# should I let her go?



## MamaLisa1 (Mar 9, 2004)

My DD just turned 16. Her boyfriend is 18.5. We don't especially like him, but are pleasant (me more than dh) to him nevertheless. I am counting the weeks till he leaves for college, because with his history of LOVE for girls, even though her professes love for my daughter, I guarantee it won't take him long to find someone else...which is what I want to happen ultimately, so that my DD can experience dating different people along the way. Anyway....
he sprung this on me today...Saturday, another couple wants my daughter and him to go to the beach with them. Granted, people go to the beach all the time, however I only just recently started allowing him to drive with her on the highway to take her to the mall which is 25 miles away. For me to let them go off on some adventure 125 miles away is way out of my comfort zone. I think she realizes my reasoning and I don't think she will be mad at me at all for saying no, but when I told him it probably wasn't going to happen, he argued all kinds of points with me (it's a day trip, the guy is a safe driver, we'll be home early, etc...) and then said to her that he was going anyway even if she can't. Ugh....what a jerk. I'm sure he said that so I'd feel sorry for her, but honestly...that's on _him_ if he wants to be a jerk like that. She already has plans to go work and ride at a horse farm that day anyway, and I'm really trying to encourage her to stay busy doing other things that do not involve him. I know they haven't had sex yet, and while I have no problem with her having premarital sex eventually, I'd just really rather it not be with him. If you knew the guy, you'd understand. Obnoxious, arrogant, cocky, and an under achiever as far as what he wants out of life. My DD is in the top 1% of her class, national honor roll, and has a bright future ahead of her...complete with GOALS. I just want her to stay on track with her life and get her to August when he leaves for college, 5 hours away.
Anyway, my strong gut reaction is to say NO. I'm not comfortable with her traveling that far without an adult. Can anyone think of a good reason that I should let her go? I think I do give her a certain amount of freedom...they go all around the area and do things together...I just don't see the need to let them take a long day trip like that. She IS just 16...these boys are both 18.


----------



## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I wouldn't let my 16 yr daughter go 125 miles away with ANY group of friends at all. I just don't trust teenager's driving well enough to put my child in a car to spend a long, hot, tiring day of fun, and possibly alchohol to THEN drive 125 miles back home.

It just isn't worth the stress it would cause ME.

_disclaimer: As a teenager, with a boyfriend two years older than I was, I got to do what I wanted, I was rarley told "no" and I am fine, nothing bad ever happened to me while in a group._

But, that doesn't mean I want my own daughter to do the things I did.


----------



## MamaLisa1 (Mar 9, 2004)

the funny thing is, she mentioned to me about going to the beach with his family a couple of weeks ago, and I wasn't even sure I wanted her to go with them, lol! I probably would have...but it really makes me mad that her boyfriend is so ignorant about stuff. My 14 year old daughter told me she "hates" him. She isn't one to really say she hates anyone...just she might not care for a certain person, or they sort of get on her nerves...but she actually hates this kid and wishes her sister would break up with him. I didn't say that we wish that too...but I was sure thinking it.
There are so many other wonderful guys that I know of at her school that she could have chosen...why this guy?
Anyway, back to topic...I was thinking more about this after I posted and she is not going. If he chooses to go without her, I will ask her if that's the type of boyfriend she wants...someone who would tag along as a third wheel, rather than hang out with his girlfriend who wasn't allowed to do something hew was. I have no idea why she puts up with him. I'd say it was his dashing good looks, but unfortunately...that's not the case either. It's been a puzzling one for sure.


----------



## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

That would be a 'no' in this house.


----------



## Pancakes (Jan 22, 2008)

Quote:

when I told him it probably wasn't going to happen, he argued all kinds of points with me
Not with that kind of disrespect for your opinions. Wouldn't happen here.


----------



## meowee (Jul 8, 2004)

How can you know they aren't having sex?

Depending on the age of consent in your state it could be illegal to consent to such a trip if there is even the possibility of sex. Also depending on the age of consent, if they do have sex, he could be charged with statutory rape.

I would never allow my children (or anyone) to drive 125 with a teenage driver... I'm sorry. I've been in car accidents (1 with a teen driver) and have learned paranoia the hard way.


----------



## Marcee (Jan 23, 2007)

Nope, never that far with another teen let alone a group of them. Too many chances for things to go wrong.


----------



## laoxinat (Sep 17, 2007)

Nope, and I'm ususally the 'cool' mom. Too far, too much potential for alcohol and or drugs being along for the ride, too good an opportunity for her to be disillusioned when he goes without her


----------



## angelpie545 (Feb 23, 2005)

I don't have teens yet, but I was one not too long ago and I know my mother would have never let me go that far away to the beach, not at sixteen at least. When I was seventeen she let me drive from Washington to Montana with my then boyfriend, but he had an excellent driving record (he was eighteen at the time) and had proven himself to be very responsible with me (plus we had a cell phone and I called my mother every so often during the trip). However, given the information that you shared, I would personally say "no" this time. A ride to maybe 25 miles away to the beach, I'd probably say yes, but 125 miles is quite a lot with a guy who sounds like he's not too trustworthy.


----------



## JustOneMore (May 29, 2007)

Youre the mother. You said 'no'. That's all the 'good reason' you need.


----------



## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JustOneMore* 
Youre the mother. You said 'no'. That's all the 'good reason' you need.

I disagree. Many families here believe in and value a lot more input from their teens.









I think each family will come to different conclusions or find solutions that will work for them, for different reasons, but _"I'm the mom and I said so"_ just doesn't sit well with me at all.


