# Embarking on a night-weaning journey! Some advice, please?? ;)



## echoecho1528 (Jul 29, 2008)

Hello all,
So after three nights of lots of crying (both dd and I), I have officially had it! So, before I have to check in to a loony bin, I've decided that my high-needs, very very sensitive dd needs to be night weaned.
Some reasons we haven't night-weaned our horrible sleeper yet are 1) she still hardly eats any solids during the day, and 2) I'm afraid it won't work for us







and 3) she is SUPER intense and simply nursing her at every waking has been easiest up until now.
So, what I would like to know from all of the ladies on here who have night weaned using their own method or Jay Gordon's is
1) Did you prep your LO for the night-weaning in any way?? If so, what did you do?
2) Was it successful? What exactly do you mean by successful







?
3) Did you continue to nurse to sleep for the first stretch or did you find that counter-productive or confusing for LO?

We were thinking of perhaps really hunkering down and getting a really consistent daytime and pre-bed routine down for a couple weeks before we start it? Any thoughts - or should we just dive in?? I'm obviously afraid of rocking my dd's boat... I am very nervous.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks


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## Picturesque (May 31, 2007)

How old is your LO? And how verbal? These things make a big difference in determining the best approach.


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## MLA (May 22, 2008)

Here's my "journal" from the first week of using Dr. Jay's method w/my then 10 month old. Basically, it led to 4 hour stretches and some 6 hour stretches. About 2 wks ago, I decided to move him into his crib in our room, and now he's basically sleeping through the night (down between 8:30 and 9:30 and up at 5:30a to nurse and come into bed w/me, where he sleeps until about 8a).

_*Night #1*
It went well. Much better than expected.

I planned to nurse Nico short between midnight and 6a (that means nurse him a bit but not let him fall asleep at the breast). Of course, Nicholas wakes at 12:02a. Ugh. I'd only gotten about 45 minutes sleep by then, so I decided I'd cheat and pretend it was 11:58p







. So I nurse him to sleep. He pops off and wakes up. I nurse him to sleep again, and again he pops off and wakes up. I figured that was him telling me to just get it started already. So I stopped cheating and decided to stop nursing and let him figure out how to fall asleep. He cried. Really, really cried. Hard. BUT the total episode lasted only 11 minutes -- and during those 11 minutes he twice settled down and started to fall asleep. So after 11 minutes he was back to sleep. Without me nursing him!

He woke every hour on the hour for the rest of the night. The second waking, it took only 6 minutes of crying. Subsequent wakings took 2 or 3 minutes before he was out -- and two of those wakings he only fussed a bit and didn't even come for the breast and fell back to sleep. He woke at 5:56a, and I decided that was close enough to 6a to let him get in a full nursing, which he did. He woke again at 7a and then at 8:30a.

*Night #2*
It went better --- not hugely better, but better.

He woke at 12:30a, and I nursed him for a minute (literally). I took him off, and he proceeded to scream at the top of his lungs for 30 seconds and then topple over and fall asleep. He was back to sleep by 12:32.

The rest of the night he only screamed like that one other time. Otherwise he mainly just fussed. He was up, again, about every hour, but about 3 of those wakings, he didn't even try to nurse; he just fussed and rolled around.

The one thing that sucked about last night is that when he woke up (besides for the first waking), he was up for longer than in the past and spent a good amount of time trying to crawl over me and then off the bed. It was a bit of a struggle. I'm hoping that will subside tonight.

All in all, I'd call this progress. The no crying and not even trying to nurse are definite improvements over yesterday.

*Night #3*
Again, better than the night before, but not hugely so.

He woke at 1a, no crying. I nursed for a minute or so and he went back to sleep. He was up again at 3a and 5a and then 6:45a. No major crying, and less moving around than the previous night. Unfortunately, at 6:45, J checked in on us after his shower and Nico saw him, which made him want Daddy. He did, indeed, cry when J walked out of the room. It took nearly 45 minutes to get him back to sleep, and he slept very fitfully until he was up for the day at 8:15a.

So improvements include not waking until 1a (it had been midnight and 12:30a the previous nights); longer stretches between wakings; no crying.

Tonight is the first night where there will be no nursing at all between midnight and 6a. I have a feeling it will be pretty rough.

*Night #4 (aka NO BOOBY!)*

Well, again, it went better than I'd expected. He fell asleep at 9p and woke up at 10:30p. I nursed him back down and he didn't wake again until 1:45a -- pretty sure that waking was due to a loud clap of thunder. He didn't even try to nurse at that point. He just fussed a bit and then rolled around and fell back to sleep. Up again at 2:30a. That time he did try to nurse, but I just rolled over so my back was facing him, and he settled back down and went back to sleep.

The rest of the night, though he never cried, he was quite restless and was up an awful lot. I'm not sure if that's because of the no nursing or because of the all night thunderstorm. It was pretty loud all night long. I'm hoping we're thunder free tonight so I can really tell what sort of progress we're making -- and hopefully get a bit more sleep myself. Last night was rough just because neither of us really settled into a good sleep after 1:45a.

*Night #5*
Things are going really well.

He went down at 9p. Was up at 10:30 or so, and I nursed him back to sleep. He woke at 1a, but got himself back to sleep on his own. Woke a few more times before 2a, but still managed to get himself back to sleep on his own. At 2a, he woke up and needed some help. I cuddled him for a minute or two, and he went back to sleep. He didn't wake up again until 5a. I just rubbed his back some, and he went back to sleep. He was up again at 6:05, so I nursed him. He was definitely hungry. He nursed off an on from 6a until 8:45 when he was up for the day.

So that's a total of 3 wakings before 6a that he needed my help getting back to sleep. Compared to the 8-10 we'd been having? Huge improvement! And a 3 hour stretch? Great! The most I'd been getting before was 2 hours, and that was only occasionally. I think that in a week or two, he'll be down to just the 6a waking.

*Night #6*
Pretty much the same as Night #5 with some small improvements.

In bed at 9p. Up at 10p -- I nursed him back to sleep, but he hardly nursed at all, really. Up at 12:45a, needing some help getting to sleep, so I cuddled him. Up again at 4:20a, needing a bit of help. Then up again at 5:20a. I could tell he was hungry (figured it was because he hardly at at his 10p feeding), so I nursed him, and he slept until 7:30. I nursed him again, and he woke up at 9:20a for the day.

Not too bad.

*One week down*
Well, last night was pretty good. He went down at 9p. Woke at 10p and 11p -- I nursed him both times. I think he woke because Joe and I were watching a movie downstairs (directly below where he sleeps), and it got a bit loud. He didn't wake again until 3a. That's 4 HOURS! Guys, I'd been getting 2 hours at the most from him. Anyway, at 3a, he had some trouble getting back to sleep. He kept rolling around. He didn't fall into a good sleep until about 3:40. Then he woke again at 5:20. Up again at 6:05 to nurse. Then he slept (nursing off and on) until 8a. So again, there were two real wakings between midnight and 6a -- neither of them involved any crying, and they didn't require much of me to get him back to sleep. And the big change is a longer stretch of sleep than before._


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## Shami (Oct 9, 2007)

I didn't do a lot of prep. We prepared a cup of milk in a sippy. I told her tonight nurses will go night night. If you need milk you can drink this other milk. She understand "other milk". While I was nursing her to sleep I explained it again. I said that when the sun comes up nurses will wake up and she can nurse. She is 22 months and very verbal. She cried the first night and I rocked her for an hour. The second night she didn't cry that much and I rocked her for ten minutes. Now if she wakes I rock her with no crying. This past week she slept a full seven hours on two different nights. I am shocked. She was nursing every two hours and continuously from about 6 to 8 am.

This is our second attempt I did this back in June and it was about the same success, but we got thrown off track and now this is our second try at it.

I wanted to add that this second time she got a fever and I dropped it in order to nurse her at night and be more aware of her condition. I just picked it back up when she was better.
I too was very nervous to try it. If it doesn't go well just drop it and try again next month. You'll know when your babe is ready.

Why all the sudden crying? If she is teething it is better to keep nursing her through it. I just reread...I probably would not attempt it if she doesn't eat solids yet. Sorry you are suffering, mama. How old is she? Do you cosleep? Did something change in her life to unsettle her at night?


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## echoecho1528 (Jul 29, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Picturesque* 
How old is your LO? And how verbal? These things make a big difference in determining the best approach.

Oops! I forgot that the signatures were erased. Echo is 18 months and EXTREMELY verbal.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MLA* 
Here's my "journal" from the first week of using Dr. Jay's method w/my then 10 month old. Basically, it led to 4 hour stretches and some 6 hour stretches. About 2 wks ago, I decided to move him into his crib in our room, and now he's basically sleeping through the night (down between 8:30 and 9:30 and up at 5:30a to nurse and come into bed w/me, where he sleeps until about 8a).

How old is your LO?? Also, Echo already sleeps on her own mattress on the floor in our room, so that didn't really improve anything.

Thanks for the responses ladies! Keep them coming!


