# Bothered by DH's overly-touchy/close uncle.



## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

And yet, I can't seem to open up my trap and say something.

We are in a tough living situation, we are too broke to move elsewhere. My husband and I are 19, approaching 20. We live in the basement of MILs house. She lives on the first floor with her DH, 15yo DD, and DH's Uncle (FILs brother). MIL's father and mother live upstairs from her, and MILs cousin and his wife and three children live in the attic apartment. Yes, very less than ideal.

We pay little to nothing for rent, have many amenities, have food availible to us almost every day (though not my ideal choice of food, but that's a story for another post).

As I said, DH's uncle lives upstairs. Background on him.. He's in his late 30s. He is an illegal immigrant, and I think that is one of the main reasons he lives with us (he has a small room next to the kitchen). Aside from that.. it is strange. He used to be an alcoholic and nearly died and has been sober for at least 5 years, probably more. He has only had one girlfriend that my DH knows of, and they split some years ago. Recently he has been really moody- just figured I'd add that. My MIL told me that "he needs a woman". We're not sure what's with his crankiness... if MIL doesn't put food on the table, if there is no hot water for a shower (which is often, what with 15 of us living in this house).. anything just gets him in a horribly bad mood and he'll outright ignore you or slam a door in your face- it is strange.

SO. DH's MIL's cousins (family in the attic) have three kids... 7yoDD, 4yoDS, 2yoDD. Said uncle is the 4yo's godfather but not close to him at all and appears to be really annoyed by him. He is very close to the 2yo girl AND my 2yo DD.

When DD was a baby (we moved in with them when she was 6mos old) he always wanted to hold her, etc. I thought it was okay, I felt that DHs family was deprived of my daughter (long story). Some things that strike me as odd..

-For awhile he would state that "He would be the godfather for both of our daughters and he would pay for their big 3yo birthday party, and it would be in a banquet hall and DD would have a beautiful dress and do a waltz and blah blah blah" until DH & I clued them in on the fact that we weren't baptizing and we don't like huge crazy parties for children, and that it wouldn't be happening.

-On one occasion he took DD, then 18mos, (without permission!) on a walk, at 8pm at night, down the street to 7-11. I had NO CLUE where she was, and ran around asking everyone. It was a family barbeque and I had stepped inside to the bathroom for a moment- learned my lesson the hard way, shame on me for being irresponsible.

-At DDs first birthday party, while she was opening up a special gift from DH & I, he ran to the table and plopped this bright pink and purple glittery trike down. Totally interrupting DD and frightening her a bit- kind of pushed us aside like "look at MY gift!"

-From the time DD was little, he'd always take her into his room, like I said, next to the kitchen. Door open, very small room (7x7 at the biggest, I'd think) and would sit with her at his computer desk and play with random trinkets and things). I always sat at the kitchen table, honestly a foot from the door, chatting with them and watching everything. I find it inappropriate and should really have asked that they sit at the kitchen table with me.

-DD has for a very long time been his wallpaper on his computer screen.

-He's really touchy feely with DD and above mentioned 2yo girl- not sure how much is too much, I grew up with just my mother and grandmother and we were very fond of kisses and hugs, so I have trouble seeing the "norm" but it does make me a bit uncomfy, and I try to deter DD from the situation when I see it happening. Example.. He'll whisk DD onto his lap and give a loud "smooch smooch smooch on her cheeks or in her hair" and say "how you doing mama, how are you, etc." Not even sure if this is cultural.. but no one else does it in the family. He does it to above mentioned 2yo as well but her mom doesn't bat an eye.

-Something that really freaked me out- he held my 2mo old in his arms for about an hour, she was sleeping. I was sitting next to him on the couch and I would inch closer or lean my head in to see the baby and he would inch away.

-Just today, I was playing with said 2yo and DD with wooden board puzzles on the floor. He comes out of his room, walks over to us and plops down on his knees, kind of sliding in front of me (between DD & I) and does the smooching thing. I didnt see it coming so I couldn't whisk her away.

-He is strangely amused by DD. One night, after dinner, DD was sitting across the table and in the middle of MIL and FIL having a conversation, uncle randomly firmly says "NO!" to DD, a few times. (All of us know that when someone says "no", she gets VERY sentimental and cries as if heartbroken). DD got sentimental and began crying and he starts laughing! I took DD downstairs and we cuddled for a bit. Poor thing. I discussed this with MIL but she seemed nonchalant about it.

SO.. you all probably get my point. I know I need to step up and stop this- I feel uncomfortable, they're MY children, and I have 100% say in what happens. We rely so much on MIL and have to and thank goodness she is here.. any helpful advice on how to discuss this situation with her? She loves her grandchildren and I hope that I can make a point to help her see where I'm coming from, it is just that they think we are strange. Our parenting is the exact opposite of theirs- we're crunchy, they're mainstream, we're not religious and they are VERY. We're just "weird" to them. How the heck can I discuss this with MIL and help her understand? Better yet, how can I put a stop to this without disrupting DHs family?

I feel like an idiot for having posted this-especially because I have been so irresponsible. Tomorrow MIL and I will be alone and I hope to discuss some things with her.. but I really need some guidance.

Thanks.


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## Sharon RN (Sep 6, 2006)

Couldn't read and not post.







s to you, mama!

Well, it's early, and I'm tired (my baby is sick), so I'll just say that if it makes you feel uncomfortable, then honor your instincts. If YOU feel it's not right, then it's not.

And I totally get creepy vibes from what you described. He "needs a woman." His overt interest in the little girls.

It's hard to assert yourself when you are in a dependent situation. What about your DH? You didn't mention how he feels about all this. If you feel uneasy rocking the boat, and this is his family, can he step up and talk to his mom and/or uncle?

I urge you to protect your dd. What is the worst that will happen if you put your foot down and not let the uncle near her? Would you be kicked out? I don't know. I think your DH needs to get involved. Now.

Good luck, Windy, I hope you both feel safe soon.


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

There are definitely some yellow flags there. Bordering on red.







I would be creeped out too. Is it possible he has some mental issues?

I have a young male relative who I love very much but who started showing some iffy behaviors when we moved into the same house. At this point I don't think there's any evil intent, just general cluelessness and "trying too hard". But some things are inappropriate nonetheless and I nipped them in the bud.

Since I can't control this person and there is nothing specific to accuse him of, I started by teaching my children what's appropriate and what's not. Since we are not in our own home, but living with others, streaking is not appropriate.







It's fun, it's funny, but it's not appropriate in most situations, including a multifamily home.
They are to close the door when changing or pottying and to holler loudly if anyone intrudes.

And most importantly, they learn from the get-go that if someone wants them to keep a secret from their parents, it's a sure sign that they need to come directly to us and tell us everything. And if there's an overt threat made, that's an even stronger sign to tell everything, immediately.

We had an issue with them going to this person's room too. Nothing inappropriate happened but it is a room in a quiet corner, can't be seen into unless you're standing directly outside the door, etc. I nixed that one firmly. Not by accusing him but by letting the whole family know that for safety and respect reasons, other's bedrooms are out of bounds for my children. I have a baby monitor in the kid's room so I can hear if someone enters or is hanging around their door. Since there's is an out-of-the-way room, they don't hang out up there, it's just for sleeping anyway.

I think you will need to start being a lot more watchful (your post indicates you know this), and _kindly but firmly_ speak up anytime something is giving your creepy vibes. IE: he's got your baby and is inching away "I'm glad you enjoy the baby so much, but I'm going to go put her down in her own bed now." He tries to slip off with her: "I'm sorry, she needs to stay with us." He takes her to his room: "Hey, I have decided that I need to teach my children early on that we stay out of other people's rooms." If he actively resists you at that point or tries to secretly circumvent you, I'd say you know you have a serious problem on your hands, either mental illness or bad intent. If he's just unaware (as my relative is), he'll back off when he gets a strong signal that what he's doing is socially inappropriate and unacceptable to you. I really wouldn't accuse him directly of anything to your MIL. But I would ask her for her feelings on whether his behavior is appropriate. Or express your discomfort as a personal thing and not an accusation. That way she doesn't start out defensive, and may feel freer to agree with you and help you.


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## Ldavis24 (Feb 19, 2009)

as someone who has lived with her Inlaws and can totally empathize with that discomfort in general (my MIL did not like me at the time, amazing what having a baby can do for a relationship!)!!

Honestly, since you have posted all this stuff that concerns you I think you that it is an issue. To me, my first guy instinct would be to keep this guy completely away from my kids. Period. Obviously not that realistic if you have to stay in your current living situation?

Is there any possibility that your family could move from your In-Laws? That in itself would solve the majority of the problems. Easier said than done I know! We are in fact moving back to my MIL's for 5 months but it is just her and my DH and me and the baby.

Whether his intentions are good or not, I find the actions freaky and anyone that tries to get between me and my own child I have a serious problem with. That is regardless of the sex of the person and what their possible intent might be.

have you discussed this at length with your DH? I know you guys are young (my DH and I only just turned 24) but is there any way at all you could move out into a better living situation? There are a variety of assistance programs for housing (although it takes a lot of time I'm told)....

Good luck but I think you already know there is something to be concerned about. As a PP said trust your instincts they rarely steer you wrong!


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## FullMetalMom (Aug 27, 2008)

To anyone who has read Protecting the Gift, what you have described is the classic behavior of a child molester. Not only are warning bells going off in your head, but this man is paying way too much attention to your dd. The touchy feely behavior and taking your dd out of your presence is a HUGE red flag. Trust your instincts that this is not normal. I would in no uncertain terms make it very clear to this uncle that your dd is not to be alone with him and that his behavior makes you very uncomfortable and you think it is inappropriate.

