# Seven month old just. won't. sleep. EVER!



## NewMomNicole (Nov 10, 2005)

I really really really am reaching the bottom of what I have to give on this. She just won't sleep. She had great sleep habits - often slept through, never awake more then once or twice to eat, three one hour naps a day - unitl about eight weeks ago. And then one night it all just went to hell. She won't stay down, she won't sleep with me, she won't sleep on me, she seems to sleep best in her own room in her own bed, but when the "best" is a 40 minute stretch your life has hit suck bottom.

At first I thought she was teething but the teeth are in (and more are coming, yay), then I thought it was that she's learning to crawl, then I thought maybe it's because she's going to have a growth spurt but as it turns out I just don't care. I just want her to SLEEP.

NCSS has been utterly useless as, ta-da!, we do all those things already and things are just getting progressivly worse. I don't know what to do. She's up at LEAST every hour at night, she only wants to eat twice and the other times it's like I'm offering poop. She won't nap. She's miserable and so am I. If one more person tells me to either "let her cry" or "this too shall pass" I'm go just EXPLODE. I'm trying so hard to work with her and be understanding and loving but I am so tired. My face just aches because my sinuses are messed up but the meds make me sleepy so oh well.

I need a PLAN. I want someone to tell me what to do so she will start sleeping and we can get on with our lives. I can not see this getting any better, it has just gone from bad to worse and that's all I can see coming. I need some HELP and some ANSWERS and I have no idea what to do.

She will NOT sleep with us, hates it. Sleeps too light to sleep in the room with us, every noise wakes her (believe me, no one was sadder than me to move her into her room but I respond just as fast as if she were in our room because I'm "sleeping" - aka sitting on the sofa sobbing - on the sofa right outside her door), there is NO such thing as "putting her down drowsy" and letting her put herself to sleep. She's NEVER EVER in her seven months of life just GONE to sleep. She's not too hot, she's not too cold, she plays in her bed during the day and she's not afraid to be in there. She hates the dark, even in the car, so she has a very small nightlight but hey, she never slept in the dark either so I don't think that's the problem.

I know this is like 99% vent because really, but we are both so so so unhappy and I can only see things getting worse.


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## catgirl1007 (Feb 9, 2005)

I don't have any advice, but I have BTDT. The first year or so with our DD was AWFUL with regard to sleep issues. She did eventually outgrow her refusal to sleep. Our DD went through phases of non-sleep maybe lasting 2-3 weeks at a time during situations you've described (teething, developmental, etc.). I wish I could give you some helpful advice.


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

I don't have any real advice, Im sorry. I also read NCSS and I thought it was a waste of time and money. Im sorry you are so exhausted. I wish I had some good advice for you. I know what its like. DD (10 months) was up between 2am and 6am this morning, then only slept for an hour. (teething sucks!)







She will not nap at all today. I wish I could help you! Lets get together and watch each others babies and then we can sleep in shifts.


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## NewMomNicole (Nov 10, 2005)

Thanks for the sympathy. We really need some help. It's not like my expectations are unreasonable - I'm not expecting to just plop her in a bed three times a day and have her magically put herself to sleep and I don't expect to put her down at 7 pm and not hear from her for 12 hours. I understand that she's still going to eat at night and I'm FINE with that. I just need her to f&#(ing sleep for more than 40 minutes at a time. A person can not live like this. My mom has offered to take her for the night so I get a WHOLE NIGHT of sleep but 1. I would miss her and 2. it just seems so pointless. Getting up with her allll those times is bad but what really gets me is that I can't see an end to it. I don't see a solution.


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## rzberrymom (Feb 10, 2005)

I'm so sorry you're going through this! My DD woke every 2 hours all night long for the first 17 months. Until her teeth all came in, and then she slept through the night nearly right away. Unbelievable. It was the worst 17 months of my life, and I am seriously not sure I could ever have another child because of it. The only thing I can offer is 1) it helped when I got really good at nursing on my side and was sort of drowsy through all the feedings, 2) it helped when I ditched the clock and tried to quit worrying about whether she was still waking every 90 minutes or had we made it past 2 hours, 3) it helped to realize that NCSS might work for some but did not work for my kid (and doesn't seem to work for most kids around here!?), and that it I was going crazy trying all those techniques and then ending up devastated that it wasn't working, 4) it helped when I convinced my DH to take my DD for the first hour every morning, and I could finally sleep soundly (oddly, I think that hour is the main thing that helped me make it through--I looked forward to it so much I could taste it) and 5) I got a really good carrier (an Ergo) so that at LEAST I could get her to take a really good nap.


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## canadiangranola (Oct 1, 2004)

Oh mama...I feel for you. Ds 1 never slept more than 45 mins in a row until he was 18 months, and then only b/c I forced the issue of night weaning b/c I was pregnant and sooo tired.

Vent away.









Do you have help? What if your mom came and stayed with you for a few nights so you could still be there for feedings, but when she woke up and didn't want to eat your mom could help with that so you could sleep? I remember feeling so desperate some nights that I would practically fling (okay...hand over not so gently) ds to dh in tears so as not to throw him against the wall. I remember saying some not so pretty things to ds in the middle of the night when I was too tired to see straight.

Here's what helped me.

