# Can't take 3 year old out in public



## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

My almost 3 year old has become a total nightmare to take anywhere lately.

If I don't follow her "rules", she melts down to the point I have to leave the store. I have to bring DH with me so he can remove her from the situation because I cannot watch her and buy food at the same time. Last night we were at the store and I accidentally put the cereal on the belt. She started screaming that she wanted to do it so I grab the cereal to hand to her. But, I already had bananas in my hand so I set them on the belt to get the cereal. This time DD melted down so completely DH had to take her to the parking lot.

She is not cooperating ever, melting down all the time and generally being her stubborn, high-needs self. I am so mad at her and at myself for losing patience but I really cannot get anything done. I cannot grocery shop with her. I cannot buy her clothes. I cannot run into the post office. I am exhausted and want to cry.

Oh, and she isn't sleeping very well which might be some of the cause for our issues but since I usually shop when she sleeps, I can't buy groceries. She goes to school 3 days a week for 3 hours while I work and I am thinking about sending her all day 3 days a week so I can run errands and do all the other boring adult things I have to do.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I am really at the end of my rope.


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## 2Late2BCreative (Jul 3, 2002)

I wish I had something helpful to suggest....but I don't. I also have a three year old who is driving me nuts. I wouldnt' say he's high needs but he is certainly trying at times....and really trying lately.

Hugs to you. Hopefully some mama's will have some great suggestions.


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## bjorker (Jul 25, 2005)

Oh my .... [email protected]# I could have written this.
dd flipped out so bad when we were trying to leave the park last week. It's never easy, and she definitely does this often, but this was a level of tantrum that I have never seen before in my life. I do all the "right" things (generally) as far as I can tell. I mean, calmly talking her through everything... getting down on her level... trying to include her in making the decisions, etc, but she just FLIPS OUT as soon as I mention the possibility of leaving, or doing something else that she doesn't want to do. I do not see other people's children acting like this... ever. I don't know what else to do. I can hardly make dinner at night. She sticks to me like glue no matter what I do, and complains/demands for things constantly. I try to set her up with things to do, and she often won't do any of it. The tantrum in the park was complete chaos. I'm talking, rolling on the ground screaming and thrashing to the point that I couldn't even pick her up. Talking to her was pointless... she was too busy screaming and thrashing to listen to anything. I really just couldn't believe it. I finally got a firm enough grasp of her to walk with her back to the car, and she eventually calmed down sitting in the car with me, but my arm muscles hurt for a few days after that. She was fighting me so hard, and was just COMPLETELY out of it.

I can't grocery shop anymore, either. Anywhere "fun" we go (which I do as much as possible, because she craves the socialization) always ends in disaster. Even things at home... like I said, it's almost impossible to make dinner now. It usually takes me 2-3 hours, because I'm more busy keeping her happy than cooking. I'm so beyond exhausted and feeling like such a bad mama because my child seems so unhappy so much of the time... but I am not doing anything bad! I mean, I'm not perfect of course, and have been getting more angry lately (which I know doesn't help). But I try REALLY REALLY hard to do things calmly, and with respect, and all that. She just keeps getting worse and worse and I feel like I'm nearing the end of my rope. I'm about to enroll her in preschool because I was really thinking being around other kids would help, but after reading this, I'm kind of scared.









Anyway, sorry to ramble on so much in your thread, but this has just been killing me lately. WTH is with "the terrible twos"? Most of age two (until towards the end...) was so much easier than this. I'm sorry I don't have anything helpful to say. At least know that you're not alone?























Edit: I just looked at the pics of your dd in your signature, and our dds look a lot alike, too. Huh.


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## ms. pacman (May 4, 2004)

Just wanted to say that my 3.5 yr. old dd and I were having an extremely hard time. She didn't ever want to do anything, and everything we needed to do was a fight. Getting dressed, walking the dogs, going on errands, coming back home, everything. Well, after I totally lost my temper and she was screaming too, my dh came into the room and made a star chart, with a space for every transition. She gets a star for cooperating, and it has been a total 180 turnaround in the weeks since. She gets a small prize for a day with all stars. We have both been much happier. I think she had gotten into the habit of being disagreeable. Good luck!


