# My friends tell my kids they're rude. How to deal.



## Wild Lupine (Jul 22, 2009)

I'm not sure if this belongs in the GD forum, but since I don't think it's a disciplinary issue for my child I'm posting it here. Moderators, move it if you need to.

There have been several situations in which people have told my child they were being 'rude.' These are childless people, who have no reason to know what's typical behavior for an age, nor how to talk with kids. Here are some examples:

My 18 month old interrupted a conversation. I say, 'One minute, honey. Wait one minute.' Other person says, as if to back me up, 'Yes, interrupting is rude.' I could cope with this with a five year old, but 18 months, seriously?

Another example is when my three year old was talking to someone and standing very close. The other person told her she was being rude for standing so close. I told DD that people tend to like space around them and DD stepped back immediately.

There are a few chronic offenders in my life that do this often. I really don't like my kids being told they're being rude when their intention is so benign, or at all really. I'm not into labeling kids or their intentions for them. I know this is happening because these people have no experience with kids, but I feel like I should stick up for my kids better than I do. I wouldn't tolerate one of my kids calling someone else rude, or any other name, yet in the moment I cannot think of a way to defend them from the same.

Anyone have a handy phrase along the lines of, 'Don't want to make the moment too uncomfortable, but please don't tell my kid s/he's rude. It's insulting and I don't want him/her to imitate you with someone else. Thanks.'

And in case you're wondering bigger issues do get a swift response from me, albeit in a GD way. My friends aren't having to put up with repetitive disruptive behavior from my kids.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

This is a good question and I'd like to hear suggestions! This only happened to me once. My dd and I were at the self-checkout lane at the grocery store, and she had offered to start packaging the food into bags, but I'm picky about what goes with what so I told her not to worry, I'd do it, and then she and I chatted. So this man walks by and scolds her for being rude because she should be bagging the groceries! I was shocked and just said "she's fine" because that's all that came out of my mouth, though the tone I used probably spoke more than the words. Anyway, I'd love to hear some better ideas! My dd was really really saddened by this when it happened.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

I try to use these times as a teaching situation (for everyone if possible) so with the 18month old...

Pal: yes interrupting is rude
Me (to child, smiling and pleased): It sure can be! It's so hard to be polite when you don't know the rules yet isn't it? - you're doing great learning this when you're such a little baby! Most kids are MUCH bigger before they get the hang of it!

or the 3yo
Pal: don't stand so close! It's rude!
Me (to child): people like space around them honey - it's called "personal space" (as she steps back) Great! That's right (then to friend) doesn't she learn fast!? (so enthusiastically they are forced to agree) Then back to DD) If you ever want more personal space you say politely "step back please, you're a little close" (therefore modelling for BOTH of them how one POLITELY deals with this).

Rather than telling people not to be rude, i say something like "i find if i use a friendlier tone she learns better -it's so scary having a grown up correct you harshly when you're 1/3/whatever." Only on two occasions, once when DD1 was told to "shut up" and once when she was called an "idiot" did i immediately and loudly say "No. Do not speak to her like that." and on both occasions the adult in question immediately apologised.

I get that these people don't have kids, but your kids will not only have to deal with others with kids in their lives, so in the long run i would try to educate everyone rather than model correcting adults to your kids.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

mamazee in the situation with the random stranger i would have said in my very forceful voice "she is doing EXACTLY as i have asked her to do thank you." and given him my "don't mess with the cub" look.

I do think being able to deal with other people being rude graciously is a useful life skill.


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## Wild Lupine (Jul 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
This is a good question and I'd like to hear suggestions! This only happened to me once. My dd and I were at the self-checkout lane at the grocery store, and she had offered to start packaging the food into bags, but I'm picky about what goes with what so I told her not to worry, I'd do it, and then she and I chatted. So this man walks by and scolds her for being rude because she should be bagging the groceries! I was shocked and just said "she's fine" because that's all that came out of my mouth, though the tone I used probably spoke more than the words. Anyway, I'd love to hear some better ideas! My dd was really really saddened by this when it happened.









Wow, I'd have been really upset if a complete stranger did this. I think you responded really well.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoBecGo* 
in the long run i would try to educate everyone rather than model correcting adults to your kids.

