# First Child - Stillborn



## wilkers8

I've never posted to a public message board before. So please bear with me.

My wonderful husband and I received the horrible news during my 27th week of pregnancy that our child would be a stillbirth. Up to this point, I had been the envy of everyone. Only one attempt to get pregnant was needed, I had no morning sickness, and overall my pregnancy was easy. However that all changed drastically. On St. Patty's Day, we had our beautiful Irish son, Connnor. He was 1 lb 13 oz and 14 in long. He was the most beautiful baby that I had ever seen.

So far, every test on me and Connor has come back negative. I'm apparently an extremely healthly 26yr old woman. The doctors are expecting the results (which are not due for a number of weeks) to likely not turn up a cause/explanation.

I'm having such a hard time with the fact that I'm now a mom with only a box of mementos and not a baby. I get upset at other people who tell me stories about their loss of their 2nd or later child. Not that I don't understand their grief but it's not the same as when it's your first child. I have such an overwhelming feeling of terror that I will never know what it's like to be a mom with a baby.

Both my husband and I are anxious to be pregnant again. Not to replace Connor (not possible) but to look forward to a time when we will be a family with more than a box.

I could really use hearing any stories about other moms/dads who lost their first child and their successful pregnancies afterwards (how long did they wait, was the stress/panic unbearable, etc).


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## SweetTeach

So sorry, so sorry, so sorry! I'm so sorry that you lost Connor.
I can relate to you, unfortunately. I lost my first pregnancy as well in December and I was also extremely healthy and had a textbook pg. At my 32 week appt my m/w said to me "You're so boring! I wish everyone could be like you." It's horrible and not having another child to hold does make it different from other kinds of losses. You just lost Connor last week? Goodness, I am so sorry, you must still be deep in shock.

Please come here and read some of the threads if you are up to it. I also started another thread called "Is there any interest?" that you might want to look at.
I wish you peace and comfort at this tragic time in your life. Please just know that you are not alone.


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## starfairy

(((HUGS))) I am so very sorry for your loss.

I think it is very normal to get upset . And you are right. It is not the same to lose your first child as a second or latter child - and anyone who thinks differently is kidding themselves. The hurt is still very strong for sure. But certainly not the same.

I am thinking of you & wishing you all the best.

Peace,
Anne-Marie


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## hmpc2

Wilkers~







I am so sorry for your loss. It is a shock to your system when you learn you won't be carrying a live baby home. I too only came home with a box. I was fortnuate and have some pretty cool mementos...but it's still not my daughter.

Like sweetTeach suggested...look over all the archives and explore others who have been where you are. Please know that you can PM me (private message) and I'll be happy to talk to you. It hasn't been a week yet, since you lost Conner, so please take care of yourself. You still gave birth, I would suggest you rest, relax, cry, do whatever you need.


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## Ms. Mom

wilkers8, I'd like to warmly and gently welcome you to Mothering









I'm so sorry losing Connor is what brought you here. Your love for him and motherhood is so apparent in your post. I'm sure Connor feels that deep love.

Please feel free to join in the discussions here and share whatever feels comfortable for you.

You're so fresh in your grief right now. Please make sure you're taking care of yourself. I know it's hard when you feel there's no baby left to nurish, but you'll heal better spiritually if you take care of yourself physically. Make sure you're drinking pleanty of water and eating a healthy diet. Try to get as much rest as possible.

You and Connor are in my thoughts.


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## Freckles

I'm so very very sorry for your loss







Unfortunately I can relate as I buried my first born too last year on April 14th. Our son was delivered by c-section at 31wks due to my heavy bleeding. He lived for one hour then passed. He was perfect too, almost 4lbs, and the mirror image of his father right down to his toes.

Like you I wanted to get pregnant right away and with IVF the 2nd time we did but I just lost the baby at 15wks
















I also have momentos from each pregnancy. On my son I have a whole album starting with preconception, to the IVF journey, to birth, to death and to his funeral. I haven't been able to open the book in about six months. On this last pregnancy, I started a "mother's journal" and wrote in it every day until the day I discovered our baby no longer had a heartbeat. Both books are in our son's nursery with our son's baby clothes. The door is shut to his room.

The pain goes on and on but you will feel better in time I promise. We have no reasons for why these things happen. Only God knows. I have to believe my angels are better in heaven then on Earth, why else would they be there and not with me?

Take comfort in your husband, your friends and your loved ones. Mourn however and whenever you have to. I truly feel your pain as many others do. Please email me if you want to talk more.

Big hugs to you and your husband!


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## sun-shine01

I am so verry sorry for your loss.

hugs to you and your hubby.


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## KatherineinCA

Wilkers8,

I'm so very, very sorry. As a mom whose fourth baby was stillborn, I want you to know that I definitely see the difference. I'm sorry you have been faced with people equating their loss to yours. As bad as my experience has been, I am always filled with extra compassion for the precious moms who have lost their first. There are several here, some who've already posted, and I know you'll receive good support from them. And please know that all of us moms of stillborn babies are here to support you as you move through the weeks and months ahead.

Much love to you,
Katherine


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## XM

Willikers, my heart goes out to you. We lost our firstborn daughter while I was pushing (she was born at 41 weeks). I was 25, we also chose an autopsy that showed her to be a normal healthy baby. It was harder on Mike that there was no abnormalities, it would have been harder on mer if there had been (because I would have blamed myself for not taking my prenatal every night, etc.) It was such a shock to lose Xiola, we'd done everything 'right'... Brewer diet, natural birth...

Everything you mention in your post resonates with me. I remember the despair of those first weeks all too well... if there was no reason for her to have died, how can we make sure it doesn't happen again? Could lightning strike twice? Did we even want to risk this pain again?

It was a huge leap of faith for us to concieve Ezra 5 months after his sister's birth/death. We had a wonderful pregnancy with a fantastic midwife who was compassionate towards me and my grieving my daughter as I rejoyced in my new pregnancy. Our son was born in the caul, at home, after 10 hours of labor. His pregnancy was one of the scariest, hardest, yet most fulfilling, things I have ever done. I wouldn't have thought after my loss that I would ever beleive in my body and in birth, but I did.

Big, big hugs to you, mama. I am so sorry that your arms are empty. Of course you want a baby to fill them... but no one will ever replace Connor. One of the lovely things about Ezra's pregnancy was that I was able to see how even in utero, my daughter had a personality all her own. In being able to contrast her pregnancy to her brother's, I almost feel like I know her better now. She was definitely her own person.


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## Mamid

Sometimes babies just die and there's no reason to it. I know that's a horrid thing to say, but its true and there's nothing you did or didn't do that could have stopped it.

Think of it this way, he spent his entire short life loved by mom and dad.

Take your time to grieve. Don't you dare let anyone get to you by saying that you should be over it by now. You are never over it.

13 years later and I still miss my little one. 19 weeks he was.


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## Katana

I'm so sorry that you lost your precious Connor.

I wish you peace and healing.


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## wilkers8

Thank you for the supportive responses.

It's one week today. In this week, we lost Connor yet two of my friends had 2 healthly baby boys. I'm happy for them but I couldn't bring myself to contact them with congrats. Now more than ever I should be happy when I hear of a successful pregnancy especially for a friend but I'm too sad to care about anyone else's happiness (this is completely opposite of my personality and so I stuggle with the new person I've become).

This morning, I must have stared at my husband for 30 minutes while he slept. He's been so incredible. Not that this would normally surprise me but he's lost his father (long battle with cancer) and son all in six weeks. So needless to say, 2004 has not been our favorite year.

As I talked to him about my fears last night...that the pain will never stop, that the pain will stop, that I'll forget what Connor looked like (even though we have pictures), and that I'll never be a mom with a living child...he confidently assured me of each fear not happening.

After I was done watching him sleep, I proceeded into the bathroom. My breasts are leaking (but luckily I'm not having that horrible engorgement feeling), my stomach is almost flat again, I've lost all the weight I gained except the last 7 pounds (I'm eating...the weight is just coming off very fast)...these are the very things I had hoped for after my pregnancy and now only bring me sadness.

All my focus seems to be on waiting for April 22nd, which is the day we receive the results for the remainder of tests on both Connor and me. We've decided that if the results are "unknown", then we are going to try immediately (given the doctor gives me the physical ok). We researched the statistics and there is a 97% ratio that we'll have a healthly baby the next time. I can't help but fear being the 3% of 3% who had mutliple unknown stillborns. I'm a technical person so never in my wildest dreams did I think that I would hate the odds of 97%. I want them to be higher. I know that when/if I hit the 32 week mark, I'll turn into a total basket case (partial basket case prior to that mark) waiting for 38 week mark (my doctor will induce me at that point). Two weeks ago, I would have laughed at the thought of dealing with only 6 weeks of major stress but now that seems like forever. Then again, two weeks ago...I was a completely different person.

As for what we'll do for the rest of the day...first, I'm hoping that we stop receiving flowers. Not that I don't appreciate the thought but there is a point of too much. We'll be handing out vases for Christmas for the next 10 years. Second, we're headed to the jewerly store to buy Connor's birthstone as a pendent for me to wear near my heart. I decided on this and told my husband and he was upset because he had been looking for the perfect one for me already, which makes me love him even more for thinking about what would bring me a little happiness. Third and most importantly, I'm going to grieve with my husband.

Again, thank you for all the kind responses. I was especially happy to hear about Ezra after Xiola.


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## rwikene

I'm so sorry for your loss, I can't even begin to imagine your pain right now. My heart is breaking for you
















I wish there was more I could say...you will be in my thoughts and prayers! Life is so unfair sometimes!


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## saturnine25

Wilkers, I'm so sorry to hear about your loss!







A warm welcome to you, although I'm sorry about the circumstances which brought you here. I think the birthstone pendant is a beautiful way to remember Connor, and I'm glad that you have such a wonderful, supportive husband. Sending healing thoughts your way.......


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## taradt

((hugs)) to you on your loss of Connor

you are in my thoughts at this difficult time

tara


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## wilkers8

I think this is becoming my journal of the experience of losing Connor. Normally, I would be uncomfortable to ever post this private information but instead I'm hoping that it will bring me peace. I apologize if this is a misuse but knowing each of you understand what I feel helps.

Today is the first day that my husband and I are attempting to return to the normal world. "Normal"...a word that seemed so easy to define just two weeks ago, now seems unattainable. Although, I will be off for the full six weeks (fully paid...very lucky), my husband returned for his first full day this morning. Two weeks ago, I enjoyed being at home alone and relaxing...knowing that my child was growing within me. Now, I stare at the walls/tv...knowing Connor is no longer with us. I've been trying to think of a project that I could start but I'm very analytical and not very domestic or creative, so most projects are out of the question. Plus, any idea that I come up with just seems so stupid in comparison to having Connor still with me. I thought about going back to work early but I know that the anticipation for the results and dealing with the day that my shower was planned for (at the end of April) will be difficult and I don't want to deal with the "pity eyes" yet.

"Pity eyes" that's what I'm calling the look of people who can't comprehend what we have gone through. They know they feel sorry for us and that we are sad but I know they don't really understand that we had and lost a child. That we had to deliver a child that we knew would never cry or smile. Although I am glad that my friends can't understand (it's not a club you want to be a member of) but it still makes me want to scream..."I'm a mom and lost my son!". I am lucky...my very close friends do understand that this was a very personal and difficult loss. My two best friends were able to hold Connor at the hospital and I'm never worried that I will have to remind them that we had a son. Another really close friend is in a difficult situation. Although not planned, she is due five days after Connor was due. We had been experiencing the entire pregnancy together and planning what we would do during our time off in the summer together. Our showers were even scheduled for the same weekend. I talk to her every day but I can't bring myself to want to see her. Thankfully she understands but I feel so guilty. She is a wonderful person and friend and I hate that I'm so sad/angry that I can't be happy for her. I'm sure that will eventually change but I pride myself in being a good friend and I'm definitely not being one to her now.

I've been thinking a ton of what Connor has taught me in just over 27 weeks. First, most issues people face seem so freaking trivial now. I can't imagine myself even worrying about half the stuff I was consumed with just two weeks ago. Second, I have a new world of compassion and understanding of what being a mom and having a stillborn means. Third, my husband is even more amazing then I ever knew or thought was possible. I knew that he was going to be a great father and he has lived up to that and gone far beyond. Fourth, I'm a stronger individual than I knew. Never in my life could I believe that I was capable of delivering a child that I knew was gone. Never in my life could I believe that I wouldn't die from the pain of losing a child.

So here's my question of the day: How do you learn to accept the new person you've become? I'm no longer the friend that can put other people's happiness before my own. I'm no longer innocent and naive regarding pregnancy. I'm no longer a woman who has had no significant loss in her life. I'm now a mom. I'm now a mom whose only child has passed away. I'm now a high-risk woman.


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## hmpc2

Wilkers~ I am crying as I read your last post. I remember that time of my grief so vividly. I don't really know how to answer your questions...

"So here's my question of the day: How do you learn to accept the new person you've become? I'm no longer the friend that can put other people's happiness before my own. I'm no longer innocent and naive regarding pregnancy. I'm no longer a woman who has had no significant loss in her life. I'm now a mom. I'm now a mom whose only child has passed away. I'm now a high-risk woman."

I am still struggling with who I am now. I have lost my husband to divorce also during this past year...so I have lost so much, but also have gained so much. I am just starting to like who I am becoming and look forward to the future when I have fully embraced my new self. So I guess it is time and a continuous journey. You may lose some friends, but I can tell you, you will gain new and sometimes better friends. You are right....you are a mom and never forget that. sometimes when we don't have our child to hold our momness feels like it fades away.

As far as high risk....I am not fully sure what you are refrencing. If you mean for your next pregnancy....really research all your options. Just because we lost a baby...does not automatically put us in the high-risk category. Like you said in your 1st post, you are a healthy 26 yr old...don't let the doctors take that away from you. You have time and a lot of processing to do, just take care of yourself these next 5 wks and do what you need to do on your personal journey of grief.


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## butternut

Wilkers--you can journal, write, rant, ponder, grieve ...anything here as long and as much as you want. No question of misuse. I am constantly amazed at the wonderful warm women here just waiting to hold us when we fall.
You sound like a wise, insightful mamma to me. Connor was a lucky baby to have you and I am so sorry you have lost him. Your dh and friends sound supportive. As you said, it can be impossible for anyone else to understand who has not gone through it.
I just want to share with you a bit of my story: I lost my first baby at just 12 weeks after getting pregnant the first month of trying and feeling great, all the right signs. It was an utter shock to me to lose my baby. I know for me as it was my first pregnancy, I felt so despondent just not knowing if I would ever had any living babies at all. We tried again at exactly 3 months after our loss and again got pregnant the first month--and now our son is six years old. I have had many more losses since then, but I know the first loss was different. I just want to share my story because it can go right the next time...and that is what I will keep in my prayers for you. I am thinking about you and your beautiful Connor (what a fantastic name for an Irish day baby).
Keep writing. We will listen.


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## wilkers8

Well, I think the stage of "anger" has set in. My temper fuse is so short and I've found myself taking pleasure in other people's pain. This is completely opposite of my previous personality so I'm feeling a tad guilty.

My husband and close friends are extremely supportive and are doing a wonderful job at what to say/do. However, friends that are not as close but we consider good friends are starting to come around now. Only they act as if nothing happened. I can tell they think it's better that no one even mention something happened or that I was ever pregnant. I asked my husband if this reaction bothers him...he said it's not what he prefers but he doesn't want to make others uncomfortable. I, on the other hand, feel like it's my duty to make sure everyone acknowledges Connor. I get upset when they don't ask how big he was or what he looked like, etc. I know it's not really fair. We're young and our friends have never experienced anything like this or known anyone who has. So how could I possibly expect them to ask these things when the concept of even being pregnant was new to them. But I can't help pointing out when they say something stupid or incorrect, even though I know I'm making them feel bad or uncomfortable despite their intentions being good. But the bottom line is, I realized that this was how I was feeling when I was so overjoyed when my best friend asked me if she could have a copy of one of Connor's pictures. That my son meant so much to not just my husband and I but her as well, is what I need to know.

Meanwhile, my body continues to respond quickly. My post delivery bleeding has almost stopped. My breasts are no longer leaking. My weight continues to drop. Yet I can't bring myself to attempt to put my jeans back on. I don't want to wear my maternity pants either. I always expected the day when my pants would fit again to be a wonderful day. I can't believe how drastically different I feel about the experience now. Having people tell me how envious they are of my body's return to non-pregnant stage is such a depressing statement now.

So here's my question of the day: When people prefer to avoid/ignore that Connor is our son and that he is no longer with us physically, do you ever think of them in the same light? Do you ever forgive them?


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## butternut

Ah, I think this is such a painful point! I really hope someone out there can give you some wise answers, because I have struggled with this with every loss. After my first, I sent out Christmas cards about two months later, each handmade and different. One friend who received a slightly humorous one commented, "Oh I was so relieved to see you had gotten your sense of humor back!" I felt like screaming at her--"I did not lose my sense of humor!! I lost my baby!!" I didn't, of course, but sometimes I wish I had. I am not one to hold a grudge but still now after 8 years I feel a sense of anger when I remember that incident.
I am also dealing with the say-nothing-and-it-was-nothing attitude a lot of people have--especially from co-workers. I complained to my mom and wondered if I am expecting too much to just have people acknowledge our loss, and she said maybe I am. She didn't mean to be mean, but her point was that most people have not experienced this and many people have not experienced any kind of loss at all--and they truly do not know what to say or how to act. They may truly believe that the best thing to do is to ignore it--they "don't want to upset you." I know, completely illogical as you are "upset" already...and more than they ever will know. I don't know--I don't think ignorance excuses them and I don't think we as the ones who have lost a baby must be the super-understanding ones here...but it may help to realize they really do not know how awful they are being. I find that letting go of the ones who don't matter to me so much personally has been best, while those whom I thought I had a closer relationship with, I try to point out to them the magnitude of my loss.
I don't know if any of this is helpful. Really I just wanted to say I understand the anger and I also find it completely frustrating.


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## Freckles

Wilkers, in response to your question of the day: When people prefer to avoid/ignore that Connor is our son and that he is no longer with us physically, do you ever think of them in the same light? Do you ever forgive them?

I can totally relate! When Christmas 2003 came (8 months after our first born went to heaven - he lived for one hour after his birth), no one mentioned our son or said anything in his memory but my husband and I were thinking of him the entire time someone opened a present or "oohhed and aahhed" over someone else's baby.

The one year anniversary of his death (April 14, 2004) is just around the corner but I know my family won't remember that date. They've gone on with their lives and we're still suffering and mourning. It's a constant struggle for us to keep smiling, to keep breathing, to keep living









But do I forgive them? Yes b/c we have to accept that our pain cannot possibly be their pain, that their lives are not the same as ours and that they do care but may not show it all the time.

It's very hard b/c I want them to mention our son by name or say something special about him (everyone held him after he passed and kissed him so they know how beautiful he was) but I can't remember the last time that happened. I want them to remember as we do but that's not the case either.

I believe we have to accept that part of life and move on the best we can. You will always have Connor in your heart wherever you go, even if others forget.

With love


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## SweetTeach

Freckles and butternut, I think you two hit the nail on the head. I feel like one of the hardest part of greiving is interacting with other people. It's exhausting to have to manage or at least respond to (or choose not to) everyone else's reactions to your loss.

I hate the fact that when _I[/] choose to not to talk about my son's death with people other than close friends or family, it means he doesn't get spoken about at all.

And then there's always the- awkwardly placed in the middle of a conversation- "Well, you're doing well" or "you're in good spirits today." The next time someone says something like that to me I'm gonna say- "Yeah I am. I make it a point to come out of my depressed funk at least once a day to make people like you feel better about my loss."









Hmph. I know you don't want to hear this wilkers, but you have a LONG road ahead of you. Remember, this is a cyclical process- anger today, despair tomorrow, fear, you name it. It's all gonna keep coming back around again. Keep talking it out and ((hugs))_


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## KatherineinCA

"Do you ever think of them in the same light?"

No.

"Do you ever forgive them?"

Gradually...

This is still a hard topic for me. I can feel the emotions stirring as I start to remember the hurtful things that were said and done. I learned who I could turn to, I learned that some people I had trusted and been close to really have no emotional depth or capacity. This has changed the way I interact with them, and I imagine that it will always be this way. You can't force emotional depth with someone! I also don't feel angry at people anymore. As time passes, I am able to see that they did their best in their own, limited way.

But, there are some who initially didn't respond well, but later redeemed themselves. I just kept talking about my baby, and as I kept the door open, quite a few friends then would start talking more and asking how I was doing, and they really made up for their initial silence. Yes, it totally stinks that the one who's hurting has to do the work. That's our messed-up, death-denying culture at work. There were days that I wished we still had the customs associated with mourning, including wearing black and being expected not to attend social functions. What a great protection for a grieving mom. Nowadays, we're supposed to be "back to normal" so quickly.

BTW, a resource on grief that I like is "The Grief Recovery Handbook" and they have a web site. They have a very thorough discussion of all the ways our society mishandles grief. It helped me to read it and see that I was not alone in feeling crazy because no one would talk about this horrendous thing that had just happened to me. And I still know who never acknowledged my baby's loss. It's weird. I just do.

There's so much more I could say on this topic.

Just know that you're not alone in your anger and frustration. It hurts so bad when people don't talk about your baby!

Love,
Katherine


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## wilkers8

As I read XM's beautiful post about her daughter's anniversary, I cried almost as hard as the day they told me Connor was gone. Realizing that this pain WILL continue to return at key moments in our lives, scares me. Seeing how each of you can so easily relate to things I say now, it's as if I see a glimpse of myself in two years. Based on her posts, I'm hoping the glimpse will be similiar (strong woman, strong relationship with husband, honored first child, a second child, etc)...that good things can happen next but knowing/accepting that the pain will be still so close.

Meanwhile in my current state, we went out yesterday to watch the NCAA tournament. I was nervous for the event since I knew that this would be a group of people that preferred to ignore everything. After a while, I kept having to stand up (sitting on a stool for a while was not the best idea). One of the guys at the table turned and asked me "Why do you keep standing up? Are you restless?". I had already warned everyone at the table that I could be set off at just about anything so I didn't hestiate but to respond with "Well, I spare you the fine details but things happen after you give birth!" I knew immediately that I had pretty much made him feel like complete crap but I refused to apologize. As much as I know 1.) he is a guy 2.) he's just one of my husband's drinking buddies 3.) he's had no experience with a loss of a child, I still can't help but to expect certain things. First, acknowledge that we had a son and have lost him. Second, don't ask me stupid questions (especially if you don't do the first one). Those seem like such small expectations but I've quickly learned how unrealistic they are. I'm very lucky to have my husband and close friends.

I'm nervous about talking about this next thing but too many strange things have happened and it's prompted the question of the day. Please note that I didn't really realize all of these things right away but recently it's all been so vivid. In addition, I don't really believe in these types of things but I can't help but get chills or notice them more now. The day that I returned home from the hospital, I realized that my watch battery had stopped. When did it stop, Monday late afternoon. I knew something was wrong Monday evening and confirmed it on Tuesday morning. Connor was delivered exactly three months earlier than his due date (6/17). Connor was delivered on my half birthday (9/17). My husband always joked with me that our children would be considered only Irish (I'm a great big mixture of backgrounds and he is 100% irish), so having Connor be born on St. Patrick's Day only seems fitting. And then last night, I had my first dream since my pregnancy stopped. Connor was born alive and only survived for the night. My husband and I were able to see him look at us. We were able to feel him move. We were able to see him breathe. I was able to feed him. I woke up in tears and then just went into the nursery and sat in the rocker for a while. But instead of being hysterical, I was strangely content.

So here's my new question of the day: Am I finding/creating these things so that I feel like Connor is still with me?


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## gossamer

Dear WIlkers,
I too lost my firstborn Mary Rose. I was 25 weeks pregnant and contracted Pre-Eclampsia and HELLP syndrome. My daughter survived for an hour, unfortunately I was still under anesthesia when she died, so I never got to see her or hold her while she was alive. I am so increadibly sorry for your loss. It has now been 8 months since I came home without a baby and it has been the hardest 8 months of my life.

The one thing I can tell you is that it does get better. You will never forget Connor (you wouldn't want to), but the pain will become bearable. I also believe that love crosses the placenta as much as blood and oxygen do and your son Connor knows how much you love him and how precious he is to you. The short time he had here in this world, you provided a warm, safe, and loving environment for him.

Be sure to give yourself time. Being a childless mother changes who we are. Don't be afraid to explore and embrace yourself right now. Grief is a journey, not an event.

I am so glad you have such a supportive husband. This time in your life will surprise you with who reaches out and who pulls away. You will discover friend syou never knew you had and you will also discover friends you thought you had aren't really. Please know that you and your family are in my thoughts and prayers. If you want to pm or e-mail me please feel free.
Gossamer


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## Smithie

Um, hi. I don't know if it's appropriate for me to partipate here or not. I'm 31 weeks pregnant and judging from the way my rib is being pulverized, my son is still among the living.

What I wanted to tell you is that a woman at full term whom I met when I was 3 months along, the SIL of my best friend, lost her baby on the day she was was scheduled to be induced. He strangled on the cord. They had a funeral, etc. and he has a name and the whole family was able to deal with it as a child's death and not and "accident" or some such hideous euphemism.

While dealing with the fallout from this tragedy, my friend was pretty much unable to talk to me about my baby or celebrate how healthy he seemed to be and how great I was feeling. Even though she wasn't the bereaved mom, "just" an aunt, she went to a very dark place and had to deal with all kinds of rage and fear and do the whole grieving thing.

And I didn't mind. I understood that where she was at emotionally and where I was at emotionally were just not compatible places, and that she would be back in my life and involved with the baby as soon as she could. I'm sure that your friends who recently delivered will welcome you into their babies' lives with open arms whenever you are ready for that.

I am so sorry for your loss.


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## KatherineinCA

Wilkers,

In answer to your new question, I don't think you're creating these things, I do believe Connor is still with you. My pregnancy with Kevin was very unusual for me in that he was talking to me and showing himself to me before I was pregnant, and then continued communicating with me throughout the pregnancy, and he has been near me since he died. He's given me a lot of information to help me better understand his purpose and why his path took the course it did. I have also seen and felt the spirit of my daughter from my ectopic pregnancy. I think our babies' spirits definitely stay close to us and try to communicate with us as much as we will allow them to.

Love,
Katherine


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## wilkers8

Two weeks today, I said goodbye to my son. I'm not sure what scares me more...that it's already been two weeks or at some point I will no longer be counting weeks.

Logically (even before the results come back), I know that I couldn't have prevented what happened. Emotionally, I can't help but feel like I didn't protect Connor. He was completely dependent upon me and I can't help but feel like I missed something. I've read enough books on the subject that I know this is a normal reaction but for the first time I am listening to my heart more than my head even if it's causing me pain.

I've found that I'm much more civil to stupid questions when the situation is not uncomfortable (meaning they are not ignoring Connor and what happened). For instance, the other day a good high school friend of mine and her husband came over to visit. I was somewhat dreading the visit (I do that for all first time visits since I don't know how they will respond). However, I was very happy with the visit. They asked me questions about Connor, about our feelings, about the situation. About an hour into the conversation her husband asked us "Were those difficult decisions (regarding the questions such as Will you name the baby, etc)?". Since the visit was comfortable at that point, my husband was able to joke and respond with "Well, it wasn't choosing bacon or sausage with my eggs". Although, it was such a stupid question, it didn't make me mad...I only laughed. However, for those that ignore things...the slighest comment completely sets me off and I enjoy making the person feel as uncomfortable as I possibly can (not a pleasant personality trait right now).

Being a mom with no living child means my life activities could return to pre-pregnancy. This is the biggest double edge sword that I've ever felt. On one hand, sure I would love to take a trip to Europe this summer but it's a remainder that we now don't have Connor and this summer we're free to do anything. Sure, I would love to go out drinking and socializing but it's a remainder that my body doesn't need to be alcohol free for the pregnancy or nursing. The list of things just goes on and on. I know that I have to move on with my life and sitting in my home not doing anything will only make me more depressed but why does everything have to be such a struggle with my emotions.

So I've pretty much been avoiding such things as alcohol, any pills that you couldn't take when pregnant, etc. Somehow it makes me feel that I have changed...that I am a mom now. I guess that's my problem. I know I'm a mom now but what does that mean. I know it means I love Connor and would have done anything for him to be here now. I know it means my heart will never be full since he's not here. What I don't know is the common mom things such as what it's like to feed your child, what it's like to watch your child sleep, what it's like to comfort your child when they cry, etc. It never bothered me when I had to respond to someone's request with "we can't do that this summer since we'll have a baby". Now, we have no ties and can do whatever we want. I don't think there is anything more depressing then that.

So here's my question of the day: How do I accept that my life doesn't need to change now (obvsiouly, emotionally my life is completely different but I mean physically) that my only child is gone?


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## simple gifts

I lost my son at 28 weeks. He lived for a few hours, I got to see and hold him. I later went on to have other children.

What I want to say to you is that was 23 years ago. In some ways, it seems like yesterday. The pain did get better, yes, but the pain is always lurking around. Do I say I have 5 children, or 6. Milestone years (He would be learning to drive this summer, he would be leaving for college) are still difficult.

You will forgive people who react badly. You will always react better from now on. You will feel badly for a long time, and the pain will come back at odd times, when you least expect it. You will feel guilty, even after you accept that it was out of your control. When you have other chldren, you will feel guilty about things to do with them as well, that's a mom thing, not a grief thing.

Your other children will talk about your son, and that will make you happy and sad.

And as to your question of the day, your life has changed. Yes, you could choose to do things that you could not do a few weeks ago. Then again, if you are considering another child, you can stay "pure" just so you feel safer the next time. You are a mother, and acting as if you are is not a bad thing. Just as pregnant and nursing moms will sometimes choose to have a drink, for instance, you can choose to not, for now.

Much sympathy to you and your husband.


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## wilkers8

So what's going through my mind now...obsession with reading and anger.

I ordered some of the books that were posted as resources. I'm reading them so fast (seems to be a book a day). Although, I think what they are bringing me is appreciation that others have it worse (poor relationship with husband, no supportive close friends, anger/distrust with medical professionals, etc). I mean the grief of losing a child is the same (across any loss) but there are huge differences of everything else (guilt, memories, regrets, etc). I am slowing starting to be able to see the good things in what happened to Connor. I'm happy for this...I want to be able to think about my pregancy with Connor and smile.

In this day and age, I'm amazed that people can't take two minutes and go out to the internet and research what to say/do for us (I applaud anyone reading this who is looking for insight for their loved ones). Instead, I'm finding that most people just ignore us (with some of them sending flowers/cards at least). I was telling my mom how much that avoidance was bothering me and her response was "They are uncomfortable". I wanted to scream..."So am I. I lost my child and the last thing I'm about to do is make sure every one else feels comfortable." At this stage, I'm just not willing to let others make me feel guilty. Whereas, my mother just doesn't want to be confrontational. For example, a co-worker of my mom's is pregnant. She is at the same stage as I was, so my mom would always look at her for the past 27 weeks and think...that's what my daughter looks like today. So obvisiously seeing this person right now is difficult for my mom. Another co-worker had the nerve to tell my mom that she is making this girl uncomfortable and needs to handle things better. My mom did not say anything back. However, I was so angry upon hearing this. I told my mom to do and not do whatever she wants right now. She just lost her first and only grandson. Why is this such a hard concept for people to grasp?

So that's it...the question of the day: Why do people expect us to work and ensure that no one else is uncomfortable? If they are concerned about us then why should I be worrying if they are ok.


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## Ms. Mom

Good question - I wish I had a solid answer.

You're grief sounds SO similar to what I felt when Amanda was stillborn. I couldn't get enough information on stillbirth and the loss of a child. I remember feeling 'stuck' in anger for a very long time too.

What I do think now is that anger isn't a true emotion. I think there are underlying emotions that we're either not able to or unsure of how to deal with. Anger is part of 'letting go' and that's a very hard thing to do.

In a world were every thing is moving at the speed of light, society feels that grief should too. I've heard countless times someone advising a grieving person to seek medications and/or therapy because a few months after a loss they're still feeling it.

The intensity of grief seems to last about a year. It's the year of first without that person. No, you shouldn't be locked in a dark room crying all the time, but if you find yourself there every now and again, that's OK!

The loss of a child brings on some very different grief. This is why this forum exists and isn't just bulked into the general grief and loss. Losing a parent or grandparent, we lose our past. When we lose our child, we lose our future and dreams.

I wouldn't compare the losses on which is worse or easier, that's unique to each individual, but losing a child at or before birth is a VERY unique loss. People around you didn't get to know the baby as you did. They didn't hold baby inside their body and nurture it. Their bodies did not change to meet the needs of the child.

Yes, a lot of stupid people and a lot of stupid comments out there. I wish we could find ways to educate people and let them know that grief is NORMAL and NECESSARY. People who allow themselves to properly grieve go on with their lives.

Sending you huge hugs. How are you feeling physically now?


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## KatherineinCA

Wilkers,

All I can say is that I still get angry. For the most part I do okay, but reading about your mom's co-worker, I felt this rage bubbling up inside me. How dare they? Hearing stories like that triggers all the pain inside me over how much my baby's death was minimized, and still is, in many ways.

I guess all I can offer at this point is the reassurance that you're not alone, you are a normal grieving mother, and there are a lot of idiots out there. And if one more person says to me, "Oh, they mean well..." I really don't believe that everyone means well. Some people just don't want to focus on someone else besides themselves. That was an important realization for me. About eight months after Kevin died I ran into someone I (thankfully) don't see too often. After my conversation with her, I realized that some people truly don't care that my baby died. It was a major breakthrough for me to finally get that. There are some people who aren't even trying to find the right thing to say, they truly don't get that anything needs to be said. It still gets to me, but I'm trying so hard to recognize the friends and family who have been truly empathetic and supportive.

Love and support,
Katherine


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## wilkers8

Physcially, I seem to be recovering quickly and easily. My breasts have stopped leaking and my bleeding has stopped as well. My weight loss has remained the same but I'm still losing inches and probably gaining muscle weight - starting to work out more each day. However, my chest always feels heavy. I know this is only in my mind but I seriously believe in feeling a heartbreak now.

For the most part, I attempt to stay busy throughout the day by cleaning, tasks for the house, financial budgeting, etc. This does seem to help me not focus on the loss of Connor 100% of the time. Unfortunately, every task seems so pointless now. Especially since the one thing I wanted the most is the one thing I have no control over. Ironic!

I've noticed that I can pretty much tie anything and everything to Connor. Especially right now as this evening would have been our first Parenting Class offered by the hospital. I had my first drink and it was such an emotional roller coaster. Who would have ever thought that having a drink would be so traumatic. I'm even finding myself hating the idea of Spring being here. I'm coming to terms that for the next couple of months everything will be a double edge sword.

