# Should I not have my nephew circumcised?



## KHalton (Jul 24, 2006)

My sister died last week and I now have custody of her four children, one of whom is a 2 year old boy.
He is not circumcised, probably because she never had the money to do it. I can't imagine her not wanting him circumcised.
I just joined MDC ten minutes ago, and happened to notice this board. I am taking the kids to my family doctor tomorrow and intended to get a referral to someone to have Benny circumcised.
I am new to all things child related, but I thought all boys were supposed to be circumcised. Why wouldn't I circumcise him? And how will I take care of him if it's not done? Won't he have problems?


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

All the sticky threads above are full of great info. The bottom line why both of my sons are intact is thta #1 there is no reason to do it #2 it's his choice, not mine #3 tons of medical complications for doing it #4 circ will decrease his feeling down there #5 it looks ugly.

Boys are not suppose to be circed, they were born with their foreskin for a reason. HTH


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## Tofu the Geek (Dec 2, 2003)

I am on my way to a meeting so only have a second here, but the bottom line is, whether or not to chop off part of a penis is up to the penis owner and no one else! In almost all cases, circumcision is cosmetic surgery and not necessary.


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KHalton*
My sister died last week and I now have custody of her four children, one of whom is a 2 year old boy.
He is not circumcised, probably because she never had the money to do it. I can't imagine her not wanting him circumcised.
I just joined MDC ten minutes ago, and happened to notice this board. I am taking the kids to my family doctor tomorrow and intended to get a referral to someone to have Benny circumcised.
I am new to all things child related, but I thought all boys were supposed to be circumcised. Why wouldn't I circumcise him? And how will I take care of him if it's not done? Won't he have problems?


Please do not do this. It is not just a piece of skin. Please read this board.

It is very informative.

It is a protective piece of skin, even if you tried to pull it back at this point in time he will cry. Why? because it usually doesnt detatch from the head of hte penis until about 5 years old. Sometimes earlier.

THe foreskin is actually FUSED to the penis much like the fingernail is fused to the fingernail bed.

You never have to touch it, no more than a circed penis. There is nothing abnormal about it..... Just wash it like you would his pinky finger.

You never have to retract it.

Most medical insurance agencies will not cover a circumcision because it is purely a cosmetic surgery and the rates in the states for this surgery have been dropping dramatically since the 70's.

I am 25 years old. i am a Man. And I wish my mother hand never circumcized me.

80% of the worlds Viagra supply is sold in america. Also 80% of the worlds circumcized population resides in America. Coincidence?

Our society would never think of cutting the labia off or clitoral hood off however in Mid eastern countries they do this routinely for the 'same' justifications we cut off a boys foreskin.

Your sister had a plan in not circumcizing him. She may not have wanted to tell anyone because she didn't want to be chastised or told she was wrong.

She wasn't..... It is cutting off a functioning piece of a healthy body.

at 2 years old it is not a simple procedure anymore, many times stitches are involved because of the pain. At 2 years old the child can actually voice the pain they are going through instead of just crying.

There will be a month to 2 months of recovery for this surgery, where you will not be able to give him adequate pain medication and you will have to care for the wound....

Just leave it alone..... there is no need for it.... please hang around these boards and read up on intact penis's.....

You may have heard it is dirtier? It is not.... You never have to retract it, no matter what a dr or a mother or someone else tells you, European countries get along just fine without retracting their boys on a daily basis. It doesn't cross their mind.

Why? because retracting a penis before it is ready causes tiny tears in the foreskin and promotes infection. That is why we have so many problems with foreskins in america, because the Doctors are not trained on how to handle one......

Would you put a little girl through a cosmetic surgery because you wanted to?..... No..... please do not do it to this helpless little man who can not speak up and defend himself.


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

First off all boys SHOULD have foreskin that's why they are born with it afterall.
Secondly the poor little guy just lost his mama the last thing he needs is the trauma of an unnecessary and painful surgery.


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## KHalton (Jul 24, 2006)

I never knew it was a bad thing to do. I never would have thought that. I doubt my sister did it for his wellbeing honestly. Maybe he got lucky by default, but I find it incredibly hard to believe she didn't circumcise him because she thought it would be better for him.
I never once thought it was even an option. I thought it was just done. I've been pulling back the skin to clean it when I change his diaper because the social worker told me to. That's wrong too?
I'm not evil and I have no desire to hurt him. I am just completely clueless about children. I put the six year old in the car with just the seatbelt and put the 4 year old in the baby's ratty old shield booster and bought the three year old a booster because that's what the social workers and foster parents told me to do. She also told me that Benny wasn't circumcised and I had to clean him very carefully until I could get it done. She made it sound like it needed to be done as soon as possible.
I'm just trying to do right by these kids. Their mother was a dead beat and an addict and I have no clue who their fathers are. I went from being single and childless and living the high life to having four small kids and not knowing what to do with them.
Can you point me somewhere online to research circumcision and see why it's bad? I want to make an informed decision for him.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

Sorry about your loss, I can't imagine what your sister's children are going thru. But, It's hard for me to understand why on earth you would consider circumsizing her 2 year old child. Leave him alone, he was born with a forskin, your sister did NOT have him circumcised... there is no reason why his penis should be cut now. Read, read, read about why circumcision is horribly wrong.

Both my sons are not circumcised and neither is my husband, 2 brothers and dad. They are just fine, no problems, no special care is needed. A large majority of the males in the world are NOT circumcized. Leave him alone, it's his body not yours.

ETA: you don't need to pull back his foreskin to clean him, just wash around the outside. I think it's awesome that you are taking on this huge responsibility by raising your sister's children. And it's great that you are trying to educate yourself on child rearing. I imagine it's a hard time for you and you have a lot on your mind. Good luck with it all.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Here is my story. I hope it helps.

