# My MIL thinks my 6 year old has mental issues



## mommahhh (Oct 17, 2004)

I don't think she does, but she is a handful. I need to figure out how to deal with these issues in a GD way. My child has always been a bit explosive (from day 1 really). She's very strong-willed. We try to be very attached and GD (ex: we still co-sleep). At 6 she has an incredible imagination, is a great artist.....and is quite argumentative with us.

The main issue: a lack of respect (for me). She's sweet and we do have fun. But she OFTEN creates very unpleasant scenarios. Case in point: she and I went to my in-laws for dinner. Everything is going great until it is time to sit for dinner. She decides she doesn't want to eat (even though it is stuff she likes). She is rude ("yucky!") and turns her back. I'm trying to reason with her gently to at least try it (I know she'll like it) and she gets mad, hits me and hides under the table. Um, embarrassing.





















I know from experience that if I haul her out (all 43 lbs of her) she will fight me and make a big spectacle. We've had this experience before in a restaurant and it was very unpleasant. Taking her to the bedroom to cool down doesn't work so well either. She tries to kick me, she cries, and there is no guarantee (unless I was going to sit on her) that she'd stay there. I know they are thinking "WHAT A BRAT" (and honestly, I often think that too







). So my method of operation is to ignore her (and I'm sure everyone thinks I just let her do anything she wants, when in reality I would be up for the battle at home but I'm not wanting to go down that road with an audience).

These behaviors were more easily brushed off at 3. Now at 6 it isn't working so well. To say I'm "afraid" of her is a little bit right. I'm afraid of her embarrassing behavior, and which I seem helpless at controlling. Yes, I could have said "even if you don't eat dinner, you will sit here with us right now or we are leaving". She may have flounced up on the chair, stuck her tongue out at me and rudely ignored everyone else at the table. Uncomfortable. Or I may have had to drag her kicking and screaming to the car (making everyone upset). I don't know what to do half the time.

She also ignores people. All the time. Someone says hi to her (anyone from a relative to a teacher) and she just completely ignores them. There are only a few people in her world who she pays a lot of attention to (ex: certain relatives). The others don't get a smile, a hello...anything. I'm ALWAYS prompting her "did you say hi?". Geez, I shouldn't have to do this at 6!! Right? We talk about manners, and after she ignores someone (yet again) we will talk about it. She either says she did say hi (um, no) or she didn't hear them. I truly am at a loss. MIL says we are going to totally lose control of her in a few years and she's be "such a rebel". Gah!!


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## darien (Nov 15, 2005)

I wish I had advice, but I have some empathy!









My 4 yo ds is a lot like your dd. My MIL _obviously_ prefers our older ds, who is just as "quirky" but in less "offensive" ways.

At the last family gathering, ds4 ate a very small amount of dinner, and started crawling around on the floor, playing. MIL said, in a disgusted tone, "What's _wrong_ with him?"























I said "There's nothing wrong with him; he's a little kid!" MIL dropped it, but I noticed that no one else in the family jumped in to defend ds.


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## mommahhh (Oct 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *darien* 
MIL said, in a disgusted tone, "What's _wrong_ with him?"
























Yikes, that hurts, doesn't it?? I hate feeling like I always have to defend my little girl (yeah, I know she's kinda nutty sometimes, but I love her anyway). I just want everyone to shut up....it gets to the point where I don't want to take her anywhere.


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

Are you sure she doesn't have sensory issues? Or maybe even on the spectrum?

If it happens more out of the house I would think maybe it is just to much!


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## SugarAndSun (Feb 6, 2005)

DS can be a handful too. He isn't really disrespectful as much as he just runs around nutty if anyone starts joking with him. I find that it really helps to discuss with him, many times, before we go anywhere what is expected of him. This may work for the saying hello thing too. That way you don't need to correct her in front of people, you just need to remind her quietly in her ear what you talked about before going. This works especially well if she likes going to the place...


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## Mary-Beth (Nov 20, 2001)

My 6yo ignores people too...I can relate to that one. Someone will say hello to her or give her a compliment in the store and she'll turn around or look down or just flat out ignore them. We're working on that...I'm coaching her to say hello or smile and say thanks.

I would plan out your response when she acts up and stick to it wherever you go and no matter who is looking...
If she wasn't interested in eating perhaps she could have had the option of not joining the table at all. In our house I wouldn't mind that. I would mind her being rude and the hitting and physical stuff. We have a clear rule about gentle hands that everyone must follow (parents/adults included)

My dd1 used to have huge emotional outbursts (and other symptoms)
and we realized she was reacting to gluten and dairy and she was having sugar metabolism issues...once we cleaned up her diet it all got so much better...so much better. I realize the issues and causes aren't the same for everyone but I thought you might want to at least consider this from another angle as well.

I hope you guys can get to the bottom of this soon!


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## Lisa85 (May 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommahhh* 
I don't think she does, but she is a handful. I need to figure out how to deal with these issues in a GD way. My child has always been a bit explosive (from day 1 really). She's very strong-willed. We try to be very attached and GD (ex: we still co-sleep). At 6 she has an incredible imagination, is a great artist.....and is quite argumentative with us.

The main issue: a lack of respect (for me). She's sweet and we do have fun. But she OFTEN creates very unpleasant scenarios. Case in point: she and I went to my in-laws for dinner. Everything is going great until it is time to sit for dinner. She decides she doesn't want to eat (even though it is stuff she likes). She is rude ("yucky!") and turns her back. I'm trying to reason with her gently to at least try it (I know she'll like it) and she gets mad, hits me and hides under the table. Um, embarrassing.





















