# Regret & Guilt (long)



## Debstmomy (Jun 1, 2004)

These words are haunting me. I am regretting my choice in midwifery care & homebirth. For I know if I stayed with standardized medical care, I would not have been pregnant so long. I wonder if my going so far past due had something to do with my daughters death. Did my wanting for such a natural birth this time, have something to do with what happened? I have so much guilt. Will I ever get an answer, and is it something that I truly want to hear? I know it is what my mainstream family is thinking. I wonder if Dh partialy blames me, even when he insists he doesn't. So many unanswered questions.
I tried so hard to trust the process of birth & I feel it failed me even more so. I would have 10 medicalized inductions/c-sections to have a live baby & than to go through this hell I am now in. How I wish I had done so!!!!! The night before she died, I did tell Dh lets go get a c-sec, and he said no that is not what you want. He was supporting me. If I could only turn back time & just go. I should have listened to myself. Why? Why? Why?

Now I have empty arms. A huge sore in my heart, that permiates all through my body. I physically hurt. My DD was taken from my womb & then laid to rest in the ground. I am so sad. I could sleep forever. My kids see me weep. How does that make them feel? My daughter was taking care of my friends baby today while she delivered us food. Oh that should of been her sister she was taking care of. My kids have lost out as well. I am sad for them, they are sad for me. This is all wrong & not the way it was supposed to be. I have such a void in my life. I feel I have lost all direction & do not know which way to go. Before my pregnancy with Alexa, I was supposed to start nursing school. When I found out I was pregnant, I quit. I wanted to be the best Mom I could be. I wanted to savor every pregnant feeling. I was excited to be a full time stay at home mom to an infant. (With my older two I had to work to put Dh through school) Now that is taken from me. What do I do now??? Go back to school, look for work, stay at home. We do want to try for another baby when I physically can, probably arround our anniversary. But who really knows how long it will take to concieve. So now what do I do?

I want to also thank you Mams that have been there. Coralsmom, I read your posts & think that is me. So sad that we have to be here. I am glad it is here to. I am journaling in 3 different places & I think it helps. Thank you MDC for letting us share here. It helps.


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## nadine (Oct 22, 2004)

i'm just so sorry. i don't know what to say. i'm sorry for your loss. i do not feel that you are to blame at all, but we tend to still blame ourselves. i'm sorry.


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## Jasmyn's Mum (May 24, 2004)

Oh mama. I'm so sorry. I don't have any advice other than it's okay to feel the guilt, just don't stay there. Don't beat yourself up either. You did your very best because that's what mamas do. Big hugs to you and your family.


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## crazymom (Jun 4, 2005)

Hi Cristina -- I have posted to you before, but was compelled to do so again....I don't know that you are ready for this yet, but a book that helped me after I miscarried at 7.5 weeks was a book titled "Our Children Forever" by Joel Martin and Patricia Romanowski.....it helped me grieve and understand that our children are always there watching over us....even if we can't be with them, they are with us....please try and read this sometime when you can...I wish there was something that could be said or done to help make your pain go away, but I know there is not.....my love goes out to you every day...I say a prayer for you and your family!!


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## PortraitPixie (Apr 21, 2005)

You are such a good mamma. You are in my heart and prayers. I hope you can find some rest and peace in this unspeakably, unfathomabally difficult time.










Sarah


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## laralou (Nov 27, 2001)

You made the choices that we all know have the greatest chance in a healthy delivery. You can't second guess the choices that you made now. You will never know what would be different had you made different choices, but you have to keep telling yourself that you made the best choices you knew to make with your dd's best interest in mind at all times. Your dd was blessed to have you as a mother during her life in your womb for you did everything you knew to do.

I wish I could make you feel better about it, but I know that you have to come to that place on your own.


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## liseux (Jul 3, 2004)

You are a wonderful mama. Journaling really can help. I read today that one way to hold onto our lost children is through language.

I can relate to blaming yourself. I did that for a long time. You really did nothing wrong,its easy now to see what you might have done differently, but remember, you only wanted the best for her. You had only the very best intentions.


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## Starr (Mar 16, 2005)

You did what you thought was best, thats what a mother does. There could be a million what ifs, but you'll never know how things might have turned out. She will always be in your familys heart and your children will never forget the time they got to spend holding, bathing, and dressing her. You are a great mom. I think its a great that your journaling, you might want to let your kids know its ok to do the same. Also them writing her a letter and then sending it off in a balloon. I know its hard but you will be able to help your family through this difficult time.


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## Sleepymama (Oct 9, 2003)

Cristina I just found out about your loss. I am so very sorry. I remember talking to you at the LLL conference about how many midwives were there, & how they'd all be saying "pick me, pick me!"

(You probably don't know my MDC name, I am stephanie of schnooglywear)

Anyway, I just wanted you to know that it is so normal for you to feel guilty. I still feel guilty about my son's heart, even though I know absolutely nothing I did caused it. There is still that nagging feeling that won't go away. I lost a baby last fall too, not full term, but it always hurts. I can't imagine how awful it is to lose one as you did.

I remember when Karen (she is your MW too right?) asked me why I wanted a homebirth and I said that I wanted a birth with the greatest amount of choice and the greatest security. It sounds like you picked that for your birth too.

I just wanted to know if there is anything you need. I live in your town, so wanted to know if there is anything I can do to help







I remember feeling so alone after my son's birth, & after my loss. I didn't have any help except DH and don't ever want anyone to go through that. You can pm me or email steph @ schnoogly.com


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## mely (Feb 16, 2005)

I'm so sorry. I have never been through what you are going through, but I think your feelings are very normal. You did what you thought was best for your baby and I pray you and your family can come together and get through this.


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## 1Plus2 (Mar 13, 2003)

Just reading your words makes my heart ache. I can not even fathom what the pain that you are going through is like. I wish so badly that you didn't have to know what it was like either. I think that questioning your choices is a totally normal human response to something as awful as losing a child. We all would be doing it. I am a strong believer in God and I have been taught in church that he knows when we are born and when we will die. I strongly believe that no matter what choice you had made - home or hospital birth - that June 10, 2005 (I hope I have that date right) was the day that your Alexa was going to be taken to heaven. I have a brother who died when he was 16. My family often goes through the "What if we hadn't let him go out that night". I honestly believe that no matter what he had done that night, it would have been his night to go. Does that make sense? I guess what I'm trying to say (and am having a hard time putting in to words) is that you had no control over this and you should shoulder none of the blame.

