# Do you expect reciprocation from your dd/ds's friends?



## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

If you let your dd or ds invite friends over, have sleepovers, etc....do you expect the friends' families to eventually show some kind of reciprocation?

We let our 10yo dd invite friends over on a regular basis. She has sleepovers at least once every few weeks. When she found a best friend, we had her over almost every weekend. But so far, in 5 years, only one friend has reciprocated (invited her to the fair once), besides the once a year b-day parties.

In my frustration I told dd last year that if she wanted to continue having sleepovers, her friends would need to reciprocate in some way or another. Anything. Even if it was an occasional trip to the dollar theater, to their house for a quick visit, a walk downtown or to the beach, ANYTHING to show that she is appreciated in return. But when I realized this was causing her stress (since it's out of her control and her friends were just giving her excuses) I eased up and told her to forget about it and that she could invite whomever she wanted whenever she wanted. I just want her to be happy....But I don't want her to be used.

I'm feeling the frustration still, and now dd is too. Her best friend told her over the past 2 years that she wasn't allowed to invite friends over because her house was too messy. Even her Mom told me that (and dd and I have both told her that we don't care how clean her house is), but then followed it up with a (sometime in the future) invitation for dd to visit. It never happened, and she says it almost every time. But recently dd heard her invite another girl over and found out that they go over to each other's houses all the time.







: Dd was hurt and no longer wants to be friends with her.

Am I expecting too much? I have always thought of friendship as a two-way street, not all give or take, and that you make each other feel wanted and loved, not used. I'm afraid I've passed this value on to dd. I'm also afraid this might be an outdated expectation in these busy times (though we make time).

If they reciprocated in some way then it wouldn't be an issue. But how to relay that expectation without stressing out dd while still teaching her how to gain healthy friendships?

I would love to hear everyone's thoughts on this because this is something that we've been struggling with for a few years now.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

No. Never. I would rather my children be home, and I would rather kids come here. When my oldest was home (he is at college), we were pretty much party central and that is how I liked it. I would rather have them all here as I trust my parenting over others.







: It's true, and I aint gonna lie.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Yes, good point and ITA 100%. That's the approach we've taken. But has your ds ever felt used because of it? Maybe it's a girl thing? I don't know...

When I was growing up we would always want to hang out at each other's houses.....? But then again I remember my best friend's house wasn't the best influence on me.


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## Iris' Mom (Aug 3, 2007)

Honestly, I wish DD and friends would hang out here. DD says her friends don't like to come b/c DS1 is 6 and pesters them. Could it be there is some reason her friends don't want to hang out at their house? It could be any number of things, from abuse to you have the Wii. Their parents may fight, they may have annoying younger siblings, their house might be messy, they may really trust and respect you as an adult, etc., etc. Are their any other signs that her friends are using her? Do they have frequent fights? Do you have the sense that they are hosting other events and excluding your daughter? Have you seen them be mean to her? Do they seem to be excluding her from things even though she is right there? If not, there's a pretty good chance they are paying her the ultimate compliment of having the coolest house/family.


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## porque (Oct 3, 2007)

I don't think it is always necessary to reciprocate. And I really hope people don't always expect me to reciprocate either. Sometimes I can and am happy to, and other times things are too hectic and I can't.


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## NaomiLorelie (Sep 2, 2004)

This strikes a cord as I still remember way too avidly my own teenage-hood. My parents were neglectful and abusive. Our home was messy and embarrassing. It was humiliating when my friends' parents wanted me to reciprocate. My father was likely to go on a rampage in front of my friends. I couldn't get $5 to pay for my own food when I was able to go out very infrequently. Obviously (or hopefully) this happens fairly infrequently. Just something to keep in mind. I never would have openly admitted any of this as a teen.


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## Naless (Apr 9, 2007)

If your daughter is fine with the situation then I say leave it alone.

By not allowing her to have friends over because the don't reciprocate isn't fair since the other children aren't in control of their households, it may not be their choice if they can reciprocate.

I agree you need to teach your not to be taken advantage of but you may be creating a problem where their was none. Also you may look at in from the point of view that you are teaching your DD to only do things in return for something or to only do things for those you will do something for you which isn't a friendship either.


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## Smokering (Sep 5, 2007)

Hmm. When I was youngish (maybe 7-13, all up), I went over to my best friend's house about ten times more often than she came to mine.

I'm not entirely sure why--we both had huge, messy families, slipshod meals, occasionally explosive/embarrassing fathers... She lived on a few farms, which gave us interesting territories to explore, but I can't exactly pinpoint the reason it was always her house, not mine. It was just more... psychologically comfortable at her house! I usually visited on Sundays after church, and they'd get hot bread on the way home to eat, whereas my family was never organised enough to have decent food on Sundays. And her father drove an ice cream truck for a few years, so there was the possibility he'd give us a broken Moritz.







