# No babies or toddlers at the wedding. Thanks for lettimg me know ahead of time



## FarmerCathy (Jun 28, 2005)

I'm going to Chicago w/ my 16 mo next week for a wedding for my cousin and they just decided to inform me that there will be no babies or toddlers allowed at the wedding. How would you feel? If I was told this when I was invited to the wedding I may feel different or done something different like declined, but it is less than a week away. I think I would have asked my dh to come so he could play w/ ds outside or in the nursery. My niece is coming with me, she is flying in and then we fly together the rest of the way, but my ds doesn't know my niece and I don't think I could leave him with her without him having a major break down especially now with these molars coming in, plus she isn't coming with me to be my personal babysitter, she is helping, but I didn't employ her to babysit. I totally respect that this is thier wedding and what they want is what they want, but telling me less than a week before?
Would you still go or cancel your flight and reservations? With the way I feel right now I wouldn't want to ruin this happy event because my face will say how I feel whether I try to hide it or not.

Here is the e-mail my Aunt sent me so you get a feel for why I'm so upset about this.

Quote:

I just wanted to advise you that Lauren and Rob want theirs
to be a "kid-free" wedding - - as in no babies or toddlers. Since
it's in a church and will be very dignified, they want to avoid the
potential of any sudden outbursts. So here's a solution for James.
There is a small nursery room in the church that will be open during
the time we're there. It would be a perfect place for Donna to watch
over James while you're in the church for the ceremony.

When the ceremony is over, we would like all of you to join our
entire family for a group photo in the front of the church. They plan
to do Lauren's family first, and then ours. The rest of the wedding
photos will be taken in the morning before the ceremony.
I don't think I would want to join in the picture since not all of us were invited.

Thanks for reading this, I just don't know what to do.


----------



## Potty Diva (Jun 18, 2003)

I actually think what your aunt is suggesting sounds fine. I completely understand wanting to "pretend" that your wedding is perfect, but am wondering what they will do when and if an adult coughs or cries, laughs? Will they be escorted from the wedding too?

I think if Donna is comfortable with watching your babe in the nursery I would go with that.

I know you are peaved about it right now, but I think once you get there and things are going smoothly you'll be able to share in the newlyweds celebration.

I'm also wondering why your aunt is telling you this and not the bride or groom?


----------



## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

I think the nursery sounds like a perfect comprimise, its only for the ceremony anyway.


----------



## FarmerCathy (Jun 28, 2005)

I'm still not sure how he would do with my niece, but still she didn't decide to come to the wedding to watch my child. She came to go to the wedding.


----------



## FarmerCathy (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Potty Diva* 
I'm also wondering why your aunt is telling you this and not the bride or groom?

You've got me on that one? Shouldn't they have told me a couple months ago when I got my invitation?


----------



## ecoteat (Mar 3, 2006)

Is he welcome at the reception? I'd be pretty annoyed that no one told you this until now, too, but it sounds like you can work around it. How long will the ceremony be? If someone is watching him in another room, it won't be for long and she can get you if needed. It does seem funny to invite your son to be in photos; you'd assume that everyone you saw in a wedding photo was actually AT the weddiing!


----------



## AllisonR (May 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Potty Diva* 
I'm also wondering why your aunt is telling you this and not the bride or groom?

And why ONE WEEK BEFORE??

Ditto. I would send a very pleasant email back to your aunt, saying:
I hope everyone is fine.... blah blah.... I really appreciate the heads up, but I am not sure why you are telling me that babies and toddlers are not welcome? I wonder why bride xyz and groom xyz did not inform me of this when they sent out the invitations? Had I known James was not welcome xyz months ago (when invitations sent out), then I could have made appropriate arrangements. DH could have joined us and taken care of James.

At this point, I see no options except to sorrowfully decline. I really would have loved to come and join in all the happiness... Donna was invited to the wedding, not to be a babysitter, and I would not feel comfortable making her do this, or making my son stay with a stranger. Have a lovely wedding.....


----------



## Jenlaana (Oct 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AllisonR* 
And why ONE WEEK BEFORE??

Ditto. I would send a very pleasant email back to your aunt, saying:
I hope everyone is fine.... blah blah.... I really appreciate the heads up, but I am not sure why you are telling me that babies and toddlers are not welcome? I wonder why bride xyz and groom xyz did not inform me of this when they sent out the invitations? Had I known James was not welcome xyz months ago (when invitations sent out), then I could have made appropriate arrangements. DH could have joined us and taken care of James.

At this point, I see no options except to sorrowfully decline. I really would have loved to come and join in all the happiness... Donna was invited to the wedding, not to be a babysitter, and I would not feel comfortable making her do this, or making my son stay with a stranger. Have a lovely wedding.....

Yeah what she said.

I would not be able to get passed how annoyed I was, especially since the bride and groom (whichever you are closest to) did not talk to you themselves. You shouldn't have to put yourself out that way. If you're ticked off, I dont think you're going to enjoy yourself anyways (atleast I wouldn't)


----------



## mommy2abigail (Aug 20, 2005)

I agree with AllisonR. Not telling you until ONE WEEK before is pretty inconsiderate on their part. And yeah, will I get kicked out if I sneeze? Sheesh. If a baby starts crying the parents can simply walk out with him, not biggie. I would NOT leave my babe in a nursery with someone she didn't know. No matter how long/short the ceremony was. Sorry. I'd respectfully decline the invite at this point. Hopefully if you do, you will be able to get your airplane $ back.


----------



## SweetTeach (Oct 5, 2003)

usually child free weddings are indicated as such on the invitation. weird all around!

this is food for thought, though because we just received an invite in the mail for a wedding in oct @ 6 pm. i'm not sure if it's expected to be kid free so i think i'm going to just go ahead and ask.

good luck with your decision!


----------



## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

I am usually one to support a bride and groom's decisions, but this one is pretty rude and inconsiderate. One WEEK's notice?

I would most likely cancel my flight and politely send regrets, with a nice card.


----------



## hubris (Mar 8, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FarmerCathy* 
You've got me on that one? Shouldn't they have told me a couple months ago when I got my invitation?

I agree.

I'd probably be nice about it and still go, and one parent would play outside with the child during the ceremony. But I'd be annoyed that the bride and groom weren't upfront about their plans when the invitations were sent.

It seems almost like an invitation (although unintended, I'm sure) for a family rift. I'm assuming that changing your reply at this point would be perceived as bitchy? It's up to you: accept the invitation and help create the rift, or make family peace a part of your wedding gift to them and attend the wedding on their terms.


----------



## pixilixi (Jun 20, 2006)

Same here, I wouldn't leave my ds (also 16 months) with someone he didn't know - even if I knew them well. (And of course, your point about your niece coming to the wedding to see the ceremony, not to babysit.)

And yeah, I would feel peeved at the short notice too.

If everyone is welcome at the reception, and/or you will have lots of other opportunity to catch up with family members (so it's still a worthwhile trip), I would consider (if it were me) going to the church and staying with my ds in the nursery room during the ceremony. Then joining everyone for the socialising afterward.

I know it's not the same, when you don't get to see the actual vows etc, but just a thought.

I hope you arrive at arrangements that you feel comfortable with.


----------



## devster4fun (Jan 28, 2007)

I'm not sure I would cancel all your plans over this. I think there has to be a compromise somewhere...personally, I think everyone should be invited to a wedding. That being said, I just can't imagine my 16 month old in a church, when it's quiet. I can just see the bride about to say, "I do" and my DD screams out, "KITTY CAT!!!" I also don't think she would hold still for longer than about 15 seconds.

Maybe all the toys in the nursery would hold your DS attention for long enough to get through the ceremony. Most weddings I've been to are 30-45 min, an hour at the longest. You could always sit near the back and sneak out if you had to.

And, your DS will get familiar with Donna during the trip...he may really like and gravitate to her and all would be fine in the end.

This is just me...I don't think *this* issue is worth a family rift. But, I tend to compromise to keep the peace and pick my battles.

PS...Have you moved to the 'burbs yet?


----------



## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Okay. I'm going to disagree here.

If children are invited, generally they are included on the invitation. Such as, the envelope will be addressed to Mr. and Mrs. Joe Smith, and James Smith. The exclusion of a kid's name on an envelope is generally meant to denote that they are not invited. So if the invitation is not addressed specifically that way, or to "The Smith Family" I would never have assumed my kid was invited in the first place. It is not required, nor is it technically proper, to write "child free wedding" or "no children" because it's assumed that guests will understand that only the people listed on the invitation are actually invited. Now I have heard some people say that nursing babes in arms are automatically invited anywhere that mothers are in term of the rules of etiquette, but I'm not sure that most people are even aware of that when doing their wedding inviting, and I am also not sure that it does or should apply to a toddler who is capable of running around under their own steam and can generally go without nursing for a few hours while their mothers are gone.

In terms of whether an adult sneezed or whatever, that's just a silly argument. Adults have presumably learned that a prolonged level of noise is unacceptable behavior during a wedding ceremony and will try to hush themselves or excuse themselves. I know that at weddings my DD has been invited to, it's been actually really stressful for me to try to keep my DD quiet to adult standards, especially when the only route of escape from the church/chapel is the door in the back where the bridal procession is going to be going on!

People should be able to try to create the wedding experience they want, and if that doesn't involve a church full of babies/toddlers/children then that's their prerogative. Also, it can be prohibitively expensive to have children there--I know for our wedding if we invited all toddlers/young children of people we knew, that would have meant not inviting about half of the adult family and friends that we wanted to have there or it would have cost a lot more money, and would have meant changing the venue because the place we wanted/could afford couldn't fit more than a certain number of people.

So I think that actually they are being gracious by trying to provide accomodations that they didn't think they would need to for a child they didn't intent to invite but who is obviously being brought anyway, a week before their wedding.

As far as the aunt telling you, well, that is often the case--I know that a week before my wedding I was pretty swamped with other details and obligations, and generally it's the mother of the bride or groom who takes on some of the responsibility for dealing with things like that. Especially "uncomfortable situations" which this clearly is--they can't be really thrilled either right about now. They are probably on a wedding planning forum somewhere right this minute complaining, "OMG, it's a week before the wedding and my cousin is bringing her kid who we didn't invite, we wanted to not have kids at our wedding, and now we have to figure out how to keep it so he doesn't make noise or run around all throughout the ceremony without disinviting her, and now all the other people who are leaving their kids home with a babysitter are going to be pissed because they will think we invited her kid but not theirs."


----------



## fek&fuzz (Jun 19, 2005)

How old is your niece? She might not care about missing the ceremony to watch your child.


----------



## earthmama369 (Jul 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kavita* 
Okay. I'm going to disagree here.

If children are invited, generally they are included on the invitation. Such as, the envelope will be invited to Mr. and Mrs. Joe Smith, and James Smith. The exclusion of a kid's name on an envelope is generally meant to denote that they are not invited. So if the invitation is not addressed specifically that way, or to "The Smith Family" I would never have assumed my kid was invited in the first place. It is not required, nor is it technically proper, to write "child free wedding" or "no children" because it's assumed that guests will understand that only the people listed on the invitation are actually invited. Now I have heard some people say that nursing babes in arms are automatically invited anywhere that mothers are in term of the rules of etiquette, but I'm not sure that most people are even aware of that when doing their wedding inviting, and I am also not sure that it does or should apply to a toddler who is capable of running around under their own steam and can generally go without nursing for a few hours while their mothers are gone.

In terms of whether an adult sneezed or whatever, that's just a silly argument. Adults have presumably learned that a prolonged level of noise is unacceptable behavior during a wedding ceremony and will try to hush themselves or excuse themselves. People can try to create the wedding experience they want, and if that doesn't involve a church full of babies/toddlers/children then that's their prerogative. Also, it can be prohibitively expensive to have children there--I know for our wedding if we invited all toddlers/young children of people we knew, that would have meant not inviting about half of the adult family and friends that we wanted to have there, would have cost a lot more money, and would have meant changing the venue because the place we wanted/could afford couldn't fit more than a certain number of people.

So I think that actually they are being gracious by trying to provide accomodations that they didn't think they would need to for a child they didn't intent to invite but who is obviously being brought anyway, a week before their wedding.

As far as the aunt telling you, well, that is often the case--I know that a week before my wedding I was pretty swamped with other details and obligations, and generally it's the mother or the bride or groom who takes on some of the responsibility for dealing with things like that. Especially "uncomfortable situations" which this clearly is--they can't be really thrilled either right about now. They are probably on a wedding planning forum somewhere right this minute complaining, "OMG, it's a week before the wedding and my cousin is bringing her kid who we didn't invite, we wanted to not have kids at our wedding, and now we have to figure out how to keep it so he doesn't make noise or run around all throughout the ceremony without disinviting her, and now all the other people who are leaving their kids home with a babysitter are going to be pissed because they will think we invited her kid but not theirs."

I see your point, but I also think it's INCREDIBLY rude to essentially "disinvite" a young lady who has been invited to the ceremony as well, so that she can babysit, and apparently without even asking her. That's what makes me think the miscommunication about children at the wedding is more on the bride's side than the OP's side.


----------



## Nosy (Feb 23, 2004)

How completely unfair to Donna, who has likely been looking forward to the wedding. When I was young I loved to go to weddings (I still do), and I would be so upset if I had to babysit instead of go to the ceremony. I also wouldn't leave my 16 mo old in the nursery. I'd just cancel my trip (but won't that involve losing money on the airfare?).


----------



## pumpkin (Apr 8, 2003)

Wait, his name was on the invite and now they are saying he isn't welcome?

Or did you just assume he could come even though he wasn't listed?

If its the first, then I would be really upset, if its the second, well, I think they are being incredibly gracious trying to come up with a solution to the misunderstanding that was in no way their fault. Its also not unusual for another family member to handle some of the tasks associated with the wedding, so I would not think it odd in the slightest tht it isn't the bride doing this communication.


----------



## mcamy (Aug 23, 2004)

Personally, I would go and take my toddler. I would skip the ceremony and go to the reception with my child. If my child is not wanted at the ceremony, I would also not feel comfortable leaving her with anyone else in a strange city.

Now, If your child is also not welcome at the reception, I would say screw it and cancel the trip.


----------



## seemfrog (Mar 30, 2006)

Well, I had a similar situation myself earlier this summer.
My husbands cousin was getting married (half way across the country), I never figured we'd go with twin toddler boys, but MIL bought us 2 tickets (oh great, toddlers on laps for many hours)! We got there, and the NIGHT BEFORE DH's mom tells us that they have everything all arranged, there will be 2 girls "trustworthy kids who help out at their church nursery" who will take care of the boys during the rehersal dinner as well as during the ceremony. But the boys were "welcome" to come to the reception. First of all everything was pretty much past their bedtimes due to the time change AND the night time events...
I personally was PISSED: "WHY DID WE FLY ACROSS THE COUNTRY TO NOT GO!"
We ended up taking the boys to the rehersal dinner, and there were kids ALL over the place. Part of the thing for that night was worrying about enough plates of food, and we assured them they would not be eating it anyhow. There were calls made from MIL and other aunts there to their brother (father of bride) and we went. It was fine, except the boys were extremely tired and we left early, no biggie.
The next night my DH convinced me that we could try the babysitters, the ceremony would be short, they could call us if needed, they could stay in our hotel room, etc etc I basically agreed to MEET the girls and watch them all interact before deciding... So we go downstairs and wait for them for 2 hrs. By this time the wedding ceremony had ENDED.
We went ahead to the reception (across from the hotel thankfully) and were the first ones there! By the time most of the people showed up the boys were done for the evening.

All in all I managed to have some fun, but am still confused about the whole thing. I think with things like weddings, so many people are involved with all the different aspects and it can get mixed up and confused and who knows what happens and who decides things...

I would stay in the nursery with your child during the ceremony if I were you, and just enjoy the rest. When we met up with other family they were "joking" saying "oh, you didn't miss much, I wish I didn't go!" (these were husbands of family...) lol


----------



## ggs (Aug 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kavita* 
Okay. I'm going to disagree here.

If children are invited, generally they are included on the invitation. Such as, the envelope will be addressed to Mr. and Mrs. Joe Smith, and James Smith. The exclusion of a kid's name on an envelope is generally meant to denote that they are not invited. So if the invitation is not addressed specifically that way, or to "The Smith Family" I would never have assumed my kid was invited in the first place. It is not required, nor is it technically proper, to write "child free wedding" or "no children" because it's assumed that guests will understand that only the people listed on the invitation are actually invited. Now I have heard some people say that nursing babes in arms are automatically invited anywhere that mothers are in term of the rules of etiquette, but I'm not sure that most people are even aware of that when doing their wedding inviting, and I am also not sure that it does or should apply to a toddler who is capable of running around under their own steam and can generally go without nursing for a few hours while their mothers are gone.

In terms of whether an adult sneezed or whatever, that's just a silly argument. Adults have presumably learned that a prolonged level of noise is unacceptable behavior during a wedding ceremony and will try to hush themselves or excuse themselves. I know that at weddings my DD has been invited to, it's been actually really stressful for me to try to keep my DD quiet to adult standards, especially when the only route of escape from the church/chapel is the door in the back where the bridal procession is going to be going on!

People should be able to try to create the wedding experience they want, and if that doesn't involve a church full of babies/toddlers/children then that's their prerogative. Also, it can be prohibitively expensive to have children there--I know for our wedding if we invited all toddlers/young children of people we knew, that would have meant not inviting about half of the adult family and friends that we wanted to have there or it would have cost a lot more money, and would have meant changing the venue because the place we wanted/could afford couldn't fit more than a certain number of people.

So I think that actually they are being gracious by trying to provide accomodations that they didn't think they would need to for a child they didn't intent to invite but who is obviously being brought anyway, a week before their wedding.

As far as the aunt telling you, well, that is often the case--I know that a week before my wedding I was pretty swamped with other details and obligations, and generally it's the mother of the bride or groom who takes on some of the responsibility for dealing with things like that. Especially "uncomfortable situations" which this clearly is--they can't be really thrilled either right about now. They are probably on a wedding planning forum somewhere right this minute complaining, "OMG, it's a week before the wedding and my cousin is bringing her kid who we didn't invite, we wanted to not have kids at our wedding, and now we have to figure out how to keep it so he doesn't make noise or run around all throughout the ceremony without disinviting her, and now all the other people who are leaving their kids home with a babysitter are going to be pissed because they will think we invited her kid but not theirs."


