# Desperate. Please help me.



## aloneafraid (Nov 27, 2003)

I don't know what to do and who to ask so I am here. Please help.

I have a new baby. My two year old seems to hate all of this change (rightly so). I cannot nurse my baby without my toddler:

- pulling my hair (while lying down nursing the baby)

- kicking me

- hitting me

- scratching and scaping my face

- lunging to do the same to the baby

If I sit in a chair, my DS (toddler) goes for any body part of mine he can get. And goes for the baby.

We have had three months of this prior to the baby's arrival. We only use GD. Nothing has improved.

I can't nurse standing up but that is the only way to avoid DS' attacks. My husband can only help so much, he has to work. We have no family or friends to help. I can buy help but I don't know where to start.

I feel so angry toward my son. I hate being attacked. I'm scared for my baby. I have yelled 'no! we don't hit!' in the last two days and that is the first time I've ever yelled. So I feel like a pile of crap.

I know that hitting or being rough with him would do no good, I don't want to do that. But I have put him on the ground too hard in anger. I have picked him up to take him to anohter area of the room too rapidly, in anger. I am ashamed.

I don't know how we are going to get through this. My son also is hysterical all night long because he doesn't have the same access to me. We FB, but he can't have all of me. So he rages, sobs, hits things. Everytime the baby wakes, he rages again. It is a nightmare. And exactly what I feared when I knew I was pregnant with #2. All my worst fears are here in the real time.

Please help. My baby needs to nurse as much as she wants and we have some latch issues anyway. I can't keep taking her off the breast to defend her and me.

I'm so sad.


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

First of all, let me say









I'm sorry to hear that things are not going well for you. You sound so desperate and frustrated in your post!!

It sounds as though your son is really, really upset by the arrival of the new baby. He is obviously jealous of the time you need to spend with her, and he's acting out in the only way he knows how.

I see two things that must be done. First, your son needs to express himself in a way that is not so violent and upsetting to all of you. Second, he needs his feelings addressed and dealt with. Perhaps making a "date" to spend some one-on-one time with him more often might be a start.

I know many of the mamas here will be able to give you more detailed advice. I would also highly recommend some books. I understand that "Siblings Without Rivalry" is an excellent book. I haven't read it (though I have read other books by this author and LOVE them), but I'm sure it addresses exactly what you are going through.

Hang in there, mama - we'll get you some help!!!!


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## stormborn (Dec 8, 2001)

I only have one so I'm of no practical help....just wanted to say sorry you are having such a rough time. And some hugs


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## aloneafraid (Nov 27, 2003)

Thank you (crying).

I have read the Without Rivalry book and ITA that my son should not want the baby, not want to share me, be royally pissed off at all of this.

But I am at a loss. The book gives great advice for kids who talk but mine isn't verbal yet. He has a few words but nothing close to what he needs right now. He just points at me with the baby, or when we are nursing and sobs and runs around, hitting things.

I really think I messed up by having kids this close in age. I can't do squat right now, sling or no sling. I'm exhausted as baby still has days and nights switched (no fault of hers, of course). So I stay awake all day with my DS to play and whatever and then all night with baby.

Thanks for the hugs, I need them a lot.

Maybe if I hired someone to play with my son for like, four hours everyday? I dunno. Seems like we just need a nanny.


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

If you can afford a nanny, great! Or you could try a "mother's helper" - a teen or young college student who can come and hang out with you during the day. You will be there, but an extra pair of hands to take the baby while you spend some bonding time with your son, or to entertain your son while you care for baby, might be just what you need!!

I think it's an ideal situation if you can be a SAHM and have a nanny or other helper around.


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## mamabutterfly (Jun 23, 2002)

Oh, honey, how discouraging! I almost cried from your post, too!! Sometimes I wonder if we were meant to have more than one child (not really but you know what I mean...). I don't have too much advice since I also have just one, although when she was a newborn we shared our house with a mom and her 2 year old. Not the same thing I know, but he was violent towards her, and it was scary. Worst episode was when he pushed her stroller off the porch - just I think to see what would happen, not trying to hurt her. It was awful.

It might be that through the "Finding Your tribe" forum here you can get some leads on how to hire some help. (Also once you figure out a few MDC mamas who are in your area, you could send them a PM if you prefer to stay pretty anonymous in your posts). It will help so much to also hear that others have been through the same thing and survived!










It occurred to me that if you had a nanny over, it might giveyour son support, but maybe the greater need right now is to help you out so that you have the maximum amount of time available to him? (Like changing the baby, doing laundry, fixing meals, holding baby between nursing ... then playing a special game with your son while you nurse.) A little period of concentrated TLC time might go a long way?

Hand in there & keep us posted. Hooray to you for loving your little ones so much and trying to do what is best for everyone.









mamabutterfly


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## JeanetteL (Feb 28, 2002)

I'm not speaking from personal experience, as I only have one child, but I know from friends who have had similar experiences that the only real thing that has worked has been setting up one-on-one time for mom and toddler to do their own thing without the baby, and also the same thing for dad and toddler if possible. Perhaps if you were able to hire help you could set it up so that your sitter would be mainly responsible for the baby, and you could have some (semi) alone time with your son.