Napping when ds napped. All the time, regardless of how much other crap I had to do. At least then I could sleep a bit. And DS napped longer if I napped with him, so it was a double bonus.

Getting time to nap alone, when someone else is responsible for ds. I found myself having a whole different level of sleep (and restfullness) when I knew I was not needing to listen for ds. If I knew someone else loved him and was caring for him, I could sleep really deeply, and even an hour or two of deep sleep can make a world of difference when you are feeling this way. (If it can't be at night, sleep during the day when someone else can take care of her...you won't regret it)

Take time for yourself when you can. Go for coffee and read a book, pick your nose, do whatever it is you need to do to recharge and stay healthy. You need to care for the mommy too







.

Hopefully something shifts soon.

Oh yeah....the thing that was a life saver for me was getting rid of the clock. I tok off my watch, took the clock out of the room.....soemhow if I didn't know i had just resettled him 20 minutes ago, it felt less stressful. I think NCSS is harmful for the reason that it tells us to watch the clock and we start to obsess even more about how much sleep we aren't getting.

Peace mama,
Anno


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## Valian (Oct 16, 2005)

Hugs to you. I'm sorry I don't have any BTDT with a real non-sleeper but Ds has certainly gone through periods of very specific sleep requirements: only on our chests, waking every hour or less, wanting only Dad to rock him in a chair, needing a swaddle, hating a swaddle, okay with background noise, etc. so you could say I have a sleep picky baby.

Talk some more about what you do if you'd like us to help you brainstorm some real ideas. I've read that milk/dairy sensitivities are maybe linked to real frequent night wake-ups. Have you changed your diet at all in recent months?

Without knowing more about what you're doing, my advice would be: Do you have any magic sleep tools like driving in the car that will always put Dc to sleep? If so, I'd pull them out and make sure she gets some solid napping. If this means driving 10min until she falls asleep, napping or reading in the car until she wakes up again and driving for another 10min I'd do it during the day so she gets some solid naptime sleep to help "reset' her sleep clock.

Then, since nothing so far is working I'd go ahead and try some radically different things. Have a bedtime routine? Throw it out. Even if you've tried these things, why not give them another go: a pre-bedtime walk, or bath, or massage, loud white noise, loud soothing music and dancing together, singing, reading, or rocking. Once she's asleep what do you normally do? Change that. Have someone hold her in arms past what would be her first normal wake-up of the night and see what happens. Have the same music playing all night long.

Since she specifically does not want to nurse at night I would enlist 1-2 other people to hold/rock/walk with her when she wakes up at those between nursing times. On bad nights where I'm nursing every hour I nurse, finish, and do an immediate hand off to my partner so I can fit in any little sleep I can. If I'm not sure Ds wants to nurse I'll have Dh get up with him first. When Ds was tiny my Mom spent the night and at 4am when I was just done, she'd rock and hold Ds between nursing sessions so he and I could sleep. She literally sat in my bedroom and rocked him next to the bed.

I don't know if this is any real help. Just know that you've got people rooting for you and ready to listen to your vents.


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## NewMomNicole (Nov 10, 2005)

Thanks so much for all the support. I just feel SOOOOO overwhelmed.

Our big problem, our one problem I think, is that *she no longer knows how to put herself to sleep at the lighter end of her sleep cycle.* I used the bold for other people who skim, like me









This wasn't a problem till teething (I easily rocked or fed her to sleep, she was off till she was hungry again at which time I could easily rock and feed her to sleep and she'd stay down till she was hungry again. She could easily go seven or eight hours and sleep through on many nights)...she would wake up so I would pick her up and rock her back to sleep (what else was I supposed to do?!?) and now she's used to it and can't sleep longer than her sleep cycle (and some nights, not even that long). I honestly don't mind rocking her to sleep. I don't mind feeding her if she's hungry in the night because generally when she's done, she's out, and I can put her down with no problems. She just can't STAY down. I guess *I need advice on how to help her remember how to sleep longer than one cycle of sleep.*

"Patting" her back to sleep is a joke. That way lies screaming. Shusshing or trying to talk her back to sleep, ditto.

What do I do to help her sleep longer than one sleep cycle? Getting her down is not the problem, keeping her down is. HELP?


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## MyNameIsBen (May 24, 2006)

I have no constructive input to add; I just wanted to sympathize. My partner is in the middle of labor now, albeit mild labor, and we have both been anxious about sleep patterns. This sounds like hell. I hope you find a good solution for your family, and then I hope you post what it is!


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## Squeakyneedle (Jul 11, 2005)

Mama, I am so there with you. My 7 month old sleeps...day or night...in precise 45 minute increments. That's his sleep cycle. This is actually sudden for him, because before his first tooth appeared he'd often only wake up once or twice during the night, and take pretty good naps in the day. Once that first tooth tried to rear it's ugly head all his nice pretty sleep habits went to







I'd co-sleep with him while he nursed, then put him back in his bed when he was done and I was awake enough to realize it. He'd sleep for another good stretch, then want to eat again, or get up for the day if it was late enough. Now? He wants to be attached....alllll night long. Last night Dh and I each tried...4 times in a row, baby would be conked in our arms and the second he felt that crib matress under him he'd squirm himself awake and want us again. Finally at 11:30 I said to heck with it, tucked him in bed with me and we both went to sleep. (of course, my boob was in his mouth but at least we were both asleep!)

