# 1st miscarriage after healthy pregnancies



## malzimus (Aug 4, 2006)

I give you my sincere sympathy if you have come to this thread because of a similar loss.

I hardly know where to start.

My body is currently in the process of completing a miscarriage. I went to the health food store today and bought *Red Raspberry Tea and Evening Primrose oil and started taking it tonight to hopefully cause quicker progression. If it doesn't break up before passage, the ultrasound tech said the sac I should expect to pass could be between the size of an almond and walnut or maybe the size of a large marble.







This past week, especially the last couple of days, has been stressful and hard on me mentally, emotionally and physically. I have had two healthy pregnancies before this one. Each of those took about 4-6 months to conceive with but this one happened on the first try because we just happened to "do stuff" at the right time.

Last week, at approx. 11 weeks pregnant, I started having very mild/small "show"-it went from brownish to pink then red. I was concerned and we saw my midwife on Thursday which made me feel a little better. We thought maybe it could have been from DH's and my recent "bedroom activity" about two days prior. I had been feeling as though something was "off" for a week or more because my pregnancy symptoms gradually started to lessen. It was in conjunction with the end of the first trimester so it was confusing because some symptoms are similar. Monday morning around 5am I passed 2-3 clots and had more blood, very red that time. I saw the midwife again and we weren't able to find a heartbeat (which isn't uncommon so early on). We discussed options and I decided on an ultrasound for the "visual" instead of just blood tests for HcG Quant. several days apart.

My Mummy instinct knew before we even started that everything was not ok and it was confirmed. The instant the ultrasound picture popped up on the screen I could see that there was no baby in the sac.







There was something tiny which the ultrasound tech said could be a blood clot or *might* have been a baby that stopped developing but it was really tiny (couple mm long). I was supposed to be right at 12 weeks but the sac only measured about 7w1d and the little "spot" in the sac measured 5w4d I think. There's no way of really knowing if I passed a baby or not because it would have been tiny and could even have been in one of the clots. Based on the ultrasound, she said she thought it was most likely a blighted ovum.

At this point, I'm not really sure how to grieve. I had deep, gut-wrenching crying about mid-day on the day of the ultrasound before we found out. I've cried mostly when receiving kind words and condolences from close family and friends as I've told them and again today when we told our DS (6) and DD (almost 4). I know that once everything passes it will officially be called a miscarriage. I am torn between being relieved that maybe the baby didn't develop when the egg implanted (which is when I believe "life" begins) so in a way there wasn't a "baby" to lose and feeling like I need permission to grieve in case I did lose a "baby". From what she said, the clots I passed could have had the baby in it because it would have been very tiny. Somehow, the blighted ovum seems easier to cope with but there's that not knowing for certain that is just really bothering me.

I'd love to hear from anyone out there that would like to talk whether it's a 1st pregnancy or many more. I'm also curious to know if anyone has specifically had two m/c followed by one or more losses?

Blessings and Hugs...

Arianne

P.S. *I made the tea with the teabags, finely grated ginger, some fresh mint and some local raw honey.


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## LLQ1011 (Mar 28, 2012)

So much love to you and your family. I have had two losses but they were later. Its hard to go through any loss of a baby. My sister just has a very actually almost identical loss to what you are going through. Miscarriage is devastating no matter the time frame.


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## malzimus (Aug 4, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LLQ1011*
> 
> So much love to you and your family. I have had two losses but they were later. Its hard to go through any loss of a baby. My sister just has a very actually almost identical loss to what you are going through. Miscarriage is devastating no matter the time frame.


Hi LLQ1011,

Thank you so much for the love and caring. Yes, it is devastating and I am sincerely sorry to hear about your personal losses and that of your sister also. I hope it's ok to ask but were yours also recent losses? I am sure you are a great comfort to your sister and hope that you both find continued healing as you support and help her through this very difficult time.

I wonder if the timing and circumstances of mine, though difficult, is a saving grace as I don't know how I would cope if I was further along and the baby was bigger and everything that comes with that. The ultrasound I had was my first, requested by me because my intuition was telling me it was over already) even though I was supposed to be 12 weeks. Both of my children were born via c-sections (now unnecessary in my view) and I was planning on having a VBAC home or birth center birth with this one. I had healthy pregnancies with both of them without even any bleeding in the very beginning nor any other time during. I'm still processing a lot of thoughts, feelings, etc. as it's still very new. I wonder if it's something with my health (like hypothyroidism returning) or if there was an abnormality as I've read there could have been. I wonder why it happened, why this way, why now and have been praying too. I can't explain it but I have this feeling like maybe it is because of something negative? that might happen in the near future (like a freak accident and DH dying or something) that perhaps might have made it difficult or impossible for me to cope with either being pregnant or having a new baby. Oh the places the mind goes...

Thank you once again for your very timely support!


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## LLQ1011 (Mar 28, 2012)

Mine were not recent, they both happened it 2010. All of the things you described here are all feelings I went through too. Its normal to question so much after a loss i think. Its weird that you say

Quote:


> is a saving grace as I don't know how I would cope if I was further along and the baby was bigger and everything that comes with that.