Have you considered getting grief counselling? I'm sure that either your hospital or even the funeral home could direct you toward a good counselor. You really do need someone to help you talk many of these feelings and thoughts out. No amount of counselling is going to take away your pain and hurt but it will help you deal with the feelings of guilt, etc. that you are having.

I pray that God holds you close while you are making your way day-by-day through this.


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## rn (Jul 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Debstmomy*
These words are haunting me. I am regretting my choice in midwifery care & homebirth. For I know if I stayed with standardized medical care, I would not have been pregnant so long. I wonder if my going so far past due had something to do with my daughters death. Did my wanting for such a natural birth this time, have something to do with what happened? I have so much guilt. Will I ever get an answer, and is it something that I truly want to hear? I know it is what my mainstream family is thinking. I wonder if Dh partialy blames me, even when he insists he doesn't. So many unanswered questions.
I tried so hard to trust the process of birth & I feel it failed me even more so. I would have 10 medicalized inductions/c-sections to have a live baby & than to go through this hell I am now in. How I wish I had done so!!!!! The night before she died, I did tell Dh lets go get a c-sec, and he said no that is not what you want. He was supporting me. If I could only turn back time & just go. I should have listened to myself. Why? Why? Why?


Cristina,

I could have written what you wrote myself. My son was born by c- section on Wednesday May 11th at 43 weeks. He lived for 5 days in the NICU before we took him off the ventilator and died in my arms.
I started having very bad and nervous feelings the Friday before and I did not say anything to anyone, I thought I was just nervous. I trusted that my body and my baby would know when he was ready.
As it is when he came out, besides meconium, he (as far as I can tell) had no signs of being Post dated, his skin was beautiful (not peeling or wrinkly at all) he was very plump (9lbs 9oz) and his fingernails were not that long.
But he had aspirated a lot of meconium and suffered from massive brain damage.

I am crying as I write this to you. I know your pain and your guilt. I too would have multiple cesareans and would have done it at 37 weeks if I had known. I would do ANYTHING to turn back time and have my son back. My entire being is broken and will never be fixed. I will never be the same person I was before.

I have been learning not to consume myself with the guilt. I remind myself that I only was trying to do what I thought was best for my baby, I wanted him to have a gentle birth and entrance into this world. I know that you were only doing the same. Please try and not feel guilty for that.

I have to believe that this happened for a reason, that my Freddie and your Alexa were not meant to be with us. Freddie was supposed to have been my last baby, my last pregnancy, we only wanted 2 children. I now think I was supposed to have another, this is why my son had to go. I do want another baby so badly, not to replace my son but to complete our family. When we are ready we will try again.

But for now the pain... it hurts more that I ever imagined it could. I am amazed I am still alive and somewhat functioning. I had no idea that it was possible to be in this much pain and still breath.

But for some reason we are still here. For some reason we are supposed to endure this. Its the worst thing in the world, but this is what it is.

again, I am so sorry for you. You have been on my mind often.
love, robin


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## patty_g (May 30, 2005)

Guilt is a normal part of the grieving process. That said, it doesn't help much to know that right now. If you had had a c-section or induction or anything else, and your DD had not stayed with you, you would have felt guilty about those choices. That's what we do as moms or even as human beings. I felt guilty for a really long time for letting my son undergo chemotherapy for his leukemia because when he passed, we knew that the leukemia he had at that time was not the same as the original and that some of the side effects of the chemotherapy was, in fact, leukemia! But I made the choices that I thought gave him the best chance at health and life. That's what you did too. Everyone is different, but I found for me the best way to get "through" the grief was to just FEEL it. Every day for as long as I could stand it (sometimes 5 minutes, sometimes more), I would go into my room or be next to someone I needed to be next to and just open the emotional floodgates. I don't mean crying or making any verbal sounds, etc, but just removing the natural "blockers" we all have that dull the pain and just let it come full force. There were days I couldn't do it for more than a minute or two and sometimes I could do it for 10 minutes but I always felt lighter afterwards. Not good at first, or even *better* but somehow "lighter", less burdened. I don't know, that's just what worked for me.

I wish I was a like a sponge and could absorb some of your pain.


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## Stayinhom (Dec 29, 2004)




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## mamabutterfly (Jun 23, 2002)

((((( cristina ))))) ((((( robin ))))))


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## Debstmomy (Jun 1, 2004)

Thank You Mamas, for such kinds words & holding my heart gently in your hands. I does help to know that feeling guilty is normal, but it still does not take it away completly.








s to you Robin. You know my pain, as I know yours. Our stories are so similar. Just like Freddie, Alexa was covered in massive meconium, but she expired before I had my surgery. I hope that we can continue to share. PM me if you would like. For some reason, I have comfort when other Mamas share thier losses with me, I guess I do not feel so alone when they do.

I am looking for grief counseling, for Dh & myself. I am also looking for grief counseling for my children. I am blessed in IRL to have a friend that is a Child Life Specialist that works with grief. She is looking into local resources for me.

I am also glad to have MDC. It is a valuable outlet for me. I am thankful it is here.


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## Greensleeves (Aug 4, 2004)

Mama, I and many others have cried for you. Please let our tears give you at least a little comfort. We can come nowhere near touching your grief, but we can put virtual arms around you.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Oh dear. I recognize the pain of what I call the "What If" game.

What if I'd skipped the seafood buffet at the beach? mercury poisoning?
What if the baby died cause I'm dying? lupus? cancer?
What if I hadn't painted? toxic fumes?
What if I'd known more?
What if I'd gone to a "real" doctor?

Blah and blah. You get the drift. Please let yourself off the hook. You are not all-powerful. You cannot see the future. You and your care did not cause the baby to die.

Many, many hugs to you. I have been there and survived.