I just got a book from the library, not NCSS, not Dr. Sears, but essentially the whole thing boiled down to "let your baby cry, it won't kill him." I expect that from Ferber, but I was hoping for something a little more creative (and less heartwrenching). They made it sound so simple and clean. Pat his back and then leave the room...he'll settle?







: And what am I supposed to do about night feedings?

You'd think that a 4th time mom could get her head on straight enough to get her baby to sleep.







It was this hard with my first, but the two middle boys were never this tough. They were those magic children who gradually just slept longer and longer between feedings until it was all night. And would fuss (not scream) for a minute or two when I put them in bed awake. #4 appears to be following in #1's footsteps. And I can't Ferberize another baby. 10 years ago it was the only thing I could find to do. I didn't have the internet and that's all my local library had on sleep. I did the only thing I thought I could (before I threw myself off our second story apartment balcony--it was that bad). I want to fix this before it gets that way again, or before I create a new lovely habit of staying latched on all night. He could be so peaceful, but the second that nipple disappears from between his lips we are all in trouble. I've got a raging sinus infection, and I'm not too sure the baby isn't feeling the effects of it as well, so the past two nights I've sucked under and let him have me all night, just so we can get something resembling sleep accomplished. But we can't do this forever.


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## rzberrymom (Feb 10, 2005)

Quote:

Our big problem, our one problem I think, is that she no longer knows how to put herself to sleep at the lighter end of her sleep cycle.
This was our problem too--DH and I used to go to bed and say "well, see you in 20 minutes." But, I don't think it was that DD forgot how to put herself back to sleep--I think it's more that the pain of the teething makes it just too difficult for some babies to get through that light awakening. I'm probably going to be flamed for this, but I used Tylenol. It helped A LOT. She still woke every 2 hours and I nursed her each time, but that was way better than every 30-45 minutes. Hyland's works just as well for some kiddos, so that's definitely worth a try first.


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## Squeakyneedle (Jul 11, 2005)

I've tried Tylenol for the past 3 nights with Brennan, and it hasn't seemed to help. Although, even though he's waking, he doesn't seem overly miserable, so maybe it is helping him feel a little better. My mom suggested raising the end of his crib mattress slightly...maybe when we put him down at such a flat, no-angle position he doesn't like it. Because it's the moment we lay him in bed that he wakes. (and he sleeps with me with his head on my arm) So, I stuffed an old afghan under one end and it's slightly raised. We'll try that tonight...in addition to the Tylenol because if I'm suffering with a sinus infection I'm betting that it's affecting him as well. He feels a tad warm, so I'd rather give him some and have it not help, then not give it and have him be miserable. Anyway...I'll report back on the raising the mattress idea.

Here's wishing sweet dreams...or any dreams...to everyone!


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## yequanamama (Aug 30, 2002)

Valian already mentioned this, but I think it's worth highlighting. Could it be food sensitivities? 1. Are you eating anything new? 2. At 7 months, you've probably recently started solids?

My ds is dairy & soy intolerant, effective at 2 weeks of age. Before I got the offenders out of my system, he'd sleep for 10 or 20 minutes (this was ON me) and then be awake for a couple of hours or more. This was when he was 3-4 weeks! Once I got dairy & soy out of my system, he slept pretty normally. So it's worth considering.


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## ChiaraRose (Aug 8, 2005)

I have no wisdom to offer, I am in the same situation. My ds is a bit over 6 month and in the last 6-8 weeks it has gotten worse and worse....he used to sleep all night. Nothing helps. Now he is trying to crawl and is teething. Please, let it get better after that. He gets up every 20-60 minutes, at night, during his naps.
I feel for you....
hugs,
Liane


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## mom2PJS (May 25, 2006)

The only thing I have to add besides a quote someone on this board told me... "Teething, it's a design flaw IMO" is DD is about the same age and having the same probs. She had moved to a crib for most of the night at 4.5 months... just fussed and flailed with us and slept better in her bed. At 6 months I got tired of getting up every 45min and tried her in our bed again and at least I could sleep while she nursed. At least she has never teased us with ever sleeping more that 3 hours or so, so I don't know what I'm missing. NCSS stressed me out and coincidentally was when things fell apart.


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

My brainstorming suggestions:

mix it up - do the opposite to everything els you've tried. can't hurt.

food sensitivities - not even new food, could be cumulative, could be in your diet, not his

other medical - get a checkup, including iron level, silent reflux?


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## scoobers (Jun 24, 2005)

Well, I'm not sure I've got much to offer but that.

My son was the worst sleeper. I literally didn't get more than 2 consecutive hrs of sleep until he was 6 mos. old. (Didn't get much better than that for a long time either.) I felt like I'd won the lottery the first time I slept for 3 hrs. I read EVERYTHING from left to right on getting a baby to sleep and was frustrated with all of it. I came to the conclusion that his problem was being able to fall asleep on his own (I nursed him to sleep) but truthfully I never found a miracle solution it just kind of slowly got better. It wasn't until he was about 2.5 that he started sleeping reasonably. I think this is a huge reason why we only have one child. I really couldn't take going through that again. Until you've experience SEVERE sleep deprivation you can't even imagine what it's like. It really makes you crazy. Also, he never woke up EVEN once w/o full on screaming until about that same age. It really wears on you.

