# How can I better handle my violent and disrespectful 3.5yo?



## suprgrl (Sep 27, 2005)

Someone please tell me what is going on?! What happened to my sweet little boy and how can I handle this in a GD way? Is this at all normal? Will my sweet empathetic little boy ever come back? Have we screwed him up and now he is a violent sociopath?

Up until he was about 3.5 (which is how old he is now) he was sweet, empathetic, would listen and seemed to have an understanding of the feelings of others as well as safety.
Now all of a sudden he has become very violent (hitting his brother - and others - with sticks, throwing things at people).
He is also deliberately doing things he knows isn't safe or has been asked not to.
This is driving me nuts to see him deliberately hurt people.... he used to be so caring (ie. giving people hugs when he would see they were hurt, willingly sharing his toys with his brother).
He's also making messes and breaking things like he never has before.. .like this morning he smeared butter all over the wall in the kitchen!
I end up yelling at him and saying things I shouldn't. I'm so scared he's ruined or something... and I am not sure how to handle it constructively. He doesn't seem to take me at all seriously until I raise my voice. I don't want to raise my voice. He used to listen and "get" things before it got to that point.
Someone please help me out with some perspective and ideas.


----------



## crunchyintexas (Oct 31, 2007)

I haven't BTDT, so I can't give you too much in the way of advice.

However, my gut feeling is that he's going through some kind of developmental transition and that, yes, eventually you will get your sweet little boy back.

As for raising your voice, I think if you do it sparingly for the worst offenses, I believe it's acceptable. Sometimes you gotta get a kid's attention.


----------



## annexk8 (Nov 22, 2005)

OMG, did I sleepwalk to the computer and change my username and write this post? Seriously, I used the word "sociopath" to describe my 3.5 yo DS just yesterday. I hope some people have ideas, because I am out.


----------



## jillmamma (Apr 11, 2005)

These are the rules we have to deal with that sort of behavior. If you hit, shove, etc. once, you say sorry and hug the other kid. If it happens again, you can't play with the other child as you are not being nice so you have to do something else. No sticks allowed as they can hurt people. Toys that are thrown have to be put away for awhile because that is not a nice way to play with them. If you make a mess, you help clean it up. If you are just going to make a mess with things, then those things will have to be put away and only gotten out when mom says it is a good time. (playdoh, paints, scissors, etc.) If you can't be trusted to stay safe, you get less privileges. Like, if you are going to run off into the street while out with mom, you have to hold mom's hand rather than walk by yourself. Oh, and I am far from perfect and do my share of yelling when frustrated too. But we try and do the best we can, right?


----------



## cowboyjunki (Apr 3, 2005)

*


----------



## babsbob (Nov 17, 2005)

I notice behavior changes in my kids at their birthdays and half birthdays. I don't know why but it seems like for months after their half birthdays they are kind of cantankerous. It could just be a huge coincidence.

I don't really have any advice - I struggle with staying calm too when my kiddos are aggressive and destructive. I'm going through this with my 2 yo DS. He throws toys, hits, pulls DD's hair and destroys books.

I recommend going out and getting a massage or pedicure, followed by a big decaf mocha latte at the bookstore curled up with a new book or magazine. Or whatever else you like to do. If you are calm and happy it will be easier for everybody!


----------



## terra-pip (Aug 30, 2008)

i'm new to these forums but this post jumped out at me. I have a 6 year old and a 21 month old, both boys. My oldest has been sweetness and light since he was born....when he needs any kind of discipline it almost never is because of aggressiveness. My toddler on the other hand can get pretty out of control at times. Pulling hair, kicking, biting, crashing and banging into people and toys, pulling people and things down. When he's upset but also just in a physical spirit of play that can be a little overwhelming.

There are times when I don't quite know myself what to do to rein it in when it gets too rough for us or his brother or guests and little friends. But one thing that has helped is to spend some time each day (sometimes a couple times) "roughhousing" with him in a gentle way...tickling, swinging, turning upside down, letting him push with all his might until i fall with him on me in a heap etc. I always use a hand gesture meaning "stop" if he gets too out of control and i feel he will hurt himself or me or it's too intense, or i say "mommy doesn't like to play that way" and walk away across the room or into the kitchin for a spell.