I don't know that you need to have a discussion with MIL, so much as just tell her where you stand on the situation. Be prepared for her to be in complete denial, as well as the rest of the family.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

This is not feeling right to me. I'm getting goosebumps just thinking about your sweet dd.

Please, please change your living situation. Separate from this man and his "grooming" of your children.


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## mama2annabelle (Dec 29, 2002)

I haven't had a chance to read the other replies....just wanted to encourage you to _*trust your instincts*_!!


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## ~Sarah~ (Aug 28, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FullMetalMom* 
To anyone who has read Protecting the Gift, what you have described is the classic behavior of a child molester. Not only are warning bells going off in your head, but this man is paying way too much attention to your dd. The touchy feely behavior and taking your dd out of your presence is a HUGE red flag. Trust your instincts that this is not normal. I would in no uncertain terms make it very clear to this uncle that your dd is not to be alone with him and that his behavior makes you very uncomfortable and you think it is inappropriate.

I don't know that you need to have a discussion with MIL, so much as just tell her where you stand on the situation. Be prepared for her to be in complete denial, as well as the rest of the family.

DING DING DING DING!!!!! PLEASE go to the library TODAY and get this book (10 libraries if you have to) and and don't stop reading it until you're at least done with the chapters on sexual abuse.


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## Areia (Mar 5, 2009)

I agree with the others, trust your instincts and limit your contact with him.

I come from an immigrant family, very touchy feely, very "the children belong to all of us" sort of mentality and some of what you described made me uncomfortable too.

I think Cappuccinosmom had great advice and just wanted to say that your MIL may be more open to you than you think. My parents' generation often think we have strange notions about parenting, but they usually keep that to themselves and go along with what we ask, esp. if, as in your case, their children have married into different cultures. If your situation came up in my family, someone would nicely tell the uncle to give you guys some space. Sort of "we know you don't mean any harm, but they do things differently so we have to respect that" type of conversation.


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## mommariffic (Mar 18, 2009)

He sounds mentally ill -- I'd monitor all "play" and explain to your MIL what makes you uncomfortable. To me at least he doesn't sound like a molester but someone who's challenged?


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## MCR (Nov 20, 2001)

I'd read Protecting the gift and be more firm. I am more disturbed by the inserting himself in between you and your Dd, trying to separate you, and taking her in his room. When your stomach tells you No, go with it.
He's blowing off your concerns and making you feel they aren't valid, making you look like you are over reacting, then when things finally go bad and he's harming the girls, no one will give it a second look and won't even listen or believe you.
He's grooming the whole family.


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## earthgirl (Feb 6, 2006)

Just another voice asking you to please trust your instincts. Your post gave me the creeps and I'm so sorry you have to deal with this. My first vote would be for you to get out of that living situation. If that's not possible then you definitely need to make sure he is NEVER alone with your kids for any reason. And you are just going to have to start speaking up when he's doing something that makes you uncomfortable. I know that is so much easier said than done, but it seems pretty necessary in this case.


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## churndash (Mar 25, 2009)

While I agree that a mother should trust her instincts, accusing someone of being a child molester is a very, very, very serious thing and I would never make such a serious and potentially devastating accusation based on an internet post.

Nor would I automatically assume that anyone who gave my toddler a gift or held my infant was a child molester.

You have every right to set whatever boundaries you like for your child, regardless of what material benefits you are receiving from this family. No amount of free rent or food makes it okay for them to do things with your child that make you uncomfortable.

But I'm not going to get on board the "he must be a child molester" train.

And yes, I _have_ read "The Gift".


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## Ldavis24 (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *churndash* 
While I agree that a mother should trust her instincts, accusing someone of being a child molester is a very, very, very serious thing and I would never make such a serious and potentially devastating accusation based on an internet post.

Nor would I automatically assume that anyone who gave my toddler a gift or held my infant was a child molester.

You have every right to set whatever boundaries you like for your child, regardless of what material benefits you are receiving from this family. No amount of free rent or food makes it okay for them to do things with your child that make you uncomfortable.

But I'm not going to get on board the "he must be a child molester" train.

And yes, I _have_ read "The Gift".


She doesn't have to accuse him of anything, but she can distance her children from him as much as possible, thats for sure!

It is also not just the giving of a gift but the pattern of behavior that she describes that has most people on edge who have read it I think.


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## ChristyMarie (May 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommariffic* 
He sounds mentally ill -- I'd monitor all "play" and explain to your MIL what makes you uncomfortable. To me at least he doesn't sound like a molester but someone who's challenged?


I was also wondering if perhaps he doesn't have a sense of common boundaries and is just truly lonely. However, you still need to listen to your insticts and put a stop to the uncomfortable behavior, regardless of the intent behind the behavior.


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## greeny (Apr 27, 2007)

Your gut is telling you something, and you should definitely listen.

I personally would never let dh's uncle be alone with dd. Ever. And I know it's way easier said than done, but i'd think about ways you could get out of that living situation.


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## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

Thank you, thank you,thank you, everyone.

We cannot realistically remove ourselves from this living situation. BUT, I can try and ensure that I keep both of my girls downstairs in our apartment as much as possible, or outside, or just in general away from him, you know?

I disagree about the people's rooms thing only because I wouldn't want to take that from her.. she often goes into 15yo SILs room (door open) to play with hair clips, etc. and be one of "the girls", which she very much enjoys. She also (more importantly) sometimes goes into MILs room to wind down for a few minutes (myself of MIL with her), she's suspected of having SPD and gets sensory overload quite rapidly.. this is typical when we have guests over and she just needs a moment. BUT, I will never allow her in his room again. If the situation were different with her I'd change the no-rooms rule in an instant.

It is hard.. just because we're dependent on everyone. And MIL would never kick us out.. so I'm going to start being firm. Thanks again.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greeny* 
Your gut is telling you something, and you should definitely listen.

I personally would never let dh's uncle be alone with dd. Ever. And I know it's way easier said than done, but i'd think about ways you could get out of that living situation.




















LISTEN TO YOUR GUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That "mama-bear instinct" has EVOLVED in humans over time for a reason!!! It's part of what allowed us to survive as a species. Listen to it.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

PS. If you can't find Protecting the Gift at the library, I'll mail you a copy. I feel that strongly about it. PM me your address, if you'd like.

I just read your title and my brain was screaming PROTECTING THE GIFT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## churndash (Mar 25, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ldavis24* 
She doesn't have to accuse him of anything, but she can distance her children from him as much as possible, thats for sure!

It is also not just the giving of a gift but the pattern of behavior that she describes that has most people on edge who have read it I think.

People in this thread are accusing him.

It's a very serious thing, to call someone a child molester or a potential child molester. "Mama bear instinct" isn't an excuse for making unsupported, potentially devastating accusations.

We can protect our children without calling every male who likes children a child molester.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *churndash* 
People in this thread are accusing him.

It's a very serious thing, to call someone a child molester or a potential child molester. "Mama bear instinct" isn't an excuse for making unsupported, potentially devastating accusations.

We can protect our children without calling every male who likes children a child molester.

Here's the thing... I don't kiss my own children on the lips. I kiss their faces, like a cheek or forehead. Lip kissing is for lovers.

And not handing a baby back when asked? That totally violates my sense of propriety.

Maybe he's not a child molester... but I don't think any of that is okay. I would be scheming hard to change the living situation.


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## mommariffic (Mar 18, 2009)

Here's the thing... I don't kiss my own children on the lips. I kiss their faces, like a cheek or forehead. Lip kissing is for lovers.

Um, I kiss my DD on the lips and all my family does?


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## ~Sarah~ (Aug 28, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *churndash* 
People in this thread are accusing him.

It's a very serious thing, to call someone a child molester or a potential child molester. "Mama bear instinct" isn't an excuse for making unsupported, potentially devastating accusations.

We can protect our children without calling every male who likes children a child molester.

I get your point, and it is a very serious thing. I just don't think that agreeing the behavior sounds predatory is in the same realm as knowing this man personally and calling him a molester to someone who knows him. Her original post is basically asking "does this sound like predatory behavior that I'm right to be wary of" and we're answering with our opinions "yes." I haven't yet seen anyone say "that man is for sure a molester."


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## Jane (May 15, 2002)

Eh, you overreact, you piss off DH's uncle. Big deal. Do it.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *philomom* 
Here's the thing... I don't kiss my own children on the lips. I kiss their faces, like a cheek or forehead. Lip kissing is for lovers.

Maybe in your house. I kiss my babies/children on the lips all the time.

Quote:

And not handing a baby back when asked? That totally violates my sense of propriety.
Where in the OP's post did she say he didn't hand the baby back when asked to do so?

Quote:

Maybe he's not a child molester... but I don't think any of that is okay. I would be scheming hard to change the living situation.
I think the OP should trust her gut. From her post, I didn't get "child molester", though. I got "boundary issues" and "lonely". Since I'm not there, I have no idea what the vibe he's giving off is like, and I, personally, pay more attention to that than to descriptions of behaviour. She should totally go with her gut feeling. It's important to teach her kids some guidelines, in any case.


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

None of them scream out "dangerous" to me, but put together they are building a story. He could have problems, he could perhaps be wishing he was a daddy, he could be sincerely just bonding with her. It could be cultural, it could be that he has poor skills, it could be that he has no respect for the mom. Or it could be that he is grooming them and her daughter is the next victim.

One thing is definite here: mama has some instincts screaming at her. I say, no matter what the situation is, go with those instincts.

I have felt _nothing_ when so and so held DD or wanted to play with her or give her presents. But then I have felt every bone in my body scream out just when another person ruffled her hair. I trust those instincts. C'mon, we have a biological imperative. Our primal parts are only interested in protecting our offspring. You need to put aside all the other static such as social etiquette and culture. Pay attention to your instincts. Don't let someone else walk over your mother/child bond. That's a test, even if he isn't a molester.

