# Would you be comfortable with this?



## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

A few months ago my 5 year old asked to take the train by herself. I told her that I wasn't comfortable with that but we could discuss it again after she turned 6. After all, she was never turning 6, right?









Her 6th birthday is in a few days and I was thinking about her request again and I think I have come up with a solution I am comfortable with.

We live near a train station that is one stop from the end of the line. I thought I could send DH ahead to wait at the other end. I would put her on the train with my cell phone and have DH meet her on the platform at the next town. It is a 3 minute train ride in a safe area. Since it is the end of the line, there is no way she would miss her stop.

Oh and she takes the train with me several times a week so she knows how to behave and what to expect on the train.

Would you be comfortable with that scenario?

eta: I forgot to mention, we live in Switzerland where trains a big part of life.


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## lach (Apr 17, 2009)

I would be concerned about someone calling CPS because a little kid was alone on a train. I can imagine safety officers waiting at the next station, and when they see your DH having some questions for him and possibly taking this to a higher authority.


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## SubliminalDarkness (Sep 9, 2009)

It doesn't sound like a good idea to me, and frankly, I don't see the point.


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## Auntie Sapphire (Nov 12, 2007)

Has she brought up the subject again now that her 6th birthday is near, or are you just thinking about it on your own?

I'm an auntie, not a mama, but I think 6 is still too young for this. Would you let her wander around in a store out of your sight at this age?

*If* she is still asking for this, maybe the two of you could play at her riding the train "alone" by each sitting in a different part of the train car - you could still be watching her every second, but she could pretend she's having! an! adventure!


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## pianojazzgirl (Apr 6, 2006)

I have a 6yo and I would not be comfortable with her doing that. BUT I live in Canada, not Switzerland, where it would be very VERY unusual to see a kid that age by themselves on a train, not to mention we never take the train here (besides the Metro which is very crowded and I have run into enough situations that made *me* feel uncomfortable that my kids will not be riding it alone until they are much older). Where you live do kids often take the train by themselves?


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## Daffodil (Aug 30, 2003)

I'd feel quite comfortable with that, if I didn't think people would be alarmed to see a 6 year old riding alone. I don't know what's considered normal in Switzerland. Here, I think there would be a big risk someone would freak out and yell at the parents, or worse. But I think that's about the only risk. It sounds like a pretty safe scenario.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

I don't think I'd be comfortable with that. But then, my 6 yo doesn't even like to ride the school bus filled only with kids from school - so it's hard for me to imagine putting him on a train by himself. For a 3 minute ride, it seems like a hassle just to do for fun (with you at one end and DH at the next stop).  But if it's something she is really looking forward to, I guess I might consider doing it just once. But then, will she want to take the train for longer amounts of time and more frequently? How are the other passengers, generally? Not sure how your train is in Switzerland, but I wouldn't put my kids on the bus downtown w/o me b/c there are drunks and inappropriate things that go on. I'm totally assuming your train is not like that, but if trains are a huge method of transportation in your city, I guess I am comparing it to busing/subway systems in other places.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lach*
> 
> I would be concerned about someone calling CPS because a little kid was alone on a train. I can imagine safety officers waiting at the next station, and when they see your DH having some questions for him and possibly taking this to a higher authority.


I really really doubt that safety officers would make it to the destination station within the three minutes of the train ride.

I would be comfortable with this for a 6 year old. I've always considered it important that my kids are comfortable using public transportation, I consider it a very important life skill.


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## HollyBearsMom (May 13, 2002)

I lived in Switzerland I would think you and your daughter would be fine. Trains are such a normal way of life.

Do the trains still have actual have conductors? If so maybe check in with them when your daughter boards? That way if another adult "freaked out" the conductor would know it was ok.

Or maybe she would agree to ride in one car while you rode in another?


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## SilverFish (Jan 14, 2010)

i think if it's something she wants to do, it would probably be fine. i wouldn't bother bringing it up unless she asks again, but seriously, what could possibly go wrong in that scenario? i might not send my 6 year old solo downtown on a regular basis, but a one-time experience with so many safegaurds, i think she'd appreciate it!


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## urbangoddess2 (Feb 17, 2011)

I can't say I'd be comfortable with putting my kids on the train alone (they're 8 and 11), but you know your child and the safety situation of the trains.


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## Owen'nZoe (Sep 7, 2005)

We do not have trains here for this to work, but I would do it if we did and my child wanted to.

I guess our equivalent is walking to the grocery store a few blocks from our house. My 7 year old likes to go a different way from me for a couple of the block sometimes. That little bit of independence is such a huge confidence builder, and I think it would be the same with your daughter. Also, if you were ever to get separated from her on the train, it would be nice for her to have had some practice going alone, so she can remain calm and get back to her home station (or whatever your plan would be for handling that situation).


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## AllisonR (May 5, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HollyBearsMom*
> 
> I lived in Switzerland I would think you and your daughter would be fine. Trains are such a normal way of life.


This. I think it is hard for some people who are not used to such a scenario, plus a whole other culture to be able to see the situation clearly.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Owen'nZoe*
> 
> We do not have trains here for this to work, but I would do it if we did and my child wanted to.
> 
> I guess our equivalent is walking to the grocery store a few blocks from our house. My 7 year old likes to go a different way from me for a couple of the block sometimes. That little bit of independence is such a huge confidence builder, and I think it would be the same with your daughter. Also, if you were ever to get separated from her on the train, it would be nice for her to have had some practice going alone, so she can remain calm and get back to her home station (or whatever your plan would be for handling that situation).


And this. Since it is your DD that wants this, and she brought it up again now that she is turning 6, I would say she is interested and able, and as the pp said, it can be a great confidence booster. I also let my 4 yo and 6 yo go a different way to the park than I do, or run home to get their bikes.... because these small steps now are what allow them to explore their world and grow in confidence, knowing I am right there - in this instance taking a different route, but we will be meeting in 5-10 min. We have trains here and if my 6yo insisted on the scenario, I would do as you are suggesting - let him on stop a and have DH waiting at stop b. And no one is going to be getting mad. They might stop and ask "are you ok or lost" and he would say "no, my dads at the next stop" and they would say "OK" and carry on. In fact this has happened to us. DS bikes ahead of DD and me, but he has to wait at the busy intersection. So while he is waiting he has twice been asked by other people if he wants them to guide them across the street or whatever, and he just points us out, saying he is waiting for us. I tend to think most people are this way, not instantaneously jumping right from assumption to calling the cops. You know your kid, her personality. Go with that info.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

oh! maybe that could be one of her birthday surprises. that would be AWESOME!!! take her to the station on her bday and see if she wants to do it. or maybe ask her on her bday morning and then plan the day accordingly.

i'd be totally fine with dd knowing who she is. i'd also have been ok at 5 since dd has an informed freaker and she would not freak easily.


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## acdmama (Feb 15, 2011)

No way. I wouldn't do it. Six years old is too young to be on her own without supervison. Period.


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## HollyBearsMom (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acdmama*
> 
> No way. I wouldn't do it. Six years old is too young to be on her own without supervison. Period.


Can you explain why? 6 years old is such an arbitrary number. Why not 6? Once child maturity level at 6 could be more than another at 7. I am really curious to understand your POV.


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## AllisonR (May 5, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acdmama*
> 
> No way. I wouldn't do it. Six years old is too young to be on her own without supervison. Period.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HollyBearsMom*
> 
> Can you explain why? 6 years old is such an arbitrary number. Why not 6? Once child maturity level at 6 could be more than another at 7. I am really curious to understand your POV.


Harsh acdmama. I don't think flat blanket statements are useful for anyone. Maybe it depends on the child, the environment, their personality and life experiences...

I was a somewhat flaky, impulsive child, so this would not have been an option for me at 6. Then again, my parents didn't give me breathing room to be on my own, so I could develop some maturity. It was a combination of personality and environment.

My DS is 6, is very rule-oriented and mature. And I have given him the environment to explore his world independently, with more freedom of movement and responsibility over time. So he would be ready to do this now. Again, a combination of personality and environment.


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## KCMichigan (Jul 21, 2009)

I would find out legally what age is allowed and take it from there.

I know that many states (in the US) have a set age to be left home alone, I would use that as a rough guide and then factor in child maturity and situation (day/night/cost/familiarity, etc).

I also would make sure the train staff (if there is one) knew and could keep and eye out.

Also know that once you do allow her to ride alone, you will face her asking to do it more and more often so make sure you are comfortable with it.

No, I would not let my child ride our city buses at 5/6 alone- I probably would pick an age around 10 and have set rules/places/times as well and encourage buddy travel until they are older.

But in a different culture, it may be the norm and safer than in our area.


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## acdmama (Feb 15, 2011)

OF COURSE every child and every situation are different. It's not a risk I would be willing to take. I don't think it's harsh to suggest that our job as parents is to keep our children safe. There is a difference between "independent exploration" and young children being completely on their own. I would not be willing to risk my child's safety and it's naive to think that nothing could happen. Several of the suggestions DO make sense, letting her pick a different seat on the same car so she has the "adventure" bit while still having a parent with her. IMO, it sends the wrong message, that at 6 years old you don't need a parent with you.


