# 11 year old still sleeping with me



## BellinghamCrunchie (Sep 7, 2005)

DD and I co-slept until she was about 5, then because I was getting terrible sleep due to her frequent wakings and me having trouble falling back to sleep quickly, I started the process of transitioning to my own bed (a mattress on the floor) with the intention of moving the mattress further and further away, until it was out of her bedroom, and into my own. 

DD is now 11 and we have made no progress. She still wants to be held until she falls asleep, and then I slip out and go to the mattress on the floor (which hasn't budged an inch towards the door). She wakes multiple times per night, and wakes me so that I can cuddle her back to sleep. It is getting really, really old, and I'm tired of being chronically sleep deprived. It is also affecting her, as she really wants to do sleepovers at friend's houses but calls about midnight, crying, for me to come pick her up. 

We made a plan that when school was out, we would work on getting her to fall asleep by herself in her own bed, alone. We would start out with me being in bed with her but not cuddling her, then move to me being in my own bed, then eventually move to me not being in the room. I figured that the three months of summer should be enough to make this transition gradually and fairly painlessly.

However, school has been out for over a week now, and she did fall asleep the first night without my arm around her, but since then has become very tearful at bedtime and we negotiated a plan to "have cuddles" every other night, and then it got changed to "every two nights" and... well... it really isn't happening at all. 

Will she eventually choose to sleep on her own in her own room? Or is this something I need to keep trying to make happen? I am scared she will never learn to sleep by herself, and I'm doomed to chronic sleep deprivation until she's 62. Does anyone have any advice? I am seriously wondering if I made the right decision not to do sleep training when she was an infant, when it probably would have been easier (on her, at least).


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## Xerxella (Feb 6, 2008)

What does she do when you're not there? When you have to travel for work or go out late with friends and she has a sitter? 

This was the changing point for my dd. We didn't really cosleep, but she wants me there when she falls asleep and I usually lay down with her. But, sometimes one parent is gone for the night and with 3 kids, everyone needs the caregiver. So, sometimes, she just has to accept, "lay down. I'll come check on you as soon as I can". And then, always go check on her. Always follow through on your promises. Sometimes she's asleep, sometimes she's not. But, either way, it's ok. 

You may also try to just move the bed to your room. When she falls sleep, go to your bed. Tell her you're going to do this. She's old enough. Explain to her that she's just too big and she wakes you up at night. It's no big deal. If you're not next to her, you'll be in your room and she can come get you there. I'd also explain to her that she should first try to just roll over and go back to sleep. I've been able to coach my kids with this and they can do it in the middle of the night sometimes.


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## katelove (Apr 28, 2009)

Maybe you could help her learn some self-relaxation techniques which she could use if she is having trouble falling asleep or when she wakes up. I remember as a child having a couple of stories I would tell myself if I couldn't fall asleep. Basically the equivalent of a guided relaxation. 
And the other one which I like is the one where you clench and then relax each body part in turn, starting at the toes and working up. 

Another one which I've heard of but only used once or twice is where you spend a couple of minutes getting into a comfortable position and then don't move a muscle until you fall asleep. I believe it's part of one of the martial arts disciplines. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SweetSilver (Apr 12, 2011)

Hello, @BellinghamCrunchie

I seem to remember you and I were at the same place sleeping with our kids a few years ago. Aaaaand here we are with a kid who is struggling, though it looks as though my daughter has managed a bit more autonomy than yours has. I can actually go camping for two nights, or she can stay with her aunt (so long as she is in bed with her). No overnights with friends, definitely not.

We do the every-other-night thing. Yes, my mattress is on the floor in the girls' bedroom. It's still a struggle, but she is a stickler for routines, so once established we can work with it. I don't cuddle, but we've never cuddled, so I can't speak to that though you're plan sounds good. She still crawls into my bed some nights, like last night. I stopped going to her bed because I sleep that tiny bit better in mine. I chose to allow that rather than fuss about it or get stuck giving a scene when my brain is congealed. More than anything, I can't have struggles at night. I have zero patience and I end up angry and then she feels worse because she *wants* to change.

