# Need help, dh threatening to have it done to babe...



## mi.birthdoula (Jun 12, 2008)

I posted this as a reply in my ddc, but I would like to get some advice...

Unfortunetly dh and I have been going around and around on this issue. I will NOT under any circumstances let someone mutilate this babe if it is a boy. Dh on the other hand is insistant that if it is a boy that he WILL be circed, even if he has to take him out of the room and ask for it to be done while I am sleeping. I'm at my wits end with the whole issue, I'm not one to ever give in on something that I truly believe in. I've even asked dh to read, investigate, info on it, and he still wants it done. I've also had him watch a video of it being done, and his reply was, "yeah, well I had it done and I'm fine, and I don't remember it so I don't understand what the big deal is."

The thing that completely blows my mind is that (this is going to get into some sexual topics) dh knows that I have a hard time being completely satisfied with him all the time and he is constantly complaining about it. When we were discussing the circe issue, I brought up (in a very gentle and caring way) that I had been with an intact man before, and it is very different for not only the man but also the woman. I don't want to take away my sons' and future partners full pleasure just so my dh is happy.

This is my predicament: I will be having a section in the hospital, and I know from prior experiences that I am extremely groggy and tired for 24 hours post opt. I am planning on having the babe room in, but I am so afraid that he will take the babe and have it done without my knowledge while I am sleeping.

My questions are:
(we live in Michigan)

1. can the hospital perform the procedure with only the fathers consent? Or do they need both parents to consent?

2. upon admission, can I tell the hospital that under no circumstances is anyone other than myself allowed to give consent for procedures done to babe? And are they legally obliged to follow this request?

I know I'm not due until Aug, but I really want to get this off my mind as it has been eating a hole in me. Any info or suggestions are greatly appreciated!


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## Fellow Traveler (Jan 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mi.birthdoula* 
I posted this as a reply in my ddc, but I would like to get some advice...

My questions are:
(we live in Michigan)

1. can the hospital perform the procedure with only the fathers consent? Or do they need both parents to consent?

Usually they won't do it if there is an argument so be firm in your insistence that they not circumcise your son.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mi.birthdoula* 
2. upon admission, can I tell the hospital that under no circumstances is anyone other than myself allowed to give consent for procedures done to babe? And are they legally obliged to follow this request?

Yes. But I would do it before your delivery.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mi.birthdoula* 
I know I'm not due until Aug, but I really want to get this off my mind as it has been eating a hole in me. Any info or suggestions are greatly appreciated!

I would check into the policies of the Hospital you're planning on delivering in. Notify your OB and Pediatrician often, make sure they understand your objection. Make sure your objection is clearly noted on all hospital admission forms and if possible notify the management in the L&D part of the hospital.

Your bigger problem might be after you're discharged. If your husband is insistent enough he could potentially take the child to another doctor. I am not sure how best to handle that but I think that if you get him out of the hospital, that is unlikely to happen.

Keep strong you're doing a great thing for your son, what a lucky boy. You still have time to convince your husband, perhaps it will just take some time. And we're here to support you.


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## kiara7 (Feb 14, 2008)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that baby is considered part of mom in the hospital, no? But then again, you'll have your hands full when you're out of the hospital. It's better to sort these things out beforehand.

I would tell your dh to find ONE medical organization (AAP, etc.) that recommends it. Then you'll talk to him about it. Until he finds it, it's not being done. And he won't find it.


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## Belle (Feb 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mi.birthdoula* 
"yeah, well I had it done and I'm fine, and I don't remember it so I don't understand what the big deal is."

Tell him that you are the one with intact genitalia, so you will be making the decision about whether your son retains his bodily integrity.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Yes, I'd make it clear to the hospital, my Dr, the nurses in L&D ect, have it put in your chart all of that. I'd be more worried what will happen after you leave the hospital. Since you aren't due till August you have plenty of time for him to figure out that you mean it and that no matter what temper tantrum and threats he brings you aren't changing your mind.


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## glongley (Jun 30, 2004)

I know of one family here in Colorado, where the boy came home intact, and a few weeks later the dad took the baby and got him circumcised while the mother was taking a nap. So it can happen.

I think your husband needs some compassion as he grapples with this. Sorry to hear him complain about you having difficulty having an orgasm, but he certainly is likely to feel his masculinity is threatened if you compare how he is able to satisfy you, to how a previous intact partner was able to. This may make him all the more insistent on having your son circumcised, just to rationalize to himself that nothing is wrong with him.

I think with time he will come around, and you have plenty of time. He probably never even thought about it before, and now he is having to work through all kinds of subconscious emotional reactions to the idea. It definitely takes time. Be compassionate with him but stay firm on it. Most doctors have the sense not to do something like this if they know the parents are in disagreement, but cover all your bases as far as notifying all parties (OBs, pediatricians, hospital risk management representatives, etc.) in writing, repeatedlly if necessary, that you do not give permission and that you will take legal action if they do it with your husband's OK alone.

Gillian


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## Contrariety (Jul 16, 2007)

His insistence to circ would be the end of my marriage, period. I would claim in the hospital that I wasn't really so sure he was the father just to buy some time... something... ANYTHING to keep it from happening.

I would leave DH in a heartbeat if he thought that were an acceptable thing to do to anyone, let alone a newborn babe. I guess if it meant that much to him, he would lose me with the foreskin. I'd be preparing for legal action, if any can be taken before the babe were born.

I'm hardcore about it. It would be THE END OF THE EFFING WORLD if someone were seriously thinking about doing that to my child.


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## zoshamosha (Apr 15, 2006)

See if you can consult a lawyer. I'd let your husband and pediatrician know that you would be planning on taking legal action against them if your ds is circ'd without your consent.


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## Kelly Jene (Jun 8, 2008)

Keep educating him! Stand firm, but don't give up on him yet! Good luck.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *glongley* 
I know of one family here in Colorado, where the boy came home intact, and a few weeks later the dad took the baby and got him circumcised while the mother was taking a nap. So it can happen.

I think your husband needs some compassion as he grapples with this. Sorry to hear him complain about you having difficulty having an orgasm, but he certainly is likely to feel his masculinity is threatened if you compare how he is able to satisfy you, to how a previous intact partner was able to. This may make him all the more insistent on having your son circumcised, just to rationalize to himself that nothing is wrong with him.