Good point. That's been my hesitation about saying anything, I don't want to model correcting other people's behavior at all. But your suggestions are great, hopefully I'll remember them next time something like this happens.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

I think perhaps the people are just being more direct than you are used to. Interrupting is rude. It is not accusation that your dd lacks manners. She is simply explaining why one should not interrupt. Because it is rude. (although I think this is over the head of an 18 month old.) I did not see in either example anyone berating or demeaning your child. They were simply giving them a reason why one should not interrupt or invade personal space. because those things are considered rude.

In mamazee's example though....What an odd exchange. I would have simply reinforced to my child that she was fine and then tell her I was sorry that man spoke to her so rudely. It was none of his business what we were doing or why.


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

I've pointed out that according to Emily Post, correcting someone else's manners is one of the rudest things one can do. Good manner and politeness are all about making people feel comfortable, and telling someone else that he is being rude doesn't accomplish this.

That's what I would say on a good day, anyway... on a bad day I would say something... less polite. Grrr.


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## happysmileylady (Feb 6, 2009)

I would just like to point out that saying "interrupting is rude" is entirely different than calling the child rude. "Interrupting is rude" is calling the ACTION rude, not the child...and in another 18 months or 2 years or so, it's likely exactly what you will be saying to your child.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoBecGo* 
I try to use these times as a teaching situation (for everyone if possible) so with the 18month old...

Pal: yes interrupting is rude
Me (to child, smiling and pleased): It sure can be! It's so hard to be polite when you don't know the rules yet isn't it? - you're doing great learning this when you're such a little baby! Most kids are MUCH bigger before they get the hang of it!

or the 3yo
Pal: don't stand so close! It's rude!
Me (to child): people like space around them honey - it's called "personal space" (as she steps back) Great! That's right (then to friend) doesn't she learn fast!? (so enthusiastically they are forced to agree) Then back to DD) If you ever want more personal space you say politely "step back please, you're a little close" (therefore modelling for BOTH of them how one POLITELY deals with this).

Rather than telling people not to be rude, i say something like "i find if i use a friendlier tone she learns better -it's so scary having a grown up correct you harshly when you're 1/3/whatever." Only on two occasions, once when DD1 was told to "shut up" and once when she was called an "idiot" did i immediately and loudly say "No. Do not speak to her like that." and on both occasions the adult in question immediately apologised.

I get that these people don't have kids, but your kids will not only have to deal with others with kids in their lives, so in the long run i would try to educate everyone rather than model correcting adults to your kids.

Yes, yes, yes.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
I think perhaps the people are just being more direct than you are used to. Interrupting is rude. It is not accusation that your dd lacks manners. She is simply explaining why one should not interrupt. Because it is rude. (although I think this is over the head of an 18 month old.) I did not see in either example anyone berating or demeaning your child. They were simply giving them a reason why one should not interrupt or invade personal space. because those things are considered rude..

And this, too. I actually use the word rude with my kids, from the get go (I'd say by 18 months I was using them) - but not in an accusatory, snotty way, just a factual way to describe to them how their actions are perceived by others - it's not loaded with any shame, it is informative, and is followed by an alternative thing they can do instead. I use all sorts of "big" words with them about behaviors so that they learn the words and are able to learn alternates. WOrds like rude, impatient, impolite....and the positive ones like kind, patient, polite, thoughtful.

If, however, it was someone else telling my kid they were rude with a tone of voice laden with attitude, it would be the adult's tone I had the problem with moreso than the words themselves.


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## tanyam926 (May 25, 2005)

This is a great post, my question in trying to navigate these situations is where is the line between correcting other adults and sticking up for my child?

As a child I felt that no one stuck up for me when my gpa was cruel to me and it is something I still remember. I am very sensitive to this and never want my children to have to go through what I went through.

I find that strangers are amazingly rude and intrusive sometimes and it really irks me. I try to nicely say something like, "I can handle this, thanks".

So, where is the line? I don't want to be rude when addressing rude behavior, especially bc I realize that most people are acting out of cluelessness instead of meanness.

(Don't mean to hijack, sorry!)


