# 13yo boy babysitting 5yo girl?



## SweetPotato (Apr 29, 2006)

How would you feel about this? If he has taken a safe-sitter/child cpr class, you know the parents very well, and he's a very sweet, responsible kid whom your daughter adores? Would the gender difference alone affect your comfort level with the idea?


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## Multimomma (Jan 25, 2008)

It wouldn't bother me...my son was 14yo when he starting babysitting 2yo and up. He's fifteen now and sits 18 months old and up...can do diapers and rocking to sleep.


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## AFWife (Aug 30, 2008)

For me? Not one bit. I'd be fine with it in the circumstances you described.


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## dakotablue (Jun 21, 2009)

If I knew the child very well then I would be comfortable with that particular child regardless of the sex of either child.

But, around here 13 is too young to be left alone, it would be more of a mothers helper type situation.

I think if you know the child yourself, not based on others 'oh he's great', but then again I think I'd feel the same way about any female as well.


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

If I knew the boy extremely well I would. But we don't tend to let many people watch our kids, so I'd have to have alot of trust in him.

The gender thing wouldn't bother me so much.


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## Attached2Elijah (Jun 27, 2004)

Depends on his maturity level. My 13 year old step son would NOT be able to watch my 4 year old... I don't trust him. He's not NEARLY responsible enough. The gender would not matter to me one bit as long as he was mature enough.

My step-daughter, at 13, though was a different story. She's always been VERY mature for her age and incredibly responsible, especially with little ones. I would have and DID trust her completely with the little ones on many occasions.

He sounds like a mature kid to have taken the classes and such, I would do it.


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## ChetMC (Aug 27, 2005)

For me, it would be a matter of maturity, not gender.

Some 13 year olds are very capable of babysitting a five year old, others can hardly be left to take care of themselves for an hour.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChetMC* 
For me, it would be a matter of maturity, not gender.

Same here. The only people who have watched our kids so far are their grandparents and aunts, so when we start using teenage babysitters it probably won't be a 13-year-old. Maybe once our kids are a little older and we get more comfortable with the idea of non-family babysitters, but for now that'd be too young for us to be okay with the idea.

But since you know this kid and are presumably okay with his age and comfortable with teen sitters, it sounds like it'll be fine.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

i'd feel great.

its a boy your dd ADORES.

you know him.

i assume he is a mature 13.

wish we had one.

i know for my dd age difference makes a huge difference. a teenage child would be a much better baby sitter than an adult for the things seh would like to do. she is more open to listening from a teenager than an adult.


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## beebalmmama (Jul 21, 2005)

I think it's more a maturity issue too. We had a 13 yr old girl babysitting our almost 4 yr old ds. She was great! She had a lot more enthusiasm and interest in him than any of the 16 yr old babysitters he'd had.

Although we only felt comfortable with it in that her parents were home and didn't live too far away, in case she needed someone to call in an emergency.


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## Calee (May 10, 2008)

It would depend.

The gender would have nothing to do with it, at this age, for me.

I know some 13 year old that would panic in an emergency, etc. I would be more wary of his age than his gender.

I would want to be not gone long and not too far away, in case I needed to come home.


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## CherryBombMama (Jan 25, 2010)

i agree with everyone that its more about maturity than gender. but personally for me, i would never leave my kids with anyone under 16. but im kinda paranoid with things like that. i still see 13 y/os as "kids" ...


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## Marissamom (Dec 17, 2009)

I don't see any issue with it as long as he's mature enough to handle him and they get along. 5 year olds , in my opinion, are really easy to babysit (you just have to play with them, and maybe feed them, depending on the situation), so I have no problem trusting a mature teenager with one as long as they know what to do in an emergency. and I don't see any issue with the gender difference. we let girls babysit boys all the time and don't even give it a second thought.


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## Ornery (May 21, 2007)

My oldest son started babysitting at 13. For us and for our neighbors. However, if it was for our neighbors, he only did it when we were home and if it was for us, it was only when our neighbors were home. That way, if there was an emergency, he had an adult close by to help out. At 15, I still make sure there is an adult available to call in an emergency if he is going to babysit for us for over an hour.


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## treeoflife3 (Nov 14, 2008)

the gender thing bothers me as much as it bothers me to have a 13 year old girl watch a 5 year old boy. I don't assume that because he is male, this means there is going to be a... problem anymore than I assume that because it is a girl, there were be issues with her watching a boy.

as PP said, maturity is the only factor here. I would let a 13 year old boy babysit my 5 year old daughter assuming I know the boy and trust his ability to handle things that might come up as a babysitter and to adhere to my rules and expectations (as much as any babysitter would... I'm not obsessed about letting my kid stay up 15 minutes later hehe)

these are the same rules I have for anyone of any gender or age babysitting my daughter at any age under the age where she no longer needs a sitter. This is also why only four separate people have every watched my child with only two being trusted to do so at bedtime/mealtimes.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

I'd be okay with it, of course depending on the teen, but supposing he's as responsible as he seems to be (cpr course etc.) then sure.

The gender difference is not an issue. That would only come up if my child had survived sexual abuse or for some other reason was uncomfortable with it herself.


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## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

OK, i'll bite.

on paper, I admit it made me blink twice. Right after that though, I remembered that my brother has 'nannied' for ds, and I can think of 4-5 boys off the top of my head that I would be comfortable leaving DS with.


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

One more maturity not gender person. I was babysitting at 11 (I shouldn't have been... I totally wasn't ready) so the idea of a 13 year old doing it doesn't phase me. By 13 I was being left with my niece and nephew for a whole weekend. We did fine. (Now, the fact that we were left alone because my sister wanted to go party is a whole different matter.)


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## Bluegoat (Nov 30, 2008)

Well, I've had really good luck with sitters that age. They are generally really big on proving that they are responsible, and not so into some of the stupid stuff older teens are into. And they can still have a lot of fun playing with little kids too.


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## Lisa1970 (Jan 18, 2009)

13 yr olds are old enough to babysit. I would not not hire him just based on gender. I would, however, want to know him quite well, as I would want to know any babysitter quite well. My son babysits for us. He does not like it I don't think. But, he likes money and wants a job so if you asked him...I am sure he would do it. But my daughter would be the more nuturing babysitter.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

I wouldn't. But I was molested by my babysitter when I was four. He was everyones favorite kid. Even at 4 I knew no one would ever believe that this perfect kid was mean to me.

Also I would feel uncomfortable asking a 13 year old boy to help my dd with some of the things a 5 year old needs help with (even if rarely) such as wiping after toileting (my kids rarely needed this at five but sometimes the mess got out of hand....), changing clothes, and bed time.

I just feel more comfortable leaving my kids with someone the same gender as them. I would feel the same if I had boys.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

If I trusted him enough to be a babysitter then sure, why not?


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## Naturallove (Oct 9, 2010)

I am prepared to get flack for this, but I would under no circumstance allow a teenage boy to babysit a girl. I think it is inappropriate. He might be the greatest kid around, but you never know. For me, the stakes are too high to put a little girl in a situation that even has the slightest possibility of putting her at risk.


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## quietmim (Jul 24, 2010)

A 13 year old wouldn't bother me if I trusted them.

As far as the gender, the truth is you do never know. I sadly have experience with a female babysitter who inflicted severe abuse on her charges, of both sexes.

This is why, I would really have to know anyone who I would leave my child with.


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## lilmom (Nov 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Naturallove* 
I am prepared to get flack for this, but I would under no circumstance allow a teenage boy to babysit a girl. I think it is inappropriate. He might be the greatest kid around, but you never know. For me, the stakes are too high to put a little girl in a situation that even has the slightest possibility of putting her at risk.

I agree with this. My sister and cousin were both molested by my "wonderful" other cousin..he was male they were both female and he was between 13 and 16 when it all happened. Nobody ever thought it possibly could be an issue but it was and both of them suffered tremendously from it.

I just wouldn't risk it based on that experience.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Naturallove* 
I am prepared to get flack for this, but I would under no circumstance allow a teenage boy to babysit a girl. I think it is inappropriate. He might be the greatest kid around, but you never know. For me, the stakes are too high to put a little girl in a situation that even has the slightest possibility of putting her at risk.

You have a son! Can you even believe in the possibility of his not being a molester?

For me, it's far more important that my children learn to treat people equally and do not discriminate based on sterotypes. That they weigh risks and benefits.

I do not look at every man and boy (or woman and girl, for that matter) as a potential molester. I use my instincts, am preparing my daughters for how to respond to inappropriate behavior, and seek a wide variety of caregivers.

But I refuse--REFUSE--to look at every man like a potential molester or to treat them that way. I think we need more men in our schools and daycares and pre-schools among children, so that kids know what normal men act like.

You knew you'd get flak, but I do beg you to reconsider your attitude towards men. What about your husband? Would you trust him with another child?