He now sleeps in his own bed but I lie down with him until he's asleep. He still wakes at least once a night but he just comes to get me and I go lay back down in his bed...no big deal. Of course, now my sleep pattern seems to be permanently messed up. I have a hard time sleeping more than 5 or 6 hours a night and I frequently wake up in the middle of the night and CAN'T go back to sleep even though I have the option. Sigh, ain't life crazy??

Can your partner (assuming that's your situation) help you out at all? Maybe you could sleep in shifts? I see that your Mom offered to help. Take her up on it...really. One night of good sleep can make a tremendous, if temporary, difference.

Have you tried a binky?







: I know that's a charged issue but every baby I knew who slept great seemed to use one. (My son thought they were E-VIL and would have nothing to do with it and I must've bought 20 different kinds!)

Hope the sleep fairy sends you and your daughter some sleep!


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## *Isra* (Jul 28, 2006)

I came on here looking for advice.. My almost 7 mos. old just started the worst sleep habits so far.. last night from 2-6 he was up every hour, 2,3,4,5,6..then I said whatever and we were both up.. I was crying miserably from lack of sleep.

I too tried NCSS religiously.. I mean I bought the lovey, filled out charts, logs, everything.. I dont like her book or her advice.. its not SOLID.. its not a real step by step approach or how to.. its more of a well, this could work, and try this.. Im like woman give me a SOLID plan already! Im wondering about CIO in arms.. I put DS in the sling, like I always do, but instead of running down the hallway (Im NOT joking, I LITERALLY used to run back and forth) and then bouncing vigorously till he slept, I decided to just gently sway him side to side.. no sweating on my part, but he was in the sling the whole time.. well he cried..no he SCREAMED in high shrills till he fell asleep, Im assuming he wanted me to go running, but I physically cant anymore.. so what about in-arms CIO?..


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## onlyboys (Feb 12, 2004)

We had one of these children.









And, while I can happily tell you that he is 4.5 and sleeps through the night, it's not terribly helpful for you now, while you're in the trenches of sleeplessness.

Here's what we did:

Light didn't come on from bedtime until morning. Period. We had a bathroom light on in the hall, so there was some light, but we didn't ever get out of bed until morning. This meant that we did a lot of playing in bed, or just wandering around the bed, but there was no getting up.

Tanked him up with nursings before bed. I mean, as much nursings as humanly possible. This kid was ready to burst.

Dry topper to the cloth diaper. We used fleece so that he didn't need a change.

When I was too exhausted, my husband took him for a drive in the car. He would often drive through and get a cup of coffee to begin his morning (he has to get up at 5am anyway).

We really were just super tired for those years. It was exhausting, but I can safely say that by acknowledging his needs for those years, I feel we created a very secure sleeper! He's in his own bed, falling asleep on his own for several months now!

Hugs to you!


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Isra**
I came on here looking for advice.. My almost 7 mos. old just started the worst sleep habits so far.. last night from 2-6 he was up every hour, 2,3,4,5,6..then I said whatever and we were both up.. I was crying miserably from lack of sleep.

I too tried NCSS religiously.. I mean I bought the lovey, filled out charts, logs, everything.. I dont like her book or her advice.. its not SOLID.. its not a real step by step approach or how to.. its more of a well, this could work, and try this.. Im like woman give me a SOLID plan already! Im wondering about CIO in arms.. I put DS in the sling, like I always do, but instead of running down the hallway (Im NOT joking, I LITERALLY used to run back and forth) and then bouncing vigorously till he slept, I decided to just gently sway him side to side.. no sweating on my part, but he was in the sling the whole time.. well he cried..no he SCREAMED in high shrills till he fell asleep, Im assuming he wanted me to go running, but I physically cant anymore.. so what about in-arms CIO?..









Thats how I felt about NCSS. Its a bunch of fluff, saying it might work, and if it doesn't, its ok. NO ITS NOT OK!! I wouldn't have bought the book if I was ok with being sleep deprived.







: I understand about the running and bouncing... Until dd was 5 months old, I had to swaddle wrap her, turn on the Turkish March (Beethoven) hold her in the nursing position but not nurse, and forcefully march circles while vigorously bouncing her around the coffee table every evening. What was funny, was dh would be silly and mimic me following me around the table, and then the dogs would follow him! So we had a train marching around. I wish I would have had someone video tape that to show dd when she is much older to give her a laugh! I still have to vigorously bounce her in the same position, but doing it while swaying works now, and I don't have to swaddle wrap her anymore. She is now 10 months and getting up about 2 times a night. One waking is for 10 minutes (to eat) and the other waking is for about an hour. (Not hungry, just being fussy and refusing to sleep)


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## dogmama (May 24, 2005)

I'm in the same boat. DD is 7.5 mos. Until a few weeks ago she generally went to bed okay and slept for 2 hour stretches. Then she learned how to crawl and stand up, and she is way too interested in life to bother sleeping! Nights are long, sometimes she's wide awake at 2am, I'm fried. But I know it will pass. Trite as this may sound, I know this will be a distant memory soon, and I'll miss that little baby. This will happen for you too. Peace.


