# is it ever ok for toddler to be nude in public?



## Cekimon (Feb 3, 2008)

WDYT? I was at a wedding this weekend that was on a public beach. It would have been unlawful to ask other people at the beach to move out of the way or not walk behind the ceremony. As a result, (and thanks to the good weather) there were a lot of people passing by and onlooking the ceremony. There was even a father (shirtless) playing frisbee at one point very close by with his daughter. (maybe age 10?) Nonetheless... while I was sitting there and looking at the ceremony and setting, I spotted something far down the beach... coming our way.... it looked like a little boy around my son's size walking with two ladies.... totally naked! I couldn't tell for sure at first... but sure enough... he was 100% nude. while they were gawking at the ceremony like people rubber necking in traffic looking at an accident, they just walked slower and slower right in front of our view behind the bride and groom exchanging vows.

WDYT? Not a big deal or NO WAY... there are perverts out there and everyone on the planet has a cel phone with a camera!!


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

The perverts will still be perverts if the boy had had clothes on. It's up to the parents and the toddler to decide if he wears clothes and no one else. I say no big deal.


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## Learning_Mum (Jan 5, 2007)

I don't feel comfortable having my boys out in public and nude, however if it was another child I wouldn't have a problem with it. I'd say 2yo and under I'd be comfortable with.


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## Maluhia (Jun 24, 2007)

I still let my 4 year old girl do it on public beaches in Hawaii if she wants to.

The only time someone has tried to photograph my child is when she was in a bathing suit - it turned out to be tourist creepy guys and I called the cops when they would not stop photographing her.

So yeah, on small beaches we go to often if she wants to take off her bathing suit - rock on girl! I'm not going to teach her to be ashamed of her body.


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## transylvania_mom (Oct 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
The perverts will still be perverts if the boy had had clothes on. It's up to the parents and the toddler to decide if he wears clothes and no one else. I say no big deal.

I agree. My boy was almost always nude on the beach until he turned 2. But I'm from Europe, so my perspective might be a little different.
Also, I find it unfortunate that nude babies and shirtless guys were in the background of the bride and groom changing vows, but you said it was a public beach... so you can't really blame them.


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## puddleduck (Jan 3, 2005)

If there is water than my boys will be naked, they are nearly 5 and 2.


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## treemom2 (Oct 1, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
The perverts will still be perverts if the boy had had clothes on. It's up to the parents and the toddler to decide if he wears clothes and no one else. I say no big deal.

I totally agree! I also believe that perverts are very rare, most people are good and honest, and I'm not going to live in fear of people who might be perverts. . .I don't think there are enough of them to even think about. When we go to the beach (last minute) and don't have extra clothes our children strip and get in the water. . .*gasp* totally nude! Only in the last year has DD kept her panties on (but nothing else) when we go. Of course we live in Japan where nudity isn't too big of a deal (at my DS's school the children strip down to their undies to play in the sprinklers in the summer then all strip naked in front of each other and get dressed; at my DD's school, in the 2nd grade, the children all change into their swimsuits for swimming in the same room--boys and girls).


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## AllisonR (May 5, 2006)

If the couple chose to get married on a public beach (sounds beautiful), then they have to accept people playing frisbee or being naked.... the "nakee" one could have been my DS or DD!


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## tootaloo78 (Nov 21, 2007)

I wouldn't be comfortable with my own kids being naked in public at pretty much any age, but that's because I am incredibly paranoid about predators and perverts. However, if another parent is comfortable with it it doesn't bother me, I will just be looking around to make sure I don't notice anyone leering or taking photos without permission.


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## BunniMummi (Jan 28, 2005)

It would be pretty common here (Norway). Even splashing around in fountains downtown. ^^


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## snapper mamma (May 22, 2005)

No big deal! I have mostly insisited on bathing suits and sun shirts for protection from the sun but if DS wants to run aorund naked for a bit, no big deal. We always strip him down all the way to shower off the sand at the outdoor shower by the beach. DD stopped being naked in public around 4 IIRC, just a personal preference thing, it wouldn't phase me if I saw another child her age naked.


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## Megan73 (May 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Learning_Mum* 
I'd say 2yo and under I'd be comfortable with.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *transylvania_mom* 
I agree. My boy was almost always nude on the beach until he turned 2. But I'm from Europe, so my perspective might be a little different.

Why age 2? Why is it OK before then but somehow not OK after that second birthday?


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## transylvania_mom (Oct 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Megan73* 
Why age 2? Why is it OK before then but somehow not OK after that second birthday?

For us, by next summer, ds had already turned 3. And when in Rome... If someone had made a rude comment on ds's nakedness at 2, he couldn't have cared less (I got some nasty looks, but no comments), but at 3, I started worrying about his self-esteem.


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## jeminijad (Mar 27, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treemom2* 
I totally agree! I also believe that perverts are very rare, most people are good and honest, and I'm not going to live in fear of people who might be perverts. . .I don't think there are enough of them to even think about.

I respectfully disagree that they are "very rare." Every time I hear the stats on the frequency of little girls being sexually abused, I'm blown away by how often it happens.

My DD (and future children) will not be nude in 'public.' We'll teach them not to be ashamed of their bodies, but to recognize that not everyone has the right to see their private areas... JMO based on my own negative experiences as a child.


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## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

I personally always kept ds in a bathing suit simply because I realize we are in America, people have hang ups about nudity (even in very small children) and I don't want to make people uncomfortable. But at home, heck, he's still a nudist.









It certainly wouldn't bother me to see a naked toddler. I think if we were in many countries other than the US people wouldn't think twice about it either.


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## benj (Jun 4, 2009)

if there were not any perverts, i would be ok with it. but that combined with the attitude that people have with being nude makes me uncomfortable.

...he prances around nude in the house though.


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## Mama Mko (Jul 26, 2007)

I don't have a problem with kids being naked. Even if there is a pervert out there, I don't think their ability to see my naked kid is going to cause any harm. I'm right there, nothing can happen.

That said, if I was walking with my naked toddler on the beach and I saw a wedding, I'd probably whisk him away and clothe him just to be polite to the wedding couple.


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## Spirit Dancer (Dec 11, 2006)

Just because of other people's extreme reactions to my child being nude I would not let them run around completely naked on a public beach. But inside they are both (3 &1 yr olds) naked a lot and will stand naked at the window ect. I do EC with my 1 yr old so I pee her outside all the time and when I do so you can see her tush. Naked toddlers no big deal to me. But sadly the North American society does not seem to agree.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

No big deal.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

I wouldn't be comfortable with my own kids being out in public naked, but other families may feel differently.


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## Mama.Pajama (Jul 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
The perverts will still be perverts if the boy had had clothes on. It's up to the parents and the toddler to decide if he wears clothes and no one else. I say no big deal.

Me too. This is the United States of Shame- as PPs have alluded. This puritanical American culture is the problem, not nudity. There are perverts all over the world, but for reason of shame only a few countries in it have a collective fear of nudity in public. I am not advocating secession from every cultural consensus. But personally, I will rebel against this particular stigma (and many others, but that's me) , for the common good and self-respect of the world as a whole and my family as individuals.


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## vegemamato (Jul 4, 2007)

we try to avoid NIP (nekkid in public) mostly because of the sun









and an excess of sand in the butt


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## RunnerDuck (Sep 12, 2003)

I would be ok with brief nudity - like changing clothes, swimming when you forgot a bathing suit - but it seems like they were going for a walk of some length with him naked? That just seems extra weird to me.

I remember when I was a kid ... must have been 4 or 5 ... we were at a state park here with a lake and a beach and we were playing in the sand and this little girl came and played in the sand completely naked. We thought it was weird... first of all because our parents didn't let us run around naked (I got spanked once for riding down the street naked on my big wheel) ... but then she stood up and she was all filled up with sand everywhere... I don't think I'd do naked at the beach just for personal physical comfort... who wants sand in their butt? Of course I know some sand will get in anyway but...

eta - vegemato and I posted at exactly the same time, LOL


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## Lollybrat (Sep 18, 2008)

Personally, I'm not comfortable with my child being naked in public, but I have no problem with other people's toddlers or young preschoolers who are.

But I wanted to comment on something else in the original post. You seem to be very annoyed that members of the general public watched the wedding. You commented that they were "gawking at the ceremony like people rubber necking in traffic looking at an accident".

This is part of having a ceremony in a public place. My husband and I got married at a public beach (at the base of a lighthouse). We had a very small ceremony with only our immediate families there. Including us, our priest, and our photograoher, there were about 20 people there. And LOTS of tourists who stopped to watch the ceremony. Everyone was very polite and stood a respectful distance away; but they were definately close enough to be in earshot and to take pictures. We did not think about this beforehand and we did not expect it to happen, but we considered it to be a delightful surprise. We love that you can see all the tourists in the pictures in our wedding album. And we still laugh that complete strangers have pictures of our wedding in their vacation albums.


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## Just Elsa (May 18, 2009)

Given the world we live in I think it's a bad idea, but not because there's anything inherently wrong with being naked.

I agree with the PP that getting married in a public spot is an invitation to others to respectfully watch the ceremony. I think having extra people around to witness is charming.


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## ckmannel (Oct 16, 2008)

Another vote for no big deal. Perverts are horrible, but if you are supervising your child carefully, your DS or DD should not come to harm. To me there is a certain beauty to a child's lack of shame at their nudity. I wouldn't rob my kid of that just because there might be a pervert lurking somewhere. Though I agree it was kinda tacky to let him linger right behind the bride and groom.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeminijad* 
I respectfully disagree that they are "very rare." Every time I hear the stats on the frequency of little girls being sexually abused, I'm blown away by how often it happens.

Its usually not strangers at a beach who do the molesting though, or strangers anywhere. Its people the child knows. So I would be more worried about uncle jimmy giving her a bath than for her to be naked at a public beach, especially a toddler.

Jemi - have you read the Gift of Fear, by GAvin Debecker? It might help you sort through what need to be worried about and what doesn't.


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## primjillie (May 4, 2004)

What bothers me on these threads is the fact that most posters think because someone doesn't approve of nudity in public, means they are afraid of perverts or they are teaching their children to be ashamed of their bodies. What happened to modesty? I have never been inclined to be naked in public or let my children run around without clothes on when there are others around. What we do in our house is different, because of the privacy factor. I also think a bathing suit does protect them from sun, sand, rocks, bugs that might irritate their privates, the same way I might put a sun hat on a fair child. I also agree that private parts are private, not to be displayed in public, despite the age. However, if I did see a very young child frolicking naked, I would probably smile because they are so darn cute!