I know from experience that if I haul her out (all 43 lbs of her) she will fight me and make a big spectacle. We've had this experience before in a restaurant and it was very unpleasant. Taking her to the bedroom to cool down doesn't work so well either. She tries to kick me, she cries, and there is no guarantee (unless I was going to sit on her) that she'd stay there. I know they are thinking "WHAT A BRAT" (and honestly, I often think that too







). *So my method of operation is to ignore her (and I'm sure everyone thinks I just let her do anything she wants, when in reality I would be up for the battle at home but I'm not wanting to go down that road with an audience).*

These behaviors were more easily brushed off at 3. Now at 6 it isn't working so well. To say I'm "afraid" of her is a little bit right. I'm afraid of her embarrassing behavior, and which I seem helpless at controlling. Yes, I could have said "even if you don't eat dinner, you will sit here with us right now or we are leaving". She may have flounced up on the chair, stuck her tongue out at me and rudely ignored everyone else at the table. Uncomfortable. Or I may have had to drag her kicking and screaming to the car (making everyone upset). I don't know what to do half the time.

She also ignores people. All the time. Someone says hi to her (anyone from a relative to a teacher) and she just completely ignores them. There are only a few people in her world who she pays a lot of attention to (ex: certain relatives). The others don't get a smile, a hello...anything. I'm ALWAYS prompting her "did you say hi?". Geez, I shouldn't have to do this at 6!! Right? We talk about manners, and after she ignores someone (yet again) we will talk about it. She either says she did say hi (um, no) or she didn't hear them. I truly am at a loss. MIL says we are going to totally lose control of her in a few years and she's be "such a rebel". Gah!!


Bolding mine. In this situation you _are_ letting her do whatever she likes. I'm not saying you let her do whatever she likes all the time, whenever she wants - I'm sure that's not true at all. But when an audience is around, she has figured out that you aren't going to do anything. Ignoring the behavior isn't do anything.

My oldest is 3.25 and this behavior would be unacceptable. She sounds like a brilliant little girl and knows how to work situations to her advantage. If it were me, I'd be hauling all 43lbs of her kicking and screaming into another room so that others could finish their meal. Have dh do it if it's too much for you to handle physically. I wouldn't talk much - your actions speak louder than words anyways. Take her to another room and tell her she may not come back to the table until her manners come with her. She doesn't need to eat anything, but she shouldn't make others feel bad about their food either. Tell her next time she doesn't want to sit at the table, that's fine, she just needs to ask politely to go to another room and not to disturb others who are trying to eat.

I personally think 6 is a little young to be expected to sit at a table, especially if there aren't many kids and the conversation is adult oriented.

I really have no idea what to do about the ignoring. I'd like to say it wouldn't be tolerated in my house, but on the flip side if they refuse, it's not like you can *make* them talk. I'm no expert but it sounds like to me she's got some pent up frustration about something and this is how she's relieving it. I don't think it'd hurt to take her to a play therapist, somebody to talk to about how she feels, etc and hopefully get to the bottom of the behavior. You might also want to check out a behavior therapist. Ignore the stigma behind it - there's nothing wrong with asking for professional help on her behavior. Let's face it, some kids are easier to raise in this respect than others.

As far as your MIL's comments, that's completely uncalled for if there were other people there - SILs, cousins, BIL's, aunts, uncles, etc. It's nobody's business and she doesn't need to embarrass you any further. If it were a one time thing I'd let it slide, and chalk it up to her being frustrated. But if it's a continual thing done in front of other people, I'd say something. Tell her that if she has a valid concern for dd, then she needs to come to you or dh to express those when dd is not around instead of publicly calling you out.


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## musikat (Oct 30, 2002)

Funny you should post this today because I was considering a similar post myself. DP and I just had a discussion about our eldest son, 7. Not exactly the same issues as your daughter, but he doesn't listen well at all (apparently his current teacher does pretty well with him, though) and he's really unaware of his impact on other people (physical and emotional). And he never, ever sits to eat. He will stand at the chair with one knee on his chair. To make any impression on him you practically have to hit him over the head (not literally). The other day he got mad at his younger brother and pushed him down, causing him to have to get stitches. His reaction? "At least I'm not the one who had to get stiches."







:

I don't think he's "on the spectrum" at all, though I have occasionally wondered about ADHD. DP things he might have the beginning stages of a personality disorder (NPD -- narcissistic personality) which really hurts to hear. Others have been "negative" about him, too, from the time he was 3.

It's hard. And I have no solutions, either. I just keep trying with him and hoping he will "grow out of it." I totally relate to your situation.


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## DariusMom (May 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mary-Beth* 
My 6yo ignores people too...I can relate to that one. Someone will say hello to her or give her a compliment in the store and she'll turn around or look down or just flat out ignore them. We're working on that...I'm coaching her to say hello or smile and say thanks.

I would plan out your response when she acts up and stick to it wherever you go and no matter who is looking...
If she wasn't interested in eating perhaps she could have had the option of not joining the table at all. In our house I wouldn't mind that. I would mind her being rude and the hitting and physical stuff. We have a clear rule about gentle hands that everyone must follow (parents/adults included)

My dd1 used to have huge emotional outbursts (and other symptoms)
and we realized she was reacting to gluten and dairy and she was having sugar metabolism issues...once we cleaned up her diet it all got so much better...so much better. I realize the issues and causes aren't the same for everyone but I thought you might want to at least consider this from another angle as well.

