# Trying to figure out ExRF for my 2yo -- Update in #14



## Theia (Oct 30, 2007)

Currently my 2yo DD is in a BB, RF. She is fast approaching the weight limit, I'm pretty sure she is literally within a couple of pounds of the 35lb RF limit. She just turned 2yo. I was really hoping that when I bought the BB that it would get her to RF for at least 3 years. But I can see that unless she doesn't have any growth spurts in the next 11months







that it isn't going to happen.

She is the only child, so space in the car isn't a concern. I rarely have to transfer the car seat between vehicles, like every 3 months or so when we visit the grandparents.

My car does not have latch so I have to use seatbelt install.

I've been considering recently purchasing a Radian XTSL. I think really the only difference between her current BB and the XTSL is the RF weight limit because her BB is only just over a year old and does have the side impact protection.

Financially, I could do this. Not easily, but if I sell her BB then it would make it easier.

I totally want to keep her RFing for as long as possible. She is usually in the 50-75% percentile on the growth charts.... so would the 45lb RF limit be a worthwhile purchase? I am also aware that the FF weight limit would also be higher so she would be in a 5pt harness longer. Suggestions please?

TIA









Or if you don't want to go all the way to post 14, you can go to my photo album and see pictures of the current install.


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## Theia (Oct 30, 2007)

Oh, and right now at elitecarseats.com the XTSL is 20% off.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

BB is Britax Boulevard? The Radian seats will last significantly longer both RFing and FFing -- the straps and shell are taller.


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## Theia (Oct 30, 2007)

Yes, it is the Boulevard.

So if I spend another $220 plus on a carseat, would it be a worthwhile investment? I'm all for safety, and that you can't really put a price on it. But financially I am on a limited income and have very little savings. In fact before the resale of the BB, this would use most of what savings I have.

Also, what issues would I see during install? I've gotten good at trading the BB back and forth between cars when I need to. But I've read that the XLST is more difficult with a seatbelt install. It is going into an '01 Subaru Forester in the middle position. My parents vehicle has latch, so I imagine it would be less of an issue for them. And I am small, so while I use my knee to install, I've not got a whole lot of force behind me.







I have a hard time getting the BB as tightly installed as I like in my car. I'm not super strong, don't have a strong friend to help and usually at the tightening down point with the BB, the seatbelt T-clip (where it clips into the car buckle) and the long black clip on the BB (which clips over the seatbelt fabric) are up against each other which limits the tightness of the install.

I want to do it, I just need more info to comfort myself that it is a wise decision financially and over the long term. And that it would of course work in my car. I'm a single parent so it's all on me.

Thank you.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Um, I would not count on putting it in the Forester in the middle position. Radians and Foresters do not get along well at all, especially in the center position.

How about a Graco MyRide?


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## Theia (Oct 30, 2007)

ahh.... really?







What are the problems with the Forester and Radians?

What are the limits on the myriad? Is it a better seat than the BB?


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

First, there is no objective criteria for a "better" seat. They all pass the same tests, and most companies don't release any more information than that.

The MyRide has a 40# RFing limit and 65# FFing. The harness is about the same height as the Boulevard, but many kids do get a little extra room in it because it has a very deep seat. It's a nice seat and very easy to install in most cars.

Subarus have humps in the center back, and Foresters are short from front to back and Radians are very tall. I'm a very good (sorry for the brag), very experienced CPST who has owned a Forester and a Radian so knows them both well, and I honestly don't write it lightly when I write that they are incompatible. I don't think I've ever declared a car/carseat combination incompatible on this forum before.


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## Theia (Oct 30, 2007)

It's just a small hump though. So unfair!







I'm short, and 99% of the time the only other person in the car. The car is paid off too..... so trading cars isn't a real viable option either. GAAH! This just messed up my day. I love my car most of the time.









But then for 5 lb. to go to the MyRide..... it just doesn't seem worth it. DD is already wearing 3T in shirts and her 2T pants are just now not dragging the ground. I'm afraid she'll still hit 40lbs before she is 3yo. Is that probable? I've not spent much time around littles before her. I know growth is a very individual thing.... but she doesn't seem like she is slowing down anytime soon.

