# Anyone decide on a hospital birth after homebirth didn't live up to expectations?



## anilorak13ska (Mar 4, 2014)

Does anyone who had a planned homebirth for their first baby feel that it didn't live up to your expectations? Or for whatever other reason you would prefer a hospital birth next time?

There were definitely aspects of our homebirth that I loved and can't imagine doing any other way.... but two things give me pause. One, I did not care for the pain of natural childbirth. I was handling things just fine until my water broke. But even active labor I could see toughing it out again with DH's help, but pushing again?! Oh, no. The other thing is that my DD had an undiagnosed velamentous cord insertion, which thank God was not accompanied by vasa previa, but I now know that I had 4 of 5 risk factors, and having had one pregnancy with it, there is some indication of it happening again. I was on pins and needles as it was throughout my pregnancy bc it was an answer to 10 years of prayer on our infertility journey. My biggest concern once I got past the halfway mark was the cord being wrapped around baby's neck and a posterior or even breech presentation (baby finally flipped at about 36 weeks, which I know is within the norm, but it doesn't change my worry). DD's cord was indeed wrapped around her neck and torso, but to have the velamentous cord insertion on top of it gave me chills. I would just feel better going into a hospital next time.

I'm not at all criticizing the choice for homebirth, though. I'm just curious if anyone else went for it for their first and then wanted a hospital birth next time. I hear many women who deliver their first in a hospital and then opt for a homebirth, so I'm just curious if I'm a weirdo like that, doing things backwards.


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## loveneverfails (Feb 20, 2009)

I had two in hospital, three at home, two more back at the hospital. I really prefer birth with anesthesia. There are more of us out here than you might think!


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## ninabear (May 11, 2010)

I had a hospital birth for my first and the OB was terribly unsupportive of natural birth (I did it anyways though but it was emotionally hard on me). I had a home birth with my 2nd, but like you there were some things that made me decide on a hospital birth this 3rd time around.

With my 2nd, I ended up with a 3rd degree tear and had to go to the hospital for stitches (I had a 4th degree the first time). I'm at a higher risk of this happening yet again and would rather just be at the hospital already. Also, when my 2nd was born he had the cord around his neck so tight that it clamped itself and his heart stopped, so they had to resuscitate him and it was terrifying for me and my husband. But mostly I see this as an unforeseen complication that was unrelated to the home birth itself.

One of my big factors in choosing hospital this time is that I felt uncomfortable having the midwife/nurse/and even the doula at my home. I felt like I had to entertain them (I put out a bunch of food) and then felt uncomfortable laboring in front of what felt like an audience of people, and I felt like I was wasting their time especially when my labor stalled. I know DH is happy to not have to clean up from this 3rd pending birth, since he was responsible for emptying the birthing pool and cleaning up the house/etc. after the baby came.

I'm in a new area now that has a more naturally-minded hospital, and with a midwife practice instead of OBs, so hopefully that will make a difference!


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

You have to do what feels right to you. If you're more comfortable birthing in a hospital, then you should look into options in your area.


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## anilorak13ska (Mar 4, 2014)

Thanks, all. Other than not caring for the pain, I was also terribly disappointed that a natural/homebirth didn't guarantee a great start to breastfeeding. My midwife, birth assistant, pediatrician, even La Leche leader all thought DDs latch looked good, while I was in pain. Finally at about 9 weeks postpartum, after nipple damage, mastitis, breast accesses, antibiotics, and yeast infection, I met with a lactation consultant and the next day I was able to put DD back on the breast. We are now full time BF, but I thought the best we could do is exclusive pumping and formula supplementation.
Now I think if DD had been born in a hospital with a lactation consultant on staff, all this could have been avoided.
Sorry so long. Glad to hear I'm not the only one a bit disillusioned with my home birth.
Did anyone give you grief about making the choice to birth at home and then give you that "told you" attitude?


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## ocelotmom (Jul 29, 2003)

I would be hard-pressed to choose between hospital and homebirth if we still lived in an area with a hospital I trusted. I had a wonderful hospital birth with my second, and a nice homebirth with my third, but I didn't have great postpartum support with the homebirth (from family - the midwife did as much as could reasonably be expected!), and really could have used a few days at the hospital with no responsibility other than caring for the baby and myself.


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## HomesteadMomma (Dec 16, 2013)

Maybe I went into it with fewer expectations, but I was pretty happy with my homebirth experience. It probably would have been unbearable if I hadn't had pain relief from our birthing pool. The warm water mitigated all, to nearly all, pain the entire labor. I delivered the baby in the water as well and that went very well with only 18 minutes of pushing. I think a lot of it had to do with the fact that I had a fantastic midwife who made the environment exactly what I needed, was there when I needed it, backed off when I didn't, and was very experienced so I felt in excellent hands. Her expertise helped me not have any tearing, unlike my hospital birth. There were some aspects of it that were harder, like transition. But, the overall labor and recovery (especially the recovery) was so, so much better than my hospital birth. It wasn't perfect, but I was trying to stay open to whatever happened so that I wouldn't be disappointed if something went wrong and we had to transfer. We are definitely having another homebirth, though I am disappointed that our previous midwife isn't available. I have a much younger and less experienced midwife, though she was expertly trained by my previous midwife, which is comforting. I'm trying to keep my expectations low again, recognizing that no two births are the same, and doing everything I can to be prepared on my end to have a good homebirth. But, every woman should be where she is most comfortable and where she is confident she can get the best care! Do what you feel most confident in, especially if you have certain risk factors.


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## ss834 (Oct 6, 2008)

Does it count if my planned homebirth didn't actually work out? The fact that my midwife had me transfer to the hospital prematurely (basically, because she wasn't convinced I was in labor and didn't want to to show, so told me to get checked out at the hospital) makes me uneasy about something going wrong and having to transfer again. Not that I think homebirth isn't safe, or hospital is much safer, but I think the hospital is definitely safer when you are with docs/midwives who are at least familiar with you and have your records on file vs. showing up as a complete unknown.

I was really dedicated to a homebirth the first time around, and still had a natural birth at the hospital. I doubt I would have done much different in either scenario. I did like the postpartum breastfeeding support at the hospital (even though breastfeeding continued to hurt for 3 mos or so because my son couldn't get his latch right and I had inverted /flat nipples.)

It's really just the issue of transfer for me. I don't want to have to transfer and be an unknown homebirthing mom to the hospital because of the possible prejudices, delay in care, and having to assert myself all over again to strangers. This time I am going with a midwife at the hospital, and either she or one of the other 4 midwives will deliver, and I already know the OB's so I feel a lot better about it. If I chose homebirth in my area there are very few midwives to choose from and none of them have working relationships with local hospitals. My state also requires an OB assessment in first and third trimesters for homebirth, which just adds to the headache because each midwife tends to work with a specific OB, and sometimes they are hours away. It just makes all the possible benefits of homebirth kind of disappear for me.

I would love to see the day when homebirth midwives and hospitals have excellent relations and good plans for streamlining transfers!


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## anilorak13ska (Mar 4, 2014)

My DH was able to take 6 weeks paternity leave. Without that, I don't see how I could have gotten through postpartum, especially those first few days.

The hospital closest to us didn't do pre registrations, so I guess we were going to be strangers there no matter what. Our backup for transfer hospital was much better, in the process of getting baby friendly certified.
I really wonder if the water would've made it easier, especially pushing. Our hot water went out as DH tried to be there for me and fill/heat the pool in between contractions.


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## biofarmer (Nov 12, 2013)

I didn't have a home birth, but had an out of hospital very home like birth center birth. I think I will birth at the hospital with a midwife next time. My labor was extremely long and painful and I think there would have been some more options at the hospital. Also, I have anxiety and I need to birth where I feel very safe and protected and that would probably be at a hospital. My biggest reason would be because I would like an overnight stay. Checking my newborn's vitals on my own was incredibly nerve wracking. I also had some nursing issues that weren't resolved for weeks leading to a lot of pain. I am looking forward to having a significant amount of postpartum support.


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## anilorak13ska (Mar 4, 2014)

I am so encouraged to hear others in the same boat. Prior to giving birth, the only talk I came across about homebirth was how wonderful it was.... or from those who wouldn't dream of it, what a crazy idea it was! lol.

