# What "green" or "organic" companies do you avoid?



## MrsMike (Aug 4, 2006)

I know people avoid Horizon because they are questionable. What other companies that claim to be green or organic do you avoid? Why?


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## janasmama (Feb 8, 2005)

barbara's Bakery (found in most health food stores) isn't really that great. I can't name them off hand but they put some crappy ingredients in their food.

I'm always iffy of the mainstream brands that pop up with some organic label. I like to stick with eating seasonal veggies and buying them from our wonderful local farm, we buy grass fed beef from the same farm that some friends of ours raises and then I have my main brands that I buy like EnviroKids cereal or Kashi, Cascadian Farms, etc.


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## urchin_grey (Sep 26, 2006)

Oh no, what's wrong with Horizon?









Personally, I'm not a fan of Method. I got all excited when I heard they were making a baby care line but they went and put SLS in everything.







:


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## Vancouver Mommy (Aug 15, 2007)

If you look into the corporate "families" of most of the natural/organic brands you will find that the vast majority of them are owned by enormous mainstream pesticide lovin', gmo promoting food companies that are full of trans fats and high fructose corn syrup.


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

:


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## pokeyrin (Apr 3, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vancouver Mommy* 
If you look into the corporate "families" of most of the natural/organic brands you will find that the vast majority of them are owned by enormous mainstream pesticide lovin', gmo promoting food companies that are full of trans fats and high fructose corn syrup.

Completely agree Vancouver Mommy, it's rather astounding to realize that it's quite difficult to purchase anything without it being owned by some corporate giant. I really try to support local and small businesses whenever I can.

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but here's a site I came across awhile ago if you want to know who owns who:

http://www.cornucopia.org/images/Who...ChartAug06.pdf







:

And if you're worried about what goes in your food, make sure you read, read, read labels. Even some companies that are supposed to be organic and natural still put poo-poo stuff in their foods.

If you're interested in a company's track record when it comes to being environmentally and socially responsible, Co-op America's website also gives you a report on many large companies http://www.coopamerica.org/programs/rs/

I recently found out that Burt's Bees was bought by The Clorox Company







: and so I'm giving them up.


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## Parthenia (Dec 12, 2001)

While I don't think they're bad in any sense, I avoid Frontier, because I can get pretty much everything they sell from a locally owned herb shop, where the herbs are fresher, and I get to hang out with the owner and chat.

Rule of thumb for me is I'll buy it from a locally owned place first.


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## koru (Sep 7, 2006)

Burt's Bees was recently bought out by Clorox.







I don't know much about the Clorox company but I can only imagine. Anyone have the scoop on Clorox? I've used Burt's Bees on all 3 of my kids & the smell of their lotion brings back so many memories....but I'm probably switching when this last bottle runs out. Tell me something wonderful about Clorox so I don't have to!


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## sunny*pa*mom (Mar 28, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pokeyrin* 
Not to rain on anyone's parade, but here's a site I came across awhile ago if you want to know who owns who:

http://www.cornucopia.org/images/Who...ChartAug06.pdf







:

Great link, thanks. We are finding the only way to be comfortable with our food is to eat whole and local. Now I need to research my health products...


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## askew (Jun 15, 2006)

Hain Celestial owns everyone it seems. They seem to own all the brands I use regularly. I see from the chart that they have a strategic alliance with Heinz. I wonder what that actually means.


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## stretchmark (Apr 10, 2003)

Wow, that chart really makes me want to go even more local!

I avoid seeds of change and horizon.


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## guestmama9924 (Mar 16, 2002)

I avoid companies that prey on environmentalist standards but are really just abusers such as the 'Sea Pearl' ( the killing of sponges to stuff up your yoni... people. Anyone who sells those is also off my list which is sad because Glad Rags WAS my favorite company!!


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## kewb (May 13, 2005)

I avoid Horizen. I no longer buy Burts Bees or Toms of Maine.


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## kapatasana (Apr 5, 2008)

Cascadian farms. Owned by general mills (I believe correct me if I'm wrong), but the main reason I avoid is I just don't like the taste/quality of their products.


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## utopia760 (Feb 7, 2007)

OH MY GOSH thos &%^*^$


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## jadekat (Jun 25, 2007)

Thanks for the link. Subbing


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## xekomaya (Apr 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kapatasana* 
Cascadian farms. Owned by general mills (I believe correct me if I'm wrong), but the main reason I avoid is I just don't like the taste/quality of their products.

yep the are, I avoid them too.. but I do love their honey o's :-x Also Tom's b/c of their SLS, except DH loves their deodorant and thats the most natural one he'll use. Also Method - which is sad since its so available, but they don't really disclose their ingredients, & have some questionable things including fragrance.


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## pokeyrin (Apr 3, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunny*pa*mom* 
Great link, thanks. We are finding the only way to be comfortable with our food is to eat whole and local. Now I need to research my health products...

I completely agree that the only way to be comfortable is to eat whole and local. We just joined a local CSA that starts this June and I am really excited about it.


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## pokeyrin (Apr 3, 2008)

By the way I almost forgot.