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## awise (Jun 20, 2005)

Cristina,
We feel guilt because we don't want to feel powerless. We are our children's guardians, looking to their best interests. We are supposed to be able to protect them. That's our job as parents.
Several weeks ago, we received the final autopsy report for our daughter. During our conversation with the medical examiner, he stressed there was absolutely nothing we could have done for her. Taking her to the hospital an hour earlier, a day earlier, a week earlier, would not have changed the outcome. That was a bitter pill to swallow. Even if it meant beating myself into the ground with guilt, I wanted desperately for there to have been some way my daughter could have lived.

Be gentle with yourself. You did what you thought best for Alexa.

-Angela
Olivia's mommy 10/11/04 - 01/01/05


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## egoldber (Nov 18, 2002)

Cristina, I could also have written your post. I lost my baby Leah to uterine rupture in a VBAC attempt. The first words out of my mouth when the neonatalogist came to us and told us that Leah was not going to make it were "This is all my fault." And the second words, to my DH, were "Please don't hate me." I was so consumed with having a VBAC and I was consumed with guilt at first.

I spent several of the first weeks just physically sickened by the thought that if I had just scheduled an elective repeat C-section I would have my baby girl in my arms today. As the weeks have gone by, it has gotten better. I still hurt and ache for her every day. The reminders and the general sense that the world is not right without Leah in it will never go away I think. But I just try to tell myself I made the best decisions I could with the information available to me at the time. The odds were with me, but sometimes terrible things do happen. I just never thought it would happen to me and to MY baby. I am so sorry it happened to you and yours. Take care.


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## crayon (Aug 24, 2002)

Sweet Cristina, it is so easy to be upset at ourselves for outcomes we dont want. It is a way to blame someone, something... Life and death sometimes are just in the hands of the unkown and there is no one to blame, so we take it out on ourselves, and it hurts even worse. When I was pregnant my mother freaked out thinking no one had even tried to hear the baby, "what if there is no heartbeat?" she says, she just didnt understand midwifery care, as it seems your family does not either. I too we 2 weeks over and the fear and second guessing are very scary and very real.

Your choice was not the cause. We could go on for days saying how unsafe hospital birth is, and then others could go on for days saying how unsafe homebirth is. You made the very best choice, trust in that, belive in that. You were educated and wer doing the best thing. Forgive yourself, it was not your cause, it was not you- it just
simply was.

I am sending you much love and much support. My heart aches for you sweety.


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## Milkmom (Nov 29, 2001)

Hey Cristina...There are some really wise women here. I know you will move on from your guilt when you are ready. In the meantime, listen to these wise posts Cristina. There is a lot of love here.








Hugs from Jes


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## sarah9774 (Feb 19, 2005)

Cristina-
I am so sorry that you had to endure such a painful loss.. my heart breaks everytime I hear of a new loss.. I am still healing from my own, and I understand about the guilt.. though I don't wish to share much right now about my son Luke, I invite you to read previous posts starting in february of this year.. All I can offer right now is an ear, and warm thoughts.. I know that it feels like you life has ended, but be encouraged.. sit with you emotions a bit and move forward.. it will take lots of time, crying, reflecting.. I played the blame game too.. I felt weird too.. If I had only gone to the ER the night before.. I had heard my son's HB in the office that day, went home didn't feel too good, called a nurse who said I was fine, went to bed.. and the next day woke up anxious, thought I was being silly.. waited for my appointment later that day and he was gone.. I was 40 weeks and one day.. I found out that I have a genetic clotting d/o that may have contributed to my loss and pre-e.. not many symptoms, just came on all of a sudden.. so please.. be easy on yourself!!
hugs

SArah G.


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## Raven (Dec 15, 2001)

Cristina









Please dont blame yourself... blame is only necessary when the intentions reflect the action and yours certainly did NOT. You loved Alexa Rose. You still love her. And it was within that love that you made the decisions you did. There is no way you could've predicted that this would happen. Sometimes this world deals us some really painful blows and everything goes cold. Im so sorry that you have to experience such a harsh blow... you and your dear family. No-one should have to go through that...







There are no magic words or answers when it comes to dealing with pain, I wish there was.

The only "advice" that came to my mind while reading your post was to be gentle with yourself


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## Debstmomy (Jun 1, 2004)

Thank you ladies for your words of wisdom. The guilt was better today, as I know that if I had known what was going to happen, I would have changed it all in a heartbeat. All of us would have. I just know that "others" feel I should have done something different, "others" second guessing my decision, as if I am not doing that mysel???? I know I should not listen to "others" but it is hard to ignore when I am in such a vulnerable state.
Dh was able to get from now until end of July off from work. Our family doctor wrote him off on disablity stress, with out a problem. When I told him our baby died, I think it took his breath away. I am so glad Dh will be off for awhile, I do not want to be alone. While I would have my kids with me, that is not the same & it is not their job to comfort their Mom, at least not continually as I feel I need it right now.
How is everyone coping at night? That is the worse for me. I am taking benadryl to sleep at night. I stay up late so I get so tired I know I will sleep. I fear sleep & darkness. Always have, now it is worse. I feel like a big child. Perhaps it is just me, but anyone else? Dh is great & stays close. I am glad I can tell him these things without judgement. What a great Dh I have. He has been awesome & holding me & wiping my tears & even grieving with me.

Sarah I did go back & read Lukes posts & your process of your grieving. It really helps to know I am not alone. Raven, I am working on being gentle with myself, thank you for reminding me of that, I think I will need to be reminded often.
Everyone else, thank you for the unconditional support I have found here, I NEED IT!! I will post often on my grief journey. I hope you do not mind.


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## sarah9774 (Feb 19, 2005)

Cristina-

I took Ambien (sp?) for sleep worked really well, didn't feel grogy in the morning. My husband is a fulltime college student right now and it was very helpful having him with me!! I felt like a big child myself.. not being able to control my emotions, being scared at night, having nightmares and feeling lost a lot of the time.. I would just curl up in his arms and it always eased the pain a little.. he would come running down the stairs every time he thought he heard me cry.. I hope that you are able to take as much time as you need off if you work outside of the home.. I was able to take 3 months and I needed every bit of it!! Be kind to yourself and allow the tears to wash over you.. It will get easier as the days pass.. I know that is hard to believe, but they will.. the good days will outweigh the not so good days.. just allow yourself to grieve and don't hold back for anyone.. That was a problem for me.. I am a therapist and I had a hard time letting others take care of me.. I am getting better about it.. still have break downs every now and then.. but I need them.. I need them to remember Luke and to feel the loss so that I can continue to heal.. and not to get stuck.. I don't want to be a bitter old lady.. I want to continue to celebrate life!! for my family, for Me, for Luke!! I hope that you will share your journey here.. it really helps.. not only you but others who experience this pain too.. hugs to you and I will be reading.. so write away!!

