# Celebrate Abortion?



## pseudomama (May 1, 2004)

Let me start by saying I am NOT really a new member of MDC, I have been a member for years! My heart is pounding as I type this thread!









I read the thread about the women's march in Washington earlier today and I have not been able to stop thinking about it!







I would love to keep this thread as respectful as the other common grounds thread, however this is an extremely emotional topic for me! With that said...gentle comments only please!









For those of you who marched on Washington, who felt the "positive energy" and were moved to tears by the songs and speeches and celebrated being a woman...

HAVE YOU EVER HAD AN ABORTION?

It has taken me almost 12 years to write or speak out about this topic!







I used to consider myself very pro-life, Catholic, member of Teens for Life in high school, marched at the state capitol, stuffed envelopes for Pro-life cause, etc. I used to be very pro-life, until I became pregnant at the age of 18 because of a failed contraceptive! Now I feel as if I cannot comment on either side, because to do so would make me a huge hypocrite!









Having an abortion is the worst thing I could have ever done and I will NEVER forgive myself for what I did! I killed my own child!









As the bumper sticker says, "If it's not a baby, you're not pregnant!"









I don't know how anyone can celebrate the death of millions of babies! I am sickened by what I did! I was pregnant! I could feel that pulling feeling in my uterus, my breasts got enlarged, missed period, etc. All the feelings that I rejoiced in later when pregnant for my two wonderful children! How can we celebrate ending the life of an unborn child? I don't understand this?







:


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## Els' 3 Ones (Nov 19, 2001)

I sincerely doubt that any one of the million marchers or the millions more supporters _"celebrate ending the life of an unborn child"._

How inflamatory can one be? And claim to want to be respectful?

With all due respect to your pain.................perhaps you suffer too much to see clearly.

There are millions of women who have had abortions and do not feel as you do.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Every child a wanted child


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## Aura_Kitten (Aug 13, 2002)

... with all due respect, these women weren't out there "celebrating abortion," as you put it, but rather, celebrating that they have the freedom of choice, and making their voices heard that women still need that freedom.

to "celebrate abortion" would be an extremely macabre event, IMO. i don't know honestly how anyone could see it that way.


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## Carolinamidwife (Dec 18, 2001)

Arg. I really hate the mentality that those of us who support a woman's right to choose are somehow "pro" abortion. I am as pro-choice as someone can be, 100% of me is pro-choice, but I have never had a celebratory feeling towards abortion. I will, however, continue to celebrate the fact that I am in control of my body and I'll spend the rest of my life ensuring that all women have that right.

I'm sorry, I think this is an inflammatory technique used by those who are anti-choice in an attempt to set up a biased debate. I cannot stand this type of remark.


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## BeeandOwlsMum (Jul 11, 2002)

Please remember to be respectful and civil in this conversation. I know this is a difficult topic for everyone, for many reasons. Please take a moment to pharase your reponse as gently as you can.

Thank you.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

You've been a member for years yet you just joined??

hmmmmmmmm


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

I haven't had one myself, but more than one person that I am very close to have had more than one abortion each, and they do not regret them, and they are still pro-choice activists.

I have had 3 or 4 early miscarriages, and I didn't mourn them because it was too early in the pregnancy to consider them babies. They were tiny clumps of cells. When most abortions are performed, you're not talking about a baby, you're talking about a tiny clump of cells. It really isn't anything yet. It's pre-fetal tissue. It's an egg with a sperm in it.

I am one who attended the March for Women's Lives, and I wasn't there to celebrate abortions or to promote abortions. I was there to fight for my right to make decisions about my own body. It's not my place to tell you you should have an abortion and it's not your place to tell me I can't have an abortion. That's what the pro-choice movement is about. It's about the right of every woman to make her own choice.

No one is saying abortions are pleasant. We weren't there at the rally jumping up and down thinking "yay abortions are cool." We were thinking "I have the right to self-determination!"