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## Cutie Patootie (Feb 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EdnaMarie* 
You have a son! Can you even believe in the possibility of his not being a molester?

For me, it's far more important that my children learn to treat people equally and do not discriminate based on sterotypes. That they weigh risks and benefits.

I do not look at every man and boy (or woman and girl, for that matter) as a potential molester. I use my instincts, am preparing my daughters for how to respond to inappropriate behavior, and seek a wide variety of caregivers.

But I refuse--REFUSE--to look at every man like a potential molester or to treat them that way. I think we need more men in our schools and daycares and pre-schools among children, so that kids know what normal men act like.

You knew you'd get flak, but I do beg you to reconsider your attitude towards men. What about your husband? Would you trust him with another child?

I feel the same as naturallove. The gender difference alone would affect my comfort level with the idea. Believing in the possibility that he may not be a molester has nothing to do with it.







But...that's me. I don't allow anyone to watch my kids but my mother.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:

The gender difference alone would affect my comfort level with the idea. Believing in the possibility that he may not be a molester has nothing to do with it.
I guess I don't understand what you mean.

On the one hand, the gender is an issue. Why? Why would gender make a difference, if it's not about the possibility of being a molester?

I do not want to make light the possibility of being molested. However I think that we need to look at how we can make our children safer no matter where they end up. Again, emphasizing open communication, appropriate touch, how to call us if they are scared, etc. etc.

Little girls and boys are both at risk in all kinds of situation, if you're looking at *any* level of risk. Daycare (women or men). School. Playing in the yard. The world is full of risks.

What makes me sad is that all men are vetted as potential molesters based on gender alone.

I can see only letting your mom watch them. If you have that option, who can blame you for choosing the best of the best every time? But then you add, "the gender difference alone..."


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## sahli29 (Jan 23, 2004)

No I would not.Given the right circumstances very nice people commit sexual acts they would might normally never do.Urges happen.

Statisticly men do molest more often.Unfortunate,but that is how it is.Perhaps it has to do with a hormonal drive,but women are not always the safe haven we expect them to be.I recently saw Tyler Perry speak about his childhood sexual abusers,and one of then had been a woman.

Sometimes you just have to take a chance and hope for the best.Thankfully I have never had the need for a sitter,but there were other circumstances where I had to put my trust in others.

Best wishes whatever you decide!


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## IntuitiveJamie (Jun 24, 2006)

The age doesn't bother me. I started being a Mother's helper at 9 and full fledged babysitter at 11.

The gender does bother me. It bothers me to say that, but it is what it is. I completely understand women can molest too, but I agree with whomever said that statistically it's male's. I am also a survivor myself, therefore extra sensitive to it.


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## kgianforti (May 22, 2009)

No way. I went to a Child Abuse class with the police department and the detective conducting the class advised against teenage boys watching little girls. Of course, he's seen it all including teenage boys molesting little girls.

So, no way.


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## kgianforti (May 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Naturallove* 
I am prepared to get flack for this, but I would under no circumstance allow a teenage boy to babysit a girl. I think it is inappropriate. He might be the greatest kid around, but you never know. For me, the stakes are too high to put a little girl in a situation that even has the slightest possibility of putting her at risk.

No flack! Total agreement - see my post above.


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## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

"But I refuse--REFUSE--to look at every man like a potential molester or to treat them that way. I think we need more men in our schools and daycares and pre-schools among children, so that kids know what normal men act like."
























Here's the question I DO ask myself, when it comes to male sitters/nannies/au pairs/pediatric nurses/preschool teachers - what is going on with this guy that makes him willing to put himself out there as wanting to be a children's caregiver in a society that demeans and pathologizes men who do such work?

In the OP's case, the answer may be that this one of a limited number of jobs his OWN parents will allow him to take, because they know and trust the OP, and that the friendly relationship he has with OP's daughter mitigates the anti-caregiver social message.

Normal thirteen year old boys have sexual urges, all right - BUT NOT TO HURT LITTLE CHILDREN. Good grief.

If a thirteen-year-old boy were being asked to babysit Jessica Alba, then maybe we could have have a conversation about not creating inappropriate access to temptation.


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## bella99 (Sep 25, 2008)

It would be a maturity issue for me. Only adult friends or family members have babysat my daughter. But I babysat at 13 with no problems, and I believe that some, not all, 13 year olds are fully capable of providing appropriate care and supervision.

Yes, statistically speaking, men are more likely to perpetrate sexual abuse against children, boys and girls. But then again, if we're speaking statistically, there are more children in foster care and more cps prevention cases, because of abuse and/or neglect caused by mothers, and I wouldn't expect people to treat every women differently in light of those statistics.

Ever hear the saying "lies, damn lies, and statistics"? Numbers are great, but they lose their value when people start judging individuals based solely on those numbers.

OP, if you know this boy and trust him and feel he's responsible enough, then I'd say go for it


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## WorldsBestMom (Dec 3, 2009)

A 13 year old boy babysitting a 5 year old girl. Hmmmm ... The issue of TRUST comes up I don't care how long I know him for. However if one does get a BabySitter in general whether *Male or Female*, one should let their 5 year olds or any young child as a matter of fact know that if anything strange or uncomfortable occurs they should tell *Mommy or Daddy* about it.

At the end of the day we need to make or children feel comfortable to come and talk to us about anything. That way we will be aware of any potential situations that might develop.


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## Multimomma (Jan 25, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *quietmim* 
A 13 year old wouldn't bother me if I trusted them.

As far as the gender, the truth is you do never know. I sadly have experience with a female babysitter who inflicted severe abuse on her charges, of both sexes.

This is why, I would really have to know anyone who I would leave my child with.











My eldest son was abused by an adult woman. I think the tendency to distrust men and think that women are some golden ideal, is ironic at best. Perhaps because women provide the largest percentage of care, most abuse towards children is perpetrated by women, even if we hear about the most horrendous things done by men.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Smithie* 

If a thirteen-year-old boy were being asked to babysit Jessica Alba, then maybe we could have have a conversation about not creating inappropriate access to temptation.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

The statistics are based on criminal records. Female abusers are rarely even investigated because the victims don't report or aren't believed. The statistics don`t tell us anything except societies own bias.


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## Tigeresse (Nov 19, 2001)

At this point in my life, I *really* need to know anyone I leave my children with, male or female.

My oldest son, at age 16, was being groomed by a trusted, female, adult friend of mine. It took thinking in terms of their relationship with the genders reversed to really understand what was happening. Just goes to show I had the perception that it could not possibly be because my friend was a female mother of 2. So not true! If she had been a man and my son a girl I'm sure we would have put an end to it much sooner. Instead my ds was subject to this subtle abuse for possibly months longer than he needed to be.

Being female no longer earns automatic trust in my book.


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## ErinYay (Aug 21, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
The statistics are based on criminal records. Female abusers are rarely even investigated because the victims don't report or aren't believed. The statistics don`t tell us anything except societies own bias.

Marlee Matlin, the actress, wrote in her autobiography of being sexually assaulted by her babysitter, who was female. Her book was the first she spoke of it.


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## dakotablue (Jun 21, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mattemma04* 

Statisticly men do molest more often.Unfortunate,but that is how it is.Perhaps it has to do with a hormonal drive,but women are not always the safe haven we expect them to be.I recently saw Tyler Perry speak about his childhood sexual abusers,and one of then had been a woman.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
The statistics are based on criminal records. Female abusers are rarely even investigated because the victims don't report or aren't believed. The statistics don`t tell us anything except societies own bias.

I learned about this in my abnormal psycho class. Women molesters aren't caught very often (almost never) because people often will push aside and just consider things to be maternal.

Examples, a women who always changes a childs clothes whenever in her care. With a man, this would raise a little red flag of Oh...this seems a little odd. With a women, Oh she just likes him clean. Same thing for children who get washed frequently when being watched by someone if it were a man we'd wonder why is he always getting our child naked, women not so much.

I'm not saying that these can't be normal or explained behaviors, just that a man doing these things raises an eyebrow, which leads to further investigation where as a women would just get over looked.


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## tireesix (Apr 27, 2006)

I wasn't sexually abused by a child minder but I did have my female child minder act abusively towards me, haul me off to her dealers house, leave me a lone with her boyfriends etc. She wasn't 13 but I guess I am just trying to say, sex doesn't really matter, oth sexes have capabilities for abuse (my mum was abusive also but then I was sexually abused by a brother..... I distrust both sexes equally lol).

I don't know, if I knew the boy and trusted him then why not, my girls are vocal and very likely to say something if something happens, we are a very open family. I really don't think I have an issue with a boy baby sitting.


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## mamaofprincesses (Jun 5, 2007)

Well, I let a 14 year old boy babysit my daughters when they were 4 and 2. I didn't worry a bit about him being inappropriate or irresponsible. His parents lived in the same apartment complex, I knew him well, and it went great.


