# talk to me about why a baby would keep flipping breech



## jecaly (Oct 6, 2003)

hi mamas,

so i'm 37 weeks tomorrow, and last night realized that this baby is breech *again*! s/he has flipped to vertex twice with the help of the webster technique, both times staying there for about a week and a half, then flipping back to breech. i try to stay in optimal positioning (squats, hands and knees) as much as possible when s/he's vertex, but it's not working to engage the head enough, i guess.

obviously, i'll be heading back to the chiropractor as soon as i can, but does anyone with more breech experience than i have ideas about what could be causing this? the only thing i can think of is that this is a smaller baby than my other two (who were 10+ pounds each), thanks to a diet very low in refined sugar and flour this time around. i went swimming yesterday, too, but that shouldn't affect positioning, right?

thanks for any thoughts--

*jennifer


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## Spark (Nov 21, 2001)

First off, I'm offering you big hugs & love here. You sound really frustrated and concerned. I'd be, too, if I was working so hard for a vertex baby!









So, is breech really bad? I personally believe that birth is best when we don't mess with it. There could be some important reason that your baby needs to be born breech. Perhaps the cord is too short. Perhaps his/her anatomy just fits better through your pelvis that way. Maybe the placement of the placenta makes breech a safer, easier birth.

Do you have research on breech births? If you're using a care provider, waht's his/her breech protocol? Does that make you feel comfortable about delivering breech? If you're using a care provider that doesn't feel comfortable with breech births at all... SWITCH. It is never too late to give your baby a beautiful peaceful safe birth.

So swimming-- yes, that could make a baby flip. Out of the water, gravity tells the baby his/her head should be down. it's the heaviest part of a baby and therefore usually points down. But, in the water, gravity is taken out of the equation.

37 weeks is still plenty of time for your babe to settle into his/her ideal birth position... which may be breech. Either way, wishing you a beautiful gentle birth when your babe is ready.


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

Maybe the cord is too short or it's pulling a certain way and baby can't get comfortable otherwise. I had a friend whose baby had a very short cord. The baby was posterior and she was so worried that it would be that for the birth. Baby turned during birth and came out the right way, but the cord was so, so short that we figured out why the baby perferred posterior. I would just trust your baby. I'm sorry it keeps flipping. It's hard when you don't know what's going on.


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## Synchro246 (Aug 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Spark* 

So swimming-- yes, that could make a baby flip. Out of the water, gravity tells the baby his/her head should be down. it's the heaviest part of a baby and therefore usually points down. But, in the water, *gravity is taken out of the equation.*

I don't know if I agree with that. Water lessens the effect of gravity, but does not take it out of the equation. I wonder if the swmming affected the adjustment of the pelvis.

Since the baby can and does flip vertex and does stay that way for a while I would think that the cord legnth and placenta positioning aren't the cause, though that is one cause for persistant breeches.

In subsequent pregnancies babies have more room to move around because the uterus changes shape after the first time. It's more globular and less elongated. The fact that this baby is smaller may amplify this effect.

I would keep up the frequent trips to the chiro, since that does work for you. That and communicate with your baby.


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## Robinna (Aug 11, 2003)

I'm not much help - just wanted to send you some hugs and sympathy. My baby didn't flip back and forth... she was jsut a persistent breech that nothing would budge. There was no apparent reason for it - lots of cord, not wrapped around her in any way, placenta was in a normal place (I don't remember where, but it was whatever "the usual" is), nothing physically unusual about the baby herself, etc. She just wanted to come bum first, and was darned certain about it.

Are you looking for practitioners who would catch a breech baby for you? It drives me nuts when people say "oh just switch practitioners" since FINDING these practitioners is NOT a piece of cake - I found TWO in a city of 6 hospitals with birthing wings. Neither of them was willing to do more than catch IF they happened to be on call when I went into labour and IF I walked in pushing (ie I had to give them an excuse to do it). Neither of them were on call on our day, and my baby was born surgically despite enormous efforts on my part to get her turned or to find a practitioner. I really envy people for whom it appears so easy.

