# Moms of boys...



## guestmama9924 (Mar 16, 2002)

So as not to derail the "boys are stupid t-shirt" thread any further. I , as a mom of 2 little girls have some honest questions for my fellow moms of little boys. When I stated in another post that 1 out of 3 women will be a victim of sexual abuse ( read NOT just rape and NOT just US stats)
and further stating that the little boys of today are the perpetrators of these crimes against women in the future. It is statistically legitimate, although one lovely fellow MDC'er wished God to forbid me to have a boy, which is so sad.

Recently at school a little boy climbed after my girl, pegged her down and pulled off her socks while she screamed. She is 8. The boy's father just laughed and said his son must have a foot-thing. Yeah, today a foot thing....

If I *had* a boy, I would be asking the same questions, and wondering how do we raise our boys to be loving around women and not hurt them? To not rape, kidnapp, molest, date rape, etc?
But since I have only 2 little girls , and I am trying very hard to raise them to be strong and wise without hate, I feel that is all I can do for my contribution for now since I don't have a little boy.
So if any mamas can talk to me about this with the realization that when I say " your boys" I am not talking about anyone personally, I am truly speaking conceptually.
And as a mom of a boy, and a woman yourself, what would you say are good resources or strategies for me to use to keep my girls from harm (as much as I can ) and not become man-haters?
(This is said with peace and true concern for the future of the sexual abuse stats. I am sorry for all the mamas of boys who thought I was addressing them personally







)


----------



## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

Well ,first I guess I would say try to keep your sons from being victims themselves, since statistically those who abused have been abused. I am sure those who abused me had also been sexually abused themselves. I think that is pretty common. I would like to know stats on how many boys are sexually abused?
I don't think I am doing anything special to "perp" prove my son, just raisng him with love and respect as I do my daughter. I certainly won't treat him like a potential sexual abuser anymore than I would my daughter.
Would you have felt the same disgust had it been a little girl who held your dd down and took off her socks?
I also will not raise my daughter to fear boys, in general. I will also not treat her like a potential victim, I think that is damaging too.
I want to raise both of children to trust their instincts about people , regardless of gender.


----------



## guestmama9924 (Mar 16, 2002)

Sheacoby I think you are right about abusers being victims themselves. I don't know the stat on boys, but I know that men are more commonly victims of overall violent crimes all over the world.
I think you are reading me wrong, which is ok, but I want to clarify that I don't treat boys like potential rapists and I dont' treat girls like victims. BUT I do work in womens health and see the statistic in my face far to much for me to ignore. Yes I would have been outraged if a girl attacked my child, but it was a boy and really had some horrible foreshadowing type of fear for me.


----------



## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

Okay, I think we pretty much agree. It just makes me very upset to think anyone could think of my precious , sweet son as a potential abuser. Since you don't see little boys this way and I have just misunderstood your post I guess I have no reason to be offended.
I think the father of that boy should have stopped his son from doing that to your dd and I most definitely would have had it been my son or daughter.
Part of my talking to my kids about sex will be about rape, date rape and sexual harrasment etc.... I think talking about these things will help to keep our boys and girls safe. I do have fears of my daughter being abused and I am pretty protective but I am of my son too.
I talk to my kids pretty often about good touch/bad touch. I think it's very important to teach children the best to keep themselves safe. I also hope like hell nothing ever happens to them.


----------



## guestmama9924 (Mar 16, 2002)

Quote:

It just makes me very upset to think anyone could think of my precious , sweet son as a potential abuser








you are a good mama to defend your son and I am just trying to be a good mama too. Sexual abuse gets SO much press, sometimes I am just breathless at the sheer thought....


----------



## Overproducktion (Aug 31, 2003)

Keysmama...I felt hurt by the comment in the other thread. I have three beautiful sons......and the "YOUR boys" just felt like a punch in the stomach--in the other thread.


----------



## Raven (Dec 15, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KeysMama*
When I stated in another post that 1 out of 3 women will be a victim of sexual abuse ( read NOT just rape and NOT just US stats)
and further stating that the little boys of today are the perpetrators of these crimes against women in the future. It is statistically legitimate, although one lovely fellow MDC'er wished God to forbid me to have a boy, which is so sad.

I am a mother of a daughter and of a son. I am also a survivor of sexual abuse.

I beleive that in order for us to teach our sons respect for women we need to teach them to resepct themselves. We need to teach them that human life - no matter what color, gender, culture, ability, social background, political view, religion, etc - is worthy of respect. Just imagine if we ONLY ever did something out of respect. There would be no war. No reason to hate. No violence.... Maria Montessori said (many many yrs ago) "The fate of the future lies in the hands of our children" and I totally agree.

I have a responsiblity to teach my dd to respect herself, her body and her rights not only as a girl/woman, but as a human being too. As a mother I must teach through word and deed that all people are deserving of respect.

When you pointed out that the boys of today are the perps of these crimes (sexual abuse) your words were offensive to me as you directly implied that MY son was one of them...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Keysmama ~ from afore mentioned thread...*
As a mom of 2 little girls though, I wonder how DO I boost their sense of self so that they DON'T become one of the 1 in 3 women who is victim of sexual abuse by a male. The same males that are RIGHT NOW little boys. YOUR little boys.

