# Daycare baby and shaking... (need quick advice)



## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I have a six month old daycare baby.

For the last month she has been shaking slightly. Not all the time, but on and off through the day.

THe parents took her to the doctor, and he said it was just a habit, and he saw nothing wrong with her.

She's alert, happy, silly, right where she should be in every way.

But, this moring, she was shaking worse than normal. Instead of her usual shivering shake, it was slightly more violent.

WHen she eats, it stops completely for a few hours. It's always been that way. She shakes, we feed her, and the shaking stops.

I called her mom and told her I am not comfortable with this at all and I wanted her to come get her and take her back to the doctor.

The mom wants to take her to see a neurologist, but without the DR's O.K, the insurance will not allow it.

How can mom MAKE the doctor give a reccomendation without seeming too pushy. She's really worried about being pushy. (I have no idea why)

Need ideas quickly, as her appointment is in two hours.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

BTW, I suggested bursting into tears. Usually crying works.


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## Jennifer3141 (Mar 7, 2004)

Tell the woman to tell her doctor that the baby's daycare provider is not willing to take baby until this has been investigated. You do not want a child in your care that is having some sort of serious health problem that has gone untreated - it's not worth the risk to you.

Talk with the mama beforehand. Reassure her that you know she's not doing anything wrong. And encourage her to get second and third opinions!


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## clutterbug (Apr 6, 2007)

Gosh, that sounds unnerving! I don't really know how to insist without seeming pushy, but if she has to get pushy, she should be - if her gut feeling is that it should be checked, she should go with it and not care whether her ped/family doc is offended. Maybe try the "I'm quite worried that this is persistent" angle...? Is it possible the shaking could also be blood sugar related - maybe she should have that checked as well?


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## clutterbug (Apr 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nextcommercial* 
BTW, I suggested bursting into tears. Usually crying works.

Excellent idea!


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

i agree with the idea to have her tell the dr she needs a note from a nuerologist saying that everything has been checked out and that the baby is either okay or is being treated, so she wanted to get a referral so she could get that taken care of right away as she needs her daughter to be able to attend daycare so she can work, finding another daycare isnt an option, and that to be honest she herself is becomming very concerned.


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## tbone_kneegrabber (Oct 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Super Glue Mommy* 
i agree with the idea to have her tell the dr she needs a note from a nuerologist saying that everything has been checked out and that the baby is either okay or is being treated, so she wanted to get a referral so she could get that taken care of right away as she needs her daughter to be able to attend daycare so she can work, finding another daycare isnt an option, and that to be honest she herself is becomming very concerned.









:

also maybe helping her feel empowered by telling her that her doctor "works for her" etc.


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## ewe+lamb (Jul 20, 2004)

From my experience this sounds like diabetes type 1 - this is life threatening - I would suggest this to the mother and have her dd's blood glucose checked out - then take it from there.


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## mytwogirls (Jan 3, 2008)

See a doctor until they will give a referral. This does not sound very normal, I am shocked a doc will not give a referral if it is possibly neurological???


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## tinyblackdot (Aug 31, 2007)

that is crazy! all i have ever had to do is just hint at the idea of seeing a specialist and my dr gets me a referral asap. Has she asked the dr?

I always just call the receptionist and have one of them fax over a referral to the dr.....they always do it with no questions asked.


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## MtBikeLover (Jun 30, 2005)

We had an issue one time where our ped would not give us the referral for something for our DS. We switched our doctor immediately and went for a second opinion. The new ped gave us the referral we wanted.

Beyond getting pushy, since she isn't willing to do it, I would suggest that she go see another ped ASAP if they don't give her a referral today.

Another option would be to take the baby to the ER the next time the shaking starts. For me personally, I have gotten some of the best care in the ER. She will have to pay the ER fee (in my case it is $75) but it would be money well spent in my opinion.

By the way, if you are seen in the ER and you have an HMO, you will be seen by specialists and you don't need referrals for this. I went to the ER with a kidney stone and the urologist was called. I continued to see the urologist through the whole treatment and follow-ups and never needed a referral from my primary.


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

That sounds super scary. I personally wouldn't want to be responsible for that child until a diagnosis is made and steps are taken to correct this health problem.

If the baby's mother asks her doctor for a referral to a neurologist and he refuses, she needs to find a new doctor. Our pediatrician will give us any referral we feel necessary. (So far he's given us referrals to an allergist and a pulmonologist with no questions asked.)