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## Suzievn (Aug 26, 2006)

My 7 month old baby wont sleep through either. He sleeps for 30 minutes by the clock during the day and is tired all the time. At night it's not too bad, he is asleep usually between 6-7pm and sleeps till 10pm. I will then give him a last feed and he sleeps till about 3am, then he wakes and wants to play for about 2 hours. It's making me so tired and frustrated because he is so tired his eyes roll back in his head but he just wont give in. He is teething, he has 2 bottom teeth and more coming so we give him a bit of paracetomol at night and sometimes when he wakes and teething powders in between. I really have tried everything but this has been happening for about 3 weeks and I'm scared he will make this a habit.


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## mmfoote (Mar 6, 2006)

Just had to write you real quick. I had the same kind of baby in DS1. He would wake up every 45 minutes all night long...We didn't have him in bed with us until he was 8 mos. old and I finally couldn't take getting up 8 times a night! I still can't believe we waited that long! We went through everything - he's too cold,too hot, his teeth hurt, its too noisy, blah, blah, blah.

He's now 2.5 and he still sleeps with us. He doesn't nurse any more and he still doesn't sleep through the night. He gets up every sleep cycle and touches me to make sure I am there. Sometimes its just a light touch, sometimes he's got to have his legs on top of me, sometimes he plays with my hair for half an hour. I realize now looking back, that for DS1, it was all about separation anxiety and still is. He's just a really attached kid and needs the security of me all the time.

You've probably tried these but these are what helped us...

Have you considered trying to co-sleep again?
It definitely feels like I get more sleep co-sleeping (we have 2 sons now, so twice the wake-ups!) than getting up and down all night.

Did you have something to block noise?
One thing that really helped us was having a fan for white noise.

What about light?
We had to completely block out the light because any little thing he sees just wires my son up! Right now we have blackout shades and garbage bags taped to the windows!

Also, I started taking naps with DS1 (not until he was about 10 months old...wish I could do that over again! With two, the chance to nap is rare!!!) and when he woke after 30-45 minutes, I would nurse him or walk him and try to get him to sleep again for another cycle. Sometimes it would work and sometimes it didn't, but at least I felt like I was helping!

There really was no magic trick to getting him to sleep. I just tried to be as sensitive as I could. It's so hard (still is) because there is nothing my DH can do..its all up to me. I try to remind myself that this is helping me grow as a person and be less focused on myself. I try to make it easier on my sons and spend a lot of my evening time reading in bed so that (especially DS1) does not wake up screaming because he can't find me.

I know its not easy, but I think by pushing through, when your daughter gets older, you will feel good about the fact that you were sensitive to her needs and didn't resort to CIO or anything.

Extra hugs to you!


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## NewMomNicole (Nov 10, 2005)

Thanks again for all the advice, so far nothing is working and she has gotten worse. She's sleeping in 30 minute stretches instead of 40 minutes to an hour. She had one three hour stretch at the very beginning last night but she was up every twenty minutes and took 30 to settle after that. Kill me now. She won't eat, isn't interested at ALL. She's asleep pretty much as soon as I pick her up, but she wakes as soon as I put her down...so it's up down up down for half an hour. For the record, holding her doesn't make her sleep any longer. I just don't know what to do.

As for the light...she really panics in the dark. Even in the car at night.

We are considering trying to cosleep again but I don't have a huge amount of hope because she wakes at the slightest noise or movement. But hey, no one will be happier than I if it works.

We do have some noise but it's not outside noise she responds to, it's sounds in the house. I've tried playing various classical (slow, aimed at sleeping) CDs but I'm not sure these don't just irritate her?

Suzievn, I know how you feel - when she first started teething I was so worried that I would cause her to make the night waking a habit and it seems I did. I can't really offer you any advice to that end, but I know the fear.

GooeyRN and Isra - I am so worried that I will spend weeks and weeks using NCSS and just essentially be wasting my time. It seems so fluffy (esp her method for getting them to sleep longer at night. We have been doing what she suggests as Phase One LONG before we bought the book and her nightwaking is more frequent, not less) and vague. I tend to think that those people who have had success would have had the same success had they just waited it out. Like, was it NCSS or time?

Dogmama, I did go through a phase where I could comfort myself by thinking about how this is time with her that I'd've missed if we'd've been asleep and how she won't be little forever but eight weeks in and I'm just not buying it as well as I used to







It's hard to stay positive on Night 8734 of resettling the baby every 45 minutes. I have a lot of nights where I pretty much just rock and sob and rock and sob because I can't see this getting any better but I can very much tell it's getting worse.

She's such a delight in every other way and she's so much healthier now than she was at first. She's overcome a lot of stuff and the reflux is finally under control but my goodness, I just need her to SLEEP.

Onlyboys, I don't know if I can wait till she's 4.5 but I guess it's better than 45







And not having that diaper change at night helps if for no other reason than it's one fight I don't have to deal with. She's now become a very active diaper change avoider so instead of a sleepy baby, I'd have a tiger on my hands if we had to change nappies in the night.

Scoobers, she very well may be an only child if we don't get this solved. I'm not getting any younger and I'm not intruducing a pregnancy into this mix with all this sleep deprevation (not that we have time time work on that anyway







). She will not WILL NOT take a pacifier. At all. Like you, I've probably got a small binky collection from the effort.

Wannabe, she's medicated for reflux (finally under control, yay!) and I can't think of anything new, food-wise.