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## HollyBearsMom (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acdmama*
> 
> OF COURSE every child and every situation are different. It's not a risk I would be willing to take. I don't think it's harsh to suggest that our job as parents is to keep our children safe. There is a difference between "independent exploration" and young children being completely on their own. I would not be willing to risk my child's safety and it's naive to think that nothing could happen. Several of the suggestions DO make sense, letting her pick a different seat on the same car so she has the "adventure" bit while still having a parent with her. IMO, it sends the wrong message, that at 6 years old you don't need a parent with you.


But what you said was:

Quote:


> No way. I wouldn't do it. Six years old is too young to be on her own without supervison. *Period*.


Why 6? *Specifically?* You weren't saying *my* 6 year old isn't ready. You said 6 years old-period.

Also who are you sending a "message" to? Your child? We are not talking about forcing a child to do something they don't want to do nor are we talking about abandoning her. We are not talking about leaving a 6 year old in the car so the mom can get her hair done or leaving a 6 year old at home alone for hours at a time. We are not talking about sending a child who isn't it ready and has not shown signs that she is ready.

We are talking about a 3 minute train ride where her mom puts her on the train and her father picks her up. This same child has been riding this train already, this train is regular part of her life. This not a parent forcing her child off to ride a strange train in a strange town alone.

The message the OP is trying to send is "how can I empower my child to do what she what she wants to do and yet still be safe". She wants her daughter to hear "I trust you and have confidence in you but I also want you to be safe". Isn't that a wonderful message for a child whether the OP choose to do it or not?


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## les_oiseau (Apr 9, 2010)

No way. If she had an older cousin, say 13 yo, I might let her go with her cousin. Including the precautions of Dad at the other stop, etc. But a 6yo by herself, no way.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acdmama*
> 
> OF COURSE every child and every situation are different. It's not a risk I would be willing to take. I don't think it's harsh to suggest that our job as parents is to keep our children safe. There is a difference between "independent exploration" and young children being completely on their own. I would not be willing to risk my child's safety and it's naive to think that nothing could happen. Several of the suggestions DO make sense, letting her pick a different seat on the same car so she has the "adventure" bit while still having a parent with her. IMO, it sends the wrong message, that at 6 years old you don't need a parent with you.


It sends the message that at 6 you don't need a parent with you for a 3 minutes train ride when one parent puts you on the train and the other meets you 3 minutes later at the destination. Not an unreasonable message, in my opinion, and one I would have no qualms about passing to my kids.

Realistically, what do those who feel this is unsafe think is likely to happen to the child in public on a train in that 3 minutes?


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## HollyBearsMom (May 13, 2002)

C'mon Choli!









There could be a child molester on that train and a lot can happen in 3 minutes!

A deranged man (or woman) could expose themselves to her

The train could CRASH or BLOW UP!!!

Lightening could strike!!!

She could suddenly get sick and throw up and choke on her own vomit

I could go on and on!


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## Hey Mama! (Dec 27, 2003)

If it was as you described then yes I would be ok with it.


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## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

I live in NYC where there are both greater metro commuter trains and inner-city subways. My DD is 4.5 now, and is very savvy with regard to how trains work, where to get off, platform safety, etc. That being said, I'd be less inclined to let her ride the subway alone than one of the high speed commuter trains. The commuter trains seem to have a lot of conducter oversight whereas the subway is an often crowded and precarious place. Generally the subway is safe for a normal adult human being, but I've been riding it long enough to know that people can be inconsiderate and rude, as well as just "out to lunch" mentally speaking. Because of DD's size and inability to adequately defend herself against the press of the crowd, I wouldn't feel comfortable allowing her to ride alone until a few more years from now. A lot of kids travel by subway to school, but they are almost always in pairs or groups and they tend to be in 8 year to 17 year range.

The commuter trains are a different story. They tend to be spacious and a bit more genteel (sp?) and there are conductors traveling through the cars constantly. Travelling alone from one stop to another with parents/guardians on each end? Yes, I could see that happening and be okay with it.

Actually, I don't know if there are rules requiring that children under a certain age be accompanied on trains here in NYC, but I do know that strangers would freak out about seeing someone as young as six traveling alone. Despite all the madness here, people do exhibit a bit of outrage about certain things like this. I know that an automatic response for me would be to raise my eyebrows. It is just not common to see someone around the age 8 or under traveling by themselves.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

can you asses your child? forget what the norms are.

but just look at your child and see what they can achieve.

it is funny isnt it, that we push for independence as babies and when they are raring to go we say uhmmm no stop. you cant do that yet.

if i wasnt tied by legal issues and a coparent my dd would have a lot of freedom to do things by herself.

for instance since 6 she has been riding the bus independently with me "miles" away from her. she has crossed roads (stop sign - semi busy road) two blocks away from me as we walked to the bus stop. she has been left alone at home (duplex) with a neighbour being informed at that age for half an hour. gosh somedays i'd even come back and find her still in the same place lost in what she was doing. at 8 she has been home for 2 hours alone (with neighbors being aware). she is a careful child and knows what to do. once she begged me to let her stay longer and i did. what did i return to. my child admitting that was too long. she was scared. nothing was up and she was sewing, but the silence in the house for 3 hours got to her. now me telling her wasnt enough for her to believe it. she had to discover that herself. and now she knows.

some children need independence more than others. mine is one of them. we get into my college campus and dd walks to the study center alone (she's been doing that since she was 7) while i go to class.

i am sorry, but i find we are too molly coddling our children - esp. those who want to do it and are totally capable of it. if dd was born in a 3rd world country she would be working earning money for the family (which kinda she has done by helping her daddy's friend who broke her arm - did the dishes, did laundry and raked the leaves in a giant backyard).

it isnt the safety factor that concerns me. it is the freak out factor. how dd will handle under stress. she has had opportunities and proven to me she can keep a calm head - actually better than i can.


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## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

This whole thing started because DD overheard me telling someone that I thought she was really good at navigating the train system here. I thought at the time and still do that if she got separated from me in Zurich, she could get the train home. Obviously I don't want that to happen but I am glad that she has the knowledge if she needs it (G-d forbid).

The idea of picking a different seat than me is good but she's already done it. I usually take DS in the Ergo but if I have a bunch of shopping to do, I take the stroller which has to stay just inside the train doors. I don't like DD standing up when the train starts and stops so I send her to a seat. She has chosen to sit upstairs (double decker train) a couple of times and for 1 stop, I let her.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Daffodil*
> 
> I'd feel quite comfortable with that, if I didn't think people would be alarmed to see a 6 year old riding alone. I don't know what's considered normal in Switzerland. Here, I think there would be a big risk someone would freak out and yell at the parents, or worse. But I think that's about the only risk. It sounds like a pretty safe scenario.


There are kids a couple of towns over that commute one train stop to school starting at around the age of 8. They generally go in a group but I've seen solo kids too.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Drummer's Wife*
> 
> I don't think I'd be comfortable with that. But then, my 6 yo doesn't even like to ride the school bus filled only with kids from school - so it's hard for me to imagine putting him on a train by himself. For a 3 minute ride, it seems like a hassle just to do for fun (with you at one end and DH at the next stop). But if it's something she is really looking forward to, I guess I might consider doing it just once. But then, will she want to take the train for longer amounts of time and more frequently? How are the other passengers, generally? Not sure how your train is in Switzerland, but I wouldn't put my kids on the bus downtown w/o me b/c there are drunks and inappropriate things that go on. I'm totally assuming your train is not like that, but if trains are a huge method of transportation in your city, I guess I am comparing it to busing/subway systems in other places.


No drunks during the day, only Swiss grandmas. The trains are used by people commuting to work and other towns for shopping, etc. The trains are very clean and safe.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acdmama*
> 
> No way. I wouldn't do it. Six years old is too young to be on her own without supervison. Period.










I am already in trouble with DD's German teacher because I won't let her walk across town to her weekly lesson by herself. I think taking the train 1 stop is less dangerous than taking the train underpass, crossing 2 streets, and cutting through a high school basketball court. The teachers here encourage the kids to walk without parents starting at age 4.5. DD usually walks home by herself but that is because we live 50 feet (and no streets) away from her school.

xposted with a bunch of people. It is a commuter, suburban train, not a subway. (An S-bahn for those who've visited Zurich)


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lalaland42*
> 
> 
> 
> ...










oh dear. i think i am living in the wrong country. dd would have worshiped her teacher for suggesting that.


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## *bejeweled* (Jul 16, 2003)

No way, No how. Would I send a million bucks in plain view unsupervised on a train? No way, No how.
And I'm sure your DD is as priceless as mine.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

My initial reaction was that I absolutely would. Three minutes to one stop on a train that won't stop for anything else seems like no big deal. After thinking about it however I think you need to take into consideration how easy it is for a small child to get lost in a crowded train station. I wouldn't worry about my child not making it to the stop or anything happening on a three minute ride, but I would worry about not being able to connect with her at the end of the ride. You can't tell by looking at someone who is clean and safe and who isn't. It would be nice if we could because then our kids would never be in danger. The most unsafe people often look very normal and safe.


