# Doctor said I need to let my 6mo CIO!!



## jenners26 (Mar 16, 2008)

We took DS to the pedi today because he woke up from him nap with some blood in his ear canal. He hasn't been sleeping AT ALL the last few nights, so we wanted to rule out a ruptured ear drum. My pedi is out on maternity leave, so we saw the first available doctor.

It turns out his ears are fine, (he scratched himself deeper in his ear than we could see) but after the dr. got done looking at his ears he said, "Well...these babies learn real quick that if they scream long enough and loud enough, someone will come and rescue them. You just need to put him down and let him go for awhile. He'll learn that bedtime is for sleeping."

After he said that, I said, "Yeah...that will NEVER happen at our house. That pretty much goes against every single instinct I have as a mother. If there's no medical reason for him not sleeping, I think we're done here."

He tried to reitterate it again, saying that babies learn early to manipulate us to do what they want. uke

AAGGHHH!!! How is it that these "professionals" are allowed to hand out such out-dated, out-of-touch advice with no repercussions? It's so maddening to me that I know he has given this same advice to some poor mother who trusts her doctor to give her good advice, and she has followed it.









I wish there was something I could do besides just finding another doctor.


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## miche28 (Sep 16, 2006)

Wow - if he's part of a practice, you could file a complaint with them?


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## Jaysfamily (Jun 5, 2008)

When that happens with us, I remind the medical provider that I'm paying them for medical care, and not for unsolicited parenting advice. I consider that on the same level of inappropriateness as a gyn giving unsolicited advice about foreplay.


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## Mulvah (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jaysfamily* 
When that happens with us, I remind the medical provider that I'm paying them for medical care, and not for unsolicited parenting advice. ***

Precisely. Some people are pro-CIO and that is their prerogative as well. Either way, that type of advice is not meant for that type of visit, unless you ask.


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## gabysmom617 (Nov 26, 2005)

I'd like to know, how does allowing babe to cry it out at night have anything whatsoever to do with what you took him in for, that is to say, some issues with his ears?

I mean, maybe I have pregnant brain, but how does that make any sense?

Lets say you took him in, and found that there was really something more serious going on with his ears. How would cio have helped with that other than prolonging how long could have taken you to figure out he was in pain or somesuch?

I mean, am I making any sense? Or am I just going crazy?







:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jenners26* 
We took DS to the pedi today because he woke up from him nap with some blood in his ear canal. He hasn't been sleeping AT ALL the last few nights, so we wanted to rule out a ruptured ear drum. My pedi is out on maternity leave, so we saw the first available doctor.

It turns out his ears are fine, (he scratched himself deeper in his ear than we could see) but after the dr. got done looking at his ears he said, "Well...these babies learn real quick that if they scream long enough and loud enough, someone will come and rescue them. You just need to put him down and let him go for awhile. He'll learn that bedtime is for sleeping."

After he said that, I said, "Yeah...that will NEVER happen at our house. That pretty much goes against every single instinct I have as a mother. If there's no medical reason for him not sleeping, I think we're done here."

He tried to reitterate it again, saying that babies learn early to manipulate us to do what they want. uke

AAGGHHH!!! How is it that these "professionals" are allowed to hand out such out-dated, out-of-touch advice with no repercussions? It's so maddening to me that I know he has given this same advice to some poor mother who trusts her doctor to give her good advice, and she has followed it.









I wish there was something I could do besides just finding another doctor.


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## lirpasirhc (Oct 26, 2007)

nak. i thought the dr was insinuating that the LO scratched himself on purpose to manipulate his parents into picking him up. op, i'm glad you told the dt that you would not be following his advice,


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## MaterPrimaePuellae (Oct 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lirpasirhc* 
i thought the dr was insinuating that the LO scratched himself on purpose to manipulate his parents into picking him up.

Well, obviously. You know how manipulative those selfish little babies are!

Op, I think your response was great.


