# Talking to your children about drugs....



## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

Ok Help me plan. My Ds (age 11, grade 6) is going to do a program in school that starts very soon. A cop is going to come into the school, one hour a week for a month or so to talk about all sorts of things, including "drugs".

I am not comfortable with the "just say no" message. DS is bright, and needs more info than that.

fwiw, Ds is bright, inquisitive, gentle, curious, and thankfully, cautious.

I do not want Ds to do drugs, as it is slipper-y slope for some individuals - and as an adult i know: why take that chance?

My own family of origin? I do not like to take drugs (tylenol or anti-biotics) but will if necessary. I like alcohal in moderation, and have used marijuanna less than 5 times in my life. No other illicit substances. DH past is much more colourful, but it is all in the past - he never struggled with addiction.

I think marijuanna should be decriminilised.

So...what do you say? I want to make sure my viewpoint (not just the cops/schools) is heard and this topic is discussed intelligently. Help me brainstorm

Kathy


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## canadianchick (May 18, 2005)

My dd is also 11 but due to my job (social worker currently working for CPS) and having various friends who also work in the field as well as friends who are cops, discussions about drugs has been something that we have been having for years. I am very blunt and honest about things like this.... maybe sometimes too blunt and honest.


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

We have had a few (and I understand that it shoukd be an ongoing dialogue)...but mostly conversations have been superficial to this point.

Another thought: any books or moving that you think handles this subject intelligently for a 6th grader?


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## ani'smama (Nov 12, 2004)

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=746588

I thought you might find this thread interesting. My dd went through DARE last year. I was unimpressed.


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

Thanks! Will check it out.

Kathy


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## MillingNome (Nov 18, 2005)

Other than the link by a pp...

What I tell my dd, 13yrs, is that there are "safer" ways to get high... yk, like sky diving







I've also talked about how the drugs rewire the brain. No other high is ever like the first. You can spend your whole life chasing that first high but you will never get it again. We also talk about being in control of our bodies and actions and how drugs (and too much drinking) can take away the ability to make rational decisions.

As for smoking, cigs and mj, it's basically the same thing. In addition to that I've asked her what happens if she is in a building that is burning, filled with smoke. The answer is get out and find fresh air. So why are you going to suck down smoke? Does that make sense?


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

thank you!

That is what I am looking for....what do individual families tell their children about drugs?

Kathy


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## laoxinat (Sep 17, 2007)

DARE has never been shown to prevent drug abuse in participants, and in fact some studies indicated higher likelihood of experimentation amongst participants. It's the darling of police departments though. UGH. Despite the lack of evidence for efficacy. I wouldn't send my kid to DARE ever again. It was there my ds met the kids who were by FAR the worst influence. grrrr.
laoxinat


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I've talked to ds1 a lot about drugs. I have a history of drug abuse (mostly pot, alcohol and LSD), but that was a long time ago, and I never had addiction issues...just didn't like life a whole lot. My ex...whole other story. He was an addict, through and through. It wasn't even just drugs - sometimes, it seemed as though he was addicted to everything he touched (pot, coke, coffee, chocolate, videogames, me, etc., etc.). Both of his parents are addicts (ex-FIL is a hardcore alcoholic and ex-MIL has always had drug issues - both are now hooked, as is my ex, on crack). My dad is an alcoholic. With three out of four grandparents being addicts, and one of his parents being an addict, I have concerns about ds1's possible/probable tendencies in that direction.

I've talked to him about his family history and about how heavily drugs were involved in his dad's disintegration and our breakup. We've talked about the amount of research that strongly suggests that experimenting with drugs is even more dangerous for him than for his friends. I'm not going to say "just say no", because I've never met anybody who paid any attention to that. I want him to realize that there are very real risks, and it's really not worth taking the chance. Fortunately, ds1 has more zest and enthusiasm about life in general than most people I've ever met. He has lots of interests and lots of friends (a very anti-drug bunch, too), which I hope will help carry him through his teens without either the need to self-medicate (what I was doing) or the belief that drugs are the only way to have a good time.


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## JkFelix (May 27, 2005)

My DS is 11 and my DD is 10. I have been open and honest with both of them about drugs - the drugs are out there, they are *illegal* and they will be introduced to them at some point in their lives. My DS had an experience once when he slept over a friends house - what he described to me seemed to be the parents smoking a bong! Turned out, it was a hookah, but that got the talks started. I have been open with them and have made it seem like just another conversation so they are comfortable talking to me about it if and when the time comes.

I also made it clear to them that while pot is used medicinally (sp?) with adults in some parts of our country and even legal in some countries, it is still illegal in our country. I hope all my talking and keeping the lines of communication open work! I have also been around the block enough to know if they tell me the truth when they get a bit older!


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## menudo (May 21, 2002)

I have always been open and honest about it with my now 10yo DD. But she is just so naive. It is what "other people" do in her head. I have told her who she knows who still sue it and I think it scared her but didn't mean too! I explain the problem with drugs are that you may like some when you try them, but there are consequences both legally (if caught) and physically if it becomes a habit or addiction. I hate when peope lsya "oh the yare bad!" and a person tries said drug and ENJOYS it thinking "wtf is so bad about this?" Same goes for sex.

We discuss making good choices, etc. I never did drugs and loathe alcohol but grew up around both. DH did his thing (nothing major). I just stay honest and answer even the most uncomforttable questions...