Sarah


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## Debstmomy (Jun 1, 2004)

I don't know how to explain it. I like having direction in my life. I like routine & order. I no longer have that. I had a path & it has changed it route & I don't know what to do. This summer & for the next year, my job was to be a Mom to a newborn & I was so ready to accept that job. It is now gone. What do I do now??? I am so confused. My other kids are older & so independent. I want a baby to nuture & love & now that is gone. I feel so robbed. Now I have to make other decisions & I do not know what to do. Will the answers come? How long will this foggy confusion last?
I am yearning for the physical things you do with a baby. This was going to be my first experience with cloth diapers. I long to baby wear again. I was so looking forward to it, I have 4 carriers for Alexa. They just sit on her dresser. Last night would have been a perfect night for a walk in the neighborhood, to show her off. But she is gone I can not do that. I would walk anyway, but I am not ready for all questions I know the neighbors will ask. I long for a baby in my bed, to rest on my chest. The desire for the phsyical things is so strong.
I weep. My kids see me cry. I know it is healthy to cry, but I wonder if it freaks them out a little bit. My DD refuses to let us start putting baby things away. She freaks out. She is afraid she will forget her sister. I have told her many times that she still has a sister & she will not forget, but that is her fear. I tried asking her to pick out her favorite outfit of the baby's to keep for her own, but she does not want to. She wants to keep everything. I have no answers.
My midwife is coming over today. I want to ask the questions, but do not really want to hear the answers yet. I don't know we shall see how it goes.


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## sarah9774 (Feb 19, 2005)

Cristina- Just take your time.. things will become clear as time goes on.. Luke's room is just as it was in February.. with the exception of moving a few bags in from other rooms. I can't imagine how it is with your other children.. Luke was my first born son.. just hang in there.. we are all here for you!!


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## sagelove (May 29, 2004)

I am so sorry...


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Debstmommy,

First I am so sorry for your loss.

Second, I did just want to say, that I have kids the same age as your older two. Although, I know it is hard through the grief to remember this, those two are not really "independant." They still need you so much.

The path you planned has gone another way. You may not be able to take a walk with your beloved Alexa, but you can with your other dd and your ds. And that walk will involve talking to them and discussing their feeling.

Our littlest ones need our physical care,but our older ones need our intellectual and spiritual care.

This is Alexa's gift to them. That in this year of their lives, you can perhaps be there for them in ways that would not have been possible.

Of course you need time to grieve. Getting help as you plan for you and DH is so smart. Maybe for your older ones too?

Try to spend some of this next year doing things that allow you to find purpose in the path of being a mama to your older two. The four of you, going to a light silly movie, out to dinner at a restaurant, take your dd to a spa and have a special late night out.

If your older two are in school, see what you can do to be involved there.

Your path has indeed become sad, but it is not empty.

All my thoughts and prayers are with you,

Maya


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## Debstmomy (Jun 1, 2004)

Today was very hard on me. I am so sad. Words are not enough to express the grief I have. I yearn for my daughter. I am missing her so darn much, it hurts. I flashback to when I was pregnant, dreaming of my new babe, then BAM all I feel is pain. I never in my life knew that there could be so much pain. At times I do not know how I breathe. My husband is wonderful. When he realizes I am breaking down, he comes & holds me. We have started talking about Alexa every night. I like that. We both have guilt to release. He is missing the what could have been; such as losing her first tooth, her first step, playing with her brother & sister. I am missing the baby things; baby wearing, snuggling, nursing. Maya, that is what I meant by my kids being indepenant, I am missing the baby things. I know my other kids still need me, but right now it is not enough. I have empty arms.
I also wonder how I am going to be able to go back to working with Moms & Babies. When I see a pregnant Mom, I pray her baby makes it safely into this world. When I see babies, I hope pray that its parent realizes how lucky they are to have that babe & that they hold & love on it. How can I go back working with Moms & babes when I have this longing that is so intense? Then I think how can I not go back, it is what I love. I am so confused. I really hate all this. How I wish I could turn the clock back to when there was not so much pain.


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## awise (Jun 20, 2005)

Cristina,
I wish you a gentle day mama.

Post as long and as frequently as you need. We'll be here to listen and cry with you.

Take your time with putting Alexa's things away. It sounds like your daughter is at a particularily vulnerable stage right now and may need to see those baby things. However, if you're at the point where you don't want those reminders, you might try having your children pick a few special things and a special place to display them. For the time being, leave the rest of Alexa's things where they were. Gradually, your children should associate that special display with Alexa, and be less attached to her other things.

My husband and I have a special place for our daughter. We have her little, flowery, pink, teapot/urn; plaster casts of her hands and feet, pictures, and a few other special things. When I want to feel her near me, I go there.
Maybe something similar would help your children.

Take care of yourself,
-Angela
Olivia's mama 10/11/04 - 01/01/05


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## rn (Jul 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *awise*
My husband and I have a special place for our daughter. We have her little, flowery, pink, teapot/urn; plaster casts of her hands and feet, pictures, and a few other special things. When I want to feel her near me, I go there.
Maybe something similar would help your children.

Take care of yourself,
-Angela
Olivia's mama 10/11/04 - 01/01/05

That sounds beautiful. My dresser top now is Freddies, we have a couple of pictures out, with a basket of my shells next to them, I no longer like to have anything else on top of the dresser, not even a glass of water for a few minutes. In the top drawer are his things, not that he had much, but there are a couple of hats that he wore, a blanket, his footprints and some other things.
I would like to eventually make some sort of a shrine for him in my house. A spot that everyone who comes here can visit if they like.

Maybe you can do that with your kids Cristina? especially for your daughter... it might help her to make something for Alexa, to honor her, so she will have a special place to go and remember her sister.