I think with time he will come around, and you have plenty of time. He probably never even thought about it before, and now he is having to work through all kinds of subconscious emotional reactions to the idea. It definitely takes time. Be compassionate with him but stay firm on it. Most doctors have the sense not to do something like this if they know the parents are in disagreement, but cover all your bases as far as notifying all parties (OBs, pediatricians, hospital risk management representatives, etc.) in writing, repeatedlly if necessary, that you do not give permission and that you will take legal action if they do it with your husband's OK alone.

Gillian

That would so be the end of my marriage







:

In the hospital the mother must sign the concent the father cannot. After you leave that is a whole other ballgame.


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## FullMetalMom (Aug 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Contrariety* 
I would leave DH in a heartbeat if he thought that were an acceptable thing to do to anyone, let alone a newborn babe. I guess if it meant that much to him, he would lose me with the foreskin. I'd be preparing for legal action, if any can be taken before the babe were born.









: I would not stay married to someone like that.


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## Greg B (Mar 18, 2006)

He apparently is too emotional to listen to reason at this time. But you have some time, so keep after him to read and think about it. You may want to work on the human rights issue as well.

And here is a good reference that is written by doctors, and covers all the important points carefully and with references, in case it helps.

http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...yStatement.pdf

I think you need to keep the argument as unemotional as you can. He should be making the time and effort to lay out his arguments in a logical fashion. The default should be genital integrity. Anything else needs to be justified in a way that a reasonable person could see the logical path leading to that decision and agree with the decision. Not an emotional outburst and threat to do it while you are asleep.

While he may have been RIC and not remember it, nor feel that it has reduced his sexual function or pleasure, the recomendations have changed since he was cut. Medical Organizations no longer recommend it. There are many reasons to wait if there is disagreement. What is his argument against waiting until the child can make his own decision?

If you can get him to explore why he is so emotional about it. Likely he is afraid of something. Perhaps how his son will be treated by...whoever. This is all fear based on assumptions. He needs to explore this and why he feels this way. It can be difficult and take a long time, but may allow him to realize that he is not keeping the best interest of his child in mind, but rather his own fears about something he does not know enough about.

You may also want to contact Attorneys for the Rights of the Child to see what they may suggest:

http://www.arclaw.org/

Best wishes


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## stellimamo (Jan 9, 2006)

Does your husband work out of the home? My was not as insistent about circ but wasn't sure about uncirc. I finally told him how I thought and explained to him that I would under no circumstances do anything involved w/ the procedure if he decided to go behind my back (which he never threatened to do, I just wanted to head that idea off at the pass) and have it done. If he had it done he would have to take 6 weeks off work to do all the wound care and diaper changes.
He couldn't take 6 weeks off so that was the end of the discussion. Now a year later he has no regrets about not having it done and is pretty anti circ himself.

Truly though if my husband were threatening to do something like circ behind my back I would be looking deeper into my relationship. I don't know if I could enjoy family lif if I was constantly worrying about my dh running off and circing my son against my wishes. Thats a huge trust issue.

Best of luck.


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## liseux (Jul 3, 2004)

You definitely don't deserve to have to worry when you are fresh out of surgery that your baby will be hurt. I'm sorry your husband is putting this pressure on you, but I agree with the pp who thinks maybe he is being defensive b/c he is hurt. I feel for him too.

I have a friend who was sleeping after her c/s & did not want to circ & her dh had it done while she was sleeping. But... she did not put the paperwork machinery into motion, she was just hoping he would change his mind.

I would tell your OB, everyone in the practice, when you go alone to your appointments, that you refuse the procedure no matter what dh says. I would also put in writing in your pre-auth kit you send to the hospital. I would tell every nurse involved in prepping you & when you are alone for the spinal placement, tell them again. I would tell every nurse that cares for you postpartum. Keep a few copies of the refusal form & give them to all nurses & OB's that come in your room. The OB is probably the one who would do it, thats how it works here. If its not his/her patient, they won't care about the circ. So, find out exactly who would do the circ and then talk to them personally & in writing. And when you get home... if you're still worried about it, just don't let him out of your sight. By the time he's a month old or so, your dh will hopefully be used to the idea. Good luck & I hope he comes around, by the birth.


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## MadameXCupcake (Dec 14, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Contrariety* 
His insistence to circ would be the end of my marriage, period. I would claim in the hospital that I wasn't really so sure he was the father just to buy some time... something... ANYTHING to keep it from happening.









:
I want my whole baby and I would do anything to protect every part of my baby.


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## kangaroomum25 (Jun 21, 2007)

If you were having a girl and you were going to circumcise the girl would he really be ok with that?


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## Super Pickle (Apr 29, 2002)

Dear Mi.birthdoula,
I just wanted to say that it's very possible that he won't be as adamant once the baby is born. My husband backed off a _lot_ after our son was born. I would also recommend focusing more in your arguments about the fact that it's unnecessary torture and not your right to make the decision for your child, and backing off on the fact that it's sexually damaging. THat's not what your DH wants to hear. HTH!


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## StephM76 (Jan 13, 2009)

You still have time to work on your DH. I think that mentioning that you had better sexual experiences with an intact partner set you back a lot, and made your husband even more defensive than he normally would have been.

Try showing him the video and all of the reasons why it is not recommended anymore. If he is still adamant about it, I'd see a lawyer. Write up a letter that states if your son if circumcised without YOUR consent you will sue the hospital and the doctor, I'm sure then you won't have to worry, at least in the hospital.


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## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

You know, I'm a hardass this way, but here's what I would do. I would sit down with my husband and say something along the lines of:

Honey, I love you and I know this is hard for you to accept.

But listen to me and listen well, because I am going to tell you this one time and one time only.

I love you and want to stay married to you. I want our baby to be raised by both his parents.

Circumcision is not our decision to make for our child. It is his body and his penis and he is the only one who gets to decide whether to cut his foreskin off, when he is an adult.

If you go behind my back and violate our child's basic human right to his own bodily self-determination, you will be ending our marriage. I will not stay married to someone who disrespects our child and disrespects me in such a flagrant way.

If you circumcise our baby, it will be a physical attack on him and I will not stay with someone who abuses our child any more than I will stay with someone who abuses me.

So just wrap your head around this right now -- our son will not be circumcised. Period. End of discussion. If you do it, our marriage will be over that minute. Period. End of discussion.