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## ShaggyDaddy (Jul 5, 2006)

Most of what gets taught about drugs in the US are a pack of "Reefer madness" style lies invented by the Nixon administration. The fact was that they all lied and told me I would get hooked on pot and that pot would do X. I tried Pot, I was unimpressed. It did not have a profound effect on anything. It was not life changing, deadly, exciting, scary, or even significant. The second time I smoked pot I got more high than the first time, which of course is the opposite of what they teach about addiction and drug abuse. Everythign they told me about pot was a lie... so might as well try LSD (I was a teen at the time of the 1990s LSD revival... suprise suprise, it was nothing like they said it was going to be... suprise suprise, the urban legends about flashbacks, body ruining effects, and other various FUD taught through DARE and scare tactics are all pretty much false.

I think if someone had showed a little respect for me as a teen and told it to me without the lies I would have listened. The main problem is that without real research and a very skeptical eye, most "drug information" out there ranges from ignorant speculation to bold faced lie.

All you have to do is smoke pot 1 time, take one hit of acid, try one bump of crank, eat 1 mushroom, etc etc to learn that everything you have ever learned about drugs is a lie... and that is a pretty dangerous situation, because the truth is drugs might not do ALL of the bad things they say they will, but they are not an overall positive thing in your life. I would strongly urge you to educate yourself before you try to educate your children.


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

The schools are very, very bad about letting parents know this, but your affirmative parental permission is required for DARE.

I'm the OP on the linked thread. We are keeping our dd out of DARE this year. The principal calls me periodically to wring her hands at me over the phone because evidently there is some curriculum they are supposed to teach her even if she doesn't do DARE. However, I think it's not going to happen. I think the school will just ignore the whole thing with her.

I'm taking a health-based approach. I'm teaching dd the effects of various drugs on the body from a scientific perspective.


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## steffler101 (Oct 20, 2007)

ok, im fourteen and im a girl. i did the DARE programme about two or three years ago.

We basically learnt about lots of drugs and how to say no.. about being optimistic instead of passive/aggressive.. we learnt about the effects that it caused and what it did to our bodies. it actually helped me alot. and im kinda glad i learnt it.

its better to know about it then not to. i have a very close friend who, when they were 10, they had no idea what it was and much older people came over and told him to try some. so, being this young naive boy he did just that. and to me thats really sad. that shouldnt happen!!

and really.. i believe that teenagers should try drugs in their teen years. not this age but at like 16/17. because.. every teen needs to try it and experience that buzz.. because my mums friends kids are all grown up and they have a drug problem - they were fine great kids growing up.. but when they got older, they had always wanted to try it. so now that they were old enough to acess drugs, they also had all the money to do so. and they got addicted. its so easy!!!!

well mothers, i hope this has helped. im glad that i got to say my opinion.. take care wont you..
but you do whats right hehe xox


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## gr8tfulmom (Mar 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ShaggyDaddy* 
Most of what gets taught about drugs in the US are a pack of "Reefer madness" style lies invented by the Nixon administration. The fact was that they all lied and told me I would get hooked on pot and that pot would do X. I tried Pot, I was unimpressed. It did not have a profound effect on anything. It was not life changing, deadly, exciting, scary, or even significant. The second time I smoked pot I got more high than the first time, which of course is the opposite of what they teach about addiction and drug abuse. Everythign they told me about pot was a lie... so might as well try LSD (I was a teen at the time of the 1990s LSD revival... suprise suprise, it was nothing like they said it was going to be... suprise suprise, the urban legends about flashbacks, body ruining effects, and other various FUD taught through DARE and scare tactics are all pretty much false.

I think if someone had showed a little respect for me as a teen and told it to me without the lies I would have listened. The main problem is that without real research and a very skeptical eye, most "drug information" out there ranges from ignorant speculation to bold faced lie.

All you have to do is smoke pot 1 time, take one hit of acid, try one bump of crank, eat 1 mushroom, etc etc to learn that everything you have ever learned about drugs is a lie... and that is a pretty dangerous situation, because the truth is drugs might not do ALL of the bad things they say they will, but they are not an overall positive thing in your life. I would strongly urge you to educate yourself before you try to educate your children.

Very well put ShaggyDaddy

We are lucky enough to have a 'legalize cannabis' - mobile driving around our town in the summer. It is a great conversation starter.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ShaggyDaddy* 
Most of what gets taught about drugs in the US are a pack of "Reefer madness" style lies invented by the Nixon administration. The fact was that they all lied and told me I would get hooked on pot and that pot would do X. I tried Pot, I was unimpressed. It did not have a profound effect on anything. It was not life changing, deadly, exciting, scary, or even significant. The second time I smoked pot I got more high than the first time, which of course is the opposite of what they teach about addiction and drug abuse. Everythign they told me about pot was a lie... so might as well try LSD (I was a teen at the time of the 1990s LSD revival... suprise suprise, it was nothing like they said it was going to be... suprise suprise, the urban legends about flashbacks, body ruining effects, and other various FUD taught through DARE and scare tactics are all pretty much false.

I think if someone had showed a little respect for me as a teen and told it to me without the lies I would have listened. The main problem is that without real research and a very skeptical eye, most "drug information" out there ranges from ignorant speculation to bold faced lie.

