# Stop telling women that it's easy.



## Mulvah (Aug 12, 2008)

I get a wee bit twitchy when formula vs. breast milk debates happen and women go on about how easy breastfeeding is, how much easier it is than formula feeding, and how easy it c/would be if you just did "x". I'm *not* doing anything wrong. It isn't easy. Some women have difficult pregnancies, some have difficult births, and some have a difficult time nursing. It seems people are free to discuss, complain about, and dissect the reasons for the first two, but talking about how difficult and unenjoyable it is to nurse is taboo. Why?

When I see my friends pour a little bit of powder into a little bit of water, shake it around, and feed their baby, I can't tell you how much I wish that were me. Breastfeeding isn't easy. Milk blebs aren't a blast. Thrush for the fifth week in a row is not relaxing. Mastitis? Having your nipple bit repeatedly until you bleed? Nope, that isn't enjoyable either. I would take cleaning 10 bottles a day over the pain of any of the aforementioned issues. So, no, breastfeeding isn't easy. We can't all just casually feed in public, we can't all just nurse while we sleep, and we don't all have an easy breastfeeding journey. Please, stop telling mothers this because when breastfeeding isn't easy for them, it is easy to quit.

All of that to say, I do still nurse my baby because I know it is the best choice and I am physically able to nurse. When I look at my toddler, who weaned at 2 years old, I do feel a sense of pride that we made it to two years. I feel like we accomplished something. I feel happy that he still enjoys breast milk from a cup and that he has a natural, albeit young, understanding that breasts are for nursing. However, I can only truly appreciate the nursing relationship we had because it is over.

So, please, stop telling women how easy it is to breastfeed. When someone is struggling, don't tell them how easy it is that they have a 24-hour milk bar, don't tell them how easy it is to learn how to nurse whilst sleeping, and don't tell them how time-consuming it would be to wash bottles. Instead, sympathise and ask how you can help them.


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## CI Mama (Apr 8, 2010)

Amen!










It would be great if we could all just stop assuming that our experience with pregnancy, birth, breastfeeding, parenting, life, you-name-it meant that we can predict what the experience of others will be. Less talking, more listening!


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## foreverinbluejeans (Jun 21, 2004)

Almost all women could breastfeed without significant difficulty. It's not normal or common to have blebs, bleeding nipples, or thrush. I breastfed for 10 years and I never had any problems. No plugged ducts, no low supply, no mastitis, no thrush, nothing.

*Breastfeeding is easy.* It feels good. If it isn't or it doesn't then you know something is wrong.

I've bottle fed other people's babies including my grandson. It is much harder to bottle feed and care for a child when you don't have magic breasts that calm the child.


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

Seriously? It's also not normal to breastfeed your grandson? Does/Did your DIL know about that?


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## foreverinbluejeans (Jun 21, 2004)

I said I bottle fed my grandson. If I had milk I would breastfeed my grandson. It may not be normal in our culture for women to breastfeed other children but there is nothing wrong with a grandmother or aunt or even close friend breastfeeding your baby. It's good for the baby.


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## CI Mama (Apr 8, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *foreverinbluejeans*
> 
> Almost all women could breastfeed without significant difficulty. It's not normal or common to have blebs, bleeding nipples, or thrush. I breastfed for 10 years and I never had any problems. No plugged ducts, no low supply, no mastitis, no thrush, nothing.
> 
> ...


It's awesome that you had such an easy and positive experience breastfeeding. Good for you!

I think you may have missed the OP's point. She is speaking to the kind of support needed by women who do experience breastfeeding struggles. It is not very helpful for someone to say to a woman who is struggling, "Well, it was easy for me, so something must be wrong with you." That just isn't experienced as compassionate or helpful by a woman who is having a hard time.


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## Greenlea (Apr 21, 2010)

Breastfeeding was easy for me. But I completely understand how or why other women have troubles with it. I believe it takes a village to help a woman breastfeed. Honestly.

While it did come easy to me, I had help, I had support. My mother and MIL breastfed so they were able to give me tips and ideas. Not everyone has that support system. Also, many women don't know what's normal when it comes to breastfeeding. While pain in the beginning may be normal, for example, some mothers feel it couldn't possibly be so they stop.

I do applaud the OP for sticking through with it, especially for 2 yrs. Many women would have quit.


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## pek64 (Apr 8, 2012)

I also had problems breastfeeding, but not as many as the OP. Kudos to you for sticking with it!!

My son's sixteen, now, and like most things, the memories of the difficulties faded. Hopefully you, too, will have that.

I think some of the "it's easy" talk is an attempt to encourage the mother to keep going. That kind of talk might backfire, however.


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## jewel1288 (May 6, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *foreverinbluejeans*
> 
> Almost all women could breastfeed without significant difficulty. It's not normal or common to have blebs, bleeding nipples, or thrush. I breastfed for 10 years and I never had any problems. No plugged ducts, no low supply, no mastitis, no thrush, nothing.
> 
> ...


*Almost all women? i would love to see those statistics, really. *I'll echo what another reply said, when you don't take care in reading the purpose of the OP, you risk insulting and fueling the frustration of what was within the first post. And you're saying something very bold without sharing any factual proof of what you stated, which may further contribute to fueling frustration about struggles with breastfeeding. Out of seven of my friends who breastfed or attempted to breastfeed their children, *only one of them* breastfed without any struggles, like latch, mastitis, thrush, sore nipples, or a biting babe. So, in my experience, that would not make your reference of almost all women anything that false. Obviously, I don't set the standard for what is common, but neither should you be stating it.

Back to the OP, I struggled quite a bit with breastfeeding my little one. He struggled to latch for several weeks, which left me frequently attempting a good latch and also pumping to feed my baby and maintain my supply. We dealt with thrush, I had yeast in my breasts, sore nipples, mastitis, plugged ducts...the whole nine that *can *make breastfeeding feel more like torture than the enjoyable experience that I believe it should be and now know that it can be. I dealt with a lot of stress and anxiety after my little one was born, which I am certain contributed to my mastitis. Once I removed the source of stress from my life, I never had mastitis again. Stress plays a huge role in hindering any breastfeeding relationship. So take care to remove it, if you're dealing with struggles while breastfeeding. I have to again agree that nothing frustrated me more than when I heard things like, nothing is wrong, you're just struggling, which thank goodness wasn't but maybe twice. But hurtful words sink it differently than positive ones. I was beating myself up enough already. I did have a good support group and I am so thankful my little one and I are still going strong at 20 months of BFing, but my my my it was difficult. I commend you for sticking with and being an advocate for women who struggle. We need them.


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## JudiAU (Jun 29, 2008)

Sometimes, breastfeeding is, actually, pretty easy. I never had significant issues of any kind, I come from a family where everyone does and always has including the 1950s and whatever, I had excellent support, and experienced friends. I was also encouraged to prepared myself by attending a class and reading a book and given relevant and needed supplies.

I also work full time and ebf + working has NOT been easy but it is doable with a lot of strict practices. Pumping is pretty horrible and I seriously look forward to lighting my pumps on fire when the time comes. And I have never, ever envied a woman using a bottle.

But I never, ever tell women it will be easy. I tell them to prepare so they know good and bad advice and I make housecalls and take emotional phone calls.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *foreverinbluejeans*
> 
> Almost all women could breastfeed without significant difficulty. It's not normal or common to have blebs, bleeding nipples, or thrush. I breastfed for 10 years and I never had any problems. No plugged ducts, no low supply, no mastitis, no thrush, nothing.
> 
> ...


This kind of reply really isn't helpful - I have to ask though, did you even read the OP? It seems to me that you are saying everything she asked people not to.


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## pek64 (Apr 8, 2012)

I think what she may be attempting to emphasize is the "if it hurts, there's something wrong and you need to get help" philosophy.

This subject is awkward for me. I remember the problems I had, and thinking anyone who said it was easy was crazy. With the passage of time, however, that seems trivial, and the advantages stand out more clearly. I'm even tempted to say that it was easy for me, too.

Both sides need to respect the other. We are all mothers, trying to do what is best for our children.


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## Nightwish (Sep 9, 2008)

I would say that most people who say breastfeeding is easy actually mean: hang in there, give it another try, don't give up, there is a light at the end of the tunnel...

If a woman who knows nothing about breastfeeding vs. formula feeding sees a mom pouring a bit of powder into a bit of water and handing baby to dh to be fed, there is a good chance she would say: wow, this IS easy! Why in the world would I breastfeed?

I've had my fair share of plugged ducts, mastitis (dk was drawing blood), but if a doubtful mom (or mom-to-be) asked me, I would say: breastfeeding is easy! Give it a try! Or: give it another day! It will get easier! And you know, when I see a toddler throwing himself on the ground and having a fit, while I can just whip my boob and calm dd down in a second I secretly think: this is easy. (I hope no one jumps on me, I realize there are breastfed toddlers who throw tantrums, but for us, breastfeeding makes a world of a difference.)

I think it's good to look at the intention behind the words, I can honestly say that I haven't met anyone saying breastfeeding is easy just to brag, but more as an encouragement.


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## Greenlea (Apr 21, 2010)

Perhaps "it gets easier" is much better to say than "its easy"!


