# Please, please, please: HELP!!!! we're desperate here, close to CIO



## Mama Rana (Aug 18, 2004)

DS is now 6 months old. I've posted about him before. Instead of getting better, things seem to be getting worse. To get him to sleep I have to nurse him. But then it's a job to put him down (we put him in the crib until we go to bed because I'm not 100% comfy with him being in our bed alone). But invariably he wakes up 2-3 times before we are ready for bed. usually we are able to get him back to sleep, but it makes it hard for us to do the things we need to do in the evening, and forget having time alone. Then at night, he sleeps next to me. he wakes frequently. Sometimes to eat, and I'm ok with that; I understand that being breastfed he's going to need to eat at night, but he wakes up no fewer than every 2 hours, many nights it's every hour. I've tried dressing him warmer and less bundled. I've tried moving further from him and closer to him. I've tried letting him make a few noises to see if he'll resettle and I've tried jumping at the first sign of movement to help ease him back to sleep before he needs the nipple. I've tried fewer naps during the day and more.

And speaking of naps, let's talk about them. He falls asleep nursing, but if I try to put him down he wakes up. And then he won't go back to sleep, so he's grumpy. He _needs_ to nap so I usually end up pinned down for 3-4 hours a day.

I just can't do this any more. I'm feeling resentful. I love my son, but I feel like a human bed and pacifier rolled into one. I became a parent to love my child, but the real world hasn't gone away. I still need to pay bills, do laundry, do dishes, make meals....I'm not talking about keeping my house meticulous, just livable. My husband works long hours so I can stay home, and he takes care of the bigger chores like the yard, vacuuming, etc.

I need help. I don't like to just let him cry, but I'm *this* close because something has to change. This is no longer a phase cuz it's been going on for MONTHS. There's got to be a middle ground between CIO and having him attached to my boob 24/7, but I can't find it. I read NCSS but nothing in there was particularly helpful. We have a bedtime routine. I've read Dr. Sears' list of causes of night wakings, but nothing stands out.

What else can I do????

(please, I need help. I'm beyond trying to "enjoy it while it lasts". I need to find a way to help DS sleep before we all lose our minds. I'm near tears here, cuz he's awake again.


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## annab (Mar 25, 2003)

He is only six months old. Don't be so hard on him or yourself. You might be expecting too much.

I would strongly recommend the book, The No Cry Sleep Solution. She has wonderful tips for co-sleeping, breastfeeding babies. Every two hours does seem like a lot, but he may just be needing to check in to make sure you are still near. Again, he is only six months. While he is probably making incredible leaps and advances developmentally, he is still very needy and very young. NCSS will be able to help you find a middle ground. I cannot imagine letting a child of mine, at any age, cry alone and scared. And you don't have to. NCSS helped us find ways to help him learn to sleep on his own.

It is NOT a quick fix. It takes patience and repetition, but it is so worth it. Part of the program involves keeping sleep journals. I promise that in two or three weeks, you will see a huge difference in the number of minutes that you are awake each night.

On another note, by using this book, we also were able to determine that our son had a dairy allergy that was causing him to wake. Once we realized how far out of the norm our son's behavior was, we knew we needed to start looking at other reasons besides just habituation.

Goodluck and restful nights!


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## apmama (Jul 22, 2004)

I want you to know that you aren't alone. It sounds like you've been blessed with a high need/ spirited baby. I'd recommend The Spirited CHild, in particular the section on sleep. I've been through 9 years of this kind of sleep, I'd like to tell you it's going to change tomorrow and you'll get some rest, but I'd be lying. My new baby James cannot be put down, maybe for his first morning nap, otherwise he is in arms all day and cosleeps all night. THis is just life right now. I carry him in the sling so that I can do my other responsibilities. I know it isn't easy, believe me I know! But I also know listening to him scream for my help (which is what he's asking for when he's alone, help, because he can't figure this world out) would be far harder than lugging him around all day. I say I've done this for 9 years because that's how old my oldest is. It isn't going to be this hard forever, but it may be years before he is comfortable alone. THis is just how they are wired, they need us so much. I remember clearly how hard this was to accept with my first. I can remember crying to my dh and friends that I just wanted to put her down for even one nap! Now she's a perfectly happy healthy almost 9 year old who has slept wonderfully by herself for atleast 4 years now. And she's sensitive enough to know mommy needs to carry James because babies deserve it! That is the goal right? Kids who come out of this sensitive to the needs of others and strong and independent. Your sweet son will get there someday! Just give him and yourself some time. Will he sleep in your husbands arms or a family friend or relatives? THen you could have some breaks without sacrificing that trust you've worked so hard to build. Good luck, I am sorry, I do know how this feels. It is much easier if you decide to expect very little, then you won't be disappointed and resentful.


