cantonrep.com/index.php?I...ubCategoryID=0

ETA: New Yorkers, I dare you to call that 311 number "for more information" and give _them_ some information! Just as PP suggested, they're _your_ public servants!


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## Night_Nurse

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
OMG stuff like this is so irritating. Obviously you shouldn't sleep next to your babe if you are drunk and stoned...How many of those deaths that they are talking about were a result of irresponsible caregivers?










:


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## MrsAprilMay

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Turquesa* 
(Cross-posted in Family Bed Forum!)

Is anybody here from Ohio? I know that Ohio has had an anti-cosleeping campaign going on for some time, ("On their back. In the crib"), and you may want to research the counter-efforts going on there.
http://mothering.com/discussions/new...ply&p=11263818
MotheringDotCommune Forums - Reply to Topic
If you can keep your cool (good luck!), you may view an example of NY's propaganda here: 




Here's an Ohio-based piece: http://www.cantonrep.com/index.php?I...ubCategoryID=0

ETA: New Yorkers, I dare you to call that 311 number "for more information" and give _them_ some information! Just as PP suggested, they're _your_ public servants!

I'm from Ohio. It's calmed down quite a bit. When it first started, there were billboards, TV commercials and radio ads. When I had my hospital birth in January, we got a neat onsie with the ABC's of safe sleep (Alone, on the Back, in a Crib) along with a refrigerator magnet, and several brochures.

Here's a link to the thread about it.


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## Ruthla

Ugh. How about learning some distinctions between "a little overweight because you just had a baby" and "morbidly obese." It's probably not safe for a 600 lb woman to cosleep with a newborn- but a 200 lb woman is NOT in the same catagory!

So is there anything concrete we can do to help at this point? A petition to sign? Any "I survived sleeping next to my mom" t-shirts I can buy for my older kids?


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## Juvysen

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 
Ugh. How about learning some distinctions between "a little overweight because you just had a baby" and "morbidly obese." It's probably not safe for a 600 lb woman to cosleep with a newborn- but a 200 lb woman is NOT in the same catagory!

So is there anything concrete we can do to help at this point? A petition to sign? Any "I survived sleeping next to my mom" t-shirts I can buy for my older kids?










It's not hard to have such t-shirts made via cafe press.......


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## Treece

i'm in oklahaoma, and i got this propanga from tyhe sicharge nurse. she was telling me how THREE babies have died while sleeping with their parents. I asked her how many died in cribs??? "THREE died with their parents." This continued for oh 5 minutes. Finally, I just said "I respect your opinion, but my cousin died in his CRIB. I want my child next to me." He slept with me in the hospital. But I guess the rest of the world and our ancesters were/are alll WRONG. How in the h!ll did humanity survive???? Oh yeah, they slept with mama.


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## ChipiChipi

From what I'm reading, this is a widespread issue- certainly not something that is so specific to New York. We here at Mothering are continuing to brainstorm and take a closer look at how we can reach the people who need to know more about cosleeping.

Thank you all for your ideas and enthusiasm. I'll keep you informed as the ideas unfold.


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## Turquesa

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MrsAprilMay* 
I'm from Ohio. It's calmed down quite a bit.

Maybe it's in response to all of your letters.









Great campaign and, by all means, keep it up!!


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## MilkTrance

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 
Ugh. How about learning some distinctions between "a little overweight because you just had a baby" and "morbidly obese." It's probably not safe for a 600 lb woman to cosleep with a newborn- but a 200 lb woman is NOT in the same catagory!

So is there anything concrete we can do to help at this point? A petition to sign? Any "I survived sleeping next to my mom" t-shirts I can buy for my older kids?









What Ruthla said (wow, I agree with so much of what you say...)

Also

Maybe have beautiful cosleeping photos put up somewhere, really touching ones.


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## KJoslyn78

So i'm a NYer, just outside Rochester NY, and next to Monroe County.. where the number of deaths from "co-sleeping" (or undertermined, but baby was co-sleeping so they blame that














has risen sharply over the last couple of years. I know Monroe county was one of the areas where they plan to "educate" parents more on making baby sleep in a crib (huge eye roll here).