----------



## MamaLisa1 (Mar 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meowee* 
How can you know they aren't having sex?


I believe her (and him) when I asked and was told that it had not happened. I provided all kinds of scenarios to my daughter, and she stands firm in not wanting to have sex. At this juncture, she does not want children...even as an adult. I feel that may change at some point as she gets older....but her desire NOT to have kids is great enough, and she knows enough about the failure rates of birth control that she is not willing to risk it. When I asked about oral sex, she got all blushy and couldn't look me in the eye. I believe I know her well enough to know when she is guilty!


----------



## MamaLisa1 (Mar 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JustOneMore* 
Youre the mother. You said 'no'. That's all the 'good reason' you need.

I wanted some other input...sometimes, other moms and dads have advice to offer out of their experiences that I consider valuable in my parenting. Ultimately, I'll choose what to do in the end...


----------



## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

For me, your reasons aren't really valid for not letting her go. Assuming she wants to go. Basically your argument is that this slacker dude isn't good enough for your honor roll princess. It's a beach trip for the day. It's not a weekend getaway to France. I let my dd choose her friends. You may not like him, but it sounds like your dd has a good head on her shoulders and is trustworthy and has a good understanding of herself and her desires in life. So I if it was me, I'd trust her to decide if she wants to go.


----------



## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

ITA that "Because I'm the Mommy and I said so" isn't really appropriate for teenagers. I've only used it on very young children who keep asking "why" without really looking for answers, and then only when my limits have been pushed too far!

However, the driving issue alone IMO is reason enough to say "no". You don't feel safe with teenagers driving that far round-trip in one day , don't know either of them well enough to know what kind of drivers they are, etc.

I don't think that "I don't like him and I hope this is an opportunity for her to see what a jerk he is" is a particularly good reason to say no. It's quite fine to THINK it, but it's not something to act upon.


----------



## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

Quote:

She already has plans to go work and ride at a horse farm that day anyway
This is a valid reason for saying no, she already had plans.

Him going without her doesn't make him a jerk though, imo.


----------



## MamaLisa1 (Mar 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna* 
For me, your reasons aren't really valid for not letting her go. Assuming she wants to go. Basically your argument is that this slacker dude isn't good enough for your honor roll princess. It's a beach trip for the day. It's not a weekend getaway to France. I let my dd choose her friends. You may not like him, but it sounds like your dd has a good head on her shoulders and is trustworthy and has a good understanding of herself and her desires in life. So I if it was me, I'd trust her to decide if she wants to go.

Frankly, I don't appreciate your sarcastic naming of my daughter as being my "honor roll princess". That was quite rude.
If you re-read what I wrote, my primary concern was this _"however I only just recently started allowing him to drive with her on the highway to take her to the mall which is 25 miles away. For me to let them go off on some adventure 125 miles away is way out of my comfort zone."_
The fact that he is an 18 year old jerk (who we have LET her choose to date in spite of feelings of dismay around it) are just the icing on the cake. If he weren't an obnoxious twit, would we let her go? I very seriously doubt it. It has nothing to do with her being a good kid, it has more to do with safety issues on the highway for one thing, and being with kids that I don't especially care for doesn't help.
Again...no real reason for you to be calling my daughter names...that was uncalled for.


----------



## MamaLisa1 (Mar 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 
I don't think that "I don't like him and I hope this is an opportunity for her to see what a jerk he is" is a particularly good reason to say no. It's quite fine to THINK it, but it's not something to act upon.

Um, that wasn't at all what I said. IF, she happens to notice that he is a jerk about it after I've said no, that's another thing entirely. I would never base my decision to allow her to do something with malicious intent...otherwise, I would never let her go anywhere with him. I simply mentioned how he was acting like a dork about it, to make a point with regard to how much we don't like her dating him. As he continues to behave in an unsavory manner, I can't help but hope that she does notice his behavior, since everyone else (friends, family, etc...) notices it and cannot understand why she would tolerate it.
I should not have mixed the two things. Point A is, I don't feel comfortable with her going. Point B is, we do not like her boyfriend.


----------



## MamaLisa1 (Mar 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CarrieMF* 
Him going without her doesn't make him a jerk though, imo.

No it doesn't. If it were a whole big group of people going, I would see why he'd go, but he'd be tagging along with another couple! His verbal delivery of it was what DOES make him a jerk. If he had said "well, crap...if your parents won't let you go...I hope you won't mind if I still do...I was really looking forward to it" that would have been one thing. The way that he said it was very mean spirited and immature. He said "Just so you know, if you can't go, I'm going anyway without you" and he said it with a mean look on his face, a nasty tone of voice...rolled his eyes, and looked away.


----------



## NaomiMcC (Mar 22, 2007)

F*ck no. Pardon my french...but no way would I let my 16 year old daughter drive 125 miles in a car with a bunch of other teenagers for a weekend away. Not. Happening. Too many things could happen and I'd be too far away to do anything about it. And it's not that I wouldn't trust her...i wouldn't trust the other teens.


----------



## ani'smommy (Nov 29, 2005)

I would say no as well. She might be hoping you will say no, even, then she could say that she can't go because her mom won't let her.


----------



## stayinghome (Jul 4, 2002)

Honor roll princess? Wow, that's harsh.

Mama, it sounds like you aren't comfortable with the situation. Have you sat down and talked with your daughter to get her feelings and opinions on the matter?


----------



## hanno (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna* 
For me, your reasons aren't really valid for not letting her go. Assuming she wants to go. Basically your argument is that this slacker dude isn't good enough for your honor roll princess. It's a beach trip for the day. It's not a weekend getaway to France. I let my dd choose her friends. You may not like him, but it sounds like your dd has a good head on her shoulders and is trustworthy and has a good understanding of herself and her desires in life. So I if it was me, I'd trust her to decide if she wants to go.