I'd like to reply to everyone else but I've run out of steam and I'm depressing myself. Ugh. I'm OBSESSED with sleep - hers and mine, and I'm tired of thinking about it. But thanks for all the suggestions and please know we have considered all and tried most and I appreciate the time it takes to answer my questions and lend some sympathy.


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## mmfoote (Mar 6, 2006)

Quote:

Ugh. I'm OBSESSED with sleep - hers and mine, and I'm tired of thinking about it. But thanks for all the suggestions and please know we have considered all and tried most and I appreciate the time it takes to answer my questions and lend some sympathy.
Oh,I can so understand...I think I read every sleep book there was and they were absolutely no help! My DS1 wouldn't take a pacifier either and no bottle, so I know where you're coming from. I'm trying to remember back better to that time (amazing how far off it seems!) and I think it got better around ten months when DS dropped down to just one nap. Better for me was only waking up 5 times a night versus 8! But it was like heaven!

One day at a time....


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## turtlemama77 (Jul 29, 2005)

My dd slept pretty well, right up until she was about 7 months old. She was sleeping in her own bed at night, and started waking up about every hour, no joke. It was insane, me trudging to her room, nursing her to sleep, trudging back to bed, sleeping for maybe an hour, repeat. Finally, dh, who must be wiser than I, said, "Why don't you just bring her to bed with us if you get too tired?" Thank goodness he said that! So what we started doing was starting dd out in her own bed, and then whenever she woke up, I brought her to bed with us and nursed her lying down (which I hadn't been able to figure out until then...a great skill to learn, by the way).

The first few weeks were an adjustment though. It seemed like it wasn't a whole lot better, but I was getting a little more sleep because I wasn't getting up. After about a month, everyone started sleeping more most nights. We also treated for teething if dd seemed like she was in pain. She continued to wake 4-5 times a night (which was an improvement for us!), but around 13 months started sleeping longer stretches. She nightweaned on her own at around 14-15 months (I was pregnant, I'm sure that had a lot to do with it, but I certainly didn't discourage her from nursing when she woke), and started sleeping all night long, except for the one wake up to come to bed with us.

So what I'm saying with this long post is that most likely, it will get better with time. I agree with the pp who suggested slowing things down during the day if possible, taking naps with your babe, getting someone to help out while you nap (we did this a lot, actually, in the early evening after dh got home). And maybe try cosleeping for part of the night so you don't have to get out of bed. It's not a forever thing by any means! My dd is 20 months and still comes to bed with us at some point every night, but she has been regularly sleeping for 4-5 hours on her own.

Hang in there!


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## angela&avery (May 30, 2002)

Just some ideas.
Do you have a routine every night? try that. Maybe start doing bath, book or quiet play on your bed, on the floor in her room, nursies and rocking or whatever you do to put her to bed.

Try an earlier bedtime, a later bedtime, maybe you are missing her night night cue? I know when my dd was real young she went to bed sometimes before 7pm!!

Try one of those heartbeat things in the crib, a lullabye cd (lullabye magic by Joanie Bartels is SUPERB!! My 5 and almost 3 year old still listen to it every night an have since they were born, you can also use Nora Jones.. )For a while I kept it on repeat for the kids when they were sharing a room and dd was still little to keep they from waking each with their night time noises. Any white noise like that would help. fan or humidifier... also I hang beach towels over the blinds to keep it darker in the am's so we dont have to get up with the sun...

My dd went through a spell of waking at one years old during the night and being up and wanting to just be awake. She didnt wnat her bed, didnt want my bed.... and would scream cry in either bedroom making me have to take her out so she wouldnt wake dh or ds (we live in a small apartment). So I would just sit on the couch with her in the dark. I refused to turn the lights on and she would just sit there.. eventually I would say, ok.. are you ready for bed now and she would say yes. If she tried to play I would say, "no its time for bed, see its dark outside... its night night.... not time to play, time to sleep... no its night night..." over and over....
my point? Just keep it dark at night when she wakes so she understands its night.... and sleeptime..

got to get dd ready for bed... gotta go~ good luck~~









oh !! I forgot.... consider taking her to a chiropractor, especially if she had reflux too.. both of my kids are 'well -adjusted kids' and we see one as a family regularly. They can help even with sleeping problems.


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## anonymous4_20 (Nov 3, 2005)

We should form a club! My 8 month old follows the same pattern: good sleeper early on, got horrible once teeth came in. He's better when we co-sleep, but I've got chronic shoulder problems and can't do it for long stretches. NCSS isn't working for us because she says not to start it during teething. He's been teething constantly all summer long.

Just curious--did you swaddle in the early months? A lot of our problems started when we had to stop swaddling because he kept turning over and getting stuck.


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## jaidymama (Jun 18, 2005)

To the OP:
If you're baby is waking that frequently then I don't think you're experiencing a problem with your baby not knowing how to fall asleep on its own. I would be wondering what causes her to wake.

Please consider that if you have read/tried it all, then your baby may be experiencing a health problem (A possibility is food allergies/sensitivities.) Especially since you said that your baby was previously sleeping well, and isn't now.

Trying infant massage, cranial sachral massage, or giving herbal remedies like calms forte, or chamomile calm may help. I've also heard that taking magnesium can help encourage sleep... Check with a naturalpath, or herbalist for other sleep aid suggestions.

