# Spinoff: Eating out



## kkeris (Oct 15, 2005)

I am just really curious after reading 4 pages of the going-out-to-eat thread, would like to hear more from GD mamas.









Is it okay if your child does this in a restaurant, if its not, what would you do if the child refuses to stop after lots of gentle coaxing:

- Walk/pace around in the restaurant, just wandering around looking at other diners and stuff but not touching anything. (presuming this is before the food comes or after your child has ate, and that you are seated at a table that enables you to see your child clearly from where you are seated)

- Wanders and starts chatting with waitressing staff and alot of other diners at their tables, asking questions and so on.

- Climbs up on a chair at another table with diners already sitting there, and peers interestedly at what they are eating/talkng about.

- Stands up on the booth seat that you guys are seated at and refuses to sit down (but not jumping either).

- Wanders around the restaurant looking for interesting stuff to hold/touch, resuming this is a typical curious 2 year old child.

- Wanders around the restaurant looking for interesting stuff to hold/touch, presuming this is a 3-4 year old child who knows not to handle glass/fragile objects without asking for permission first, and a cautious child who is good with gentle touches/handing.

Unless stated, lets presume that the above scenarios are about a 3 year old child. What will you 'permit'?


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

I work in a restaurant and it is VERY dangerous to allow small children to wander. We can not always see them and they can easily get hurt or trip a wiatress carrying food or hot coffee on a tray.
If your child must wander please hold their hand and show them around. We can see grownups better.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

The only one I might put up with would be the standing in a booth. Provided he wasn't leaning over and bothering the people eating in a booth behind us. When our son was younger, like 1.5, if DP and I were out with family or friends and it wasn't easy to just get up and leave, we took turns walking with DS outside. Not in the restaurant, where he could get in the way. But if it is ever just us and DS isn't in a mood to deal with "restaurant manners" we ask the server to pack our food to go and take it home.


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## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess* 
The only one I might put up with would be the standing in a booth..

Ditto.

We always ask for a booth, or if there are only tables we try to get one next to a wall or corner so that we can sort of keep dd pinned in if she's restless. And we take her for walks around the restaurant as needed.

But I would never let her leave our table unattended by one of us. It's too dangerous and also just inconsiderate to other diners.


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## mackysmama (Jan 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess* 
The only one I might put up with would be the standing in a booth. Provided he wasn't leaning over and bothering the people eating in a booth behind us. When our son was younger, like 1.5, if DP and I were out with family or friends and it wasn't easy to just get up and leave, we took turns walking with DS outside. Not in the restaurant, where he could get in the way.









: exactly that! Where is the original thread?


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## veggijessie (Aug 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hipumpkins* 
I work in a restaurant and it is VERY dangerous to allow small children to wander. We can not always see them and they can easily get hurt or trip a wiatress carrying food or hot coffee on a tray.
If your child must wander please hold their hand and show them around. We can see grownups better.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Yeah. The standing in a booth happens and doesn't bother me. The rest? No way.

-Angela


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

We did walk my ds1 around quite a bit when we were at a restaurant with him and family over Thanksgiving, and couldn't leave.

Otherwise, we almost never go. They can learn restaurant manners when they get older. It isn't worth it now.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Oh, sorry. A three year old? No way. Our dd could use restaurant manners when she was three. She couldn't last for hours on end, but she could sit quietly and color, or occasionally stand up and look around and make it through dinner at your average restaurant. But no way would I let her walk around. I guess I ought to go read that other thread!


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## kkeris (Oct 15, 2005)

If its a very quiet and spacious casual family restaurant and only 2-3 other tables were taken, you guys still would have a problem with your child quietly and slowly wandering around (presuming he is in your full view)?


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## mamaofprincesses (Jun 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kkeris* 
If its a very quiet and spacious casual family restaurant and only 2-3 other tables were taken, you guys still would have a problem with your child quietly and slowly wandering around (presuming he is in your full view)?

As other posters mentioned, when you've worked in a restaurant you get anxious about small children wandering around.

I worked in a restaurant that had many tall waiters, guys over 6 foot, who would load a tray with heavy platters of steaks and sauce and whatnot, and run down a flight of stairs. They were good at it and never dropped. But, if a small child were around, they might easily trip. And they weren't always hurrying just because it was busy; sometimes business was slow and they still walked quickly because they wanted a smoke break/to get their side work done/restroom break. I'm not saying that all servers do this or that they shouldn't watch where they are going, I'm just saying that, as a former server, I would not allow my child to wander around because of things I have seen. This is one where it isn't a question of politeness, it's a question of safety.


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## tm2840 (Feb 23, 2005)

Definitely no solo wandering - another person speaking as a former waitress and concerned about safety. My biggest nightmare is the staff person who disregarded all the "Never NEVER put a coffee pot on a tray" rules and snuck one on a loaded tray for convenience, tripped on my child and scalded him/her with coffee.

This could happen with any restaurant, any time, any level of business.

I have walked WITH my children a lot. We try to leave other diners some privacy unless they are obviously grinning at and wanting to talk to a (IMHO) very cute kid.









Sitting in a booth is okay. Bouncing in a booth is not. Bouncing means it's time for us to walk again, in or outside of the restaurant.

My daughter at three year old has great restaurant manners. My son at three years old was atrocious. Only a couple restaurants we could take him to comfortably for us.

For both of them - it was rarely worth it. We got a lot of takeout!


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess* 
The only one I might put up with would be the standing in a booth. Provided he wasn't leaning over and bothering the people eating in a booth behind us. When our son was younger, like 1.5, if DP and I were out with family or friends and it wasn't easy to just get up and leave, we took turns walking with DS outside. Not in the restaurant, where he could get in the way. But if it is ever just us and DS isn't in a mood to deal with "restaurant manners" we ask the server to pack our food to go and take it home.











Quote:


Originally Posted by *kkeris* 
If its a very quiet and spacious casual family restaurant and only 2-3 other tables were taken, you guys still would have a problem with your child quietly and slowly wandering around (presuming he is in your full view)?

Yep, I still would have a problem with it - I don't think it's ever OK for my kid to just wander around, or especially approach other diners or waitstaff. The diners are there to have a meal and enjoy the company they came to eat with, and the wait staff are doing their job (not to mention the potential food/beverage spillage hazards). Neither of them necessarily want to interact with my kid (though he IS quite a charmer







: ) - though they might politely oblige or even enjoy a conversation with my child, it would be out of obligation (you ARE kind of trapped at a restaurant table) instead of out of actual desire. I also don't want him to think that this is a usual 'routine' when we go out to eat, to be up and walking around. In our family, mealtimes are sitting times (for connecting with family), not for walking around. THEREFORE: When he was at the age where his attention span and ability to sit was short, we just didn't go out to eat. It was a drag sometimes, but it was just 8-10 months in the whole span of our lives together thus far.

Then again, I'm a BIG believer in 'my right to enjoy myself in public ends when I (or my kids) start disturbing yours', and I believe a toddler/preschooler engaging other patrons or waitstaff is disturbing, even though it might be a pleasant interaction. There are *plenty* of other places my kids can interact with the public.

I know there are those who believe that children won't know how to act in public unless you let them practice...and to a certain degree I agree and don't advocate never taking your child out - but I also believe that children grow and mature into being able to handle social interactions of different kinds, and some are better left to when they are individually mature enough to handle the expected social 'rules' for the venue (i.e., you don't normally see adults wandering around restaurants chatting up other patrons or the waitstaff) instead of briging them out when they're not ready and spending the whole time trying to corral them (that is NOT relaxing to me at all). I have NO problem with kids being developmentally appropriate, but I also think there's a time and place for everything.

I think I participated on that other thread, I'll have to see if it's the one I'm thinking of...


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Stands at the table is okay with me.

When my kid went through the wander phase, I would take her around. If the weather is nice, I would take her around outside.


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kkeris* 
If its a very quiet and spacious casual family restaurant and only 2-3 other tables were taken, you guys still would have a problem with your child quietly and slowly wandering around (presuming he is in your full view)?

Absolutely. You are endangering your child, worrying the waitstaff, and likely annoying other diners.