My name is Rebecca. I was blessed with three boys and one girl. My three boys are circumcised and I have been doing research this past week about circumcision. I first started questioning it a slight bit in the last few months. My nephew is intact due to problems at birth and they were unable to circumcise him. I have found myself advocating keeping him intact without even really knowing why. I started thinking more on the subject after talking with Yoshua. I made a comment about the Case against Circumcision board and he let me know his thoughts. He is quite the advocate for keeping boys intact. We talked back and forth all this week through PM's and IM's. He even encouraged me to post on the board though I have to admit I was a bit intimidated by the idea. I was not sure how it would go over. I had a lot of things going through my mind at the time and wasn't sure of much of anything. I was also dealing with some unexpected feelings that came to surface which had little to do with circumcision; at least I couldn't initially figure out the connection. Yoshua was unwavering through all my questions and doubt. He always had a way of making his point without offending me or making me feel like I should be on the defensive. I have made the decision after much thought that circumcision is indeed wrong and unnecessary. I really have Yoshua to thank for encouraging me along. I have a thread in Case against Circumcision if you are interested in following a small part of my journey. Here are my stories.

My oldest son has a typical circumcision as far as I could tell. He is now eleven years old. I remember when he was circumcised in the hospital he was five days old. He weighed four pounds five and a half ounces. They weren't sure if they were even going to circumcise him because of his size, but decided at the last minute to go ahead with it. I remember being so upset when they brought him back to me and I changed his diaper the first time. It looked so sore and raw. I remember when the doctor came in to look at him and check the circumcision my son's hand inadvertently hit his penis separating the skin along the shaft from the head of his penis. I remember thinking that probably wasn't a good thing and the doctor even commented about that not being helpful. They just advised me to keep changing the bandage for a couple of extra days and he would be fine. We never had any other issues and his circumcision seemed to heal fine. However, now I wonder, after looking through some of the pictures, if he will have issues when he hits puberty. His circumcision looks very similar to this photograph I found on one the sites showing complications. http://www.circumcisionquotes.com/images/slide8.jpg. The remaining skin under the head of his penis is a bit tighter than the one in the picture. I always thought it healed that way from the way he hit his penis. I never even thought about it until now. I can only pray that he won't encounter problems as he grows and matures.

My middle son was circumcised at three days old. I never even thought anything of it. I just viewed it as a procedure that was done. He had what I believe is termed a loose circumcision. He didn't even appear to be circumcised most of the time. The head of his penis remained covered unless we pulled the foreskin back which we were told to do at each cleaning. He started having issues with adhesions when he approximately six months old. I was told by the pediatrician to just be sure I pulled his foreskin back and clean really well. He showed us how to pull the skin back so that the entire head was exposed. I remember how much my son cried and screamed when we did this to him. I was supposed to do this each diaper change so the adhesions would not return. I couldn't do it all the time, so I would try to do it once a week. He would cry for a day or two each time we did this to him because the skin was torn from his penis and it would cause pain upon urination. The pediatrician finally referred us to an urologist who recommended we have him circumcised again. He said the adhesions would keep coming back and the re-circumcision would prevent further issues. At eighteen months old my little boy was re-circumcised. After the surgery, we were brought to him and he seemed just fine. When the doctor came in, he wanted to show us how to care for his penis as there were eighteen stitches just below the head of his penis. You couldn't see them when you took off his diaper because the remaining foreskin was still covering most of the head of his penis. The doctor instructed us to pull the skin over his penis and gently clean around the stitches. My son would scream and cry because of all the pain he was in, but we were told the stitches would become infected if we did not clean it properly. My son spent the next several years in fear of anyone touching penis. We taught him how to clean and pull the remaining skin over his penis, but we still would have to clean it sometimes for him. It took my husband and me to clean his penis. My husband would lie across him so he couldn't move and I would pull the skin back to clean it. I tried to by gentle, but it didn't matter. We continued doing this until he was close to five years old. He is now eight and he is in charge of cleaning his own penis. The head of his penis is still covered about halfway and he spends a lot of time pushing on his penis to get it back in what skin remains. He said it feels weird if it is out and he does not like the feeling. I would also get on him about doing this because it bothered me to watch him constantly pushing on his penis. I will no longer be reprimanding him for this as maybe it will help to save some of the sensitivity that I am sure will be gone once he grows and matures. I can only pray he doesn't loose as much as his brother who never had any skin covering the head of his penis.

My youngest son was circumcised at three days old as well. He has a loose circumcision as well. He had always appeared to not be circumcised. I used to have family ask me why we did not circumcise him. When I said we did, they would always say they did not take enough off. We did not have the adhesion issues with him as we did with his brother. He seemed to do just fine. I made sure to be more diligent in pulling his foreskin back and cleaning it because I feared a repeat of what happened with his brother. My youngest son is now five years old and I can say he had picked up on his brother's cues to push his penis in the remaining skin. The head of his penis is just now starting to be seen most of the time. He is intent on keeping the foreskin over it as much as possible. I used to reprimand him as well for "messing" with his penis. Now, I remain silent and pray for him as well. I have more regret than I ever thought I would for subjecting my boys to this unnecessary procedure. There is nothing I can do now, but pray they will understand and forgive me when they realize what I allowed to happen to them.

Thank you for taking the time to read this small novel of mine. It has actually helped to write it down and I hope it makes some amount of sense.

Rebecca


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## Daisie125 (Oct 26, 2005)

I only have a minute, but PLEASE stop pulling back his foreskin to clean under it! That is a HUGE NO-NO! It will hurt him!


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## Pigpen (Dec 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KHalton*
My sister died last week and I now have custody of her four children.

I just have to say that YOU ARE AMAZING! I read your other post about the circumstances of this major life change and I'm so sorry for those kids, but so happy that they have you advocating for them now. The fact that you're here asking questions shows how much you are willing to do for them.
I have two intact boys and the only time I ever had a problem was after an unthinking doctor "accidentally" partially retracted my sons foreskin. You'll learn a lot here, just as I have about all things parenting. This board is soooo different than others so I'm glad you ended up here.


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## blessedwithboys (Dec 8, 2004)

i am sorry for butting in, but your post brought tears to my eyes. i am so sorry you lost your sister, and feel very deeply for her babies. no matter how inattentive she may have been to them due to her illness, they have suffered a great loss. i also wanted to thank you for putting so much effort into these children. so many would never do this type of research, even for their own kids.

i didnt do it for mine, not until it was too late anyway. my boys have both been deprived of their foreskins, and i regret it terribly.







please dont do it.


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## Attached Mama (Dec 4, 2005)

Hi! Welcome to MDC and thanks for asking!

You can get tons of free info sent to you from www.nocirc.org they are great!!

