# A question about raw milk.



## Mommay (Jul 29, 2004)

I've found a farm relatively nearby that has raw milk, which I'd like to try. But I would use it mostly for ds's "kid coffee" (hot carob - I currently use rice milk). But pasteurization is bad for milk, which I thought was just heating milk, though I get the feeling there's more to it. So if I heat raw milk, will that be bad?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I believe it's high levels of heat for an extended period of time that damages milk. Heating it for your purposes should be fine. Maybe someone who knows more will pop in. JaneS?


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## crunchyconmomma (Feb 6, 2003)

can't say with any certainty about using is a heated beverage in terms of what beneficial properties are lost, but i can tell you that raw is the way to go if you want to do cow's milk. there is one personal caveat that i have b/c i tend to be a little paranoid - is it certified? i think you could get raw from a farm that isn't certified, but the cert is just added insurance that they are using safety measures to not make the milk contaminant-prone. an excellent read on the topic is "the milk of human kindness is not pasteurized" by william campbell douglass.

oh, and the cream from the top (if you let it sit in the fridge) is sooooo good in coffee. okay, and just yummy to drink!


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## sophiesue2 (Jan 15, 2005)

almost all commercial milk is ultrapasteurized (even organic...blech!). which means holding the milk at a temperature of 280 °F or 138 °C for at least two seconds. my dd drinks raw goat milk (which i warm a bit) but i think that a little stovetop heating and WAY beyond boiling are two different animals.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Giving it raw to your child will be so much more beneficial!

Yes, by heating it over 117 degrees you will kill probiotics, immune factors, amino acids, vitamins B and C and digestive enzymes. The protein and calcium and other minerals will be much less easily absorbed.

Raw milk has been studied for many health benefits, including checking cavities.

http://www.drrons.com/raw-milk-veritas.htm

How about making a cold smoothie in blender with ice instead?


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## sophiesue2 (Jan 15, 2005)

thanks jane. i wonder how warm i actually make her milk. i warm it just enough to take the chill off (since she dribbles it all over herself when its cold). i'd hate to think i was paying for raw milk and then cooking it!


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## Bia (Oct 21, 2004)

You could use your finger to test. Warm (but not too warm) to the touch would not kill off the good stuff.


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## Mommay (Jul 29, 2004)

Thanks for all the good advice. I found the farm through eatwild.com, and they stipulate that they do no regulate the participants at all. What kind of certification should I be looking for? I'd appreciate your reply, crunchyconmama. Not organic, right? Something else?

I knew enough about raw milk to know that it has beneficial properties. For his cherished treat, I don't mind giving up some of the nutritional benefits, as long as I'm not doing any harm in the process. Slightly warm suits him fine, so I think I'll stick to that.

Thanks again.


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## Mommay (Jul 29, 2004)

Oh, and thanks for the link JaneS. Just what I needed to read.


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## lauriem33 (Nov 9, 2005)

The farm we get our raw milk from is certified organic so you could look for that. I also just heat ours a bit for our own hot chocolate mix since the girls don't like to wait for it to cool down (and neither do I







). I would think that even if you do kill of _some_ of the beneficial stuff it's still so far superior to pasteurized which has _none_ of the beneficial stuff, yk? I'm out of milk and actually going to the farm in a little bit.


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## jbird4art (Oct 26, 2005)

ive been trying to find raw milk on long island, ny. would anyone have any suggestions. so far ive only found farms upstate which is a good couple of hours away


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## sophiesue2 (Jan 15, 2005)

