# RF till....?



## Smalls181 (May 12, 2006)

Hypothetically, is there an age when you would feel comfortable turning a child FF, even though they could still RF?

I ask this because if my DD follows her current growth curve, she could still be RF at 5. Would you have your 5 year old RF?

Right now, I am thinking about turning her at 4.

Is there any statistics or studies that say RF is "safe" at any certain age?


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## LizaBear (Feb 1, 2003)

Yes, if my 5-yr old could still RF, then my 5-yr old WOULD still RF.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Have you seen crash test videos? Ideally, we'd all be RF.


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## Pumpkin_Pie (Oct 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Smalls181* 
Hypothetically, is there an age when you would feel comfortable turning a child FF, even though they could still RF?

Nope

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Smalls181* 
I ask this because if my DD follows her current growth curve, she could still be RF at 5. Would you have your 5 year old RF?

Yep

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Smalls181* 
Right now, I am thinking about turning her at 4.

Is there any statistics or studies that say RF is "safe" at any certain age?

I am pretty sure there are not any reliable ones that say that.

My son is pretty skinny and, honestly, I am hoping he stays that way so he can RF until 5 as well. You are fortunate that you can keep your daughter RF'ing. Why risk it?


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## alysmommy2004 (Jun 23, 2006)

I would LOVE if my kids could RF that long! I was trying DD out in some of the new larger convertibles and she could RF til five if she were just a few lbs lighter. As it is I'm stressing over my DS turning two next week and being AT the weight limit on his seat.

Here is one study I know of about ERFing. It has some pretty good info.
http://fcs.tamu.edu/safety/passenger...ar-facing2.pdf


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

I told Evan he could go ffing on his 4th birthday, but he's 32# now. He has his tonsils out in August and has gained 4# since then!







: He probably would've gone ffing no matter what though b/c of the new baby.

There's no real studies out there about when it's safe to ff. The studies show it's WAY safer before 2, but no studies have been done after 2 b/c so few people go past that it's hard to get data when they crash etc. It's know that kids' spines don't fully fuse till like 6 or so and that the older they get the harder their bones get so it would make sense that rfing till 4 and 5 years is safer than turning at 2.


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## alysmommy2004 (Jun 23, 2006)

Ah, here's the one I was originally looking for (easier to read than the other one I posted, but a lot longer). This one proves that RFing is safer to age 4.

http://www.anec.eu/attachments/ANEC-...8-TRAF-003.pdf


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Hard question. My first reaction is that if they can safely rf still, then they rf.

BUT... perhaps.... *IF* (and only if) the child seemed truly uncomfortable rf... and was 4.5 or 5yrs old, I'd turn them.

Dd was fine rf until 3.5 (when she hit the weight of her seat) and I was okay turning her rather than buying a new seat.... With the current higher weights I still would have had to turn her at 4.

-Angela


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## 3boys3girls (Apr 18, 2008)

yes, i'd keep her RF as long as possible.


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## Erica09M (Jul 28, 2008)

I plan to RF as long as possible. My current seat only rear-faces to 30 pounds, so we may be replacing it in a couple of years for one that will allow me to RF my child longer. She's only 5 months old right now, and 15 pounds, so we have a while before we have to worry about it. I'd like to make it AT LEAST to 2 years, which I highly doubt that we'll reach 30 pounds before then. My 3 1/2 year old is just now 32 pounds.

I wish I would have known more about car seat safety when my 3 year old was an infant. But, I've since learned... and I'm very thankful for the information I've come across.


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## amandaleigh37 (Jul 13, 2006)

I'd keep my child RF as long as possible. Yes, even at 4 or 5. I think I would consider turning them around sooner if they were just absolutely uncomfortable that way. But I'd still try to keep them RF as long as I could.


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## DadatoKatie (Nov 8, 2008)

I'm more concerned with my DD's head to body weight. If she keeps following her growth curve, her weight will still be under limits at 5yrs, and possibly 6yrs.

Her head has always consistently been at the 75-80th percentile. Her weight is usually between 3-5th percentile. That's WAAAAY too much of a difference for me to be comfortable with her forward facing before she hits the weight limit.