Get a change of scenery, if you're indoors a lot, try going for a walk or just sitting on a blanket a the park would be a good way to get fresh air.

The other thing to consider is that overtired babies sleep worse than well rested babies.

I know it's not easy dealing with sleep deprivation, our ds went through a time of that too. Good luck to you!


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

I'm wondering if she could be reacting to something in her diet, or in your diet via your milk. Natural salicylates can make some people jumpy/hyperactive, and are in what appears to be "healthy" foods. I can also completely understand if your diet isn't so great right now because you have no time or energy to prepare food and you're too sleepy to focus on food labels- synthetic colors and flavors, in addition to preservatives (particularly BHA, BHT, and TBHQ) can make some people hyper and could be interfering with your DD's sleep. She could also be having an allergic reaction to something in your diet- it's hard to sleep when you feel sick!

For the short term, is there anybody who can babysit while you take a long nap? Even if you can't get the baby to sleep, getting some rest yourself can help you have a better attitude about the whole situation.


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## jaidymama (Jun 18, 2005)

I have read many books when my ds was younger and experiencing lots of sleep problems. I found that no matter what any book said, no matter how solid their advice, there truly wasn't ONE magic cure for encouraging/helping my ds to sleep. I wanted to add my two cents about the NCSS because I really like it because she provided lots of research, and very practical information for me to consider. I was able to personalize our sleep solutions, instead of following a rigid prescription for sleep that did not take us into account. NCSS allows all kinds of families to start where they are at and move forward. I know this book helped us and many mothers here. Sorry it didn't work out for some of you.


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## starparticle (Jun 30, 2005)

Quote:

she's medicated for reflux (finally under control, yay!) and I can't think of anything new, food-wise.
I'm just curious - how do you know the reflux is under control? Her sleep is sounding just like my little guy when we took him off his meds (thinking he had outgrown reflux). Have you adjusted her dose as her weight has increased? The refusal to eat makes me wonder...

Another thing that comes to mind is: worms. I know this sounds totally wacko, but my Grandma was just telling me that my Dad at 7 months (started solids) was waking every 30 minutes all of a sudden. When she went to the doctor they tested him for worms, and TA-DA! He had picked them up from eating something off the floor...the worms made him itchy and unable to sleep. They cleared up in a couple of days w/meds. Anyways, just another random theory to consider







:

And big hugs to you, things sound miserable!


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## OakBerry (May 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NewMomNicole*
Thanks again for all the advice, so far nothing is working and she has gotten worse. She's sleeping in 30 minute stretches instead of 40 minutes to an hour. She had one three hour stretch at the very beginning last night but she was up every twenty minutes and took 30 to settle after that. Kill me now. She won't eat, isn't interested at ALL. She's asleep pretty much as soon as I pick her up, but she wakes as soon as I put her down...so it's up down up down for half an hour. For the record, holding her doesn't make her sleep any longer. I just don't know what to do.

As for the light...she really panics in the dark. Even in the car at night.

We are considering trying to cosleep again but I don't have a huge amount of hope because she wakes at the slightest noise or movement. But hey, no one will be happier than I if it works.

We do have some noise but it's not outside noise she responds to, it's sounds in the house. I've tried playing various classical (slow, aimed at sleeping) CDs but I'm not sure these don't just irritate her?

Suzievn, I know how you feel - when she first started teething I was so worried that I would cause her to make the night waking a habit and it seems I did. I can't really offer you any advice to that end, but I know the fear.

GooeyRN and Isra - I am so worried that I will spend weeks and weeks using NCSS and just essentially be wasting my time. It seems so fluffy (esp her method for getting them to sleep longer at night. We have been doing what she suggests as Phase One LONG before we bought the book and her nightwaking is more frequent, not less) and vague. I tend to think that those people who have had success would have had the same success had they just waited it out. Like, was it NCSS or time?

Dogmama, I did go through a phase where I could comfort myself by thinking about how this is time with her that I'd've missed if we'd've been asleep and how she won't be little forever but eight weeks in and I'm just not buying it as well as I used to







It's hard to stay positive on Night 8734 of resettling the baby every 45 minutes. I have a lot of nights where I pretty much just rock and sob and rock and sob because I can't see this getting any better but I can very much tell it's getting worse.

She's such a delight in every other way and she's so much healthier now than she was at first. She's overcome a lot of stuff and the reflux is finally under control but my goodness, I just need her to SLEEP.

Onlyboys, I don't know if I can wait till she's 4.5 but I guess it's better than 45







And not having that diaper change at night helps if for no other reason than it's one fight I don't have to deal with. She's now become a very active diaper change avoider so instead of a sleepy baby, I'd have a tiger on my hands if we had to change nappies in the night.

Scoobers, she very well may be an only child if we don't get this solved. I'm not getting any younger and I'm not intruducing a pregnancy into this mix with all this sleep deprevation (not that we have time time work on that anyway







). She will not WILL NOT take a pacifier. At all. Like you, I've probably got a small binky collection from the effort.

Wannabe, she's medicated for reflux (finally under control, yay!) and I can't think of anything new, food-wise.

I'd like to reply to everyone else but I've run out of steam and I'm depressing myself. Ugh. I'm OBSESSED with sleep - hers and mine, and I'm tired of thinking about it. But thanks for all the suggestions and please know we have considered all and tried most and I appreciate the time it takes to answer my questions and lend some sympathy.

