# WWYD? Stranger intervening in tantrum



## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

EnviroKid is two-and-a-half. On our way to a bus stop, we needed to cross a street, and since there were no cars coming I decided to cross even though the Don't Walk sign was lit. I didn't explain this decision, and halfway across EnviroKid noticed the sign and began protesting.







Bad Mama! I admitted my mistake and cooperated with his demand that we do it again and get it right: When the Walk sign came on, we crossed back to where we had been, then back again toward the bus stop.

Okay? No. I guess it's because he was upset about my mistake that he asked to be picked up and flipped out when I wouldn't. We were only 20 feet from the bus stop, and I already was carrying two heavy bags, so I told him I could not pick him up and he needed to walk. He stopped right there and began howling as I walked to the stop and sat down.

Now, first of all, WWYD about this tantrum? It went on for maybe 10 minutes as I sat on the bench, saying, "Please come sit with me." and holding out my arms. He was within my sight the whole time, wasn't hurting himself, and was keeping back from the street and out of the way of pedestrians. (It's a wide sidewalk.) Some of the people in the area were looking at me as if I ought to Do Something. The only other option that came to mind was to leave my bags on the bench, go get EnviroKid, and carry him over to the bench. While that would work around my objection to carrying him and the bags at the same time, it might work against my goal of raising someone who walks on his own and doesn't use screaming as a means of getting what he wants. So I didn't do it.

Meanwhile, an older lady came along, noticed him, looked around to identify who was his parent, and then crouched down about 5 feet from him and held out her arms as if to hug him or pick him up. He backed away. She moved closer but wasn't touching him. He covered his head with his arms, backed into the hedge, and bellowed, "GO AWAY!!!" I was about to get up and lead him away from her when she got up and came over to me. Without speaking to or even making eye contact with me, she leaned over and put her hands on my shoulders, kind of half-hugging, and gave EnviroKid a big smile and said, "See? I am nice person!"








: I had no idea what to do!! She had a heavy Russian accent, and I've seen that old ladies recently arrived from Russia (there are a lot of them around here) seem to expect young children to love and trust them immediately--for example, when EnviroKid and I get on a bus and there are no seats available, often Russian ladies offer to have him sit on their laps! I figured she meant well, but she was freaking us out!

I said, "Oh, it's all right. He's just upset that I wouldn't carry him from there to here." I couldn't tell if she understood me or not. She let go of me but stayed too close, asking "How old?" and "Boy or girl?" Then she went on her way, smiling and waving at both of us.

By then the bus was coming, so I picked up the bags, flagged down the bus, picked up the squalling toddler in an undignified fashion, apologized to the bus driver for the noise, sat down with EnviroKid on my lap, and said, "I hear that you are upset. That is too loud a noise to make inside a bus." He quieted slightly, then noticed some passing scenery and started chatting about that. All was well.









This was on Friday, and since then he's told the story of crossing the street several times, going over how Mama did it wrong, he saw the sign, Mama agreed that we were doing it wrong, and we did it again the right way. He seems to need to work through something about that. But he has not mentioned the woman. Even when I told EnviroDaddy the whole story and we discussed it at some length in front of EnviroKid, he did not seem particularly interested. So I guess it didn't traumatize him!

EnviroDaddy says he would not have been anything resembling polite to this woman. The moment she approached our child without approaching a parent first, he'd have been over there yelling, "Get away from my child or I'll call the police!!!"

I don't know...I think it was inappropriate for her to approach him, to move closer when he backed away, to touch me without talking to me first, to try to mislead my child into thinking I knew her...but is it really necessary to react with terrified hostility? The one thing I feel sure I did wrong is that I didn't pull away or otherwise make it clear that I didn't like her grabbing my shoulders. My kid stood up for his personal boundaries better than I did! But I wasn't really upset (just startled) so was a big reaction necessary?








: What would you do?


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## Finch (Mar 4, 2005)

It sounds like in this case it was a matter of cultural differences, to be honest. Yes, her behavior seriously weirded me out just reading it, BUT...in some cultures behavior like that towards strangers' children is seen as helpful, not intrusive and weird.

I dunno. I'd be willing to bet that in this case, it's simply how she was brought up/what she is used to, not her trying to cross boundaries. I think your reaction was fine, you didn't make a huge scene, which I don't think was necessary. What did EnviroKid do when the lady touched him?


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## WonderWild (May 13, 2004)

I probably would not have made a big deal about her. I don't like people touching me either and I may have pulled away from her. But, if your instinct is telling you that all it boils down to is that she's "one of those harmless old ladies from Russia" that you've seen in your area before and you're not scared by her, I think you did fine.


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## purposefulmother (Feb 28, 2007)

Threatening to call police when a well-meaning stranger tries to calm an obviously upset child seems to be a big over-reaction. She wasn't trying to correct your parenting or harm your child. At the most, I might have said, "Oh, I'm sorry, we've taught him not to go to strangers."

If I were in that situation I probably would have struck up a conversation with her; asked her is she had children/grandchildren, where she was from, etc. Experienced mamas and grandmas are a terrific ally and ime kids generally like them when they are introduced in a calm setting. I don't know, I think it was kind of sweet that she was trying to help. So many people don't want to get involved when they see an upset child, and here was a lady trying to make the situation happier.

My family is Hispanic and much more likely to touch a stranger's child than some, umm, other families. Part of our family culture is to touch (and sometimes) indulge children, offering them little gums or stickers, patting them on the head and back. It's not meant to alarm or intrude, just a sign of affection. We call it being friendly.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Its funny how people go on and on about how "it takes a village" but as soon as someone tries to be that village we all freak out and run for cover. I am just as guilty.

Her behavior sounds pretty normal. America is a very hands off, mind your own business sort of place. the rest of the world, especially for the grannies it seems, there is much more team player mentality. I mean who doesn't love a grannie?

i think she was just trying to help in her way. I wouldn't worry abut and your son didn't seem that offended or traumatized (he was probably more mad that his tantrum was being interrupted than he was upset about a nice but unfamiliar old lady approaching him.)

As for the tantrum I think you handled fine. outside of sitting on him what more could you do.