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## Naturallove (Oct 9, 2010)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EdnaMarie* 
You have a son! Can you even believe in the possibility of his not being a molester?

For me, it's far more important that my children learn to treat people equally and do not discriminate based on sterotypes. That they weigh risks and benefits.

I do not look at every man and boy (or woman and girl, for that matter) as a potential molester. I use my instincts, am preparing my daughters for how to respond to inappropriate behavior, and seek a wide variety of caregivers.

But I refuse--REFUSE--to look at every man like a potential molester or to treat them that way. I think we need more men in our schools and daycares and pre-schools among children, so that kids know what normal men act like.

You knew you'd get flak, but I do beg you to reconsider your attitude towards men. What about your husband? Would you trust him with another child?

That is quite the straw man argument you built yourself...

For me the issue is *not* that he is a male, it's that he is a *13 year old male*.

You are right, I have 2 sons and I will not allow them to babysit little girls when they are in their early teens, later teens perhaps. I firmly believe that the best way to not be tempted is to stay away from temptation. For boys sexual curiosity is really peaking between 12-16 and I would never put my children in a situation where that sort of temptation could occur.

I said that I felt it was inappropriate for a 13 year old boy to babysit a 5 year old girl, *not* that I view all men as potential molesters. (Frankly, I am not sure that I think 13 is old enough for a child to babysit another child at all.) Some of my favorite teachers growing up were men. When my children were in daycare briefly they had a male teacher whom they adored and we are still in contact with and we have a lot of male relatives and friends who are important figures in their lives that I would trust taking care of a child boy or girl.

We are a very open-minded people with a very diverse family tribe and we do not present any sort of stereo-types to our children. However, I would never put a child at risk (however, small that risk may be) of suffering the severe mental, emotional and potential physical trauma of molestation in an attempt make some sort of misguided-social statement. That risk to me far outweighs whatever minor benefit would be gained from the convenience of the sitter or the arm-breaking pat-on-the-back I could give myself for being so progressive and trusting.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:

For me the issue is not that he is a male, it's that he is a 13 year old male.

You are right, I have 2 sons and I will not allow them to babysit little girls when they are in their early teens, later teens perhaps. I firmly believe that the best way to not be tempted is to stay away from temptation. For boys sexual curiosity is really peaking between 12-16 and I would never put my children in a situation where that sort of temptation could occur.
Wow. Okay. So you think that most thirteen-year-olds have a propensity to experiment with children?

I just don't get that. I don't think most teenage boys are tempted by children. Just like gay boys aren't tempted by girls at school, and straight boys aren't tempted by boys, hardly any teens are tempted by children.

And I do think that you are stereotyping boys here, that they are somehow more likely to be child molesters than teen girls. It's not that most men, when young, would do anything. Oh, they might use various tools for self-stimulation, but I think we can *all* distinguish between an inanimate object and a CHILD. Most males are interested in women of prime reproductive age, namely, between 14 and 25. A good 10% or so are interested in other males of prime reproductive age. Or thereabouts.

Not in kids!

Quote:

(Frankly, I am not sure that I think 13 is old enough for a child to babysit another child at all.)
Well there's another difference in our opinions.


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## Multimomma (Jan 25, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Naturallove* 
I firmly believe that the best way to not be tempted is to stay away from temptation. For boys sexual curiosity is really peaking between 12-16 and I would never put my children in a situation where that sort of temptation could occur.

So you don't think girls have sexual curiosity? Or you think girls won't be tempted by young children?


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## Tigeresse (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Naturallove* 

You are right, I have 2 sons and I will not allow them to babysit little girls when they are in their early teens, later teens perhaps. I firmly believe that the best way to not be tempted is to stay away from temptation. For boys sexual curiosity is really peaking between 12-16 and I would never put my children in a situation where that sort of temptation could occur.

What if you're 3rd child is a girl? Will you leave her alone with her brothers when they are teens?

There has to be something else going on that would cause a teen boy to be tempted/aroused by a younger child. I just don't believe teenage male=inappropriate urges and actions.


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

I babysat at 13. That said, I would really have to know ANY person of ANY gender and know their maturity level.

The thing that would get me is what a PP said about having an opposite-sex person help in the bathroom, wiping butts if needed. While it doesn't happen much at 5, it could, and I wouldn't want DD being helped by an opposite-gender person.

I would feel the same way about daycare or preschool--I'd want either 2 people in the changing/bathrooms or the guy to help the boys. Not because I think all men will do something to a girl, but because I feel that's more appropriate in general if it's available. (and we always did 2 adults changing when I worked in the school dist. with special needs kiddos--that or when i did preschool the changing table was in total view of anyone who came in the bathroom, and the central bathroom was shared by 5 classrooms so it was a BUSY place.) oh there *were* other bathrooms the kids could use and the toilet was curtained.

even us like when we go out or something, I take DD if she needs to go to the bathroom if I'm there. DH takes DS if we're all together. (though that's partly to avoid embarrasing questions about men at urinals by DD I guess







)


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## PoetryLover (Jan 8, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Naturallove* 
I am prepared to get flack for this, but I would under no circumstance allow a teenage boy to babysit a girl. I think it is inappropriate. He might be the greatest kid around, but you never know. For me, the stakes are too high to put a little girl in a situation that even has the slightest possibility of putting her at risk.

I wonder why being male obviously makes one more likely to molest in people's minds. Teenage girls babysit boys all the time. I wouldn't leave my child with anyone I didn't fully trust--period. And by the age of 5, I would have a talk with my child about inappropriate touching and that they can ALWAYS talk to me and I will ALWAYS believe them. Why mistrust a teen because they happen to be the opposite gender? Besides, what I understand of pedophiles is that they are attracted to little children. They will molest either or both genders. Having a child with a same sex babysitter doesn't necessarily protect them from sexual abuse.

I took a babysitter's course when I was 13, complete with CPR. I was a responsible 13. I babysat anywhere from 2-4 children at a time. I usually had one of my sisters babysit with me and split the money. Both my sisters who babysat with me had taken the same course. Meanwhile, I wouldn't trust my nearly 14 year old stepdaughter to stay at home with my 11 year old stepdaughter at this point because of how they fight. I may trust my 11 year old stepdaughter to babysit her little brother for a short period in a year or two. It really depends on the particular child, how well you know them, how mature and ready to accept responsibility they are. My older sister was horribly mean to my younger sisters, and even at 17, should never have been left alone with them. It's all relative.


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## Naturallove (Oct 9, 2010)

I am going to say what I should have said to EdnaMarie initially. We clearly have different opinions. There is no need for personal attacks. The OP asked for opinions on the matter and I gave mine.


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## Cutie Patootie (Feb 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EdnaMarie* 
I guess I don't understand what you mean.

On the one hand, the gender is an issue. Why? Why would gender make a difference, if it's not about the possibility of being a molester?

I do not want to make light the possibility of being molested. However I think that we need to look at how we can make our children safer no matter where they end up. Again, emphasizing open communication, appropriate touch, how to call us if they are scared, etc. etc.

Little girls and boys are both at risk in all kinds of situation, if you're looking at *any* level of risk. Daycare (women or men). School. Playing in the yard. The world is full of risks.

What makes me sad is that all men are vetted as potential molesters based on gender alone.

I can see only letting your mom watch them. If you have that option, who can blame you for choosing the best of the best every time? But then you add, "the gender difference alone..."


It is what it is. Same reason why there are separate gender bathrooms. I don't want a 13yo boy helping to wipe my dd's bottom. There is no need. It's not that I think all men are potential molesters, but it's just not necessary. Same reason why I wouldn't expect my dh to help wipe a 30yo womens rear. I'm fairly sure he could keep from molesting her







, but it's just unnecessary. Boys/Men are visual and a butt and vagina is a butt and vagina. Whether or not I feel the same way about women or 13yo girls makes no difference as that was not the question posed by the op.


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## ErinYay (Aug 21, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cutie Patootie* 
Boys/Men are visual and a butt and vagina is a butt and vagina.

I'll be sure to let my OB know I have to drop him because his sex makes him incapable of seeing me in a non-sexual light.

And my daughter's pediatrician, who is male, will get the same letter. If he's in a job where he regularly examines babies' and kids' bodies, he must have an ulterior motive.


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## Cutie Patootie (Feb 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ErinYay* 
I'll be sure to let my OB know I have to drop him because his sex makes him incapable of seeing me in a non-sexual light.

And my daughter's pediatrician, who is male, will get the same letter. If he's in a job where he regularly examines babies' and kids' bodies, he must have an ulterior motive.

Thanks for the sarcasm. It's so useful in these conversations...mature as well.
FYI, because obviously you didn't know, that an OB and a ped. are necessary, a 13yo babysitter is not.


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## ErinYay (Aug 21, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cutie Patootie* 
Thanks for the sarcasm. It's so useful in these conversations...mature as well.
FYI, because obviously you didn't know, that an OB and a ped. are necessary, a 13yo babysitter is not.