I toured the birthing center where my midwife worked, but their birthing pool didn't have access from at least two sides, which meant they'd have asked me to get out of the pool to actually push baby out. In my case, I never ended up even getting in my rented birth pool at home, but still. The other thing was also that I didn't want to be bothered with driving anywhere - not in labor to the hospital, and not with a brand new baby just hours afterwards. Now I'll take the drive to hospital in labor, since it does come with at least one night's stay. We had to drag baby to the pediatricians two days after birth anyway, so didn't quite get the uninterrupted lying in period I envisioned anyway.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:


> Now I think if DD had been born in a hospital with a lactation consultant on staff, all this could have been avoided.


Mm. It's possible. But it's also likely that you would have been sent home having issues and then been trying to get back in to see someone. I've done several home visits for moms who had their baby in the hospital and were having pain with nursing but couldn't get a call back from the lactation consultant.


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## kungfumoose (Feb 8, 2006)

My first two children were both planned homebirths that ended in transfer and c-sections. There is a chance with both births that hospital care and early intervention could have prevented the need for c-sections. My last two were born in the hospital as VBA2C. Both births were amazing, even though the last was an induction. I'm pretty sure any future births will be in a hospital.


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

I had all of my own children at home. I am glad it worked out each time.

My sister had the same midwife as me, yet she was risked out twice for first, a breech with a short cord, and her second baby was a transverse lie with placenta previa. She had two healthy children by caesarean section. Both were after she had begun labor so her babies were not premature because the doctor's dates were off. My sister said if she ever had a third baby, she would choose the date and do a ECS rather than do an emergency c/sec.


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## BlessedOne (Apr 22, 2008)

I wouldn't have done hb with my first pg. It was uneventful, but I had no clue what to do or expect. In the hospital, they kept asking if I felt "the urge to push"...I had no clue what they meant! They didn't ever get back to me about Lamaze.... so I was seriously clueless! The first half of the pushing stage, I wasn't productively pushing because I had no clue how! I was so concerned about pooping that I wasn't pushing hard enough. Either way, I say all of that to say that if my 1st was a hb I would probably still be pregnant 12 years later..lol . I didn't enjoy my hospital experience, but it did teach me what to expect. 

Also, keep in mind, that not all pregnancies and deliveries are the same. my first, was easy contractions but hard pushing. My second was horrible contractions and SUPER EASY pushing (actually was a relief). My 3rd was hard all around. My 4th was a super short delivery (less than 3 hours start to finish and only 2 hours of contractions)..... but she was hard to push out because cord was around the back of her head and he leg. 5th was easy contractions..i was actually falling asleep..... but his delivery was my second longest and he took some work to get out. I say all that to say that just because one was a certain way doesn't mean they all will be.

Also, now days hospitals only keep you 24 hours unless there are issues. I wouldn't want to have to be in the car during labor as well as travel the next day! I would rather do that all in the comforts of my home. Also, my hospital never offered me any lactation consultation.... but thankfully she latched on great. I guess maybe I had too high of expectations for the hospital. =S


Ps. a lot of issues can be detected via u/s


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## PrimalJoy (Feb 12, 2013)

I didn't plan home births, but I did plan birth center births with my first three deliveries. My first was a posterior baby, very painful labor without progression, and ultimately transfer to hospital due to fetal distress. After an epidural (which actually spaced my contractions into a healthier pattern) and close monitoring, I was able to have a vaginal birth and the baby was fine. That hospital experience wasn't great (13 years ago), more because of how the staff treated us after the birth, and because of separation from my newborn. I was determined to stay out of hospital the next time, and successfully had my next in the birthing center. It was incredibly painful, though, even with water for relief and a lot of support from my attendants. My last one was planned for a birth center, again, but I ended up going to the hospital because of PROM. I pretty much had decided that I wasn't going to try for a natural birth in a hospital (particularly with pitocin), so got an epidural early, and she was born without complication. I had a much better experience with that birth than with my first two, as this was a different hospital that was a lot more respectful of my space and my choices. For this baby, I am planning a hospital birth with a CNM, and I'm going to possibly try for a natural birth (depending on my progress in labor, and what feels right to me at the time).

If my options were the same as they were 13 years ago with my first, I'm not sure what I would do. That hospital was much less respectful of the mother's choices during birth. Where I'm going with this baby works with a lot of midwives. They won't restrict my movement during birth, they won't keep me from eating and drinking, and won't even force an IV if I don't want one. I didn't have those choices in a hospital setting before. And I do have some conflicted feelings about my birth with my first son. His distress was severe (heart rate dropping and staying in the 60's), and while he ended up being overall okay, he does have some learning disabilities and sensory issues. I have no idea if they are related to how he was born, and I don't suppose I'll ever know. Overall, his birth was just very traumatic; painful and scary, and then sad when my baby was kept separate from me. 

Good luck in choosing the birth option that is best for you. There is always a lot to consider; it's not a clear cut answer for most women. Whatever you decide, know that the choice is about what fits you best, and it's okay to choose the hospital if that is what feels right for you this time.


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## sillysapling (Mar 24, 2013)

I don't think I responded to this already. I accidentally ate some gluten and my brain's in a fog, so sorry if I missed my post...

I had a really bad homebirth experience, thanks to a midwife with an attitude problem. She was awful. She lied about how far along I was on the chart (or just didn't bother listening), drove an hour away while I was in active labor when she should have been coming over, and when she finally showed up she told me not to listen to my body and passed out. I was having a small urge to push, which was just my body trying to rearrange kiddo who, in his eagerness to be born, managed to block the birth canal- if hse'd sat through a push with me, she'd have realized that. Instead, she said "don't push" and left it at that, prompting me to spend hours fighting what my body naturally needed to do. Worst advice I'd ever gotten. If hte second midwife, who was AMAZING, hadn't shown up- I surely would have needed a c-section. She really was amazing, I cannot say enough good things about her, if hse had been the primary midwife that day my experience would have been lightyears different, kiddo probably would have been born over 6 hours earlier- that's how long I'd stalled.

Unfortunately, midwife A was in charge. After the baby came, no one helped me into a better position so I could hold my baby comfortably (instead- midwife A pulled the chord, which I later found out can cause hemorraging- I blame it for the amount of blood I lost, they also didn't test me for iron levels or anything else, even though I was likely anemic). I wasn't allowed to breastfeed because they couldn't be bothered figuring out how to use the at-breast supplementer (even though they'd known that was my intention for months) and instead we had to use a cup to feed our baby. The baby was taken out of the room, my partner went with him, and so I was separated from my baby for what felt like an eternity not long after he was born- exactly what I didn't want.

It was a really awful, traumatic experience. I don't know what to do next time, it's really freaked me out that a healthcare provider can spend 9 months agreeing with you and sounding like she respects your wishes and, at your most vulnerable, basically abandon you. How can you trust any OBGYN, nurse, or midwife after that?

Although not to the same degree, something akin could easily have happened in a hospital as well. This isn't a homebirth problem, it's a "healthcare providers with bad attitudes" problem.

Oddly, the pain wasn't a big deal. I wouldn't have felt nearly as terrified, and I wouldn't have been as exhausted, if not for the midwife, and the memory of the pain hasn't lingered with me. I'm terrified of giving birth again, but it's not because of the pain at all. I think it's because I had undiagnosed fibro, so I'm used to always being in pain. Also, now that I've been diagnosed and can manage my condition, I'm really hoping next time will be easier.

I don't know what to do next time. I have no faith in my ability to vaginally birth in a hospital, I just can't relax an after what happened this time I know that I'll just stall big time, so if I go hospital I'd honestly rather just plan to do a c-section rather than risk spending hours or even days in labor and THEN have to do an emergency c-section. Maybe a birthing center will be better, but I don't know. We'll see. There is risk in home birth, I know that, and that risk is not worth it if it's going to just be traumatic.



ninabear said:


> I felt like I was wasting their time especially when my labor stalled.


This so much. My midwife made it really bad because she actually acted like I was wasting her time, but this was definitely a problem for me as well. I don't know if a better midwife would have put me more at ease with it or not.


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## BlessedOne (Apr 22, 2008)

Just food for thought-
It sounds like your main issue was with the medical persons. If you felt comfortable with it, you should look into UC. It sounds like you and your body know what to do. But uc is not for everyone....the person has to feel comfortable and confident in their decision. =) I went to uc on my third birth after one bad hospital experience and one decently good birthing center experience.


