# Spanking and my MIL



## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Oh for crying out loud!!! My MIL really gets to me. Yesterday somehow the discussion turned to a reference to spanking (made by her; I forget the reference) and I said "spanking should be illegal; it's child abuse" and she - a very reserved and introverted type shy person - asserts that she spanked all three of her boys and look how well they turned out etc. etc. and started rambling on about how all the new studies don't mean anything, etc. And I said my son will never be spanked; I don't hit him and I expect him not to hit me; there are other ways to handle discipline. And she said "yeah? how do you discipline if you don't spank" and I described how I would handle different situations, and then I went on to say what if I had spanked, and it turned out that ds was coming down with a cold or was constipated or overtired or something like that that would make him cranky, or what if he just needed extra attention for some reason and was acting out, and then I spanked him? How would I feel after I spanked him when he displays evidence of why he was acting out (like getting sick). She said "well, I'm a spanker" and I said "well, I'm not a spanker"

It was pretty intense, and I was pretty upset. She's so narrowminded it drives me up the wall! She asks me how I handle discipline, and I try to answer her about how I would redirect activity, or communicate with my dc why the behavior was not acceptable, or whatever, and her response to all that was "well, I'm a spanker"

arrrrrrrrrrrrgh! she'll never spank my dc!!!


----------



## monkey's mom (Jul 25, 2003)

I hate conversations like that! You did great!

I always try to think long-term with family--the proof is in the pudding, as they say! In a few years, she will see what discipline without violence looks like and that her grandchild is a wonderful kid! What else can you do?


----------



## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:

"well, I'm a spanker"
I'm not sure if I could have resisted:

"Still. I'd appreciate if you stopped w/DH at least."
OR
"Whatever you and FIL like in the bedroom, I certainly don't care."

At least there will be no "misunderstanding" about her accidentally spanking your DC!

Good for you for standing up for your beliefs, though!


----------



## canadiyank (Mar 16, 2002)

That sucks - I would have been really worked up, too! I really think people who are punitive just simply don't know what else to do! They perhaps have never seen anyone who doesn't spank, or who uses PD. They see it as being permissive, that there's no real discipline going on. Well, there's plenty of discipline going on in my house - I just don't confuse the word discipline with punishment - discipline is TEACHING. That is so great you had specific examples for her - but I really think she just doesn't understand. A punitive mindset is really hard to get away from (I struggle daily!), but a child learns best when they feel good, not when they're scared or sad.


----------



## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

You handled the whole thing very well! Those conversations stink for sure. I have the same thing happening with my MIL too. In fact as I read your post I thought "Geez, that could have been me and MIL". She doesn't like that my kids make their own decisions and are never punished, and certainly never physically harmed. We have had the spanking talk. I said "No one hits my children, ever." She said "Well, we spanked all our kids including your husband" I said "Yes, and he still vividly remembers the feelings of hurt and sadness that it caused. You must be so proud." Sigh... some people.


----------



## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

I dunno. I tend to be a little bit compassionate and sensitive with generations who are finished raising their children. They did what they knew best to do, and there is no way to change it now. Admitting that they were wrong would be admitting that they messed up the most important thing they ever did... and hurt the person they love best. It may be true, but is too much for some people to deal with, and I can understand that. They don't want to deal with regrets at this point in their lives. Its sad, but it maybe just too emotionally difficult for her to do anything other than stand by her actions.

I try to talk about my choices with my children in terms of what I want for them now, and not debate the larger issues with my parents or my inlaws. In spite of the hurt, I don't feel like shaking them up when there is nothing they can do to change the way they raised us.


----------



## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaduck*
Admitting that they were wrong would be admitting that they messed up the most important thing they ever did... and hurt the person they love best.










I strongly believe this is a big reason that people remain supportive of spanking--especially my mother.

When dd was younger, she would occasionally suggest spanking--and some of the conversations got heated. The last time it came up, I called to vent about a really tough phase dd was going thru (I was crying...it was just before dd's 3rd bday and dd was having super intense, violent tantrums....it was hellish for a couple weeks), and she said "Just slap her once! Just once!"









