# Babysitter contracts?



## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Here is an idea I had just in case we ever advertise and hire a sitter that way: have her sign a contract, the idea being she would be sued if she violated the contract.

Would this work? How could I make such a contract legally binding? Here are some things I'd like it to say - no personal phone calls; no inviting friends over; no personal reading or internet use; no TV watching; no spanking; and no smoking or alcohol use while on the job, for starters.

What do you think? Would you sit for someone who wanted to make these agreements legally binding? Personally I think they are bare minimum standards of care, but from what I hear they are things a lot of parents have trouble with when they hire sitters.


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## Seasons (Jun 10, 2004)

This is JUST my opinion, but if my babysitting daughter [not that boys don't/shouldn't babysit, but my only child is female!] showed me such a contract from potential parents, I'd --

1. Laugh. Anybody watching any one of the zillion law-procedural shows knows a breach of contract case requires proof of damages. What would the parents say, that they lost ten cents worth of banana she ate without authorization?
2. Commiserate. Clearly this family has a lot of stress, and had poor sitting situations in the past, and feel they have no control over selecting and choosing another sitter.
3. Suggest that my daughter find other, calmer families for which to sit. Here good sitters are VERY much in demand; why should she involve herself with folks who'd pick apart her every move?


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## mammastar2 (Dec 17, 2004)

Well, all contracts are legally binding whether you write them down or not - you just need an offer, someone to accept the offer, and something exchanged in return. So yes, like any terms of employment these would be binding. I think that writing down the terms of engagement is often a good idea, to avoid misunderstandings and to be clear about what is important to you.

So far as suing goes: (a) it's a lot of trouble; (b) in contract law, you don't get anything without proving damages. Just the fact that a babysitter didn't do something she said he or she would do would not entitle you to something in court. The thing being done wrong would have had to have caused you some damage that could be counted in $$$, and you'd have to prove that part of it.

So, I'd go for it from the point of view of communicating your expectations, but it doesn't provide any particualr benefit in terms of suing on it later.


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## wednesday (Apr 26, 2004)

Hmmm...I wouldn't hire a sitter that I had those type of concerns about. We have only used a few sitters but they were always people we already had some kind of relationship with, not just random teenagers.


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## mammastar2 (Dec 17, 2004)

By the way, I think most of the terms you stated sound just fine and well worth communicating to potential sitters. You won't have problems with any of them! I remember you were having trouble finding care, having had mostly unpaid friends and family who weren't too keen on your way of doing things, and paying a sitter will be a lot easier on that front.









The no personal calls, no personal reading I didn't quite get - I would agree if my daughter was up and about. The sitter should be hanging out with her, not doing her own thing. But I fully expect that when she's in bed the sitter is probably going to be doing her homework, reading a book, or chatting with a friend. What else would they be doing at that point?

You probably want to strike a happy balance between sounding clear on your expectations and sounding like nice reasonable folks to work for.


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

And I'll tell you why.

It's the same concept as with asking a Dr. to sign an intact care agreement in some sense. You feel that the contract is neccesary because you don't trust that individual to care for your child as you would want them to. As YOU would. This is the root of the need for such things. Trust. No, I don't blame you, I wouldn't trust a teenager with my kids. I was a teenage babysitter once. WAnt to know what motivates a teen sitter to follow your rules? Money.

I used to babysit for a lady with some strict guidelines. She sat me down, explained what she wanted and expected out of me. That she wanted her kids to enjoy having a sitter rather than seeing it as just someone to watch them for the parents benefit. Then she said this " Now, if you agree to follow those guidelines, I will pay you very well. My kids are pretty well behaved and you will like babysitting here. If you do not follow my rules to the T, I will not ask you to babysitt again. This is what my piece of mind is worth."

She gave my 50 bucks for the evening (3 hours) and I walked around with that checklist all night making sure everything was done and all the kids were having fun. I also cleaned up her kitchen... It was a great job and all I had to do was follow her rules. '

Now, I know everyone can't afford that but the idea stood out to me. It made it very clear that I was working for her and she was the boss, there or not.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:

The no personal calls, no personal reading I didn't quite get - I would agree if my daughter was up and about. The sitter should be hanging out with her, not doing her own thing. But I fully expect that when she's in bed the sitter is probably going to be doing her homework, reading a book, or chatting with a friend. What else would they be doing at that point?
The problem with this is if the kids are napping on a schedule, the sitter becomes accustomed to it (maybe) and then expects she will have "her" time when she can do her own personal things. Then if the kids don't stick to the schedule, she may feel entitled to that time anyway and might want them to get back on the schedule, or may just start ignoring them so she can read or whatever.

Also, if the kids are asleep, the sitter might see no harm in having the friend come over...I just want a potential sitter to be focused on work all the time she is at the house. If the kids are asleep, she can use the time to plan an activity, clean up from previous activities, or prepare a small snack. (Yes, I would plan on paying her well!)

I guess it wouldn't make sense to drag a sitter into court because I caught her watching TV. I'd just fire her. But I think sitters know they can easily get other jobs if they are fired; I wanted to be clear that there could potentially be other consequences. But I guess maybe it wouldn't work.

