# *Valentines thread for Nov 05 mamas!*



## MelW (Jan 13, 2005)

So here's a new thread for February









And our "old" Feb thread

I'm just home from work, and need to get to bed!


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## Bex80 (Feb 8, 2004)

Well I am glad that I am finally "in the mix" at the beginning instead of straggling in at the middle or end of the month.









Hello!!! I have missed everyone!!!

Welcome, Laurie (eirual). Wow, and now that I just did that I will always remember how to spell your username.







I hope you'll join in, I love these ladies as they are the most accepting group of mamas I know. You come, you go, you post, you take a break...they love you all the same.









Oh! And your Hunter and my Abigail share a birthday.









So. Why am I posting at 3:40 a.m.? I don't know!! My mind just won't stop tonight. Dh is out of town and I just can't rest. I have more to say but if I start it will be pages and pages. In a nutshell---Life is good overall, I've begun therapy to deal with stuff from my past (relationships, how my life as a mother began, etc.) and I am already feeling more optimistic. However, that whole pesky "dealing with your emotions" stuff takes a toll on the heart and the mind so I am just all over the place these days.

I've been trying to prioritize and figure out what's important to me. I've been wearing too many hats, and a lot of them are not authentic to me so lately I've been backtracking and cleaning up old messes and clearing up people's mis-assumptions (is that even a word?) of me.

Enough about me







... this is "Mothering"! How's Abigail? Well let me fill you in!

She walks, she babbles, she talks a bit. She climbs (a lot!), she opens drawers and empties them, she finds things a little bit taller than herself and swings from them, she eats (better than her big brother when he was this age!), she sleeps, she nurses, she hates to be away from me.

I am loving this, all of it. My only regret is that I hadn't been so wrapped up in myself when ds was this age. I was so worried about milestones and proper behaviour and such that I didn't get to enjoy him just learning and playing and experiencing things.

On a lighter note---I want to send out Valentines from the kids...I'm thinking construction paper, I'm thinking paint, I'm thinking 1 handprint from each of them on the same paper? Would be a cute little keepsake and pretty cheap and easy!









Are you guys doing any Valentines? If so, what?

Zjande---Helen mentioned a wedding, is that you? Has this happened yet?

How *is* everybody??


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

I'm actually surprisingly good, considering. I went to a regional NCT training day yesterday, which was insane, but met so many fantastic people and got so many cool ideas, it was wonderful. So I was talking to the team who kept Stroud maternity unit open (this won't seem like a big deal to you, but they are FAMOUS over here. Honestly, it was an absolutely huge campaign because they proved conclusively that closing the birth centre, with it's low transfer, o% caesarean rate would cost the NHS trust tens of thousands of pounds a year more and it's a total false economy.) I got people telling me about the All Wales birth initiative (you'll like this. They're aiming for 10% homebirth by the end of the decade. The girls I talked to, in their district have 8.4% of their babies born at home. Swindon has 1%. That's crap. I have so many ideas of ways in which I can help people do things differently, and different things I want to do, and I'm seriously bouncing. Knackered and starving, but absolutely bouncing up and down, and seriously considering moving the committee meeting forwards so I can bounce with others, rather than by myself.
Oh, and I got to cuddle a teeny weeny 6 week old baby girl







It helped a lot.
I've made some big decisions recently about my future and my career- this week has been an eyeopener for me. There is no way on this planet that I'm working within the NHS as a midwife, I'd rather scrape my eyes out with a blunt spoon. I don't think I can even stand three years in order to qualify, so right now I'm looking at other options (like the NCT) to do the work I wish to do.


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## *Amy* (Jun 16, 2004)

Helen, that is so exciting!! Isn't it a wonderful feeling when you feel like you are on track and doing what you are meant to be doing? I am really happy for you!

Bex, I can understand where you are coming from. It takes a strong person to be that introspective and responsible for their own life, and my guess is that even though things feel a little swimmy right now, it will get easier and easier.









Tonight is the beginning of Phase Two, and it couldn't come at a better time. Last night she slept for ~3 hours in her bed, and then was up about every 45 minutes afterwards (and yes, that was when she was in bed with us). I was dying. DIE. ING. So tonight, we are going to do options 1 and 3, which were to keep her in her own bed at her first waking and verbally soothe her back into sleep, and then pick her up at her second waking. We're also going to go ahead with transitioning her into her bed at naptimes as well rather than letting her fall asleep on the boob and then put her down in the Amby, which is our usual routine. I am so desperate for her to stop waking every 45 to 90 effing minutes; this morning I got out of bed and said, "Can I tender my resignation?" GAH! I just keep hoping hoping hoping.

Speaking of hoping, DH has three follow-up interviews in the next week or so. Two are in Michigan (Detroit and Kalamazoo), which, no thanks. The third is in AUSTIN! So please keep all of your fingers and toes crossed for that one!

I think Aubrey did get married, but I can't remember the date. And I'm sure they are making sweet sweet love trying to conceive #4!


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## SoulJourney (Sep 26, 2005)

Just quickly stepping in to sub! I love you guys!!!


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Bex80, can you PM me your address? There was a fantastic article in one of the UK parenting mags last issue on parenting your inner child, and I think you'd find it interesting.
Amy, I really hope she sleeps. Skye started doing better when we drugged her with a cup of warm milk at bedtime- but really, the big consolation I have to offer is:
at this age, Alex was sleeping for 6 hours a night. Tops. 30 minute chunks, generally, and nothing we could do would break it. No signs of sleep deprivation during the day, either.
NOW? Into bed and asleep at 7.30pm, up at 7am except on weekends, when he has a lie-in. It can change.


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Amy I so hope that Brynn starts sleeping a little better for you.
I'm a little ashamed to admit that the only thing keeping me awake at night is myself. Winter hasn't woken in the middle of the night for over 6 months. I swear, he is a perfect angel.
My due date is tomorrow.


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## MelW (Jan 13, 2005)

Here's a laugh so hard you might get the baby out link for you DID (and I hope you don't mind me dredging this one up, FSM):
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=374071

I'm glad your training went so well, Helen. I've considered midwifery on and off and also decided that it wasn't the right choice for me (at least for now). Crappy on-call lifestyle, mostly.


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

: It's hard to imagine us all waiting patiently for our babies, considering how old they are now. Weird, isn't it?


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## kaspirant (Apr 28, 2006)

Mel--OMG those are funny. I missed the GET OUT feeling stage with mine, and boy do I wish I had found you ladies sooner! Jacob was *due* in January of 2006. My water broke October 17th and I had 32 days of hospitalized bedrest praying my bean would stay in. It was soo scary! He was born at 33 weeks and was the healthiest baby in the NICU!! (granted if I had been on mothering then I'd be in the Jan DDC and I'm so happy here!!)

DiD -- Happy Due Day!! Prayers for a happy healthy baby and a wonderful birth!!

*Amy* Yay for sleep! I hope everything continues to go smoothly and you can find the peaceful sleeping arrangements you need! Fingers crossed for AUSTIN for you..but can't you find something in StLouis?!?! That's where we are moving next summer!

Oohh Bex! -- I'm so in the same place you are as far as dealing with me! You should feel free to share...mothering isn't just about our kids you know...it's about us too. I deal constantly with the pain of my past...and it's so scary. *hugs* to you mama for facing the monster and overcoming!!
She sounds like she is doing a lot of the same things that Jacob is doing...I'm so glad I learned now to love and enjoy the little things...for goodness sake the other day we spent 5 minutes feeling the grass. It was amazing~!!

Zjande -- Okay okay...we want details. You said Jan 29th...Spill woman!! Seriously though...I'm on pins and needles. I want to know how everything went and see if there are any awesome things I should steal







:

Now for us...

Okay so for anyone who missed it...here is my Wedding Website
I'm still working on it, but it is turning out so well, I really wanted to share. We got engagement pictures on the beach and I LOVE LOVE LOVE my photographer she took NIP pictures while Jacob was nursing! All of that and some odds and ends about me can be found there. Everyone is welcome to sign my guestbook there too..the more the merrier









We probably won't do valentines this year...Jacob's DCP is a Jehovah's witness..so she doesn't celebrate any holidays..I wouldn't want to cause any problems /shrug. We are going to take out my best friend and her hubby and their daughter. We lovingly joke that Jacob and K are going to get married...so he is gonna take her out to Rainforest Cafe and treat her to a nice dinner out! It will be fun and great to spend the day with friends!

Okay I am determined to keep Nov 05 at the top of the Toddler forum this month...I'm a busy woman so you guys better help


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## spiritmomma (Aug 29, 2005)

wow! we are some chatty mamas this month!









just subbing for now, I'll be checking in later...


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## Queen of Cups (Aug 29, 2003)

Subbing!


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## Phoenix_Rising (Jun 27, 2005)

Helen - I am sending so many hugs your way. Please know that you are in my thoughts.

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Amy** 
Susannah, that picture was actually taken back in October, so she was probably around 10 months old! I think it's all the hair she still had back then, before I gave it a good cut.

Y'all, I'm in the worst mood the past couple of days. My period is REALLY affecting me, and I don't like it.







I was hardly talking to DH or Brynn last night and was having thoughts like, "Do you have to chew so *loudly*??" UGH! And even though I would say we are still making progress with the sleep routine (she will definitely get into bed while awake and fall asleep within a couple of minutes, without crying), she's still waking up SO MUCH during the rest of the night. Tomorrow night will be 14 days, so I think we are going to "take it to the next level" as DH said and get serious about keeping her in bed after her first wake up, and then bring her into bed after her second waking. But I feel like crap today.







:

*Amy* - let me tell you I am sure jealous of all that beautiful hair








Keagan's hair has FINALLY started to grow and there are cute ringlets - people keep asking me when I am going to cut it; say that he will start looking like a girl. Grrrr. Can't he just be cute? Why can only girls be cute and have curls?








Oh - and that whole mood thing - have you tried Hyland's PMS formula? It is fabulous!



Bex80 said:


> So. Why am I posting at 3:40 a.m.? I don't know!! My mind just won't stop tonight. Dh is out of town and I just can't rest. I have more to say but if I start it will be pages and pages. In a nutshell---Life is good overall, I've begun therapy to deal with stuff from my past (relationships, how my life as a mother began, etc.) and I am already feeling more optimistic. However, that whole pesky "dealing with your emotions" stuff takes a toll on the heart and the mind so I am just all over the place these days.
> 
> I've been trying to prioritize and figure out what's important to me. I've been wearing too many hats, and a lot of them are not authentic to me so lately I've been backtracking and cleaning up old messes and clearing up people's mis-assumptions (is that even a word?) of me.
> 
> ...


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## Gunter (May 5, 2005)

i need to go back and read but just wanted to pop in for a hello!

ez has had that stomach virus thing since thursday. she threw up for the last time this morning, hopefully! she is actually eating more than mama's milk as of today, too. the one upside is that every linen in our house has been washed in the past four days (b/c it was either puked on or shit on!) and is now clean! oh, yeah, and half of our clothes are all clean and in the closets, now, too after going through the same test as the linens. i am just so thankful that she is better. ez is a lean babe with few ounces to spare. she's about 18 pounds on a heavy day.

dh and i had the same thing about two weeks ago. now, i have a wicked cough and sore throat. this past year, i have gotten so many bugs and sickies. ugh!

i started a blog a while back. it's embarrassingly boring though.

last tuesday was my 29th birthday. i have spent too many hours watching "frontier house" in it's entirety. i got the dvd set for my birthday; no tv here so i missed it whenever it was on pbs. but totally devoured it when i heard about the project. how fun. i still am romantic about it all. i lived in montana years, ago. dh and i were all lusty about going back there while we were watching the dvd!

happy february!


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## Queen of Cups (Aug 29, 2003)

Ellie is just too cute!

She seems to be having some kind of a major growth spurt, she's been nursing constantly the last few days. Still eats great, too - my kids have healthy appetites! I just have to say, though, that the diapers the day after she eats 3-4 clementine oranges really gross me out. Poo should not be citrusy-fresh. Gag!


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Can't sympathise, Jen, Skye refuses to touch any kind of citrus fruit. Or tomatoes, which makes me wonder about allergies. TBH, though, I think she's acquiring her daddy's pickiness. I hope the growth spurt ends soon- I wonder what she's going to do next?
Gunter, I hope Ezra gets better soon. Sick kids aren't fun, especially if you're still getting better yourself.
Susannah, when are you going to come play in yarn crafts? Keagan sounds adorable- I love those baby kisses.
DiD, I owe you an induction. Skye was born after a combination of FSM's induction recipe, Mary Cronk's induction recipe and you declaring that you were SURE my waters had broken. You may have been wrong, but it still got the baby out







(I'm happy to share Mary's, btw. She's the independent midwife we were about to book with, with Skye. It's a doozie- just stretch and sweep and castor oil, but I laughed until I dilated.)


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## Awaken (Oct 10, 2004)

Subbing. Be back later. Looks like a lot has happened already in our new thread!!


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

It's my due date today mamas. I'm 40 weeks. I managed to not wake up and cry into my pillow. I haven't had my morning cup of coffee yet but hey, I think we're off to a good start.


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## *Amy* (Jun 16, 2004)

Awww Mama. Can't be too much longer now. I mean, two weeks max, right?







Sorry DiD, you know I love you!!


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## kaspirant (Apr 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DreamsInDigital* 
It's my due date today mamas. I'm 40 weeks. I managed to not wake up and cry into my pillow. I haven't had my morning cup of coffee yet but hey, I think we're off to a good start.









Happy Due Date day!!! Mama, your bundle of joy will be here before you know it!!!


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Hope you pop soon, DiD!

Susannah - Rowan does exactly the same thing blowing kisses. It's still cute









QofC - I hear you on the citrusy fresh poop. Only for us, it's blueberry poop.

I am exhausted after the weekend. I took Rowan out for coffee and a walk yesterday with some friends. It was raining so I bundled her up in her rain gear and stuck her in the stroller (she hates the rain cover on the stroller). She was fine for a while then I think she got really tired and just started crying and I couldn't find enough fun things to point out to her to distract her, so I ended up making a break for home at a run. She cried the whole way home and I felt like such an idiot for not bringing a sling - there was no way I could carry her all that way - and as it turns out, she was just really, really tired and wouldn't have been happy being carried anyway. She kept crying until I smucked her on a boob and then she fell asleep instantly. She slept for 3 hours (with some additional boobie intervention) so she must have been just wiped. Poor little bug. Bad mama.

But I made the BEST sourdough pancakes for breakfast yesterday. Mmmmm.... I am getting back into my sourdough hobby. I've got bread on the go but I don't know if the starter is strong enough yet. We'll see.


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## Bex80 (Feb 8, 2004)

Happy due date DID!!














I hope she lets you off the hook and makes her debut soon.

Thanks foe the encouragement about therapy. It only took me 2 years to get up the courage to go again. I went for a while in college and it was a good experience but a lot has happened since then.









Anyone is welcome to the Valentine's Day idea. I did that one when Austin was 1 and it was great. I used some fancy scissors around the edge to make a "border"... you know those scrapbooking kind of shears?

I second the citrus dipes. With Austin it was mandarin oranges, they also gave him a wicked rash. With Abigail it's craisins. Oh, and once she ate a lot of raisins and I guess they sort of reconstituted in her bowels because they looked like small grapes when they showed up at the other end!









So exciting, those of you getting married/already now married!

Sarah, would you mind sharing that pancake recipe? Just the name sounds delish!

Amy, I sure do hope that Brynn gets the hang of phase 2 asap. It sounds like you are truly wiped out and ready for regular sleep again. Abigail just started sleeping through around her first birthday.

Helen, I am excited for you because you sound so excited! Does this mean that the standards for birth/homebirth will change where you live? I am guessing that NHS is national Health Care? Please forgive me if I'm wrong.







I am so embarassed to ask, but are you working now? Would midwifery be a change or do you already work in healthcare?

How do you all do your "internet" time? I am getting frustrated because I am finding that I have to do more and more while dd naps and now she's on the brink of cutting naps from 2 to 1. When bedtime comes, I just want to go to sleep myself. Dh is working mad hours, 8-7 and then more from home after playing with the kids for half an hour. I am BEAT!!

But during the day I need a respite here and there and whenever I sit down, Abigail wants to nurse (acrobatically) and I can hardley comprehend what I've read, much less form a reasonable reply.


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## barcelona (May 1, 2006)

So much to say this month from everyone!
I'm just popping in for a quick hello









And I hope the baby comes soon, DiD!
And Amy, I hope phase 2 went well last night.
And spughy, thank you so much for helping me through my mastitis.
(I got it this weekend). I actually STILL have a fever (100), though am on antibiotics, but the redness, pain, blocked ducts, etc, seems to be gone. So, I'm still laying low, and since DH is out of a job at the moment, it works out well that he's home to help take care of Finley while I take it easy.

He does seem to be getting some gigs at this editing/production company, so that is a positive thing.

And kaspirant, thanks for sharing your wedding website! It's Beautiful! Great work.

And Q of C, Ellie and Killie are adorable







I love seeing the pictures of them.

Helen, thinking of you, and so glad that you feeling so positive and alive and called and inspired in this direction of helping women and babies in your area through the birthing process. How very exciting.

Bex80, that's great about therapy. I hope it is helping. I have thought about doing some therapy myself, to help work through pains of the past (and present, even), but haven't quite come through with it. I try to work through it on my own, which sometimes works, and sometimes doesn't. Kudos to you for sticking to it and doing it. And yes, I agree, it is very much a part of mothering, as this board is very much about the mothers as well as the children.

Am trying to both relax and get little things done the rest of the day, as tomorrow is a big one, with a photo session in the morning (to add to my portfolio, a complimentary one therefore), and teaching baby sign language in the afternoon. Am anxious to hear the lead results...we should get them today...if there is any lead in our apartment. Will keep you posted!

Sending out some love (and labor dust your way, DiD!)


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## *Amy* (Jun 16, 2004)

Barcelona, ick.







That stinks about your mastitis, but I am glad your honey is home to help you. And yay for your shoot tomorrow, and DH's prospects!

DiD, still thinking about you today! A friend of mine here in town had her DS#2 this morning, so birthing vibes are in the air!

Spughy - yum!!

QoC - I love that picture of Killy and Ellie holding hands! You'll have to remind them of that when they're teenagers and hate eachother.









Kaspirant, I love your wedding site! What lovely pictures.







And this is going to sound funny, but you don't look anything like how I pictured you! I was always imagining you with long dark hair and dark eyes. Isn't it funny how we create mental images of each other?

Gunter, Happy birthday!! Can I tell you how much I LOVE frontier house? I watched it like 2 years ago (in two days) and I *still* think about it. Do you like any of the other House series? And that is so hard that Ez has been so sick! Brynn and I had the same thing over the Thanksgiving holiday, and it was horrible, and we also went through every sheet, pillowcase, blanket, and set of jammies in the house - and we were at my in-laws! It was god awful. Brynn lost over a pound, and she's pretty lean too, so I was a little sad about that. I hope she's on the mend now. Oh, and I want to see your blog!

Susannah, no I haven't tried Hylands PMS. I will look for it, thanks for the tip! I definitely seem to need it! Oh, and as far as the ringlets, just ask Fern if you should cut them or not!

Thanks for all of the positive sleep vibes. Last night went very well. She slept for 2.5 hours the first time, and when she woke up I encouraged her to lay back down and go do sleep. She wasn't exactly enthusiastic about it, and she cried a bit, but she did to back to sleep for another hour! After that, she came to bed with us, and can I just tell y'all that she slept SO MUCH BETTER than usual for the rest of the night. I remember waking up around 4:45 to her asking for milk (or "ilk" as she calls it), but there was no crying, no fussing, no kicking, nothing. Just a sweet little "ilk, ilk" and that was it. I think she did wake sometime before that but again, it was just really calm and peaceful. She nursed for about 5 minutes, and then rolled herself over and went back to sleep. I was in heaven, I tell you. She was also much less restless overall, thankfully. She woke up for the morning around 7:00 and was in a great mood, and has been SO sweet and cuddly and funny all day. We had a total love fest on the living room floor for about 30 minutes this morning, and then she took a 2.5 hour nap and I held her so that we could get in our quota of cuddling time for the day. And so I could keep reading my book!







Anyway, this is the second time I've tried this approach; the first time was about a week ago and it was also the best sleep we've seen in a long time. So I feel good about the night-time aspect of Phase 2. The nap changes just aren't working though; I tried several times to get her to sleep in her bed and/or the Amby yesterday, but she just wasn't having it so DH ended up holding her for about an hour while she slept so I could get some stuff done. We talked about it and both agreed that it seemed to be pushing it too much, and given that she always naps just fine anyway, why mess with a good thing!? Anyway







I know y'all wanted to hear every single detail!!

The weather is SO COLD here and we are totally housebound, which sucks. Also our heater is running constantly and the air in our house is so dry that both of us had fly-away hair this morning - like so extreme that I almost took a picture of Brynn; it looked like she had touched one of those lightning ball things that they have at science museums.







I finally turned on the humidifier upstairs, and then turned on our rice steamer and left the lid off downstairs, so it seems to have helped a bit.

And if anyone wants to keep reading this message that NEVER ENDS, I have to share a couple of cute things that Brynnie is doing. One, she says "WOW-WEE!" whenever she is really impressed by something. Two, she is all about whispering now, which is just so precious and adorable. Third, she is in a *major* hugging phase. She wants to hug everything (and I mean everything): me, her dolls, her toys, the window, the phone, the picture of the author of my book (on the back cover), pens, her feet. Everything. It is hilarious.

OK, that'll do.


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Amy, Rowan is right into the hugging now too. She hugs all the pictures she likes in her books, but she's learned that the cat does not like to be hugged so she leans over and gives her delicate little kisses on the top of her kitty head. I can hear the little "smack smack" sounds. Thankfully, the cat doesn't mind this at all and it is so adorable I just turn into a little puddle when I see it. Then she turns around and suddenly delicate, gentle Rowan disappears and she starts terrorizing the dog or pulling my hair or poking my eyes... and I KNOW why she's so gentle with the cat, it's because if she's not, she gets scratched, and she knows it. It's too bad she can't respond so well to "gentle, Rowan, gentle"...

Last night I took what was supposed to be a relaxing bath but all I could hear was "Rowan, leave the dog alone. Rowan, please don't pull the dog's fur. Rowan. ROWAN! Leave Daisy alone. Come help Daddy in the kitchen. NO! Rowan, don't pull Daisy's tail..." And yet, put a snack in Rowan's hand, and all of a sudden the tables are turned, and it's Daisy chasing Rowan around the couch instead.







One day, they will be best of friends, I know it - but I think that day is a long way off...


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## spiritmomma (Aug 29, 2005)

So much to catch up on here! Seemingly everyone is doing well and that is wonderful.
Isa is doing well most of the time. Her bottom molars or eyeteeth (not sure which they are) are now poking out. However for the last few days, they have been _wicked_ swollen and sometimes bloody.







She seems uncomfortable, as I imagine she would be. Other than that, life is pretty good around here. It IS effen COLD in Indianapolis, but I heard our team won the superbowl so I guess that's cool. Not a sportsfan, neither is DH and we don't have a TV. I kinda like living in a media vacuum.








Isa's new tricks are meowing like cat, to the cat, or to pictures of cats, or lions, tigers, leopards, etc... It's wonderfully cute and since our cat is pretty vocal, they talk to each other now.







She is also chanting OM with us before bed. Par of our routine involves saying goodnight to the rooms. In our dining room, we have 2 OM's on the wall and when we say goodnight to them, we chant. Isa's chant is pretty quiet, but she's doing it, which I think is a great step toward learning to relax on her own before bed. I can totally see us all chanting OM as a family to help her to sleep after her nursing days are over!









*Amy* Hoping the positive sleep trend continues! :yawn:

DiD: labor vibes for peaceful, safe, joyous delivery







:

Bex80: I know what you mean about finding computer time... Mostly I've been too tired to even sign on!

spughy: I hate myself when I forget the Ergo carrier. I think Isa hates me too.









zjande: where are you?







:


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## lunchbox (May 14, 2003)

Just wanted to introduce myself. I've been around this site for a long time, mostly lurking and I wasn't active here with my Nov 05 bub.

Della Fern is a true joy. She is very huggy kissy. She loves to dance and twirling is her new skill.

Last time I weighed her, she was 35.25 lbs and was 34 inches tall. I didn't believe I would have a baby bigger than my first but she is. My first was 29.5 lbs at a year, Della Fern was 35 at 10 mos.

Bex80!!! OMG both our kids are days apart! DD1 was 5/6/02 and Della Fern was 11/29/05. WOW!

I should mention that we are still BFing (duh - DD1 weaned at 4.5 years) and Della has minimal interest in solids. Yeah, I know! Super creamy mama's milk!


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## Bex80 (Feb 8, 2004)

Lunchbox~









Wanted to chime in that Abs is totally huggy and we have to say 'goodnight' to all 6 "friends" in her crib.









spiritmomma, too sweet about Isa chanting! I bet she has a dear little voice. I find anything they say or do at this age fascinating. Hearing those pure little voices just move me so.

Amy, YAY for last night! I hope tonight brings more of the same. I love the 'ilk, ilk'.







Good idea about the humidifier, my hands are cracked and bleeding and all of us have crazy hair. Ugh! Ths static electricity from Abs' sleeper is cool to see during a middle of the night nursing session. Little sparks and snaps of blue electricity. Trippy!









Barcelona, forgive me but have you begun a photo career? I have been (noticeably) absent from many of our PP threads and am catching up on who's workinga nd doing what.







: Sounds like a bunch of fun despite ehich side of the camera you are on for your session tomorrow. Photography is so beautiful. I hope the mastitis clears up and goes away ASAP. That sounds so painful and uncomfortable.









Sarah, sounds like Rowan and Abigail both have a bit soft spot for kitties. That is so neat how she gives little gentle kisses. And hey, while I wish there were easier ways to teach about stuff like sharp kitty claws, sometimes all that works are natural consequences. My mom must've told me a thousand times that our cat Luther taught us kids how to treat him. She said it only took one time with each of us.

Abigail LOVES Lars, our kitty. Whenever she spies him she squeals and says "Laaaahs!". I guess because I always talk in a high pitched voice to the cat myself. She always wants to pet him and stuff and she gets totally distracted by him whenever she's eating. She will squirm to get down and no amount of cajoling or even puting the cat out dissuade her. No wonder she still hasn't topped 20 pounds yet...:eyeroll


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Welcome, lunchbox! Wow you have big kids! I thought mine was doing pretty well at 22 lbs! Funny you should mention weight - I just weighed Rowan yesterday, more out of curiosity than anything else... I picked her up and I thought "ugh, I think she's put on weight" and sure enough she's put on about 2 lbs since her 12-mo checkup. I guess we don't have to worry that she's eating enough!


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## Queen of Cups (Aug 29, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lunchbox* 
Last time I weighed her, she was 35.25 lbs and was 34 inches tall. I didn't believe I would have a baby bigger than my first but she is. My first was 29.5 lbs at a year, Della Fern was 35 at 10 mos

Wow! I am so impressed! My son was always above the 90th percentiles for height and weight (except now his weight has dropped quite a bit as he's super active, but he's still quite tall), and everyone thinks Ellie is just minuscule when she stands next to him. I constantly have people comment on how absolutely tiny she is, and I gently let them know that she was 60th percentile for height and 50th percentile for weight at one year, so she's almost perfectly average. I think its because she walks and moves so well to be only be 14 months. She runs, she carries heavy toys, she's been practicing walking backwards the last couple of weeks, she climbs ladders (and anything else!)...

We're in the super-kissy phase, too. I love it! She kisses us a million times a day, kisses her dolls, pictures in books, tries to chase the cats down to kiss them... The other night she was going to bed, and wanted to kiss Killy, but he was distracted and not paying attention to her. I said, "Killy! Ellie wants to kiss you goodnight." He froze in the middle of the kitchen, leaned his head down, looked at Ellie and said, "Ellie, please kiss me." and waited with his lips puckered till she walked over and kissed him on the lips. Then he said, "Thank you, Ellie." and went back to playing. It was so sweet I nearly melted right there.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Ah







Skye kisses too. She's not big on dolls or cuddly toys, but is a big, big fan of the dog.
Bex, the NHS is the national health system. What they're doing in Wales is just clarifying the big exciting legislation that went through a few years ago (changing childbirth) but it's still really cool. (Wales has an independent legislature- I'm about 40 miles away from the border.) And to whoever asks, no ,at the moment I'm a full time mum, but I've spent the last 6 years gearing my voluntary work with a goal to training as a midwife- and now I can do what I want. It's a strangely liberating feeling.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Oh, you GiRLS!