But here is some to get you started!

circumcision is a *very painful* and unnecessary amputation of healthy functioning tissue.

did you know the foreskin has over 200 thousand nerve endings? it is the most sensitive part of the penis - as sensitive as fingertips or lips.

The surgery is not just a quick snip like we are led to believe. It is similiar to someone removing your pinky fingernail if it went all the way around your finger. It has to be cut down into, cut all around, and then cut around the bottom. This is because the foreskin is attached to the penis. It takes more than a minute or two and is very painful.

Pankillers for it include 4 shots similiar to novacaine in the base of hte penis which are extremely painful and traumatic in and of htemselves.Most docs don't use them because they also have side affects. If they are used, Docs often don't wait for the painkillers to "take" and proceed immed with the surgery. Even if they do wait the painkillers don't block all of the pain due to the amazing number of nerve endings in the foreskin. Plus they do nothing for the after pain.

many woman complain of men going on forever and irritation because the men are circumcised and it is actually difficult for the man to have an orgasm.

Woman can have vaginal orgasms much easier with an intact man because the man doesn't have to work so hard and is able to keep more pressure where the woman needs it.

The US is the only nation on earth practicing routine circ and even here it is down to only 34% being circ in some areas of the nation.

Circ began in the US in the victorian age when many docs believed it would prevent masturbation due to the extreme removal of sensitive body part. it was practiced to prevent masturbation up into the middle of this century. Also believed it would prevent diarrhea, epilepsy, mental retardation etc all of which seem ridiculous to us today. Then they started to say it prevented cancers and stds which has also been disproven. now they are saying from 1 study that it can prevent aids - but you still have to wear a condom to prevent aids so then it is a mute point whether you are intact or amputated. You wear a condom, you have a circ penis which is less sensitive and doesn't like a condom KWIM? So soon they will see the lack of logic in this and will be on to finding a new "reason"

circ does not prevent infections and is not "cleaner" the intact penis cleans itself similiar to the vagina or eyeball.

Well, I could go on and on but DD is teething and whiney. Congrats to you for looking into this before doing it and for taking in these children. Keep looking on Mothering here and I'm sure you will end up being a wonderful mom!!! It's the best job in the world!









PS - oh yeah - realize that docs make a ton of money off circ and that they also can make more by selling the foreskin to cosmetic co or bandaging co who use the tissue to make flexible bandages or anti-wrinkle creams. UGh! I know! but very true


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

I am so glad you are reading this.

Give me a few minutes and I will write something up for you about the 'quick reference' guide on what to do and what not to do.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

I'm SO glad you're here! This board in general (Mothering) will help you a lot as you navigate raising those precious children. I'm so sorry to hear of the loss of your sister.

No, no, no, don't have your nephew circumcised! The poor thing has been through enough trauma with losing his mama. There is absolutely NO reason to circumcise him!

Here's an excellent "conversation" about why you shouldn't circumcise him:

http://oknocirc.blogspot.com/

And, as others have said, do NOT retract to clean him! That will only cause problems. The foreskin is fused to the glans.......much the way a fingernail is fused to the finger. You wash/wipe the OUTSIDE of the penis only. Sometime between now and puberty, he will retract on his own. (You shouldn't be the one to retract him......he should.)

When he hits puberty, you can teach him to gently retract his foreskin, wash underneath it with water (soap is irritating), and replace the foreskin.

Come back with any other questions you have, as well.

Also you can go to a local police department and they will be happy to talk to you about carseats.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KHalton*
I never knew it was a bad thing to do. I never would have thought that. I doubt my sister did it for his wellbeing honestly. Maybe he got lucky by default, but I find it incredibly hard to believe she didn't circumcise him because she thought it would be better for him.

It is entirely possible your sister did opt to have him remain intact though.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KHalton*
I never once thought it was even an option. I thought it was just done. I've been pulling back the skin to clean it when I change his diaper because the social worker told me to. That's wrong too?

I was exactly where you were not so many months ago. Please read my journey....I re-posted it above. It isn't your decision to make for your nephew. He will have the option to have the surgery if he decides as an adult. You can't put the foreskin back on. The surgery is soo much more involved with a child. My son had 18 stitches around the head of his penis. We had to retract over the stitches each time we changes him. It took my son years, not a month or two, to not scream when someone came near his penis.

You should never pull the foreskin back.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KHalton*
I'm not evil and I have no desire to hurt him. I am just completely clueless about children. I put the six year old in the car with just the seatbelt and put the 4 year old in the baby's ratty old shield booster and bought the three year old a booster because that's what the social workers and foster parents told me to do. She also told me that Benny wasn't circumcised and I had to clean him very carefully until I could get it done. She made it sound like it needed to be done as soon as possible.
I'm just trying to do right by these kids. Their mother was a dead beat and an addict and I have no clue who their fathers are. I went from being single and childless and living the high life to having four small kids and not knowing what to do with them.

I don't think anyone here thinks you are evil or have a desire to hurt him. You can go through most health departments and obtain booster seats/carseats for free or a small fee. They can advise you as to what the children need to be safe in your car.

I applaud you for taking on such a huge responsiblity. It is a major change for all involved, but I am sure you will be just fine. Spend some time checking out other areas on this board. There is a wealth of information available to you.



KHaltonCan you point me somewhere online to research circumcision and see why it's bad? I want to make an informed decision for him.[/QUOTE said:


> You can start with the stickies above and go from there. Please feel free to PM if you have any questions.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

And here's a long thread of mamas who regret getting their sons circumcised:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=112410


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## AutumnMama (Jan 2, 2004)

You've gotten some excellent advice so far. I'll just second it all by saying NO, you do not need to (and should not







) get him circumcised; and don't pull back his foreskin when changing/bathing him!
Both are absolutely unnecessary and will cause problems for him.
The social worker who told you to retract and clean his penis is unfortunately very misinformed (like many US doctors also).

Nothing needs to be done to your nephew's penis, just wipe over it like you would a finger and you're good to go!
Anything more can lead to tearing and infections.

I'm so glad you posted here, I think it's wonderful that you are caring enough to research this subject!

