# Saying No to Nebulizer for Toddlers?



## Evie P.

Despite that sticky, toddlers seems like right forum but feel free to move if I'm wrong --

In last two weeks, I've had advice from two very different people from very different backgrounds about using a nebulizer on a toddler or baby who has viral-induced asthma. They say it is better to wait it out, using lots of steam showers and using vaporizer, etc. And it really jives with what I've been feeing about how bad those medications are for a toddler, but I am scared to follow this advice since we're talking about breathing. I'd like to hear from you on this!

The idea is that, unless the child is really in distress asthma-wise, it's better to hold off from the nebulizer. Apparently with small kids, it can cause rebound effect, where the swelling comes back much worse as nebulizer starts to wear off. And there are other problems as well, but I am not too clear on the specifics as I have not yet done much reading on it.

Our guy is sick about twice a month, and it goes straight to the chest. (He had RSV at 3 months, and this kind of sickness-getting seems to have happened ever since. He's now 28 mos. but has never had a real fever, i think cause I still nurse.) He has never had a very severe asthma attack but usually gets horrible chest cold and some wheezing and has to be held in chair all night to sleep, etc. His breathing is rapid when this happens but not gasping. We keep switching docs, and we do like our current one, but they advise using the pulmicort and xopenex at FIRST SIGN of a cough or runny nose. Then if the cough and rapid breathing doesn't go away in a couple days, they put him on orapred (steroid). With all these medications, he goes quite crazy and I feel that they cause a whole other problem with his mood and behavior which makes it harder for him to heal. I have a sneaky feeling that the awful sicknesses would last the same amount of time and be about the same amount of severity with or without all these horrible drugs. In some ways I start to think that the drugs even increase the severity of the sickness in between doses, and the rebound idea fits with that.

He does not have allergies -- we had him tested.

Singulaire and/or Nasonex seems to help a little in terms of reducing severity of each illness. But here too I hate idea of giving this tiny kid a drug or two every single day!!

What do you think?


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## FancyD

Hmmm, I won't be much help wrt the asthma q's, but I do have to medicate my boy with several different meds/day. It blows, so I'm sending you a









Hope you get answers soon!


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## Evie P.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FancyD* 
Hmmm, I won't be much help wrt the asthma q's, but I do have to medicate my boy with several different meds/day. It blows, so I'm sending you a









Hope you get answers soon!

Oh you sweet thing! I am so sorry for your boy to have to have that! it is so hard! I started using little gifts to get him to take the medication because I was sick of doing CIO-equivalent in forcing him to take medication, but I guess this wouldn't work if you had to do 365 gifts a year. Good luck to you!


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## moonlight mom

My ds also had RSV and was hospitalized for it when he was 23 months. Now whenever he gets a cold it goes straight to his chest. I find that if we use the nebulizer right away then we avoid steroids all together. This is very important to me because steroids are a very harmful medication and he doesn't sleep and acts crazy when he is on them.
I haven't heard many negatives about using a nebulizer, however I haven't really reseached it too well either. I just know I want to avoid steroids as much as possible.


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## Momily

Untreated asthma can be a very dangerous thing. Both in the short term, as it's a significant cause of death in young children, and in the long term as it can cause a child's airways to "remodel" and basically become deformed/damaged. My 8 year old has permanent lung damage because we weren't able to get control of his reactive airway problems when he was younger (his were caused by reflux and aspiration and were quite severe).

I know how scary asthma meds can be -- we've had significant side effects (growth suppression, hyperactivity) but I think it's important to keep in mind that the other option (leaving it untreated) can be worse.

One more thought -- according to my doctor, the side effects from one short round of Orapred or another oral steroid are equal or worse than the side effects of many months of daily use of an inhaled steroid like Pulmicort. I can definitely vouch for that being true from my point of view. So, if he's getting to the point where he's needing Orapred on anything like a routine basis (more than once or twice a year) then putting him on something daily that's less potent is a good idea.

Sorry to be so scary.


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## daniedb

Sounds exactly like my boys. The good news is that H is seeming to outgrow it as he gets bigger and his airways grow. He's almost 4 and we haven't had to use the neb for him in months. Ben, OTOH, has needed it almost constantly the last month, and before that, sporadically every few months (for a few weeks at a time). Henry was exactly the same way as Ben at that age, so I really believe that B will outgrow needing it as often as he does now.

As for the steroids, I found that - and this is contrary to the directions, so I am certainly NOT advocating for it







- that we gave him a 1/4 tsp vs. 1 full tsp. ONCE a day (vs. 2 times a day - 2 tsp a day!) after our bout of giving the full amount and ending up with a feral child who slept 30 minutes a night. The 1/4 tsp got him better in days, and to counteract the misery that he had last time (he was able to verbalize how miserable he was with the jitters and constant motion needs brought on by the steroids), and to help with the congestion, we also dosed with him Benadryl every in the morning and then again at bedtime.

So, personal experience - I give the neb when he gets chesty, and I keep it up for 3 treatments a day until he's better, and after 3 days of no improvement on the neb, I give him 1/4 t (this is my 39 lb preschooler) of the steroid for ~3-4 days (he's never taken longer than that to get better).


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## wonderwahine

I use the nebulizer on DS, I've never had a problem with the rebound effect.


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## UUMom

My sister has a 100% naturally birthed, ebf, unvax'd 28 mos old who has chest issues in winter. She does the saline alone in the neb and it works great! The neb (with or without the med part) can be a really rocking tool. Whatever avoids the antbx, as we say here in our family. Every person has an Achilles heel. I would decide ont he course of treatment with the help of a trusted health care provider. I think finding that trsuted person is one of the most important things you can do for your family.


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## wannabe

My personal call, as I sit here with a not life-threatening viral-induced patch of asthma, feeling like I'm gasping for breath every single time, and wanting to cry because of it, and having real difficulty stopping coughing, and not looking AT ALL like I'm as distressed as I am, is give him the drugs!!!

Seriously, it's a horrendous horrendous feeling, and my breathing is not really any faster than normal. If I were non-verbal no-one would know how horrible it feels.


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## Satori

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momily* 
Untreated asthma can be a very dangerous thing. Both in the short term, as it's a significant cause of death in young children, and in the long term as it can cause a child's airways to "remodel" and basically become deformed/damaged. My 8 year old has permanent lung damage because we weren't able to get control of his reactive airway problems when he was younger (his were caused by reflux and aspiration and were quite severe).

I know how scary asthma meds can be -- we've had significant side effects (growth suppression, hyperactivity) but I think it's important to keep in mind that the other option (leaving it untreated) can be worse.







:
One more thought -- according to my doctor, the side effects from one short round of Orapred or another oral steroid are equal or worse than the side effects of many months of daily use of an inhaled steroid like Pulmicort. I can definitely vouch for that being true from my point of view. So, if he's getting to the point where he's needing Orapred on anything like a routine basis (more than once or twice a year) then putting him on something daily that's less potent is a good idea.

Sorry to be so scary.









:


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## eepster

Idon't know anything about the meds you LO is on, or his condition. I can not tell you anything medical. However, I can tell from your post that you are not happy with his current treatment plan, and that you mommy instincts are telling you to look into it. I strongly believe in listening to your instincts, and they are telling you that you need to do something different.

My very simple advice is ask to be refered to a specialist.


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## ThreeBeans

No no no!

Do NOT hold off on a nebulizer treatment!

As a severe asthmatic and a former paramedic I can tell you that is absolutely HORRIBLE advice.

Kids crash FAST, much faster than adults. They can be fine, fine, fine, fine, DEAD. If you don't get that nebulizer going while they are still breathing well enough to inhale the medication, VERY ugly things can happen.


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## lexapurple

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
My personal call, as I sit here with a not life-threatening viral-induced patch of asthma, feeling like I'm gasping for breath every single time, and wanting to cry because of it, and having real difficulty stopping coughing, and not looking AT ALL like I'm as distressed as I am, is give him the drugs!!!

Seriously, it's a horrendous horrendous feeling, and my breathing is not really any faster than normal. If I were non-verbal no-one would know how horrible it feels.









:

When I have an asthma attack, nobody but my dad who is an ashtmatic and my Smom who lived with my dad for 15years, could tell whats going on. I feel much worse than I look.


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## UUMom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
No no no!

Do NOT hold off on a nebulizer treatment!

As a severe asthmatic and a former paramedic I can tell you that is absolutely HORRIBLE advice.

Kids crash FAST, much faster than adults. They can be fine, fine, fine, fine, DEAD. If you don't get that nebulizer going while they are still breathing well enough to inhale the medication, VERY ugly things can happen.

I can tell you that we once parted the waters in the ER with an 18 mos old (now 13) who was having difficulty breathing due to a chest cold. He was fine-- i didn't even realize he had more than a cold, and then he started with labored breathing. I scooped him up and walked to the hospital (that was around the corner from my home). The waiting room was packed, and I didn't call ahead. Yet, the intake nurse and others at the reception desk took one look at him, and two people ran to open the door for us, and at the same time the intake person said "Come in, now!!". I never saw such a thing. One treatment later, he was toddling around, being charming. That shocked me.


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## zmom

Evie P. -

My DD (3) has asthma that mostly manifests itself during a chest cold and/or allergy season. We started her on Singular at about 18 months after she was hospitalized for pneumonia which she developed as a result of a cold that went into her lungs (this was before we knew she had asthma). At that time, we also started her on Zyrtec for allergies. They also gave us an inhaler (why they didn't start us on a nebulizer, I'll never figure out) which didn't quite work with an 18 month old but then we transferred over to the nebulizer. (She has not been tested for allergies because my allergist told me that it isn't until age 3 that allergy tests are accurate but DP and I both have allergies and we live in one of the worst allergy locations in the US so it really wouldn't surprise me!)

At first, we were slow to give her the treatments and only gave them to her when she had been coughing for days. Now, the first time she coughs, she starts getting her breathing treatments. We're now coming down from 2 weeks of coughing (which lead to bronchitis - our second bronchitis in 2 months). Apparently, you can give the treatments every 3-4 hours instead of every 4-6 hours and that extra treatment seems to be making the difference. (Well, that and the antibiotics - of course, check with your doctor before you do this!)

Hmmm. I'm not making it sound like the nebulizer helps, am I? What I mean is that I have several instances where I'm absolutely positive that if we had NOT used the nebulizer, she'd have ended up back in the hospital with pneumonia.

Also, don't bother renting one from your insurance - we did that not knowing any better and spent almost $300 on a "rental" which they then wanted to sell us for another $150! We bought one on Amazon for $60 instead and it's a cute little penguin that Z says is "helping" her.

Anyway, I have no idea if any of my ramblings have helped and I know how hard it is to not want to use meds but to have a sick baby. I figure, if it keeps Z out of the hospital, I'll do the breathing treatments as much as I can!


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## flapjack

OK. Firstly, you need to know that an asthma attack will scar the lungs and can make future attacks more intense. You also need to know that asthma kills.

There is a really hard adjustment process to accepting that your beautiful, perfect tiny person has a health condition that is potentially life-threatening- especially if, as in the case of my DS2 and your little darling, the majority of the time they're fine. If you want to talk more about it and vent on your journey through life with an asthmatic, I've btdt and I'm here to listen. A LOT of people will say that children should be left to it, that they'll come through it, use steam, etc. BUT:
Can you imagine how terrifying it must be to be unable to breathe and not to understand what's going on?

I, personally, would recommend singulaire- Isaac has been on it for 3 months now and finally, his asthma is under control (definition- reliever medication once a week or less.) I would not recommend the use of a nebuliser, but instead would suggest that you talk to his doctors about the use of a salbutamol inhaler with a spacer and mask. Not only is it more portable and less invasive than being hooked up to a machine for 10 minutes at a time, it's also less expensive. I know that the current fashion in the US is for nebulisers as a first line of treatment, but there are other options. You can also give smaller doses more easily with an inhaler and spacer- one dose of a neb equals ten puffs of an inhaler.
Looking at your management plan, I think you need some long-lasting drugs in there. A small child should not BE in crisis with their asthma twice a month. In particular, though, you need to get that salbutamol intake (through the neb) down as fast as possible if he's suffering hyperactivity symptoms, which means that you just HAVE to get on top of this and manage it properly. There is a balancing line in here between the use of steroids and reliever medication, and in your shoes I'd start asking for the steroids earlier to get the attack under control quicker. I'd also consider constitutional treatment from a homoeopath- this is NOT going to get better on its own any time soon.

You are going to get a hell of a lot of crap from people whose children had a mild dose of croup once at 3 months and think they know everything imaginable about respiratory distress. Their experiences do not relate to yours- it's the equivalent of comparing childbirth to removing a diva cup. The planet we get to live on is a different one, where every few weeks/days/months, something happens bad enough that we go "thank god he came through that one, I'm so glad he's here" and you are constantly reminded of your blessings.







Sorry if it sounded like I'm scaremongering, but this is not something to take lightly.


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## Sierra

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
Kids crash FAST, much faster than adults. If you don't get that nebulizer going while they are still breathing well enough to inhale the medication, VERY ugly things can happen.

Yes, ds was on the neb for most of his infancy and early toddlerhood. He is now 2.5 and has an inhaler (two different meds-- one to treat an acute attack and one he used to use twice daily but now only needs to use that regularly if he has gotten a cold, if the weather is rapidly becoming more damp, etc.).

As his airways have grown, his breathing has gotten much better. BUT as soon as he gets a cold, we start with his daily treatments and move in to treat his attacks as necessary. A couple of times we have held off because he wasn't wheezing much yet and looked okay, but each of those times, he "crashed" fast and nearly ended up in the hospital. We ended up at the docs office with everyone in a panic because he was in bad shape. We also ended up doing the more serious oral steroids in *addition* to the neb/inhaler in those cases. So holding off on the neb/inhaler didn't save him anything.

I definitely get how it is to have mixed feelings about this stuff. My ds has a number of special needs, and I still struggled with this one in particular. I remember researching and worrying and tossing and turning in bed at night for a while over my decision to go forward with the breathing treatments vs. trying endless alternatives. But looking back, I can tell I made a good decision in doing them, and it was such a short time in his life when he needed it daily.

As I understand it, the most serious effects of the inhaler and nebulizer treatments usually don't come into play unless there is an ever-increasing dose given over many years. That said, not as much with his inhaler meds, but with his nebulizer, my ds used to have a harder time sleeping at night if we gave his meds too close to bed. Usually we'd just try to do his last treatment by 4pm at the latest. When we have to do treatments all night long (some scary episodes with breathing challenges), we just know he may not sleep so well.


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## ThreeBeans

Flapjack, you were quite eloquent and you stated it beautifully. I just wanted to correct a minor misconception.

We don't use nebulizers as a 'first line of defense' unless the child is unable to properly use a spacer and inhaler (which is common in the very young crowd)


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## flapjack

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
Flapjack, you were quite eloquent and you stated it beautifully. I just wanted to correct a minor misconception.

We don't use nebulizers as a 'first line of defense' unless the child is unable to properly use a spacer and inhaler (which is common in the very young crowd)









That is REALLY good to hear. I saw three or four kids and siblings from my DDC (American, obviously) who have been prescribed nebulisers for one reason or another in their toddler and baby years. My inner cynic assumes that it's related to the fact that most people have insurance which will pick up the tab, whereas prescriptions for all this stuff is free over here and I only know of one person who has a nebuliser.
OP, I get a lot of help from the people who run www.asthma.org.uk


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## Village Mama

I personally love the neb. I remember how scary it was though when I was in your position. And how irritated and helpless I felt after reading the responses to a thread I wrote that was so similar to yours. I did NOT want them on meds like that. Our situation spun out of control with both boys needing hospital visits about once every two weeks. They would get cold after cold and we couldnt get a handle on it. We went on a steroid inhaler for the cold and flu season for that year. The nebs worked so well for us when the boys were sick . It really seemed like it kept us away from the hospital. I remember when we had to rely on the inhalers for emergencies. My oldest was taking the dose properly and with a spacer but it was only lasting 15 min or so for any relief. He started turning blue and it was so terrifying. Now I pull out the neb treatments at the first sign of a cold and it just seems to get the meds to him in a reliable way. We have kept out of the hospital for almost two years now... except for last christmas day with the little guy. I always bring it on vacation with me now too. ( If the mama in the US who sent us the neb for the holiday helper thread that year sees this... thanks again!) The mamas here have such great advice... they really do know what they are talking about.
On a side note... making changes in the home environment as far as making it less allergenic, really helped us even though the problem is Viral asthma. Making that effort made a huge difference for us!


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## gingerstar

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
No no no!

Do NOT hold off on a nebulizer treatment!

As a severe asthmatic and a former paramedic I can tell you that is absolutely HORRIBLE advice.