Thankyou so much for the flowers. It means so much, I just feel so treasured.








Last night wasn't such a good night for us, so it made today seem so much better. Thankyou!


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Hi all! I'm back! I never seem to be able to keep up with our threads, so I'm glad that I can jump in at the beginning of the month for February!!!

And my very special reason to be checking right now was that the thought came into my head earlier today--"I wonder what's up with DID? I think she's due sometime around now, isn't she? I wonder if she has had her baby?" I decided that the most efficient way to figure it out was to come check our Nov. 05 thread. And now I am amazed at my own psychic powers upon coming here and discovering that it's your due date today! (well, I guess really it's yesterday based on the fact that it's after midnight, but since I haven't been to bed yet I'm still on Monday, Feb. 5) Thinking of you, and sending you good labor and birth vibes!

Ella is doing great. She talks a lot and has a lot of words, but she isn't quite walking yet. She will walk while holding on to one adult finger or a section of pants for balance, and she has a little walking toy that she can hold onto and push (her "car") and she will even sometimes get almost up to a run while pushing that or the ottoman all around the living room and laughing hysterically, but she won't quite walk independently. I also discovered today that she hates swinging. I took her to the park and tried pushing her in the baby swing. I'd put her in a swing once or twice before and she was so-so about it, but today she was absolutely terrified and let out a huge wail and so I took her right out. I tried swinging on a regular swing with her on my lap (and I mean, not fast or high at all) for her to get the message that it's okay, but she basically just cried and clung to me like a monkey, so I abandoned the project.

Our biggest news is that it looks like we will be moving to Louisville, Kentucky in a few months, due to DH's job. His boss and several of his work group are going to a new institution there, and his boss wants him to come with, and is making some very tempting offers in terms of more money, better job title, moving expenses, more opportunities for advancement and further education, etc., all of which would be impossible here. So, if the formal offer comes through as we expect it, we will be moving. We went there last weekend to check it out, as neither of us had been there before, and decided that we would be willing to move there. Everything else is up in the air--when the move would happen (prob. sometimes between May and July), what we are going to do with our house here, where we will live there, etc. But, I guess we have time to figure it out.


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## SoulJourney (Sep 26, 2005)

YAY, Helen...glad we could brighten your day! Big







to you!

lunchbox: WELCOME!







And WOWZA you grow big babies!!! I just had Noah in the other day for some mild eczema and he is 33" and 27 1/2 pounds!







: I thought HE was big! Love your DD's name, btw!

DiD:







sending lots of good labor vibes your way. I, too, followed part of FSM's induction method, which is what popped Noah out.









Spiritmomma: Isn't it FLIPPIN FREEEEEZING??? Sheesh. Noah's starting to go through some serious teething issues right now. We've been wearing the teething necklace at night and gobbling up the teething tabs. I felt like he wore me out more over the weekend than both boys did all week!







:

Amy: I'm glad to hear sleep issues are being resolved. Do you have problems with Brynn wanting to nurse endlessly in the mornings? I'm having such a hard time with Noah first thing in the mornings. He literally spends 45-an hour "nursing" and I. NEED. TO. GET. READY!!!!!!! Argh. And I totally hear you on the staticky hair...I have it myself. Noah still doesn't have enough hair and what he does have, MAN is it course!

Bex80: Just wanted to say HI! Always good to see your "smiling" face!









Barcelona: Do you shoot digital or film? What camera do you own? My digi camera just crapped out and I'm looking to get a digi SLR hopefully by spring/summer. I am a Nikon girl so it's just a matter of WHICH Nikon I want. I had a pretty decent photography business going a few years back but ditched it all to play in the mountains. Was a silly choice but I was really burning myself out on something I always felt very passionate about. Word from the wise...always stay true to yourself! If you feel very strongly about not shooting certain types of jobs...DON'T DO IT. I hated weddings but did them for the $$$ and that's where I went wrong. I would like to start doing baby/children again one day in the sort-of-near future. I may PM you about the baby sign language classes you're teaching, too, if that's ok. I have been talking to a friend of mine about doing this together...it's still in the discussion phase.

Kavita: Good to see you stop in, mama!

Hi FERN & ZJANDE! Wherever you guys may be!


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Well I'm officially "overdue" today. Raise your hand if you're surprised.


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## Gunter (May 5, 2005)

just reading along...

baby ez is feeling better today thankfully. she's eating solid food, again but her poopies have yet to be solid.







let's hope that changes soon. at least, she is happy to play and spirits are up!

is anyone else overwhelmed by their dog/cat/fish/hamster? I am ashamed to say that my dog has been getting on my nerves recently. now with a sick babe, it's just been hard to keep up with him and meet his needs, too. any tips on how to balance?


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## eirual (Mar 21, 2006)

Wow, I've got a lot of reading to do to figure all you mamas out!

As for valentines, we're not going to do any this year, but last year I cut out red hearts from heavy-weight red paper and put a white handprint on them in the top of one lobe of the heart (started in the top left, he moved, so went to the top right, so I rolled with that and half-assedly 'sponge painted' the background to blend in the botched print) and wrote "Happy Valentines Grandma and Grandpa, love Hunter". They loved it. Oh, and I also used the red hearts as tracers to cut out a thin white heart outline that I glued onto the red one- they looked pretty fine if I do say so myself.

Now that I have more time on my hands I figure I'll give you all a little more insight about where I'm coming from.

I'm 24, had Hunter at home, breastfeed, he's intact, un-vaxed, we cosleep, babywear, do EC, is there anything else I'm forgetting?? lol,.... anywhoo- we do that sorta stuff.

I was home with Hunter for the first 9 months of his life, then we moved from the hippy-friendly city we loved to a not-so-great-for-anything city we don't so much love so I could start teacher's college. So that's in the works, it's going fine- I can't wait to do our last block when I actually get to get back into the schools with the kids, not in the dungeon building they place all their faculty of education courses in at the university







:

Hunter's doing great. He's saying more and more 'words' all the time ("meh" for milk, "ga-da" for guitar, "daw" for dog, "o-o" for off, etc.). He isn't trusting himself enough to walk yet. A few random steps, but nothing consistant. He's convinced he needs at least a finger to go. Last week was rough as his top eye teeth cut through, but he seems more comfortable with them now that they've broken through.

DiD, best birthing vibes being sent your way- for your sake, I'm hoping it's sooner rather than later









Spughy, did you 'catch' your own yeast?? I've tried a few batches of SD and haven't had any work for me yet.

How are you mamas with the baby cravings?? having any?? acting on any?? I had a wave of them a couple of months ago that was sooo crazy intense, thankfully that has passed (hints of it still hit me when I see a pregnant mama or little babe).


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

I posted about my sourdough in the traditional foods forum here. It's a combination of "caught" yeasts and yeasts from kefir.


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## *Amy* (Jun 16, 2004)

Welcome Laurie! What a beautiful family you have! Congratulations on almost being finished with your program!

Gunter, as for the pet thing...I've thought about you so much this year because I know how attached you were to your dog, and wondered if you were having problems with the new family dynamic. This past year was so hard for Spencer, our Boxer, and I didn't tell y'all this when it happened, but we had to put her to sleep at the end of December.







She had Cushing's disease, and was getting worse by the week. I still really miss her, and feel so bad that her quality of life went downhill so quickly. Before she got really sick though, I experienced a heavy mix of strong annoyance, and guilt. I just couldn't give her the attention that I used to be able to, and she wasn't our baby like she had been her whole life. It was sad, to be honest. Anyway, Gunter, I don't have any advice, but just wanted to let you know you aren't alone in your feelings!!

Lunchbox, welcome to our group! Brynn in't really into the solids thing either, but seems to be picking up a little more every day. I think Della (what a cute name, by the way!) would tower over her; Brynn is only right at 20 pounds now, and around 31". She's a little beanpole!

Speaking of that, QoC, people say the same thing about Brynn. I think most people assume she's around 18-24 months (with all the hair, and the talking, and the walking/running), so most people are shocked when I say she's actually tall for her age, and she just turned 14 months!









Spughy, I can't find the post where you said it, but Brynn really doesn't do the marathon nursing very often - well, during the day, anyway. She's just such a little busy-body that if *anything* distracts her, she's liable to pop off and check out the scene while I sit and spray milk all over the both of us! (Speaking of which, yesterday she squeezed my areola and saw, for the first time, milk actually squirting out of my nipple. I think she was really startled for a second, and then started laughing. It was pretty funny!)

Kavita, it's so good to see you again, girl! How exciting about your move to Louisville.







Sounds like it'll be a big change for your family, and I hope it's a good one!

Helen, sorry you had a rough night last night, Mama. I'm glad you were cheered up a bit today.









*DiD, hang in there Mama! Your *daughter* will be here before you know it!







:*

We had a pretty good night last night, and she's been sleeping for about an hour on her nap so far, so things are looking up. Still making progress.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Yeah: you know that certain members of my family weren't happy with my decision to refuse ultrasound because twins run in my family, my aunt miscarried one twin at 3 months and carried the other one to 8 months, and they were convinced that I had twins too? They were right. The thing I love best about my family, though, is that nobody is going to say "I told you so."

Amy, I'm so sorry about your dog. Gunter, I know totally what you mean. It's driving us nuts here because Maya had a phantom pregnancy (no idea how, she's spayed) and so is carrying her puppy everywhere, nesting and generally being an excellent mother. The heartbreaking thing- aside from the fact that she obviously knows what's up, and doesn't know how- is that her puppy is Skye's beloved rubber duckie, and she keeps on dropping it for Skye to mother, and then taking it off again. It probably reads funny, but it's hard to watch.
DiD, the best things in life are worth waiting for. My prophecy of the nice, calm, gentle, painless, very short birth happening right now still hold.
Laurie, I hope teaching college goes well for you. My dh is back at uni training to be a teacher (he's doing 6 months subject enhancement first) and working part-time as a classroom supervisor, and absolutely loving it.


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## MelW (Jan 13, 2005)

Hi All!

Helen~ I'm confused by your post- do you think this was a twin pregnancy?







I hope today is better for you guys.

eirual~ Good luck with the last couple of weeks in school









lunchbox~ Welcome! My back aches just thinking about your big baby!

spughy~ That's some good weight gain for Rowan, too! She must be eating a ton while you're at work!

Amy~ So sorry about your dog









Kavita~ Welcome back! Good to see you here!

DiD~ Lots of birthing vibes to you






























Peacefulmommy~ We've been having some marathon nursings lately, too. They make me totally batty some days







: I know it's her way of slowing me down, so of course it always happens when we're rushing to get out and go somewhere.

Bex~ My internet time is kind of embarrasing...I get a little when Neela naps (like right now), but I sometimes let her play with "forbidden" toys while I read a little to stay caught up. We store our toolbox in our office, so I let her open it and play with the wrenches







: Or I give her the calculator to make pretend phone calls- she'll tell me who she is calling, and I get to talk to them, too.


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

I am soooo bored. I don't even have anything interesting to do to occupy my time. I don't even have anything interesting to say!


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## Phoenix_Rising (Jun 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
Susannah, when are you going to come play in yarn crafts? Keagan sounds adorable- I love those baby kisses.

I lurk there a bit but don't post much









*Amy* - glad to "hear" that sleeping is going a bit better!

spughy - rowan and keagan sound like they took lessons from the same school of animal torture!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eirual* 
How are you mamas with the baby cravings?? having any?? acting on any??

my cravings have never really stopped! not sure we will have more though.


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eirual* 
How are you mamas with the baby cravings?? having any?? acting on any?? I had a wave of them a couple of months ago that was sooo crazy intense, thankfully that has passed (hints of it still hit me when I see a pregnant mama or little babe).

I do not have baby cravings. I have maternity leave cravings









Seriously, I don't think I could get preggers now even if I wanted to because I haven't got my period back yet. And that IUD in there might make things tricky too. I don't plan on producing another child until Rowan is a little more independent - I don't think I could tandem nurse, given my supply issues, so I'd want her weaned. Oh and sleeping through the night would be good too. I don't think I'd want to do 1st trimester having to wake up every 3 hours... I would be SUCH a zombie.


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## eirual (Mar 21, 2006)

Quote:

Or I give her the calculator to make pretend phone calls
lol, DS does the exact same thing with calculators- he gets pulled into them 'cause of their appealing buttons and they always turn into a phone.


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## SoulJourney (Sep 26, 2005)

Ack! I forgot to say Welcome Laurie! Cute, cute family you have!







Hunter has waaaaaay more hair and teeth than my Noah!









be back later...noah's not cooperating right now!


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## spiritmomma (Aug 29, 2005)

laurie: you do have a super cute family...

DiD: hope your sweet little bean arrives soon! don't think of it as overdue, think of it as your sweet girl getting ripe!

Quote:

Quote:
Or I give her the calculator to make pretend phone calls
lol, DS does the exact same thing with calculators- he gets pulled into them 'cause of their appealing buttons and they always turn into a phone.








Isa has turned remote controls, calculators, iPods, and even a computer mouse into a "phone" I love that!


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## Gunter (May 5, 2005)

DID- I do hope that you are in labor as I type. Are you?









I am a pathetic mom who bought her daughter a fake cell phone to keep her from using mine to call people. I did finally learn to use the "lock" button on my phone. I only got a cell phone last year and i hate having technology attached to me all the time. ugh. i seriously have a love-hate relationship with most all technological inventions and the entire industrial revolution in general. yeah, can you see why i devoured "frontier house"? hmmnnn...

i threatened that my dog was to become an outside dog today. he didn't though. we moved last year and have a dog run/kennel attached to a building. we never use it though. the old owners did animal rescue. i really *should* do something like that with the space but just couldn't handle it at this point in my life, KWIM? I can barely give my own dog the attention he deserves. ugh.

no baby lust here, really. i did have it for a while. but, we really want to live abroad for a while and our energies are focused on that. so, the baby making will wait until we return to the states (or move out of them) or just get a little more clarity about what we are doing in life beyond traveling. kinda want to explore the world a bit more before more children come into our life. dh quit his job last november (after they were *sshol3s about paternal leave and he opened a HR case) and is now self-employed as an independent contractor. so, his current contract is up in june. thus, we would like to live abroad for a while come june. we talked about making babies once ez turned two but want to wait for now.


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## Queen of Cups (Aug 29, 2003)

Babylust: not especially prevalent around here. Having two kids in 18 months can take care of that for awhile!







I really am not interested in having more kids until Killy and Ellie are both potty-learned and at least Killy has weaned. DH and I want two more kids, but we plan on ttc about a year from now, if it feels right. There are times, though, that our family just seems perfect now and we're afraid to change it! We were talking about it the other night, and we both agree that if we have more kids it has to be two more (we love Killy and Ellie's buddy-buddy relationship and wouldn't want a third child to be the third wheel), so that's a bit of added pressure. But, next time we have a couple kids I think we'll aim for having them closer to 24 months apart, rather than 17.5 months. Having two pregnancies that close and two kids so dependent on breastmilk at the same time has been really tough on my body. I'm pretty sure that's why I had SO much trouble with morning sickness during my pregnancy with Ellie.


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## Gunter (May 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Queen of Cups* 
Babylust: not especially prevalent around here. Having two kids in 18 months can take care of that for awhile!








I really am not interested in having more kids until Killy and Ellie are both potty-learned and at least Killy has weaned. DH and I want two more kids, but we plan on ttc about a year from now, if it feels right. There are times, though, that our family just seems perfect now and we're afraid to change it! We were talking about it the other night, and we both agree that if we have more kids it has to be two more (we love Killy and Ellie's buddy-buddy relationship and wouldn't want a third child to be the third wheel), so that's a bit of added pressure. But, next time we have a couple kids I think we'll aim for having them closer to 24 months apart, rather than 17.5 months. Having two pregnancies that close and two kids so dependent on breastmilk at the same time has been really tough on my body. I'm pretty sure that's why I had SO much trouble with morning sickness during my pregnancy with Ellie.

Your family is so beautiful, BTW! I have thought that since we were preggo together and hoped to have said it!


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spiritmomma* 
DiD: hope your sweet little bean arrives soon! don't think of it as overdue, think of it as your sweet girl getting ripe!

She's plenty ripe by now, I'm sure.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gunter* 
DID- I do hope that you are in labor as I type. Are you?









Sigh. No.


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

subbing.. i didnt know this thread was started..







: shows how much i know.. ill read through tomorow..

Love!


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gunter* 
I am a pathetic mom who bought her daughter a fake cell phone to keep her from using mine to call people.

no baby lust here, really. i did have it for a while. but, we really want to live abroad for a while and our energies are focused on that. so, the baby making will wait until we return to the states (or move out of them) or just get a little more clarity about what we are doing in life beyond traveling. kinda want to explore the world a bit more before more children come into our life. dh quit his job last november (after they were *sshol3s about paternal leave and he opened a HR case) and is now self-employed as an independent contractor. so, his current contract is up in june. thus, we would like to live abroad for a while come june. we talked about making babies once ez turned two but want to wait for now.


Ha ha, you think that's bad--I actually gave my 14 month old child a REAL cell phone!! I had switched services to DH's company a couple of years ago so we could have mobile to mobile minutes and a shared plan and that required changing phones. I had my old phone stashed in a give-away box--I took out the battery and gave it to Ella to play with!! Of course, the even worse part about this is that she has no interest in it, because it doesn't light up, beep, make noise, or take pictures. I have a motorola Razr as my cell phone, and yes, she has figured out how to flip it open and take pictures with the darn thing! She does things with that phone that I don't know how to do. I guess I should figure out how to lock it . . . but it's mostly a problem when I try to call anybody, she has a total fit if I don't give her the phone to play with!! Anything with buttons, she's totally into. She is especially in love with my keys, and will find them anywhere I put them. That's one of her favorite words--"Keys!! Keys!!!" and she likes to push the buttons on the clicker and set the alarm off!! She also has figured out how to start the washer, dryer (front loading washer and matching dryer, both have control panels on the front) and the microwave, as well as turn the stereo on and off, either on the machine or with the remote.

Are you thinking about India? (Sorry I didn't respond to the spicy mamas thread, but hi back!!) We have decided to postpone our trip until the fall, because it will be right when we need to be doing things to either rent or sell our house and looking for a place to live in Louisville. It just won't give us enough time, and we don't think we'll enjoy a trip with our entire life in limbo back home . . . .

I'm starting to have some major baby lust here. I want to lose some weight and optimize my diet before I get pregnant again, and I also really don't want to go through another pregnancy without much of an IRL support system--figures that as soon as I've developed a really good community of people here who could be counted on to bring me postpartum casseroles and could watch Ella if need be, we're moving to another state where we don't know anybody! Aack! I'm sure the reality of being pregnant and having another baby would freak me out if it really happenned, but I've returned to the state where at least on a fantasy level it seems appealing. I've been having dreams of being pregnant and giving birth, and I'm feeling like there is another baby out there for us sort of waiting in the wings . . . I do want Ella to be a little older and less dependent on nursing and to really have her moment in the sun.


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## spiritmomma (Aug 29, 2005)

My birthday is later this month. I'm turning 29.
I told Joshua that I want to get pregnant before I'm 30.
BTW, not that there is _anything at all_ wrong with having a baby after one has reached the very young age of 30, but for my personal dreams... I'd like to have one more baby and then grow in other ways. So I guess it's time to visit The ONE thread and let 'em know I fell off the fence!


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

I think it's baby day! Contractions every 10 minutes for the past 3 hours. I called DP home from work so hopefully this is it! I'll keep you posted!


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## Gunter (May 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DreamsInDigital* 
I think it's baby day! Contractions every 10 minutes for the past 3 hours. I called DP home from work so hopefully this is it! I'll keep you posted!

i will be sending your easy labor and gentle birth vibes, oh, and quick recovery vibes, too!

happy upcoming birthday, spiritmama! i turned 29 just a week ago.

kavita- good idea about the old cell phone; at least you didn't spend money on a fake one like me. it's pretty ridiculous that i did that. we do hope to be in india by the end of the year. no certainty though. once we know more, let's plan our trip together, k? do i remember that your dh is from madras or kerala or calcutta or at least, from the south? we have been to delhi and north but never south, yet. i am just am so excited that it may be a reality for us to actually go this year! i have heard good things about st. louis and looked at grad school there (but never even applied to any).


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DreamsInDigital* 
I think it's baby day! Contractions every 10 minutes for the past 3 hours. I called DP home from work so hopefully this is it! I'll keep you posted!
















:



































:

im thinking of you and i cant wait to hear all about it!


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## Bex80 (Feb 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DreamsInDigital* 
I think it's baby day! Contractions every 10 minutes for the past 3 hours. I called DP home from work so hopefully this is it! I'll keep you posted!

Eeeeeeeee!!!!!!





















:


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DreamsInDigital* 
I think it's baby day! Contractions every 10 minutes for the past 3 hours. I called DP home from work so hopefully this is it! I'll keep you posted!


OH! Exciting!!! Now I'll have to stop work every half hour and check







Good luck, DiD - I hope everything goes smoothly and you have your sweet little girl in your arms by this evening!


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## Awaken (Oct 10, 2004)

Ok. seriously guys, I am so determined to post on our thread this month, that I have spent the past 3 days with it open, trying to read it all! I am multi-quoting nearly every post so I don't forget anyone!!

Well, we woke up to baby's first GI bug! Oh joy! Ezra was very happily playing in a pool of vomit in his crib when I came to get him. He's been throwing up and having diarrhea all morning, AND it snowed so Ethan is home from school with nothing to do, and is getting into trouble, since I am doing nothing but cleaning up puke and I can't pay attention to him. An angel of a neighbor came over to get him, and miraculously, Ethan went with him- he never goes with anyone!! So I could *finally* nurse Ezra and get him to sleep! But the @#$#@[email protected]#%@#% crib fell apart when I changed the sheet, so I have no safe place to put him, so he's on the floor sleeping!! @#$#%#%$

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bex80* 
---Life is good overall, I've begun therapy to deal with stuff from my past (relationships, how my life as a mother began, etc.) and I am already feeling more optimistic. However, that whole pesky "dealing with your emotions" stuff takes a toll on the heart and the mind so I am just all over the place these days.

Bex, good to see you and to hear about the kiddoes







Glad you're working through some stuff. Hope it helps things in the long run









and welcome to our new Nov. mamas!! Lunckbox- my 4 yr old is barely 25#- I can't imagine a 1 yr old at 30+#!!! Glad you found us!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
I'm actually surprisingly good, considering. I went to a regional NCT training day yesterday, which was insane, but met so many fantastic people and got so many cool ideas, it was wonderful.

Helen! That all sounds so cool! I love to hear about the work you're doing, and I'm so glad that you have found your niche. I'm so glad you got our little gift









Quote:


Originally Posted by **Amy** 
Speaking of hoping, DH has three follow-up interviews in the next week or so. Two are in Michigan (Detroit and Kalamazoo), which, no thanks. The third is in AUSTIN! So please keep all of your fingers and toes crossed for that one!









Amy- wow, sounds exciting!! Let us know what happens! Didn't you guys move not too long ago, when we were pregnant?

Glad to hear progress is being made on the sleep front. It has been fun reading the daily installments of the saga!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *kaspirant* 
I missed the GET OUT feeling stage with mine, and boy do I wish I had found you ladies sooner! Jacob was *due* in January of 2006. My water broke October 17th and I had 32 days of hospitalized bedrest praying my bean would stay in. It was soo scary! He was born at 33 weeks and was the healthiest baby in the NICU!! (granted if I had been on mothering then I'd be in the Jan DDC and I'm so happy here!!)









I never got to the 'get out' and 'I'm sick of being pregnant' stages, either. I'm sorry you had such a scary time surrounding Jacob's birth! Your heart must have just sank when your water broke so early. But so glad that he was so healthy!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gunter* 
ez has had that stomach virus thing since thursday. she threw up for the last time this morning, hopefully! she is actually eating more than mama's milk as of today, too. the one upside is that every linen in our house has been washed in the past four days (b/c it was either puked on or shit on!) and is now clean! oh, yeah, and half of our clothes are all clean and in the closets, now, too after going through the same test as the linens. i am just so thankful that she is better.

last tuesday was my 29th birthday. i have spent too many hours watching "frontier house" in it's entirety. i got the dvd set for my birthday; no tv here so i missed it whenever it was on pbs. but totally devoured it when i heard about the project. how fun. i still am romantic about it all. i lived in montana years, ago. dh and i were all lusty about going back there while we were watching the dvd!

Well, now I can relate to the virus thing and washing all the linens and pj's!! I've done several loads already this morning! And still have to sanitize the bath tub and toys he puked on! Really fun!! I'm so glad your Ezra is getting better now! How awesome that they can have the most perfect and healing food- mama's milk! When Ethan had this as a baby, he wasn't nursing any longer, so I felt so helpless, just watching it happen and not having any milk for him. Now at least I feel like ezra is getting good antibodies and a perfectly digestible food!








: happy birthday, young lady!!

Oh, oh, oh!! I just got Frontier House on netflix, but haven't watching it yet! I LOVE all those PBS reality shows! Maybe we should start a separate thread in TV to discuss them!







I really liked 1940's house, where the family had to live through a simulated WW2.

Oh, and on the dog thing- I feel so horrible about the lack of attention our 2 dogs are getting now. I still love them just as much, but I am flat out overwhelmed with simply feeding, dressing, and entertaining the kids and cooking and cleaning, that taking care of them seems like one more chore. The one has a minor health issue that just came up, so it's really made me start thinking about how much we'll miss them when they're gone, and we are trying to do more for them- dh takes them swimming or on long walks on the weekends when he can, and if I have no plans in the am while Ethan's at school I take them on walks.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bex80* 
I second the citrus dipes. With Austin it was mandarin oranges, they also gave him a wicked rash. With Abigail it's craisins. Oh, and once she ate a lot of raisins and I guess they sort of reconstituted in her bowels because they looked like small grapes when they showed up at the other end!









uke ! Ezra won't eat oranges, so I haven't had that pleasure yet! Looking forward to it though!







I can't believe you mentioned the raisins, b/c I just gave them to him for the first time, right before his illness, and we now have LOTS of reconstituted grapes coming out both ends! uke Wow, what a gross post this is turning out to be!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *barcelona* 
I actually STILL have a fever (100), though am on antibiotics, but the redness, pain, blocked ducts, etc, seems to be gone. So, I'm still laying low, and since DH is out of a job at the moment, it works out well that he's home to help take care of Finley while I take it easy.

He does seem to be getting some gigs at this editing/production company, so that is a positive thing.









Barcelona- oh no. So sorry you're still sick. I'm glad dh is there to take care of the baby. I do hope he has some success soon at getting more work!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DreamsInDigital* 
I think it's baby day! Contractions every 10 minutes for the past 3 hours. I called DP home from work so hopefully this is it! I'll keep you posted!

WOOoooooooooooooooo Hooooooooooooooooooooo! Cant' wait to hear your news! Hope everything goes smoothly and beautifully! Actually, isn't she *early* compared to your other babies?

Ok, well this just took me about an hour to write!


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

DiD, I'm hoping this is it for you. I know of another baby girl who made her debut today, so it's a good babyhaving day.
Mel, I passed another embryo and some more clots yesterday- but mercifully, I haven't started the hormonal rollercoaster again, and the bleeding has finally slowed down to a manageable level. Right now I'm just living on planet "if only" some of the time, and the rest of the time I try to keep up with my daughter.
I took her out to lower shaw farm this morning and she loved it. Headed straight for the sheep- that's my girl







and then went and played and did crafty stuff and devoured gingerbread men. I don't think I've seen her so happy. Then when it came time to do the school run this afternoon, she headed out of the door once she had her coat on, shouted "no" when she saw the buggy and did the whole thing on foot.


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## kaspirant (Apr 28, 2006)

I can't keep up DS is soo sick







:

I will be back.. to post soon.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

. Hope he's better soon.
DiD, where ARE you? Why aren't you typing through your labour like you did last time?????


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## kaspirant (Apr 28, 2006)

DiD --- Hope everything is going wonderfully...can't wait to see the new babe!!

spughy -- Sourdough pancakes sound dreamy..but then anything edible sounds great right now as I nursed through breakfast and pumped through lunch







:

lunchbox -- Welcome!! and I thought my 5lb13 oz kiddo was big







He's 24lbs now...