Quote:


Originally Posted by *pumpkin* 
Wait, his name was on the invite and now they are saying he isn't welcome?

Or did you just assume he could come even though he wasn't listed?

If its the first, then I would be really upset, if its the second, well, I think they are being incredibly gracious trying to come up with a solution to the misunderstanding that was in no way their fault. Its also not unusual for another family member to handle some of the tasks associated with the wedding, so I would not think it odd in the slightest tht it isn't the bride doing this communication.









:

If the invitation was only addressed to "Mr. and Mrs. OP" and not "The OP family," then I can't see where the bride/groom/aunt acted unreasonably-- they didn't "disinvite" the child, because the child wasn't invited in the first place. If this is the case, I think your aunt is actually being pretty considerate by trying to find alternative child care arrangements for you (although asking your niece who, I"m assuming, was also invited to the wedding, to watch DS is pretty rude).

Also, do you know for certain that children are invited to the reception? My concern would be that if the invitation was only addressed to "Mr and Mrs OP", that children weren't invited to any part of the event, period.

If children were invited, and are now being disinvited, well, I think that's pretty tacky and inconsiderate, especially considering you are coming from out of town. If that's the case, I likely wouldn't go.

Bottom line for me is, the bride and groom have the right to invited whoever the heck they want to-- it's their wedding. However, I have the right to decline as I see fit, including when my children aren't invited and I cannot secure appropriate childcare.


----------



## Sarahbunny (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pumpkin* 
Wait, his name was on the invite and now they are saying he isn't welcome?

Or did you just assume he could come even though he wasn't listed?

If its the first, then I would be really upset, if its the second, well, I think they are being incredibly gracious trying to come up with a solution to the misunderstanding that was in no way their fault. Its also not unusual for another family member to handle some of the tasks associated with the wedding, so I would not think it odd in the slightest tht it isn't the bride doing this communication.

I agree with pumpkin! Except for the part about it being ok that the aunt contacted you. It's the bride and groom who sent the invitation. If it needed clarification, then they should have been the ones to clarify, imo.


----------



## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

I would not go.


----------



## jest (Oct 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pumpkin* 
Wait, his name was on the invite and now they are saying he isn't welcome?

Or did you just assume he could come even though he wasn't listed?

If its the first, then I would be really upset, if its the second, well, I think they are being incredibly gracious trying to come up with a solution to the misunderstanding that was in no way their fault. Its also not unusual for another family member to handle some of the tasks associated with the wedding, so I would not think it odd in the slightest tht it isn't the bride doing this communication.

I agree with this and I agree with everything that Kavita said.


----------



## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sarahbunny* 
I agree with pumpkin! Except for the part about it being ok that the aunt contacted you. It's the bride and groom who sent the invitation. If it needed clarification, then they should have been the ones to clarify, imo.

Actually, technically, it's often the parents of the bride who are doing the "inviting", as in, "Mr. and Mrs. Joe Schmoe invite you to the marriage of their daughter, Susan Diane, to Mr. John Paul Jones."


----------



## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pumpkin* 
Wait, his name was on the invite and now they are saying he isn't welcome?

Or did you just assume he could come even though he wasn't listed?

If its the first, then I would be really upset, if its the second, well, I think they are being incredibly gracious trying to come up with a solution to the misunderstanding that was in no way their fault. Its also not unusual for another family member to handle some of the tasks associated with the wedding, so I would not think it odd in the slightest tht it isn't the bride doing this communication.

ITA. I'm also confused about whether the OP's DS was specifically invited on the invitation or not, and whether he's now welcome at the reception or not. In either case, poor Donna shouldn't have to miss the ceremony to babysit if she's looking forward to attending the whole wedding, as she presumably is since she's sitting through a layover flight for it.

That said, I can see where you're coming from, OP -- even if it was a misunderstanding, it sucks to have your expectations take such a drastic turn after all the planning has been done.


----------



## mommy2abigail (Aug 20, 2005)

It's interesting to hear that everyone is 'supposed' to know that children aren't invited. At our wedding, I thought it was weird when people asked if children were invited. I kept thinking, "Of course! It's a family affair!!" I thought it was so weird that people would be willing to drive or fly to our wedding and NOT take their kids. I just 'assumed' that when we sent an invite, we meant it for the entire family, not just the adults, or teens, or anyone BUT babies and toddlers! So no, not everyone just assumes that. And no, it's not traditional/normal for all cultures to exclude certain family members based on age. In our culture, everyone comes to the wedding. So if I'm invited to a wedding, I automatically assume it includes dd and any future children. Unless the invite specifically said no children, I would never have known.
As for it costing so much more, our caterer made kids meals for really cheap. Maybe 1/4 of the price? I can't remember, but I know it was a lot less expensive.


----------



## charliemae (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ggs* 







:

If the invitation was only addressed to "Mr. and Mrs. OP" and not "The OP family," *then I can't see where the bride/groom/aunt acted unreasonably-- they didn't "disinvite" the child, because the child wasn't invited in the first place.* If this is the case, I think your aunt is actually being pretty considerate by trying to find alternative child care arrangements for you (although asking your niece who, I"m assuming, was also invited to the wedding, to watch DS is pretty rude).

Also, do you know for certain that children are invited to the reception? My concern would be that if the invitation was only addressed to "Mr and Mrs OP", that children weren't invited to any part of the event, period.

If children were invited, and are now being disinvited, well, I think that's pretty tacky and inconsiderate, especially considering you are coming from out of town. If that's the case, I likely wouldn't go.

Bottom line for me is, the bride and groom have the right to invited whoever the heck they want to-- it's their wedding. However, I have the right to decline as I see fit, including when my children aren't invited and I cannot secure appropriate childcare.

I think what PPs meant about dis inviting was the niece. The Niece was invited to the wedding and is now being volunteered to watch baby during the ceremony. So wither the child was invited or not, there is still an issue there.

If there was a miscommunication then why wasn't it discovered before now?

IMO I would either just go to the reception like others suggested; or not go at all. For me it depends on who is getting married and my personal family relationships and politics.


----------



## <~*MamaRose*~> (Mar 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy2abigail* 
It's interesting to hear that everyone is 'supposed' to know that children aren't invited. At our wedding, I thought it was weird when people asked if children were invited. I kept thinking, "Of course! It's a family affair!!" I thought it was so weird that people would be willing to drive or fly to our wedding and NOT take their kids. I just 'assumed' that when we sent an invite, we meant it for the entire family, not just the adults, or teens, or anyone BUT babies and toddlers! So no, not everyone just assumes that. And no, it's not traditional/normal for all cultures to exclude certain family members based on age. In our culture, everyone comes to the wedding. So if I'm invited to a wedding, I automatically assume it includes dd and any future children. Unless the invite specifically said no children, I would never have known.
As for it costing so much more, our caterer made kids meals for really cheap. Maybe 1/4 of the price? I can't remember, but I know it was a lot less expensive.

When I was younger somehow this came up and my mopm explained it to me so I knew about the whole "watch out for how invites are addressed thing" when I started to get invited to functions (and this applies to more than just weddings) so it's not a surprise to me at all







!

Can anyone here honestly say that they have received an invite to a wedding that stated "adults only"?!?!? I think I would totally shocked if I ever got one worded that way instead of the proper way.

As pp's have stated when you receive an invite it is important to pay attention to WHO the invite is addressed to! If it's the whole family then the invite would clearly state "XXXX Family" on the invite and not "Mr & Mrs. XXXX" or "Mr/Ms. XXXX & Guest". Also usually the RSVP card asks you to state how many people are coming so the telephone call might have been because your RSVP'd with 3 people instead of the expected 2 kwim.

Honestly though without knowing what the invite said it's hard to know what the right answer to the question is.

Oh and as someone else mentioned OP needs to find out if baby is invited to the meal and dance or are they expecting the baby to not attend at all.


----------



## veganf (Dec 12, 2005)

I think it's appalling not to allow children at a wedding, any kind of wedding, and then ask them to be in the photos afterwards.







:

But I always ask before rsvp'ing and I just decline any of those weird no-child functions.


----------



## Momtwice (Nov 21, 2001)

1. what everyone else said about how it depends on how the envelope is addressed.

2. I find it extremely rude that children who are not invited are expected to be in family photos! That is the rudest thing I've ever heard! And it's a lie because it implies that they are invited when they are not.


----------



## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

I used too design wedding invitations. If a person is invited to a wedding they should be mentioned on the invitation, no matter what their age. You wouldn't assume you could bring your grandmother along with you to a freinds wedding just b/c she is old, so why should one assume they can bring their child just b/c they are young.

If your DS was actually invited to the wedding then uninviting him is extremely rude and it is quite reasonable to contact your aunt to say that you are unhappy with leaving your DS in the care of your niece who should not have to miss the wedding anyway.


----------



## <~*MamaRose*~> (Mar 4, 2007)

Not everyone is all gushy over children and think they should be everywhere anytime. I think it is fine for someone to want to have a wedding or any other function for that matter that is an adult only affair...it's their affair so therefore there choice. You do have the option of declining the invite.

This post is in response to the various posters that would be sooo offended or are shocked that this happens.


----------



## BoringTales (Aug 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kavita* 
Okay. I'm going to disagree here.

If children are invited, generally they are included on the invitation. Such as, the envelope will be addressed to Mr. and Mrs. Joe Smith, and James Smith. The exclusion of a kid's name on an envelope is generally meant to denote that they are not invited. So if the invitation is not addressed specifically that way, or to "The Smith Family" I would never have assumed my kid was invited in the first place. It is not required, nor is it technically proper, to write "child free wedding" or "no children" because it's assumed that guests will understand that only the people listed on the invitation are actually invited. Now I have heard some people say that nursing babes in arms are automatically invited anywhere that mothers are in term of the rules of etiquette, but I'm not sure that most people are even aware of that when doing their wedding inviting, and I am also not sure that it does or should apply to a toddler who is capable of running around under their own steam and can generally go without nursing for a few hours while their mothers are gone.

In terms of whether an adult sneezed or whatever, that's just a silly argument. Adults have presumably learned that a prolonged level of noise is unacceptable behavior during a wedding ceremony and will try to hush themselves or excuse themselves. I know that at weddings my DD has been invited to, it's been actually really stressful for me to try to keep my DD quiet to adult standards, especially when the only route of escape from the church/chapel is the door in the back where the bridal procession is going to be going on!

People should be able to try to create the wedding experience they want, and if that doesn't involve a church full of babies/toddlers/children then that's their prerogative. Also, it can be prohibitively expensive to have children there--I know for our wedding if we invited all toddlers/young children of people we knew, that would have meant not inviting about half of the adult family and friends that we wanted to have there or it would have cost a lot more money, and would have meant changing the venue because the place we wanted/could afford couldn't fit more than a certain number of people.

So I think that actually they are being gracious by trying to provide accomodations that they didn't think they would need to for a child they didn't intent to invite but who is obviously being brought anyway, a week before their wedding.

As far as the aunt telling you, well, that is often the case--I know that a week before my wedding I was pretty swamped with other details and obligations, and generally it's the mother of the bride or groom who takes on some of the responsibility for dealing with things like that. Especially "uncomfortable situations" which this clearly is--they can't be really thrilled either right about now. They are probably on a wedding planning forum somewhere right this minute complaining, "OMG, it's a week before the wedding and my cousin is bringing her kid who we didn't invite, we wanted to not have kids at our wedding, and now we have to figure out how to keep it so he doesn't make noise or run around all throughout the ceremony without disinviting her, and now all the other people who are leaving their kids home with a babysitter are going to be pissed because they will think we invited her kid but not theirs."


Quote:


Originally Posted by *mcamy* 
Personally, I would go and take my toddler. I would skip the ceremony and go to the reception with my child. If my child is not wanted at the ceremony, I would also not feel comfortable leaving her with anyone else in a strange city.

Now, If your child is also not welcome at the reception, I would say screw it and cancel the trip.

I agree with all of that...

If it were me and it was something I'd overlooked, I'd probably skip the ceremony and go to the reception. I'm assuming you can't get a refund on your tickets anyway, so why waste the money?

Either that or if my 16 month old was weaned I'd consider leaving him at home with dad.


----------



## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Maybe they are letting you know this late because they assumed you understood your toddler was not invited. Then they heard somehow you were planning on bringing him.

I wouldn't feel too put out by the nursery offer. Even though I understand the "proper" way to address an envelope and would have known he was not invited if his name does not appear on the envelope, I think it's perfectly understandable for you to have been confused. So many do not follow what have now become older traditions. If I were to get married in the future, well if I got married kids would be welcome at my wedding but for the sake of example, if I did not want kids there I would include a separate hand written noted in the invitation for those that had kids explaining. I would never assume in this day and age everyone would know what it means to only write the parents names on the invitation.


----------



## missys__mom (Sep 14, 2006)

StrugglingMomX's2 said:


> Not everyone is all gushy over children and think they should be everywhere anytime. I think it is fine for someone to want to have a wedding or any other function for that matter that is an adult only affair...it's their affair so therefore there choice. You do have the option of declining the invite.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StrugglingMomX's2* 
Not everyone is all gushy over children and think they should be everywhere anytime. I think it is fine for someone to want to have a wedding or any other function for that matter that is an adult only affair...it's their affair so therefore there choice. *You do have the option of declining the invite.*

This post is in response to the various posters that would be sooo offended or are shocked that this happens.

Yeah but she accepted the invite and bought tickets believing her DC was invited.

As for paying attention to the invite, in general I agree with this (if the child was older) but everyone in my family knows that if I am there, DD is most likely there. It wouldn't occur to me that my family would think otherwise because I don't leave DD with a sitter. Ever. (not that I don't want to but I can't and that is another post) IMO, nursing-age babies are appendages of their mothers and whether or not the baby was on the invitation is completely beside the point. I would TA if the child was 5 though.


----------



## <~*MamaRose*~> (Mar 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lalaland42* 
Yeah but she accepted the invite and bought tickets believing her DC was invited.

No I totally understood that part and I actually strayed a bit from the OP when I made my last comment...it was more of a "keep that in mind" sort of post.


----------



## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

why don't YOU stay with your son in the nursery, and let the niece go? That solves about 3 problems -- the niece can go, you have someone you trust, and you can honor the wishes of the bride and groom (who admittedly have taken themselves off into wedding la-la land, but that's their prerogative.) Then you can all go to the reception. Wedding ceremonies themselves are pretty dull, by and large, and the reception is where the fun is.

I wouldn't want to take a 16 month old to a wedding service. Even at age 3, our daughter is a bit iffy to sit for 30 minutes in a boring environment. And we go to church regularly, so she knows the drill.


----------



## nascarbebe (Nov 4, 2006)

Since it's not the bride and groom asking you just pretend you never got the email. Get your little one all dressed up and take her to the church. Ask to be seated toward the back and at the end of the row. If your little one is not a perfect angel just slip out when you think she might ruin their perfect dignified ceremony.


----------



## rainyday (Apr 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momtwice* 
1. what everyone else said about how it depends on how the envelope is addressed.

2. I find it extremely rude that children who are not invited are expected to be in family photos! That is the rudest thing I've ever heard! And it's a lie because it implies that they are invited when they are not.

I don't find it rude at all to have children who are not at the ceremony in photos afterward, especially if, as in this case, they are welcome at the reception. Weddings are one of the few occasions where the whole extended family (by this I don't necessarily mean children, I mean adult siblings, cousins, etc.) may be together. In many families, it's only at occasions like this or at reunions every few years where it's possible to get a photograph of the whole extended family. Photos taken after a wedding are not always just to document the ceremony itself!

And I agree completely with everything Kavita said.

I would try to not be offended, and as a PP suggested, go to the reception and skip the ceremony. It's also possible if it's at a church that there might be a "cry room" in which the OP and her child could sit during the ceremony. Maybe the bride and groom or the mother of the bride could have handled the situation better, but remember, it's a stressful time with a lot going on for all of them. I think the mother's suggestion that Donna could stay with the toddler was her attempt to make it work for everybody, and rather than be offended at her insensitivity, I'd be more inclined to appreciate the thought behind it (that she wants to make the ceremony the way her daughter and future SIL want it and she wants to accommodate the OP) and attend the reception because family is more important than some silly rift over whether the OP should have been give more notice or whether she should have known because the child's name may not have been on the invite. And really, most wedding ceremonies are not all that exciting; I like seeing them, but for me the best part of a wedding is mingling with friends and family at gatherings before and after the wedding!


----------



## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nascarbebe* 
Since it's not the bride and groom asking you just pretend you never got the email. Get your little one all dressed up and take her to the church. Ask to be seated toward the back and at the end of the row. If your little one is not a perfect angel just slip out when you think she might ruin their perfect dignified ceremony.

It's the mother of the bride though, right? I think when it comes to weddings it should be assumed that the mother of the bride speaks for the brides wishes in a case like this.


----------



## NotAMama (Jul 26, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nascarbebe* 
Since it's not the bride and groom asking you just pretend you never got the email. Get your little one all dressed up and take her to the church. Ask to be seated toward the back and at the end of the row. If your little one is not a perfect angel just slip out when you think she might ruin their perfect dignified ceremony.

Wow. If anything, this "solution" is even more rude than the mother-of-the-groom's clarifying email.


----------



## momofsage (Dec 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pixilixi* 
I would consider (if it were me) going to the church and staying with my ds in the nursery room during the ceremony. Then joining everyone for the socialising afterward.

What she said. It might be the best compromise, and it puts you on the moral high ground (if you want to be there). Plus, you sort of get to make a point--if you're willing to make it that way.

Good luck with this!

Jen


----------



## newbymom05 (Aug 13, 2005)

I'm w/ the Kavita crowd. Weddings can be very stressful, and I can totally see asking someone else to be the heavy (send the clarifying email) in this situation. I imagine the bride has a million other concerns at the moment and personally, I think that was really nice that they arranged child care for you, even if it wasn't your plan.

