# In the event of a missle attack



## BelovedBird (Apr 5, 2002)

would you put more of your children in your car than were safely restrained? IE: You have a 5 seater which in normal circumstances you only put 5 people in, all properly restrained (lap/ shoulder belt, boosters, car seats), if missles started falling and you wanted to get somewhere safer would you put 6 people in the car? Lets say you "double belt" 2 kids who don't need boosters (over 9 yr./ 90 lbs.)?


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## WC_hapamama (Sep 19, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BelovedBird* 
would you put more of your children in your car than were safely restrained? IE: You have a 5 seater which in normal circumstances you only put 5 people in, all properly restrained (lap/ shoulder belt, boosters, car seats), if missles started falling and you wanted to get somewhere safer would you put 6 people in the car? Lets say you "double belt" 2 kids who don't need boosters (over 9 yr./ 90 lbs.)?

Yup, I would.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Missile attack, yes; Big Mac attack, no.


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## BelovedBird (Apr 5, 2002)

Now, just to let you all know where this topic came from. We are g-d willing returning home soon. Dh would like to get a car when we go home. Its mostly for his daily use because of his disability. So, because of cost it will have to be a 5 seater. He would probably take the bigger kids with him places and while the kids are in school we'd probably use it with the baby. But I wanted to just make clear with him that we would never, ever put 4 kids in the back seat in regukar circumstances. Of course when we made that agreeement we had to add the caveat of unless missles were falling or something. During the war in Northern Israel a katyusha missle from the second barage landed 10 feet from our front door. After listening to a few more barrages and attempting to stay in the bomb shelter with no running water and no toilets for a few hours we ordered a (very expensive) taxi for the 5 of us and another for 4 of Dh's students and left to Jerusalem. Yeah, I sat in the back with 3 kids, and we did not spend time buckling up before taking off.
Anyway, so I was curious what others think they would do.


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## BelovedBird (Apr 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
Missile attack, yes; Big Mac attack, no.

HUH?


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

In the case of any emergency that requires evacuation I would not hesitate to have more people in the car than belts. In that case the risk of NOT leaving outweighs the risk of having unrestrained passengers.


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## FancyD (Apr 22, 2005)

I voted 'haven't heard the BOOM, don't know'. I think it depends on what's going on. I don't object to getting the hell out, despite insufficient car seats.

We emigrated from N. Ireland when I was an infant, but I'm sure my parents thought about this a lot. If you gotta go, get flippin' gone.


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BelovedBird* 
HUH?

I think she just meant that she would only do it under extreme conditions.


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## Pumpkin_Pie (Oct 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DahliaRW* 
In the case of any emergency that requires evacuation I would not hesitate to have more people in the car than belts. In that case the risk of NOT leaving outweighs the risk of having unrestrained passengers.









:


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *North_Of_60* 
I think she just meant that she would only do it under extreme conditions.

Yes, that's it. I consider having unrestrained passengers extremely dangerous, but if what we were fleeing was even more dangerous, I would choose the less dangerous option.

The question was also "more of your kids in your car than could be safely restrained". I'm a pretty big believer in never say never, but I cannot imagine that I would ever have more children than I could safely transport.


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## chantald (Oct 26, 2004)

I would not hesitate to pile as many people in the car as possible to evacuate in an emergency where the risk of staying outweighs the risk of having that many in the car unrestrained.

Hopefully it will never happen.. although if missiles fall here, due to our proximity to major ametro area and one having already been a target.. and to nuclear power plants.. any missiles that fell would probably be nuclear and then the whole thing would be a moot point


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## goodheartedmama (Feb 1, 2007)

Yes. It's a circumstance where you weight the risks and benefits. The risk is much bigger for staying.


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## elmh23 (Jul 1, 2004)

Hubby and I have had this conversation. We decided we'd take everyone we could, including our elderly neighbors. We have a mini-van so in the worst case scenario we'd pull out all the seats and stuff it silly.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DahliaRW* 
In the case of any emergency that requires evacuation I would not hesitate to have more people in the car than belts. In that case the risk of NOT leaving outweighs the risk of having unrestrained passengers.









:

I pray that nobody ever needs to make this kind of choice again!