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## Rasa (Jan 1, 2006)

Oh dear, I could have written much of the original post too...also have an almost 3 yo and I hear ya about not being able to shop, not getting dinner made, etc. I've heard from many of my peers with kiddos the same age that they all seem to be going through a rough time to a certain extent...much more emotional and learning to exercise those emotions in all new ways. My DD never had a tantrum until recently but I can actually watch her "try" to blow a gasket now--she's clearly seeing how loud she can get and it must feel good to blow off a little steam that way! It can be so hard to pre-empt these outbursts--the image you painted of putting the items on the belt at the grocery counter was priceless--we've been in that exact situation! Fortunately, my DD will usually go along with me if I give her a few of "her" items to put on the belt and leave them with her in the cart and I can get the rest, then she puts hers on...but I've been there grabbing the cereal box back too









I try not to fuel it by my reaction (which can be so difficult in public but even more important!) I try to take little breaks even when I'm doing something that requires my attention (dinner) to focus on her. I try to set her up before I'll be very busy with dinner, etc., with an activity or craft etc. or get her to help in whatever way she can. This all usually takes a LOT longer than it would otherwise. Trips out and about take SO much longer. For example, today I wanted to run to the grocery and maybe run another errand after. I realized that my errand would be at a place with a lot of distractions for her where it would be difficult to rush things along (to get the melting frozen groceries home, for example) so I decided to go a little out of my way to run the errand first and then do grocery last.

I don't know if it's true with your child but mine has about completely done away with the afternoon nap (nap-free!) which makes the afternoon and evening even more difficult because she's tired. I think I've already noticed her cumulative energy during the day increase...while she's tired she's not AS tired as she was when she started skipping her nap...so maybe it's a combination of age and fatigue but both will fade with age? Let's hope so!


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## peacenlove (Apr 1, 2003)

I can really relate to this as well. My daughter is also almost three and she can be very stubborn and also throws huge fits, screaming, kicking, on the ground, loud crying. It is challenging not to loose my mind sometimes. I came from a real yelling and hitting upbringing, I do not hit, but lately I have raised my voice more, and am just not as patient as I would like to be. I think it something about this age and the child's development and interactions with the world.

When my son was this age I remember him absolutely refusing to go into the bath, crying, screaming, and nothing had happened to make him afraid, nothing I could pinpoint, I think it was a control issue. I wanted him to do something, he didn't, or at least he wanted to be making the choice as to what he was doing. or feeling like he had a say in it.

For us what worked was giving him lots of warning when things were going to happen. "we are going to the store in ten minutes." then " what do we need to do to get ready to go? what shoes do you want to wear, what hat?"
and so on. "we will be leaving the park in five minutes/ two more slides"
Getting down at his level to talk to him. Acknowledging his feelings/ naming the feelings. " I know you feel frustrated/sad/angry, that is okay, we still need to get this done."

Distraction works well, give him his own project, craft, game and if all else fails, bribery. I think the star reward system can work, but we have never been that organised. More like, if you do this we can have more time for playing this game/ reading this book/ insert treat or reward here.

I am lucky that my husband is home early and can play with the kids while I make dinner so that is not an issue for us.

I think that three full days at school would be way to much for my three year old. My son was in three half days when he was four and really loved the social interaction. but I have to admit after kindergarten, five afternoons a week, we stared homeschooling and have never looked back so I'm biased about schooling.

Hang in there! I think that like you mentioned sleep can be a huge issue for many kids, and parents. Personally we co-sleep still and I have just started to try and wean my daughter. I am reading a good book that was recommended in another forum, called _the no cry sleep solution for toddlers and preschoolers_ by Elizabeth Pantley, and some of the idea's have really helped. My daughter's sleep has improved dramatically from just a few changes. Her tantrums have not disappeared, by a long run, but generally I think that what you wrote is so common, and trust me you are not alone in your frustrations. This too shall pass.


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## Way Up North (Sep 15, 2007)

Add me to the list! my dd is 2.5 and has been in this hyper-controlling mode for a month or more, though it is getting better except when she is tired or not feeling well.
As much as I try not to go head to head, when your toddler climbs into your bed and demands you sit up with one foot ont he floor the other under your knee and your arms held just so and don't look at her LOL it is kind of tough. She tries to control everything!
We have let her meltdown, that has been a saving grace. When these things arise at home, saying no if needed (ie if it is a genuine need, I ask her to rephrase it as a request LOL but if it is just controlling, or inconvenient whatever, I tell her 'no, I am not going to xyz because...) and letting her get the emotions out. After that she is usually much better and we can approach the situation again.
We have also taken to just leaving her be, rather than forcing her to comply (ie time to go downstairs for breakfast ~ I just say "I'm going down, come when your ready" ~ knowing I have to abide by that, then!) we just let her come at her own pace and it really helps. Now she will tell me "I am coming when I am ready" before I can say it!
In public, if she needs to lose it, we go there, same as at home. I have just let go of being embarrassed or angry since I know she isn't trying to be a jerk, she just really wants to work out all the variables.
It is tough, and exhausting. But we have see a great improvement when we stopped fearing the tantrum and started giving her more space and respecting our own need not to be bossed around!


