# police called for screaming



## bendmom (Sep 4, 2003)

our ds is 4, and has started a bad habit of screaming nonstop. We know he is not in pain because he will stop to ask for ice cream/cookie/candy and when we say no he continues like someone cut off his legs. We usually put him in his room for as many minutes as he is old, but he doesn't care. He will scream for hours if he feels like it. Our christian friends tell us we should give our son a good beating and he'll never cry again. We would NEVER hit our child!
Last night he started screaming and we put him in his room. He continued for about 10-15 min and finally stopped to a knock on the door. A caring neighbor called the police to report child abuse in our home. They did a background check on us and we heard them stick around our house after the fact to see what we would do. I am humiliated and upset, but understanding. The question is, how do we get him to stop doing this without our neighbors thinking we beat our child?


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## PurplePixiePooh (Aug 5, 2003)

I have no advice on getting him to stop screaming, but I would consider inviting the neighbors over whn you know an episode is likely to happen so they can see what is going on with their own eyes. Like a dinner invite or game night etc....


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## sparklemom (Dec 11, 2001)

I would call the police too if I heard a child screaming like you're describing. You can't really fault them for that.

I'm so thankful to read that you don't spank your child!
But I am concerned to hear your child screams for so long and alone. Clearly he feels very sad and misunderstood inside. I know this must be very hard for all of you.

And if he stops to ask for ice cream/cookie/candy by all means let him have it! No need to create issues there. If you don't want him to have those things then don't have them in your home so that it's not such an issue and at least sympathize with his desire.


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## spero (Apr 22, 2003)

Good Lord, what kind of Christians would encourage you to beat a child?!?

Sheesh.


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## bendmom (Sep 4, 2003)

Thank you for your replies. We don't have good relations with most of our neighbors. They dislike the fact that we are renting our house while we finish school. We never leave him in his room longer than 2-3 min before coming in and talking to him, trying to hug etc. It's when he tries to kick the door down that I tell him he will have to stay in longer if he can't tell me what is wrong. I just don't know how else to deal with it. If I try to pick him up or hold him he gets mad. I'm hoping this is a stage that will pass. The screaming about treats happens because it is rare that he gets these things. If he sees candy in the store he screams all the way home if he doesn't get it. I'm getting used to it, but other people are not.


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## hvl25 (Jan 28, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by sparklemom_
*
And if he stops to ask for ice cream/cookie/candy by all means let him have it! No need to create issues there. If you don't want him to have those things then don't have them in your home so that it's not such an issue and at least sympathize with his desire.*
Let him have it? So then he realizes that screaming makes his parents give in to whatever he wants? Hmmmm......









Anyway, maybe sit down and explain that it is not a good thing to have the police called and maybe give him some of the repercusions(sp?) of what will happen if they are called again due to his screaming. I would not give him what he wanted though.


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## sparklemom (Dec 11, 2001)

No surprise that suggestion doesn't flow over well with some...

I never like to see food of any sort turned into an issue at all. ever.

Also, far worse than the horror of hearing him scream would be for him to learn that he has to stuff his feelings inside rather than let them out. At least his screaming is a physical release of his negative feelings---if he is told and threatened not to scream but yet the underlying problem of why he is screaming in the first place is not addressed and respected then his true problems could escalate in a dangerous and unhealthy way.

I would not threaten him or get mad at him for these episodes. I would feel compassionately towards him and let him know that you truly want to help him feel better. And, again, pick your battles---if, for example, you're at a store and he wants some candy on the way out then get him some and move on! Respect is often a give and take. Children learn by example. As hard as it is for us parents sometimes, it's also hard to be a kid.