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## loving-my-babies (Apr 2, 2004)

I agree that you are pushing yourself too hard. My son is almost 8 months old and he nurses and wakes constantly. I know this is no real advice, but it does pass! My dd was even worse and now at 3 1/2 she sleeps alone, in her bed, in her room!!

good luck!


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## Meli65 (Apr 29, 2002)

I feel for you, I really do! Ds was exactly the same way -- he wouldn't sleep anywhere but on someone's lap or in bed with us for the longest time (and certainly when he was six months old). We just dealt with it -- I honestly did think at the time that there would come a day when he wouldn't want to sit on my lap and to try and enjoy it. The sling helps.

I distinctly remember the first day when I was able to nurse him to sleep and then leave him in bed while I left the room -- it was fantastic! I didn't know what to do with myself. (He was just a little older than your ds is now -- hang in there!)

Sleeping through the night was harder. We used the No-Cry Sleep Solution to great effect when he was 15 months old and I just couldn't take it anymore-- it really worked for us, with no crying!

Believe me, everyone on this list knows how you feel. It is awful to be so sleep-deprived and to feel like never have time to yourself. It really will pass and before you know it you will be offering the same advice to someone else.


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## yequanamama (Aug 30, 2002)

You poor mama! I know EXACTLY how you feel! I think apmama's right - you've got a high-need/spirited baby there. In addition to 'Raising Your Spirited Child', I'd recommend glancing through 'The Fussy Baby Book' (Dr. Sears). It helps you feel good about some of the inevitables associated with high-need babies and children, and has some suggestions specific to that type of child.

Nonetheless, it sounds like you need help ASAP, not in a few days when you can get to the library. If I were you, I'd find a way to set up a safe arrangement on your bed so you CAN nurse him to sleep there and sneak away. Or on the floor somewhere. That's what saved me with my spirited #1 (who still needs me to lie with her while she falls asleep!







) She too would wake up 1-2 times before I came to bed, but with her in my bed, I'd just lie down and nurse her and then get back up (not that it was always quick and easy, but more so than if picking her up and putting her back down had been involved.)

And it sounds like you could use a regular break - like an hour to take a walk while dh cares for ds, or to go to the store or library or WHEREVER while someone you trust cares for him. You can love you son and still acknowledge you need for a little space and self time. Figure out what you need and how you can get it, and give it a try. Life is a series of trade-offs, and while he's obviously too little for you to take a day-trip, he's not too little to be cared for by someone you trust for a short period of time while you get to BREATHE.

Hang in there! You'll find a way to get through this, and without having to leave your little babe wondering why his mama abondoned him. Be willing to adjust your expectations a bit, and you'll make it work for all of you.


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## yequanamama (Aug 30, 2002)

Oh yeah! And I also just let her sleep on me in the sling for many naps. Of course, that really only works if baby's not too big!


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## The Lucky One (Oct 31, 2002)

Ok, take a deep breath and don't let that baby cry!

My 5 month old is much the same way in the fact that he is a very frequent waker and is not a self soother at all. What I do at bedtime, is nurse him down on our couch with our cushions removed. This is where he sleeps until I move him to the family bed when I'm ready for bed. The couch is pretty deep with all the cushions off, so I'm not worried about him rolling off. Plus, I'm always in the same room, so if he stirs I go to him immediately. Can you put your mattresses on the floor that way you can feel safe about leaving him in the family bed without you? Or come up with another safe spot that you can nurse him down in, like make a nap corner in a safe warm spot on the floor? Just like your ds, he wakes 3-4 times between the time I put him down and the time we go to bed, but since I'm close and nurse him immediately, he goes right back to sleep.

Now, about the napping, ds is a pretty good napper. One thing I have found is that if I wait until he is in a deep sleep he is actually _harder_ to transition to another spot. What I do is nurse him down while rocking him and then while he's still flutter sucking (but done eating), I unlatch him and put him in the swing. So far he has taken all of his naps in the swing, I think he needs the movement to help him stay asleep.

Now's the part you don't want to hear. You might be right, this might not be just a stage. Some kids sleep great from birth and others don't. Both of mine have been very restless sleepers and my almost 3 year old still doesn't sleep through the night most nights. I *know* how trying it is, but don't give up on the ap approach. I also understand that the real world still exists for you, but I promise that this time will seem short in retrospect. Heck, I wish I could hold ds2 through his naps, but ds1 won't allow that..lol.

Good luck and I hope things get better!