I hope you guys can get to the bottom of this soon!

Great advice and perspective.

Just to add to what MaryBeth and other PPs have said, my DS, 6, also ignores people. We're really working on it, but he can get shy, distracted, and just isn't quite "there" in terms of these kinds of casual social interactions. It's kind of hit and miss, really. i wouldn't worry about the ignoring part of your DD's behavior so much, OP. it seems to be pretty age appropriate, and you can just keep practicing, modeling, and generally working on it.

I agree with the post above about deciding on a response, letting your DD know what the response will be and what your expectations are clearly, giving one warning, wherever you are, and then carrying through ... if that means taking her home from a family dinner or from a restaurant, so be it.

The hitting shouldn't be tolerated. I know ... easier said than done. Talk with your DP and figure out how you want to respond, explain it to your DD, and then follow through. She does have you cornered and intimidated and you need to reassert your authority lovingly and kindly but firmly. I don't know your own personal GD philosophy and there's a huge spectrum on this forum, but hitting isn't ok. If she were two, I think you could explain it's wrong and distract. Now that's she's six, you have to be more proactive.

I don't know anything about food intolerance, but it sounds like it might be an avenue of investigation.


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## Roar (May 30, 2006)

Well, this may be dangerous but here goes... While I don't agree with the way your MIL put it, I would not dismiss the concern that something in this situation is not right. When I read your post, I can say if I was a family member observing this process with a six year old I would also be concerned because to me this behavior reflects that your daughter has to be feeling pretty lousy in these situations and because I can tell you are walking around on eggshells and that's a lousy feeling. I am wondering if you've ever considered getting some outside help to see if she has some kind of special needs that should be treated and to get some advice on what kinds of discipline may work better with her. There are lots of possible explanations for her behavior such as sensory dysfunction, anxiety, etc. I think it is worth exploring further - again not because "what will the relatives think" but because it feels really lousy to be the kid who is behaving like that. The behavior is a clue she needs help.


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## mommahhh (Oct 17, 2004)

Thanks for your replies, everyone.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mary-Beth* 
My dd1 used to have huge emotional outbursts (and other symptoms)
and we realized she was reacting to gluten and dairy and she was having sugar metabolism issues...once we cleaned up her diet it all got so much better...so much better. I realize the issues and causes aren't the same for everyone but I thought you might want to at least consider this from another angle as well.


how would I figure this out? She eats pretty good (I try really hard to stay on top of her diet, but she's become incredibly picky lately), but if she had her way it would be non-stop grilled cheese on white bread, Honey Nut Cheerios, white toast w/butter, cinnamon bagels and various sugary confections.


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## jillmamma (Apr 11, 2005)

First, I hope MIL did not say any of this stuff in front of your DD. I would definitely address that with her if she did, as 6 year olds are very aware of what is being said around them.

I think at 6, acting like that would result in a removal of privileges. If you are not old enough to act nice, you are not old enough for [staying up later, watching a movie, playing games on computer, etc.] privilege. DS will try to pull that "this is yucky" stuff on me sometimes, and I tell him that he is being rude and it hurts my feelings that I made a nice dinner and he can't really know if he likes it if he won't even take a bite first. I also have the rule that if you try it and really don't like it, we can do something else, but if you won't try it, sorry no alternate meal for dinner, and you might be hungry later if you don't eat. As far as the hitting, etc. she would have to leave the table and come back later when she can calm down. If she won't stay, I would do a "time in", holding the 43 lb kid on my lap till she calmed down (holding down arms if she still hits). I have done this with my 46 lb 6 year old, so I know it is NOT easy.

One other thing I would definitely make sure of is that she has enough sleep. If DS or DD is low on sleep, their behavior is most definitely worse than if they have had a good night's rest. Also, getting plenty of fun one on one time helps. I find DS to be WAY more cooperative about doing things if we can sneak in a few games of Sorry! (his favorite game) every so often. I hope things get better soon.


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## mama_mojo (Jun 5, 2005)

Is she (or was she) underslept?


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## mommahhh (Oct 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama_mojo* 
Is she (or was she) underslept?

No, I am very careful with her bedtimes (she turns into a monster without enough sleep!). She often tends to act like this when there are other people around. I can't imagine that she's over stimulated? For example, it was just at her grandparent's (she's there nearly every week) and there wasn't a lot going on (but she does love going there).


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## Cheshire (Dec 14, 2004)

I, too, would investigate food allergies/intolerances. Especially if she is craving a lot of white bread and sugars.

From your post, I'm leaning towards it may just be that she is needing more boundaries. She senses your fear and when you ignore her behavior I think it sends the wrong message.

This is going to take time and patience to correct but if you are consistent you should see some results fairly quickly.

I agree that you should try and discuss what the plans are before going out. "We're going to eat at grandma's house. If you get scared or uncomfortable sitting at the table just grab my hand and give it a squeeze to let me know. If you feel yourself getting scared, afraid or overwhelmed don't lose control first, get my attention and we'll go to another room and sit for a while. If you are not able to control yourself and don't respond respectfully to my suggestion that we go to another room your father or I will help you to the other room where you can relax. Do you have any suggestions on what might help?" She's six, she will understand it and you might be surprised at what she comes up with.

Do not be afraid of her behavior - I totally get your fear, I hate it when my son loses control, but I have to be there for him and put my own fears, anxiety and embarrassment aside. You can do this and the more you help her through these outbursts the more she'll learn to control them herself. She needs guidance on what is acceptable behavior. Physically removing her to another room is okay. I would not hold her down or restrain her. She may try and leave the room a few times but once she learns that you will bring her back to the room and be there with her until she calms down she'll stop trying to get away.

