# Offended my sister (long rant)



## Think of Winter (Jun 10, 2004)

Hello,

I am feeling awful and looking for a little support, and maybe some suggestions on how to deal with this.

This morning I was talking to my sister on the phone, and told her how ds has been reaching into a drawer with cutlery, and that this weekend I really need to finish up my drawer and cupboard latches. She then told me that her 3 yr old dd was trying to get a large chef's knife out of a drawer after she saw mama using it. So I said, could you move the knife, or put a latch on the drawer, and she said she didn't need to, dd just "knew she wasn't supposed to touch it." Then I said, "I think you're assuming that dd has more impulse control than she does. She might know she shouldn't, but that won't necessarily stop her."

My sis then started crying, said what I'd said was really offensive, and went on to say that I've offended her often and she never said anything, and that she needed a "break" from talking to me. I have a feeling that most of the things I've said that offended her are related to me trying to discipline gently. She is a little more mainstream with yelling, time outs, and guilt. But I rarely say "you should do it my way", I just explain why we're doing things the way we are.

I have been very moody lately, so maybe I didn't phrase it right. But I really am concerned about her kids sometimes. Another example, my sis has an inground pool with no fence between the house and pool. My sis thinks that her 3 and 5 yr old (last year, 2 1/2 and 4 1/2) are safe because they "know they're not supposed to" go outside alone. Granted, there are locks on the doors (that the kids can reach) and an alarm on the door (that goes off so often in the summer that it's easy to ignore), but I am terrified of that pool. Any time I ask her about putting up a fence, or even locks on the doors that the kids can't reach (or even a lock on the outside fence), she gets offended.

I guess I am just so emotionally drained right now from hormones, and struggling with gd that I'm not up to trying to fix things with sis, but in the future I'd sure like to know how convince her without offending her. Or maybe I should instead try to learn to keep my mouth shut.

Advice?


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

Is it even legal to not have a fence around a pool? I know many municipalities have strict laws about that, and how it must be completely unopenable by children, etc. And if not legally, then she's probably in violation of her homeowners insurance policy.

I think you're right to be worried about her kids, but I don't know what to suggest about how to approach her in a way that will get through.


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## rumi (Mar 29, 2004)

hey colleen,
BTDT .... sisters aren't always the easiset people to discuss perosnal things with. certainly not mine. much as i love her









anyway, about 'convincing' people, i have been known to want to do this too, but it is usually succssful only when you dont try, or at least dont look like you are trying. lie low ... if you are an older sister (as i am) then you have lie even lower.


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## writermommy (Jan 29, 2005)

My brother and I have very different ideas about parenting. He and his wife do CIO and are more punitive in general than dh and I. We really don't discuss these issues. I'll never convince him of the family bed or GD and he'll never change my mind either, so why bother even having the discussion? The pool thing is a safety issue. We had a pool in our old house with baby safety fencing around it to keep our kids safe. I would probably mention that and keep a very close eye on my kids when we were there. Since she doesn't want to hear your opinions, I'd probably avoid these issues and focus on enjoying the time you have together.


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## zavierchick (May 12, 2005)

that's a toughie!







hormones don't help any, either. I wish I had great advice for you- I see alot of this in my future- my little bro just married a gal that thinks we are "way too easy" (her words) on our kids (and I'm not even a really huge gd gal!) As far as how to handle it- well, for us it depends alot on the degree of danger. For instance, I will just live by example on BFing, babywearing, etc. I answer questions, point out our cute new cloth dipes, etc. but I don't really expect her to listen to much (she is very opinionated, even without kids yet) In the case of danger, though-like the pool, I think I would have to say something, and to heck with the consequences. Far better to have her cranked at you than to have something awful happen, to her kids or yours.

Just a side note that may or may not make you feel better- Peanut is three, and there are numerous things in our house (and particularly my office) that are no-nos and she knows it. Amongst others are knives in the kitchen and scissors and needles in my office, and I don't worry about her with any of them. Maybe I should, but I do think your sister may have a point that her dd knows she shouldn't play with certain things and she doesn't worry about her about those things. (did that make any sense?!?)

Good Luck with this one- family can be our best supporters AND our hardest detractors, can't they?


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## peilover010202 (Nov 1, 2005)

I agree with zavierchick - my ds, 2.5yo, definitely knows that some things are totally OFF limits (touching the oven, my curling iron, the electrical outlets, etc.) He knows those things are only for mama (not even daddy in his mind can touch them







). So, I do believe it's possible that her 3 & 5 yr old may know some things are off limits.