There has been a couple of new reports on the co-sleeping issue by a local station that the Rochester AP yahoogroup has replied to on the news stations website
links: News story on co-sleeping campaign
Updated: Co-Sleeping Campaign Begins
The Aftermath of the Co-Sleeping Blog Post

I find this "campagin" ignorant, uneducated and unresearched. Diguesting

and for the record - i co-slept with all 3 of my children - 1 who was 6 weeks preemie and came home at 3lbs 8 1/2 ounces. My kitten was bigger then she was, but no place but over daddy's heart is where she would sleep. I never knew what co-sleeping was until i was expecting my son (he'll be 2 in june, my "preemie" is 9 1/2!)... but all of my dc have shared our bed and lived to tell the tale. And i'm no skinny - i was in the 290s when for ydd and ds came home (and 270-280s when odd was home).


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## dannic

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Turquesa* 
(Cross-posted in Family Bed Forum!)

Is anybody here from Ohio? I know that Ohio has had an anti-cosleeping campaign going on for some time, ("On their back. In the crib"), and you may want to research the counter-efforts going on there.

If you can keep your cool (good luck!), you may view an example of NY's propaganda here: 




Here's an Ohio-based piece: http://www.cantonrep.com/index.php?I...ubCategoryID=0

ETA: New Yorkers, I dare you to call that 311 number "for more information" and give _them_ some information! Just as PP suggested, they're _your_ public servants!

That psa is SICK!


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## retro.mama

I'm a NY'er and would love to help educate, but could we add some research links to this thread? I'm looking specifically for numbers of crib deaths and co-sleeping deaths, either by state or nationally. Any suggestions on who would have the data? What about other countries?


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## My*Scorpio

There's no way to distinguish between a vaccine related death and a SIDS death.


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## Genesis

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChipiChipi* 
We here at Mothering are continuing to brainstorm and take a closer look at how we can reach the people who need to know more about cosleeping.

Awesome.









I'm so excited that Mothering is responding to this.


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## bugleg

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genesis* 
Awesome.









I'm so excited that Mothering is responding to this.









Indeed-I wonder what the motivation for the campaign is?


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## littlecityfarmer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bugleg* 
Indeed-I wonder what the motivation for the campaign is?

I think the motivation is the handful of highly publicized "sleep sharing" deaths in NY over the past couple of years, plus some back room lobbying by folks with a vested interest in selling cribs and such (no research on the latter assertion, btw, just a suspicion.)







:







:

I, too, would love to see a data comparison delineating non-shared sleep infant death, planned shared-sleep infant deaths, and casual shared-sleep infant deaths...

-Katie


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## ChipiChipi

After speaking with experts and the folks at API-New York, we have decided that this is ultimately something New Yorkers need to respond to. That being said, Mothering will be working to put together informative downloads and a possible webinar to address cosleeping from an informed and unbiased perspective. Thank you all for your interest, and stay tuned for more updates.


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## a(TM)?Star

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 
Ugh. How about learning some distinctions between "a little overweight because you just had a baby" and "morbidly obese." It's probably not safe for a 600 lb woman to cosleep with a newborn- but a 200 lb woman is NOT in the same catagory!

So is there anything concrete we can do to help at this point? A petition to sign? Any *"I survived sleeping next to my mom"* t-shirts I can buy for my older kids?










Awesome. Sign me up. I hear it every day here on the radio, itmakes me want to hurl.


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## Turquesa

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bugleg* 
Indeed-I wonder what the motivation for the campaign is?

Well, some people believe in a just-say-no "abstinence-only" approach and others support comprehensive education that emphasizes safe co-sleeping.









Seriously, folks, my siggy says it all!


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## gilleoin

subbing. Dh came home and told me about this, I was steaming!


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## moonmama22

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
They CAN'T be serious!

I think you would have to be pretty intoxicated to roll on top of a baby and smother him/her. Sheesh, I guess it's a MIRACLE that we don't all roll right off the edge of our beds every night.







:

Excellent point!


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## Twinklefae

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dannic* 
That psa is SICK!









I agree!

I'm in Canada, and when we discuss co-sleeping with the public health nurse during our prenatal classes we were given this pamphlet, which I thought might be helpful to those trying to let government know there is another answer other than telling people it's hideously dangerous.

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z...osleeping1.jpg
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z...osleeping2.jpg

It's meant to be folded in three. I would be willing to mail this to someone if they needed the real thing. PM me, as I don't usually spend much time in this area.