Male medical providers are no more necessary than male babysitters.

I don't see how you can segregate one job by sex and no others. Being male isn't a crime, and I feel strongly that it's damaging to kids to treat it as such.


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## Cutie Patootie (Feb 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ErinYay* 
Male medical providers are no more necessary than male babysitters.

I don't see how you can segregate one job by sex and no others. Being male isn't a crime, and I feel strongly that it's damaging to kids to treat it as such.

Call it what you want, but segregating has nothing to do with whether or not I choose a *13yo* boy or girl to babysit my children.
It's a good thing then that I am the mother of my own household since we disagree.


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## Petie1104 (Oct 26, 2010)

Ok, so as is typical with me, when faced with a topic that involves the general age of my children, I ask in hypothetical questions how they feel about it. So, I asked my 13 yr. old if he got offered to babysit a 5 yr. old girl, would he take the job. He asked, "how much does it pay". I told him, "I don't know, more than you make babysitting for us (which is nothing)". He said, that he would take the job. Then I asked how he would feel helping with things like wiping their butt. His response, "ewwww I'd have to wipe her butt." So, no joyous, "yeah I get to see her butt" but a disgusting, how gross kind of thing. Basically, he has no interest in a 5 yr old girl.

Now, I won't leave him alone with his 13 yr. old girlfriend because I'm positive that he is interested in exploring her sexually.

Honestly, this whole argument that boys, even at 13 are willing to experiment with children that they see as just little kids seems, ummm, ridiculous to me. Unless there is something causing them to be like that, like any molester, such as previous abuse, or mental issues, I honestly don't think there is an issue.

Our 13 yr. old watches our kids regularly. He changed dd's diapers when she was little, and he was only 7 or 8 then. He's been around it so much that I think he's immuned to any "wow, that's what girls look like". He doesn't think of little kids as being attractive or interesting in that way.

For those who are concerned, it is your family, and if you aren't comfortable, then I don't think my dss would be comfortable working for you. I think he'd want whoever he worked for to not look at him with suspicion and distrust. So what I'm saying is, find a babysitter that works for your family. I wouldn't hold it against you for not hiring a boy, but please know that not all boys are out to get your little girls.


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## Smokering (Sep 5, 2007)

Personally, no. It's illegal here for a child under 14 to be left alone, in a babysitting capacity or even by himself.


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## beckyand3littlemonsters (Sep 16, 2006)

normally i would say no because to me a 13 year old be it girl or boy is not old enough to look after a 5 year but in the situation you have described maybe if i wasn't going to be gone long


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cutie Patootie* 
It is what it is. Same reason why there are separate gender bathrooms. I don't want a 13yo boy helping to wipe my dd's bottom. There is no need. It's not that I think all men are potential molesters, but it's just not necessary. Same reason why I wouldn't expect my dh to help wipe a 30yo womens rear. I'm fairly sure he could keep from molesting her







, but it's just unnecessary.

I can't even begin to see how you can put these in the same category. A 30 year old woman does not, in the normal course of events, need _anyone_ to help wipe her butt. If she _did_ need that help, she could end up with a male doing so (although it's certainly more common for the reverse to happen, in special needs situations). What do the two have to do with each other?

Quote:

Boys/Men are visual and a butt and vagina is a butt and vagina.
I'm not sure I'm following your point here. Are you saying that boys/men, because they're visual (I've seen multiple studies now that say this is not true, and that women are just as visual as men, btw - don't know if it's true, but I do know that I respond strongly to visual stimuli), will react to a prepubescent butt or vagina the same way they react to a mature butt or vagina?

Male babysitters aren't an issue for me. DS1 (17.5) is my go-to babysitter. As he now has a job, and isn't free that often, there are a couple of his friends I would ask. My preferences are for four teens - two boys and two girls. My first choice is a boy, and the two girls are in the middle. (I trust them all about equally, but the one boy is _amazing_ with my kids, and I think the other boy is probably the most scatter-brained of the four. He wouldn't hurt my kids...but he might leave my oven on or flood my kitchen.) I personally never had a male babysitter, but most of the people I know who had both as kids prefered the males. They said they were more fun.


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## madskye (Feb 20, 2006)

My friends son has babysat for us. He's a wonderful kid, and great with her. None of the negative issues other posters have brought up EVER factored into my thinking. I'm kind of shocked to read a lot of this, to be honest.


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## mum4vr (Jan 31, 2007)

ok, OP-- for me it's case by case. If the boy makes you feel weird or hesitate, or post on here and ask us, then no-- you're not TOTALLY comfortable with him if you're asking.

There are 13 yo boys I would let bbsit, and those I wouldn't for a variety of reasons, maturity, red flags, respect for boundaries in general, how his parents treated him (and thus how he has a reasonable expectation to believe "this is how children are treated"), etc.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mattemma04* 
Statisticly men do molest more often.Unfortunate,but that is how it is.Perhaps it has to do with a hormonal drive,but women are not always the safe haven we expect them to be.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
The statistics are based on criminal records. Female abusers are rarely even investigated because the victims don't report or aren't believed. The statistics don`t tell us anything except societies own bias.

actually, as long as any abuse goes unreported there is just no way to know who abuses more often. It could very well be that men abuse more often-- maybe it is not society's bias-- it could be true. It may be that women abuse more often. It may be so under-reported that female abusers are a hidden majority. It may be roughly equal, but this was way off topic to the original poster's question...


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## odenata (Feb 1, 2005)

I wouldn't let a 13 year old boy or girl watch my kids. I don't think they are old enough, partly because I was considered a mature 13 year old and babysat at that age, and looking back, I realize how much I didn't know, and how unprepared I would have been for any real emergency.


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## Mom2M (Sep 23, 2006)

This has been an interesting thread to me because of all the opinions and reasons for them. Of course now I'll take the opportunity to give mine!

I used to babysit from the time I was 12 and this was at a resort that offered in house babysitting. I also took jobs in the neighborhood.
I have to admit to getting a little scared at night and hoping the parents would get home soon because it was very dark outside and a rural area.

Anyway, I took care of boys and girls and had to do diapers and sometimes wipe butts and it never occurred to me that this in any way was sexual!
It was just stinky and something to get done as soon as possible.
For kids that were that old (5 years), boys or girls, I remember standing at the door of the bathroom and just asking if they needed help getting toilet paper or whatever but they did it themselves.
I just don't think it would really come up unless you were gone for a long time and she had to do more than just pee.

My DD is 5 years old and takes care of wiping by herself mostly though does ask for help with poop sometimes.
If I had a 13 year old boy babysitting DD, she would not want him or anyone besides me coming in to help anyway. But I really can't imagine a 13 year old boy being more likely to sexually experiment with a 5 year old girl any more than a 13 year old girl would.

A boy who has gone through a babysitting class sounds pretty responsible and is probably looking for the only work available for a boy his age. Even paper routes are mostly going to drivers instead of kids walking them.

As far as wiping women's butts, my husband is a nurse and I can guarantee you that he does not get sexually excited over it, it is his job.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SweetPotato* 
How would you feel about this? If he has taken a safe-sitter/child cpr class, you know the parents very well, and he's a very sweet, responsible kid whom your daughter adores? Would the gender difference alone affect your comfort level with the idea?

If he is sweet, responsible and trustworthy, and you normally leave your child with a 13 year old sitter, then the gender shouldn't affect your choice.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Its not that I feel every man is a molester. But there are just some things I would not be comfortable having a man/boy help my daughters with. There are things I would not have been comfortable with at 5 and doubt any of my daughters would have been comfortable with. I just think it is better for girls to have female caregivers in matter that might involve personal help. I will only have a female Dr and nurses, and I can't think of anything else but anything that may involve touching me or helping me change clothes or go to the bathroom or anything that I would feel caused me to be immodest....only other women. Same for my dd and I think a babysitter fits into that category. And I think I would prefer a male babysitter if I had preschool+ aged sons. You know, because some things just be handled among men.

And if I had a son I would probably not let him baby sit at all. It is so easy for people to accuse and it just doesn't seem very safe for him. But then again none of my dds babysit and I probably wouldn't let them either. Just too many risks being left alone with a child who, if mad enough at their babysitter could accuse. And in educating our children in what is bad touching and what is good touching and tell until someone believes you etc we really also teach them how to quickly get even with a babysitter/family member they are mad at (I know someone who did it. To this day the guilt eats away at him. ) If you are boy that risk is just so high. I would maybe let my son babysit another boy but definitely not a girl. why invite trouble?


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum4vr* 
actually, as long as any abuse goes unreported there is just no way to know who abuses more often. It could very well be that men abuse more often-- maybe it is not society's bias-- it could be true. It may be that women abuse more often. It may be so under-reported that female abusers are a hidden majority. It may be roughly equal, but this was way off topic to the original poster's question...