This is totally off the top of my head, and may not work at all - but do you think it would help if he had a doll (and maybe even a small sling) so he could copy you (make it a game) and nuture his doll, while at the same time learning how to nuture his sibling? This way you'd both be doing something together, "It's time for us to give our babies a bath now" or "lets take our babies for a walk in the sling". You could even extend this to giving him small "jobs" that are his for baby care, perhaps getting you the towels for the baby's bath, or sponging off her feet with help, to make him feel involved with the newest arrival.

Hugs to you, I promise it will get better - I've seen all my friends with more than one child at their wits end, and somehow it always improves with time.

Jeanette


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## Maddysmom01 (Dec 24, 2002)

I've never posted before so I hope that I'm doing this correctly. I felt that I had to respond to your post. I have a 2 1/2 year old dd and a 6th month old ds. I can promise you that it does get better!
When he was first born, I had to nurse him with my leg sticking out so she wouldn't beat on us. She never lashed out at us until he was born. Not only was I mad at her for hurting me and the baby but I felt so guilty for having him since it was obviously hurting her so much.
It just takes time. I just tried to be extra nuturing towards her and encouraged her to snuggle while I nursed. We spent some mom and daughter time alone whenever possible. I asked her to help out with the baby and that seemed to help. We talked a lot about how much I loved her. We also talked about all the things she could do that her baby brother could not do like bike ride.
It took a while but after the first eight weeks or so it got noticably better. Now that he can sit and interact, they play really well together not to say that she doesn't swat him but it doesn't happen too often anymore.
I guess that I wanted to say that It will get better.


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## ekblad9 (Nov 21, 2001)

What if you made the baby's nursing time special time for your 2 year old too. You could have some special things that can only come out when you nurse. Like Play Dough, a special book, a special treat to eat. Things like that. Make a big deal out of it. That kind of distraction worked great for me. Hugs to you. It WILL get better!


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

Please have your son's hearing and sight checked!!!!!!! As a btdt mom I cannot stress enough to have this done with your child. Many of the behaviors that you are describing I had in my child that has mild hearing loss (at the time because of fluid it was modorate).

Have some one review his verbal skills doctors, make sure he is normal.

Give him the words!!! Lable the feelings for him to use.

((((((It gets better, but you have to watch close)))) Make use of bouncy chairs, play pen to keep your younger one safe.

I would agree with the doll idea. Just don't freak if he tramples the doll!!


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## sleeping queen (Nov 10, 2003)

Why wasn't this resolved the three months before the baby came? He probably assumes this is acceptable behaviour since you've allowed this long. Sorry that you have to be dealing with this and a newborn. It takes some of the fun out of a newbaby.


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

It does get better, I promise! Dd wasnt as bad as your son, but I do recall the awful crying fits and her trying to pull the baby off as she nursed. The day she realised that she had to share her nursing was terrible.

I agree, buy help, but not for your son. He'll see it that you're getting rid of him to a stranger. Get someone to take the baby for you, so you can spend time with your ds. Get help with all the house stuff so you're not so tired. Use it sometimes to take a nap - with your son if possible, but not the baby.

Don't give up the baby to the nanny for him, but give the majority of the time to him when you have help, and make it special, even if you don't feel that way!

Have you tried some special things for when you nurse? I got fairly adept at reading to dd#1 while I nursed, I had some special books for the occasion. Other people try a basket of specail toys, but that didnt work for us as dd tantrumed wanting them all the time. But it may work for your ds.

I agree that Siblings is a great book but it doesnt really address this stage.

Believe me, in a year or so, your chlidren will be running aroound playing together and laughing and giggling, and you'll know you did the right thing.


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

I only have one but I know when I was born my sister adored me. I asked my mom how she avoided the conflict about a new baby. She said she told my sister how delicate and fragile I was and that it was very important we (the family) protect the new baby. I am now 33 and my sister still wants to protect me.









Good luck to you!


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## pamelamama (Dec 12, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by sleeping queen_
*Why wasn't this resolved the three months before the baby came?*
 *

Hmmm... Not sure what you're getting at here, SQ! Clearly, our friend has been trying to solve the problem since that time.

*

*Quote:*

He probably assumes this is acceptable behaviour since you've allowed this long.
I'm certain, aloneafraid, that your toddler can see by your response that the behaviour is not acceptable. He's feeling angry and displaced. This puts you in a really rough position, between two babes.

Were you dealing with other behaviour issues before the baby / pregnancy came?

xo pam


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## untomySelf (Apr 13, 2003)

how hard and painful for you all.

Just quickly (and sorry if this has been covered as I havent read all the posts) does ds still nurse? Can he nurse with you and babe? Can he nurse with you alone once babe is asleep? (You could say out loud, ok baby, ds and I are oing to nurse now bc I need to have time with ds bc I miss him) Something like that so he hears he is as important.

