# giving a 3 week old rice cereal- does this sound right to you?



## lovelylisa (Jan 23, 2009)

So, my little baby is a spitter upper and when she spits up, it comes out her nose sometimes. That kind of freaks me out. So I called our new pediatrician today, and she recommended a formula with Rice cereal already added. Or, (since we BF) to mix a couple of tsp of cereal or oatmeal. per oz of pumped milk that I give her.

She's 3 weeks old. That sounds a little crazy to me, to be giving her rice cereal or oatmeal already. I think she should be nursing as much as possible.

Anyone else heard of their Ped. recommending this so soon? This doesn't sound right to me.


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## Avani (Feb 14, 2006)

I would switch ped's immediatley. No that is very wrong. Keep nursing only please.


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

That's a very common first suggestion when babies do a lot of spitting/throwing up. My ped says in abou 10% of reflux babies, it makes things much better and in the other 90%, it makes it worse. My own daughter was not keeping anything down and not gaining weight. We tried mixing in the rice - which is essentially just a thickener - to make a very very runny consistency. It didn't work at all for her. For my niece? All the difference in the world. She started mostly keeping her milk down and gaining weight normally. My daughter eventually had to go on Prevacid.

It may or may not be something you want to try, but it's not totally crazy unusual advice.


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## Subhuti (Feb 18, 2005)

It sounds really old school.

For what it's worth, my first DD would spit up/regurgitate 30% of what she nursed ... until she was ... gees, I can't remember, I think she was standing / walking when it stopped. We were told to bulk her up with formula (not w/rice mixed in) to get her weight up. I wasn't into that at all. Also, they offered pump inhibitors (pepsid?) ... which we declined.

She did not, however, have it coming out of her nose -- I imagine that's more problemmatic.

GL with your little one.


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## lovelylisa (Jan 23, 2009)

I had heard of the rice before...but not this young. My mil said she used to give it to my husband to get him sleep through the night when he was older.

II also wonder if the spitting up thing is because shes so young. she was born at 35w 6days.


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## Bokonon (Aug 29, 2009)

That's horrible advice and potentially very harmful.

Spitting up is usually a laundry problem and not a medical one. Giving a newborn anything but breastmilk (or formula) can cause medical problems.

My kids were both epic spitters as infants. It passed. We went through a lot of burp cloths and laundry, but they gained weight beautifully and stopped spitting up by around 6 months. My mother tells me that I spit up regularly until about a year, so obviously well after I was started on solids.

Is it possible that you have a forceful letdown?

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/fast-letdown.html


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## Bokonon (Aug 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lovelylisa*
> 
> I had heard of the rice before...but not this young. My mil said she used to give it to my husband to get him sleep through the night when he was older.
> 
> II also wonder if the spitting up thing is because shes so young. she was born at 35w 6days.


OMG, your ped. is recommending rice cereal for a baby who hasn't even reached its due date yet??? Run, don't walk, away from this ped.

FWIW my babies both started spitting up while still in the NICU, and the nurses and neonatologists didn't even bat an eye. It just wasn't a problem or a concern.


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## MeredithA (Jul 8, 2011)

I agree with others who have said get a new ped -- immediately! What bad advice your doctor gave you! I had a very forceful letdown with my ds and he had some nose leakage as well. It didn't last long. By maybe 3-4 months he spit up a lot less, and it didn't come out his nose.

Maybe the new ped can take a look to make sure there isn't any issue with the velum (soft palate). Everything is probably just fine. Keep breastfeeding...maybe invest in a few extra burp cloths


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

I would get a new ped asap.

I personally would never recommend feeding rice cereal, but if you are going to do I dont think its even recommended by most peds until 4 months. In fact, most rice cereal says on the packaging not to feed it to newborns.


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## lovelylisa (Jan 23, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bokonon*
> 
> That's horrible advice and potentially very harmful.
> 
> ...


Wow, that kellymom link really sounds like what's been going on with us! I have an appointment next week with a LC, so I will bring that up to her.


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## BubblingBrooks (Dec 29, 2009)

Humans do not have the enzymes needed to absorb and digest grains until around the age of 2 or 3.
And on top of that, your baby still has an open gut, and feeding anything other then milk will cause damage.

In traditional cultures parents would feed grains to older babies, only after chewing it them first. The Amylase enzyme would be mixed into the grain from the saliva, and allow the baby to properly digest it.