I stopped crying and said "Mom, I called to talk, because I am having a *really* hard time, and you are my mommy. But I am not nec asking for advice. We will get thru this--and we will get thru it without compromising my principles. I just need some support right now."

And that was the end of that







We got thru it, things got better, and my mother never mentioned hitting again! And, as a prev poster said, "the proof is in the pudding". Our parents see a kind, helpful, considerate little 3 yo, so clearly we must be doing something right. But remember that gd takes time, and the child's behavior does not always (and during all phases) reflect the quality of the parenting







.


----------



## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

you know, it was funny, bc while MIL and I were debating spanking, my BIL was at the table looking like he was watching a tennis match. I would say something, and he'd say "that makes sense" and she would say something, and he'd take her side, too. He said things like "I remember being spanked for doing something that I knew was bad" - I was talking about how spanking can be humilating and emotionally abusive, even if it is not physically harmful. My MIL said "did you feel humiliated?" to my BIL, and he said "I knew what I did was bad, so I guess I deserved it"... but THEN he compared my ds to my nephew, who turns 5 this month and is notorious in the family for being "bad" - he said "DNephew needs to be spanked; my ds doesn't need to be spanked" meaning that the nephew is always being bad, and my ds is never bad enough to be punished. Well, if ever there was "proof in the pudding" maybe that is it. My nephew was weaned early, CIO, crib-tented, spanked, etc. and you know my ds had an opposite upbringing. I wish I had said stuff about how discipline is a word meaning "teaching/learning" and is not about punishment; and about how disciplining your child starts from birth with knowing your child and communicating and listening and so on.

ETA: I also told them how I could specifically remember how I felt when I was punished as young as age 3, and how sad it made me feel and humiliated and angry and betrayed by my mother - even at that age I couldn't understand why my mom wouldn't even try to listen to what I had to say or understand that I was just really sad and remorseful and needed to be loved, not spanked, at that moment. I always told myself that I would never forget what it was like to be a child, so that when I am an adult I would listen to my children. The frustrating thing is, sometimes it's hard to remember to do this when I am losing patience with my dc! But I still try to at all costs! And I have never spanked my dc!

Thanks, Mamas! for all your kind words!


----------



## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

oh, also, about the older generation not wanting to admit that their style of parenting might have been detrimental to their dc in some way: my mom was a spanker, too, but she knows now that it probably wasn't the best way to handle things, and if she could turn back time, she would never have spanked. I don't hold it against her or anyone in that era of parenting, bc that is what they were instructed to do. But I do get annoyed when someone (mainly my MIL) refuses to consider alternative ways of parenting and scoffs anything that is different from how she did it.


----------



## RiceMomma (Jul 23, 2004)

My FIL very often says one of his biggest regrets is that he spanked his children.


----------



## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Mamaduck,
Oh I totally agree that the older generation has some wisdom to it, and the things I think were "wrong" in that era were just taken as the way things are.

I should have given more background with my MIL and me perhaps. She cannot stand much about me to begin with, or the way our family works. We believe in the TCS philosophy, our religion, etc. It all rubs her the wrong way so it's been several years of her blatant disrespect that ive just had enough with. Which is really a shame because, our differences aside, I enjoy listening to her tell stories of the year she grew up, what it was like during WWll, adventures in raising 6 kids, etc. I try to glean the most wisdom from her that I can, and steer out of the topics we cannot ever see eye to eye on. Spanking is just one of those... sigh.


----------



## Krystal323 (May 14, 2004)

interesting....about the older generations and not wanting to admit wrongdoing etc.

My parents never admitted that they did anything close to abuse with me, even insisted that they were'nt "strict enough"....until I became the young mom of a wild wonderful toddler and was having a LOT of trouble refraining from losing my temper and hitting him.









It was then that they finally saw the damage their parenting caused and admitted that there must be a better way...they didn't want their grandbaby to be hit!