But, I would have huge concerns about the pool. Only because I have 2 friends who've had babies drown in the pool because they got outside (sorry for such a morbid story.) So, I wouldn't let up on it. In fact, if she has a partner, I would try talking to the partner about it since your sis isn't listening.

To me, it sounds like your sis won't listen to you with regard to the pool because she feels a little "run over" by you. It doesn't sound to me your that way, but parenting and emotions run on such a deep level. Maybe talking to her partner about your concerns would be valuable. Then her can tackle the issue.


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

It's ignorant, to say the least, to not be warry and try to avoid possible safety issues, such as allowing your children access to butcher knives. i mean seriously. say this with me.

My daughter has access to the kitchen knife but I believe she will not grab it.....

hmmmm ok.

anyways, not alot to say here except you should never stop worrying for the welfare of young children.... If you don't who will?.... I mean seriously, children learn from experiance, and no matter how many times you tell your child 'no honey, it is hot' they won't truly understand until they experiance it.

So what would you do? allow them to lay their hand on the wood burning stove? or put a fence around it to keep them away?.....

you did nothing wrong, and if anything I'd give the girl a call and let her know my real opinions, I mean... if she already thinks y ou are harsh....? anyways, dont take that last bit of advice, just me venting.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*

My daughter has access to the kitchen knife but I believe she will not grab it.....


Well, mine does.


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama*
Well, mine does.










has access or grabs it?

Not sayin, just sayin. Don't know bout lil girls, I wasnt even raised AROUND one, but me bein a lil boy, as well as most other lil boys, we wanna know 'why' we arent supposed to, and we usually wont be satisfied till we find out the hard way.

And in that respect? I don't think us lil boys ever really grow up


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## tealee (Jun 1, 2005)

Interesting timing. This week my 3 year old got ahold of my meat cleaver ( that I really thought he could not get at) and made nine good size gashes on my new kitchen faucet.


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## Think of Winter (Jun 10, 2004)

Thank you so much for the feedback. I think I just wanted to get this off my chest more than anything. My relationship with my sister has been tense for quite a while, and I am upset about it and don't know what to do to fix it. I think a break would be good for both of us, although I wish it were different.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *peilover010202*
I agree with zavierchick - my ds, 2.5yo, definitely knows that some things are totally OFF limits (touching the oven, my curling iron, the electrical outlets, etc..

I am curious about this, peilover. I know all children are different, and it's virtually impossible to make a house truly, 100% safe for a child, but I just cannot imagine doing this with my 25 mo ds. I guess I just don't have many things (anything?) that is off limits. When my stove is hot, ds is not in the kitchen without me. I covered the outlets, whereas my sis told me that when her kids got mobile, she led them around to each outlet in the house, pointed it out, and and made some noise that scared them enough that they were crying by the end of it. So how do you know that your child won't touch something when you're not there? I am truly curious, not criticizing you. Did you use fear or reason to explain what's off limits? With either one, how do you know your ds has the impulse control? Is it possible to enforce this without using fear?

And a little more info about the pool, it is fenced, but the house is the inside the fence. I'd love to find a way to convince her to make this safer, but I'm at a loss. I tried sending info about pool safety along with sources of "clear" fencing (she doesn't want to spoil the view from her back windows by fencing between the house and pool.

Thanks again mamas and dads. I really appreciate your feedback.


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## writermommy (Jan 29, 2005)

I'm going to try to describe the baby fencing we had in Florida. I hope it comes out right and you can picture it. Our pool was screened in inside a screen room. When you walked out our sliding doors, we had a patio area covered with cool decking. (similar to concrete but doesn't get hot for you non Floridians) At the end of our patio area, about a foot or so before the pool we had baby safe fencing installed. I can't remember the name of the company right now that makes it, but it's available through any pool company. They can refer you. The fencing was a strong mesh that could withstand over 150 pounds of pressure. Every two feet there was a thin white metal pole that fit into holes drilled into the patio. The fencing then clipped to the side of the house and the end of our screen room. It could also be attached to the fence, if there is no screen room. The fencing could be removed partially or completely by taking out the poles and rolling it out of the way for parties. We never removed all of ours but would remove a section for parties. I loved the fencing. My kids could play out on the patio area and be safe from the dangers of the pool. The mesh fencing didn't really block the view of our pool. It could still be easily seen. I know this is a concern for your sister. I personally wouldn't have cared if it did. When dh wanted to add the pool, I agreed only if we installed the safety fencing at the same time. So many kids drown in pools, even kids much older than your sister's. The fact that it is removable is a benefit she may enjoy, since it can be taken out for pool parties. I hope this makes sense. If I think of the company name, I'll post again and let you know.