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## mommajb (Mar 4, 2005)

I would think about the precedent you are setting for her. It could be a helpful, empowering precedent or it could go te other way.

FWIW, My oldest son could have handled it just fine I think but my middle daughter was not ready/prepared at that age.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *meemee*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I would have worshipped the teacher for suggesting that. I wish more people had that attitude in the US.


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## acdmama (Feb 15, 2011)

Clearly you're being sarcastic. We all hope nothing bad would happen, but every horrror story you hear in the news starts with "I just turned my back for a second" Every scary scenario is unlikely, but not impossible. Doesn't mean your kid needs to sit at home in bubble wrap, but it does mean tough choices.


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## acdmama (Feb 15, 2011)

Sorry, previous post was meant to respond to this.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HollyBearsMom*
> 
> C'mon Choli!
> 
> ...


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## Owen'nZoe (Sep 7, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *choli*
> 
> I would have worshipped the teacher for suggesting that. I wish more people had that attitude in the US.


 Agreed!


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## acdmama (Feb 15, 2011)

6 was not an abritrary number selected by me, it is the age of the child in question. I am disturbed by the attitude that "if your child wants to" should be the deciding factor. If your kid wants to go out on a boat without a life jacket, is that okay? Even good swimmers can panic in open water. Kids need boundaries and the adults resposible for them need to make tough decisions sometimes. EVERY 6 year old (9 year old, 12 year old) has SOME level of immaturity and does NOT have the decision making skills of an adult. That's why they don't move out and get their own apartments at those ages.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HollyBearsMom*
> 
> But what you said was:
> 
> ...


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## oaktreemama (Oct 12, 2010)

In the scenario you describe-absolutely. I think it is critical that we weigh each situation and decide. As a PP said-the NY subway? No. But a Swiss commuter train filled with grandmas? Yup.

I will not make decisions based on the hyper sensationalized media discourse that dominates our culture. The media thrives on always protraying worst case scenarios instead of the millions and millions of safe interactions we have every day with the people around us.

OP-I would do it in your shoes. You have clearly weighed the risk benefit analysis and your daughter's maturity. I applaud you for recognizing her abilities and giving her the chance to do something so "grown up."


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## CrazyCatLady (Aug 17, 2004)

In that situation, I would be OK with it.

It really all comes down to the kid and the situation on things like this. My sister and I were very mature as kids and were doing things on our own (taking buses, staying home alone, walking to places, etc) from very young ages. My dd is six and not only isn't ready for anything like that, she has no desire lol. She doesn't seem to crave freedom or independence in the ways that I did.

Hope your dd has fun OP. Sounds like a great potential birthday/turning six present.


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## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oaktreemama*
> 
> In the scenario you describe-absolutely. I think it is critical that we weigh each situation and decide. As a PP said-the NY subway? No. But a Swiss commuter train filled with grandmas? Yup.
> 
> ...


I agree with this, especially the bolded part. I think too, when having this type of discussion, that we (as in generally) should recognize that risks are not the same across the board. Not to be catty, but there are true risks in some locales and almost no percentage of risk in others. We could discuss into infinity the "what ifs" and slim possibilities thereof, but it all comes down to a subjective analysis of the child, the place, the timing and other individual circumstances.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

I'd be fine with it. Parents in Europe are much less paranoid than American parents. I highly doubt anyone would call the authorities, because they wouldn't see this as unusual! The scenario sounds fairly safe to me -- gets on with mom watching at one station, gets off and meets dad at the other. My 6 year old is apart from me for a lot longer than 3 minutes and I don't worry. Gasp! I let her go to the neighbor's house around the corner and she doesn't have to call me when she gets there.

I think it's much safer to give your child very small increments of freedom like this at 6-7 than to realize at 10 that they haven't had any of it. 10-12 year olds are much easier to prey on if they don't have any skills for navigating the world or for trusting their own instincts.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

This is a curious thread to me because I understand the cultural implications. I've lived in Europe quite a bit (including southern Germany, which, no offense to the Swiss, is actually pretty similar, culturally) and I'd probably let dd do this if we were still living there. And I lean toward the *over-protective* side, so take that in to account.

In the US, though - no way, no how. Even at 9, socially savvy, and with great common sense... I still wouldn't do this in the US. It's a completely different animal we're talking here. In Switzerland (in which I've spent a fair amount of time), and with the circumstances, I think I would have been comfortable with MY dd doing this at 6 years of age.

The interesting thing is that in Europe (and well, around the world, actually), a lot of kids have to take public transportation just to get to school. I often saw young children (usually with a friend, not often alone, though) in their little uniforms, on their way to school on the S-Bahn in Munich. I don't think they were 6, but definitely they were 8 or 9.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acdmama*
> 
> 6 was not an abritrary number selected by me, it is the age of the child in question. I am disturbed by the attitude that "if your child wants to" should be the deciding factor. If your kid wants to go out on a boat without a life jacket, is that okay? Even good swimmers can panic in open water. Kids need boundaries and the adults resposible for them need to make tough decisions sometimes. EVERY 6 year old (9 year old, 12 year old) has SOME level of immaturity and does NOT have the decision making skills of an adult. That's why they don't move out and get their own apartments at those ages.


There is a huge amount of difference between the decision making ability required to sit for 3 minutes on a train, and that needed to live independently, so that's not a valid comparison.


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## madskye (Feb 20, 2006)

My DD will be six next month, and she could probably handle it. I would definitely talk to the conductor and let him know what was happening. He would probably make sure that she got off at the next stop, in that case, and assume some responsibility for her safety. And honestly, this will probably open a can of worms, but I would bet that he'd consider it part of his job to do so. Much like if your child goes on a plane trip solo, which could also happen at this age.

I'm not sure I would do it, though, to be honest. I don't have huge issues with it, but I do know that sometimes DD will beg me to stay in the car while I run an errand, and when I come back out (a minute later) she will be in tears because she changed her mind. I wouldn't want that to happen on the train, you know? She's pretty mature but sometimes she lets you see just how little she actually is.

The other reason why I'm not sure that I would let her ride the train one stop at this age is that there just doesn't seem to be any reason for it other than curiousity? And I think it would inconvenience the conductor a bit. How about, riding the train together but sitting apart? So she can drink her coffee in peace?


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## HollyBearsMom (May 13, 2002)

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *acdmama*
> 
> 6 was not an abritrary number selected by me, it is the age of the child in question. I am disturbed by the attitude that "if your child wants to" should be the deciding factor. If your kid wants to go out on a boat without a life jacket, is that okay? Even good swimmers can panic in open water. Kids need boundaries and the adults resposible for them need to make tough decisions sometimes. EVERY 6 year old (9 year old, 12 year old) has SOME level of immaturity and does NOT have the decision making skills of an adult. That's why they don't move out and get their own apartments at those ages.



But you won't say WHY? You said 6 year old period. Why not a 6 year old? What is your reasoning? What could happen to a mature and ready 6 year old that wouldn't happen to an immature 7 year old? An eight your old?
Are you really comparing a 3 minute train ride with a parent on each end to living independently?









Did you read my posts? Some of the other posts? It is not about sending a child just because they "want to". We are talking about a child who wants to and a parent who is evaluating their readiness. Clearly this is a concerned parent who is weighing the risks.involved with the benefits (confidence, empowerment, etc.

Quote: this is what I wrote:


> *We are not talking about sending a child who isn't it ready and has not shown signs that she is ready.*
> 
> We are talking about a 3 minute train ride where her mom puts her on the train and her father picks her up. This same child has been riding this train already, this train is regular part of her life. This not a parent forcing her child off to ride a strange train in a strange town alone.


Who knows? The child themselves may change their mind once given the option and the scenario is laid out for them. My 9 year old is desperate to be left alone when my husband and I go for walk in the park behind our house or when I run to the grocery. He has been begging since he was 7. However every time I walk him thru the "readiness" test he himself changes his mind and admits he is not ready and I agree that he is not. But I do I take him seriously each time he asks. I listen to why he wants to, I acknowledge his growing maturity, We discuss the "what ifs". One of these times he is going to know he is ready and so will I. At that time we will do a tiny test run (like the 3 minute train ride) and then go from there building up the time alone. I want *him* to feel confident and secure as much as I want to feel confident and secure.


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

Yeah, sure. I would. In the circumstance you described, absolutely, and it wouldn't worry me a bit. I have a six year old, and I don't agree that she's too young to be unsupervised. She spends quite a bit of time roaming the neighborhood, unsupervised, and I am very confident that she is safe. She walks to her school bus stop every morning, and walks home, too. She can also be left alone in the house, as long as I am no further away than maybe in the neighbor's yard. Independence is something a kid needs practice with-- opportunities to learn, and make mistakes in relatively safe circumstances. It doesn't just appear suddenly when a child arrives at a certain approved age. And I think the situation you describe is a very safe opportunity to experience some independence in a controlled situation.