Still, just signing an agreement can sometimes put someone into a different mindset.


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## wednesday (Apr 26, 2004)

This thread suddenly put me in mind of prenuptial contracts...my point being if you don't trust the person, you don't trust the person. I'm sorry you're having a hard time tho.

My SIL belongs to a homeschool co-op and has gotten several of her sitters through contacts on the email list. She's been very very happy with the girls she's used so far.

I have another POV as a former sitter. One family I used to sit for had three kids and knew they could be kind of a handful. They really didn't expect the sitter to do much more than keep an eye on things and put the kids to bed at a certain time. One thing they did that was really helpful was this: their kids were usually very limited in how much TV they were allowed to watch. But when they had a sitter they were allowed to watch a video and eat popcorn. It was a big treat for them so they actually LOVED having a sitter and they behaved really well.

I think from the parents' POV it was unrealistic to ask someone else to be Mary Poppins to their three spirited kids. They just wanted the kids to be safe and reasonably happy until the parents got back.

I would never have watched their kids for 5 minutes if they had approached me from an adversarial perspective, like with a list or contract of what I could and couldn't do. I saw myself as their kids' "friend," not so much as an employee, fwiw.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

We've actually never had a sitter that was not a trusted friend or family member, and it's been months since we've had one we do know, so I haven't really had a bad experience.

My two kids are very high-need and I doubt they would leave a sitter much time for TV watching or reading, but so many people have this idea that childcare is easy work because you just turn on the TV and the kids entertain themselves. I want to be right up front that the job is not like that; it will be very demanding and I will pay well, but in exchange for that payment I expect hard work. With other sitters who have just offered to help us out and didn't expect payment, I didn't care if they had the TV on. I often sent a video along. This was usually in their own homes anyway.

I know you shouldn't hire someone you don't trust, but most jobs come with rules and with agreements that must be signed. I wouldn't install hidden cameras or anything, so it would largely be the honor system but I would check the computer's history list and there may be times when I'd arrive home early and unannounced.

It could be that the job would be so demanding that no one would be interested - the people who have helped us for free are no longer willing - but that's a chance I'm going to take. I can afford to discriminate - maybe it would be different if I had to go back to work and find someone to take them all day, but I'm just wanting occasional nights out with dh, so I don't feel like I need to compromise on what's important to me. If someone isn't willing to put my children above all else while they are in my home, I will just do without childcare until I find someone who is willing, or until my children are less demanding.

It could be a better way to get my expectations across is to have a thorough interview process, using the questions from Protecting the Gift.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

I use a lot of sitters and I sort of do what you are saying. That is, I write down my expectations and rules for sitters. IMHO, it is pointless to make it a signed, formal contract. You really aren't going to be able to take a sitter to court because they turned on the TV. But, it is very helpful to have all the info I can think that they would need about the kids written down because that way I don't have to go through the rules every time or with every sitter, and I think the kids get better care if the sitters know as much about them as possible.

So, I have about a 4 page document that is tacked to the fridge. It includes a page of emergency numbers, address of the house and directions (for the pizza guy or the ambulence driver), height, weight and medical points on the kids. Then 1 page on each of the kids schedules, likes/dislikes, stuff to make the sitters life easier. Little things that you might forget to tell a sitter as you went out the door. Then I have a page of rules/expectations. This makes it clear and easy for everybody. It was also a sneaky way to tell my parents that if they ever hit the kids, they wouldn't babysit again, but that's another story.

I tell each sitter two basic rules: The only thing I expect them to do is take care of the kids (e.g. no cleaning, they don't even have to pick up the dishes). And my basic parenting philophy is to respect children and treat them gently. I make sure they know where my "baby sitter guide" is and other details of course.

I treat my sitters with as much respect as I expect them to show my children (modeling works with sitters too). I pay them top dollar. I have fun stuff for everyone to do. I try to make their job as easy as possible. I choose them carefully. Then I get out of the way and trust them to do it.


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## jenaniah (Nov 23, 2003)

Just speaking as a nanny here...I doubt very seriously that you will get someone to watch your kids with those rules laid out...I defnitely wouldn't do it. I don't mean to step on your toes or offend you but you are not treating your potential sitter with the respect they deserve when you lay out rules like that. Having rules laid out like that will actually be more likely to lead to resentment towards you from your sitter which in turn will lead to resentment of your children.


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## BrooklynDoula (Oct 23, 2002)

Setting up this contract seems like a VERY bad idea to me. I have two babysitters for my son - one during the week for 10 hours at her house and one at my house on weekends and whenever else I need her. The first is a local mom who is trining to be a teacher and the second is a local college student. I pay them well and treat them well. I told them what we want and like and I also trust them to use their judgement. They are both awesome. Are they always perfect? No. Am I always perfect? No. But on he things that really matter - they are unfailing.

I have and do work doing some childcare and NOTHING replaces good, open, kind communication. A contract seems silly to me, especially if you are doing so with the itenion of being able to use it punatively. What you want is someone who will LOVE your child and care for them with love, no someone who will follow your contract.