There is a lot of truth in the theory about things becoming harder around birthdays and half birthdays...theres some developmental leaps working themselves out.

My hope is that with patience I can eventually show him how to play without going too far. Not to say that i lose my patience at time...he bloodied my gum line once by head butting me incredibly hard. And once something happens like that he laughs and keeps it up...almost as though he doesn't know how to handle the emotions of doing something that hurts another or himself so he keeps it up and spirals.

I hate that there are times (ok a lot of times)







when it seems my kids won't really take me seriously until i raise my voice and get mad....even after numerous repeating of requests and redirections and intervention and distraction etc. I begin to feel like a <gasp> "bad mommy" and then i want to eat chocolate for days!

trying to find "me" time with or without the kids is definitely good advice. I always feel better after having alone time to quiet the chatter in my head!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

It also could be what he is eating... look into Feingold http://www.feingold.org/pg-overview.html and Failsafe www.fedupwithfoodadditives.info

Food additives such as FD&C artificial colors and flavors, preservatives BHA/BHT/TBHQ, benzoates, calcium proprionate, vitamin A palmitate (which is preserved with BHA), can turn a normal kid into wild as a result of salicylate intolerance. Some kids also are so sensitive to react to tomato sauce, citrus, berries, grapes, etc. I have seen this personally in my own child, he was a mess the few times he had artificial color, like a completely different child... hitting, angry, yelling, couldn't sleep.


----------



## BonMaman (Sep 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *babsbob* 
I notice behavior changes in my kids at their birthdays and half birthdays. I don't know why but it seems like for months after their half birthdays they are kind of cantankerous. It could just be a huge coincidence.

I don't really have any advice - I struggle with staying calm too when my kiddos are aggressive and destructive. I'm going through this with my 2 yo DS. He throws toys, hits, pulls DD's hair and destroys books.

I recommend going out and getting a massage or pedicure, followed by a big decaf mocha latte at the bookstore curled up with a new book or magazine. Or whatever else you like to do. If you are calm and happy it will be easier for everybody!

Yes, half birthdays are worth noticing. And the massage/pedicure/latte/bookstore suggestion is









Hang in there. I'm right there with you.


----------



## Serendipity (Nov 12, 2005)

This is most definitely a transition from 3-4 thing. They need to feel SO in control right now and it manifests itself as craziness I think.

Are you engaging him in a lot of things? Giving lots of choices? Providing active time? Not phrasing things as questions if they aren't actually optional?

We are in the midst of this too and I have several friends with the same age kids experiencing the same things. We are just being patient and understanding and trying our best not to add shame and anger at mom and dad to the already confusing feelings they have.


----------



## ledzepplon (Jun 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Serendipity* 
This is most definitely a transition from 3-4 thing. They need to feel SO in control right now and it manifests itself as craziness I think.

Are you engaging him in a lot of things? Giving lots of choices? Providing active time? Not phrasing things as questions if they aren't actually optional?

We are in the midst of this too and I have several friends with the same age kids experiencing the same things. We are just being patient and understanding and trying our best not to add shame and anger at mom and dad to the already confusing feelings they have.

Thank you so much for posting this. My ds is in the same boat and it's driving me to the edges of sanity. It helps so much to know that it's not just him and that it will pass.


----------



## dantesmama (May 14, 2006)

Must be a 3.5 thing. My formerly super-sweet ds has suddenly done a 180 - major attitude, yelling at me, hurting his brother and the cat, etc. I've been wracking my brain trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong; it's a huge relief to hear it's "normal".


----------



## babyonmyback (Sep 11, 2006)

Thank goodness I'm not the only one. I was just getting on-line to post this same thing. Her anger is out of control- and mine is getting there with all the craziness... oh... there is no magic remedy is there.


----------



## rabbitmum (Jan 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *babsbob* 
I recommend going out and getting a massage or pedicure, followed by a big decaf mocha latte at the bookstore curled up with a new book or magazine. Or whatever else you like to do. If you are calm and happy it will be easier for everybody!









:

Mine has smeared butter on walls for the last few days. And today he jumped on my stomach after I said it hurt and told him to stop. Definitely an age thing!