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## sarahquinn (Nov 29, 2010)

I'm from Chicago and public trasnportation is also a big part of life there but I cant remember riding alone until about 12. In your situation it's very unlikely that somthing would happen to her but if somthing did you know you would never forgive yourself. idk what i would but consider that after this one time she might want to do it again and again without these special percausions. Then what will you do?? If you do go through with it mabey hav someone jump on the train with but out of sight like in the car behind just to be safe. If not help her find other, safer ways to explore her independance


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## acdmama (Feb 15, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lalaland42*
> 
> Her 6th birthday is in a few days and I was thinking about her request again and I think I have come up with a solution I am comfortable with.


However you decide to celebrate, I hope your daughter has a GREAT birthday!


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## redpajama (Jan 22, 2007)

Absolutely. I think it sounds like a fine idea.


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## mybug (Oct 7, 2006)

Wow! Hot topic! Actually kind of freaked me out. Six is no where even closely, remotely, under any circumstances an acceptable age in my very strong opinion! In the US, there are laws about how old your child has to be to be left alone at home let alone on a public transportation line. Where I live, it is 8 years old at home for up to three hours. I would not personally do this with my children but to think of them in a public situation like a train?? No way ever in a million years. Six may sound arbitrary but laws in the US don't much care for what we think our kids are capable of until they are older. If it were to happen here, CPS could surely get involved. Granted, I am sure that there are safer places in the world than we have here (I actually got lost once in Switzerland, hopped on a train and figured it out with the help of a friendly adult, when I was 11!) but if she wants to do it just to say she did, I say why bother. Would you really let her do it as a common occurrence? If it is safer in Switzerland, that is great. I am curious why American mothers are shocked that anyone would be opposed to it when it is not even legal here?? Teach her a new skill like knitting or dialing a phone if she needs to be independent.


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## ElliesMomma (Sep 21, 2006)

i haven't read all the replies. but have you checked with the train company? in the U.S. i believe they have rules regarding when a child is old enough to ride the train themselves. if so, this would be my first reply to the child's request.


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## ElliesMomma (Sep 21, 2006)

oh, and i thought of another reason to NOT do this without having someone ON the train know she is unaccompanied -- what if there is a significant delay? problems on the track, another train hits a pedestrian, etc. for that normally 3 minute train ride, she could wind up sitting alone on that train for HOURS. it can happen.


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## Owen'nZoe (Sep 7, 2005)

Velochic -

What is it about the US that makes you say "no" here when you might say "yes" there? Is it because most kids here have less experience using public transport? Or because our public transport in many places tends to be used by sketchier people? Is it the public transport part that would make you say no, or the independence part?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> 
> In the US, though - no way, no how. Even at 9, socially savvy, and with great common sense... I still wouldn't do this in the US. It's a completely different animal we're talking here. In Switzerland (in which I've spent a fair amount of time), and with the circumstances, I think I would have been comfortable with MY dd doing this at 6 years of age.


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## Owen'nZoe (Sep 7, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acdmama*
> 
> 6 was not an abritrary number selected by me, it is the age of the child in question. I am disturbed by the attitude that "if your child wants to" should be the deciding factor. If your kid wants to go out on a boat without a life jacket, is that okay? Even good swimmers can panic in open water. Kids need boundaries and the adults resposible for them need to make tough decisions sometimes. EVERY 6 year old (9 year old, 12 year old) has SOME level of immaturity and does NOT have the decision making skills of an adult. That's why they don't move out and get their own apartments at those ages.


I don't think this is a fair comparison, though. Learning to ride a train by one's self is a life skill. Riding on a boat without a life preserver is not.


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Owen'nZoe*
> 
> Velochic -
> 
> What is it about the US that makes you say "no" here when you might say "yes" there? Is it because most kids here have less experience using public transport? Or because our public transport in many places tends to be used by sketchier people? Is it the public transport part that would make you say no, or the independence part?


I can speak for myself-- for me, it's neither. It's the general level of acceptance in the society for children being alone in public. My biggest concern would be whether the people around the child are likely to be disapproving and contact the authorities.

I don't believe the child would be more safe in Switzerland; I would put my child on a train in a similar situation, here, and feel perfectly safe about it (as described by the OP-- a few minutes on the train, with a parent at each station.) Rather, I think that here in the US we are more likely to wind up in trouble with family services authorities.


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## McGucks (Nov 27, 2010)

Nope, I wouldn't feel comfortable with this. At minimum, I would send an adult friend of mine to watch her like a hawk (you don't have to tell your DD about that plan). I understand it is only a 3 minute ride. I also understand that it could take less than 3 minutes for a monster to do something horrible.


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## Owen'nZoe (Sep 7, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Llyra*
> 
> I can speak for myself-- for me, it's neither. It's the general level of acceptance in the society for children being alone in public. My biggest concern would be whether the people around the child are likely to be disapproving and contact the authorities.
> 
> I don't believe the child would be more safe in Switzerland; I would put my child on a train in a similar situation, here, and feel perfectly safe about it (as described by the OP-- a few minutes on the train, with a parent at each station.) Rather, I think that here in the US we are more likely to wind up in trouble with family services authorities.


 I can totally see that, Llyra. For me, I hesitate letting DS do certain things here that I'm pretty confident he could do himself because a) we live in the suburbs, and our neighborhood is like a ghost town. If he were to get into trouble, heaven forbid, it is unlikely anyone would be around to see/help, and b) if someone were around to see, I'm not confident an adult would go over to check on him because people are so hands off or scared or whatever about talking to kids they don't know here. Like you said, they'd be more likely to go in and call CPS than actually help.

That said, I still give my son opportunities to assert his independence, because I think it is important.


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## MamaMunchkin (Feb 3, 2011)

Dear OP,

Is it your DD's bday yet? Have you decided what to do?

I sense that you're not 100% comfortable eventhough it's something that's acceptable in Switzerland? Do you have any particular concerns in mind?


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SubliminalDarkness*
> 
> It doesn't sound like a good idea to me, and frankly, I don't see the point.


I agree. Her safety is way more important than independence at this age.


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## dawncayden (Jan 24, 2006)

I'd be comfortable with my 5 year old doing that (we are in Canada) my only problem is that it is not the norm here and the police would probably come. I love finding ways that he can be independent and feel comfortable on his own.


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## dawncayden (Jan 24, 2006)

I think you need to be 8 to ride the train by yourself here (and by train I mean skytrain/subway)


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

At 6 years old my son would not have been ready to do that (he's 7 1/2 now and still isn't).

Would you consider letting her do it if someone you knew (a family friend or relative) was on the train with her (even if she didn't know they were there) to keep an eye on things? She could feel independent and you could still know she was safe.


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

My initial response was NO WAY, but then I realized that you are in Switzerland and I"m sure your train situation is very different from the few experiences that I've had in the U.S.

Someone above mentioned flying. I flew from Ohio/New York state to Florida several times alone starting at the age of 6. I can't remember if I had layovers, but probably. Back then though, I think flying was different. People still dressed up to do it (according to my Mom's rules) and I think flight attendants were more often ask to help a child flying alone. Now with all the "no frills" I don't know how those requests are taken.


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## pianojazzgirl (Apr 6, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hoopin' Mama*
> 
> Someone above mentioned flying. I flew from Ohio/New York state to Florida several times alone starting at the age of 6. I can't remember if I had layovers, but probably. Back then though, I think flying was different. People still dressed up to do it (according to my Mom's rules) and I think flight attendants were more often ask to help a child flying alone. Now with all the "no frills" I don't know how those requests are taken.


It's my understanding that here, at least (in Canada), they no longer allow unaccompanied kids below a certain age (I think it's something like 12).


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## AZMel (Feb 23, 2011)

I think you are the only one who can assess her maturity level and whether she is ready or not and I think it is your choice as a parent. With that being said, I would not allow my six year old to travel on a train alone. Crimes often happen when there is opportunity and even if a child is very mature mentally, they are likely physically too small at the age of six to defend themselves.


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## MamaPalooza (Dec 12, 2010)

I don't think it's a big deal in Switzerland. I was there a few years ago and its not like going on the metro in Washington DC where I live. But you never know who is on that train. I say stick with your idea and send her one stop but have a friend watching her from the end of the train. Just to be on the safe side. Or go over scenarios of unexpected things that could happen, and when you both feel comfortable with how she replies, send her on her way.


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## AllisonR (May 5, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Owen'nZoe*
> 
> Velochic -
> 
> What is it about the US that makes you say "no" here when you might say "yes" there? Is it because most kids here have less experience using public transport? Or because our public transport in many places tends to be used by sketchier people? Is it the public transport part that would make you say no, or the independence part?


I'll answer, though it is a generalization. Because kids here are given more freedoms and opportunities to develop independence, from an earlier age. You could even say starting from birth, when I could park the pram outside a store while my baby was sleeping and hop inside to buy something. If my baby woke up crying, someone would just come in the store and say "hey, baby crying in pram outside." I'd go right out and get her. If young kids are outside playing by themselves, people think it is normal. If I am sitting at the playground and my 4 yo says she wants to go home and get her bike and bike back here, I say OK and stay at the playground talking with the other parents. Now if my child said she wanted me to come with her, of course I would! But I assume she can, she wants to do it herself, and these small steps allow her to develop confidence in herself and her capabilities.

So kids that desire independence have had practice. Lots of it. Practice gives them the confidence to want more responsibility, and to be able to handle it.