I just had this conversation with my sister. I now have a 10 month old but when I was 6 weeks pregnant with him I bled a lot and had to go to the er 4 times. I cried the whole way there because how was I going to get through losing a baby without ever getting to hold it, or have keepsakes, memories of its features, ashes to spread (He was ok though). I really realized then that it doesn't matter when you lose a baby.

My sister also knew. She told me weeks ago. With both of mine I knew. I fought so hard with my midwife and doctors and they would not listen, I knew something was not right. Even after we had answers as to why we still played scenarios of what we could have done.


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## sahmmie (Jan 13, 2008)

I'm sorry. I had an 11 week loss after a perfectly normal first pregnancy. You never forget but you do heal (it's been 11 years!). I had two more children since then. I'm not sure if the healing would have been harder had I not had children after the loss though.

Again, I'm sorry. I know how much it hurts.


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## Shiloh (Apr 15, 2005)

I had a D&C at 11 weeks after 4 uneventful pregnancies.
That was almost 4 months ago.
It was brutal, have now gone 3 days without crying!
A new record. I finally held my friends 6 month old baby, and had a good cry.
A blighted ovum is a real mindF.
There's a pregnancy but no "baby".
Now I feel that there having been no identifiable fetus was a blessing.
My baby grew wings but no body, I think seeing my baby dead would have been another trauma.
It was bad enough.
And it was bad, lonely, horrible, scary.
But I also feel my body can carry a pregnancy as it held on for so long and did a good job of being a little pregnant.
Its hard to be pregnant, feel pregnant but not be carrying a baby.
But it was all hard, so out of control.
I wish you an uneventful rainbow when your healing comes.


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## malzimus (Aug 4, 2006)

Hi Ladies,

Thank you SO much for your responses, I really appreciate them, and I hope to be able to reply in more detail soon.

I am in bleeping strong pain right now, the worst thus far! This feels like what I envision full on labor to feel like. I did go into labor with my son and was even 5 minutes apart at one point but long story short, I ended up having a c-section. This is WAY more painful than anything I experienced during the time I was in labor with him and it is in my entire mid-section both front and back. I am SOOOOO ready for this to be over. I've been bleeding and passing "stuff" for almost 2 weeks now. The past 4-5 days have been most intense, especially tonight.

How long did it take each of you to get through this stage? I never have nor do I now want to have a D & C but I've briefly been considering it just so this can all be over with. It's been getting incrementally more painful with each major "event" when things exit and they seem to be getting bigger off and on. I know my body is doing what it's naturally supposed to do and I don't have any reason for concern regarding possible infection but I'm always mindful. There have been a few days/partial days in-between with little to nothing of anything and just when I think "oh, maybe it's over" another round of everything seems to start again. I've been taking Red Raspberry Leaf Tea and Evening Primrose Oil pretty much daily since about the evening of the 19th? I KNOW they are helping and cringe to think of how long this would take without them. The ultrasound tech has said for me to expect to pass something about the size of an almond to walnut or large marble maybe. I've passed SO much more than that it isn't even funny. I know some of it is large clots and some is probably the lining shedding? I really don't mean to sound whiny, I'm just in a lot of pain and explaining. I apologize if this is TMI or if this brings back too many memories for anyone but I am just really hoping for some feedback.

At first, it hardly seemed real, I guess there was some disbelief though I just "knew" something was wrong,

but now it's so very painful and definitely hitting home more. I took a very strong prescription pain pill (that I still have

from something else a long time ago) about 45 minutes ago and it's not really even touching the pain right now.

Did experiencing m/c(s) make any of you decide not to TTC again even if you'd planned on having more children? I'm sure now is not the time

for me to be deciding on this but even though I'm not one to give up and I'd probably always wonder if it was possible, it's got me wondering.

May God bring (continued) healing to us all and again, I am SO sorry for all of the loss(es).

Thank you so much.


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## LLQ1011 (Mar 28, 2012)

I had that issue after both births. But after our son i went through a day or two of labor pain then it would go away and i would think it was over. Then it would start up again all while passing stuff. After three weeks I had to have a d&c for "retained products of conception" So if it keeps up I would call your doctor. It was hard to go through all of that and still need the procedure. But my body just would not let it go.


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## pattimomma (Jul 17, 2009)

I am so sorry you are going through this.









I have had ten pregnancies, six live births, four losses. The losses were in between live births. My last loss was March 2012 (twins). We are planning to start TTC again in January. I have had a D&C or surgery for ectopic for each of my m/c. I tried to go natural with one and still ended up with a D&C because the bleeding just would not stop.

Here are a couple of threads you might like:

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1361259/waiting-to-ttc-special-circumstances-september-2012

and

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1364256/mommas-who-already-have-children


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## malzimus (Aug 4, 2006)

Thank you all so much for your replies!