----------



## Vancouver Mommy (Aug 15, 2007)

I'm in the same boat. My dd will be 4 in June and we're really tearing our hair out herer too. In the past two weeks she has ruined a white shirt of mine and coloured on huge chunks of our white carpet with wax crayon. She also has frequent moments of absoute intentional defiance and rudeness like we've never seen before. It isn't all the time, but quite often. She also shreiks and slams doors on occasion too. I'm trying to have compassion for the changes she's going through, but I find it so hard to understand. I'm also having trouble figuring out "natural consequences" for things like door slamming.


----------



## babyonmyback (Sep 11, 2006)

I'm trying to figure out what to do when she throws a giant fit. Yesterday she went totally nuts for some reason I couldn't fix in the middle of the sidewalk on a city street and started trying to run away from me! I've got #2 (asleep, not for long) on my front in the sling and I'm dragging her by the arm cause she's running away. She's screaming, hitting, kicking and foaming at the mouth she's so angry. What the heck do I do! My husband is so disgusted he's really to start punishing her and I don't think there is any use in that at all. I've talked about how dangerous and inappropriate it is with her... but it still happens again! arrrrgghhh....


----------



## Vancouver Mommy (Aug 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *babyonmyback* 
I'm trying to figure out what to do when she throws a giant fit. Yesterday she went totally nuts for some reason I couldn't fix in the middle of the sidewalk on a city street and started trying to run away from me! I've got #2 (asleep, not for long) on my front in the sling and I'm dragging her by the arm cause she's running away. She's screaming, hitting, kicking and foaming at the mouth she's so angry. What the heck do I do! My husband is so disgusted he's really to start punishing her and I don't think there is any use in that at all. I've talked about how dangerous and inappropriate it is with her... but it still happens again! arrrrgghhh....

We try our best to model good behaviour when we're angry by telling her we are feeling really angry and frustrated and need to be alone for a little while to help ourselves feel better. Sometimes she can deal with this and sometimes she just won't even leave us alone, which is really maddening. What we really want out of this is to give her the ability to help herself when she gets out of control so that it doesn't get the better of her. I just try to keep my eye on the big picture, but sometimes I just want to lock her in her bedroom. The only thing stopping me sometimes is that I know she's trash the place!


----------



## rabbitmum (Jan 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *babyonmyback* 
I'm trying to figure out what to do when she throws a giant fit. Yesterday she went totally nuts for some reason I couldn't fix in the middle of the sidewalk on a city street and started trying to run away from me! I've got #2 (asleep, not for long) on my front in the sling and I'm dragging her by the arm cause she's running away. She's screaming, hitting, kicking and foaming at the mouth she's so angry. What the heck do I do! My husband is so disgusted he's really to start punishing her and I don't think there is any use in that at all. I've talked about how dangerous and inappropriate it is with her... but it still happens again! arrrrgghhh....

My daughter used to do that around 3 1/2 to 4 1/2, especially on a sidewalk or another busy place. It was really hard. I didn't ever really find any way of making it stop. I think for some kids the emotions get so strong that they just can't really handle them. They frighten themselves (and everybody else) and feel completely out of it. I think they need to be comforted in as calm a way as possible - angry parents or threats of punishment, on top of what they're already going through, don't help. I can remember it being really difficult, though, to have to hold on to a screaming, kicking, frothing child to stop her running into the street. It's not so easy to be calm, firm and comforting in such situations.


----------



## Vancouver Mommy (Aug 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rabbitmum* 
My daughter used to do that around 3 1/2 to 4 1/2, especially on a sidewalk or another busy place. It was really hard. I didn't ever really find any way of making it stop. I think for some kids the emotions get so strong that they just can't really handle them. They frighten themselves (and everybody else) and feel completely out of it. I think they need to be comforted in as calm a way as possible - angry parents or threats of punishment, on top of what they're already going through, don't help. I can remember it being really difficult, though, to have to hold on to a screaming, kicking, frothing child to stop her running into the street. It's not so easy to be calm, firm and comforting in such situations.









Thanks for that. We forget that sometimes.

Wow! That was my 1000th post.