The other day my 7 year old (oh yeah - 7!) laid down in the middle of the Target parking lot. so i went to grab her but the cart started rolling away - with my 4 year old in it. So I left lily in the middle of the street screaming laying flat on her back to run after Ava who was about to start picking up some real speed. No one offered any sort of help but if some stranger had swooped her up and deposited her in our car I don't care how much it ticked her off I would have been thankful for the help. If she doesn't want strangers stepping in she should refrain from such hissy fits. (granted your child is much younger than mine). that said i would certainly ask permission before touching other peoples children even in a situation to me that seemed safety related (well this one little kid was running away from his pregnant mom once and I scooped him up and deposited him in her arms. but we weren't total strangers either.) actually I probably wouldn't even ask. People tend to get so offended when you offer help. better just to mind your own business.


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## wildmonkeys (Oct 4, 2004)

I think it sounds like you handled the tantrum fine. Public tantrums stink and it is awesome that you remained calm with an audience.

As for the woman - I agree it sounds cultural - we are crazy hands off in America. She was probably trying to help.

Hats off to you - sounds like you handled a tough day well!


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

That's consistant with her culture, both the ease of approaching 'strange' children and the personal space issue, at least what I have observed here.

I wouldn't tell you to ignore an instinct to call the police or whatever, but would caution you to not expect much from them with something like this, unless you wanted to try to file assault charges. I wouldn't expect that to go far, realistically. To be honest, I think people would most likely react negatively/protectively towards an elderly woman being approched by an angry, shouting young man, so your partner might also want to consider that risk. I don't really feel that his reaction would help the situation, it may indeed cause escalation or injury (especially to the elderly stranger). While I do feel that we have broad license to protect our children, I don't think that gives us carte blanche to do whatever we like when there is no immediate threat of danger. Especially at a bus stop, which I assume is next to a busy roadway. Shouting and acting in a threatening manner at someone who doesn't speak much of the language next to a busy street seems like a recipe for disaster, not to mention that the kid might be stressed/shocked/frightened by his dad's reaction. However, I also realize that lots of people say they would do X Y and Z, but when they're IN the situation and have all the cues available in the environment, they react differently.

I think you handled it efficiently and calmly and correctly. I think your DP's stated reaction would have been frightening and potentially dangerous for everyone involved. But again, I take that kind of statement well salted, unless he's the type to go off the deep end at the slightest provocation.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

It's a little uncomfortable to have a complete stranger touch you, I agree. But, to be rude to a well meaning older woman is way overracting.

WHen my daughter was three, her daddy took her to the mall. Wonderdad thought it would be fun to play hide and seek in Mervyns.

Wonderdad was a very good hider, because my three year old child could not find him. So, since they were headed to the pretzle place next she decided to go there to see if Daddy was already there. Wonderdad was still hiding in a rack of clothes when my child left Mervyns and headed out into the crowded mall alone.

Thank God for a well meaning older woman who was watching, and followed my daughter out of the store too. (leaving all of her shopping on a rack) She followed my dd for a while until she could see in my dd's face that she had realized she was lost.

I had always taught her to go to someone who works at the store and ask for help. It never occured to me to teach her to ask a Mom or a Grandma. But, this well meaning older woman, carried my dd high on her shoulders so Wonder Dad would eventually see her, and come rescue her.

I am very thankful to that woman.

I also think that while a parent has the right to make choices for their children, it isn't always the right choice. We as seasoned older moms have every right to "watch" and be a second set of eyes. She may have been concerned that your son was going to dart off into traffic.

So, to be rude to a well meaning woman who just wants your child to be safe, would have possibly caused her to look the other way the next time. Someone could be injured or lost because there were no concerned people who cared about a child's safety.

In the long run, you handled it perfectly. That's probably what most of us would do. I bet even if your husband was in the same situation, he would have done the same thing you did.


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## katheek77 (Mar 13, 2007)

Sounds cultural.

When DD was ten days old, I was holding her in the grocery store, and this older Chinese lady came over and began cooing at her, and touching her, and giving her little kisses on her feet (which, honestly, I'm fine with people touching and talking to my baby, so, I didn't care).

And then about fifteen seconds later her (American) husband came over, and began apologizing profusely, and telling her she couldn't do that here, and he started talking about when they took their kids to China, basically strangers would just pick their children up and carry them around to show to THEIR friends, and so on and so forth.


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## mommato5 (Feb 19, 2007)

I think it was very nice and sweet of her to try and help. I, too, think that if your DP had reacted, nothing good would of come of it. If I have elderly people talk to me or try and give me a hand, i am always thankful. I've had elderly men offer to hold a child so i can get groceries on the counter, help me carry stuff out, even one bought my kids each a sucker! She really wanted to help and you did handle it wonderfully!!

I think this world would be a better place if more people were willing to accept help and more were willing to help!!


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## november21 (Feb 14, 2007)

You know this is an ugly world - so many cold hearted, uncaring people. It's not often we come across good people. Loving people.

How sad that a person who has a kind heart, a beautiful caring heart "freaks someone out". It's not people like that who freak me out - it's people who are afraid of human kindness- human touch.

Babies/children are the hope of the future, personally when people coo at, touch or smile or hug my chilren I am touched.

Yes indeed if more people were NOT afraid of loving or being loved the world would be a better place.


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

Screaming "Go away or I'll call the police" would have been huge overkill. Your gut told you she was harmless....listen to the gut


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## fishface (Jan 6, 2007)

Quote:

Threatening to call police when a well-meaning stranger tries to calm an obviously upset child seems to be a big over-reaction. She wasn't trying to correct your parenting or harm your child. At the most, I might have said, "Oh, I'm sorry, we've taught him not to go to strangers."
Agreed.

I'm sorry it freaked you out so much. It shouldn't have. I understand the frustration of having full hands AND a squawking kid, but that gives you no reason to fear a woman trying to give your kid a friendly hello to distract him. (I know she did touch you, but like you said, it was a half hug deal. Just being friendly.


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## miss_sonja (Jun 15, 2003)

I think it's nice that she came up to you. She wasn't judging or accusing you of bad parenting, but rather tried to help in a gentle way. This is something we've all talked about doing here, such as when someone seems to be having a hard time with their kid(s) and perhaps seems ready to hit. Many suggestions involve going up to the parent and empathizing. Sounds like that's what this lady was doing.

