# 4 yo won't eat unless I feed him *UPDATE* post 46



## Bri'sgirl (Apr 4, 2009)

Is this normal? My youngest ds, who turned 4 in January, often refuses to eat unless I feed him. It's not like he doesn't like the food or isn't hungry. He just wants me to do the feeding. It's getting very frustrating, because my other 2 dc never did this past the age of 2 or younger. The meal it most often occurs with is breakfast, but can happen at any time of the day. I go as long as possible trying to make him eat by himself...up to an hour...but then, we have things to do. I can't have him go hungry and it turns into major arguments with crying (on his part) and yelling (on my part). How can I encourage him to feed himself? I've tried time outs, taking away special toys, talking with him about it, not going to special activities that were previously planned, etc.

I would love any advice!

Thanks!


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Feeding him? As in holding the spoon or fork and putting it to his mouth?


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## That Mom (Jun 8, 2010)

Do you sit with him while he eats? He may be making a play for your company or attention. I know that breakfast is not always a sit together family meal.

My kids have gone through some power struggles around food at around this age. With the feed me, procrastination issues I have had good luck with an egg timer. I just set between 10 and 20 minutes for the meal. I sit and eat with them. If they request assistance, I let them know that I am eating my own food. After the timer goes off, the meal is over. There are some immediate consequences of hungry and grumpy kids, but it doesn't last long (a few days). Kids will eat when they get hungry. This way little guy gets your attention, but not control of the meal or family schedule.

Interested to see what solutions other mamas have come up with.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I don't think it's "normal". But, it sounds like a typical run of the mill power/food struggle. Everybody has at least one food/power struggle before age five. What fun would it be if it was easy?

I bet your future daughter in law will appreciate it if you stopped spoon feeding him though.

In that same situation, I _THINK_ I would _probably_ stop feeding him immediately. It's my job to provide the food, prepare it, and put it on the table.. it's not my job to put it in his mouth. You actually CAN let him go hungry. He's probably not all that hungry. Kids can eat a surprisingly small amount of food and it's just enough for them.

But, instead, I'd either allow a decent amount of time to finish eating. If he wasn't interested, I'd put the plate on the counter for him to have a bite here and there if he wants. Or, I'd put out a few grapes and crackers to let him graze on later.

If I were needing to get a few things done and couldn't sit there and chat with him while he eats, I'd even let him take it to the coffee table and finish eating while he watched tv. (I'm not anti tv though..so, I don't have a problem with eating in front of the tv sometimes)

Most people don't like to eat alone. So, I can see how he'd like the company. But, you are both making this a power struggle. Parents almost never win a food/power struggle. Kids are amazingly strong and can hang in there longer than we can.


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## annethcz (Apr 1, 2004)

No, it's not normal. I would stop if I was you. Don't make food a battle. Set food out and if he's hungry, he'll eat. It make take a few days for him to get used to the new normal. In the meantime, don't nag him or beg him to eat. Just set the food out, and let him be.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

I actually started spoon feeding my ds around age 3 and through age 4. Never did it as a baby or toddler. But it turned out there were a lot of things he wouldn't eat because he hated getting food on his lips or fingers. With him, there were mild sensory issues behind wanting to be fed. As he got older, they have faded. He isn't as sensitive and he has better dexterity to feed himself neatly. What helped was preparing his food so he could feed himself more easily. I cut everything, didn't serve him saucy or messy foods. He'd even eat bread and butter cut up with a fork. I used to assume he wasn't hungry when he only ate a few bites of a slice of pizza. Then I realized he'd eat a lot more if I cut it into narrow strips that he could bite off more easily.

Maybe your guy just wants company. Maybe feeding himself is frustrating when he is tired or especially hungry. Maybe he'd feed himself if the food was presented differently or if different food was served. Maybe it started off as one of those things and has since turned into a power struggle...


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## honeybunmom (Jan 11, 2007)

My 4.5 year old can still get my husband to feed her. I've simply refused. She is the older of my two children. He continued to feed her beyond her displaying an ability to feed herself, but, I wouldn't play into it.


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## Bri'sgirl (Apr 4, 2009)

nextcommercial - yes, he wants me to hold the spoon/fork/sandwich/taco and put it to his mouth.

That Mom - I don't always have a chance to sit with him while he eats, unfortunately. I know I should probably make a better effort to do that. Part of his wanting to be babied comes from him being sick. He has asthma and has had a pretty hard time for the last couple weeks. This seems to make the meal struggles worse.

I do like the egg timer idea. I think I will give that a try, sit with him and let him know that I need to eat. If it's still a struggle after a week, I'll have to try something else.









Thanks!!


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## Bri'sgirl (Apr 4, 2009)

Gosh, I've got so many distractions that by the time I finished my response, several other people had responded!

Most of the time, he isn't eating by himself. The other two dc are eating with him. Today, he sat at the table for over an hour, not eating. But, I should probably figure out how to make time to eat with him, too. I don't usually eat breakfast, and when I do, I usually eat standing at the counter. I take a bite, go do something, come back and take another bite, etc.

He does have some sensory issues with food, like not liking it on his fingers or the outside of his lips. I cut up pizza, sandwiches, meats and other foods into smallish pieces that are easy to pick up. It's the foods like oatmeal, cereals, spagetti and soups that he wants me to feed him, mostly. But, sometimes it's the sandwiches or pizza... I try to make soups easier by serving it in cups, but I can't figure out how to serve the other things to make them easier to eat. And, the funny thing is, he will eat all of these by himself at times.

