# Is AP good in the long run



## FoxintheSnow (May 11, 2004)

My baby is only 4 1/2 months old and I really enjoy AP. I was thinking though that many children ages 3 years and up (not all but many) that I know who were raised by AP moms are extremely bratty and disrespectful to their moms and very demanding, ie "mommy get off the phone and play with me now!" or another child "Momma pay attention to me now, not that lady! Momma now!" and the moms usually just comply with the child's request. I noticed they are brattier than a lot mainstreamers and I noticed they use the word now a lot. Has anyone ever noticed this? It could be based on other factors the moms have in common. Im just concerned of the outcome of my own son. I hope I dont offend anyonehere. Im not saying all kids of AP moms are brats.


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## PurpleBasil (Jan 28, 2004)

Is any child 'a brat'? Is it possible?

I've never heard of such a thing. I don't think it is possible.


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## Momtwice (Nov 21, 2001)

I would not describe the parents you are talking about as AP.

To me AP means listening to a child's cues and trusting that their needs are legitimate for things like very frequent physical contact, frequent breastfeeding, sleeping with them, along with non-violent discipline.

It does not mean putting the children in charge of everything before they are old enough to handle that responsibility. It does not mean failure to set boundaries of any kind.

Here's an article about "What Attachment Parenting is Not"

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/10/t130400.asp
(although babies have different temperaments at 7 months, the age he describes, I think this article is pretty good.)


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## Momtwice (Nov 21, 2001)

oops double post!


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## FoxintheSnow (May 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *playdoh*
Is any child 'a brat'? Is it possible?

I've never heard of such a thing. I don't think it is possible.

No not all children are brats? I dont know why you would think Im saying that when I specified in my post that I am not. And I gave specific examples of things these children were doing that I feel are bratty and I wouldnt want my son to do.


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## FoxintheSnow (May 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momtwice*
I would not describe the parents you are talking about as AP.

To me AP means listening to a child's cues and trusting that their needs are legitimate for things like very frequent physical contact, frequent breastfeeding, sleeping with them, along with non-violent discipline.

It does not mean putting the children in charge of everything before they are old enough to handle that responsibility. It does not mean failure to set boundaries of any kind.

Here's an article about "What Attachment Parenting is Not"

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/10/t130400.asp
(although babies have different temperaments at 7 months, the age he describes, I think this article is pretty good.)

Thank you that article helps a lot. I think it is not AP, it is AP being corrupted by these moms.


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## PurpleBasil (Jan 28, 2004)

I've never heard of a child that is 'a brat'. I do not believe this is possible as you say:

Quote:

Im not saying all kids of AP moms are brats.
'are brats'. I have never heard of 'a brat'.


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## FoxintheSnow (May 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *playdoh*
I've never heard of a child that is 'a brat'. I do not believe this is possible as you say:

'are brats'. I have never heard of 'a brat'.

Ok I didnt know you didnt know what brat was. I misunderstood. The dictionary says:
brat1 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (brt)
n.
A child, especially a spoiled or ill-mannered one.

You are lucky to have never met one.


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

I have a three year old who is never (really) "bratty". I "AP"'d her from the beginning. So, I think AP can be good in the long run. I think it's normal and good to question your own parenting style but it's a good idea to be very, very aware that you'll usually find what you're looking for, YK? If you're questioning, you're looking for affirmation. If you're defensive of your parenting style then you will not see potential problems.

For us, it was the best choice but we definitely adapted things to fit our unique child and our situation. There are many different applications of "AP" so you may have a family that counties to be child centered where that works or doesn't work. You may have a more family centered approach that does or doesn't work.

BTW, AP is not a guarantee that you'll have "perfect" children. I think people who assume that are going to end up disappointed. You're kids are going to do things you don't want them to do. I suggest using the parenting style that fits best (both practically and morally) and then begin to accept that things are still going to go "wrong".