Before I get flamed.... I want to say that I agree with the POINT you are trying to make... I just dont believe that generalizing is necessary.

There are no magic answers to this question.... it is a dynamic and ever-evolving learning experience.

Peace


----------



## guestmama9924 (Mar 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happymomwith4*
Keysmama...I felt hurt by the comment in the other thread. I have three beautiful sons......and the "YOUR boys" just felt like a punch in the stomach--in the other thread.

Tamera, and Raven, thanks for your replies. I hope you read my OP on this thread to see beyond the words I used and the point I was trying to make-although I obviously needed to find a more eloquent way. That is not my strong suit.
Raven, all good points about respecting of the self. Very true.
Edited to add: I ask this of YOU mamas because I hold Mothering mamas to a higher esteem. What I SEE at school and locally does not make me feel as though the cycle of violence is even close to getting better. So I wanted to know what YOU all are doing that maybe other mainstream mamas are not.


----------



## wonderfulmom (Feb 29, 2004)

You need to make sure all the male role models in your child's life behave respectfully towards women. (Or they're out the door!) Children notice and remember and copy behavior.


----------



## myjulybabes (Jun 24, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wonderfulmom*
You need to make sure all the male role models in your child's life behave respectfully towards women. (Or they're out the door!) Children notice and remember and copy behavior.

Definitely. What kids see as they grow up will influence what they think is "normal" for a long time to come.

I also think that attitudes like the boy's father had in the sock incident don't help any. Both boys and girls need to learn that roughhousing becomes unacceptable when the other person is not a willing participant. It's not funny, or cute, or "boys will be boys" to keep playing that way when the other person wants to stop.


----------



## BoobyJuice (Jun 25, 2003)

I have two sons and no daughters. I think the secret whether you are raising boys or girls is teaching respect. Respect of oneself and respect of otehrs. I think myjulybabes had it right with

Quote:

roughhousing becomes unacceptable when the other person is not a willing participant
My older son is 3. Just like most 3 year olds he gets rambunctious - don't even try to tell me it's only boys. What we always remind him is that he has to listen to the other person. If his friend doesn't want to play trucks anymore then he needs to stop. If the other person isn't playing chase then don't run after them. If the kids at the park aren't pretending to play dinosaurs with you then it is rude to roar at them. We emphasize listening to other people wants, likes and wishes. a lot of it involves the fact that he is very outgoing and has virtually no personal space issues. We try to explain that some kids are shy (which he really doesn't understand) and it makes them uncormfortable for him to talk to them or stand by them until he knows them. (At which point he usually says, "Hi I'm Declan. Now you know me. Want to play?")

My point would be that I see both boys and girls, play rough, yank toys, not stop what they are doing at this age. Pretty much every expert agrees that sexual assault - in all it's forms - is more about power than about sex. I think it is far more important to teach children to listen to one another, respect one another, be kind, empathize, etc than to make it a sex ed issue. Of course, we're still at the boys have a penis level of sex ed so maybe I'll change my mind in a few years.


----------



## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

with all that's been said so far.

I also think that a healthy relationship with mom is *vital*. That's not to say that motherless boys will grow up to be abusers, but I do think that a strong, loving, healthy, mutually respectful bond with a mother (or a mother-like figure) goes a tremendously long way in helping a boy grow into a man who respects women.


----------



## onlyboys (Feb 12, 2004)

Keys Mama,

Thank you so much for your words on this... I, too, was shocked and hurt by the other thread, but this made me feel much more peaceful about it, so thank you.

On topic: I have to tell you that these thoughts also have plagued me. I've thought much about the subject of abusers and the way abusers become abusers, and how to prevent my own sweet boys from being those people. I've also always wanted girls, and I think in some way, it's been really healthy for me to first have my sweet boys. My view of boys/young men has changed considerably since I became a mother of a boy.

I agree with much of the previous posters that it has to do with respect and love and determination to model positive, wonderful love and relationships. I think that my boys learn from my partner how a mother needs to be treated. This hopefully will carry over into their relationship paths--they will seek out spaces where they can treat their lovers as they saw Curtis treat me.

I'm scared for my boys.

It's interesting, and I wonder what message my boys are getting when I teach them that if they are ever lost that they need to approach a woman, preferably one with children to seek help. I've actually told them to NEVER go to a man. I wonder what that teaches them?


----------



## Milkie&Cookie (Mar 2, 2004)

The thought of anyone seeing my sweet beautiful son as a potential rapist or abuser is literally sickening. I just got a pounding headache and nauseous. BUT.... I think I understand where you're trying to go with this. I too was abused as a child and as a teen/young adult and worry about this happening to other children.

When pg, I really wanted a girl because I didn't want to have to deal with "icky boy stuff" - boys who hurt animals/bugs, penises, burping, you get the picture.

When I gave birth to my perfect son (ok in my opinion) all that changed. I have an opportunity to give the world a good man. I hope that he will grow to be a loving caring human being who values all other human beings and animals.