Kids crash FAST, much faster than adults. They can be fine, fine, fine, fine, DEAD. If you don't get that nebulizer going while they are still breathing well enough to inhale the medication, VERY ugly things can happen.

Yes. That.
My DD (age 3) was fine at bedtime, woke up at 7 am struggling, wouldn't do her inhaler, lay on the couch. She coughed up this horrible mucus... After transport to the ER, several treatments, oral steroids, transported to another hospital and seen by a resp. specialist, who told me that she was very near death, that the mucus was from her lungs.

I agree with flapjack, Singulair can make a dramatic difference in asthma control, but it is not one you see overnight. I think you should continue it, because I am pretty sure you will be glad you did. Also, instead of the salbutamol that flapjack refers to, it would be albuterol over here. However, it is easier to nebulize an unwilling child. And my DD, who hated it too, learned very quickly what a difference it made in her ability to breathe.

*Helen, I am so glad to hear Singulair helped Isaac so much!*

Also, re:steroid - yes, inhaled steroids are vastly preferable to oral steroids. We, too, have seen some growth repression, but in the past year she has grown over 3 inches, and seems to be catching up. A long-term study was done which showed that asthma pt. on inhaled steroids did catch up in height to the control group, after about age 12. Oral steroids, short term, with a tapering dose, will not have the worst of the side effects, but inhaled steroids will have much less, and when you weigh risk/benefit, it is worth it to have the asthma under control.

http://www.njc.org/disease-info/dise...hma/index.aspx
is my favorite site for learning about asthma - they are the leading place in the US for asthma and respiratory disease.








mama, this is very hard. Good luck.


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## ledzepplon

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom* 
I can tell you that we once parted the waters in the ER with an 18 mos old (now 13) who was having difficulty breathing due to a chest cold. He was fine-- i didn't even realize he had more than a cold, and then he started with labored breathing. I scooped him up and walked to the hospital (that was around the corner from my home). The waiting room was packed, and I didn't call ahead. Yet, the intake nurse and others at the reception desk took one look at him, and two people ran to open the door for us, and at the same time the intake person said "Come in, now!!". I never saw such a thing. One treatment later, he was toddling around, being charming. That shocked me.

This is so similar to what happened with my ds. Barely had a cold, then bam! Labored breathing. I took him to urgent care and they wanted to transfer him to the hospital because his oxygen levels were so low. But before they did, they gave him the nebulizer treatment and he was able to breathe again just fine.

Compared to what medical interventions you might face if the situation gets out of control, I think the nebulizer is extremely innocuous.


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## Kat_shoshin

Quote:

When I have an asthma attack, nobody but my dad who is an ashtmatic and my Smom who lived with my dad for 15years, could tell whats going on. I feel much worse than I look.
I agree with that.

Also, there will be behaviour issues from the meds, but there will also be from not medicating - just not obviously annoying to you ones. I was really quiet and easy to manage, because I didn't have the breath to run or scream!

I have been an asthmatic my whole life... I went undiagnosed for years as an uninsurred kid who just got a lot of colds







: ... I remember being 6 or 7 sitting on our deck with my mom because I couldn't breathe well enough to sleep. It was pretty ridiculous not being medicated and really dangerous.

Mine is under control and I no longer need meds at most times, but walking in the suddenly cold air today with my Ergo on and pushing a stroller up a hill I realized that I have become complacent and I have got to put a puffer in my diaper bag.

My DH on the other hand, come into Asthma late in life and doesn't have the understanding that I do of it. He takes his meds too late, after he is already frustrated and exhausted and then just sleeps.

He also feels worse than he looks... I have to look closely to see why he is being so cranky - and he's a grown man that can clearly articulate himself.

I also want to second the neb vs the puffers. Even as a kid I knew that the neb works better for longer. Use the puffers for daily out of the house etc. but if they are really sick... turn on the TV loud and hook up the machine... it gets it in there so much better - especially because after it starts to take effect, then they will be able to breathe in the rest alot easier.


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## gingerstar

Just to expound on these stories, when my DD had that attack, we were in the ER for 8 hours; they would do a treatment, she would sit up and talk, then she would slowly sink down, her O2 #'s would slide down, she would turn grey again...another treatment, another temporary improvement... some oral steroids....another treatment....for EIGHT hours we did this. That is when they transferred and admitted her. She was kept overnight, because we had waited so long, she took that long to be stabilized.
I never want to go through that again, ever. THAT is why we do...
-inhaled steroid, daily
-Singulair, daily
-Nasonex, daily during spring and fall
-albuterol, rarely.

Another example, she needs the Nasonex in the fall, but at first I was sketchy on when in the fall to start. Her peak flow numbers, which indicate how her lung function is, were great. Wed, she starts with allergy symptoms, so I start the Nasonex - but it was too late, by Friday she is on albuterol every 4 hours, for three days, because I needed to get the Nasonex started before her allergies kicked in. You live and learn, but the price.....


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## kate~mom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evie P.* 
He has never had a very severe asthma attack but usually gets horrible chest cold and some wheezing and has to be held in chair all night to sleep, etc. His breathing is rapid when this happens but not gasping. We keep switching docs, and we do like our current one, but they advise using the pulmicort and xopenex at FIRST SIGN of a cough or runny nose. Then if the cough and rapid breathing doesn't go away in a couple days, they put him on orapred (steroid). With all these medications, he goes quite crazy and I feel that they cause a whole other problem with his mood and behavior which makes it harder for him to heal.

just a few thoughts - the symptoms that you describe sound like they would be something i would like to avoid if i were in your ds's situation, no? wheezing, rapid breathing - doesn't sound like that would be within my comfort zone as the parent of an asthmatic child.

to add to the stories - before my ds went on preventative inhaled steroids (which he is on fall-spring), he was hospitalized for symptoms like you were describing. he was ten months old, crawling around like a banshee - and breathing rapidly and wheezing. repeated doses of albuterol did nothing. to the er we go - and his oxygen saturation is ridiculously low. you would NOT have known it. it was rather frightening to see er staff in a near panic as they read the numbers.

our asthma specialist also recommended that we start ds back on the pulmicort at the first sign of a cold. even though ds is a little runny in the nose, it's staying out of his chest.

my advice - find an allergy/asthma specialist who will listen to you and answer your questions conprehensively. we're as crunchy as they come with most things, but i am not willing to mess around with ds's breathing. yes, he probably is a little smaller than he would be without this for the third winter in a row, and yes, he can get hyper and have some meltdowns - but in terms of that, i don't think it is necessarily worse than your average 2 yr old, or worse than he is over the summer when he is not on a steroid, or worse than just normal sick-grumpiness. hth


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## sbgrace

I understand not wanting to do a daily med. But I suggest that you really think about singulair.
It has meant we hardly ever use our nebulizer. When we (foolishly) weaned off he began having attacks and we were using the nebulizer daily, sometimes multiple times.
We put him back on and he's back to using it maybe once a month.

Our integrative medicine doctor said in some ways singulair is more like a supplement than a medication (I have no clue; I just know he was perfectly comfortable with it and he is an alternative practioner).


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## UUMom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gingerstar* 

"The days are long, but the years are short."


Sharon! I live by this with my kids. I've never seen anyone else with such a siggy. Thank you for the reminder.


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## gingerstar

UUmom - I need to keep reminding myself of it....

OP, here's an asthma thread that might be helpful for you...
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=740402


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## medicmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
My personal call, as I sit here with a not life-threatening viral-induced patch of asthma, feeling like I'm gasping for breath every single time, and wanting to cry because of it, and having real difficulty stopping coughing, and not looking AT ALL like I'm as distressed as I am, is give him the drugs!!!

Seriously, it's a horrendous horrendous feeling, and my breathing is not really any faster than normal. If I were non-verbal no-one would know how horrible it feels.

My thoughts exactly!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
No no no!

Do NOT hold off on a nebulizer treatment!

As a severe asthmatic and a former paramedic I can tell you that is absolutely HORRIBLE advice.

Kids crash FAST, much faster than adults. They can be fine, fine, fine, fine, DEAD. If you don't get that nebulizer going while they are still breathing well enough to inhale the medication, VERY ugly things can happen.

VERY UGLY!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lexapurple* 







:

When I have an asthma attack, nobody but my dad who is an ashtmatic and my Smom who lived with my dad for 15years, could tell whats going on. I feel much worse than I look.

Thsta how I feel.


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## wannabe

I went and got a new inhaler today


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## anonymamadaddy

Evie P. said:


> Despite that sticky, toddlers seems like right forum but feel free to move if I'm wrong --
> 
> In last two weeks, I've had advice from two very different people from very different backgrounds about using a nebulizer on a toddler or baby who has viral-induced asthma. They say it is better to wait it out, using lots of steam showers and using vaporizer, etc. And it really jives with what I've been feeing about how bad those medications are for a toddler, but I am scared to follow this advice since we're talking about breathing. I'd like to hear from you on this!
> 
> The idea is that, unless the child is really in distress asthma-wise, it's better to hold off from the nebulizer. Apparently with small kids, it can cause rebound effect, where the swelling comes back much worse as nebulizer starts to wear off. And there are other problems as well, but I am not too clear on the specifics as I have not yet done much reading on it.
> 
> Our guy is sick about twice a month, and it goes straight to th


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## wednesday

This thread has been very informative. DS was hospitalized with RSV at 26 months, and after a very wheezy chest thing last winter (age 3) we were told he may have mild asthma. We've been advised to neb him several times a day whenever he has a cough. I thought the docs were kind of over-reacting but maybe not? They gave us generic albuterol to put into the nebulizer. Thanks to everyone who posted about taking an asthma diagnosis seriously.


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## Evie P.

thanks for all these posts and info, mamas.

The only question I still have is about severity and when to start nebulizing -- a lot of you writing here seem to be talking about people who have asthma all/most the time (yourselves or your kids). My son is completely fine breathing-wise except when he gets sick. Over the summer he only got sick once and thus only had asthma once the whole summer.

The doctor started having us nebulize him the second he had a runny nose or anything, before he was having any breathing issues, in an effort to keep it from getting severe. They also want to use the pulmicort as a preventative everyday though he has no symptoms except when he is sick.

The advice I had gotten about that rebound effect made me think that I should wait to nebulize until he was having real rapid breathing. I have asked her to send me the article and will post it here once she does.


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## LoveChild421

My son also went though that.

Every time he got a cold it went straight to his chest and he had what our ped. diagnosed as "viral-induced asthma." He would wheeze if he ran too much or got sick. He went on the nebulizer with albuterol everytime he had a cold for weeks on end and even had a couple severe episodes that landed us in the ER. After he got over the flu last winter, I knew I had to do something because I didn't want him on all of that medication every time he got a cold or the flu. He would have tremors and look terrified after he had an albuterol treatment. I wanted to find the root cause and heal it.

I took Grey to my Naturopath and he started him on 2 homeopathics (1 attenuated viral nosode formulation (Grey also had RSV at 4 months and thats when all his problems started), 1 tonifier for lymphatic support) and a Chinese Herbal remedy. That was when he was 20 months old. Since then he has had colds and not once have they been worse than a stuffy head cold. He hasn't had any lung involvement and *we haven't needed the nebulizer once.* *I highly recommend anyone who is dealing with this consider taking their child to a naturopath, it is the best thing I ever decided to do.*


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## loriforeman

raegan never breathed rapidly...nor was i really able to tell that she was wheezing. on one of her check-ups, her doctor almost flipped...her oxygen was pretty low.

we ended up using a neb every four hours around the clock. the difference in my little babe was amazing...and we never had a rebound effect. she was on the nebulizer til she was about two, and hasn't used it since.


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## flapjack

Evie, we really were where you are now. DS started with croup: three isolated attacks within a two month period that required hospitalisation when one of them nearly killed him. Literally- at one point his oxygen saturation levels got below 70 and his blood pressure was 70/20. THEN the following autumn the combination of a cold and seasonal allergies that we had no idea he even had landed him in hospital with his second asthma attack- his first, we didn't get treatment for because we didn't recognise it and it lasted for several days, almost a week. It wasn't that bad. By the time he went back to the doctors for a follow-up visit after a week out of hospital his peak flow meter readings were back to normal. We had maybe a dozen severe attacks over the course of that first year, with absolutely no asthma symptoms whatsoever between times- literally, we couldn't remember where the blue inhalers were when a bad attack hit because it had been so long since we last needed them.
What I found is that the attacks increased in frequency and decreased in severity as DS grew- I don't know if this is because we grew with him and got better at managing them, or if this is a normal pattern for children? Then, finally, we found the combination of treatments that lets him live a normal life. Like you, we're blessed because Isaac doesn't have exercise-induced asthma. He has three triggers- viruses, mould spores and cold air- and it appears to take a combination of the two to trigger an attack.








In those specific circumstances, it could be worth doing an initial neb as soon as you see the runny nose, or using the nebuliser at a less frequent dosage. It is going to be trial and error, but you'll get it in the end.


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## Village Mama

Lovechild... I agree that you can have really wonderful sucess with homeopathics. We had started off using a homeopath with the boys and were starting to see results. The problem for us was that we spent a lot of money and it is a bit of a process. In the meantime we ended up in the hospital. The doctors and nurses were sccreaming medical neglect and we felt that the best thing to do was to go on the meds. At almost 50 dollars a week for meds per kid, we could not afford to continue with the homeopathy. Just to say that many homeopaths will work in conjunction with the meds. Since we are heading into the cold season though I think it is important to remember that homeopathics( while wonderful) take time and heavy experience to show improvement... and that you don't always have that time to play with. Docs in my experience do not accept homeopathy as a valid alternative...


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## Ellien C

Is this advice all relevant for VIRAL induced asthma?

We recently had a bout of this where DH (4) was coughing for at least 3 weeks. But no other symptoms - her breathing seemed fine, she was running around playing etc. I finally took her to Dr. who listened to her chest and said she was wheezing on exhale and we needed a short course of steroids and breathing tx 4x a day.

The steroids were horrible, tasted awful, she wouldn't take them and behavioral issues mounted to crisis proportions. She took partial doses for 3 days/5 and then I gave up.

The breathing tx she hated - the nebulizer was noisy, it scared her, the mask was awful and there was simply not enough time in the day (WOHM) to get 4 treatments in. At best we gave her 2 treatments a day for about a week.

Doctor said she didn't have chronic asthma or an allergy, but this was a one-time viral thing. I had a similar cough as her and a sore throat. Her cough has cleared up and we've given up on breathing treatments. I never noticed her having any difficulty breathing myself, just the cough.


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## Satori

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ellien C* 
Is this advice all relevant for VIRAL induced asthma?

We recently had a bout of this where DH (4) was coughing for at least 3 weeks. But no other symptoms - her breathing seemed fine, she was running around playing etc. I finally took her to Dr. who listened to her chest and said she was wheezing on exhale and we needed a short course of steroids and breathing tx 4x a day.

The steroids were horrible, tasted awful, she wouldn't take them and behavioral issues mounted to crisis proportions. She took partial doses for 3 days/5 and then I gave up.

The breathing tx she hated - the nebulizer was noisy, it scared her, the mask was awful and there was simply not enough time in the day (WOHM) to get 4 treatments in. At best we gave her 2 treatments a day for about a week.

Doctor said she didn't have chronic asthma or an allergy, but this was a one-time viral thing. I had a similar cough as her and a sore throat. Her cough has cleared up and we've given up on breathing treatments. I never noticed her having any difficulty breathing myself, just the cough.


Yes, viral induced just means they get asthma when they have a cold. It can still kill left untreated. My oldest had asthma attacks all the time, now its only viral induced but we still treat it aggressively.


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## bluetoes

We treat my son daily with a nebulizer and clariton. For a while I would stop when he wasn't sick but invitably he'd get sick again. The problem being he is allergic to something and all the mucous in his nose/sinuses would eventually start making him cough which would often lead to him getting sick.

We just started a new med called cromolyn saline in the nebulizer that can help the situation with the allergies and I am hoping for the best.

I was in denial about the whole thing for a long time, thinking oh no he doesn't have any asthma, he just gets cough from day care and didn't want to use the nebulizer. Not one of my more rational moments of parenting. But I don't want him to have any permanent damage.


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## flapjack

I think that accepting Isaac's asthma is the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my life. Eczema? A doddle, that'll pass. Septicaemia in a 3mo? yeah, we'll get over that and move on. He pulls through or he doesn't. Terminal illness in my father, I can deal- but accepting that my cute and cuddly ball of fluff has a chronic condition, now THAT is hard going emotionally.


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## ThreeBeans

Asthma is asthma, and it's a REACTIVE disease. Asthma has a trigger for everyone. My triggers are cigarette smoke, cold air, and SICKNESS. Sickness-induced asthma is just as serious as dust-induced asthma, dander induced asthma, etc. It's STILL asthma. The advice to delay a nebulizer treatment until breathing is rapid is so unbelievably HORRIBLE, so incredibly DANGEROUS, that it makes me very very angry.