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RunnerDuck* 
(I got spanked once for riding down the street naked on my big wheel)


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## _betsy_ (Jun 29, 2004)

DD loves to run around naked at home after a bath, but she wants clothes on in public, and that's fine by me.

I wouldn't have a problem with naked toddler on a beach, but I think it was pretty disrespectful of the adults to hang around gawking at the ceremony, naked toddler or not. I'd certainly be mindful of kleeping out of the viewfinder of any cameras at the wedding (professional or otherwise) if I weren't an invited guest. Maybe that's just my perspective, though.


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## Kristin0105 (Mar 1, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ckmannel* 
Another vote for no big deal. Perverts are horrible, but if you are supervising your child carefully, your DS or DD should not come to harm. To me there is a certain beauty to a child's lack of shame at their nudity.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
Its usually not strangers at a beach who do the molesting though, or strangers anywhere. Its people the child knows. So I would be more worried about uncle jimmy giving her a bath than for her to be naked at a public beach, especially a toddler.

ITA. They were at the beach after all and I think the beach is an acceptable place to be naked. I used to work with sex offenders and have worked with an overwhelming number of victims. So I think I have a unique insight into this. While I do worry about my dd's safety (we take appropriate precautions) and I am creeped out by the thought of some sex offender taking pictures of my lo and then "using" those pictures later. Just because she has clothes on isn't going to stop that from happening. People ask to take pictures of her all the time some people have good intentions some may not but I really have no control over who takes a picture and who does not. I have seen people take pictures of her and they did not ask. But since she is usually bundled in a snowsuit and flying by on skis I'm not too concerned









Yes, I would and have let dd run around naked at a beach. But she is never out of arms reach for safety reasons. I don't want to negatively influence her sense of self and comfort with her body. The time will come when she will decide on her own that she wishes to be covered up all the time. Until that time I want her to learn that the her body is not something to be ashamed of.


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## Joyster (Oct 26, 2007)

No, I can just hear my 3 year old complaining endlessly about sand in his bum. Seriously! The younger one is vampire white, so he is covered up at the beach, there is no way he'd be naked outside, ever. Other than the quick change, I'd say pretty much no for my guys. I just think it's more trouble than not for us.

I don't have problems with it for other people though.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *puddleduck* 
If there is water than my boys will be naked, they are nearly 5 and 2.

That's the way my little kids were as well. I probably would not have let them strip down at a wedding, though.


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## Amylcd (Jun 16, 2005)

I wouldn't let my kids go naked in public, but I do not care what other parents do.


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## Just Elsa (May 18, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *philomom* 
That's the way my little kids were as well. I probably would not have let them strip down at a wedding, though.

To be fair, it sounds like this kid was not *at* a wedding. The kid was at a public beach where someone happened to have decided to get married that day. There's a different level of reasonable expectation.


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## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

I just wanted to chime in and say those are going to be some really great wedding pictures!


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## Norasmomma (Feb 26, 2008)

I usually don't let DD get all nakey-butt at a public beach, but a few weeks ago she was with my parents and got her clothes wet in the lake, they also didn't realize that she had a swimsuit in her stuff







. Whatever.

I agree the perverts will be perverts clothes on or not.

We went to a wedding this weekend and yesterday(the day after) we went to go help clean up and DD got naked and went wading, but it is a private beach on the lake. We let her be naked in our back yard, not the front the road is too close.


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## Flower of Bliss (Jun 13, 2006)

The bride and groom chose to get married on a public beach. It sounds lovely, but certainly they didn't expect a private ceremony in a public place. I find nothing at all offensive about a shirtless man playing frisbee with his DD, people on the beach watching the ceremony, or a naked toddler on a walk at a public beach.

I personally rarely allow my nearly 3 year old DD to be naked outside. Our back yard has a swing set on a large mulch pit, which just sounds miserable with a bare bottom. We live in a very conservative area, and so I don't tend to have her running around naked in the public eye.

However, I wouldn't hesitate to have her naked in a kiddie pool, running in sprinklers, etc at a home - even in a front yard. I've also been known to take off her shirt and have her running around topless or even pantless playing in water in public or really just at the park if it's hot and I messed up and dressed her for cooler weather. I tend to keep her diaper on as she has no poop routine and I sure wouldn't want to deal with that









I change her diaper in public view all the time.


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## Kappa (Oct 15, 2007)

Naked babies are just fine IMHO. With respect to the wedding, the couple made their choice about where to have it and have to live with that choice. I don't let my child run around naked though, he's not much of a nudist, but I know some nudist children and I don't really see the problem with it.


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## lerlerler (Mar 31, 2004)

Gee whiz..
My kids wear rash guards and bike short swim bottoms.

Modesty? Nope
But I always wondered how much sunscreen a naked child must have on!


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## camracrazy (May 27, 2006)

I think it was really inconsiderate of them to walk and linger behind the bride and groom while the cermony was going on. Just because they think their naked toddler is the cutest thing in the world doesn't mean that an unknown couple want wedding pics with a naked toddler in the background. Even if it was a public beach there are things like respect that come into play. If we had been at the beach I would have never taken my kids where they would possibly be disturbing something like a wedding, unless the wedding was blocking the only path back to the parking area or something.


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## katiesk (Nov 6, 2007)

i don't care at all.

the perverts that children are most likely to encounter will be close friends/family/acquaintences...not random strangers at the beach. so that aspect does not compel me to keep dd covered up.

however, some people are probably annoyed by public nudity...but oh well.


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## katiesk (Nov 6, 2007)

Quote:

I think it was really inconsiderate of them to walk and linger behind the bride and groom while the cermony was going on. Just because they think their naked toddler is the cutest thing in the world doesn't mean that an unknown couple want wedding pics with a naked toddler in the background. Even if it was a public beach there are things like respect that come into play. If we had been at the beach I would have never taken my kids where they would possibly be disturbing something like a wedding, unless the wedding was blocking the only path back to the parking area or something.
yep. i think thats the issue - regardless of the kid being clothed or not!


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

you must be kidding? They were at a beach...totally ok.

In the supermarket, at a cafe, walking down the street, alright, mykids would be dressed.
But, if its warm enough to be naked, if the place is somewhere where there is water/swimming, or if theres lots of green grass, near nature, such as a park, then..... its ok. In a playground, ok. At a beach, very ok.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

These are some of my favorite pictures of dd at age 2:
Picture 1
Picture 2
Picture 3

So, my answer is: Let 'em be naked. Yes, we used a boatload of sunscreen on her. And eventually I persuaded her to put on some clothes because I was worried about sunburn. But sunburn is my only worry. While sand in the butt is a problem, sand in diapers is even worse!!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeminijad* 
I respectfully disagree that they are "very rare." Every time I hear the stats on the frequency of little girls being sexually abused, I'm blown away by how often it happens.

I respectfully disagree. First, most molestation occurs by people who are KNOWN to the victim. Second, especially for toddlers, no stranger is going to get close enough to my toddler to molest them. I watched my toddlers all the time. Kids who are more likely to be molested are those who have gained an age where they're not under constant supervision (so the 8-12 range).


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## tbone_kneegrabber (Oct 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *camracrazy* 
I think it was really inconsiderate of them to walk and linger behind the bride and groom while the cermony was going on. Just because they think their naked toddler is the cutest thing in the world doesn't mean that an unknown couple want wedding pics with a naked toddler in the background. Even if it was a public beach there are things like respect that come into play. If we had been at the beach I would have never taken my kids where they would possibly be disturbing something like a wedding, unless the wedding was blocking the only path back to the parking area or something.

I can't believe those people were SO RUDE as to have their *wedding* in my way! I was just trying to enjoy the beach, without being reminded of the inequities of the heterosexist culture we live and damn if folks didn't have to throw it in my face! And then complain about the way *I* was spending my day at the beach!

(just to give some perspective on *public* places!)


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

yeah, what she said....

<<I can't believe those people were SO RUDE as to have their *wedding* in my way! I was just trying to enjoy the beach, without being reminded of the inequities of the heterosexist culture we live and damn if folks didn't have to throw it in my face! And then complain about the way *I* was spending my day at the beach!

(just to give some perspective on *public* places!>>


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeminijad* 
I respectfully disagree that they are "very rare." Every time I hear the stats on the frequency of little girls being sexually abused, I'm blown away by how often it happens.

But what are the stats on how being unclothed on a beach as a toddler contributes to abuse? I don't see any connection between the two...

Clothes don't prevent abuse. Clothes, or the lack of them, don't cause abuse.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

I don't really care about the naked-child issue -- that's no biggie to me at all.

About the public wedding issue, though, yes, the couple did open themselves up to the possibility that strangers would watch their ceremony, and the other beach-goers have every right to be on the beach, in whatever state of dress they're in. And _technically_, I agree that they don't really have room to complain about whatever the other beach-goers do near their wedding ceremony. Hopefully, being the kind of people who chose a public beach wedding, they're also the kind of people who wouldn't get worked up about having strangers, clothed or unclothed, in their wedding pictures.

All that said, I really would think that most people would make a slight concession to the bridal couple by staying a respectful distance away. I make concessions for other people in public places all the time, as they do for me. It's nice.


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## kirstenb (Oct 4, 2007)

Naked toddlers don't bother me, especially at the beach. DS would fry in the sun without some clothes on so he is usually wearing swin trunks, but if he wanted to get naked for a short amount of time I wouldn't care.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 

All that said, I really would think that most people would make a slight concession to the bridal couple by staying a respectful distance away. I make concessions for other people in public places all the time, as they do for me. It's nice.









Agreed. This is why even when someone dares to try and herd people in their family for a group shot, I will actually change my path so that I don't walk in front of their camera (or offer to take the picture) and keep my kids from getting in the way until they're done even if WE want to look over the cliff/at the sea/ride the statue/whatever.


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## angie7 (Apr 23, 2007)

Frankly, I think it is completely irresponsible on the parents part. First off, no child should ever be naked in public and secondly, wth where they thinking? Perverts might be perverts with clothes on too but come on, that's just asking for it. Poor little boy.

I don't even let my girls diapers show if they are wearing a dress. I put little shorts on underneath b/c I don't want someone getting their "rocks off" at my dds'







:


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## junie (Jan 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *primjillie* 
What bothers me on these threads is the fact that most posters think because someone doesn't approve of nudity in public, means they are afraid of perverts or they are teaching their children to be ashamed of their bodies. What happened to modesty? I have never been inclined to be naked in public or let my children run around without clothes on when there are others around. What we do in our house is different, because of the privacy factor. I also think a bathing suit does protect them from sun, sand, rocks, bugs that might irritate their privates, the same way I might put a sun hat on a fair child. I also agree that private parts are private, not to be displayed in public, despite the age. However, if I did see a very young child frolicking naked, I would probably smile because they are so darn cute!


