# Children at weddings... Your thoughts



## afishwithabike (Jun 8, 2005)

I absolutely hate it when children are excluded from weddings. Have you ever seen just how much fun they can make an event like that. I love watching the little dears get up and dance. They have fun, and if you're like me you enjoy yourself because your children are enjoying themselves. Babies SHOULD be welcome due to feeding schedules etc, it's not like the bride and groom are paying for them to eat, and every wedding we've gone to I've worn my baby, which as we know keeps them calm.


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

I have to agree. When dh and I got married, we absolutely wanted children at our wedding. They bless the event somehow. Our society is so adult-centered though, that it's no wonder children are unwelcome at so many weddings. I think it's sad.


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## jaclyn7 (Jun 9, 2005)

Hmm, don't flame me but I think it really depends on the feelings of the couple that is getting married. DH & I insisted that it was a family affair and we wanted kids there, but I would've expected people to respect my wishes if I wanted a black tie optional wedding without kids. Personally, I don't get the big wedding thing on so many levels so this would never be an issue for me, but sadly I've been to many weddings where guest blatantly went against a couple's wish and I don't think its fair especially considering the cost of weddings and the fact that we all have our own day to do what we choose with it. Regardless of whether or not a child is bfing & or well behaved it is changing the atmosphere (for better or for worse) and I don't think anyone has the right to impose their philosophy on anyone else. However, I would expect the bride & groom to be understanding when people turned down the invitations because if my children were young & nursing I'd find it really hard (if not impossible) to leave them for any period of time and I tend to believe that I wouldn't go where my children were not wanted. Like most things in life I think we have to be respectful of others while not compromising our views and so I think decisions should be made on a wedding by wedding basis.


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

Jaclyn, I agree - but I still think it's wierd.


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HerthElde*
Jaclyn, I agree - but I still think it's wierd.


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## Attila the Honey (Mar 15, 2003)

I say to each his own, but honestly if my baby isn't welcome I am not going. It bugs me that it's "OK" to even make that stipulation, really. There are plenty of obnoxious adults I'd like to exclude from events, but I'd never write "Please, no middle aged men that tend to drink too much" just because my Uncle Harry is like that.


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## oddeebean (Feb 11, 2005)

It doesn't really offend or bother me at all. Some people do not like kids, don't want kids there, don't think they're cute, whatever the reason. I mean, its the couples wedding, they're paying for it. *shrug* I loved having kids at my wedding, they were all great and we had a separate room for them with movies and kid food when they got bored or cranky. That worked for us but I can see how some people would just rather not deal with it at all. I've been to some weddings where a mother did not remove her wailing baby from the actual ceremony, and the baby was screaming over the vows!







If the couple specifies Adults only then just make the decision, and don't make a huge fuss about it. I think that the couple who is going to be married are probably aware that some people will have to turn down the invite because of kids. Its not really a big deal to me and I don't take it as some huge personal insult. Kids aren't for everybody.


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

I also think it's entirely up to the bride and groom, and it depends on the type of wedding they want to have. I've had great fun at weddings held in a church hall with a bluegrass band, where children were welcomed and they had great fun. I've also been at much more formal evening weddings where children were not invited, and frankly, I would have been a nervous wreck if mine were there. Oh, and many places do charge for children (not babies), so I can entirely understand if the bride and groom can't pay for them. My extended family is absolutely huge, and inviting all the kids would seriously up the price tag.

I do agree that an invitation is just that. It is not a command performance. Just as the people throwing the party have the right to draw up the guest list, the people invited have the right to decline and there should be no hard feelings.

I've declined many invitations where my kids weren't invited, but I wasn't hurt in the least that they weren't. Whether or not the brides and grooms were offended that we didn't come is their problem.


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## pygmywombat (Jul 28, 2005)

I think it's the right of the bride and the groom to decide if they invite children to their wedding- however, if they do chose to exclude children and especially babies they have no right to get mad at someone or a couple for not coming because they are unable or uncomfortable with leaving their child behind.


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## LianneM (May 26, 2004)

I loved having kids at my wedding, too. It was so fun to dance and twirl around - they loved seeing my dress puff up










If someone doesn't want kids at their wedding, that's up to them, but I probably won't go either. It would depend on how close I was to them, and honestly, I can't imagine someone I'm that close to not wanting kids there :LOL


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## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

I think it if the bride and groom want and adults only affair, they should have one.

I have been to weddings with kids and had a blast. Ive been at weddings where there were no kids and had fun.

My own wedding was adults only, and formal. Everyone that was invited came, except for my husbands sister, who had had surgery.

Quote:

it's not like the bride and groom are paying for them to eat
I'm not sure thats the main issue, although it may be depending on their budget.


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## mamabearsoblessed (Jan 8, 2003)

yes, I suppose it reflects the bride and groom wishes, but i agree w/ the pp that said children bless weddings somehow.
dh and i welcomed children at our wedding, i have been known to not atttend when nursling not welcome, hey, my babes gotta eat, and they eat at mom's








nak


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## Jane (May 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Zombiewaif*
I absolutely hate it when children are excluded from weddings.

Something come up that brought this to your mind? I'm curious what made you so ticked that you just had to get it all out in a policy statement.


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## shelbean91 (May 11, 2002)

I don't care either way. It's up to the bride and groom. The thing I don't understand is when a bride and groom choose a childfree ceremony/reception, then get irate at families who choose not to go b/c their children aren't invited and they don't want to go without them.

It's the choice of the couple to invite who they choose, it's the choice of the invitee to attend or not (and they shouldn't be harassed about their choice any more than the couple should be harassed about theirs). my opinions- clear as mud, right?


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## earthmama369 (Jul 29, 2005)

It's been said already, but I agree that it's the bride and groom's perogative to include or exclude children from their wedding -- but if they decide to exclude children, they have *no* right to be upset if the parents choose not to come.

We had babies and children at our ceremony and were blessed for it. It was amazing. They danced through bubbles, helped create our circle, and generally relaxed and entertained the other guests. Then again, we would have been hypocrites for excluding them, seeing as we chose to marry on Llammas, a fertility holiday.


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## Rivka5 (Jul 13, 2005)

I was at a wedding once where the people sitting directly in front of me had a baby in the screeching/crowing stage. Their baby "talked" all through the ceremony - lots of loud, high-pitched squealing - and the people sitting around them had trouble hearing the service.

After the service, I heard the baby's mother comment about how lucky the bridal couple was to have such happy baby noises at their wedding. I didn't think so, and I doubt that the other people seated near us thought so either! I think that sometimes parents aren't the best judge of how our babies affect a social event, because we get so used to the noise.


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## sweetest (May 6, 2004)

A few months ago one of our neighbors came over to tell us he and his live in girlfriend were getting married and he wanted to make sure he had our name and address right for the invitation. I specifically asked him "Thank you so much for inviting us, Should we make plans for a sitter or will it be appropriate to bring dd with us?" He said - "oh shes just little, she would be welcome!" (dd is 2) He even addressed the invitaiton with my name, dh's name and dds name - thre was no mistake that she was invited.

We get there and its a very formal,intimate wedding.







: I went outside with dd during the whole service and after that it was still very quiet and we told dd "this is a quiet party, we have to use our quiet voice" She said "*I CANT*" :LOL - We grabbed her and ran out of there. The other neighbors we were sitting with realized that we were gone and guessed what had happened. We didnt even get a canape. :LOL

I wish he would had just been honest with me and said it was going to be very formal. I even made a point to sound like we would get a sitter (we would have not gone).

If you want a black tie, long white table cloth type of wedding, fine. Its much better to say that upfront than to invite people you know have children and tell them children are welcome and then have the parents try to "make the baby behave".


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Zombiewaif*
it's not like the bride and groom are paying for them to eat, and every wedding we've gone to I've worn my baby, which as we know keeps them calm.

I'm sorry, but I REALLY have to respectfully disagree. I'm not sure what is your point of starting this thread (since there is one out there already). But my dd is only now (at almost 4) starting to understand social graces. As a baby - nothing would have kept my high-needs child quiet, especially wearing her. She hated being bound in a sling!! I wouldn't have taken her to a wedding even if she had been specifically invited. I know she would not have made "happy" noises. I would have felt bad that she disturbed the ceremony. And how is the couple to say "yes" to parents who have kids that can be easily soothed and "no" to parents that have kids like mine?

I really think it's the marrying couple's decision to let kids in. It's also the parent's decision to go or not based on the invitation. I don't see the big deal. If a couple doesn't want noise, happy or otherwise, during a ceremony, it's their choice.


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## Attila the Honey (Mar 15, 2003)

My problem is that the wording is "NO CHILDREN". Not "Children are welcome, but if they start to be a distraction please take them outside". It seems very not child friendly to me, and not fair.

Velochic, you would have had the option of not bringing your child if you knew she wasn't good at social graces but my 2 yo is generally quiet and knows to whisper when I do so why shouldn't my child be allowed?

Can you imagine if someone wrote: "Please, no elderly." and then cited the reasons being because their walkers block the aisle, they don't hear well, and they walk so slow, their dentures click etc. ? Yikes.


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## knittingmomma (Jun 5, 2004)

I agree that obviously it is up to the bride and groom, but I think it is a sad commentary on our society when the majority of the time children are excluded. It wasn't always this way.

My oldest child is 11 and he will be attending his first wedding next month! The first wedding that children are welcome with open arms. Children are generally excluded from many social functions these days.

Our wedding we had was outside under tents on a lake and there were children dancing, fishing, playing, etc... It was beautiful. Children are just as important as the next person as they are people too.

Ok, so I am a bit passionate about this one.

Warm wishes,


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Attila the Honey*
Velochic, you would have had the option of not bringing your child if you knew she wasn't good at social graces but my 2 yo is generally quiet and knows to whisper when I do so why shouldn't my child be allowed?
.

Well, you bring up a good point. Let's say that you THINK your 2 year old is generally quiet. I KNOW my 2 year old isn't. I don't bring my 2 year old because I know she won't be quiet during the ceremony. You bring your 2 year old and she has an "off" day and isn't quiet, but yet she's still there. How would I feel knowing that my child wasn't welcome, but yours was? How would you feel if your child had her moments of unrest and disturbed the ceremony? I mean that's all theoretical, but you can see how the fallout of the situation could cause major turmoil. I just think it's up to the bride and groom to set blanket policies because it's their day. And I think it's being sensitive to all guests to not make exceptions. All children welcome (babes in arms on up) or not. But as a GUEST, it just doesn't seem appropriate to put conditions on an invitation extended to me. I wouldn't ask to bring kids to a cocktail party. How is this any different? I would simply tell the hosts that in my current life situation, I can't leave my baby, toddler, child and I regret that I cannot attend. The hosts have the final say. That's my opinion, anyway.







I'm sure there are others who do not agree.


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## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic*
I just think it's up to the bride and groom to set blanket policies because it's their day. And I think it's being sensitive to all guests to not make exceptions. All children welcome (babes in arms on up) or not. But as a GUEST, it just doesn't seem appropriate to put conditions on an invitation extended to me. I wouldn't ask to bring kids to a cocktail party. How is this any different? I would simply tell the hosts that in my current life situation, I can't leave my baby, toddler, child and I regret that I cannot attend. The hosts have the final say. That's my opinion, anyway.







I'm sure there are others who do not agree.









I'm with Velochic on this one.

Its their day and they have a right to say yay or nay to kids. And its up to the invited guests to say yes or no depending on their situation.

As far as whats fair, its really not up to the invited to decide that, imnsho. Sometimes things are just not fair.


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## annakiss (Apr 4, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic*
I just think it's up to the bride and groom to set blanket policies because it's their day. And I think it's being sensitive to all guests to not make exceptions. All children welcome (babes in arms on up) or not. But as a GUEST, it just doesn't seem appropriate to put conditions on an invitation extended to me. I wouldn't ask to bring kids to a cocktail party. How is this any different? I would simply tell the hosts that in my current life situation, I can't leave my baby, toddler, child and I regret that I cannot attend. The hosts have the final say. That's my opinion, anyway.







I'm sure there are others who do not agree.









I totally agree. Also, some weddings are more relaxed than others so children will fit in better. I've been to big fancy-pants weddings and would definitely not want to take my children with me to those. My 3 yo running around the museum? Nuh-uh.


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## mamameg (Feb 10, 2004)

I think it is totally up to the bride and groom to have what ever sort of wedding they want. And if they don't want children there, I think that's fine. Not every event in life has to include the kids. I think it's perfectly fine to say "adults only", whatever the motivation.

But I also agree that then the bride and groom shouldn't get upset when people whith children decline the invite if they can't bring the kids along.

ETA: Am I the only one around here who longs for an adult only event? :LOL Don't get me wrong, I







my kids, but as a SAHM, I crave adult interaction! Maybe it's becuase we still don't have a sitter and have been out without the kids TWICE in 1.5 years, but I'd personally love to be invited to a adults only event right about now!