~Robin


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## Debstmomy (Jun 1, 2004)

Today I felt numb. I did not break down at all, until after my kids were in bed. Why do I do that? Amber broke down at bed time too. She really is missing her sister. She went through the momento box we have for Alexa. It has her hand & foot prints in it, my birth necklace, my pregnant goddess, our hospital bands, the hat Alexa wore at the hospital,her lock of hair. She touched everything & mourned her sister. It broke my heart & I just held her while she cried. After she was in bed, I lost it. I pulled out the pictures I have of Alexa. It is not enough, I want to FEEL her next to me. The yearning is so strong, and nothing fills it. Dh holds me & that is nice, but it is not my baby daughter. I miss her so much!
The guilt is still haunting me. I know I did the best that I could with the info I had at the time, but I still question myself. Was I being selfish? Should I have just scheduled a C-Sec, & forgoed the natural/home birth? If I had would Alexa still be here? Dh reminds me, that I was doing what I thought was best. Then I think of the fear I had during my prengnacy, that something bad would happen & why did I not listen to it!! Was I being selfish? Did my selfishness bring on my babies death? Then I say, No I did not. The birth process failed me, not I failed it. When will this mind conversation end!!!!

I want to live again, but just do not know how. Right now I feel as if I am exisiting, not living. How do I do that again, when my heart feels so empty? I HATE this. I hate that my family & I are in so much pain & grief. I just want it over!!!! I looked at my belly shots & I looked so happy. I am not happy anymore, will I ever be? How did you mamas that have experienced a such a loss move on?? I feel very lost.

Thank you for the suggestions of making a special place for Alexa. We sort of have that now. We have her picture up, next to the above mentioned momento box. The pictures we took at the hospital are there too. We also have a shadow box with her picture in it, along with her foot cast & a tiny blanket I knited for it. They will stay with us forever.


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## coleslaw (Nov 11, 2002)

Christina,

It is so hard isn't it? Just yesterday I had my 6 week (but at 7 weeks) check-up. Again, I went through all the questions of "was there a way to know?". My midwife has been great in answering my questions, giving me time to ask anything and is not afraid of hwo it comes out and tells me so. Have you talked to your care provider? Did you have tests done? Has anyone given you a clue of why this happened? These things may be helpful to ease the burden of guilt. I know it did for me. Mind you, it eased it, but it didn't make it go away forever. It's still there. It's just not at the front of my mind, at least not today nor most days, but there still are days I think about it.

Are you able to exercise yet? I have also found that walks and working out have been very helpful to me. In fact, for me, it's always been essential or I find myself frozen and unable to get off the couch some days.

I'll be thinking of you today.







s my friend


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## Len (Nov 19, 2001)

I just wanted to subscribe to this thread, as I've been reading and finding lots of similarities to what I'm feeling and absorbing what I can to help me go through my grief.

For now I have decided not to go to a counselor but I don't have a lot of people to talk to, so just writing to let things out of my mind has helped.

Summer is here, DS is out of school, and this summer I was supposed to have a baby, take him with us wherever we go, show him around to everybody, and instead I go around life confused, disturbed and trying to make the best I can for my 5yo DS....

DH doesn't talk to me about Victor because he can't say a word without breaking down... and he can't stand to see me cry either, so we are not talking much about him....

My midwife has been a great source of support, also, but I just found out that she is going to take a long break from midwifery, after what happened to us, so I feel very confused about this too... like I'm guilty of her doing this.... although I know is unreasonable, but sometimes things like "I drank too much water during labor" or "I shouldn't have been in the water" come and go through my mind, as unreasonable as they may sound....

Living the life of contradictions we are.....

Anyway I don't think I'm making too much sense here but I just wanted to be here tonight....

Elena


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## Len (Nov 19, 2001)

Oh, yes, and I wanted to add that I'm taking Melatonin to help me sleep, and it's worked great. It's also natural and non-adictive. Victor was born at home, in the middle of the night, so every night reminds me so much of my labor, his birth and what happened next... it is very painful to be awake at night.


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## awise (Jun 20, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Debstmomy*
I want to live again, but just do not know how. Right now I feel as if I am exisiting, not living. How do I do that again, when my heart feels so empty? I HATE this. I hate that my family & I are in so much pain & grief. I just want it over!!!! I looked at my belly shots & I looked so happy. I am not happy anymore, will I ever be? How did you mamas that have experienced a such a loss move on?? I feel very lost.

Cristina,
You are still so new in your grief. I read your posts and I get tears in my eyes because I see myself a little more than 5 months ago.
I don't think anyone who's ever lost a child can ever move on. Move through, yes. Learn to live with the grief, yes. Be happy again, at times. Eventually those things will happen for you, and for me. Until then, take life moment by moment, breath by breath.
The other mama's on this board will help hold you up as you travel your path. We've walked similar roads, but not the same. Your loss, your grief, is uniquely your own. As unique as your beautiful babe, Alexa. We can provide encouragement, advice, love, and a shoulder to cry on.

I used to think I would give anything for the pain to go away. Then, I realized I was in pain because I loved my daughter and she was gone. If the pain was taken from me, my memories would also be taken from me. As the weeks and months have passed, I can now occassionally remember Olivia and actually smile. Yes, it's still painful. But, the pain isn't as sharp. Does that mean I'm forgetting her? No. I'm just finding the place in my heart where I can carry her with love. The place in my heart that will protect me and deflect the pain. The place in my heart where her memories will live with joy.

Be gentle with yourself mama. We're here for you.

-Angela
Olivia's mama 10/11/04 - 01/01/05


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)




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## Raven (Dec 15, 2001)

((((Cristina)))) I am thinking of you often.


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## Debstmomy (Jun 1, 2004)

Thank you ladies so much. The support here is wonderful. Out of all the places I visit on the net, this one is my favorite.

The last 24 hours have been good. Yesterday, I decided that I was going to have a day where the overwhelming sadness was not going to make me feel horrible, like it had been. It was a conscience decision. Yesterday, I felt like "living" again. I told myself that this was ok, & No, I was not forgetting my little Alexa. In fact, I thought about her alot yesterday, I think about her constantly, but I was not going to be physicaly wipped. I gave myself one day, & told myself if it came back the next that was ok, but I could have one day. Anyway, it was a good day. I felt everything & it was nice. My girlfriend took me to see "Bewitched", it was funny & I laughed.