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## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Tell her to go to another doctor immediately. Do you have a pediatrician or GP that you could recommend to her?

If a serious problem is found, I suggest she file a complain against the original pediatrician (and I come from a family with many doctors in it, so I'm certainly not generally on the "all doctors are evil" bandwagon).

ETA: I'm completely baffled by the idea that the doctor won't give her a referral--I've never heard of such a thing. He has nothing to lose by doing so, but much to lose if he doesn't and ends up being wrong. Moreover, given the fact that eating improves the baby's condition, it seems very clear that there's a physiological basis for the shaking, and that it's not just "habit." And what on earth does it mean for a 6-month-old to get into the "habit" of shaking anyway? She needs a new doctor, and not just for the referral.

Please update us on this.


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## lauratheexplorer (Jan 1, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ewe+lamb* 
From my experience this sounds like diabetes type 1 - this is life threatening - I would suggest this to the mother and have her dd's blood glucose checked out - then take it from there.

I was thinking the same thing.. shaking stops after eating. Low sugars could cause trembling, etc.


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## veganone (May 10, 2007)

I agree that it sounds like a blood sugar issue of some sort. I agree with crying and would also say that the daycare provider is refusing to care for her without a diagnosis and okay from the doctor along with how to manage the shaking. Insisting on a diagnosis means he can't just say "habit", which sounds crazy to me anyway.

I would tell her to call her insurance and tell them that the doctor is witholding a necessary referral for a scary medical condition in an infant. I've had good luck with getting an immediate referral and switch in PCP by going directly to the insurance company.

Or go to the ER directly.

She could always describe the shaking as a "seizure" even if that's a bit of a stretch, too. I'm all for exaggerating symptoms to get treatment when the doctor isn't taking you seriously.


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## Dabble (Jun 14, 2007)

Absolutely she needs to be evaluated. Tell the mom to make you the bad guy - say that you absolutely will not have her in your care until she is under the care of a doctor for the shaking episodes.

And I agree that it is a huge liability to have a child in your care who has a mysterious ailment that is not being treated by a doctor.


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## Juvysen (Apr 25, 2007)

Sounds like a blood sugar issue to me... I'd push for the second opinion.


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## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennifer3141* 
Tell the woman to tell her doctor that the baby's daycare provider is not willing to take baby until this has been investigated. You do not want a child in your care that is having some sort of serious health problem that has gone untreated - it's not worth the risk to you.

This is a great idea. All true, and the doctor will have to cave!


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## MOMYS (Nov 5, 2008)

Please keep us posted!


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## nummies (Jun 9, 2007)

Yes to all the PP.

She needs to be seen.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Mom just called.

They sent them to the children's hospital here in town. Mom is a complete wreck. All she really knows is that the first bloodwork they did in the office came back bad, and the doctor sent them right to the hospital.

BUT, before he saw the bloodwork, he suggested we do Plyometrics with the baby. WTH????? He feels like she was just showing a need to bounce in a johnny jumper type thing. *rolls eyes* Sure, she loves to bounce. But, why on earth that would cause her shaking I don't know.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nextcommercial* 
Mom just called.

They sent them to the children's hospital here in town. Mom is a complete wreck. All she really knows is that the first bloodwork they did in the office came back bad, and the doctor sent them right to the hospital.

Oh my goodness, I hope the baby is okay. Kudos to you for being persistent and making sure she was seen by a doctor again, and for helping to give her mama the strength to keep after the doctor for a referral.

I hope the doctor remembers this incident in the future when he's hesitant to oblige a parent's wish for further testing.


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## tinyblackdot (Aug 31, 2007)

please keep us updated!

I would so be finding a new pediatricain!


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

i really dislike when drs don't trust parents when parents are concerned. that happened when I was a teen. I had gallstones... needed my gallbladder removed. but it took my mom hounding my dr to amuse her and do an ultrasound of my gallbladder. he insisted it wasnt possible - i was too young, too thin, to healthy, etc... but i was in a lot of pain especially after eating certain foods. and we had family history of this same problem occuring at young ages.... well once he found out and scheduled surgery but I had to have it removed 2 days later via emergency because I fainted from the pain at school...

anyway, im glad she finally is getting things checked out! please keep us posted. poor child and mother too


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## veganone (May 10, 2007)

Please keep us posted. And I really do hope that the mama complains about the doctor to the practice and her insurance.

Fingers xed that it's nothing serious and easily treated!