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## stirringleaf (Mar 16, 2002)

i came to post a similar woe, but my DS is 2 1/2 !!!! he has been a frequesnt night waker since birth. some nights are better than others, but he can still wake every 2 hours pretty often when he wants to. i have wanted to give up a million times but glad i didnt.

for a baby that little, i agree about finding a way to nurse him to sleep on a blanket on the floor or put your mattress on the floor. learning how to get your nipple out of the babys mouth when sleeping is an aquired skill with these wakey babes! but once you learn a trick to it, you CAN slip away. my guy still wont sleep without nursing, and there is a whole routine of slipping my nipple out a millimeter at a time, and i think i didnt get the hang of it till about 7- 9 mos old.

also, some nights can your DH drive him to sleep in the car? then he could bring baby in in the carseat and let him sleep like that in his room till the next waking. just getting out of one nursing session would do me wonders sometimes.

same with naps. take walks, then roll the stroller into the house. this "body" break may seem minor, but it can be SO refreshing, it is worth a try.

and the sling idea is not a bad one either, becasue maybe he will fall asleep and you can slip sling and baby off onto a baby-safe bed. the crib might be hindering you right now and you might get more of a break if you can lay him in a bed/floor for ideas like this one.


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## stafl (Jul 1, 2002)

definitely get a copy of _Raising Your Spirited Child_. In the meantime, try slinging your baby, and/or nurse laying down and either sleep there with him or try to sneak out of bed. Get your DH to help more with the house and stuff. Yeah, he's working long hours, but so are you!! A high-needs baby means you are on the clock 24/7 with no days off. DH needs to step to the plate and help you out or you will go nuts. I know, I was there with my firstborn. Focus your energy on the baby, and forget the chores!
AP is the only way to go with a baby like yours. I tried the usual advice with my DD and none of it worked. Actually, it all backfired on me and made everything worse!

now, take a deep breath. make sure you get a break from being a mommy, even if it's just one hour while you go shopping and DH watches the baby. Realize that six months is not that long, it just seems like it has been forever!

going back and re-reading your OP, I'd suggest not trying to put baby to bed until you are ready for sleep. You know, sleep when baby sleeps. If baby falls asleep, and you are sleep deprived, uh, go to bed! Part of his night-wakings might be from being in the crib until you are ready for bed.
Also you might want to look into food or chemical allergies/sensitivities that might be making things worse. In my family, the culprits are dairy and anything with artificial fragrance (soap, shampoo, laundry detergent, lotion, you name it).


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## Mama Rana (Aug 18, 2004)

I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY do not expect my 6 month old son to sleep through the night. I'm not even asking for 4-5 hours (though that would be nice, and he did it a couple times when he was very, very little). I'm just looking for 2, maybe 3 hour stretches, and perhaps for him to let his daddy comfort him to sleep once in a while.

He won't fall asleep in the stroller. We take walks 3 to 4 mornings a week right around the time he starts to get sleepy, and he always waits to get home and nurse to go to sleep. He outgrew his infant car seat 2 months ago so driving him to sleep won't work. I have a hard time nursing in a sling (esp. the right side)--any tips are welcome--and I can't get him into his sling still asleep, so I haven't had much luck with that.

I DID read NCSS. I didn't find it all that relevant to our situation. I'll go read it again.

And other than sleep, he isn't needy or fussy. He's a happy, lovable baby. I'm so blessed I feel guilty complaining. And the fact that I feel like so many people jump down my throat when I suggest we all need more than an hour's sleep at a time or that I need him to go down for a nap once in a while doesn't help. What did pioneer moms do? They couldn't hold their babies all day!

I need to get dinner started (crockpot). I'm sorry I sound so whiny. I just feel like I've tried everything and his sleep hasn't matured since he was a month old. His ped says to just let him cry, but he was getting hysterical last night when DH or I were HOLDING him, I can't just leave him alone in his crib.


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## jacksmama (Sep 19, 2003)

Yup, same here. My ds is 15 mos old and although it has gotten MUCH better, I would still define him as a high needs baby when it comes to nursing and sleep. I would write on this forum in desperation....feeling like I was going out of my mind and scared that I was going to get up one night, lock my son in his room and let him cry it out until morning - while I slept. But I never did.

What got me through? The two things that helped me was posting pleas for help here and reading. I swear I read Dr. Sears high need baby section about 6 times. It kept me in an understanding and empathetic mode. I also posted a few desperate posts here when I felt like I just couldn't make it through!

I'll be honest with you, it hasn't been easy and I haven't been perfect. There were a few times when ds KEPT waking up and I freaked out at 3 am and jumped out bed yelling and said to my dh, "I'm done...you have him. #$%&*!" and locked myself in the bathroom to cry or curse. Or times when after nursing ds for an hour I'd sneak out of the bedroom only to have him wake 15 minutes later - and I would just melt down. But like the little engine that could...I just kept plugging on...kept educating myself about babies and how they work....and I have a really, really understanding dh. I used to tell myself that that even though I had no idea what I was doing I would rather make a mistake with my son on the side of kindness.