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## Wild Lupine (Jul 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happysmileylady* 
I would just like to point out that saying "interrupting is rude" is entirely different than calling the child rude. "Interrupting is rude" is calling the ACTION rude, not the child...and in another 18 months or 2 years or so, it's likely exactly what you will be saying to your child.

It may be a stylistic difference, but I find it more helpful with my children to point out how their actions affect other people than to ascribe a motivation to them. It's just what works with me and my kids so I don't think I'll be telling them they're behavior is rude any time soon. I may very likely tell them that behavior x causes pain, damages the furniture, or hurts peoples feelings, but because I'm not in their heads I try to avoid ascribing motivation. And it doesn't really matter; for example, they need to learn not to interrupt, whether they've interrupted through rudeness, thoughtlessness, or impulsiveness.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The4OfUs* 
If, however, it was someone else telling my kid they were rude with a tone of voice laden with attitude, it would be the adult's tone I had the problem with moreso than the words themselves.

Well, the tone is kinda there.







, and they're not people who have much of a relationship with my kids. They have one with me, but not the kids. That's a big part of the issue for me. If they knew my kids better they'd have a better idea of how to negotiate their own needs with them without getting upset about the poor social skills of babies and toddlers.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tanyam926* 
This is a great post, my question in trying to navigate these situations *is where is the line between correcting other adults and sticking up for my child?*

As a child I felt that no one stuck up for me when my gpa was cruel to me and it is something I still remember. I am very sensitive to this and never want my children to have to go through what I went through.

I find that strangers are amazingly rude and intrusive sometimes and it really irks me. I try to nicely say something like, "I can handle this, thanks".

So, where is the line? I don't want to be rude when addressing rude behavior, especially bc I realize that most people are acting out of cluelessness instead of meanness.

(Don't mean to hijack, sorry!)

No worries about hijacking! I think you asked the question better than I did, especially the bolded part. Thanks!


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## Belia (Dec 22, 2007)

I don't know if this would work exactly, maybe you could reply, with a smile and a chuckle, "Don't be silly! DC isn't being rude, he's being a toddler!" Just to plant the seed that your child should maybe not be held to the same standards as an adult.


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## DariusMom (May 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoBecGo* 
I try to use these times as a teaching situation (for everyone if possible) so with the 18month old...

Pal: yes interrupting is rude
Me (to child, smiling and pleased): It sure can be! It's so hard to be polite when you don't know the rules yet isn't it? - you're doing great learning this when you're such a little baby! Most kids are MUCH bigger before they get the hang of it!

or the 3yo
Pal: don't stand so close! It's rude!
Me (to child): people like space around them honey - it's called "personal space" (as she steps back) Great! That's right (then to friend) doesn't she learn fast!? (so enthusiastically they are forced to agree) Then back to DD) If you ever want more personal space you say politely "step back please, you're a little close" (therefore modelling for BOTH of them how one POLITELY deals with this).

Rather than telling people not to be rude, i say something like "i find if i use a friendlier tone she learns better -it's so scary having a grown up correct you harshly when you're 1/3/whatever." Only on two occasions, once when DD1 was told to "shut up" and once when she was called an "idiot" did i immediately and loudly say "No. Do not speak to her like that." and on both occasions the adult in question immediately apologised.

I get that these people don't have kids, but your kids will not only have to deal with others with kids in their lives, so in the long run i would try to educate everyone rather than model correcting adults to your kids.

love this post.







great advice and, although I'm not the OP, I'm going to try and incorporate some of the suggestions into situations I come across.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dar* 
I've pointed out that according to Emily Post, correcting someone else's manners is one of the rudest things one can do. Good manner and politeness are all about making people feel comfortable, and telling someone else that he is being rude doesn't accomplish this.


I was going to post this very thing!







Miss Manners says the same thing.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Belia* 
I don't know if this would work exactly, maybe you could reply, with a smile and a chuckle, "Don't be silly! DC isn't being rude, he's being a toddler!" Just to plant the seed that your child should maybe not be held to the same standards as an adult.

Also a nice response.


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

I don't see anything wrong with what your kids said. Both actions are rude, and I fully believe an 18MO can learn that. I would have (and probably did) said, "interrupting while others are talking is impolite. You have to wait your turn." By 18MO, my kids got that, even if they didn't always follow through. As for the personal space, well, your friend has the right to tell your dd how she feels about her own space. Just because she didn't choose the exact words you did doesn't mean she's mean or that it's only because she's childless.