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## greenemami (Nov 1, 2007)

Oh gosh...I do sometimes tell people that breastfeeding was easy *for me* because I want to counteract some of the horror stories that people hear that may make them hesitant to even try breastfeeding or to give up with the first problem. A pregnant first time mom asked on facebook for baby advice and all the moms were posting about cracked and bleeding nipples, assuring her that it will absolutely positively hurt, etc. I wanted to share my "easy" experience to at least let her know that it was possible! I do try to be sensitive to others who didn't have such an easy time by emphasizing this was just my experience, but it is hard to share that without making at least some people mad.

I'm sorry you have had such a rough experience and I can see how hearing that it is easy makes you want to scream. I have the utmost respect for you for continuing to nurse your baby through all of your nursing struggles-you are amazing!


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## Mama4life14 (Mar 17, 2011)

I totally understand the OP is stating. I had good advice from other Moms, they told me the first few months would be difficult, but once you get the hang of things it's easier than washing bottles and almost forgetting baby's lunch at home.
I remember nursing my 2 week old, still having trouble, and watching other new parents make a bottle for their baby, and I just said to them "wow, that's so easy!" and I told them how hard breast feeding was. I remember the bleeding, cracking nipples, the toe curling pain for the first 15 or so seconds my son would nurse. Those were the extent of the troubles that I experienced and I still thought it was hard. I can't imagine having mastitis and everything else the OP experienced on top.
Now that I think about it, I have told someone that it is easy, but I was out of the water at that point. It WAS easy for me! I did however say that the first few months are hard. But I would say how worth it, it is to stick with it through those tough times. Not only for it being easy, but for the baby.


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## CI Mama (Apr 8, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nightwish*
> 
> I would say that most people who say breastfeeding is easy actually mean: hang in there, give it another try, don't give up, there is a light at the end of the tunnel...


And if that's what you mean to say, than I think it's best to just use those words. Because I think saying "breastfeeding is easy" conveys something else, that perhaps is not intended. It's a question of finding words that match your intention.


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## Mulvah (Aug 12, 2008)

I wasn't really posting this as a "poor me" or "aren't I wonderful?", but I thank those of you who were compassionate and even complimentary. It is nice to hear since it isn't something I ever discuss. I know there are a ton of us out there who struggle through breastfeeding, hating it, and doing it anyway. I hope others who struggle find the support they need.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *foreverinbluejeans*
> 
> Almost all women could breastfeed without significant difficulty. It's not normal or common to have blebs, bleeding nipples, or thrush. I breastfed for 10 years and I never had any problems. No plugged ducts, no low supply, no mastitis, no thrush, nothing.
> 
> ...


Considering the level of intelligence and formal education of my LC, I'll trust her that I'm not doing anything wrong.

You may gain something from listening to people. It is a shame to think this is what people hear if they are looking for support; it does *nothing* to win people for your cause.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CI Mama*
> 
> I think you may have missed the OP's point. She is speaking to the kind of support needed by women who do experience breastfeeding struggles. It is not very helpful for someone to say to a woman who is struggling, "Well, it was easy for me, so something must be wrong with you." That just isn't experienced as compassionate or helpful by a woman who is having a hard time.


Thank you, I agree.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pek64*
> 
> I think what she may be attempting to emphasize is the "if it hurts, there's something wrong and you need to get help" philosophy.
> This subject is awkward for me. *I remember the problems I had, and thinking anyone who said it was easy was crazy. With the passage of time, however, that seems trivial, and the advantages stand out more clearly. I'm even tempted to say that it was easy for me, too.*
> Both sides need to respect the other. We are all mothers, trying to do what is best for our children.


I can certainly understand how that happens and though I don't imagine I will ever feel that way about breastfeeding, I have experienced it with other motherhood-related situations (i.e. potty training).


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## Nightwish (Sep 9, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CI Mama*
> 
> And if that's what you mean to say, than I think it's best to just use those words. Because I think saying "breastfeeding is easy" conveys something else, that perhaps is not intended. It's a question of finding words that match your intention.


I know. But sometimes we just blurt out something that`s meant to be compassionate but is not interpreted that way.

I once read a thread on the adoption forum about what *not* to say to adoptive parents. Or a thread on parenting multiples about what *not* to say to those parents. I would have said half of those things with the best intentions.


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## BeeandOwlsMum (Jul 11, 2002)

Breastfeeding isn't easy. It's hard work. Even if you have no challenges at all, you are still making all the nutrition for another human. Add any difficulty on top of that and it gets exponentially harder.

Perhaps what we should be focused on is that it is worth the work. It's hard sometimes, or it's easy sometimes, but it is worth it.

To dismiss someone's struggle as "if it isn't easy, something's wrong" is bad news. While it may be factually true, it is not helpful. I knew when my dd started clicking and getting gassy when she was 2 week old that something was wrong - that didn't make the following two weeks of LC appts, dr appts, sore nipples, tongue & lip tie clip, forking over $700 when all was said and done, worrying about weight gain, making sure the clips didn't reattach, working on latch, etc etc etc any flipping easier. Knowing something is wrong doesn't lessen the stress or it being wrong.


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## ~adorkable~ (Nov 7, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdinaL*
> Perhaps what we should be focused on is that it is worth the work. It's hard sometimes, or it's easy sometimes, but it is worth it.


just what i was about to say, i struggled to feed twins, not because i had any one issues, i really didn't, i was blessed with amazing supply and healthy babies, but yet we pumped and cried and struggled for 6 months before we got it down, and now at nearly 2 we have other struggles, things change all the time. i have asked myself a thousand times why it is this way or that. but i have never asked myself if i should be doing it.

at some point for nearly everyone it can be hard, if your lucky it gets easier, thru out it all it is WORTH IT!


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## Alenushka (Jul 27, 2002)

i only know one person who nursed without any problems at all. Everyone Else know had at least one issue.

Initially formula was not invented to supplant breastfeeding but because so many moms who had nursing issues were feeding their babies crap like raw milk with e.coil in it, bread mixed in wine or babies just died.

Nursing is hard.

I am glad I did it but I have many issues from sensitive skin to cracked nipples, from mastitis to thrush. I would never say it is easy and it is especially not easy for moms who work outside home. But yes, no one can;t complain about that either because "We all can stay home if we do not buy expensive cars or clothes"


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## pek64 (Apr 8, 2012)

I've heard that formula was invented to do something with the overabundant cows' milk supply; and it was created to replace breastmilk for women working in factories during the war.


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## kathymuggle (Jul 25, 2012)

I had nursing issues with my first. It was a lot of work - and it was not easy. I have never been so drained and tired (I was on a never ending schedule of trying to feed, failing, giving EBM in a bottle and then pumping.) It ended as he aged and we got decent help (which took a number of tries with different LC to get) and he went on to nurse easily for the next 2 years. But the first 6 weeks - not easy. I remember literally chucking a book that spoke on how breastfeeding is easy, natural and blissful across the room.

My daughters nursed easily from day one. Go figure.

I think what is most helpful is honesty - when breastfeeding is going well it is fairly easy for some of us, if it is not going well it might be one of the more difficult you ever do, and you might need help.


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## tiqa (Feb 8, 2012)

My first child I desperately wanted to breastfeed... and couldn't. Long story, but let's just leave it at that. I had no milk for him. None at all. (Found out later it was medical issues... whatever.) I had the breastfeeding advocates tsk tsk at me and make faces because apparently "I just didn't try hard enough, and did I try this, that..." etc. We ended up formula feeding him and life went on.

My second child, I again wanted to breast feed. This time it went by the book. It was a bit painful in the beginning and I got mastitis a few times, but it WAS easy for me that time. Easier than formula, I guess. So... sometimes it IS easy. Sometimes.

So what was different between child #1 and child #2? Was it me? Was I better or more special ten months after my first child was born? No. Did I "learn" more? No. It was luck. Yep, I said it. LUCK. Not skill. Not "educating myself." It wasn't a lactation consultant who saved the day, nor a pump, nor any herbs. It was sheer freaking luck.

I will never judge a woman for feeding her kid in whatever way she does. We will never know the whole story. We will never know the issues she faces, even she might not face them consciously, they might be buried in her brain somewhere. She might be working with no time to pump, she might be a sexual abuse survivor, she might have unsupportive family, she might just be really tired and burnt out, she might have hormone imbalances... WHATEVER.

I *congratulate* women who make nursing a goal and stick to it and put effort into it, in the same way I congratulate someone who runs a marathon. Is everyone a natural athlete? No. Are some people? Yes. Again... that is luck. You can have all the effort in the world and if you have exercise induced asthma (like me) your chances of running that marathon are pretty freaking slim. Whereas you might LOVE running and with minimal effort you can totally run it. But if you're NOT the natural athlete/breastfeeder/whatever, if you WANT to overcome the odds... good on you. Awesome. I'll give you a cookie.  But if not? Eh. Put your effort somewhere else... and don't let other people get you down.


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## PhoenixMommaToTwo (Feb 22, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TCMoulton*
> 
> This kind of reply really isn't helpful - I have to ask though, did you even read the OP? It seems to me that you are saying everything she asked people not to.


Yep. And where exactly are you getting your information, FIBJ?


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pek64*
> 
> I've heard that formula was invented to do something with the overabundant cows' milk supply; and it was created to replace breastmilk for women working in factories during the war.