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## ryleigh'smama (Aug 10, 2005)

First off, big HUGS to you. It is hard, three year olds are hard, they know so much and want to be in control of so much....but they are still little and not able to reason so well. That leads me to the second thing, I have a dd who turned three in February, and reading your post relieved me a lot....she's not the only one!! She has been having a hard couple of days, I think because we went out of town last weekend, which was fun but totally disrupting for her. I also use "bribes", such as "do you want to get your jammies on now and have three stories, or wait and have only two or one story". Or "If we leave the park now we will have time to make a smoothie when we go home, if we wait we won't have time before we have to start dinner". It helps most of the time, but sometimes not so much.


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## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

Sleepless in America might make a good read for you.


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## dflanag2 (Oct 4, 2005)

Well, looks like this thread is heavy on commiseration and not so much on what to do about it, and I am going to mostly add to the commiseration pile.

I am MISERABLE. DS is 3.5 and he drives me insane. It has been really bad since late January, and I can't wait for this phase to pass, let me tell you. He does all the control stuff previously mentioned. At this point I cannot go to the grocery store with DS (I also have DD 18 mos who is much easier to handle) I tried shopping today: went to one store looking for one item; they were sold out. I was ready to leave, but DS (refuses to sit safely in back of shopping cart with sister in the seat) started running thru the store and I lost track of him, then was called to the front by the store employee who found him.









Talked it over in the car, re-reviewed the rules (stay with mommy, ask before you go look at something, etc.) decided to give him a second chance, went to a second store to buy one item. Got the item, DS started lying on the ground in the aisle refusing to walk. Tried to be patient, etc. finally he ran off and AGAIN I was called on the loudspeaker to pick him up.
















We have multiple meltdowns every day. If his meal isn't prepared just right (or he changes his mind), he will throw the plate of food on the floor or across the table. We dropped out of a gymnastics class (that he took last fall and really enjoyed) because of the 30 minute meltdown that was occurring after class (in addition to laying on the floor doing nothing the entire class). Suddenly, for the first time ever, he is getting into all sorts of things in the house: dumping out spices from the spice rack, climbing up cabinets in the laundry room to access Daddy's tools, today he got a raw egg and hid it between the couch cushions.







(fortunately I noticed the open carton and retrieved the egg before it cracked and oozed all over the uphostery). He drools, he is clumsy and runs into things constantly, and his reasoning is nonexistent.

At this point, I am considering therapy. For myself because I am going insane.

It helps some to know that this is allllll developmental...I read _Your Three Year Old: Friend or Enemy_ and the author's main advice to mother is to basically turn your kid over to other people as much as possible (hire a nanny/mother's helper, etc.) because the 3.5 yo's goal is to develop 'autonomy from the mother.' Well, that isn't exactly easy or feasible. DH HAStaken him away for the weekend twice, which was a relief until they came back, and I do all shopping alone during the evening or weekend (which is exhausting, yes.) I am also doing a lot of extracurricular stuff to have something going on in my life that is at least somewhat enjoyable (exercise, volunteer work, etc.)

Other strategies include lots and lots of activity. DS is high energy and needs to be 'run'. Out days are definitely more difficult if he doesn't have this opportunity. Of course, I have to be sure the running area is well fenced, last week I almost called the police because he ran off into an underbrush area and I couldn't go in after him/catch up to him (running, slip-on shoes, carrying 30 lb DD)... Argh.

Also I try to turn Unauthorized activites into Authorized, Supervised activity: if he want's to 'cook' with the spices, well heck, then he's going to help me make dinner. If he wants to run through the woods, fine, but let's do it at the fenced park where I can keep him in sight. If he wants to play with the eggs, let's hardboil them and dye them for Easter, perfect timing!

The worse is when I plan fun stuff for us to do and it doesn't end up being enjoyable for anyone because of all this whining and crying and misery. I'm at the point where I have to work up the nerve to leave the house. (Will he run away? Will I find him again? Will he assault another kid? Will he lay on the ground and force me to carry him to the car? 40 lbs + 30 lb DD= 70 lbs plus whatever else I'm carrying)

Then I think, poor little guy, if it's this bad for me it must be even worse for him, struggling through all this and all confused as to why Mommy is all calm and patient most the time and suddenly freaking out ballistic for no apparent reason (it's not that his behavior changes, but that I finally get to the end of my rope and can't stand it anymore.)

Well, thanks for reading, this was cathartic to write. Hopefully it's enough to get me through tomorrow.

-dflanag2


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## sparkprincess (Sep 10, 2004)

Ahhh, I love MDC. I start getting panicky that I somehow managed to ruin my child...only to come here and find out he's perfectly normal and I'm in good company.









We are just taking it one day at a time here!!