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## sillysapling (Mar 24, 2013)

Thanks for the suggestion. We are considering it, we considered it with the first but we weren't comfortable. I'm not sure if it would have been better if we'd done it on our own- kiddo came 2 weeks early at a bad time and it really freaked me out. A lot will depend on the situation. If we have someone who's willing to be a support person for our first, how far we live from a hospital, what the laws in the state are and how difficult it'll be to get a birth certificate (I know some people don't want one, but we do), how the pregnancy goes, how I feel when labor starts, etc. 

I just wish I could feel confident about an assisted option. There's a lot of reasons that UC may not feel good or even be safe next time, I really hope I can find a way to be comfortable with an assisted option just in case.


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## BlessedOne (Apr 22, 2008)

Yes, if I had risk issues, I probably wouldn't UC...but that is just me. But thankfully, all of my pregnancies and deliveries have been pretty much uneventful. The nice thing is that every midwife is different, so hopefully you can find one that is right for you. I personally don't have a lot of options were I am at. I interviewed my two options and neither met my criteria...thus I UC. =)


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## sillysapling (Mar 24, 2013)

Yeah, in the state I gave birth in (CT) that group of midwives was the only option. I couldn't choose who would attend the birth, it was just whoever was on-call that day. It makes me not want to live in that state again. I'm not sure where we'll be living when we're ready to have another or what the options are, but I hope we'll be able to live somewhere with good options. 

I also really hope we can get an insurance that'll cover it if we do want to do a homebirth again, we got really lucky last time that it did!


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## BlessedOne (Apr 22, 2008)

I don't know about other states, but my state is fairly easy to get a birth certificate in. First the baby has to have an ss card...which is the more in depth process....but still relatively simple. Here I just have to contact vital records and get the forms to fill out for live birth, get them notarized and sent back in. Providing I filled them out right....(which is the hardest part..lol) they eventually send me an ss card (takes about 4-8 weeks) and then I can take that to the county (of child's birth) health dept. and have them print off an official copy of the birth certificate. I think it cost 10-15 dollars, if I remember correctly.


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## Viola P (Sep 14, 2013)

sillysapling said:


> I don't think I responded to this already. I accidentally ate some gluten and my brain's in a fog, so sorry if I missed my post...
> 
> I had a really bad homebirth experience, thanks to a midwife with an attitude problem. She was awful. She lied about how far along I was on the chart (or just didn't bother listening), drove an hour away while I was in active labor when she should have been coming over, and when she finally showed up she told me not to listen to my body and passed out. I was having a small urge to push, which was just my body trying to rearrange kiddo who, in his eagerness to be born, managed to block the birth canal- if hse'd sat through a push with me, she'd have realized that. Instead, she said "don't push" and left it at that, prompting me to spend hours fighting what my body naturally needed to do. Worst advice I'd ever gotten. If hte second midwife, who was AMAZING, hadn't shown up- I surely would have needed a c-section. She really was amazing, I cannot say enough good things about her, if hse had been the primary midwife that day my experience would have been lightyears different, kiddo probably would have been born over 6 hours earlier- that's how long I'd stalled.
> 
> ...


I also has an Awful traumatic 1st birth with a care provider who sounds a lot like yours. She didn't want to wait at all and they have this "protocol" (rule) that if you don't dialate 1 cm per hour then you're labelled "failure to progress" and given a c-section. So I didn't dialate for a full hour and she spent the next several hours telling me my body couldn't do it, "some times nature just needs a little help", and getting increasingly impatient with my refusal to have an "emergency" c-section. Eventually she was down right mean and abusive. Needles to say she was totally shocked when I dilated fully and at moment I felt so bad for all he women who had undergone major abdominal surrey with all the lasting implications - for *nothing*. She spent the 9 months agreeing with me too then totally betrayed me when I was at my most vulnerable so i totally get what you're saying. For my second I decided I would wait as long as possible to call the mw for my hb and I called eventually but it took her 40 minuets to arrive and by the baby was 8 minutes old. The UC was so amazing, especially not being checked at all and monitored, it was lovely.

Best of luck to all


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## sillysapling (Mar 24, 2013)

You should be able to get the birth certificate without the SS#, as you aren't required to have a SSN to be a US citizen. Showing your ID to prove you're the parents should be enough. I know that people use getting the SSN as proof that the birth certificate has been processed, though.

In CT, you needed to apply for it within 10 days and could apply for the SSN at the same time if you wanted (I believe you can apply for SSN at the same time in every state, because the federal government says you can). Which the midwives _didn't_- part of why I'm so freaked out about doing a homebirth again and am worried about problems with a UC! I spent a *month *fighting them, working with my town hall (who were fortunately very sympathetic towards me), to get the paperwork for my baby's birth certificate, he almost ended up without insurance thanks to them! Once I handed in the paperwork, I got the birth certificate that day- which may have been because they got the paperwork 3 weeks late, but I don't think so- but spending the first month of your baby's life stressing out and having to fight to get paperwork you need was _not_ fun.

(They were also supposed to apply for his insurance within _5 days_ by state mandate, they didn't bother doing so and wouldn't fill out whatever paperwork they were supposed to, so I had to wait to get the birth certificate, _then_ I had to use it to apply to get him on insurance. They kept telling me that it took weeks longer to get things than it really did, apparently when they actually do apply for the insurance it takes people a month to get the insurance card. It took less than a week. Apparently when they send out to get the birth certificate sorted out, it takes months, it took me, again, _a day_. I am incredibly unimpressed with this business, and I didn't find out about any of these problems until _after_ the baby was born, there wasn't really any way to know all of this would have happened, you can see why I don't want to trust homebirth.)


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## BlessedOne (Apr 22, 2008)

I understand. The nice things is that it sounds like you know what to do on the paperwork side of things for the area you live in. Although, from what I have read, it varies by state (which is so strange). Honestly it has even changed a little between each of my births. Sometimes I would have to send in a written letter giving baby stats and asking for the proper forms to fill out and sometimes I could just call. I cant remember for certain off the top of my head, but I believe one time I had to send a copy of my drivers license ....but I am not positive...that may have been a different thing. I don't believe I had to do that with my last child.....and I just got his done a year ago even though he is now 2. We don't have a limit on when it has to be done.....but of course you cant claim them on taxes if they are not a registered citizen. 
For my second son, he was born in a different state than we live. The midwives did the ss card stuff for me (thankfully) but of course the birth certificate was up to me. But I had to get it from the state that he was born in......I *think* that was the time I had to send a copy of my drivers license...as well as fill out a form. 
Around here even at the hospitals, they don't do official birth certificates. They only send in ss card info and then once you get the card, then you can get a birth certificate printed from the county health dept. So around here the only difference (paper work wise) between homebirth and hospital birth is who fills out the ss card form.


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

RE: birth certificates and home births.

A friend of mine, ba-a-aa-ck in the military draft era of the 1960s had her baby at home in Massachusetts while attending Harvard as a married student, (her husband was at MIT.) She did not register her son's birth because she did not want him drafted in some future war. Then she finally realized she may not be able to register him for school nor could he get a driver's license or a passport when the time came, so she decided to register his birth. She learned that had she waited for a bit more, she would have had to go to her Congressman and it would have taken an Act of Congress to give her son a birth certificate. Frankly, I think that would have been cool, but she registered the birth with the local authorities in Massachusetts.


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## BlessedOne (Apr 22, 2008)

I thought about not registering my last child to avoid having to pay insurance on yet another person (thanks Obama)....also kind of scared of how controlling the govt has been getting. I liked the idea of him not being under that.......................but of course, he would basically be up a creek without a paddle for the rest of his life.....so I went ahead and registered him. 

PS I don't want this post to spur a political debate


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

My mother in law had a social security number but no birth certificate. When she approached retirement age, she had to have two persons who knew her file sworn, notarized affidavits stating where and when she was born in order to collect her SSA benefits. So there are ways to prove who you are, but it is easier with a birth certificate.