I'm hearing this too. And not in a name-calling kind of way. Remember, all we have to go on are the OP's choice of words.

When I read:

Quote:

If you knew the guy, you'd understand. Obnoxious, arrogant, cocky, and an under achiever as far as what he wants out of life. My DD is in the top 1% of her class, national honor roll, and has a bright future ahead of her...complete with GOALS. I just want her to stay on track with her life and get her to August when he leaves for college, 5 hours away.
I feel kinda sick. Academic goals are not the only valid goals. Besides, he is going to go to college so he doesn't seem like he's headed for a life of couch potato-ing. Obnoxious, arrogant and cocky are petty rude words to call someone else's child and then get all up-in-arms when your description of your own child isn't viewed as stellar. Those descriptions could also be made in a derogatory way of a person who is self-confident and intelligent.

Probably I would discourage her from going, but it would have nothing to do with my distaste for her partner.


----------



## robertandenith (Apr 1, 2008)

I don't have a teen... yet! But I was one and I have 2 daughters. My mom never EVER let me go out with friends before 18 years old. She would probably drop me off or pick me up and I was fine with that. Yeah, the boys are 18 but not your daughter. I am so glad you are saying no. I do think the response of the guy after you said no, was rude. He would've discuss it after you were gone with her as a respect to you or even your daughter's!

I understand so much about your decision and empathize with it too! Sorry but I do think he reacted like a jerk


----------



## Alkenny (May 4, 2004)

I'll be the odd one out here and say that I'd probably let my DD go if she didn't have anything else going on.

If they're going to have sex or do drugs, they'll do it anywhere. They don't need 125 miles between you to do it. And accidents can happen anywhere too...whether it's 125 miles away or down on the corner.

The reason I wouldn't though? She has a prior commitment. That is reason enough to say no.


----------



## mamabeca (Oct 3, 2004)

I'd say no for the following reasons:

1. 125 mi is too far for dh and I to 'rescue' her if she called and needed help.

2. having a prior commitment

3. gut feeling that it's out of your comfort zone.

4. he isn't being respectful about your needs in all this - that's symptomatic and could be showing that he ALSO won't honor HER needs.

5. YOU feel more comfortable with a NO, probably so do other adults involved. 16 is old enough in most states that if something happened against her will it would have to go through as a rape trial, which would SUCK for everyone. It's true that kids who want to have sex can have it behind the house at night w/out you knowing it, but I DON'T think that means to offer them the ways and means of having it w/your blessing if you don't feel comfortable with him. it's super likely that she's experimenting with this guy in all sorts of ways new to her, but that - to ME - would mean keeping her close to the homestead so that she ALWAYS has a safe place to return to with each venture out.

I didn't hear much about what your dd wants - I ASSUME that she'd prefer to go to the beach over the horse farm, or we wouldn't be talking about any of this, but DID she? Is there enough safe space for her to make a decision he doesn't like, or is she asking you to make those decisions for her?

Good luck with this guy, mama. He sounds like a doozey!

Arduinna, why stir it up - can't you figure out a nicer way to say what you want to say w/out insulting the op? Geesh.


----------



## nonnymoose (Mar 12, 2004)

Quote:

when I told him it probably wasn't going to happen, he argued all kinds of points with me
This is the point at which a potential suitor's welcome mat at our house would have been taken up. If he's not willing to respect your decision as the parent who has nurtured your daughter for sixteen years, why would he respect her any more? You folks that think it's fine to let your kids do whatever they want because they're teenagers, good luck. As long as my boys are living in my house, I will expect them to occasionally suffer a "no" because I have thirty-odd more years of life experience than they do. That's my job.


----------



## hanno (Oct 4, 2006)

I still really question many of the respondents and the OP about why respect is a one-way street here. You tend to get what you give.
This strikes a cord with me because I heard my father in law call my brother in law (his daughter's DP) a 'nowhere man'. He is expected to be respectful of a man who says this of him. No, he didn't go to college or have a high paying job and he does have long hair. He is also a fantastic father and a loving partner. He's working out a way to work at home so he and my SIL can raise their children full time. He also speaks his mind. These are traits that I would greatly prefer over academics.


----------



## Hippie Mama in MI (Jan 15, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaLisa1* 
Anyway, my strong gut reaction is to say NO.

There you go. Your gut is right on, mama. Don't let your DD alone with this creep for that long!


----------



## PassionateWriter (Feb 27, 2008)

I think I would trust my dd to decide what to do...sounds like she is an intelligent person. IMHO you only get so many years of control...at some point you have to allow them to make their own mistakes...and yes, those mistakes can be hurtful to watch at times..but they are necessary for life lessons.


----------



## Fletchersmama (May 23, 2003)

I would say no. Flat out, and let him know I don't appreciate the arguments. Nicely tell him to vacate my home for arguing with me!!!
Discussion is one thing, arguing is unimaginable to me in this situation.

Either way, trust your gut


----------



## mamabeca (Oct 3, 2004)

I think the OP has stated that she has never said anything disrespectful to her dd or the bf about him. I give her kudos for that! And although I think it's your gut reaction to not 'allow' her to go, what was her gut reaction (after the excitement?)? It seems like an ideal opportunity to sit down with her and talk about expectations - how much does she expect you to limit what she does? How much should you be interfeering with her decision making? These are questions kids need to work out w/their parents so that there is more communication and less conflict. kwim?


----------



## kate3 (May 4, 2007)

Quote:

Honor roll princess? Wow, that's harsh.
And completely uncalled for.

From what you posted I would not let my daughter go (in that situation) for many reasons: gut feeling, his attitude, her prior committment.
Good luck.


----------



## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

As someone who recently let her 17year old daughter go to the Dominican Republic with her 19 year old boyfriend I vote "NO" and not because I had any problem with her going..it all went well and they were fine.