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Its up the the bride and groom they also need to understand that they coud be limiting there guests having a no child rule. We allowed kids at ours I even assigned my cousin as a "mothers helper" and set up a table with coloring books and crayons and made sure to have at leat one chid friendly thing (other than cake) on the menu we had a finger food tray with cut up veggies chicken and steak strips and cheese and fruit soo the little ones had something they were likely to eat at the reception.

Deanna


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Attila the Honey*
I say to each his own, but honestly if my baby isn't welcome I am not going. It bugs me that it's "OK" to even make that stipulation, really. There are plenty of obnoxious adults I'd like to exclude from events, but I'd never write "Please, no middle aged men that tend to drink too much" just because my Uncle Harry is like that.

No, of course you wouldn't write it, you simply would not invite Uncle Harry. Similarly, if a child's name is not on the invitation, the child is not invited. However, some people don't seem to understand this, and that is why some wedding invitations are specifying "No Children". People would not bring any other uninvited guest, why is it OK to bring uninvited children?


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## MamaBug (Jun 13, 2003)

When I got married I didn't mind if the flower girl and ring bearer stayed, their parents sent them off. Fast forward to 2 years ago when my brother got married, he and his wife INSISTED that my sons, both ring bearers, leave right after the ceremony ( they got married at the catering hall). They didn't even get to dance the first dance ( which our child attendants did). I was SO mad, I mean we laid out like $1,000 for dress, accessories and tuxs ( all 4 of us were in the bridal party) and I even asked if they could just come for the first dance and we were told no. I was stunned. She didn't want the focus on the kids.....selfish. Whatever, we paid the $$ and they got picked up during the cocktail hour. Not the choice I would have made but it wasn't my wedding and I did have the choice to take my kids out but I decided it was not worth all the trouble it would have caused, kwim


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## gratefulbambina (Mar 20, 2005)

I can see both sides to this. We had an adult only wedding only because we were trying for as small as possible wedding & it was short notice so funds were not available to pay for extra food. Unfortunately there isnt a kids price when it comes to food & it adds up pretty quick. I dont see why babies (especially those nursing) cant go since they dont cost the couple any more money. I think that if I was close to someone that was getting married & with explanation I would hope that wouldnt be a problem.

However..I also think that if the wedding takes place out of town & you are inviting friends/family that will be coming from out of town then it is only right at that time for their children to be invited because I dont think it is right to ask for them to pay for the cost of travel & have to find someone to watch the children while they will be gone overnight/weekend & what not.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gratefulbambina*
However..I also think that if the wedding takes place out of town & you are inviting friends/family that will be coming from out of town then it is only right at that time for their children to be invited because I dont think it is right to ask for them to pay for the cost of travel & have to find someone to watch the children while they will be gone overnight/weekend & what not.

Now in this case, I would probably talk to the bride or groom (whomever invited you) and ask them that since you are traveling so far to be at the wedding, if they would provide someone to take care of ALL of the children of ALL of the couples invited. That would seem like a good compromise to me. Then maybe the babysitter(s) could bring the kids to the reception. A lot of hotels have babysitting services or if the guests aren't comfortable with that, a trusted young adult relative could watch the kids on the premises.

I feel like I'm sounding anti-kids at weddings, but really I'm not. I'm just pro-bride-and-groom-choice. :LOL


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## gratefulbambina (Mar 20, 2005)

That would work to if the bride & groom are setting up sitters for out of town guests children.

Im also pro bride & groom choice


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## Attila the Honey (Mar 15, 2003)

I think the one thing everyone has agreed on, both sides of the fence, is that it should be up to the bride and groom. :LOL Almost every post has begun by saying that.

OF COURSE I believe it should be up to the bride and groom, just as I believe it should be up to the bride and groom if they want to play horrible music and make their bridesmaids dress in ruffles. However, I don't have to *agree* with their decision.









I guess I just feel it's not child friendly to hear "kids at a wedding" and assume the kids will be whining, talking too loud, running up and down the aisles and in general a nuisance. I don't think of kids at any event and assume they will likely be a problem, b/c ime they usually aren't. One bad apple, yadda yadda.


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## OakBerry (May 24, 2005)

Depends on the wedding, and the hosts. If the wedding is during the day, outside, and there's plenty of room to run around and it's not going to be a big deal if the kids make noise, and the bride and groom want them there, I think children belong at a wedding.
If the wedding is at night, in a fancy enclosed space, or if the bride and grrom don't want kids there, children don't belong at a wedding.
I have a huge family. When I got married I had so many guests I could barely fit them into the hall. (yes we could have done an outside wedding but fortunatley we did not, it poured the entire day, and night, and next day). Our wedding was an evening wedding, with a reception that ended at midnight. I had my sisters kids be part of the wedding, not the reception. Here's why: The reception started at 7pm, dinner was probably not served until 8:30. Just in my immediate family there were 10 grandkids, most in the 3 years to 6 years old range. Then, count in my cousin's kids, about 15 more. I had to cut it off somewhere, so it was easier to just say no kids.
Thinking back, it would have been a freaking nightmare if all those kids came. They would have been bored stiff, made to "behave and not make noise" in a darkened noisy hall, nowhere to play, pouring rain outside, and past most of them's bedtime.
Some people got their own babysitters, and also my cousin's daughter and my other cousin's daughter (both responsible and well loved by all my nieces and nephews) watched the rest at my mom's house. They slept over and had pizza and movies and stories. The daddies left the reception to put everyone to bed, then came back. My sisters were glad to get out for a night. There were a few people who weren't happy but that's life.
Nobody was nursing and there were no infants, they definatley would have been allowed.

I went to a wedding when ds was 3 months. It was right down the street, luckily, so I left ds with my mom, and drove back twice during the reception to nurse ds. He slept the whole time and we had fun. If it were not that convenient, I would never have gone.
Now that he's 3, I get a babysitter.


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## grahamsmom98 (May 15, 2002)

It is the couple's decision. It is their invitation. Accept or decline and get over it.

Our wedding was a formal, no children wedding. No kids were in the wedding party, either (just me, dh, my matron/honor and the best man).

We worded the invitations as: "Do to space limitations, no children under 12 years of age". We didn't want young children at our wedding and this was a nicer way of saying it.

We had already had to cut back on adults to invite (the church and reception place each held a max of 250), much less worry about those that had multiple small children that would take up space. Sorry, but the adult friends take precedence over youngsters that may not even know us and could care less about a ceremony.

We knew some of our friends had younger children and everyone of them got babysitters and came. None had any children of breasfeeding age, so that wasn't an issue. If there had been any, infants would have been welcome, but we would have made sure the family would have been seated towards the rear of the church so they could remove themselves if the baby began to scream.

When ds was an infant, we attended one wedding with him (children were invited). When he began to fuss a bit to nurse, I immediately left the church and nursed him in the reception hall. I missed seeing the entire ceremony, but didn't mind as I knew there was no interruption from us in this special time for the couple and their families. I could listen to it on the loudspeaker (one of the reception ladies turned it up for me to hear while nursing, which was really sweet of her). Unfortunately, there was another baby there in the church, too, and his/her mother did not leave to quiet him/her. When I saw the video of the wedding later (to see what I missed witnesing!), the sound of that baby crying went the entire 20 minutes of the ceremony. Really annoying.

We had both been to weddings where the children talked or cried throughout the ceremony and ran around and were very disruptive during the reception (why do so many parents go blind at weddings and receptions and think it is just so cute when little Missy questions everything in a loud voice or joins the bride and groom at the altar, or that Junior is blowing off steam by tearing all over the place at the reception?).

My neice's wedding was supposed to be a no children wedding, as well. A friend of the family came and brought their young daughter anyway. Short of asking them to leave, there was nothing left to do. They stayed. During the beginning of the ceremony, the little toddler girl ran out into the aisle right behind the bride and plopped-down on the her train and tore the back of her dress open. They had to stop things for a few minutes so they could pin her dress back together (her underwear were clearly visible because of the tear). My niece and her dh were furious at the disruption and destruction. It put a real sour note on the rest of the day.

I look at it this way. Maybe YOUR children are the sweetest, most well-behaved kids on the planet and would be welcome at the most formal wedding on Earth. HOWEVER, another friend's or relative's kids are total monsters and perfect ads for birth control.

Do you issue invites that specifically allow your one friend's good kids but exclude the other's spawns of satan? Nope, you make it easier for everyone and cut out any kids.

We have received invitations to weddings that excluded children and we have no problem with it. It's their special day, so they have the perfect "right" to invite, or not invite, children. One of us stays at home with ds and the other goes and represents our family at the event. I've had folks tell me it would be okay if we bring our son (even though the invite was clear on no children), and we still decline as it isn't fair to others that may have children to see our child there and not their kids.


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

So, this is an interesting one for ME, as my dh and I have just set the actual date of the actual wedding... next Oct. And we discussed this. We came up with, what I thought, was a good idea, and I'm interested in knowing what YOU think...

Prenna will be almost 2, then. All her cousins and buddies will be 18mos-6years. We're thinking of sending mini-invitations to her cousins and buddies, along with the invites to their parents... that say "Join me for a Wedding Party, while my mom and dad say their vows". In our family/community there are ample "child-wranglers". So, picture a couple grown-ups herding the kiddos off to a nearby room, or tent, after we walk down the isle with a couple of them... to play, sing songs, draw a big Congrads card for the bride and groom, whatever, while the ceremony goes on in piece. Then, for the recep, the kids are re-united with the group at large, for food, cake, music.

Most kids are appalled at having to sit thru things... we are thinking we'll be the"Cool" Aunt and Uncle... what do you think?


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

We just got an invite to a *family* wedding where no 'children' under 21 are invited. ;-) Which means all the older cousins, except my older, adult-looking, but 16.5 yr old child is not invited. It's all about how much $ per plate, which is no way to start a life. I give this marraige two years, tops, anyway.

I am going to have strep throat that day. Maybe even avian flu.


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## mamameg (Feb 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom*
It's all about how much $ per plate, which is no way to start a life.

Ummmm.... why not? If a couple is paying for their own wedding and the day they have dreamed of and planned for requires they put a limit on the guest list, why is that so awful?


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## BumbleBena (Mar 18, 2005)

There is only one small child (5 yo boy) in our family anyway, but we decided against inviting children simply because we have room for only 70 people. It's a very small, inexpensive, informal outdoor wedding, but if we go over our limit (I do believe they count children, not babes-in-arms, but a child occupying a seat), we could lose our permit. This was as big and as nice as we could afford to make it, but if it came down to a decision between my mother's friend with three children and my best friend's family, her family wins hands-down.


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## Doodlebugsmom (Aug 1, 2002)

I just need to say that the thought of taking my children to a wedding almost brings on an anxiety attack! That's not to say that I would just leave them anytime to go to a wedding far away. I recently enjoyed a fun, late evening wedding with just dh. I got to sit down and eat at my own pace. Heck, I even went to the bathroom by myself a couple of times.







I, like many other poster, believe that the couple has the right to decide what type of wedding they want. The invitees get to decide whether or not to attend. That said, I would never personally have a child-free event!


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamameg*
Ummmm.... why not? If a couple is paying for their own wedding and the day they have dreamed of and planned for requires they put a limit on the guest list, why is that so awful?


i don't really care if one starts out married life thinking in terms of limiting close family members because of $$. I did get a 'Greenbacks Only, Please' shower invite, too. I sent a check and my regrets. it's about all I can manage without calling attention to myself. :LOL If those are their values, ok. I just don't feel like celebrating that shallowness. I've known these folks for 20 yrs, and like I said, i give this marraige 2 yrs, tops. I' m being generous.

Like I said, I'll have strep throat that day.


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## Bethla (May 29, 2004)

Prennamama-

That is a great idea. My cousin did a similar thing for her wedding reception and had a small room next door with two child-care providers, pizza, games, movies etc... The kids had a better time than the adults at the "real" reception. The music was too loud and the food was bad.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamameg*
Ummmm.... why not? If a couple is paying for their own wedding and the day they have dreamed of and planned for requires they put a limit on the guest list, why is that so awful?

Because only the vows are for the couple, the wedding and *optional* celebration afterward are for the families.

That said, it is a sad fact of society today that most people *expect* a huge shindig for a wedding and will be whiny about not getting one when they come.

Ideally, people should figure out who they're inviting and then plan the reception around what they can afford for that many people. Having a super-formal intimate dinner party with the spiffy new dishes and silverware sometime after the wedding (maybe also show the (PG) honeymoon pictures?) would then be a nice way to get the "everything has to be perfect, perfect, perfect" syndrome out of the way.


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## ceilydhmama (Mar 31, 2003)

I can't imagine a wedding without kids. We do have friends who had a black-tie wedding at midnight on New Years in a very swank hotel. They still invited kids though and arranged for a playroom/sleeping area in the attached room.


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## mamameg (Feb 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom*
i don't really care if one starts out married life thinking in terms of limiting close family members because of $$. I did get a 'Greenbacks Only, Please' shower invite, too. I sent a check and my regrets. it's about all I can manage without calling attention to myself. :LOL If those are their values, ok. I just don't feel like celebrating that shallowness. I've known these folks for 20 yrs, and like I said, i give this marraige 2 yrs, tops. I' m being generous.

Like I said, I'll have strep throat that day.