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## mamamilkers (Nov 11, 2005)

There is hope! I was exactly like that at that age and I (mostly) grew out of it.
















to all of you.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

When my kids threw tantrums at the checkout line, I continued my shopping with the tantrumming child. I never had anybody available to take a child outside in the middle of food shopping (if I did, I would have left the child with that adult at home and gone shopping alone!)

You want to help? OK, I'll do my best to accomodate you. But once the child starts throwing a tantrum because I did something "wrong" well, tough! I'll finish up without your help while you cry in the shopping cart. I don't care how many people throw dirty looks my way, I don't give in to tantrums, and I don't try to reason with children who are yelling at me. I disengage and do it all myself.

Eventually, kids do "get it" but it takes a while. I never stopped taking my kids in public- all of them have had checkout line tantrums at one point or another, and I don't think I've ever stopped shopping in the middle because of a child's behavior (or if I did once or twice it wasn't something I made a habit of doing.) 3yos either sat in the cart or were on a harness- NEVER walking around next to me, free to run off. Or if I let them walk next to me, they'd be in the cart at the first sign of "unsafe not listening."

I don't know if these tips will work for every kid. But in general, I never felt the need to "not be seen in public" with toddlers who might scream or make a scene. I never took it personally.


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## clothdipemomof2boy (Nov 29, 2005)

I am glad I found this thread. I have something to ask. My 3.5 year old is what some might call bad... I dont feel this way i feel that he is just trying to express himself and has no words that can express it. Today he was jumping over mud puddles then decided he wanted to jump in it. I have to mention we were at my oldest sons preschool waiting for them to open. And of course other moms are there well there kids decided that they wanted to join in. Well I got the mean looks cause my son was the first to do it. Then he started to run off so I did have to run after him to keep from getting hit. I held him to make sure he was safe but to show him that he was in trouble but i dont want to spank him. The other moms just looked at me and said things like I would spank my child if he ever did that to me. His daddy would spank his butt if he were my child. My biggest issue is did I do right or should i have just left till it was time to open up and walked away with both kids and just talk with them till it was over. Or should i have just taken them home. I felt like I was bieng judged at that point and the parents looked at my oldest as if he was bieng just as bad and he didnt do anything yet...! Then of course he started playing spiderman the evil one and started screaming at everyone of course i made him stand next to us so that he would understand we dont do that at all since it was scaring the other kids. I dont feel i am a bad parent I just am frustrated since they seem to be able to control thier kids and mine look they run all over the place. I dont know what i am doing wrong can someone help.


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

I would really, heartily, recommend the above suggestion to read "Sleepless in America".

When my kids tantrum and get all out of whack when things don't follow their "rules" then I know I'm dealing with kids who are a) tired, b) hungry, c) have been put through too much errand running for one day, or d) coming down with something. I can generally sense when they are in a mood where tantrums will happen readily and I simply do not go shopping with them, even if that means we eat rice and beans that night, or I have to go to the store at 8 pm after hubby comes home.

I only have my two, so I don't know if it's "normal" to tantrum at any time of day under any circumstances. I just know that when I read these descriptions of behaviour my first reaction is they are tired...


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## sdm1024 (Sep 4, 2006)

but keep repeating..."this too shall pass".

Maybe for now,grocery shopping is a task that you or your DH need to accomplish without her, if it's causing you to feel stressed.

At home, maybe some imaginative play at the grocery store, so in a few months she's more prepared to tag along.

Maybe you're going shopping at a bad time for her? Too early or too late in the day? I won't take my children out in the late afternoon if I can avoid it - my 7 year old, sure but not the 5 and 2 year old, and definately not all three! It's just a bad time for all because they are all just done!

I really wish that I had a magic cure for you - my 2 year old is at the stage where getting into the carseat is a challenge. Either she doesn't want to do it, or she has to buckle the top part, and if I forget, it's the full arching of the back tantrum time! YAY! (sense the sarcasm there???)

When my child is tantruming, I find it therpeutic for me to talk "Oh, my you are really mad about _____________. I understand, but we need to be done with our shopping now." It might not stop the tantruming, but it keeps me somewhat sane!


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## LilyGrace (Jun 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lalaland42* 
If I don't follow her "rules", she melts down to the point I have to leave the store. I have to bring DH with me so he can remove her from the situation because I cannot watch her and buy food at the same time. Last night we were at the store and I accidentally put the cereal on the belt. She started screaming that she wanted to do it so I grab the cereal to hand to her. But, I already had bananas in my hand so I set them on the belt to get the cereal. This time DD melted down so completely DH had to take her to the parking lot.

I might be the mean one here, but why are you changing the universe to suit her? What's wrong with saying "the cereal is already on the belt. Would you like to put the next item on?" Where's _your_ backbone, mama?

