# I'm so confused



## Tenk (Oct 6, 2006)

On Tuesday I went in for my 18 week check up and ultrasound. Monday night I had a dream that my appointment was the opposite of happy and sure enough, I was right. They went to check for his heart and it was gone. As silent as the night time air. Several Dr's and ultrasounds later we discovered he passed that morning and was a HE. We had been discussing names for a boy since my 11w ultrasound (we saw a boy nub) and DH like Oliver and I like Cullen. DH didn't want to name him at all but I needed that, he was growing in my body for 18w, he was my child, he deserved a name. So DH let me pick, I picked Oliver Cullen. We were at the hospital for several hours on Tuesday, discussing all options and procedures etc. and since my uterus can't labor my options were C-section or D&E. DH and I talked and decided the D&E would be best so that the recovery was easier on my body, mentally, and physically. After the decision was made I was told they had to insert seaweed sticks into my cervix to start the dilation process (I wasn't told this at first) and then I had to suffer thru the pain of having them inject numbing meds into my cervix and then add the sticks, which was equally as painful. I cried and shifted and moaned, and even screamed once. They assured me that I had less than 3% chance of going into labor on my own from the sticks and sent me home to return on Thursday morning for the D&E. I had pain all night long, into the next day and when the sticks fell out at exactly 24 hours after insertion I called freaking out (the wonderful MFM/high risk Dr gave me her home number) and she asked me if I was in pain and or bleeding. Yes and Yes. So we were told to rush into the ER and they would be ready for me. When I got there I was told to sit in the waiting room and then triage while they paged the Dr that was expecting me. Apparently the urgency of my situation (or my history) hadn't been explained with the same sense of urgency to every person because I was told to sit and wait. I waited in the stupid ER for several hours and then L&D for several hours until they could get me into the OR (I had eaten at 3:30 and they felt it was important to wait the full 6 hours after eating for being sedated). I had expressed my feelings on NOT wanting students in the room for any reason (I had to go to the damn teaching hospital, which I plan on filing a complaint against and will never go back, only had to go there for the MFM) and I told every person that came to chat with me that NO students and NO persons just "learning" were allowed to be there. The anastesiologist (sp?) came over and I told her the exact same thing because there were so many people coming and going in this area and a lot of them seemed totally unnecessary (IMO at least) and her response to me was ....well you do realize this IS a teaching hospital, right? If I hadn't been so numb to the idea and what was happening I would have kicked her in the freaking chin right then, but laying in the hospital bed and tubes everywhere kind of prevented that. Instead I responded to her with ...yes but it's MY vagina and MY baby not yours and not theirs. Not sure what kind of impression that left on her because soon after I was out like a light. I was given the drug Propafal (Michael Jackson's killer) and next thing I knew I was waking up in my post op room. DH saw the Dr afterwards who told him the baby looked like he had been dead for a few days (at this time we had know for 48 hours almost) and hurried off with some unidentified contents in a bag and bucket. I experienced lots of pain and bleeding after this, gushes, giant clots, and was told to call the nurse if I needed to get up for any reason and if I had big clots or gushing. Guess what, they all said the amount of bleeding was totally fine and the big clots were ok too, even though I've never in my life had clots that size. Someone finally called "my Dr" who ever the hell that was (since I wasn't with my regular OB and had been sent to the teaching hospital) and when she came in she said ,...why wasn't I called sooner if you have been bleeding this bad with clots?! I was warned that I might have to take a medication to clamp my uterus down if this continued and guess what ...it DID. Lots of other people came in and out of the room, all saying that my pain, and bleeding amounts were totally normal even though I soaked on of those giant hospital post partum pads in 15 minutes (seriously, it was pouring out). Another lady came in and I was in tears (an OB) and she asked what was wrong, I pointed out the swollen part of my stomach and the tenderness, and the amount of blood. She then said, what, why wasn't I notified that she was bleeding this badly and immediately called in some meds to help my uterus clamp down and I took some pain meds and thank goodness within a few hours the bleeding finally slowed down a bit. A bit later a lady came into the room and asked me if I had experienced anything less than pleasant during my stay. I started to cry and said YES everyone here is treating me like I should have expected everything that's going on, like I chose to have my son taken away, like I wanted this. My son was wanted, and loved, and I'm devastated that he's gone and I will never come to this stupid hospital again, EVER. She looked shocked and said she was sorry for my loss and my experience and would make sure that it didn't happen again.