My 2 cents.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

But I think it's different when you're a nanny, even if you don't live in - you're expected to take care of the children as a full-time job. If you only worked for a family for 3-4 hours one evening a week, would you still expect to have breaks and to do things other than tend to the children? In most jobs, it's pretty standard to not have a break when you only work 4 hours or less. Is this not so for sitters?

I haven't been a sitter in a long time; not since I was 14, actually. And I never sat for babies or high-need kids.


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## Saartje (Oct 22, 2004)

I think Jen just hit the nail on the head: this is about respect. Yes, other jobs have contracts you sign. Do you really want to put caring for your child in the same category as being a faceless drone in a cubicle for 9 hours a day? Have a discussion with a potential sitter. Discuss your expectations (and try to keep those reasonable) and the expectations the sitter has of you. Don't try to make about, "Do this and don't do that or I'll sue you." That's insulting, and IMO will assure the only people willing to work for you are from the bottom of the barrel: the folks who can't get any other sitting jobs.


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## jenaniah (Nov 23, 2003)

I also sit for families who aren't my FT nanny jobs and if I had someone lay out rules like that there is no way I would do it, but it really isn't about the rules (although I do think yours are a bit unreasonable) it's about the tone with which they are presented. I think that it will actually be worse in the situation of someone only occassionally watching your child as opposed to a FT nanny b/c said sitter will not have the bond with your kids the way I do with mine, kwim?


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Suppose there were no written rules, and a potential family just said something like "Our children will demand a great deal of your time and energy, and I would like your time here to be focused completely on them. We prefer our sitters not watch TV, make personal phone calls, do schoolwork or use the internet for personal use while our children are in their care." Would this be reasonable?


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## Clarity (Nov 19, 2001)

I think that's a lot more reasonable. The agency I just used to find sitters does use "contracts" - they are statements of mutual expectation and it says very clearly it is NOT a legal contract. Why is that an issue? The second side. YOU as the employer are FAR more likely to be sued. Many, many employers do NOT do employment contracts and some are even loathe to put many details in job descriptions or offer letters since it would be binding in a future employment litigation issue. It is my opinion though that you indeed could write a document outlining your expectations for her, and hers for you. In most places you can fire someone for any reason whatsoever, but putting things in writing potentially makes it a lot more complicated, depending on employment rules in your state, so keep that in mind. It's just as likely to be used as leverage on you, not just you on her. So keep it mutual. Lots of good books on nanny hiring go over how to communicate expectations.

As far as you suing her, it would probably only be worthwhile in the event of theft, property damage, or actual harm to your child. And that assumes you'd be able to collect damages. she's probably broke. But also unlikely to be super sophisticated about employment laws, so she's pretty darn unlikely to sue you too, especially in a part time babysitter situation.


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## jenaniah (Nov 23, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Greaseball*
Suppose there were no written rules, and a potential family just said something like "Our children will demand a great deal of your time and energy, and I would like your time here to be focused completely on them. We prefer our sitters not watch TV, make personal phone calls, do schoolwork or use the internet for personal use while our children are in their care." Would this be reasonable?

Absolutely...I think that is a much more agreeable way to say it









I would however say that if your children should happen to be asleep and things are put away from activities they can do schoolwork, read or watch tv...it's not really fair to expect them to do nothing while the kids are sleeping.


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

I probably wouldn't have babysat for someone who was trying to ban me from reading while the kids were asleep. Usually I would babysit during the evening, and often the kids would be up for the first 2 or 3 hours and then sleep for the next two... kind of pointless to plan an activity when you'll probably be gone before the kids wake up, and cleaning up a bit or having a snack takes half an hour, tops. So I'd have spent an hour and a half doing nothing, which is a waste of time no matter how well you pay me.

A *good* sitter won't feel entitled to have homework time or free time while sitting, but she will be offended at being expected to stare at her toes.

Really, if you don't trust your sitter with your kids, I don't think a contract or rules will help. It's helpful to have some information for the sitter, house rules, if you like, and normal routines and discipline tactics, but I would couch them as useful information to help the sitter do her job well, not as rules for her.

I really took the opposite approach with Rain's sitters, once she was 5 or so. I trusted them to make good decsions, and I told them that what was important for me was for her to have a good time. There were occasional misjudgements, but they were all due to the sitter thinking Rain would have fun doing something and going a little too far, rather than the sitter ignoring her needs or being mean to her. She loved having sitters...

Dar


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## Saartje (Oct 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Greaseball*
Suppose there were no written rules, and a potential family just said something like "Our children will demand a great deal of your time and energy, and I would like your time here to be focused completely on them. We prefer our sitters not watch TV, make personal phone calls, do schoolwork or use the internet for personal use while our children are in their care." Would this be reasonable?

That's much better.







I do agree with pps again, though, that if the children are asleep, you can't expect a sitter to just sit. And if they're only occasional sitters for a night out, no, you can't expect them to be using that time to plan activities, either. A full-time caregiver plans activities, but for an occasional one the parent is wise to have something fun the kids can do under the sitter's supervision.


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## slightly crunchy (Jul 7, 2003)

I agree with a lot of the previous posters...