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## Breathless Wonder (Jan 25, 2004)

Sounds like low blood sugar to me too! I really hope she is able to get the doctors to listen to her, and get at the root cause of this!


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

A blood sugar thing was my first thought too, since eating makes it stop.

I don't know how it works there, but here a doctor can't refuse a referal if you insist on it. Also agree with those who said to make you the "bad guy" telling the doc you refuse to let the baby stay when being untreated for something that could be serious. I'd personally also write a letter so it's on file and the doc can't say mom was lying about it.

I hope the baby's ok. The doctor needs to learn, so... you know, charge him for the hospital stay...


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Aww... Dad just called to see if I could keep the older sibling later tonight.

She is diabetic.

Have you ever heard of a diabetic infant? I thought diabetes didn't show up until age six or seven YEARS, not months.

I'm so sad for them.


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Yes, I have heard of a diabetic infant. It is certainly uncommon, though.

Gah. A bunch of random laypeople on the internet who have never seen the child, knew there was a blood sugar problem, and the ped was reluctant to refer? Is it one of those insurance situations where his pay gets docked for "too many" referrals?


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## veganone (May 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nextcommercial* 
Aww... Dad just called to see if I could keep the older sibling later tonight.

She is diabetic.

Have you ever heard of a diabetic infant? I thought diabetes didn't show up until age six or seven YEARS, not months.

I'm so sad for them.

I think Type 1 can show up really young. I think she really does need to file a complaint against that pediatrician. I also think it's pathetic that all of us (no medical training here) knew it sounded blood sugar related and he didn't. I'm glad it's diagnosed now so they can start with treatment.

Hugs to the family - what a hard thing to process.


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## Jojo F. (Apr 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lolar2* 
Gah. A bunch of random laypeople on the internet who have never seen the child, knew there was a blood sugar problem









:


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## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

My DH was 13 months old when he was diagnosed. He's the earliest I've ever heard, most doctors are surprised when we say 13 MONTHS rather than years.

Poor baby. How frustrating for those parents. I hope no damage was done between the first onset of symptoms and now...poor thing...


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## Mercury_Girl (Jan 12, 2006)

I am so sorry to hear this is what's wrong & I'm even more sorry that the Dr took this long to figure things out. Hopefully now that the diabetes is caught proper treatment can get baby doing well ASAP & sending prayers no permanent damage was done from that doc.


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## Tera_&_Gibson (Dec 11, 2006)

That is so scary. I sure hope they get some answers at the children's hospital.


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## Labyrinth (Apr 14, 2008)

Aw, poor baby









I'm glad they caught it- it sounds like they caught it before she started getting "really sick" (although it is clear that she was sick). Kudos to you and mom for pushing it!


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## Lemon Juice (Jun 6, 2005)

I hope she is okay. I suspected blood sugar when I read the first post you wrote too. I'm glad she has been diagnosed and that she is on her way to feeling better now.

Keep us posted.


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## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

and be sure to leave a nasty google review for that doc. So many of them don't realize that they are playing with people's lives here.

Good for you to for being so supportive!


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## Softmama (Jun 10, 2003)

thank god that baby had you as a daycare provider. mom might have waited longer on her own...


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## Tilia (Nov 18, 2006)

Wow, I am glad they figured it out!


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## tinyblackdot (Aug 31, 2007)

s

Im glad that they figured it out before it caused serious damage!


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## Breathless Wonder (Jan 25, 2004)

Glad they figured it out. It is, in general, a much easier disease to manage these days, particularly with the insulin pump.


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## prothyraia (Feb 12, 2007)

Just this week I heard a piece about an infant with type 1 diabetes on NPR. Very scary, but interesting.

http://thestory.org/archive/the_stor...rents.mp3/view


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## kblackstone444 (Jun 17, 2007)

I hope the parents file a complaint about the original doctor!!! She could have died if left untreated!


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## egoldber (Nov 18, 2002)

A co-worker of mine's infant son died of undiagnosed Type I diabetes when he was 12 months old. I'm so glad they caught it! Good for you!!!


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## Jennifer3141 (Mar 7, 2004)

So we all now know that this baby's first doctor is the type to play the odds and disregard the mama. I hope this baby got medical attention fast enough to prevent any damage and a "way to go" to the OP for pushing this!!! You've probably saved a baby's life.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

OP i am a single mom whose dd went to dc.

i just wanted to say how much i appreciate the care and concern you showed towards the child instead of just writing it off. thank you for being a caregiver.

it is so hard to have someone else raise your child. but when we know someone like you is taking care of that child - what peace of mind it is for us.