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## Colorful~Mama (Feb 20, 2003)

i think what playdoh is saying that no child should ever be called 'a brat'. that its not possible for a child to be 'a brat'. The child may have ill manners, the child may be demanding, the child may not have been taught good social skills - but the child is still good. no child is bad. no child is a brat. maybe the product of poor parenting and in need of guidance, but not a brat. Its truly not nice to call children names. (forgive me if i'm wrong playdoh, this is just my read on it)

that said - i have ap'd my three kids (now almost 15, 4 and the babe turning a year old in three weeks) and I can tell you that if my child ever told me to 'get off the phone now' we would have a long talk about respect, being rude, patience and all the other things that would come out of a comment like that. Comments like that made by a 3 or 4year old child would open up discussion and communication in a true attached parent. It would be an opportunity for teaching, an opportunity for gentle but firm discipline and guidance.

sounds to me that the moms you're describing are not "AP" at all.


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## FoxintheSnow (May 11, 2004)

I dont make a habit of calling children brats. I just thought using the word brat would be the quickest and easiest way of describing the situation. I didnt mean to offend anyone. These moms claim to be AP but I guess theres a lot more to it than wearing a sling, extended breastfeeding, and cosleeping. When I questioned one of the moms as to why she lets her daughter talk to her that way she says "she wants her daughter to tell her when she needs her and she responds to her immediately to let her know she cares" and when I ask her why she allows her daughter to run around the house like a tornado throwing things on the floor and tearing up magazines. She says "I like nurture my daughter's natural exhuberance"


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## srain (Nov 26, 2001)

I've seen this too. My son is 4, and many of his AP-family friends are often allowed to be pretty obnoxious, more so than most of the non-APed kids we encounter. I don't think it's related to AP per se; I think it's related to discipline. Some people interpret AP to mean permissiveness, or never saying no. So I think what we're seeing is the outcome of discipline styles, rather than AP; and it just so happens that a good number of APers are more permissive with their kids.


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

The behaviors described by the op sound "demanding" to me. My child is ap'd, and she can be very demanding at times. I know *plenty of children that are not ap'd, and they can be very demanding at times. I think demanding behaviors are pretty normal for the age, kwim?

*Sometimes*, I even think it is best to meet the need of the child (when they are demanding), even if it has not been requested appropriately. Meet the need, and then address the demanding behavior when the child is feeling more centered--and better prepared to learn. Most times I address rudeness immediately, but not always. It really depends on the circumstances, and on the parent and child.

IMO, a parent does their child a disservice if they fail to teach the child the difference between a rude demand and a polite request. I am certainly teaching my child the difference--and she is learning--but gd does not provide an immediate solution. Just because people see demanding behaviors in my child does not mean that she is a brat--or that I am not teaching her appropriate behavior.


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## FoxintheSnow (May 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *srain*
So I think what we're seeing is the outcome of discipline styles, rather than AP; and it just so happens that a good number of APers are more permissive with their kids.


This is exactly what I thought. Thank You.


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sebastiansmommy*
when I ask her why she allows her daughter to run around the house like a tornado throwing things on the floor and tearing up magazines. She says "I like nurture my daughter's natural exhuberance"

How does this hurt anyone? If the parents are fine with it?
I let my dd do lots of things in our house that other families might not allow. Other families allow things I would not. As long as the child learns how to act appropriately in *other people's homes, whose business is it how much they run or what they tear up in their own home?


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## FoxintheSnow (May 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnmama*
How does this hurt anyone? If the parents are fine with it?
I let my dd do lots of things in our house that other families might not allow. Other families allow things I would not. As long as the child learns how to act appropriately in *other people's homes, whose business is it how much they run or what they tear up in their own home?

Because the whole point to my original post was that I dont want my child to turn out that way. Its fine if thats what others want, but its not what I want for my child. I just wanted to make sure that AP doesnt lead to this. And after reading some of the replies I have a much better understanding.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

"AP" is a huge term that means different things to different people. It isn't a "one size fits all" sort of a "system", if you will. "There is no one true way" (to quote a favorite SF author of mine). Some parents are OK with child tornados in their homes, others are not. If you aren't, then you don't have to allow this sort of behaviour in the name of AP, though most of us would say that solving the issue with spanking would not be an AP approach. There are certainly gentle discipline approaches to take to avoid (or at least limit) such behaviour, remembering that all kids get the wind in their sails every now and then, no matter what you do. There is a difference between gentle discipline and no discipline. One big thing to remember though, it that most GD approaches take time and consistancy. You may be seeing chilren behave in a way that you disapprove, whose parents are in the process of addressing that behaviour. But it doesn't happen over night, especially with a gentle approach. So don't judge too harshly, you never know where you will be in 3 years! But if you don't want to "nuture your child's natural exhuberance", I don't think there is anything in AP that says that you must.