QofC -- I love toddler kisses...it's so wonderful.

eirual -- Good luck with teacher's college..I am a middle school teacher. I am on the downhill side of my 4th year teaching and I'm praying daily that I get to quit soon and just stay home with my baby *hoping to be babies soon...we shall see* It's soo hard for me to be both a teacher and a mama. I loved teaching a LOT more before I was a mama.

flapjack -- :HUGS: you are a beautiful mama and I am inspired by your strength!! That farm look ssoooo neat!! sounds like so much fun!

MelW -- I love the calculator idea. I gave DS my old cell phone. he likes it but not as much as my new one /shrug

itsybitsy25 -- oh my there is no describing how much my heart sank when i realized my water had broken that early. It was so hard for me to lay in a hospital for all that time not knowing what was happening...I'm so blessed that my baby is happy and healthy and that my month long *nap* paid off.

Soo now for my horrible no good very bad day.

I had no clue how much vomit a shelf bra could hold...and oh my goodness I wish I didn't know. Poor little pumpkin is soo sick and I am officially out of sick days for the year. I hate working. I hate not being home to take care of my baby. DF is in school and has a bit to go...as soon as he graduates I get to quit...but it feels so far away. I want to be there NOW taking care of him now. Ugh...it's so hard.

I teach 8th grade Physical science in an inner city low income school...the kids are so jaded already it kills me. I try to love them..but i feel spread so thin...I have 208 students...and one of me.

I dream of the day I can stay home and be a mama and not wear all these hats that feel so heavy







:

okay enough whining..

Zjande where are you??!?!

DiD...baby baby baby??!??!


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

My labor is taking a break because it's very chaotic and loud with my children awake. My midwife feels things will wait until after they are in bed to pick up again.


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## kaspirant (Apr 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DreamsInDigital* 
My labor is taking a break because it's very chaotic and loud with my children awake. My midwife feels things will wait until after they are in bed to pick up again.

ooh DiD..







I'm on pins and needles for you


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## SoulJourney (Sep 26, 2005)

EEEEEKS! YAY, DiD! Sending peaceful labor vibes, mama! Can't wait to hear your birth story and all about your little bundle!


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Contractions are back to about every 10 minutes. I'm *very* irritable, which is a good sign. I took a good nap earlier and now I've eaten some dinner so I'm all set if I'm laboring through the night.


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## spiritmomma (Aug 29, 2005)

DiD: yay! hooray! i'm so excited! Glad you feel ready, I'd say that's a great sign. My thoughts are with you and I'm knowing a beautiful laboring experience for you!


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## SoulJourney (Sep 26, 2005)

:

I'm soooo checking in first thing in the morning.


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## SoulJourney (Sep 26, 2005)

Ok. So I just want you all to know that I am seriously thinking of changing my screen name. This name is just not suiting me right now. I don't feel like much of anything is "peaceful" in my life these days. SO...if you are wondering why there is a "new" person not introducing herself, that's because it will be me, Peacefulmommy.


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## barcelona (May 1, 2006)

This is So exciting DiD!!!! Am checking in all the time to see how it's going. I hope this is the real thing! Sending beautiful laboring vibes your way.

How amazing that soon you'll be holding your little girl and gazing at her face and smelling her newness.

...

We ladies are So chatty this month, I can't keep up!
Will try to catch up more tomorrow.
Just had to let you know, DiD, that I'm thinking of you...


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## sarahcecile (Mar 3, 2004)

Wow, what a day to check in on the November DDC!

Yay for DID! I am sending you joyful, smooth labor vibes~!

I have been completely incommunicado (sp?) forever - I don't know how all you Mamas keep up. Perhaps it is the fact that we have dial-up that makes it impossible. By the time the page loads so I can read-up Adeline has decided to wake up. sigh.... someday I'll have internet time, right?

So Addie is walking, talking, and generally making mischief. I am feeling challenged by her current stage - which is very busy while at the same time very "up up" all the time. I have joined an Alfie Kohn Unconditional Parenting discussion group though, which seems to be helping me keep concious of being a respectful parent.

Being a Mama is sooo hard, but also the most amazingly wonderful thing in the universe (as I'm sure you can all relate) and I absolutely have the baby bug. We are probably going to wait to start trying until this fall, maybe even as late as next spring. I have a lot of weight to lose first







:

Hope to keep up with all of you, but in any case









-Sarah


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## Bex80 (Feb 8, 2004)

DID----














I am so excited for you!!!!!

Peacefulmommy---I look forward to seeing the "new you".









More to say but so tired...Tomorrow? Thanks mamas.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

DiD, every single contraction brings that baby girl closer to your arms. It nudges her and squeezes her and hugs her and reassures her and lines her head up in exactly the right place so that it's going to press down on your cervix, which will open, and when she's got it exactly perfect, she will whoosh out and come to meet you. It's the middle of the night there if I've got my time differences right, and so it's a good time for things to kick off for you.
Some of this, IME, is a girl thing. I know this sounds dreadful, but that's what I've found. How's your dp holding up? This is his first, isn't it?


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

I forgot- we have SNOW!!!!!!!!

How excited am I? There's a good two inches coverage over everything, and I'm just waiting to find out if the boys are in school today or not.
Peacefulmommy, peaceful doesn't have to mean boring, you know?
Sarahcecile, I am so right there with you. What helps for me is reminding myself that this will change.

kaspirant








One of mine (not mentioning any names, but he's the one who always drives me nuts) was 3 before he learnt to be sick into things. Until then, it was always ON things, normally me. I was working when he was tiny, too, and though I took time off when he was ill it was still agonising.
Feel free to vent about the work thing. Steve gets so fed up looking at the way "his" kids get written off- he seems to work more with the lower sets and the kids that have been labelled low achievers.
drat- boys are in school. gotta go,


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Still no change. Still every 10 minutes. Still can't go to sleep. I'm so tired.


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DreamsInDigital* 
Still no change. Still every 10 minutes. Still can't go to sleep. I'm so tired.

My computer clock says it's 4:09 am--I am hoping that right now you either, 1) have had your contractions peter out so that you can get some good hours of sleep and wake up in the morning rested and in good, efficient labor, 2) have had serious labor kick in and are either almost complete, or pushing, 3) nursing your sweet little newborn right now!


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

None of the above I'm afraid.


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## *Amy* (Jun 16, 2004)

Oh DiD, you must be exhausted. But just think: she will be here so soon!!!!!!

Yay for snow, Helen! We had a major storm night before last, and left the town looking like a Winter Wonderland yesterday. It was breathtaking.

Sarahcecile - so good to see you, Mama! Is the UP group here on MDC, or somewhere else? I absolutely love that book and try to get my other friends to read it, to no avail. I've read it once, from the library, and just ordered my own copy, so I will begin re-reading it today. And I'm totally with you on feeling like mothering is the absolute hardest thing I have ever done, and ever will do. But so worth it!


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

DiD, have you got a pharmacy or anything near you where you can get some pulsatilla? It was fantastic for breaking my regular contractions with Skye. Also, did the midwife tell you how far down her head is? That might give you an idea of how long this is likely to be.
AND do you know anyone with a TENS machine? That might help you sleep, though not labour.

Can I rant? I rang the school at 8am, they said they were open. We pulled up outside at 8.45am, to be greeted by a teacher telling us that they weren't. 45 minutes of hell, missed play in the snow, and for what? Hrumph. I am so fed up with that school right now


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## Awaken (Oct 10, 2004)

Checking in for baby news!!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
DiD, every single contraction brings that baby girl closer to your arms.

Does that bring back memories! That was one of my affirmations for my births







(well except I said just 'baby' instead of girl!)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
I forgot- we have SNOW!!!!!!!!

How excited am I? There's a good two inches coverage over everything,

and One of mine (not mentioning any names, but he's the one who always drives me nuts) was 3 before he learnt to be sick into things. Until then, it was always ON things, normally me.

2 inches for us, too! But I was too busy with getting thrown up ON instead of out playing in it! Wow, that would be awesome to have a kid who knows how to aim it into something! The best we can hope for is that it's on the wood floor, and not the carpet.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
Can I rant? I rang the school at 8am, they said they were open. We pulled up outside at 8.45am, to be greeted by a teacher telling us that they weren't. 45 minutes of hell, missed play in the snow, and for what? Hrumph. I am so fed up with that school right now









Sorry, that totally stinks







: I would be really mad, too. I am SOOOO thankful Ethan is back in school today!!!

Sarahcecile- so great to see you!

DiD- hang in there! She WILL be here soon!


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

i can't count







There's actually snow up to Skye's nappy on the field at the bottom of the street- 8 inches, total. I put her down in it and she just stood there, totally immobilised, sat down and started eating


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## barcelona (May 1, 2006)

DiD!!! Continuing to send smooth and joyous labor vibes your way. Hang in there!!!! Hope you have gotten some rest.

I'm so jealous of the snow you all have gotten. It is FREEZING here in New York, but no sign of snow anytime soon...bright and sunny, which is pretty, yes, but I would love some snow. We've gotten maybe one inch all winter.









spiritmomma, please PM me with any questions about starting sign language and/or any suggestions for my photography venture. part of me feels like i have no business doing it, (still SO much to learn) but the other part of me wants to go ahead and do it and take the plunge and learn while i do so. acting is really my #1 passion, and writing, directing, and photography follow suit...since it is so difficult to actually make a living on acting alone, i am hoping i can bring in my bit of income via photograhy (as i am really getting burned out at my present job). i will definitely follow my heart and stick to what i love, which is what has brought me to it in the first place.

on another note, i got an paid acting gig! i auditioned for the guest lead for an episode of law and order, it was between me and my friend, and my friend got the role. they said that they liked me so much that they wrote a scene for me...so i'll be on the screen for a few minutes and will get this great experience in! i have a costume fitting on monday and we shoot on tuesday. i'll be sure and let you know when it airs, so you can see me on tv if you want and if you have cable. (it's on NBC).

DH is going in again for the editing job, so that looks positive, though somewhat slow. soon he will be able to get on the phone again to try to get backing again for his movie. what a world we work in! what a crazy industry...

and gunter, where abroad are you thinking of going? DH and i are always dreaming and semi-seriously talking of doing this . we really want to, and would be doing it now, if it weren't for our careers, which really depend on the states for potential and opportunity...we are hoping to get to a place where we can go abroad for a few years and continue our careers, but need to build up and get a bit more stability before we can do that.

and kaspirant and gunter, india sounds amazing!!! i wish i could go too! kaspirant, so sorry your little one is so sick...and that you are struggling with the work/stay at home stuff.

helen, that farm looks precious. i want to go! DH and i are toying with the idea of taking a vacation this summer to the UK for a week or two, (before finley is 2 and we don't have to pay for his ticket) and if we do, we'll have to pop over! enjoy the snow today!

hi sarahcecile and lunchbox!

amy, hope you are continuing to get better sleep this week.

so much more to catch up, but must get back to work.

will continue to check in to see how you're doing, DiD!


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## Gunter (May 5, 2005)

kaspirant- so hard to have to be away when your babe is sick. sorry. i do hope that you can stay home soon. do you have a date in mind for when you can? last summer, we bought a cheaper house and sold ours for a profit that would be an annual salary for me. financially, that helps us not worry about me not working full-time. i just am starting to do doula work now; i did work back when ez was 2-6 months just to finish up a project i had started before she was born. anyway, i say all this just hoping that it will work out for you soon! and, i hope your babe gets well. ez was sick last week/weekend and is kinda still recovering.

sarahcecile and amy- i am currently reading "unconditional parenting". it's taken me a minute to catch up to his philosophy but i am really glad for it! it's changing the way we parent, for sure and just helping us understand the potential implications for things we say/do with ez. this may sound odd but there is a strong spiritual element that i see in unconditional parenting. it's the way i view god as being to the universe...unconditional. so, i am being challenged in that realm by reading this book and hoping to not be such a horrible spiritual mama that ez grows up to hate all faith stuff/god concept. hope that's not too OT.

yay for mamas with snow! i am so jealous! we have only had two different days when it snowed. each day, it melted into slush before afternoon. ugh.

last night, we went out for margaritas and then bowling with a group of friends. how can you tell if you haven't gotten out in a while? if bowling is the best time ever!!!


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

barcelona, you're coming to the UK?









I know it's unfair that I'm checking the computer every couple of hours for baby news, but I'm excited. And bored. And the kids are driving me crazy. AND it's raining- well, it would, it's England. The snow was pretty this morning, though.


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## barcelona (May 1, 2006)

helen. maybe, maybe. i don't know if we'll really be able to pull if off but we are talking about it. if we get more serious about it, i might be PMing you for advice and suggestions









i'm bored, too (at work) and checking in for baby news too.









sorry it's raining the snow away...at least you got some white beauty this morning.


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## Gunter (May 5, 2005)

DID-thinking positive thoughts for this labor of love that you are in right now.

helen- how annoying about the school. i would be so angry. so, i don't really know how mid-wifery is organized in the UK. are you getting licensed through a certain organization? how are you going about doing your training? i am curious. i just started the doula certification thing here and way in the back of my mind i wonder if i could ever be a mid-wife. also, can i send you some burt's bees stuff? i don't still have your addy so pm me if you want.

peacefulmommy- my screen name is just my last name. talk about boring. what are you going to change it to be? sometimes i could definitely fit the screen name "ragemommy" or "reallyangrymommy" vs. peacefulmommy.

barcelona-please don't forget us little people when you are famous. congrats! perhaps i should send you my address and we should get your autograph now?


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Well Helen I've already updated you but everyone else should know I got a little rest after my last post, got up to go to the bathroom and had a ton of bloody mucus and have had bloody show since. So there are definitely changes happening, though not nearly as fast as I'd like. At least I'm not drop dead tired, though I'm going on 2 days of half as much sleep as I normally like. Hopefully today.


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## barcelona (May 1, 2006)

Oh, DiD, I hope it's today! So glad you got some rest.


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## *Amy* (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gunter* 
peacefulmommy- my screen name is just my last name. talk about boring.

Tell me about it. Boringsville, population: me. I've thought about changing my screen name too but the name that I wanted was already taken. Hmph!

DiD, I am so super excited for you!!

barcelona, how awesome that you got a part on L&O. I will definitely be watching!!

Gunter I want to respond more to your post about UP by my little helper here keeps trying to type. You can just call me "annoyedmommy" for now.







:


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## Phoenix_Rising (Jun 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spiritmomma* 
My birthday is later this month. I'm turning 29.

Me too









Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
I passed another embryo and some more clots yesterday- but mercifully, I haven't started the hormonal rollercoaster again, and the bleeding has finally slowed down to a manageable level.

How hard! I'm glad that you are not having the roller coaster - that totally sucks to deal with. Hugs to you.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *peacefulmommy* 
Ok. So I just want you all to know that I am seriously thinking of changing my screen name. This name is just not suiting me right now. I don't feel like much of anything is "peaceful" in my life these days.

I hope you are ok.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DreamsInDigital* 
Well Helen I've already updated you but everyone else should know I got a little rest after my last post, got up to go to the bathroom and had a ton of bloody mucus and have had bloody show since. So there are definitely changes happening, though not nearly as fast as I'd like. At least I'm not drop dead tired, though I'm going on 2 days of half as much sleep as I normally like. Hopefully today.

I'm glad you got some rest








Oh, and I hope baby comes soon!


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## Bex80 (Feb 8, 2004)

I'm here but exhasted and out of it as Abigail just had her first case of the pukies. Kind of poetic justice seeing that I literally laughed aloud when I read, was is kaspirants's? post about how much vomit a shelf bra holds.

She was sick about 2 am and again about 230. We snuggled and rested and checked on here for babynews from DID and advice on what to feed a baby after she vomits. Good ol' breastmilk stayed down pretty well. She had another little and I mean tiny, episode around 730 and have had no more since, PTL. I get so shaken when my kids get sick. I feel so helpless and all of my mothering confidence goes out the window. I feel reduced to nothing, it's so awful how emotional I get.

Anyway, I'll be checking in for the big news...DID--Hang in there mama!! Soon, soon, soon!
















In the meantime I've got to grab a shower while she sleeps. Poor babe.


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## sarahcecile (Mar 3, 2004)

Hey *Brynn* and *Gunter*, The UP discussion group is actually local. I'm really lucky to know a bunch of Mamas who have read it and been moved by it. When we first started reading it DH and I were both really thrown off and defensive about the idea - not so much of not punishing - but of not praising, or giving time outs. But after reading the book we feel really strongly about the concept. There is a book called Raising Our Children Raising Ourselves that is supposed to be a great companion piece and apparently gives less theory and more real world applications. *Gunter* I understand entirely what you mean about the spiritual aspect.

*DID* Your labor sound a lot like mine - and I have a girl! Have faith, it did end, and you can make it. I'm hoping the babe is already here by this posting. Good Luck!

- Sarah


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## MelW (Jan 13, 2005)

Checking in on the DID labor news.... lots of easy labor vibes headed your way!!! I'm so excited for you









Enjoy your snow, itsybitsy & Helen!

And







to all of the sick and puking babies (and their puked on mamas)! I hope you're all feeling better soon.

My screen name is just my boring name, too. I've debated about changing it, but haven't come up with anything terrific yet.


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Just updating to tell you there's no update. No changes. Slept a little more, tried to eat but I just feel nauseated. Ugh.


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

DID: thinking of you!!

our news..we got a bunny! check it out..
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=612615


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

DiD: hug

I'm going to bed now, and I'm going to have some lovely high oxytocin levels and send them all your way. And then you're going to have a baby, and she'll be wonderful.
Another random prediction: I think she'll be smaller than Winter, but long. At least 23 inches.


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

I don't think I'm really pregnant. I think I have imagined the entire thing. Baby? What baby?


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## SoulJourney (Sep 26, 2005)

Awwww...DiD...hang in there, mama, she'll be in your arms before you know it.









Fern: What a sweet bunny! Elwynn looks like such a big boy in that picture!

Barcelona: I'll definitely PM you soon. Photography has always been my passion I just wish that I would have stayed true to myself from the beginning and shot what I loved. I've seen your site for Finley...you have some great shots! I think you'll do just fine. Too bad we don't live near each other, I would love to partner up with someone. I don't ever watch tv but keep us posted and I'll try to check you out!

re: the name change: If my life WERE peaceful right now, I would embrace it 100%. However, it just isn't. I can relate to Annoyedmommy, frustratedmommy, i'mgoingthroughsomeseriouslifechangesmommy or any other similar names.







I requested the name SoulJourney, so here's hoping that's what shows up in place of Peacefulmommy soon. It's the name of a Gillian Welch album but really it kinds of speaks for where I'm at right now.

Completely OT, but have any of you ever felt like you had PPD oh, say, 14 months AFTER giving birth?







: I don't think that I really am depressed, I just feel like I really need to regain a sense of self again. I feel like I am pouring 1,000% into Noah and my tank is really on empty. But enough about me...

Where's that baby, DiD????


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## barcelona (May 1, 2006)

OH NO, peacefulmommy! Did I get you confused with spiritmama again?! I think it's cause I know you both live in the same town and you both have spirit/peace and the mommy...I'm sorry. Regardless, would love to talk more/share on photography. Forgive my confusion.

DiD. Hang in there! I know it's hard, though. Keep us posted. We're here for you, and sending all kinds of loving vibes your way...


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

DID--do you know what position the baby is in? I say this because I am wondering if doing knee-chest position (as in, hands-and-knees, but with your chest lower, resting on the bed, and your hiney in the air like ya just don't care!







) for about 45 minutes-one hour would change things. Sometimes if the baby is posterior or a little cockeyed or something, knee-chest will float the baby up out of the pelvis and that combined with the contractions will help the baby get anterior, or move a pesky arm out of the way, or just generally line things up better. Sometimes at the very least it can take the pressure off your cervix for a bit so you get a bit of rest.

I'll be checking in! If you need some phone support, PM me and I'll give you my number and you can call me in the middle of the night if you need some encouragement! I had a really long prodromal labor with Ella, and couldn't sleep but wasn't progressing, and I didn't want to disturb the midwife or my friend or my husband because I wasn't very far dilated and figured I'd need them more later. I was so exhausted and felt so alone--it was the worst part of my labor!! Luckily my sister is in a time zone that is three hours later, so I called her really early in the morning and it was so comforting. Just having her on the line, my contractions didn't hurt as much and were more manageable.


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## SoulJourney (Sep 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *barcelona* 
OH NO, peacefulmommy! Did I get you confused with spiritmama again?! I think it's cause I know you both live in the same town and you both have spirit/peace and the mommy...I'm sorry. Regardless, would love to talk more/share on photography. Forgive my confusion.

No problem...Spiritmomma is not such a bad person to be confused with!









Speaking of Spiritmomma...we missed you yesterday! Oh, and I think the amber teething necklace really is working! (In case you were thinking of getting one for Isa)


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Well, now that I am done dispensing unsolicited birthing advice, here's a bit from me.

Not-so-peacefulmommy, I can relate--I'll fight ya for "going through some serious life changes mommy" as a username, lol! I am feeling really depressed right now. I feel like I am not getting any time for myself right now, and I'm not feeling like I'm doing such a great job as a mommy at this very moment either.

I think we're in a transitional phase here--she is just on the cusp of walking, took a few steps yesterday from a chair to me. I think she's sort of frustrated, and working on the final balancing part, and also getting a molar. So she is going through some stuff right at the moment when I am going through some stuff, and it's a tough time. I am finding myself sticking her in the jumperoo in front of a sign language DVD, which she loves and keeps her entertained and quiet and happy, just so I can get anything done and have a few moments of relative peace. But I don't really feel good about her watching much TV at all, so the guilt factor is strong and totally competing with the strong need for a little bit of a break. I swear that I have been fantasizing about getting some minimum wage evening job, working in a coffeshop or waitressing or something, just to get the hell out of the house and feel like I have a little bit of an adult life.

I am also having a really hard emotional time about the prospect of moving. It is still far enough away and uncertain enough that I can't really get too much into action mode, but it's close enough to be very real and present too. We won't have a formal offer until sometime late March or April, and will probably be looking at June 1 or so for the move. It would be easier to be excited about moving if it were August or something--everyone in Arizona spends most of July and August wishing they lived somewhere, ANYWHERE, else other than the blazing hot, dry Sonoran desert. But in February we often sit in outdoor patios and drink coffee or margaritas in the beautiful sunshine, wearing tank tops and capri pants, and feel sorry for everyone else in the country (and world!) who doesn't live here! This is the most beautiful time of year here, and frankly, I didn't like the climate in Louisville at all. The entire three days we were there, the sun didn't come out at all, it was grey and gloomy and cloudy. In all the pictures of property listings there, all the pictures of the houses are taken on grey, gloomy, cloudy days. So my overall impression is of depressing weather. This was underscored as we are thinking about what to do with our house here, and our realtor sent us listings of comparable properties, with pictures. All the houses looked so bright and sunny!! It made me want to cry. Actually, later I did cry.

I have also become aware of another, lesser-known risk of homebirth--it makes it very hard to contemplate selling your house! This is my first house, and I bought it all by myself, met my husband, we married and he moved in, we conceived our baby here, I gave birth to her here, and I was looking forward to raising her here. It is making me feel actual grief to consider selling it. We met with a realtor last night, and it is just making me really, really sad.







I also don't know what kind of place we'll end up living in, and feel like since we're going to be renting there, we won't really be able to settle in in the same way as were are settled here.







I shouldn't whine, we're lucky to have a home and we are lucky to have this opportunity, but I'm just sort of feeling at sea and having a real sense of loss.


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## spiritmomma (Aug 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *peacefulmommy/ SoulJourney*
Completely OT, but have any of you ever felt like you had PPD oh, say, 14 months AFTER giving birth? I don't think that I really am depressed, I just feel like I really need to regain a sense of self again. I feel like I am pouring 1,000% into Noah and my tank is really on empty. But enough about me...

Um.... I am SO with you on this one. Joshua is in school this weekend (Friday evening after work, 10 to 6 Saturday, 10 to 6 Sunday, Back to work Monday...) so I'm getting no relief. Not that I should complain, considering I get relief 3 weekends a month... But yeah. Life changes. Sleeplessness. Crabby Hormone Changey Stuff. I hear you. I really do. To quote David Byrne, "Who am I? How did I get here?"

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kavita*
I feel like I am not getting any time for myself right now, and I'm not feeling like I'm doing such a great job as a mommy at this very moment either.

I feel this sentiment too. Isa's not feeling super well and we've not slept well lately. Me worse than she. Her sleep has been super restless and I can't sleep next to her for all the kicking, tossing, and turning. I can't sleep away from her due to the crying, wailing, moaning...







: I am SO effen tired that I am meaner than I need to be (is there a shame smiley? This one will do:







) Then I fall into the tailspin of "I am a horrible mother...I hate myself...Isa still loves me and I don't deserve it...But I'm so tired..." Sheesh. It's hard to believe more than 2 hours of uninterrupted sleep could remedy such a guilt trip, but I beleive it can. I really do.

DiD: Thinking of you and knowing you'll be holding your darling daughter soon! I hope things are progressing at just the right pace...

Well, ladies, I'm off to bed before my eyes dry up and turned permanently stoned looking from lack of sleep... Nighty night!


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## Phoenix_Rising (Jun 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *peacefulmommy* 
re: the name change: If my life WERE peaceful right now, I would embrace it 100%. However, it just isn't. I can relate to Annoyedmommy, frustratedmommy, i'mgoingthroughsomeseriouslifechangesmommy or any other similar names.







I requested the name SoulJourney, so here's hoping that's what shows up in place of Peacefulmommy soon. It's the name of a Gillian Welch album but really it kinds of speaks for where I'm at right now.

Completely OT, but have any of you ever felt like you had PPD oh, say, 14 months AFTER giving birth?







: I don't think that I really am depressed, I just feel like I really need to regain a sense of self again. I feel like I am pouring 1,000% into Noah and my tank is really on empty.

I like SoulJourney







- but I am sending wishes for peace your way.

And yes, I do feel like I've got PPD. Still.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kavita* 
DID--do you know what position the baby is in? I say this because I am wondering if doing knee-chest position (as in, hands-and-knees, but with your chest lower, resting on the bed, and your hiney in the air like ya just don't care!







) for about 45 minutes-one hour would change things. Sometimes if the baby is posterior or a little cockeyed or something, knee-chest will float the baby up out of the pelvis and that combined with the contractions will help the baby get anterior, or move a pesky arm out of the way, or just generally line things up better. Sometimes at the very least it can take the pressure off your cervix for a bit so you get a bit of rest.

I remember this totally helped when I was in labor. It felt like SH*T at the time and I thought I was going to puke but didn't. And then once I got up from that position the labor was definately more manageable.


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Okay hoping this is really it. I've been having *really* painful contractions the last 2 hours. They are getting very intense. Started at every 15 minutes, now about every 8 minutes. I'll keep you guys posted, of course.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Huh, that was weird. It took an hour to post the message.

DiD, I'm excited







But then you knew that.

Susannah, my PPD with Isaac didn't really start clearing until the April after his first birthday: so when he was about 20 months old. I think he was weaned at that point as well? It's weird, because Steve and I were already together at that point and he can see the difference between how I am with Skye now and how I was with Isaac (and Alex) then.


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Susannah M* 
I remember this totally helped when I was in labor. It felt like SH*T at the time and I thought I was going to puke but didn't. And then once I got up from that position the labor was definately more manageable.

Yes, it's not the most comfy at the time. But it's one of the more valuable tricks I learned in my midwifery apprenticeship--if done early in labor it can really help correct positioning. I didn't do it myself though I don't think--just one of the many reasons I'm not so into UC--no matter how much of an expert you are about birth, your brain just doesn't work right in some ways when you are in labor. And more to the point, when your analytical brain IS working well, that inhibits your labor. My midwife was 2 hours away, and so I spent most of my labor not wanting to call her because I didn't want her to have to be trapped at my house for two days or anything, with the result that I was ending up trying to be my own midwife and troubleshoot my own labor, which was not progressing. Which sort of interfered in some ways with being a laboring woman. OTOH I do think that at some points I was an excellent "labor coach" for myself, lol! I distinctly remember being in the later more intense stages of dilation and sort of flipping between being the crazy laboring mom, and the calm, knowing midwife. Like I kept having this inner dialogue like, "AACK, I don't like this, I don't want to do this" and then telling myself, "You can do this. You ARE doing this!! You're doing great! Make low deep sounds deep in your throat . . . " "wooooowwwwww . . . . " It was kind of trippy!