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## Brinda (Oct 28, 2005)

Ewwww... I think it's asking for trouble leaving something dangerous within access of a young child. Yes they KNOW they shouldn't do/touch it, but that's what makes it all the more tempting...


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## AidansMommy1012 (Jan 9, 2006)

Sibling relations can be so funny. For one thing, I really think that the yelling and whatnot that you say your sister does a bit more may even play into what she's feeling. I don't think (I really hope) that yelling or scaring a child into obedience makes the parent feel really good either. She may have a lot of negative feelings stored up due to the way she's chosen to discipline her kids, and be resentful of you because you've found another way to make it work. Is she very competitive with you? She may, for whatever reason, feel like she has to prove herself better than you as a parent, which could explain why she's so touchy on taking parenting advice from you.

On the pool, knife, etc...It sucks, but at the end of the day, all we can really do is parent our own kids and hope for the best. She doesn't seem especially receptive to you and I doubt other attempts will be more successful. Is there another source, like your parents, where she might be more receptive to the info?


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## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

I can't see anything wrong with the way you worded that, very reasonable, IMO. If she's offended...well thats just weird, I don't see anything to be offended about.

As for the pool...that is totally unsafe, and for the safety of your niece I hope you are able to get through to her. Maybe foward the number of children who drown in their family pool every single year? I'm sure their parents thought their kids 'knew' it was off limits, but like you said kids don't have impulse control. Sorry to be blunt, but I don't see how a 'pretty view' is worth her daughters life.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

She doesn't touch it, but she has access. It's in a kitchen drawer that technically she could reach.

Some of us don't have a zillion dollars to throw around on fancy babyproofing gadgets. The more middle or upper class ppl I know have all these special gadgets everywhere, to prevent baby from opening doors, cupboards, the toilet seat, etc etc on and on.

I don't.

I talk to my kid, I keep an eye on my kid, and it's all good.

I know that wouldn't work with all kids, of course, but it does with mine.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

:

I have never worried about my knife drawer and rarely childproof much. What I do for childproofing is usually broken or whatnot by the time they are 2 and by then I have taught them either how to use it or that they may not. I either put it up, supervise or teach them how to use it. Three kids and we have never had an injury.

Your SIL is not an idiot. let her parent her way. trust that she has her childrens best intrest at heart. If someone came over to my house and constantly accused me of not caring enough or not knowing what I am doing or acting like they always had a better, safer, more caring way (_don't you care enough to put a gate around your pool. the precautions you have taken are not enough. Don't you care enough to lock up your knives from your three year old? You may think she has it but you are so wrong, don't you know there is a better way? don't you know my way is right and yours is wrong?_ ) I would be more than hurt. I would be ticked off. you are assuming (or it least it seems to her) she hasn't put any thought into this, that she isn't educated enough, that she hasn't properly taught her children well enough, or perhaps she feels you are accusing her of being to cheap to do it right. She could be feeling any number of things but at any rate she doesn't want your opinion about how she is doing her job as a parent or how much you think she cares. It doesn't sound like she has asked your opinion on any of this. Unless she does just drop it and trust that she knows her children and knows how to keep them safe.


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## Think of Winter (Jun 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka*
Your SIL is not an idiot. let her parent her way. trust that she has her childrens best intrest at heart. If someone came over to my house and constantly accused me of not caring enough or not knowing what I am doing or acting like they always had a better, safer, more caring way (_don't you care enough to put a gate around your pool. the precautions you have taken are not enough. Don't you care enough to lock up your knives from your three year old?
_
_
_
_
Someone else need to rant today? Just wanted to thank you for upsetting me all over again. FYI, I NEVER said or implied that my sister is an idiot. She is extremely bright, capable, and a wonderful mother, as I tell her often. I thought this was a place to come for a little support and encouragement. And to assume that I "constantly accuse" her of not caring enough or not knowing what she's doing is a really ugly assumption. Perhaps I am not in the right place after all._


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## NocturnalDaze (Jul 3, 2002)

I think your sister needs to get a grip.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *colleen95*
She then told me that her 3 yr old dd was trying to get a large chef's knife out of a drawer after she saw mama using it. So I said, could you move the knife, or put a latch on the drawer, and she said she didn't need to, dd just "knew she wasn't supposed to touch it." Then I said, "I think you're assuming that dd has more impulse control than she does. She might know she shouldn't, but that won't necessarily stop her."


Obviously the knife needs to be moved. What does she mean "she knows she's not supposed to touch it?????" She's touching it!!!!! Obviously she doesn't know. Geeeeezzzzz!!!!

There is nothing wrong with what you said.