I'd accept it as part of the Village, as a kind gesture. And let it go.


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## jeca (Sep 21, 2002)

It really doesn't seem like any kind of big deal to me. I don't see what the issue is. I understand that he was freaked put and rightly so but this woman did absolutely nothing wrong, she didn't touch him and turned to you to show him that she wasn't trying to hurt him. I feel like i am missing something. I think you handled the situation very well as did the sweet lady who took a moment to try to help a frazzled child.

I agree with the previous poster who made the village comment.


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## L&IsMama (Jan 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *miss_sonja* 
I think it's nice that she came up to you. She wasn't judging or accusing you of bad parenting, but rather tried to help in a gentle way. This is something we've all talked about doing here, such as when someone seems to be having a hard time with their kid(s) and perhaps seems ready to hit. Many suggestions involve going up to the parent and empathizing. Sounds like that's what this lady was doing.

I'd accept it as part of the Village, as a kind gesture. And let it go.

That ^. I think it was kinda sweet of her. I agree it is cultural as well. I certainly would not flip on an elderly lady and tell her to "get away from my child or I'm calling the police" for trying to be nice to my child.







:


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## lovingmommyhood (Jul 28, 2006)

Seems to me she was just trying to be nice. What a nice change from the usual sideways glances a mother has to endure during a public tantrum. Sounds like she was really sweet and trying to be friendly.









I feel sorry for any nice old lady that encounters your DP though... sheesh!


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## lovingmommyhood (Jul 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nextcommercial* 
But, this well meaning older woman, carried my dd high on her shoulders so Wonder Dad would eventually see her, and come rescue her.

That's so nice! How refreshing. I love when people go out of their way to help each other.


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## Kailey's mom (Apr 19, 2007)

Sounds harmless, It makes my grandmother's day when she is around children, she loves babys/kids and seriously every time I bring her to the grocery she manages to find a mother to talk to, and a little one to guak over







and now a great-grandaughter to brag about







I love my grandma to death but sometimes worry that she's going to rub the wrong babies head and piss off a parent one day, but I hope not.


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## Kailey's mom (Apr 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommato5* 
I think it was very nice and sweet of her to try and help. I, too, think that if your DP had reacted, nothing good would of come of it. If I have elderly people talk to me or try and give me a hand, i am always thankful. I've had elderly men offer to hold a child so i can get groceries on the counter, help me carry stuff out, even one bought my kids each a sucker! She really wanted to help and you did handle it wonderfully!!

I think this world would be a better place if more people were willing to accept help and more were willing to help!!

I think it's so sweet when the elderly want to help out. When Kailey was a few months old we were in the store and an elderly lady was sitting on the bench next to me, while I was tryin to dig out my car keys. Kailey was crying, and she wanted to know if I needed her to hold Kailey. Even though I had just found my keys, I said yes to her because I knew she wanted to hold her. the smile on that woman's face was priceless







:


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## 3_opihi (Jan 10, 2003)

I probably would have been relieved. It's pretty common in my area of the country for older adults to pick up crying toddlers and try to talk to them/soothe them....it's not looked down on at all, and would be considered extremely rude to put someone off who did that.

I remember I took a flight to California from my home (Hawaii) when dd was about 9 months old...of course mid flight, dd started fussing and an older (really old!) Filipina woman insisted on carrying dd back and forth for the whole rest of the flight! Dd was a giganto sumo baby and this woman was so teeny, I was so sure she was going to drop her when we hit turbulence. But she didn't. And - I trusted a well meaning stranger and got some extra help.







I was soooooo relieved, mainly because I had to pee really bad! When I got off the flight and said goodbye, everyone was so surprised as they thought she was dd's grandma.


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## *LoveBugMama* (Aug 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *purposefulmother* 
Threatening to call police when a well-meaning stranger tries to calm an obviously upset child seems to be a big over-reaction. She wasn't trying to correct your parenting or harm your child. At the most, I might have said, "Oh, I'm sorry, we've taught him not to go to strangers."

If I were in that situation I probably would have struck up a conversation with her; asked her is she had children/grandchildren, where she was from, etc. Experienced mamas and grandmas are a terrific ally and ime kids generally like them when they are introduced in a calm setting. I don't know, I think it was kind of sweet that she was trying to help. So many people don't want to get involved when they see an upset child, and here was a lady trying to make the situation happier.

My family is Hispanic and much more likely to touch a stranger's child than some, umm, other families. Part of our family culture is to touch (and sometimes) indulge children, offering them little gums or stickers, patting them on the head and back. It's not meant to alarm or intrude, just a sign of affection. We call it being friendly.


I totally agree with this. I`m not Hispanic, but Norwegian. And here it`s normal that strangers approach children (and adults) with friendly chitchat, with a pat on the head/shoulders or something similar. It isn`t in any way meant to be alarming or intruding. People just want to be friendly.









My son is approached by strangers everyday. And I mean everyday. Tehy want to touch his hair (he has very blonde, long hair), they want to tell him what a wonderful boy he is, that he is a great skateboarder, that he looks so special etc. It`s nice and makes him feel good. And somewhat embarrased sometimes..


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## TheTruth (Apr 8, 2007)

If your child is screaming in public and annoying me I reserve the right to yell "shut the **** up" at him.


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## Kristine233 (Jul 15, 2003)

Another reason why I hate our American Culture. If we had the money we'd be moving.

On the flip side I have a DS who went through a hugging phase. He LOVES older women. We'd go to the post office and he'd see an older woman and walk over and hug her out of the blue. The looks on the faces were priceless, they loved it. He even shocked a few young men that looked like his uncle, lol. We did talk about asking if he could hug them first and he did ask. I told a couple family members and they scoffed at me and said "You can't let him hug people, that is just weird!" My family is VERY hands off. *sigh*


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## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

Kristine233 - I love the story of your DS, that is so sweet.

The woman sounded like she was trying to help. Although strangers don't always help in a way that is actually helpful, I appreciate the gesture.

A few weeks ago DD and I flew to visit the inlaws alone and of course I brought too much stuff. At the car rental agency, a man (Japanese?) with limited english was mopping the floor and DD was running around more then I would have liked. I told her that the floor was 'slippery' but she didn't listen to me (usually she pays close attention to the word slippery) and continued playing. She did slip and fall but wasn't hurt. I reminded her that the floor was slippery and at that point the man came over, took DD by the hand and started leading her away. I grabbed her other hand just as she burst into tears. DD is terrified of strangers touching her so this was a shock to her. -She loves strangers from 2 feet away.