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Oh, some happy (I think, lol!) news since this evening, is that it looks like Ella is indeed starting walking before she hits the seventh grade!!







Last night she had taken a couple of steps over to me, but she's done that before and sort of looked relieved that she survived doing something that daring, never replicated it independently. Now, earlier tonight, she took off and walked several steps (at least four or five) over to DH without hanging on to anything! And then he got so excited and was making a big fuss over it, so she wanted to try it again. So it got to where she kept going over, standing up without hanging on to anything, getting her balance, and then looking at him and starting clapping with this big smile on her face! Then she'd take a couple of hesitant steps, then stop and start clapping with this big excited grin! It was very cute! It was a really exciting game for her all of a sudden, and she walked over to him unsupported from several feet away at least ten times! Best of all, we actually got it on video too!


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Go Ella!!!

Well, if I have my time differences right then it's about 6am in Vancouver, and DiD's gone quiet. So she's either asleep or in hard labour, and either is a good thing


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## *Amy* (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *peacefulmommy/SoulJourney* 
I just feel like I really need to regain a sense of self again. I feel like I am pouring 1,000% into Noah and my tank is really on empty.

Yes, I can totally relate. TOTALLY. Lately though I have been really making an effort to start creating some healthy boundaries for myself, such as not holding Brynn on my lap while I'm eating. I know, it sounds like a little thing, but I had let myself become totally resentful of her during dinner time because she is such a little maniac that I can never *enjoy* eating my meal. So now, she either sits in the high chair, or DH holds her. If she asks to nurse while I'm eating, which she inevitably does, I tell her that she has to wait until I'm done eating. For me, I know that my red flag is when I start to feel sorry for myself; that's where I go when I am overly-tired and I'm not getting/giving anything back to myself. Realizing that has helped me to figure out ways that I can take a little better care of me. I do think it's time though; we've all been giving 100 million percent for over a year now; it's starting to take its toll.

UGH. I want to say so much more, but really need to go be an attentive Mama.

DiD, I hope you are holding your sweet babe in your arms right now!!!!!


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

A really boring link


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

:


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Oh, I'm so glad DiD has her baby safe & sound!!!

We are doing ok - I'm feeling a bit tired as Rowan has emerged from her cold & teething spell waking every 2 hours again... so we're going to try her sleeping on the couch for a bit again. We'll get it sorted out eventually.

Yesterday at work we had an "all-hands" meeting where they told us that we were doing a good job and meeting/beating our targets etc. and then everyone got to go over to the pub nearby and have beer and appies on the company. Nice! I don't know how long it's been since I've been able to sit in a pub and drink a pint of beer. I enjoyed it. Then I took off early so I could go to the healthfood store on my way home and still get home in time to make dinner before DH & DD got back. Then, to top off my decadent day, I popped over to a friend's house to watch Survivor after Rowan went to sleep. I haven't done that for a while either!

Fern, your bunny is cuuuuute.

Kavita - that's great about Ella walking!!! I give you about two days until the novelty wears off and you're wishing she was immobile again









I hope all the sick babies are feeling better.


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spughy* 
Kavita - that's great about Ella walking!!! I give you about two days until the novelty wears off and you're wishing she was immobile again










yeah no kidding! ngaio is into everything! it makes me







:
nak..


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## eirual (Mar 21, 2006)

Hooray for DiD!!!

Kavita, I'm still waiting on my Hunter to take off on me.

What a wonderful group of women you all are, thank you for letting me participate in the group!


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eirual* 
What a wonderful group of women you all are, thank you for letting me participate in the group!









Aw, thanks!







BTW it's nice to have another Canadian mama in the group, since Mel abandoned us







(abandoned Canada I mean, she's still with us here...)


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## MelW (Jan 13, 2005)

Abandoned? I'm just down here trying to convert these folks to socialism. And to have all of my posts and e-mails tracked by the lovely folks at the department of homeland security- who have all of my stats on record









I said it on the announcement thread, but congrats DID (and family) and welcome Suriya!

And way to go with the walking, Ella!

I have a theory about the PPD/ identity crisis that happens after a year- I feel like I was pretty absorbed by being "Neela'smama" for the first year after her birth, then suddenly looked at my walking, talking other person and had a while of being "identitycrisismama" (name already taken on MDC) where I had to figure out again where the boundaries of me were, so to speak. Who am I when I'm not Neela's mama, or who am I _besides_ that role. It's interesting that so many of our online names are "somethingmama"- it's a big part of our identities, but not all of it. I like souljourney- and I







Gillian Welsh.

I feel like I'm doing much better on the whole identity issue now- moving here and losing my support system and living in flux for a couple of months was really challenging- I feel like I withdrew into my relationship with Neela at the expense of finding other outlets and relationships with other adults. It was pretty awful, in retrospect. I'm feeling much more balanced now.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Hmm? What did we do to deserve that, Laurie?

Spughy, I'm glad to see you're still drinking proper beer







What's an appie, btw?


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## Queen of Cups (Aug 29, 2003)

In a slightly drunken email to a friend last night I wrote about how I'm so frustrated with life right now because I'm finally not pregnant or postpartum for the first time in a few years. And now I just want to be ME, but I'm stuck packing up a house, working on taxes, and cleaning. Its a weird middle-ground to be in, especially since we want to have more kids. I'm in a limbo-period here between rounds of kids. I finally feel like myself and look like myself, but I'm not able to really BE myself. Does that make any sense?


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## Bex80 (Feb 8, 2004)

Quick call for suggestions...nak...baby on upside of tummy bug, no vomit since yest., occ. diahrrea, nursing non stop.

ketones in urine yesterday,trying to start back solids, other fluids.

won't eat much other than a cracker or sliver of banana, wants nothing to do with pedialyte, recharge. Drank some diluted juice but had huge diahrrea after.

is just nuring okay? she doesnt have much fat to spare, barely 17 lbs here at 14 months. Help!


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MelW* 
Abandoned? I'm just down here trying to convert these folks to socialism. And to have all of my posts and e-mails tracked by the lovely folks at the department of homeland security- who have all of my stats on record









Oh you're a Canadian *agent*.







ok then. Keep up the good work!

I hear y'all about the 1-year PPD. For me it was kind of opposite - I wasn't ready to STOP being "Rowan's mummy" before I was forced back to work and had to reestablish my professional persona...now I feel torn between two "me"s and I feel like if I give too much to one role I'm taking something away from the other. Although to be honest, I feel a LOT worse about taking time away from Rowan to work than the other way around, but I still feel some guilt if I leave work 10 minutes early if I know Rowan hasn't had a good nap and will need to get to bed earlier.

Being a modern mummy is HARD. I never planned to be a working mom, I thought DH would be done his thesis and working by this time and I wouldn't have to work full-time.







But he is doing his best, and I don't want to add to his stress by screaming "JUST FINISH THE DAMN THING AND GET A JOB" like I kind of want to.


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## Queen of Cups (Aug 29, 2003)

Nurse her as much as possible! Breastmilk has more calories per ounce than any other food/drink (except possibly avocado and a very few other really dense foods, but you wouldn't be giving those to a sick baby anyway). Its also gentler on the system than any other food, and won't irritate her throat if she vomits or her intestines if she has diarrhea. If you can pinch the skin on her hand and it stays pulled-up in a pinched position after you let go, that's a good sign that she's VERY dehydrated and its time to seek medical attention. As long as she's hydrated, though, try not to worry too much. But, that's easier said than done! Most babies will nurse for comfort even when they don't want to eat or drink, and that's a big part of why breastfed babies have to be hospitalized so much less often than formula-fed or weaned infants.


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Bex - nursing is THE BEST thing for your baby now. Nurse nurse nurse - it'll get nutrition and liquids into her better than anything else.


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
Spughy, I'm glad to see you're still drinking proper beer







What's an appie, btw?

I am a proud supporter of the Campaign for Real Ale







Appies are appetizers - pub food, the deep-fried zucchini sticks, chicken wings, potato skins, quesadillas... I'm trying to remember if the UK had any such things last time I was there... I don't think so, but every time I try to reminisce my brain gets stuck on a superb raisin beer (sounds weird, but tasted amazing) I had in some little Scottish town along with a dismal venison burger... never mind...


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Yes, I know raisin beer. Caledonian, right? (speaks the former secretary of the local branch of CAMRA.) We don't do appies, though, we do pub sandwiches and pickled eggs.


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spughy* 
I am a proud supporter of the Campaign for Real Ale







Appies are appetizers - pub food, the deep-fried zucchini sticks, chicken wings, potato skins, quesadillas... I'm trying to remember if the UK had any such things last time I was there... I don't think so, but every time I try to reminisce my brain gets stuck on a superb raisin beer (sounds weird, but tasted amazing) I had in some little Scottish town along with a dismal venison burger... never mind...

Hmm, that's disappointing, I was thinking it was some exotic Canadian delicacy!









Yes, I do know that Ella will be getting into everything. But, she's getting into everything as it is, she'll been crusing and pushing the ottoman and her little pus-toy and chairs and everything else around for a long time now. She turns on the dryer (buttons are on the front panel) and the microwave and the stereo and everything else! I think the major difference will be the speed with which she will be able to get into everything! Mostly though I am just tired of her pants being so dirty from her crawling on the floor all the time--she pulls her left leg in front of her in a weird horizontal sort of way, and I swear the girl is like a human Swiffer!









Yay DID! Congrats on your baby girl!!!! I'll be looking forward to hearing the story, although based on the fact that you last posted about a couple of hours before having her, I think we can infer at least the outlines of it, that your labor progressed really fast and that within a couple of hours you were complete and pushing and the baby came out!!


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

I've updated the birth announcement thread with pics and a full story.
But I am wiped out and must go lay down.
Love to you mamas, thank you so much for all your support.


----------



## spiritmomma (Aug 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Amy**
Lately though I have been really making an effort to start creating some healthy boundaries for myself, such as not holding Brynn on my lap while I'm eating. I know, it sounds like a little thing, but I had let myself become totally resentful of her during dinner time because she is such a little maniac that I can never *enjoy* eating my meal. So now, she either sits in the high chair, or DH holds her. If she asks to nurse while I'm eating, which she inevitably does, I tell her that she has to wait until I'm done eating. For me, I know that my red flag is when I start to feel sorry for myself; that's where I go when I am overly-tired and I'm not getting/giving anything back to myself. Realizing that has helped me to figure out ways that I can take a little better care of me. I do think it's time though; we've all been giving 100 million percent for over a year now; it's starting to take its toll.

I completely could have written this post Amy! I have noticed that when I put Isa first ALWAYS, I get resentful and hateful too. So now I just put her first MOST OF THE TIME, which is totally do-able for me and feels more age appropriate for her.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MelW*
I have a theory about the PPD/ identity crisis that happens after a year- I feel like I was pretty absorbed by being "Neela'smama" for the first year after her birth, then suddenly looked at my walking, talking other person and had a while of being "identitycrisismama" (name already taken on MDC) where I had to figure out again where the boundaries of me were, so to speak. Who am I when I'm not Neela's mama, or who am I besides that role. It's interesting that so many of our online names are "somethingmama"- it's a big part of our identities, but not all of it.

This post made me think of a Tori Amos song that I love... "Your Cloud"

Where the river cross
crosses
the lake
Where the words
Jump off my
pen and
into your pages
Do you think
just like that
You can divide
This
You as yours
Me as mine
to before we were
Us

If the rain
Has
to separate from
Itself
does it say
"pick out your
cloud?"
pick out your
cloud

If there is a Horizontal Line
that runs from the MAP
off your body straight through
the Land shooting up
right through my heart
Will this Horizontal Line
when asked know how to find
Where you end
where I begin
"pick out your
cloud"

How Light can
play and form a Ring
of Rain that can change
bows into arrows
(I found a thrill)

Who we were
isn't lost
Before we were
Us
Indigo in his
own
Blue always
knew
this
if the rain
Has
to separate from
Itself
does it say
pick out your
cloud

If there is a Horizontal Line
that runs from the MAP
off your body straight through
the Land shooting up
right through my heart
Will this Horizontal Line
when asked know how to find
Where you end
where I begin
"pick out your
cloud"

if the rain
Has
to separate from
Itself
does it say
pick out your
cloud

That song makes me cry all the time. How can we tell where one begins and the other ends? Honestly, when Isa has a booger, I pick my own nose!


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## Phoenix_Rising (Jun 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
Susannah, my PPD with Isaac didn't really start clearing until the April after his first birthday: so when he was about 20 months old. I think he was weaned at that point as well? It's weird, because Steve and I were already together at that point and he can see the difference between how I am with Skye now and how I was with Isaac (and Alex) then.

So if I follow those guidelines then I *only* have about 5 months left. I think I can handle that








Seriously though, if I feel like this still now how would it be for my emotions with another?! While I do want another child I cannot imagine the havoc it would wreak on my emotions.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kavita* 
Yes, it's not the most comfy at the time. But it's one of the more valuable tricks I learned in my midwifery apprenticeship--if done early in labor it can really help correct positioning. I didn't do it myself though I don't think--just one of the many reasons I'm not so into UC--no matter how much of an expert you are about birth, your brain just doesn't work right in some ways when you are in labor. And more to the point, when your analytical brain IS working well, that inhibits your labor. My midwife was 2 hours away, and so I spent most of my labor not wanting to call her because I didn't want her to have to be trapped at my house for two days or anything, with the result that I was ending up trying to be my own midwife and troubleshoot my own labor, which was not progressing. Which sort of interfered in some ways with being a laboring woman. OTOH I do think that at some points I was an excellent "labor coach" for myself, lol! I distinctly remember being in the later more intense stages of dilation and sort of flipping between being the crazy laboring mom, and the calm, knowing midwife. Like I kept having this inner dialogue like, "AACK, I don't like this, I don't want to do this" and then telling myself, "You can do this. You ARE doing this!! You're doing great! Make low deep sounds deep in your throat . . . " "wooooowwwwww . . . . " It was kind of trippy!









I was cracking up reading this! My DW kept asking "what? what?"

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MelW* 
Abandoned? I'm just down here trying to convert these folks to socialism. And to have all of my posts and e-mails tracked by the lovely folks at the department of homeland security- who have all of my stats on record









socialism. hmm. not a bad idea. *scratches head and ponders moving to canada or somewhere else other than the "good ole' US of A"*


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## SoulJourney (Sep 26, 2005)

CONGRATULATIONS LYDIA!!!

Kavita...Yay Ella for walking! Trust me, her pants are STILL going to get dirty from walking...it will just be in different areas!







I must say that I'm a tad jealous that you were able to have this much time without a walking babe! Noah's journey of full mobility began around 9 months and I haven't been able to sit down since then.

Laurie...







back at ya, mama! These mamas are great, aren't they?

Speaking of hugs...







Thanks for the support, mamas. Even though I wouldn't wish some of these feelings on anyone, it's kind of nice to know that I'm not the only one going through this, KWIM? I can relate to EVERYTHING you guys mentioned. One of you mentioned being so absorbed for the first year and it's absolutely true. I have been SO wrapped up in being "Noah's Mama" for the past year that it rarely even crossed my mind to want to do something for myself. Now, all of the sudden, it's like I am starting to bust out of this mama shell and I'm trying to grasp for any remnants left of ME. I really feel like I am such a horrible parent some days because I JUST. WANT. TO. BE. LEFT. ALONE. I would love to head out to the trails, go for a long mountain bike ride, then sit on a bar stool with a yummy, dark pint and a good book. While still in my dirty MTBing clothes! It sounds like such a dreamy day for me. I think that once spring rolls around things will be easier for me. And on top of it all, I am really starting to feel like I could use some *ahem* companionship. And not the kind I can get from you, spiritmomma!







I don't like having to think about wanting to date while I'm also trying to be a mama. Ugh.

Random thought...how long does it take for them to change a username, anyway???


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## Gunter (May 5, 2005)

kavita- yay for your babe to be walking! wow.

did- big huge congrats to you, mama! thanks for sharing those great pics, too! beautiful you and beautiful family.

ez surprised me by putting a couple of words together in sign language. she signed more and please together when she wanted more peas please. who knew?

speaking of food, she ate bites of a bagel, peas, rice, naan bread, and more peas today. hmmnnn...anyone else have a carb loading baby?


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## spiritmomma (Aug 29, 2005)

SoulJourney: Love the new name... and I totally know what you mean about wanting to be left alone.

There are days when I just look at Isa and say, "Mama needs some space. Can you play with that toy over there?" Or "Mama would be happy to read that book to you later. Can you read it by yourself first?"







: But then, she's usually fine to do that when I ask her. It's almost as if since the only thing she's ever known is super attachment, it hasn't occurred to her that there might be any other way to relate to a person. I'm aiming for a close, intimate relationship for a lifetime and sheesh, _I'm still learning that one._ But I think she's a quick learner and adapts well to changes in our relationship. It's hard to make such changes and I think she's remained incredibly fluid.

Kavita: Yay for a walking Ella! Now the fun begins anew! I'm really enjoying Isa's ability to walk. It keeps me from being quite so sedentary around the house!


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## SoulJourney (Sep 26, 2005)

YAAAAY! I'm SoulJourney!!!







Me likes it!


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## Bex80 (Feb 8, 2004)

Lydia, she's gorgeous!!! You did so great, mama, you look so beautiful in all your powerful birthing glory.
















Yay!!


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## Gunter (May 5, 2005)

for all the mamas feeling a little overwhelmed, i am there with you. i can feel so suffocated by having someone on top of me or needing me all the time. i don't want to work full-time but i find myself wanting to just go out and sit at a coffee shop to read or something. but, in the evenings i would miss time with DH if i did this regularly. i do need to find some balance though and get out by myself more often. at least dh is a co-parent. he doesn't see it as babysitting and takes total care of ez from diaper changes to baths to play to helping her eat, et... i don't know how i would manage otherwise.

i don't know about you all but there are so few people that i would trust with ez care. i get frustrated enough when people are around us calling her "sweetie" every other word or telling her "good job" when she so much as blinks or other things like gender based bullshutt. ugh. leaving her alone for a few hours with someone like that would not be great for my sanity or help me relax, either. how do you all leave your babes with people you trust...like, who is that in your life and how did you find them?

today, we saw the "vagina monologues". i went with high expectations and was totally let down. it just wasn't presented how i thought it would have been. for example, the two references or so to birth were not vagina centric or even showing the power and glory of the vagina. a few other things bothered me, too. the parts that really hit me hard and were important for me to hear were the ones about the japanese "comfort women" and about the village analogy. have any of you all seen it? thoughts?


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gunter* 

i don't know about you all but there are so few people that i would trust with ez care. i get frustrated enough when people are around us calling her "sweetie" every other word or telling her "good job" when she so much as blinks or other things like gender based bullshutt. ugh. leaving her alone for a few hours with someone like that would not be great for my sanity or help me relax, either. how do you all leave your babes with people you trust...like, who is that in your life and how did you find them?

today, we saw the "vagina monologues". i went with high expectations and was totally let down. it just wasn't presented how i thought it would have been. for example, the two references or so to birth were not vagina centric or even showing the power and glory of the vagina. a few other things bothered me, too. the parts that really hit me hard and were important for me to hear were the ones about the japanese "comfort women" and about the village analogy. have any of you all seen it? thoughts?

Vagina monologues--I read it and was just not that into it. I didn't find it that revolutionary or empowering, at all. Then again, I was a midwife already by the time I read it, so vagina was already a little old hat for me!









I have a few people who I let babysit Ella. One is my midwife's daughter who is 21. She's not even that into babysitting normally, but Ella just adores her and she is really good with Ella and likes babysitting her. So once in a while she will sit for her. Another is a good friend of mine. She doesn't have any children but has worked a lot with foster children and developmentally disabled people, and is a pretty devoted auntie to her nephews, and now to Ella too. She knows a lot of signs and I like it because I feel that she understands what Ella is trying to say or what she wants almost as well as we can. I have one more babysitter, and she is the daughter of our Kundalini yoga teacher. She's 15, and babysits some other kids, but because of her age/lack of experience I don't feel comfortable leaving Ella with her alone for long periods of time, or in the evening when she is grouchier, or for me to go anywhere that I'm more than a few minutes away in case I am needed. However, she is very sweet and energetic and upbeat, and Ella loves playing with her, so I have her come for a couple of hours after school every few weeks, so I can do stuff around the house and actually concentrate, or run out somewhere right nearby for a few minutes. I guess the common thread with two of these people, is that they are daughters of mothers I trust and whose parenting I admire, and I see that they have picked up some of that behavior that has been modeled for them. The other person is a good friend of mine, and although her style is different than mine, I know that she really loves Ella and takes good care of her and could totally manage an emergency, and they enjoy their time together, so I feel very comfortable leaving Ella in her care. It's important to me too that I feel like people will follow my requests too--for example, if she fusses or cries to try to solve whatever problem (hungry, wet diaper, tired, etc.) before calling me, but if she is crying inconsolably for more than a few minutes, I want to be called so I can come home. I don't leave Ella with a sitter often--no more than a few hours a month. But I'm very lucky because she is fine with being left with any of these people--she loves the attention from a different person, and will happily hug them and wave "bye bye" to me, sometimes I think she needs an occasional break from me as much as I need an occasional break from her! I wouldn't leave her with a sitter she didn't like, no matter how competent I thought they were. And at least for right now, it doesn't seem to work well to leave her with other moms and their kids--once I left her with a friend of mine whose baby is the same age while I went to the dentist. She (Ella) was fine for a while but toward the end she was tired and probably ready for a nap. The other mom nursed her kiddo, and Ella saw the other kid nursing and just lost it and started crying.







I think she suddenly realized that her mommy wasn't there to nurse her.







She spent the next 45 minutes fussing and crying on and off until I got home.

Oh, the part about praise cracked me up, because just this evening DH and I went for ice cream and there was a couple there with three kids ranging from about 4-7, I think one might have been their nephew, but it was kind of fun to observe their parenting as a model of how we DON'T want to parent. One highlight was that the one kid finished his ice cream, and came up and was talking about how he finished his ice cream, and the mom was like, "Good job, you finished your ice cream!!" in that enthusiastic fake-praise tone. She said "Good job!" to something else too, I think it might have been repeating about the ice cream but I didn't catch it. It was really funny but sad too--like, first of all, do you really want to teach your kids to finish whatever they eat? Second, what is so impressive about the accomplishment of eating a dish of ice cream that it requires praise?







: I mean, it's not exactly a hardship that the child has overcome!! It's ICE CREAM, people!! One of the other kids also accidentally dropped his ice cream on the floor, when he had barely eaten one spoonful. The dad made a big point of how he wasn't getting another ice cream, and repeated a couple of times in this stern voice, "You're done, buddy. No more ice cream for you." Then they went and got him another ice cream. I mean, if it was an accident I would just get the kid another ice cream, so I don't know why he made a big point of being punitive and saying they weren't going to get more. But then once that was said, I would also actually NOT get more ice cream. I am certainly not a perfect parent--there are plenty of things that I do that could use some improvement. But I sort of wondered, do these people think about what they are saying to their kids at all?







:


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

yep: the praise thing drives me nuts. The breastfeeding support group I help run meets in a childrens centre, and on one of the walls is a list of 101 things to say to your kids, like:
wow, you did a great job, partner
that was fantastic!
(and on, and on, and on)
One of our favourite bored,whyarewetheonlybreastfeedingmothers arewefreaks games is to quote these at each other. Sad, I know.

Gunter, the people that we leave Skye with most (which is still, you know, hardly ever) are the families with older kids where I know the mum well, and know how she parents her older children: so the first person I rang for help with the hospital appointment was the breastfeeding counsellor I run breastmates with and we see at least a couple of times every week. If she couldn't have done it, there's another two or three people that I'd have trusted to be there for us at that time. IME, building a support network is much easier with older children than in the baby years: which is ridiculous, because that's the time when you need them most- but through parenting your children, and in particular watching how other people parent their kids and knowing the kind of stuff they think is important you can build a strong network. So my bf Shonaidh, I met initially because her husband is a shameless flirt, then she carried her newborn in a wilkinet, then Isaac came home and announced that her daughter refused to do something at school because it was sexist, and I knew we were on to a winner. (the kids were 5 at the time







) I'd trust her completely: when someone looks after your breastfed baby and tells you upfront "bring breastmilk" you know that this is someone who respects themselves and will respect your kids.
I stage managed a production of VM a few years ago: I think that we're not the target audience any more. There's a lot of women out there who have been raised to believe that their bodies are bad, or dirty, or broken- certainly, my mothers generation- and I know that when she and the ladies went to see it, they found it disturbing and uncomfortable. I do believe that it's an important piece of social history though, and we should support it and keep it in our theatres to remind us.


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

I am so proud of Winter. He is being SO SWEET to baby Suriya. It makes me cry. He gives her these big open-mouthed kisses and lays his head on her and says "Awww..." He is madly in love with her, although he really likes to grab her face. Once I finish off the roll of film in my camera I'll post pics of him loving on her. It is the most amazing wonderful thing. He's suddenly looking so big to me. I still call him Baby Winter though and I think I always will.


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## spiritmomma (Aug 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gunter* 
i don't know about you all but there are so few people that i would trust with ez care. i get frustrated enough when people are around us calling her "sweetie" every other word or telling her "good job" when she so much as blinks or other things like gender based bullshutt. ugh. leaving her alone for a few hours with someone like that would not be great for my sanity or help me relax, either. how do you all leave your babes with people you trust...like, who is that in your life and how did you find them?

I try to say things other than _good job_ when I want to praise Isa for something that I think is a real accomplishment. I figure I can't get everyone else to stop saying to her for ridiculous things, so I might as well NOT use it so she knows I mean it and so it won't float in one ear and out the other. I also hate it when people over praise. It's so irritating. I want to do it to the parents... "good job! I'm so glad you picked up your crying baby!" "good job! Thanks for flushing the potty!" "Good job paying your bills!" I think if I perfected my toddler-ese inflection, it just might change the world.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *gunter*
today, we saw the "vagina monologues". i went with high expectations and was totally let down. it just wasn't presented how i thought it would have been. for example, the two references or so to birth were not vagina centric or even showing the power and glory of the vagina. a few other things bothered me, too. the parts that really hit me hard and were important for me to hear were the ones about the japanese "comfort women" and about the village analogy. have any of you all seen it? thoughts?

All I can say is read the book. It made me cry. I can't speak for any presentations on stage or video since I've never seen it, but the book was amazingly powerful. Also, if you want a real empowerment book, read Inga Musico's _Cunt._ This book is no foolin' around. It will make you LOVE your magical vulva and make you want to take back the sacred word Cunt and denounce the word "vagina"... (in case you're wondering, all you feminists, vagina translated means "sheath for a sword" and my cunt does more stuff than that.)

Enjoy!


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## Phoenix_Rising (Jun 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gunter* 
leaving her alone for a few hours with someone like that would not be great for my sanity or help me relax, either. how do you all leave your babes with people you trust...like, who is that in your life and how did you find them?

The only one I have ever left KeaganRae with (besides DW) is my MIL. While it took awhile for her to understand how it is that we choose to parent I think she *gets* it now. She corrected herself the other day when she started to tell him he was naughty - instead told him to be nice and showed him what she wanted








It took probably 5 or 6 times of Keagan staying with MIL before I could really settle down enough to make it worth it. They both enjoy that time together and it is something I would not be able to do with him (they go to storytime at the library one day a week while I am at work).
Good luck in finding the person/persons that will work for your family!


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## MelW (Jan 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gunter* 
i don't know about you all but there are so few people that i would trust with ez care. i get frustrated enough when people are around us calling her "sweetie" every other word or telling her "good job" when she so much as blinks or other things like gender based bullshutt. ugh. leaving her alone for a few hours with someone like that would not be great for my sanity or help me relax, either. how do you all leave your babes with people you trust...like, who is that in your life and how did you find them?

I started working again in mid-November, so we found people out of necessity. Neela goes to a really terrific group daycare at the university for a couple of afternoons four days a week. We're really lucky- their philosophy matches ours really well; they cover breastmilk storage in parent orientation







She does really well with other kids there- I think they keep her distracted from the fact that mama and dad aren't there. More later... she's walking away with my mouse!


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## zjande (Nov 4, 2002)

Hi everyone!!








I'm sorry I've been MIA, thanks for wondering about me!







I am married





















, and am STILL trying to conceive. Reading up on our February thread(s) has filled up my computer time for the night.