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

ITA with Evan&Annas Mom (great post!).

Some of what you are seeing depends on what expectations YOU have about how children should behave. Some people have unrealistic expectations based on a history of punishment-based disciplines. Those expectations need to be replaced with solid knowledge of child development and psychology, and an understanding of what children are truly capable of at a given age. Others may not be so rigid or uninformed in their expectations, and yet we all differ in what sorts of behaviours we find annoying or just natural.

You need to decide what issues/behaviours are important to you and forget about other people's way of doing things and how they label themselves. They are no more entitled to be the defining role model of "AP" than anybody else. You identify what you want, then do some research to double-check that what you are expecting is actually within the child's abilities, then you can come to a great place like this forum







and find some great ideas for how to implement discipline specific to the issues you wish to address.

It's a myth that AP is not about discipline. But I do think part of that myth gets perpetuated by people who have unrealistic expectations of child behaviour (not saying that is you, just people in general).


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## DebraBaker (Jan 9, 2002)

Sorry, folks, but I've seen some pretty bratty behavior in children (ap'ed and not) I think its more a reflection of the parents (with a dash of the child's temperment) rather than a reflection on the child himself. I have nieces who are terrors (although they were much improved the last visit.) They are typical house apes my other SIL is afraid to throw a party because of these destructive little girls (the brother is pretty ill-behaved as well) but it's because the *parents* are too darn lazy to make rules and enforce those rules. Every other family in our extended family have well-behaved children even though our parenting philosophies run the spectrum. I believe this is because the rest of the families are strict in they establish family rules and are consistant with enforcing those rules, they do what they think is best for the family instead of what is easiest at the moment.

PS, I had to laugh at 3 being an "old" child my youngest is now five and my oldest is twenty-five.

DB


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## CerridwenLorelei (Aug 28, 2002)

as opposed to AP
or what *I* think of permissive parenting -no rules, no boundaries no consequences
and to me AP does have boundaries, rules etc Or rather the GD part ot it..

My exbil was 3 when I married exdh and that child I can honestly say was "spoiled' was it his fault at three and the previous years? Not from what I saw my MIL do ....later years when he learned things weren't that way oh say 13 and continued then I would have say the parent only set him up but he could try different
Not a popular view here but oh welll..


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

One of the keys to AP is balancing the needs of the child with the needs of the family...this is how you ap your children...I let my one year old pull all the books off the shelf...some AP mama's would move the books...some would work on teaching the child how to put the books back...we each could be very attached to our children but because of our own needs...ie no time to put the books back a zillion times a day, value the books too much to allow the possibility of them getting torn etc. etc. I let my one year old do it now...when she is old enough i will teach her to put them back when she is finished...this is a rule I will have when she is older...because I can live with the mess made by little kids but not by those old enough to understand and know better kwim?

So we are balancing needs here...I am sure Sophia will try to pull books off shelves at other peoples homes and they will think she's bratty, but of course I will redirect her and try to show her what she is allowed to do...I am prepared for the consequences...


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## momnloveit (May 28, 2002)

I just wanted to thank whoever posted that link. I've always thought I couldn't be called AP because I don't give my kids everything they want. I have limits and I teach them to respect those limits. I'm glad to know that that is actually a part of being AP.


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## Aura_Kitten (Aug 13, 2002)

i've felt the same way as the OP... and it took me a little while to realize that it's not attachment parenting that is flawed ~ it is a failure to set clear boundaries + be consistent w/ discipline.

early in the thread, someone mentioned that AP doesn't mean not setting boundaries ~ i agree with this.