I babysat when I was much younger, was very responsible and did all of those things you requested as a matter of course. I would have been very offended and would not have babysat for someone who asked me to sign a contract for an occasional parents night out kind of thing. I would think a contract is more appropriate for someone who is doing full time care, but not so you could sue them. More so that your expectations are clearly laid out. I agree with the idea of looking through a homeschooling group, or perhaps a local church youth group, for responsible sitters. Just an idea.

I also think it is asking a whole lot of an evening babysitter, or even an occasional daytime sitter, to plan activities for your children and make food for them, other than maybe popping some popcorn or opening a box of crackers. The sitter should be expected to feed what you have provided, play with them and spend all her/his time with them while they are awake. After they are asleep, I certainly would expect a sitter to stay off of my computer and maybe leave the TV off. But if kids are sleeping I don't think you can expect them not to read a book or something. Better that than going through your closets or having friends over to pass the time.


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## Mothra (Jun 4, 2002)

We haven't used a teenage babysitter in a long time. Our regular babysitters are a couple, both 21 years old and in the military. Our kids are not high needs at all and the only instructions we leave, other than basic care stuff, is that the kids have fun. We leave them with a verbal list of things the kids are interested in doing at the time and they always have a blast. We usually leave them at night, after the baby has gone to bed, and we invite the babysitters to rent a movie on PPV after they go to sleep. I wouldn't hire a babysitter that I didn't trust to turn off the movie if one of my kids needed me.

I absolutely would not have babysat for a family that did not allow me to engage in any activity that did not directly relate to the children even in the event that the kids fell asleep. That's just absurd. Even when I worked at a children's shelter we were allowed to read or do homework if the children were asleep and all of our side work was done. I can't imagine how "planning an activity" would take enough time to fill a naptime.

I think a detailed list of expectations, verbal or written, is a good thing. Never in a million years would I have signed any kind of contract that suggested that I would be sued if there was a breech. First of all, even at 15 I knew that such a thing would never hold up in court. Second, it would have put me immediately on the defensive.

If I were you, I'd spend my time researching the babysitter's background before I hired him or her instead of worrying about contracts. Interview them throroughly and don't hire someone you don't trust. If you trust your babysitter to be flexible then you don't have to worry about them ignoring your children in favor of reading or watching television. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, you know?


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## Mothra (Jun 4, 2002)

One more thing-- I want a babysitter who will do as I ask because of personal integrity, not because they are afraid of being sued. I was a nanny for a little girl whose parents were a nightmare and I started to resent the little girl. I quit almost immediately because I could not be a good nanny to this child because of the ridiculous requests of her parents. Even if you do pay well, if you start with the premise that the babysitter cannot be trusted to make even the smallest decision on her own then you open up the possibility that the resentment the sitter will feel toward you will be directed at your child.


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## PikkuMyy (Mar 26, 2004)

I just typed a huge reply but my log-in info got messed up so it disappeared.

I'll just say, I agree with most PP. I wouldn't babysit with those rules and I am about to get my MA in Special Education for moderate to severe disabilities and have been babysitting for 14 years. It's just not reasonable. It is reasonable to have some written expectations and important information, especially if you have specific views about TV watching, bedtime routines, etc. And there you can clarify what I do agree are important rules like no friends over and no smoking, no physical punishment. In fact, though, I'd be very thorough about that in the initial interview and make sure that anyone I hired was into GD.

I do feel it's reasonable to have a written agreement for a full-time childcare provider because often times, parents can come to expect more than the nanny thought she was signing on for, or that the nanny isn't doing as much with the children or house as the parents thought.


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## dharmamama (Sep 19, 2004)

The way I see it, if you don't trust your sitter enough to leave your kids with her/him without getting the sitter to sign the contract, you shouldn't be leaving your kids with that sitter in the first place.

I think most sitters would find that offensive and wouldn't sit for you. I know I wouldn't sit for someone who made it explicity clear they would sue me. I wouldn't let my kids sign such a contract, and if they were under 18 it wouldn't be legally binding anyway.

Namaste!


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## dharmamama (Sep 19, 2004)

Wow, I didn't realize you meant no reading or TV watching even when the kids are sleeping. Not reasonable, in my opinion. Yes, the sitter is there to watch your kids, but if the house has been tidied and the sitter has a plan for what to with the kids if/when they wake up, what is even remotely objectionable about the sitter reading until they wake up?

Namaste!


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

"No personal reading" even when the kids are asleep? Are you kidding?

This is nuts.

And how much do you pay. It better be something extraordinary if you want to have any chance of getting a sitter with these rules.


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## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

We use sitters on a very frequent basis and I thik your expectations are too high. If you are talking about an occasional sitter, I am not sure it is necessary for your children to be continually stimulated by the sitter. We do not have TV service but we do have a DVD player. Dd never gets to watch TV but like someone else said, we do allow the sitter to let dd watch a DVD we pick out if they want to. It is a special treat for dd and makes her look forward to sitters rather than focus on missing us. I allow book reading, sleeping, DVD watching, surfing, snacking, phone calls, and even a friend to come over after dd is asleep. We are typically out until after 2 am and it would be insane to expect a sitter to sit around from 9pm to 2am without doing anything. I also have a split rate for sitters. I pay $7 an hour for time when dd is awake and $5 for after she is asleep (unless she keeps waking up in which case I pay $7 for the whole night).