But... yeah, I don't know.

It wasn't just with her, either; I always preferred to go to my friends' houses than have them come to mine, and I suspect they felt the same way. Maybe ours was just a scary household!

In other words, while among adults it would be a serious breach of etiquette to have permanently one-sided invitations, kids don't necessarily think of it that way. There are certain atmospheres that just work, and certain atmospheres that don't. Plus, it really can be embarrassing for kids to invite people over to messy homes... oh, the memories!

Of course, if you have a giant heated pool in the backyard, a perpetually-simmering barbeque and cans upon cans of Sprite in the fridge, it's possible your daughter is being used.


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## enkmom (Aug 30, 2004)

We have always had an open house policy. My daughter always entertained here, my son prefers to be entertained at someone else's house. My daughter had one friend who had her over once in four years. My daughter says that their house was full of antiques, and C's mom was on everyone's case about being careful, don't spill, etc.

My son thinks our house is "boring", and his gang tends to hang out exclusively at one boy's house. I reciprocate by sending along pizza money or a 12 pack of soda, but the other boy's parents assure me that it is not necessary.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Thanks for all the insight.

I'm glad I finally asked this question because I've always had a nagging feeling that I might be making an issue out of nothing. I guess when you have kids always coming over, and you're feeding them, entertaining them, sometimes picking them up and dropping them off, and literally taking care of them, you start thinking.....where are their parents and why aren't they sharing the brunt? But then your posts remind me that I would much rather our household be the one that everyone wants to hang out at (we don't have a Wii or pool btw







). Issue solved. Hopefully I didn't already blow it by putting all this into dd's mind.

The only issue left is dd's best friend. Dd feels used by her because she is an on again off again friend....sometimes she's nice at school and sometimes she ignores her....and since we started teaching her how to surf she seems to be more into that than their friendship so....add that to the lie and dd is hurt. I think she has reason.


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## MillingNome (Nov 18, 2005)

To answer: No.

There are too many reasons I can think of that seem good when a kid does not prefer people over to their house. I tend to trust them on the fact that whatever it is, they know their house better than me.

I'll get flamed for saying this but...

Girls can really suck







: What's the name of that book... somthing like Queen Bees and Wanna-bees? I've not read it but seen it mentioned here before. Suppose to be a good book somewhat related. Maybe check it out (maybe I should too







).


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## smillerhouse (Aug 5, 2006)

I try to go for some sort of reciprication. I think it is healthy to model this. It seems like it can work out but in generral we do a whole lot more of the doing-taking kids places,doing fun youth oriented stuff and I homeschool all the tiem and my plate is more than full and I really donot want to do thsi much often. I do though to channel my very active daughter's energy.My daughter is extrely active and loves action and most places jsut are not set up to deal with that so within limits I let her take kids along. I am a planner and know fun stufff that is age appropriate. Like for Halloween, she is doinga haunted hay maze,a haunted house and goign to a thme park. I am arraging this and will hav eother kids along. I will only let her go over to others if I am sure abouat the supervison-often it is not what I am comfortable with. My dd is quite quirky and I have had bad experinces of her being places that are not set up to deal with her. So thia weekend she has a sleepover for her volelyball team and I am not letting her go. She needs the family time and the down time. She actually has a freind where the parents do drive her and her freind places and I encourage this. She ahs not wanted to have kids over ,mainly becasue of my rules and limits but she has redoen her room . Mainlhy it is a balnce between family and other stuff. Family tiem is a very strong value of ours and only going over to someone else's place does not work for me. Fifty fity is an ideal I like to strive for. Mianly, I do not want to do more thanmy share,wehich I tend to do becaseu I am so youth oritended. Sallie


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## AllisonR (May 5, 2006)

My 2 cents - kids have a feeler for what's up - where it is OK to be, and where it isn't. I remember as a young girl I had two friends, and we always spent the night at girl X's house. Maybe once a year at my house, once at the other girls house, but mostly at X's house. My house looked and appreared Ok from an adult standpoint, but my dad was a functioning alcoholic (not a dancing, foolish loud drunk), so easy to pick up on as a kid, but maybe hard as another adult. The second girl, her mom was an overpowering, in-you-face, nosy sort, and we didn't have the breathing room and privacy to be girls. Girl X's house, well, that was just fine. I don't think the three of us EVER talked about it, or even recognised half of it at the time, it is just what we went with. So that's what we got used to, and liked, and so we spent the night at X's house. None of the 3 of us felt used. But we were not adults, we were not considering turns, or who's mom had cooked dinner for the 10th time.....