----------



## riverscout (Dec 22, 2006)

***


----------



## bzmum (Feb 18, 2008)

I am completely in the same boat...new baby, crazy 3.5 yr old constantly on the run, hitting, scratching, screaming, slamming doors, sneaking into things, etc. He has smeared half a tub of Eucerin cream on the wall, dented the wall with a hammer, climbs the counters to get into the cabinets, spilled full containers of juice after getting into the refrig. The other day I completely lost it when I found him with his hand in the vitamin jar. I have no idea how he got the "childproof" cap off. There are locks and latches all over my house to keep him out of the cabinets.









Right now I'm trying my best to let natural consequences take their course and to be supportive and loving through this stage. I so want my sweet boy back! Thanks for posting so I know I'm not alone in this!


----------



## Devaskyla (Oct 5, 2003)

:


----------



## babyonmyback (Sep 11, 2006)

Wow- we had a great day today... not because there weren't any tantrums (we had 3) but I told myself when I woke up this morning I wasn't going to get worked up about it. The first one started with a nasty, "Give that to me!" after I took away my electric toothbrush that she took off the self and submerged in the tub. I actually took it away quite matter of factly, no struggle. Anyway- I said, "I don't like to be spoken too like that". It escalated to "GIVE IT TO ME!!!!!!!" I stayed calm. "Please don't speak to me like that" and then "I'm done telling you that this is an unacceptable way to talk to me Charlotte" and I just stopped talking. Well, that got her throwing. I calmly said, "I am not going to let you hurt me" and I opened the door, took the baby and stood behind the door to shield myself. She threw every last thing in the tub. And it was weird! It wasn't like she was really into it







but she kept it up. When she was done, I said, "Are you finished?" She said yes and I said "OK, well it's time to get cleaned up, here's your soap." After a few minutes I said, "You know that was no way to talk to me or anyone for that matter. And it is dangerous to throw things." That was it. She didn't say anything.

Granted- we weren't on the sidewalk or out somewhere... but it did happen 2x more that night and I actually felt like my calm took the wind right out of her sails...







. It ended fairly easily and that was that. Not like I've got this down, but I felt SO good that just once it went well! On to tomorrow...


----------



## rabbitmum (Jan 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *babyonmyback* 
it did happen 2x more that night and I actually felt like my calm took the wind right out of her sails...







. It ended fairly easily and that was that. Not like I've got this down, but I felt SO good that just once it went well! On to tomorrow...

Good for you!


----------



## PlayaMama (Apr 1, 2007)

we've been through that here!

my advice from what finally worked for us: DO NOT YELL, pull him close and HUG him.

seriously.

try it just once when he hurts someone or something. the first time i did this my little guy just broke down and cried while hugging me really close. he wanted to run away and he was stomping mad and angry and i just held him close and asked him to look at me and i told him that i loved him and wanted him to be near to me and he just relaxed and melted and cried.

i think it's hard for them to have those emotions and sometimes they just need the security of mama even if they are trying to get away from it.


----------



## bendingbirch (Mar 28, 2009)

I think when you are a new mom, you judge your days by if your child melted down or not, and the more experienced you get as a parent you realize it is not whether or not your child melted down, but if you handled it well (ie, I didn't melt down today!)
That transition from 3 to the more expansive four can be a difficult one, and it can also be a time where many mothers have a new baby in tow which can exacerbate things in some ways.

I think one thing to consider is how your child is getting their energy out, are you truly spending enough time outside and getting some of that energy out? Are there quiet times in the day as well? What is the level of media exposure -some kids ramp up with as little as a half hour of videos a day! Someone mentioned the Feingold diet -another great point!

That being said, there will be times of just melting, times when they are just into stuff and times when you just feel angry. And that is okay if you can just stop and freeze, breathe before you do something you would rather not. Can you work on being warm, gentle, saying something once and then following through with gentle hands to help clean things up, put things up higher, move the child away with those gentle hands of yours? Can you distract, sing, tell stories, go look at something else?

I wrote a post about handling temper tantrums and other behavioral challenges here called "Smearing Peas": http://theparentingpassageway.com/20...smearing-peas/

I have been where you all are now, the days are not easy, but congratulate yourselves in thinking about how to handle these things in a mindful, gentle maner because so many parents don't even think about these things at all. Be proud of your ability to be a gentle mother, but still able to set a loving limit and treat your child with dignity and respect. It is so important for the future and you are laying the groundwork now.