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## junipermuse (Nov 1, 2006)

Just thought I'd add my two cents, as someone who has had one kid in a hospital, and one kid at home. First off I think it's likely that first births kind of suck for a lot of people, whether at home or in the hospital. You're scared because everynthing is new. First births usually take much longer (24 hours is average I believe) so of course you are more tired and in pain for a longer period. So with that in mind I will say I would take my home birth over my hospital birth any day of the week. First off, I did get an epidural and it was not great. It only worked (provided pain relief) on half my body, so I still had to deal with a lot of pain. However i couldnt move my legs at all, so finding more comfortable position was impossible. I also hated the feeling of helplessness from being tied to a bed. The nurses repeatedly told my husband I would probably need a c-section for failure to progress, despite the fact that I was only in labor for 15 hours total and that isn't long for a first birth. I also was given an episiotomy which i dont think was neccessarry but left me in so much pain it hurt to sit up and hold my baby. I had asked that dd be bathed in the hopital room with me so we wouldnt have to be seperated, but they were short on nurses because of c-section so i they took her down to nursery. i sent dh with her, and so i was left all alone, scared, hungry, and in pain. After dd was born I repeatedly asked to see the lactation consultant, but in the three days we were there she never came. Not once. I did end up having some troubles with breast feeding in the beginning and I ended up having to pay out of pocket to see a private lactation consultant. I also felt like the support from the hospital staff after the birth was horrible. My baby wouldn't sleep in the bassinet, but those stupid hospital beds are so small you can't cosleep, so either I or my husband had to be awake at all times to safely hold her so she would sleep. My only option would have been to send her to nursery, but I didn't want her out of my or dh's sight. We were much more exhausted after returning from the hospital with her than we were after having ds at home. 

On the other hand at home for the second birth, things were much easier. I had him in the pool and I had a doula present and for the most part the pain was very manageable. I think for me being in my own house and in control was much preferable than being tethered to the hospital bed. An hour before ds was born I was laughing in the kitchen making tea for everybody. Transition was the worst part and because I went from 5cm to 10 cm in like 30 minutes I got a little bit scared because I thought I might have hours left to go at that level of intensity. Afterwards I was bundled up in my own clothes, in my own king-size bed where I watched the midwives clean the baby and give him his little check up. Then the baby and I were able to snuggl in bed and sleep. A few hours later I was up and moving around (despite having gotten stitches for a tear along the line of the old episiotomy) with relative ease. My mom was staying with us for the week so we did have help with dd, but I felt lucky that we didn't have to be away from her during this time, I think it made a much easier transition for her.

Clearly I preferred my homebirth over my hospital birth, but specifically regarding advantages that should have been in the hospitals favor such as pain relief and an onstaff lactation consultant, I feel like the hospital birth wasn't able to live up to expectations.


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## carnelianlight (Mar 7, 2014)

Oh my goodness, sounds like you had a painful experience. Sad all of that happened. Wish you healing and joyous ways forward. 

I had a home birth for my first about 5 weeks ago and it was perfect. I live in a city VERY well served by numerous happy, respected midwives and ancillary care providers including prenatal yoga teachers, therapists, chiropractors, acupuncturists, educators, doulas, lactation consultants, and holistic doctors if you need them. It seems like there is an unofficial core of 10-15 midwives whose commitment and sense of community creates fairly stringent and rigorous standards of care. 
I had zero illusions about hospital birthing due to my extensive experience in/with the medical system. Insurance didn't pay, but I'd saved up money to pay for everything out of pocket and to take time off for self care and research. There were no pregnancy-related complications I couldn't fix. I was overprepared and ready to birth on my own, if need be - low-risk, lucky, and hardworking. Understandable if not everyone has this experience.


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## BlessedOne (Apr 22, 2008)

I agree with juniper....I think a lot of it comes down to being the first birth. As said previously, I don't think I could have comfortably had my first at home.....so had I done that, I would probably be in the same situation of not ever wanting to homebirth again.


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

I had my first at home. But then my mom had all of us, except for one, at home, so it seemed my natural to me. I paid out of pocket for it. I had no insurance to cover maternity services. 

When I had my first at home it seemed very normal to have birth at home. Yes, there was lots of pain and it took a long time because the baby was posterior and had shoulder dystocia, but when the birth was completed, the pain was over. Life went on. No stitches, breastfeeding took off well, I walked to the shower, was able to use the toilet unassisted, there was food I prepared in the refrigerator to eat, and our lives began together with no problems. I planted the placenta the next day with a rose bush over it. Life was grand and a family began life together.

All my children were born at home, and I am happy and grateful for that.


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## Viola P (Sep 14, 2013)

I think writing it off to being the first Birth ignores that many women are treated very poorly and that's why they have a bad birth experience. Yes my first birth was very long and with an OP baby but that doesn't change that I was bullied and pressured into getting an unnecessary cesarean section because the medical staff didn't want to wait. The fact is that there are protocols in place that make it impossible for women to exercise their autonomy and this lack of autonomy is very traumatic and troubling for many women. And it should be. We should all recognize that it's not okay to batter and abuse women in labour, first birth or not. I know this probably isn't what was meant but I can't ignore that there are systemic issues of abuse in l&d wards and the role that this plays in women's own views of their birth experience. 

Also, note that the OP hadn't yet had her hospital birth so it's possible that once she has had both shed prefer the hb. I know for me I accepted with my second that there is no such thing thing as pain-free childbirth. 

With my 2nd I was able to get on with life as apple juice described, but with my first I went through months of PTSD and my entire life was affected, and that was *not* because it was the first birth it was because I was abused and battered in the hospital.


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

I am sorry that you were abused in the hospital, Viola P. I am also sorry that you suffered PTSD. I hope you are better.

I am aware that women can be abused in a homebirth also. During pregnancy, labor, delivery, and in the postpartum period women are vulnerable to so much emotion and turmoil that we should recognize that all women need support - should be self-evident, yet hospital protocol ignores this fact for their own convenience and some homebirth midwives also. This is a very sad commentary on our culture and the priorities we set for ourselves. 

32 yrs ago I attended a talk by Suzanne Arms, the author of Immaculate Deception, 1973. She said that a woman's first child is just as important as any child a woman has; she stated that she did not understand why a woman would go to the hospital for her first delivery, but I can understand it because of the "fear of birth" culture we have in this society. 

Suzanne Arms was trying to make a point, and for me that point is well taken, but I know why so many women are just scared to death and go to the hospital for their first birth - "in case something happens". I have known of many well-to-do young women who simply schedule an elective surgical delivery because they believe that they will have one any way and do not want to face the trauma of an emergency surgical delivery.


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## Viola P (Sep 14, 2013)

"During pregnancy, labor, delivery, and in the postpartum period women are vulnerable to so much emotion and turmoil that we should recognize that all women need support - should be self-evident, yet hospital protocol ignores this fact for their own convenience"

Yes but in my case it was them actually battering me with medicine and fetal monitoring belts and birth raping me. I don't think it was anything about me (my need for support) but that they normalize and rationalize this kind of violence against women. 

I was pressured for 9 hours to get an "emergency" c-section but ds was born by forceps. To me there was never an emergency, other than at the end but they created that. There wasn't a 9+ hour emergency. 

My second was UC and was awsome (planned hb but mw arrived after the birth).


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

I am sorry I misunderstood your post. I am very happy for you and your home birth. I hope you use that empowering feeling for other aspects of your life, as I have. It works!


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## Viola P (Sep 14, 2013)

applejuice said:


> I am sorry I misunderstood your post. I am very happy for you and your home birth. I hope you use that empowering feeling for other aspects of your life, as I have. It works!


It's amazing how powerful a positive birth experience can be. I feel so lucky for how my second went, it was absolutely perfect. It also did so much to heal the first.


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## Ratchet (Mar 24, 2011)

My first pregnancy I was planning a home birth which didn't happen due to DD being very premature. This pregnancy I'm seeing an OB and planning a hospital birth. For me, with DD the labor/ birth was a non-issue, as in, it was fast, physically easy. I am not afraid of birth, I live in an area with reasonable providers, I am exceptionally knowledgable about it as I work in this field. I don't think it matters where I give birth, and I've heard other people (moms and providers) around here say that too- you give birth in your 'bubble.' The physical space isn't the whole issue. If that's your deal too (which it is NOT for many women), then it comes down to the perks, risks, etc- like, the option of an epidural or the screening/monitoring available (ultrasounds, etc).

I will say I am underwhelmed by prenatal care. With the HB midwife, they offered acupuncture and papaya enzymes for the terrible vomiting, which didn't work. With the OB, I got Pepcid and Zofran, which worked marginally better. Neither made me feel all that much better from a coping perspective, nor offered any extensive and magical treatments. I see the OB a lot more often due to having multiple ultrasounds to look for warnings of preterm labor, which I like, but I didn't feel particularly close to either practice. I think prenatal care just isn't as much 'fun' as I would like it to be. 