My husband & my close friends have always been so supportive in my life and up to this point have always been able to make me happy or fix the problem. This time, there's no fix...there's no making me happy. I know that this hurts them as well as me and my husband but this is something that will now always be a part of me. Really...a hole in me.

I have been able to talk openly and honestly regarding when I can see my beautiful goddaughter (who was born this last Dec) and my friend who is expecting at the same time Connor was due. However, it doesn't stop the guilt I feel for not being a part of key moments in their life. They have both reassured me that they will support me on my time schedule but it's completely unfair to them. I know I need to do what's best for me now but is avoiding them really helping me?

So for the question of the day: Avoiding the people closest to me (my close pregnant friend or my goddaughter) during their key moments in life, won't this just make me have regrets later?


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## KatherineinCA

I actually regretted pushing myself to be out around people too soon. Looking back, I wish I had stayed home for about the first two months. Probably would have been impossible, but still, I think my grief was compounded by too many painful interactions. I bought a gift for my friend's baby boy who was born the week after Kevin, and I went to a friend's baby shower, I still can't believe I did that! Also, a friend in my homeschooling co-op was due two months after me and was planning a homebirth with the same midwives. It was so much better for me when I finally pulled out of that co-op. At about three months, I finally realized I wasn't coping very well, and started staying home more, protecting myself more, skipping baby showers and baby blessings, and that really seemed to help me. I think some things are just too painful and we need to protect ourselves for a time.

So, my answer to your question is that I still don't regret the events that I missed, I only regret the ones I pushed myself to go to that basically just re-traumatized me.

About a year after Kevin's stillbirth, several close friends had baby boys. I was close enough to them and doing so much better that I was able to celebrate the births of those babies and I have spent lots of time holding them. So, the need to protect yourself from other babies doesn't last forever, it's just the first little while.


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## wilkers8

It's been three weeks today. Three weeks since my life completely changed. Only my life didn't change in the way I had planned for it to change. I was looking forward to my life being completely different and now I dread how different my life is. Instead of being tired staying up late feeding Connor...I'm tired from staying up late missing Connor. Instead of having to decline invitations to events due to a newborn...I'm dreading receiving invites due to no newborn to prevent me from going. This list just is never-ending.

My anger is as strong as ever. Instead of being happy when I see a mom with a baby, my first thought is "She probably smoked crack and still has that baby". I know...horrible, but I can't help it. I'm so jealous that this person has something I had planned so perfectly. We had discussed when exactly to try. We managed to get pregnant exactly when we decided to try. We wanted Connor before he was even conceived and it makes me so angry that people who don't even know if they want their pregnancy...end up with a living child.

That's another thing..."living child" versus "healthly child". I get so angry reading some of these books where they indicate the probablity is in your favor that your next preganancy will result in a healthy child. Although, I haven't received all of Connor's tests...I'm pretty positive he was healthly. He's just not alive anymore. And even if he wasn't, I would give or do anything for Connor to be with us regardless. I find it offensive to believe that I would rather have him gone than have him here with an illness!

We will be attending our first support group for bereaved parents of infant loss tomorrow. I've never been to a support group before. I'm not sure whether we will find comfort there but we are willing to try anything. I'm a little anxious to attend and face the other people who are in our same situation.

I'm starting to get anxious for the 22nd to get here. I want to know the results of Connor's tests. Even if they do return as "unknown cause of death"...at least we'll know that a majority of things were ruled out (genetic, etc). Plus, I want to be checked in order to see if we can start trying again (that's if my period returns in the next week). I've been reading the book "Trying Again" and I have found this resource very useful. Although, I don't enjoy knowing that simple questions such as "Is this your first?" will be so emotional for me...it is preparing me for what it means to be me now. What events/questions/statements will trigger deep pain in me. They seemed like such innocent questions when I was pregnant with Connor. Funny how things change!

I was reading online yesterday where I saw the question "Do you remember your last happy moment?" This triggered so many emotions in me. Just the other day I looked at our wedding picture and thought "We had no clue what we were in store for. I'll never be as happy and naive as I was on that day". Do I realize that someday I will be happy again...yes. However, I also realize that I will never be completely happy and fullfilled since I will always have a part of me missing. I will always have the fear of remaining (or returning to) a mother with no living child.

So here's my question of the day (since the idea of having a happy moment again seems so hard to believe): Have you had any happy moments since the loss of your child? If so, what were they (if you don't mind sharing)?


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## XM

Willikers, I have been thinking of you every day. We are in the middle of a move right now and won't have internet till next week ( I am paying out the nose at Kinko's right now to check in) but once I have a chance I definitely want to discuss the questions you've brought up.

Its so hard to see pregnant mamas or new babies those forst several months. There was a teen mom that also went to my doctor, she was shooting up speed and didn't even know who the dad was... she had a (relatively) healthy, _live_ baby boy a few weeks after Xiola died. I had been counting my protein grams and eating my veggies... where was the justice in this? Oh, I was so angry... what's more, I felt like a failure that a 16yo speed freak could have a live baby and I didn't.

I definitely want to say that every thing you have mentioned resonates with me... I had so many of the same questions and concerns myself... I admire how you and all of the mamas here are being so honest and open in processing your grief... as much as the world may just want you to get on with life, the only way to truly heal is to experience your loss honestly. Eventually, because you are doing this hard, hard work, your grief will become something that is a facet of your self, instead of what defines yourself. I'm still doing the work myself... I think I always will be.

Big, big hugs, mamas. To all of you.


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## wilkers8

Just when I think how could I have more to write...the thoughts just never stop. I appreciate everyone's responses and I hope that my rambling brings others as well as myself some peace.

I'm still trying to adjust to people's reactions. A friend of mine just found out this past week about Connor. He called (which is a plus versus just sending a note and then proceed to avoid/ignore me) but one of his first statements was "My sister lost a child but went on to have two more". At first I was very happy, then I asked the question "was it a miscarriage or stillborn or SIDS"...he had no clue. I immediately felt so sorry for his sister. Her own brother didn't understand what happened and never tried to figure it out (his excuse...he was away at college). I proceeded to educate him and things went much smoother after that. An hour later he indicated that he would be sending his sister an apology. I heard from him this morning and he told me that his sister said to say thank you. My friend had no idea that his sister had been upset for the past five years.

Primarily, I'm dealing with feeling like I have a contagious disease and it's better off if people are not around me. For some people (prefer to avoid me people), they make me feel this way. For other people (pregnant friends), I'm terrified that somehow I will jinx them. I know that is stupid but I can't help it. Logic doesn't seem to prevail anymore...Logic would indicate that our son should be with us.

Last night, I went to start filling out the baby book we had purchased in Feb for Connor. This had to be the most depressing thing yet. I opened it to see all of these pages for first steps, first tooth, etc. I must have cried for hours. I couldn't bring myself to fill out one page in this book...knowing that it would always be primarily empty. So instead, I searched online for a baby book who has died and I found one at www.aplacetoremember.com. I placed the order immediately. I'm hoping that I will be able to fill out a book for Connor and not have it represent everything he/we missed out on.

We didn't end up attending the bereaved parents on infant loss support group last night. My husband didn't feel ready to share about Connor with strangers...yet. As of right now, we're planning on attending the next meeting but it's not until next month. I was ok with his feelings of not wanting to go yet as I was nervous about my reaction to other people's stories so soon after losing Connor.

I'm starting to exercise even more lately. Seems to be a way for me to release frusteration and actually benefit from it as well. I still can't bring myself to try on my old pants (although I swear my hips are wider!). However, my husband's actions are helping me to want to continue to have my body return to pre-pregnancy state. He makes me feel sexy despite my lack of wanting to do my hair, wear makeup, etc. One of the things I used to be worried about is that my husband (and/or I) would not see me in the same light after delivery of a child. Definitely not a problem for us...our problem is trying to wait for the doctor's ok.

Then again most of the things I worried about last month seem so stupid now. In addition to sexual attraction afterwards, I worried about delivery, I worried that my body wouldn't return, I worried about not knowing if I was in labor, etc. What stupid things to worry about. I mean there were two things that I was worried about that now seem to be even more likely to me now. I was worried that it would take us a long time to conceive. However, we managed to take only one attempt and Connor was conceived. Also, I was worried about miscarriage (I was well aware of how possible that scenerio was) so we didn't tell many people prior to hitting 12 weeks. However, I never worried about having a stillborn. It didn't even occur to me! I know it wouldn't have prevented what happened but I honestly believed that when I saw Connor during the ultrasound, everything would go just as planned. I couldn't have been any farther from the truth!

So here's my question of the day: Will I ever forgive myself for assuming everything would go as planned once I hit the second trimester? Could/Should I have done more to savor this pregnancy? I wish I had a picture of how my stomach was before we induced. I had taken the just "found out" picture but I have no end pregnancy picture. I already can't remember how big my stomach was.


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## wilkers8

It will be a four weeks tomorrow. The worst weeks of my life...more painful than I could have ever imagine death could be. I know people should normally be optimistic, however, I think someone should have really warned me that losing a child would be the worst thing that could ever happen. At least I know now, I (with the help of my husband and close friends) will be able to handle anything the future holds because nothing can be as painful as this.

How pathetic is this...I didn't even realize that this past weekend was Easter until Friday. Once I did realize it was Easter, it made no difference. Just didn't seem to mean anything. Six months ago, we were debating on whether we would be traveling to visit the in-laws during my third trimester. When my father-in-law passed away in Feb, we decided we wouldn't risk the travel. All the plans...all the worrying of what would/wouldn't happen...didn't matter. My mom spent the afternoon with me on Friday. She was nervous about telling me that she had to buy Connor something for Easter (so she bought a little rubber duck), but I was so happy to hear this. She thought I would find it stupid but I was reassured that she would always consider Connor her first grandchild. Meanwhile, my mother-in-law nervously shared with me (afraid I wouldn't want to hear this) that on Easter she heard my father-in-law's voice saying "bet, bet (his nickname for her)! He's ok. He's ok." She found so much comfort in knowing that he was with Connor that she wanted to share this with me. I do take comfort in knowing he's with his wonderful grandpa. Some have even tied the fact that this is why he died six weeks prior to Connor's death (even though it was a long battle to cancer this man was determined to make certain milestones. I will admit that I was surprised he didn't make it until June...I guess now I know why).

I think this is what has lead me to the biggest change in my life...I'm no longer afraid to die. Don't get me wrong, I'm not by any means suicidal. However, this is a strange comfort in knowing that death would mean being re-united with Connor. I'm definitely not rushing to that as it would mean giving up everything else and as much as I miss Connor, I wouldn't want to leave my husband and the dream of children to raise behind. So seeing Connor will have to be far in the future.

So I've taken everyone's advice on not pushing myself even though I hate the idea of not being a good friend. I decided to not attend my best friend's baptism this past weekend. This was the first event in her life that I've missed since we were 10 years old. She understands, which makes me feel less guilty, but I just hope I don't look back and regret missing it. I've also made the decision not to attend my friend's baby shower (the one that is due 5 days after Connor was due). I'm having much more guilt about this decision (even though she also understands). I just feel like I'm taking my anger/envy/pain out on her precious child. Eventually, I will be incrediably tied to her child (almost to the point of obsession) due to how close everything was to Connor and what we shared together (the first 27 weeks of pregnancy) but right now it's just to hard.

Aside from a few instances of anger this week including the insurance guy receiving my wrath. I had to call the disability insurance company with the date/type of my delivery. He proceeded to say "Congrats!". I responded with "Actually, I delivered a stillborn son. So congrats is really not in order." DEAD SILENCE. I gave him the date and type and hung up the phone. Later when a friend called for the first time and as I was explaining what happened, my friend said "you mean you had
to deliver it". Suddenly, I wanted to scream "his name was Connor...not it".

However, the screaming desires have not been as intense. I no longer walk down the street and see a pregnant woman or a mom with a newborn and think "You did crack and you still have that baby". I know...horrible. However, now when I see these people, I'm jealous beyond imagination. They have what I want. See I was always terrified about marriage or being a parent (bad family life with my father) but when I met my husband, my whole perspective changed. Marriage...a happy, healthly marriage was possible. Then I started to overcome my fear of being a mom...a good mom. So we decided to try for Connor. I thought it was a sign that I was meant to be a mom considering Connor was conceived in only one attempt. Now I'm a mom but I can't prove to anyone or myself that I'm a good one. The worst part...when my husband's father passed away (this wonderful man), I was angry and realized my worst fear is that my father would outlive my children. So far...my fears have all come true. I pray that my new worst fear...that I'll never have a living child, doesn't come true also.

So here's the question of the day: How do you get beyond feeling like a bad mother given that your child didn't survive?


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## butternut

wilkers-I wish I could anser your question...but I just want to tell you you are not a bad mother! I have also struggled with this with every loss (did I eat right? did I worry too much? did I expose myself to something horrbile? is it just my bad body????) But the whys we cannot get answers to, but do know it has NOTHING to do with you being a bad mother. You justy have to know that.

I actually reacted quite a bit to the part about your FIL dying and the feeling that he is with Connor. I wrote somewhere else here on a thread that my mother told me the same thing after my first loss. I lost my first baby at 12 weeks and months later she told me she found some comfort in knowing that my father (who died when I was 6) also had the joy of a grandbaby of his own--I was stunned but at the same time I have actually been able to find a bit of comfort in the thought, that I have a special person in my life who also loves my babies caring for them. I can believe this. Maybe not everyone can, but I do.

You are wise to skip what you feel you want to skip. Take care of yourself--your friends will still be there.


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## KatherineinCA

Wilkers,

A thought about being a "bad" friend for missing your friend's shower...I actually think it's the more compassionate choice for her. She deserves to enjoy her shower and be the center of attention and have everyone congratulating her and being happy for her. The one shower I went to (because I wanted to be a good friend and support her), I realized that my presence actually detracted from her special day. Many of our friends were concerned about me (this was less than two months after Kevin's stillbirth), and so they were talking to me, focusing on me, and holding back their joy for our pregnant friend so as not to hurt me further. And she had to contain her joy because she also didn't want to hurt me. So after that I realized that it can actually be the better choice to stay away and let the mom have her day. I hope that helps offer another perspective.

And, yes, you will be obsessed with her baby. I believe the day will come when her baby is healing for you to see and hold, but not yet. The two baby boys that were born within two weeks of Kevin, I NEVER see them without thinking, "That's what my baby would have been doing." It's been 17 months, and I still think of my baby every time I see them (which is pretty often because we go to the same church and live in the same area.)

As for the feelings of being a bad mom. Even though our situations are different, I still struggle with this one, too. I feel like the only idiot around who has had so many complications and traumas trying to have children. Even though I know in my head that it's not true, it's still an issue. One thought I've had lately is that I've experienced a dimension of motherhood that very few women ever experience. I actually had no idea how much a mother can really love her child until Kevin was stillborn. I offended one of my friends when I told her that (all her children are living) and she made some comment that showed she really didn't absorb what I was saying. But I think sometimes it takes loss to show us how deep our love really goes. So I try to make myself feel better sometimes by telling myself that I've discovered an aspect of motherhood that most women never know. I've been doing this a lot lately in preparation of Mother's Day.

You're doing tough work, mama. You're facing this head-on, and that takes so much courage.

With love and support,
Katherine


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## Mamid

When I lost my son at 19 weeks, no one around me seemed to understand the pain I was going throught.

Favorite movie rentals of theirs: Look who's talking. That was rented 5 times in one month because the 7yo loved it. AUGH. And if they didn't rent that, they rented "She's having a baby" and other movies of that genre - birth stories!

I couldn't watch PBS' "Miracle of Life" for two years without breaking into tears.

I couldn't go down the baby/feminine hygeine aisle for two years without breaking into tears.

I couldn't stand seeing other women pregnant at the same time I should have been.

What really got me was that I was so deeply traumatized that I was put into a psych ward for a few days. I left on my own. I couldn't stay there because the stupid "supervising" doctor on "my case" decided that the best "therapist" for me would be a 7 month pregnant woman! I left because I couldn't stand seeing her. I wasn't allowed to rest which is what I needed and more importantly, they didn't believe me when I said that I needed the rest. Leaving was the best thing I did. I spent the next week with a friend and got all the rest and sleep I wanted. The amount of blood I lost was such that I needed a transfusion but wasn't given one so it took me a year to rebuild my blood volume naturally without taking supplements.

Sure.. incarcerate into a psych ward a woman who just lost a baby and make her take therapy with a woman who is just as pregnant if not more so than she was.
















I look at the young teenagers and think - that could have been my baby....

13 years later and I am still not over it. The wound hurts less, but its still there.


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## hmpc2

Wilkers~ many







's to you. I wish I could come by your place and just sit and listen to you. I am so impressed by your posts and your sincerity. What a great way to process your grief.

I want to assure you that the thoughts of death are not abnormal....I too am no longer afraid to die...but am not suicidal. I have talked to numerous moms and dad's who have felt the same way.

As far as feeling like a bad mom...you are not and never will be a bad mom. I remember feeling like I failed Adia b/c I didn't know that she was in distress and if I wouldn't have pushed...(during the fun pushing stage)...she would still be alive...thoughts like that...and at some point, I realized I could be the most amazing mom in the world and I still would not have known....I can't tell you when I stopped feeling like a bad mom...but I can tell you I did and know that I am a good mom to Adia and will be even a better mom to my future children because of what I learned from having Adia.

Take care of yourself....


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## wilkers8

Oh, Mamid, I'm so sorry that you were treated so horribly. I swear that sometimes I'm completely amazed at the lack of common sense people have around individuals with an infant loss. I think the sooner I come to term with this fact and accept that a majority of people will hurt me (granted unintentionally...I hope) at some point, the less painful it will be. I guess your post (and others) have made my point. Losing Connor completely impacts my future...13 years later and you can relate to the pain as if it just happened. Losing Connor is not something that time will fix, time will only make the pain less but it will never be gone.

Thank you Katherine for your insight both on the shower and motherhood. You're absolutely right. My friend completely deserves a wonderful and happy day! She's an amazing woman, who will be an amazing mommy. On the other topic, I never thought about viewing this as an aspect of motherhood that most women never know. I definitely take some comfort in knowing that I will never take a child for granted...that I now know what worth worrying about and what's not...that a person can be a mom even with no child. These are lessons that can only be completely understood after a loss.

I think I know now why I was dreading Spring...every baby on the face of this earth seems to be out and about. I can't even go to a bar without seeing a baby. Although I'm now dealing with strangers better, which gives me hope that I'll be able to see my god-daughter soon. I have so many friends that either just had babies or are pregnant now. Aside from two of my closest friends, I'm so envious of them. Not to mention, my terror that somebody will have the lack of common sense and make some statement such as "why did I get pregnant, this child is such a pain" or "I'm so tired, the baby kept me up all night". BOO-freakin-HOO!

We received the baby book that we ordered. The contents are so much better than the traditional baby book and it does look nice. However, I wanted something a little more indestructable (hard cover, etc). So my husband and I will be creating our own baby book, which means we won't have it completed for a while. Even though we'll have to wait before it's completed, it will be even more special since we created it just for Connor.

I'm so glad the hospital had this packet of information to give us. In the packet was an application for a birth certificate for a stillborn. I didn't even realize that being able to get an actual certificate would be so important to me until recently. I know realize that not all states have this so I feel lucky as this certificate somehow makes me feel as if Connor is being officially acknowledged. So we sent this the form this week and requested multiple copies.

I think the phone calls are worse now. Phone calls from people that you don't talk to on a regular basis but once in awhile. I mean I do appreciate people's attempts when they call but it's just so annoying to me now. When the phone calls happened during the first couple of weeks, people expected me to be sad. However, now people act like I should be moving on by now. I get comments like "Feeling any better yet" (like it's a horrible thing for me to be still sad that I lost my son), "You'll soon be back to your old self" (like a part of me won't be missing in the future), etc. Why is it so hard for people to understand...losing a parent, you lose your past. LOSING A CHILD...you lose a part of your future. I realize that upcoming holidays will get easier but I will always feel like something is missing...that's Connor. Every event in our lives, we will be missing sharing it with Connor. Will I still be happy...yes. However, it won't be on the same level as I used to be happy. I've come to terms with that my happiness has a new high level, why is this so difficult for everyone else.

Due to these responses, I do have fears that when/if we get pregnant again...people are going to assume we're beyond this tragic loss and it's no big deal now. When in fact, it will be quite the opposite. Our next child's first cry will be a reminder that we never heard Connor cry, our next child's first steps will remind us that Connor never got to walk...the list just goes on. So we've decided to not tell anyone but our closest friends until we're about 20 weeks. This will allow us to get through half of a pregnancy with only supportive people around.

So here's the question of the day: Is there any way, aside from pointing it out bluntly, that their comment was uncalled for and stupid? I'm definitely never afraid of confrontation (and fact have always preached reasonable confrontation is good) so my reaction is always to call out anything. However, this is different in that I know their intentions are good.


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## KatherineinCA

I think there are definitely ways to respond that can be educational, helpful and also protect your space. You shouldn't have to swallow all these comments that invalidate your pain. One I thought of, in response to "Oh, at least you..." is "No, there is no "at least." Likewise, a response to: "Well, it's easier that..." is "No, there is no "easier" here." That one occurred to me after a neighbor (who lost her first baby at 17 weeks, about ten years ago) said, "Well, at least with a stillbirth, you didn't have to walk around for a week knowing your baby was dead." I was so shocked that she could say that, that I just sat there looking at her. But later I wanted to yell at her that actually, when I miscarried at ten weeks, I walked around for a week and a half knowing my baby was dead, so did that count?. And with Kevin, I still labored for another 24 hours after I found out he had died and then was rolled into the OR facing another c-section, knowing my baby was dead. It was just a bizarre comment. Especially because I wasn't minimizing her loss, so why did she feel compelled to minimize mine? So that's when I promised myself that if I ever heard those phrases again, I would cut them off and remind them that there just isn't any "easier" or "at least" for me. Seriously--as soon as you hear the "at least" you break in and respond, that way you don't even have to hear which aspect of your experience they think makes it "easier". (That said, I have told myself plenty of "at leasts" but that's up to me.)

Maybe for "you'll soon be back to your old self", a response along the lines of, "from what I've been hearing, this is actually a very long process...". This could work for "feeling any better yet?", too. "Well, actually, other moms who've lost their babies say this is a very long process." I really like referring to other moms who've been through what you're going through. It helps you feel like you're part of a group instead of a lone weirdo who is mal-adjusted because you're not "feeling any better yet". And it also gives legitimacy to what you're saying. Almost like, "Well, this is what my research says." I've used this one a lot, especially around the year-mark when I fell apart all over again. I found myself often saying, "Well, from the moms I've talked to, I think it's just a really long process" (you know, when people were puzzled that I was still struggling.)

And, yeah, you will hear comments from people who are not getting enough sleep because of their babies. The strangest was an acquaintance whose fourth child was born on Kevin's first birthday (and Kevin was my fourth). It was an awful parallel because this person had been quite insensitive and hurtful to me. After her baby was born she was telling me how hard having four kids was, and she was talking like she fully expected me to empathize with her. I just sat there and looked at her until she changed the subject. I wish I could have thought of something to say. Maybe, "You definitely deserve support and empathy, but I'm just not the right person to offer it to you."

Okay, so you can tell I've put a lot of thought into how to respond to people. I got so tired of constantly being blindsided by people's comments, that I've tried to be more prepared!

Mamid--

Thanks for sharing your story. It's heartbreaking that they could be so cruel.

My husband's family thought I should be medicated last year. Why do people think that intense grief over a much-loved baby is abnormal?


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## Mamid

that was only a tidbit of my story. I wrote something for a birth advocacy site before the owner of said site and I had a falling out about the birth/death of my son. If I find it, I'll post it here.


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## wilkers8

Well, I just got the phone call that I've been waiting for. Our results are in and with luck we have managed to get an appointment today for 3:30.

I had no idea how I was going to last another week before we got the test results. I've already called one of my best friends (the amazing ob-gyn) for each panic attack I had. The first one was that Connor has a genetic brain disorder that no one would tell me about. The second one was that I had built up antibodies for Rh disease (I'm RH negative and my husband is positive). I think this week is the first time that I've wanted the results to come back unknown. I've been spending so much time worrying that the results will be horrible, unfixable and with no hope. They really need to speed up the process of these results, 4-6 weeks is just too freakin long!

So now I anxiously wait 3 and 1/2 hours for them to tell me what happened or that they can't explain why Connor died. Please don't let it be something that will prevent the possibility of siblings for Connor.

No question of the day...just fears!


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## gossamer

Wilkers,
My thoughts and prayers will be with you today. Please let us know the outcome if you feel like sharing.
Gossamer


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## wilkers8

Well, those four hours of intense anxiety for the results was for nothing. Turns out the nurse had made a mistake and all of our results were not back yet. My doctor has indicated that he will contact me directly when everything is back and complete. It could still be another few weeks (not even the 22nd now). I'm so frusterated. I just wanted closure. Even if the results are not a 100% conclusive or unknown, closure would be nice. However until that report is given to me, my life is on hold. No ability to decide when to try, no ability to release guilt, no ability to accept Connor's loss...not without the results.

During my anxiety attacks, I had created a list of questions for what I wanted to ask during the results meeting. I wanted to make sure that I don't miss anything even though I know my doctor won't mind me calling back if necessary. As I was writing the list I started to cry realizing that going to the doctor will never be the same. No longer will I be sitting in the exam room without a care or concern that something will go wrong. That statistics/odds of something horrible happening means very little now. I had always considered myself as someone who beats the odds (became successful despite so many people telling me I couldn't be...I was pretty rebellious in as a teenager) but I would give up everything that I've beaten the odds on for one day with Connor. Just one day of beating the odds of having a stillborn.

However, before we can even start worrying about the odds, I have to have a period again. I thought I would be dreading the day my period returned but I'm starting to get a little anxious. Before I was pregnant, I was on a pretty consistent 25 day cycle. I was hoping to be the person whose period returns about 4 weeks after delivery. Doesn't seem to be happening although I was having low back pain which is usually my sign that in the next day or two I would start. Guess it was a false call. Sure hope it doesn't take another 4 weeks!

Since we already had registered for Connor's baby shower and the furniture for the nursery had already arrived, my husband and I decided that we would continue to finish the nursery (it really helped that we didn't find out Connor's gender during the pregnancy. The nursery was never Connor's room...it was a room for a baby. We've decided that is what it will remain...a room for a baby.). Two of my friends purchased a couple of things off the registry that either matched something we already got or was something we really wanted and was afraid it wouldn't be there later. She brought the stuff over this afternoon. I was nervous that putting the bedding on the crib would be such a gut-wrenching experience but it gave me hope instead. Hope that one day, my husband and I will bring home a sibling for Connor.

Speaking of a possible sibling for Connor...I've decided that the statistics should really take into account the emotional distress of a subsequent loss. Logically, I know that this is impossible but I can't help but be frusterated. I'm now an individual that knows that aside from something happening to my husband the only thing that will truly have devasting effects on me is the loss of another child. Anything else would probably make me sad or sympathetic but nothing will be completely life altering as this. So knowing that I have the same odds of having this happen again just doesn't seem fair. Then again, losing Connor doesn't seem fair either.

My husband got a tattoo on Tuesday in memory of Connor. It looks awesome but as he put it best "I like my tattoo but I would rather have my baby". I think we could add that "but" to just about every statement, comment, etc that we have. I think this is the jist of why I'm searching for some answer. We were a couple who waited to make sure we would have a successful, happy marriage. We were a couple who waited until we had financial stability. We were a couple that waited until we owned a home. We were a couple that were mature enough to be parents. We were a couple who waited until both of us were ready to take the next step. Now we're a couple with all of these things but no living child...only the memory of Connor. Where's the logic in that!

On to the question of the day: How do I (as an incrediably logical and technical person) accept that what happen has no logic, no reason, no explanation and no cause but has a HUGE effect?


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## Mamid

You can't. Or at least I still haven't.

This is the first year that I haven't downed my sorrows in a chocolate cake on that day. I'd buy a chocolate cake from the store (McCain's deep and deliscious was good enough) and I'd growl at anyone who came near it. It was half celebration, half because I just wanted to cry.

Just because my baby died doesn't mean I can't celebrate his life. He did live for a few months and even a few minutes after birth. He even kicked me....

He was just too young to survive. He never cried... How could he when he was barely 300gms?

This is real hard right now because I'm just past the day in this pregnancy when I lost him in that one. Just past. And this baby is barely kicking so I'm more than a little worried.

Yeah, you're going to be paranoid in any future pregnancies. Hypervigilant even. And either doctors will take it in stride or they will think you're a crackpot. Considering 90% of all doctors are men, they don't understand the connection a women gets with even an embryo. Its beyond them. They will never understand the hormonal changes, the dreams that start up... Oh sure, they have the concept, but none of the emotions.

Men who have had wives that have lost pregnancies or stillbirths understand better since slowly over the course of the pregnancy, they begin to connect with the unborn child. But doctors? Cold, distant, men-who-would-be-gods have any understanding of what we go through?

Take your time to mourn.

A way to give life to your baby is when your baby was supposed to have started school in a few years from now, go to the teacher he was supposed to go to and give her a bouquet of flowers and tell her its because she's one student short or however you want to explain it. Or sponsor a disadvantage child at christmas time and get it at least one toy you would have gotten your baby. Or plant a tree. Or get school supplies age appropriate for the grade your child was going to go to and give it to the school's principal and tell them to give it to a disadvantage child...

I scattered my son's aches just off of a marine park near where I live. I doubt I'll ever be back or remember the exact location, but I know he's there, in the sea... If you can, why not bury your baby in the stillbirth section of a local cemetary? There's one at the one DS's grandma is buried at. I found it when I was giving DP some time with his family saying good bye to her a few years ago. It was so messy that I straightened some of the toys and other momentos. Then again, I do that to all the graves when I visit her grave.

Now I'm crying...


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## wilkers8

I think all of my writing has helped. I no longer feel like emotions are coming at me from every possible angle or that any little thing will set me either into a fit of rage or a crying tailspin. I knew that working through this wouldn't mean the pain of losing Connor would disappear but I did think it would lower some. However, I think I'm finally getting it...although other aspects will improve, the pain of losing Connor will always be intense and close to my heart. Only things will not trigger that pain every second of the day.

My shower would be this upcoming Sunday. The invites had not gone out yet so we didn't have much to do to cancel the plans. I'm not sure how I will do but at least I will have friends with me that weekend. One friend is going to stay with me on Sat (the day of my other friend's shower) and my two best friends are coming to spend the day with us on Sunday. Not sure what we will do instead...I'll probably just be crying most of the weekend due to missing my friend's shower and still having an empty nursery.

I wish the report would just return already. I realize that the people in that field are incrediably busy and are doing things as fast as possible but having to wait this long for the final results of what happened to Connor is like some form of cruel punishment. As if losing Connor wasn't difficult enough but now prolonging the results just makes things even more difficult. I did manage to find out that it was not Rh disease and Connor had no internal malformations. That helps to remove some of the horrible thoughts that have been going through my head.

Truthfully, I need the final results to give me some closure. Closure on accepting Connor is gone. Closure on accepting we couldn't have prevented it. Closure on accepting the end of this pregnancy. This will allow us to move forward. I don't want to stop grieving for Connor and I couldn't even if I tried. However, I want and need to move forward with my life. Until I can move forward, my life feels like it's on hold. My period returned on the 17th and yet I can do nothing but wait for the results and the go-ahead from the doctor to ttc. Every aspect of my life feels stalled...my career, my relationship with my family and friends and my ability to want to have fun. I know that getting pregnant again will not replace Connor or eliminate the sadness I feel. However, every reason I had for wanting to ttc last fall still applies and is now only more elavated. So all of my energy will be going towards continuing to find comfort and love in my familiy and friends, continuing to get my physical body ready for another pregnancy, and most importantly continuing to grieve the loss of my son.

Here's the question of the day: How can I possibly feel like my life is not on hold?


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## Mamid

Pick one thing in your life... it doesn't have to be big, something small will do. Nurture it. Study it. Make it grow... When you're happy with what it has done, pick another small thing and repeat as necessary. This is a thread of your life. By holding on to it, you start to reweave and recreate your shattered life.

This could be a plant, a craft, a job, keeping a room in your house clean, cooking one dish over and over to perfection...

By picking one thing, you won't feel overwhelmed. You'll be able to concentrate on it and eventually, you won't be thinking of your baby every second of every day. First it'll be every other second, then every few seconds, and so on until you don't even realize that it has been a day since you last thought about your baby.

Doing this has gotten me through the "my life's on hold" part several times. When I was mourning the loss of my daughter to CPS here, I did that. I picked crochet mainly, but I also had the thread of the net to hold onto. Cross stitching, reading, writing, drawing, trying to make friends... All those threads I used one at a time. It took a while because I couldn't concentrate on them while I was fighting for my daughter, but they kept me from loosing my focus. One thing and one thing only was all I needed at times. And it didn't have to be anything big. A small flower that I was trying to grow helped... Actually having a garden... raising kittens...

Find a thread and hold onto it. You won't realize how much it helps until afterwards.


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## SweetTeach

Wilkers, I too have found writing to be very cathartic. My peer counselor kept telling me to write because she said that you feel like you're in the same place with your grief but if you go back in a few weeks or months and read what you've written, you'll see you've definitely moved.

Sunday will be tough but it's good that you will have friends supporting you.

Quote:

Closure on accepting we couldn't have prevented it.
Be careful, this is a slippery slope...no matter what the report does and doesn't tell you, there's nothing you could've done to prevent Connor's death. You did the best with what you knew. Whatever you find out will help you prepare for another pregnancy, but it shouldn't (in an ideal world, I guess) make you feel guilty about Connor's pregnancy.

Mamid- you give very good advice- my "thread" has been knitting...for hours on end. I have been able to find solace in this new craft and it's helped me immensely.


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## Mamid

Thanks. Its good advice because I've been there, done that, and knit the fricking t-shirt from hemp scraps if you know what I mean, Sweatteach.

I got told that there was a chrorionic infection that caused part of the miscarriage, but that the car accident I was in didn't cause any of it.

Excuse me, but I started to bleed right after the accident. How could it not cause the miscarriage even 2 months later????

There was no closure, because of some of the shit I went through when I miscarried.

There is acceptance of the events. To demand that I have "closure" is the same thing as to ask me if I was over it yet. I will never be over it. It will always be a part of me. He will always be my baby.

The scarriest memory I have about the entire incident wasn't when I was bleeding or anything like that... it was the stupid OB on call who screamed at me when he showed up, gloved up to his elbow, stuck his arm inside me, ripped out the placenta and left. That was the start of my hate for doctors. That and the ob on my case who refused to hospitalize me and then screamed at me over the phone while I lay in the hospital bed the day after I miscarried that I had to see her right away because she had to find out why I miscarried. Cause she didn't put me in the hospital on bed rest like I should have been!