I'll be back tomorrow to post a few pics (of the wedding, not the TTC *snicker*) & share my delicious wedding story. I really am sooo unbelievably blessed. It blows me away.

Helen! I'm so so sorry that you lost your baby.







:







:







: I feel such sadness for you & your family. I wish I could give you a real life hug.


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## SoulJourney (Sep 26, 2005)

YAAAAAAY Zjande! So good to see you, mama! I swear, you are just one BIG OLE ray of sunshine, lemme tell ya! I wish you were my IRL friend! Can't wait to hear about your wedding bliss and see pics!


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Whew! Juggling bedtimes has gotten quite complicated around here. Suriya woke Winter at 6:30 this morning, poor little guy. He gets such a concerned look on his face when she cries. He is really possessive of her, too. If anyone is holding her and won't put her down to his level so he can kiss her, he will grab her and try to pull her down himself. It's so sweet.
I am so on cloud nine. This is so much better than I ever imagined.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

spiritmomma, Skye has a copy of cunt on her bookshelf. I lent it (copy no1
) to a friend, whose teenage daughters read it, showed it to their friends, read it, talked about it, told their boyfriends about it and then, ultimately, lost it. How cool is that?
Having a daughter of my own, though, she needs it.
DiD







Alex watched your photos, ran downstairs, grabbed Isaac and showed him the pictures, and then they've been telling everyone how cool it is watching babies being born. I think you helped them recover from the trauma of watching at least an hour of homebirth diaries a day...
Zjande, I love you and miss you too, but I'm so glad your wedding went well. I'm healing- a lot of good stuff came out of this pregnancy, like
a few friends took a step closer to being good friends. Plus I found out just how bad my local hospital really is (but don't let me go there...) and now I know I'm UCing or hiring an independent midwife.


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Helen, even though Suriya's birth was hard, I am already thinking about when we can TTC again.







Do you have any ideas when you may try again? I'm hoping to do it on purpose this time and wait for when I'm ready rather than have an adorable baby just fall into my lap. I'm thinking maybe when she's about a year old or so. Is it possible to be addicted to babies? I am just so madly in love with my little ones.


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

zjande: *congratulations!!!







:*







sending you getting pregnant vibes!

Lydia:







bedtimes, i can only imagine! ngaio is such a night nurser..if she had to share her boobies she would be none too pleased....and probably never sleep!
i am totally amazed by your want for more babies so soon! i always felt like i NEVER wanted another one till about 6 months pp with elwynn and a 10 or 11 months pp with ngaio.. but _right now_ i definitely want 4 more







and long to be







but its unlikely to happen anytime soon









and your birth pictures are so beautiful. you and surya look just radiant. *sigh*

Helen: that is crappy about the local hospital..although i totally hear you on it. i myself hate hospitals and would be happy if i never had to step foot in one again..not that i ever had to go to one durring eithe rof my preg. or births, except to drop off a form incase of transfer.. but even them my blood pressure rose. i get all sick feeling in my belly and got all shaky. when i was a child i was very sick and spent months on end in one and it has never left me..the experience of thinking that i was going to die and also of beng tortures with needles and medications and equiptment. it is surreal now, like a dream i kind of remember.. but i do remember a lot. i hope and pray every day that my children never have to go through anything like that...and that i wont have to be the mother in there with them.

that said...it is wonderful that you know already what you want with the next one.. if i didnt bleed so much or have 2 babies that had shoulder dystocia i would freebirth as well..but i just dont know if i could do it with my history of births.. maybe in another lifetime. i like my midwives!


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

I don't know where you mamas get the energy to want more babies! Especially you, DiD









I got a nice sleep on Saturday night then a crappy one last night (note to child: four chunks of two hours does not an 8-hour sleep make!) and I am feeling very fuzzy-headed this morning. But yesterday I went shopping because I needed more formal workplace clothing for a presentation I'm doing next week and I kind of rediscovered the joys of clothes shopping again. I left Rowan at the IL's and spent two hours trying on TONS of clothes. I ended up with 2 skirts, a pair of pants, 3 sweaters and a blouse, all of which make me look not exactly hot, but certainly less dumpy. I recruited a very nice clerk in Talbot's and she must have gone through the whole store, just picking out stuff for me. And she was great telling me exactly what she thought about every outfit, even talking me away from a suit that I didn't really need. AND when we were waiting for a till to free up so I could part with my vast amounts of money (I'm trying not to think about that part of it all) I was mentioning how this is the first time I've enjoyed buying clothes since Rowan was born and how depressing it is that I haven't been able to lose weight since I've been nursing and she said "Good for you for nursing! That's what you should be doing, don't worry about the weight, it'll come off eventually" and went on to tell me about how her sister nursed her LO for 2 years and her whole family was SO happy about that. It was just a really nice experience.

BUT I do have to say, when you're short and dumpy, you really do have to pay more for clothes that make you look good.

We've been trying to not use fake praise here too, but we need to get the Alfie Kohn book because it's hard to know when it's appropriate to celebrate an accomplishment and when it isn't. At the moment Rowan is trying really hard to get her animal noises sorted out (she knows that tigers and trucks go "arrrrhhhh" and lambs go "Baaaaa" and eagles make a high-pitched screeching sound, but sometimes she forgets and then lambs go "aaarrrrhhh" and eagles go "baaa", so when she gets it right I get excited. She's got the tiger down pretty well, and she's pretty good with cats (mow mow) but the eagle and the lamb are new as of yesterday. Why eagles and lambs? Because they make noises that are already in her repetoire







)


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## zjande (Nov 4, 2002)

THANKS SO MUCH GUYS!








Now I want to actually join in some conversation, & write about our wedding adventures, & get caught up with you all (and say hi to the new folks







!), but I just spent HOURS uploading pics, creating links & posting them to my LJ so I could share them, one handed while NAKing!







So, here's the link to that, and I'll be back AGAIN to attempt to get caught up. Now I need to Get Off this computer!!
http://zjande.livejournal.com/


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

It's definitely not energy that makes me want more babies.







I'm beat!


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## sarahcecile (Mar 3, 2004)

*Zjande* Your wedding looked lovely! Congratulations! I wish I had incorporated handfasting into my wedding, ahh maybe next time









*spughy* I have to second you on the "where the heck do I find MY untapped reserves of energy that would make me think that having a second child right now was even sort of a good idea?" I watched my best friend's awesome little boy this weekend - he is nearly 3 and sweet and loving and really really cool. But I was pretty whooped watching both of the kiddos, even with DH there. Is it always like that? Please tell me no.

Ooops, gotta go, Adds is awake.


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## spiritmomma (Aug 29, 2005)

Oh it's definitely not boundless energy making me want to have more babies either! I got a short stretch of sleep last night, then Isa was up every hour, every 45 minutes, or every 30 minutes until about 6:45, then up for the day. I am so tired that I'm resentful and angry... Grrrr...







:

Hopefully, though, this is just another one of those passing phases and then I feel happy, well, and rested again soon. (trying to see the f*%^&ng silver lining







) So far all these irritating, er, *ahem* _challenging_ phases have been short and greatly outnumbered by crazy Love and happiness. I am doing my darnedest to focus on the previous and coming joy instead of the current madness. Her molars on bottom seem to be bleeding every few hours, she's got some seriously thick mucus coming out of her nose, and when she sleeps on her back(HA! WHEN she sleeps at all...) she tends toward coughing. I know she'll be better soon and won't be clingy, whiny, on potty strike, or sleepless anymore.







:

So I did receive her new







: Baby Bjorn Little potty in the mail today.







It's a cute little green one, and hopefully she will soon return to enjoying pee-peeing on the potty instead of the rug or her pants.







We'd been enjoying such great success with EC and lately (maybe the teething and illness, combined with a new found independence?!?!?!) she's decided not to use a potty, any potty. Once again, I hope this is one of those short-lived phases.

Sorry this post is SO LONG and SO BITCHY. I just am having one of those days...er, weeks. Hope everyone's is going WAY better than mine and thanks for listening.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

I'm feeling slightly bitchy too. In the middle of my nice, safe, wholesome, nurturing breastfeeding group walked a competitive parent yesterday. Ironically, at the time we were discussing competitive parenting







I was nice, but it was such hard work. I'm probably going to be seeing her again at least twice this week as well.
Spiritmomma, I got good mail today as well







. I really hope EC gets back to going well for you, though, I have such respect for anyone who will make that commitment to their children. I love cunt too, and Skye has my second copy on her bookshelf. (The first copy I lent to my BF, who showed it to her teenage daughters, who shared it with their friends and it somehow magically disappeared into the depths of teen culture. Can you think of a better use?)
DiD, we're back to charting. I want a baby that is planned, where we look into each others eyes and go "yep, we're fertile. Lets make this baby" as opposed to "I don't think I'm fertile now, but I'm going to shag you anyway because I wanna and we want another kid anyhow." So, barring unexpected orgasms, we're probably looking at seriously TTC from September onwards, aiming to produce offspring during the summer holidays before Steve starts his NQT year.
Spughy, the word is NOT dumpy. It's cuddly. I'm glad you had fun though.
Fern, I'm convinced that the reason I haemorrhaged with Isaac is related to the SD: basically, I was coached to push when my ctx weren't strong enough (because he was malpositioned, because his waters were broken during an internal) so I pushed this malpositioned baby out intellectually, rather than instinctively, his shoulders stuck because my ctx weren't strong enough to rotate him, and then they weren't strong enough to clamp my uterus down good and hard either. Technically, he didn't have shoulder dystocia, just a military presentation- both shoulders together- but because all of my kids have done an interesting variation on normal- born in the caul, the shoulders, the hand- it does make me wonder what's next. (For those reading, don't even think the br word. Please?)
That's probably not the case for you, but one of the things that would get me into hospital would be if I felt that we needed to get this baby out fast and I couldn't get strong ctx going that made me want to push.
Zjande, that's a nice chart you've got going this month. Where's the rest of it? Tested yet?







to everyone else. My brain hurts when we talk about this many different things, sometimes.


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## MelW (Jan 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
Technically, he didn't have shoulder dystocia, just a military presentation- both shoulders together- but because all of my kids have done an interesting variation on normal- born in the caul, the shoulders, the hand- it does make me wonder what's next. (For those reading, don't even think the br word. Please?)

Hmmm...I'm thinking OA, well-flexed, and soooo normal (and a waterbirth with candles, of course)









Welcome back zjande! Congrats!!!

Neela mysteriously slept the best ever tonight- from 8 to 3:30 before she woke up to nurse. Of course now I'm mysteriously sleepless and up for a snack (and computer time) at 5 am! I'm forcing myself back to bed now, though....


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## Awaken (Oct 10, 2004)

Hi everyone- it's snowing here! But miraculously, the kids still had school! I *know* it will be cancelled tomorrow (valentine's day, and all those v-day parties at school







)

My news is that I'm going back to work tomorrow- only 1 day a week, but I'm afraid it'll feel more like 3- day before getting everything packed and ready for daycare, day of, and day after recovering! It's a super hectic and stressful job, so I'm hoping I won't allow it to get to me, emotionally, like it did before. I just don't have room for that in my life!

Who was it who's got a part on Law and Order? Make sure you tell us so we can watch it! That is so cool! What a famous bunch of Nov. mamas we are!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *zjande* 
I'm sorry I've been MIA, thanks for wondering about me!







I am married





















,

zjande, so nice to hear from you, and that the wedding was everything you dreamed! I will go back and look at the pics when I have time! Yay!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DreamsInDigital* 
I am so on cloud nine. This is so much better than I ever imagined.









I can't remember if I posted on your birth announcement thread, b ut wanted to say congrats, and I loved the birth story, and the pics! What a beautiful baby and beautiful mom.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
Alex watched your photos, ran downstairs, grabbed Isaac and showed him the pictures, and then they've been telling everyone how cool it is watching babies being born.

Hee hee hee, we've been watching this 'in the womb' show on national geographic, and Ethan is really into it! He loved that the sperm were swimming, and keeps asking when we can go and see some ("are they outside?")

I want to talk more about this not giving praise concept; but I'm out of time for now!


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
Fern, I'm convinced that the reason I haemorrhaged with Isaac is related to the SD: basically, I was coached to push when my ctx weren't strong enough (because he was malpositioned, because his waters were broken during an internal) so I pushed this malpositioned baby out intellectually, rather than instinctively, his shoulders stuck because my ctx weren't strong enough to rotate him, and then they weren't strong enough to clamp my uterus down good and hard either. Technically, he didn't have shoulder dystocia, just a military presentation- both shoulders together- but because all of my kids have done an interesting variation on normal- born in the caul, the shoulders, the hand- it does make me wonder what's next.

interesting thoughts..
both births i really wasnt coached at all.. i did what my body wanted. with elwynn i was side lying and his head came but his body was stuck..but then i had this urge to flip over onto my other side and out he came.. with ngaio i was in the pool sitting/reclining and when her head came and no body i flipped to hands and knees.. when i did that he head popped out of the water and the MW said i should get out because she may have had air, which could have encouraged her to breathe.. so out i hopped (she said that i was the fastest pregnant lmomma with a baby's head between her legs that she had ever seen) onto hands and knees..but she was stuck. i pushed VERY hard. my very skilled midwife managed to dislodge her without hurting either one of us though, so i guess she wasn't that stuck. i think maybe its just how my pelvis is shaped..
i do think the excessive bleeding had to do with the trauma of her SD though.. with elwynn..i also bled.. maybe i just like bleeding!


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

I think you could be right and that (bleeding) is just how you do birth. That, and trying to fit 10lb babies through your pelvis







You sounded so perky after Ngaio was born, it was incredible








I don't know, i've been feeling very introspective and meditative over my birthing experiences recently. I spent the morning on the phone to the supervisor of midwives this morning and she's receptive to the idea of providing a midwife for a couple of hours a month for a miscarriage support group. I just can't imagine going through this without having had kids before, and knowing that your body can do birth and will do birth again, y'know? Maybe I'm the wrong person to do this, I don't know.


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
I think you could be right and that (bleeding) is just how you do birth. That, and trying to fit 10lb babies through your pelvis







You sounded so perky after Ngaio was born, it was incredible








I don't know, i've been feeling very introspective and meditative over my birthing experiences recently. I spent the morning on the phone to the supervisor of midwives this morning and she's receptive to the idea of providing a midwife for a couple of hours a month for a miscarriage support group. I just can't imagine going through this without having had kids before, and knowing that your body can do birth and will do birth again, y'know? Maybe I'm the wrong person to do this, I don't know.

10 lbs 5oz.. thats nothing! most other mammals give birth to HUGE babies







and perky? i dont know about that. i was sure sore.. but madly in love and i guess love makes everything better.
i have to say.. all through my pregnancy i was worried about losing her. i wanted her SO bad. it just made the thought so much more powerful/scary.
at that moment when i was pushing her out and she didnt come.. i think the sheer terror of losing her after all of that was enough to dislodge her. that and my love for her. but we all know that love isn't always enough



















losing a baby is always going to be a blow to the heart and soul.. even if it wasn't a planned pregnancy. a support group is a necessary thing.. online or IRL. knowing that you are not alone in your grief is so important..and also, like you said, for woman who havn't had children, to hear that others have had healthy pregnancies and births and have sprouting, laughing children is really important. wanting a baby is a powerful force and having empty arms is devestating. and no.. i think that you are the perfect person to do it. you are so amazing!


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## barcelona (May 1, 2006)

Just wanted to pop on and say HI! Finley is running around and will soon be going to bed, but I'm hoping to come on again after he sleeps to catch up and share.

I have been reading, but unable to keep up with writing!

Gots to go--Finley calls--but more soon!

xoxo


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## Gunter (May 5, 2005)

hey lovelies,

i am trying to read and catch up. i just wrote an article about praying with children for a local online mag. i will tell you if it actually gets posted. not that it's great or i know much about how to pray with kids or guide them about prayer or anything. ugh. my brain is a bit overloaded right now from it though.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Sounds interesting, Gunter.
It's kitchen day. I should be getting a phone call any time in the next half an hour to tell me that our delivery is only 1km away, and they'll be with me in time for me to get the kids to school on time







How excited am I? The cooker comes on Friday...


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Winter absolutely will not nurse.







He didn't even want to try. I offered so many times in the last couple of days. He'll lay his head on my breast and then wander off. Jim ends up having to give him a bottle at bedtime. I've started pumping so at the very least he can have breastmilk in his bottle again. Sigh. I had such high hopes.


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## Gunter (May 5, 2005)

Kavita said:


> One highlight was that the one kid finished his ice cream, and came up and was talking about how he finished his ice cream, and the mom was like, "Good job, you finished your ice cream!!" in that enthusiastic fake-praise tone. She said "Good job!" to something else too, I think it might have been repeating about the ice cream but I didn't catch it. It was really funny but sad too--like, first of all, do you really want to teach your kids to finish whatever they eat? Second, what is so impressive about the accomplishment of eating a dish of ice cream that it requires praise?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

*HAPPY LOVE DAY!*


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## eirual (Mar 21, 2006)

Hunter took off walking this past weekend, and I love my new-found freedom!!! He was especially needy and clingy leading up to it, and now he's sooo much more independent and willing to be on his own, it's such a nice change of pace


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

now that that is out of my system.









ngaio is getting 2 bottom mollars and its been kinda hellish. she is very clingy and in a lot of pain. i even broke down and gave her some infant advil the other day because it was getting to be too much. chamomilla and arnica do help a lot but only so much..and some moments are too much for me!. last night she flailed all night and nursed all night and cried all night. not fun. but i still love her anyways! and now she is sleeping peaceful.. but ive been up since 6am making valentines cards with my daycare kiddo..*sigh*


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## *Amy* (Jun 16, 2004)

Spughy, as for the appropriate acknowledgment of accomplishments, we just use a simple "You did it!" for most things. We also use "Tah-dah!" or "Yay!" and I usually talk about what she did and ask her if it makes her feel happy that she did it. But I have *totally* caught myself about to say GOOD JOB for some of the bigger things.







Maybe we should start a U.C. thread somewhere here on MDC if there isn't one already.

I've had a really busy few days: six sling orders, one husband traveling to Michigan and back, and one very clingy, exceptionally whiny daughter. It's been hard! Our sleep progress is at a stand-still, and I think that Phase Two was a bit much for Brynn, which has in turn caused her to be ridiculously emotional during the day. I think I'm going to write a blog about it though and not take up too much room here. Suffice it to say, I'm still horribly sleep deprived and still resentful. And on the verge of hopeless again. Me and you, Jaymi, huh?! Sigh.

Aubrey, congratulations on your marriage!!!! I will check your photos as soon as I have a chance!

DiD, I'm glad that you are having such a good babymoon with your sweet girl, but sorry that it isn't working out as well as you'd hoped for tandem nursing. Maybe he will change his mind?

Mary, good luck with returning to work! I hope it is a smooth transition for all of you.

Everyone else: *Happy Valentine's Day!* We got a surprise: DH got to stay home today because of all of the snow. Yiipppeeee!!


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Amy** 
Spughy, as for the appropriate acknowledgment of accomplishments, we just use a simple "You did it!" for most things. We also use "Tah-dah!" or "Yay!" and I usually talk about what she did and ask her if it makes her feel happy that she did it.

Oh, ok. We do that. Yay we're good parents! 

Happy valentine's day everyone! I got surprise flowers last night which was nice. And we are going to have a "romantic" dinner tonight with some beef tenderloin and a bottle of wine. Of course, Rowan will still be at the table with us, trying to feed the dog and rubbing $$$$beef tenderloin in her hair, but you do what you can, right?


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## spiritmomma (Aug 29, 2005)

OOOOOhhhhhh. *amy* I'm still not sleeping much either. But my attitude is steadily improving. It's helped that Joshua has been home for the last 2 days due to snow. We've been seriously dumped on here! Joshua has bailed our cars out several times and today we're just not going anywhere. We even cancelled our regular Wednesday playgroup.....









Aubrey, LOVE the wedding pics. So awesome! Looks like it was a lot of fun and very emotionally charged. I hope your honeymoon is as much fun as your wedding looked!

Fern: I totally hear you on the molar thing... (and so does SoulJourney!) It's been molar melt-down around these parts lately. But she seems to be more comfortable today, even though her gums still bleed every few hours.

DiD: You never know... he may just need some adjustment time. If there's one thing I've learned about changes for little ones, it's that they are NOT linear... more of a dance/ shuffle. He may take a step back to nursing... Don't hold your breath, but don't count it over yet either.

Anyone else besides Amy and SoulJourney buried in snow???


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## sarahcecile (Mar 3, 2004)

Wow y'all are chatty Mommas.

Let me join in the sleeplessness and molar discomfort support group! Adeline is sick and finally in the last stages of molar eruption. We actually thought she had Croup based on some weird sounding coughing and high fever the night before last, but it seems instead to be a short-lived annoying chest cold instead. She is currently at my MILs for a couple hours so I can get some housework/alone time.

We aren't doing anything fun for St. V's Day but this weekend we are driving up to Asheville to see my Dad's furniture show (and my Dad). I'm nervous about it - Addie hasn't seen him since she was 5 months old and she is sort of nervous about tall strange men. He was scary to her when she was a wee babe because he is big and way too loud and because she senses (or at least I think) the tension between he and I. I know this time he will be loud and he's still 6' 4 and she actually has some stranger anxiety at this age. I want the visit to go well - any thoughts?

*DID*[/B] I'm so so so sorry that Winter won't nurse. I don't think that I have heard about your struggle with tandem nursing (and I know Suriya just arrived) but I know that it must be tearing at your heart. I second spiritmomma's suggestion that it might not be over yet. There are a lot of toddlers who will seem to be entirely done with the breast and then go back and forth again. I hope everything works out for you.

*Spughy* We also do a lot of "Look at that" and "You did it" when Addie does something thrilling. I also make a suprised excited face all the time, which she has started imitating. I want her to know that I am engaged and interested but not like I am judging. Man is that a challenge. arghhghgh. I love the idea of UP support group online.

*Amy* Congrats on all the sling orders - and sorry about the lack o' sleep and cranky babe.

Okay, I better run and make some more cleaning progress, I am starting to miss the babe.

- Sarah

PS. - Happy Valentine's Day!!!


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## Phoenix_Rising (Jun 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DreamsInDigital* 
Winter absolutely will not nurse.







He didn't even want to try. I offered so many times in the last couple of days. He'll lay his head on my breast and then wander off. Jim ends up having to give him a bottle at bedtime. I've started pumping so at the very least he can have breastmilk in his bottle again. Sigh. I had such high hopes.

KeaganRae did this for the first time yesterday. He refused nearly ALL DAY LONG - kept signing for it and then when I whipped it out he would attach and then pop off. Of course as soon as DW and I left to go out to dinner (MIL baby-sat while we went out for my birthday - second time out on a post-Keagan's birth) Keagan ate soooooo much milk. Dang kid.
Crossing my fingers for you that Winter will start nursing again. Good luck with the pumping. I hate it.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

DiD, seconding the suggestion to not give up hope. Was he nursing properly before Suriya arrived, btw? I have a memory of you mentioning supplementing with formula a few months ago...
One thing that did occur to me is that maybe rebirthing could work on a toddler, the way it does with a tiny baby: run a nice warm bath (refill the birthing pool?) and climb in, just you and that beautiful baby boy, and see what happens. Alex didn't nurse frequently after Isaac arrived, but generally when he did it was at bathtimes.
I slipped off the "good mother" bandwagon today, when I called Skye a good girl not once, not twice, but thrice. I got very confused when she started shouting boof, boof, boof at me, until a bus pulled up right next to me







It's amazing how much she understands now, and how big she's getting- I'm shocked at how many mamas comment when they see her walking on the school run, too. She sees so much more when she's upright, y'know?
Valentines Day is going the same day as our anniversaries. The good news, such as it is, is that I finally got a negative HPT and my temperature dropped a bit, so I guess I'm no longer miscarrying, just not pregnant. The bad news is that dh accidentally bought me a mothers day card instead of a Valentine, and the dog ate his cake whilst I was doing the school run. I don't know whether to laugh, cry, or sell our life story to Hollywood- let's face it, you couldn't make this stuff up.


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Oh Helen!







I am so sorry your Valentine's Day didn't go well.

As for Winter and the whole nursing thing, he hasn't nursed in about 6 months. Once there was no milk I just could not get him to even latch. He's been formula fed since then.







We use the Weston Price formula so at least it's not the powdered stuff but still... Anyway, I'd hoped that once my milk was back in I could get him to nurse again but so far it doesn't seem likely.


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## Queen of Cups (Aug 29, 2003)

Gosh, are you all being serious about this huge mama-guilt over saying "good job" occasionally? Sorry, but I don't subscribe to the idea that its damaging. We try not to overuse praise or manipulate with it, but I have zero problems complimenting my kids when I'm proud of them. I use "good job," "how smart!," and "you know, you're a really great kid!" a lot with my kids - because I mean it. If ya'll really think that makes me a bad mom, then I have to say I'm kind of shocked. I've seen way too many parents that treat their kids like crap to beat myself up over giving out compliments. I know I sound crazy-on-the-offensive, but this topic is a bit of pet peeve with me. I would much rather see a parent doing something silly like saying "good job" about eating ice cream, than hear a parent saying "I'm going to beat your ass!" when a kid does something their displeased with.. but I feel like I hear the latter more often, so I don't worry about the former. I feel like there's this attitude that none of us (mothers) are ever good enough, and this is a new way that "good" parents can pick at each other. It really makes me not want to hang out with AP friends when I think about the fact that if Killy puts a puzzle together and I tell him "good job," that everyone's going to be rolling their eyes behind my back and calling me a coercive parent. UGH! I should probably have just put that in my blog, but I shared it because maybe there's another mama in this group who's tired of feeling like crap for using the phrase "good job." If there is - you're not alone!

Valentine's Day: We had a lovely day! Ridiculous amount of presents from the grandparents arrived in the mail, we had donuts for breakfast, made thank-you notes this afternoon (with all the art supplies the kids got in their packages) and went out to eat at a nice Italian restaurant. Both kids behaved amazingly! It was just a lovely, relaxing evening out. And, what's more romantic than that? (Well, quite a few things, but nothing very reasonable with a 1 year old and a 2 year old in tow!)


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## sarahcecile (Mar 3, 2004)

*QoC* - No no no no! No bad Mama talk here!







: Let me be the first to say (and of course, only speaking for myself) that I don't immediately assume when I overhear a parent saying "good job" that they are doing anything but genuinely enjoying their children. After reading Unconditional Parenting I found myself being more careful about what I say to Adeline - being concious about it, but I think that if said in the right spirit, Good Job, etc. could all be wonderful things to say to your child. I think the idea is just not to use it as a manipulative tool - or to inject a good/bad judgement call into an action or activity that is self-rewarding and we can probably all get behind that idea. I totally agree with you on the danger of competitive parenting - especially in the AP communities. I myself am guilty of being critical of other Mamas







and I usually regret it later when I discover that they had reasons for doing what I was being so critical of.

Anyone looking into spring and summer clothing yet? There was a huge consignment sale here recently and I found absolutely nothing I could stand. So I am on the lookout for inexpensive, logo-free, not frilly toddler clothes. I looked at Basic Brilliance today and now I am feeling like buying her ten pairs of bloomers. It's a damn good thing that my wallet is in the car, my laziness will prevent me from buying things online.

MIL gave Addie a little basket of Valentine's goodies today - including a pair of Soft Star shoes! They are red and so freakin' cute and she seems comfy in them. And hurray for not having to shell out $40 on shoes in the next month as she is growing out of her current pair so fast.

Anyone know of toddler friendly places to visit in Asheville, NC?

Night Mamas!

- Sarah


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

I totally use good job, you're such a good boy, etc. all the time. I never thought about it and my children beam with pride when they hear things like that. I don't use it to manipulate them and I think if I suddenly stopped praising them they would be very confused.


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## flyingspaghettimama (Dec 18, 2001)

I love AK, although I think sometimes he has better ideas than actual implementation. I like the How to Talk book on praise - it specifically says it's fine and great to specifically point out behaviors, actions, and so on (i.e. "This room is very nice to be in after you clean up" vs. a comment about the child him/herself "You are a good boy for cleaning up your room." or "I like the blue in your painting. I feel relaxed when I look at it." vs. "You're such a great artist!") I personally feel that praising and haranguing are two sides of the same coin - they pass judgement on the child's innate self rather than sharing information?