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## Alenushka (Jul 27, 2002)

I would see the pedi and ask her about possibility of Acid reflux. giving rice will do nothing for spit up and cause constupation at this age.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lovelylisa*
> 
> So, my little baby is a spitter upper and when she spits up, it comes out her nose sometimes. That kind of freaks me out. So I called our new pediatrician today, and she recommended a formula with Rice cereal already added. Or, (since we BF) to mix a couple of tsp of cereal or oatmeal. per oz of pumped milk that I give her.
> 
> ...


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BubblingBrooks*
> 
> Humans do not have the enzymes needed to absorb and digest grains until around the age of 2 or 3.
> And on top of that, your baby still has an open gut, and feeding anything other then milk will cause damage.
> ...












We have been over this time and time again. Provide proof of this "open gut" woo-ness.


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## Bokonon (Aug 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Adaline'sMama*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How is it "woo-ness"?

http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/solids/delay-solids.html


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## PatioGardener (Aug 11, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bokonon*
> 
> That's horrible advice and potentially very harmful.












On top of over active let down and massive over supply that caused "refluxiness" in my baby, it turned out (after dealing with the breastfeeding issues and also a dairy sensitivity he had) that he also had severe reflux. The acid-makes-his-vocal-cords-clamp-shut-so-baby-can't-breath kind of reflux. Not once did his specialists suggest rice cereal. In fact, one was so happy that he was exclusively breastfed, as breastfeeding helps with reflux.

So even if your baby had severe reflux, rice cereal is no longer recommended as a treatment (at least not by doctors who are up to date on the latest research it seems.) It's really "old school" as a PP said.

I too would be looking for a new doctor for my baby if I were given that advice! (We have a family doctor who we love.)


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## macandcheese (Jun 22, 2010)

OMG. No, no, no. Is your ped. 85 years old?

I agree with the others: get out of there! Either the spit up is normal newborn pukiness, or there's perhaps a reflux issue going on. Either way, rice cereal is not the answer!


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## lovelylisa (Jan 23, 2009)

I didn't love this Ped to begin with (I loved our last Ped but we moved) so you all basically confirmed what I was feeling anyway. Thanks  I'm going to talk to the LC about the letdown thing, and maybe that'll help some of the spitting uppiness. Especially sometimes she flails about like she's getting a huge mouthful so that makes sense.

My son was way into spitting up, so I wasn't alarmed till I saw milk comng out heir nose.


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## Marissamom (Dec 17, 2009)

my guess would be that the spit-up out the nose will go away with a little age (though once you find a better ped you should get her soft palate checked). is she laying when the spit comes out the nose? if so you can try having her on an incline or upright when she's likely to spit up and it's less likely to go out the nose.


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## aikigypsy (Jun 17, 2007)

My baby had some reflux, and this was discussed as a treatment, but we never tried it. He gained well and wasn't miserable, so I didn't think there was any need to actively treat the reflux, especially not with drugs. I would have tried rice cereal before the drugs, though. His digestion seemed to improve slightly after introducing (homemade) rice cereal at 4 months adjusted age (5.5 months after his birth) but at 10 months he still spits up occasionally.

The advice to try rice cereal or oatmeal wouldn't make me drop the doctor, but if you have other issued with this pediatrician, it might add to the points against him/her. Our ped has given us much worse advice (to wean before 12 months?!?).


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## maryeliz (Oct 27, 2005)

My baby has reflux and we tried rice when she was still in the NICU. Like one of the pp said, our doc told us that rice works for some babies and doesn't work for others. One other problem for breastfed babies is that breastmilk breaks down the rice reducing potential effectiveness (this was what the docs told us). We tried the rice in breastmilk anyway, but unfortunately it did nothing. I know a lot of people are horrified by the idea of giving young babies rice, but for me, in terms of trying to do no harm to a baby, I would rather use rice than medication. Our docs put off using meds as long as possible because they said there are no good studies of the longterm effects of many of these meds-and some turn out to be scary,Reglan, for example, used to be widely prescribed but is now recognized to have serious potential side effects- which can potentially be a lot worse for babies than rice. If my baby had shown any signs of having gut issues, or if we had a family history of allergies I might have said no to the rice.

All that said, after we tried the rice and it didn't work, we moved to zantac, which also didn't work. My lo has now been taking prevacid for six months and it works really well for her.

ETA: It looks like there is a discussion in Breastfeeding Challenges that might be useful to you about figuring out whether a baby is having reflux issues or a hindmilk/foremilk issue.


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## Alenushka (Jul 27, 2002)

When my baby was spiting up, and fussy and coliky my Russian mother told me to eat a lot of dill. Which I did. It seemed harmless enough. It worked. Of course, it is statistical sample of 1 subject. So, who knows.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I've been hearing the "rice in the bottle" idea for years. I've seen it at work many, many times. I can't say that I've seen it cause any problems in kids as they get older. Our parents put rice in our bottles as infants too.