I would suggest slowly moving away every night, but maybe also trying to substitute something, like a song or two. I learned that trick a long time ago when weaning my youngest. If I sang, I was still present. Also, at bedtime, I give a "scene". A place for them to go in their imaginations. This started as a way for my youngest to redirect her thoughts when they wouldn't stop, and though I'm tired I can visualize a place for them to sit or wander and I fill in as much sensuous detail as I can. Occasionally I do fall asleep before I'm finished.

"Eventually" is too broad a word. Yes, she will "eventually". I know my daughter is strongly motivated. Very strongly motivated. But it's night time. She's an incredibly anxious kid. So, it doesn't progress as fast as even she wants. And trust me, she wants it.

For me, the most peaceful decision has been to allow her to crawl into my bed rather than the other way around. (Every other night I do lie down, mostly until she's asleep but some nights I just can't handle waiting that long). When her legs are restless and she's in my bed I tell her to crawl back into hers, not permanently, but maybe even the real movement might help calm her legs. Now that I don't have to crawl *back* in her bed, I get to stay sleepy. But I will amend that by saying my daughter sounds more mobile and flexible than yours. Still, though, it's something I can offer you.

We work on anxiety problems during the day in general, because this is a product of anxiety. My youngest-- not nearly so anxious and still liking to stay close-- never needs me in her bed but she likes me to sing occasionally. We are all in the same room.

And, yeah, it's a lot. Hugs to you. I know it's not going to help to say "hang in there" because you probably feel like you are held together by strings and wire and silly putty at this point. But do, hang in there. :Hug


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## oldsmom (Jul 8, 2015)

Call me a bit old fashioned, but at 11 years old, it may be time to force this change.

In my opinion, I think this is a matter of choosing health over happiness. Your daughter is affecting your ability to sleep and have a healthy adult life, and her waking up at night wanting attention doesn't sound like she's learning the autonomy she should be developing.

What happens if you just stop? What would happen if you just move the mattress out, and tell her it's time to push the baby bird out of the nest so she can learn to fly? I suspect she would probably be very unhappy, and you would both have a few miserable nights. But what if you just did it, and didn't cave in to any demands otherwise? 

It seems odd to me that this is something you think she needs to be weaned from. She's 11, and mentally healthy kids adapt when they are told they have to.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

I agree with several of the PPs. It would be good to learn relaxation techniques or find a guided meditation that she can play in her room.

But in the end, unless there are extenuating circumstances that you haven't posted about, I also agree that at age 11, you can say "time to sleep in your own room" and deal with a few difficult nights (hey, it's summer, no school to wake up for). I'm definitely not a fan of cry-it-out for little babies, but it might be pretty much what you have to do here. I know that I am way too old to be sleeping on a mattress on the floor and if she's still waking you multiple times a night, that means neither of you are actually getting a good night's sleep. I suspect that these gradual steps might actually be contributing to fear and anxiety, and it could be time to just make a change.

ETA that I bed-shared well into the elementary school years, so no judgement from me, but if it is not working, it is not working.


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## SweetSilver (Apr 12, 2011)

oldsmom said:


> She's 11, and mentally healthy kids adapt when they are told they have to.


And she might not be a mentally healthy kid. She might be swallowing her anxiety until bedtime, when she lets it all hang out. Otherwise I would agree with you, and I'm not opposed to some pushing even here, but a kid this anxious (and I speak from first hand experience) needs some time of the day when she can relax and decompress. Right now it's bed cuddling with mom. That does need to shift, but this is not a "typical" child and it needs to be done more slowly and holistically, and she needs to find some level of consent.

An 11yo can't necessarily reason her way out of this problem, but she can definitely be reasoned with during the process so as to manufacture some level of consent. My daughter and I do talk about what might help for her, I do state my basic personal needs (I need near total stillness if she's in my bed while I'm falling asleep), we do try to compromise and we continually keep at it and try new things, but this is a collaborative effort. 11yo is old enough for that, not necessarily old enough to bounce back in a healthy way from an "aggressive" approach. What she is working with is not typical, and advice aimed at typical kids should be accepted with caveats.