And a little off topic, but as far as the car seat situation goes, I would STRONGLY suggest you go to the forums at car-safety.org. There are lots of very helpful mamas/techs that will be able to assist you in finding (and find a tech to help with getting installed) the safest carseats for your little ones









Good luck to you in this big undertaking, it's GREAT that you're doing this for them...they will appreciate you for the rest of their lives!


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## stellimamo (Jan 9, 2006)

Your sister died last week and you worried about whether you should circumcise her son? Don't you think he's been through enough trauma recently?


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Ok. here I go. i apologize if this is a bit long

For starters, the foreskin.

There are 3 pieces of importance.

Ridged Band:
The tip of the foreskin sort of looks like a sphincter. That is the ridged band. It is designed to keep the foreskin tight around the head of the penis until the hormonal changes that usually occure sometimes between 5-14 and the child can retract on his own. If you retract this to early and regularly it will cause the ridged band to become scar tissue instead of elastic. This is a condition called 'phimosis'

Phimosis in america is usually considered curable by 'circumcision' but that is NOT the only cure. Stretching excerisized can also cure this. So it is ludicrous to cut off the foreskin if stretching it will cure it.... only in america.

Mucousal Skin: The inside of the foreskin.
This is moist, somewhat like the inside of the vagina. The purpose of this is to keep the head of the penis moist. It is actually intended to be a somewhat internal organ, much like the clitoris.

Circumsizing this removes this. That causes the head of the penis to dry out. This is why I wish I was never circumcized. Intact men actualy have more sensations DURING INTERCOURSE than just the orgasm, they actually have more feeling during sex. Circed men claim 'that sex is still good, or I don't feel broken' but that is because they have never researched it and have never experianced intact sex.

The skin Itself:
This is a protective layer, much like the clitoral hood. Imagine if you will, catching your clitoral hood in a zipper, that would hurt right? really bad? Now imagine of the hood wasn't there to protect it? What if you caught your actual CLITORIS in the zipper?.... That is the difference for men too, the hood vs the glans (head) getting caught.

It is there to protect.

Ok.... my next post will be about the care of the penis....


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stellimamo*
Your sister died last week and you worried about whether you should circumcise her son? Don't you think he's been through enough trauma recently?


Some people are very vocal about their opinions.

Do not listen to them if that will cause you to leave the board.

many people will help educate you, thank you for listening and sticking around.

Some people feel very very passionate about this issue.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stellimamo*
Your sister died last week and you worried about whether you should circumcise her son? Don't you think he's been through enough trauma recently?


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## MiamiMami (Feb 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stellimamo*
Your sister died last week and you worried about whether you should circumcise her son? Don't you think he's been through enough trauma recently?

If you read her post you'll see that she's getting assistance and advice from a social worker. She has no experience with children. She is doing the best she can. I am very happy she has come here to ask questions and do her research.


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

The Care of the Intact Penis:

Do NOTHING. for the most part.

When a child is born the foreskin is a Prepuce. By definition that means it is attatched, fused to the skin it is protecting.

The foreskin at birth is much like a fingernail in how it is attatched to the head of the penis. When a doctor circumcizes a newborn they actually have to insert a blunt metalic object to tear the foreskin fromt he head of the penis before they can amputate it.

If your 2 year old is not retractable you may notice he is irritated when you go to clean him, that is because you are causing him pain.

if he IS retractible you still do not need to clean under it. it is a self cleaning organ. If you see a lil poop in the hole when you go to change his diaper just brush it out as you would a little girl. The foreskin is much like the vagina in this way, you wouldnt open up a vagina to clean it out, so you shouldn't open a foreskin either.

Every time the foreskin is retracted after it has attempted to heal itself you cause minor tears on the head of hte penis which opens it up to infections. Some doctors will try to tell you that you HAVE to circumcize for these infections.

Find a new doctor if that is the case.

They can take a bacteria culture by swabbing it, just like they would a little girl. Determine what is causing the infection and give the same medications. In most cases it is a case of a yeast infection, and monistat is prescribed just as they would for a little girl.

Most situations that arise with an intact penis can be taken care of the same way it would be for a little girl, with no surgeries needed.

When the boy is old enough to retract just tell him to swish around in the bath tub with it retracted to clean it off. He will do the majority of the cleaning of his penis by the time it retracts.

First retraction can be irritating/painful. But he will soldier through it. Not always but it is possible. Do not become alarmed if he says his penis hurts because he pulled it to hard. That is one of the normal parts of retraction, he will do it all on his own, just tell him 'Well next time don't pull so hard'. He won't listen, but that's all you have to say.

The only time to be worried is if he is having troubles urinating. Seriously.

If he is, he may have a urinary tract infection, which is also cured in the same way they would for a girl.

If they ever have to catheter him, do not let them retract, it is not needed. they can fish for the hole without retracting. Retracting is NEVER needed, not even at well baby check ups.

Before a doctor ever pulls off his diaper make sure to inform them that you do not want to retract, if they say they have to just a 'lil' bit, tell them 'no' adamantly. It is not needed, ever, it would be like saying "I need to pull the labia apart just a little to look inside'

Doctors are used to seeing circed penis's in america, up until recently that is. You can FIND a ped who is intact savvy if you look for one. Just ask them what their policy is on retraction, if they say 'never do it' you found one.

Never retract, he will do it on his own, in his own time.

Avoid bubble bathes, that can irritate the foreskin if soap gets inside the foreskin, even if he isn't retractible.


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## dynamohumm6 (Feb 22, 2005)

Welcome to MDC!

First off, I am sorry for the loss of your sister. It must be TREMENDOUSLY earthshattering to now have custody of her four children. I'm so happy that you are here at MDC, and perhaps have the chance to give them a much better life.

Secondly, you've gotten some wonderful information about why NOT to circumsize, and that you should never, ever retract a child's foreskin to clean under it, so I won't bother addressing that topic except to add that circumcision is wrong wrong wrong, unnecessary, and damaging. An adult should never alter a child's future sexuality. There are a million and one reasons NOT to circ, and not one single reason TO circ. Again, please disregard what the social worker is telling you about pulling back his foreskin. This could damage him and cause infections.

Third - you mentioned some confusion about the car seats. If you go to any state police barrack, they should be able to correctly install your seats for you, free of charge.

Hugs to you, I hope you have some good support for all this. Those kids will need you so much right now, my heart goes out to you all!