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## pumpkin (Apr 8, 2003)

Obviously there may be issues with a particular friend and a potentially unbalanced friendship, but I know from my childhood that there can be a very good reason friends don't get invited over very often. The few times I had friends over it never went well. My homelife looked perfect to outsiders, but the reality was not good. Thankfully my parents kept things in check when there were people around, so all my friends were exposed to was some really loud and long yelling (which is absolutely mortifying as a 10 year old at 3am during a sleepover), but that was an easy day at my house. I'm still grateful to the families that gave me a sanctuary and let me hang out with them, even if they didn't realize at the time that it was more than just that I didn't reciprocate very often.


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## KBecks (Jan 3, 2007)

I don't have teens, but I would not expect reciprocation. Other families may have limitations that prevent them from hosting, and if they don't want to host, then I don't want my child over there.

I think it's wonderful that you host your children's friends, and if its getting to be too much work then consider scaling back so you don't feel you're overworking yourself as a host family. But I wouldn't have any expectations as to what the others need to do in return.

I would expect guest kids to bring money if we were doing something like a movie, etc. But that's about it. And I won't mind paying for guest kids meals and entertainment sometimes if we go out.

As for whether your child is being used, your daughter needs to sort through those feelings. I'd pay attention to how the guests act when they are around. Are they genuinely nice to your daughter? You should be able to tell if a child cares about your daughter or just the perks. Err on the side of assuming the kids that are friendly are doing it because they like your daughter. Sometimes teens are on and off, she'll have to work through evaluating if her friend is fickle, has a short attention span, is more of a social butterfly, or if she's outright trying to reject your daughter.

EATA: You may want to encourage your daughter to get to know more girls and not emphasize the "best friend" thing. I think it's great to have a few close friends to bond with.

Good luck!


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Thanks Mamas.


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## momof2boys1girl (Nov 7, 2006)

while I dont expect it I do appreciate it. I get tired of being the house where the kids are always at. But then I think at least I know what they are doing and who they are hanging out with. It would be nice tho to get a night to yourself like these other parents do when you are always allowing there kids to sleep at your house.


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## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momof2boys1girl* 
while I dont expect it I do appreciate it. I get tired of being the house where the kids are always at. But then I think at least I know what they are doing and who they are hanging out with. It would be nice tho to get a night to yourself like these other parents do when you are always allowing there kids to sleep at your house.

I have those feelings too. Usually kids want to play here. I like having kids come but there are times when I think it would be nice to be the one sending my kids.

What also gets complicated is that some of my kids' friends come from larger families. So even if one or two come to my house, there are still more at home. So while the other parents load may be lighter, they are not spending child-free time









I would love for all of my kids to have sleepovers on the same night.


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## spero (Apr 22, 2003)

No, but my POV comes as being the one who typically doesn't reciprocate.







:

I'm not a good hostess. I don't particularly like having people over, unless I am SUPER comfortable with them. I get uptight and uncomfortable when we have guests in the house. I'm not sure why, exactly - but I can point to tons of personal space issues and baggage.

Added to that is DH, who has no sense of decorum and will holler at the kids, pick fights with me, and generally embarass everyone present - despite a perfect stranger being in the house.

Slightly OT: I was once at my best friend's house (where I spent a lot of time as a kid) and she & her older sister got into an argument over who had to to the dinner dishes. Her dad (a seemingly meek little guy who hid a WICKED temper) went ballistic and beat them both with his belt. They were screaming hysterically in the kitchen, and I was cowering in the living room, scared to death he'd come after me just for being there.

I've often wondered how her mom felt about that incident, and about me witnessing it. I'd been there many times when the dad had lost his temper and threatened the kids, and I knew they got hit with a belt as punishment, but that was the only time I actually witnessed it.


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## Canadianmommax3 (Mar 6, 2006)

just another side, my son goes to his friends house a lot more than they come here. Sleepovers on the weekends i usually have to say no, because i usually work 6-2 so i am up at 5 am, and my dh drives me to work.


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## expecting-joy (Sep 15, 2007)

My sister and I never wanted friends over at our house. I'm glad we still got invitations elsewhere. My parents were a little crazy, although they didn't know it. I think it's great that your dd feels comfortable bringing her friends over. That means you're doing a great job as a parent!

As for the other friend thing. I don't know. It's not much you can control. She may have just felt really uncomfortable because it's so nice at your house and her house isn't the same. Trust your dd's instincts. If she still wants this girl to come over, great. But she should probably confront her about inviting the other girl over and not her. Ask her if there's some reason she didn't invite her (?). I don't know.