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## want2bmoms (Feb 8, 2008)

I would stuff everyone I could into that car, and I wouldn't even think about buckling, put the kids in, all the necessities I could stuff in, and get out of there faster than you can say go. Frankly, at that point a bomb seems to be your biggest issue, and, honestly, I'm not thinking a seatbelt would help you there.

edit:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BelovedBird* 
would you put more of your children in your car than were safely restrained? IE: You have a 5 seater which in normal circumstances you only put 5 people in, all properly restrained (lap/ shoulder belt, boosters, car seats), if missles started falling and you wanted to get somewhere safer would you put 6 people in the car? Lets say you "double belt" 2 kids who don't need boosters (over 9 yr./ 90 lbs.)?


a)I would toss the carseats for the space - then stuff everyone I could fit into the car, friends, neighbors, elderly person from the church, strangers infant???

b)it would actually be safer to put the bigger kids in the seats, with the little ones on adult laps - buckle the adults in, then put LO on their laps and lock wrists together. The force of having two people in one carseat is more deadly to the smaller person as now only their own weight, but that of the larger person is thrust onto their immature organs, causing more severe internal damage than may have been inflicted by not being buckled at all. (but first see c))

c)if you are really worried about this happening, could you get something like this: http://www.babyearth.com/baby-air-flight-vest.html it's not meant for driving, but it would help contain when you are already in a high-stress, low-safety situation


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## mamamelia (Apr 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BelovedBird* 
Now, just to let you all know where this topic came from. We are g-d willing returning home soon. Dh would like to get a car when we go home. Its mostly for his daily use because of his disability. So, because of cost it will have to be a 5 seater. He would probably take the bigger kids with him places and while the kids are in school we'd probably use it with the baby. But I wanted to just make clear with him that we would never, ever put 4 kids in the back seat in regukar circumstances. Of course when we made that agreeement we had to add the caveat of unless missles were falling or something. During the war in Northern Israel a katyusha missle from the second barage landed 10 feet from our front door. After listening to a few more barrages and attempting to stay in the bomb shelter with no running water and no toilets for a few hours we ordered a (very expensive) taxi for the 5 of us and another for 4 of Dh's students and left to Jerusalem. Yeah, I sat in the back with 3 kids, and we did not spend time buckling up before taking off.
Anyway, so I was curious what others think they would do.

i remember when that happened mama.







my sister was also close to bombs except she was in north lebanon - her children were terrified as any child would be. it was a very scary time for everyone. thankfully she is now here in australia.

yes i would not hesitate to have more people than seatbelts. funny enough, i was thinking of this last night and it came out of nowhere (since i live in australia and currently have no reason to fear missiles falling from the sky), so how odd to have seen this thread today.

here's to a safe and happy return for you and your family.


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## AllyRae (Dec 10, 2003)

If a missle hit small town Ohio where I live, I'd be stuffing as many people in the car as possible--all of my family, the elderly neighbors, etc. and getting them to safety. I would not really worry about carseats at that point because I'd be getting the heck out of dodge. I doubt I'd even want to waste time with the seatbelts because I'd want to get as many people as I could to a safer place (albiet, I have no idea where that would be--it's not one of those things that people think about in Ohio, thank heavens).

I'm pretty sure when things like that happens, anything you do in the spur of the moment to get your family safe is a good choice...


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## llamalluv (Aug 24, 2007)

I only have to go 1/3 mile to the closest bomb/fallout shelter, so yeah.


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## harrietsmama (Dec 10, 2001)

I put other, because I'm not sure what I would do. I already live very rurally and we would be an unlikely target. However if we still lived in Detroit, where everyone was reasonably terrified after 911 because it was home of the 'big three' auto makers, I probably would, and head for where I am now. I am 35 miles from the nearest major freeway, and a little more than 20 from a smaller freeway. I feel pretty safe here. We are only one mile from the nearest true bomb shelter if for some reason we were bombed, but I honestly can't imagine why someone would bomb our area. The major industry here is agricultural, veggies & fruit farms, dairy and meat, packaging and cold storage plants, and Gerber foods is about 15 miles away. Civilians would have to be the target, and we are very sparsely populated, so why would they pick us? Am I being naive?


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## Momily (Feb 15, 2007)

I'm not sure what I'd do, in the sense that from where I live I'm not positive that moving would be a safer choice than staying put in my particular area (e.g. I'm in the middle of a big city, if they're falling here they're almost certainly falling on the roads I'd take to safety), but yes, if I knew a safer place I wouldn't hesitate to take DS and as many neighbors as I could squeeze in.

I have forgone carseats in a situation where I felt it was a safest choice. When my DS was not quite 2 we went for a trip on the subway. I didn't bring a carseat or a stroller. While we were out he was running up and down a wheelchair ramp, fell, hit his head, went completely rigid and passed out. I called the pediatrician who said it was either a breathholding spell or a seizure and to get to an E.R. right away so we did. 6 hours later (about 1 a.m.) they released us. Thankfully it was a breatholding spell. By that point I was throwing up from the stress (it's just what I do when I'm stressed), and DS was in crazy, overtired, hyper toddler mode.