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## echoecho1528 (Jul 29, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shami* 
I didn't do a lot of prep. We prepared a cup of milk in a sippy. I told her tonight nurses will go night night. If you need milk you can drink this other milk. She understand "other milk". While I was nursing her to sleep I explained it again. I said that when the sun comes up nurses will wake up and she can nurse. She is 22 months and very verbal. She cried the first night and I rocked her for an hour. The second night she didn't cry that much and I rocked her for ten minutes. Now if she wakes I rock her with no crying. This past week she slept a full seven hours on two different nights. I am shocked. She was nursing every two hours and continuously from about 6 to 8 am.

This is our second attempt I did this back in June and it was about the same success, but we got thrown off track and now this is our second try at it.

I wanted to add that this second time she got a fever and I dropped it in order to nurse her at night and be more aware of her condition. I just picked it back up when she was better.
I too was very nervous to try it. If it doesn't go well just drop it and try again next month. You'll know when your babe is ready.

Why all the sudden crying? If she is teething it is better to keep nursing her through it. I just reread...I probably would not attempt it if she doesn't eat solids yet. Sorry you are suffering, mama. How old is she? Do you cosleep? Did something change in her life to unsettle her at night?

Thank you for sharing your experience. How is you LO's temperament? Easy going or more high needs? Sounds like the process went pretty smoothly! I definitely want to continue to attend to her needs by nursing if she is teething or fevering etc, but DH is ready to cold turkey her... yikes!
She isn't crying all of a sudden either. She has always been a really bad sleeper - usually 2-3 hour stretch at the beginning and then every 1-2 hrs for the rest of the night/morning pretty much since she was born. No change whatsoever! Since she hasn't started eating much yet, I'm thinking that maybe she is just not hungry because she nurses so much at night and by night weaning, she will eat more?? Is that unreasonable? I'm kind of at a loss as to how to get her to eat more as I thought she would have naturally began to eat much more by this age. Thanks for your input!


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## Shami (Oct 9, 2007)

We tried to put our dd on her own mattress in our room, but I still ended up sleeping with her on a little twin bed. Not fun.
Since she is so into being a big girl, we turned our guest room into her big girl room with her big girl bed. She wants to do everything that we do and be so independent. She loved it. She loves that it is her bed in her room.

However, I can't sleep and I keep waking every hour to make sure the monitor is working and she is breathing. I really don't want her to be in her room, but it seems that this is the time that she is ready. So, I am night weaning and transitioning her into her own room at the same time.

I nurse her down and she usually wakes in the middle of the night. Rock her back to sleep and nurse her when she wakes in the morning sometime around six. She'll sleep til about eight. I don't bring her into our bed. I always take her back to her big girl bed. I never expected her to go for this. We have always coslept and nursed throughout the night sometime all.night.long! My baby is growing up!

Another thought...you could give her a multi vitamin to supplement.


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## wetcement101 (Dec 2, 2007)

I started Dr Gordon's plan when DD was 15 months but gave up after 6 days because she cried for 3 hours a night. In my ear. When I asked me very AP ped for suggestions during a check up, he said he felt the Gordon plan was confusing and to not to nurse after sundown/before sunrise, as I could do this consistently and DD could understand it.
DD has an easy going temperament with others, but is very mama-centric and could nurse all night. Night weaning was exhausting, but I am so much happier and well rested now I have so much more to give DD, and DH, and myself. And it didn't impact daytime nursing or seem to stress her during the day time.


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## Shami (Oct 9, 2007)

Mine was like yours. She had periods in her little life where she was nursing every hour. Other times every two hours. Rarely could I get three hours out of her. And she always woke about and hour after I put her down.

I coslept with her because I couldn't get any sleep. Started around 2 months old. I quickly learned how to nurse laying down for my own sanity. I could never just lay her down sleeping and she would sleep...nope. I had to nurse/rock her to sleep. I always fed on demand. I understand your dh. I weaned because my dh was asking for his wife back at night. It's understandable.

Anyway I was so shocked that she was okay. I mean a little crying in arms the first night and then less and less. Then she started sleeping for four hours. Like I said she just slept seven hours straight last night. Wow.

I have eased up on the time that she can nurse in the morning. I am not so strict. Gordon says to stick with a certain time and I had trouble with sticking to it. So, even though I told her that when the sun comes up you can nurse...I fudge a little. But it still works.

So if she sleeps a good six hours and wakes a 5 am I will nurse her even if the sun isn't up. But say she sleeps 3 hours, I don't nurse her yet.

About the nutrition thing. Maybe she is eating enough for her size. I remember thinking that my dd wasn't eating much, but actually if you think about it. Their stomach is only the size of their fist. A few bites of chicken rice and brocoli adds up, but doesn't look like much to me. Ya know what I mean? I give dd Emergen-c multi for kids. Strawberry powder you mix with water and they drink it. She loves it. Do you nurse before she eats? You could try and up your nursing during the day. Maybe offer nursing to her more during the day so she is still getting a lot of nutrition.


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## MLA (May 22, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *echoecho1528* 
How old is your LO?? Also, Echo already sleeps on her own mattress on the floor in our room, so that didn't really improve anything.

Thanks for the responses ladies! Keep them coming!

He was 10 months old when we nightweaned and is 11.5 months old now

ETA: Also, we started off doing midnight to 6a not nursing. But we ended up doing 10p to 4a not nursing, as he'd fall asleep at 10 and not wake up until past midnight. By 4a he was actually hungry. Now he goe from 8:30 until at least 4a w/no nursing every night -- and most nights now he goes until 5:30a w/no nursing.


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## victoriaaustin (Apr 22, 2007)

We cut down gradually. It's not for everyone, but I liked timing our sessions and then cutting back every few nights. So we did 10 min a side for three nights, then 8, 6, 4, 3, 2, 1. By the time we got down to 1, DD was sleeping through on her own most of the time. Obviously, this took weeks. The big advantage to me was that DD learned to drink/eat more during the day gradually, and she started sleeping through on her own. We did an early morning (5 am) session for a while.

Hope that helps, and good luck!

ETA: There was no pattern to her wakings, so I nursed the same amount of time whether she woke up once or 3x. This is part of the reason we nightweaned--I couldn't deal with the lack of pattern/regular sleep any more.


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## echoecho1528 (Jul 29, 2008)

We just had another horrific night and I'm not happy. The main reason I want to night wean is that nursing is starting to really irk me. I feel bad about it... really bad. All she wants is comfort, and I get all tensed up and sometimes yell at her in the middle of the night. Her latch changed or something. I'm not sure what did it, but it kind of tickles and feels creepy-crawly, I don't really know what is going on. All I know is that my tension is causing her a lot of confusion and sadness. I want it to stop. I wish I could be super-mom and just keep going on despite my problems with it, but I can't do it anymore. Not on this little sleep. We are waiting to start the NW until we get back from a short out of town trip next week, so I have at least one more week of torture for both of us... oh. please let this end soon!


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## ihathi (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *echoecho1528* 
We just had another horrific night and I'm not happy. The main reason I want to night wean is that nursing is starting to really irk me. I feel bad about it... really bad. All she wants is comfort, and I get all tensed up and sometimes yell at her in the middle of the night. Her latch changed or something. I'm not sure what did it, but it kind of tickles and feels creepy-crawly, I don't really know what is going on. All I know is that my tension is causing her a lot of confusion and sadness. I want it to stop. I wish I could be super-mom and just keep going on despite my problems with it, but I can't do it anymore. Not on this little sleep. We are waiting to start the NW until we get back from a short out of town trip next week, so I have at least one more week of torture for both of us... oh. please let this end soon!





































Oh, mama...







I really feel for you in this situation! I night-weaned DS1 at about 19 mo b/c I was really going crazy... Like you, I was getting to a point where I would want to cry or yell at the baby at various points throughout the night. Terrible stuff!

To night-wean DS1, we talked a little bit about the "nat-nats" going to bed at night. But, for the most part, you could say we dropped the night-nursing cold-turkey. I kept nursing DS1 to sleep at night (and first thing in the morning), but I actually moved out of our family bed for a while. When DS1 woke up, DH would pat him or rock him back to sleep.

It's crazy to remember how convinced we were that DS1 (a very high-needs baby/toddler) would resist this program all the way. Totally not true! He never cried more than 5 minutes in DH's arms and after two weeks w/ me out of the bed, he was sleeping at least 7 hours a night! It was an absolute miracle!

Now, DS2 is approaching 18 mo and, like his brother, he's actually getting more fitful and waking up more frequently at night as each month passes. This time, I'm not going to wait--as soon as I feel like our nursing relationship is suffering b/c of the frequent night-wakings, I'll head into DS1's bed and let DH take over. I look at night-weaning as a way to preserve the overall nursing relationship. After night-weaning, I nursed DS1 until I got pregnant with DS2 and really hope to nurse DS2 until he decides he's done!

Good luck to you. And, again,


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## mckennasmomma (Sep 29, 2008)

subbing...i've been just about to write this same posting several times now. only diff is dd is only 1 year old. my additional q's are: how do you know when dc is ready? and it seems to me that the gordon method is harsh. i imagine my dd crying A LOT since anytime my dh tries to put her back to sleep without me she loses it. i like the idea of using sunset/sunup better than a time on the clock...more understandable to the LO. but with days getting shorter...i dunno. seems like a long time to go w/o nursing.