What war? Formula was "invented" (made commercially available) in the late 1800's. In the time of WWI most people were using raw milk because there had been mass contamination of formula on the shelves. Then, in the 1920's (after WWI) women began using evaporated milk formulas. By WWII, commercially available infant formula (even Similac) had been on the market for a good 15 years.


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## lah7 (Dec 31, 2006)

I found breastfeeding to range from incredibly difficult to pretty easy, depending on which child it was, how old they were, how I felt, etc.

I feel like one of the single biggest disservices we can do as proponents of breastfeeding is to say that it's easy, that it's natural, and that you're doing it wrong if it isn't. Sometimes, the problems aren't a matter of something that you've done wrong, which can be fixed. Sometimes, a child's mouth doesn't match a mother's nipple shape very well. Sometimes, production isn't matched with demand, and sometimes, the emotional impact of breastfeeding isn't something which can be overcome. We can tell moms that if they are having a problem, please as if there's something we can do to help, because a lot of issues can be worked on, but to sit there and rant over and over that it's easy is insulting to other women, inaccurate, and offensive.


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## Kinza (Feb 2, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *foreverinbluejeans*
> 
> Almost all women could breastfeed without significant difficulty. It's not normal or common to have blebs, bleeding nipples, or thrush. I breastfed for 10 years and I never had any problems. No plugged ducts, no low supply, no mastitis, no thrush, nothing.
> 
> ...


This post is really offensive following the original post. Just so you know, telling people their boob issues are not normal, then following it up with your lack of those same problems is rude, and the reverse of helpful.

I'm in agony every time I breastfeed my twins, and your post in no way improved my breast feeding experience. At least the lactation consultants who also didn't help, by the way, tried to improve things.


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## Kaydove (Jul 29, 2010)

OP - I want to say good job for breastfeeding and preserving through the pain. You deserve to be commended and encouraged.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2


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## Buzzer Beater (Mar 5, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *foreverinbluejeans*
> 
> Almost all women could breastfeed without significant difficulty. It's not normal or common to have blebs, bleeding nipples, or thrush. I breastfed for 10 years and I never had any problems. No plugged ducts, no low supply, no mastitis, no thrush, nothing.
> 
> ...


*Breastfeeding Judging people is easy.* It feels good. If it isn't or it doesn't then you know something is wrong.


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## Youngfrankenstein (Jun 3, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *foreverinbluejeans*
> 
> Almost all women could breastfeed without significant difficulty. It's not normal or common to have blebs, bleeding nipples, or thrush. I breastfed for 10 years and I never had any problems. No plugged ducts, no low supply, no mastitis, no thrush, nothing.
> 
> ...


EDITED BECAUSE I WAS ASKED TO.

Nutella!


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## AlexisT (May 6, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pek64*
> 
> I've heard that formula was invented to do something with the overabundant cows' milk supply; and it was created to replace breastmilk for women working in factories during the war.


Not true.

Henri Nestlé invented his formula in the 1870s (he wasn't first, though, Liebig was). It was not the first infant food. There were other baby foods sold, but they were made of starch. Nestlé's motivation was the high death rate of infants. Victorian era doctors advised early weaning from the breast and feeding some pretty awful things to babies.

Evaporated milk and Karo recipes appeared in the early 20th century (evaporated milk was sterile and thus safer than fresh, which could be contaminated or adulterated) and the companies that made it advertised its use as formula. Even in the postwar era, a lot of babies were fed on these formulas in North America--commercial formulas such as Similac were competing with that as much as breastfeeding.

Social changes spurred higher use of formula, but that wasn't why it was created.


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## kathymuggle (Jul 25, 2012)

I agree with FIBJ that if BFing is difficult, something often is wrong.







This would certainly hold true on a medical level - if you get Mastitis over and over again, thrush, etc&#8230;something probably is wrong. I am not touching or judging emotional reasons BFing might be difficult with a 10 foot pole, lol.

That being said, there is no way on earth I would say this to a woman who was struggling with BF. When you are struggling with BF, it is hard. Going on about the natural, easy bliss of BFing when the woman in front of you is on the verge of emotion and physical breakdown is not compassionate or helpful.


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlexisT*
> 
> Not true.
> 
> ...


Yep, yep, yep.

Among other things, many priests (especially in France) taught that a woman had to wean to resume sexual relations with her husband. Because of this stricture, and because of class issues, almost all women except the brutally poor weaned their babies VERY early. The rich and some of the middle classes hired wet nurses, but thousands of babies were weaned to very, very, inadequate substitutes of mixtures of cows milk and grain. What started as the perogative of the elite (sending babies to wet nurses) became what everyone wanted to do (or needed to do; women in cities were working). In 1780, only 700 babies out of 21,000 born in one city were nursed by their mothers. The rest went to wet nurses, where the death rate was astronomical.

The tradition of wet-nursing continued unitl WWI in France, and was ultimately supervised by the government to try to lower the death rate. Between 1874 and 1914, 80,000 babies were placed with wet nurse bureaus, with a 15% death rate (this was half the previous death rate of 30%).

Given those circumstances, its not surprising that the demand for breastmilk subsitutes led to the creation of them, and formula was not somehow invented by dastardly dairy farmers seeking to push their surplus milk on the unsuspecting, happily-breastfeeding populace.


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## amma_mama (May 20, 2008)

Foreverinbluejeans, I have to bite my tongue here in order to not get banned. Your post was so insensitive and offensive that it is hard to know where to start.

OP, I had to give up trying to BF after the first month. I was terribly guilt-ridden during the first month because my boobs would just not cooperate, DD could not latch onto my flat nipples even with a shield, and an hour of pumping got me little more than a few drops. I tried everything that I could within my means and I just could not do it. It is most definitely not easy for everybody. I am still pro-BF, but recognize that it does not always work out to be possible or easy.


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## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

Foreverinbluejeans, that wasn't kind, and has been shown to be counterproductive when encouraging more women to breastfeed.

My province now has a program called 'The first 6 weeks' which focuses on how women and babies need to learn to nurse, as it is not instinctive and may take practice. The point is that because for so many women it gets easier by 6 weeks that they are encouraging people to stick it out that long and see.


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## stiss (Jun 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *~Adorkable~*
> 
> just what i was about to say, i struggled to feed twins, not because i had any one issues, i really didn't, i was blessed with amazing supply and healthy babies, but yet we pumped and cried and struggled for 6 months before we got it down, and now at nearly 2 we have other struggles, things change all the time. i have asked myself a thousand times why it is this way or that. but i have never asked myself if i should be doing it.
> 
> at some point for nearly everyone it can be hard, if your lucky it gets easier, thru out it all it is WORTH IT!


It's only worth it if it doesn't cause excessive distress to the mother. Which sometimes, it does. I had a breast reduction before getting pregnant. With both my kids, breastfeeding involved pumping every three hours around the clock for almost two months, after every feed. Each one of these feeds involved me taping a tube to my breast, dealing with pumped milk and formula in a leaky bag attached to said tube, and trying to convince a fussy preterm baby to latch. I had to continuously wash pump and tube parts in between these feeding sessions that often took an hour or more. That's in addition to all the regular breastfeeding pains and struggles.

With my first, my supply was about 30% at its peak. I cried for months about feeding this baby. I felt enormous guilt when I went out in public and took out a bottle, because it was too much work to do all the above in public. I felt like a failure and hated every minute of those first few months. Was it worth it? I really can't say. I suppose the only reason it was worth it was because I had a better supply (50%) for my second child, and I had more practice with that tube, and the baby was bigger and more accepting of nursing under these pretenses.

I have nice memories of both children and our nursing relationship. I have lots and lots of horrible memories, though. I am proud of myself for persevering, but I am still not convinced it was WORTH it, especially for my first baby. People tried so desperately to reassure me that I was doing a great job, but it wasn't until my second baby that I realized that success in breastfeeding does not have to equal being exclusively breastfed. Success in parenting doesn't have to equal breastfeeding, either. I am completely supportive of breastfeeding advocacy. I think that women need more support (both instrumentally, and through policy) to help them breastfeed their babies. I think that the public needs to understand that breastfeeding is an issue of public health, not just some optional choice. I also think that making informed choices should be coupled with having respect for whatever those choices might be.

I think that judgmental, sanctimonious comments like those posted by FIBJ are the exact opposite of what breastfeeding advocacy needs to succeed.


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

OP, i totally relate. I have 3 children, and the 2nd two were easy peasy to nurse, because i knew how! My body knew how! With my 8mth old born at home, the first thing she did was go for the breast, and she nursed all night long, even though i only had colostrum. It was so easy! It didnt even hurt.

But with my first, a totally different story. I told people the same thing as you, it ISNT easy, it painful, its difficult, im tired! the baby wont latch! I called up a lactation consultant several times in the middle of the night, who would come running trying to help the baby latch, to no avail, screaming baby! i was told the baby was starving! (he was) My poor baby. I tried so hard to resist the EASY solution of giving him a bottle which he gobbled up. My nipples hurt,or they were cracked and bleeding, there seemed to be inadequate supply, i was exhausted, every bone on my body hurt. Blood, sweat, and tears sums up those first couple of weeks.

My 2nd and 3rd babies were homebirths, without drugs. My first was a hospital birth, induced with pitocin. My 2nd and 3rd slept by me the first night, but my first was whisked away to the nursery, and nurses pressured me to give him a bottle because i had no milk They tried to get it by squeazing my nipples which HURT.