I try very hard to not to encourage aggressive behaviors that are sometimes foisted on boys, while at the same time not trying to force "girly" things on him. For example my dad taught my 3 year old nephew to play "slam" (wild wrestling) and he plays at shooting people!!! That just shocked me. I told my dad point blank that he will not play those games with my son - ever. He's been really good about it too. I don't mind rolling around on the floor tickling etc with boys or girls, but "slam" is too violent. We do not stereotype toys. DS has dolls, baby strollers, a play kitchen etc. He tends to like these more than cars, etc. Poor nephew only has "boy toys" whenever he comes over he makes a beeline to DS's toy toaster and will play with it for hours!







Those are just some of the day to day things that we try to do.

I do however, think that there are physiolgical differences between boys and girls. DS despite his loving caring environment pushes other children (usually boys) at the park. At swim class DS and the few other boys seem to be more likely to run around the locker room, while the little girls tend to stay by their mothers. I think there were a few books out in the last few years about raising healthy boys. Maybe someone who has read them will chime in.


----------



## candiland (Jan 27, 2002)

If we raise our sons in a peaceful and gentle manner... ie, gentle birth, extended nursing, responding to their needs, APing, not circumcising, etc... I would assume it would greatly decrease the chances of them being sick and violent in the future.

I mean, it doesn't take a genius, folks


----------



## tracymom (Mar 11, 2002)

I think it is very difficult to raise boys in our culture.

My DS1 is very, very sensitive and cries easily (he also gets angry easily). I have tried to gently guide him down the path toward better self-control in general, not just not crying, but not yelling and etc.

His first grade classmates are popularly calling him crybaby and it has been a rather difficult few months. I have briefly mentioned it to his teacher to raise her awareness, but obviously I cannot shield him from all cruelty.

We have talked about it and how some people's attitudes towards "how boys are supposed to be" are just wrong and that everybody is different, etc. He is very verbal and tries hard to understand but I know it hurts him deeply. Thing is, he can't seem to help it. Tears and anger are just near the surface for him; he's always, always been that way.

All I can do is stand there and try to support him and make him feel accepted and loved at home for who he is, try to minimize his exposure to the cruelty as much as I can, and pray a lot. Society is so hard on males right now. They are given as many mixed messages as females are.


----------



## BrooklynDoula (Oct 23, 2002)

I am the mother of one boy, and an academic whose research is on gender issues and have been a rape crisis advocate for years (I go to the hostipal and police station with rape survivor, hold their hands while they get rape kits, give statements, etc). I am also very concerned about violence and abuse. I think we have to be very clear about the other side of this equation. Yes, 1 in 3 girls will survive sexual assualt AND SO WILL 1 in 5 BOYS. Clearly violence and assualt are of concern for all parents. But, as the mother of a boy, I know tha 95% of these perpetrators are male, so I am concerned. As another poster said, many of those who are violence have been abused themselves.

It is hard to raise boys in our culture, I agree. And we should rememebr that it may be YOUR GIRLS who encourgae our boys to can like men, to be macho, to be tough, etc. Girls can also be very mean to other children and certianly are as guilty of gender-based harrassment in the schools (part of my research). It is often girls who are quick to point out that boys are not allowed to do (like play with dolls), not just other boys. I think that we ALL need to teach our chilren to be respectful of each other, to be accepting, and to know that there are all sorts of boys and girls (and other forms of gender-differnt people) and that that is a wonderful thing. The more we enforce the kind of thinking that says "I am the mother of a boy" and "I am the mother of a girl", the more we invest ourselves in these very arbitrary and hurtful stereotypes about gender - the same stereotypes tha help set our children up to be pertetrators and victims.

My 2 cents.

M


----------



## weetzie (May 29, 2003)

very interesting megan--thanks for sharing


----------



## CharlieBrown (Jan 20, 2004)

thanks for the insight. i have 2 girls and a 9 month old boy. i know there will be some different parenting but not divided girl vs boy


----------



## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

Hmm, I don't yet see how I would parent a boy differently than a girl. We model and reinforce respect and kindness and sensitivity. We show respect for our children, in the hopes that they in turn show respect for others. I respect and reinforce the boundaries that my son has about his body in hopes that it will protect him from ever being abused, the same as I would a girl.

I replied on the other thread that yes, some of our sons here will be abusers, but so will some of the daughters. Some of the daughters here will abuse their children, abandon their children, have a deadly eating disorder, etc. etc. So do you parent with that specifically in mind? I don't parent with the idea of keeping ds from being an aggressor in mind at all. I think just having the mindset that girls are victims and boys are aggressors is dangerous, as this subtlety (sp?) is picked up on by our children.


----------



## Tanibani (Nov 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *megandavidson*
It is hard to raise boys in our culture, I agree. And we should rememebr that it may be YOUR GIRLS who encourgae our boys to can like men, to be macho, to be tough, etc. Girls can also be very mean to other children and certianly are as guilty of gender-based harrassment in the schools (part of my research). It is often girls who are quick to point out that boys are not allowed to do (like play with dolls), not just other boys. *I think that we ALL need to teach our chilren to be respectful of each other, to be accepting, and to know that there are all sorts of boys and girls (and other forms of gender-differnt people) and that that is a wonderful thing. The more we enforce the kind of thinking that says "I am the mother of a boy" and "I am the mother of a girl", the more we invest ourselves in these very arbitrary and hurtful stereotypes about gender - the same stereotypes tha help set our children up to be pertetrators and victims.*











Yeah, my son likes to play with swords AND wear princess dresses. When he goes to preschool, he sometimes likes to play in the mud with the boys, or the loft, playing house with the girls. The girls usually try to kick him out (ages 3-5) can be as cliquey and mean and the girls usually point and laugh (and encourage others to do the same - they are only 4!!!) if he is wearing a girls costume.