I know that it's mostly a power struggle. I will try some of these suggestions and hope for the best. It's just so frustrating when I have other things to get done and I'm fighting with a 4 yo. Argh!


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## bluebirdiemama (May 2, 2008)

My 3 yo ds does this, and I am certain it is to get my attention. I have to feed my 16 mo old occasionally, and he sometimes insists on having me do things for him that I would typically do for her.
I do not think it would be effective to put him in time out, or take away toys for this reason. I find I have to make the negative consequences more relevent to what the undesired behavior is. (totally not trying to be snarky, but no time to word this better). I agree with pp-er, put the food out, if he doesn't eat it well, he'll be hungry. He'll learn pretty quickly to do it himself. But, I would also sit with him during breakfast, because maybe he is feeling like he needs your attention at that time.


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## sarahr (Mar 29, 2007)

If I let my almost-4 year old get too hungry -- into the meltdown, tantrummy stage -- then she's too hungry to calm down enough to feed herself, but she'll happily let me feed her. I try to feed her part of the meal, just so she's not so starving. Or, better yet, give her food before it gets to that stage, but I'm not always that good.

So, could you try starting meal time 30 minutes earlier and see if that makes a difference?


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## lovesea (Mar 6, 2007)

I don't have any advice but I'm interested as have similar issues with my nearly 4 year old. He does it mainly at dinnertime. We always eat together and I stay at the table until he finishes. I have a dd, 18 months who feeds herself. DS often says he's too tired to feed himself so could I hel him. Seems like everyone is advising against this. How would you explain why you're not going to feed them.


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

I'd stop feeding him & give him 30-45minutes to eat. Then the food gets put away. My kids all went through a stage of not wanting to eat(or eat what we were having) so yeah there were days they went to bed hungry. The
stages didn't last that long.

Now if there were special needs involved then I'd do differnet things. The boy I work with is non-verbal & autistic. He had to be taught in kindergarten to eat(he was in K for 2 years). Apparently his older brother(also autistic but high functioning) also had to be taught to eat. they knew how to physically eat but they didn't understand when everyone sits down to eat lunch/snack that we eat too. They wouldn't feed him with a spoon or fork, but would put the food in their hands & then move their hands to their mouths.

The boy I work with had food cards he has to give me before he gets his sandwich/bar/juice. there are days(happening more & more often) where I have to physically take his hand put the card in his hand, have him hand it to me & then hand him his sandwhich & move it to his mouth. Next year our schedule is changing & we may end up doing it a little differently, but right now i leave right after lunch & he needs to be done eating before he's handed off.

The only times I put the food in his mouth is if it's taco day at school(very messy & he'll try to cram the entire thing in his mouth), subway day at school(same thing). I also do it because we get lettuce & tomato put on those. He won't eat fruits/veggies but I try to make him. If I don't feed it to him he'll put them out. He's learning to like lettuce.


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## mamaofthree (Jun 5, 2002)

oh my: egg timer really? please don't do that. it instills fear, over eating and eating too quickly. sorry my folks did that to us, it sucked. now i eat too fast and tend to over eat. what is the rush? it is better to eat slowly anyway, your body singles you to stop eating when your full before you over eat. 10 minutes to scarf down a meal is too quick.
as for spoon feeding your child... how long do you think this phase will last? if it usually breakfast maybe indulge it.... if you have the time to sit with him, why not?

h


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## karlin (Apr 8, 2004)

Have you tried a chart? He can fill in a star for everyday he feeds himself, and on the 7th day (or 10th or 3rd or whatever works), have a special reward like a trip to the park or a small toy. Charts have worked wonders for my ds.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

My son was like this at times at that age. He also couldn't dress himself, I thought I was going to have to get him a valet. He was my first so I guess that's why it didn't bother me. He stopped doing it by 4.5. Mostly I think it was because of his OCD tendencies. He especially insisted on help with things like yogurt or spaghetti anything with a potential for being messy. I think there are a whole lot of variants to "normal". and I would hesitate to label a child that young as being not normal.


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## wookie (Dec 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess* 
. I think there are a whole lot of variants to "normal". and I would hesitate to label a child that young as being not normal.











some of it is cultural so maybe that colours my response. i grew up in a culture where kids arent expected to be mini-adults. and parents are much more indulgent of what mnay be viewed as "dependent tendencies". Meaning independence is not seen as a positive quality, rather the opposite depending on the situation. anyway, so i feed my almost 4.5yo some of the time. i also get him dressed, help him buckle his carseat belts etc. all these things he can do himself but if he asks and i'm able to do them, i do







i figure he's growing up too fast anyway and won't want me to in a few years. i don't sweat it right now. that's how i was raised and i turned out okay.

i realise this won't be a popular opinion here but here it is.


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## StrawberryFields (Apr 6, 2005)

I disagree that it is "not normal." I have a 4.5 year old and a 2.5 year old and they both go through phases of wanting to be fed. I don't stress about it. I think they just want me to slow down and give them some extra attention. One thing I do is that I don't really set a time limit to mealtimes. I prepare it, we sit down and eat as a family. Dh & I linger around the table a little bit for the little ones who are still eating but eventually we clean up and go back to our evening. I leave the kids plates on the table until they go to bed.