Well okay, I can certainly understand not wanting to celebrate a marriage that you have so little faith in. It's probably just as well for everyone that you not go.


----------



## mamameg (Feb 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan*
That said, it is a sad fact of society today that most people *expect* a huge shindig for a wedding and will be whiny about not getting one when they come.

Ideally, people should figure out who they're inviting and then plan the reception around what they can afford for that many people. Having a super-formal intimate dinner party with the spiffy new dishes and silverware sometime after the wedding (maybe also show the (PG) honeymoon pictures?) would then be a nice way to get the "everything has to be perfect, perfect, perfect" syndrome out of the way.

I actually have the opposite feelings about people's expectations of weddings. A lot of people I know much prefer a smaller, less formal affair, where they actually get to interact with the couple and feel like they are part of the day. But that's neither here nor there, I guess.

And I guess I agree that the guest list should be a major factor in how the couple plans their wedding, but it should be a list of people THEY want there, not the list of people everyone else wants there. And if they don't want kids, I don't see why other people get so ruffled up about it. But that's just me.


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## chapulina (Feb 18, 2003)

one of my closest friends had` her wedding for adults and children over age 17 only.

we chose to not attend. I don't understand excluding children from weddings at all. excluding the elderly or persons with disabilities would be unthinkable. just as they need 'special accomodations' (wheelchair ramps, whatever), so do little people (soundproof playrooms , etc)

my dh was shocked that people would actually consider excluding children from a wedding - its pretty much unheard of in mexico (at least where he grew up) but then, they are extremely family-oriented, while here we are more self-oriented.


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## asherah (Nov 25, 2001)

Well I guess I have outdated ideas about weddings.

I believe weddings are about creating community. They are about calling your loved ones together to support you and bear witness for you as you take sacred vows.. they are about joining two families and making them one... You are obligated to YOUR GUESTS, not vice-versa. The fact that you are paying for it doesn't mean you have no obligation to see to the comfort of your guests.

Excluding children is NOT in keeping with this.

Now, I understand this sacred tradition is vanishing, like so many others.
Now, most weddings are just consumerism and status, with couples wanting to showcase themselves in some perfect fantasy day, and guests are treated like theater audiences or window dressing instead of loved ones and participants in a sacred rite.

Of course many people who buy into the above would exlude children.
What, have crying ruin the picture post-card perfection?

We have totally lost our sense of what weddings are about.

That said.. I don't make a big deal out of it.
If my child isn't invited, I send regrets and a token gift.
I really don't like to go to "showcase" weddings anyway.
I prefer warm, welcoming, embracing, joyful ones that create community and include all loved ones.

Thankfully, my family and small circle of friends don't do the perfect showcase thing.

Our rites of passage have totally lost their sacredness.
Excluding children from bearing witness to the turning of the wheel is a glaring sign of that.


----------



## ceilydhmama (Mar 31, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *asherah*
Well I guess I have outdated ideas about weddings.

I believe weddings are about creating community. They are about calling your loved ones together to support you and bear witness for you as you take sacred vows.. they are about joining two families and making them one... You are obligated to YOUR GUESTS, not vice-versa. The fact that you are paying for it doesn't mean you have no obligation to see to the comfort of your guests.

Excluding children is NOT in keeping with this.

Now, I understand this sacred tradition is vanishing, like so many others.
Now, most weddings are just consumerism and status, with couples wanting to showcase themselves in some perfect fantasy day, and guests are treated like theater audiences or window dressing instead of loved ones and participants in a sacred rite.

Of course many people who buy into the above would exlude children.
What, have crying ruin the picture post-card perfection?

We have totally lost our sense of what weddings are about.

That said.. I don't make a big deal out of it.
If my child isn't invited, I send regrets and a token gift.
I really don't like to go to "showcase" weddings anyway.
I prefer warm, welcoming, embracing, joyful ones that create community and include all loved ones.

Thankfully, my family and small circle of friends don't do the perfect showcase thing.

Our rites of passage have totally lost their sacredness.
Excluding children from bearing witness to the turning of the wheel is a glaring sign of that.





































:


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## trolley (Apr 12, 2005)

I don't think it's fair to try to pass your opinion of what a wedding is onto other people's weddings. If you think it should include everyone, then in your wedding, invite everyone. It's not fair to judge other people who chose not to invite kids, saying they're wrong. I think people should make their wedding what they want to it be, not what other people expect, or demand of them.


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## MamaBug (Jun 13, 2003)

I have to say I also agree with what this PP said. We all have ideas of what our perfect wedding would be. For my wedding, it was at a lovely catering hall and was pretty upscale, and while I would not have minded the ring bearer and flower girl being there I know that at that point in my life ( pre children) I would not have wanted tons of kids running around. Add to the fact that it cost us $75 a plate it would have made things much more expensive for us. If someone was breastfeeding an infant, of course they need to either be at the wedding, or say in a room ( which I would not have minded paying for) if your affair was held at a hotel. So I think if your invited to a wedding and kids are not asked to come as well you need to make the choice to either respect the wishes of the bride ( as I did at my brother wedding) or not go.


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## asherah (Nov 25, 2001)

People can indeed have whatever kind of wedding they want.
But yeah, I am going to pass judgement, in that I am going to decide whether I want to go or not. I am very careful where I invest my time and energy.. AND my money.

And I am not interested in being someone's window dressing for their fantasy showcase. Especially if they want me to pay for a babysitter. Not interested in being part of that.

I am very happy to share joy and participate in a meaningful rite of passage, with family and loved ones.

I guess I also don't get the whole "dreaming of the perfect wedding day" thing.
It is about the MARRIAGE, not some play-fantasy and pretty dress.
It is about sacred vows, not place settings.

I think people's priorities are waaaay off when it comes to weddings.
They care more about whether a baby ruins their fantasy day then they do about family ties and community.
And yes, I judge this. I judge that anyone who feels this way does not share my values. And I choose not to participate in their production, which is MY right.


----------



## Rivka5 (Jul 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamameg*
Ummmm.... why not? If a couple is paying for their own wedding and the day they have dreamed of and planned for requires they put a limit on the guest list, why is that so awful?

Because they should decide who they want to have at the wedding, and then throw the kind of party they can afford for that number of people - rather than deciding how fancy they want the party to be, and then paring down the number of their friends and family until it fits.


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## trolley (Apr 12, 2005)

No one ever said a mother is required to attend a wedding without her baby. I think mutual respect is required. The bride and groom must respect the mother's right to decide what's right for her and her baby, but the mother needs to respect the bride and groom's right to invite whomever they want, and plan accordingly. I guess I just don't see why either side needs to be so darn hostile about it.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

So, what I am hearing from you Asherah, in short, is that if you are invited to a wedding and the hosts do not plan the wedding / invite people according to how YOU would like it, you won't attend? I mean it's your choice, but wow, that seems harsh to me. JMO.


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sweetest*
A few months ago one of our neighbors came over to tell us he and his live in girlfriend were getting married and he wanted to make sure he had our name and address right for the invitation. I specifically asked him "Thank you so much for inviting us, Should we make plans for a sitter or will it be appropriate to bring dd with us?" He said - "oh shes just little, she would be welcome!" (dd is 2) He even addressed the invitaiton with my name, dh's name and dds name - thre was no mistake that she was invited.

We get there and its a very formal,intimate wedding.







: I went outside with dd during the whole service and after that it was still very quiet and we told dd "this is a quiet party, we have to use our quiet voice" She said "*I CANT*" :LOL - We grabbed her and ran out of there. The other neighbors we were sitting with realized that we were gone and guessed what had happened. We didnt even get a canape. :LOL

I wish he would had just been honest with me and said it was going to be very formal. I even made a point to sound like we would get a sitter (we would have not gone).

If you want a black tie, long white table cloth type of wedding, fine. Its much better to say that upfront than to invite people you know have children and tell them children are welcome and then have the parents try to "make the baby behave".


Well, they should have warned you, that is for sure.


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamameg*
I think it is totally up to the bride and groom to have what ever sort of wedding they want. And if they don't want children there, I think that's fine. Not every event in life has to include the kids. I think it's perfectly fine to say "adults only", whatever the motivation.

But I also agree that then the bride and groom shouldn't get upset when people whith children decline the invite if they can't bring the kids along.

ETA: Am I the only one around here who longs for an adult only event? :LOL Don't get me wrong, I







my kids, but as a SAHM, I crave adult interaction! Maybe it's becuase we still don't have a sitter and have been out without the kids TWICE in 1.5 years, but I'd personally love to be invited to a adults only event right about now!










I am with you. I think "adults only" events are just fine. I also crave adult interaction.

I do not think that makes me, or anyone else a bad mother if they do not want to be with their child 24/7/365.

We had children in and at our wedding. But that was OUR choice. Other couples should get to have their choices. I also think the lack of parenting in this day and age, where people do not teach their children how to behave properly, is the reason behind this "adults only" thing.


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## ajsgirl (Mar 31, 2004)

Actually, I WAS forced to attend two weddings in one summer without my infant ds, who was nursing every 1-2 hours. Both my brothers got married in the same summer and children, including their only nephew (my ds, who was 5 months old) were not invited (the brides' decisions). I was in the wedding party and it was either be part of the wedding, without ds, or not go and lose a relationship with my brothers. I found all this out while I was pregnant and was absolutely devastated. One SIL was more flexible and ds was allowed to attend showers, rehearsals, dinners, etc, but not the ceremony or party afterward. The other SIL said no kids at ANY part. My parents finally stood up to her and told her she was being unreasonable and ds was finally allowed at the shower (which I couldn't go to anyway because ds was in hospital) and the rehearsal.

What angered me was that the one SIL (no kids of her own), told me that ds might wean himself by her wedding and if not, then I should just give him a bottle. I ended up pumping and giving ds the only few pumped bottles of his life. I am still resentful. Luckily, both receptions (not the ceremonies) were at places where my MIL could stay in a hotel room with him close by and I could run back to him occasionally, but not often enough to avoid the bottle, during the ceremony when I was far away for instance.

Now I can understand that some people can exclude children (not that I agree with it), but not a breastfeeding infant when the parents are part of the wedding.


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## Pen (Jul 23, 2005)

A good host/hostess tends to the guests.


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pen*
A good host/hostess tends to the guests.


I am not sure what you mean by that. But, a good guest politely declines when the circumstances of the invitation and event are not suited or convenient for them. A good guest also does not bring uninvited guests with him/her. And a good guest does not whine and try to get their way.


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## whateverdidiwants (Jan 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli*
No, of course you wouldn't write it, you simply would not invite Uncle Harry.

But would it be ok to invite Aunt Sally, his wife?


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## KirstenMary (Jun 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom*
We just got an invite to a *family* wedding where no 'children' under 21 are invited. ;-) Which means all the older cousins, except my older, adult-looking, but 16.5 yr old child is not invited. It's all about how much $ per plate, which is no way to start a life. I give this marraige two years, tops, anyway.

I am going to have strep throat that day. Maybe even avian flu.

Uh, I paid for my wedding myself, so you betcha that it was about the $$$. And it was a fine and _affordable_ way to start my new life.


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## KirstenMary (Jun 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *asherah*
People can indeed have whatever kind of wedding they want.
But yeah, I am going to pass judgement, in that I am going to decide whether I want to go or not. I am very careful where I invest my time and energy.. AND my money.

And I am not interested in being someone's window dressing for their fantasy showcase. Especially if they want me to pay for a babysitter. Not interested in being part of that.

I am very happy to share joy and participate in a meaningful rite of passage, with family and loved ones.

I guess I also don't get the whole "dreaming of the perfect wedding day" thing.
It is about the MARRIAGE, not some play-fantasy and pretty dress.
It is about sacred vows, not place settings.

I think people's priorities are waaaay off when it comes to weddings.
They care more about whether a baby ruins their fantasy day then they do about family ties and community.
And yes, I judge this. I judge that anyone who feels this way does not share my values. And I choose not to participate in their production, which is MY right.

Then it's probably better for the couple that you don't go.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whateverdidiwants*
But would it be ok to invite Aunt Sally, his wife?

Yes, if you wanted her to come. It's then her choice whether or not to attend the wedding without her husband.


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## whateverdidiwants (Jan 2, 2003)

But how many would people would have the balls to invite Aunt Sally and not Uncle Harry, if they're married? Seriously?


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

If Uncle Harry has misbehaved before to the extent that you want to exclude him from the wedding, I'm guessing that people, including Aunt Sally, would understand.

You are not obligated to invite ANYONE to your wedding or indeed any other function that you do not want to be there. Nobody that receives an invitation is obligated to attend. It's that simple.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KirstenMary*
Uh, I paid for my wedding myself, so you betcha that it was about the $$$. And it was a fine and _affordable_ way to start my new life.


I would have had strep for yours then, too. :LOL

One doesn't choose a fantasy over close family ties.

That said, i accept it, and I do understand that the only person who matters in weddings these days is the whiney bride.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom*
I would have had strep for yours then, too. :LOL

One doesn't choose a fantasy over close family ties.

That said, i accept it, and I do understand that the only person who matters in weddings these days is the whiney bride.