However, it's great in theory, but it really doesn't work. The idea is, it's supposed to thicken the milk, and keep things from coming back out. But, if you make a bottle of rice and milk, even if you shake it really well, within a few moments, the rice settles to the bottom, and the milk is still liquid at the top. So, it still comes back up.

One thing I HAVE seen that helps is putting the baby down right away. Either in a reclining stroller, or one of those fisher price rocker seats. Even that doesn't work all the time. It's actually just a delay in the spitting up.... I mean, how long can an infant sit there? Eventually you have to pick her up, and she's going to yak on you again.

I've heard that feeding from only one breast at a time will help. (or was it half feed on each breast?? I can't remember)

There are other really great tricks out there. All doctors will say or do something wrong at one point. If you don't like what you hear 10% of the time, maybe you can live with that. If you don't like what you hear 50% of the time, you should probably find a new doctor. It's like all advice, some you like, some you don't. There isn't even one perfect parenting book out there, you take what you want, and ignore the rest.


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## Bokonon (Aug 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nextcommercial*
> 
> There are other really great tricks out there. All doctors will say or do something wrong at one point. If you don't like what you hear 10% of the time, maybe you can live with that. If you don't like what you hear 50% of the time, you should probably find a new doctor. It's like all advice, some you like, some you don't. There isn't even one perfect parenting book out there, you take what you want, and ignore the rest.


But this doctor is recommending rice cereal for an infant who hasn't even reached its due date yet, just for spitting up, without even examining it for reflux or poor weight gain, and who didn't even suggest overactive letdown as a possibility. That sounds to me like a ped. who is neither breastfeeding-friendly nor breastfeeding-knowledgeable, and that kind of "advice" could rapidly derail a normal breastfeeding relationship.

And to me, that IS harmful.


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## lovelylisa (Jan 23, 2009)

That's what kind of annoys me about the dr.... she hasn't quite been giving me answers to things that I feel comfortable with. She didn't even ask if I was breastfeeding in the first place, she just told me to buy the rice formula. Then, after the rice suggestion, she said "I hate to tell you not to breastfeed her, but I'd give her the bottle with the rice in it"

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bokonon*
> 
> But this doctor is recommending rice cereal for an infant who hasn't even reached its due date yet, just for spitting up, without even examining it for reflux or poor weight gain, and who didn't even suggest overactive letdown as a possibility. That sounds to me like a ped. who is neither breastfeeding-friendly nor breastfeeding-knowledgeable, and that kind of "advice" could rapidly derail a normal breastfeeding relationship.
> 
> And to me, that IS harmful.


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## BubblingBrooks (Dec 29, 2009)

I have no idea what "wooness" is. I also have never discussed the open gut on this forum before.

*Quote:*


> *Delaying solids decreases the risk of food allergies.
> It is well documented that prolonged exclusive breastfeeding results in a lower incidence of food allergies (see Allergy References and Risks of Artificial Feeding). From birth until somewhere between four and six months of age, babies possess what is often referred to as an "open gut."
> 
> 
> ...


Quote:



> Originally Posted by *Adaline'sMama*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

I'm not sure if this was mentioned already, but when I was looking into it, I read that thickening feeds can be dangerous because if the baby aspirates particles (rice cereal) it's worse than aspirating liquids like breastmilk. Sorry, that is a horribly-worded sentence, but hopefully you get my drift. I believe it may also be more likely for baby to aspirate thickened feeds. Also, although spitting up _may_ decrease with thickening, I have heard that silent reflux is still present. So less mess but not less pain & injury etc. for the baby. Plus the baby may fill up too quickly & ultimately not get enough nutrients.

I wouldn't be comfortable continuing to see a doc who recommended this... ESPECIALLY in a preemie...


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BubblingBrooks*
> 
> In traditional cultures parents would feed grains to older babies, only after chewing it them first. The Amylase enzyme would be mixed into the grain from the saliva, and allow the baby to properly digest it.


Although I agree with your conclusion, I'm not sure about your reasoning. Isn't amylase present in high amounts in breastmilk? So wouldn't mixing rice cereal with expressed milk do something similar to pre-chewing babies' food?

Also, where did you get the 'can't digest grains 'til 2 or 3 years old' data? I have generally heard about 6mos (due to amylase being available in baby's pancrease around that time).