Sometimes I even offer to help ds, if we are having something like burgers or subs it can be hard and clumsy for him to tried to hold and bite it. No big deal IMO. I doubt it means I'll be holding his tacos for him when he is 14 ;-)


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wookie* 









some of it is cultural so maybe that colours my response. i grew up in a culture where kids arent expected to be mini-adults. and parents are much more indulgent of what mnay be viewed as "dependent tendencies". Meaning independence is not seen as a positive quality, rather the opposite depending on the situation. anyway, so i feed my almost 4.5yo some of the time. i also get him dressed, help him buckle his carseat belts etc. all these things he can do himself but if he asks and i'm able to do them, i do







i figure he's growing up too fast anyway and won't want me to in a few years. i don't sweat it right now. that's how i was raised and i turned out okay.

i realise this won't be a popular opinion here but here it is.

Yeah that

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StrawberryFields* 
I disagree that it is "not normal." I have a 4.5 year old and a 2.5 year old and they both go through phases of wanting to be fed. I don't stress about it. I think they just want me to slow down and give them some extra attention. One thing I do is that I don't really set a time limit to mealtimes. I prepare it, we sit down and eat as a family. Dh & I linger around the table a little bit for the little ones who are still eating but eventually we clean up and go back to our evening. I leave the kids plates on the table until they go to bed.

Sometimes I even offer to help ds, if we are having something like burgers or subs it can be hard and clumsy for him to tried to hold and bite it. No big deal IMO. I doubt it means I'll be holding his tacos for him when he is 14 ;-)

and yeah that.


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

I guarantee you he will not starve himself. I am not saying what YOU should do but for me it just would not happen. I would tell my 4 year old that she was big enough to feed herself and then I would go about my business. If she wanted to scream and cry for 3 hours instead of feeding herself then so be it. If you never give in to it then it will stop. If you do it sometimes then he will keep throwing a fit because he knows sometimes it works.


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## ThisCat (Jun 19, 2010)

I completely agree with *artgoddess*, *wookie*, and *StrawberryFields*. I don't think there's anything abnormal about a child that age occasionally wanting to be fed.

While it's been a few months since the last time she asked, my 4 year old has requested that I feed her. I think for her it was a combination of things like seeing me feed her younger brother and wanting the same attention and having slightly perfectionist tendencies (which I consider completely within the bounds of "normal") and not wanting to make a mess.

I never made a big deal about it, and if I was able to at that time, I fed her. It never led to any dependancy on me to feed her. It was just not something I chose to make a big deal out of, and that seems to have been a good strategy for us.


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## childsplay (Sep 4, 2007)

He won't go hungry if you stop spoon/fork feeding him. He's a kid, he'll eat eventually. Right now though he's just got a good thing going on. I'd just tell him no, if he's hungry, there's his spoon/fork, enjoy. (But I'm a 'little' blunt)

If it's a cry for attention, how about reading a story, or having special talks during breakfast?


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## mamaofthree (Jun 5, 2002)

i guess i am still not seeing the big deal... letting a child cry for 3 hours because you can not be bothered to sit with them is over the top. where is the GD in that? instead of giving the child the attention they need, because 4 is still a little guy, ignoring them is offered? they are seen as manipulative, and trying to get you to do their bidding? what are these children or the spawn of satan? it seems to me that that is normal behavior of someone who is 4 and wants mom to be with him... isn't that our job as a parent?
and yes i have more then one, so i know it can be a challenge, but that is what being a mama is... caring for your kids in the good times and the more trying times.

h


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaofthree* 
i guess i am still not seeing the big deal... letting a child cry for 3 hours because you can not be bothered to sit with them is over the top. where is the GD in that? instead of giving the child the attention they need, because 4 is still a little guy, ignoring them is offered? they are seen as manipulative, and trying to get you to do their bidding? what are these children or the spawn of satan? it seems to me that that is normal behavior of someone who is 4 and wants mom to be with him... isn't that our job as a parent?
and yes i have more then one, so i know it can be a challenge, but that is what being a mama is... caring for your kids in the good times and the more trying times.

h

I don't see being a parent as catering to my child's every whim. If they cry for 3 hours its because they are CHOOSING to do so. This is not a 4 month old we are talking about, it's a 4 year old child. The child does not need to be fed and there is nothing to suggest the mother does not give the child attention. This is not a need, this is a want.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
I don't see being a parent as catering to my child's every whim. If they cry for 3 hours its because they are CHOOSING to do so. This is not a 4 month old we are talking about, it's a 4 year old child. The child does not need to be fed and there is nothing to suggest the mother does not give the child attention. This is not a need, this is a want.

I couldn't disagree more. Often time a four year olds wants are their needs. I'll do battle over wanting too much sugary juice, I'll do battle over not wanting to brush teeth, but asking me to feed them is not worthy of doing battle. No one said the child was getting no attention but it seemed that the child wanted/needed more.


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## ThisCat (Jun 19, 2010)

I honestly do not understand for the life of me what the harm is in feeding the kid. What are people afraid will happen? What is so wrong with indulging a child's "want" as long as there is not harm in it? I mean I won't let my daughter live off cupcakes because it would be detrimental to her health. But feed her? Sure. Sign me up. To not feed her when I am perfectly capable of doing so would be a conscious choice to engage in a power struggle OVER NOTHING. What good could come of that? Would it be to show her who's boss?


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## mamaofthree (Jun 5, 2002)

just because it is a want doesn't make it less valid. part of being a parent is taking care of their wants. or at least i thought it was. not every single one (like a pp stated no diet of only cupcakes etc) but feeding them? i can not imagine letting my child cry for three hours just to show them i could.

h


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## Grace and Granola (Oct 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bri'sgirl* 
How can I encourage him to feed himself? I've tried time outs, taking away special toys, talking with him about it, not going to special activities that were previously planned, etc.

I would love any advice!

Thanks!