OP...please keep us posted of how it goes for you. best of luck, i totally understand your trepidation.


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## echoecho1528 (Jul 29, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mckennasmomma* 
subbing...i've been just about to write this same posting several times now. only diff is dd is only 1 year old. my additional q's are: how do you know when dc is ready? and it seems to me that the gordon method is harsh. i imagine my dd crying A LOT since anytime my dh tries to put her back to sleep without me she loses it. i like the idea of using sunset/sunup better than a time on the clock...more understandable to the LO. but with days getting shorter...i dunno. seems like a long time to go w/o nursing.

OP...please keep us posted of how it goes for you. best of luck, i totally understand your trepidation.

I'm afraid of her screaming non-stop at dh too. And he has a very low tolerance for crying... I know a lot of moms end up doing this on their own, but I know I wouldn't be able to. I was also thinking the same thing about the days getting shorter. I have heard of others using a special alarm or bell to signal when nursies go night night and when they go to bed... like a ceremony of sorts. Maybe that would work. I wish you the best of luck in your journey! I will keep you updated on mine.


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## echoecho1528 (Jul 29, 2008)

Can anyone tell me how long it took to see any results? I was talking with another mom today and she said it took a good 3 weeks to see any improvement at all... any others with better results? This is sounding scarier and scarier


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## Lizafava (Nov 28, 2004)

We nightweaned DS1 at 18 months and it went extremely well. He was a HORRIBLE sleeper and within a week or so was just a bad sleeper.

We went from several loooooong night wakings (most times including lots of screaming and nursing. No pop-on-fall back asleep or us EVER) to 2-3 much easier night wakings. DS didn't STTN until he was 3.5, but now that I have another baby I know that it really is all about personality.

DP did the bulk of the initial night weaning. I moved upstairs and just once I had to go down to help. Otherwise, he dealt with the crying for about 2 weeks until it really settled down. DS continued to part-time co-sleep for another year or so.

I would have gone crazy if we didn't nigh wean. It really improved my relationship with DS and DP. Looking back, I am amazed that any of us survived over a year and a half of tortuous sleep deprivation and screaming. Ug.


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## mommy2two babes (Feb 7, 2007)

I have night weaned 2 now the same way.
I still have nursed them to sleep initially until they outgrow it themselves.
DS still nurses to sleep. I told them that nibblers were going to sleep and wouldn't wake up until the sun came out and it was light.
With DD I slept in a turtle neck for a few nights









It was a rough few nights with thrown sippy cups, crying, and lots of reassuring that they could have them when the sun came up.
After the initial hurdle we did good.
I have found consistency is key, I wasn't as good with DS and it took alot longer.
Now although he will occasionally ask in the middle of the night he settles right down when I tell him in the morning.
FWIW I consider both of my kids pretty high needs.


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## adinanikki (Sep 9, 2009)

Your LO sounds exactly like mine! High needs, emotional, awake every hour all night long to nurse. Finally at 18 mo we night weaned as well (or maybe it was 16). Anyway, Very verbal is deffinately a help! I explained to her that she was getting to be a big girl and drank more of mama's milk so it would take longer for my milk to come back. A lot more explaining too but you get the idea. Consistency is key, and don't give in once you start! We had alot of talking, and some tears as well, but if she's a good communicator then you can deffinately start. It took us 2-3 weeks to see a TOTAL change in sleeping, and my daughter is doing great! 2 now and very self confident and outgoing (I never would have guessed 6 months ago)!


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## georgiegirl1974 (Sep 20, 2006)

Not to scare you or anything, but I was unsuccessful at nightweaning my high needs DD at 18 mo. I gave up after 10 days of screaming. It was miserable. I was finally successful a year later when she was 2.5 (I was in my first trimester.) It was still a miserable experience (screamed hysterically for an hour several times the first few days...kicking, hitting, etc.) It took a few weeks before she was able to fall asleep without tears. And it took MONTHS before she slept through the night regularly. Sorry I don't have anything more positive to say.


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## pollyanna123 (Dec 21, 2005)

Quote:

He was a HORRIBLE sleeper and within a week or so was just a bad sleeper.
This was my DD! I'm sorry, I know this isn't funny, but it kind of made me laugh.

OP- We take a slightly different approach but it has worked beautifully for us both times. (in my opinion, a whole lot of crying/screaming means that the LO isn't ready to be pushed that far yet)

Our process takes a long time and involves a little resistance, but hasn't been too bad at all. I'm going to say the short version... First, we work on getting the LO to go to sleep at bedtime without nursing all the way to sleep. There a bunch of different, gentler ways to do this. It was different with both of my babies based on personality. With my DS, more recently, I nursed him almost to sleep and then put him in the crib (in our room). When he stood up and cried, I picked him up and either nursed him to sleep or bounced him a little in my arms until he relaxed and got drowsy again, then put him back down. REPEAT as long as it takes until he went to sleep. It was a long process but didn't involve much crying. Dh and I could take turns putting him down, after the nursing of course

Once he was good at going to sleep in the crib, we started sending dh in to put him BACK to sleep at his first nightwaking. This was usually before we even went to bed. Sometimes dh would get him back to sleep in the crib, sometimes in the family bed, but the point is that it was without having to nurse back to sleep. After we were in bed, I nursed DS whenever he would wake up (in the family bed).

That went on for a couple of months. When he was 16 months, we decided to start nightweaning. I basically did Gordon's plan with the nursing only for a few minutes and then insisting that ds go back to sleep w/out it. Since he was already used to going TO sleep and sometimes back to sleep w/out nursing, it wasn't too bad. He wasn't thrilled. He fussed and rolled around like, "What the heck? Nurse me more!" but once he got the message that the "rules had changed" (per Dr. Gordon's article), he went back to sleep. Within a week, he started sleeping from 8pm-5am in his crib before coming into the family bed!!

With DD (now 3) Dh did her nightweaning while I moved out of the room. She was more accepting of comfort from dh. With DS, he was devastated to be removed completely from me, so I did his nightweaning.

DS started sleeping SO much better when nightweaned. DD didn't really, so it wasn't as beneficial. The benefit was that dh and I could take turns comforting her since it didn't always have to be nursing.


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## bellydance2290 (Dec 22, 2006)

I just wanted to add my experience which is overall pretty positive. We decided to do the Jay Gordon night wean and started this past Sunday. My dd is 15 months old. I explained it all to her before bed and told her milky would be going night night tonight. She usually sleeps ok the first part of the night (meaning for a couple hours). We did the regular bedtime routine which is bath at 6:30, play, nurse, daddy comes in and reads and she is asleep by about 7:45. At 10:30 I went in and woke her up and fed her. Around 12:30 she woke up and dh went in and was with her for about 4 hours - she wasn't crying but tossing/turning/asking for milk (signing)/whining. He stayed with her the entire time and she finally fell asleep. She woke up just before 6:00 and I went in and got her and took her to the guest room and nursed/slept with her until we woke up (which is what we used to do, only I usually went in much earlier).
Monday night she slept great - bed as usual, up at 10:30 to eat, up again briefly at 2:00 & dh got her right back to sleep, same thing at 4:00, woke up at 6:30 and we nursed/slept in guest room until wake up around 8:00.
Tuesday was a worse - up a few times before we went to bed, I fed her at 10:30 again, up at 1:30 - 4:30 with dh crying and tossing/turning, I went in at 4:30 and she cried when I wouldn't nurse but finally relaxed on me and fell asleep at 6:00. She woke up at 7:15 for the day and nursed.
Wednesday - I woke her at 10:30 for milk, then she slept until 7:15!!! She did stir a couple times and woke us and I think dh went in at 4:00 and she went right back down.
Thursday - she did not nap at all and had a very hard time going to sleep, she was up 3 times before we went to bed but I still went in at 10:30 and nursed. She then slept again until 4:30, dh went in and she went right back down and was up at 7:30 for the day.

I wouldn't consider my dd super high needs, but she is a major nurser. She still nurses to sleep at nap time and usually wakes after 30 mins and I have to nurse her again. Once we are secure with our night weaning, I am going to work on nap times. I think the most important thing is consistency and it also helps that my dh goes in if she waks before 6:00. If I went in I am pretty sure she'd get irate and want milk. I'm hoping that will change eventually though


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## Rosemarino (Jan 15, 2008)

Hi Echo, our DC are the same age, and we're trying this night weaning business as well. The main thing that has started to freak me out is that DS is starting to fall back to sleep with me rocking him, but he wants to TWIDDLE MY NIPPLES until he falls asleep and if I move my nipples away AT ALL he starts the crying again. Today I bought him a paci (not to suck on, he never used them) but to twiddle. It's one of those Binkies by playtex that's "shaped like a mother's nipple" (whatever.) and he's currently asleep twiddling that dumb paci, so I have hopes that it will play a part tonight.

I like the "sleeping in a turtleneck" approach. I wish I had me a turtleneck.
One of the things that is bugging me about this is that DH is complaining about being tired.







He should suffer in silence in my opinion, being as he is not helping with this (has to work) so I'm getting up sometimes on the hour to go into the room.