The best memory was the nurses I had who had her arms around me at one time and just let me cry. There was one who wanted to "adopt" me and take me home to live with her kids. And another who asked if she could photocopy a picture I was finally able to draw so that they could add it to their hand out to women in similar situations.... Those women got me through the worst days of my life...

I'm having a hard time with my pregnancy right now. The baby barely kicks if at all. Bun was active on Saturday to the point where I was sure hir was doing acrobatics. But since then, barely any kicks at all. If I didn't have my Bebesounds monitor, I wouldn't be here at home right now. I'd be at the hospital begging for an ultrasound because my alarm bells are going off and have been for a day now. I am a week further now than I was when I miscarried. If I was spotting, there would be no doubt that I'd be in the hospital, probably in hysterics as well...

So, yes, it still affects me even today. Thankfully, I can hear Bun's heart beat and movement with the Bebesounds. That's the only thing that is keeping me calm. That's my thread.

That, and my daughter who I lost to the system sent me pictures of her via her adoptive mother over the weekend.


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## wilkers8

Well, as if losing my father-in-law in Feb and losing Connor in March wasn't enough grief to deal with...we took our dog in due to a cough. Turns out there is a tumor within his chest. We won't know if it's cancer for a day or two. My husband and I left just feeling completely kicked down. How much can a couple have to endure before they just break? Have I mentioned this year sucks so far?

I've also come to the decision that although I may alienate a few people with my direct approach, I will continue to educate people regarding the loss of an infant. This includes explaining what to say and what not to say, explaining how to remember and honor the infant, explaining what actually happened and what it means for the future, etc. I know that this will make some people uncomfortable but hopefully the next time they have to deal with an infant loss, they will be a little more educated and that mother will have more support.

I've been pretty clear with my family and close friends on how we will go forward regarding acknowledging Connor. When asked the number of children we have...Connor will always be included. When Christmas or his anniversary comes...a donation to a charity in his name will be done. For every baby shower or successful pregnancy I'm a part of...baby clothes will be donated to a hospital for stillborn children. Essentially to treat the memory of Connor exactly as what he is...my little boy.

On to the question of the day: How do you stop from feeling like every bad possibility is going to happen? Given our lives in the past 3 months, I can't help but feel I'm (or anyone that I care about) going to walk outside and be hit in the head by something. The more impossible this scenario is the more likely I feel like it's going to happen.


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## Mamid

I still get the "worst possible scenerio" stuff. I'm probably dealing with it wrong, but I voice it. And you know what, it never happens. I think voicing it stops it from happening.


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## wilkers8

Mamid...although obviously I'm not pregnant again, I can immediately comprehand the stress you are enduring with this pregnancy. On one hand, it scares me but on the other hand, despite the emotions...it's exactly what I long for...being pregnant again. I think that's one of the many reasons why I am anxious to ttc...I want that to be my thread. I'm not domestic and as my family and friends can attest to...I don't have a domestic bone in my body. I used to joke that motherhood would be my only domestic trait. I've attempted everything from sewing to knitting to scrapbooking in the past. I'm just the person who looks at those "lack of art commerical and how it impacts children and thinks...what's wrong with that child's response".

My doctor has recommended waiting two cycles before we try (first cycle started on April 17th) and one of my best friends (the ob-gyn) also is concerned with me trying right away and not waiting until after the next cycle. Both from the perspective of making sure my lining has time to be ready for another pregnancy (neither wants me to raise any odds of having a miscarriage). Logically, I should look at this and think...yes, I should wait to increase my odds of a successful pregnancy...yes, it's only a matter of waiting one month since I already have had my first cycle...yes, it would give me another month to continue to get my body back and ready for another pregnancy. But regardless of this logic, everything inside me says to start. I'm not sure if it's because logic doesn't seem to make sense anymore, the idea of continuing to be a childless mother hurts too much, to stop my life from feeling like it's on hold, or to give me something to hope for. It is probably all of them. I can't replace Connor and I never will. However, losing Connor doesn't change the desire in me to raise a child. I would give anything for the desire to be fullfilled by raising Connor but that's not possible. What is possible, raising a sibling for Connor. I guess it doesn't matter what my instinct/emotions are telling me for this cycle, unless we get the final report back in the next week...we'll miss this cycle anyway (we've agreed to wait at least until the final results are returned). I know that would mean only another four weeks but the word "only" seems so incrediably trivial to everyone else but me. Only put your life on hold for another four weeks (that's if we get lucky and conceive in one month).

The results for our dog came back this week. All preliminary signs are pointing to an infection versus cancer. We now have to give him medicene for two weeks and hope that the tumor reduces in size. If it doesn't then a further testing will be performed to verify whether infection or cancer. It's interesting to see how medical diagnosis procedures are so different than what I'm going through with waiting for Connor's results.

I was starting to have panic attacks about returning to work. I'm a computer software consultant and I hated the idea of having to travel or be put in extremely high stress situations. My boss is a very good friend and has been very supportive but I didn't want to put him in a difficult situation by allowing me to reduce my work stress. Luckily, my doctor has advised me to reduce stress at work and limit my travel in order to continue my recovery upon returning to work. This allows my boss to meet my needs without playing favorites and I don't have any concerns that I will be fired because of my current lack of career motivation. This has definitely helped with my concerns of returning to work.

On to the question of the day: Should I feel guilty that I will be taking advantage of my company during this time with the knowledge that we want to ttc very soon which would be I would then be extending the situation for another 9 months on top of this time?


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## Mamid

Guilty for taking time off and mourning the death of a family member? BAH! you get time off to mourn your mother, father, grandparents, etc when they die, so why not a much wanted child?

Don't feel guilty. Don't ever feel guilty.

BTW.. you will find your own thread. I'm a "domestic" type as you called it, so I have those things to fall back on. But that doesn't mean I always fall back on the same things. AND I've started to knit baby caps for this baby. I just hope they don't go walking off like other's I've made....


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## Mamid

I don't know if I should post this here, but this is something I've been wanting to do to help other mothers with miscarriages that are so close to being stillbirths, ya know?

Baby burial pouches
http://www.bevscountrycottage.com/beth-tinybunting.html
http://www.bevscountrycottage.com/fetal-pouch.html
http://www.warmheartswarmbabies.org/.../bbunting.html
http://www.bundlesoflove.org/rcroshelbun.htm
http://www.touchinglittlelives.org/fetaldem.html
http://afghans4angelsmd.homestead.com/Pouch.html

Then there's also all the preemie burial gowns and bunting patterns as well as clothing for them to wear if you look. Even a "cuddler" for those who are in the nicu.

I know you aren't domestic, but I really wish my baby could have gotten something like this instead of being put in a jar of formaldehyde.



















































What were they going to do with him? Slice, dice and julien???? I'm so glad I refused the autopsy. He deserved to be treated in dignity. At least that hospital social worker who helped me out just before I left the hospital treated my baby with the dignity he deserved. I still have the blankets and baby cap they gave me somewhere in my stuff. Formaldehyde? all because he wasn't a frigging stillbirth? He deserved better than that.

Damn.. going to go cry now... stupid hormones.


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## wilkers8

As my fertile period for this month arrives, I've been consumed with feelings of wanting to get pregnant. However, as we have not received the final results and my doctor recommends waiting until my next cycle, we will not be ttc. Even knowing logically this is for the best, every part of me is telling me to try this month. So obviously, I'm upset. I spent some of yesterday evening reading the thread that SweetTeach pointed me to at http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=113206. Although I was only at the start of the third trimester, reading everyone's responses was so assuring and helpful. It's amazing how these responses are so timeless. That no matter when they were written, they immediately applied to my situation. The appreciation I had for this thread makes me believe that my experience with Connor may give someone else comfort as they are trying to get a grasp on the pain of losing a child. This is just one more good thing Connor has done for my life and others.

Friday was my friend's baby shower. Although I participated by purchasing the cake, I did not attend. I knew it was for the best but that I would feel guilty and sad about it. Only I didn't know how sad and guilty. The idea in my head of what this weekend was going to be like...both of us laughing and feeling our children kicking. Everyone remarking on how amazing it was that we were only five days apart on our due dates. Watching her open her gifts and wondering what I would be receiving just the next day. Only none of this happened. Instead I don't even know what she wore to her shower. I will never share in her memories of this day. I only can take comfort in that this day was a happy day for my dear friend.

Yesterday should have been the day of my shower. I looked at my house that evening and partially still expected more baby gifts laying around then we knew what to do with. Instead, I opened the nursery door to find a primarily bare nursery. Honestly, I think my friend's shower day was harder than yesterday. I think this is because her's happened and I missed it versus mine will hopefully occur someday in the future for Connor's sibling. I find it incrediably ironic that just a few months ago I was saying "once we get to the shower, things will be so hectic and the time is just going to fly by and June will be here quickly". Now this weekend meant nothing to my life but to bring me sadness for what will never be.

The question of the day: Does it make me a bad person to be glad that my shower had not occurred for Connor? I know that showers are only meant for the first child and that I will feel all sorts of emotions for a future shower...but I can't help for be a little happy that it's not one more thing I missed out on.


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## jkklmn

I have just spent the last 1.5 hours reading every post from the first post about Conner. I have cried, laughed, gotten angry, every emotion with all of you. I lost my firstborn son in 1997. He was full-term, labor going well, then the cord prolapsed. He lived for a little over 24 hours, although he was hooked up to machines. Our family was able to join us at the hospital to say their hellos & goodbyes. Our family is extremely supportive and I don't think we would have made it through it without them. We cremated Griffin & had a 'visitation' type ceremony. We keep his ashes in an urn next to our bed. We went on to have our daughter 3 years later. We waited much longer than we would have due to job changes, moves across country, etc. Our daughter knows all about her big brother & talks about him a lot. We are very open with her about life & death, partly because of our nature & partly because of our past. We are now 20 weeks pregnant with our 3rd and I worry everyday & will continue to do so, because as you said, we are no longer naive about birth.

As far as unsolicited comments/advice...it is amazing how many ways there are to say the completely wrong thing. My 'best friend' (who never once remembered his birthday, but did remember our anniversary of us moving into our home) commented after my daughter was born, that she is so glad that I had a girl too. She wouldn't know what we would do if we had had sons. HELLO, I HAVE A SON!!!!!!!!!! I keep telling myself that these people care about me, but just don't understand. For that I am glad, I don't wish this on anyone. Like someone said...it isn't a club you want to belong to. During the visitation while my uncle was supposed to be saying a prayer which turned into a sermon, he kept calling Griffin, Griffith or Michael (his middle name). I wanted to stand up and scream HIS NAME IS GRIFFIN YOU IDIOT!! I'm sure he was nervous, but all I asked for was a short, simple prayer before everyone left (we are not religious, so the sermon was very inappropriate).

On the note about date coincidences...my brother was killed in a car accident in 1979, 18 days after his 18th birthday at 5:18pm. Griffin was born/died in 1997, which is 18 years later. There was 18 minutes between the cord prolapse & his delivery. My water broke on the 18th of February. We had to have the ceremony for Griffin on the day that my brother died, due to time constraints. It was very strange to notice all this after the fact. My mom & I are very drawn to numbers, thusly why all this came up. My mom & I like to think that Bob came back to say hi, we only wish he had had more time.

I know this is probably going to be the hardest thing you ever go through, I know it was/is for me. Things do get better, but there will always be that missing piece of you. Things will trigger you when you least expect it. We celebrate his life at Christmas time by choosing a boy who is the same age as Griffin would have been off of the Angel Tree at the local mall & spoiling him. It isn't much, but we feel a little better during the holidays.

I want to thank you for your conversations about Conner. You are honoring him by telling all these fine women your story. I relived my grief & it felt good. My daughter was very sad to see me cry, but when I explained why, she said she was so sorry that Conner died. Even after a 1/2 hour, she stopped what she was doing to tell me again how sorry she was. I had to read part of one of your letters to my husband & he just said, "wow, I remember every part of that so vividly." You brought us both back in time and even though it was a sad time, it still is worth remembering those feelings. I hope you find some peace with your loss and that the test results give you the answers you seek. I wish I could sit next to you and hold your hand, give you a hug & tell you how I understand. Just know you are getting warm hugs from Arizona. You are not alone.

-------------------------------------------------------
To all the other women who have posted their stories, my heart goes out to each and everyone of you. Thank you for sharing.

~Jenifer


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## gonnabeamom

Wilkers,

No you are not a bad person, not to want to have missed a happy occasion, not to want to have one more thing to deal with on top of the pile of crap you have been dealt.

I am so sorry Connor is not with you. I am so sorry for all you have had to go through and endure. I m/c recently and couldn't read your thread when I first saw it, things were just to raw for me. So I just read it in one sitting, and I had some things I wanted to respond to.

I had a bad period in my life in college that involved a lot of grief and anger. I was so furious with my friends who didn't understand, and most of them didn't, I was furious with people for avoiding me, and furious with people who talked to me but ignored what was going on, furious with stupid questions, etc. I felt exhausted by the need to tell people how to take care of me, when I needed taking care of. That was all 15 years ago. I let some of those people go completely. Others faded out of my life, and a few are left. I'm no longer angry with them over their ignorance and their foolishness, but I am carefull about who I share my pain with now. I'm relieving a small part of this because of the recent m/c and two friends with whom I'm really close who don't quite know what to do, and so don't do much. Because I've been through it before-and because the pain is not so all consuming this time-I'm able to focus more on what the people who are being kind to me have done for me. You will in time accept the person you become out of all of this, even if that person is more guarded than who you want to be. You will have more compassion for others pain, and in time I believe you will have more joy for others joy because you know that it can't be taken for granted.

Also I find that I do take some solace in things I can do because I'm not pregnant, even though that very fact is painful. For me it is a determination to find something good for myself in a sh*tty situation. It's part defiance, "Well if I can't be pregnant, at least I"m gonna have a g*damn mocha" and part self care. It is not as if by not doing those things you will not think of Connor. Connor will always be in your heart, and you don't need to worry that he will be forgotten.

Last you asked in your first post for stories of families who had losses and went on to have sucessful pregnancies. Dear friends of mine lost their baby at 8 months, to cord strangulation. It was very hard for them, and the Mom expressed many of the things you have hear, that she would always think of her son, that she would remember his absence whenever she saw a child that would be his age, that his memory and loss would be with her always. A little over a year later when they were both ready they conceived a beautiful little girl, who is now a healthy six year old firecracker.

Also a mutual friend set introduced me to a Mom in her playgroup who lost her first pregnancy at 36 weeks, and was chasing after her 3 year old daughter, while 8 months pregnant.

I know that your other children will be lucky, as Conner was, to have parents who love them fiercely.


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## wilkers8

Jenifer: thank you so much for your response. I'm so sorry you lost Griffin. I'll admit that everytime I hear of someone who lost their first born and have had a successful pregnancy afterwards, gives me so much hope. Although, I don't think I could mentally make it for three years without a sibling for Connor. You actually touched on something that really made me so thankful to hear. That your daughter knows and talks about him. This has become a new concern for me as I start to focus on conceiving a sibling for Connor. I want that child to know all about Connor but I was scared that it would never be real or really understood. I realize it wouldn't be for the first years but it warms my heart to hear how much Griffin is part of your family including his siblings. Thank you for taking the time to read about my journey. Hearing how Connor's story affected you brings me peace...knowing just one more good thing Connor has brought to this world.

Gonnabeamom: I'm so sorry for your loss. It's amazing how easily I can understand how raw things can be. Thank you for the stories of people with siblings for their lost ones. I definitely don't feel as alone when I hear about others who lost their first born. As far as people are concerned, I completely see myself letting go of some of the relationships that I had developed. I just am realizing how much they lacked depth and I don't have the time nor desire to devote to them. I'm very thankful that the people I considered closest to me...have turned out to be that and more. On a positive side, I have learned there was a little more depth in a couple of friendships that I had thought had pretty much gone our seperate ways.

Six weeks today we found out Connor was gone (delivered the next day)...42 days of life without Connor. These days seem like they have flown by that I would already be working but also have felt like they stood still waiting for the final results. It's strange how time can be so relative. At this time I thought I would be worrying about stretch marks, instead, I'm worrying that I'll never have a child to raise. It's amazing how just two words in an ultrasound room..."I'm sorry", can completely change your perspective.

A friend of mine spent five plus years trying to get pregnant. During that time, she had multiple miscarriages and divorced her husband. She continued her IVF treatments with a donor and on the last attempt, she successful announced at 15 weeks that she was pregnant with her son. I remember watching her during her pregnancy and seeing a woman who completely enjoyed her pregnancy regardless of sickness, stretch marks, etc. Up to that point, the only people I had known pregnant had been accidents and disliked pregnancy (was only 21 at the time). I can recall thinking...this is what pregnancy should be about. She now has been remarried and they successfully had a little girl about 2 years ago. Even though I knew how lucky I was to get pregnant so quickly, I think I did start taking this pregnancy for granted. I'm ashamed of myself...I knew what she had endured and I still complained about the serious heartburn I was experiencing. However, if there is a next time, I won't take a minute for granted. I guess no matter how close you are to something...you still don't think it will ever happen to you.

My husband asked me a question yesterday evening "do I love him less?". Immediately asked him if we was serious. He indicated that he was because although most of the time he agrees this has brought us even closer together, that occasionally, he feels that I am closing him out from my pain. He was right...there have been just a couple of days that I didn't feel like communication would do anything. Not because he wouldn't communicate or care but because it couldn't be fixed. Such as being depressed because my life feels like on hold or that four weeks of waiting is no big deal to everyone else but me. I'm so glad he asked me this question because I realized that even when it can't be fixed, he still wants to know how I'm feeling and the thought of us not communicating even for a night is too much for him...and me. The answer to his question was very simple...I love him even more each day and it was increased so much six weeks ago today. When I told him "I can't deliver this baby" after finding out that Connor was gone, his response "you can't...but we can". He was right. I could never do deal with this by myself but I can with him. I'm thankful every day that I married this man.

Leading to the question of the day: How do I make sure that I don't take how supportive & wonderful my husband has been for granted?


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## jkklmn

I know how you feel about the communication with your husband. Mike & I went through the same thing. The first month or so it was constant communication, crying together, talking about how we felt today, etc. Then we stopped for awhile. There were some days that I really needed to talk, but didn't want to 'bring him down' and then there were days when I didn't want to talk to anyone at all. After awhile we came back together. I think grieving pregnancy loss is different for the man & woman. It starts out the same, but then for the woman, I think, it changes. We had a different relationship with the baby. We shared every one of their moments with them while they were growing. Then we have the blame factor, since we were the ones carrying the child. It's just not an easy thing. Everyday it is something new. Us mamas like to think we have to control every detail and when something goes wrong, it must have been our mistake. How did we get this way??
















As far as taking your pregnancy for granted...I felt like I was cherishing every moment with Griffin's pregnancy, but then afterwards I felt like you. If I had only known that the last kick was the last time I would feel him move, etc, etc. Your next pregnancy will be a cautious time, but you won't be naive anymore & will think of the whole thing differently.


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## wilkers8

I went back to a client site for work for the first time this week. Naturally with my luck, this guy's wife brought in their newborn son at lunch. What are the chances of that! So I took a very long bathroom break. Other than that, it wasn't that bad. I got out of the house and had conversations with people. However, most of the time in the back of my mind I kept thinking "These people have no idea I just lost my son and how incrediably sad I am." I just kept putting a smile on my face and played the role of a good little consultant. That smile always felt fake but never as fake as it did that day.

I've developed a new complex. I was never rail thin but was never overweight. I had no problems gaining weight during the pregnancy but did make a point to be within the normal weight gain range. Most of the weight came off very quickly but even with only the last 7-8 pounds remaining my body looks horrible. I didn't keep up on exercising while pregnant so I have zero tone on top of the flab in my middle section (lower stomach, love handles, thighs and butt). I can't stand the way I look. I think I would have been ok with saying "I just had a baby" but now I don't feel like I'm justified in saying that. I know...ridiculous but it's how I feel. Unfortunately, I can't seem to get my body back. I know it's only been six weeks and this is not abnormal. Luckily, my husband doesn't seem to mind my body whatsoever. The funny thing is, I actually believe he is being honest. However, I don't like my body at all. I'm exercising each morning but not obsessively. I want to be able to continue the exercises once I know I'm pregnant so I can be in a routine.

Still no final results...this is absolutely driving me nuts. Maybe I should call the doctor's office each day so they are as annoyed as I am. I know they can't really help it as they are waiting on all of the information to come back but this is getting ridiculous. Knowing this is still out there and we're just waiting for a call is too much. However, I pretty much spend my entire life now waiting. waiting for the final results...waiting for my next ovulation cycle...waiting for my body to resemble my old body...waiting for next Monday for updated xrays on my dog...waiting for Connor's certificate in the mail...waiting...waiting...waiting. I'm sick of waiting!

As far as the question of the day: Why don't people understand that waiting for a result is worse then dealing with the result?


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## SweetTeach

The "no tone on a flabby lower tummy issue". Yes, I have that one too. I cannot fit into my pre pg clothes at all because my pelvic bones spread about 5 days before I gave birth. So even if I lost all the weight, I am a different shape than before. I was pissed/depressed about it for a while and then I realized and kept/keep reminding myself of 2 things- 1. DH loves it (he calls it my "jelly" a la Beyonce (hee hee) and 2. My body is so precious because it nourished and took care of my son for 9 months. I don't want to be mad at it. So I am trying to make peace with where I am and accept that I won't look like how I did before and that's ok. I'm a mom now!
Glad to hear going back to work wasn't too bad. The newborn- could the timing have been any better *insert sarcasm*.

Take care...


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## HaveWool~Will Felt

I simply want to thank all the women that have invested time, tears and raw emotions into these posts!!! Thank goodness for people who know compassion and love.

Today has been 34 days since my daughter died at 37 weeks. As some of you know, she was born alive and died 6 hours later.

I so can relate to the body changes, the unthoughful comments, the friends that just stop calling or inviting you to functions...you name it. Mostly I want to say that it wasn't until I was reading all the post that I realized that I haven't acknowledged my first pregnancy, in 1996. As soon as the thought came into my mind I wanted to minimize it. I miscarried at 20 weeks ( I really dislike how some woman are considered a miscarriage and some a stillbirth...IT IS STILL A BABY...regardless) I concieved that baby on Clomid. So I guess what I am saying is that my first child did die. Call me stupid...however it is all coming to me now.

GRIEF really sucks and there is no way around it. I have always been the pillar of strength for others. The one with the great hugs and overflowing heart of love. I have a strong circle of women that surround me today and have for some years...however...I am NOT THE SAME WOMAN ANYMORE! I feel pretty empty these days.

I want to get on a plane and go somewhere nice and warm. No worries, no phones to answers, no Thank you's to write, no nursery to pass in the hall, nothing... BUT THEN the thought of wearing a bathing suit these days just about makes me vomit...so that image destroys the tropical vacation idea. Yeah, I do have a sense of humor...No I haven't ever lost it...as another mentioned...I lost my daughter not my sense of humor!!

I continue to pump my breast milk and donate it to a local mom and her babe. I keep saying a silent prayer that a NICU baby and his/her mom will hear about me and be willing to take the donation if needed. I refuse to donate Gracie's milk to a breast milk bank...the amount of money that they charge buyers for an ounce of donated milk is OUTRAGEOUS! (approx. $2.25 an oz.) I feel that there should be no money involved in this process. This is an act of love, honor and healing for me.

Blessing to all of you lovely ladies. Have a wonderful weekend!


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## Mamid

I would have had no problems with giving my milk to others if either
1: there was no cost to the person recieving it
or
2: if there was a cost, I got paid for my time making the milk. rental of the industrial breast pump, sterilizers, etc.

But since neither was going to happen, my milk just dried up on its own after a year.... Ya think I can make milk? I had enough to feed a baby and my baby was just a 19 weeker... With both DS and DD I had enough to feed twins if not more!


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## Smithie

"I continue to pump my breast milk and donate it to a local mom and her babe. I keep saying a silent prayer that a NICU baby and his/her mom will hear about me and be willing to take the donation if needed. "

God bless you. Seriously, you are racking up some huge karmic credit there.


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## wilkers8

Sweetteach...Everyone keeps telling me there's no way my hips are wider, however, I swear that there isn't that much more weight I could lose and should be able to get into my pants but they don't even come close to closing. I'm glad to hear that I am not the only one.

Jackie...First, I am so very sorry for BOTH of your losses. As I can completely relate to your first loss, I long for even those 6 hours that you were able to have. I think the breakpoint of calling a loss a miscarriage versus stillbirth is 20 weeks. The pain of losing a child applies to both without doubt. However, I've never had a miscarriage but knowing what Connor felt like when he kicked me, etc, makes me believe having a stillbirth is a little worse due to the time invested, body changes, additional experiences with your child, etc. Please note that I in no way am minimizing the tragedy of a miscarriage...I think it just catches a parent more offguard when it happens after you see those successful ultrasound pictures at 20 weeks.

I found myself this week wanting to make sure that people, who have done so much for us, know how much I really do appreciate it. I realized that I haven't said thank you very much over the past six weeks...especially to my amazing husband and close friends. Honestly, until now I didn't really care. Every effort and every gesture just didn't seem to warrant a thank you. Not that the effort/gesture didn't deserve appreciation, I was just not in a state of mind to appreciate anything. I'm now looking back and remembering some of the wonderful things people did for us and wishing I had appreciated these sooner. I guess this means I'm definitely making progress in my grief. When a gesture happens now, I'm immediately grateful. For example, my best friend bought me a ring with Connor's name and birthdate inscribed on it (she even remembered my ring size from when we were in high school). She gave me the ring on the day that Connor's shower would have been. This was the best gift I could have received that day with or without a shower. I find myself constantly staring at his name and feeling like he's with me.

These emotions don't just apply to people I've known for a long time. All of you have been so kind. Allowing me to vent, basically to share my experience and I've received nothing but support and understanding. Some of you have shared stories of similar experiences or experiences I hope I will have some day. Up to this point, I've tended to not respond or post for other people's messages but I didn't really feel experienced enough to help someone else. However, please know that I appreciate this support and I thank each of you who have taken time to read my story...read about my son. It's funny how most of you know now more about me than my own mother. So thank you.

I can't believe that I'm only a few hours away from it being May. Instead of May meaning going into the home stretch and trying to deal with the warmer weather while being very pregnant, it means being the month that we are going to ttc. We are still waiting on the final results but I'm crossing my fingers that they come back in the next two weeks. If I stay on my 23 day cycle (I took some ovulation kit predicators and based on the result), I should start on the 10th of this month. I'm crossing my fingers and toes that this month's ovulation period will be a good one for us and we'll be successful. I think I might be riding my emotions a little high on this happening. I know how unlikely it is but I can't help but hope regardless. I figure at some point our luck with odds has to get better.

Question of the day: How long can a person continue to be horribly unlucky? Isn't there a rule about three bad things...my life seems to be a multiple of three right now.


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## HaveWool~Will Felt

Wilkers,
You are so sweet! If I hadn't had an emergency c-section with Gracie, I too would be very excited with trying on my first cycle. So I will send special love your way in the hopes that everything works in your favor.

I really like reading your "questions of the day"...

Question of the day: How long can a person continue to be horribly unlucky? Isn't there a rule about three bad things...my life seems to be a multiple of three right now.

In response to your question...horribly unlucky? No..I don't think it has anything to do with luck. I had to chuckle with the thought of there being a rule...we could only be so lucky. I think that things go in cycles...not sure if that makes sense. I am at a point right now where there is nothing that could really happen, outside of losing my hubbie and existing children, that could even touch the loss of my daughter. In fact I went to see an OB/GYN on Monday to have my c-section incision checked, not the same doctor that did the surgery, she had a few comments to make. She started with the type of incision that was made, her comment was that she is very concerned about how my uterus was cut and if it is possible to deliver vaginally again. Being in the process of becoming a lay midwife, never having had a c-section before, and being a HUGE advocate for natural child birth...I couldn't even react let alone respond. "What else is going to happen..." that was my exact thought. There is nothing that I can do...what is the point of getting upset. I am so drained emotionally that one more thing...you know what I mean!

So...there it is...don't know if I answered your question in all that babble...








(((((((((((((Wilkers))))))))))))))))) Blessings to you sweetheart!


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## SweetTeach

Quote:

Everyone keeps telling me there's no way my hips are wider
Ummm, have any of those people ever had a baby? Everyone knows that women's pelvic bones separate when they are pregnant, some more than others. Maybe people are trying to make you "feel better" by telling you it couldn't be so? very strange.

Luck: My cousin's 4 year old drowned in Feb and in March our car door got sidewiped by another car and when that happened I was ready to sit in my house and never leave. One would think that when we lose our baby, we get a pass that exempts us from other s*it happening, but unfortunately life doesn't seem to work that way. All we can do it let it happen and hope that we are stronger than we think we are to be able to handle what comes our way.
I hope everything's ok with your dog.

As far as thanking people, you know we are here for you so do whatever you need to get through your pain. I'm amazed that this is the first discussion board that you've posted on and that you have been able to be so honest and open about your feelings. From reading through this thread I can also see your progression through your grief. You should copy your posts here into a journal so you can have it as a record of your journey.

***GOOD LUCK*** with TTC. I am sending you lots of baby dust and positive vibes for you to be peaceful with however long or short it takes for you to conceive Connor's sibling.
ST


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## wilkers8

Jackie...I completely agree. Aside from losing my husband or another child, I don't think anything will remotely impact me. Sure I'll have sympathy and/or a little sadness but nothing can be as devastating as this. On one hand it sucks that I have had to deal with the most horrible thing that could happen to a person, but I now know I can handle anything that comes my way in the future.

SweetTeach..."with however long or short it takes", the long part of this is something I'm really pretending I don't know how much of a possibility that is. I know this could cause me quite a bit of pain considering how unlikely it is to get pregnant in only one month. However, thinking about anything longer than four weeks makes me just cringe. So I guess I'll take this four weeks at a time.

So for the first time in my life Mother's day will bring new meaning. I bought both my mom and mother-in-law cards and realized that I won't be getting anything this year. Not that had I still been pregnant we really would have done anything (I think) but knowing now that I'll be lucky if I even get out of bed that day. I thought about getting Connor's ashes from the hospital that day but we're waiting for the final results to come in (yes, no final results yet!). Truthfully, I'm nervous that people will wonder why I'm upset that day. I'm nervous that this day will just pass by with no acknowledgement, especially since this is the first Mother's day that applies to me.

So for the question of the day: Will Mother's Day ever bring me anything but sadness? I would imagine the answer deals with a subsequent child but will I not still be very sad that day for Connor?


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## HaveWool~Will Felt

Wilkers-
Mothers Day is such a special time for so many reasons. I truly believe that whether we have children or not that we are "Moms". Not sure if you have thought about the possibility of doing something to honor Conner & yourself that day. Examples coulds be buying and planting a tree or some kind of plant in your yard, make a sitting area out in your yard with something special dedicated to Conner.
A park bench with our daughters name and birthdate on it was givin to use after she died. I have this in an area of my yard that is quiet and where I have made a rose garden. I have some fairies, wind chimes and a birdhouse out there also. It seems to bring me much comfort to go and sit. Sometimes I just put out more bird seed because I can't seem to sit for even a second out there.
Maybe this might spark an idea for you and your husband. I think that it is very important to remember mom of all kinds on Mother's Day. I will send you lots of special love on that day.

Much love to you,
Jackie


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## Mamid

The absolutely worst mother's day I ever had was when I was fighting both CPS and my mother to regain custody of my daughter. I was at a native powwow and there was a "mother's dance circle" specificially for mothers who had lost their children either to CPS or in death as well as mothers with living children.

As the circle progressed, mothers were getting a carnation and a little print to keep. When the circle finally got around to where I was and I was supposed to get one, some bitch who was giving the stuff out said that I didn't deserve one and I was passed over. The lady beside me got a carnation and print and when she overheard what happened to me, she was pissed.

I was in tears for the rest of the circle.

The lady beside me had disapeared after asking me about my children. I think I told her about my lost baby as well as my DD. I know I told her about that one. She was more pissed because as I mentioned before the circle was specifically for those who lost children to CPS.

She disapeared.

The circle ended.

She reappeared with a carnation and print for me and told me I deserved it just as much if not more so because I wasn't a druggie mother who gave birth to drug addicted children and was fighting to save my daughter from an abuser.

It still hurt me so much. I've never gone back to another native mother's day powwow.

Then there's all the mother's days without my daughter and mourning her loss. Or the couple I had between my lost baby and her birth where no one would acknowledge that I had been an actual mother for a time...

Then there's my own abusive mother who turned mother's day into something horrible just because she could.

This will be my third "real mother's day" since getting pregnant with DS, my 5th one overall since DD's sperm donor didn't think that I deserved one pre-birth of DD yet was demanding of a pre-birth father's day. All the mother's days I've missed with DD because she was kept from me. After all, CPS doesn't pay for Sunday visits. (grrrrrsnarl)

I don't know if I really want to celebrate mother's day. Its just... well... not a good day for me.


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## wilkers8

I feel completely kicked down. I'm really starting to wonder if a "unlucky streak" doesn't exist than karma is really kicking us in the a**. We took our dog, Mac, into the vet for a xray check after two weeks on medicene. Unfortunately, not only did the tumor not shrink but now the doctor is convinced that Mac has progressive lung cancer. He could live as short as one month. I take great pride in that we rescued him when he was four and has spent the last four years of his life happy. I realize that the lifespan of a large dog is 8-11 years but I was really not counting on him only making 8. He's such a wonderful dog and we've always commented on how horrible the people must have been to get rid of him. Knowing that he gave him a better life is helping me to deal with this a little better. However, my husband is not doing so well. He hasn't even had time to mourn for his father, let alone his son and now his dog. This is just too much. We're adjusting to life without a dad, without our son and now we have to begin to accept life without our dog soon. I'm now really feeling like a mom who will soon have nothing in the house...not a child nor a dog.

I never wanted to say this but this just isn't fair. We didn't do anything to anyone. Why does this stuff just keep piling on us? How are we suppose to deal with one thing if another just happens within six weeks? How am I going to live without having anything in this house to care for? How can I stop from feeling like someone is just kicking us down?

One more question of the day: Can life really be this unfair to one couple? I think we've had to deal with the heartache of 30 years all within 3 months.


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## SweetTeach

You know what? Life really isn't fair. It sucks that there is so much loss around you right now. I'm really sorry about your dog.
Well, let's hope that this will be it for you for a good long time. I'm sending you good vibes to get through this very tough time Wilkers.


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## babycarrier

Thank you for sharing so much. I am truly sorry for your losses. Life can feel so unfair sometimes. And that sucks.
Take care of yourself.


