# I left my child out in the cold. Was it wrong?



## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

I had an angel of a child until 2.5 yrs came along. Now she's testing every limit she can.

I picked her up from my gramma's house to take her home. She refused to put her socks and shoes on. Both of us tried and she kicked and screamed and we couldn't do it. I tried talking calmy to her, etc. Didn't work. I told her, "Fine. No shoes or socks"....and I plopped her bare feet on the ice cold porch. 5 seconds later, she decided to wear socks and shoes and that was that.

Once home, she didn't want to put her coat on to walk to the house (no coat in car seat. Huge pain in butt....but safety first!). I told her, "If you don't put your coat on, you can't get out of the car. You can sit here all day as far as I'm concerned. I'm going to leave. Are you going to put your coat on?" She still refused. I shut the car door and hid by the trunk. Went back 10 seconds later and then she decided to wear her coat, no problem.

THEN....."I don't WANT to walk." My back hurt, I had my hands full, she is HEAVY and there was absolutely NO physical reason why she couldn't walk! I told her I wasn't carrying her, that my back hurt. I took her out of the car and stood her up on the side walk. I walked into the house and waited for her by the door. It was cold outside (not FREEZING cold....but cold). I timed her. It took 7 minutes of whining and throwing a fit before she walked her happy butt in the house. I met her at the door and she said, "I need a hug", which she got and I told her I loved her, etc. After that, she was happy and gave no more problems the rest of the day.

What I did, worked. But was it wrong? She IS getting too heavy for me to carry all the time. Her daddy is a push over (and stronger) and he does carry her in a blanket....buy mama can't (My knees hurt carrying her up the steps and my back hurts).

Yay or nay? Is there a better solution to her testing these things?


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## BaBaBa (Jun 30, 2007)

right or wrong I've done the same


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## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BaBaBa* 
right or wrong I've done the same

Good to know







Thanks.

I feel guilty over it sometimes. I *can* carry her. But it's completely inconvienent and painful at times. If she's too tired, not feelng well, etc...I will carry her. There is a difference in her voice of "I don't WANT to walk" and "Mommy will you please carry me?" I can tell if she's just being rotten (only word that comes to mind, don't take offense) or if she genuinely needs mama to carry her. That make sense?


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## stik (Dec 3, 2003)

You let her to test the natural consequences of her choices and you set reasonable limits. You did great.


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## Katie T (Nov 8, 2008)

As long as its not too cold or hot out Ive done the same. I always watch them the entire time but eventually they quit throwing a fit & come on inside.


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## TanyaS (Jun 24, 2003)

I bide my time until winter to let natural consequences teach my kids to leave their shoes on in the car. I would never do it in the summer because it's so easy to damage the skin. The winter here is mild, but cold enough that they want to leave their shoes on until we get home after walking up the sidewalk to the front door barefoot once or twice.


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## Straggletag (Dec 4, 2009)

You have needs, too, such as your aching back. If you overextend yourself to accommodate her, you only teach her that other peoples' needs aren't really limits for her, they aren't as important as her desires. As for getting her feet cold, well, that's the definition of a natural consequence. Whether letting her enjoy the feeling fits with a given philosophy or not, that's literally the way of the world, it's not some caprice of man. Just be prepared for the day that she takes some "awful" natural consequence in stride. I frequently went out to play on the porch barefoot when snow was on the ground. I didn't mind cold. I also surprised my grandparents at 7yo by streaking past them fully clothed and jumping in the swimming hole when I'd forgotten my swimsuit. Apparently our notions of natural consequences differed. (Well, I didn't enjoy the sopping wet car ride back, but then I probably would have simply learned to swim naked next time.)


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## jeliphish (Jul 18, 2007)

I have done the same exact thing. I think it's a good example of natural consequences.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

I have done a similar thing in a similar sutuation. I think you handled the situation well. Ds is now 4 and he is warm all the time, wants to wear shorts and a t shirt and no jacket outside. We got tired of asking him to wear pants or wear a jacket so now we have decided to let him wear whatever he wants. He picked out a new winter coat and now wears it over his shirt and shorts outfit. He calls his shorts 'snow shorts'.


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## littlecityfarmer (Apr 27, 2004)

Natural consequences get results! I generally don't argue about the kids clothing choices, but I do make suggestions for alternative outfits if one of the kids' choice of attire is drastically inappropriate for the weather (snowpants and gloves in summer, bathing suit and sandals in winter-- it happens in my house







.) If they insist on wearing something silly, I bring along more appropriate clothes to change into when they start complaining about being cold/hot/uncomfortable. They usually figure out pretty quickly that there are reasons for wearing a coat, boots, and long pants when snow is falling...