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## BellinghamCrunchie (Sep 7, 2005)

Thanks for the replies.

Sweetsilver, I really appreciate your sharing your experience with your DD. She sounds very similar to my DD. 

DD does have a great desire to sleep alone and do sleepovers. She isn't manipulative, or demanding... for example, last night I suggested we try falling asleep again without my arm around her. She said okay. About five minutes later, she tearfully said could I please cuddle her. I said okay, sure; we'll try again another night. She is a fairly anxious child, not so much during the day but at night her fears seem to come out, and they manifest with physical symptoms when they do (feeling nauseous, lump in throat, tummy ache). We ended up sitting in front of a bowl until 5am last night, and basically neither of us got sleep. At 5am I said I've really got to get some sleep; she said no problem mama I'll go out into the living room, and took her teddy and ipad and curled up in the chair in the living room. I tried to sleep but couldn't so went out about 5:30am and found her sitting there, her face covered with tears, trying really really hard to do this on her own and not come get me. It broke my heart. She tries hard. That is not the issue. I really don't think it is a discipline issue. 

We have tried play therapy for the nighttime anxiety (play therapist says she's fine - well attached, strong and resilient, and the nighttime anxiety was just part of a biological propensity and an active, intelligent mind). We tried using a kid relaxation CD that the play therapist gave us (it seemed to help with falling asleep but not with waking and falling back to sleep). A friend who is into tapping showed us some tapping techniques, but they didn't really seem to help. I forgot to mention that she has a history of sleepwalking, and I'm nervous about being too far away from her in case she puts herself in danger, but it has been 6 months since the last sleepwalking episode. 

Sweetsilver, the bed she is in is actually mine, and the bed I'm sleeping in we got for her! Things got switched around when I realized it was easier to sneak out of the bed when she was asleep than try to get her to go back to her bed. So I started leaving my bed to go to hers, and now its just progressed into the big bed is "hers" and the little bed is "mine." Maybe its time to reverse that... or better, start with a new bed that is officially mine and has no previous ownership connotations 

At 6am we talked about the sleeping alone goals we had for the summer. We were both worn out and tearful and exhausted. I explained the reasons why we were working on this, again: So she could feel good about going on sleepovers and camping trips, and I could get better sleep at night. I said that it looked like maybe she wasn't ready for this yet, and what would she like to do? Keep trying, or take a break for a while? She answered that she just didn't feel ready, and that she's sorry she keeps me awake, but could we take a break. So at this point, we are kind of leaving the sleep thing alone, I guess. This feels right to me (well, actually, it feels like I'm kind of stuck in this for a while longer, and I'm resigned to that experience, I guess). If it causes her so much anxiety that she's up for hours with a stomach ache simply because I wouldn't move my arm 12 inches to the right so that it was draped across her side while she falls asleep we'd better give it more time. And maybe keep an eye out for opportunities or environments where it happens naturally that she falls asleep on her own, without calling attention to it and making it into a big thing. 

Does anyone have any experience with not forcing a child to sleep alone and finding that at age 18 or so they still can't sleep without you? I just don't want to screw her up for life. I'm willing to do a few more years of short sleep, I guess, if it isn't going to hurt her or would be good for her. Is it true that around age 13 she might find the childhood nighttime anxiety has lessened and organically choose to sleep alone?


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

BellinghamCrunchie said:


> Is it true that around age 13 she might find the childhood nighttime anxiety has lessened and organically choose to sleep alone?


I do not know specifically about nighttime/sleep anxiety, but my kid does have issues with anxiety and I did not notice that she "grew out of it" in any way between 11 and 14.


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## newmamalizzy (Jul 23, 2010)

I'm sorry that I have no direct experience to offer. 