All you have to do is smoke pot 1 time, take one hit of acid, try one bump of crank, eat 1 mushroom, etc etc to learn that everything you have ever learned about drugs is a lie... and that is a pretty dangerous situation, because the truth is drugs might not do ALL of the bad things they say they will, but they are not an overall positive thing in your life. I would strongly urge you to educate yourself before you try to educate your children.

I totally agree with this. By the time we had our drug "education", I had already been smoking pot for about a year. I failed the quiz they gave us on pot, because I checked several "true" things as being false. They _were_ false, but the official credo was that they were true.

LSD...some of the stuff I heard about LSD was bizarre. We'd hear some horror story about a guy who ended up in the psych ward because he was convinced he was an orange and people were trying to squeeze him, and it was all because of evil acid...but they didn't bother mentioning that the dose the guy took was roughly equal to drinking about two gallons of liquor (rum, vodka or whatever) in terms of how large it was compared to a usual street dose. Sure - scary stuff...but an equivalent overdose of many "benign" legal drugs (think Tylenol) would kill a person. They made it sound like flashbacks and birth defects in your future children were 100% going to happen if you ever did LSD...yet out of all the people I knew who dropped acid, I only ever knew one who had flashbacks, and it only happened to him twice in over 20 years of using the stuff.

Tell me how seriously I take anything they have to say. I don't know about the actual DARE program - that wasn't what we took. I do know that the "education" I received about drugs was useless propaganda that _might_ have worked on a few of the kids who'd never done any drugs, but was obviously full of lies to anybody who'd ever been around someone smoking a joint. The people running the program totally destroyed any chance they may have had of being credible to me. That's too bad, as I probably could have learned a few things, if I'd believed they actually had anything to teach me.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ShaggyDaddy* 
because the truth is drugs might not do ALL of the bad things they say they will, but they are not an overall positive thing in your life.

nicely put.









I did a fair share of self medicating when I was younger, and I'm hoping that my kids will have less of an urge to zone out of their own lives because they've had happy childhoods and always felt loved.

Drugs really haven't come up as a conversation topic for us much. One of my cousins spent time in the hospital last year after being badly beaten for debts caused by coccaine addition, and I talked very frankly with my children about addiction. I explained that Mike was a nice person who I really liked, but who made some stupid choices. I talked about the difference between addictive and non addictive drugs, the expense of drugs, and about when you are dealing with people who function out side of the law, they sometimes do things that are outside of the law (such as beating people up).

On one hand, I don't want to over state the problems with drugs, because I did so many drugs and never had any problems so it seems completely hypocritical. At the same time, I've seen others cause problems for themselves (eps. with addictive drugs) that I want my kids to always use extreme caution.

As it is, they seem to care about themselves enough that they don't want to do anything risky, but they are only 9 and 11, so I don't know if that is something they will outgrow at some point.


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## duckling (Feb 24, 2007)

http://erowid.org/ is a really, really good site about drugs. It's all scientifically based and well-organized. It's from a very drug-positive stance, which I think is important to balance out all of the reefer madness bull**** that gets taught in schools, however, I feel it's not biased towards, "Everyone go out and do every drug right now!"

They have a section called "The Experience Vaults" that is a series of experiences various people had on various drugs, including the bad trips, the hospitalizations, and the times the cops got called. For an older child (older than the OP's child), I think reading both the good and the bad experiences together as a part of a holistic and fact-based drug education program could be really valuable--it sates the curiosity about drug experiences and gives honest information about what could go wrong.

I would never send my child through DARE. So, so much of it is untrue and based in fear-mongering. I think it's similar to abstinence-only sex education--I find it's not really designed to educate, it's designed to scare and bully children into following a particular moral path without teaching good decision making and evaluating risks. I'd much rather my child understand that drugs, like sex, are very, very powerful experiences that are certainly not without risk. However, if you're gonna do it, you should know what you're doing, how it will affect you, and the best ways to protect yourself.


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## loriforeman (Aug 18, 2007)

my step-daughter says that the DARE program saved her life...her biological mom was strung out, and it was before she moved in with me. problems started when she turned her mother in for drug use...and ended up being severely punished for it.

when i was in school, DARE was too new...they didn't have it properly put in place.

i have my children do research on the effects of drug use...and we talk about drugs OFTEN, not just once in a while. i've introduced my kids to the two complete burn-outs that i know...and then explained why they are the way they are. one is a family member, and he is now brain damaged from using drugs as a teen...clean and sober, but difficult to even talk with. he responds...slowly, and he can't even read very well anymore.

yes, i know that it's an extreme case...but it's very effective. kids really think that they are invincible...i certainly know that i did.

i'm also very open and honest about MY past, and they know that we can discuss anything they choose. i'm going to let my kids go through the DARE program...and then discuss it with them each day.


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## WhaleinGaloshes (Oct 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kathymuggle* 
I am not comfortable with the "just say no" message. DS is bright, and needs more info than that.

Awesome, I completely agree.

Check out the Safety First website: http://www.safety1st.org/

and their publication Safety First: A REality-Based Approach to Teens and Drugs. It is a good guide, IMO, to talking to kids about drugs with factual, honest information vs. scare tactics and abstinance-only messages. I've met the author, and she rocks


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## Stinkerbell (Aug 11, 2005)

I tihnk honesty and a calm manner is the best approach for these discussions. I want my kids to ask me anything they want and know I will answer them.