After we finally came home and it started to sink in that our son is gone (maybe it hasn't I'm not sure) I was able to snuggle with my babies, and my husband and cry, just really cry and think back to all the crap that's happened and has gone on. Now I question my decisions, why didn't I just chose the c-section, at least then they couldn't deny me seeing my son. I begged the Dr to let me take the placenta home and they told me NO, it has to be examined etc. After reading more about the stupid D&E I found out that he was delivered whole, with forceps and I could have looked at him, held him, kissed him, and they totally denied me that right. I'm so angry at every single person involved in this. My regular OB called me and told me how sorry she was and that the entire office was thinking about me now, and to call them if I need anything at all... they are so amazing and helpful and caring. Now I feel like, because I had a D&E instead of a C-section that everyone is just brushing this off like I had a miscarriage that is unimportant and should be kept to myself. I've had 4 miscarriages, and THIS was not one of them, losing a child is difficult not matter how the child is lost, no matter the age of the child, but this experience was nothing like my miscarriages AT ALL. My son was 10 ounces, 6 inches + legs, and looked like a baby, he was stillborn, I didn't miscarry this time like not like the other times. And because of the method of delivery I chose not one person is acknowledging that he was a person, he just didn't live long enough to come out. My BFF is very helpful, and DH is trying very hard, but even he is grieving very differently than I am and wants to put all elements of Oliver's birth behind us ....one problem .... I STILL HAVE A 5 MONTH PREGNANT BELLY, my clothes don't fit, I'm aching and bleeding and crying and still wearing maternity clothes. I can't put this behind me now. My SIL (who was due the same day as me) texted last night (to DH) and said "how are things going? can you show mom and dad this great picture of the house we're building, all the walls are up, so exciting!!! I almost threw up when i read it. I responded for him saying "we just lost our son and my wife is in terrible pain, sure I'll show them. She then sent another one saying "we keep thinking about you guys, maybe T can get some relief soon" and I was so sick by then I said "IF YOU KEEP THINKING OF US THEN MAYBE YOU CAN SHOW THEM THE PICTURES OF YOUR HOUSE WHEN THEY COME HOME IN 2 DAYS" because she lives with them while her house is being built, why now, why couldn't she just wait 2 more days, why does she have to take this away from me?!?!?! Why can't I have this 5 minutes to grieve without her making it about her AGAIN. She stopped texting and I'm pretty sure called FIL this morning to tell on us for being so rude to her .... you know what, FUCK HER. I'm so angry and I'm angry at a lot of people. After our 4th child (DD) was stillborn and then we tried for 21 cycles to get pregnant again and all those fertility treatments and 3 miscarriages, during delivery my uterus ruptured and he was an emergency C-section, and then our sweet baby girl came along and was born at 33w5d via emergency C-section because she was showing signs of distress, and our last baby comes along only to be still born again. Why?! why do I have to do this so many times, all of our children are loved and wanted and cared for, why do we I have to keep suffering this kind of loss. I don't wish it on any one EVER, it's awful, so why do I have to keep doing this?? What am I being punished for, for loving too much, for wanting all of our children so much that I strain my body and have surgery to deliver them safely?! I'm defeated

Please don't take any of this offensively, I'm trying so hard to write things the way they should be written and not say things wrong, but my vision is skewed right now. Thanks for reading this too BTW, I needed to get it out and put it on paper.

RIP ... Oliver Cullen B ... RIP

>*< we love you sweet boy >*<

I also need to add, DH wants a Vesectomy, like now, he hates seeing me in pain and doesn't want to ever do this again. I'm so lost right now because we wanted that little boy, we loved him and wanted him to join our family. I was SOOO looking forward to breastfeeding him, and snuggling with him and smelling his head while he laid on me. I wanted to lay him in bed between us at night so we could talk to him, and count his toes. We all wanted him so bad. I did express to DH that I really didn't want him to have a V because I needed this baby and I knew it wasn't the right time to discuss it but I wanted him to know before he started looking for a Dr to do the surgery. I don't know if I can get pregnant and carry a baby again but I want the option to be mine not just ended because he's scared. (


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## Xerxella (Feb 6, 2008)

I'm so sorry for your loss. Rest in peace Olive Cullen. You were loved and will always be loved.

I agree you shouldn't make any decisions now. There will be time for that later. I'm so sorry this all happened. I hope writing it here is the beginning of your healing.


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## Megan73 (May 16, 2007)

Oliver Cullen








Tenk, I'm so, so sorry for your loss and the insensitive treatment at the hospital which must just make everything so much worse. Please know that everything you're feeling is so normal. It's just unfair this is happening to you.
Please come back to talk any time. We're here for you


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## M Anna (May 27, 2011)

I just feel sick for you. It's bad enough to have lost your son, but the experience at that hospital...I just want to go knock some heads. That is so, so very wrong. I am SO sorry. I wish I could take that horrible experience away and give you what you should have had. You do NOT deserve this, you are NOT being punished and the people there treated you HORRIBLY. Lord have mercy.