I know when I got married I had zero toddler experience and I just assumed everyone planned on leaving their babies at home. Now of course I know differently re: the child care issues, but I would rather NOT subject my 2 y/o to a quiet sit-down ceremony. Neither one of us would have any fun. I would cut the couple some slack. After all, it is their big day. They'll only be married once but your DC will attend many more weddings.
_*
Since it's not the bride and groom asking you just pretend you never got the email. Get your little one all dressed up and take her to the church. Ask to be seated toward the back and at the end of the row. If your little one is not a perfect angel just slip out when you think she might ruin their perfect dignified ceremony.*_

That is so crazy rude! It isn't as if this is some personal toddler vendetta. Your wedding is the one day when you get to be the center of attention, the princess, whatever--don't be a spoiler on some bizarre principle that your kid and your convenience is the most important thing in the universe (not that the OP is coming across that way--just that crazy-a**ed suggestion!).


----------



## <~*MamaRose*~> (Mar 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nascarbebe* 
Since it's not the bride and groom asking you just pretend you never got the email. Get your little one all dressed up and take her to the church. Ask to be seated toward the back and at the end of the row. If your little one is not a perfect angel just slip out when you think she might ruin their perfect dignified ceremony.









:That is REALLY REALLY bad advice IMO!


----------



## NotAMama (Jul 26, 2003)

This is just to add -- the week before my wedding, I had a million and one things to do AND I wanted to be on hand to pick up arriving family from the airport. I wanted to have time to spend with my cousins and such, plus I was still feverishly putting together wedding favors and making goody bags for the kids party/dinner and arranging flowers. I was so busy I barely had time to eat (I survived on protein smoothies that my beloved made for me!







)

My mom and my maid-of-honor took over A LOT for me -- taking phone calls, making decisions. My maid-of-honor ran interference for me with the bridal store when they didn't have my dress done on Thursday as promised, and she drove the 80 mile round trip to pick it up on Friday. She absolutely had my blessing to speak on my behalf at any time.

It is not uncommon for the mothers of the bride and groom or members of the bridal party to run interference in the week or so before the wedding.


----------



## GalateaDunkel (Jul 22, 2005)

The whole 'children are automatically excluded unless stated otherwise' only applies to WASP culture. Which is what I hate about the whole idea of a 'standard' etiquette. In my culture if I showed up to a wedding without my kid everyone would be like 'where is she???!!!' and if I said 'oh but you didn't mention her by name' they would send me to have my head checked. I know of several other cultures where this would also hold.

I can't conceive expecting a mother to go out of town without her child.


----------



## karre (Mar 22, 2006)

While i completely sympathisize with you about this issue, I do not think that typically people put "child free wedding" on invitations. We were invited to a wedding when DS was an infant and were emailed (by the bride) regarding the no kids policy. I actually had DH email the groom to ask if that included breastfeeding babes in arms. The groom said it did. we then asked if it would be ok to attend the ceremony without our son but to bring him to the reception and we were told our son was NOT welcome at the reception either. When we got to the reception though at least one child (WHO WAS NOT IN THE CEREMONY) had a handwritten by the bride placecard and toddlers even arrived. It is possible that the parents of the toddlers were not aware of the no kids policy and i guess that it would even be OK if they made an exception for the two childern with placecards but i was kind of ticked since my little guy was still exclusiviely breastfed and it was the first time i had left him alone. Anyway we left because it just wasn't worth it to be without him....and the whole situation was sort of awkward anyway.

I agree more notice would have been appropriate since you had to make travel arrangements to attend the wedding and this information might have prevented you from accepting the invitation.


----------



## Fiddlemom (Oct 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mcamy* 
Personally, I would go and take my toddler. I would skip the ceremony and go to the reception with my child. If my child is not wanted at the ceremony, I would also not feel comfortable leaving her with anyone else in a strange city.

Now, If your child is also not welcome at the reception, I would say screw it and cancel the trip.

ditto!


----------



## Beckula (Mar 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GalateaDunkel* 
The whole 'children are automatically excluded unless stated otherwise' only applies to WASP culture. Which is what I hate about the whole idea of a 'standard' etiquette. In my culture if I showed up to a wedding without my kid everyone would be like 'where is she???!!!' and if I said 'oh but you didn't mention her by name' they would send me to have my head checked. I know of several other cultures where this would also hold.

I can't conceive expecting a mother to go out of town without her child.

Thank you Thank You, everything I wanted to say myself. Not a WASP either and this practice just floors me. I personally can't understand the point of a weding without kids of ALL ages attending regardless of the noises they make. I've never been to a Mass where I haven't heard a kid scream, it would seem unatural to me and does the few other churches I've ever been too (like my other grandparents church where they stick the kids in Sunday School during the services). I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it, it just isn't my culture so no it would never ever occure to me that my Kids were not invited to any family function and especially not a wedding.


----------



## apple_dumpling (Oct 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GalateaDunkel* 
The whole 'children are automatically excluded unless stated otherwise' only applies to WASP culture. Which is what I hate about the whole idea of a 'standard' etiquette. In my culture if I showed up to a wedding without my kid everyone would be like 'where is she???!!!' and if I said 'oh but you didn't mention her by name' they would send me to have my head checked. I know of several other cultures where this would also hold.

I can't conceive expecting a mother to go out of town without her child.

Well, I probably would be considered a 'WASP' and I don't really understand this either







We have a big extended family, and even close friends and all wouldn't think to put dd's name on an invitation - it would just be assumed by everyone that she would be going to whatever the event was.

Now I do have some friends who are not so close where this wouldn't be the case, and I would have to call to see what their intentions were, but I've always just assumed that dd is invited unless it states otherwise. Especially with small children, it just seems like the person who is inviting you would realize that you are going to be bringing them, and just state otherwise if they'd prefer you didn't so you could choose whether or not to go.

OP if it was me, I'd probably still go but I'd skip the ceremony part and watch ds myself... you probably can't get a refund on your plane tickets at this point anyway, right? (unless you purchased that extra insurance on them which I never, ever do







: )


----------



## hanachan (Aug 19, 2006)

hi cathy
i was really happy to see that lots of mamas offered you varying perspectives and advice. so i'm here too to put my pennies in.
first, only you really know what attending this wedding means to you, and how far you'd go to do it.

while it may be true that it is not considered necessary to print a 'children please stay home' on one's wedding invitation, it is still common practice, and if i received an invitation that did not state it specifically, i would (perhaps erronously, apparently) assume that because my family is aware that i am a mom of a nursing child, that child is invited/allowed to attend whatever social function i am being invited to, particularly family celebrations. i guess now we all realise nothing is to be assumed, and from now on, we'll confirm that our children are welcome where we are.

that still of course does not solve your current dilemna.

i thought that the pretend email for your aunt that someone suggested on this board was a brilliant well-written mockup. it was polite, yet clear.

i guess that leaves you with the following options: leave james with your neice (who was also invited to the wedding as a guest - but there's no harm in asking her - however i would still be stuck on the fact that my son doesn't know her), or the church nursery staff (whom he knows even less), pay for a last minute flight for someone your child does know to care for him while you attend the ceremony, watch him yourself during the ceremony and join everyone together afterwards, or politely, regretfully decline the invite.

i believe that if you are mindful and loving about the way you communicate why you feel you must decline (merely state the truth : i must have misunderstood the idea that james would be welcome at the ceremony. i regret that i'm not comfortable leaving him with someone he doesn't know during your wedding. at this late understanding, i regret that i feel my best option is to wish you well from home, and hopefully we may plan another visit when your life together has calmed down a little and you are ready for guests,' or something of the sort. it seems to me that if you leave james with someone else (even someone YOU feel comfortable with , but you know james has just met and doesn't know as well), you'll just be distracted and thinking about him the whole wedding anyway. at least that's how i would be. just trust in what feels right to you.

i wish you well!
jen (and kavi) -


----------



## FarmerCathy (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *devster4fun* 
I'm not sure I would cancel all your plans over this. I think there has to be a compromise somewhere...personally, I think everyone should be invited to a wedding. That being said, I just can't imagine my 16 month old in a church, when it's quiet. I can just see the bride about to say, "I do" and my DD screams out, "KITTY CAT!!!" I also don't think she would hold still for longer than about 15 seconds.

Maybe all the toys in the nursery would hold your DS attention for long enough to get through the ceremony. Most weddings I've been to are 30-45 min, an hour at the longest. You could always sit near the back and sneak out if you had to.

And, your DS will get familiar with Donna during the trip...he may really like and gravitate to her and all would be fine in the end.

This is just me...I don't think *this* issue is worth a family rift. But, I tend to compromise to keep the peace and pick my battles.

PS...Have you moved to the 'burbs yet?

Hi! Yeah, we did move to the burbs.
My ds is pretty good at just hanging out on my lap esp. with a whole church full of people around us he doesn't know. He will probably nurse and fall asleep anyway since it will be around his nap time and I wasn't really worried about it. This is my Aunt for you though. She is kinda snobby sometimes and sticks her foot in her mouth to our side of the family esp. when we might potentially embarrass her in front of people she wants to impress.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pumpkin* 
Wait, his name was on the invite and now they are saying he isn't welcome?

Or did you just assume he could come even though he wasn't listed?

If its the first, then I would be really upset, if its the second, well, I think they are being incredibly gracious trying to come up with a solution to the misunderstanding that was in no way their fault. Its also not unusual for another family member to handle some of the tasks associated with the wedding, so I would not think it odd in the slightest tht it isn't the bride doing this communication.

I don't remember if his name was on the invitation envelope or not, but I personally e-mailed them a month and a half ago that specifically myself, my ds, and my niece were attending and my cousin and my aunt e-mailed me back about it. I did this at the same time I mailed my reply. So, they definately knew and could bring it up then if that was the case.


----------



## FarmerCathy (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hanachan* 
hi cathy
i was really happy to see that lots of mamas offered you varying perspectives and advice. so i'm here too to put my pennies in.
first, only you really know what attending this wedding means to you, and how far you'd go to do it.

while it may be true that it is not considered necessary to print a 'children please stay home' on one's wedding invitation, it is still common practice, and if i received an invitation that did not state it specifically, i would (perhaps erronously, apparently) assume that because my family is aware that i am a mom of a nursing child, that child is invited/allowed to attend whatever social function i am being invited to, particularly family celebrations. i guess now we all realise nothing is to be assumed, and from now on, we'll confirm that our children are welcome where we are.

that still of course does not solve your current dilemna.

i thought that the pretend email for your aunt that someone suggested on this board was a brilliant well-written mockup. it was polite, yet clear.

i guess that leaves you with the following options: leave james with your neice (who was also invited to the wedding as a guest - but there's no harm in asking her - however i would still be stuck on the fact that my son doesn't know her), or the church nursery staff (whom he knows even less), pay for a last minute flight for someone your child does know to care for him while you attend the ceremony, watch him yourself during the ceremony and join everyone together afterwards, or politely, regretfully decline the invite.

i believe that if you are mindful and loving about the way you communicate why you feel you must decline (merely state the truth : i must have misunderstood the idea that james would be welcome at the ceremony. i regret that i'm not comfortable leaving him with someone he doesn't know during your wedding. at this late understanding, i regret that i feel my best option is to wish you well from home, and hopefully we may plan another visit when your life together has calmed down a little and you are ready for guests,' or something of the sort. it seems to me that if you leave james with someone else (even someone YOU feel comfortable with , but you know james has just met and doesn't know as well), you'll just be distracted and thinking about him the whole wedding anyway. at least that's how i would be. just trust in what feels right to you.

i wish you well!
jen (and kavi) -









Jen. I did send an e-mail to my aunt, very nice and thought out and basically saying we would not be able to attend because we did not make arrangements for my dh to come and watch ds while I attended the wedding.
She promptly called and left a message totally backtracking saying she only meant that the nursery was an option if James became fussy. She's so full of it since she clearly stated kid-free and no babies or toddlers in her e-mail. Whatever.


----------



## momz3 (May 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StrugglingMomX's2* 
Not everyone is all gushy over children and think they should be everywhere anytime. I think it is fine for someone to want to have a wedding or any other function for that matter that is an adult only affair...it's their affair so therefore there choice. You do have the option of declining the invite.

This post is in response to the various posters that would be sooo offended or are shocked that this happens.

yep. As a mom of 2 young kids (who have truly wilded out on me in public







), I would not find that offensive at all. And as you said, you have very right to decline the invite.


----------



## wagamama (Jul 3, 2006)

My honest opinion is that you are overreacting. Granted, telling you a week before the wedding was far too late, but providing a nursery and someone to watch your child was a reasonable option. I know that we are all different, but if it were me, I would be gracious and attend the wedding.


----------



## etoilech (Mar 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GalateaDunkel* 
The whole 'children are automatically excluded unless stated otherwise' only applies to WASP culture. Which is what I hate about the whole idea of a 'standard' etiquette. In my culture if I showed up to a wedding without my kid everyone would be like 'where is she???!!!' and if I said 'oh but you didn't mention her by name' they would send me to have my head checked. I know of several other cultures where this would also hold.

I can't conceive expecting a mother to go out of town without her child.

Yep, my family would think I was nuts.


----------



## etoilech (Mar 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mcamy* 
Personally, I would go and take my toddler. I would skip the ceremony and go to the reception with my child. If my child is not wanted at the ceremony, I would also not feel comfortable leaving her with anyone else in a strange city.

Now, If your child is also not welcome at the reception, I would say screw it and cancel the trip.

Yeah that.


----------



## Momtwice (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FarmerCathy* 







Jen. I did send an e-mail to my aunt, very nice and thought out and basically saying we would not be able to attend because we did not make arrangements for my dh to come and watch ds while I attended the wedding.
She promptly called and left a message totally backtracking saying she only meant that the nursery was an option if James became fussy. She's so full of it since she clearly stated kid-free and no babies or toddlers in her e-mail. Whatever.


This makes me wonder if it is HER opinion and not actually that of the bride and groom's. Is she taking over?


----------



## madskye (Feb 20, 2006)

I'm glad that worked out! Sounds like your Aunt got a little over-zealous in her duties.


----------



## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momtwice* 
This makes me wonder if it is HER opinion and not actually that of the bride and groom's. Is she taking over?

I had a similar problem with a party I was attending recently.

We had all (DH, DS, and I) been invited to this b-day party. A freind of ours, who was helping out with the party, called and was making a fuss about how there had to be someone who could watch DS for us eventhough we explained over and over that the only way we could come to the party was if we brought DS. DH said "well I guess we just won't go." I decided to check with the host of the party to see if he had a problem with us bringing DS. He said he didn't mind us bringing DS and he thought DS would get a kick out of playing with his giant chess set.

It only occured to me to check directly with the host b/c the freind who contacted us had many times in the past taken the liberty of _speaking for_ the host of the party without actually consulting him.







:


----------



## anarchamama (Mar 4, 2005)

: I'm glad things worked out for the OP, but wanted to comment on a few things. I would assume my kids were invited to any function like this, explicit or not, becuase they are de-facto family functions. To me the idea of not inviting the entire family to a function like this is silly. I believe the segregation of kids in our culture is bad for them, and in the end will be bad for all of us, but thats a nother topic entirely. That being said my 19 month old is a wild man and I would use my judgement and not bring him as it would be pure torture for both of us. OTOH my 4 year old is laid back and well mannered and more than capable of sitting through a short (under an hour) formal event, I think it's important for him to go a)so he has experiences doing these things b)so he feels included and trusted c)so he has a chance to think about what the ceremony means, the same reasons that everyone else wants to go. So, honestly, if I was invited to a no-kids event like that unless it was a sibling or someone who I absoloutly copuldn't refuse I simply wouldn't go. To me it would be like not inviting dh.

I don't care if some people don't love kids, as long as they are capable of behaving appropriatly (ie small infant/older child) then they shoudl be included anywhere my family is, I think kid free areas are as discriminatory as no(insert whomever) areas.

OTOH I would expect people to use common sense, my ds would far rather hang out in a nurerey with me or someone else then sit through that and I wouldn't subject him to totally unrealistic expectations, but every child is different.

I certainly wouldn't assume my kids weren't invited just because they were not on the invite. Dh's step-brother sent us an invite, the envelope was addressed to him, and the invite was essentially a form. Does that mean I'm not invited either? (oh please please please?)


----------



## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *anarchamama* 
Dh's step-brother sent us an invite, the envelope was addressed to him, and the invite was essentially a form. Does that mean I'm not invited either? (oh please please please?)









Yep, that means your DH is supposed to go alone. You and the kids can enjoy a day at the park or whatever you want. And if they ask why you didn't come you can just say that you hadn't been invited so you didn't realize you were expected.


----------



## angelcat (Feb 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LynnS6* 
why don't YOU stay with your son in the nursery, and let the niece go? That solves about 3 problems -- the niece can go, you have someone you trust, and you can honor the wishes of the bride and groom (who admittedly have taken themselves off into wedding la-la land, but that's their prerogative.) Then you can all go to the reception. Wedding ceremonies themselves are pretty dull, by and large, and the reception is where the fun is.

I wouldn't want to take a 16 month old to a wedding service. Even at age 3, our daughter is a bit iffy to sit for 30 minutes in a boring environment. And we go to church regularly, so she knows the drill.


Rachel has been to 4 weddings. One was in a church. She was 5 weeks, and i didn't want to bring her, but the bride and her mom insisted. She did fine.

The next 3 wedding were all within 2 weeks of her 1st b-day







: yeah it was a busy few weeks. Anyhow, the ceremonies were all outdoors, and that is the only way it worked. I did not get to stay thru the ceremony, I had to take her for a little walk every time. She did fine at all the receptions, though we did leave early.

She's 2 now, and I'd still be scared to take her to a church wedding. I'd likely just go in the nursery or wait the foyer and hope to hear/see as much as I could.