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## mammastar2 (Dec 17, 2004)

Greaseball, just to give you an idea of what works for our family...

We recently moved to a new neighbourhood. We haven't been out together in months, so decided to look for a sitter. There's a 16 year old girl across the street, so we talked to her mom and found out she does indeed babysit. We met with the girl and her mom and dad - they wouldn't go for her babysitting without them meeting the family first. This is a good sign! It also means, though, that if you seem like you'll be a handful (mentioning potential lawsuits, inability to do her homework while the kids are in bed for the night), mom and dad will probably nix it. She gave us her resume and told us about the other kids she has babysat. We called her references, they were good. Resume has spelling and grammar errors, but lots of kid-centric part-time jobs, and we're looking for a nice girl who likes kids, not a rocket scientist. We learned her mom will be home across the street as back-up when she's babysitting. Sounds good. We hired her.

Date night arrives, we talk to dd about how a girl will come to play with her and put her to bed. She's thrilled. While I get ready, dd and dh walk across the street to pick up the sitter. Sitter's mom is making pizza to bring over for the sitter to eat and offers some for dd too. We say sure, let her know dd is vegetarian - no problem. Dd shows sitter her room and says she wants to do playdough. I show the sitter where the playdough is. We point out the leftovers in the fridge that she can heat up if dd doesn't want the pizza, tell her the bedtime routine, and give her our contact info. Dd gives her a big hug and calls bye over her shoulder. We get home when we say we will and pay her ($7/hour). She's played playdough with her and given dd a bath, and sat with her while she fell asleep, since dd had been singing to herself in bed. Then it looks like she chatted on the phone with a friend - not an issue with me, since it looks like dd had a great time and got all the care she needed. Next a.m, dd says she wants the sitter to come to her birthday party...

You mentioned that you haven't paid for care before. It's a relatively new thing for us too, but it's been very trouble-free, so I thought maybe just setting out how it works for us might be useful for you. My suggestion is to keep it low-key, and try to set out your expectations in a respectful and reasonable way. Look around you in your community for girls in their prime babysitting years, with involved parents who will provide back-up - all of our sitters have come from this pool, and it's been great. Focus on the basics, which is that your kids be safe and happy while you're out for a few hours, and that they look forward to the next time the sitter arrives (and vice versa).


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

My reason for specifying that I didn't want any TV watching while the kids were asleep was mainly because I wouldn't expect them to sleep, and I wouldn't want the sitter to attempt to get them to sleep so she can watch TV. But if we had an evening sitter and were expecting we'd be out past their bedtimes, then I could see nothing wrong with her reading or watching TV. But, I still want to make it clear that the kids need to come first, so I don't want her to get really invested in a TV show and then be resentful if the kids won't stay in bed. I'd suggest that she tape shows that were really important to her.

Most of the sitters around town charge $5 an hour; this includes high school and college students. So I figured I'd pay $10 an hour. Not a huge salary, but double what they are getting. I don't know if I'd feel comfortable with someone under 18, but $10 an hour is more than they could make at other jobs.

If any of you were/are sitters, what sort of pay would you expect for very high-need children? (The 3-year-old is not potty trained and other sitters have reported that the baby screams literally the entire time and refuses to eat, for starters...) What sort of rules would you find reasonable? The things I cannot bend on are the no spanking, no CIO, no friends over and no smoking/alcohol.

I think what I can do is ask during an interview how they make sure to take care of themselves on the job, as well as their views on schedules for children.


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## MomInCalifornia (Jul 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Greaseball*
My reason for specifying that I didn't want any TV watching while the kids were asleep was mainly because I wouldn't expect them to sleep, and I wouldn't want the sitter to attempt to get them to sleep so she can watch TV. But if we had an evening sitter and were expecting we'd be out past their bedtimes, then I could see nothing wrong with her reading or watching TV. But, I still want to make it clear that the kids need to come first, so I don't want her to get really invested in a TV show and then be resentful if the kids won't stay in bed. I'd suggest that she tape shows that were really important to her.

Most of the sitters around town charge $5 an hour; this includes high school and college students. So I figured I'd pay $10 an hour. Not a huge salary, but double what they are getting. I don't know if I'd feel comfortable with someone under 18, but $10 an hour is more than they could make at other jobs.

If any of you were/are sitters, what sort of pay would you expect for very high-need children? (The 3-year-old is not potty trained and other sitters have reported that the baby screams literally the entire time and refuses to eat, for starters...) What sort of rules would you find reasonable? The things I cannot bend on are the no spanking, no CIO, no friends over and no smoking/alcohol.

I think what I can do is ask during an interview how they make sure to take care of themselves on the job, as well as their views on schedules for children.