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## wilkers8

Since returning to work, I've realized that I'm not finding my career as rewarding as it had once been. I'm pretty much going through the motions in my job. Thankfully, despite working with almost all men, they have been very supportive and understanding. I even learned this week that I received an unexpected promotion and raise. I felt pretty guilty about this as I've only returned to work due to the fact that I'm the breadwinner in the family. Not to mention, that I plan on refusing to travel for quite some time (especially if we're lucky enough to get pregnant soon). However, my boss said that wasn't a problem and that I've already earned that promotion. After last year, that's true but it does feel weird to not being overly excited about this.
This evening would have been the last prenatal class...the breastfeeding class. The idea being that today I would have been ready for a baby. Seems ironic considering that I was ready for Connor back in March and no one prepared me for having to say goodbye. I guess nothing could prepare me for this type of pain and loss but it doesn't stop me from wanting to warn every other pregnant person to enjoy every single day of their pregnancy regardless of the symptoms.

We are probably driving our dog nuts. We've become obsessed with pictures and giving him attention as we don't know how long we will have him. My husband has been bothering me to get a puppy since last year so we've really discussed rescuing another dog before Mac leaves this world. It's strange how I'm having similar fears as with Connor (probably elavated because of Connor). We don't want Mac to feel replaced by bringing in another dog but we think he might enjoy having a puppy around in his final days/months. Plus, I think it will be easier on us if we don't have a completely empty home. To go from not needing to take care of a baby to also now not needing to take care of a dog is just too much! Plus I have plenty of time to train a puppy now a days since doing anything outside of my home seems so pointless.

My brother graduates from college this weekend. Just a few months ago, I was telling him that we would have to play it day by day on whether I would be able to attend (travel distance). I hated the idea of possibly missing this day. However, now it will be the first day that I see some of my family. yes, I haven't seen most of my family since we lost Connor (we're not that close). I'm absolutely dreading this. First, I don't want to take away from my brother's happy moment. Second, I am fairly positive that people will react in ways that will just piss me off. Lastly, it's just going to be another reminder of how much my life is no longer impacted by a baby (i.e. nothing is preventing me from attending but my emotions). Truthfully, I'm not even sure I can honestly say I'm happy for him on his graduation day. Not that I'm wishing for anything bad for him but just that with now our dog being sick...I'm pretty much at rock bottom. I'm starting to wonder if all of the progress I had made just went out the window because the idea of getting into my bed and waking up when it's 2005 doesn't seem like a bad idea at all.

So my attempt at looking at something positive...I should be starting my second period within the week (likely the 10th). So the ovulation period to start trying is not far off. I'm realizing that the more things continue to dump on us the more I become focused on wanting to be pregnant. I know that a pregnancy will not resolve or remove all of the grief that we are dealing with but having something to hope for and look forward to...is something we drastically need/want.

Question of the day: Why is it so hard to see the positive sides?


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## wilkers8

I can't remember when the last time I watched ER but because I decided to watch the final episode of friends, I kept watching as ER came on. I am not sure if I've ever seen a show talk about a stillbirth before or if I don't remember because it was never so close and real to me.

I watched the father feel for any kicks. I can remember wanting to feel Connor kick so badly. My husband even tried to z-bert my stomach which usually made Connor kick.

I watched the father & doctor ask when the last time she felt the baby move. Her responses were similiar to mine, he's always moving around. However, I never did kick counts and I didn't know the difference between movement and kicking.

I watched them sit in that ultrasound room and the image of no activity on the screen. I remember the woman just saying "I'm sorry" to us and my husband saying "are you serious".

I watched them roll her into a room with just complete shock and disbelief on her face. The nurse showing her the tv remote and she obviously doesn't care. I remember the doctor (not my doctor) asking us if we wanted to go get a bite to eat. I've been told that many people talked to me but I don't
remember any of it. I was in that complete state of shock and disbelief. I remember the feeling that I could care less what they were doing around me or to me.

I watched them make make decisions about who to call. I can remember making those dreadful calls to say we lost the baby. I kept pushing myself thinking that maybe if I said it enough that I would start to believe that this was real.

I watched them discuss how long before delivery. I remember thinking that I had no idea how I would be able to deliver this child so I had a fear of when it would actually happen and wanted to delay it as long as possible. However, on the complete opposite side, the idea of my baby being died within me was too horrible to think that it would last for much longer.

I watched them be awkward with each other. This is completely different from us in that there was no issues with this. I'm very thankful that we had a strong marriage to go through this together.

I watched someone tell the father about their baby and saying good luck. I realized that I don't know if this happened to my husband. I had been shielded from the other moms and babies but my husband was not.

I watched her deliver. It's ironic in that you've expected that the delivery of your child would be this amazing experience. I remember barely being able to mutter "was my baby a boy or girl". This was not an amazing experience. It was being one step closer to saying goodbye to our son.

I watched them get immediate answers that it was a cord accident. The doctor responded with it was "Just bad luck". I still don't have results and feel like have the worst luck on the face of this earth.

I watched them ask if they want to hold him. She said No. I am so thankful they had prepared us with a list of questions such as this. I probably would have said the same thing. Allowing me to think about it the night before, gave me time to realize this was what I wanted...needed.

I watched as the other people in the ER found out. Comments such as "tough break". I sometimes wonder what people say about us. I guess this is one time that I'm thankful that I don't know what people say behind our backs.

I watched them binding her breasts. I left a sports bra on for weeks.

I watched them taking footprints and locks of hair. I am very thankful that we have several mementos of our son including footprints, hair, etc.

I watched them cut to a woman who was ignoring bed rest orders because she's a week overdue. I immediately thought don't risk that baby. You have no idea how much of a blessing being pregnant really is.

I watched them try to cope with what happened. I remember my husband sat on my bed and wrapped his arms around me and our son and we cried. We cried like we've never cried before. We kissed him and told him how much we love him.

Maybe this was a sign. Maybe I need to believe this was a sign.

Question of the day: Is this story really different for any parent dealing with a stillbirth?


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## Mamid

Just one of many stories...

Just one of many...

I don't even know if I will watch it tonight.

Midwife says Bun's ok. That doesn't help me about my lost one....


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## iris0110

I worked last night so I didn't get to watch all of it. I only watched a little. I am an avid follower of ER. I recorded the Friends finalley and ER so I can watch them this weekend, but my mom warned me not to watch ER. She doesn't think I can handle it. She might be right. I don't remeber there ever being a stillbirth on ER before, however there was one show where a woman came in and her baby died just after delivery. He had some genetic disorder and couldn't live outside the womb. I also remember several shows where babies were born much too soon. Right after I lost Arawyn they played a show where Abby was working in the NICU. It was just too much for me.

I don't know if it is really much different for any mom who has a stillbirth. I remember being very sick after Arawyn was born, and I guess that changes the story a little. Also the nurses never bound my breasts, Dh had to do it for me. I also wore a sports bra for what seemed like forever.

This is just such a hard time for so many of us. I am not feeling like a very good mother coming up to this mothers day. I feel like I haven't done enough to protect my children. Poor Ds is almost three and he still can't talk. It seems like I spend every day fighting with some Dr or therapist about tests and results for him. Then I lost Arawyn. No matter what the Dr says I feel like I should have been able to do more for her. It does seem like things have come to a cumulitive disaster. I think maybe the idea of crawling into bed and sleeping till 2005 is a good one.


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## babycarrier

Shannon: You sound like a wonderful mother. It sounds like you are experiencing so many different emotions. I know I have no words of wisdom to help; your post touched my heart and I wanted to pass on a hug. I hope you get some well deserved rest.


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## wilkers8

Shannon...not a very good mom feeling...I can relate. Once I start to come to terms with the fact that I'm a mom, I start thinking I must be a bad one if my son is not with me. Then when I put emotions aside and think logically, I know I'm being ridiculous. I don't think I ever thought about what made a good mom versus a bad mom. However, I think it's as simple as a mom who loves her children more than herself is a good mom. You are obviously a good mom.

So I spent yesterday evening thinking on the positives of what Connor brought to me. I've had such a hard time seeing anything positive in everything that has been happening that I'm using the show as a sign to force myself to think of the positives. I realize that I will continue to learn what these three months have taught us for the next 10 years but I should be able to see the obvious ones. So here's what I've gained/learned/appreciate (in no particular order):

* My husband is my soulmate. I never had any doubts about marrying this man but I could have never imagined how amazing he would be in the face of tragedy. I'm so very lucky to have found him and to have a renewed appreciation for him. I wish for every other person to have a marriage as strong and supportive as ours.

* My closest girlfriends, the ones that spent my wedding day morning with me, have proven ten-fold over that I had the exact right people with me that day. They have listened to me complain and neglect them but never for a second have I felt like a burden to them. I would imagine very few people have such a close group of friendships that have lasted years and I'm lucky enough to have four of them. It's a wonderful thing to know that these four people will continue to be my friends throughout my entire life.

* I've also realized which friendships were superficial. I've learned to let go of these people. I wish them the best but I don't have room in my life to hold onto friendships that really provide no support...regardless of the past. This would normally be an upsetting thing but instead it allows me to spend more time with people that really have made a difference in my life.

* From the moment that I see a positive pregnancy test, I will appreciate every minute. I don't care what symptoms may come my way or what fears are in my head. I will enjoy ever minute I have with my child.

* I will not take things for granted or assume that I have complete control. This is much easier said than done for me but I'm learning to accept this as reality.

* I'm stronger than I ever thought I was. I'm dealing with the most horrible thing that could happen to someone...the loss of a baby. If I can handle
this, I can handle anything.

* I will no longer assume that financial stability is enough or would make me happy. A career can quickly mean nothing even after hard work and dedication to advancing myself in the professional world. However, having financial stability has provided me with the means to take six weeks to deal with the initial grief.

* I would have done anything for my child to have lived even for a one minute.

* I've learned that when it rains...it pours. I just hope that a rainbow is out there for us soon.

* Most importantly...You can be a mom without a living child. You are a mom the minute that pregnancy test is positive. Once you are a mom, you are always a mom!

After writing them down, some of these do seem fairly obvious and have the "well, duh!" feeling. The bottom line is...I thank you, Connor, for making me a more appreciative person of things that really matter...I thank you, Connor, for making me a mom.

Question of the day: Do you think that Connor knows that despite how incredibly sad I am, I'm incredibly happy that I had 28 weeks with him?


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## SweetTeach

Shannon,
I'm not going to tell you not to feel that way because it wouldn't change the fact that you feel that way (and we all seem to struggle with this). What I will say is that when I feel myself sinking into that type of thinking, I let it happen however it's going to happen and then I try to let it go. Inevitably, the next day (or hour or whatever) I start to find things that counter those feelings and I try to hold on more tightly to those things. It's such a rollercoaster...

Wilkers, I can relate to your entire post but I want to respond to this:

Quote:

Question of the day: Do you think that Connor knows that despite how incredibly sad I am, I'm incredibly happy that I had 28 weeks with him?
I don't know what form of spirituality (if any) you subscribe to, but I believe that not only does Connor's spirit know how happy you are to have had 28 weeks with him (and you might have had a lot more than that in other lifetimes), but his soul _chose_ to be a part of yours for that time, for whatever reasons. What are the wonderful things that he got from being connected to you (and you from him) for such a short time?
Again, I don't know if that makes sense in your worldview, but for me, it is very comforting. To me, life is about more than what we can see and touch so the relationship that I have (and I believe you have) with y/our loved ones who've passed on actually transcends the "living" world.


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## HaveWool~Will Felt

Thank you SweetTeach for the words regarding spirituality...I am right there with you..when I think of a loss of any type...that is what I believe to be true.
Wilkers-I hope that what was shared brings some peace to your soul. I think of you often...and wonder how each day works for you.

Much love to you all...
Jackie


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## gossamer

Quote:

Question of the day: Do you think that Connor knows that despite how incredibly sad I am, I'm incredibly happy that I had 28 weeks with him?
Dear Wilkers,
One of the most comforting things someone told me after my daughter died was that she believed love too crossed the placenta and my daughter knew then and knows today how much I love her. THat was so comforting to me because I had the same question about whether or not my daughter had any idea how precious she is to me. I hope this thought can bring you some comfort also.
Gossamer


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## iris0110

Sweet Teach- thank you, you are right of course. Today I feel better, probably because I have had more rest, and a little bit of time to my self to recharge. This week seems like the longest week ever to me, and I am pretty sure it is because of mother's day. It is hard aproaching a day that celebrates motherhood when one or more of your children can't be with you.

Wilkers- I believe that every child's spirit chooses his/her mother. Connor saw something very special in you and wanted to share his lessons with you. I know that he knows and has always known how important he is to you.


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## DarkHorseMama

Wilkers...big hugs, mama.

Along with the spirit babies mentioned in the above posts: I miscarried fairly early into a pregnancy last year and it was a time of introspection for both DH and me. During the plumbing of my thoughts, I had the sense that this baby's spirit knew it was not quite the right time and had departed until a time that better suited its purpose. My DH and I had chosen the name Owen (after DH's uncle) if we were to have a boy, but we had not made that knowledge known to anyone yet.

Several weeks later I was at my mother's house and next to her computer was a list of names...very obviously a prayer list just by the people on there. At the bottom of the list was the name Owen. Somewhat stunned, I asked my mom about the Owen on the list and she looked at me oddly and reminded me that we had told her several months ago that DH's uncle Owen was having some medical concerns and she wrote down his name to pray for him. I had a tingly sensation while reading that name on the list and I told her that Owen was the name that we had chosen for a boy although we had not told anybody.

That night DH and I conceived our new DS...of course he would be named Owen.

There is no doubt in my mind it was the same spirit. I felt it all through the pregnancy right down to me stating early on that I knew it was a boy and that he was going to be exactly like his father....a gentle, sensitive soul. And he is.









Like iris0110 says above, I absolutely believe that his spirit chose me and even though he did leave for a time, he came back. Perhaps the same spirit will visit you again, perhaps not, but know that your son loves you and chose you for the wonderful caring person that you are.


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## wilkers8

Thank you all for reassuring me that Connor knew how much he is loved. I think I did know that I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't the only one who thought this might be the case.

I've slowly started to post replies to other people's posts. I guess that must mean that I'm making progress. Before I would read but never had the energy to try to respond. Now I don't think I have any more energy but just understanding that I'm not alone. I just hope that I make sense when I post to others!

I went to my brother's college graduation on Saturday. The college has a Catholic heritage and so the ceremony had many religious statements/prayers. I found myself laughing inside at some of the comments and thinking "not in my world". Both my husband and I were what we referred to as "holiday Catholic" meaning we only really went to church on holidays and traditional events. However, both of us having been feeling more agnostic. Simply because if I believe that there is someone planning and laying this out then I have to believe this person is a real jacka**. Sorry if I've offended anyone, I know this topic can be very touchy.

I received a plant and flowers from my mom and mother-in-law for Mother's Day. One of my friends called me in the morning and let me just vent. My husband's best friend took us to lunch (we went to a bar as to be sure I wouldn't see any babies). I don't know if I wanted more gestures this day or not but I am thankful for more than what some deserving moms get. I just feel so cheated on what this day should have been...what it gets to be for everyone else.

Question of the day: Why do we (moms who have to deal with so much with the just the loss of a child) also get cheated on so many other things? I guess they are all related but it just seems so unfair. I don't get to be with my son but celebrating Mother's Day doesn't seem right either.


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## BelovedBird

Wilkers, (((hugs)))

I am an interloper in this forum, but I wanted to share that I have a friend whose first child was a stillbirth. She now has 7 living (bli ayin hara) children.

May you find comfort and have the family you dream of soon.

As others have said, I too believe that our children choose us as their parents and that that no longer living relatives know how you feel and see you in this world. I also believe that in the world to come everyone will be united with all of the children that they conceived, and even one's that they did not.


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## wilkers8

Just when I think I couldn't possibly have anything more to write, the thoughts just come pouring out of me. I wonder when sharing all of this will become less important. I wonder if it will ever be less important.

So this week definitely marked a new phase. I guess it was fitting that Mother's Day kicked it off. I had a doctor's appointment this afternoon. I had been putting off my checkup appt so that I would time it along with getting the results for Connor's test. But tomorrow will mark eight weeks and my second cycle so I needed his official blessing to start trying. However, the results were in...Unexplained. I guess the bottom line is the chance of this happening again is like lighting striking twice. Even with a non-definitive answer, I feel some closure. I needed this part done so badly. I feel a ton of pressure lifted only to be replaced with another pound of pressure. We've been given the official blessing to ttc. So once my period arrives the countdown will begin and I will be wishing, hoping, even praying that we are able to conceive in one month. It would be only fair for things to beat the odds for a positive outcome instead of all of these negative outcomes.

We are also in the process of determining when to put our beloved dog down. My husband and I have agreed that putting him through kemo would only be for us and not for him. So we will be watching him closely and the minute we think he is either in pain or horrible discomfort, we will say goodbye. I am dealing with this much better than my husband. My husband said something that I'm not sure exactly how I feel about...he said that I was more bonded with Connor but that doesn't stop him from feeling that pain. He's more bonded with the dog but that doesn't stop me from feeling that pain. Part of me feels honored that my husband understands the bond that I have with Connor. The other part of me wishes he could have been as bonded as I was. I used to always say "if my husband could carry a child, I would let him in a heartbeat". Now I wouldn't give up this honor up for anything.

We also finally received the Certificate of Stillbirth for Connor. I didn't realize that all states don't provide some sort of official acknowledgement. It's nothing like a birth certificate but I'll take anything (lists his name, date, our names, place, doctors name, gestational age, etc). Somehow, getting this certificate meant that legally people understood that he was real...that he was alive...that he was my son. I know that sounds strange, as it is just a piece of paper from the government but that's what it ended up meaning to me.

Question of the day: Why do I feel the strong need to have people recognize Connor? Shouldn't it be enough that my husband and I know? (Ok, that was two questions...lol)


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## QueeTheBean

Wilkers8/Connor's Mama:

I don't know why I happened to open this thread--I have never really come to this forum before. Your story is one of the most moving, emotional, touching, and beautifully written piece of work I've ever seen. I hope that you are keeping every word to look back on some day, and perhaps one day to share with others who are going through the same thing.

Why do you feel the need to have people recognize Connor? Simply put, because you are his mother--he was your little boy--all mothers want their children acknowledged. You are no different in that respect---it is just more complicated, I guess.

May all good things come to you . . . .


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## wilkers8

QueeTheBean...thank you for such kind words. You motivated me to go back and read my previous posts, which I hadn't done up to this point. It was probably one of the best things I've done in a while. As I'm trying to gain some closure and start a new phase, I was having difficulty thinking I had made any progress at all (see the anger paragraph below) but after reading the posts, I can see my progress. I had no idea how helpful writing this would be. So this confirms it...this post is likely to get a number more pages before I'm done.

My period hasn't returned yet, I was expecting for a 23 day cycle but it should happen very soon. I might have been wrong with reading the ovulation sticks and my normal 25 day cycle is occurring which would mean that I would start today. I thought I would be a little upset about my period returning (as it's another reminder) but this time I know it means that we can ttc very soon&#8230;although this is bringing a mixture of emotions to light. Officially knowing we can try again makes me very scared that something else is going to go wrong in our lives and I'm terrified it would be with another baby. My husband is constantly telling me we can't live our lives just waiting for another bad thing but its hard not to given our recent series of crap.

So I lost my temper a little this week. We hired this company to repaint our house. Sounds simple, of course not. The head guy was a real jerk. He would constantly lie about things and treat me as if I'm an idiot and couldn't figure out that he's lying. Finally, he said the wrong thing...he commented that I must have little to do since I was home all the time (I work from home when not at a client site and he had started while I was still on FMLA. I flipped out. I pretty much made him feel 2 inches tall. I told him that he picked the wrong woman to be messing with right now given that my father-in-law and son recently died and that our dog is close. He replied with his neighbor recently died. I wanted to physically harm this man...I stomped up the stairs, looked him dead in the eye and responded with "when you baby dies...then talk to me, otherwise you can wait for my husband to get home. This conversation is over", followed by me slamming the door in his face. As they finished up today, two days after this incident, he reduced the final price and gave us move certificates for as he put "sometimes I'm an idiot and I put my foot in my mouth". The polite and appropriate thing to respond would have been to say "that's ok" but I just didn't really say anything. Instead I thought, maybe next time you won't be such an idiot. (Note: our paint job did turn out nice)

Aside from this little episode, the best thing about this week so far...both my husband and I have a sense of closure. The waiting for results is done...the waiting for when we could start to ttc is over...the waiting is over. I'm ok with the waiting being over doesn't mean the grief is gone but it does bring acceptance to allowing us to start a new phase while dealing with the old phase. I know phase is not the right word but there is no right word to describe the difference between any time before this week and the rest of our lives. I'm just glad I'm at this point as we start preparing for ttc. I am confident that we understand and accept that we are trying for our second child...a sibling for our baby boy. I'm ready to feel the fears and hopes related to a subsequent pregnancy. In fact, I completely long for it. I long to make sure that I enjoy every minute with Connor's sibling. I long to make sure that my next little one stays with me as long as possible. I long to be able to accept other pregnant people as I would now have hope. I long to be able to hold other people's babies as I would now have hope.

Question of the day: What are some of the typical differences between pregnancies? I've never read anything about subsequent pregnancies (with or without a loss) other than the how to cope type of information. Will I feel a little one earlier in the pregnancy? Will I show much faster?


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## GoodWillHunter

Wilkers8, you may show a bit faster... probably will, as your uterus has been stretched before (compliments of your Connor...) He paved the way for his future sibling. You may feel movement sooner. I have to say, for me, yes, each pregnancy was different, but I attribute it to the different personality of the baby inside. Connor had his personality and your next child will have a different one.

I believe in you and your ability to have children... Your DH sounds like one in a million. You are blessed...


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## iris0110

Wilkers- first I wanted to say congratulations on getting the go ahead to start TTCing







You and I will be going through this together looks like. I just got the pathology back on what they removed from my uterus on the 29th (it was a piece of placenta) and the Dr said we could go ahead and start TTCing again. So you and I can support each other if that sounds good to you. I also wanted to add I am sorry about all the crap that seems to be piling up on you lately. I hope you can concieve quickly and start a new chapter of good things happening.

Alright as far as subsequent pregnancies go I don't know about after a loss, but I do know a thing or two about second pregnancies. You usually show quicker, with Ds you couldn't tell I was pregnant until I was ready to pop, but with Arawyn I was showing within a few months. I can remember a particular comment my brother made around Thanksgiving last year. He looked at me and said "wow you are huge." I wasn't particularly pleased with his choice of words, but he was right I was only about 4 months at the time. Another difference was that I felt Arawyn moving much earlier that Ds. I could feel her bopping around by about 14 weeks. She also had a different temperment even early on. Ds was constantly kicking and punching, and if I acidently woke him up he would hiccup for an hour. Arawyn was calmer and I usually felt her turning and stretching rather than kicking. She however would kick if I bent over and squashed her a little. I also had morning sickness with Arawyn, but not with Ds. Some mothers say they can tell the sex of their babies by whether or not they have morning sickness. Other than that second pregnancies usually differ from first pregnancies more relating to the woman and the difference in the temperment of the baby. You may notice that your next baby is more or less fiesty, or that you crave different foods. But, it really just depends on you.

I don't know if any of that helped or made sense, but I am really hungry and starting to ramble so I will sign off and go eat. Good luck Wilkers, I will be sending you baby dust.


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## Ms. Mom

This thread is such a loving tribute to your child









I'd like to make sure this thread goes in the archives. Let me know when you'd like me to put it there. You can either wait until you feel it's done, or close it when it get's large, archive it and start a new one.








this must be so healing.


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## wilkers8

Ms. Mom...I'm not sure what it means to put this thread in the archives. Is it so that it's later available to possible women who experience a stillborn, especially their first born. I guess a good breaking point to start a new thread will be the day I find out I'm pregnant again. However, will I still be able to access this thread? I'm keeping a local copy and am realizing that one day I might share this with more people as I get more comfortable with my own emotions and feelings.

Shannon...I'm so happy to hear you also got wonderful news and the problem has been resolved. Supporting each other sounds like a wonderful idea. I'm sure my posts so far are only the beginning of this journey.

GoodWillHunter...ability to have children. I've tried to not think of myself as unable to have children because the thought of that is just too scary. However, immediately reading your post, I was comforted to hear someone else say this. I guess I've been trying to focus on first even being able to get pregnant again (and as quickly as possible) and then start worrying about being able to carry a beautiful child to term.

I guess that's where my scare is the deepest...not that I won't be able to create a child but that I won't be able to "have" a child. Have a child to feed, have a child to rock to sleep, have a child to make laugh...Have a child physically with me. This is probably why I have such a problem facing pregnant women and women with newborns...I wanted to be that person and I'm afraid it will never happen. So it's not just waiting four more weeks to find out if we're pregnant...it is not knowing if we'll have a child with us in the end regardless. So every newborn I see or every pregnant woman I see, just brings a jealous reaction out of me. Not that I would wish any harm to anyone but I can't help but feel why did we deserve this outcome and they got that one. They get to have each day with knowing or experiencing their little bundle of joy. Why didn't this happen for us? They get to have everyone know they are a mom with pictures they can share, baby stuff in plain sight throughout their house, or simply having their child with them. Why didn't this happen for us? Instead I have pictures that only a select few will ever see...we have baby stuff that is kept in a closed room...we have nothing else tangible to display to people. Then as if dealing with the jealously feelings are not hard enough...I then start to deal with the guilty feelings. Guilty that I'm not more excited for a pregnant friend, that I'm not excited for baby showers, that I'm not eager to hold anyone else's child, that I'm not interested in anyone else's happy baby outcomes. How incredibly horrible is that! I know that I wouldn't want any of my friends to experience what I've gone through but feeling this way can only start to make them feel like I am. Given how many of my friends are pregnant (current count is five), I'm nervous that my selfishness will alienate me from them due to hurting their feelings. I know that I have to rely on them being understanding but if the roles were reversed I can't honestly say how I would have reacted. This is such a wonderful and huge part of their lives and for a friend to not want to be a part of it...would be a hard thing for anyone to understand except those with a loss as well. This is just so hard.

Question of the day: Anyone have tips to get beyond the jealous feeling for other people's happy baby stories?


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## gossamer

Nope, no answer to your question of the day. I am still jealous of anybody that gets to bring their baby home. It might abate once I bring my own home. It's even worse if I don't like the people. If I like them, I can rationalize, "well they are nice people, they deserve a baby." If I don't like them I keep thinking "What did they do to deserve a baby." If anyone else has some good ideas, please share them.
Gossamer


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## starfairy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wilkers8*

I think the breakpoint of calling a loss a miscarriage versus stillbirth is 20 weeks. The pain of losing a child applies to both without doubt. However, I've never had a miscarriage but knowing what Connor felt like when he kicked me, etc, makes me believe having a stillbirth is a little worse due to the time invested, body changes, additional experiences with your child, etc. Please note that I in no way am minimizing the tragedy of a miscarriage...I think it just catches a parent more offguard when it happens after you see those successful ultrasound pictures at 20 weeks.

.

I havent looked at this thread for a long while - but I had to reply to this.

Actually, some states consider a stillbirth anything aft 18 weeks. it varies.
The definitions are hurtful to some of us who have had a second triemester loss,for several reason. I absolutely think that the further you get in pregnancy the harder it is, but I have hated having my pain minimized as "just a miscarraige". I absolutely cling to the fact that to some an 18 week pregnancy is a stillbirth. My baby died at 18 weeks. Just 1 day after my husband felt him kick for the first time. My belly had grown, I had 2 new stretch marks & I had been feeling my baby move for weeks. After he died I waited 2 1/2 weeks to deliver. I went into labor, my water broke & I delivered my tiny baby into my own hands & had to break the cord. because the placenta would not descend. I nearly died that day, paramedics did not expect me to make it to the hospital alive. When my dh did not readily give up his body (yes, we had a little boy - his tiny penis is etched in my mind forever, I see that face that looked so like my other ds's & I see his little feet, all the other things about him....) they called the sherrif & threatened to take out other children away. 2 days later my milk came in.

None of this is ANYTHING like my 8 miscarraiges that occured before 12 weeks.

Also, i had a very medical pregnancy, lots of ultrasounds (one just the week before he died) & listening to his heartbeat.

I am sure that it is harder the further along you are - for sure! But losing a baby in the second trimester isnt the same as an early miscarraige either.

(((HUGS))) for your loss............


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## wilkers8

Starfairy...I was unaware that there is a difference in weeks in some states. However, my point was not so much of the loss being a stillbirth versus a miscarriage as much as what was invested. I completely agree that feeling the kicking, water breaking...is what I meant by being a little worse. After reading your post, it's completely obvious how hurtful assuming a 2nd trimester miscarriage is not a big deal. Maybe the loss shouldn't be categorized by miscarriage versus stillbirth but by trimester loss.

My friend who is due five days after Connor was due in June, asked me what I want her to do when they go into labor (i.e. how/when to tell me). I was overcome with necessity for her to tell me after she delivered that she was fine and their baby girl is safe. I warned her that although I don't know when I will be able to see them, knowing that one of the two of these connected babies is safe is very, very important to me.

We attended our first support group meeting on Thursday. It was a special meeting for memorials, so the attendance was a fairly big group of people. Both my husband and I agreed that the meeting seems to be geared a little more for women but he felt comfortable to go again. I pretty much couldn't speak. Here I was the one that wanted to go and when we got there, I completely closed up. One of my biggest motivators for going was the hope that we would meet another couple in a similiar situation (i.e. no other children, about our age, etc). I would have liked to have someone local to spend quite a bit of time with. Unfortunately, we seemed to be the only ones in our age bracket that didn't have other kids. There was one couple that were still in college, so we're hoping they attend the next meeting also. Overall, the meeting was ok. It's so hard to put faces on people that make up these statistics and realize how different everyone's backgrounds are. It's so hard to see the look of pain in a woman's eyes when she talks about her daughter that died over 10 years ago (I see an image of who I will be in 10 years). We will definitely attend the next month's meeting.

So the phone calls, cards, and flowers have completely stopped (aside from my four closest friends). I will get an occasional email asking how am I doing and if the results were back but only from a handful of people. On one hand, I haven't had to deal with stupid comments/questions. In addition, I'm not wasting time spending energy on people who haven't found the time to contact me. However, there are a few people that I'm completely caught off guard by them not contacting me again. I realize that it's only been eight weeks but I'm learning that I change and deal with so much in just a single day let alone weeks. So when I do talk to someone after a couple of weeks, it's uncomfortable. I guess there's no winning. I guess I have to start just accepting that relationships have changed and will never be the same. I completely realize that some people are trying to purposely give me space and time, which I know that only time will tell whether a friend was doing this or not. Unfortunately, in the mean time, it just makes me feel like I have some sort of curse that people don't want to be around me. I guess I now really understand the difference between friend and acquintance.

Question of the day: How do you deal/accept/talk with people that you had once considered friends but turn out to be not much of a friend?


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## Mollie

I am so sorry.... you have found a good group here, I hope you can find some comfort. hang in there, and be gentle with yourself.


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## mama7x

Wilkers,
I'm new to the thread and MDC- our baby boy, (first) was born still at 22 weeks. That was ten years ago. I wanted to share with you a couple things. Everything you write brings back such memories of when I went through this. ( today is the anniversary of the first ultrasound where they saw things wrong... you hang on to these things because I think you have little else.) But things will get easier. You will never forget Connor, the challenge will be to remember him without pain. I know that that is impossible to consider now. Be patient. It took me 2 years to even be able to give the baby a name, (my then 2 1/2 year old named his brother, out of the blue, one night, asking about him. When I told him that I was just too sad to even name him he said,"but he has to have a name, Mom. His name will be Jordan." And so it was. Your family will help you heal. And if you decide to have more children, you may find that they are an amazing part of helping you come to terms with what has happened in your life. They see things we can't. I had friends too, that turned away when I needed them most. Years later they said to me, "I am so sorry about back then, I had no idea what to do..." I think they were as lost as I was. It wasn't that they weret really friends, they just didn't know how. I didn't know how. How I'd make it through an hour, a day, a life after this loss. But ten years later, I'm here. And so is Jordan. The same sweet baby that he was when he was born.
It gets easier to breathe, Wilkers. Remember that allowing yourself to heal doesn't mean forgetting him. It was a mistake I made that took years of therapy to learn. My grief was all I had, so I held on to it tight. It will take time, but you can let some of it go. Connor will never disappear, never. New babies may come, and you'll love each of them differently, and he'll take his place in your family. Hugs to you hon, we're all here to help hold you up.

Ang.


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## SweetTeach

Quote:

It's even worse if I don't like the people. If I like them, I can rationalize, "well they are nice people, they deserve a baby." If I don't like them I keep thinking "What did they do to deserve a baby." If anyone else has some good ideas, please share them.
Oh Gossamer,
this is soooo where I'm at right now! And no, I don't have any good ideas!

Quote:

Question of the day: How do you deal/accept/talk with people that you had once considered friends but turn out to be not much of a friend?
You know what, who says you have to deal/accept/talk with them? I'm waiting for one friend in particular to call me and I haven't decided if I'm going to let loose on her or just tell her that I'm busy and have a nice life.







: ~probably not the answer you were looking for...


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## Katana

Quote:

Question of the day: How do you deal/accept/talk with people that you had once considered friends but turn out to be not much of a friend?
I've been mostly lurking here, but this question made me think of some things. First about friends. I believe we have the friends we do for a lot of different reasons.

Some because we are in their sphere, have gotten to know them, and are with them a lot. For instance, someone that we work with, or go to school with. These people are individuals that we are friends with out of almost a necessity and because of circumstance. Maybe we didn't 'click' with them instantly, maybe we did. Either way, we can spend a lot of time with them for a number of years, but once that time/school year/job is finished, we might drift a little bit. Yes, they were fun to be with in one environment, but they don't fit into all of the spaces we need to move in and out of as life goes on.

Then, there are the friends we have because we connected to them, we 'clicked', we would have been friends with them regardless of how we met or where we met. We genuinely care and love each other, and have a deep connection. Personally, I believe these people are few and far between.

Both kinds of friends have their time and their importance. You are in a time of your life where you need support and love and care that is genuine and constant. Yes, it's likely that the numbers are going to thin out. But that's okay.

When something traumatic or awful happens in our lives, where we need support and love from our friends, it can get sticky. I believe that people can still love us, but not know what we need, or how to give us the support or shoulder that we need. Our emotions and thoughts are already so tangled and broken, any slight from them, no matter how small, can have huge ripple effects.

I think that's why sometimes, it's easier to reach out to new people, who you don't have such a deep emotional bond with, but understand your situation better, because they have been through it.

I believe there are seasons to a friendship, and that it is all right to walk away from someone for a while, or to focus energy elsewhere if they are not helpful or positive in your life. Or if they can't or won't understand what you are dealing with. In a little while, things may change, and you might be able to reconnect.

I think one of the hardest things about loss, is the lonliness. You can have fifteen friends or you can have one, but there is always going to be a time where you'll feel completely alone and hopeless. Or when you needed someone to talk to, and no one was there. And as hard as it is not to judge people for not being there, for not knowing what you needed, or giving you what you needed, this is a part of the journey, one of the most undesirable parts.