We are not talking leaving a 4 or 6 yo at home for 5 hours by themselves. Or on a 5 hour train ride where they had to be responsible for buying a ticket, changing trains.... This would probably be very sad for the child. Or stressful. Or both. But when children desire to do things on their own, it is great to have the freedom to allow it.


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## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

As for the life vest, in my world people of all ages wear life vests on boats. My family is a boating family and that is just a safety issue. There will be a day when DD takes the train all by herself and if we are still living in Switzerland, it will probably be before she is 13. She takes the train to go to ice skating lessons and swim lessons now. I am sure she will want to go with her friends and without her mom.







I just want her to start out small with baby steps and work her way up to going to skating all by herself or with her friend.

Oh and a couple of people mentioned getting lost at the station or forgetting her backpack. In Switzerland each train line arrives at the same platform each and every time. The town that DD would take the train to only has 2 tracks through the town and no real "station" and since it is the end for this train line, the train pulls off to platform 3, lets everyone off and sits for 10 minutes. DH would meet her on platform 3 and I could even tell him which car she'd be on because the train only runs with 3 cars during the day. If she didn't get off, he could just get on the train. Swiss trains are very predictable, clean, and safe.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acdmama*
> 
> However you decide to celebrate, I hope your daughter has a GREAT birthday!


Thanks! I am sure she will have a good birthday - it is tomorrow BTW. I don't want to tie this to her birthday because I don't want her to think that her birthday is a failure if she decides she isn't ready. We have some special stuff planned but it is nothing like riding a train by herself. More like dinner out and a party.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MamaMunchkin*
> 
> Dear OP,
> 
> ...


My biggest concern is that she will decide she wants to do it and get scared or change her mind mid-trip. I really do think it is safe, it is just whether or not she is overestimating her readiness. She has been rather clingy on the trains the last few days - choosing to sit on the stairs by me and the stroller instead of a seat - so I am thinking she has changed her mind.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StephandOwen*
> 
> At 6 years old my son would not have been ready to do that (he's 7 1/2 now and still isn't).
> 
> Would you consider letting her do it if someone you knew (a family friend or relative) was on the train with her (even if she didn't know they were there) to keep an eye on things? She could feel independent and you could still know she was safe.


Well, the way the train is set up, if someone went along, she'd know. The cars are rather small and she is good at picking out people she knows half way down the platform. Her class goes on the train to the next town for the dentist (her teacher + 15 kids) and they also take an end of the year trip to the forest which is a train and a bus away. (3 teachers and about 40 kids) She did that last year with no problem. She is comfortable taking the train with me or with friends and light supervision.

Tomorrow we have to go get her junior card for riding the train. She is no longer free when she rides with me.

xposted with AllisonR - she is spot on.


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## Doodlebugsmom (Aug 1, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KCMichigan*
> 
> I would find out legally what age is allowed and take it from there.
> 
> I know that many states (in the US) have a set age to be left home alone, I would use that as a rough guide and then factor in child maturity and situation (day/night/cost/familiarity, etc).


Actually, only 2 states (Maryland and Illinois) have such laws. Several other states have guidelines, but nothing as far as legality. Most states have neither. I think every child and situation is different, and considerations must be made for each of them.

OP, I would have no problem with what you describe.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hoopin' Mama*
> 
> Someone above mentioned flying. I flew from Ohio/New York state to Florida several times alone starting at the age of 6. I can't remember if I had layovers, but probably. Back then though, I think flying was different. People still dressed up to do it (according to my Mom's rules) and I think flight attendants were more often ask to help a child flying alone. Now with all the "no frills" I don't know how those requests are taken.


5-7 children can travel as unaccompanied minors ONLY on direct flights

8 + for flights with stopovers/layovers

and 12+ for travellign alone.

as unaccompanied minors you have to pay an extra around $100 for the services of a flight attendant.

about children being left alone here in California i have discovered many parents leave their kids alone at the age of 6 onwards under the tutteledge of nieghbours next door. not on a regular basis but once in a while. the kids and my dd loves it.


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## MamaMunchkin (Feb 3, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lalaland42*
> My biggest concern is that she will decide she wants to do it and get scared or change her mind mid-trip. I really do think it is safe, it is just whether or not she is overestimating her readiness. She has been rather clingy on the trains the last few days - choosing to sit on the stairs by me and the stroller instead of a seat - so I am thinking she has changed her mind.


Yeah, I know what you mean - a 6-yr old can be very unpredictable. Well, if I were you I'll wait until she ... really







... begs for a solo train ride then. I do like your idea of giving her a cellphone during her first ride. Hope she has a great bday party!


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## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

So I was chatting with a local friend of mine about this. She has a daughter the same age as my daughter and a son 2 years older. She thought it was a good idea and that my daughter and her two big kids should all go together. I can just imagine them giggling the whole way. Anyway, this is probably a better idea and good practice for the kids. My DD is overwhelmed by her birthday today so I am going to wait to bring it up. 

I can't believe my baby is getting so big!


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## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-462091/How-children-lost-right-roam-generations.html

Look at the picture comparing the freedom of eight year olds over 4 generations.

I think it's probably fine in Switzerland. In the US you have to wait longer because IMO people feel better about themselves if they are policing the "safety" of other people's children, e.g., putting their own standards onto others, even if they have not done one iota of research on risk.


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## 7thDaughter (Jan 8, 2006)

I spent time in Germany, where kids are taught to be independent very early. It was normal to see 4 & 5 y-o children walking by themselves to kindergarten or down to the bakery. Most villages were quite safe -- everybody knows everybody, and strangers are noticed. We saw plenty of youth traveling alone by train and allowed our two to take a short train trip when they were 8 & 10, traveling together.

Assuming things are similar in Switzerland, 6 still seems a bit young for the train, but if Mom puts the child on the train and she is met by Dad at the next stop, I'd think it's perfectly safe. An alternative might be to arrange for a friend, an 8 or 10 yo, to travel together with the child.

I lean toward the "free-range kid" idea -- grow safety skills and help the child build competency step by step. My pint-sized daughter always had a strong independent streak and a boatload of over-confidence. I had to walk the line between teaching her a reasonable degree of caution while letting her gain experience. Now at 17 she has traveled alone by train, plane, and bus. She is a competent world traveler, and doesn't need Mummy anymore! Boo-hoo!


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## onyxravnos (Dec 30, 2006)

i didn't read all the comments but what you described sounds fine to me. My biggest concern would be her missing her stop but you've already accounted for that.

i think that is a very safe way to add a little independence. have you been to *freerangekids*.wordpress.com ? she let her son ride the NYC train home. by himself.  what a tizzy it stirred up!


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## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *onyxravnos*
> 
> i didn't read all the comments but what you described sounds fine to me. My biggest concern would be her missing her stop but you've already accounted for that.
> 
> i think that is a very safe way to add a little independence. have you been to *freerangekids*.wordpress.com ? she let her son ride the NYC train home. by himself.  what a tizzy it stirred up!


Okay, feel compelled to put the NYC subway story in context, since I see it referenced here a lot on MDC as an example of free range. First, it was the national media who made a big issue out of this, not New Yorkers. The hard reality is that a lot of people view the NYC subway as a "dangerous place" and I would guess that a lot of these people are non-NYers. Second, thousands, even hundreds of thousands of kids ride the subway every day here, even by themselves. That is the way kids get to school...we don't have yellow buses here except in private school situations. It cracks me up that this story reached such a wide audience, given that 9 year olds riding the subway is such a common occurrence here. Most kids travel with their siblings and in groups of kids, but no one really gives a thought to the 8 to 10 year old set riding the subway. The woman who wrote the blog entry was, let's say, making a bigger deal out of it than the rest of us who consider it commonplace. I think only NYers will understand the following: it it is privileged mentality. "Oh gosh, my kid road the subway by himself! I'm so special and avant garde!" I don't mean to be snarky, but there are very distinct class systems here and this is prime example. JMHO.


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> Okay, feel compelled to put the NYC subway story in context, since I see it referenced here a lot on MDC as an example of free range. First, it was the national media who made a big issue out of this, not New Yorkers. The hard reality is that a lot of people view the NYC subway as a "dangerous place" and I would guess that a lot of these people are non-NYers. Second, thousands, even hundreds of thousands of kids ride the subway every day here, even by themselves. That is the way kids get to school...we don't have yellow buses here except in private school situations. It cracks me up that this story reached such a wide audience, given that 9 year olds riding the subway is such a common occurrence here. Most kids travel with their siblings and in groups of kids, but no one really gives a thought to the 8 to 10 year old set riding the subway. The woman who wrote the blog entry was, let's say, making a bigger deal out of it than the rest of us who consider it commonplace. I think only NYers will understand the following: it it is privileged mentality. "Oh gosh, my kid road the subway by himself! I'm so special and avant garde!" I don't mean to be snarky, but there are very distinct class systems here and this is prime example. JMHO.


you forgot to mention-this doesn't just happen in NYC

many cities you public transportation, that means buses as well

go for it!

Quote:


> because IMO people feel better about themselves if they are policing the "safety" of other people's children, e.g., putting their own standards onto others, even if they have not done one iota of research on risk


soooooooooooo true!