The man explained that he was trying to help and honestly I believed him. He was saying the whole time that he was going to show her the floor was slippery. The thing is, now I had a car rental guy talking in one ear and a 2 year old screaming in terror in the other ear. This did not reduce my stress at all. If DD was a different toddler, I think it would have been fine though.


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## Schnooks (Jul 25, 2006)

Babushka's in Russia will come up to you and tell you to bundle up your child if an ear lobe is sticking out of his hat.. not a big deal.. just their way.


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## MysteryMama (Aug 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *november21* 
You know this is an ugly world - so many cold hearted, uncaring people. It's not often we come across good people. Loving people.

How sad that a person who has a kind heart, a beautiful caring heart "freaks someone out". It's not people like that who freak me out - it's people who are afraid of human kindness- human touch.

Babies/children are the hope of the future, personally when people coo at, touch or smile or hug my chilren I am touched.

Yes indeed if more people were NOT afraid of loving or being loved the world would be a better place.

I agree.


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

Aw, I love Russian grannies. When DH and I first moved in together it was in a Russian neighborhood and some of the older ladies sort of adopted us.







:

I agree with the pps who said her behavior sounds normal and sweet. Screaming at her or calling the police...gotta be frank: it sounds paranoid and weird to me. I can understand being annoyed and giving a distant smile, but calling the cops? I hope that was a joke and you wouldn't seriously think about doing that.

And ok also frankly: it ticks me off. The cops are paid to do a very specific job. They are here to protect citizens from criminals and people who disobey safety laws, like stop lights. Using them as a battering ram to harrass someone who made you mad is inappropriate, antisocial, and wrong. Period. Just like calling CPS on a neighbor because her yard looks dumpy.

As for a toddler tantruming on the sidewalk for 10 minutes, if I had been there I probably would have tried to intervene too. If the mom wasn't actively standing with the kid or holding him or sitting on the ground by him and breathing deeply, I'd assume she was too stressed to handle the situation. I probably would have tried to distract him--I've done that for strangers' kids before when the mom looked like she was about to shoot herself. Guess I'm a weirdo too.


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## green betty (Jun 13, 2004)

Geez, something like this happens to me practically every time I leave the house! I live in rural Nova Scotia and strangers talk to ds or touch him or pick him up ALL the time. I pretty much follow his cues and help him disengage if he's uncomfortable, but in a laid-back and neighborly way. It was disconcerting at first, but I love living in a place where children are actually part of the community. Whenever we go to the park or to the store about a dozen people greet him by name.


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## honeybee (Mar 12, 2004)

My philosophy on the strange granny/grandpa touching thing is that kids should be exposed to normal, friendly interactions and touching, while always respecting their personal boundaries in any situation. So, if my child does not mind being patted on the head, then I just smile. If my child backs away or gives another cue, then I intervene and politely but firmly deter the other person. We do not make him give hugs or kisses to relatives and we stop tickling/playing when he says stop. I want my kids to develop and respect their own instincts, and they'll never do that if I don't let them interact with other people.

I do not tell my children "never talk to strangers." Ds1 loves to chat up other people. I let him. I also taught him to find a mother with children if he gets lost, and never leave the place where we are. I also watch him like a hawk, monitor interactions, and swoop in if anything feels off-kilter.

The Russian granny didn't even touch your child. She stopped when he backed away and then went to YOU. I don't think she was being manipulative at all.. just trying to help.


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

This whole scenario might have been avoided by handling the conflict with your ds differently. There're always alternative ways to broach these conflicts. You would not have had to concede to his demand to carry him, by helping him to walk over to the bench. If ever in a similar predicament, maybe once your things are settled on the bench, you could turn and tell him his choices... choices _you_ can live with too (example):"Ds, your choice is to walk over to the bench yourself, or Mama will come hold your hand and help you. Make a choice..." I count to 3, letting dd (also 2.5) know I'll count to 3 and then come help her. She usually ends up doing it herself.

[Incidentally, I'm a hobby astrologer, and I find that the temperment of the Monkey child, those born in '04, tends toward dexterous, capable, industrious and fiercely independant can-doers that have a mischieveous streak... granted that can describe most toddlers... appeal to his tenacity from a positive place, reminding him of his ability. With 05's, the Rooster is an indominitable will, with a sound and stuck moral compass (it isn't always _everyone else's_ moral compass, at all)... if they don't come to the decision themselves, they'll just put up a row and squack about it until they get their way or become distracted.]

Quote:


Originally Posted by *purposefulmother* 
If I were in that situation I probably would have struck up a conversation with her; asked her is she had children/grandchildren, where she was from, etc. Experienced mamas and grandmas are a terrific ally and ime kids generally like them when they are introduced in a calm setting. I don't know, I think it was kind of sweet that she was trying to help. So many people don't want to get involved when they see an upset child, and here was a lady trying to make the situation happier.
<snip>... We call it being friendly.

I too would have just engaged her in conversation, keeping an eye on my child, and illustrating what a socially healthy interaction looks like... possibly using it as way to to redirect away from the stimulus that caused the outburst, and invite him to join us... (loud enough for dc to hear):"Wow, that's very interesting, Mrs._____!! Dc, did you hear that? She has __ grandchildren!! When you're ready, come and meet our friend..."

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BelgianSheepDog* 
<snip>
As for a toddler tantruming on the sidewalk for 10 minutes, if I had been there I probably would have tried to intervene too. If the mom wasn't actively standing with the kid or holding him or sitting on the ground by him and breathing deeply, I'd assume she was too stressed to handle the situation. I probably would have tried to distract him--I've done that for strangers' kids before when the mom looked like she was about to shoot herself. Guess I'm a weirdo too.

BSD, you're not a weirdo in _this_ case.