And I simply would not engage on the subject any more. There is nothing to discuss, nothing to debate. I will not listen to threats to do it, and I will not listen to your tantrums.

But that's me.


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## Nandi (Jul 12, 2008)

Has anyone suggested the Penn and Teller video yet? Will he watch a video of it being done? I think you have time to present him with facts.
Also that story posted above of the husband sneaking off to have it done while the mom napped, is absolutely horrifying. That would be the end of my marriage as well.
It should be as illegal for boys as it is for girls.








Doctors should not be allowed to continue to torture infants this way!


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## perspective (Nov 3, 2007)

Quote:

When we were discussing the circe issue, I brought up (in a very gentle and caring way) that I had been with an intact man before, and it is very different for not only the man but also the woman. I don't want to take away my sons' and future partners full pleasure just so my dh is happy.
As a guy I can tell you there is no gentle way of letting a guy know, not only do you think his penis is sub-par, but that you had a more satisfying time with previous partners. In all honesty, for a guy, thats probably one of the worst things they could ever imagine hearing.

I think your getting the response your getting from him because your reasons for not circ'ing have put him on defense. Defense of his beliefs on the male body, and defense of his body and being able to be a good (sexual) lover.
If he agrees to not circ because of your arguments, the only emotional place he has left to go, is where he admits he has been victimized, and has to say there is something wrong with his body.

This is your problem. Because if his circ has caused problems or not, he may not feel that way. From his perspective he may still be really happy with being circumcised, and at the very least its what he identifies with.

If you want this to lead to a positive ending for your whole family (which is important, because families, especially new ones should be united) you need to change your arguments.

Don't argue that one body type is better then another. Make this an argument of personal choice. Talk about the changing rates of circ and who knows what your son wants. And its no big deal, and he should decide.

Take the focus off making a decision, and say that by not circumcising all your doing is not making a decision now. Your putting that decision in the hands of your son.

Talk about early development of the penis, and how its a safe and healthy body part.

Unless you can find ways of making this NOT a value debate then in the end everyone is going to be left emotionally hurt. Also making it a value debate, gives him something to resist against. Make this a decision he will want to make, and not a debate where he feels he HAS to fight against.


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## In Exile (Jan 12, 2007)

Warn everybody in the Hospital that ANYBODY who so much as thinks of circumcision of even retraction will get SUED the living daylights out of them and will never practice again. The person who goes against your wishes will see the Law Suit of a lifetime against them. And yes, draw up a piece of paper and hand that to your OB and give it to the hospital yourself. With that kind of paper nobody would do it.

Give that piece of paper to your Ped. Even though your husband could take him somewhere else for it, at least give those folks the heads up.

A man that would do this behind my back against me would find himself with divorce papers rather quickly. It sounds like a threat but I would be absolutely willing to do that. In fact I told my abusive ex husband:Next time you torture the cat I will resort to legal matters-and I did. I know that seems like a trivial comparison to some- but sometimes we need to learn how so say "no more!".

Honestly, I would rethink my marriage in general if I had to live in fear, that somebody could get hurt. Having lived in fear like that- please stand up for yourself and your child if need be. It sucks,but is so worth it.

Good luck!

Oh and please don't make your son's intact status a direct link to his sexuality-although it's true for you it just builds up walls that most circed guys cannot break through. Make it strictly about your son-not your husband's sexuality, if that seems to be backfiring.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Deep, deep breath.

Read this link (but do *NOT* show it to your dh. It's our little secret.) Read it now. Right now! (Click the link already!)

http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/v...ty_of_men.html

Also, do you have a really good friend/relative who could stay with the babe and help make your wishes known?

If August rolls around and dh still feels the same way, I'd say to him, "If I wake up and our baby is circumcised, I will divorce you, and I mean it."


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## perspective (Nov 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 









Deep, deep breath.

Read this link (but do *NOT* show it to your dh. It's our little secret.) Read it now. Right now! (Click the link already!)

http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/v...ty_of_men.html

Also, do you have a really good friend/relative who could stay with the babe and help make your wishes known?

If August rolls around and dh still feels the same way, I'd say to him, "If I wake up and our baby is circumcised, I will divorce you, and I mean it."

I highly disagree with this link because it creates more barriers in this discussion then it breaks down. Its supposivly the "inside view of a circed guy" yet its not even written by a circed guy.

Following the advice of this article will only lead to further arguments. Its vitally important that people realize that there are many circed men who have no problem with their status (even if that is only because it is the only status they have ever known)

As a cut guy who is against circumcision I can say this link is trying to answer a question in a very simplistic way and this issue is much more complex in the minds of circed men then this article makes it seem.

I only repeat this because I think the OP is at a point where risking her conversations with her husband into further fights is not an option.


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## fruitful womb (Nov 20, 2004)

Take this form and have it signed by a Lawyer. arclaw might help you with the signatures.

That PDF came from this site.

You even have the option to create 'no circ' stickers to place on his diapers and in his bassinet.

Make sure you get the signatures of your baby's doctor and your doctor. All of whom will see the both of you.

Make copies. Keep copies for your records. Send copies to your Lawyer and leave copies to be kept in your hospital files: One for L&D and the other for Pediatrics.

Did someone already suggest you show your dh the penn and teller 'circ is bs' episode yet?


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## Ron_Low (May 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Quirky* 
I am going to tell you this one time and one time only.

Unneccessarily combative.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Quirky* 
Circumcision is not our decision to make for our child. It is his body and his penis and he is the only one who gets to decide whether to cut his foreskin off, when he is an adult.

That's the entire case. End of story.

Maybe I would say "when he's old enough" rather then "when he's an adult."

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Quirky* 
If you go behind my back and violate our child's basic human right to his own bodily self-determination, you will be ending our marriage.

I hate to say this, but the marriage sounds doomed to me. What if the dude actually WANTS out already? We will not have protected the baby by threatening divorce.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Quirky* 
There is nothing to discuss, nothing to debate. I will not listen to threats to do it, and I will not listen to your tantrums.

I'd suggest answering any and all REASONS he might put forth, as there WILL NOT be one that's valid. If he poses one you haven't got a water-tight rebuttal for, don't try to BS around it, say "I think I saw something about that online. I'll write it down so we can discuss it tomorrow."

Good Luck.