But then again, I agree that all children should hear how much their parents looove and adore them. I just have known children (older) who end up being praise junkies, always striving for the A, for the teacher's approval, for the "good job" rather than the innate sense of passion or interest; or go the other way, feeling like a fraud and rejecting praise as fakery. Or (worse case) end up thinking that they really are the prettiest girl in the world, and it becomes some sort of competition once they're around all the other prettiest girls in the world (their classmates).

We did a lot of praise when my daughter was young; after I read Kohn, How to Talk (Faber and Mazlish), and Montessori (also has great tips on observing vs praising), the "observation" is more useful and positive for us. However, I would totally not beat myself up if I praised randomly at this age; We do say a lot of "Thank you for sitting on the couch. Look at FSB sitting on the couch. How safe!" lately. He so doesn't care, even for this. He is one kid that I'm pretty sure praise wouldn't work for in any case. He plays by his own dang rules.

For example, a dog does not say "ruff ruff" or "bark bark" or anything else we've suggested. He sticks his tongue out and pants, or whines for your generic "dog noise." He also pretends to be a dog, crawling around and panting. He still has few words that I can recognize, although he babbles all day in his own mysterious baby language. He did learn how to say "a bite??" the other day with an adorable head-tilt and an outstretched hand. And uses it incessantly, especially with things we don't give him (chocolate cupcakes).

I'm sending healthy sleep vibes to all of you up with us on Valentine's - we are having some rough nights too. THOSE MOLARS BE DANGED! We got two through on top, but those bottom two are just...ugh. Huge. Swollen. Painful. These poor little guys.

Helen, I'm sorry for your loss. I wish there was more I could say or do.


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Winter finally nursed tonight. Oh I am crying like a baby. I am so happy.


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## *Amy* (Jun 16, 2004)

DiD, that is wonderful! Yay!!!!

QoC, I am sorry if anything we said about U.P. made you feel attacked or on the defensive. I know that I certainly wouldn't want anyone here in our group to feel judged by me sharing my opinions or philosophies. I thought about your post all last night, and was trying to come up with a good response, but I think the PPs said it better than I could have!

This really seems to be a hot topic that provokes a lot of passionate opinions, so I created a separate thread over in Books/Music/Media where we can go in-depth about it without getting too off topic or annoying here.

Here is the Unconditional Parenting thread!


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Well, personally I think we should keep it here, rather than have the whole universe telling us that we're wrong for not following, say, A.S. Neill's parenting strategy, or Aletha Solter, or ???? and I don't wanna stick my neck out on another forum and have all that grief to deal with now. I'm with FSM though, I think Faber and Mazlish are brilliant.
QoC, I don't think it's as big a deal at this age: where these techniques come in handy, IMO, is when you have a child who is struggling with feelings of inadequacy because they're in an unfamiliar setting, and when your child is in an environment where someone uses praise (or the withholding of) as power. IOW, when you're debriefing the many interesting and creative ways that modern schools mess our children's heads up. Because praise is one of the kinds of power, and it's probably the most powerful when dealing with children. I want my kids to appreciate praise, but more importantly, I want them to know their own worth and feel proud of their achievements because by their values, they kicked ass. So we use descriptive praise wherever possible. Make sense? (Also, with Skye being a girl, I am very conscious of the fact that she's going to get all this crap multiplied xxxxx.)

DiD: Good job, mama


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## s_kristina (Aug 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sarahcecile* 
Anyone looking into spring and summer clothing yet? There was a huge consignment sale here recently and I found absolutely nothing I could stand. So I am on the lookout for inexpensive, logo-free, not frilly toddler clothes. I looked at Basic Brilliance today and now I am feeling like buying her ten pairs of bloomers. It's a damn good thing that my wallet is in the car, my laziness will prevent me from buying things online.
- Sarah

I'm in FL I'm always looking for summer clothes







Actually at the moment we are having a cold snap so we are all bundling up. Our high is around 60 today and even colder tomorrow and it's supposed to stay this way for a week. I can only be glad that the landlord brought us a space heater and dh managed to find another small one so our rooms won't get too cold as the heater burned out in this house last year and has not been replaced.


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## Queen of Cups (Aug 29, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
QoC, I don't think it's as big a deal at this age: where these techniques come in handy, IMO, is when you have a child who is struggling with feelings of inadequacy because they're in an unfamiliar setting, and when your child is in an environment where someone uses praise (or the withholding of) as power. IOW, when you're debriefing the many interesting and creative ways that modern schools mess our children's heads up. Because praise is one of the kinds of power, and it's probably the most powerful when dealing with children. I want my kids to appreciate praise, but more importantly, I want them to know their own worth and feel proud of their achievements because by their values, they kicked ass. So we use descriptive praise wherever possible. Make sense? (Also, with Skye being a girl, I am very conscious of the fact that she's going to get all this crap multiplied xxxxx.)

Oh, I agree with using specific praise and such, I worked at a children's museum before having kids and taught (still occasionally teach) preschool science workshops. I've read tons of books/articles about this topic, but I just feel like it gets blown way out of proportion, with the end result of parents going to such an extreme as to never praise their children (even sincerely) and think poorly of other parents who do. Maybe I'm just oversensitive.

Thanks, everyone, for putting up with me and my vent about this!

I just got back from the eye-doctor. Basically my eyes are still infected and I have to go on an oral antiviral med and use steroid eyedrops to try to finally get my eyes cleared up (I woke on on 1/1 with an eye infection, if anyone remembers). DH is totally shocked that I was right when I've been telling him for the past month that I think my eyes are still infected and that my vision has worsened, but I was right on both counts. I'm so bummed.


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

DiD - oh, how wonderful. I can imagine how you must feel - I would be crying with joy too.







That's great mama!

Re: the praise thing - we're not THAT hung up on descriptive praise. I DO say "good job" now and then but I just try to give her a bit more focused feedback when it seems appropriate. "THAT'S RIGHT!!! That's exactly what a lamb says!" It just seems more... interactive. More like you're really paying attention to what they're doing. But, sometimes "good job" works, like when she manages to get off the bed all by herself without needing mummy to help her slide the last inch. Then it's pretty obvious. I dunno, I'm new to all this mama stuff. I am open to any and all opinions on the topic!

sarahcecile - I'm not going to buy Rowan any clothes for spring/summer until I get a better sense of how big she's going to be. She's growing faster than I thought she would; she's already in an 18 mo jacket. I don't want to buy summer clothes for her and have her grow out of them halfway through the summer. I thought kids were supposed to slow down with the growing once they hit 1 year, but Rowan's put on 2 lbs in the last 3 months and grown in height too. She's on the verge of outgrowing her cutest pants, too, which makes me sad.

QofC - I am envious of your night out. We planned one, because DH forgot to take our beef tenderloin out of the freezer, but then he had a whomping headache so I ended up just getting Vietnamese takeout instead. It was tasty and all (and in complete violation of my no-refined-carbs plan, which is probably why I feel so energy-less this morning despite getting a record amount of sleep) but not the same as eating out. And I really want to start eating out more to get Rowan used to restaurants.

I am reeeeally wanting a farm right now. I want a cow. And chickens I can eat when they tick me off (as opposed to the chickens in our back yard now, which are kids' pets, so no coq au vin when they get into my strawberries.) Next weekend we're going to fix up the garden, put in planks to raise the beds better, put up a new fence, and test the soil to see why it doesn't do such a fabulous job of producing anything except peas.


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## sesa70 (May 12, 2006)

Hello everyone!

I havent made my way through all 10 pages yet, but wanted to introduce myself









I'm Theresa, mom to two girls. Amira is a Nov.05 baby, so here I am!


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## Phoenix_Rising (Jun 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DreamsInDigital* 
Winter finally nursed tonight. Oh I am crying like a baby. I am so happy.









DiD - I am so happy for you









Quote:


Originally Posted by *sesa70* 
Hello everyone!

I havent made my way through all 10 pages yet, but wanted to introduce myself









I'm Theresa, mom to two girls. Amira is a Nov.05 baby, so here I am!









Welcome, Theresa, jump on in!

And as for the praise thing - we use the generic "good job" more often than I would like. I need to start saying more specifically what I am referring to. But that is my journey, just wanted to add it in


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## flyingspaghettimama (Dec 18, 2001)

Psst...there are a TON of threads on UP in the GD forum. And, more debates over praise vs. no praise vs. targeted praise vs. descriptive praise than you can shake a stick at.

If you'd rather have a conversation about it rather than the usual posturing that sometimes goes down on other threads, I'm with Helen - we actually probably care enough about each other here not to actually get into a flamewar over the idea.


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## spiritmomma (Aug 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Amy** 
Spughy, as for the appropriate acknowledgment of accomplishments, we just use a simple "You did it!" for most things. We also use "Tah-dah!" or "Yay!" and I usually talk about what she did and ask her if it makes her feel happy that she did it...
...Suffice it to say, I'm still horribly sleep deprived and still resentful. And on the verge of hopeless again. Me and you, Jaymi, huh?! Sigh.

I had a good night's sleep last night!







We've been night nursing this whole last week due to me feeling bad for her... She's got top and bottom molars coming in







But we've been nursing up a storm all day long so she is nursing less at night. That I can handle. When the time seems right, we'll try night weaning again. Right now, I'm okay and she's okay too. That's JUST RIGHT.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Queen of Cups* 
Gosh, are you all being serious about this huge mama-guilt over saying "good job" occasionally? Sorry, but I don't subscribe to the idea that its damaging. We try not to overuse praise or manipulate with it, but I have zero problems complimenting my kids when I'm proud of them. I use "good job," "how smart!," and "you know, you're a really great kid!" a lot with my kids - because I mean it. If ya'll really think that makes me a bad mom, then I have to say I'm kind of shocked. I've seen way too many parents that treat their kids like crap to beat myself up over giving out compliments. I know I sound crazy-on-the-offensive, but this topic is a bit of pet peeve with me. I would much rather see a parent doing something silly like saying "good job" about eating ice cream, than hear a parent saying "I'm going to beat your ass!" when a kid does something their displeased with.. but I feel like I hear the latter more often, so I don't worry about the former. I feel like there's this attitude that none of us (mothers) are ever good enough, and this is a new way that "good" parents can pick at each other. It really makes me not want to hang out with AP friends when I think about the fact that if Killy puts a puzzle together and I tell him "good job," that everyone's going to be rolling their eyes behind my back and calling me a coercive parent. UGH! I should probably have just put that in my blog, but I shared it because maybe there's another mama in this group who's tired of feeling like crap for using the phrase "good job." If there is - you're not alone!

I can totally see where you are coming from here, but I too can see the damage too many "good job"'s can do. If you are curious about how I guage whether or not praise is in order, I check my true feelings. Did I even see what she is excited about? Am I excited about it too? If not, then I don't say good job. I say, "wow, you're so excited!" If I see she's been working really hard on something and she's accomplished it, I say, "you did it! Well done!" or "you worked really hard on that! way to persevere!" I do say good job, but not often. I feel like too many adults just say it without _feeling_ it. If you feel it, SAY IT! QoC, I'm sure we're on the same page here. There is NOTHING at all wrong with praising a child or complementing a child on a job well done.... as long as you mean it. And obviously you do!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sarahcecile* 
*QoC* - No no no no! No bad Mama talk here!







: ... I totally agree with you on the danger of competitive parenting - especially in the AP communities. I myself am guilty of being critical of other Mamas







and I usually regret it later when I discover that they had reasons for doing what I was being so critical of.
- Sarah

Yes, I agree. No competitions here for who is more or less AP and why one person thinks so or another. Judgment isn't welcome here, but diversity and opinionated mamas ARE!
I, too, find myself realizing I've made judgment on someone and having bad feelings about something I've seen someone do, then realize that they had a good reason and are a super wonderful mama. That is what reminds me not to do it again! I love it when a mama proves me wrong and is way more super awesome than I could have ever imagined...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flyingspaghettimama* 
I love AK, although I think sometimes he has better ideas than actual implementation. I like the How to Talk book on praise - it specifically says it's fine and great to specifically point out behaviors, actions, and so on (i.e. "This room is very nice to be in after you clean up" vs. a comment about the child him/herself "You are a good boy for cleaning up your room." or "I like the blue in your painting. I feel relaxed when I look at it." vs. "You're such a great artist!") I personally feel that praising and haranguing are two sides of the same coin - they pass judgement on the child's innate self rather than sharing information?

But then again, I agree that all children should hear how much their parents looove and adore them. I just have known children (older) who end up being praise junkies, always striving for the A, for the teacher's approval, for the "good job" rather than the innate sense of passion or interest; or go the other way, feeling like a fraud and rejecting praise as fakery. Or (worse case) end up thinking that they really are the prettiest girl in the world, and it becomes some sort of competition once they're around all the other prettiest girls in the world (their classmates).

I wish I would have written this post, FSM! It's exactly how I feel. Well spoken.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DreamsInDigital* 
Winter finally nursed tonight. Oh I am crying like a baby. I am so happy.

















:






































































: YAY! I'm so glad for you both!!! Congrats on a returning nursling!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
Well, personally I think we should keep it here...
QoC, I don't think it's as big a deal at this age: where these techniques come in handy, IMO, is when you have a child who is struggling with feelings of inadequacy because they're in an unfamiliar setting, and when your child is in an environment where someone uses praise (or the withholding of) as power. IOW, when you're debriefing the many interesting and creative ways that modern schools mess our children's heads up. Because praise is one of the kinds of power, and it's probably the most powerful when dealing with children. *I want my kids to appreciate praise, but more importantly, I want them to know their own worth and feel proud of their achievements because by their values, they kicked ass.* So we use descriptive praise wherever possible. Make sense? (Also, with Skye being a girl, I am very conscious of the fact that she's going to get all this crap multiplied xxxxx.)

DiD: Good job, mama









I agree completely... and







for your cheeky praise!~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sesa70* 
Hello everyone!
Amira is a Nov.05 baby, so here I am!

















Nice to meet you! Welcome, welcome!


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## *Amy* (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flyingspaghettimama* 
Psst...there are a TON of threads on UP in the GD forum. And, more debates over praise vs. no praise vs. targeted praise vs. descriptive praise than you can shake a stick at.

If you'd rather have a conversation about it rather than the usual posturing that sometimes goes down on other threads, I'm with Helen - we actually probably care enough about each other here not to actually get into a flamewar over the idea.

I wondered if it was in GD, but didn't look first. Duh, me! Oh well, I totally see what you are saying there and agree. We can totally keep it here; I just didn't want to bug everyone else by discussing it with those of y'all who are reading it and want to talk about it.









Sesa, welcome to our group! Things move pretty quickly around here but this is the best bunch of lovely ladies on MDC!!!







Your girls are adorable, by the way! When my DD, Brynn, saw the picture of your youngest, she giggled.


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## sesa70 (May 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Amy** 
Sesa, welcome to our group! Things move pretty quickly around here but this is the best bunch of lovely ladies on MDC!!!







Your girls are adorable, by the way! When my DD, Brynn, saw the picture of your youngest, she giggled.









Thankyou everyone for the warm welcomes







I actually just put up the pictures today, I am glad someone noticed them~


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## MelW (Jan 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flyingspaghettimama* 

But then again, I agree that all children should hear how much their parents looove and adore them. I just have known children (older) who end up being praise junkies, always striving for the A, for the teacher's approval, for the "good job" rather than the innate sense of passion or interest;









This is soooo me. My name is MelW, and I am a praise junkie. Anyone else striving for the A here? Can you please tell me what a great parent I am?









Thanks for this conversation, everyone. I'm pretty low stress about good job and good work, and just try to be sincere in my communication with Neela. Though I occasionally have to hide the freaking shape-sorter toy, since she beams when she gets it "right" and screams when she can't get the shapes to fit. At least partially my fault- praise junkie genes be damned!

Congrats on the nursing, DID!

And welcome sesa- off to check out your photos


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## flyingspaghettimama (Dec 18, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spiritmomma* 
I had a good night's sleep last night!







We've been night nursing this whole last week due to me feeling bad for her... She's got top and bottom molars coming in







But we've been nursing up a storm all day long so she is nursing less at night. That I can handle. When the time seems right, we'll try night weaning again. Right now, I'm okay and she's okay too. That's JUST RIGHT.









Dude, yeah. That's why I'm waiting until he gets in ALL his molars and cuspids before we nightwean. There's so much change and flux before 18 months, just when you think you're in the sweet spot - bang - another new curve ball. After 18 months it's pretty easy.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MelW* 
Though I occasionally have to hide the freaking shape-sorter toy, since she beams when she gets it "right" and screams when she can't get the shapes to fit. At least partially my fault- praise junkie genes be damned!

But wouldn't that be _internal_ satisfaction?







That would be a good thing, even if it's annoying. FSB also likes to clap for himself after getting a shape in.

Mr FSB has been crying or angry for the past two days. I think he's teething wickedly. It's been so horrible. I'm having colic days flashbacks here.


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## sesa70 (May 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MelW* 







This is soooo me. My name is MelW, and I am a praise junkie. Anyone else striving for the A here? Can you please tell me what a great parent I am?









this is SO me too








My dd cant walk across the room without stopping and clapping for herself!







I'm working on it, but its hard, one of those ingrained in the brain behaviors, kwim?


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## spiritmomma (Aug 29, 2005)

Good advice, FSM. I'll keep that in mind.

Well, ladies, I'm off to sleep and I'm praying my first stretch is a long one... I'm sooooooooo sleepy...

*Amy*, I hope you get a nice long stretch in too... nighty night!


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

I nursed Winter to sleep tonight.


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## flyingspaghettimama (Dec 18, 2001)

Awww. Isn't it nice, DiD?


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

I'm crying, DiD- you made my mascara run before the school run, you bad mama, you.
FSM, it's good to see you post so much.
Sesa, welcome








I have a really unpleasant phone call to make this morning, so I'm probably going to be a grouch for the rest of the day







Plus we have the gas man coming to disconnect my cooker and lay the pipework for the built in hob, and I hate spending money


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

I love spending money. We've spent almost $7000 in the last week since we got our income tax refund. Among many purchases, I got the girliest, pinkest Britax you have ever seen. It's so cute!


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## *Amy* (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spiritmomma* 
*Amy*, I hope you get a nice long stretch in too... nighty night!

Shyah. As if!


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Oh no, Amy, I'm so sorry.

DiD, I am SO there with you







except that I don't actually like the majority of girls clothes. And she's bald, so no hair accessories







Now girls _shoes_ otoh, are another matter entirely....


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## spiritmomma (Aug 29, 2005)

*Amy* : So sorry to hear that. I wish you were getting more sleep as it just starts a cycle when you don't get enough every night.







I don't know if it will help or not, but if you are comfortable meditating, try using this prayer while you're holding Brynn, or while she takes a nap....

I have free access to the unending source of energy.
I am connected at all times to this source.
When I feel tired, I simply become conscious of that connection and I feel rejuvenated and present to be my true, Loving self.

Sometimes I get really frustrated with trying to change things that aren't up to me to change: "Isa why won't you pee?" "Isa, why won't you sleep?" "Isa, why will you not give up the invisible object of your desire and just relax and chill out?" When what I ought to be changing is the sense of urgency and irritation in myself. By using a prayer like this (or a better one of your own choosing) you allow yourself the opportunity for change that is NOT dependent on something outside of your control changing. Does that make sense? God, I wish I could think of stuff like this when I'm tired and angry.... I'll try to remember it next time and maybe I, too, can remember that I am connected to the endless Universal source of energy.

DiD:







:

Happy Friday everyone!


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## *Amy* (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spiritmomma* 
*Amy* : So sorry to hear that. I wish you were getting more sleep as it just starts a cycle when you don't get enough every night.







I don't know if it will help or not, but if you are comfortable meditating, try using this prayer while you're holding Brynn, or while she takes a nap....

I have free access to the unending source of energy.
I am connected at all times to this source.
When I feel tired, I simply become conscious of that connection and I feel rejuvenated and present to be my true, Loving self.

Sometimes I get really frustrated with trying to change things that aren't up to me to change: "Isa why won't you pee?" "Isa, why won't you sleep?" "Isa, why will you not give up the invisible object of your desire and just relax and chill out?" When what I ought to be changing is the sense of urgency and irritation in myself. By using a prayer like this (or a better one of your own choosing) you allow yourself the opportunity for change that is NOT dependent on something outside of your control changing. Does that make sense?

Wow Jaymi, that was about the best thing anyone could have said to me today. I am really struggling again with the whole sleep thing: frustrated that I can't control it, wondering if I should just STOP trying to control it, wondering when it will change on its own. Sigh. That little meditation is very powerful and I am going to try to keep it in mind. Thank you Mama!!!!


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## barcelona (May 1, 2006)

Hi everyone and happy Friday and happy belated Valentine's Day!

So much is going on here...Wow. I have been reading as always and unable to type, usually b/c I'm with Finley and he wakes if I type. But, he is with his daddy now, so I have a moment to type noisily away and catch up a bit!









DiD, I am so happy for you. How amazing, beautiful, wonderful.

Zjande, your wedding looks Spectacular! So personal, expressive, emotional, beautiful, and joyous. I hope you and your HUSBAND are having fun TTC, and planning your honeymoon, which sound amazing. Will you take the kids or the babe?

*Amy*, so sorry you are having such a rough time with sleeping. I wish I had such great words to offer as Jaymi did. Hang in there, mama! That is so hard.

Helen, sorry about the yucky phonecall...hope your day isn't completely marred by it.

Welcome new mamas!

I have forgotten who it was that posted about caretakers, (Ez's mama?), but I wanted to share our story, which is that we have almost never left Finley with anyone. When he was teeny tiny, I left him for an hour a couple of times with my mom, back when I was trying to conform to mainstream's way of doing things, and felt pressure to do this. Silly me. Since those wee early days, though, I have only left him once or twice for an hour with my mom, after he had been around her for days and was used to her and seemed fine with me going.

He is So attached, though, that I can't really imagine anything other than this. Not to mention not feeling comfortable with most prospects of caretakers. I'm not sure what we'll do or when. We really don't see anyone regularly that he's used to, and our families are far away. So, that's our little story about people taking care of him. We're itching to go out on a date, though, so hopefully we'll be able to figure out something soon that doesn't upset our little boy.

This week I filmed my little scene for Law and Order: Criminal Intent. It was so much fun! My first time being on the set of a TV show. I was in a scene with Vincent D'Onofrio and the lead woman, Kate Erbe, (or something). He was quite a jerk (though he was decent directly to me), and it was entertaining, at least, to see that stereotypical famous a**hole up close and personal. It just seemed so SILLY and ridiculous and unnecessary...and awful. It's sad that human beings in power are able to get away with treating other human beings that way, you know? Anyway...that aside, it was so much fun to have the opportunity to do what I love best (acting) in a professional setting and for that intimidation factor to fade away. The only bummer, in terms of the acting part, was that I only felt I was really "slipping into" it by the third take, and that was our last take. (one wide, two close ups). Also, the director had directions for me that I thought were silly and quite typically Law and Order-ish, as opposed to more real...so I just followed his directions, of course, that's my job, and he'll probably choose that take, and I'll look like another silly-bad actor on that show. But hey! I can't complain. Just sharing the experience.

What else? Oh! This is funny. My character supposedly JUSt had a baby...they had me holding a fake baby in a baby bjorn (I'm not a big bjorn fan, but before they were gonna have it be in a stroller, so the bjorn was at least a step up). They also had me with a vaccination card sticking out of my pocket, visibly (ugh). But the funny part is that they used a real baby with me for one shot...She was Seven Months Old! And in the shot she's like giggling and smiling and stuff. And, what's more, she was very hispanic-looking, which is beautiful, but I'm very fair skinned and blonde and blue eyes...and of course, I know, we'll all just assume the father is a dark stallion...but it was just funny, all the inaccuracies put together. Not to mention she was so much bigger than the fake doll, head well above the bjorn edge, so I don't know how they'll pull that off.

All in all, it was a fantastic experience. Got my hair and make up done in a trailer, they brought me breakfast. It was just so exciting to actually go into a trailer while I was on the job!









So...that's my very lengthy Law and Order story with no real point.








I think it'll air around St. Patrick's Day in march, cause there's a scene with a St. paddy's day parade.

And now, I am sick and in bed with a sore throat and bronchial cough and yuck. What can I do to heal this without taking meds? I'm drinking lots of tea with honey. What else?

And as for the UP conversation, I'll definitely join in...though, like spughy, I feel so new to all of this, and like Q of C, it does sometimes feel silly to go crazy with condemning phrases, etc...but I also am definitely making sure I'm aware of whatever I say to Finley and not just pouring on the praise and letting him feel self-satisfaction. But it's definitely hard not to jump in and share my excitement, so I often do it.

Oh, I hope you're all able to feel rested and happy today. I'm grateful to have DH home with me today to help with Finley while I feel under the weather. Hang in there, tired mamas!

And I sign off, blowing kisses to you all.


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## spiritmomma (Aug 29, 2005)

For those that want a little daily reminder... check out this website:

The Daily Groove

I really like getting the email. He's given me a lot of great ideas on how to see things differently, especially the things I can't really control or change on my own. That's my tidbit for the UP talk today! Love to all!

p.s. Barcelona, your post made me smile. Glad you had fun!


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

I hate people. I'm going to go and sit in the middle of a field surrounded only by 1yos, with their cute and inspiring ways, and have my hair pulled. Once a year, on the 16th of February, the toddlers will be replaced with a new crop of toddlers, and this is how I spend my life.
Skye is so much nicer than the other people I know, y'know? As long as she's covered in mud and nutritionally questionable foodstuffs, she's happy.


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DreamsInDigital* 
I love spending money. We've spent almost $7000 in the last week since we got our income tax refund. Among many purchases, I got the girliest, pinkest Britax you have ever seen. It's so cute!

I SO almost bought that one. But the store didn't have any left, so I took that as a sign that the god of procreation figured I was going to have a boy next, and he didn't want a girly car seat. But now I'm totally envious of your girly carseat, DiD!!


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## barcelona (May 1, 2006)

helen, i'm confused. what's going on?

ah, the girly world of which you ladies speak feels so foreign and far away to me. maybe i'll be a part of it with our next.

by the way, spughy, i'm glad (from a long-ago post) that you had fun clothes shopping and found some cute things. are you feeling fresher as you wear them now?


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 







I hate people. I'm going to go and sit in the middle of a field surrounded only by 1yos, with their cute and inspiring ways, and have my hair pulled. Once a year, on the 16th of February, the toddlers will be replaced with a new crop of toddlers, and this is how I spend my life.
Skye is so much nicer than the other people I know, y'know? As long as she's covered in mud and nutritionally questionable foodstuffs, she's happy.









im so sorry you are feeling this way. im there myself these days. its so hard.. i think its in the stars(its mercury retrograde you know..)

and i just had to laugh at your description of skye.. that is SO ngaio..


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Barcelona - that sounds like so much fun! You'll have to post when the show airs so we can all watch it. COOL!!! I 'know' someone on L&O!!!! I used to watch that show all the time before Rowan came along. Now I only watch about 3 hours a week of tv, and it's Lost and Survivor... I haven't even been able to remember to watch Battlestar Galactica and it's my favourite show (but too violent for Rowan and it's on when she's awake).

So my big question for today is, What is SO DARNED SPECIAL about our couch!?!?! Rowan has slept on the couch for the last 3 nights (with DH on the floor beneath her) - the first night, she slept until 3:30, woke up once, DH rocked her back to sleep. The second night, she woke up at 10, DH gave her some water, and she slept until 5. Last night she woke up at midnight, DH gave her some water, and she slept until nearly 7!!!! WHY will she not do this in her crib? Or our bed??? It doesn't matter which one of us sleeps with her, or if it's her crib or our bed - she wakes up every 2 hours. But the couch is somehow special. She even FALLS OFF it and keeps sleeping (so, she falls like 6 inches onto DH, not exactly a hazard, but it would certainly wake me up!). I don't get it.

I do suspect, however, that giving her the water helps. Our house is very dry, and I think she wakes up thirsty in the night which is why she wants to nurse. But my milk supply isn't what it used to be and I think she only gets a couple ounces when she nurses, so she wakes up thirsty again soon after. With DH giving her her sippy cup when she wakes up, she can chug a whole lot (I think she gulped down about 4 oz the night before last) in less than a minute and it deals with her thirst better. This morning after she nursed she went into the living room, headed straight for her sippy cup, and gulped down some more. It's not like she doesn't have access to her sippy cup all day, either! I have a feeling though, that if *I* were to offer a sippy cup instead of a boob, it wouldn't go over so well.