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

also wanted to say feel free to PM me, ANY QUESTIONS don't hesitate. I will also keep an eye on this thread.

I'll do anything I can to help....

Thank you again for caring enough to ask.


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## aira (Jun 16, 2004)

This is what I posted on another site about this:

Quote:

It is important to know that any separation of the foreskin from the glans prior to it's natural separation (anytime up until puberty or even later) is dangerous. Even if doctors or other medical professionals do it. Forcible retraction is the main reason for "complications" of having a foreskin. Forcible retraction - even very gentle retraction over time - can cause adhesions, infections, and worse. It is likely to set the boy up for a lifetime of these issues.

The natural fusing of the foreskin to the glans in childhood - similar to the way fingernails are attached to fingers - breaks down slowly over time until it is no longer attached. (And sometimes with a little help from the boy whose penis it is. But that's his own business.) This should never be disrupted.

A penis needs no special cleaning before it retracts naturally, and then only for the boy/man to retract and wash gently. Over-cleaning would be akin to excessive douching by a female. It disrupt the beneficial flora and causes infection. Both the vagina and intact penis are self-cleaning systems. Smegma has an important purpose. It is anti-bacterial and anti-fungal.


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## Lara vanAEsir (May 24, 2006)




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## KHalton (Jul 24, 2006)

Stellimamo- My sister died last week and I am worried about a whole lot of things. Nutrition, car seats, vaccines, sleeping arrangements, health insurance, education, child care, cavities, tv, transportation, circumcision, health records, custody, HIV status, mental health, and a whole lot more. Not to mention that even though my sister has been out of my life for years and I don't approve of how she lived her life, she was still my sister and now she's dead.
I have never in my life been told that circumcision is not mandatory and healthy. In fact, quite the opposite. All I've heard are horror stories and apparently lies. Before blindly taking a scalpel to his penis I took the time to ask questions. I didn't know that circumcision wasn't done the world over. Now I do. That alone is enough for me to decide not to do it.
I have no intention of having him circumcised. I truly thought it was the right thing to do, and I was being told that by other people. Now I know differently. I don't want to hurt him. If circumcision is not going to help him, I'm not going to do it.

As far as cleaning him goes, he doesn't object at all when I pull it back. There is no blood and it doesn't look inflamed or anything. It comes back easily and then I put it back where it started and that's that. I shouldn't do that? Should I ever clean it?


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## PatchyMama (Dec 6, 2002)

I dont have any advice mama cause I do not have boys, but







What a trying time for you. Thank you for being an advocate for those children right now, thank you for caring about them. Good luck with your new role.... and I hope you stay here at MDC, its a wealth of information!


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

I am so sorry for your loss









Please as others have said do not be pulling back his foreskin to clean it this can and does cause problems. Unfortunatly many health care workers are not up to date on the care of the intact penis and wrongly tell parents to retract. All that you need to do is gently whipe the outside like a finger. When he is older and it is naturally retractable he can clean under it but he is the only one who should ever do so. Do not let dr/nurses/ anyone else retract him either read the sticky at the top of the main forum A Warning To Parents of Intact Sons.

Many insurance companies do not pay for it as it is a purly cosmetic procedure. Hopefully the ped you will be taking him to will know his facts and will tell you the truth that circ is purly cosmetic and shouldnt be done. If he says other wise he is wrong. Do not let him retract his foreskin. If it is still attached any at all it is supposed to be. It can take to puberty for it to release on its own.

Circ is finally coming out as the awfull thing it is and many parents are choosing to leave there little ones intact 53% approx of boys here in the USA are intact. 80% of the world's population is intact and they have no problems and do not need to be circed later in life.

Please leave him as he was made. Dont take something so important away from him.

Here are some facts that you need to know.
The foreskin, not the head, is the most sensitive part of the normal, intact penis.
The moveable shaft skin of an intact penis facilitates intercourse, reducing friction and prolonging pleasurable sex for both male and female.

The foreskin aids in foreplay; lubricants are optional.

An intact penis will have no circumcision scar, will often have less hair drawn up onto its shaft, and will on average be somewhat larger than a circumcised penis.

The foreskin protects and lubricates the head or "glans" of the penis for the life of its owner. The glans or head of the penis is ment to be a internal organ not rubbing on clothing.

80-85% of the world's male population has intact genitals, including nearly all European males (please note that HIV/AIDS rates are actually lower in Europe than in America).

Care of the intact infant penis is actually much easier as there is no wound care, it should never be retracted by anyone other than the child.

The forskin contains three to four feet of blood vessels, 240 feet of nerves, and 10-20,000 specialized nerve endings.

Male circumsision permanently diminishes the sexual feelings for both male and female.

No health organization in the world recommends circumcision for male infants.

The circumcision rate in the USA has fallen from 90% in 1970 to roughly 56% today.

There are NO medical benifits with routine infant circumcision. It is a cosmetic surgery, and as such most insurance companies will NOT pay for it.

When the forskin is removed 30% of sexual pleasure goes with it.
Sorry about repeating some things I cut and pasted.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Quote:

As far as cleaning him goes, he doesn't object at all when I pull it back. There is no blood and it doesn't look inflamed or anything. It comes back easily and then I put it back where it started and that's that. I shouldn't do that? Should I ever clean it?

The answer to ever clean it is a big NO NEVER. When he takes a bath swish it in the tube and wash the outside with a washcloth only like you would a finger.

He is prolly already mostly retractable but that means nothing as far as his care goes. Until he hits the age he can do it hisself leave it alone and dont let anyone else but him fool with it.

Quote:

I have no intention of having him circumcised. I truly thought it was the right thing to do, and I was being told that by other people. Now I know differently. I don't want to hurt him. If circumcision is not going to help him, I'm not going to do it.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart and thank you for being such a caring person. I am shedding happy tears right now







:
Remember any question you have please ask them here we will be more than happy to help you with anything. It pains me to see that some here seemed a bit harsh with there replies







It is such a touchy subject. We all know how important the intact penis is and can get a bit overzelous sometimes


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## aira (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:

As far as cleaning him goes, he doesn't object at all when I pull it back. There is no blood and it doesn't look inflamed or anything. It comes back easily and then I put it back where it started and that's that. I shouldn't do that? Should I ever clean it?
Well, it's possible that he had already retracted it - or partially - on his own. Many 2yo kinda make it a mission to check it out, always at their own comfort level. It's also possible that the foster parents were instructed to clean him by the social worker, and he's past the painful tearing part of forcible retraction in their care.