She's one of the few children who will probably outgrow by height before weight.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

If it's a convertible seat and rf to only 30lbs it's probably getting close to the expiration date. Make sure you note when that is.

-Angela


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## tbone (Dec 17, 2006)

I turned Ds around just last month at 4.4 yrs. He is still not quite 33 lbs but fully clothed and with full tummy he is sometimes at 32lbs. I feel a little uneasy about pushing it to the limit. If I had one of the carseats that rf to 35 lbs though, I would definately keep him rf.


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## bobandjess99 (Aug 1, 2005)

Ds is pretty tiny..if his curve continues, he will be 5ish before hitting 35 pounds, and frankly, in the tech world, we expect 40 lb Rfing seats to be on the market soon(within a year or two).....we're just waiting on governtmental go ahead on getting an "official" 40 lb dummy to test with. So really, ds could be 5-6 before needing to rf because he has outgrown his seat.

for everyday use, i'd probably stay RFing for quite some time.....for occasional use like in grammas car, etc, i woudl probably be okay with Ffing by 3-4.


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## Cinder (Feb 4, 2003)

I turned my daughter around at 3 1/2, she could of still been rear facing, but her little brother had been turned around a month before that, and she was jealous. Now at 6 and 45" there is no way she could still be rearfacing, but I'm not sure when she would of had to turn around...probably just after 5, at 5 she was 29lbs and 39".


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## sunnymw (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
If it's a convertible seat and rf to only 30lbs it's probably getting close to the expiration date. Make sure you note when that is.

-Angela

It's probably a Comfortsport, which of course are still being made







of course if you've got a CS, make sure to watch for it being outgrown by height (they need at least 1" of hard shell above their heads). And the top slots are NOT reinforced for rear-facing









I plan on RFing to the limits of the seat in my car but would be OK with rare occasional FFing at age 3-4ish. He will outgrow it by height before weight--or at least make it to age six


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnymw* 
It's probably a Comfortsport, which of course are still being made







of course if you've got a CS, make sure to watch for it being outgrown by height (they need at least 1" of hard shell above their heads). And the top slots are NOT reinforced for rear-facing










Ah, thanks. I didn't think there were any 30lb rf limit convertible seats still on the market.

-Angela


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## bobandjess99 (Aug 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Ah, thanks. I didn't think there were any 30lb rf limit convertible seats still on the market.

-Angela

Oh no, the Crappysport still lingers on to spread misery and loathing to all it sees..........stupid awful seat. I'm not prejudiced. not at all.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bobandjess99* 
Oh no, the Crappysport still lingers on to spread misery and loathing to all it sees..........stupid awful seat. I'm not prejudiced. not at all.



















gosh I wish they'd raise standards...

-Angela


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## sunnymw (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 









gosh I wish they'd raise standards...

-Angela

Apparently it "fills a niche"... of what, I don't know.







. Now that they have the Snugride32 coming out (which RFs LONGER than their only convertible and it's an INFANT seat!) maybe sales will drop because people will do SR32 and then Nautilus









I have a CS...







My 2yo is a shrimp and on his way to outgrowing it...


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

Evenflo still has seats out that only rf to 30#.


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## bobandjess99 (Aug 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thepeach80* 
Evenflo still has seats out that only rf to 30#.

the tribute, right? or somethign else?


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

Yeah, plus the told Triumphs and Titans and their other seats. I think they've decreased what convertibles they've been making latey.


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bobandjess99* 
Ds is pretty tiny..if his curve continues, he will be 5ish before hitting 35 pounds, and frankly, in the tech world, we expect 40 lb Rfing seats to be on the market soon(within a year or two).....we're just waiting on governtmental go ahead on getting an "official" 40 lb dummy to test with.

Oooh...cool! That is good news for us; the Marathon in our car is expiring on April 21, 2010, which is the day before DS2's 2nd birthday. By that time, maybe we can get a 40-lb rear-facing seat for him, and keep him RF until he's 5 or so ;-).

And my understanding is that the information that RF is safer was first discovered from bus and train crashes where some passengers were RF... so there's no age at which RF loses a safety advantage, just safety limits on the seats themselves.


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## Smalls181 (May 12, 2006)

Okay.. thanks for the thoughts. I wish we had more statistics on the safety of FF vs RF. Kind of like the stats that RF before 2 is 75% safer.