Meagan - I couldn't agree with you more. It's everyone's job to teach their children (boy OR girl) to be respectful of each other. It doesn't just fall on the mothers of boys laps.

Keysmama - that father sounds like an idiot! And that's the problem - the parents. My DH or I would not have allowed that sort of behavior or laughed it off.









I have not read the read you are referring to (and don't plan to.) I'm sorry that you find yourself in the position of needing to research this, but DH & I were talking about the same exact thing tonight... that we also have to talk to our little boy (and prepare him somehow) against predators.









When DH was a child, a music teacher tried to touch him. He locked himself in the bathroom and was unharmed. This problem not only affects girls, but boys too.

I can understand why you feel your daughters are more vulnerable.







But *all* children are.

My mom was a widow raising two daughters... and was so paranoid about this... she enrolled us in Karate classes at ages 10 & 12. I was 12. I * hated * every minute of it.

I'm sure there are books on this topic... I think the most important thing is to teach girls (or boys) that *my body belongs to me....* give them the tools/words/inner strength to stand up to ANYBODY (run, call for help, tell someone) that makes them feel uncomfortable. Isn't there a book called PROTECTING THE GIFT by Gavin Becker?

A lot of kids are scared to tell adults anything... we have to teach kids that secrets that make you feel bad, aren't good secrets to keep, etc..


----------



## cat_astrophe (Sep 22, 2003)

It is really late, and I am about to go to bed, so I haven't read all the posts here, so forgive me if I repeat anything.

I am a mother of 2 boys. I raise them the same way I would raise girls if I had them (except for teaching them how to stand and pee). I want them to have respect for ALL people, regardless of gender. I want them to understand personal boundaries and compassion and feel empathy towards everyone.

At one time, boys were taught that they shouldn't hit girls or people with glasses or people that were handicapped.....and so on. I think that line of teaching is total crap. They should be taught not to harm ANYONE unless that person poses a direct and unavoidable physical threat. I think singling out girls and other groups perpetuates a feeling that these people are signifigantly different, and that can lead to detachment, which does not foster compassion. People are people, end of story.

When this teaching was the norm, it was usually also taught that a boy who wouldn't fight or play rough was a wimp. This is NOT an idea I want instilled in my boys. I want them to respect other boys boundaries and expect their own to be respected.

I think the OP failed to recognize one other critical point, men are NOT the only ones abusing these girls. Women can be abusers, too. ALL CHILDREN should be raised to respect others regardless of gender or any other factor.

BTW, my 3.5 yo DS wants to be a mommy and nurse his babies, and he feels sad for Daddy that he can't do that.







As far as he is concerned, the only difference between men and women he sees is that "Mommies have boobies and Daddies have pee-pees" (he explained this to me when he was barely 2.)


----------



## MamaJosie (Apr 26, 2003)

and I have 2 girls and a boy. I don't raise them differently but teach them all to respect other peoples boundaries. The most important concept I think to teach kids is NO MEANS NO! I was glad I had my son last because one of my most hated behaviors is older sibs who haze their younger sibs, especially a boy hazing a girl. It is just is that same kind of foreshadowing thing about abuse. And since my son is the youngest I felt better that he at least wouldnt be doing a whole lot of bullying early on or just rough play against a much younger smaller dd. My dh's family (8 kids) had quite a bit of that and some of the girls were pretty tramautized by it.

Basically, it helped me to view it as a "personal space" "control of my own body" and RESPECT FOR SELF AND OTHERS (our family mantra) issue instead of a sexual one. I dont want to read too much into things like the OP's sock incident. It may have raised reg flags for a sexual scenario later on in your mind but basically if it had been another girl grabbing the socks, would it have seemed sexual to you? Doubtful. I would take it for what it is, more of an issue of control overs one's own body and he definitely crossed that line and did not respect your dds personal space/personal boundaries. And it is important to make him and her (and his parents too!) understand that. I firmly preach "NO MEANS NO" to my own and other people's children even if something started as play and then made someone uncomfy. I even had to get that across to dh with rough wrestling/tickle play with the kids when they would start to seem overwhelmed and he wasnt getting it. So if you encourage them to say NO when they want to and also to RESPECT NO when it is said to them it can go along way to making them be aware of their and others' personal space and comfort and ownership of their own body.


----------



## Pigpen (Dec 12, 2002)

It's late here, I wish I could read all the replies...I am the mother of two boys and a girl. My husband and I were just having this conversation today after seeing a billboard just blocks from our house that has a picture of a bikini clad woman straddling a motorcycle. The billboard reads "Win her", it's a contest to win (I'm assuming) the motorcycle, but made to seem as if your going to win the woman. This is gross on so many levels and I feel enraged every time I see the stupid billboard. But, I realize that this is the world we live in and my children will see stuff like this on a regular basis. So, we will talk to them about it, ask questions like "what do you think of that picture?", "what do you think the advertiser is trying to say here?". I think merely pointing out to them that this is objectifying the woman and what that means, is a big step in the right direction. When I see women allowing themselves to be objectified, it makes me sad for them. I DON'T want my daughter to need that kind of validation. I DON'T want my sons viewing women as objects. Talking about it will be our strategy.