Can ds's Dad make himself more available for helping with one on one time? Is there any other mother figure ds adores that can help?

Compassionate mirroring I am sure would help if he is not quite verbal. (By that I mean when he is sad, angry, you mirror the look back with a deep love and understanding acceptance on your face)

best of luck

ps. I think sometimes raised voice and a clear boundary of whats not ok is essential. It doesnt make you bad at all, I think its great modelling. Youre human.


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## aloneafraid (Nov 27, 2003)

Thank you for the helpful hugs and replies. And suggestions. DS doesn't believe this behavior is acceptable, sleeping queen. Not all behaviors exhibited by kids come from their belief that it is acceptable. But I have neither the energy nor desire to debate you, you get enough attention here already.

My husband is helping out, it looks like this will take time. And repitition.

It is still extremely difficult and DS is grabbing at the baby if he gets the chance. So we have to start all over again it seems. But I know that these skills like gentle touching, waiting sometimes, learning to share mom and other things are important for DS' life. I would'nt want to circumvent those life lessons, however painful this is for him. It is probably more painful in the long run if I shelter him from ever having to wait, share, etc. It is so hard on my heart to watch him sob when he can't have all of me. I won't lie about that. He will not nurse except lying down and often I'm doing a variety of positions to help baby get latched on, so DS' nursing is interrupted and that pisses him off. Tandeming isn't going that great. Baby nurses for such long blocks and then must be held to sleep (she is only four days old).

I will post more when I can.


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## dotcommama (Dec 30, 2001)

It really does get better! I have three children and there is always an adjustment period. It's hard on your right now - it's hard on your ds, but just remind yourself that he will adjust. As you said, in the end it's going to be a great life lesson.

I had a very hard time in the beginning with my third ds. Both other boys were very jealous and found ways to get my attention by misbehaving. What I would encourage you to do is not give a lot of attention to tantrums and misbehavior. (I know that's not so easy when the child is trying to hit you and/or dd).

Here is how I would handle it. You need to nurse dd. I would say to ds, "I need to feed the baby - do you want to sit next to us so I can read you a story? (or some other activity you can do while nursing)." This way you are giving him the opportunity to share nice time with you. DS comes up and hits you or the baby. You say, " I understand you feel angry that the baby needs my attention right now. That's okay to feel, but it's no okay to hit. You need to be in your room (or other safe spot he can be without you) for a few mintues until you can control your hand/feet/whatever." Then I would put down the baby, gently pick ds up and put him in the safe spot. That's it. Go back to the baby to nurse. Say no more. Don't lecture him or yell. Don't even sympathize any more. I would ignore the screaming/trantrum whatever he needs to do to release his anger that's okay, but he doesn't need you to play into it. (I don't mean to imply that you are. I just know this is what I was doing orignially b/c I really understood how jealous my kids were feeling that I think I was paying so much attention to them for these feelings and actions that they were then being played up to get my attention - kwim?) Anyway, this is what worked for me.

Maybe that doesn't seem like GD to some, but IMHO the fit is thrown for your benefit - yes your child truly is sad about the baby and wants your attention and he may need to cry and hit things to express that emotion, but if he gets attention for misbehavior (ex. Mom stops nursing the baby to comfort me when I throw a tantrum or hit) you're only going to encourage that behavior.

If ds calms down quickly then I'd let him out and ask again if he wants to read a story while the baby nurses. If he trantrums for a long time I might gently remind him that when he is ready to be gentle and calm he is welcome to join me in a story.

Also a little one-on-one Mommy time goes a long way. I found that my children are much less jealous when I spend some time with them durning the day that is just for them while the baby is sleeping.








This too shall pass!


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## aloneafraid (Nov 27, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Britishmum_
I agree, buy help, but not for your son. He'll see it that you're getting rid of him to a stranger. Get someone to take the baby for you, so you can spend time with your ds. Get help with all the house stuff so you're not so tired. Use it sometimes to take a nap - with your son if possible, but not the baby.

Don't give up the baby to the nanny for him, but give the majority of the time to him when you have help, and make it special, even if you don't feel that way!
I hear what I think you are saying but everything in me wants to be with my five day old newborn and i don't want to watch a 'stranger' hold her. Plus, we are establishing milk supply and getting latch right, i want to nurse her when she is stirring, not get to the late stage of crying or whatever. Not saying the nanny would keep her from me, just saying this time is so brief, I want to hold her and be with her.

Maybe it's hard b/c my DH works from home and he can't get anything done if we are nearby, so we stay in a bedroom for most of the time, with snacks, books, toys, water, videos. I'm supposed to heal and rest from birth but I just don't see how! Anyway, DH is here but not here, kwim? B/c he is working and when my toddler throws a fit or bangs on everything, then DH can't hear the person on the phone and it just doesn't work to have us very close. But I think DS gets bored in the bedroom.

I am trying to give one on one time, read a story, nurse, nap beside him. We are constantly interrupted and he gets angry at that. But I want to nurse the baby and pick her up, etc, not just ignore her b/c I'm lying down with DS and he is just about asleep at the boob.