But I have had people ask me, "If you had another one would you be so "AP" again?" There have been times when I've looked at my sister's kids who go for a nap so easily (It's naptime...go to sleep. And they do!) But I know that the bond between my son and I, the familiarity between our bodies and our hearts SO, SO, SO outweighs him going for a nap easily. Please just keep writing to us at mdc, asking for support, keep reading and just keep looking in your little boys eyes knowing that what you're doing IS affecting him in such a positive way. Comfort yourself in the fact that you being there for him satisfies his soul in such a way, there are no words. I look at people around me and in the news and I think that most of the problems we have in our world today comes from people not being nurtured fully as infants and children.

Hang in there!


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## fiddledebi (Nov 20, 2003)

Oh, your poor mama...I know just how you feel. All the support and warm fuzzies everyone gave you were great, so I'll just offer some possibilities for coping mechanisms (for both of you!):

1. Make a concerted effort to figure out the sling thing. My DD absolutely lived in the sling as an infant. Once she was asleep in there, I could do laundry, dishes, read, tap away on the computer, etc. The key was that she had to fall asleep there, not somewhere else and then be moved there. Here's what I'd try -- put him in the sling in the cradle position on whatever side you're going to nurse him. Sit down in a chair or on the couch and tighten the sling just enough so he can reach your breast. Nurse him to sleep, ease your nipple out of his mouth, and tighten the sling a bit further as you stand up. You may need to stand and sway back and forth a bit as he adjusts to your lap disappearing from under his tush and back, but that may do the trick.

2. If you really want to put him in a crib at night, something that helped us was that while I was nursing her to sleep, DH would put our heating pad on the crib mattress to warm up the spot where she'd be sleeping. When I gave him the signal that she was done, he'd take it off and I'd put her down on the warm spot. It wasn't such a harsh transition from warm mommy to cold sheet if we did it that way.

3. Let your DH take care of him even if it's not DS' first choice. ITA with the poster who suggested having DH take DS for a drive for an hour in the evening. I was hesitant about this as a new mom and didn't do it -- and to be honest, it all turned out fine and now DD loves her daddy -- but it was brutally draining to be DD's only source of comfort. One hour with your DH and DS alone together, done immediately after your DS nurses, will be very restorative for you. Send them to the grocery store, or out on some other errand, and take the time to straighten your living room or throw in some laundry or just be alone in your own house.

Good luck to you!


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## loving-my-babies (Apr 2, 2004)

Kim- I know what you mean about NCSS. It's a lot of solutions, so try whatever you feel will work for you.


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## Mere (Oct 1, 2002)

I hear where you're coming from UUCC mom! I started helping ds learn to sleep in his crib for naps around 4 months because otherwise, naps just weren't happening (dd is too noisy!). I say "learn" because it was definitely not an automatic thing and it has taken a lot of work (I got great advice here, by the way). He sleeps happily there now though, and I have to say that it is sooooo nice to have some down time to either spend with dd alone, clean the house, etc.! Anyhow, I started by making sure he was SO sleepy that he couldn't resist falling asleep. Most of the time, he fell asleep nursing (and still does). Then, *before* he was completely, deeply asleep I would gently lay him down and pat him, rub his back, whatever. In the beginning, he'd wake right up, start fussing, and I'd keep patting/rubbing. WHen the fussing escalated into a crying, then I'd pick him up, rock him, dance around, etc. As soon as he got into that almost asleep stage again, I'd put lay him back down and start all over.

In the beginning, this whole process was pretty time consuming. Even now, a month and a half later, it's not like I can just lay him down wide awake and he'll go to sleep on his own. However, as long as he is sleepy to begin with and in that mostly-asleep stage when I lay him down, he will keep on sleeping.

He's still not a great sleeper by any means; he still wakes up a lot, is awake at 3 AM, etc. but I feel like we're moving in the right direction. It is also wonderful to have my evenings back, as he is usually quite sleepy and ready for bed between 8:00-9:00. If he's ready, it takes no more than 5 minutes to have him happily sleeping away in his crib.

Oh, and a trick I just learned and have been trying out - if you choose to put your ds in a crib or somewhere else before you are ready for bed yourself, try letting him sleep with a shirt that you have worn recently. I've done this for the past few days, and for 3 of the 5 days, ds has actually slept for 4-5 hour stretches! Amazing...I feel like a new woman.

Good luck!


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## Mama Rana (Aug 18, 2004)

ok, mere, so used t-shirt, heating pad, put in crib still awake... i'm listening, your're giving me hope... tell me more about your journey


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## Quillian (Mar 1, 2003)

I invested in a good monitor and nursed my guys down in our bed and then I would leave them. I heard them rustle the sheets if they rolled etc..and never had a situation that became unsafe. I have also heard one can try waking them prior to their typical rousings by about 15 min and that seems to promote a longer period to follow. I think its important for you to get some time for yourself because it is very demanding. Self soothing sounds nice but in reality some of these behaviors sound disturbing to me yet they're classified as common-head banging,rocking,object attachment etc..I certainly can't advice you what to do,I am very much against cio but if you are feeling resentment and its getting worse and you choose this route try the gentler ways and have the crying be in arms rather than alone.