OP, I understand it's hard to accept that your ds has a disease. Please believe me when I say that while the desire to minimize it is NATURAL, it's still a VERY BAD IDEA. A daily control medication is ideal. You don't WANT to have an exacerbation of the asthma, even when the child is sick. That's what the daily control med does.

When I was a teenager (and therefor indestructible), I didn't take my asthma seriously. I hadn't had a flare up in a long while, so I stopped carrying my rescue inhaler, stopped taking my daily medication.

I started having trouble breathing at school. We were less than three minutes from the hospital, and my friend drove me to the emergency room. I walked in through the ambulance bay and gasped for help. A few hours later I was in the ICU on a ventilator. I almost died. Technically, I DID die in the trauma bay, but they got me back.

This is not something to mess around with.


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## loraxc

Quote:

hey also want to use the pulmicort as a preventative everyday though he has no symptoms except when he is sick.
Pulmicort HAS to be taken every day for it to work. If you are only pulling it out when he is sick, the medicine is going to be essentially useless.

(Another mama of an asthmatic here urging you to comply with the recommended treatments.)

One thing that might of interest to some of you: DD's asthma has been linked to chronic sinusitis (confirmed by CT scan). We have been doing NeilMed sinus rinse religiously twice a day on the recommendation of her new ENT. We have REALLY seen a change, and this is nonpharmaceutical. Admittedly, it has not been fun to add to our routines, but I would do anything to avoid more attacks.

Also, my goodness, I would also do almost anything to avoid the oral steroids--that is one HELL of a powerful, systemic drug, and you really, truly are exposing your DS to far less steroid by doing inhaled steroids and avoiding the Orapred.


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## Village Mama

Oh man... I can so remember being in your position. I could probably pull up my post with a little searching!


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## bluetoes

I think for a while my problem was I felt like it was my fault somehow, that I could have done something different. I probably could have - not have allergies myself and not marry someone who had childhood asthma! The other night my husband had a slight wheeze, I had terrible sinus congestion and Finn was coughing his crib! We're probably all allergic to the same thing.

Sure it's more 'natural' to go without but even though it can be overused, modern medicine allows us to have a better quality of life and I take advatage of it when I can.


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## kate~mom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evie P.* 
a lot of you writing here seem to be talking about people who have asthma all/most the time (yourselves or your kids). My son is completely fine breathing-wise except when he gets sick. Over the summer he only got sick once and thus only had asthma once the whole summer.

The doctor started having us nebulize him the second he had a runny nose or anything, before he was having any breathing issues, in an effort to keep it from getting severe. They also want to use the pulmicort as a preventative everyday though he has no symptoms except when he is sick.

.

nope - ds only has symptoms when he is sick. our treatment plan is exactly what your dr is recommending.


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## flapjack

Quote:

I think for a while my problem was I felt like it was my fault somehow, that I could have done something different. I probably could have - not have allergies myself and not marry someone who had childhood asthma! The other night my husband had a slight wheeze, I had terrible sinus congestion and Finn was coughing his crib! We're probably all allergic to the same thing.

My boys have the same dad- DS1 had mild eczema as a baby, food allergies that disappeared early and nothing since. DS2, you know about







Sometimes, it's just bad luck.


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## CalebsMama05

hmmm I had never heard this...my 16m/o got really congested around 4 months old. NOTHING helped. his dr finally resorted to nebulizer with albuterol...in the end he had to have syrup steriods+albuterol and then a steriod that went in with his albuterol. I was starting to think that it was making him worse but once it warmed up he was fine. its starting to get cold and I'm getting wheezy and my boy is once again congested. I think come his birthday or most likely next fall he will be officially rx with athsma.


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## gingerstar

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
Pulmicort HAS to be taken every day for it to work. If you are only pulling it out when he is sick, the medicine is going to be essentially useless.

(Another mama of an asthmatic here urging you to comply with the recommended treatments.)

One thing that might of interest to some of you: DD's asthma has been linked to chronic sinusitis (confirmed by CT scan). We have been doing NeilMed sinus rinse religiously twice a day on the recommendation of her new ENT. We have REALLY seen a change, and this is nonpharmaceutical. Admittedly, it has not been fun to add to our routines, but I would do anything to avoid more attacks.

Also, my goodness, I would also do almost anything to avoid the oral steroids--that is one HELL of a powerful, systemic drug, and you really, truly are exposing your DS to far less steroid by doing inhaled steroids and avoiding the Orapred.

Yes. Thank you, loraxc.
I have a friend IRL whose DD had viral/strenous activity - triggered asthma, and for the longest time she would just give her preventative steroids when she thought her DD was having trouble... It was very frustrating for me to watch, but she had to come to terms with it, and now her DD is on a regular routine, and no longer has attacks.
That is why they are called *Preventative* meds - you don't take them when you need them, you take them so you don't need the really high-power meds like oral steroids. And since they take up to two-three weeks to be effective, if you wait until you are having trouble, it is too late.


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## Kindermama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evie P.* 

What do you think?

I think you should find an experienced homeopath ASAP for a constitutional remedy. Both mine and my daughter's asthma (allergies & eczema too) have disappeared since taking Homeopathy. It's amazing. I'm in training and I'd love to help....your son's case sounds deep, which is why I recommend seeing a very experienced homeopath. If you decide to go that route, let me know where you live and I can ask my teacher for a referral, if she has one.

What I can tell you, from my own training, is that typically asthma comes from suppressed skin issues. Did you, your son or your husband have any skin issues which were suppressed with steroid creams or antibiotics or otherwise ignored?


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## Evie P.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kindermama* 
I think you should find an experienced homeopath ASAP for a constitutional remedy. Both mine and my daughter's asthma (allergies & eczema too) have disappeared since taking Homeopathy. It's amazing. I'm in training and I'd love to help....your son's case sounds deep, which is why I recommend seeing a very experienced homeopath. If you decide to go that route, let me know where you live and I can ask my teacher for a referral, if she has one.

What I can tell you, from my own training, is that typically asthma comes from suppressed skin issues. Did you, your son or your husband have any skin issues which were suppressed with steroid creams or antibiotics or otherwise ignored?

Thanks for this note -- this thread surely has raised a lot of passionate voices. I definitely want to try homeopathy based on what you wrote and what one other person wrote above -- I even feel like it would make me feel less powerless to do so.

(One thing almost everyone is leaving out of this discussion is how hard it is to get kids to do the nebulizer, let alone the steroids -- my son gets so crazily wild and upset, and the whole thing turns into a CIO situation, though sometimes I can do it while he is sleeping. With steroids, forget it -- he is on the floor pleading with me not to take it, and then it turns him into a monster once he has taken it.)

But my issue is that I went to a homeopath last year on the recommendation of someone on this forum. He was HORRIBLE -- very mean and abrupt and almost yelling at me because I couldn't keep an 18-mo old boy still in his office for a full hour. I was almost crying in the office and he kept telling me to sit down because he had to tell me more (and everything he said was things I knew, like taking those Nordic naturals gels). He tried to charge me $250 for the visit, and I kind of bargained him down to $200, in tears. And then what he gave us didn't work at all, and it was so hard to get my son to take it. He gave us a small "serving" of it in unmarked paper envelopes so that we'd be forced to come back, and I didn't know what it was so I couldn't keep trying it.

I have no idea how to find a good one, since the one highly recommended on this site (by a local mama) was so terrible in my view. I can't afford such high fees either. I did find a homeopath in one directory who is an MD, and thus who would be covered by my insurance, so I was thinking of trying him though he sounded a bit odd on the phone. If I could find a very trust-inspiring, kind and gentle homeopath here in NYC, I would gladly try it -- if I can afford it.

What a rambling note -- sorry! Just feeling blue from this thread.


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## Evie P.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kindermama* 

What I can tell you, from my own training, is that typically asthma comes from suppressed skin issues. Did you, your son or your husband have any skin issues which were suppressed with steroid creams or antibiotics or otherwise ignored?

Oh and about that -- none with my son, but my husband has a lot of skin issues -- nothing huge, but many small rashes and cracked heels, etc. He doesn't take anything prescribed, keeps trying different over the counter remedies.


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## Evie P.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
Evie, we really were where you are now. DS started with croup: three isolated attacks within a two month period that required hospitalisation when one of them nearly killed him. Literally- at one point his oxygen saturation levels got below 70 and his blood pressure was 70/20. .

Clearly I have to bite the bullet and do treatments no matter what, based on all these replies, so I feel like it's silly to even say this -- but never has my guy shown a low number on that saturation thing. It's always good -- I think it's 100 usually, but I don't actually know the number because they always say it's good so I didn't pay too much attention to what the number was. Often I have gone in after doing nebulizer, so I don't know if that's why it's never showing bad numbers.


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## Village Mama

I remember your previous threads on asthma... the homeopath thing definitely brought that back! ( oh yes... the dog thread!) Many of the same posters, different year! ( funny actually... you should go back and read them!) I sure wish I could find my original asthma thread. I cant find anything before 2005.
The viral asthma is such a drag. It does get better. We use less and less meds every year at this point. It is scary at some times yet feels absolutely ridiculous to have a little body on so many meds and deal with so many side effects. For me it took the turning blue episode and doctors and nurses yelling at me before I really got how serious it really was. He wasnt wheezing. Just breathing more rapidly... and you could see the pull on the intake of the breath in the little divit at the front of the neck or pulling in on the tummy under the bottom of the ribs. I would never have understood how much of an emergency situation these signs were because thay look so benign. After trips to local docs and the horrified looks on thier faces and instructions to get him to emerg did this really set in! I had no idea by looking at him that his oxygen would be so low.
As long as you know the signs. Its not like the asthma we saw in the movies! I am sure you know them especially dealing with RSV in the past.


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## katsam

My little boy has had viral induced wheezing, and we have a nebulizer with albuteral to use if we need to. Luckily he has only had mild wheezing with one cold this year, and he has had several, so it seems like he is growing out of it.
Before we had the nebulizer we went to the ER during a wheezing episode, and the Dr. there wanted him on the daily steroid. We didn't end up doing it though because our Dr. didn't think it was necessary based on our son's specific circumstances. I remember getting a lot of good info off of Dr. Sear's website when I was researching this.
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/8/t080700.asp
I will say that even though we didn't put our son on a preventive steroid I am well aware that wheezing is nothing to mess around with. I had a cousin who died of an asthma attack, and even though our son has had minimal symptoms I am very glad we have the nebulizer and medication in our home.


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## Village Mama

And yes... the numbers should show really good oxygen saturation after having a neb. It is a great sign that he is responding to them. They usually keep us there for a half an hour or so to ensure that the number doesnt drop again. The numbers for us are usually in the high 90s after a treatment too. The scary thing is when they do drop after repeated treatments! I am so glad that you havent had to deal with that!


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## wonderwahine

this is kind of OT, but mamas with dc's who have been DX with asthma, what did it take to get that? ds is officially just "wheezy" sometimes and we have the neb for when he has wheezing or problems breathing when sick, but I want a diagnosis, and my peds in the past have seemed reluctant to do it since he's so young. But I know in my heart its asthma, I'm asthmatic, his grandmother is, my brother and one of his sons have chronic bronchitis and severe asthma, and his other son has mild asthma. So its definatly genetic on my side, and I really want it to be official in his medical records. When I am at the ER anytime and explain the nebulizer, they instantly ask if he has asthma, and I have to go through the whole story about how hes not diagnoised yet and explain his problems, some of the nurses roll their eyes sympatheticly because I'm sure they have come across peds reluctant to diagnois.


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## tsume

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ledzepplon* 
This is so similar to what happened with my ds. Barely had a cold, then bam! Labored breathing. I took him to urgent care and they wanted to transfer him to the hospital because his oxygen levels were so low. But before they did, they gave him the nebulizer treatment and he was able to breathe again just fine.


The same thing happened to our youngest last year. She was 6 months old, fine with a little runny nose. In about an hour she had trouble nursing, labored breathing and was a little rag doll. Scared me straight to our ped (which I NEVER go to, but I was really scared).

Her o2 levels were low, crunchy/wheezy breathing and so limp and lifeless. They did a nebulizer treatment and she perked right up. Our ped said that if P didn't perk up she would have sent us to the hospital.

After that P has gotten bronchiolitis (her official diagnosis) several times. She never gets just a cold or runny nose - she gets full blown, wheezy sick little ball of sadness. But it was never as bad as that first go round. We didn't do the nebulizer after the first time. We do essential oils, chiropractic and herbs at the first hint of that crud.


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## flapjack

We were told that the diagnosis of asthma was wheezing and constricting of the bronchioles which was relieved by the salbutamol/ albuterol medications, wonderwahine. Saying that, we got the diagnosis on the second or third attack, I think?


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## gingerstar

I think many peds are slow to dx asthma here since many little ones "grow out of it" once they grow, and their airways grow. My DD didn't get her dx till she was 4.
Part of it was what VillageMama said - my DD never wheezes, she just breathes less and less... at a low point she will retract, but all along when I'd call the doc they'd be all "is she wheezing?" and other moms would tell me, if she is wheezing, you'd know it! But she never did, and never has, and now from my research I find that some kids don't! But it doesn't mean their form of asthma is any less dangerous.
In our case, it is hereditary - my DH had it, grew out of it. His dad has it. His maternal grandfather had it. His paternal grandfather had it - and two of that grandfather's siblings DIED from asthma attacks as children. So we take it pretty seriously. Also, latest research shows that for some reason it passes through the paternal line; if a man has it, his children have a much higher chance of inheriting it than if a woman has it.


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## kate~mom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wonderwahine* 
this is kind of OT, but mamas with dc's who have been DX with asthma, what did it take to get that? ds is officially just "wheezy" sometimes and we have the neb for when he has wheezing or problems breathing when sick, but I want a diagnosis, and my peds in the past have seemed reluctant to do it since he's so young. But I know in my heart its asthma, I'm asthmatic, his grandmother is, my brother and one of his sons have chronic bronchitis and severe asthma, and his other son has mild asthma. So its definatly genetic on my side, and I really want it to be official in his medical records. When I am at the ER anytime and explain the nebulizer, they instantly ask if he has asthma, and I have to go through the whole story about how hes not diagnoised yet and explain his problems, some of the nurses roll their eyes sympatheticly because I'm sure they have come across peds reluctant to diagnois.

hmmm . . . i don;'t know what it typically takes, but do know that "they" like to call these symptoms reactive airway disorder for a while. afterds's rsv/penumonia hospitalization when he was 10 mo., his ped called it RAD. then last fall when things started going downhill again after the summer, we went to an asthma/allergy specialist for a number of reasons including the breathing. our dr said RAD IS asthma in a prettier package with a bow on top.







so we got a dx around 18 months after seeing a specialist.


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## Village Mama

They didn't give us a diagnosis until there was an obvious pattern either. It seemed like they wanted to stay with the reactive airway diagnosis for a while. One doctor said that the asthma diagnosis can follow them around for too long( later job prospects? Insurance?) and that they like to be sure of it before it ends up in thier chart.


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## widdlelou

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lindsay13* 
My ds also had RSV and was hospitalized for it when he was 23 months. Now whenever he gets a cold it goes straight to his chest. I find that if we use the nebulizer right away then we avoid steroids all together. This is very important to me because steroids are a very harmful medication and he doesn't sleep and acts crazy when he is on them.
I haven't heard many negatives about using a nebulizer, however I haven't really reseached it too well either. I just know I want to avoid steroids as much as possible.


My dd was a noisy breather and then got brociolitis at about 3 months and so it leads to the same time issues. We have a nebulizer and I just love the reassurence of having in the house. Having to have gone to the ER b/c of breathing its not a fun thing and if I can avoid it all together I will. I use it at first onset and then I can avoid the steroids. I hate using the steriods they make her shake and make her act nuts and its just seems to be havioc on her little system. So I am all for early action when it comes to breathing issues.