My DH is willing to buy help but we have reservations about inviting someone into our lives who will (hopefully) bond with our kids and vice versa. We are nervous about interviewing a bunch to find the right fit, since we are already so overwhelmed. I would hate for us to get a nanny only to have to hire a gentler one, or something like that.

I'm scared for the future, I don't think I'm enough for two little ones and I don't know how I'm going to do this. One example: I'm nursing the baby in a chair, DS is playing nearby, he gets hurt on something or gets into something not great, I try to maintain the latch and scoot my sore bum off the chair to go help but then I can't reach him b/c I'm holding the baby nursing so he just cries and I feel helpless but it's like the best latch in the last fifteen minutes and she is gulping and needs the milk so it's awful.

I am so in love with my baby and just want to nurse her and enjoy this time and it's so messed up right now.

On the 'why didn't you wean him/get this straight before baby?' question, I tried everything I knew how to do. He spent more time with DH, he nursed less and less, we bought a lot of books on new siblings and birth, we bought new toys for the postpartum period, we've introduced television after two years of no tv for this special time. We talked about the baby a lot, he knew I had a baby in my tummy, every time we saw a baby, he would lift my shirt to show that i had a baby in my tummy. He knows the word 'baby' and could make the connection between babies on the outside and mine in utero. We talked and showed him gentle touch on dolls, stuffed animals and of course, ourselves. We watched videos of newborns nursing. We talked about how the baby would nurse, cry, sleep.

So we did the best we knew how. Should we have never held him or minimized holding him? I guess. Should he have not been allowed to hold my hair ever for comfort no matter how much he loved it? Should I have taken hours away and left DS with DH? Should DH have put him to bed every night?

I guess so. But we wanted to show these affections to our son and he had a lot of comfort from me.


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

I really believe that having your loved one merely acknowledge how you feel, and show sympathy, goes a LOOOOOONG way to making you feel better. I know this is true for me and my DH, and I believe it's also true for children.

I had an idea last night. How about engaging your son in some role playing games? Get some stuffed toys, dolls, etc and make a mommy, a big brother and a baby. Have your son be the baby and big brother first, and you be the mommy needing to nurse the baby. Don't be at all shocked or angry or corrective of the way he plays it out. Just listen and ask questions "why does the big brother want to hit the baby?" "oh, big brother is MAD at mama!", etc.

After, you could talk about his feelings, and give him things he can do to express his emotions in a less destructive way.

Then you could also have HIM play the mommy.

"Playful parenting" by lawrence cohen.


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## bestjob (Mar 19, 2002)

I think that in some ways the Siblings w/o Rivalry book is for older kids. For a two year old, the reasoning in the book just doesn't work. No matter how much you talk about a baby before it arrives, the truth of the matter is that an older child is no longer the centre of the universe, and it is very hard to accept. One friend likened it to discovering that your husband had decided to bring home a new wife! Kicking, biting and yelling would be my mildest reaction in that kind of situation!

I echo the ideas of giving ds something special to do when dd is nursing. My ds discovered both the wonders of computer games and cartoons on TV when his little brother was born. I am no fan of electronic entertainment, but it gave everyone time to recover from the birth, the nursing problems, and the exhaustion of all the anger.

Another suggestion is to build your ds's relationship with dh when he is around. If your dh is a little more like a favourite uncle than a dad, that might not be a bad thing for awhile. He could take ds out and about and ensure the time includes some fun and otherwise "forbidden" treats, like ice cream at the mall, or something like that. You'd get a break for the whole of Saturday morning, for example, and ds and dh could have some good fun. The important thing is to emphasize that dh thinks ds is very special and wants to have his attention and time so that they can build their relationship. They could register for a parent and tot gymnastics session, or go swimming, or run around at the local park. Note that I am emphasizing things that lead to long naps in the afternoon... you can spin this into almost a whole day of fun for a kid and ease for a mom.

ITA about interviewing nannies when you're not feeling your best. Could you cope with the kids if you had housekeeping help instead of nanny help? I don't care at all how someone does my laundry, but I care a lot about how my children are treated. You could stop cooking and get takeout from a healthy restaurant delivered and someone else could look after your gardening/snow shovelling, etc.

It gets soooo much better very soon. The exhaustion is almost overwhelming, but if you hold onto your beliefs about gentleness and kindness when you can, you will be so proud of yourself and your children as they grow. Do your best, don't beat yourself up if you do make a mistake, and let your children see your love for them both.


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## JeanetteL (Feb 28, 2002)

A million and one hugs - you sound like you are at the end of your rope and who can blame you!

I have no more advice, as the mother of only one I'm waiting for my turn with these issues - but I thought I'd tell you a little story to help you know that this too shall pass.