Meg


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## Mama Rana (Aug 18, 2004)

meg, it's funny you should mention self-soothing... sometimes when he nurses to sleep, he hums. i wish i could get him to do it without the nursing


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## Isis (Aug 2, 2004)

My ds is the same as yours. He naps on me and wakes every 2 hours to nurse. My advice? Get over your fear and bring him into your bed!







It's sooo much easier. Trust me!









Also, I try and remind myself... people before things. The house won't fall apart. The laundry can wait until a better time. Invest in a good sling. (mei tai maybe) and get things done that way.

You might try to nurse down in bed and nap with him!


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## Al Dente (Jan 8, 2004)

This probably won't be a popular suggestion around here...but have you tried starting cereal or something like that? Ds was the same as yours, and it just got worse and worse. I was holding off, holding off, on solids...hated the idea, didn't want to do it. One night I got 1.5 hours of sleep because he was so fussy/grumpy/hungry. So the next day I bought some oatmeal cereal and fed him about 4T for breakfast. I'm not going to tell you that our sleep problems are all fixed, but he has slept MUCH better on average, and longer as well, since we started. HTH

Rachel


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## Mama Rana (Aug 18, 2004)

AidensMommy--except for the first couple hours, he is in my bed.

Rachel--we have started him on a litte rice cereal. he's not terribly interested, especially in the eve. I'm going to kepp introducing a few things slowly, but i'm not depending on that to solve our probs.

well we used the heating pad to warm up the bed, his blanket and one of my shirts. I nursed hm to sleep, summoned DH who helped me get ds in bed and tucked in, simple as pie. not 10 mins later ds was wide awake. dh went up to him and i think they both fell asleep in the rocking chair--i'm off to check on them now. *sigh*


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

My kids were all light sleepers too. I threw out the crib after #1. I just nursed them all to sleep in the bed and then tucked them in tight and put a pillow(s) up against them firmly (obviously not by their face or anything). This keeps pressure on their body like when they're being held so they're able to sleep better. When you unlatch him from the breast and you unsuction him with your finger in his lips put some pressure on his lower lip/upper chin area and very quietly and carefully try to leave him there on your bed. When they're little I kept pillows along the sides of the bed in case they rolled and checked on them frequently. I also kept mine sleeping on the livingroom couch with me until I went to bed.

Does he sleep on his tummy? This is the ONLY way my babies could sleep. I mean the ONLY way. Many mamas here do not believe that tummy sleeping has much of anything to do with SIDS really. I'm one of those.

Get in the habit of unlatching him right after a night feed so he doesn't do the human/boob pacifier all night long thing.

Definatley use the sling more. Learn to wear him on your back in it. You'll be able to get way more done. Especially with my third, if I didn't wear him in a sling all day when he was younger we never would've eaten and the house never would've been clean. I'd recommend a sling with a Maya Wrap shoulder as it distributes the weight nicely. If you need more help with sling positions try a slingmaker, a sling class or someone at an LLL mtg.

Good luck. I hope you can get some sleep soon.


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## Mere (Oct 1, 2002)

Hang in there! Remember that if you really want to get him to sleep on his own somewhere, it's probably going to be a process. It was for ds. The first couple of days I would spend anywhere from 30-60 minutes getting him to sleep, only to have him take a half hour nap! He did wake up a lot in the beginning too, but I just stuck with it and kept rocking him back to semi-sleep and putting him down again...and again and again. You have to be persistent and consistent!


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## CartersMomma (Jan 4, 2002)

Hey, just wanted to let you know, I've been there too, TWICE!

Here are a few things I've done to cope this time around....

Forget the crib. I'd spend time getting her to sleep, lay her down, boom! A few minutes later, awake. I hate that!!!!! We finally packed it away, as I felt that it "taunted" me, "put her in here and let her cry, it will solve all of your problems". It won't.

Call me weird, but.....My baby girl gets put in her vibrating bouncy seat in the dark basement bathroom with the fan on (I use a baby monitor) for naps and while I"m doing other things in the evening (she too wakes up every 30-45 mins till I go to bed). I am hanging out in the basement, thats where our family room/laundry/computer/playroom is, so it's easy for me to run in, pick her up and nurse her back to sleep again, then put her down and continue on. I wouldn't leave her up in the fam bed, since our 3 1/2 year old is up there sleeping. I've done this from birth til recently, and she's 9 months. Then I'd take her to bed with me and nurse all night. Sometimes every hour, sometimes every three. She goes in phases.