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## LoveChild421

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Village Mama* 
Lovechild... I agree that you can have really wonderful sucess with homeopathics. We had started off using a homeopath with the boys and were starting to see results. The problem for us was that we spent a lot of money and it is a bit of a process. In the meantime we ended up in the hospital. The doctors and nurses were sccreaming medical neglect and we felt that the best thing to do was to go on the meds. At almost 50 dollars a week for meds per kid, we could not afford to continue with the homeopathy. Just to say that many homeopaths will work in conjunction with the meds. Since we are heading into the cold season though I think it is important to remember that homeopathics( while wonderful) take time and heavy experience to show improvement... and that you don't always have that time to play with. Docs in my experience do not accept homeopathy as a valid alternative...

wow thats a lot of money! Grey's treatment costed $60 for two months of treatment. Modalities vary by practitioner and I also did have one practitioner before I found our current naturopath who I spent far too much money on and never saw results (Grey kept getting sick and ending up on the neb). In our situation, even our ped. advised us to only use the neb when he was sick, so I didn't really have to deal with making the either/or choice. I took Grey to our current naturopath right after he had gotten over the flu and since doing the homeopathics and Chinese herbal remedy he hasn't had any problems with his breathing or lungs at all. He has had a couple colds that just never got into his lungs. The first cold he had after his homeopathic and herbal protocol, I was watching him like a hawk wondering "ok will we need the neb?" I waited and waited and Grey got better in just a couple days and never had any problems.
Grey used to be the kind of child who would really scare you with his wheezing and coughing and I definately agree with using meds such as albuterol to get a child out of the "danger zone" so to speak, but I feel that when you have a child who can't get a cold without having major breathing problems like Grey used to be, then that is a sign that there is some sort of imbalance going on and I had to find someone who could help me find the root cause of it and heal it. I'm lucky to have found the excellent naturopath I have.


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## bobandjess99

My dd has this exact form of asthma as well, and we take a somewhat conservative yet mostly mainstream approach. About the second night after a runny nose/cold, it'll drop down into her lungs and we've got asthma. We have about 1 attack a month in the winter months, none of very few in the summer. About 6 total attacks per year. She has no other "triggers" and is perfectly healthy the rest of the time.
Our protocol is this. During an acute attack, we use the nebulizer, with albuterol and cromolyn in it. For those of you not aware of cromolyn, it acts like a steroid (it is a mast cell stabilizer) but it is NOT a steroid, so it does not have sterois side effects. Dr. Sears calls it a "steroid alternative" for those who really want to try and avoid steroids. Our doc, who is an MD, but specializes in alternative medicine, recommends it. We also have a script for steroids, that we can fill if an attack is not getting better or lasting more than 2 days or so - we have NEVER had to use it. During her worst attacks, we have used the neb up to every 2 hours, but usually, it is more like 2-3 times a day. We have found that giving SERIOUS doses of vitamin C during the outbreak REALLY reduces the time she spends sick. She just had an attack, her first of this season, runny nose started Weds, started vit C weds evening, had a pretty rough night weds, but not actual asthma, massive doses of C all day thurs, and finally, *one* neb treatment Thurs night - woke up fine Fri morning.
Our doc really recommends strengthening the body as a whole, of course, especially eating a massive amount of green vegetables as the main portion fo your diet, getting enough vitamins, exercise,etc. These have really helped as well.

We were also offerred 2 alternative treatments. One is an herbal remedy called "yamoa" that she tried with her own son (also an asthmatic), but said he was allergic to it, so she had to stop it. (We chose not to try it right now, she is too young and too willful to try and get to take a bitter tasting herb every day - pergaps when she is older, we'll give her the option) And also something called UVBI which is hooking you up to a needle thing like an IV, i guess, but instead of putting something in you, it draws some blood OUT, and then it runs through an UV light thing, which does something to your blood to make you healthy. i'm too tired to be more specific, look it up, LOL! She said she gets great results with that on numerous maladies, and her son, if he gets a treatment every couple months, does'nt even have asthma or some of his other health problems. We declined that due to partly my needle phobia and also because it was the first time we had ever heard of it and wanted to research it before we did anything. We might also try it when dd is older, but for now, the "mainstream" meds we are taking are working for us, and we are happy with it.


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## gingerstar

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evie P.* 
Thanks for this note -- this thread surely has raised a lot of passionate voices. I definitely want to try homeopathy based on what you wrote and what one other person wrote above -- I even feel like it would make me feel less powerless to do so.

(One thing almost everyone is leaving out of this discussion is how hard it is to get kids to do the nebulizer, let alone the steroids -- my son gets so crazily wild and upset, and the whole thing turns into a CIO situation, though sometimes I can do it while he is sleeping. With steroids, forget it -- he is on the floor pleading with me not to take it, and then it turns him into a monster once he has taken it.)

But my issue is that I went to a homeopath last year on the recommendation of someone on this forum. He was HORRIBLE -- very mean and abrupt and almost yelling at me because I couldn't keep an 18-mo old boy still in his office for a full hour. I was almost crying in the office and he kept telling me to sit down because he had to tell me more (and everything he said was things I knew, like taking those Nordic naturals gels). He tried to charge me $250 for the visit, and I kind of bargained him down to $200, in tears. And then what he gave us didn't work at all, and it was so hard to get my son to take it. He gave us a small "serving" of it in unmarked paper envelopes so that we'd be forced to come back, and I didn't know what it was so I couldn't keep trying it.

I have no idea how to find a good one, since the one highly recommended on this site (by a local mama) was so terrible in my view. I can't afford such high fees either. I did find a homeopath in one directory who is an MD, and thus who would be covered by my insurance, so I was thinking of trying him though he sounded a bit odd on the phone. If I could find a very trust-inspiring, kind and gentle homeopath here in NYC, I would gladly try it -- if I can afford it.

What a rambling note -- sorry! Just feeling blue from this thread.

I'm sorry we are bringing you down. Asthma is very scary, and it is hard to face.
I would definitely encourage you to do your research, make choices based on facts, not just what we tell you. The National Jewish Med. Ctr. site I linked to is a really good place to start. They even have a hotline you can call and talk to someone.
Also I can totally relate to "how hard it is to do" - my DD has NLD - she is Special Needs, _very_ sensitive, especially to noises, and was much worse at age 4. We had to use the nebulizer for many years because she was unwilling to use an inhaler, even with a spacer, because of the taste. Oral steroids were a disaster, because of the taste. (Orapred is the best tasting, but it must be refrigerated at all times, or it will taste horrible too.)
We had many many times of doing the nebulizer while she screamed, and we had to just sit and hold her, and get through it. It is only CIO if you leave them alone - what we did was crying in arms, we were in it with her, and in my opinion, having seen her literally at death's door, it was completely necessary! It was very hard, but I would do much harder things to keep my daughter alive.
I think this is a passionate thread because we all hate that our children have to struggle with it, but I for one never want you to have to learn it the way I did, being told by a resp. therapist that my daughter came very close to death. Heck, I could tell how close to death she was, and I didn't know much about asthma then.
You cannot keep medicine that will help your child from them when they need it, no matter how much they hate it.
I think it is because of the effectiveness of the medicines today that people do not seem to take asthma seriously, but people die from asthma every day.

I'm sorry to be so harsh. I just want you to realize this is not like, hmmm, should we do abx for an ear infection? This is literally a situation where your child could die. Try homeopathy if you like, but make sure his asthma is controlled.


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## Village Mama

There is such great info on here. Again with the homeopathy... I fully agree with you Lovechild! We were seeing such amazing results on a whole with homeopathy ( not to do with the asthma, but definitely seeing movement happening!) I am definitely a believer. My concerns only came from my experience of trying to find a way to control the asthma naturally when it would have been a better choice to give the western meds priority. If you can afford both , by all means! But if you are in a place financially where seeing a natural practitioner is stretching it, playing it safe with the meds is most likely your best bet. I am one of the last people who would have many good things to say about allopathic medications... this is one area where there isn't a lot of room to be wrong. Taking the meds has allowed us to be stable on a whole... enough to wean off them instead of being in a constant snowballing situation.
It is a great reminder though to go back to the root cause using homeopathy... It is such a wonderful option when you find someone who is truly great in the field. I started to write what things happened when we were doing homeopathy... it was really wild. Soooooo intense. It made a lot of things worse initially..... But soooo worth it in the end.


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## transformed

Hi! I am new here, and trying so desperatly to figure out my sons resperitory issues on my own since I do not have alot of trust in his pediatrician.

He has spent 2 fall/winters sick, since he was 2. (He is 4 now) and basically what happens is that seasonal allergys kick his butt all fall and it gets so bad that his sinuses get infected constantly.

Last winter, he was sick, with allergys, and we ended up taking to an urgent care center because he could hardly move.

They gave us a nebulizer and sent us on our way.

The pediatrician (who I belive is an allergy specialist) diagnosed him with asthma and told us to neb everyday. I did for a little while but then I decied just to do it as needed. I dont want the side effects from the steroids on my young son. Too severe.

I do not know if he has asthma or not. I feel like EVERYONE is being diagnosed with it and I am not so sure. He said he has asthma because of wheezing. thats it-wheezing. I think other things can cause wheezing. (Allergys!)

So my quest is to keep my guy safe and not use the nebulizer as much as possible but I am having a very hard time nderstanding asthma. It seems so vague, and the websites that talk about it dont really seem to treat it as its own medical diagnosis. Its always coupled with something else.

Very hard to understand disease. Is asthma a disease?

Anyways, thats our story!

Jenny


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## wonderwahine

yes asthma is a disease, and allergy triggered asthma is just as dangerous as every other form of asthma.


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## gingerstar

Yes, it is a disease, and if you didn't follow my linky above I'll link it again...
http://www.njc.org/disease-info/dise...hma/index.aspx

And wheezing is the hallmark of asthma. One does not wheeze from allergies.

And again, inhaled steroids act directly on the lungs, where they are needed, and so side effects are minimized. It is vastly preferable to use inhaled steroids via neb than to not use it, then have to take oral steroids which act on the body as a whole, with all associated side effects.

Again I will repeat, you cannot take asthma lightly. My DH is a paramedic, and on his last shift responded to a female in her 30's who had asthma, and had used her neb too late, and/or called 911 too late. She DIED under his hands - her heart stopped. They were able to revive her, she was ventilated, but the doc told them she would be able to come off the vent the same day and should be able to go home the next day. BUT the hospital/doctor was very impressed with the paramedics, because only 2% of asthma attacks where cardiac arrest occurs have a positive outcome.
I was not exaggerating when I said people die from this every day. If your child has asthma, you need to get it under control and keep it under control. Do your research, but take it seriously!


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## transformed

I'll tell you the same thing I told the doctor-I will not medicate my child out of fear. I will take it seriously, but I wont be so scared that I will do whatever the doctors tell me to do.

*Asthma related deaths are extremley rare and most of the occur in poor 3rd world countrys. (80% according to WHO)*

I am reading a great book called "healing the new childhood epidenmics - adhd, asthma, allergies, and autism" Its got alot of great info-I would suggest anyone who is dealing with this check it out!


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## loraxc

Transformed, I think you need to see an allergist or a pediatric pulmonologist. It sounds like you are not communicating with your ped very well about this, and it's vital that you do have good communication with a doctor. I'm confused by the advice to use the neb every day. Albuterol is a quick-acting "rescue" medication to be used when a child is having active breathing trouble. It is used when the child has symptoms, not every day whether the child is fine or not. It is also not a steroid. Are you sure the doctor didn't recommend daily Pulmicort by nebulizer? This IS an inhaled steroid that works as a preventative. You DO take it every day.

As was explained upthread, you should know that if push comes to shove and your DS gets very sick and needs oral steroids (and trust me, if you're in the place where you need this you will not want to refuse this), he will get just as much exposure from one 5-DAY course of that as he would from one YEAR of inhaled steroids...plus the oral steroids have nasty side effects. Inhaled steroids are not absorbed systemically like those taken by mouth.

But it sounds to me like you need more advice on the allergies. It's possible that a mild allergy med such as Singulair or Zyrtec would help your boy. There are also nasal sprays. You could try a sinus rinse, such as NeilMed sinus rinse. We do this twice a day with our 3.5yo and it's really helped. It is is nonpharmaceutical.


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## transformed

I belive what I have is pulmicort. (It is from last winter, I need to check the box) I am concerned with the issues with the teeth that steroids have though.

The ped we see happens to be an allergy specialist but when I asked him to draw blood to test for food allergys last year he got very mad at me and we got in a big fight! (I was convinced it was dairy-which the blood test said it wasnt,







)

I just cant seem to find a doctor who is an advocate for my son, because I am not commited to medicating him daily for the rest of his life. (Especially because the symptoms only present during certain times of the year! kwim?)

I see a link between allergys/asthma and toxins in the enviornment and the friggin doctors dont seem to get it. If they were a little bit more holistic we would be able to play nice but all they want to do is medicate the symptoms!

I need to keep a list of all the things we have tried because offhand I dont remember...I have done all of those medicines but they werent enough.

What I havent done is a strict diet change. Thats the path I am on right now, but I am alone-my dh doesnt really get it either, the link between toxic foods and asthma/allergys.

What do you all do with diet? What has worked? What hasnt?

I just started a thread to get some help on diet, we are totally processed at the moment.


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## zmom

Loraxc -

How on earth do you get your 3.5 year old to use the sinus rinse? (I can barely stand to use the sinus rinse myself!)

I've been trying to think of better things to do to help my DD (allergies and asthma) and the sinus rinse crossed my mind but I can't figure out how to convince her it's a good idea. We're currently doing albuterol as needed, singulair, and zyrtec and are on the second course of oral steroids in the last 2 months. There must be more preventative that we can do but I can't figure out what it is. Our ped says that we're doing all we can do.

TIA!


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## transformed

PS-I am not sure if what he has going on right now is a virual cold, or allergys because his sister started sniffling earlier today too. And I just gave him a dose of pulmicort in the nebulizer and he couldnt finish it he was coughing so bad. The nebulizer brought on the coughing this time and ever since, an hour ago, he hasnt stopped coughing. That seems like a weird reaction to nebulizer, in the past it always helped the coughing.


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## transformed

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zmom* 
Loraxc -

How on earth do you get your 3.5 year old to use the sinus rinse? (I can barely stand to use the sinus rinse myself!)

I've been trying to think of better things to do to help my DD (allergies and asthma) and the sinus rinse crossed my mind but I can't figure out how to convince her it's a good idea. We're currently doing albuterol as needed, singulair, and zyrtec and are on the second course of oral steroids in the last 2 months. There must be more preventative that we can do but I can't figure out what it is. Our ped says that we're doing all we can do.

TIA!

Is that similar to neti pot? I tried it on ds last night but I couldnt get him to do it either. That would work wonders! I am the only one in the family without allergys and I am the only one who uses the neti!









I am curious too, 3.5 yr old!?!?


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## Village Mama

The pulmicort, from what I understand, helps keep the airways open in the long term. The doctors have told me that it won't start working at all for about 12 hours.... but that you should be on the inhaled steroids All through the cold season. I think that the pulmicort was more expensive than taking an inhaled steroid med with a spacer. When we were at our worst we had the boys on a steroid puffer through the cold season only. It had been recommended that we be on it all year long. We wean ourselves off of it sometime in the spring usually. ( this wouldnt be right or recommended for anyone else nessisarily, but it is the choice we made for ourselves against the doctors orders) It sounds as though you havent been prescribed an emergency med at all?
Making the home allergy proof made a HUGE difference for us. A really good hepa vacume, good filters for rooms and furnace, allergy bedcovers, and a stringent washing routine really helped us. The asthma sites usually have great recommendations for this. Paring down on what is in the room that the kids sleep in is a really good idea. Minimalist is good.... think no surfaces for allergens to collect.( we put books in a cupboard that closes tight. We freeze stuffies and pillows for a couple of days every couple of weeks ( only a favourite stuffie in the room allowed type of thing) Sounds strict, but they got wayyyy fewer colds this way and it allowed us to take much less medicine in the long run.
As far as food sensitivities go... we made some big changes in this regard for other health related reasons. I didnt notice at the time . but when it came to gluten up for a test my oldest had a major asthma attack that night. It doesnt hurt to figure out where the sensitivities are in order to help the body function at its best in my opinion. Otherwise we keep the diet super clean... no sugars, dyes, preservatives. The boys take a really good multi daily as well as cod liver oil through the fall winter and part of spring. We keep vitamin C on hand. They take an herbal tincture made especially for them as well that helps with seasonal allergies as well. Otherwise I just try to keep them really nourished, well hydrated and encourage hand washing.

We only had one hospital visit last year.... down from literally dozens. EEp!


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## loraxc

Quote:

Loraxc -

How on earth do you get your 3.5 year old to use the sinus rinse? (I can barely stand to use the sinus rinse myself!)
It's easier than a neti pot, IMO. I have used a neti on myself and I don't think we could do it with DD. She doesn't have to tilt her head like she would for a neti.

Here is how we do it: we prepare the solution and put a bowl in the sink. She gets up on a stool and we clip her hair back. She leans straight over the sink and we squirt the stuff up. She blows her nose. We alternate nostrils till it's gone. When she's done, we make a BIG deal out of what a great job she did and she gets a treat.







: It's a whole-wheat fig bar or sesame halvah, so it could be worse.

It used to make her cough and choke some, which scared her, till I read about a trick where you say the word "Click" and it closes your soft palate to keep the water out of your throat. That works.