Also, as uncomfortable as it can be having to physically remove her from under the table, trying to talk and reason with her in front of everyone else is very embarrassing for her. She is all of a sudden on the spot and everyone is watching to see how she will react. When my DS acts up at his grandparents house (or anywhere else in public) we find a quiet spot to visit and talk it through. He loves his grandparents dearly and he spends a great deal of time at their house, they are very close, but he does not handle it well if he does something (throwing a toy, etc.) and we have to talk about it in front of everyone else. He didn't like it at first when I would take him to another room to calm down but after a few times he gets it now and responds well when I tell him we need to go and talk.

As you know, the hitting is unacceptable. Once she has calmed down talk it through with her. Find out what she is feeling when she hits. Ask her what she can do to help herself not hit. And, talk about natural consequences to her hitting if she can't control herself.

As far as her not responding to people - I wouldn't make her talk to anyone. Just simply explain to her that her behavior may seem rude to others and not to be surprised when those folks stop acknowledging her. That's a natural consequence to her behavior. You are not responsible for her responding. If you feel like you have to say something you can just look at the person, shrug your shoulders and start a conversation with them yourself. My son sometimes doesn't want to talk to others. I do not label him as "oh, he's just shy" or tired or whatever. I don't have to make excuses for him - he is responsible for his behavior. The shrug, smile and change of topic in the conversation works pretty well. When you are consistent with this and she learns that you will not get into a battle of wills/control over her responding to people she will learn that it is her sole responsibility. When she figures out that this isn't something you are going to "talk" to her about or try and make her talk to others she'll figure out on her own how she wants to respond. This is the behavior I would ignore. I would talk to her about it once - that it hurt grandma's feelings (or whatever it was) that she didn't respond, what the natural consequences of her ignoring others will bring and then leave it at that. As you said, she is intelligent and she'll understand it. I'd visit with her about it once, not in the heat of the moment but later when she is calm, and then I'd ignore the behavior and give her space to find her own way on this one.

I'm sorry you guys are struggling through this. Part of helping her through it will mean changing the way you respond to her. You'll have to make some major adjustments yourself so that she can find her way to more acceptable behavior. Regaining your authority (not punishing authority, but the good kind that a child knows is there to support and provide structure and loving guidance) will take time but it will be well worth it.

Best wishes!


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## ButtersChloe (Feb 26, 2009)

Looks like this outburst may have been more about grandma than disrespect for you. Did something do down between them before dinner? Even if it was very subtle this may be her way to "speak out" against something she could not verbalize. Grandma made the dinner, right? She knew that she was disrespecting grandma by not eating it. Her behavior toward you may have just been collateral damage from her feelings about grandma. I know the behavior is what has to be dealt with immediately but if there was some root trigger of the outburst before it happened it may be worth examining.


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

I would refuse to take her out in public unless she decided to act her age. 6 is too old to be pulling the stunts that your daughter is pulling. Personally, if she didn't stop and taking away privileges didn't help her, I would have her evaluated.

I would have made a spectacle and hauled all 43 lbs of her out the door. I have done it with my 4 yr old.

Even my middle son. age 10, who has Autism, we would not tolerate such behavior from. When we go to a restaurant, and IF he acts up, one of us takes him to the car. We go home. He doesn't like it and usually shapes up and remembers his manners.

I am not fussing at you. Believe me, I know how embarrassing it is when your child acts out in public.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

My dh still slips away to other rooms when we go to dinner with his family. And our 3 yo niece often goes with him, to, in her words "I want to be alone for awhile". Dh thinks that if he'd had that as a child he wouldn't need to hide from so much of family gatherings now.

Anyway, point is, even if it's familiar, it isn't necessarily comfortable, and she could still be overwhelmed. And she's not necessarily going to be able to recognize that or verbalize it.

I'd try seeing if taking her out, all the way outside in warm weather, for a few minutes when she first starts those behaviors helps.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

My daughter can be like this if she doesn't have enough protein. All grains and no protein to balance it makes her moods just go off. Especially breakfast - we ALWAYS have a protein-based breakfast here.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

My almost 6(July) year old daughter gets very nervous/stressed in social situations particularly if there is a crowd of adults involved. She has not learned how to deal with her feelings in this type of situation and likely, if there is to be an explosion/meltdown it will be during this type of thing.

I could imagine my daughter walking into a dining room, seeing all the people and her anxiety level rising. She would get nervous and react to the situation in an inappropriate way(refusing to eat for example) and then a negative comment, a put-down no matter how mild would increase the anxiety level and thus increase and exascerbate the behaviour. Of course meal times are the worse because to top it off she's likely physically hungry.

I try to work out the emotions ahead of time. And talk about the behaviour after the fact.

A nice cuddle in bed, a non-blaming and understanding conversation with a lot of listening on your behalf and a lot of suggestions on what to do another time. This conversation and conversations of this type should be an ongoing thing.

Some validation is good too. I tell my daughter that I get overwhelmed walking into a room of people to eat and that I used to get really nervous as a kid eating with a lot of adults, even those I knew well..the expectation of kids behaviour is higher than that of children at the dinner table and is often rife with corrections and suggestions..NOT a pleasant experience. I've had to tell my mother in law to stop nagging the kids during mealtimes about their elbows and table manners and other naggity things she does to "help them learn their manners". (My dh told her nagging at the table is bad manners and that helped too)

I think she's reacting to a situation she doesn't feel right in. Think about the situations where she behaving this way? How can you make them more comfortable for her? Is some of it that she is stressed about the expectations placed on her to "behave" and is misbehaving out of a combination of stress/anxiety and fulfilling the expectation that she will "misbehave"?