There is also the Enviromental Working Group's cosmetic safety database: http://www.cosmeticsdatabase.com/index.php?nothanks=1

Do make sure you read through the all the ingredients of a product you are looking up and just don't take a low hazard rating at face value. Certain ingredients you may not like having in your products may be considered a low hazard.

Interestingly quite a few of Burt's Bees products ranked higher on hazards due to fragrance and natural unspecified flavors they stick in their products. And there are definitely certain Burt's products I just can't use because of the strong fragrance.


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## CameronsMama (Apr 2, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *koru* 
Burt's Bees was recently bought out by Clorox.







I don't know much about the Clorox company but I can only imagine. Anyone have the scoop on Clorox? I've used Burt's Bees on all 3 of my kids & the smell of their lotion brings back so many memories....but I'm probably switching when this last bottle runs out. Tell me something wonderful about Clorox so I don't have to!

I don't think there is anything wonderful about clorox. I'm pretty sure there isn't even enything decent we could say about Clorox. It's so sad to see these huge monster corporations eating up the smaller good companies- rumor has it most of them (Burt's Bees, Tom's, etc) were bullied into selling, too!


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## prana (Sep 27, 2004)

Clorox "green works". Horizon. Kraft "organic".

Stick with as local as possible. Go for organic companies that have been around for a while and have a commitment to quality products and environmental sustainability.

Live simply.







:


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## bright_eyes (Dec 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xekomaya* 
yep the are, I avoid them too.. but I do love their honey o's :-x Also Tom's b/c of their SLS, except DH loves their deodorant and thats the most natural one he'll use. Also Method - which is sad since its so available, but they don't really disclose their ingredients, & have some questionable things including fragrance.


What's wrong with SLS? What is it? Is that the only thing that makes tom's bad?


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## barose (Dec 6, 2006)

Toms
Burts Bees
Jason
Horizon
Most things that claim to be UDSA certified though I do make exceptions when I dont have a choice (ie traveling with limited options)

There are also a few other companies, but cant think of them right now.


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## moderngal (Jun 7, 2006)

Why Seeds of Change?

We avoid Horizon. I really like a lot of the Burt's Bees products, but I am cutting back on them now that Clorox has bought them. Same with Tom's of Maine (Colgate has them.) I also avoid the organic versions of more mainstream brands like Kraft, Heinz, etc...

We're also trying to buy more local brands- even ones that aren't necessarily organic. At my favorite local farmstand, they have a "chemical free" sign out for a lot of products we buy. The farms are too small to be able to afford the certified organic label, but their products are essentially organic.

Quote:

Go for organic companies that have been around for a while and have a commitment to quality products and environmental sustainability.








:


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## Snow~Pea (Oct 20, 2007)

Yah, um ... Clorox "green works". Isn't that an oxymoron?


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## MrsMike (Aug 4, 2006)

Wow, this is so sad. I really need to dig around and get recs for good local companies around here. We're trying to buy more locally. I'm sad about Tom's of Maine. My dad has used their products for years. We use their toothpaste and I was using their deodorant until I realized it was making my pits smell like my husbands butt. I didn't know they were bought out buy Colgate.


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## jadekat (Jun 25, 2007)

What about Seventh Generation? I was thinking about switching to their TP (family cloth is not an option for us).


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## MrsMike (Aug 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jadekat* 
What about Seventh Generation? I was thinking about switching to their TP (family cloth is not an option for us).

My big gripe with them is their packaging. Their detergents and cleaners come in thick plastic bottles and their maxi pads come in plastic packing. I'm sure there are other options out there. I don't think they're an evil company, though. Their TP only comes in 2-ply so that may be a problem if you or your septic system prefer 1-ply.


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## alysmommy2004 (Jun 23, 2006)

I mainly avoid Horizon. We don't consume too many food products from big corps b/c we buy a lot of local produce and meat. Being GF we're limited on what prepackaged items we can eat. I'm sooo bummed about Burt's Bees though, for us they are local. Fortunately I have found a natural soap company even closer, and they have a year round booth at our farmer's market.


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## olliepop (Jun 26, 2007)

Quote:

What's wrong with SLS? What is it? Is that the only thing that makes tom's bad?
I got the following from the Tom's website:
*What is it?*
Sodium lauryl sulfate (SLS) is a foaming agent naturally derived from coconut and/or palm kernel oil. SLS has a long history of safe use in a variety of consumer personal care products.
*What does it do?*
We use SLS in our toothpaste to properly disperse the ingredients and ensure easy rinsing.
*What are the alternatives?*
SLS is not the only foaming or dispersal agent available, but we believe it is the best choice due to its long history of safe use, its lack of odor or taste, and its low level of concentration in our products.
For those of our consumers who prefer to use a toothpaste without SLS, we also offer a line of SLS-free toothpastes which use glycyrrhizin, derived from licorice root, to foam and disperse ingredients:

They also said:

*What are the risks?*
We are well aware of the widespread Internet rumors regarding SLS and its use in shampoos, toothpaste, and other products. At Tom's we are concerned about the safety and efficacy of our products, so we take these rumors seriously. Specifically, we have heard claims that SLS is linked to cancer, cataracts, liver or kidney damage, and other maladies. These widespread rumors have been investigated by respected publications such as _The Washington Post_ and The _Berkeley Wellness Newsletter_, both of which have called them a "sham" and a "hoax." The American Cancer Society has also created an information page debunking the claims. So rampant are these rumors that they are even addressed on the Urban Legends website, which provides additional reputable sources of information about SLS research.
We, too, have researched these claims extensively and have found them to be completely unsubstantiated. As formulated for cosmetic use, SLS has not been found to cause cancer in any recognized scientific research studies. When used in our toothpaste, SLS has limited contact with the gums and is then rinsed out.