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

First of all, I know that Kellymom is a great resource for breastfeeding, but I do not consider it to be "proof" of scientific evidence that putting anything in your baby's gut before six months is harmful. One article written 3 years ago by Ann Calandro is not "proof" that babies will be harmed or develop allergies when fed other things besides breastmilk in the first 6 months of life. This line of advice makes a lot of mom's feel really bad, insinuating that once a mother has done something once, they have "ruined" their child's virgin gut. What about mom's who have to feed formula. I guess they are just ruining their kids virgin gut. There has been more recent evidence that is in favor of introducing foods earlier to prevent allergies.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/121/1/e44?maxtoshow=&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=1&andorexacttitle=and&andorexacttitleabs=and&fulltext=solid+food&andorexactfulltext=phrase&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/125/1/50

(This, posted several months ago in one of the threads below by MDC user MJB. )

And, as you can see in all of these threads, everytime someone refreneces virgin gut, they just give a link to kellymom. While Kellymom is a good breastfeeding resource, I dont believe they are the authority on when to start feeding kids things other than breasmilk.

http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1291932/continue-with-just-mama-milk-or-add-some-food
http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1292893/need-link-to-new-food-allergy-study
http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1279614/starting-solids
http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1273996/those-of-you-who-do-blw-how-do-you-give-the-baby-chunks-without-being-scared-of-choking/40 (GASP! Please, dont feed babies under 6 months)
http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1283644/babies-and-foods

Then, of course, there is this gem, one of my very first posts, where a user used some really snotty smilies at me and introduced me to the concept of the "virgin gut." Needless to say, I didnt quit letting my kid taste things. She is now 16 months and will eat about anything you put in front of her (including super sourdough pancakes) and she is extremely healthy and still nursing a ton. Also, no diagnosed allergies and she eats nuts, gluten, grains, and lots of dairy.

http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1233035/what-have-you-put-in-your-baby-s-mouth


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## seraf (Feb 1, 2002)

Th nose and mouth are connected. If a kid spits up with her mouth closed, I would expect it to come out her nose.

My daughter was a projectile puker. I found that she was more comfortable if I nursed her upright and kept her upright. I eventually discovered she had problems with some of the foods I was eating.

Good luck figuring out what's best for your baby.


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## Amanda_Reyasmom (Feb 5, 2010)

I agree with everyone who said RUN don't walk away from this ped. I'd also like to suggest a chiro for baby. If it's reflux (and it probably is lol) they can work wonders!


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## Bokonon (Aug 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Adaline'sMama*
> 
> First of all, I know that Kellymom is a great resource for breastfeeding, but I do not consider it to be "proof" of scientific evidence that putting anything in your baby's gut before six months is harmful. One article written 3 years ago by Ann Calandro is not "proof" that babies will be harmed or develop allergies when fed other things besides breastmilk in the first 6 months of life. This line of advice makes a lot of mom's feel really bad, insinuating that once a mother has done something once, they have "ruined" their child's virgin gut. What about mom's who have to feed formula. I guess they are just ruining their kids virgin gut. There has been more recent evidence that is in favor of introducing foods earlier to prevent allergies.


Oh jeez.

That's like saying that every single person who smokes will develop lung cancer. Obviously it doesn't work like that.

Can it be harmful? Yes, it can. And that's regardless of how it makes moms feel. If a mother feels bad because of the scientific evidence that breastfeeding is ideal nutrition for most human babies, then that's her issue to deal with - worrying about mothers feeling bad doesn't negate the cold, hard truth.

It's like if I said that all the evidence that vaginal births are better for babies and moms makes me feel bad because I had to have a c-section, therefore it should never be discussed.

Yup, formula feeding has risks. Many of them lifelong. Is this related to the virgin gut? Maybe, maybe not. But Kellymom.com is a site for evidence-based breastfeeding advice.

The OP is talking about a pediatrician recommending solid food to a premature infant with a negative gestational age. You just can't argue that there is no risk involved there. Common sense would tell you there is risk, regardless of how guilty it might make someone feel.


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## hildare (Jul 6, 2009)

can we please stop the tiresome accusations about who should and shouldn't or does and doesn't have "common sense?" That's a vague, tired, and overused cliche, plus the meaning of it is relative to the user. If you have to trot out the common sense horse in a real argument you have already lost.

at any rate, OP, i have heard of physicians recommending this before. i have no idea whether it works, but it isn't a shockingly unusual suggestion. i know the spitting up at that age and for your baby in particular can be scary. i wouldn't say "run away" from that physician, but it wouldn't hurt to get a second opinion, either.


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## APToddlerMama (Oct 5, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Adaline'sMama*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Of all people Adaline'sMama. Have some respect for different views. You are constantly demanding it from others.