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## tarajean56 (May 2, 2007)

Ugh. My doctor said this too. I was stupid enough to actually ask him if there was anything I could do to help DS sleep(who was a challenging sleeper till about 18 months). Won't make that mistake again. I probably should change peds, but I just choose to outright ignore everything they tell me parenting-wise. Not their job IMO.

Anyway, I'm glad you stood up to them and that you have the sense to trust yourself. What makes me more angry than peds spouting crappy parenting advice is when parents second guess themselves to follow "doctor's orders!"


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## textbookcase (May 31, 2007)

Oh, wow. Your response is great!


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## Alicia P (Aug 15, 2008)

Good for you!! If they do a good job w/ diagnosing and treating illnesses, stick with em, but request not to have that particular doc again, unless absolutly necessary..


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## gabysmom617 (Nov 26, 2005)

Ok yes, I definitely had pregnant brain. Somehow I missed the whole first paragraph. I was thinking you took him in because his ear was bleeding. Somehow I missed the part about him not sleeping well...So sorry bout that.







: (Thanks, little unborn wormy wart, for taking some of my IQ points while you're in there.)

In any case, what the dr. said was obviously still stupid.


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## azariahsmom (Aug 12, 2008)

I can understand letting baby cry when he is frustrated, but not letting him cry for hours, possibly not sleeping at all, just to teach him to sleep on his own!


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## jenners26 (Mar 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gabysmom617* 
Ok yes, I definitely had pregnant brain. Somehow I missed the whole first paragraph. I was thinking you took him in because his ear was bleeding. Somehow I missed the part about him not sleeping well...So sorry bout that.







: (Thanks, little unborn wormy wart, for taking some of my IQ points while you're in there.)

In any case, what the dr. said was obviously still stupid.

I reread what I wrote, and I don't think I was very clear in my first paragraph....sorry about that!

We took him to the doctor because we had suspected that there was something wrong with his ears for a couple of days because he had been sleeping REALLY badly. Anytime we would lay him down he would just scream like crazy. Then, after he woke up from his nap with blood in his ear, we decided to take him in because we were concerned his ear drum may have ruptured.

The doctor offered the "advice" that he did because we had mentioned DS's lack of sleep and the screaming he'd been doing when we laid him down, when we were explaining why we brought him in to be seen.

Does that make sense?


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## gabysmom617 (Nov 26, 2005)

Yeah that makes sense!







Actually your first post made sense after I unscrewed my eyes, cleaned them off, and put them back into my head.







: I've not been "myself" lately.

I always remember: doctors are there for medical advice only. He looked in his ears, found the problem, and that should be it. Some drs feel that it's ok to just put there little opinions and parental advice in there. I always just take the medical stuff and leave the rest.


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## Turquesa (May 30, 2007)

: Doctors are medical experts, not parenting experts. They should not be telling patients how to parent. That is outside of their scope of practice.

I've gotten in heaps of trouble for this opinion







: but . . . there you have it!


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## NZmumof2 (Jun 22, 2006)

First up, I'm a parent and a doctor. I would not be telling you to practice CIO and I totally disagree with what this doctor did. But I also disagree with the concept that subsequent posters have brought up, that doctors cannot provide parenting advice bacause it is outside their scope of practice.

I work in NZ and am a family physician. In my practice that means I care for the whole family, from kid with bleeding ear, to sleep deprived parents. If I was writing notes on this consultation I'd write that the presenting complaints were BOTH bleeding ear and difficulty sleeping. I would then continue the consultation on both these issues. At least a third of consults I have regarding infants would be about sleep.

At medical school and in family practice training we studied infant development, sleep patterns, parenting practices, because a holistic approach to a family is not merely checking the physical health of a child, but enquiring about all other aspects of their wellbeing.

Generally my main sleep advice, having excluded pain / illness / hunger... is to reassure parents that this will pass, to remind them to take care of themselves while they are being woken frequently, to consider cosleeping as appropriate... Not rocket science, but IMO well within the realms of medicine.