I'm not sure that that is what people are saying. At least I didn't see that. Some people have said they wouldn't allow their child to be naked for fear of perverts, but I didn't see anywhere where someone assumed that anyone who is not okay with it MUST be afraid of perverts. I could be wrong though.

Personally, I'm fine with it. My only concern, as pp have said, is the sun. I'm super paranoid about sunburns, so I don't think I'd be comfortable with my own kids being naked for too long, even with a ton of sunscreen (since even the best sunscreens don't always protect). I usually make my kids where bathing suits AND shirts AND hats AND sunscreen (even under the shirts), and then limit time in the sun on top of that. Like I said, paranoid.

I'm not concerned about perverts. As others have said, perverts will be perverts REGARDLESS of whether your children are clothed (and will take pictures regardless too) and most molesters are known to the child already anyway.

I do, however, believe in respecting, to a certain extent, the comfort of others around me. I'm not saying I change every little thing just to please others. It's a balance. If most people on the beach were obviously bothered by nudity, I probably would cloth my children, but if only a few were bothered, I'd say majority rules, and I'd let them go naked (well, depending on the sun etc.







).

As for not respecting the wedding couple's space, I agree the adults with the toddler should have kept him out of the photos, but I also think having a wedding in a public place invites people to watch the ceremony, and the couple should accept this. Heck, a stranger showed up at my sister's wedding, and that was in a church!! Apparently it's not uncommon for people to go to weddings of strangers because they enjoy watching people get married. I'd never heard of that until this woman showed up at my sister's ceremony.


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## junie (Jan 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angie7* 
I don't even let my girls diapers show if they are wearing a dress. I put little shorts on underneath b/c I don't want someone getting their "rocks off" at my dds'







:

The thing is, though, if someone is going to do this, they'll do it regardless of whether your dds are clothed. Your dds could be in full snowsuits, and this could still happen. It's the image of the child, and not necessarily the nakedness of the child that matters. It's sad, sick and disgusting, but true none-the-less.

That's not to say you shouldn't cloth your children if you're uncomfortable with it. There's nothing wrong with that. We all have different levels of modesty, and you should definitely go with what you are comfortable with, but no level of modesty will keep a pervert from their disgusting thoughts.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angie7* 
Frankly, I think it is completely irresponsible on the parents part. First off, no child should ever be naked in public and secondly, wth where they thinking? Perverts might be perverts with clothes on too but come on, that's just asking for it. Poor little boy.

I don't even let my girls diapers show if they are wearing a dress. I put little shorts on underneath b/c I don't want someone getting their "rocks off" at my dds'







:

Just asking for what? The parents were right there with the child, so there was no danger of molestation.

If a pervert is thinking dirty things, it does not affect the "poor little boy" in any way. There is no way to know what people are thinking and person's thoughts can't harm another person.


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## PoppyMama (Jul 1, 2004)

For water play, etc. SURE! I'm not afraid of perverts making off with my naked toddler at the beach or pool. In that environment the kid is barely going to get out of my reach because of water safety so totally not worried about pedophiles.


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## angie7 (Apr 23, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
Just asking for what? The parents were right there with the child, so there was no danger of molestation.

If a pervert is thinking dirty things, it does not affect the "poor little boy" in any way. There is no way to know what people are thinking and person's thoughts can't harm another person.

I don't care if the parents were right there, the thoughts of a pervert are enough for me to keep my child covered. They might still think nasty thoughts about my children but I know that I did everything in my power to cover my child up.

Quote:

For water play, etc. SURE! I'm not afraid of perverts making off with my naked toddler at the beach or pool. In that environment the kid is barely going to get out of my reach because of water safety so totally not worried about pedophiles.
It isn't about the act of molestation but the thoughts of doing it to your child. How you would feel if a man was staring at your child intently with a "tent" in his shorts as your child played by the pool. Would you let him b/c he wasn't activily molesting your child? It's just a thought, right?


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## Amylcd (Jun 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angie7* 
I don't care if the parents were right there, the thoughts of a pervert are enough for me to keep my child covered. They might still think nasty thoughts about my children but I know that I did everything in my power to cover my child up.

_It isn't about the act of molestation but the thoughts of doing it to your child. How you would feel if a man was staring at your child intently with a "tent" in his shorts as your child played by the pool. Would you let him b/c he wasn't activily molesting your child? It's just a thought, right?_

A child molester will have the same thoughts regardless of how covered up the child is.


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## Litcrit (Feb 23, 2009)

I'm European. Where we go to the beach, all kids are naked until they ask for a bathing suit - around 2-4 years of age.

Modesty to me means not flaunting sexually enticing body parts to those likely to get unduly axcited and unable to control it. Small children are _highly unlikely_ to attract anyone's sexual attention.


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## Mama Mko (Jul 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angie7* 
It isn't about the act of molestation but the thoughts of doing it to your child. How you would feel if a man was staring at your child intently with a "tent" in his shorts as your child played by the pool. Would you let him b/c he wasn't activily molesting your child? It's just a thought, right?


You can't "let him" or "not let him". You have no control over that man. I don't think it hurts my child either way since they have no idea what that man is thinking.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angie7* 
I don't care if the parents were right there, the thoughts of a pervert are enough for me to keep my child covered. They might still think nasty thoughts about my children but I know that I did everything in my power to cover my child up.

It isn't about the act of molestation but the thoughts of doing it to your child. How you would feel if a man was staring at your child intently with a "tent" in his shorts as your child played by the pool. Would you let him b/c he wasn't activily molesting your child? It's just a thought, right?

I would "let" him - because I can't stop him from thinking. I really really don't care about what other people are thinking, even when they are looking at my child. I don't care if they are thinking "what a brat", I don't care if they are thinking "that kid needs a haircut", I don't care if they are thinking dirty thoughts, I just don't care. It has no effect on me and no effect on my children.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angie7* 
Frankly, I think it is completely irresponsible on the parents part. First off, no child should ever be naked in public and secondly, wth where they thinking? Perverts might be perverts with clothes on too but come on, that's just asking for it. Poor little boy.

I don't even let my girls diapers show if they are wearing a dress. I put little shorts on underneath b/c I don't want someone getting their "rocks off" at my dds'







:

I'm sorry, but who are you to judge what other parents let their child do and decide that the little boy needs to be felt sorry for? They weren't walking down the beach forcing other parents to take their children's clothes off. They were just at the beach and they child decided to be naked.

Quote:

It isn't about the act of molestation but the thoughts of doing it to your child. How you would feel if a man was staring at your child intently with a "tent" in his shorts as your child played by the pool. Would you let him b/c he wasn't activily molesting your child? It's just a thought, right?
You can't control whether the man is there or not. Unless it's your own property, you have no right to ask him to leave just because he creeps you out. And he would be having the same thoughts no matter what your child wears so the only way to protect your child from being a "turn on" for him is by never leaving your house.


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## treemom2 (Oct 1, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeminijad* 
I respectfully disagree that they are "very rare." Every time I hear the stats on the frequency of little girls being sexually abused, I'm blown away by how often it happens.

Most sexual abuse happens with someone the child or the family knows. I'm still not worried about going naked at the beach. Also, it does seem that societies who are less modest don't have as many problems with sexual abuse, child pornography. . .something to think about.


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## KnitLady (Jul 6, 2006)

I don't think it's a big deal. It's also likely they didn't realize they were in the pictures. Sounds like they were having a fun day at the beach and slowed down to watch something interesting.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

I am really conflicted on this, because I am not a naked in public kind of gal. But I'm also not what one would consider prudish, at least I don't think I am. I just feel like private parts are private, no matter what the age...so at home in our house? Sure, why not - but even then it's mostly situational nudity, like before/after bathtime, or changing clothes, or whatever...but even at home, I just don't get like, playing nude. My kids play hard and fast, and I can envision lots of situations where private parts would get in the way of that (or things could get in the way of private parts), where things would get irritated, or stuck places, or chafed... I don't *think* I"m a prude, but maybe I am. I guess I just don't get the need to be nekkid much. When I see kids naked out in public, the thought that comes into my mind is, "really? why?" I don't think the parents are bad, or get worried about "perverts", it just seems....impractical? potentially dangerous? uncomfortable? I can't quite pinpoint it. Especially at the beach - all that sun, the sand...oof...I have serious sand issues anyway, the thought of them getting in all those folds, etc. [shudder]









Maybe I need to investigate my inner thoughts more...I don't get a shame vibe when I see naked kids in public, just more of a "why?" vibe.

Re: the wedding couple - when you have your wedding in a public place, you get what you get. I would walk around it to be sure I wasn't in the pictures, even fully clothed, cause honestly I don't want to be (and I don't want my kdis to be) in someone's wedding pictures. I do the same when people are taking pics at other public venues, I give htem space to do it.


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## AbbieB (Mar 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angie7* 
Frankly, I think it is completely irresponsible on the parents part. First off, no child should ever be naked in public and secondly, wth where they thinking? Perverts might be perverts with clothes on too but come on, that's just asking for it. Poor little boy.

I don't even let my girls diapers show if they are wearing a dress. I put little shorts on underneath b/c I don't want someone getting their "rocks off" at my dds'







:


Quote:


Originally Posted by *angie7* 
I don't care if the parents were right there, the thoughts of a pervert are enough for me to keep my child covered. They might still think nasty thoughts about my children but I know that I did everything in my power to cover my child up.

It isn't about the act of molestation but the thoughts of doing it to your child. How you would feel if a man was staring at your child intently with a "tent" in his shorts as your child played by the pool. Would you let him b/c he wasn't activily molesting your child? It's just a thought, right?


I do not mean to single you out angie7. I believe you are doing what you feel is best for your child. That is completely your right.

Having said that...

This attitude really freaks me out. All I am thinking when reading this is how this kind of thinking is why women are mandated to wear burkas in other cultures. It's all to protect them from other's unclean thoughts.


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## transylvania_mom (Oct 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angie7* 
First off, no child should ever be naked in public

so is this is a new law or something?


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## rebirth (Oct 17, 2008)

I was married on the beach and people were amazingly respectful- trying to keep quiet, be away from us, and to stay out of photos. People actually turned back rather then walk in front of us when we were doing photos and for our vows. I'm suprised that couple didn't get the same treatment. I also live in an area where a beach wedding is super common- so it was no suprise that people were so polite, although it was no less appreciated.