----------



## guestmama9924 (Mar 16, 2002)

Ladies thank you all so much for your heartfelt replies. I see a common thread in all of you that you don't raise your boys with the old attitude of "boys will be boys". I love it! My girls love having their boy cousins over because like another poster said , they go straight for the stroller and the play kitchen and the dress up box. And I am certainly raising my girls to find nothing wrong with boys playing with 'girl' toys, and vice versa. My girls have a hotrod collection, lego and other typically marketed 'boy toys'.
I think breaking gender barriers is very important, as well as the modeling, positive parenting and nurturing.


----------



## tracymom (Mar 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *megandavidson*
Girls can also be very mean to other children and certianly are as guilty of gender-based harrassment in the schools (part of my research). It is often girls who are quick to point out that boys are not allowed to do (like play with dolls), not just other boys. I think that we ALL need to teach our chilren to be respectful of each other, to be accepting, and to know that there are all sorts of boys and girls (and other forms of gender-differnt people) and that that is a wonderful thing.










When I have asked DS1 for names of children calling him crybaby it's almost always the girls. At field day one of the girls in line behind him started on him, I could tell because he hunched his shoulders and started yelling, "I am NOT a crybaby!" I stood and looked at her and she sort of looked over her shoulder at me. I raised an eyebrow and said, to her, "Can we be kind to each other, please?"







:
I have to wonder what kind of home situation this child is in.


----------



## farmer mama (Mar 9, 2004)

I agree with all you great moms. I think we need to develop a new concept of "manhood" for our sons to aspire to. To see that their dads can be strong and build things, but also cook oatmeal and diaper babies (using dh as an example). But while we encourage the nuturing aspects of our sons we need to acknowledge and respect their "boyishness" as well. My ds loves sticks and tools and is the typical boy while at the same time loving to dress up or hold a doll (thanks to dd). I raise my dd and ds the same, while respecting the things that make them unique as a person as well as a gender. Ds is very physical (dd too) but they both know that it is never okay to use force on someone unless you are defnding yourself or someone else from physical attack. I also make sure they have the tools to defend themselves. I also feel the need to provide meaningful rights of passage (wilderness experience, travel, etc) for both my kids for when they approach adulthood, like how Joseph Campbell talk about a particularly grueling right of passage into adulthood for males in a traditional society, and how after you did that "you knew you were a man". I think men in our culture are for the most part at a loss about what it means to be a man, what their role is, and I am not talking about 50's ideals but a more holistic approach. And of course, my children need to be protected from abuse in any form (from men, women or other children) and from the images and stereotypes about the sexes perpetuated by our society. I don't know if that made any sense, kind of a ramble, but it is the best I can articulate on little sleep.


----------



## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *megandavidson*
Yes, 1 in 3 girls will survive sexual assualt AND SO WILL 1 in 5 BOYS. Clearly violence and assualt are of concern for all parents. But, as the mother of a boy, I know tha 95% of these perpetrators are male, so I am concerned. As another poster said, many of those who are violence have been abused themselves.

Awesome post, Megan, and everyone else's too! I'm really getting a lot out of this thread.

I wanted to point out, though, that just because 1 in 3 women (worldwide) will be sexually assaulted as well as 1 in 5 men, that doesn't mean that 1 in 3 or 1 in 5 boys will grow up to be sexual assailants. Many, if not most assailants are repeat offenders. So your typical preschool is not filled with cute little boys just waiting to grow up to be rapists and molestors, an implication that perhaps it would have been possible to take away from some posts on certain threads. I think this is perhaps why it's easy for mothers of boys (like myself) to get our hackles up.

Which is not to deny that we live in a culture that to a great extent fosters the conditions that make sexual abuse and violence so common. But there is not a 1:1 ratio of victims:assailants out there.


----------



## guestmama9924 (Mar 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tracymom*








When I have asked DS1 for names of children calling him crybaby it's almost always the girls

certainly any child who pokes fun is not getting the best examples at home, I would agree. I sense from a couple of posts though that the "well, girls are mean" might be a whole other topic! My concern , and the OP was to protect women against violence and how to raise good boys to break that cycle. Certainly all children need to be kind, and it can certainly start there. And I am well aware of commentary ( elsewhere) to suggest that men are driven to abuse on women because the women drove them to it. I'm not into blaming the victim. It seems like displacing responsibility.
I also think if you ask any child who torments them at school, it is likely a child of the opposite sex. Certainly the case with who makes my 2 girls cry at school.
Quirky, I agree about it not being a 1:1 ratio of victims and assailants. I hope I never suggested that, I know better than that after 8 years in law enforcement. Usually 1 rap sheep covers dozens of victims ( of any crime).

Quote:

I think we need to develop a new concept of "manhood" for our sons to aspire to. To see that their dads can be strong and build things, but also cook oatmeal and diaper babies
I love that!








