# Ikea and clear cutting old growth forests



## SamuraiMom (Nov 7, 2006)

Has there already been a post on this. I was blissfully unaware until this months Mother Jones came in the mail, now I am just disappointed. I don't know why I just assumed that they were eco friendly.

http://www.motherjones.com/commentar...tors-note.html

This is just the editors note from this months issue. I am sure there is more info, but then there was the land slid in Indonesia this week and clear cutting seems to be the contributing factor. So, I guess I wont be shopping at Ikea anymore.


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## melissa17s (Aug 3, 2004)

This is really disturbing and disappointing. I am going to look more into this because we really like Ikea... according to their website, they do not do what the article claims http://www.ikea.com/ms/en_US/about_i...resources.html , but I also know that they could hire subcontractors that do it. I am going to look for more corroboration of the editorial.


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## delphiniumpansy (Mar 1, 2007)

from their website, this is their forests policy

Quote:

Forestry
IKEA does not accept timber, veneer, plywood or layer-glued wood from intact natural forests or from forests with a clearly defined high conservation value. Our long-term goal is to source all wood in the IKEA range from verified, well-managed forests that have been certified according to a forest management standard recognized by IKEA.
Wood is renewable, recyclable and biodegradable, so it's a good material from an environmental point of view, provided that it originates from well-managed forests.
But, you get what you pay for and Ikea is very cheap for a reason.


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## SleeplessMommy (Jul 16, 2005)

I don't think its fair to blame IKEA on this one. You have to go very high end, and find US made furniture, to get away from environmentally damaging forestry practices. And even there its hard to be sure.

*All of the following products are from Asian lumber sources:*
RC2 wooden trains and track(Thomas the tank engine)
Melissa and Doug toys (made in China or Vietman)
Most furniture "made in China"
Just about anything wood from the dollar store
Just about anything wood from Walmart, etc ... look underneath for "made in China"
Paper proudcts from China (combined new wood pulp and some recycled content)

I spoke with a forestry/environment ministry person in India - most wood things made in India these days (in factories) are using wood from Indonesia, Philippines, etc... places with lots of deforestation issues. Same wood sources are used by China to provide raw materials for China manufacturing.

A more environmentally friendly alternative (IMHO) is the use of Bamboo for floors, cutting boards, utensils etc.


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## delphiniumpansy (Mar 1, 2007)

To be honest, nearly all wood products are doing environmental damage, regardless of where they come from. If you have to cut down a tree, it is doing damage. Some do less than others, but it is still damage. Soy beans, cows, and corn do a lot of damage to trees, too, when you have to clear cut to make fields for them.

I don't buy stuff from Ikea anymore because it is just not well made. Bamboo can be a better alternative but it still involves shipping it from asia to usa and that involves a lot of energy. Bamboo products can also involve a lot of processing. For floors, marmoleum is a good alternative. For cutting boards, recondition an old wood one. For utensils, steel is great and lasts forever. For furniture, it is much more green to buy something old and renovate it or buy a few things of very good quality and live with less.


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## SamuraiMom (Nov 7, 2006)

Quote:

I don't think its fair to blame IKEA on this one. You have to go very high end, and find US made furniture, to get away from environmentally damaging forestry practices. And even there its hard to be sure.

Why would it be unfair to blame Ikea, they should be held responsible for the production of their products, even if they outsource to other companies to fetch their wood for them. I absolutely love Ikea, I love building my furniture and the fact that we're saving money because of that. I also heard recently that they will no longer be putting flame retardants in any of their textiles. I have not gotten to the article that the editors note refers to yet, so I'm not completely educated on this issue, but in the meantime I am in the market for 2 dressers for my little ones, and we are going for used items, we don't shop at Wal Mart and we are usually very conscious of where our other stuff comes from. My point in general is that I had believed that Ikea was a more "green" place to shop, that is the impression that I have had all this time, and so has it been with many of my friends, I would be so greatly disappointed if what Mother Jones says is true, I tend to trust Mo Jo on these issues. I will post more when I know more.


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## melissa17s (Aug 3, 2004)

Everything I have bought from Ikea has been extremely well designed and well made, which is why I think it is disappointing, if the claims are true. That said, I did very minimal searching on google, and all of the links I found implied the opposite of the editorial. I googled "Ikea Russian Forest" and "Ikea deforestation". Ikea is noted as a company that is trying to set up standards for certification of lumber and they participate in education programs for responsible logging. Also, for their wood products, they are all fast growing woods, such as pine, birch, and beech unless it is a veneer, so to me this would indicate they are not taking as much from old growth forests (but I could be wrong).

I do like recycling and so I think getting second hand is a wonderful alternative to buying new. But sometimes, recycled is not an option. At this point, I would still buy from Ikea over their competitors because I feel they are at least making an attempt at being conscientious opposed to turning a blind eye or ignoring the problem (again, I could be wrong). So, now I think I am going to see, if I can come up with any other google combinations or maybe look at some of the academic indexes to see if I can find more information...