I love when folks jump in to offer help or take interest. I too have been that person! If we don't, and no one else does, _Where is the Village?_

It's important to get to know folks, and help our dc's to interact in a healthy manner, even on a passing level; it teaches our children empathy and models "people skills"

Some of the best advice I've ever been given (that is, the stuff that I have actually adheared to) was bestowed upon me by well-meaning, compassionate strangers.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *green betty* 
Geez, something like this happens to me practically every time I leave the house! I live in rural Nova Scotia and strangers talk to ds or touch him or pick him up ALL the time. I pretty much follow his cues and help him disengage if he's uncomfortable, but in a laid-back and neighborly way. It was disconcerting at first, but I love living in a place where children are actually part of the community. Whenever we go to the park or to the store about a dozen people greet him by name.









: Where in N.S.? I have family in the countryside of N.S., and when we went to visit, this is exactly what it was like; my uncle taking me around when I was little and showing me off, making sure folks noticed the likeness... he knew the names of every cashier, bank teller, barber, postman we encountered.

I love the idea that by adopting this air of neighborliness and making it my business to care about other folks in the community(on even that passing level), other folks might feel more comfortable being neighborly, themselves... you know, "Pay it forward..."


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## mommy2abigail (Aug 20, 2005)

If I saw a kid screaming at a bus stop, and the mama sitting on the bench, I would have intervened too.







I wouldn't scare the kiddo, but maybe squat down and offer sympathy or whatever. And I would appreciate if someone did that for my dd as well. Sometimes it's enough of a distraction to get the kid to stop screaming, yk? And ftr, if you would have put your bags down and went to help him, I dont think you are teaching him that screaming gets him his way. You are teaching him that you will be there to help him calm down when he can't do it on his own. If you were freaking out and your dh sat on the bed and kept saying "come here and give me a hug" would you want to? Or would it make you feel so much better if he went to you and met you in your time of need and gave you a hug? Or offered some kind words? It would make you think you could cry and scream to get your way, it would teach you that you were lovable no matter what. Just thought I'd offer my $.02.







:


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## glendora (Jan 24, 2005)

Please don't call the police on friendly old ladies...


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## sonrisaa29 (Feb 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EnviroBecca* 
EnviroKid is two-and-a-half. On our way to a bus stop, we needed to cross a street, and since there were no cars coming I decided to cross even though the Don't Walk sign was lit. I didn't explain this decision, and halfway across EnviroKid noticed the sign and began protesting.







Bad Mama! I admitted my mistake and cooperated with his demand that we do it again and get it right: When the Walk sign came on, we crossed back to where we had been, then back again toward the bus stop.

Okay? No. I guess it's because he was upset about my mistake that he asked to be picked up and flipped out when I wouldn't. We were only 20 feet from the bus stop, and I already was carrying two heavy bags, so I told him I could not pick him up and he needed to walk. He stopped right there and began howling as I walked to the stop and sat down.

Now, first of all, WWYD about this tantrum? It went on for maybe 10 minutes as I sat on the bench, saying, "Please come sit with me." and holding out my arms. He was within my sight the whole time, wasn't hurting himself, and was keeping back from the street and out of the way of pedestrians. (It's a wide sidewalk.) Some of the people in the area were looking at me as if I ought to Do Something. The only other option that came to mind was to leave my bags on the bench, go get EnviroKid, and carry him over to the bench. While that would work around my objection to carrying him and the bags at the same time, it might work against my goal of raising someone who walks on his own and doesn't use screaming as a means of getting what he wants. So I didn't do it.

Meanwhile, an older lady came along, noticed him, looked around to identify who was his parent, and then crouched down about 5 feet from him and held out her arms as if to hug him or pick him up. He backed away. She moved closer but wasn't touching him. He covered his head with his arms, backed into the hedge, and bellowed, "GO AWAY!!!" I was about to get up and lead him away from her when she got up and came over to me. Without speaking to or even making eye contact with me, she leaned over and put her hands on my shoulders, kind of half-hugging, and gave EnviroKid a big smile and said, "See? I am nice person!"








: I had no idea what to do!! She had a heavy Russian accent, and I've seen that old ladies recently arrived from Russia (there are a lot of them around here) seem to expect young children to love and trust them immediately--for example, when EnviroKid and I get on a bus and there are no seats available, often Russian ladies offer to have him sit on their laps! I figured she meant well, but she was freaking us out!

I said, "Oh, it's all right. He's just upset that I wouldn't carry him from there to here." I couldn't tell if she understood me or not. She let go of me but stayed too close, asking "How old?" and "Boy or girl?" Then she went on her way, smiling and waving at both of us.

By then the bus was coming, so I picked up the bags, flagged down the bus, picked up the squalling toddler in an undignified fashion, apologized to the bus driver for the noise, sat down with EnviroKid on my lap, and said, "I hear that you are upset. That is too loud a noise to make inside a bus." He quieted slightly, then noticed some passing scenery and started chatting about that. All was well.









This was on Friday, and since then he's told the story of crossing the street several times, going over how Mama did it wrong, he saw the sign, Mama agreed that we were doing it wrong, and we did it again the right way. He seems to need to work through something about that. But he has not mentioned the woman. Even when I told EnviroDaddy the whole story and we discussed it at some length in front of EnviroKid, he did not seem particularly interested. So I guess it didn't traumatize him!

EnviroDaddy says he would not have been anything resembling polite to this woman. The moment she approached our child without approaching a parent first, he'd have been over there yelling, "Get away from my child or I'll call the police!!!"

I don't know...I think it was inappropriate for her to approach him, to move closer when he backed away, to touch me without talking to me first, to try to mislead my child into thinking I knew her...but is it really necessary to react with terrified hostility? The one thing I feel sure I did wrong is that I didn't pull away or otherwise make it clear that I didn't like her grabbing my shoulders. My kid stood up for his personal boundaries better than I did! But I wasn't really upset (just startled) so was a big reaction necessary?








: What would you do?

I think that perhaps many of the old Russian Ladies proably miss their grandkids too in Russia. I also think its a cultural thing, and that you and your DH should just look it at such


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## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

I am relieved to see that nobody thinks I was being neglectful for failing to "protect" my child from this well-meaning lady who was inadvertently scaring him, and that everybody thinks threatening her would be wrong! Now I can tell EnviroDaddy he's the one who's weird.