I think my saddness is being replaced with frustration. I like being a busy person. I hate sitting & waiting for things. I like doing things. I think that is why grief is so hard on me, physically. Anyway, I have been doing research into stillbirth. I have looked all over the net. My midwife brought me articles. I am learning so much & this is where my frustration begins. Did you ladies know that more babies die of Sudden Antenatal Death Syndrome, SADS, than die of SIDS??? Something like 2,000 die of SIDS, but like 15,000 die of SADS. did you all know this?? That there is no active research into why our babies have died. That 70% of SADS death, have no reason, Alexa being one. It makes me so angry!! How many of us know about, "Back to Sleep", but how many of you knew of warning signs of their babies death? I had no idea, & I am a birth doula, a LLL leader, & I had never heard that localized uterine pain & vigourous movements can indicate a problem. (There are others, but those are the ones I experienced.) How come I get a death certificate, but no birth certificate??? Why is there no hospital protocol when a birth results in a stillbirth? No autopsy (when parents want one), no chromosonal study? That is standard when it is a SIDS. Anyway, I wonder if this is my new path.

So, I am doing better today, & yesterday. I know that it will come & go. That is ok. I miss my dear Alexa, all the time, but she would not a mommy that sits & thinks about how much she is missing her all the time. My heart still weeps, but I have to live again too. I am tired of being in a fog, and perhaps this is just another stage of my grief, that is ok too. I am going to take it as it comes. Talking to my close friends help. For awhile there I was thinking, how do I go back to LLL & work those Moms & Babes. But how can I not, I love it! How do I introduce myself & my children? Do I acknowledge Alexa? I spoke with my co-leader & dear friend, & she gave me permisson to do what I wanted, but encouraged me to mention Alexa. I will, how can I not? She was/is my child. My baby. She exisited. So now I will say, I am Cristina Mom to Amber 10, Austin 7, and my Baby Alexa in heaven. There may be tears, but that is ok too.

Well this has become so much longer than I planned. Oh, I also wanted to mention the Moms study. It is research about Moms & their pregnancys that resulted in stillbirth. I would encourage anyone who experienced a loss, beyond 20 weeks to participate. We need to end this horrible tragedy if we can, or at least learn about it in a means to reduce it. While I DO NOT agree that every pregnancy is "high risk" like some of the stillbirth sites reccomend, I DO AGREE we need to learn so much more about it.

Have a good day ladies. I am with you & think of you often, too! Thanks for the unconditional support you give. I am grateful.


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## Sleepymama (Oct 9, 2003)

Cristina, it must be so hard right now, but i think that your experience will be an enormous source of empowerment for you in your work with moms and babies. I for one have enormous respect for women who have been through such tragedy and have the courage to talk about it, and would want to know about your daughter's story. Just think of all the moms you will be able to help. It must be impossible to think about now, but I think in time you will be able to use your experience as a source of strength.

I did not lose my child, but went through a lot with his birth and early months, and it took a long time for me to push through the guilt and sadness and be able to see it as part of my strength. I try to take what I learned and give it back to others who need it.


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## crazymom (Jun 4, 2005)

Hi Cristina -
Your last posting prompted me to do a little research on the www also! I only found one website that dealt with Sudden Antenatal Death Syndrome...It is getting confused with an adult condition (sudden arrythmia death syndrome). This web site I did find had the numbers you were talking about in it....that 1 out of 115 babies born are born still. I just cannot understand this and why it has been allowed to go on.....I cannot speak from experience -- I had three healthy pregnancies, but with my last one I was 38 and there was a voice inside me that was telling me I was pushing the envelope with that one...I don't know what it was about it, it just felt that way --- and she was almost two weeks late and during her birth my mw informed me that "I really needed to push hard to get this baby born".....after she was born my mw told me that her umbilical cord was really long and was wrapped around her body twice and her neck twice.....I also had a lot of "strange" uterine pains that worried me in the last days/hours of my pregnancy with her.....I
I have kept up with your story and posted my thoughts and prayers to you from time to time, but this whole SADS info. has me very dumbfounded and surprised!!!! I have three daughters who plan on having children some day and I would hate to have to worry about a syndrome like this going unnoticed......have you found any more websites with info. on SADS?? I would be interested in helping in any way possible.....

Again - my thoughts and prayers are with you -- not a day goes by that I don't think of you and your family and hope you are doing better with each passing day!!


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## Debstmomy (Jun 1, 2004)

www.stillnomore.org
www.missfoundation.org

The moms study, can be linked from one of the above websites. There is a Dr.Collins in LA doing some research, but I think he is focusing on cord accidents, but in his data I am sure he is getting info on the unexplainable one.

Crazymom you are right, there is not much information. There is info on grief, but not much info on stillbirth, why???? Why? All of us Mommies that have losses ask why. So many babies die in utero & there is no funding for research. The 6/05 Midwifery today, actually has an article on it. (Came right after Alexa passed, ironic)
Anyway, I am doing lots of thinking on this.


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## coleslaw (Nov 11, 2002)

Christina, I got your PM and will respond soon, but I wanted to say that I have been thinking about what I can do help this cause. I am feeling the need to do something so that there are hgiher odds that what happened to me won't happen to someone else. For us, it appears to be due to a kink in the cord that happened because the cord was wrapped around her neck a certain way (it was wrapped multiple times and tight). Now, no one can say for sure this was it, because there is no test to prove it. There is only other tests that eliminate other causes.

A group called M.E.N.D. is doing a walk to gain awareness of losses due to m/c, s/b and early infant deaths. Here is a link - M.E.N.D. walk
I thought maybe I would want to organize soething like this. MEND is a Christian group so this particular group may not mesh with everyone, but maybe I'll create my own.

Lobbying is another route, but it would take some effort on my part to figure out how to go about this and what people are looking for since I have never done anything close. Any ideas on this from anyone?

It would be great if we put our heads together to come up with something, indiviually or together. Maybe just brainstorm. I think I'm going to start a spearate thread on this. For me, I am at a place where the anger is still there to motivate me and although I have seen a lot of good come out of Grace's short time on this Earth, it's not enough. I have a lot of questions, regret and guilt myself and I need an outlet. I'll start a thread now.


