# ~Nov/Dec 02' babes Chat for January~



## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Well, I guess we'll keep on going on MDC for awhile. If anyone wants to start a MSN or Yahoo group, let us know.

If there is anyone else "out there" who reads this thread, but doesn't think they can join, please do! The more the merrier!









Right now my little munchkin is asking to watch (Charlottes Web)"movees, pig..." ... I let her watch a couple of videos over x-mas, and now she's hooked.









How's everyone else doing?


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

we are off to a good start of the new year here. our daycare is open today after being closed since AUGUST







: our lives have been crazy with dd racing home from work to be home by 3:30 (he is a teacher) and me going to a cafe or somewhere with wireless internet to work 4-10 every night. it has been exhausting! i have loved the time with ga but i have been so tired. i am so lucky that i have such a flexible job.

we have been preparing ga all weekend and we did take her to visit a lot during the time off. i spoke to isabell this morning (dh drops her off) and she said ga was so happy to see her. I hope things can calm down now and we can get back to a more normal routine. and that i can actually see dh awake once in a while









ga has been freaking me out lately she speaks with the vocabulary of a 4 year old. yesterday I was talking about her going back to isabel's tomorrow and she said 'no mommy i want go to isabel's house right now!'

happy new year everyone

amy


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## **guest** (Jun 25, 2004)

Hey all. I'd love to start a group. Although I do like the layout of msn groups, they can be a pain in the butt. They are always having problems.

So, just let me know if that is ok and I'll start a group.

We are ok here. Waiting to get some money so I can buy some freakin food! ack, I'm so hungry. Ds has enough food but I don't. Oh well. I need to lose lots of weight but I really don't like the starvation diet. hahah.
I won't be able to get groceries until the end of the week. sigh.

About language skills, etc...Anton says LOTS of words but when he puts them together in a sentence, it sounds garbled most of the time. I can make sense of what he is saying most of the time but others can't. It's odd because he's good in other areas. He can count to 20, can pick out numbers, knows his alphabet and phonics....but just doesn't speak clearly in sentences. Odd.
I may ask doc about it and see if we need some 'help' with his speech.
Other than that, all is good. Poor, but good. hahahah.

And I'll admit something to the public- I am officially looking for a husband! I'm tired of being a single mom. And I really want my son to have a sibling. I'm going to be 38 this month so the clock is almost broken. hahah.

Ciao for now,
Liz


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Well, my baby doesn't talk in sentances at all yet. She doesn't know any numbers (I think), she does know some colors but no shapes. Oh well







. That's just the way she is. I'm not interested in coaching her. She'll learn on her own when she wants to. She tries to talk to me all the time though, but it's mostly gobblety-**** with some words thrown in there. Her favorites are baby, and Samaya. She will also say to me sometimes..."Mommy?" like she's going to ask me a question, but she doesn't know what to say. Should she know all the numbers, letters of the alphabet by now? Should I be worried?


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

lizc~ have you tried online dating like Lavalife?


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

GA counts to 10 and sometimes to 15 but it's not really counting she just says the numbers in order it is more like a song. she can count (ie touching something and saying a number) to about 5 sometimes 6. she knows the abc ong but the only letter she knows is 'G Georgia' all colors are green and she doesn't know any shapes I agree mamajazz about the coaching. what GA knows mostly comes from reading books to her.

Liz- I notice you are in MA I am in charlestown where are you?

Amy


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

mamas!

my housemate gave me this book called enstein never used flashcards (or something like that) and it talks about all this hype that exists to "make" smart children, and really how destructive it is for children. Joseph Chilton Pearce in The Magical Child even goes as far to say that teaching children too much linear knowledge, such as reading, too early can be damaging.
Too much, too soon has been shown to increase rates of anxiety and depression, and an aversion to learning.
just thought i'd throw that out there.

i think that if a dc teaches themself these things, that is differently. but trying to train them early takes the fun out of being a toddler. just my opinion, of course. :LOL

saying that, dd can count a bit. she likes to try and say numbers up to 10, and i try not to correct her when she says them "wrong."








she has recently been saying colors out of the blue (no pun intended). it is like she has heard us say them enough that she figured it out on her own, no coaching necessary.
she is saying mostly 2 word sentences, sometimes 3. when she is using kathrynn speak, those sentences can extend to 10-20 words w/ a few english thrown in. :LOL
lately has has begun to figure out how to say all of my housemates names. she says di-di for david, ayan for allan, momo for domo (short for domonique), yisa for lisa (yeah, she calls me by myh first name sometimes.







). the rest she can not say yet. but now taht she can say most of their names, she likes to boss them around. "Ayan, EAT!!!" "Aya, FOOD!!!" very cute stuff.

casina- i'm so sorry that you've been down in the dumps lately. i hope you can find some time for yourself one of these days.







s

i told my housemates that for my b'day (jan 8) i want to go out to eat w/ dh w/o dd and have them watch her. this is a big step for me, and her. she seems to be at the age where she really enjoys playing w/ everyone, and i don't necessarily have to be there all the time. saying that, dh and i have never had anyone else watch her w/o us being in the house or down the street at the post office, so it will be a big step for us. we don't have any money to go out to eat right now, so we wouldn't be doing this for another month probably. plenty of time to prepare, right?









it's raining raining raining here... BLAH!!!!


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## Sandrine (Apr 14, 2004)

Can I join??? I'm Sandrine. I have two beautiful girls age 2 and 9mths. Yeap 15mths apart. We are busy but we love it. They are so cute together.

DD1 was born on the 2nd of Dec. She is so funny. She is right now in the stage of imitating us. Dd2 is trying hard to crawl. So when dd2 is on her tummy and I'm trying to encourage her to come to me, dd1 comes in front of me and say "come on" with her hands out. Just like me. :LOL

Dd1 know how to count to 3 in french and to 2 in english. I'm guessing to much english t.v. lol We are raising her in french and hoping that she will be able to talk real well in french and not like some others who mix french and english in our town. or even me for that matter. She says yellow. That's all the color she knows. lol

She knows lots of words and is starting to use 2-3 words sentence but she also uses lots of DD1-language. It's funny because she will point at you and then tell you something in her language. When she is done, she shake her head yes. Like we are suppose to understand her. :LOL

Well, I'm off to read the last thread.


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Interesting discussion, because dh and I were discussing this last night (learning vs. teaching etc.) Zoom can count to three, and knows some of the other numbers. She sometimes can name colors correctly and other times they are all green :LOL she doesn't know her abcs or phonics or anything like that. My FIL and MIL are both speech paths with a LOT of experience in the school systems and working with children diagnosed as LD etc. My mil is very relaxed about dd but FIL is constantly trying to teach her when he is here. He brought her the Leap Frog Fridge Phonics yesterday and was talking about how we need to get her reading pretty soon!!! Since we only see him a few times a year we just nodded, but inside I was cringing....... I'm still not sure how I feel about the Fridge Phonics, although since she only has one other battery toy it will probably stick around a little while (until it makes me crazy!) (mil and fil are divorced by the way)

MamaJ, I don't think you should be worried at all, though I'm no expert!

Anyhow, Welcome to the group Sandrine!

Casina







for you

as for joining a private group vs. staying put, could we do both? I think for some of us who have been with this thread a while, it might be nice to have a private place to discuss things.... there are definetley times I would like to discuss something or would like to go into detail about something btu I just don't feel comfortable doing so in a public forum, kwim? On the other hand it is nice to have this thread, and with all the hits it gets im sure others enjoy our conversations :LOL

thanks for starting the new thread mamajaza

Oh and Mona, I know how you feel! We have a very hard time leaving dd too and have only done so a few times recently. She seems to be feeling more comfortable on her own for a little while. We left her with my mom for three hours two weeks ago to catch a movie and she had a blast. It didn't even phase her when we left OR when we came back :LOL i was so ready to see her and hug her but she was busy playing with her aunt (my nine year old sis) and so I had to contain myself :LOL Time before that she ended up crying about an hour after we left and my mom called us because she was just really upset so we came back. No biggy, we were just around the corner eating breakfast tacos :LOL Anyhow, it would be very nice if we had someone who could watch dd in our home, sometimes I miss having house mates.


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

hey mommas,

elwynn is starting to count.. he can sometimes count to 10 but really knows what one and two are best. sometimes when he is playing alone he startts going "six..seven..eight.nine..twelve.." he often gets most of them right and though I think he is brillaint im sure he is just average. he is very interested in colors and he does know his shapes well.. he asks me a LOT of questions these days. "why" and "soon?" when he wants to see someone he misses.. "daddy soon?" grama soon?" or "this one?" when he wants to know what color it is. he often asks questions about things that i know he knows, i guess it is just him needing reasurrance of what he knows but it sure gets irritating after a while (in a sweet way)









jazz thanks for starting the new thread








s to you mommas who aren't feeling so hot (no pun intended)

casina, maybe you are low in b vitamins i know when i am i get depressed..especially b12. there are also other good vitamins for boosting your moods naturally but i cant remember. i havnt been depressed since elwynn was born. i get in grumpy moods and hide sometimes but he is such a light in the darkness..

he's a sick kid right now but still pretty happy. yesterday he had a weird cough after he woke up where he couldnt cath his breath but it hasnt happened again. it was scarry..but he was also crying and distressed so maybe it was just all too much for him. he isnt eating much since he's been feeling yucky, but it worries me because he is so small for his age. i just dreadd him loosing any weight..its hard enuff for him to maintain 21 LBS let alone gain these days. i know i shouldnt worry..he is taller by inces but he is so thin.. the skin on his beely is loose from about 2 days of not feeling well..

i re-potted a bunch of plants and changed furnature around this morning. made potato and broccoli soup and im about to make baking powder biscuits..

talk to you all soon..










oh and elwynn has been calling me "fern momma" lately!


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## **guest** (Jun 25, 2004)

Oh my. I should have said that I'm not 'coaching' ds or anything. He just LOVES to learn this stuff with the materials we have at home. He has Fridge Phonics and I'm pretty sure that's how he got to love the alphabet so much. LOL. Numbers and shapes he learned by two books we have. The books are:
Numbers for Ten Tired Teddies
Shapes for Ten Tired Teddies.
I'm not exactly sure on the name of those books but i'm sure you can do a search.
Yes, he knows his colors and shapes but to him, it's fun. Not work. He's the one that kept asking ME what they are. He loves coloring and I think that makes a big difference too. He likes to know the name of the color he is using.
I taught at a Montessori school and so i know the importance of letting children learn at their own pace.








I also did some training at a Waldorf school and I would love to REALLY learn the Waldorf method.

Dating- I signed up on True.com but am feeling uncomfortable about having my info online. I may delete my membership. heh heh.

Amy (i think)- I live in Natick.

I need to eat.
Ciao for now,
liz


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

some new pics are up on "love is revolutionary" enjoy!








fern and elwynn


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## Trini girl (Feb 3, 2004)

well my dd is also begining to learn her numbers and alphabet. with the numbers, it's up to 5 sometimes and then other times she just skips every other number...she is a weird one. she is just getting her alphabet though, she too has a fridge phonics (got it for her b day...dec 11th). no shapes yet and some colours, with her, they're all blue...or red. she does love "reading" though. for new years eve we were at a party at a friends house, this woman has a 3 yr old girl. Ming and the little girl were playing in her room, i hear her "quarelling" so i go in there and Ming is going on and on about how there were no books to read! she kept saying "no book! i read!" when she saw me she almost cried she was so mad, she said "mommy, no book. i read mommy i read" i was like ....awww.
as for the private group, do you have to be a paying customer of msn to join a group? if so, how about we do it on yahoo?


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## hjohnson (Mar 2, 2004)

Christopher counts to himself I believe. The other day he came up to me holding two sippy cups filled with water and he said, "Momma two waters." I never hear him count so I guess he understands the concept though. He loves to sing the alphabet song with his fridge phonics. Lately though, his wooden trains have been keeping him entertained. DH and I are planning a trip to the NC Train Museum soon so Christopher can see some real choo-choos.

I am hoping to have a little more peace in the house soon. David was diagnosed with reflux today and they have put him on Zantac. I hope he gets some relief soon. It is heartbreaking to be holding your baby and he is crying and unconsolable after spitting up. Poor Christopher keeps asking me if David is OK when he is crying.


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

does anyone know how to take pictures from the computer and burn them to CD? i dont know what program to use and its driving me nuts. this computer is sketchy at best and i have so many pic's on it and i want to save them to disc before the computer dies for good.. any suggestions would be great!


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Mamajaza**
Should she know all the numbers, letters of the alphabet by now? Should I be worried?

At two, as long as she has (I believe) 10 words which can be understood by people around her about 80% of the time, and by you 95% of the time, she's probably fine. If you have other reasons to be concerned, you can have her evaluated, but she sounds ok to me.

I won't even go into where BeanBean is developmentally, having learned my lesson when I mentioned that Miss BooBah can crawl on her b-day thread.







Suffice it to say, I'm not concerned about his development.









I think BooBah is growing! She's nursing a ton! :LOL Hopefully, she'll puke less as time goes on. She's on pepcid, and it's really helped her appetite.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

mamafern~ glad your back! Loved seeing my beautiful nephew as always.

Sandrine~ Hi! are you from Quebec? My DP is from Beloiel (sp?) near montreal. He doesn't speak french to the babies much, but I sure would like it if he did. Nice to see a frenchy here







Welcome to the tribe.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Samaya has been crawling for about a week now! (a brag)


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaFern*
does anyone know how to take pictures from the computer and burn them to CD? i dont know what program to use and its driving me nuts. this computer is sketchy at best and i have so many pic's on it and i want to save them to disc before the computer dies for good.. any suggestions would be great!

i use Nero. it's very simple, pretty much self explanitory. we got it when we got our burner.









i burned pictures for MIL for xmas. she had them all on her computer, so what I did was upload them all to shutterfly, then when I got home I saved them from the net, sorting as I went, into a single folder (with many sub-folders). then i opened Nero, dragged the single folder (which I left on the desktop) into the file area, and burned.







very simple, and the burntime was very short (less than a minute). the only thing which floored me was that with all those pictures (about 1800), it only took up a tenth of the space on the cd! :LOL


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

Heather-

I am sure you have already tried this but just in case ... GA was diagnosed with reflux as well and it turned out to be an allergy to milk proteins. I had to cut out everything with casien, whey and a ton of other chemical sounding indgredients from my diet completely. When I did she was much better. We tried this b/c both my brother and I have migraines from Zantac and I didn't want to give it to her.

I introduced dairy back into my diet when she was 10 months with no problem but she still cannot have it. They say she will probably outgrow it. We test every few months but it still bothers her system. Now it is 'mommy my bebby huts' instead of spitting up.

Amy


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## **guest** (Jun 25, 2004)

My son was a relatively 'late' walker. He walked unassisted at almost 13 months old. heh heh. I knew people that had kids who were walking at 8 months old. It freaked me out. I was beginning to think there was something wrong with me or my ds! LOL.
I have found that it really does not matter how soon they do things as an infant/toddler because it doesn't seem to make a difference when they are older.
For example, my older brother was potty trained and oh so independant by age 1.... He ended up dropping out of school and is quite dyslexic. He still can't read well.
My sister potty trained by age 1, read at a young age...And never went to college. She did awful in school.
I learned to walk on my own at 18 months old (so my mother claims). I took classes but never went to proper college...BUT, I have a very analytical mind, a photographic memory and a high IQ. Well, the IQ part I highly question. rofl. I don't trust tests. And ever since I got pregnant, my brain is mush.

So, in the end....It's all crap. roflmbo! Yeah, we get proud of our kids...But they are all the same on the inside.

We are all spiritual Beings having a Human experience.
:LOL

Peace,
Liz


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

i think im goona throw this computer out the window soon!


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

okay..ive figured it out~! all is not lost. i wont throw it out the window just yet.

i guess i was just freaking out because there are a lot of special momories in the form of pictures on this computer.

rynna: thanks.

jazz, i put all of your pic's on the disc too and i'll mail you a copy if you want.. its got all the pic's from the entire computer on it, for safe keeping. i hope you dont mind that i put your pictures on it too but i didnt want you to loose your pictures either if the computer breaks for good..although it seems to be happier since we moved it to a different room







s computers never fail to amaze and frustrate me.

ak. its 10:00 and elwynn still isn't asleep. i should go and " nurse..milk..okay?" as he calls it right now. what a funny bunny.

night all.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

hello. i'm catching up here.
the depression here ain't that bad. i'm too old to go psycho. i'm back on track with my rainbow light prenatals. i suppose i should be more diligent when i am recommending them to everyone as it is. ironically, it is that i feel comfortable enough in life to want some time and less responsibility for myself, and some of my control is different since dh started working less for the holidays. i also get the feeling that my body is trying to get pg and the iud is working. ruby is the oldest baby i have ever had only because i have working birth control and i have mixed feelings.
meanwhile, i'm in a whirlwind to get my house palatable for clay's birthday party on saturday. my house has been a big thorn for awhile. i've learned to ignore it for the sake of the kids and my sanity trying to do too much but my perfectionism lashes out. i know it really doesn't matter what shape the house is in but it is so grubby that other kids have commented and people are clearly uncomfortable with how disgusting it is. i know i am. ruby is learning more and more bad habits from the boys and it makes me frustrated. oh well. thanks for letting me dump a little.

good luck with the learning......my goals have nothing to do with letters.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

i find it amusing that my grumpy post was number 666. i'm surprised it is not eliminated like the thirteenth floor.


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## saritasmile (Sep 5, 2004)

Hi mama's! i'm definetly on the he can learn to read, etc. later. my dp's mom was the first to tell me that idea. that's great to know of a book about it. i don't discourage any learning, i just don't focus on it. razi can count to 4, but his favorite things to count are mama's 2 dees. :LOL
it's snowing here right now and there's that beautiful orangy glow reflection in the sky. part of a big tree fell into our backyard too! tonight ds and dp made a snowman in the front but razi kept eating the things they were using as a face. it was very funny (i was watching from inside where it was warm







)

okay time for bed!!!


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## hotmamacita (Sep 25, 2002)




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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

eilowny- in refernce to this:

" I won't even go into where BeanBean is developmentally, having learned my lesson when I mentioned that Miss BooBah can crawl on her b-day thread. Suffice it to say, I'm not concerned about his development."

I think we all pretty much know that our babes develop differently, and beginings do not determine outcomes. So feel free to tell us what BeanBean is up to. I remember from your earlier posts that he was way "ahead" of your typical 2 yr old.







I for one find it interesting just how wide the spectrum.


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

i totally agree mona the spectrum is so wide for these things. GA didn't walk until she was 15 months yet she talks in complete sentences now and had more than 20 words at one year. She is just now starting to show interest in climbing and only leanred to jump from standing without holding on about a month ago. her best buddie has been walking since 10 months! GA learned to crawl at 10 months!

GA had a great first day back at daycare yesterday. I am so releaved. She even took a 2.5 hour nap! We had a great stress free evening just playing together and nursing a lot. And she was happy to go again today. I hope this continues.

Amy


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

i think its crazy that our world tries to squish everyone into these boxes of how we should look, be, act..of course every child and adult and human is going to be different and develop in different ways and times.

i get frustrated because elwynn is so small for his age. strangers thinks he is this brilliant 1 or 1 1/2 year old..but you know what else bothers me the most? i cant go out of the house without at least one person telling me how absolutely beactiful he is..and i know that he is and i agree!, but why is that the most important thing to people? if i had a baby who was average or even funny looking why shouldnt people tell them that they are beautiful too.. i would, because they would be beautiful to me. most of my life i have felt ugly..elwynn makes me feel beautiful because wow i created this amazing beautiful being, but i am beautiful..maybe not in the blonde, anorexic, waiflike model way but in my own way. i hope that he doesn't grow up thinking that that is why people like or dislike him.

i remember a friend in high school telling me that she wished that she wasn't so beautiful because everyone wanted to be her friend because she was, but no one cared who she was on the inside and it made me feel so sad for her and guilty too because i always though, if only i could be as lovely as her my life would be perfect. the boys always wanted to be her boyfriend, but always treated her like crap...so beaing beautiful sure isn't everything..

anyways, enuff of my ranting. you are all beautiful and so are your kids and dont ever let anyone tell you otherwise!


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Well, I will continue to post about Julianna's development from time to time in this thread because the "Jan/Feb '03" threads keep dying out so there's no other place to brag! If you don't want to read about it you can just scan through it.







At 23 months, she hardly talks at all. She has some signs and words that she uses consistently, but mostly she still points and grunts. If I teach her something new and she can't say it, she'll sign it- and if she can't sign it she'll try to say it! This worked for cookie- she made a really good sign of it the other day. And she couldn't make the sign for down, so she said it! I was proud of her since she prefers signing over talking!







Sometimes when she's frustrated and stomping both feet I'll ask her what she wants and she'll wave her hands around franctically like she's trying to sign something! Too cute! :LOL

Zachary knows his colors. For the longest time he called yellow "cheese" and we thought that was hilarious! :LOL He says it now and it sounds like "geelow". He likes to sing along with the alphabet song but he says "e-e-e-e-e" and then "ooh- r- s" over and over. He doesn't know the names of any shapes, but he loves playing with his shape sorter and holding them up for me to name before he drops them in. He likes to count "1, 2, 8, 10!!!", and ten is said with real excitement. I think he got that from Julianna being 1, him being 2, Crystal being 8, and the 10 is just put on the end for good measure. (?) If I ask him how old he is he'll say "two" and hold up one index finger on each hand since he doesn't yet have the dexterity to make a peace sign. If you ask Julianna how old she is she'll silently hold up one finger.







They say a lot by saying nothing at all, don't they???

It's been raining her for three dyas, and I think I finally see a little sky through the clouds. The rain doesn't make me depressed- since we live in the desert we LOVE any rain we get and it actually lifts my spirits. But I went out and bought some new houseplants anyway! Plants make me so happy, I love them. They are my antidepressents. That and cooking. (I made some chicken chili and some apply crisp yesterday...) My mom and my best friend and I went to the casino on my birthday and I won $500, so I think I'm going to treat myself to a day of skiing this week. All this rain is snow in the mountains so I'm sure it will be beautiful!!! Happy (soon) birthday, Lisa!









Zachary is addicted to this one episode of Reading Rainbow about airplanes. He calls is "bainbow a-panes". We had in on the TiVo in the living room, but DH just transferred it to a VHS so the kids could watch it on the other TV so we could get a break from it. I swear to Goddess he watched it 10 times yesterday. He even fell asleep in my rocking chair watching it! :LOL


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

For those of you who are interested
http://groups.msn.com/NovDec2002Fami...iends/homepage

Go to that page and apply to join and I will approve you. This will be a tightly moderated group, and non-posting lurkers will be deleted (for security purposes). This is a private group that is not listed in the group directory, and everyone has to be approved to join and view posts and pictures. We can continue to post here of course, and if there's no interest in this group or if it doesn't work out it's no big deal, we'll just stay at MDC!


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

geez ladies this has been a busy thread in the last twenty four hours!