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

I wasn't at the march, I would love to go to one though. I would not be celebrating abortions but a woman's freedom to choose what is done with her body.
I've had an abortion and I don't look back on it as a celebratory event, in fact it is one of the most painful events I have experienced. I am grateful I had a choice though.
Your guilt , pain and shame over your abortion is yours to own and you shouldn't project those feeling off onto others. I am very sorry for your pain.
I hope this wound will heal in time and you will be at peace with yourself.


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## pseudomama (May 1, 2004)

I am deeply saddened by the harsh words of other AP MDC mamas!















for AdinaL for her positive and respectful words!

This thread was not meant as an inflamatory technique! This was a truly painful thread for me to write, which is why I used another username! Yes, Arduinna I have been a member for years under another name! I did not want anyone IRL or at MDC to know that I had an abortion!( It has already been brought to my attention that this is a rule violation and I have already pmed Cynthia Mosher about this)

I understand that pro-choice is about women's rights, however I do not understand "cheering" about it! Some compassion please, mamas! Thank you!
Sheacoby we cross posted, thanks for your empathy, although I will never have peace or closure over this issue!


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## sadie_sabot (Dec 17, 2002)

:


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Do you understand the difference between cheering for women's rights/having choices and cheering for actual abortions? The rally involved the former, not the latter.


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

I was trying to be gentle with my post. I can tell this pains you greatly. I am truly sorry for that. I was trying to say that not everyone sees abortion as you do or feels the same about their abortions as you do about yours. I was not trying to be hurtful. If I was I apologize.
For what it's worth I had a hard time getting over my abortion, it was a very sad time in my life.
The way you feel about abortions and your own specifically will probably make it hard for you to fully understand why we would celebrate a woman's right to choose.
I sincerely hope you will be able to heal this wound and are able to forgive yourself, if you haven't already.


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## Aura_Kitten (Aug 13, 2002)

i don't think any of us are being harsh, simply forthright.

SBFMommy hit the nail on the head.

the rally was *not* about celebrating abortion, nor cheering for them, period.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

I'm sorry that you're so pained still by your abortion. I'd seriously consider getting some counseling to deal with your feelings.


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## Megan_Cherry (Feb 16, 2003)

Here is a pic of " a clump of cells" at 8 weeks old.
http://bellsouthpwp.net/m/a/maryb683...n/8wkfetus.htm

My sis has had two abortions less than one year apart, both times at 8-10 weeks. I am pro-life now. But during her first one I was on the fence and leaning mostly toward pro- choice. I held her hand and drove her to the clinic. I love her sooo much. She swore to me that she would only take this "get out of jail card" once. But I guess not.

I dont want to seem judgemental. This issue is so hard to talk about nicely. But I am glad we are talking about it.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

*


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Oh, please! I don't need to see the link either, because I'm sure it's exactly the same picture that all the pro-lifers were waving around at the rally.

I also don't need to look up what an 8 week pregnancy *actually* looks like, because I've already looked at the *accurate* pictures provided by an *unbiased* source.


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## kama'aina mama (Nov 19, 2001)

pseudomommy, I am so very sorry for your pain.

I honestly expect that if I ever had an abortion I would probably feel the same way. I am pro-choice because I do not have the right to choose for anyone else but I know it would be the wrong choice for me. I am so sorry you made the wrong choice for yourself and that it still pains you.









I was not in DC. I did not watch any of the coverage or read any of the news. I was out at sea fishing. I don't know if anyone there was "celebrating". I don't know what they were doing that may have looked like it. I would ask you to consider, however, that at any big event like that there is such a level of excitement, mob psychology really. Have you ever gone to see a band live that you just thought was okay? You liked them more than you thought... for at least that night, I bet. At a big event, surrounded by people who are in a good mood, all sharing the same feelings, it is easy to get a little swept away.

Again, I am sorry that you have problems with what you chose to do. But you must understand that it is simply not that way for everyone. That for some people it really is the best choice they can make... and we don't have the right to take that from them. There may be people who think abortion is great but there aren't many of them... and there are people who think a lot of terrible things are cool. We recognize them for the aberitions they are.


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## hotmamacita (Sep 25, 2002)

pseudo---First of all,







Thank you for trusting us with your story and pain.