Pool safety is a huge issue. Children can fall into a pools and drown before anyone even notices they are gone!! What is wrong with her??? That is so completely unsafe!!!! Someone needs to say it. Atleast if something does happen you won't go through life wishing you had said something.


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## TigerTail (Dec 22, 2002)

the knife thing doesn't phase me, mine are on a magnet strip up not exactly in reach, but i'm not foolish enough to think little climbers couldn't get to them if they wanted. some things, like thismama said, i do trust them on.

NOW, on pools- babyproof fencing seems a stretch to insist on, but i stayed at a place with one of those useless alarms going off every ten seconds & i understand that situation.

what we did when my dd was a toddler & we lived at a home with an inground pool, was one of those locks you install at the top of a sliding door. that was unreachable even to my cupboard-climbing two yr old, & was the only way i would've moved in. what's that gonna cost, 5 bucks and ten minutes with a drill?

the pool safety thing you are right to be concerned about. i'd buy the lock, present it as a gift, & ask if they needed it installed, because screw the knives & anything else you've criticized her about, this is on a different level, & if she never speaks to you again, fine, but PLEEEEZE put this lock on, because you never don't ever want her to suffer the tragedy of a drowning. seriously, pools are like manna to little kids. i grew up with my aunt's pool across the street, & admittedly knew not to go near with no one around, but i remember it rankling me & can imagine if it was *my* pool it might've rankled me enough to try.


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## sophiesue2 (Jan 15, 2005)

Do you think it is possible that your sister thought you were saying something was "wrong" with her child? Like not that kids have poor impulse control, but that "her child" had poor impulse control? Maybe that is what upset her. Just a thought.


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## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

My hubby and I go round and round over these kinds of issues.

My mom was definitely the precursor of the crunchy mother: one of the original San Francisco hippies of the 1960s. She didn't believe in discipline in any form and we kids just did whatever we wanted. We grew up taking every kind of risk: swimming across wide, fast flowing rivers unsupervised at age 5, playing on top of the house roof, riding our bicycles in heavy traffic alone, staying out all night with no one knowing where we were, you name it. She thought it made us tough and independent, and it probably did.

Hubby was raised in a traditional catholic home, with everything that infers.

I tend to believe that baby understands when I explain dangers to her, and then uses her good judgment. For instance, I taught her from the begining that stairs are precarious and that you need to slide on your tummy, hold onto the wall, and otherwise be very careful. She's been able to independently negotiate the full staircase since about 15 months, even though she still can't reach the rails. Papa wanted to do elaborate baby gates and never let her on the stairs unsupervised, but I was able to show him that baby knew what she was doing.

Same with knives. When she sits on the counter she'll take the knives out of the holder and look them over (these are all butterknife level of sharp). Early on I spent alot of time showing her how and where the knives are sharp, and she understands that they can cut. So if she picks one up and is carefully handling it while I'm standing a foot away, I think that's just part of her learning about the reality of her environment. Papa just freaks: 'you're letting her hold a KNIFE??!!'







It's true that I wouldn't feel comfortable if she had uncontrolled access to them, for the same reason I don't want her to play with pens or sticks: falling while running.

And pools? I agree about gates on that one. The consequences are too predictable and too severe. The baby falling into a pool doesn't get cut or bruised up, they DROWN.


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## writermommy (Jan 29, 2005)

:

I totally agree that the pool is a much more serious worry than knives. When I lived in Florida, stories of children drowning in backyard pools was all too common on the evening news. In nearly every single case, the parents thought they were watching the kids or thought they had "taught" their child to stay away. It takes just minutes for a child to drown. It happens so much faster than people think and is much more common. The pool is such an attraction that kids can't help themselves, even when they have been taught pool safety. They can drown even when they are good swimmers. My dh was visiting his grandmother as a kid and was a great swimmer. He bumped his head and fell to the bottom of the pool. Luckily, a neighbor saw it happen and pulled him out, or he would be dead. I remember one story in FLorida where a child drowned at a party with a lot of adults present. The parents thought that with so much family around there would be plenty of supervision, but their small child died that day. This always stuck with me and is the reason I insisted on baby fencing around my pool. My kids lives aren't worth the risk.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

I was just pointing out that your sister was justified in feeling judged by you. Not everyone is into baby proofing. Some people teach thier children how to do stuff safely. I am always weirded out when people come over and panic about my stairs. My kids can navigate stairs before they can walk. we have never had a problem but were procative about stair saftey. We don't put saftey gates or saftey locks. we teach them instead to not go outside without a grown up and supervise until they have it. I am sure I look irresponsible to some people. I know it bugged one friend. She was constantly telling me how things could be safer. She dosn't come over any more because I got sick of hearing how I could be a better parent in her eyes. some parents prefer to teach thier children and they aren't parenting without thought. they have just chosen to do it different. you may not have meant to make her feel like a thoughtless dolt but that is exactly how I would feel someone thought of me if they were always telling me how I should be doing things and that I had done them wrong.