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## APToddlerMama (Oct 5, 2009)

OP--I have just scanned the responses and need to run. I wanted to say my preterm DS had terrible reflux for the first year, which it sounds like you are dealing with. I would try the traditional reflux remedies...burping frequently during feedings, keeping her upright for 20 minutes after a feed, elevating her sleeping surface, pulling dairy and/or other common irritants from your diet etc. I would not start thickening breastmilk/formula *unless* you think she is aspirating, which it doesn't sound like she is. If you do have concerns about that, you would need to get her into a specialist asap as that is very serious and the only decent reason I can think of to thicken liquid at this age. My reflux baby did very poorly with a number of foods including oatmeal. I would look at your diet very seriously first. I really regret not cutting dairy out of mine when DS was nursing. A number of my friends have done that with great results for baby's reflux. Good luck.


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *APToddlerMama*
> 
> Of all people Adaline'sMama. Have some respect for different views. You are constantly demanding it from others.


You're right, and I probably shouldn't have called it "woo," I just get really defensive about the fact that it seems that people are always representing the concept of virgin gut. I feel this way because I was made to feel like I had ruined my kid by feeding her something else. I hate it when it comes up in threads because I feel like it is probably making a lot of new moms (maybe lurkers, maybe members) feel like they have already ruined their new tiny baby just by giving them formula a few times or letting them eat rice cereal or letting them taste dill pickle juice.

But, you are right, I should have been nicer about it. Im sorry.


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## nia82 (May 6, 2008)

Both my kids spit up like nobody's business. It's more of a laundry problem than anything else. I have plenty of milk luckily and both my kids spit up about 2-3 ounces easily after each nursing session. DS still mad it to the 99th percentile of weight within 6 weeks of birth (he was in the 7th at birth!) and DD now weighs 16lb at 5 months, which is somewhere between 50-75th percentile, so they must be getting plenty.  As long as your DD is growing fine, I wouldn't bother. We don't do any cereals in the house anyways.


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## SweetSilver (Apr 12, 2011)

Sounds like most of the bases have been covered, but no mention of this: rice cereal, even brown rice cereal, is a highly processed food. Most peds like it to be introduced early because it has iron. It took me 5 years to discover that my daughter's system is extremely sensitive to iron and the amounts in multivitamins and rice cereal caused constipation.

Rice cereal is a filler, 100% processed carbs. It doesn't have the calorie concentration that BM does (formula's calorie content is equivalent to BM). 2 kids later, and I finally realized that rice cereal just didn't belong in their diet, even at 6mo. Infants have no business consuming this. (I can't conceive of every possible situation, so that is based only on what I understand right now.)

Allergies can arise, BTW, even if no solids have been introduced. This I know 1st hand.


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## nia82 (May 6, 2008)

Oh I wanted to add to the background discussion - the adding rice cereal to BM or formula appears to me to be an American thing. My mom raised us kids in the 70ies-80ies (baby/toddler time, in East Germany), we were all formula fed and she has never heard of adding cereal to the bottle. I know I only know my mom, aunts and friends, but none of them have ever heard it and found it quite weird.. Just my 2 cents....


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## coffeegirl (Jan 1, 2008)

Just replying to the OP....

You do what you feel is best by your baby. But it doesn't at all sound right to me to be giving a premature 3 week-old anything but milk or formula. Goes against everyrthing I've ever heard or read, including my experience in the NICU w/ my girl. I don't know how much of this is woo, but I've always been told by doctors that when they're newborn their bellies are designed to absorb milk.

ETA: I know that rice cereal is inexplicably a "hot topic" around here. BUT I am not against rice cereal....It's the 3-weeks-old thing that is wrong.


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## katelove (Apr 28, 2009)

Increased intestinal permeability is an accepted concept in my field. I assume that's what people are referring to when they talk about a "leaky gut"?

The first couple of sentences of this paper mention it and this article discusses it in more detail.

If you put "infant intestinal permeability" into Google Scholar there are lots more.


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## GiJohnsGirl (Jul 2, 2011)

I have never had to do the rice cereal thing, but my daughter is the same age. She is formula fed and a week ago she started to have terrible spit up. It came out of her nose and it was projectile and after every feeding. I know this won't help you, but I switched her formula, held her upright for 15-20 minutes, massaged her tummy and it seemed to have worked. My point is - as much as it freaked me out that it came out of her nose and exorcist like- she was hardly disturbed by it. She gave a small whimper and gave me the look of where is the rest of my food. The similac website has an image of what is the proper amount of spit up (breast fed or formula fed spit up is spit up) I would take a look at that and consider switching. Out of all the things - that should not be the first recommendation for a baby that young imo.