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## Periwinkle (Feb 27, 2003)

Ikea is cheap in part because they use cheap woods. Cheap woods do not come from forests in the middle of nowhere that have been growing for centuries. They come from trees that grow amazingly fast, located in places that are easy to harvest and replant, such as the softer pines and beech.

It's not like you can find an old growth mahogany kitchen table for $59.









I hate Ikea, but for other reasons... and have a hard time having this pass the common sense test, kwim?


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## moonmama22 (Mar 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Periwinkle* 
It's not like you can find an old growth mahogany kitchen table for $59.










Good point! I love shopping at IKEA, because it's affordable, and I actually enjoy putting my furniture together! I guess I too always assumed it was enviornmentally responsible. And though using wood is harmful to the environment, in a sense, it is still a renewable resource, and when harvested in a responsible way, can be replaced. (And still superior to plastic in so many ways!) Plus, ds loves the bright, fun kids stuff they have.


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## SamuraiMom (Nov 7, 2006)

O.K., so I have finally had time to get to the Ikea reference in the article, but first I want to share this quote first, in reference to "cheep wood". Like pine and the sort. There are old growth pine forests.

Quote:

"In Siberia, pine forests are largely unprotected unless damaged by fire, so loggers intent on exporting wood to CHIne routinely set the woods ablaze."
This isn't news, that loggers set woods on fire to pilfer forsests, it happens everywhere, but I just wanted to point out a specific area where it is being done, especially since it regards cheep wood that is protected.

As for IKEA

Quote:

"The chain buys a quarter of its furniture stock from China, which imports from Russia. A recent Washington Post investigation found that even though about half the wood from Russia is illegally harvested, Ikea employs only 2 foresters in China and 3 in Russia to track the origins of it's wood. *A company official acknowledged that the expense of guaranteeing its wood's legality is prohibitive.* Ikea has a goal that by 2009, at least %30 of it's wood will be certified. Currently only %4 of the wood used in it's Chinese factories passes that test."
I suppose they are making efforts to be more compliant with the certification plan, which is better than many other companies. A company called Armstrong Floor Products, according to the article, sells an endangered Indonesian wood and refuses to join the certification plan.
I would definately encourage all of you to read the whole article on Chine in this months issue of MoJo, I swear China and much of the far East is going to look like Mars in the next 100 years or so if the logging keeps up. Many areas that were lush with old growth trees are now deserts. Deserts! Just piles and piles of sand as far as the eye can see! Maybe my thread should have been on boycotting China...

I don't know, I am torn. I went through the house the other day thinking, "we need a new space rug for that room, a new lamp for that room and gosh it would be so much easier to just get those dressers new right now... maybe I'll make a trip to Ikea....


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## moonmama22 (Mar 31, 2005)

Wow - that stinks - we have a gift cert. that I've been really excited to use!


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## delphiniumpansy (Mar 1, 2007)

If you really need new stuff, why not try consignment shops and used furniture shops and other ways of getting furniture used. Almost all of our furniture is handed down from our family and is such better quality than anything you could get at IKEA. I have a 120 year old honduran old growth mahogany dining room set. I have cherry dresses and teak bedroom sets. All of this kind of stuff can be bought used and is made far better than stuff at IKEA. No allen wrenches were used to make any of it.







:


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## SamuraiMom (Nov 7, 2006)

Most of everything we have is used, hand me downs and such, I'm just making excuses to not have to schlep around looking at 8.5 months pregnant! And that is what big box stores bank on, convenience!


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## melissa17s (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *delphiniumpansy* 
If you really need new stuff, why not try consignment shops and used furniture shops and other ways of getting furniture used. Almost all of our furniture is handed down from our family and is such better quality than anything you could get at IKEA. I have a 120 year old honduran old growth mahogany dining room set. I have cherry dresses and teak bedroom sets. All of this kind of stuff can be bought used and is made far better than stuff at IKEA. No allen wrenches were used to make any of it.







:

The point of having the customer assemble their own stuff is that it involves less resources and labor, which in turn allows the customer a cheaper more environmentally friendly product. I do not doubt that your furniture is not nice, but sometimes consignment is not an option or the great second hand bargains are not such.

I do not trust the WP article only because they have lied and been bias in other articles in their paper. Also, it has been recycled all over the internet, but very little else has been critical of IKEA. I am always suspect when one article gets over quoted, but has little information to back it up.


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## honolula (Apr 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SamuraiMom* 
A company called Armstrong Floor Products, according to the article, sells an endangered Indonesian wood and refuses to join the certification plan.

Armstrong is located down the road from me, and my house-mate works there in R&D. Wouold you mind sending me the part of the arcticle that relates to them? I'm sure she'd like to read it!