If you're willing (as above) to try time outs, punishments, etc. I suggest allowing him to go hungry. He will be ok







It is a natural consequence to not feeding yourself. If I don't put the food in my mouth, I will be hungry. It will only take a time or two before he gets it. As long as you are providing him options for foods you know he can handle with his sensory issues, then I would feel fine with this approach. It might be hard at first, but he really needs to feed himself. I haven't "fed" my kids since they were 18 months old.

Also...as people are debating over whether or not you should meet your child's "wants"....consider what the want really is. Is it that your child really wants someone else to put the food in his mouth or is it that he wants to have some face time with mommy in the morning. I would guess it's the second. Try sitting next to him and having your morning coffee/juice with him. Say, "how about I sit with you while you have your breakfast." Maybe that's all he really wants.


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## StrawberryFields (Apr 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThisCat* 
I honestly do not understand for the life of me what the harm is in feeding the kid. What are people afraid will happen? What is so wrong with indulging a child's "want" as long as there is not harm in it? I mean I won't let my daughter live off cupcakes because it would be detrimental to her health. But feed her? Sure. Sign me up. To not feed her when I am perfectly capable of doing so would be a conscious choice to engage in a power struggle OVER NOTHING. What good could come of that? Would it be to show her who's boss?

This is pretty much how I feel about it. It is so not even on my radar to care about whether my 4.5 yo ds wants me to feed him. I am surprised I am in the minority on this thread because really, I am VERY no nonsense about parenting. Especially compared to other moms on MDC. I don't "do" messing around. But fighting over this seriously seems to me like turning something into a huge power struggle for no reason. Time outs, punishments, egg timers, hours of screaming and crying? If I am honestly honestly too busy I say hey, I can't feed you right now kiddo, I'm in the middle of doing laundry. And leave their plate on the table for the rest of the night. But otherwise, sure, whatever, I'll feed you. What good is to come from laying the smack down here, really? Other than, "Yay for you, you really showed that 4 year old who's boss!"

I am definitely not suggesting that a parent should follow behind their darling school aged child and spoon feed them every precious drop of applesauce his/her heart desires. Or that a parent should say "How high?" when the child demands jump. But in my house anyway, treating this whole thing as a non issue has made it just that--a non issue.


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## Bri'sgirl (Apr 4, 2009)

Wow, I did not mean to start anything with this! I really appreciate everyone's suggestions and thoughts on the matter.

TBH, I do feed him 90% of the time, when he asks. It's just that other 10% of the time that I just do not have the time to do it, that's when it becomes a problem. I'm sure I gave the wrong impression, but there are not hours of crying and screaming going on. The first 45 minutes is usually him playing with his food. It's the 30 minutes or so _after_ that when I just don't have the time, he starts to cry and I try to stay calm, but sometimes end up getting angry (and yelling or raising my voice). I always end up feeding him, in the end. I know I'm not perfect and a lot of you don't believe in punishing your children the same as I do...at least, that's what it seems. I don't really know a lot about the "gentle discipline" that some of you practice, but we do take time outs when needed or other ways that I deem necessary, at the time. (I've gone to the GD forum, but probably need to do some more looking). Most often, the punishment is as related to the "offense" (for lack of a better term) as I can think of.

DS2 is definitely my most needy child. He is so tough in some ways, and so not tough in other ways. The thing is, I am trying to cure his asthma with diet, and his behavior is also directly affected by diet. So, it is very important for him to eat what I give him. 9 times out of 10, I am in the room, although not always sitting next to him. I'm a little paranoid about the kids eating while I'm not around (in case of choking or something), so I am never further than 10 feet away. I know he wants my attention, but he also will want me to spoon feed him, even if I've been sitting right next to him eating dinner.

I will definitely take careful consideration of everything that has been said here. Please, just don't think that I am some horrible parent that just lets things get out of hand. This just happens to be one of the more challenging issues I face with him.


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## That Mom (Jun 8, 2010)

@Bri'sgirl

I am feeling a little flamed myself. When my little guy went through a similar phase, I too tried to accommodate as much as possible. However as a single parent with a job to get to, another small child to attend, a house to maintain on my own and errands that no one else was going to do sometimes it was incredibly overwhelming. The egg timer was used a method to let him know how much time we had to eat our meal. On some mornings, we literally had ten minutes to eat our oatmeal and orange slices. I felt that simply taking his food away when it was time to leave the house for childcare or grocery shopping would feel more randomly capricious and cruel than a gentle explanation that this was meal time and when it was over that we had to leave (or get ready for bed or go get the laundry from the laundry room) and letting him have a visual would keep him from feeling surprised or punished.

Yes, my kids probably do have to take more responsibility for themselves than some others, but that is our reality. I can not afford to loose my job over an hour long breakfast on a Wednesday or my inability to shower or clean our clothes because someone wants to be spoon fed or have me help them try on all five pair of shoes before we leave. Sometimes my answer just has to be no. "No we can't have a third story or second chapter tonight." "I am sorry you're upset, you already made a choice, you can make a different choice tomorrow." "No, I need to eat and do the dishes before we leave, I bet you can do it."

I certainly wish that I had more than two hours some nights to make dinner, eat, get ready for bed, play (if there is time), read stories and snuggle but I will use what I have and make the best of it.

Sometimes I think people forget what a privileged place they come from to have a partner or even a washer and dryer in their home and forget that not every one has the family time - and I mean actual hours - they enjoy.


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## ThisCat (Jun 19, 2010)

Nevermind. The little ones need me and I don't have time to be coherent (and not sound snippy).