As for the nudity issue- for me it would be a modesty issue- not an issue of place or age. I wouldn't want my child to be exposed like that, I don't think it teaches the type of personal respect I want my kiddos to have.


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## Learning_Mum (Jan 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Megan73* 
Why age 2? Why is it OK before then but somehow not OK after that second birthday?

For me personally it's because at 2yo they're still babies, once they get to be 3yo they're more little people and can understand more about what is and isn't acceptable in our culture. We've started talking to DS1 about how some things are OK at home when we're by ourselves but that they're not when we're out or have company. It's completely OK to be naked when we're at home, just like it's OK to talk about penises etc when we're at home, but that they make other people uncomfortable so we don't talk about it when there's other people around.

Whether it's right or wrong there are things that people in our culture don't find acceptable and I don't want my son being embarrassed, or shamed or picked on because he does something that is culturally unacceptable. It would be the same where ever we lived. Some countries it's a compliment to burp after a meal and in others it's not. If we go into a marae we take our shoes off, and never sit on pillows etc. It's a respect thing.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I've only read the OP.

No problem at all. I don't even really register nude toddlers out in public. Once they hit maybe 5, I notice them, but I don't care. I can't see any reason why kids shouldn't be able to be naked. The pervert argument doesn't impact on me at all. I don't like the idea of some pedophile getting their jollies over my kid...but I don't like that idea, whether my child is naked or clothed. We had a janitor at my elementary school who liked to grope the girls, and he never saw any of us naked...he still did a lot of damage. It's possible a pedophile saw ds1 naked when he was little, or that one has seen ds2 naked (he runs out of the house naked any time someone forgets to put the chain on the front door), but if they have, I don't know about it, and they haven't hurt either of my kids.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *primjillie* 
What happened to modesty?

Good point. It honestly would have never crossed my mind to think of this, as "modesty" to me, has absolutely nothing to do with nudity or the lack thereof. (I find the two usages of "modesty" - the humility one and the nudity one - really interesting, actually.) I don't really understand the concept of body modesty, and have no idea how it applies to a small child. So, if someone has an issue with a small child being naked, I do tend to assume that it's either a hang-up about the human body, or fear of perverts. I'll have to try to keep your post in mind in future.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angie7* 
Frankly, I think it is completely irresponsible on the parents part. First off, no child should ever be naked in public and secondly, wth where they thinking? Perverts might be perverts with clothes on too but come on, that's just asking for it. Poor little boy.

"Just asking for it?" Please tell me you didn't just say that.

Quote:

I don't even let my girls diapers show if they are wearing a dress. I put little shorts on underneath b/c I don't want someone getting their "rocks off" at my dds'







:
I hope you don't actually think that putting shorts on your child is going to make any difference to whether or not a pervert is getting his "rocks off". If they're turned on by little kids, they're turned on by little kids.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angie7* 
I don't care if the parents were right there, the thoughts of a pervert are enough for me to keep my child covered. They might still think nasty thoughts about my children but I know that I did everything in my power to cover my child up.

I'm not even following this. So, your child is covered up. The pervert is still thinking nasty things. What, exactly, has been accomplished?

Quote:

It isn't about the act of molestation but the thoughts of doing it to your child. How you would feel if a man was staring at your child intently with a "tent" in his shorts as your child played by the pool. Would you let him b/c he wasn't activily molesting your child? It's just a thought, right?
It would creep me out. It did. There was a guy who used to frequent a local community pool when I was about 10. He used to sit under the water, and a couple times a friend told me she saw him playing with himself while he watched the kids swim. I didn't believe her until I saw it myself. We were about 10, and I'm pretty sure we were among the kids he was watching. We were wearing bathing suits, just as everyone else in the pool was. Yet, he deliberately went there to watch people (mostly kids, and I'm pretty sure that's who he was watching) and get off on it.

I am curious as to what, exactly, anybody could do about it if he just had a "tent in his shorts"? (Nobody could do much as it was, because he put it away if he saw an adult glance his way.) Nobody can stop another person from being aroused, no matter how messed up it is.

FWIW, I used to play naked all the time...in my yard and sometimes in public. I was also molested by two different men - a relative and a school janitor. Neither of those men _ever_ saw me playing naked...not even once. If I, as the child, had a choice between a pedophile getting off looking at my naked self, or someone actually molesting my clothed self, I really don't care about what someone was thinking...not even a little bit.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The4OfUs* 
...but even at home, I just don't get like, playing nude. My kids play hard and fast, and I can envision lots of situations where private parts would get in the way of that (or things could get in the way of private parts), where things would get irritated, or stuck places, or chafed...

All three of my children have spent most of their childhood naked. If they don't want to get dressed at home, they don't have to (undies are required at the table from an early age, but that's more dh's thing than mine). Except for _one_ incident, when one of my boys got his foreskin caught in a Rubik's cube, I've never had any of those things happen...no irritation (nothing they felt was worth mentioning, anyway), no chafing, not getting things stuck.

Quote:

Maybe I need to investigate my inner thoughts more...I don't get a shame vibe when I see naked kids in public, just more of a "why?" vibe.
Well, for me, it's because my kids like being naked. I guess I come at it more from a "Why not?" kind of place.


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## Maluhia (Jun 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lerlerler* 
Gee whiz..
My kids wear rash guards and bike short swim bottoms.

Modesty? Nope
But I always wondered how much sunscreen a naked child must have on!

For us - a lot. We put sunscreen on totally naked each morning before clothes and reapply if she strips off her clothing throughout the day. We buy at Costco









Quote:


Originally Posted by *angie7* 
Frankly, I think it is completely irresponsible on the parents part. First off, no child should ever be naked in public and secondly, wth where they thinking? Perverts might be perverts with clothes on too but come on, that's just asking for it. Poor little boy.

I don't even let my girls diapers show if they are wearing a dress. I put little shorts on underneath b/c I don't want someone getting their "rocks off" at my dds'







:

Whoa - did you really just say that ... that children are asking to be molested? I really thing you need to read up on what is and is not really a risk to your children because shorts won't make a difference if someone wants to think gross thoughts in his or her head.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AbbieB* 
This attitude really freaks me out. All I am thinking when reading this is how this kind of thinking is why women are mandated to wear burkas in other cultures. It's all to protect them from other's unclean thoughts.









:


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## darcytrue (Jan 23, 2009)

I'm not comfortable with it. If it's a place where an adult wouldn't go naked then why allow a child to do so? I assure you if the child were older and had a choice in the matter they would not choose to do it.

I haved passed houses on occasion where a child would be running in the yard naked. I assume they are potty training them but it bothers me. I don't care what someone does inside their own home, their business. But keep the kid in the back yard, don't allow them to stand by the side of a busy road and aim their pee at cars driving by. Yes I witnessed this once by a boy that was around 18 mos-2 yrs old. Tacky IMO. The parents and other people were sitting on the front porch watching with no expression at all. It was normal to them I guess.


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## darcytrue (Jan 23, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KailuaMamatoMaya* 
I really thing you need to read up on what is and is not really a risk to your children because shorts won't make a difference if someone wants to think gross thoughts in his or her head.

Actually, reading up on anything doesn't tell you what really goes on in the world.









And I also used to put shorts on my DD, not for the reason that is mentioned here regarding perverts thinking something, but because for the longest time she was not very ladylike in a dress and I prefer to look like a decent mother by putting shorts on my DD when I "know" in advance that she will go to the park or someone's house and do flips and sit with spread eagled on the ground, floor or couch and doesn't care who sees the goods. I knew lots of moms that practiced this same type of thing with their active DDs when they were younger.


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## Bluegoat (Nov 30, 2008)

I tend to think that public nudity is really a cultural thing, so in some places being nude at the beach is ok, others you need a bathing suit, the Victorians covered themselves entirely. And they don't necessarily mean one culture is being oppressive and another not - it's somewhat random. Covering or nudity can be bad if they demonstrate contempt for others or the body. Generally, adults should respect those cultural boundaries - it's unkind to go around making people uncomfortable, that would be a way of showing disrespect for the body in those circumstances.

The virtue of modesty in particular means not purposefully being sexual titillating to others in inappropriate circumstances - so it could be related to public nudity, but a person could also be naked inappropriately just because they were rude, or clueless.

What is appropriate for kids is not always the same, though it varies too by culture. But in a lot of cases, it's only as children become aware of the social boundaries and conventions that they need to observe them. It varies between kids to some degree, but also depends on teaching them when they are able to understand. My dd is 4 - I don't have a problem teaching her that it is not polite to pick her nose in public. She is still pretty natural about her body, but I've started to mention some situations where clothing is a requirement, and I just present it as a social convention.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

I never let my kids be naked in public due to sun exposure. If it's warm enough to go naked outside, then the sun is pretty strong and I don't want my kids sunburned! I feel the same way about sleeveless shirts- either we want sleeves for warmth or for sun protection. At the beach, my kids are in rash guards or t-shirts over their suits.

But there is NOTHING wrong with naked babies! If I saw a naked toddler coming my way, I'd think "aww, cute baby!" If I saw a clothed toddler, I'd think the same thing!

My only specific concern about a naked toddler vs a toddler in a skimpy bathing suit is "you're not REALLY going to use sunscreen down there, are you?" But with some common sense precautions (covering up the baby or taking him inside after 20 minutes, not doing this at high noon, etc) I don't see any issues.

Sexual predators are going to be attracted to kids with their clothes on or without. A naked toddler walking on the beach with Mommy and Grandma is not in any danger while out on the beach. He's at much greater risk of molestation at home with a "trusted" family member or babysitter.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *darcytrue* 
I'm not comfortable with it. If it's a place where an adult wouldn't go naked then why allow a child to do so? I assure you if the child were older and had a choice in the matter they would not choose to do it.

I haved passed houses on occasion where a child would be running in the yard naked. I assume they are potty training them but it bothers me. I don't care what someone does inside their own home, their business. But keep the kid in the back yard, don't allow them to stand by the side of a busy road and aim their pee at cars driving by. Yes I witnessed this once by a boy that was around 18 mos-2 yrs old. Tacky IMO. The parents and other people were sitting on the front porch watching with no expression at all. It was normal to them I guess.

The children, if older, might choose not to go naked. But that doesn't mean anything. There are plenty of children and adults who are perfectly willing to go naked on the beach.

I do believe that children only grow into wearing clothes all the time because we socialize them to wear clothes all the time. People who grew up in households where nudity was not in anyway frowned upon are less likely to view clothes as nessicary for being modest.

