# Kicking the seat and a car seat footrest



## Shanana (May 11, 2005)

DD1 just turned 3 and we turned her car seat forward-facing a week or so ago, as she had reached the weight limit (33 lbs on the Britax Decathlon). I drive a sedan and am tall, so my seat is pushed quite a ways back, and she can easily kick my seat. She can even firmly plant both feet on it and shove, hard. Which she does. Often. And it is driving me nuts







:.

So I'm trying to figure out what to do. I have to have dd1 behind me, because dd2 will soon move into her Marathon which won't fit rear-facing behind my seat (I have to pull my seat so far forward it's uncomfortable). So moving dd1 to a different place in the car is not an option. The rear seat adjusts, but it is pushed back as far as it will go. I ask her repeatedly not to do it, but she's 3, so you can imagine how well that goes over







.

The other day I saw a car seat foot rest in that annoying Leaps and Bounds catalog that seems to show up every few weeks no matter how many times I call and cancel it. It got me thinking that maybe if her feet weren't dangling, she would stop kicking me, so I have a few questions:

* Has anyone used a car seat foot rest successfully to stop the kicking?
* If so, any recommendations on which one to get? This is the one from the catalog.
* I'd also love to hear other suggestions for getting her to stop kicking me.

TIA!


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## amcal (Jan 13, 2003)

Ummm, I simply tell my children to stop kicking. I am the mother and if I tell them they need to stop, they need to stop. It may take a while but, I would not tolerate my child kicking my seat nor would I spend money, time or energy on trying to figure out contraptions to get them to stop.

I would tell them to stop and tell them the consequences if they don't. 3 years old is certainly old enough to understand the rules that we don't kick the seat and if we do, what the consequences are.


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## mamalemon (Mar 25, 2008)

I don't know about the foot rest, but DS does occasionally kick my seat. I just tell him it hurts my back and he stops... until he forgets again in a few days. Is your dd doing it even after you tell her not to? If that is the case, I would think that it is more of behavior issue and should be addressed as such.


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## mamamelia (Apr 14, 2005)

fair enough, but how do you discipline when your in the front seat driving and your kid is in the back? in no way am i meaning to be snarky, it's a genuine question. my almost 4 year old also kicks the seat from time to time but she also needs to constantly move around too, so i try not to be hard on her.

about the footrest, it doesn't look too bad... and it may actually give your dd something else to kick.


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## Shanana (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amcal* 
Ummm, I simply tell my children to stop kicking. I am the mother and if I tell them they need to stop, they need to stop. It may take a while but, I would not tolerate my child kicking my seat nor would I spend money, time or energy on trying to figure out contraptions to get them to stop.

I would tell them to stop and tell them the consequences if they don't. 3 years old is certainly old enough to understand the rules that we don't kick the seat and if we do, what the consequences are.

I agree that this is at least in part a behavior issue, but to be honest, I don't know what the consequences should be. I don't hit, threaten or coerce. I don't take privileges away (not that she really even has any at 3, and we already don't watch TV







). I explain to her that it's hurting me and ask her to stop. And she doesn't. Actually, this behavior has become an overarching theme in the last few months, and I am somewhat at a loss. One that has not been a problem until now, and none of my usual parenting tools are working. I am not a wishy-washy parent. I have expectations and set boundaries, and up until recently they have been met - largely without me having to "do" anything to enforce them. I have attributed this behavior change in part to the big changes in her life (new sibling born in May) and also to her age, as I have many friends with 3 year olds and they are all having similar struggles.

So I would be thrilled to hear of ways I can approach this that don't involve threats, coercion or punishment, because I haven't been able to figure it out.

Additionally, though, I can imagine it being uncomfortable just having your legs dangling, and the impulse to swing and kick the legs is probably pretty normal. And it seems to me that 3 year olds just don't have much impulse control







.


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## amcal (Jan 13, 2003)

I'm big on natural consequences. So, personally, I would tell my child that if they kick my seat, we won't be able to go places.

I would also tell my DDs before we leave for a favorite place what the expectation is. I would say "We are going to the park to have a fun time but, it really hurts Mommy's back when you kick my seat. Please do not kick my seat and if you do, we will have to go back home".

The natural consequence of kicking your seat is that you aren't able to drive. And, make sure you follow through. Even if you need to run errands, go to the grocery store, are on your way to the park or a play date etc.... Tell her to stop kicking the seat, let her know the consequence of kicking the seat is that you will not be able to go places and then if she doesn't stop, turn the car around and go home.


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## Shanana (May 11, 2005)

As usual, there is no gain without pain







. Most of our outings are for MY benefit, since being home alone with her drives me batty. So I think turning around and heading home would hurt me more than her







. It's something to consider, though. I am already fighting her on so many things right now, I'm just reluctant to add yet another battle to the list. I'm clearly needing to make some adjustments to my parenting, however.


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## amcal (Jan 13, 2003)

I bet you the threat of turning around is enough. You may have to actually turn around once or twice but, once she sees you're serious, I bet just a reminder of the rule will be enough.

Good luck mama!