Why hadnt someone told me breastfeeding was painful and difficult?? I hated it when people said it was easy, they were just liars i thought, its ll a conspiracy, they wont tell the truth.

But i persevered with the right support. One day, i told my mother, i give up, this is too hard, and my baby just looked at me, and then he latched on, and nursed! (i knew that kid was smart) I cry every time i think about that. I was crying then too, and so was he.

From then on, it was smooth sailing. It just got easier and easier. Then i watched as formula fed babies got their ear infections, and colds, smelly diapers, and their fussiness, and so on and so on. All i had to do was put baby (who self weaned at 5) to the breast. He never got an ear infection, he never got sick. He never had problems sleeping. I just nursed him to sleep. It just got easier and easier.

I too was afraid to nurse in public but my pediatrician said to me, just put him to the breast now, and i did. And form then on, i wasnt afraid (funny, because i dont trust doctors particularly) Sometimes it was hard to nurse a newborn in public, but i just did it, and got used to it. Its 2nd nature to me now, and i just nurse wherever i want.

It might be easier to use a bottle in the shortterm, but after awhile, that would get tiresome.

I am so grateful for the support i got. However, i do think the point should be made that it can be difficult, and that is NORMAL, especially when its your first baby.


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

The other thing to remember is that among primates (which we are) -- parenting behaviors are *not* instinctive. They're learned behaviors, almost all of them.

The drive to "do something" about a crying baby is instinct -- but what we do about that urge is learned, cultural behavior.

Which means that if you didn't grow up seeing women nursing around you, being matter-of-fact about it, demonstrating it by actions every day? You aren't going to "just know how to do it." The mechanics of nursing, the motions, the habits -- all of that is not instinctive, and does not just come naturally to everyone like it's been beamed into our brains when the cord is cut.

Mothers have to learn how to feed their babies. Babies have to learn how to feed. Neither of those things automatically go smoothly, and when there are issues with both, it can be even harder.

Also? to ForeverInBlueJeans? In general, "It was easy for me!!! It should be easy for YOU TOO! Why ISN'T it easy for you??!!?? What are YOU DOING WRONG?" is a complete logical fallacy. Right up there with "My parents spanked me with wooden poles and I turned out okay!" and "They didn't even have seatbelts when I was a kid and I survived!"

Your personal experience does not generalize to the population as a whole.


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## Lucy Alden (Jun 15, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *foreverinbluejeans*
> 
> *Breastfeeding is easy.* It feels good. If it isn't or it doesn't then you know something is wrong.


Seriously!?!!









There just are no words.


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## MrsGregory (Dec 21, 2011)

Hooray nursing mothers!

I personally found breastfeeding easy, as in convenient and natural, but it was painful, and there wasn't a "problem", it was just painful for me. The pain subsided, but, and I think I've mentioned this before on this very board, I was completely distraught and remembering that "If it hurts there is something wrong." until a fabulous nurse told me that intense pain on let-down is totally normal for some people and will subside. I'll tell that story to everyone that will listen. I wish someone had told me breastfeeding might hurt, I could have saved myself several days of intense worry and upset.


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## skycheattraffic (Apr 16, 2012)

Nursing for me is easy. Now. 18 months pp. It was impossible, infuriating, frustrating, painful, drag-the-last-ounce-of-life-out-of-me miserable in the beginning. I had an almost 8lb 41week healthy baby, no tongue tie, no palate problems, healthy breasts, reasonably shaped nipples, not a huge amount of pain, vaginal delivery. DD would. not. latch. She was mucusy, stopped breathing a couple of times and started screaming each time she saw my breast. The nurses on the ward were clueless how to help: they'd grab my boob, grab crying baby and shove them together







. I pumped for ten weeks, bottle fed and started slowly transitioning baby back to the breast. Nothing was wrong, I just had no support of nursing mothers to rely on and no experience. I totally agree with pps that our generation of mothers mostly didn't grow up in a nursing community. It's like trying to learn how to ride a bike when no one in your family knows how to ride one and has never seen a person on a bicycle. I can ask my mom for advice on mealtime, diapering, discipline, etc but she has no experience to help me with nursing. I had to learn how to nurse and how to HELP Dd learn how to nurse too. I will be more prepared with the second one but I feel guilty that DD was my guinea pig. No one told me that initially it can be very hard and that there is a steep learning curve to nursing. Maybe if someone did, I wouldn't have felt so guilty and inadequate.


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## BeeandOwlsMum (Jul 11, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrsGregory*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes! My first DD was 2 before someone told me that their let-down *didn't* hurt. I was flabbergasted because mine always did. Nothing wrong, just have one hell of a let down apparently, but it always hurt. Hurts with kiddo number 2 as well, just the way I am built.


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## tropicana (Sep 11, 2011)

this is obviously a touchy topic.

i have been on both "sides" of the breastfeeding scenario. with my 1st child, it was sooooooooooooooo hard. i truly suffered. for ten weeks. then had a breakthrough, and although she was never "exclusively" breastfed, we went on to nurse long and proud. with my 2nd, i had already nursed through his pregnancy, and tandemed. his nursing was easy and exclusively breastfed.

i will have to say that the two perspectives on this topic both have legitimacy. breastfeeding can be very very easy!! it can also be very very hard!!

we do not live in a breastfeeding culture, so there is the dynamic of that overlaying all of our experiences (the good and the bad).

from the perspective of my first breastfeeding experience, i persevered through a lot of adversity, and a lot of what got me by was the advice i found here on MDC, mainly from women who had successful ("easy") breastfeeding experiences. if you can stay open to it, you can receive a lot of good information, even when it is personally frustrating to hear because you are still in the throes of the hardship.

just sayin'.


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## kayleesmom (Dec 16, 2004)

Sending hugs to all.


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## cynthia mosher (Aug 20, 1999)

Youngfrankenstein, please edit your post to remove the personally attacking words. Many posters have managed to express their strong disagreement with foreverinbluejeans' post without attacking her personally. I'm sure you can do the same. So please edit to avoid receiving an infraction and removal of your posting privileges.


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## ancoda (Oct 17, 2005)

With my first it was horrible. I went to 3 different LC and they could not find anything wrong, but it took months to get decent BF established. With my second baby he would only nurse on one side. We tried different positions and that did nothing. We took him to get adjustments with a chiropractor thinking it was a neck thing, that did nothing to change it. I ended up having to just nurse him on the one side and pump the other side. With my 3rd it was actually rather easy compared to the other two, but really I don't think it had anything to do with me knowing better what I was doing. His birth was easy and he was really a rather easy baby all around.


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ancoda*
> With my 3rd it was actually rather easy compared to the other two, but really I don't think it had anything to do with me knowing better what I was doing.


I wonder if our bodies just figure it out in some way, smooth out the creases so to speak


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## Mulvah (Aug 12, 2008)

I am glad I posted this, as I have enjoyed reading the various perspectives, stories, and advice.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kathymuggle*
> 
> I agree with FIBJ that if BFing is difficult, something often is wrong.
> 
> ...


You just did.


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## CoBabyMaker (Nov 13, 2008)

This thread is really interesting to me. I don't think I have ever heard anyone tell a mother that breastfeeding is easy as a general statement.







I have heard people say (and have said myself) that breastfeeding X child was easy in comparison to Y child but never in a general sense. I do find it easier to have my breasts with me than to pack formula but that's not saying much overall.

DD1 was hard. I still distinctly remember crying to DH in the middle of the night and saying, "This is why! This is why people give up and quit! I know why they do!" The refusing to latch, nipple shields, weaning from the shield, being screamed at every.single.time, the nursing strikes, the reflux, the food allergies. It wasn't easy. I didn't have help because I was so turned off by the hospital LC that I was convinced other people would all do the same thing. I found nipple shields because I had seen them on a random Tyra Banks talk show. That is sad but they saved us. I figured it out on my own and using online info.

DD2 was actually easy, she latched, it was good and it worked. It was surreal.

Anyway, I am surprised that so many women have heard that it's easy. I usually just try to give new/expectant moms information sources and offer support because it CAN BE VERY HARD!


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## kathymuggle (Jul 25, 2012)

nm


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## kathymuggle (Jul 25, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CoBabyMaker*
> 
> This thread is really interesting to me. I don't think I have ever heard anyone tell a mother that breastfeeding is easy as a general statement.
> 
> ...


Yeah, in the real world I usually hear about how hard breastfeeding is. I know several people who were swayed (or said they were swayed) away from nursing because so many people told them horror stories. It is books, brochures and the like that go on about how easy it is. I don't think going on about how hard breastfeeding is, is any better than promoting the idea that it comes naturally and is blissful and easy. Truth is best - it is work, often harder in the beginning, easier for some nursing couples than others, and while you can prepare for it, and do your best to ensure a successful path, you might still run into difficulties.


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

Some difficulties in breastfeeding, such as repeated cases of mastitis, may reflect some health issue. But breastfeeding can be hard be hard for so many reasons. Refusal to latch? Was it that the nurse offered ds formula? Either way, there was nothing wrong specifically with me or my child, and this is a common problem, milk supply goes down as a result, nothing 'wrong' with that, that is the normal reaction to decreased latch on. Cracked and sore nipples? Very normal in breasts that are unused to breastfeeding. I discovered those nipple shields too, and they saved us for awhile. Being woken up in the middle of the night when you are not used to it, and being exhausted, very normal.