I'm feeling really discouraged, tired and confused right now. I'm TRYING my best to trust my body to take care of this and I'm trying to avoid a D & C but part of me is just exhausted and wants this over with but the rest of me feels like I would feel like a failure again and wants to wait a few more days at least because I've already gone through so much?! My body is tired and I can feel all the sore/tired muscles from having the contractions (all around my mid-section and back and upper legs). DH asked me if I wanted to go to the ER this morning when I was having the contractions and passing stuff. I told him no which he was ok with. Then, later at lunch he said maybe we could give it a few more days then go get checked out to make sure everything is going as it should, I sort of agreed to it.

I don't know if I've passed the sac yet or if that's what the contractions have been trying to do. It could have come in pieces by now and probably wouldn't have be recognizable to me. I know the ultrasound tech said/sounded surprised that it was so high up in my uterus given that I was bleeding and starting to miscarry?!?

The thing is, although it's an "unknown" and as painful as all get out, I don't really have any other reasons for concern like I would if I was in pain with no clots, etc. to show for it.

I texted with the midwife today and she said she thought it's probably time to see an o.b. (have been bleeding since before the 18th when I had the ultrasound). I'm taking natural stuff to help and I want answers but I don't want to go to my O.B. because I know she's the type that will probably recommend a D & C before she even sees me.


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## porcelina (May 2, 2007)

Hi malzimus, just reading through your thread now. Have you gone to see an OB? It does sound like after 16 days of bleeding it might be time to go see the OB, especially if you are feeling tired and ready to move on. At least they can look (ultrasound) to see if the sac has been expelled. I had 45 days of bleeding and spotting after a miscarriage in 2005 (but I did take misoprostol, not sure if it would have been different had I not taken it).

I am on day 4 of bleeding right now, and am wondering how long it will be before it is all over. My OB made me come up with a "plan" of what we would do after 1-2 weeks of expectant management (natural miscarriage). I took cytotec for a previous loss, and have vowed never to do that again, so I decided to consent to a D&E at 16 days post-bleeding. I truly hope my body can do it on its own, but I also don't want to risk tissue retention or infection. So, for me, that sounded like a good balance -- give my body a chance, but not let it draw on indefinitely. I'll see how I feel in a couple of weeks!

Oh, and he also gave me a prescription for perkaset and said to get it filled BEFORE the pain starts. Given the pain I felt during my last miscarriage, I am definitely going to fill it just in case.

I'm so sorry for your loss and wishing you strength as you move through this!


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## malzimus (Aug 4, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LLQ1011*
> 
> I had that issue after both births. But after our son i went through a day or two of labor pain then it would go away and i would think it was over. Then it would start up again all while passing stuff. After three weeks I had to have a d&c for "retained products of conception" So if it keeps up I would call your doctor. It was hard to go through all of that and still need the procedure. But my body just would not let it go.


Hi again *LLQ1011*, 

Thank you for this advice and I'm sorry you had to go through that, after birth no less (the Dr. of mw just didn't get all of it??).

I went to my O.B. yesterday. Long story short, we agreed on blood tests for HcG level, CBC to check for any sign of infection but it will also show if any anemia is showing up (I wouldn't be surprised) and also having my TSH, T4, T3 (per my request) tested for my thyroid. I asked for antibodies too but she said they'd only test that if the others show something abnormal?! I asked her if they could re-test using the same blood sample (want to avoid addit. cost) and she said yes IF they got the results back fast enough. In Jan. she tested my thyroid and said tests were abnormal (again but opposit end of the spectrum). We waited about a month and I went to my GP, results were slightly higher and HE said he thought based on the numbers it was fine. SHE said yesterday that those Feb. results were still abnormal. I know Dr.'s debate things and I know my numbers were off, just wish I knew 100% which way to go and I'm not sure if/how much a preg. and m/c will affect those numbers seeing as how baby needs SO much more thyroid hormones to be produced in the beginning. IF the blood tests come back showing high HcG she'll know I haven't passed the sac (she said based on what I've told her she doesn't think I have). If any sign of infection, it'll be a D&C. If no sign she has agreed to let me continue trying naturally

but with her monitoring things. O.B. said she thought she'd have the blood tests results by this morning/today so I sched. the ultrasound for today at 3pm so I can hopefully cancel it if need be.

A lot was said during the O.B. visit and I'll probably post about it somewhere because I'd like others' feedback on some things. I can't right now as I'm making brunch and then my son has Math and Word Building Tests (homeschool).

I have to run now, more later hopefully.


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## malzimus (Aug 4, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sahmmie*
> 
> I'm sorry. I had an 11 week loss after a perfectly normal first pregnancy. You never forget but you do heal (it's been 11 years!). I had two more children since then. I'm not sure if the healing would have been harder had I not had children after the loss though.
> 
> Again, I'm sorry. I know how much it hurts.


sahmmie,

I am so sorry for your loss as well.