I'm not looking forward to dealing with my dd's teenage friends (we have a little while).

_____

Me







: Erin (3½)







Sara







DH


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## KaraBoo (Nov 22, 2001)

no. I don't expect reciprocation. I don't want to a "tit for tat" friend.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Not at all. I'm sick to death of ds1 getting invited for sleepovers every single Friday and Saturday. I wish his friends would spend the night here more often than they do. Of course, in our case, it's dh who is the stumbling block - he doesn't want other people in the house that much, so he only allows a small number of sleepovers.

I don't think about it in terms of reciprocity at all. DS1 has much younger siblings and I'm sure his friends don't always want to be woken up by little kids. Sometimes, he'd rather be at their house. I know that my best friend spent pretty much every weekend at my house for all of grades 6 & 7...and I think I spent the night at their house three times. We liked it that way.

With respect to the girl in the OP, who says she has too messy a house - is it possible that the other girl _also_ has a messy house, so the mom and daughter aren't as bothered by thinking they look bad? You never really know what's going on.

Bottom line - if ds1 feels that a friend is using him, then I question why he'd want to be friends with that person. As far as sleepovers...maybe the other girls just feel very comfortable in your home?


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Thanks Mamas. I appreciate everyone's input. I've talked with dd about it. I told her that we should trust her friends reasons. If they aren't comfortable inviting her over then we need to trust that. Someone here pointed out that why would we want her to be there if she's not wanted there.....good point. I don't want to put her in a bad situation just because it's "fair". Maybe I got spoiled by a previous friendship she had when she was younger. We took turns without even mentioning it. I think we both saw it as a respect of one another's family.

Anyway, dd was a little disappointed (she loves going over to friends' houses) but I think it's clicking.

I agree friendship is not materialistically tit-for-tat but when you're the friend who is doing all the inviting it starts feeling one-sided. If the friendships are strong and she is treated well in school by them then it's not an issue at all. I love that they love coming over. But that hasn't been dd's case. Some friends were only friends because of an upcoming sleepover, then when the sleepover was over, or if they didn't get invited this time, they wouldn't be so friendly to her anymore until the next time. Yes, girls can suck sometimes. Plus when we started taking her best friend to the beach to learn to surf, everyone wanted to be her friend.







So now we just go surf as a family and when friends come over they just play around here. (and this is where her best friend stopped being so friendly to her) I think we made a mistake in doing that. Dd wanted a friend to surf with so we went all out to teach her, but then she was only being nice to dd when she came over to surf...

As for the best friend thing, I agree that she should just focus on friends instead of needing "a best friend". But she really wants a best friend, someone who will always be there no matter what. She's just not finding it at her school. I told her she might not find her until she goes to intermediate or high school...









Thanks again everyone.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

My ds used to always go to his friends' houses and only rarely would they come to mine. I was really sad by this. I always wanted to be the house where all the other kids hung out. So, I guess I used to be the parent that didn't reciprocate but only because my ds wanted to stay somewhere else rather than have kids here. Now, his friends do stay here a lot and I love it! My ds is home and safe. I get to know his friends better and sometimes they even clean my house.









Oh, forgot to say that I do not expect reciprocation in any of my relationships. I do what I do because I want to, not because I expect someone to do something back for me.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MarineWife* 
Snip somewhere else rather than have kids here. Now, his friends do stay here a lot and I love it! My ds is home and safe. I get to know his friends better and sometimes they even clean my house.









lol One of my son's friends used to love to hang out in the kitchen with me, and after a bit, she took to cleaning out my fridge. It was great.







She's a sophomore away at uni now, and gosh, I miss her.







She is also a lovely person, and I always enjoyed her sense of houmor...but a teen who cleans out refridgerators is an absolute keeper.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom* 
lol One of my son's friends used to love to hang out in the kitchen with me, and after a bit, she took to cleaning out my fridge. It was great.







She's a sophomore away at uni now, and gosh, I miss her.







She is also a lovely person, and I always enjoyed her sense of houmor...but a teen who cleans out refridgerators is an absolute keeper.









That's definitely a keeper!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom* 
She's a sophomore away at uni now, and gosh, I miss her.









Yeah, the main kid who cleans up my playroom so he can have space to hang out is going to boot camp soon.







He's such a sweet kid and funny, too. I just hope he stays safe.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MarineWife* 
Yeah, the main kid who cleans up my playroom so he can have space to hang out is going to boot camp soon.







He's such a sweet kid and funny, too. I just hope he stays safe.


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## canadianchick (May 18, 2005)

Yup but only if I have checked them out and know that they are safe.