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## Shanana (May 11, 2005)

Just had to say I feel that going home because of the kicking is actually more of a "logical" consequence. I think of natural consequences as being something more like breaking your toe from kicking the seat, or falling and slipping from running on a wet surface, etc.

In this case, it is still my _choice_ to turn around. I could just as easily choose to ignore her or try to find a different solution (e.g., the footrest). That said, I'm not entirely opposed to logical consequences, since I'm a person and I count too. I think it's much better than, say, taking away her ice cream because she kicked the seat. To me, it is at least logical to say, "Kicking my seat makes me uncomfortable, and I therefore don't wish to drive anywhere."

I still might get the footrest though







.


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## amcal (Jan 13, 2003)

You're right. I use natural and logical interchangably and I probably shouldn't. It is a logical consequence.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

First, I'd check in the Family Safety area here at MDC to see if those footrests are safe. Lots of add-ons you can buy aren't. I'm no expert and have no idea.

Second, if they *ARE* safe, and it were a choice between fighting over kicking the seat for ages, or just buying the footrest, I'd buy the footrest. But I must say I'm concerned that it might not be safe. Like, in an accident, where would it end up?

My daughter was in the middle when she was in that stage and there wasn't really any good place to kick. Is there any way to move her seat elsewhere in the car? I can no longer see your signature so I don't know how many kids you have but that's another option.


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## Qalliope (Oct 22, 2004)

Well, if you're looking for a more consensual answer, you'll probably get more like-minded suggestions in the gentle discipline forum. But I'll do my best here. The footrest will work great if the problem is that she is uncomfortable with her legs dangling, but not if there is some other issue at work. IMHO that sort of persistence is a strong cue that there is some hidden need that she can't express well enough for you to address effectively. I would guess that she is either lonely or frustrated at the separation that is a necessity when you are driving, i.e. you are present but not available to her in the way she would like, or she is simply a very active child and gets easily bored and restless when strapped in like that. Can you work on building her repertoire of songs that have fingerplays, or simple games like "I spy" so that she has something to engage her mind and body a bit while driving? You can make it a fun ritual; you would have to initiate it every time you got her in the car by asking what song she wants to start with, etc., but she would probably be able to carry on independently after a while.

My ds, 5, would kick my seat at that age. My response to seat kicking is usually, "Oh, you're kicking my seat, is there something you need? or did you want to tell me something?" I figured out that requests to stop work better if I only address the fact that seat kicking is uncomfortable for me and that there are better ways to get my attention AFTER I have addressed whatever caused him to kick in the first place.


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## Past_VNE (Dec 13, 2003)

I can't address the issue. But, I can say that that footrest is definitely not safe. The part that goes between the car's seat and the child seat is the issue. Anything in between there can cause a hazard, making the seat not stay in place well during a crash. On www.car-seat.org there are instructions on how to cut a pool noodle down to size and use some rope or webbing to attach it around the carseat base to create a footrest. We did it for a road trip and it worked great. If a foot rest is what she needs, you could look into that.


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## mamalemon (Mar 25, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanana* 
I agree that this is at least in part a behavior issue, but to be honest, I don't know what the consequences should be. I don't hit, threaten or coerce. I don't take privileges away (not that she really even has any at 3, and we already don't watch TV







). I explain to her that it's hurting me and ask her to stop. And she doesn't. Actually, this behavior has become an overarching theme in the last few months, and I am somewhat at a loss. One that has not been a problem until now, and none of my usual parenting tools are working. I am not a wishy-washy parent. I have expectations and set boundaries, and up until recently they have been met - largely without me having to "do" anything to enforce them. I have attributed this behavior change in part to the big changes in her life (new sibling born in May) and also to her age, as I have many friends with 3 year olds and they are all having similar struggles.

So I would be thrilled to hear of ways I can approach this that don't involve threats, coercion or punishment, because I haven't been able to figure it out.

Additionally, though, I can imagine it being uncomfortable just having your legs dangling, and the impulse to swing and kick the legs is probably pretty normal. And it seems to me that 3 year olds just don't have much impulse control







.

Like I said, my 3 year old son stops when I tell him it hurts. Even if he was uncomfortable, it wouldn't be ok to kick my seat after I ask him not to. I would take him home and explain to him that we can't go anywhere right now because he is having trouble behaving in the car. When he was ready to try again and not hurt me, we can go somewhere.


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## Malva (Nov 2, 2005)

She's only been facing forward for a week. The novelty and the kicking shouldn't last.


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## Shanana (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Qalliope* 
My ds, 5, would kick my seat at that age. My response to seat kicking is usually, "Oh, you're kicking my seat, is there something you need? or did you want to tell me something?" I figured out that requests to stop work better if I only address the fact that seat kicking is uncomfortable for me and that there are better ways to get my attention AFTER I have addressed whatever caused him to kick in the first place.