I also second and third reading "protecting the gift"


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## Mountaingirl79 (Jul 12, 2008)

In my opinion, as their mother, if you are feeling uncomfortable you have EVERY right to pick your kid up, and out of his arms and say " Okay, time for mommy time!" " Time to change your diaper!" or whatever you need to say.

His behavior raises big red flags for me. Be assertive, mama. ((hugs))

ETA: I think in one of the above posts the OP said he would inch away from her, when she got closer to look at him holding the baby......I mean...........whoa....that means give me my baby back, to me...


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mountaingirl79* 
ETA: I think in one of the above posts the OP said he would inch away from her, when she got closer to look at him holding the baby......I mean...........whoa....that means give me my baby back, to me...

I'm not sure what I'd think, honestly. I'd find it very strange if a mom was "inching" closer to me while I was holding her baby. If she wanted the baby back, I'd expect her to ask, and I'd probably be wondering what on earth was going on.


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## Mountaingirl79 (Jul 12, 2008)

I honestly wouldn't mind as much about the person inching away from me if it was a mother I knew, and was friends with or if there weren't any other weird things going on....

I have an uncle with who "sitting on his lap" was a normal thing for everyone else involved, except for him. ...if you know what I mean.... So, maybe that is why this raises a flag for me. Plus the other stuff OP mentioned....it just gets me motivated to say something, ykwim?

( I wanted to add that I was not a victim of my uncle's "come sit in my lap" scheme because my mom wouldn't let it happen. She always made up an excuse, I was very attached to my mom. It came out when I was a teen that some of my cousins had been molested by him. So... I just felt motivated to tell that story, for whatever reason. Stay firm in your convictions!)

**HUGS****


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## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

Thank you all so much! I'm proud of myself, when he got home from work, DD and I were in MILs living room. He marched right over to her "HI BEAUTIFUL!!" and I jumped in between them two (she was at her easel) and began coloring with her. Situation deterred.


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## weliveintheforest (Sep 3, 2005)

Do you talk to him much? I think that might help. For example, if he is trying to talk to your dd you could ask him about his day or something to get him talking to you instead. Or when he is holding the baby, if you want to see if the baby is sleeping, maybe just ask instead of trying to see her, so he can't try to hide it from you. Does that make sense? I guess what I am trying to describe is a way to get yourself more involved in your daughter's interactions with him, in a way that he can't ignore.


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## ChristyMarie (May 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *weliveintheforest* 
Do you talk to him much? I think that might help. For example, if he is trying to talk to your dd you could ask him about his day or something to get him talking to you instead. Or when he is holding the baby, if you want to see if the baby is sleeping, maybe just ask instead of trying to see her, so he can't try to hide it from you. Does that make sense? I guess what I am trying to describe is a way to get yourself more involved in your daughter's interactions with him, in a way that he can't ignore.

This is a very good idea. If he is just clueless, you'll be guiding him towards proper behavior. If he is up to something else, you are putting him on notice that you SEE him and what he is doing.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommariffic* 
Here's the thing... I don't kiss my own children on the lips. I kiss their faces, like a cheek or forehead. *Lip kissing is for lovers.*

Um, I kiss my DD on the lips and all my family does?

Really? We kiss on the lips too. Oh my gosh...sometimes we kiss friends on the lips too in greeting! AAACK!


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

I would probably say something to him. "I know you mean well and you love my daughter but I'm feeling kind of uncomfortable. If my daughter learns to be overly familiar with adult men she will be at risk to predators outside the family as well. I would really appreciate it if you toned down the physical affection." It's the kind of thing where you can try to get him 'on your side' to protect your daughter. It's manipulative, but maybe effective.

Often if you label behavior loudly and clearly folks stop just because they feel put on the spot. You don't have to call him a child molester to say that if your daughter is made vulnerable to adult men she could be a victim and you want to protect her.

I don't think all adult men are molesters. I do think that every child should be a little overprotected rather than a little underprotected.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rightkindofme* 
I would probably say something to him. "I know you mean well and you love my daughter but I'm feeling kind of uncomfortable. *If my daughter learns to be overly familiar with adult men she will be at risk to predators outside the family as well*. I would really appreciate it if you toned down the physical affection."


Honestly that seems to be a bit over the top and also worded that way it would include her dad as well as he is most certainly an adult man.


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TCMoulton* 
Honestly that seems to be a bit over the top and also worded that way it would include her dad as well as he is most certainly an adult man.

That is an attitude that is really common and understood by most people. You can think it is over the top but in my family of origin adult men are *never* left alone with female children. Not even the fathers. It's a cultural thing and one that many people agree with.

I don't ascribe to it, but that doesn't mean I won't exploit it for my daughters benefit.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rightkindofme* 
That is an attitude that is really common and understood by most people. You can think it is over the top but *in my family of origin adult men are *never* left alone with female children. Not even the fathers.* It's a cultural thing and one that many people agree with.

I don't ascribe to it, but that doesn't mean I won't exploit it for my daughters benefit.

I cannot imagine never leaving my husband alone with his daughters. How is that an attitude that is healthy for young girls to learn, that even their fathers cannot be trusted.


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## sophiesgrandma (Jun 22, 2006)

It's great that you deterred the situation by stepping in between him and your daughter but how about having an explicit talk with him and telling him exactly what you want and don't want. do this with your husband present. If there is a language problem have someone interpret. This is your child and you get to say what happens to her. He seems a bit off to me. He got pleasure out of making your daughter cry. That is cruel and sadistic.
Please keep him away from her and also keep an eye on his interactions with the other 2 year old since her mother seems oblivious.


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## THBVsMommy (Mar 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I think the OP should trust her gut. From her post, I didn't get "child molester", though. I got "boundary issues" and "lonely". Since I'm not there, I have no idea what the vibe he's giving off is like, and I, personally, pay more attention to that than to descriptions of behaviour. She should totally go with her gut feeling. It's important to teach her kids some guidelines, in any case.

I agree.


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TCMoulton* 
I cannot imagine never leaving my husband alone with his daughters. How is that an attitude that is healthy for young girls to learn, that even their fathers cannot be trusted.

Well, given that I was assaulted by my father and it happened to a number of other girls in my family it's just kind of life. You think it isn't fair to be suspicious of all men. Ok. From where my family is sitting it isn't fair to little girls to put them at risk because even men you trust do awful things sometimes. I can't really say either side is wrong.









That said--I trust my husband. Partially because my husband knows I am very serious when I say I would rather our kid go live with her godmother because I am in prison for killing him if he ever touched our daughter. Dead.Serious. It's not an attitude most people condone, but most people didn't have my childhood and my husband understands why I am so fierce on this topic. I don't think he would have married me if he had even borderline questionable intentions.


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## Trinitty (Jul 15, 2004)

Reading this thread is reminding me why I put _Protecting the Gift_ down, finding it a sensationalistic piece of paranoid trash. Typical modern-day dramatization of pain and crime, ala Oprah and Law and Order SVU. Sick.

It is terrible that men are all seen as potential rapists/molesters until repeatedly proven otherwise.

I _totally_ understand the desperate need we have to protect our children, I get it. DH and I don't let DD (2yrs) out of our sight, and I can't yet imagine when we will. I just find the tone of some of these threads to be very anti-male. Not leaving children with their OWN father? If you are worried about _that_ happening - then you should not be married to this man.

OP: Based on this one post, I think your brother-in-law sounds like he is mentally slow. Not aware of boundaries. An Oddball. This in and of itself could be a problem, but, it could just be that it makes him childish in his need for attention from your daughter. He likes her, he loves her, he wants to be around her and be special to her. Like an eight year old.

All this being said - taking an infant to the corner store in the evening without telling the Mom is odd to me. THAT bugged me. I agree with your sense that you should monitor them at all times. Don't leave them alone together... not because he is a child molester, but because he's odd, unpredictable and that could lead to all kinds of potential problems, including the worst. Redirect his constant physical affection.

MOST IMPORTANTLY:

*What is your plan?*

You are 19, married with two children?
When are you moving out on you own?
Does your husband work?
Do you both have your high school diplomas?
Are you taking post secondary training? Trades?
Where will you be in two years? Four years? Ten years? Retirement?

The key here is for your family to end the dependency on extended family and to be on your own. This will give you privacy and security. You can write your own ticket and have some freedom.

If you have your own home, you don't need to constantly fret about your relatives. This solves the problem, long term.

Trin.


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## ~Sarah~ (Aug 28, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rightkindofme* 
That is an attitude that is really common and understood by most people. You can think it is over the top but in my family of origin adult men are *never* left alone with female children. Not even the fathers. It's a cultural thing and one that many people agree with.

That's really interesting---may I ask what culture this is? I'd love to learn more about the origins of this.


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## ~Sarah~ (Aug 28, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Trinitty* 
Reading this thread is reminding me why I put _Protecting the Gift_ down, finding it a sensationalistic piece of paranoid trash. Typical modern-day dramatization of pain and crime, ala Oprah and Law and Order SVU. Sick.

Wow, I found it to be completely the opposite. I felt it helped to put most men in the clear by teaching you how to distinguish *actual* warning signs from those behaviors that are not, in and of themselves, a problem. It made me feel I have tools to feel comfortable with DD's uncles being with her, because I can see what behavior is and, more importantly, *isn't* there. I felt more safe and at peace with the world after finishing it.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Sarah~* 
Wow, I found it to be completely the opposite. I felt it helped to put most men in the clear by teaching you how to distinguish *actual* warning signs from those behaviors that are not, in and of themselves, a problem. It made me feel I have tools to feel comfortable with DD's uncles being with her, because I can see what behavior is and, more importantly, *isn't* there. I felt more safe and at peace with the world after finishing it.