But I had no gut feelings that it wasn't a good thing to do. I knew their relationship, knew him as someone who loved and respected her and would keep her as safe as possible and knew her as very cautious about things and that she would not take unnecessary risks.

Doesn't sound like you know these things about your daughter and/or her boyfriend. Trust your instinct on this.

I would strongly suggest not forbidding her outright and immediately to go but rather discussing all the reasons you are uncomfortable with it and use prior commitment as part of the discussion. I would also be very uncomfortable with the manipulative tone the boyfriend has taken and if my daughter's boyfriend ever tried to manipulate a situation that way(I'll go without you














I'd immediately call him on it. It's emotional blackmail and I'd be very concerned about that kind of control being exerted on my daughter.

Good luck! Hope you can find some solution you are comfortable with.


----------



## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaLisa1* 
Frankly, I don't appreciate your sarcastic naming of my daughter as being my "honor roll princess". That was quite rude.
If you re-read what I wrote, my primary concern was this _"however I only just recently started allowing him to drive with her on the highway to take her to the mall which is 25 miles away. For me to let them go off on some adventure 125 miles away is way out of my comfort zone."_
The fact that he is an 18 year old jerk (who we have LET her choose to date in spite of feelings of dismay around it) are just the icing on the cake. If he weren't an obnoxious twit, would we let her go? I very seriously doubt it. It has nothing to do with her being a good kid, it has more to do with safety issues on the highway for one thing, and being with kids that I don't especially care for doesn't help.
Again...no real reason for you to be calling my daughter names...that was uncalled for.

If it was really about highway safety I doubt you would have included all the info about her honor role status and his unworthiness for her. And that was what stood out the most to me.

I really think the issue is the you don't like him, and are looking for reasons to keep them apart. Your contempt of him was pretty clear.

Quote:

I am counting the weeks till he leaves

Quote:

because with his history of LOVE for girls, even though her professes love for my daughter, I guarantee it won't take him long to find someone else...which is what I want to happen ultimately

Quote:

what a jerk

Quote:

that's on him if he wants to be a jerk like that

Quote:

I'm really trying to encourage her to stay busy doing other things that do not involve him

Quote:

I know they haven't had sex yet, and while I have no problem with her having premarital sex eventually, *I'd just really rather it not be with him*

Quote:

Obnoxious, arrogant, cocky, and an under achiever as far as what he wants out of life.
Yes the majority of your post was about him and his unacceptability in your eyes.


----------



## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

I wouldn't, just b/c I would be afraid of something happening. A car wreck, etc. Is an 18 year old responsible enough to get medical help, etc. I also worry if they fight, will he leave her there? What if the others decide they don't yet want to leave. Its a long way for you to have to rescue her. Thats my only concern.

Sex will happen if they want it to. Even if they are forbidden to see each other. They can get it on in school during lunch or whatever, trust me.







I know a girl who got pregnant that way even though she never saw the boy outside of school. That would not be a valid reason to stop the trip imo. Nor would it be b/c I don't like the guy.

I am sure she knows your feelings about this guy. I would not point out the guys "bad" qualities. She will notice them herself in time. I would remain neutral about this guy in front of her. She already knows you don't like him. Telling her you don't like him the 1,000th time or way will not make her like him less. Whenever my parents were overly negatively opinionated about one of my boyfriends, they became the forbidden fruit. My parents opinion then mattered less to me since they were so pushy. If your girl is as smart as you say she is, she WILL see the guy for who he is in time.


----------



## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

I'm with Ard. For all the reasons she quoted/highlighted above.

And Hanno.


----------



## Oriole (May 4, 2007)

*** You don't approve of him, but allowing your daughter to see him, that shows me you allow your daughter to make her own choices and mistakes.

*** I'd say no to the trip, and explain why calmly and respectfully.

*** I find it ironic that people that call for you to respect your daughter's decision don't show the same in their replies here.

*** Yeah, I'm all for discussion, I'm all for understanding, and guess what, when my DSD (who is 15) gets cranky when she hears "no", she admits later on that she understands why she got told "no" later on. So Yeah... I'm with "parents have a final say" camp, as long as it's based on love and reason.

*** Throw your tomatoes my way, teenagers act impulsively, and I'm ok with parents stepping in, as long as it's not all the time, and you do allow your kids to grow and mature, which includes dealing with "no"s and not sticking around boyfriends who have no problem leaving you behind for a beach trip.


----------



## JustOneMore (May 29, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Oriole* 

*** Yeah, I'm all for discussion, I'm all for understanding, and guess what, when my DSD (who is 15) gets cranky when she hears "no", *she admits later on that she understands why she got told "no" later on. So Yeah... I'm with "parents have a final say" camp, as long as it's based on love and reason.*
*** Throw your tomatoes my way, teenagers act impulsively, and I'm ok with parents stepping in, as long as it's not all the time, and you do allow your kids to grow and mature, which includes dealing with "no"s and not sticking around boyfriends who have no problem leaving you behind for a beach trip.


THANK YOU!


----------



## MamaLisa1 (Mar 9, 2004)

wow Arruinna, you really took a lot of time to prove your point. True, I don't like him. True, he is all the things I said he is (if you met him, you'd understand after 10 minutes what I'm talking about), and as I said...I probably should have kept the "should I let her go" post separate from the "I can't stand the boyfriend" post, but I sort of felt they went together, as it meant that I was even less inclined to allow her to go with him after how argumentative and disrespectful he became.
That said, I asked myself and my husband..."if she were asking to go with a boy we liked (and she has a guy friend whom we ADORE...great kid!) would we still have said no?" The answer was that we still would have said no. Too many things could go wrong on a trip like that. While I feel she is maturing at a nice rate, I don't feel she is quite ready for that type of outing.