THANK YOU!!!!!

that child is probably alive today because of your insistance.


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## Sheal (Apr 19, 2007)

Might be hypo or hyperglycemia.

I suffered from it as a teenager, still do from time to time if I don't eat properly. It's a reaction to the blood sugar levels in your system. Not diabetes but a reaction to how much or how little sugar is in your blood. It's environmental rather than disease so to speak.

If I eat too much sugar (like pig out on chocolate or candies) I shake and get extremely over active and over stimulated. I'm bouncing literally.

If I have too little to each, I bottom out and shake in the hands and extremities. I get lethargic and slow mentally. I stutter too.

If I eat if I have a hypoglycemic reaction, it goes away almost instantly (within minutes of eating).

This doctor works for her, if I were in her shoes I'd point that out and mention the provider does not want the child there until she is given a clean bill of health by a specialist. I'd ask for both a neurologist and a specialist for the possible blood sugar problems that may be present.

She pays this doctor not the other way around.


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## Dabble (Jun 14, 2007)

I too am sorry to hear the diagnosis, but so glad that your persistence and genuine concern led them to it.

I hope that the baby can feel better very quickly with proper management, and that there was no permanent damage done by the delay in treatment.


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## mysticmomma (Feb 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lolar2* 
Gah. A bunch of random laypeople on the internet who have never seen the child, knew there was a blood sugar problem, and the ped was reluctant to refer? Is it one of those insurance situations where his pay gets docked for "too many" referrals?


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Labyrinth* 
Aw, poor baby








Kudos to you and mom for pushing it!


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Softmama* 
thank god that baby had you as a daycare provider. mom might have waited longer on her own...









: to all of that.







:


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Thanks everybody.

The baby can't go home until the family gets some training in diabetes. Even the grandparents are taking the training class.

I'd love to take credit, but diabetes NEVER even crossed my mind. I would have rolled my eyes if someone had suggested it. LOL I thought it was seisures. I was the one who suggested a neurologist.

The baby won't be back in daycare this year. Mom is a teacher and can ask for a long term sub to finish out the year for her. She might have to go back for the last week of school, but otherwise, she will be home with the baby.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nextcommercial* 
But, this moring, she was shaking worse than normal. Instead of her usual shivering shake, it was slightly more violent.

I called her mom and told her I am not comfortable with this at all and I wanted her to come get her and take her back to the doctor.

no u didnt have to come up with a diagnosis. that is not your 'job'. you knew something was not right, and you wanted her seen right away. you could have written it off too since they had already gone to the doctor and the doctor said it was ok.

i am so glad the mom is able to take time off and be with her baby.


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## K&JsMaMa (May 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Juvysen* 
Sounds like a blood sugar issue to me... I'd push for the second opinion.

This is what i was thinking.


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## KristyDi (Jun 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nextcommercial* 
Aww... Dad just called to see if I could keep the older sibling later tonight.

She is diabetic.

Have you ever heard of a diabetic infant? I thought diabetes didn't show up until age six or seven YEARS, not months.

I'm so sad for them.


When I was a teacher I taught a type 1 kid that had been diagnosed as an infant. He was in the 4th grade when I had him.

My younger brother was diagnosed type 1 at 15 years old. I was in my early 20's at the time and remember those training classes well. I was living at home at the time so I went with my parents.

Both my former student and my brother live very normal lives. My brother is even a great athlete. He was on a state champ cross country team 2 years after he was diagnosed. They are both on the insulin pump and because of that have very few restrictions on their diet. I think you have to wait till the kid is a bit older to have a pump though.

My point is that while this is a scary time for the parents, once they get it figured out diabetes is very treatable and doesn't really have to affect quality of life. I'm so glad you and the mom pushed for further investigation.


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## luv-my-boys (Dec 8, 2008)

as a nurse that has worked with children I am shocked that a pediatrician did not refer her out to a specialist(s) or ask for additional testing. Anyone who has worked with children knows that children are very good at masking what is really going on with them. I have seen very sick children laughing and playing and looking "normal". Please please urge her to push for that referral and that the dr ask for the child to be seen urgently. A appt 2 wks from now isnt appropriate. If all else fails please have her go to the ER. This can be so many things!! If the dr does not want to give her the referral and would have her tell them that you want it noted in her medical chart that the mother has asked for several referrals and it was denied. **I hate to say it but sometimes you have remind them that they are liable if something were wrong and they didnt seek addl help, in most cases I seen dr's cave _in case_ then asssume the liability risk if they hadnt**


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## luv-my-boys (Dec 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nextcommercial* 
Aww... Dad just called to see if I could keep the older sibling later tonight.