I was 22 months old when my brother came along - apparently I was none too happy with the interruption to my otherwise perfect life. I'm certian I made my mother's life misearable. In addition to the hundreds of things I probably have not heard about, I've been told (many, many times) that I used to go outside, pick up rocks and throw them into my baby brothers crib when he was sleeping! Yikes! They even took a picture once, to show how close my brother came to harm - there is a rock almost as big as his head lying only a few inches away from it. When he learned to sit up I would wait till he was playing happily, run by, push him over roughly and run away and hide. My mom says she tried everything - and finally in desperation started ignoring me and giving no attention to the incident - to her relief I finally stopped. I'm not sure when my abuse stopped (and I think my brother made it his mission to spend the rest of my childhood getting back at me)  but I am assured that it eventually did, and we have a close and loving (if periodically typically antagonistic) relationship now.

These tales were told throughout my life, but I was never made to feel as if I was a terrible child. To my knowledge, I was never punished for my actions - because my parents understood the motivations and worked with me to get through it. My brother survived (despite the rocks)







and your family will get through it too.

Hugs,
Jeanette


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## MaShroom (Jan 25, 2003)

i have been there and it was no fun. for anyone. my dd is 20 mos older than ds. he was born at home and after a couple of days i found myself alone. sore, tired, wanting to bond with ds and having dd wondering who this squalling lump was and where *her* boobies were. i think i have blocked a lot of that out.

all we did was just camp out in bed or on the living room floor and wait until the adjustment period was over. that was all we could do.

i can't offer anything more than anyone else has and i do think you have done all you can too. i think it is wonderful that you prepared him so well. even if it doesn't seem to be working just yet i do believe it will, just be consistent and patient. you are going to be ok and so will your kids.

it will get better. now my kids are the very best of friends, although ds nailed dd in the head with a truck the other day-did you know scalp woulds bleed profusely?







:

i'll be thinking of you, keep us posted.


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## magnoliablue (Dec 29, 2002)

I read so many great ideas on here, aloneafraid.. I think everyone has thought of them all... I have been in your shoes.. My oldest ds was just 2 when my dd was born... and in the first day she was home he hit her in the face. My first reaction was to hit him back.. kind of like a mother lioness would do to protect her babe.. but thankfully I held back.. I did many of the things from that point on some of the mamas shared.. I had special toys he would play with, little'gifts' if you will... playdough was a big one..many special books..and the one on one time, as much as I could spare. Please know that it will get better mama, and I speak from experience.. now I have three.. and there will be more than enough of you to go around I promise you.. this is new , it has not been more than a few days... and it is very overwhelming... the second baby experience is very different from the first. I was part of a thread on this.. you do not have the freedom you have when it is your first...oh but mama, when they get older.. you will see the magic.. you will see the love between them grow.. and how they share and help one another.. I know it does not help you much now.. but i just want you to hold on and know it WILL get better... and as far as getting help goes.. get help with all of the other things that do not involve you parenting your babes.. laundry,cooking, etc.. one of the greatest things anyone ever did for me, was my LLL group all came over, one after another and brought me full meals, for the first week after my dd was born.. they did not stay.. they peeked at the babe, dropped off the food, and went on their way.. God it was a beautiful gesture. Then you are free to devote your time to your babes.... have faith.. it will get better mama... Blessings to you.


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## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

aloneafraid









I so feel for you. I have been in tears more times than I can count over the last few months because of this very thing. My ds is a little older than yours (2.5) but he is so very attached to me. We are finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel as far as the initial adjustment and ds2 is 11 weeks. There are many times that they are both screaming for me and I cannot deal with both needs at the same time, I just cope the best I can and hope for the best.

What has really helped for us is what has already been mentioned. I try to pay as much one-on-one attention as possible to ds1, just noticing the little things about him, playing silly games with him that I can do while tending to ds2 (like "where's your belly button, you lost it" and then asking him if its on his toe, elbow, etc or something). I also lay them side by side and dress them together, all socks, one shirt 2 shirts, etc. Anything that can involve both of them. I also am VERY careful about the language I use, I never refer to him as a big boy, big or older brother, or big kid nor do I refer to ds2 as the baby, little or baby brother, etc. I also talk to him about how he is still my wonderful little boy.

Another thing that really helps is that I have preserved bedtime as our special time together. Ds2 stays with daddy while I nurse ds1 to sleep. It is the 1 thing his never has to share with ds2. As for ds2, I started a nightime ritual of bathtime with mama, a special song together, smiles and giggles, then nursing together on the couch (where he sleeps until dh and I go to bed as ds1 in in our family bed too). I do this after ds1 is already asleep so that I have that special time with him too.

It has been a rough transition, but the extra attention for ds1 has made such a difference already. He is really starting to enjoy his brother and has been much more calm. It will get better









Laurie


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## Bearsmama (Aug 10, 2002)

aloneafraid-









So many wise, BTDT mamas here to help...Thinking of you...


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## sleeping queen (Nov 10, 2003)

Jeanette, loved your story.

Aloneafraid, maybe if you let him help some with the baby, like ask him to hand you the lotion, hand you diaper, pick out a blanket, whatever he might be able to do and them tell him what a nice brother he is being.

Pam, we're past any major behavior issues with my oldest. She was an only child for 10 1/2 years, so she had to do some major adusting sharing mom with twin babies that take up lots of moms time.