Not sure what you mean by how they take care of themselves on the job. Can you explain that a little further. I babysat for 10 years or so, and I can tell you honestly I would not sit for you. The way you are appraching the situation is very adversarel (sp). It just would not be worth my time. I probably would espesially not sit for you if the baby was going to scream the entire evening. You want to attract great babysitters, and great babysitters are normally quite busy and in demand!

Realistically, the great, high demand sitters are going to take jobs from families who respect them, and make it enjoyable to do their job. A list of demands and screaming children are not going to mak the cut.

I look for a sitter who I trust and who seems to enjoy what she is doing. I have a gal sit who I went to school with. I have known her for 12 years. She is my age, and is an elementary school teacher. When she comes over for more than just an hour or two, we install DD car seat in her car, give her the jogging stroller, and the stocked diaper bag, and tell them to have fun. I always tell her she is welcome to have her fiance over, and I of corse understand that she is going to work, watch TV, or be on the phone after she puts Abby down.

Because of her integrity and the person she is, I know she will put Abby's needs before any of those things. I don't need a contract to spell that out for either one of us.


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## Mothra (Jun 4, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Greaseball*
My reason for specifying that I didn't want any TV watching while the kids were asleep was mainly because I wouldn't expect them to sleep, and I wouldn't want the sitter to attempt to get them to sleep so she can watch TV.

Why would you hire a sitter that you thought might do this?

Your area has really low pay for babysitters, so I can't say what I would charge there. I made $12 an hour about 12 years ago babysitting a child with autism. He was relatively easy, too.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Greaseball*
If any of you were/are sitters, what sort of pay would you expect for very high-need children? (The 3-year-old is not potty trained and other sitters have reported that the baby screams literally the entire time and refuses to eat, for starters...) What sort of rules would you find reasonable? The things I cannot bend on are the no spanking, no CIO, no friends over and no smoking/alcohol.

I was the "clean up" sitter on base growing up, meaning that I would babysit kids that literally no one else would touch. Like the folks with 6+ kids, the high energy ones, the screamers, ect. 90 percent of the time, I absolutely adored it, because the parents didn't care about anything except me taking care of the kids (no housework, and most of the time no cooking either). It was also pretty fun to work at those houses because we got to run wild through the house and backyard, and those parents tended to be the ones that didn't bat an eyelash when the kids and I would have supersoakers water fights in the backyard, or if we erected a gigantic pillow/sheet fort (I always cleaned that up when the parents got home). The kids who cried the whole time were a bit harder, because I was a pretty empathic kid and didn't like knowing that the parents would leave a screaming unhappy baby. (It didn't bother me personally, because if you listen to a kid that's not yours when you're not a mom generally you can start to tune it out--but I still felt sorry and sad for the baby) I was able to get most of those kids to calm down too, maybe because I was strong and could carry them around and I didn't react negatively or stress out about it.

So...I was definitely not afraid of what other people thought were hard to handle kids.

However, if someone had threatened to sue me if I violated their rules, or if they had a whole lot of rules (other than disciplinary stuff--that's not really a rule to me, but the conditions under which you'll accept the job. I'd NEVER work for families that expected me to spank, and some actually did!) about how I could entertain the kids or what I could do during any down time.

I think you have to wait until you find someone who is physically energetic and playful, if you want all of those rules followed to a t. (And the reason why I say that is that they will already have those rules as their own, not because of anything you say. Just being honest here.) You can't demand nanny standards of babysitters. Well, you can, but you will only get rejects applying unless you are paying nanny wages, and $10/hr for 2 high needs kids isn't.

Maybe you aren't ready for a casual babysitter? Is there any reason why you can't stick with the trusted sitters you have now?

I mean, if you are resigned to allowing your baby to scream the whole time with the sitter AND have a high energy preschooler (honestly, the potty training shouldn't be that big of a deal--LOTS of kids aren't potty trained at 3), then I think you're going to have to be a bit more flexible. Maybe they can't watch TV except for one video that YOU pick. You also will have something easy to prepare for snack/meal. And preferably a list of activities that the sitter can do, and maybe you are willing to clean up after she goes home if it's a messy one (or tell her not to worry about it until you get home and you will help her clean up). But if you start out saying "You can't do x, y, z, oh and by the way my kids might be kind of rough until you get used to them", you're limiting your prospects. It's too much to expect of a babysitter. Another idea would be to contact a nanny agency and ask about temporary care or if they have anyone that would be interested in a once-a-week/every other week gig. You will pay more than $10/hr, but you also will be dealing with a seasoned nanny who likely is used to not using the TV and cleaning as she goes or whatever.

Or maybe it'd be a good idea to just wait for a little bit, until baby is less stranger-anxious. It's hard to wait (I've been waiting for 2 years), but sometimes that's what you have to do for an optimum situation.


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## dharmamama (Sep 19, 2004)

The babysitter is working for you, yes, but if you approach the situation as though the babysitter is a flake who will only toe the line if you dictate a list of rules, you're going to have very few willing candidates to choose from.

I did A LOT of babysitting when I was younger, starting from age 12. I would regularly sit for the three kids up the street (who were 3, 2, and 9 months when I started) as well as for probably at least 50 other families by the time I graduated from college. I was a full-time nanny for 4 different families.