As for me thinking he is unworthy because of his lack of goals, that doesn't necessarily mean a person needs to go for a 4, 6 or 8 year degree to be deemed worthy. If he were going to a trade school, or had aspirations to be his own boss in a small business, I would think that was wonderful. He has chosen a major that gives him virtually no chances for a career, and has said many times that he doesn't care about school or grades, and that college is just about fun. I think his parents might not appreciate spending 30K a year for him to go have fun! Sure, college is about wonderful times...but if one of my children had the same outlook on it as he does, I would encourage them to stay home, work, and go to community college until they got their acts together. Anyway...I'm not sure you will understand what I am referring to even after my explanation, but while I care about him as a human being and do not wish harm to come his way, he has acted in a manner that is not deserving of kinder words in my eyes. He has made all of my children and ME cry. He has angered my husband to the point of heart palpitations and raised blood pressure. When I said he was obnoxious, arrogant, and cocky...those were truths. If I were to ask any of my daughter's friends to describe him in one word, I have a feeling their words would be far more harsh. Trust me, they've said it to me many times.
Anyway, I made my decision...she isn't going. He made his decision and he is. My second DD asked her sister tonight when she is going to find a boyfriend who treats her with respect. DD1 laughed it off and said "shut up" and play fought with her for a minute, but she knows deep down how we all feel. Now it's up to her to decide her fate. She just deserves so much more, regardless of her academic standing, or what her future holds. If she finds someone who is hardworking and treats her like an absolute princess, we will welcome into our family with open arms.


----------



## hanno (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaLisa1* 
Anyway, I made my decision...she isn't going. He made his decision and he is. My second DD asked her sister tonight when she is going to find a boyfriend who treats her with respect. DD1 laughed it off and said "shut up" and play fought with her for a minute, but she knows deep down how we all feel. Now it's up to her to decide her fate. She just deserves so much more, regardless of her academic standing, or what her future holds. If she finds someone who is hardworking and *treats her like an absolute princess*, we will welcome into our family with open arms.









?


----------



## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

: What?


----------



## MamaLisa1 (Mar 9, 2004)

I give up. no matter what I say, what I do, it's the wrong answer and I'm being judged, attacked, or whatever. I guess I was stupid in coming to ask a question that I probably already knew the answer to. I guess I was also stupid to think that I could further explain myself and have anyone understand what I was referring to. It's like everyone is just waiting for one little thing within a post to get riled up about. I don't have the time for this kind of nonsense. Forget it. I'm just getting aggravated. None of you know me, or can get the full understanding of what I mean since you do not know me, or know the ongoing history here.
Now, I need to go find a way to do a primal scream where no one will hear me, out of the sheer frustration of this whole thing.


----------



## nonnymoose (Mar 12, 2004)

Oh, yes, here we go: how dare the OP want the best for her own daughter? Goooood grief. OP, accept that nothing you do, short of sending your sixteen-year-old to Aruba with the next stoner you see, will prove your openminded support of her budding adulthood.
YOU are her mother, and YOU decide what's best for her. I'm glad to see you've gotten some support here from people who understand that sometimes, words are just words.


----------



## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaLisa1* 
I give up. no matter what I say, what I do, it's the wrong answer and I'm being judged, attacked, or whatever. I guess I was stupid in coming to ask a question that I probably already knew the answer to. I guess I was also stupid to think that I could further explain myself and have anyone understand what I was referring to. It's like everyone is just waiting for one little thing within a post to get riled up about. I don't have the time for this kind of nonsense. Forget it. I'm just getting aggravated. None of you know me, or can get the full understanding of what I mean since you do not know me, or know the ongoing history here.
Now, I need to go find a way to do a primal scream where no one will hear me, out of the sheer frustration of this whole thing.









None of that is what I have meant at all.

Sometimes it's one little thing in a post that is very telling.

We aren't all going to agree on this or any forum. All we can do is our best.


----------



## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nonnymoose* 
Oh, yes, here we go: how dare the OP want the best for her own daughter? Goooood grief. OP, accept that nothing you do, short of sending your sixteen-year-old to Aruba with the next stoner you see, will prove your openminded support of her budding adulthood. .

Totally not what I was meaning either, btw. *sigh....


----------



## nonnymoose (Mar 12, 2004)

You can say you didn't mean to attack her, but it sure didn't look that way to me. She's struggling with when and how to let her daughter become an adult, and some of you are crapping all over her for asking for help. You jumped all OVER her because she didn't use words that *you* thought were the right words. Why should you pick her words? Why did you assume the words meant the same thing to her that they did to you?


----------



## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nonnymoose* 
You can say you didn't mean to attack her, but it sure didn't look that way to me. She's struggling with when and how to let her daughter become an adult, and some of you are crapping all over her for asking for help. You jumped all OVER her because she didn't use words that *you* thought were the right words. Why should you pick her words? Why did you assume the words meant the same thing to her that they did to you?


I don't think I get to pick her words. _I do_ think I get to respond to them. I never attacked her or called her any names. I just said (or agreed with someone who said) what I was thinking or feeling about the issue she presented. I can only read what she is writing... and I am going to make my assumptions based on what she (or anyone) writes.









Some of us understood, from _her words_, that she didn't want her Dd to hang out with this kid because she doesn't agree with his college plans and she mentioned her Dd's honor roll status as if it were relevant to this situation. Otherwise it's not something we'd have even considered. Do you see what I mean?

Of course she's free to do whatever she wants and to handle this situation in whatever way she decides is best. But she did come here to ask other people for their thoughts, and we gave them to her. I re read my posts and I honestly don't see where I was inappropriate. I'd be open to seeing where you think I was though.