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## Kiddoson (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kewb* 
I avoid Horizen. I no longer buy Burts Bees or Toms of Maine.

why toms of maine? they rate ok @ www.cosmeticdatabase.com
And I got a sample that had a flyer with the owners on it... Tom and Kate..? is this a lie?


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## babblingbrook (Dec 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *barose* 

Jason

I'm curious about this one!


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## anne1140 (Apr 10, 2007)

Why Horizon? This is the only organic dairy that I've been able to find in my town.

I understand what you guys are saying, and if you do have the options to buy locally, that's awesome. I don't, however. I live in a small town with a K-mart, Kroger, Marsh, and Aldi, and that's it. I don't really have many options. I think that buying Horizon, Tom's, and Burt's Bees is probably better than buying the regular stuff, especially since at least it doesn't have as many of the chemicals in it.

BTW: I will be looking out for a farmer's market this summer, but from what I've heard, our town doesn't have that, either.


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## janasmama (Feb 8, 2005)

You're right, I wouldn't worry about it too much. If we are too worried about buying from corporate companies most of would be left making our own clothes and farming during the summer and canning everything for winter eating.

It's just so hard....and food isn't the only thing...there are so many other things we buy that come from corporate companies. I do my best but I'm also staying home with my children. I feel that is more important right now than fighting a corporate battle with money we don't have.


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## JamSamMom (Apr 17, 2007)

janasmama said:


> You're right, I wouldn't worry about it too much. If we are too worried about buying from corporate companies most of would be left making our own clothes and farming during the summer and canning everything for winter eating.
> 
> It's just so hard....and food isn't the only thing...there are so many other things we buy that come from corporate companies. I do my best but I'm also staying home with my children. I feel that is more important right now than fighting a corporate battle with money we don't have.[/QUOTe
> 
> ...


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## Mamato3wild ponnie (Jan 6, 2007)

Any one try Shaklee products...i've been looking into buying thier Get Clean kit...i havent come upon any bad rep for them...any one hear anything?


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## janasmama (Feb 8, 2005)

I personally haven't but I'm always iffy about MLM anyway. I've asked for their ingredients and the lady didn't know and they don't post anything on their site that I have been able to find.

You could probably check out the WAH reviews at the bottom of the forum selections. I think I'm going to go do that now.


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## Green Phoenix (May 17, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *janasmama* 
barbara's Bakery (found in most health food stores) isn't really that great. I can't name them off hand but they put some crappy ingredients in their food.


I actually buy/look for Barbara's Bakery because they have very limited ingredients and not a lot of "crap", IMO -- if you are going to buy processed food, that is. The Puffins cereal contains:

*Yellow Corn Flour, Corn Bran Flour, Unsulphured Molasses, Oat Flour, Expeller Pressed High Oleic Oil (Canola and/or Sunflower), Salt, Baking Soda, Natural Vitamn E (Mixed Tocopherols [Soy] Added To Maintain Freshness), Vitamin C.*

Pretty good for a processed cereal! I am not huge on the flour or the salt -- and it is not organic, but other than that, it seems pretty good. I am an avid label reader, so I am curious as to what you avoid in their products?


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## PGNPORTLAND (Jul 9, 2005)

I'm sad about the Seeds of Change thing. I just "discovered" them and I really like their rice mixes and salad dressings.

I'd like to know about Jason too....

Is California baby still safe?


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## Meems (Jan 8, 2007)

this is so depressing. i live in a tiny community w/ no big chains, except food lion, but i usually shop at our local market. our market has organic produce that i buy for DD but it comes from PA. (~350 miles from here!)... i feel like i'd rather support organic company's than the regular ones, but oh man, why is everything so corrupt?! i guess i could ask our market to sell some other brand of org milk, etc...


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## counterGOPI (Jan 22, 2005)

:


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## moderngal (Jun 7, 2006)

What is the issue with Seeds of Change??? I googled and couldnt find anything.


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## mrs_mandolini (Feb 23, 2007)

Yes, what IS the problem with seeds of change? They do AMAZING work with seeds!


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## lunarmomma (Nov 18, 2001)

If you look at the chart that is given as a link on page one, it shows that Seeds of Change is owned by M&M?/Mars since 1997.
That DOES suck! Also one of my favorites, Dagoba chocolate was bought by Hershey, a year or so ago....
I guess the money from the buyout is irresistible.


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## moderngal (Jun 7, 2006)

Quote:

it shows that Seeds of Change is owned by M&M?/Mars since 1997.
Oh NOOOO!!







that makes me so sad. I really liked their products, but I can't support them knowing that.