That depends on the family, I guess. Not all family ties are worth keeping. I agree about the fantasy wedding though, I've never understood the appeal. We just had our parents and a Justice of the Peace, then a small evening reception in a restaurant for a few close friends. But I don't expect other people to want the same thing, everyone is different. I don't get offended by other people's weddings, frankly I don't care that much.


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## lisalou (May 20, 2005)

We viewed our wedding as our community coming together to witness our commitment to each other to become husband and wife. Our community is made up of diverse individuals from all walks of life including children. And all of them signed our marriage certificate except for the 2 year old and my sister which just proves that sometimes children are far more mature than adults.

I know not all couples view a wedding as such and I respect that. And if you want to have a huge swell black tie event b/c you want a cool party, I may or may not be able to come.

What I really wish is that I could assume if I only see my name and my husband's name on an invitation it meant that only the two of us were invited. We went to the wedding of my best man where that's who the invite was addressed to, I was lucky my mom could babysit and then I got berated for not bring dd with.







:


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli*
That depends on the family, I guess. Not all family ties are worth keeping. I agree about the fantasy wedding though, I've never understood the appeal. We just had our parents and a Justice of the Peace, then a small evening reception in a restaurant for a few close friends. But I don't expect other people to want the same thing, everyone is different. I don't get offended by other people's weddings, frankly I don't care that much.

I agree that not all family ties are worth preserving. And i agree that epople can invite whoever they want. No question there.

This is an awesome family and i cannot imgaine not attending her special day. thank you for helping me see the light.


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## KirstenMary (Jun 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom*
I would have had strep for yours then, too. :LOL

One doesn't choose a fantasy over close family ties.

That said, i accept it, and I do understand that the only person who matters in weddings these days is the whiney bride.

You are quite negative, and I don't really get it. A bride wanting her wedding day her way is _not_ choosing a fantasy over family ties. Sometimes, it's about wanting a certain degree of grace and dignity. It's about the bride not wanting to get her dress ripped by someone's _precious_ three-year old. It's about the couple not wanting to see the wedding cake mauled by the grubby palms of a sweet-deprived four year old. It's about the bride and groom and what _they_ want. And what they can _afford_.

I also sense a little bridal envy on your part.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom*
Hey--maybe this woman is trying to get rid of me by not inviting this one cousin, who happens to be my nearly-adult son who is under 21 (when all the other cousins, except my little ones, who i accept are not invited, and frankly they don't want to go, although my teen does. takeabreath) are over 21. The 21 cutoff seems like a cheap tactic, imo. Have the menu be steak instead of lobster, for god's sake. It's all about being showy in this case.

As the legal drinking age in the US is 21, I wonder if it may be that the venue does not allow under 21s. Could be that they don't want to risk serving under age, and don't want to card at a function like this.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KirstenMary*
You are quite negative, and I don't really get it. A bride wanting her wedding day her way is _not_ choosing a fantasy over family ties. Sometimes, it's about wanting a certain degree of grace and dignity. It's about the bride not wanting to get her dress ripped by someone's _precious_ three-year old. It's about the couple not wanting to see the wedding cake mauled by the grubby palms of a sweet-deprived four year old. It's about the bride and groom and what _they_ want. And what they can _afford_.

I also sense a little bridal envy on your part.









Now, now. You're not paying attention. The wedding i am talking about is cutting off anyone under 21.

I like a nice wedding as much as anyone.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli*
As the legal drinking age in the US is 21, I wonder if it may be that the venue does not allow under 21s. Could be that they don't want to risk serving under age, and don't want to card at a function like this.


Ah, no.

I am not getting why this is bothering anyone. :LOL

Edited for TMI


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## Jane (May 15, 2002)

I specifically invited children to our wedding, although I did not have them as attendants because I wanted an adult ceremony.

But I wouldn't suggest that I could know what a marriage is supposed to be for someone else, or what kind of ceremony would best represent that bond. I think everyone's been to a wedding where you're thinking 'Is is awful that I'm giving them 6 months based on their behavior today?" But I don't think that feeling is based on having kids or not having kids there.


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## MAMom (Mar 24, 2005)

I didn't want or invite any kids to my wedding. It was my day, and I didn't want kids there. Some events are adult-only, and my wedding was one of them - and I don't regret that choice, even now that I have a DS (who's not been invited to one of the 4-5 weddings we've been to since he was born.)


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Apricot*
I
ng them 6 months based on their behavior today?" But I don't think that feeling is based on having kids or not having kids there.


esp when it's not kids who get drunk and drool all over the place.


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## gratefulbambina (Mar 20, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom*
I would have had strep for yours then, too. :LOL

One doesn't choose a fantasy over close family ties.

That said, i accept it, and I do understand that the only person who matters in weddings these days is the whiney bride.


This statement makes me feel like you would be the selfish one, its your way or you get sick.

The day is for the bride & groom, they arent the only ones that matter, but they are the MAIN ones

Most every woman grows up & dreams what they're wedding day is going to be with & over the years sometimes that vision changes & sometimes it doesnt. I dont think that you should fault anyone for their views on THEIR perfect day.

Im not saying that you have to go, but I dont think its right for you to be upset with the bride, groom, whomever on their choice for their day.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gratefulbambina*
This statement makes me feel like you would be the selfish one, its your way or you get sick.

The day is for the bride & groom, they arent the only ones that matter, but they are the MAIN ones

Most every woman grows up & dreams what they're wedding day is going to be with & over the years sometimes that vision changes & sometimes it doesnt. I dont think that you should fault anyone for their views on THEIR perfect day.

Im not saying that you have to go, but I dont think its right for you to be upset with the bride, groom, whomever on their choice for their day.

Ok, you've convinced me. I'll go.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

double post


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom*
I'm not sick because I don't want to go to the wedding. I will type slowly. I am going to be sick because it's easier that way and my child can go with dh in my place. He really wants to go and be with his cousins at a big, cool hyper city-hotel party. It will cause issues if i offer to transfer my meal to my child or if i ask that he be invited.

You seem to be missing the basic understanding about invitations. Your son was not invited - the fact that you are not going to go does not invite your son. That you think he was not invited so the menu would be more elaborate is irrelevant.

You may find that the big cool city hotel will not allow your son into the function. Whether they do or not, it is incredibly rude to send someone else on your invitation. The wedding is not about pleasing your son.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli*
You seem to be missing the basic understanding about invitations. Your son was not invited - the fact that you are not going to go does not invite your son. That you think he was not invited so the menu would be more elaborate is irrelevant.

You may find that the big cool city hotel will not allow your son into the function. Whether they do or not, it is incredibly rude to send someone else on your invitation. The wedding is not about pleasing your son.


This is a private party- they do not card private parties. Not to mention we've all been to several wedding at this place.

It's not rude, because it's about money, not about who in particular is there.

I know this family. It will be fine. Don't worry. It would be worse if i told my MIL, believeme. Don't worry about it.







I can certainly handle this on my own. thank you for being concerned, however. i think you are quite over-reacting.


----------



## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom*
This is a private party- they do not card private parties.

It's not rude, because it's about money, not about who in particular is there.

I know this family. It will be fine. Don't worry. It would be worse if i told my MIL, believe me. beleive me. Don't worry about it.









That they don't card private parties is my point - they probably do not allow under 21s to attend for that very reason - to avoid serving under age.

I don't understand all of this about telling your mother in law. It's not her wedding. You are making the assumption that it's all about money, but you have no proof of that. It's still incredibly rude to send someone else on your invitation. An invitation is not like a free pass to a nightclub - it's not transferrable.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

And just wondering what part of:

[[I am going to be there with bells on. I've no doubt it will be a very fun and grand party]]

Don't you get?

You've all convinced me to mend my evil ways. The bride is a loving, generous and thoughtful person. She needs me there to celebreate such a wonderful day.


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## gratefulbambina (Mar 20, 2005)

You posted your business on a message board. Noone is getting into your business you broadcasted that for everyone to read & be involved in.

and some places put an age limit on small functions so they dont have to card or hire security/police at places that serve alchohol. You may not know this fact, but it does exist. If the invite did not invite your son then your son is not invited. Im not saying that you should agree or disagree or attend or not attend the wedding Im just saying was is correct & incorrect. If you have a personal problem with the bride which at this point is very obvious & dont feel like attending HER & THE GROOMS day then dont go, but passing on the invite to someone else is their option, not yours or your MIL


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gratefulbambina*
You posted your business on a message board. Noone is getting into your business you broadcasted that for everyone to read & be involved in.

and some places put an age limit on small functions so they dont have to card or hire security/police at places that serve alchohol. You may not know this fact, but it does exist. If the invite did not invite your son then your son is not invited. Im not saying that you should agree or disagree or attend or not attend the wedding Im just saying was is correct & incorrect. If you have a personal problem with the bride which at this point is very obvious & dont feel like attending HER & THE GROOMS day then dont go, but passing on the invite to someone else is their option, not yours or your MIL

Oh my goodness, get a grip. really, get a grip. You folks are way too emotionally involved.

Methinks a lot of people who dissed kids at their own weddings are feeling a bit guilty







. I hope you're able to move on now that you've shown me back from the pit of hell . I've seen the wedding light.

It the *bride's* day







I love mainstream family values.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom*
Oh my goodness, get a grip. really, get a grip. You folks are way too emotionally involved.










We didn't give you advice as to what to do, just pointed out the correct etiquette. You are free to flout it as you please. Nothing emotional about it.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli*
Yes, if you wanted her to come. It's then her choice whether or not to attend the wedding without her husband.

yes- that's not going to cause any family problems the bride will have to deal with.


----------



## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli*
We didn't give you advice as to what to do, just pointed out the correct etiquette. Nothing emotional about it.

In this case, you have no idea what you're talking about. I already mentioned this girl had a 'Geenbacks only, please' ladies bridal luncheon.







Eiiquette doesn't play a role in this one.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom*
yes- that's not going to cause any family problems the bride will have to deal with.

We are discussing etiquette, not dysfunctional families.


----------



## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom*
Oh my goodness, get a grip. really, get a grip. You folks are way too emotionally involved.

Methinks a lot of people who dissed kids at their own weddings are feeling a bit guilty







. I hope you're able to move on now that you've shown me back from the pit of hell . I've seen the wedding light.

It the *bride's* day







I love mainstream family values.

Well, it certainly isn't your son's day.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom*
In this case, you have no idea what you're talking about. I already mentioned this girl had a 'Geenbacks only, please' ladies bridal luncheon.







Eiiquette doesn't play a role in this one.

Etiquette does not change based on your opinion of the bride, though. The invitation is still not transferrable.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli*
We are discussing etiquette, not dysfunctional families.


I'm giggling, but not snarking. Everyone's personal defination of 'etiquette' is part of the life blood of family dysfuntion.

It's only drunkards at weddings who put the fun back in dysfunctional. (old joke, but still makes me smile).

Weddings 'by the book', is a nice suggestion, but emotions run too high when a girl is looking to play Cinderella for a day.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli*
Etiquette does not change based on your opinion of the bride, though. The invitation is still not transferrable.

So you keep saying.

Is it also your peronsal opinion that "Greenbacks only, pleae' is proper etiquette?
I know a lot of people think it is, so i am just asking.

Btw, telling you what the invitation said, isn't an 'opinion of the bride'-- it's a statement.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom*
So you keep saying.

Is it also your peronsal opinion that "Greenbacks only, pleae' is proper etiquette?
I know a lot of people think it is, so i am just asking.

No, I don't think that "Greenbacks only" is proper etiquette.

That still does not make the invitation transferrable, though.


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## whateverdidiwants (Jan 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli*
Etiquette does not change based on your opinion of the bride, though. The invitation is still not transferrable.

If they've already RSVP'd for 2, I wonder what would piss the bride off more:
a)paying for an uneaten lobster dinner
b)having an unauthorized family member attend.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whateverdidiwants*
If they've already RSVP'd for 2, I wonder what would piss the bride off more:
a)paying for an uneaten lobster dinner
b)having an unauthorized family member attend.

That would be best found out by asking the bride.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli*
No, I don't think that "Greenbacks only" is proper etiquette.

That still does not make the invitation transferrable, though.


but it does take 'etiquette' out of the equation for me. (although you;re still going on even though i said i was going. I just don't know how to make you *happy*. sniff....

Oops, that means I'm *rude*. :LOL

That's upsetting you all. Sorry about that. Avert your eyes.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli*
That would be best found out by asking the bride.


But i don't want to upset the bride. It's her day.

At any rate, i'm going, and i would *never* let any family pay for a dish that wouldn't get eaten. I actually asked for a veg dish, as neither my ds nor i eat sea roaches.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom*
but it does take 'etiquette' out of the equation for me. (although you;re still going on even though i said i was going. I just don't know how to make you *happy*. sniff....

Oops, that means I'm *rude*. :LOL

That's upsetting you all. Sorry about that. Avert your eyes.

Enjoy the free dinner.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli*
Enjoy the free dinner.

I am more going to enjoy the open bar.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli*
Well, it certainly isn't your son's day.

That's weak. :LOL .