But in your last question:

I was a very anxious sleeper as a kid. In my tween years I was awake, frozen in terror for hours each night. I created long, strange rituals to help myself go to sleep. My parents did not entertain any of this, and I remember it being the worst from ages 10 until 13 or so. Then the fears mostly subsided, but were replaced by intricate fantasizing. At some point in high school I realized that I had completely let go of this imaginary world that was a staple of my nights for several years. So, yes, it all just passed in its own, and I've never struggled with sleep since.


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## mama24-7 (Aug 11, 2004)

I have not read all the replies all the way through. 

I work to see behavior as communication and IMO, she's communicating something. My dd who is almost 14, has gone back & forth with where she sleeps but now is in her own room & has no interest at all to move from there (& she has anxiety & other issues, she's not what I consider healthy). So, I don't think you've messed her up at all by not CIO'ing when she was little & I think you'll compound the mess if you don't work together now. As I told my husband recently, we will not be employing any "solutions" that create more problems. 

With all that said, does she have health issues like allergies, asthma, eczema, etc? Those are all gut health issues & anxiety is one too. 

That's all I've time for right now. I think you are doing your daughter a huge service by seeing if there are more ways to work together. You are partnering with her to find a solution. I applaud your commitment to your child. The world would be a much better place if every parent did more of this. 

All the best,
Sus


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## ceekoke (Sep 21, 2013)

*Hypnotherapy?*

Not always a good idea to use hypnotherapy to change behaviour, as it can just mean behaviour is transferred to a different area (eg. fear of sleeping alone could change to fear of going outside alone), but it can be useful for dealing with/finding out the cause.


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## bugitybug (Jan 3, 2009)

*Sensory processing struggles and/or allergies??*

I wonder whether your daughter may have sensory processing issues that cause her daily stress and possibly some anxiety. These issues can read like bad behavior or mental health issues, but are neither of those things.

She may have a need for proprioceptive input to fall asleep. You could try a weighted blanket so she can feel secure while falling asleep--at home or on a sleepover. She may benefit from Wilbarger brushing/compression--You can work with an OT to figure out the best combination for her. (I'm not an OT or dr., so these are just ideas to ask about.)

explainer:
http://mamaot.com/sensory-processing-disorder/

checklist:
http://www.spdfoundation.net/about-sensory-processing-disorder/redsflags/

resources:
http://www.pediastaff.com/blog/ot-corner-help-for-the-anxious-child-13415
http://www.sensorysmartparent.com
http://lemonlimeadventures.com/sensory-processing-resources/
http://lemonlimeadventures.com/decoding-everyday-kid-behaviors/

related:
http://www.mymundaneandmiraculouslife.com/just-go-bed-deciphering-legitimate-needs-stalling-tactics/

books:
--If she is a quiet, thoughtful, introverted type I really really recommend the book Quiet (Amazon, $10) for support in general, though it likely would not offer 'answers' to this situation specifically.
--The Explosive Child is a great guide to parsing out 'behavior' so you can figure out how to properly support the child and support a more desirable situation.

Also, have you drilled into what is causing your daughter to wake up throughout the night? Does she have allergies or apnea that keep waking her up? It sounds like she's not staying in really deep, restful sleep for most of the night. If she wants to separate, but can't at this age, there must be an unidentified, unresolved issue that is keeping her from her goal, and from restful sleep cycles. She is obviously struggling, and you are working so hard to support her. She sounds also like she feels guilty for affecting your sleep as well, even though it seems to be entirely out of her hands--that must be adding to her anxiety. ...Kudos to you for supporting her where she is--Maybe an OT or an allergist with a different point of view, or a sleep doctor (who is not behavior oriented) could shine some light on new strategies that would really help her feel secure, and help you both get some sleep.

You both sound exhausted. Take care of yourselves, and maybe a bonding day to celebrate that you're Still Working On It would help you both feel better. A special lunch, or movie, or hike, something with enjoyable time.