Yes, I'm with you on this. The book rests on my shelf.


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## Trinitty (Jul 15, 2004)

I am sorry. I was unclear in my post.

I meant to make those two separate points.

1) That _Protecting the Gift_ is a sensationalistic book that dramatizes crime for the entertainment of the reader, ala Oprah and Law and Order SVU.

AND, separately

2) That there is a certain school of thought which presumes all men to be potential rapists and child molesters until proven otherwise.

I did not mean to infer that the BOOK said that. I disliked it and quit reading it for other reasons.

Just to be sure: _Protecting the Gift_ is the book that opens with the narrative describing the mother and daughter walking from the movie theatre and being pursued by a bad guy, right?

The mother saves the day by stabbing the bad guy's eyeballs out with her ignition key? If this is the same book everyone is raving about, I am at a loss. I don't get it. I think it was written to sell books.

The message: be street smart, don't trust strangers, do lots of background checks, keep your children close and arm yourself if needed.... is pretty simple. I just said it in a sentence.

Please correct me if this is a different book, or, if it miraculously changes in its approach, tone and content.

Trin.


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Sarah~* 
That's really interesting---may I ask what culture this is? I'd love to learn more about the origins of this.

Well, I grew up poor and rural and white. I know that is kind of broad. The specific kind of ******* my family is seems to be pretty common because I have talked to a lot of people with similar upbringings. There seems to be some flavor of heavily religious mixed in there. (My family background is Mennonite though I wasn't raised in that church.) Like many Euro-mutts it's hard to define my culture easily.


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Trinitty* 
2) That there is a certain school of thought which presumes all men to be potential rapists and child molesters until proven otherwise.

You know what, I understand that you think that men are given a bad wrap. In many cases I agree with you. I think that putting up blanket rules at all times is a bad idea. Would I point blank lie to a specific person about having a blanket rule? Sure. If I am uncomfortable with someones behavior I don't need any excuse or justification for limiting their contact with my kid no matter what anyone else thinks. The OP is uncomfortable. That's enough for me. Does that mean all men are perps? No. But as someone who was the victim of severe sexual assault and rape as a child I can tell you that every flippin person who knew my perpetrators said, "Oh but they would never." I would rather be overprotective than let any other girl go through what I went through.

(I know that earlier in this thread I said it was standard for my family to not allow girls alone with any man. It was. My mother didn't have control of the fact that the courts said my father got unsupervised visitation. And the neighbors took full advantage of me being a latchkey kid.)


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## Trinitty (Jul 15, 2004)

That is astounding and appalling. I am so sory that happened to you. I am thankful every day that I had a safe and happy home as a child.

Trin.


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Trinitty* 
That is astounding and appalling. I am so sory that happened to you. I am thankful every day that I had a safe and happy home as a child.

Trin.

I'm really really glad you did too. Sincerely. I wish that for every little girl. With great gentleness may I request that you not act like some of are over the top in our responses? Many of us have very good reasons.


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Trinitty* 
I am sorry. I was unclear in my post.

I meant to make those two separate points.

1) That _Protecting the Gift_ is a sensationalistic book that dramatizes crime for the entertainment of the reader, ala Oprah and Law and Order SVU.

AND, separately

2) That there is a certain school of thought which presumes all men to be potential rapists and child molesters until proven otherwise.

I did not mean to infer that the BOOK said that. I disliked it and quit reading it for other reasons.

Just to be sure: _Protecting the Gift_ is the book that opens with the narrative describing the mother and daughter walking from the movie theatre and being pursued by a bad guy, right?

The mother saves the day by stabbing the bad guy's eyeballs out with her ignition key? If this is the same book everyone is raving about, I am at a loss. I don't get it. I think it was written to sell books.

The message: be street smart, don't trust strangers, do lots of background checks, keep your children close and arm yourself if needed.... is pretty simple. I just said it in a sentence.

Please correct me if this is a different book, or, if it miraculously changes in its approach, tone and content.

Trin.

Wow, I've never met anyone w/ such a viewpoint about that book. How interesting! I've always recommended it to help calm parents down and get them into a rational mode in regards to childhood scares. The author dedicates a lot of the book to pulling out the numbers and trying to show people that random kidnapping is rare and nothing to freak out about. And he brilliantly delves into the tangible yet often ignored aspects of grooming, social boundaries and how to connect with your child on a sincere level. I honestly wish every parent would read his book.

Are you sure you're not baiting on here?


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## Trinitty (Jul 15, 2004)

Also with gentleness,

I do know that horrible things happen to children every day and that some parents do not provide a safe and happy home.... I also know that this, thankfully, is not typical and that cases like yours are not in the majority.

I am almost always speaking generally. _Generally_, I find many folk are over the top with thinking that men are dangerous and potentially evil.

I know that exceptional situations do exist and will do my best to help those who are in them... but when I am commenting generally, I do not have the terrible exceptions in mind.

With respect,

Trin.


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Trinitty* 
Also with gentleness,

I do know that horrible things happen to children every day and that some parents do not provide a safe and happy home.... I also know that this, thankfully, is not typical and that cases like yours are not in the majority.

I am almost always speaking generally. _Generally_, I find many folk are over the top with thinking that men are dangerous and potentially evil.

I know that exceptional situations do exist and will do my best to help those who are in them... but when I am commenting generally, I do not have the terrible exceptions in mind.

With respect,

Trin.


I'm curious then...do you find the statistics to be falsely bloated? Or do you think they are correct, but just as many women out there are also predators, only not reported?

I've always wondered if the abuse statistics are actually much, much worse than what we are led to believe because female predators might not be caught or prosecuted at the same rate as males. Oh, I know, it reminds me of the domestic abuse situation. The statistics show that the majority of cases includes a male battering a female. But in recent years people have been fighting for awareness of males who are battered by females.


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## Trinitty (Jul 15, 2004)

Wow, I really hope I am not baiting. I have been here for years and I haven't done so, as far as I know. I honestly wasn't trying to start something.

So, are you saying that this book changes in tone and approach? It changes after the first chapter? Because after that first chapter with the narrative of edge-of-your-seat dramatization, I was totally repulsed.

IF it changes after the first chapter, then, I will take another look at it... but from my first attempt, it was a book I did not want to continue reading.

PM me on this if you wish... I think I have derailed this thread enough. Sorry OP!

Trin.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

OP, I think if you have become increasingly uncomfortable then it is time to step in in some way. It is not accusatory to simply state you are not comfortable with certain things. I think my best advice for you is try to do it right when the behaviour is happening, and calmly. Like "I don't want my child in your room; it's not appropriate as far as I'm concerned."

Quote:


Originally Posted by *churndash* 
People in this thread are accusing him.

It's a very serious thing, to call someone a child molester or a potential child molester. "Mama bear instinct" isn't an excuse for making unsupported, potentially devastating accusations.

We can protect our children without calling every male who likes children a child molester.

True. But I didn't see anyone saying to the OP CALL THE POLICE or anything like that. When our instincts are going off, it's okay to remove our children or establish boundaries. They can be re-examined later.

It's not fair to our vulnerable kids to worry more about feelings being hurt or manners than their safety. He's a grown up; if his feelings are hurt he can manage that.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Trinitty* 
Wow, I really hope I am not baiting. I have been here for years and I haven't done so, as far as I know. I honestly wasn't trying to start something.

So, are you saying that this book changes in tone and approach? It changes after the first chapter? Because after that first chapter with the narrative of edge-of-your-seat dramatization, I was totally repulsed.

IF it changes after the first chapter, then, I will take another look at it... but from my first attempt, it was a book I did not want to continue reading.

PM me on this if you wish... I think I have derailed this thread enough. Sorry OP!

Trin.

It does. He talks about that incident and then he says "so we're all worried about stranger danger...the chances are it will never happen to you, but let's talk about it so we can get it out of the way." And then he goes on to say a lot of other things.

I think it might help to take it in context, which is that he wrote _The Gift of Fear_ first, which talks a lot about trusting your instincts. The example with the mom is kind of about that. If you keep reading I think he goes on to say "stranger danger is totally rare, but I'm talking about it because you people keep worrying about it. Here's some more on that. Now let's move on to the real issues."


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *claddaghmom* 
I'm curious then...do you find the statistics to be falsely bloated? Or do you think they are correct, but just as many women out there are also predators, only not reported?

I've always wondered if the abuse statistics are actually much, much worse than what we are led to believe because female predators might not be caught or prosecuted at the same rate as males. Oh, I know, it reminds me of the domestic abuse situation. The statistics show that the majority of cases includes a male battering a female. But in recent years people have been fighting for awareness of males who are battered by females.

For a portion of the population of male abusers (and devients), I wonder how many of them were abused by men and women. Look at how many times when a 15 year old male is molested by a female teacher it is an attaboy.

I am going to agree and disagree with Trinitty about Protecting the gift. I am going totally agree with her about assuming men are sex preditor. I think the meda and sensationalization cases have not helped the situation.


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marsupialmom* 
For a portion of the population of male abusers (and devients), I wonder how many of them were abused by men and women. Look at how many times when a 15 year old male is molested by a female teacher it is an attaboy.

I am going to agree and disagree with Trinitty about Protecting the gift. I am going totally agree with her about assuming men are sex preditor. I think the meda and sensationalization cases have not helped the situation.









DH and I just talked about this b/c we watched that crazy South Park Episode where the teacher falls in love w/ the kindergarten student. When the other characters in the show learned about it (e.g. the police) they showed support for it. Imagine if it had been a male teacher/female student!