I don't believe that women who are involved in the political pro-choice movement are celebrating death. I think the issues run much deeper for them. I just can't imagine that women would cheer and celebrate the right to take a life. In my heart, I truly believe that women who support the movement do not believe it is a life. The issue is more about personal rights and choice.

But most importantly something you said REALLY struck me. That you can never forgive yourself. I deeply hope that you can. I don't want to make you or anyone feel uncomfortable by my saying this so I'll keep it brief...God is a tremendously forgiving God.

I am not saying that God needs to forgive you or anything like that. I just know that at times in my life where I have really regreted hurting another person, albeit in different ways, that God's forgiveness & relationship have helped me to forgive myself and move forward in grief and Profound strength.

Peace & Love,


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## PikkuMyy (Mar 26, 2004)

Hi everyone here!

I'm not a mama yet, nor have I had an abortion, nor was I at the rally. Why am I posting, you may ask?

I wanted to bring to everyone's attention the fact that although on face value, this march was about women's rights, the right to choose, etc. (and of course it was about those things,) the real issue at hand - which is what brought so many women (and men!) out for the largest demonstration the US has ever seen is the current administrations slow and calculated attempt to fill up the supreme court as well as other district courts with one type of judge (for life) in an attempt to gain control over Constitutional issues. If Roe V. Wade is overturned, there's no stopping what they'll try to overturn next.

This would be true if they had tried to overturn another such decision - but they picked one that MANY people can agree on, from all political arenas.

Although I am theoretically pro-life - I would never have an abortion unless there were extenuating circumstances (my death, for example), I believe that women should be able to have control over their bodies (especially given the issues of rape, incest, dangerous health conditions, etc.) And this administration's attempts to and successes in changing laws regarding abortion do not take the mother's health and life into account. However, this issue isn't about abortion for me. It's about the law and the importance of our Constitution. This demonstration/march brought that to our Capital - with men, women, gay and straight people, Democrats and Republicans, etc.

Obviously, there were people there who were VERY pro-choice, such as those with photos of fetuses. But the overall statement made regarding the law was an extremely important one, even if some of the marchers were focusing on details...

I applaud those posters who are being respectful with such an emotional issue. Even though I've never had an abortion, I had a friend who had three - one due to rape at 12 years old, one due to a severe health condition, and the last because she wasn't ready yet. She kept her fourth pregnancy and has a beautiful daughter, almost 7. The first two are the main reason that I am pro-choice. I know that some people, like a peer in high school, use them like birth control and I VEHEMENTLY disagree with this. But for others, it can be a life-saver.

Pseudomama - Although I don't share your view of the march, I wanted to thank you for the courage to share your experience with us. I found out from a friend that my mother had at least two abortions as a teenager, possibly more, one for which she flew to Puerto Rico. My mother never told me about this, and when that friend mentioned them, assuming that I already knew, I started to cry. My mother was always really nuts about sex, trying to get me to promise to wait til marriage when I had only met my first boyfriend at 16 and wasn't even thinking about sex. She raised me to have a wierd, confused attitude about it, which caused quite a few problems for me as a grown-up.

I think I cried for several reasons - 1. I felt betrayed by her because I was ALWAYS honest with her about everything having to do with sex; I even went to her after I lost my virginity to tell her about it, and she told me that she "had known for a long time now". She assumed that I was having sex even though I told her I wasn't, and went as far as to warn my DH's dad about me when we were dating!!!! DH assumed that I was some sort of slut even thought I'd been celibate my choice for 2 years, partly due to my personal pro-life choice ("If I don't want a baby with him, I won't sleep with him" was my motto.)

2. I felt really sad that even after I was so honest with her, she couldn't be honest with me. Partly sad for me but really sad for her - either she feels ashamed, or it hurts her too much to talk about it.

3. I wished that she had told me because then I would understand her view of premarital sex and might have taken some of the things she said seriously. Instead, I went out of my way to dress provocatively sometimes and I had lots of male friends and they were always calling the house and showing up at odd hours to pick me up. (Hmmm...I sure was sending mixed signals to her, wasn't I!)