I'm not sure about the healing being easier with more children afterwards either but in my mind from where I sit right now my guess would be "yes" it might help lessen things for various reasons, including knowing I was able to go on and have healthy pregnancies afterwards. May I ask how long you waited before trying again? My O.B. says after 3 "normal" cycles after the end of the bleeding, that the m/c blood doesn't count (I didn't tell her but some midwives count it). My DH and I haven't really fully discussed if/when to try again. There are a lot of things to consider and this loss has brought up some other things for me to think about too. He hasn't said no or indicated that he doesn't want to try again and we have talked about insurance for next year because our open enrollment is coming up and we already know rates will be going up AGAIN...sigh. I think he's open to it but would prob. say he wants to make sure I'm ready physically, mentally, emotionally, etc.

Thank you again.


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## malzimus (Aug 4, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *porcelina*
> 
> Hi malzimus, just reading through your thread now. Have you gone to see an OB? It does sound like after 16 days of bleeding it might be time to go see the OB, especially if you are feeling tired and ready to move on. At least they can look (ultrasound) to see if the sac has been expelled. I had 45 days of bleeding and spotting after a miscarriage in 2005 (but I did take misoprostol, not sure if it would have been different had I not taken it).
> 
> ...


Hi porcelina,

I am SO SO sorry that you are going through this again.














I will be praying for you and that you are able to progress through this stage as easily as possible and for support in other ways. I think the plan that you and your O.B. came up with is very reasonable from both sides! I really hope your body will cooperate with your wishes. Have you tried any natural things? I have been taking Evening Primrose Oil and drinking Red Raspberry Leaf Tea and for the past 4 days or so have also been taking Black Cohosh. All of them help in various ways with "women things" and at this point can be helpful with encouraging our bodies to let go/pass things, faster than they would otherwise I think.

I just posted this in reponse to LLQ1011's reply to me so I'll copy it here regarding my O.B. visit yesterday.

"I went to my O.B. yesterday. Long story short, we agreed on blood tests for HcG level, CBC to check for any sign of infection but it will also show if any anemia is showing up (I wouldn't be surprised) and also having my TSH, T4, T3 (per my request) tested for my thyroid. I asked for antibodies too but she said they'd only test that if the others show something abnormal?! I asked her if they could re-test using the same blood sample (want to avoid addit. cost) and she said yes IF they got the results back fast enough. In Jan. she tested my thyroid and said tests were abnormal (again but opposit end of the spectrum). We waited about a month and I went to my GP, results were slightly higher and HE said he thought based on the numbers it was fine. SHE said yesterday that those Feb. results were still abnormal. I know Dr.'s debate things and I know my numbers were off, just wish I knew 100% which way to go and I'm not sure if/how much a preg. and m/c will affect those numbers seeing as how baby needs SO much more thyroid hormones to be produced in the beginning. IF the blood tests come back showing high HcG she'll know I haven't passed the sac (she said based on what I've told her she doesn't think I have). If any sign of infection, it'll be a D&C. If no sign she has agreed to let me continue trying naturally

but with her monitoring things. O.B. said she thought she'd have the blood tests results by this morning/today so I sched. the ultrasound for today at 3pm so I can hopefully cancel it if need be.

A lot was said during the O.B. visit and I'll probably post about it somewhere else too because I'd like others' feedback on some things."

If you are able to share with me, I would be very interested in hearing about your experiences with Cytotec and Misoprostol. My overall impression of them is that they may get the job done but that they are "bad news" when it comes to our health. My O.B. gave Cytotec as one of my 3 options but she said "I have never 'let' anyone go beyond 1 week of trying naturally...and I've never tried Cytotec with someone whose miscarriage is incomplete". When we talked about infection and subsequent D & C, Cytotec, etc. all carrying risks for infertility problems and I asked, she acknowledged that Cytotec can cause uterine trauma. I do want this all to be over with but just wish I knew how quickly each thing would go.  I was a little surprised but happy when she said the 3rd option would be to continue to let me try this naturally whilst being monitored by her, provided the blood tests do not show any sign of infection when we get them.

Thank you for your caring reply and I am sorry you are going through this. Please feel free to PM me if you would like at any time, I know what you're going through.


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## malzimus (Aug 4, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pattimomma*
> 
> I am so sorry you are going through this.
> 
> ...


Hi pattimomma,

I've been following you on a couple of other threads.  Thank you for your caring words.

I can't imaging having gone through what you have with four losses and the "unknowns" with them being between live births but I'm so glad to hear that you have been able to have more children after losses.

I have just posted a few more replies and included some information from my O.B. appt yesterday, if you're interested in reading it for an update. IF my HcG levels come back today and show high levels like the sac hasn't passed yet and IF there are any signs of infection, I will have no choice but to have a D & C.