OP, there is nothing magical about prenatal providers. There is evil to be avoided, for sure, but the magic of pregnancy and birth doesn't come from a particular location. For me I care more about my husband and friends' role in all this than my provider or birth site. 

I'll let you know if things change after this birth- and depending on how this goes, if I had a third, I'd consider a home birth for that one.


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## BlessedOne (Apr 22, 2008)

Oh yes, I agree that hospitals many times bully the lady. I had that same experience with my first birth. They forced me into getting my water broke (in order to speed things up because they supposedly needed to "fit me in" <(their words)). I hated that MY doctor wasn't present at most of the birth (only last 18 minutes) and I had to deal with the dr that was on duty....which I didn't know.....and found out quickly that I didn't like either. Once my dr was there, he did an episiotomy without my approval and used a vac...which left a mark on my babies head. I hated the horrible attitudes of the nurses and first dr. They wouldn't let me eat while in labor...so I was without food for almost 24 hrs. I could go on and on about how I hated my hospital birth....and honestly, I don't think I would have liked a hospital birth at any of my other births either. But I do know that with me, I would have been clueless of how to birth if I hadn't of had the hospital experience first. Now yes, the experience not only taught me the "to dos" but also not to dos. I am glad I have that experience to compare my other births to. I am one of the few ladies that actually have tried pretty much every option of birth (hospital, birthing center, homebirth)! 
I just cant imagine me doing a homebirth with my first birth......but everyone is different. =) I am SUPER glad that I took that first step and now have had 3 homebirths and planning my 4th. =)


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

> With the HB midwife, they offered acupuncture and papaya enzymes for the terrible vomiting, which didn't work.


ginger or ginger ale?

Vitamin B6, pyrodoxine hydrocholoride works also; it helps with absorbing the protein in your food and regulating your blood sugar - it was a main ingredient in bendectin, an anti-emetic drug for hyperemesis gravidarum, a drug that was taken off the market.


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## Bracha04 (Jul 5, 2013)

I have had four hospital births, then one homebirth. The factors that I feel were the most important in shaping my birth experience whether in home or hospital were the location and regulations, care provider, hospital staff (very random), doula support (I didn't know about this until #5 ), education and preparation (reading and birth class).

Birth has been meaningful and rewarding when I felt safe, nurtured and respected by those around me. I had birth trauma when procedures were done without permission/explanation. I felt violated and abused at my fourth birth. I finally began researching my options after this and found that there were more than I had thought. It took me four births to seriously research things. Many individuals will research a new home or car more than birth specifications. This had been me. I recommend to all pregnant women that they spend a lot of time researching and considering their options (I am a doula now too). This effort pays off.

On my personal experience with hospitals vs. homebirth in general: I felt annoyed by the lack of efficiency, kindness, flexibility and availability of staff at some hospitals. (this is why I say to choose carefully) Also, my four epidurals felt like playing Russian roulette because there are common side effects. I experienced my blood pressure dropping and ringing in my ear for one month post birth. These side effects were never explained and the surprise was more than stressful. More importantly, I felt completely trapped and helpless. I hated being numb. Also, the IV opened up pandora's box and they placed all kinds of bags on there, often without asking. I felt that there was so much pressure to conform to policy when it was not specifically needed for me, IV/Baby separation/long intake questionnaires that were torture to answer/separation from kids when we wanted them to meet their new sibling. For me personally, these interventions introduced risk into my birth each time and actually made the contractions more painful. It felt like the control was taken from me and I was an "inconvenience" if I said no or wanted to hold my baby longer. There were people changing the trash or taking my blood at random times in my room, like 2:00am and 4:00am. Sleeping was impossible. I felt like a prisoner the whole time and tortured with sleep deprivation and lack of control over my body and baby. In contrast, two births of those four were attended by an amazing doctor and there were some good and kind nurses, but they were not very available throughout my labor and postpartum. They only spent small amounts of time with me and this could not balance the other negative aspects of the experience.

My home birth was completely opposite. I was able to make sure that my location and birth team were in line with my desires. I took a Hypnobirthing class and then read The Bradley Method among tons of other helpful materials and had an amazing midwife & doula to assist me. I also felt like you did, that it was difficult having people come into my space, but that ended up being a small issue for me in comparison to my invasive hospital births and because they brought love and kindness. It was the opposite of all that happened to me before, thankfully, and I was so grateful for their gentle care. I feel like the location, education and care providers made all the difference in the experience for me. Home is what worked best for me personally, but hospital is best in some cases and could be a good experience with careful planning.

In summary, the research and carefully selected birth team were very helpful in creating the optimal environment for me. If the hospital is appealing to you, then research carefully because each hospital/doctor/midwife/doula will vary significantly in practice and personality. If the hospital were best for me then I would be sure to hire an experienced doula for continuous labor support and to help me in researching my options and find which hospital would best fit my desires for birth. An experienced doula may be able to offer insight and information into the local hospitals and providers that would fit my needs. I would hire a postpartum doula to come help postpartum and I would take an evidence based birth class that is not hospital or provider affiliated. This type of class (chosen carefully) usually offers thought provoking and unbiased information as well as tools for birth.

I am sorry if I am redundant if you are already aware of these things or if they are not relevant to your situation. I hope that you find what you are looking for from your birth experience!


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## Ratchet (Mar 24, 2011)

I did ginger capsules and chews, b6, doxylamine/ (the other ingredient in Benedictine), Benadryl, meclizine, sea bands in addition to the acupuncture and papaya enzymes they advised. And of course all the diet advice (small frequent meals, blah blah blah). Zero help. Pepcid that pregnancy helped a wee bit, but only maybe. I think I need to focus on h. Pylori in the future (but that's a different thread...) I guess sometimes you just gotta suck it up and spend 4 months miserable. :crap. (Heehee I was hopeful there was a puking smilie but instead found one called "crap")


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## junipermuse (Nov 1, 2006)

Viola P said:


> I think writing it off to being the first Birth ignores that many women are treated very poorly and that's why they have a bad birth experience.


I want to make it clear that I wasn't implying that a bad birth experience is only due to it being the first time. I was just trying to let my biases be known before stating my preference for my homebirth. I know that I loved my homebirth, it was a really healing experience for me emotionally, as a woman and as a mother. But I also know that had both my births been at home with the same wonderful doula and midwife, I may have still preferred my second birth because it likely would have been faster and less scary, by virtue of being the second baby. If I had never had a hospital birth though I may not have known how bad an experience it could be, and perhaps I would have longed for the promise of a pain free birth, that a hospital offers. But I know now that that is a promise that the hospital can't always make good on, and without the pain relief, there is very little appeal in being in a hospital for me.


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## crazyms (Jan 8, 2010)

I agree that while I think a home birth is a beautiful thing the hospital birth really depends on your personal hospital and provider. I had my first in the hospital just because I didn't realize there was another option. My 2nd we started out planning a hb with midwife but early pregnancy bleeding and bedrest then issues with getting his heartbeat with a doppler led us to just go with the ob & hospital. He ended up a forceps delivery but I feel that was because of the evil witch doctor that was on call. My 3rd I developed hypertension so again when with the ob/hospital and her delivery was fine despite the hypertension. My ob and nurses in l&d at my hospital are amazing and very concerned with mom's wellbeing and wishes. We even had a lactation specialist on call that is amazing. The only trouble I ever had really was the witch doctor that delivered my son and ended up on call the weekend after I gave birth to my 3rd. She was hateful and tortured me both times I had to deal with her to the point of the nurses banning her from my room with my 3rd because she was causing so much tension. If it wasn't for that one doctor I don't think I'd have ever had any issues with birthing in the hospital. A doula would have been very helpful in keeping med-free also. I really think a beautiful birth can happen anywhere with the right support and birth team. I never got the birth of my dreams but I did get beautiful nursing relationships thanks to a great breastfeeding support team and that honestly was the most important thing to me.


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## Viola P (Sep 14, 2013)

"If I had never had a hospital birth though I may not have known how bad an experience it could be, and perhaps I would have longed for the promise of a pain free birth, that a hospital offers. But I know now that that is a promise that the hospital can't always make good on, and without the pain relief, there is very little appeal in being in a hospital for me."