My nephew used to hang from our arms all the time while we were sitting down. It really bothered me, and BIL & SIL always said, "you don't have kids..." You know what? I have kids, and I still don't let people grab my arm and hang. Plus I still have to tell my 10YO nephew that he needs to respect others' desires not to be touched or pulled on all the time.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

When we come down to it, though.... interrupting IS rude. There really isn't anything wrong with saying it. So is violating personal space. And I don't know that it's wrong - or rude - of the person who feels violated to say so.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

I think it really is a matter of presentation. You can say just about anything to someone tactfully and not offend them.....but often people don't use tact with kids because they don't think they "deserve" it or something. Tone of voice is SO important and probably the isue at hand here, more than the word "rude".


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

My 8-year-old didn't understand the concept of interrupting when she was 18 months, and my 19-month-old does not at all understand that either. She's a walking baby. I don't think it's reasonable to expect an 18-month-old to understand that, and I don't think it's reasonable to then put a label like "rude" on him/her or even his/her babyish behavior.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

I don't think they are expecting an 18 month old to understand it yet. But learning comes with repetition. The more my kids here "Don't interrupt, honey. Interrupting is impolite/rude" the sooner they will associate interrupting with their actions and rudeness with non desirable behavior. I think it is all part of learning and I do not get offended when people interact with my child in ways that teach her social mores and cultural values. Its part of being part of the larger community around you. So long as it is done in a loving or neutral manner i do not mind (and actually value) other people correcting my child. Even if it is not something i value they need to learn that other people do.

Learning to function in your society and culture is part of growing up. If we don't start teaching them as infants then when? Are we not holding them back by refusing to teach them to interact in socially acceptable ways? if we do not teach them to be a part of the social group?


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

I think you're never too young to start learning manners - even at 18 months children can be told that an action is rude. The way it is taught is another thing all together.

If these people are "Friends", then they must be close enough to you to think that they are in the circle of people who are considered the "village" that will raise your child. If that is not the case, I think it's your prerogative to tell them to not correct your child. Otherwise, I don't see anything wrong with what they did. They said what needed to be said, perhaps not very gingerly, but still...


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I think the way to start teaching a toddler not to interrupt is to say, "Just a minute honey, Mommy is talking to grandma. I'll talk to you when I'm done talking to grandma." But "interruption" and "rude" are not concepts an 18-month-old is going to get. When they can understand those concepts, it makes sense to frame it in that way, but it doesn't make sense to call the very normal behavior of an 18-month-old "rude" when it's just babyish behavior. Is it rude when a 3-month-old cries when someone is talking? No, it's just a baby. And when a toddler is thrashing around, the toddler isn't bullying, and in the same way when a toddler babbles when someone else is talking, it isn't "rude."


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Diff'rent strokes. But saying a behavior is "rude" is not akin to hurling obscenities at a child. I don't see how "interrupting while others are talking is impolite. You have to wait your turn." is significantly different that "please don't interrupt - it's rude". Except that the former takes a lot longer to say and the kid has likely tuned out by the time you get to the end.


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## Wild Lupine (Jul 22, 2009)

Very interesting responses! I suppose this thread could also be titled 'other people disciplining my children in a style I'm not comfortable with.'

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dar* 
I've pointed out that according to Emily Post, correcting someone else's manners is one of the rudest things one can do. Good manner and politeness are all about making people feel comfortable, and telling someone else that he is being rude doesn't accomplish this.

Yes, I'd ever tell an adult what they did was rude, I'd find some other way to express my need and wishes. "I'm talking, I will speak with you when I am done," said with a tone appropriate to the situation is much more effective to me than telling an adult they're actions are rude. Same for kids.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
I think you're never too young to start learning manners - even at 18 months children can be told that an action is rude. The way it is taught is another thing all together.

If these people are "Friends", then they must be close enough to you to think that they are in the circle of people who are considered the "village" that will raise your child. If that is not the case, I think it's your prerogative to tell them to not correct your child. Otherwise, I don't see anything wrong with what they did. They said what needed to be said, perhaps not very gingerly, but still...