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## babyj (May 22, 2004)

I would recommend reading the book "The Successful Child" by Dr. William Sears. It talks about the benefits and practices of AP long after babyhood.

bj


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

I thought the point of parenting practices that intentionally foster attachment is to promote later resilience and independence. That's the point, to me. My understanding was that gentle discipline was part of this long-term goal, resilience and independence. Gentle means no hitting, non-coercise, loving, but discipline means (to me) not being totally permissive.

Partly because I understand totally permissive parenting to not communicate love. From what I have seen, no limits feels scary to children, not loving.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

I agree...ultimately our children have to function as adults and the goal is to give them the LOVE and feeling of being valued while learning how to value others...I don't think permissive parenting teached them to value others and ultimately when others reject them they no longer are able to value themselves...we do our children no favours by making them selfish...it has to work for everyone...but in a gentle, natural, age appropriate manner...


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

Interesting! This thread is going in the direction I was thinking in the last couple of days. I got to thinking that “trouble spots” might come at different stages with families who practice AP. I think this is because things are getting worked out differently. I’m not sure how to best articulate this. An example is an AP’d toddler or school age child acting more “bratty” than a child the same age who is parented with a more authoritarian method. I think what you may have here is that the AP’d child is in the process of working out internal guides, which takes a while. A child who is parented in an authoritarian method may be “obeying” but hasn’t even begun to learn internal self-regulation. Along those lines the AP’d child is learning to self expression, which takes a long while to learn and in the process comes out as whining, temper tantrum-ing and etc. I feel these things are necessary for some children and another parenting style may avoid the negative manifestations of the process but only by blocking the entire process, yk?


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

That makes sense..but in some cases the process actually is shorter because the needs of the children are met as they go through it whereas in non-ap'd/gd children the process is blocked thereby making them more frustrated and resulting in more negative behaviour for longer...I think all this depends on the child...it's like with CIO...depending on the child CIO results in shutting down(which is interpreted as success by the parent) or more, longer, louder crying.

I still think it's about balance...most 4-5 year olds are able to control themselves a little better, verbalize emotions more and if the parent is attached they get the meaning of what they say more quickly than parents who don't know their child as well...

I also think a lot of times parents who are AP/GD tend to have more patience therefore they can handle children running through the house, messy toys, their child's exuberance which can be considered misbehaviour by some. I know I have tons more patience than many of my friends who parent differently than I do.

They think I am overly permissive, I just don't get annoyed by certain behaviours that would drive them crazy...my older girls (14 and 10 would laugh at the idea that I am permissive) but they know that respect is always in order...I do not take disrespect but I do allow them to speak their minds, and don't believe in the children must be seen and not heard that a lot of my friends still advocate. Oh well, I like my children and I know them best. They are older now and may well have been considered bratty when younger...


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

Oh, yea - that's totally what I'm saying - the process in AP is quicker. If they are not allowed to work it out age appropriately, they will work it you in the teen or adult years.

Allgirls, I'm not at all surprised that some parents may have seen you as permissive with young children while your pre-teens laugh at that. My bias is that this is a really good thing.

I wish I could remember this thing that a Child Development author said to me in a class I took or hers. Basically, she says that you don't prepare your child for future expectations by enforcing them earlier ~ you do it by creating age appropriate expectations along the way.


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## MisfitMama (Sep 4, 2003)

This is a great discussion. I agree with everyone - that the main problems with AP kids sometimes seeming "bratty" are one of 2 things:

1. The observers are not knowledgeable about what children really need - or rather, the observer believes all children should actually be totally obedient zombie-children, or

2. The parents of "bratty" children are unable to set boundaries - or more importantly, they don't even realize what kinds of boundaries are possible (see article below).

Hmmm. . . maybe I'd add

3. The parents of "bratty" children actually have a very adversarial relationship, despite being "AP," and they need to deal with their anger and resentment towards their child. I think this fosters "misbehavior" in children and also makes the parents out-of-tune with the child's needs. You can be co-sleeping and breastfeeding, for instance, and still be tuned out to some degree.