I would just like to say I like to hear about all y'alls babes, i feel close enough to most of you that I love to hear about your other children and what they are doing







So brag away mamas, and feel free to share your concerns too. Well, that's the way I feel anyway.

Leah, I really like the way you set the msn group up. Thank you.


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## Bethkm (Jun 27, 2003)

I love hearing about all your babes! Tyson has an amazing vocab, talking in complete sentances for months now. He's getting some pretty complex concepts down as well like, "remember mom, remember we went to Grandma's house?" and stuff like that. He also understands the concept of tomorrow which I find huge. He counts to 13 and sometimes just names numbers all our of order. He doesn't know any letters and knows a few shapes.

I find it interesting that Tyson was at the late end of normal for walking (15 months) and has always been slow with his physical development. It's like his body chose verbal development over physical. Poeple often comment at how clearly he talks and how much he talks. We have very few tantrums here and I think his verbal skills are a big part of that. I often remind him to tell me what's wrong and he does and then his problem is solved one way or another.

Whoever said it is right though, it doesn't matter at what pace they learn all this stuff. I was so stressed about T not walking around a year, just being tired of carrying him mostly, but now he walks like everyone else and it doesn't matter when he first did it. I really haven't taught him anything, physcial or otherwise, he picks things up from being around us, our conversations, and from being read to a lot. They are such sponges!


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

Leah, thanks so much for setting that up! it was confusing enuff regestering..im not very computer literate.


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

I'm sorry if it's confusing Fern! This is kind of a trial group, if it's too hard or it doesn't work out we'll bag the idea.

I'm (eventually) going to try to find the e-mail adddres for lilmiss'mama so I can invite her to the goup. Anyone notice if kerc still get's on here?

I will approve you ladies as soon as I can, Zachary is putting his Mac and Cheese into his water cup, and pouring it back into the bowl... I have dial-up and the internet is S-L-O-W right now...


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Oh! I miss lilmissmama







I think about her and her girls and hope they are doing well...

haven't seen kerc in ages, or xmas eve either


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

leah, dd loves to put food into her water. and then take it out. and then put it back.
gotta love repetition


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

click here http://www.mothering.com/discussions/member.php?u=2513 and you can choose to send a message via email to lilmissmomma. it doesn't give her email address though

Amy


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## saritasmile (Sep 5, 2004)

Mama Fern- i thought of a great bonus to having a smaller babe that people think is under 2 yrs. we just shelled out $300 for a plane ticket just for razi since he doesn't qualify for free now. so if you flew somewhere, he could still be free :LOL ! i think about a month ago we could have done that but he suddenly got taller and is talking fairly clearly. his teeth also got bigger and i think that makes a difference. he's still pretty skinny tho, 24 lbs i think.

Leah, it is snowing like crazy here!!! we have to wait for the plow to even get our car out. tav is outside building a snow slide, he's been out there for over 2 hours 'perfecting' the slide







we got in a minor fender bender yesterday cuz the roads are so slick and this dumb woman was going too fast and couldn't stop. razi was in the car and it really scared me! but i'm sure that snowbowl is going to be just lovely for skiiing.

well i'll try the new msn thing but i'm a computer retard as well and am a little 'nervous' hehehe.

i'm so frustrated mamas! razi has a little friend about his age that has got a pretty bad biting problem. it's hard cuz they've know eachother since they were just a few months old. now when they hang out razi cringes when the little boy comes near.







and razi has developed a bit of biting that i think he learned from him. anyway just ranting, he just bit razi about an hour ago so i'm still feeling







: i don't want to ostrisize this mama but i also want razi to feel safe and not learn that biting is something to do, yk?


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

biting is normal. that's actually what front teeth are for in animals. sure, they tear food too but that is our primary defense mechanism. it's hard dealing with habits that our kids pick up. know that if they do, they are just experimenting. if we had the village they would have all those habits around all the time and it wouldn't surprise us so. we can diffuse some of the world and block out other parts but the world is out there. i have learned the hard way that the usual recourse is to cease hanging out with the child, which punishes the moms the most. it is temporary but a year or two not seeing a family you like can be hard. generally, no attention whatsoever will work better than giving attention. also try redirection. when we hear "no biting", we mainly hear the word biting. try giving them something they can bite, and say bite this. if that makes you feel uncomfortable, show them something else like petting your arm or kissing it. it needs to be right there for the redirection to stick. i tolerated licking sometimes in exchange for biting.
biting starts as just an expression of frustration considering we start as oral learning non verbal creatures. getting mad does happen, and we should be allowed to be mad but our actions should be respectful. however, 2s and others have limitations and we should heed those limitations and offer guidance. they have no prior concept of violence whatsoever and our horror stricken looks can be very entertaining. ruby bites me because it is fun. she bites the boys even more because they yelp.

it's not totally the mom's fault. what i do when my kids are the victim are that i promptly go comfort them until they feel better. then i make no mention (unless they are much older and i can instill different strategy for next time). i have also learned the hard way that i cannot comfort the victim if my child was the aggressor. it it inflates the learning shame into anger instead with my child and breaches my love line with my child to the point that they are mad at me instead of understanding that they were part of the problem. that has also made me the bad mamma in many people's eyes. i can say, i'm sorry that happenned to the victim and mamma. but my efforts at requiring my child to apologize or comfort against their will usually backfire. many times my older kids have apologized sincerely much later, and made retribution offers. ostracizing usually doesn't make anyone feel good and can worsen the actual behaviour because things got so exciting.

but i do parent differently. it just my world i'm talking about!

fern, i understand your rant about the beautiful children and i'm still hearing it after six years. it helps if you look at the cross section of kids in this world. some are not so beautiful due to how they are parented. i think people just want to acknowledge something they see as wonderful but don't know how to express it, like "i'm so glad i saw your child today because it makes my day better". the other thing that bugs me is talking about the kids like they don't understand. but in this paranoid world, that is considered the norm since some people don't want you to talk to their kids.....


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

*nods* and i know that people mean it as a compliment..i just know the other parts to the story.. thanks casina.









we just went to the heath food store in town and i ended up with six bags (20$$ worth) of organic salad greens that were a bit on the slimy side-for free! ive been craving salad. i ate almost an entire lettuce yesterday but it wasnt as yummy as the mixed greens. mm. i made a nice vinagrette and timothy and i ate that for lunch. what a feast. it turns out the greens were mostly fine only about 2% were too slimy to eat. i love free stuff. it makes buying things seem so much better when they give you stuff once in a while.and we will be having salad for supper too.. woohoo!









saritasmile: good point!









DecemberSun: no worries! ill figure it out. i already posted a message! it wasnt so hard afterall.







thanks again fer setting it up.

as for the biting thing..elwynn was into biting for a while. it was mostly in reaction to haeven being a bit rough with him. i guess because she was so much bigger biting was really his ownly defense. they loved each other and im sure miss eachother but really brought out eachothers bad sides! he only tried to bite another kid once at a LLL meeting.. and hasn't for a long time. i gave him time outs everytime he did it and i think he figured out that there are better ways of expressing anger like ..shouting.

i wonder how they would be together now since they havent seen eachother in a while and since they have grown up a bit.

i wonder what it would look like to have all of our 2 years olds together in one room.. would it be harmony or chaos!?
:LOL


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Hey Fern what a score







I have been craving salad too







I'm drooling just thinking about it. We will be getting some money for food tomorrow and I can't wait to go to the store adn stock up (I totally feel for you lizc btw) Definetley will be getting salad stuff.

Casina I always love your posts. I wish we lived near eachother, I think you would be an awesome influence on my parenting.

I would so love if all of our two year olds could get togther! im betting it would be a mixture of harmony and chaos. Dd would spend at least the first half of the time clinging to me. Too much stimuli and too many new people. But wouldn't it be wonderful too









oh yeah and as for the biting, dd went through a biting phase, though only ever bit me and dh. We tried explaining but that didn't really sink in. What seemed to work was whenever she bit we gave her this teething necklace for her to bite instead.

Gotta run little one is melting down.


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

this biting issue is close to my heart. GA is the agressive one in our playgroup. all of the momma's are more mainstream than i am but still somewhat crunchy. GA doesn't bite but she grabs kids faces HARD. she has drawn blood. it seems to be the kids she likes the most too. it has been going on for months (amazing they still want to play with us at all







) lately it seems to be getting better or maybe i am better at anticipating when it will happen. now i am working on trying to not make it mean i am a bad parent .... also most of the other mom's are stay at home and that adds to my guilt.

amy


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

carrie, i wish that i could send some of my greens to you! ive eaten so much salad today i could burst! it feels good..but there is still more and the sorting out of slimy bits in cold water that makes my hands feel like they will fall of isn't too much fun..

im having a hard time getting motivated. my house is a mess..except elwynn's rooms and the bathroom which for some reason i keep clean without thinking about..but oh my. the kitchen is a disaster. timothy cleans it most everyday and it always ends up messy again and i always say ill do it this time but then i sit down with a book and i cant get up! we have been watching tv too.. which is bad. its amazing how it sucks you in..we have free cable. and elwynn loves cartoons.. i feel like its okay for him to watch a bit but lately ive been putting him in front of the tv when he asks me, which in my opinion is far too often.. my excuse..he's sick and clingy and in order to get anything done (including pee) without him stuck to me i have to distract him and tv sure does ditract. i feel like we should be 100% tv free. but its nice sometimes too to cuddle up and enjoy a show. blah. anyone else have problems with this or suggestions..its pretty much the only "bad" unethical thing we do (except eat chocolate) and i think i shouldnt make a big deal about it..and its winter and cold and very little sunlight. i just really dont know what to do with all of our time these days.


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## saritasmile (Sep 5, 2004)

amy-







it is so hard!! i feel like i've been on both sides. this issue w/ the little friend has been going on for quite awhile and he lately had been better and for some reason not the last 2 days. it's weird cuz there is another friend we both play w/ and he's never bitten him.
anyway thanks casina for your words. i definetly think my friend suffers the most. i've seen her crying and i know it has got to be so hard. i've been really trying to stick w/ her and give support but it's really hard to see your sweet child cringe when he comes near him and then later act aggressive to another friend,yk? ugh, what a hard thing...

mamafern, we are having a tv thing going on too. my dp rented a yoga for kids video from the library and razi is always asking to watch it. it's actually not a very good video either. the only tv we watch is movies after razi goes to bed. i think in the last 2 weeks razi has watched more tv than the rest of his life together. i really don't want him to watch any. if i had my way we wouldn't even have a tv. (i turn into a mush brain zombie when it's on) i don't know sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do (like pee) i guess certain circumstances apply but if i feel like i want to turn it on then i think i really need to get more creative, go outside, read a book, or draw, or cut wooden veggies. i've found that playdough can do some good distracting as well. i save it for special occations









it's been snowing a ton here in northern arizona!!?? i had to wait for a plow to do our driveway before going to the store and then, as i was getting all the snow off the car, one of those huge tractor plows plowed the road and blocked my driveway! i was so mad i actually tried to run after it!! :LOL so then i had to shovel out a path for the car. i felt really strong and was really glad i wasn't some wimpy girl who didn't want to break a nail or something. i think it's the first time i really had to 'work' to get to food.


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## Sandrine (Apr 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Mamajaza**
Sandrine~ Hi! are you from Quebec? My DP is from Beloiel (sp?) near montreal. He doesn't speak french to the babies much, but I sure would like it if he did. Nice to see a frenchy here







Welcome to the tribe.


MamaJaza: I'm in Northern Ontario. It can get real cold and real hot in the summer. It's a nice part of Ontario with lots of trees and forests.

Thanks for the welcome everyone.

baby crying, i'll be back.


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## **guest** (Jun 25, 2004)

Good morning.

Well, it's snowing and is going to keep on snowing through the end of tomorrow. Looks like we'll be stuck inside for a couple of days.
I can't really afford it but I may have to Stop & Shop Peapod delivery since I can't get to the store. I'm just about out of food so I really need to figure something out! eek!
I'm very sleepy today. Ds woke up a million times last night and he kept hogging the bed. I can't wait til he naps...I'll probably sleep too!

Hmm, sure wish I had a good book or two to read. At least I have my tea. heh.

Hope you all have a good day! I'll try to check in again later. It's so hard for me to get online much these days.

Ciao,
Liz


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

It's been sleeting here, and a bit of freezing rain, my all-time least favorite kind of weather.







Yich.

Mr. BeanBean did something last night which I've never seen him do before: he put his own pants on! One leg in each, even. I was very impressed







. He loves cars and trucks and tractor-trailers, and writing on himself with markers.







He's also extremely fond of % symbols, and recognizes "100%" and "50%" but only knows that 50% means something isn't finished/full/complete and 100% means that it is. Whenever he sees the % he asks "what percent is it?" He's also asking about words-- "what does that say?" --all the time. He knows that the individual letters make sounds, but I don't think he's quite gathered that letter=sound and many letters=many sounds=words, but he's working on it. BeanBean is very much into coloring these days; on himself, especially, but also on paper, in books, on walls, and on his sister.









In other words, he's a very smart kid, but he's still two. :LOL

If he doesn't understand why, he'll ask and if he doesn't get a satisfactory answer he'll do it anyway, which is why he swallowed the penny, why he insisted on playing with candle flames, why he had to help wipe BooBah when she had poopy pants... nothing fatal, as of yet, but he's really pushing things now. He's also asking to nurse about every fifteen minutes.







I think that's part of the huge developmental leaps he's making; he needs to nurse because his brain and body are moving so quickly that he's got to comfort himself and slow down sometimes. I have managed to get him to suck his thumb, but it's a very temporary solution for him.

Hm. He's putting on a pair of jeans right now. Trouble is, he's not wearing any underwear.







: His cousin is trying to convince him to put on underwear. "They're my pants! I don't want my pants off!" :LOL I'd better go.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

:LOL Rynna!!
my dd just tried yesterday putting pants on. and she did it again today. very exciting.








dd doesn't wear underwear at all.


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

mommas the universe seems to be telling me not to work







I was back at work exactly ONE day and today I had jury duty and guess what ...that's right I am now a juror







:

I am trying not to be too pissed off b/c I really do think it is my civic duty to do this ....but for christ sakes ONE DAY of work!

anyway off to get some work done ...probably into the wee hours .....









Amy


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

Amy, try to remember that these things happen for a reason!

well the MSN group is up and running. jasanna started a picture page and i added one of elwynn, so put up your pics so we can see the nov/dec 02 babe's all together!

i baked today! carrot muffins...and i made baking powder biscuits yesterday. i think im baking because the house is cold more than anything but the yummy smells and warm out of the oven food is nice too. elwynn loves carrot muffins.its all he has eaten today except a tiny bowl of annies macandcheese, most of which ended up on the floor







:

on a happier note, i borrowed my aunties juicer today and bought a huge bag of organic carrots, apples and ginger. im going to dose us all up with fresh juice tomorow Am and see how we feel. when we were in voctoria we had fresh juice everyday and elwynn LOVED it.

while elwynn napped today my auntie and i went out on the town..well, we went to the thrift store in twon..i found a book and some envelopes and writing paper with little mushrooms and ferns on them. anyone want a letter? elwynn and i are all ready. send us your addresses and we will send you random bits of paper and pocket lint and maybe even some drawings and words if you are lucky.









eilonwy: i think elwynn and eli would be a great team! the tiny bum boys. elwynn cant wear any of his pants without two pairs of undies or a diaper, they just fall offr.. he's been wearing a lot of dresses lately, much to many people's dismay







but i think he looks rather cute and so does his dad!!


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Fern-- I think that'd be quite a sight! I know that in a room full of toddlers, even if the room was quiet when we walked it it would soon be very chaotic with BeanBean in it. He's chaotic in a room all by himself most of the time.

Anyone ever hear of an easy baby becoming a seriously spirited toddler? :LOL

As to dresses, well, BeanBean doesn't wear them. Mostly because my mom would have a heart attack, and because he's very pretty already. Even in denim overalls and a seriously masculine shirt, people mistake him for a girl. I guess it's the hair, and the pretty eyes, but really!

Oh, I wanted to talk about that-- people frequently come up to me on the street and tell me that BeanBean is beautiful. I'm okay with this, even though I also grew up feeling very ugly. I think it's because when someone says a child is beautiful, I don't feel like they're passing judgement on me (the way I do when people remark on how advanced he is for his age). They're just admiring something pretty, and that's okay. He *is* beautiful and yes, I do know it, but it's not something for me to be particularly proud of because it's not something that I did or caused to be-- it's just the way he is, and it comes with it's own pro's and con's which he'll have to learn as he gets older.

It does bother me when people tell me how pretty BooBah is, though, because they rarely say "Oh, she's lovely!" they say "Wow, she has the most beautiful eyes, they're the bluest eyes I've ever seen..." followed by "where did they come from?" or "do you think they'll change?" One person even said "she has such beautiful eyes, but will they stay beautiful?" I almost slapped her; "of course they'll stay beautiful, but they might not stay blue." I told her, very coldly.














I don't like the fact that blue eyes are so highly prized in our society, it gets my shorts in a twist for a variety of reasons. I wish they'd just tell me she's cute and leave it at that.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Mamajaza**
Loved seeing my beautiful nephew as always.


Is this talk about calling him beautiful cause of me, fern? I didn't think it was an insult to call a baby beautiful.


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## saritasmile (Sep 5, 2004)

i can't figure out how to get to the msn thing. it says i haven't been approved yet?


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

jazz, Totally not!! to tell you the truth i didnt even see that part of the original post..im not sure why..but no! thanks for what you said, truly!

its not about people who elwynn knows and loves telling him he's beautiful, because i think that everyone should be told that they are beautiful..i just get frustrated when i get bombarded with this while walking in town and smelly ladies in fur coats try to touch his face!! ak!

gosh, i love elwynn in dresses! he likes them too! he looks in the mirror and says "pitty!" he likes his hair up in a pony tail too..







byt im not worried, he is so much a boy on the inside and soon he will say momma, i dont want to wear dresses anymore and ill say ok!


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## saritasmile (Sep 5, 2004)

eilonwy, awhile back you posted that your sling broke. i was wondering what kind you had. i was just thinking that if that ever happend to a sling i sold someone that i would fix, replace, repair, whatever for free. maybe you could ask whoever made your sling to fix or replace it. i would do that no matter how long ago someone bought it. rings just shouldn't break! i was just thinking that while i was nursing razi back to sleep.


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Hey mamas! I didn't even know a new thread was started. How embarrassing! I'm trying hard to keep up with everything lately... *sigh* LOL! Just popping in to say "hey". I see you got a group going...what's the link so I don't have to wade through a few pages of posts to find it? TIA!


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

My sling broke, too, a few months ago. I've just been making do with other things, but I'd really like to have a well-made sling. Could I buy one off one of ya ladies (casina, saritasmile)? I'm pretty picky about fabric, though, so if you posted pics, that'd be easier for me.









How come no one is posting on the msn group yet, BTW?


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Mamajaza**
How come no one is posting on the msn group yet, BTW?

well, i don't have time.







but i read everything at the end of the day or in the morning.
also, do we want to maintain this thread, and keep msn for really private stuff?


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

My sling was a hand-me-down, so I have no idea how old it actually was. The fabric actually held up for quite a while..









BeanBean likes ponytails, too; they keep his hair out of his eyes and that's all good.









MDC is not only crawling really freaking slowly, it's also causing me to disconnect from the internet every few minutes.







: How very irritating!


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## saritasmile (Sep 5, 2004)

mamajaza, let me just figure out how to send a picture to you. (i'm really computer retarded, it's why i don't have a website yet) i'll send you a pm!

i haven't used msn cuz it's keeps telling me i haven't been approved to join. won't let me in??

i'm going to spokane for a week on sunday and i wrote in the tribal area forum looking to have some playtime. anyway lots of mdc mama in spokane and they're putting together a big playgroup! i'm so excited to meet a whole bunch of mdc moms!


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

we just woke up and our world is covered by a blanket of soft white snow... the flakes falling are fat and there seems to be no end in sight. i love the snow! elwynn wants to build a "gnome man" as he calls snow man.. he is in a sad mood today so i should go snuggle him.

talk to you mommas later.


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## **guest** (Jun 25, 2004)

We have lots of snow. Been stuck inside for 2 days. Well, actually, I had to go out to clean my car off and move it. I live in an apt complex and they make us move our cars by 10am when it snows. So, I told them they had to watch my son while I went outside. rofl.

I must say that I don't like winter. heh. Am wondering where the perfect place to live is. No colder than 50, not hotter than 80. Ahh, perfect.









Oh, ds woke up from his nap and I swear he grew a whole inch in two hours. rofl.

Ciao for now,
Liz


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

is there such a perfect place? maybe florida..no wait tropical storms... it rarely snows here.. i guess thats why it feels so nice. eveything looks prettier with snow on it..even the ugliest city looks lovely when it snows.

as for your child growing while napping..im sure elwynn does this too..!


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lizc*
I must say that I don't like winter. heh. Am wondering where the perfect place to live is. No colder than 50, not hotter than 80. Ahh, perfect.










sounds like my hometown san francisco 50-70 everyday perfect weather

Amy


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

we visited some family in the san fran area last summer and the weather was very nice









I have definetley noticed Zoom grows during sleep. It's amazing. She will wake up one morning bigger and more mature cognitively. it blows my mind every time.

did i mention she is suddenly speaking in sentences??


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

I wasn't approved for the MSN group last time I checked... though I haven't checked today.









Miss BooBah goes to sleep sometimes and wakes up bigger, and I can remember BeanBean doing it when he was small, too. I remember one time I put him to sleep and all of his clothing fit him just fine, and when he woke up in the morning it was all too small, right down to the diaper! He had red marks all over his body from where the clothing had been too tight, and his shirt was really hard to get off when it had gone one easily. I learned my lesson, though, and I try very hard not to put BooBah to bed in anything that's even close!









So I had Mike take "It's Perfectly Normal" out of the library for ChibiChibi. She says that the book is very interesting and also "totally not normal! It's not normal to show penises and vaginas in books!"







: Must be nice to be seven sometimes. :LOL


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

MDC is S-L-O-W today, and very irriitating...

I'm sorry I have been MIA the past few days, and I finally approved everyone for the msn group who hadn't been approved yet. We have all the regulars except casina and *solsticemama*, and I approved one member who we don't know yet- I'm sorry I forgot her name, she's the Frenchy Canadian...








I think the msn group should be used when we want to say something personal, or when MDC is down, or really slow, or whenever you feel like it. If you don't want to use it, you don't have to, this group should stay up and running forever and ever.

The laundry is piling up here, even though I've been doing some every day... I HATE laundry, and that's my job (DH's is unloading and loading the dishwasher). It's been raining and raining here the past few days (we get rain in the desert insetad of snow) so we have mud and dirt and yucky stuff tracked through our house from the dogs and kids... I hate sweeping and vaccuming too... :LOL I'm feeling down today for some reason, and the kids are really picking up on it 'cause they're whiney and agitated too. I'm going to head out to Curves, cook a nice chicken soup, and re-pot something to brighten my mood!