Is it? The OP was asking if you'd let a 13 year old boy babysit a 5 year old girl. Some posters say no because they believe that men are statistically more likely to abuse a child, so I say the statistics don't tell people squat.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cutie Patootie* 
Boys/Men are visual and a butt and vagina is a butt and vagina.

You know, on a closer look, this makes no sense to me. A butt and a vagina are a butt and vagina to a girl too. What else would it be? An arm and a leg? A thirteen year old boy is no more likely to see a naked 5 year old and think "sex" than a thirteen year old girl is to look at a 5 year old boy and think "sex".


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## just_lily (Feb 29, 2008)

When I was 5 my older brothers were 12 and 13 and would sit for me all the time. We all survived, and nobody got molested. My brothers would even have to give me baths. They would sit for other families from time to time, but for the most part they weren't very interested.

What would make me stop and think on the gender thing is that, on average, girls are much more mature at 13 than most boys. But this isn't an accross the board thing, so I would absolutely consider on a case by case basis.

If I were to have a 13yo babysitter of either gender I would want them to have experience with either younger siblings or cousins, or have worked in the kids program at our church or something. I wouldn't want my kid to be their first time looking after another child.

All of our sitters tend to belong to our church, and be members of families we know well. My DD would only be comfortable with someone that she knows well, so that is a consideration as well. But not gender. There are a number of boys I would be very willing to leave DD with, but for the most part they aren't interested (we have hired them to do some yardwork for us, which seems more up their alley).

On the whole, I would much rather have a 13yo boy who plays with my kid, than a 16yo girl who just texts all night.


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## Smokering (Sep 5, 2007)

Quote:

You know, on a closer look, this makes no sense to me. A butt and a vagina are a butt and vagina to a girl too. What else would it be? An arm and a leg? A thirteen year old boy is no more likely to see a naked 5 year old and think "sex" than a thirteen year old girl is to look at a 5 year old boy and think "sex".
Indeed. I don't see that a 5-year-old girl's bottom looks any different from a 5-year-old boy's, if it comes to that - the differences don't show up until puberty, when girls' hips widen. And a prepubescent vagina looks nothing like a post-pubescent one. So... I don't get it.

I mean, _some_ boys molest animals, but I wouldn't say that asking a teenage boy to pet-sit was automatically leading him into temptation. If he wasn't that way inclined, I don't see how being in close proximity to an animal would _be_ temptation. It would be... irrelevant.


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## APToddlerMama (Oct 5, 2009)

I just have to add my two cents. First, I have a son, and in no way do I think it is typical for boys to be molesting kids. BUT, having worked professionally in the child welfare field and also with survivors of sexual abuse, it seems that the statistics are correct and abusers are typically male. The stats aren't based just on criminal reports...to whoever suggested that is why they are skewed.

I am extremely leary of leaving anyone with my child, and a great deal of that is because of my work experience. There is NO WAY I would leave my five year old girl or my five year old boy with a 13 year old boy. No way. Never. Partly because of age, but also gender.

I really see what people are trying to say with refusing to look at all men as perpetrators, and that is just wonderful, but there is no way that I would put my child's safety as a lower priority than refusing to look at males as potential perpetrators. At one point, I was interviewing adults as part of a separate project and this was a random group of adults...and probably a third or so of them had been sexually abused. All that I can recall were abused by family members or babysitters (including one female babysitter...the rest all males). I just wouldn't risk it.

Last, I have to point out that most definitely it is good to prep your kid on appropriate touching, open communication, etc, but the bottom line is that even *child* sex offenders are *very* good at telling their victims things that make the child way way way too scared to tell anyone. So I wouldn't bank on Johnny or Sally saying "hang on a second. this isn't okay and I'm calling my mom now" and using that as a strategy. That is about as unrealistic of a scenario as I can think of. Good luck with your decision.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
You know, on a closer look, this makes no sense to me. A butt and a vagina are a butt and vagina to a girl too. What else would it be? An arm and a leg? A thirteen year old boy is no more likely to see a naked 5 year old and think "sex" than a thirteen year old girl is to look at a 5 year old boy and think "sex".

Yes, yes, yes, yes, YES.

Men and boys are not perverts by definition.

There is a difference between people that prey on children and those that like other adults of reproductive age!

Now, I would NOT leave two teens or a teen and a pre-teen that was clearly entering puberty together. As a babysitter/child couple or just... you know. LOL!

But normal boys and girls do not look at children as sexual objects.

I am leery of any statistic that suggest that 1/3 of people have been molested. I'm going to ask. I have never seen such a number. Not sure where this was or what else these people had in common or the definition of molestation, but that number is incredibly high. And I mean "incredible" literally.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

I am a survivor of abuse, perpetrated by another child, my brother.

For me 13 is too young. WAY too young. 16...maybe, but 17 or 18 would be a more realistic minimum for me.

Male vs. female....i'd need to know the teenager AND his/her family to call that one. My friend's son is 15 and i can imagine at 17 or so i would trust him to look after 5+yo kids. My DD rarely needs help with the toilet and if she did i know he would assist her with mild distaste and get it over with as quick as possible. But i know him, and i know his folks/family and their dynamic. His mum is a MW (was MY MW) and he's used to the female form in all its various forms, i wouldn't be concerned that he would see a butt and think "oh my i gotta investigate" when wiping down my 5yo. There is a woman, a grown woman, in my family i would never leave my kids with, because she is toxic. I don't think she would sexually molest specifically, but i wouldn't put any kind of abuse past her. I do not trust her, she feels "icky" to me in my gut. Our neighbour's DD is 18 or 19 and i would leave DD with her in a heartbeat. I know her family, i know her, she's responsible and kind, DD loves her, there would be no worries for me. If i had to pick between my friends DS and my neighbours DD i'd chose my neighbours DD, but that's mainly because MY DD would want to play dolls, put on nail varnish and sparkles and play dancing and i think my neighbours DD would enjoy that more than the friend's DS.

A lot can be said about abuse and risk assessment and so on. I think EVERYONE should read Protecting The Gift. And beyond that you need to know who the people you're leaving kids with are, where they come from (family dynamics) and above all, be willing to reassess them at any stage. Most abuse occurs because a parent considers someone once, decides they're ok, and then refuses to re-examine that opinion even in the face of quite scary information. For example my parents decided our headmaster of the elementary school was a fine babysitter. They decided when they found a 16-year-old foreign exchange student who was staying with that man hysterically sobbing in his home and begging them not to tell anyone that "he must be gay then and they've had a tiff" (WTF? He was SIXTEEN and hundreds of miles from his home and family!) and continued to leave us there. My brother was another victim of this man and i was a victim of my brother. People will go to incredible lengths to avoid looking at the ugly thing right in front of their faces. It is no good, really, assuming that every teenage boy might molest, when what you need to do is ADMIT when you suspect a good, loved, wonderful teenage boy you thought you knew is doing so.


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## ErinYay (Aug 21, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EdnaMarie* 

I am leery of any statistic that suggest that 1/3 of people have been molested. I'm going to ask. I have never seen such a number. Not sure where this was or what else these people had in common or the definition of molestation, but that number is incredibly high. And I mean "incredible" literally.

There's a stat floating around that 1 in 3 women have been sexually assaulted, but it was derived from a study many find flawed. (Link to a Christina Hoff Sommers article- she's not exactly a Friedan-feminist.)

For those who think boys should have no part in babysitting/childcare, what do you plan on doing when your sons become fathers? Will you still worry that any contact with a child's genitals will lead to molestation or temptation?

It's just plain unfair to limit the responsibilities and roles of boys for fear of inappropriate behavior while still expecting them to grow up as healthy, functioning men.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Let's see.

I do believe that men molest more often than women. The statistics might be off, but not by that much.

I used to babysit at 13 for kids who were about 5 and nobody thought 13 was too young in the early 80s.

I have a friend whose teenage son has babysat my girls, including the one who still needs diapers changed. I was not worried that he would molest my kids. He's a great babysitter.


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## kblackstone444 (Jun 17, 2007)

I have a 16 year old son and another son due in January. It makes me sad that they will be growing up in a world where there are people who will discriminate against them and assume that they are suspicious of being child abusers just because they happened to be born with a penis.


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## Petie1104 (Oct 26, 2010)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ErinYay* 
There's a stat floating around that 1 in 3 women have been sexually assaulted, but it was derived from a study many find flawed. (Link to a Christina Hoff Sommers article- she's not exactly a Friedan-feminist.)

For those who think boys should have no part in babysitting/childcare, what do you plan on doing when your sons become fathers? Will you still worry that any contact with a child's genitals will lead to molestation or temptation?

It's just plain unfair to limit the responsibilities and roles of boys for fear of inappropriate behavior while still expecting them to grow up as healthy, functioning men.