My ds was like this at one point. If a pin dropped, he'd hear it. We had to put him in his own room because he'd wake up from any sniff or cough. I bought a white noise machine, that plays ocean waves, and a babbling brook, rainfall etc. In the summer a fan worked nicely. The white noise was enough to cover those sharp sounds that woke him up.
Also, he wasn't used to cosleeping anymore, so when we were in the throes of nightwaking, he didn't want to sleep with us. It was frustrating.
I slept in his room on a futon for months. Sometimes I could creep out onto the couch by myself and sleep. I'd start out holding him (I couldn't keep up the rocking thing as he got heavier) and would slump down into a laying position as we got sleepy. It was like i was still holidng him, but lying down. Eventually, he was able to accept my body lying beside him as a comfort, instead of a distraction. He is still not a great sleeper at age 4, but we get a solid stretch now.

Another thing I did was take a long nap on a weekend day when ds was home to look after him.


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## alisonmom (Jul 2, 2006)

I have two suggestions. A really good craniosacral therapist might help your dd to settle more easily. We have seen mild improvements in our dd's sleep (now 8 months) following good cranial work. She'll sleep for slightly longer periods of time, or put herself back to sleep more easily when she stirs (not always, but more than she had been). My other suggestion is homeopathy from a qualified homeopath. Again, we've had some success with that. The remedies the homeopath gave us were tailored specifically to dd, which was better than my simply pulling one off the shelf, I think.

Best of luck to you.


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## True Blue (May 9, 2003)

Real quick -- for white noise to help her not wake up at everything.....DD used to fall asleep whenever I vacuumed. We recorded our vacuum on the pc, looped it, and made a cd that we play every night when we put her to bed, so she isn't awakened by the tv, people outside, us going in and out, etc. It's really helpful. They sell cd's with the same thing, just look up "white noise cd's." Other than that, my DS is 4 and still can't sleep past a sleep cycle so I feel for you!


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *True Blue*
Real quick -- Other than that, my DS is 4 and still can't sleep past a sleep cycle

EEK! Now Im scared...


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## tmareeh (Jan 11, 2006)

I can't believe how many mamas are in the same boat here, yet we all think that "normal" sleep is for the baby to be plopped in a crib and only disturb us once or twice at night. My dd went through the same pattern as what many mamas are describing - with all hell breaking loose around 7 months. We also had a really bad period around 16 months. She is 2 now and wakes every 1-2 hours at night. However, some nights she will give us a long strech of 3-4 hours in the beginning of the night. Some things I found helpful along the way:

+ Consolidate naps as soon as your baby is ready. One 2 hour nap is sooo much better than two 45 minute naps.

+ Use a cue for naptime and bedtime. An air filter (white noise machine) is a great cue to let baby know it's time to wind down for sleep.

+Put sheets over the windows to keep the room as dark as possible to help baby sleep longer in the morning or at nap time.

+Go to bed an hour or two before baby and let dad or grandma watch him (or her). They can bring the baby to you when it is tired and ready to nurse to sleep.

+Or have dad or grandma take baby in the morning while you get an hour or two of sleep, even if it's only on the weekends. Sign baby up for Gymboree and let dad take him/her on Saturday mornings. Or have grandma take him to the park on Saturday mornings.

+Read up on sleep requirements for babies and children. Sometimes it helps to get a new perspective on what's "normal."

+Have dad try to get baby to sleep in a sling. Dad can dance or sway to soft music so baby can start to get used to relaxing and maybe falling asleep with someone else.

+Decide for one night - tonight - that you will give a gift to your child of attending to their needs all night without begrudging them. It really is a choice you make and a gift you give to them. Tomorrow you can work on things again.

I hope I've said something that helps someone. I feel your pain!

Taryn
mama to Tanner (2 years old)


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## Pinkdiva (Aug 25, 2006)

Our wee one is now 15 months old and would have bouts of not sleeping well for weeks at a time. This is what I have done.

1. When teething I gave tylenol, I can't stand for my ds to be hurting and NOTHING else worked, so we did tylenol and motrin every 2 hours.

2. I would sit up in bed and put my pillows behind my back. It gave my neck enough cushioning when I fell asleep. I would lay Connor against me in his sling, put a pillow under him to give me more control of holding him and we'd both go asleep. Does that make sense? Basically, I'm sitting up, he is being held, yet I had the pillow under my arm to act as a support, so I could go to sleep. He liked being held by me and wanted to be close, but laying on his back perturbed him sometimes. He liked the tilt to his body.

3. Noise, my ds is the youngest of 4 and likes to have background noise when he falls asleep. So, sometimes we will get up, do the tucking thing, watch tv in the livingroom and he'll fall asleep.

Good luck, sweetie. I know how hard this is! I'm hoping the sleep fairies spread a lot of sleepy time dust your way.


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## wsgrl84 (Jan 12, 2006)

Sleep? What is this Sleep mean?

Don't worry mama, we are here for you, we all got a share of sleep problems.

Trust me, I have my own problem with my 1 year old, who pulls an 1 hr PMS session every night before he passes out..

Good Luck!


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## risala (Jan 21, 2006)

I just had a big boo-hoo fest in the bathtub about this very same thing. I'm not alone!!!







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