...hey, I just hit 1200


----------



## nikirj (Oct 1, 2002)

I personally am far, far more worried about my son BEING abused than about my son being a potential abuser. After all, the second usually comes in some roundabout way from the first, so if we can prevent the first, we've done most of our job already. And I'm not seeing how very many boys who grow up learning to interact positively within their families are going to become abusers. This is basically our approach to the issue for both our son and our daughter.


----------



## guestmama9924 (Mar 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nikirj*
I personally am far, far more worried about my son BEING abused than about my son being a potential abuser.

oh you are right. So often it is little boys ( like all the church abuse scandals) that are on the victim end of that. With my kids being little, I guess I worry a little less because I am very protective, don't use sitters, don' t let them wander etc. I feel like I have a good proactive approach to keep them safe _now_ . I worry about going off to college or moving out, becoming a grown woman on her own. I know the media plays far too much a role in my fear, but also all the work I have been a part of since age 18. I guess when it has been a part of your life ( as the victim or as someone who works with victims) it is just too much at the top of the pile of worries


----------



## pie (Apr 7, 2006)

modeling kind and good behaviour is the best remedy for any kind of violence.


----------



## Overproducktion (Aug 31, 2003)

Quote:

modeling kind and good behaviour is the best remedy for any kind of violence.










So true, for raising all children..boy or girl. Right on Pie.

I'm doing my best to raise my little boys. Actually I think I am a pro at this boy thing--but now that I have a daughter, I am totally lost. :LOL


----------



## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

First, I agree that we all need to raise our children to respect others -- regardless of gender. And that children need to learn to respect themselves as well.

However, I think we need to be very careful with the statistics here. While it MIGHT be accurate to say that 1 in 3 women are abused worldwide (and since no one has offered any real sitation to this stat, I'm not willing to take it on faith), that probably isn't an accurate way to look at the world if you live in the United States. I realize that not everyone on these boards do, but I think the majority are U.S. If we carry these sorts of stats in our heads, we react very differently to the world. Its probably better to learn the REAL statistics for your area and work from there. But, in doing so, be carefull because it is easy for people to twist the numbers to support their point of view, so you have to be careful about accepting statistics at face value. I'm sure we've all heard about "lies, damm lies, and statistics". So, before we get all worked up about these sorts of numbers, let's make sure they are accurate and reflect our day-to-day reality. Which is not to say that we shouldn't work to make the world a safer place for everyone and all children, but don't over-react with respect to the risk to your child.


----------



## guestmama9924 (Mar 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evan&Anna's_Mom*
While it MIGHT be accurate to say that 1 in 3 women are abused worldwide (and since no one has offered any real sitation to this stat, I'm not willing to take it on faith), that probably isn't an accurate way to look at the world if you live in the United States

ah lets don't get too caught up in Americanism. We are raising global citizens.
Here are some references, I was using WHO/Unicef stats, fresh off my computer from my class this semester, it is lots of reading for sure!
http://www.unt.edu/sga/legislation/r...ions2003-4.htm
http://www.who.int/gender/documents/en/


----------



## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Moving this to Parenting Issues...


----------



## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

Quote:

It just makes me very upset to think anyone could think of my precious , sweet son as a potential abuser.
I am late also, but this makes me so upset!

I have two boys and one daughter. My daughter while in elementary school, had her dress pulled up, exposing her underwear, she was understandably angry. she came home and announced that she was "sexually harassed", slamming down her backpack and lunch box. she continued w=to wear dresses, but with shorts underneath. I felt bad, but also powerless. My sons are being raised in the same way my daughter is/was....sensitive and respectful of other peoples personal space and feelings. I think whatever i am doing is working. my almost 14 yr old would never invade someones personal space, be it a boy or girl, has a deep respect for girls. He understands what "no" means as we have talked to him about it. I just love him so very much, and we are very close. I think that this helps. Just like mothers of girls protect them fiercely, i can assure you i am as fierce about my boys protection as my daughters.

Having a good father helps tremendously. If a husband loves and respects his wife, truly valuing her, then their sons will follow this example. and their daughters will settle for nothing less (we hope!).


----------



## mountain (Dec 12, 2001)

As a student of feminism, I have to put in my .02 We recognize & label & color code our children from before they are born...look at all the ultrasounds just so you can find out if it's a boy or girl. IMO, we need to stop,as global citizens, segregating & categorizing---it only hurts us.
I liked the comment r/e not tolerating anything but positive male role models for our boys---it's only natural for any child to imitate their environment & we need to surround ourselves with respect and love. Sure, there are differences between male & female. But do we have to make them weakness/aggressive issues or can we focus on the real differences that make us unique & suited to survival & enlightenment?
P.S. I love a man in a skirt


----------



## BrooklynDoula (Oct 23, 2002)

OT: I love a man in a skirt too!


----------



## TranscendentalMom (Jun 28, 2002)

ITA with whoever said that the best way to make sure that boys respect women is that all the male role models in their life respect women. This is SO huge. It is no coincidence that the boy who pulled your dds socks off had a father who thought this was funny. My dh would be horrified and would NEVER make a joke about it.