I'm normally friendly to the people (encountered on a daily basis) who want to talk with or about my child. He is very shy of them, and I try to honor that (not insist that he talk, not let people touch him when he's flinching) while still setting an example of friendliness. What startled me about this woman was that she was simultaneously so much in our personal space and speaking so little. I knew this probably was because of cultural differences and language barrier, but it nonetheless shook me to see my child COWERING from someone and then have that person GRAB me, you know?

EnviroKid continues to talk about the Don't Walk sign. Not the lady, not wanting to be carried, not crying alone on the sidewalk; at random moments he says urgently, "Mama! Don't walk into the street until the white person is walking! Red hand means don't walk! Wait for the walking person!" I say, "Yes, I know. You're right." but he keeps saying it over and over. I think he's just trying to make sure of the rule and remind me not to confuse him like that again. Except when it first happened, I've made no effort to explain the circumstances under which one can safely break the rule; that only confuses the issue. He's heard so many explanations of how we need to follow the signals and watch out for cars (waiting for the Walk signal is not enough in the land of crazy left turns!!) so we don't get squished, and has been rushed across so many intersections when the red hand starts flashing, it's no wonder he thought we were in mortal danger! It was a bad choice on my part.







:


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EnviroBecca* 
I am relieved to see that nobody thinks I was being neglectful for failing to "protect" my child from this well-meaning lady who was inadvertently scaring him, and that everybody thinks threatening her would be wrong! Now I can tell EnviroDaddy he's the one who's weird.









I think you showed excellent discretion, and handled the situation well. I also think that probably ED would have handled the situation nicely as well (but as we all know, thinking about a theoretical/secondhand situation and then being IN the situation with all cues and gut feelings available is very very different). You seem like someone who has a good head on her shoulders, I doubt you'd be partnered to a total raging lunatic.









I wouldn't feel too bad about the whole crossing the street thing. It's been so long since most of us have felt that black and white very literal thinking, that it's hard to remember the stuff like that. If it's not something like that, it's taking a figure of speech literally (one of my boys became very upset overhearing a friend and I laughing about when we got kicked off the bus as kids--he was mad and sad that someone KICKED me), one of my kids used to become very distressed when we turned right while the stoplight was still red, ect. Sometimes it can be a real trip remembering how literal a lot of little kids are.







No harm done, I hope you don't feel bad. Now you know that you'll have to be very observant of crosswalk rules for awhile, hey it won't hurt anyone! ;>


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EnviroBecca* 
I
EnviroKid continues to talk about the Don't Walk sign. :

LMAO!! He probably saw his little life pass before his eyes. Poor kid. Now he knows Mommies can be dorks too.

"Oh, great! My own mom tried to get us killed"


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tigerchild* 

I wouldn't feel too bad about the whole crossing the street thing. It's been so long since most of us have felt that black and white very literal thinking, that it's hard to remember the stuff like that. If it's not something like that, it's taking a figure of speech literally (one of my boys became very upset overhearing a friend and I laughing about when we got kicked off the bus as kids--he was mad and sad that someone KICKED me), one of my kids used to become very distressed when we turned right while the stoplight was still red, ect. Sometimes it can be a real trip remembering how literal a lot of little kids are.







No harm done, I hope you don't feel bad. Now you know that you'll have to be very observant of crosswalk rules for awhile, hey it won't hurt anyone! ;>









When I was little I heard my mom say my cousin would come over someday. Not understanding "someday" I thought she said "Sunday." Every day for WEEKS I asked if it was Sunday and was Cousin Ashley coming over TODAY?


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## MamaSweetP (Sep 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PrennaMama* 
[Incidentally, I'm a hobby astrologer, and I find that the temperment of the Monkey child, those born in '04, tends toward dexterous, capable, industrious and fiercely independant can-doers that have a mischieveous streak... granted that can describe most toddlers... ]


You just described my '04 toddler to a tee! (but not all toddlers, as my '02 child is, and was even as a toddler, very reserved when trying new physical things and oh so not independent!) We often describe her as a little monkey and laugh that she was born in the year of the monkey LOL

I agree with the PPs who felt that a lovely lady was doing what naturally came to her. I wish more people were as kind-hearted to children!

xoxo
Charlotte


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## Kajira (May 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Finch* 
It sounds like in this case it was a matter of cultural differences, to be honest. Yes, her behavior seriously weirded me out just reading it, BUT...in some cultures behavior like that towards strangers' children is seen as helpful, not intrusive and weird.

I dunno. I'd be willing to bet that in this case, it's simply how she was brought up/what she is used to, not her trying to cross boundaries. I think your reaction was fine, you didn't make a huge scene, which I don't think was necessary. What did EnviroKid do when the lady touched him?


write it off as cultural, where I come from even guys in their 30's would be asking you, "do you want me to bring him?" and older grandmother types would just walk up and tell him "Go to your mother!"









Tell you dh calling the police on nice old ladies is NOT cool








Reactions like that is what keeps me from ever stopping kids from doing stuff that I know is dangerous, heelies in the housewares section for eg, back home a mother would be like Thanks, here I'm likely to have the cops called on me, even tho jr wasn't using his grey matter and would have hurt me and my babe when the shelf of dishes came crashing down.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EnviroBecca* 

EnviroKid continues to talk about the Don't Walk sign. Not the lady, not wanting to be carried, not crying alone on the sidewalk; at random moments he says urgently, "Mama! Don't walk into the street until the white person is walking! Red hand means don't walk! Wait for the walking person!" I say, "Yes, I know. You're right." but he keeps saying it over and over.

You are never ever going to live this down.









at least you know he is internalizing these rules and won't be breaking them as soon as your back is turned


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## EVC (Jan 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Schnooks* 
Babushka's in Russia will come up to you and tell you to bundle up your child if an ear lobe is sticking out of his hat.. not a big deal.. just their way.

Yup. This is TOTALLY a Russian babushka thing. If anything, you got off easy









Often they can be pushy, bossy, blunt, and used to people obeying their admonitions. But they are also wonderfully kind, compassionate, and generous and their pushiness comes from a very sincere desire to help--it's just that sometimes you may not need or want their help. That never stops them though







I have been yelled at and chastised by MANY Russian babushkas--and I'm an adult







: (I'm not dressed warmly enough, I shouldn't be sitting the way/place that I'm sitting, I shouldn't be drinking water with ice in it, I shouldn't have the window open because I'll get pneumonia from the draft despite the fact that it is 90 degrees out, etc.).