Please write here as often as you need. Get it out. No one here will be shocked.

And ask your DH not to make any life-altering decisions right now. This is not the time.

((((hugs))) I am so sorry and wish I could do more.

May Oliver Cullen's memory be eternal!


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## Tenk (Oct 6, 2006)

I'm so glad to have other people reassure me that this is all normal and the treatment was terrible at the hospital. I so love saying his name and I hate that we don't get to say it all day long. Thank you so much for listening!!


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## M Anna (May 27, 2011)

Oliver Cullen is a beautiful name for a beautiful baby.

((hugs))

ETA: Don't I remember you from the June DDC? I was only there for a little while as I joined late and then lost my baby at 13 weeks.


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## Justmee (Jun 6, 2005)

I couldn't read and not post. So sorry for your loss. Thinking of you and your sweet baby boy.


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

Tenk, I am in tears for you. I don't even know what to say. I am so sorry for everything you are going through. This is just heartbreaking.


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## Bubblette (Apr 26, 2009)

I am so sorry for your loss Tenk. There is no need to make any permanent decisions right away. Write all you want, and whatever you need to and be gentle with yourself.

RIP Oliver Cullen


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## Tenk (Oct 6, 2006)

I was in the June DDC and every single time i read of someone miscarriage or loss it broke my heart, but I never respond. Not because I don't care, because I do, so much, but because it seems like every time I post on someones thread when they've had a loss I always had a miscarriage too. I've had 4 miscarriages and while we were struggling with them and to get pregnant again I would join a DDC only to leave after I posted an "I'm so sorry for your loss" (or similar) on someone else's post. It kills me to not post on them, but I almost jinx myself it seems. Every time it happened it would remind me of my miscarriages and our lost souls. The pain was just too much, it's strange to cry for someone you don't even know but that's what I did..

Now I'm in no DDC and may never be again. After Kamryn passed at 38 weeks I was terrified of getting pregnant again but every person reassured me they would take care of me and the baby and as long as I could make it past that "mark" of miscarriage then things would most likely be fine. Now I have to worry about every milestone, or maybe I don't. Maybe we (or DH) won't want to have another little person because he can't bare this pain again.

He (DH) laid his head on mine and cried with me, telling me that he wished he could take my pain away. He squeezed my hand every time I cried out with pain, and hurt. He is just such an amazing person, and I am so lucky to have him. DH had to return to work today, he's a fireman for the Department of Defense and he stayed home with me for this week but returned today. I started running a fever last night and had severe body aches and pain along with chills. I was shivering so bad that I was wrapped head to toe in clothes, robe, heating pad, and my bed covers. Still freezing though. He laid close to me to allow his body heat to warm me more. I'm doing a bit better this morning, no fever to speak of. If my fever goes over 99 though, I'm supposed to go to the ER immediately because that's a definite sign of infection or problem in my uterus. It's like constant punishment, my son, my baby, my littlest love died inside me on Tuesday, he was forcefully removed from my body on Thursday, and on Saturday I have signs/symptoms of internal infection. The only logical thing I can think of is that I've done something wrong, I'm being punished for some bad behavior. Only, I can't think of anything i could have possibly done so terrible that I deserved this pain and suffering. I feel like I get on here and just ramble and nothing makes sense, just words coming out making no sense.

Lindsay, thank you for finding me and reading this awful story, and more importantly posting here because you didn't have to. I appreciate that, it means a lot to me!!!

I'm glad to have a place like this to put everything out there that I may not say IRL or to someone I know. I need this.

I can't help but feel I made the wrong choice, still. I opted for the D&E because it would be an easier recovery for ME I didn't even think about not getting to hold him and kiss his tiny little head. I wanted to see him, to kiss him, to hold him, and to tell him goodbye and I was robbed of that because of my selfish choices. I think that everyone in our lives have already dismissed this and it's because I didn't have a c-section and deliver him. If I had chosen that he wouldn't just be a distant memory that has faded with the passing days. I could just kick myself for being so selfish. Now I have nothing left of him but this baby belly. Which BTW is just as big as it was the day I went in, I still weigh 135lbs. how is that even possible?! Why haven't I lost any weight? I mean, why do I still look pregnant, I'm not pregnant.


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## music.mama.pdx (Jul 14, 2010)

I am so sad reading this. I am so sorry that your son died and I am so sorry that you had such a terrible experience. The hospital should be ashamed of themselves.

Do tell your DH, no big decisions, don't even talk about them right now. It's a lesson my partner and I had to learn the hard way. He brought up some difficult topics not long after we lost our son (also at 18 weeks) and it was terrible.