----------



## maryeb (Aug 8, 2005)

3.5 has been a whole new world for us as well! My sweet, gentle, compassionate boy actually pushed one of his favorite playmates to the ground last week. He has also been verrry stressed out when dh leaves for work; he screams and cries as dh leaves and even cries in the morning just anticipating dh leaving. He has been hitting dh and me a couple times too. It's sooo frustrating since it just kind of hit us and we were surprised to say the least. Keeping calm does help quite a bit. Sometimes I need to heed the advice of pedi/latte to help keep me sane, thanks for the reminder. If ds1 does by chance eat something with white sugar or artificial coloring in it (so very rare) then he is an absolute mess afterward. He changes completely to a very aggressive person, angry, melting...even if we are running around outside. Reading Your 3 Year Old was helpful in educating me about the changes lots of kids go through around the half year mark...I highly recommend it. Mary


----------



## Ms. B. Sprout (Nov 30, 2006)

Thanks to everyone who posted on this thread. I really needed to read it tonight. My DS got angry and threw a rock at me today, and I did not handle it very well.


----------



## PeachBaby (Apr 3, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
It also could be what he is eating... look into Feingold http://www.feingold.org/pg-overview.html and Failsafe www.fedupwithfoodadditives.info

Food additives such as FD&C artificial colors and flavors, preservatives BHA/BHT/TBHQ, benzoates, calcium proprionate, vitamin A palmitate (which is preserved with BHA), can turn a normal kid into wild as a result of salicylate intolerance. Some kids also are so sensitive to react to tomato sauce, citrus, berries, grapes, etc. I have seen this personally in my own child, he was a mess the few times he had artificial color, like a completely different child... hitting, angry, yelling, couldn't sleep.

JaneS, thank you for the links!


----------



## rockportmama (Jun 24, 2008)

:


----------



## lula'smom (Jun 21, 2006)

i feel like i'm in a similar place with 3.25 yo dd. our biggest issue right now is that she's hitting me a lot. just telling her how i feel isn't helping her to stop doing it. she does it when she doesn't like what i've said (e.g., "it's time to go/brush teeth/whatever..."). how do you actually handle this? a waldorf technique i've read is to say, "your hands must be cold, only cold angry hands hit, let's warm them up" and wrap them in a blanket. then, i let her go when she says her hands can be gentle. but this is actually very physical with a 3 yo trying to hit you so it's feeling not very gentle on my end. time-ins haven't helped too much either but maybe i'm not doing this effectively? i will take her and say we need to go talk about this together and carry her onto the couch and hold her and talk to her about why she's doing it and why it's not okay. today, at the end of my rope i told her that if she hit me again we wouldn't read a book before bed. that felt truly awful and then i felt i had to follow through on it. when she asked to read and i had to say, "i'm sorry, you hit me and that was the choice--that we couldn't read a book if you hit me" i just felt like crying. it's true that she needs more sleep, has poop issues, had a busy weekend, etc. etc. and i try to help with those aspects, but it's so not okay to hit that i feel i must respond to this even though there are mitigating factors for her for sure.

what have you done if talking and showing how sad and upset it makes you doesn't help? thoughts? thanks.

feeling like a bad mommy.


----------



## SweetPotato (Apr 29, 2006)

I felt a lot better after reading "Your Three Year Old- Friend or Enemy." I didn't find any magic bullet solutions but it helped to read from a child development expert that 3.5 is just hard! We're dealing with all of the issues posted above- some days are better than others. I'm trying really hard to work on my own reactions and am trying to use the skills from "Parent Effectiveness Training" so that dd can feel a part of finding solutions to some of our conflicts- it works well when we address things before entering a potential problem situation, but not in the heat of the moment.


----------



## koalove (Apr 18, 2007)

i have no advice but wanted to offer sympathy because im struggling the exact same thing with my 4 year old. its a drag. i sure do miss my sweet little boy.


----------



## lula'smom (Jun 21, 2006)

what's the name of the three year old challenges thread in childhood years? would like to sub....
thanks.


----------



## Nillarilla (Nov 20, 2007)

oh thank you for this!!! I really needed to read this.


----------