----------



## runes (Aug 5, 2004)

i would still go, but would point out the rudeness and presumptiousness of the mother of the bride volunteering your neice (in a nice way, natch







) by saying that in all fairness to dear neice as well as to your ds, she will be attending the ceremony and YOU will be the one in the infant room with your son, since you do not feel comfortable with leaving such a little one with someone that he doesn't know in a totally strange place, and your neice is not going to the wedding to be an impromptu babysitter.

it is bizarre that they want your ds in the photos, but what can you do? people reserve the right to get weird around their weddings...thus the whole bridezilla phenomenon...







:

it sounds like your ds is welcome at the reception, though...and i hope that you all have a wonderful time!

(in the meantime, perhaps it will work out that your ds will fall conveniently sound asleep right at the beginning of the ceremony and perhaps there will be a way for you to quietly and totally unobtrusively observe while wearing him in a sling...)


----------



## Avocado (Oct 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kavita* 
Okay. I'm going to disagree here.

If children are invited, generally they are included on the invitation. Such as, the envelope will be addressed to Mr. and Mrs. Joe Smith, and James Smith. The exclusion of a kid's name on an envelope is generally meant to denote that they are not invited. So if the invitation is not addressed specifically that way, or to "The Smith Family" I would never have assumed my kid was invited in the first place. It is not required, nor is it technically proper, to write "child free wedding" or "no children" because it's assumed that guests will understand that only the people listed on the invitation are actually
invited.









:


----------



## kissum (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm so glad it worked out.

I also wanted to say, I always assume DD is invited to family functions- she's part of the family!


----------



## anarchamama (Mar 4, 2005)

I have th eopposite problem, SIL wants both my kids to be in theri wedding party next summer. DS1 will be 5 and that's fine, DS2 will be 2 1/2 and he's a wild man! She is like "but they'll look so cute in little outfits and he'll be a year older by then" this woman knows nothing about children. I mean who knows maybe I'm underestimating ds, but all I can say is that they can't say we didn't warn them and whatever it is it shoul dbe funny.







KNowing ds he'll find a way to start pumping the organ or something during the ceremony, or light the church on fire.


----------



## schreiberwriter (Aug 3, 2005)

I wouldn't take my son to a wedding when he was 16 months old unless I had nursed him to sleep beforehand. He'd be wiggly and loud and distracting to me. So I would go to the nursery with him. I did this at my sister-in-law's wedding and it worked OK. The reception is the fun part anyway (which I hope you are both invited to).


----------



## millionmom (Oct 30, 2005)

I would still go on the trip, but just skip the wedding - I would HATE to take a 16 month old (or any toddler really!) to a wedding - heck, I hate going to them myself and would find any excuse possible to get out of it!!

But deifnetly go to the reception - that's the fun part!


----------



## FarmerCathy (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mcamy* 
Personally, I would go and take my toddler. I would skip the ceremony and go to the reception with my child. If my child is not wanted at the ceremony, I would also not feel comfortable leaving her with anyone else in a strange city.

Now, If your child is also not welcome at the reception, I would say screw it and cancel the trip.

Yeah, so this is what I decided to do, if they have a fit than that is fine. If my cousin confronts me then I will ask if he had the perfect ceremony and if he says yes, then I will say, "I thought that's what you wanted" or something that sounds really sweet. My niece and I are getting a ride from my Aunt and Uncle, the grooms mother's sister (did you get that?







), so I'm just going to tell them to call and pick us up after the ceremony and we will all go to the reception together. Hopefully that will work.
I called my cousin today and he told me all about weddings and such and that he had been to 50 in the last 10 yrs and that about 60% of them had been kid-free and how nice that was and that he would make an exception just for us. Yada, yada, yada. Didn't realize how snooty he has become. Hopefully he will realize how silly he is being when he has kids of his own. I just hope his new wife stays home with thier kids instead of someone else taking care of them like his 3 older brothers do. Why have kids if your going to have someone else take care of them?
Me and my niece will totally stand out too, what Californian doesn't when they go back East? The clothes, the breastfeeding toddler, you know the works, oh and I also printed out Illinois breastfeeding laws just in case someone tells me I can't. Thier laws are actually better than California's. Mom can breastfeed anywhere she is allowed to be public or private. In CA you can be asked to leave a private place like a restaurant. Go figure. Maybe my Aunt's family hasn't been exposed enough to this kind of mothering. Well, I'm coming to expose, in more than one way.


----------



## <~*MamaRose*~> (Mar 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FarmerCathy* 
Didn't realize how snooty he has become. Hopefully he will realize how silly he is being when he has kids of his own. I just hope his new wife stays home with thier kids instead of someone else taking care of them like his 3 older brothers do. Why have kids if your going to have someone else take care of them?









Why oh why did you bother saying this?????


----------



## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Why because she was showing how snooty her cousin is, of course.


----------



## Decca (Mar 14, 2006)

Well, there's a perfectly interesting topic gone down the toilet.....I wouldn't want someone who thought of me that way at my wedding anyway.

I just wanted to add that my family is far from WASPy and I would never in a million years assume children were invited if the names weren't on the envelope or it said "and family."


----------



## coobabysmom (Nov 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FarmerCathy* 
Didn't realize how snooty he has become. Hopefully he will realize how silly he is being when he has kids of his own. I just hope his new wife stays home with thier kids instead of someone else taking care of them like his 3 older brothers do. Why have kids if your going to have someone else take care of them?

This is an insensitive comment. Many loving attached parents work out of the house for various reasons. When will the mommy wars stop?







:


----------



## merry-mary (Aug 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *coobabysmom* 
This is an insenstive comment. Many loving attached parents work for various reasons. When will the mommy wars stop?







:

I completely agree. The OP had me in total agreement with her until this comment. Very insensitive, and hurtful, indeed.


----------



## ksera05 (Apr 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FarmerCathy* 
Didn't realize how snooty he has become. Hopefully he will realize how silly he is being when he has kids of his own. I just hope his new wife stays home with thier kids instead of someone else taking care of them like his 3 older brothers do. Why have kids if your going to have someone else take care of them?

I'm personally a SAHM and I think that comment was WAY out of line. Way out of line.







:


----------



## ggs (Aug 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FarmerCathy* 
I just hope his new wife stays home with thier kids instead of someone else taking care of them like his 3 older brothers do. Why have kids if your going to have someone else take care of them?

You are joking, right? Please say you are joking.

If not....wow, just wow. I can't even begin to describe how angry this statement makes me. All I can say, I'm glad my parents didn't share your narrow beliefs, because I wouldn't be here posting right now if they did.


----------



## Jenelle (Mar 12, 2004)

Ooooo, yeah. Way out of line!







And I am a SAHM too.

Whether to work or stay at home is a _very_ personal choice -- based on _many_ factors. Some people _have no choice_, and sometimes that is because of the many surprises that LIFE can hand out to you after you've already had children. And as for the people who go to work because they _choose_ to (like I am guessing your "snooty" cousins are)... why would you want them to be at home with their children all day if they don't feel in their heart that that's where they want to be? Sometimes Mommy is a better Mommy because she has had a freakin' break.


----------



## Peace4you (Sep 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FarmerCathy* 
I'm going to Chicago w/ my 16 mo next week for a wedding for my cousin and they just decided to inform me that there will be no babies or toddlers allowed at the wedding. How would you feel? If I was told this when I was invited to the wedding I may feel different or done something different like declined, but it is less than a week away.....

We found ourselves in the same situation recently. I was emailed by the mother of the bride (my husband's aunt) and told that the bride and groom wanted the ceremony to be special and as distraction free as possible so they asked if my 31 mo daughter isn't happy sitting quietly in the pew then we could take her out of the ceremony. Well, I don't know much, but I think that most 2 year olds are not going to SIT quietly in a pew.

I was slightly insulted by this email (emailed a month before the wedding so a little more time for us) because 1- I wouldn't sit in a ceremony and let my daughter get loud and distrupt the wedding... what kind of idiot am I? and 2- Our wedding was FULL of kids making noise and walking around. Mostly milling around. I have many nieces and nephews and they were all under 4 at the time and then there was our daughter who was 14 months at our wedding. So... Did they think OUR wedding wasn't "special?"

My first thought at this email was 'well i hope no one has a sneeze/cough during the ceremony because then it will be RUINED! 

My daughter has high functioning autism so she can't handle some sensory things and I'm very attuned to when she's going to lose it or not handle something. She's also on a GFCF diet. All things considered I decided that it wasn't worth the 4+ hour car ride and hotel stay to be at this wedding. Plus, DD is starting her special preschool a few days before this. So, I'm staying home with DD and DH is going to the wedding. We told them to cancel my food and the kids meal (even tho we wrote on the reply 'no kids meal' because of her special diet).

PS. I have no problem with people who want adult-only weddings but don't say it's not special with kids there when you WERE PRESENT at my wedding with tons of kids there. DUH!


----------



## FarmerCathy (Jun 28, 2005)

What I meant is that his brothers have someone who watches over thier kids like 24/7 and its like they had kids as a status symbol. No intention to hurt anyone on this board at all and yes I didn't think it all the way through before I posted it, but you can't stone me for feeling and seeing that they only had kids to look good. Yes, but the difference here is if you could stay home you would.


----------



## artemis80 (Sep 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FarmerCathy* 
What I meant is that his brothers have someone who watches over thier kids like 24/7 and its like they had kids as a status symbol. No intention to hurt anyone on this board at all and yes I didn't think it all the way through before I posted it, but you can't stone me for feeling and seeing that they only had kids to look good. Yes, but the difference here is if you could stay home you would.

WOW. Looks like you just put your foot even farther in your mouth!! NO, not everyone here would just stay home if they could. The choice to work out of the home or not is a huge, complicated issue, and one aspect is that some women feel that it's beneficial for their children to have parents who are fulfilled and have lives away from them.

This is just one issue to be weighed in making a decision; I'm not saying SAHM's aren't fulfilled or don't have lives, etc. I don't think that at all.

Also, why don't you think your snotty cousin should be the one to stay home himself if his wife wants to work?


----------



## Decca (Mar 14, 2006)

Quote:

Yes, but the difference here is if you could stay home you would.
Um, really? How nice that you know the motivations of everyone else and can judge if they are right or wrong.


----------



## Sheal (Apr 19, 2007)

Off topic: What is wasp culture?

Sheal


----------



## artemis80 (Sep 8, 2006)

White, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant


----------



## <~*MamaRose*~> (Mar 4, 2007)

You should have left your response as it was without what you came back to edit it too cause adding the last 2 sentences made feel







:all over again!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FarmerCathy* 
and yes I didn't think it all the way through before I posted it, but you can't stone me for feeling and seeing that they only had kids to look good. Yes, but the difference here is if you could stay home you would.


----------



## pumpkin (Apr 8, 2003)

WASP = white anglo-saxon protestant

And on that side note, the rules of invitations may be predominant in WASP culture, but as a non-WASP I can attest that they are common in many other cultures as well.


----------



## Equuskia (Dec 16, 2006)

I understand the comment. Here in Puerto Rican society, people are pressured to get married, then they are pressured to have kids. It's weird, I know, but I understand her comment. People are like...."And your son/daughter, when are they getting married.....they are getting old already!" [even tho they may be in their 20s] Then you have people asking their adult married children "So when are you going to give me a grandchild? The clock is ticking and you're not gonna be young forever!"

Then you have the attitude of "You're not a complete man/woman unless you marry and have kids/a family!" which is usually accompanied by "When are you going to get a real job/buy a house/get a new car/insert-other-none-of-their-business-issue-here?"

I guess if you've never experienced the above, the op's comment may come across as strange and even rude, but I have seen with my own two eyes, in my own extended family, people (my cousin comes to mind) that got married because he was an only child, and his parents weren't getting any younger, and they wanted to have grandchildren, etc. Thankfully no children were conceived because his wife divorced him because she got tired of fixing up the house and working and doing everything else while he was out getting sloshed and horseback riding with his drinking buddies. (Of course his mommy and daddy painted her out to be the bad bitch abusing their poor little boy. boohoo) But there is a lot of parental pressure in this (mine anyways) society for people to marry and have kids, even if they don't want to, just to placate their parents.

I have also seen how people do have children as a status symbol, ie: "I have x # of children, and they are outstanding, they go to XYZ private school (that costs a ridiculous amount a month) and have excellent grades, they play tennis and swim and dance and sing and play the piano and rub their tummy while patting their head and standing on one foot" just to get the, "Wow, you're so fortunate to have such wonderful children. What do you do to afford all of this?" which is then the shining moment for the parent to say just how hard they work at such-and-such job making x amount a year and they have a sports car and a Spanish style ranch and a full time nanny, cook and maid.









I don't know if this is the case with the op's brothers, but I just thought I'd offer an alternative view to the comment and my own experience. I totally understand the status symbol thing.


----------



## MiaPia (Aug 28, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FarmerCathy* 
What I meant is that his brothers have someone who watches over thier kids like 24/7 and its like they had kids as a status symbol. No intention to hurt anyone on this board at all and yes I didn't think it all the way through before I posted it, but you can't stone me for feeling and seeing that they only had kids to look good. Yes, but the difference here is if you could stay home you would.

I _choose_ to work outside of my home and am a better PERSON - therefore a better _mother_ - for doing it. Financially I do not need to work, but I could not imagine quitting.
I love my kids, and yes, I AM RAISING THEM.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pumpkin* 
WASP = white anglo-saxon protestant

And on that side note, the rules of invitations may be predominant in WASP culture, but as a non-WASP I can attest that they are common in many other cultures as well.

My husband and his family are most decidedly NOT WASP (they are Eastern-European Jews), and the above stated rules of invitations most definitely are used by them. If anything they are more stringent on the proper rules of etiquette than my half Catholic/half WASP-y family are.


----------



## artemis80 (Sep 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Equuskia* 
I have also seen how people do have children as a status symbol, ie: "I have x # of children, and they are outstanding, they go to XYZ private school (that costs a ridiculous amount a month) and have excellent grades, they play tennis and swim and dance and sing and play the piano and rub their tummy while patting their head and standing on one foot" just to get the, "Wow, you're so fortunate to have such wonderful children. What do you do to afford all of this?" which is then the shining moment for the parent to say just how hard they work at such-and-such job making x amount a year and they have a sports car and a Spanish style ranch and a full time nanny, cook and maid.









Sure, and that style of "parenting" is fairly abhorrent. But the OP didn't really say that's all that was going on. She said 1. You shouldn't have kids unless you're (the mom) going to stay home with them; and 2. She thought she was preaching to the choir because everyone on MDC would stay home if they could.

This thread is so going to get locked!


----------



## Sheal (Apr 19, 2007)

ok...I find that wasp comment very disturbing then...it's insulting (and I'm not protestant, I'm pagan). There are plenty of different family dynamics and cultures that have either no-kid or kid policies (or better yet, ideals is a better word) for weddings and other functions.

Myself, being that we are planning a wedding for August 08, have compromised with my family - the ceremony is for everyone, kids and adults however the reception is adult only BUT I am paying for the babysitting at the reception hall (they provide licensing daycare with a licensed daycare provider, their own room and everything too ON premesis).

Personally, I feel that since it's my request that the reception be adult only I should be obligated to provide a safe, healthy and productive environment with a babysitter\daycare oriented provider at my expense. I don't know if that makes sense, it's just what I feel I am obligated to do to ease the transition of my request about my reception.

(in all honesty, I'm trying to avoid a repeat of my sister's wedding and how my SIL's son purposely shoved her wedding cake over onto the floor...and yes it was on purpose - this kid has no boundaries\discipline and is allowed, even given permission to walk all over both his parents and extended family members by his mother)


----------



## noah's mom (Jan 3, 2006)

I was broadsided by the comment about "other ppl raising your kids"...my brother made a backhanded comment along those same lines once and it was extremely hurtful (I was telling him about how DH and I are working towards me being able to SAHM at some point, and he commented how good it would be that I'll be able to "raise my kids"...ironic coming from him for various reasons related to the behavior of his kids vs. my DS which I won't get into here). My personal opinion is that one can WOH and be very connected to their kids, or one can SAH and be completely disconnected - it can go either way in either case and is entirely situational.

That said, I lived in NY for 12 years (Westchester County for 5, and NYC for 7) and can relate to some of the "snobbiness" you see "back east". I worked as a nanny for 2 years in Westchester (which is a very wealthy county) and I heard some pretty amazing stories through the nanny network - for example, one nanny I knew worked for a family that had a f/t day nanny and a f/t night nanny - and the mom stayed home, basically never spent time w/the kids. Talk about having kids as a status symbol! So these types of situations definitely exist, although I don't agree with making blanket statements about anyone. FTR, the family I worked with was terrific - the parents were very connected to their kids, hired me not as a luxury but as a necessity (it was certainly not to maintain an extravagant standard of living - and if you've ever lived in that part of the country, you know how expensive it is to just keep up with the "basics").

As far as the wedding invites go, I'm of the opinion that it's better to make expectations clear from the start and not assume anything (precisely b/c of the cultural/perception differences that pp's have mentioned). When DH and I got married, we specified "Adult Only Reception" on the invites and told ppl personally that we would provide babysitters at our (mine, at the time) apartment (which was not far from the reception site) for any kids who needed it. And we didn't do it with the intent of excluding anyone, we really were trying to focus on giving the parents a breather and some time to enjoy themselves w/o having to worry about the kids (although, having read through this thread I am now hoping that no-one took it the other way!)

There were a couple of folks who asked us to make exceptions and we happily obliged.


----------



## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FarmerCathy* 
Yes, but the difference here is if you could stay home you would.

Who is the "You" that you are referring to in this statement?


----------



## FarmerCathy (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *noah's mom* 
I was broadsided by the comment about "other ppl raising your kids"...my brother made a backhanded comment along those same lines once and it was extremely hurtful (I was telling him about how DH and I are working towards me being able to SAHM at some point, and he commented how good it would be that I'll be able to "raise my kids"...ironic coming from him for various reasons related to the behavior of his kids vs. my DS which I won't get into here). My personal opinion is that one can WOH and be very connected to their kids, or one can SAH and be completely disconnected - it can go either way in either case and is entirely situational.