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## crazy_canuk (Jun 28, 2007)

Your post struck a chord with me and I feel compelled to reply. I don't have any answers for you but I certainly can commiserate. My ds, who is almost 7, is very much as you describe. We went through a real rough patch with him from 3.5-4.5 years old where he was being very disruptive, controlling and downright disrespectful. It took a long time (a year or more but it's an ongoing process) for us to regain control again and he has been rather pleasant, for the most part, for the past 2.5 years. The book that helped us the most was 'Setting Limits with your Strong-Willed Child' by Robert J. MacKenzie. Setting and enforcing boundaries was the key for us.

'The Explosive Child' by Ross W. Greene is another book that comes to mind. I have read it and while it applied to ds somewhat, I found the other book more useful to me.

I am also struggling with the ignoring. I have classified my ds as an 'anti-people pleaser', as opposed to 'anti-social', as he is either not aware of, or doesn't acknowledge, other people and their feelings. He can be very engaging when he wants to be and he has many friends but he is not motivated by their feelings to change his behavior. Does that make sense? There has to be something in it for him, doing it to please me, or anyone else, isn't motivation enough to do something. Eating with a fork is an inconvenience for him but would be pleasing to me, so he continues to eat with his hands. Taking the plate of food away from him until he will eat with a fork, directly affects him, and he's more inclined to comply. Saying hello to someone, or acknowledging another person by waving or smiling, is an embarassment to him but would be pleasing to someone else, hence he ignores them. He's going to find himself alone in the future if he cannot treat other people nicely. These are just a couple of examples.

It's an ongoing process and we have made progress over the years, he just has farther to go than most other people. Everyone is somewhere on the 'people pleasing' spectrum and my ds is on the far left. Is there something wrong with him? I don't think so, he is just an extreme personality and it's a challenge to work with that kind of person.

I'm interested to hear what other people have to say.


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## HomeBirthMommy (Mar 15, 2003)

It is SO hard. My dd is 9 and does the same thing, except she mostly just does it at home. She's an angel when we're out. She has been in therapy since October and we're really not seeing any real improvement.

My other two children respond appropriately (for the most part) to our parenting and boundaries, but this child for whatever reason can't think situations through to "get" the consequences. Even when it is a calmly enforced natural consequence, she goes off the deep end. If she chooses not to do her homework, she then throws a tantrum and blames the rest of the family for her homework not being done. It's very sad and frustrating.









If wish I had some answers for you, but you do have my most sincere emphathy.


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## ericswifey27 (Feb 12, 2005)

A lot of these comments remind me of my oldest son, and of me. There are allergies and food intolerances involved with my son, and probably me as well, although I haven't been tested.


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## Surfacing (Jul 19, 2005)

When I read your post I thought of my dd1.

There is a book called The Explosive Child. It's for kids who are on the more extreme end of the spectrum, but I found some very useful tips in there for dealing with my dd1 who gets stuck in frustration and acts out. It might be useful to you.









ETA - I posted first and then read the responses. HomeBirthMommy you might consider checking out that book too. It suggests that some children have cognitive difficulties with thinking once frustrated or remembering consequences and offers techniques for working with the child.


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## Ellien C (Aug 19, 2004)

I just wanted to offer some empathy. I could see my 6 yo doing something very similar. It's been a lot better for us in the last year than 3.5-5, but we have our moments just like that.


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## karika (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cheshire* 
I, too, would investigate food allergies/intolerances. Especially if she is craving a lot of white bread and sugars.

From your post, I'm leaning towards it may just be that she is needing more boundaries. She senses your fear and when you ignore her behavior I think it sends the wrong message.

This is going to take time and patience to correct but if you are consistent you should see some results fairly quickly.

I agree that you should try and discuss what the plans are before going out. "We're going to eat at grandma's house. If you get scared or uncomfortable sitting at the table just grab my hand and give it a squeeze to let me know. If you feel yourself getting scared, afraid or overwhelmed don't lose control first, get my attention and we'll go to another room and sit for a while. If you are not able to control yourself and don't respond respectfully to my suggestion that we go to another room your father or I will help you to the other room where you can relax. Do you have any suggestions on what might help?" She's six, she will understand it and you might be surprised at what she comes up with.

Do not be afraid of her behavior - I totally get your fear, I hate it when my son loses control, but I have to be there for him and put my own fears, anxiety and embarrassment aside. You can do this and the more you help her through these outbursts the more she'll learn to control them herself. She needs guidance on what is acceptable behavior. Physically removing her to another room is okay. I would not hold her down or restrain her. She may try and leave the room a few times but once she learns that you will bring her back to the room and be there with her until she calms down she'll stop trying to get away.

Also, as uncomfortable as it can be having to physically remove her from under the table, trying to talk and reason with her in front of everyone else is very embarrassing for her. She is all of a sudden on the spot and everyone is watching to see how she will react. When my DS acts up at his grandparents house (or anywhere else in public) we find a quiet spot to visit and talk it through. He loves his grandparents dearly and he spends a great deal of time at their house, they are very close, but he does not handle it well if he does something (throwing a toy, etc.) and we have to talk about it in front of everyone else. He didn't like it at first when I would take him to another room to calm down but after a few times he gets it now and responds well when I tell him we need to go and talk.