I love your son's name. He will be with you always.


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## broodymama (May 3, 2004)

Oh Tenk, I don't even have the words to say, just know that I'm crying for your loss and holding you close in my heart.







Surrounding you, Oliver Cullen and your whole family with love.


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## Tenk (Oct 6, 2006)

It's weird how every day brings on new feelings and frustrations. My neighbor called me today, she was sad and had a trembling voice. I could tell she was struggling to talk to me. Not because she didn't want to talk to me but because she was so lost for words. She's an amazing person and has her fair share of struggles as well. After talking for a bit the tears came out, flowing as fast as the words were trying. It made me feel good. People can never know what you're going through unless they've been through it themselves, it's virtually impossible. And although she hasn't had this experience she did a very good job expressing her feelings and asking questions instead of "assuming" much of anything. She asked if I'd be up for a spa day, maybe a facial and something relaxing, just the 2 of us. That made me feel pretty darn good, I really do need that. Since I've cried several times today and my head is killing me, I'm going to have a glass of wine. A much needed glass of wine. Tomorrow will be lonely, I'll have my kids (which I love) but DH will be gone for his 24 hour shift and my mom had to leave and go back to work, and my IL's had to return home to Cincinnati because life is calling and so I'm going to be alone.


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## Alphaghetti (May 26, 2005)

Tenk, I am so very sorry that you've lost your precious son. I am so sorry that you were so mistreated at the hospital, too. I think that a part of being a doctor or nurse is being sensitive and compassionate, and it's so sad that you had to endure that level of incompetence while you were in so much emotional and physical pain.

I love your friend who called and cried to you. I wish I had a friend like that when I went through this. It's amazing that people like this exist. I hope you have a wonderful spa day and you can manage to put your pain on the back burner even just for a few minutes.

I know that there are MANY (way too many) women here who have experienced your kind of loss, but if you ever want to talk about anything ever, ever ever, please message me.

I don't know you, but when this happens, it creates a bond that only we can understand...

Love and peace to baby Oliver Cullen


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## Tenk (Oct 6, 2006)

This is how my day started, again... i hate this feeling. I hate waking up sad, and confused. I'm generally so happy and my pregnancy was going SO great. For once I was at peace with my weight, my health, loved that he was a boy (we had an early nub picture) and was excited to start shopping for him, and so many things. Now I'm lost, and I wish DH could stay home with me for a few weeks, I just need him right now.

Starting the day with a weight on my chest making it hard to breath, I seem to have a clear film over my eyes preventing me from seeing certain things, and a hazy fog in my head clouding my thoughts. It's so much easier when he's home.

I really do appreciate all the kind words from everyone, I know you don't have to say them and the fact that you do means a lot to me.


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## broodymama (May 3, 2004)

Tenk. I wish your DH could be home with you too. I just wanted to stop by and check in on you, since he has a shift today.


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## M Anna (May 27, 2011)

Thinking about you today, especially while your husband is gone. It was so hard for me to wake up every morning and have the whole thing come crashing down as I remembered. I walked around in a fog for a long time. Don't expect too much of yourself right now. (((((hugs)))))


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## RoseRedHoofbeats (Feb 27, 2008)

Oh, darling, sweetheart, no. You didn't do anything wrong, you didn't lose your boy, it's not your fault. You don't deserve this. You didn't deserve to be treated like a specimen on a slab and if you want help writing a strongly worded letter, just let us know. Most of us have been right there. You deserved to see your son and get everything you needed to really have closure and I am so sorry they denied you that. You didn't make the wrong choice- a C-section would have been harder to recover from, physically, and it was your doctors who failed you and treated you wrongly, not anything you did or didn't do.

We're all here for you. I would wait on the vasectomy or any permanent decisions- you are both so raw and hurting, and even if you are sure about not having any children later, accepting that and solidfying the fact is its own mourning process. You don't have to decide anything right now.

Please get treatment from a medical professional you trust about the fever- childbed fever can be really nasty and you do not deserve to suffer.

Take care of yourself. I pray that the people around you can provide you with what you need right now to heal.

*HUGS* and all of the love in the world

~Rose


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## theboysmama (Sep 21, 2005)

Tenk- I am so very sorry for all of your losses especially oliver 

I lost my son at 17 weeks and it was absolutely devistating. I relate fully to your feelings. I am so sorry that you had such a terrible birthing experience, that was unnecesary and uncalled for. It is sad that the medical profession doesn't know more about how to guide a grieving mother through birth, etc.