I believe sometimes we have to walk alone, even for a couple of seconds, if for no other reason than to know that we can, that we have that strength and that ability, deep inside of us.

If someone is causing you more stress, more sadness, more pain, more hurt, put them away from you. If it's meant to work out in the end, I believe it will. Right now, focus your energy and time on people that can give you what you need. I don't even think you have officially 'end' the relationship, just let it fade away on it's own.

You are going through so much change. Relationships are changing, every part of your life is changing as a result of you losing Connor. Change is undesirable even in the best of circumstances, to have to go through it on top of the loss of a child is so hard. Even the most surface of friendships going through a change is still a change, and still another loss. More confusion, more grief, etc.

That's another hard thing about grief, it throws you into this place you're not ready to be, don't want to stay in, but can't get out of. And it's all so unfamiliar. It can take such a long time to understand this concept, let alone deal with it, you know?

I'm of the persuasion, do what you have to do to get through. Worry or clean up the mess you make getting there later. Just get through today. And then tomorrow. And then the next day. And then, when it's been a month, rejoice that it has been a month, and that it's over and that you don't have to go through those days ever again. I also always try to think, maybe it's not going to ever get better, but at least, please let it be different.

I'm glad to read that you're able to TTC, and that you went to a support group meeting. I hope both things will be helpful and healing for you.


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## gossamer

One thing I have found true for me is that my tragedy didn't necessarily change any relationships I had or people in my life, but it definitely magnified my realtionships good and bad. My husband and I are closer than ever. My mom and I haven't spoken since 4 days after Mary Rose was born. Not really a change either way, just a magnification of what was sooooo right with DH and I and soooooooo wrong with my mom and I. So yes, I have had some friends fall by the wayside, but I have also found compassion and kindness in places I never expected to. ANd for the most part, those that I have lost, haven't really left that big a hole in my life.
Gossamer


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## iris0110

I agree who says you have to accept people who don't come to you when you need them. I have a few people who I thought were friends who didn't lift a finger to help me or console me after I lost Arawyn. However I was deeply touched when a close friend of mine who I hadn't seen in a while showed up in my hospital room with condolences. He was so sweet and so worried about DH and I. It was hard seeing him though, it still is, as he was born at only 23 weeks, just 2 ounces more than Arawyn and he lived and that was 20 years ago. It is hard to know that Arawyn might have been able to live through being born so early if I had gotten to the hospital sooner, but that is another topic altogether.

As far as people who werent there for you, I would just ignore them. If they weren't enough of your friend to at least give you a call, then they really aren't worth your time. There are always some allowances that can be made, a friend who was afraid to contact you at first feeling that you needed some space, or a pregnant friend who was afraid you would be upset by seeing her pregnant, but if they just didn't acknowledge you and your loss at all, then who needs them. I mean obviously they aren't going to be a good suport system for you, so why waist your time trying to be there for them.

I'm sorry I am just a little bitter lately. ((SIGH)) it has been a rough week.


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## wilkers8

So my period hasn't started and I'm at the brink of insanity. According to that dang ovulation kit, I should have started on Monday (23 day cycle)...nope. Then I thought, well I'm probably on my normal 25 day cycle and I'll start on Wednesday...nope. Then I thought, once in my life I did have a 27 day cycle and I'll start on Friday the 14th...nope. Now it's Sunday morning, day number 29 and still no freakin period. If you count the days from my delivery to my first period it is 30 days. So I am being told that I should at least wait until Tuesday morning before really starting to wonder where my period is...that some people's cycles do get longer after delivery. GREAT...that's just what I wanted to hear. That for the first time in my life I have a long cycle when I least want a long cycle. Keeping in my that every morning when I wake up and another day has gone by, I can't help but hope that I'm pregnant. So I take out another 6 dollar pregnancy test and pee...but so far they have all been negative. Each time looking at that stick and seeing negative but still not having my period start...talk about frustrating. I finally get the official go ahead but my cycle is so screwed up that I have no idea when to try. I've informed my husband that starting today we will just be trying every other day for a while. Luckily, he's completely ok with this. Why is this freakin happening? All I wanted was for my period to start this past week so we could start trying. I haven't asked for much that I've received...I'm starting to think that anything positive in my life is just too much and is never done.

Of course there is no material on this subject because most moms after delivery are happy with a delayed period because they have a bouncing baby to take care of. I have nothing aside from memories. So my only focus is my period and being able to ttc. I'm terrified that I skipped a period, which has never happened to me before. I'm terrified that I'm suddenly not ever going to ovulate again (I know I'm being overdramatic now but I can't help it). I could barely stand the idea of waiting four weeks to find out if we were successful. Now we're just tacking on the weeks of waiting. I'm so sick of waiting. The minute I stop waiting for one thing another thing causes me to wait. I'm no longer waiting for the results and the go ahead...now I'm waiting for my body. I'm sick of waiting on things that I have no control over...I can't force this period to come (although I've tried to think of ways).

Question that no one will be able to answer: Where the heck is my period?


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## iris0110

Well you are right, I can't tell you where your period is, but I can offer you a big (((HUG))). I am sorry everything seems to be going badly. Sometimes after a pregnancy it takes a while for you to get back to normal. Hormones fluctuate, and ovulation predictors aren't always correct. Not to mention stress can cause you to miss a period. I don't know when I will get my period back, after the D&C plus four months with a retained placenta it is hard to tell where I am. So I decided I would start taking prenatals again, and DH and I will just enjoy the act of attempting to concieve. I know how hard it is to want to be pregnant so badly, but your body just won't cooperate. I will keep my fingers crossed that you are pregnant, or if not that you enjoy trying, and concieve soon.







I will be sending lots of baby dust your way.


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## SweetTeach

Wilkers, I have 2 suggestions:

Get fresh ginger, grate it and put it with water in a pot. Boil it for a while to make ginger tea and drink 2 cups or so a day for 2-3 days. This should really bring your period on.

Go to cheap pregnancy tests so you can test as much as you want and not break the bank.

GOOD LUCK!!!


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## wilkers8

SweetTeach...thanks for the discount test link. I put an order in already!

My period finally started today. It's very light right now but it has started (sorry, to much info but I'm just so happy that it's finally here). My first period was on the one month anniversary and so I guess the second should only be ironic to start on the second month anniversary. This past week of waiting for this period to come was horrible. I hate the fact that I now seem to have a 30 day cycle. I never realized how lucky I was before with my short 25 day cycle. I'm a little nervous that it won't stick to 30 days for this next month so we will be aggressively trying. However, I'll take a 30 day cycle over not ovulating any day of the week. I was terrified that suddenly I would be skipping periods left and right. That thought was so overwhelming.

Regardless, we're now one day closer to starting to ttc. I know that I'm completely setting myself up to be disappointed. I'm putting all of my heart and energy into believing that it will happen for us in May. I should be pessimistic and convince myself there is no way possible that it will work in one month but the mere thought of having to go eight weeks versus four before knowing if we're pregnant is just too much to handle. I guess I will have to take this at one month intervals and deal with things from there but I can't help but hope that the odds will finally be in our favor. It is such a hard thing to know that the month I thought my baby would be introduced to the world is now the potential month we will find out if Connor has a sibling. Part of me wants to try to make any deal possible to insure that we are successful this month but I'm sure I will be using all of those deals to try to insure that this baby meets the world.

Unfortunately, due to this period drama, I didn't go see my god-daughter this weekend. I thought I had timed this so that I would be seeing her as I knew we were actively trying. Having my cycle be so much later threw a complete kink in that wonderful plan. You would think I would learn by now that I have no control over my life but I keep letting this fact smack me right in the face.

Question of the day: Does it ever really completely sink it...that you have no control over things that really matter?


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## ksjhwkr

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wilkers8*
Question of the day: Does it ever really completely sink it...that you have no control over things that really matter?

I don't know that it does ever completely sink in. This is something I was thinking about the other day. For me, I can grow a baby, I can deliver a baby, I can watch that baby grow to 8 months, but after that, I have no clue. It is really hard realizing that I have no control over the death of my daughter. I controled what she ate, when she ate, when she napped (well, I kind of controlled that one!), etc...but I couldn't control her death. It is a really hard pill to swollow...that we do everything we can to ensure our children's happiness and saftey, both in the womb and out, and when it comes right down to it, we have no control. I don't know if this is any more than random babblings of a grieving Mom, but we all understand those.

On a side note, I am SO glad you got your period. When Emma died, I was nursing her full-time and hadn't had a period since I got pregnant with her. I was really worried about my cycles returning. I felt SO strongly that we needed to have another child, I wanted to be pregnant, I wanted my arms filled again...and I was SO terrified that it wouldn't happen. I took Vitex, drank my red raspberry leaf tea, and charted my temperature. I miraculously ovulated and got pregnant the month after she died. It took that long for my milk to dry up. I pray that you will also get pregnant again easily. It always breaks my heart when I talk to other Momma's who have lost their only child and struggle to get pregnant again. I am sending lots of baby dust your way Momma!!!


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## wilkers8

Kim...I guess I have one more unattainable wish...I wish I could be as far along in another pregnancy as you are now.

Irony seems to completely sounding me. Not only did my first and second periods fall on the 17th of each subsequent month (Connor was born on 3/17), but if I have another 30 day cycle...I will be finding out whether I'm pregnant again the day before Connor's due date. Plus, I'll be ovulating during the time that I was hoping to deliver (I was hoping to go into labor two weeks early). I'm wondering what will happen on the 17th of next month!

I'm trying really hard not to think about what I thought would be happening during this month and next but it's so hard to avoid. At this time, I was expecting to be waddling around right now complaining about the heat while being so big, expecting to be making the final nursery decorations...actually I don't know what I would have been feeling like with my son during the last four weeks...I was only reading the "what to expect" as each week approached. However, I know that the last thing I thought I would be doing at this time was preparing to ttc. Anger is definitely creeping back in but I'm really trying to be positive and focus on conceiving a sibling.

I do have serious bouts of hysterical crying but now these are typically when I'm alone. I'll go into the nursery and just rock while staring at Connor's picture. Sometimes this brings me comfort and sometimes this brings me extreme sadness. There are times when all I can do is repeat "I want my son"...somehow thinking if I say it enough it will finally come true. Since receiving the results and my period returning, I am a lot calmer. I do feel like a ton of weight has been taken off of me. Although, I'm sure that when we put our dog down, that I'll regress again. However, I'm hoping that the possibility of being pregnant soon will keep me positive and out of my bed (well at least when we're not trying...this is my first joke since writing this journal, I guess this means I must be making progress).

After being bounced around from department to department, I was finally able to get ahold of someone at the hospital to arrange to pick up Connor's ashes. We had been holding off on this until we received the final results. Somehow it felt wrong to free him while we were still waiting on things. Now for the million dollar question...what do we do with his ashes? I've never been responsible for determining the final resting place for a human being before. To have this be my son adds so much pressure to make sure it's perfect, respectful and peaceful. I don't feel comfortable with anything regarding my house as we never intended on staying here long. We contemplated taking him to the island that we were married on but then I couldn't be there whenever I wanted. We contemplated putting him over our father-in-law's grave but that's out of state. We contemplated leaving him in our house, but I just feel like that's a little morbid. We contemplated going to the spot where my husband asked me to marry him (which is in town) and this seems to be the best idea. I guess we shouldn't do anything until I have the "this is right" feeling.

Question of the day: How do I begin to trust my feelings? They've been all over the place that most of the time...I'm not sure what feels right or should feel right.


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## SweetTeach

W: You remind me so much of how I used to be before I had ds. I used to be such a planner- almost obsessively- do this then, do that then, this should happen and then that...it went on and on. I thought if I planned alot, I could control alot. It's amazing how something that used to be such a strong part of my personality has now become a part of the background. I never thought I'd be able to be comfortable *just being* in the way that I am now. Not that I never plan, but it's less consuming for me than it used to be. When my pd was late last month, I started going through a similar thought pattern as you and then it got interuppted with "What will this accomplish? I can't force my body to do what I want it to do...it will come when it's supposed to." Of course, it came 2 days later (after some ginger tea ;-) )
Do you meditate or write in a journal (other than this one) to release some of your tension?

Quote:

I was only reading the "what to expect" as each week approached.
There are such better pregnancy books out there! You should look some up, probably on the pg board here. Those what to expect books drove me crazy- and I have a bunch of them cuz my friend works for the publishing co that puts them out.

Quote:

How do I begin to trust my feelings? They've been all over the place that most of the time...I'm not sure what feels right or should feel right.
What's amazing to me is that what people told me would happen is true. I am now 6 months past the loss of Nazir and I am _finally_ starting to feel like I have a more solid grip on reality and my sense of myself. I guess my answer to your question is that time will probably allow you to do that more.
ST


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## ksjhwkr

You know, I have often also thought about wishing you were as far along as I am now also. It _isn't_ fair, and it _isn't_ right, I wish there was some way I could tell you that it really would be alright, but I am still trying to figure that out myself.
I know that for me, every month there are 2 really hard days, the 15th (she was born on Dec. 15) and the 23 (she died on Aug. 23). Those are my worst days, those are the days that I just can't do anything, I can't function. Be gentle with yourself on the 17, and everyday for that matter.
I also cry uncontrollably. Sometimes the pain is so intense I think my chest is going to burst, or I feel like something is sitting on my chest. I will go through her clothes, I will look at her pictures, or I will just remember her and I just feel like I am going to die with her. It is so hard. It hurts so much. After Emma died someone told me (who had lost 2 babies herself), you hurt so much because you love so much. So, I guess that gives me a _little_ consolation...Emma was and is loved. Connor was and is loved. Our angels know that. They know how much we love and miss them. Sometimes I feel Emma so close, especially when I am losing it and dh is at work. I can just feel her with me, telling me it's ok. I just wish she were here for me to hold, and kiss and snuggle and nurse.
So, for your question of the day....How do you trust your feelings? I don't know. honestly, I wish I did, but I don't. We buried Emma in a state we didn't live in because we had lots of family there. We were living in Kansas when she died. Well, dh's family is from Utah (his folks live in KS though) and my folks and siblings live in Utah, so we buried her in Utah. After the funeral, I didn't think I could go back to Kansas. Well, 2 weeks later we did. But, only for 2 weeks. We packed up everything and moved to Utah. I was visiting her once a day, now it is once a week. When dh is done with graduate school in 2 years, we will move. I will be ok with that (i hope). I know that she will be well taken care of. I plan to plant a memorial garden where ever we land. It will be a place that I can go and sit, and contemplate and talk to Emma. That way, she is with me where ever I go. As for Connor's ashes, you will know what is right. Be patient with yourself (it's hard I know). Talk to your husband and listen to your hearts. These are decisions we never thought we'd have to make, but they are just staring you in the face huh? If you are the praying type, pray about it. If you are not, just meditate on it. Something will come to you, Connor will help you know what to do.
So, I am afraid this is just a bunch of random babbling....I hope it helps you in some way. I know it helps me just to write it out.







to you Mama...I am thinking of you often.


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## wilkers8

I've started to share this post with people that know me. At first I just shared with my four closest friends and of course my husband but all of them know most of what is written from our previous night's phone conversation. I've found that I just can't relate how I feel as well as if they were to just read this thread. So as I feel safe enough with a particular person, I've given them this link. I would like to share this with anyone that knows me, however, since we want to keep ttc and a possible second pregnancy a secret until we are past the first four months...I'll have to wait. I think that when we are further down the road, I might share this even with the people that have hurt/disappointed me. I don't think I could ever write a letter that would convey how I was feeling better than this journal. I know it would be after the fact and hopefully those friendships can be saved after they gain more knowledge into our new world. Not sure if this will be exposing myself for more pain but I guess I wouldn't really share this thread with anyone that I didn't have hope things could work out.

Now that some things have a little closure, I can drastically tell when I'm having an alright day and a bad day (note that I never have a good/happy day, just alright). On my bad days, I'm envious of the entire world. I look around and see everyone getting to raise a child and I get so angry and ask "why is that not us"! When I read the other post by muse regarding hurtful comments and the response she received indicating "evil-spirited and just don't want anyone else to be pregnant". I immediately thought "no kidding. Do you really expect her to be jumping up and down that you are pregnant?" I sure can't. I do have extreme guilt about it as two of my dearest and wonderful friends are pregnant. There is a big part of me that is happy for them...I want them to be happy and I want their babies to be safe and I never want them to feel what I'm feeling. However, there is still a part of me that wonders why everyone else can do this and not us. I've been tested and beaten the odds multiple times in my life. Up to the point, I've beaten the odds and was so proud of it. But where did that really get me...I'm still a mom with no living child. Aside from my marriage, I don't have much that I want to be proud of anymore....I didn't beat the odds when it mattered most. I realize that I didn't have any control over losing Connor but that doesn't change that I still feel like I failed him. I'm so sorry Connor. I'm so sorry that you won't see your first birthday. I'm so sorry that I never got to comfort you. I'm so sorry that I never got to see you smile. I'm so sorry that most of the people we care about didn't get to see you. I'm so sorry.

I'm definitely starting to get that feeling that people expect me to just be moving on now. That this shouldn't be consuming my every day...my every thought. That I should be able to see pregnant women. That I should be able to talk about their pregnancy. That I should be able to see a baby by now. Maybe I could do some of these things but most of me is just not interested. Occasionally, I will try to ask my two close friends how they are doing w/ their pregnancies (one at beginning and one is at the end) but I find myself feeling like I'm going to jinx them. In no way do they make me feel this way and both of them have completely understood but I hate that I've brought fears into their lives. I hate that I feel like I'm bringing them down during such a happy time for them. However, I am going to take the leap and definitely go see my god daughter this weekend. At this point, I think this will help me get over some of my jealous thoughts...at least I hope. I've never been much of a jealous person so having this feeling consume me is so depressing.

Question of the day: I knew that the anger stage would eventually go away but does the jealous stage ever leave?


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## HaveWool~Will Felt

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wilkers8*
Question of the day: I knew that the anger stage would eventually go away but does the jealous stage ever leave?

Wilkers-
I am not sure if it ever "goes away"...however I know that the extreme feeling of needing to look away when seeing others baby or hearing that another is pregnant (especially one close to me) does go away.
Make sense? Even though I have two living children...my first loss in 1996 not only was devasting but I also experienced a loss of a marriage. Of course nobody could tell me that would of happened or that someday I would look back and see that it all played out OK...years later, here I am experiencing another loss, this time much later in pregnancy (first loss was 19ish weeks and then Gracie at 37 weeks) and again I can't begin to think how in 8 years I will feel about the loss of my daughter. It is so different...I am sure there are many mamas that can relate to that.
I can tell you that ONLY with time and alot of work will any mama with this kind of loss begin to feel NOT angry or jealous.
I so miss my daughter and visiting her grave is beginning to bring some peace into my life. (Depends what day it is) People ask if we are thinking of having another baby...I want to scream and say that I don't want "another" baby I WANT MY DAUGHTER...but then I breath and see that their intentions are good. YES...I would love to concieve again...still waiting for period to arrive. I want to make sure that I am OK before I do that. *but then again will we ever be OK....???*

Love to you Wilkers....


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## wilkers8

We put our beloved dog, Mac, down yesterday afternoon. Although he was still wagging his tail and being as cuddly as usual, he was having a hard time breathing. We just couldn't watch him be in discomfort nor did we want to let him get to the point of suffering (not eating, etc). Knowing we gave him so much, made this easier for me. To be honest, I felt like I had a chance to send Connor a message. So I told Mac "I'm sorry that you can't stay here with us longer but know that mommy loves you so much. Please find Connor and let him know how much he is loved & missed." Afterwards, there was a feeling of weight lifted but this morning was a hard knowing there is nothing in the house to take care of now.

So I'm considering that yesterday is the last day of our crappy year. That starting today our lives will start to improve again. I know we won't stop being sad or stop dealing with our grief but I want today to be when we start looking forward to things again. Not sure if this is really possible but I want to believe it is...so that's what I'm going to do.

So as my period is over and the trying to conceive begins, I've started making promises each night before going to sleep. I guess I was more making deals...I promise x then you must make y happen. So these are the promises that I have been making:
* I promise to never forget Connor and to always acknowledge his existence to others
* I promise to enjoy/savor every single minute of any future pregnancy
* I promise to never neglect or take advantage of my husband or any future sibling of Connor's
* I promise to that all of my future children will know of their big brother
* I promise to try to accept that I have no real control over the future

Here's what I'm asking for to happen:
* Please let us be able to conceive this cycle
* Please let our next child grow old with us

I'm willing to make even more promises for just these two requests. We've had so much taken from us this year...is asking for these two things really that much to ask for. I don't know if I believe I'm talking to someone who can grant these requests (pretty agnostic right now) but I think about the statement "have to ask for what you want". The thing I want most (that's realistic)...is a sibling for my baby boy. Although, I guess I'm not sticking with my last promise...trying to make deals in order for something to happen is still my way of trying to take control of my life (but I did put "TRY" in that promise).

Question of the day: Am I nuts for attempting to make deals?


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## ksjhwkr

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wilkers8*
Question of the day: Am I nuts for attempting to make deals?

I make deals everyday..you're not nuts, you're a grieving Mom. It's normal. My latest deal is that I promise not to complain about this pregnancy and how the baby is born (vaginal or c-section) if I can just raise him/her and have this child bury ME! We'll see if it works though.

I am sorry about your dog, but I think that it is very great that you were able to have some time with him. You were able to send your love to Connor and now he has someone to play with


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## berkeleyp

I'm not sure if any of you are still around - I noticed that the last post was over a month ago but I hope you are.

Wilkers - I am so sorry for your loss and I want you to know that your posts and dialogue has been great for me to read.

I gave birth to a beautiful baby girl - Julianna less than two weeks ago (May 10). Her heart stopped beating in the last five minutes of pushing. I didn't know that she was dead when she came out. When you asked about the last time we felt joy - that moment when she emerged and I exclaimed "Its a girl" was the most joyful of my life - followed closely by the worst nightmare I can imagine - my midwives gave her CPR immediately (I was at home) and my sister called 911. My dh went with Julianna to the hospital right away while I stayed home to be stitched and cleaned before joining them. She was officially pronounced dead more than an hour after her birth. The ER doctors worked to bring her back for nearly an hour. My husband said that they were at a loss for why she left us. She was a healthy 7lb. 13 oz., born on her due date with a soft head of hair and a plump little body. The hospital refused to do an autopsy because the pathologist said he was pretty confident that it would not give us any answers. We could have had her sent to the Yale medical center for an autopsy but I'm glad we didn't. My midwife told me that Yale would only do it because they use it as a lab for students and are not very respectful. She got to stay near us and we got to hold her a few days later (after she was embalmed).
The first week was like a daze. I was never alone for a minute. My mother, father, sister, brother, MIL, Brothers in law, and friends were at my house all the time. It was really amazing to have so much support but now after the funeral (this past Saturday) everyone else has to return to their normal lives. I am totally alone in my house for the first time right now and so grateful that I could share my experience with such wonderful people online. I guess I just want to tell my story over and over again and everyone here already knows or doesn't want to hear again.

Right now I feel so confused, sad, angry, lost. I feel like everything changed and yet nothing changed - I never had a baby to care for and I still don't -

WIlkers - I know exactly what you mean about the double edged sword of opportunity and loss. My in laws are going to Europe in July and have invited us to go with them now that we don't have a baby. We have accepted their offer and i have spent a few happy (or at least distracted) hours planning our trip. I'm excited to go and at the same time so sad and guilty that I am able to go because of my loss.

I know that i have only just begun my grieving but I feel like i'm already anxious to be done with it and move on with my life. I keep wishing I could just fast-forward a year or two to some fantasized reality where I'm happy (new baby in arms). I really want to get pregnant again but am scared that i won't be emotionally OK. I'm really scared to have a whole 9 months knowing that all can be fine only to have it all stolen from me at the last moment.

Wow, I really wrote a lot. Its been therapeautic for me. Thank you so much for listening.


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## berkeleyp

After I posted I noticed that there were two more pages of posts that i hadn't read. I'm sorry - i'll go catch up right now. I guess that there have been lots of posts in the last month.


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## SweetTeach

Wilkers,
I'm so sorry to hear that you had to put Mac down. What a tough couple of months!
Hmph, I don't know if you're nuts for making deals, but I feel nuts lots of times and I'm not making deals. I feel nuts when I listen to some of my thought patterns and responses to regular life situations. Does that make you feel better?
If you make deals and that makes you feel better, then go ahead and act like you're in Vegas girl. Who cares? Whatever gets you through...

Berkleyp, I am so sorry to hear about your loss of Julianna. What a sad, sad time this is for you. I'm sorry that you have had to find us, but I'm glad you're here. You will find a lot of strength and comfort from the women on this board.
ST


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## wilkers8

SweetTeach...Vegas it is









berkeleyp...First, I'm so very sorry for your loss. Julianna is such a beautiful name. When I first started posting, I had to get feelings out. I needed to scream everything to the world. I guess this was my way of trying to make sense of my emotions and the life that is now our reality. This is still the primary reason that I've continued to write my story. I've found that I can visibly see my progress over the posts. However, reading that this thread has been great for you&#8230;brings a new motivation for me. I hardly view myself as someone that could help another...I viewed Ms. Mom and all of the wonderful women who have posted on this thread to be more knowledgeable. Only my role has changed...I'm no longer the person within the first few weeks of intense grief. Knowing that this thread was useful to you during this extremely tough time makes me even more thankful that Connor is a part of my life. That his story helps others. You posted something that really hit home with me...fast-forward a year or two to some fantasized reality where I'm happy...

Fast-forward...I remember having a conversation with an old friend of mine just as I entered college. I told him that I wish I knew what the future held in store for me. I told him that all I knew was that I wanted to major in Computer Science but where I would be or what would happen to/for me. (Note: I now haven't talked to this person in over 6 years) Then 3.5 years later (yes, I graduated college quickly...couldn't afford to stay), I had a similar conversation with a different close friend, this one is still a good friend. I had reached my goals of graduating with a degree in Computer Science but I had no idea what goal was next. I had never planned my life past college. I had no idea what I wanted but I did know that family was no where close on that list. Slowly over that past five and a half years, I discovered what my goals were. Originally, I wanted to be successful in my career. I would definitely say that my career has been successful and doesn't look to be taking a turn for the worse even though my heart is not there yet (financially, continues to be a challenge, valued, etc). Then, I wanted to have a successful marriage. I didn't realize that my biggest goal would be the one that proved how successful my marriage is...wanting a baby. I was thinking back and I got exactly what I wanted...I got Connor...I had a baby. So this time around my goal is to have a baby to raise. I wish I could fast-forward my life to find out if it happens just like I wished during the previous conversations to find out if I would succeed. However, I know this is impossible and only time will tell me. For the first time, I'm scared of not meeting a goal. I'm scared of finding out this goal I won't succeed at. So maybe I'm ok with letting time tell me...what a lesson to learn.

Question of the day: What's the biggest lesson you've learned? I realize that this probably changes often as it has with me.


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## gossamer

WIlkers, I started thinking about your question of the day and realized, I am not sure I learned a lesson. I LEarned a lot of things, like how to realate to grieving people, how much I love my daughter, how blessed I am to have my faith and my husband. But I am not sure I learned a lesson. I do not like it when people tell me my daughter's purpose in life was ..... WHatever, my baby girl was so small, and so innocent and pure, she did not have a job to do. SHe did not come to this earth to teach me a lesson. Her only responsibility was to be loved by her family. Does anybody else think they have learned a lesson? Am I just deluding myself?

Berkleyp, I am so sorry for the death of Julianna. Please know that you are welcome here and your emotions are too. We have all laughed and cried and hollered together. Feel free to add to this thread, or start your own. We are here for you.
GOssamer


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## HaveWool~Will Felt

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wilkers8*
Question of the day: What's the biggest lesson you've learned? I realize that this probably changes often as it has with me.

Big Sigh...

The biggest lesson I have learned is that regardless of the fact/reality that it is my body that has given my baby a home for 9 months...my baby was never MINE.
Not sure if that makes sense to anyone.
My womb was her home, her safe place, her haven, her EVERYTHING...BUT she wasn't mine to keep and that sometimes pushes me to the edge. The kind of edge that I have to be talked down from.

The past few days have been very difficult. I sit here typing and I can feel myself shake from time to time. I go in and out of extreme pain from deep sorrow to anger rather quickly. My breasts continue to ache horribly. My pre pregnancy clothes still don't fit.

To top it all off, my in laws arrived here today from out of state. My mother in law asked how I was doing while I was making dinner for everyone. I told her it depends on the day, sometimes even the minute. Her comment was "You know Jackie, I lost three babies, two of which were born still, and you WILL get over it". Good thing I know how to pause when aggitated. She went on to say that I just need to get busy, take up needlepoint or volunteer somewhere. At this point...I didn't pause...I belted out that I refuse to shove down my grief and "act as if " nothing has happened. What has happened is that my daughter died. Her response was that time heals all wounds. I wanted to say screw your time theory...time will never heal this wound. So...after dinner she asked if I was still pumping my breast milk. I told her no. She said "Well...I would be very concerned about recieving another mother's milk...you just never know these days what one does to their body and you know all that effects breastmilk." Does she actually think that what comes out her mouth is HELPFUL??? I responded with "Well, that is the difference between you & I...I guess I am just a bit more selfless than you. Donating my breast milk was nothing but selfless, healing and LOVING. If you can't see that...then I am finished with this conversation." I walked out and they left for their hotel. Thank God they don't stay with us when they come to town. I might have to slit my throat.

I am tired. Tired of feeling like this. Tired of STUPID, IGNORANT people like my mother in law. Tired of life without my daughter. The fact is that none of it is going to change...life will go on. Even when I don't want it to.


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## HaveWool~Will Felt

Quote:


Originally Posted by *berkeleyp*
I gave birth to a beautiful baby girl - Julianna less than two weeks ago (May 10). Her heart stopped beating in the last five minutes of pushing. I didn't know that she was dead when she came out.

Berkeleyp...I am so very sorry for the loss of Julianna. When I read your post I cried and cried...I am sorry honey. I too want to invite you to keep coming back here. Share all you need to...even if you think it doesn't make sense.
I am so sad that another mama has had to find a forum like this one...I am glad that you found *this* forum. I am new here also...welcome. Please come back soon.

Love to you,
Jackie


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## ksjhwkr

Oh Jackie,

I just want to give you the biggest hugs. It is so hard when people are SO insensitive and say the STUPIDEST things! My sister told me 2 weeks after Emma had died, that I needed to get out of my house and get on with my life. EXCUSE ME?!?!

I think it is fabulous you donated your breastmilk. I wish I could have. I take zoloft, so I knew I wasn't a candidate, but I wanted to nurse other babies so badly. It hurts so much, the physical pain of full full breasts.

I am so tired of hurting, so tired of the pain, so tired of the worrying about this new baby, so tired of it all. I understand your weariness. It is just so hard, and not many people understand it. I hate that life goes on. The day that Emma was gone longer than she was here, that was horrible. The fact that August 23 will be here before we know it and she will have been gone 1 year, that is horrible. I hate that life continues without her. I hate that people assume this is my first child, I just hate it all.








s to you sweet Momma...and screw that time heals all wounds crap...it's not true. Time makes it a *little* easier to bear, but these are wounds that run SO deep, they will NEVER heal.


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## DarkHorseMama

Hugs, berkeleyp, I am very sorry for your loss. There is another woman on these boards who goes by the user name of XM (for Xiola's Mom) who lost her child in virtually the same way as you. Everything was fine, but the little girl died in the late pushing stages, as I understand. I think you made the right decision, personally, to not have the autopsy and it likely would not have told you anything that would give you peace.

Perhaps she and Xiola just did not handle the stressors of birth. You may never know the "true" reason, but I do hope that you find some peace. I am sure that there will be some behind-the-back speaking about your homebirth, but there doesn't appear to be anything that occurred that would have been "better" in a hospital.

Big hugs, mama. I know your arms are empty now and I do grieve with you.


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## SweetTeach

DarkHorseMama,

Quote:

Perhaps she and Xiola just did not handle the stressors of birth.
This statement rubs me the wrong way and I want to respond to it. It reminds me of when people told me that something must have "been wrong" with ds when he was born still. It just didn't make me feel good. Julianna's mom may not feel this way, but as another stillbirth mama, I will just tell you that suggestions that our children were not strong enough (good enough, healthy enough...) don't make us feel better about the fact that they're dead.
I know, from the spirit of the rest of your post, that you did not have this intended effect, but I just wanted to let you know that it could be an unintended effect.

ST


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## DarkHorseMama

Thanks for your hard-earned insight, SweetTeach. My intent certainly wasn't to imply that there was anything wrong, _per se_, but that something did not go right. Does that make sense?














The gist of my post is that sometimes there simply are no answers.


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## SweetTeach

DarkHorseMama,
Thanks for responding. I *think* I understand what you're saying and I know that you are coming from a good place. I guess what confuses me is that it's obvious something went wrong, you know? But nonetheless, no need to beat a dead horse...ugh, bad pun. Forgive me if I'm being over-sensitive, it's called PMS!


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## wilkers8

Thanks for the input...we all deal with so many things on not just a daily basis but an hourly basis. It's a wonder we get through the day at all.

So we took the plunge...we went and picked up a puppy. We rescued this puppy from the same place we rescued Mac. We debated on whether a puppy was a good idea but we both needed something in this house and we have quite a bit of free time. It was so nice to have control over not waiting in order to make this happen. Unlike a sibling for Connor that will take 40 plus weeks, we could have a puppy now. So Danu, is now part of our family. She is absolutely adorable 9 week old puppy. We do miss Mac but overall this was such a healing decision. To actually have something to take care of...what a great feeling.

Now...if we could only be successful this month with ttc, I might actually start to believe that things are starting to take a turn for the better now. I might even be willing to deal with the rest of 2004 instead of just wishing it was 2005 now. Although, having to watch a puppy might hinder the ability to ttc but we'll see. I'm pretty much not willing to allow anything to get in the way of ttc. My husband keeps begging to go into the hot tub but I'm refusing. I want the best odds possible for this to work this month. I figure as quickly as everything went to complete sh*t, that things could turn around that quickly. Well, I can hope! After getting Danu, I now have no doubts that getting pregnant is a good idea. I've read all the warnings on waiting longer but for us, the decision to ttc now is the right one. Not to say I won't be a worried mess but I would be that regardless of when it happens.

Want to hear something really sad...I woke up every two hours last night to take the puppy outside. I didn't mind this at all. I kept thinking "this would be how often I would be getting up if Connor was with us"...so I didn't dare complain. Instead, I think that this puppy just makes me feel like more of a mom. I'm sure those of you who don't have pets probably think I'm nuts. However, being able to hold this puppy in my arms makes me feel so needed.

Question of the day: For those of you who don't have other living children, what makes you feel needed?