Anyway, I'll be checking in on this thread now that I know it is here. Don't give up, because you are right, you need it to stop and it is a good thing to follow your gut. Maybe you could have a more restful night if you slept next to her but didn't nurse? And also, it's okay to "break the program" in the interest of sleeping, which is what you want to do. Like if the screaming is just going on and on, you're the parent, and you can decide to just nurse her and try again next time. I ended up nursing DS this morning at 5:05 when he had woken up at 4:35. This was 30 minutes of crying and comforting, and me being awake and waking up DH. I was being a bit religious about my clock thing instead of being like "It's almost 5, I'll just nurse and we can sleep."
Good luck tonight.


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## Caterina (Jul 18, 2008)

I'm subbing this thread. My LO is only 11 months this week, so we're not night weaning yet, but we're starting to wonder if it will help reduce the number of wakings she's having, maybe we'll try at christmastime (she'll be 14 months). We can't go on like this much longer! I'm really interested to hear everyone's stories.


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## Rosemarino (Jan 15, 2008)

The past two nights have gone well--only 1 waking each, the first at 1:40 and the second night at 3:15. I tried a baby bottle with water in it (the nipple) and that worked the first night but not last night. I'm glad about that though as I don't really want to have to use props. Rocking is working. It takes about 10 minutes to go back to sleep and overall I am encouraged. He's waking up at around5:15 for a nursing and that is fine with me. How are you, Echo??


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## sarah1122 (Sep 5, 2008)

Just chiming in...

My ds is 11 months. He's never been a great sleeper at night (I'm lucky to get a 3 hour stretch of sleep). He sleeps in his own crib in our room. He's a very easy going and fairly independent little guy...during the day.

Lately I've noticed when he wakes up that he sucks for a minute and then falls right back to sleep...he konks out before my milk even lets down, so I know that he isn't hungry and he isn't actually drinking anything before he falls asleep in my arms. I know without a doubt that he can go for at least six-eight hours without any milk (he had a handful of miraculous nights where he slept from 8-5)...so seems like a good time to start nightweaning, right?

Last night we decided to start.

Bedtime was 8pm, he nursed (and actually drank milk) at 10pm and then woke up at 12:30am...at which point the real fun began. Dh was supposed to take the midnight-dawn shift, but gave up after about an hour...at which point I took over.

Trouble we're having is that while he'll sleep in our arms just fine, when we try to put him back in his crib without a tummy full of sleeping potion (aka momma's milk) he cries and stands up as soon as we put him down. The moment we pick him up he falls right back asleep against our shoulders before we even get to the rocking chair...and the moment we put him down he starts screaming again. Last night this little dance went on for about 3 hours until we finally caved and I nursed him back to sleep...at which point he went back into his crib just fine.

To his credit, he did then sleep for 3.5 hours...but I think it was probably due to exhaustion more than anything. He's usually up every 60-90 minutes.

I'm going to continue reading this thread with interest and keep at it. Suggestions on this pick up/put down situation would be welcome (we haven't read any books about how to do this), though I know that only time, diligence and a good sense of humor is going to remedy our nights.

Best of luck to you all!


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## sarah1122 (Sep 5, 2008)

don't know if anyone is still reading this thread but...

Last night was better.

DS nursed at 8pm (bedtime) and at 11:45.

He woke up at 1:45 and dh got him back down without much fussing within an hour.
Awoke again at 3:30 and dh got him back in his crib asleep by 4am.

Woke up for the day at 6:15!

Interested to hear how this is going for others.


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## Caterina (Jul 18, 2008)

I'm still reading. I don't have anything to add, since we're not there quite yet, but I'm really interested in hearing everyone's experiences.


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## VeganCupcake (Jun 13, 2007)

I'm reading, too, and interested in updates. I'm thinking about nightweaning my 12 month old DD, but I am terrified.


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## coltynsmom (Aug 20, 2008)

I have been reading and getting some pointers myself. My DS is almost 15 months old and i am at the point where I need to wean him at night for my sanity. He tosses and turns, does acrobatic flips and karate kicks all while nursing at night! I am 8 weeks preg w/ dc#2 and I am worried about getting ds#1 into his own bed (in our room) before baby comes. (I dont feel it would be safe to have both children in bed while baby is new) So there are a couple of reasons I would like to wean.

Our mattress is on the floor and I am thinking of bringing a separate mattress in for ds. should i try to put him in his own bed while trying to night wean or should i just do 1 move at a time?


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## lisavark (Oct 27, 2007)

:

Subbing.

I really want to nightwean my 18-month-old DD, but I'm scared to try it. She has NEVER gone to sleep or gone back to sleep without nursing. Once or twice in her life she fell asleep in the car or the stroller, but she hasn't even done that in ages. Once when I was gone at night (I went to see a midnight movie, thinking she would stay asleep since she had fallen asleep for the first time right before I left, at 11pm), she woke up 15 minutes after I left and screamed with DH for FOUR HOURS till I got home at 3 am. This was about a month ago, so she was 17 months old. So I'm really worried about him trying to get her back to sleep--he's never been able to. But I can't blame him, because I can't begin to imagine how I would get her to sleep without nursing. She has no idea how to sleep without nursing.

I'm working on trying to get her to fall asleep without nursing. I've been doing the No-Cry Sleep Solution technique of pulling the boob out before she's quite asleep for about six months and had no success with it whatsoever, but tonight I realized that maybe I wasn't actually doing it as much as I thought I was. Even though I repeatedly de-latch her, I think usually she actually falls asleep with the boob in her mouth. Anyway, tonight I think she was still awake when I convinced her to let go of me







, so maybe if I can keep doing that it will help. I'd like to night wean her gradually over the next few months...


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## Rosemarino (Jan 15, 2008)

I started this in earnest a week ago, and last night Pascal slept through the night. 7.5 hours in a row! Awoke at 5 and I comforted him back to sleep easily, no crying. I can't believe it! Of course, DH woke up at 4.30 to go pee and he probably disturbed Pascal into waking because I also woke up! But, a week ago (heck, 4 days ago) I would not have imagined this to have happened.







:
For me the keys are:
1. Care--being extra loving and letting DS nurse and be comforted lots in the day and especially at bedtime
2. Consistency--not wavering about if I would nurse or not--this was when it went badly in the beginning because I would give in and nurse. It wasn't until I stopped nursing him that he stopped waking.
3. Alternatives--I brought a pacifier and a bottle of water (baby bottle) to bed. He took the water, even in the midst of a fit, when I said "want water?"
4. Patience--Staying with him until he fell back to sleep all the way.


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## sarah1122 (Sep 5, 2008)

So far this isn't scary at all...be not afraid mamas!

There have been a few tears, but ds was always in our arms when he was crying, which I feel is totally OK.

Here's the scoop on last night:

Nursed to sleep at 8pm
Nursed to sleep at midnight
Woke up 3:30, dh got him back into his crib within 10 minutes
Woke up at 4:15 (I think he had a weird dream because he woke up crying), dh got him back into his crib within 20 minutes.
Woke up for the day at 6:15.

This was only the third night and I'm already getting a four hour stretch of sleep! Dh and I thought it was going to be a looong couple of weeks, but this has been cake compared to getting up every 90 minutes for the last 11 months.

The first night WAS rough and we were up most of the night. Ds accepted fairly quickly that he couldn't nurse, but we had a hard time getting him back into his crib (we'd been doing a lot of bedsharing in the last few months, so we're trying to wean ds off of that as well).

We're not following any specific plan. Here are our very flexible "rules":
• Ds nurses to sleep at bedtime.
• I nurse ds back to sleep the first time he wakes up at night.
• After that, when DS wakes up he gets rocked and snuggled back to sleep by dad. We're doing a pick up/put down style, so if ds cries when dh puts him back into the crib he gets picked back up and rocked some more until he settles down. Ds gets unlimited snuggling.
• The first time he wakes after dawn I get up to nurse him in the rocking chair and I put him back into his crib if he falls back to sleep.
• If one of us gets exhausted and frustrated during the night the other one takes over.
• If we both get exhausted and frustrated during the night all bets are off and we bring ds into bed so we can all get some sleep.

I should say that my husband has always been able to put our son to sleep without too much trouble, so this may not work for those of you whose partners have a hard time getting your babes down to sleep.

This has (so far) worked beautifully though for weaning our son off of both night-time nursing and bedsharing...I think because he still feels like he is getting as much cuddling as he needs when he wakes up.

Best of luck!


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## cristina47454 (Jun 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RosemaryS-F* 
Hi Echo, our DC are the same age, and we're trying this night weaning business as well. The main thing that has started to freak me out is that DS is starting to fall back to sleep with me rocking him, but he wants to TWIDDLE MY NIPPLES until he falls asleep and if I move my nipples away AT ALL he starts the crying again. Today I bought him a paci (not to suck on, he never used them) but to twiddle. It's one of those Binkies by playtex that's "shaped like a mother's nipple" (whatever.) and he's currently asleep twiddling that dumb paci, so I have hopes that it will play a part tonight.
.