It WAS NOT EASY when it first started and we both cried about it several times. We gave up quite a few attempts at the beginning because we were both too upset. However, DD has been really ill with her asthma, sinusitis and allergies and is motivated to do things that will help. She got more used to it the more we did it, and the treats don't hurt (now she sometimes will even say she doesn't need one). It also helped to make a big deal out of "EEWWWW! LOOK AT THE GROOOOOSS STUFF IN YOUR NOSE!" (kids love that). We also got sinus rinse bottles for ourselves, and DH uses his regularly. If she's feeling balky, she will often ask him to do his first. We make a big deal out of how he can't possibly be as brave as she is and she has to cheer him on.









It is still not the easiest part of the day and she still sometimes doesn't want to do it, but it's been worth it for us.

If you could get your DS tested for his allergies, you could do allergy reduction methods at home. DD tested allergic to dust mites and cockroaches (ew, but we live in an old house in the deep South) so we got very aggressive about keeping her room dust-free and baiting for roaches (I didn't use to do this because I don't like the chemicals).

DD also takes tons of C, a multi, and acidophilus. We tried cod liver oil but didn't notice that it did anything.

Quote:

We're currently doing albuterol as needed, singulair, and zyrtec and are on the second course of oral steroids in the last 2 months. There must be more preventative that we can do but I can't figure out what it is.
You're not doing Pulmicort? If you've needed oral steroids twice, please ask about an inhaled steroid! Sometimes general peds are not that knowledgable about asthma. We got nowhere till we saw specialists.

Quote:

I just cant seem to find a doctor who is an advocate for my son, because I am not commited to medicating him daily for the rest of his life.
I am sure not committed to that either--I would love for DD to go off as many meds as possible, and her pulmo is on board for us to try tapering and weaning when it seems appropriate. We have recently stepped down her inhaled steroid and experimented with taking her off Singulair with his blessing.


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## transformed

I feel so lucky to have tile throughout the house. Now if I could only get around to cleaning it and sweeping more than once a year.









Tile makes it easy to be lazy. You hardly have to do anything to care for it, and all the dust pushes into the corners and is easy to forget about.


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## gingerstar

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
I'll tell you the same thing I told the doctor-I will not medicate my child out of fear. I will take it seriously, but I wont be so scared that I will do whatever the doctors tell me to do.

*Asthma related deaths are extremley rare and most of the occur in poor 3rd world countrys. (80% according to WHO)*

I am reading a great book called "healing the new childhood epidenmics - adhd, asthma, allergies, and autism" Its got alot of great info-I would suggest anyone who is dealing with this check it out!

By no means am I telling you to do whatever the doctors tell you out of fear. And I am not scare-mongering - I am just frustrated by people not taking asthma seriously. After seeing my daughter at death's door, literally, she was very close to death, I have learned to take it seriously. I have done a lot of research, and I have fought with doctors. I have found what works for my daughter, and I am not telling anyone else what is right for their child - I am just saying Take it seriously! Do your research! Treat the asthma preventatively, not waiting for attacks to occur!

Every day in America, 11 people will die from Asthma.
http://www.aaaai.org/media/resources...statistics.stm

That is just wrong, in a first world country where we have medicine which can control it.

I am curious what "issues with the teeth" from steroids you mean? My DD has been on inhaled steroids for 5 years, and her teeth are fine. I am not aware of that being a concern. It actually is a bigger concern of developing thrush, and one should always rinse out the mouth afterward to prevent that. Slowed growth is a very valid concern, and we have seen that, but studies show they do regain that slowed growth - we have seen that too.

Also, you need to learn about the medications, when to give them, why you are giving them, when you can taper off or go without and when you can't. Do not expect your doctor to tell you all this; you need to be proactive and do the research and learn how it all applies to and affects your child. You are your child's best advocate!

By all means, look into alternative things; getting rid of our cats (














made a huge difference for my DD, and getting her into swimming also has made a huge difference. A HEPA air filter in her room, also helped. You may find things like that which can really help.


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## transformed

We have a cat. I keep letting it outside hoping it wil run away.









Ds tested positive for cat allergys but we still only notice allergy problems in the winter???

We havent gotten rid of the cat yet, and would proabbly have a real hard time taking a cat with a broken tail.


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## gingerstar

The explanation I was given for allergies is like "the straw that broke the camel's back" - that our bodies can accomodate a lot, but once a certain limit is reached, we cannot take any more and our system is overwhelmed. So one's asthma could be just fine, but if one eats something which is mildly hard on our system (like corn, with my DH - he can't eat it in the fall!) - maybe even something you don't even know is bothersome - and then is exposed to say, a pollen in the air, maybe you still wouldn't see symptoms, but then if you had to ride in a car with a smoker, BAM asthma attack - and you think it is the smoker, but really, you would have been fine with the smoke if your body wasn't coping with the corn and the pollen too. Does that make sense?
We had cats since before kids, so she was exposed all her life, and I kept saying, but if she was allergic to cats, we would know! Well, she is allergic to cats, when we had the testing done it was clear. She could tolerate it most of the time, but then in the spring and fall, she was suffering from seasonal allergies as well, and then if she caught a cold it was straight to the oral steroid, ON TOP of inhaled steroids, singulair, and albuterol every 4 hours. I tried everything, we were down to one cat, regularly groomed (anyone ever tried to bathe a cat?







: YIKES!) but we could not get her asthma back under control. So poor cat had to go... we did find him a home, with a pre-teen who loved him. And she has not had an oral steroid since.







: I hated to have that kind of proof that I will not be able to have a cat.....
Maybe someday.... and DH is so severely allergic to dogs...


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## Evie P.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bobandjess99* 
We have found that giving SERIOUS doses of vitamin C during the outbreak REALLY reduces the time she spends sick. S.

Thanks for these tips -- very interesting and helpful!

What is a massive dose of vitamin C? I use the gummy bears as he will take those but what do you use/how do you get it in?


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## transformed

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...57C0A96E958260


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## Evie P.

Two weeks later and we're in another horrible episode (and as a side note, trying to get through it while Greenwich Village Halloween parade goes on on streets below with the loudest most screaming obnoxious people in the world not caring about DS's asthma!), so I read through all these threads again and suddenly it clicked! Thank you, Mamas. I realize that this is not okay for him to be like this every two weeks, and I am going to try the daily pulmicort (but will try to give him summers off!). I am very scared to do this and just very scared lying beside him breathing so fast even after nebulizers all day. But it suddenly clicked on reading this that he really does have asthma all the time, and it is just being triggered too often, and that maybe it is doing more harm to him to have these attacks than to give him something everyday that could prevent them. How amazing it would be if we could stop them, and I think I could see doing the nebulizer every night after he goes to sleep.

Also trying homeopathy but so far this hasn't worked.

I feel so sad!

But thankful for all the advice, which a few weeks ago I read with much defensiveness and now just with understanding.


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## Village Mama

I am sorry you have to go through this! I wish I could give you a hug.
It really is worth it on the meds... It won't likely be forever. ( we have only had to use the meds twice so far this yearand we havent started the daily meds since last winter yet)
Thank you so much for the update! Let us know how it goes with the meds.


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## flapjack

I'm so sorry you're in this boat too. Stinks, doesn't it? We're still here for you if you need to vent, y'know?


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## kate~mom




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## flapjack

Sorry to hijack, but is there a tribe for asthmatics/moms of asthmatics around anywhere? If not, do we want to go start one? I don't know about anyone else, but I've actually found that talking with Evie has really helped me on my journey, and it would be great to have that support on a more regular basis.
Whaddaya think?


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## WannabeaFarmer

First








Then let me say that I feel like I could bang my head against a wall with my DD's ped. He wont refer us to a asthma doc, wont give her a neb, wont give her anything else except Albuterol and when it doesnt work said that there is nothing he can do for her cause she is only 23mo. I feel like I am talking to a wall.
So hopefully in December I can convince him to do something about her breathing. It seems like DD picks the perfect time to breathe like an angel when we go into the docs office....








I wish you and your LO all the best though.


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## eepster

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jess12808* 
First








Then let me say that I feel like I could bang my head against a wall with my DD's ped. He wont refer us to a asthma doc, wont give her a neb, wont give her anything else except Albuterol and when it doesnt work said that there is nothing he can do for her cause she is only 23mo. I feel like I am talking to a wall.
So hopefully in December I can convince him to do something about her breathing. It seems like DD picks the perfect time to breathe like an angel when we go into the docs office....








I wish you and your LO all the best though.

Can you switch to a different primary Dr who will refer you to a specialist?


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## cushy

My son is 2, and I didn't really feel like I knew what I was doing until the second specialist that we saw. DS also has asthma that's brought on by colds- its not constant. Here's my 2 cents:

First, Transformed- I am under the impression that Pulmicort is a preventative med. If it's not helping your child, maybe they need a rescue med like albuterol, to be used when an attack is already underway.

One of the biggest obstacles for me was figuring out what "wheezing" meant. No one tells you. At first, I thought it literally meant a wheezing noise and labored breathing, which is how my dad would often sound, but with my son it's often just a lot of coughing that could easily be mistaken for a tickle in his throat or post nasal drip- his breathing never seems labored and he's never lethargic. It's only after taking the better safe than sorry approach and giving him the neb with albuterol that I realized it stopped the coughing immediately and he would be fine. Another sign I was told to look for is that little dent at the base of your neck, where the bones come together, when that is sucked in at each breath is a sign of trouble.

Even though I was told to use pulmicort 2x a day at the first sign of a cold, I never do (because I always thinkg he'll be fine this time) and end up needing to do the albuterol much more often. This time around though, I was able to put both meds in the neb, and i've been able to do away with the albuterol if I get the pulmicort into him no more than 12 hours after the last dose. It has made a huge difference. He is not as hyper as on the albuterol, he naps, he's nice. I agree that steroids really bring out the devil in them, but thank god for them.

As for keeping him calm during treatments, right now what works best is to put an extra mask on his favorite stuffed animal and tell him that "Peeby" needs a treatment, and will he do it too? Then every few minutes I'll say Oh, Peeby! in a very sad, sympathetic tone. I think it helps keep the focus off his treatment. Also I'll put on his favorite sesame street video, or read a bunch of books. Sometimes we just have to hold him down though even though he fights and stuggles. It's such a tough situation to be in.


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## Village Mama

When I was in the panic of trying to figure it all out ( imagine trying to figure it out with two kids at once!) I found it really helpful to have an asthma plan all written out. I know up here in BC they have asthma clinics in the major city centers. A specialist will show you proper techniques to give the medication... including tips for when it isnt going right. I also had a plan written out for how many times a day the medication was expected to be given and when. For acute periods, how many times a day to take emergency meds. And a clear written plan of action ( exactly when ) for when I would bring him into emerg. Our emergency room is a 20 min drive away and we were having problems with them sending us home after stabalisation with instructions just to give the rescue meds back to back if need be. ( which is so obviously stupid and dangerous advice) The ped wrote out ( and we laminated) directions for the emergency room staff and for us , that if we used the meds more than X amount of times , in X amount of hours, or if he couldnt speak in complete sentances to come into the emergency ward. He then had clear instructions for the staff to admit him to the pediatric ward and to call him. I also find it helpful to have an extra prescription for the meds tucked away in my wallet.
We were lucky to be given a neb machine that is a travel one ( it is a smaller size... we use it for our main neb) I have a special padded case for it where I keep everything together... meds, tubes, masks, instructions in a zippered compartment. This has been used so many times when we go away from home. Other peoples houses seem to have more allergens and the excitement of travelling always leaves the kids a little run down.


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## flapjack

Has anyone else come across the use of magnesium sulphate to break an attack, btw? a 1yo friend of ours was admitted recently with a first attack, and rather than giving salbutamol back-to-back, after the fourth dose of salbutamol they gave him magnesium something-or-other. Apparently the hospital recognises that hyperactivity doesn't make breathing easier.


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## paula444four

first hugs to you sweet mama! nights can be terrifying.

my 15 month old son continued to have respiratory distress about every 2 months during his first year. It was aweful. After the 4th bout they said he probably had asthma. He was put on xopenex and pulmicort as needed (at the first sign of a cough) via nebulizer at 5.5 months old. We used it ALOT. I cant really say they help him. ITs hard to know but he definitely does not have immeidate improvement on them. Xopenex is fast acting...and pulmicort is slow acting...taking 3 - 7 days for inflammation to reduce.

The last specialist we visited (pediatric allergy /asthma) said he very well may not have asthma..especially since the drugs dont have obvious benefits. If the drugs work...its a confirmation of asthma.

My son is on singular 4mg granules everyday. I dont like it. We are going to do a test or control study on him starting next week. I just want to see where he is at without it. Thats always scary too...hate for him to tumble back into danger...but i just have to know. Hate to have him on a drug he has outgrown the need for.

My overall point here is that...if the drugs help then definitely use them. However if you do not see improvement...question them...and get the opinion of as many specialists as you can afford. I am so sorry you both are going through this. It is scary as hell. Twice a month does seem excessive...and likely to be asthma. Have hope...you will be able to find the right mix of lifestyle changes and drugs so that you can manage his health challenges..and life a normal life! Much love to you and your familiy.


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## gingerstar

Evie, I am sorry he is suffering with this.









I think I understand where you are, it is so hard to accept something so hard for our children. I hope you are able to get him stable and well, once you are in a good place I am sure it will be easier to explore what you need to do, and how you can improve his life, find his triggers, and minimize the meds.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jess12808* 
First








Then let me say that I feel like I could bang my head against a wall with my DD's ped. He wont refer us to a asthma doc, wont give her a neb, wont give her anything else except Albuterol and when it doesnt work said that there is nothing he can do for her cause she is only 23mo. I feel like I am talking to a wall.
So hopefully in December I can convince him to do something about her breathing. It seems like DD picks the perfect time to breathe like an angel when we go into the docs office....








I wish you and your LO all the best though.

Jess, also big







for you. Singulair might be a good thing, dosing starts at 12 months - their site has a thing on "Talking to your Doctor"
here
and Pulmicort in the nebulizer also begins at 12 months.
here

Helen, I think you are absolutely right; if there isn't already a tribe we need to start it. I nominate you our leader!
There is just so much out there about asthma, it is hard to know what to do and who to trust about all this info. I totally think we could learn so much from each other. (Can we start with the mag. thing?







)

cushy, I was told by a respiratory specialist when my DD was in hospital that Pulmicort should not be mixed in the neb. w/albuterol, and the pharmacist I trust agreed. I was told the very most effective way was to do albuterol first, then wait 5 minutes, then do Pulmicort - this allows the albuterol to begin working, to open up the airways, to allow the Pulmicort to be more effective. If you check the literature which comes with Pulmicort, it also says not to mix it. I know some say it is ok, but I want to get the most out of these meds, since I am making my DD take them.


----------



## gingerstar

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cushy* 
My son is 2, and I didn't really feel like I knew what I was doing until the second specialist that we saw.

One of the biggest obstacles for me was figuring out what "wheezing" meant. No one tells you. At first, I thought it literally meant a wheezing noise and labored breathing, which is how my dad would often sound, but with my son it's often just a lot of coughing that could easily be mistaken for a tickle in his throat or post nasal drip- his breathing never seems labored and he's never lethargic. It's only after taking the better safe than sorry approach and giving him the neb with albuterol that I realized it stopped the coughing immediately and he would be fine. Another sign I was told to look for is that little dent at the base of your neck, where the bones come together, when that is sucked in at each breath is a sign of trouble.

... It's such a tough situation to be in.

_(Edited for length)_
Talking about signs and symptoms, I was amazed at some of the signs of asthma, that I can look back and see that we had those long before the dx. Some kids never wheeze - my DD does not. She just breathes less and less.... The National Jewish Medical and Research Center has a great article on them here

Early Warning Signs of Asthma
Early warning signs are experienced before the start of an asthma episode. By recognizing these clues that occur before actual asthma symptoms, early treatment can be started. These signs are unique to each person. Early warning signs may be the same, similar or entirely different with each episode. Some early warning signs may be noticed only by the individual, while other early warning signs are more likely to be noticed by other persons. In addition, a downward trend in peak flow numbers can be a reliable early warning sign. Some examples of early warning signs are:

Breathing changes
Sneezing
Moodiness
Headache
Runny/stuffy nose
Coughing
Chin or throat itches
Feeling tired
Dark circles under eyes
Trouble sleeping
Poor tolerance for exercise
Downward trend in peak flow number
Get a complete checklist of early warning asthma signs
Asthma Symptoms
Asthma symptoms indicate that an asthma episode is occurring. Examples of asthma symptoms include:

Wheezing
Coughing
Shortness of breath
Tightness in the chest
Peak flow numbers may be in the caution or danger range (usually 50% to 80% of personal best)
Changes have taken place in the airways and airflow is obstructed. Individuals with asthma experience some or all of these during an asthma episode. Action should be taken to treat these symptoms before they become worse. Talk with your healthcare provider about having a written asthma action plan.