As of the last week or so, we put our mattresses on the floor so that I can leave her in the family bed. I've been nursing her down in there for naps, and her sleep seems to be improving. For her afternoon nap, she'll usually wake up after 1/2 hour and I'll RUN in and nurse her back to sleep quick, and then she'll sleep another hour, maybe hour and a half. A MIRACLE!









From birth til about 7 months, I used some of Harvey Karps methods from Happiest Baby on the BLock (white noise, swaddling) and they helped.

She also sleeps on her tummy, since about 4 months.

Hang in there. It is such a hard time, I know. But don't do something you will regret forever. I know it sounds trite, but IT REALLY WILL PASS. Try to get some extra help in the meantime.


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## Jaz_Trio (Oct 16, 2004)

I just wanted to say, I am right there with you...only my son is 11 months old. He is a VERY High Spirited child, and fussy....but he is such a joy, when you do what he wants you to!







He still will not really 'lay' down for naps, only if I am laying down, and he will not sleep in a crib....something about it, he has to at night be sleeping in my bed inorder to sleep at all....

I really have no advice but wanted to say I am right there with you....though he does sleep better at night now, he still wakes up 6 to 8 times a night!

Good luck, and I definatly would recommend both books stated here!
Jenn


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## fiddledebi (Nov 20, 2003)

UUCCMom, how was last night? Did DH manage to get DS to sleep?


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## Mama Rana (Aug 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fiddledebi*
UUCCMom, how was last night? Did DH manage to get DS to sleep?


well, I was right, they were both asleep. I woke DH up and we put DS in his crib. He then slept there for about 1.5. then we all went to bed in the family bed. He didn't sleep great. Currently he has a stuffy nose which he breathes in and then coughs. I think he might also be trying to cut more teeth. He is really snotty and fussy today. (and I mean snotty in the sense that his nose is running constantly, not that he's behaving snotty). anyway, I left him in his crib to toss the diapers in the dryer... I need to go get him... Thanks for asking! I'm still looking for the answers. I'm trying to nurse him extra today, thinking maybe he's just not getting enough during the day.


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## Turtle Woman (Aug 29, 2003)

Have you tried putting a pacifier in his mouth after he has nursed himself to sleep? This worked great for DS and I wish I had tried with DD1. I understand that paci's are not an AP thing and they can cause nipple confusion. My son only uses his after he has nursed himself to sleep and when he wakes I take it away and nurse him. As DS got older he started spitting it out during sleep and now sleeps most of the night without it.

In the middle of the night if DS has nursed in the last hour or two I offer the paci first. I have a clock across the room so I look at it every time he wakes. Sometimes he is fine with the paci and others he wants to nurse again. As soon as he fusses after I offer the paci I take it away and tell him milkies so he knows it's coming.

Another thing I did with all my kids is let them sleep in the room where there is the most noise. I leave music on or sometimes the tv. My son takes all his naps on the couch or on a small mat on the floor. Sometimes I have four other kids in the room or a whole family for dinner and he stays asleep. He always knows we're there.

I really feel for you. I tandem nursed my girls and became so depressed and exhausted because I had two who would not let go of my nipple. Especially DD1. I thought I would go insane.

When DS came out sucking his thumb I knew he was another sucker. His thumb did not satisfy him after he nursed to sleep so we tried the paci. I am thankful for that stupid piece of silicone and plastic.

I understand I may get flamed for sharing this advice but I have to because I feel I use the paci very responsibly and it has saved my sanity and sleep deprivation. My son is also able to get good sleep which is also important for little ones. This may not be the solution but I think it's worth a try.


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## Mama Rana (Aug 18, 2004)

we used to use a paci, but i became convinced it was a bad thing and we gradually stopped giving it to him. it never was an absolute crutch, but now he won't take it at all.







even with it he was never a great sleeper. he'd often spit it out once he was asleep, bu then it wouldn't be there if he woke briefly so ... i dunno


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## jstar (Jul 22, 2004)

its hard. my ds wakes a LOT at night right now. and lots of times he isn't hungry just wants to be held

last night he really didn't want to be in his crib so he was in our bed most of the time. he's been solidly in his crib for a couple of months now so i think its the beginnings of separation anxiety

ds is also fighting sleep a lot more lately. i can tell he's tired. he'll be rubbing his eyes and cranky but won't sleep. i have started letting him cry in the crib. i can only take about 4 minutes. if he crys for a little while and i pick him up he'll sometimes nurse to sleep then. or sometimes he won't. its really frustrating when i think he needs to sleep and he is really adamant that he doesn't want to. i've decided i should just let it go and let him stay awake. its the danger of the overtired baby but its less frustrating than sitting there rocking him and rocking him and rocking him


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## Mama Rana (Aug 18, 2004)

My poor little baby is so congested. I tried to put some "little noses" drops in and aspirate out the snot, but the aspirator didn't pull much if anything out and the more I tried the more he hated it. bleh.