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## jadekat (Jun 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PGNPORTLAND* 
Is California baby still safe?

I hope so. I looooove their products!


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## marlyninla (Nov 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lunarmomma* 
If you look at the chart that is given as a link on page one, it shows that Seeds of Change is owned by M&M?/Mars since 1997.
That DOES suck! Also one of my favorites, Dagoba chocolate was bought by Hershey, a year or so ago....
I guess the money from the buyout is irresistible.

And do we know that M&M /Mars is a bad company? I'm not saying they are not, but are we just concluding that because they are big, they are bad? I don't want my children living on, or really ever eating, their candy, or probably other products (I don't know what all they make -- I dont' buy any processed stuff) and maybe the fact that they manufacture such "unhealthy" stuff makes them evil in some people's minds, but not mine. What do we know about their labor standards, fair trade minded-ness, etc, environmental consciousnes? Maybe they are all bad but I have not researched that; if someone has, share the info. If a large company gets involved in a great project like Seeds of Change, is that not a good thing? Could it not signal a change in corporate policy? I am as skeptical as the next person about things like Clorox going green -- I think their new line and the purchase of Burt's Bees are window dressings designed to hide their chlrorine propogating ways and to take advantage of the trendiness of green-ness. Do I think they should voluntarily take chlrorine bleach off the market? Hmm, no. I think we should become educated enough not to buy it. Or to eat M&M's. I guess my point is that I don't fault companies for making products that I don't want or think are bad when there are plenty of other people who DO want them and think they are good. Banning things is too big brother for me. I do expect companies to be responsible in their manufacturing, supply, labor, disposal, and community education policies. Is M&M/Mars not? Back to my original question, is the point here that BIG = BAD? I am a major fan of buying local, supporting community business, avoiding chains, etc but I'm not sure the world can run, and everybody get fed (okay, I know not everyone is getting fed) that way. To some extent I think big conglomerates are a given. And having those companies respond to the public desire for organic, natural, whole products produced fairly, sustainably, responsibly is a GOOD THING. The fact that these companies are at least making the products we want available via their distribution chains is a positive. No????

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mamato3wild ponnie* 
Any one try Shaklee products...i've been looking into buying thier Get Clean kit...i havent come upon any bad rep for them...any one hear anything?

I love the Shaklee Get Clean products. The dishwasher soap and dish detergent are amazing. So is the laundry stuff. The all purpose cleaner is also a winner -- I use it half the time and my homemade vinegar stuff the other half. It is hard to get info on what's in the products and that is a complaint of mine. I can tell you that the products use a combination of enzymatic cleaners and oxidizers. I have an email somewhere that has more details from a friend who did dig up the info -- I'll try to find it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *babblingbrook* 
I'm curious about this one!

This was about Jason. The only thing I know is that a lot of people are mad at Jason and other "natural" or "organic" health and beauty products because they are not ALL naturual or organic. The use of those terms for beauty products is less regulated than it is for food. Jason products don't claim to be all organic -- in fact they give you the percentage organic on their labels. The labels tell you what's in them. If you don't like the ingredients, don't use the products. But I don't think Jason is being deceptive, personally. And I like the products. I don't know if people have other issues with them -- I would be curious to know if so. Nothing I know so far has turned me off but maybe if I knew more I would be turned off.

I don't know if anyone else is noticing but there is a sort of information revolution going on right now. Sites like MDC are part of it. We are becoming better and better informed consumers. We are learning, researching, and sharing info in a way I have never seen consumers do before. Hopefully this will lead to us all making better choices and forcing changes on manufacturers and distributors. Keep the info flowing ladies!


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## moderngal (Jun 7, 2006)

Quote:

And do we know that M&M /Mars is a bad company?
IMO, yes. They still test on animals.
http://www.foodnavigator-usa.com/new...animal-testing
There is a really disturbing video that goes along with it.


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## emski4379 (Aug 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alysmommy2004* 
I mainly avoid Horizon. We don't consume too many food products from big corps b/c we buy a lot of local produce and meat. Being GF we're limited on what prepackaged items we can eat. I'm sooo bummed about Burt's Bees though, for us they are local. Fortunately I have found a natural soap company even closer, and they have a year round booth at our farmer's market.

What local soap company are you referring to? I live in NC as well.


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## newclementine (Jan 23, 2008)

did I miss it? What's wrong with Horizon? I would really like to know the facts, if anyone can share them. This is the only organic option we can buy sometimes.


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## newclementine (Jan 23, 2008)

and organic or non bovone growth hormone contaminated milk is sooooo important !


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## prescottchels (Jun 8, 2007)

Someone up the line here was asking about SLS and Tom's products, and though they derive their SLS from coconut, conventional brands do not and it IS linked to cancer and skin irritation, etc and because I've never seen documentation (even though I've looked) that says that naturally derived SLS is safe as opposed to it's unnaturally derived cousin I don't use Tom's products or any others that use SLS or SLES.
I looked up California Baby products on their website and they only list what's NOT in their products which sounds good, but it's not good enough for super picky me. I want a list of what's actually in there, ykwim...? Maybe somebody out there who has their products at home could post the ingredients for feedback....? Anything w/parabens, or propylene glycol is out for me.
I don't use Jason or other personal care products besides Aubrey Organics cuz all the others we have at our local healthfood store use artificial preservatives and other yucky things-see above, even the ones that say they're organic so make sure you read those labels!