About TV: I let my kids watch it.







: Mostly they watch PBS (Caillou, Reading Rainbow, Sesame Street, Mr. Rogers, Thomas and Freinds) but I'll put Disney on ocassionally for Stanley, The Wiggles or Bear in the Big Blue House. Zachary has a thing for planes so he likes the Koala Brothers sometimes too. Mostly they watch videos over and over and OVER again. And I know it's not good to have it on as background noise, but they mostly play with the TV on in the background... They usually watch in the AM while I'm getting Crystal ready for school, and in the evening to wind down before bed. I think it's ok for them to have their favorite characters- they're changing all the time. I think *I* need to watch less TV, but I'm not worried about the kiddos just yet. I need to be a good influence on them!

And that gets me thinking about cussing... I admit that when I'm angy I have a potty mouth. Zachary is now saying "shub up!" every now and then. I'm worried he'll pick up something worse, so I am REALLY trying to say "nice words".

Talk to you later, ladies!


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

today has been a weird day.. yesterday elwynn's dad and i hade a huge fight, including physical violence, so..needless to say our relationship is over. he is gone, but wants to come get his stuff.. i dont want to see him and i sure dont want elwynn seeing him. it was really traumatic for both of us..im still shaken up about it.

anyways, ive finally got the house cleaned up and dipers washed so i feel better about that. its still snowing and i tried to take elwynn out to play but he said he was cold and cried, so in we came. he is watching cartoons







i want to out but it means getting elwynn all bundled up and walking in snow drifts and getting all soggy, so i think we will have a quiet at home day and try to figure stuff out.

why does life always have to be so friggin hard?


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

mamafern- i am so sorry. that is horrible. big hugs to you and elwynn.
can you find a way to be gone when he comes for his stuff? or have it taken some place else? i would not let him in. i don't care what the circumstances are, violence is evil. grrr i am upset.
anyway, please be gentle w/ yourself, but not w/ your boundries w/ you ex.
big hugs to you......








and







s


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

I'm sorry!


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Oh Fern, I am so so so sorry for you and Elwynn





















I am so sad for you too. You guys take care, lots of hugs and love from here.


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

s mamafern, hoping things unfold harmoniously for you all

We've been having computer issues so I haven't been able to get online in several days. This is a fast thread, mamas. Just wanted to check in and say







. I'll be heading over to the msn group soon.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

As you all know, fern's partner is my brother, so this is a personal issue for me too. I do know that there are two sides to every story, though, and I don't think it's right to not let tim see elwynn because of what happened. It's never a good idea to use children as pawns.
I've fought a lot of (physical)fights with my bro when we were kids, so I know how he can be.
So sorry fern, that you are going through this.


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

fern ...thinking about you


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## saritasmile (Sep 5, 2004)

i'm sorry mama! seems like a hard situation for everyone...









i went to my 'doctor' today and i'm already feeling so much better and not so fragile about to get sick. starting tomarrow i'm doing 5 min. of yoga and breathing while razi naps. it is snowing again! we've got broken branches dangling over our power line. some people had no power for a day and a half!


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

i wrote a long reply but the computer froze..so i guess i wasnt supposed to say what i wrote.. anyways tim came and went..he saw elwynn and left with tears in his eyes. i feel pretty detatched, but i know how i would feel if i was leaving elwynn wihout knwing how long i would be away from him.

i told him he can see elwynn anytime, but i get a feeling he will be away for a while

thanks mommas..


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

, for Elwynn, who probably doesn't "get it" really well right now.









I've had a very long day. BeanBean was extra spirited today, and I worked really hard to calm myself down but I didn't do all that well.







I did make a good effort, I just really think I should have done better. At any rate, he finally went to sleep tonight shortly after 2 am. I'm not proud of myself, but I smoked a clove today in an effort to calm myself.







It worked, I felt a lot better afterwards, and of course I smoked outside (my niece would have a heart attack if she saw me smoking, even a clove!) and away from the kids. *sigh* I'm working on it.

I took the kids to services tonight. It was... an experience. :LOL


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

must have been in the air. it took dd forever to fall asleep last night, and then she woke up at 6, ready for the world. sigh

Welcome back Rose!! i was wondering what happened to you.









How are you doing today Mama Fern?


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

we are doing okay,

our computer keeps freezing so every time i try to post i loose what i say..so we walked in a blizzard to go to the library...for a break and for a computer to use.. the only problem is that elwynn gets crazy at the library so i never have very long.. right now he is looking through a yellow pages at trucks and diggers.. wityh all of the books here, he wants to look at the yellow pages..







s

i woke up super early today and felt weird. i made a cup of tea and just wated the wind blow everything around. i keel like thats whats going on in me and im just going to have to weather the storm till things settle and i figgure out what to do..

im applying to a bunch of housing co-ops in vancouver.. maybe if i get accepted to one ill move there..i feel like mission (where i am) doesnt have much for me.. i like it here, but im lonely.

anyways today elwynn and i are going to take the bus to the next twon over and go for an adventure.. im not sure what we are going to find, but it will keep us busy anyways.. elwynn likes buses. he calls them all "school bus"


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

nak
but just wanted to say thatb having a support system would definetly be helpful.
glad you are doing doing doing...... movement is a good thing, yk?

big hugs to you both, and enjoy the school bus!!!!


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## Sandrine (Apr 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DecemberSun*
We have all the regulars except casina and *solsticemama*, and I approved one member who we don't know yet- I'm sorry I forgot her name, she's the Frenchy Canadian...









LOL LOL Frenchy Canadian. :LOL :LOL Hey i now have a new nickname. Thanks

Mamafern ~







Sorry for what you are going thru. It must be hard. I hope things get better for you.

Mamajaza ~ it must be hard on you too.







It not easy to be relate to someone who is seperating/leaving from his family.

Dd1-Jasmine is not in a great mood this past few days. She moody. Just what I need, Me and her in a similar mood.







I'm moody because I don't get enough sleep but her, I don't know. It's probably her teeth. She's missing her eye teeth and maybe more molars. How many molars are they suppose to have now???

I just got an idea so that you guys can get to know me more. Ask me any questions. i'll answer most of them lol lol

How is everyone today???


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Rachel, I didn't mean to exclude you in my last post. Here's a link, I hope it works. http://groups.msn.com/NovDec2002Fami..._whatsnew.msnw
How are you healing mama? Keeping yourself busy with family and Cloth Etc., no doubt.









Fern, I don't know what to say... I was so surprised to hear the news about you and your DP. How sad for you. And Elwynn, and Timothy too... Please know that we're here for you, even if it's not IRL.



















































I have two brothers and I fought with them a lot when I was younger, but it would never be OK for them to try and hurt my sisters in-law. Everyone's relationship is their own business, though. I can see it from both your points of view, Fern and Jasanna. I hope this situation doesn't come between the both of you...









Sarah- have fun in Spokane! And tell Lynn







for me, if you remember. I met two MDC mamas in Spokane this summer, and they were both very nice- we grilled BBQ ribs and corn on the cob and S'mores. It was 95 degrees up there (which feels like 110 to me, with the moisture in the air) and I was wearing a long, light flowing skirt and a bee stung me on the butt. :LOL I don't remember the mamas' names but their boys were Alex (younger than Razi) and Avian (older than Razi) and Zachary had fun playing with them.

I've been cooking up a storm here, trying to stay busy so that these clouds don't depress me. Hope all you mamas are doing well today.


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Hey mamas, hope you are all enjoying your weekend.

Jasanna, I was thinking about you last night, I know that the situation between Fern and Timothy must be hard for you as well







I hope that you can all find peace and healing eventually.

dh and a very dear friend of ours are out back right now building a swing set. Yup building it from scratch, they bought the swings and slide adn stuff and it comes with directions on how to build the frame and all. I'll take pics when they are done.

I'm feeling very down today. One of our very best friends is being deployed to Iraq tonight







We've known it was coming but still.... I talked with him this morning and it was just so hard. He and my dh have been best friends since they were fourteen or fifteen and I have known him almost ten years myself.

Well I had a lot more to say, but dd is freaking out so


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## saritasmile (Sep 5, 2004)

razi won't take a nap!!







okay, back to trying to figure out pics to send. i have such a hard time w/ remembering computer stuff. i have to reask dp everytime and he's getting a little...







:


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Anyhow, so like I was saying...Our friend Martin that is going to Iraq. He has a wife and a son who will be four in March. He just got back from Korea last march so he hasn't even been home a year yet. It just breaks my heart how much he is missing out on in his son's life. He is such a good daddy, and now he will be gone at least another year.







He joined the army to get money for college (his dream is to be a special education teacher) and has only been able to take a few classes because he is gone so much. anyhow, my heart hurts today









thanks for letting me talk about it.....


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

that is so sad..and unfair. why do there have to be wars!!







momma. im so sorry...


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

well my library time is up. its freezing and im scared to walk home.. bye!


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

thanks fern. i hope y'all got home okay.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

editted: If you've already read it, then you know what I said, but if you have to know, PM me. I didn't want to sound harsh, it's just the way it came out.


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## Sandrine (Apr 14, 2004)

Mamajaza~ I just notice that you live in Canada. May I ask about where??


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

sandrine~ definately not ontario:LOL We live in B.C. born and raised. I could tell you exactly where on the MSN group.







I repied to one of your posts about night time parenting on there if you wanna take a peek


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

mamajaza-
this is a thread for mamas to talk about themselves and their children/families. for some it is one of the few support systems they have. for this reason it is pefectly acceptable for anyone to talk about anything they need to.
i'm sorry that this is a bit complicated, but if you have specific issues, take it to PM and not here.


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## Sandrine (Apr 14, 2004)

Mamajaza~ you live so far away.

Well, everyone does.


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

elwynn and i are at my aunties farm this weekend..we love it here! there is a big wood stove burning bright and lots of snow outside. when you look out the window you can see cats padding slftly in the snow and sheep eating hay in the feild.. quite a few of the yew's are pregnant and they have big bellies. i want to snuggle up with them , but they are shy of me still.. elwynn helped do the morning chores (he rides in the wheelbarrow or wheelbobo as he calls it :LOL )
he tried eating the sheeps oats which have molasses on them and i remember doing the same when i was little and she had angora goats..
it feels good to be around family. we had ginger muffins hot out of the oven for breakfast and im not sure for the plan today. im hoping for a nap myself.

i hope you are all snuggled up warm in your houses today








fern


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

wow, can i come visit? :LOL


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

lisa, of course!!









ive been very lazy! watching cooking shows :LOL i dont know about you girls, but i love watching cooking shows.. its like housewife porn or something. i even got some good ideas..i like the ones that aren't too fancy, just simple yummy recipes. yup. a look into the life of fern







(they have fancy satelite cable with all the good channels.. )

anyways, its very quiet in here...hope you are well.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Yes, we are definately all snuggled up and warm in here. We have a wood-buring furnace which I just stoked, and 2 feet of snow outside. Eating lots of yummy soups these days.

In other news, Haeven's molars have surfaced, I noticed a few days ago. I think that might be part of why she has this horrible rash--STILL-- I've tried so many things to try and heal it. She doesn't even wear diapers, except at night, and when we go out. And the rash is there every morning, all day.







I try putting good herbal balm on before she goes to sleep. I tried emu oil-pure. I try to put some herbal lotion on there during the day, and still, there it is. Maybe I should "strip" her diapers?


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## Sandrine (Apr 14, 2004)

Mamajaza~ Striping your diapers are a good idea. Your dd skin is maybe not used to having a moist surface close to it all the time, especially now that she is day-trained or not wearing dipes all the time.

I love watching cooking shows. Jas does too. She will sit down to watch them as soon as she hears the theme song or their voices. lol

We had a great day, I must say. Jas slept well, but dd2 didn't. Dh let me sleep in, which I just loved. After lunch, I went for an hour long walk with my mom. It was so nice outside. About -7celcius. That's warm for here at this time of winter. Then we had supper at my mom. It went great.

Jas, lately, is so tired. Poor sweety. I hope she gets better soon. It could be teeth or just getting used to sleeping better. My mom has this saying, "The more we sleep the more we want to sleep and the less we sleep the less we want to sleep."


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## bemommy (Sep 21, 2003)

Hi I'm mama to a sweet 2 year old. Can I join the thread?


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

hi everyone-

we FINALLY updated GA's site tonight. tons of photos from the last few months.... enjoy

http://georgiarose.home.comcast.net/

Amy


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Well, I put haeven to bed tonight with no diaper and a shower curtain, wool padding, and a soaking blanket under her, with her potty right there. Hopefully when she wakes up she will use the potty rather than pee in the bed, but if she does, I guess it will be ok with all the reinforcments I've put under her. I hope her rash will be better tomorrow.

We are going to go on a long car trip in a couple of days.... I am thinking this through very carefully. How am I to transport two babies for a 7 hour car trip without having them scream themselves to sleep every couple of hours. I'm thinking I will wake up really early, and the night before, my DP will keep haeven up for as long as possible, and so I can stop once they start getting too rily during the drive, and once they are boobed out etc, go back in the car and drive and hope they fall asleep. I'm going alone, if you're wondering why I think I need to do all this stuff. I might try to see if there is someone looking for a ride on the local co-op board. Then they could drive, and I could be with the babes. And the roads aren't very good right now either, but I'm not overly paranoid.

Sandrine, it's funny how you call your DD Jas, as that is my name too









bemommy~







..... is your babe a boy or girl? What are you dealing with right now in the parenting spectrum?


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

Jaz- my dd had a bit of a rash like that a month ago and it was actually wind burn. i didn't have enough lotion stuff on her bum, and with the cold weather it got chaffed somehow. it was weird.
anyway, i know she goes diaperless a lot- but does she wear pants to protect her bum? that was helped my dd.


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

mamajaza-

could you borrow a portable dvd player or a laptop that plays them? we have a freind with a player that we borrow for long trips and it really makes a difference for those hard moments

amy


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## **guest** (Jun 25, 2004)

I'm in awe that so many of the newly 2's are potty trained. My ds is so not ready. I've tried, yes, but he is simply not interested. He watches me and his father go pee but he refuses to sit on his potty or on the toilet. I'm not going to push it but I sure do wish he could go without dipes during the day at least. LOL. It would save me tons of money on washing dipes every day! heh heh.

Also, a friend of mine keeps telling me that ds should be speaking more clearly and with more spontaneous sentences. Now, from what I read in books, ds is on schedule so I'm not sure. He may be at the bottom of the norm but I'm not convinced I need to intervene yet.
He says mostly 3 to 5 word sentences but it isn't always clear.
What do you all think?

Hugs,
Liz
Roo 12/22/02


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Amy, I tried to check out your link but it says that it's down for routine service or something so I will check back later.

LizC, I think your son sounds just fine! dd has just started speaking in sentences this week. dh and I understand her just fine, but our friends sometimes need a translation still







She's not interested in the potty much either.

Mamajaza, good luck on your road trip. Hope it goes okay!


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## Sandrine (Apr 14, 2004)

Hi! Everyone,

Lizc~ jas doesn't talk much either. She is maybe at the bottom of the norm but is doing great.

Mamajaza~ DD and you have great names. Well, I'm a bit biased. lol lol

We travel about 2-3times to Ottawa a yr. It's about 800km or 500miles or about 8hrs drive. Actualy it takes us 10hrs with the kids. It's long but that's where our family lives. So, traveling is nothing new for us. We have started to travel at night, so that the kids won't be too bored. They both do great in the car. I bring books, toys, and lots and lots of snacks. We also takes lots of breaks, about every 2hrs we get out and walk for a bit. Now that jas walks too, we let her walk around. The last time we went, we drove during the day. Jas took 2 little naps instead of her one nap. And Chlo did great too.

HTH


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Yep,







: Hopefully we will be able to get there without any trauma. It's just that there is no one that I can stop in at if I need to, and I have no $ for a hotel. I might end up driving at night, but the roads up here are pretty snowy and icy these days.

mona~ I try putting clothes on haeven every single day (more than once), but she prefers to be in her birthday suit







It's so cold here, I wish she would wear clothes.

P.S. Did you hear that Brad Pitt is single again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!







:


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## bemommy (Sep 21, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Mamajaza**
bemommy~







..... is your babe a boy or girl? What are you dealing with right now in the parenting spectrum?

Girl. . Liberty Ada. What am I dealing with. Libby has been teething on and off since about October. 2 of her 2 year molars are fully in. She's still working on the top two. I keep telling myself that everything will be back to "normal" once those teeth are in. She's always been a big night-time nurser but it's been pretty crazy lately. I'd love to just get some sleep









She's funny, she's active. She's a joy and a handful. I sometimes wonder where all this patience of mine has magically come from.

I've been having a lot of fun reading the thread.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

BeanBean talks a lot, and very well; he's the exception, though. From conversations with therapists, I've learned that at minimum a two year old should have something like a dozen words which can be easily understood by family, and 6-8 which other people understand most of the time. Your babes all sound like they're doing just fine to me.









It's really interesting to me to learn what people think of as normal development. I had very strange ideas for a long time, but since I got pregnant wih BeanBean, I've done a lot more research. It's been quite the eye-opener for me.


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

elwynn learned how to make snow angels yesterday.!

i miss the sunshine! its so cold here..
we are going home today.. i need to clean up for the folks coming to visit!
other than that i still feel like hibernating.

elwynn is getting really into being stubborn. he is yelling "NO" a lot and its getting on my nerves. part of me thinks its just normal 2 behavior but another part of me thinks its from him seeing his parents fighting..i dunno.. hopefully he will get over it soon..he had to have a fewq time outs yesterday because he just wasnt listening and kept doing things he wasnt supposed to do. its hard in a house that isnt toddler proofed.

do you mommas use time outs? what gentle discipline methods do you use?


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

So I bought a pair of jeans for my huge behind a few weeks ago, right? I put them on this morning, and by the time I'd walked to the living room they'd fallen off my behind!







: My fat lady underwear fell off, too. I have no idea what's going on; I thought the scale at WIC was off, but apparently it wasn't. I've lost nearly ten pounds in the past two weeks, and I have no idea why.









BeanBean has an infected hangnail.







He's two years old, so getting him to hold still to soak it is probably out of the question. If we had a bathtub, I'd stick him in it but I don't so I can't. I tried to get it out, but it's on his big toe and I couldn't get close; besides, he screamed the whole time. When I stopped he said "I need to go to daddy now!" and ran away from me.







Anyway, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that he doesn't develop a fever or streaking around the site, because either of those will necessitate an emergency room visit (his first ever!) and I'm totally not up for the ER with two kids.


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

Yay Rynna! (hopefully it isn't something serious and it's just your metabolism kicking into high gear) I've lost almost 50lbs since July--feeling good, although I have at least another 20 I'd like to lose. Although I'd love to get pg again soon so I would take that in a heartbeat.









I had my first period since the pregnancy loss. I'm so happy that my body is working properly so soon after. I know it's been a month, but still...with the PCOS you just never know. Plus the 2 surgeries and the methotrexate (chemotherapy drug used in ectopic treatment)...you just never know!

We had a chicken pox party this afternoon. I was a little worried about choosing to do it (although up until I received the phone call that our friends had CP, I'd always said I'd expose him in a heartbeat--then I started getting kind of weird about it, but I did take him) for some reason--I know I want him to get them over with, but for some reason I feel like I would feel really guilty if he's miserable. But it'd be worse as he gets older, so I'm trying to help him.









Been busy around here--only been homeschooling for 2 months but I feel like a complete loser at it and wish I hadn't pulled him out. Not that it's going bad--I just don't feel like I'm enjoying it like I thought I would. I know a lot of it stems from trying to juggle a toddler and an online biz and a life of my own (like time to myself at naptime is a really good time to homeschool but then I lose *my* time). That and the homeschool group I wanted to join didn't pan out (they are "full" and have a waiting list already for next year) so I'm feeling like Jacob's getting shortchanged in a way. He likes being home but I asked him and he misses school. *sigh*


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

MamaFern said:


> do you mommas use time outs? what gentle discipline methods do you use?[/QUOTE
> 
> only have a sec, but we don't do time outs. i think that our dc are too young for this, although i don't think i'd apply it to my kids at any age.
> 
> ...


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

WOO HOO Rynna! How old is your BooBah these days? Maybe that has something to do with it? For me I didn't start losing weight after Mariah was born until after she was a year old.

Rachel, so glad you posted, i've been thinking about you











Fern, we are going through some difficult behaviors too. We've been having all out tantrums here for the first time. Screaming, crying, the works. Over little tiny things like changing a diaper. I know partly she is struggling with control issues, and she is definetley growing in big ways. We really make an effort to let her have as much control over her life as possible, but there are some things I *have* to intervene in. Or what about when we need to go out? It took me an hour yesterday to get her diaper changed and a decent amount of clothes on her so we could go to the post office. AN HOUR! every time I would ask her, are you ready to get dressed? she would dissolve into tears and screaming and trying to kick and hit me. It is frustrating! I also recognize that part of the problem is I seem to have about half the patience since I've been pregnant. And I am taking things too personally.

I have no clue how to do time outs with a two year old so we haven't done that. Mostly what I have resorted to is pickign her up and putting her in her bedroom (most of our house has hard wood floors / tile) and letting her scream her heart out while I wait in the living room. If I stay in the room with her she gets more worked up and it takes longer for her to calm down. I feel badly about leaving her alone in such an emotional state but







that's what seems to work and I am just a few feet away anyway, she just can't see me. When she comes out I always hug and kiss her and ask is she feels better.

But what about for little things - she seems to be defying us on purpose a lot lately, and while we have stayed calm and gentle in our responses I can't help but wonder if what we are doing is working. For example, she knows and has known for ages not to play with our records. Yesterday right in front of me she took a record out of the sleeve and threw it on the (hardwood) floor. I picked it up and explained that records are fragile and we have to be soft with them. Then I asked her to put it back in the sleeve. She started screaming NO NO NO while backing up and bending the sleeve every which way, she has never done anything like this before!







: I snatched (bad mama I know) the record sleeve from her, said again we need to be soft with our things put the record back in and we left the room. What should I have done instead? I have a very difficult time with our things being treated badly because we dont have much to begin with. The records are accessible to her only because we have never had a problem with that before. Ever! So yes I know one option would be to put the records away somewhere, but please I need advice on how to handle other similar situations too.

phew. i feel better just having talked about all this....

and where are you hiding casina? hope you are well...


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

thanks for your input Lisa, we cross posted


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## Brayg (Jun 18, 2003)

awwww...thanks Carrie!


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

carrie~ I find when H acts like what you were describing with Mariah, that she needs some more attention. Sometimes, (I've been told) babies will find any way to get your attention, weather it's posative or negative. I *TKWYM* about having half the patience you did before you were pregnant. It's sometimes insane, the amount of attention babies need. I'm with haeven ALL THE TIME, and still, she needs more attention sometimes. I guess maybe for me it has to do with the fact that I can't hold her all the time, like I used to. And maybe that's the case with you, getting all big and preggo.