We lived in a neighborhood that got quite unsafe at night, and where I tried very hard to never come home after dark. My choices were to walk in the hospital's (not great) neighborhood with my arms full of flailing toddler, and then stand on a dark platform likely full of drunk people (the hospital is attached to a university, so plenty of students), throwing up (and making the ground around me slippery) while DS threw his weight around in my arms, and trying not to literally fall off the platform. And then to walk home an pray I didn't get mugged. Or to put him in a seatbelt beside me in a taxi and drive home (maybe 3 miles) fast. I chose the latter.


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## merpk (Dec 19, 2001)

In the event of a missile attack ... I'd leave out the car seats. You might even be able to fit in an elderly neighbor or a someone without a car if you don't put in the car seats.


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

If it was clear that leaving was the best and safest thing, and that we would be in danger by staying, then heck yeah. I'd be cramming people into the hatchback, to get them away as fast as I could.


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## Just1More (Jun 19, 2008)

Yeup, and I'd drive way faster than the legal speed limit, too.

I just have to throw this in here...

I was traveling once and looked up the seat belt laws for all the states I was traveling through and discovered that in the state of West Virginia, your children only have to be in seat belts "if there are enough available seats". So, basically, if you stuff your car like a clown car, and there aren't any more seats, it's perfectly acceptable for your kids to ride on someone's lap, etc. I just found that so bizarre.

But, I suppose the point in all this is that safe is relative. I would do all sorts of things I wouldn't normally choose to do in light of danger. Most people do.


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## Phoenix_Rising (Jun 27, 2005)

I voted "yes, for sure". And I wouldn't even think twice about it in this situation.


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

I've never been in that situation and pray I never have to be, but do you really want to try and outrun a missle? I guess if you knew an attack was definitely going to happen, that's different. Again, I'm sheltered and never had to go through that so I don't know.


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## BelovedBird (Apr 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thepeach80* 
I've never been in that situation and pray I never have to be, but do you really want to try and outrun a missle? I guess if you knew an attack was definitely going to happen, that's different. Again, I'm sheltered and never had to go through that so I don't know.

I guess you just don't understand. We weren't trying to outrun a specific missle. we were just getting away from a constant barrage of missles hitting our area (it continued for over 5 week), after we were very nearly hit by one.


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## bobandjess99 (Aug 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BelovedBird* 
So, because of cost it will have to be a 5 seater. He would probably take the bigger kids with him places and while the kids are in school we'd probably use it with the baby. But I wanted to just make clear with him that we would never, ever do.


This confuses me, as used minivans (other than the big name ones) have such low resale values for the most part that you can almost always find used minivans for less than used cars??? Just look in any paper....you can get cheapo minivans all the time...


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## BelovedBird (Apr 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bobandjess99* 
This confuses me, as used minivans (other than the big name ones) have such low resale values for the most part that you can almost always find used minivans for less than used cars??? Just look in any paper....you can get cheapo minivans all the time...

Not. See for yourself: http://www.yad2.co.il/Cars/Car.php
Anyway, at 10$ a gallon the gas cost of a bigger car makes it much more expensive to drive.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bobandjess99* 
This confuses me, as used minivans (other than the big name ones) have such low resale values for the most part that you can almost always find used minivans for less than used cars??? Just look in any paper....you can get cheapo minivans all the time...

But it might be different in Israel. She's not exactly worried about outrunning missles in NYC.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

We were looking at used cars, and I couldn't find a used minivan cheaper than a car either.


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## Collinsky (Jul 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
Missile attack, yes; Big Mac attack, no.









:


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## BelovedBird (Apr 5, 2002)

Here are listings for used Kia Carnivals (in N. America is it called Sedona) in Israel: http://www.yad2.co.il/Cars/Car.php?A...romHand=&Hand=

Notice the year on them. (a 2001= 60,000 shekel)

The shekel is about 3.4 times the dollar.


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## BelovedBird (Apr 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Collinsky* 







:

Wow, is it fun to mock a serious thread?


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

We understand price constraints, trust us, most of us are there! Our concern is that one time you or DH want to take everyone somewhere and you just can't b/c there's not enough room, but you choose to anyway. I know nothing of the car market in Israel, but I know we bought our van brand new (Dodge) for $16K. I found Kia to be one of the more expensive brands when we were van shopping, but again, I don't know what you have available there.


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## BelovedBird (Apr 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thepeach80* 
Our concern is that one time you or DH want to take everyone somewhere and you just can't b/c there's not enough room, but you choose to anyway.

Excuse you. I said I'm not choosing to anyway.
Who is the "our"?







Is that like the "royal we"??








Is there a secret forum discussing me?







:
Are they starting a fundraising drive?