Oh, I totally agree. Manners are important and teaching them all lies in the 'how.' From the moment my kids start interrupting I have them wait. A few seconds for a baby, longer for a toddler; my 3.5 year old must wait until the conversation is done before I'll turn to her (except in emergencies or extremely long conversations of course). But "I'm talking, I don't like being interrupted. Please wait until I am done.'' is miles different to me than 'you're being rude.' Maybe that's me; I'll need to think more why these are so very different for me. I guess I'm trying to teach manners not just directly but by exemplification. Telling someone they're being rude, especially someone else's child, just feels really harsh to me. I don't want to say it, I don't want to hear it. I think I mentioned in a PP that this isn't a 'hey, please be aware that interrupting is rude,' type of a remark, but a sharp reprimand.

The personal space issue is so very culturally bound. We have lots of friends and family from different cultures and all have different personal space requirements. In the example, my DD was standing as close to my friend as my Dad's side of the family would stand to her. Yes, I think she's entirely capable of learning that different people like different levels of closeness, but at three she needs more direct education about this. To label her behavior as rude without first saying, 'I'd like a little more space', or even shifting position to give oneself more space, is neither effective or respectful. Will she now think of her family and friends who stand close as rude? Will she start telling them that? Big can of worms here. Or, to look at it another way, big teachable moment!

And I totally agree, I need to talk to these people about this, I'm just struggling with the words. I've been talking more about my discipline style around them so they get a sense of what my kids are used to. Maybe it will take eventually.


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## Wild Lupine (Jul 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mtiger* 
Diff'rent strokes. But saying a behavior is "rude" is not akin to hurling obscenities at a child.

Nope, definitely not. It would be a much easier dilemma to solve if it were about hurling obscenities!


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Belia* 
I don't know if this would work exactly, maybe you could reply, with a smile and a chuckle, "Don't be silly! DC isn't being rude, he's being a toddler!" Just to plant the seed that your child should maybe not be held to the same standards as an adult.

Why is it silly to not want to be interrupted or to have your personal space invaded? I think if your goal is to have your children respected and treated with dignity, you shouldn't belittle adult feelings either.

Granted, I hate that phrase "Don't be silly", though. I've never seen it used in a way that wasn't a blowoff.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

I actually try to hold even babies to the same standards as adults, but without the associated expectation. Like i do think everyone should be reminded of good manners when it becomes necessary, i will even (for DD1's sake) say to DD2 (who is 3 months old!) "oh honey, please don't yell when DD is telling me her story" (as i lift her to nurse for a bit). My mum once told me to treat a new baby like a foreign adult - be VERY respectful, they are real, thinking, feeling people, be VERY patient, they are in a totally alien culture and are yet to learn the language, the norms and the niceties, be VERY helpful, they are relying on you to help them navigate the world they find themself in.

So i think it's ok to ask an 18month old baby to behave in a more well-mannered way, i just think it's unfair and unkind to display the irritation one might have towards an adult being so rude to a little child.


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## c'est moi (Sep 8, 2009)

yeah, saying "interrupting is rude" is more blunt than "it's not polite to interrupt" or "we wait until people are talking," but they all address the same behavior and do not label the person/child being spoken to.

i was raised in a culture where it is acceptable and expected to "parent" other people's children. thankfully, my closest mom friends know this about me and also do the same. i have no problem asking my friend's 19-month old daughter (and did many times this morning) to use gentle hands and that it makes other people sad when we are rough with them. and when my 20-month old daughter steps out of line, i appreciate my friend calling out my daughter. i'm all about the "takes a village" model.


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## lookatreestar (Apr 14, 2008)

i tend to just ignore it because it usually comes from two of my three siblings. the two without kids


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## lach (Apr 17, 2009)

I agree with the people who say that there's nothing wrong with telling a child that certain behaviors are rude.

But if it really bothers you, I'd just say "thanks, I got it. She's so young, she gets confused when she gets a bunch of directions from different people all at once."


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## Wild Lupine (Jul 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tigerchild* 
Why is it silly to not want to be interrupted or to have your personal space invaded? I think if your goal is to have your children respected and treated with dignity, you shouldn't belittle adult feelings either.