I also really understand your feelings of frustration... the medical definition of a still birth is over 20 weeks making a 2nd tri loss a m/c and it just isn't the same. Not that you can compare one being worse than the other bcs all losses are terrible but they are different very very different. I choose to define Emerics birth as a still birth as he was born still into my hands, he was buried, etc. that is what works for me.

I was foggy for a long time. St Johns wart, rescue remedy and counceling helped tremendously. I also made a memory box, wrote poems, and attended SHARE (a irl support group).

I still feel judged by others, like a lepper at times. People I though were friends just dissapeared. I am so sorry that you are having to deal with all of this. Each loss just wore me down more and more and I know that feeling of failure, hopelessness, etc.

As far as the vasectomy PLEASE really fight your husband on this, neither of you are in your right mind to make such a permanant decision. My husband actually made the appointment against my will. I got pg before he had the procedure done and he decided that he really didn't want it anyways. It was his way to try and control this very uncontrollable situation.

My thoughts are with you and your family. If you want to talk more just message me.


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## Tenk (Oct 6, 2006)

I feel like I'm losing my mind, like I'm ok but I'm not ok. I cry at the drop of a hat for no reason, but I do have a reason. I had PPD after our last daughter was born, and I feel like if I show too much grief someone is going to call me depressed and tell me I need counseling or meds and I just want to grieve without someone telling me there's something wrong. I know it's too soon for it to be PPD, even my OB said that. But I also know I need to grieve.

I can find ZERO happiness in my SIL being pregnant. She has been so mean and evil to me. She called on Thanksgiving day to tell DH she was pregnant (they are NOT close at all, he really dislikes her) and he said WOW, congrats, T's pregnant too and due June 21st too (we had the same due date). I have tried to befriend her. I've sent her texts saying congrats, and thank you or what ever but she never responds. When Oliver passed last week she texted DH saying how sorry she was, but never me. On Friday she texted him asking him to show off pics of her great house to their mom and dad (we're here helping us with big kids while we were at the hospital) and I responded to the texts for him.

HER: How's it going? Can you show mom and dad this picture of our house, the walls up and and everything. How exciting!!!

ME: We just lost our son and my wife is in terrible pain, but sure I'll show them.

HER: We keep thinking of you guys, maybe T can get some relief soon.

ME: If you keep thinking about us then MAYBE you can wait and show them the pictures of your house when they come home in 2 days?!

No response from her. I'm not jealous of my BFF, she's due 2 days before Oliver was. I'm not jealous of my neighbor or my hair dresser (both pregnant) but her and I don't think it's jealousy. She was so mad that I was pregnant with her and so nasty, and we knew she didn't think we should have more kids because she commented in April (I posted a joke April fools pregnancy test) that how dare I pretend to be pregnant and put our family in an awkward position where they have to pretend to be happy for us. So, we knew she didn't want us to have more kids. I *KNOW* she is relishing in the fact that our son is dead, not sorrowful or sad for us but glad that she doesn't have to share the spot light (even though we live states apart). I would never wish anything bad on her or anyone else so I don't mean that. I just hate that I feel like she has sort of stolen this from me. She wished it on me. Ridiculous, I know, I'm losing my mind.


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## namaste_mom (Oct 21, 2005)

Tenk,
I think it is perfectly normal for your emotions to be all over the place. It has been 4 years for me and I still cry very easily. I am so sorry that you were treated cruelly at the hospital. That should never happen. I urge you just to take one moment at a time as you make your way through the day. I hope that eventually you can find some peace.







Oliver Cullen


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## M Anna (May 27, 2011)

My SIL is pregnant too. She called DH after we found out our little boy was gone but I never heard from her. She's due a few weeks before I was. I never heard from her after we lost our other little boy either. She's not as mean and insensitive as your SIL, but I do know the feeling of not wanting anything to do with her. I feel like I never, ever want to see her baby. Thankfully we live in different states. ((((hugs))))

I have had depression for years and years (most of my life) and under normal circumstances my medication does just fine at giving me a normal life. I always had a tendency to PPD anyway, but after I lost my boys I suffered even more. The hormone drop happens whether your baby lives or not, and if not, then you don't have a living baby to brighten your days. Regular depression, PPD and grief get so tangled up for me that it's hard to keep functioning. I'm doing a little better now and I hope you will soon too (but it just hasn't been very long at all so don't beat yourself up.) If it helps, by all means keep posting here. That's what it's for.