Totally! For me for the second one I had lost all pretense that there was some way to have a pain free childbirth. I knew it would be painful, and the first was mich more painful bc baby was OP and the monster pit contraxtions and them refusing me pain meds.


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## sillysapling (Mar 24, 2013)

The only reason that being a first birth made it worse was that I didn't know what I was doing- but being treated so badly would be a problem anywhere. I also SERIOUSLY disagree that people who only do home birth can't know how bad it is. After seeing a few people who lost a baby that would have survived had they been at the hospital, I think it could be the other way around. Although home birth can be truly wonderful, when things go wrong- the effects are far more devastating than in the hospital.

I still support home birth- but in the US we do not have adequate safety standards at all.


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## Viola P (Sep 14, 2013)

sillysapling said:


> I still support home birth- but in the US we do not have adequate safety standards at all.


Maybe the standards in the us need to be increased universally as it has the worst (I think) record for maternal/baby mortality in the developed world, a very low hb rate, and spends the most money. In the Netherlands where they spend far less money and hb is very common the outcomes are far better, both in and out of hospital.

It's not just hb that has how standards, it's the hospitals too.


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## Viola P (Sep 14, 2013)

Here's the report deadly delivery that talks about the hospital approach to maternity care in the us and the awful outcomes

http://www.amnestyusa.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/deadlydelivery.pdf

Personally I feel safer at home, and while it's true that for those women who loose a baby that would have survived if they were at a hositpal, there are also those women who lose babies or are injured themselves because of the hospital.


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## Viola P (Sep 14, 2013)

Here is a lovely quote from the first page of the report: "The total amount spent on health care in the USA is greater than in any other country in the world.1 Hospitalization related to pregnancy and childbirth costs some US$86 billion a year; the highest hospitalization costs of any area of medicine.2 Despite this, women in the USA have a greater lifetime risk of dying of pregnancy-related complications than women in 40 other countries. For example, the likelihood of a woman dying in childbirth in the USA is five times greater than in Greece, four times greater than in Germany, and three times greater than in Spain.3 More than two women die every day in the USA from pregnancy-related causes.4 Maternal deaths are only the tip of the iceberg. Severe complications that result in a woman nearly dying, known as a “near miss”, increased by 25 per cent between 1998 and 2005. During 2004 and 2005, 68,433 women nearly died in childbirth in the USA."

I think we need to start having serious discussions about the state or maternity care *in hospitals* in the US and stop falling back on "yeah but dead babies" and refusing to look at it at all. Both hb and hospital birth need major improvements, thy aren't mutually exclusive; we need a health care system that offers excellent care regardless of where a woman chooses to birth.

ETA:

Here's another lovely article looking at the numbers in the us, all of which begs the question of why we are so anxious to rush to the hospital

http://m.aljazeera.com/story/201438161633539780


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## sillysapling (Mar 24, 2013)

Hospital birth being unsafe doesn't make homebirth any safer. All that means is that we need to focus on making birth safer everywhere. Babies and women are dying during childbirth in this country_ both _at home and at the hospital at an alarming rate far higher than in any other developed country. If home birth were the answer, it'd be notably safer- but no study has shown that. Giving birth in this country is dangerous no matter where you do it and that's a big damn problem that needs to be fixed.


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## Viola P (Sep 14, 2013)

sillysapling said:


> Hospital birth being unsafe doesn't make homebirth any safer. All that means is that we need to focus on making birth safer everywhere. Babies and women are dying during childbirth in this country_ both _at home and at the hospital at an alarming rate far higher than in any other developed country. If home birth were the answer, it'd be notably safer- but no study has shown that. Giving birth in this country is dangerous no matter where you do it and that's a big damn problem that needs to be fixed.


Totally!

Can we agree that giving birth at home in the Netherlands is significantly safer than giving birth in a US hospital then?

I think we need a spinoff thread


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

Home birth is safer in that it prevents the dangers of the hospital birth experience, such as the required IV, monitors, bedrest, repeated exams, and germs you can get nowhere else in town. 

In other words, unless a woman needs the IV, monitor, bedrest, repeated exams, then it is probably better to stay home with an experience attendant. I did that and it worked for me and many other women. 

My body, my choice. 

In the Netherlands, they have their problems also. And we have ours. Is 100% hospitalization of all laboring women the answer to all problems in labor and delivery?


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## Viola P (Sep 14, 2013)

applejuice said:


> Home birth is safer in that it prevents the dangers of the hospital birth experience, such as the required IV, monitors, bedrest, repeated exams, and germs you can get nowhere else in town.
> 
> In other words, unless a woman needs the IV, monitor, bedrest, repeated exams, then it is probably better to stay home with an experience attendant. I did that and it worked for me and many other women.
> 
> ...


Yes my first was a horrible hospital birth where I was tortured for a day and a half with forced medication, starvation, etc... AND ds and I were both sick afterwards (I threw up every day for 10 days and finally went to ER and was given 3 bags of fluids and treated for dehydration, ds cried nonstop for days so I'm assuming he was hurting too). In contrast my second was unassisted and had no violence and no sickness afterwards. I felt WAY safer at home with the second than I did in the hospital with my first, and the outcome was far better ( I wasn't sick, dd was calm and peaceful and my milk was prompt and plentiful).

I just don't understand why so many women are reticent to discuss the serious problems with hospital birth.


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## Ratchet (Mar 24, 2011)

And- this is maybe a topic for another day/forum/thread, but I imagine a uge component of our maternal death rates have more to so with the lack of general social support and medical care. Living in poverty (and your race) is a bigger risk factor for death than where you birth. I'm sure Ina May Gaskin would agree.


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## Viola P (Sep 14, 2013)

Ratchet said:


> And- this is maybe a topic for another day/forum/thread, but I imagine a uge component of our maternal death rates have more to so with the lack of general social support and medical care. Living in poverty (and your race) is a bigger risk factor for death than where you birth. I'm sure Ina May Gaskin would agree.


That's addressed in both the aljezeera article and the amnesty report. They both conclude that that's a significant part of it but even the rate of death for privileged women who have access is higher than in 25 other developed countries. The question ultimately seems to be whether it's a case of too much of a "good" thing.


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## JoseyLyn (Feb 20, 2014)

In my homebirth experience my midwife did not live up to expectations. The first and foremost problem was that we couldn't get ahold of her when I went into labor. So that was worrying me during my intense & quickly progressing labor. She finally showed up & was there for 2 hrs before I had my DS2 & acted like it was no biggie. To some that would be fine, but for my first HB I wanted her there. Then afterwards she was snapping at me for not having things prepared that I had tried numerous times to ask her about & she kept telling me we would go over it when the birth was closer. I don't feel any option other than home is right for us, so we will have to choose from one of the other 2 midwives (not covered by insurance) in our area.


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

Do you think a doctor would have shown up two hours before your delivery in the hospital and stayed with you? 

Some do, but it is unusual. And the hospital procedures certainly do not require it. 

The machines do that work for them.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

applejuice said:


> Do you think a doctor would have shown up two hours before your delivery in the hospital and stayed with you?
> 
> Some do, but it is unusual.


My doctor was there for both of my deliveries from start to finish, same for my sisters.

But I understood her point - she hired her midwife to be there for her birth from start to finish and her midwife let her down. In the hospital she would have had nurses there so she wasn't alone during what she felt were scary moments.

JoseyLyn I hope you find that one of the other midwives in your area is a better fit - although it's sad that you have to pay out of pocket


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

Is this still the Homebirth forum or did I make a left turn at the wrong intersection?


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## BlessedOne (Apr 22, 2008)

100% homebirther here....although I will say that I actually UC.....we don't have a lot of midwife options here and I didn't approve of the two I interviewed....one (only licensed in the area) had the same protocols as the docs...which I was trying to get away from ....the other (lay) was a nut case that kind of scared me. o~0..............but at least she was hands off ....but she insisted that dh deliver baby....but neither dh or I wanted that....her philosophy was that he helped put it in and he should help get it out...she didn't even care that that wasn't what either of us wanted!


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

> but she insisted that dh deliver baby.


LOL

I had the same and very fine midwife each time.