Granted, I hate that phrase "Don't be silly", though. I've never seen it used in a way that wasn't a blowoff.

I think you may have missed the part where I had already dealt with the interruption. It's not silly to not want to be interrupted. My issue is that I've been respectful to the adult by having the 18-month old wait, but I don't believe I'm being respectful to the child by having them be reprimanded simply because they don't yet know social expectations. As I said before, it's not a simple teaching of 'interrupting is rude', but a putting down type of tone. It's hard to explain, but I do have friends who have a more educational approach with my children, and it doesn't bother me a bit. What I'm talking about here is different. And generally it is done after I've already done something, as a sort of back up after the situation has been resolved.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoBecGo* 
I actually try to hold even babies to the same standards as adults, but without the associated expectation. Like i do think everyone should be reminded of good manners when it becomes necessary, i will even (for DD1's sake) say to DD2 (who is 3 months old!) "oh honey, please don't yell when DD is telling me her story" (as i lift her to nurse for a bit). My mum once told me to treat a new baby like a foreign adult - be VERY respectful, they are real, thinking, feeling people, be VERY patient, they are in a totally alien culture and are yet to learn the language, the norms and the niceties, be VERY helpful, they are relying on you to help them navigate the world they find themself in.

So i think it's ok to ask an 18month old baby to behave in a more well-mannered way, i just think it's unfair and unkind to display the irritation one might have towards an adult being so rude to a little child.

I LOVE what your mother said about how to treat. Beautiful. She must be a very wise woman.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lach* 
I agree with the people who say that there's nothing wrong with telling a child that certain behaviors are rude.

But if it really bothers you, I'd just say "thanks, I got it. She's so young, she gets confused when she gets a bunch of directions from different people all at once."

I like this response. Very respectful all around.


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## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

When someone speaks to my child in a way I feel is not appropriate or helpful, I make a big over-the-top deal of "translating" for my child what they are saying into a way of saying it that is much more positive. ie, "he would like for you to please wait until he is finished talking, then it is your turn to talk, so everyone gets their turn. Thanks !" Then I smile sweetly at the adult. If the adult finds this rude, oh well. My kid. I'll translate poorly worded things for them if I want to.

Regarding the guy at the grocery store, I wouldn't hesitate to correct him on the spot. IMO that's not rude; it's verbally defending your kid against completely unsolicited, unwarranted, rude, critical interference from an uninvolved stranger who should have minded his own beeswax. "No, she's doing just _fine_. I like to bag them myself."


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
I think perhaps the people are just being more direct than you are used to. Interrupting is rude. It is not accusation that your dd lacks manners. She is simply explaining why one should not interrupt. Because it is rude. (although I think this is over the head of an 18 month old.) I did not see in either example anyone berating or demeaning your child. They were simply giving them a reason why one should not interrupt or invade personal space. because those things are considered rude.


I just want to say that until recently I was one of the few people in my friend group that didnt have children, and I never would have said that to a kid.

The big issue with telling a child that they are rude, is the fact that I feel like they need to understand _why_ something is considered rude. And, in the case of interrupting, it seems important that they learn not to do it not only because it is rude, but because if they interrupt during a conversation they are engaged in, they may well miss something or not hear the point. I feel like it is ridiculous to tell a 18 month old that they are being "rude".

Also, the point that the adult isnt calling the child rude, they are calling the action rude is symantics. My husband and I have argued this point with his phrase, "Stop being such a bitch", where he maintains that he's not calling _me_ a bitch, its just that what Im _doing_ is bitchy.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

You know, I think we nmeed to remember that the person said what they said *after* the OP addressed her kid. So it's not like the person turned to the kid and said, "You're rude." with nothing else said to the kid. The mom asked the child to wait, and the person "backed her up". Not something I'd do, or really want another person to necessarily do after i had addressed my kid, but I wouldn't paint this person too badly either, like they're snarling at babies or something. I do agree the OP should talk to her friends about the boundaries she is comfortable with with her children, but we all shoudl also keep in mind that kids can be exposed to all different kinds of interactions and learn to deal with them; it's the majority interactions at home that are going to shape them. So I don't think I'd sweat seeing a friend occasionally who was more terse or authoritarian than I am, so long as they weren't being *mean* or really harming my kid. KWIM?