Do you think scarring from the D & C's could have contributed to the other losses in between? IF you are willing and able to share, could you tell me a little bit about your experiences with the D & C's and possibly offer any tips and advice to me? I have had two c-sections (only surgeries in my life thus far) so I'm not "scared" of pain or surgery per se it's more the unknown, wanting to be informed and knowing what to ask for and what to refuse. I don't want to be "out" 100% because although I don't think I'm allergic, I don't think my body likes anesthesia with how I feel afterwards. My O.B. said I could have a spinal like with the c-sections but my recovery would take longer and I definitely don't want that. In ALL of this, I have a joint birthday party/outing for my children coming up on Saturday (in two days) and I DON'T want this to interfere. I can't be in a hospital bed or home resting, even if I have to have a D & C I would probably still go on Saturday if I was physically able! What was your recovery and length of time like with each? IF there is no sign of infection, she's already agreed to let me try a bit longer naturally so I will probably wait until after the weekend before I do anything more like the ultrasound, etc. We'll probably re-test HcG next week too IF they indicate now that the sac has passed. Sigh...it's such a waiting game.

Thank you for the links to those other threads. I'm already in the Oct. (and Sept.) special circumstances one and I just browsed around in the other one the other day.

Blessings,

Arianne


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## malzimus (Aug 4, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiloh*
> 
> I had a D&C at 11 weeks after 4 uneventful pregnancies.
> That was almost 4 months ago.
> ...


Hi Shiloh,

Thank you for your reply and for sharing your experiences and thoughts and I am so sorry for the loss you experienced at 11 weeks. It is very difficult and my prayer is that we can both (and all here) continue to heal and cope and move through it all as well as can be expected. I'm sure you had a lot of mixed feelings holding your friend's baby but I'm glad you found the strength too, the crying is sad but good cries can be cathartic and healing.

Yes, a blighted ovum is very confusing and as you said "it's hard to be pregnant, feel pregnant but not be carrying a baby" and yes it is "bad, lonely, horrible, scary". There was what *could* have been a fetal pole in the sac. I was 12 weeks, sac measured 7w1d, "fetal pole" measured 5w4d? I think. I hope I never find out but I don't know how I would have handled it if I had a 12 week baby that passed at that stage. I think for me, in some ways, seeing and possibly holding might have been healing too because right now I don't know if there was a baby or not, I'm not sure which is harder for me. I agree, I have that "feeling" too about my body having held on for so long being a good thing as far as being pregnant and staying pregnant goes. IF there is a way to figure out why this happened then I feel solving that first could be the answer. I had 2 perfectly health pregnancies before this m/c. I have more questions than answers as to why it could have happened, should I have been on thyroid medicine, was it something I ate or drank or because I'm "heavier" now or something I did or...or...or...or....I may never know. It is very hard, in all respects, and yes the lack of control probably adds to that. For me, all I can do is try to pray when I'm able and turn to God, whom I know has been with me for many years and to accept with thankfulness the support received here in the forums and from the few friends and family that know about it.

Thank you for the rainbow wishes! I'm not sure where we are on that as we haven't talked in depth about whether we'll try again. My mind and emotions go back and forth both ways between wanting to try and not letting a m/c be the last "reproductive" experience I have but wrestling with "what if it happens again, can I go through that again"?! I'm the sort of person that needs and wants answers. If I can't find them I look elsewhere and keep searching until I'm as satisfied as I can be in any circumstance. It'll be hard not knowing what caused this m/c (though my O.B. will probably quickly throw blame at my thyroid if tests show abnormally again and in her view I'm sure it'll be my fault for not doing anything about it in Jan./Feb. though in Feb. my GP said he thought overall my results from what he tested were ok), the only way I'd know is if I end up having to have a D & C and if they agree to do testing.

Thank you again and if it is your desire for one then I pray you will have an uneventful rainbow when your healing comes.

Arianne


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## pattimomma (Jul 17, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *malzimus*
> 
> Hi pattimomma,
> 
> ...


Hi Arianne,

My D&Cs (I have had three) were actually really easy. I was knocked out for no more than ten minutes with IV anesthesia. It was nothing like the anesthesia for the ectopic which was horrible. The doc used an ultrasound machine during the process to make sure everything was done carefully. I had very disturbing dreams while under anesthesia which was the worst part. The bleeding afterward was very minimal. My recovery was fast and there weren't really very many restrictions. It was don't lift anything over 20lbs, no jogging or heavy exercise, no sex or tampons, no baths or swimming. The restrictions applied for three weeks. I was told I could go back to work or school the day after the D&C. I don't have any scarring from the procedures so I don't think it has anything to do with the other losses. My last lost was weird there were two sacks one with an embryo and one without so maybe the other losses were the same. I don't know because I didn't have early ultrasounds.


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## malzimus (Aug 4, 2006)

Just a quick update because I thought that if my blood tests came back ok that I could cancel my 3pm ultrasound but my O.B. still wants me to go. I'm tempted not to because although it would be good information to know what's "left" I think it might be a bit of an unnecessary expense too.

I am really happy (and somewhat relieved) with my blood test results so far:

CBC - Normal!!! (which means no sign of infection or anemia I guess, woo hoo!!!)

HCG - 378 - which means I've passed some but prob. not all of the sac - she wants this retested tomorrow (it will have been 48 hours) - should be at 5 when all done??