I would allow the standing in the booth. (I have my 2 year old trained out of it, the one year old just graduated from the high chair to sitting next to me so now I have to train her too, lol).

But walking around is completely beyond inappropriate. If you don't feel that you can keep your child from doing this, you need to not go into restaurants for a few years until your child is old enough to understand it isn't acceptable.


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

I agree with The4of Us 100%.

BTW..standing in a booth does not bug me.


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## angela&avery (May 30, 2002)

I really dont think its ok to let a child wander around a restuarant invading other people's space. I have taken my kids to the bathroom to get a walk in, or outside, I bring toys, books, coloring, snacks.... dinner for them if they are very small and a special treat to keep them busy while i finish my dinner. My 6 and 3 year old's have been going out to eat regularly every few months since they were born. While we have had some tough meals and left quickly, for the most part they enjoy eating out and that just comes with time.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Absolutely NO solo wandering. No way. I'd never allow it. I have let an adult walk around with dd a couple of times at very slow restaurants where they could go look AT something (a fish tank, a fountain, etc) But that's it.

-Angela


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

No wandering for any reason. When my daughter couldn't stay in her seat, we didn't eat out. And if we were out and she started wandering and couldn't stay in her seat, either my husband or I would take her outside and the other one would get our food packaged up and pay. Then we'd eat at home and she could wander as much as she wanted. But no wandering in restaurants.


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## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

None of the above!

My son sits with us at the table. When he was younger, he couldn't do that for long. We'd try to keep him distracted with toys, food, etc and once that stopped working, we'd take turns playing with him outside or in the car.

As he got older, he was of course able to sit with us for longer periods of time. Now, at 4 and a half, we can take him out often and he's wonderful about sitting with us and entertaining himself at the table.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

I would never permit my child to do any of those things.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Yeah, I let ds stand in the booth. Though now that I think of it, he doesn't actually do it. But, hypthetically, if he wanted to, I wouldn't think much of it, as long as he wasn't disturbing anyone behind him. I never think anything of other kids who stand on their booth and look at us (except I don't want them to do it for too long).
He's generally been very good for his age, as far as us being able to take him out to eat.

The rest, nope. When ds was younger, I would occasionally take him for a few trips from our seat to the bathroom, or some other easy to get to place (not too much in the way of any waitstaff). But never by himself.

Even though I'd trust him to touch things gently, walking around touching stuff wouldn't be ok.

And sitting at another person's table- that's just really really rude!!


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## HarperRose (Feb 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kkeris* 

Unless stated, lets presume that the above scenarios are about a 3 year old child. What will you 'permit'?

NONE of the above. We're there to eat dinner, not wander around a restaurant. I would take my kids outside to walk around if they were getting antsy and have had dh just text my cell or call (if I had it) when our food was served. If there is something to look at (fish tank or whatever) and the place is very slow we'll let them look. Whether they look with one of us or by themselves depends on how busy the place is and how close we are to the tank. We enjoy eating at a Chinese restaurant w/ 2 tanks and while the food is delicious and service is great, it's small and often very quiet when we go, so the kids are able to see the tanks by themselves. But they go to the tank and back to our table. They don't wander around.

As for standing in the booth, no way. They're too tall.







When they were toddlers and no longer sitting in high chairs, then we'd work around it and work on teaching them not to stand. (I don't need a kid tripping over their own feet and smacking their face on the table.)

My 7 yr old has ASC and he would _love_ to do some of the things mentioned (wander, look, touch for his sensory processing) but I can not and will not allow that (except at the Chinese place because of the atmosphere). What if a server had a tray laden w/ plates, didn't see the kid, tripped, and everyone ends up w/ broken dishes, hot food on them, cuts, etc? I don't think there would be a tip big enough to fix that scenario.

I didn't allow it when they were younger, I won't allow it now, and I won't allow the new baby to do it, either. It's a safety issue for me.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kkeris* 
If its a very quiet and spacious casual family restaurant and only 2-3 other tables were taken, you guys still would have a problem with your child quietly and slowly wandering around (presuming he is in your full view)?

I would have a problem with it if we were the only customers in the entire restaurant. It doesn't come up now that DS is 3 but if it did when he was younger, I would just get our food to go and eat it at home if he wasn't up to restaurant eating.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

I want to add that I don't believe for one minute that kids won't learn how to behave in public if you never take them out. I grew up in a very rural area, and we almost never went out to eat. And when we did it was pretty casual, like at the McDonald's that was 35 miles away. And yet, I have wonderful restaurant manners now.

I personally don't enjoy taking my kids out to dinner. They're almost always bored, I don't get to enjoy my food because I'm trying to manage spills and keep them entertained the whole time, they never have anything healthy for kids at family restaurants, and it's expensive. So I have no problem staying home and not subjecting other diners to my family at this point. I know that in a few years it will be a lot of fun, but restaurants and small children just don't mix.


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## Hannahsmummy (Oct 12, 2006)

I agree with the majority that none of the scenarios are acceptable. I don't even allow standing in a booth but then my daughter is 4 now. It wouldn't have been as much of an issue when she was 1-2 though.

We eat out at least 2x a week and my daughter has great restaurant manners and is very happy to sit and draw while waiting for food.


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## MtBikeLover (Jun 30, 2005)

The only thing I would allow is standing in the booth, but that was only when they were smaller (1.5-2). After that, they were too tall and would be bothering someone if they stood up.

I would never allow them to walk around a restaurant because of how dangerous that would be with servers carrying trays and not being able to see them. Plus, other people are out to enjoy their meal and may not want a child bothering them.


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## monkey's mom (Jul 25, 2003)

None of that would be cool with me. Except standing in the booth--that would probably be OK.

But kids wandering around without a shadow wouldn't happen for us. One of us would get up and follow the kid around or go outside.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

I would want to keep my kidlet safe, so I would worry about steaming drinks and hot plates and tripping waiters. Most kids are into moving, and most restaurants are into not wanting moving kids underfoot. So I would say that picnics are where it's for very active children, unless you can find a really safe and welcoming resturant-- which do exist. I know in Italy kids are all over th eplace, but the litagation issues there are nowhere near what US restaurants have to deal with. If a kids get a splash of espresso on him in Sicily, it's not quite the same as if it happens in CA. In CA, the big gun lawyers are called. We can never underestimate the problems of such a litigeous society, kwim? Applebees simply can't afford to have food fall on children.

As the mother of bigger kids, I would like to reassure people that there are many years for bigger kids to enjoy and appreciate cool restaurant and gourmet (which would not be at Applebees) food. It doesn't all have to happen when they are toddlers.


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## mommy2AandZ (Feb 12, 2007)

My 3yo will sit at the table with us, and I allow him to stand up in the booth, and climb under the table. I know how boring it must be to wait for food... so I empathize with that. I let him play with straws, and blow bubbles in the water cups. I don't let them wander, I think that would be a hazzard in a busy place.


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## MaWhit (Jan 5, 2002)

I don't let my kids do any of those listed in the OP. Our "restaurant rules" are simply:

1. Stay in your seat.

2. Use your inside voice.

3. Be polite.

We review them in advance, talk about examples, and I give gentle reminders when necessary. I also bring lots of quiet table entertainment and we talk a LOT while we are waiting. All of my kids are very entertained by conversation and my undivided attention.

My kids have great restaurant behavior considering that we only go out every couple months at most, so it's not like they get to practice a lot.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kkeris* 
I am just really curious after reading 4 pages of the going-out-to-eat thread, would like to hear more from GD mamas.









Is it okay if your child does this in a restaurant, if its not, what would you do if the child refuses to stop after lots of gentle coaxing:

- Walk/pace around in the restaurant, just wandering around looking at other diners and stuff but not touching anything. (presuming this is before the food comes or after your child has ate, and that you are seated at a table that enables you to see your child clearly from where you are seated)

- Wanders and starts chatting with waitressing staff and alot of other diners at their tables, asking questions and so on.

- Climbs up on a chair at another table with diners already sitting there, and peers interestedly at what they are eating/talkng about.

- Stands up on the booth seat that you guys are seated at and refuses to sit down (but not jumping either).