Return to top .

Severe Asthma Symptoms
Severe asthma symptoms are a life-threatening emergency. These symptoms indicate respiratory distress. Examples of severe asthma symptoms include:

Severe coughing, wheezing, shortness of breath or tightness in the chest
Difficulty talking or concentrating
Walking causes shortness of breath
Breathing may be shallow and fast or slower than usual
Hunched shoulders (posturing)
Nasal flaring (Nostril size increases with breathing)
Neck area and between or below the ribs moves inward with breathing (retractions)
Gray or bluish tint to skin, beginning around the mouth (cyanosis)
Peak flow numbers may be in the danger zone (usually below 50% of personal best)


----------



## loraxc

There was a "moms of asthmatics thread" is Special Needs if someone wants to bump it.

I am here today as a voice of hope. DD was VERY ill all last winter and most of last spring and summer. However, she is doing really well right now!! We seem to have hit on a good combination--for us, it is Singulair ( we tried taking her off this and saw a big change for the worse), Rhinocort nasal spray, Advair 45 twice daily (this now comes in an inhaler +spacer like albuterol or Flovent), Prevacid for her reflux, and, I think most importantly, the NeilMed sinus rinse twice daily. I tell you, I am evangelical about that sinus rinse. I think it it actually preventing her from getting colds--and when DD does not get colds, she really does not get serious asthma.

I know it sounds like a lot of meds, but I am so, so happy with her health right now. It's been two and a half months since her last episode. That is almost unheard of.


----------



## emilysmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
and, I think most importantly, the NeilMed sinus rinse twice daily. I tell you, I am evangelical about that sinus rinse. I think it it actually preventing her from getting colds--and when DD does not get colds, she really does not get serious asthma.

All right, I give up. Please please tell me how you taught your daughter to use/tolerate the Sinus Rinse? My dd is only one or two months younger than you, but I can't do it. She sees me use the Neil Med bottle twice a day. She even does something similar herself. I've taught her to give herself 4 good squirts of an over the counter nasal saline spray, but she needs to tilt her head backwards, instead of forwards for the Neil Med bottle. I tried once to get her to use the Neil Med bottle, and she willingly tried it, but the first squirt really scared her. After that, she insisted that the bottle was "too big". Fortunately, she will do the OTC nasal saline spray, but that's not as much volume as the Neil Med bottle, and I have to go buy the saline every once in a while. (The Neil Med bottle is so convenient because I can make my own powder by myself.)

So please, could you describe to me exactly what you did to teach your daughter how to do it?


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## loraxc

Quote:

Please please tell me how you taught your daughter to use/tolerate the Sinus Rinse?
See post #78 in this thread--I talked about this there.







It is still not easy for us to do, but she does tolerate it.


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## zmom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
It's easier than a neti pot, IMO. I have used a neti on myself and I don't think we could do it with DD. She doesn't have to tilt her head like she would for a neti.

Here is how we do it: we prepare the solution and put a bowl in the sink. She gets up on a stool and we clip her hair back. She leans straight over the sink and we squirt the stuff up. She blows her nose. We alternate nostrils till it's gone. When she's done, we make a BIG deal out of what a great job she did and she gets a treat.







: It's a whole-wheat fig bar or sesame halvah, so it could be worse.

It used to make her cough and choke some, which scared her, till I read about a trick where you say the word "Click" and it closes your soft palate to keep the water out of your throat. That works.









It WAS NOT EASY when it first started and we both cried about it several times. We gave up quite a few attempts at the beginning because we were both too upset. However, DD has been really ill with her asthma, sinusitis and allergies and is motivated to do things that will help. She got more used to it the more we did it, and the treats don't hurt (now she sometimes will even say she doesn't need one). It also helped to make a big deal out of "EEWWWW! LOOK AT THE GROOOOOSS STUFF IN YOUR NOSE!" (kids love that). We also got sinus rinse bottles for ourselves, and DH uses his regularly. If she's feeling balky, she will often ask him to do his first. We make a big deal out of how he can't possibly be as brave as she is and she has to cheer him on.









It is still not the easiest part of the day and she still sometimes doesn't want to do it, but it's been worth it for us.

If you could get your DS tested for his allergies, you could do allergy reduction methods at home. DD tested allergic to dust mites and cockroaches (ew, but we live in an old house in the deep South) so we got very aggressive about keeping her room dust-free and baiting for roaches (I didn't use to do this because I don't like the chemicals).

DD also takes tons of C, a multi, and acidophilus. We tried cod liver oil but didn't notice that it did anything.

You're not doing Pulmicort? If you've needed oral steroids twice, please ask about an inhaled steroid! Sometimes general peds are not that knowledgable about asthma. We got nowhere till we saw specialists.

I am sure not committed to that either--I would love for DD to go off as many meds as possible, and her pulmo is on board for us to try tapering and weaning when it seems appropriate. We have recently stepped down her inhaled steroid and experimented with taking her off Singulair with his blessing.

Thanks Loraxc. We'll have to try the neti pot with her. We both use the Neil Med things so maybe if we can find a kid's neti pot, she'd do it.

No, we're not doing Pulmicort. I've asked the doctor a million different times in a million different ways if there's anything else we could be doing to help her and everytime he says no. What kind of specialist should we see? Allergist? And I thought Pulmicort was for 6+, DD is only 3 is Pulmicort really an option?

Thanks again for the help!


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## kate~mom

pulmicort respules (for the nebulizer) are approved for children as young as 1 yr.


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## emilysmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
See post #78 in this thread--I talked about this there.







It is still not easy for us to do, but she does tolerate it.

Thank you very much for directing me to the correct post, and thank you very much for typing it all out. I really appreciate it.


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## loraxc

Quote:

t. I've asked the doctor a million different times in a million different ways if there's anything else we could be doing to help her and everytime he says no. What kind of specialist should we see? Allergist? And I thought Pulmicort was for 6+, DD is only 3 is Pulmicort really an option?
I'm really surprised he is saying there is nothing else to be done.







Yes, Pulmicort is absolutely prescribed for kids as young as 3 and younger. Tell me again about your DD's history?

My DD sees a pediatric pulmonologist (who also does allergy testing), an ear-nose-throat doctor, and a gastrointestinal doc for her reflux (reflux can be a silent cause of asthma), but her main doctor is the pulmo. Can you ask for a referral?


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## gingerstar

Singulair is also available for kids 12 months and up, and it makes a huge difference for my DD.
HTH!


----------



## emilysmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gingerstar* 
Singulair is also available for kids 12 months and up, and it makes a huge difference for my DD.
HTH!

My daughter's pediatrician prescribed Singulair to my daughter at age 6 months, same for pulmicort and albuterol/xopenex. Since then, I've had second opinions from 3 different allergists (some of them pediatric allergists), and they've been fine with that.


----------



## zmom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
I'm really surprised he is saying there is nothing else to be done.







Yes, Pulmicort is absolutely prescribed for kids as young as 3 and younger. Tell me again about your DD's history?

My DD sees a pediatric pulmonologist (who also does allergy testing), an ear-nose-throat doctor, and a gastrointestinal doc for her reflux (reflux can be a silent cause of asthma), but her main doctor is the pulmo. Can you ask for a referral?

DD is a little over 3. She was diaganosed with asthma at 1.5 or 2 years old (I can't remember now) on a follow up visit after a trip to the hospital with pnuemonia (oddly enough not by our current doctor but by one of the other doctors in the practice). She's had bronchitis 4 or 5 times (generally following a cold), 2 of them in the past 3 months. It generally takes antibiotics and an oral steriod to kick the bronchitis. She coughs if she runs around too much (especially if it's cold). She's on Singulair and Zyrtec and we have a nebulizer for albuterol that we use at first sign of a cough.

We live in one of the highest pollen areas of the country so allergies (even for typically "non-sufferers") are high here. I'm reluctant to take her to an allergist because I had the whole 1,000 post test and allergy shots for years and in the end, I'm not so sure it did any good. I hate to put her through that at this age. That said, I clearly also want to do what's best for her and prevent her from having bronchitis all the time!

Can you tell me more about the Pulmicort - I didn't read anything about it once I read that it wasn't supposed to be for under 6ers. Is it a lower dose for under 6ers or was I reading the wrong literature or what? How does it work? It's delivered through a neb? Can it be used also in a puffer? (We're getting DD used to the puffer as we're often away from the house and thus the nebulizer.)

A puminologist specializes in....? We live in a small town so finding a pediatric one might take going to a larger city a couple of hours away...

Thanks for your help!







:


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## OGirlieMama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
I'll tell you the same thing I told the doctor-I will not medicate my child out of fear. I will take it seriously, but I wont be so scared that I will do whatever the doctors tell me to do.

*Asthma related deaths are extremley rare and most of the occur in poor 3rd world countrys. (80% according to WHO)*

I am reading a great book called "healing the new childhood epidenmics - adhd, asthma, allergies, and autism" Its got alot of great info-I would suggest anyone who is dealing with this check it out!

I mean no disrespect, but it seems to me the reason that more asthma deaths would occur in 3rd world countries is because the people who have asthma in those countries do not have access to medications and nebulizers and healthcare in general. I'm sure if they did those stats would be reduced dramatically.

Evie - I'm sorry your son is still struggling. I know you're in NYC and might not want to travel out of the city (which always seems counterintuitive) but if you would like the name of an excellent pediatric pulmonologist who is on staff at Schneider Children's Hospital in Nassau County, PM me. My girls were preemies and one of them was on a ventilator for her first 2 weeks, and she sees the pulmonologist every few months for follow-ups. (They are both doing great and she only has breathing issues when she is sick). He is fantastic, very kind, and extremely well-respected in the general medical community. I know it might be a PITA to go out of the city, but if you can't find a specialist in the city, it's a good option.


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## gingerstar

zmom,
a pulmonologist is a lung specialist.
Pulmicort is a preventative steroid treatment which is given once or twice daily every day to prevent asthma symptoms. For younger children it is given in the neb as a liquid. It is available in a puffer, but since you just give it at set times it should be ok - we did 7 am, and 7 pm when we needed twice a day - high allergy times, or when she was coming down with something.

My DD was dx with allergies at 10 months, and we did see an allergist (once she was older) to determine just what she was allergic to (cats and hamsters but not dogs or horses, pollen but not mold, etc) so we could help her avoid them, but we declined to do shots. It was very helpful for us to get that information, and the testing was not really that hard for her.

The thing I feel has been most helpful for me is a peak flow monitor - it is a small device one blows into, and the reading indicates how well the airways are working. By tracking the numbers, you can see when they are starting to have trouble, sometimes days in advance of an attack, and you can change your treatment accordingly. My first ped said my DD was too young for one at age 5, but when we switched MDs that was the first thing they gave us, and she did it just fine. If you don't have one, talk to your doc, since it does require a prescription as a medical device. They range in cost, about $12 or so on up to about $50, but the cheap ones work fine. Ins may or may not cover it.
HTH


----------



## loraxc

zmom, I am guessing they haven't given you Pulmicort because they're treating the coughing as the bronchitis, not the asthma...but if you have an official asthma diagnosis and albuterol works, and she coughs with exertion (so does my DD, even when well), I think it should be considered. It's fairly low risk, though there is some evidence it can mildly retard growth. We do seem to be seeing this in my DD.







Fortunately she was big for her age before starting the meds.

Also, allergy testing might help--not for shots, but so you'd know what to avoid.

Is your DD in daycare or preschool?

I am thinking about getting a peak flow monitor, even though DD is not yet 4. Gingerstar, do you think a 4yo who follows directions well could do it? Remember, she does sinus rinses. She's a trooper.


----------



## gingerstar

Absolutely - it is a matter of taking a deep breath, then blowing it all out at once, a sharp WHOOOOOF! into the tube. The most important part is consistency, so you know that the trends you see are true. Generally, the child does three in a row, and you note the best one. To start, we actually charted twice daily. Then we just started noting her best # of the day on the calendar, so we could note trends. For instance, when my DD was in swimming lessons, her # that night was always noticeably higher, which reinforced our thought that it was beneficial. And if they are trending even gradually down, you can look at possible causes - is she fighting off a cold, even w/o obvious symptoms yet? are allergies getting bad? or for my DD, who has always been off the chart for ht/wt, she needed to have her Singulair dose increased - that made a big difference.
*can I just rant for a minute? What are they thinking, dosing by age?? 99% of meds are wt based, and they have to do this by age? ARrrrrgggh! ok...*

Also, we did see mild growth retardation w/Pulmicort, but she is now catching up, and like your DD, my DD was always tall, so now she is tallish average, which I think is fine. Also, there was a long-term study done with Pulmicort which showed that children who began before age 10 had some growth delay, but that they caught up with the control group after age 12. Children who began after age 10 had no delay....let me see if I can find it.

ok, can't find the one I wanted, but here is a pretty good article on WebMD


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## loraxc

Maybe I'll just buy a cheap peak flow meter myself and see how she does. I hink I've seen them sold without an RX on allergy product sites, maybe. Is the main reason they say "not till 5" just because they think kids under 5 can't be trusted to blow their hardest?


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## gingerstar

You know, I never heard a satisfactory explanation for the "wait til 5" approach.
But certainly, your DD sounds like one who might be ready - I know my DD was, and it is a wonderful tool.


----------



## baileyandmikey

sorry, chiming in late... ds and dd both use a nebulizer, but they are both asmathics. but just for a cold, i don't think i would..


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## daniedb

I think we'll get a peak flow meter, too - every site has it as a reference for seeing if the kid is getting better or not.







:

Have we located a tribe yet? Bumped an old one or created a new one?


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## Freeman

Hi - didn't have time to read all of the pp, but wanted to say that I have used plain old saline solution (without meds) in the nebulizer for my son with good results. I took him to the ER last year when he had croup. By the time we got there and he was actually seen, of course, the croup had gotten much better. As I recall, he did get a steroid shot, but the dr. said in the future, try the saline solution in the nebulizer first. (He gave us some individually sealed packets of saline solution).

My ds also had RSV at 4 months old and it seemed like all colds went straight to his lungs for a while. He was also advised to take Xoponex when he was wheezing. Like you, I hated to give him this and really tried to focus on prevention - this was tough, since he went to daycare two days a week (germ cesspool!) However, last winter he really didn't get sick much at all, besides that episode of croup in the fall. I think this was a combination of already having been exposed to a lot (and having built up immunities) and supplements. Do you supplement with vitamin C? I am also a fan of Sambucol for children and Buried Treasure Children's ACF at the first sign of a cold, both of which should be available at your local health food store. Also, plenty of rest, fruits, vegetables, etc. Good luck!


----------



## Evie P.

I've been meaning to write in for ages to say, Yes, let's start a tribe! But I don't know how -- anyone wanna tell me and i'll do it? As long as it will send me e-mails when someone writes, otherwise I'll never remember to check on it unless I'm having some problem myself.

Meanwhile -- I've been doing the daily pulmicort at .25 dose, approved by my ped but not yet by an asthma specialist -- though this was what an allergist told me to do last year (he doesn't have allergies, we found out then).

I've been doing it after he falls asleep at night -- this is always my preferred mode of administering the neb, as he doesn't notice it and i can get it right in. I was going to recommend this method to everyone. I also like the idea that he doesn't know about it and doesn't perceive of himself as sick.

BUT is it possible that this is causing either swollen adenoids and/or restlessness at night? Anyone experiencing this?

Last 3-4 nights -- he has gone back to having what sounds like clogged adenoids, which is what brought us to the ENT doctor in the first place last year -- sleep-disturbing snoring which keeps us all up all night as he endlessly wakes himself up and is weepy and weird. He had it since he was 3 mos and has RSV, and this all led also to the asthma. ENT told us singulaire and nasonex, and this really helped, he only got bad asthma once after we started, then we stopped for the summer. We were not doing daily neb at that time. My ped told us to not do the nasonex now, just the pulmicort, to see if this would stop the asthma. I was relieved, as he goes crazy, screaming and sobbing now, when we try the nasonex (last year he wasn't like that about it).

We have been on a trip last four days, and my mother said she got a cold (we just left her house), so maybe it's just coincidence and he's fighting a cold and not getting asthma because of the daily neb? Or could it be the pulmicort?


----------



## Satori

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evie P.* 

We have been on a trip last four days, and my mother said she got a cold (we just left her house), so maybe it's just coincidence and he's fighting a cold and not getting asthma because of the daily neb? Or could it be the pulmicort?

I'd say a cold, its best to do the pulmocort while sleeping unless your using a mask because long term it can cause cataracts if it gets in the eyes.