That made me laugh out loud! My DD does the twiddle too. It really bugs me (and hurts sometimes). I have to make sure only one side is exposed at a time or else I get twiddled while she nurses!


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## echoecho1528 (Jul 29, 2008)

Oh my gosh, I had no idea anyone was still responding to this thread! Hi everyone







! Can a subscription expire???
Thank you so much for responding with your own stories. It is quite inspiring, but I am still shaking in my pants about the whole situation. The plan was to start this Friday night so that DH can help me, or I can sleep during the day on the weekend. Now, I am slowly back-peddling... is it that I am afraid of change?? I think it is that I am so freaking exhausted that I can barely fathom the strength it will take to battle the baby at night.
The changes I have been making in preparation for night weaning are: a more consistent daytime routine/schedule (based on advice from the book Sleepless in America), and (kind of inconsistently) not allowing her to fall asleep completely on the boob, and nursing her for shorter increments throughout the night then patting/rocking/rubbing her back to sleep. This has not been very successful







. She pretty much tosses and turns, then sits up, asks for nursies every 15 mins or so... this repeats over and over and over again over 3-4 hours until I give up. Then I am left completely incoherent for the next day.
So, some good and some bad and a lot of stress over the unknown. I like how some of you ladies have made rules to abide by.







I think I will borrow those ideas and get DH to help me make a plan.


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## Rosemarino (Jan 15, 2008)

Hi, again, glad you are back! We had a weird night last night. I fell asleep in DS bed for basically the whole night. No nursing though some wakeups. Come on buddy, STTN again!!!!!


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## Shami (Oct 9, 2007)

Don't be afraid!!! You may be pleasantly surprised that it isn't as bad as you imagined. I was shaking in my boots and wavering back and forth for a few months. I just could not imagine her accepting it based on the fact that she nursed so much at night. She's had very little crying. The hardest night was her crying for about an 20 minutes in my arms and it took her an hour to finally fall asleep. She didn't kick or throw any thing. I know it depends on your childs personality. It's very worth it.


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## VeganCupcake (Jun 13, 2007)

I haven't decided to start yet, but there was a sign of hope last night. I popped DD off before she was actually asleep again last night, and as expected, she went "WAAAAH!" But then she said, "Wah." And then a few seconds later, she said, "wah" and she rolled over and went to sleep! She is very intense, so this was a big surprise.


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## echoecho1528 (Jul 29, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VeganCupcake* 
I haven't decided to start yet, but there was a sign of hope last night. I popped DD off before she was actually asleep again last night, and as expected, she went "WAAAAH!" But then she said, "Wah." And then a few seconds later, she said, "wah" and she rolled over and went to sleep! She is very intense, so this was a big surprise.

This made me chuckle







And smile for your good fortune


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## echoecho1528 (Jul 29, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shami* 
Don't be afraid!!! You may be pleasantly surprised that it isn't as bad as you imagined. I was shaking in my boots and wavering back and forth for a few months. I just could not imagine her accepting it based on the fact that she nursed so much at night. She's had very little crying. The hardest night was her crying for about an 20 minutes in my arms and it took her an hour to finally fall asleep. She didn't kick or throw any thing. I know it depends on your childs personality. It's very worth it.

Thank you so much for the encouragement! I'm sure I will get there soon... It will probably take another horrific night to push me off the edge, but I'm sure it will happen...


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## JaguarEyes (Sep 18, 2009)

Hi there,

I'm new to this forum, but I love the Mothering magazines and was hoping to get involved in the online community.

My LO will be a year old in a couple of weeks. He has been breastfed on demand since birth, but in the last few months, I have been making sure that during the day at least, he waits at least 2-3 hours before getting milk again. He eats solids, but not a whole lot at each sitting. I do feed him solids at least three times a day though. No formula ever, and no cow's milk yet.

He's super active - took first steps at 9.5 months and really got it at 10.5 months. Now at 11.5 months, he's running.







He's not very verbal yet - just babbling.

We've been bed-sharing since he was born too, and I thought it was great, because it let me get more sleep. But he still wakes up every 1.5 to 3 hours, nurses, and goes right back to sleep. But it's been almost a year of that and I'm tired! Lately, I have been trying to get him to go back to sleep without nursing, but he won't do it - he just gets more and more worked up, but as soon as I give him the boob, he goes right to sleep. I am wondering if in order to night ween, we have to transition him out of the bed? What's better to do first? He falls asleep pretty easily, but usually nursing. If I try to nurse a bit earlier in the night and get him to sleep without nursing, it takes close to an hour each time!

I have been lucky to be able to stay home with him and work from home so far, and that has been awesome, but it also means that he is quite mommy-centric. If DH tries to put him back to sleep at night, he screams for me and then immediately quiets down and goes to sleep when I am there. Soon, I am going to start working again (hopefully from home if I can find another job like that), and really want to get more sleep, and also transition him to a better night time routine before anything else changes for him.

His crib has been unused. I really don't want to do the CIO method. But I am starting to feel like I am doing him a disservice because he isn't learning how to self-soothe and put himself back to sleep.

Does anyone have any advice?


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## VeganCupcake (Jun 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaguarEyes* 
Hi there,

I'm new to this forum, but I love the Mothering magazines and was hoping to get involved in the online community.

My LO will be a year old in a couple of weeks. He has been breastfed on demand since birth, but in the last few months, I have been making sure that during the day at least, he waits at least 2-3 hours before getting milk again. He eats solids, but not a whole lot at each sitting. I do feed him solids at least three times a day though. No formula ever, and no cow's milk yet.

He's super active - took first steps at 9.5 months and really got it at 10.5 months. Now at 11.5 months, he's running.







He's not very verbal yet - just babbling.

We've been bed-sharing since he was born too, and I thought it was great, because it let me get more sleep. But he still wakes up every 1.5 to 3 hours, nurses, and goes right back to sleep. But it's been almost a year of that and I'm tired! Lately, I have been trying to get him to go back to sleep without nursing, but he won't do it - he just gets more and more worked up, but as soon as I give him the boob, he goes right to sleep. I am wondering if in order to night ween, we have to transition him out of the bed? What's better to do first? He falls asleep pretty easily, but usually nursing. If I try to nurse a bit earlier in the night and get him to sleep without nursing, it takes close to an hour each time!

I have been lucky to be able to stay home with him and work from home so far, and that has been awesome, but it also means that he is quite mommy-centric. If DH tries to put him back to sleep at night, he screams for me and then immediately quiets down and goes to sleep when I am there. Soon, I am going to start working again (hopefully from home if I can find another job like that), and really want to get more sleep, and also transition him to a better night time routine before anything else changes for him.

His crib has been unused. I really don't want to do the CIO method. But I am starting to feel like I am doing him a disservice because he isn't learning how to self-soothe and put himself back to sleep.

Does anyone have any advice?

Welcome!

You don't have to stop cosleeping if you nightwean. In fact, Dr. Jay Gordon recommends continuing. Have you read his nightweaning plan?

Don't feel that he should be self-soothing just because of some arbitrary timeline or what other kids are doing. Self-soothing is hard and kind of overrated--I don't even do it very well and I've had a lot of years to practice.


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## JaguarEyes (Sep 18, 2009)

Thanks, VeganCupcake - I'll look into the Gordon approach. All I want is for him to wake up less at night - I'd love to keep co-sleeping!


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## echoecho1528 (Jul 29, 2008)

Okay, I took the plunge last night! I don't have a clear-cut plan yet, but I'm not going back!

I don't know if it was just the encouragement from you all or how annoyed I am getting with nighttime nursing, but I inadvertently began night weaning Echo last night. She went to sleep at 830, was up at 1030 to nurse, which is normal, but then was up again at 1130. So, I let her nurse for a couple minutes and then cut her off and offered ANYTHING & everything else. She hung on for 5 hrs and 15 mins until I nursed her again!! I have a very stubborn baby on my hands! She tossed and turned, cried out in short low-intensity cries, snuggled with me, got out of bed, and grabbed my face in her little hands and kissed me over and over. This last plea had me in tears, but I held out. I really hope that this will decrease soon and she will just realize that the rules have changed and she won't be getting nursed any time she wants to during the night. Today she seemed a little apprehensive of nursing... it made me a little sad, but I made sure to always tell her that she can nurse whenever she wants to during the day, but nursies go night night at night, just like she should.
I think I am going to go with a similar plan that a pp had - nurse at first wake-up and then start the clock and not nurse again for 5 hours. Oh, please, please, please, please give up soon and just GO TO SLEEP!!! Tonight I am keeping a bottle with water and a pacifier (she has never taken to either... ) by the bed tonight and will offer these along with all of my patience, cuddles, rocking, singing, etc.
I will probably update this daily to make myself liable for sticking to my plan. Wish us luck!!


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## echoecho1528 (Jul 29, 2008)

So last night was another night of Echo just not sleeping. It seems like she truly cannot sleep without nursing. She went from angry to sad to demanding to pleading to silent restlessness... then through the cycle over and over again for 4 hours last night. She finally fell asleep at 4 or so and only stayed asleep for an hour.
Is this even going to work??