- Wanders around the restaurant looking for interesting stuff to hold/touch, resuming this is a typical curious 2 year old child.

- Wanders around the restaurant looking for interesting stuff to hold/touch, presuming this is a 3-4 year old child who knows not to handle glass/fragile objects without asking for permission first, and a cautious child who is good with gentle touches/handing.

Unless stated, lets presume that the above scenarios are about a 3 year old child. What will you 'permit'?

I'm curious which you would allow, and what you'd do if your child refused?


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

I don't allow my DS to do any of those things, even stand in a booth -- he knows that the rule is "on your bottom or on your knees." He's 2.75, and we've been taking him out to eat weekly since he was 3 weeks old -- we've never had a problem so far.

Part of it, I'm sure, is just his easy-going temperament, but also, since wandering was never an option for him or the kids of the friends we go out with, I don't think it's ever really crossed his mind as something to do during dinner.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mtiger* 
I'm curious which you would allow, and what you'd do if your child refused?

Oh! I can answer this one! If my toddler was in danger (walking around in crowds of people carrying hot plates etc) I woud find a more safe place for him to walk around.

I am a total foodie-- I love food-- I love all kinds of food prepared in all cool and new-- and old-- ways. Little kids can't always wait around for that coolness and that is not a bad thing at all. It's so natural for some small children to not want to sit and wait for adults to their time-consuming things.

Basically, I wouldn't bring my child to a place where she/he couldn't do his little kid movement thang. No shame, no getting into trouble, just 'lets find a better venue for your excellent energy'.







If I had a little kid foodie (and my oldest is a major foodie! and always has been) I would call ahead and get something to go. Where we live there are lots of funky indie restaurants who will pack your food for pick up.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mtiger* 
I'm curious which you would allow, and what you'd do if your child refused?

Not a problem with my 3 year old, but when he was younger if he wasn't up to sitting in a restaurant we simply understood that its hard for little ones to sit still, and we would ask the server to box up our order and bring it home to eat. Sometimes one of us would have to wait inside for the food and to pay the bill while one of us took DS outside to walk around.

Noting really "discipline' about it, just understanding that he had his limits. But it's been probably over a year since we have had to think about doing something like that. We eat out fairly often, and he really responds if I say to him, "butt down please" when standing in a booth. Or "Oooh that's a little loud for inside, can you try saying that quieter?"


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

If my kids get ants in their pants, we bring them outside (or if the restaurant has a separate foyer and it's icky outside) and let them work out the kinks


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## OldFashionedGirl (Mar 22, 2004)

So everyone who thinks it's okay for a child to stand on the booth: do you let him stand on the couch at home?

As a former waitress, I would NEVER allow my child to do any of the above, including standing on the booth. Furniture, including booths, are for sitting. Not standing. Ever.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OldFashionedGirl* 
So everyone who thinks it's okay for a child to stand on the booth: do you let him stand on the couch at home?

Um yes. Why not?


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

My daughter does stand on the sofa at home, and in some chairs. It's not a matter of "letting her" - she just does. And while I COULD make her sit EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. it's just not a battle I'm willing to fight. If she starts getting crazy, I find somewhere else for her to play.

I would let her stand in a booth, assuming she's just standing, not dancing, singing, and leaning over bothering other people. I can't see what it would hurt. And to me, it's safer than having her hanging out on the end in a high chair. I hate how high chairs in restaraunts always put the child RIGHT in the path of servers (like they don't have enough to worry about!).


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## OldFashionedGirl (Mar 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
Um yes. Why not?

Couches, chairs, booths, etc...are for sitting. Standing on them, particularly with your shoes on (which I assume your child is wearing in a restaurant) is hard on them, both structurally (b/c I've yet to see a child--myself included--just calmly stand on furniture; jumping/bouncing is always involved in my experience) and astheically (the fabric/leather/etc... can and does become ripped, stained, and cracked). My children will not stand on the furniture, and yes, I am willing to stop them Every. Single. Time.

I guess it's just a difference in opinion/parenting style.


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## Hannahsmummy (Oct 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OldFashionedGirl* 
So everyone who thinks it's okay for a child to stand on the booth: do you let him stand on the couch at home?

Yes. No jumping but standing is OK. As for the shoes on furniture thing, we don't wear shoes in the house and my daughter always takes of her shoes as soon as we sit in a restaurant.


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## angelcat (Feb 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kkeris* 
I am just really curious after reading 4 pages of the going-out-to-eat thread, would like to hear more from GD mamas.









Is it okay if your child does this in a restaurant, if its not, what would you do if the child refuses to stop after lots of gentle coaxing:

- Walk/pace around in the restaurant, just wandering around looking at other diners and stuff but not touching anything. (presuming this is before the food comes or after your child has ate, and that you are seated at a table that enables you to see your child clearly from where you are seated)

- Wanders and starts chatting with waitressing staff and alot of other diners at their tables, asking questions and so on.

- Climbs up on a chair at another table with diners already sitting there, and peers interestedly at what they are eating/talkng about.

- Stands up on the booth seat that you guys are seated at and refuses to sit down (but not jumping either).

- Wanders around the restaurant looking for interesting stuff to hold/touch, resuming this is a typical curious 2 year old child.

- Wanders around the restaurant looking for interesting stuff to hold/touch, presuming this is a 3-4 year old child who knows not to handle glass/fragile objects without asking for permission first, and a cautious child who is good with gentle touches/handing.

Unless stated, lets presume that the above scenarios are about a 3 year old child. What will you 'permit'?

Stand in a booth is the only one, and not when she's older. right now, she has trouble reaching her food if she sits, she's too big for most highchairs, and not all places have boosters. Oh, and I'm not sure why, but she doesn't kneel for more than a few seconds. I think it's just uncomfy for her.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The4OfUs* 
Yep, I still would have a problem with it - I don't think it's ever OK for my kid to just wander around, or especially approach other diners or waitstaff. The diners are there to have a meal and enjoy the company they came to eat with,


This. Not ok at any age. I once went for coffee with a good firend. I rarely get to see her. There was a young girl hanging out htere, (her grandma worked there) and this girl knew us, but not at all well. I didn't even know her name. She sat with us and pestered us almost the entire time. It was so rude. I don't want to go back there because of it. I barely got to visit with my friend at all. We tried to get her to leave, but she kept coming back.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OldFashionedGirl* 
So everyone who thinks it's okay for a child to stand on the booth: do you let him stand on the couch at home?

As a former waitress, I would NEVER allow my child to do any of the above, including standing on the booth. Furniture, including booths, are for sitting. Not standing. Ever.

Yeas, she can stand on my furniture at home. I don't' care.

As far as at a restaurant, If it looks like shoes will do any damage, I'll take them off. But her feet are going to touch anyhow. She's too big for most highchairs, not all places have boosters, and even if they do, her shoes will still touch the booth. If she sits down, she can't reach her food well at all, and her feet likely will still touch the booth. And if she would kneel, um her feet would still touch.

We only go to family restaurants, btw. So i"m not talkking about anywhere fancy!


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

None of it would be acceptable to me.


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OldFashionedGirl* 
So everyone who thinks it's okay for a child to stand on the booth: do you let him stand on the couch at home?

As a former waitress, I would NEVER allow my child to do any of the above, including standing on the booth. Furniture, including booths, are for sitting. Not standing. Ever.

You have a five month old


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OldFashionedGirl* 

I guess it's just a difference in opinion/parenting style.

Nope, I think it's just you have no idea what you're getting into


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
You have a five month old


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## ALkiMom (May 30, 2007)

100% ditto to ArtGoddess


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OldFashionedGirl* 
So everyone who thinks it's okay for a child to stand on the booth: do you let him stand on the couch at home?

As a former waitress, I would NEVER allow my child to do any of the above, including standing on the booth. Furniture, including booths, are for sitting. Not standing. Ever.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
Nope, I think it's just you have no idea what you're getting into

















: - normally I don't jump on the - "you can't say because you've not dealt with it yet - just wait and see" bandwagon, but I have to agree with the above - I suppose you could have an incredibly docile, compliant child, but most kids will stand on furniture of some kind, and in the grand scheme of 'pick your battles', this one is pretty low on the list.