My son asked outright, "if everyone knows drugs are so bad, why do they do them?". Apparantly, what he got out of the school program was all the horrible side effects drugs can have but no one ever said to him, "A lot of people feel really good when they first do drugs". So I told him. And I told him that is why NO ONE is immune to addictions....no one.

Each kid in my house needed to be approached in a different way, too. I know the probability that my oldest will likely be exposed to and tempted by drugs is much higher than the probability of my middle child. (My youngest is too young to know that yet). And their motives for wanting to live a healthy, drug free life are likely quite different: One is a free thinking, musical, laid back, androgenous, artistic, expressive and intense soul who questions and ponders everything. The other is a wild eyed, fearless, confident, michevious, athletic go-getter who wants what he wants.

Ask questions. What do they think about drug use? How do they percieve the future would be different for them if they did or did not use drugs? Get them talking and really LISTEN. That's a good way to open the dialogue and allow them to tell you what they need to know.


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## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *steffler101* 
ok, im fourteen and im a girl. i did the DARE programme about two or three years ago.

We basically learnt about lots of drugs and how to say no.. about being optimistic instead of passive/aggressive.. we learnt about the effects that it caused and what it did to our bodies. it actually helped me alot. and im kinda glad i learnt it.

its better to know about it then not to. i have a very close friend who, when they were 10, they had no idea what it was and much older people came over and told him to try some. so, being this young naive boy he did just that. and to me thats really sad. that shouldnt happen!!

and really.. i believe that teenagers should try drugs in their teen years. not this age but at like 16/17. because.. every teen needs to try it and experience that buzz.. because my mums friends kids are all grown up and they have a drug problem - they were fine great kids growing up.. but when they got older, they had always wanted to try it. so now that they were old enough to acess drugs, they also had all the money to do so. and they got addicted. its so easy!!!!

well mothers, i hope this has helped. im glad that i got to say my opinion.. take care wont you..
but you do whats right hehe xox


I believe you have at least demonstrated that you have already gone through DARE and instead of abstaining you believe in the future as a minor that you "should" try drugs.


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

OMG, they still do DARE?!?!?!

IMO, the cop thing encourages kids to do drugs.

Its such a dumb program.

I am not sure what I am going to tell my kids...I thought I was supposed to talk to them about drugs when they were really really young. But I sit here and look at my 4 year old and think "What would I possibly tell him?"









I was someone who actually experiemented with drugs for a short time, about 4-5 different types. My dh did different drugs for about 5-6 years recreationally so we definatly have the experience of having been there. (Thankfully no addictions or major health problems....yet...my dh has been told that his skull has holes in it-whatever that means.
















The lesson I took from drugs was that they were not bad at all. In fact, the danger of drugs is that they make you feel very very good. I loved them. They were alot of fun, I had alot of fun. But I could have died. Or gotten addicted-and not been able to stop.

I did alot of destructive things during that year and alienated most of the people who I loved. I also got pregnant with an abuser and placed the baby with an adoptive family.

Its a snowball effect.

I dont know what you should tell your child but that is my experience with drugs.

BTW-the cop that came in my school brought all the actual drugs, showed them to us, and told them what the high was like. in 6th grade. Is it any wonder alot of kids started experimenting shortly after?


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 

BTW-the cop that came in my school brought all the actual drugs, showed them to us, and told them what the high was like. in 6th grade. Is it any wonder alot of kids started experimenting shortly after?


So if DARE encourages kids to do drugs, do sex ed classes with condoms and bananas encourage kids to have sex?


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom* 
So if DARE encourages kids to do drugs, do sex ed classes with condoms and bananas encourage kids to have sex?

I don't know! Thats not the point of this discussion. Do you want to discuss sex ed or drug ed?









Quote:

Recently, both the U.S. Surgeon General and the National Academy of Sciences issued reports concluding DAREs approach is ineffective
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group...m_format=print

I think it is pretty clear that DARE doesnt work.

http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/librar...ter5/sec4.html

PS-I wanted to add that I personally wouldnt trust school to teach my kids ANYTHING involving sex OR drugs....I think that needs to come from home, personally.

But if they are going to school-they will get the schools perspective. I wish more parents would do the teaching in the home and not leave it to the schools. \


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom* 
So if DARE encourages kids to do drugs, do sex ed classes with condoms and bananas encourage kids to have sex?

DARE is actually much more analogous to abstinance only sex "education" programs than it is to comprehensive sex ed, and as we all know, the abstinance only programs have been shown to be a dismal failure.

DARE teaches that all drugs are uniformly bad. So, the take home message for many kids is that caffeine=alcohol=pot=tobacco=heroin=methamphetamin e, etc. So, when the kids see that their parents have some wine and don't end up smoking crack, or their friends smoke pot and don't start doing whatever it is you do with crystal meth, they figure out that they've been lied to. And if that DARE cop was lying about the pot, what else was he lying about?


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Oh, I think DARE is bogus. I've already said that. I also think children should have good and comprehensive sex ed .

I know my town does DARE, but we don't have a drug problem with children.

We also have sex ed, but I don't see teens having many babies here. (They probably do get pregnant-- but our high school teen birth rate is very low).