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## NaturalMindedMomma (Feb 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Contrariety* 
His insistence to circ would be the end of my marriage, period. I would claim in the hospital that I wasn't really so sure he was the father just to buy some time... something... ANYTHING to keep it from happening.

I would leave DH in a heartbeat if he thought that were an acceptable thing to do to anyone, let alone a newborn babe. I guess if it meant that much to him, he would lose me with the foreskin. I'd be preparing for legal action, if any can be taken before the babe were born.

I'm hardcore about it. It would be THE END OF THE EFFING WORLD if someone were seriously thinking about doing that to my child.

THANK YOU! I was flamed in a DDC the other day for saying the same thing. He doesn't deserve compassion. He is an adult and HE needs to deal with his issues. Your job is to protect your child not your husbands feelings. He is threatening you and your unborn child. This is very serious.


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## NaturalMindedMomma (Feb 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ron_Low* 
Unneccessarily combative.

That's the entire case. End of story.

Maybe I would say "when he's old enough" rather then "when he's an adult."

I hate to say this, but the marriage sounds doomed to me. What if the dude actually WANTS out already? We will not have protected the baby by threatening divorce.

I'd suggest answering any and all REASONS he might put forth, as there WILL NOT be one that's valid. If he poses one you haven't got a water-tight rebuttal for, don't try to BS around it, say "I think I saw something about that online. I'll write it down so we can discuss it tomorrow."

Good Luck.

Let him end it then! I would end the marriage. Firstly, I could not be married to someone who believes in this practice. I would divorce him and file and order of protection. he has threatened this child. PERIOD. My kids come first.


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## NaturalMindedMomma (Feb 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *perspective* 
As a guy I can tell you there is no gentle way of letting a guy know, not only do you think his penis is sub-par, but that you had a more satisfying time with previous partners. In all honesty, for a guy, thats probably one of the worst things they could ever imagine hearing.

I think your getting the response your getting from him because your reasons for not circ'ing have put him on defense. Defense of his beliefs on the male body, and defense of his body and being able to be a good (sexual) lover.
If he agrees to not circ because of your arguments, the only emotional place he has left to go, is where he admits he has been victimized, and has to say there is something wrong with his body.

This is your problem. Because if his circ has caused problems or not, he may not feel that way. From his perspective he may still be really happy with being circumcised, and at the very least its what he identifies with.

If you want this to lead to a positive ending for your whole family (which is important, because families, especially new ones should be united) you need to change your arguments.

Don't argue that one body type is better then another. Make this an argument of personal choice. Talk about the changing rates of circ and who knows what your son wants. And its no big deal, and he should decide.

Take the focus off making a decision, and say that by not circumcising all your doing is not making a decision now. Your putting that decision in the hands of your son.

Talk about early development of the penis, and how its a safe and healthy body part.

Unless you can find ways of making this NOT a value debate then in the end everyone is going to be left emotionally hurt. Also making it a value debate, gives him something to resist against. Make this a decision he will want to make, and not a debate where he feels he HAS to fight against.

So she needs to do all the work, save the family and make better arguments to save him from EMOTIONAL PAIN?? Are you JOKING? HE is causing major stress and emotional pain to the OP and their unborn child.

He needs to get over himself. If my breasts were flawed and I could not feed my child, I would not have the same flaw done surgically to my daughter to make her like me. HE can't admit his anatomy is flawed and it IS. THATS LIFE! It doesn't work properly and it HURTS females in result. So we should stroke their egos so they don't hurt our children behind our back? HE IS AN ADULT. HE IS AN IGNORANT PERSON. HIS EMOTIONAL PAIN IS A RESULT OF HIS OWN IGNORANT ACTIONS. He is being presented with information and ignoring it ALL because he is insecure about his penis. When you have children, it's not about you anymore.


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## Yulia_R (Jan 7, 2006)

I'm so sorry you have to deal with that, mama.

As someone who went through two c-sections, here are a couple advices.

When my dd was born, my son was only 17mo and, unfortunately, would not stay with ANYONE, but me and dh. So dh had to wait with him in the waiting area while I was having a c-section. We did not want our newborn to spend even one minute in the nursery screaming, so we asked our doula to be with the baby all the time till I was done and in my recovery room ready to meet the baby (she never left my chest after that, as didn't my son when he was born, since we demanded (and you have the right to do so) everything to be done in our room, including ped's check ups).

It worked wonderfully. We authorized her to stay with the baby (hold the baby under her sweater) ahead of time and this is exactly what happened. Ahead of time we told nurses that we declined vit K, HepB, eye ointment, bath etc and that we wanted the baby to remain with the doula at all the time till the baby joins me. Our little girl spent about an hour being worn be our doula under her sweater before she could join me.

Other ideas:

To write with a permanent marker on the baby's tummy, NO-Circ, or MOM sues. Or I wonder if it's possible to order custom temporary. tattoos about it (something to explore).

But just like others, I'm not sure I could enjoy family life if my dh was capable of stealing our baby and mutilating him against my wish...


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

You have 6 months, right? I'd keep telling him that _as much as you love him the way he is,_ you're not going to circ your son. If he continues to insist, I'd move into a friend's or family member's house closer to your due date and not even tell him when you went into labor.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *perspective* 
As a guy I can tell you there is no gentle way of letting a guy know, not only do you think his penis is sub-par, but that you had a more satisfying time with previous partners. In all honesty, for a guy, thats probably one of the worst things they could ever imagine hearing.

I think your getting the response your getting from him because your reasons for not circ'ing have put him on defense. Defense of his beliefs on the male body, and defense of his body and being able to be a good (sexual) lover.
If he agrees to not circ because of your arguments, the only emotional place he has left to go, is where he admits he has been victimized, and has to say there is something wrong with his body.
.


And yet, you argue with me every single time I post a link that says, essentially, *THE EXACT SAME THING* that you're saying here.


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## Haselnuss (Sep 20, 2008)

Even if she divorces him, any court will give him visitation, and, during the visitation, he has every opportunity to circumcise the baby.
You also can't take your child out of the country without the father's permission - AFTER the child is born. When you're pregnant, you can go wherever you like... just a thought.


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## NaturalMindedMomma (Feb 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Haselnuss* 
Even if she divorces him, any court will give him visitation, and, during the visitation, he has every opportunity to circumcise the baby.
You also can't take your child out of the country without the father's permission - AFTER the child is born. When you're pregnant, you can go wherever you like... just a thought.