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

elwynn's grama got back from mexico last night, so today has been a visiting day. im drinking some strange liquor from mexico that's bottle is shaped like a godddess, big belly, breasts and bottom.. its quite funny! it tastes like nothing ive ever had before.maybe a bit like eggnog... i rarely drink but i got my moon time today so i figure that i should celebrate being a woman with some goddess juice?! :LOL

its snowing again.. just when i thought that it was going to
be nice enuff to walk to town and cash the cheques that have been burning a hole in my pocket...

jasanna is on her way to visit.. im baby proofing the house. i barely remember what elwynn was like a 7 months.. crawling..learning to stand up on things..putting everything in his mouth... ive put pillows around the fire place and cleaned up all of the smaller toys..i doubt that she could choke on any of them, but im being extra cautious... its going to wild and fun having 3 kids in the house..all mobile and up to no good!








i cant wait to see them all together again. ill be posting pictures of our kiddo's together for sure!

i hope that you are all doing well on this cold january eve..


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## Sandrine (Apr 14, 2004)

MamaFern~ That's awesome that Jasanna is going for a visit. I hope you all have lots of fun.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

okay, i'm sort of caught up. but i didn't read as carefully, waah. i cleaned up the house for clay's birthday party. some if you have noticed me complaining about my house. well, now it is cluttered with what was used today, and some kid projects from the past few days, but THAT'S IT. well, the laundry is behind, but everything has a certain place to go. so i did most of the work i've been meaning to do for half a year in a week's time. i even put up the broken trumpet as a handtowel holder and stuff like that. so suddenly i've been feeling freer.

fern, sounds like you have the damiana bottle. it's syrupy tasting reminiscent of a tea. i had one back when i met my dh.

rynna, sounds to me like you lost weight because you bought the clothes. that's what would happen to me but not quite so fast! once i finally accepted that i would live in the body i had and buy something to decently cover it, i would feel better and begin to magically lose weight. one of many things that showed me the power of my mind and emotions.

the twos. it is their mission and job to grow up and become capable and that means outwitting us at every chance possible. they are exploring us as ourside individuals as opposed to before they were part of us, so they are learning and testing what we are about. this is when parents can decide to enforce what they want to control or let go of some of it. they will press our buttons and the more buttons we have that work they will use like a game. childproofing is not just about physical harm like caustic chemicals, it is also so that we don't yell at them and feel bad about it and they cry. move things you do not want touched. or at least cover them and make them not exciting looking. or expect to repeat yourself. or let them touch them.

asking questions is a tricky business with kids. i have to remind myself to modify my speech from time to time since i get in and out of habit with it depending on energy. yes and no choice questions are not needed for two year olds. really. i encourage you and me to let go of these questions.

imagine you are keyed up for planning a big day and and you are so excited about life that you jump out of bed to get things going. (for me an example would be planning my wedding where we did most of the work like i made my dress and did the flowers and we catered the food) you want to experience everything new as fast as possible. then imagine someone walking behind you telling you what you did wrong and right and asking you questions all day like "do you want to do this?" over and over when you aren't even sure if you should be the one deciding and sometimes you aren't ready to decide but you don't want to be alone. it gets overwhelming and irritating and it makes you want to scream. that's what it can be like for a two year old.

another thing they do need is boundaries. not much, but something tangible to feel safe, since they are not safe in their mamma's arms. my boundaries are almost nonexistent. um... like food belongs in the kitchen (when we're in the bedroom). hold cups with two hands, put trash in the trashcan (neither are well enforced but i keep using my breath). swordfighting on the porch or yard. stay on the grass (not the road). find mom -before you get mad- and say "mom" so she has your attention and look me in the eye and tell me what you need. i don't say that precisely, but we are working on hollering from one end of the house to the other.

???why am i in lecture mode? i suppose i need to get out more, i've been closed in these days.....


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

casina,

thank you for reminding us all of simple things that we all sometimes forget.

elwynn still isnt asleep yet. its 10:30 and im getting very crabby. i want my 10 minutes of peace before i go to sleep.. and it doesnt look like im going to get it today.

tomorow we are having a MDC momma and her 3 kids over for lunch! im excited about meeting a like minded momma and her kids who live in the same town as us.

elwynn needs me.. i need patience. i feel like i have very little right now. i just feel a bit overwhelmed these last few days. all day ive been dropping things and being clumsy and feeling lazy. i drank some nettle tea thinking it would help but it doesnt seem to have had any effect. maybe i need a night without strange dreams. ive been having a lot lately and wake up feeling like ive been running, not sleeping peacefully under the glowing sliver of the moon.

sweet dreams mommas and babes.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

I've been feeling really depressed over the past few days, and have been a terrible mamma. I *know* that getting this place cleaned up would really help me, but I can't get anything done because BeanBean is *always* hanging on me begging to nurse, or he is nursing, or BooBah's nursing, or both, or they're both just awake and screaming in my ears or... well, you get the idea.

Two nights ago, I asked Mike to take BeanBean to the grocery store; I would nurse BooBah to sleep and then I'd be able to get some laundry done and put away. Well, they walked out the door and BooBah was almost asleep. I was reading my book, she fell asleep, I popped her off the nipple and was about to finish a paragraph when Mike tapped on the window; he'd locked BeanBean in the car along with the keys.







: I went to the police station and someone came and opened the door, but I was so irritated. Of course, BooBah woke up when Mike tapped on the window, and of course *nothing* got done. I've been seriously feeling like there's some conspiracy that keeps me from cleaning without the sound of *SCREAMING* children in the background.

Today, I screamed at BeanBean so loudly that he actually ran away from me and hid, and when I saw him again his eyes were as big as saucers and he looked terrified.







I felt so awful. But when I went to apologize to him, he asked to nurse again and I just felt like flinging him across the room, he'd bitten me and pooped on the floor (he stood up from his potty before he was totally finished) and shrieked and woke up his sister, who wasn't happy anyway.. it was just a mess. Mike asked me if I wanted to partially wean him, and I told him the truth: I don't think that would work. I think he'd just scream louder and more and I would be even more miserable.









I have been doing everything I can to calm down and remove myself from situations, but it's really hard to do that when the kids are screaming at me. A small, objective part of my mind understands it: BeanBean is still a baby and needs his mommy; BooBah is in pain and frustrated. But I have been so miserable that I can't hear the voice of reason in my head all the time. Yick.














Today I walked out the front door and held it shut (BeanBean can open and unlock the front door, have I ever mentioned that?) while I smoked a clove, something I haven't done in ages. I even inhaled. I felt better afterwards, too.







:

Miss BooBah, my seven month old wonder baby, has started cruising. Now I have the unenviable task of finding teeny tiny socks with tread on the bottoms. When BeanBean was about 14 months old, I had him in a 12 month size sleeper (because that was the size that fit him) and he kept falling down. I couldn't figure out why until I changed him and realized that the sleeper had no tread on the bottom of the feet; it was an XL newborn 12 month size, as opposed to a S infant 12 month size. It was easy enough just to use the infant sized sleepers for him, but I have never seen a 6-9 month sized *anything* with tread on the bottom, to say nothing of a 3-6 month (which she can still wear comfortably). Fun fun.

Anyway, it's been a "bad mommy" day all around.







I've really got to get my shit in gear, as it were. *sigh*


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Oh Rynna







I wish I had some good advice for you. All i have is hugs though.







Try to be gentle with your self mama, you have two young children who need you so much. Geez i have been having a hard time lately and I only have one.

Casina and Jas, thanks so much for the advice. I haven't done a damn thing this week but just *be* with dd and that has seemed to help a lot. I totally here you on the childproofing Casina and I have been working on that some more this week. And I guess I should just get used to repeating myself, huh? She is growing so fast and so much lately that it is really hard to remember she is barely two some days.

Off to find some breakfast


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

bad mommies unite! at least we are real!
shame can teach us. anger can motivate us. when we scream they know we have a limit, as opposed to us just paddling them with a frozen demeanor.

eilonwy, if i were you i would put a double bolt on that door. it is a pain for me to look for keys to open, but it works. or you could put a sliding latch very high up (my kids can get that already, but it helps). it doesn't sound like you need to get anything in gear. it sounds like me when i'm depressed i try to do even more than i already can handle because i want things fixed. my main rule is, do the kids feel loved? enough to act badly because they can? then you are doing fine. if they did not feel loved, they would feel too afraid or listless to wail. really. it does sound like you need a break though, something alone without kids with an activity to take your mind off for an hour or so, maybe catch up with an old friend? i'm often sneaking outside to be alone, so don't feel bad about that.

i think some kind of puffy paint from the craft store can be used to put treads on clothing. i've never done it so i'm not sure what kinds work best.

rachel, i've been thinking about you and homeschooling. i think you set yourself up asking your son if he missed school. of course he is going to miss something and there is no need to fret more about that than you ever did before. and it is wonderful that he was frank with you. it takes time to get in the rhythm of homeschooling and staying home in general and having kids around you all the time. and some boys tend not to be so self starting which makes it challenging for mammas. but if you feel right about it then i think you see how the year goes. it helps my family to have a few concrete things we do at a certain time during the week (especially since my dh has a variable schedule). reed looks forwards to kung fu twice a week, and we always go to the park on friday around noon. knowing that these things will happen seem to make a big difference in momentum for my boys. and me. if it helps at all, we are unschooling and have no curricula whatsoever. if anything, their curricula is just learning about being part of the family. i guess yugioh plays a big part too, for now.

i guess i'm not depressed anymore since i'm just a pouring fountain of comment!

love,
casina


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## Sandrine (Apr 14, 2004)

To everyone who needs one. I totally understand how hard some days can be. Especially with 2 very young ones. It's getting better here but somedays I want to hide from both of them.







: t.v has been a godsend for me anyway to help me deals with them both asking for me. I put a video in and then take care of dd2. Then once dd2 is taking care, I can take care of DD1. I know t.v is not good for her but it's hard sometimes when both their routine don't match.

Well, got to go make lunch....hmmm what to eat...hmm.....


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *casina*
i think some kind of puffy paint from the craft store can be used to put treads on clothing. i've never done it so i'm not sure what kinds work best.









Casina!!







That's absolutely brilliant! I can't believe I never thought of that! I bet I could get some on freecycle, too, that's just the kind of thing people are always looking to get rid of. Thanks!


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

that is a great idea!

i woke this morning and the room was spinning.. after a while it stopped but then my insides were spinning. ive been in bed most of the day.. i threw up a bit but i hadn't eaten since lunch yesterday so it was really painful! im still a bit queezy, but the spinning has stopped, thankfully. i hardly ever get sick.. and it was such a bad day to get it too becase i finally made a date to hang out with a MCD momma and her kids







we made a raincheque, but im dissapointed. oh well these things happen for a reason right?


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Thank-you for being real, mommas









I drove for 10 hours a couple of days ago through the wind and the sleet and the snow. With my little munchkins. I did it all during the night, so as to not have too much trauma. Still, babies do not like to be in vehicles (well, mine anyways) and they woke up numerous times, where I had to change diapers, give boobs, and calm nerves. It was quite the adventure, parking on the side of the highway with monsterous semi-trucks passing me by within feet on a kinda-slippery road. well, I'm here now, and I'm glad we got here safe and sound. I'm a slooooooow driver, which is probably why.

just want to say that I understand how you all feel, and don't worry, nothing lasts forever. winter will be over soon.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

WOW! you did the drive. i have never done it and didn't want to give any kind of naysaying vibe. so glad you made it safe jaz. so glad that you are smart enough to drive slow.

fern, let us know if you are even better.

rynna, maybe what i'm thinking is actually puffy glue (in paint colors?).

haha, you are welcome. my mind is spinning with ideas so throw me some other weird practical problems. today i was trying to design a mop to use old tshirts that could be easily adaptable to everyone. i made up a new soft back carrier but ruby won't try it. probably because i used ugly fabric for the prototype. i'm thinking about making soap for the first time. maybe i should get on the old sweater knit soaker thing. i really should be trying to actually make money, but it's not in me i'm not a mass producer. i just need to make enough cool things and get someone to work as my agent. oh yeah, i have projects promised but now they seem like icky jobs even though they are for friends promising to pay. there's my inner child bared for you, or the idealistic design artiste. i really have to get a garden going this year. yes, i don't live in snow or frozen ground but what is out there is a world thick with mosquitoes all day.
af must be coming that's when i'm more chatty.


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

casina, i think it was just a one day thing. im feeling tired but better.. ive been drinking lots of water and as soon as i could hold something i had veggie broth and a piece of toast and felt a lot better. i havnt eaten much because i dont want to over stress my system, but i do need enuff energy to make milk for my little guy. its early but im ready for bed. i also took some homeopathic tincture for the flu and it seemed to help right away.. one of the ingredients is viper venom..weird huh?!a anyways...

elwynn has had cradle cap since he was born but since his hair grew so fast i never really dealt with it..but today while he was in the bath i rubbed some grapeseed oil on his scalp and let it soak in and then gently brushed it out with a clean flea comb (it is the only brush we have in the house...) and it worked really well.. no more yucky scalp crud. i know that i should have done it a long time ago..but id wasnt hurting him and i didnt want to have to hold him down screaming to do it. he sat really still while i did it and didnt complain a bit. it was simple and stress free and im glad its gone..








i doubt that anyone but me noticed it, but it did bother me.

rynna: hug


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

good thing about funky illnesses that flatten you - they go fast.
ruby would still have cradle cap but a friend that was over not too long ago was sitting next to a napping ruby (hmph, kinda rare these days) and couldn't stand it and got it all out. i think she was a little appalled. my energy just doesn't go that far.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

jas-- i drive a lot with the kids; i've never done such a long trip (the longest was when beanbean was about 6 months old, i dove 7 hours) but we take a 1.5 hour trip (one way) at least twice a week and a 2-hour (one way) trip at least once. it's crazy, but my kids actually don't seem to mind too much, they just accept it as par for the course.

casina-- i keep debating, in my mind, the merits of say, buying a cottage license to the ltk soaker & longies patterns. It's expensive, and the initial outlay for wool would be expensive, but i think i'd definately turn a profit. i could always work my own pattern, but theirs is already worked out so beautifully, and it's so pretty and adaptable...







I don't know. It won't even be something to think about until tax time, and even then it may not be an option, but it's something I want to think about anyway. I mean, imagine... getting paid to knit! Wow. I've been knitting for years, and I never thought there was any potential to make money doing it.

fern-- i had the same thing! the "Itsavirus." It was yichy. I'm still feeling a bit like a thorougly wrung washcloth, but I'm not feeling so sick and miserable anymore.

We had a better day today. I decided I was going to Take BeanBean Seriously, no matter what. This morning, he woke up poopy. He asked to nurse and I told him that I couldn't stand the smell and wouldn't nurse him until he had had a shower. He didn't want a shower, so I said "ok" and left him alone. He played for a while, and even drank a bottle of pediasure and curled up for a few minutes, calm and happy and quiet the whole time. A few hours later, he said "I'm ready to take a shower now." So he got in the shower, I washed his behind, and then when he asked nicely to nurse he did.







It was so much easier to deal with!

I wasn't perfect, but things went a lot more smoothly than they did yesterday.







Of course, we got to the IL's, who are totally not TCS'ers and BeanBean had to hear "You're not allowed to X" over and over again. *sigh* TCS isn't exactly something I can explain to people who totally aren't into it. The IL's are of the "train a child up" mentality. They are totally into rules and being authoritarian with children, and that doesn't doesn't work for me, especially with children who are completely verbal like BeanBean.


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

GA still has tons of cradle cap and she has thin blond hair so it is pretty obvious. I have asked the doc about it several times and he said don't worry just leave it there......sometimes we try to work on it but she hates it so ....whataver we'll just leave it there..

amy


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

i recomend using a flea comb.. i know it sounds weird but it works soo well because the bristles are so close together..but like you said, if she hates it why bother.. it will eventually go away by itself or with your help and its not hurting her..i just sometimes got the feeling when people saw it that they thought i wasnt taking good care of him because of it..but that was just my own insecurities..







s

rynna: i feel that way with elwynn too.. i get frustrated because i want him to do things on my time and i dont think about how i would feel if someone was always telling me when and how to do stuff.. if they want to sit in a shitty diaper then i guess we should let them.. but its sooo gross! i try to wait till he asks.. he doesnt like it so usually even before he's done he says "POTTY!" i dont understand why he cant come yelling "POTTY" when he is just about to go and not durring or after..but...

oh oh! i have an older sister.. 5 years older. she is great. and she called me last night and asked me if i would want to be her room [email protected] i was so excited. we didnt get along when we were younger but we love eachother..and rarely get to hang out because she is busy at nursing school and im in mission and being a momma.. but she is going to have a room open in sept and she said that im the only person that she could think of that she would LOVE to live with. it was a big compliment. i guess i still feel kinda sad about how we hated eachother when we were younger. but i was actally thinking about asking her and then thought i was probably the last person she would want to live with.. i guess i was wrong. so im really happy because the house she lives in is great and close to lots of my friends..and my best friends baby was born in that house too.. i know its a long time away, but i know that ill have a place to go when this house gets sold.









things just fall into place if you let them. i love it!


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Congratulations Fern!!!









Rynna, We also try to take M. seriously. I am not terribly familiar with TCS, but I did read part of a thread about it here ages ago and love the concept. That is something I have been reflecting on this past week as well, my need (as well as dh's) to go slower and honor her needs more. So, what I'm wondering is was Eli poopy the whole time you were waiting for him to be ready to shower? How long was that? I'm asking because wet/soiled diapers are one of the things that make me crazy. I can't stand for dd to be just sitting in that. She gets diaper rash sooooooooooooo easily for one thing. She hates having to stop what she is doing to change a diaper though. My compromise has been to simply remove the diaper and let her run around naked until she is ready for a new one (and clean her while she is standing/squatting if she is poopy of course) The unforseen upside to this is she is taking an interest in her potty chair again







Anyhow, so I want to respect her words, but the soiled diaper thing







how do y'all deal with stuff like this??

Casina, I keep thinking about your broken trumpet towel holder







I'm so glad that you are feeling better and that your home is more of a haven for you now.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

i've got a broken trombone to make into a towel rack too. haven't figured the hardware though.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *punkprincessmama*
So, what I'm wondering is was Eli poopy the whole time you were waiting for him to be ready to shower? How long was that? I'm asking because wet/soiled diapers are one of the things that make me crazy.

Don't get me wrong, poopy pants piss me off, too. And this one was particularly nasty, the smell was really bad (BeanBean is finally starting to digest most of his food). The thing is, I've been having such bad days and something occured to me Friday morning: Why am I arguing with him? He's two years old, and while he's a very smart kid (IMNSHO) he's not what you'd call the most rational of people, you know? I decided that a return to the TCS principles which had made our life together so easy in the past was in order. So when BeanBean woke up with nasty smelling poopy pants and asked to nurse, I did the best TCS thing I could think of, which was to try to come up with a common preference. I was not going to concede and nurse him while he reeked like that, but if he didn't want to get changed I wasn't going to spend time and energy arguing with him. Once he understood that I wasn't saying no outright to nursing, and that I wasn't going to coerce him into getting a shower, he was fine.

It was about three and a half, maybe four hours before he decided he was ready to take a shower, and I just waited for him to be ready; it's not like we had anywhere to be, and the only thing I could not concede to do was nurse him while he stank.







The thing about common preferences is that they are, ideally, just that: common. I think that when most people think of TCS they think that it's only the children who are Taken Seriously, but it really forces me to rethink my own sacrifices. Through TCS, I've learned to take *myself* seriously, and that makes for a much happier family. Just as BeanBean has the right to sit in poop, so I have the right not to breathe in the fumes for extended periods. BeanBean has the right to ask for more X, I have the right to say "how about Y instead?" if I'm just not up for X. Even with a two year old, it's amazing how often we can both compromise and get a reasonable approximation of what we want, without sacrificing the things we can't live without.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

first- hugs to all the mamas!!! i think on an energetic level things are going on that we can not always understand, and they affect us deeply. when 160,000 people die suddenly, you can bet SOMETHING is going on, yk?
so i try to remind myself of that, be patient w/ dd and myself, and remind myself tht it will all be ok.
saying that..... my pms this month was freaking horrible!!! my hormones are still all out of wack. i need to have regular accupuncture treatments, but regular is not part of our vocabulary.








anyway, now that i am in my moon, i feel a bit better, but still riding the wave of energetic movement.

great post eilonwy about your TCS approach, and how it teaches you to challenge yourself contantly along the way. I have found too often that when i have a tension w/ something dd is doing, if it really evaluate my tension, I realize that what she is doing really is not a big deal, and that i need to let go of it. And as soon as i do this, the issue no longer manifests, as i am no longer tense about it, and so dd actually changes her behavior to a more "preferred" one on her own. it's like i communicate why i would like her to do something, or why it would benefit her if she would do something. then i let it go, and leave it up to her. and once i let go of it, then she has some control over it. and then all the info sinks in, and she makes her decisions.
hope that makes some sense.

i do have two issues that i can not let go of w/ her, and just hand my trust over to her. i guess in essense it is actually taking myself more seriously then her. those areas are in food and tv.
the food thing- she has allergies, so i can not let her eat whatever she wants. she will not sleep if she (or i for that matter) consume certain things. luckily she seems to understand that she can not eat certain things, sas she says "papa's" when he is eating something she cannot, and says "baby no." and she is almost always fine with that. but occassionally i have to say no, you can not eat that, it will make your tummy upselt.
there are also a few things that she probably could eat, but that i don't believe are good for any person to eat- white sugar. we don't eat it, so neither does she.
i have no illusions that one day she will. but for now i know it would make her hyper crazy, and that it is not good for her immune system. so i make that decision. TCS'ers say that if you leave it totally open to your kids, they will eventually make the right decisions. and it is not htat i doubt that. it is just that i don't want her system compromised in the mean time.
the second area is w/ tv. that too makes her a bit obessesive and crazy and out of her center. i also believe that tv messes w/ the energetics of a child in ways that science can't necessarity measure. too much flash, images, linear disturbance going on that is not able to be processed. so i do regulate that.
we don't have cable, so it is not really a huge issue anyway. but my housemate watches a lot of movies , so she sees and knows what watching tv is all about.
anyway, those are the two areas i struggle with. i try to be somewhat flexible, but in the end w/ those two areas i will base my decisions on what i am feeling is good for her, and not necessarily what she always wants. a big deviation from TCS.

my i am rambling on.

mamafern- that is GREAT news about your sister! congrats!
I hope your visit w/ Jaz is going well.









I can not imagine being in the car that long w/ 2 babes by myself. my folks live 5 hours a way, and it is a major pain in my ass to do that trip. i am in the back seat about half of it playing, and i get a bit car sick from back seats (or have since i've had dd anyway ) so by the time we get there i have a horrible headache.

dd is saying about 2-3 new words every day. today it was hide, help (i guess she's said that one before but i hadn't heard it), and here. and a B word that i can't remember. i am SO glad she has learned to say help. hopefully that will be helpful , no pun intended. :LOL

our newest fav thing is for her to help me cut veggies for salads. she grabs the back/end of the knife while i chop things. she loves helping mama.









ok, i have to run. congrats if you made it through this message.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

what is TCS?