That said, I lived in NY for 12 years (Westchester County for 5, and NYC for 7) and can relate to some of the "snobbiness" you see "back east". I worked as a nanny for 2 years in Westchester (which is a very wealthy county) and I heard some pretty amazing stories through the nanny network - for example, one nanny I knew worked for a family that had a f/t day nanny and a f/t night nanny - and the mom stayed home, basically never spent time w/the kids. Talk about having kids as a status symbol! So these types of situations definitely exist, although I don't agree with making blanket statements about anyone. FTR, the family I worked with was terrific - the parents were very connected to their kids, hired me not as a luxury but as a necessity (it was certainly not to maintain an extravagant standard of living - and if you've ever lived in that part of the country, you know how expensive it is to just keep up with the "basics").

As far as the wedding invites go, I'm of the opinion that it's better to make expectations clear from the start and not assume anything (precisely b/c of the cultural/perception differences that pp's have mentioned). When DH and I got married, we specified "Adult Only Reception" on the invites and told ppl personally that we would provide babysitters at our (mine, at the time) apartment (which was not far from the reception site) for any kids who needed it. And we didn't do it with the intent of excluding anyone, we really were trying to focus on giving the parents a breather and some time to enjoy themselves w/o having to worry about the kids (although, having read through this thread I am now hoping that no-one took it the other way!)

There were a couple of folks who asked us to make exceptions and we happily obliged.

My ignorance towards different attachment parenting styles is obvious. I'm talking about people who have kids that are obviously having them for status only reasons. These people are so non-loving towards thier kids. I feel sorry for them. This is all I meant. People who have kids that don't even know thier own kids. It is very sad. They have people taking care of them 24/7 because they don't want to have to.

Anyway, that is what I meant, didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings. Now I know. So, I'm planning on telling my Uncle that we aren't going to the wedding and ask him if it's ok if they pick us up to go to the reception since they are in different places and not too far away from the hotel. Otherwise we can take a cab and meet everyone at the reception. I just talked to my aunt (mother of the groom's sister) and she is also implying that he shouldn't be there. Like saying if he is anamored by the whole thing then it will be fine, but if not that it won't be appropriate. Oh my, the drama unfolds. I feel like I'm caught in a soap opera. I'm just thinking how much I do not want to go, but my niece really wants to go to Chicago if nothing else. I think it will be a nice vacation minus the family yuck.


----------



## angelcat (Feb 23, 2006)

:


----------



## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FarmerCathy* 
My ignorance towards different attachment parenting styles is obvious. I'm talking about people who have kids that are obviously having them for status only reasons. These people are so non-loving towards thier kids. I feel sorry for them. This is all I meant. People who have kids that don't even know thier own kids. It is very sad. They have people taking care of them 24/7 because they don't want to have to.

If that's what you meant fine. But it is not what you said, what you said was *Yes, but the difference here is if you could stay home you would.*


----------



## intorainbowz (Aug 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FarmerCathy* 
Yada, yada, yada. Didn't realize how snooty he has become. Hopefully he will realize how silly he is being when he has kids of his own. I just hope his new wife stays home with thier kids instead of someone else taking care of them like his 3 older brothers do. *Why have kids if your going to have someone else take care of them?*

I really think this sentance should be banned. FOREVER. It is incredibly insulting to WOHM's who love and raise their children.

FTR, DH and I raise DD. Our wonderful DCP assists us, however WE RAISE HER.

I've seen plenty of SAHM's who don't really raise their children, PBS and Nick do.

I work because I have to, but it is highly likely that I would work even if I did not.

I hate the Mommy wars. Why must one group insult the other?


----------



## FarmerCathy (Jun 28, 2005)

I did not know thier were so many different styles of attachment parenting. I suggest next time someone says something like that to let them know and tell them about that and nicely explain instead of stoning them instantly. They might just not know like me. It's helpful to explain. I did not mean to offend or hurt anyone on this group that was not my intention. We're here to learn and support each other.


----------



## FarmerCathy (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *intorainbowz* 
I really think this sentance should be banned. FOREVER. It is incredibly insulting to WOHM's who love and raise their children.

FTR, DH and I raise DD. Our wonderful DCP assists us, however WE RAISE HER.

I've seen plenty of SAHM's who don't really raise their children, PBS and Nick do.

I work because I have to, but it is highly likely that I would work even if I did not.

I hate the Mommy wars. Why must one group insult the other?

This is not a war against anyone. I totally agree that a lot of stay at home moms have the tv raise thier children. I just didn't know any better and please next time talk to us and not get so upset because we all don't do everything the same way and don't understand that AP is many ways not just one way.


----------



## intorainbowz (Aug 16, 2006)

FarmerCathy, you have been a member here since June 2005. You have 722 posts. I don't think you are a newbie here. I'd also like to point out there is a working and student mama forum here as well.

Why would there be one style of AP that works for everyone? I bet if we polled, we all scramble eggs slightly different. If we all do that differently, why would we not all parent differently?

I'm not stoning you. I'm letting everyone that reads my post know that I think the "Don't have children if you can't raise them by SAH because WOH parents don't actually raise their children" statement should be banned because of how insulting it is. That statement makes me want to uke and then ask if they would rather I have an abortion, because it was either me be a working mama or have one.


----------



## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FarmerCathy* 
If my cousin confronts me then I will ask if he had the perfect ceremony and if he says yes, then I will say, "I thought that's what you wanted" or something that sounds really sweet...

Gee, it's a good thing you didn't inherit any of those snotty genes!









Your cousin *is* going out of his way to make an exception for your DS -- I'm sure other parents who made arrangements for their kids will be irked when they see your DS there. As for the family picture, it sounds like they're just trying not to exclude James from everything, as in, "Hmm, we'd really prefer that the ceremony be kid-free, but you're welcome to bring him with you to the family picture and the reception."

FWIW, I would never ever consider getting married without all my kid/toddler/baby family members present, but I don't see why people get so worked up when other people decide to do so. If you don't like it, just don't go! I've had to make that decision when circumstances didn't work out, and it was just matter-of-fact -- no trashing of the bride/groom was necessary.


----------



## artemis80 (Sep 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FarmerCathy* 
I just didn't know any better and please next time talk to us and not get so upset because we all don't do everything the same way and don't understand that AP is many ways not just one way.

I don't understand what you didn't understand? Did you think that AP = SAHM? I'm confused. But since ds came home from DAYCARE







smelling like the spaghetti he had for lunch, I am now craving spaghetti and am going to go make some.


----------



## Redifer (Nov 25, 2006)

OK. To address everything in this thread:

1. Anywhere my child isn't welcome, I'm not welcome. That's my personal feelings on it. If someone is going to pick and choose which members of my family they deem worthy enough to attend an event, none of us attend. Period. I don't care who you are and how close we are; if my kiddo's aren't allowed, I will not be going.

2. One week's notice is not sufficient.

3. Mommy wars need to quit. In the past 4 years, I have been a WOHM (2 days after birth, mind you, on a farm), WAHM, SAHM, and every other kind of conceivable lifestyle you could come up with. I have always raised my child, never someone else. That's an insensitive comment.

4. Why must we meet snobbery with snobbery? Why can't it just be let go? If you make your feelings known about being uncomfortable not having your child in attendance with you, stand by that conviction. But certainly, it isn't neccessary to engage in the same type of snobbery you accuse others of in order to 'one up' your family. This is immature. Sorry if that comes off as blunt, but it does.

5. If you really dislike these people so much, why do you even bother associating with them?

And in that, I close.


----------



## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

If the church has glass doors or a window to the narthex why not stand outside the church and watch if you really want to see the wedding. It doesn't seem as if they are saying that he will not be included in the wedding as a whole, just the ceremony in the church. I wouldn't be offended because I was at a recent wedding where a baby screamed through the vows, mom never left the church, and the wedding video had the sound of the screaming child drowning out the vows as well. I can understand wanting to hear your vows without interruption (not saying that your child would scream but that it is always a possibility)


----------



## artemis80 (Sep 8, 2006)

Since I can't keep out of this thread (and now have spaghetti in hand), here are my thoughts on its actual topic: If I got an invitation addressed to me and DH, I wouldn't assume either way about DS. I would have to call and ask. Now, I would never host an event at which kids weren't welcome, but I know some do, and I suppose that's their right. FWIW, we have been invited to six weddings since DS was born, and his name was on every. single. invitation.

My guess is that the harried bride and groom heard through the grapevine that the OP was planning to bring her toddler and delegated dealing with it to the aunt, who came up with a solution that was partially good (the nursery) and partially terrible (asking the niece to leave the wedding to babysit).

Most ceremonies are only 15-20 minutes long, and it sounds like the baby is invited to the rest of the festivities, so I would go. But (to defend the OP on this point) I would be miffed that they were so concerned about my misunderstanding that they felt the need to talk about it and come up with a "plan" for us.


----------



## LolaK (Jan 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ST* 
usually child free weddings are indicated as such on the invitation. weird all around!


I don't think this is accurate, unless the wedding invitation is addressed to "the Adams _Family_" or actually includes your child's name you should assume that your child is NOT invited.

So unless the OP's child was mentioned on the invite or her whole family was invited they didn't inform you a week before hand, they informed you when you got the invite.

If you as a guest are in doubt when you get the invite you should take it upon yourself to ask before you make plans.

I know it seems strange to many of us because we take our kids with us "everywhere" but most people don't want toddlers or kids at their weddings.


----------



## ShaggyDaddy (Jul 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LolaK* 
I know it seems strange to many of us because we take our kids with us "everywhere" but most people don't want toddlers or kids at their weddings.

People in our families, and most of the friends that we keep would be devastated if there were no kids IN their wedding, forget just having them attend that is a given. I do not know anyone personally who would exclude children from wedding festivities.

I guess we all see weddings as the launch of a new family and not the stuffy party you have to merge two fortunes or whatever the hell "fancy" people do at "adults only" weddings.


----------



## FarmerCathy (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *intorainbowz* 
FarmerCathy, you have been a member here since June 2005. You have 722 posts. I don't think you are a newbie here. I'd also like to point out there is a working and student mama forum here as well.

Why would there be one style of AP that works for everyone? I bet if we polled, we all scramble eggs slightly different. If we all do that differently, why would we not all parent differently?

I'm not stoning you. I'm letting everyone that reads my post that I think the "Don't have children if you can't raise them by SAH because WOH parents don't actually raise their children" statement should be banned because of how insulting it is. That statement makes me want to uke and then ask if they would rather I have an abortion, because it was either me be a working mama or have one.

I did not mean to insult anyone. We don't need to make it more than it is. Ignorance and nothing else than innocent ignorance. Yes, you can post on here a whole lot and not even go to many parts of the board. I've only been on a few. If it doesn't pertain to what I'm doing at the time I don't usually check that part of the board out. I'd be on here for hours if I were to try to read everything on these forums. If you look at where I post its mainly in one place. When I think about AP I think of mom's trying to stay home with thier kids and breastfeed thier babes (I know not everyone can successfully breastfeed either). *Now* I know this is the wrong way to think, forgive me. I don't want to step on anymore toes.


----------



## FarmerCathy (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Redifer* 
OK. To address everything in this thread:

1. Anywhere my child isn't welcome, I'm not welcome. That's my personal feelings on it. If someone is going to pick and choose which members of my family they deem worthy enough to attend an event, none of us attend. Period. I don't care who you are and how close we are; if my kiddo's aren't allowed, I will not be going.

2. One week's notice is not sufficient.

3. Mommy wars need to quit. In the past 4 years, I have been a WOHM (2 days after birth, mind you, on a farm), WAHM, SAHM, and every other kind of conceivable lifestyle you could come up with. I have always raised my child, never someone else. That's an insensitive comment.

4. Why must we meet snobbery with snobbery? Why can't it just be let go? If you make your feelings known about being uncomfortable not having your child in attendance with you, stand by that conviction. But certainly, it isn't neccessary to engage in the same type of snobbery you accuse others of in order to 'one up' your family. This is immature. Sorry if that comes off as blunt, but it does.

5. If you really dislike these people so much, why do you even bother associating with them?

And in that, I close.

Yes, you are right with the snobbery with snobbery. That is just the way I felt at the time and couldn't think of anything else at the moment. I'm just going to say "I didn't feel comfortable bringing my ds and knew he might react to me feeling this way, but I know you probably had a beautiful ceremony. And Congratulations and all that lovely stuff." Something like that I think.

I guess we associate with this part of the family, because we think thier going to change magically and become nicer? I don't know, it's beyond me. I just thought my Aunt's kids wouldn't be so much like her, but guess what they maybe worse.


----------



## Redifer (Nov 25, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FarmerCathy* 
Yes, you are right with the snobbery with snobbery. That is just the way I felt at the time and couldn't think of anything else at the moment. I'm just going to say "I didn't feel comfortable bringing my ds and knew he might react to me feeling this way, but I know you probably had a beautiful ceremony. And Congratulations and all that lovely stuff." Something like that I think.

I guess we associate with this part of the family, *because we think thier going to change magically and become nicer?* I don't know, it's beyond me. I just thought my Aunt's kids wouldn't be so much like her, but guess what they maybe worse.

No, I hear ya on this. Wishful thinking. I've done it quite a few times, which is why I'm now big on just cutting people off who irritate you to the point of losing your cool.

In the warm, open, accepting nature that is MDC, I suggest everyone make a reminder that this is a human being, one who is capable of putting her foot in her mouth, as we all do occasionally. I don't for a second believe you think SAHM's are better than WOHM's, and all that. I'm sure you're just already stressed and upset about your situation, which led to saying some things that weren't taken quite well, and maybe weren't phrased correctly. I've done it quite a few times, as I'm sure we all have.


----------



## bellymama (Apr 15, 2007)

i wouldn't go...its just a personal thing. some people are okay with that, and that is fine. but i am not. that wedding sounds like it's going to suck anyway..."dignified" sucks IMHO







...wouldn't be a wedding to me without an outburst or two.


----------



## bellymama (Apr 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GalateaDunkel* 
The whole 'children are automatically excluded unless stated otherwise' only applies to WASP culture. Which is what I hate about the whole idea of a 'standard' etiquette. In my culture if I showed up to a wedding without my kid everyone would be like 'where is she???!!!' and if I said 'oh but you didn't mention her by name' they would send me to have my head checked. I know of several other cultures where this would also hold.

I can't conceive expecting a mother to go out of town without her child.

this is the truest thing i have ever heard. i HATE when people ramble on about the etiquette this and that...it is TOTALLY a WASP thing...
in my family's it would be the same, if i showed up without ds i would be sent back to get him







...its a family affair.
but in general, i think it is the bride and grooms right to have that kinda wedding...i just won't be there,yk? and thats okay, i wouldn't be mad at them, so i hope they wouldn't be mad at me. it takes all kinds.


----------



## bellymama (Apr 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FarmerCathy* 
I did not mean to insult anyone. We don't need to make it more than it is. Ignorance and nothing else than innocent ignorance. Yes, you can post on here a whole lot and not even go to many parts of the board. I've only been on a few. If it doesn't pertain to what I'm doing at the time I don't usually check that part of the board out. I'd be on here for hours if I were to try to read everything on these forums. If you look at where I post its mainly in one place. When I think about AP I think of mom's trying to stay home with thier kids and breastfeed thier babes (I know not everyone can successfully breastfeed either). *Now* I know this is the wrong way to think, forgive me. I don't want to step on anymore toes.

you made a comment...thats all. its not that huge of a deal...just so you know, i disagree with the comment but i am not going to act like you just shot my dog...







. you apologized, explained your ignorance on t he subject. lets move on.


----------



## Equuskia (Dec 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellymama* 
i wouldn't go...its just a personal thing. some people are okay with that, and that is fine. but i am not. that wedding sounds like it's going to suck anyway..."dignified" sucks IMHO







...wouldn't be a wedding to me without an outburst or two.

No doubt! What good stories are they gonna tell their friends and grandkids if nothing happened at the wedding? "It was a lovely and quiet wedding, totally dignified!" Well...how boring!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellymama* 
this is the truest thing i have ever heard. i HATE when people ramble on about the etiquette this and that...it is TOTALLY a WASP thing...
in my family's it would be the same, if i showed up without ds i would be sent back to get him







...its a family affair.
but in general, i think it is the bride and grooms right to have that kinda wedding...i just won't be there,yk? and thats okay, i wouldn't be mad at them, so i hope they wouldn't be mad at me. it takes all kinds.

I went to a wedding that my mother invited me to that she was invited to. I never received an invitation, but I was well received, and everyone thought my dd was cute dancing to reggaeton.







:


----------



## veggiemomma (Oct 21, 2004)

Well, I must say that everyone who knows me well enough to invite me to their wedding knows that I don't go anywhere without my dk's (not even to the bathroom!







) and that I would not go if my kids were not invited, too.

Probably your family knows that about you, too, which is why they are slipping this in last minute hoping that you have already made travel plans that you won't cancel this late in the game so that you will still come, only without DearToddler in tow.

I am confused about what makes people think a church is no place for a child.







:


----------



## OGirlieMama (Aug 6, 2006)

Each successive reply makes me think the OP is more interested in revving up the family drama at this point than in actually finding a way to attend and enjoy the wedding.







:

And the "no kid names on the invite = no kids invited" is not only a WASP thing. I'm Jewish and I have always understood that to be the case.


----------



## 77589 (Mar 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Redifer* 

OK. To address everything in this thread:
1. Anywhere my child isn't welcome, I'm not welcome. That's my personal feelings on it. If someone is going to pick and choose which members of my family they deem worthy enough to attend an event, none of us attend. Period. I don't care who you are and how close we are; if my kiddo's aren't allowed, I will not be going.










:


----------



## FarmerCathy (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellymama* 
i wouldn't go...its just a personal thing. some people are okay with that, and that is fine. but i am not. that wedding sounds like it's going to suck anyway..."dignified" sucks IMHO







...wouldn't be a wedding to me without an outburst or two.

I told them I wouldn't go and then my aunt said he would be fine and I decided I would go again and now I'm hearing from relatives that have talked and have called and hinted to me that as long as he's quiet that he's fine. I'm feeling pressure now. I don't think I can try to cancel twice, even so if I went through with it the first time I think it would be worse. I'm trying to not make it this big drama issue. I want to skip the ceremony, but don't know if I can without making it an issue, but at the same time if I sit in the church I will be so worried about every sound he makes.







:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Equuskia* 
No doubt! What good stories are they gonna tell their friends and grandkids if nothing happened at the wedding? "It was a lovely and quiet wedding, totally dignified!" Well...how boring!









Haha! Funny! My wedding was so memorable with my dh pulling a pair of panties out from under my dress when he was supposed to be getting my garter. That was hilarious and then his best friend (he had been drinking) started doing the hokey pokey and had everyone of the guests dancing the hokey pokey. My family (excluding the ones I'm going to the wedding for, mind you they didn't even come) thought it was great! They were all sober and my dh's friends were all drunk.







My mom loved it the most I think.







Sigh... The memories....


----------



## Fiestabeth (Aug 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kavita* 
If children are invited, generally they are included on the invitation. Such as, the envelope will be addressed to Mr. and Mrs. Joe Smith, and James Smith. The exclusion of a kid's name on an envelope is generally meant to denote that they are not invited. So if the invitation is not addressed specifically that way, or to "The Smith Family" I would never have assumed my kid was invited in the first place. It is not required, nor is it technically proper, to write "child free wedding" or "no children" because it's assumed that guests will understand that only the people listed on the invitation are actually invited. Now I have heard some people say that nursing babes in arms are automatically invited anywhere that mothers are in term of the rules of etiquette, but I'm not sure that most people are even aware of that when doing their wedding inviting, and I am also not sure that it does or should apply to a toddler who is capable of running around under their own steam and can generally go without nursing for a few hours while their mothers are gone.

I know this, but I have come to realize that not a lot of people are aware of proper etiquette in this regard. I have been to a ton of weddings - at least 30 in the past 10 years, and I can think of at least 3 where dh and I did not bring the kid(s) because their name(s) or "and family" was not on the invite. We were then accosted by the bride, groom, and other guests: "Where's the kid(s)? We were so looking forward to seeing them!"







: I never have had the heart to say, "You didn't invite them!"

In some cases we prefer not to bring the kids even if they are invited. Dd1 has severe food allergies and dd2 is nuts!









In the OP's situation, I would do as she has decided; skip the ceremony and go to the reception.


----------



## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

OP, I'd pick up the phone and call your cousin. I'd tell her (him?) straight that you hadn't realised that you were expected to make other arrangements during the service and that at this short notice, you just can't do it. Donna (your niece) is a daughter of another cousin, right? She's family too.
I'd probably be inclined to cancel and invite the newly weds to come and visit you, but that's just me.


----------



## FarmerCathy (Jun 28, 2005)

I'm going to go, try to make the best of it and enjoy a vacation swimming in the hotel pool with my ds and niece. We're also going to the aquarium with my other Aunt and Uncle so that should be good. Less drama thier right now atleast.

Oh, you know the best part of this is my niece (14) recently got 3 new piercings. Brow, nose and lip. They are going to love us. A mama breastfeeding a toddler in public and a pierced cousin. I think we threw etiquette out the window.


----------



## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FarmerCathy* 
Oh, you know the best part of this is my niece (14) recently got 3 new piercings.

Is it possible they found out about this last week and that's why they wanted niece to watch James in the playpoom instead of just saying you could take James to the playroom if needed?


----------



## Romana (Mar 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Fiestabeth* 
I know this, but I have come to realize that not a lot of people are aware of proper etiquette in this regard. I have been to a ton of weddings - at least 30 in the past 10 years, and I can think of at least 3 where dh and I did not bring the kid(s) because their name(s) or "and family" was not on the invite. We were then accosted by the bride, groom, and other guests: "Where's the kid(s)? We were so looking forward to seeing them!"







: I never have had the heart to say, "You didn't invite them!"

I had a situation like this recently where I felt it was unclear (just dh & I invited, but only I was invited to the shower and the bride asked if I was bringing dd and said she'd like her to be there). I just asked the bride if dd was invited, and she said no, unfortunately, because it would be too expensive and too crazy with so many kids for the kind of reception she's planning. I was fine with that, and glad I clarified it so I knew for sure.


----------



## 77589 (Mar 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eepster* 
Is it possible they found out about this last week and that's why they wanted niece to watch James in the playpoom instead of just saying you could take James to the playroom if needed?

That is EXACTLY what my first thought was, OP may not be the target of ridicule in this situation it may be that they don't want the niece in the background of the ceremony pics, so this makes a good excuse, why else would they volunteer her services as a baby sitter?


----------



## FarmerCathy (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eepster* 
Is it possible they found out about this last week and that's why they wanted niece to watch James in the playpoom instead of just saying you could take James to the playroom if needed?

Nope, no one knows. They suggested her to watch James so they could have a true kid free wedding.


----------



## madskye (Feb 20, 2006)

Well, now I think I would just not go. You can put the plane fare towards another trip at a later date somewhere more enjoyable.


----------



## GracesMama (Oct 24, 2006)

I have a question...was your child's name on the wedding invitation? If not, that should have been a clue that he wasn't invited. That's just proper wedding etiquette. However, if it was, and they just changed their minds, I'd be a bit peeved too.

If I were you, I'd still go. I'd either leave my child in the nursery with the niece just for the ceremony, or if I wasn't comfortable with that, I'd skip the ceremony and just go to the reception. They'll just have to understand that you're not ready to leave your baby yet.


----------



## FarmerCathy (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GracesMama* 
I have a question...was your child's name on the wedding invitation? If not, that should have been a clue that he wasn't invited. That's just proper wedding etiquette. However, if it was, and they just changed their minds, I'd be a bit peeved too.

If I were you, I'd still go. I'd either leave my child in the nursery with the niece just for the ceremony, or if I wasn't comfortable with that, I'd skip the ceremony and just go to the reception. They'll just have to understand that you're not ready to leave your baby yet.

Like I posted before I e-mailed them after I sent our reply who was coming (almost 2 months prior). They never said a word and were excited we were bringing the little one. I guess maybe they just overlooked it?


----------



## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ShaggyDaddy* 
People in our families, and most of the friends that we keep would be devastated if there were no kids IN their wedding, forget just having them attend that is a given. I do not know anyone personally who would exclude children from wedding festivities.

I guess we all see weddings as the launch of a new family and not the stuffy party you have to merge two fortunes or whatever the hell "fancy" people do at "adults only" weddings.

Okay, that's just totally insulting to anyone who wants an adult wedding for whatever reason. It doesn't make you a "fancy person" or stuff or have anything to do with "merging two fortunes." A marriage is essentially an adult relationship and some people want the flavor of the ceremony and later celebration to reflect that. Children can be a later addition and certainly many but not all couples desire and intend to have children when they marry, but at its essence marriage celebrates the love and commitment between two people--two people who may or may not ever end up having their own children either by choice or by default. Some people don't see their marriage as the start of a family, but as the solemnization of their romantic union. If a person wants the occasion to be formal and elegant, that's their business! and if a person can't afford to have twice the wedding guests because everyone is bringing their two kids, or doesn't want distant cousin suzie's poorly parented out of control brats knocking over the wedding cake or screaming through the ceremony, that's their business too!

Some places just aren't really super compatible with the normal behavior of young children--I don't take my almost 2 year old to really nice expensive restaurants, or to the opera, on romantic dates with my husband, or to other such events. It's not fair to her to expect adult standards of behavior in a formal situation, and her normal child behavior (being loud, making a mess, eating crayons, wanting to run around) is inappropriate in that setting, would ruin the experience for me and DH, and would be horribly and probably everyone else there, and it would also be boring and unpleasant for her too. Now, she is a delightful child and I love her company, but once in a while I'd like to do something sophisticated and romantic and adult that is better done without her. Some people want their wedding to be more like an evening at a dimly lit romantic pricey restaurant than like the Playland at McDonalds!!


----------



## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OGirlieMama* 
Each successive reply makes me think the OP is more interested in revving up the family drama at this point than in actually finding a way to attend and enjoy the wedding.







:

And the "no kid names on the invite = no kids invited" is not only a WASP thing. I'm Jewish and I have always understood that to be the case.

Thank you!!!

I am Jewish too, FWIW. This is not a religious custom, however. This is basically just the mainstream American etiquette surrounding how to address invitations. It may not apply in other cultures or in other American subcultures, but if you are wondering how to address your wedding invitations and you go to any wedding planning site (the knot.com is an example) this is what you will find is the basic practice. Whether or not everybody follows it or understands this point of etiquette is a different matter or whether you don't like the basic concept of the existence of rules of etiquette is immaterial--not everybody knows all the traffic laws and even some of those who understand them won't follow them and some people don't believe that there should be laws governing how you should drive, but that doesn't change the fact that there is a speed limit! And the fact that somebody else might not know all the rules doesn't exempt me from trying to behave appropriately.


----------



## ramama (Apr 13, 2007)

I'm just now reading this thread, and have just perused the previous posts, so please forgive me if I repeat someone else's thoughts!

The bride and groom have the "right" to have a child-free ceremony (although I personally find it ridiculous). Even given proper notice I would NEVER go ANYWHERE where my children are not welcome. Weddings, receptions, whatever. Just as I would never go anywhere where my husband or mother or grandmother weren't welcome. Children are people too, and part of a family. Those who are sacrificing family cohesiveness for a "dignified" wedding are in for a rude awakening when they find that life is not "perfect". If my children aren't welcome, then by extension, I am not welcome. I refuse to let my children become accustomed to discrimination.

Sorry if I'm coming off rude, but I get really offended by stuff like this.


----------



## FarmerCathy (Jun 28, 2005)

Totally agree! I just wish they would have told me two months ago when it wouldn't have been a problem to back out before I accepted the invitation.


----------



## FarmerCathy (Jun 28, 2005)

You know the kicker of this is that it is a dry (groom and bride are Christian Scientists) adult wedding. How boring! I'm sure though some of the guests that are friends of bride and groom will find a bar somewhere, it is at a Country Club ya know. Too bad I'm breastfeeding and babe in tow, I would've drank my worries away like the last horrible wedding I went to. It got worse and worse, if I wasn't good friends with the bride (atleast I thought I was) and in the wedding I probably would have left right after the ceremony. I'm having flashbacks. Atleast we had some fun at thier expense and had fun taking those disposable cameras they put on the table and took pictures of peoples boobs with them. Knowingly of course, and we were lovingly drunk at the time.


----------



## JustJamie (Apr 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FarmerCathy* 
You know the kicker of this is that it is a dry (groom and bride are Christian Scientists) adult wedding. How boring! I'm sure though some of the guests that are friends of bride and groom will find a bar somewhere, it is at a Country Club ya know. Too bad I'm breastfeeding and babe in tow, I would've drank my worries away like the last horrible wedding I went to. It got worse and worse, if I wasn't good friends with the bride (atleast I thought I was) and in the wedding I probably would have left right after the ceremony. I'm having flashbacks. Atleast we had some fun at thier expense and had fun taking those disposable cameras they put on the table and took pictures of peoples boobs with them. Knowingly of course, and we were lovingly drunk at the time.

















:

People who have to drink alcohol to have fun at a party have a problem.


----------



## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FarmerCathy* 
Totally agree! I just wish they would have told me two months ago when it wouldn't have been a problem to back out before I accepted the invitation.

You still have not clearly answered the question. Did the couple specifically write your sons name on the invitation? If not then they did essentially "tell you" he was not invited.

Whether or not you or some other posters here at MDC understand that is how invitations are addressed, see Kavita's post, does not change the fact that the bride and groom most likely believed you would understand this.


----------



## Pepperminx (Jan 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JustJamie* 







:

People who have to drink alcohol to have fun at a party have a problem.

Or maybe it's just a really boring party?









Anyway, in regards to "proper" etiquette - well, there were many things that used to be proper etiquette, and which aren't anymore. Instead of "proper" invites why not start stating specifically whether or not children are permitted? Make it the NEW proper and avoid confusion!







:

That being said, I'd have a hard time going somewhere my DC wasn't invited if it was a family thing. No hard feelings if that's the wishes of whomever/whatever is celebrated! I just hope they won't be offended, either.


----------



## JustJamie (Apr 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pepperminx* 
Or maybe it's just a really boring party?









I suppose it's possible; however the post specifically states that the party WILL be boring BECAUSE there is no bar. That, IMO, is indicative of other issues.


----------



## Decca (Mar 14, 2006)

Quote:

Whether or not everybody follows it or understands this point of etiquette is a different matter or whether you don't like the basic concept of the existence of rules of etiquette is immaterial--not everybody knows all the traffic laws and even some of those who understand them won't follow them and some people don't believe that there should be laws governing how you should drive, but that doesn't change the fact that there is a speed limit! And the fact that somebody else might not know all the rules doesn't exempt me from trying to behave appropriately.
I think this is so well said! I spent a lot of time on wedding boards when I was planning my wedding, and the whole "well, everyone around me is rude, so I have to be too" line of thinking got so tiresome.

Quote:

You know the kicker of this is that it is a dry (groom and bride are Christian Scientists) adult wedding. How boring! I'm sure though some of the guests that are friends of bride and groom will find a bar somewhere, it is at a Country Club ya know. Too bad I'm breastfeeding and babe in tow, I would've drank my worries away like the last horrible wedding I went to
The party who is getting ruder and ruder in this situation is you, not the bride and groom. Even assuming your child had been invited (which I'm now guessing he wasn't) and the couple rescinded his invitation, you are revealing more and more hostile and resentful feelings toward them that I doubt have nothing to do with your child. If this is truly how you think of the couple and their religious beliefs and the choices they have made in their wedding planning, then you need to STAY HOME because you cannot manage to be a gracious guest who is truly there to support and celebrate the marriage.

I see a lot of talk on this board about how society needs to be more accomodating of children and to be more inclusive. I agree with that. But I also think that there needs to be a lot more respect for the choices other people make about how they conduct their lives, and frankly, the judgment the OP has made about this couple just digs her into a deeper and deeper hole.


----------



## coobabysmom (Nov 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Decca* 
The party who is getting ruder and ruder in this situation is you, not the bride and groom. Even assuming your child had been invited (which I'm now guessing he wasn't) and the couple rescinded his invitation, you are revealing more and more hostile and resentful feelings toward them that I doubt have nothing to do with your child. If this is truly how you think of the couple and their religious beliefs and the choices they have made in their wedding planning, then you need to STAY HOME because you cannot manage to be a gracious guest who is truly there to support and celebrate the marriage.

I see a lot of talk on this board about how society needs to be more accomodating of children and to be more inclusive. I agree with that. But I also think that there needs to be a lot more respect for the choices other people make about how they conduct their lives, and frankly, the judgment the OP has made about this couple just digs her into a deeper and deeper hole.

ITA with Decca...

FarmerCathy,you may be trying to be funny or make light of the situation, but you are coming across as intolerant and judgemental as you have tried to paint your Chicago family out to be..


----------



## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pepperminx* 
Anyway, in regards to "proper" etiquette - well, there were many things that used to be proper etiquette, and which aren't anymore. Instead of "proper" invites why not start stating specifically whether or not children are permitted? Make it the NEW proper and avoid confusion!







:

Invites do say whether the children are permitted. They are addressed to the child by name or to the parents "and family" if children are permitted. If the child is not invited you do not invite the child on the hosts' behalf.

The response if you can't come without your children would be,

I would love to attend, but am unable to leave my son at home. Best wishes, XX.

At that point, you may receive the response of, "Oh we do want you to come, please bring your son!"

Or not.

The PP, while not completely following her part of the script, did give plenty of notice that she was bringing her son and this should have been discussed way ahead of time. This is close family after all. I'm sure the hosts would not have appreciated it if the father's boss had announced he was bringing his flock of 7 children uninvited, but close family is a little different. Such a response should have been greeted with appropriate discussion then.

But, the PP should deal with the changed circumstances. If she wants to talk to the bride directly, that's fine, but she better do it quickly before the bride gets any more swamped. Best to just sit out the ceremony and come to the reception, perhaps.

My kids were invited to a family wedding last week, but after the first 5 minutes we had to excuse ourselves to the rear rooms of the church to pass the time until the ceremony was over.


----------



## intorainbowz (Aug 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JustJamie* 







:

People who have to drink alcohol to have fun at a party have a problem.









:

Most weddings I've been to have been alcohol free. One spectacular one was also child free.

My wedding was booze free, although children were more than welcome. I think everyone had a wonderful time.

Because of where it was held, my wedding ceremony was child free, and everyone who was invited to my ceremony knew that and had no problems with that. Children were more than welcome at my reception.

ETA: I thought weddings were celebrations of committments, not for the free booze. I think that teaching our children to respect the beliefs of others is a very important thing, even if those values are different than our own.


----------



## Romana (Mar 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ramama* 
I'm just now reading this thread, and have just perused the previous posts, so please forgive me if I repeat someone else's thoughts!

The bride and groom have the "right" to have a child-free ceremony (although I personally find it ridiculous). Even given proper notice I would NEVER go ANYWHERE where my children are not welcome. Weddings, receptions, whatever. Just as I would never go anywhere where my husband or mother or grandmother weren't welcome. Children are people too, and part of a family. Those who are sacrificing family cohesiveness for a "dignified" wedding are in for a rude awakening when they find that life is not "perfect". If my children aren't welcome, then by extension, I am not welcome. I refuse to let my children become accustomed to discrimination.

Sorry if I'm coming off rude, but I get really offended by stuff like this.

I don't think you're being rude, but I do find this attitude weird. It's not like someone said, "You're invited to our wedding (see invite) but your Spanish grandmother isn't because we dislike Spanish people." I mean, if you were invited to a wedding by a friend, would you expect to be able to bring along your grandmother? Or would you just realize that the invitation was for you and your spouse, and not your grandmother? That if the bride and groom had room to accommodate your entire extended family, maybe they would have, but why should they have to invite and feed everyone in your family for you to be willing to attend?