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Trinitty* 
Wow, I really hope I am not baiting. I have been here for years and I haven't done so, as far as I know. I honestly wasn't trying to start something.

So, are you saying that this book changes in tone and approach? It changes after the first chapter? Because after that first chapter with the narrative of edge-of-your-seat dramatization, I was totally repulsed.

IF it changes after the first chapter, then, I will take another look at it... but from my first attempt, it was a book I did not want to continue reading.

PM me on this if you wish... I think I have derailed this thread enough. Sorry OP!

Trin.

Sorry, Trin. I think I added too much into your words. But no, the book does not follow along the typical cultural lines of this issue. I think the story in the first chapter actually serves to show how we can avoid situations like that by simply being aware of ourselves and our surroundings and listening to our instincts. I didn't see it as him trying to convince us that danger lurks around the corner.

It was probably a carefully thought out choice to include that story in the beginning, too, because I think a lot of people do buy into the fear factor, so perhaps he was hoping it would attract the very people who needed to learn more about the issue.

At any rate, I still highly recommend that the OP read his books b/c she is in a situation where more information-and more confidence-could be very valuable to her. From one post online we don't know what's going on. At the very least, her story shows she isn't receiving a lot of respect and she is unsure how to maintain social expectations while still being the parent. A lot of Becker's writing on grooming and manipulation could really help the OP _even if there is no molester_. Just b/c the ultimate goal isn't to molest, doesn't mean someone is being respectful and honest in a situation. I've "caught" some grooming behavior before when the sitaution had nothing to do with molestation or children. It's just socially sneaky method to get another person to do what you want.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Well, there's nothing specific in your posts that really disturbs me. I honestly don't see anything he's done as inappropriate in a family, particularly an extended family that lives in the same home, except taking her to the store without your permission. And, although I'd be furious if someone took my toddler from a family party without telling anyone, I think that could be a cutural thing. Kids don't seem to be watched as closely here in Mexico (I'm not sure if the uncle is from a Latin culture, but it sounded like it - I know "mama" is common nick name for little girls in Latin America) as in the US, and there's sort of an assumption that with all the family around, someone is bound to be watching them. As well, fawning over little girls is common place. Everytime we go anywhere, grown men stop and talk to my two youngest kids (a girl and long haired boy assumed to be a girl) and tell them how beautiful they are and talk about their beautiful hair and eyes, etc. It sometimes makes me uncomfortable, but I know that it's just the way it is here, and no harm is meant by it. People do give off "vibes," but sometimes it's harder to read when you're dealing cross culturally. However, you're the mom and you get to make decisions about your daughter. What does your husband think about it? Have you talked to him about it? Maybe having your husband have a chat with him about giving your dd space would be helpful.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WindyCityMom* 
We cannot realistically remove ourselves from this living situation. BUT, I can try and ensure that I keep both of my girls downstairs in our apartment as much as possible, or outside, or just in general away from him, you know?

...

It is hard.. just because we're dependent on everyone. And MIL would never kick us out.. so I'm going to start being firm. Thanks again.

Have you thought about what you would do if your MIL suddenly was unable to accommodate you in her home for whatever reason? If she wasn't there for you to rely on, you'd figure something else out, you know? It might be a good idea to at least discuss a plan with your DH in case you guys need it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Trinitty* 
The key here is for your family to end the dependency on extended family and to be on your own. This will give you privacy and security. You can write your own ticket and have some freedom.

If you have your own home, you don't need to constantly fret about your relatives. This solves the problem, long term.

I agree with Trinitty here. Do you have specific plans for financial independence that you're working towards? Not relying on other people financially is a great way to have total control over your life and your children's surroundings/interactions.

As for the uncle's behavior, what you've described in this thread wouldn't raise any red flags for me -- many of our extended family members act similarly with my kids, and I act that way with my nieces and nephews. But if you're getting an icky feeling in your gut with this guy, it's good you're not ignoring it and are being more proactive about closely monitoring any interaction with the uncle.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Sarah~* 
Wow, I found it to be completely the opposite. I felt it helped to put most men in the clear by teaching you how to distinguish *actual* warning signs from those behaviors that are not, in and of themselves, a problem. It made me feel I have tools to feel comfortable with DD's uncles being with her, because I can see what behavior is and, more importantly, *isn't* there. I felt more safe and at peace with the world after finishing it.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

This is what I got from Protecting the Gift: Trust your gut. Those _*instincts*_ have evolved over time as a species-survival tool.

So that's why the OP's FEELINGS/INSTINCTS matter more than the specific details of why she feels that way, imho.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *claddaghmom* 
. I've "caught" some grooming behavior before when the sitaution had nothing to do with molestation or children. It's just socially sneaky method to get another person to do what you want.

yeah, like my mom saying "hug your uncle for the gift." Uh, no, we don't trade hugs for gifts unless we want to. No one should demand that of us. Pissed my mom off, but oh well.


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## rayo de sol (Sep 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WindyCityMom* 
uncle randomly firmly says "NO!" to DD, a few times. (All of us know that when someone says "no", she gets VERY sentimental and cries as if heartbroken). DD got sentimental and began crying and he starts laughing!

That's horrible and cruel!

And it's inappropriate that he takes her into his room.

He sounds creepy. Trust your instincts. Don't ever leave your daughter alone with him.

I wouldn't let him touch your daughter so much either. It is very easy for molesters to surreptitiously gain sexual gratification from a child while other adults are right there in the same room.

I think you should tell him straight out all the things he does that you don't like. She's your child, and you have a right to put a stop to ways he treats her that make you uncomfortable.


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## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Trinitty* 
MOST IMPORTANTLY:

*What is your plan?*

You are 19, married with two children?
When are you moving out on you own?
Does your husband work?
Do you both have your high school diplomas?
Are you taking post secondary training? Trades?
Where will you be in two years? Four years? Ten years? Retirement?


This is going hugely OT but... My husband does work, we both have our high school diplomas and I have a bit of college under my belt. We currently have some amount of debt as well. I was working after my first pregnancy, was put on bedrest at the beginning of my second, went back to work during my second pregnancy and left when I got into my third trimester. When DD was home with great grandma (only person available to babysit) I worried a great deal. Just the other day, the other 2yr old mentioned in this post almost burned the house down while under her care. She's in her mid 50s and it isn't age, just pure irresponsiblity. We need to take things in stride. Clear our debt. Keep ourselves healthy. Earn to support our family. Schooling, and eventually moving on up in this world. It is honestly very, very difficult. My husband was in a very major car accident last fall and we took a major financial hit. MIL also got laid off that same month. We're waiting for our taxes to pay off most of our bills... we are in so much debt. When we moved into the basement apartment here, we had to buy a refrigerator and a bed (tried to work around it but we ended up having to do this). DH works for a company that sells appliances, so we got a huge discount, but still, it took its toll. When he was in his accident, he wasn't working, and though he wasn't the driver at fault, he wasn't immediately compensated. Actually, we're still waiting on that. DH also recently had to purchase a car (very old car, very cheap, but still took a toll) to get himself to and from work. Our old one was a total loss. So.. it seems as if it is a never ending cycle. We have each cut down our spending. If I want something, I sell something else and use that money to get it. We don't make a ton of money.. it's hard. Once our bills are paid, we can start saving for school. My husband would like to become a police officer, which, here in chicago, requires schooling. We would greatly like for me to homeschool our children, which is our plan.

Eclipse- yes, he is from Mexico, so perhaps that is something to do with it (the cultural difference that you describe).

Limabean- If MIL were unable to take us in, we do have other family members (DHs family) that would be able to house us (for example, his aunt rents apartments in two buildings). I have no family (mother passed away when I was 16, vindictive father kicked me out when I was 18, on my birthday, after he had finished collecting my mother's death benifits) except for a stepfather who smokes heavily and lives with his mother and older brother in another tiny basement apartment.

When I mentioned this to my DH, he told me "My uncle just likes kids. He was the same way when so and so was born. It is just how he is. He's not going to have kids of his own, he's single and probably past his prime". Still makes me uncomfortable.

Right now DH is fixing uncle's laptop, which has a virus (DH is very good with computers, and this is also a side job for him







). Uncle's background wallpaper is a photo of DD. I am resisting the temptation of crossing the privacy line and seeing what other photos of DD he has on there (I've never seen this picture before). I know it is wrong and I probably won't do it. Still... I feel uneasy about it. Is it overstepping our boundaries to ask him to change the wallpaper? I think so.. I don't know. It just strikes me as strange.


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## MaterPrimaePuellae (Oct 30, 2007)

I've been following this thread, and thought I'd finally post.

It bothers me a little that these threads always turn into "I think it's unfair that all men are considered child molesters!"







It's not really about "all other men," it's about this one guy, and IMO, his behavior sounds inappropriate. That may be because of poor boundaries, cultural issues, mental health issues, or perversion; maybe it's a mixture of those issues.

If it were my daughter, I would feel VERY uncomfortable, and I try to make it a point to honor my instincts even when I don't totally understand their root cause. I had an great-uncle who, as far as I know, never molested or even thought about molesting anyone, but he had some mental health issues from PTSD. I found it disturbing to be around him (tickling, "getting my toes," etc-- I just hated it all). I was a young child (like, 3-5, I guess?), and I don't think it's a child's job to "help" adults feel better about themselves. MY parents were definitely not as vigilent as I now think they should have been.

Maybe your uncle really is just an awkward guy who likes kids more than the average person







The way he shows that affection/interest is creepy to me, and your DD should not be made to feel uncomfortable for the sake of his gratification (even if that gratification is totally above-board).