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

TCS= Taking Children Seriously.
http://www.takingchildrenseriously.com/node/58 is one site....


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *casina*
eilonwy, if i were you i would put a double bolt on that door. it is a pain for me to look for keys to open, but it works. or you could put a sliding latch very high up (my kids can get that already, but it helps).

I can't; I live in an apartment, and can't drill holes in the door. Believe me, if I could do that I would, along with painting the freaking walls.







:

My left boob is *killing* me. I don't know if it's thrush or what but holy crap does it hurt!!







:














:







It's all I can do not to throw the kids accross the room when they touch it; heck, it hurts when my arm brushes it by accident. I seriously want to throw up from the pain-- it's that intense.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

rynna- do you have any cabbage in the fridge? throw on a cabbage leaf if you can.... i also have done homeopathics, but now can't rmember the names.
anyway, sorry about the pain.


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Rynna, how's the boob?

Your stressful situation sounds like me with my two kids at this time last year. Being "thrown" into parenthood (we went from zero to three kids in 6 months) was extremely difficult to get used to, especially when my son wouldn't take a bottle and I was his only means of pacification, comfort, food and drink. And Julianna had reflux and puked up half (or all) of her feedings and was going though drug withdrawals and was in physical pain and would arch away from me if I tried to comfort her. For awhile I was a sleep-depreived zombie, just trying to survive one minute to the next, not knowing if I was going to survive, and frequently breaking down in tears right along with the kids. I was in a horrible daze, I don't remember much about the kids being young and that scares me. Thankfully I am very faithful with taking photos and I have gazillions to remind me, but still... I lost a lot of time being a dazed zombie, and I wasted a lot of time being a crazed lunatic. Hopefully I caught it in time before my kids became trauatized- I actually think I was a better mom in some ways back then because I didn't yell at them so much- they are quite rambunctious nowadays, and together they make for a destructive duo. I still yell a lot, way more than I'd like to, and I lose my patience too often, and I try hard every day to take deep breaths and just let go and "be"... I'm not in a daze now, and I feel like I'm a good mom, but I can always be better, YK? I guess I'm just rambling on to say that you are a perfectly normal frazzled mother of two and that I have been there (and am still here) with you.









And it is tue what casina says about babies who feel unloved not crying out. They are smarter than we think, and if they think they're needs are going to be met they will do whatever it takes to get that attention. But if they know that no one will come to them they will hide inside themselves. The little boy I took care of last summer was only 5 months old and he was used to being left in a room to cry when he was hungry or tired or scared. I remember one time when he was here he was in the swing and started fussing, so I went to fix him a bottle (of his nasty forrmula). By the time I had mixed the formula and gotten it all ready for him, he had cried himself to sleep. He was so hungry that he didn't want to waste any energy crying for food because he was so conditioned to thinking no one would come for him!!! How unbelievably sad is that?!? I picked him up and held him and fed him, but it made me tear up just thinking about what that little boy had been through in his short little life- he didn't want to waste any calories by crying for food, he tried for the bare minimum to get someone's attention and then gave up... So, we really ARE good mamas when our kids act obnoxious. They feel secure enough with us to test us. It doesn't make sense on the outside, but when you dig a little deeper you can see that it does make sense, and they are on the right track...









Julianna's "dad" got out of jail and went to Social Services. He talked to Julianna's Social Worker and he wants to go ahead with the paternity test so he can start visitation







: . After that he can go for full custody if he wants to. We're preparing ourselves for the worst, but hoping for the best. Even of she does go "home" it won't be for over a year because the courts are very aware that she has bonded to our family and doesn;t even know this man. So we are loving her up extra these days, and spoiling her like mad so when she goes "home" she'll be a brat, :LOL. DH was nice enough to say that he would do it again in a heartbeat of Julianna left, and I was so happy. Most people say "That's it, I can't do this anymore, I can't get attached to a child and have them go home". But DH and I are *ahem* really good at foster parenting, IMO, and we have fun at it and I'd love to take in another baby to love while their own parents can't (or won't). But hopefully Julianna's "dad" will just want visitation and he'll let her stay with us because he'll see how attached she is to our family and he won't want to rip her out of the only home she's know... But we shall wait and see...









I am feeling really FAT lately. I always gain wait in the winter, but this is ridiculous! I can't wait for the summer time when I'm out and about moving and grooving outside and sweating and losing weight again... Right now all I feel like doing is curling up and eating a warm meal, LOL...


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

hi mommas..

im still sniffling.. and i cant taste anything and so all day all i ate was a few bites of oatmeal and now some soup. i got really low bloodsugar and yelled at elwynn for not eating his soup..he was sticking his hands-both of them and squishing the veggies and noodles around. then he wiped them on his clothes.. i just got so MAD. i just want him to eat so that he won't weigh 21 LBS for the rest of his life.. i get so worried that something else is going on, but he is so normal otherwise. i guess i would just feel better about it if he would eat like a normal human sometimes. he will not ever let me spoon feed him. everything has to be " myself" but soup is hard to eat with out getting it everywhere..! he is so friggin picky. i made oatmeal for breakfast and he picked out all of the raisins and wouldnt eat the oats..he picks out the corn from the soup but refused to eat the rest. he wants to eat pickles and chips all day.

okay. enuff ranting.

its pouring rain here.. i have a headache. and im very grumpy. grr.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

fern- i go through the frustration of dd not eating much/weighing much sometimes too. i used to really be uptight about it. but since she was still nursing gobs, i chilled. she was not loosing weight, so that relaxed me. she is finally starting to take more of an interest in eating/food. i try to fatten her up w/ almond butter and avacados, but that doesn't always work.









glad you are starting to feel better.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

fern, have you considered just teaching him to drink the soup? it tends to be neater than spooning with toddlers... and kids love drinking stuff out of bowls; at least, mine does. he also likes dipping stuff into other stuff, especially (*shudder*) ranch dressing (which his grandparents have at 2/3 meals). i told them to get some regular stuff (they usually eat low-fat) for him, and he's definately gained some weight since that happened.

of course, he's still tiny, but he weighs a heck of a lot more. people are always so surprised by how heavy he is, apparently he still looks like he should weigh barely 20 pounds but he's closer to 30.

speaking of weight gain, my BooBah has an appointment with the pediatric gastroenterologist tomorrow; i think he will be pleasantly surprised at how much weight she's gained just since starting the pepcid. it's really helping her to puke less of what she eats! she is now too big for fully half of her 3-6 month sized outfits.







go BooBah!









I'm feeling decent today, except for the sore boob; I think sex helped. Yes ladies, I finally got some! Mike and I were both awake and both kids were asleep, we totally jumped at the chance! :LOL My boob hurts less than it did earlier, but it's still unbelievably sore







. I put some more gentian violet on my nipple, but that didn't help the rest of the boob, just the nipple.

we have snow on the ground. it was really warm last week (mid-60's) and it was supposed to be warm again this week, but last night before we went to bed we saw snow coming down. it's not much, but it's something! i love snow.









i don't know if i mentioned it here, but I have pictures of BooBah cruising in my sig! she's so amazing, i just have to brag.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

mona, i really enjoyed your last post. maybe because i'm on a similar loop - i just had terrible pms and am finally mellowing with the flow.

warning: 2-3 doesn't gain much weight. usually they just elongate. i know of many children that did not change weight the entire year of being 2.

ruby is yelling to nurse.


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

im feeling much better today-emotionally anyways.. im still getting over this sickness..but elwynn and i bundled up and even though its was POURING rain we walked to town. it felt good to strtch my legs and i actually love being out in the rain. it feels like the drops wash all of the tension away. we walked for about 3 hours all over the place.. we had miso soup and veggie sushi (a special treat!) at a little sushi plce in town and i took him to get weighed and to play at the heath unit.. he is taller for sure but no fatter









ive decided to stop feeding him dairy and wheat for a while and see if that helps..maybe he is sensitive to them like i am..so i got some organic goat milk (which is what i used to give him) its a bit more expensive, but higher in fat and protein..i bought him a big bag of mixed nuts and he is happily munching on and washing them down with a cup of goats milk. i know that it is unlikely that he will gain a lot fast but even a pound would be amazing for him. just so he can wear pants without them falling off!

elwynn and haeven have fighting almost non stop. they just dont get on well.. there has to be constant supervision and even when there is someone right there stuff still happens.. elwynn is soooo sensitive..maybe being sick makes him more so.. haeven often just wants to play and as soon as she goes near him he screams bloody murder.. it is very stressful for me and jasanna.. i really hope that they grow out of this soon! its hard to have a nice visit with someone in a situation like this and i feel badly about it..

but my walk helped. i realised neither of us can change this now..and it isnt our faults either..it is something that the kids are going to have to sort out and maybe its just not the right time for them to do that..


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## saritasmile (Sep 5, 2004)

hi mama's! we are back from our trip to see dp's family. am i right that dp stands for 'dear partner'? i decided not to call him dh until he earns it.

razi has been 24 lbs since at least last may. he's gotten taller but no weight. he's a pretty picky eater too. i still love to carry him around in my sling so i'm not complaining.









it was fun meeting some mdc moms last week. i actually played w/ one family a few times we got on so well! i even traded a sling for a hat w/ ears. i can't knit so it was great and i 've always wanted a hat like that.

eilonwy, i looked at your pics. very cute!! it's funny how you get an idea in your head about what people look like and it's always fun to see for real! i wish i would just figure out how to post pics. i just got some really cute ones of razi wearing his new rainbow doll in his sling.

razi has been a bit different lately. he's been very into 'razi do it!' including climbing up onto the big potty alone. luckily he didn't fall in! he also is suddenly doing better w/ telling me he has to pee before he does so i can get the dipe off. also he is now very confident at jumping off the kitchen counter into the rocking chair all by himself! yes, lovely heart attack stuff. actually i really rather him be good at that stuff. i think he doesn't fall as easily because he has confidence in what he can do. if he decides he wants to do something a little crazy i always try and spot him and teach him till he gets good. i think this scares many people i know. :LOL

mamafern- i understand about kids not getting along and the stress that comes w/. it's really draining to be watching 100% of the time. i feel tired just thinking about it!


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

I wrote a long post while I was on fern's half-working computer, and it dissapeared, but just was going to say, yep, those 2 years olds are not going to get along for quite awhile. I'm at my gramas house right now, it's so bad. We can't even hang out together (fern and I) because of these babies. It's hard because haeven and elwynn are not at all equal in size, so for me, I don't really have to worry about my baby getting hurt in their scuffles, she just pushes him over with two fingers, but elwynn bites. Haeven just goes near him sometimes, and he screams like she is hurting him, so she promptly lives up to this expectation. It is totally







s. So while I was there, I stayed in my room with haeven, and then the babies were fighting *under the door!!!!!!!!* This is (i think) Karma, as my brother and I fought all the time, and my mom was always telling us to stop (single mom). And my mom hates this even more, I think, that her grandchildren now fight.*sigh* Any wise words?


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

jaza, how long are you visiting? if it is within two weeks, i would say meet at more neutral territories, like not fern's place, and any possible outside because the sensory enrichment can calm the dynamic. outside parks have always been safest for me but also most boring with least amenities. if it is for awhile, then i think that they can reach a kind of accord.

but honestly, it sounds like it is too much for the both of you, that it is depleting your energy. i write that with all of my deepest sympathy because i have been there so many times and still deal with it. but knowing that limit is a power you can work with. i suggest outings with others invited like jaz's mum. they two of them will act different around a different person whether adult or child. and parks have other kids so they don't feel compelled to have to play with each other. walks with separate strollers. i know it is cold but inside usually riles my kids so i have to be choosy and careful with restaurants and other public places. is there a university near you? i find the college near me to be a very neutral and grand place to take my kids - lots of public childproof structures and few know it all adults and running space and we can play out knowing we can go in at any time. other places for me are governmental structures like grounds at the capitol and other public spaces.

as for fern's home (since i'm sure y'll wil be there at some point again!), elwynn's special things will have to be put away for safekeeping, and bluntly, it has much to do with your coping skills fern. i have the impression of an introverted (gaining energy from quiet and alone) and artistic sensibility....that in my experience does not cope with change easily, and with the combination of elwynn's personality, is perhaps quite a big shock for boisterous haeven. (it takes me two weeks to get adjusted to changes i invoke myself like i'm just getting used to my semiclean house). and you jaz have a baby and are coping with not being home so you have much to cope with as well.

one of you may have to shop for a few items for neutral play to crack open when they are together like a pack of stickers to cut into strips or balloons and a balloon pump or a couple flashlights. having other loved ones over can ease the dynamic, or having a more structured occasion like a party with cake and perhaps a sisterhood ritual. if you have a better sense of purpose and pace they will feel more comfortalbe if you are comfortable with a set pattern. kids do need limits to feel safe, and some habits do make things easier. like my kids expect to eat as soon as they get to granny's or amah's house. and at my friend jessica's, they always take at least one bath each. and usually that happens around the time the two of us have a cup of coffee.

a long shot in the dark, since i have never met or talked with you personally. if you can agree with each other that you know you are both doing your best and you love and accept each other no matter what, then things will go fine. the kids are too young to remember and i promise years from now you will either be laughing about their interactions or you will have forgotten. sometimes we have to see our kids as pure wild animal creatures and it is a beautiful thing.

love casina


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## mum5 (Apr 10, 2004)

Hi mamas. I am kind of new to this board, but not to MDC. I have 1 dd, December 3rd 2004, and am 37 weeks pg right now, so we shall see!!

I did not read all the posts, way too many, and too much for my preggo brain to take in all at once!

Anyway, just wanted to get your input on this problem that is going on in our house.
DD is such a sweet girl, really compasionate and happy, but lately ( since Christmas ) has been saying NO and NOW lots, but in a screaming bratty kind of way, and to everything. Suddenly a couple of days ago she didn't want to listen to anything that we asked her to do, eat, get dressed, just normal things like that. Everything is a battle. We have tried to explain to her in many ways that no and now are not words to be used in a bad way, that we don't talk like that etc. but it is just not working.
I would not really be concerned , but it seems to be spreading into everything that she does, and we just want to nip this horrible bratty behaviour in the bud right now.

Any suggestions?
Thanks so much, Jasmine


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ella-makes-3*
Hi mamas. I am kind of new to this board, but not to MDC. I have 1 dd, December 3rd 2004, and am 37 weeks pg right now, so we shall see!!









Wow-- how'd you manage that?









Last night, I developed a sudden and terrible migraine. It was bad enough that if my sister hadn't been fighting with her ex, I'd have asked her to take me to the ER for a shot of demerol. It was absolutely horrific, and I was out of practice for dealing with it since I haven't had a headache like that since I was pregnant with BeanBean. I'm thinking that this is a sign of my period's imminent return. Blech.

BeanBean patted me gently on the head while I was writhing in pain and said "You wanna cry, mamma?"







He was such a doll. Then he and his sister both curled up on top of me and fell asleep. It's really cool how they do that-- on some level, they know that something is wrong and that the best thing for them to do is get very quiet and sleep, but they have to be touching mamma so they know that I'm alright.







I stuck them on their boobs and they passed out promptly.

My little man was very loud last night after we got home. He just couldn't relax, and Mike was tense and miserable (it was 3 am) from staying up too late. I finally got him calm long enough to get his sister back to sleep, and I took him to pee (which was what he really needed, despite his assertions to the contrary). Then he nursed back to sleep, eventually. It was a long night, though.


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

rynna, hows the sore boob?

just popping in to say hi mamas, Zoom isn't feeling well today


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *punkprincessmama*
rynna, hows the sore boob?

just popping in to say hi mamas, Zoom isn't feeling well today









Thanks for asking. It still hurts, but it's nothing on the migraine i had last night, from which I am still recovering. I hope Zoom feels better soon.


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Now I have a sore boob! It's kinda under my armipit on my left side. I have a warm compress on it, but I'm not even sure what the heck the pain is, so I'm not sure if this will work. I once had a clogged milk duct when Zach was really little, and it kinds feels like that, only I can't feel where it's clogged (no hard spots), it just hurts. Weird.

Jas and Fern- Zachary is always a total brat to my mom. It irks me so!!! He knows her very well, and we go over to their house all the time, but for some unknown reason he is just rude when we go over there. It is so frustrating and it seems like there is nothing I can do about it- I think the more I want Zachary to be nice the more he likes to be mean. Sometimes I can give him a little talk before we go in and he'll be good, but most of the time he's clingy and screaming and a total BRAT. So I can relate to your little problem of the cousins not getting along. They almost sense that we want them to be good, so they have to do the total opposite, YK? Good luck you two.

Solsticemama, I hope your move is going smoothly. You must be lost in boxes and unpacking and cleaning. We miss you.


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

ella-makes-3: did you mean dec.2002?









well, i woke up today and with my new yoga book from the library in hand did 1 hour and 15 mins of stretching and breathing. gosh it felt good. ive done all of the poses lots before, mostly in classes, but i never seem to be able to motivate myself to do it at home and its so hard to get out.. but i just woke up and pee'd and went into my room, shut the door and did it. elwynn was so good! he only came knocking at the door once saying "momma? yoga?" and i said yes, ill be done soon! and he went away to play. now im eating breakfast and feeling really good about myself. its amazing how a bit of yoga helps.. i walk a lot but thats about all of the exercise i get..and thought walking is great i often feel like the rest of my body is stuck.. im stiff in places ive never been before, but i know after a few days ill be all stretched out. im going to do it every morning, if possible, and at least 4.. its my goal.
















s to all you mommas with sore boobs.. ive never experienced that.. ive always had a problem with not enuff milk, not too much..

carrie, my little dude is sick too..









rynna: eli is so sweet!


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Casina~ Thanks for the advice. We should try and do some neutral territory playtime. It's so rainy here though. It's ok when we go out, cause the babies are in their respective strollers/shopping carts/ slings.

Fern~ maybe I could come over tonight after elwynn is in bed and we could watch that movie we rented.


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

sounds good..except that elwynn didnt go to bed till 11 lat night...ak! call me!


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Hi mommas. Just surfacing to say hi. I've had the flu all week, a strong dose of it and am just now feeling able to attend to the regular rhythms of the day. Everyone sounds good and utterly engaged with their various worlds.

The big news here is







:...the







is shining. I know y'all thought it might be something more dramatic but what is more dramatic than a star billions of miles away warming the cheek of a mom in such a way that the warmed cheek is pulled into a smile into a laugh into a grateful heart...


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## mum5 (Apr 10, 2004)

Hah ha, bet you can guess that I am pg right! Duh, yes I meant 2002.
I am still trying to adjust to 2004 I guess, when we are in 2005 already.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

oh rose!! i'm so sorry that you've been ill!!!







s


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

ella, i would recommend that you focus on what you love about your child. i remember one time at a park me and a friend watched a two persistently put sand in her hair. when we got closer, her mom kept saying, "don't put sand in your hair!". even if she heard the Don't, which i doubt, talking about what NOT to do only hones and focuses the idea. not and now are perfectly valid words in the english language. screaming in an ugly way you will have to ignore in the jolliest manner, and say what you would like her to say, in the kind of voice you want to hear, like "oh, you mean, mamma, please give me some water". which is a big sentence for a two but i hope you get the idea. some of her behaviour you will have to accept for her age. i've already mentioned before how i feel about asking kids and how it can overwhelm them.

i still do the parroting with all members of my family, even dh. i also pretend i am deaf and wait until they come in the room i am in. this is after much time spent learning to go in the room they are in and catch their attention and look them in the eye and then speak rather than yell from another room.

i recommend reading easy to love difficult to discipline by becky bailey. and being around some other children and moms. most moms are happy to commiserate about dealing with the harder parts of parenting and i think you would benefit from knowing that it is a global thing. it is one thing for me to read it and talk about it email but getting reassurance in the flesh can do wonders for me. it is part of being two to assert herself and defy you. you can either accept it and guide her or quash it by making her afraid. i have never heard of a loving child, open with emotions, that has never exhibited patience testing behaviour. sometimes it happens at two, sometimes it happens it happens at three, sometimes at six it just depends on the person. don't let anyone tell you otherwise. learn to treasure her strong emotions and put them to assertive use. meanwhile you are about to have a baby. i personally encourage that you let things go so that you can open up to a new world of four in the family, and enjoy the moment by moment until the change, and then enjoy the moment by moment afterwards.

i recently read a young adult fantasy book called the golden compass it says, i do not remember the exact quote, that the role of the old is to be anxious about the young, and the role of the young is to scorn the anxiety of the old.


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## mum5 (Apr 10, 2004)

Thanks for the advice Casina. We are trying to focus on the positive, and not so much on the negative with her, unless it is really terrible. I think that she is testing her limits and our limits too!! Yesterday was pretty bad, but today I woke up in dread, and she was the same old Ella. I guess I have so much going on in my head right now that is out of my control, that I can see this problem unfolding before my eyes, that I feel that I really need to stop, or tame down in some respect.

I do have friends that I can talk to about problems that I have with whatever, but it is nice to get some differnt reactions to problems. I also think that many children that behave negatively infront of her confuses her.
For instance, we go to a playgroup on Mondays. There is a 2 year old there who is very aggressive, hitting, pushing and snatching toys frrom other children. His mother doesn't really take any productive measures to try to control his behaviour, apart from telling him " No, give that toy back" and that is pretty much about it. So dd sees this behaviour, has toys taken from her, and nothing is done about it, so this will confuse her right?
Needless to say, we have avoided this playgroup for a while, went back on Monday as we are going stir crazy as it is pretty cold here, but won't be going back until we can work out a solution with the other Mother.
Any way I am writting a novel.
I will check out the book too. Thanks again Jasmine


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

i disagree. yes, kids can pick up new experiments to try at home, but they cannot contract behaviours like terminal illnesses without the parents feeding the bahaviour. you will have to trust that your dynamic with your child is magnimous compared to an extra few hours a week around other people's interactions.

of course, none of us should purposely hang out with things that make us feel icky. but that simple description of mother could be me. it is not necessary and possibly embarrassing to both to make a big deal out of a toy. a toy in the five minutes of a two year old's life is not a big deal in the wheel of life.

it is part of the nature of a two to do these trying behaviours. that's why it has been coined the terrible two, and a doctor will call it the negative stage. it cannot be actually controlled because at the source, this is how the child learns to be apart from mamma, and a bit young to know what being fair is about. it is universal for almost every child on the earth. you can control how you react and control how you want to guide her. good luck working things out with the playgroup. it is hard to mother the aggressive child in this world too. (at least he gives the toy back. ruby screams and holds on tighter. sometimes throws it. reed would hit the child. clay.... i guess i was never in that situation when clay was two.)

but taking things is something i still deal with concerning older children, learning about property and respect for others and figuring out different boundaries people have. it is not just a two phase. it is a code we learn all our lives. i'm also of the opinion that same age play is overrated. my kids still play better with different ages. playgroups are really for the mothers.

but then, i remember feeling exactly that protective with my first. it has helped me much to find my selfconfidence and feel my way to how i want to mother - what i feel is most important is that my children feel loved. and maybe it took three kids for me to figure all this out SO FAR and six years to feel less stressed as a mamma. it got to where i felt i would have just died from the stress so i have learned to let go of control. which still takes constant practice. but i'm happier and enjoying my kids more than ever.