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## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> *you forgot to mention-this doesn't just happen in NYC*
> 
> ...


I didn't forget...just not qualified to speak for other locales!


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## pianojazzgirl (Apr 6, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pigpokey*
> 
> In the US you have to wait longer because IMO people feel better about themselves if they are policing the "safety" of other people's children, e.g., putting their own standards onto others, even if they have not done one iota of research on risk.


I get what you're saying, but I think it's worth thinking a bit deeper on the subject. While it's annoying and potentially very problematic (I'm thinking unnecessary CPS intervention) to deal with "busy bodies", on the flip side I think it is important for us all to watch out for the safety of kids - all kids - and not just bury our heads in the sand, thinking we should only look out for our own. If I see a young kid who is by themselves I *do* pay a little extra attention. No, I don't jump in and freak out and call the nearest cop, but I might just keep an eye on them for a bit. For example, where I live is right on a busy commercial street in a big city. If I saw a toddler or preschooler seemingly without an adult (on that street) I'd stay close until I could tell that there was in fact someone with them who was just a bit farther back down the street (this has happened a few times). In the OP's scenario (6yo on a train) I might just keep an eye out and if, by some slim chance, the child did get hassled or seemed scared, etc, I would approach them to see if they needed my help. I'm a friendly mommy and I'd like to think that in the very small off-chance that a kid was by themselves and actually needed help, I'd be able to give that help. Just yesterday my friend took her 2yo to the Botanical Gardens and he managed to run off and hide in the split second that she took her eyes off him. If I was in her shoes I'd be very grateful for someone "policing the safety of other people's children" if it meant keeping an eye on him until he could be safely reunited with his mom.


----------



## ar2974 (Nov 19, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CatsCradle*
> 
> Okay, feel compelled to put the NYC subway story in context, since I see it referenced here a lot on MDC as an example of free range. First, it was the national media who made a big issue out of this, not New Yorkers. The hard reality is that a lot of people view the NYC subway as a "dangerous place" and I would guess that a lot of these people are non-NYers. Second, thousands, even hundreds of thousands of kids ride the subway every day here, even by themselves. That is the way kids get to school...we don't have yellow buses here except in private school situations. It cracks me up that this story reached such a wide audience, given that 9 year olds riding the subway is such a common occurrence here. Most kids travel with their siblings and in groups of kids, but no one really gives a thought to the 8 to 10 year old set riding the subway. The woman who wrote the blog entry was, let's say, making a bigger deal out of it than the rest of us who consider it commonplace. I think only NYers will understand the following: it it is privileged mentality. "Oh gosh, my kid road the subway by himself! I'm so special and avant garde!" I don't mean to be snarky, but there are very distinct class systems here and this is prime example. JMHO.


I have posted the same thing several times. I live in Brooklyn and see many kids taking the subway by themselves every day. They have to if their school is not within walking distance and there isn't anyone available to travel with them- yellow school buses are only provided up to 3rd grade. The furor over the article was completely a class thing - the big deal was a middle class journalist's 9 year old son taking the subway by himself not "a nine year old". My 4 year old has taken the subway almost every day of her life. By the time she is 8 or 9, I can't see there being any problem with her taking it without me.


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## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ar2974*
> 
> I have posted the same thing several times. I live in Brooklyn and see many kids taking the subway by themselves every day. They have to if their school is not within walking distance and there isn't anyone available to travel with them- yellow school buses are only provided up to 3rd grade. The furor over the article was completely a class thing - the big deal was a middle class journalist's 9 year old son taking the subway by himself not "a nine year old". My 4 year old has taken the subway almost every day of her life. By the time she is 8 or 9, I can't see there being any problem with her taking it without me.


Cool! I'm in Brooklyn and have a 4.5 year old. Subway is a way of life. Nice to see you here.!


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## colsxjack (Dec 9, 2009)

I live in Toronto Canada, and my DD is less than 2 yrs old. So I may not be qualified to answer. BUT, I do ride the subway (and other public transit) with our child all the time. She will be using transit to get around the city for much of her life. I want her to have the skills and confidence to manouver her way around town. At 6 I do not know if I would let her go alone, as the subway is large and very crowded. But maybe on a sunday afternoon near the end of the line.

I do plan by 6 or 7 to have her ride alone in a car ahead of me and get herself home. I want to know for sure that if we did ever get separated that she could find her way to her own neighbourhood. There is the possibility of getting separated on the subway here with an older kid. The doors open and close so quickly, I have almost been separated from my nephew when I got off the train and he almost didn't. In that situation I would want my kid to be able to stay clam, ride to the next stop and get off the train and wait for me on the platforms bench or something.

My DD is only 20months and already is showing signs of knowing her way around her neighbourhood by recognizing that landmarks are coming up ahead before they are in view.

OP, I like the idea that your friend had, of having your DD and her two kids do it alone. In that case I would even allow them to go further, like two or three stops. And then I would build up to them getting off at a stop that wasn't the end of the line. And then build up to transferring trains, etc. It is an excellent skill to have if she is going to be expected to travel on transit without adult supervision at some point.


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## leighi123 (Nov 14, 2007)

If I thought my child was ready, I would do it.


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## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *colsxjack*
> 
> I do plan by 6 or 7 to have her ride alone in a car ahead of me and get herself home. I want to know for sure that if we did ever get separated that she could find her way to her own neighbourhood. There is the possibility of getting separated on the subway here with an older kid. The doors open and close so quickly, I have almost been separated from my nephew when I got off the train and he almost didn't. In that situation I would want my kid to be able to stay clam, ride to the next stop and get off the train and wait for me on the platforms bench or something.


That actually almost happened on Friday. I have a rule that kids get on or off the train first and then me because I can block the doors with my arms or body but DD can't. On Friday, I had DS in the stroller and DD on foot. I told her to get on the train when the doors opened and she did. Then someone got off the train with 2 huge duffel bags and blocked the door entrance. I said excuse me quite loudly several times but they did not move. The train doors started to close and I had to leave the stroller to block them open. Meanwhile other passengers were helping me by holding the stroller. Thankfully the person finally moved







and I was able to get on the train with 2 people helping me get the stroller up the stairs and on the train. I was sure that the train doors were going to close with DD inside and once the train doors close, that is it.

A friend of mine got separated from her visiting adult brother and parents when she got off the train but they didn't know they needed to hurry so the train doors closed and the train left. She had to get in touch with the conductor and have someone tell them how to get on the return train since they don't speak German.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ar2974*
> 
> I have posted the same thing several times. I live in Brooklyn and see many kids taking the subway by themselves every day. They have to if their school is not within walking distance and there isn't anyone available to travel with them- yellow school buses are only provided up to 3rd grade. The furor over the article was completely a class thing - the big deal was a middle class journalist's 9 year old son taking the subway by himself not "a nine year old". My 4 year old has taken the subway almost every day of her life. By the time she is 8 or 9, I can't see there being any problem with her taking it without me.


I think part of it is a class thing, and part is a location thing. In my experience, outside of the large cities in the US there seems to be a perception of public transportation as dangerous and full of undesireables. This fear of public transport is a very US suburban mentality that you really don't find in Europe. I put a lot of it down to the American car culture - some people only feel safe in their car, where they can kid themselves that their car seat can protect their child from all the evil and danger in the world ;-)


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## Owen'nZoe (Sep 7, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *choli*
> 
> I think part of it is a class thing, and part is a location thing. In my experience, outside of the large cities in the US there seems to be a perception of public transportation as dangerous and full of undesireables. This fear of public transport is a very US suburban mentality that you really don't find in Europe. I put a lot of it down to the American car culture - some people only feel safe in their car, where they can kid themselves that their car seat can protect their child from all the evil and danger in the world ;-)


I just wanted to take a small exception to this. I grew up in an urban (not suburban) environment. I took the city bus frequently, including taking it to school. However, where I lived, the public busses truly were not safe. The busses were dirty and were covered with gang tags. It wasn't an every day occurance, but I did witness fights and drug deals on the bus, and was mugged after getting off one once. It isn't always just an issue of perception - in some places it is the cold hard reality.

Where I live now, the bus system is used largely by the poor and by college students. It is safe, but most suburbanites won't use it. Here, I agree completely with you - it is an issue of perception.


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## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KCMichigan*
> 
> I would find out legally what age is allowed and take it from there.
> 
> ...


Actually, it's only 2 states out of 50 that I'm aware of that have any laws about when kids can be left alone. I see misquotes about this all the time, and it just isn't so. However the culture is moving in that direction, one I personally find highly annoying and disrespectful to children and also harmful. If we don't given them any freedom / responsibility / consequences in childhood (COMMESURATE WITH THEIR INDIVIDUAL ABILITIES AS JUDGED BY THE PARENTS WHO LOVE THEM) look the heck out when they become teenagers. I also think it's physically dangerous and a contributor to childhood obesity. Our county pools recently moved the age to be there alone from 9 to 13. What a waste! So in the middle of the hot summer do you think all these lower and lower middle income 9 year olds home alone are going to be better off biking to the neighborhood pool, or watching Teen Mom while eating chips and talking on the phone?