My parents and in-laws adore my daughter, and I have never once had a negative thought/concern about any of them. However, if they were behaving in the way your describe, I would put a stop to it if only for my own comfort. It makes me very uncomfortable to see people positively fawning over infants and children-- they're _people_, not puppies or toys, and the fact that they cannot truly consent or resist being smothered with kisses and hugs or whatever makes me very careful about respecting their boundaries.

Here's what I would do:

I would not let him hold DD at all. When my DD was 2, she would occasionally ask to snuggle with me or her grandmothers, but other than that, she did not like to be "held" like an infant would. If he picked her up (or my infant!) I would just go take her out of his arms. I don't like it when other people hold my babies







. They're not toys.

I would continue avoiding any sort of situation in which DD could be alone with him.

I would talk to MIL and express my concerns-- NOT "I think Uncle X is a pervert," but 'I think Uncle X is not respecting DD's boundaries, and I want her to feel that other people respect her boundaries..." or whatever language your MIL would appreciate/understand. I would do this because you need to know where she stands in order to know whether you're wishes will be honored if your leave your child with her in the uncle's presence. Honestly, I think her "he needs a woman" comment sounds a little iffy. That's no excuse for any sort of behavior, IMO, whatever she was talking about at the time.

Here's one which I am sure will be unpopular, but it's the first thing I would do: I would be checking his computer-- the pictures he has of your DD and his internet browsing history-- while you have that computer in your possession. IMO, if you know he has pictures of your DD that you did not give him, it's your business to know what they are.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WindyCityMom* 
Limabean- If MIL were unable to take us in, we do have other family members (DHs family) that would be able to house us (for example, his aunt rents apartments in two buildings). I have no family (mother passed away when I was 16, vindictive father kicked me out when I was 18, on my birthday, after he had finished collecting my mother's death benifits) except for a stepfather who smokes heavily and lives with his mother and older brother in another tiny basement apartment.









That must have been really hard -- I can't even imagine. It sounds like you love your DD dearly and will do whatever it takes to protect her.


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## Trinitty (Jul 15, 2004)

Quote:

Here's one which I am sure will be unpopular, but it's the first thing I would do: I would be checking his computer-- the pictures he has of your DD and his internet browsing history-- while you have that computer in your possession. IMO, if you know he has pictures of your DD that you did not give him, it's your business to know what they are.
That is not a bad idea. Make sure you don't delve into personal correspondence, but, a look at his photo file and browsing history could do some good. The sites he has visited could have given his computer the virus in the first place, so, I think that is legit.

Trin.

PS:

Windy: My goodness. What a steep grade you are climbing. It sounds like you are focussing on your goals, and your DH's idea of becoming a police officer is very admirable. Keep with it.

I am sure you are already doing all you can, but, have you ever read _The Complete Tightwad Gazette_? It has some excellent every day ways of saving every penny. It has really helped me manage money.

And, it's not off topic.







Getting out and on your own would be a great release for you, I am sure. You would not need to worry about odd people at close quarters.

Trin.


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## tanyam926 (May 25, 2005)

Op, you have gotten some good advice here. If you came here looking for an okay to trust your instincts, you have definately gotten it from the majority.

Sometimes we already know the answer inside but need some reassureance from others in order to trust ourselves.

I feel that child sexual abuse has been so persistent over the course of human history bc it can only function in secrecy and w/doubt. I KNOW that there are family members/friends/members of the community who suspect, feel, or just know what is going on w/these children and let other things get in the way of protecting those children.

Dh's brother is a really nice guy and has never done anything that screams innapropriate w/my boys but I just get this feeling that I can't describe when I'm around him and I heed that warning. I do not ever let him be alone w/my boys and we have limited contact w/him in general. I don't have any reason to suspect anything but my instincts are enough. That doesn't mean I have to accuse him of anything, and no one is suggesting that the op do that either.

The men get a bad rap argument is an interesting point, but the facts are that men are much more likely (just look at the stats) to be sexual abusers of any kind. Those are just the facts. I feel like knowing the most information makes me better able to make decisions so that I don't live in fear.

Good luck, op!


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## rayo de sol (Sep 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WindyCityMom* 
When I mentioned this to my DH, he told me "My uncle just likes kids. He was the same way when so and so was born. It is just how he is. He's not going to have kids of his own, he's single and probably past his prime". Still makes me uncomfortable.

So, it sounds like your DH is not taking your concerns about his uncle very seriously? Am I understanding this correctly?

Has your DH seen how his uncle acts around DD?

It seems like he should be taking your concerns more seriously. Why would he want to brush aside a possible threat to his daughter's safety so casually?

Can you get your DH to read Protecting the Gift: Keeping Children and Teenagers Safe (and Parents Sane)?


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## 4myfinn (Dec 29, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WindyCityMom* 
When I mentioned this to my DH, he told me "My uncle just likes kids. He was the same way when so and so was born. It is just how he is. He's not going to have kids of his own, he's single and probably past his prime". Still makes me uncomfortable.

If this is true, why does he not seem as preoccupied with the other children in the house? You mention that he seems "annoyed" with his own godson and you don't mention the 7yo girl at all. Was he equally fascinated by those two when they were younger?

I've been following the thread too, and I think you are right to be suspicious. I know you are dealing with many financial difficulties, but I would get DD away from this guy. You can try to protect her, but can you really be on guard in your own living space 24-7? And if you could, what an exhausting way to live!


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## rayo de sol (Sep 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Trinitty* 
I do know that horrible things happen to children every day and that some parents do not provide a safe and happy home.... *I also know that this, thankfully, is not typical* and that cases like yours are not in the majority.

I am almost always speaking generally. _Generally_, I find many folk are over the top with thinking that men are dangerous and potentially evil.

I know that exceptional situations do exist and will do my best to help those who are in them... but when I am commenting generally, I do not have the *terrible exceptions* in mind.

Actually, sexual assault of children _is_ *typical*. The _majority_ of children are not sexually assaulted, but a significant portion _are_. The sexual assault of children is *terrible*, but it's not an "exception."

Quote:

Children

15% of sexual assault and rape victims are under age 12.3

* 29% are age 12-17.
** 44% are under age 18.3*
* 80% are under age 30.3
* 12-34 are the highest risk years.
* Girls ages 16-19 are 4 times more likely than the general population to be victims of rape, attempted rape, or sexual assault.

93% of juvenile sexual assault victims know their attacker.6

* 34.2% of attackers were family members.
* 58.7% were acquaintances.
* Only 7% of the perpetrators were strangers to the victim.
http://www.rainn.org/statistics

Sexual assault in general is an everyday occurence:

Quote:

Every 2 minutes, someone in the U.S. is sexually assaulted.

Here's the math. According to the U.S. Department of Justice's National Crime Victimization Survey -- the country's largest and most reliable crime study -- there were 248,300 sexual assaults in 2007 (the most recent data available). (*These figures do not include victims 12 years old or younger.*)

There are 525,600 minutes in a non-leap year. That makes 31,536,000 seconds/year. So, 31,536,000 divided by 248,300 comes out to 1 sexual assault every 127 seconds, or about 1 every 2 minutes.


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## rayo de sol (Sep 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *churndash* 
It's a very serious thing, to call someone a child molester or a potential child molester. "Mama bear instinct" isn't an excuse for making unsupported, potentially devastating accusations.

We can protect our children without calling every male who likes children a child molester.

How is the discussion in this thread (trying to help a Mama protect her daughter), going to "devastate" the uncle being discussed???? Please, I would really like to know.

Also, _who_ is calling "every male" a child molester? Not anyone on this thread that I've seen.


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## Trinitty (Jul 15, 2004)

The majority of children are not sexually assaulted.

Therefore:

Sexual assault of children is _not typical_ and it _is_ an exception to the rule... the rule being the majority of children who are not sexually assaulted.

It is not typical and it is exceptional.

That does not mean that it does not happen, or that we should not be constantly vigilant. However, it is important to remember that it is not typical.

I have dealt with a sexual predator as a teenager, I know how dangerous these situations can be, and I know that adults in charge can be myopic. We must fight against this with all that we have.

But, for our peace of mind, we must also remember that this does not happen to the majority of children.

Trin.


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## rayo de sol (Sep 28, 2006)

Trinitty, your previous post made it sounds like child sexual abuse is some rare event that is very unusual. My point is that child sexual abuse happens _all the time_ to many children.

According the the Centers for Disease Control, 24% of women and 16% of men were victims of sexual abuse when they were children.

And keep in mind that child sexual abuse is one of the most under-reported crimes. Many children never tell anyone what happened to them--or if they do tell they aren't believed or nothing is done about it.


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## rayo de sol (Sep 28, 2006)

"Exceptional" means unusual, by the way. And child sexual abuse is NOT unusual at all.


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## ~Sarah~ (Aug 28, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Trinitty* 
The majority of children are not sexually assaulted.

Therefore:

Sexual assault of children is _not typical_ and it _is_ an exception to the rule... the rule being the majority of children who are not sexually assaulted.

It is not typical and it is exceptional.

I think this is an interesting point in light of these forums:

Our children are far, far, far more likely to be sexually abused than they are to sustain an injury of any sort from vaccinations. However, there is an entire forum dedicated to vaccinations (and not vaccinating), but not even a sub-forum dedicated to preventing and discussing childhood sexual abuse. I'm not coming down on this forum in any way, I'm just saying it's an interesting aspect of our culture that we are so much less likely to discuss what is perhaps the biggest external threat to our childrens' safety (and one that can many times be prevented easily).


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## rayo de sol (Sep 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Trinitty* 
It is terrible that men are all seen as potential rapists/molesters until repeatedly proven otherwise.

Where have you seen this on this thread?