Thyroid: TSH 5.5 - she wanted me to start on 25mg Synthroid (synthetic-which I will NOT take) so I asked if the 30mg Westhroid (natural-just took my first one) I already had from a while back

and she said that would work and they want to retest my thyroid in 3 weeks vs 4 weeks if I'm on that vs Syn. I asked her if it was possible that the 5.5 is high because of

the pregnancy, etc. and the nurse said yes it *could* be possible. If so, it's good news on my thyroid front anyway.

T3 was 26

T4 is 0.9 (this is great because in Feb. it was at 0.2 or so and that's not even in the range so I'm actually happy with this one!!)

I need to run and get my children ready to go to a friend's house while we go to the ultrasound unless I go alone and DH watches them, not sure yet.

I'll probably be on here again later.


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## sahmmie (Jan 13, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *malzimus*
> 
> sahmmie,
> 
> ...


Hi Malzimus, If I remember correctly I had to wait until HCG levels were normal. They tested it for three months, and so it was after 3 normal cycles, maybe four, that I got a letter from my doctor saying that my levels were normal and we could try again. I suffered the 11 week loss in July 2002 and I was pregnant again in December 2002. I hope you and dh will be on the same page about when you are ready to try again, and I hope you will continue to trust God in all things. It's so hard to be thankful at a time like this but I trust that God is good, and that He loves us perfectly. I remember that one of the ways I coped with my loss was to be thankful that I had a precious healthy child, my firstborn, because some women never get to be mothers, and I was thankful that one day I'll see and hold that baby I lost (in heaven). I truly believe that. God loved that baby more than I did, and all children are truly His children. Another thing that helped me was to give the baby a name, even though I never saw him or her. I chose a unisex name (Quinn) even though I instinctually feel that it was a girl.

How are you feeling?


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## porcelina (May 2, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *malzimus*
> 
> If you are able to share with me, I would be very interested in hearing about your experiences with Cytotec and Misoprostol. My overall impression of them is that they may get the job done but that they are "bad news" when it comes to our health. My O.B. gave Cytotec as one of my 3 options but she said "I have never 'let' anyone go beyond 1 week of trying naturally...and I've never tried Cytotec with someone whose miscarriage is incomplete". When we talked about infection and subsequent D & C, Cytotec, etc. all carrying risks for infertility problems and I asked, she acknowledged that Cytotec can cause uterine trauma. I do want this all to be over with but just wish I knew how quickly each thing would go.  I was a little surprised but happy when she said the 3rd option would be to continue to let me try this naturally whilst being monitored by her, provided the blood tests do not show any sign of infection when we get them.


My experience with misoprostol was pretty horrific. It caused enormous blood clots, I'm talking hard clots that were very difficult to pass, and they would not go away. I kept going back for follow up visits and she kept looking with the ultrasound saying that there were still some clots in there. There was one that was so huge and was so painful to pass, I went to the ER. While waiting to be seen, I passed (in the bathroom) a clot that was easily 5 inches long and with about a 2 inch diameter. If you read up on the drug, you will see that the use of it for inducing labor is off-label, and while extremely common, can and has caused uterine dysfunction including uterine rupture. In addition, I don't know if it is coincidence or what, but I had gotten pregnant on try 3 for my first miscarriage, and on my first subsequent ovulation for my second (the one for which I took cytotec). After that, we took a break for 3 months and then it still took us 8 months to get pregnant again, and then it was ectopic. Only 2.5 years after the the cytotec miscarriage did we have our first live birth.

Going through my miscarriage naturally right now, while no picnic in the park, I have had bleeding and loose clots, but nothing like those hard welts of almost coagulated blood I had when I used misoprostol. Of course, it has only been about 5 days now, and I have not passed the sac yet so I'm sure I have not experienced the worst of it, but it has been much more gentle on my body.

Granted, everyone is different, and while I had a horrible experience with it, someone else has had a great experience with it. But, I opted for surgical if necessary because I do not want to go through that again. Let me know if you have more specific questions!


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## malzimus (Aug 4, 2006)

Thank you so much for your replies, inquiries and concern.

It's 3:40am and I'm about to go to bed/exhausted but I have a very quick update.

I am thinking this whole sad ordeal will finally be over sometime soon. A few minutes before 2am I passed what I'm pretty sure has GOT to be at least the MAIN? part of what has been expected. Wow, I think I'm in shock/disbelief as to the size and the fact that it happened rather uneventfully compared to other nights/mornings with labor/contractions, etc. and though I'm hurting now I feel a sense of relief!

I haven't received the results of the ultrasound I had on Thursday @ 3pm but I am pretty sure this is a game changer. I also forgot that my O.B.'s office closes at 12pm on Fridays so I missed going in for my lab orders to get the "48 hours later" HcG test. I am actually kind of glad now. I have an appointment scheduled with her for Wed. and I'm trying to decide whether to keep that or push it back to Thursday if possible so that my body has more time to reach lower HcG levels. They were 378 on Wed. Do you think waiting longer is necessary if this really was "the event"?