----------



## zmom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gingerstar* 
zmom,
a pulmonologist is a lung specialist.
Pulmicort is a preventative steroid treatment which is given once or twice daily every day to prevent asthma symptoms. For younger children it is given in the neb as a liquid. It is available in a puffer, but since you just give it at set times it should be ok - we did 7 am, and 7 pm when we needed twice a day - high allergy times, or when she was coming down with something.

My DD was dx with allergies at 10 months, and we did see an allergist (once she was older) to determine just what she was allergic to (cats and hamsters but not dogs or horses, pollen but not mold, etc) so we could help her avoid them, but we declined to do shots. It was very helpful for us to get that information, and the testing was not really that hard for her.

The thing I feel has been most helpful for me is a peak flow monitor - it is a small device one blows into, and the reading indicates how well the airways are working. By tracking the numbers, you can see when they are starting to have trouble, sometimes days in advance of an attack, and you can change your treatment accordingly. My first ped said my DD was too young for one at age 5, but when we switched MDs that was the first thing they gave us, and she did it just fine. If you don't have one, talk to your doc, since it does require a prescription as a medical device. They range in cost, about $12 or so on up to about $50, but the cheap ones work fine. Ins may or may not cover it.
HTH

Sorry... been away dealing with the stomach flu.









These are great suggestions which I'll look into. Do I understand that the Pulmicort is used daily, long term?

I think the peak flow meter would be good for DD too. She's almost figured out how to do the puffer without the tube so I think she'd be able to do it at least most of the time.

Yes, Loraxc, DD is in daycare - but only 2 days a week. Seems to be 2 enough days for her to catch everything the wind blows in.

I'm still undecided on the allergy testing. The area we live in has an extremely high pollen count - which I'm sure she's allergic to - and we don't have any indoor pets. I'm pretty sure she's allergic to dust, mites, and mold so what more can they really tell me? We do our best to keep the house clean and I can't not let her go outside... (Maybe it's just my traumatic memories of the testing that's stopping me!)

Anyway, we have the rest of November off from daycare and most of December so let's hope it's a couple of healthy months!


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## flapjack

Apparently, Isaac's asthma is now considered "controlled"- he hasn't needed his blue inhaler in a month







Here's passing dilated bronchiole dust to everyone else who needs it.
I started a tribe thread HERE, btw.

zmom, be careful about preventer meds without a spacer: even for adults, it's not commonly recommended because of the issue of oral thrush. Monitoring her peak flow readings and the frequency of reliever medication would help you figure out what she's allergic to (at least, in general terms. Trees/mould/grass, that kind of thing.)


----------



## zmom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 

zmom, be careful about preventer meds without a spacer: even for adults, it's not commonly recommended because of the issue of oral thrush. Monitoring her peak flow readings and the frequency of reliever medication would help you figure out what she's allergic to (at least, in general terms. Trees/mould/grass, that kind of thing.)

Really?! So that's possible with the albuterol? Or just with the pulmicort? Because we aren't on the pulmicort at this point...


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## buzzybuzzard

I wrote a long detailed history with specific questions and lost the post somehow... ugh. long day. anyway, boiled down, the questions were:

4 year old. past three months a bout of what appears to be viral induced asthma (begins with a runny nose, sneezing then progresses to constant painful coughing, sucking air, indented divits, rapid shallow breaths etc). finally got on nebulizer with levalbuteral and pulmicort. tonight he seems to be breathing a little better. miracle. so what do we do now...? give him pulmicort EVERY DAY??? and levalbuteral when he gets an attack? Are we supposed to give him Pulmicort EVERY TIME he gets a runny nose??? How do we stave off these episodes without constant medication???? Please help. We know so little about all this and cant understand why it came on so suddenly. Only a few chest colds in the first three years and then suddenly these horrible attacks every two weeks....


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## buzzybuzzard

What are spacers? we went to an allergist who listened to out sons back for five seconds, said, "hes wheezing- its an asthmatic reaction" and wrote us a prescription and told us to buy a nebulizer. The diagnosis is so unclear it seems- though reading these posts make sit sound a lot like viral induced asthma- and the treatment and long term plan is even less clear.

How can you best avoid episodes during which it is hard for the child to breath AND not have him on constant meds? And what would those meds be anyway? We dont even know if we are meant to keep him on pulmicort or not or for how long or when to start....


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## MusicianDad

Spacers are metal or plastic add-ons that have a holding chamber for the meds. The steps in using an inhaler are such that some people and young children can't do it right without the spacer.


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## Evie P.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *buzzybuzzard* 
What are spacers? we went to an allergist who listened to out sons back for five seconds, said, "hes wheezing- its an asthmatic reaction" and wrote us a prescription and told us to buy a nebulizer. The diagnosis is so unclear it seems- though reading these posts make sit sound a lot like viral induced asthma- and the treatment and long term plan is even less clear.

How can you best avoid episodes during which it is hard for the child to breath AND not have him on constant meds? And what would those meds be anyway? We dont even know if we are meant to keep him on pulmicort or not or for how long or when to start....

It was the mamas on this thread who made me realize that if your child really has asthma, you have to completely shift your thinking. I resisted the daily pulmicort for a year because it was so against my usual no-med way, but these ladies made me realize that it is not okay for a child to be so sick so often, and that the daily pulmicort would be far less injurious to his system than having to take oral steroids and than having to be so violently ill so often.

So we did pulmicort all last winter and it helped a lot. he was sick a lot less often. You have to do it every day for it to work. I do it when he is sleeping and just hold the mask by his face.

Now we are doing homeopathy for the summer, while we are off the pulmicort (you go off for the summer if viral induced usually), and I think it is working at least somewhat because it is the longest he has ever gone without getting asthma -- last summer he was sick a couple of times but this summer not at all. I would look for a really good homeopath if you can and do that, as it seems to at least mitigate the frequency -- we'll see in the fall if it is helping as much once the virus season is here, but certainly it has helped this summer. We went to a couple quacks first, so you just have to really find a good homeopath. If he gets asthma again once the virus season starts, we will go back to the daily pulmicort.

Good luck!


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## Mommy&Will

What a great thread. Its taken me a long, long time and about 4 ER trips to accept my son's asthma and all the meds that goes with it. For awhile, I didn't event connect the word ASTHMA to what was going on. It was just a really bad cold that affected his breathing. Then is was the "weird zone" where nothing could be explained. DS said he had a "laughing problem," was SOOOO cranky - for like 2 years. : ( A trip to a pulmonologist turned up little except a suggestion of a psych evaluation. Diet changes, chiropractors, NAET treatments and finally after the last ER visit a diagnosis of asthma and a wake up call for mama.

I'm still trying to understand his triggers. We've been "managing" it for the past 6 months using Albuterol and Flovent. Its not under control - we are dealing with a flare up right now and he is on an oral steroid (left over from the last ER visit - if I hadn't had that last night we would have been back in ER). I need to now start understanding DAILY meds. Ugh. I actually avoided a lot of threads here on MDC that had all these med terms peppered in it (singulair, flovent, pulmicort -noooo! That is not us!).

Its nice to have a group of other natural-minded mamas that have kids on meds to talk with.

I could not find a tribe, though. Anyone have a link?


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## Satori

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mommy&Will* 
What a great thread. Its taken me a long, long time and about 4 ER trips to accept my son's asthma and all the meds that goes with it. For awhile, I didn't event connect the word ASTHMA to what was going on. It was just a really bad cold that affected his breathing. Then is was the "weird zone" where nothing could be explained. DS said he had a "laughing problem," was SOOOO cranky - for like 2 years. : ( A trip to a pulmonologist turned up little except a suggestion of a psych evaluation. Diet changes, chiropractors, NAET treatments and finally after the last ER visit a diagnosis of asthma and a wake up call for mama.

I'm still trying to understand his triggers. We've been "managing" it for the past 6 months using Albuterol and Flovent. Its not under control - we are dealing with a flare up right now and he is on an oral steroid (left over from the last ER visit - if I hadn't had that last night we would have been back in ER). I need to now start understanding DAILY meds. Ugh. I actually avoided a lot of threads here on MDC that had all these med terms peppered in it (singulair, flovent, pulmicort -noooo! That is not us!).

Its nice to have a group of other natural-minded mamas that have kids on meds to talk with.

I could not find a tribe, though. Anyone have a link?

yep, drugs like Flovent need to be taken DAILY. It sucks I know, my 8 yr old started public school today and even though she only has viral induced asthma now were seeing the pulmo Monday to start her back on inhaled steroids to term and prevent all heck breaking lose when she starts getting sick this year and my 2 yr old will be starting them as well. btw, I cleaned out my pm box as I saw you tried sending one


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## gingerstar

I can't remember if I posted it to this thread but when my DD was dx'd the site that helped me the most, much more than the doctors, was the Asthma Wizard site from the National Jewish Medical and Research Center, which is the leader in lung disease.

It does get better. As children grow and their lungs and airways grow, it does improve.








s


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## Cyann

I guess there's a lot of difference of opinion on this? My son (20 months) has asthma, so far, only induced by respiratory viruses. He's had two episodes so far. After the second one, his pediatrician wanted him on daily Flovent, but an asthma specialist we saw disagreed and said he should only take it at the onset of of a cold or coughing. It's all so confusing, and I find the disagreements very upsetting when we're talking about things like my son's quality of life.


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## Cyann

I should add that the most recent research on the intermittent viral-induced type of asthma my son has does suggest that daily treatment with an inhaled corticosteroid does NOT help in preventing episodes of asthma, or in making it more likely for the kids to do any better in the long run -- contrary to the conventional wisdom. That's why the asthma specialist we saw recommended to use the Flovent only at the first sign of a cold. I had a really good link on this, but can't find it again.







Here's a short summary, though:

http://www.drbarryzimmerman.com/asth...asthma.htm#rev

(Note that this doesn't apply to asthma that shows up regularly/irregularly without a viral trigger -- preventive medicine is effective in reducing symptoms in that case.)


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## Freud

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
My personal call, as I sit here with a not life-threatening viral-induced patch of asthma, feeling like I'm gasping for breath every single time, and wanting to cry because of it, and having real difficulty stopping coughing, and not looking AT ALL like I'm as distressed as I am, is give him the drugs!!!

Seriously, it's a horrendous horrendous feeling, and my breathing is not really any faster than normal. If I were non-verbal no-one would know how horrible it feels.

I completely agree with this. The nebulizer likely saved my life a few times as a child. And it's true that you might not be able to tell when someone is having difficulty breathing. I've had asthma attacks sitting in class and no one has noticed (thank the gods for Albuterol too). Asthma is a serious thing and can overtake a person pretty freakin quickly (within seconds).


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## Evie P.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cyann* 
I should add that the most recent research on the intermittent viral-induced type of asthma my son has does suggest that daily treatment with an inhaled corticosteroid does NOT help in preventing episodes of asthma, or in making it more likely for the kids to do any better in the long run -- contrary to the conventional wisdom. That's why the asthma specialist we saw recommended to use the Flovent only at the first sign of a cold. I had a really good link on this, but can't find it again.







Here's a short summary, though:

http://www.drbarryzimmerman.com/asth...asthma.htm#rev

(Note that this doesn't apply to asthma that shows up regularly/irregularly without a viral trigger -- preventive medicine is effective in reducing symptoms in that case.)

First of all -- can anyone tell me what LTRA is?

Second -- This article is very interesting to read because I have had my doubts about Pulmicort -- last year we started daily Pulmicort (one dose) and it was a miracle for 8 weeks but then we spiraled into worst episodes yet for Feb-May and specialist wants us to do 2 doses per day this fall. We started homeopathy and I see serious results (the guy also cured my h'rhoids!) but of course virus season hasn't started yet. (But last summer he got sick at least once a month and this summer not at all.) Anyway I was just very disheartened about the pulmicort and this study seems to suggest it is kind of pointless for viral-induced? Or am I not understanding it correctly?


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## tmspitz

My son is 2 and has a similar history (viral induced asthma, etc). He has been on pulmicort with a nebulizer, and it helped but not enough so he was recently put on Flovent, with the air chamber/spacer because they thought he was getting more of the medication in the spacer than the nebulizer. We have had a lot of trouble getting him to use the mask. It was MUCH easier to give him. However, he developed a terrible diaper rash (really just on his penis). After numerous trips to the ped and then to a dermatologist, we were told that it is eczema on his penis. The derm kept putting him on a stronger and stronger meds that didn't seem to be working my husband and I realized that it might be because of the flovent (the timing seemed to line up). We took him off of flovent wed, and it has improved drastically (still healing a bit).

Has anyone had a similar situation? What options do we have now?

thanks for any ideas.

Tara


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## JustVanessa

As a person with Asthma, I would medicate my kid at the first sign of distress. It is a horrible feeling to not be able to breath clearly.


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## gingerstar

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tmspitz* 
My son is 2 and has a similar history (viral induced asthma, etc). He has been on pulmicort with a nebulizer, and it helped but not enough so he was recently put on Flovent, with the air chamber/spacer because they thought he was getting more of the medication in the spacer than the nebulizer. We have had a lot of trouble getting him to use the mask. It was MUCH easier to give him. However, he developed a terrible diaper rash (really just on his penis). After numerous trips to the ped and then to a dermatologist, we were told that it is eczema on his penis. The derm kept putting him on a stronger and stronger meds that didn't seem to be working my husband and I realized that it might be because of the flovent (the timing seemed to line up). We took him off of flovent wed, and it has improved drastically (still healing a bit).

Has anyone had a similar situation? What options do we have now?

thanks for any ideas.
Tara

No similar sit. here, but could it be yeast based? My thought is that oral thrush is a common problem with these steroids, that is why the instruction to rinse the mouth after use. Not sure how it could be linked, just wanted to throw that out there for you to discuss with the docs. Kinda sounds suspiciously like it must be linked somehow, IMO.... Hope you are able to eliminate it for the poor little guy!


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## Violet2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gingerstar* 
No similar sit. here, but could it be yeast based? My thought is that oral thrush is a common problem with these steroids, that is why the instruction to rinse the mouth after use. Not sure how it could be linked, just wanted to throw that out there for you to discuss with the docs. Kinda sounds suspiciously like it must be linked somehow, IMO.... Hope you are able to eliminate it for the poor little guy!

IDK, I've taken Oral Steroids for a decade and never had thrush until my DD got it from antibiotics and transferred it to my nipples. And DD doesn't take asthma meds as she is not (knock on wood) asthmatic.

But I think maybe everyone's susceptibility to yeast and rashes is different.

Also for any mommas thinking on skipping meds, for the love of your child nooooo. I have scarring in my lungs. Without inhaled steroids, I would be on disability. Yes, there are risks with treatment, but breathing is so much more important.

V


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## Purple Cat

My 3 y.o. daughter has asthma. She had RSV, was 2 months premature, and emergency problems meant I didn't get the steroids shots to help her lungs before she was born.

My daughter takes pulmicort 2x/day. She had her first asthma attack last May. I couldn't get her off albuterol every 4 hours, and we couldn't get her over the episode without oral steroids. The second month, she had another attack that landed her in the ER. Again, she needed oral steroids. I nearly took her back to the ER the same night and had to get her seen again the next two days.

I'm a newbie to asthma, but my research indicates that uncontrolled asthma is a badie you dont' want to avoid at all costs. Like a PP said, it causes permanent lung remodeling and damage. I don't want her on oral steroid bursts if possible. It took increasing her pulmicort dose to stop the attacks and stop having to give her oral steroids every month.

I am conservative with drugs. But I would consider daily nebulizers a way to avoid further more invasive treatment, unnecessary lung damage and life-style repercussions, and possible death. Nebulizers are your more conservative option. Steam showers for asthma? I think you're courting some serious, serious damage.


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## Evie P.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tmspitz* 
My son is 2 and has a similar history (viral induced asthma, etc). He has been on pulmicort with a nebulizer, and it helped but not enough so he was recently put on Flovent, with the air chamber/spacer because they thought he was getting more of the medication in the spacer than the nebulizer. We have had a lot of trouble getting him to use the mask. It was MUCH easier to give him. However, he developed a terrible diaper rash (really just on his penis). After numerous trips to the ped and then to a dermatologist, we were told that it is eczema on his penis. The derm kept putting him on a stronger and stronger meds that didn't seem to be working my husband and I realized that it might be because of the flovent (the timing seemed to line up). We took him off of flovent wed, and it has improved drastically (still healing a bit).

Has anyone had a similar situation? What options do we have now?

thanks for any ideas.

Tara

First want to mention to the latest posters that you ladies have to read through the whole thread -- it's an unfolding story of revelation! By the end, the original poster, moi, realized that meds are the way. You'll also find answers to all the common questions about asthma in here, as well as links. Overall everyone agrees that you should find an asthma specialist you can really trust if your ped is not helping you develop a good action plan.

BUT I also realized that homeopathy is at least part of the way -- and our homeopath says that asthma and eczema are very closely related. If you supress one, the other one appears. When we started homeopathy, he got asthma much less but had eczema all of a sudden, so we treated that too and it went away.