Quote:

She is not cooperating ever, melting down all the time and generally being her stubborn, high-needs self. I am so mad at her and at myself for losing patience but I really cannot get anything done. I cannot grocery shop with her. I cannot buy her clothes. I cannot run into the post office. I am exhausted and want to cry.
I wouldn't be easy to live with either if I found I could demand more and more my way and people would scurry around to do it. There's absolutely nothing wrong with setting your standards and your expectations, and meeting dd halfway. Treat the fact that a tantrum would happen as a matter of course. You are not there to make the bad go away, you are there to help her deal with the bad. A HUGE difference that is so easy to forget when we let it get under our skin!

Quote:

Oh, and she isn't sleeping very well which might be some of the cause for our issues but since I usually shop when she sleeps, I can't buy groceries. She goes to school 3 days a week for 3 hours while I work and I am thinking about sending her all day 3 days a week so I can run errands and do all the other boring adult things I have to do.
This is probably the main cause. Sleepless in America is good, and so is the NCSS for toddlers/preschoolers.
If you have your dh at all available, take advantage of that! Go out alone to do the errands, see what you can do at night, too. A lot of post offices now have after hour self serve kiosks where you can mail packages, get your stamps, etc. See what's available online, too.
This will pass, but do everything possible to minimize tantrum times and make good use of the ones you do have in the meantime.


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## dflanag2 (Oct 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LilyGrace* 
I might be the mean one here, but why are you changing the universe to suit her? What's wrong with saying "the cereal is already on the belt. Would you like to put the next item on?" Where's _your_ backbone, mama?

I empathize with my DS because we are both perfectionists and I know what it feels like to look forward to doing something your own way. In this case, I would agree to handing the cereal back, but I would ask DS to request it back in a calmer tone and ask nicely instead of scream at me. I would model what I would like him to say and how I would like him to say it, and thank him for being more polite. I wouldn't require him to ask, BTW, just remind him how he should ask. When I keep the cereal on the belt, the tantrum gets worse in our case.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LilyGrace* 
This will pass, but do everything possible to minimize tantrum times and make good use of the ones you do have in the meantime.

To me, listening to his request to have things go certain ways and letting my three year old have his way is what I do to minimize tantrums. We have major power and control struggles, and I *want* him to feel that his needs are important, especially because I was brought up to feel that my emotional needs are unimportant. But I still have a backbone.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *clothdipemomof2boy* 
I am glad I found this thread. I have something to ask. My 3.5 year old is what some might call bad... I dont feel this way i feel that he is just trying to express himself and has no words that can express it. Today he was jumping over mud puddles then decided he wanted to jump in it. I have to mention we were at my oldest sons preschool waiting for them to open. And of course other moms are there well there kids decided that they wanted to join in. Well I got the mean looks cause my son was the first to do it. Then he started to run off so I did have to run after him to keep from getting hit. I held him to make sure he was safe but to show him that he was in trouble but i dont want to spank him. The other moms just looked at me and said things like I would spank my child if he ever did that to me. His daddy would spank his butt if he were my child. My biggest issue is did I do right or should i have just left till it was time to open up and walked away with both kids and just talk with them till it was over. Or should i have just taken them home. I felt like I was bieng judged at that point and the parents looked at my oldest as if he was bieng just as bad and he didnt do anything yet...! Then of course he started playing spiderman the evil one and started screaming at everyone of course i made him stand next to us so that he would understand we dont do that at all since it was scaring the other kids. I dont feel i am a bad parent I just am frustrated since they seem to be able to control thier kids and mine look they run all over the place. I dont know what i am doing wrong can someone help.

Wild kids can sometimes be embarrassing. I like your idea of leading your kids away from the judgment and engaging them so that they don't stir up the other kids.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 
Eventually, kids do "get it" but it takes a while. I never stopped taking my kids in public- all of them have had checkout line tantrums at one point or another, and I don't think I've ever stopped shopping in the middle because of a child's behavior (or if I did once or twice it wasn't something I made a habit of doing.) 3yos either sat in the cart or were on a harness- NEVER walking around next to me, free to run off. Or if I let them walk next to me, they'd be in the cart at the first sign of "unsafe not listening."

I don't know if these tips will work for every kid. But in general, I never felt the need to "not be seen in public" with toddlers who might scream or make a scene. I never took it personally.

You are very strong, Ruthla. I think it is really hard for many parents to do this. I try to take a similar approach in carrying on with our errands as much as possible, but I find it physically and emotionally exhausting and draining, so for a while now I have avoided taking my children to the store. I can't stop feeling bad for disrupting other people's day with the screaming and moaning coming from my DS. I can't stop feeling embarrassed when he is lying on the floor and refuses to move (no leash would fix this problem). I can strap 30lb DD in the shopping cart seat, but 40 lb DS tries to climb/fall out of the back when I put him in, fires groceries over the side, hits DD, etc.