I know your intentions were good but really unless she asks it is none of your business how she chooses to bring up her children and what her standard of saftey vs. teaching is.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

Lilyka I agree there can be a way to help children safely handle household items (montessori encourages this) but I disagree on the pool issue. You don't hear much about "drownproofing" babies and kids anymore because it's misleading. There isn't a way to "teach" a toddler not to drown. It happens, so fast. The child isn't injured, they die. As someone else said, in most southern states (lots of private pools)this is the law. You can't leave kids around unfenced pools. It's the law just like carseats and gun locks are the law.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

I do have a two-year-old (25 months) who can be trusted not to touch or mess with many things. She could open a drawer and get to a knife if she really wanted to, but she knows the kitchen drawers are for grown-ups. She also has never flushed anything down the toilet, drawn all over the walls, gotten into the fridge and thrown everything around, etc. She just isn't the kind of toddler who whirlwinds through the house getting into everything, and she internalizes our few rules well. I don't mean to sound smug--I don't really know why she is this way, but she just is. It's her personality.

That said, as others have said, even I wouldn't rely on "She knows she isn't supposed to" with a pool, just because they are so dangerous in such an easily-lethal way. I actually know with 90% certainty that my DD will not go into the street from our yard. I taught her this at 18 months, just through repetition upon repetition, and I have not seen her set a pinky toe in that street for months. But I am always within an arm's reach if we are hanging out near the street. Even though I think the odds that she would run out are very slim, it's not worth the risk.

None of this helps the OP with her sitch, I know!--but I just thought I'd say that some 2-year-olds are not going to go for the knife; mine wouldn't.


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## TigerTail (Dec 22, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heartmama*
Lilyka I agree there can be a way to help children safely handle household items (montessori encourages this) but I disagree on the pool issue. You don't hear much about "drownproofing" babies and kids anymore because it's misleading. There isn't a way to "teach" a toddler not to drown. It happens, so fast. The child isn't injured, they die. As someone else said, in most southern states (lots of private pools)this is the law. You can't leave kids around unfenced pools. It's the law just like carseats and gun locks are the law.

yeah, heart, but it's not an unfenced pool (and god help us, in tn there actually still are some aboveground pools just sitting there- a couple of streets up from me is the house with the pool that killed a toddler when the babysitter looked away 'for just a minute'- and they still kept her on afterwards, could you die?); it's just unfenced between the house & the sliding glass door. the laws don't specify another fence entirely, as long as the yard is fenced itself (in places where there are such laws).

your point is still valid, i just wanted to clarify (and the sliding door lock up by the ceiling really is a cheap, easy, fast fix. telling someone to put in a fence is worlds different than requesting a simple lock. they might not even be aware that such a quick fix exists.)


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## mollyeilis (Mar 6, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Oceansummer*
Obviously the knife needs to be moved. What does she mean "she knows she's not supposed to touch it?????" She's touching it!!!!! Obviously she doesn't know. Geeeeezzzzz!!!!

Oh I'm SO GLAD someone finally said this! I was getting so worried that I was seeing things, with everyone saying a 3 year old CAN know things are off limits, etc. This child is SHOWING her mother that she does NOT know it. Therefore, something needs to change.

I finally got so tired of the drawers and the cabinets and such being rummaged around in (you'd be surprised at how far in a baby arm can reach in a "locked" cabinet), and how quickly Eamon figured out how to open the stinkin' baby locks....so I have a babygate up and he can't get into the kitchen.

Well, now he's building stairs and is working on vaulting over, but it did give me a few months of peace in the kitchen.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *sophiesue2*
Do you think it is possible that your sister thought you were saying something was "wrong" with her child? Like not that kids have poor impulse control, but that "her child" had poor impulse control? Maybe that is what upset her. Just a thought.

That's what I'd bet on.

Instead of hearing "3 year olds aren't really known for their impulse control", she's hearing "YOUR girl is wild, she's got no control, she's abnormal and crazy and it's all because of you you you!!!"

And then a bunch of stuff came up from your shared childhoods, and there's just no getting through THAT...at least that's the impression I get from my friends with sisters.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blessed*
My mom was definitely the precursor of the crunchy mother: one of the original San Francisco hippies of the 1960s. She didn't believe in discipline in any form and we kids just did whatever we wanted. We grew up taking every kind of risk: swimming across wide, fast flowing rivers unsupervised at age 5, playing on top of the house roof, riding our bicycles in heavy traffic alone, staying out all night with no one knowing where we were, you name it.