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## portlandmama (Apr 30, 2006)

FWIW...I have seen rice cereal work. The amount that is used is really quite small although it is certainly not preferable. I would avoid it in favor of positioning but I would try it and many other things, over a prescription. Gastroesophageal Reflux ( as opposed to typical spit up) can cause feeding problems if under treated...and it really doesn't have to be that severe. It's a common problem in preemies. Maybe instead of running away from a pediatrician, you can talk to him or her about concerns. It is supposed to be a collaboration and this recommendation is not necessarily indicative of terrible recommendations to come. If you are that concerned you can interview this person to see if it is otherwise a good match. Rcommendations are just that. If it is not a good fit than ask for another recommendation. It is a good idea to meet and interview a ped or any care provider before you select them to make sure that it is a good match....I think that if you cannot ask why than that is a bigger indication to run. Do what is best for your baby as only you know.


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## lovelylisa (Jan 23, 2009)

Thanks everyone for your suggestions! I met with the lactation consultant today and we think maybe my letdown is too fast for the lil one sometimes, especially when I haven't nursed in a while. DD lets me get about 4 hours in a row at night and then in the morning my boobs are pretty full.

But I think Im starting to even out and I'm trying to keep her sitting up more after she eats, and her nose spewing has stopped some. And she's gained 2lbs since we left the hospital, so I am sure I panicked over nothing 

We will hold off on the solid foods. Let's let her hit her due date first 

Thanks again!


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## Midwesterner04 (Nov 19, 2009)

I would consider finding a new ped as well. This is very old-school advice and probably indicates that the ped is not that accustomed to dealing with breastfed babies. Best medical practices can be different depending on whether a nursing or a formula-fed baby is involved (adding rice to a formula bottle is fundamentally different from weaning a BF-ed baby to formula thickened with rice or even adding it to breastmilk). The most recent literature tends to favor *delaying* solids and non-breastmilk liquids for babies with GERD, not introducing them very, very early. Breastmilk is soothing to the gut and helps to heal/reduce esophageal damage in severe cases of GERD. It also is absorbed into the lungs when aspirated, something that isn't true of other foods. Babies who are refluxing due to food sensitivities have an even greater need for the immune and gut health support breastmilk provides. Yes, plenty of BF babies have allergies and plenty of FF babies do not, but breastmilk does give a baby his or her best chance at tolerating a wide range of potential allergens. If I were in your situation I would do my best to keep my baby on breastmilk.

I had a baby with reflux and what worked for us was:

Carrying DC upright or in cradle position with her head and shoulders elevated

Wearing DC for naps

Cutting the top 8 allergens (dairy, eggs, and soy were the worst offenders) and garlic from my diet and adding probiotics and digestive enzymes. With time DC's intolerances improved and we now can eat just about anything except dairy and soy.

Low doses of Zantac when the reflux was causing DC pain. We got ours from a compounding pharmacy in order to avoid the alcohol, flavoring, parabens, and sugar/sweeteners, and were glad that DC ended up only needing the ranitidine for a very short period of time.

I hope things improve for you and your baby!


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## Midwesterner04 (Nov 19, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lovelylisa*
> 
> But I think Im starting to even out and I'm trying to keep her sitting up more after she eats, and her nose spewing has stopped some. And she's gained 2lbs since we left the hospital, so I am sure I panicked over nothing


This is really great news! Grow, baby, grow!


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## coffeegirl (Jan 1, 2008)

FWIW, the recent studies I have seen (linked over here, I think?) have said that the benefits of delaying solids are equally true of breastfed babies and formula-fed babies. Which is just to say....Feeding a baby formula and feeding a baby rice cereal are two different things and not even in the same ballpark. Premies and other at risk babies in NICUs who don't/can't nurse or eat expressed breast milk for whatever reason are given formula and thrive on it. I've seen solids and formula grouped together in a few posts here and that's a bit misleading.


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## TheDivineMrsM (Oct 5, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Midwesterner04*
> 
> This is really great news! Grow, baby, grow!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lovelylisa*
> 
> Thanks everyone for your suggestions! I met with the lactation consultant today and we think maybe my letdown is too fast for the lil one sometimes, especially when I haven't nursed in a while. DD lets me get about 4 hours in a row at night and then in the morning my boobs are pretty full.
> 
> ...


Yay!! Glad that the LC was able to help you. Good job on the weight gain, Mommy!!