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## leerypolyp (Feb 22, 2005)

Some California Baby products have parabens. Most don't.

With Horizon, I'd say if they're absolutely your only option, they're better than conventional. The problem with them, in a nutshell, is that they run a sort of "warehouse organic" where the only difference between them and conventional is what's in the cows' feed. Really not adhering to the spirit of the law.

A lot of store brand organic milks are like Horizon, btw. Like Target's Archer Farms.

Rarely I will buy a Horizon product...because where else are you gonna get organic American cheese?







:


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## Venice Mamacita (Dec 24, 2003)

Hi All ~ Shaklee products are great -- expensive, but very concentrated so they last a long time. I've used their cleaning products all my adult life, and actually grew up with them -- they're one of the "original" green companies, still family-owned, I believe.

California Baby is even better than it was when DS was born (he's now 5). They used to have the tiniest smidgin (1/10th of 1%) of paraben as a preservative, but removed it several years back. They have a fragrance-free Super Sensitive line if lavender and other essential oils bother you. We're huge fans of the company. Here's a list from their Tea Tree & Lavender Shampoo & Bodywash:
_
"100% Botanically-based. No SLS or DEA. No nut oils, gluten, soy, oat or dairy. No numbing agents. No parabens, sodium benzoate, benzoic acid, benzyl alcohol or phenoxyethanol.

Our essential oils are guaranteed pesticide free. Our therapeutic Tea Tree is organically grown in Australia.

Ingredients: Purified water, aloe vera*, decyl polyglucose (extracts of corn, coconut and palm - non-invasive and extremely biodegradable), vitamin e*, evening primrose, vegetable glycerin, citrus seed extract, proprietary essential oil blend*, phosphollpid (emollient, coconut source), polyaminopropyl biguanide (extremely mild antimicrobial; no formaldehyde or formaldehyde donors, non-solvent and non-genotoxic).

* Organic or sustainable."_

HTH!


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## babblingbrook (Dec 6, 2007)

Thanks so much for the explanation on Jason.








Quote:


Originally Posted by *marlyninla* 

This was about Jason. The only thing I know is that a lot of people are mad at Jason and other "natural" or "organic" health and beauty products because they are not ALL naturual or organic. The use of those terms for beauty products is less regulated than it is for food. Jason products don't claim to be all organic -- in fact they give you the percentage organic on their labels. The labels tell you what's in them. If you don't like the ingredients, don't use the products. But I don't think Jason is being deceptive, personally. And I like the products. I don't know if people have other issues with them -- I would be curious to know if so. Nothing I know so far has turned me off but maybe if I knew more I would be turned off.


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## babblingbrook (Dec 6, 2007)

I just wanted to add that the Jason Baby Shampoo and Body Wash is a really nice face wash for adults, IME. You can wash off all your eye make up at the same time, and it makes my skin really soft.









**signed, not a Jason operative. Srsly.


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## Venice Mamacita (Dec 24, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leerypolyp* 
Rarely I will buy a Horizon product...because where else are you gonna get organic American cheese?







:









: A kid's gotta have grilled cheese, people.


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## schreiberwriter (Aug 3, 2005)

My opinion on the big companies going organic is that it's great (as long as their products really are healthy--fake green is a pet peeve). I vote with my dollars and they're paying attention. If organic foods can go mainstream, then more people benefit, not just the informed minority.


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## tommom (Jun 20, 2007)

I tend to agree, especially given the current food prices. In a utopian world, we would all be able to buy local, organic everything. Maybe someday. At the moment, I am purchasing whichever OG milk I have a coupon for (lately it's been Stonyfield which is local, sort of, for me)or my store brand. Please don't tell me there's anything wrong with them. It does seem to be a good thing to give people who might otherwise not be able to afford good products the option to do so, even if they have to buy them from Walmart or something, right? Sometimes I make myself crazy thinking about all this stuff.


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## newclementine (Jan 23, 2008)

I totally agree with the PP, if we aren't wealthy enough to buy all organic products then we have to pick and choose, we do what we can. It is so important for our bodies to buy organic or transitional food/cosmetic/cleaning items - and it's also important to support the companies/philosophies we believe in. Without a demand clorox or any of those other main stream corporations wouldn't have even ever considered launching a green line.


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## jadekat (Jun 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Venice Mamacita* 
Hi All ~ Shaklee products are great -- expensive, but very concentrated so they last a long time. I've used their cleaning products all my adult life, and actually grew up with them -- they're one of the "original" green companies, still family-owned, I believe.

California Baby is even better than it was when DS was born (he's now 5). They used to have the tiniest smidgin (1/10th of 1%) of paraben as a preservative, but removed it several years back. They have a fragrance-free Super Sensitive line if lavender and other essential oils bother you. We're huge fans of the company. Here's a list from their Tea Tree & Lavender Shampoo & Bodywash:
_
"100% Botanically-based. No SLS or DEA. No nut oils, gluten, soy, oat or dairy. No numbing agents. No parabens, sodium benzoate, benzoic acid, benzyl alcohol or phenoxyethanol.