If anyone is interested, I think the best source of information/inspiration on this topic is to be found in _The Continuum Concept_ by Jean Liedloff. There is also a website:

http://www.continuum-concept.org

And a thought-provoking article:
http://www.continuum-concept.org/rea...InControl.html

MisfitMama


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Misfit, may I add a 4th reason? Maybe this is an area of "work in progress". Because I think it is very true that gentle discipline guidance/change takes longer than authoritarian. Authoritarian parents say "no jumping in the house" and they spank. And jumping stops. GD parents may say "no jumping in the house, but you can jump outside (or whatever)" or they try to figure out alternatives, or why the kid wants to jump, or how to cue the kid that jumping right now isn't appropriate. They remind kids, they discuss, whatever GD approach they chose. Eventually, jumping stops. But it takes longer. Its worth the time though because in the process the kid learned the internal discipline not to jump on the furniture, they still trust their parents rather than fear them, and they didn't learn that hitting someone littler than you is OK. In my head, the "cost" of all of these good outcomes is time and attention. So you may see "bratty" behaviour because the family is mid-process on the learning curve. Also, because you can really only GD a few things at a time, it may be that parents have decided that working on jumping isn't nearly so important as working on some other thing and jumping is the low-priority behaviour at the moment.


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## Aura_Kitten (Aug 13, 2002)

Evan&Anna's_Mom that is so true! GD is constantly a "work-in-progress."


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## Momtwice (Nov 21, 2001)

I wonder if the reason some people cringe at the word "brat" is because it seems so often to be used by people who don't even TRY to see the world through the child's eyes, the child's point of view.

I like the book The Continuum Concept too, and I agree with a lot of it, yet there are also parts of it I do not agree with.

A book I like even more is Everyday Blessings, the Inner Work of Mindful Parenting (Myla and Jon Kabat-Zinn.) Quote below.

Quote:

A young mother recounted the following story:

"...my parents came over to visit, and my older child was having a hard time and was acting out because the new baby was getting so much attention. I remember my parents reprimanding her, their disapproval, their chiding her to behave better, and I saw clearly in that moment that as long as my children and I were acting nice, or good, we were wonderful in their eyes, but as soon as we started acting human, we were met with judgement. Realizing this, I defended her in their presence. That was a healing moment... I was on her side.... keeping things 'nice" was not as important as my daughter's well being in that moment."

How many moments can you remember when your feelings were dismissed, disregarded, made fun of, belittled or punished as a child? ("What's the big deal?" "Why are you so sensitive?"') (_this can_) have a devastating effect on a child's self confidence....


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## MisfitMama (Sep 4, 2003)

MomTwice,

I'd be interested in what you didn't agree with in TCC - was it for religious reasons? You can PM me if you don't want to get off-topic. I'm quite curious!

Thanks for mentioning that other book - I'm always interested in new ones.

MisfitMama


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## babyj (May 22, 2004)

Could it be that we who AP are just more accepting of children being childish than other parenting styles? Are we more sympathatic to negative behavior because our child woke up during the night, is getting teeth, is upset by a new sibling etc? Do other parenting styles allow a child to have a "bad" day?

I allow things at my house like running around and bed jumping because I think it's part of being a child. I do not allow yelling inside, running around in restaurants, libraries, churches etc., or anything that is disrespectful to animals or people. I do know that my son is very tuned into what we think of things. He has a very good intuition into people and will ask us about things if he "feels" unsure. I attribute this to AP and the fact that he is attached to people and wants to take his cues from them. (DS is 2&1/2)

babyj


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## Momtwice (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MisfitMama*
MomTwice,

I'd be interested in what you didn't agree with in TCC - was it for religious reasons? You can PM me if you don't want to get off-topic. I'm quite curious!

Thanks for mentioning that other book - I'm always interested in new ones.

MisfitMama










No, not religious reasons.







If I can dig it up I will answer later. Not sure where it is in this messy place....







I do agree with a lot that is in it, but not 100%.