I also learned about a year into the parenting game to never say never - I had pretty particular ideas and values when I went into parenting, and while a majority of it remains the same, much of it has changed dramatically when I came to understand early childhood development and age-appropriate (if not annoying) behaviors.

Just giving you a head's up that sometimes our best laid plans are messed with by very tiny little people!


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## Janelovesmax (Feb 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OldFashionedGirl* 
Couches, chairs, booths, etc...are for sitting. Standing on them, particularly with your shoes on (which I assume your child is wearing in a restaurant) is hard on them, both structurally (b/c I've yet to see a child--myself included--just calmly stand on furniture; jumping/bouncing is always involved in my experience) and astheically (the fabric/leather/etc... can and does become ripped, stained, and cracked). My children will not stand on the furniture, and yes, I am willing to stop them Every. Single. Time.

I guess it's just a difference in opinion/parenting style.

hmmm, good luck with that. I want to speak to you in the year.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Oh! I can answer this one! If my toddler was in danger (walking around in crowds of people carrying hot plates etc) I woud find a more safe place for him to walk around.

I am a total foodie-- I love food-- I love all kinds of food prepared in all cool and new-- and old-- ways. Little kids can't always wait around for that coolness and that is not a bad thing at all. It's so natural for some small children to not want to sit and wait for adults to their time-consuming things.

Basically, I wouldn't bring my child to a place where she/he couldn't do his little kid movement thang. No shame, no getting into trouble, just 'lets find a better venue for your excellent energy'. If I had a little kid foodie (and my oldest is a major foodie! and always has been) I would call ahead and get something to go. Where we live there are lots of funky indie restaurants who will pack your food for pick up.

__________________


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## LilyGrace (Jun 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OldFashionedGirl* 
Couches, chairs, booths, etc...are for sitting. Standing on them, particularly with your shoes on (which I assume your child is wearing in a restaurant) is hard on them, both structurally (b/c I've yet to see a child--myself included--just calmly stand on furniture; jumping/bouncing is always involved in my experience) and astheically (the fabric/leather/etc... can and does become ripped, stained, and cracked). My children will not stand on the furniture, and yes, I am willing to stop them Every. Single. Time.

I guess it's just a difference in opinion/parenting style.

I agree. We didn't go out to eat much until the boys could handle the rules and etiquette of a restaurant - and could handle sitting for more than 10 minutes at a time. And no, they were not allowed to stand on furniture at home. Since they are now 5 and 8 I can safely say that reinforcing these boundaries and respecting their stages of development worked for us.


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## elizawill (Feb 11, 2007)

*I am just really curious after reading 4 pages of the going-out-to-eat thread, would like to hear more from GD mamas.









Is it okay if your child does this in a restaurant, if its not, what would you do if the child refuses to stop after lots of gentle coaxing:

- Walk/pace around in the restaurant, just wandering around looking at other diners and stuff but not touching anything. (presuming this is before the food comes or after your child has ate, and that you are seated at a table that enables you to see your child clearly from where you are seated)*

no, i wouldn't let my kids do that. my children are ages 3 and 5 though. up until recently, we would dine out at restaurants that were very very kid friendly (i.e. chuck e cheese)
*
- Wanders and starts chatting with waitressing staff and alot of other diners at their tables, asking questions and so on.*

nope, i'd probably not go for that one either. when we eat in a booth, i ask my children to not turn around and stare at the people behind us either.

*- Climbs up on a chair at another table with diners already sitting there, and peers interestedly at what they are eating/talkng about.*

no. i go out to eat once a year with my husband (maybe if i'm lucky) and if i'm away from my kids for a date night, i don't want to eat with yours either....so i don't let my children do that ---
*
- Stands up on the booth seat that you guys are seated at and refuses to sit down (but not jumping either)*.

probably wouldn't bother me terribly...

*- Wanders around the restaurant looking for interesting stuff to hold/touch, resuming this is a typical curious 2 year old child.*

nope, i'd bring a bag full of goodies to touch and hold

*- Wanders around the restaurant looking for interesting stuff to hold/touch, presuming this is a 3-4 year old child who knows not to handle glass/fragile objects without asking for permission first, and a cautious child who is good with gentle touches/handing.*

nope, it wouldn't be okay

*Unless stated, lets presume that the above scenarios are about a 3 year old child. What will you 'permit'?*

my children did do all of these things. it just means they weren't ready to go out to eat at a restaurant....so we went to very child friendly places where they could explore and run around safely, and other paying customers could also enjoy there night out too. my kids are 5 and 3 now, and we can go out to eat, but i still choose somewhat child-friendly type restaurants and i bring a napsack filled with things to entertain them. if they want to wander, we go to the bathroom and explore or walk around in a safe zone supervised by me or my dh always. my children love to smile at people and have conversation, and if the opportunity is appropriate then they go at it. your scenario seemed like it wasn't the time and place imo.


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## OldFashionedGirl (Mar 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
You have a five month old









I don't understand why having a 5 mo. old makes me an idiot. Some things are unacceptable. I wasn't allowed to stand on the furniture, ever, and I just asked my mom--it wasn't a matter of stopping me Every. Single. Time. b/c I knew better. She took care of it the first time. And I know my brother and I were not docile children.

Tell me what you want, but my kids are not going to stand on furniture and having a 5 mo. old does not make me a moron. I will never understand why older mom's think is it appropriate to be condescending. Do you really think you're going to "win" anyone over that way?

Sorry, I've just had a lot of condescention on the board today.


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## elizawill (Feb 11, 2007)

aww mama, i'm sorry you felt offended. i think her comment was a little tongue in cheek. if your children respecting your furniture and not standing on it is very important to you, than you probably will follow through on that. i think the other poster was just pointing out that toddlers are a real challenge, and sometimes we have to choose are battles....so standing on the couch usually falls to the bottom of the list for most of us, yk? no harm done i hope


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
You have a five month old









I have an almost-3-year-old, so I guess I "get to" have an opinion on this subject. He doesn't stand up on restaurant seats. Or on the furniture at home, for that matter. It's for sitting.

OldFashionedGirl, if that's important to you, as it is to me, your kids won't do it, or you'll find other solutions until they're ready for restaurants. Having a 5-month-old doesn't mean that you can't have an opinion on this stuff.


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## bl987ue (Mar 14, 2006)

Put me on the "no to all the above" bench as well. We had a brief time when we didn't take the little one to restaurants, but mostly when he got antsy we would take turns taking him outside so he could burn off some energy. I didn't allow any standing in booths when he was little, just like I have a "no standing on furniture" rule at home. (Actually, it is more broad than that--it is a "no roughhousing/standing/jumping on the furniture rule")


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## MamaNosBest (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
Nope, I think it's just you have no idea what you're getting into









Well, I have seven kids ranging from pre-teens to babe in arms, and none of them have ever been allowed to stand on furniture. Ever.

Am I allowed to have an opinion?


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## OldFashionedGirl (Mar 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaNosBest* 
Well, I have seven kids ranging from pre-teens to babe in arms, and none of them have ever been allowed to stand on furniture. Ever.

Thank you. And since I want 10 kids, you have proved that it is clearly possible to have even a large family who doesn't stand on furniture. For onces, I'm NOT all alone!


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## alicia622 (May 8, 2005)

I don't mind when my monkey stands on the furniture (egads...he sometimes even jumps on the couch!) and I'd let him stand on the booth at a restaurant. I don't let him wander around the restaurant alone though and I'd stop him from peering over at the people in the booth next to us. He's almost 2 and on the short side. I imagine his days of standing in the booth are coming to an end.


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## PancakeGoddess (Oct 8, 2004)

I would let a kid wander if the restaurant only had 2-3 other diners. How many piled-high trays could they be carrying? But ftmp, I don't let my kids wander because of safety, as many have said.

Yes, they can stand on the couch.

OldFashionedGirl: In my experience, some children will easily comply with sit-down rules (you did, according to your mom), and others will not, unless a parent is willing to be harshly disciplining. A 1 and 2 year old child is often simply not able to control his impulses and they are not meant to sit for long stretches.