He has threatened to have a surgical procedure against her will. I would think she could get an order of protection against the procedure. If she got a lawyer and I totally would do that.


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## veganf (Dec 12, 2005)

Get a marker and write on baby's skin under his diaper "No circ!"
That should do it!


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## perspective (Nov 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NaturalMindedMomma* 
So she needs to do all the work, save the family and make better arguments to save him from EMOTIONAL PAIN?? Are you JOKING? HE is causing major stress and emotional pain to the OP and their unborn child.

He needs to get over himself. If my breasts were flawed and I could not feed my child, I would not have the same flaw done surgically to my daughter to make her like me. HE can't admit his anatomy is flawed and it IS. THATS LIFE! It doesn't work properly and it HURTS females in result. So we should stroke their egos so they don't hurt our children behind our back? HE IS AN ADULT. HE IS AN IGNORANT PERSON. HIS EMOTIONAL PAIN IS A RESULT OF HIS OWN IGNORANT ACTIONS. He is being presented with information and ignoring it ALL because he is insecure about his penis. *When you have children, it's not about you anymore.*

And that last statement in bold is exactly my point. This is not about him, and what he wants, BUT its also not just what the mother wants either.In the end her position is right because it allows the child the most free-will and control over his own body.
But you do not understand is he probably feels like there is nothing wrong with his penis. So saying so, is only going to sound insulting, and is not going to resolve anything. She does not have to do "all the work" she just has to do a good job of explaining her points, and obviously so far she hasn't.

This is a marriage they have going here, and what comes along with that is discussion. Any parent (or partner in marriage) who comes into a problem and says "its my way or the highway" is acting destructively. No matter how right they may be. As a partner you have the RESPONSIBILITY to explain your points, especially when it comes to something thats important. Shutting your ears and walking away because things do not get resolved in the first discussion is not an option.

Now its true such an action would be easier. The task of discussion, explanation, and understanding do involve work, but often they are a required part of partnership. If thats something you personally are unwilling to take part in, then a sperm bank may be a better bet for you. But the OP is trying to have an adult discussion with her DH and up until now they have not found a way of connecting on this subject. And I hope (besides the legal "just in case advise") we can provide advice that can help her reach her goal.


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## SleeplessMommy (Jul 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fruitful womb* 
Take this form and have it signed by a Lawyer. arclaw might help you with the signatures.
...

Make sure you get the signatures of your baby's doctor and your doctor. All of whom will see the both of you.


Above looks like a pretty good option. She has until August to educate her husband on the benefits of intactness for the baby...


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## perspective (Nov 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
And yet, you argue with me every single time I post a link that says, essentially, *THE EXACT SAME THING* that you're saying here.









Nope, your link makes the point that deep down inside most circed guys believe their penis is broken. And they continue circing because then they dont have to admit their feelings about their penis.

I totally disagree. As a circed guy against infant circ, and one who has talked to a lot of guys on this subject, I can tell you most circed guys dont look at themselves this way. And this "inside perspective of a circed guy" article is written by a guy thats fully intact!

The difference here is I am making the point that you tell anyone their body is sub-par, they will get defensive with you.

There is no reason to make this discussion harder then it needs to be.

Say if I wanted my future wife to breast feed, yet she did not want to. I could say "well, you should breast feed, because in society women are just baby makers, and that its your responsibility. You have the body parts, so now go do it!"
Such a response would make breast feeding seem like something that further takes away her identity as a person. And using such reasoning would probably push her farther away from the idea entirely.

Or I could make it a lot easier and just say " Breast milk is the best for the baby" and make an argument from that point of view. And in the end she would probably be much more receptive.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Haselnuss* 
Even if she divorces him, any court will give him visitation, and, during the visitation, he has every opportunity to circumcise the baby.
.

But it may make him realize how serious she is (and the situation is) when she says she'll divorce him over it.


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## Erinz (Mar 1, 2006)

OP, I am so sorry you are having to deal with this emotionally draining situation. I'm not in your shoes so I can't say with certainty what I would do to be honest. From your explanation of his stance, it sounds to me as if this can't be the only circumstance where there is turmoil in your marriage.

Hugs. Let's hope for a *girl*.

I know that doesn't solve anything but frankly I don't think the rest of the rhetoric will either. Again, hugs.


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## Quickbeam (Jan 6, 2009)

I have been thinking about you and your situation all day. I feel the way that Quirky feels, but I think Greg offered the best strategy (for now).

What concerns me is the willingness on DH's part to violate your trust and sneak around you to accomplish his will. Is he speaking in the heat of the moment or is he a person who would do such a thing? Only you can answer that question.

Just for full disclosure of bias, I would never divorce my husband; our marriage is a Sacrament. But I would protect my children from him if I felt I had to, and I would separate from him indefinitely if he persisted in deceiving me and abusing our children.

I adamantly hope the best for you and your baby and your family.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Even with an order of protection he could take the baby to almost any pediatritions office and have the proceedure done since that office will have no knowledge of that protection and what has been going on.

I agree it might make him see how serious you are but it will in no way gaurentee that your ds will be protected









I hope that you are able to get through to him in the next few months


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## plunky (Aug 23, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mi.birthdoula* 

The thing that completely blows my mind is that (this is going to get into some sexual topics) dh knows that I have a hard time being completely satisfied with him all the time and he is constantly complaining about it. When we were discussing the circe issue, I brought up (in a very gentle and caring way) that I had been with an intact man before, and it is very different for not only the man but also the woman. I don't want to take away my sons' and future partners full pleasure just so my dh is happy.

I can't imagine being with a woman that was not sexually compatible with me. I am circumcised and my wife does not have this problem. Blaming this problem on your DH being circ'd is an enormous logical jump when there are so many other factors that could be the problem. He cannot fix that he is circ'd. You are putting him in a very defensive place by doing this.


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## plunky (Aug 23, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *perspective* 
But you do not understand is he probably feels like there is nothing wrong with his penis. So saying so, is only going to sound insulting, and is not going to resolve anything. She does not have to do "all the work" she just has to do a good job of explaining her points, and obviously so far she hasn't.