As you know, the hitting is unacceptable. Once she has calmed down talk it through with her. Find out what she is feeling when she hits. Ask her what she can do to help herself not hit. And, talk about natural consequences to her hitting if she can't control herself.

As far as her not responding to people - I wouldn't make her talk to anyone. Just simply explain to her that her behavior may seem rude to others and not to be surprised when those folks stop acknowledging her. That's a natural consequence to her behavior. You are not responsible for her responding. If you feel like you have to say something you can just look at the person, shrug your shoulders and start a conversation with them yourself. My son sometimes doesn't want to talk to others. I do not label him as "oh, he's just shy" or tired or whatever. I don't have to make excuses for him - he is responsible for his behavior. The shrug, smile and change of topic in the conversation works pretty well. When you are consistent with this and she learns that you will not get into a battle of wills/control over her responding to people she will learn that it is her sole responsibility. When she figures out that this isn't something you are going to "talk" to her about or try and make her talk to others she'll figure out on her own how she wants to respond. This is the behavior I would ignore. I would talk to her about it once - that it hurt grandma's feelings (or whatever it was) that she didn't respond, what the natural consequences of her ignoring others will bring and then leave it at that. As you said, she is intelligent and she'll understand it. I'd visit with her about it once, not in the heat of the moment but later when she is calm, and then I'd ignore the behavior and give her space to find her own way on this one.

I'm sorry you guys are struggling through this. Part of helping her through it will mean changing the way you respond to her. You'll have to make some major adjustments yourself so that she can find her way to more acceptable behavior. Regaining your authority (not punishing authority, but the good kind that a child knows is there to support and provide structure and loving guidance) will take time but it will be well worth it.

Best wishes!

I really like this post and it gives me a new approach to my child. There have been a few similar posts lately, and every one is the experience we are having with our 5.7 yo. I have nearly started a thread myself as well, written back to the other ones, but this answer is a key for me. thank you for posting. I agree about allowing the child to decide whether or not s/he wants to speak to anyone, it is their life and choices. I do however, hold my daughter in my arms when she is having a flailing type fit. She hasn't had one in a while come to think of it, so in this case, she did grow out of that anyway. Now it is more of challenge of wills it seems. I too believe it is food related. But we are currently staying at her father's home, and he doesn't believe in many of the things I do anymore since we got divorced. Plus, I eat stuff like candy, so I feel too hypocritical. So I try to explain it logically, that she is having a reaction to a food she ate, and she needs to figure out how she is going to deal with that since she likes cookies/cake/poptarts/hard candy....she isn;t old enough to understand yet, but she is more reasonable now than at 4 yo, maybe becasue i say it so much, but like i said, her father doesn't believe me that millk is bad for her, and to eat healthy with no HFCS, or organic is more expensive than exdh is willing to spend, and i have no income... but that is another thread. Again, thank you pp.


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## Savoury (Oct 20, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crazy_canuk* 
Your post struck a chord with me and I feel compelled to reply. I don't have any answers for you but I certainly can commiserate. My ds, who is almost 7, is very much as you describe. We went through a real rough patch with him from 3.5-4.5 years old where he was being very disruptive, controlling and downright disrespectful. It took a long time (a year or more but it's an ongoing process) for us to regain control again and he has been rather pleasant, for the most part, for the past 2.5 years. The book that helped us the most was 'Setting Limits with your Strong-Willed Child' by Robert J. MacKenzie. Setting and enforcing boundaries was the key for us.

'The Explosive Child' by Ross W. Greene is another book that comes to mind. I have read it and while it applied to ds somewhat, I found the other book more useful to me.

I am also struggling with the ignoring. I have classified my ds as an 'anti-people pleaser', as opposed to 'anti-social', as he is either not aware of, or doesn't acknowledge, other people and their feelings. He can be very engaging when he wants to be and he has many friends but he is not motivated by their feelings to change his behavior. Does that make sense? There has to be something in it for him, doing it to please me, or anyone else, isn't motivation enough to do something. Eating with a fork is an inconvenience for him but would be pleasing to me, so he continues to eat with his hands. Taking the plate of food away from him until he will eat with a fork, directly affects him, and he's more inclined to comply. Saying hello to someone, or acknowledging another person by waving or smiling, is an embarassment to him but would be pleasing to someone else, hence he ignores them. He's going to find himself alone in the future if he cannot treat other people nicely. These are just a couple of examples.

It's an ongoing process and we have made progress over the years, he just has farther to go than most other people. Everyone is somewhere on the 'people pleasing' spectrum and my ds is on the far left. Is there something wrong with him? I don't think so, he is just an extreme personality and it's a challenge to work with that kind of person.

I'm interested to hear what other people have to say.










This is my 7.5 year old to a T.


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## Monkeypants (Apr 30, 2004)

I just finished reading "Raising a Sensory Smart Child" as well as "The Out if Sync Child" because my DD has some sensory issues and both these books really call attention to the fact that sensory issues often underlie many negative behaviors. It's worth checking these books out in order to fully understand what may be going on with your child. Many of my DD's explosive, impulsive and rude behaviors are a result of her not feeling organized. She needs a lot of heavy input, but your DD I'm sure has her own set of sensory needs. Even the ignoring of people could be sensory-related. Anyway I just wanted to put this out there, in case it helps.
Peace,


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## PikkuMyy (Mar 26, 2004)

I think that "allgirls"'s post is right on.