The laughing at you was not nice, but seriously - for those of us who have parented a toddler, or four, it's kind of difficult to not question the validity of how *sure* you are about your opinion.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I don't see any way of keeping a toddler from standing on furniture without some kind of physical punishment, and I think physical punishment is worse than standing on furniture, therefore I let my daughter stand on furniture. I don't see at all how standing on furniture is such a big deal anyway.


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## LilyGrace (Jun 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
I don't see any way of keeping a toddler from standing on furniture without some kind of physical punishment, and I think physical punishment is worse than standing on furniture, therefore I let my daughter stand on furniture. I don't see at all how standing on furniture is such a big deal anyway.

How about "Couches are for sitting" and removing the stander? Every single time? If you catch it often enough and quickly enough they don't stand on the couch.

I think it's disrespectful and try to treat my own home as I would someone else's. I would be mortified to take my child for a visit somewhere and have them display the thinking that standing on someone else's furniture is okay.


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## OldFashionedGirl (Mar 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PancakeGoddess* 

OldFashionedGirl: In my experience, some children will easily comply with sit-down rules (you did, according to your mom), and others will not, unless a parent is willing to be harshly disciplining. A 1 and 2 year old child is often simply not able to control his impulses and they are not meant to sit for long stretches.

The laughing at you was not nice, but seriously - for those of us who have parented a toddler, or four, it's kind of difficult to not question the validity of how *sure* you are about your opinion.

First of all, perhaps you're right, and a one or two year old is NOT intended to sit for long stretches. Then maybe you should consider getting a babysitter for them so EVERYONE can enjoy their meal. And I speak as a waitress, here. I've waited tables for over 10 years, so I assume that even if my opinions as a mom are invalid, that my opinion as a waitress must have some validity. It doesn't HAVE to be super busy for a server to trip over a kid running/walking around. Even if I there are only two other tables, someone is STILL waiting on those tables. What angers me the MOST about this is that 9 times out of 10, the parents who let their kids wander are the ones who get mad at the WAITRESS for not watching where she's going. How about watching your kid?

As for questioning the vailidty of my opinion as a parent...

Why, then, is it definately NOT okay for someone to say condesendingly to a pregnant woman planning a natural birth, "Oh, you'll change your mind and get an epidural"? Usually the person saying it has had at least one child. Why do we get mad at THAT person for being condescending and rude, but it's perfectly okay for people on here to judge a young mom because "what does she know"?

If my kids ever feel compelled to jump on furniture, I'll make sure to bring them to your house.


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## kittywitty (Jul 5, 2005)

None of the above.

My children know that I have rules that are in place no matter where we are. It would never be ok to wander around during meal times at our house, stand at the table, etc. You sit with us and eat. I also consider it dangerous and rude in a restaurant because of liability and the hot and sharp things that are around that aren't in my house.

Not to mention I find it very rude. I have had my hair pulled, food spit on me, etc. by children at other tables. I am spending $50 on a meal, I don't need to babysit someone else's kid and be used as a trash can, thanks. I hate people breathing down my neck behind me, so my kids are not allowed to stand and turn in a booth because it drives me nuts.

I have never used physical punishment to keep my kids in their seats. It's the rule. They respect that. Sometimes my youngest dd (2.5) stands up to eat at home because she's so darn short, but I just remind her that we sit on our butt, or knees if she needs to. But no standing. She has almost fallen backwards many times.

My kids are never allowed to stand or jump on any of our furniture. We used to have a jumping gym thing for indoors-when we had room-and that's ok. Or outside or with pillows (not mine!) layered on the floor. But never on the furniture. We don't have the money to replace it, and I don't like trips to the ER. My cousin was jumping on my bed when I was little, fell off (he was ~5), and severely hurt his eye. He had to have surgery and still has issues. Not cool, in my book. My kids won't die from not jumping on the furniture.


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## kittywitty (Jul 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OldFashionedGirl* 
First of all, perhaps you're right, and a one or two year old is NOT intended to sit for long stretches. Then maybe you should consider getting a babysitter for them so EVERYONE can enjoy their meal. And I speak as a waitress, here. I've waited tables for over 10 years, so I assume that even if my opinions as a mom are invalid, that my opinion as a waitress must have some validity. It doesn't HAVE to be super busy for a server to trip over a kid running/walking around. Even if I there are only two other tables, someone is STILL waiting on those tables. What angers me the MOST about this is that 9 times out of 10, the parents who let their kids wander are the ones who get mad at the WAITRESS for not watching where she's going. How about watching your kid?

As for questioning the vailidty of my opinion as a parent...

Why, then, is it definately NOT okay for someone to say condesendingly to a pregnant woman planning a natural birth, "Oh, you'll change your mind and get an epidural"? Usually the person saying it has had at least one child. Why do we get mad at THAT person for being condescending and rude, but it's perfectly okay for people on here to judge a young mom because "what does she know"?

If my kids ever feel compelled to jump on furniture, I'll make sure to bring them to your house.

I agree. But I have never come across a child, myself (everyone is different, though!) who doesn't listen when you redirect and are consistent. You don't need to hurt your child to get them to listen to you.

But my kids aren't allowed to jump on furniture no matter where we are, so I will refrain from taking them somewhere they can.









My kids are 6.5, 5.5, and 2.5 and my brothers had the same rules when they are younger. They are teens, now. So did I. And trust me, docile is NOT a word I would use for them. They try to be respectful of rules, because I explain to them why and they trust me.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MaWhit* 
I don't let my kids do any of those listed in the OP. Our "restaurant rules" are simply:

1. Stay in your seat.

2. Use your inside voice.

3. Be polite.

We review them in advance, talk about examples, and I give gentle reminders when necessary. I also bring lots of quiet table entertainment and we talk a LOT while we are waiting. All of my kids are very entertained by conversation and my undivided attention.

My kids have great restaurant behavior considering that we only go out every couple months at most, so it's not like they get to practice a lot.

That's what we do, too. I don't ignore my kids in the restaurant. I bring tons of crayons, books, paper, etc. They rarely get bored. If they get bored, it's because our food has taken forever, and you will probably find me in a worse mood than them.









We eat out a little more often because we visit family a lot. I am not afraid to take them to nice restaurants. My mother took me to nice restaurants when I was younger and I learned appropriate behaviour. My kids like good food, I'm not going to make them eat something like Burger King if there is a good "real" restaurant available. My kids love eating at Authentic Chinese and French restaurants.


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## OldFashionedGirl (Mar 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dnw826* 
That's what we do, too. I don't ignore my kids in the restaurant. I bring tons of crayons, books, paper, etc. They rarely get bored. If they get bored, it's because our food has taken forever, and you will probably find me in a worse mood than them.









Next time, you should ask the waitress if there's any way the kid's food can come out sooner. I know most places I've worked at, the kid's meals are smaller, so they can be ready long before the adult's meal. And I'm more than willing to bring out kid's food first if it keeps them from being cranky!


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OldFashionedGirl* 
Next time, you should ask the waitress if there's any way the kid's food can come out sooner. I know most places I've worked at, the kid's meals are smaller, so they can be ready long before the adult's meal. And I'm more than willing to bring out kid's food first if it keeps them from being cranky!









I can't stand it when a server does this. I never ask them to bring food early for my DS. But once in a while it will just show up. Then my son is done eating just when my food arrives. Such a pain in the butt to play entertainer between bites. My kid and I eat at the same time when we go out to eat.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PancakeGoddess* 
OldFashionedGirl: In my experience, some children will easily comply with sit-down rules (you did, according to your mom), and others will not, unless a parent is willing to be harshly disciplining. A 1 and 2 year old child is often simply not able to control his impulses and they are not meant to sit for long stretches.

The laughing at you was not nice, but seriously - for those of us who have parented a toddler, or four, it's kind of difficult to not question the validity of how *sure* you are about your opinion.









I'm sorry if my other post offended you, this was my line of thinking but I didn't say it so nicely.