This is a very good way of saying what I try to say on this board from time to time. There is nothing wrong with my penis. It functions properly. But the act of cutting it was wrong and unnecessary.


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## mi.birthdoula (Jun 12, 2008)

I thank everyone for your advice. Here is a little more information...

I have shown him the Penn & teller video, and I only resorted to the sexual topic as a last resort when he was getting very beligerent & degrading to me. I do not blame the whole issue of me not being completely satisfied all the time just on the fact that he is circed, there is a lot more to it, and I have pointed it out to him (ex, him just not that into relations to begin with.) I am satisfied with him a lot of the time, just not always and he knows this. I have rebutted every argument that he makes with information and facts.

I'm not too worried about him doing it after we leave the hospital.

Also, I really do love him, and as a previous poster stated marriage is a Sacrement. After having a very deep discussion with him over the weekend about other topics, I have learned there was a lot more going on with him mentally...He has been on holiday from work since Dec, and was slated to return to work today, however he received the call that he was laid off the same day we started disscussing the circ issue. He said that he shouldn't have kept it from me, and that he also should not have taken it out on me and the topic like he did. Now that I know exactly what was going on that day, I feel like we just had a bad start to discussing it. We have decided to table the issue for a few weeks, and then revisit it, and go over all the information together. I really do believe that he will come around. He even said that he was on the defensive because if we had a son and choose to leave him intact, that he would feel terrrible about having his son (my stepson) circ'd. I told him I understand, and we can work through the emotions together to get to the best decision for our son and family.

again, thank you to everyone for all the info and support!


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## peainthepod (Jul 16, 2008)

He sounds like a reasonable man and I'm glad he was able to admit that there was more going on than just an adamant refusal to hear your side of the argument. I think if you just ask him to show you one single medical organization that recommends routine circumcision on male babies, he might be surprised. There is simply no medical reason to do it, and it's really hard to advocate for a painful cosmetic procedure to be done on a helpless baby without some sort of medical justification.










ETA: There's no medical reason to do it routinely; obviously, it can be necessitated by certain medical conditions.


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## Cheshire (Dec 14, 2004)

That is great news!!! As for his first son it depends on a couple of things. First, will he even notice that his half-brother is intact. If he does notice a difference and he asks about it how old is he at the time. If he is younger I'd just state the fact that he wasn't circ'd after he was born. If he asks more questions DH can say that you and he decided together not to have it done.

If first son asks when he is older why he was circ'd and half-brother wasn't DH can tell him "when you know better you do better. When you were born we thought it was the best decision for you and when half-brother was born we thought not circ'ing was the best decision for him." He does not have to defend his actions to his first son. He can say that he wishes he had more info when he was born but he made the best decision at the time. (granted, he probably could have found the info if he had done a little research but he doesn't have to get into all that - what's done is done and if first son wants to restore then you can talk to him about it when he's older).

And, I'm really sorry to hear about your DH losing his job. Best wishes to you guys.


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## littlemizflava (Oct 8, 2006)

i would contune the quest to change his mind. would write a letter saying if my child is circ i will sue give it to the hospital when you are booking and the dr at first visit. if at the birth you keep saying no circ no circ and you still have fears if it was me i would write on my son no circ with permanent marker. i really would and would do the same with the cloth diapers i would write on them. they have to take it off before and if it is on his skin they cant say they didnt see it. yes at all cost.


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## Fellow Traveler (Jan 8, 2008)

Sound's like you got to the bottom of this and know where to go from here. I bet he is a great reasonable guy. I think a little at a time will work for you. Keep in mind that what was done before isn't relevant. Tell him it a when you know better you do better situation. Though perhaps you might want to couch that differently.


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## Erinz (Mar 1, 2006)

What a great update! Made me glad to read it


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## KBecks (Jan 3, 2007)

I'm so happy that you have had a better conversation with him and I wish you the best as you two move forward. A lot of guys talk a big game and will issue emotional comments like that when they have no intention of actually backing it up with whatever action.

I hope you have a wonderful pregnancy and that it all works out for you! It is not his fault that he is circed, so have compassion for him and realize you don't need him to be against circ, he just needs to feel OK with having an intact son. That's an easier place for him to get to.

Best wishes!! I am sorry about the work stress your DH is going through, that can be extremely difficult and a huge burden to a man's ego, especially when thinking about providing for a new baby. It is very, very difficult. My husband has been through layoffs twice and it truly sucks when it's happening. Hang in there, be supportive, and in the end be strong about keeping your son intact.

Definitely let the hospital, your OB and your pediatricians know your wishes in advance.


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## NaturalMindedMomma (Feb 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *plunky* 
This is a very good way of saying what I try to say on this board from time to time. There is nothing wrong with my penis. It functions properly. But the act of cutting it was wrong and unnecessary.

Yes, there is dear. An intact penis functions properly, a circed one is missing important components that inhibit it's true capabilities. Ignoring this makes you much less of an intactivist. There are facts to SUPPORT this and you are ignoring them. They are important to convincing the appropriate people that there is no reason to circ. Your penis is ok because you know no different. Your wife not having the problem does not indicate that it doesn't exist. Just because one person out of MILLIONS of others doesn't experience something doesn't make it not true. Also there have been studies that show FUTURE damage to the female genatalia as well. It was posted here and removed because it showed sexual intercourse and was considered pornography.


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## NaturalMindedMomma (Feb 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *perspective* 
And that last statement in bold is exactly my point. This is not about him, and what he wants, BUT its also not just what the mother wants either.In the end her position is right because it allows the child the most free-will and control over his own body.
But you do not understand is he probably feels like there is nothing wrong with his penis. So saying so, is only going to sound insulting, and is not going to resolve anything. She does not have to do "all the work" she just has to do a good job of explaining her points, and obviously so far she hasn't.

This is a marriage they have going here, and what comes along with that is discussion. Any parent (or partner in marriage) who comes into a problem and says "its my way or the highway" is acting destructively. No matter how right they may be. As a partner you have the RESPONSIBILITY to explain your points, especially when it comes to something thats important. Shutting your ears and walking away because things do not get resolved in the first discussion is not an option.

Now its true such an action would be easier. The task of discussion, explanation, and understanding do involve work, but often they are a required part of partnership. If thats something you personally are unwilling to take part in, then a sperm bank may be a better bet for you. But the OP is trying to have an adult discussion with her DH and up until now they have not found a way of connecting on this subject. And I hope (besides the legal "just in case advise") we can provide advice that can help her reach her goal.