I'm a special education teacher and I don't see any flags that your daughter is on the spectrum.

It does seem like she's very aware of the effect she has on you.


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## Happiestever (May 13, 2007)

UGH. MIL'S! Mine yelled at me that my son was delayed and was going to have special needs because of my parenting (although said in french so used different words). Sometimes I wish phones and planes didn't exist.

I was raised with family who clearly stated their expecations. And this is how I deal with others as well. Adults and children alike. I know taking a kicking and screaming child is no fun and embarassing but you have to set limits. I know the stares can be the worst, but having a child rule your life is no way to live.


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## *Erin* (Mar 18, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommahhh* 
Thanks for your replies, everyone.

how would I figure this out? She eats pretty good (I try really hard to stay on top of her diet, but she's become incredibly picky lately), but if she had her way it would be non-stop grilled cheese on white bread, Honey Nut Cheerios, white toast w/butter, cinnamon bagels and various sugary confections.

omg that is a recipe for meltdown. not judging, not at all. i have a very fiery 6 yr old dd too, and she would be a MONSTER if she she ate those things. i don't know alot of particulars on food sensitivities, but i do see a MARKED difference in my dd's behavior if she eats lots of protein-rich foods and fresh foods (happy, energenic, even tempered) vs. carbs and processed things (wild). she eats alot of something high carb or sugary (like honey nut cheerios) and she is a wild child within a half hour. she literally can't sit still! we went thru a very picky phase 6 months ago-i kept healthy, easy to get for herself stuff in the fridge for snacks, and fixed simple and healthy meals until she got past it. i didnt make a big deal over it, and she's great now, even ate all her whole-wheat breadcrumb battered tilapia, strawberries, broccoli and cheese, and walnuts last night! and asked for seconds!

the food thing is a biggie.

i can empathize with the embarressment you are feeling when she doesnt behave nicely. been there. it hurts. your MIL sounds so mean spirited. i hate when people can't see past a child's behaviors and love them anyway. please don't let this woman, or anyone else, make you feel ashamed.

your dd does need some guidence and some support from you. she is just a little kid. ignoring her isnt really addressing what she is doing that you want her to stop doing. she is still learning the rules of social behavior. she needs you to help her learn.

i would think this is NOT fun for her, either. i bet she feels SO embarrassed herself. especially when she is being fussed at in front of everyone. she is too big for that. take her aside and speak to her alone. that right there will make a difference. and apologize for putting her on the spot and making her feel embarressed. (been there, worked miracles) then address the negative behaviors.

have you tried talking to her before dinner about what you expect? i would, and i would tell her if she doesnt follow the rules, i will be expecting her to leave the table. and i would follow thru.

i would haul her out kicking and screaming from under the table, but i would be very calm, firm, and loving about it. dont' be angry with her, not openly. do not let her get your goose. be. calm. after i got her to the car, or her room or something, i would tell her why she can't behave that way and how i expect her to behave, and let her know just how much you adore you and appreciate her company at the table (as does everyone else).

i do not think there is anything about your dd that would make me think she has a mental problem. i think she is 6, having growing pains, and stuck in a negative behavior rut. she's gonna be ok. 6 is such a spunky, fiesty, headstrong age. so challenging.


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## *Erin* (Mar 18, 2002)

reading the thread and i must say

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cheshire* 
I, too, would investigate food allergies/intolerances. Especially if she is craving a lot of white bread and sugars.

From your post, I'm leaning towards it may just be that she is needing more boundaries. She senses your fear and when you ignore her behavior I think it sends the wrong message.

This is going to take time and patience to correct but if you are consistent you should see some results fairly quickly.

I agree that you should try and discuss what the plans are before going out. "We're going to eat at grandma's house. If you get scared or uncomfortable sitting at the table just grab my hand and give it a squeeze to let me know. If you feel yourself getting scared, afraid or overwhelmed don't lose control first, get my attention and we'll go to another room and sit for a while. If you are not able to control yourself and don't respond respectfully to my suggestion that we go to another room your father or I will help you to the other room where you can relax. Do you have any suggestions on what might help?" She's six, she will understand it and you might be surprised at what she comes up with.

Do not be afraid of her behavior - I totally get your fear, I hate it when my son loses control, but I have to be there for him and put my own fears, anxiety and embarrassment aside. You can do this and the more you help her through these outbursts the more she'll learn to control them herself. She needs guidance on what is acceptable behavior. Physically removing her to another room is okay. I would not hold her down or restrain her. She may try and leave the room a few times but once she learns that you will bring her back to the room and be there with her until she calms down she'll stop trying to get away.

Also, as uncomfortable as it can be having to physically remove her from under the table, trying to talk and reason with her in front of everyone else is very embarrassing for her. She is all of a sudden on the spot and everyone is watching to see how she will react. When my DS acts up at his grandparents house (or anywhere else in public) we find a quiet spot to visit and talk it through. He loves his grandparents dearly and he spends a great deal of time at their house, they are very close, but he does not handle it well if he does something (throwing a toy, etc.) and we have to talk about it in front of everyone else. He didn't like it at first when I would take him to another room to calm down but after a few times he gets it now and responds well when I tell him we need to go and talk.

As you know, the hitting is unacceptable. Once she has calmed down talk it through with her. Find out what she is feeling when she hits. Ask her what she can do to help herself not hit. And, talk about natural consequences to her hitting if she can't control herself.