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## Eggie (Aug 7, 2003)

My dd is only 4.5 months old but she recently discovered how good she can screem... she has incredible lungs, lol







and after a screaming session she just laughes a lot... anyways, on labor day I discovered a blister in her leg and I called the ped but wasn't available so I called 911 to ask for advice (I wanted to make sure it wasn't an spider bite or else). My dd was screaming very happy so the operator decided to send an ambulance, I told her that I could go to ER by myself if that was necesary but she insisted twice. So they came, by that time dd wasn't screaming anymore, just smiling very happy, and this people was all over the house, then I realized that they thought I was abusing my child and wanted to check out! Finally they commented about how clean was the house with a baby and pets and how happy and healthy the baby looks and of course disregarded the possibility of a bug's bite. Just wanted to share it with you because I think that my little one will still be a good screamer when she grows old... you are not alone:LOL


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## bendmom (Sep 4, 2003)

I agree, food should never be an issue. That's why we try to never have problem foods in the house. I did tell him that if he screamed again the police will come. That made him pretty quiet when he started up again. Is that considered threatening? it seems that I am constantly worrying about any punishment and how it could be misconstrued.
Our friends from church spank their children for just about everything, including spanking their 1 1/2 yr. ds for pooping in his diaper and not telling them in time for the toilet. I feel so horrible about it and never want to punish my child in a way that might be seen as wrong. After seeing the way they punish, I'm scared to even say something to my ds about his behavior.


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## canadiyank (Mar 16, 2002)

Oh, wow! How sad for you and your son. I always feel a little nervous about bringing this up b/c I don't want to push things on people, but since you said you're Christian and looking for non-punitive ways to parent your child, I would like to recommend looking into Grace-Based Parenting. It is a non-punitive while non-permissive style of parenting that is respectful of the child and the parent and very, very practical. Please check out the forums and articles at www.GentleMothering.com and the articles at www.aolff.org

The thing that has helped me most, however, is to be a part of the group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PositiveChristianAP/ The ladies there are wonderful and I have learned SO much in the 18 mos. I've been a part of it. I would invite you to join (be sure to put yourself on "daily digest" when given the option) and post your scenario - you will get many thoughtful and helpful responses. Crystal Lutton, who "owns" the list, is wonderful and just came to speak at our church a couple weeks ago. And as far as people who aren't Christians, it's not an exclusive club by any means - the principles of GBD can be applied within any spiritual beliefs.

As far as spanking and Christians - this is a very hot topic. In fact, I got a letter just the other day from a lady who's into Growing Kids God's Way (very punitive) who was accusing me of being un-Biblical since I am non-punitive. Well, despite what she and "they" may think, the Bible does NOT say to punish your child - it says to discipline. How we discipline may differ, but I just want to emphasize the fact the the Bible does NOT say to spank.

This post is getting long, and I realize I never really addressed your original post! Well, anyways, please join the PCAP group and check out some of those links.


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## Katana (Nov 16, 2002)

Hi bendmom,

My ds had his screaming phase when he was about 24 months, till he was almost 3 yrs. He could carry on for up to an hour, sometimes longer if he wanted. Good news, it was a phase, it did end. But it was a long year. I know I'll never forget it.

When he would start screaming, I would try to distract him into doing something else, anything else besides screaming. For example, if he was screaming because he wanted a toy, I'd pick him up, take him to the table and try to get him to color. Or some other activity that wasn't about the toy he couldn't have.

If he wanted some kind of food that he couldn't have, I'd try to tempt him with something he could have. Like, no cookie, but he could have a grape, and I'd show him cool things to do with the grape, like how it could fly into his mouth, or roll around on the table or whatever.

It was exhausting at times, but there was always something to distract him with. It makes you get real imaginative. I know it's tough, but hang in there, and good luck.


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## crazy_eights (Nov 22, 2001)

My very strong willed 7 year old does this too. I have worried about the neighbors calling the police,b/c quite honestly it sounds like an axe murder going on when she gets going. The only advice I can offer is to try to avoid triggers (I know my daughter is more likely to have a meltdown when overtired/off schedule) and comfort yourself that it gets less and less with time. She hardly ever does it anymore, but a year ago it was still a rather frequent occurance. My oldest son did the same thing when he was younger, but stopped at a much earlier age. I think it is just a temperment thing b/c I have 4 other children who were never screamers.

FWIW, my parents think I should smack her too. Yeah, that's the ticket. Smack a screaming kid & see if they stop screaming.







:


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## sparklemom (Dec 11, 2001)

I would be careful about telling him the police are going to come if he screams. He may begin to fear the police in general.

Also, remember to acknowledge his feelings. Once he's calm enough to actually hear you say to him "You must feel SO sad!" or "You're really irritated with me right now" "You must be so angry with me" "You feel really upset because...." Acknowledging how he is feeling will help him feel calmer.