She is diabetic.

Have you ever heard of a diabetic infant? I thought diabetes didn't show up until age six or seven YEARS, not months.

I'm so sad for them.


I just the update. I am glad that they know what is happening and are now getting resources to help their child.


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## MOMYS (Nov 5, 2008)

Thank you for the update! This family has been on my mind since yesterday!


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## mamahart (Sep 25, 2007)

Bad bad doctor. They should have him investigated or grounded or something terrible. This is the sort of stuff I have nightmares about.
I am so glad to hear the babe is alright and with mom.


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## veganone (May 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nextcommercial* 
Thanks everybody.

The baby can't go home until the family gets some training in diabetes. Even the grandparents are taking the training class.

I'd love to take credit, but diabetes NEVER even crossed my mind. I would have rolled my eyes if someone had suggested it. LOL I thought it was seisures. I was the one who suggested a neurologist.

The baby won't be back in daycare this year. Mom is a teacher and can ask for a long term sub to finish out the year for her. She might have to go back for the last week of school, but otherwise, she will be home with the baby.

I'm so glad that mama is going to be able to spend so much time with the baby - that's really great. And while you didn't know what was wrong, you knew something was and pushed to get it investigated. You had a huge roll in getting that child appropriate treatment.


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## Bluegoat (Nov 30, 2008)

oops, didn't mean to post


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## just_lily (Feb 29, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nextcommercial* 
Aww... Dad just called to see if I could keep the older sibling later tonight.

She is diabetic.

Have you ever heard of a diabetic infant? I thought diabetes didn't show up until age six or seven YEARS, not months.

I'm so sad for them.

It is happening more and more frequently, and there appears to be a causal link to the Hib vaccine.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=1116914

Poor baby.


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## AutumnMama (Jan 2, 2004)

So glad they figured it out! I really hope she is planning on reporting that Dr!


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## veganone (May 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *just_lily* 
It is happening more and more frequently, and there appears to be a causal link to the Hib vaccine.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=1116914

Poor baby.


Thank you for that link. So scary!


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## sweetcheeks (May 21, 2005)

I'm so glad they got her in b/c when I read the initial post, diabetes is what crossed my mind. One of my closest friend's daughter was diagnosed w/Type 1 at 18 months and she was telling me about her DD's symptoms before diagnosis and one was the shaking and it getting better after eating. They'll likely have quite a few rough moments with the baby but just tell them to use all the resources available to them at their hospital and to also seek out other families in the area with diabetic children. It's really helped my friend have people around who "get" it.


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## Greenmama2AJ (Jan 10, 2008)

So glad the baby got treatment!

That link about the Hib vaccine is scary!!


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## Biscuits & Gravy (Jul 17, 2008)

You deserve a pat on the back for knowing something was not right, trusting your gut, and supporting the parents in seeking help. Not all daycare providers are like that. I'm sure the parents are very grateful.


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## wednesday (Apr 26, 2004)

Glad to hear the baby got an appropriate diagnosis, unfortunate though that diagnosis is.

Good for you for insisting on the doctor visit! You and other child care providers should not hesitate! There have been several times with both my kids that a doctor has minimized my concerns, then when I have said "The daycare teacher says this is not normal" all of a sudden the doctor takes you seriously.


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## Cherry Alive (Mar 11, 2007)

Holy moly! I had been following this thread.

Regardless of what you thought the cause was, you probably saved that little baby's life by being so insistent. I really hope the mom reports the doctor. Where his lack of actions so blatantly could have cause permanent harm or death to a child, hopefully he should be disciplined.


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## 2pinks (Dec 20, 2007)

I don't want to sound condescending but you really should be proud of yourself for being so persistent. You knew something wasn't right and i'm sure mom did too but b/c of the "doctors are Gods and can do no wrong" complex that permeates this society, she probably was made to feel silly or overprotective and was sent away with a pat on the head.









I'm glad that they have figured out what is wrong with her lo before any real damage occured. I'm also glad that she is going to be home with the baby this year.


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