The profuse sweat that accompanied let down was something unpleasant that noone warned me about (it was the middle of summer)

I do think that lactivists (im one of them) tend to omit the difficulties for fear of turning newbies off breastfeeding. I remember when pregnant being absolutely APPALLED that i had to breastfeed the baby at least every 2 hours. I silently thought to myself, i dont think i can do this, every two hours?! No way!!!! (as if that was actually the biggest challenge)


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## Rrrrrachel (Jan 13, 2012)

I didn't have any unusual problems, my milk came right in, no mastitis, baby latched mostly ok, etc, and it was STILL really hard for awhile. It does not come naturally, even setting aside all kinds of societal pressures and biases. I love the honesty of the op and women should say it out loud more often.


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

on the same token people need to stop saying how "hard" BFing is. i know that there could be challenges but thats not the norm and BFing should not hurt. i know women who chose not to BF after hearing so many horror stories. i personally find BFing to be easy.


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sharlla*  BFing should not hurt.


It may not hurt when you get used to it, but everything has its learning curve. Its like saying 'labor shouldn't hurt'. Its normal to have difficulties at first, and normal for nipples who are still in training to feel pain when pressed and squeazed without a chance to heal.

Every woman is different though, some women actually orgasm during childbirth.

Maybe its better to be truthful about possible challenges, with the acknowledgement that some women may not have those challenges.

For me personally, pregnancy was a sinch 3x over. Birth was painful both in a hospital with pitocin, at home with a midwife, and at home virtually unassisted since midwife and doula arrived only 10mins before crowning.

Breastfeeding only hurt the first time . But thats me.


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## MrsGregory (Dec 21, 2011)

I think one of the best things women can do regarding communication about breastfeeding is just that; communicate about breastfeeding. I understand the worry that some women will be scared off breastfeeding if they hear enough horror stories. I get that. I was certainly in no huge rush to have a child because of the horror stories I'd heard about pregnancy and labor. So now that I'm armed with the knowledge that for me, let-down is a white hot screaming painful affair for a couple of weeks, am I not that thrilled to breastfeed again? Of course! That sucked. But at least this time I know what I'm getting into. When my daughter is having children, I'll tell her my experience. If she chooses not to go through that pain, who am I to judge her? But I would never tell her it was all magical, and then let her find out the hard way. That seems cruel. We're both women, if only for that reason, I owe her the truth. And for us, the truth is, we struggle hard to birth our children, and it hurts like hell for us to nurse our newborns. I'll also tell her we do it anyway, because we're a lot meaner than we look. Why can't we all just have conversations like that? I'm thrilled for women who find the whole affair easy and affirming. I didn't.


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## Rrrrrachel (Jan 13, 2012)

Women stop breastfeeding early because they think there's something wrong when it's not a piece of cake. It goes both ways. I agree the best thing to do is be honest and open about the wide variety of experiences a healthy and normal breastfeeding relationship can give.


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## pek64 (Apr 8, 2012)

Part of the ease is the generally better health of the infant. Fewer ear infections. Fewer illnesses. And better bonding. At least that was my experience when comparing my child to those fed formula.


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

im terrible at giving advice to mothers who dont breastfeed, because i solved almost every problem with the breast., nutrition, health, bonding, sleep, you name it. Im still pretty clueless when it comes to ear infections. Mothering does seem so much easier down the road when breastfeeding.


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## Rrrrrachel (Jan 13, 2012)

I exclusively breastfed until at least six months, didn't really start solids with any verve until nine months, and still breastfeed at 15 months. Guess what, my daughter still had multiple colds, bronchitis, multiple ear infections, rsv, etc. breastfeeding does not eliminate illness.


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rrrrrachel*
> 
> I exclusively breastfed until at least six months, didn't really start solids with any verve until nine months, and still breastfeed at 15 months. Guess what, my daughter still had multiple colds, bronchitis, multiple ear infections, rsv, etc. breastfeeding does not eliminate illness.


Thats interesting. In my case it seemed to reduce it considerably compared to other kids.

There are always colds that come and go, but they go pretty quickly. Breastfeeding was a Gdsend when it came to stomach bugs.


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## Rrrrrachel (Jan 13, 2012)

Like anything else, it makes life a lot easier or one mom, not for another. These experiences are never universal. Of course there's always the unknown of what would a particular kid have gone through with/without breastfeeding. Maybe my daughter would've gotten more sick more often. Maybe your kid is just lucky and wouldn't have gotten sick much either way. Who knows!


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## transylvania_mom (Oct 8, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sharlla*
> 
> on the same token people need to stop saying how "hard" BFing is. i know that there could be challenges but thats not the norm and BFing should not hurt. i know women who chose not to BF after hearing so many horror stories. i personally find BFing to be easy.


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rrrrrachel*
> 
> Like anything else, it makes life a lot easier or one mom, not for another. These experiences are never universal. Of course there's always the unknown of what would a particular kid have gone through with/without breastfeeding. Maybe my daughter would've gotten more sick more often. Maybe your kid is just lucky and wouldn't have gotten sick much either way. Who knows!


i figured the antibodies in the breastmilk had something to do with it. But anythings possible.


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## Rrrrrachel (Jan 13, 2012)

Sure, but they're not a magic bullet. Lots of kids breastfeed and still get sick. Maybe they're less sick because of the antibodies, maybe they only got five colds instead of ten. When you act like breastfeeding will make your life sooo muh easier braise your baby won't get sick, though, it's kind of a bait an switch.

Breast fed babies IN THE AGGREGATE get sick less than formula fed babies, but there's no guarantee for a particular breastfed baby.


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## kathymuggle (Jul 25, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rrrrrachel*
> 
> Sure, but they're not a magic bullet. Lots of kids breastfeed and still get sick. Maybe they're less sick because of the antibodies, maybe they only got five colds instead of ten. When you act like breastfeeding will make your life sooo muh easier braise your baby won't get sick, though, it's kind of a bait an switch.


 I think breastfeeding is stacking the deck in favour of health. There are no guarantees, but "stacking the deck" is a good enough reason to try.


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## Rrrrrachel (Jan 13, 2012)

Oh absolutely. I wholeheartedly support breastfeeding and think, in general, it is the right choice. I don't think it's easy, though, and sometimes I think the benefits for a particular baby are overstated.


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

Right. Its all about improving the odds, but there are no guarantees with anything.


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## pek64 (Apr 8, 2012)

Too many moms say they breastfeed when they give more formula than breastmilk, in my experience. To me, that's a lie. It makes it seem that breastmilk has fewer advantages because they discount the formula they give. My own sister claimed to have breastfed her three boys. After I had my son, and I asked her for breastfeeding advice, I discovered that she gave formula all throughout the day, and only breastfed at night, and not even right before going to sleep! I had similar conversations with friends and neighbors, where bottles of formula dominated the conversations, but they still called themselves breastfeeders.


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *contactmaya*
> 
> It may not hurt when you get used to it, but everything has its learning curve.


what i meant is if it hurts there is something going on like tongue tie, lip tie, bad latch etc. if dont correctly BFing should not hurt KWIM? ive just heard too many women use this as an excuse to stop trying without addressing why it's hurting. kind of sad


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## Rrrrrachel (Jan 13, 2012)

I don't think that's always the case. It was for me, but I think experiences can vary depending on things like nipple sensitivity and size. Even when latch is right it can be pretty uncomfortable at first.

Then there's the pinching and biting!


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sharlla*
> 
> what i meant is if it hurts there is something going on like tongue tie, lip tie, bad latch etc. if dont correctly BFing should not hurt KWIM? ive just heard too many women use this as an excuse to stop trying without addressing why it's hurting. kind of sad


this is simply not true. You can have a perfect latch, no tie, no thrush -- and it can still be painful at latch for the first few weeks, as your nipples get used to the constant wear and tear.

Telling people that it ONLY hurts if you are doing something WRONG is, in my opinion AND experience, a sure way to shorten many women's nursing experience and put them off.

I hear "experts" and "Lactivisits" repeating the "Done correctly it doesn't hurt" trope over and over and over and over, and at the same time, I hear women saying "It did hurt for the first few weeks, and I had my latch checked and everything checked" over and over and over. I tend to believe the actual experiences of multiple women over the non-evidence-based claims of people who are trying to sell breastfeeding as an experience.

FOR THE RECORD: Neither of my kids ever had any formula. I nursed, pumped at work, did everything it took to do that for them. Both were good nursers from the beginning. Yet it was definitely painful at latch for a good 3 weeks with my first, and at least a week or two with my second. I was afraid something was horribly wrong with my first - I had no previous experience, and all my resources were saying that pain meant something was wrong and I was doomed to failure. Finally someone said "Look, if its just at latch and subsides, a lot of the time that's just normal." And it was, and it got better, and we went on to nurse successfully until he was 18 months old. I'm not someone who was unsuccessful in the long run -- so don't attribute what I say to bitterness, sour grapes, or needing to attribute my Failure as a Mother (tm) to bad advice.