My midwife told me to deliver my own the second time around. UGH. It was a long, difficult, very painful delivery which involved a large posterior, deflexed head, tilted (asynclitism?) with horrible, excruciating back labor, but I got him out after hours of pushing. He was a very peaceful child. And I did pull him out. He was winking at me. It was sweet. My husband was crying - he had a son!

I am glad for the expertise of my midwife at that delivery. I needed her. I am glad she was there.

I was up and around as soon as he was delivered, no stitches. My husband watched him while I rode my bicycle the next day.

He is 31 today. Still has that large head and he sleeps with it tilted up.


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## Ratchet (Mar 24, 2011)

Applejuice- the topic is home birth not living up to expectations, so I think there is supposed to be some negative experiences here.


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

I thought this forum was for support of homebirth. I can read the title of the thread and comprehend it. Why am I reading posts praising a doctor at a hospital birth? If a homebirth does not live up to expectations, is the answer to UC or go to the hospital? There are other forums for that here on MDC.



> The Homebirth forum is for parents and parents-to-be to learn more about homebirth, share their personal experiences, get support to have a safe homebirth, or discuss their extenuating circumstances to help them make a decision about birthing at home. Posts made purely for the purpose of debate and criticism of homebirth are not appropriate. Topics of concern, including discussion of the risks and instances wherein homebirth might not be a good choice for a particular pregnancy or presentation may be examined and discussed critically by members who post to this forum regularly as supporters and advocates of homebirth.
> Please see our forum Disclaimer to ensure that your posts neither seek nor give medical advice.
> - See more at: http://www.mothering.com/articles/homebirth-forum-guidelines/#sthash.bLPOAyFK.dpuf -


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## Usually Curious (Apr 26, 2006)

applejuice said:


> I thought this forum was for support of homebirth. I can read the title of the thread and comprehend it. Why am I reading posts praising a doctor at a hospital birth? If a homebirth does not live up to expectations, is the answer to UC or go to the hospital? There are other forums for that here on MDC.


I've had one birthing center birth, one homebirth, one hospital birth, three homebirths, and one hospital birth. I'm planning another hospital birth in November.

I must say that a satisfying homebirth depends greatly upon the midwife. My midwife in TX was amazing. My sixth birth was with a midwife in MO and it was a disaster. She and her assistant literally pulled my uterus out! She was incredibly medically minded and stressed me out about every little thing. It was an incredibly traumatic experience and took months to recover from. I will never use another midwife and homebirth in this state.

With my seventh pregnancy I sought out an OB. He was amazing, so relaxed and hands off. My hospital experience was fairly uneventful. The nurses and pedis pretty much left me alone because they felt I was experienced and knew my own mind (no vaxing, etc.). I took huge bags of candy and gave one to each nurses' station - I'm sure that helped.

I'm using the same OB this time and have the same strategy planned. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar, yk?


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## BlessedOne (Apr 22, 2008)

what part of MO


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

> You catch more flies with honey than vinegar, yk?


If you liked the hospital, then I am happy for you. This is the home birth forum a place for support.

Do not down play my or anyone else's happy home births.

I must say that a satisfying hospital birth will depends greatly upon many variables as the mother and her health and expectations, the OB, the midwife, the nurses in charge at any one shift, the politics of the state, county, and local medical association with regard to birth and the policies and routines in place at a hospital with regards to the treatment of the mother, baby, and visitors.


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## Viola P (Sep 14, 2013)

I think applejuice is right - if the purpose of a post is to extol the virtues of hospital birth this isn't the place to do it. 

I've had both and would never ever want to give birth in a hositpal again. My hb on the other hand, which ended up being unassisted as mw didn't arrive until babe was 8 minutes old, was a beautiful amazing experience <3 worlds of difference


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

My ONLY point is that this is a forum FOR home birth and support thereof. I am not downplaying anyone's wonderful hospital experience, but this is not the forum for it. 

I know not all homebirths are joyous and happy.

I know that many women are glad for the hospital experience for the knowledgeable staff, the rest, the pain relief and other amenities. I am happy for any woman who gets what she wants and is satisfied.

But this forum is not for it.


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## Ratchet (Mar 24, 2011)

"Share their personal experiences" and when "home birth may not be a good choice" from the forum guidelines. 

The OP is less likely to find moms who have experienced home birth in other forums. 

I think the discussion re hospital births is hard to avoid, b/c if someone's experience didn't live up to expectations, it makes sense to describe what you are comparing it to. 

I'm sorry you feel this is downplaying your births. Perhaps the OP finds herself in a place where it is hard to find community within mothering forums- elsewhere no one has had the experience, and here she is only allowed to be positive.


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## BlessedOne (Apr 22, 2008)

Apple Juice, I feel the same way in the vegetarian/vegan forum >.<
With all of the forums, it surprises me that there are so many critics. 
In this particular post, I don't think the OP meant any harm by it.....however, I will say that that the thread did perhaps get a little de-railed.


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

> ... however, I will say that that the thread did perhaps get a little de-railed.


That is my entire point.


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## Usually Curious (Apr 26, 2006)

applejuice said:


> My ONLY point is that this is a forum FOR home birth and support thereof. I am not downplaying anyone's wonderful hospital experience, but this is not the forum for it.
> 
> I know not all homebirths are joyous and happy.
> 
> ...


I'm so sorry. I had no idea that you were the sole moderator and evaluator of appropriate posts on this forum. I'll go someplace else.


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## Usually Curious (Apr 26, 2006)

BlessedOne said:


> what part of MO


Springfield/SWMO


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## BlessedOne (Apr 22, 2008)

yes SWMO has the worst midwife options.....one reason why I chose to start ucing...Was it Lori Link that you used? I chose not to go with her for the same reason...she is VERY medically minded and in my opinion makes hb not worth it....if I wanted all the medical jazz, I would birth in the hospital! My friend used her for 3 or 4 births and was happy with her, but I didn't want to use her. There are more options in Arkansas, but unless they are also licensed up here or are lay (or you go to them), then it is pointless anyway.


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## BlessedOne (Apr 22, 2008)

didn't know about this though....http://www.familybirth.com/about/team/mary-ueland-walsh/


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## Usually Curious (Apr 26, 2006)

BlessedOne said:


> didn't know about this though....http://www.familybirth.com/about/team/mary-ueland-walsh/


No, not Lori Link. I don't share the MW's name but ask who my friends are using. If someone says they are using my old MW, then I warn them. My own dd used the same MW with both of her boys. It was hard for me because she was at my birth, knew the mistakes they made, how hard my recover was, and still chose to use her. I had to do some soul searching in order to doula for her birth. I figured she was informed and knew the risks, but ultimately was an adult and could make her own choices.

My friend used Mary Walsh last month and had a fabulous experience. I've only ever heard good things about Family Birth and Wellness.


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## kathymuggle (Jul 25, 2012)

Ratchet said:


> I'm sorry you feel this is downplaying your births. Perhaps the OP finds herself in a place where it is hard to find community within mothering forums- elsewhere no one has had the experience, and here she is only allowed to be positive.


I took a look over the birth forums and there are numerous to choose from where one could discuss the virtues of hospitals. If there were none, you would have a case, but there are numerous.

I have not read this whole thread - but I did read a page back where a poster had an issue with a midwife showing up later than she expected. She still showed up with plenty of time (2 hours ahead of birth) but still - the expectation was the midwife would be there from start to finish.

I had a similar experience with my third child and only homebirth. I expected that the midwife would magically (lol) appear at my house the moment I went into labour. This did not happen. I went into labour, called my midwife, and she told me she was going to finnish up some tasks and would be by in about 1.5 hours. Gack!! I turned out to have a very quick labour and she showed up 45 minutes before the birth. Of course, if my labour had been 30 hours, I would have felt like she was there the whole time, but as my labour was 4 hours max, it really did feel like she just showed up to catch the baby. Ah, well, she did a great job in other ways and I would hire her again in an instant. If I had a do over, though, I would go over expectations re labour day with her a bit more.