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## Jazmommie (Nov 19, 2001)

The only thing I can think of that has not been offered (unless I missed it)is to learn/teach a few signs so he can express his feelings.
Hope it is getting better.


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## pamelamama (Dec 12, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by sleeping queen_
*
Pam, we're past any major behavior issues with my oldest. She was an only child for 10 1/2 years, so she had to do some major adusting sharing mom with twin babies that take up lots of moms time.*
Laura - I was asking the original poster, sorry for confusion!


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## coriy (Nov 3, 2003)

Oh my heart goes out to you and your sweet new family!
A couple things:
5 days in not that long! The adjustment period will take a little while. During this time - get some help! Think in terms of needs.
YOU need to sleep, feed yr babe, care for yr postpartum bod, and stay connected w/ yr boy. HIRE SOMEONE TO DO EVERYTHING ELSE! (cooking, cleaning, shopping...)
BABE needs to bf, cling to mama and not get clobbered!
DS needs to know babe is not a threat to his bond w/ you, and he needs more practical help w/ daily routine than you can probably give right now. He also needs help establishing his new role in the family - moving from center of the universe to big brother extrordinairre. I would try expecting him to help you a little bit. "Get mama a diaper please," that kind of stuff. He's at that age where they're just starting to really dig being helpers. That mighty feeling may help him shift into a new role.
Lastly, keep in mind that ds is just around the corner from a massive brain growth spurt that will usher in a whole host of new abilities, including a drive more autonomy and a movement away from mom as matrix to world as matrix. Dh will soon be his link to the life beyond the boob.
Til then, take good care of yrself and know that very soon, when yr kids are thick as thieves you'll be glad they're so close in age.
Big Love,
Coriy


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## indiegirl (Apr 15, 2002)

I second the poster who suggested getting his hearing checked out! When my second dd was born, my older dd went pretty wild and her tantrums (which were pretty bad before the baby), got terribly worse.

I yelled, and I mean YELLED at my older dd for the first time when baby was less than a week old. She just looked at me like I had broken her heart









Turns out, she's got a moderate hearing loss. She was so frustrated, sad a mad but couldn't figure out how to tell us.

It may not be the case with your son, but it never hurts to check. Three in 1,000 have some sort of hearing imparement. Most of them are undiagnosed. Even a mild loss can cause serious implications.


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## Terion (Nov 28, 2003)

I only have one baby right now, but watched a friend go thru something like this with her ds when dd was born, so she would make a big deal about how he was the big brother and she really needed him to help teach the baby how to nurse--she would say things like "look she doesn't know how to, it's so good you know how to, how will we teach her?", and she would tandum nurse them both together and let him pick the breast he wanted or the one to give the baby, she also let him pick the clothes to put on the baby toys to show her etc, made him really a part of the baby...it wasn't long and he was really protecting the baby, it became "his baby"
hang in there it will get better
good luck


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## mammastar (Nov 5, 2002)

Gosh, I can't believe your new little one is still so wee, and you and your two kids are stuck more or less in one room all day!!! I understand your husband works from home, but if in order for him to do so, his wife and kids have to live under those conditions, I really urge the two of you to talk about how you could organize things differently. How much sense does it make that he can afford to pay for a nanny for you, but expects a family of three to basically live in one room? Priorities, anyone? I absolutely understand you and your son going squirrelly...

Depending on what kind of work he does, maybe he could start early in the morning, take a long midday break to be with you guys, and work again in the evening when your son is in bed? I work from home sometimes, and my husband is a stay-at-home dad, and that's what I do so that I don't 'take over' the house and prevent them from enjoying the use of it while I'm working.

Also, when you're feeling more healed from the birth (I was still sooo sore when my daughter was 5 days old - you're amazing!!), can you look for a playgroup that you can take both children to? Good for the older one to have other kids to play with, you to have other parents to talk to, the baby to have things to look at.

Please, please be alert for signs of post-partum depression, and don't be afraid to seek help and support from those around you. Sheila Kitzinger has written some really insightful stuff about post-partum depression that relates it very strongly to feeling 'alone and afraid,' and not having sufficient familial and societal support - basically, depression is a logical reaction.

Hugs.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

i agree woth the previous poster - my two are 2.5 years apart, and we had some of these issues as well. one of the most important things was keeping ds active and entertained. i can't imagine trying to do that in one room - it was hard enough with a whole apartment. i've always had a lot of problems with ds waking dd up (on purpose) and i think it would be tons worse if we were all stuck together that close. i think you and dh need to figure out a plan that lets you have more access to the rest of the house. maybe set up his office in the bedroom, so you can use the rest of the house? set up a pallet in the living roon for the kids to nap on?

believe me, i feel for you. i remeber feelign so much anger towards ds in the beginning for tryign to interfere with dd - sometimes it was so hard to remember or figure out what to do about the fact that he was angry too, and had a bigger right to be than i did. there were so many times that i felt like a horrible mother - believe me, it does get better.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

How frustrating. I agree -- hang in there and it will get better! Also, if you have the luxury, definitely hire help for the rest of the house!