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## paulamc (Jun 25, 2008)

DS will be a year in a week. I sort of doubt we are ready for night weaning. More likely I'll wait a few months. But I do think about it sometimes because he wakes a lot. A few months back I was thinking about implementing a plan where I would not nurse more than once every three hours. Never did it though, because he was teething for a while, and when that subsided he was sleeping a bit better than he had been before. Also, I've started going to bed before 9 (as early as 8 some nights) and this helps me be less tired during the day.

But I do have a question. Now that DS is mobile, he's much less interested in nursing during the day. When I offer, he'll say yes, but then once he's on my lap he immediately pulls away to get down and play. Some days he probably only nurses a couple times. He's always nursed a lot at night and that continues. I'm just wondering, if I do nightwean, whether or not he will start nursing more often during the day. If not, I fear I'll put myself on the path of full weaning, and I really don't want to do that at all. Does anyone have experience with this?

It might also be relevant that he's been a slow gainer. He's gaining about a pound a month now, but is still way below the chart (15 pounds 13 ounces at 1 week shy of a year). He does eat solids, about three times a day.


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## paulamc (Jun 25, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *echoecho1528* 
So last night was another night of Echo just not sleeping. It seems like she truly cannot sleep without nursing. She went from angry to sad to demanding to pleading to silent restlessness... then through the cycle over and over again for 4 hours last night. She finally fell asleep at 4 or so and only stayed asleep for an hour.
Is this even going to work??

That sounds really frustrating and sad, mama. I hope that you see a turnaround soon. I'm all questions myself at this point, so don't have a lot of answers or advice. Good luck!


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## Rosemarino (Jan 15, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *paulamc* 
That sounds really frustrating and sad, mama. I hope that you see a turnaround soon. I'm all questions myself at this point, so don't have a lot of answers or advice. Good luck!

It's ALWAYS hard at first. The first night is always the worst. This is the advise other mamas gave me and it holds true in our case. We're at 1 night waking and I think that is just normal.


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## mckennasmomma (Sep 29, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *echoecho1528* 
So last night was another night of Echo just not sleeping. It seems like she truly cannot sleep without nursing. She went from angry to sad to demanding to pleading to silent restlessness... then through the cycle over and over again for 4 hours last night. She finally fell asleep at 4 or so and only stayed asleep for an hour.
Is this even going to work??

I haven't nightweaned so I don't have any real answers for you. But I have read the Jay Gordon plan, and unless I am reading your description wrong it sounds like you are more or less going "cold turkey"...his plan has a few stages in it that might help you and your dd ease in to it a bit. If you haven't read it, it is worth checking out: http://www.drjaygordon.com/development/ap/sleep.asp


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## echoecho1528 (Jul 29, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mckennasmomma* 
I haven't nightweaned so I don't have any real answers for you. But I have read the Jay Gordon plan, and unless I am reading your description wrong it sounds like you are more or less going "cold turkey"...his plan has a few stages in it that might help you and your dd ease in to it a bit. If you haven't read it, it is worth checking out: http://www.drjaygordon.com/development/ap/sleep.asp

Hi mckennasmomma!
Yes, I have read the plan and that is actually what I have been trying to do...
He says:
_When your baby awakens at midnight or any other time after 11 p.m., hug him, nurse him for a short time but make sure he does not fall asleep on the breast and put him down awake. Rub and pat and cuddle a little until he falls asleep but don't put him back on the breast (or give him a bottle if that's what you've been doing). He must fall asleep with your comfort beside him, but not having to nurse to feel comforted enough to drift off.
*During these first three nights, repeat this pattern only after he has slept. He might sleep for fifteen minutes or he might sleep for four hours, but he has to go to sleep and reawaken to get cuddled and fed again*._

As stated in bold/underlined above, she is supposed to sleep at least a little bit to be given the breast again... for the last two nights she hasn't slept at all. That is where we get stuck - she just WON"T sleep, and I don't want to back down. I will maybe be a little bit more lenient with her tonight - as in nurse her if she at least lays down and doesn't ask to nurse for 15 mins??

I am SO at a loss with this







I am dreading going into bed with her in a few minutes. I will write again tomorrow, hopefully with a good update.

ETA: Oh, and I have been just nursing her after her first wake up, then going for 5 hours instead of his recommended 7 hours. 7 hours just seems so long. Has anyone had luck with a modification similar to mine, or am I setting myself up for getting her to only sleep in 5 hour intervals??


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## JaguarEyes (Sep 18, 2009)

I just read the Dr. Gordon approach and am so excited to try it!! Thank you so much - I so wanted an alternative to giving up co-sleeping and CIO and hopefully thanks to you ladies, I have found one! He's not quite 1 yet, so I'll wait til after his birthday in a couple of weeks, but I am so happy about this way of getting more sleep at night - YEAH!

And good luck, echoecho1528!


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## mckennasmomma (Sep 29, 2008)

I see, thanks for the clarification. That is tough is she is not going to sleep at all. If last night didn't go any better, I think I would consider stopping and trying again in a month or so. Otherwise I think you and she will end up in a wicked sleep-deprived cycle, and that just isn't worth it. I'm sure others have different opinions though, and really it is your call in the end.

As for the 5 hrs instead of the 7, I wouldn't worry about that at all. If you can get her to 5 hrs, I think the 7 will come in time.


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## Rosemarino (Jan 15, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mckennasmomma* 
I see, thanks for the clarification. That is tough is she is not going to sleep at all. If last night didn't go any better, I think I would consider stopping and trying again in a month or so. Otherwise I think you and she will end up in a wicked sleep-deprived cycle, and that just isn't worth it. I'm sure others have different opinions though, and really it is your call in the end.

As for the 5 hrs instead of the 7, I wouldn't worry about that at all. If you can get her to 5 hrs, I think the 7 will come in time.

Yeah, I tried to reply and say something similar yesterday but my reply didn't post. You are the parent and so you make the rules. Jay Gordon won't come find you! I would say that if SLEEP is the most important thing, then perhaps you should incrementally work on this, not keep her up for 5 hours of screaming in the middle of the night? Also, the Gordon approach doesn't work for everyone. It was WAY better for me to just not nurse at all than to start nursing and then stop. That drove DS nuts and lead to lots of screaming in the middle of the night, as opposed to not nursing and just holding, which led to just 10 minutes of crying then back to sleep.


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## echoecho1528 (Jul 29, 2008)

Never in a million years would I have thought my DD would just not sleep. I thought she would cry, scream, demand, maybe even throw up - whatever... I was prepared for that. But, to not fall asleep on her own at all?? WTH??
Last night, per mckennasmomma, I just nursed her briefly every time she woke up. She did sleep better and only had one episode of being awake for 2 hours. But, at least it was better. But, I feel like I am moving backwards. I can't put this off for another month or two, it has to be now. I can't do it anymore. But, I feel like after 4 nights, we aren't getting anywhere at all. Are we going to be one of those anomalies in which nightweaning does nothing?? Oh lord!


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## cwoodard (Jun 10, 2008)

Subbing since I have the same issue as the OP:

didn't see this thread so made another post about it here:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1140059


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## VeganCupcake (Jun 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *echoecho1528* 
Never in a million years would I have thought my DD would just not sleep. I thought she would cry, scream, demand, maybe even throw up - whatever... I was prepared for that. But, to not fall asleep on her own at all?? WTH??
Last night, per mckennasmomma, I just nursed her briefly every time she woke up. She did sleep better and only had one episode of being awake for 2 hours. But, at least it was better. But, I feel like I am moving backwards. I can't put this off for another month or two, it has to be now. I can't do it anymore. But, I feel like after 4 nights, we aren't getting anywhere at all. Are we going to be one of those anomalies in which nightweaning does nothing?? Oh lord!









See, I worry that my DD will be one of those babies who might be nightweaned, but still wake up a lot. And then I won't even have the nursing as a tool to help her get back to sleep. It is terrifying.

I think some kids just aren't ready when we wish they were. I wish I had better ideas--is there some way you could go into survival mode for a month and then try again? Reduce your commitments, nap whenever you can, etc.?


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## echoecho1528 (Jul 29, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VeganCupcake* 
See, I worry that my DD will be one of those babies who might be nightweaned, but still wake up a lot. And then I won't even have the nursing as a tool to help her get back to sleep. It is terrifying.

I think some kids just aren't ready when we wish they were. I wish I had better ideas--is there some way you could go into survival mode for a month and then try again? Reduce your commitments, nap whenever you can, etc.?

I think I am pretty much limited out as it is. I sleep every chance I get - whenever she naps, on weekends when my hubby is here, and even when we have people visiting that I know are good to watch her for a couple of hours. I am going to have to talk to DH about it. He is adamant that this gets "fixed" - funny how he isn't willing to help me do any of it, huh??


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## Rosemarino (Jan 15, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *echoecho1528* 
I am going to have to talk to DH about it. He is adamant that this gets "fixed" - funny how he isn't willing to help me do any of it, huh??

That's not funny at all! I am so sorry you're going through this--you are pregnant, right? How was last night? We started doing this two weeks ago, and DS sttn again last night (I'm not saying this to make comparisons, just to encourage you that more sleep will come of it eventually.)