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## gothmommy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Unreal* 
Here's the website:
http://www.ocfs.state.ny.us/main/bab...epsafestalone/

it is so sad--what an uneducated, ignorant campaign.
It makes me so























I agree--that is stupid!! I am overweight, and used to be super tired (night shift nurse) but guess what? I have co-slept with all of my kids and never rolled onto any of them! Although DS#2 used to have a habit, as a very young infant, of trying to burrow underneath me. When he would do that, I'd wake up IMMEDIATELY. I also have that strange sense for tornado warning sirens--I can hear one from miles away even when in the deepest deep sleep.


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## ChipiChipi

I wanted to pass this info. on to all NY mamas:

"API-NYC is planning a teach-in for the afternoon of Monday, June 9th here in NYC. We are going to get permission to use Union Square Park to put up posters and give handouts on safe sleeping practices. Once we have permission from the Parks Dept. we will be contacting groups here in the city who might be interested in joining us."

Let us know if you hear of any other events.


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## ElsaHaas

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChipiChipi* 
I wanted to pass this info. on to all NY mamas:

"API-NYC is planning a teach-in for the afternoon of Monday, June 9th here in NYC. We are going to get permission to use Union Square Park to put up posters and give handouts on safe sleeping practices. Once we have permission from the Parks Dept. we will be contacting groups here in the city who might be interested in joining us."

Let us know if you hear of any other events.

Is this happening? It's June 9 today and this is the first I've heard about this specific teach-in. Details, please?


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## Individuation

Yes, is this on?


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## christyc

We have a similar campaign going on here in some DHEC districts in South Carolina-- The ABC's of Safe Sleep-- alone, on my back, and in my crib. Grrrr!


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## Annoia

Really just out of curiousity - when caregivers can't afford a crib, do the ABC'ers provide a "safe sleeping environment"? Do they endorse or provide a particular sleep environment as safe (not in a vague sense - like an infant should sleep in a crib - but in a concrete sense - as in "oh, you don't have a crib? to prevent the possible death of your child, let us give you THIS crib")?

Just Pondering,

D.


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## latinalonestar

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Turquesa* 
(Cross-posted in Family Bed Forum!)

Is anybody here from Ohio? I know that Ohio has had an anti-cosleeping campaign going on for some time, ("On their back. In the crib"), and you may want to research the counter-efforts going on there.

If you can keep your cool (good luck!), you may view an example of NY's propaganda here: 




Here's an Ohio-based piece: http://www.cantonrep.com/index.php?I...ubCategoryID=0

ETA: New Yorkers, I dare you to call that 311 number "for more information" and give _them_ some information! Just as PP suggested, they're _your_ public servants!

I live in Ohio and they gave me a stupid "ABCs of Safe Sleep" onsie at the hospital. Alone, on Back, and in a Crib. So annoying...


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## Treece

OMG!! It's infiltrated Oklahoma!!! These pictures are infuriating: "I Sleep Alone" is the campaign. OMG!! Both of my kids have (and one is) slept with me.
This isnt a link to this program but to one by the Tulsa Police.
http://www.tulsapolice.org/childsafe...pingbabys.html

Why are all of these propaganda so BRIEF????


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## ThisLove

It's rampant in KY, too.

At the hospital, the nurses continued to take Calloway out of the bed and put him in that stupid little plastic bassinet thing. Every time, I'd take him out, and they eventually told me that they'd take my baby to the nursery and put him on formula if I didn't stop. (He was sent the NICU on the day I was discharged, but that's neither here nor there.)

At the pediatrician's office, the pediatrician about crapped his pants when I said we coslept. He then told me that he would call CPS for 'endangering Calloway's life' if he heard about it again.

The WIC lady about had a fit when I said we co-slept ... And I ended up with some kind of booklet about how I was definitely, without a doubt, going to smother my child to death in the middle of the night (or my husband would).

Yeah, special.


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## Angi

Personally, I probably won't co-sleep when I have kids because I toss and turn quite a bit. And yes, I'm one of those that fall out of bed on a regular basis. I'll probably do a sidecar arrangement for awhile.

I think this campaign is ridiculous. It sounds very similar to some of the info you find in Babywise. Did anyone else notice that they recommend that you "Keep the room temperature between 65 and 70 degrees."

Are they going to pay my electric bill? It's summer in Texas. The night time lows are in the 80s.


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## midwestmeg

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Angi* 
Personally, I probably won't co-sleep when I have kids because I toss and turn quite a bit. And yes, I'm one of those that fall out of bed on a regular basis. I'll probably do a sidecar arrangement for awhile.