:


----------



## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

We don't "let" our kids become adults. They do, period.

No one is crapping on her for asking for help. People are pointing out what they see based on the posts made. She can agree, or not agree, that is her choice. And of course no one here knows the situation perfectly, all we can do is go by what was posted. And that is what people are doing.


----------



## Flor (Nov 19, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nextcommercial* 
I wouldn't let my 16 yr daughter go 125 miles away with ANY group of friends at all. I just don't trust teenager's driving well enough to put my child in a car to spend a long, hot, tiring day of fun, and possibly alchohol to THEN drive 125 miles back home.

It just isn't worth the stress it would cause ME.

_disclaimer: As a teenager, with a boyfriend two years older than I was, I got to do what I wanted, I was rarley told "no" and I am fine, nothing bad ever happened to me while in a group._

But, that doesn't mean I want my own daughter to do the things I did.

Same thing. I would have been allowed to do that as a teen and I was a good girl and I'm fine and nothing bad happened. I do worry about teens and driving. That would be my concern.


----------



## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nonnymoose* 
OP, accept that nothing you do, short of sending your sixteen-year-old to Aruba with the next stoner you see, will prove your openminded support of her budding adulthood.

You might want to scroll up and see where I posted that a trip to the beach ISN'T a weekend in France. So your argument proves to have no merit whatsoever.


----------



## nonnymoose (Mar 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna* 
We don't "let" our kids become adults. They do, period.

You're doing the wrong-word thing to me now. My eyes are going to roll right out of my head if I keep reading, and I'm going to need them tomorrow when I go to work, so I'm going to go to bed now. Y'all have a nice night.


----------



## nonnymoose (Mar 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna* 
You might want to scroll up and see where I posted that a trip to the beach ISN'T a weekend in France. So your argument proves to have no merit whatsoever.

Unless, of course, it was hyperbole, in which case it has quite a bit of merit now that you've proven my point. Twice. G'night!


----------



## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

what merit?

That I pay attention to what people say?















yep ya got me


----------



## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nextcommercial* 
I wouldn't let my 16 yr daughter go 125 miles away with ANY group of friends at all. I just don't trust teenager's driving well enough to put my child in a car to spend a long, hot, tiring day of fun, and possibly alchohol to THEN drive 125 miles back home.

It just isn't worth the stress it would cause ME.










:


----------



## kennedy444 (Aug 2, 2002)

No way, no how.
Besides the guy is a jerk. Way too far for my dd to ride with a bunch of teens.


----------



## jeca (Sep 21, 2002)

I would not. If DH and I actually liked and trusted him we may actually consider it. BUt in this case I would say no.


----------



## leerypolyp (Feb 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Oriole* 
*** You don't approve of him, but allowing your daughter to see him, that shows me you allow your daughter to make her own choices and mistakes.

*** I'd say no to the trip, and explain why calmly and respectfully.

*** I find it ironic that people that call for you to respect your daughter's decision don't show the same in their replies here.

*** Yeah, I'm all for discussion, I'm all for understanding, and guess what, when my DSD (who is 15) gets cranky when she hears "no", she admits later on that she understands why she got told "no" later on. So Yeah... I'm with "parents have a final say" camp, as long as it's based on love and reason.

*** Throw your tomatoes my way, teenagers act impulsively, and I'm ok with parents stepping in, as long as it's not all the time, and you do allow your kids to grow and mature, which includes dealing with "no"s and not sticking around boyfriends who have no problem leaving you behind for a beach trip.

A big :YEAHTHAT to all of the above.

I say this not as a mom of teenager ('cause mine is just 2), but as someone whose teenage life is still fresh in her mind. I can remember my parents drawing a line sometimes, and as much as I resisted, I always knew they were right, eventually.

And, oh, man, the arguing from Boyfriend would have driven me over the _edge_. No means no, dude, whether it comes from Mama or Girlfriend.


----------



## ammipie (Mar 19, 2007)

i agree w/ you, and although i don't know him and can't judge him personally, from you have said he does sound like a jerk. And personally thats reason enough for me. the fact that your not at ease with his driving is just the last nail in the coffin

by the way don't let some critcal people keep you away. look for the positive, the things that actually help and then just send good vibes to everyone else. maybe their day will get better or they will grow maturity and understanding , and mercy for those who don't approach life the same way they do







:







:







:

BAsically i think your doing the right thing and even if no one else did you are great to stick to your guns and do what you know is right for your daughter


----------



## alima (Jun 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna* 
We don't "let" our kids become adults. They do, period.

No one is crapping on her for asking for help. People are pointing out what they see based on the posts made. She can agree, or not agree, that is her choice. And of course no one here knows the situation perfectly, all we can do is go by what was posted. And that is what people are doing.

I think that crapping on her is exactly what you did.

I don't know why I bothered to read this thread. I knew what would happen, sigh


----------



## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Maybe I missed it in the thread, but what is the OP's DD's preference? Does she want to go to the beach, or does she want to stick with her previous plans?

I'd let her go if she really wants to, but if she'd prefer to stick to her other plans and was not willing to say so to the boyfriend, I'd talk to her about that.


----------



## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Yes, the Dd's POV would be important too. I'd hate for her to feel like she "has to" go just because she was invited or because her boyfriend wants to go.

Also, I never said I'd be comfortable in the same situation. I just think my reasons and my approach would be different.