Just trying to point out that doctors can offer advice in this way also. Obviously the one mentioned above was uninformed which infuriates me because it makes some people think all docs are bad. The reality is just that, like most of the developed world, these docs have lost touch with attached parenting.


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## MyBoysBlue (Apr 27, 2007)

If the doc is offering good sound advice backed up by research and not just their opinion then Yes I would accept it and after I have done my own research I might just implement it if it is sound. But I would get better advice from a stranger on the street than any doctor I have met. Maybe I just have met the wrong ones.

Fortunately my family has been so healthy that I haven't had to meet very many.


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## hipmummy (May 25, 2007)

Tell him he is wromg and don't listen. Doctors are not right about parenmting and they are only sometimes right about medicine. Tell him to keep his opinions to himself and that the room is statting to stink.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jenners26* 
We took DS to the pedi today because he woke up from him nap with some blood in his ear canal. He hasn't been sleeping AT ALL the last few nights, so we wanted to rule out a ruptured ear drum. My pedi is out on maternity leave, so we saw the first available doctor.

It turns out his ears are fine, (he scratched himself deeper in his ear than we could see) but after the dr. got done looking at his ears he said, "Well...these babies learn real quick that if they scream long enough and loud enough, someone will come and rescue them. You just need to put him down and let him go for awhile. He'll learn that bedtime is for sleeping."

After he said that, I said, "Yeah...that will NEVER happen at our house. That pretty much goes against every single instinct I have as a mother. If there's no medical reason for him not sleeping, I think we're done here."

He tried to reitterate it again, saying that babies learn early to manipulate us to do what they want. uke

AAGGHHH!!! How is it that these "professionals" are allowed to hand out such out-dated, out-of-touch advice with no repercussions? It's so maddening to me that I know he has given this same advice to some poor mother who trusts her doctor to give her good advice, and she has followed it.









I wish there was something I could do besides just finding another doctor.


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## Turquesa (May 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NZmumof2* 
Just trying to point out that doctors can offer advice in this way also. Obviously the one mentioned above was uninformed which infuriates me because it makes some people think all docs are bad. The reality is just that, like most of the developed world, these docs have lost touch with attached parenting.

It is a rare occasion when I'm "jumped on" by an MDC poster. And I've never felt compelled to respond. Until now. And it is beyond me why I'm being singled out from everybody else in this thread who agrees with me.

I cannot speak for the situation in New Zealand, but pediatric guru William Sears insists in his famous "Baby Book" that (at least in the U.S.) doctors "are trained in the diagnosis and treatment of illness, not in parenting styles."

If the OP's doctor had been as off-base in his medical advise as he was with his parenting advice, he'd have lost his license a long time ago.

If his med school was teaching parenting, it certainly wasn't evidence-based. In fact, most parenting is based on cultural norms and personal experience. It's funny how quickly "parenting advice" can turn into merely imposing one's values and beliefs on somebody.

Look, I'm sorry for coming across so harshly.







This is a tender issue for me, (and apparently numerous other posters), because if I hear one more doctor lecture me about bedsharing or how I shouldn't still be BF'ing my 17-mo-old . . .









If you're truly trained to give advice, and your patients are truly receptive to it, then keep it up. But please be sensitive and make sure it's solicited and wanted. I trust that you are.


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## Deir (Aug 19, 2005)

That was a really good reply you gave him!


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## jenners26 (Mar 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deir* 
That was a really good reply you gave him!









I actually heard another MDC user point it out before, and I just happened to remember it in the heat of the moment, so I can't totally take credit for it!

As far as the advice goes, I guess I'd be okay with it, if I could say, "That's not going to work for us," and then he was willing to offer some other advice. I understand we live in small town Iowa and most people here are mainstream. We're the "hippy freak" parents!!

Of course, this is the THIRD doctor we've seen in this practice. The first one we stopped seeing because she refused to listen when I said NOT to retract my son's foreskin ("Oh, he has hypospadias/chordee, it's not the same!"). The second doctor insisted that I MUST start solids at four months, or I was essentially starving my child and forcing him to live with reflux and if I didn't put him on rice cereal I would damage his esophogus. And now, this doctor was all insistant about CIO. AAGGGHHH!!!