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## pek64 (Apr 8, 2012)

Maybe some women have more nerve endings, and therefore experience pain. Or maybe they are anticipating pain, and feel it as a psychosomatic kind of thing. Either way, it is a good idea to get the latch checked if you experience pain.

And *not* all lactation consultants are equal in knowledge or ability to listen and understand what the mother is describing. And that is regardless of education. It bothers me when a mom has a bad experience because of poor advice. I also agree that insisting there is no pain to someone feeling pain is counterproductive.

Someone should research that newborn nursing pain issue. Telling new moms that it sometimes happens and is normal is best for while we don't know the cause. But being able to remove it would be better for future moms.

Again, it's great to hear of moms who persevered and breastfed their children!


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## kathymuggle (Jul 25, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *savithny*
> 
> I hear "experts" and "Lactivisits" repeating the "Done correctly it doesn't hurt" trope over and over and over and over, and at the same time, I hear women saying "It did hurt for the first few weeks, and I had my latch checked and everything checked" over and over and over. I tend to believe the actual experiences of multiple women over the non-evidence-based claims of people who are trying to sell breastfeeding as an experience.


Maybe it is because "hurt" is such a subjective and qualitative word?

I don't think excruciating pain is normal in nursing - it usually is indicative of an issue.

Mild to moderate discomfort in the first few weeks as you get used to nursing is pretty common.

I think it might be a communication issue as much as anything else - one person says "hurt" and another interprets that as agony. FWIW, I am unlikely to complain of pain unless I am in agony; the word means different things to different people.


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## Rrrrrachel (Jan 13, 2012)

Right. Pain is highly subjective. So we shouldn't go around dictating what's normal to other people.


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## kathymuggle (Jul 25, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rrrrrachel*
> 
> Right. Pain is highly subjective. So we shouldn't go around dictating what's normal to other people.


I agree - but if you are discussing breastfeeding with a new mom, it is helpful to know if the pain is common early pain or agony.

I do think severe pain is not normal and should be checked out, and I think mild to moderate pain in the early days is pretty common. I see no reason both messages cannot be communicated - not just "all pain means something is wrong" or "all pain is normal".


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rrrrrachel*
> 
> Right. Pain is highly subjective. So we shouldn't go around dictating what's normal to other people.


Exactly. And its not necessarily subjective in the way most people are going to now interpret. It's not "Some people have a higher pain tolerance." It's that there are different kinds of pain -- sharp, dull, deep, muscular, acute.....

So for example? In my (admittedly now vague) memory? Labor was really not that bad. Waves of cramps, NBD. At its peak painfulness, I would say that the toe-curling sharp shock of pain as my son latched on was *more* painful than my labor with him.

THat's not to say it was excruciating and made me quit. But since Conventional Wisdom is that labor=the most pain and breastfeeding=no pain unless you're Doing It Wrong -- the fact it was more painful than labor made me worry that something was wrong, when really? Nothing was wrong.


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## CI Mama (Apr 8, 2010)

And I wish we'd just banish the word "normal" from our vocabulary when it comes to pregnancy, birth, and breastfeeding. Whether it's supposed to or not, I think the world "normal" communicates to women "there is one right, good way to do things and if your experience deviates from that way at all, there is something wrong, which means you are *wrong*!" I just see that word messing with people's heads a lot.

There is a range of experiences that women have, and we all want to understand how we fit within that range (and how we can make things better if we're struggling). So words that clarify and illuminate are helpful. Some experiences are common, some are rare. Some issues are indicative of serious underlying health issues, some are not. Some experiences challenge women in ways they weren't expecting. Pain can range from manageable to debilitating.

I find it helpful to share honestly and openly because it helps me see what the range of experience really is, find support and help when I need them, and appreciate what I've got when things are going well. But I try to always keep in mind that I can be an expert in my own experience without necessarily knowing jack about someone else's.


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## kathymuggle (Jul 25, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *savithny*
> 
> At its peak painfulness, I would say that the toe-curling sharp shock of pain as my son latched on was *more* painful than my labor with him.
> 
> THat's not to say it was excruciating and made me quit. But since Conventional Wisdom is that labor=the most pain and breastfeeding=no pain unless you're Doing It Wrong -- the fact it was more painful than labor made me worry that something was wrong, when really? Nothing was wrong.


You don't think you are an exception, though?

I would expect that for the majority of the population, if breastfeeding is more painful than labour something is wrong.

Pain in BFing can be normal, and it can be a sign something is off; BFing can be hard and still normal, but it can be hard and a sign that something needs tweaking.

"BFing is hard and pain in BFing is normal" is no more helpful a message than "BFing is easy and pain means you are doing something wrong."

I get some people do not think all the lactivism messages are helpful, but it is possible for the message pendulum to swing too far the other way as well&#8230;.


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## CI Mama (Apr 8, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kathymuggle*
> 
> You don't think you are an exception, though?


This totally underscores my point. Why the focus on who is "normal" and who is "exceptional"? Wouldn't it be more productive to encourage each woman to speak openly and honestly from her own experience (which savinthy was doing very well, I thought) without having to label? Then the role of the advocate could be to say 1) here's the broad spectrum of experiences that women have and 2) if you're struggling, here are some things that have helped women who have also struggled. And just take the whole normal/exceptional judgment out of the equation.


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## kathymuggle (Jul 25, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CI Mama*
> 
> This totally underscores my point. *Why the focus on who is "normal" and who is "exceptional"?* Wouldn't it be more productive to encourage each woman to speak openly and honestly from her own experience (which savinthy was doing very well, I thought) without having to label? Then the role of the advocate could be to say 1) here's the broad spectrum of experiences that women have and 2) if you're struggling, here are some things that have helped women who have also struggled. And just take the whole normal/exceptional judgment out of the equation.


I like your post (I like Savinthy's too, I am just trying to sort things out).

I think the focus on what is normal and abnormal is to try and help women figure out when to seek help.

I do think it is possible for pain in breastfeeding to be both normal and abnormal. I think both messages are messages that should be given out.


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## pek64 (Apr 8, 2012)

It is important to know what is average in terms of expectations for moms-to-be. If I based my decision on the story of my sister-in-law (it was excruciating, that's why I quit!), I would never have even *tried* breastfeeding. And pain should prompt a review by a more knowledgeable person, to rule out an actual problem!


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## CI Mama (Apr 8, 2010)

Yes, let's find the language that encourages women seek help and get support, I am all for that! I just think we do it best if we avoid value-laden words like normal/exceptional, easy/hard, right/wrong. (As much as I hate the word "normal", I hate the word "abnormal" even more! Who wants to be "abnormal"?).


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## Rrrrrachel (Jan 13, 2012)

I don't think knowledge of average is particularly important, when there's not guarantee a particular woman's experience will be average. I think it's more important to know the broad range of normal, so that when you have an experience that isn't average you don't quit thinking something's wrong but work through it knowing your experience is still inthe range of normal.


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## Rrrrrachel (Jan 13, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CI Mama*
> 
> Yes, let's find the language that encourages women seek help and get support, I am all for that! I just think we do it best if we avoid value-laden words like normal/exceptional, easy/hard, right/wrong. (As much as I hate the word "normal", I hate the word "abnormal" even more! Who wants to be "abnormal"?).


Ita


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## rachelsmama (Jun 20, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CI Mama*
> 
> Yes, let's find the language that encourages women seek help and get support, I am all for that! I just think we do it best if we avoid value-laden words like normal/exceptional, easy/hard, right/wrong. (As much as I hate the word "normal", I hate the word "abnormal" even more! Who wants to be "abnormal"?).


How about this?

http://www.first6weeks.ca/


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## Rrrrrachel (Jan 13, 2012)

What a neat site!


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## pek64 (Apr 8, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rrrrrachel*
> 
> I don't think knowledge of average is particularly important, when there's not guarantee a particular woman's experience will be average. I think it's more important to know the broad range of normal, so that when you have an experience that isn't average you don't quit thinking something's wrong but work through it knowing your experience is still inthe range of normal.


What is average is extremely important for a first time mother to use to decide if she needs help! If she bases her decision on your story or what you have written here, she may continue with a poor latch, and that may impact her milk supply enough that she switches to formula. It's pretty obvious that pain means "get a more expert review" to determine if there is a solvable problem! Even if it doesn't affect supply or her decision to continue, why should she be in pain if it can be corrected? Just so you can have a fellow sufferer?

You seriously remind me of my sister-in-law, who has a "everyone should experience what I experience" attitude about pretty much everything.


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## CI Mama (Apr 8, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pek64*
> 
> What is average is extremely important for a first time mother to use to decide if she needs help! If she bases her decision on your story or what you have written here, she may continue with a poor latch, and that may impact her milk supply enough that she switches to formula. It's pretty obvious that pain means "get a more expert review" to determine if there is a solvable problem! Even if it doesn't affect supply or her decision to continue, why should she be in pain if it can be corrected? Just so you can have a fellow sufferer?
> You seriously remind me of my sister-in-law, who has a "everyone should experience what I experience" attitude about pretty much everything.


I think you've totally mis-read her comment, but I know Rrrrrachel is more than capable of explaining her own position, so I'll leave it at that.

Your suggestion that she'd encourage women to avoid seeking help simply so that she can have a "fellow sufferer" is really insulting. I don't see anyone here advocating for keeping women in the dark so that they will suffer.