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

I don't think what you did was harmful, but I think it can be approached in a more gentle way. "You don't want socks and shoes? OK, let's see what it's like when you walk without shoes and socks on."

I get the frustration that you were feeling and I've done similar things ("fine, don't put your coat on!") but I never feel good about how I've approached it. When I approach the natural consequences more neutrally, it becomes more about teaching my child "this is why we wear these things" and less about the power struggle.

A reminder too, that 2 and 3 year olds often need to physically experience something before they understand it. So, letting her experience the cold is a good idea, as long as you do it safely like you did. This realization also helped me not take it too personally.


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

I've done it and it wasn't even a big deal or a punishment. Just like, "let's go, put your jacket on" "I don't wanna" "Fine, let's go" - we walk out the door and I'm carrying her jacket - "do you want it now?" "yeah".

Like PP said - kids don't have the experience to base these decisions on. They just know they are comfortable "now" but don't have the ability to look out the window and say "wow, it's cold out there... I WILL be cold when I open that door." All they know is that they are fine NOW, in the house/car/mall/wherever, and have no desire to put on the coat.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

What you did was fine. I thought I was going to read about how somebody put their child outside in the cold as a punishment (like "time out" on the back porch in the winter) and was ready to point out all kinds of GD tips, what MDC is about, etc.

You were already outside with her, and she was uncooperative about coming in, so she stayed outside until she was ready to walk in by herself (and you stayed near enough to be supervising her.) 100% acceptable in my book.

The only thing I would have done differently is to have NOT gotten into a power struggle about wearing her coat before she left the car. I would have said "It's cold outside. I'm wearing my coat before I leave the car. I think you should do the same thing. If you don't want to wear your coat, you need to carry it into the house."


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## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LynnS6* 
I don't think what you did was harmful, but I think it can be approached in a more gentle way. "You don't want socks and shoes? OK, let's see what it's like when you walk without shoes and socks on."

I get the frustration that you were feeling and I've done similar things ("fine, don't put your coat on!") but I never feel good about how I've approached it. When I approach the natural consequences more neutrally, it becomes more about teaching my child "this is why we wear these things" and less about the power struggle.

A reminder too, that 2 and 3 year olds often need to physically experience something before they understand it. So, letting her experience the cold is a good idea, as long as you do it safely like you did. This realization also helped me not take it too personally.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 
What you did was fine. I thought I was going to read about how somebody put their child outside in the cold as a punishment (like "time out" on the back porch in the winter) and was ready to point out all kinds of GD tips, what MDC is about, etc.

You were already outside with her, and she was uncooperative about coming in, so she stayed outside until she was ready to walk in by herself (and you stayed near enough to be supervising her.) 100% acceptable in my book.

The only thing I would have done differently is to have NOT gotten into a power struggle about wearing her coat before she left the car. I would have said "It's cold outside. I'm wearing my coat before I leave the car. I think you should do the same thing. If you don't want to wear your coat, you need to carry it into the house."

These tips are very helpful, thank you. I was very tired that day and my patience was thin. I will be more mindful the next time it comes up and keep these tips in mind


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## SweetPotato (Apr 29, 2006)

I wouldn't leave my child alone in the car-- but I wouldn't make her wear a coat outside, either. It gets REALLY cold here, and I still refuse to have the coat issue become a power struggle (which drives my mother insane and gets me all sorts of nasty looks from strangers) Kids are smart, and real cold hurts- she'll put it on if she's uncomfortable, and if not, the short walk from the car to the house without it isn't going to result in any serious damage.


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## Jennifer Z (Sep 15, 2002)

With my 3yo I have done the same thing over the years (once she was old enough to understand and there was no real danger) and it works, and it isn't demeaning or punitive, but teaches the "why".

Just a warning though...if you have a child with a disordered sensory system (like autism or SPD), this isn't going to work at all because the cold might not bother them, even when it is dangerous cold.


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## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

I would not leave my 2.5 year old alone in the car. I would not hide from them to see if they were going to comply. If my hands were full, I'd leave my packages and carry my kid in first.

If I physically *could not* (not just me being pissy because I don't feel like it and I'm unappreciated by my toddler) carry my child in, I would sit and wait with her until she could walk.

I was injured birthing and it caused excruciating pain to carry my newborn. I got used to sucking it up, so I decided to carry her until she was done.