I think it's an interesting question, however. Seeing drugs equals doing drugs, but seeing condoms equals not using them? Just a point of discussion. that is all. Kids need condoms, it seems. And we know most kids will experiment with drugs, no matter.


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

I am not sure how to explain it to my kids, because I take issue with the "Drugs are Bad" thing. I wouldn't have tried them, and liked them if they were bad. I feel like thats a lie we tell to our kids.

The truth is, drugs are dangerous, drugs are alot of things....but "bad" is not a word I would use when talking to my kids about them.

If they were bad, people wouldnt be doing them.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EFmom* 
DARE is actually much more analogous to abstinance only sex "education" programs than it is to comprehensive sex ed, and as we all know, the abstinance only programs have been shown to be a dismal failure.

DARE teaches that all drugs are uniformly bad. So, the take home message for many kids is that caffeine=alcohol=pot=tobacco=heroin=methamphetamin e, etc. So, when the kids see that their parents have some wine and don't end up smoking crack, or their friends smoke pot and don't start doing whatever it is you do with crystal meth, they figure out that they've been lied to. And if that DARE cop was lying about the pot, what else was he lying about?

When the DARE teacher shows up with his Dunkin Donuts cup, we have problems.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 

If they were bad, people wouldnt be doing them.


I just had to read that again.


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom* 
Oh, I think DARE is bogus. I've already said that. I also think children should have good and comprehensive sex ed .

I know my town does DARE, but we don't have a drug problem with children.

We also have sex ed, but I don't see teens having many babies here. (They probably do get pregnant-- but our high school teen birth rate is very low).

I think it's an interesting question, however. Seeing drugs equals doing drugs, but seeing condoms equals not using them? Just a point of discussion. that is all. Kids need condoms, it seems. And we know most kids will experiment with drugs, no matter.


*How do you know you dont have a drug problem in your town? Its not like you can "tell" which kids are doing drugs.*

My dh grew up in a rich neighborhood because his mama thought it would be better for them, but guess what-he had exposure to so much more in the way of drugs than I did in my middle class community because, as it turns out, drugs are really expensive!

Also, don't forget about abortions. Abortions are a pretty common way of sweeping a teen pregnancy under the rug.

The point of sex ed, is more of an STD thing than a pregnancy thing, IMO.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
*How do you know you dont have a drug problem in your town? Its not like you can "tell" which kids are doing drugs.*

My dh grew up in a rich neighborhood because his mama thought it would be better for them, but guess what-he had exposure to so much more in the way of drugs than I did in my middle class community because, as it turns out, drugs are really expensive!

Also, don't forget about abortions. Abortions are a pretty common way of sweeping a teen pregnancy under the rug.

The point of sex ed, is more of an STD thing than a pregnancy thing, IMO.


We have a very low crime rate, a very low teen arrest rate, a very low teen death rate, and a very low teen high school birth rate etc. It's not a perfect place by any stretch, but tragic teen issues don't make news here (Of course, now I have just cursed my whole town).

Kids could all be doing drugs-- but very carefully, and in their own homes and never driving afterwards etc. I am sure there are abortions, although I think it would be more about morning after pills etc. Maybe those sex ed classes are working about as well , or as poorly, as DARE. lol


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

Drugs are just about everywhere. It's pretty naive to think they aren't in a particular town because you don't happen to see them. If it is a town where most people are comfortably off, it's easier to hide the problem. Ditto with teen pregnancy.

We also live in a very safe place. My town has been ranked in the top ten safest places to live nationally for many years. Drugs are available and teenagers get pregnant.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EFmom* 
Drugs are just about everywhere. It's pretty naive to think they aren't in a particular town because you don't happen to see them. If it is a town where most people are comfortably off, it's easier to hide the problem. Ditto with teen pregnancy.

We also live in a very safe place. My town has been ranked in the top ten safest places to live nationally for many years. Drugs are available and teenagers get pregnant.

Maybe reread? I didn't saythere are no drugs, just that drugs don't appear to be causing major problems-- low death rate, low crash rate, low crime rate etc. Teens must be having sex and getting pregnant; I said we have a *very* low high school teen birth rate, which is not the same as not having sex or not getting pregnant. We have sex ed and condoms. The classes and condoms are working, or maybe they are not. Maybe DARE is working...or not. Maybe the abortion rate is sky high here. That is an unknown. Does sex ed (and I am in a blue state- we don't do Abstinence Only here lol) or DARE impact any of this one way or another? I have no idea.


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

No, I dont think thats it, I think the parents are actually doing their job in your community.







We cant rely on schools to teach our kids about sex and drugs.

OP-I commend you for doing your homework and deciding ahead of time how to talk with your ds about the issue.

I wonder if they have started to include perscription drugs and drug peddling doctors in DARE yet? I think those are getting to be far more dangerous than cocaine and pot. And far more elusive and easy to hide.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Does the new (supposedly lol) DARE address prescription drug use (Ritalin etc) in children? How to they handle that and Starbucks? Does the cop sweep into the classroom and say "Hi! I am all pepped up on my Double Grande here, and I am sure most of you are falling alseep from your morning Ritalin. But I am here to say Drugs are Baaaaaad. Here's some pot & coke from my last bust-- look carefully, but don't breath too deeply. Ha Ha". I mean...if that is really the DARE program...and it seems to be, according to folks here, somebody, somewhere must be making a mint off this program.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
No, I dont think thats it, I think the parents are actually doing their job in your community.