I was left alone regularly for fairly long periods (given that my home was 15 minutes from the nearest store and 30 minutes from anyone's work) about age 9, and was fully capable of taking care of myself. I am sure I was left home alone for briefer times before that, e.g, mom going to the neighbor's 3 houses down while I wanted to watch TV. I know I wandered pretty far alone way before 9.


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## Carma (Feb 10, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *caedenmomma*
> 
> Nope, I wouldn't feel comfortable with this. At minimum, I would send an adult friend of mine to watch her like a hawk (you don't have to tell your DD about that plan). I understand it is only a 3 minute ride. I also understand that it could take less than 3 minutes for a monster to do something horrible.


This is maybe what I would do if my DD felt very strongly about it. I do let my 5 yo do rides on a fair by herself, but then I can watch her all the time.

I did grow up in Europe, but I still feel that such a solo trainride would give her a false sense of safety. A child this young has no idea what bad things could happen, they just want to test their "train knowledge". Not their crisis management skills. In 3 minutes chances are small that something will happen, but it is possible and then there is no adult. It reminds me of a note at our local swim school. It says that they don't want to have 3 year olds at the swimming lessons, because they will get a false sense of their abilities and actually have a higher chance of drowning than a child that did not have swimming lessons.

Carma


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

If I lived in the suburbs of Zurich, yes. But I live in Bogota...so no.


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## MamitaM (Sep 10, 2010)

No way in Hell! If I ever saw a young child alone on a train I'd call the conductor and make a HUGE deal out of it and if they didn't do anything you bet your ass that I'd follow that child (but not in a scary way for them) and have a word with their parents!


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## HollyBearsMom (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MamitaM*
> 
> No way in Hell! If I ever saw a young child alone on a train I'd call the conductor and make a HUGE deal out of it and if they didn't do anything you bet your ass that I'd follow that child (but not in a scary way for them) and have a word with their parents!


wow. really?


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## kavamamakava (Aug 25, 2004)

I think that sounds like a nice plan. How often does that train run? Maybe you can catch the next one and meet them there and then take the train back together. Or take the same train but be in a different car.


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## MamitaM (Sep 10, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HollyBearsMom*
> 
> wow. really?


Yes, for sure. A child that young could get really hurt on even a short train ride by themselves and a parent should be told this. On these trains the conductor is at the front and they won't see a child on their own at the back of the train if they are hurt or being harassed or anything so they wouldn't even be able to help them. I know the kind of train she's talking about and I've lived in CH before. They are pretty easy to get on and off are, but some little ones (even at age 6) may need a little extra help or time to get off and others may not give them that time they need or assistance if they need it. I don't care if Dad was there to meet them, it just isn't safe.


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## HollyBearsMom (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MamitaM*
> 
> Yes, for sure. A child that young could get really hurt on even a short train ride by themselves and a parent should be told this. On these trains the conductor is at the front and they won't see a child on their own at the back of the train if they are hurt or being harassed or anything so they wouldn't even be able to help them. I know the kind of train she's talking about and I've lived in CH before. They are pretty easy to get on and off are, but some little ones (even at age 6) may need a little extra help or time to get off and others may not give them that time they need or assistance if they need it. I don't care if Dad was there to meet them, it just isn't safe.


That is just so sad.


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## MamitaM (Sep 10, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HollyBearsMom*
> 
> That is just so sad.


Yes it is sad that some parents will allow their children to do things before they are ready and before it's safe for them to do something. It's also sad that there are so many people that we have to watch out for out there.


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## MsFortune (Dec 5, 2010)

I'd do it based on what OP described.

The world is not less safe than it used to be - it's just the media getting us whipped into a frenzy.


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## HollyBearsMom (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MamitaM*
> 
> Yes it is sad that some parents will allow their children to do things before they are ready and before it's safe for them to do something. It's also sad that there are so many people that we have to watch out for out there.


Have you even read any of the posts?


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MamitaM*
> 
> No way in Hell! If I ever saw a young child alone on a train I'd call the conductor and make a HUGE deal out of it and if they didn't do anything you bet your ass that I'd follow that child (but not in a scary way for them) and have a word with their parents!


Following a child you believe to be very or even too young to be alone to make sure they are safely met by a grown up is one thing, and a kind thing to do...deeming yourself the safety patrol and lecturing parents about safety...I think I'd be tempted to react quite violently to such presumptious behavior from a perfect stranger.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MamitaM*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


It's for 3 minutes and at the end of the line...so there wouldn't be the issue of running out of time to get off...the trains empty out and the conductors scan the cars. Plus the OP is talking about the middle of a working day at the end of the line...there wouldn't be crowds.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MamitaM*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Not every 6 year old is a guileless weakling unable to protect themselves, and parents have the right to make those decision for themselves without being told off by perfect strangers. We are all well aware of the potential dangers out there. Just because YOU do not feel YOUR child is ready and that it is safe for YOUR child, doesn't mean it's not safe for another child. For goodness sake, the age set by most airlines for children to fly OVERSEAS (we're talking hours with only a busy steward as your "guardian", not a 3 minute train ride with informed train staff going towards the end of the line) alone is FIVE! Thank goodness for the OP that she lives in a part of the world that has not gone totally crazy with fear and where people strike a good balance between trust and safety with their children.

My 6 year old is freakishly tall for his age and most people assume he is 8, and then he opens his mouth and people assume he is a very short 9 or 10. I would have no qualms with DS taking the train in the suburbs of ******* to go between his Gran's and his auntie's house without me if I knew a grown up was meeting him on the other end as it is ONE stop and it is a safe neighborhood, especially if he had my cellphone and his safety whistle. Regardless of that, it would be MY call to make, not society's or anyone else's. At the moment we live in Bogota and he stands out as a ****** with his green eyes and blonde hair despite his perfect Spanish, and there is a great deal of poverty and violent crime in this city. It is NOT a safe place for kids to be alone. Zurich? In the suburbs? At the end of the line in the middle of the work day? I think we need to leave this up to the mom and not be so worried about what other people choose for thier children.

This summer he is flying alone to see his Grandma and Grandpa for two weeks in the States. He'll be alone on a plane with his grandpa meeting him at the gate. The flight will take about 7 hours. He's not worried (far from it) and neither are we.


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> Following a child you believe to be very or even too young to be alone to make sure they are safely met by a grown up is one thing, and a kind thing to do...deeming yourself the safety patrol and lecturing parents about safety...I think I'd be tempted to react quite violently to such presumptious behavior from a perfect stranger.












and I would not hesitate for press stalking and harassment charge against the so-called "safety" person--please stay away from my child!

last time I checked, parents still do have rights (at lease here in the US)

according to my state's law I could press charges-unauthorized following is stalking

IMO- a "concerned" citizen would never follow a child and approach a parent

a concerned citizen would look out for others, be it the old lady next to them, the 30 something man and the large family also on the bus, tran, etc and not single out the child-

I would be far more in-tuned with the surrounding and the possible danger ALL could face, not a vigilante stance/approach


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## mamalisa (Sep 24, 2002)

I honestly can't imagine what is going to happen on a three minute train ride, in a quiet city, with little people traffic. Three minutes is enough time to get on the train, find a seat, spend 45 seconds speeding up, 1 minute traveling, and a 1 minute 15 seconds slowing down and stopping. I lived in the Chicago suburbs most of my life and hopped on the Metra to get to the other side of town all the time on the milk run stops. There's barely enough time to settle into your seat, forget about getting in trouble.

I say it depends on the environment and the child and there is no blanket answer for when it's ok. My older child would LOVE it, my younger one would have freaked out at being alone.


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## ~pi (May 4, 2005)

I have close family in Switzerland and we have spent quite a bit of time there over the years, including on the trains. For the situation you describe, I would be comfortable with a reasonably cautious six year old. If you and your DH agree that she can handle it, and she wants to do it, a 3 minute ride on a SBB train with one parent on either end is a very safe introduction to solo train travel.


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## Neera (Jul 15, 2007)

No. It would be like me leaving my dd in the car for a few minutes alone.


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## Daffodil (Aug 30, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neera*
> 
> No. It would be like me leaving my dd in the car for a few minutes alone.


Which is actually perfectly safe under most circumstances.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I grew up with trains. I grew up riding trains alone. I rode trains alone by about six or seven. But, I don't think i'd be comfortable sending her on a train alone. I'm not sure what has changed for me, but, I just wouldn't feel right about it.

What if she got 50 yards from the station, and started to cry? What if she didn't get off, and daddy didn't get on to look for her? What if he thinks she's on car #7, but she's on car #9?

I would let her take a friend and sit alone on the train with her friend while I sat several rows behind her minding my own business.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MamitaM*
> 
> No way in Hell! If I ever saw a young child alone on a train I'd call the conductor and make a HUGE deal out of it and if they didn't do anything you bet your ass that I'd follow that child (but not in a scary way for them) and have a word with their parents!


That would be an overreaction and that's why people are afraid to leave their kids alone. I think we REALLY underestimate our kids, or the parents who know them.