I am wondering if any of you with knowledge of or experience doing so would be willing to PM me about the process, cost, etc. and how to go about getting testing done to possibly find a reason for why this m/c has happened.

Thank you...and goodnight.

P.S. I'm going to cross-post this to the HHC thread too as I'd love as much feedback as possible.


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## porcelina (May 2, 2007)

malzimus, I'm so glad that you think the main part of the loss has been passed. How was the pain level? And what was the size, more or less?

It definitely sounds like your body is taking care of it. I would imagine they will still want to follow the levels, but you can just refuse any other interventions they might suggest (i.e., "medical management" or D&C), saying that you passed the sac last night.

Good luck moving forward. We had fertility testing done after 3 losses (though technically 2 miscarriages and 1 ectopic). There is such a wide gamut of things that could be sub-optimal. Ultimately, we got the all-clear and nothing specific was "wrong." My insurance covered all of the testing, and any medications, but none of the fertility treatments (i.e., hormone shots, iui, ivf, etc.). Ultimately we ended up having success with a round of egg stimulation, then the hcg shot to stimulate ovulation, and we paid for one iui out of pocket (they would only allow 3 rounds of medication + iui before moving to hormone shots, which we did not, so we just paid for iui on the last cycle -- it took!), plus progesterone supplements after ovulation. Pregnancy with second child was natural, though I did take progesterone supplements once pregnant (and with current loss I had not taken supplements).

Keep in mind miscarriage is very "common" -- 30% of women ages 15-45 who have ever been pregnant have had a miscarriage (I calculated the stats myself from the U.S. National Survey of Family Growth). I think most docs would suggest trying again before running all of the tests.

Good luck!


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## malzimus (Aug 4, 2006)

Hi porcelina,

Thank you and I certainly hope that's the main part!

How are YOU feeling and doing today??? Wow, you have been through and are going through so much, I'm so sorry for your losses and everything that you have gone through relating to them!!!







I pray that you will be able to manage this loss naturally on your own without unnecessary intervention. Are you taking any herbs or natural supplements to help things along? I know it has helped me in this whole process so am just wondering.

I will try to answer your questions and I apologize in advance if any of it is TMI. I'm sorry, this reply turned out pretty long.

It was the weirdest thing because I've had times with contractions, etc. including two 3-4am wake-up's in severe pain with labor/contractions that lasted several hours

and where I passed the biggest pieces of lining, clots, and sac pieces?, etc. Last night I just had to go to the bathroom and within a few seconds I felt something coming

quickly that I knew was much bigger than anything before and then I heard it drop. It was about then that I started feeling any discomfort and it lasted for a few hours.

My back felt hot, I had some contraction-like throbbing and discomfort and started bleeding more than I had been. I'm still bleeding today and although I've had to change pads

I don't feel that it's excessive. It makes sense if it's "detachment" bleeding or if the "tissue" had been blocking some of it. You asked about the size. I actually wanted something for

reference so I used a couple of things. It is almost the length of a q-tip and at the widest point is about as around as if you put two AA batteries next to each other and wrapped something around them. That's why I'm so shocked that I didn't have any unusual pain leading up to passing it!!!

Yes, I am SOOOO thankful that it seems my body is continuing to do this on it's own, it's taken 3+ weeks so far but at least it's working on it!

I've been taking Evening Primrose Oil regularly and drinking Red Raspberry Leaf Tea and started Black Cohosh about 5-6? days ago and I've also been taking Cranberry to help with urinary tract health as well as prenatals and other vitamins.

Absolutely, my plan is to tell my O.B. that I passed it and ask her about having the "tissue" tested if it's not too late. I hope this doesn't sound too gross but I took pictures and then double-bagged it in zip lock bags and froze it just in case testing can be done. I still don't have the results of the ultrasound from the other day but in my view this sort of negates whatever they had found unless there is more very large tissue to pass (kind of doubtful). I will probably cancel my Wed. appt. with her and reschedule for next week but tell her that I will monitor for fever, bad odor, etc. and if I suspect any infection before then that I'll come in. I'll probably have the HcG done that was supposed to have been done on Friday but I'll hopefully be able to wait on that until Wed. or Thurs. (so I can have results before the weekend). I don't know exactly how it all works but with my HcG only having been 378 I'm surprised that it was that low given that I still had that large "tissue" inside.









DH and I haven't really discussed in full whether/when to try again but if that time comes, I don't know what course to take. I had planned to with this pregnancy (before loss) and would like to have a VBA2C at home (have since found out insurance won't cover it at home), a birthing center or in a midwife and willing O.B. type hospital environment (at O.U. Medical Center here). I'm not sure if I'd have my O.B. involved or just a midwife. I guess progesterone testing could be ordered by either if we thought it would be a good thing to test for when doing HcG levels perhaps.