Our homeopathy experience in a large nutshell -- I went to a bunch of quacks but finally found a good one and we had no asthma from Jun-Oct. Granted, it wasn't viral season, but last summer we had asthma almost once a month. We had our first asthma in Oct before I started any meds (I was hoping the homeopathy had changed our world entirely), now he is on meds and continuing homeopathy, and the attacks seem a little less severe now, I think because of the homeopathy but maybe because he is older also. I highly highly recommend to all you mamas to find a good homeopath, it seems to have helped us a lot. He is on four different remedies, and I really notice a change. Asthma not gone as some other mamas had found, but I am hopeful if we keep up with the remedy, it will be at least less severe -- it is already much less often.


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## Violet2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evie P.* 
First want to mention to the latest posters that you ladies have to read through the whole thread -- it's an unfolding story of revelation! By the end, the original poster, moi, realized that meds are the way. You'll also find answers to all the common questions about asthma in here, as well as links. Overall everyone agrees that you should find an asthma specialist you can really trust if your ped is not helping you develop a good action plan.

BUT I also realized that homeopathy is at least part of the way -- and our homeopath says that asthma and eczema are very closely related. If you supress one, the other one appears. When we started homeopathy, he got asthma much less but had eczema all of a sudden, so we treated that too and it went away.

Our homeopathy experience in a large nutshell -- I went to a bunch of quacks but finally found a good one and we had no asthma from Jun-Oct. Granted, it wasn't viral season, but last summer we had asthma almost once a month. We had our first asthma in Oct before I started any meds (I was hoping the homeopathy had changed our world entirely), now he is on meds and continuing homeopathy, and the attacks seem a little less severe now, I think because of the homeopathy but maybe because he is older also. I highly highly recommend to all you mamas to find a good homeopath, it seems to have helped us a lot. He is on four different remedies, and I really notice a change. Asthma not gone as some other mamas had found, but I am hopeful if we keep up with the remedy, it will be at least less severe -- it is already much less often.

Evie, I'm glad you've worked through Asthma 101. As far as the asthma free period, be vigilant. It's way too soon to declare success. Asthma can change. It can ebb and flow, it can switch symptoms, so keep a very very sharp eye out.

I went 7 years without an episode. Ditched my pulmonologist and just used my PCP to keep up the meds. Then I went to Europe, was exposed to some new germs, missed 2 weeks of work and was damn near intubated. It was a sobering, sobering lesson to always be prepared.

V


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## Evie P.

Hello - Wanted to tap the asthma moms about this --

Because of my son's viral-induced asthma (that spawned this thread!) and because lately we wake up itchy and sneezy, I decided we should put dust mite covers on the pillows and comforters (they are down). But I just spoke with fellow at allergy buyers club and he said the likelihood of dust mites at this time of year in New York is kind of small and I should instead go with an air purifier.

He said his son was off the inhaler 6 weeks after they got the air purifier. But that I had to get the IQAir one, which is like 700 bucks.

I'm wondering if you asthma mamas have found air purifiers to help itchy skin as well as asthma, and if so, if it's necessary to buy the IQ Air one. And what about the mite covers?


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## Village Mama

We have the regular General Electric hepa filters in our house. We actually have two now and run one in the boys bedroom and one in the playroom. It really really helped us. On top of that though we do frequent washing, freeze the pillows for 24 hours every couple of weeks to kill the mites... as well as frequent vacuming. I really think that the hepa filters worked well for us. We use a type that costs around 100$ -150$.
Is the one that he is trying to sell you a whole home one? How many square feet does it cover? Are the filters easily obtainable( and how often and how costly are they to replace?)... those would be the questions that I would be asking. A friend gave us a400$ machine that she was finished using but the filters cost 150 bucks and we can't afford to get them right now. It's square footage is higher though and would cover almost all of the house.


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## Evie P.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Village Mama* 
We have the regular General Electric hepa filters in our house. We actually have two now and run one in the boys bedroom and one in the playroom. It really really helped us. On top of that though we do frequent washing, freeze the pillows for 24 hours every couple of weeks to kill the mites... as well as frequent vacuming. I really think that the hepa filters worked well for us. We use a type that costs around 100$ -150$.
Is the one that he is trying to sell you a whole home one? How many square feet does it cover? Are the filters easily obtainable( and how often and how costly are they to replace?)... those would be the questions that I would be asking. A friend gave us a400$ machine that she was finished using but the filters cost 150 bucks and we can't afford to get them right now. It's square footage is higher though and would cover almost all of the house.

Thanks for your reply -- the guy at the allergy buyers club was telling me that only the IQ filter takes out certain allergens that none of the others do. He said the filters would cost me about $100 a year, but the unit itself is really expensive. I believe it covers 500 sq ft or a bit more but we live in a duplex apt, so we are just planning to use it in our bedroom area (upstairs) and maybe bring it down sometimes for living floor.

Can you possibly be a bit more specific about how it helped? Did it reduce the frequency of illness/asthma? Did it reduce the severity?


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## Village Mama

Sorry I missed your question!

The hepa filters SEEMED to lower the whole allergen load which in turn appeared to help the boys immune systems. They got fewer colds because they werent already overloaded with allergies.... less hospital visits. My oldest guy tested very allergic to dust mites and he also has really awful hayfever. If we neglect turning the fliter on for a day or two he gets sneezing attacks( even worse during hayfever season. His room with the filter on and windows shut is the only place that he finds comfort during certain pollen dense months). He sneezes a dozen times at a time rapid fire. I think that the filter worked really well with other allergy reducinig techniques. I would use your gut on this one. I know that my cheapo filter didn't do anything extra fancy and it still helped. Even though it helps I wouldn't go out now and buy an even better one.
We did luck out on a top of the line vacume though with a hepa filter. A good vacume helps too. We got one that was practically brand new from a couple that was moving out of the country for a very low price. They can be super expensive too though.
Do you still have pets? Carpets? Do you live in the city? How is the air quality otherwise?


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## HQ Fishkiller

DD is 16 mos. and has viral induced asthma. She has never had issues badly with it enough to have to use a nebulizer. I do have an albuterol inhaler for her when she starts to wheeze or cough chronically, but we rarely have to use it. For right now she is seeing an asthma/allergy specialist twice a year who is in agreement with the pediatrician who put her on the albuterol in the first place. So far it is all I've had to use but the asthma specialist did say she would recommend Singulair if DD's asthma worsened. Have you thought about getting an air filter for the room where your LO sleeps it may help?


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## jdedmom

My 8yo son has severe asthma. He has been miserable all week. We took a trip to the er at 2am Wednesday and he's been out of school all week. He was diagnosed with broncitis. He does Abuterol through the nebulizer when he is struggling and Pulmicort everyday when he is doing well. Per our allergist we get him a flu shot every year to try an prevent the worst. Do your children get flu shots?


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## mysticmomma

I'm going to come back to this thread and reply to a lot but wanted to throw in something pretty quickly. I have two kids with RAD and we sometimes use the nebulizer with plain saline and that helps a lot more than the showers do at times. I've also found that my kids never tend to completely heal until we do the pulmicort. If I didn't have a nebulizer at home, we'd be spending a lot of time at the hospital. As someone with asthma myself since I was a baby (I'm now 28 or 29... don't remember!), seeing my kids struggle for breath is very scary. I try to remember a few basic things that usually stops me from running out to the er at 2am.

1. color
2. abdominal retraction
3. hydration
4. moisture
5. it's always worse at night

Sometimes, if we can just keep the kids eating popsicles in a moist/warm atmosphere and hang on through the night, they get much better. I also have a stethescope at home which just brings me a little more peace of mind. We have a treatment step-plan that does include albuterol, pulmicort or xopenx when needed.

No flu shots. EVER.


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## WuWei

Warning, I am evangelical about Classical Homeopathy.

There are many alternatives to enhancing your child's health and asthma status. We use classical homeopathy and this has basically cured my husband's asthma. Dh was on Benedryl and Proventil every four hours and Claritin and Advair daily, due to allergy induced asthma. He is highly allergic to all air borne pollen: all tree, grass, weed, mold, dust, mites, cat dander pollen, etc. He couldn't be outside for about 6-9 months of the year due to red, runny eyes, sneezing and wheezing and debilitating asthma.

Eliminating these allergens is important, especially in the bedroom. Obviously, some of them can't be eliminated and he would have significant asthma issues each spring and fall. *However, since being on classical homeopathic remedy for five years he hasn't had any asthma in over four years. None.* And he no longer takes the Benedryl or Proventil (albuterol). Now he never has these issues and only uses Claritin sporadically and the Advair daily. And no more asthma!

We use large doses of vitamin C and Sambucol (for Kids or Adults) which has echinacea (some asthmatics have problems with echinacea). Hydration and humidification (with an aseptically clean humidifier) help to decrease mucus production during colds/flus. A key issue is to identify any dairy or soy allergies and eliminate them. Because these allergens combine to cause severe mucus production when the immune system is under assault of colds/flus.

You might request a prescription for nebulizer treatments, for as needed use, at home with either *saline* or albuterol. Then you can keep ahead of the asthma issues so that emergency room visits are less likely to develop. I don't agree that they cause "rebound swelling". You can get that with steroids, however. Albuterol brochodilates, it opens the airways. The spasmadic coughing can _cause_ irritation, swelling, and mucus production to lubricate the irritated airways. I'd always error on the side of MORE albuterol, avoid steroids. Albuterol is a transient drug, compared to the systemic effect of steroids. Although, many folks do not find as effective of therapy from the inhaler, as compared to the nebulizer. *I'd embrace using the nebulizer proactively to PREVENT the irritated, swollen, secretion filled airways.*

I have not researched NAET or TAT; but I have heard that they have also been found to help allergies and subsequent asthma.

We don't vaccinate. We support our immune systems, rather than artificially assault them. Originally, I might add, the vaccines were tested on healthy adults and subsequent small studies on healthy children. I don't know the actual number of asthmatic children that the vaccines have been experimented on. Most conclusions about safety and efficacy for compromised patient populations are extrapolated from "post marketing research". Which means our children.

You might try the new nasal wash X-clear. It only has water, xylitol, saline and grapefruit seed extract. The xylitol is a natural antibacterial, and the grapefruit seed extract is a natural anti-inflammatory.

I assume that you are keeping the windows and door to the bedroom closed to keep out allergens and consider a HEPA air filter. And no stuffed animals except for a bedtime lovey which is washed frequently. Eucalyptus helps to open the nasal passages too. Vit. C decreases runny noses, in large doses.

1. Decrease allergens, especially food allergens. (dairy, soy, wheat, eggs and citrus are the most common)

2. Keep bedroom allergen free with HEPA filter. (no pets, limited stuffed animals, door closed at all times, plastic cover on mattress, vacuum daily)

3. Vitamin C mega doses (I can't proscribe, of course) I give ds 1000mg, 3x day with first sniffles.

4. Sambucol for Kids (intensive dose, tsp 4x/da) caution with asthmatics some are allergic to echinacea.

5. Consider classical homeopathy, NAET, TAT as alternative therapies. Investigate now. (Homeopathy cured my husband and friend's asthma and resolved many of our son's food intolerances.)

6. Avoid steroids like the plague.

7. (We are a totally non-vaccinating family, thumbs down to flu shots)

8. Humidifier in his room for sniffles, scrupulously clean. Clean daily with vinegar.

9. Avoid antibiotics like the plague.

10. Avoid benedryl-dries mucus membranes

11. Avoid allergy shots

12. Consider saline nebulization instead of albuterol for loosening secretions, requires physician order. Doesn't cause the jittery feeling and doesn't taste as bad. This is the first line hydration that I'd recommend.

13. Consider steroid inhaler for prophalaxis, year round (medical model)

14. Adding coconut oil, cod liver oil, magnesium, probiotics, vit C, zinc. The probiotics to focus on for a baby are bifidum bacteria. These are important for healing the gut, which is 70% of the immune system.

Oh, and dh was severely allergic to cats, we only had one outdoor cat; and now we have 5 cats which sleep on our bed!

AND, my friend was on serious drugs for migraines for years, until classical homeopathy. And another friend's daughter was scheduled for tubes to be inserted in her ears until classical homeopathy finally cured what 5 rounds of antibiotics couldn't. She was just 8 months old.

We have always just purchased a top of the line HEPA air cleaner from Sears. That way we know they'll have the filters available long term. We have two of these:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...d=air+cleaners

And we bought this vacuum cleaner. It is rated as a "best buy" by Consumer Reports. It has a HEPA filter built in:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...re+progressive

And for a mattress cover, we bought what they have at Walmart. It is sorta paper-cloth and keeps mites out. Get them for the pillows also. They are washable.

HTH, Pat


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## Village Mama

Fantastic advice... all in one post! That was pretty much the path we took as well!


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## WuWei

In the past year, Merck & Company, Inc. has updated the patient information for Singulair to include these postmarketing adverse events: tremor, depression, suicidal thinking and behavior (including suicide), and anxiousness.
http://www.fda.gov/cder/drug/early_comm/montelukast.htm

Pat


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## allgirls

moved.


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## mineral26

Hello All,

I am new to the community and I found some really useful info here about asthma medications. I have a 2 year old toddler and his ped put him on pulmicort for the winter...he has had 2 wheezing episodes (before the pulmicort), and when he gets a cold, we start him on albuterol immdly. I was concerned about giving him these meds regularly and I chanced upon this thread. Has anyone tried Hylands homeopathic ? They have a cough syrup and tablets for when kids get a cold..I have tried the cough syrup and so far I think it works..although I sometimes get confused whether its thealbuterol or the hylands cough syrup thats doing the trick..just wanted to throw this out there and see if any of you have any feedback on using alternative medicine (homeopathy or any other) as a means of controlling asthma symptoms...

Thanks!!


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## mbbinsc

Mineral26, Thanks for bumping this thread. I had not seen it before. My 3yo DD has IgE food allergies and gets viral asthma. We are coming off an episode this week (and I can tell you the kid who coughed on her last Saturday at DSs school event!). She cannot use the Hylnad's homeopathic remedy due to lactose sugar (dairy allergies). I have used a Magnesium lotion this episode, along with nebulizer for xopenex and pulmicort at first sign of cold. The wheezing has not been so bad but she has felt terrible. I had not seen Pat's e-mail and am going to up some of her supplements. Welcome to the board.


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## Evie P.

Hi, Mamas -- OP here -- There are a LOT of posts here about homeopathy, including some recent ones from me, as homeopathy has greatly mitigated viral-induced asthma in our house (also the Swissair humidifier seems to be reducing sickness episodes!). It didn't help until I found a good homeopath, and there are lots of quacks out there, but since I found a good one, it really seems to help. Sicknesses are far less frequent and less severe. I do drops and pellets, one set for morning, one for night, and my son loves to take them. Our homeopath said it would take at least a year of the remedies to END the asthma, don't know if this is true that it could end it but I do see a remarkable change since we started it. And there are a bunch of posts on this thread that discuss the amazing effects of homeopathy. So read through the whole thing and you'll find it!


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## sedalbj

Hi all, I have gotten to page 4 of this thread and learned a lot. Need some advice.

DD (5) had cold induced breathing trouble once the winter she was 2, again once age 3, once age 4, and yesterday. So this is 4 times in 5 years. And it isn't with all colds (obviously). The cold she had this time was one day of stuffy nose that I hardly noticed, this winter it was a big cold.

The first 2 times I though it was lots of goo in her lungs from drainage, but this past winter (episode #3) I took her to the dr and he gave albuterol syrup. Of course, it was pretty much over when we got there, so i never got the prescription filled. Yesterday I got it filled, and the drug information sheet says 'this medication does not work immediately and should not be used for sudden attacks of breathing trouble'. Well, looking back over the day i realize it wasn't sudden, it just got worse in the evening and i didn't pay much attention during the day. So, anyway, i gave her 1/2 tsp (the dosage says 3/4, but it was 8pm and i wanted her to sleep, she slept restlessly all night, and the albuterol didn't help her breathing). So, this am we are going to the dr.

What should I ask for/expect? It is definitely cold induced, and happens once or twice a year. Do I just need some sort of emergency thing? Help? This thread has lots of info for more frequent asthma problems, but that isn't us. Hugs to all the mamas who have to deal with this.

I have never seen an asthma attack, only know one person who has asthma, and DD hasn't been diagnosed with it. But, reading here, I am pretty sure that is what she had. Of course, by the time we get there this morning, she will be almost fine. And I don't want an official 'diagnosis', just a drug that would help her breathe.


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## WuWei

bumping.

Pat


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## paakbaak

i didn´t see this one before putting mine up. great info!

what about thyme EO? maybe on feet (sole), spine or chest or eucalyptus?


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