The best thing to do is laugh it off, because there is NO arguing with a Russian babushka.


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## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

Tigerchild wrote:

Quote:

I also think that probably ED would have handled the situation nicely as well (but as we all know, thinking about a theoretical/secondhand situation and then being IN the situation with all cues and gut feelings available is very very different). You seem like someone who has a good head on her shoulders, I doubt you'd be partnered to a total raging lunatic.








Thanks! He actually has never called the police about anything and usually is not very confrontational with strangers, but the idea of someone upsetting his loved one gets him all riled up. If he'd really been there, unless he had a gut feeling that the lady was evil, he probably would've just sat there the way I did.


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## bluetoes (May 12, 2007)

I remember when I lived in Dublin and I was getting on the bus a woman handed me her baby so she could get her stoller and things onto the bus. Not normally being a baby person I was surprised to see how much I liked holding the wee thing that just beamed at me while mommy got herself sorted. I thought it was odd to just hand a stranger your kid, but she needed a hand, so why not. I think the mom was Scandanavian.

Anyway, prior to having the wee man I thought I would be the sort that would never want strangers touching him. Now that he's here I am over that. I come from an affectionate background (dad is Mexican) and love how cuddly his Mexican carers at daycare are with the babies. And if he's having a meltdown and I have my hands full and I am appraoching melt down mode I would welcome someone giving me a hand (unless it's someone super creepy or really really dirty).

I guess I will try to teach the wee man that strangers aren't ok when his dad and I aren't around. My mom was so paranoid she had me convinced EVERYONE was a child molester from an early age. I don't want my son to think like that and want to protect his innoncence about the world we live in as long as I can.

Anyway, someday we'll be those baby loving busy body crazy grandma types


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## bellymama (Apr 15, 2007)

sounds like cultural differences. my grandparents were from "the old country" (i.e. azorean islands of portugal) and things are different there. i don't know about the country this woman was from, but in my experience the "it takes a village approach" is more the norm other places. people aren't so isolated like we are here in the US, everyone knows eachother and eachothers children.
she was probably just trying to be nice, trying to get to know people in the area. i can understand your apphrehension (how the hell do you spell that?!







)...but i think its okay to not worry about it.
wouldn't it be nice to live in a place where you could let you children sit on a sweet old ladies lap and it wouldn't be weird?


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## rzberrymom (Feb 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellymama* 
i don't know about the country this woman was from, but in my experience the "it takes a village approach" is more the norm other places.

Yep, this is how it is where I live (the Netherlands). People look out for each other's kids, even if they don't know each other. I don't think anyone I know finds it alarming.


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## mommato5 (Feb 19, 2007)

Ya'll are making me want to move!


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaSweetP* 
You just described my '04 toddler to a tee! (but not all toddlers, as my '02 child is, and was even as a toddler, very reserved when trying new physical things and oh so not independent!) We often describe her as a little monkey and laugh that she was born in the year of the monkey LOL

I agree with the PPs who felt that a lovely lady was doing what naturally came to her. I wish more people were as kind-hearted to children!

xoxo
Charlotte

'02 is the horse... horse children need reassurance, they can be noticeably competetive, they have a retiring quality (gun shy, not down with confrontation or criticism) and they do best with heeps of encouragement. These folks become leaders or good team players later.


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## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

I agree, she sounds harmless and like she had a kind heart and was trying to help.

I honestly thought this was going to be about someone making a rude comment about your son's tantrum. Now I've had THAT happen several times and was ready to kick some serious a** over it.


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

I wouldn't have given in to a demand from a toddler over crossing the street "wrong", first of all. I don't demand things from people, and no one demands things from me. But, I was not there. Perhaps your definition of "demand" is different than mine.

As far as the older woman, I would have just said that we are teaching our children not to go to strangers, but thanks for the concern. I think she probably meant well.


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## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

Quote:

I wouldn't have given in to a demand from a toddler over crossing the street "wrong", first of all. I don't demand things from people, and no one demands things from me. But, I was not there. Perhaps your definition of "demand" is different than mine.
I guess that's not exactly the right word. He said something like, "We have to do again! We have to do it right!" in a very urgent tone. I hoped that doing it right would "erase" having done it wrong so that he felt right again. (Didn't work. But that sort of thing has worked with him in the past.) There was no real reason NOT to do it again; our bus wasn't within sight, so we wouldn't miss it by taking the extra time; I didn't have a strong feeling of not wanting to do it. So it seemed worthwhile to do it and see if that would calm him.


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

I haven't read the replies.

I would not have acted with hostility, such as your dh suggested. I probably would have reacted the same way you did. Yes, it was inappropriate (for our culture), but I live in an area with a large Russian population, and have definitely had older Russian women approach my children. Maybe, depending on the moment, I would have said something like "He's not comfortable hugging someone he doesn't know" or something along those lines.

I save the hostile reactions for people from whom I get a bad vibe or feel threatened when they approach my children.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

I wouldn't have been alarmed by the situation the OP describes, because I would assume it was a cultural thing. However, if a mother my own age and from my own culture tried to intervene with my tantrumming child because I was "just sitting there," I would be rather peeved. My DD needs space when she is freaking out and often just sitting back is the best thing I can do. I wish she would allow more comforting, but she just has to calm down on her own terms sometimes. I've experienced situations where well-meaning mamas feel the need to try to "help" DD (meanwhile shooting me a "Why are you not snuggling her?" kind of look), and it's a little annoying. On the other hand, I once had someone help me get a flailing DD out of the aisle in a busy airport (she carried my bag for me) and I was very grateful. Just...think carefully before you intervene, or ask.


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## Bjen614 (Jun 8, 2004)

When I read this story, and put myself in this situation: Group of people, toddler standing off by himself crying/screaming/what have you, I would think that this child is lost and would go over and talk to him (b/c I would be scared that someone would snatch him or he'd run out into the street). I don't think it's wierd at all, unless I saw the mommy on the bench asking him to come sit with her.









But then if this lady had seen what was going on and still walked over to your dc, then I would just see it as the lady being friendly and her maternal instincts kicking in.


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## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kajira* 
write it off as cultural, where I come from even guys in their 30's would be asking you, "do you want me to bring him?" and older grandmother types would just walk up and tell him "Go to your mother!"