So he went down pretty easy. I layed (lied??) him on his side on my shirt. He sleeps on his side a lot in our bed, so I thought I'd give it a try. But I just know this snotty nose is going to cause him to cough and wake up. i was really hoping for some time with hubby since he leaves tomorrow on a business trip.


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## loving-my-babies (Apr 2, 2004)

I'm sorry you're going through this, Kim!








's


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## cchrissyy (Apr 22, 2003)

oh man, I've been there. Lived that routine until 17 months old.
we didn't use a cirb for the evening though- I layed down to nurse him alseep on the floor until I came to bed, and when he woke, I'd run back in there all evening. I know it's a pain- but it beta the firts 12 months of life, where I couldn't sneak away but actually had to hold him for every nap and kepe an arm over him all night. From 12-17 months, I dealt with the disruptionto my evening time. I'm glad it's passed, but it's what was necesary at the time. Obviously, baby #2 just won't be handled the same way, heaven help me.

but at 6 months, I'd expect 4 hour stretches- so although 2 is short it's not that crazy. Have you tired all the no-cry ways to return him to sleep so he's not having to nurse? things like rocking and walking him that your husband can handle? Check for comfy clothing, tempatures, and white nopise to optimize the chances of sleeping longer strteches.


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## apmama (Jul 22, 2004)

Ugh, so sorry to hear he has a cold now, that certainly isn't going to help! I hope your dh being gone on business isn't too hard on all of you, I hate when dh travels. We're still here for you, whatever we can do!! Good luck!!!


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## Mama Rana (Aug 18, 2004)

*sometimes* he'll let one of us walk or rock him back to sleep. but then there's still the challenge of getting onto a sleeping surface. but often he just cries in our arms until i nurse him.

btw, how do ya'll do this: dc is in the family bed, wakes, you know he isn't hungry so you decide to try walking or rocking-->i find it hard to get in and out of the bed WITHOUT DS let alone with him (i sleep in the middle, ds between me and a bedrail). do you rock him sitting up in bed or do you climb out of bed?


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## sheilaames (Oct 20, 2004)

You mentioned that you don't feel comfortable leaving him in your bed alone. Is it because he might roll off? When my son, was able to move around we lowered the bed to the floor, now if he rolls off, it's only a few inches. When I put my now 8 month old to sleep, I nurse him to sleep and when he seems to be in a deep sleep, I slowly pull away, and it gives me time to do my house chores. I also use a baby monitor so that when he awakens, I can be there when he needs me. Hope this helps.


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## Galatea (Jun 28, 2004)

When my ds was sick last week and couldn't breathe, he really did better sleeping on his stomach. I know I can't breathe when I am sick if I lay on my back.

Also, I got a bedrail so ds can't fall out of bed so it is much easier to soothe him by just crawling in when he wakes up. The crib just holds his toys.


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## jill393 (Sep 22, 2004)

Just a thought here, and maybe it has been mentioned, but what about slinging the baby? It would help you around the house, that's for sure.


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## eminer (Jan 21, 2003)

There is virtually nothing you can't do while carrying a baby, and it is normal for babies to need physical contact virtually 24/7 at your ds's age. Check out this website: http://www.mamatoto.org -- it details an endless variety of ingenious (and time-honored) ways to tie your baby to your body with cheap cloths you have around your house or can get in your neighborhood. Actually, housework is one of the best things to get done while carrying a baby, sleeping or otherwise. Sedentary work can kind of suck, if you get one who doesn't like to sit still, ever (like my dd, when I was in grad school).

You can't personally carry your ds all the time, though, so you need support. Your dh is an important start: Let him be the default in-arms parent, passing ds to you only when absolutely necessary, while he is home. He too can tie ds to his body while mowing the lawn, or whatever (zipping his coat over the carrying cloth, if it's cold). Find a good relative, friend, babysitter, or parents' helper to give you both a break sometimes.

Since you mentioned Dr. Sears, I assume you're following his advice of waiting 20+ minutes, until ds's limbs flop down limply when you lift them, to put him down once he falls asleep. Then, don't put him in the crib! Once you leave the room, it'll take you a little time to get back to him once you realize he's awakened, and then he'll get all woken up and harder to put back to sleep. If you keep him in the room with you, a hand on his back may be all it takes to comfort him when he stirs. Also, it is possible that waking up alone is stressing him out and making him less inclined to sleep. You can put him on a couple of quartered blankets on the floor, moved into whatever room you're working in. You can put him on the furniture near where you and dh are hanging out in the evening. You can put him in a reclining umbrella stroller and roll it around with you. You might notice some surfaces/positions that keep him asleep better than others. For example, a hammock, or side-lying facing something like the back of a not-too-cushiony chair, might help "trick" his cling instincts. 