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## MamatobabyA (Jan 3, 2011)

My son had terrible reflux and we tried the rice in the bottle with the breastmilk thing. I will never try it with future babies and it makes me sad to think that I tried it at all. It made everything so much worse. I was trying to avoid medication. He would scream in pain after the rice and was still having terrible reflux. I remember DH sitting with him in the rocking chair when DS was about 4 weeks old. Baby A was literally dry heaving in my husbands lab, his skin was green and in between heaves he would scream. I was done. We stopped the cereal and added Prevacid. 1 week later I had a brand spanking new happy baby!

If you or your ped really think thicker milk would help, I would ask about a non-nutrative thickener instead. It usually used for very premature babies who have swallowing/aspiration issues.

On a side note, spit up is sometimes normal for babies. Just because it's coming out of her nose doesn't mean it's a bad thing. Is she happy the rest of the time? Content after nursing? Gradually having longer awake periods?


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## MaddisonYontz (Oct 1, 2012)

My son is 3weeks old as well and he will eat 4oz every 1hr or sooner. The normal formula doesn't keep him full so I added just a little bit of gerber baby rice cereal to his bottle and it keeps him fuller longer


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## Bokonon (Aug 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaddisonYontz*
> 
> My son is 3weeks old as well and he will eat 4oz every 1hr or sooner. The normal formula doesn't keep him full so I added just a little bit of gerber baby rice cereal to his bottle and it keeps him fuller longer


Please read the rest of the thread - it is VERY dangerous to give a 3 week old anything but breastmilk or formula.


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## Heather Lyn (Apr 26, 2010)

In regular circumstances this definitely sounds wrong. I don't know anything about reflux treatments. But in general, definitely doesn't sound like sound advice and I would get several other pediatric opinions if possible.


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## MaddisonYontz (Oct 1, 2012)

My son will be one month on Friday the 12th and according to gerber as long as he comes to the spoon and is a supported sitter meaning sits up with help than he's ok to eat rice and certain baby food.. My son has full head control basically so he can sit in his bumbo and hold his head up just fine.. If ur child is like than than its ok to feed them formula and add something to it like a small amount of rice. I'm also starting him on apple sauce an bananas today so I will let everyone know how that goes


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## SandiMae (Jul 7, 2005)

Of course, we each get to choose how we feed our babies, but it seems that a 1-month old is very young (read: too young) for anything but breastmilk or formula. I am writing because I'm nervous that another mother will read your post about your baby's eating habits and model her baby after what you're doing and not necessarily research beyond. Unlikely, maybe, but this is truly a passion of mine....

Gerber is happy to sell you baby food, but , I'm sure, but I personally am planning to stick to the WHO and UNICEF guidelines, which are also quoted on the Gerber website: "Review of evidence has shown that, on a population basis, exclusive breastfeeding for 6 months is the optimal way of feeding infants. Thereafter infants should receive complementary foods with continued breastfeeding up to 2 years of age or beyond" (empahsis mine). (Links here and here) Also, this is their definition: "Exclusive breastfeeding - the infant only receives breast milk without any additional food or drink, not even water"

And remember, babies have tiny stomachs so of course they eat frequently! Especially good for newly-nursing mothers is this story about The Princess and the Chickpea. My now-3 month old son is a big-time 'cluster feeder' - he eats nearly constantly for a few hours each evening (I used to joke that it was from 5 p.m. to 11 p.m., and sometimes it was very close to that entire time that he was latched onto my breast!) and then sleeps for up to 7 hours with a single sleepy feeding in the middle somewhere, usually initiated by me.

To the OP, my LO used to spit up a lot through his nose too and it made me so sad for him. I cut out dairy, eggs, and soy (one at a time, hoping I wouldn't have to avoid them all) and now he only spits up if we miss getting a burp out. I ate a sample of Greek yogurt on Sunday and he had terrible spit ups on Monday. Even a little can make a big difference!


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## fruitfulmomma (Jun 8, 2002)

Madison PLEASE STOP. Your child is too young for solids. Current recommendations by all major health orginizations is a minimum of 6 months of exclusive breastfeeding or formula. If your baby is hungry you need to increase the number of bottles he is getting, not fill his tummy with foods he can not properly digest and which pose choking hazards to him. Have you asked his doctor about this plan?