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

elwynn has been being so cute the last few days.. ive been really sick..and i think that he knows it..he keeps saying "mom?" "love you mom"







and saying "thanks mom, welcome mom" after i help him with something..

he isnt feeling well either.. at night i cough sooo much and i feel like im suffocating because the oxygen feels like its not getting to my lungs.. its scary! i dont usually get sick and i never get coughs..

i was supposed to go visit friends and family in vancouver today but im just not feeling up to it.. one of us has been sick since we got home from victoria on new years eve and its getting old fast..

well, i should go feed my little guy.. he woke up this morning and sat on the couch with a blanket and a book for almost an hour before i got up.. what a little munchkin.


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## Sandrine (Apr 14, 2004)

HI! Sorry for not being on here this wk. We are not having a great wk. DDs are not sleeping well at all and I guess that by today I'm so tired. I wrote a vent on our group board.








To everyone. I hope you all had a better day. And to those that are sick I hope it goes aways real quick.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

BeanBean and BooBah have just gotten over a very minor cold. They don't seem to get really sick (knock wood) and this was actually BooBah's first cold, so I'm okay with it. Neither even ran a fever, they just had runny noses and a slight cough; BeanBean slept with Vick's for 2 nights, BooBah for 3. I had to blow my nose a few times, and had a bit of sinus congestion and a dry, hacking cough but nothing that was huge or incapacitating or anything.

BeanBean is also super cute these days. Thank goodness, because if he wasn't adorable...







: Let's just say that I've got a really good, first-hand idea of why babies and toddlers are as adorable as they are, from an evolutionary standpoint.

BooBah now looks so different from me that people no longer even make a pretext of saying she looks like I do. :LOL I'm sure many of them just wonder where I got the Amish baby from. :LOL

I'm desperately thirsty for Turkey Hill Lemonade, and since today is payday Mike will (if he knows what's good for him!) bring some home for me today. Thank goodness.

And now I need to see if our washing machine has been fixed, and we can finally wash diapers, which have been stacking up in *huge* numbers and which threaten to overwhelm the apartment. We don't seem to have so many when they're all clean, but when they're all dirty the seem to be a lot bigger.







I'm actually hand washing covers and filling them with Gerber's, two and three at a time.







Yick.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

just had to chime in and say that people go on and on about the terrible twos, but this is just the most incredible time, imo!!! dd is just growing on so many levels- it is astounding to watch. so exciting!!!!








and







s to all the mamas!!!! and may we one day sleep. (this , from a mama who was awoken before 5am today)


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

mona: i have to agree with you! this age is amazing..

there are moments when im overwhelmed by his energy and i dont quite understand what he wants..but mostly im just amazed. i love watching him learn about the world..i love hearing him say i love you mom..


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

hi mommas-

we are going to see sesame street live tomorrow! i think ga is going to love it. she loves any kind of live show, singing dacning story telling whatever. and this has ELMO. i never though i would be so excited to be going to sesame street live. (this from the girl whose children were never going to watch tv







: )

sandrine-

i saw your post on the other list. sorry to reply here but i am in a hurry. it sounds like you dd might have a milk allergy which is different from lactose intollerance. an allergy involves the milk protein. ga has an allergy to milk protein and those are some of her symptoms. feel free to pm me if you want more information

amy


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

ellamakes3~ That baby in your playgroup that runs amuck could be my DD. I like to be out with people and do things. I cannot control my DD to a large extent. She's two. But I know how it feels to be the momma of the violent toddler







It's not fun.

Haeven threw the dog down the stairs today.







: I guess she wanted some attention, but GAWD! I really feel like I should be to blame for that, but I don't throw her down the stairs, or hurt her. I think she just doesn't understand yet about animals having feelings. She can be a little :devil: sometimes.


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

mammajazza-

i know how you feel b/c i too have the toddler that everyone is afraid of







: she has been in the [hase of grabbing kids faces very hard. we tried gentle etc but finally had to go to we don't touch faces. which means i have to give up that cute way she strokes my face while she is nursing. we've had a couple of good weeks then today at daycare she grabbed a babies face







i get so mad b/c i totally feel like it is some reflection on us being bad parents. i don't know what else to do!

just wanted you to know you are not alone maybe we should get haeven and ga together to duke it out









amy


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## mum5 (Apr 10, 2004)

Oh mamas, I am sure that it is not fun, but I am sure that it is not a reflection of your parenting. It is one thing to be a 2 year old, and dd is a very spirited child, and would not have it anyother way. I love every age that they are at. I keep thinking how can it get any better, yet it does.
I did not intend to bring up issues that I have with other parenting styles, as I think that parenting is hard enough, without having to worry that people are judging you.
I guess that I just wanted to put the whole picture out there, to get some real feedback, and thanks to all the advice.

People do go on about the "terrible two's" and that just gets my back up for some reason. I don't know, maybe I'm just crazy with pregnancy hormones or something, but I just try to think how the world is to them, through their eyes. So many new and exciting/ scary things to explore, yet it is still kind of hard to express how they feel, what they want to do. It just seems the instant that they cry, or get cranky, then it's " Oh, she must be 2!! " I don't know, just annoys me.

Anyway, the vent is over. Have a good weekend. Jasmine


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## Sandrine (Apr 14, 2004)

Amy~ Thanks. DD2 is allergic to milk too. I have been dairy free for the past 9mths or so. It's so hard. I miss ice cream and cheese and chocolate chips cookies etc... I sometimes count how many more mths before I can have a big, big party and eat that stuff. lol lol

DD1 doesn't have much symptoms apart from maybe having a upset tummy, and waking up atleast a few times at night. Which makes me think it's more an intolerance. She's been diary free for about 9mths too and I thought that maybe she was over it being 2 and all. But I guess not. Before that her symptoms were waking up at night, vomiting at least once a mth sometimes twice. She did that probably when she had to much dairy in one day. Like ice cream and her daily bottle of milk. I don't remember if she had anymore symtoms. I'm going to check a bit more on intolerence to see if she fit more there or as an allergy to dairy.

Do you have some info or site about allergies??? I know about POAKS(I think that its) the yahoo group.


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## saritasmile (Sep 5, 2004)

YAY! i finally figure out how to show you guys pictures (i think). see some pics ofrazi!!


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

i've got goosebumps from the pictures. but as tender as i might feel towards the sleeping and sling fotos, i find the wicked ale with cell phone razi priceless.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Sarita~ What a cutey


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## saritasmile (Sep 5, 2004)

oh casina i'm so glad you liked that one...i almost didn't put it on cuz i didn't want cps called or something :LOL


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

:LOL i totally laughed at the one with the beer bottle and cell phone.. i just took a few pics of haeven pretending to drink beer.. we should put them up together!

so elwynn just pooped on the potty! he said "POOP" the sat on his potty and went.. he's done it before but this is 2 times in less than a week.. its a record for him.

i have been trying really hard to get him to use the potty all the time and he wakes up dry in the morning and the last 2 nights went to bed without diaper or undies!! but pooping is a different story for him. he usually holds it till i eventually put a diaper on him then goes when im occupied doing something else.. so im very happy. i give him a little organic peppermint candy when he goes..for incentive i guess.. and we celebrate









so.. do your little ones need you to remind them to use the potty? or do they do it on their own?

elwynn really needs me to remind him. he holds pee and he hasnt pooped on the floor in a long time, but i think that if i didnt remind him he would.. just a thought.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Fern~ haeven has peed on your floor many times, so you know no one is perfect:LOL, but I did hear that usually it takes boys longer to train then girls.


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

jazz, yeah







and she pees WAY more than elwynn does :LOL

its weird... i just remembered a dream i had last night. i dreamt that elwynn woke up in the night and started peeing but his pee was red and i got freaked out them i realised that we have been eating beets for days and thats why..it wasnt blood, just beet dyed! im not sure why im remembering this now...

i know that every child takes their own time..but when elwynn asked to poop on the potty when we were visiting frinds months ago i was sure that that was it.. he's potty trained!..and its been quite a while since and its still in process..

but i dont want to rush him to grow up any faster.. i love this age and i will be so sad when he is all grown up and doesnt want me to "nuggle" him or kiss him 100 times a day..


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## **guest** (Jun 25, 2004)

I must say that I'm envious of those who are actively potty learning or have finished. My ds has no interest in it at all. I've tried lots of things but he just doesn't like to sit on the toilet or his potty. He HAS peed in the toilet a couple of times but i'm pretty sure it was coincidental. He was surprised when he started peeing so he stopped in mid stream. LOL. Then, after sitting there for awhile, he got down, walked out of the bathroom and onto the carpeting and peed. He does this a lot. So, I've decided to back off for awhile. I'm looking for a nanny position and I really hoped that I would be well on the way to potty learning with ds when I start a new job. Doesn't look promising though. heh.
Hey, is there a forum where moms can post that they are looking for a nanny job??

Blizzard watching,
Liz


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## Sandrine (Apr 14, 2004)

DD1 is so not interested in the potty. She was doing great in aug before DD2 baptism when my in-laws came for it. She acts like she is scared of it and cries and cries. So I stop. She was doing so well too. Mostly all her pees were done in the potty. I thinking of maybe trying again this summer but we'll see how she is doing. I'll wait until she shows signs of wanting to go.

Sarita~ he a cutie.

We had a way better night, last night. Jas slept most of it with only waking up once or twice. DD2 slept better too. she nurse at 9:30 then I gave her a snack at around 10pm then nurse her again. She slept until 2:30am. YAY!! Almost 4hrs. It felt good to wake up to feed her again. Then she lasted until 5:30am. So Not too bad for feedings. I'm going to stuff her up lots today. I guessing she not eating enough.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaFern*
so.. do your little ones need you to remind them to use the potty? or do they do it on their own?

elwynn really needs me to remind him. he holds pee and he hasnt pooped on the floor in a long time, but i think that if i didnt remind him he would.. just a thought.

When we're at home, BeanBean generally remembers to go by himself. If it seems to me like a long time has elapsed, I'll ask him if he needs to use the potty and he'll either run for the bathroom or say "no thanks."







When we're not home, he's usually distracted so I ask him, and encourage the IL's to ask him, too. More often than not, though, he tells us he needs to go.

He asked us, just as we were leaving town, to use the bathroom; Mike had put a diaper on him, so he told him to use the diaper. BeanBean kind of sighed and wasn't thrilled with it. When we got to the IL's (two hours later) he *ran* for the bathroom-- his diaper was just a teensy bit wet, and he peed like crazy. It's too cold for us to stop and let him use the baby bjorn by the side of the road, though, like we did during the summer.









I love the picture of Razi in the sling. I wish I could figure out how to get my kids on my back. I have a really hard time with it, and I suspect it's because my huge boobs get in the way.


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

we are SNOWED IN! 24 inches and still snowing ....huricane force winds.... boston school already closed tomorrow AND tuesday...it would be fun if it wasn't too cold to go outside


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

i like the sling picture too.. sarita you are beautiful! a glowing momma









rynna: elwynn is always distracted! he is always soooo busy, unless he is sleeping in which case im sure he is dreaming of being busy..i guess thats why he needs reminders.. in fact usually he says he doesnt need to go but i get the feeling that he does and then ill put him on and he will go!









but i suppose its better than using diapers.. now we have maybe 2 in a day which is a huge difference.. and way less laundry. which means less water used.. im becoming so conscious of how much water we use in a single day..with baths and dishes and laundry and showers and washing hands and washing bums... its soooo much water.. precious water that is not endless as much as we wish it was.. i dont want elwynn to grow up and have babies and have no clean clear beautiful water to drink and swim.. not that the water that pours from our tap is clean or fresh...but you know what i mean..

so im thinking about having a big garage sale before i move.. since i will be moving from a big house to a tint bedroom! well living room and kitchen too but they will be shared and my sister already has been living there almost a year..but you know what? i am sooo excited about just having a small space.. i like that elwynn has his own room now, but he is mostly night weened and i actually prefer sleeping with him.. i just dont like him waking 10 times to nurse.. and i am looking forward to living in a place where when i walk down the street i see people i know and love and i get hugs 15 times a day..and have spontaneous cofee dates with folks i havnt seen in a while.. i wish i was moving sooner now that ive made the decission to finally do it.. its been over 3 years since i have lived there..

the area where i am moving is this beautiful microclimate of alternative culture.. there are lots of amazing small buisnesses and health food stores and there are always kids hanging out in the park playing music and drumming and babies running around and mommas nursing and slinging their tiny ones.. and where ever you look there are weird and wonderful people most of whom know eachother or at least know someone who knows them.. and coffee shops with all organic coffee and nice staff who talk to you and smile and sometimes give you free coffee.. it will be so different from here..


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Sarita- it was nice to see the darling pictures of Razi. My favorite was the beer can cell phone one too!!! (I have more than a few pictures of my kids "drinking" beer- hey they like it!) I also liked the camping one, what a sweet picture. He looks so much like Tavis, it's funny. I've said it before but your son is absolutely adorable!

Crystal has been REALLY sick, she missed a whole week of school. I'm trying to keep her moist and loose so the mucous doesn't settle in to her lungs- she could get pneumonia and die. She also has a heart defect so if any bacetrial growth settles on her valve she could get really sick too. So I've been busy trying to stay on top of keeping her airway semi-clean. The little ones haven't gotten anything yet, they are so strong. DH and I are taking echinacea and vitamin C to avoid getting anything, so we're keeping our fingers crossed.

Zachary has started calling me "Mommy". He'll say "Mommy?" and then look at me to see if I'll answer to that. I think he got it from Caillou- he calls his mama "Mommy", and some of Zach's friends use Mommy instead of Mama. I've always been Mama so it's kinda weird being Mommy now. I love to listen to him talk, though, so he can call me anything he wants







. He talks about airplanes morning, noon and night. He's starting to "read" where he'll bring the book close to his face and talk gibberish, then look at me and nod and point to the pictures







. Last night my brother and SIL carried the kids out to the van for me and buckled them into their carseats and as they were getting out of the van Zachary said "be feefo!" (be careful) It was so cute, everyone laughed... Right now he's scribbling on some scrap paper with a pen- a very beloved "toy" we only bring out on special ocassions (when Mama wants to check her e-mail!) :LOL

Hope everyone is getting over their respective illnesses. Drink some tea and put your feet up and think of me, hee hee!


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Look what I did!


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

rynna: lovely! what kind of wool did you use?

we just walked to the coffee shop to have coffee and i ordered a decaf..and she asked what size and i said "um.. BIG" and the mug she gave me was







HUGE. oh my, i rarely drink a cup of coffee let alone a jug.. oh well ive learned my lesson.. never say big when you dont want big









now elwynn is napping in his stroller..so i get to be a MDC bum


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Sarita, nice to see pics of y'all again. I'm going to show ds and see if he remembers our time together. Rena just sent me some pics of Mukti and Razi. Razi was running down the path carrying 2 huge water bottles.

It's sunny again today but this morning when we were out it was sooo cold. Amy, your weather report brought back some memories of cold snowy childhood.

Rynna, pretty longies.
DecemberSun sending some healing vibes your way, momma.


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

wow I dont even know where to start, there has been so much "talk" going on lately.

Rynna, I'm glad you are feeling better sore-breast wise and gosh those are some beautiful longies you made! What talent!

Sarita, thank you so much for sharing the photos of Razi, what a love!!

Fern, I love that you are so excited about moving.

Casina I've been meaning to ask you to lecture me on Rainbow Lights Prenatals. I've seen them, and know there stuff is good cause Zoom takes their children's multi, but geez they are expensive







:

Amy - wow!! Hope your staying warm.

Liz - Zoom isn't anywhere near interested in potty learning either. It seemed like she was this summer, but







She sometimes sits on her potty, or says she has to go and runs and sits on her potty, but then she'll just sit there for ages and nothing happens.







I honestly couldn't care less, except that I'm having a very hard time dealing with poopy diapers these days. i know it's a pregnancy thing though, cause I've changed tons of poopy diapers on people much larger than Zoom....but that doesn't make it any easier.

Zoomba still isn't feeling good







She had a fever for about two days, but besides being a little whiney and nursing constantly she was acting fine. Then the fever subsided and she has had a runny nose and sounds congested and is more whiney and clingy. She's nursing more than her usual twice a day, but I wish she'd nurse more.

I had been wondering is she was nursing less because she is naturally weaning or if it was because my milk tasted funny due to being pregnant. (I haven't yet lost my milk) When she had the fever she was nursing non stop though, so that makes me think (along with some other stuff) that she is just naturally weaning.

And the kids is just learning and growing by leaps and bounds every day. It is mind wobbling, it is amazing, it is beautiful


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

Oh i forgot to mention ...yesterday before the storm hit we took GA to see sesame street live. SHE LOVED IT! we went with some of the families from our playgroup. most of the kids enjoyed it but sat pretty still and took it all in. GA on the other hand was dancing in the aisles the whole time. This morning she woke up and said 'mommy daddy, ga go see elmo dancing? It was pricey but it was her birthday present from us.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

toilet training is not usually an instant thing. it depends on the kid and the situation. i have one that finally used the toilet at all after turning four. then one that wanted before two but i did not have the energy for right before ruby was born. ruby will be soon. and some kids have great holding abilities, and some have none. knowing their body i've learned to respect though i still yell at clay to go pee i get so frustrated with him. i know a couple of boys that have held their poop which is always a clear reminder not to interfere and have too much talking about what one should do.

in fact i had a new view friday at the park. all the toddler mammas were complaining about everything they can't do and how sleep deprived and wanting alone time and so on. we know it. anyway, i was sitting to a gracious lady with a six boy, and she has been trying for a 2nd baby for years now. her desire is so clear. and she is so cool, like she has accepted that she may not have more. but thinking about her viewpoint when everyone was complaining, that was a gift.

i get the rainbow lights from vitacost which is not a homeade type store but they are a little cheaper. i know i need them when i forget to take them. i'm still surprised at the change my dh's energy level since i got him some no iron formula a few months ago. i didn't even get him one of those proenergy men pills.

i've got gardening sickness. i skipped it for two years but i usually get weird poring over seed catalogs and planning an eden.

for me wearing a baby on the back with a sling is a lot easier with a pouch doesn't cut in as much. rings or not, i have to put the rings or shoulder gather beyond my shoulder on my back, put the kid on the hip, then slide the whole thing around. with a ring sling i can tighten it since it feels different on the back. i know what you mean about the boobs rynna. it has always kept me far away from using a didy and other cross front carriers.

coffee and beer. i have personally classifed them as nutritionally not that harmful and not that beneficial. at least they have thousands of years of consumption. i would vote for them over margarine or splenda or refined sugar and tons of other things we easily put in our body or subject our bodies to. it is amazing how things get tabooed.


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

elwynn pooped on the potty again!!

he has gone from 2 poops a day to 1.. which i dont really underrtsand..but after supper he went over to his potty and went and i didnt even notice till he asked me to "wipe" him!
what a monkey..


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## saritasmile (Sep 5, 2004)

thanks so much for all the compliments mama's!! now i don't feel so weird looking at your pictures









razi is funny about the potty. if he doesn't have any pants on he'll go in the toilet every time and has for awhile. but if anything is around his waste; dipe, pants, chonies (what we call undies) he'll pee. i feel pretty laid back about it but today he insisted on wearing chonies and so we went outside all bundled up to do some things and of course he peed and so i had to bring him in and change everything from chonies to shoes







i tried not to be annoyed but really i was...







: the only real stipulation i have about potty training is that he's all done before i get prego again (not that that's even a plan in the near future). i was 'morning' sick the whole pregancy.

mama fern- where are you going to again?? i want to live there!! maybe you could 'marry' tavis and find a guy friend of yours to marry me so we could be canadian. :LOL

sorry about the cold for you mama's and not to brag but yesterday we all went to sedona (25 miles from home) and hiked in short sleeves and sandals in almost 70 degrees!!! i needed that so bad. winter is a hard time for me. i'm kinda crazy about sandals.







funny thing is today we went hiking in the snow back behind where we live.

solcticemama: we miss you guys and we've recently gotten pictures from lynne from camp. razi really likes to look at them!

eilonwy- i think that picture was just about the only time razi has gone for the back carry







i love those longies!! they are so cute!

i don't know if you guys know the shaker song 'simple gifts' but i love it and have been singing it lots and razi goes "gift to be simple" and it's so cute. also the other day i said come get your pants on and he says rather loudly " i don't want any pants on!" he doesn't use 'i' sentences very often but it's kinda weird to here it. he sounded like a boy not a baby!!














,yk?

leah, sending healing vibes your families way!!

wowee, this is the longest post i think i've ever written!!


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## saritasmile (Sep 5, 2004)

p.s. razi hasn't taken a nap during the day for 5 days.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

i'm in unreliable nap territory myself. it's been cold for the past two nights, which mean i'm wearing socks. i hate having my feet covered. but then i get weird if my head hasn't been shaved within the month and i can't feel the air on my skin, though i'm fine with my cool hat i knitted. i know i'm supposed to be thankful i'm in the deep south. we have played outside most of the week. but then there's about six months for the summer that we don't go outside much.

loved the britches rynna.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

BeanBean will wake up atan obscene hour if he has a nap most days. Sometimes he sleeps anyway, though. It really puts me in a bind.

He's super needy this week. It's driving me crazy. If he doesn't get what he wants right away, he screams in my ear. He still doesn't really understand that if he screams while BooBah is trying to sleep, it will take me longer to get to him. How long until he actually understands that concept?!







I'm totally going to lose it.

I had a talk with Mike last night about how we deal with BeanBean, and how his father deals with BeanBean. We really need to work on this, as a family, because I get frustrated and raise my voice and that doesn't help and Mike gets frustrated (after *much* less time dealing with him) and raises his voice.. FIL is always assuming the worst of BeanBean and that pisses me off something fierce; "he's going to dent the stove!" "he's going to break the window!" "he's going to ____!" BeanBean has never done any of these things. I got snippy with him towards the end. When he said that BeanBean was going to break the window, I told him "He's not strong enough to break that window, and if he is you need to write to the company and get your money back because it's defective."







: As if a two year old could break a reinforced sliding door!







I just want to kick him sometimes, I can't stand the way he talks to BeanBean. It's like now that he can talk he expects him to behave like a 20 year old, and he feels that since Mike and I won't "train" him he should step in.









Anyway, I'm working on not raising my voice, but I am so frustrated trying to meet the needs of both kids sometimes. I really feel that BooBah should have the priority, but then I think BeanBean didn't ask for a sibling... I don't know. I try to divide my time equally between them, but I don't think there is an equitable solution. And both of them want *me*; noone else will do, even if there were someone else around, which there isn't.