Good luck! -bug


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## pixiemamakins (Dec 20, 2013)

*Diet Changes?*

I'm so sorry to hear you are going through this. I know first hand it can be exhausting, not just in the fact that you are not getting great sleep but also due to the fact that you are constantly attending to her needs and anxieties.

I have a 3 year old who is also a terrible sleeper. She still wakes up several times a night and needs to nurse back to sleep. While I don't have great advice for an 11 year old, I do know that some of my daughter's sleep issues can be attributed to things in her diet.

She has a sensitivity to corn, dairy, soy and gluten for sure. If she has any of those foods, even in small amounts, she will definitely awake in the middle of the night, sometimes for hours. I am also allergic to dairy (the protein, not the lactose) and had night anxiety and insomnia for years. I used to be the same way, sleeping near my mom and having anxiety at night. Gluten gives me sleep issues as well.

Bone broth, fish oil, and probiotics can all help with sleep. So can magnesium taken internally or magnesium spray on her body (though the spray tingles a bit). Chamomile and skullcap can help with anxiety and sleep issues as well. My daughter saw a naturopath that gave her a pretty strict regimen around diet, making sure she had enough activity during the day, vitamin D, and all of these supplements. Her sleep did improve a lot while we were doing this. Maybe this will be useful information for you, too.

You didn't mention any of these things in your post, so I'm not sure if you've tried them. When we do the regimen regularly, it does greatly help her sleep.


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## bugitybug (Jan 3, 2009)

*loosely related: anxiety readings*

Anxiety may be a symptom of your real issue, or may be the real issue causing symptoms. Either way, here are some readings I had on hand about anxious/worrying kids that may help while you suss it out, and buoy you up in your already supportive approach. Listed in no particular order.

A MFT may be able to help with some types of anxiety. You'd have to interview some of them and see whether you can find a good fit.

*Help for the anxious child*/ Pediastaff
http://www.pediastaff.com/blog/ot-corner-help-for-the-anxious-child-13415

*Anxiety and MTHFR - How a Vitamin cured my Anxiety* / Adelaide Now
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/lifes...e/news-story/058666cc978da7ee1fca0f1ee043212c

*Anxiety and Kids* / Hey Sigmund
http://www.heysigmund.com/anxiety-in-kids/

*Anxiety can read like aggression or meltdowns* / Hey Sigmund
http://www.heysigmund.com/anxiety-or-aggression-children/

*Defiance vs. Anxiety* / WashPost
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-anxiety-what-to-do-with-a-child-who-worries/

*What to say to Children when they are Anxious* / Hey Sigmund
http://www.heysigmund.com/building-emotional-intelligence-what-to-say-to-children-with-anxiety/

*Screentime and social anxiety in the classroom* / The Atlantic
http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/01/the-socially-anxious-generation/384458/

*9 Things every Parent with an anxious child should try */ PsyCentral
http://blogs.psychcentral.com/stres...very-parent-with-an-anxious-child-should-try/

*49 Phrases to Calm an Anxious Child* / Go Zen
http://www.gozen.com/49-phrases-to-calm-an-anxious-child/

*13 Things to say to an Anxious Child* / LemonLime Adventures
http://lemonlimeadventures.com/what-to-say-to-calm-an-anxious-child/


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## janecarmel (Nov 2, 2005)

I might be in the minority, but I don't think you have to force the change necessarily. I have two children with anxiety issues and a few other special needs and sometimes conventional wisdom, as much as my head tells me to follow it, doesn't work as well as 

I still co-sleep with my 10-year-old DS. It's more like musical beds because he starts with me, DH moves him, DS returns, DH moves to the sofa, and eventually the other DS shows up, usually at dawn. 

Does it affect my sleep? Somewhat. But I'm willing to work with it because it provides such a comfort to DS. And while of course I need to function during the day, I'm not the President or a neurosurgeon and can get by on so-so sleep once in a while. Again, this is not conventional American wisdom but my heart says it's OK, as long as it's not causing too much stress in other areas, and it's not. DH is behind it as well. 

So, not to make the thread about me, but I think it's OK if you want to continue this if your heart tells you you should.