Only when it's fully retractile can _he_ be instructed how to pull it back while bathing and swish a little. It needs no more special effort than what girls do in bath.

.


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## aira (Jun 16, 2004)

Awesome that you are caring for these kids with so much heart and thought!









.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stellimamo*
Your sister died last week and you worried about whether you should circumcise her son?


She's doing the best she can. She's here to ask questions and learn. Please assist her if you are able.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KHalton*
Stellimamo- My sister died last week and I am worried about a whole lot of things. Nutrition, car seats, vaccines, sleeping arrangements, health insurance, education, child care, cavities, tv, transportation, circumcision, health records, custody, HIV status, mental health, and a whole lot more. Not to mention that even though my sister has been out of my life for years and I don't approve of how she lived her life, she was still my sister and now she's dead.
I have never in my life been told that circumcision is not mandatory and healthy. In fact, quite the opposite. All I've heard are horror stories and apparently lies. Before blindly taking a scalpel to his penis I took the time to ask questions. I didn't know that circumcision wasn't done the world over. Now I do. That alone is enough for me to decide not to do it.
I have no intention of having him circumcised. I truly thought it was the right thing to do, and I was being told that by other people. Now I know differently. I don't want to hurt him. If circumcision is not going to help him, I'm not going to do it.

As far as cleaning him goes, he doesn't object at all when I pull it back. There is no blood and it doesn't look inflamed or anything. It comes back easily and then I put it back where it started and that's that. I shouldn't do that? Should I ever clean it?


YOU ARE SO AMAZING!!!









And again, I'm glad you're here.

My 4 yo. is retractible, but I don't ever retract his foreskin. (sometimes he does, just because he thinks it's cool.) It really will cause problems if you to manipulate and "clean" it. It's kind of like your eyelid...........if you get something irritating in there, you'd get it out, but beyond that, you don't make a point of "cleaning" the inside of your eyelid every day, and poking around in there will just be irritating.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

I didnt even think that he may have been subject to forced retraction in the past







in that case it is even more important to protect him from it now so that he can heal and grow as nature intended.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KHalton*
Stellimamo- My sister died last week and I am worried about a whole lot of things. Nutrition, car seats, vaccines, sleeping arrangements, health insurance, education, child care, cavities, tv, transportation, circumcision, health records, custody, HIV status, mental health, and a whole lot more. Not to mention that even though my sister has been out of my life for years and I don't approve of how she lived her life, she was still my sister and now she's dead.









I wanted to apologize for the insensitivity of the other poster.







:

Your sister's children are lucky to have you in their lives. I know it is overwhelming, but you have time to learn. This board has an enourmous amount of information and experienced mamas to help you with your journey.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KHalton*
I have never in my life been told that circumcision is not mandatory and healthy. In fact, quite the opposite. All I've heard are horror stories and apparently lies. Before blindly taking a scalpel to his penis I took the time to ask questions. I didn't know that circumcision wasn't done the world over. Now I do. That alone is enough for me to decide not to do it.
I have no intention of having him circumcised. I truly thought it was the right thing to do, and I was being told that by other people. Now I know differently. I don't want to hurt him. If circumcision is not going to help him, I'm not going to do it.

It is wonderful that you are willing to come and ask questions about issues you aren't familiar with. I am glad you have decided not to circ your nephew. It is something I wish I could take back and re-do with my own boys.


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## KnitLady (Jul 6, 2006)

Just wanted to send some hugs your way! I can't imagine what you and those children are going through! It sounds you are going to do a great job as their now parent. Thanks for looking into circumcision as well as all the other issues you suddenly have to deal with.


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## boingo82 (Feb 19, 2004)

I'm sorry for your (and these kids') loss.
What an amazing undertaking - to suddenly be thrust into parenting like this. It sounds like you have a lot of researching and learning and adjusting ahead of you! I hope you stick around at the Mothering forum.









As for the circ - there is no need to do it now or ever. We know now that foreskins don't cause problems any more than any other body part. And frankly you probably have plenty on your plate right now without dealing with a post-op toddler!

As for cleaning - just wipe off the outside. In the bath he can pull back the skin and swish it around if he wants. (Most boys do.







) It will not get filthy and stinky - it is much like inside a woman's vagina: self cleaning, soap will cause irritation, and you don't want to be poking or pulling around in there unnecessarily.

I hope that is clear and short enough! Good luck and don't hesistate to ask more questions here. Again, I admire you for taking the huge step of aquiring an instant family!


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

it is rare, but it is also possible he is already retractible.

But I would still say don't worry about cleaning it. Not unless he has a major poopy blow out, and then still jsut the tip.

He will be able to clean it on his own when he takes bathes and you are able to tell him he can pull it bakc on his own. You dont want to cause any damage to that ridged band if it isnt needed.

The rule of thumb for intact penis's is that the only one who should ever retract it, is the boy himself

Thank you so much for taking the time to look into this. And remember there are still alot of uneducated doctors out there that will tell you it is best.

only like 20% of the worlds population is circumcized, and of that 20% 80% of it is in USA. that means 4% of the worlds population outside of america is circumcized and the majority of that is for religious reasons.

You are making the right choice, and the other areas of this board will have mammas just as helpful. It sounds like the children will be in good hands, especially if you are willing to do the research on your own.


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## calngavinsmom (Feb 19, 2003)

Wow Momma! I am so in awe of you shouldering this responsibility, you are amazing. I am also glad you decided against circumcision for your nephew. Leaving a boy intact really isn't the big deal some people make it out to be, they are either speaking out of ignorance(social conditioning) or are trying to justify what they chose for thier own childern. Here is a wonderful pamphlet on intact care:
http://www.nocirc.org/publish/4pam.pdf
Also there is a TON of information in the sticky at the top of the forum "Web Resources"

And I also wanted to let you know that we are here for you(most of us don't bite....honest!