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThisCat* 
I honestly do not understand for the life of me what the harm is in feeding the kid. What are people afraid will happen? What is so wrong with indulging a child's "want" as long as there is not harm in it? I mean I won't let my daughter live off cupcakes because it would be detrimental to her health. But feed her? Sure. Sign me up. To not feed her when I am perfectly capable of doing so would be a conscious choice to engage in a power struggle OVER NOTHING. What good could come of that? Would it be to show her who's boss?

Well I don't know what your life responsibilities are but I for one do not have the time to sit and feed someone who is perfectly capable of doing it themselves.


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThisCat* 
I honestly do not understand for the life of me what the harm is in feeding the kid. What are people afraid will happen? What is so wrong with indulging a child's "want" as long as there is not harm in it? I mean I won't let my daughter live off cupcakes because it would be detrimental to her health. But feed her? Sure. Sign me up. To not feed her when I am perfectly capable of doing so would be a conscious choice to engage in a power struggle OVER NOTHING. What good could come of that? Would it be to show her who's boss?

Oh, and IMO it's not a power struggle if only one person is involved in the struggle. Walking away and letting the child throw a fit it not a power struggle. Standing there and fighting with them, trying to make them feed themself would be a power struggle. Telling them you will not feed them and then walking away is just refusing to be drawn into the struggle.


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaofthree* 
just because it is a want doesn't make it less valid. part of being a parent is taking care of their wants. or at least i thought it was. not every single one (like a pp stated no diet of only cupcakes etc) but feeding them? i can not imagine letting my child cry for three hours just to show them i could.

h

It is not LETTING them cry, they are CHOOSING to cry. This is not an infant we are talking about. If they want to throw a tantrum for 3 hours they can go to it, but I don't have to participate in it.


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## wookie (Dec 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
Well I don't know what your life responsibilities are but I for one do not have the time to sit and feed someone who is perfectly capable of doing it themselves.

That`s where the disconnect is, IMO. If you do not have the time, don`t do it. But if someone else does have the time and is willing to do it don`t call their kid `not normal`. (I`m not saying YOU said it, just the general tone of those that think 4yo is too old.)

Also, another poster said something about daughter-in-law appreciating it etc...um, reallyÉ For one I`ve never seen an adult asking for his mom to come feed him and for another if my spoon-fed son *did* end up like that I`m hoping my DIL would have known this trait before marrying him and would have taken a decision appropriate for herself









PS: What`s wrong in indulging your child`s ``wants`` if it isn`t harming anyoneÉ







My son also ``wants`` me to lay with him until he falls asleep at night. I do. Most nights. He feels more secure that way. I don`t see a reason why not.


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## ThisCat (Jun 19, 2010)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
Well I don't know what your life responsibilities are but I for one do not have the time to sit and feed someone who is perfectly capable of doing it themselves.

If the child wasn't capable I'd bet the time would be there, so for that reason I don't feel this issue has much to do with not actually having the time ever. It's about deciding whether or not this is an appropriate use of time. For me, it was most of the time although there were times when it was not practical. For others like you, it seems it's never an appropriate use of time. Different strokes as they say. Simple as that. There's no need for this to become a competition over who has more responsibilities than who.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
Oh, and IMO it's not a power struggle if only one person is involved in the struggle. Walking away and letting the child throw a fit it not a power struggle. Standing there and fighting with them, trying to make them feed themself would be a power struggle. Telling them you will not feed them and then walking away is just refusing to be drawn into the struggle.

I think the use of the words "letting" and "refusing" indicate to me it is indeed a power struggle, and it's not one I would care to engage in. I am too busy to deal with self inflicted drama.

Call me lazy, but I'd just assume feed the kid and get on with life rather than deal with a screaming crying kid for who knows how long. Lucky for me, that approach worked well for us. Also I think it's the fact that it was not a control issue for me and my daughter that smoothed over those times when I felt I couldn't feed her when she asked. She knew I would if I could, and I think that made a big difference in how she reacted.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

I have a hard time functioning if one child is screaming their head off. The other child can't deal very well when this happens either, and it certainly makes for a miserable evening where no one in the family is able to really do anything. There are 4 of us in a small house so there is no escaping the noise. If I can spare the 10 minutes it takes to help the four year I'd do it, because then the rest of my night will go better. I used to do dishes and feed at the same time. Go wash one plate, then back over the the table to spin the spaghetti on the fork, wash a glass while DS was chewing on that. I probably would look a little nuts if someone was watching. Then I had my DD when DS was 3.5 What a difference. That child wouldn't let me feed her past 12 months. It was awful, because she would make such a mess that it took so much more time to clean her up and clean up after her than it did if she would just let me feed her the darn tomato soup.

Now like the OP said the kid needs to eat on a time schedule and needs to eat certain foods. In that case I would definitely work my schedule around making sure the child eats as much as I possibly could.
That Mom you are right I am coming from a very privileged perspective. Thank you for reminding me.

I do think, however that once a kid gets going and is in that hyperventilating miserable cry, really they are not CHOOSING to cry, they are not choosing to tantrum, and they need mom to stop and hug them and help them breath in then breath out and calm down. I don't know that this is what heavenly is doing, but I have this image in my head of a woman dismissing her child's feeling because they are in fact ridiculous, but to the child they aren't and that's going to hurt a 4 year old.


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## ThisCat (Jun 19, 2010)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess* 
I used to do dishes and feed at the same time. Go wash one plate, then back over the the table to spin the spaghetti on the fork, wash a glass while DS was chewing on that. I probably would look a little nuts if someone was watching.