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## fruitfulmomma (Jun 8, 2002)

The Gerber website actually states... "Before starting solid foods, make sure your baby is at least 4 months old and shows signs that she's ready"

http://www.gerber.com/allstages/slideshow.aspx?gcid=bee8d12a-46c0-40e6-bb7f-97f7562e62bf


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## Ratchet (Mar 24, 2011)

The formula companies make specific anti-reflux formula, like "Enfamil AR" and I guess the AR means anti-reflux but really it is "added rice"-- the have rice starch (not super different from rice cereal) already added in. BUT they do it very specifically to keep the nutrition content the same as the regular formula, which is NOT the case if you just add your own rice, especially if adding too much. If I was going to make a dietary change, I would feel more comfortable doing it that way (while also focusing of course on things like burping, positioning, small frequent feeds, etc). IMO it is not the exposure to rice that is the big issue but rather the changes with nutritional intake. Yea, some babies will react badly to rice, but look at the mega long list of ingredients in formula- any of us could react badly to anything.


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## dannic (Jun 14, 2005)

OP, the other recent issue with rice cereal in general is the high arsenic levels that are being found in rice right now...according to consumerreprts.org, infant rice cereal tested very high in arsenic, which is super scary, imo.

here is the link:

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2012/11/arsenic-in-your-food/index.htm


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## SweetSilver (Apr 12, 2011)

Good information, dannic, but this thread is over a year old, and OP's baby is a bit older now and probably past the rice-cereal age. The thread has been active because MaddisonYontz revived it and has been offering advice that is ill-advised at best, dangerous at worst


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## dannic (Jun 14, 2005)

woops. well, all the more reason for maddison to not feed it to her newborn, also. blush.


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## lovelylisa (Jan 23, 2009)

My little girl is now 16 mo old, we avoided the rice cereal completely and found a new dr.Still breastfeeding too


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## MaddisonYontz (Oct 1, 2012)

My son eats 8oz bottles at a time, he holds his head up on his own and opens his mouth for the spoon, every baby developes differently his tummy doesn't get up set he doesn't throw up and his poop is normal, I don't make him eat anything he doesn't want too. My doctor says introduce it slowly which I'm doing


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## Bokonon (Aug 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaddisonYontz*
> 
> My son eats 8oz bottles at a time, he holds his head up on his own and opens his mouth for the spoon, every baby developes differently his tummy doesn't get up set he doesn't throw up and his poop is normal, I don't make him eat anything he doesn't want too. My doctor says introduce it slowly which I'm doing


I'm sorry, but that is way too much food for a baby that age. It sounds like might be overfeeding him by giving him a huge bottle every time he fusses, and he can't stop the flow of liquid, so he gulps it all down.

Introducing solids on top of overfeeding formula at such a young age can have dire consequences for his lifelong health. That kind of feeding can easily lead to childhood obesity and the risks that accompanies it, such as juvenile diabetes. Pediatricians have very little training in nutrition, and I'm afraid if yours is saying that rice cereal at this age is ok, he's giving you outdated and dangerous advice.


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## fruitfulmomma (Jun 8, 2002)

Is he able to sit up well on his own? That is a readiness sign. Holding up your head and opening your mouth are not. My kiddoes do that from birth.

And how much he is eating is not a readiness sign either.If he is still hungry he needs more bottles. Applesauce, bananas, and rice are not appropriate fillers. They take away from his ability to fill up on nutritionally appropriate food.

Your doctor is advising you against all current research and guidelines for introduction to solids.

Damage to the gut is often silent for years.


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## fruitfulmomma (Jun 8, 2002)

Is that too much? I have only breastfed so I don't really know how much 8oz is. Perhaps more frequent, smaller feedings would be in order then. I am so sick of hearing doctors tell moms to thicken their bottles or start solids because baby is hungry. Well, duh! Baby's tummy is small. He can only eat so much and then he digests it and is hungry again pretty quickly. Adding stuff that makes it harder/longer to digest may tide him over but that doesn't mean it is good for him.


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## Bokonon (Aug 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fruitfulmomma*
> 
> Is that too much? I have only breastfed so I don't really know how much 8oz is. Perhaps more frequent, smaller feedings would be in order then. I am so sick of hearing doctors tell moms to thicken their bottles or start solids because baby is hungry. Well, duh! Baby's tummy is small. He can only eat so much and then he digests it and is hungry again pretty quickly. Adding stuff that makes it harder/longer to digest may tide him over but that doesn't mean it is good for him.


If he's eating 8 oz. every 3 hours, that's 64 oz. a day. A breastfed baby takes in an average of about 25oz. With the caloric content being about the same, that baby is eating more than twice the calories every day as his breastfed counterpart. Breastfed babies take in roughly the same amount regardless of age, but formula does not change with age, so formula-fed babies often take in more as they get older. At about 5 weeks of age, if this baby is already taking in way more than would ever be recommended for a newborn, he is on track to be eating far more than he needs to for the rest of his life.

http://www.themedguru.com/articles/over-feeding-leads-childhood-obesity-study-86122123.html


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