My mom says I was a very compliant child by nature. She has NO idea how lucky she was. My children? Not so much (must get it from their boat rocker dad







)







:







- so my initial thoughts of what my parenting would look like based on my mom's stories of "disciplining" me (which basically consisted of gently telling me something once or twice and me doing it and not needing to be reminded again in subsequent similar situations) turned out to not be effective at ALL for my own kids, who are not so compliant by nature. I am still gentle with them, but have to remind and explain things a LOT, and for my own sanity I let a lot more things 'go' than my mom did, in part because they do challenge so much that I have to pick and choose what's worth enforcing and what's not. So - other people's homes and out in public, yeah - no standing on stuff. But stuff at home? Meh. No big deal. And DS has no problem understanding the difference (DD is too young yet). I suppose I *could* keep him from standing on ANYTHING at home, but in the grand scheme it's not worth the energy when there are other issues I need to tackle. And beleive me, I have pretty high standards of public conduct and am one of the "stricter" GD parents on this board. Sometiems honoring the impulse by making an exception at home is the best way to discourage a behavior elsewhere, at least it is with my own kiddo.

Annnnnnnyway, just wanted to suggest to you to keep an open mind and heart about reconsidering things and keeping 'pick your battles' in mind, depending on your child's individual temperament and impulse control, which may be nothing like your own was as a child.

Sorry I didn't say it nicely the first time. Is there a "sorry" smiley?


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## PancakeGoddess (Oct 8, 2004)

yes, me too, artgoddess.

oldfashioned, I really don't understand your comparison. It's rude to undermine a woman's attempt to plan a natural birth. It's also rude to tell experienced mothers that you know better, when you've never done it!


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## elizawill (Feb 11, 2007)

:


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

Oh, good grief. OFG, I've seen you throw out some real doozies, so I don't think you are in any position to be huffing about all offended.

I wasn't laughing at your assertion that you will not allow your children to stand on furniture (I don't allow mine to stand on restaurant booths either).

I was laughing at how you seemed to think it wasn't a big deal to thwart a willful toddler from doing the one thing that his little heart has always longed to do









It's not that easy. That's all I was laughing about. I was also remembering all my black-and-white pronouncments when my nearly three year old was a newborn. Ahhh...give it a few years, you'll learn, grasshopper


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## OldFashionedGirl (Mar 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PancakeGoddess* 
yes, me too, artgoddess.

oldfashioned, I really don't understand your comparison. It's rude to undermine a woman's attempt to plan a natural birth. It's also rude to tell experienced mothers that you know better, when you've never done it!

And it's not rude to attempt to undermine my desire to uphold what I consider to be basic standards of behavior?

As for the "doozies" (by which I assume you mean the many times when I've not been crunchy enough for most moms on this board) I've thrown out there, ThreeBeans, I'm not sure why that exempts me from feeling I have a valid opinion. I mean golly, keeping children from standing on furniture that is inteded for sitting...What an outrageous notion. It doesn't get more anti-AP than that:eyeroll:

The4ofus--you explained what you meant very well. I'm sorry for over-reacting. As long as you don't let your kids stand on MY couch, we're good


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## Mommy Piadosa (Jul 4, 2005)

not standing on furniture is something that comes with age- my 15 yo does not go jumping on sofas even though it was allowed as a toddler.

i have issue with the "chairs are for sitting" thing- around here chairs are for sitting, for tentposts, for stools, for tunnels, turned upside down for animal cages.... i like to foster creativity of function....


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OldFashionedGirl* 
A

As for the "doozies" (by which I assume you mean the many times when I've not been crunchy enough for most moms on this board) I've thrown out there, ThreeBeans, I'm not sure why that exempts me from feeling I have a valid opinion. I mean golly, keeping children from standing on furniture that is inteded for sitting...What an outrageous notion. It doesn't get more anti-AP than that:eyeroll:



You are clearly missing the salient point


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## OldFashionedGirl (Mar 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
You are clearly missing the salient point









Must be because I'm too young and inexperienced.


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## kittywitty (Jul 5, 2005)

I'm not even the one targeted, but a lot of people on here are being very rude and offensive to OldFashionedGirl. Seriously. Do we have to insult someone because they "haven't been a parent longer". Should that mean that those of us with 6 yo just shut up whenever anyone with an older child talks? Let's have some respect.


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OldFashionedGirl* 
Must be because I'm too young and inexperienced.

You don't get it. I wasn't laughing at your RULE. It's a perfectly sensible rule. I have the same one. I was laughing because you seemed so "ladeedah, no big deal" about it. It was CUTE.

I predict in a year or so you will be posting a banging-your-head-against-a-brick-wall smiley as you try to figure out how to get your child to do something (or get your child NOT to do something!!!) that right now you can't even imagine being an issue.

I was laughing because that was ME three years ago







Deep breath!


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## OldFashionedGirl (Mar 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
You don't get it. I wasn't laughing at your RULE. It's a perfectly sensible rule. I have the same one. I was laughing because you seemed so "ladeedah, no big deal" about it. It was CUTE.

I predict in a year or so you will be posting a banging-your-head-against-a-brick-wall smiley as you try to figure out how to get your child to do something (or get your child NOT to do something!!!) that right now you can't even imagine being an issue.

I was laughing because that was ME three years ago







Deep breath!

Okay.

I'm AM the moron in this case.









I DID take a big breath, and I AM calmer now.

Just a little embarrassed







: .

But my kids still won't stand on the furniture


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)




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## MelKnee (Dec 5, 2001)

I wouldn't allow my kids to do any of those things. And if they couldn't stop themselves, we would leave. At the very least, we would take a walk outside to work off some energy.

I saw a sig here once that read, "We aren't raising children, we are raising adults." My children's right to satisfy their curiosity and express themselves ends when it endangers servers or disturbs other patrons.


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## angelcat (Feb 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Madre Piadosa* 
not standing on furniture is something that comes with age- my 15 yo does not go jumping on sofas even though it was allowed as a toddler.

i have issue with the "chairs are for sitting" thing- around here chairs are for sitting, for tentposts, for stools, for tunnels, turned upside down for animal cages.... i like to foster creativity of function....


I llke the way you think. I had so much fun as a kid making forts from chairs & blankets. And lining them up for trains..lots of fun.

And I stand on my couch. It's the only way I can reach to clean my living room windows.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Madre Piadosa* 
i have issue with the "chairs are for sitting" thing- around here chairs are for sitting, for tentposts, for stools, for tunnels, turned upside down for animal cages.... i like to foster creativity of function....

You're right. During dinner, though, chairs are for sitting.


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## minkajane (Jun 5, 2005)

I've been known to let DS wander, BUT only when there's someone else with me to sit at the table so I can wander along behind him. I've gotten lots of smiles from people watching DS prance up and down the aisles singing along with the ambient music. Sometimes people will talk to him or he'll say hi to a kid and I have no problems with that. If he looks like he's going to bother someone, I take his shoulders and point him in a different direction and he usually finds something interesting to look at that way and we're good.


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## Janelovesmax (Feb 17, 2006)

I love the game where my son jumps from the couch into my arms and makes a flying noise. The idea that furniture shouldn't be jumped on didn't even cr oss my mind!!! I would rather see my son joyful and use furniture in the creative way, then go thru power struggles to keep him prim and proper.

Not surprisingly, my DS does not stand or jump on the couch at other people's home. I think instictively he know not to do it.


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## captain crunchy (Mar 29, 2005)

Quote:

I love the game where my son jumps from the couch into my arms and makes a flying noise. The idea that furniture shouldn't be jumped on didn't even cr oss my mind!!! I would rather see my son joyful and use furniture in the creative way, then go thru power struggles to keep him prim and proper.

Not surprisingly, my DS does not stand or jump on the couch at other people's home. I think instictively he know not to do it.
Love it!!