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## Tenk (Oct 6, 2006)

SIL lives in OH and we live in NC so we only have to see her about once a year (thank goodness!) and this Christmas she avoided us like the plague. I have to wonder though, do they think we are going to call and congratulate them when they find out their baby is a girl *** I saw the nub shot picture from her 13 week ultrasound and I'm almost positive it's a girl but no one will listen to me and they keep saying it's a boy, no one believed Oliver was boy after his nub photo even though I told them all I was positive he was a boy based on that too *** so we aren't going to call them. I have lots of girl things with tags because I paid very little for them and was going to resell them. Well, that's what I'll be sending her, those clothes, nothing more when they have her shower, if we even get an invite (and we might not, if someone is kind enough to view it as insensitive). Wanted to share this with you all, it makes me sad but it means a lot to me.






long day today, walking through Kroger I felt like I couldn't remember where things were and I just wanted to sit in the floor and cry and beg someone to hold me and tell me he wasn't gone and he was coming back and all was ok. I guess I was in the store for a very long time, DH, B & L were in the car and he was pretty upset at my lack of time management when i came out of the store. I promise I tried to go fast, I just couldn't make myself do it.


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## Kellyh_01 (Apr 24, 2006)

Everything you are feeling and sharing is completely normal. None of us would judge or criticize you for your thoughts and feelings. It's good that you have a safe place here to express them. I am so sorry that you have to go through the loss of your precious baby boy. It's a long, rough road, and it's not fair that you loved and wanted your baby so much yet he's gone. I wish I could give you a real-life hug and cry with you.


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## Tenk (Oct 6, 2006)

So it's been more than a week since I posted here, thought I'd update from here.

Last week on Friday, Saturday, & Sunday I was feeling pretty good. Maybe because my big kids were home during the day and I wasn't alone. And DH was home on Friday and Sunday. So Sunday night we decided to have sex, it's a very natural part of grieving and reconnecting and loving each other. I was 12 days post surgery, and no longer bleeding (and the Dr's, and nurses, and all the paperwork from the hospital, AND every single website that I looked at said 14 days to wait with nothing in the vagina) so I thought 12 is close to 14, I feel ok down there, and I'm not bleeding. It was uncomfortable a few times but felt nice 90% of the time (sorry TMI I know) but I woke about 3am with gushing brown/black bleeding, very thick, gross bleeding. I called the Dr Monday morning and she (my regular OB, and she did not do my surgery, nor does she do this particular procedure, nor does anyone at her office) said I was supposed to wait 4 weeks and not 2 weeks and I could have gotten an infection from having sex. Since Sunday I've had this same experience, brown/black bleeding off and on, mostly when I'm sitting on the toilet and lots of cramping and lower back pain. So today is my post op check up, it's been 2 weeks  and they should have the results of Oliver's genetic testing. I also have to have an ultrasound to see if there's any retained tissue since I'm still having this weird random gross bleeding. If there's anything retained in there, I have to have a D&C    I am SO SO hoping this is not the case, after everything that's gone on, I would be miserable having to go through more. I'm some what torn though, if he had a genetic problem that wasn't compatible with life then that could have been the cause of his death, but if he didn't then it's more likely from cord compression and Kamryn died from cord entanglement.

We are trying several things to help us move forward with our lives too. Unfortunately for me, while I was feeling "good" I told DH we needed to discuss something, and he responded with "you mean if we're going to have another kid or not?" and I said, well yes. He said if we talk about it, someone is only going to get hurt (meaning me) and I don't want to do that now. So I was back to being sad on Monday from the bleeding and then from him telling me that's how our fertility ends, with another stillborn baby  In reality I know it was too early to discuss this, but I felt like I was ok talking about it. Clearly I was not, it made me sad. I don't know if I want to try again, maybe I do, maybe I don't, but I definitely didn't want to hear NO. He's been so caring, and helpful, and supportive, and loving, and just amazing through all of this but that hurt my feelings.


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## Megan73 (May 16, 2007)




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## M Anna (May 27, 2011)

(((((hugs))))) You wouldn't have had the bleeding from an infection (if you caught one, which doesn't sound very likely) that soon after having sex. In all likelihood it was the contractions of the uterus from orgasm that encouraged the blood - and it was leftover blood that didn't escape before your cervix closed however many days after the D&C. Now, why it has gone on for several more days with cramping is unclear, but you're having an appointment today so I hope they find out it's really nothing. Hopefully there was nothing retained and you won't need another D&C. (((hugs))) [And don't let them make you feel guilty for not waiting 4 weeks. Some doctors say 2, some say 4, some say 6 (!) and if you've stopped bleeding then the likelihood of getting an infection are really small.]

It's so hard to have those conversations when your grief is so fresh. I do know how much it hurts to hear that but you're both still healing emotionally and this subject should not be considered closed for good. Agree to table it for now and revisit it later. In the meantime take a deep breath and try not to think about the future. I know, impossible, but try anyway. It hasn't been very long at all, just over 2 weeks, and it may not be the best time (even though it can bring some comfort in the present to think about something positive for the future).