)

Good luck and if you need any support, feel free to ask!

take care,
Tara


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## DoulaClara (Jan 3, 2006)

KHalton,







I just wanted to say that you rock for doing all of this, and I mean *ALL* of this! Taking on unfamiliar territories, and researching them! I come to these boards occasionally to collect info (Yoshua is so helpful) to keep passing onto my husband (we're still not on the same page about circumcision) and couldn't pass this up without giving you a giant over-the-net hug and keep it up!

Clara


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## njeb (Sep 10, 2002)

You've already been given lots of good advice, so I'm just going to give you a







.

My deepest sympathy on the loss of your sister.









How lucky your nieces and nephew are to have you as an aunt! I like how you are researching everything before making decisions.







Good for you for doing so!


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## DQMama (Mar 21, 2006)

I just wanted to say, you are already a great mama! I am so sorry for the loss of your sister. I grew up close to a cousin and she is an addict. I would be very sad if anything happened to her despite the fact that we are no longer close.

Any mother who questions what is right or wrong rather than blindly stumbling along has a leg up on a lot of people.

I did circ my son but didn't know better and now I regret it. Future sons (if there are any) will be intact.

Best of luck to you and please stick around.


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## Leiahs (Jul 29, 2005)

Welcome to MDC! I am so very sorry for the loss in your life, as well as your sister's kids' lives









I would just be repeating things if I tried to tell you why you shouldn't circ him (although it sounds like you've already decided not to, HOORAY!!!), but I did want to share one of my favorite links for information with you.

http://www.coloradonocirc.org/index.php
There is a link on the left with a fantastic list of pamphlets, etc. with good information!

Best wishes for your journey into motherhood. You are a wonderful person to be willing to completely change your life for these children!


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## frenchie (Mar 21, 2006)

You have recieved loads of great advice...so there isn't much I can add. I did want to say...welcome to motherhood, and MDC!!! You are a wonderful woman (I'm assuming you're a woman) to take on such a large responsibility.
You will have many trying times, there is so much for you to learn. Parenting is a daily lesson for all of us!! Be patient and know that you can come to MDC anytime to get the advice you need....this place is like the largest child information library on earth. Anything you need to know, you can find it here. If you need support...you can find it here too! Welcome!


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## jessjgh1 (Nov 4, 2004)

You've already gotten so many resources.... I'm not going to add anything to that.

Thanks for coming here and asking question-- it is a great place!
Hugs to you for all that you are going through.

Please let us know if you have questions... If you ever feel like coming back and giving an update... that would be awesome.

Also, if you ever feel ready to tackle the horrible misinformation given to you by the social worker, we will help. I am disgusted that s/he woudl push circumcision on a 2 year old so early after a tragedy. Not only is it unnecessary (after all he's made if for 2 years with the foreskin) but doing a circ on a 2 year old usually requires general anesthesia- not to be taken lightly.

Hugs, hugs and more hugs to you and your new family.

Jessica


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

My 2-year-old son is retractible. He did it all on his own, but it still doesn't really need to be retracted to keep it clean. It's easier now that he's pottying on the toilet instead of a diaper.
The awesome thing about intact baby boys is that they don't need any special care except protection from forcible retraction before they're ready!
I really hope you're finding all the support and information you need on here. Don't hesitate to ask if there's anything else we can do!


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## coloradoalice (Oct 12, 2005)

Wow! I just want to say how impressed I am that you are doing such detailed research after such a traumatic situation. I'm glad you have already come to the conclusion you won't circumcise your nephew. You have given him a great gift.

I am so sorry to hear of your sisters death. You're life must be completely upside down right now, I can only imagine.

I can tell though, those kids are lucky to have you there to help them through this time.

I hope you find MDC as a good source of information and support.


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## Islay (Apr 29, 2006)

Welcome to this forum! As I'm sure you have discovered, it is perhaps the most friendly, informative and valuable website of its kind on the Internet.

You have received a wealth of good advice from a whole bunch of loving, caring folk. Please return here as often as you're able and let us know how your new life is progressing... I admire you.
__________________________

Yoshua, it's good to see another man promoting the huge benefits of the foreskin. I have read your many posts with pleasure.

Just one point I must pick up on: cleaning once retractable. It is not strictly necessary to retract and clean at any time. You yourself have acknowledged the self-cleansing nature of the glans/foreskin combination. And smegma is not only a guard against infection, it also cleanses. (Gk _smègma_ detergent). Personally, I _did_ wash after masturbation but I never _fully_ retracted my foreskin until I first had penetrative sex - and even then it wasn't a manual retraction; it was part of the natural rolling action of the foreskin during sexual intercourse. However, after that I habitually retracted and washed, following sex, for obvious reasons.

Whether bathing or showering, a penis needs no more attention than the rest of our body. Some may choose to retract and wash; but it's a choice, not a necessity.

Christopher


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Christopher, it's really nice to have your input on this forum, and your presence here is extremely valued. I just wanted you to know that.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

You have already gotten great advice, and I'm happy to hear that you have decided to leave your nephew intact. I just wanted to say I'm so sorry for your and the childrens loss and that you are an incredible person to take in her children.

Good luck to you and I hope to see you around the forums.


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## kalisis (Jan 10, 2005)

I also just wanted to chime in and say I am so sorry for your loss and I applaud your courage in undertaking not just the challenge of raising your four young nieces and nephews, but also for taking the time to do research on it. They're really super lucky to have you in their lives.


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## wendy1221 (Feb 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KHalton*
As far as cleaning him goes, he doesn't object at all when I pull it back. There is no blood and it doesn't look inflamed or anything. It comes back easily and then I put it back where it started and that's that. I shouldn't do that? Should I ever clean it?

If he is retractable, just taking a bath is enough to keep it clean. My 2 year old is fully retractable (was never forcibly retracted) and is able to pull the skin back himself in the bath tub. It's fun and games to him, not a necessary chore. He learned from watching my 7yo. We do remind them to "swish their pee pees" when they're in the tub, and like I said, it's great fun. We do it to get them in the habit young, not because it is necessary right now. Cleanliness is not an issue w/ the intact penis until puberty. If you scrubbed out a girl's vagina everytime you changed her diaper, she'd be at risk for infection, bacterial and/or yeast. Same with boys. Taking a bath is all that's necessary. You may need to partially retract after a messy poop if any gets up in there, but that doesn't happen often.