One thing my dh told me that really affected him when he was young....he called his mother a bitch one time and his dad gently but strongly backed him up against the wall and said "that is _my_ wife, and _no one_ talks to her like that..." He said he got the point loud and clear that it was unacceptable to treat women that way. I see way too many fathers who allow their kids to curse and disrespect their mothers....they blow it off and act like it is no big deal. Dads have such power in that dept and imo really need to step in and show their chivalry & devotion to their wife. The same goes for wives defending their husbands. UNITED FRONT! This is what we are missing in todays families. Even if the parents are divorced, they can still be united for the kids instead of using the kids to disrespect each other.


----------



## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

Have only skimmed but two things popped into my heads:

Do you think the mothers of adult abusers are any less sickened by the thought that it was their boy that did it? Do you think when their boys were little wee ones that they would not have reacted as strongly as you all have? I sense almost a tiny shift towards the "won't happen to me" side, which makes me nervous. I am unaware of this other thread being mentioned, but I think what the OP said was the honest truth and while I totally understand why boy mamas got their mama bear vibes going....let's try to see beyond the emotions for a second. NO mother wants or believes that their child is going to grow up to be a predator. If we can't talk about it as openly as the OP did, we won't get anywhere.

Second, I think that boys who abuse this way are just dysfunctional, period. And boys, being much more physical and sexually aggressive than girls, act out this dysfunctionality via sexual predation. Subject a little girl to the same kind of abuse, neglect, dysfunctional parenting and she likely won't lash out as an adult sexual predator, but in some other equally destructive (though statistically, less violent) manner. Perhaps she'll starve herself to death.

My point is, I think it's not so much a question of "what makes a sexual predator" as to "what makes a disturbed child?". Thus, it's not a question so much of treating boys differently, rather just honouring them, keeping them intact in spirit, secure, attached, etc...basically what all of us AP parents strive so hard to do.

Hope that makes sense.


----------



## Aura_Kitten (Aug 13, 2002)

Quote:

how do we raise our boys to be loving around women and not hurt them?
i'm sure that anything i'll say has already been posted, as i have yet to read the thread..... but let me just put this in.

i think the key to raising *anyone* to be loving, compassionate, and not want to hurt people is to raise them in a securely attached, loving, compassionate home environment. teach them to respect others and treat others with dignity and -- dare i use the word -- fellowship. teach them to respect life. teach them empathy, and how to relate to others.

may i (again?) post the article i love about this topic ~ http://www.paganparenting.net/inform...es/swords.html


----------



## guestmama9924 (Mar 16, 2002)

Quote:

let's try to see beyond the emotions for a second. NO mother wants or believes that their child is going to grow up to be a predator. If we can't talk about it as openly as the OP did, we won't get anywhere
Piglet, thank you so much for putting into words what I have been baffled with for days now. I truly hope that the AP moms on this board ARE least likely to raise the typical/agressive male . I hope AP is a great solution! But the whole " well girls are mean too" " lets not catagorize the sexes" is just well, beyond my grasp. Girls ARE disproportionately raped and abused by males worldwide as a tool of dominance, humiliation, war and cultural acceptance....including the good ol USA. All crimes against all peoples are horrible. But I am trying to work out the abuses in the male/female order and most of the posters have really great points.klothos, great article, thanks for sharing, I will pass it along to some mamas of boys I know..


----------



## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Quote:

I think men in our culture are for the most part at a loss about what it means to be a man, what their role is, and I am not talking about 50's ideals but a more holistic approach.
Wonderful point. I want to ask dh about this when he gets home tonight! What does it mean to him to be a Man?

Quote:

Second, I think that boys who abuse this way are just dysfunctional, period. And boys, being much more physical and sexually aggressive than girls, act out this dysfunctionality via sexual predation. Subject a little girl to the same kind of abuse, neglect, dysfunctional parenting and she likely won't lash out as an adult sexual predator, but in some other equally destructive (though statistically, less violent) manner. Perhaps she'll starve herself to death.
That makes sense.

I have a son and a daughter. I'm trying to teach them both to have self respect and to treat others with dignity and respect. And in this age, I teach them both how to be safe. That's all I can do, I believe.


----------



## ChristieB (Jun 17, 2003)

Were I not a rape survivor, I probably wouldn't think about this with my ds. But since I am, I have had fleeting thoughts about it. I've read some, but not all, of the posts here. What I've read makes a lot of sense. I think that if I do have a dd also, that there are very few differences in how I would approach this with her. AP parenting, teaching them to respect others, and protecting our children is probably the best we can do.

I am also teaching ds to respect others and their space. I'm trying to teach him that if he wants to give a friend a hug, he needs to ask first (and wait for the answer). Also, if someone has a toy he wants, he's not to take a toy from someone, he's to ask if he can play with it, or trade. (If I have a dd, I will teach her the same things). And, although I realize that rape is more about power and control than about sex, dh and I will teach ds at an appropriate age that if he is going to have sex, he needs to respect the other person and if they say "no", that means "no".

If I have a dd, I will teach her that she doesn't alway need to be "nice". If someone makes her feel uncomfortable, she doesn't need to pretend they don't. I think that too many of us are taught the opposite, and that as children we were/are forced to ignore our instincts so as not to offend anyone. I know I was. And girls are taught this more than boys. (As I'm typing this, I'm realizing that I'll teach ds to listen to his instincts, too, same as if he were a girl). I may even encourage her to take a self-defense class, too, but I don't know. Shoot, if we were anywhere near the people who taught the self-defense class I took years ago, I'd have ds take their class for kids (when he's a bit older).