Mine wasn't done at 2.5. I give my 9 year old piggy back rides up the stairs to bed sometiimes.

My sympathies on your ill health, OP. I hope you recover soon. My goal is to model cooperation, compassion and caring, so this sort of moment is a time for me to do that.

If you feel good about how you handle it, it probably works for your family. If you don't, it may be a message to you to find a way to meet your need and her need at the same time, rather than creating conflict.


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## Eherrera329 (Nov 29, 2009)

Sounds like something I would do. I think what you did was good. The I need a hug thing was cute


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## AnnieNimIty (Nov 14, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stik* 
You let her to test the natural consequences of her choices and you set reasonable limits. You did great.











I think you did a great job also. Natural consequences always work better than ones we make up.


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## noah's mom (Jan 3, 2006)

I've done similar things with 4.5yo DS1, and just this morning with 2yo DS2 - he took his boots & socks off in the car on the way to daycare this morning. I reminded him that he needs to leave his boots/socks on in the car when it's cold out, then carried him inside barefoot - the 30 seconds it took was PLENTY of time for him to "get" the natural consequence, considering the air temp was -4 degrees this morning!


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chfriend* 
I would not leave my 2.5 year old alone in the car. I would not hide from them to see if they were going to comply. If my hands were full, I'd leave my packages and carry my kid in first.

If I physically *could not* (not just me being pissy because I don't feel like it and I'm unappreciated by my toddler) carry my child in, I would sit and wait with her until she could walk.

I was injured birthing and it caused excruciating pain to carry my newborn. I got used to sucking it up, so I decided to carry her until she was done.

Mine wasn't done at 2.5. I give my 9 year old piggy back rides up the stairs to bed sometiimes.

My sympathies on your ill health, OP. I hope you recover soon. My goal is to model cooperation, compassion and caring, so this sort of moment is a time for me to do that.

If you feel good about how you handle it, it probably works for your family. If you don't, it may be a message to you to find a way to meet your need and her need at the same time, rather than creating conflict.

I don't agree with this. I don't think it does kids any good when we suck it up and ignore our own pressing needs, in order to comply with their passing desires. I'm of course all in favor of meeting a child's needs, and when their pressing needs conflict with mine, I would most certainly put theirs first. I endured 16 months of raging ulcerative colitis, in order to nurse my twin babies, so I know what sucking it up means. But a child well into the toddler years is old enough to start coming to the awareness that other people have needs and limits, and that a family is about respecting one another.

I agree with most of what the OP did. I don't think I would have required the child to wear the coat, because going outside without the coat would have done the child no harm. But otherwise, I think the OP handled it just fine.


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## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chfriend* 
I would not leave my 2.5 year old alone in the car. I would not hide from them to see if they were going to comply. If my hands were full, I'd leave my packages and carry my kid in first.

If I physically *could not* (not just me being pissy because I don't feel like it and I'm unappreciated by my toddler) carry my child in, I would sit and wait with her until she could walk.

I was injured birthing and it caused excruciating pain to carry my newborn. I got used to sucking it up, so I decided to carry her until she was done.

Mine wasn't done at 2.5. I give my 9 year old piggy back rides up the stairs to bed sometiimes.

My sympathies on your ill health, OP. I hope you recover soon. My goal is to model cooperation, compassion and caring, so this sort of moment is a time for me to do that.

If you feel good about how you handle it, it probably works for your family. If you don't, it may be a message to you to find a way to meet your need and her need at the same time, rather than creating conflict.

I appreciate your response but I also disagree with you on this.

DD broke her leg in July/August and had a cast for 6 weeks. Obviously, I had to carry her all throughout that time. I never had the "I can't walk" or "I don't want to walk" problem until after she broke her leg. She got much sympathy and was carried while her leg was broke and I believe she uses the "I can't walk/don't want to walk" thing because of the whole ordeal.

If it's raining hard, if it's extremely cold or windy, if she's sincerely just too sleepy or needs mama to carry her, I will carry her without a second thought. I make two trips--one for her and one for our stuff. This particular day, it wasn't "Mommy will you please carry me?" (In which I would say, "Sure, sweetheart."). This day was attitude and she had tested me all morning before the "I don't WANT to walk!" Two yrs or not, I don't want her walking all over me and playing me like a puppet.