But if the scale has tipped over to "more stress than it's worth," then I think the people have posted some great ideas to move the transition along.


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## Penthisilea (Feb 21, 2014)

*the flip side....*

If what you're trying isn't working, then a few ideas come to mind. They may or may not work, but I wanted to just kind of share a few thoughts in case one or two might be helpful. What is clear is that what if happening now is NOT working, so be sure to keep an open mind.

1. 1. Is she on social media? If she is, get her off NOW. Kids are SO cruel, and having social media, or even texting, which allows kids to share every stupid, cruel thought that pops into their heads before their immature brains have time to sensor it and consider, can cause horrible, horrible damage. I'm screwed up enough from having facebook as a college student, and I didn't have to navigate finding myself as a person and developing healthy esteem in my early teen years with the "aid" of everyone of my peers telling me all the ways I didn't measure up. Even as an adult, my own anxiety has been greatly reduced since getting off facebook. My own experience makes extremely leery of allowing my kids to have social media before 18. I'd much rather encourage email/snail mail pen pals, and involvement in sports or community events to satisfy those social urges.

2. 2. Read the book Simplicity Parenting by Kim John Payne. It may have some helpful advice for how you can make positive changes in other areas of life that may contribute to more peace at bed time.
3. 

3. For some people, self-soothing techniques may be helpful. For others, this may be like continuing to take decongestants when they have a life-threatening sinus infection that needs antibiotics. Maybe it's time to consider doing some things to boost her self-awareness and self-esteem. For instance, if you have the gear and experience (or a friend with gear and experience who doesn't mind sharing), get out for a short backpacking trip or backwoods trip. Go canoeing together. Go horseback riding. Go rock climbing. I'm not suggesting you be reckless. Take every recommended safety precaution - but embrace the thrill, embrace the risk. If she realizes she can face and conquer her fears in other areas (especially in areas where it's her versus nature or gravity, not her versus other girls), she may start to feel like her bedroom at night is not such a scary place. Maybe take up a marital art. That has the added benefit of being a regular activity that not only improves focus and mental clarity, but also expends energy so maybe she'll be more tired at night! I have to say that with my own kids (the oldest of whom is only 6, so I'm not where you are yet), every time I try to coddle an anxiety, it gets worse (Thank you, Daniel Freaking Tiger). When I take steps to help them conquer it and move past it, things improve. This doesn't mean I abandon them or throw them into something they cannot handle, it means I talk them through it, physically hold them or their hand if need be, and give them lots of reinforcement when it's done. It's never comfortable for them, so it's uncomfortable for me, too, but if I revert to our comfort zones I'm doing them a disservice. My job is to prepare them for life, and life frequently gets outside your comfort zone. When life is outside my comfort zone, I find I benefit much less from trying to tell myself the problem is different than it is, than when I remind myself that I've dealt with hard stuff before, and it's just time to knuckle down and do it, and when it's done it will be behind me.
4. 4. Try this: Get her some books she might enjoy - preferably a series. I recommend the Mossflower series by Brian Jacques. It's adventure, but not so big and scary and full of real life dangers that it would make it hard for a child to sleep. Then say, "I need sleep. We will all be better if I get better sleep. I'll stay right here on my mattress. I'm not going anywhere. Keep the reading light on all night if you want to. Stay up and read all night if you want to. But let's try this tonight." Make sure she gives it more than 5 minutes. That's a little silly to give in after 5 minutes. Give her a clock and tell her, "Let me sleep until _________ (make it at least two hours after bedtime, so you have a hope of finishing a sleep cycle). If you're still nervous, then get me up." The idea is she'll read until her eyes are so heavy she just&#8230; falls asleep. Make sure she gives this a good, solid try (like a week of two-hour stints) before giving up on this.

Good luck! Your need for sleep is valid. Your daughter's need for sleep, AND her need for you to have proper sleep, is a real thing. Hopefully she'll be able to come to terms with this and take some responsibility soon, too (because frankly, people on the roads where you drive need you to have good sleep, too).