ETA: BTW I'm not TRYING to nightwean her. DH has orders that if she wakes up after 2 am, he brings her into me. I just need 4 hours of sleep otherwise I can't function at work. And if my brain doesn't function at work, I am not effective, I don't finish what I need to do, other people get po'd, and eventually i'd lose my job, so it's not like this is at all negotiable.

Oh - cute story - this morning she wanted some of my smoothie, so I put some in a shot glass for her and she did pretty well but ended up with the most adorable Hitler moustache you've ever seen! Right up to her nose!(It was a blueberry smoothie). Then she decided that smoothies were finger food and stuck her hand in, then she dumped it on the floor, then we had a big mess to clean up.... I'll post pictures of the moustache when DH uploads them.

Helen -







. Sounds like you need one.

Amy - I am praying to the sleep gods for you. Have you tried the couch?


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## flyingspaghettimama (Dec 18, 2001)

Oh cool - I know someone virtually who will be on TV! Yeah, tell us when you'll be on!

flapjack, why do you hate people? All people? Some people? One-half the people, one-quarter of the time? Do tell.

Spughy, is your couch more firm or less firm than the crib? Also, crib mattresses usually have an icky sound, y'know? that plastic covering, so necessary but so loud. Have you ever thought about a floor bed? Do you think she might like that?

Here is an interesting article on the same topic we've been talking about:
http://nymag.com/news/features/27840/index.html about praise. It does say that under age 6, kids won't notice so much the praise as far as being suspect, but after age 6 is when they start getting suspicious about it all. But that praising for the _effort_ is important. For me, personally, I would change that to noticing - i.e. so if they're proud of themselves for walking, saying "You're working so hard to walk!" in a happy tone of voice; or saying "You're so happy you're walking." You know, mirroring it back.


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Our couch is less firm than the crib mattress, and it is covered by a nice quilt. I covered the crib mattress with a quilt, to no avail, and the mattress doesn't make any crinkly noises. I made it as couch-like as possible - right down to putting a serenity fountain in the bedroom to mimic the sound of the fish tank in the living room - and it didn't make any difference. Maybe it's the curve of the pillow on the couch? When she's used to good sleeps I'll try her in the crib on a pillow instead.

BTW - totally off-topic... those google ads that come up - they're context-sensitive, right? Which is why there's always ads for sleep products on our thread?







But - where the heck are they getting the idea that we need hair removal products????


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flyingspaghettimama* 
Here is an interesting article on the same topic we've been talking about:
http://nymag.com/news/features/27840/index.html about praise. It does say that under age 6, kids won't notice so much the praise as far as being suspect, but after age 6 is when they start getting suspicious about it all. But that praising for the _effort_ is important. For me, personally, I would change that to noticing - i.e. so if they're proud of themselves for walking, saying "You're working so hard to walk!" in a happy tone of voice; or saying "You're so happy you're walking." You know, mirroring it back.

WOW that was an awesome article! It totally describes what happened to me as a child!!! I was praised for being smart throughout my entire school life and then when I hit university and it was hard and I didn't do well at first, I just kind of gave up. It took me 10 years to get a degree, and that was in English which I didn't have to really work at in University either!!! And I totally remember my mom ALWAYS saying "You're one of the smartest kids in school" and stuff like that. Wow.


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## kaspirant (Apr 28, 2006)

I can't keep up...>AHHHHH...between teaching hormone raging 8th graders, planning a wedding, and just being a mama and *wife* I'm spent..how do you ladies do it?!?!

OKay i'll try to catch up tonight...for us we've just been inundated with wedding lately. 47 days and counting!!

ETA *Amy* Your PM box is full!! I needed to tell you something....


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

OK: FSM, to answer the question, it's approximately 49% of the people, 15/24ths of the time. I'm fine when I'm asleep, and despite the bitchiness on the school run and the politics on my committee, I'm generally fine with women. Men- particularly the three I live with- are doing my head in, and I want to bang my head against a brick wall hard until my grey matter seeps slowly out of my ears and I no longer care if they make noise in tescos, or seek to micromanage every aspect of my life or act like a bit-part in an Edwardian melodrama. Plus, of course, the kitchen







Let's not talk about that bit









Barcelona, I'm a queen bee still at heart: so is DiD (aka the only woman in a housefull of boys). That's the big reason why I'm so excited for her







You'll probably find that as you go through life, you find yourself gravitating more to kinship with other mamas of boys (and after a while, you can spot them. Generally, the hair is longer and the clothes are slightly more feminine than mamas of daughters. I promise







)


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## eirual (Mar 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spughy* 

BTW - totally off-topic... those google ads that come up - they're context-sensitive, right? Which is why there's always ads for sleep products on our thread?







But - where the heck are they getting the idea that we need hair removal products????

...you should see all the adds for hair removal that come up in the hairy mama's forum...maybe they're following me







:

Quote:

Sometimes I get really frustrated with trying to change things that aren't up to me to change:
A quote along those lines:
*He who has so little knowledge of human nature as to seek hapiness by changing anything else but his own disposition will waste his life away in fruitless efforts~ Sammuel Johnson*


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## Bex80 (Feb 8, 2004)

I can hardley keep/catch up! It's been a week since Abigail was sick and now my ds Austin is almost all better.

I feel like such a loser, like I can never really keep up. I know it's probably hormones and sleep deprivation (and lack of bathing!) that has me feeling this way, but I guess you guys just flow so well and I have to consciously think of what to say, It just never comes out of my fingertips fluidly like a regular conversation. I am such a taker when it comes to relationships, my personal habit is to log on and talk about me. I think I'm doing it now!

Anyway, just wanted to get that out there. It's random and weird but that's the mood I'm in now.

Amy, I am totally feeling you on the sleep thing. Since Abigail was sick, even though she's better now, she is waking up every hour and a half. Unfortunately her room is upstairs and I have to make that trek every hour and half all night long. She gives me a good 2-3 hour stretch after I put her down initially, and then after 4 a.m. she will sleep another 2-3 hours, but inbetween she is up so much. I totally freaked out on ds today from the overwhelm of it. It gave me a new empathy for you mama.









Spiritmomma, love your prayer! I will try it and I'm going to sign up for the newsletter.









Soul Journey, your new name kicks ass!

DiD, I bought a girly carseat too! I got if Abigail for her 1st birthday. It's not a Britax, but it's super cute with flowers all over it. I think it's the Graco ComfortSport? We have really liked that model/style. I just started putting dd's hair in a little fountain ponytail. Cuteness!!

Welcome to the newest mamas, and I'm sorry for not doing personals on everyone. Like I said, I kind of suck right now. But it always seems to be a sucky time...

I'm going to take a shower while Abigail is still napping.







:


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## spiritmomma (Aug 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bex80*
I'm going to take a shower while Abigail is still napping.

Be careful with that one... I said the same thing and turned off the shower to hear Isa wailing and banging on her bedroom door.







: She was over the trauma in 30 seconds, but still... I felt SO bad!


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## Bex80 (Feb 8, 2004)

Spughy--just read what you said about the sippy cup, I wonder if that would help Abs? How did you figure it out that she was so thirsty? Was it a guess? You are lucky that your dh gets up, mine will not. My MIL suggested I try taking her a sippy of water in the night to "break her of *that* habit"







but like you, I don't think she'll accept it from me.


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## flyingspaghettimama (Dec 18, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
OK: FSM, to answer the question, it's approximately 49% of the people, 15/24ths of the time. I'm fine when I'm asleep, and despite the bitchiness on the school run and the politics on my committee, I'm generally fine with women. Men- particularly the three I live with- are doing my head in, and I want to bang my head against a brick wall hard until my grey matter seeps slowly out of my ears and I no longer care if they make noise in tescos, or seek to micromanage every aspect of my life or act like a bit-part in an Edwardian melodrama. Plus, of course, the kitchen







Let's not talk about that bit


Well, if it makes you feel any better, I love moms of multiple boys. They're always funny, always chill, and totally cool. A little crazy, too, but I like 'em like that.


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## MelW (Jan 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
Plus, of course, the kitchen







Let's not talk about that bit









Not exactly not talking about it...but I had a sobbing meltdown about our kitchen today. Not a new kitchen, just the freaking pile up of dishes that I can never seem to keep on top of. Yesterday asked for folding laundry and dish washing as foreplay


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bex80* 
Spughy--just read what you said about the sippy cup, I wonder if that would help Abs? How did you figure it out that she was so thirsty? Was it a guess? You are lucky that your dh gets up, mine will not. My MIL suggested I try taking her a sippy of water in the night to "break her of *that* habit"







but like you, I don't think she'll accept it from me.

It was partly a guess, and partly because I *knew* she couldn't be waking up hungry every time, because she eats plenty during the day, but she still wouldn't go back to sleep without a boob (she used to wake up and go back to sleep just with cuddles pretty easily), and she's not a big comfort nurser. It took me a while to clue in but after a couple of mornings of her waking up, nursing, and picking up her sippy cup right away and glugging, I got the message. Of course, it means she's nursing less now, which I'm not pleased about, but I don't see that I can do anything any differently given my work situation.

You could always give it a try with Abigail. Giving water at night IS considered a nightweaning technique though, just so you know. If you have an abundant supply I personally think it's better to nurse for thirst. I just don't have an abundant supply


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## Bex80 (Feb 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spughy* 
Giving water at night IS considered a nightweaning technique though, just so you know. If you have an abundant supply I personally think it's better to nurse for thirst. I just don't have an abundant supply

















I don't necessarily have an abundant supply, but it has increased during the last week due to her solely nursing for nutrition while her GI system was so jacked up.

I am torn when it comes to nightweaning. Sleep is sooo tantalizing, but I waited so long to nurse and I don't know if I want to instigate something that is the beginning of the end. I mean, it's the beginning of the end when they start solids and stuff, I get that, but I'm just an overthinker when it comes to stuff like this. I can hardly make a decision about what restaurant to go to when dh suggests eating out...







:


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## *Amy* (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MelW* 
Yesterday asked for folding laundry and dish washing as foreplay









Bwah ha hah!! That is fricking hilarious, but only so much so because I totally get you. I feel like my house is caving in upon me, all of the effing CRAP EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know it doesn't help we've been stuck in the house for over a week now because of the horrendously cold weather. Next week it's supposed to be in the 40s so at least I will feel OK taking Brynn out for a stroller walk.

Hey, thanks for all of the empathy and suggestions about the sleep sitch, once again. I hadn't thought of the couch or the sippy cup idea, but I will see if we can incorporate either, or something along those lines. Our house is really dry too, so that could defintely be an issue. And Bex, at least Brynn is in our room with us so I don't have to climb stairs 50 times a night. That sucks!!

I actually came on to post that despite all my wah-wah-wahhhhhhhhing about the sleep, things have felt really good the past few days with Brynn. I feel so in love with her, and it seems like she gets exponentially cuter every day. I'm totally having a babymoon all over again! So I just wanted to add that positive note, since seems like all I do lately is complain.

And on that happiness, I am going to go sit on the couch with my husband and watch me some Survivor! (How I love my Tivo!)


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## SoulJourney (Sep 26, 2005)

Sheesh y'all are CHATTY!

Noah is akwardly attached to my boob right now but I wanted to say hola! I'll be back later this weekend to post.








you guys!

Michelle


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## Gunter (May 5, 2005)

so, i was mia for a while there and just got to read a few of the posts. sorry for causing the controversy over praise and all. i am right along with you all as a new mom just trying to figure stuff out. hope that i didn't come across as harsh for people who do say "good job" b/c that's not what i would want to do. i want to strike a balance and to consider the impact words have for my life.

you all have been with me since i was preggo and trying to plan a homebirth against the grain. so, i look to you all as a sounding board for parenting, pretty much in general. thanks for letting me work things out. i appreciate all of the experiences and thoughts that you have shared about kohn's philosophy. thanks so much for being willing to share and help a fellow mama out. what a winding road parenting can be, eh?


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Gunter, we love you too







though I don't see this one as having been a controversial discussion.
Skye is in her element today: we are installing the kitchen, which means screwdrivers. Life does not get better for her than days with screwdrivers- I don't know what the fascination is but she LOVES them. She's not so bothered with hammers or spanners, but leave something heavy with a sharp point lying around and she's over there like a flash


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

I think that having a new baby has made me fall in love with my other children all over again. I am so blissfully over the moon adoring my boys and I especially love how each of them loves baby Suriya in their own special way.
And I love nursing Winter to sleep. I'm not sure he's aware he can ask to nurse during the daytime too, because I've seen him eyeing the baby while she's nursing but I don't think he knows how to ask. When I tell him "Let's go night night" he takes off down the hall to our bedroom and you can just tell he's been waiting for our special moment all day. He so far is listening really well when I tell him "Let's switch sides," he'll unlatch without any protest and then when his teeth started to bother me too much I told him "All done" and he unlatched and rolled over and went to sleep. He's turning into an amazing boy and he'll mostly do what he's asked, especially if it's Jim who's asking.
Anyway, I think we're finally past what I call the "witching hour" which is the middle of the night fussing session so I'm going to go try to get some more sleep before the boys are up.


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## spiritmomma (Aug 29, 2005)

We've had several busy weekends in a row... And this one is no exception.
Today:
Before noon:
Library to drop off due items and pick up several episodes of Signing Time
Joshua goes to Indiana Blood Center to donate
1:00pm Evan's First Birthday party
3:00pm Itsy Bitsy Yoga (intrigued? Click here)
4:00pm Gathering of a yoga community (with a previous teacher that I miss.)

*sigh* It's all good stuff, I'm just tired. Hope everyone has a great weekend!







:


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Wow, spiritmomma, that's a lot of stuff. My day consisted of building kitchen units, coercing, bribing and blackmailing my eldest two into tidying their bedroom so Isaac stands a teeny, tiny chance of finding his glasses and hiding from the chaos on the internet.
In case you were wondering, the base units are built and installed and we feel very very proud of ourselves. Tomorrow, we do the worktops, the sink, hopefully the gas hob and maybe even the doors.


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## barcelona (May 1, 2006)

what busy mamas you all are! hope you get some rest in there, too...jaymi and helen. hooray on the kitchen! what a feat, and an accomplishment. i'm glad little skye is keeping entertained.

Did, your postings about winter nursing bring tears to my eyes every time i read them. i am so thrilled you two are able to have your nursing connection again. how beautiful. and how wonderful that all of your boys are loving suriya, and how great that the new one brings new waves of love for everyone.

i know what you all mean about loving the babes. i'm feeling that way about finley. he is just too cute to handle, and i'm overwhelmed by my love for him daily. it's so nice to be able to relax and say that here and know that you all know what i mean, and to read it from other mamas.

amy, i know what you mean about feeling stuck in the house!!! we have been stuck here (in our small brooklyn apartment), due to the freezing weather, and now me due to my cold. i hope it warms up soon! i feel so bad for finley, cause i can see him going stir crazy, not to mention having a boring-sick mom.

i had a bit of a panic these past few days, because i have literally been sick almost every week for the past two months...and, you don't know this about me, but i'll share: i have chronic hep. b, which i contracted from a blood transfusion when i was an infant. when i was 13 and 14, i went through intense interferon treatments (similar to chemo), and went into remission when i was 16. it has since been "inactive"/in remission. but, there is always this looming chance that it could flip and become active again.

b/c of my having it, regardless of it being active or not, my immune system is already a bit weak, so i tend to get whatever comes around (despite practicing yoga, eating very healthy, taking vitamins, etc).

but this amount of getting sick has me worried that it has come back...i got into a bit of a panic yesterday, but have since resolved that it cannot be back; i will not let it come back. but, the scare and possibility of it all really shook me. i'm going to the doctor on tuesday to get my labs done, which i'm supposed to have every six months, but haven't had in a year.

i truly think that i've been sick b/c of my immune system being weak combined with the utter exhaustion of taking care of finley, and the lack in quality of sleep for a year. it makes sense, right?

so, in the meantime, do you mamas have any suggestions of what i can do to jack up my immune system? (naturally, of course) i am REALLY SICK of being sick so often. it is really getting old. i can't get anything done. i want to play with finley. my poor dh... any and every suggestion is so welcome...be it to boost immunity and/or cure what i have now (i'm currently down with a cough and stuff in my upper chest, lowgrade fever, and aches, and very raspy voice). on monday, i'll call our very cool homeopathic/also md doctor to see what he recommends.

thanks for listening to my long vent. it feels good to share here, and i daren't share these fears with anyone other than DH IRL, b/c they'll freak out.

tis all for now. am off to try and be a bit productive while DH is out at the indoor playground place with finley.


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## barcelona (May 1, 2006)

i hope i didn't scare anyone with my serious heavy rant, nor come across as selfish, talking on so much about myself.
i just needed to get it out and it felt good to share with you all.

thanks for listening.

i know it's silly for me to have worried before there was a real reason to, but i had my moment of weakness. i really do feel relatively optimistic about my health at the moment, and am focused to find some natural remedies that help boost my immune system.

my DH, being a filmmaker, went out to see a couple of movies, so i'm in bed with sleeping finley hanging out online and reading. it's nice









hope you're all getting some good night's sleep in!


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## spiritmomma (Aug 29, 2005)

Barcelona: Not scared off, just thinking of ways to help...
Have you tried acupunture, craniosacral therapy, massage? I would especially recommend Lymph drainage massage. It can really help clear the body of toxins and keep one well. (My DH is in massage school, so I'm learning a lot while he's learning!) Glad you're getting a moment to yourself, too. That keeps me well!


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

I asked Winter to nurse during the day today because I was so uncomfortable and Suriya was just full to the brim.







Of course he was happy to oblige. Wow. Nothing can take care of a full boob like a toddler! He nursed again at nap time and then will again at bedtime. 3 times in one day! Yay!








My midwife came for our postpartum check and Suriya is up to 8 lbs. 15 oz. (with clothes on) so we're wondering if she even lost any weight after birth. She was 8 lbs. 4 oz. at birth just 8 days ago.
We got the Britax installed in the car today and it is so huge. She looks so tiny in it but I love it. It's so freakishly pink!


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## flyingspaghettimama (Dec 18, 2001)

DiD, sounds like you should take a picture of that cute scene.

barcelona, you might hate me because I was like a broken record (boy, that's an antiquated phrase now, eh) on immune system support during the pregnancy. The only way that I've found to have a really great immune system (for me) is to exercise at least every other day. I mean SWEATY exercise. And in the past few weeks, I've read a few studies that said that indeed, exercise plays a huge role in boosting the immune system, and it's cumulative - as in, in a month you will be getting sick far less than you do now, if you exercise 3-5 times per week. I know gyms aren't cheap in the city, but maybe there's someplace you could get into? Or running in Central Park (ahh....how nice...).

I've also found that frequent handwashing after playdates helps...

Sleep helps too. HAHAHAHA ha. ha. ha. waaaa. I remember sleep...


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Yeah, barcelona, I'm getting sick all the time too and there's nothing wrong with me that some good sweaty exercise and some sleep wouldn't fix. I think it's the cumulative effect of two years of supporting another human with your body, and pandering to that other human's insane sleep schedule, and not taking time to do sensible things like exercise.

I just can't exercise. If I do, my milk supply tanks. I have proved this through several experiments and it really pisses me off. Please excuse my language but polite ways of saying that just don't cut it. However, I just went a record 6 weeks (I think) without a cold apparently by cutting the refined carbs out of my diet. No, wait, it was more like 2 months since my last cold. Whatever, changing my diet seemed to do something but I've got a sore throat now and I'm feeling crappy, so it's not 100% effective or anything.

Damn viruses. I am going to be sick for Chinese New Year dinner. POOEY. I'll still go. I just won't enjoy it as much as I usually do.


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## flyingspaghettimama (Dec 18, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spughy* 
Yeah, barcelona, I'm getting sick all the time too and there's nothing wrong with me that some good sweaty exercise and some sleep wouldn't fix. I think it's the cumulative effect of two years of supporting another human with your body, and pandering to that other human's insane sleep schedule, and not taking time to do sensible things like exercise.

I just can't exercise. If I do, my milk supply tanks. I have proved this through several experiments and it really pisses me off. Please excuse my language but polite ways of saying that just don't cut it. However, I just went a record 6 weeks (I think) without a cold apparently by cutting the refined carbs out of my diet. No, wait, it was more like 2 months since my last cold. Whatever, changing my diet seemed to do something but I've got a sore throat now and I'm feeling crappy, so it's not 100% effective or anything..

Sadly, this happens to me too (tanking milk supply), and I don't usually have a problem with too little milk. I have to drink a LOT of water to make up for it,more than seems humanly possible, and eat a lot. So it is not so much about weight loss in my case, unfortunately. I'm feeling not so bad about it lately though with him eating more, but I'm definitely not able to work out like I even did when I was pregnant. And I am sick, often this year. Did anyone else get the rotovirus that makes you puke for 24 hours straight, every half-hour, combined with fever? That was fun. And then the flu with two days of 102fever followed by snot and coughs? This has been a rough year I think, unusually so in the NW. Three kids have died here in the past week from the flu.

I might try your cutting of refined carbs, Spughy. Does that include all breads?


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Barcelona, I didn't respond cos I was asleep, not because I was ignoring you








In your shoes, I'd probably go and find a classical homoeopath to ask them to help bring your body back into balance. Very gentle vibrational remedies, nothing drastic, but for me it really helps: it also has a drastic effect on my immuno-compromised littlun.
I'm not getting sick, and I'm basically a couch potato with legs. Let that be a moral to you all- that exercise is a bad thing







(you know i'm joking,right?)


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## SoulJourney (Sep 26, 2005)

Just a quick drop in for Barcelona:








Our D.O. suggested echinacea one week out of every month, especially through the winter season, to boost our immune systems. I just try to time it that we are doing the echinacea around times we might have been around someone else who's sick. That, along with Emergen-C, boosting my vitamin intake, trying to fit in random naps when I haven't been getting proper sleep and exercise ALL REALLY have helped to keep me healthy this winter. And I've been around someone else's almost CONSTANTLY sick baby all winter. Hope that helps!
Oh...I'll be e-mailing you as soon as I have longer than 30 seconds with free hands!

Bex80: THANKS! I think it kicks ass, too!

I'll be back when Noah isn't trying to call China on the phone! Ack!!!







:


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## barcelona (May 1, 2006)

Wow, mamas. Thanks so much for the health recommendations. I didn't mean to steal the thread, and we can all move on now, but I really really appreciate your input and help. I will definitely be taking further action to get my body back in proper health. And I'll keep you posted on my progress!

I should probably do more aerobic exercise, not just yoga and NYC walking, but can't afford a gym right now, and am unable to run due to a foot issue. So, for now the best I can do is the weekly yoga, and the stuff that comes with life in the city with a toddler. In some ways, I actually feel in better shape than ever. But, obviously I'm not in shape all over, since I'm so constantly sick.

Did, That is so great about the thrice-nursing day!

You guys are the best! Thanks again.
And I hope you're having a restful happy Sunday.


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flyingspaghettimama* 
I might try your cutting of refined carbs, Spughy. Does that include all breads?

Nope, just breads made with white flour. Whole wheat flour is ok, sourdough preferable because it has more bioavailable nutrients. Basically just cut white flour, sugar, and white rice out of your diet. I let myself have small amounts of non-refined, natural source sweeteners, like honey and sucanat, but not too much. And the odd bit of white flour does get into things I make like pancakes just for palatability. But mostly I'm on all whole grains and no sugar. I didn't do this for my immune system, I did it to stop gaining weight and to equalize my energy levels, and it's working nicely for that too.

Back to our regularly scheduled baby stuff - I've been taking Rowan to kindermusic classes on Saturday mornings and it's hard to tell if she actually enjoys them. She's so solemn compared to the other kids - she mostly just watches, although she tried to get in on the instructor's lap spot for storytime (she was edged out by another little boy, tried to perch on her knee for a bit then gave up







) She like to put the instruments away rather than play with them. And yet, she'll go and do things later on that she saw in the class, like rolling on a ball. So I guess she's getting something out of it. I just feel a bit awkward being the one mum in the class whose kid is standing to one side just staring at everyone. Oh well, at least *I* sing along...

Anyone else have a very reserved kid? I wouldn't say Rowan is shy - she doesn't hesitate to approach someone if they've got something interesting - but she rarely smiles at people she doesn't know really well.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Barcelona, ha! My restful sunday has consisted of installing kitchen units- we have the worktops on.
Spughy, Skye is shy in public too- she does much better with older children than her peers.


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## barcelona (May 1, 2006)

spughy, your diet sounds very admirable. i'm good about the no white flour and no white rice, but i am a sugar freak!!! (especially chocolate). i don't know how i'd be able to cut it out. i suppose if i really wanted to, i could.

also, finley's another pretty reserved boy. the only class we do is the babyfingers class i teach, and he spends most of the class quietly sitting in my lap looking at the other kids, and almost never smiles. sometimes he'll participate, but it's quite solemn and serious, most of the time. he is pretty reserved with other children.

he seems much more comfortable with adults and/or older kids, especially ones he knows, and especially in one on one situations. i try to expose him to as many children and playgroups as i can feasibly pull off, but it doesn't seem to make much of a difference in terms of his reservation in groups of children.

so, all that to say....you're not the only one!


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

So is everyone else continuing to expose their more reserved kids to these situations? Or has anyone decided to try avoiding them in the short term, and see what happens? We tried that with yoga (I decided not to do a second term because I spent all the session with Skye glued to me- made for some interesting poses







) but most of the stuff I've been doing recently is with the NCT, and I can't really get out of it.
Here's a question: does anyone else find that total strangers comment on your walking toddler? ESPECIALLY if they have a little one of their own with them? I've heard so many times "See, Lily/Sammy/Freddy, that's what YOU should be doing..." HOW is that going to help anyone? And then there's the cheerful naysayers who don't believe that Skye will ever sit happily in a buggy again- or a sling.


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## spiritmomma (Aug 29, 2005)

Around people she sees with some frequency (once a month or more) Isa is a total ham. Around complete strangers, she's either a total ham or hides between my legs (or DH's). You never know which Isa you will get. It seems not to follow any pattern. Maybe it's her mood?

Glad to hear your kitchen is coming along, Helen... Soon, soon, it will be finished. Ahhh.... then you can get it all messy with fabulous cooking!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *FSM*
DiD, sounds like you should take a picture of that cute scene.

Yeah, I second this. Where are the pics of Suriya in her girly pink seat???

Oh and I also second SoulJourney that it's SO nice to have you back around FSM! I totally love you!


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## lunchbox (May 14, 2003)

I can't remember if I already posted here. I don't think I did as I've only recently returned to Mothering after leaving a mainstream site I'd been on for 6 years.









Anywho, my 11/05 baby is Della Fern. She weighs 36 lbs 10 oz. We are currently undergoing testing to determine why she is anemic. After a month of using vitamins with iron, her iron levels did not rise (7.4 v. 7.8). I am a wreck. I posted about toddler anemia in the Health Forum but didn't get many responses. She isn't that interested in solids, just the boob so its been hard to encourage her to each iron-rich foods.

Glad to be here.


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## Queen of Cups (Aug 29, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *barcelona* 
so, in the meantime, do you mamas have any suggestions of what i can do to jack up my immune system? (naturally, of course) i am REALLY SICK of being sick so often. it is really getting old. i can't get anything done. i want to play with finley. my poor dh... any and every suggestion is so welcome...be it to boost immunity and/or cure what i have now (i'm currently down with a cough and stuff in my upper chest, lowgrade fever, and aches, and very raspy voice). on monday, i'll call our very cool homeopathic/also md doctor to see what he recommends.

Try incorporating more raw dark leafy greens into your diet. I swear, on the days I have a smoothie with kale in it I feel so much more energetic and strong! I hope things get better for you. I'm feeling pretty weak and depleted myself, too, with my massive eye infection and having to see the eye doctor every week for who knows how long until its cleared up...


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

lunchbox, I'm sure you already posted???? Anyhow, on the anaemia: why was it diagnosed? Did they do a routine blood draw to look for her iron levels, or did you ask for it to be done because you had a specific concern about her health?
As far as supplements go, you'll probably get the biggest chance from floradix in conjunction with a high vitamin-C food like mangoes (or orange juice, but most toddlers seem better at eating mangoes.)

It seems like life is finally calming down slightly for people around here: just think, next month is our anniversary and we'll have been a DDC for two whole years! (I think- anyone remember when they actually opened Nov05?) Let's put in a request for a slow, boring monthly update thread where we talk about nothing but babies, wedding plans and cake recipes- please?