After the seven minutes of throwing a fit outside, she came to the door happy. She asked for a hug and then she happily went running through the house. I think she needed the experience. Had I carried her in, I may have had an awful day with her. She has to learn that she can't get her way all the time and walk all over me. (A LOT of her problems were because of her dad. I've addressed it with him and he is correcting things. She is daddy's little princess who gets away with everything with him







Then she comes home to me and gives me problems. He's started correcting her more though).

There are a lot of things she doesn't want to do. There are a lot of things *I* don't want to do (like work, pay bills, clean my house, etc). Some things in life, you just have to do. The small things I ask of her, she needs to do. Period. She doesn't want me to wash her face, brush her hair, fix her hair, get her dressed, walk, etc. I just sing the song...."You can't always get what you want" lol

You are all very correct about the no coat/leaving in car thing. That was a mistake but it's what I felt was right at that time. Today, we went to a store and I went to put her coat on to walk inside. She whined and said she didn't want to wear her coat. It was COLD today...very windy and cold. I told her, "It's very cold outside. If you don't want to wear your coat, you're going to be very cold. It's your decision. Would you like to put your coat on or not?" She decided to wear her coat







I will do this from now on--it's the natural consequence, unlike leaving her in the car to get her to comply.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Punchy Kaby* 
I have done a similar thing in a similar sutuation. I think you handled the situation well. Ds is now 4 and he is warm all the time, wants to wear shorts and a t shirt and no jacket outside. We got tired of asking him to wear pants or wear a jacket so now we have decided to let him wear whatever he wants. He picked out a new winter coat and now wears it over his shirt and shorts outfit. He calls his shorts 'snow shorts'.

A "shorts guy", huh? My middle son is one of these, too. Dh coined the term for those guys that just wear shorts all year long. Maybe you've seen them?

Anyway, OP, could she have just walked to the car w/out her coat? I don't think it's a big deal what you did, I just like to avoid power struggles and arguments whenever possible, because it makes it easier to take them when you have to.


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## stik (Dec 3, 2003)

I think boundaries are important. I would not carry a child who is capable of walking if it was painful for me to do so.


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## InMediasRes (May 18, 2009)

I think it's good that she got to experience the natural consequences, but I'm with Lynn. I think you have to be very careful that it doesn't turn into "I TOLD you so." I get to that too (in fact, we had this same thing this afternoon). It's tough when they're refusing everything and taking a million years to get where you want to go.

I think if there is a whole lot of power struggle all at once (you mentioned several different events) there is possibly something else going on and she doesn't really know how to voice it. I think she might have finally hit it when she asked for a hug, but she maybe had some very negative emotions that she needed to let out when she was throwing her fit outside. Maybe you could find a more healthy way for those emotions to release before they snowball and you are butting heads about every little thing.

Now, my 2.75 year old would have seen me go inside and close the door and said, "Hooray, I'm free!" and run down the street as fast as he could. That kid wouldn't come in if his eyelids were frozen shut. Most days I have to carry him in.


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

Been there, done that.

Although, safety is most important. If my 2.5 yo stopped at the end of the walkway on a below freezing day and said he wouldn't come in, I'd have left him there while I unloaded whatever I was carrying, and then I would have hauled his little butt inside (this happened last week







). I think it's a great natural consequence to let her experience her choice, as long as the temperature is mild enough to be uncomfortable but not dangerous.


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## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *InMediasRes* 
I think if there is a whole lot of power struggle all at once (you mentioned several different events) there is possibly something else going on and she doesn't really know how to voice it. I think she might have finally hit it when she asked for a hug, but she maybe had some very negative emotions that she needed to let out when she was throwing her fit outside. Maybe you could find a more healthy way for those emotions to release before they snowball and you are butting heads about every little thing.

Brainstorming is a wonderful thing and I appreciate you doing so, trying to figure out what may have been wrong with her. I just have to defend myself a bit here and say that we are VERY affectionate. I hug, kiss and tell her I love her 1,000 times/day. We also still cuddle quite a bit. Even though she's an independent toddler, I'm lucky she still crawls on my lap for long cuddle sessions.

From day one, everytime I had to correct her about something she would get upset. She disappointed mommy, afterall. I would explain what she did and why she shouldn't do it, etc. Then I would give her a great big hug and tell her that no matter what, mommy still loves her. I never wanted her to think I didn't love her because she did something undesirable. So, now, when something happens and I repremand her and/or slightly raise my voice, she immediately comes to me saying she needs a hug. We hug and I tell her I love her but I didn't like the behavior she was doing. Then she's happy and the past is in the past.