Anyway, enough about me. I just wanted to thank you for making me think more about my mother and how it must feel for her - probably similar to you. I wish that I could talk to her about it but I don't want to make her angry with her friend (even though he didn't tell me on purpose) and also because I don't want to put her on the spot, etc. Pseudomama - would you feel comfortable talking to your children about it in the future? If one of them found out, how would you want them to approach you about it? I guess I'm asking if you think I should try, based on how you feel about the issue.

Enough blabbing. I have to finish my paper. Have a calm, quiet night, everyone.


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## Monica (Mar 7, 2002)

Adruianna - I just wanted to let you know that when you miscarried naturally at 9 weeks, the fetus most likely died 1 to 4 weeks before your body expelled it. Also, once the fetus dies, your body begins to reabsorb the tissues of the fetus. Another thing to consider that a natural or spontaneous miscarriage happens because the fetus is not normal. Of course it didn't look like it should. It is unlikely that you would micarry a perfect 9 week fetus and recognize it as such. Please don't use the "blob of cells" you miscarried as fuel for the debate. They are not the same as a healthy 9 week fetus living inside a healthy uterian environment.

Pseudomama - I am very saddened by your situation, and I am sorry you had to post under an alias, but I do understand. It is hard to watch pro-choice rallies and not feel them a celebration of death when you have experienced an abortion so profoundly as you have. There are Crisis Pregnancy Centers in most towns that offer post abortion counseling. I would recommend you go talk to somebody there. You need to heal and find the forgiveness you are seeking.

Sheena - I agree - i think being pro-choice does not = pro-abortion. To me they are very separate issues. For me I have been really exploring, can I be anti abortion and pro-choice at the same time and I am coming to realize the answer is yes. What I would choose for myself (very strongly anti-abortion) is not at all relevant to what any one else should or would choose. Having the right to choose for myself is the right I want to celebrate. Really what disgusts me is that as women we can not provide pre abortion counseling that is unbiased, not full of inflammatory propaganda, or trivializes the procedure or its impact on the woman's emotional health. To me neither side seems to be all that honest. Then when the woman makes her decision we should have good community supports in place either way. Post abortion counseling or pregnancy education, breastfeeding support, parent support, financial support the list goes on.

well, this is the first time I have broken my don't-post-on-abortion-threads rule. I have just been thinking a lot lately about the meaning of the word feminist and it's application in my life, this has helped me to work thru some of my thoughts.

edited for grammar faux pas


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## cynthia mosher (Aug 20, 1999)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pseudomama*
This thread was not meant as an inflamatory technique! This was a truly painful thread for me to write, which is why I used another username! Yes, Arduinna I have been a member for years under another name! I did not want anyone IRL or at MDC to know that I had an abortion!( It has already been brought to my attention that this is a rule violation and I have already pmed Cynthia Mosher about this)


You'll have to refresh my memory because I do not recall giving anyone permission to open another account. Please send me a copy of my communication to you allowing this.

Ahhh. I see that you are _going_ to contact me. Sorry for the confusion. Yes this is a rules violation. We'll see.....


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## cynthia mosher (Aug 20, 1999)

pseudomama has contacted me and will not be posting under that username again. The account is closed.

I'd like to remind everyone, including pseudomama, that though we permit discussions about abortion it is a topic that is very closely moderated and one that we are pretty strict about shutting down if it gets too tense. Such discussions have caused our community deep pain and frustration in the past, not something we wish to see repeated over and over again.

Peace mamas!


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Monica, yet again I am sorry that I posted anything personal here. You know nothing of my loss. You have no idea what it looked like, what happened, when the loss occured or the circumstances. So, don't even bother telling me what happened. I lived it.

Thanks for letting me know that someone who wasn't there, has no idea what I saw supposedly knows better than me what I experienced.

And your comment about how it was supposedly not normal is beyond rude. Maybe you should spend some time reading in the pregnancy and birth loss forum so you can learn some compassion. But please don't post.


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## cynthia mosher (Aug 20, 1999)

This discussion is entirely too personally pointed. Let's stop it here mamas. Please take your issues with each other to PM and not put them out here in discussion.

Thread closed. Sorry folks.







s


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