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## SneakyPie (Jan 13, 2002)

Hey, where's that popcorn-eatin' smiley when I need it? :LOL

I guess I would have to reluctantly agree that people may invite whomever they choose to invite (although it distresses me a little to break up families along age lines). And of course that the marrying couple must accept that not everyone will be able to accept their invitations, for many reasons. We do have unspoken expectations, though, that certain invitees "just HAVE to be there," and unfortunately a couple sometimes gets that part all tangled up in their notion of their "perfect day." I agree with several previous posters that that's where etiquette sometimes breaks down completely -- issuing any kind of invitation you wish, planning "your day" however you wish, and then gettintg completely bent if certain people decline FOR ANY REASON. Yet what can the invitee do? In these cases there is no way to keep the peace -- go and be miserable (can't nurse baby, uninvited child sick at out-of-town hotel, etc.) or decline and get berated for duration of marriage. Because of unreasonable expectations, someone is going to lose. And that's ugly to me.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom*
That's weak. :LOL .

But true.


----------



## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SneakyPie*
I agree with several previous posters that that's where etiquette sometimes breaks down completely -- issuing any kind of invitation you wish, planning "your day" however you wish, and then gettintg completely bent if certain people decline FOR ANY REASON. Yet what can the invitee do? In these cases there is no way to keep the peace -- go and be miserable (can't nurse baby, uninvited child sick at out-of-town hotel, etc.) or decline and get berated for duration of marriage. Because of unreasonable expectations, someone is going to lose. And that's ugly to me.

In my experience, most people are quick enough to get over it when an invitee declines. If someone did get upset, it wouldn't have an effect on my decision. Other people's unreasonable expectations do not translate into orders for me.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gratefulbambina*
You posted your business on a message board. Noone is getting into your business you broadcasted that for everyone to read & be involved in.

and some places put an age limit on small functions so they dont have to card or hire security/police at places that serve alchohol. You may not know this fact, but it does exist. If the invite did not invite your son then your son is not invited. Im not saying that you should agree or disagree or attend or not attend the wedding Im just saying was is correct & incorrect. If you have a personal problem with the bride which at this point is very obvious & dont feel like attending HER & THE GROOMS day then dont go, but passing on the invite to someone else is their option, not yours or your MIL


I did also want to mention that I most certainly do not have a 'personal problem' with the bride at all. Not thinking the marraige will last doesn't mean i have a problem with either of them, so you maybe projecting someof your own bride issues onto my situation. If I have any opinion, I think they are sweet kids, although quite immature. My 'opinion' is no more personal than that.

I am not embracing your advice on whether I attend this wedding or not, or my child goes or not, or how to interpret their wedding invitation etc., because not once did I ask for any advice.







Just giving the facts, not being wicked snarky, so don't be upset if i don't care what your particular opionion on this is, 'kay?

Just wanted to clarify.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli*
In my experience, most people are quick enough to get over it when an invitee declines. If someone did get upset, it wouldn't have an effect on my decision. Other people's unreasonable expectations do not translate into orders for me.









Are you planning some sort of Cinderella bash, where close family members feelings don't mean anything? Where an old aunt's wish is read as an order?

Come clean.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli*
But true.


Nope :LOL Nothing of the such was ever said. it's a snarky stretch and miss on your part.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

SneakyPie said:


> Hey, where's that popcorn-eatin' smiley when I need it? :LOL
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom*
Nope :LOL Nothing of the such was ever said. it's a snarky stretch and miss on your part.

Do you mean to day that I am wrong and it IS your son's day?


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli*
Do you mean to day that I am wrong and it IS your son's day?


I'm sorry, Alex. I am going to need some clarification on this question.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom*
Are you planning some sort of Cinderella bash, where close family members feelings don't mean anything? Where an old aunt's wish is read as an order?

Come clean.









I posted before that my wedding consisted of our parents, ourselves, and a justice of the peace. A small restaurant reception that night for around 15 close friends.

I wouldn't do the Cinderella thing because I don't like formal occasions, and I don't think spending the price of a house downpayment on one day's entertainment is a smart move.

But, I don't expect other people to feel as I do. Everyone is entitled at least attempt the wedding they want.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom*
I'm sorry, Alex. I am going to need some clarification on this question.

Go and ask Alex, then, it's a perfectly clear question.


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## gratefulbambina (Mar 20, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom*
I did also want to mention that I most certainly do not have a 'personal problem' with the bride at all. Not thinking the marraige will last doesn't mean i have a problem with either of them, so you maybe projecting someof your own bride issues onto my situation. If I have any opinion, I think they are sweet kids, although quite immature. My 'opinion' is no more personal than that.

I am not embracing your advice on whether I attend this wedding or not, or my child goes or not, or how to interpret their wedding invitation etc., because not once did I ask for any advice.







Just giving the facts, not being wicked snarky, so don't be upset if i don't care what your particular opionion on this is, 'kay?

Just wanted to clarify.

I took that you had a problem with the bride when you made your whiney bride statement...


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## onlyzombiecat (Aug 15, 2004)

I think it is up to the bride and groom whom to invite- and the invitee to decide if they will attend under those conditions. I don't have a problem with that in general. I don't think all events are kid friendly and they do not have to be.

If the bridal couple gets mad at a guest for not attending because their children can not come than that is wrong. It is no small thing to leave a baby or find child care for any age and that should be understood. Not everyone is comfortable leaving their child with a random caregiver.
If a couple has a child in the wedding party then I think it is wrong to demand that that child leave once they've done their bit.
It seems pretty ridiculous to exclude teenagers. I don't feel wanting to provide alcohol without carding at a reception is a very good excuse to exclude them entirely from a wedding.
I don't personally like the idea that kids are "invited" but shuffled off to a babysitter asap. Kind of "you are invited but not really... now go with the rest of the riff raff so the real guests can enjoy themselves". Inviting them to a simultaneous children's party gives it a much nicer feel but I think you have to be prepared that some kids might not want to go to (or stay at) the fun kid's party you planned and still end up with their parents. Hopefully the bridal couple will react with grace and consideration for their guests if that happens.

We had children at our wedding and it was fine. It was a family focused event. It wasn't a huge wild drunken party lasting until 3 AM or a highly scripted princess production. The ceremony was not super long. There were balloons to play with and kid friendly foods at the reception. None of the children were destructive or disruptive at all. We were very happy with our day. Everyone seemed to have a good time.
Some things didn't go as planned but we were flexible and positive. The important part was dh and I exchanging vows and joining our lives. The rest was whatever it was.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *onlyzombiecat*
If a couple has a child in the wedding party then I think it is wrong to demand that that child leave once they've done their bit.

I totally agree with this. Treating anyone as though they are a decoration that is not wanted once the ceremony is over is just so wrong. I wouldn't let my child be in a wedding party just to be shunted off afterward.


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## asherah (Nov 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic*
So, what I am hearing from you Asherah, in short, is that if you are invited to a wedding and the hosts do not plan the wedding / invite people according to how YOU would like it, you won't attend? I mean it's your choice, but wow, that seems harsh to me. JMO.


Um, well, nooo.. that is a simplistic and snarky interpretation of what I said.
I said I have no desire to be window-dressing at somebody's consumerist, selfish fantasy pageant.

Not inviting children is only ONE indication the wedding is going to be more about appearances and status than about community and family and love.
But it is a pretty GOOD indication.

And just reading the posts here confirm my views that peoples' priorities about weddings are soooo off.

And for the record, I don't whine or say anything unpleasant when invited to be someone's theater audience and asked to pay for a babysitter. I simply decline and send a nice gift.

But, again.. thankfully, my family and friends generally have their priorities straight about sacred rites of passage. So it isn't really a major issue in my life.

But really, if people think a wedding is just all "about the bride and groom".. I don't get why they don't just elope.
Or, if you don't care about the comfort of your family and friends.. if you don't care about creating community among the people who witness your vows..why not just hire well dressed movie extras? Your pictures would REALLY be just perfect, then. No reality at all to spoil your fantasy.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gratefulbambina*
I took that you had a problem with the bride when you made your whiney bride statement...

For clarification purposes, I thought it was your heated responses that were projecting whiney bride-ish.


----------



## Jane (May 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *asherah*
And just reading the posts here confirm my views that peoples' priorities about weddings are soooo off.
...
But, again.. thankfully, my family and friends generally have their priorities straight about sacred rites of passage. So it isn't really a major issue in my life.

You really think that your view of marriage is the only correct one?


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## asherah (Nov 25, 2001)

It is correct for ME.
I am talking about weddings I will and won't go to. I am talking about my views and choices, which I am perfectly entitled to.

Other people can have the fanciest, most child-free, most picture-perfect, Bride Magazine weddings they want. I am not advocating for a law against them.

But if they ask ME to attend.. I won't be going.
Why do people have such a problem with that?
I don't wish to take part in a ritual that rings empty to me. MY choice.. for myself.

No, I have no respect for those sorts of wedding productions.
Yes, I think many people's priorities about weddings are waaay off. But then, they match the consumerist priorities of our culture.
No, I don't understand people who have such weddings. I can't relate to them and I don't like them. So why would I want to go? And why would someone interested in such things even want me there?

I don't quite understand why this seems to be getting under so many people's skin here.

You don't agree with me, cool. You don't have to invite me to your wedding.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom*
Nope :LOL Nothing of the such was ever said. it's a snarky stretch and miss on your part.

I didn't say you said it, reread. I just said it certainly is not your son's day.


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## gratefulbambina (Mar 20, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom*
I would have had strep for yours then, too. :LOL

One doesn't choose a fantasy over close family ties.

That said, i accept it, and I do understand that the only person who matters in weddings these days is the whiney bride.


This was said before "I" said anything to you


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## kewb (May 13, 2005)

I have been reading this thread with interest. I had a Black Tie formal wedding and there were no kids invited. My husbands grandmother gave my dh some grief about her grandchildren not being invited. When he pointed out that he was also her grandchild she stopped talking to him about it.

If I had to do it all over again, now that I am a parent, I still would not invite kids. I dislike taking my children to affairs like the one I had. I do not get to enjoy myself because I am always worried about what they are doing/going/etc. I also enjoy the occasional night out without my children.

There were people who did not come to our wedding due to their kids not being invited. That was there right. I did not whine or rail at the G-ds that they were out to ruin my day. We just were invited to an affair where the kids are not invited. We are not attending due to the fact that a sitter will be too expensive for the amount of time we will be out. I am not angry my children were not invited. I would never dream about complaining about it. It is not my affair. I am an invited guest who can choose to attend or not. It is not a personal attack on me if someone does not want to pay for my children or if they want a very formal affair without children running around being children.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Okay Asherah, everyone is entitled to their opinions. Ours differ, of course, but that's the beauty of diversity. But I do have one more comment to put to you (and anyone else who might want to comment). Everyone here keeps talking about the bride and groom's right in a big, fancy, expensive wedding. What about private ceremonies? Are those selfish, too?

My dh and I (who were 30 and 45 years old at the time) decided that we wanted the ceremony to be for ourselves ONLY. We struggled with this decision for over a year but could come to no good alternative. If we had married in the US, it would have hurt his family in Turkey... if we had married there, my family would be hurt. Sometimes feelings are hurt, but you can't please everyone. And in the end, bride and groom should be the ones with the fond memories of this rite of passage. Not anyone else. And in the end for us... we made great plans to elope to Malta... we had the time of our lives, nobody's feelings were hurt and still at night we sometimes whisper to each other about our magical time there. And I have yet to meet a person that hasn't said to me, "Man, I wish we had done the same thing. By the time we got married, I was so tired of trying to please everyone, I just wanted to get it over with." That's sad. So just because it's the bride and groom's preference, doesn't mean it's a commercial consumerism nightmare. But no matter, it's still up to the couple.

I'm sure having a huge family wedding is best for some, but it's not for everyone and it's not up to us (as guests) to decide what is best for the bride and groom. Everyone should have the wedding of their dreams. If that means no kids, who am I to spoil the fun or get mad at them? I guess I'm just not so hypersensitive to think that if someone says "no kids" that it's a personal affront toward me.


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## MamaBug (Jun 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *asherah*
Um, well, nooo.. that is a simplistic and snarky interpretation of what I said.
I said I have no desire to be window-dressing at somebody's consumerist, selfish fantasy pageant.

Not inviting children is only ONE indication the wedding is going to be more about appearances and status than about community and family and love.
But it is a pretty GOOD indication.

And just reading the posts here confirm my views that peoples' priorities about weddings are soooo off.

And for the record, I don't whine or say anything unpleasant when invited to be someone's theater audience and asked to pay for a babysitter. I simply decline and send a nice gift.

But, again.. thankfully, my family and friends generally have their priorities straight about sacred rites of passage. So it isn't really a major issue in my life.

But really, if people think a wedding is just all "about the bride and groom".. I don't get why they don't just elope.
Or, if you don't care about the comfort of your family and friends.. if you don't care about creating community among the people who witness your vows..why not just hire well dressed movie extras? Your pictures would REALLY be just perfect, then. No reality at all to spoil your fantasy.