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## clover (Nov 20, 2001)

I have been trying for well over a month to night wean. My lo can go from 10-4 w/o nursing but he still wakes up every 1-2 hours, and it takes even longer to get him back to sleep. So I wonder whats the point? Those who have successfully night weaned do your LO's sleep throuh the night now?


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## Rosemarino (Jan 15, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *clover* 
I have been trying for well over a month to night wean. My lo can go from 10-4 w/o nursing but he still wakes up every 1-2 hours, and it takes even longer to get him back to sleep. So I wonder whats the point? Those who have successfully night weaned do your LO's sleep throuh the night now?

We're on our third night of sleeping through the night now. I can hardly believe it. We got 18 mo DS his own twin bed in his own room, and then after a couple nights of my zombieness going in to nurse on the hour as he awoke, I decided to just not nurse from 12-5. I still nurse him to sleep. I let him nurse and nurse all he wants, but more and more I'm noticing that the nursing is keeping him awake! Anyway, i then decided that unless he's really unhappy about it, I won't nurse from after he falls asleep until 5. He's been waking up usually once before midnight, and I just go in and lie down with him, and he goes RIGHT back to sleep. There were 4 nights of tons of crying in the middle of the night but I tried to get right into him before he really woke all the way up, and would scoop him up and rock and say "it's alright" etc. It was hard and pathetic at times, when he would say "bye bye! bye bye!" to my boobs







Finally he got down to just needing to be held to sleep with no further crying and now he's just sleeping.
FWIW I also believe in a higher power and I asked for peace and help. That is what I believe really helps us.


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## clover (Nov 20, 2001)

Thanks Rosemary! That is really encouraging! Maybe I will just have to wait for him to grow out of his wakefuless. My first son was also a persistant night waker (it almost killed me) which is why it took me 8yrs to have another







Like I said he is basically night weaned and doesn't cry anymore if I don't nurse him, but he won't go back to sleep or if he does he wakes right back up. It doesn't seem to make a difference whether we are nursing at night or not he still wakes up all night long. I'm with you on the higher power and have asked for some insight. During the day my LO is happy as a lark and dang cute, That's what keeps me from putting him out on the porch in the middle of the night







(just kidding)


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## echoecho1528 (Jul 29, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *clover* 
I have been trying for well over a month to night wean. My lo can go from 10-4 w/o nursing but he still wakes up every 1-2 hours, and it takes even longer to get him back to sleep. So I wonder whats the point? Those who have successfully night weaned do your LO's sleep through the night now?

Hello Clover!
It seems as though there are a few of us in this world who do not benefit from night weaning. From what I have read here and heard from other moms IRL, it seems like if it is going to work and help the baby to STTN, then it certainly doesn't take over a month.








We have similar situations except my LO just stays awake. It is as if she is so dependent on the boob to sleep, she thinks it is absolutely necessary, so she doesn't even try unless I nurse her. Unfortunately, in our case, I think it might be necessary to wait until she is fully capable of understanding my reasoning with her.
If I were you, I would continue to try for another couple of weeks. If it doesn't work, hopefully he will still take the boob. Then you can try again in a couple of months.
Hope you have some success soon!

ETA: I just read in your siggy that your LO is only 11 months. Perhaps he just isn't ready. I know this would have NEVER been successful with my DD at that age.


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## clover (Nov 20, 2001)

Thanks Echo echo. I think you're right. I didn't nightwean my first son until after his 2nd b-day and he started sleeping through the night almost right away--but I was ssssooooooo exhausted by then, it was just down right unhealthy. So I thought maybe I would try earlier with this one. Oh well I'll just keep pluggin through and know that it won't last forever. I promised myself if I had another night waker I would keep that as my motto, but I must admit another year of no sleep seems daunting. I feel like I missed out on some of the joy of my first son's babyhood because I was so tired and edgy and was hoping to not go there this time







. So thankful for MDC and other mamas for sharing. I am wishing all the mamas here (and myself) sleepy babies and good rest!


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## Deefodil (May 25, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wetcement101* 
I started Dr Gordon's plan when DD was 15 months but gave up after 6 days because *she cried for 3 hours a night. In my ear*. When I asked me very AP ped for suggestions during a check up, he said he felt the Gordon plan was confusing and to not to nurse after sundown/before sunrise, as I could do this consistently and DD could understand it. *
DD has an easy going temperament with others, but is very mama-centric and could nurse all night*. Night weaning was exhausting, but I am so much happier and well rested now I have so much more to give DD, and DH, and myself. And it didn't impact daytime nursing or seem to stress her during the day time.


sounds like my ds is similar to your dd. and the screaming in my ear for 3 hrs thing is what i am afraid will happen with DS.


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## Babydoll1285 (Apr 4, 2009)

Ladies, if you're still browsing this thread - I need help! My dd is 11 mo old and nursing her at night is making me miserable. I've used Dr. Jay Gordon's method before and I really like it but I have two problems this time around: 1) DD shares a room with 2yo DS, who is a light sleeper. and 2) DD screams bloody murder if I don't nurse her until she is satisfied. Like crazy ridiculous, wake up the whole house tantrum. If she settles down enough for me to put her in bed, she starts the fit all over again the second I lay her down.

I'm really resenting nursing her at night and I don't feel like I'm a very good mama during the day...Im functioning on very little sleep since it takes me ages to fall asleep after nursing her. I usually fall asleep just before she wakes up to nurse again. I need to do something, soon. I'd love some help! TIA!


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## Rosemarino (Jan 15, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Babydoll1285* 
Ladies, if you're still browsing this thread - I need help! My dd is 11 mo old and nursing her at night is making me miserable. I've used Dr. Jay Gordon's method before and I really like it but I have two problems this time around: 1) DD shares a room with 2yo DS, who is a light sleeper. and 2) DD screams bloody murder if I don't nurse her until she is satisfied. Like crazy ridiculous, wake up the whole house tantrum. If she settles down enough for me to put her in bed, she starts the fit all over again the second I lay her down.

I'm really resenting nursing her at night and I don't feel like I'm a very good mama during the day...Im functioning on very little sleep since it takes me ages to fall asleep after nursing her. I usually fall asleep just before she wakes up to nurse again. I need to do something, soon. I'd love some help! TIA!

Do you have another room your DS could temporarily use? Maybe come into your room?


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## Rubber Ducky (Jul 16, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Babydoll1285* 
I've used Dr. Jay Gordon's method before and I really like it but I have two problems this time around: 1) DD shares a room with 2yo DS, who is a light sleeper. and 2) DD screams bloody murder if I don't nurse her until she is satisfied.

Hi! I think lots of people are probably still following this thread... sure is one hot topic! Have you thought about moving DS to his own room? Or you moving out with DD for the time being?

I don't have much other advice because my DS is only 11 months and I've also recently started nightweaning him. It all also started out because I was resenting it and was dying for longer stretches of sleep.

Hope it all goes well for you... and everyone else!


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## boatrat (Jul 21, 2008)

Hi everyone, I've been following this thread with great interest. My DS is 20 months old and on good nights sleeps until 3 am on his own mattress in our room. Then I nurse him in a chair, and bring him to bed with us. Then I nurse him in bed around 5 or 6 when he wakes up to try to get a little extra sleep.

On a bad night...I'll just give last night as an example. Up probably 5 times to nurse him in a chair (I don't nurse lying down in bed anymore until after 5 am and for the most part this has helped cut down on his nursing). He wants to nurse until he's done...if I try to wrap it up quickly he gets very angry and won't go back to sleep.

We've tried to nightwean 2 or 3 times before where I sleep in a different room and DH does the hard work. But it seems DS always gets sick in the middle of this after we've made some progress, and I just can't stand to hear a sick little boy cry so I cave and we start back over.

Anyway, he's got some sniffles right now but as soon as he's well we want to give it another go. I'm hoping it will go better this time since he *normally* (if there is such a thing) only wakes up 2 or 3 times a night, down from the 8-10 times per night the last time we tried a couple of months ago.

Hugs to all of you tired mammas. I'm right there with you.


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## Luke's mama (Sep 29, 2009)

Hi all,
my 16 mo. old seems to be waking up 5 times a night in the last few weeks, up from once or twice. He is teething on first year molars and his poor mouth looks swollen and painful, so I wonder if this will pass when the teeth come through? I don't understand why he slept through the night at 3-4 mos, and then stopped (1-2 nightwakings), and recently got worse. I wonder after reading all the posts if bedsharing and nightnursing really does make them sleep worse? Do you ever wonder what this situation looks like in families who wean by 1 yr or earlier? Just curious since such a small percentage of women are still breastfeeding past 1 yr (or even 6 mos!).


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## Babydoll1285 (Apr 4, 2009)

Thanks RosemaryS-F and Rubber Ducky for responding to my post! Nope, no other room for my ds to sleep in. (Ugh, I wish!!!) But I have been bringing dd into the living room for our quick nurse/quiet time the past two nights. That way she's not waking anyone aside from me! She's done really well with the Gordon method so far...of course the real test will be tomorrow when I don't nurse her at all.