As for the "everyone should experience what I experience attitude"...well, that can work in all directions. I think it's a pretty normal human thing to assume that what we experience is "average" and transferable to other people. That's why it's so important to include multiple voices in the conversation, to broaden our perspective.


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## pek64 (Apr 8, 2012)

She *is* influencing, whethere she realizes it or not, women who read these threads and do not post, or ask questions. And since she has not expressed agreement that a new mom experiencing pain should seek help, she is implying no help is needed. And the comment where I liken her to my sister-in-law is far more insulting. But at least my comments were finally recognized! Shame I had to insult someone, though!


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## Rrrrrachel (Jan 13, 2012)

I actually had a pretty easy time breastfeeding, pain wise. Hardly any pain at all, but some discomfort. Barely even needed nipple butter (until I started pumping, that is). I absolutely wish all women had the same breastfeeding experience as me.

But I know they don't. I know my experience is only one variation of normal. I think society spends a lot of time trying to convince women their body is broken, and I don't want to perpetuate that by pretending mine is the ONLY version of normal. That's all.


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## foreverinbluejeans (Jun 21, 2004)

Controversy! Women who are displeased with their breastfeeding experience have so much negative emotion and feel free to share so much.

There is no scientific evidence that there is something wrong with telling women that breastfeeding is easy. If you go to kellymom.com you will find the articles "Breastfeeding: It's So Easy" and many others. Kellymom.com is a well-respected, evidence-based web site. Breastfeeding advocates believe that to improve rates we need to normalize breastfeeding and part of that is telling women it is easy. It is common for women in the US to find motherhood difficult no matter how they feed their babies.

It's not really going to help the babies of the women that have weaned if we say breastfeeding is difficult. We may help more babies get a chance at breastfeeding if we say it is easy. Remember the women that come online to talk about breastfeeding may be an accurate sample of the typical experience.


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## kathymuggle (Jul 25, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *foreverinbluejeans*
> 
> Controversy! Women who are displeased with their breastfeeding experience have so much negative emotion and *feel free to share so much.*
> 
> ...


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *foreverinbluejeans*
> 
> Controversy! Women who are displeased with their breastfeeding experience have so much negative emotion and feel free to share so much.
> 
> ...


it's really not helpful to not be upfront and honest either. My experience was horrendous the first time around and it was due to the RAH RAHing around me and everyone telling me the pain I felt was NORMAL. And it wasn't at all. Just massage that out and you'll be fine. I wasn't. And really that almost ruined it for me. I felt let down by my community of BFing mothers. I really did. I knew nothing about it and wanted so badly to do it. And really I consider my 60lb weight loss in 6 wweks and severe postpartum depression to the failure I felt about breastfeeding.

I continued to BF and did so for my second bb, but I will NEVER NEVER NEVER tell a woman that she's just doing it wrong or lie and tell her it's so natural it's easy. I would want them to know all of it. Knowing everything would not have stopped me from bfing but I do think I would have gone in earlier when the pain was too much. I wouldn't have felt like a failure and I would have gone through so much pain.


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## Katie8681 (Dec 29, 2010)

The reason kellymom.com IS such a great resource is that it acknowledges the many difficulties you can run into with breastfeeding. It also offers solutions. I used the site all the time when my son and I were learning how to breastfeed (yeah, both of us had to figure it out!) and never felt that it was telling me breastfeeding was necessarily easy.


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rrrrrachel*
> 
> Like anything else, it makes life a lot easier or one mom, not for another. These experiences are never universal. Of course there's always the unknown of what would a particular kid have gone through with/without breastfeeding. Maybe my daughter would've gotten more sick more often. Maybe your kid is just lucky and wouldn't have gotten sick much either way. Who knows!


Me too, but you know that's because our kids were vaxxed, right?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sharlla*
> 
> what i meant is if it hurts there is something going on like tongue tie, lip tie, bad latch etc. if dont correctly BFing should not hurt KWIM? ive just heard too many women use this as an excuse to stop trying without addressing why it's hurting. kind of sad


With DD, she had latch issues, a lip tie, and I was pumping and syringe feeding her. It hurt like hell.

With DS, he latched perfectly 5 minutes after birth, had no lip or tongue tie, and his latch was checked by two different LC's. AND it hurt like hell.

I tell all my pregnant mama friends who are first time moms three things: contractions are not the same thing as "bad menstrual cramps", crowning feels like your vaginal opening is being tattooed, and breastfeeding might hurt like hell for the first month or so.


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## loveandgarbage (Feb 5, 2008)

Breastfeeding definitely HURT my nipples and both my kids' latches were perfect. After a few weeks the pain lessened but during times of teething it came right back. It was really frustrating for me to hear that BFing wasn't supposed to be painful at all... it made me feel like I was doing something wrong even though I wasn't, my nipples just weren't used to that kind of touch.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Adaline'sMama*
> 
> Me too, but you know that's because our kids were vaxxed, right?
> 
> ...


GAWD, I was just thinking about this. I thought I had to pee and that my lady corner was being dismantled all at the same. RING OF FIRE!!! However when the nurse told me I didn't have to pee I had to push I felt pretty relieved because that burning was HELLISH!


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## LitMom (Mar 6, 2012)

I heard the reverse actually. Tons of horror stories and very little "it was fine/easy" before I had my eldest child. Thankfully, for me, it was easy. I think it's fair to say that for some women it *is* easy. For some women, it's really hard. And for many, it's somewhere in between. I have no problem acknowledging this. If it's hard or painful, you should have it checked out to see if there's anything that can be done. Sometimes there isn't, as other posters have said. Many times though, there are things you can do to make it easier. It doesn't mean you're doing it "wrong," it's not a test that you can pass or fail. It just means the positions can often be adjusted to feel better. Just like clothes, or bras can be adjusted.

I'm happy to offer help when people want it. And I'm happy to offer support when people want it. But while I think nursing is great, if you don't wanna nurse, (or if you want to but it's too hard and the help's not helping you, and you decide you don't want to any more), then... don't nurse. I'm not you or your baby, so what business is it of mine?

I'll keep telling women that it was very easy for me, but that's not universal. If it's painful or hard, get it checked out by an LC or LLL leader, to see if adjustments or tweaks can be made to make it more comfortable. And that I found it very valuable to me and my children. But I don't think anyone should feel forced to nurse.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

I think we scared a woman out of nursing during a LLL meeting. Somone said, "I'm not going to lie, it's tough." We were trying to be honest about some of our hardships. I heard this woman say, "I thought I'd breastfeed, but now hearing all these problems, I'm really rethinking it."

We all have different thresholds and tolerances. With my first, it hurt a lot in the beginning. I went online and said, "Please tell me this gets easier." People said, "Oh yes, it gets easier!" That is exactly what I needed to hear. Now it didn't stop completely hurting for months, and I knew she had a bad latch, but it wasn't that painful, it was just like a pinching feeling. With my second, when things were going right, I knew then how bad things had been with my first.

Now my children are 13 and 9, I haven't nursed them in years. Being a mother is hard. I would say that I would have liked people to tell me that, but I wouldn't. I was going to experience it myself. I didn't want to hear the horror stories of birth either. Most women don't. I definitely think women need to hear that it's a challenge, that it's tough. Eventually if it isn't working for us, if we don't feel the challenges are worth it, we'll move to another way of feeding.

Before I had my first, I was mostly worried about it not working. I grew up in a family of formula feeders, I wasn't sure if it really was possible in some part of my mind. And it was possible, but it wasn't easy, and I remember thinking at one point that I had one month down and only 11 more to go, and I was so ready to be done. But then it got easier around 9 months or so, so I kept on. I've had to bottle feed many of my younger relatives, and I didn't like that either. In fact, it was part one of the reasons I wanted to try breastfeeding. My one niece cried all the time. I remember getting up in the middle of the night with her because I couldn't get my sister to wake up. I gave her a bottle, but then I had to pace the floor with her to get her to go to sleep finally. Her father paced the floor with her for hours every night. And then later, when she had her first baby, the formula caused this rock hard stomach with distention, and that wasn't easy either. My niece, however, loved bottle feeding much more than breast, so she moved to that and never looked back.

I can understand the need for the OP's post. It's kind of a vent coupled with a strong statement implying that breastfeeding mothers do tell everyone breastfeeding is easy. Then the second poster makes her own strong statement in contradiction, saying that it *is* easy. I understand how dismissive that must feel, but I think this illustrates the point well that every experience is different, and it can be easy for some, it can be really challenging for some. I think we have to acknowledge that and tell people that breastfeeding as a biological function may not go smoothly, there may be problems, it may be challenging, it may open up a lot of feelings you didn't know you had. But I think there are always pay-offs for the troubles.


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## Mulvah (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Viola*
> 
> I can understand the need for the OP's post. It's kind of a vent coupled with a strong statement implying that breastfeeding mothers do tell everyone breastfeeding is easy. Then the second poster makes her own strong statement in contradiction, saying that it *is* easy. I understand how dismissive that must feel, but I think this illustrates the point well that every experience is different, and it can be easy for some, it can be really challenging for some. I think we have to acknowledge that and tell people that breastfeeding as a biological function may not go smoothly, there may be problems, it may be challenging, it may open up a lot of feelings you didn't know you had. But I think there are always pay-offs for the troubles.