I appreciate your candid advice and that you are very knowledgeable about the products being used.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

If you really want the XTSL and you rarely have passengers, how about installing it passenger side outboard and moving the front seat all the way forward? There are some tricks to getting the seat more upright, so that might be do-able with enough patience and sweat, but the Radian *really* doesn't like the Subaru humpiness.

Kids do slow down their growth, but I agree that with a child the size of yours, you want the highest-capacity seat you can get.


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## MJB (Nov 28, 2009)

My boys are big for their age and both hit 40 lbs. around their 4th birthday (they were 28 lbs. at 2 and 35 lbs. at 3). We are used to the doctor saying that they weigh too much. Do you know *exactly* how much your daughter weighs? Can you find out? A girl in the 75th %ile will hit 40 lbs. shortly after 4. If she is really in the 50th-75th %ile, I think you are probably just overestimating her weight (33 lbs. at 2y1m would be at the 95th % for weight), and a 40 lb. seat will get her to 3.5-4.5.


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## Theia (Oct 30, 2007)

So is the passenger outboard the next safest place if you can't use the center? I'm small and stuff, but I also consider myself tough and determined. So would I be able to somehow muscle the Radian into the car? And once she hits the RF limit, would she still be unable to be seated in the center location FF? I like the idea of the Radian being able to FF to 80 lb. I know there are some excellent boosters out there too, but since we do frequent long distance trips I am thinking the higher weight limits in a 5pt harness would be best.

And the other car this would go in, my parents own a Honda Odyssey.... not sure of the year, but probably no more than 6ish years old and it has latch. We drive to visit them about every 3 months and so I would have to move the car seat between the 2 vehicles then so we could all go places together.

Given this information.... what could you see as possibly being our best option? I realize this is friendly advice and you are completely free of any obligations or responsibilities. I will make the final decision.







But I really appreciate your guidance and knowledge.


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

If your wanting a radian but are unsure on fit in your car, do yourself a favor and order from diapers.com, as they have both free shipping AND free return shipping (for real - I orderd and returned a radian that I couldn't get installed in my car rf...), AND they'll price match anybody else w/ a lower price than them









Its a nice seat, and I really wish it would have worked in my car, but it just took up too much space front-back making the front passneger seat nearly unusable (and highly unsafe, IMO if it was being used...), and that just woulnd't work for us









Good Luck!!


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## Theia (Oct 30, 2007)

Thanks for the free shipping tip. I'm still trying to figure out what I want to do.

DD and I went to the store earlier, and I looked really closely at how I currently have the BB installed. The "hump" in Subaru's, is that the hump on the floor board, or an actual hump in the seat? Cuz my seat doesn't look so much like it has a hump, more like a slight dip in the forward edge of the seat. Like it's a bit concave on the front edge of the center of the rear seat. The BB does lean pretty far into the front passenger space even with some one short like me at the wheel.

Now that I have a good visual on the back seat, I'm trying to understand how the shape of the seat would effect the XSLT RF install?

I took a few pics with my camera phone...... just in case it's helpful. I'll upload them to my photo album since I don't see a way to add them to the post. Am I trying too hard here? I just want DD to be in the safest seat.


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## Theia (Oct 30, 2007)

I added photo's to my MDC user album, if anyone can look at them and clarify the thing about the hump and any other info gleaned from the pictures I'd really appreciate it.

Thank you.


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## ~Amy~ (Jun 7, 2009)

I'm a tech as well and although I don't have nearly the experience chickabiddy has, I will say that if she says it's incompatible, it's incompatible. She knows what she's talking about







I tried to find your pics...where do I go to look at them?


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## Theia (Oct 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Amy~* 
I'm a tech as well and although I don't have nearly the experience chickabiddy has, I will say that if she says it's incompatible, it's incompatible. She knows what she's talking about







I tried to find your pics...where do I go to look at them?

Thank you. I'm probably being a bit stubborn.







I'm just not ready to turn her FF in the next month or two. I'm not sure of her exact weight, but in December she was 34 inches and 28lbs, and she has grown since then. Is there a tantrum smilie here?