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Wild Lupine, I was speaking about the suggested response to someone saying "That's rude" being "Don't be silly." I find the "Don't be silly" response to be dismissive and rude in and of itself.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The4OfUs* 
You know, I think we nmeed to remember that the person said what they said *after* the OP addressed her kid. So it's not like the person turned to the kid and said, "You're rude." with nothing else said to the kid. The mom asked the child to wait, and the person "backed her up". Not something I'd do, or really want another person to necessarily do after i had addressed my kid, but I wouldn't paint this person too badly either, like they're snarling at babies or something.

That's actually the part that would bug me, though. If I'm handling a situation, there's no need for anyone in my "village" to come in and start handling it too -- I think of the village as being there to help out when I can't, not to help me gang up on my kid. DS does that with DD sometimes -- I'll tell her not to do something and he'll chime in with, "Yeah, you shouldn't do that," and I always tell him to let me handle it alone, and that DD doesn't need a bunch of people talking to her at once. That's the same way I'd feel if a friend did that.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

See, I don't consider saying "that action is rude" the same as saying "thats is so bitchy". But clearly some people feel the word "rude" is too harsh. or somehow a reprimand. I consider it a very neutral explanation. Perhaps the OP should just explain to her friends that she thinks rude is a harsh word to attach top a child's behavior. And maybe she could also tell them she doesn't need any help correcting or teaching her children and would prefer to do it herself.


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## Forthwith (Aug 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The4OfUs* 
You can say just about anything to someone tactfully and not offend them.....but often people don't use tact with kids because they don't think they "deserve" it or something.

I am less tactful with young children because I don't consider tact to always be age appropriate. I am never harsh or rude, but imho being direct to young children is both more effective and kinder to the child, since they understand better what you want from them.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kelmendi* 
I am less tactful with young children because I don't consider tact to always be age appropriate. I am never harsh or rude, but imho being direct to young children is both more effective and kinder to the child, since they understand better what you want from them.

Oh, ITA. I was talking more about people being harsher to kids than they might to others, softening the blow so to speak. Not being indirect or beating around the bush. Often it is jsut a matter of tone and wording to convey a message more gently.


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## Wild Lupine (Jul 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tigerchild* 
Wild Lupine, I was speaking about the suggested response to someone saying "That's rude" being "Don't be silly." I find the "Don't be silly" response to be dismissive and rude in and of itself.

Ok, I totally see what you mean.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

I'd be happy my friends were helping to teach my kids manners. That's what community is all about.


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## wendiecarroll1 (May 20, 2011)

Deleted! It wasn't pertinent...


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## wendiecarroll1 (May 20, 2011)

Ooops, I apologize, I did not see the original post...Please classify my above post as a general rant. With an 18 mo and a 3 yo, I agree it is not a good thing to be calling them "rude" when they are just being children. A 3 yo is going to take things to heart when, like brilliiantly mentioned in the above post, they are actually like little foreigners just learning their way.

I apologize for venting without reading the entire post.


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Edited, because, holy cow, this thread is more than eight months old!


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wild Lupine*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Well, there's one potential difference in viewpoint right there. I don't think calling a certain behaviour "rude" is acribing motivation. It's rude to interrupt, and I want my kids to know that. If I point out that it's rude, I'm not saying "you're trying to be rude". I'm saying "what you're doing is rude (ie. impolite)". I don't see that as being any different than if I said, "interrupting hurts the feelings of the person talking".

This could be one difference in perspective that causes the problems. In any case, I do tell my kids that their behaviour is rude, if they're being rude. I wouldn't say it to dd2, because she'd have no clue what I was talking about, anyway - but I say it to the other kids, and it has nothing to do with their motivations. I've known several rude people (and even people who aren't generally rude usually slip up, at least occasionally), and I don't think any of them get out of bed in the morning, and think "I'm going to spend my day being rude to people", yk?

ETA: I just realized this is an old thread. I will say that the "don't be bitchy" example is more of the same. I don't think dh would ever say I was being bitchy, as he just doesn't talk that way - but I have had people tell me I was being bitchy in the past. I've also had people call me a bitch. They were meant differently, and they felt different. I don't think the issue of whether one is labelling the person or the behaviour is one of semantics. It really does make a big difference.