So I totally feel your pain, and stress, and probably downright anguish. Man oh man do I feel it, still, and my dd is 10 months old now. The absence of practitioners who are not afraid of breech can steal not only the birth but the whole end of your pregnancy and it's not fair. HUGS.

xo Robin


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## Rockies5 (May 17, 2005)

I tend to carry breech babies and these are the reasons: Previous big babis and ample room in the the uterus for flipping. I've read that tilted uterus or short waisted moms, or moms with more then 2 babies are likier to carry breech later.

YES Swimming does effect babies lie and I have been warned against it by my MW. She says she has no stats, but we are in the rockies here and most moms are very physical...during the winter we just move to indoor sports like swimming. She swears that the swimmers babies are more then twice as likely to be breech, and since mine lie breech until 35+ weeks and do the OFP as well, she wondered if I was swimming.

Keep up the OFP. It's my belief that if he's flipping, he's got room to flip back. Keep on the OFP, find an alternative to swimming (do a head stand of two to get him back to vertex first







) and check your dates. If he is that much smaller maybe you're off or need more calories?? Have you considered doing bindings to shore up the lower abdomen so it isn't so roomy? I was reading about this a few nights back. Do you have one of those "pendolous" abdomens?

My first turned head down at 39, and stopped flipping at 36-37weeks.


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## jecaly (Oct 6, 2003)

thanks, all. i am actually blessed with a midwife who is willing to consider attending me for a vaginal breech at home, and i'm having a (rare, for me) ultrasound at my backup care provider on wednesday to check on the cord and any other possible obstructions--technically as a prerequisite for an external version, but really, for me, to make sure there's nothing to prevent a healthy vaginal breech birth, if it comes to that. in the meantime, i got in to see my chiropractor this afternoon and there was a pretty pulled round ligament, i think from swimming, so that could be causing the repeat flip and maybe not a larger positioning issue? here's hoping.

anyway, thanks so much for all your good words and wishes! they really helped my state of mind today.

*jennifer

edited to answer questions that were posted while my half-composed response sat here all day:

there *is* a reason s/he's smaller this time around; i consciously went all weston a. price with my diet (no--well--very little refined sugar or flour; raw/cultured pasture-fed dairy, organic whole grains and vegetables, pasture-fed meat, etc), trying to avoid another 10-pound baby and the shoulder dystocia, 2nd degree tearing, vaginal hematoma and hemmorrhage (whee) that went along with my dd's birth 2 years ago. thanks for the specific warning against swimming--i'll definitely avoid it for the rest of the pregnancy, no question! i don't have a pendulous abdomen usually, but i'm sure i have a more than roomy uterus after my 2 large babies (one two years ago, one 18 years ago). it certainly would make sense as the reason, and i like that a lot better than a cord wrap or other obstruction! and if i may ask, rockies5, out of curiosity--how did those breech-flipping births go for you?

thanks again--j


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## mwherbs (Oct 24, 2004)

maybe plenty of room-- what one mw told me to do a long time ago was once the baby is vertex- to put clean rolled up sox on the left and the right to and then belly band--- until the baby settles in deeply enough-- hopefully this will sort of keep the baby in position--


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## jecaly (Oct 6, 2003)

i have a vertex baby this morning! yay for chiropractic care. lunges, squats, long walks and belly bands r me for the next few days--thanks all for your suggestions.

*j


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## mamabadger (Apr 21, 2006)

I knew a midwife who often did manual versions. She would turn a baby once, and if it flipped over again she would do a second and third version for free. If the baby flipped after the third time, she wouldn't make another attempt. She said it showed that the baby needed to be breech, either because of a short cord, low-lying placenta, or whatever, and it wouldn't be safe to keep trying to turn it. Maybe your baby just knows it needs to be in the breech position.

I'm glad you have a midwife who can attend you in that case. Best of luck!


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