Thank you for doing the calculations. This loss has made me painfully aware of just how common miscarriages are (in the U.S. anyway) so I know it's a possibility and was rather surprised by it after having had 2 healthy pregnancies prior. In a way I understand about waiting to test and in others I'd like to know just in case we try again and to help avoid any possible repeat of this whole scenario. I'd like to have the tissue tested but can't afford to do it out-of-pocket though I probably wouldn't let that stop me. I'm a very curious person and would really like to know if there are any issues with DH or me that could potentially have lead/lead to this but I doubt we'll go that route given that it's one loss (so sad to me that people/Dr.'s consider that trivial and not enough to worry about or test for because what if that testing could prevent future unnecessary loss?!?!). I'm nervous to try again but feel challenged like I don't want a miscarriage to be the last of my baby-related years. I don't want to have another one like this (12 weeks) but if, Lord forbid, it did happen again perhaps it wouldn't be so far along because I'd probably have early ultrasounds now and would know earlier?!

My TSH is high (5.5 vs 4.5 top of "range") but I don't know if levels during the preg. contributed to this. I also just remembered again that perhaps Coombs (RH factor stuff) could have been part of it? When my daughter was born, they sent in a ped. specialist, did tests, put her on medicines, etc. because they said tests showed that she/we had the RH difference thing where we both have the same blood type but some differences were causing ours to sort of attach each other?! They seemed surprised that we didn't know about it during pregnancy (not sure if any tests would have shown that) and basically said it was pretty amazing because it can cause miscarriages because of the incompatibility. So many possible "reasons"...

Thank you for your response and as you can see it's helped me sort of "process" some more of this out loud instead of just in my head...sigh.

Hugs to you.


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## porcelina (May 2, 2007)

Thanks for describing what you went through! It sounds like a pretty intense experience. Maybe all the painful contractions earlier were removing the pregnancy from the uterine wall, and then it just took some time to make its way out. I hope you get the answers you want with the testing.

I am starting to feel like I am under a strict deadline and that 2 weeks might not be enough. I guess I can reserve the right to try and bargain at my next appointment if I think I am on the right track. Doing this naturally has been so much more gentle on my body, I am really feeling good about it. I might try to postpone my appointment next week if things have not progressed on their own by then. For my first miscarriage, it passed with 10 days of bleeding and 5 of spotting (but size was 5.5 weeks instead of 6w2d), and from what I remember, it was just as painful as a normal period. So, I'm hoping that 2 weeks will be enough.

I'm not taking any supplements at this time. Do you think they helped you physically? Emotionally? I took some black (I think it was black but I get confused and can't quite remember, but whichever my midwife recommended) cohosh to help move labor forward with my first pregnancy once I was about 39 weeks, and I didn't feel like it did anything!

Regarding trying again, I totally know what you mean -- how can you move forward and knowingly expose a baby to some undetermined risk? And how do you move forward with a pregnancy knowing there is a risk of miscarriage and worrying about it constantly? It is really, really hard. I guess I understand why they treat miscarriage as kindof a fluke that sometimes has a reason (my doctor told me that usually it's the body's way of dealing with chromosomal abnormalities, and while that may be true in some cases, I don't think they can claim that's "usually" the reason), but still, to knowingly expose a future baby to the risk just seems like such an abomination. I hope you can find the support and answers you need moving forward.

Thanks for the updates!


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## malzimus (Aug 4, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *porcelina*
> 
> I'm not taking any supplements at this time. Do you think they helped you physically? Emotionally? I took some black (I think it was black but I get confused and can't quite remember, but whichever my midwife recommended) cohosh to help move labor forward with my first pregnancy once I was about 39 weeks, and I didn't feel like it did anything!


Just quickly (I have food on the stove, lol). YES, I absolutely think the Evening Primrose Oil, RRL Tea and Black Cohosh have helped. It cost me out of pocket from the health food store but it was well worth the money! They each can be used in pregnancy at different stages for different reasons and with the properties they have it can help get your body to go through this process. I think it would have taken even longer for me if I hadn't of been on them. I noticed a while after taking certain things that it seemed I would pass more or bigger clots and/or bleeding, so I think it did help. I only started taking the Black Cohosh about a week ago. If my observations are correct, it seemed to do the same as mentioned above but I also think it perhaps? contributed towards breaking things up into smaller parts before passing. Some of the herbal/natural things used in pregnancy have a cumulative effect, I'm not sure if Black Cohosh is more immediate but it seems like it might be given that she had you take it during labor. EPO is safer towards the end of pregnancy and can be used internally and orally to help soften the cervix (nothing "inside" during m/c though). I believe the RRL Tea can be used throughout pregnancy and helps to "tone" the uterus and there are varying reports on how it's helped Mamma's but they say it helps during labor and for recovery afterwards.

Oh, and yes, I do think they helped me some emotionally as well as physically. My feeling is that they helped support hormonal balance/stuff and through that have helped emotionally/mentally too.

There is currently a thread called "Red Raspberry" in the March 2013 DDC group. Here's the link, hopefully it'll work, otherwise you can do a search for it if you'd like. http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1364514/red-raspberry/30_30#post_17135175


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