I do plan on keeping her RF for as long as possible. We are most likely getting the True Fit in the spring for the added shell height.

I know how fortunate I am to have a tiny girl that can still RF to 4 or 5 years old. I have a friend who's DD is 20 months and 35lbs.







She is scared to take her in the car! I would be, too.


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## Smalls181 (May 12, 2006)

Oh, and one more thing. A friend just gave away her back up Nautilus to a woman who had her 3 year old son in a TABLE booster seat (yes, the ones designed for a kitchen table, NOT a car.) She installed it correctly, showed the mom how to use it. And then a week later, they got in a severe car accident. It was a side impact roll over and the mom, last I heard, was in critical condition. The little boy, however, had very minor injuries, nothing broken, and was released the following the day.

I know anecdotes are not evidence, but it does make me think that FF after 3 must be somewhat safe, because this kid survived a horrible crash with very little injuries. Its not very often that we hear positive outcomes from car crashes. We usually only hear about the kids who improperly restrained and died *because* of that. (Of course, we can only speculate on whether they would have lived or not if something else had been done.)

I think that story is what got me thinking about turning DD around 4. Of course with me, if I did turn her while she could still RF, and something happened to her, I could never forgive myself.


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

No matter rfing or ffing (after mins are met), the most important thing is to have your seat in correctly and use it correctly. That is going to help a LOT! I know a mom whose 3yo and 5yo are in backless boosters and they recently got in a rollover and the kids are fine, so backless boosters must be the way to go.







She's replacing their seats w/ the same ones they had. It's great they're o.k., but IMO they are the exception not the norm.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Smalls181* 
Okay.. thanks for the thoughts. I wish we had more statistics on the safety of FF vs RF. Kind of like the stats that RF before 2 is 75% safer.

Actually the statistic is that RF is 500% safer than FF, period.


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## MacKinnon (Jun 15, 2004)

At four or five, I would respect my child's wishes. If they were really uncomfortable rear facing, or simply just didn't like it, I would turn them around. Prior to 2, I feel that it is critical that they stay rear facing, beyond that is great, and definitely safer, and I definitely advocate for children to stay rear facing as long as possible, but I would turn them at four if they wanted to be turned.


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## haleyelianasmom (Nov 5, 2005)

My daughter is pretty tiny, but I doubt she'll make it to age 5 RF. We have a Britax Boulevard, but it goes to 33 pounds and looking at the growth chart, she'll probably hit that weight sometime after she turns 4. However, she generally outgrows the height first, so we'll see. I guess I'd just take it one day at a time and see when the risks outweigh the benefits.


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## Smalls181 (May 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
Actually the statistic is that RF is 500% safer than FF, period.

link, please?


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

I'd have to look, I think it comes from the last CHOP study, it was like 530% safer.


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## Smalls181 (May 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thepeach80* 
I'd have to look, I think it comes from the last CHOP study, it was like 530% safer.

Really?! Wow! I would love to read more about that.

I do not discredit ERF in the least. I love it. I advocate for it all of the time, whenever I can. But any piece of literature I can get my hands on that will reinforce its safety is just one more thing I can take to parents to convince them.

Unfortunately, what seems to work best is real life stories of children who were hurt or killed. It is such a shame that it takes an innocent childs life to convince other parents to protect theirs....


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

It was the ANEC study as well as the standardized SafeKids curriculum.


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## Pumpkin_Pie (Oct 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
It was the ANEC study as well as the standardized SafeKids curriculum.

WOW! That is some serious food for thought. Thanks so much for posting this here. I have so many questions now, but I think I will start a completely separate thread for them.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pumpkin_Pie* 
WOW! That is some serious food for thought. Thanks so much for posting this here. I have so many questions now, but I think I will start a completely separate thread for them.

No problem







Please do!!


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
Actually the statistic is that RF is 500% safer than FF, period.

Unless you're the driver. Then it's much safer to forward face and avoid an accident in the first place.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 
Unless you're the driver. Then it's much safer to forward face and avoid an accident in the first place.









That's true lol. If we could drive RF'ing, it would be safer for the driver too though


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