Made me giggle. My mom probably knew your mom.







But she didn't let us run wild, even though she moved out of SF shortly after I was born (cheaper in San Jose to live) and we lived fairly rurally. She always knew where I was, even the night of my senior prom when I had NO curfew (wily woman, she knew the other people I was going with WOULD have curfews...). Two hippies, different childraising styles.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I don't do babyproofing. I have a drawer latch for things that won't hurt dd, but that she can't resist and will make a huge mess with (eg. cake decorating sprinkles & icing). I also did a fridge latch for a little while, because she would take everything out while I was feeding the baby. But, I think there's a big difference between things she knows she's not allowed to have, such as kitchen knives, and things that she's allowed to have under some conditions, but not others, such as eggs. She has trouble grasping the conditions under which she can have eggs, and the conditions under which she can't. But, there are _no_ conditions under which she's allowed to have the kitchen knives, and it's been explained why. (She'll take out a butter knife, and assure me that she has a "not sharp" knife, so she does get it.) I'm quite confident that she won't get into the knives - they don't tempt her.

But, the OP's sister _said_ her dd was trying to get the knife, then she said her dd knew she was to do that. That makes no sense to me, and is totally self-contradictory. If my dd "knew" that she wasn't supposed to have the sharp knives, and was still trying to get them, I'd put a latch on the drawer.

If we had a pool, there would be _no_ way my kids (except for almost 13-year-old ds1, obviously) could get into the pool without an adult. That could mean a fence or a lock on the sliding door...but there's no way I'd leave it accessible to kids. Even if they know they're not supposed to go _in_ the pool, there's nothing stopping them from going to look and slipping.


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## AntoninBeGonin (Jun 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *paquerette*









Is it even legal to not have a fence around a pool? (


I would think she's breaking the law by not having a fence. If she won't put one up for her own kids safety, maybe you could remind her there is nothing to keep neighborhood kids from falling in.

~Nay


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## riversong (Aug 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mollyeilis*
I finally got so tired of the drawers and the cabinets and such being rummaged around in (you'd be surprised at how far in a baby arm can reach in

Have you tried Totloks? There's no way dd can open doors/drawers at all with these locks on. They have a magnetic piece that you have to rub over the lock to release it. As long as it's out of reach, the doors are un-openable. At least they work perfectly for us- maybe someone else's baby has broken one.

All this talk about pools has me really scared of my IL's pool. My MIL keeps saying that they're going to fence it in because it makes her nervous when the grandkids are over. They still haven't fenced it after nearly 5 years with grandkids, though. Sometimes I leave dd over there when I need to go somewhere. She can't open their doors on her own, but someone else might leave one open. Yikes! Should I stop leaving her there?


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## SneakyPie (Jan 13, 2002)

I sigh in longing reading posts by mothers whose children know what they're not to do, and then actually refrain from doing it.

My little guy knows several things are completely off limits. And he totally does not care. He loves to seek out and touch danger and chaos, and I'm OK w/some natural consequences, but we do babyproof because there are some things he'll do over and over and I can't handle constant breakage, injury, and mayhem. (We have some of all of these anyway, but I do try to stem the tide!) For him I really don't think it's just impulse control -- it's determination.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SneakyPie*
I sigh in longing reading posts by mothers whose children know what they're not to do, and then actually refrain from doing it.

My two year old knows what she is not supposed to do, and she refrains from doing it. At least until that one time where she decides it is now time to re-test the boundaries and actually do it. You never know when that time will be.

When she is afraid, she doesn't do things. She's afraid of hot things. My first daughter suffered a burn at a backyard BBQ at someone's house. The people grilling had actually wheeled the grill away, but she went over and saw it, and touched the outside of it. One of the dads saw her reaching for it and grabbed her away, but not before her hand connected and she got a burn which blistered. She was afraid of anything hot for a long time after that and I didn't worry about her around the stove or oven because she was always so cautious. Then on her 3rd birthday we were cooking. She wanted to help me, and she was stirring, but then started cowering from the heat of the stove and let me take over. We finished up, I turned off the burner, and I told her not to touch the stove as it was still hot. Oops, shouldn't have said that! I turned to put the pan in the sink and I heard a scream. Doggone if she didn't touch the burner again, just with a fingertip. Guess she just had to find out if it really *was* hot.