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## Usually Curious (Apr 26, 2006)

kathymuggle said:


> I took a look over the birth forums and there are numerous to choose from where one could discuss the virtues of hospitals. If there were none, you would have a case, but there are numerous.
> 
> I have not read this whole thread - but I did read a page back where a poster had an issue with a midwife showing up later than ashe expected. She still showed up with plenty of time (2 hours ahead of birth) but still - the expectation was there from start to finish.
> 
> I had a similar experience with my third child and only homebirth. I expected that the midwife would magically (lol) appear at my house the moment I went into labour. This did not happen. I went into labour, called my midwife, and she told me she was going to finnish up some tasks and woiuld be by in about 1.5 hours. Gack!! I turned out to have a very quick labour and she showed up 45 minutes before the birth. Of course, if my labour had been 30 hours, I would have felt like she was there the whole time, but as my labour was 4 hours max, it really did feel like she just showed up to catch the baby. Ah, well, she did a great job in other ways and I would hired her again in an instant. If I had a do over, though, I would go over expectations re labour day with her a bit more. .


My second birth was half the length of my first birth. The MW was at a family reunion and showed up just in time to catch, literally. It didn't bother me too much because I figure they have lives and family commitments, but it also wasn't my first. I can definitely see how nerve rattling that would be with your first!


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## kathymuggle (Jul 25, 2012)

anilorak13ska said:


> There were definitely aspects of our homebirth that I loved and can't imagine doing any other way.... but two things give me pause. One, I did not care for the pain of natural childbirth.
> 
> I hear you.
> 
> ...


So go to the hospital 

Go where you feel called to go and do not allow yourself to be talked into or out of it, unless it is for solid medical reasons. Your baby and your body!


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## kathymuggle (Jul 25, 2012)

anilorak13ska said:


> My midwife, birth assistant, pediatrician, even La Leche leader all thought DDs latch looked good, while I was in pain. Finally at about 9 weeks postpartum, after nipple damage, mastitis, breast accesses, antibiotics, and yeast infection, I met with a lactation consultant and the next day I was able to put DD back on the breast. We are now full time BF, but I thought the best we could do is exclusive pumping and formula supplementation.
> Now I think if DD had been born in a hospital with a lactation consultant on staff, all this could have been avoided.


Probably not. I gave birth to two kids in hospital, and ended up in the hospital with my third due to an undiscovered-in-pregnancy birth defect.

At no point was I offered a lactation consultant, and with my first I did have issues. Most women are in and out of a hospital in less than 48 hours - not really time to figure out if there are significant problems and call in a LC, you know? Truthfully all the different advice from different nuses was nothing but confusing. I don't think hospitals are great places to learn to nurse. That is my opinion, and I have nursed three kids long term- one during a NICU stay. Breastfeeding does not always come easily to all women, it is not unusual for it to take about 6 weeks to sort out nursing issues. My money is on home being a better place than hospital to sort it out.


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## Viola P (Sep 14, 2013)

I think part of the problem is that op's original post seems to invite criticism of hb, which might not be what the hb forum is for. I'm sure this wasn't intentional, but it's kind of like saying "McDonalds sucks, anyone else agree?" in a forum that's mean to support McDonalds. However I do think it's disingenuous to forbid all criticism of hb. Don't know what the solution is to the issue of where to post, but I will say a possible solution to crapy hb care providers is UC. I UCd after a horribly traumatic hospital birth with an incompetent mw, and it was *awesome*, but I guess there's another forum for UCs too!


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## salr (Apr 14, 2008)

It sounds like for the OP, a UC isn't currently on the table. (I say that being a supporter of UC)

If going to a hospital makes you comfortable, and you have a good hospital nearby, then it might be a great option for you. If your hospital is less than great then I'd do a bunch of research to see if you can get comfortable with home birth again or if it's a safe option for you.

I used Hypnobabies and have great things to say about it. It might help with pain relief.

As to the cord being wrapped around the neck, it's my understanding that is a normal and safe place for the cord to be so that it doesn't get compressed.

I had home births that I loved so I can't answer yes to the first question.


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## BlessedOne (Apr 22, 2008)

oh also, I second the idea that the meds hospitals give don't always do what they should..not sure if I stated it in my first post...but with my hospital birth, I didn't want an IV but it was protocol....so since I already had the IV, I figured I might as well have some drugs pumping through it....so I ended up with a small dose of Demerol (as I was so late into labor that they would not allow more). It didn't help a bit with pain (as it wasn't a pain reliever...but I didn't know that at the time)...it just made me high and I couldn't think straight to do what was needed to do. I asked the nurse about it after the fact and she told me it wasn't a pain reliever, but would just get me my mind off of the pain. I don't think it really did anything other than make me not be able to think straight. Also with the drug option, they told me it could cause breathing issues with baby....thankfully it didn't...but unfortunately with my sis in law she took statol (sp?) and her baby did have breathing issues. I say all of that to say that the drugs are not worth it. Now I haven't had an epidural...so cant say much about that...but I have heard others talk about it wearing off, not working or causing them prolonged temporary paralysis....obviously that is not going to happen all the time, but the risk is there and it bothers me to think of someone jabbing a piece of metal into my spinal cord. But to each their own =S


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## BlessedOne (Apr 22, 2008)

Usually Curious said:


> No, not Lori Link. I don't share the MW's name but ask who my friends are using. If someone says they are using my old MW, then I warn them. My own dd used the same MW with both of her boys. It was hard for me because she was at my birth, knew the mistakes they made, how hard my recover was, and still chose to use her. I had to do some soul searching in order to doula for her birth. I figured she was informed and knew the risks, but ultimately was an adult and could make her own choices.
> 
> My friend used Mary Walsh last month and had a fabulous experience. I've only ever heard good things about Family Birth and Wellness.


well it is good to know it was not lori link....I had heard only good of her. I am sure she is fine, I just like the more hands off approach =) It is also good to get a good report of Mary Walsh. 
I am curious to know who it was if they were in the SWMO area...but I understand you not wanting to slander her name. I wasn't aware of that many midwives in SWMO, but I guess unless they are licensed, they probably keep their head low. =S I do know of one lay midwife that services this area, but she is more of a nomad type.....and that was one of the reasons why she bothered me....she actually wanted to come live with me for 2 weeks before the birth......given I had just met her...that was a little weird for me. I also have an older friend that used a lay midwife in this area......but that was like 16-29 years ago =S 
Most of my local homebirth buddies either use, lori, uc or go to Arkansas....outside of the couple of cases mentioned above.


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## cynthia mosher (Aug 20, 1999)

Seems things are a bit tense in this discussion among some members. Negative comments directed at individuals are never okay so I will be removing at least one post of that nature. If you wish to post in this forum or any other forum on Mothering you have to post respectfully. If you find a post you feel is in violation please report it and let the moderators review it and act if necessary. Reporting a post and then posting to argue against it in the discussion is not appropriate and may earn you a warning.

First, the forum guidelines:



> The Homebirth forum is for parents and parents-to-be to learn more about homebirth, share their personal experiences, get support to have a safe homebirth, or discuss their extenuating circumstances to help them make a decision about birthing at home. Posts made purely for the purpose of debate and criticism of homebirth are not appropriate. Topics of concern, including discussion of the risks and instances wherein homebirth might not be a good choice for a particular pregnancy or presentation may be examined and discussed critically by members who post to this forum regularly as supporters and advocates of homebirth. - See the guidelines here: http://www.mothering.com/articles/homebirth-forum-guidelines/#sthash.y6rDBg7l.dpuf


Share their personal experiences - about homebirth. Sharing about your own homebirth experience is fine. Hospital birth experiences are best hosted in the Birth Stories and Birth and Beyond forum.

...discuss their extenuating circumstances to help them make a decision about birthing at home- anilorak13ska post expresses plans to have a hospital birth and wants to hear experiences of women who first had homebirths, were not happy with their experience, and then decided to have a hospital birth with their subsequent pregnancy. That is not really a homebirth discussion. That is a hospital birth post-homebirth discussion. So it is a discussion to have in the Birth and Beyond forum.

Topics of concern, including discussion of the risks and instances wherein homebirth might not be a good choice for a particular pregnancy or presentation may be examined and discussed critically by members who post to this forum regularly as supporters and advocates of homebirth - anilorak13ska, if you have not yet made the decision to have a hospital birth and would like to have a discussion about safely planning for a homebirth considering your previous birth circumstances, please do post another thread in the Homebirth forum for that particular discussion. Most of those who post regularly to the Homebirth forum as supporters and advocates of homebirth are aware of and understand there are risks with homebirth. They can help you in talking through the things of concern to you so you can make a decision that you feel comfortable with.

Moving this thread to Birth and Beyond with a thread title edit to clarify the topic.


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