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## NZmumof2 (Jun 22, 2006)

Turquesa, I'd have PM'ed you but you don't do those. Nothing aimed specifically at you at all - note I said "subsequent posters" in my post. Certainly I wanted to add my opinion rather than jump on anybody.

I think it is tragic that pedis are offering such bad parenting advice and think some of the activism USA MDC moms need to do would be about changing medical curricula in this area. Thing is that aside from pedis, there are few other places most parents check in to discuss parenting issues and if we are to encourage attached parenting then these docs need educating.

I appreciate that the OP got harmful parenting advice which disappoints me as a doc. I hope that all these MDC moms can start to advocate for change. OP I work in a conservative very small town and I'm the resident hippy freak as well as the doctor which makes for some very interesting dynamics!


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## ilovebabies (Jun 7, 2008)

I just wanted to say what others have already say OP and tell you what a great response you gave! Sometimes I just cannot think off the cuff like that and then get in the car and beat myself up because I should have said "this or that". I'm going to keep that one filed away in the back of my mind.


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## riomidwife (Sep 1, 2006)

kudos to you for asserting your mothering instincts!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jaysfamily* 
I remind the medical provider that I'm paying them for medical care, and not for unsolicited parenting advice.

agreed, but so many parents turn to their pediatricians for parenting advice, particularly in the days before all this online parenting connecting. for some folks, talking to their ped was/is their main source of parenting education. it is easy to see how their well-intended (but horrifying) advice-giving is natural to them.


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## Turquesa (May 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NZmumof2* 
Turquesa, I'd have PM'ed you but you don't do those. Nothing aimed specifically at you at all - note I said "subsequent posters" in my post. Certainly I wanted to add my opinion rather than jump on anybody.

I think it is tragic that pedis are offering such bad parenting advice and think some of the activism USA MDC moms need to do would be about changing medical curricula in this area. Thing is that aside from pedis, there are few other places most parents check in to discuss parenting issues and if we are to encourage attached parenting then these docs need educating.

I appreciate that the OP got harmful parenting advice which disappoints me as a doc. I hope that all these MDC moms can start to advocate for change. OP I work in a conservative very small town and I'm the resident hippy freak as well as the doctor which makes for some very interesting dynamics!

I read "the post above" (singular), and assumed that you were referring to mine, which was directly above. No worries! I apologize for any misunderstanding.









I believe that I'm not yet "senior" enough on MDC to received PMs.

I'll direct you to a Canadian study that discusses the inadequate training in many facets of parenting. The authors indicate that most parents want the advice, but again, I think it's important to make sure that individual patients are soliciting it. If the physicians in this study are so uncomfortable in this role, maybe they need to be hiring more social workers. (C'est moi!







)


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

The real problem is - doctors should not give out PARENTING advice at all...

they aren't trained in child psychology and development... they're trained in doctoring.

I wish they'd stop giving out heinous advice.


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## lanamommyphd07 (Feb 14, 2007)

There's bad advice even among the "highly trained" individuals. As a child psychologist, I have colleagues who regularly recommend CIO, overly controlling discipline methods, weaning at a year, you name it. Even though I parent in one way, sometimes I have to listen to the needs of my parents as to what I'd recommend for them. My way, sad to say, does not work for many others. If I recommended cosleeping to parents of a poor sleeper, for example, this would not be addressing the family's need if it was to have the kid sleep in a separate room. I personally would not do that, but I have to let parents parent in the way they see fit, while (of course) throwing in the "permissions" for people who want to try a gentler approach. It's hard to help every parent achieve what they would like with their children. Unfortunately most are not as highly evolved as MDC-types. Interestingly enough, in the last 100 or so kids I've done an intake on, only one was breastfed past 6 months. Sad, sad, sad.


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