You should be able to find the pictures by clicking on my user name and going to my public profile.


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## ~Amy~ (Jun 7, 2009)

Weird, I can't find your album. Do I have to be one of your friends to see it maybe? If you upload to Photobucket or similar, you should be able to copy the link into a post.


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## Theia (Oct 30, 2007)

Hmm... that is weird. I have it marked as a public album.... its on the lower half of the page. Let me see if I can remember my photo album account.







And I'll friend you just in case...









ETA - Adding link to album on Picasa. http://picasaweb.google.com/11731681...eat=directlink

or this one

http://picasaweb.google.com/11731681...892993/CarSeat

One of those should work.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

One thing you can do is twist the female end of the buckle three times to shorten it.

What happens when you press down hard on the middle of the seat? Does it feel humpier then? I will say that your Forester looks significantly less humpy than mine was (and others I've worked in): the hump I'm referring to is under the seat in the center. Britax bases straddle it nicely, but the Radians wobble on it and can't get tight.


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## Theia (Oct 30, 2007)

Thank you for the tip about twisting the buckle. I will try that.

So does this mean that there is hope? Like maybe a slightly better chance that this might work out? I noticed that the BB does have a curved underside as seen in one of the pictures. If it's mostly flat in the center without the car seat there, then would it be safe to try the Radian in the center location?

eta: It's pouring rain right now so I can't test. But if I remember correctly, it doesn't feel especially humpy when doing the install. One time I had a guy friend help me install it and he had it so tight, like it seemed that literally inches of seat cushion were being compressed. I undid that and had him use a little less force.







But that was a few install's ago, and I can't get it as tight. I will try to do it tomorrow with the twisting trick. That should help I think.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Based on the pictures, I've gone from "no way at all" to "probably not, but _maybe_". The long seatbelt stalks and short front-to-back space still work against you, but maybe your hump isn't as pronounced as most are. It's certainly safe to try, especially if you order from someplace with free return shipping.


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## snoopy5386 (May 6, 2005)

I would get an accurate weight on your DD and not worry about it so much until the time comes. If she was 28 lbs in December, I highly doubt she'll hit 35 lbs before she's 3. We had to turn my DD in June because she hit the RFing limit on her BLVD - 33 lbs (older model). Low and behold it is almost a year later and she still weighs 33 lbs, maybe 34 on a good day. Their growth really slows down as they age.


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## Theia (Oct 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
Based on the pictures, I've gone from "no way at all" to "probably not, but _maybe_". The long seatbelt stalks and short front-to-back space still work against you, but maybe your hump isn't as pronounced as most are. It's certainly safe to try, especially if you order from someplace with free return shipping.

Woohoo! That is such good news. To know it could be possible. I understand it still might not work.... but Yay! I don't have a hump (or maybe only a little one







)! Thank you for taking the time to advise and putting up with my silly self.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *snoopy5386* 
I would get an accurate weight on your DD and not worry about it so much until the time comes. If she was 28 lbs in December, I highly doubt she'll hit 35 lbs before she's 3. We had to turn my DD in June because she hit the RFing limit on her BLVD - 33 lbs (older model). Low and behold it is almost a year later and she still weighs 33 lbs, maybe 34 on a good day. Their growth really slows down as they age.

I am going to do this as well.







Hopefully you are right. I should have an opportunity to weigh her next Friday.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Glad to help! I hope it works. (Are you anywhere near NC, by the way?)


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## mama2soren (Feb 12, 2009)

CPST's double-check this for me, please, but I thought that the lock-off on Britax seats is only supposed to be fastened on the side _opposite_ the seat belt buckle? Wouldn't it help her get a better installation with the Boulevard if the other lock-off was used instead, since she says it's getting in the way of her getting the belt extra tight?


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

You are correct about that -- I didn't notice -- but I'm not sure how much it will help.


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## Theia (Oct 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
Glad to help! I hope it works. (Are you anywhere near NC, by the way?)

Thank you. No, I used to live in NC, but that was pre-motherhood during my time in service. I'm out on the left coast now.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2soren* 
CPST's double-check this for me, please, but I thought that the lock-off on Britax seats is only supposed to be fastened on the side _opposite_ the seat belt buckle? Wouldn't it help her get a better installation with the Boulevard if the other lock-off was used instead, since she says it's getting in the way of her getting the belt extra tight?