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## CPM in NC (Aug 4, 2012)

No one has mentioned homeopathy. The strongest homeopathic symptoms are mind symptoms. If the correct remedy is found for her, it will support her physically as well. Seeking out a credentialed homeopath could be a very worthwhile investment. The first appointment is expensive, but after that it is really affordable. We have had spectacular results in our family. Some naturopaths are skilled homeopaths, but some not so much. It can be just another modality to them.

Seeking out physical causes could be very reassuring to her. I'm sure she is wondering if there is something wrong with her. You are a good mom, believe that! Maybe YOU could use a sleep aid in order to sleep through her disturbances. And this is a small thing, but all of my children felt a little lavender oil on their pillow helped them sleep.

Mom of grown-ups


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## DetroitMom (Apr 15, 2004)

Hi, I haven't posted in a long time but can sympathize with you. I will be completely honest, I have my own twin bed in my daughter's room and she is 9. To get out of her bed I started with sleeping with her but having my back face her. This helped in two ways, first I stopped being kicked in places that hurt (so I could stay asleep) and second she could still feel I was right there even though my arm was not around her (meaning she did not wake me up every time she woke). Next, her bed time is 8:30 (so is my son's who is 13) early bedtime helped as it was harder for her to fall asleep if she was too tired (some nights it still takes hours). I stopped going to bed with her right away and gave her an idea to think about (for her it is cotton candy clouds, river of chocolate, etc.). I told her if she was not sleep by the time I was ready to go to bed I would sleep in her room not in her bed, and did it. Now we both get better sleep and sometimes I even sleep with my husband (he snores REALLY loud and just got a cpap machine which has helped too). Other parents have posted some great ideas and I hope you find the combo that work for your family. Good Luck!


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## claras_mom (Apr 25, 2006)

My 11 yo daughter has only this year started transitioning out of really needing someone with her, in order to fall asleep. She's been able to have sleepovers, finally, and has started falling asleep on her own several times a week. It's huge for her/us. 

She gets anxious/scared at night. Also needs things to be just so--doesn't sleep well in hotels, for example, no matter who is with her. She is also generally an anxious kid--manifests as stomachaches. Awhile back, she was able to verbalize that she doesn't like being the only one awake in the house. It's also not easy for her to fall asleep with me, even though she has a hard time falling asleep without me. /sigh The solution there--for both--was for me to promise to stay awake--reading usually--until she "calls me in," which is when she's calm enough for my presence to be helpful. She's just started really being a reader last year, and reading at bedtime is really helpful to her, part of the unwinding process. This spring, we started trying to walk every night after dinner, which also seems to lessen the general stress level. Curiously enough, if it's just her dad around--if I'm traveling--she's fine with just a few minutes of lying down time and then will just stay quiet until she finally drops off--it can take quite awhile. But dh generally stays up a lot later, so she knows that she's not "alone" in the dark, no matter how long it takes her to fall asleep.

Is it frustrating and do I wish I could get a really good night's sleep? Yes. But I don't see any point in forcing the issue. It is slowly resolving on its own. I've made sure that she knows that there's no shame in still needing to snuggle in order to sleep, so that she won't guilt herself over that (I think she'd be surprised at how many of her classmates also still co-sleep, at least part of the time). I do try to make sure she's plenty active during the day--she's at surf camp right now and will probably go bowling in the evening--and also to cut off screen time at least an hour before bedtime.


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## SweetSilver (Apr 12, 2011)

I also sleep with my back to dd, mostly, like @claras_mom

Which makes me think about whether your daughter would calm down and allow more physical separation if she knew you were not going to leave the bed-- where she could reach out and touch you in the dark. If she's in a larger bed, theoretically there should be enough space for two.

It might be worth a try. You'd be taking a step back-- not leaving the bed. But that might allow you to take a first step forward-- SPACE!!! The trust she gains from knowing you aren't leaving close proximity just might allow her to take the next step towards getting better night's sleep for both of you. Then, perhaps, you can take small steps to getting out of the bed entirely.