There are many events where my spouse and I may be invited, but my mother, grandmother, brother, sister-in-law, and children aren't invited. It's not that people are saying "Ewwww, your icky sister needs to stay away from here; she's not welcome." Instead, they've got a restricted number of invitations they can send/afford/desire for wedding/reception size and that's perfectly understandable and not an outright insult to members of your family who aren't invited. I really don't find it discriminatory at all. Plus I don't think it's fair to expect people to invite people to their wedding that they've never met. How would your grandmother join in celebrating their union when she's never met either of them, or only met them once at a party? As the host, I would be loathe to invite a lot of people to my wedding that didn't know me and would be upset if my invited guests brought along extended family members.

Also, let's face it, many parents are impolite with their children. Meaning that they don't "get it" that it's not cute when Little Abner runs up the wedding aisle and pulls on one of the bridesmaid's dresses or throws food at the reception. Unfortunately, Mommy thinks it's hilarious - one of those cute things toddlers do. Or parents who let their kids make lots of noise instead of leaving the ceremony and taking the kids to a place where they won't be a disruption. I think brides and grooms, among other people, are reasonable in having an adults-only affair if they have concerns about this kind of thing. And I agree that some to-be-married people are in for a bit of a surprise - but the fact is that most of them aren't parents yet, and may not even like children. I didn't like babies or children until I had my own. I didn't have a kid-free wedding, but I can really see how people without children wouldn't understand (a) how difficult it is to travel or go to an event without your children and (b) why anyone would be offended by an adults-only wedding.


----------



## Momtwice (Nov 21, 2001)

I'm left wondering where these weddings are where the children are not given any boundaries. Every child I've ever seen at a wedding has been either happy and polite, or their parents took them out of the church/hall/restaurant immediately. Odd.

I'm not saying I don't believe it happens. It is just the polar opposite of my experience of 40 plus years. I've seen weddings disrupted by drunk or ill adults, but the kids have never been a big deal because their parents made sure they weren't disruptive by responding promptly to any misbehavior.

Space, financial, personal preference, logistical barriers to inviting children are all understandable. But if the bride and groom assume that I am so rude I will let my children ruin their day, I find that insulting.


----------



## lovingmommyhood (Jul 28, 2006)

They want their wedding to be "dignified"? All I have to say is Puh-lease.


----------



## ramama (Apr 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Romana9+2* 
I don't think you're being rude, but I do find this attitude weird. It's not like someone said, "You're invited to our wedding (see invite) but your Spanish grandmother isn't because we dislike Spanish people." I mean, if you were invited to a wedding by a friend, would you expect to be able to bring along your grandmother? Or would you just realize that the invitation was for you and your spouse, and not your grandmother? That if the bride and groom had room to accommodate your entire extended family, maybe they would have, but why should they have to invite and feed everyone in your family for you to be willing to attend?

There are many events where my spouse and I may be invited, but my mother, grandmother, brother, sister-in-law, and children aren't invited. It's not that people are saying "Ewwww, your icky sister needs to stay away from here; she's not welcome." Instead, they've got a restricted number of invitations they can send/afford/desire for wedding/reception size and that's perfectly understandable and not an outright insult to members of your family who aren't invited. I really don't find it discriminatory at all. Plus I don't think it's fair to expect people to invite people to their wedding that they've never met. How would your grandmother join in celebrating their union when she's never met either of them, or only met them once at a party? As the host, I would be loathe to invite a lot of people to my wedding that didn't know me and would be upset if my invited guests brought along extended family members.

Also, let's face it, many parents are impolite with their children. Meaning that they don't "get it" that it's not cute when Little Abner runs up the wedding aisle and pulls on one of the bridesmaid's dresses or throws food at the reception. Unfortunately, Mommy thinks it's hilarious - one of those cute things toddlers do. Or parents who let their kids make lots of noise instead of leaving the ceremony and taking the kids to a place where they won't be a disruption. I think brides and grooms, among other people, are reasonable in having an adults-only affair if they have concerns about this kind of thing. And I agree that some to-be-married people are in for a bit of a surprise - but the fact is that most of them aren't parents yet, and may not even like children. I didn't like babies or children until I had my own. I didn't have a kid-free wedding, but I can really see how people without children wouldn't understand (a) how difficult it is to travel or go to an event without your children and (b) why anyone would be offended by an adults-only wedding.

Sorry to confuse, but I wasn't talking specifically about the wedding. I'm saying that I wouldn't go to a restaraunt that does not welcome children. If a family member didn't like my husband, I wouldn't go to dinner at their house and leave my husband at home. Just as I wouldn't go to a country club (well, I'd never go to a country club, period, but..) that didn't welcome all races as members. Children are not pets.

I think all this talk about wedding etiquette and invitations is rather high
-brow. Most people don't know about wedding etiquette, and many have not had a wedding themselves that even required invitations. To expect everyone who gets an invitation to run to the nearest bookstore, grab a book on wedding etiquette, and translate their invitation is rather snobbish. If the bride and groom insist on sending out vague invitations, they should have followed up with a letter/email/conversation that clarified that children are not welcome, and not a week before the wedding.


----------



## Decca (Mar 14, 2006)

Quote:

If the bride and groom insist on sending out vague invitations, they should have followed up with a letter/email/conversation that clarified that children are not welcome, and not a week before the wedding.
I am having a really, really hard time understanding how "the people listed on the invitation are the people invited" is vague or even some obscure rule.


----------



## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FarmerCathy* 
You know the kicker of this is that it is a dry (groom and bride are Christian Scientists) adult wedding. How boring! I'm sure though some of the guests that are friends of bride and groom will find a bar somewhere, it is at a Country Club ya know. Too bad I'm breastfeeding and babe in tow, I would've drank my worries away like the last horrible wedding I went to. It got worse and worse, if I wasn't good friends with the bride (atleast I thought I was) and in the wedding I probably would have left right after the ceremony. I'm having flashbacks. *At least we had some fun at thier expense* and had fun taking those disposable cameras they put on the table and took pictures of peoples boobs with them. Knowingly of course, and we were lovingly drunk at the time.









(Bolding mine.) Wow, what fun!







: Frankly, I'm beginning to think you should stay home from the wedding just so that the couple can have a nice day without worrying that you're in the corner making fun of them and taking notes on how "snotty" they're being.


----------



## ggs (Aug 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Decca* 
I am having a really, really hard time understanding how "the people listed on the invitation are the people invited" is vague or even some obscure rule.

Yeah that.

I'm also not getting how addressing the invitation to the people that are specifically invited is snobbish or highbrow. Seems to me that would be the most practical and logical way to go about it. How else would you address an invitation, other than to put the names of the people that are invited on it?









To those of you that object to addressing invitations this way, how do you address invitations?

FTR, I am not a WASP (not even close), and I was always taught to address invitations this way.


----------



## Romana (Mar 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Decca* 
I am having a really, really hard time understanding how "the people listed on the invitation are the people invited" is vague or even some obscure rule.









: I don't know everything about etiquette (for example, I thought it would be impolite/contrary to etiquette to not bring a wedding gift, but have recently learned otherwise), but if the invitation is unclear because it invites "Mr. and Mrs. John Doe" or "Mrs. Jane Doe and Partner," then I think it only makes sense to contact the bride or groom or person who sent the invitation (whomever you know best and makes most sense under the circumstances) and ask if your children are invited too. The reason I asked recently was because I knew the rule, but I thought the bride might not, and she verbally (but not on the invite) invited my dd to her shower.

I don't think not inviting children or extended family members to a wedding is anything like a country club that doesn't allow Catholics as members. I just don't see them being the same at all.







That being said, I would attend a professional event without my spouse (if other spouses were not invited) but would not attend a party or something similar if my spouse wasn't invited also. Children bring a whole different dynamic to an event. Personally, I prefer having children there, but I can still understand why some people, especially people without children, might prefer to have an event where children are not present.

And I love my dogs and used to think it was grossly unfair that I couldn't bring them into most stores, but people could bring their babies/children with them anywhere, even though my dog was quieter and better behaved than most babies/toddlers. I remember being so relieved when pregnant with my first, thinking about how finally I wouldn't have to leave my baby at home every time I wanted to go into a store.







If I had had a wedding, my dogs were going to be in it. My mother was horrified at the thought! Can't imagine why. He would've looked so cute in his tux and been a fantastic ring bearer.


----------



## liki (Jul 7, 2006)

I am sorry, put to me the OP is just being extremely rude herself. Saying that she will enjoy herself at their expense??? That it will not be any fun without alcohol???
A guest should be there to celebrate the joy of the wedding. Not to take notes on who was snobby. Not to take rude pictures to prove a point. Not to get drunk on somebody elses dime. If you cannot go for the right reason, then do not go for the wrong just to prove a point. I am sure that the bride and groom would rather your negative attitude stay at home. It sounds like the OP has a lot of issues that are coming to the surface, not just the fact that her son is not invited to the ceremony.


----------



## anarchamama (Mar 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kavita* 
Okay, that's just totally insulting to anyone who wants an adult wedding for whatever reason. It doesn't make you a "fancy person" or stuff or have anything to do with "merging two fortunes." A marriage is essentially an adult relationship and some people want the flavor of the ceremony and later celebration to reflect that. Children can be a later addition and certainly many but not all couples desire and intend to have children when they marry, but at its essence marriage celebrates the love and commitment between two people--two people who may or may not ever end up having their own children either by choice or by default. Some people don't see their marriage as the start of a family, but as the solemnization of their romantic union. If a person wants the occasion to be formal and elegant, that's their business! and if a person can't afford to have twice the wedding guests because everyone is bringing their two kids, or doesn't want distant cousin suzie's poorly parented out of control brats knocking over the wedding cake or screaming through the ceremony, that's their business too!

Some places just aren't really super compatible with the normal behavior of young children--I don't take my almost 2 year old to really nice expensive restaurants, or to the opera, on romantic dates with my husband, or to other such events. It's not fair to her to expect adult standards of behavior in a formal situation, and her normal child behavior (being loud, making a mess, eating crayons, wanting to run around) is inappropriate in that setting, would ruin the experience for me and DH, and would be horribly and probably everyone else there, and it would also be boring and unpleasant for her too. Now, she is a delightful child and I love her company, but once in a while I'd like to do something sophisticated and romantic and adult that is better done without her. Some people want their wedding to be more like an evening at a dimly lit romantic pricey restaurant than like the Playland at McDonalds!!

I don't think it's insulting at all. In my mind a "public" wedding (like not a very intimate one) is a ceremony not just for the couple but for the family community they have invited to witness it as well. When I attend a wedding I attend in the belief that the peopel getting married have invited me to witnes thier marriage and to recognize and support it, otherwise why bother? And to me a wedding is a community affair which includes all members of a community, and that means kids. Now does that mean I would take my totally nutso 19 month old to a ceremony? Not unless it was an outdoorsey kind of thing, becuae we would both be miserable. But a reception, for sure (that's dinner/dancing right?). And no kids doesen't just mean no wild toddlers, it means no kids, my 4 yo is more than capable of sitting through a ceremony. He's also more than capable of thinking about family/community/partners/commitment and more than capable of being hurt by exclusion.

A wedding is not like a date, I don't invite half the people I know on a date. A wedding, to my mind, is closer to christmas dinner. Now of course are people entitled to have child free weddings? Of course they are. Far be it from me to tell other people what to do at their wedding. BUt like PP I don't know anyone who would do that, probably because it encompasses a whole set of values that I don't share.

Are their always going to be bratty cousins? Of course. There is always going to be drunken uncles to, I'de prefer if we had "no drunks" wedding. It least it doesen't take 4 adults to wresles bratty kids to the ground. But you know what, drunks and kids are part of family life. And people are entitled to pick and choose, but I think it's perfectly reasonable to judge them as jerks for it. *shrug*

Yeesh, so glad I will never get married. It's gotten way way to intense.


----------



## FarmerCathy (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JustJamie* 
I suppose it's possible; however the post specifically states that the party WILL be boring BECAUSE there is no bar. That, IMO, is indicative of other issues.

I was thinking my stress level might need a drink.









I truly don't remember whether it said on the invitation whether my child was invited whether it said family or his specific name. I recycled the envelope when I sent off the response card. I only have the invitation part.

Don't get me wrong, I love Christian scientists, but knowing my child is being made an exception to the wedding makes me feel streesed out and resentful that it was not made clear when I talked to the groom and his mother about bringing him. It totally might have been overlooked, but still they could have just let me skip the wedding, but doing so is going to make it a big deal and I will most likely be confronted. It's overwhelming I can't sleep because the whole thing just stresses me out.


----------



## ramama (Apr 13, 2007)

There are many different ways to address an invitation: Mr & Mrs Smith, The Smiths, The Smith Family, Mrs Smith and Guest. And some of them are vague. Let's not forget that we don't know how OPs invitation was addressed.

Additionally, this is a family member's wedding, not a coworkers/high school friend/etc. It would be easy to miscommunicate and believe that children are invited because they are also related to the bride. Also, OP is going out of her way to attend this wedding (as a favor to the bride and goom, let's not forget, not the other way around) and travelling a long distance. The bride or groom should have contacted her to thank her for accepting the invitation, ask if there's anything she needs to help with the trip, clarify childcare arrangements, etc. If the bride and groom don't have the time to care for their guests, then maybe they should get married in the courthouse.

What about hospitality etiquette, if we're going to be hardcore about it? Most brides that I've known arrange for childcare with a qualified person (not a juvenile neice) if they don't want children at the ceremony, or if the parents didn't want to run the risk of an "incident" and would prefere their children not attend. This "princess phenomenon" with brides leads to far more etiquette violations than invitations.

It important to consider that in many weddings, particularly large ones, the bride and groom do not personally oversee the addressing/sending of invitations. I have the feeling that it may have been the aunt's responsibility (the bride's mother) which may have been why the aunt notified OP about the "no children" aspect.

I had a situation with a dear aunt's second marriage. No invitations were formally sent, just a small word-of-mouth wedding and I traveled across country with my toddler and newborn to attend, only to find once I got there that children were not invited. So I didn't attend. No harm done, I had family to visit anyway. This aunt never had children herself, so I can understand. And she understood why I wasn't attending. No biggie.

I am fully aware that I am playing the devil's advocate here. I don't really care much about weddings, but thought the conversation was getting a little one-sided in this thread, so though I'd throw in some alternate views...just because I'm a troublemaker!


----------



## ramama (Apr 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *anarchamama* 
I don't think it's insulting at all. In my mind a "public" wedding (like not a very intimate one) is a ceremony not just for the couple but for the family community they have invited to witness it as well. When I attend a wedding I attend in the belief that the peopel getting married have invited me to witnes thier marriage and to recognize and support it, otherwise why bother? And to me a wedding is a community affair which includes all members of a community, and that means kids. Now does that mean I would take my totally nutso 19 month old to a ceremony? Not unless it was an outdoorsey kind of thing, becuae we would both be miserable. But a reception, for sure (that's dinner/dancing right?). And no kids doesen't just mean no wild toddlers, it means no kids, my 4 yo is more than capable of sitting through a ceremony. He's also more than capable of thinking about family/community/partners/commitment and more than capable of being hurt by exclusion.

A wedding is not like a date, I don't invite half the people I know on a date. A wedding, to my mind, is closer to christmas dinner. Now of course are people entitled to have child free weddings? Of course they are. Far be it from me to tell other people what to do at their wedding. BUt like PP I don't know anyone who would do that, probably because it encompasses a whole set of values that I don't share.

Are their always going to be bratty cousins? Of course. There is always going to be drunken uncles to, I'de prefer if we had "no drunks" wedding. It least it doesen't take 4 adults to wresles bratty kids to the ground. But you know what, drunks and kids are part of family life. And people are entitled to pick and choose, but I think it's perfectly reasonable to judge them as jerks for it. *shrug*

Yeesh, so glad I will never get married. It's gotten way way to intense.

Nicely put! You posted while I was still writing so didn't see your response. This is apparently supposed to be a famility wedding, not an aquaintences wedding, and I know that my child would be hurt by not being invited to a family member's wedding. OPs son is younger and wouldn't know the difference, but the conversation has branched to be about all children.


----------



## JoyofBirth (Mar 16, 2004)

I haven 't read all the other replies so sorry if this is a repeat. I'd talk to your cousin who is getting married. Sometimes parents of the bride/groom have their own agenda and your aunt may have misunderstood something. I'd call and ask if your cousin wishes for your child to not be there. If so, then say they should've told you themselves and told you when you were invited and now you cannot make it. Wish them a happy day, send a card.


----------



## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

Personally, I'd cancel, or delay the flight and use it as a holiday at some later stage.

It is NOT OK to not have put this on the invitation. It's fine to have a child free event, but you need to tell people, or else it's just rude.

As an aside, is it not the done thing in the US that anyone can come to the church, it's the recption that is invite only? I don't think I've ever heard of someone dictating who can come to a church ceremony, and it's usually got extra people (family friends, kids of guests, etc) who just come to have a look and say Hi.

Quote:

Invites do say whether the children are permitted. They are addressed to the child by name or to the parents "and family" if children are permitted. If the child is not invited you do not invite the child on the hosts' behalf.

The response if you can't come without your children would be,

I would love to attend, but am unable to leave my son at home. Best wishes, XX.

At that point, you may receive the response of, "Oh we do want you to come, please bring your son!"

Or not.
That. I think we named children specifically, or just adults specifically.


----------



## p1gg1e (Apr 3, 2004)

I had a Child free wedding. It was great. My SIL had an awful wedding that 3 kids were screaming there heads off and they couldnt hear each other....they had to stop and ask the people to please take there kids out ( they were really load..) so because my DH's family isnt polite I asked for no kids under 2...

I offered babysitting and if they didn't want to leave there kids they could just come to the reception. Its not a public wedding its a privet party and its nice to do what people request for those...

Oh and we got drunk also it was great!







:


----------



## Romana (Mar 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
As an aside, is it not the done thing in the US that anyone can come to the church, it's the recption that is invite only? I don't think I've ever heard of someone dictating who can come to a church ceremony, and it's usually got extra people (family friends, kids of guests, etc) who just come to have a look and say Hi.

I don't know the "rule" but I've always received an invitation for both if I was invited - generally everyone invited to wedding ceremony and some people get invited to reception via extra info included with wedding ceremony invite). However, I've also had the opposite. I have a friend getting married in a distant location, and she's only inviting close friends and family to the ceremony but then wants a big reception to celebrate when she gets back from her honeymoon. A little unorthodox, but should be fun in any case.