Now I'm all the more passionate about nonviolent discipline, and my parents back me up 100%







JMTC...


----------



## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

Boy, I know just what you mean. When my MIL took care of the other grandbabies in the family, she actually had a stick she used on them! It was just for hitting them with!

She told a story once about how one of her other DIL's used to hide the stick from her, but it didn't work.

Boy, if anyone ever did something like that to MY DC, well let's just say I don't think I'd be a very good example as a parent!









MIL is now getting to be too sick and eldery to take care of DS, and I am not glad that she's sick, but I am sort glad that she can't babysit anymore. DS is only 9 months but I have a feeling he's on the cusp of what she would consider "stick age". We would have to have a serious talk, which would be even harder because DH doesn't think spanking is bad.


----------



## sohj (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaduck*
Admitting that they were wrong would be admitting that they messed up...

I was taught at an early age to admit when I was wrong. And my parents did that, too. So do other members of my family.

I think that being able to admit one is in the wrong is part of being an adult. I'm afraid that while I can say that I pity people who cannot admit they are wrong, I have absolutely NO sympathy for them. There is a difference.

And, for the record, my parents were part of (probably) an OLDER generation of parents than many of the women on this board have. I was born in the mid-1960's and they were already 41 and 30. And they thought spanking was WRONG.


----------



## beaconlighthero (May 3, 2004)

I think you did great too. My mom did'nt spank me and I turned out pretty great I really must say.







2

I also think the same way you do, what if he is acting out, because he is getting sick, or is tired, or just needs my attention?


----------



## beaconlighthero (May 3, 2004)




----------



## mahogny (Oct 16, 2003)

My MIL and I also had a "discussion" about spanking. I will say that even though MIL disagrees with most of our parenting decisions, (co-sleeping, ex-bf, no-circ, etc) for the most part, she's respected our decisions.

About 8 months ago, DS spent the night at IL's house so DH and I could go away for our anniversary. DS had a HORRIBLE HORRIBLE diaper rash at the time, it was actually a yeast infection, and the poor guy was in absolute pain!! I left special instructions with MIL about changing his diaper, and about how very exceptionally painful this rash was, and that she really needed to keep on top of the diaper changes while it clears up. I also left her with some Aveno for the bath and some special special diaper cream for the yeast. So, I think I impressed upon her the seriousness of his severe pain from this rash.

So, the next day when we go back to IL's to pick him up, MIL was telling me about how difficult the diaper changes were and everything because of the rash. (Which I had told her to expect - I had explained that during this rash, changing his diaper was a two person job - DH or I had to hold him, while the other one does the diaper change.) So, she told me about how she went to change his diaper, and she started wiping him, he started screaming and running away. So she'd grab him and bring him back, only he'd start screaming and running away again. She said, "Finally, I just smacked his bottom so he'd know that I was serious!"

Holy cow, I was just in absolute shock! I was speechless. My son has been in sooo much pain on his bottom because of this yeast infection, so he's understandably running away from painful diaper changes, and she SMACKS his already unbelieveably painful bottom?!?!? The only thing I said at the time was, "Wow, do you think he was running because his bottom was hurting and the wipes stung?" I said it as if I was really asking her opinion, and not snarky or sarcastic or anything. She said, "Yes, maybe so."

I told DH about it on the way home, and he was livid, but he had no idea about how to deal with it either. Yes, our most important job is to protect our child and we were going to do that without a doubt, but we didn't know how to broach the subject with his parents! They tend to get offended easily, and that's not the result we wanted. We wanted them to be open to our parenting decisions, instead of defensive of their own.

So, for about 2 weeks we sat on it. We didn't see IL's in that time, so of course, DS was never alone with them. Then, out of the blue, I get an email from MIL, saying that she sensed me being upset about the smack, and wanted to explain the situation. So, she explained again about how he was running away during a diaper change, and how he was screaming so much, etc etc.