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## Mothernature (Jun 10, 2002)

What a tight spot to be in. On one hand you have a screaming child and neighbors who are concerned enough to call the police. On the other hand you have the lessons to teach from the situation. You don't want your child to be afraid to scream for the police when or if a situation arose that he needed their help, but you also don't want him to draw them when they are not needed. It might be a good time for the story of the little boy who cried wolf. You can end it however you like (the real ending was rather gorey.) He needs to know that the police are there to help us when we need them but that they are also very busy with real crimes and they shouldn't be bothered with false alarms. He also needs to know that screaming is not the best way to communicate his feelings. I think it is a temperment thing as a previous poster said, but I think it stems from the same out of control feelings that children get that cause other misbehaviors (for lack of a better word.) I say pick a time that he is calm and talk about other ways of expressing extreme emotions. If he must scream maybe he could do it into his pillow so as not to concern the neighbors. I'm just throwing thoughts out there. You may have already exhausted these ideas and need some real help. Hang in there. You'll get through this too.


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## Mallory (Jan 2, 2002)

How about you just stop saying no?
I don't mean by saying yes, just by opening up conversations instead of shutting him down.

ds-"I want some candy"
mom-"you would like candy" or "I see" or "lets make a list of all the kinds you would get" or give him a small notebook and tell him to copy the names of the kind he wants.

Responding like this really makes him feel like his thoughts and feelings are important and not just wrong.

I also agree that talking about ways to express his anger when he is not mad could help, but by the time someone is so upset all they really need is some love and support. Have you read the tantrum article that was in Mothering last nov? tantrums

And yeah I think that telling him the police will come is threatening.


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## hvl25 (Jan 28, 2003)

I don't think telling him the police will come is threatening if you explain it right. Maybe by telling him that the police are there to help him when he needs it and he is really in trouble or hurt, but having them come because he screams over candy is not what they are there for.

I agree over food issues, however, I don't consider candy/cookies to be food. My kids would eat that all day if I let them and we have had plenty of screaming fits with my almost 5 year old, but just because he screams doesn't mean he is getting what he wants. I tell him I will listen to him when he can talk so I can understand him. Screaming gets him no where and he has pretty much figured that out.


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## joesmom (Nov 19, 2001)

you can't tell the mom of a screamer what to do unless you are also the mom of a screamer!

joe does this occasionally & it is LOUD!

do not give in to him, unless you want the screaming episodes to occur more frequently! try to wait him out, & i think too you could invite the neighbors over. have they never heard of temper tantrums?

i am a Christian, but i would NEVER advocate the horrible ezzo & pearls, many of us are not like that!

& i would tell your son if he screams the police might come~ it isn't a threat, it's TRUE.

good luck, hope this helps!


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## bendmom (Sep 4, 2003)

Thank you canadiyank for the links. We started going back to church again, but as a vegitarian, enviro friendly, AP family, it's hard to fit in. We hope he will grow out of this stage soon, and thanks moms for your advice, that's why I come here.


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

duh, how did i double post?


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

Gosh, I sure don't know. My kids are younger but I do know they learn very quickly what gets attention. Does he do it deliberately; ie. when you say NO, he looks at you and opens his mouth? Any chance at all you can just simply ignore it and live life around him; ie. give him absolutely no attention for this? I teach 5 y.o. and I have learned that ANY attention at all, even if negative, is often what kids are seeking.
I'd hold off on talking about the police b/c it could seem threatening OR it could seem rewarding.
Could you get a note from your dr. about how screaming can be developmental and drop it on your neighbors' door? Silly and stupid, I know. But, maybe they don't know and maybe they'd respect "authority."







:

Does he play often w/other kids? Maybe preschool would be a good stimulus for him.
I work really hard w/my toddler to identify all of his feelings and to "use his words."

Dunno re: food. I wouldn't give in. IMHO that rewards him. Maybe it'll stop the present behavior, but you've taught him something about getting what he wants.








Best of luck!!


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## Teensy (Feb 22, 2002)

Yeah, before I had kids I thought "My children will never . . ."

Now I know that you can't make a child do anything.

If the screaming began because you refused him ice cream, I certainly would not give in. If he was screaming for some other reason and stopped to ask for ice cream, I might agree to give it to him (so long as he was no longer screaming while I scooped it out).