You know, this is sad, but i hate to say it, it is not the first time I have been faced with this same attitude. When dh was contemplating his options after retiring from the military, he considered getting his degree in early childhood development. He wanted to open a daycare. I posed the question on a board as to who would leave their child in a daycare run by a man, just to see what women thought. I only had about 4 people say that it wouldn't bother them to leave their child their. The other 20 or so other people said they would question why any man would want to spend all day with kids. It was sad, one woman said she questions when her dh played with her children and insisted that a man does not enjoy those things and he must be pretending to enjoy it so the kids would be happy. This attitude seems to be really prevalent.

By the way, dh loves kids. He just does, he loves playing with them, he's more gentle than I am, and he is most definately NOT a molester.


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## Marissamom (Dec 17, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Petie1104* 
You know, this is sad, but i hate to say it, it is not the first time I have been faced with this same attitude. When dh was contemplating his options after retiring from the military, he considered getting his degree in early childhood development. He wanted to open a daycare. I posed the question on a board as to who would leave their child in a daycare run by a man, just to see what women thought. I only had about 4 people say that it wouldn't bother them to leave their child their. The other 20 or so other people said they would question why any man would want to spend all day with kids. It was sad, one woman said she questions when her dh played with her children and insisted that a man does not enjoy those things and he must be pretending to enjoy it so the kids would be happy. This attitude seems to be really prevalent.

By the way, dh loves kids. He just does, he loves playing with them, he's more gentle than I am, and he is most definately NOT a molester.

That's so sad about the woman questioning her own husband. I can totally see opening a daycare a dream for some men. especially if they have kids who are still daycare age, because they could be there for their own children as well. I grew up with a dad who is baby-crazy, as much as the women in my family(and I swear we are the most baby-crazy people I have ever met). and DF has been a stay-at-home dad most of DD's life, though he is more of a kid person than a baby person


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## oaktreemama (Oct 12, 2010)

For me age is the factor, not the gender.


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## jeminijad (Mar 27, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mattemma04* 
No I would not.Given the right circumstances very nice people commit sexual acts they would might normally never do.Urges happen.


Yep.

My brother and I were babysat by a 15 year old boy. We were 6 & 8. He was just the sweetest kid, everyone loved him.

He layed on the couch, took off his belt, and told us to play doctor with him. He encouraged us towards certain regions that needed "help."

I am not interested in placing my tiny daughter in a position of potential risk to uphold some ideological notion that we must not ever imply that a male might be a molester.


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## jeminijad (Mar 27, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kblackstone444* 
I have a 16 year old son and another son due in January. It makes me sad that they will be growing up in a world where there are people who will discriminate against them and assume that they are suspicious of being child abusers just because they happened to be born with a penis.









Most generally, those of us who are cautious about leaving defenseless girls with young men do so because we have had a specific experience (or multiple experiences) that have taught us to feel that way.

It isn't discrimination. Do you voluntarily walk through a bad neighborhood at night, creating a situation for greater than usual likelihood for potential harm, to prove that you don't discriminate against minorities/the impoverished/etc?


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## jeminijad (Mar 27, 2009)

My last thought- I'll stop serial posting after this- is that I may allow a 13 year old girl to watch my 5 year old. Maybe. I would have to know the girl very well. I cared for my infant brother at that age.


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## ErinYay (Aug 21, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeminijad* 
Most generally, those of us who are cautious about leaving defenseless girls with young men do so because we have had a specific experience (or multiple experiences) that have taught us to feel that way.

It isn't discrimination. Do you voluntarily walk through a bad neighborhood at night, creating a situation for greater than usual likelihood for potential harm, to prove that you don't discriminate against minorities/the impoverished/etc?

Those aren't analogous unless you see teen boys as being a risk in and of themselves, which it seems some of you do.


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## jeminijad (Mar 27, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ErinYay* 
Those aren't analogous unless you see teen boys as being a risk in and of themselves, which it seems some of you do.

I see them as riskier than other caretakers (post pubescent ones, generally,) in some situations, yes.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeminijad* 
Most generally, those of us who are cautious about leaving defenseless girls with young men do so because we have had a specific experience (or multiple experiences) that have taught us to feel that way.

It isn't discrimination. Do you voluntarily walk through a bad neighborhood at night, creating a situation for greater than usual likelihood for potential harm, to prove that you don't discriminate against minorities/the impoverished/etc?

Than I may as well keep my kids away from all adult women. And adult men. Seeing as I was molested by both. I guess that leaves my children with... Um... I guess they can raise themselves.

Dh and I would rather make sure we trust any person who watches our children, regardless of gender, with the lives of our children.


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## ErinYay (Aug 21, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Than I may as well keep my kids away from all adult women. And adult men. Seeing as I was molested by both. I guess that leaves my children with... Um... I guess they can raise themselves.



I was not molested by anyone, so I suppose I can trust that weird guy in the clown suit who drives a panel van to babysit my daughter, since everything that happened or didn't happen to me will be the same for her.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."

I'm still curious how those who feel young men and boys are all potential molesters/rapists plan on raising confident men who will be good fathers who don't have their heads clouded with the idea that their mother is judging them for bathing or changing their own daughters.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EdnaMarie* 
Yes, yes, yes, yes, YES.

Men and boys are not perverts by definition.

There is a difference between people that prey on children and those that like other adults of reproductive age!

Now, I would NOT leave two teens or a teen and a pre-teen that was clearly entering puberty together. As a babysitter/child couple or just... you know. LOL!

But normal boys and girls do not look at children as sexual objects.

I am leery of any statistic that suggest that 1/3 of people have been molested. I'm going to ask. I have never seen such a number. Not sure where this was or what else these people had in common or the definition of molestation, but that number is incredibly high. And I mean "incredible" literally.

I don't find it incredible at all. While I'm sure there's a "we find each other" phenomenon at work, I had a large group of friends in high school, and almost all of the girls had been sexually abused at some point. This was by about age 15, so if you add in adult rape, I'm sure the number of women who have been molested is very high. And, ime, there are a significant number of boys who have been molested at an early age, as well.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Like I said, I believe that even if the statistics aren't 100% accurate, that there's something to them, and they clearly show that men molest children more than women, at least pre-pubescent children. I'm not sure if it's as clear in regard to post-pubescent children

However, it's still a minority of men. And women can still do it, and women have higher rates of other kinds of abuse. Sexual abuse is not the only traumatic abuse out there.

I really think this is a case of having to know the people who are watching your kids. You can't completely eliminate the risk of your kids every being hurt by anyone, but trusting no one is as useless as trusting everyone when evaluating real risk. You need to look at more than just the gender.

(And as I said, a teenage boy has babysat my dds, so I'm not opposed to male babysitters.)


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
You can't completely eliminate the risk of your kids every being hurt by anyone, but trusting no one is as useless as trusting everyone when evaluating real risk.

This. Well said.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:

Okay. So you think that most thirteen-year-olds have a propensity to experiment with children?

The deciding factor isn't about if *most* boys would do something, but rather if boys are more likely than girls to do something inappropriate.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Than I may as well keep my kids away from all adult women. And adult men. Seeing as I was molested by both. I guess that leaves my children with... Um... I guess they can raise themselves.











Quote:

Dh and I would rather make sure we trust any person who watches our children, regardless of gender, with the lives of our children.
I'm with you. I think getting hung up on gender misses the larger point of knowing the people you leave your children with.

If we were discussing any other trait, such as the race or religion of a baby sitter, even asking the question would be offensive.


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

This whole thread is sad.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ErinYay* 
For those who think boys should have no part in babysitting/childcare, what do you plan on doing when your sons become fathers? Will you still worry that any contact with a child's genitals will lead to molestation or temptation?

It's just plain unfair to limit the responsibilities and roles of boys for fear of inappropriate behavior while still expecting them to grow up as healthy, functioning men.

I wonder that too. My oldest loves babies and younger kids. He'd make an amazing babysitter once he's older. I'd be really shocked if our friends wouldn't let him watch their children just because he is a boy.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Linda on the move* 









I'm with you. I think getting hung up on gender misses the larger point of knowing the people you leave your children with.

If we were discussing any other trait, such as the race or religion of a baby sitter, even asking the question would be offensive.









Yep. It's just as bad as not hiring someone to babysit if they were of a particular race. It's awful.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I don't find it incredible at all. While I'm sure there's a "we find each other" phenomenon at work, I had a large group of friends in high school, and almost all of the girls had been sexually abused at some point. This was by about age 15, so if you add in adult rape, I'm sure the number of women who have been molested is very high. And, ime, there are a significant number of boys who have been molested at an early age, as well.

Statistics in the general population do not belie these numbers, thankfully.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EdnaMarie* 
Statistics in the general population do not belie these numbers, thankfully.

I'm not following you. I wasn't providing any numbers. I was simply relating my own experiences, with my own friends.