We cant rely on schools to teach our kids about sex and drugs.
.

But it's not that DARE was teaching not to use drugs; it's that DARE programs actually increased drug use, yes?


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

I really appreciate all the replies. I have read all, even if I did not particiapte.

I am still thinking about my gameplan....I am remembering, as I write, the movie "trainspotting" (which I onlysaw the beginning of). A very young ewan macGregor said something about how evil drugs were, about how they messed up your life, but also about how they made you feel fantastic.

I have decided that I may need to insert some natural highs into life.....we make take up skiing, as a family, this winter for example.

Kathy


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

the movie trainspotting is a GREAT example of why not to do drugs actually!


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## ShaggyDaddy (Jul 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
LSD...some of the stuff I heard about LSD was bizarre. We'd hear some horror story about a guy who ended up in the psych ward because he was convinced he was an orange and people were trying to squeeze him, and it was all because of evil acid...but they didn't bother mentioning that the dose the guy took was roughly equal to drinking about two gallons of liquor (rum, vodka or whatever) in terms of how large it was compared to a usual street dose. Sure - scary stuff...but an equivalent overdose of many "benign" legal drugs (think Tylenol) would kill a person. They made it sound like flashbacks and birth defects in your future children were 100% going to happen if you ever did LSD...yet out of all the people I knew who dropped acid, I only ever knew one who had flashbacks, and it only happened to him twice in over 20 years of using the stuff.

And even that is full of FUD







.

The truth about LSD is that it is water soluble, a fact that is very important in terms of the lies they tell you about it. 1st the dosing of LSD is almost insignificant to the effect. 20 micrograms is the average street dose, the first "Trip" was made on 250 micrograms. There is no known fatal or psychological possibility of overdosing on LSD. In other words, since this chemical is water soluble and it bonds to receptors INSTEAD of triggering hormone production like other more dangerous drugs, once you are "tripping" any LSD after that equates to creating really expensive pee, there is almost no way to overdose beyond drowning in it (haha), malnutrition from consuming only it (haha), or exhaustion(not as unlikely if you continuously took the drug for days), there is almost no way for a water soluble substance to survive in the body for more than a few days or weeks, so birth defects as a result of this drug is .

Flashbacks are deemed by the scientific community to be 100% psychological. There is no chemical residual, only a profound psychological event, which is recalled and relived. Much like post traumatic stress, a fight with a loved one, or a particularly nice lovemaking session, your mind will tend to relive past significant events.

I would never do LSD again, but that is more because I don't like losing 8 hours, then being tired for 2 days. The lies they tell are astounding, and it is amazing how prolific they are.

A schedule 1 drug that has never had a major lab busted, has never had an overdose death, and has virtually no success with the DEA... Nixon must be going crazy.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ShaggyDaddy* 
And even that is full of FUD








.

The truth about LSD is that it is water soluble, a fact that is very important in terms of the lies they tell you about it. 1st the dosing of LSD is almost insignificant to the effect. 20 micrograms is the average street dose, the first "Trip" was made on 250 micrograms. There is no known fatal or psychological possibility of overdosing on LSD. In other words, since this chemical is water soluble and it bonds to receptors INSTEAD of triggering hormone production like other more dangerous drugs, once you are "tripping" any LSD after that equates to creating really expensive pee, there is almost no way to overdose beyond drowning in it (haha), malnutrition from consuming only it (haha), or exhaustion(not as unlikely if you continuously took the drug for days), there is almost no way for a water soluble substance to survive in the body for more than a few days or weeks, so birth defects as a result of this drug is .

Flashbacks are deemed by the scientific community to be 100% psychological. There is no chemical residual, only a profound psychological event, which is recalled and relived. Much like post traumatic stress, a fight with a loved one, or a particularly nice lovemaking session, your mind will tend to relive past significant events.

I would never do LSD again, but that is more because I don't like losing 8 hours, then being tired for 2 days. The lies they tell are astounding, and it is amazing how prolific they are.

A schedule 1 drug that has never had a major lab busted, has never had an overdose death, and has virtually no success with the DEA... Nixon must be going crazy.

Interesting stuff. I had no idea about the water solubility and the logical ramifications. Do you have any idea what the maximum effective dose would be? I know I never did more than two street doses, and did notice an increased effect. I had friends who would go to 3 or 4, but I like a little more connection with what's actually going on around me than that!

The man I know who had the flashbacks was very prone to reliving emotional situations and to having nightmares, so it makes total sense that he would be the one with flashbacks (he was also about 10X more likely to have a bad trip than any of my other friends).

I don't find the idea of malnutrition that laughable in some ways. I never had much appetite when I was on the stuff...and that was mostly for simple carbs. I can easily see exhaustion being the biggest problem, but I'd think at some point, the body would just collapse into sleep, even with the drug in one's system, wouldn't it?

LSD is actually the only drug I kind of miss. I totally agree about the two days of exhaustion (I was always the one in our group of friends who could _not_ go to sleep right after a trip, so the exhaustion was really bad for me. There has also been much of the last 10-12 years where I was pregnant, breastfeeding, both - or ttc. Under those circumstances, I've felt that staying far away from LSD was a wise move. Since dh is totally not into trying it, I'd say it's safe to say that it's only in my past now...but I don't regret it, the way I do my excessive pot use (got really unmotivated) or some of my drinking binges.