Obviously not all men are sexual predators, but since 96% of sex offenders are male (according to the Bureau of Justice), it's only logical that men would be suspected more often than women. And in the case being discussed in this thread, I think this uncle warrants the OP's suspicion.


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## rayo de sol (Sep 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Sarah~* 
Our children are far, far, far more likely to be sexually abused than they are to sustain an injury of any sort from vaccinations. However, there is an entire forum dedicated to vaccinations (and not vaccinating), but not even a sub-forum dedicated to preventing and discussing childhood sexual abuse

That is such a good point!

Let's have a sub-forum for discussing how to prevent child sexual abuse!


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rayo de sol* 
Where have you seen this on this thread?

Obviously not all men are sexual predators, but since 96% of sex offenders are male (according to the Bureau of Justice), it's only logical that men would be suspected more often than women. And in the case being discussed in this thread, I think this uncle warrants the OP's suspicion.

We also know this statistic isn't accurate because people do not talk about sex abuse by women.

Many of the abuse boys suffer gets unreported because it makes them a "man" or doesn't hurt them more. Girls that are abused by women, suffer in silences. If helped they still have issues "relating".

That statistic is mostly 10 years old. It has been only in the past 10 years they were not collecting data on women abusers. http://www.canadiancrc.com/Female_Se...awareness.aspx (I can't find current data in the US)

You need to remember how boys are taught to be hyper sexual and "appriciate" any sexual teaching they get. We also need to remember that 2/3's of the prission population was abused sexually. Many of them if you asked if they were abused, they say no. If you ask more specific question the story is different.

I do worry that we are creating a generation of men (people) afraid to help out and be involved -- and allowing to much room for other types of preditor.

I do believe the OP should trust her instincts, but also question them. Are they off because of cultural difference. If it is his gender, how would you respond if it was a female relative? How would you handle it?

I think it is foolish to use an old statistic, build a fear and only protect your child part way.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...o-1767688.html


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## rayo de sol (Sep 28, 2006)

Marsupialmom, I never said boys aren't sexually abused. They are. According to the CDC, 16% of boys are sexually abused.

The large majority of people who sexually abuse boys are men.

There are, of course, female sexual offenders too. But most sex offenders are male.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rayo de sol* 
According the the Centers for Disease Control, 24% of women and 16% of men were victims of sexual abuse when they were children.

Hm... I'd be really interested to see where you pulled this stat from. The only think I can find on their website says that OF PEOPLE WHO WERE RAPED, 24% were originally raped as children. That doesn't mean that 24% of children were abused, but that of those who were, 24% were younger than 12. Very different base number.


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## rayo de sol (Sep 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evan&Anna's_Mom* 
Hm... I'd be really interested to see where you pulled this stat from. The only think I can find on their website says that OF PEOPLE WHO WERE RAPED, 24% were originally raped as children. That doesn't mean that 24% of children were abused, but that of those who were, 24% were younger than 12. Very different base number.

This is what I'm referencing--something completely different from what you're talking about above.

http://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/ace/prevalence.htm


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## newbiemama09 (Dec 17, 2009)

i work with people who run this website, and you need to look at it. it gives a LOT of information- warning signs, what to watch out for, talking to you kid about sexual issues, everything. check it out!

www.stopitnow.com


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## rayo de sol (Sep 28, 2006)

stopitnow.com is a very helpful site. From that site, they mention this study:

Quote:

*88%* of cases of sexual abuse are never reported to the authorities.

(Hanson, R.F., Resnick, H.S., Saunders, B.E., Kilpatrick. D. G., and Best, C. Factors related to the reporting of childhood sexual assault. Child Abuse and Neglect, 1999, 23,559-569).
And also this study:

Quote:

As many as *one in three girls* and *one in seven boys* will be sexually abused at some point in their childhood.

Briere, J., Eliot, D.M. Prevalence and Psychological Sequence of Self-Reported Childhood Physical and Sexual Abuse in General Population: Child Abuse and Neglect, 2003, 27 10.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Trinitty* 
But, for our peace of mind, we must also remember that this does not happen to the majority of children.

As one of the children that it did happen to, I think that having too much peace of mind is foolish.

When I was in group therapy for women who had been molested as children, most of us as memories of "pre-molestation" events with the perp., such as being asked to wash his back or getting back rubs. Things that weren't molestation but broke down boundaries about what is appropriate and inappropriate.

I wouldn't want my child near the uncle -- not in his room, not on his lap, etc.

*Windy City Mom*, both you and your husband sound hard working and strong. I'm sorry that so many things have gone wrong, but I really believe that you will get past all this stuff. Good luck with everything!!! You are a great mom, you will set up appropriate boundaries and keep your little one safe, and some day you'll look back on this phase of your life with deep pride for all that you guys have over come together!


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## *Erin* (Mar 18, 2002)

honor your instincts.
my knee jerk easy solution?
anonymous phone call to INS.
good luck mama, sounds like a really bad situation to be in. good luck to you, and hugs.


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rayo de sol* 
Marsupialmom, I never said boys aren't sexually abused. They are. According to the CDC, 16% of boys are sexually abused.

The large majority of people who sexually abuse boys are men.

There are, of course, female sexual offenders too. But most sex offenders are male.

But not as nearly as many as you stated. HOW many women abusers out their is unknown. It hasn't been talked about. This automatic assumtion isn't firmly based in reality. It is a false since of security. "I am going to put up my guard aganist becuse most abusers are men." You wouldn't say becuase 75% of the population isn't abuse I don't have to worry. But you aren't worring much because newer statistics are showing 25% of abusers in Canada/US are women.

I think I am guilty of posting wrong link for newer statistic...I am sorry. I will find the proper link I had earlier. It might be after work, I work until 10 pm


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## Rosedotcom (Apr 22, 2003)

If so many people have child molester thoughts about the Uncle why is so many people's advice to just avoid the Uncle? Redirect, talk to him, make excuses?

I do think you should follow your instinct and if you feel like he could harm your daughter you need to move out. You aren't going to be able to watch her every second.

There really isn't a lot you can do while living there. Your MIL probably isn't going to throw him out. If he is making you uncomfortable but you don't feel he is threat then have your DH sit down and have a man to man. More than one if need be.

If DH's Aunt has an apartment building why don't you go live there? I hear you when you say money is really tight but if you really think uncle is dangerous you need to leave because you can't protect your daughter fully while living there.


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## craft_media_hero (May 15, 2009)

Well, I know you've already gotten a ton of responses on your OP, but I just wanted to say that you have mama instincts for a reason, and when it comes to creepy uncles or anyone else who simply gives you a "weird vibe" concerning your children, you should definitely not ignore your inner voice.

It sounds like he is never going to move out of the house. You and your hubs will have to find another place---I know that sounds simple and can be very difficult. Can you qualify for Section 8 housing? At least get on a list? Would a move to a lower cost of living area be possible? Since you are both so young, it's not like you're stuck in your careers or something. Maybe co-housing with another young family? Splitting rent on a two bedroom apartment?

My point is that this guy is not going away, and your extended family seems to have no issues at all with his behavior. If there's even the slightest chance that he might at some time cross the line into "inappropriate touching" with your daughter, then this is basically a life or death situation and you need to get out ASAP. I don't think that talking to your MIL or even the uncle is going to change anything. Honestly, if you feel your child may be in danger, then even staying in a shelter is better than living with someone who you feel may be a potential predator.

Once that line is crossed, there is no going back, and your child will carry the scars of even one single event for the rest of her life. Free/cheap rent isn't worth taking a chance that he could "fondle" her.

If you wouldn't trust him bathing her or otherwise being exposed to her genitals (ie a diaper change), then he should not even be in the same room with her, much less holding her on his lap or taking her for "private" walks.

I think your instincts are solid on this. You have listed a lot of red flags, and I'm sure there are other weird events that you didn't even post. I would take extreme measures ASAP, and in the meantime do not let her out of your sight and minimize contact with him as much as possible--like if he's around, you and the LOs are not; you are in your room or outside or whatever.

I hope this situation resolves itself for your family very soon!


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## Ldavis24 (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evan&Anna's_Mom* 
Hm... I'd be really interested to see where you pulled this stat from. The only think I can find on their website says that OF PEOPLE WHO WERE RAPED, 24% were originally raped as children. That doesn't mean that 24% of children were abused, but that of those who were, 24% were younger than 12. Very different base number.

In my Ped's office there is a huge poster on the door that says 1 in 5 children will be sexually abused at some point in their life and that it generally is a family member doing it...This is pretty common knowledge although the numbers may vary from study to study.


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## rayo de sol (Sep 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marsupialmom* 
But not as nearly as many as you stated.

Uh, yes, as many as I stated. We can never know _for sure_ exactly what percentage of child molesters are male vs. female because it's such an under-reported crime. 88% of sexual abuse is never reported to the authorities.

Until it's reported more, we'll have to go with the Bureau of Justice statistics, which state that *96% of sex offenders are male*--in the United States. Perhaps Canada has a different situation, I don't really know.


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rayo de sol* 
That is such a good point!

Let's have a sub-forum for discussing how to prevent child sexual abuse!


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I'm not sure what I'd think, honestly. I'd find it very strange if a mom was "inching" closer to me while I was holding her baby. If she wanted the baby back, I'd expect her to ask, and I'd probably be wondering what on earth was going on.

I have to agree with Storm Bride. Also, I find the "no kissing on the lips" thing pretty weird.

And frankly, I think Protecting The Gift is extremely overrated on MDC.

Just be honest and tell BIL when any of his behaviour makes you uncomfortable, and explain why. Multi-generational households have their own unique difficulties that are best handled by honest communication. None of us are mind readers, so I assume BIL is not either. Don't jump to conclusions when you haven't even tried to discuss an issue.