I wouldn't think you looked nuts since our spaghetti night looked almost exactly the same.







I would just start cleaning up while feeding or at least twisting..."Mommy, twist it for me."







It really was not a time consuming process.


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## Banana731 (Aug 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wookie* 
Also, another poster said something about daughter-in-law appreciating it etc...um, reallyÉ For one I`ve never seen an adult asking for his mom to come feed him and for another if my spoon-fed son *did* end up like that I`m hoping my DIL would have known this trait before marrying him and would have taken a decision appropriate for herself









That's probably true, but I do know of dh's that _expect_ their wives to get them all their drinks, or make all their snacks, or change the channel on the TV for them (well, to be fair, that was a long time ago when we had remoteless TVs







) Expecting your wife to wait on you, is unacceptable IMO. I don't think that men like that just decide one day that their wives should wait on them. Heck, I dated a guy in my 20's who told me he still had his mom clip his toenails (we dated for about 10 seconds, that is.) I'd be mortified if that were my son.

Not that feeding your 4 year old occasionally is going to make him that guy, obviously. All kids want mom's attention and will sometimes do crazy things to get it. If my kids want me to feed them sometimes and I have the time, I don't see it as a big deal. But if it were all the time, I wouldn't be willing to do it either. So I see both sides.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Quote:

It's the 30 minutes or so after that when I just don't have the time, he starts to cry and I try to stay calm, but sometimes end up getting angry (and yelling or raising my voice). I always end up feeding him, in the end.
This sounds like a problem to me. If you didn't resent it and it never caused issues, I would say...well, I would never do it myself, bc it would make me nuts, but to each her own.

However, if the above is what is going down, that does not sound good. You are saying no and then giving in after getting mad and him freaking out. I have done this MANY times myself, mind you, but I don't think it's a good pattern at all. Either be willing to do it 100% of the time and do so gracefully or decide that you are done with this and stop the practice.


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## wookie (Dec 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
This sounds like a problem to me. If you didn't resent it and it never caused issues, I would say...well, I would never do it myself, bc it would make me nuts, but to each her own.

However, if the above is what is going down, that does not sound good. You are saying no and then giving in after getting mad and him freaking out. I have done this MANY times myself, mind you, but I don't think it's a good pattern at all. Either be willing to do it 100% of the time and do so gracefully or decide that you are done with this and stop the practice.

OP, after all I`ve said, I do agree with this post. If it`s not something you want to do and it`s causing grief all around, you may have to choose your camp. Feed all the time, have him start on his own and then you finish (kinda 50-50) or not spoon feed at all. This tug of war doesn`t sound all that happy for either of you.

PS: does your son go to school yet. how does he do there. i`ve known kids (mine included) to behave or do things absolutely competently when mom isn`t there.


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## p.s (May 27, 2005)

well......... my 4.5 yo asks me to feed him all the time.








sometimes, i'm just too busy and when I say "I CAN'T right now, you NEED to feed yourself, " he usually gets the picture and feeds himself. Sometimes he'll whine a couple of times more. If he really keeps asking, then I will just feed him.... while I'm running around the kitchen cleaning up.

Reading this thread, I realize how normal this really is.
DH is ADAMANT that ds1 can feed himself... but he sometimes relents and will feed ds.
otoh, ds2 who is 19 mo insists on feeding himself with fork and spoon, drinking from a regular cup himself, etc.

feed him a bite... wipe down half the table.... feed him another bite.... wipe down the counter.
Looking back, and reading this thread, I now realize he just needs more time with me when he asks.....
when I feed him a bite, he just sits in his chair, watching me while he chews... the same kind of face his father (DH) would stare at me when we first started dating.

when ds1 was 3.5, my mom went down to the kitchen very early one morning... and found him sitting very quietly at the table.... eating a large slice of chocolate cake with a tall glass of milk. LOL.
Procuring this slice entailed pushing the learning tower very quietly about 4 feet from the center of the kitchen (was positioned against the counter), lifting a _very_ heavy lid off of the glass cake stand and placing it very quietly on a granite counter, slicing off a piece cleanly, replacing the lid very quietly. Then pouring his own milk.

on my job daily, i'm reminded how lucky i am to have two very healthy kiddos. And you know, Ds1 soon won't need me for any of the little things.
....i guess i am really okay with feeding him.....
and lying down with him at night...'til he falls asleep.


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## p.s (May 27, 2005)

Heavenly said:


> I don't see being a parent as catering to my child's every whim. If they cry for 3 hours its because they are CHOOSING to do so.
> 
> 
> > i guess i wouldn't want my child to cry for 3 h. Esp. if there was anyway that I could prevent it, esp if easy. I would hate for something to happen to my child, and my last memory of our time together was me refusing to do something simple and him having a 3 h cry.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

I'd give him the food, let him eat what he wants and clear what he doesn't eat. He will likely not starve himself and missing a meal because he's waiting for you to feed him won't hurt.


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## Bri'sgirl (Apr 4, 2009)

*UPDATE* After reading through all of the replies and taking some time to really think about this, I came to a decision. There are many points of view on this, but I've decided that ds really needs me, and if feeding him (when I can) makes things happy in my house, that is what I will do. There are sometimes weeks between when he wants me to feed him, though sometimes it's every day. After giving it some more thought, it does seem to happen more often when he's not feeling 100%.

Someone asked if he goes to school, and he does go to pre-k. He eats just fine there and doesn't ask to be fed.