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## crazymom (Jun 4, 2005)

Cristina and Coleslaw - I will take a better look at these websites over the weekend, but they look interesting and I would like to help with this cause in any way I can....I know I have not suffered the losses you have and hope I am not offending you in wanting to participate in any way I can....like I said earlier -- I have three daughters and want to help with this cause in any way I can so they don't possibly have to go through this ever in their lives....plus, your stories have touched me deeply.....


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Wow. Christina, this is so interesting. I hope this helps you find your path.

It is very intereting to come across this info on MDC.

Most of these groups advocate "high managment" of pregnancies aware of the very real odds of something going wrong in seemingly low risk pregnancies. As someone who believed strongly in managing my preganancies as high risk, I totally support this. But I was wondering how some of this stuff will go over here.


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## Debstmomy (Jun 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maya44*
As someone who believed strongly in managing my preganancies as high risk, I totally support this. But I was wondering how some of this stuff will go over here.

You know Maya, this is where I am so SO SO conflicted. As a doula, one educated about childbirth, I know that not every pregnancy needs "high risk" managment. As a Mom of a stillborn, I know it is needed.(My next pregnancy I will be a nervous ninny & will be highly monitored. I am ok with that for ME)
I just need to figure out the middle ground. I am still working on it. I need to rediscover my trust in the birth process, for it failed me BIG TIME!


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Debstmomy*
You know Maya, this is where I am so SO SO conflicted. As a doula, one educated about childbirth, I know that not every pregnancy needs "high risk" managment. As a Mom of a stillborn, I know it is needed.(My next pregnancy I will be a nervous ninny & will be highly monitored. I am ok with that for ME)
I just need to figure out the middle ground. I am still working on it. I need to rediscover my trust in the birth process, for it failed me BIG TIME!

I can understand how you would be conflicted. I respect those who feel that brith is a natural process that does not need high risk intervention.

For me, I was not comfortable with that. I can understand how you might feel that way too now. But alot of this is just based on gut feeling and for me a weighing of the odds. For me any "risk" I could avoid, I did, even if it was very tiny.

And although I can only imagine the second guessing you are doing now, you did what you thought was best for your child. That is all that any of us can do.

I really hope that as you work to find your middle ground, you find some peace and eventually happiness.


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## rn (Jul 27, 2003)

Maya and Cristina...

I think its interesting that you are both talking about this high risk subject.
I too believe very strongly in the natural process of childbirth. I was attempting a VBAC with Freddie and just never went into labor, (I went into labor sponataniously w/ my first pregnancy). I still feel that with ME something went wrong, but with the majority of VBAC's and pregnancies everything works out fine. As for me, if I am lucky enough to become pregnant again and have another baby, I will do things differently. At this point I doubt very highly that I would attempt another VBAC. And I will for sure see an OB.

The thing that I think is our biggest problem (with most people) is that we are not taught to listen to our instincts or our "gut" feelings. I had some strong feelings several days before Freddie was born by c/s, before we realized that he was in trouble. I ignored them and brushed them off as normal pregnancy nervousness. But I really believe that my body and mind was trying to tell me that something was going wrong. I think that most people have these instincts within them, but we are not taught and have no idea how to honor them. How to really listen to ourselves.

So it is a rough one, I don't think ALL pregnancy should be regarded as high risk, but I do think everyone needs to be VERY self aware when growing a baby. I also think that those of us who have had a baby die are in a totally different category. It is no longer about the process of how the baby is born.
It is just to do anything we can to keep our sanity and have a healthy live baby when it is all over.

~robin


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## XM (Apr 16, 2002)

Much love to all of you, especially those of you who have had recent losses.









Cristina, I am so sorry you lost your little girl. Its been 3 years since we lost Xiola, and her death has gone from being something that defined me to something that is a part of me. You will find your way. Grief is a process, and as much as it feels like it would be better to get it over with, the grief work that you don't do now can haunt you later. I'm so glad that you are feeling supported and loved right now. The death of a loved one- especially a child- turns your world upside down. It will take time for you to feel safe in the world again, but it will happen.

We had Xiola in a hospital with an OB, she was born 10d postdate and died during the 10m I was pushing her out. Ezra was born at home in the caul, with a midwife 14d postdate. Xiola was meconium stained, her brother was even later but his amniotic fluid was pristine, and his placenta looked great. Every birth is different. Please don't second guess yourself. You made the best choices you could with the information you had.

Alexa knows this. She knows she is loved. She will always be with you.


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## Debstmomy (Jun 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rnweiss*
The thing that I think is our biggest problem (with most people) is that we are not taught to listen to our instincts or our "gut" feelings. I had some strong feelings several days before Freddie was born by c/s, before we realized that he was in trouble. I ignored them and brushed them off as normal pregnancy nervousness. But I really believe that my body and mind was trying to tell me that something was going wrong. I think that most people have these instincts within them, but we are not taught and have no idea how to honor them. How to really listen to ourselves. ~robin


Robin, I TOTALLY agree with you. I had a nagging feeling during my entire pregnancy that my baby would not live. I posted a little bit about it during my pregnancy on my DDC. I tried to pinpoint the feeling it but couldn't. I had many feelings that she would die. In fact when my MW could not find a HB, I stated "I knew this was going to happen". Which makes me wonder, would she have died no matter what I had done? I will never know.


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## coleslaw (Nov 11, 2002)

I never felt very "attached" to Grace while pg with her. In comparison, it took me awhile to get attached to my oldest, but once she started kicking, I was in love. Then with my baby who m/c, I was attached from the second I got the +HPT and was completely and utterly sure it was a boy. (That feeling went away right around the time, in hindsight, that he died as well as the close feeling). Then with Grace, I spotted a lot during the first trimester, the first time at five weeks. I still remember shaking and crying thinking she was going to die. I never shook that feeling. Even just days before, I still hesitated on whether she would be here or not. I kept saying, "I'm starting to think I am really going to have a baby," but never felt sure. I could account for my feelings about Grace due to so many losses in my life during the past year, but I wonder. Was there something there that only I would know - like the umbilical cord not made quite strong enough so as not to kink? I don't know. It's something that rolls around in my mind very often. Maybe someday science will catch up to mother's intuition.