Almost without exception, the families went out of their way to make me feel welcome, appreciated, and supported while I watched their kids. They went out of the way to make sure that it was a special night for the kids, too. For the most part, I was told what I *could* do with the kids, and I was told (as well as having it implied) that my judgement was trusted and that I should do what I thought was right as given situations came up.

The few families who acted like they were doing me a favor giving me this (at the time relatively low-paying) job (I usually made $2-3 an hour, until I was in college, when I made $5 and hour, and I always made meals and cleaned up the house), well, I just somehow wasn't available again when they called me.

It's a scary thing entrusting your kids to a teenaged babysitter. I have never done it and don't plan to for a while. But if I were to hire a teenaged babysitter (or an adult babysitter I didn't already have a close relationship with), I would just have general conversation with them about my wishes, not an indoctrination of my demands. Your attitude will be a key determiner in being able to find and retain reliable babysitters. The really good ones won't put up with being treated like you don't trust them.

The rules you stated you can't bend on are reasonable rules and ones that a good sitter wouldn't try to do anyway. The rest, well, my opinion is that you're going to have to relax a bit.

Namaste!


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:

Maybe you aren't ready for a casual babysitter? Is there any reason why you can't stick with the trusted sitters you have now?
They are not available or willing now. There is only one who I think just can't handle our kids and doesn't want to watch them; the others developed health problems that make it so they can't hold the baby and one couple just had their own child.

I don't know if the youngest would cry the whole time now; it's been a few months since she's been left with anyone. What I thought of doing is having a potential sitter come and visit with us a few times before she was alone with them, so at least the kids would be used to her. And I'd want someone who would be willing to use a sling, which may help. If none of that worked, I'd have to put it off a while longer.

Most daycare centers don't take non-potty-trained preschoolers, so I wasn't sure a sitter would either. Other than that she is not very demanding, but is highly energetic and will probably run around the whole time. She likes us to dance with her and play physical games.


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## mammastar2 (Dec 17, 2004)

The situation with daycares and potty-training (although as I think I said on the other thread, accidents are usually expected!) is to do with the number of kids versus the number of caregivers. Before dd was potty-trained, I'd just point out to a sitter as I was showing her around where her bedtime dipes were, and explain that she needed help in the bathroom with getting up and down, wiping, and so on. It's not anything unusual, and I didn't flag it as such.

I wonder if you're thinking of your kids as more difficult than they are? If you've been going babysitter-less for a while and you're a SAHM without a big support network, by now you're probably totally exhausted, and these issues are looming large for you. I think you'll get very different responses (guess which one is more positive), if you describe your kids as high-needs and screaming, versus energetic and (with the baby) needing some extra TLC while mum is away. You may well be right that the screaming phase is over, after all. Just be sure that you communicate to the sitter what the threshold is when you would want her to call you, and some of the things you do to soothe her when she's upset.


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

If you expect both of your kids to be so needy while you're gone, how about hiring two sitters?

Rain just started babysitting (she's 12 and sits for kids in our apartment complex, so I'm nearby, and either I pop in there or they come over here every hour or two just to check in). She's a good sitter and really plays with the kids and is very kind, but she also doesn't have the same experience an adult would have. She does get $5 an hour, for the record, and even when she's not sitting the kids follow her around outside like she's the pied piper







. Anyway, I was thinking maybe she and I could do some babysitting together sometimes, for people with a lot of kids or else two high-need kids. It would be nice to have two pairs of hands, and I'd feel more comfortable about her babsyitting. I wish we lived close by - but maybe you can find another preteen-mom duo?

I also agree on flexing in normal rules when the sitter is there, or planning something special, be it a video, popcorn, a special new thing to do... something to help your kids see the sitter as a positive, and help your sitter do her job more easily..

Dar


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## PikkuMyy (Mar 26, 2004)

I think hiring a babysitter you think would work out to come and play with your children while you are there is a wonderful idea. That's what's happened with the people I've babysat for on a longer-term basis. That way you can see how he/she interacts with your children and how they respond to the babysitter. It also allows them to meet him/her while you're still there, making the transition easier for them.

I agree that $5 an hour is really low-pay for two children. I live in a rich county but even when I didn't I would never accept that much. OK for a high schooler, but not for a college student! I think your prospects are much better offering $10, as you said. Furthermore, it sounds like your kids are less high-needs than you think. For a 3-year-old, I wouldn't be at all surprised by diapers, and even less surprised by the play-with-me-and-entertain-me-all-night attitude, which I've encountered from most children that age. And why shouldn't I play with them the whole time, since that's what I'm paid to do?

It sounds to me like the most important question that would address all the issues is whether the person applying for the job actually likes children and looks forward to spending as much time as possible interacting with them. If that's the case, then you won't have any issues of them putting TV over children or thinking your kids are too much work.

As for the 1-year-old crying, I babysat for a 9 month old once who cried about half the time I was there. It was night and he really wanted to nurse and refused the EBM in a bottle his mom had prepared. I carried him and sang and walked and rocked until I was too tired, and then put him in his little swing and rocked him until he fell asleep. Boy, I was tired at the end of that and wouldn't look forward to doing it on a regular basis. But I also wouldn't expect that each time. Once he got used to mama being away and got to know me, I'm sure it would have been fine. But they didn't go out very often so that never got to happen. I think meeting the babysitter first, etc. with you there will make it much easier.