I personally feel there is a difference between being clothed and being modest. One can be modest while naked by not flaunting their body, while the opposite is also true, one can be immodest while wearing clothes by flaunting their body.


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## angie7 (Apr 23, 2007)

Sorry I didn't mean to use the words "just asking for it" I have a sick kid and she was upset and I was trying to post quickly, I apologize. It is never a child's fault as to why they were molested, ever.

I know that nothing I do will stop a pervert from thinking nasty thoughts but in my mind, if my toddler is naked, he is able to have even nastier ones vs. if she is fully clothed. And like the others, it's about modesty as well. Of course I worry about pervs in this world but I also don't think it's appriopate for a child to be naked in public.

That doesn't make it a wrong thing for me to think this? It's called an opinion and everyone has one. And just for the record, if there was a man staring at my child at the local pool, I would leave. I would not allow him to think sexually about my child.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angie7* 
Sorry I didn't mean to use the words "just asking for it" I have a sick kid and she was upset and I was trying to post quickly, I apologize. It is never a child's fault as to why they were molested, ever.

I know that nothing I do will stop a pervert from thinking nasty thoughts but in my mind, if my toddler is naked, he is able to have even nastier ones vs. if she is fully clothed. And like the others, it's about modesty as well. Of course I worry about pervs in this world but I also don't think it's appriopate for a child to be naked in public.

That doesn't make it a wrong thing for me to think this? It's called an opinion and everyone has one. And just for the record, if there was a man staring at my child at the local pool, I would leave. I would not allow him to think sexually about my child.

You don't have to think it's right for toddlers to be naked. But you can't go around calling people irrisponsable because they don't agree with you.

Clothes don't limit the nastiness of what a pedophile thinks, unless that pedophile has never seen a naked human being before that it. Which is highly unlikely.


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## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
The perverts will still be perverts if the boy had had clothes on. It's up to the parents and the toddler to decide if he wears clothes and no one else. I say no big deal.









:

my biggest concerns would be sunburn and potty accidents. the whole pervert factor isn't really on my radar with this, to be honest.


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## PGNPORTLAND (Jul 9, 2005)

If you can't run nakey butt on a beach when you are three, when CAN you do it?


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

After some naked pictures of my DD (baby but still) of my DD that I never took popped up on a google search including a blog with some not so nice comments. I've been very careful of who what my child wears in public and who gets to take her picture. FOr me personally it deffiently crosses my level of comfort.

Deanna


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## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angie7* 
And just for the record, if there was a man staring at my child at the local pool, I would leave. I would not allow him to think sexually about my child.

but you do realize, right, that once he has SEEN your child, he can forever and ever think sexually about your child? he can fantasize about your child every day for the rest of his life. and there's no LETTING him or not letting him. it's just completely beyond your control. i really don't get why you're so hung up on this issue. you can never ever stop pedophiles from fantasizing about your children...just like you can never stop your DH from fantasizing about other women (or men).


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## transylvania_mom (Oct 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angie7* 
I know that nothing I do will stop a pervert from thinking nasty thoughts but in my mind, if my toddler is naked, he is able to have even nastier ones vs. if she is fully clothed.

*I don't think this is necessarily true. I've seen perverts once or twice when I was around 8 y/o next to my school; one was even masturbating while looking at children wearing their school uniform.
*
That doesn't make it a wrong thing for me to think this? It's called an opinion and everyone has one.
*
As you said, everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. This doesn't make people irresponsible parents.
*

Sorry, I don't know how to do multiple quotes.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *darcytrue* 
I'm not comfortable with it. If it's a place where an adult wouldn't go naked then why allow a child to do so? I assure you if the child were older and had a choice in the matter they would not choose to do it.

And, how exactly can you "assure" us of that? I left the clothing thing entirely up to ds1. He chose to be _always_ naked in the house until he was about 6. He was almost always naked outside, weather permitting, until about the same age. When asked if he wanted to put clothes on, he generally said "no". So...when he had a choice in the matter, he chose to be naked, not clothed.

DH dislikes the kids being out in public naked, and I'm not going to get into an argument about it, so dd and ds2 have to put clothes on if they go outside. Neither one of them agrees with the rule, and neither one of them likes it.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angie7* 
I know that nothing I do will stop a pervert from thinking nasty thoughts but in my mind, if my toddler is naked, he is able to have even nastier ones vs. if she is fully clothed.

I have never in my life heard or seen anything to support this. They can have plenty of nasty thoughts about a fully clothed child. They can perform plenty of nasty _acts_ on a fully clothed child.

Quote:

That doesn't make it a wrong thing for me to think this? It's called an opinion and everyone has one.
You can think what you want, but that doesn't make me irresponsible for thinking otherwise.

Quote:

And just for the record, if there was a man staring at my child at the local pool, I would leave. I would not allow him to think sexually about my child.
Of course you can leave - I probably would, too. But, I'm not sure how you think you have any power at all over what he _thinks_ about your child.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The4OfUs* 
Especially at the beach - all that sun, the sand...oof...I have serious sand issues anyway, the thought of them getting in all those folds, etc. [shudder]









I had some nudist friends when I was younger. The woman told me a couple of times that she preferred clothing optional beaches, because sand wasn't as much of a problem without a bathing suit. I never tried skinny dipping or hanging out naked on the beach, but I'd have to trust her opinion over mine, yk?


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeminijad* 
My DD (and future children) will not be nude in 'public.' We'll teach them not to be ashamed of their bodies, but to recognize that *not everyone has the right to see their private areas*... JMO based on my own negative experiences as a child.

I agree. My children are 100% comfy in their bodies and know their bodies are nothing to be ashamed of, but they also know as they mature that some areas of their bodies are special and aren't meant to be shown to just anyone. It isn't a cover the shameful parts of your body thing, it's a respect the intimate areas of your body thing.

And I had no negative experiences as a child. (Sorry you did, jeminijad).

FWIW, I wouldn't run around in a panic either if any kiddo got loose at the beach or wherever and was running around naked. Nor would I care if I saw another naked toddler, though I would be concerned about sand in the "parts" and _others_ watching with ill intent.


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## Sailor (Jun 13, 2006)

This is pretty normal in Poland. I spend the summers at the Baltic sea there, and nude toddlers and kids abound. The adults wear clothes, but anyone below age 7 - usually nothing there.

My cousins ran around, alternatively nude and in their underwear, at the beach. I mean, not on a nude beach.

It doesn't seem like a big deal to me - but, then, I also spent a lot of time on nude beaches when I was growing up. So nudity (adult or child) ... eh, no big deal.

Re: sand - I also found that being nude at the beach is WAY easier in terms of not getting sand where you don't want it. Bathing suits seem to trap sand in all the wrong places. In my experience, at least.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sancta* 
I agree. My children are 100% comfy in their bodies and know their bodies are nothing to be ashamed of, but they also know as they mature that some areas of their bodies are special and aren't meant to be shown to just anyone. It isn't a cover the shameful parts of your body thing, it's a respect the intimate areas of your body thing.

I guess I have trouble with this one, too. It's like the only way people can respect their own intimate areas is by adhering to the rules/norms somebody _else_ sets for them. I just don't get how that works.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sailor* 
Re: sand - I also found that being nude at the beach is WAY easier in terms of not getting sand where you don't want it. Bathing suits seem to trap sand in all the wrong places. In my experience, at least.

I was thinking about this after my last post. I don't like the beach, so I've had very little adult experience, either way. When I am at the beach, I'm generally in the water, or sitting on a log or rock, so I don't deal with much sand. But, I do remember going _crazy_ with sand stuck in my bathing suit as a kid. It drove me nuts. There was no way to get it off, and even going into the water to rinse the suit didn't help. I'd have to think that sand on bare skin would be better.


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *junie* 
The thing is, though, if someone is going to do this, they'll do it regardless of whether your dds are clothed. Your dds could be in full snowsuits, and this could still happen.

I don't know how much I believe this. If that was the case, then they could just sell Playboy with fully clothed models, no?









The fact is that a perv is going to have a tougher time thinking up pervy thoughts about a clothed child than one whose parts are just there for him to watch.

I mean, seriously, if a sicko is hanging out at a beach, which kids is he going to be watching? The clothed ones or the naked ones?


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## Sailor (Jun 13, 2006)

Well, at a beach, aren't kids unclothed anyway? They wear bathing suits. Some of them just the bottoms. Some of them (IMO, fairly sexy bikinis - which I find scary). That's very easy to perv on. Bathing suits are featured in lots of sex/risque magazines.


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## Qerratsmom (Sep 22, 2004)

I see it this way. there are so few years in your life that you can get away with running naked at the beach and it is a great feeling (if any of you can remember it) I want my kids to be able to do that for as long as they are comfortable. That being said, we don't usually go to crowded beaches and I am always close by.


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I guess I have trouble with this one, too. It's like the only way people can respect their own intimate areas is by adhering to the rules/norms somebody _else_ sets for them. I just don't get how that works.

I'm raising my kids to be adults. In my culture, adults don't walk around naked. Not because our bodies are shameful (because they certainly aren't!) but because there are parts we don't just let anyone and everyone see. So once my kids are old enough to understand that, then running around naked isn't something I encourage anymore. There is a time when I want them to realize that their "special" parts truly are special and aren't to be shown to everyone.


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sailor* 
Well, at a beach, aren't kids unclothed anyway? They wear bathing suits. Some of them just the bottoms. Some of them (IMO, fairly sexy bikinis - which I find scary). That's very easy to perv on. Bathing suits are featured in lots of sex/risque magazines.

I'm calling bathing suits clothing for the time being. Bathing suit vs naked. A perv will be watching the naked kids, and if there are no naked kids he'll likely be watching the kids the most skimpily dressed. Is skimpily a word? Probably not.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sancta* 
I don't know how much I believe this. If that was the case, then they could just sell Playboy with fully clothed models, no?









Sure, the sex magazines feature naked women. But, guys still comment sexually on models on the cover of Cosmo or whatever who are fully dressed. I've heard dozens, if not hundreds, of sexually speculative comments about actresses that the men making the comments have never seen naked. I've personally had some pretty intense fantasies about men I've seen walking around in jeans and t-shirts.

In any case, Playboy - at least the last time I flipped through one - doesn't feature naked women walking on the beach. It features naked women in very sexually provocative positions, with captions and quotes that are definitely intended to provoke sexual thoughts. Most times when I've seen an ordinary woman naked (in a movie or something), the guys in the room have been not very interested. Playboy (and the rest) sell fantasy, not sex.