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## SamuraiMom (Nov 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *melissa17s* 
The point of having the customer assemble their own stuff is that it involves less resources and labor, which in turn allows the customer a cheaper more environmentally friendly product. I do not doubt that your furniture is not nice, but sometimes consignment is not an option or the great second hand bargains are not such.

I do not trust the WP article only because they have lied and been bias in other articles in their paper. Also, it has been recycled all over the internet, but very little else has been critical of IKEA. I am always suspect when one article gets over quoted, but has little information to back it up.

Assembling one's own furniture doesn't ensure that the product is environmentally friendly it only ensures a cheep product because the company didn't have to pay workers to assemble the furniture in their factory. I am not sure who WP is, I am quoting from MJ, Mother Jones, and the article is in this months issue, not only on the internet, on their web site. I also want to point out that they are not naming only Ikea, there are many many companies who exploit protected forests all over the world, Ikea is just one that is well known. I happen to love Ikea, and I know that they are known to make efforts in being environmentally friendly, i.e. making their textiles flame retardant free. SO perhaps rather than boycotting them, one might write letters encouraging them to do more to comply with the certification plan that protects endangered forests.

Duh, O.K., WP...


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## melissa17s (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SamuraiMom* 
Assembling one's own furniture doesn't ensure that the product is environmentally friendly it only ensures a cheep product because the company didn't have to pay workers to assemble the furniture in their factory. I am not sure who WP is, I am quoting from MJ, Mother Jones, and the article is in this months issue, not only on the internet, on their web site. I also want to point out that they are not naming only Ikea, there are many many companies who exploit protected forests all over the world, Ikea is just one that is well known. I happen to love Ikea, and I know that they are known to make efforts in being environmentally friendly, i.e. making their textiles flame retardant free. SO perhaps rather than boycotting them, one might write letters encouraging them to do more to comply with the certification plan that protects endangered forests.

Duh, O.K., WP...

You do not need as much packaging for an unassembled product, plus it is a smaller foot print to ship and store, and that is why is it more environmentally friendly- not just Cheap.

Washington Post = WP for anyone else wondering.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

I just read this in Mother Jones! I was not surprised. Sad, but not surprised. There is **no way** a company can sell that stuff so cheaply and *still* make a giant profit that keeps their invcestors thrilled. It's *not* possible. We need to get over *that*.

I don;t care if it's a $100 sofa or a $20 cashmere sweater. Ikea, Walmart, Home Depot, Target...whatever. They all need to keep their investors happy, and we can *never* kid ourselves about that. What does it take to make something? We're talking about cashemere sweaters selling for bunches less than organic baby slings or woolen diaper covers. How does *that* work*, kwim?

Sad sad sad. Money is worth more to the bottom line than the environment or people. Whether it's Whole Foods selling 'organic' rice from China, or Trader Joe's selling 'organic' spinach from China, or cheapola 'wild' salmon. Can Ikea or Home Depot really sell cheap sofas or tables *that* cheaply when a wham can't make a diaper for pennies on the dollar?

*Think* about the real cost of *stuff*.


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## TinyBabyBean (Oct 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *delphiniumpansy* 
If you really need new stuff, why not try consignment shops and used furniture shops and other ways of getting furniture used. Almost all of our furniture is handed down from our family and is such better quality than anything you could get at IKEA. I have a 120 year old honduran old growth mahogany dining room set. I have cherry dresses and teak bedroom sets. All of this kind of stuff can be bought used and is made far better than stuff at IKEA. No allen wrenches were used to make any of it.







:









: I am going to take some pictures of our furniture and such. Most everything we got from *freecycle.org* , *craigslist.org* , or by the side of the road. There is certainly enough stuff already not in use such that no one should need to buy anything new for a very, very long time. Heck, you don't even need to buy used stuff with sites like free cycle and craig's list! Possibly even indefinately. Have you guys checked out storyofstuff.com ?

I will be back with some pictures tomorrow!


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## NaturalMamma (Nov 22, 2001)

I never understood why everyone is so







about Ikea. I think their stuff is junk. When I lived in Germany, they were just another cheap store for college kids. Then I come back to the states and find that people are so gaga over them. I think that people in the U.S. are so foolishly enchanted with anything that seems "European".


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## TinyBabyBean (Oct 18, 2003)

I promised I would upload pics and finally here they are. I am not by any means "bragging" and I know our home is not the most fashionable. But, I am so proud to look around and know I have gotten nearly everything used. And on top of that free mostly! All of the big furniture items you see were free. I did buy the light teal dressers used on craig's list though. The outside toys were all bought used or found by the side of the road. The toys in the play area were from freecycle, yard sales, craig's list.

I have just had a baby and we just moved so things are not decorated the way I would like but it is all just fine really.

I just love to spread the word about really helping reduce and reuse because they are important parts of those three recycling Rs.

Here is my stuff I am super thankful for:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/1002497...7603938664917/


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