So, I will feed him when he needs me to, but I will also let him know that when I'm really busy, he will have to feed himself. I'm sure I can make the time, more often than not. Most likely, he will not be wanting me to feed him by the time he is in kindergarten, so I am just going to cherish him being my "baby" and not worry about the rest.


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## emilysmama (Jun 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bri'sgirl* 
*UPDATE* After reading through all of the replies and taking some time to really think about this, I came to a decision. There are many points of view on this, but I've decided that ds really needs me, and if feeding him (when I can) makes things happy in my house, that is what I will do. There are sometimes weeks between when he wants me to feed him, though sometimes it's every day. After giving it some more thought, it does seem to happen more often when he's not feeling 100%.

Someone asked if he goes to school, and he does go to pre-k. He eats just fine there and doesn't ask to be fed.

So, I will feed him when he needs me to, but I will also let him know that when I'm really busy, he will have to feed himself. I'm sure I can make the time, more often than not. Most likely, he will not be wanting me to feed him by the time he is in kindergarten, so I am just going to cherish him being my "baby" and not worry about the rest.









Well, you're probably right that he'll probably be done with this phase by K, but I'm the exception.

My dd is almost 6.5 y.o., and I still need to frequently feed her. (Yep, that's me, the coward who didn't speak up while everyone was saying it's not normal to feed a 4 year old.)

Random strangers at the restaurants often come up and complement me about what a "good eater", my dd is because they see her eating lots of veggies enthusiastically. Hah!

That's because I offer it to her, spoonful by spoonful. Yes, it is not unusual to find me spoon feeding my 6 y.o. I give her a bite, then she chews and swallows and immediately opens her mouth very wide, ready for more. In fact, if I am not paying attention and don't notice that she is ready for her next bite, she often grabs hold of my arm and steers the spoon, still in my hand, to her mouth!

And yet if I put the spoon next to the plate and expect her to feed the veggies to herself, she will just sit there and 30 minutes then 60 minutes will just pass by with nary a bite. I hate to use the word lazy, but my only conclusion is that although my dd is perfectly happy to eat unpopular healthy veggies, she is too lazy (or otherwise unwilling) to use her own hands to transport the food from the plate to her mouth. Part of it might be that she doesn't like to get her hands messy, so she doesn't want to run the risk of touching food.

I don't really know why she's like this, but it really doesn't matter. But I only have this one child, so I just feed her if I notice that she is not touching her food and keep a sense of humor, because when I think about it, it's pretty funny. (If I had more than one child, I'm sure I would go crazy and probably put my foot down due to lack of time.) For me, it's faster this way, and her diet is healthier this way. I'm not worried at all, and I'll feed her for as long as she wishes, I guess.

Needless to say, my dd is perfectly able to manage feeding herself things like ice cream, cake, pies, etc. in a timely manner.









She just finished full day K, and they only have 20 minutes to eat. I have no idea how she manages it, but she often does manage to eat her packed lunch.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bri'sgirl* 
*UPDATE* After reading through all of the replies and taking some time to really think about this, I came to a decision. There are many points of view on this, but I've decided that ds really needs me, and if feeding him (when I can) makes things happy in my house, that is what I will do. There are sometimes weeks between when he wants me to feed him, though sometimes it's every day. After giving it some more thought, it does seem to happen more often when he's not feeling 100%.

Someone asked if he goes to school, and he does go to pre-k. He eats just fine there and doesn't ask to be fed.

So, I will feed him when he needs me to, but I will also let him know that when I'm really busy, he will have to feed himself. I'm sure I can make the time, more often than not. Most likely, he will not be wanting me to feed him by the time he is in kindergarten, so I am just going to cherish him being my "baby" and not worry about the rest.









bri - i havent read the rest of your replies. but i wanted to share this with you.

i live in the US now but i am from asia.

some of my happy memories are of family feeding me. my most happiest memories of my gpa is him feeding me when i was what 10. he fed me off and on and when we went to spend our summers with him i looked forward to him feeding me till he passed when i was like 14.

i carry on that tradition with my dd. she is almost 8 and its just her and me. with her i dont see feeding her as spoiling but as another way of connecting. she still sits on my lap and i feed her sometimes. in fact we do that most days. saves on cleaning dishes as we eat out of the same dish together. of course competition is rife and if i look like i am enjoying my bite, she wants me to feed her my next fingerfull or forkfull.

my dd's younger days were spent caught between wanting to be a baby and a grown up at the same time. she has gone through phases when she needed to be babied. i have noticed those usually happened when she was going thru an emotional growth spurt. i have dressed her, fed her, packed her bag for her... all of which she was capable of doing.

but i could see the need behind the request. coming from a single coparenting family life is hard on her emotionally. so i do everything to meet her emotional needs.

today the baby comes up very rarely. instead i see her wanting to be more grown up. and so i allow her to do things that other kids dont do at that age. for instance - with me in close supervision, she would make a full breakfast when she was 6 1/2 - usually a veggie omlete which she would make from scratch including cutting the veggies with a sharp knife.







somedays i'd be hand feeding her the omlette she had made.

when i go home to visit my mom, we still cosleep and then on some days my mom still hand feeds her 45 year old daughter. because i am immersed in some legal document i am helping her with and she doesnt want me to miss lunch or eat part of a lunch.

hey once in a while our roles change and my dd feeds ME. in fact some nights when i struggle to sleep she reads to ME!!!!