I think I have unlocked the true reason that 50's homemakers took valium: they had three year old children. I have never really drank or taken drugs, but when I finally get into the car after a wretched grocery store experience, I find myself perfectly understanding the concept of self-medication.









Not that I would ever take anything, of course. I just eat chocolate when I get home









-dflanag2


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## rainbowmoon (Oct 17, 2003)

my just turned 4yo DS was like this 6 months ago.
(what a difference 6 months makes!)
hang in there! it WILL get better!

btw the book _Playful Parenting_ helped me. also I am 99% sure my DS has SPD (sensory processing disorder) as well.


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## clothdipemomof2boy (Nov 29, 2005)

I am with you with the chocolate..
The playful parent is it a magazine or a book is it from nickelodean or what i would love to know maybe it might help.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

Three is a very difficult age. There were many days when my dd had a tantrum when we were doing things in public and I just had to breathe through them, there was no one to take dd out and we couldn't go without food so I continued to bring her shopping. I did find that if I gave her a snack while we shopped and some water from a fancy cup from the Starbuck's stand that usually helped her to be a more patient shopper. I also tried not to reinforce the tantrums by immediately giving in to them. If she wanted to have or do something in the store and started to make a fuss I reminded her to say "can I have/do this" in a happy voice and I tried to reinforce that as much as possible. I think it is important to keep children used to going in public and doing things like this on small scales at least because that is the only way they will learn how to behave in socially appropriate ways in these situations.

Most importantly though, you are probably going to go through a lot of really humiliating public situations and really the best thing to do, whether you follow your dd's "rules" or not, is to get used to it and ignore the feeling of being humiliated. It gets a whole lot worse than tantrums, there may even be a day when you wish it was just tantrums.


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## Janelovesmax (Feb 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rainbowmoon* 







my just turned 4yo DS was like this 6 months ago.
(what a difference 6 months makes!)
hang in there! it WILL get better!

btw the book _Playful Parenting_ helped me. also I am 99% sure my DS has SPD (sensory processing disorder) as well.

I love you. You gave me hope, but I have more then a year to go!


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## PatienceAndLove (Jan 5, 2008)

I have yet to have to leave with DD, thank God, but I have come close a few times.
I actually made pack of grocery cards for her- they have a picture of each item with the name of the item underneath. I change the cards for each trip depending on what we need. Then, she helps me find the items. It is also her "job" to "check" the items as we unload them ("did we get bananas?" "check!")

As for making dinner. DD knows that she does not bother mama when she is cooking unless she is bleeding/puking/dying, the house is on fire, or the cats are puking/coughing up hairballs.

I hope those help!
Oh- have you tried putting her down for bed earlier? That has worked wonders with my DD.


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## Limabean1975 (Jan 4, 2008)

So, can I just hijack this thread for a second with my burning question? HEre it is: Would any one of you who have posted in this thread think that the age of 3.5 is a good time to bring a new baby into the picture? No? I didn't think so. I'm going to have to really re-think when I plan to TTC #2.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dflanag2* 
You are very strong, Ruthla. I think it is really hard for many parents to do this. I try to take a similar approach in carrying on with our errands as much as possible, but I find it physically and emotionally exhausting and draining, so for a while now I have avoided taking my children to the store.

Who ever said it wasn't draining?

But food shopping had to be done and I didn't always have the option of leaving the kids at home when I went shopping.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Limabean1975* 
So, can I just hijack this thread for a second with my burning question? HEre it is: Would any one of you who have posted in this thread think that the age of 3.5 is a good time to bring a new baby into the picture? No? I didn't think so. I'm going to have to really re-think when I plan to TTC #2.

I don't think there's ever a "perfect time" to have another baby.

Some kids go through the "three and a half" stage at age 3, others at age 4- you really can't predict at what point your individual child is going to be in the "worst of it".


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## Limabean1975 (Jan 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 
I don't think there's ever a "perfect time" to have another baby.

Some kids go through the "three and a half" stage at age 3, others at age 4- you really can't predict at what point your individual child is going to be in the "worst of it".

*sigh* I know, I know.







DS was an "accident"...we weren't even sure if we wanted kids...so now for number 2, I am thinkingthinkingthinkingthinking and I can't shut my brain up when I see threads like this! Thanks for your input.


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## clothdipemomof2boy (Nov 29, 2005)

I had DS#2 when DS#1 was just turning 2 in 2 months hehehe







so I didnt even wait till the first was3.5. oh well I wanted twins that is close enough.


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## FoxintheSnow (May 11, 2004)

I totally agree with Ruthla on this!