Right- the idea isn't that co-sleepers think everyone should hop into our family bed.... the idea (from my point of view anyway) is that my PERSONAL CHOICES should be respected.














It isn't a black and white issue.

My dd is a great cosleeper, my ds didn't like any movement from me or dh when he was little. A crib next to my bed worked well for him. I have really really great IRL parent friends who do not cosleep but are close to their children and respond to them- but they still would never say 'oh, they just sleep on their back, in their crib, alone.' It takes a little more work than that!

The trouble with big billboards with the whole ABC thing is that they are not very helpful to a new mom with a baby who does not want to go from the womb to their own room. It just isn't very parent friendly to say 'In a crib. On the back. The end.' What would be nice to hear are 'these are the options, you as a parent must determine what works for you...' But I guess that would require the assumption that people can think for themselves.









Hey, maybe that could be a slogan- 'take 'em from the womb to their own room!' I'm calling NY!!







Just kidding.


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## DentedHalo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Treece* 
http://www.tulsapolice.org/childsafe...pingbabys.html

Why are all of these propaganda so BRIEF????

Because it's difficult to write long and poignant statements when you have nothing to say.

A few comments on the statements on Treece's link:

Where are the sources used for this and why are they not referred to in the statement? If a local government agency is making a statement, I want to see what that statement is based on in order to make an informed decision. I have no reason to rely on someone's word alone, no matter how well meaning that person\agency may be. Don't tell me that there is evidence and walk away, show me the evidence.

They list it as a fact that babies do die in co-sleeping arrangement.

Fact: Babies do die in non co-sleeping arrangements.
Fact: Babies do die.

Stating the obvious, much?

14 deaths within 26 months, as sad as they may be, are statistically insignificant for a city with the population of Tulsa. If those deaths are listed as 'unexplained', then why are they attached to a warning about co-sleeping? If they are unexplained, then we don't know what caused them, thus their use in such a warning is entirely arbitrary. I would also like to see the reports on those deaths, and examine them for the appearance of words such as "cocaine", "meth", and "tranquilizers". Actually, considering the rest of the contents of this warning I would like to see the reports on general principles, just to figure out how many of them were conveniently pulled under the blanket of SIDS.

Not a mom at the moment, but I had a conversation with a very close friend of mine this morning about co-sleeping. Just like the pedi of one of the previous posters, her pedi flipped a breaker when she told him they co-sleep and threatened to call CPS. He also informed her that her baby had a much bigger chance of dying from SIDS if he was not in a crib.

When she relayed that to me, my first thought was - "Er...I thought the common name for SIDS was crib death..."








:


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## kblackstone444

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gothmommy* 
I agree--that is stupid!! I am overweight, and used to be super tired (night shift nurse) but guess what? I have co-slept with all of my kids and never rolled onto any of them! Although DS#2 used to have a habit, as a very young infant, of trying to burrow underneath me. When he would do that, I'd wake up IMMEDIATELY. I also have that strange sense for tornado warning sirens--I can hear one from miles away even when in the deepest deep sleep.









When I was cosleeping with my son, even when he was a newborn and I was exhausted, the slightest movement- just him simply turning his head in his sleep or letting out a little cough, would be registered in my brain, while I slept. Even when I was sound asleep, I was fully aware of him at all times. It was my instinct. Of course, i didn't drink or do drugs...









Quote:


Originally Posted by *UmmIlyas* 
Really just out of curiousity - when caregivers can't afford a crib, do the ABC'ers provide a "safe sleeping environment"? Do they endorse or provide a particular sleep environment as safe (not in a vague sense - like an infant should sleep in a crib - but in a concrete sense - as in "oh, you don't have a crib? to prevent the possible death of your child, let us give you THIS crib")?

Just Pondering,

D.

Been there, done that. I couldn't afford a crib when I has my son. He had a bassinett (mine from when I was a baby) and a crib mattress on the floor between our bed and the wall (my mattress was on the floor as well). I only used the bassinett twice (first afternoon nap and then for an hour the first night







) and the crib mattress was pretty much where we played. Anyways, I was warned by the visiting nurse (a fellow AP Mother as well), that if I didn't at least have a crib to pretend he sleeps in, CPS could cause all sorts of problems. Luckily, it never came to that, because nobody was offering to give me a crib for my baby and when you're so poor you sit down to a bowl full of canned peas for dinner, the last thing you're thinking about is going crib shopping.


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