Quote:

The fact is that a perv is going to have a tougher time thinking up pervy thoughts about a clothed child than one whose parts are just there for him to watch.
Do you have any evidence to support this at all? I've seen this sentiment many times, but nobody has anything to back it up, except gut feeling. Nudity doesn't equal sex between adults, so there's no reason to assume that it does so for a pedophile. (I have to say that clothing has never inhibited _my_ ability to think "pervy thoughts".)

Quote:

I mean, seriously, if a sicko is hanging out at a beach, which kids is he going to be watching? The clothed ones or the naked ones?
Well, the sicko at my community poll went there, precisely so that he could observe kids _in bathing suits_. There were always at least some naked kids around outside...but in the summer, he haunted an indoor pool, with "no nudity" rules. So...I'd guess it really depends on the sicko.

A fig leaf is a symbol. It's not going to stop sexual speculation, whether the person wearing it is a child or an adult.


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## Rico'sAlice (Mar 19, 2006)

Since it has gotten warm DS is generally outside naked or w/ a shirt only on for an hour or so each morning. (Between 8-9:30 am)
The rest of the day I *try* to keep clothes on him, but he is constantly taking off his pants and diaper or trainers.
The only reason I try to get clothes back on him is the sun.
I can't imagine having a problem with it for modesty reasons until he is much older. Like verging on puberty. Although I fully expect him to decide to wear clothes more often before it gets to that point.
In a more public place like the beach or lake it would probably be somewhere closer to 4/5 when I'd feel uncomfortable with him being naked. [Unless it was a nude beach, of course] Just b/c by then it seems like he would have a chance of running into female peers who might be uncomfortable at seeing him naked.
I am generally happy to see cute little toddlers running around naked.

[Tangent] but I do have to admit that I sometimes feel uncomfortable seeing little boys that have been circed, b/c I have become accustomed to seeing the glans of a penis only during sex so it is jarring for me to see it out and about. Not that they appear sexual to me exactly, but it just throws me for a loop. However, that's just my issue and I don't think it should stop them! But maybe that is how some people feel about nudity in public in general. For whatever reason I just happen to know lots of people around here that let their kids run around naked so I'm used to it. But I guess if you're not it can be a big deal.[/Tangent]


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sancta* 
I'm calling bathing suits clothing for the time being. Bathing suit vs naked. *A perv will be watching the naked kids*, and if there are no naked kids he'll likely be watching the kids the most skimpily dressed. Is skimpily a word? Probably not.









Again - prove it. I've never seen any backup on this - not ever.

I was one of the most tomboy-ish girls in my 6th (and 7th) grade class. As a result of my lack of interest in fashion, etc., I tended to be far less skimpily dressed than many/most of my female classmates. That didn't stop our perverted janitor from getting his hands on me...or on a friend of mine, who was similarly tomboy-ish. He didn't care about skimpily dressed.


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
Well, the sicko at my community poll went there, precisely so that he could observe kids _in bathing suits_. There were always at least some naked kids around outside...but in the summer, he haunted an indoor pool, with "no nudity" rules. So...I'd guess it really depends on the sicko.

True, but I wonder if nudity WAS allowed - who would the sicko have been watching then? The nude children, likely.

No, nothing to back it up. It just makes sense, doesn't it?







: Is there anything to back up the claim that it makes no difference whether the child is clothed or not? <--I agree that a pervert will be a pervert regardless the way a child is dressed, but I speculate that being naked piques his interest much more.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sancta* 
True, but I wonder if nudity WAS allowed - who would the sicko have been watching then? The nude children, likely.

It's not that likely, imo. There _were_ places he could have gone to watch nude children, so if that was what he wanted, why was he at a pool where there was _no_ chance he'd see one? He _chose_ to hang out somewhere and look at _clothed_ children.

Quote:

No, nothing to back it up. It just makes sense, doesn't it?







: Is there anything to back up the claim that it makes no difference whether the child is clothed or not? <--I agree that a pervert will be a pervert regardless the way a child is dressed, but I speculate that being naked piques his interest much more.
Well, no - it doesn't make sense to me.

I've never seen anything about human psychology that suggests that nudity is more titillating, or more likely to promote sexual speculation, than being covered up...never. Citing things like Playboy doesn't even count, for the aforementioned reasons (deliberately provocative poses, etc.). If nudity is the most titillating, why does sexy lingerie even exist? I think the "nudity=sex" mindset is largely a self-fulfilling prophecy. We hide nudity and think of it as something sexual, and turn it into something sexual.

I'm not a child, so it's a different issue, but I can guarantee that there's nothing any sexier about my naked butt sitting on the couch reading a book than if I were doing the same thing in clothing.

ETA: I can't prove my point, either...but I do have life experiences that back up the idea that nudity doesn't make a difference to perverts and pedophiles. I have no life experience to suggest the opposite. I just have to wonder how the assertion that pedophiles will _obviously_ be more interested in a naked child than a clothed one has become such an accepted belief, without being backed up.


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I'm not a child, so it's a different issue, but I can guarantee that there's nothing any sexier about my naked butt sitting on the couch reading a book than if I were doing the same thing in clothing.

I know nothing about Playboy. Never even seen one. (I just assumed in other words that everyone was naked).

My hubby would disagree with you about the naked butt on the couch thing, though. I'm definitely more sexy _to him_ when I'm unclothed than clothed.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sancta* 
I know nothing about Playboy. Never even seen one. (I just assumed in other words that everyone was naked).

Oh, they're naked...but they're not _just_ naked.

Quote:

My hubby would disagree with you about the naked butt on the couch thing, though. I'm definitely more sexy _to him_ when I'm unclothed than clothed.








Fair enough. For whatever reason, turn dh on incredibly, whether I'm clothed or not. But, my being naked really doesn't add to it for him, as far as I can tell. I've talked to a lot of guys about it, and most of them have expressed a preference for clothes (or lingerie) over nudity, until they're ready to actually have sex. They liken it to opening a birthday present...ie. clothing creates a sense of anticipation that nudity lacks. I've also heard more than one person say - sadly - that the naked human form is nowhere near as stimulating as what one's imagination can conjure when a person is clothed and hiding things.

And, I'm going to drop it now, as we're going way OT. This has nothing to do with toddlers, anymore.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sancta* 
True, but I wonder if nudity WAS allowed - who would the sicko have been watching then? The nude children, likely.

No, nothing to back it up. It just makes sense, doesn't it?







: Is there anything to back up the claim that it makes no difference whether the child is clothed or not? <--I agree that a pervert will be a pervert regardless the way a child is dressed, but I speculate that being naked piques his interest much more.

Actually it doesn't make sense. Behaviourists have found that men tend to be more attracted to the mystery of what's under the skimpy clothes then the non-mystery of no clothes. So that logic states the clothed children are more of a target for pedophiles then the nude ones.


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## NewDirections (Jul 18, 2008)

Quote:

is it ever ok for a toddler to be naked in public
No way! I would never be comfortable with my child of any age being naked in public! This may have a lot to do with the fact with I was molested as a child.


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## Litcrit (Feb 23, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
Good point. It honestly would have never crossed my mind to think of this, as "modesty" to me, has absolutely nothing to do with nudity or the lack thereof. (I find the two usages of "modesty" - the humility one and the nudity one - really interesting, actually.) I don't really understand the concept of body modesty, and have no idea how it applies to a small child.

Yes, I find it difficult to understand too, and I've only found these two separate meanings of 'modesty' in the English language - in mine, 'modesty' only covers 'humility', not showing off or bragging. I guess it can be stretched to mean not showing off your beautiful and sexy body, or something like that. But I fail to see how that can apply to small pre-sexual kids.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sailor* 
Re: sand - I also found that being nude at the beach is WAY easier in terms of not getting sand where you don't want it. Bathing suits seem to trap sand in all the wrong places. In my experience, at least.

Yes. Last year, my naked daughter had fewer sand problems than dh and I, who were wearing bathing suits, did.


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## transylvania_mom (Oct 8, 2006)

well, that's why I chose to clothe my ds on the beach after the age of two. The risk of people tsk-tsk-ing and rolling their eyes at my child's nudity is FAR GREATER than that of him being targeted by a predator.

As I said before, the only times I saw perverts obviously looking at children and masturbating, was near schools, where children were fully clothed. And the speculation that a pervert would go to the beach and prefer looking at naked toddlers instead of diapered ones is just that... a speculation.


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## Bluegoat (Nov 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I guess I have trouble with this one, too. It's like the only way people can respect their own intimate areas is by adhering to the rules/norms somebody _else_ sets for them. I just don't get how that works.

Well, as we get older, we tend to learn what is erotic or sexual from the culture around us - I think this is true even when we are aware of the cultural aspect, and perhaps don't like the particular way it is percieved. As well, because we have to live with other people, we can't avoid being affected by what they perceive as sexual.

So, in one place men and women may wear no or little clothing. So nakedness and the body would not automatically be seen as a sign or public sexuality. But of course they still have actions/words that indicate sexual interest or intent to others. Engaging in those things inappropriately (with a sister-in law, or a communal area, for example) would still be inappropriate. And there is no real way to get away from the perceptions of others. If the sign for being sexually interested in someone is sticking out your tongue, you can't go around doing it, and claiming you just like to do it and don't accept the other meaning or intend anything by it. As long as the person knows the meaning, they are in some way bound by the fact that society gives it that meaning. And someone else sticking their tongue out at the person in question is still making asexual gesture, no matter what the first person thinks it should mean.


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## Mama.Pajama (Jul 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angie7* 
Frankly, I think it is completely irresponsible on the parents part. First off, no child should ever be naked in public and secondly, wth where they thinking? Perverts might be perverts with clothes on too but come on, that's just asking for it. Poor little boy.

I don't even let my girls diapers show if they are wearing a dress. I put little shorts on underneath b/c I don't want someone getting their "rocks off" at my dds'







:

So I realize that a lot of people have found what angie7 said to be outrageous, and I don't mean to join in on a stoning or anything...
But seriously. I can't believe that you would say "that's just asking for it". That is just ignorant. I was fully clothed when I was picked out of my 1st grade class to be hauled off to the custodian's closet and sodomized by a school janitor when the moment was right for him. He saw right through my clothes.
*It doesn't matter whether you have clothes on or not- a predator will prey.
*


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## junie (Jan 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama.Pajama* 
So I realize that a lot of people have found what angie7 said to be outrageous, and I don't mean to join in on a stoning or anything...
But seriously. I can't believe that you would say "that's just asking for it". That is just ignorant. I was fully clothed when I was picked out of my 1st grade class to be hauled off to the custodian's closet and sodomized by a school janitor when the moment was right for him. He saw right through my clothes.
*It doesn't matter whether you have clothes on or not- a predator will prey.
*

To be fair, angie7 did apologize for the "that's just asking for it" comment. It sounds like she didn't mean it like that, but mistyped because she was distracted at the time by her dd. I think that's what she said, anyway.