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## Sleepymama (Oct 9, 2003)

Some small advice, since it does not seem to be sensory-related (that was my first guess, but if he is OK at school, it's probably not sensory but more about having you be with him). Make it a game. You do one spoonful, he does the next. Get the coolest dang spoon you can find. Make a special holder for it on the table or something like that. Make rewards for each bite he does himself, like have him do little stamps on a piece of paper for each bite he gives himself. If he gets 5 stamps, he gets something at the end of the meal. It will take some time, but I think if you are patient and build rewards & expectations into it he will get used to doing it himself. This will probably take up less of your time in the long run if it gets him to be independent. I have a kid w/special needs who is not very independent and a 4yo without special needs but who thinks she should have everything done for her because we do it for her brother. I've needed to do a lot of this kind of rewarding for her. And I do not balk at M&Ms.


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## zeldamomma (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *emilysmama* 

That's because I offer it to her, spoonful by spoonful. Yes, it is not unusual to find me spoon feeding my 6 y.o. I give her a bite, then she chews and swallows and immediately opens her mouth very wide, ready for more. In fact, if I am not paying attention and don't notice that she is ready for her next bite, she often grabs hold of my arm and steers the spoon, still in my hand, to her mouth!

And yet if I put the spoon next to the plate and expect her to feed the veggies to herself, she will just sit there and 30 minutes then 60 minutes will just pass by with nary a bite. I hate to use the word lazy, but my only conclusion is that although my dd is perfectly happy to eat unpopular healthy veggies, she is too lazy (or otherwise unwilling) to use her own hands to transport the food from the plate to her mouth. Part of it might be that she doesn't like to get her hands messy, so she doesn't want to run the risk of touching food.


If this is just a preference for the two of you, than more power to you. But, I wanted to very gently suggest that it sounds like she may have sensory issues, and she might benefit from some occupational therapy. It might be worth reading up on sensory integration disorder a little online, and considering if her dislike of getting her hands dirty is interfering with her life in other ways. I think it would be frustrating to need someone else to hold your spoon (which is what it sounds like, since she's moving your arm to get the spoon in her mouth). Have you ever asked her why she doesn't feed herself? At 6 1/2 you may just get shrug, but you also may get a complete explanation.


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Never mind.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bri'sgirl* 
*UPDATE* After reading through all of the replies and taking some time to really think about this, I came to a decision. There are many points of view on this, but I've decided that ds really needs me, and if feeding him (when I can) makes things happy in my house, that is what I will do. There are sometimes weeks between when he wants me to feed him, though sometimes it's every day. After giving it some more thought, it does seem to happen more often when he's not feeling 100%.

Someone asked if he goes to school, and he does go to pre-k. He eats just fine there and doesn't ask to be fed.

So, I will feed him when he needs me to, but I will also let him know that when I'm really busy, he will have to feed himself. I'm sure I can make the time, more often than not. Most likely, he will not be wanting me to feed him by the time he is in kindergarten, so I am just going to cherish him being my "baby" and not worry about the rest.

















I'm sure he will feel more secure and need your help less and less as time goes on. That's how a lot of kids work, when they know for sure you got their backs and you'll help them feel safe whenever they ask, they are more independent and secure later in life.


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## pixilixi (Jun 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meemee* 

i live in the US now but i am from asia...

...hey once in a while our roles change and my dd feeds ME. in fact some nights when i struggle to sleep she reads to ME!!!!

Coming from someone who still feeds their 4yr 3 mo ds their dinner just about every night, I really appreciated hearing this story meemee, that's lovely









While ds has some sensory issues that I'm sure are contributing to his wanting me to feed him, I've never seen it as an issue. Like the need for other things have, I assume that the need will pass with time.

OP, sounds like you've made peace with your situation, and I think it's perfectly fine to say you can't feed your dc when you're busy. I do make ds wait sometimes too if I'm busy. And to those with more than one child and many other responsibilities, I take my hat off to you, and yeah, absolutely I understand why you might need your kids to feed themselves, so you work toward that.

For us, it works, ds eats enough healthy stuff, we're all happy, so eh, I feed him! And if I'm doing it when he's 6, eh! If I'm doing it every night when he's 16, well then... we'll deal with that when we get there!!!


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## Katie_Brown (Oct 30, 2020)

Hello yes I have the same problem with my 4 year old, it's a struggle especially being a busy single mother. I don't like that alot of people tend to say it's not normal it, it maybe be right but the word normal is not right to say it's obvious it's "normal" as alot of parents are going through it. I do like the solutions on here though I will try them thanks.


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## MeganR (Dec 30, 2020)

Bri'sgirl said:


> Is this normal? My youngest ds, who turned 4 in January, often refuses to eat unless I feed him. It's not like he doesn't like the food or isn't hungry. He just wants me to do the feeding. It's getting very frustrating, because my other 2 dc never did this past the age of 2 or younger. The meal it most often occurs with is breakfast, but can happen at any time of the day. I go as long as possible trying to make him eat by himself...up to an hour...but then, we have things to do. I can't have him go hungry and it turns into major arguments with crying (on his part) and yelling (on my part). How can I encourage him to feed himself? I've tried time outs, taking away special toys, talking with him about it, not going to special activities that were previously planned, etc.
> 
> I would love any advice!
> 
> Thanks!


I have a friend who had the exact same issue. She decided to serve the meal, sit down and eat taking plenty of time. If her child wouldn't eat, she wouldn't say a word about it. She would clear the table after a reasonable amount of time and her child would have to wait until the next meal. No snacks were given when this happened. Her child quickly ended the behavior after a couple rounds!


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## ridgerkollyn (May 30, 2021)

I have a dd, 18 months who feeds herself. DS often says he's too tired to feed himself so could I hel him.


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