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## berkeleyp

Thank you all so much for welcoming me to this thread and this board. I felt so good yesterday when i read all your replies. It felt like magic that I typed something online - and people responded. I'm new to online forums as you might guess. It feels like the perfect combination of journal writing, reading, and a support group - I already love it here. Thank you again.

Jackieg213- I'm so sorry that you've been in a bad place and sorry that your MIL is so insensitive. I know this won't make her comments sting any less but when i read your post - I couldn't help pitying her own lack of open grieving. She must have a lot of pent up emotions eating away at her.

Wilkers8 - I'm glad to hear that you have found some hope and happiness amidst all of your pain. Your puppy sounds adorable - I'm sending you positive vibes for your ttcing. I'm envious of your confidence to ttc and be pregnant again. I can't even make love yet but i'm so scared to be pregnant again and at the same time can't wait.

As to your questions -
What is the biggest lesson i've learned? - i don't know that i'd call it a lesson but i believe that Julianna's life and death had a purpose in my life. My husband and I both feel strongly that fate or God/dess has given us this tragedy in order that we may change and grow. I feel that i've learned that life is much more fragile than i've acknowledged and that pregnancy and my own life is not to be taken for granted. Though right now, i'm proud of myself if i make my own meal or clean my kitchen - i feel a renewed desire to live life to its fullest and want to make the most of my time here. The support and love that has been poured on me in the last few weeks has also made me realize how lucky I am and made me feel that I need to spend more time cultivating the good relationships that I have. I hope that this sentiment doesn't wear off as time goes by.
I've also learned how strong I am. I'm d*mn proud of my body for carrying my baby to term and surviving a somewhat long labor without medication. We were both in perfect health as far as I know and i'm proud of my daughter's size - 7lbs. 13 oz (the exact same weight that I was at birth) 20 inches long. Part of me even looks forward to a time when i can feel proud of surviving this tragedy - I hope that the saying "Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger" is true.
What makes me feel needed? - Right now I feel like eveyone is taking care of me and not the other way around but I know that many people need me around and need me to come out of this intact because we love eachother. I guess needed isn't really what I feel but I've never really been needed by another being besides Julianna. My husband needs me but not in the same way that a child or a pet does. What keeps me going is the knowledge that life will go on because of the love that I share with so many wonderful friends and family members.

On a more practical note - Jackieg213 - you mentioned that you were donating your milk. I too have been pumping and freezing my milk to donate to a milk bank but haven't sent any yet. You mentioned that milk banks suck and that you donated to a local family - how did you find them? I would much prefer to send my milk to a local babe and not bother with the milk bank - do you have any ideas on finding someone in need? Also, how often did you pump? Right now i pump both breasts 15 minutes every 3-4 hours, less often at night but I want to cut that down to perhaps only pumping 2 or 3 times a day. Do you have any idea how to accomplish this. I really want to continue pumping but every 3 hours is too much to handle for much longer. It's emotionally and physically draining not to mention inconvenient. Any thoughts would be much appreciated.


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## ksjhwkr

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wilkers8*
Question of the day: For those of you who don't have other living children, what makes you feel needed?

My sweet husband needs me. The night that Emma died, he grabbed me by the shoulders, looked me in the eye and said, "Don't you dare leave me here. Don't leave me here alone, promise??" I promised him. That promise keeps me going.


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## Mamid

I wasn't even told about milk donation when I miscarried. Hell, I was told I wouldn't have any milk....

the day after I get out of the hospital, my breasts swelled. Fully. Painfully. And I leaked for 4 months and could hand express for up to a year.


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## HaveWool~Will Felt

Quote:


Originally Posted by *berkeleyp*
On a more practical note - Jackieg213 - you mentioned that you were donating your milk. I too have been pumping and freezing my milk to donate to a milk bank but haven't sent any yet. You mentioned that milk banks suck and that you donated to a local family - how did you find them? I would much prefer to send my milk to a local babe and not bother with the milk bank - do you have any ideas on finding someone in need? Also, how often did you pump? Right now i pump both breasts 15 minutes every 3-4 hours, less often at night but I want to cut that down to perhaps only pumping 2 or 3 times a day. Do you have any idea how to accomplish this. I really want to continue pumping but every 3 hours is too much to handle for much longer. It's emotionally and physically draining not to mention inconvenient. Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

I pumped every 2-3 hours during the day, my last pump of the day would be 11pm and then I would start over on the new day at 3am. Doing the same schedule. You could start going every 4-5 hours during the day and sleep for 6 hours then pump. That makes the schedule change more tolerable to your breast. Going any longer than 5 hours during the day tends to be painful.
I work with local lay midwives. They always have new moms that may need some help with breastfeeding and need a few ounces here and there. However I got hooked up with 2 mamas that had babes in the NICU. That being where my daughter died (NICU), it felt so good to give to those premature babes.
I would call some local midwives, tell them your story and see if the would like to work with you around donating your milk.
I can tell you that donating my milk has brought me more joy, acceptance, surrender and appreciation than anything I have done since my daughter died. It truly has been the best thing I have done for ME...hope that helps berkeley!!!








Any questions please e-mail me and I would be happy to help out. Not sure where you live...I am in Oregon...I know that there are lay midwives everywhere...do a search for homebirth in your area. That will definitly bring up some resources for you. With it being a midwife that you may not have worked with, they may want to see recent labs of HIV, Hep C.

Lot of love to you all..









[email protected]

~Jackie


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## wilkers8

ksjhwkr...I think that is such a beautiful promise to make. It brought tears to me eyes. Because even though we didn't verbally making that promise, I know exactly how important that having my husband with me is and vice versa.

berkeleyp...envious of confidence. That's actually a statement that I was positive I would never hear again. My confidence in this world is completely gone. I guess I don't view are willingness to ttc as confidence that things will be ok, but more as no choice but to go forward. I would go back in the past in a heartbeat if it was possible but it's just not. I'm coming to terms with the fact that I can't hold on to the past but can only look forward to the future while remembering what's important from the past.

Tomorrow will be ten weeks since we said goodbye to Connor. I am still in shock at how much my life is completely different in just ten weeks. Instead of preparing for a new baby to turn our lives upside down, we've said goodbye to our son...which turned our lives upside down. Instead of introducing Mac to a new baby, we're introducing ourselves to a new puppy. Instead of being so overwhelmingly happy with a new baby, we're so overwhelmingly sad with the loss of Connor. Instead of thinking about what birth control protection we'll start using soon, we're thinking about how to ensure we get pregnant.

It's funny. I felt so alone when everyone was calling to say they were sorry. In my mind and heart, I knew they just really couldn't understand how I was feeling. That despite their efforts, I was alone. However, I now realize that having people in my life regardless if they understand means I wasn't alone because now that the support has completely tapered off, I feel more alone than ever. I look at my phone numbers and go to call an old friend (maybe they even sent a card at first) but it just doesn't seem right. What am I going to say...gee, hasn't all the rain sucked. The only people I can bring myself to pick up the phone and call are the ones that have continued to support me this entire time. That list is very small. Logically it makes sense that the list is small as it's absolutely exhausting to support me nowadays. I know how exhausted I am. However, I can't help feel like I should just shy away from the world and it would be easier for everyone involved.

On the positive side, being by myself in the house is no longer such a painful experience. I've stopped automatically rubbing my stomach to only remember there is no longer a baby inside. I've stopped making sure my feet are elevated. I've stopped forcing myself to make sure I'm lying on my side if sleeping. I've stopped waking up in terror from realizing that I didn't feel a kick...there's no kick to feel. I've stopped crying or swearing at the tv upon a baby being displayed (although still don't dare go near the baby story show). I guess these are all signs that I'm making progress.

Making progress...my friend said she could hear something different in the tone of my voice the other day. I was talking about the puppy and actually laughed. I laughed...not at someone else's pain...not out of sheer emotional exhaustion...not out of some sarcastic joke...but just because I was talking about something positive for the first time in such a long time. However, I go right back in a sad state within minutes for no real reason at all. Now that I can actually have some happier moments, I need to start dealing with feeling like a ping pong ball. I always disliked ping pong, so feeling like I'm going back and forth will not be an easier thing to adjust to...let alone, accept.

Question of the day: What kinds of reactions should I expect from people as my emotions begin bouncing back and forth? Honestly ten weeks ago, if I was talking to someone who went from being ok to actually laughing to crying hysterically within a matter of minutes...I would probably think they need some serious help.


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## robugmum

All I can say or do right now is send you all a great big ((((((((((((hug))))))))))). I have read this entire thread and I feel so blessed that all you brave brave women have shared your stories with me. wilkers8, thank you so much. I will never forget you or Connor. I wish you peace and happiness and, yes, lots and lots of luck.


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## berkeleyp

Wilkers- I guess confidence wasn't really what I meant. I think courage is perhaps a better word. I think it takes a lot of courage to begin a pregnancy after a stillbirth. It takes courage to look forward rather than back, though I realize that what is behind us is never far from our thoughts or our hearts.


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## Mindful Mom

Dear Wilkers8 --

I'm so sorry for your loss and I'm in awe of the courage, openness, and beauty you've exhibited in this thread. I occasionally come to this forum because I miscarried my first pregnancy. I would never compare my loss with yours -- I never felt my precious babe move inside me and I didn't have to go through the agony of delivering a stillborn child. I did, however, have to deal with a miscarriage and D&C after seeing what looked like a perfectly normal baby on ultrasound only a week earlier. One of the hardest things for me to deal with was that the loss was attributed to low progesterone levels -- so I felt like a failure with a defective body and that I caused my baby to die by being inadequate. It was an awful time.

People were generally kind and understanding. Some didn't get it, and some people said really stupid things -- mostly out of ignorance. Other people said just the right things. One thing has always stuck out in my mind though was something a friend said to me -- she'd had 5 miscarriages (and 3 living children) and she told me that after I did have a baby that I'd look at that baby and realize that I woudn't have him/her if I hadn't lost the first one. She didn't say it to diminish my loss, she was just sharing her own experience. I was reading this thread and thought you might need to hear the same thing. A new baby will never take the place of the baby you lost, but you might eventually come to see that some of Connor's beauty touches you through a new baby -- because that particular baby you have would not have come into your life if you hadn't lost Connor.

I hope I've actually expressed what I meant to -- I've been sitting here for 30 minutes trying to figure out how to say what I'm thinking!! You have my prayers for a big fat positive, a happy and healthy pregnancy, and a beautiful child.


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## iris0110

Mindful Mom, I have heard that said before by other mothers. My MIL says it sometimes. She had a miscariage in between BIL and Dh. So if she never would have lost that baby then I wouldn't have Dh. It is hard to look at it that way from this side of a stillbirth though. I am sure things will look differently to me after this baby I want to conceive so badly is born. I would do anything to go back in time and save my baby girl. I would make deals with dieties and trade my own life, but that isn't possible, and I know it isn't. So I have to look to the future. And I have to take a comfort in knowing that I will never take my children for granted. Each one will be a miracle to me because I have seen that not every child gets to be born and grow up. And I will be excited to get to know my next child and I will always remember that were it not for Arawyn I would not have that child.

Wilkers8, I am there with you right now. I am also desperately wanting to concieve, but still seeing the irony of the situation. I should be holding a one month old baby right now not planning for a pregnancy, and sometimes that makes me really angry. But I am hopeful for the future, and I am trying to build up my courage for the next 9+ months. I am also glad that I wont be making this journey alone. Knowing that you and probably Sweet Teach will be walking along with me really helps alot. It will be nice to have some one to share with. So I am sending lots of Baby Dust your way, and I hope that we will all concieve healthy babies really soon.







:


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## wilkers8

iris0110...it's so different for me to be wishing and hoping that you both get pregnant at the same time. I found so much comfort in being able to discuss my 27 weeks with my friend and to think that I wouldn't have someone to share that with this time around is a little scary. My one friend is about 6 weeks pregnant now but it's not the same now to go through a pregnancy as all of you are so aware. I won't have the same concerns/thoughts as I did the first time or with anyone that has never experienced a loss. So although we can discuss bulging bellies...we can't discuss the fear of losing another child. Unfortunately, that's that topic that will probably consume me.

Mindful_Mom...you did get across what you were trying to say. Actually, one of my four closest friends said something very similar. As we were discussing whether or not I would actually be able to get pregnant this month, she said "I hope so because then it would help give some meaning to losing Connor. I asked her what she meant and she said that had we not lost Connor in March then there would be no way for a baby conceived in May any other way. She believes that each egg we ovulate is an individual child and you only get one try at that particular possible child. She said that if we got pregnant in May that it would help explain why Connor left so soon. Not that it would make anything better but that otherwise this particular possible child could never be with us. You're right, this is hard to explain and make sure it sounds right.

robugmum...thank you for the well wishes.

berkeleyp...I actually didn't mind hearing the word confidence. I sorta felt like that maybe who I was before is not completely gone. I used to have a ton of confidence in myself. I guess I'm hoping I still do...somewhere inside.

I received this really sweet PM thanking me for sharing this story. Not because she could relate but because it put her unexpected pregnancy in a new light. Up until reading these posts, she had been resenting her baby. Being able to hear how Connor has impacted other people's lives is such a wonderful feeling. I always knew how much of an impact he had on my husband and I but one of the things I was sad about was that he wouldn't be able to impact the world. I guess I was wrong. I'm so happy that I was wrong.

I've been taking those ovulation predictor tests. I know the large window of 25 days to 30 days cycle but I was hoping for these tests to pin point ovulation. However, they just don't seem to be working the way I would expect them to. I started taking them a number of days ago (before even the 25 day window should start taking them) and the line has actually started to increase a little but never as dark as the control line and has since become even lighter. I would have expected the line to just keep getting darker until my LH surge. Regardless, my husband and I have been on an every other day routine right now...just in case. But I wanted to increase a little on the day before and of ovulation. I'm also watching my cervical mucus (sorry, TMI) but I always have a hard time with that. I am going to keep taking the tests to see if I finally get the surge to show but we'll just keep on this routine for the big possible window length. My husband doesn't mind...well, except for the fact that I won't let him in the hot tub until after the window closes (21st through 4th...such a large window when you have no idea what your cycle is doing).

I've talked about the people that haven't called but I want to give kudos to the individuals that I completely didn't expect support from and have been wonderful. There's a guy that I work with that I spent most of last year as his project manager, however, he left the project earlier and left the project in a bad situation. So although there were no bad feelings, but he was probably the person I thought would be supportive out of the number of resources I managed on this project. However, he got the guys together and sent a wonderful basket of wines/cheeses, etc. Since then he contacts me via email or IM every couple of weeks just to ask how I'm doing. I finally asked him today if he knew someone close that had experienced this type of loss...he said no and asked why. I told him that I was just surprised at how well he was doing at supporting me with this. That most people have sympathy but expect me to just be fine and back to normal in a few weeks. I gained a new level of respect for this co-worker. I want to start appreciating this new gain.

Question of the day: How many new/old people in your life did you gain a new respect for?


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## berkeleyp

I really like the thought that my future children might not be the same were I not to have lost Julianna. I hope to be pregnant a year from now and certainly wouldn't have been if she had lived. Before those children are born and I get to know them - it is hard to find consolation in this idea but I hope that it will help in the future. I have to believe that things happen for a reason and this is just one more possible good outcome from such a terrible loss.

Yesterday I went out to Home Depot with dh to pick out lighting fixtures for our new house that he is renovating. I actually had fun and felt excited about our new home! but then toward the end of the trip, I started to feel overwhelmed by sadness again - I broke down in the car. I just felt angry, like I shouldn't be able to go to Home Depot - I should be sleep deprived and staying home with a less than three week old baby. Everything just feels wrong. Even when I don't feel overwhelmed by thoughts of Julianna - of her beautiful little body - of my pregnancy - of my labor - I still feel just wrong. Sometimes my mind manages to push my sad thoughts to some hidden place and I _almost_ forget that I have a daughter - I feel like i'm in some strange reality where I just feel confused and empty not to mention fat and lactating but can't remember why. Does anyone else feel like this ever?
Today - I haven't cried yet and am planning to go to the mall with my sister and then go visit a friend in the hospital (he has pancreatitis) - I feel guilty that I haven't spent much time thinking of Julianna but I simply can't cry all the time - I can't let myself. Tears are lurking just behind my eyelids all the time but I just can't let them all out or I'd dry out like a prune. I just wish that I could feel better - I just want this to end and I know that it won't and can only pray that it gets better little by little.

On a more positive note - I wrote yesterday about courage and then was suprised to receive a very fitting gift. I was a long term sub for a music teacher and my women's choir students sent me a flower basket accompanied by an angel figurine - the angel they sent me was "courage" according to the little card that came with her. How ironic! The more I live, the more I realize that coincidences have meaning and perhaps aren't just coincidences. This gives me some faith in higher powers or fate or whatever.

As to the question of the day - I have a newfound love and respect for many of the people in my life - especially my BIL, mother, sister, bestfriend and another childhood friend. I want to give special props to my childhood friend who I knew from the time I was born (and even before). We lost touch through college and only recently have rekindled our friendship. She is one of the most amazing friends I could ever have. She has a 1 1/2 year old daughter and was so excited that I was going to have a baby too. None of our other friends have children. She lives halfway across the country and flew into CT for the weekend that my daughter was buried. I couldn't believe it but was so comforted by her presense. I got to spend some time with her alone and it was amazing. She was the only person who asked me about the pregnancy and about the birth. We talked about things that most new mothers would want to talk about rather than just my loss. In this way, she is one of the only people in my life that acknowledges my motherhood and not just my mourning. Other people want to either distract me with trivial things or talk about my loss. I'm so glad that she is in my life.

Then there are the people that drive me nuts. My SIL just had a baby two weeks before I did. We shared our whole pregnancies and looked forward to raising our babes together. I have a really difficult time seeing her and especially seeing her with her son. I have held him several times and want to love him but I just can't right now. She was initially scared that dh and I would withdraw from her family and we have tried really hard not to but she makes it so difficult. She clearly acknowledges that we might have trouble seeing her with her son but when are with them all she talks about is her baby - she complains about how much he wants to nurse and tells me how she can't wait to start pumping and only nurse him at night (This drives me nuts obviously as I long so much to have a baby and not a machine at my own breast) when she's not complaining, she's talking about his christening. It's hard enough for me to be around the two of them without her obnoxious conversations. I guess she assumes that since I dont' break down crying at the sight of her that I must be perfectly fine. She's crazy. We're going to try to avoid them a bit more than we have been. Last time we saw them I had a major breakdown as soon as we left and dh suggested we don't have to go see them anymore for awhile.

WEll, I feel like I could write forever but my sister is waiting to take me to the mall so I better go.

Until Tomorrow hugs to you all.


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## ksjhwkr

wilkers8 Question of the day: How many new/old people in your life did you gain a new respect for?[/QUOTE said:


> I have gained new respect for my in-laws. They are such an amazing support to us. They have and continue to, go above and beyond to give us whatever we need.
> I also have gained a new respect for every parent who has had to bury their child/children. Jeremy and I will walk the cemetery and as we do, we see parents who have had to bury multiple children. I just don't know how they do it. It has killed me to bury one...I can't imagine, and pray I never can.
> I have found also that people that were my friends, and refuse to talk to me about Emma, I just need to let go of. I need to be surrounded only by people who will talk to me about her, and will let me talk about her. She is such a huge part of my life, she is my sweet angel.
> 
> Dang, I miss her
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Sometimes it just hits me so hard. I'll be doing ok, then BOOM! I'll hit a wall and will just crawl inside myself and miss her. One thing I am finding really hard is crying when I am so big and pregnant. I am measuring 46cm (at 36 weeks), so my uterus is WAY up in my lungs. The other night I was laying in bed just bawling. Well, I had to sit up to blow my nose and I couldn't breathe when I did that. Sometimes it just pours. *sigh*


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## wilkers8

ksjhwkr...I too have a ton of respect for my in-laws. Since day one they have made sure to call Connor by name...made sure that the extended family calls Connor by name...made sure to recognize us as parents. I didn't think it was possible to be more thankful for his side of the family but this definitely has been the case.

I hate what losing Connor has done to my life. My friendships are strained. My mental health is strained. My ability to believe in anything is strained. My confidence in things working out is strained. Everything in my life is strained. No wonder, I'm a horrible wreck of an individual. It's impossible for me to be happy for other people...it's impossible for me to stop hurting those that I love...it's impossible for me to make everything ok. My poor husband, my support gets smaller by the day, which means he gets to take on more. As the days go on, I feel lonelier.

berkelyp...I just love when something someone says triggers this light bulb in my head with a sudden explanation as to some of my feelings. Your comment "acknowledges my motherhood and not just my mourning", hit me like a ton of bricks. Maybe this is part of the reason that I feel so alone. Not because I'm actually alone but more because there is a part of me that even fewer people acknowledge that I'm a mom. At first, I was not happy but ok with anyone that acknowledged our grief but as time goes on, I want them to acknowledge that my life is different. That I'm not just working through grief and that's why my life is different but that I am a mom. I just have to be a mom on a very different level than most people.

Since we were able to get pregnant on a one day attempt the first time around, ttc is a very different story this time around. My husband enjoys looking at me afterwards (while my butt is lifted on a bunch of pillows) and saying "are you pregnant?". I can't help but laugh. I guess I'm getting one of my wishes, that everything related to a next pregnancy would be different from my pregnancy with Connor. I'm definitely pulling out all of the stops this month...putting my butt on pillows afterwards and waiting for a period of time...having sex every other day for an extended cycle window...not allowing any hot tub for my husband or myself...taking the ovulation predicator tests but so far they don't seem to be working well for me. Even with all of this pressure, we are both able to see the humor in this and not make it feel so much like work and a hassle. I'm sure we would be singing a very different tune if this was months of trying but we are actually enjoying something we didn't get with Connor...actually trying to conceive more than just one afternoon.

People keep trying to warn me that it might not happen this month. I know that. However, I have to remind them that I can only deal with thinking/worrying about one cycle at a time. I'll deal with the possibility of another cycle when that becomes the reality. Then that's typically followed by something along the lines of you should prepare yourself that it might now happen for a couple of months. How do I possibly prepare myself? No amount of preparing would not make seeing a negative test result next month, no big deal. I'm going to be upset. My mother was the worst. I realize that she was just worried that I would go into another severe depressed state but this is my reality...I could go into that depressed state even with a positive result...I could go into that depressed state even if we weren't ttc. I'm touched that everyone is concerned with how stable and realistic I'm being but the bottom line is my reality is only dealing with weeks at a time...not worrying about three months out.

All I can do now is constantly hope that we are successful this month. I find myself saying somewhat under my breath "Please let me be pregnant this month...PLEASE". Maybe I am putting too much into this happening but the fact that I'm hoping for something again...something that could actually happen instead of wishing that I could return to March 15th when Connor was still with us.

Question of the day: How did people react to your desire to ttc again?


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## Mamid

I'm losing my respect for my inlaws. Not so much her - she had no hand in raising any of the siblings (5 of them). But him.

Why him?

Because he pulled stunts on his only daughter to the point where he pissed her off so much she has denied him access to her children. And I don't blame him. Writing a letter of support to the courts in the name of her abusive bipolar manic depressive ex so that he'd get the kids just strikes me in so many levels of wrongness.

He's now pulling stuff with us - "you're not spending enough time over here." "you don't discipline enough." "if you don't keep your place clean enough...." And the way he said that, DP took it as a "clean up your act or I'm going to call!"

Yeah, this man has a heart condition and was raised in the "old ways" but shit, doesn't he realize that saying shit like that will loose him access to his grandson and grandchild to be? Sure his heart is back up to 20% functionality from where it was last year - 11%, but that's no excuse. Instead of making judgements, why doesn't he offer to take DS for a night? Oh, no, he can't. The place isn't childproof AND he doesn't want anything to do with DS until he can talk. ARGH.

And with some of the shit that DP has told me about when he was growing up, I really don't want to deal with that man any more than I have to. Not that he was as abusive as my mother, but that there were times in DP's life that were just not good.

So, yah, I'm loosing my respect with him. Fast.


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## iris0110

I missed yesterdays question of the day, so I want to cover both questions if I can figure out a way to do it with out it getting too confusing.

I was really unprepared for the support I got from some people and the lack of support from others. My BIL for example was up at the hospital as much as he could be, and even snuck in good food so I didn't have to live on hospital food








He has continued to be a really great support for Dh and I am grateful for that. Then there is a close friend of mine who rushed to the hospital as soon as he found out even though I hadn't seen him in months. He has continued to call and stop by to check up, and to entertain Ds while I relax. My SIL has also been great and I was really suprised. We were not super close, but when we concieved at the same time we got closer. After I lost Arawyn she was really great trying to make sure I was comfortable, and tying not to talk to much about her new baby. She tries to center conversations around our older children, and even when she has the baby with her, she tries to make sure i feel comfortable.

Berkley you mentioned feeling like you were in some strange reality. I remeber that feeling all to well. I was haunted by it until very recently. I didn't feel like I was really myself, and I would cry at a drop of a hat, and then I wouldn't be able to figure out why I was crying. Sometimes I would wonder if I had only dreamed that I was ever pregnant, like maybe Ds really was my only child. It was just all so confusing for a while. What really brought me back was getting a tattoo done in Arawyn's memory. Something about sitting in that chair and having that ink done brought me back into my body. Now I am striving not to lose myself again. It is a really strange path to tread.

Now to what everyone has said about us TTCing again. Well my inlaws are all for it. My SIL asked me the other day if I felt like I wanted to try again. I told her I did and she seemed relieved. She said she had been afraid to ask up till then because she was afraid I would be upset. She then offered me all of her maternity clothes, so now I have plenty of clothes for when I concieve. Dh goes back and forth, he is afraid of losing another baby, and also kind of afraid of having another baby. He seems to go through waves like I do. But he is really excited about the trying.







My mother has helped me stock up on all of the baby things I have been wanting. She won't say if she wants me to get pregnant again or not, but I have a feeling she just wants me to make the decision for myself. I am excited that I will be trying again soon. I have just a few more days of bleeding, and then we will attempt an every other day pattern until I concieve. I don't forsee it taking very long, but Dh is sort of hoping that it does







. I am hoping that I will concieve soon and that you and I and Sweet Teach will get to go through this together. I will definately need the support, and I dont' know any one IRL who can help me. so I am keeping my fingers crossed that we all get pregnant at close to the same time.







:


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## wilkers8

Mamid...I'm so sorry to hear that. It's so difficult to understand someone else's negative actions.

iris0110...I haven't even thought about maternity clothes or really continue to shop yet. I'm trying to keep things as focused on the day as I can. I've been purposely holding off on some of that until that HPT reads positive. I guess I think it will give me more to do while I'm trying to keep my sanity for the pregnancy. It's weird for me to hope so much that we get pregnant at the same time but I know what comfort that will be in sharing the types of fears I will have versus with a mom that's never experienced a loss. My OPK is showed that we're had the LH surge on Saturday...fingers/toes crossed!

For the first time in my life this weekend really means something to me. I've had very limited experience with death in my life until this year. My cousin died two years ago from a rare terminal disease and that pretty much turned me upside down. It's also what prompted my move back to my home state and my desire to have children. All I kept thinking during the funeral was I'm so glad that he had children prior to dying at such a young age (under 30). Now this year I'm dealing with my father in law and son's deaths. However, in all honesty, I pretty much only feel like I'm dealing with Connor's death. Sometimes I get upset because I feel like this in some way diminishes how wonderful and important my husband's father was to me. He was an amazing man but I feel like I get to see him because I see him in my husband. I can't see Connor in anyone. Then I start thinking "if I were to die today, there be no part of me left in this world. No one that people could see part of me in." I now realize that for all of my accomplishments in my personal and professional life...the only accomplishment that matters to me is having my children live longer than me. Then I realize, I will never see this accomplishment come to light completely. For as many additional children we have and they live long and wonderful lives, Connor will still be gone.

I went to retrieve the mail yesterday and noticed there was a card. At first, I was so excited. I thought "thank you, someone understands that I'm still in so much pain. That two months may seem like a long time to everyone else but it feels like just yesterday that I was told Connor was gone. Then I opened the card, it was from an aunt/uncle that I don't really talk to much. I had such mixed reactions about this. First, the card did not say Connor's name...so that automatically makes me upset. Second, I was bothered by why send a card now...you've know for 10 weeks what happened. This might sound really bad as I'm assuming their intentions were good but I wanted to send it "return to sender". I felt like they had talked to someone who said "yeah, we heard, we sent them a card" so they sent decided to finally send us a card.

I am trying really hard to remind myself that no one can understand or realize how deep my pain really is, unless they have experienced a loss. However, I can't help but get so upset and frustrated when people make comments like "are you feeling better now?", which makes me want to respond "sure, I forgot all about Connor and that I don't have a child to raise, please tell me how wonderful your life is" or "once you're pregnant again, you'll be happy" which makes me want to respond "no, I'm likely to be terrified and upset. Being pregnant is not the answer to making me suddenly ok with everything". I guess I should be happy that I haven't heard "it's god's will" anytime recently.

I am convinced now that based on the reactions I have been receiving from some people, I will definitely not be sharing the news if we are successful in ttc. At this point, the list is very small as to who I feel comfortable reaching out to. I know that people have said that some relationships get put on the side for a while and are able to be rekindled later but I'm having a hard time believing that. A friend of mine said she was going to come over the very shortly after losing Connor. I never heard from her again...that was 9 weeks ago. I don't think I will ever be able to view her in the same way. I keep waiting to hear from her but no phone call. I try to remind myself that something could be going on very bad in her life preventing that call but aside from losing someone...what lasts 9 weeks? I read all of the books but I honestly didn't think that support would be a problem for me. I had four amazing close friends that I knew loved me dearly...what I didn't realize was that I would be incapable of being happy for them, which duh...is going to cause issues. Then my husband gets upset because I start feeling like such a horrible friend and person, and he knows that this is the last thing I need to be worried about right now. I'm now really contemplating going to a therapist. I never thought I would go...not that I didn't think they were valuable and people needed them but because I didn't think I wouldn't be strong enough to handle anything. I'm handling this but I guess I would like an objective third party to tell me I'm not nuts. I'm not a horrible friend. I'm not a horrible person. I'm a grieving mom. I think that's why I'm so addicted to this site....all of you provide some of that for me. I just hate feeling so lonely but I really hate that I feel lonelier by the day.

Question of the day: Did you feel lonelier as each day passed? I'll note that I do feel even stronger bonds with a couple of my friends as we have come to a new challenge in our relationship and have succeeded at making it work. However, I've failed with others.


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## iris0110

Mamid: I am sorry your family is so screwed up. Dh's family can be like that at times. When Dh was a kid his mom left he and his two older brothers with her sister. So the boys did some boyish thing like dragging mud in to the house and Dh's aunt screamed at them "If you were my kids I would beat the S!++ out of you." Well needless to say Dh doesn't have anything to do with her any more, but he is still some what annoyed that his mother never stood up for he and his brothers. Apparently his aunt was like this alot, she also invited herself along on family vacations, and to this day she still pawns all of her responsibilities off on her other siblings. Dh's father is a little rough at times, but he is a very loving and caring man for the most part. Sometimes his teasing can be a little harsh, but I think it mostly comes from his frustration at being unable to work (he is diabetic, and mostly blind). He worked hard his whole life, and now he feels like he has to rely on other people for everything and it can make him a little grumpy, but for the most part he is really great. Dh's brother has a holy than thou attitude that I could live without, but he is great with Ds so I let our personal disagreaments slide for the sake of Dh and Ds. Mostly they are a pretty good family, and I am lucky, but some times they are down right luney. And Dh's two aunts are not welcome near me and my child. Actually until Dh's parents agreed to stop preaching at and respect that I am not Christian I would not allow them to see Ds. They changed their minds in 6months, and now my religious preferences are a non-issue. It is funny how easily they flipped in the face of losing contact with their grandkids. Hopefully your Dh's father will do the same, or you can find a way to work something out for your kids.

Wilkers: I to feel lonely. I feel really isolated from most of my old friends. I was lucky enough to find that I had some really good friends too, but alot of times we just don't have much to talk about. I lost alot of friends after I had Ds and I couldn't be out all night partying, but I lost even more now. Its hard to talk to people sometimes, and I find that alot of times I just want to be with my family. I think it is normal to feel isolated by our grief, but I have found that the more day that go by, the easier it is for me to be out and around other people. I have found that I need interaction to keep me moving forward. I do like comeing here though, because I feel more normal here. Maybe a therapist would be a good thing. It might help you to hear a professional say you are normal. I suppose it couldn't really hurt any way. I found that it helped to talk to other women who had experienced a loss IRL. It is wonderful to be here, but it isn't the same as a one on one discussion. I met some other women at my UU church who had experienced pregnancy and birth losses. They came to me when I returned to work, and they shared their experiences. One woman had lost her son 35 years ago. Her strength to move forward and have more children really inspired me. The fact that she came from a different time, when people didn't talk about these losses, and yet she still spoke about her loss. I felt like she was really brave. She told me "I moved forward with my life, because you have to move forward, but I never forgot him. I will always wonder what it would have been like to raise him, and I will always miss him." She was so strong, and it really helped me to hear that. So maybe you should try a therapist, or even a loss group in your area, most hospitals have them.

I hope you did concieve this weekend, we will be trying any day now, I just can't wait for us to both get the good news.


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## wilkers8

So I went to see my goddaughter this weekend. I was absolutely terrified that I would go to hold her and then have this overwhelming urge to leave immediately. I am so thankful that what I wasn't worried about was how my friend was going to react to anything I might do. I was completely sure that she would be supportive and understanding. Not just say she understands but means it. So upon stepping into her house, I went straight to that beautiful little girl. At first the tears did run down my face but not because of anything related to Connor but because I knew how much I had missed over the past couple of months. Yet she just looked at me and smiled. So I proceed to pick her up, half expecting her to start crying immediately. I'm not sure if this expectation was because I was afraid she hated me or because I was afraid that I am such a bad mom that no baby would want to be held by me. However, she just played with me...no tears. I felt this feeling of relief that I was doing this without wanting to run and hide. I stayed over there for hours and although at times got a little sad when I saw mom/daughter twirling or playing due to thinking that I would never have that time with Connor, for the most part this was very healing.

I left her house feeling like I had taken a huge step and the experience was not nearly as horrible as I had feared. I would love to contribute that all to my progress but I believe most of the credit goes to my friend. Obviously, her little girl is her entire world and I've had to stay away physically and not allow her to share anything about her. That hurts her but she has never made me feel bad about it...she knows I would give anything to not be hurting her or her daughter. So I was able to take this step, with confidence that I wouldn't be hurting her if I couldn't handle it. I don't know if I'm ready for her to monopolize the conversation about her little girl but I'm no longer needing her to avoid the topic all together. What a wonderful feeling!