I feel horrible.


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## saritasmile (Sep 5, 2004)

oh rynna,


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

it must be so hard to find a ballanced harmonious way to be there for both kids 100% when they are both so young.. sometimes i wish so much that i had another baby, but then i realise that elwynn is still so little and still so needy..i dont think that he would cope well with another little being needing me sooo much.. it is a lesson that i need to learn because sometimes my hormones talk over anything else that i know in my mind and heart..








rynna you are such a good momma.. be gentle with yourself.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Rynna, it can be difficult, I know.







there is so much more stress with two babies so close together. I think trying to tandem nurse and cLw is a *LOT* more of a challenge than just nursing one. You are awesome to give your babies that gift.


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Many







Rynna.

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Mamajaza**
I think trying to tandem nurse and cLw is a *LOT* more of a challenge than just nursing one. You are awesome to give your babies that gift.

I agree, although I'm not tandeming yet. I plan to, and hope to CLW as well. I have been thinking about this a lot, because I see from you mamas that tandeming can be a challenge. I really hope I am up to it. I know all the benefits, and honestly can't see weaning Zoom, I just don't think I could do that, she seems to be weaning herself (slowly) but I also wonder if that will change when our new little love is here. Anyhow, I'm rambling, but what I wanted to say is that I'm worried about how *I* will hold up to the task of tandeming.

oh, my babe's crying....poor little one is still not feeling 100%


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## Sandrine (Apr 14, 2004)

Rynna. It is so hard to take care of two little ones. I'm sure that soon you will find a balance and it will get better. You're a great mama.

For me, their routine is not the same so that I can give one on one time with them. I think this helps because DD1 knows that once her sister goes for a nap, she gets all my attention. DD2 right now doesn't know the dif. I think that when dd2 will have only one nap, I will get their routine to be the same. And then I'll be able to do lots more with them and when they both nap. That's my plan.


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## hjohnson (Mar 2, 2004)

I am starting to drag. Not only am I dealing with David's reflux but he has added teething to the mix. Makes for a long night. The Pediatrician suggested that we try Prevacid since he has hit a plateau with the Zantac. We are going to see a Pediatric GI as well.

Christopher is teething as well. He has one molar in and 3 to go. They sure are taking their sweet time. Thank God for Hyland's teething tablets!


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hjohnson*
I am starting to drag. Not only am I dealing with David's reflux but he has added teething to the mix. Makes for a long night. The Pediatrician suggested that we try Prevacid since he has hit a plateau with the Zantac. We are going to see a Pediatric GI as well.

prevacid is a different class of drug than zantac; the GI is more likely to prescribe pepcid for him. my boobah takes pepcid because she's alleregic to zantac.


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## hjohnson (Mar 2, 2004)

I think Zantac smells like mouthwash. I wouldn't want to swallow the stuff.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Here's my pics. there is a new one of Haeven drinking beer







haha, just kidding. And I added some of my very own "sexy beast"http://www.picturetrail.com/mamajaza


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Heather, I had been wondering how you are doing, I'm glad you posted







I'm sorry that your little guy has reflux though. Zoom is getting her molars in too, one has barely come through so she has three more too.

Jasanna - love your pics! I love the pic of your "sexy beast" btw


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## hjohnson (Mar 2, 2004)

I am doing pretty good. I just sound like I have a frog in my throat. Christopher keeps laughing every time I talk. We are taking it easy today.

Jasanna I love the pictures as well! The baby quilts are gorgeous! I am a sucker for a good quilt. I have plans to buy a double wedding ring quilt from the Amish someday but I am going to have to spend a $1,000 to do so.

Christopher is amazing me these days. He is starting to speak in full sentences. He is also the little problem solver which means I had to baby proof some more just to fend him off. Today he opened the pantry, pushed a chair over, and climbed up onto the chair so he could reach the candy. There are somedays where I feel like I can't leave him alone for a second. I am going to put one of those door knob thingys on the pantry door. I also put one on our bedroom door so David can nap in peace. Christopher thinks that David shouldn't nap and he loves to wake him up. UGH!

I am starting to research the different Montessori schools here in Charlotte for Christopher. He is such a self-learner and I think he would thrive in that environment. He has a hissy fit if I try and show him how to do something.


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

how is everyone this morning?

the sun is shining here and elwynn and i are going to go for a long walk somewhere..

we had a huge feast last night at my place.. i made veggie pot pie and jasanna made rhubarb strawberry pie and cesar salad.. grama made the pastry! it was sooooo yummy! i love making fancy meals. the pie had cut out doves on it









there are a few new pics on our page too.. one with all 3 babies taken just a few minutes ago.

enjoy!


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## hjohnson (Mar 2, 2004)

Now that is a meal fit for a king!


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

it was mostly queens here.. elwynn is more like a prince! :LOL

but you are right!


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## hjohnson (Mar 2, 2004)

Fit for a royal family.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

I take no responsibility for the pie, actually. I just bought the strawberries.







:

Casina~ you are right about neutral territory for the babies. We went for a walk the other day and at the park they got along very nicely, other than fighting over the stroller for a moment.









I want to get some of those newer pics you took, fern. They look so cute. Haeven looks like such a big sister.

_eta: How ya like my new senior member title?_


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

sure jazz.

im so pissed off.. frustrated..annoyed..irritated...(did i miss any?)

you know how i said i was thinking od moving in with my sister...well..she is in nursing school so she decided that i should probably get elwynn vaccinated since he may be introduced to all of these diseases and flu's and stuff... well im against vaccination. my whole family knows it. ive fought with them about it before. i am not stupid, or closed minded or ignorant about vaccination..but my answer is still no..

well i ran into my auntie today..who i mostly love...and she said "i hear that youve decided to get elwynn vaccinated! im so happy" and i was like WTF?!%$&^%$ i never said that!!.. and she is known for twisting peoples words..anyways..we ended up have a 15 min. argument about me getting elwynn vaccinated..again (because we have talked baout it before, nurmerous times) and she has all of these arguments about how when she was young her friends all died from pollio and her loved has post polio and how if i dont get him vaccinated he is going to die a horrible death. i just finally walked abway. i dont ever feel like seeing her again..

why cant people mind their own buisness? i am a mother. it is my job to be the best momma i can be to my son. and i firmly believe that injecting diseases and poison into my son's body isn't okay..if he decides when he is older that he wants to get shot full of chemicals..all i can do is help him make a wise dicission.. but now i am the one making this decission.. am i wrong for feeling this way? she said that i only have "one side of the story" but i feel like people who are for vaccinations only have one side too..

i just want to scream. i feel like i should trust my intuition and instincts..but maybe i am wrong..


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Fern~ You are doing the right thing by not vaxing, I believe. Elwynn is such a sensitive little soul, imagine if all of a sudden he had all those foreign antibodies *etc.* injected into his body. He would probably have some sort of reaction, I imagine. Believe in what you feel is right, and don't let anyone sway you. I guess you're probably doing research now, which is good. You can throw a whole pile of the real truths about vaxing at your family. Hopefully they are open-minded enough to consider the validity.

what I meant about the pie was that I didn't make any part of it... I was on the computer.:LOL


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

but you DID make the salad and it was great!


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

well, my folks and inlaws pretend like they know nothing about the no vax after a few shocking and annoying instances. my folks also pretend like we are not actually homeschooling except for when my mom brings me over pop literature like magazine articles and crap. i'm always tempted to push on her tons of stuff to read about why i am doing things the way i do but i don't want to sink to her level. fern, if i were you i would have a quiet casual talk with your sister about your limits and ask her to try to respect them and accept that you parent the way you do regardless of her judgment.

rynna, it the two books- patterns of thought that helped me when i had clay were the continuum concept, and a new beginning by abraham-hicks. in fact i didn't read any parenting books for a year after those. my basic interpretation of the first is: live your life and your children can live beside you. 2nd is: our thoughts create our reality.
maybe you can get something from them. i still also stand by easy to love difficult to disclipline and the five love languages of children.

as for eli understanding that he is bothering you, i wouldn't hold my breath. it depends on the kids of course, and that he is a boy makes it less likely than a girl. perhaps there are new patterns you can teach him when he screams in your ear, which means you stay calm and sweet and turn over and look at your sparkly first baby and take his arm and put it on your arm and show him how to rub your arm the way you like that you really like. and maybe you can put a book in front of him and have him tell you the story, if he is capable. ruby is but neither of my boys are.

you may also be able to buy a little time by using a big hourglass timer and saying that you will get up when the twenty minutes are up. that way both of you know what is going to happen. geez i should try that. reed and sleep is one of the reasons tv entered the picture, since he would not play by himself and detest being alone still. and also happens to be starving when he wakes up. maybe beanbean is that way and you can set up something for him to grab and eat.
reed used to just kick me in the head, and now he find other ways to wake me up that are less angering but equally annoying. now reed is a bit behind on the emotional maturity scale. the best label-description i can give you is sensory intergration dysfunction. but i find that boys in general are less aware of others needs, not quite as empathetic or as in my son reed's case, close to completely lacking. he still pokes and prods the sleepy nurslings. reed still needs about three hours less sleep than the rest of us. i guess at six i should give up on even mentioning or complaining about it. yesterday as i pulled myself out of bed i did the thing i'm not supposed to do and told myself i need to medicate this child. it's not usually this bad i even almost fell asleep on the bath mat.

as for yelling at him, i spent the first years cultivating that warm fuzzy calm mamma voice that my temper would ruin. i think after i visited taiwan and listened to all the coarse yet real voices i decided i was okay with yelling as long as i yelled things i would say in a normal voice. i have been embracing being real.
as for you fil, you can't change him. and eli is already mostly shaped by you as mamma. it is hard to perceive with a two year old but i assure you, it will not be a big deal. of course then you might end up with what i have, which is my kids knowing that everytime my mom (or dad) opens her mouth they think she is full of it and the boys, when they get offended, start to joke about hitting her with a stick and killing her. at least now its a joke.

rynna, i have been reminding mammas irl lately that they have a baby under one and no matter what else is going on, this in itself is a crazy year for every mamma in the world everytime. it will wash over you and i think you will still be smiling afterwards.

fern amd jaz, i'm glad you had a good outing.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hjohnson*
Jasanna I love the pictures as well! The baby quilts are gorgeous! I am a sucker for a good quilt. I have plans to buy a double wedding ring quilt from the Amish someday but I am going to have to spend a $1,000 to do so.

My MIL was raised Amish, and FIL was raised Mennonite. Mike has three quilts, one from his mom and one from each grandmother. We keep two of them in plastic all the time, because we don't want them to get ruined, but *wow* are they pretty. If we ever buy a house, we'll definately be hanging them up. They're full sized, but really too pretty to sleep under.









Casina-- thank you.









I have a problem with yelling-- I find that when I raise my voice, it escalates my anger. I can't yell, because I get more upset and start to get mean.







I've actually been doing really well with not yelling, but then Mike came home last night and hollered at BeanBean because he couldn't handle both kids long enough for me to go to the bathroom.









This morning, I woke up when BooBah wriggled and pulled on me to force me to roll over. She latched herself on, nursed, and then got up and crawled over me where she played quite happily with an envelope she found on the floor. She was fine as long as she was in physical contact with me at all times. I closed my eyes again, hoping she'd get the hint, but she didn't; she just kept playing until I finally got up with her. I put her in the bouncy chair, gave her some cheerios and did a few morning things, and then I put her in the sling where she fell asleep within moments.







Amazing! She's getting to be such a little person!
















I desperately want to make play dough, but I need to be (temporarily) baby free; that is, I can't do it with BooBah in the sling because my arms aren't long enough. I can barely reach the keyboard, and it's not hot! Plus, if I had to look at the keys to type I wouldn't be able to do it. :LOL

BeanBean is still asleep. He fell asleep while I was at a LLL meeting last night with BooBah. When I got home, he opened his eyes and looked at me and then went back to sleep! I asked him if he needed to go potty and he just hunkered down under the blankets.







I'm pretty sure that he peed for Mike before he (Mike) went to bed, but I'm not positive. I do know that he didn't nurse to sleep, which is *amazing*.


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

jazz - i like your new senior name









Fern, I feel you should absolutely stick with your instincts / decision regarding not vaxing Elwynn. I know it is hard when your family is not supportive, but like you said you are his mama and you alone 1. know what is best for him and 2. have to live with the consequences. kwim??

Our family mostly doesn't mention it anymore (im probably jinxing myself by mentioning that) I am taking a most excellent class on the internet right now - Vaccine Dangers, it is taught by Sheri Nakken. I really can't say enough good things about it, but be foreworned it is A LOT of reading. PM me for the link if you (or anyone) is interested.


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Fern- I wouldn't be too worried about Elwynn contracting a disease from your sister just because she is in nursing school. There are things you can do to prevent exposure, like washing hands religiously, not kissing your sister when she is sick or thinks she is, taking immuno-boosters, etc. You'd be exposed to the same illnesses just by going into the store, or a restaurant, and sitting next to a sick person. Tell her it's your choice and you're willing to take the chance of exposing Elwynn to the natural microorganisms. It's not like you'd hold her responsible if he got sick, right? It's your decision to keep Elwynn unvaxed and it should have nothing to do with whether or not you move in with your sister, IMO. Good luck!

Rynna, I loved the longies. And I think we have the same exact carpet! It's so funny, our wood trim is the same color too.







I know how you are feeling with the two kids and balancing everything out. But in my experience most times there is no balance. Some days Zachary needs more time and some days Julianna is more needy, and the other one kind of understands. I guess since they are used to growing up together they are used to sharing me and they realize that when I'm busy the other one has to wait. Even if that means I have to listen to one scream while they wait. I guess it will just take time for yours to get used to waiting for you. And I went through many times feeling guilty about having Julianna here because Zachary wouldn't have to wait for me if she didn't need me, and he's my baby, and he shouldn't HAVE to share me because he didn't ask me to do foster care. And I also felt guilty for making Julianna wait while I tended to Zachary because she needed a mother since her mother is wacked and it's my job to provide for her... Anyway,







s and I understand...

I am weaning Zachary. I am plain refusing his requests for the boob most times. He is down to once for nap and once for bed, and possibly more if he REALLY needs it. I'm having DH get up with him at night and put him back in his bed, too. I can't take it anymore- I am done. The whole nursing relationship is supposed to be just that- a RELATIONSHIP, and I'm not getting anything out of it anymore but frustration so I am done. When Zachary asks for the bobby I tell him "No, you can't have the bobby right now, you're a big boy, but you can have tickles and kisses!" And then I attack him and make him laugh- trying to keep him happy so he doesn't feel rejected and sad from missing the bobby. It's not easy, but I'm doing it. I'm trying to cuddle with him more, and I offer him milk or Pediasure (he calls in "mote can"). He has been going through the Pediasure like MAD though, since he loves it so much. I don't want to kick a habit by starting another one (especially one that's so EXPENSIVE) but right now I have to get my boobs back. It just has to happen. Last night he woke up at 1am, 4am, 5:30am, and 6:20am. By that time I was wide awake, and I had to get up to get Crystal ready for school, but of course Zach went back to sleep till 8...







I want to be happy to see him in the morning, not angry and frustrated, so I think I'm fixing the situation in the big picture, even if Zachary has a hard time with it. He's strong, so I know he'll be fine and I won't be damaging him by being mean...

Julianna has taken to saying "no" to every single question possible. And this isn't just a regular "no", this is a bratty "no" with major attitude, with perfect inflection and tone. Girls are so different from boys! And it would be one thing if she talked a lot, but she really only uses a few words at all, so it's funny that she picked this one as her favorite! :LOL

Rainy and cloudy here today. I wonder what kind of warm meal I should cook for tonight...







It has been warm and sunny during the day here- just perfect. I love the winters in the southwest.


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## Bethkm (Jun 27, 2003)

Still keeping up mamas, just little time to contribute!

Fern, I can't help but notice your aunt's reaction is like so many I have encountered when it comes to parenting out of the mainstream. I noticed that when she thought you were going to go ahead and vax, she said something like, "so, I'm so glad to hear you are planning to go ahead and vax!" It's like they are so relieved because they thing you've come around to thier way of thinking!

My mom said this to me the other day. "I'm so glad to hear you are planning to wean Tyson!" I had said no such thing and it turns out she got that from a conversation I had with my sister about possibly night weaning before TTC. I set her straight on my plan to CLW, but you see her attitude is such that "whew! Finally, Beth has given in and will do what I thought she should do all along but I didn't have the guts to say it!"

I find that with any part of my life where I function outside of the mainstream it is *OK* for someone in the mainstream to question me/give unsolicited advice but never should I imply that they should consider another way...

Fern, I am a nurse and was once a nursing student...I see no reason why your dc would be at risk by moving in there. Like someone already said, going out in public exposes us to anything there is to be exposed to. Practice good handwashing etc...

We are buried under snow here and are finally getting a break. I'm so ready for warmer weather. Everything takes so much energy in the cold!


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Thanks, Punk!


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

thanks mammas.. for all of your support and insight.. its easy to feel beat down on a subject like vaccination when most of the world is so willing to be led and so easily brainwashed..

elwynn is in a foul mood.. im not sure why.. he just ripped a library book and when i asked him where the other part was he said "eat it" and spat out a little piece of papper.. there aren't many things that really piss me off, but wrecking books sure does..

but on a happier note, my one friend in mission called me this morning and invited us over and to go for a walk. i havnt seen her since before christmas and i was thinking of calling her, except that im always the one to call and i feel weird sometimes.. so it cheered me up. and a weird thing.. she asked me if i vaccinate elwynn and was really happy that i said no.. she said that she was just having a hard time with people about not vacc'ing too.. its strange how the theme of my week has been vaccination.. or better yet..not vaccinating








oh yeah. and yesterday i put on a cartoon for elwynn..it was bear in a blue house or something.. and They were singing about getting vaccinations and how good they were and how if you do it without crying you get candy. i was SO MAD! i turned it off and talked to elwynn about how you cant believe stuff they say on tv.. i think we are going tv free.. it really pisses me off that kids are being targeted with all of this pro vac propaganda.. its like they want kids to go up to momma and say "momma i want a needle so i can have candy too" its sick i say!


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

for some reason that makes me chuckle, julianna saying no in the way you describe. i think "no" actually means, me, i exist, and "mamma" means do something for me.


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

This is crazy. We got almost 3 feet sunday and today we are getting another 9 inches! The snow is pile so high it is up to the level of street signs. There is no where left to put the newly shoveled stuff. We are going stir crazy!

Photos my neighbor took of our front yard and driveway

http://www.ofoto.com/I.jsp?c=oqmk1ov...b&x=0&y=dj6cs7

Amy


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

I love being snowed in







But I guess it's different when you have to take care of kids. When I was a kid, being snowed in meant ...NO SCHOOL!!.. So that made me happy.


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

thats amazing! i love snow.. i wish that it lasted longer around here.

my friend and i visited all day and it was great! now im making supper.

oh i found 25.00$ while walking down the street today! that was luck.. im going to put it towards a pair of soft star boots for elwynn. i was wanting to get him but they seemed kinda expensive, but this was free money, so why not!


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

I have a minute here. I'm drinking some yunnan tea while dh is with ds. Mamafern, when Mukti sees me on the computer he always asks to see pics of Elwynn. Last night while were in bed and we were going over our day, which we do each night, we talked about seeing the pics. I asked him if there was one he liked best and immediately he said 'with momma one'














I thought that was so interesting that he liked the one of you and Elwynn so much because it seems to point to the magnitude of the mother/child relationship, how it's their world right now, and I had a sense of ds being reassured/affirmed in seeing other mommas and babes, a sense of happiness spreading thru his being. I feel this too when we talk about the other mommas and toddlers we know.

So, what books is everyone reading with their little ones?


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

I had written up a nice long post last night, but when I hit submit, I lost it all due to the server problems









Basically, I said: Nice to see you Beth, Casina I totally agree about the no thing and Fern, I hate the way t.v. takes advantage of children too. There, summed it up. Mostly anyway.

Did any of you mamas have very vivid, disturbing dreams while Pregnant? I didn't with Zoom, but I have been during this pregnancy. The last two weeks I don't even feel rested in the morning







The night before last was espesially bad and I spent the morning crying off and on.

Rose, I'm so glad to see you here









Lately we are reading : Welcome with Love (very nice book about a homebirth from a child's p.o.v.) On The Day You Were Born (Beautiful!!) and I Hope You Dance. These are all kind of long for Mariah still so we often don't read the whole book in one setting.

Some of her favorite board books are any with textured pages plus Good Night Moon and the Maisy books by Lucy Cousins.


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

solsticemomma..that is soooo sweet! i hope that elwynn and mukti get to meet each other some day!

ive been buisily getting a package of felt balls ready to send to ohio. my first mail out order.. very exciting.

im going to vancouver tomorow on the train, which elwynn Loves, of course..







im spending the weekend with my sister, so hopefully we will have the chance to sit down and really talk about this vacc. issue and get it cleared up in a positive way.

carrie, i had vivid dreams a lot when i was pregnant with elwynn.. mostly about birthing him.. i think i had a dream about pretty much everyway the birth could have gone.. even one where i ended up having elwynn in a hospital room all alone and when the doc. came in he said "too smalll..gotta put him back" like he was a fish or something.. and one where he was born with black skin! he was the most beautiful chocolate brown baby








i dont remember any being very disturbing, but there probably were some..but im good at blocking stuff like that out. i hope that it getts better. sometimes when i have a spurt of bad dreams before i fall asleep i visualise myself somewhere beautiful and peaceful and i tell myself that ill only dream of lovely things and it really works.. just set your mind in the direction you want it to go.. maybe also letting go ogf any fears and stresses of the day before falling asleep will help too


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **solsticemama**
I had a sense of ds being reassured/affirmed in seeing other mommas and babes, a sense of happiness spreading thru his being. I feel this too when we talk about the other mommas and toddlers we know.

we have a book, can't remember the title, where at the end- second to last page- the mama tucks in the baby, and then the very last page the baby is sleeping in her bed w/ the mama no where to be seen. and dd is always like "mama?" she doesn't understand why teh mama isn't there with her. i tell her that the mama is sleeping too , you just can't see her.
so yeah, for her the mama and the baby also intrinsically go together...


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

punk~ in Ayurveda (are you familiar with it at all?) When you have a bad dream, it means that your doshas are out of wack. Usually means that there is too much fire/pitta in you at that time. I'd suggest cutting down on spicy foods and maybe eating more raw during the day. That's just the way I've learned about it, and it seems to jive with me.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

:LOL boy did i ever have strange dreams! during both pregnancies, they got really nuts. there were some about birth (although i can't say any of them was like the reality) but they were mostly about random stuff.

i had a sex dream while I was pregnant with BeanBean that involved no sex at all... Eminem brought me take out from the Olive Garden and then sat on my bed and folded laundry. You'll have to take my word for it that it was a sex dream; while I was always interested during the day what I really wanted in the evenings was food and for the cleaning to get done. :LOL







:

I also had the "too small, gotta put him back" dream.