New York
Clifton Springs: Galens Homestead Acres, Steve and Hope Galens, 3023 Taylor Rd., Clifton Springs, NY 14432, (315) 462-5178, [email protected] . NYS licensed to sell raw milk from our farm...50 Holstein-mix cows, pasture-fed as weather allows, low somatic cell count..happy and healthy cows!
Clyde: JD Farm owners Paul and Linda Jeremenko, 9777 Old Rt. 31, Clyde,New York 14433, (315) 923-7660, [email protected] . Raw milk available,no antibiotics or hormones, pasture fed. Organic certified.
East Aurora: Thorpe's Organic Family Farm has a cow share program for raw milk from certified organic Jerseys, pasture fed. We also sell cert. organic vegetables, grains, and chicken, brown eggs, beef and pork. (716)655-4486; 12866 Rt. 78, East Aurora, NY
East Meredith: Located in Delaware County, in the foothills of the Catskill Mountains, Kortright Creek Creamery produces grass fed, organic goat milk and is licensed to sell raw milk on the farm. Pasteurized and bottled goat milk is sold in food cooperatives and health food stores throughout New York and Massachusetts. Tom and Denise Warren 1211 Kelso Road East Meredith, NY 13757 (607) 278-5773. www.stoneandthistlefarm.com
Eaton: The Small Street Co-op, 2104 Braley Brook Rd, (315) 684-7215 , [email protected] . Provides delivery service from 11 local (some organic) farms. One of the farm sells organic, non-homogenized milk from pasture-fed cows, as well as raw milk "for pet consumption only."
Fallsburg: M&S Farms, Ph (845)436-8287, [email protected] . Sells raw goat's milk, organic produce grown on site, and eggs.
Gilbertsville: Butternut Farms, (607)783-2392.
Ghent: Hawthorne Valley Farm, (518)672-7500, Ext. 1, http://www.hawthornevalleyfarm.org.
Hoosick Falls: Breese Hollow Dairy, 454 Breese Hollow Rd, Hoosick Falls, New York 12090, Chuck and Diane Phippen, (518) 686-4044, [email protected] . A grass fed Jersey Dairy, licensed to sell raw milk on the farm.
Hudson: Cow share program at a biodynamic farm. Contact Arthur and Anna Lups, (518) 828-1966.
Ithaca: Meadowsweet Farm, (607) 582-6954, www.meadowsweetfarm.com. Sells raw milk from pasture-fed Jersey cows. Makes and sells raw milk cheeses through their website.
Keeseville: Denise & Sam Hendren, (518) 834-7306. Certified organic small farmer . Raw milk and cheese available. (Northern NY-Adirondack region)
North Rose: Rosedale Farm, 9882 Miner Road, (315)587 4246, [email protected] or [email protected] .
Livingston Manor, Parksville, Liberty, and the rest ot Sullivan County: Mariesha Dairy Goats sells raw goat milk on the farm. Soon raw hard-pressed cheeses and pasteurized fresh cheeses will be available. [email protected] . Better to call (845)292-0076.
Middletown (Orange County): Goat's milk "for animal use" and free range eggs, composted goat manure, laying hens and pullets available. By appointment only (845)692-4578. Web site: http://www.geocities.com/demdare
Niagara County:Teacup Farm (716) 791-4910, cell (716) 807-2963 , or email at [email protected] . Raw Goats Milk for animal Use Only. Also Fresh eggs, chickens, Quail. Seasonal Pork and Beef for sale.
Philadelphia (Upstate- Thousand Islands region): Martin Dairy Farm, Loyal & Anesha Martin family, 35843 Elm Ridge Rd, Philadelphia, NY 13673. (315) 642-3604, [email protected] . Certified Organic dairy- raw milk sales on farm.
Rochester (buying club) and Whitesville (on farm): Pe-R-Ly Meadows Organic Farm, Perry and Lydia Ross and children, (607) 356-3336, Website: www.perlymeadows.com. We have been certified organic since Sept. 2003. We have raw milk, skim milk, cream, and mozzarella cheese available from a 35 head herd of various heritage breed grass-fed cows. We have not fed grain to our cattle for over two years which results in a high butterfat milk. Our raw milk is available directly from the farm on a donation basis or through our buying club in Rochester NY with our herdshare. We meet bi-monthly at private residences. We also have poultry, beef, pasture-suckled veal, water fowl and pork in season. We welcome farm visitors and have a beautiful place to camp. Please call or email before visiting.
Whitesville: See Rochester listing.
Worcester: Anticipated certification to sell raw milk at the farm in the spring of 2006. Seasonal, grass-fed Jersey cows. Darren and Lori McGrath at [email protected] . Phone (607) 397-7741.

i don't know if any of these are close to you. here is the contact for the weston a. price foundation chapters in new york. they may be able to help you.
New York
Allegany: Trevor and Elizabeth Thompson (716) 373-4655, [email protected]
Buffalo: Jill Tiebor-Franz (716) 655-5133, [email protected]
Carle Place/Nassau County: Regina Bordieri (917) 750-8003, [email protected]
Livingston Manor: Amy Gillingham (845) 439-4799
New York City: Sophia Knapinsky (718) 591-2853, [email protected] and Claudia Keel (212) 260-5075, [email protected] , www.wprice-nyc.org
NYC/Upper East Side: Douglas Meadow (212) 717-1292, [email protected]
Oceanside: Jill Mazzeo (516) 593-5167, [email protected]
Putnam County: Luisa Perkins (845) 265-7816, [email protected]
Rochester Metro: Elizabeth Benner (585) 247-8962, [email protected] and Chris Nuccitelli (585) 737-5927, [email protected]
Southern Tier: Stuart McCarty and Lynn Thor (607) 693-3378, [email protected]
Suffolk County: Betty Moore (631) 987-9792, [email protected]
Syracuse/Cortland: Betsy Velonis (315) 696-8043, [email protected]
Ulster County-Hudson Valley: Dina Falconi and Charles Blumstein (845) 687-8938, [email protected]

ps- i just copied and pasted, so i doubt the links work!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

For anyone else looking for raw milk:
http://www.realmilk.com/where1.html

Just know that now is the dry season too, the cows aren't producing as much until their spring calves arrive.


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## momto l&a (Jul 31, 2002)

We buy raw milk, its not certified, which is fine by us. Raw milk is a







: in our state









We do know the people who have the milk. Very neat and clean, careful about the cows diet. We ourselves are planning on getting a cow in the near future.

Cow are starting to freshen. Where we get out milk they have one cow milking right now and one has just freshened.