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## rainbowmoon (Oct 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *clothdipemomof2boy* 
I am with you with the chocolate..
The playful parent is it a magazine or a book is it from nickelodean or what i would love to know maybe it might help.

it is a book!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Janelovesmax* 
I love you. You gave me hope, but I have more then a year to go!









all kids are different though. My DS has sensory issues too so I still DO deal with tantrums! I used to force him into alot of social situations thinking it would help the issue not realizing he has other stuff going on. (boy did that backfire) but then again DS is EXTREMELY emotional & sensitive, more so than most kids I have met his age. sooo the 3's were hellish but he has mellowed and I have also learned how to handle the tantrums better.So, now the tantrums are just 4yo ones and not 3yo ones kinda just more mellow in nature and not nearly as often in public places anyway!

I have found what Ruthla described really has helped the most. (disengaging) When I would give in or react they got worse. Not going places is not an option at times as I am a single mama. But I definitely have learned the hard way to plan ahead as much as possible!


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## Indysmom (Feb 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dflanag2* 
I think I have unlocked the true reason that 50's homemakers took valium: they had three year old children. I have never really drank or taken drugs, but when I finally get into the car after a wretched grocery store experience, I find myself perfectly understanding the concept of self-medication.









Not that I would ever take anything, of course. I just eat chocolate when I get home









-dflanag2

laughup














:









Yes, I could have written basically everything that was previously posted! My son is now 3.5 and I am at the point where I want to send him off to daycare or preschool a few hours two days a week. I'm burnt out and tired of always having difficulty on a moment to moment basis. I wonder if I will ever have moments where he flows with life. When we get to the end of the day and put him to bed, I feel so glad that everyone is not hurt and is still alive.

It is even worse because of his intense aggression and physical roughness with my just one year old daughter. When he hurts her I just get infuriated and really want to remove him for everyone's safety. He has not recovered from his sister being born, yet. I never could have imagined *how long* he would feel upset over not being the only child. I joke at night with my DH that my son should have been the second or third kid. He needs a big brother/sister to give him a reality check&#8230; My poor just walking babe really takes the brunt of his intense nature. I feel sad for her sometimes because she is really never free to just be when he is around.

At least I'm realizing that my situation is not uncommon.


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## NaomiMcC (Mar 22, 2007)

I agree with Ruthla. 100%


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## SAHDS (Mar 28, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lalaland42* 
Last night we were at the store and I accidentally put the cereal on the belt. She started screaming that she wanted to do it so I grab the cereal to hand to her.

By giving her the cereal, you showed her it was okay for her to act like that. Not only okay, but you rewarded her for doing so. When she acts out, you should never give into that, what's to stop her if she's constantly getting her way?

LilyGrace - I could not agree more with what you had to say.

Maybe I'm a mean one too







but my kids have never thrown a tantrum and are very well behaved.


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## clothdipemomof2boy (Nov 29, 2005)

Maybe I'm a mean one too







but my kids have never thrown a tantrum and are very well behaved.[/QUOTE]

Wish I could say that one. My children will especailly if they know daddy is not there. Why do they do that to me? I will have to find out wht everyone does cause I have no idea my kids dont listen to me at all!


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## AnnasMominPA (Jan 13, 2005)

Playful Parenting is by Lawrence J. Cohen. I would definately recommend it. It helps to give you a special way to connect with your children. I think it is a very useful tool for parents of three year olds since I feel that it can be extremely useful in avoiding power struggles.

The web site for the book is http://www.playfulparenting.com/

Angela


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## dflanag2 (Oct 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SAHDS* 
By giving her the cereal, you showed her it was okay for her to act like that. Not only okay, but you rewarded her for doing so. When she acts out, you should never give into that, what's to stop her if she's constantly getting her way?

LilyGrace - I could not agree more with what you had to say.

Maybe I'm a mean one too







but my kids have never thrown a tantrum and are very well behaved.

Well, I wouldn't just give my DS the cereal, I would also remind him that he should use his words instead of screaming and I would model what I would like for him to say in that situation, saying to him, "Hey mom, I really wanted to put the cereal on the belt, can you give it back to me so I can put it up there, please?" I don't see myself as rewarding or punishing in this scenario, merely responding empathically to my child and teaching him how to respond in this situation.

I think the way different parents will handle this scenario is really based on each parent's personal values. For me it is extremely important to validate my kids' emotions/needs/wants because I didn't get that validation as a child.

The way I see it is that by responding to my child's need to put the cereal on the belt I am averting a larger 'tantrum' and sending my DS the message that his needs and his feelings are important to me. Him screaming to put the cereal on the belt I don't see as the tantrum, just him expressing his feeling because he has 'forgotten' (for the bazillionth time) how to express himself in a socially appropriate way. He has intense emotions and I want to help him learn to process them rather than repress them.

-dflanag2


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## Nibikwe (May 2, 2006)

Hi Mamas...