IME, people who haven't been molested as children are far more likely to find friends among other people who haven't been molested, while people who have been molested are more likely to find friends who have also been molested. (The same seems to apply to people with alcoholic/addict parents.) It's not conscious, and I've frequently seen someone tell their story years after establishing a friendship. It happens a _lot_.

I wasn't suggesting that most women have been molested, just because most of my friends have been. I was getting at the idea that, in social circles/peer groups where there aren't a lot of people with a history of sexual abuse, it's harder to believe that large numbers of people do have such a history. (That goes both ways. For a long time, it was hard for me to wrap my brain around the idea that the majoirity of people _don't_ have such a history.)


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## kblackstone444 (Jun 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeminijad* 
It isn't discrimination. Do you voluntarily walk through a bad neighborhood at night, creating a situation for greater than usual likelihood for potential harm, to prove that you don't discriminate against minorities/the impoverished/etc?

That's assuming that minorities/the impoverished are the only ones in the bad neighborhood. Instead of making the child molester/minority comparison, why don't you make a child molester/known felon as a babysitter comparison?

And for the record, yes, I've had avery bad experiences with a man (to put it delicately) and I was physically and verbally abused by a woman during my childhood. Funny, I don't blame all men, for what one man did, nor do I assume that every Mother on here beats their children or verbally humiliates their children, just because mine did. Nor do I believe that they are more likely to, because of their gender.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I don't find it incredible at all. While I'm sure there's a "we find each other" phenomenon at work, I had a large group of friends in high school, and almost all of the girls had been sexually abused at some point. This was by about age 15, so if you add in adult rape, I'm sure the number of women who have been molested is very high. And, ime, there are a significant number of boys who have been molested at an early age, as well.

I don't find it incredible either. I would say that of female friends that I've talked to, at least 1 in 4 _will admit_ to having an experience that can be defined as sexual assault - be it molestation as a child or rape/attempted rape/sexual harassment/unwanted sexual touching as an adult.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Oh, and to answer the question - gender wouldn't be an issue for me in chosing a babysitter. Although I actually _was_ molested by a young teen age boy, I still don't look at every boy that age and see a molester just waiting for the opportunity. Aside from that, I didn't need to be in the care of this child to be molested by him.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:

1 in 4 will admit to having an experience that can be defined as sexual assault - be it molestation as a child or rape/attempted rape/sexual harassment/unwanted sexual touching as an adult.
Well if we're grouping sexual harassment in the workplace with child molestation, I think we are going to have a lot of problems interpreting these statistics.

While equally abhorrent and unacceptable, the causes of sexual harassment in the workplace are very different from those that lead to molestation of children. Many people who would tease a woman at work would never dream of molesting a child.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

She didn't say "in the workplace". That was your own inference. Sexual harassment can occur anywhere, anytime to any age victim. Sexual harassment can include unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical harassment of a sexual nature.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EdnaMarie* 
Well if we're grouping sexual harassment in the workplace with child molestation, I think we are going to have a lot of problems interpreting these statistics.

While equally abhorrent and unacceptable, the causes of sexual harassment in the workplace are very different from those that lead to molestation of children. Many people who would tease a woman at work would never dream of molesting a child.

The one in three number is for any kind of sexual assault over a lifetime, so sexual harassment that includes touching would count, but I don't think verbal would count. But yes, not just molestation of children by a long shot.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EdnaMarie* 
Well if we're grouping sexual harassment in the workplace with child molestation, I think we are going to have a lot of problems interpreting these statistics.

While equally abhorrent and unacceptable, the causes of sexual harassment in the workplace are very different from those that lead to molestation of children. Many people who would tease a woman at work would never dream of molesting a child.

Well, I think there's a problem equating sexual harassment and teasing. Aside from that, I wasn't speaking in terms of the odd remark here or there that could be open to interpretation - I was speaking in terms of things that were unacceptable in ways that are not really debatable. And, as others have mentioned, the 1 in 3 statistic in a life time statistic. I don't think anyone is claiming that 1 in 3 girls have been molested by the time they turn 18.

ETA: While I agree that the causes of sexual harassment in the workplace are vastly different than the causes of child molestation, I don't think they are that different from the causes of rape an man or woman.


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

I was sexually assaulted/raped/molested by about a dozen men in my childhood and for many of them it was ongoing. So I have pretty strong feelings about the sexual assault of little girls. Those of you who say you would never leave your daughter with a boy or man at all because you were assaulted are throwing the baby out with the bathwater. By no measure am I afraid to say that a particular man might be a molester. If I see red flags I don't hesitate in the slightest. That *does not mean* that all boys and men are potential molesters. In fact some of the people who have been by far the safest for me to be around have been boys or men.

Yes, I've read _The Gift of Fear._ At this point in my life I absolutely trust my instincts. It's been a lot of years of work for me to get to the point where I feel pretty confident in my ability to make choices. (Oh, and to whoever said you avoid 'bad' neighborhoods because they are dangerous--what a very privileged thing to say. Uhm, what about the people who have to live there due to poverty?)

These sorts of conversations always go the same way. There are those who feel offended on the behalf of all men/boys and there are those who say the statistics back them on up suspecting all men/boys. Thing is, the statistics say that ~1/3 of all women will experience some sort of sexual abuse in their lifetime. The statistics *do not say* that 1/3 of all men are abusers. Given that the sort of men who abuse women are more likely to do it multiple times that means that it is probably noticeably less than 1/3 of all men who will ever abuse a woman/girl. And given that in that number even fewer are interested in children... No. I'm not going to bring my daughter up to fear all men. That isn't productive. I want her to learn how to genuinely interpret risk and danger.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rightkindofme* 
I was sexually assaulted/raped/molested by about a dozen men in my childhood and for many of them it was ongoing. So I have pretty strong feelings about the sexual assault of little girls. Those of you who say you would never leave your daughter with a boy or man at all because you were assaulted are throwing the baby out with the bathwater. By no measure am I afraid to say that a particular man might be a molester. If I see red flags I don't hesitate in the slightest. That *does not mean* that all boys and men are potential molesters. In fact some of the people who have been by far the safest for me to be around have been boys or men.

Yes, I've read _The Gift of Fear._ At this point in my life I absolutely trust my instincts. It's been a lot of years of work for me to get to the point where I feel pretty confident in my ability to make choices. (Oh, and to whoever said you avoid 'bad' neighborhoods because they are dangerous--what a very privileged thing to say. Uhm, what about the people who have to live there due to poverty?)

These sorts of conversations always go the same way. There are those who feel offended on the behalf of all men/boys and there are those who say the statistics back them on up suspecting all men/boys. Thing is, the statistics say that ~1/3 of all women will experience some sort of sexual abuse in their lifetime. The statistics *do not say* that 1/3 of all men are abusers. Given that the sort of men who abuse women are more likely to do it multiple times that means that it is probably noticeably less than 1/3 of all men who will ever abuse a woman/girl. And given that in that number even fewer are interested in children... No. I'm not going to bring my daughter up to fear all men. That isn't productive. I want her to learn how to genuinely interpret risk and danger.

Similar background and similar feelings. What concerns me most is that by saying "no boys can babysit my DD" people might be therefore believing "i am effectively protecting my child from abuse" when the reverse is true. Blanket policies ignore individuals, interactions and relationships, and therefore potentially allow for ignoring red flags (or even small yellow flags which might one day become red ones). The bogeyman isn't usually instantly recognisable, or necessarily a man. I am a survivor of abuse, i am VERY VERY careful who i trust, but i still evaluate what i SEE, and WAY beyond "nope, he has a penis" before i make a decision on how suitable someone is to be around/care for my kids.

ETA - i also have an aspie DH!


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Naturallove* 
. For boys sexual curiosity is really peaking between 12-16 and I would never put my children in a situation where that sort of temptation could occur.

And it's also the time of max embarrassment about getting caught. Just tell them, that you'll be gone 2-4 hours, but a neighbor might stop by some time in the first 2 hours, and they'll concentrate extra hard on playing with the kid so they don't accidentally think about something sexy and have to hold a book in front of themselves to answer the door.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

well i guess to each his own.

i dont care for statistics. a person is not a statistics. a woman can abuse as much as a man - for that matter even a 6 year old can be an abuser. that one in a million woman could be the very nice neighbour next door.

i trust my dd and my instincts. i am an older mom and most of my friends have teenage and adult kids.

we play with them all the time. i cannot imagine ever thinking i couldnt leave dd with them. if anything because of their relationship they are even more super vigilant than me.

i have my neighbours who watch out AND the boys parents on teh phone who could come over if help was needed or for advice.

i have had to let go of some friendships with other single women because they were too much in my face about my decision to allow dd to hang around teenage boys. They are shocked that i dont look at pedofiles lists. THEY are far more dangerous around my dd than the teenage boys themselves, always pointing out to dd to not show her underwear, or not get too close to some boys or not wrestle with them.

their way of protecting my dd was to never have her around teenage boys ever. and yet it IS teenage boys who even have the kind of energy needed to hang out with dd and share the same likes and dislikes - like anime. she has always gotten along better with boys than girls right from toddlerhood.

i have been molested and raped as a preschooler and a teenager. i know what its like to feel creepy around some people. i notice my dd has that judgement too. to me THAT is far more important to me than any statistics.