My son was a bit older when my daughter was born, and hadn't nursed in a long time, so we had fewer issues and he wasn't violent, just naughty. He spend the first month or so peeing in the corner each time I nursed the baby. I finally decided that he could watch TV or a video while I nursed. The 30 minutes was about the right time (I did let him finish the show if we finished first) and it gave him something to do while I was busy. Not the answer that everyone here would be comfortable with, but its what worked for me!


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## Clarity (Nov 19, 2001)

the camping in the living room suggestion one poster mentioned combined with the WAHDH situation...could you get a small futon and set up daytime camp in the main living area of your house, and put your dh in a corner of the bedroom or other more contained space. It might work better for you.

I hope things are going better for you!


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## canadiyank (Mar 16, 2002)

mammastar wrote my post







but I'd like to emphasize a couple things she said - be on the alert for PPD - I had those desperate feelings after dd was born and it was PPD. It can be treated, but you and dh need to watch for that. Just the way you describe things reminded me of that period in my life.

Also, I would say try to hire a mother's helper. I had one (volunteer) and it helped IMMENSELY. At first it was a relief to have help with my cleaning and dishes but then I looked forward to her company and now we are wonderful friends.









As others have said, is it possible for your dh to do a little less work so he can help a little more? Could you suggest that instead of spending money on help that he work that dollar amount less?







Have you told him how desperate you feel? He needs to know. I know he works hard and has committments, but he needs to realize how you feel and that you NEED his help. It seems hard for me to imagine that he really expects you to be in one room all day with two children while you are still having difficulty getting around. I had a 4th degree episotomy and HECK that hurt - I couldn't sit for over a week, so I hear ya sister.

Also, please don't feel you need to defend yourself to people who would suggest you created this by not punishing your son. This is the situation you have and we are here to support and help you.

You might also want to post in toddlers as I know there's mamas there who have gone through the same thing. Also, check out the PPD forum and keep on the alert for signs of PPD.

And some more







s for you!


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## Kansai Mama (Dec 29, 2002)

When my ds#2 was born I had a lot of help from my mom and dh. My mom stayed w/ us for almost 2 weeks and she did lots of things with ds#1. She took him to the park, played with him, brought him toys and art supplies. She also took him to his pre-school so his routine was maintained. (DS#1 has attended a pre-school that he loves two times a week for 3 or 4 hrs. since he was almost two.) DH was able to take some time off after the birth so he spent time w/ ds#1 in the park, playing ball, taking ds#1 to the bakery to get a "big brother" cake. DH and my mom also cooked.

Once my mom left, I was on my own. DS#1 also did mean things to the baby. I yelled at him. I was furious. Of course, I was ashamed by my reaction but I feel that yelling when your child tries to hit or hits the baby is a normal reaction. Of course, you are going to be upset. In the case w/ my son, after yelling at him a few times he got the message. Don't blame yourself. You are doing the very best you can.

Re: breastfeeding - I nursed ds#2 in the sling and often in the sling standing up while on the go w/ ds#1. This wasn't the ideal situation - it made my back hurt BUT it got my baby fed and allowed me to mother ds#1.

It will get better. hugs to you & your little ones.

Mom of 3 yr old & 7 month old


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## pamelamama (Dec 12, 2002)

ooo... get a wraparound sling like the EllaRoo or Girasol at Peppermint.com. You can wrap your baby to you, very safe, and both hands free. see photos at the site. Why didn't I think of that before. Also, very easy on your back, very comfy.


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## UD_CHICK (Sep 17, 2003)

aloneafraid-

Hugs to you. I'm expecting in March at which time dd will be 19 months. You have made me realize that there is a whole lot more we as a family must prepare for.

My DH also spends a lot of time working at home - for a while he worked exclusively at home - and it took months for us to adjust. It's hard to have someone just down the hall or downstairs, but to know that you can't interrupt them. Many don't understand the difficulties of this situation - even those close to you. My husband is self-employed, so if he doesn't work, he doesn't earn. That means when the baby comes, he can't really take off work. Fortunately I have family relatively nearby and am hoping to lean on them heavily in the first couple of weeks.

I would echo a previous poster's recommendation that you see if your DH can hole up in a room - with a door, while you and the kids get the run of your house.

DD has begun having separation anxiety and lots of tantrums. When I get overwhelmed, I invite my friend with her 18mo to come over (or we go over her house) - this often provides enough distraction for DD - to give my nerves at least a short break. Perhaps, when you're a bit more recovered, you might be able to do something along these lines (or as a previous poster suggested, join a play group).

My thoughts are with you.


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## The Lucky One (Oct 31, 2002)

Hugs to you, my friend, and congrats on your new baby girl.

I've never been in your shoes, so I can't offer any good advice, but I am and will be thinking of you. It will get easier!

lisa


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## Madame Ovary (Nov 19, 2001)

Forgive me if these things have already been said--- I don't have time to read page 2....