I do think that it's important not to teach fear, though. If we do, then we're teaching them the same thing the potential preditor/abuser would teach them! Childhood is a time when no one should have to be afraid. We have enough time for that in adulthood. And a few lucky people aren't even afraid then. I want my ds (and any other child we might have) to feel secure and empowered, and to allow others to feel the same. Time will tell if dh and I are successful at that.

Hope I've made at least a little sense here.

Christie


----------



## Mothra (Jun 4, 2002)

I have two boys, 6 and 2, and a baby girl. There are going to be differences in how I raise them. My 6yo is very physical, in both good ways and bad. He is very affectionate, which is good. But he is also prone to throwing things and hitting when he gets angry or upset. The fact that he doesn't get in MORE fights is a testament to his amazing willpower and our guidance. I KNOW that his first instinct is to act out physically when he gets upset.

He has always played with girls more than boys, and part of that is simple geography. Our neighbors have always been girls, and he plays with them at school, too. I have said to him, while talking about hitting and such, that it is NEVER okay to hit a girl. NEVER. And I made it specific to girls, too. That might be un-feminist of me, but there is an imbalance of power between boys and girls in this society, even on the playground. That difference will become more pronounced as he grows older, but hopefully will be less pronounced than it was for my generation. I want him to understand, now, at age 6, that it is NEVER okay for a boy to hit a girl. NEVER. And yes, it is less okay for a boy to hit a girl than another boy. We don't ignore the issue of him engaging in physical altercations with other boys. We tell him over and over that hitting is rarely the answer, and that he should only do so ino rder to defend himself, and only if he can't get away to tell an adult. But we emphasize that he should never hit a girl. As he gets older, we'll talk more about sexism and his role in fixing it. Feminism isn't just for daughters.

I think men learn respect for women by seeing women that respect themselves and are respected by the men in their lives. I don't expose my son to sexist, racist, generally crappy men. Someone told a story of calling their mother a nasty name and their father talking to him about it. My dad did the same thing with my brother once, and I doubt he's forgotten it.

Like it has already been said several times, I'll do what I can to make sure that my sons are not abused in any way, themselves. I think the statistics about male victims of sexual abuse are seriously underreported. I think it is rare for a person who has never been abused in any way to become an abuser. Rape is about power, not sex.

Also, when the time comes, my husband and I will talk to them about how NO means NO means NO. Never have sex with a girl who is drunk, no matter how many times she says she wants to and no matter how many times you've had sex with her before. Never assume that a girl wants to have sex, get her express consent. (Yes, you can ask. My husband asked me the first few times we had sex. No mixed signals.) Obviously the conversations I have with my daughter will be a bit different. There isn't much chance of her forcing herself on a man. I'm not sure how I'll deal with that. I still have a lot of reading to do.

Sorry if this is disconnected. Getting close to time to go get my kid from school.


----------



## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Mothra, I'm sort of kidding here, just to tease you. Since you make such a point of saying you will teach your son to NEVER hit a girl, NEVER. Though it's rare, sometimes grade school boys get picked on by bigger girls. What if a girl hits him. How should he respond?

You make a good point about the imbalance of power between males and females, though.


----------



## tracymom (Mar 11, 2002)

Thoughts on boys and hitting.

We have four "rules" which I go over and over with my oldest, whose emotions run close to the surface and who has lashed out a few times. You do each step in succession after each action from the other person. No skipping steps!

If somebody hits you or picks on you:
1. Tell them to stop, that you don't like it.
if that doesn't work,
2. Walk away.
then,
3. Tell an adult (teacher, parent, caregiver)
if no action is taken and it happens again
4. Hit back!

We added step 4 because I have seen a couple of playground incidents and he's been around a couple of aggressive kids whose parents NEVER disciplined them in any way, and at that point I'd have been happy if they smacked their kid, just to keep them off mine!







So, I figure, if he's not being protected by people who are supposed to protect him, he ought to protect himself.

We've not made them gender specific, though, more size-specific. Like it's NEVER okay to hit babies because they can't talk and don't know any better!


----------



## Mothra (Jun 4, 2002)

I knew someone would say that. It has not happened that he was never able to get away from a girl who hit him. We stress that ANYTIME someone else hits him, he is to walk away, and get physical only if he has to get another child off of him. It has not happened that he's resorted to this with a girl, but we have told him that he can put his hands on a girl if she attacks him and he is unable to just walk away.

My son is physically big for his age, even though he is young for his grade, he is one of the biggest kids in his class. He's even taller than most of the girls. A girl would really have to just have it out for him to attack him. He doesn't have problems with many kids. We talk about what happens at school daily, so when there is a problem we try to catch it and deal with it before it becomes physical. He has learned to just walk away when another child hits him. Usually. We've only had one problem in the three and a half months we've lived here, and it was with a little boy and he started it. It is easier for him to walk away than restrain himself from instigating, I think.

I don't want him to totally not defend himself in the rare event that a girl does just totally attack him, but this just isn't very likely to happen. Girls usually pick on other girls, which is another thread. I think it is more important that he get the message that he just is not to hit girls.


----------