I hope your appointment goes well today and you have the results explained well to you. KUP.


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## thecoffeebean (Apr 11, 2011)

I'm sorry for your recent loss. Regarding the D&C for retained tissue, my friend was supposed to have a D&C for the exact same thing. She asked if there were ANY other options, and they said "Sure!" and gave her cytotec to help her pass the tissue. She passed it that day without incident. I don't know if that's something you'd consider, but it's worth a try. The kicker was that they didn't even charge her for the cytotec- apparently the pills cost $0.03 each or something crazy like that. And way less invasive than surgery. Let us know how your appt goes.


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## Tenk (Oct 6, 2006)

So I got the news yesterday. No retained placenta, but my uterus is so "worn out" that it still hasn't contracted down to expel all the contents and is full of clots, big clots. So I was given Cytotec and I'm fine with taking it since I'm not pregnant. Did the 1st does last night, had some damn awful cramps and passed some clots, but i can't imagine that's all that's in there and I'm expecting more to come out.

Also, the Dr. that I see, is the one that delivered B and saw my uterine rupture and did my 1st c-section. She did not deliver baby L but her partner did and it was at 33.5 weeks. So she referenced L coming early and how we might have lost her if they hadn't gotten her out in time. And then she said, while now wasn't the right time to discuss this, she wants us to consider permanent contraception because she thinks we could be risking MY life if we have another baby. This makes me SO sad. I do understand her point but I don't feel like my body is ready to give up. I don't believe Oliver died because of my body (we didn't get his results yet) and it was something else. But DH was there and she was explaining all this time him and now he thinks I'm being selfish for not "getting it" and why we shouldn't have another baby. I don't want to end my fertility on this. I don't want to replace Kamryn or Oliver but I DO want another little one, I thought we were supposed to have 6 living children, I love my children and this makes me sad.


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## M Anna (May 27, 2011)

I'm glad it's only clots and nothing more serious, and that cytotec will almost certainly be enough to get rid of them.

Regarding what the doctor said, I would not take what ONE doctor told you as gospel truth. Unfortunately, your DH was there and did hear it all and it rather in line with his thinking right now so he's accepting of it. I wouldn't even argue about it right now because it's a moot point - you're not ready physically or otherwise to ttc yet. Concentrate on taking care of your body physically right now and leave the other discussion for later.

I can understand how sad that makes you. I really thought we'd have six living children too and we still have five with two in heaven. I'm hoping for this month but not much. Big ((((hugs))))).


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## Tenk (Oct 6, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M Anna*
> 
> I'm glad it's only clots and nothing more serious, and that cytotec will almost certainly be enough to get rid of them.
> 
> ...


You seem to always have the answer, to be the voice of reason. Really, what an amazing person you are, thank you!!!

I know, now is NOT the right time to make the decision, or physically/emotionally try anything and honestly with everything that's coming out/going on, I have about a zero % chance of conceiving anyway. Not that I want to DTD again anyway, too gross, and painful at this point. He did want us to use NFP, which I'm fine with and I'm very aware of my body as well. Part of me wonders if maybe the reason HE wanted to use this method is because he knows there is room for error and that would make it UNplanned, if that makes sense. Like when I got pregnant with Oliver, we weren't trying but we weren't being careful at all so even though he didn't want to talk about having another baby he KNEW I was going to get pregnant. I hope, when the time comes, we are able to make the decision that is best for both of us. Thanks again for the quick response and always knowing what to say!!


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## M Anna (May 27, 2011)

*blush*

Thank you. I hope that given enough time this is something that evolves naturally between the two of you.


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## lollie2357 (Feb 18, 2008)

Oh, I've just read this thread, and it's heartbreaking. I'm so sorry for all that you've been through. I had a d&c with my 14 week loss, because I was naive and didn't know I had any other options. I carried around a lot of anger and resentment that I didn't get to see my baby for a long time - so I totally get that. I have [mostly] made peace with that now over a year later - but I may still one day write a letter to the clinic - if I ever get to the point I can write it without being angry again.

I still sometimes think I might get him back too. It is such a terrible realization. I just wanted to add to MAnna's good advice, remember that your husband is grieving too. Men grieve so differently than we do, and like Milkshake has said, sometimes they try to protect us in their grief. So you want hope for the future, he wants to prevent you from hurting - but you're both grieving. I don't know how grief resolves, or when will be a good time to try to get him to see it another way - but it helps when you can see his actions as grief, too.

I'm think of you. Memory eternal, Oliver!


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## M Anna (May 27, 2011)

That's right, my husband broke down and cried (rare) while I was in hard labor the last hour with Andrew. He said he couldn't do this ever again, he couldn't stand to watch me suffer. He really didn't want to try again for a few days after but gradually turned around. Everyone is different, but husbands are generally similar in this respect.