If you were to step back and actually read how you come across you would understand why ppl are taking issue with what you are saying. You are saying that just because I had a formal affair and wanted to look a certain way at my wedding, that I don't take my scared vows seriously. You also say that because children were not invited that I cared more about appearances then my family and friends. This could not be farther from the truth and you know nothing about me, my life or my committment to my family and friends. You are not just saying that you would not attend you are condeming anyone that didn't do what *you* did, which is wrong.

I have no problem that you don't see the point in a fancier wedding then you had but it does not make it wrong that I and others made that choice. Like many ppl said, it is the invitees choice to come or not, it is also their choice to discuss with the bride why they made that choice and the bride can adjust is she desires. But even if the bride won't adjust her wedding plan, that is HER choice, and she should be fine if ppl don't attend. I was not one of those brides, I would have made adjustments to accomodate babies, but if ppl didn't ask me to make adjustments and they just went around complaining about me, well then it's their fault now isn't it? You assume that most brides won't make adjustments.

I have been married 11 years and I know that despite my fancy, child free, brides magazine wedding I am more committed and content in my marriage then anyone else I know. My wedding was not a production, we had and still do have our priorities in place, and we took our vows very seriously.

It is you who has an issue as do others on this thread. It IS about the bride and groom, it is their party and they can invite who ever they want. And yes $$ is a factor, and ppl have the right to spend their $$ any way they want. And just because they don't spend it like you would does not make it wrong. That is my problem with the replies on this thread. It's ok to like what you like and to think others are wasting $$, it's not ok to say my priorities are out of line if I want to spend my $$ and my day differently then you might.

I also have to add that I agree that a wedding invitation is not transferable. If your sons name is not on the invite then he is not invited, period. I could care less whether your son goes or not in your place, your the one who has to deal with any fallout. Just wanted to share my thoughts on that.


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## MamaBug (Jun 13, 2003)

velochic I think your wedding sounds lovely. And no you were not selfish, you did what rang true for you and that is what matters.


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## Cullens_Girl (Feb 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *oddeebean*
I loved having kids at my wedding, they were all great and we had a separate room for them with movies and kid food when they got bored or cranky.


What a great idea!


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## Pen (Jul 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TinkerBelle*
I am not sure what you mean by that. But, a good guest politely declines when the circumstances of the invitation and event are not suited or convenient for them. A good guest also does not bring uninvited guests with him/her. And a good guest does not whine and try to get their way.

Ah, yes. A good guest is also respectful of her hostess. Thank you.


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## MamaBug (Jun 13, 2003)

oddeebean I missed your post and I have to agree with Dani that sounds like a great idea. Most halls/hotels certainly have extra rooms where that sort of thing could be set up, and sitters could be hired.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

I can't find a post to quote, but it seems to me that a lot of the tension around kids not being invited has to do with families traveling long distances. So, is it or is it not about kids actually ATTENDING the service/ceremony or it is about having to leave kids at home (a great distance from the wedding... I've been reading about separate rooms, babysitting, etc. during the ACTUAL wedding ceremony.) Because for me, I would just be upfront with the couple and say, "Hey, we're traveling 1000 miles to be at your wedding, I have a nursling/toddler (who might be a nursling), can you arrange for the young ones to be taken care of during the actual ceremony?" I'm getting the picture that "wedding" is not meaning "ceremony" in this thread, but rather the WHOLE WEEKEND surrounding the 30 minutes of vows and music.

ETA: I don't mean just a nursing child above because at almost 4, dd has never spent a night away from us. There is no way I'd leave her at home to just go to wedding. But it's MY decision to decline the invitation.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

And BTW - where is Zombiwaif, who started this thread?


----------



## MamaBug (Jun 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic*
And BTW - where is Zombiwaif, who started this thread?


She got scared and left :LOL


----------



## asherah (Nov 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaBug*
It IS about the bride and groom, it is their party and they can invite who ever they want.

Uh, no, traditionally it is NOT.
Weddings were not "about the bride and groom" until quite recently, and even now, not everywhere, thank goodness.
Weddings were traditionally about two families forming an alliance.

And they were about calling in the community to witness a joining.
Because people have always know such joinings are difficult to maintain.
They felt having witnesses to remember the vows would help keep the couple together in difficult times.

The whole "about the bride and groom" thing is a very modern invention.
And yes, in my opinion, it is a lousy, selfish evolution of a tradition that once spoke of connectedness and community.

I don't think those of you who prefer the fancy, showcase weddings are BAD people.
But yes, I don't agree with or respect your choice.
I can't imagine why you care, I am just a perfect stranger on the internet.
Why should you care what I think?
I am just talking on a discussion board, not calling for you to be publicly flogged.

U.S. culture has become utterly devoid of meaningful rites of passage.
So many things have been stripped of their sacredness and turned into showcases. That includes many modern weddings. In MY little, unimportant opinion.

The rest of you can are all free to do what you want.
But I don't have to like it or respect it, and I don't have to participate in it.
And I don't, and I won't.
Does this mean I am casting judgement on your very existance as a human being?
Noo. It means I don't agree with your choice in this matter.

And to answer another question posed to me.. no, I have no issue with private weddings. I think they are completely appropriate alternatives. Then, you can do whatever you want without asking other people to sacrifice or pay for sitters or be uncomfortable in any way.

And for the record, I don't know why people equate inclusive weddings with LARGE ones.
I had a very small wedding.
Close family and friends only.. just the people who we NEEDED to witness our joining.
We chose to spend our money making these few people feel as comfortable and welcomed and valued as we possibly could, to show our gratitude for their coming to witness for us. We were GRATEFUL to them for coming to support us. We chose to focus on our COMMUNITY, not on ourselves. A rather different perspective than "its all about the bride and groom."

Interesting how offended people are getting here.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *asherah*
Uh, no, traditionally it is NOT.
Weddings were not "about the bride and groom" until quite recently, and even now, not everywhere, thank goodness.
Weddings were traditionally about two families forming an alliance.

And they were about calling in the community to witness a joining.
Because people have always know such joinings are difficult to maintain.
They felt having witnesses to remember the vows would help keep the couple together in difficult times.


Okay, if we're going to go down this road as a justification for looking with contempt at 'modern' wedding etiquette/customs...let's not forget that weddings (and more importantly MARRIAGE--at least in the Western world) owe their very existance to *property* rights, sucession, and consolidation. This is more or less universal across cultures. Parents used their children to gain property, to settle a political affair, ect. Marrying for love, or for a sacred vow between two *individuals* is extremely modern.

People who didn't have property or some other holding by and large did not marry at all--that was true even well into the 1800s in this country (and one of the reasons why the median age of marriage then was almost as high as it is now). And marriages stayed together not because of the couple being afraid of breaking their vows to each other, but because of the implications it would have both on their social standing and potentially the destruction it would cause their families. Not to mention the fact that for the woman (though by no means was the man exempt from this) virtually useless to her family, which might very well but her in mortal danger.

People NOW marry (predominantly, in this culture, whatever qualifications you wish to add on here) for love. The love BETWEEN THE INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE. People don't have to wait until their parents arrange it, or for someone to die and give them an inheritance. In most cases, they will not be killed for marrying the wrong person. Disowning, in our current Western society, is practically meaningless. It is not, pragmatically, a union between two families--it's only rarely that the two families even know each other well in the beginning, and most of the time the couple is treated as a separate, individual unit that divides their time between the two larger families--they do not solidify into one larger clan.

It's perfectly logical, given modern behavior and how the very nature of marriage has changed over time, that people assume that a 'wedding' is all about the bride and groom. Because 90 percent of the time it is. One hopes that the B&G will welcome all of those important to them with open arms. But the wedding as a stand-in for the unification of two distinct clans into one is no more realistic than expecting the birth of a child to welcome the mother into a new sacred circle of grandmothers, mothers, sisters, aunties, greataunts, ect. where childrearing is shared and taught and the burden is shared. We might agree that it SHOULD be this way, but it's not for a lot of people--and I would hope that no one would shove it down an unwilling person's throat.

It's insulting, and hurtful even on a primal level, when you try to force your idea of the sacred onto someone else and openly mock anyone who feels differently. No one is saying that you can't see your wedding as a sacred ritual. For you, it might well be a communal sacred event--I'm happy for you, and probably would enjoy going to that kind of wedding. Others may not be as enlightened (they may be going through their own traditional path, or influenced by the 'should' list), or they may--frankly--not see their personal vows as something that the larger community should have any input on.

I hate large social events. We eloped to Las Vegas, and it was loads better than my first marriage, even though 'the relatives' bitched about it. They had their choice to come or not, and most didn't. But you see, I am a largerly clanless person, as is DH, and our primary committment is to each other. Our wedding was not a sacred community/family space. It was a way to celebrate OUR personal committment to each other. When I look at other people choosing to celebrate their committment in a way that makes me cringe, I think about how it made me feel to have relatives who didn't even bother to find out how I felt or why I felt that way denigrate my choices and saying in a very ugly way that they were going to punish me by not coming and loudly proclaiming that they weren't going to honor it with a gift (even though I didn't give a rat's behind about gifts, we already had too many belongings as is--the contempt HURT). Yeah, that turned out to be a big blessing in disguise. But I do remember how horrible that made me feel, and I won't do that to someone else.


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## MamaBug (Jun 13, 2003)

:

Very well said.

asherah, I honestly don't care what you think of my wedding. My wedding was everything my husband and I wanted and needed it to be. It was wonderful, beautiful, meaningful, full of tradition, and was also witnessed the ppl who mean the most to us.
You just proved my point in your post though, you only invited the ppl YOU needed there. What if there was someone your mother or father needed there, I am sure you never considered or even asked them. But whatever, you had the wedding you wanted.

The reason ppl got upset is not that you personally don't like those kinds of weddings but that you are saying they don't take their vows as seriously....which is just rude. This is a large message board of mostly kind and caring ppl, we try hard not to purposely hurt each others feelings and I feel that you didn't even take that in to consideration in most of your posts. Please re-read your posts and you will see that. Again, I don't really care what you think but it is rude to make judgements of ppl that you don't know.


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## Stephanie6603 (Oct 14, 2005)

I too think it's up to the bride and groom and the atmosphere and style wedding. In NY and an italian wedding we had it is very dressy and formal and fun. Young children are usually not included, plus, who would want to keep their child up till mindnight anyway. Our wedding started cocktail hour at 6pm and reception at 7 and the people had to get people off the dance floor at midnight after the venetian hour (sp?). Our nephews were included in the wedding party...they were 4 and 7 at the time and they had a blast and ended up crashing around 10pm sleeping on the couch in their tuxes. Too cute. But luckily, i didn't have any really close younger children to worry about, I did though had two friends with infants and they were very happy to get a sitter and enjoy a night out. It is kind of understood with our "type" of weddings, ya know, NY, italian weddings..lol...big and loud, just kidding!

edited to say, kids were welcome to our ceremony


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## asherah (Nov 25, 2001)

Actually, I DID ask.
My mother asked that I also invite my aunt, so I did.
My mother-in-law also had a request, which we honored.
Talk about making some utterly unfounded assumptions.
You don't like what I have to say, so you post assumptions about my behavior? Give me a break.

I am not foisting my views on anyone. Am I crashing weddings and demanding they be halted or re-worked to my satisfaction? Am I sending nasty letters with my regrets? Am I dissing everyone's wedding irl at the top of my lungs?

Uh, no. I have said REPEATEDLY that all I do irl is send polite regrets and a gift.

I am expressing an opinion on a discussion board. That is rather different than foisting my views on others. Aren't discussion boards places where you discuss things? Or am I to be silenced because I have a point of view you don't like?

Others are choosing to take those opinions very personally, as though I had posted "hey so-and-so, I think you are a selfish twit and your wedding sucked."

I made general posts on a general topic.
I haven't attacked anyone personally and I have not foisted anything on anyone. And nowhere.. NOWHERE.. did I say that "they don't take their vows as seriously." That is you putting words in my mouth.

I am not one bit ashamed of or sorry for my opinion.

I think most modern weddings are shallow, consumerist showcases and I don't want to be a part of them.

I think children being excluded is a big warning sign of a shallow showcase, so when my child is excluded, I automatically send my regrets.

If you want to take that personally.. or make all kinds of other assumptions based on it.. not much I can do about that.

But I am actually NOT the one who has made personal comments about anyone here.
Others, however, have certainly chosen to make personal comments about ME.


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## asherah (Nov 25, 2001)

* never mind *


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## ~pi (May 4, 2005)

Our wedding was a family event. We included all the kids (except my DH's 2 year old cousin who was too young to care) in the wedding party so that they would feel like an important part of our day.

The wedding was not formal. We played sports and went swimming after the ceremony. It was held outdoors at my mom's home. We prepared most of the food ourselves and my mom's wonderful neighbours volunteered to take care of barbecuing and serving the food. We arranged for my cousin's 16 year old daughter to bring her best friend with her. As soon as all the kids had eaten, the two 16 year olds took them all over to the next door neighbour's (parents of three of the flower girls) home to watch a movie while the adults had dinner and toasts.