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## nydiagonz (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Debstmomy*
How do I introduce myself & my children? Do I acknowledge Alexa? I spoke with my co-leader & dear friend, & she gave me permisson to do what I wanted, but encouraged me to mention Alexa. I will, how can I not? She was/is my child. My baby. She exisited. So now I will say, I am Cristina Mom to Amber 10, Austin 7, and my Baby Alexa in heaven. There may be tears, but that is ok too.

Cristina,

I am so glad that you are able to laugh and have a somewhat decent day now. It is so hard to function sometimes. I have felt the same way about talking about my son... We have only been married 2 years and one of the first questions people ask me when they haven't seen me for a while is "any kids yet?" and of course "where is your baby?" ARRRRGGHHH!! I feel like these questions have been aked more this month than any other time. I spoke with my husband about it because I was so confused in the beginning and didn't know how to answer. His take on it was "just say no if you don't want to have the conversation". Now I have realized that I was going to say no for THEM, not for US.

When people ask me, I hesitate for a second (I think it's to gather up strength) and then I say "YES! We have a son, but he is our angel now." It hurts every time I say it, but just as dressing him, hugging him, knitting clothes for him helped me feel like I gave him something... I feel like every time I acknowledge his existence and say his name, I am giving him another hug in heaven.

I have also been desperately seeking answers for what happened to us, and my husband thinks I'm going to drive myself insane with the research. It is just sooooo frustrating to not know why and be able to do something about it. I got the news yesterday (after the placenta had been analyzed) that the abruption had nothing to do with my MTHFR geneic variant. That was "good" news because that means it shouldn't happen again.... but I am back to the "what if" game and thinking back on everything I did, looking for a reason or answer.

Sigh.... Cristina, I think about you and Alexa Rose often. I want to share my pics with you (and any other mamas here) if you are interested because seeing the pictures of your beautiful girl has helped me in my healing and your strength has been inpirational for me... I thank you.

http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=...&x=0&y=-51ou2o

Nydia


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## Debstmomy (Jun 1, 2004)

Nydia thank you for sharing your beautiful son. You son was so loved by you & your husband.







s

Nydia, you sound like me. Looking, searching for answers. Unfortunatly, for me, the answers will never come. I am part of that 70% that will never know. I am trying to find peace in that. It did help talking to my OB yesterday. My midwife has been awesome. I hope you can find peace as well.

I also think that we need to talk about our babies when asked. Right now it is hard, & I fear going out in public, but I know I will get there soon & I will proudly share Alexa's story. I think it is so sad, that this is such a common thing, but know one talks about it. They are our babies, & they must be aknowledged.

Take care.
Warmllly,

Cristina


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## Debstmomy (Jun 1, 2004)

Today it is one month since Alexa was born still. I feel so helpless. Is that normal? I can not stand it. I try to think of the future & it is so hard. It seems like time is passing so slow, but yet it has been a month. I am still deep in grief. Last night I was screaming & hitting my bed. I think if scared my DH, but is sure felt good. He is worried about me. Anyone else scream & hit inadimate objects? Thanks for letting me voice things here. It helps.

To make things worse, my other two were jumping on my bed & broke it. Now Dh is working on a way to fix it. Darn them! They have been banished to their room for now. I can not deal with all this right now!!!!!!!!


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## XM (Apr 16, 2002)

Yes, its normal. I broke all kinds of shit after we lost our dd... you have so much ______ (rage, fear, guilt, sadness, helplessness... etc.) that sometimes it manifests physically. In one of the grief books I read, a woman tells of how she went and bought a bunch of plates from Goodwill and when she was feeling really angry, she'd go down to her garage and break them. For her, it helped get that energy out.

Don't worry about freaking out your dh or your kids. Something happened that was very awful and you are working through it. Trying to pretend that everything is normal and that you aren't hurting will only make things worse in the long run.


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## rn (Jul 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nydiagonz*

Sigh.... Cristina, I think about you and Alexa Rose often. I want to share my pics with you (and any other mamas here) if you are interested because seeing the pictures of your beautiful girl has helped me in my healing and your strength has been inpirational for me... I thank you.

http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=...&x=0&y=-51ou2o

Nydia

Nydia,

thank you for sharing your pics of Abdullah. He was so tiny and perfect. And obviously very loved, he will always be loved.
It is not fair...
It is just not fair.

Robin


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## KatherineinCA (Apr 4, 2002)

Cristina--

Yes to the screaming and hitting inanimate objects! I remember posting here about that when my grief was still new, and several moms here contributed their own stories of the things they broke. It made me feel so much better. I also have older children, so I relate to having to deal with their emotions, too. A book I found helpful is "When Children Grieve" by John James and Russell Friedman. My twins were 8 and my younger son was almost 3 when Kevin was stillborn.

I also relate to the guilt and regret. It seems to come down to my choice in homebirth midwives. The two that I chose were sloppy and dismissed my poor growth. I have since talked to midwives that would have been getting an ultrasound based on my measurements. And I have now found out that the two I used have a very poor reputation in the birth community, and are known as not-very-competent. Added to that, my husband never wanted a homebirth, and when Kevin died, it confirmed to my husband that all my ideas about alternative health were faulty. He actually asked me that night in the hospital, "Does this mean we can get Kyle vaccinated now?" Needless to say, we've had to work through a lot. Over time (it's been 2 1/2 years) I can feel that I'm starting to trust myself again and to trust that I made the best choices I could based on the information I had at the time.

Just want you to know you are not alone.









Much love and support,
Katherine


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## wheezie (Sep 18, 2004)

I'm so sorry you're playing the "what if" game. It's an awful thing to lose a child, but even worse to think you had a part in them dying. Oh hon, I am SO sorry that you're hurting right now. Please know that it wasn't your fault. (easier said than done, I know). My heart hurts for you right now, and for all the other mamas who feel the same way.








I'm glad you're getting counseling, especially for your children. Watch them closely, as children can grieve just as badly as we do. We went through a year of heartache, watching my then 3 yr old mourn for her baby brother. I had NO IDEA kids could grieve to the extent that she did, and continues to do to this day.

(((HUGS)))


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