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## FoxintheSnow (May 11, 2004)

I think I should clarify that when I am talking about "bratty" children I am not talking about kids who like to have fun and run around or jump and who are acting demanding once in a while because they are having a bad day. The kids I am talking about are constantly disrespectful and extrememly demanding on a daily basis for the past year or two. I understand the difference between what a child is like and what a disrespectful child is like. Also my point wasnt that there is something wrong with these kids or anything, my point was I dont want my son to turn out that way.


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## gethane (Dec 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sebastiansmommy*
Because the whole point to my original post was that I dont want my child to turn out that way. Its fine if thats what others want, but its not what I want for my child. I just wanted to make sure that AP doesnt lead to this. And after reading some of the replies I have a much better understanding.

I'd like to reassure you that I've always been very AP with my babies. But I become much more strict when they can understand directions. I had 3 children all under 5, for TWO YEARS! I needed the walking ones to mind. When I used to take them shopping, my kids were the only ones NOT screaming or whining for candy. I never ever got them candy if they asked. Once in a while, however, while in line I'd say, since you all were so good and didn't ask, everyone can pick out some gum/candy, etc.

Now, at 13, 11 and 10 my kids all love me, hug me, tell me they love me, etc. But they also mind. They don't mind perfectly every time. But I can say, "Hey, I need some help in the kitchen," and I get it.

AP is not about letting children run wild







. AP is about knowing what your child needs, and sometimes what the child needs is DISCIPLINE!










edit: Oh something else. I never ever give in to tantrums of any kinds. In fact, I would say, "well, now since you've lost it, I CAN'T change my mind." I don't see many blowups







I do change my mind if my children argue with me respectfully, backed up with reason.


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sebastiansmommy*
I understand the difference between what a child is like and what a disrespectful child is like.

I understand what you're saying but I want to comment on this one thing. "Respect" is an interesting thing, imo. I believe that there are many 'orderly' children who don't actually respect their parents.

Respect is a unique thing and it manifests itself in many ways. I think the beauty of "AP" in its finest moments is that it teaches children internal motivations for things like respect, gratitude, empathy&#8230;


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## scorpioqueen (Apr 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sebastiansmommy*
My baby is only 4 1/2 months old and I really enjoy AP. I was thinking though that many children ages 3 years and up (not all but many) that I know who were raised by AP moms are extremely bratty and disrespectful to their moms and very demanding, ie "mommy get off the phone and play with me now!" or another child "Momma pay attention to me now, not that lady! Momma now!" and the moms usually just comply with the child's request. I noticed they are brattier than a lot mainstreamers and I noticed they use the word now a lot. Has anyone ever noticed this? It could be based on other factors the moms have in common. Im just concerned of the outcome of my own son. I hope I dont offend anyonehere. Im not saying all kids of AP moms are brats.

AP does NOT mean allowing child to have or do what ever they like. I believe in a family oriented enviroment. As my DD "keeper" its my responsibility to help her learn how to fit into this enviroment. I just believe that this is achieved through patience and trust so.
I allowed my DD to breastfeed on demmand, and we are extending BF (20 months) but I gently night weined her at 13 months.
We cosleept, but DD also learned to sleep on her own, "does now' and I did sleep train at 9 months but never used CIO
I slung my infant and still do my toddler, but DD also plays by her self a lot, trust me she EXTREMELY independent.
We encourage "expressive behavior" by providing her with a controlled safe enviroment and through diffrent mediums alternitive commucations ect. not buy allowing her to color all over the walls or screaming being violent
We teach proper behavior through our examples, redirrection and consistancy, we don't spank yell, or use excessive timeouts.
MAny parents say well I breastfeed or we cosleep ect so we are AP and sorry this doesn't make an AP parent. I know some will disagree but I do think you can have a formula only feeding baby who sleeps in a crib and still be AP. How? By holding and cradling baby when feeding, buy rocking baby to sleep, and when ready encouraging sleep with touch and a gentle voice instead of CIO or extention. Buy not ingnoring the nighttime crys.
My personal experience, my DD is 20 months she is on task developmently and a head in gross/fine motor skills she walked at 9 months despite being a slung APer. SHe is very independent, take her to a park ect, its see ya mom I'm doing my own thing. Even at home she wants to play on her own and only come to me when she needs help. Even then she only will accept enough so she can do it on her own. SHe has never hit another child nor has bitten another shes actually told another child that biting gives owies. (learned from nursing) She goes takes one nap each day with out fightting (ussually around 11am) and has a quiet period each afternoon (about 3pm) and goes to sleep with zero effort. She is a typical toddler that plays hArd and has fun, but yes has boundries.and in no way is a brat