I had tot-loks galore with my first child, but nothing with this one. I have tried to teach her that things are sharp and she can hurt herself or others, and if she gets something I don't want her to have, I end up taking it away. Yesterday she was wielding a corkscrew and hit my 6 year old in the face near her eye, giving her a scratch on her cheek. I guess it is time for a some childproofing. In general I let her play with things, even knives or other sharp things, because she is exploring and playing and isn't going to go and poke her eye out which everyone around me seems to fear. But now it appears she might poke her sister's eye out, though, so I have to consider that now.

I don't know, I've been on both sides of the issue. I've had people tell me that I needed to do more childproofing, get gates for my stairs, etc. Their kids were up and down the stairs in my house, and hanging over the upstairs balcony. My kids learned how to navigate the stairs pretty well early on, not without a few rolls down the stairs, but they are pretty good. But it is tiring and stressful for to have to chase your child around constantly when they are in new situations, and I think these moms were experiencing this, especially since the one who said I needed gates did not have stairs in her house. A thing that one of my children might not even think to pick up in my house, another child might make a beeline for when she visits. I went to visit friends who ensured us they had "child-proofed." They had a lot of clutter, and they had straightened it up, but there were still piles of coins and other tiny things on many reachable surfaces, stacks of books and papers, animal poop on the floor. My toddler had a field day!


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## btlsmum (Feb 13, 2005)

I don't think you are wrong at all. Yes, kids can understand that they aren't supposed to do something or touch something, but impulse control is just not at the level it needs to be at age 3, or 4, or even 5. Heck, I know I shouldn't eat the chocolate but I still do it and I'm 34! LOL

And accidents can happen oh so quickly. It isn't even a matter of intent. It's a matter of slippery fingers or a child who takes a stumble with a knife in their hand. Ugh, I shudder at the thought.

Children are people, but they are not little adults and it's not fair to them to give them responsibilities that are beyond their maturity. (Such as trusting them not to harm themselves or someone else with something that you could just as easily put out of reach.)


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## peilover010202 (Nov 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *colleen95*
I am curious about this, peilover. I know all children are different, and it's virtually impossible to make a house truly, 100% safe for a child, but I just cannot imagine doing this with my 25 mo ds. I guess I just don't have many things (anything?) that is off limits. When my stove is hot, ds is not in the kitchen without me. I covered the outlets, whereas my sis told me that when her kids got mobile, she led them around to each outlet in the house, pointed it out, and and made some noise that scared them enough that they were crying by the end of it. So how do you know that your child won't touch something when you're not there? I am truly curious, not criticizing you. Did you use fear or reason to explain what's off limits? With either one, how do you know your ds has the impulse control? Is it possible to enforce this without using fear?

And a little more info about the pool, it is fenced, but the house is the inside the fence. I'd love to find a way to convince her to make this safer, but I'm at a loss. I tried sending info about pool safety along with sources of "clear" fencing (she doesn't want to spoil the view from her back windows by fencing between the house and pool.

Thanks again mamas and dads. I really appreciate your feedback.

Well, do I know for certain that my ds has the impulse control to NOT touch those things. I guess not. I do know that when the stove is on, etc - I am around - definitely not leaving him unsupervised. But, there have been many times when we're in the bathroom and I turn on the curling iron and ds will have a conversation with me "that's hot mama, Owen no touch, it dangerous, it will hurt me, only mama touch." And, with conversations like this coming from ds - I know it gets it.

I use reasoning with ds. I do for everything. I think you can tell that from the conversation above.

However, I do agree with you. I don't think that your sister should ever think that her children will not, under any circumstances, touch the knife (or whatever.) That's part of being a parent. I do think that my ds has learned that certain things are off limits. But, would I bet money on it - absolutely not.

And, with the whole fencing obstructing the view - well, I'm sad your sister is so selfish (sorry to sound mean). But, she really is choosing her children's safety over a "pretty" landscape.


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## mollyeilis (Mar 6, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *riversong*
Have you tried Totloks? There's no way dd can open doors/drawers at all with these locks on. They have a magnetic piece that you have to rub over the lock to release it. As long as it's out of reach, the doors are un-openable. At least they work perfectly for us- maybe someone else's baby has broken one.


I'd forgotten about those! We were even pricing them for awhile, and then pure economics took over...









So they do work for drawers as well?

Oh wow my hubby would NOT be happy to have to redo all his work; he's already had to do it twice, as the first time wasn't quite right.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Pools scare me...I grew up by the ocean...I knew it was dangerous to play in the beach, I had pretty good impulse control...yet every now and then it drew me in...it was so beautiful and tempting.

My older girls have varying degrees of impulse control...my almost 12 year old could never have been trusted, she's completely impulsive, there is no gap between the thought and the doing of it







although as she gets older there is a bit more gap.