Just a thought.


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## stormborn (Dec 8, 2001)

BellinghamCrunchie said:


> Does anyone have any experience with not forcing a child to sleep alone and finding that at age 18 or so they still can't sleep without you? I just don't want to screw her up for life. I'm willing to do a few more years of short sleep, I guess, if it isn't going to hurt her or would be good for her. Is it true that around age 13 she might find the childhood nighttime anxiety has lessened and organically choose to sleep alone?


I had the opposite experience with dd14...she slept in the family bedroom with me until about 9 or 10 and moved to her room on her own with no problem. I slept in her trundle for a few nights (mostly because our rooms are on different floors, I think.)
but that was it as far as transition. Kinda funny,her motivation was the same as your daughter's but she has yet to have a traditional sleepover. 
At 12,though, she begged to go on a 3 night camping trip with friends a state away (we totally expected a phone call!) and has gone every few weeks since. This is pretty typical of her personality in general;she lurks in the background until she has something mastered in almost all areas of life.

Dd8 (polar opposite of her sister in almost everything) is still in my bed with no signs of stopping but has slept at friend's houses for a year at least with no issues.

FWIW I slept alone until my Dad died when I was 9, then I slept in my Mom's bed until I was about 13. I think I turned out pretty normal.


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## grays_mom (Sep 26, 2007)

*Another Cosleeper*

I still cosleep with my just 10 year old DS. I don't make a big deal about it and he sleeps like a rock with the exceptions of maybe 4 times a year when he can't get (back) to sleep. He has recently done a couple of of sleepovers without an issue. The biggest challenge is that your daughter wakes up so many times a night, and that is her rhythm right now. Maybe the key is to figure out why that is. Is she anxious about you not being right there and keeps checking? Is there something else waking her up? Then you would know whether you need to back off and just work on being calm about bed time and her work on calming herself down and falling back to sleep (perhaps with you by her side but not waking you up) or something else. I know with my son sometimes it works to state a suggestion and then back off and let him take the lead. Or wait until he brings up something as an issue. Perhaps after letting it go for a bit, you can suggest a range of things and see what she thinks might work, knowing it will be hard. Maybe rather than just a plan to not sleep together x, you can talk through what she will do when she finds that it is difficult. Perhaps she is under the illusion that it should just click one day and be easy.

Generally I think I read that yoyo-ing or reactive cosleeping can be harder to break over time. I also wonder if what is really working for your daughter is sleeping with your smell. We tend to underestimate that as humans since we are so vision and voice focused. Maybe even the feel of your mattress is comforting and she loses all that if she sleeps over. I think figuring out the root and then working with your daughter to self-solve one thing at at a time (e.g., breathing exercises while next to you) or change one variable (e.g., a different smell or feel to her sleeping area). Then again, what do I know? I am cosleeping still...but I work for much of the summer in an area of the world where everyone sleeps together because it is so cold :smile:
D


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## mama24-7 (Aug 11, 2004)

Popping in to say how impressed and glad I am to see lots of responses that are working with children to figure things out. Gives me hope. And I'm glad to see very little of "s/he is old enough" stuff. Maturity for all kinds of things is rarely based on age.



Sus


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

I did say "old enough", but I am afraid it might have been misinterpreted. I'm not saying that 11 is "old enough" to suddenly not have anxieties -- I'm in my 40s and still have a few issues. I am saying that, unlike a tiny baby, 11 is "old enough" to know that mama has not suddenly disappeared never to return, and to get a drink for herself if she is physically uncomfortable. I agree that the underlying anxiety needs to be addressed as gently and kindly as possible, but there is a difference between sleep-training a preteen and an infant.

I co-slept much longer than is socially/culturally acceptable. I don't think age is the determining factor. But neither the mother nor the child is getting a good night's sleep as it is, and IMO/IME sleep deprivation is a real thing and will actually make it harder to do the work that needs to be done in addressing the underlying issues.


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