#1 Every child I've ever seen behave in such an extreme manner as your ds has turned out to have food allergies. They seem to crop up around 2. For my ds it is soy, for a little boy in our homeschool group it's wheat. My ds just gets really hyperactive and destructive, this other kid gets really mean and violent and screams. Both of them are vastly helped by a controlled diet. I could cite many other examples. My advice is to have your ds tested by a naturopath.

#2 The book that saved my life: Kids, Parents, and Power Struggles, by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka.

#3 A few tips from Raising Your Spirited Child (same author) that helped a lot for my kids at 2 when they couldn't contain their anger: let him squish lots of playdough, let him play in a sink full of water with plastic containers and utensils, put him in the bath with toys, bubbles, color fizzies.... Also (not from the book) let him smear shaving cream all over himself in an empty bathtub. Anything really tactile. Put cornstarch and water in a bowl and let him pat it and squish it. Put cornstarch in a balloon, tie it closed and it makes a good squishing toy that's not messy. Food coloring in lotion can be body/finger paints (check for staining first.) Tactile play helps bring down intensity, squishing something is an acceptable way to physically act out frustration and anger. 2 year olds need to express themselves physically--- their feelings are much, much bigger than their verbal or intellectual capacities.

#4 Try homeopathic remedies for your ds. Chamomilla or a combination remedy for kids would be a good place to start. A naturopath or homeopath could recommend something specific for his personality and physiology. My kids have seen an awful lot of Calms tablets. There are some really good herbal chamomile formulas for kids, and Sleepytime tea might be helpful, too. Try these when you anticipate problems, rather than after they begin.

I hope this helps-- and PLEASE don't be ashamed of loosing your temper! I'm the calmest person on the planet, but my kids are quite challenging. I have yelled, pushed, slammed doors and done other things I'm not proud of, but I am human. So are you. You are doing the best you can with a difficult situation, which many here will never understand. (((((((hugs)))))))


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## SmilesALot (Nov 20, 2001)

Hello fellow-mom!

You are not alone! My ds and dd are 2 yrs and 8 months apart and I had to deal with some hostile reactions from my ds too in the initial weeks. It is tough on the mom who is trying to recover from the birth process and also having strong feelings about both her kids. It is a very normal thing to go through esp. in the initial days. Give yourself a little bit of time and be easy on yourself if you yell at your son when you are on the brink. Try to let go of some ideal visions of motherhood just for this initial phase when the mom is adjusting to handling the needs of 2 babies.

My ds is very very attached to me and self-weaned during the last trimester of my pregnancy He even forgot how to nurse when the baby was born. He still is very attached to me and I did baby him a lot when dd was born. Some help to take care of the house and the baby at times when you don't want to be interrupted if you are having one-on-one time with your son goes a long way to improve the situation.

I got frustrated and yelled at my son too when he would hit his sister on her head. I have even said some mean words at the heat of the moment like wanting him to go away from me. After a few weeks, everyone gets much better with the new situtation (mom, sibling, father and baby) and things look much more enjoyable.

I can understand you wanting to bond with your baby and get her needs met too. It is natural. In my case, I was trying not to get her too attached to me for fear of my son ending up disliking her right away. But my dd figured out who her mommy is in 2 weeks and would go to sleep only with me in the nite. So your baby will bond with you no matter what, Do not worry that you are not taking enough care of her. You are doing your best for the two kids from what i read in your post. My very best wishes to you.

I also smiled when I read that your son would like to hold your hair while falling asleep. Ditto with my ds (he still does that). And we have had some pretty tough nights too when both are sleepy and cranky. My ds did get very upset when he woke up in the middle of the nite and saw me nursing my daughter ( i sit up and nurse since i am not comfortable in the lying down position) instead of being beside him. I just tried to get him to lie down next to me while i nursed and prayed that he would fall asleep! ). We cosleep and my dh got upset too when he saw my ds wake up and throw a fit. By nature's grace, it is much more smoother now.

Give your son lots of hugs and love whenever you can. That will instill in him that he is still very special to you.

I am sharing all this so that you know that there are many of us who were in your shoes and after a few months manage to smile and enjoy both the kids! Hang on and do your best.

Peace and Love!


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## french*girl (Jan 12, 2002)

I don't know if this was mentioned... but my daughter was helped by the homeopathic remedy Hyocyamus Niger. I would recommend working with a homeopath for the right dosage. My dd went from trying to hit, choke, yank her sister non-stop every day to being completely loving and protective ALL THE TIME. It is truly a miracle! Occassionally she slips back into the jealousy and we redose her and she'll go for weeks being amazing with her sister. (There are 3.5 years between them)

Good luck!! I also recommend the book or book on tape of "Siblings Without Rivalry".


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## Luma (Nov 21, 2001)

just wanted to say that you sound like such a great mama, very connected and caring about ds's feelings, the babys feelings and your feelings.
I dont have much advise since I also have 1 ds. But maybe your dh could take 1 hour off work and take ds for a big run, some physical activity that will help him use all those energies, and maybe learn a way of letting the steam out. Even if its at lunch time, they could have a picnic or something outdoors.
You really sound like a great mama,


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