I voted "no, I wouldn't let her go alone", but I wouldn't panic if I saw a child alone on a train in another country. I've seen toddlers get on an elevator or escalator alone, and I'll follow those kids because Mom turned around for a second. But, if a parent put the child on the train, I think I'd trust mom and dad's judgement more than my own.


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## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nextcommercial*
> 
> I grew up with trains. I grew up riding trains alone. I rode trains alone by about six or seven. But, I don't think i'd be comfortable sending her on a train alone. I'm not sure what has changed for me, but, I just wouldn't feel right about it.
> 
> ...


Why wouldn't daddy get on to look for her in this scenario? This train is 2-3 cars long (short distance commuter train) and it sits in the next town for about 10 minutes until it turns around. If daddy is standing on the platform and she doesn't get off, why wouldn't he look for her after a minute or so?

She already sits by herself sometimes. The big deal to her would be navigating the getting on/off by herself. I do worry about her starting to cry once the train left the station but she sounds fine with going with her 2 friends. She doesn't think she is ready to go by herself. She does think she is ready to go with her same-age friend to Zurich's high train station.







That ain't gonna happen.


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## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neera*
> 
> No. It would be like me leaving my dd in the car for a few minutes alone.


In some cases, leaving my 6 year old in the car by herself would be perfectly fine. I wouldn't do it in lots of areas but I think it is OK in other areas. I do leave my DD outside the grocery store (in a courtyard) to play and eat an ice cream from time to time. Grocery shopping is boring to her and we live in a very safe town. In DD's case, she is perfectly capable of coming in and getting me if she needs anything.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lalaland42*
> 
> Why wouldn't daddy get on to look for her in this scenario?


I have no idea, but sometimes things happen that we don't understand, and don't forsee. Stuff just happens. Once, our neighbor left all the kids at home. (one was 12 yrs old, so perfectly reasonable) but there was a sudden bizzarre horrible storm that none of us ever saw coming, and she was trapped inside the grocery store, while the kids rode out the storm alone. Nothing bad happened, but it was just something nobody thought could happen.

Also, I assumed the train was huge, like those in the city I grew up in. So, if it were a smaller train, in a smaller town, I might feel differently. I think we all have different feelings based on where we live now, or where we grew up. Whatever our own experience is, changes how comfortable we feel with different situations.


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## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nextcommercial*
> 
> I have no idea, but sometimes things happen that we don't understand, and don't forsee. Stuff just happens. Once, our neighbor left all the kids at home. (one was 12 yrs old, so perfectly reasonable) but there was a sudden bizzarre horrible storm that none of us ever saw coming, and she was trapped inside the grocery store, while the kids rode out the storm alone. Nothing bad happened, but it was just something nobody thought could happen.
> 
> Also, I assumed the train was huge, like those in the city I grew up in. So, if it were a smaller train, in a smaller town, I might feel differently. I think we all have different feelings based on where we live now, or where we grew up. Whatever our own experience is, changes how comfortable we feel with different situations.


I think that is definitely true. In fact, I think if I were Swiss, I wouldn't be hemming and hawing about all of this. I'd make a decision and that would be that. My Americanness comes out in small ways sometimes.







It is a smaller train and I can actually ride my bike along the train tracks because there is a bike path so if it stopped or whatever, I could just ride up to it. I would definitely give her my cell phone to call her dad if anything came up.

DD seemed to have a bit of a hard time turning 6. I guess it is kind of tough letting go of baby and toddlerhood so I think she'll wait a bit until she asks again. That is perfectly OK with me.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lalaland42*
> 
> In some cases, leaving my 6 year old in the car by herself would be perfectly fine.


wait WHAT?!!! <not talking directly to you lala> u mean no one leaves their 6 year old alone as they go to pay for gas and are away for a few minutes?

really?!!! i live in a big city where crime does exist but its not everywhere. neither would i call any neighborhood safe.

but really a 6 year old is old enough to be alone in the car for a few minutes. unless of course certain conditions are not conducive - like weather, really bad neighborhood.


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## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *meemee*
> 
> wait WHAT?!!! <not talking directly to you lala> u mean no one leaves their 6 year old alone as they go to pay for gas and are away for a few minutes?
> 
> ...


Well, last time we had this discussion here, I learned it is illegal in CA. In TX (where I lived before Switzerland), I think you have 5 minutes. Some people think it is child abuse to go inside to pay for gas and others think that is ridiculous. *I* am glad I don't have to worry about cars or car seats anymore.


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## SoulJourney (Sep 26, 2005)

lala...I am SURE things are different in Switzerland than they are in the States so I can't say what I would or wouldn't do in your scenario. I will say that it IS legal for children to fly on airplanes alone once they turn five and, much to my dismay, My DS started making the 2 1/2 hour flight alone to see his dad last month. NOW I see that he's not only perfectly capable but he loves it and it's not a problem. I'm still a nervous wreck until I get the text from his dad that he's there safely, but he's fine and it's good for him that I trust him and allow him the opportunity to feel independent.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lalaland42*
> 
> Well, last time we had this discussion here, I learned it is illegal in CA. In TX (where I lived before Switzerland), I think you have 5 minutes. Some people think it is child abuse to go inside to pay for gas and others think that is ridiculous. *I* am glad I don't have to worry about cars or car seats anymore.


let me tell you if we lived in switzerland we would be leading a MUCH different life.







definitely with less protests from dd.


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## Neera (Jul 15, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Daffodil*
> 
> Which is actually perfectly safe under most circumstances.


It could be perfectly safe or quickly get v. unsafe. I worry that I might get distracted and forget about for I don't know, for a certain amt. of time or someone notices the child and I think it's against the law and don't want anyone calling the cops even if I have just left for a couple of minutes. Or it's a small chance but what if she unstraps herself because she knows how to and gets the attention of a pedophile. I don't know. In the case of the train ride I worry because I know that kidnappings happen in minutes.But that's just me.


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## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neera*
> 
> It could be perfectly safe or quickly get v. unsafe. I worry that I might get distracted and forget about for I don't know, for a certain amt. of time or someone notices the child and I think it's against the law and don't want anyone calling the cops even if I have just left for a couple of minutes. Or it's a small chance but what if she unstraps herself because she knows how to and gets the attention of a pedophile. I don't know. In the case of the train ride I worry because I know that kidnappings happen in minutes.But that's just me.


How could someone get kidnapped off a train if that someone's dad is waiting outside the train doors?


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## ameliabedelia (Sep 24, 2002)

My 6-yo would not be ready for that at all and I can't imagine her asking to do something like that, so no way. I do think in the situation you describe it sounds safe enough. I probably still wouldn't do it though...even if my child was ready and wanted to. It just seems sorta pointless to me and a lot of hassle (having her dad be at the next stop, taking her to the train, and you would need to probably ride another train to catch up with them.). I would think I would wait for a solo train ride to be when she is older (and able to handle a bit more than just those 3 minutes by herself) and when it would actually be helpful to have her ride the train by herself.


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## Neera (Jul 15, 2007)

Sorry, I hadn't read all the posts and haven't still but have read most. I have visited Holland and Germany but not Switzerland and imagine that it is a lot safer than here. When I was talking of kidnappings I was thinking about a busy train in a crowded town here in the U.S. So, just ignore that.


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

I would be comfortable with my 12 year old, not my 5 year old.


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> When I was talking of kidnappings I was thinking about a busy train in a crowded town here in the U.S.


Where in the US is this happening?

I live within two hours of two of the largest US cities and get daily news from both and I don't see this happening. I do see thousands and thousands of children that take trains daily and no reports of this.

and I do see a lot of unfounded fear not backed by facts

I see people afraid of letting children do most normal (at least it use to be) activities.

If there was real evidence of this I could understand, but still most crimes are committed in large part by people we know, not random strangers.


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## Carma (Feb 10, 2006)

Quote:


> I see people afraid of letting children do most normal (at least it use to be) activities.


Actually I do think things used to be safer. For example there used to be less traffic, more moms at home able to watch the neighbourhood kids. More siblings, etc. But also kids used to be more independent because parents were very busy around the house (before washing machines etc.). On the other hand there is also more independency today with more kids being in daycare. The first thing they learn is to hold their own bottle at < 6 month old....(nursing WOHM myself, I hated that) and after that self (spoon) feeding by 12 months, potty training and going to bathroom by themselves. I think more so than kids that are home with a parent.

I am also for giving kids independency. But a solo trainride I would not do. It could be perfectly safe to do for these 3 minutes with dad waiting etc. But the child does not understand that it is a special safe case and might hop on a different busy train with many stops by herself. That's why I wouldn't do it, even though this particular case has very small chance of danger. It is like letting a child steer the car on your lap on your own driveway to me. Very small chance of danger but I wouldn't do that either for similar reasons.

I do let my kids bike on our cull-de-sack by themselves (I watch them through the window). They can get their own snacks and drinks if they want something. They can decide what they wear to school (even if it is wrong season etc.). Things like that, which also gives them a sense of independence I believe. My kids are 5 and 3.

Carma


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

at age 5-6 I would not have been allowed to take a train by myself (and I'm 31 and grew up in a small town) I was allowed at age 10 to ride my bike into town though

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> Where in the US is this happening?
> 
> ...


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