Does this mean to not use the black clip on the car seat? On the side next to the seatbelt attachment mechanism? Sorry for my technical jargon....

I'm going to twist the female end of the seat belt attachment thing 3x and see if it still gets in the way.


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## mama2soren (Feb 12, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Theia* 
Does this mean to not use the black clip on the car seat? On the side next to the seatbelt attachment mechanism? Sorry for my technical jargon....
.

Use just one of the black clips, not both. It's recommended by Britax to use the clip that's on the _opposite_ side from where you buckle the seat belt together. Keep the not-in-use black clip closed, and just have the seat belt/seat belt buckle tightly resting on top of it. I would think that change, in combination with twisting the belt stalk, will help you get a tighter installation until you figure out which seat you want to get next.


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## Latte Mama (Aug 25, 2009)

Theia I just wanted to add as an FYI for you to save a little more $. If you do use diapers.com, definitely call and ask them to price match wherever else you see them on sale. You will have to give them the website and discount code for that site. Then once you checkout on diapers.com, you can use promo codes to get another 10 % off. If you use diapers, you can get a small cheapie pack and save another $10. Hopefully you live in a state that they don't tax.

retailmenot.com has plenty of their promo codes if you need them. HTH! I love both our Radians!!! I have a Flora XTSL in my car and in DH's car we have a 65SL that we got for $108 on sale and after additional 10% when diapers.com priced them wrong in error for a few hours!


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## yamilee21 (Nov 1, 2004)

I posted a similar thread on car-seat.org recently; extended rear-facing and Subaru Foresters are a tough combination. It does not seem that the Radian will fit in a Forester rear-facing from what I have heard, unless the Forester is 2009 or newer. Mine is a 2005; when I looked at the Radian in person, there is just no way to get it behind the front passenger seat if someone needs to sit there. I don't know about the older models, but my car manual specifically says that the middle seat should not be used for car seats at all. I have sometimes used the middle seat, but only with a forward-facing seat; I could never get a secure rear-facing install in the middle seat. It also seems that neither the Complete Air nor the MyRide - the two seats that rear-face to 40 pounds - fit well in Foresters either.


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## Theia (Oct 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2soren* 
Use just one of the black clips, not both. It's recommended by Britax to use the clip that's on the _opposite_ side from where you buckle the seat belt together. Keep the not-in-use black clip closed, and just have the seat belt/seat belt buckle tightly resting on top of it. I would think that change, in combination with twisting the belt stalk, will help you get a tighter installation until you figure out which seat you want to get next.

Oh







I did not know that. Thank you. I will correct that. I did manage to get the female receiver twisted 3 times and contorted myself to push down on the seat with my knees and reaching back to clip the buckle.... I'm sure it would have been a sight to see and all with me grunting, etc.







But I got it clipped finally and it is much tighter. Not that it was loose and sloppy, but this is noticeably tighter.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Latte Mama* 
Theia I just wanted to add as an FYI for you to save a little more $. If you do use diapers.com, definitely call and ask them to price match wherever else you see them on sale. You will have to give them the website and discount code for that site. Then once you checkout on diapers.com, you can use promo codes to get another 10 % off. If you use diapers, you can get a small cheapie pack and save another $10. Hopefully you live in a state that they don't tax.

retailmenot.com has plenty of their promo codes if you need them. HTH! I love both our Radians!!! I have a Flora XTSL in my car and in DH's car we have a 65SL that we got for $108 on sale and after additional 10% when diapers.com priced them wrong in error for a few hours!

Thank you for the tips! I didn't know this at all.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *yamilee21* 
I posted a similar thread on car-seat.org recently; extended rear-facing and Subaru Foresters are a tough combination. It does not seem that the Radian will fit in a Forester rear-facing from what I have heard, unless the Forester is 2009 or newer. Mine is a 2005; when I looked at the Radian in person, there is just no way to get it behind the front passenger seat if someone needs to sit there. I don't know about the older models, but my car manual specifically says that the middle seat should not be used for car seats at all. I have sometimes used the middle seat, but only with a forward-facing seat; I could never get a secure rear-facing install in the middle seat. It also seems that neither the Complete Air nor the MyRide - the two seats that rear-face to 40 pounds - fit well in Foresters either.