Um he has not effectively gotten his point across either.

I was not saying that your argument was in totality wrong. I wanted to make that clear. She HAS discussed it with him and while a man who is circed may be offended by her reasoning, it is HER REASONING and good reasoning at that. If he is offended, that is something he needs to get over for the better of his son.

She is talking, but in the end, if the man I was married to would not agree, I would divorce him to take all routes to protect my baby. Saying my way or the highway is destructive for who, in this case, not my sons genitalia and that is my goal!







Not to help my partner get over his issue, ulitmately.

Are your comments about a sperm bank towards me individually? I have a DF who is the father of my child. He is someone I am extremely compatible with and made sure before I made the decision to even date him. We discussed my parenting and beliefs and with some informative conversations, he agreed with me on everything. I believe in the sanctity of marriage. But I believe more in the protection of the children that came from my body. Mutilating them is wrong and I will protect them against it. Just the same if he was abusing them in some other way. I do have wonderful intelligent conversations with my DF, we do from time to time disagree on things and we communicate effectively to resolve conflict. But if it came down to it, I would do whatever I had to to protect my son. If that makes me less of a wife and more of a mother, I AM FREAKING PROUD!


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

well its good that he is willing to continue the discussion. so he doesn't want to leave your son intact b/c he would then feel horrible for circing your stepson? does he actually think that circing your son would make circing your stepson somehow less horrible? i doubt it. which is good b/c that probably means he will come around. i would still take precautions though... better safe then sorry.


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## 3pink1blue (Jun 23, 2008)

I had my son at a large hospital in Michigan, and my DH and I had to be on the same page about everything. For example, the Hep B shot. We declined it, but in order to decline, they needed both signatures. On the circumcision form (which I never saw beforehand but was in our chart with big red REFUSED on it) there were also spaces for both parents to sign.

So, if you happen to be delivering in the gigantic hospital complex in Grand Rapids, you know they won't do it with just dad's consent. They need both.

Good luck, and congrats on your upcoming addition!


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

My DH wanted our littlest babe circumcised, but I absolutely refused. I can't imagine him threatening to do it against my wishes. That would probably be grounds for divorce, honestly. It's basically saying he doesn't care what you want for your own child. When raising a child together, tons of issues are bound to come up that you guys disagree on--is he going to insist on having his way every single time, even if he has to do things behind your back?


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## lizziejackie (Jun 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TeresaZofia* 
See if you can consult a lawyer. I'd let your husband and pediatrician know that you would be planning on taking legal action against them if your ds is circ'd without your consent.

That's what I did. Wrote the hospital, well in advance, that I personally would take legal action against it if Grant was circ'd w/out my consent. Asked for that to be put in the file (it was). That makes the hospital pay attention.

As for after the baby was born...I hadn't really thought about that, but it takes more work to get them taken in, etc., so I knew the DH probably didn't have that in him. If I were you, I'd also write all your peditricians, urologists, etc., everyplace that he could possibly take the baby.

You have my thoughts and hugs. I was in your spot 2.5 years ago and it's very stressful. I know it's an awful position to be in.


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## mi.birthdoula (Jun 12, 2008)

Just an update...dh and I talked last night after having an ultrasound, and we will not be circing. It was decided together, so I know that he is now with me on this. I let him hear (I read aloud) all the info that ACOG, AAP, and many other organizations gave on the topic, and let him know that I would like to at least let the child make his own decision when he was of legal age. In so letting him know that there was no reason why I would degrade my son if that was what HE choose, but I do not think the decision to permanetly change a person for cosmetic reasons without their consent is either of ours to make. He was very level headed about the whole thing, and agreed completely after actually listening and contemplating the risks' and benefits'. If our son chooses (at a time that he is able to understand the total ramifications of the procedure) to go ahead with it, we will be there to support HIS decisions whatever they may be.


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## zoshamosha (Apr 15, 2006)

:







:







:







:







:







:


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## ~Boudicca~ (Sep 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mi.birthdoula* 
Just an update...dh and I talked last night after having an ultrasound, and we will not be circing. It was decided together, so I know that he is now with me on this. I let him hear (I read aloud) all the info that ACOG, AAP, and many other organizations gave on the topic, and let him know that I would like to at least let the child make his own decision when he was of legal age. In so letting him know that there was no reason why I would degrade my son if that was what HE choose, but I do not think the decision to permanetly change a person for cosmetic reasons without their consent is either of ours to make. He was very level headed about the whole thing, and agreed completely after actually listening and contemplating the risks' and benefits'. If our son chooses (at a time that he is able to understand the total ramifications of the procedure) to go ahead with it, we will be there to support HIS decisions whatever they may be.

Whew!

Glad everything turned out ok.

And call me paranoid...but I would still make sure that you write all over the place on your birth plan that there will be no circumcision without your consent.


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## mi.birthdoula (Jun 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *honeydee* 

And call me paranoid...but I would still make sure that you write all over the place on your birth plan that there will be no circumcision without your consent.

Oh, we definitely are. We even talked today about it, and he even agreed that he should give the babe the first bath, and no eye drops, vit k, or anything (he already fully supports exclusive bf because of our 2 dd's.) I feel like he has had a revelation or something. I know he did spend Monday with his father, so maybe that had something to do with it. I absolutely LOVE my FIL to death. He is such a wonderful man who helps us get through any though times, in fact I would be pretty sure he had a lot to do with it all.


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

:

so glad to hear your update! definitely still make sure everyone in the hospital is told again, and again, and again. Our littlest one was thisclose to being vaccinated for hep b in the hospital, even with signs all over the place reminding them not to.


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## bugmenot (May 29, 2005)

I agree with a lot of others.

If the husband wanted to mutilate the baby's penis, get out of that situation. Would he stop at the penis, or would he alter the baby in other ways as well?


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## fruitful womb (Nov 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mi.birthdoula* 
Oh, we definitely are. We even talked today about it, and he even agreed that he should give the babe the first bath, and no eye drops, vit k, or anything (he already fully supports exclusive bf because of our 2 dd's.) I feel like he has had a revelation or something. I know he did spend Monday with his father, so maybe that had something to do with it. I absolutely LOVE my FIL to death. He is such a wonderful man who helps us get through any though times, in fact I would be pretty sure he had a lot to do with it all.