At 4 years old, I would have no problem confining him to his room for so long as he was still screaming. He can scream if he is upset, but he doesn't have the right to impose it on your ears, KWIM.

Sometimes when my DS would get upset, I would decide to go for a drive. I would strap him in his car seat, then stand in the driveway taking deep breaths for a minute or two before getting in myself. Usually, driving around would distract him, and we might stop at a playground after a bit.

That screaming must have been loud! for the neighbors to call the police! (good for them for caring) or do you have very thin walls? oh boy

good luck


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## bendmom (Sep 4, 2003)

He mostly just screams when he wakes from a nap. We know that there is nothing wrong, he just does this. If we do not give him something right away, he could scream forever. The neighbors hear him because it is still in the 90's here, and we put all the windows up in the day and evening. This reminds me of when he had colic, only louder. Belive me, if we had central air, this would not be an issue. But I know that his bedroom faces the back of 5 other houses, so I try to stop it when I can, or if it is late in the evening. Otherwise, what are small children for, if not to put those new lungs to use?


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Since its happening after he wakes from naps, I wonder if it could be a bloodsugar related thing? If he is asking for sweets, maybe his system *needs* some sugar? How about making a small cup of juice a routine after his naps?

It makes sense in terms of logical consequences to ask him to take his screaming to a place where it doesn't bother other people. I would not tell him a certain number of minutes -- that makes it into a punishment instead of a logical conseqence. I would phrase it as "When you need to scream, you may go in the bedroom. When you are ready to talk in a normal voice, you may come out."

I wonder if there is a place in your house where screaming can be better contained? A basement, maybe? Ideally, he could have a somewhat sound proofed area with a rug and beanbag chair where he could go and "get it out" without disturbing anyone. I realize that reality is rarely close to ideal though.

Looking ahead longer-term, it sounds like you need a plan for gradually teaching him to substitute some other more acceptable form of expression for his feelings. I don't know what. But I don't think it will work to expect him to just "stop" unless he knows what he can do *instead* when he has strong feelings. KWIM? Using words or maybe drawing angry pictures, or singing really loudly.

Editting to add: I just reread the posts and Mallory's suggestion stuck out to me as a good idea to try -- in order to avoid the escalating power struggle. Instead of saying "no" when he wants something, agree with him about how nice that sounds and indulge the fantasy for awhile -- without every giving in. "Oh wow, candy sounds yummy doesn't it? I could eat candy all day too. I won't do that because it would hurt my body, but it is sure nice to think about! My favorite is chocolate. What is your favorite? Do you think there will be candy in Heaven? Maybe there will be *healthy* candy in heaven! Next time we have a special treat, what sort of sweet will you want?" And so on.... Maybe it won't work, but I think it was a great suggestion and worth a try!


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## Teensy (Feb 22, 2002)

Oh, now that is a little bit different. I assumed he was screaming because he was mad about something.

My DS#1 went through a phase where several times a month he would scream upon waking from his nap (only his nap, he never did this at night or upon waking in the morning). He would scream for almost exactly 20 minutes. We would try to distract him by rocking him, or turning on a video or offering him a popsicle, but he would just keep on screaming anyway. I even videtaped him one day screaming for the twenty minute period to show his pediatrician. She didn't have an answer right away (suggested I keep a diary to see if it was related to something he ate, or a lack of food prior, etc).

After a few months it stopped and we never did figure out what was causing it. We called it his "exoricist baby routine" because it looked and sounded like he was possessed.

Ugh. Anyway, good luck solving it. I have no suggestions, just sympathy.


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## wemberly (Jun 26, 2003)

Elliott, who is four and has sensory integration dysfunction has always been a loud guy. Early on, we began going outside when he started screaming (at 4 months). We would tell him to use an inside voice, or we could go outside (let's talk about cold doorsteps in January in Chicago!) I felt that going outside was beneficial for a number of reasons--if he kept screaming, we were in plain sight so the neighbors knew I wasn't beating him, if something unknown in the house was disturbing him, we were away from the stimuli, and finally, the change of scenery helped us both--the screaming ended really quickly (most of the time). Outside time wasn't punitive, it was just the best place to be if you need to yell, and usually, there was something much cooler to look at, so the screaming ceased.