Now I just have to work on not hurting my other friends. After I realized how bad I was hurting my friends, I contacted my friend who is due in a couple of weeks. I asked her if she just wanted to avoid me for the rest of the pregnancy because I could understand how she needs to be happy and have tons of support right now. She responded with something along the lines that one day she will likely need the type of support that she hope she is giving me right now, I know that you would be one of the people that provides it. I want to provide that for you now. Listening to her, gave me such reassurance that I was able to attempt a limited conversation about her pregnancy. I found out that she has a rash that will last until she delivers. I actually found myself being sympathetic, here she was complaining about some symptom and I was not upset. What a wonderful feeling!

Question of the day: What were some of you first wonderful feelings after your loss?


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## wilkers8

It's funny how fast wonderful feelings can be wiped out...

I just got a call from my doctor. One of the bloodtests that the labs lost orignially my doctor had me retake a few weeks ago was to check a level which would indicate possible Antiphospholipid syndrome. My level was 61 and anything above 20 is considered elavated. He said that I have to retake the test after June 22nd (6 weeks) to see if I get a second elavated levels. I asked him if this was what caused Connor's death, he said he couldn't be sure (pathology couldn't confim) but this would be something he could at least highly monitor and help reduce reoccurance versus a cord accident. I told him that we were trying this month and would likely find out if we are pregnant around June 13th. I suddenly became terrified that this was something that had to be fixed before we got pregnant but he indicated that I would be getting heparin shots throughout the pregnancy (which helps thin my blood to balance clotting). I will now become obsessed with trying to read more about this.

This is the question of the day that I would want answered...Does anyone have any experience/knowledge about this?


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## HaveWool~Will Felt

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wilkers8*
Question of the day: What were some of you first wonderful feelings after your loss?

My first wonderful feelings after Garce died were when I visited her grave and saw that another had been there to visit and had left fresh cut flowers for her. This made me cry huge tears...simply because I was so afraid that everyone would "forget" her. Now with Memorial Day come and gone...that feeling continues to warm my heart...when we visited her and placed her marker on her grave on Sunday...someone had been there before us, leaving fresh flowers again.
Many that are close to us know that I go up to her grave every Sunday. And every Sunday...there are fresh flowers in the vase next to her grave. Not the flowers I left the week before. But new ones that are perfectly arranged in the vase. Her grave is cleaned up of any debris and nice and neat.
This act of kindness is not only one of the most lovely things that others continue to do for her and me...but it is also one of the most wonderful feelings I have experience since she died.

So, in return for this selfless act of love given so freely to me....I visit two other graves of mamas I know who have lost there babes in the first few months of their lives. I clean up any debris, throw out the old flowers and leave fresh flowers in clean water. This is the first time I have shared with anyone that I have been doing this...one of those unspoken acts of kindness.

Wilkers...I wish that I knew more about what the doctors have called you about...all I know is that you are so loved. You are kept close to my heart.

Much love to you Connor's mama...

~Jackie


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## berkeleyp

Wilkers - Sorry to say I have nothing useful to share with you about your medical situation.

Jackie - that is so sweet that someone comes to Grace's grave and so thoughtful and kind that you pass the good deed on to those other grieving mothers. There should be more people like you in the world. You reminded me that I haven't been to my daughter's grave in going on two weeks. I've only been once since the funeral. She doesn't have a gravestone yet - just a little temporary plaque. I know that she has been visited by her great-grandmother though. She visits often because her husband is buried right next to my baby. It's nice to know that she is not alone.


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## gossamer

Wilkers,
One thing I would encourage you to aks your doctor's about is taking 1 baby aspirin a day plus extra Vitamin C and E. About 1000mg of C and 800 units of E daily. Antiphospholipid syndrome is a blood clotting disorder. It can also make one more susceptible to Pre-Eclampsia. Shots of Heparin are the norm now days. The sooner you can start the Daily aspirin, the better with Dr.'s permission. preeclampsia.org is a website that has more information becuase they are discovering more and more that blood clotting disorders seem to be an underlying cause of pre-e. The thought is that several micro clots or visible clots permeate the placenta and the umbilical cord. So your body has to work harder to get nutrition to the baby which send your blood pressure up which begins the cycle of pre-eclampsia, in a very simplifed explanation. I hope that helps. Best wishes to you.
Gossamer


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## wilkers8

This month, I should have been anxiously waiting for my son to arrive into this world. Now I'm anxiously waiting to find out if my son will have a sibling. And now with this new medical information hanging over my head for the next couple of weeks, I'm anxiously waiting to find out what the chances are that a sibling of Connor's will survive.

I was really ok with having Connor's death be unexplained. To know there is a possibility that my body killed Connor is horrible. To know there is a possibility that had I taken this blood test early in my pregnancy with Connor, he could be with us. I know that I shouldn't be doing the what-ifs or blame routine, especially since the test to verify whether I do have this syndrome is not even ready to be tested. However, I can't help fear that the chances of having a baby just reduced even with medical help to balance this syndrome. When the results were unexplained, my chances were 97% with this syndrome treated my chances are now 75%. How could I possibly not be upset by that!

So much for closure, I'm now very glad we haven't picked up Connor's ashes with this lingering out there. Not to mention, I'm now worried about my own health. It probably doesn't help that I will focus all of my attention on reading about this syndrome in order to avoid having a nervous breakdown waiting for the day I can take a HPT. The scary part is I might be pregnant...I hope I'm pregnant. I will be going into the doctor's office immediately, if I am but until we can take the second test...I won't know if I have this syndrome. There is a gap...I should find out if I'm pregnant the week of the 13th and I can't take the second test until the 22nd, and I don't know how long it will take to get the results of that test.

I started to believe in signs regarding Connor. I'm fearful that these are signs that I'm not meant to raise a child...that being a mom is not the one domestic skill I have...that what I want most, I'll never have. Just when I think I'm conquering these fears, something else happens and I'm back to square one. Maybe there's a reason that I keep going back to square one...maybe it's because I haven't figured out that this is not going to happen. Ok, yes, very pessimistic today.

Question of the day: How do you keep hope alive and not just up?


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## berkeleyp

Oh Wilkers - all I can think to do is send you good vibes and cyber hugs. I hope that all the tests come back with the results you want - no scary syndrome - and two pink lines on the HPT. Based on what little I know of you - I think you are definetely meant to be a mom - no matter how scary things get. Remember - you already are a great mom who gave Connor everything that you could and continue to love him dearly. Your love for Connor should tell you what a great mom you are and will be to his siblings.


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## ksjhwkr

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wilkers8*
Question of the day: How do you keep hope alive and not just up?

I don't know. Somedays it is easier than others. I want to live my life so that Emma can say, "That's my Mom! I am so proud of her." That is what helps me when I feel hope dying. I want to be the kind of person that I dreamed Emma of being.

You are in my thoughts so often Wilkers. I pray that the doctors can help you and that all works out so wonderfully and that Connor will be a big brother soon.


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## wilkers8

berkeleyp...I think that's what helps to make it difficult to know I'm a good mom. No one (or majority of people) gets to see how much love I have for Connor. It's not like I'm getting to walk him down the street and people think "oh, how cute or look how good of a mom she is with him while he's crying". So unless a person talks to me about my grief, they barely think I'm a mom let alone a good one.

ksjhwkr...what a nice thought...the idea that Connor would be proud of me. I can't say that all of my actions in life I am proud of or had good intentions behind but when it comes to that little boy...well, I hope he's proud.

So my husband had to go on a business trip for three days to NY. Originally, he refused this trip as it meant he would be leaving so close to my due date. Now that I no longer have a due date, he had to go. This is not all that bad as his family all lives in NY. He even was able to make it to our nephew's 2nd birthday party. However as I sit here alone in the house, thoughts/feelings are becoming a little overwhelming.

First, trying to determine what family really means. As I have no relationship with my father's side of the family, I've always had issues with this thought. My mother's side of the family is rather large. My mother is one of 8 and I have 18 cousins (not counting spouses) and yet I feel very little support from most of them. Out of the few that did send some sort of support, most of them felt very obligatory not really trying to understand what happened. I come to this because not one of them said Connor by name or have followed up. My uncle/godfather sent me an email today (sent a card a two weeks after Connor's death). I appreciated the email and ended up going into a rant about how angry I am at the family for their lack of support, let alone sincere support. I highly doubt I will be attending any family functions such as weddings/showers/etc. Why should I...because they are my extended family, what does that really mean. Yes we have some of the same blood but I don't think there are that many of my aunts and uncles that would really be impacted by anything in my life. I had come to terms with blood meaning nothing and accepting that on my father's side of the family. However, I didn't really expect to have it be my entire extended family. My closest friend and Pete's family have provided me support. They are the ones that I find comfort in. They are the ones that make me feel like my pain is theirs also. They are the ones I believe care about me. Why would I remotely feel anything for the rest?

Second, jealously. Yep, the emotion is present and not remotely feeling like it's close to leaving. I think about how one of my hopes was that I delivered Connor early during the first week of June. Instead, I'm waiting to find out if I will be looking forward to another due date. Yet, everyone else around me seems to be popping out babies like nothing. I knew a ton of people around me had announced that they were pregnant after me but I didn't mind it then. Now I'm so jealous that they will know what it feels like to hold their child and have them cry. Yet I only know what it feels like to hold my dead child...something I hope they will never know what that feels like. Even when (if we are lucky enough to) we have a sibling for Connor and I know what it feels like to have a live child, I am pretty sure that I still have jealously that others are able to go through their pregnancy with no fear...so naive...so innocent of the greatest pain.

Third, what if this is it? What if we continue to lose our children? What if we will only have a dog in the house? I asked my husband what would happen if we lose another child...his response "then we keep trying until we have as many children in this house as we want". He said it with such a tone of confidence that this house was meant to have children running around. I don't think I believed him until this very moment that things will eventually be better. I long for the day when things are at least a little better.

Lastly (at least last of what I'm writing not what's going through my mind), fear. What a simple word yet so much involved behind it. How's this for a scary thought...I think I am discovering something which causes me more fear than just never having a child to raise...I fear myself. I fear that I won't allow myself be happy again. I fear that I won't allow myself to believe that I'm a good mom. I fear that I won't allow myself to trust things will work out. I fear that I won't allow myself to accept the new woman I've become. I fear myself.

Question of the day: What do you fear?


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## gossamer

I fear never being the mother of a living child.
I fear always defining myself as a grieving mother.
I fear that I will lose more children.
I fear that I will collapse into a puddle of sorrow and never stop crying.
Gossamer


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## starfairy

(((GOSSAMER))) I pray that all your fears are never realized........


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## Mamid

triple ditto what Starfairy said Gossermer.









I don't know what's worse...

Loosing a child through miscarriage...
Loosing a child through stillbirth...
Loosing a child who has lived - be it days, months, years or decades...
Loosing a child through CPS maneuverings like being adopted and all lines of communication are cut...

But I do know what hurts more than any of the above - being told that you're "not a mother" because your child is lost.

That is the knife wound that kills one's soul. Too many horrid careless people don't understand what they do to us when they say those hurtful words.


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## HaveWool~Will Felt

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wilkers8*
Question of the day: What do you fear?

I fear that one day when I have to go down the "baby items" aisle at the grocery store (which is also where they keep feminie hygeine products) that I may collapse from the pain I feel inside.
I have visualized falling to the floor in all my pain and sorrow and never being able to get back up, having the store manager call my husband or better yet 911 stating that they have an hysterical woman who won't get off the floor.
THAT IS MY FEAR...

For the last 5 years I have used cloth diapers, cloth menstrual pads and reusable sea sponge tampons...so hopefully I won't have to go down that aisle anytime soon. Actually I still haven't had a period since Gracie was born.
Just breaks my heart over and over.

In the back of my mind I fear somehow that I will never get pregnant again. I know better than to think that...however I still do.

One last fear...I fear the day when I assist a birth and the baby is born still or dies shortly after birth. This I fear...I know that it will happen...mainly because most of the "seasoned" midwives I know have endured this experience at least once.

Thanks ladies for sharing...warm, squishy hugs to all of you.


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## ksjhwkr

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wilkers8*
Question of the day: What do you fear?

I fear that the extra plot my Mom bought at the cemetery "just in case" will be filled by another one of my children. I fear that I will give birth to this baby, raise this baby to the ripe old age of 8 months and have to bury this baby too. I fear that someday the cemetery will be full of my children. I fear that Emma will be forgotten. I fear that I will die of a broken heart. I fear that if my children live, I won't be the kind of Mother they deserve, I'll be the grieving Mom...I fear that my children will resent Emma. I fear that I will lose everyone I love and will be left here completely alone.


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## HaveWool~Will Felt

I want to relinquish all my fears...from this day forward. I am tired of being afraid...it takes too much out of me...

I am off to have my first pap since before I got pregnant with Grace...should be interesting...


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## Mamid

If you didn't have those fears, you wouldn't be human.


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## HaveWool~Will Felt

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mamid*
If you didn't have those fears, you wouldn't be human.

I undertand that...I am simply tired of being "consumed" with fear. I feel there is a difference.


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## iris0110

I never thought of myself as a fearful person before, but in the past five months I have discovered that I fear many things.

I fear that Arawyn will be forgotten.
I fear that I will never have another child.
I fear that something will happen to Kearnan.
I fear that I am a bad mother, this one has been following me around for a long time and just won't go away.
I fear that I caused my daughters death.
I fear that I don't deserve the child I have.
Most of all I fear becoming consumed by my own fear.

Wilkers, I just wanted you to know that I learned something about family when I was a teenager. I learned that family is what you make it. Family isn't just blood you see. I have a very close family that is in no way related to me by blood. I am close to my mother and father, and I am very glad about that, but I live to far away from any other "family members" to be close with them really. We don't wish each other ill or anything like that, but we aren't close. I have a brother, and we are kind of close, but not something that a heartwarming book could be written about. My husband is close with his siblings and parents, and as a result I have become close with them as well, but as for his extended family, well lets just say we don't get invited to many dinner parties. I have heard you talk about your friends and about your Dh's family, and I would say that you have created a good and supportive family for yourself, and you should be proud of that. You have created a supportive environment for yourself, and for your children. And I think that someday very soon you are going to prove to the world what a great mother you are, though those of us here already see it.







I am sure Connor is very proud of you.


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## wilkers8

Reading some of your fears, makes me feel a little bit normal in that I can relate...which means I'm not alone. It's strange how from an outside perspective, this seems like such a logical/obvious point. However, it's a point that has to be continuously demonstrated throughout the grief process. I appreciate everyone's willingness to share with me their fears to help me face the next set of fears that I will have to endure.

So this week marked the first week that I had to be face to face with people who knew I was pregnant before. I was returning to a client site for a sales pitch. This was the client site where I was located when I got pregnant and had pretty much told everyone at my 14th week and then rolled of the project shortly after that. As I drove up to the building, I headed to the visitor parking. There it was...the expectant mother parking spots. The spots that I looked at each morning and thought "I can't wait until I get to use that spot. There was a feeling of importance...of pride to be able to use those spots. Now I had to drive by them again. I never got to use the spot. Out of everything I've been cheated out on...who knew that a parking spot would trigger such emotions?

As I started to get over the parking spot emotions, fear swept over me in anticipation of what would happen upon seeing everyone. Some did ignore that anything ever happened and just asked how my marriage was (I was married only shortly before starting this engagement). Some say simply they were sorry and quickly changed the subject. But then it happened...what I feared...a client approached me and asked "You look great for post pregnancy. How's your little one?" I tried...I tried with all of my might to not let tears come to my eyes. I knew it wouldn't be professional and I knew he had not asked to hurt me. However, I couldn't keep those tears away. They rolled down my face as I turned and said "my son, Connor, was a stillborn." "No, don't worry. Although I am sad and the last couple of months have been difficult, I love having people mention my son.". Then the conversation ended. I felt so empty. I didn't get to do typical proud mom things, like say how smart he is, or what cute thing he just did, I had no pictures to show every single person around or even complain about the lack of sleep. Again, I felt so cheated.

I've been waking up each morning and thinking "I would have been only 8 days away from my due date. Now I have four days before I can start testing to see if I'm pregnant. This month I would have wanted the pregnancy to end...now I want to start one. I will be on my second pregnancy only there's a huge chunk of pregnancy that I'm not familiar with 28-40 weeks. Now I will never get to have those weeks be innocent and just focus on the pregnancy and not the fears. I feel so cheated.

Question of the day: What do you feel cheated about?


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## gossamer

I feel cheated out of getting to smell sweet milky breath, hoding my daughter close and feeling her hand grasp my finger, waiting for her first smile, watching her be surrounded by extended family that loves her, listening for her breaths at night, brushing her hair, getting to show her off to all of the grandma's at church, buckling her in a carseat when we go out, watching people smile at her and then tell me how cute she is, walking with the pride of being a momma, watching her go to kindergarten, being terrified of her going off to college, crying as she walks down the aisle, watching she and her daddy become friends, learning who she is, what her likes and dislikes are, what her values are, experiencing the force of her personality. I think the question should be what do I not feel cheated out of.
Gossamer


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## Mamid

I feel cheated out of being able to watch my child become an active teenager and I especially feel cheated to not being able to give him to a loving couple who were desperate for children.


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## iris0110

I feel cheated out of becoming a mother of two. I will never truly be a mother of two. I will always see Arawyn as my second child, but I will never get to mother her. I feel like I have been cheated out of that special mother daughter bond that you always hear about. I feel like I got cheated out of dressing her up and taking her out, out of pig tails and braids. I got cheated out of sleepovers and highschool dances. I got cheated out of seeing that first father daughter dance, and seeing her walk down the aisle. What really hurts though is that I feel like my son got cheated out of his chance at knowing his sister. I may have more children, but Ds will never get to know this sister. He will never fight with her about who got the best lollipop, or tell her secrets. I always hoped they would be close like Dh is with his siblings, but now they won't have that chance. I think that is what makes me feel the most cheated, not for myself, but for what my son is missing out on.


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## SweetTeach

Wilkers, you are "lucky" that you just now had to face people who knew you were pregnant. It could have happened a lot sooner. Try not to feel bad about crying in front of that man- you will cry in front of a lot more people before it's all said and done. Any normal human being would have compassion for you.

I have had SO many interactions like the one you described. I never imagined that it would get "easier", but it actually has. Now I can tell people about Nazir, watch the smile slide off of their faces and the tears well up in their eyes and just kind of stand there looking at them. Sometimes when they look like they want to dwell too much in a way that makes me uncomfortable, I can change the subject...so can you believe those lakers? What a bizarre world we live in now, huh?

Hope you're making it through these next few days okay.
ST


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## HaveWool~Will Felt

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wilkers8*
Question of the day: What do you feel cheated about?

I feel cheated by the fact that so many think and have said that "At least you have two other children"...be grateful for what you have.
If I wasn't a lady...I am afraid of what I would say to these people.
Anyone who thinks that my pain is different or less than theirs is strongly mistaken....
Everyday I have to talk to my other 2 children about why their sister isn't here anymore....they don't quite understand this whole process...therefore I have everyday reminders, verbal reminders about my daughter dying. Somedays I don't feel like I ever get a breather from her dying.
I am grateful for my other children...more than anyone will ever know...all I am saying is that it is hard...not actually harder for those without other children...just hard....


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## Mamid

"you're young, you can have more children." Do you know how many miscarriages I've had? saying that negates what I've gone through. I was cheated out of _that_ child, and possibly all the others I could ever have!

"the baby probably had something wrong with it" I don't care if it was going to be a 5 eyed, 10 limbed monster. It was _my_ baby!

"it was probably for the best" Whose best? Yours? Definately not mine!


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## wilkers8

Well, it came last night. Nope, not what I wanted a positive pregnancy test but my period. This might be my second pregnancy but this is the first month that we have ever tired and it didn't work. I'm so disappointed. I know that this is irrational but my first thought was...oh sh*t, what if we can't get pregnant now. Rationally, I know this is completely unlikely but that was my first thought.

After crying hysterically for a while, I remembered my promise to Connor...try to look at the positives.

So what's the positives...
- Although the due date would have been in Feb, I would likely be induced even four weeks early. Never really liked the idea of having a baby so close to the holidays.
- We'll now be able to find out if I have this syndrome prior to the beginning of a pregnancy.
- Another month of lots of sex
- As much as I wanted to be pregnant while events happened this month, I will now be able to drink myself into a stupor if needed.
- My body has another month to re-cooperate some more.
- My period returned on a 25 day cycle. I much prefer that cycle than a 30 day one.

Although, this last positive brings up a frustration point...I never seem to get the correct results from the OPK. The first month, I thought they read a 23 day cycle but my period arrived on a 30 day cycle. This time around, I thought they read a 28 day cycle but my period arrived on a 25 day cycle. I mean we were still having sex every other day during this entire time span but I think I'm done using those tests. They are just not working right for me. However, the problem is still that my cycle is all over the place so we'll just have to increase the range of dates for next month.

There's no question of the day...instead, this is the day that marked that I'm still a mom to no living children.


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## SweetTeach

Wilkers, sorry to hear that you didn't get what you wanted this month. There's a part of you that was kind of preparing yourself for this, though, so try and hold on to that if you can.
As far as the OPK's you should really go over to the ttc forum- there's a wealth of info on all things ttc related and the general consensus seems to be that opk's are not a surefire way to "catch the egg". Bottom line is you can do everything "right" and still not end up pg, right? I know it sucks, but it's reality.

I have another positive to add to your list. You have another couple of weeks for your hormones to stabilize. You've had pg hormones and post partum hormones coursing through your body for the last 9 months. You have some more time for those things to even out a bit before you jump on the pg hormone bandwagon again.

Well, you know my story and my all over the place cycles, but hopefully yours will be more predictable and your wish will come true next month! I hear ya on the irrational thoughts; I definitely suffer from that kind of thinking when things I can't control don't go the way I want them to. It sucks.

I think a good drink (or 3) sounds great right about now. I had a couple last weekend and I thoroughly enjoyed them.


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## gossamer

Wilkers, I am so sorry you got your perios. I also have the fear that when the time comes, I won't be able to conceive. You are in my thoughts and prayers.
Gossamer


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## Katana

Wilkers, lots of







to you.

My cycles have always been between 24-26 days long. I bleed for 6-7 days, usually. I ovulate on day 8/9 of my cycle, usually, but sometimes on day 7.

I'm not saying it's like this for you, but I just wanted to put this up, to say, in my case, sometimes the whole time after I stop bleeding, I am not fertile. If we were trying to plan a pregnancy (my fondest wish), I know our best chance would be to have sex towards the end of my bleeding, rather than waiting for it to stop.

I've never managed to get the hang of those OPK tests. I learned to read my cervical mucas, which was not as hard as it sounded. And I rely on my desire for sex as well. It's almost uncontrollable when I'm ovulating.

Wishing you lots of luck...


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## berkeleyp

So sorry that you didn't see that wonderful pink line this time around. It's good to hear that you have thought of some positives though. It's so hard to look on the bright side in spite of everything. Hugs to you.


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## Mamid

Think of it this way : your body needs to heal from the loss and it will take at least the same amount of time you were pregnant in order to heal if not more.

It takes 10 lunar months to have a baby, it takes at least that long to fully recover from having it.

So, look at your period as part of the healing process. It is a good sign and shows that you are starting to heal physically from the trauma.


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## wilkers8

"What can I do or say to [make you feel better or help]?" Asked with sincerity...asked often...yet, my response is always the same "nothing". The fact is if there was something that could be said or done to magically fix everything...fix me, I would have done it months ago. A number of people keep telling me how worried they are about me, especially since I sound so depressed still. I can't help but think..."no sh*t I'm depressed. My son died. My life will never be the same so my happiness will not be the same. There's no quick solution...there's only time to help ease the pain, not remove the pain." I believe they try to understand this but I still get the vibe that people think I'm dealing with this so horribly. However, when I read other's stories posted here, I feel like I'm doing pretty freakin well considering. Yes, I have my extremely bad days (especially this week with Connor's due date quickly approaching and just finding out that our first month's attempt of ttc was unsuccessful). However, I'm still managing to get my butt out of bed each morning. I'm still managing to not drink myself into a stupor every night. I'm still managing to not give up. How much more can be expected of me?

I know my husband said for better or for worse, but neither one of us ever imagined we were signing up for this. Sometimes I feel like he got a raw deal. Not only did he lose his first born son but his wife will never be the same person. He is constantly reassuring me of how much he loves me and I know he's completely sincere. I just hate that we can't fall into bed and discuss how wonderful our lives are. Instead, we both fall into bed completely exhausted from feeling empty and bad all of the time.

Logically, I know how unrealistic it was to get pregnant in one month. Connor was a blessing that way. And I did say I didn't want my second pregnancy to be anything similar to my first...so not happening in one month is exactly what I had asked for. However, there was a huge part of me that didn't want to believe that it wouldn't work. I didn't want to start fearing that we wouldn't be able to get pregnant (which is exactly what I'm doing now). Plus, I somewhat thought that if it did happen right away then maybe it would give a little reason as to why Connor died when he did (I would never had been able to get pregnant in May any other way). So I'm still left with no small possible reasons why. You would think I would just accept that there was no reason that I would never raise my first born, but this is the hardest thing to accept. I can accept that I didn't cause Connor's death...I can accept that nothing could have prevented it...I can accept my new reality (ok in time) but what I don't think I will ever accept...is there was no reason for the timing of his death.

I used to enjoy the feeling of anticipation but I thought I would be anticipating the birth of my first born but instead I'm anticipating how horrible Connor's due date will be. Compounded with knowing that I now have another four weeks of my life on hold...I'm barely able to motivate myself for anything. I've taken a few days off from exercising and partaking with a few cocktails instead. This week is giving me a glimpse of what I might feel like next year at March. I was feeling much better a couple of weeks ago and then this week...I feel almost as bad as I did the week of losing Connor. That horrible empty but heavy feeling in my chest is back. That horrible feeling that something is wrong, only this time you know exactly what's wrong but you can't change it. You would think that this would be a negative glimpse but the truth is...I find a little comfort in it. To me, this is just another symbol of my love for Connor and how not having him in my life is something that greatly impacts me. I'm proud that I'm greatly impacted by this. I think it might be why the first statement in this post is starting to get to me...I don't want to hold onto the hurt to validate Connor but I don't want to ignore the hurt either. The bottom line is for me (and a lot of other women) losing a child during pregnancy is horrific and as much as I may dislike parts of who I am now...I would dislike me even more if I wasn't as impacted by losing Connor as I am now. So maybe the real truth is, unless the magical fix is bringing back Connor...I'm not interested in a quick fix.

Question of the day: Is anyone else not interested in quick fixes but instead just trying to deal with things one at a time?


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## wilkers8

In just one hour, Connor's due date will arrive. For the longest time, I thought 6/17 would never get here and then for the past three months, I've feared the arrival of today. So as I tried to write my journal post, I was having a hard time getting things straight in my mind. I kept wanting to tell Connor things, so that's exactly what I'm going to do. Write today's post to Connor...

Connor,

Since October 8th, I had been anticipating today's arrival. I thought today would be the day my life turned upside down. I thought today would be when I found out what you looked like. I thought today would be the day that I became a mom. Only you arrived too soon just three months ago. You were so adorable. You had blonde hair just like your daddy did when he was little. In my mind and heart, you had his blue eyes also especially since this is the feature that I hoped most for you. Even at such an early stage, you were so tall. For the first time, finger toes looked cute. That was the day you taught me the biggest lesson in life...a woman becomes a mom the minute their child is conceived.

I had so many dreams and hopes for you. Not of exactly what you would do professionally but just that you would positively impact the world. It never occurred to me that I wouldn't see you grow up. It never occurred to me that I would never see you look at me. It never occurred to me that I would have to say goodbye so quickly. It never occurred to me that you would be the one teaching me lessons and not the other way around.

When I found out that you were inside of me, I made some very early promises to you. The most important one was that you would have a family to be proud of. I was confident that I could be a parent that wouldn't abuse you. I was confident that your daddy was a wonderful man and role model for you. However, I was completely unprepared to handle losing you. I'm trying so hard to still be someone you can be proud of but this is so difficult. You're my sweet baby boy and I can't be with you. I miss you so much. I really do try to look at the positives but I can't help some days from hating that this was the lesson I had to learn.

We are trying to conceive a sibling for you. So I will make a new promise to you...this family will always honor you. If we are lucky enough to raise a sibling, that child will know how much we love you. How much we miss you. How lucky we were to have you in our lives even if the time was cut way to short.

I don't know where you are today. I'm not sure I know what I believe in anymore. However, I'm positive your baga is with you. Your daddy has so many of the same wonderful qualities that he had. So I know you are being well taken care of and that he's telling you how much we love you. I just wish that I could be telling it to you myself. I guess I'm hoping that I'm telling you now.

So with all of my heart, I thank you for being a part of my life...a part of me. I know there are days when the tears don't stop...when the pain just won't fade even a little but this is because of how much I love you and how much it hurts to not have you here. Suddenly that quote of "it's better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all"...I now know what that means. As difficult as things are now, I would never wish/want you to not have been part of our lives. You've accomplished exactly what I had hoped for...you have positively impacted my world.

Love Always,
Your mommy

Question of the day: Do you think he heard me?


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## Mamid

The dead can hear our thoughts...

So can the not-yet-conceived. And occasionally we can hear theirs.


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## rachelle-a-tron

Love to you Mama...


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## rachelle-a-tron

Oh & he definately heard you.


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## Gemini

Yes, I do think he can hear you.

Connor, your mama and daddy love you so much! You're a lucky guy!

Take care mama. I think it's woderful to always want to honor him for always. We have pictures of our dd that passed away after birth all around. We talk abut her all the time. We must never forget the lessons that our little ones teach us. *big hug*

Love to you on your tough day. If you own a house, perhaps buy a plant or tree to plant in your yard.


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## Katana

Oh wilkers, that was so beautiful. I know that he heard you. I believe that our babies can hear us, even when we don't speak. It's a heart connection.








to you.


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## Welovedante

hugs and loving thoughts to you. Yes, I think Connor hears you and feels your love. Your post brought tears to my eyes. I can hear your bittersweet pain, wilkers8.

Heidi


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## SweetTeach

Oh yes Wilkers, Connor has been listening to you all along!


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## iris0110

I think Connor always hears you, and he is very proud of you.


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## HaveWool~Will Felt

Wilkers,
I know that Connor has heard you from before he was concieved. He definitly hears you now.





























I visited Grace today at the cemetary...I took an extra rose for Connor and put it in her vase.

We love you Connor's MAMA!!!


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## wilkers8

Thank you. Thank you all so much for such kinda and supportive words. To be able to write something like that and not have people think I was nuts, is so comforting. I felt a little awkward about it afterwards until I saw such a positive response to my post. I can not begin to even really explain how all of the support from the site has helped me...but you could probably guess that with my obsessive posting to this thread.

Before I talk about the 17th, I had another experience this past week also that needs to be shared. On the 16th, I had to meet a couple of subcontractors for a project that might be starting. One of them asked me if I had children during lunch. In a very solid voice, I replied "I had a son, Connor but he passed away this year.". I had practiced this response as I knew it was only a matter of time before the question happened. I didn't cry when I responded. I didn't want to rip his face off when I responded. I did shake a little after but it was more from realizing that I didn't cry. My boss/friend looked at me after lunch and told me "I've always had respect for you but after that lunch I don't think I could possibly respect you more than I do now". This comment made me feel so good. There are days that I completely think I'm handling this like a 2 year old but hearing this reminds me that I'm dealing with this pretty well. What a positive feeling...I was able to acknowledge Connor and gain respect in the process.

As for the 17th, we didn't really do anything particularly special. When the day finally arrived, I suddenly felt like...although, this was the day I expected his birth to be, his real date was 3/17. I felt somewhat like a normal mom for just a brief moment. Normal moms don't have due date celebrations when their child is born on a day other than their due date. They remember that their child was early/late but they don't do anything in particular on that day if it wasn't the delivery date. I suddenly felt that way once the day actually arrived. I knew that 3/17 would forever mean more than 6/17. I knew that my pain and sadness was more in relation to acknowledging that...yes, there would definitely be no baby in this home by the middle of June. So as the middle of June arrived, I had to accept this.

So one way that I could show that I was accepting this...was by doing something that I would never had been able to do in June otherwise. I took off with my friend to Cedar Point on Friday. This was a trip we made every year since we were 10 until we pretty much left for college. First, the new roller coaster is absolutely amazing. For brief seconds, I was completely laughing from sheer terror. We left the day feeling somewhat old and in disbelief that we were able to do this for entire weekends but overall it was a day that I just needed to be away. We talked about everything and I found myself being excited for the day when we bring our teenagers back here for the weekend. I would have moments of fear that I will never have a teenager to bring back but most of the time I found myself anticipating these weekend trips. To anticipate something else...what a positive feeling.

After doing these types of things (also seeing my god-daughter, etc), I always feel better. Maybe what I could do in June to honor Connor is just take as many of these difficult leaps as I can this month (within reason of my sanity). I think my next leap will be in regards to my friend who is due very soon. She has been such a wonderful support and understanding in my need for space. I'm so glad to start feeling like the need for space is becoming stupid. However, I do realize that I need to not overdue it...I don't want to regress backwards.

Question of the day: Have any of you regressed completed backwards after an event? I know that for every couple of steps I take forward, I will occasionally take a step backward but I'm worried about taking too many steps backward.


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## iris0110

First I wanted to say congratulations on handling that tough question. You really did wonderfully. I was faced with a similar situation today, and I think I did pretty well if I do say so myself. I took Ds over to visit my neighbors grandson and they were having a great time together, when my neighbor noticed Arawyn's footprints that I had tattooed on the tops of my feet. She asked if they were a real tattoo and I said "Yes they are my daughters footprints, I got them after I lost her in December." Her daughter said "I can't believe that those are really a baby's footprints they are so tiny." I said "Arawyn was still born at 22 weeks, and she was very small." She then asked, "So you had to deliver her and everything." I told them "Yes I delivered her like normal, and named her and then had a funeral for her." She said "I'm sorry that must have been so hard I didn't know that had happened." All in all I felt like I handled it pretty well, and they were really nice about it. I had thought that they already knew, we have been neighbors since I was a small child, and her youngest daughter and I were best friends. We have kind of grown apart now that I am married and have started a family, but I assumed that my mother had told them about Arawyn. I feel pretty good about telling them though, and I am glad they know. I am also glad that Ds got along so well with her grandson, but that is a whole different story. So Cheers to us for handling tough questions this week.
















ANd to answer the question of the day, once I felt like I slipped all the way back to the begining. Right after Dh's cousin died. It wasn't that long after Arawyn died, and everyone seemed to think that I should get over my loss so I could support Dh's aunt. Then everyone kept making comments about how my loss wasn't as big or as important because my daughter was never really born. I got really upset and hid from Dh's family for over a week.







Even when I started talking to them again, I felt really defensive and like I had to hide my feelings.







: It was really awful and I hit bottom for awhile. I spent a couple of days just looking through Arawyn's memory box, and trying to remember what it was like to be pregnant with her and what it was like to hold her. It wasn't quite as bad as those first weeks, but it was close. I am hoping to never go back that far again, but I do worry about December 21 of this year.