Thank you for your "concern". As I said, it is much more expensive to get a minivan. If you doubt me go look for yourself. I gave you the link.


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## FancyD (Apr 22, 2005)

Man, if I was being bombed, I would cram everyone I could into whatever freakin' vehicle I had and get #@*& out.








BB


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

I'm sorry you're obviously feeling attacked, some of us are trying to give other options that may help you. I just gave what we paid for our van and said I didn't know what your options were, I'm just assuming there are more options than Kia. I have never been in your shoes, I'm not pretending to have been or to even know what I would do, I'll stop talking now.


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## BelovedBird (Apr 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thepeach80* 
I'll stop talking now.

Since you're not responding to the actual content of the thread that's probably a good idea.


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## bobandjess99 (Aug 1, 2005)

sorry...sadly, i didnt realize she wasnt in the US.
*blushes*


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## aaronsmom (Jan 22, 2007)

Missile attack/any sort of attack? Carseats and seatbelts would be the last thing on my mind!


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## want2bmoms (Feb 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thepeach80* 
We understand price constraints, trust us, most of us are there! Our concern is that one time you or DH want to take everyone somewhere and you just can't b/c there's not enough room, but you choose to anyway. I know nothing of the car market in Israel, but I know we bought our van brand new (Dodge) for $16K. I found Kia to be one of the more expensive brands when we were van shopping, but again, I don't know what you have available there.









that's an interseting statement considering what the OP said. especially considering that if they don't already own a car, they probably know how to get where they want to get *without* one, even if it requires taking the whole family.

Quote:

Its mostly for his daily use because of his disability. So, because of cost it will have to be a 5 seater. He would probably take the bigger kids with him places and while the kids are in school we'd probably use it with the baby. But I wanted to just make clear with him that *we would never, ever put 4 kids in the back seat in regular circumstances*.
additionally, if DH is in an electric wheelchair, the biggest vehicle they could get would still only have FIVE (ok, actually four, but space for a wheelchair to park) seats.

******and now I see that in the time it took me to write this it was already reponded to, sorry to beat a dead horse.


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## merpk (Dec 19, 2001)

Totally off-topic, I know, but can't help myself. We bought a used 2001 Kia Caravan when we got here in 2006 ... with dollars, actually (back when people actually liked getting dollars







... it was something like 4.5 shekel to the dollar then) for $16,000.

A new car here is at least double, if not triple, the price of that same new car in the US. And the cost of gas here is also more than double the cost there. So it's kind of not helpful to speculate on it with US prices in mind ...

We're moving tomorrow. I'll go back to packing now.


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## LookMommy! (Jun 16, 2002)

Actually, given the miniscule number of actual deaths by missle attacks in Northern Israel in the last war, versus the number of deaths due to car crashes every single day in Israel, I'm not sure your considerations are rational. I'll see if I can look up the statistics...

During the war two summers ago, we were evacuated from Hadera after 3 missle attacks on our camp (DH was director) and got 500 campers and counsellors organized onto buses within a few hours. The only time my kids ever rode a bus on Sabbath -- it made a big impression.


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## llamalluv (Aug 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LookMommy!* 
Actually, given the miniscule number of actual deaths by missle attacks in Northern Israel in the last war, versus the number of deaths due to car crashes every single day in Israel, I'm not sure your considerations are rational. I'll see if I can look up the statistics...


She's not comparing the two the same way that you are. She's comparing the odds of dying in a missile attack *when misses are being lobbed in her neighborhood*, vs. dying in a car crash leaving *when missiles are being lobbed into her neighborhood*. Very different numbers and very different circumstances than "of all the Israeli in all the nation".


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## BelovedBird (Apr 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LookMommy!* 
Actually, given the miniscule number of actual deaths by missle attacks in Northern Israel in the last war, versus the number of deaths due to car crashes every single day in Israel, I'm not sure your considerations are rational. I'll see if I can look up the statistics...


I'm quite sure that death wasn't our only cheshbon. In the barrage that almost hit us one man died 2 blocks from my house and a little further away an entire family was sent to the hospital one child in a coma. You have no idea.
Your post was ridiculous considering the reality of what happens when actual katyushas are actually touching down all around you. .


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BelovedBird* 
I'm quite sure that death wasn't our only cheshbon. In the barrage that almost hit us one man died 2 blocks from my house and a little further away an entire family was sent to the hospital one child in a coma. You have no idea.
Your post was ridiculous considering the reality of what happens when actual katyushas are actually touching down all around you. .


I can't even imagine living in a place where yo have to worry about missiles! So scary. I wish you well, I hope your neighborhood stays safe and you don't have to actually use this scenario.


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