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## Romana (Mar 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ShaggyDaddy* 
The truth about LSD is that it is water soluble, a fact that is very important in terms of the lies they tell you about it. 1st the dosing of LSD is almost insignificant to the effect. 20 micrograms is the average street dose, the first "Trip" was made on 250 micrograms. There is no known fatal or psychological possibility of overdosing on LSD. In other words, since this chemical is water soluble and it bonds to receptors INSTEAD of triggering hormone production like other more dangerous drugs, once you are "tripping" any LSD after that equates to creating really expensive pee, there is almost no way to overdose beyond drowning in it (haha), malnutrition from consuming only it (haha), or exhaustion(not as unlikely if you continuously took the drug for days), there is almost no way for a water soluble substance to survive in the body for more than a few days or weeks, so birth defects as a result of this drug is .

Just want to hopefully get some clarification on the science here. It's my understanding that not all water soluble substances are non-toxic in large doses. Vitamin B6 is water soluble, but in large doses can cause neurological damage, usually first noticed by tingling in hands/feet. It can cause permanent damage if continued to be taken. The doses at which neurological effects are first seen have been as low as 200mg, and most bottles of Vitamin B6 have pills in a 50mg dose, so it wouldn't be difficult to take too much. Certainly there is an element of personal physiological sensitivity when taking it, as some may see effects as low as 200mg and others not until 1,000mg or even higher doses. But still, it is not harmless because it's water soluble, so it's known that not all water soluble substances will be harmlessly passed by the body in large doses. Do you know how this applies to LSD?

Are there any good studies on the short and long-term effects of various illegal recreational drugs? I really like having studies to help me put together the pieces.


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## ShaggyDaddy (Jul 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I don't find the idea of malnutrition that laughable in some ways. I never had much appetite when I was on the stuff...and that was mostly for simple carbs. I can easily see exhaustion being the biggest problem, but I'd think at some point, the body would just collapse into sleep, even with the drug in one's system, wouldn't it?

I was meaning drinking LSD to the exclusion of food, behavioral food aversion is not what I meant (but I guess it is likely). What I was trying to say is that your body does not process this chemical after a certain threshold.

Since it is not documented beyond Dr Albert's 250 microgram dose (what he called the "threshold dose" because theoretically your body will not/could not process more), we can't be really sure. But the science and pure anecdotal evidence of never having a documented overdose death backs up the theory that it is just impossible. 12.5 street doses, produced a "normal" trip for Dr Albert Hofmann.


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## KaraBoo (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ShaggyDaddy* 
Most of what gets taught about drugs in the US are a pack of "Reefer madness" style lies invented by the Nixon administration. The fact was that they all lied and told me I would get hooked on pot and that pot would do X. I tried Pot, I was unimpressed. It did not have a profound effect on anything. It was not life changing, deadly, exciting, scary, or even significant. The second time I smoked pot I got more high than the first time, which of course is the opposite of what they teach about addiction and drug abuse. Everythign they told me about pot was a lie... so might as well try LSD (I was a teen at the time of the 1990s LSD revival... suprise suprise, it was nothing like they said it was going to be... suprise suprise, the urban legends about flashbacks, body ruining effects, and other various FUD taught through DARE and scare tactics are all pretty much false.

I think if someone had showed a little respect for me as a teen and told it to me without the lies I would have listened. The main problem is that without real research and a very skeptical eye, most "drug information" out there ranges from ignorant speculation to bold faced lie.

All you have to do is smoke pot 1 time, take one hit of acid, try one bump of crank, eat 1 mushroom, etc etc to learn that everything you have ever learned about drugs is a lie... and that is a pretty dangerous situation, because the truth is drugs might not do ALL of the bad things they say they will, but they are not an overall positive thing in your life. I would strongly urge you to educate yourself before you try to educate your children.

This is how I feel. I strive to be honest about drugs and how they make you feel and the reasons for choosing them.

My dd is only 8 (nearly 9) so she lumps all drugs together in her mind. She knows people drink wine/beer/cocktails. She knows people drink soft drinks/coffee (caffeine is a drug imo). She knows people smoke pot and cigarettes. But there isn't much of a delineation in soft or hard in her mind yet. I'll continue to try be best to be as honest as I can as she grows older.


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## ShaggyDaddy (Jul 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Romana9+2* 
But still, it is not harmless because it's water soluble, so it's known that not all water soluble substances will be harmlessly passed by the body in large doses. Do you know how this applies to LSD?

Sure, sorry I was not clear... here is how the best studies have worked:

Quote:

Clinical Management of Poisoning and Drug Overdose
by Haddad Winchester
page 459:
"No well-documented human deaths resulting directly from the toxic effects of LSD itself have occurred, though LSD has been implicated in accidental deaths, suicides, and homicides. LD50 (That's lethal dose in 50% of those who injest this much) determinations vary widely with species, begin 46 mg/kg in mice, 16.5 mg/kg in rats, 0.3 mg/kg in rabbits and 0.1 mg/kg in elephants. In monkeys, the LD100 is 5 mg/kg. Death in these animals is the result of respiratory failure, preceded in the rabbit by marked hyperthermia. Human data are manifestly lacking, and predictions of the average lethal dose for humans have ranged from 0.2 mg/kg to more than 1 mg/kg, administered orally.