Same with dd -- I really don't care for blanket all or nothing rules.... well, but I am one of those consensual living folks --- I just stood on my couch the other day to hang curtains and also jumped on it the other day when there was this MONSTER, tarantula sized (but not a tarantula) spider that wandered in that my husband saved







... Also, we cosleep so there has been more um...bouncing on our couch at different times than a toddler could ever do









Also, funny thing, my daughter has never jumped on anyone else's couch in her life -- though she can here with wild abandon (and has never ruined any furniture) -- The same way she has never taken anyone else's cell phone though we let her play with ours... or messed with anyone else's remote controls though she plays with ours.... the same way she doesn't rummage through other people's cabinets though she has free reign to play in ours (with pots and pans and such) -- We just explain to her that other people have different comfort levels and so and so is not comfortable with her doing X or Y in their space. Yes, some redirection has been needed but basically she gets it totally...

For what it's worth, I fear some parents here are setting up adversarial relationships with their children from birth over things that really don't matter in the long run. It takes A LOT to ruin a couch by standing or jumping on it ... and is something so arbitrary where you want to draw your line in the sand.

Our daughter is only two and believe me I got the "you just wait" comments and I resented the hell out of them -- and yes, in many ways I have stuck to my ideals... deep seated core beliefs about respecting her and her autonomy and not vaccinating and things of that nature... but I will tell you there are LOTS of times the "you just waits" came to pass and I laughed my head off...

So it is time to pass the torch to some new mamas...

Think your toddler will calmly get off a couch at your request?
























"You just wait"


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

Quote:

I love the game where my son jumps from the couch into my arms and makes a flying noise.










My son no longer wants me to catch him. So he signs "back up" over and over. One day I was backing up until I got to the door. He signed, "back up" I said, "where do you want me to go?"
He signed, "outside!! "


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## Janelovesmax (Feb 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *captain crunchy* 
Love it!!

Also, funny thing, my daughter has never jumped on anyone else's couch in her life -- though she can here with wild abandon (and has never ruined any furniture) -- The same way she has never taken anyone else's cell phone though we let her play with ours... or messed with anyone else's remote controls though she plays with ours.... the same way she doesn't rummage through other people's cabinets though she has free reign to play in ours (with pots and pans and such) -- We just explain to her that other people have different comfort levels and so and so is not comfortable with her doing X or Y in their space. Yes, some redirection has been needed but basically she gets it totally...

For what it's worth, I fear some parents here are setting up adversarial relationships with their children from birth over things that really don't matter in the long run. It takes A LOT to ruin a couch by standing or jumping on it ... and is something so arbitrary where you want to draw your line in the sand.

Our daughter is only two and believe me I got the "you just wait" comments and I resented the hell out of them -- and yes, in many ways I have stuck to my ideals... deep seated core beliefs about respecting her and her autonomy and not vaccinating and things of that nature... but I will tell you there are LOTS of times the "you just waits" came to pass and I laughed my head off...

So it is time to pass the torch to some new mamas...

Think your toddler will calmly get off a couch at your request?
























"You just wait"










I agree with you Captain Crunchy. In my humble opinion, like you said: it takes a lot to ruin a couch, but it doesn't take much to lose a connection, trust and enjoinment with your child over things that really don't matter that much in the long run.

On another note, I have no idea how most moms toddlers here can sit thru dinner without getting up and taking a walk. I'm still working on that.


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## Janelovesmax (Feb 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hipumpkins* 









My son no longer wants me to catch him. So he signs "back up" over and over. One day I was backing up until I got to the door. He signed, "back up" I said, "where do you want me to go?"
He signed, "outside!! "


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## MamaNosBest (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PancakeGoddess* 
I would let a kid wander if the restaurant only had 2-3 other diners. How many piled-high trays could they be carrying? But ftmp, I don't let my kids wander because of safety, as many have said.

Yes, they can stand on the couch.

OldFashionedGirl: In my experience, some children will easily comply with sit-down rules (you did, according to your mom), and others will not, unless a parent is willing to be harshly disciplining. A 1 and 2 year old child is often simply not able to control his impulses and they are not meant to sit for long stretches.

The laughing at you was not nice, but seriously - for those of us who have parented a toddler, or four, it's kind of difficult to not question the validity of how *sure* you are about your opinion.

Again, 7 kids - no standing on furniture (and no, as you implied, draconian punishments, or heck, even mild ones were needed.) I find it odd that so many folks (not you personally, in general) seem to find it so difficult to get their kids to follow rules and assume that those that do are automatons or being beaten with waffle irons.


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## MamaNosBest (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LilyGrace* 
How about "Couches are for sitting" and removing the stander? Every single time? If you catch it often enough and quickly enough they don't stand on the couch.

I think it's disrespectful and try to treat my own home as I would someone else's. I would be mortified to take my child for a visit somewhere and have them display the thinking that standing on someone else's furniture is okay.

Yup. This happens ALL THE TIME with some friends of ours. They *sometimes*, mildly, say "oh preshus, Ms. Best doesn't allow standing on the furniture" or walking on the dining room table, or climbing the 3-story high banister above the catwalk, etc.). Other times they won't even say anything, and my husband and I have to. It's rude, rude, rude, but I don't blame the kids -- they do it at home, after all. Coincidentally,(?) their house is a sty


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## captain crunchy (Mar 29, 2005)

Quote:

Coincidentally,(?) their house is a sty
Do you honestly think one thing has to do with the other? Seriously?

Our home is clutter-free (for the most part) and while not always "white glove" ready, I could have a guest over on (almost!) any given day and feel proud of the state of our home...

Yet dd is free to jump on couches, sit on our coffee table, rock on our recliner, spin on our office chair like she is at space camp







and even draw on the walls! -- The drawing isn't *actually* on the walls, I took posterboard and (temporarily) affixed it to a portion of the wall that she can draw freely on --- everyone who comes into our home comments on the lack of clutter and my organization skills but JUST AS MUCH, comment on how happy and secure and lovely dd seems









I don't see where one has to do with the other.

I think that the difference between the folks who do or don't let their children stand on couches is the fact that the ones who don't, probably see the home as "their" home (the parents') while in our family, our daughter's home is our home AND JUST AS EQUALLY, our daughter's home, and while I redirect certain things, or provide her ways of honoring her impulse (paper on the wall instead of drawing directly on the wall), she is free to do in her home what she pleases.. including jumping on the couches.

We don't sweat the small stuff... we just don't value material objects that much... and the ones we do value, such as the laptop for example... we have taught dd to use respectfully... and "coincidentally", she does.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *captain crunchy* 
Do you honestly think one thing has to do with the other? Seriously?

Our home is clutter-free (for the most part) and while not always "white glove" ready, I could have a guest over on (almost!) any given day and feel proud of the state of our home...

Yet dd is free to jump on couches, sit on our coffee table, rock on our recliner, spin on our office chair like she is at space camp







and even draw on the walls! -- The drawing isn't *actually* on the walls, I got posterboard and (temporarily) affixed it to a portion of the wall that she can draw freely on --- everyone who comes into our home comments on the lack of clutter and my organization skills but JUST AS MUCH, comment on how happy and secure and lovely dd seems









I don't see where one has to do with the other.

I think that the difference between the folks who do or don't let their children stand on couches is the fact that the ones who don't, probably see the home as "their" home (the parents') while in our family, our daughter's home is our home AND JUST AS EQUALLY, our daughter's home, and while I redirect certain things, or provide her ways of honoring her impulse (paper on the wall instead of drawing directly on the wall), she is free to do in her home what she pleases.. including jumping on the couches.

We don't sweat the small stuff... we just don't value material objects that much... and the ones we do value, such as the laptop for example... we have taught dd to use respectfully... and "coincidentally", she does.

Same here. Our house is very tody and clean.

I love playing games with the kids that include climbing and standing on the furniture.

Not to mention, I have to stand on furniture to reach things.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *captain crunchy* 
Do you honestly think one thing has to do with the other? Seriously?

No more than you seem to think that people who don't allow their kids to jump on furniture are "are setting up adversarial relationships with their children from birth." Is that any less of an extreme, what-does-one-have-to-do-with-the-other comment?

We all have our own particular standards -- it's not such a big deal, IMO. Ours happens to be jumping on furniture, yours happens to be drawing on walls. As you said, you honor your DD impulse to draw on walls by hanging poster boards on the walls; I (and I'm sure many others) also honor my DS's jumping impulse in lots and lots of other ways.