----------



## Meg_s (Apr 13, 2006)

Hmm... when I was 16 I had been to Scotland by myself, Germany with a band, and made frequent weekend trips with said band (all adult males, and me) so I might have a different perspective(there was no sexual activity, there was a lot of drinking). When I was 17 I would sometimes take the bus, sometimes drive ten hours 1 way down to New York City (from Ontario) to visit my boyfriend - usually he drive up on weekends to see me. I'd be worried about him driving, because in general I just don't trust young male drivers, but a day trip? So given my experience, it doesn't seem like a big deal to me. But every teenager is different, and I certainly had girlfriends and sisters who would not have been allowed to do those things at that age.


----------



## PassionateWriter (Feb 27, 2008)

It seems like the responses were pretty mixed, in favor and against allowing the girl to go. I dont understand why this thread turned so negative b/c some actually advocated allowing the dd to make up her own mind. This is one of the major issues with posting on message boards...everyone will NOT always agree with you. You have to read the opinions and take away what YOU want...and leave the rest.


----------



## S.Raine-Drop (Apr 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alkenny* 
I'll be the odd one out here and say that I'd probably let my DD go if she didn't have anything else going on.

If they're going to have sex or do drugs, they'll do it anywhere. They don't need 125 miles between you to do it. And accidents can happen anywhere too...whether it's 125 miles away or down on the corner.

The reason I wouldn't though? She has a prior commitment. That is reason enough to say no.

I pretty much agree with this post, except saying no because of her prior commitment. I say it's her choice whether or not she "blows off" other plans, she's old enough to know what the right thing to do is.

When I was 16 my mom let me go 3 hours up to Bellingham from where we lived in Federal Way with my boyfriend, on two different occasions. SO MUCH could have happened and I'm probably super lucky it didn't, because he was the WORST kind of guy you can imagine. Did every drug out there, lied about everything, drank, cheated, etc etc etc. At the time, we were semi aware but he was GOOD at what he did, and we were convinced he was "changed."

In any case, my mom was pretty lenient about what she let me do, and I was for the most part a smart girl. I never got into serious trouble, I had no help with homework and I did great in school, I had no serious attitude problems, and with the exception of one girl my mom just didn't like I always picked good friends. (That girl she didn't like was only because I got into trouble with her once when we rode our bikes super far ((for 12 year olds on bikes anyway)) and I fell off and my mom had to drive out to come get us.. )

The point is, my mom trusted me. It didn't matter if she didn't trust who I was with because her trust and faith in *me* was greater. She knew I could hold my own should I need to and she knew that our relationship was something to cherish. I think that if you have that kind of relationship with your daughter you can look past her "yuck" boyfriend and let her go, since the boyfriend (and not having prior plans) seems to be your biggest roadblock. Like Alkenny said, if something is going to happen, it will no matter who what where when or why. Hope I helped at all!


----------



## odenata (Feb 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
Maybe I missed it in the thread, but what is the OP's DD's preference? Does she want to go to the beach, or does she want to stick with her previous plans?

This is what I was wondering, too.


----------



## funkygranolamama (Aug 10, 2005)

I've been 16 years old and I would not have wanted my dd to go.

That said, if I was 16 and my mom told me I couldn't go, I'd tell her I was going to the horse farm and go anyway...


----------



## emelsea (Jun 21, 2005)

Regardless of how I felt about my child's friends, I would say "no" simply because 4 teenagers in a car scares the bejesus out of me.

We already have the rule in my house that DSS is not allowed to ride in a car with more than one other teen, if that teen is the driver, unless there is also a parent in the car. So this trip would be a "no" based on that.

I hate to make a blanket statement, but I just don't trust teenage judgement in regards to driving, especially with a group in the car. My opinion is based on living a few blocks from the high school and observing hundreds of teens driving to and from school every day. *shudder*


----------



## S.Raine-Drop (Apr 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *emelsea* 
Regardless of how I felt about my child's friends, I would say "no" simply because 4 teenagers in a car scares the bejesus out of me.

We already have the rule in my house that DSS is not allowed to ride in a car with more than one other teen, if that teen is the driver, unless there is also a parent in the car. So this trip would be a "no" based on that.

*I hate to make a blanket statement, but I just don't trust teenage judgement in regards to driving, especially with a group in the car. My opinion is based on living a few blocks from the high school and observing hundreds of teens driving to and from school every day. *shudder**

Ah I have to say I hear you on this! I could *not* believe the stupid behavior and the overflow of immaturity in a vast majority of the drivers. I don't believe I will use this as a basis in my own parenting though, I think situations are just more complicated than just "I don't like teens driving." (I think that's why you called it a blanket statement? Haven't heard that one!)


----------



## enkmom (Aug 30, 2004)

I composed a post many times in the last few days, but BabyBlanketGawki hit the nail on the head for me with her first post. It is not about my kids' friends, it is about the trust I have in my own children. My daughter regularly drove 2 hours or more with her friends on shopping trips, and my 17 year old son went with a group of 6 other boys for a weekend at a basketball championship. They drove themselves, rented themselves a hotel room, and drove themselves home, all with no parental supervision. There was drinking involved in some of the other rooms, and there were arrests, but my child and his friends were not involved. I trusted him and his choice of friends.

I also am uncomfortable with the emphasis on grades, not just here in this thread but everywhere in life. In high school, my daughter was a "slacker". She certainly was not on the honor roll, and she did not appear to have any GOALS. Well she did have a goal,a big one - she wanted to get out of high school! She is now thriving at college, and not getting good grades did not make her a bad person, or a bad influence.


----------



## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna* 
For me, your reasons aren't really valid for not letting her go. Assuming she wants to go. Basically your argument is that this slacker dude isn't good enough for your honor roll princess. It's a beach trip for the day. It's not a weekend getaway to France. I let my dd choose her friends. You may not like him, but it sounds like your dd has a good head on her shoulders and is trustworthy and has a good understanding of herself and her desires in life. So I if it was me, I'd trust her to decide if she wants to go.