Daddy was a lot of the problem. I talked to him and he agreed and has been working on correcting. She gets every single thing she wants from him. If her brothers have a stuffed animal and dd wants it, she gets it....even if the brothers don't want her to have it. Daddy is stronger than I am and carries the "princess" (I hate that term but he treats her like one) when she requests. Daddy left her dirty street clothes on instead of changing into jammies...because the princess didn't want to. You get the idea.

I told him he was going to turn her into a monster if he continued down that path. I've had less problems from her since he started changing things. The day that spawned this thread was the day I hit the ceiling with him. He agreed that he wasn't doing her justice by treating her like a princess.

So, it's much much better now....but we still have typical toddler problems that I try my best at dealing with.


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## luv-my-boys (Dec 8, 2008)

One of my Ds is like this. We have to let him figure out that what we would like he would like too







Today he didnt want to wear a hat, its VERY cold and he often says his ears hurt when its cold like this. He threw a fit and didnt want to wear it, ok I'll put in your coat pocket. We didnt make it down the front steps before I saw him whip the hat out







Children dont have anything to base their decisions on, me in my x amount of time on earth have figured out to wear a hat in winter


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## sgmom (Mar 5, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
I met her at the door and she said, "I need a hug", which she got and I told her I loved her, etc.

I LOVE this!

In my opinion, you did nothing wrong (and for that matter, nothing I wouldn't have done myself). You told her EXACTLY what was going to happen, and WHY it was going to happen, if she didn't put her jacket/shoes on, and why you couldn't carry her inside. You gave her a very reasonable choice, with very good reasons behind it, and you didn't just LEAVE her there to fend for herself (you watched from the window, hid behind the car, came back to check on her, etc). I think that's great parenting on your part.

When people give a choice for something like "if you don't clean up your room, then I won't take you to the mall"... that's very different. That's about control. We HAVE to wear shoes and a jacket when we leave the house and it's cold outside, or else we won't be warm and our feet will hurt. And my back hurts, and you're very heavy. I have an armful of bags to bring in and simply cannot carry you. So please walk by yourself, or I'm going to have to leave you here because I CANNOT carry you.

I think you did just fine.









Oh, and the fact that she recognized that she needed a hug, is fantastic. She was obviously upset that she didn't get her way, but instead of getting mad about it (which I'm sure she did, but she got over it), she came to you and asked you for security. And at 2 years old, that's also their funny way of saying they're sorry. That's a sure sign in my eyes, that you're a great parent.


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## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
I appreciate your response but I also disagree with you on this.


Sounds like you don't so much disagree with me (since I described what I did/would do), as you are have decided that you are feeling okay about what you did after listening to the support you are getting here.

I said: "If you feel good about how you handle it, it probably works for your family."

Sounds like you and your husband feel good about it and have decided it works for your family. MDC can be a great sounding board.


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## treemom2 (Oct 1, 2003)

I don't force my children to wear certain items when they are outside (well, I don't let them out naked. . .). I would have done the same thing with the shoes and socks. I wouldn't have argued about the coat, I would have just said okay when she decided not to wear it, but I might have said something like, "well, I'll just grab it out of the car then so you have it if you need it". I wouldn't have hid behind the car. I don't believe in making children believe you've left them (this plays on the biggest fear most children have which is probably why she decided to wear the coat, she was scared you'd leave her). I do say things like, "I'm going now, I hope you come too. . .they always follow along, though sometimes at a distance.

As for the carrying, I just would have said my hands were full and I couldn't carry her right now. I wouldn't have argued, I would have just made my comment and kept walking.

I think when she came inside and told you she needed a hug was a way of reassuring herself that you still loved her--which is great. Later in the evening or the next day I would probably explain that I would never leave her. . .but she has to make choices to come with me when I tell her I'm going now.


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## InMediasRes (May 18, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
Brainstorming is a wonderful thing and I appreciate you doing so, trying to figure out what may have been wrong with her. I just have to defend myself a bit here and say that we are VERY affectionate. I hug, kiss and tell her I love her 1,000 times/day. We also still cuddle quite a bit. Even though she's an independent toddler, I'm lucky she still crawls on my lap for long cuddle sessions.

I'm sorry, you misunderstood. I didn't mean that anything _you_ were doing or not doing was causing her behavior. Sometimes kids are just "off". I just meant that maybe you should have stopped sooner through the progression of struggles and reconnected. Not that you don't do that on a regular basis. I just know that when my kid is constantly battling me, we have to take a break and change gears for a little while. I'm NOT saying cater to her every whim.


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