You might want to talk about the screaming with your ds, when he is very calm. Ask him to problem solve and come up with a solution to the problem. I would also keep a cup of juice, or something else with a little sugar by the bed so he can have it as soon as he wakes. Elliott did some screaming after nap for a while and it really was a drop in his blood sugar that caused a great deal of his upset.

Good Luck mama!


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## Alenushka (Jul 27, 2002)

Explain to the child when she can or can't have sweets. We get dessert after dinner and chokolate after shopping. My sons are used to it.
I found that coming in, in the middle of screaming tantrum ever helped my son. Just made it worse. We simply told him to go to his room and stay there untill he is ready to re joy civilised society. yes, sometime he could scream for a long time. But I do not have noisy neigbours.
we also made it very clrea that scream will NEVER get him what he wants.
It really worked for us


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## angela&avery (May 30, 2002)

just wanted to say that a four year old can understand that its not ok to scream like that..... i would simply explain that you understand why he is upset and that it is ok to be angry and even to cry and say so, and to use his words, but screaming hurts your ears and as long as he is going to scream, you need him to be in a different room... i see no problem with removing him from the general living area if he is screaming like that... i would just continue doing that while intermittantly going in and reminding him that it is ok to be upset but if he would like to come out of his room he needs to stop screaming. I would not give in to what he wants...

that said, if he does it all the time, maybe you should pick and choose your battles... do you feel like you are saying no all the time? try to pick a few things to stick to that really bother you and just say no to them, and then let some things go.... its not fun being told no all day long, its very frusterating to children.


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## miamom (Sep 6, 2003)

My dd is almost 4 and she does a similiar thing. This loud screaming just started. She does it in public though and people look at me like I am somehow hurting her and she throws herself all over the floor...lotsa fun!
DD also did this after naps a few months ago. A teacher at her school suggested a way to deal with lots of problems where communication is important: *Write a book* When dd is calm I talk about the situation "You were feeling really angry in the store today..." and then I ask her if she wants to write a book about how she was feeling. The first time I wrote and drew the pics and then she started dictating what she wanted it to say and I would write it down exactly as she tells me. The result is that she has her problem, whatever it is, in her hands to hold and look at whenever she wants. We can read about it and talk about all the time. These books have been amazing for our communication...

Just an idea...good luck!

Raina
Mommy and Nannies to Emilia 10-21-99


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## momea (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by sparklemom_
*I would call the police too if I heard a child screaming like you're describing. You can't really fault them for that.
*

Quote:

*Also, far worse than the horror of hearing him scream would be for him to learn that he has to stuff his feelings inside rather than let them out.*
sparklemom I just want to ask you to think twice before you call the police on a family if you hear screaming. There could be so many many other reasons for the screaming besides abuse. The child could have some kind of disorder, they could be having a really really bad week/month, or the parents may simply feel, as it seems you do from the quote above, that it is better to let a child cry than to bribe/threaten/whatever them into not crying.

Could it be possible that a parent is being as loving and understanding as can be and still a child just needs to cry? And yet you would call the police on such a family! I tell you the only time I have ever "made" my girl stuff her feelings is when I am worried someone will call the police on us because she is crying so much!

I guess I don't understand your stance because it seems you don't advocate shushing a child and yet if a family doesn't do that then you would call the police on them. ?


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## sparklemom (Dec 11, 2001)

just last week there was an article in our local newspaper about a three year old who was beaten to death by her father. when the neighbors were questioned by police many said they had heard extensive screaming and crying from the house but no one had bothered to call police.
while there are times (as apparently in this thread's case) where extended screaming and crying is not related to physical abuse, there are times when it is. as far as children's concerns go why not play on the safe side?

even the starter of this thread understands why police were called. i was only echoing her sympathy for her neighbor's concern.

i don't believe in bribing/threatening/punishing a child. i would work hard and exercise all the patience i could muster to try and get to the emotions behind the behavior. seems the best time to talk about the situation with the child would be during a calm happy moment rather than in the heat of things when any reason will be hard to convey. and if food issues are coming up in the middle of these episodes at times that's not helping anything. that's why i mentioned as a sidebar that making an issue out of any food only backfires, but that treads on getting off topic.

and for the record i've never called the police on a family. i think child protective services have far too much power over families.

i wish the bendmom and her son the very best. this clearly isn't easy on either of them. and bendmom, i'm so glad you've come to mothering!