Deanna


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## FireWithin (Apr 29, 2004)

:
lovin' this discussion


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## arcenciel (Nov 26, 2001)

This is a great thread. I never worried about the outcome of AP'ing, but it's really interesting to talk about the details. I have a friend who would describe herlself as AP and whose children I would never describe as bratty, but her two older sons are 9 and 10 and they are really out of control sometimes. She has big problems with them and I heard comments from other parents with children in their classes about them being quite violent towards other children. To me as an outsider it is obvious that she simply is too "Gentle" and not enough "Discipline". In many ways her children are lovely, but she makes it difficult for herself by not saying no enough (in whatever attatched way she might choose to say no....).


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

My older children(10 and 13) are very argumentative sometimes and it can be frustrating however I did teach them to question things that don't make sense to them...I just didn't want them to turn that on me~"sigh"

Sometimes I think others see that as being mouthy~especially teachers...but they do start their arguements with " I respectfully disagree..."

They do argue really loudly with each other though...my oldest daughter has trouble with respect...I tell her not everyone deserves your respect but everyone deserves to be treated with respect....it's made it easier for her to deal with some very bad teachers over the years...

In the long run I hope they are seen as strong and independant, not mouthy and bratty...I think they are heading that way...


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## Rainbow (Nov 19, 2001)

I don't know if I consider 3-7 "the long run" I will say most teenagers and adults I know who are balanced, respectful, kind, honest, and self fulfilled are people whose parents did some form of AP- primarily the respect and GD aspect.


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## frand (May 8, 2004)

My sister and I both parent from a strong AP philosophy, but our different temperments lead to different decisions. She is much more permissive than I am. Sometimes I admire it and sometimes I question her judgment. I definitely set more limits than she does. She allows a lot more TV and backtalk than I do.

But when I compare my AP daughter to more strictly raised kids around us, here's the thing -- children are intensely drawn to someone who provides AP attention. They are on my lap and in my arms and telling me things that make their mother's jaws drop ("She never told me that!"). AP has changed me, has made me see all children with more loving eyes, not just my own. And I know in my heart that the way I practice AP will leave me with no regrets. I won't wish I had nursed my child longer, held her more, or listened more closely when we talked. The book I found most balanced in terms of AP philosophies was "Whole Child/Whole Parent." It was that book that made me realize the notion of a 'good child' was really about the parent's ego. I don't mean that in a judgmental way -- I just found that book helped me get over some unrealistic expectations. There is a priceless example where a little boy rants at his father while he is watering the grass and the little boy threatens to hit him with his rake. The father never misses a beat, finishes his watering, and gently takes his child inside for a nap. He never gets angry or lashes out. He just knows that the child is way exhausted and needs a nap. That book inspired me when I wasn't sure. My daughter is 6 and I wouldn't do it any other way if I had it to do over again.


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## azyre (Oct 10, 2003)

I've had similar concerns. However, while at 4 months old you are meeting every need, it won't be long before long some "wants" get thrown into the picture.

I try my best to not frustrate my 15mo, but this doesn't mean she gets everything she wants. So she is having practise at coming up against limits or boundaries. AP means that I do not yell at her across the room to stop touching something, then hit her when she fails to comply - it means I give her an quick explanation, try and distract her, and then move her bodily, without judegment. And sometimes that frustrates her A LOT.

I think there is a danger if you find it hard to let your child be upset and will "give in", for want of a better word, to stop it. I think my job is to make sure I am setting reasonable boundaries, and help her deal with frustration, respect her and strive to meet her needs for love, affection and regard. My job is not maintain her equilibrium past a certain point regardless of what it takes. Setting reasonable boundaries is a TOUGH job tho.


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