So, I responded to her. I told her in no uncertain terms that DH and I don't believe in spanking, and that we find other ways to discipline much more effective. But then I also explained that there are times when "discipline" is not needed at all, because there's a special circumstance - like the yeast infection. He was in absolute pain, and diaper changes hurt like heck during that time, but as long as you understood why he was doing what he was doing, it's clear that "discipline" was not warranted in that situation, but understanding and empathy were. I then went on and explained some other things about child development and punishments. MIL knows that my BS is in child development and my MS is in counseling, and that I've worked with MANY children during and since my college years, both as a student and as a child therapist. I didn't put down her beliefs at all, (she spanked her kids) but I did let her know that our child will not be spanked, and I let her know the reasons WHY we don't believe in spanking.

She said she understood, but I can tell she doesn't agree with it. Oh well, her daughter (my SIL) has a baby now, and is already parenting EXACTLY the same way MIL did, so MIL has someone to mentor now.


----------



## Korwynne (Feb 18, 2004)

My Mom and I had this fight while we were there on vacation.. my kids were tired, cranky, hadn't seen their daddy in 10 days and were *acting their age* goddess forbid (at the time 18 months and almost 3).

My mother says to me "I wonder what Lindsey would do if I smacked her on the butt for her behavior". I told her in no uncertain terms that not only do we not spank *NO ONE* is to touch my child.. her response was "well, you may be her mother, but I'm YOUR mother, so I'm damn well going to do what I want to do. I'm the nana and you can't tell me what to do". i told her if she even made a move to do so, we'd pack up and leave, and that would be it. (she's in Oregon, we're in GA) She called me immature, childish, self centered, a spoiled brat, etc.. the kids and I shut ourselves in the bedroom, I explained to Lindsey why we weren't going to spend any more time with Nana that evening... the next day we had to drive to Washington, saw Daddy on the way (he had a layover so we stopped at the airport). I started to tell him that being away from him was impacting the kids and I was glad he was going to have a few hours with them and my Mom comes running over, grabs his arm and whispers some crap in his ear about how unreasonable I am and how she's the nana and she'll spank the kids if she wants to.









He said "I think she's just blowing hot air.. but if she even makes a move to her, you've got room on the credit card for a hotel room"







i love my hubby.


----------



## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Oh Mahogany that is just awful! What a horrible horrible thing for your MIL to do! How insensitive! I'm sorry you had to experience that.

And Korwynne, it must be really hard that your own mother is treating you this way. I am thankful that my mom is not going against what I'm doing, even though she doesn't always agree with it. I think she's just so pleased to have a grandson (he's the only one, so far) that she is happy no matter what I do!


----------



## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

My mother in law said something to that degree as well " I am the grandma and I will discipline as I see fit". I told her that if she crossed the line with my kids (she knows exactly what the "lines" are.. we've discussed it at length) then that would end her relationship with them, period. She knows I am serious too lol.


----------



## canadiyank (Mar 16, 2002)

Wow, the "I am the grandma" thing really sucks. My mom slapped dd's hand once and confessed it to me. At the time I had done that several times (I've since stopped all punishments - it was unjustifiably *my* frustration, I'm not condoning it at *all* but I do understand the frustration one can feel - another reason I chose not to spank - that feeling scares me!







) so I didn't feel like I could say a whole lot, I said something like, "Well, we find other ways to discipline" etc. Mostly my mom walks away now if something comes up, which sucks, but I'd rather have her do that than hit my kid! I'm certainly glad she's not insisting on spanking, though.


----------



## BrettsMama (Oct 17, 2003)

This is one (Of millions) of the reasons I won't ever allow my IL's to watch Brett. *shudder* Except they are more passive aggressive and very disrespectful and I KNOW they'd spank. My FIL once used a hand motion to threaten hitting ds when he was around 9 months old because he didn't want to go to FIL. I exclaimed "OH NO YOU DON'T! You will not EVER lay a hand on my child."


----------



## Evergreen (Nov 6, 2002)

Wow, I am in shock reading this thread. Even my mother who is by no means anti-spanking would never consider hitting someone else's child, evn mine! I am quite surprised how common this is








2 all you sweet mammas!


----------