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## rayo de sol (Sep 28, 2006)

*WindyCityMom*, your instincts are very good because a lot of what you described seems to be in line with what the stopitnow.com site calls *Signs That an Adult May Be At-Risk to Harm a Child*:

Quote:

* Misses or ignores social cues about others' personal or sexual limits and boundariesi?
* Often has a "special" child friend, maybe a different one from year to year?
* Spends most of his/her spare time with children and shows little interest in spending time with someone their own age?
* Encourages silence and secrets in children?
More signs to watch for:

Quote:

* Makes others uncomfortable by ignoring social, emotional or physical boundariesi or limits?
* Refuses to let a child set any of his or her own limits? Uses teasing or belittling language to keep a child from setting a limit?
* Insists on hugging, touching, kissing, tickling, wrestling with or holding a child even when the child does not want this physical contact or attention?
* Frequently walks in on children/teens in the bathroom?


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## Mulvah (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
Maybe in your house. I kiss my babies/children on the lips all the time....

I think the OP should trust her gut. From her post, I didn't get "child molester", though. I got "boundary issues" and "lonely". Since I'm not there, I have no idea what the vibe he's giving off is like, and I, personally, pay more attention to that than to descriptions of behaviour. She should totally go with her gut feeling. It's important to teach her kids some guidelines, in any case.











Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I'm not sure what I'd think, honestly. I'd find it very strange if a mom was "inching" closer to me while I was holding her baby. If she wanted the baby back, I'd expect her to ask, and I'd probably be wondering what on earth was going on.

I completely agree.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *TCMoulton* 
I cannot imagine never leaving my husband alone with his daughters. How is that an attitude that is healthy for young girls to learn, that even their fathers cannot be trusted.

It isn't healthy.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WindyCityMom* 
...When I mentioned this to my DH, he told me "My uncle just likes kids. He was the same way when so and so was born. It is just how he is. He's not going to have kids of his own, he's single and probably past his prime". Still makes me uncomfortable....

This really sounds to be the case from what you've written. If you feel uncomfortable, then you really need to make a plan to leave. I don't know how to say this, but if this person is a predator, just avoiding him is probably not going to be enough.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rayo de sol* 
Uh, yes, as many as I stated. We can never know _for sure_ exactly what percentage of child molesters are male vs. female because it's such an under-reported crime. 88% of sexual abuse is never reported to the authorities.

Until it's reported more, we'll have to go with the Bureau of Justice statistics, which state that *96% of sex offenders are male*--in the United States. Perhaps Canada has a different situation, I don't really know.

There is a big difference between saying that most (reported) abuse is perpetrated by men and saying most men are abusers. Given that most abusers will abuse more than one person, even if you accept the 20% of children are abused statistic, it doesn't follow that for each abused child there is an abusive man.


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## rayo de sol (Sep 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evan&Anna's_Mom* 
There is a big difference between saying that most (reported) abuse is perpetrated by men and saying *most men are abusers*. Given that most abusers will abuse more than one person, even if you accept the 20% of children are abused statistic, it doesn't follow that for each abused child there is an abusive man.

I think we agree. When did I or anyone on this thread say that "most men are abusers"???


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## MtBikeLover (Jun 30, 2005)

This does not say child molester to me. Many of the things you listed are things that my parents do with my kids - they kiss on the lips, they hold them in their laps, they have their picture as the screensaver on their computers, if they are watching TV in their room the kids will usually crawl up and lay with them, etc. And my family is NOT an overly touchy family. But they love my kids immensely and truly love to spend time and be with them.

And I agree with another poster that if they were holding my baby and I inched closer, they would wonder what was wrong with me.


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## craft_media_hero (May 15, 2009)

The statistics really don't matter here. The numbers don't matter. The debate about how many men exactly are predators compared with women doesn't matter either.

What matters is that the mama's gut says something is wrong. Period. That's all that matters. Listen to your gut!

Get out of there, fast. Move in with the auntie you mentioned in pp. If that's not possible, then I'm sorry, but I'd have to agree w/ pp who mentioned anonymous call to INS. And YES check out what pics he has on his computer! This is your child's safety! Wouldn't you rather be "paranoid" now than to later wish that you had just been a little more protective and regret if for the rest of your life?

Avoiding the uncle is a temporary consideration that will not work in the long run. Do you really want to never be able to leave your house without your children because you will never be sure if MIL or other adult is going to unintentionally give him a chance?

He's not leaving; if you want to feel like your children are safe in their home, then you have to find a new home for them.

So sorry you're going through this!

But please, trust your instincts. When it comes to the lecherous vibe, moms are usually right on.


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## MissRubyandKen (Nov 2, 2005)

OP- I would also be uncomfortable with Uncle. Even with cultural differences and whether it were a male or female family member I would be uncomfortable. Taking my child away alone without my permission would have ended pretty much any concern I had over sparing feelings. No, a hundred times, no. Also having a picture of my child I did not recognize I would definitely check the pics on the computer. It definitely doesn't have to mean anything. But I would check all the same. He did entrust the computer to your dh so one would think that alone would declare there was nothing worrisome on there. I would definitely do everything I could to establish boundaries with him for the time you have to share a living space. You need to feel comfortable in your parenting in this matter.


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## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

Thanks again, everyone.

My DH is now on board with me. He actually told me that awhile back, his cousin was living upstairs with his grandma, and his sister, then 10, reported excessive hugging that wouldn't stop- and no one tried to stop it either. He said that he knows things can happen.

I also shared with him a story of mine.. when I was 4yo, I was possibly sexually abused by my mother's fiance (NOT my current stepdad







). I don't remember it, I remember telling my mom but I remember thinking that I was lying to them and the police and being scared of the policeman. Not sure if it is post traumatic denial or what, but I still shared that with him (there was a restraining order filed and he served jail time).

This freaked out my husband quite a bit, and he agreed that DD goes where we go.. MIL won't watch her unless we absolutely need her to. So the situation is partially under control for now







I discussed with him many of the things discussed in this thread and it really helped him understand where I'm coming from. Thanks again!


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## rayo de sol (Sep 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WindyCityMom* 
My DH is now on board with me. He actually told me that awhile back, his cousin was living upstairs with his grandma, and *his sister, then 10, reported excessive hugging that wouldn't stop- and no one tried to stop it either.*

WindyCityMom, I'm so glad that your DH is taking this possible threat of sexual abuse seriously now.

So, you're saying that the creepy uncle was hugging the 10-year-old girl so much that it was bothering her?

Ack! Don't let him touch your DD anymore, please!

Or was it this cousin you mention who was disrespecting the 10-year-old? I'm confused. Is this a cousin that still lives in the same building?

Am I understanding that there are now _two_ potentially creepy men in this house? Sorry in advance if I've got this all wrong!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WindyCityMom* 
This freaked out my husband quite a bit, and he agreed that DD goes where we go.. *MIL won't watch her unless we absolutely need her to.* So the situation is partially under control for now







I discussed with him many of the things discussed in this thread and it really helped him understand where I'm coming from. Thanks again!

The part I bolded above worries me. Does your MIL understand that the uncle is not to touch or be near or ever be left alone with DD? Does she truly _get_ the danger of sexual abuse? Or is she in denial?

It doesn't really sound like a good idea to have MIL watching DD when the uncle is right there. Is there another babysitter you could use instead--preferably one in a different household so that the uncle wouldn't be around?


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## 4myfinn (Dec 29, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rayo de sol* 

It doesn't really sound like a good idea to have MIL watching DD when the uncle is right there. Is there another babysitter you could use instead--preferably one in a different household so that the uncle wouldn't be around?

Yeah, I agree. I wouldn't let anyone in the house watch DD. Unless they're willing to accept that the uncle is a potential predator, keep them away from your daughter. It only takes a minute for her to be victimized. Anyone watching your daughter needs to be on guard, including the MIL.


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## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

no, not two of them in the house- the old one was DHs cousin and he moved out a few years ago (before we moved in). It was HIM with DHs sister (then 10yo), not the uncle that I'm speaking of.

The uncle works every day with FIL from very early in the morning until dinnertime.. so if there is need for MIL to watch DD during the morning hours that's better. Otherwise, DD will be with us. We're not going to let MIL watch her until we discuss this with her. She's very opinionated and I know this won't go over well.. I know it's ridiculous, not sure if it is denial or ignorance.


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## Mulvah (Aug 12, 2008)

It is highly concerning that you're planning to stick around. I understand life circumstances, I do. However, if you and your husband are now convinced his uncle is a predator and treating it as fact, you really need to make an exit plan. IMO, you cannot expect someone else to protect your child(ren).


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## Materfamilias (Feb 22, 2008)

I would be wigged out by this guy.
The taking the baby OUT OF THE HOUSE without my knowledge or consent would have been the deal breaker. The man would not be allowed to touch my DD after that. No way.


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## rayo de sol (Sep 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WindyCityMom* 
We're not going to let MIL watch her until we discuss this with her. She's very opinionated and I know this won't go over well.. I know it's ridiculous, not sure if it is denial or ignorance.

It sounds like your MIL might be in denial. Don't leave DD with MIL if MIL can't acknowledge any danger from Uncle.

There are a lot of people in denial about sexual abuse. In our culture it's a tradition for it to be taboo to talk about and acknowledge. It's just been in the last couple of decades that people have been slowly waking up to the reality.

Just know that the Uncle has been displaying classic sex offender grooming signs. Have you read Protecting the Gift yet? Would MIL read it?

I agree with others that you should really be working on a plan to move out. It is not feasible long-term for DD's safety to be living in the same house as a possible child molester. You really don't want to take chances like that.


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