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## Wild Lupine (Jul 22, 2009)

Wow, OP here, what an old thread! My children are so much older and my perspective is somewhat different. I do now use the word 'rude' to my daughter when she's doing things that would bug other people, as in, 'DD, it's generally considered rude to take food off other people's plate, please stop.' Not, 'you're so rude.'). But she's 4 1/2 now, she gets the concept of 'rude.' It's a useful way to help her learn how to act around other people. It was such a different story when the events I posted about happened; she was just a toddler, absorbed in her own little world, and acting silly. She did need to be redirected and start to learn the effect of her actions on others, but the word rude meant nothing. My son is now the same age my daughter was when the first incidents I wrote about happened (2 1/2) and the contrast between 4 1/2 and 2 1/2 is enormous. My 4 1/2 DD can understand and take responsibility for her actions in a way that my 2 1/2 DS can barely comprehend.

I think the big underlying issue at the time I first posted was that the people disciplining my daughter really did not know her at all, and did not spend much time around young children. They had no basis to know what she understood about social norms and what she didn't, what was age appropriate behavior, and what kind of redirection worked for her. I've never had a problem with people who do know my children well redirecting them in an appropriate way.


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## mommy212 (Mar 2, 2010)

I don't this would really bother me. Part of our gentle discipline is telling them things like, this is rude; people like their space and you should respect this; etc, I tell them what is wrong but don't punish it


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## Lisa1970 (Jan 18, 2009)

Childless people are irritating. I know how you feel. Those people you have to take with a grain of salt. I thought I knew it all before children. Now I know I knew nothing.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

I'd be tempted in many of these situations to say "well tha-ank you Miss Manners!" in a very belittling tone.

But that'd be a bad example for my kid.

I've never had even the people who made jokes about duct taping kids to keep them quiet before I had kids say anything remotely mean to dd. So the idea of people being bossy curmudgeons to a kid when the parent is right there is baffling. Are your friends always so abrupt and impatient?


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## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

A woman on the subway the other day was very worried that 4.5 year old DD might touch her in some way (it was a crowded train and many people were standing - yet this woman seemed to be taking up a lot of space in girth and baggage). The woman once gave me a very deadly look and I told DD: "Come on, let's move to the door, some people on here can't afford car services and taxis so they NEED to take public transportation, despite their problems. We should understand their situation and make every effort to make ourselves as small as possible." Some people were snickering beside me. 

I was POed in a major way because in all honesty, the woman was being unreasonable in a situation that called for a little tolerance. Sometimes I have to say underhanded rude things out loud in order to get past it. I'm usually a pretty even person, but sometimes you have to dish it back. I feel your pain, OP, especially when it comes to under five children who are technically being "good" but are just being under five.

I don't think childfree children are like this per se, in fact, I know a lot of child-free people who are totally smart and reasonable and laid back. There are a limited number of people, though, who no matter what their station (child-free, older empty-nesters, unreasonable people with small kids who just don't get it, etc.) will complain and comment. Let's not cite child-free people as the problem. It's just miserable human beings who are the problem, and they come in all groups and classes.


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## SpiderMum (Sep 13, 2008)

I'd be blunt and just say "way to model even more rudeness there, friend!"


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Quote:


> I don't think childfree children are like this per se, in fact, I know a lot of child-free people who are totally smart and reasonable and laid back. * There are a limited number of people, though, who no matter what their station (child-free, older empty-nesters, unreasonable people with small kids who just don't get it, etc.) will complain and comment. *Let's not cite child-free people as the problem. It's just miserable human beings who are the problem, and they come in all groups and classes.


Great point. And that's my dad. I can't say that he's a miserable person. But he does not have patience or understanding with kids and is quick to get huffy and annoyed with them. I think it's sad, because he's missing out on his grand kids. That's his prerogative, and his loss.


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## lab (Jun 11, 2003)

I know it is an old thread - but I have to chime in!

Eh - I'm old now so I am over all the subtleties of having young kids and trying not to offend. At this point in my life - I would probably turn to junior and say....

"actually sweetheart, your auntie is the one who is being rude. See, she doesn't have children and really doesn't understand how to speak to them or what is appropriate"


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