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## karanyavel (May 8, 2010)

One of the biggest problems with citing statistics as far as how common child molestation might be is defining "molestation".

I had three experiences as a child that might possibly be considered molestation, depending on who you ask.

1. Mentally disabled male, about 14-15 years old, pulled up my dress and looked at my panties on the school bus when I was 6. Just as he was asking to "see what was under them", I yanked my dress down and he didn't pursue it further. I didn't sit next to him on the bus again and told my mom as soon as I got home. She called his parents, I think.

2. Female in my own class, same age as me, kept pushing things further and further when trying to instigate sexual experimentation. Because, at the end of this, she pressured me into allowing her to touch my naked genitals, I guess I'd consider this molestation but she WAS the same age I was. I halted the friendship immediately afterward and never told my parents. We were both around 10 or 11 years old.

3. Mentally disabled male, about 16-17 years old, told me a sexual story (supposedly true) and grabbed my breasts at a public library. I was 12 or so. I yelled "STOP THAT!" and immediately told the librarian, who permanently banned him from the library. She called my mother to tell her what had happened and to praise me for how I'd handled it.

While none of these are things that I would ever want to happen to my child, I only really consider incident #2 "molestation" and the perp was a same-age, same-sex child. What separates that incident from the others is that genital touching was involved and that the girl had been actively pushing me in this direction (I think she was actually grooming me!) for several months. Also, that was the only incident that was traumatic at all (for me, I think my mom was pretty upset by the other two).

And as others have mentioned, even if 1/3 of children are molested, that doesn't mean 1/3 of men/boys are molesters. I'd guess the number is much, much lower than that.. maybe 1%.

No, I wouldn't have a problem with a 13 y/o boy babysitting my 5 y/o daughter.

--K


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SweetPotato* 
Would the gender difference alone affect your comfort level with the idea?

Yes, it would.


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

I wouldn't have a problem with it. So far my ds has had many babysitters - male, female, gay, straight, some I know VERY well, others I know through friends who use them as babysitters. Although no teens yet (I don't actually know any teenagers right now though), but it wouldn't bother me.

I babysat at 13, and the people originally wanted my older brother to babysit for them since he's, well, older. But, the age difference is only 6months, and he was grossed out by the thought of changing diapers (the baby was a 3mo baby girl), so clearly a baby girl wasn't going to do anything for him sexually. It worked out though, I fell in love with that baby girl, and babysat her for 3 years!

My brother did take a few babysitting jobs though, and he was the FUN babysitter! He let the kids stay up late, play rambunctious games (like tag and flag football).

I think the MOST important thing parents can do for their children is to believe them, and to teach them what innappropriate touching is, and what to do about it (calling parents isn't always an option, but telling parents when they come home and the babysitter is gone ALWAYS is - and kids should know that babysitters will not be hired back if they do things the kids are uncomfortable with).


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## APToddlerMama (Oct 5, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thyra* 
I think the MOST important thing parents can do for their children is to believe them, and to teach them what innappropriate touching is, and what to do about it (calling parents isn't always an option, but telling parents when they come home and the babysitter is gone ALWAYS is - and kids should know that babysitters will not be hired back if they do things the kids are uncomfortable with).

The reality is that this doesn't work in all situations and with all kids. It isn't a substitute for discretion in choosing child care. Sexual perpetrators are clever enough to figure out ways around this.


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *APToddlerMama* 
The reality is that this doesn't work in all situations and with all kids. It isn't a substitute for discretion in choosing child care. Sexual perpetrators are clever enough to figure out ways around this.

Yeah, no one is advocating leaving a 5 year old with the creepy guy from the playground in the black trench coat.


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## APToddlerMama (Oct 5, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rightkindofme* 
Yeah, no one is advocating leaving a 5 year old with the creepy guy from the playground in the black trench coat.

I sense the sarcasm, which is inappropriate in a discussion like this anyhow, but the comment also suggests only a creep in a trench coat would molest a kid which I'm pretty sure everyone knows is incredibly ridiculous.


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *APToddlerMama* 
The reality is that this doesn't work in all situations and with all kids. It isn't a substitute for discretion in choosing child care. Sexual perpetrators are clever enough to figure out ways around this.

I never said that people should be indiscriminate when choosing who to leave their children with. They should be careful. I also don't believe that people should be discriminated against based on age, gender, race, religion or otherwise.

I know that it will not always work, however if our children know that we will believe them, they are more likely to tell us what happens to them. If we have talked about it, and told them that we will not hire babysitters back that made them uncomfortable (even if its something more "mundane" than sexual assualt), then they will be more likely to communicate with us.

The answer to this, is NOT to make firm rules about the age, gender, race, religion, etc of a babysitter - b/c that in and of itself will NOT protect our children from abuse.

I do believe thats the MOST important thing we can do, but that does NOT mean that its the ONLY thing we should do to protect our children.


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thyra* 
I never said that people should be indiscriminate when choosing who to leave their children with. They should be careful. I also don't believe that people should be discriminated against based on age, gender, race, religion or otherwise.

I know that it will not always work, however if our children know that we will believe them, they are more likely to tell us what happens to them. If we have talked about it, and told them that we will not hire babysitters back that made them uncomfortable (even if its something more "mundane" than sexual assualt), then they will be more likely to communicate with us.

The answer to this, is NOT to make firm rules about the age, gender, race, religion, etc of a babysitter - b/c that in and of itself will NOT protect our children from abuse.

I do believe thats the MOST important thing we can do, but that does NOT mean that its the ONLY thing we should do to protect our children.









Only she's patient enough to type it all out.


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## ShadowMoon (Oct 18, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thyra* 
I never said that people should be indiscriminate when choosing who to leave their children with. They should be careful. I also don't believe that people should be discriminated against based on age, gender, race, religion or otherwise.

I know that it will not always work, however if our children know that we will believe them, they are more likely to tell us what happens to them. If we have talked about it, and told them that we will not hire babysitters back that made them uncomfortable (even if its something more "mundane" than sexual assualt), then they will be more likely to communicate with us.

The answer to this, is NOT to make firm rules about the age, gender, race, religion, etc of a babysitter - b/c that in and of itself will NOT protect our children from abuse.

I do believe thats the MOST important thing we can do, but that does NOT mean that its the ONLY thing we should do to protect our children.

And a second


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thyra* 
I never said that people should be indiscriminate when choosing who to leave their children with. They should be careful. I also don't believe that people should be discriminated against based on age, gender, race, religion or otherwise.

I know that it will not always work, however if our children know that we will believe them, they are more likely to tell us what happens to them. If we have talked about it, and told them that we will not hire babysitters back that made them uncomfortable (even if its something more "mundane" than sexual assualt), then they will be more likely to communicate with us.

The answer to this, is NOT to make firm rules about the age, gender, race, religion, etc of a babysitter - b/c that in and of itself will NOT protect our children from abuse.

I do believe thats the MOST important thing we can do, but that does NOT mean that its the ONLY thing we should do to protect our children.









...X3


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thyra* 
I never said that people should be indiscriminate when choosing who to leave their children with. They should be careful. I also don't believe that people should be discriminated against based on age, gender, race, religion or otherwise.

I know that it will not always work, however if our children know that we will believe them, they are more likely to tell us what happens to them. If we have talked about it, and told them that we will not hire babysitters back that made them uncomfortable (even if its something more "mundane" than sexual assualt), then they will be more likely to communicate with us.

The answer to this, is NOT to make firm rules about the age, gender, race, religion, etc of a babysitter - b/c that in and of itself will NOT protect our children from abuse.

I do believe thats the MOST important thing we can do, but that does NOT mean that its the ONLY thing we should do to protect our children.









X 4 (my favorite number)


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Purity♥Lake~* 
She didn't say "in the workplace". That was your own inference. Sexual harassment can occur anywhere, anytime to any age victim. Sexual harassment can include unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical harassment of a sexual nature.

I didn't mean to imply that ALL the other sexual molestation was harassment in the workplace.

My point is, that grouping all of these forms of abuse, from harassment in the workplace, to statutory rape by an adolescent man of an adolescent woman, to sexual abuse of a small child by a grown adult or adolescent, is not helpful in discussions like this.

It obscures the true statistics of how likely a pre-pubescent child is to be molested by an adult male. We know it's less than 1/3, but not how much less. Are 90% of molestations of teenage girls? 75%? 50% with 45% of adult women?

I don't know.

Give me a number that refers to molestation of pre-pubescent children by adults, and then we can talk.


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## Kidzaplenty (Jun 17, 2006)




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