Kudos to you for taking these kids in and taking the time to research what's best for them! And (((HUGS))) My little sister died 2.5 years ago after mixing drugs and alcohol. I hadn't been close to her in years, b/c of her lifestyle. I know how hard it is. You always have this hope that they'll grow up and shape up and suddenly they're gone and all that hope and potential with them.









As for carseats, this is a GREAT site who will give you all the info you need. http://www.car-seat.org/forumdisplay.php?f=2


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## 4chunut1 (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wendy1221*
If he is retractable, just taking a bath is enough to keep it clean. My 2 year old is fully retractable (was never forcibly retracted) and is able to pull the skin back himself in the bath tub. It's fun and games to him, not a necessary chore. He learned from watching my 7yo. We do remind them to "swish their pee pees" when they're in the tub, and like I said, it's great fun. We do it to get them in the habit young, not because it is necessary right now. Cleanliness is not an issue w/ the intact penis until puberty.

Very good advice..! From personal experience, that was the way I was taught to wash (but mom also included "wash your ears"). I have been retractible as long as I can remember, and washing in the tub was a pleasurable experience. If your nephew is retractible now, he will be doing it on his own soon enough, as he will find out that it does feel good. Not really necessary for you to do it for him for that purpose.


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## trmpetplaya (May 30, 2005)

's and







for taking on this responsibility! You have already received so many good responses (I also apologise for the insensitive remarks you received...) and I just wanted to add that my husband is intact and has never had any problems. Both he and I are very grateful to my MIL for protecting him from being circumcised









When I was 11 my little brother was born and my mom told me that all baby boys had to be circumcised. That's all I knew about it for a few years. My best friend told me that her brother was intact and that it wasn't necessary. I really didn't think anything of it again till I met my husband (in high school) and he told me that he was not circumcised. He has never had any hygiene problems or infections. I am perfectly satisfied









Thank you for coming here and asking questions before deciding to circumcise your nephew! You are doing the right thing and we're here for you if you ever have any more questions or concerns









love and peace.


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## Revamp (May 12, 2006)

Thank you KH.

I am so sorry for your and their loss but at least it is clear that you are going to make a great mother to those children.


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## ShaggyDaddy (Jul 5, 2006)

I am 26 and was circed against my will at birth (with complications), father to a perfect intact boy. Please don't circ your boys. There is no reason for it.

There are plenty of resources on here to help explain why, but I just think the more circed dads with intact babies speak up, the stronger our case is the closer we are to breaking the cycle of violence.


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## Past_VNE (Dec 13, 2003)

ShaggyDaddy, WELCOME to MDC!!!! See my siggie.


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## Islay (Apr 29, 2006)

Lydia, thank you for your kind remarks. It's a pleasure just to be here and contribute to our common cause.









Christopher


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## emcare (Sep 11, 2005)

I just wanted to write to say that your posts on this topic have brought tears to my eyes. It is an amazing thing that you are doing for these kids. They are all so lucky to have you, especially that little boy who will grow up whole because of the time you took to look into circ.

You, your kids and the rest of your family are in my prayers--I'm sending good vibes--thinking of you, etc.

Please stick around on these boards. It is an amazing place full of kind folks willing to help.

Again, I am so sorry for your loss.


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## Stevie (Jun 20, 2004)

I too am very sorry for your loss and I applaud you









I think you are very fortunate to have fallen into this particular site







Take your time and get all the information you need about all the parenting choices you are looking at and feel free to ask questions as you go.


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## gabysmom617 (Nov 26, 2005)

Quote:

I've been pulling back the skin to clean it when I change his diaper because the social worker told me to. That's wrong too?
I'm so sorry for your loss. Just got here and haven't read through all the responses yet, don't know if anyone has addressed this question for you yet..

The absolute best thing to do is to leave it alone and wash it just like a finger. The forskin is fused, and does not become retractible until the child is much older, possibly maybe even until puberty or beyond, all of which is perfectly normal. The only person who should be pulling the foreskin back is the child himself, for he will know when he is ready to do this, and no one else (including doctors. Period.) He and only he will know when he is retractible.

Don't worry about it being clean enough. The foreskin is self cleaning, just like a the vagina is self cleaning. Just like you don't need to give a 2 year old girl a douche (or any woman for that matter...) you don't need to pull the skin back and clean it.

Just leave it alone, wash it like a finger when you bathe him, and all will be well, and don't let anyone tell you any differently.

So sorry for your time of loss...


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## Susuhound (Jul 5, 2006)

i'm so sorry to hear of your loss. I'm adding my admiration to everyone else. You are doing a wonderful thing for those children and they will be grateful to you forever.
FWIW in this country circ is uncommon these days, my DH is intact.And boys don't have any problems. I have been a paediatric nurse for many years and have never had cause to retract a foreskin, actually I've only seen a couple of infants who had been circumcised (it's not 'routine' and is actively advised against by the Aust Paed Ass) of course it's possible to have it done, and some parents still insist. Anyhow...No special treatment is needed. Nothing will happen to it if you just leave it alone. If there is some poo visible when changing a diaper just wipe it away gently, and the bath will take care of the rest.
Good luck.


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## hakunangovi (Feb 15, 2002)

KHalton - Welcome. I am so sorry for your loss. I would echo everyone elses comments. You are a wonderful person for taking on your sister's family.

I am particularly impressed that in the midst of all the chaos you are researching issues like circumcision. Your nephew will be most grateful that you kept him whole. Circumcising my brothers and I was the single biggest mistake my mother made. God bless her - I know she thought she was doing the right thing - Unfortunately she had been misinformed. Just as the social worker you were dealing with. However, in this day and age, with the internet etc there is not much excuse any more.


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## irinam (Oct 27, 2004)

Bravo KH and thank you from the bottom of my heart !

Welcome to the boards - there is a wealth of information here, on MANY topics.

Lots of great info here, just wanted to chime in that as a mother of intact boy (ahem, I mean young man) - I/he never had any issues with cleaning or retracting prematurely. Mostly because I was not *mis*informed and out of ignorance just left it alone. This was "ignorance is a bliss" type of thing.

And as a wife of an intact man, how should I phrase it... lets just say - no disappointments there









You are doing right by your boys. Way to go mama


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