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## junie (Jan 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sancta* 
True, but I wonder if nudity WAS allowed - who would the sicko have been watching then? The nude children, likely.

No, nothing to back it up. It just makes sense, doesn't it?


Actually, NOTHING about a grown man, or woman, getting sexually turned on by a child makes sense to me. Assuming, for a moment, that nudity=sexual (which I DO NOT), the parts of the body that are supposed to arouse someone (i.e.- the ones we cover) are underdeveloped in children. There's much more to look at on an adult. So to me, the logical conclusion is that the attraction has NOTHING to do with nakedness, but simply about the child being a child.

The assumption being made with the pervert argument is that a pervert will be sexually aroused in the same ways as normal people. That's a big assumption, IMO, since just the very fact that these individuals are turned on by children means that what turns them on is VASTLY different from a normal person. Does that mean that they AREN'T turned on by naked children? No. Some probably are, but to try to figure out what a pervert is thinking, and then doing anything you can to "prevent" their thoughts, is a waste of time, IMO. You CAN'T know what they're thinking, and normal logic doesn't work here, since normally, they SHOULDN'T BE AROUSED BY CHILDREN!

Again, that does NOT mean there is anything wrong with you if you choose to cloth your children. Others who choose not to cloth their children are not wrong either. And neither group is _logically_ more likely protecting their child from perverts. Perverts are not logical.


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## Ericka1999 (Aug 4, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
The perverts will still be perverts if the boy had had clothes on. It's up to the parents and the toddler to decide if he wears clothes and no one else. I say no big deal.

I agree with that perverts will still be perverts if the child has or doesnt have clothes on.But one must be carefull with that..


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

i cringe cringe cringe from the attitude towards nudity here - esp. towards children. i am from asia.

it pains me that a toddler has to learn so young that taking off clothes is not ok.

my dd had to learn too and it was a huge internal struggle for me.

i dont buy into the pervert thing. they have existed right from teh beginning which is why incest has been taboo in many ancient societies. they are just getting caught now. i am sure when i ran around naked outside as a toddler some pervert surely was watching me. *shrug*


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## WantRice (Jan 23, 2007)

I often see naked toddlers on the beach here in Vancouver. I went to Cuba around Christmas and there were a lot of Italian tourists at my resort. All the little Italian girls ran around the beach with no tops on, even up to age 9 or 10. Before they start developing I'm guessing??? They're kids. I don't see what the big deal is. Sure there are some perverts out there but the vast majority of people do not see children as sexual beings and it's just so footloose and fancy free to be naked as a child. Maybe as an adult too


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## intentionalmama (Aug 23, 2008)

Well, I have a recently turned six year old boy; who still loves to be naked. This year at the beach, I got him to wear his underwear, when he wanted to strip down out of his bathing suit. But at home in the back yard on a summer day he loves to be naked. We don't have a back fence so the yard is fairly open to the alley. Last year I remember him riding his bike naked around on the paved part of our property. And, I delight in his freedom and his innocence.. I, personally am much more reserved and would not be caught naked outside anywhere; but I know that this time will probably be coming to an end for him soon. We homeschool so he hasn't yet had the pressure of conforming as much as in the school system.

The other day a friend and her daughter came over. Well, half way through the visit outside, he takes off all his clothes and just starts playing whatever it is they were playing. I felt torn inside, one part of me wondered how my friend felt, and I had that feeling of wanting to ask him to put clothes on; but there was another part of me that just wanted him to be himself and not make him cover up. So I bit my tongue and didn't say anything. After reading this thread, I see that she may not have felt comfortable. I imagine if that is the case they won't be coming over again on a hot day. That said, I do have other friends who feel the same way I do and we have been treasuring these moments.


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bluegoat* 
I tend to think that public nudity is really a cultural thing, so in some places being nude at the beach is ok, others you need a bathing suit, the Victorians covered themselves entirely. And they don't necessarily mean one culture is being oppressive and another not - it's somewhat random.

That makes sense. But even something like this being cultural doesn't matter IMO. There are sexual predators in all countries. They aren't limited to our country so even in countries where it's considered "normal" to roam a beach naked it doesn't mean there aren't a bunch of sexual predators there just for that reason, to see barely clothed and naked people.







So it's the same no matter how you look at it. All it comes down to is someone feeling comfortable enough to do this or to allow their very young child to do this and to not give a darn about what is going on around them.

If some people are comfortable doing this then that's fine IMO, but realize that there are going to be people who are not comfortable with it and people who are on that beach solely seeking out children and adults to watch and get off on it. What boggles my mind is that someone would allow their toddler to run naked on a beach knowing beforehand that sexual predators may be out there looking. I'd keep them at home so my child is safe and not being exposed to just anyone who feels like getting off on looking at them. I'm not naive so I know there's that possibility. Maybe some parents just don't know? And definitely if I were the type to let my toddler run naked on a beach (which I'm obviously not







) then I would be aware of my surroundings and definitely would not continue to do it if I saw a wedding going on very close. That's rude.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *intentionalmama*
That said, I do have other friends who feel the same way I do and we have been treasuring these moments.

but there are a lot of moments that I treasure with my children. This just isn't one of them.







I too treasure the moments when they are not shy about their bodies to a certain extent, but I also treasure the cute things they say and do and how they won't talk cute anymore as they get older, stuff like that, milestone stuff. But teaching them to be appropriately dressed when company comes over or when outdoors in front of our neighbors would be of utmost importance to me, especially if they are already school-aged and are old enough to know better.


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ericka1999* 
I agree with that perverts will still be perverts if the child has or doesnt have clothes on.But one must be carefull with that..

I agree. It's still up to each individual parent to decide what is best for "their" child, regardless of how long sexual predators have existed or whether or not they are out there and oh well, no big deal. I think that's strange if someone has that type of thinking. I never think what if, no big deal when it concerns my child and me making a decision that is best for them.


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I've never seen anything about human psychology that suggests that nudity is more titillating, or more likely to promote sexual speculation, than being covered up...never. Citing things like Playboy doesn't even count, for the aforementioned reasons (deliberately provocative poses, etc.). If nudity is the most titillating, why does sexy lingerie even exist? I think the "nudity=sex" mindset is largely a self-fulfilling prophecy. We hide nudity and think of it as something sexual, and turn it into something sexual.

I disagree. I agree that nudity can be seen as sexual and not sexual. And certainly a child on a beach running naked is not being sexual BUT to a sexual predator they are. So that's the thought in my mind. And I do see nakedness as more sexy depending on how it is delivered to the person seeing it and depending on the behavior of the person who is seeing it.







If a perve looks at a naked girl posing sexy in Playboy then uhhh..yeah, it's safe to assume he's not just looking at it for no reason other than to get off. Why would someone buy the magazine in the first place if they weren't intending on looking at it for that reason?


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## tireesix (Apr 27, 2006)

Plenty of men say they prefer women to be more covered so they can use their imaginations.

When I was with my climbing boy friend, there was nothing hotter than seeing him fully clothed with all his climbing gear on.

With DH I just love seeing him in ripped jeans.

Yeah, naked people can be sexy, but so are dressed people.

Naked or clothed, makes no difference.


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## Evergreen (Nov 6, 2002)

I live at the beach- in the USA- in the South. Typically with kids under three (both of mine included) when the bathing suit gets wet it comes off. I have never considered it would be controversial to let a toddler be naked on the beach. It's actually rare to find one that manages to stay fully covered the whole time!


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I wouldn't think much of it at all.....

But, the whole "What if he pees on something" thing would really bug me. I do have huge phobias about being anywhere near urine. (I avoid public pools)


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## angelpie545 (Feb 23, 2005)

Nakie kids are never a big deal to me. It's normal, you know? Like one of the first posters pointed out, pervs are going to be pervs no matter if your child is wearing clothes or not. Kids are innocent, and completely non-sexual. Therefore, I have no issues with them being naked and enjoying the summer weather in public.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy68* 
I disagree. I agree that nudity can be seen as sexual and not sexual. And certainly a child on a beach running naked is not being sexual BUT to a sexual predator they are. So that's the thought in my mind.

If there's a sexual predator (pedophile variety) on the beach, they're more than likely getting off on watching your kid, whether your kid is naked or not. That's reality. Wearing a swimsuit doesn't protect them from a pervert's imagination, any more than a woman wearing a swimsuit protects her from males noticing her body. Since I can't get into the head of a pedophile, I don't know for sure, but I have come across things that make me suspect that a childish swimsuit is actually _more_ of a turn on for these people, as it emphasizes their pre-pubesence status. We _cannot_ protect our children from being used to fuel the fantasies of perverts, except by keeping them in the house 24/7. It simply can't be done. A scrap of clothing certainly isn't sufficient.

Quote:

And I do see nakedness as more sexy depending on how it is delivered to the person seeing it and depending on the behavior of the person who is seeing it.







If a perve looks at a naked girl posing sexy in Playboy then uhhh..yeah, it's safe to assume he's not just looking at it for no reason other than to get off. Why would someone buy the magazine in the first place if they weren't intending on looking at it for that reason?
Of course they're buying it to look at the girls. However, you'll also note that girls in Playboy aren't innocently running down the beach or building a sand castle. That's the thing. Nudity, by itself, isn't really that titillating for many (most?) people. If it were, the poses in Playboy wouldn't be necessary, yk? It's not a magazine full of naked people going about their day...it's a magazine full of naked people, with unusually "good" bodies (by our cultural standards, anyway), airbrushed to "perfection", and striking _very_ provocative poses. Playbody isn't about nudity - it's about sex.


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## SandraS (Jan 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cekimon* 
Not a big deal or NO WAY... there are perverts out there and everyone on the planet has a cel phone with a camera!!

Not a big deal.

Crimes against children have declined over 70% in the past decade, I don't worry at all about it. Besides that, it will be Uncle Bob that does any molesting, not a stranger. Statistically speaking of course. Of course, an airplane could crash into my house tomorrow, but I can't stand there looking up waiting for it all day!