----------



## FarmerCathy (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JoyofBirth* 
I haven 't read all the other replies so sorry if this is a repeat. I'd talk to your cousin who is getting married. Sometimes parents of the bride/groom have their own agenda and your aunt may have misunderstood something. I'd call and ask if your cousin wishes for your child to not be there. If so, then say they should've told you themselves and told you when you were invited and now you cannot make it. Wish them a happy day, send a card.

I did talk to him and he made it clear that he wanted a child-free wedding, but he'd make an exception. Really he doesn't want my ds to be thier, but is trying to be nice.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *p1gg1e* 
I had a Child free wedding. It was great. My SIL had an awful wedding that 3 kids were screaming there heads off and they couldnt hear each other....they had to stop and ask the people to please take there kids out ( they were really load..) so because my DH's family isnt polite I asked for no kids under 2...

I offered babysitting and if they didn't want to leave there kids they could just come to the reception. Its not a public wedding its a privet party and its nice to do what people request for those...

Oh and we got drunk also it was great!







:

No babysitting offered, in advance notice, nothing. Just totally out of the blue notice.

I think I'm just going to call my Aunt and tell her I'm too stressed out to go to the ceremony and that I will have my Uncle pick me up to go to the reception. Then atleast they will know and I won't have to explain later. I won't let her talk me into coming. It's too much at this point. And what's worse, everywhere we go people keep telling me how well mannered my child is. Maybe somebody is trying to tell me something and I need to bite the bullet and just do it, but I'm going to cover my butt and make sure my ds gets a good nap before the reception and just go to that.


----------



## anarchamama (Mar 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Decca* 
I am having a really, really hard time understanding how "the people listed on the invitation are the people invited" is vague or even some obscure rule.

Totally obscure, news to me, I would have assumed (prior to this thread) and I've been to lots of weddings, that any family event that was adressed to me and dh
included the kids.

I think any "etiquette" that evolves past basic respect is just a way to create class ditinction.


----------



## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 

As an aside, is it not the done thing in the US that anyone can come to the church, it's the recption that is invite only? I don't think I've ever heard of someone dictating who can come to a church ceremony, and it's usually got extra people (family friends, kids of guests, etc) who just come to have a look and say Hi.

Wedding are private affairs and only those who are invited should attend. Extra people just showing up at the church I think is rude.


----------



## ramama (Apr 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *anarchamama* 
Totally obscure, news to me, I would have assumed (prior to this thread) and I've been to lots of weddings, that any family event that was adressed to me and dh
included the kids.

I think any "etiquette" that evolves past basic respect is just a way to create class ditinction.

Holy cow, another statement of yours that I totally agree with, and put a lot susinctly that I could have done. That is totally what I'm talking about! Some people seem to use rules of "etiquette" as a way to make those who don't understand feel stupid and "low class." It's also strange which rules of etiquette people chose to follow...


----------



## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

From what I understand, basic Miss Manners etiquette dictates that a nursling is included in an invitation issued to a mother. I'm not sure where the age cut off is for this - I think a lot of people assume that a young one year old is older than s/he actually is, if you know what I mean.


----------



## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

Quote:

Totally obscure, news to me, I would have assumed (prior to this thread) and I've been to lots of weddings, that any family event that was adressed to me and dh
included the kids.

I think any "etiquette" that evolves past basic respect is just a way to create class ditinction.
This is an old, old basic rule. And really, the whole idea of etiquette is that everyone knows what's up and no one is embarassed. Putting the names of the invitees on an invitation is supposed to eliminate the embarassment of bringing someone who wasn't invited or having to call and ask who exactly is included. It's totally the opposite of making things difficult. General rules of decorum and social etiquette are supposed to make things easier.


----------



## anarchamama (Mar 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NiteNicole* 
This is an old, old basic rule. And really, the whole idea of etiquette is that everyone knows what's up and no one is embarassed. Putting the names of the invitees on an invitation is supposed to eliminate the embarassment of bringing someone who wasn't invited or having to call and ask who exactly is included. It's totally the opposite of making things difficult. General rules of decorum and social etiquette are supposed to make things easier.

But clearly in this case they don't unless MDC has a lot of people who don't understand these "basic" rules. As it seems many people interpret it different wasy. And I suppose to me no matter how I address an invatation I would consider it an extreme breach of basic manners to invite a cousin but not her kids. They are family to. No matter how politely I told them the bigger breach of manners to me is to invite certain members of the family and not others. These are not co-workers we're talking baout.

General rules of decorom also dictate that you take your hat off at the table, and know which fork goes with which dish, and know that there are rules to adressing invatations. I think these rules are all silly. Honestly (and I'm not saying everyone should feel this way) I would feel rude inviting one member of a house hold and not others even if they were parents or roomates.


----------



## ramama (Apr 13, 2007)

But people only use etiqutte when it suits them. How many men remove their hats indoors or hold the door for a woman? How many men stand up at the dinner table when a woman stands? So basically no one adheres to the basic rules of etiquette but expects everyone to know the rules when they want them to. I don't know what it is about weddings that turn people into etiquette snobs.


----------



## pumpkin (Apr 8, 2003)

I really don't think the simple rule that the people invited to an event are the people listed on the invitation is classist, elistist, snobbish, or any other ist. It just seems like common sense. The whole point is to avoid embarrassing or stressful situations about knowing who is suppossed to come.

The only place I have ever encountered someone who didn't know this "rule" is here at MDC. I would never expect that the people I meet IRL are a complete cross-section of the world, but I don't think MDC is a representative sample either.


----------



## OGirlieMama (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pumpkin* 
I really don't think the simple rule that the people invited to an event are the people listed on the invitation is classist, elistist, snobbish, or any other ist. It just seems like common sense. The whole point is to avoid embarrassing or stressful situations about knowing who is suppossed to come.

The only place I have ever encountered someone who didn't know this "rule" is here at MDC. I would never expect that the people I meet IRL are a complete cross-section of the world, but I don't think MDC is a representative sample either.

Ditto that. FWIW, I wouldn't mind being invited to a child-free wedding right about now. My girls are 19 months old and my husband and I have had maybe 4-5 dinners out since they were born. I (and most of my friends with kids) would be happy for a change of pace. Sadly, I'm not in Chicago so I can't take the OPs spot. Should I turn in my AP card now?


----------



## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lovingmommyhood* 
They want their wedding to be "dignified"? All I have to say is Puh-lease.

I see nothing wrong with wanting a dignified wedding ceremony.


----------



## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NiteNicole* 
This is an old, old basic rule. And really, the whole idea of etiquette is that everyone knows what's up and no one is embarassed. Putting the names of the invitees on an invitation is supposed to eliminate the embarassment of bringing someone who wasn't invited or having to call and ask who exactly is included. It's totally the opposite of making things difficult. General rules of decorum and social etiquette are supposed to make things easier.

This is why for my wedding lots of invites read things like


> "Mary & Joe Smtih
> and Family"


or


> "Mary and Joe Smith
> and Robert, Anne and Kerry Smith"


and all our single guest got


> "Ms Polly Lee and Guest"


Kids enjoy seeing thier names on the invitaions and there is no confusion.


----------



## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Our outer envelopes read "The Duffy Family" when there were children invited, and then the inner envelope listed all of the names of the people invited individually, such as "Pat, Kent, Bobby, and Jennifer".


----------



## BlueStateMama (Apr 12, 2004)

I'm not protestant, (I guess I'm just a WAS







) but it's textbook etiquette that the invitation pretty much covers who is invited:

Quote:

Q. What is the appropriate way to include guests' children on the outer envelope of an invitation? Should I address it as "Mr. and Mrs. John Smith and Family," list the children's names, or eliminate the children's names altogether?

A. If you are inviting an entire family, the traditional way to word the invitations is to list the children's names on the inner envelope but not on the outer one (this goes for anyone under 18). Adult children (18 and older) should get their own invitations. The word family can be interpreted widely -- you wouldn't think people would bring their second-cousin-once-removed to your wedding, but it happens! Including each child's name on the invitation will make him or her feel especially invited -- which is a nice touch. Here is how to address:

Outer envelope:
Mr. and Mrs. John Smith

Inner envelope:
Mr. and Mrs. Smith
Peter, Paul, and Mary
http://www.theknot.com/ch_qaarticle....2&parentID=525

That being said, I'd never be that bent out of shape if my children weren't invited. If there was a workable solution (ie my parents could babysit and it was local, or there was childcare provided) I'd go. If it wasn't do-able, I'd (gracefully) decline. I have two young kids and I'm not going to use some one else's wedding to make a stand about my personal AP/parenting view and relationship with my children. A lot of times, the couple doesn't have kids, and doesn't really "get" them or the difficulties with leaving them. I let them have their fantasy.







Eh, it's one day that's crucial to someone else and not worth my creating some huge issue to teach them a "lesson."

There was a time (oh, about 4 or 5 years ago) when honestly, I wasn't that wild about kids.







It took having them to really enjoy all them.







I won't begrudge some 20 somethings who aren't enamoured my toddlers - I just don't take it personally.


----------



## LolaK (Jan 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlueStateMama* 
I'm not protestant, (I guess I'm just a WAS







) but it's textbook etiquette that the invitation pretty much covers who is invited:

http://www.theknot.com/ch_qaarticle....2&parentID=525

That being said, I'd never be that bent out of shape if my children weren't invited. If there was a workable solution (ie my parents could babysit and it was local, or there was childcare provided) I'd go. If it wasn't do-able, I'd (gracefully) decline. I have two young kids and I'm not going to use some one else's wedding to make a stand about my personal AP/parenting view and relationship with my children. A lot of times, the couple doesn't have kids, and doesn't really "get" them or the difficulties with leaving them. I let them have their fantasy.







Eh, it's one day that's crucial to someone else and not worth my creating some huge issue to teach them a "lesson."

There was a time (oh, about 4 or 5 years ago) when honestly, I wasn't that wild about kids.







It took having them to really enjoy all them.







I won't begrudge some 20 somethings who aren't enamoured my toddlers - I just don't take it personally.









:

I am really suprised by the shock, outrage and "I would teach them a lesson" sentiment expressed in this thread. Most people without kids just don't get it. Before I had kids I didn't think it was a big deal to exclude kids from a wedding, in fact I probably would have thought it was a good idea. Then you have kids and all of a sudden you realize what a pain in the ass it is to figure out how to do anything without them, or more to the point that you don't actually WANT to leave them for long periods of time.


----------



## FarmerCathy (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LolaK* 







:

I am really suprised by the shock, outrage and "I would teach them a lesson" sentiment expressed in this thread. Most people without kids just don't get it. Before I had kids I didn't think it was a big deal to exclude kids from a wedding, in fact I probably would have thought it was a good idea. Then you have kids and all of a sudden you realize what a pain in the ass it is to figure out how to do anything without them, or more to the point that you don't actually WANT to leave them for long periods of time.

I'm not trying to teach anyone a lesson. I'm trying to bow out gracefully, but they wouldn't let me. Now saying they will make an exception, but he had to tell me an earful first about how wonderful kid-free weddings were. Now if that's a not a lot of pressure to take, I guess I don't know what is. I already made all the plans to attend and so did my niece and they want to make it more of a big deal than I do. If I were to skip the ceremony it will be a confrontation later I'm sure and my Aunt will be calling my cell and trying to get me to come anyway. I will just say something to my Aunt that we won't be able to make the ceremony after the rehearsal dinner. I just wish I had more than a week to prepare and I think that is what is stressing me out the most. I would have brought dh or not have gone at all.


----------



## forest~mama (Mar 16, 2005)

I think it is tacky that they didn't inform you of this before. Someone in the family should have told you before now, especially since you are planning to fly in. Bad manners!


----------



## BlueStateMama (Apr 12, 2004)

Cathy - (((hugs))) I know you're in a pickle and struggling with dealing with this the "right" way. Please understand I was responding to the sentiments of PP and not your OP! It isn't easy, I know.


----------



## FarmerCathy (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlueStateMama* 
Cathy - (((hugs))) I know you're in a pickle and struggling with dealing with this the "right" way. Please understand I was responding to the sentiments of PP and not your OP! It isn't easy, I know.









Thanks I needed that. Wish me a harmonious and uneventful and not as much stress as I think it's going to be weekend. And hopefully I won't get too many comments or looks for


----------



## FallingLeaves (Nov 30, 2006)

Cathy - I am sorry that your family gave you such short notice. My cousin got married this summer and my DD's name was not included on the invitation so I knew that she wasn't invited. I have no problem with someone wanting a child free wedding, but I wasn't going to attend an event that my daughter wasn't welcome to attend. So I didn't go to my cousins wedding. If I were you, I wouldn't go. It sounds like this situation is causing you too much stress.

I also think I understood what you meant about other people raising your cousins children. The first thing that came to my mind was people that I know who don't work, have full time nannies, and are not involved in the raising of their children at all. These children are status symbols to them and other people are raising them while they are busy with their social lives at the country club. My heart breaks for these children. I'm sorry that so many people gave you a hard time about that comment.

If you still decide to go to the wedding - I hope you can have an enjoyable trip. The stress just wouldn't be worth it to me though.


----------



## FarmerCathy (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JL'smom* 
Cathy - I am sorry that your family gave you such short notice. My cousin got married this summer and my DD's name was not included on the invitation so I knew that she wasn't invited. I have no problem with someone wanting a child free wedding, but I wasn't going to attend an event that my daughter wasn't welcome to attend. So I didn't go to my cousins wedding. If I were you, I wouldn't go. It sounds like this situation is causing you too much stress.

I also think I understood what you meant about other people raising your cousins children. The first thing that came to my mind was people that I know who don't work, have full time nannies, and are not involved in the raising of their children at all. These children are status symbols to them and other people are raising them while they are busy with their social lives at the country club. My heart breaks for these children. I'm sorry that so many people gave you a hard time about that comment.

If you still decide to go to the wedding - I hope you can have an enjoyable trip. The stress just wouldn't be worth it to me though.

Thanks JL'smom. That is exactly what I meant. I'm really trying with this part of the family and didn't think they would be like this. The other thing is my mom is sick right now. Sister to my two Aunts and I don't want to cause anything while my mom is still alive. She is the only one that backed me up 100% though. She tried to tell my Aunt how well behaved my ds. My other Aunt is backing up the bride groom's mom because her older sis knows best. My mom is the oldest of the 3 and they have never really respected her very much. Even though last month my mom told me I'm going to have to put my ds on goats milk soon. She wanted to know where he is going to get his calcium from.


----------



## guardandolaluna (Jun 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TinkerBelle* 
I am usually one to support a bride and groom's decisions, but this one is pretty rude and inconsiderate. One WEEK's notice?

I would most likely cancel my flight and politely send regrets, with a nice card.

ITA!! I would not bother to fly out personally, unless you have other plans there too. I would use the $ to go somewhere fun with my DS and kids









Now I am wondering.. I have a wedding in Oct I am going to- I actually may plan to have my DH stay with the kids at the hotel for the ceremony and then go to the reception later with us. I have two little ones and they may not sit still. My older one will


----------



## fiorio (Aug 30, 2006)

I think that to some people a wedding isn't necessarily a family event. In my extended family the weddings are a bit more relaxed and kids from the family and close friends were always included. I thought that was how everyone did it and couldn't understand why anyone wouldn't want children at their wedding.

When my friend got married a couple years ago (when my son was 7 months old) she did not invite any children other than their nieces and nephews. I was surprised since she ran a daycare and loved children. I did ask if I could bring my son to the ceremony so some old friends could see him, and she was totally fine with that. He didn't make a peep the entire time, so we got lucky.







And then when DH and I got to the reception, I understood why she didn't want to invite children. It was at a beautiful hotel, and definitely more formal (but still fun) than the weddings in my family. That totally changed my view on people who want a childfree wedding. I didn't do it, but I could see how some people would prefer that.

Anyways, we did bail out of the reception as soon as we could...DH and I were missing our little guy too much!


----------



## prothyraia (Feb 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *anarchamama* 
I think any "etiquette" that evolves past basic respect is just a way to create class ditinction.









:


----------



## BlueStateMama (Apr 12, 2004)

Not talking about the OP - but about the etiquette question. What about the "basic respect" of not bringing along people (children, etc) who aren't invited??? I think that essentially crashing someone else's function - a significant day for them - by bringing along your children because it's some sort of stance about AP ideals is incredibly rude. (again, OP, not talking about you, just the issue in general.)

If your children are not invited and you don't want to or can't leave them - politely send your regrets. People have the right to have whatever sort of wedding they want. You have the right not to go. It has nothing to do with classism.


----------



## ggs (Aug 6, 2007)

Well said, Blue State Mama.

I just don't get why people get so bent out of shape about child-free weddings. Having children at a wedding creates a whole different atmosphere, one that some people (particularly child free people) may not be comfortable with. Nothing wrong with that, everyone is entitled to their comfort zone. So, if you don't feel comfortable leaving your child behind to attend an adults-only wedding, DON'T. Simple as that.


----------



## ramama (Apr 13, 2007)

I was one who got bend out of shape over child-free weddings, but now that I think about it, it's not really the actual wedding that upsets me. It's more the attitude that OP should easily be able to attend an out-of-state wedding without her child. Or that she should be able to afford to buy an airplane ticket to bring along a care-giver so that her child doesn't have to stay with a stranger. I find it insulting to the whole mother-child relationship. Or even if it's an in-state wedding, the flippant attitude about "well, just get a babysitter!" Not everyone does that. If bride and groom want a child-free wedding, just be aware that those with children many well chose not to attend. OP's cousin seemed offended that she wouldn't come because her DS wasn't welcome.


----------



## Tofu the Geek (Dec 2, 2003)

Well I for one, am totally confused as to who was actually invited to this wedding. So, I will ask

1. was your niece invited on your invitation, or did she receive her own invitation? I ask this because you said you RSVP'ed for her via an email to your aunt and cousin.
2. was your husband invited? You mentioned somewhere that you felt uncomfortable about the family pics because not everyone was invited and I wasn't sure if you were referring to James or your husband.


----------