While he wasn't "too small" at birth by any means (7 lbs 8 oz, exactly on the 50th) he's a scrawny little thing now! :LOL

But yeah, I had some really creepy and disturbing ones. My sister says you'll always be able to tell if you're having a girl because you'll have "the child molester dream." I had those dreams with BeanBean too, though. I also had several dreams that involved me inflicting harm upon people who'd hurt my babies... seriously detailed ones. After I read Protecting the Gift those dreams went away; it was almost like I needed to come to accept that aspect of motherhood.


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## saritasmile (Sep 5, 2004)

well i had an awesome dream i'd like to share but first i want to tell you guys that tavis just pulled the vcr out of the closet and he just spent the last 10 min. or so getting things (coins, pieces, or whatever) out of the vcr. wonder if it will ever work again? anyway tav is probably annoyed and i'm in here laughing to myself. i can't believe the things razi gets into...

when i was pregnant we didn't know what we were having. one night i dreamed i could see through my big belly and the little baby in there rolled over and i saw a little peenee. i already thought i was having a boy but it was so amazing to see thru myself.

i really miss having a big mama belly. sigh

razi really likes goodnight moon. i mostly like it but in the picture of the illustrater, it looks like he has a cigarette! let me know if i'm wrong!!

mamafern- i got razi the soft star boots at the beginning of the winter and i was rather disappointed. they were warm on the leg and bottom of the foot but the top of the foot had no insulation at all. i ended up sending them back. i just thought i'd tell you cuz it was a bummer.


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Yes, casina, I think it is rather funny when Julianna tells me no. It shows so much of her personality just by saying that one word, and the tone of voice she uses. I definitely think it has more meaning than just "no". She knows she is a person now, an individual, and what she says to us causes a reaction, and she knows she's part of the conversation because she can say something that has such meaning. She's getting so beautiful too, her little black curls and chubby cheeks...









Zachary's favorite book is a book about airplanes. It doesn't really have a story to it, it just describes the airpcraft. Zachary brings it to me and says "wobe it, mama" (read it mama). :LOL We have probably read it a ZILLION times by now, and we all know it by heart. They also really love these two board books we have- they are Teletubbies with doors that open and close, and they fight over them all the time.

I take the kids to the mall sometimes, and they have this little play area with soft toys to climb on and a slide, etc. The kids usually have a blast running around and climbing and screaming. But yesterday it was awful- almost all the kids there were rude and mean. Julianna would be trying to go up the stairs of the slide and kids would push by her, or she'd be at the top of the slide ready to go down and they'd push her out of the way and she'd go down the slide crooked. (She's very skittish about that kind of thing anyway, she's not very confident with her motor skills yet.) A couple kids actually just went up to her and pushed her HARD and the look on her face was just terrible. She had such hurt in her eyes like "Why would you do that to me?!?" I felt so awful, I finally just picked them both up and left. They push each other and hit each other all the time at home, but they just couldn't understand why complete strangers would just come up and push them out of the way and not take turns, etc. They love going there, but I don't think we'll be going back for awhile. It hurt me to see my kids so sad and confused, and I don't want them picking up bad habits of not sharing, not being polite, and not taking turns, YK?

We have two litters of puppies on the way! It has been a breeding frenzy in my backyard lately, to say the least LOL. Come springtime we'll have lots of little puppies around- talk about a stinky corner of the kitchen! We're still planning on TTC after our anniversary... I had been so baby crazed the past few months but now I'm not- it's so weird. I'd almost be content in a way to not have anymore... But I know I will.







My sister is due in June and my cousin is due in August so there are babies everywhere here!

Baby crying', gotta run...


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

yeah, i think im going to pass on the soft star bootss. they look so cute, but ive heard a few bad things now.. i think ill try and make him some with recycled leather and felt on the inside. i can probably make some just as nice or nicer for way less..

today jazz and i went to a coffee shop and some old ladies complained that the kids were being to rowdy. they were running around, but being pretty quiet.. the guy who works there came over nd quietly whispered that he was so sorry and that if it was up to him he wouild let them do whatever they wanted. we were ready to leave anyways, but it was still irritating. the kids were being sweet..they are kids afterall..


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

Thanks for all the advice mamas. I haven't had any birthing dreams yet but have had some baby dreams. In my dreams the baby is always a beautiful boy. I had one where he was very big and another where he was a beautiful coffee with cream







The dreams I am having lately though just aren't nice at all







I think I must have some issues to work through that I am not quite aware of yet.

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Mamajaza**
punk~ in Ayurveda (are you familiar with it at all?) When you have a bad dream, it means that your doshas are out of wack. Usually means that there is too much fire/pitta in you at that time. I'd suggest cutting down on spicy foods and maybe eating more raw during the day. That's just the way I've learned about it, and it seems to jive with me.









I am not familiar with Ayurveda at all -- but i have been eating a lot of spicy foods the last few weeks. It won't hurt to cut back on those and up my raw veggies. What does "raw" include?

Leah, when is your anniv? Is it soon?

SaritaSmile, our Goodnight Moon doesn't have a pic of the illustrator, but does say it is copywrite 194- something or other 42? not sure but i wouldn't be surprised if the guy is holding a ciggerette taking that into account. (yes I am too lazy to get up and go check the date again)

eilionwy, your post makes me feel better. I never had a child molestor dream with Zoom though. I dont remember having these kind of bad dreams with her at all, though I did have great sex ones when pregnant with ehr and this time around too, earlier in this pregnancy I had multiple dreams involving Pacey and Dawson from Dawson's creek







: As corney as those were, I'd love to have those back in place of the ones i've had lately.


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

i need some advice from you momma's

I have a couple of friends that pre-baby I went to disneyworld with every year. one of them is getting married and we have always talked about a bachelorette party there. we would go a thursday to a sunday. i talked about bringing dh and GA and they (friends) think it is a great idea. (one of the women is my sil) but dh doesn't want to go. He thinks ga is too young, would cost to much $$ he supports me going alone that if I want to. I have never been away from ga over night. lately i have been really jealous of friends who have taken nights away from their dc so i think i might be ready. 3 nights seems like a lot though and for a trip to disneyland it seems so fivalous. i really want to go though! in my perfect world they would come. anyway what would you do? and if i decide to go do i need to pump while i am there? ga nurses about 2-4 times per 24 hours these days? Will I even have fun or will i be missing her so much and racked with momma guilt?

thanks

Amy


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

i think the only way i could do a trip like that would be if dh was there with a separate itinerary with the child so i could have access for nights and touch base when i wanted. hard for dh though.

i''m going to be laughing for awhile imagining eminem folding laundry. that's priceless.

it's interesting how the vibe of the conversation turned.....after solsticemama posted. so glad you are still here.


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## saritasmile (Sep 5, 2004)

punkprincess, i really hope my last post didn't seem insensitive to you having bad dreams. i kinda read the posts backwards and got all excited about telling that dream. anyway it's been bothering me all day and i'm sorry!!









abranger, wow, if i decided to do that to razi he would freak out so bad! of course, he is really really attached to mama (dada just won't do most of the time) razi also still nurses a ton. i think i remember that ga goes to daycare so she might be a little more used to spending time away. i don't know how any of this is advise but i can't imagine being able to do anything like that for at least another long time.

speaking of books, tonight we read 'In Gods Name' for bed. when i got the book as a gift i was like "what the ....?" but it is actually a really awesome book and i really like the illustrations too.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

hey there's a kid's book my friend has that i've been meaning to recommend, it's called black is brown is tan. reads like a poem and is very cool.

my partner does most of the reading - it turned out to be a preferred activity for all of them. ruby wants to read.....horse books of course.


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

GA does go to daycare 4 days a week and she is very attached to her dad...he is a teacher so he is home with her all summer. also he does the bedtime routine around here and i just go up to nurse. although from august to dec last year when we didn't have daycare and i worked at night she went to sleep with him everynight without nursing, i really want them to come but id does more than double the price argh!!!! i am so torn she does nurse the second she comes home from daycare before she will consider doing anything else.


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## Sandrine (Apr 14, 2004)

Hi! Everyone, We are still here but everyone is sick. Dh started last wk and then DD1 started last wk too. I started this past monday and now DD2 is sick. She started last night. I can't wait to feel better. I hate being sick. It's dd2 first cold too. She not hungry but very clingy. Dd1 is doing a good job at taking the cold. She fighting hard. We went twice to see a dr for her and each time it's lets see how she does with it. Well, it's not getting better but not getting too worse.

Well, got to take care of dd2, she needs lots of cuddles.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

I think I would con my husband into coming with me. :LOL Actually, it wouldn't be too difficult. He has just as hard a time sleeping without the kids as I do.







I think that despite his hatred of all things Disney, he'd be thrilled to take BeanBean around the park. I'd have to wear BooBah, of course.







Yeah, I think I'd talk Mike into coming with me. Of course, BeanBean has never been in day care and the longest he's been away from either of us was when I was in the hospital with BooBah. He visited us during the day, but Mike spent two nights with me (because I had a c-section, he had to stay for me to keep BooBah in the room). BeanBean was not happy with me then, he kept giving me angry looks. He loved BooBah right from the start, but he didn't see why that meant Mamma and Dadda couldn't stay with him.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *casina*
i''m going to be laughing for awhile imagining eminem folding laundry. that's priceless.

I'm still laughing, and it's been nearly three years. :LOL I think it'll be funny for the rest of my life. :LOL


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## Bethkm (Jun 27, 2003)

I would go on the trip if ds had ever spent the night without me and without nursing (like you said you used to work at night...) It seems like ga would do fine with dh. I've been thinking a lot lately about leaving ds overnight but he still nurses 2-4 times during the night. There is a nice inn about 100 yards from my backdoor and sometimes I dream of going there alone and spending the whole night sleeping!

WE've been reading Happy Birth Day which T loves! It has some great pics of nursing and the whole family snuggling into bed together. It does talk about the doctor catching and cutting the cord but overall is a great read. Tyson thinks about it a lot and has been saying "remember when I was a baby and I was born? Remember you pushed me out?" I've asked him several times what he remembers about being born but so far nothing. Ive heard some nice stories about what toddlers say about there birth.

Hope everyone has a great weekend. We'll be doing the Baby Dance! It's our second cycle of ttc!


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

I decided not to go. It is just too many nights away. Instead I am going to meet a friend who lives in Sweden in NYC for just 2 days. ( I am in Boston so thisis a much shorter trip that FL) I NEED to recharge. I think those 4 months of being without daycare and still trying to work really took it's tole. She still nurses at 4 am and I have been thinking about getting rid of that so now I will make it a point to get rid of it before I go away. Should make the night easier on her and Andrew.

Most of the kids in our playgroup are getting siblings. GA is obsessed with people having babies in their bellies and the babies when they come out. I told her she was in my belly and her eyes got HUGE! ANdrew suggested we show her all of our belly pics which she loved. Then he said we should show her the birth pics. I don't think she really got it. I did ask her to tell me about coming out of my belly but she didn't really understand. I would love to hear what she has to say about it! She generally talks in complete sentences and sometimes paragraphs so when/if she does start talking about it will be a mouthful









ETA:sending conception vibes your way


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

rynna, i was thinking about your eminem "sex" dream all night last night :LOL Olive Garden sounds soooo good to me and someone else folding laundry sounds delicious too :LOL I don't really know Eminems music / anything about him though, so I've been wondering, if I were to have that dream, who would take his place....

anyhow, Sarita, i didn't find your post insensitive at all







I worry about those things too, It's hard to keep up with this thread sometimes, and often I mean to say something to someone but forget. Which reminds me, Amy, I meant to thank you for sharing the pics of ya'll snowed in. It is so hard for me to imagine that kind of weather, so it was nice to see pictures of it. Is it any better for y'all yet?

Beth : some







for you









Brayg, how are you doing these days?

Sandrine, hope you are all feeling better soon.

I saw my midwife today and we talked for almost two hours!! It was so wonderfully comfortable, dh and I and my midwife and a friend of hers (doula) all talking while the kids were running around playing (there were seven kids between all of us) we would all get up and attend to the children as needed and nurse them and it was just so nice. We talked a lot about the birth and I just feel soooo good about this.









Mariah has seen pics of me pregnant with her and of her birth, plus we have been watching videos with her of mamas birthing their babes, but she has yet to say anything about what she remembers of her birth. I would love to hear her point of view when she is ready.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *punkprincessmama*
Mariah has seen pics of me pregnant with her and of her birth, plus we have been watching videos with her of mamas birthing their babes, but she has yet to say anything about what she remembers of her birth. I would love to hear her point of view when she is ready.

I don't think that BeanBean remembers anything now, but when he was tiny he used to have nightmares and wake up screaming, and the only thing we could think was that he remembered the whole horrific ordeal.
















I know I wish I could forget it all. I'm sure Mike does, too.














:


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

i'm so sorry rynna


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Sarita~ I ordered some soft star boots too, and sent them back. The leather was way too thin, IMO. And I don't think they are suited for winter *at all*. They sure look cute, though.

And I wanted to give you a link, punk, about Ayurveda. http://www.bluelotusayurveda.com/doshas.html

I noticed the vibe-change too, Casina. It's strange that we can all feel these things over the net, but I guess it's the next step in "global communitites". I've heard that some day we will not even need computers and all we will need to communicate will be quartz crystals.


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

thanks for the link Jasanna.


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## saritasmile (Sep 5, 2004)

this morning razi decided that his dad was hungry for breakfast, even tho dada was still sleeping. so he proceeded to shove scrambled eggs into tav's mouth! i actually find this hilarious (since it wasn't me) heehee.

razi has all of his molars now. he still drools like crazy. anyone else's dc drool a ton?


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

some kids drool alot, and some just don't at all. i think of it as a relaxed state to honor.
my two r's had the stomach flu yesterday. i had flashbacks of being in taiwan a year ago and how awful and strengthening it was for me. i ended up having a great day even with vomit, and felt honored that i live with the technology of my washer and dryer. there's nothing like the stomach flu to learn to let go of things. i mean there's no way you could make them take medicine nomatter how much you wanted.
i have had to learn to see illness as immune building.


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## saritasmile (Sep 5, 2004)

mamas, my 4 month old niece has just been diagnosed with trisomy 18. they originally thought she had down's but turns out not.







anyway, feeling pretty bummed out today. i'm going to do some online research. so far all i know is that 90% of babies w/ trisomy die w/ in the first year.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saritasmile*
mamas, my 4 month old niece has just been diagnosed with trisomy 18. they originally thought she had down's but turns out not.







anyway, feeling pretty bummed out today. i'm going to do some online research. so far all i know is that 90% of babies w/ trisomy die w/ in the first year.
























I'm so sorry to hear this. I've never heard anything good about trisomy 18.









There are many different "trisomy" syndromes, though. Downs Syndrome is, technically speaking, a trisomy; in fact, I think it may be the most common.

I found a support group online here. I wish your family all the best in dealing with this.


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

i was researchin the MMR vaccine today and found out that the blood disease that i had and almost died from when i was young (ITP) is connected with the MMR vaccine. 2 out of every 3 cases are caused by the vaccine.. so that answers a lot of questions that i have had about me getting sick and also makes me feel very relieved that i havnt vaccinated elwynn, because a reaction in the mother makes it more likely that the child will also have it. scary!

saritasmile: im so sorry about your neice..









my older brother has downs syndrome, but although he was unwell as a baby and had open heart surgery, he is healthy now. i dont know about trisomy 18, but i know that it is hard no matter what you child is sick with. they are lucky to have your love and support. and we are here for you.


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## mum5 (Apr 10, 2004)

Sarita, sorry to hear about your neice.

xxx, Jasmine


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Rynna~ I just looked at your pics. It's good to see a dad babywearing







And looks like you had some snow! that must have been nice.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Mamajaza**
Rynna~ I just looked at your pics. It's good to see a dad babywearing







And looks like you had some snow! that must have been nice.

Thanks! Mike was irritated that I took those pictures because he hadn't shaved and he felt scruffy; i just think they're cute because he's wearing BooBah.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm used to facial hair







www.picturetrail.com/mamajaza


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

So sorry to hear about your niece, Sarita...









Carrie, you asked when my anniversary is- April 22 (Earth Day).









We're kind of waiting to find out if Julianna will be going home or not. If she does we will definitely have another baby. If she stays we might not have any more naturally- we might do foster care or adoption or whatever comes along. Not sure yet, just kind of waiting and hoping... I am feeling like if I wait too much longer I will not want to have another baby of my own, since the kids are getting older and I'm getting more freedom lately!!! And if I can have a foster baby to cuddle and hold and love, and hand it over to Daddy with the bottle so I can leave the house that would be nice! I never had that freedom with Zachary, even though the bonding and feelings of love were *incredible* because he is a piece of me and nursing is so much more intimate (for me) than bottle feeding... I don't know... If I have my own I might have to deal with the preterm labor again and all that crap, and if I get a foster baby I might have to deal with letting it go home, so who knows... There's pors and cons to each side. Whatever will be will be...

Potty training has gone completely out the window around here. Zachary had been using the potty fairly well since he was 8 months old. Before he could communicate I'd just catch him in time and put him on and he'd go, then after he could communicate he'd ask to go to the potty. But now that he's 2 he's Mr. Independent-I-Make-My-Own-Decisions-Man and he has NO interest in using the potty. It seems like he LIKES to poop his pants now, and he hates me to change them. I have to CHASE him down. I know that's not really the case, I know he's just trying to be in control of his own life and all that, but it's just so GROSS. I already have to deal with Julianna not having any interest in the potty- she still has no concept of it- so to have Zachary regress like this and be using his diapers as a toilet when he knows the difference... UGH! But I know all I can do is encourage him to use the potty, and clean up his nasty bottom when he decides not to. I am so frustrated.









I'm going to Reno/Tahoe at the end of February with my parents, and I'll be away from Zachary for two nights. I've never been away from him for even one night, so this is a stretch. Recently I have stayed out all night with my mom at the casino, but we usually make it back by 2 or 3am and DH has done fine, so I think he'll be fine while I'm in Tahoe. At this point I know Zachary CAN go all night without the boob, he just doesn't want to. When he was younger I think he really did need that comfort tool to help him sleep, but now that he can communicate with us DH can just tell him that "Mama's not here right now, so you have to cuddle with Daddy and go to sleep". He's done fine with it so far when I'm gone, so we'll try it for two nights instead of one. It's my first overnight trip away from Zachary, so I am excited! I know I'll miss him, but at least now that he's older I won't feel guilty for leaving him, because I know he and Daddy can handle it.









I looked at Jasanna and Rynna's pictures and they're all very nice!


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## abranger (Dec 15, 2001)

:














:

Happy Birthday Kerc


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## Bethkm (Jun 27, 2003)

Well, Tyson had his first pee in the potty last night and did another one this morning. These were times when I was changing him and he got the idea to go sit on the potty. He's sat on it before but never actually peed. I think he just now has control over the sphincter, you know, making it come out when he wants to... ANyway, I'm excited. I know it will be months until we are pottying full time, but at least he is starting!


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

YAY tyson! its sooo exciting when they learn to do these simple things.. especially for momma because its one less diaper to change and wash.









elwynn's been pooping on the potty since last week without fail. he is treally great about it. last night he needed to poop and we are at my moms, so no little potty ( we got one for him today) but he doesnt like going on the big toilet so i gave him a little bucket and he went in there.. it was funny and cute.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

just saying hey. i was asleep on the couch all day.


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

:














:







: :boy:


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

so rose, i guess you'd be saying you're doing a lot of nursing these days? :LOL

dd must be going through another developmental leap. her sleep schedule is all frilled up. much too busy to settle down to nap for long if at all, and waking a lot at night.
she's into cooking these days- making lots of peas for everyone. and the never ending books and puzzles as usual.'


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

My DD hasn't been having naps for about 3 months. It's good, cause then she will go to sleep earlier and we can have some alone time. Her bedtime is 8:00 now, where it used to be 10:00.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

wow! she doesn't nap and still makes it 'till 8!! my dd didn't nap the other day i had to keep her up 'till 6:30! :LOL

she still naps daily, except for a few quirks here and there. but does go to bed later then before- bw 7:30 and 9, depending on the nap.


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Gosh, no naps...ds still naps for about 2 hrs. each day and I look forward to the time alone.

Ds has begun to use the word "I", for example, I want some eggs, I can do this etc. I find it fascinating because along with the use of this very egocentric pronoun there seems to be a discernable shift in his subtle energy body, like a leap has been made, like another level of incarnating has occurred that is definitively human. It's really very interesting, this self-referencing and somewhat bittersweet. There was a certain clumsy purity in his use of his own name, "eggs for Mukti" that has disappeared with this latest refining. My ears have not quite gotten used to taking shape around the sound of my baby's voice saying "I". The tone has changed too which makes me think the breath-state has changed which indicates further inner and invisible unfoldment. Isn't the human being an amazement?


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

elwynn is a napper too..he will sleep 2 hours most days. i love this few hours to clean up, or cook or just vegg out.

im staying at my moms for a few days.. its nice. she took elwynn this morning and i stayed home, slept in, had a hot tub and went for a walk with her dog willow.. im almost ready for another hot tub..







its luxury....being out in the cold, damp air and in a tub full of hot hot water.. but i shouldn't bragg.. im [email protected]! you should all come on over!

mostly we are just hanging out..elwynn loves being around my foster sisters.. they are older, but they adore him. he is really being great about using the potty.. so far on our whole trip in vancouver he has only used 2 diapers.

rose, elwynn is nursing a lot too right now.. he seems pretty happy otherwise, so im not sure why, maybe it is just another growth spurt ( goddess knows he needs one!)

sarita, any news on your wee niece? how are you doing?









carrie, how are you momma?


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## saritasmile (Sep 5, 2004)

razi has been fighting so hard against any sleep. the other night he nursed for 2 hours before falling asleep. he would not take a nap if it was up to him.

razi has a friend who is one week older than him and he has been completely potty trained w/ no accidents for a month!!! i'm so jealous!!

there is still no word about what problems hailey(my neice) may have. they are still waiting for test results i guess. to make everything worse though, her mother (my brothers girlfriend) got arrested and is in jail. i don't think we will ever know the real reason why this lady keeps getting arrested but it's all kinda crazy. hailey and my brother are coming to visit my dad so i'm going to go visit. i really want to hold her and let her feel how much i love her, yk? i think i'm still a little in shock about it. anyway sorry about the tmi about my fairly messed up family...

i was wondering if anyone knows what happened to my sweet little baby. he's been replaced by some sort of screaming, throwing, spitting, no no noing type of monster. i'm finding a sense of humor is the only thing getting me thru!! well i'm off the torture my child with an aweful horrid diaper...


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## saritasmile (Sep 5, 2004)

razi and i were in the paper today!!


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

What a cute picture!

I've started a new thread for February. It's been February for four whole days! :LOL


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