I'm sure out there, somewhere, is a mom who does allow her DC to draw on the walls, and she might post here saying something like, "Walls are so easy to paint over -- we just get out the paint cans once a month and brush over the drawn-on area. I worry that those of you who don't allow your children to draw on the walls see your home as only the parents' home, and are setting up an adversarial relationship with your children."


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## kittywitty (Jul 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaNosBest* 
Again, 7 kids - no standing on furniture (and no, as you implied, draconian punishments, or heck, even mild ones were needed.) I find it odd that so many folks (not you personally, in general) seem to find it so difficult to get their kids to follow rules and assume that those that do are automatons or being beaten with waffle irons.









:

I have never had issues with it, and I don't abuse my kids. Seriously. Just because we have a no jumping on furniture rule does not mean my kids are going to hate me someday for repressing them. I never jumped on furniture (sat upside down, yes, I loved gymnastics, but that's different







), and I don't need counseling for it. I had much worse things to look back at than not being able to jump off the couch.


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## elizawill (Feb 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 

I'm sure out there, somewhere, is a mom who does allow her DC to draw on the walls, and she might post here saying something like, "Walls are so easy to paint over -- we just get out the paint cans once a month and brush over the drawn-on area. I worry that those of you who don't allow your children to draw on the walls see your home as only the parents' home, and are setting up an adversarial relationship with your children."









Ha ha, and then there is another mom who will then come on here and post, "How dare you cover up your child's artwork and her drawings by painting over them!!!! Have you no respect for your child!!!"

It just goes on and on and on.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Quote:

So everyone who thinks it's okay for a child to stand on the booth: do you let him stand on the couch at home?
DD is not allowed to stand on the booth in a restaurant, but she IS allowed to stand on the couch at home (as long as her shoes are off).

I don't let her stand on the booth because it's not conventional manners, probably not too safe, and might damage the booth and/or annoy the owners/waitresses. Also, once she's standing, she'll be jumping, and then...

At home..it's my house and my stuff, so she can stand and jump.

However, she is required to sit in her chair (no standing or getting up and down) at meals till she decides she's done, wherever she is. This is both for sanity and sanitary reasons.


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## snowbunny (May 25, 2005)

*- Walk/pace around in the restaurant, just wandering around looking at other diners and stuff but not touching anything. (presuming this is before the food comes or after your child has ate, and that you are seated at a table that enables you to see your child clearly from where you are seated)*
Yes.

*- Wanders and starts chatting with waitressing staff and alot of other diners at their tables, asking questions and so on.*
Hasn't really come up, yet. I'd watch for the reactions of the other diners and whether they were responsive to DS in which case I'd allow him to continue or if they weren't in which case I'd guide him elsewhere.

*- Climbs up on a chair at another table with diners already sitting there, and peers interestedly at what they are eating/talkng about.*
Nope. Unless, of course, we know them personally which does happen quite often around here.

*- Stands up on the booth seat that you guys are seated at and refuses to sit down (but not jumping either).*
I don't mind it. I won't, however, allow him to stand up in a chair.

*- Wanders around the restaurant looking for interesting stuff to hold/touch, resuming this is a typical curious 2 year old child.*
No.

All that said, I don't mind being permissive in restaurants especially considering that we only go to locally-owned restaurants where we know our servers, chefs and owners really well and we never go during peak times when waitstaff might trip over our child. The response from staff, owners and the like has been extremely positive and they often take extra care to show our son the kitchen, the bar and other areas of the restaurant. It's nice actually.


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## cycle (Nov 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaNosBest* 
Yup. This happens ALL THE TIME with some friends of ours. They *sometimes*, mildly, say "oh preshus, Ms. Best doesn't allow standing on the furniture" or walking on the dining room table, or climbing the 3-story high banister above the catwalk, etc.). Other times they won't even say anything, and my husband and I have to. It's rude, rude, rude, but I don't blame the kids -- they do it at home, after all. Coincidentally,(?) their house is a sty









If we could all be so perfect.....


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## edamommy (Apr 6, 2004)

- Walk/pace around in the restaurant, just wandering around looking at other diners and stuff but not touching anything. (presuming this is before the food comes or after your child has ate, and that you are seated at a table that enables you to see your child clearly from where you are seated)

**no. not okay to look at the other diners... we don't know if the other diners are ok w/ being looked at! Not okay.

- Wanders and starts chatting with waitressing staff and alot of other diners at their tables, asking questions and so on.

**no. also not okay.

- Climbs up on a chair at another table with diners already sitting there, and peers interestedly at what they are eating/talkng about.

**ummm no.

- Stands up on the booth seat that you guys are seated at and refuses to sit down (but not jumping either).

**that's fine.

- Wanders around the restaurant looking for interesting stuff to hold/touch, resuming this is a typical curious 2 year old child.

**not okay.

- Wanders around the restaurant looking for interesting stuff to hold/touch, presuming this is a 3-4 year old child who knows not to handle glass/fragile objects without asking for permission first, and a cautious child who is good with gentle touches/handing.

**no.

and I would try to redirect him to our table and our playthings. If this doesn't work we leave the place or take turns sitting outside w/ him. Then we'd wait another 3-6 months before taking him out to eat again. This is why we only ate out about 3 times before my son was 4!!


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## cycle (Nov 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *edamommy* 
- Walk/pace around in the restaurant, just wandering around looking at other diners and stuff but not touching anything. (presuming this is before the food comes or after your child has ate, and that you are seated at a table that enables you to see your child clearly from where you are seated)

***no. not okay to look at the other diners... we don't know if the other diners are ok w/ being looked at! Not okay.*

- Wanders and starts chatting with waitressing staff and alot of other diners at their tables, asking questions and so on.

**no. also not okay.

- Climbs up on a chair at another table with diners already sitting there, and peers interestedly at what they are eating/talkng about.

**ummm no.

- Stands up on the booth seat that you guys are seated at and refuses to sit down (but not jumping either).

**that's fine.

- Wanders around the restaurant looking for interesting stuff to hold/touch, resuming this is a typical curious 2 year old child.

**not okay.

- Wanders around the restaurant looking for interesting stuff to hold/touch, presuming this is a 3-4 year old child who knows not to handle glass/fragile objects without asking for permission first, and a cautious child who is good with gentle touches/handing.

**no.

and I would try to redirect him to our table and our playthings. If this doesn't work we leave the place or take turns sitting outside w/ him. Then we'd wait another 3-6 months before taking him out to eat again. This is why we only ate out about 3 times before my son was 4!!


Are you serious about this? I thought you were joking and then read the rest of your responses - please tell me that you allow your children to look at other diners.


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## edamommy (Apr 6, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cycle* 
Are you serious about this? I thought you were joking and then read the rest of your responses - please tell me that you allow your children to look at other diners.

\

no, I shield their eyes!







: hahahahah!!! ummm YAH, they can look at other diners. Just like you or I would look at other diners......but they (he, i have just one right now)cannot walk around looking at other people why they eat. It's not a county fair. Its a place for grown ups to go and eat... i mean if he's at chucky cheese sure, what around and gape... but not at a regular place. nor do i want anyone else's child walking around staring at us... or making my own dc want to get up and wander aroundtoo


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## cycle (Nov 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *edamommy* 
\

no, I shield their eyes!







: hahahahah!!! ummm YAH, they can look at other diners. Just like you or I would look at other diners......but they (he, i have just one right now)cannot walk around looking at other people why they eat. It's not a county fair. Its a place for grown ups to go and eat... i mean if he's at chucky cheese sure, what around and gape... but not at a regular place. nor do i want anyone else's child walking around staring at us... or making my own dc want to get up and wander aroundtoo

whew. ok, thats what I hoped. I agree with most of what you said, and I wouldn't let my ds stare or gawk at other diners either. Or wander around, or purposely make messes, I try to keep him sitting on his bottom, depending on where we are sitting and as long as we are in a booth I will sometimes let him stand up in the booth, as long as we are not already or still eating.

We have left restaurants a couple of times because he was crawling under the table or trying to run around. Lately though he has been fabulous when we go out to eat (not often).


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