It was absolutely my idea of a perfect wedding day. The aforementioned 2 year old cousin followed his six year old sister up the aisle, picking up the flower petals she was scattering and telling everyone, "Nina made a mess!" It was funny and perfect and I wouldn't have had it any other way.

All that said, that was *our* idea of what we wanted. It was also what we could afford. It's lovely now to talk about our wonderful, homemade, do-it-all-ourselves wedding that, despite a 100+ guest list, cost us less than most people's wedding clothes, but it was not so much a choice as a necessity since we were both grad students and didn't have the money for a more formal event. Had we had the money, we probably would have shelled out for catering, a photographer and a rain location. (We got lucky; it didn't rain.)

I think it is absolutely the couple's choice. They can choose to honour their commitment however they see fit. I personally prefer weddings with children, but that's what is meaningful to me. I do not expect everyone in the world to share my ideas of what is and is not important!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *asherah*
I think most modern weddings are shallow, consumerist showcases and I don't want to be a part of them.

That's so sad that you feel that way. I think that while this does happen, more often than not, people (especially brides) just get all swept up in the planning and forget what the wedding is really about: starting a marriage. However, I think it's pretty rare that the real meaning completely escapes them. Just because they aren't showing it the way you would have them show it doesn't mean they don't feel it.


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## MamaBug (Jun 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *asherah*
Actually, I DID ask.
My mother asked that I also invite my aunt, so I did.
My mother-in-law also had a request, which we honored.
Talk about making some utterly unfounded assumptions.
You don't like what I have to say, so you post assumptions about my behavior? Give me a break.

Seems your just as upset about ppl making assumptions about you as the rest of us. You have done exactly the same thing on this entire thread.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *asherah*
I made general posts on a general topic.
I haven't attacked anyone personally and I have not foisted anything on anyone. And nowhere.. NOWHERE.. did I say that "they don't take their vows as seriously." That is you putting words in my mouth.


I don't think I am putting words in your mouth when you make the following statement you are saying that ppl aren't taking their vows seriously they are playing fantasy dress up

Quote:


Originally Posted by *asherah*
I guess I also don't get the whole "dreaming of the perfect wedding day" thing.
It is about the MARRIAGE, not some play-fantasy and pretty dress.
It is about sacred vows, not place settings.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *asherah*
I think children being excluded is a big warning sign of a shallow showcase, so when my child is excluded, I automatically send my regrets.

Again your making assumptions that if ppl want an adults only event that they are shallow. You may not have named ppl on this thread but you ARE making assumptions about everyone on this thread that didn't do things your way. There have been many ppl on this thread who have said, "I think children should be included for the following reasons and this is why we did." They did not make statements about ppl's character if they decided not to have children attend.

At this point I will agree to disagree with you but you can't expect ppl to not get upset when they feel you are making assumptions about them, much like you yourself got upset when you thought I was making assumptions about you


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## ~pi (May 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *asherah*
I think most modern weddings are shallow, consumerist showcases and I don't want to be a part of them.

I've been thinking about this some more today and would like to expand on what I posted earlier. ("I think it is absolutely the couple's choice. They can choose to honour their commitment however they see fit. I personally prefer weddings with children, but that's what is meaningful to me. I do not expect everyone in the world to share my ideas of what is and is not important!")

There has been discussion here about the traditional role/function of weddings. I view the more modern emphasis on a wedding day being "the couple's day" as less about letting them do whatever they so selfishly desire, and more about allowing them to honour their commitment in a way that is meaningful *to them*.

Different people have different personal traditions, different ideas of what is sacred, different values, different conceptions of importance, etc. There were things that we did at our wedding that were extremely meaningful to us. For example, we flipped for last name at the ceremony. (I won, and DH took my name.) For us, that was an important manifestation of our commitment to an equal partnership. However, I would never suggest that everyone else should do that or worse, that if they don't, they don't have an equal partnership!

Similarly, while we welcomed children at our wedding because we felt that they are an important members of our circle of family and friends, I would never suggest that a couple planning an adults-only wedding feels less strongly about children. They may simply wish to have a more formal wedding. Nothing wrong with that.


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## Wolfmeis (Nov 16, 2004)

Prennamama, that's what we did. I wanted my wedding ceremony to be a sacred, quiet event. But I LOVED the children in my life.

We had no children at the ceremony in the church-- even the flowergirls and ring bearer did their thing and split-- because they were all set up in the church nursery having a pizza party!









The reception was also on site, so when it came time to party, the kids were all welcome there and it was great fun.


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## KirstenMary (Jun 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom*
Now, now. You're not paying attention. The wedding i am talking about is cutting off anyone under 21.

I like a nice wedding as much as anyone.

Now, now, _you're_ not paying attention. I'm talking about _you_.


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## asherah (Nov 25, 2001)

Mamabug--
My posts have been generalized.
Yours have been directed at ME personally.
There is a huge difference.

Now, you clearly TOOK my posts personally.. but none of them were leveled at YOU or anyone else here.

They were general observations.. my opinions about my universe.

Your posts... and your assumptions.. were directed at me by name.

There is a VAST difference.
My posts were general, yours were personal.
You may refuse to see the distinction.. but there is one.

And of every response to me here.. only Tigerchild responded to the actual CONTENT of my posts.

You made the discussion about ME.. even though I said nothing personal about YOU.

Tigerchild, you made some valid points. Though most of what you say is true specifically of upper class westerners.

There are plenty of other cultures for whom weddings were.. and ARE.. for that matter, a reaffirmation of tradition and community ties. And yes, I see more beauty and meaning in that then I do in "its all about the bride and groom." And so do my family and circle of friends, thankfully.

Do I care if others don't have these same values? No.. but I don't care to spend time, energy and money attending their weddings, either. Does this mean I think they are horrible human beings? No. It means I disagree with a choice they are making, and don't choose to put my energy into it.

This hardly amounts to forcing my views on them. And it hardly amounts to heaping personal insults on anyone.

And again, I have never EVER said that people who have other kinds of weddings don't take their vows as seriously. I have said I don't think their WEDDINGS EXPRESS the sacredness of the vows when children are exluded.. and when emphasis is put on the trappings instead of the people.
There is a HUGE distinction.

If other people want to read personal insults into my words.. and put their own spin on them for their own reasons..
well, that is up to them.


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## hhurd (Oct 7, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *asherah*
I am expressing an opinion on a discussion board. That is rather different than foisting my views on others. Aren't discussion boards places where you discuss things? Or am I to be silenced because I have a point of view you don't like?

You go, girl.

I happen to share your point of view on big, expensive weddings. Dh and I were married at City Hall before going off to work...


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## lizzytpa (Oct 14, 2005)

My wedding was kid friendly. I had children in my wedding party, neices/neph, and those who had children were allowed to bring them. However, i have been to two weddings where children were not allowed. I agree it's the couples choice and we had lots of fun at all the weddings, and those that our duaghter did not go to--she had special grandpa/grandma time







and i had the "night off" (no fighting to behave, no worrying about noise-just relax and enjoy). Not to mention some much needed time alone for my husband and I(PRRRRR







).


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## Jane (May 15, 2002)

I've come to the conclusion that weddings don't say that much about the marriage that follows. A beautiful wedding is no guarentee of a beautiful partnership. I have lots of opinions about marriages, but I don't have many about weddings - except please don't expect me to come if I have to hike 5 miles into the forest, and give me a CLUE about what to wear.
Sometimes those that spend the least amount of time planning the wedding (JofP on the spur of the moment) have spent the most time on the relationship. Or not.







:
At least for the youngest brides, the wedding often says more about her mother's life than her own. Some battles aren't worth fighting with Mom - or the couple doesn't know that there will be a line in the sand sometime - make it NOW.







:
Of course, sometimes you just intuit that things are gonna go well - the bride that can't stop sobbing long enough to walk down the aisle - the groom that makes jokes at the bride's expense.
But for the most part, my experiences have told me that weddings seldom reflect the values of the couple - there are many more cooks in the kitchen than that.


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## UrbanEarthMama (Aug 19, 2004)

At our wedding I was 7.5 months pregnant and we went ahead with a fairly involved ceremony and reception. We are both pro-child and pro-family/community and I was pregnant anyhow - how could I exclude kids even if I thought that was what I wanted?!

Anyway, our ceremony was short but a fairly sacred ritual that I wanted to be held in quiet attention by the guests - not frenzied or chaotic the way it can be with little ones. So our solution was to hire 4 teenagers to oversee a playroom on site. (Of course in-arms babies were welcome at the ceremony and we even had a 4 week old crying at a perfect part of the ceremony when the officiant spoke of our babe to be!) Then, after our vows, the children joined us for dinner and dancing. We even rented high chairs, included each child in our seating arrangement and gave name cards for all the children no matter their age or size. We even added a special pasta dish just for the kids in our buffet line.

Basically, we tried to balance and honor both our need for sacredness and attention with making the children feel honored and welcomed too. It worked perfectly and the parents were also thrilled to have the best of both worlds - time to be attentive and focus on the ceremony and to have their little ones with them. Eventually, by the end of the evening, since dancing went until very late, the kids even returned to the playroom for napping on blankets and quiet reading.

If anyone you know is planning a wedding and they ask for your input in advance, please share this idea with them. Everyone commented actually on the great way this came off.


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## MamaBug (Jun 13, 2003)

asherah this is the last time I plan to comment on this thread and don't worry I won't quote you. I specified YOU because you seemed to be the only one bashing ppls priorities and questioning how sacred they made their vows. If you read your posts, one of which came directly after mine and was *generalized* about things I said, you SHOULD understand why I directed my posts at you, but I am sure you will continue to feel that you said nothing wrong or offensive. For the record read some more and you will find that I was not the only one to be offended by what you had to say. But I am done arguing, as you said it's just a message board and I should not care about others opinions.


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## asherah (Nov 25, 2001)

I don't mind when you quote me.

I mind when you paraphrase me inaccurately and misrepresent what I am saying because you insist on taking it as a personal attack.


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## sistermama (May 6, 2003)

I can't stand when children aren't invited to a wedding. Weddings should be about families and leaving children out minimizes their role as a full member of the family. My stepsister had, IMO, the ultimate in tackiness. Her own child came to the wedding but no one else's was allowed. We had to come from out of town for the wedding. I wouldn't have gone, but my dad was home from overseas just for the wedding so I went to see him for a bit. I stayed at the hotel with ds while everyone else went to the wedding. Really says a lot about the importance of family in that marriage, right?

Also, I would NEVER leave my kids with some yahoo I don't know buildings or rooms away from where I am.


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## MrsMoe (May 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Zombiewaif*
I absolutely hate it when children are excluded from weddings. Have you ever seen just how much fun they can make an event like that. I love watching the little dears get up and dance. They have fun, and if you're like me you enjoy yourself because your children are enjoying themselves. Babies SHOULD be welcome due to feeding schedules etc, it's not like the bride and groom are paying for them to eat, and every wedding we've gone to I've worn my baby, which as we know keeps them calm.

yup... chidlren are not lesser people and are excluded far too foten from events. To sum it up... hey should be invited to celebrations.


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## sistermama (May 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MrsMoe*
yup... chidlren are not lesser people


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## whateverdidiwants (Jan 2, 2003)

Quote:

Also, I would NEVER leave my kids with some yahoo I don't know buildings or rooms away from where I am.
Me either. I'm surprised at the number of people on this thread who seem to be ok with leaving their child with a total stranger (who you most likely have no knowledge of their caretaking experience or philosophy) for the duration of the wedding and/or reception.

The only time I've seen this work was at a wedding where the entire reception was outside. The main festivities were under a tent, and there was a kid's table under the patio of the building literally right next door. Parents could easily glance over and see what was going on, and the kids could look for their parents whenever they wanted them.


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## Milky Way (Sep 17, 2004)

I think it's all up to the bride and groom. To be honest I have been to over a dozen weddings in the last few years and only one had children. In fact the one bride who invited children ended up with a wedding video for $850 where you can't even hear the vows because a child is having a moment. I truly believe the focus on adult weddings today has more to do with todays veiws on parenting than anything. Think, if you went to a wedding when you where little your mother would take you out at the first peep you made. Why? because it's respectful, today that respect has gone out the window. Today most mainsteam parents will just sit their and let their child scream cry, poke fingers in the cake(was mentioned by another poster) etc and not say/do a thing(as occured at my friends wedding, 2 year old was having a moment mom and dad just sat there







: ). Now some of you are saying well I have way more sense and if DD/DS did anything we would immediatly leave but remeber over half of society would not. Therefore it's easier to not invite all kids vs invite only some. We had an ADULT only wedding, why, exactly what I stated above. I have friends who let their children run a muck that was not going to work at my wedding where we had ice sculptures and glass vases all over(yes I had one of those weddings) however I also had friends whose kids are wonderful sweet and darling as can be. My wedding was amazing, sweet, all the adults got to have a GREAT time, nothing wrong with that.