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## lauriem33 (Nov 9, 2005)

After starting on raw milk it is something I would recommend anyone who does dairy to try at least one time, though I know it can be hard for people to find. We went from "conventional" to organic pasteurized to raw, and while I really liked the organic I absolutely







the raw. And I'm not a big milk drinker, but the taste is just exceptional. Nothing compares. There, enough of my public service announcement....


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## Mommay (Jul 29, 2004)

I'm still stuck about what certification I should be looking for and how I can know the milk is safe. I'm thinking that most farmers doing raw milk are probably going to be conscientious.

I'm really looking forward to trying it.


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## lauriem33 (Nov 9, 2005)

If you look at the above list for different sources in your state many are listed as certified. Are there any on that list that are a reasonable distance from you? It might be worth it to contact a few even if they are a little far because sometimes they may have a delivery if you are in a large city.

I know some of the names of organizations that certify are MOSA, NOFA, CCOF. They can be licensed as well and there is a whole process involved in that. The farm we buy from has had to jump through so many hoops to be able to provide their cow share program that is licensed and certified organic, I know they're commited to it. I looked for specific certification info and found these tips to help you assess the safety.

Quote:

Information for consumers

Consumers should ask raw milk dairy farmers the following questions to get a sense of the quality of their animal care and sanitary practices:

* Are you licensed to sell raw milk?
* Are your cows grass-fed (pasture in the summer and primarily hay or baleage in the winter)?
* Do you use pesticides, herbicides, hormone supplements or antibiotics?
* If they are not licensed to sell raw milk, ask them if their milk is tested regularly for bacteria, coliform and somatic-cell counts. Bacteria counts should be below 20,000 per mL; coliform should not exceed 10 per mL; somatic cell count should be below 750,000 and ideally below 350,000 per mL.

ETA: I just realized that list for NY wasn't for you OP. Sorry. But if you go to the realmilk site you can find your state and the ones that are certified will be listed. HTH


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## supercrunch (Jul 9, 2004)

in VA it is illegal to buy or sell raw milk, but it is not illegal to drink milk from a cow you own...so some farmers sell "cow shares" where you are a partial owner of a cow and you get the milk from that cow


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## Boadicea (Mar 28, 2004)

Unfortunately, it is illegal to sell raw milk "for human consumption" in most states. It is, however, legal to sell raw milk "for animal/pet consumption" in most states. So, most farmers who sell raw milk do so with the stipulation that it is not intended for human consumption. Or, they do the cow share thing, as Janet mentioned.

In my experience, not a lot of the farmers who do sell raw milk are certified organic. However, most of them are following organic practices. So you just need to ask a lot of questions -- the ones outlined in the PP are perfect -- and observe the conditions of the farm and the farming practices for yourself. The best way to ensure a quality product (in this case, the milk) is to have a good, personal relationship with the farmer you are purchasing from. Not that you have to buy only from friends, but getting to know the famers and how they operate their businesses is a good idea.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

What are the laws in NYS about selling/purchasing raw milk? If it's not legal "for human consumption" then I'm guessing I wouldn't be able to use food stamps to pay for it?

Is there any way to get raw GOAT milk on Long Island? I know that some of my cow milk sensitivity might be due to it being pasturized, but I know that I can handle goat's milk without problems.


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## sophiesue2 (Jan 15, 2005)

No. I seriously doubt you could use food stamps for it. My advice is to contact whoever is closest to you from this list I posted (Chapters of the Weston A. Price Foundation) and ask them for the specifics in the area. I drive over an hour to get my milk and freeze it.

New York
Allegany: Trevor and Elizabeth Thompson (716) 373-4655, [email protected]
Buffalo: Jill Tiebor-Franz (716) 655-5133, [email protected]
Carle Place/Nassau County: Regina Bordieri (917) 750-8003, [email protected]
Livingston Manor: Amy Gillingham (845) 439-4799
New York City: Sophia Knapinsky (718) 591-2853, [email protected] and Claudia Keel (212) 260-5075, [email protected] , www.wprice-nyc.org
NYC/Upper East Side: Douglas Meadow (212) 717-1292, [email protected]
Oceanside: Jill Mazzeo (516) 593-5167, [email protected]
Putnam County: Luisa Perkins (845) 265-7816, [email protected]
Rochester Metro: Elizabeth Benner (585) 247-8962, [email protected] and Chris Nuccitelli (585) 737-5927, [email protected]
Southern Tier: Stuart McCarty and Lynn Thor (607) 693-3378, [email protected]
Suffolk County: Betty Moore (631) 987-9792, [email protected]
Syracuse/Cortland: Betsy Velonis (315) 696-8043, [email protected]
Ulster County-Hudson Valley: Dina Falconi and Charles Blumstein (845) 687-8938, [email protected]


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

I drive 40 minutes (2 hour round trip total time) to get my milk and love it. I would tour the farm and ask a bunch of questions. My farm isn't certified organic, but practice organic. They test for way more than conventional dairies, run a clean farm. Only supplement with organic grain in the winter.
I absollutely love them. Ever since I went raw, I won't touch the store milk.


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