This is wonderful news!







:


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## 2lilsweetfoxes (Apr 11, 2005)

One thing I don't get about people advocating to just leave the husband in this type of circumstance--what is going to stop him from just taking the baby to a pediatrician and having it done during a visitation? I ask this because that is something to consider...

(My husband was very much wanting our son to be circumcised, also. Because he was in Iraq at the time of our son's birth, and I was still undecided, our son remained intact. I went on an unaccompanied hardship tour to Korea a couple years back, when our son was 3. If circumcision was really *that* important to my husband, what was there to stop him from getting it done while I was out of the country for a year? I certainly wasn't there. I will admit to a little concern that I'd get back and Bubba would be circumcised, except for the fact that DH does not seek out medical attention unless necessary--but if there had been a "problem" and the recommendation was to circ, he probably would schedule it rather than get a second opinion. Or getting it done while I'm at work one day--he's a SAHD)


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## mi.birthdoula (Jun 12, 2008)

This is not something that I have to worry about because I am a sahm, and I always take the kids to the doc. My dh doesn't like docs to begin with, and I have to force him tooth and nail to even get him to accompany me to the office with the kids once in awhile. I trust him to his word, as he has never violated that trust before. He has even stood up to his mother defending our choice already, so I think that as more and more time goes on, he may evan become an intactivist.

I thank you for your concern, but this issue has been put to rest.


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## dinahx (Sep 17, 2005)

This is scary! If my husband threatend to go 'over my head' in a medical decision when I was sleeping, this is what I would do, please listen, IMO this is VERY serious:

I would call the local Domestic Violence hotline/shelter. If in your opinion Circ is harming yoru child, and your DH is threatening to do it w/o your consent. THAT IS ABUSE!!!! It is at least emotional abuse, with threats of physical abuse. I would get a legal restraining order and make sure everyone in the hospital knows about it. And I would personally call every urologist in a 40 mile radius and inform them of the situation. There is nothing about my safety and my children's saftey that I take at all lightly and no one harms a child of mine behind my back, while I am sleeping.

You can prevent this, but I personally think you should take him at his word and act accordingly. And YES, your doctor, the hospital, everyone should know about the situation. Their job is to protect you and the baby. YES VERY abusive husbands have done this behind their wife's back before, but that is NO reason to allow it to happen to you. He has given you a warning, that is lucky, heed that warning and protect your child.

And yes, I agree with PPs. Even threats of this nature would have me questioning my relationship, and doing it behind my back would not only be ground for divorce, but arrest and a lawsuit for both the husband and the cooperating doctor.


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## dinahx (Sep 17, 2005)

ETA: Read your update, so glad! Seems like the situation resolved itself. Yay! I would still take the precaution of informing the doctor/hospital, though.


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## Yulia_R (Jan 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mi.birthdoula* 
Just an update...dh and I talked last night after having an ultrasound, and we will not be circing. It was decided together, so I know that he is now with me on this. I let him hear (I read aloud) all the info that ACOG, AAP, and many other organizations gave on the topic, and let him know that I would like to at least let the child make his own decision when he was of legal age. In so letting him know that there was no reason why I would degrade my son if that was what HE choose, but I do not think the decision to permanetly change a person for cosmetic reasons without their consent is either of ours to make. He was very level headed about the whole thing, and agreed completely after actually listening and contemplating the risks' and benefits'. If our son chooses (at a time that he is able to understand the total ramifications of the procedure) to go ahead with it, we will be there to support HIS decisions whatever they may be.


Wonderful! I'm so happy to hear! Yeah for you and your dh!


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## loveyourohana (Jul 14, 2008)

Have you considered having your baby at home or in a birthing center with a midwife? Cant really do a routine circ. if the place you decide to give birth, doesn't offer it


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Great news you guys worked it out!


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## perspective (Nov 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dinahx* 
This is scary! If my husband threatend to go 'over my head' in a medical decision when I was sleeping, this is what I would do, please listen, IMO this is VERY serious:

I would call the local Domestic Violence hotline/shelter. If in your opinion Circ is harming yoru child, and your DH is threatening to do it w/o your consent. THAT IS ABUSE!!!! It is at least emotional abuse, with threats of physical abuse. I would get a legal restraining order and make sure everyone in the hospital knows about it. And I would personally call every urologist in a 40 mile radius and inform them of the situation. There is nothing about my safety and my children's saftey that I take at all lightly and no one harms a child of mine behind my back, while I am sleeping.

You can prevent this, but I personally think you should take him at his word and act accordingly. And YES, your doctor, the hospital, everyone should know about the situation. Their job is to protect you and the baby. YES VERY abusive husbands have done this behind their wife's back before, but that is NO reason to allow it to happen to you. He has given you a warning, that is lucky, heed that warning and protect your child.

I guess you did not read the posts above, but after having open communication with her husband, the situation has been resolved. Its now a three person team, not just baby and mom, but baby, Dad, and Mom.

To the OP- congratz!! I hope everything else in this baby process goes smoothly for you!


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## Fyrestorm (Feb 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loveyourohana* 
Have you considered having your baby at home or in a birthing center with a midwife? Cant really do a routine circ. if the place you decide to give birth, doesn't offer it









The birth center in my area has a midwife that offers circumcision. They do it immediately after birth so mama and newly mutilated baby can still go home within 12 hours.

I guess they cut the cord then cut the babe all in one fell swoop so they can watch them both for bleeding before sending them on their merry way.


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## dogmom327 (Apr 19, 2007)

I'll admit that I'd probably do as Quikry suggested.


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## fruitful womb (Nov 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Fyrestorm* 
The birth center in my area has a midwife that offers circumcision. They do it immediately after birth so mama and newly mutilated baby can still go home within 12 hours.

I guess they cut the cord then cut the babe all in one fell swoop so they can watch them both for bleeding before sending them on their merry way.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I recently discovered that a well-loved birth center here offers circs.

Makes me ill.

-Angela


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## kiara7 (Feb 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Fyrestorm* 
The birth center in my area has a midwife that offers circumcision. They do it immediately after birth so mama and newly mutilated baby can still go home within 12 hours.

I guess they cut the cord then cut the babe all in one fell swoop so they can watch them both for bleeding before sending them on their merry way.









:


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