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## luv-my-boys (Dec 8, 2008)

QUOTE=jeminijad;13900529]I respectfully disagree that they are "very rare." Every time I hear the stats on the frequency of little girls being sexually abused, I'm blown away by how often it happens.

My DD (and future children) will not be nude in 'public.' We'll teach them not to be ashamed of their bodies, but to recognize that not everyone has the right to see their private areas... JMO based on my own negative experiences as a child.[/QUOTE]







:

This is what we do with our boys. Another question is what about sun protection? Even with sunscreen on I always make my boys wear longer swim trunks and a swim shirt w/hat to protect their skin. I would be more worried about sun damage than say a pervert. DH was a "sun worshipper" when he was a child and often when sans clothes. He has had some very painful mole removals







as a result of that exposure. I dont want my boys going thru that if I can reduce the damage done by the sun.


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## intentionalmama (Aug 23, 2008)

mommy68 said:


> *.but there are a lot of moments that I treasure with my children. This just isn't one of them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## ananas (Jun 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
The perverts will still be perverts if the boy had had clothes on. It's up to the parents and the toddler to decide if he wears clothes and no one else. I say no big deal.

Totally agree. I think small children being nude at a beach is fine. If I was the boy's mother, I probably would have guided him away from the ceremony, because it's a little odd to me that they walked right through it when they could have avoided it, but I probably would have whether the boy was naked or not.


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## jennpn (Jul 30, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeminijad* 
I respectfully disagree that they are "very rare." Every time I hear the stats on the frequency of little girls being sexually abused, I'm blown away by how often it happens.

My DD (and future children) will not be nude in 'public.' We'll teach them not to be ashamed of their bodies, but to recognize that not everyone has the right to see their private areas... JMO based on my own negative experiences as a child.

I very much agree with this poster. It is not shame it is about appropriatness. In our society it is simply not appropriate to be nude in public. You private places are private. I am also aware of predators. They are actually quite common and likely in the places where your children are. I don't want my child to be the meat in front of the rabid dog. He will wear a bathing suit, that is what they are for.


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## Heidi74 (Jan 21, 2009)

I'm from Norway, and DH is American. When we're in Norway, our kids can run around naked to their hearts content. (DS1 is just two now, but can keep doing so for a few years at least.) At the beach they're always naked, but so are practically all the other little kids. In the US we've always kept some clothes on just because people aren't as used to it and I'm worried about them overhearing some kind of remark or drawing attention from perverts...simply because it's not the norm. I wish we could let them do the same in the States, but we haven't so far because of the above reasons. I'm reading this thread with interest, though.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jennpn* 
I very much agree with this poster. It is not shame it is about appropriatness. In our society it is simply not appropriate to be nude in public. You private places are private. I am also aware of predators. They are actually quite common and likely in the places where your children are. I don't want my child to be the meat in front of the rabid dog. He will wear a bathing suit, that is what they are for.

hmm...I'd say it varies a lot. It's not inappropriate for a small child to be naked on a beach here. I've never seen anybody even comment on it.

As for your child being "meat in front of the rabid dog"...I'm sorry, but a swimsuit isn't going to change that. Pedophiles don't stop having sexual thoughts about children, just because those children have clothes on. It turns my stomach to think about it, but my disgust doesn't change it.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
hmm...I'd say it varies a lot. It's not inappropriate for a small child to be naked on a beach here. I've never seen anybody even comment on it.

Especially if it's Wreck beach.









(Couldn't help it!)


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Especially if it's Wreck beach.









(Couldn't help it!)

Never actually been there, but I'm not sure it's appropriate for a kid to be there at all (and not because of the nudity).

I'm not big on nude beaches after a family friend fell asleep at Wreck. Luckily, he was on his stomach, but he got a nasty sunburn and had trouble sitting down for quite a while...


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

It's a family beach. The only reason I can see for not going is that the government doesn't seem to care about sanitation or the safety of the beach goers, but that affects adults too.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
It's a family beach.

Maybe times have changed. When I was younger, it a very popular place to buy drugs.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
Maybe times have changed. When I was younger, it a very popular place to buy drugs.

Really? I know that on occasion you can buy pot, but that's not different then the rest of Vancouver really.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Really? I know that on occasion you can buy pot, but that's not different then the rest of Vancouver really.

This is getting way OT, but, yeah - it was a never-failing place to get pot, almost as sure fire for LSD, and I knew several people who got amphetamines there, too. I'm not sure about coke, because my friends knew I hated coke with a passion, so they probably wouldn't have mentioned it, yk?

So...I've always thought of it as not-so-family-friendly.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
This is getting way OT, but, yeah - it was a never-failing place to get pot, almost as sure fire for LSD, and I knew several people who got amphetamines there, too. I'm not sure about coke, because my friends knew I hated coke with a passion, so they probably wouldn't have mentioned it, yk?

So...I've always thought of it as not-so-family-friendly.

Never heard of the other drugs.

Your right we are getting way OT, but the thread has be revived at least twice. It's gotta die sometime so someone else can start another one.

You know a few years ago a woman got arrested for selling cookies. They were pot cookies, but still cookies and there was practically a riot over it. lol


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## tbone_kneegrabber (Oct 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
This is getting way OT, but, yeah - it was a never-failing place to get pot, almost as sure fire for LSD, and I knew several people who got amphetamines there, too. I'm not sure about coke, because my friends knew I hated coke with a passion, so they probably wouldn't have mentioned it, yk?

So...I've always thought of it as not-so-family-friendly.

By this definition of "family friendly" HIGH SCHOOL is not family friendly! *Any city* is not "family friendly!" Walking down the road isn't "family friendly" because someone _might_ be selling drugs. sheesh!

(sorry totally ot, but TRUE)


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tbone_kneegrabber* 
By this definition of "family friendly" HIGH SCHOOL is not family friendly! *Any city* is not "family friendly!" Walking down the road isn't "family friendly" because someone _might_ be selling drugs. sheesh!

(sorry totally ot, but TRUE)

Yeah - but there were a lot of people going to that beach precisely to buy (and sell) drugs. That tends to create an atmosphere that's not very friendly to children, yk?


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## momasana (Aug 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
Yeah - but there were a lot of people going to that beach precisely to buy (and sell) drugs. That tends to create an atmosphere that's not very friendly to children, yk?


But were the drug dealers _naked_?


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Wonder where they keep their stash...


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## Dandelionkid (Mar 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Wonder where they keep their stash...


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## littleplum (Jul 18, 2009)

At the beach is fine. Backyard is fine. When I read the title I had thought you meant the grocery store or something like that.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momasana* 
But were the drug dealers _naked_?


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *littleplum* 
At the beach is fine. Backyard is fine. When I read the title I had thought you meant the grocery store or something like that.

DS1 did that once. I'd walked over to the grocery store with him when he was a little past his third birthday. While we were standing in line, he suddenly decided to strip. So, I was simultaneously trying to unload my grocery cart and keep his clothes on. This included asking the woman behind me, as politely as I could, for ds1's sock, which had landed in her shopping basket. He managed to get all the way down to his underwear. I then wrestled his clothes back on, while paying for my groceries...the accompaniment of many understanding, friendly and largely amused looks from my fellow shoppers.

(Then, we walked home, but I had to carry ds1, because he was being crazy. It was hot out. I'd decided to wear a little make-up that day. I got home to find that my ponytail was pulled half out on one side, I had eyeliner smeared almost to my hair on one side, and my lipstick was likewise smeared on the other side. It was an interesting day.)


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
Of course they're buying it to look at the girls. However, you'll also note that girls in Playboy aren't innocently running down the beach or building a sand castle. That's the thing. Nudity, by itself, isn't really that titillating for many (most?) people. If it were, the poses in Playboy wouldn't be necessary, yk? It's not a magazine full of naked people going about their day...it's a magazine full of naked people, with unusually "good" bodies (by our cultural standards, anyway), airbrushed to "perfection", and striking _very_ provocative poses. Playbody isn't about nudity - it's about sex.

I disagree. But I guess it just depends on how one looks at it.







It's true that a sexual predator will hurt someone or look at someone no matter what they are wearing or not wearing, but that still doesn't make it okay in my mind to just let my child run naked for that reason alone. Seems silly to me actually to even use that type of reasoning.

I do know that I wouldn't allow my child to go naked in public at the age of 3 or the age of 13. It's all relative. It's my child and I just don't think it looks right. I wouldn't have anything against someone else doing it (never seen it done personally) but I don't agree with it. I'll just agree to disagree.


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## PezKitty (Jan 21, 2007)

I don't think there's anything wrong with it, but because there are so many sickos out there I wouldn't feel comfortable with my daughter being nude in public.


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Wonder where they keep their stash...

Perhaps it's best not to think about that one too much... stranger things've happened I guess... kopi luwak coffee

Oh yeah, back on topic. No, naked child on a beach wouldn't bother me, whatever the age. Walking through/in front of a wedding ceremony would seem a bit odd though, naked or no. I would rather a child streaker than an adult one at a wedding though!


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## crunchymamatobe (Jul 8, 2004)

We see naked kids (past toddler age, even, I'd guess 4-5 years) at our local splash park (not a swimming pool, but a play area with fountains) all the time. I wouldn't have any problem with my kid running around naked there if we'd forgotten a swimsuit, but we usually bring one. Same with the beach or backyards, but not for a wedding!


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## chirp (Feb 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AllisonR* 
If the couple chose to get married on a public beach (sounds beautiful), then they have to accept people playing frisbee or being naked.... the "nakee" one could have been my DS or DD!









i agree. i accidentally interrupted a wedding in the woods going on my morning walk. i didn't know there was going to be a wedding. SO i just snuck by as best I could hoping not to interrupt...but I did watch as i passed, because weddings are so nice.

A lot of those people didn't plan on being on the beach and walking their nakee boy around a wedding. It just happened.

oh yeah and for the record my little guy (15 months) is nakey everywhere. he's nakey right now. and he was before when i was out pruning the hedges in my front yard.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy68* 
I disagree. But I guess it just depends on how one looks at it.







It's true that a sexual predator will hurt someone or look at someone no matter what they are wearing or not wearing, but that still doesn't make it okay in my mind to just let my child run naked for that reason alone. Seems silly to me actually to even use that type of reasoning.

It's not reason to allow children to go naked, it's the reason why the possiblity of a sexual predator is not a good enough excuse for some to stop their children from going naked at the beach.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Count me with those who don't really care but probably wouldn't let my own kid do it because of practical issues (sand, sunburn).

I would not let my own 5yo be naked in public, though. For me I think the line is at about 3/4. I can see changing this standard if we lived in a different country.


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