Yes, if I understood the situation I would have probably told him to go to his mother or asked her if she wanted me to bring him (depending on my general outlook).

People here are way too standoffish. I love visiting smaller towns in the South because people are just so FRIENDLY with my kids. I just got back from a short holiday to Ellijay and it was refreshing.

I talk to kids all the time both in good and bad ways. My kids have no category of "stranger" marked bad. I hope they come to understand stranger as a generally positive category with the occasional bad apple.

I also model getting help from strangers. It's a skill they'll need in the future -- and I sometimes need now.


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## kaliki_kila (Aug 16, 2005)

About your little boy wanting to do it over and cross the street the right way, I think children can very easily get locked into doing things one certain way and it can be very upsetting to do something different. Crossing the street is usually broken down into very small steps for a toddler and so it's natural for him to want to do it as he has learned and he might have internalized that crossing the street is a very serioius matter that requires a lot of attention. Sometimes it's good to shake things up a little so they don't get stuck in these certain ways of doing things - like varying a bedtime routine. I guess you could think of other ways to cross the street while still being safe, although nothing comes to mind right now.


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## harmat (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EnviroBecca* 
get on a bus and there are no seats available, often Russian ladies offer to have him sit on their laps!

That could easily happen in Hungary. Not sure dd would take such an offer up, but only cause she's not used to it. When I was at high school, older ladies would even hold my schoolbag so that I can stand easier on the jam packed bus









I wouldn't find what you described disconcerting at all, but I can see how one might if they're not used to it.


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## Leilalu (May 29, 2004)

Well, I have to say I have hadsimilar situations-almost. Not involving tantrums persay, but involving close contact with grandma types. They have usually all been elderly Chinese women.
So I think it is just a cultural thing for Americans to distrust.







:
I actually don't mind it when elderly women try to help out, as long as it is in keeping with not over-stepping boundaries and my kids are comfortable with it. And you can usually tell when someone is not to be trusted. And it usually prompts teaching moments such as" now, you don't have to talk back to someone who you don't know, that is ok. And only talk to them if mama or daddy is right there, ok?" or " you can tell that lady 'don't touch me!' "

I mean, it does bother me when people go touching my kids, but if I truly feel alarmed or like it is rude, I tell them. Mostly ds gets loads of attention because he is so dang cute and older ladies love to get down at eye level with him and coo at him.


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

There are so many cultural differences and generation gaps when it comes to children... at least this one involved something sort of positive (instead of her remarking that you needed to switch him or something horrible).

As an aside, I think it's really sad how standoffish people are with their kids. If I'm out with my son and I make a remark to someone else's kids, while the parents are standing there, I am FREQUENTLY given the evil eye (I have learned to never ever do this). Why are people so unfriendly? Do they think a fat 30 year old woman with a 3 year old son is going to make off with their kids, really???

I don't understand whether they think they are being safe (don't talk to strangers and all that jazz) or if it's just simple unfriendliness toward other people.

As another aside, people are always telling my son not to talk to strangers and it REALLY irks me.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommato5* 
Ya'll are making me want to move!

mommato5, read the threads about how people in these same countries leave their babies in the car while they go shopping and do sleep training and scheduling before you decide to move there. It's a bit scary.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ShadowMom* 
As an aside, I think it's really sad how standoffish people are with their kids. If I'm out with my son and I make a remark to someone else's kids, while the parents are standing there, I am FREQUENTLY given the evil eye (I have learned to never ever do this). Why are people so unfriendly? Do they think a fat 30 year old woman with a 3 year old son is going to make off with their kids, really???

Heh, you know it's kind of funny. I got very similar reactions when I was a fat 30ish mom with 1 kid. Not while I was pregnant, for some weird reason. Now that I've got 3 kids, people don't give me the evil eye anymore, even when I talk to their children without permission. Since they can (correctly) deduce by stereotype that I'm a SAHM by the fact that I'm always in jeans/tees, makeupless, ect, maybe they think that talking to kids is the only conversation I'm capable of.


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## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

Quote:

Sometimes it's good to shake things up a little so they don't get stuck in these certain ways of doing things - like varying a bedtime routine. I guess you could think of other ways to cross the street while still being safe, although nothing comes to mind right now.
We cross many other intersections, so EnviroKid has experience with all of these types:
1. Walk signal that lights up every time.
2. Walk signal only if somebody







presses the button.
3. Walk signal with 4-way stop so that you can cross diagonally, but it only happens if somebody







presses the button.
4. No walk signal, just traffic lights.
5. No lights at all.

I think that adds enough variety to the experience of walking around. It is complicated to learn the rules for crossing each of these types, so the further complication of "It might sometimes be safe to cross when the red hand is up" doesn't seem worthwhile, esp. because jaywalking is in fact illegal. When we're at intersections of type #4 and #5, I do a lot of explaining of how we know when to cross, and I see him catching on to some extent--he'll point at a car approaching on the cross-street and say, "Might be turning?" for example. He's very interested in the whole concept and often asks questions about the traffic rules while riding in the car or bus, as well as while walking.


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## zosiasmama (Dec 22, 2006)

I encounter little old ladies like that here in Poland all the time. I just have to remeind myself that I am the wierdo American and she is just a nice old lady trying to help with "the village". It is so normal here and when I mentioned it to another Polish mother, she thought that I was crazy. It is just accepted that elders have the right to take part in childrens lives...that includes tantrums.
IMO, you did a great job and just keep doing what you are doing! Danni


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## Demeter9 (Nov 14, 2006)

Cultural. Definately.

I don't think you are wrong. Your boy is going to come across people from other cultures, and there is nothing wrong with him learning how to deal with that. I think he did fine. So did you. He knows you are there, but still gets to negotiate the moment himself. I think that is good.

Being Canadian, we have lots of personal space issues. I find dealing with Russians to be very trying on my personal space. The touching, the talking right in my face, the standing nose to nose with my while speaking. So I can see how you might feel about this.

Chatting out YOUR worry about how it was okay for him to tell her not to touch him, and that other cultures have different expectations of how to interact with people would probably be okay. I know that my girls react well to me addressing things like this with them, even days or weeks later.


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

I get the impression that she was just trying to help in her own way.


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