So on the upper end, for a 150lb human, a lethal dose would be about 68,000 micrograms or 3,400 doses. And that is only based on animal trials... the animals basically forgot to breathe. Who knows if the more complex brain of a human could handle more than that of an animal... 3400 doses is approx $23,800. Compare that to say heroin, which you can OD on for 100 bucks easy. Most LSD Distributers do not have access to 3400 tabs.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ShaggyDaddy* 
I was meaning drinking LSD to the exclusion of food, behavioral food aversion is not what I meant (but I guess it is likely). What I was trying to say is that your body does not process this chemical after a certain threshold.

Since it is not documented beyond Dr Albert's 250 microgram dose (what he called the "threshold dose" because theoretically your body will not/could not process more), we can't be really sure. But the science and pure anecdotal evidence of never having a documented overdose death backs up the theory that it is just impossible. 12.5 street doses, produced a "normal" trip for Dr Albert Hofmann.

Ah - okay. The most any of my friends and acquaintances every took, to the best of my knowledge, was 8 or 9 street doses. I met a guy in the psych hospital who was really messed up, and the staff claimed it was from an LSD overdose about 10 years prior - but I have no idea how many doses he was supposed to have taken. I was never that worried about it, as I was never tempted to take more than 3, and never actually took more than 2. I can't imagine was 250 micrograms would be like, considering how hard a double dose hammered me! I certainly can't imagine drinking it to the exclusion of all else!


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ShaggyDaddy* 
Most LSD Distributers do not have access to 3400 tabs.

I can believe that - the most I ever saw in one place was 200...

Thanks for the info...always good to get some _facts_ on this subject. With ds1's family background, I do still hope he stays away from drugs in general...


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## amberskyfire (Sep 15, 2007)

My mom was really awesome and I think must have used some kind of magical mind trick on me. She never did tell me not to do anything or punish me for doing anything "wrong." She wanted me to know that I could make my own decisions because she knew I was going to anyway, despite whatever rules she put down.

She told me experiences she had when she was younger and did drugs and she told me some good reasons why I should not. She didn't drill it into my head, just talked to me like my best friend. I learned what kind of lifestyle people lead who do drugs and she kind of down-talked people like that and I guess I kind of grew up with a "holier-than-thou" air about people who did drugs, which wasn't great, but it helped me.

When I got into high school, my mother told me that she didn't WANT me to do drugs, but that she wouldn't get mad about it if I did if only I would just do drugs at home and let her know what I was doing and with whom. She said she wanted to make sure that I was at home safe where she could call 911 if anything happened. She said she knew she couldn't stop me from doing it if it was really what I wanted to do and that she would just feel better knowing where I was and what I was doing.

I never did do drugs, not once. I never smoked pot or even tried a drag off of a cigarette. I never drank alcohol except what my mother gave me until I was 21, even when I was living on my own at 17. All of my friends were super into heavy drugs (acid, meth, cocaine) which was really strange and I got made fun of a lot.







It helped me a lot that she never punished me or nagged me. She was always there for me and it was like talking to my best friend. She knew when I had sex for the first time and we made jokes about it. My mom was my best friend and I trusted her with anything and I think that that total trust was worth more than all of the "don't do this" talks in all the world.


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

amberskyfire said:


> ....................
> 
> W*hen I got into high school, my mother told me that she didn't WANT me to do drugs, but that she wouldn't get mad about it if I did if only I would just do drugs at home and let her know what I was doing and with whom. She said she wanted to make sure that I was at home safe where she could call 911 if anything happened. She said she knew she couldn't stop me from doing it if it was really what I wanted to do and that she would just feel better knowing where I was and what I was doing.*
> 
> ...


The bolded sounds like good advice. Your mom sounds smart!

Im still thinking about how to approach the issue of drugs with my preteens. My 9yo already takes amphetamines every morning (ritalin-and a very tiny dose). I think of it as taking cocaine every day. Or is it meth? One of them is amphetamine based. I myself have a coffee in the morning. My 7yo ds has an addictive physiology as far as i can see. He becomes a sugar addict if he eats gluten ( I always know he had gluten when i see him searching out sugar like an addict)

I believe there is nothing wrong with trying drugs, but I wouldn't want my kids to do it before their brains matured. I didnt smoke, drink or do drugs until at least age 20. My brother never touched alcohol his whole life, although all of this friends were drinkers.

I believe-everything in moderation. 
(once your brain is fully matured that is)


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

UUMom said:


> Does the new (supposedly lol) DARE address prescription drug use (Ritalin etc) in children? How to they handle that and Starbucks? Does the cop sweep into the classroom and say "Hi! I am all pepped up on my Double Grande here, and I am sure most of you are falling alseep from your morning Ritalin. But I am here to say Drugs are Baaaaaad. Here's some pot & coke from my last bust-- look carefully, but don't breath too deeply. Ha Ha". I mean...if that is really the DARE program...and it seems to be, according to folks here, somebody, somewhere must be making a mint off this program.


Great point. How do you address this double standard?

I believe sugar is addictive and affects behavior in the same way that other drugs do. I also believe that certain people, can become addicted to anything. Drugs are not the only concern.


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