My 2.5 year old is very self controlled...I watch things carefully but generally I know she won't get the knives. Maybe she will at 3 or 4 though. Kids change.

The thing is your sister's daughter has already proven her lack of impulse control.

But your sis knows her kids best and maybe she taught her from that experience.

it's tough...maybe a break will help

good luck


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Kids are different, so just because you (whoever) have a child who isn't trustworthy around knives doesn't mean that I do. My knives are on the countertop and neither child showed any interest in them until DS was about 5 and then I taught him to cut with a sharp paring knive. He still stays away from the big ones though. Now, I dont' just assume that they will stay away from them as toddlers, they just weren't in the kitchen without me. Now that they are a bit older, I don't worry about it too much because they know what they are doing and/or have demonstrated that they won't hurt themselves one way or another.

Which isn't to say that the child in the OP is the same, because she clearly does want to play with the knives. Thus they should be moved to a safer location or locked up.

But the pool, that's a different matter entirely. Its hard for a child a get to a knive "by accident", but entirely possible to fall into the pool. My 3 YO rode her trike into ours the other day while we were cleaning it (and thus had the childproof cover off). Luckily both DH and I were within seconds of her and she was water savy enough to kick off from the bike and swim to the surface. Very scary, but no harm done in the end. But without that cover on, they couldn't even play in the backyard because they could fall in while chasing a ball or whatever. For both safety and enjoyjment, the pool should be covered or fenced. Not to mention the liability issues if the pool really is open enough for other children to get to (I don't read the OP as clear one way or another).

Now, all of that said, the real issue here isn't about whether the knives or the pool are safe. Its about the fact that the sister feels judged and nagged by the OP. Whether that is valid or not is pretty much a moot point -- that is the way she says she feels. I think the only thing the OP can do is lay off for a bit. After a while, pick the really important points (pool safety) and let the others go (knives, discipline in general). Is that easy? Of course not. Would it be better if the sister would listen to safety advise? Of course, But sometimes we have to deal with the situation as it is, not how we want it to be. If you can help with the things that are life threatening, great. But the rest I think should be left alone.


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## shy (Feb 21, 2006)

Quote:

My two year old knows what she is not supposed to do, and she refrains from doing it. At least until that one time where she decides it is now time to re-test the boundaries and actually do it. You never know when that time will be.
Exactly same here. dh is more cautious, i tend to give my daughter more credit. but i listen to dh's cautions most of the time. i feel this way is fairly balanced. But I might not listen to someone else's cautions. It is so hard since on the one hand we've got people telling us that dd should not be breastfeeding, co-sleeping and what not, that we have to filter out, that we might close our minds to actual helpful advice people outside our innner circle may have to offer.


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## Attila the Honey (Mar 15, 2003)

We did babyproof some, but now that dd is 26 months old most of that babyproofing is gone. I can chop veggies and turn to stir a pot and trust dd not to touch the knife, but I also am not foolhardy and don't keep very dangerous things in easy access, either.

I remember a few years ago my SIL saying to her 2yo, "No, don't go in the kitchen without an adult, there are dangerous things in there!" and dh and I looked at each other like, 'huh?' because we thought that she was overreacting alot but now reading these posts I realize maybe we judged her harshly and some kids really do go for the dangerous stuff first chance they get! Eeks.

Like a previous poster, I can trust dd not to touch things she's afraid of, and I try to foster a very healthy respect for things like knives, the iron, etc. It's almost comical the way she will give the iron wiiiiidddeeee berth when she comes into my sewing room. Whether it's on or not, she never gets closer than 3ft to it.







She likes to stand on the chair and watch me chop veggies, but I can lay the knife down and she knows not to touch it because it's sharp and can cut her. She doesn't seem to have any interest in daredevil stuff, I guess.

HOWEVER, in the interest of full disclosure, she did brush her teeth with a tube of white watercolor paint so apparently there are things that I do need to keep out of her reach.







But clearly dangerous things, like knifes and irons and other things I've thought to talk to her about are usually OK to have around. It's the seemingly innocuous things that get us in trouble.


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## riversong (Aug 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mollyeilis*
I'd forgotten about those! We were even pricing them for awhile, and then pure economics took over...









So they do work for drawers as well?

Oh wow my hubby would NOT be happy to have to redo all his work; he's already had to do it twice, as the first time wasn't quite right.









I guess it depends on your drawers. I checked mine out and it looks like the Totloks might be too big for them. (We only have them on cabinet doors.) Maybe you could buy one package and see if they fit. They are expensive, though.


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