I really like this thread! I decided I agreed with the 'no nursing when it's dark' and dds handling it well. I just have to remember this is kind of like potty training....it's really rough at first but worth it in the long run!


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## Rubber Ducky (Jul 16, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Babydoll1285* 
I decided I agreed with the 'no nursing when it's dark' and dds handling it well. I just have to remember this is kind of like potty training....it's really rough at first but worth it in the long run!

All the best to you then! Just wondering... are you going to not nurse at all for the whole night? The first night I tried to not nurse, I set a 5 hour goal. DH walked DS on and off for 2 hours. He would fall asleep and then wake up and cry again once he was put down. I quickly gave up and nursed him after that which was 4 hours. Then he slept for 6.5 hours!!! Either that or I was so exhausted I didn't have a clue









Night 2 he had a stuffy nose so everything went haywire BUT of the 8 or so times he woke up, 3 out of them he fell asleep with patting instead of the breast.

Night 3 he gave me 3 hours then woke up every hour, again I think because of his sniffles. I didn't really bother to do anything at this point.

Last night was a miracle! He slept 5 hours, 3 hours, 3 hours, 1 hour.







Not bad for such a frequent waker eh? Again I didn't do anything and just nursed him. I think at this stage I am more than happy with what I'm getting so I don't want to push him to far. I hope tonight will be just as good or better. I really want this to work!

Best of luck to you again!


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## Babydoll1285 (Apr 4, 2009)

Rubber Ducky - Sounds to me like you had a good night, especially if your little guy's not feeling well! I totally hear you on not wanting to mess with a good thing. That's why I haven't seriously tried to nightwean before, I just didn't want to rock the boat!

I am only nursing her at bedtime (7pm) and then again between 530 and 6. It seems to work well for her. In fact, she only woke once last night at 1130 when I was heading for bed so I just nursed a bit and cuddled and then! THEN! She slept for 6 hours!!!!!







I don't even know the last time I slept that long. It was amazing. Tonights the tough part with no nursing at all, just cuddling but I'm going to try to stay strong. My sanity is worth it!


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## Rosemarino (Jan 15, 2008)

Ugh, just when I thought DS was all about our new no nursing at night thing, he wakes up at 3 to nurse, and it was a two hour put back to sleep. Not tons of crying, just not tons of sleeping either. UGH!!!!


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## mckennasmomma (Sep 29, 2008)

Two steps forwards, one step back. At least he didn't wake up at 12, 1, 2 and 3!


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## echoecho1528 (Jul 29, 2008)

Hi all








We're on a downward spiral. DD has been sleeping for 2-3 hours at the beginning of the night and then waking every hour, on the hour for the rest of the night. I'm pretty sure she is teething pretty hard-core right now. So, I guess as soon as these suckers pop through, I will pull out the big guns (DH) and have him help me with NW. I'm thinking that by handing her off to him, she will get mad and cry (I HATE the fact that I WANT her to cry), hopefully making her tired enough to not stay up for 4-5 hours this time. I will make sure to verbally explain everything as best as I can... I'm pretty sure she understands most of what I tell her.
It is nice to hear that some of you are having some luck








Please, keep my tired old soul in your prayers!


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## mckennasmomma (Sep 29, 2008)

echoecho, I do hope it all works better when she is through this teething bout. But I have to say I worry that if she cries a ton (or stays up for 5 hours, either way) a horrible cycle will follow: too much cortisone in her system, leading to not being able to sleep well, leading to even worse sleep.

We are certainly NOT over our own waking-issues over here, but we are on a path that I am hopeful about. You may have seen the ad for My Naturally Well Baby in Mothering magazine, and I am lucky enough to live in the same town as the doctor. We went for an in-person consult, but she does phone consults too. One of the several things we are doing is giving DD a teeny amount of melatonin to help her get her circadian rhythm sorted out. We've been doing it for about a week now, and her first falling-asleep for the night has improved considerably (asleep with no problem 30 mins after taking the melatonin and about 5 or 10 minutes after beginning our nursing to sleep routine). Until last night I hadn't seen real improvements in her wakings, but last night she had a 5 hour stretch! Totally unheard of for this girl. I have no idea what tonight will bring, so this recommendation may be a bit premature, but before you attempt NW again I would suggest looking her up on the web (I don't think I can link here anymore, can I?) and giving the melatonin a try. The Dr. used melatonin with her own daughter, and she is a naturopath, so I feel very comfortable that this is a safe route to take.


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## echoecho1528 (Jul 29, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mckennasmomma* 
echoecho, I do hope it all works better when she is through this teething bout. But I have to say I worry that if she cries a ton (or stays up for 5 hours, either way) a horrible cycle will follow: too much cortisone in her system, leading to not being able to sleep well, leading to even worse sleep.

We are certainly NOT over our own waking-issues over here, but we are on a path that I am hopeful about. You may have seen the ad for My Naturally Well Baby in Mothering magazine, and I am lucky enough to live in the same town as the doctor. We went for an in-person consult, but she does phone consults too. One of the several things we are doing is giving DD a teeny amount of melatonin to help her get her circadian rhythm sorted out. We've been doing it for about a week now, and her first falling-asleep for the night has improved considerably (asleep with no problem 30 mins after taking the melatonin and about 5 or 10 minutes after beginning our nursing to sleep routine). Until last night I hadn't seen real improvements in her wakings, but last night she had a 5 hour stretch! Totally unheard of for this girl. I have no idea what tonight will bring, so this recommendation may be a bit premature, but before you attempt NW again I would suggest looking her up on the web (I don't think I can link here anymore, can I?) and giving the melatonin a try. The Dr. used melatonin with her own daughter, and she is a naturopath, so I feel very comfortable that this is a safe route to take.

Thanks mckennasmomma. I actually started giving DD melatonin before bedtime about a week ago as well. I saw it suggested somewhere on this forum. It definitely helps to get her to sleep easier and more quickly initially, but doesn't seem to do anything for the night wakings. On the third night of her being up for extended periods, I gave it to her in the middle of the night too and she fell asleep rather quickly. Unfortunately, she woke up again about an hour later. My daughter is made of steel...


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## mckennasmomma (Sep 29, 2008)

Hmm, that is very interesting that we are having similar experiences with the melatonin. Last night unfortunately was not like 2 nights ago for us. No long stretches of sleep but fortunately no long stretches of being awake either.


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## Deefodil (May 25, 2009)

I just took DS to his first dental appointment yesterday, and we got a good look inside of this mouth. Poor guy - one of his molars just popped through, and THREE more are swollen and ready to come through anytime now. That explains some of his cranky-pantedness. LOL.


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## Rosemarino (Jan 15, 2008)

DS had just one nightwaking last night...but I fell asleep in his bed and was too exhausted when I realized what I'd done to get out. Backache this morning...


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## summerbabe (Nov 12, 2006)

I had a couple nightweaning attempts until the third try was successful at age 2. Maybe he was more ready, but really, I think the difference was that I was finally resolved about it and dropped my guilt about it. I think my resolve helped him understand that this is just the way it was now, and dropping my anxiety about it was reassuring for him, and really it was not that much of a struggle. I had some advice on these forums about that, and then I read a passage in "Mothering Your Nursing Toddler" that really hit home. It was something to the effect of: "Your child is not in a position to reassure you that this decision is okay. YOU have to do that for the CHILD." I really internalized this, and honestly, I think that made the difference, when he did not feel my ambivalence anymore.


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## Rosemarino (Jan 15, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *summerbabe* 
I had a couple nightweaning attempts until the third try was successful at age 2. Maybe he was more ready, but really, I think the difference was that I was finally resolved about it and dropped my guilt about it. I think my resolve helped him understand that this is just the way it was now, and dropping my anxiety about it was reassuring for him, and really it was not that much of a struggle. I had some advice on these forums about that, and then I read a passage in "Mothering Your Nursing Toddler" that really hit home. It was something to the effect of: "Your child is not in a position to reassure you that this decision is okay. YOU have to do that for the CHILD." I really internalized this, and honestly, I think that made the difference, when he did not feel my ambivalence anymore.


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## Luvmy2grrs (Sep 24, 2009)

My 27 month old DD#2 is nursing/twiddling fiend, I just found Jay Gordon's website yesterday and have read Sears Nighttime Parenting & Pantley's no cry book about 25 times apiece. I finally bit the bullet last night and decided to go for it. I had a rough one, too. Up from 2ish to 4ish. And then I coudn't fall asleep until about 6.

However, I do feel that we had success because LO fell asleep on her crib mattress (on floor next to bed) for 3+ hours. It's so hard being a mom sometimes, but it's so great to have found this thread - I feel like the only toddler-nurser on the planet, sometimes.

Weaning DD#1 was a cake walk, in retrospect. I need more sleep, and I am starting to resent the multiple night wakings - so I am determined to make a plan and work the plan.

One thing about Gordon was that it seemed like a really fast/aggressive plan. I am modifying it to a more Pantley-esque version, I'm telling her num nums are night night (stopping nursing between 11p - 5am is my 1st goal). I plan to evaluate how it's going after 10 days, so I can see real progress.

All you ladies out there struggling with nightweaning - God Bless you all, and keep you and your families safe. "This too, shall pass".


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