Oh I hear you loud and clear. Andraeus (just turned 3) has his SERIOUS dramas.. maybe I should say it in a positive way... umm he gets really passionate about things and you know, I think I've just realized that me reacting to him like he's "out to get me" or trying to be naughty, just DOESN't work, and isn't actually accurate.

I am learning to "disengage" as another mum put it, when the rage happens, but that rage is usually hunger-related and is a fire best put out with extreme calmness for me, and compassion. I know, it's easier said than done, but I honestly believe that they are giving us messages, not about the groceries or the order that things are done in, but something bigger and overarching. I DO IT MYSELF!!!! That's what they want, that's what they get angry about, frustrated (poor things, learning all this stuff about how it all works-- it's a lot for a little person) (for any person starting out)..

So... I guess my biggest big of advice is have compassion for their wee growing selves. I know that as soon as Andraeus could do things by himself, I just ticked a box on an invisible list of learning, and I stopped doing those things for him. But you know what? Sometimes at dinner, he wants to be fed. Sounds so indulgent, I know. But so what? They were babies only a few short years ago. THey don't want to be independent totally just yet.

and my other suggestion... try to anticipate their breakdowns and give them jobs, not just in the crunch of the grocery line, but through the day.. I give choices about things, like would you like this or that? and if the answer is a yelled "I DON"T LIKE THIS OR THAT??" then well, that's what's on the menu, those are your choices. So, it's like giving them freedom with limits.

Sorry if I sound preachy, but I had a hard time with the whole rest of the 3 years before this, and now I just want to share the flow we've happened to find in this age-zone.. I REALLY hope this all helps anyone who needs it.

Love to you

Erin


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## timneh_mom (Jun 13, 2005)

OH. MY. GOD.

I don't have any advice or suggestions but my almost 3.5 year old has been HORRIBLE HORRIBLE HORRIBLE lately! I don't want to take over the thread but I understand where you guys are coming from. Sometimes it doesn't even seem like he is human! (Awful I know, but I'm worn down and neither of my kids sleep!)


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## Qestia (Sep 26, 2005)

Just signing in, we're in the same boat. I have "your 3 yo" and it also says to just let them have their own way when possible--it's important for them to have autonomy. So why not let her put the cereal on the belt? When I let DS have his way about the things that don't matter--him putting waffles in the toaster, letting DH put on jammies instead of me, him buckling the stroller straps, not me, etc etc, I find he's more willing to cooperate about things that do matter (ie we have to leave the house now). Sad to say I still mess up a lot, like this morning, which involved a lot of yelling on my part and eventually collapsing in tears (mine) on the front steps no less). But do try letting her have her way about things that don't matter, when I do it it's been good for us. I just have to remember to do it!


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## Qestia (Sep 26, 2005)

double post


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## southernmommie (Jan 7, 2007)

Oh. My. Goodness. I am right there with you guys. My DD is not 3 yet though, but let me tell you... she has had some complete meltdowns these past 4 weeks. I know what the problem is. She's no longer the baby anymore. My baby will be 3 months next week. Daddy just went back to sea duty and has been out the past 3 weeks. DS is 6 and he goes outside to play with his friends that have been on spring break here that whole time. So she's left to herself again. Only this time without the attention of me since I'm usually sitting down nursing the new one. I am going to get those two books next payday and look into it. I know that DS has sensory issues too and she's showing some sensory issues herself. I'm glad this thread was here!


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Go shop alone until she is ready to go to the store. Seems to me, she is not ready to do that.


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## Limabean1975 (Jan 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Qestia* 
Sad to say I still mess up a lot, like this morning, which involved a lot of yelling on my part and eventually collapsing in tears (mine) on the front steps no less).

Silver lining: your neighbours, and your son, got to see a REAL HUMAN BEING being real!


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## ani'smommy (Nov 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Qestia* 
Just signing in, we're in the same boat. I have "your 3 yo" and it also says to just let them have their own way when possible--it's important for them to have autonomy. So why not let her put the cereal on the belt? When I let DS have his way about the things that don't matter--him putting waffles in the toaster, letting DH put on jammies instead of me, him buckling the stroller straps, not me, etc etc, I find he's more willing to cooperate about things that do matter (ie we have to leave the house now). Sad to say I still mess up a lot, like this morning, which involved a lot of yelling on my part and eventually collapsing in tears (mine) on the front steps no less). But do try letting her have her way about things that don't matter, when I do it it's been good for us. I just have to remember to do it!

Wow, I think this might solve some of our problems. Like someone else said before, I think I do have to give up some more control. I feel like I'm stuck in a power struggle with DD right now -- that if I let her do whatever she wants then I have no authority, you know? But risking that is probably better than yelling at her for yelling at me which is what my current strategy is.







:


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