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## MamaSoleil (Apr 24, 2002)

For the record, I agree with Mamaduck and Sparklemom. Get behind the emotion...
I also agree to err on the side of caution..I've never called the police on anyone, but if I was unsure, if I had even the slightest doubt...then I would have to call, or maybe even go over and try to assess the situation...

JMHO. And Bendmom, this too shall pass. Keep being strong and loving, and welcome to Mothering!!!!

Peace,

Mamasoleil/samson


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## isleta (Nov 25, 2002)

Sorry this has happened







My ds is not a screamer, so I can just come here and give you some support







Maybe it is a sugar related action as mamaduck suggested. It is good to rule out physical symptoms. I have to say, however, last night was a screaming night.

On one of my other lists, a suggestion was to give the child "screamin time" at a certain time of day. The child can have a place to scream for a limited amount of time. I am assuming this makes them feel in control of their screaming. She gave her daughter a time each day to scream. She eventually did not want to scream anymore.

When my ds screams, he has a screaming spot he goes to. He picked his basketball rug to be the spot. It works good with us. My son is actually a crier and this was the way I handled the crying. Anyway, I hope it works out for the best!

I actually talkrd to my neighbor about it-they said that they understand it is hard for kids to go to sleep. Maybe if the neighbors know its only at nap time they will understand. I sympathize and understand. I feel when he cries really loud and for extended periods that people wonder about it. It sounds like you are a loving, caring mom who does care about his feelings and needs!


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## isleta (Nov 25, 2002)

Sorry this has happened







My ds is not a screamer, so I can just come here and give you some support







However, last night was a screaming night. Maybe it is a sugar related action as mamaduck suggested. It is good to rule out physical symptoms.

On one of my other lists, a suggestion was to give the child "screamin time" at a certain time of day. The child can have a place to scream for a limited amount of time. I am assuming this makes them feel in control of their screaming. She gave her daughter a time each day to scream. She eventually did not want to scream anymore.

When my ds screams, he has a screaming spot he goes to. He picked his basketball rug to be the spot. It works good with us. My son is actually a crier and this was the way I handled the crying. Anyway, I hope it works out for the best!

I actually talkrd to my neighbor about it-they said that they understand it is hard for kids to go to sleep. Maybe if the neighbors know its only at nap time they will understand. I sympathize and understand. I feel when he cries really loud and for extended periods that people wonder about it. It sounds like you are a loving, caring mom who does care about his feelings and needs!


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## momea (Nov 22, 2001)

Hey sparklemom,
I just have a hard time believing that screaming was the ONLY sign of abuse the neighbors noticed. I guess what I was saying is I wouldn't call the police on someone JUST because I heard screaming. I would definitely feel like checking out the situation further - but I wouldn't call in the authorities without any other signs to confirm my suspicions. I just seems like big step to me that could make a family feel like they are being spied on - and how could you handle the crying with any real composure after having the police called on you? I tell you I'd be feeling really anxious about it and I don't know that I myself have the self control to not let it make me want to get my child to stop screaming and crying at almost any cost. I would also feel alienated from the neighborhood.
My child is very loud and intense and when we moved here to our new neighborhood she had a heck of a time adjusting. She did a lot of screaming - due to lack of sleep, sadness and acting out associated with the move. Of course I tried to be as sensitive as I could be - but in the back of my mind I was thinking - what if someone calls the police on us? And it did affect how I treated her.


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## Mommasgirls (Nov 5, 2002)

My oldest DD is a screamer too. She had severe ADHD and severe tantrums which have had the police at our door more than once. What has finally helped is her getting older and slightly more reasonable. We now tell her if she needs to scream,yell,etc to go to her room and grab a pillow to scream into it. It works to lower the volume so the police aren't called and it gets it out of her system. It was actually one of the police officers suggestions to her.
If it only happens after naps I would try to give him something to eat as soon as he wakes up and see if that helps.I don't have a ton of suggestions but do understand how hard it is to have the police at your door thinking you are abusing your child.


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