As far as her not responding to people - I wouldn't make her talk to anyone. Just simply explain to her that her behavior may seem rude to others and not to be surprised when those folks stop acknowledging her. That's a natural consequence to her behavior. You are not responsible for her responding. If you feel like you have to say something you can just look at the person, shrug your shoulders and start a conversation with them yourself. My son sometimes doesn't want to talk to others. I do not label him as "oh, he's just shy" or tired or whatever. I don't have to make excuses for him - he is responsible for his behavior. The shrug, smile and change of topic in the conversation works pretty well. When you are consistent with this and she learns that you will not get into a battle of wills/control over her responding to people she will learn that it is her sole responsibility. When she figures out that this isn't something you are going to "talk" to her about or try and make her talk to others she'll figure out on her own how she wants to respond. This is the behavior I would ignore. I would talk to her about it once - that it hurt grandma's feelings (or whatever it was) that she didn't respond, what the natural consequences of her ignoring others will bring and then leave it at that. As you said, she is intelligent and she'll understand it. I'd visit with her about it once, not in the heat of the moment but later when she is calm, and then I'd ignore the behavior and give her space to find her own way on this one.

I'm sorry you guys are struggling through this. Part of helping her through it will mean changing the way you respond to her. You'll have to make some major adjustments yourself so that she can find her way to more acceptable behavior. Regaining your authority (not punishing authority, but the good kind that a child knows is there to support and provide structure and loving guidance) will take time but it will be well worth it.

Best wishes!


what a wonderful, thoughtful post-i really appreciate what you said about responding to people in public. we've had the issue come up lately, and i've been wondering how to address it (or if at all).


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

How's she doing with her peers? You don't say whether your daughter is in school, or whether you are homeschooling. If she is in school, how is that going? If you are homeschooling, what happens when you get together with groups of children? I know that in some ways the homeschooling environment is way different--fewer children, more ages, more tailored activities--but the ability to socialize has to be there no matter which route you're taking. Some homeschoolers are more socially mature, indeed.

If she doesn't melt down and get under the table at school--or in crafts projects with other homeschoolers--then it's the high stress of restaurants with grandma, and you have to cut out that activity until she can handle it.


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## holothuroidea (Mar 30, 2008)

My little girl is only a baby, so I'm not really speaking out of experience here but I have something for you (OP) to think about.

Picture yourself as a child. How would you behave if your primary caregiver were (in your words) afraid of you? Ignored you when you acted out?


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## olliepop (Jun 26, 2007)

Quote:

i don't know alot of particulars on food sensitivities, but i do see a MARKED difference in my dd's behavior if she eats lots of protein-rich foods and fresh foods (happy, energenic, even tempered) vs. carbs and processed things (wild). she eats alot of something high carb or sugary (like honey nut cheerios) and she is a wild child within a half hour. she literally can't sit still! we went thru a very picky phase 6 months ago-i kept healthy, easy to get for herself stuff in the fridge for snacks, and fixed simple and healthy meals until she got past it. i didnt make a big deal over it, and she's great now, even ate all her whole-wheat breadcrumb battered tilapia, strawberries, broccoli and cheese, and walnuts last night! and asked for seconds! the food thing is a biggie.
So where does one begin in changing a child's diet? What do you recommended we omit first? What is the biggest "offender?" Is there a website that might help?


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## Cheshire (Dec 14, 2004)

Look into starting an elimination diet. It is easy to do but tough to follow because it is very limiting for the first few weeks. Once you've been on it for a while then you start re-introducing foods one at a time and watch for reactions.

My DH has terrible food allergies and he does the diet every now and then to see if anything new has cropped up that he isn't recognizing in his diet.

I can imagine it would be even harder to do with a child who doesn't understand why they can't eat all of their regular foods but the benefits will be worth it.

Best wishes!


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## foreverinbluejeans (Jun 21, 2004)

Public parenting is so hard.

However, your daughter already is out of control. Gentle discipline doesn't mean only the lack of hitting, yelling, and punishing. It isn't wimpy discipline. It means learning and using effective parenting skills. It's easy to learn and it's not too late. There are many great books listed in the resources. Without Spanking or Spoiling is aimed at toddlers but it is very good and might be a good start.

Right now I wouldn't get too off track blaming food allergies, tactile problems, ect. and get to learning how to respond to your daughter's behavoir and turn things around. My kids have food allergies, tactile problems, other medical problems, developmental disabilities, and bipolar disorder and like many other kids with challenges they were able to be 'tamed' with gentle discipline.

I'm sorry if I'm siding with the MIL. Don't make excuses for your child or yourself. Be tough! (This is me trying to be nice, I'm really trying to not be mean).


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## H & J's Mom (Jun 1, 2008)

Your example in your post described many family dinners with my sister's DD to a T.

My sister has been struggling to figure her out since birth. A big part of her issues seem to be social anxiety ... but often times it would just be me, sis and our kids and she's have a crazy meltdown over anything, everything, and nothing. I hate to even say this but I found it very hard to be around ... or like her









My sister finally talked DN into joining Brownies (sis tried for years but DN would not join anything that she couldn't stay with her mom for), my sister says it has been their saving grace ... and I would have to agree!!

My niece is turning 9 this summer and over the last year or so she has become an entirely different child ... one I actually enjoy being with









DN even got on stage for their school concert at Xmas to do a solo speaking part, and did it!!

Maybe your LO is in need of a different kind of socialization ... Team sports, clubs, etc. ...

I hope you find something that works for the family, I've seen first hand the stress it can cause everyone involved!!


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