Our essential oils are guaranteed pesticide free. Our therapeutic Tea Tree is organically grown in Australia.

Ingredients: Purified water, aloe vera*, decyl polyglucose (extracts of corn, coconut and palm - non-invasive and extremely biodegradable), vitamin e*, evening primrose, vegetable glycerin, citrus seed extract, proprietary essential oil blend*, phosphollpid (emollient, coconut source), polyaminopropyl biguanide (extremely mild antimicrobial; no formaldehyde or formaldehyde donors, non-solvent and non-genotoxic).

* Organic or sustainable."_

HTH!

I love the Super Sensitive bodywash! It has help my DC skin so much!


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

I'm another that buys localy whatever I possibly can, but don't worry about what I can't. I try to buy Organic valley milk over horizon/stoneyfield, but if thats all thats available, I certainly buy it over conventional!!

Theres something to said for avoiding large conglomerates... but theres also something to be said for supporting them when they TRY. As others have noted, just the fact that Clorox felt the need to even think about making a "green" label is impressive and shows how far we've come. I can't imagine them having done that even 3 or 4 years ago. But as green and organic becomes mainstream its only obvious that some big farms are going to have to too. All our food will probably never be grown on small family farms, certainly support them whenever you can, but if you don't have that option, don't worry. Seeds of Change is still one of our favorite seed companies around here, and I still eat at Chipotle even if McDonalds does own them!! (and yes, maybe mcdonalds gets my buisiness too, every now and then...







: )


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## leerypolyp (Feb 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Venice Mamacita* 







: A kid's gotta have grilled cheese, people.









Yes..._kid_...that's it, kid!

Heh heh heh.


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## alysmommy2004 (Jun 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *emski4379* 
What local soap company are you referring to? I live in NC as well.

Anders Natural Soap, they're right here in Raleigh. They have a booth in the indoor building at the Farmer's Market. I haven't tried anything yet, but it always smells so good when I walk by. HTH!


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## marlyninla (Nov 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moderngal* 
IMO, yes. They still test on animals.
http://www.foodnavigator-usa.com/new...animal-testing
There is a really disturbing video that goes along with it.

Very interesting. Thanks for the info.


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## BlessedOne (Apr 22, 2008)

I do not necessarily avoid the company....but I am not going to buy a particular product of a company anymore....

The new Palmolive biodegradeable dishwasher detergent does not clean worth diddly and it leaves a horrible white residue all over some of the dishes.......so basically you have to rewash them and hope they get clean.......therefore waisting water..........AND MY TIME!

I used the normal palmolive for a few years and did not mind it that much...but now they went to this new formula and I have not been happy with it. I just wish we could get the old stuff at the store...now I am going to have to find a new detergent. UGGG!!


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## BlessedOne (Apr 22, 2008)

yeah I typically do not buy something just because it says organic, green or all natural......I look at the contents and compare to other normal brands (many times they are the same). The companies are realizing that people are looking more into natural things now days than they have in some time, so they are throwing out all the words that captivate the clueless and making a ton of money on it in the mean time....because of course if it is healthy it must be more expensive....*rolls eyes*

I find the ones that have been around for years and years and have not changed....meaning they were natural then and are natural now......are the best and many times still pretty cheap.


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## Venice Mamacita (Dec 24, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlessedOne* 
The new Palmolive biodegradeable dishwasher detergent does not clean worth diddly and it leaves a horrible white residue all over some of the dishes.......so basically you have to rewash them and hope they get clean.......therefore waisting water..........AND MY TIME!

Ecover makes a great dishwasher tablet -- Consumer Reports rated it the best environmentally friendly one, and I agree completely. I'd used Trader Joe's powder before, which is CR's second best rated. Drugstore.com has it, and I stock up when it's on sale. Shaklee's powder is also very good, but more expensive. HTH!


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## Melilot Boffin (May 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vancouver Mommy* 
If you look into the corporate "families" of most of the natural/organic brands you will find that the vast majority of them are owned by enormous mainstream pesticide lovin', gmo promoting food companies that are full of trans fats and high fructose corn syrup.

Pssh. Alarmist.
















Quote:


Originally Posted by *pokeyrin* 
I recently found out that Burt's Bees was bought by The Clorox Company







: and so I'm giving them up.

On our latest trip to see family, both my sons informed my MIL and my cousin that their Burt's was now owned by Clorox.







: I love my kids.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Parthenia* 
While I don't think they're bad in any sense, I avoid Frontier, because I can get pretty much everything they sell from a locally owned herb shop, where the herbs are fresher, and I get to hang out with the owner and chat.

Also, their vegetarian broths are full of corn syrup solids.























Quote:


Originally Posted by *koru* 
Tell me something wonderful about Clorox so I don't have to!

Um, they make your whites whiter?









Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamadelbosque* 
(and yes, maybe mcdonalds gets my buisiness too, every now and then...