Whilst I agree with a lot of what you wrote here, I think you're missing that the third poster said it is easy and feels good and if it isn't easy and doesn't feel good, you are doing something wrong. That is a completely different message than simply sharing an experience. That was a declaration to all breastfeeding mothers and it is helpful to no one. That said, I recognize that breastfeeding is easy for some and I think that's wonderful. I had two amazing, fairly easy labors and deliveries. I would never assume everyone had my experience and if they didn't, they did something wrong or didn't do something right.


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## ~adorkable~ (Nov 7, 2007)

I feel like one of the big points is here is to say:

It can be really easy, sometimes even from day 1;it can be a struggle at times, even after many months;

either way, its a learning process and rarely your fault.

Above all it's important to have both technical and emotional support, at every stage.

It's worth it,

we're proud of you.


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## MichelleZB (Nov 1, 2011)

There's no one magical thing you can tell all women that will be the right thing to say in every case! For instance, my sister-in-law just had a baby and was having a lot of trouble breastfeeding. It always seemed like there was this or that problem; nothing was going right; she was doing it wrong; the baby was doing it wrong. They were on the point of giving up, and her doctor said, "Well, you know, for some women, it can be really hard," which is exactly the WRONG thing to say.

I got one of my friends, who's a lactation consultant, in her house and they just had a lie down on the couch. She basically needed to be told that the baby was fine, that there was a wide range of "normal" ways to nurse, that both of them just needed to relax and let it happen and not worry about what other people said or thought. She needed to be told it was easy! And all of their "problems" just melted away.

Sometimes being told it's easy *is* the right thing.

But not every time.

I'd say take it on a case by case basis!


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## nj2az2007 (Nov 2, 2012)

YES!!!

Finally someone who feels the way I do.

My co-worker and his wife just had a baby, and they go on and on about how "easy" their baby is and how "easy" bfing has been.

I met his wife, and when I told her I had a really hard time for the first month, she completely agreed, and told me how overwhelmed she felt.
WTF?! Why do people do that? IT's ok to say it's challenging and horribly, horribly HARD WORK. but work every single second.

I see breastfeeding as a labor of love. No it's not easy, no I can't say my boobs feels great or look great, but i know it's what's best for my daughter.

Thanks for the great post!


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## nj2az2007 (Nov 2, 2012)

Well said


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

Never trust the husbands version


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## 1babysmom (May 22, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *~Adorkable~*
> 
> I feel like one of the big points is here is to say:
> 
> ...


I love this approach.

I did have an overall pretty easy experience breastfeeding all of mine and through many different variations (through pg, tandem, triandem, etc), compared to what many mamas face. BUT I would never tell anyone that "it's easy" because I know it's not for everyone, and I would HATE HATE HATE someone to give up because they thought they were doing something wrong because it WASN'T easy for them.  I definitely would approach it with a positive attitude, but a realistic one as well. I just tend to stick with the "it's totally worth it" phrase. 

That said, situations can also change at any stage, any time along the way. Like for us, we did it with zero troubles for a 2.5 years and then about a year into my tandem experience we got thrush, and then we had it off and on for THREE YEARS from that point on (8 months straight when DS was born).


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## SweetSilver (Apr 12, 2011)

I just took the moment to peek in on this thread, and I have just read the first post. I'll come back to the rest bit by bit but I just needed to reply.

Mulvah, even after almost 8 years since I began nursing, and 6 years since my first daughter was weaned, I am in tears reading your post. It was that hard. Everything short of mastitis that can make nursing difficult happened for me and my first child. And I'm still crying about this. I'm done nursing, and I still am crying about this. DD wound up with allergies while EBing, and I didn't recognize it because nursing was already that bad, that unpleasant, that frustrating. It started on the day she was born and only got worse.

I had no idea how many problems I had with my first daughter until my second daughter latched on like a vacuum and nursed away. That easy? I'm sure I cried then, too. I know I was in pain of a different sort because she nursed so hard my nipples were sore and cracked for nearly 2 weeks.

I just can't believe how much my experience affected me. That it is that close to the surface, still.

I'll read more.


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## Quinalla (May 23, 2005)

Breastfeeding for me was hard at the beginning and it also hurt (not OMG hurt, but significant) at the beginning too which in talking to women I know is pretty normal. Once I got past the first month, yes it was easier than bottle feeding for me as I had no issues really. When I went back to work FT, it would have been much easier not to pump, that was work to do that especially since my supply was always tight (damn efficient body!), but it was worth it.

I 100% agree that I wish there was more sympathy and help offered than just sort of a casual brush off when women have problems breastfeeding. And the expectation that everything will be sunshine and roses is not realistic for most women, at least at the start. Sometimes it is easy from the start, but IME that is the exception. More support and less platitudes would go a long way. I know if I hadn't done my research and had my awesome online support, I would have quit BFing early as what my doctors and nurses and whatnot had to offer me was just the typical "Breast is best!", but no real clue how to navigate problems.


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## Wolfman (May 2, 2008)

I have the answer from the milkman


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## SweetSilver (Apr 12, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *foreverinbluejeans*
> 
> It is much harder to bottle feed and care for a child *when you don't have magic breasts that calm the child*.


Bolding mine. This post has been picked into a million pieces, but this is what is so frustrating for me. I only got my Magic Breasts for child #2, who even named them. We had a good nursing relationship and it was, indeed, easy (excepting a toddler smacking her on the head...)

But those breasts were not magic for my oldest. She would start screaming and keep screaming through the let down (big let down... all over the place of course because she was screaming). I could only nurse her once I got her to sleep (and lying down). Touchy supply issues. Shortish arms, largish breasts that made holding her securely difficult (and discovering, quite embarrassingly that Boppies are made for mamas with 24" waists). And nursing made my legs twitch and my nerves all frayed. It was not relaxing at all--and forget sleeping while nursing. Not sure why I'm wired that way, but there it is.

It was hell. Yes, there was something wrong, and I sought help from people who would know. "You're doing fine", (LLL) or "What makes you think there is a problem?" (LC). Bad advice also from my "trusted" ARNP (who made me worry about her weight and the worry made my supply drop because it was that touchy. But, "why do you think that?" from the LC).

The help I received was no help at all. I had no internet. *And I had no Magic Breasts*.

Looking back as an experienced mama, I see that she had weak muscles, I had flat nipples. She had trouble getting a letdown from me, and then....whooooosh! She had a slight overbite. She was easily "put off", meaning one little movement and she was done nursing (and...screaming!). Years later, the dentist said she noticed dd swallowed "wrong". Yes, she had allergies too that I didn't pay attention to. But I had received help, and everyone said things were "fine". I knew they weren't fine.

Any normal person in my shoes would have given up, but I didn't. I often think that I did the right thing, nutritionally, for my daughter. But I wonder whether we would have had a better relationship had I bottle fed her. She has allergies, but tolerates soy. I wonder whether her belly would have been more full (because she usually stopped nursing out of frustration, not from fullness) whether she would have had fewer eating difficulties as a toddler (she didn't learn to associate food with hunger until she was 4.5yo, probably due to pain issues in infancy), whether her extreme neediness would be muted.


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## Mulvah (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SweetSilver*
> 
> I just took the moment to peek in on this thread, and I have just read the first post. I'll come back to the rest bit by bit but I just needed to reply.
> 
> ...












Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SweetSilver*
> 
> Bolding mine. This post has been picked into a million pieces, but this is what is so frustrating for me. I only got my Magic Breasts for child #2, who even named them. We had a good nursing relationship and it was, indeed, easy (excepting a toddler smacking her on the head...)
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing. I am really comforted by what you wrote, specifically the bolded. I have had this problem with both of my children and though it is possible they both had sensitivities to dairy, I am beginning to wonder whether I am just wired differently than many (most?) women.

Lastly, you wrote, "I wonder whether we would have had a better relationship had I bottle fed her" and that is my current struggle. I wrote on this very forum about the lack of bond I had with my first baby (now toddler) because breastfeeding was such a struggle. We did eventually bond, but it took a while. I bonded much easier with my second baby because I knew what joy a child was from having my first, but I still feel twitchy when nursing and I do not enjoy it. I often wonder if this does or will impact our relationship and it breaks my heart. I wonder if it is really worth it.

Anyhow, thank you for sharing your story.


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## ~adorkable~ (Nov 7, 2007)

on just that point of having a better relationship by NOT feeding at the breast, i can see that being the case for some folks. neither of my twins got super good at nursing till they were 6 months, so i did lots of pumping and bottle feeding, so i can tell you that theyr are ways to bottle feed that leads to more or less bonding, just like everything and i think that you can get amazing closeness and wonder as you sit and cuddle a baby and attentively feed them a bottle, yes absolutely. ou can get skin to skin, they can still gaze up at you and for many who struggle, it can be even a much more peaceful time, where you can totally concentrate on giving to your baby and not maybe fretting on what is being taken or put on you.

i loved feeding directly from my breast once we got there and yes i was heartbroken by our early issue, but i know i loved watching them eat and grow and get full, no matter the form


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## BeeandOwlsMum (Jul 11, 2002)

I, too, have a nerve in my foot that pings when I nurse on the right side. And one that pings in the roof of my mouth when I nurse on the left. You aren't the only one who has some funky nerve connections.


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