At night, is your ds not accepting the breast, or are you trying not to offer it unless he seems hungry? It's normal to wake that often (and nurse!) at 6 mo, but not normal if he can't easily get back to sleep. Many books give you the impression that babies are supposed to wake progressively less often, until they are finally sleeping through. This certainly fits the American model of what babyhood is all about, but it's not really true of a lot of babies. There are cycles of greater and lesser frequency, and some babies stay frequent longer than others.

Hope your ds feels better soon and lets you sleep better, too!


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## Mama Rana (Aug 18, 2004)

well he is sleeping very peacefully on my lap. believe it or not we do pretty well with the sling except trying to nurse on the ring side. in fact just today we had lunch with a friend and he nursed to sleep in it. would have been great if they hadn't forgotten my food--by the time i got it he'd woken up! :LOL but for some reason i don't think to use it fot naps: either i don't think he's going to go to sleep, or i need to nurse on the right (ring side), or he's too fussy already and i don't want to frustrate him. i dunno.









sheila--my dh was committed enough to co-sleeping to buy a king bed, but i don't think he's ready to put our mattress on the floor. we do have a bed rail...do you think that would be enough? he doesn't really roll (can but doesn't), but he does scootch.

oh, and most things can be done with ds in the sling, but there is at least one thing that I can't do with him on me
















do ya'll really think it's normal for a 6 month old to only sleep for 1-2 hours at a time? like i said before i don't expect 12 hours straight but 3-4 hours would be nice.

someone asked about offering him the breast -- i usually do, but sometimes he's just nursed and i just want a break. or he's been attached for an hour and i just want to roll over

you all have been great--i apreciate your continued support.


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## rrr (Aug 8, 2003)

hi. please take a minute to read my post in "*desperate, waking every hour..*." there is a link to that post in "*nightwaking solutions*" also. i didn't closely read all the replies to your post, but i didn't see a magnesium recommendation. i would definitely try this for yourself. you will sleep more soundly and feel rested.

may also strongly suggest hooking up with a la leche meeting? you will be able to get good ideas, as well as share your own experience to support someone else.

the more you *prioritize waking hours feedings*, the less baby will nurse at night. *nurse first, food second*. but before you know it, things will change. the magnesium will help, i'm sure of it.

rrr


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## marice (May 6, 2004)

I just wanted you to know that you are not alone. My 6 month old has never slept longer than a 2 hour stretch, well maybe once or twice for 3 hours but I was so shocked she was still sleeping, I didn't get anything done







. And she does the same thing in the evening that if I nurse her down in our bed, she will keep waking up every half hour to hour until I come to bed, then it's every hour and a half to 2 hours waking to nurse. It is so frusterating to me to keep having to get up and put her back to sleep that I have been just nursing her down in the sling around 7:30-8pm when she starts getting fussy, then just wearing her around until 10 or 11 when I go to bed. Of course that involves her waking again cause I can't get her out of the sling without waking up but at least then me and dh can hang out together uninterupted. Granted there are things we can't do together with her in the sling, but I figure someday this will have to pass right, so we will have alone time then.

I wanted to second the Dr. Sears Fussy Baby book, even though my dd is the happiest baby when she is awake, she is never fussy or crying, I think she is difinately high needs in the sleep department. She is incredibly alert and aware and doesn't want to miss out on anything. So while I think it is not normal for a 6 month old to be waking every hour or two in the sense that 95% of all other babies are sleeping better, it is normal for her. I just drink a lot of coffee in the morning, buy myself little treats often and try to get massages every month. Anything to help my sleep deprived sanity make it through another day is ok. And I have read NCSS and a million other sleep books but really they just were stressing me out and making me depressed because my dd sleeps so badly and none of their suggestions worked, now I just am coming to terms with it and I feel a lot more relaxed about the situation. I hope that magnesium supplimentation works for you but I have been taking prenatals, calcium/magnesium, and lots of super B complex for coping skills, and while they haven't affected dd's sleep at all, I think they are helping me deal with it better.

Anyways I just wanted to let you know you are not the only one and I hope both of us can get that magic 3-4 hour stretch someday soon!!!!


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## Mama Rana (Aug 18, 2004)

he's asleep in his sling on my lap. i've been trying to use the sling more today (which was pretty easy since we were out a lot). the only problem: everytime i get up he stirs and roots around. it's hard for me to get things done when he's nursing, even in the sling. *sigh* sometimes i feel like such a poser-mom

anyway, i went out and bought some magnesium--400mg capsules & and a multi. i have those calcium chews. now i just have to remember to take them!!! rrr, will ds be helped by the mag i take?


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