More (((((((hugs)))))))


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## Beccadoula (Jan 7, 2008)

I have not read everyone's posts here - but I think your letter here needs to go as is to the hospital admin. office. They need to know what kind of service and treatment they are providing and how it is impacting people. Also, as a doula I would recommend that you make arrangements for a private memorial service...just for your own broken heart to say good bye and to honor the life of your little one. Maybe make a little memory box of your pregnancy...special clothes you had picked out for him? And above all - please find a grief counselor in your area - don't try to face this alone. Find someone who can affirm you and encourage you. Your experience was not what it should have been. My mother-in-law had a still-born and she still talks about how honoring the doctor and nurses were. You should have been encouraged to hold him, to cry over him, to name him and to say good bye. You're not being silly to have wanted those things, they are all healthy and normal parts of loss. You had a trauma and you deserve to be heard and taken seriously. Bless you and may you soon find healing for this heartbreak.


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## Beccadoula (Jan 7, 2008)

Also, you might want to contact http://solaceformothers.org/ - this group really is all about birth trauma and finding healing and hope...really good.


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## MovnMama (Jul 3, 2009)

Tenk, I just happened over here and couldn't read without posting. (I'm from yor DDC too). I'm so upset to hear how awful they were to you at the hospital. And please just know that you are not the reason this happened. Things happen all the time, and despite what medical practitioners want us (clients) to think, they do not always have the reason or the answer.

Rest in peace Oliver Cullen. I hope you and your family regain your health and wellness soon.


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## Tenk (Oct 6, 2006)

Thank you ladies, all of you! for the advice, the support, and just for caring.

Yesterday we had to de-clutter our house. We are putting it on the market tomorrow and the photos needed to be nice, clutter free for staging. Lots of things went into storage, baby clothes that I'm selling, our infant car seat (and lots and lots of things we don't use daily) and DH made several comments about selling all the "things" for a baby. I didn't say anything to him about it and just let him keep making the comments. We did agree that we will use NFP until we have moved to prevent and we can revisit possibly having another baby then. I'm ok with that. I did finally say to him, last evening after we were done with all the moving of stuff (my mom and dad came to help pack/remove/store everything for us) and I told him I was very upset by all his comments of "lets get rid of all things baby" he apologized for it and we moved on.

I know that my 1 OB said it was unsafe to have another, but no one other person has made that comment, so I really feel like she's being "overlly cautious" and I honestly in my heart do not believe it to be unsafe. And, I was planning on having my tubes tied after Oliver was born, if we can have 1 more baby I would be MORE than happy to get my tubes tied and be done with my fertility. That's what I had resigned myself to, 1 more baby, having 6 kids. Not ending it with having my 2nd stillborn baby. I hope that we can come to an agreement after we have healed and moved from here.

Maybe I will send my original post into the hospital admin and let them read it. I wrote that when I was emotionally raw and it might be the perfect thing for them to read/see.

On a different note, I passed big clots on Thursday night, after my appointment and today I'm not even spotting any more. Maybe this is finally over and on Wednesday I'll get good news instead of bad news.


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## Tenk (Oct 6, 2006)

I sent my original post into the customer complaint dept at UNC. I hope that is what makes the difference.


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## M Anna (May 27, 2011)

I hope you get good news tomorrow and that your letter does some good!


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## Tenk (Oct 6, 2006)

I forgot to update. I got an apology letter from them. It addressed each department specifically, Dr so and so said she was sorry and would try to work on blah, and Nurse so and so said she didn't mean to have shitty bed side manner and head of dept so and so will work on xyz with the nursing staff on how to handle cases of loss such as yours. It's in the trash and meant nothing to me.

sorry to leave you hanging (for those of you reading).


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## theboysmama (Sep 21, 2005)

I actually think it is nice that they responded. I know that it can't make things better and it can't change the situation but it souns like it wasn't just a form letter like: To whom it may concern we received your form and it will be sent to the appropriate department.

You might want to save the letter (if it isn't to late). I liked putting anything and everything that had anything to do with my babies in a memory box. I am really sorry for the treatment you received and am glad they were willing to acknowledge their faults. Hang in there mama. Oh I came across your story on FOLFOH and really enjoyed reading your story in detail. I am thinking of you and your family especially your sweet babies in heaven.


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## M Anna (May 27, 2011)

Tenk, I'm glad at least they sent a letter back. Like nicole said, it wasn't a form letter. I hope at least some changes are made for the better as a result of it. Of course, no letter, no matter how abject, can change what happened. I'm sorry.

((hugs))


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