: )
















:







:







:


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## BlessedOne (Apr 22, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Venice Mamacita* 
Ecover makes a great dishwasher tablet -- Consumer Reports rated it the best environmentally friendly one, and I agree completely. I'd used Trader Joe's powder before, which is CR's second best rated. Drugstore.com has it, and I stock up when it's on sale. Shaklee's powder is also very good, but more expensive. HTH!

thanks!


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## jadekat (Jun 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlessedOne* 
I do not necessarily avoid the company....but I am not going to buy a particular product of a company anymore....

The new Palmolive biodegradeable dishwasher detergent does not clean worth diddly and it leaves a horrible white residue all over some of the dishes.......so basically you have to rewash them and hope they get clean.......therefore waisting water..........AND MY TIME!

I used the normal palmolive for a few years and did not mind it that much...but now they went to this new formula and I have not been happy with it. I just wish we could get the old stuff at the store...now I am going to have to find a new detergent. UGGG!!

I totally agree! I bought it and using about half the bottle and threw the rest in the trash!


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## Yo Becca (Apr 17, 2005)

We've noticed a big difference b/tw our last box of 7th Gen dishwashing powder and the one we just opened. Dh asked me last night, while unloading, "Did you use any soap?" and apparently had to clean half the dishes. We have 1.5 boxes of 7th gen left, then we'll switch to Ecover or TJ's.

I run a local Frontier coop. I would like to support my local stores, but going through Frontier means my "green" products cost the same as conventional, sometimes the same as generic conventional. We can't spend twice as much on cleaning products - the budget just doesn't allow it - so Frontier means I can use green toiletries and cleaning products, organic vanilla, fair trade coffee, etc.


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## Koalamom (Dec 27, 2007)

I avoid stonyfield because they bought out my favorite line brown cow and got rid of the organic line. Stonyfield just seems to commercial to me.


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## CorasMama (May 10, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluebirdmama1* 
I avoid stonyfield because they bought out my favorite line brown cow and got rid of the organic line. Stonyfield just seems to commercial to me.

Wow, I just finished a thing of brown cow yogurt! Imagine my surprise when I looked at it, and it no longer says organic! That really chaps my hide...







:


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## jadekat (Jun 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yo Becca* 
We've noticed a big difference b/tw our last box of 7th Gen dishwashing powder and the one we just opened. Dh asked me last night, while unloading, "Did you use any soap?" and apparently had to clean half the dishes. We have 1.5 boxes of 7th gen left, then we'll switch to Ecover or TJ's.

I run a local Frontier coop. I would like to support my local stores, but going through Frontier means my "green" products cost the same as conventional, sometimes the same as generic conventional. We can't spend twice as much on cleaning products - the budget just doesn't allow it - so Frontier means I can use green toiletries and cleaning products, organic vanilla, fair trade coffee, etc.

Thanks for the heads up about 7th Gen dishwashing powder. I was thinking about trying it but I'll try ecover instead. I also belong to a coop. I live out in the middle of nowhere and it's nice to save money (and gas!) on these things.


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## alysmommy2004 (Jun 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yo Becca* 
We've noticed a big difference b/tw our last box of 7th Gen dishwashing powder and the one we just opened. Dh asked me last night, while unloading, "Did you use any soap?" and apparently had to clean half the dishes. We have 1.5 boxes of 7th gen left, then we'll switch to Ecover or TJ's.


So it's not just my imagination? I swear 7th Gen dishwashing powder used to clean my dishes a lot better. I'm also thinking of switching to Ecover, so far I love all of their other products.


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## Toolip (Mar 7, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *koru* 
Burt's Bees was recently bought out by Clorox.







I don't know much about the Clorox company but I can only imagine. Anyone have the scoop on Clorox? I've used Burt's Bees on all 3 of my kids & the smell of their lotion brings back so many memories....but I'm probably switching when this last bottle runs out. Tell me something wonderful about Clorox so I don't have to!

Honestly, I think that you should just keep using it. I mean, now the profits are ultimately going to a corporation rather than a family business (which is a big bummer), but the products haven't changed... yet.

Maybe you have a great, local, organic, lotion maker but I'd say that's unlikely. So what are your other options?
Give up lotion and rub a locally grown organic avocado all over your face?
Try to find a better company?
Not likely. They are all being bought up.
It really depends on what you are worried about. Is is business practices? Product quality? Both?

I really think that you should indulge. I think that it is really great to be conscious and not in denial of the products and companies that you are supporting but I don't believe that living in guilt will make us any better.

On another note...

Here's how my priorities go for making purchases of anything:

Local _and_ organic whenever I can
Local
then just organic.

I really think that small and local is always better.

One more thought....

Wouldn't it be more productive (and a _much_ shorter list) to talk about the companies who are _good_ to buy from rather than the ones to avoid. I really curious if there are any that we would all agree are wholesome and ethical. Maybe someone could make a poll


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## pixiepunk (Mar 11, 2003)

Quote:

Maybe you have a great, local, organic, lotion maker but I'd say that's unlikely. So what are your other options?
Give up lotion and rub a locally grown organic avocado all over your face?
Try to find a better company?
Not likely. They are all being bought up.
It really depends on what you are worried about. Is is business practices? Product quality? Both?