I am glad to here that the week wasn't as bad as you expected. Arawyns due date was similar to me. I like how you put that 3/17 meant more than 6/17. I feel the same way about Arawyn. What ever her due date was, her birth date will always be 12/21/03 to me. I am glad we could be here to support you this week, and that you felt that you could lean on us all.







mama


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## wilkers8

iris0110...ditto the cheers. Just a few months ago, I would have never thought that these types of events would be what challenged me the most.

I think Father's Day was tougher for me than Mother's Day. My husband is such a wonderful man. He has had to deal with so much these past few months and never did we think how much this day would sting. We had no father to call and celebrating my husband as a father is painful. I woke up this morning so wishing that his gift today would have been Connor. Instead, we went through the day trying to not be incredibly sad. I now understand how he felt on Mother's Day...you want this to be such a special day for the other but it just won't be. That's so hard to accept.

A couple of years ago, a friend recommended that I read Suzanne's Diary to Nicholas by James Patterson. I remember that I read the book in one evening (couldn't put it down) and I had cried multiple times while reading the book. For those that have not read this book, it's a story about love and loss. I read this book again this weekend (again in one evening). Although this time around, I cried at different parts and in some places at a completely different level of intensity. When I read the book the first time, I felt so sorry for this man who endured so much loss (the way the story is written, I don't want to give away anything). However, this time around, I didn't feel sorry for him...I felt the pain. It's so strange that I book can be one thing to you during one period of your life and mean something altogether different during another. I think I will be going back and reading a few books over again.

Question of the day: Do you find that things suddenly take on a completely different meaning?


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## ray_eeg

Wilkers - I've just read every post on this thread. I had a miscarriage (early) three months ago and am now pregnant with my fingers crossed. I'm mentioning this only in a supportive, it-can-happen way. Suzanne's Diary is one of my favorites - interesting the way a mother's journal helped to clarify another person's relationship (and life, too?) I'm wondering if you feel some affinity with this, given that as Connor's mom, your journaling has also been a way to help clarify or understand the different parts of love.

I had a couple of thoughts I wanted to share with you, just as another experience to reflect on. 2003 was the year from hell for me - several deaths, lots of sadness, 2 year mark of infertility, health problems coming up. I had the same "that woman is smacking her baby, doesn't she get it that some people can't have them? that dumb teenager can't take care of a baby/won't love her baby as much as I would love one/etc" feelings as you've expressed. I want you to know that these feelings may come back as you are ttc, so you aren't surprised to find yourself "back there" again. Another thing to keep in mind is that life won't be bad forever. There is always joy, if you look for it. (I am not a positive person by nature - this is hard, it takes work, it doesn't happen all the time.) I'm not lecturing, I promise - but try to have that positivity in your mind and heart while ttc. All that "just relax, try not to think about it" crap is just that, crap. But having a generally positive attitude, a wilkers-centered attitude will help you to find that joy.









Your question of the day is "Do you find that things take on a different meaning?" My answer, of course they do. We are moms now, babies or not. When I was younger, my mom always cried at Hallmark Cards. I thought it was so dumb. But, I cried looking as Father's Day cards the other day. Because I understand that overwhelming love my DH had for that piece of tissue my OB had to pull out, the overwhelming love he has for the heartbeat we just heard on an U/S. I hope you can let yourself look at the world as a mom, because you are and and always will be.

I will keep you and Connor in my prayers.


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## HaveWool~Will Felt

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wilkers8*
Question of the day: Do you find that things suddenly take on a completely different meaning?

I feel very strongly about the fact that almost everything has taken on a completely different meaning today.

Father's Day, for example, has never meant to me what it has this year. I am not saying that it hasn't been important in the past. It just means MORE and it is different.

Mother's Day, same thing....just more emotional for me.

Birthday's and so on...they all have had a much more deeper impact on me.

Most importantly...each day seems to be different for me. I have forced myself to see each day more like today could be my last day here. Therefore...I spend more time enjoying the small things. Like reading the same book to my children over and over for the 100th time, because that is the book "they" want, not the one I want. Another example is I call my husband more during the day to say "I love you". I strive to *show* that I love my family more than I did before. I spend countless hours in my garden and other areas of my yard much more than I did before.

Like I said..I feel that my entire life has taken on a completely different meaning since Grace died.

Today I don't have to have a reason to be sad. I just allow myself to feel my feelings and try not to figure out "why" I am feeling the way I do.

Thanks for the question Wilkers...I am happy to hear that Father's Day went ok....considering. Also, I am pleased to see all the support you received this past week.


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## wilkers8

ray_eeg...I definitely didn't start this thread even with the intent of it becoming a journal. I was never the diary/journal type, however, I can't imagine not having it now. As I occasionally go back and read some of the previous posts, I do start to understand different parts of my life and how the loss of Connor has become part of who I am. I like the "wilkers8-centered attitude"...I think I've been doing that but have been feeling guilty about it. I'm starting to finally get that this is just what I have to do and feeling guilty is not going to help. I definitely want to look at the world as a mom but I wish the world would look at me as a mom.

jackieg213..."I don't have to have a reason to be sad"...this so hit home. My husband and I still will acknowledge that we are having a particularly sad day and the other always follows it up with "what happened?" but the truth is nothing needs to happen...just some days the emptiness feels so big and heavy.

I went to take my second test to determine if I do have APS. They didn't have the order on file but what they did have was an HCG level test on file. So the lady proceeded to ask me how far along I was...I didn't prepare an answer for this question. So I broke out in tears and replied that I had already lost my son and this was not the correct test. She immediately felt horrible and I've never had such a quick wait in a lab before. I absolutely hate that innocent questions hurt so bad. At least I will have an answer on this syndrome in the next couple of days.

Then I got the phone call this morning that I knew would be coming. My friend that was due (actually today) delivered her daughter on Father's Day. She waited to call me to make sure she was alone and had time. My friend said she is a very healthy little girl with dark hair (which is quite funny since both of the parents are light blonde and both my husband and I are dark haired but Connor had blonde hair). At first, I was so happy that she had her little girl and everyone was safe. However, after knowing that, my pain set in. We were supposed to have these children together. Why is her little girl with us but not Connor? She was able to give her husband a wonderful father's day gift with their child...why wasn't I? I asked her what it felt like to have her baby look at her...I knew I was only tormenting myself but I couldn't help it. It's just a hard thing to be so happy for someone and yet so sad about the news all at the same time. My friend, of course, was wonderful. She knew that this would be hard for me and although she should be enjoying every minute of these days, I could hear the pain and concern in her voice for me. I hate that she has to worry about me right now. I hate that this situation...this phone call could have been such a wonderful moment in our friendship but instead I cried my eyes out. I couldn't even hold it in. I wanted to...I wanted her to be happy...I wanted her to know that I am happy for her. I just wish it would have worked out for both of us. She said she wished she was with me just to give me a hug and my response was "she has someone else that needs her right now"...I WISH CONNOR NEEDED ME NOW.

Question of the day: "Do you ever feel like everyone else's life is perfect...except yours?"


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## berkeleyp

So many tears reading the last week's worth of posts. Wilkers - your letter to Connor was amazing. I bawled reading it. i guess that's why i come here -to allow myself to cry and to not feel so alone. Thank you for sharing so much on this thread.


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## Persephone

My mom's first was a stillborn. She was young (26), healthy, did everything right, and her baby (girl) was healthy up til the point of labor. She went into labor naturally, had no drugs (this was in the 70s), used Lamaze, and gave birth to a stillborn. No one knows why. My mom showed me the autopsy report, and there was no real reason. It's just one of those unexplainable things that happens. They named her Jennifer Lynn. She's buried in MI next to my mom's side of the family. Four years later, they ended up having me. And 7 years after that, they had my brother. She got pg on the first try with all of us. So there is hope. I don't know how she dealt with the grief or the fear... it all happened before I was born, and my mom isn't one to show emotional pain anyway. It took her 4 years to ttc again, so there must have been some healing going on. But I wanted you to know that there is another story like yours out there... and my mom's faith also helped her through a lot. She says that Jennifer is up in heaven with her brother's stillborn daughter, and they're happy together, and waiting for her. *Hugs*. It takes a long time to get over it. Don't rush it.


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## iris0110

Oh Wilkers, yep I feel that way alot. The day my sister-in-law delivered her daughter I felt that way. We were supposed to deliver our babies together. But I know no one else has a perfect life. I know my sister in law miscarried her baby and had to deal with infertility before concieving this child. But still I feel like it isn't fair.

My period started yesterday, and it was two days late. The strange thing is, when it was late I thought to myself "no I can't get pregnant this month." and I was glad when it started. I realized that I didn't want to get pregnant before you did. Partially because it only seemed fair that you should get pregnant first, but also because I am really looking forward to going through this with you. So lets hope that next month yields







for both of us.


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## wilkers8

berkeleyp...thank you. Hearing such a positive response to that post makes me know that my emotions of how I was feeling really did get expressed.

persephone...If you don't mind, I have a question for you. As a sibling to a stillborn child, do have any feelings towards this sibling? I have a great concern...ok, fear...that our future children will not ever feel anything towards Connor. That Connor will be considering this "thing" that mom/dad have an obsessed need to recognize/mourn during holidays and on 3/17. I know we will have pictures, etc to share but will they be in the same viewpoint as anyone else who's never lost a child? When asked, do you say you have a sister but she passed away? If this is too personal, please don't feel obligated to respond.

iris0110...thanks for sharing something that makes me feel a little less like a heel due to my emotions. I don't think there's anything fair in who gets pregnant first, but I will admit too that although I was sad to hear your period started...a part of me too was really looking forward to going through this together. Already starting making deals, etc for this month to work for us both









In regards to ttc, I have to admit that it's frustrating to know that you are doing exactly what you did last month but it didn't work. My personality automatically thinks that we didn't do something or do something right that should be corrected for this month in order to be successful. I went from thinking there is no way we won't get pregnant last month to now thinking I'm probably not going to be pregnant this month either. I know I should be thinking positive but what has "thinking positive" really provided me. I still lost Connor. I wasn't pregnant last month. The fact is what I'm thinking doesn't amount to much. Granted I am not going to be overly negative (ok, at least try) to not overstress myself but removing the stress although is just not really an option. Plus, I was highly stressed with work when we got pregnant with Connor so maybe stress actually helps my fertility.

My husband and I are discussing when we should go see my friend and her daughter. There is a huge part of me that is absolutely terrified that when I see this little girl, I will lose my mind, cry uncontrollably, never want to let the baby go, not want to touch the baby, etc. This doesn't even cover the emotions I'm sure that I will have...sadness, jealously, happiness, etc.

The base of the problem and with all honesty...I'm so jealous that I can't see straight. I've always been able to account for things that other people had and I didn't in some way that had a positive impact on me. For example, those with loving fathers...well, I became a very independent (financially self-supporting) woman that would never be stuck in a bad relationship. Those with college/wedding bills paid for...well, I have the pride that I did this myself against all of the odds. Those with nice homes/cars, I've worked to be able to have these things for/by myself. However, I have no answer to the feeling I have when I look at others who have never lost a child. This is not something that with time or hard work will ever be fixed/removed...I will always be missing one of my children (I hope not more than one). Yet when I look at others, they have all of their children and I can't help being so jealous. I would trade everything in my life for just that innocence of having all of my children with me. I try to look at it from different perspectives (like understanding a part of motherhood that most never know) but most of the time this brings such little comfort. However, I don't have any choice in this. I just don't know how to let go of the jealously.

Question of the day: Have any of you been able to let go of the jealously? If so, HOW?


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## Changed

Hi there, I found this thread and read the whole thing. Not sure why until now. I know you didn't ask me but I'd like to share. I am the sib or a stillborn child. My mom had him long before my sister, brother or myself. She was only 16. She never talked about it. We found out from a family member and it was not until I was pregnant for the first time that I asked her about this child (thought I knew from about age 6 on). I grieved alot as I learned the details. I couldn't stand the pain that my mom went through for all these years alone. I hated the idea that she kept himvca secret from us. She never went to his grave not once. He was born at 40+ weeks and buried while she was still in the hospital. She never saw him, no one did. The is alot of confustion of why he passed away. The docs told her one thing and my family another? When I was pregnant with my 2nd daughter I found and visited his grave alone, took flowers. I understand why she never visited but I wanted to be sure that his grave was cared for. All I could think is how must this child looking down must feel knowing that his mother never mentioned him? Never celebrated him only cried on his birthday. Never shared him with us. Never visited his grave.

Please share this with your children! This loss is not only yours.


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## iris0110

Wilkers: TTCing is a really hard thing. I never knew before how hard it could be. I just had this feeling I wouldn't get to concieve last month, what with Ds refusing to sleep well. I am still hoping that this month will be better for both of us. I can't wait to stop bleeding so I can start trying again. This time I am going to make sure we have time, even if we have to sneek out of bed at three AM. (I am begining to feel like we are teenagers worried about getting caught) I will definately be keeping my fingers crossed that it will happen for both of us this month. I am really hoping that we can go through this together.

As far as jealousy goes, I don't think you ever truly get past it. I know I still feel jealous alot. I hate that so many celebrities have had babies recently. It makes me so mad. And then I was talking to my friend the other day and she was telling me about her cousin who has a four month old little girl, and every day she has to call some one to come get the baby because she can't stand taking care of it. It was so awful. My friend is worried that her cousin will hurt her baby, and I was trying to give her good ideas, but the whole time I was thinking "she doesn't deserve that baby, some one should take her away and take care of her." i know this girl is probably just suffering from PPD and would otherwise be a good mama, but i just couldn't help being jealous. And then to make matters worse, the cousin turned up with her baby and a couple of friends. One of her friends had to hold her baby the whole time she was over because she wouldn't touch her. Then Ds tried to take the baby and give her to me. Can I just tell you my heart was breaking.







I mean here is this four month old baby girl who never did anything to anyone, and her mother won't even hold her. And I want nothing more than to have my daughter here alive so I can take care of her. And then there is my poor little Ds who knows his mommy is sad because his baby sister died, so his solution is to take some one elses baby to give to me to make me happy again. Oh you should have seen the way he looked at that baby. It was like he fell in love with her on the spot. He wanted to keep her so badly and it broke my heart to pieces.
















So there you go I am guilty of very jealous and mean thoughts.


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## wilkers8

my_hearts_light...thank you. Thank you so much!

My friend asked me question months ago; she asked "did you have any feeling that this was going to happen". I immediately said not until the night before we found out there was no heartbeat. She asked because she realized that she hadn't bought anything for the baby yet and was wondering if she knew (we've known each other since we were 10 and although I didn't think about it until she said something, it was strange that she hadn't bought something for the baby yet). I think this question has been haunting me a little. At first, I just tried to dismiss it but the truth is I think it might be haunting me because I ignored the signs...a woman's intuition.

For instance, my friend who was due five days after me always asked the question "what should we do this summer while we're off"...now that I think about it, I never really wanted to answer that question. At the time, I just thought it was because it seemed so far away.

I also was planning on having a conversation with my mom to inform her that our wishes were to never have my father left alone with the baby but I just kept putting it off. I thought it was because I didn't want to deal with my mom on the topic but the truth is I knew she would be expecting this conversation.
Then I can't even count the number of times I replied to a question with "I know it wouldn't really hurt anything but if something were to happen, I wouldn't want to deal with the what if". I thought I was just using this as an excuse.

I completely forgot about signing up for prenatal classes until my friend mentioned that she had been booked for a while. I told myself that I didn't think about it yet since it seemed early to book the classes but this is completely opposite of my personality. I'm extremely organized and tend to do things as early as possible (I only booked the class a couple of weeks prior to losing Connor).

We hadn't purchased "the going home clothes" for the baby yet. In truth, I didn't have a desire to do this (we had purchased a first toy for Connor). I thought this was because we didn't know the sex but I shouldn't I have just wanted to buy something for both.

We also knew that if we wanted to have our baby baptized that traditionally you have to attend the church for at least three months prior to delivery. We had been putting this decision off until the last possible second. I told myself this was because neither of us had been going to church for a long time (holiday Catholic).

And then there is the thing that I didn't tell a single person...including my husband. The night I took the HPT for Connor, we got a faint second line. I had my husband also pee on an HPT in order to see a "control" test, which meant I had one test left in the box. The next morning I went to the doctor's office and had my blood drawn to verify my pregnancy. When I got home, I wanted to see the line be darker so I took the last HPT test. Only it came back negative. I was extremely nervous that I had received a false positive but then the doctor called in an hour with the "congrats, you're pregnant" call. So I didn't really think about this again (I knew you could dilute your pee and cause a negative test). However, now this really stands out in my mind. I have talked to many people, who kept taking HPT just to see that yes indeed they were pregnant and kept getting the positive result. Here I was getting a negative after the positive. I can't help but think...was this a sign that Connor wouldn't stay with us?

I completely realize that all of this is a matter of interpretation and had the ending been different, I probably wouldn't even think twice about any of this. Yet the ending is what it is and these are just some of the things that stand out in my mind. So as I try to be completely honest when answering the question "did you have any feeling that this was going to happen"...I don't know.

Question of the day: Did you have any feeling that you wouldn't be raising your child?


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## AP Momma

I've been following this journal and feeling the pain of each of you. Each of us has a unique loss but I can relate to the raw emotions being put forth.

We have lost two second trimester babies. Timothy was born 1/21/01 at 20 weeks due to a placenta abruption. He lived for 52 short minutes. It was absolutely heart wrenching to hold our tiny son and watch his heart slow until he passed away in our arms not being able to do anything to comfort him other than hold, rock and tell him just how much we love him.

Our daughter was 3 at the time and it was awful having to tell her that her brother died. A child shouldn't have to deal with death at such a tender age. It was difficult to grieve having a child to take care of. On one hand she is the reason I got out of bed each day, otherwise I may still be under the covers hiding from the world. On the other hand it was so hard to not have the time to grieve Timothy on my own terms. A 3 year old needs a Momma to be there so I had to fake my way through the day as best I could. Continuing to make her life normal by attending our playgroups and taking her to the park. It put me back into the world of pregnant bellies and new babies much too soon. I'm not trying to suggest that having a living child is more difficult or less difficult when grieving a loss. Just sharing my story.

We went on to concieve another daughter one year after losing Timothy. We may have concieved on his birthday. I like to think of my toddler as a birthday gift from her brother.

9 months after the birth of my second daughter we conceived Matthew. Matthew was stillborn at 20 weeks also due to a placenta abruption. The 4th of July will mark 6 months since we lost our dear baby boy. To endure that loss twice was almost more than I could bare. It's amazing to me that I am actually up and walking around like a normal member of society. At the end of the day when I fall into bed I often wonder how I made it through another day.

For those of you still fresh in your loss it does get easier. I promise it does get easier to talk about your babies without falling to pieces. You will have milestones moments like being able to walk past the baby isle in Walmart or Target and not have to leave because you are crying uncontrolably. You can see a boy get his first haircut and not be so jealous that his parents are able to have that experience.

You will someday be able to see a pregnant Mom and not want to hate with all of your being. I tried to realize that each of those Moms may have their own share of losses. I know woman see me and my beautiful girls and probably hate me not knowing the losses and pain that I've endured to get here. We don't know if that pregnant Mom suffered multiple miscarriages or lost her first born baby. I try my hardest to believe that each of those Moms is cherishing her baby.

Some things will not change though. You will never ever forget. We talk about our boys quite often. If anyone asks how many children we have my 6 year old will answer 2 princess girls and 2 boys in our hearts.

When counting heads I still picture my boys. I can't look at my girls without seeing my boys at the age they would be now. Everytime I see a 3 year old boy I think about Timothy and envision him with my girls. Matthew was due in May so he would only be 6 weeks now. I find myself envisioning taking 4 kids to the grocery store. Recently I saw a Mom taking her 4 kids out of her minivan and by coincidence they happened to be approximately the ages my entire clan would be if they were all here now. I was absolutely dumbstruck and just stood in the middle of the parking lot and stared at this family. I couldn't help myself. It wasn't until afterwards that I realized this Mom probably thought I was a nut job since I was by myself staring from the time she unloaded everyone out of the car to when she disappeared into the grocery store.

At Christmas last year I was on bedrest with Matthew hoping to make it to 30 weeks to give him a good shot at being healthy. Laying there on the couch I watched my girls ripping open presents so grateful to have them but still even 3 years later wishing Timmy was there besides them. This year hopefully we will be weeks away from delivering another baby (I'm due Jan 10) but it will still be bittersweet as I remember laying there doing all that I could to wish the bleeding to stop. This would be Matty's first Christmas. It does get easier with time. But it is still really, really hard.

For Timothy's due date we released ballons and planted a tree along our favorite family walking trail. We did some serious mileage on that trail so it seemed fitting to plant it there. Then we went to lunch at the beach, I have always found comfort in the ocean. I chose to celebrate his birthday quietly. DH and I talk about our baby boy and remember him on his day.

For Matthew's due date DH attended the Hospitals Memorial Service for Miscarried and Stillbirth babies. I just wasn't ready to go. I went at another time to say my goodbyes. DH said there were close to 70 people there mostly couples. We chose to have both boys cremated. Timmy is in CA and Matty is with the other lost babies in the Memorial garden here in NH. I feel good about the choice we made about their remains.

When we bought our house we planted trees for each of our children. We still haven't found the perfect tree for Matthew but his will be planted before summers end.

I guess I just felt compelled to share my story since I've been reading about your children. I didn't want to just lurk.

Health and Healing physically and mentally for all the Mommas that need it.

Kris


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## wilkers8

AP_Momma...you said a number of things that really have made me think. First, seeing a pregnant woman today I didn't immediately hate her...instead, I wondered if she was enduring a subsequent pregnancy after loss. I had compassion instead of hate/jealously...I might have to continue to think this about pregnant woman and moms with children. Second, the comment regarding a birthday gift from her brother. We were in the midst of trying during Connor's due date and then I realized this would mean a due date would be near his anniversary date. At first this scared me but when I saw your words it made feel more like conceiving this month would be a gift from/to Connor. Somehow it made me feel like our next child would be staying with us. Last, overall reassurance. A big fear of mine is that we will just keep losing our babies and I don't know how I will handle losing another. To hear of your story and the strength that you've displayed as well as to hear about your two little girls..gives me hope that I could handle it...that one day we will have children in this home.

I found out that I won't receive the results of the test for a couple of weeks not a couple of days (for determining if I have APS). This is so annoying. I'm on the edge of my seat wanting to know if my chances of having a baby next go around are reduced. I guess it doesn't really matter in that if it comes back positive, we'll still be doing what we are doing now. But boy would I love to have a little peace of mind if the test comes back negative. I'm not bothering to wish for it...I guess I'm saving my wishes for when I see that positive HPT but I do long for a little peace of mind.

I guess this peace of mind is very desired given that we might have been successful this month. I've found myself lately imagining that I'm pregnant again. What will it be like? What I will be doing differently? What will some of the activities I will start doing once we know we're pregnant? These will be a little random but they include...Ordering a baby beat with a heart rate reader and recorder. Starting to open the nursery and even rethinking having an actual nursery theme (we boycotted this before). Making final decisions about Connor's ashes and belongings (right now, everything is sitting in the nursery and it will symbolize accepting Connor's death while allowing myself to accept another child). In addition, Pete and I have noticed an increase in everything related to babies lately. He's been watching Stargate SG1 for a long time now but this weekend they had an ultrasound picture of an eldest son on the show. This was the third show that we were just in amazement that there was another baby reference. I'm trying to make myself believe that this is a sign that we might be pregnant. Otherwise, I might have to go freakin postal.

In the meantime, we took another huge step this weekend...we went to visit my friend and her beautiful daughter today. Upon walking into their home, there was baby stuff everywhere...tears immediately came to my eyes because I knew all of my baby stuff was behind a closed door and not needed. Then my friend came out of her bedroom with her daughter. I had decided in the car that I would try to hold the baby right away, so that's what I did. So what did I think/feel...Connor didn't feel that much smaller than she did (even though there was a six inch difference and a five pound difference). I was happy to meet her but immediately I was upset because there was no baby in my friend's arms for her to meet. Connor would never have play dates with this little girl. My friend would never get to hold my son. I was afraid of having a newborn look at me but even when she looked directly into my eyes...I knew I still longed for having my own child look at me. This is what I saw as I watched my friend rock her little girl. I'm glad I didn't put this off. After seeing her I know that she will be a very important little girl to me...but that doesn't stop me from longing for my son. From wishing that I had someone keeping me up all night long. From wishing that our baby stuff was throughout the house and not behind a closed door. The bottom line is I could hold a million newborns but until I hold MY CHILD my arms will remain empty. My friend was wonderful. I sat there and sobbed and when I looked at her for fear that she would be hurt...she was crying. I absolutely hate that something that should have been so wonderful was so heartbreaking. Part of me is glad it's over because I really did miss seeing her but there is a part of me that is still extremely jealous. I don't know how to get past these feelings but since seeing that beautiful little girl...I know I will in time (ok, maybe not completely but enough to be normal again). It's amazing how exhausted you can feel from the pain and then you're even more tired from making progress.

Question of the day: Is the anticipation worse for everyone else also?


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## iris0110

Wilkers- yes, the anticipation always seems worse than the actual event for me. And I cried reading this, because it is the same way it was for me, meeting my niece for the first time. I remember holding her and thinking my SIL should be holding Arawyn right now, and we should be comparing how the girls are alike, and how many hours of sleep we are missing out on. And I remember that same feeling of these babies were supposed to grow up together but now they won't.







for you and also







: for a







for both of us this month. Dh and I will start trying again tonight so you and I may both be on our way here soon.


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## SweetTeach

AP Mama, thank you for posting your story. You've truly touched me *here*.

Wilkers, I'm glad that you were finally able to go see your friend and her daughter. Yes, the anticipation has been worse than the actual event almost every time now. It will probably get easier from here on with your friend and her daughter.


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## HaveWool~Will Felt

AP Mama...thank you for sharing your story...I so can relate to what you shared about your grief while having other children to love and care for. It is so hard...THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU...
You have touched me and I am sure many others.

Wilkers...Thank you to you also for sharing with us about visiting your friends new baby girl. How hard it was for you....







And still is. What courage you have displayed....

Love to you all....


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## Mamid

Wilkers: it sounds as if you're starting to live again.

One thing I noticed when it comes to death of a loved one, sooner or later a baby will break the mourning cycle. And not necessarily your own child either. A baby or small child will warm the heart and start the healing process. I don't know how they do it, but they do. It works especially well in an elderly person who has lost the love of their life.

I think seeing the child shows the mourner that life does go on.

Cause it does....


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## wilkers8

So the year is half over. How I remember how desperately I wanted it just to be 2005 and now we're half way there. It's funny how the last three months can seem to fly by yet feel like the longest three months of my life. I'm not sure how that happens or how to really explain it but this is what I feel.

My results are still not in from the APS test. I absolutely detest how long this crap takes. I'm trying to not think about it so I don't drive myself crazy but I just want the freakin results (boy, feeling a little deja vu here).

When this week I had a fairly big revelation...as I talked to my one friend this week, she was complaining about people announcing their pregnancies. As I listened to her anger/frustration, you could have sworn that I was the one speaking...the one with the loss. That's when it really hit me...she talks to me as this was her loss also. She tells me how much pain this has caused her, not just in sympathy for me but for what she's lost. I assumed that my feelings of completely not being concerned with hurting her during my grief were from the duration of our friendship (about 17 years) but as I recall our many previous conversations, she's always been angry that Connor's not here. Not only angry because I'm sad/hurting but because she is hurting from the loss of Connor. I think this is why I've found so much comfort in her conversations, the feeling that other people are grieving not just for me but for their loss of Connor is...well, I don't think I can put it into words. I'm sure other people may have felt this also but she's been the most vocal about it.

Any day now we will be finding out if we were successful this month, which makes me just want to feel better. I'm been having dreams that I'm pregnant. I hope I'm not setting myself for another failed attempt! Although, is it even possible to not be disappointed regardless.

Question of the day: Do any of you make up pregnancy symptoms in your head for pure hope that the HPT will be positive?


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## wilkers8

I'm still in disbelief but it happened...a second line on that HPT displayed this morning! I have already gone in to get a blood test to confirm and the results have confirmed that I'm pregnant.

So as indicated earlier this will be the marker of the final post in this thread. I will be opening a new journal, which will intertwine both Connor and this new baby. I can't begin to thank each of you enough for all of the support and answers that you've provided me. I look forward to sharing the next stage with each of you as well. You've all been open and honest with me and to have support from people, who I know understand what I'm thinking/feeling is invaluable.

So what do I write in the last post...I thought it best to write to Connor again (it was so comforting the last time).

Connor,

This morning, mommy and daddy found out that you're a big brother. You'll notice that I didn't say "going to be a big brother", as I haven't forgotten the lesson you taught me that yesterday marked the day I found out that I'm a mother of two children.

I don't know if this baby is a girl or a boy but knowing your daddy's family line, the baby is probably a little boy. I always waited for that mother's intuition on whether you were a boy or a girl but I never really had it. So it's likely that we won't know again until the day I deliver this baby.

As you can see from how I'm wording things such as the day I deliver, I'm trying very hard to be positive that this baby will stay with us. However, I'll be very honest with you...this baby brings so many emotions for your daddy and I. We are will forever be dealing with the heartbreak of not having you here with us that the fear of this happening again is a little overwhelming. So if you have any pull, I would love for you to help make sure this baby stays with us.

I haven't forgotten about my promise to you regarding making sure this baby knows who you are. In fact, one of the first things I said to the baby was "We are so happy to have you with us. This family has been waiting for you. You have a wonderful loving father, who would do just about anything to be there for you. You have a beautiful older brother, Connor that passed away a few months ago...you will be hearing a ton about him. Thanks to him, I know that I too am a wonderful loving mother." I was worried about whether this baby would be able to fully understand how much we love you and what a critical part of my life you are but then I realized...this baby will have this journal to read.

I have already made a promise to this baby that regardless of my fear that I will cherish each moment that I have. This means that I will have to focus a little less on my pain of losing you in order to allow time and energy towards the new baby. This doesn't mean in the slighest that I love you any less. In fact, I believe that this baby will only help me realize how much more I love you than I even thought. In some ways, I am feeling a little like a normal mom right now as I would guess this is what most moms deal with when they bring a second child into the world. Not with the pain of loss but balancing their time and energy between both children.

The truth is...I need you more than anything now. I don't know if I ever believed in feeling the support from people who have passed away but I think it's time I start. There are going to be days that the terror is almost too much...will you be at my side? There are going to be days that I long to be explaining a new baby to you...will you hear me anyway? There are going to be days that I will inevitably wonder why you are not with me...will you be sending me warm signals? The day that will likely be the toughest is the day we deliver this baby...will you be watching and helping us through this?

Please try to understand that having another child so soon is not an attempt to replace you. That's impossible. This was also not an attempt to mask, ignore or cover up the pain from losing you. Mommy & Daddy just really want to have a baby in our home. We will never quite understand why you were meant to be with us but we have agreed to move on with life. Just realize that moving on with life still includes you. You will always be our first born child. You will always be our eldest son. Most importantly, you will always be loved by this family as our sweet little baby boy.

On a completely side note, I know that we haven't done anything with your ashes yet. Please understand that this is the one major thing that we have to do for you and we don't want to make a mistake. I am making the promise to you that we will continue to try to determine what's best, so if you could find a way to send a signal of what you would like...I would really appreciate it. I'm leaning towards doing something the day of my birthday, which would mark exactly six months since losing you.

I Love You with all of my heart and soul,
Mommy

---------------
No last question for this thread...just a big thank you!


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## catmuse11

Wilkers8,

I just want to say thank you for sharing your story with the world.

I lost my baby girl 10 days ago at 38 weeks & I've never known such heartache, frustration, anger, denial, support, and even, at times, beauty. A dear friend of mine printed out your forum and gave it to me two days after my daughter's birth. I became addicted to it and I couldn't wait to find out what would happen to you--I think I began to see you as a version of myself, fast-forwarded three months. So, I can't even begin to tell you how happy I was for you (and, in a strange way, myself too) when I read your post today. CONGRATULATIONS!


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## HaveWool~Will Felt

catmuse...I am so sorry about your loss...







I lost my daughter at 37 week in March...so sorry honey...much love to you...

WILKERS....I am so happy for you....I am so excited that I can hardly see straight...Connor...mama's pregnant and you are going to have a sibling soon...it is going to be so exciting....























I have the chills all over as I am writing this...Wilkers, love you honey...be gentle and patient with yourself...

I want to see pictures every four weeks...ok???

love, Jackie


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## behr

Congratulations Wilkers8!!

I too have been following your story, thanks for sharing it. I'm sending you loads of positive energy and will definitely be thinking of your little family a lot.


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## applejuice

{[(







)]}

I have never had a m/c, but I have had more than my fair share of other tragedies.

There is an







in heaven waiting to be mothered when you have finished mothering on this earth.

G-D bless and keep you and your DH strong.


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## applejuice

Congratulations on your new









G-D bless.


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## iris0110

Wilkers







COGRATULATIONS I don't think I have ever been so happy to hear that some one was pregnant in my whole life. I am so happy for you. I am still







: to join you this month. But even if I don't I want you to know that I am definately here to support you. Wow I am really hoping for a super







baby for you. Congrats mama you deserve this.


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## Changed

OHHHH! Congratulations!!!! I'm so happy for you. You are such a wonderful mother already. My sister lost her first baby at 11 weeks on Sunday and I though of you. I'm so glad i've read along and knowing what you've gone through helped me comfort her. You and Connor have touched so many of us. You deserve a wonderful happy sweet healthy baby and you need to know that. Please try not to worry. I know how hard that is to do. Please take good care of yourself!!


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## QueeTheBean

with happiness.

Congratulations, mama!


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## wilkers8

Thank you









Since it applies only to Connor, there is one thing that I want to mention before this thread is completely closed. My husband and I received an email from a friend, who has been traveling Europe (In fact, we were at his going away party the weekend before we lost Connor). He's currently in Ireland and did the most thoughtful thing. He rode his bike to an area named Connor's pass and placed Connor's initials in rocks on a beautiful area. I cried and cried when I read this email. He did such a wonderful job at describing how beautiful the area was and how much he wanted to recognize Connor and our grief. I don't even think I can put into words how much this is appreciated and I just wanted to share this with all of you.

I'm completely crossing my fingers that a few of you will be joining me in pregnancies for this next stage very soon. As I am very aware already of how different this second pregnancy is from the first and will be in serious need of other moms who understand this.

Again, thank you for such supportive words. I've opened a new thread in the sub-forum (Pregnancy After Loss) called First Child Stillborn - Pregnant with Second Child and I would be honored to have all of you continue with me on my journey.

With Love & Deep Appreciation!


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## wilkers8

An update was posted at http://www.mothering.com/discussions...31#post8644731


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