That's pretty much what I was going to say. Although, the part about him arguing with you does bother me.

Edited to add: I just wanted to clarify, that I think it has a lot less to do with the other people than your daughter herself. If she is a trustworthy person and makes good decisions, then it should be safe. If you know she would never get in a car with someone who has been drinking, then you don't need to worry that someone will be drinking, you know? Not that being responsible gives them carte blanche at 16, but really, 16 is pretty old, and I would think old enough to drive a few hours for a day beach trip. But ultimately it comes down to how you feel about her judgement and decision making skills. It really doesn't matter who has what grades.


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

.... Simple Issue.

Regardless of how 'trustworthy' your daughter is.

1. Is your daughter the one driving? If the answer is yes move to 2, if no move to 3

2. Would you trust your daughter to drive 125 miles each way to the beach alone? If yes then let her make up her mind, if no then it is a moot point and she wouldn't be going alone, let alone in a group.

3. Who is driving? How old are they? Have you ever driven with them? What is their driving record? Are they willing to get the pring out and bring it to you? If the answers are 1- I don't know the answer would be no. 2-Under 25 the answer is move on to 3. If No then move to 4, if yes then in your opinion are they a good driver and decide from there., 4-if over 25 then ask 'why are you hanging out with 16 year olds?'. 3&4- If their driving record is less then impeccable and under the age of 21 then my answer is 'no'

And at the end of all of this.... My answer would basically be no if I have to ask these questions in the first place. In some states a teenager can't even drive with a non family member for a number of years anyways but they CAN drive alone. That is a good policy regardless of the local laws and my kids won't be transporting their friends until they are 18 or have been driving for 2 years so long as they are living under my roof, and they won't be sitting in the car of one of their friends that I personally haven't been a passenger in their car first.

To many of my friends (2) died in high school because of either immature or drunk driving as teenagers. No thanks.

ETA:
There are plenty of valid reasons for 25 year olds to hang out with 16 year olds. You have to have a valid reason in MY opinion to hang out with MY 16 year old if you are 25. Valid reasons consist of: Relative, Elder in their Youth Group(church or not doesnt matter) supervising an outting, Supervisor or Teacher at their school are among a few of what I consider 'valid' Reasons, but to be honest it is at my opinion what I determine to be 'valid' and what is 'valid' for one person may not be 'valid' for another. I am the father and in the end I will do what is right by my teenagers and trusting their safety to someone I don't know in a 2 ton killing machine is at my discretion. And that is what a car is. A killing machine that just so happens to also get someone from point a to b.


----------



## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

I do have to say that it's a lot easier to like a kid who is likeable. I've never had a teen (who wasn't my own lol ) argue with me about my family.

When my ds went away to college, I thought his gf's mother would do a happy dance. But no, she came to my house the day before he left and cried she was so upset he was leaving. I was shocked. "I love him like I love my own. I couldn't have hoped for a nicer boy friend for my daughter".

I think her kid is fabulous as well, ftr. If I didn't like her or thought she treated my son poorly, or had qquestionable judgement, I would have a terrible time even watching them leave for a movie together, never mind sgoing so far away with someone I didn't trust (for whatever reasons). Of course, ds is not 15 anymore...my days of intense parenting him are over. My oldest dd is 15, and I think I would worry a lot about such a long car trip with drivers who might not be experienced. It's not like 125 miles is a quick trip for a parent in case of emergency. I would give pause, depending on the individual situation.

It's also nice when teens work to build a little trust with parental untis of friends.

Btw, my ds and gf are still together, and the mother of the gf actually OK'd her hs age dd to visit him at college during a long weekend. It's a lot easier to deal with all of that when you your child's partner is kind and thoughful towards your child.

That's my experience with teens and dating, anyway.


----------



## newclementine (Jan 23, 2008)

My answer is NO too.
Just because he says the driver is a safe driver doesn't mean he is. I don't have a teenager but I am a teacher of teenagers, so I am familiar.








When I was 16/17 (a million years ago) I got into a lot of trouble in the guise of going to the beach or going to the river to go canoeing, but I think my parents just thought they were innocent trips (I should ask them someday...) Especially if your daughter won't freak and already has other plans anyway, say no! Explain to her your worries, it sounds like she's reasonable. You are already pretty open if you let her date this guy anyway. And if he has a problem with it he can go find a gf his own age!


----------



## attachedmamaof3 (Dec 2, 2006)

I would let her go if she wanted to go. It's a day trip to the beach...stuff you should be doing when you're 16 and carefree. Even if it is with someone you don't necessarily approve of...

I would also make sure she had a cell phone and a way to reach me, because I can't completely let go of my control freak ways with my kids!


----------



## LizD (Feb 22, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Oriole* 
*** You don't approve of him, but allowing your daughter to see him, that shows me you allow your daughter to make her own choices and mistakes.

*** I'd say no to the trip, and explain why calmly and respectfully.

*** I find it ironic that people that call for you to respect your daughter's decision don't show the same in their replies here.

*** Yeah, I'm all for discussion, I'm all for understanding, and guess what, when my DSD (who is 15) gets cranky when she hears "no", she admits later on that she understands why she got told "no" later on. So Yeah... I'm with "parents have a final say" camp, as long as it's based on love and reason.

*** Throw your tomatoes my way, teenagers act impulsively, and I'm ok with parents stepping in, as long as it's not all the time, and you do allow your kids to grow and mature, which includes dealing with "no"s and not sticking around boyfriends who have no problem leaving you behind for a beach trip.


----------



## mswiginton (Apr 6, 2007)

I may be too late to contribute, but, MamaLisa, follow your gut reaction! I would be right there with you with a resounding, "NO WAY!"


----------