I really think that you should indulge. I think that it is really great to be conscious and not in denial of the products and companies that you are supporting but I don't believe that living in guilt will make us any better.
ya see, this is the beauty of the internet. that great handmade place doesn't have to be local. it can be halfway across the US.

I personally won't do Burt's Bees anymore, and have recently fallen in love with every product i've tried so far from Oyin Handmade. they are a work at home family, their products are natural and made by hand, and the customer service is fantastic. i think they're based in California - certainly nowhere near where i live - but i'm more than happy to pay a bit of shipping and skip the 'convenience' of grabbing it locally to get a fantastic natural product and give my money to hard-working small businesses instead of Clorox Corporation.

now obviously it's not as cut-and-dried when you talk about food, since you can't order your organic milk over the internet (yet). so you either have those local choices or you don't. but when it comes to health and beauty products, i don't think there's any reason you can't avoid the stuff you want to avoid as long as you have an internet connection and a credit/debit card.


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## avendesora (Sep 23, 2004)

TJ's dishwashing detergent doesn't work that well for me. I do love ecover tablets though. I've found them for a good price through amazon (4.42/box, comes in a pack of 5.)

Aven


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## Toolip (Mar 7, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pixiepunk* 
ya see, this is the beauty of the internet. that great handmade place doesn't have to be local. it can be halfway across the US.

I personally won't do Burt's Bees anymore, and have recently fallen in love with every product i've tried so far from Oyin Handmade. they are a work at home family, their products are natural and made by hand, and the customer service is fantastic. i think they're based in California - certainly nowhere near where i live - but i'm more than happy to pay a bit of shipping and skip the 'convenience' of grabbing it locally to get a fantastic natural product and give my money to hard-working small businesses instead of Clorox Corporation.

now obviously it's not as cut-and-dried when you talk about food, since you can't order your organic milk over the internet (yet). so you either have those local choices or you don't. but when it comes to health and beauty products, i don't think there's any reason you can't avoid the stuff you want to avoid as long as you have an internet connection and a credit/debit card.


Local business still has advantages that you can't get going with an internet small business.

You are right though, that is does open a lot of doors


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## Yo Becca (Apr 17, 2005)

My beef with Burt's Bees is quality, but knowing they are owned by Clorox now just errodes my (former) loyalty despite quality issues. I love the plain lipbalm, but pretty much everything else i've tried is just not that good, IMO. I have been lusting after the milk and honey lotion b/c my hubby thinks it smells good (it smells like coconut, pretty strongly) - so I got some at long last....it's as thin as milk and not very moisturizing if you have dry skin. I literally got chapped skin this winter using that lotion daily. The conditioner...not very conditioning (i have dry, curly hair, I need good conditioner). I switched to Nature's Gate conditioner, it works great. i switched to Kiss My Face lotion, it works great.

I've had BB;s things I haven't loved int he past, but I kept giving them another try out of loyaty - but i won't be doing that anymore.

The business ethics are important to me, but I also need quality. i can't waste money on things that don't work like they should.


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## janasmama (Feb 8, 2005)

^ I like kiss my face also. They are still independent and they don't have parabens in their lotions.


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## pixiepunk (Mar 11, 2003)

Quote:

Local business still has advantages that you can't get going with an internet small business.

You are right though, that is does open a lot of doors
oh, absolutely. and i always buy local first and whenever it's possible. i'm in a really lucky position of living in an area where it's incredibly easy to buy great food locally (grassfed beef, freerange chicken and eggs, fresh local produce in season, etc.), i get organic raw milk so i don't have to deal with pasteurized organic, and i have access to a good number of local HFS's and even locally made homeopathics! i feel very lucky to have the kind of access that i do.

but if i didn't have that availability, and for the stuff i don't have local access to (like handmade soaps and stuff) i'd definitely go to the internet to get quality stuff from someone else's small independently owned business before i'd go to target and buy Burt's Bees or whatever. not that i'm a target snob, i shop there too, but those big box stores and large commercial brands are my last stop when i can't get what i need anywhere else.


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## Toolip (Mar 7, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *janasmama* 
^ I like *kiss my face* also. They are still independent and they don't have parabens in their lotions.

They are on the list of companies being sued (or pressured or some sort of action) by Dr. Bronners for false advertising of an organic product and not disclosing all ingredients.

I know Natures Gate is on the list too, I'll try to find the complete list.

It's a deal breaker for me. I'd rather use a conventional product that was being honest about what was in the product (which I know doesn't happen that often either)







:


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## Toolip (Mar 7, 2008)

Here is an article about it with the list of companies at the end:

http://www.walletmouth.com/2008/04/soapmaker-sues.html

I wish that I could find the list of products that are being targeted, anyone have that list?


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## greentara_mama (Apr 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pokeyrin* 
I completely agree that the only way to be comfortable is to eat whole and local. We just joined a local CSA that starts this June and I am really excited about it.

definitely local is best- and try to avoid all of the BIG companies. Eden is one of the few companies that still owns itself and has good ethics. Their products are USA grown- not from china like many of the cascadian farms, etc now!

For info try
http://www.localharvest.org/
http://www.foodroutes.org/howtobuylocal.jsp
http://www.slowfoodusa.org/index.html
http://www.biodynamics.com/csa.html


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