There are many reasons why people don't invite children to weddings but it's nothing to take offense to. Some family's just don't bring kids to more elegant functions, some do. If your a guest you are that a guest and you don't have the right to dictate how someone else should run thier wedding/ life. You do have the right to politly decline the invitation. In most cases the bride and groom will understand, I know I did. You also have to remember many brides/grooms don't find children all the wonderful things they are like parents do. Many brides/grooms see kids as little bombs ready to go off at any moment. Understand that, you may find it selfish but many of you admit before your own kids you might have that way to. Maybe the bride and groom don't plan on having kids maybe they do but most likely they find kids way less exciting than parents do. This topic comes up so much because of the whole entittlement attitude so many people have. "well my child should be invited if I'm invited" " well I deserve this and that and special treatment" No, not always and it's not something to take offense to. I'm sure I pissed somebody off but I could care less at this point. Not everyone's world revolves around you and your children.


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## sistermama (May 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Milky Way*
There are many reasons why people don't invite children to weddings but it's nothing to take offense to. Some family's just don't bring kids to more elegant functions, some do. If your a guest you are that a guest and you don't have the right to dictate how someone else should run thier wedding/ life. You do have the right to politly decline the invitation. In most cases the bride and groom will understand, I know I did. You also have to remember many brides/grooms don't find children all the wonderful things they are like parents do. Many brides/grooms see kids as little bombs ready to go off at any moment. Understand that, you may find it selfish but many of you admit before your own kids you might have that way to. Maybe the bride and groom don't plan on having kids maybe they do but most likely they find kids way less exciting than parents do. This topic comes up so much because of the whole entittlement attitude so many people have. "well my child should be invited if I'm invited" " well I deserve this and that and special treatment" No, not always and it's not something to take offense to. I'm sure I pissed somebody off but I could care less at this point. Not everyone's world revolves around you and your children.

I don't see anyone telling people what they have to do. Just people discussing their opinions. I think it is a sad situation that so many weddings are fancy displays where people want to show off instead of a two entire families getting to celebrate the joyous union of two people. I think that there is also a difference in expectation for children being invited depending on your relationship with the person getting married. Would I expect dc to be included in an invitation to a coworker's wedding? No. Well, actually I would bring along my infant - mamatoto (mother baby unit and all). Would I expect them to be included at a family member's wedding? Hell yes, and I would be offended if they weren't.

Aren't parties thrown for the guests??? Aren't weddings just big parties? I think it is poor hospitality turn a wedding into throwing a party for yourself, where people are expected to give you gifts and then totally disregard the needs/desires of your attendees.

Children should be welcome everywhere adults are welcomed.


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## hhurd (Oct 7, 2002)

There is a distinctly cyclical nature to this thread. I think we've worked our way all around this issue at least four times by now...


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## sistermama (May 6, 2003)

So on a discussion board, I guess we just shouldn't discuss.


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## UrbanEarthMama (Aug 19, 2004)

Since I posted our solution to hire teenagers - which worked really well for us AND all the parents who came - I thought I should elaborate because I feel like the comment about "yahoos" was totally absurd in relation to our situation. The young women we hired weren't yahoos and our wedding was small enough that most of the parents either knew these yahoos or trusted my philosophies and the environment enough to feel safe.

Just to be clear, our wedding was held at my aunt and uncles dude ranch in the California foothills. My aunt and uncle are pillars of their communities - he is a chiropracter and she is a homebirth educator and LLL leader. They have 4 teenage and college age children. It was their children I was honored to witness being born at my first home birth when I was 9. They are yoga teachers and TM teachers and they have been honorary aunt and uncle to all of my friends & extended family who happened to bring their children to our wedding. The families I invited see this circle of people as inspirational and safe and nurturing.

Their dude ranch is a serene place in the Sierra Nevada mountains where entire monastaries of Buddhist monks and nuns come to live each summer. A rural retreat where children's summer camp is held every year. It was the well-known friends of my college-age cousins who actually run the children's camp who were hired to care for the children during our wedding --- in the yoga studio not 25 feet from the barn where our vows were being exchanged! Not to mention that our wedding was a weekend affair and all the parents and children had a bonfire on Friday and nature acitivities all day Saturday before our wedding to get to know the young women who provided care for the hour during our ceremony. These young people were not yahoos and I never would have created a situation like that.

Sometimes the volatility on this board is really bothersome. The jumping to conclusions and not giving anyone the benefit of the doubt when people are just sharing creative ideas to HELP one another. Don't adopt my ideas if you don't like them but please keep condescending or sarcastic comments to yourself. It is rude and shows a real lack of tolerance. Wouldn't it be more helpful to ask a question like, "How did you choose these people to care for the kids?" "What did the other parents think about leaving their little ones with strangers?" "Where did you get married - were the kids in a hotel room far away from their parents?" That just feels so much more like the spirit that I would want to create among other like-minded but healthfully diverse mothers that I reach out to for inspiration and help. The offhand comments really shut people down and draws arbitrary lines.


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## sistermama (May 6, 2003)

When I used the term "yahoo" it was not directed towards you in any way. I was simply responding to what commonly occurs when people expect you to leave your kids in a hotel or church room with people you know nothing about. I think that the set up that you described was very different from the normal situation.

I still believe, however, that when you require children to be away from adults during things like weddings (and funerals, etc) that you are telling them that they are full functioning members of the family and that their presence isn't important.


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## UrbanEarthMama (Aug 19, 2004)

Sistermama, Thanks for clarifying your position and I can respect your position about the implication on children feeling marginalized. And to share my opinion about this (not to just you Sistermama, but others too) Sometimes, for some people, there is a time for separate spaces...we give our children the right for privacy and quiet time, etc. and sometimes adults need this too. I think it is okay for children to be protected from stifling situations that require developmental skills they haven't yet mastered (like 2 year olds sitting and being quiet for 45 minutes to an hour).

I personally don't like to bring my son into places that it is impossible for him to "win" so I try to find ways for me to get my adult needs met and him to be free to be a child. I'd rather both of us enjoy our separate hour and then reunite feeling filled up and ready to celebrate with a large and happy group once the lengthy quiet time has ended.

In my opinion, providing a safe, happy place for children to be that honors their needs (freedom to roam, yell, play, explore) within the larger context of a loving community IS honoring them as full members of that community. I don't see how this marginalizes children in anyway. It tells them that we SEE them and their needs and that we will provide safe and happy places for them even when we are having adult time. It says we respect them without placing expectations on them before they are ready.

Just to go back to our wedding, in addition to babes in arms there were several children ages 9-12 who chose to be present during our ritual (a high ritual led by a pagan priestess and astrologer) and could handle the intensity of that kind of energy. At their ages, it was appropriate to initiate them into the more adult activities of sacred ritual. Having brought my son to rituals (mother blessings, death rituals, women's circles) I know when the energy will be too much for him to handle - sometimes ritual spaces can be too charged for little ones because they are still so sensitive to spirit and nonverbal energies. But, little by little, I introduce him in ways that are appropriate for his development.

Another position of mine is that it isn't always about my son - except to me. A ritual (whatever denomination and belief system to which you subscribe) is intended to celebrate a particular person for particular reason - and at a wedding, that is the couple being married. I certainly don't want my son taking away the focus when someone needs healing or a new mother needs quiet massage or a spirit is being ushered to the beyond or two people are declaring their love in a quiet, sacred moment. My son gets plenty of love and attention daily and he needs to learn boundaries and that sometimes mama gives her attention elsewhere because it is needed. If doing this with him by my side makes it difficult for him and me and the person (or people) being honored by a ceremony, everyone has lost something.

And, in most situations, there is the after-feast and the livelier moments with talking, dancing, music, when my son can be included and offer his congratulations to the bride & groom, etc...He can then, slowly, be introduced to the social expectations of such circumstances.

Okay, just my thoughts again. What an interesting thread. It sure seemed to touch a nerve with lots of people!


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## sistermama (May 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UrbanEarthMama*
In my opinion, providing a safe, happy place for children to be that honors their needs (freedom to roam, yell, play, explore) within the larger context of a loving community IS honoring them as full members of that community. I don't see how this marginalizes children in anyway. It tells them that we SEE them and their needs and that we will provide safe and happy places for them even when we are having adult time. It says we respect them without placing expectations on them before they are ready.


Good point, I will think on it.

I do think that they way you handled it was VASTLY different from my experience at other child free weddings. I think it is lovely that the children who chose to attend the ritual were allowed and that all the children came and joined the rest of the group afterwards. IME, people who don't want children at the ceremony don't welcome them at any other time during the festivities as well. That is the part that really saddens me.


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## Metasequoia (Jun 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Attila the Honey*
I say to each his own, but honestly if my baby isn't welcome I am not going. It bugs me that it's "OK" to even make that stipulation, really. There are plenty of obnoxious adults I'd like to exclude from events, but I'd never write "Please, no middle aged men that tend to drink too much" just because my Uncle Harry is like that.

What if you're supposed to be the maid of honor & when the bride asked you, you were only a few months along & not telling anyone you were pg, so you agreed & now, when you tell her that you'll need to bring your 6 month old, strictly nursing baby to the wedding she says "no," then what????? We've been through the "just give him a bottle" conversation, etc.... I was totally imagining wearing him in a sleek black sateen Hotsling







. I mean, I understand that during the ceremony & during pictures I'd have to hand him off, but who cares about the rest of it??

I abandoned Dd1 during a wedding when she was 5 months old & left her with a baby sitter hired by the bride & she was hysterical the whole time







I swore that I would never do that again, I was so upset with myself (especially when another couple brought their infant to the ceremony


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## bri276 (Mar 24, 2005)

I had kids at my wedding. I don't mind if someone else doesn't want them at theirs, I'm just not going to come, that's all. As long as they're not offended by me not attending then I'm not offended by them excluding children. I understand there are valid reasons for it- saving money, wanting an ultra-sophisticated atmosphere, just plain not liking kids running around. I'm ok with that. But I'm not ok w/ leaving DD. that's all there is to it.


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## Metasequoia (Jun 7, 2005)

Then do you think it's okay to say to the bride (whom I've known for 22 yrs) that I'm not going to be her maid-of-honor unless my children can come? It's such a sticky situation....she wants Dd1 (6yrs old) to be the flower girl, but won't allow Dd2 (who will be 3.75 yrs old then.) It's very hurtful to imagine Dd2 being left alone







. How do I say, "I'll only be in your wedding if I can bring all 3 of my children"?? That's how I feel. It just seems so imposing, but I feel like most of you in that children should not be excluded. I guess it all boils down to me valuing my family's feelings more than I value hers?


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## bri276 (Mar 24, 2005)

I would decline the offer to be a MOH. Anyone I would care enough for to be an MOH (which is a lot of work!) would care about my children enough not to hurt their feelings by making one have a special part in the day and the other not even invited. That is rude.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

We welcomed children to our wedding and a number attended, from ages 2-12. They were a delight and not a problem in any way. No one screamed through the ceremony or tipped over the cake. We had a fairly formal wedding at a fairly fancy place.

However, ironically enough, I have since decided that it is probably MORE considerate to hire sitters on-site or recommend/pay for off-site sitters for out of town guests with young children (say, under 5). I can't really support BARRING young children, but making a sitter an option is actually the right thing, I think.

Why do I say this? I just brought my two-year-old to a family wedding. It was very fancy, very formal, at a child-unfriendly place (lots of open fires and candles and grabbable floral displays hither and yon) and involved a lot of people drinking and dancing wildly and a lot of long speeches and toasts. To be perfectly honest, it was VERY stressful to care for my toddler in this environment. They actually did hire a (trusted, family friend) sitter on-site, and although I did not initially intend to use her, we eventually brought DD up to the room where she was and checked in on her a lot. She did fine, till it was past her bedtime (which wasn't long, as it was an evening wedding).

To be really honest, if I had it do over, I think I would have put her with the sitter during the ceremony, brought her to the first bit of the reception so family could enjoy seeing her, then taken her back where we were staying, put her to bed, and paid a sitter to stay with her while DH and I enjoyed the rest of the reception.

I never used to be sympathetic to the "fancy weddings are no place for young kids" argument, but actually, after this experience, I have to say that it may be true that some weddings are not the place for some kids (depending on age, temperament, and the time of the wedding). I have rarely been as exhausted as I was after that wedding weekend! (We also took DD to a fancy rehearsal dinner...)

That said, I totally understand why people feel hurt and upset when their young children are excluded. Some children are also much easier to leave with others--my DD is old enough now to communicate if she needs me, and she isn't one for stranger anxiety. I think the best call is to give parents both options, inform them what the event will be like, and let them decide.


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## MamaBug (Jun 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bri276*
I would decline the offer to be a MOH. Anyone I would care enough for to be an MOH (which is a lot of work!) would care about my children enough not to hurt their feelings by making one have a special part in the day and the other not even invited. That is rude.









:

ITA agree with this. If this person is close enough for you to be her MOH then maybe you should have a talk with her. If she does not have children yet she may not even realize that this can cause problems


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## Metasequoia (Jun 7, 2005)

Thanks for all of the responses mama's







, you guys are so amazing & wise!

I emailed the bride-to-be (even borrowed some of your suggestions







) I posted the said email over in the "Help Non AP Wedding Distress" thread, hope she responds like an adult....I think I was very nice about it.

Thanks Mama's!!!!


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