Hmmm..... I'm going to have to run out to the car to look at my owners manual. I have taken it to a CPST each time I've gotten a new carseat to have it installed, and both times they installed it in the center. I know not all CPST's are the same. But thank you for pointing this out and I'm going to look over my owners manual again to see if it says anything about this. I've read it before, but it's possible I'd miss it.


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## Theia (Oct 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yamilee21* 
I posted a similar thread on car-seat.org recently; extended rear-facing and Subaru Foresters are a tough combination. It does not seem that the Radian will fit in a Forester rear-facing from what I have heard, unless the Forester is 2009 or newer. Mine is a 2005; when I looked at the Radian in person, there is just no way to get it behind the front passenger seat if someone needs to sit there. I don't know about the older models, but my car manual specifically says that the middle seat should not be used for car seats at all. I have sometimes used the middle seat, but only with a forward-facing seat; I could never get a secure rear-facing install in the middle seat. It also seems that neither the Complete Air nor the MyRide - the two seats that rear-face to 40 pounds - fit well in Foresters either.

I read the carseat section in my owners manual again. No where does it say that the center rear seat location should not be used. There is even a drawing of a forward facing child in a car seat in the center. IDK, maybe on the much older models it's a bit different. I am going to look around town and see if I can find a shop that carries the Radian so I can see it in person.

I need to go take photos of the install now with the twist effect. The tightening had the effect of raising the top rear of the seat up a bit so it looks less like it is sitting on the inside of the front seats. It never was, but with the wooly seat covers it did look like it.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Subaru recommends against installing center because it is usually a very difficult install. It is safe to have a seat in the center if it can be securely installed. A seat can NOT be installed using LATCH in the center of a Subaru (afaik, but I haven't seen all the newest (2010-2011) models).

The MyRide should fit okay in a Forester.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

About the lockoffs: you can use either, or both, or neither. Whatever works for you.

Looking at those buckle stalks has me pretty convinced that the Radian isn't going to play nicely in that car, at least in the center. I'm sure you could get it outboard, but those buckle stalks look nightmarish, plus they are forward-of-the-bight (another issue with the Radians). I'd get a Radian, and plan on putting it outboard, and if you can install it in the center it would be a pleasant surprise







FF it won't be as much of a problem.


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## Theia (Oct 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
Subaru recommends against installing center because it is usually a very difficult install. It is safe to have a seat in the center if it can be securely installed. A seat can NOT be installed using LATCH in the center of a Subaru (afaik, but I haven't seen all the newest (2010-2011) models).

The MyRide should fit okay in a Forester.

Too bad they don't put info like that in the owners manual.







So I guess in my case it is a good thing that my car is pre-latch and seatbelt install is my only option.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
About the lockoffs: you can use either, or both, or neither. Whatever works for you.

Looking at those buckle stalks has me pretty convinced that the Radian isn't going to play nicely in that car, at least in the center. I'm sure you could get it outboard, but those buckle stalks look nightmarish, plus they are forward-of-the-bight (another issue with the Radians). I'd get a Radian, and plan on putting it outboard, and if you can install it in the center it would be a pleasant surprise







FF it won't be as much of a problem.

What does "forward of the bight" mean? Right now the seat is installed using both lockoffs. The lockoff next to the seat belt buckle actually has room (after I twisted it 3x) now where before the two things were rubbing up against each other. I've gotta run some errands in a bit. I've put the memory card back in my phone (I forgot it yesterday) and I'll take some after photos.

I'm going to get DD weighed hopefully on Friday, or Monday. I have Dr. appts. and she goes along with me. I'll see if I can get the nurse to let me weigh her as well.









Thank you everyone. I really appreciate the time, support and tips you are all offering.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Forward of the bight just means that instead of originating in the "crack" where the vehicle seat back meets the seat bottom, the seat belt comes out of the vehicle seat.


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