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## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

My daughter used to babysit after school for a neighbor. She was paid about $5 an hour. She was there until the oldest son got home from football practice (mom was a single parent working two jobs). She helped with homework, did dishes, but thats it as far as housework. The house was a complete pigsty, and she never picked up anything or did any sort of vacuuming (nor was she asked or expected to). After the younger girl did homework, oftentimes she played Barbie's, braided the girls hair, painted nails, played "house"...the middle son happens to be best friends with her brother/my son, so he was down at our house anyway. I don't recall my daughter reading or doing schoolwork (although sometimes my daughter and the little girl would do homework together at the kitchen table), unless the girl was asleep. She could eat whatever she wanted, etc. Of course, i was three doors away if something came up. she did this for about 2 years.

As a babysitter as a young teen, i remember being very busy, and made alot of money (including enough to pay for a plane ticket and a new bike!). I was able to read (and always always always brought a novel), do schoolwork that sort of thing. There was a no friends rule, which was fine. If i remember correctly, i would do schoolwork and read after the kids were either in bed, or engrossed in a movie. I remember playing with them (including playing candyland and go fish over and over with one little girl). I do remembered being paranoid about one family....they had a screened in pool and the youngest couldn't swim. The TV was never on, and i remember spending alot of time in the girls room....playing Barbie's and doing puzzles there, mostly so i could see her and i never brought a book, because i remember being afraid i would get engrossed (this child was very low maintenance).

I know that the parents loved me, and the kids did too. I never really had a bit of trouble with any parent, and i only have fond memories of my babysitting years.

GB, i hope you find what you are looking for. You might consider some sort of agency.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Greaseball*
I don't know if the youngest would cry the whole time now; it's been a few months since she's been left with anyone. What I thought of doing is having a potential sitter come and visit with us a few times before she was alone with them, so at least the kids would be used to her. And I'd want someone who would be willing to use a sling, which may help. If none of that worked, I'd have to put it off a while longer.

I think you are on to the right idea, Greaseball! That is also VERY reasonable and par for the course. That might be the best way to get your expectations out there too, not as a formal written contract, but on your first hang-out date, you can just casually talk with the potential sitter, let her see how you do things, casually mention how you discipline (as a nanny I kind of liked when the kids would act up, even though sometimes the parents were embarrassed, because then I would see how they handled it and it gave an inroad to talk about things like that--it's hard to believe how many people don't really want to talk about what to do about "problem" behaviors). Honestly, the non-potty training is not going to be an issue for a sitter. The reason why most preschool daycares don't take non potty trained kids is because of licensing issues (you are licensed separately for diapering and potty-trained classes) and facilities. If your 3 year old were your youngest, you might have nannies that only want preschool and above because they don't care to changed diapers, but since you've got a baby you won't be attracting those people anyway.









And your 3 year old sounds like fun. There are plenty of babysitters that LOVE to play with the kids and dance and may even bring their own goodie bag of toys and games (I always did!) with them--it's a good thing to have in reserve to bring out the new and novel toys when everyone's getting fussy and cranky.

So, yeah...do some interviewing, don't hire full on until you've had a couple of playdates under your belt. That is VERY normal. Just try to relax, maybe, and not worry about thinking of every detail--have the basic guidelines during the interview (GD, are they allowed to take the kids on a walk outside the house or only stay inside, ect.), but then let the little details (what kind of redirection works best, what alternatives to tv are fun for the kids, ect.) come out in the playdate(s) and most importantly model what you want yourself. THat will give you more space and opportunity to pay attention to how YOU feel about the sitter, rather than worrying what detail you're forgetting and missing some of those cues. There are lots of people that look great on paper, but they just won't click. And you might find someone who clicks, maybe doesn't have a lot of experience, but is open and teachable and you will get to be a mentor to her too.

And if the playdates don't work out, or you find you don't feel right about it, there is NOTHING wrong with just waiting another few months and then trying again.







I think that if you loosen up on the written down guidelines so that you can have more heart-space as well as head-space going into this, you will have more success AND you will feel less anxious or stressed about it, KWIM?


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## newmainer (Dec 30, 2003)

I definitely would have the sitter come over a few times just to play/visit while you were there. And I would go a step further and do a few short trips- like run to the grocery store for 45 min. and see how it goes, then maybe an hour and a half. It sounds like you have lot of concerns, so why not take it slow until you have a sense of how it's going to be? Might be a bit weird for the sitter, but if you're paying her for her time (even when you're there) then it should still be worth it for her.

and personally, I don't think i would leave a baby with a sitter if i thought she would cry all night. Not fair to the baby, not fair to the sitter. its one thing if they cry for an a little bit here and there, but sustained crying?







doing the short trips would help with that, i think.

i am considering getting a mother's helper for the summer, and a lot of these suggestions have helped me- especially about references and stuff. Thanks!


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