Thanks, this is very helpful. I always prefer to try for cooperation, and have the expectation that my child will do the "right" thing when given the opportunity. But with the new baby, I'm so tired and scattered I sometimes have a hard time seeing my way there. I was raised in an authoritarian household, so this stuff doesn't always come naturally to me.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Past_VNE* 
I can't address the issue. But, I can say that that footrest is definitely not safe. The part that goes between the car's seat and the child seat is the issue. Anything in between there can cause a hazard, making the seat not stay in place well during a crash. On www.car-seat.org there are instructions on how to cut a pool noodle down to size and use some rope or webbing to attach it around the carseat base to create a footrest. We did it for a road trip and it worked great. If a foot rest is what she needs, you could look into that.

Thanks, I'll look into that link.


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## Polliwog (Oct 29, 2006)

Some kids really need to stretch their legs when they're in the car with their legs dangling down. They aren't trying to hurt, they just need more room than the available space allows. My son is a stretcher. He now stretches to the sides more often than the front but needed to be shown that it was an option.


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

The nice thing about Britax seats is they can be installed fairly upright and can be shoved into the front seat. I bet the seat would fit rfing behind you, eliminating her being able to kick your seat.


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## Past_VNE (Dec 13, 2003)

Unless I'm misunderstanding your suggestion, Jennifer, that wouldn't work. The OP says she has reached 33 lbs, the Britax max....at least most of them. As much as I am a fan of extended RF, I wouldn't go out and buy another Britax for two lbs of longer RF.


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## cosmos (Nov 22, 2001)

Sorry but this post makes me laugh (at myself). I just decided one day to not let the kicking bother me and I just don't feel it anymore. One thing in a long line of things I gave in to







I don't even realize my kids do it anymore until DH gets in the car and keeps trying to get them to stop kicking. Dumb suggestion from a tired mama?


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## Polliwog (Oct 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Past_VNE* 
Unless I'm misunderstanding your suggestion, Jennifer, that wouldn't work. The OP says she has reached 33 lbs, the Britax max....at least most of them. As much as I am a fan of extended RF, I wouldn't go out and buy another Britax for two lbs of longer RF.

I think she was suggesting that the baby be the one behind the driver, rear facing.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

I'm with the "Please stop" contingent. If my children are doing something that is distracting me from driving, then it isn't safe to drive. So I pull the car over, and we just sit there until everyone is ready to continue on in a safe (non-kicking) manner.

Of course, first I would make sure there wasn't a genuine reason for the kicking.


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## Shanana (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thepeach80* 
The nice thing about Britax seats is they can be installed fairly upright and can be shoved into the front seat. I bet the seat would fit rfing behind you, eliminating her being able to kick your seat.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Past_VNE* 
Unless I'm misunderstanding your suggestion, Jennifer, that wouldn't work. The OP says she has reached 33 lbs, the Britax max....at least most of them. As much as I am a fan of extended RF, I wouldn't go out and buy another Britax for two lbs of longer RF.

I'm assuming she means dd2's seat. So she is suggesting I put dd2's Marathon rear-facing behind me, and move dd1 forward-facing behind the passenger seat. When dd1 was rear-facing in the Decathlon, we had her on the passenger side with dd2 in her bucket behind me - which fit, barely. I really don't think I can comfortably have the Marathon rear-facing behind me. I couldn't even stand to sit in the passenger seat with dd1's Decathlon rear-facing behind me, and that was when I didn't have to deal with moving my feet between pedals! So I don't think moving her is an option.

I've gotten some good suggestions to try out here, though







.


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## zeldamomma (Jan 5, 2006)

Initially, I would try to prevent the kicking by helping her find something else to do. Audiobooks, talking about the stuff you're driving past, asking her to sing to the baby...

As for the whole "do I impose a consequence for this" question, I think its a question of how much it bothers you. I'm not terribly tall, so that might make seat-kicking a smaller issue for me than it is for you, but *for me* I would redirect kicking, and avoid saying "do not kick my seat" unless I was willing to take some kind of action to make the kicking stop (e.g. parking the car until she agrees to knock it off). Personally, I would go with stopping the car temporarily mid-errand, rather than going straight home because it's a more concrete, immediate consequence (if I kick mommy's seat, mommy can't drive), and it works if you're on your way home too.

ZM


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## lara1828 (Aug 11, 2005)

I haven't read the whole thread, so sorry if this is redundant.

We had a major problem with my ds1 kicking the front seat on long trips, to the point that it was dangerous.

We started putting his suitcase under his feet so he has a foot rest and YES, it helped A LOT. The other thing we do is stop if he is kicking the seat and have him jump off something like a bench or retaining wall onto the sidewalk. This also definately stopped the kicking for a while.

In our case it I really believe it was a physical issue (tired dangling legs) - NOT a behavior issue to be dealt with with distractions or "consequences".

Good luck!

Lara


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## Bleu (Mar 6, 2004)

I can't stand seat kicking either, so I appreciate all the suggestions here.

The only things I haven't seen mentioned already are:

get one of those mats for under the carseat & let them kick that instead, if you're comfortable with it
suggest kicking their feet together instead (like clapping, only with feet)
offer to let them _rest_ their feet, _without shoes_, on the seatback, as long as it is not _pushing_ the seat. This may be too nuanced for a younger kid or a kid who's already frustrated, tired, cranky, etc.


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