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## operamommy (Nov 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mother_sunshine* 

As for the best friend thing, I agree that she should just focus on friends instead of needing "a best friend". But she really wants a best friend, someone who will always be there no matter what. She's just not finding it at her school. I told her she might not find her until she goes to intermediate or high school...









Thanks again everyone.









I think 10 is rather young to find a best friend who's there no matter what. My dd is 9, and she can't even commit to feeding the cats every morning.







Not to say that lifelong friendships can't form at that age, 'cause sometimes they do, but I just think the "best friend" expectations are a bit high. Would your dd be ok with having a "good friend?"

On the reciprocation issue, my parents were abusive and I spent a lot of time at friends' houses. I never reciprocated because 1) I knew better than to ask and 2) I didn't want my friends to know what my homelife was like. I still am grateful for the blessing my friends and their parents were for me growing up.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)




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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I, too, think it's a bit too much to expect a bff at this point. I've never had a best friend who was always there. At any given time I may have had a best friend but not one who stuck with me through all time. That's ok. I can still appreciate the friendships I had and the new ones I make.


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## ABrez (Apr 4, 2007)

The kids ALWAYS are at my house. In fact, I plan my weekend dinners knowing that DS's best friend will be there Friday and Saturday night. I even started stocking the kind of food DS's friends like. They all call me Mom or Mama.

I like it that way. I'd like to think I create a welcoming environment. Although they may just want to hang out because I have a five pound tub of cookie dough in my fridge that they are allowed to take spoonfuls out of.







(I love Sam's Club)


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## menudo (May 21, 2002)

Ugh. I am on the otehr end of this now. We used to let kids at our house when the kids were smaller but with some of them having parents with issues and having a small home with 2 dogs and a small yard with a pair of crappy neighbors, we pretty much have a no kids over rule. It sucks.

6yo DS has made alot of friends and I explained to each parent we will gladly take them out to play but there is nowhere to play in the house (DS is a rough and tumble kid as are his friends) and the dogs go nuts. As do the neighbors, one who got violent once already, he just threatens the kids (even though he has 3 boys of his own!!) I tell them the truth yet it feels I am making excuses. DH is iffy about sleepovers b/c how backwards we have seen some parents be. He has a paranoia we'd be blamed for god knows what. DD turned 10yo and we had a sleepover (but cousins only) at my sisters instead. We told her if and when we ever move, this will change!

It makes me so sad cause my house was where all the sleepovers occured growing up!

Yet, one boys Mom already commented ot DH about recipricating! I have tried but once she told me he had to be home in 2 hours. When I go thim hoem she said she meant by 4pm (it was NOON!) and I had already made otehr plans. The second time he got in trouble and couldn't come. DS doesn't like the boys parents tho...


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## kerikadi (Nov 22, 2001)

Not at all. I also agree that I would rather the kids be here where I know what is going on.
Keep in mind that not all teenagers have good relationships with their parents and a welcoming, friendly home.
A lot of kids have houses they are ashamed of, parents that fight and uncomfortable settings in general. Maybe these kids aren't proud of their homes, maybe their parents fight or there is tension. As a child I ALWAYS wanted to stay at friends houses but never wanted them at my house. Generally, there is a reason behind it.


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mother_sunshine* 
But so far, in 5 years, only one friend has reciprocated (invited her to the fair once), besides the once a year b-day parties.

...

But recently dd heard her invite another girl over and found out that they go over to each other's houses all the time.







: Dd was hurt and no longer wants to be friends with her.


This would really bother me. Dd is only 7, but she has a friend like this, and obviously at that age it's the parents not doing the inviting, but they never do. And I know (from others too) that dd is fine when out, so it's not like she's a brat.


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## Satori (Jan 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mother_sunshine* 
I'm feeling the frustration still, and now dd is too. Her best friend told her over the past 2 years that she wasn't allowed to invite friends over because her house was too messy. Even her Mom told me that (and dd and I have both told her that we don't care how clean her house is), but then followed it up with a (sometime in the future) invitation for dd to visit. It never happened, and she says it almost every time. But recently dd heard her invite another girl over and found out that they go over to each other's houses all the time.







: Dd was hurt and no longer wants to be friends with her.

I can speak to this one, yes my house is often a disaster area and there is only 1 other family who I don't mind seeing it becasue I know there home is often just as bad if not worse and they truly don't care about the mess. I wont allow anyone else in becasue I know or at least feel they will judge me for the mess. Many people say they don't mind the mess but unless I know there home is just as bad, no way no how are they going to see the inside of my home when it looks like a bomb went off much of the time thanks to dd.


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