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## *Amy* (Jun 16, 2004)

Hey Mamas, I have had a *really* busy weekend (DH is traveling again, etc.) so I haven't had time to read all of the posts - but I just came to selfishly ask for some JOB VIBES for DH. He submitted his resume for a job that he is perfectly qualified for in Southern Oregon, which is where I grew up. I want to move back home!!! So if you have any extra positive energy today, please help to send my family back to Oregon.







:









Thanks!


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## barcelona (May 1, 2006)

lunchbox, we have seen you this month! as for the iron thing, i don't have much help, except you can try putting blackstrap molasses in some plain yogurt or something. not the healthiest thing, i suppose, but it does have a good amount of iron. good luck! i'm sorry i can't help more. sounds like the pp have good suggestions.

and *amy*, sending many positive vibes your family's way! how wonderful it would be to return to oregon and to your home!!! can't wait to see where y'all end up.

and helen, i second that wish for a calm month with quiet chatter on babies and recipes and wedding bells.


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Queen of Cups* 
Gosh, are you all being serious about this huge mama-guilt over saying "good job" occasionally? Sorry, but I don't subscribe to the idea that its damaging. We try not to overuse praise or manipulate with it, but I have zero problems complimenting my kids when I'm proud of them. I use "good job," "how smart!," and "you know, you're a really great kid!" a lot with my kids - because I mean it. If ya'll really think that makes me a bad mom, then I have to say I'm kind of shocked. I've seen way too many parents that treat their kids like crap to beat myself up over giving out compliments. I know I sound crazy-on-the-offensive, but this topic is a bit of pet peeve with me. I would much rather see a parent doing something silly like saying "good job" about eating ice cream, than hear a parent saying "I'm going to beat your ass!" when a kid does something their displeased with.. but I feel like I hear the latter more often, so I don't worry about the former. I feel like there's this attitude that none of us (mothers) are ever good enough, and this is a new way that "good" parents can pick at each other. It really makes me not want to hang out with AP friends when I think about the fact that if Killy puts a puzzle together and I tell him "good job," that everyone's going to be rolling their eyes behind my back and calling me a coercive parent. UGH! I should probably have just put that in my blog, but I shared it because maybe there's another mama in this group who's tired of feeling like crap for using the phrase "good job." If there is - you're not alone!

Valentine's Day: We had a lovely day! Ridiculous amount of presents from the grandparents arrived in the mail, we had donuts for breakfast, made thank-you notes this afternoon (with all the art supplies the kids got in their packages) and went out to eat at a nice Italian restaurant. Both kids behaved amazingly! It was just a lovely, relaxing evening out. And, what's more romantic than that? (Well, quite a few things, but nothing very reasonable with a 1 year old and a 2 year old in tow!)

I sometimes say "good job" to Ella--I don't have an inherent objection to praising a child when they have done something impressive. I like to be praised sometimes too!! My objection to using it/hearing it used in certain contexts is it becomes a rote thing to say that has no meaning. Parents sometimes get used to saying "good job" at every turn, and it's sort of an automatic response, not genuine praise. Like in the grocery store line when you have the classic exchange, "How are you doing today?" "Fine." The cashier doesn't care how you really are doing, and you may not really be fine, but it's just a linguistic convention to say that. To me, that's not a very genuine way to relate to anybody.


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spiritmomma* 
We've had several busy weekends in a row... And this one is no exception.
Today:
Before noon:
Library to drop off due items and pick up several episodes of Signing Time
Joshua goes to Indiana Blood Center to donate
1:00pm Evan's First Birthday party
3:00pm Itsy Bitsy Yoga (intrigued? Click here)
4:00pm Gathering of a yoga community (with a previous teacher that I miss.)

*sigh* It's all good stuff, I'm just tired. Hope everyone has a great weekend!







:

Oh my gosh, be careful with signing time!! It's addictive!!!









I've actually started letting Ella watch that or some PBS so I can shower. It's the only way she will be okay--if she's asleep, it will wake her up, and if she's on the loose in the house she will freak out if she hears the shower start running. (I think because she's not invited!!!) So I put her in the jumperoo in front of the TV.







:

Anyway, I feel bad because she has gotten soooooo into it! She actually says "signing time" although it comes out more like "nye-ni-nime" and she has learned the sign for "time" and signs it to tell me she wants to watch signing time!!!

Ah well.


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Amy it'd be so neat to have you out here, there'd be a good chance we could meet up some day! Sending job vibes for your DH!
Suriya slept so much better last night. I still feel like a zombie but I got to stay in my bed all night for once. Well, except for the three diaper changes but at least I didn't spend two hours in the living room with a crying baby.
Winter is getting much more comfortable asking to nurse when ever he wants and it's so neat. Tandem nursing is so nice.
I'll get pictures of Suriya in her pink girly carseat as soon as my digital camera arrives! I ordered it a week ago so it should be here soon.


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## Phoenix_Rising (Jun 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spiritmomma* 
Sometimes I get really frustrated with trying to change things that aren't up to me to change: "Isa why won't you pee?" "Isa, why won't you sleep?" "Isa, why will you not give up the invisible object of your desire and just relax and chill out?" When what I ought to be changing is the sense of urgency and irritation in myself.

I LOVE THIS!!!!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 







I hate people. I'm going to go and sit in the middle of a field surrounded only by 1yos, with their cute and inspiring ways, and have my hair pulled. Once a year, on the 16th of February, the toddlers will be replaced with a new crop of toddlers, and this is how I spend my life.
Skye is so much nicer than the other people I know, y'know? As long as she's covered in mud and nutritionally questionable foodstuffs, she's happy.

Helen - I'm sorry you are having a rough time. I'm thinking of you. . .

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
You'll probably find that as you go through life, you find yourself gravitating more to kinship with other mamas of boys (and after a while, you can spot them. Generally, the hair is longer and the clothes are slightly more feminine than mamas of daughters. I promise







)

I'd love to hear some theories on this - never heard of it before.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MelW* 
Yesterday asked for folding laundry and dish washing as foreplay









And did it work???

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DreamsInDigital* 
And I love nursing Winter to sleep. I'm not sure he's aware he can ask to nurse during the daytime too, because I've seen him eyeing the baby while she's nursing but I don't think he knows how to ask. When I tell him "Let's go night night" he takes off down the hall to our bedroom and you can just tell he's been waiting for our special moment all day. He so far is listening really well when I tell him "Let's switch sides," he'll unlatch without any protest and then when his teeth started to bother me too much I told him "All done" and he unlatched and rolled over and went to sleep.

I am so glad this has turned out so well for you









Quote:


Originally Posted by **Amy** 
Hey Mamas, I have had a *really* busy weekend (DH is traveling again, etc.) so I haven't had time to read all of the posts - but I just came to selfishly ask for some JOB VIBES for DH. He submitted his resume for a job that he is perfectly qualified for in Southern Oregon, which is where I grew up. I want to move back home!!! So if you have any extra positive energy today, please help to send my family back to Oregon.







:









Thanks!

I'd love it if you were in Oregon









And in our news KeaganRae did not nurse ALL DAY on Saturday which means I had to pump - which I HATE!!!! Thankfully he went back to nursing like normal on Sunday. And then proceeded to wake me probably at least 10-12 times last night to nurse. Trying. to. function. Need. sleep. Ugh.


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Hi All! Gung Hay Fat Choy!!! (a bit late







)

We went to Chinese New Year Dinner last night and it was only by virtue of Rowan's amazingness that it wasn't a huge disaster. It took 2 HOURS for us to get our food. The restaurant was super-busy, there were take-out orders flying out the door, and we were two tables of 10. Who PREORDERED their food. You would think that they'd be able to figure that out, but no. We got to the restaurant at 6, Stirling took Rowan for a walk when no food was forthcoming by 7, came back after half an hour and we'd been served just the soup. Which Rowan sucked back like there was no tomorrow (have to get the recipe for that one!). But then we waited another half hour before the rest of our food started to arrive. All in all, we were at the restaurant for nearly 3 hours. Rowan ate very little besides the soup and some mushrooms, but she's got a nasty cold and her appetite's been crappy anyway. But she managed to get through dinner without a meltdown, doing some lap-hopping, nibbling on a few things here and there, cheerfully playing with food if not eating it. She was a little star. And so cute in her little outfit!

Amy - I'm thinking happy job thoughts for your DH!

Susannah -sorry about your lack of sleep! ugh!


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

gosh you folks are chatty!

my brain is way too tired these days to have any sort of functional conversation..so i read most of the posts but then cant thing of what to reply







: ngaio's teething and fitful sleeping paired with my waking at 6am for work most days and going to bed past midnight leave me..well...







:
im trying desperately to get some things knit to mail off..and all of a sudden i have bills and friggin collectins agencies wanting my money. i work SO hard for it and they just swoop in and take it all! grr.
anyways..enuff about me









love to you all!


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

sarah: rowan is so cute!


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## MelW (Jan 13, 2005)

I'm also reading along and trying to find a free hand to type a response...thinking of all of you (or you all, as I'm learning to say).

Speaking of "automatic" responses like "good job" or "fine"...Neela says "welcome" all of the time to me. She's so used to me thanking her, I guess







And I am totally trained to say "you're welcome" to every "thank you", despite the local custom to reply "uh-huh".

As for the dishes... dh has been keeping the kitchen very, very clean since my meltdown







:

Has anyone made a doll sling for your babe? I've checked out a couple of free patterns online, but would be happy to see some more links. Neela keeps giving toys a "ride" in my ring sling, but it almost drags on the floor. She would love her own, I think.

And on the endless topic of sleep...I've re-joined the sleepless mama club. Neela has been back at her early rising for over a week- we're back to the six am wake up, which is brutal for me since I work until 11:30 pm. I've been napping with her on days I work, but really feeling the lack of free time. And the kicker...she instantly wakes up if I start my sewing machine. I've ruined several naps in the past couple of weeks with my desire to sew







: I can vacuum, listen to music or make any other kind of noise and she sleeps on ???


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## *Amy* (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MelW* 
Has anyone made a doll sling for your babe?

I made one for a customer last week, and let Brynnie try it on. She seemed really intrigued at first, but it only lasted a couple of minutes, and then she wanted it off. I may make her one of her own and try again in a month or two.

I am so tired right now but have to go pick up DH at the airport at 11:fricking:30 tonight, so I am thinking I might as well just stay up til it's time to go. I'd probably feel worse if I went to sleep and had to get up and be functional after 2 hours.







: It's annoying, but had to be done for the $136 (vs. $800) airfare.

So yeah, he had several interviews today with different companies, none of which are in locations we'd want to move to. The one he feels most hopeful/positive about is in Nebraska. Not that there's anything wrong with Nebraska, but it's this tiny little town about 2 hours north-east of Denver, Co, and let me just say that there is *nothing* out there. If he got the job, it would probably only be for a couple of years in that location, and then we'd be able to move somewhere more appealing. But I'm sure it would be a very long 2 years, if that's what we end up doing!! It may be worth it though because with DH's salary + the *very* low cost of living there, we'd be able to save about $30k (or more) each year for the time we would be there. It would be hard to pass that up! But anyway, nothing firm yet; still prospects in Detroit, possibly Chicago, and then the job in Oregon I'm keeping my fingers crossed for.

Fern, I have noticed that you haven't been on much. You must be so tired, Mama!! Is there an end in sight for your daycare kids, or do you have to keep on keeping on for the money? Sounds like you are really burning the candle at both ends, and I hope it lets up soon.

Spughy, Rowan is such a sweet darlin! Brynn would probably flip out if confined for that long. She is starting to eat more though, so at least we can keep her occupied for the average restaurant visit these days. Yay for that!

All you Signing Time Mamas, I am so jealous! We don't get it on our PBS station.







I wonder if there are videos at the library or something.

SoulJourney, I peeked in on your blog the other day. The pics are beautiful! And I totally hear you on the calling China thing - Brynn is always trying to call someone. She picks up the phone and says, "Talk, Daddy. Hello? Hi Daddy!" or "Call Papa!" and then when I actually put her on the phone with someone, she clams up. Of course!!









So here's a random thought for y'all (especially the non-sleeping Mamas): I was reading the Dr. Sears Baby Book, I think it was the chapter on sleep, and it mentions some medical reasons why babies may be frequent night wakers. One suggestion is a food allergy, which could cause restlessness and/or intestinal discomfort. Brynn doesn't have any food allergies that I have been able to detect, but I am wondering if it might be woth it to go off milk (me; she doesn't drink it yet anyway) for a few weeks and see what happens. It probably wouldn't change anything, but I do remember one of the times when we were in Texas, I didn't have milk for like 3 days, and it was one of the times that I noticed she slept so much better. So...I dunno. Any thoughts? FWIW, she has also always had very green mucousy poo that smells VERY strange (like vinegar?), and I've always wondered if it might be a food allergy. But never really did anything about it, cause I'm lazy like that.









So that's it for me. Guess I'll go watch reruns of Sex & The City til 11:00. Ughhhh.


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## lunchbox (May 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
lunchbox, I'm sure you already posted???? Anyhow, on the anaemia: why was it diagnosed? Did they do a routine blood draw to look for her iron levels, or did you ask for it to be done because you had a specific concern about her health?
As far as supplements go, you'll probably get the biggest chance from floradix in conjunction with a high vitamin-C food like mangoes (or orange juice, but most toddlers seem better at eating mangoes.)


They did a routine check at the ped. Our labs from the hospital came back today and its still very low. We are now doing iron drops. I just can't get her to eat much of anything other than BM. She does like oranges so I'll give her those.

My 4 year old had such a huge appetite from the get-go that this is very strange, especially since she is so big.


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## spiritmomma (Aug 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kavita* 
Oh my gosh, be careful with signing time!! It's addictive!!!









I've actually started letting Ella watch that or some PBS so I can shower. It's the only way she will be okay--if she's asleep, it will wake her up, and if she's on the loose in the house she will freak out if she hears the shower start running. (I think because she's not invited!!!) So I put her in the jumperoo in front of the TV.







:

Anyway, I feel bad because she has gotten soooooo into it! She actually says "signing time" although it comes out more like "nye-ni-nime" and she has learned the sign for "time" and signs it to tell me she wants to watch signing time!!!

Ah well.

Oh.... you don't have to tell ME it's addictive. Tell Isa! She is CRAZY about ST! We are a TV free household, so we watch it on my laptop on dvd. Sometimes I wish she were confined to watching it once a week on PBS, but then again, she does know like 150 signs or something ridiculous like that. (I stopped counting at 120 when she was a year old). So now you can feel better about parking your kid in front of it to get a shower. I've done it a zillion times. Well, maybe not a zillion. I don't feel like I get _nearly that many_ showers!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *spughy* 
She was a little star. And so cute in her little outfit!

So freakin' cute! I love it!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MelW* 
And on the endless topic of sleep...I've re-joined the sleepless mama club. Neela has been back at her early rising for over a week- we're back to the six am wake up, which is brutal for me since I work until 11:30 pm. I've been napping with her on days I work, but really feeling the lack of free time. And the kicker...she instantly wakes up if I start my sewing machine. I've ruined several naps in the past couple of weeks with my desire to sew







: I can vacuum, listen to music or make any other kind of noise and she sleeps on ???

Thanks for the heads up... I was just thinking about trying to use my serger that I got for the holidays. It's still in the box







Now I think I'll wait until she can play downstairs while I sew.... I wonder if she'd watch ST! in the basement.....









Quote:


Originally Posted by **Amy** 
All you Signing Time Mamas, I am so jealous! We don't get it on our PBS station.







I wonder if there are videos at the library or something.

If you don't see it on the shelf, ask at the desk. Our library rocks totally (and I realize not all libraries do...) but I have requested that they order episodes and they got them for me. So ask. The worst that can happen is they'll say no!

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Amy** 
I've always wondered if it might be a food allergy. But never really did anything about it, cause I'm lazy like that.









Dude... That is SO me. I think Isa has an allergy to something because she gets little bumps (eczema?) on her legs. And she has restless sleep. And sometimes weird poop (though not often). How many more clues do I need?!?!? The truth is, I like refined sugar, I like a glass or 2 or chocolate milk everyday, and I really like wheat!







: Shame on ME!!!!

Hope everyone's week is starting off well. Love to ALL!







:


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## Phoenix_Rising (Jun 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Amy** 
So here's a random thought for y'all (especially the non-sleeping Mamas): I was reading the Dr. Sears Baby Book, I think it was the chapter on sleep, and it mentions some medical reasons why babies may be frequent night wakers. One suggestion is a food allergy, which could cause restlessness and/or intestinal discomfort. Brynn doesn't have any food allergies that I have been able to detect, but I am wondering if it might be woth it to go off milk (me; she doesn't drink it yet anyway) for a few weeks and see what happens.

Hmm. I read that too last week. I feel like I have dairy so infrequently that Keagan would sleep so much better than he does if that were the issue. Wheat, though is a different story. I am a sucker for bread. And just about anything baked.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spiritmomma* 
Oh.... you don't have to tell ME it's addictive. Tell Isa! She is CRAZY about ST! We are a TV free household, so we watch it on my laptop on dvd. Sometimes I wish she were confined to watching it once a week on PBS, but then again, she does know like 150 signs or something ridiculous like that. (I stopped counting at 120 when she was a year old).

150 signs? OMG! I think we are stalled at like - oh, maybe 5????


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

I'm a bad mama- I never bothered teaching her to sign. I've noticed she does the open-close hand thing instinctively for "give me that there thing right now" though.
And our obsession is Thomas the Tank Engine. AGAIN







. After having two boys, I thought I'd escape spending the next two years freezing my nipples off at "A Day out with Thomas" and memorising every single one of those dastardly videos. How wrong could I be?







I tell you, mamas, I don't know if I have the strength for this. OTOH, she saw a little mermaid doll in the toyshop yesterday, pulled her bikini top off and said BOOBIE in a loud tone of voice


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## spiritmomma (Aug 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Susannah M* 
150 signs? OMG! I think we are stalled at like - oh, maybe 5????

Isa (in addition to being completlely addicted to ST!) gets a lot of exposure to the Deaf community through our church. There is always an interpreter for the service, all the songs, children's time, etc... And the fact that all the Deaf people there know she signs causes them to sign to her as if she were a Deaf baby. This, I think, makes a gigantic difference in the same way hearing lots of people speak French all the time would help you learn faster.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
I'm a bad mama- I never bothered teaching her to sign. I've noticed she does the open-close hand thing instinctively for "give me that there thing right now" though...... OTOH, she saw a little mermaid doll in the toyshop yesterday, pulled her bikini top off and said BOOBIE in a loud tone of voice









Hilarious!!! Thanks for the morning laugh!


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Hee! Helen, that's funny. Oh and I'm a bad mom who never taught her kid signs either. And Rowan is late developing language (compared to the rest of your kids) but somehow manages to communicate pretty well. She's got her animal noises down pat now though, and has added a dog sound to the eagle, lamb, and cat noises she was already doing. Otherwise it's bye-bye, yes, no, up and down. That covers 80% of what she wants, anyway.

I got SLEEP last night. Rowan went to bed at 8, work up twice at around 9:30, she sat up, DH offered her sippy cup, she had a glug, and then LAY DOWN ON HER OWN and went back to sleep. That's a first!!! He thinks picking her up was just making her more awake so he decided to skip that step and it worked. And she slept the rest of the night right through, despite falling off the couch and nudging DH off his foamy on the floor









Tomorrow I have to be at work at an ungodly hour in order to give a presentation starting at 8, and I'm really not looking forward to that. It'll mean I have to leave the house around 7, which is when I normally get up.


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## barcelona (May 1, 2006)

Helen, hilarious!!!







How's the kitchen coming along? And I'm sorry to hear about the Thomas obsession to bear again. Hang in there!









We have let Finley watch Mary Poppins (just musical numbers, not the whole thing) in "emergency" times, when I have been sick and DH exhausted, and we just need that little break. He is Ob.Sessed. We have hid it, though, and he has seemingly forgotten about it, which is nice. I'm going to look into some ST videos, though, for those emergency times.

Jaymi, so great and true about Isa being exposed to ASL with the Deaf community. Finley gets exposed when my Deaf friends come over or we meet up with them. I'm not proud to say we haven't been to many events, b/c most of them at night, and I'm just unavailable and putting Finley to bed at night. Finley probably has about 100 signs now (I haven't counted in awhile...when he was a year, it was at about 50, and he seems to sign something new every day). He probably has about 100 "words" , but really just sounds that we know mean certain things, but they're definite. But most of them come out as "ba" "da" and variations. It's amazing how many word start with these letters. Only a few of his words are understandable to people outside of us.

Rowan is adorable in her Chinese New Year outfit!!! I love it! And hooray spughy for a good night's sleep! And yuck for an early day tomorrow









I am feeling MUCH better today, thanks to DH being home and taking much care of Finley and me being able to rest and sleep more than usual. I've been downing the vitamins and Emergen-C. I am hoping tomorrow will be my back-to-me day. This afternoon, I'm going into the city for my Hep. B update appointment. Not looking forward to it (massive amounts of blood work), but am glad to get it done and calm my worries, etc, etc, and know I've done my duties for the year. After I recover from this bout of bronchial yuck and after my today's appointment, I'm going to look into some of the homeopathic actions you all suggested and get my body back in balance. Cause it has just been ridiculous.

I hope everyone is having a lovely day.

A moment for a bit of shameless self-promotion: if any of you know anyone in the NYC area, or Orlando area, or LA area, could you kindly send them my website: hillarybaack.com, which is introducing my brand new, fledgling photography business.







:

(And if anyone has any suggestions or problems with the site, let me know. It's a work in progress. SoulJourney, see? I edited it a bit...thanks for your help. FYI, i have been studying up on my f-stops and shutterspeeds and have been playing around with it, so I'm feeling more comfortable with that. Now, i have to figure out this white-balance/color thing. I'm confused! If only we lived nearby!)

Love to Everyone!!!


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## *Amy* (Jun 16, 2004)

Barcelona, I'm glad you've been feeling a little better the past few days. And I will totally pass your website on to my NYC friends!! That is awesome!!

Spughy - shut up. I hate you!! (OK, really I am happy for you and just feeling extreme envy.)

Helen, I love it! That reminds me of Brynn pulling up her Cabbage Patch Kid's shirt, seeing her belly button (which is an outie that looks very much like a nipple), and saying "MILK!" and trying to nurse from it.









Susannah, I probably have about 20 oz of milk on an average day, so I figure if that were the issue, we'd see a change pretty quickly. I'm still not sure though. Wheat, here, too. I think without dairy and wheat, I would starve.

Hey, I posted a few new videos on the blog! A dancing queen, she is.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

I forgot to update you that Skye had a word for breastfeeding, didn't I??? Ha, I can't wait until I get grandchildren (don't care which kid, the end result will be the same.) I'll be the doddery old woman in the restaurant with blue rinse hair and too much purple, shouting at her daughter "well, YOU were breastfed! Whenever you were hungry, you stood up and shouted BOOBIES!!!"

We had a nice quiet family day today. Skye spent two hours sitting in a puddle watching piglets, Alex spent two hours sat on a haybale cuddling baby chicks and Isaac spent two hours riding tractors round the outside of the farm building making tractor noises at the top of his voice. WTH made me think a big family was a good idea?


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Amy** 
Spughy - shut up. I hate you!! (OK, really I am happy for you and just feeling extreme envy.)

Sorry dude. But remember - she's doing this awesome sleeping ON THE FRICKIN' COUCH!!!! Which means that we basically can't talk after she goes to bed. Or watch TV. Or do anything that involves noises over .02 decibels. A bit limiting, that. I SO want a bigger place, where our kitchen isn't directly kind of IN the living room.

WHEN will my DH finish his thesis????? (anyone want to place bets? I'm going for "the night before his defense" at this point. Sigh. It's been "almost done" for like a month now.)


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## flyingspaghettimama (Dec 18, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Amy** 
So here's a random thought for y'all (especially the non-sleeping Mamas): I was reading the Dr. Sears Baby Book, I think it was the chapter on sleep, and it mentions some medical reasons why babies may be frequent night wakers. One suggestion is a food allergy, which could cause restlessness and/or intestinal discomfort. Brynn doesn't have any food allergies that I have been able to detect, but I am wondering if it might be woth it to go off milk (me; she doesn't drink it yet anyway) for a few weeks and see what happens. It probably wouldn't change anything, but I do remember one of the times when we were in Texas, I didn't have milk for like 3 days, and it was one of the times that I noticed she slept so much better. So...I dunno. Any thoughts? FWIW, she has also always had very green mucousy poo that smells VERY strange (like vinegar?), and I've always wondered if it might be a food allergy. But never really did anything about it, cause I'm lazy like that. .

Dr Sears is very cool and all that, but I'm a pretty firm believer that _most_ kids will not sleep through the night on their own until after 18-24 months, and even if then. There are just too many developmental and physical variables going on. I personally believe nightweaning is the primary helpmeet for the sleeping through the night, or the children who've learned to sleep in another room from an earlier age (lucky Spughy). And even then - what happens during teething and illness? And the individual personalities - I know I have kids who go-go-go and they have a very hard time going to sleep if there is the outside, most remote possibility that SOMETHING fun might be going on, somewhere in the world. We have to really work on wind-down and no fun crazy stuff for the hour right before bed (that's right, we sit them in the dark closet and tell them, no singing! no laughing! no talking!).

Sure, if a three year old constantly nightwaking, it's a problem, but I don't think it's pathological (har, esp for mom) until after 2- 2.5. I mean, think - illness, teething, walking, talking, plus all the crazy mental stuff they get going on - it's a lot!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
I'm a bad mama- I never bothered teaching her to sign. I've noticed she does the open-close hand thing instinctively for "give me that there thing right now" though.
And our obsession is Thomas the Tank Engine. AGAIN







. After having two boys, I thought I'd escape spending the next two years freezing my nipples off at "A Day out with Thomas" and memorising every single one of those dastardly videos. How wrong could I be?







I tell you, mamas, I don't know if I have the strength for this. OTOH, she saw a little mermaid doll in the toyshop yesterday, pulled her bikini top off and said BOOBIE in a loud tone of voice









That. Is hilarous.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spughy* 
Sorry dude. But remember - she's doing this awesome sleeping ON THE FRICKIN' COUCH!!!! Which means that we basically can't talk after she goes to bed. Or watch TV. Or do anything that involves noises over .02 decibels. A bit limiting, that. I SO want a bigger place, where our kitchen isn't directly kind of IN the living room.

I hear you. I saw your place, it's about like ours - except yours is bigger! We are lucky in that the bedrooms are upstairs from the kitchen/dining/living room, but it's hard to work and play in such a small space. I am totally freaking out thinking about how we will cope when he gets to the running phase at two, as we don't have enough money to move up in Seattle. I guess spend a lot more time outdoors.

I still don't know what to do about bedrooms though. Does anyone here have a much-older sibling prepping to share with the toddler? Right now he sleeps with us, all of his toys are on the main floor (he doesn't have many), and his clothes are in our closet. We have one other bedroom on the top floor (daughter's); we have one more bedroom on the bottom floor. I don't feel like it's very safe though, because it's so far away from us on the third, and it's next to a sliding glass door. Houses get broken into frequently on the first floor here through the doors. I always wanted my daughter to be able to have her own room (as I never did, growing up) but I don't quite know what to do here. The age difference is big, and I'm sure she'll want friend time without a little brother. I don't mind him sleeping with us until he's around three, but then I'd like him to have his own bed and space.

Did anyone here share with a sibling for a long time? Did you hate it as much as I did (my sister was 9 years younger though)?

In much other news, I'm starting the South Beach Diet today, phase one. My sugar cravings are way out of control. Like, I can't stop eating it. And I keep gaining weight. Wait...do ya think the two are related?









Also, I loved Rowan's Chinese NY outfit. Too cute.


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

so today is the first time since nyny was 6 weeks old that ive weighed her. she is so long and thin now..i expected her to be around 26 lbs and she is 22







:.. i feel like a failure all over again! they say by a year a bf baby should be 3 times birth weight.. she was 10lbs at birth so should be at least 30 lbs..my son is still like 25 [email protected] 4 years old..everyone gasps when i tell them he is 4..
'hes sooo small..is he ok?"
. if only they could get fatter and me thinner. its so unfair!


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## flyingspaghettimama (Dec 18, 2001)

MamaFern, we are in the same petite boat. FSB went from 95th percentile to 35th in weight (he's still at 95-100th in height). He's gained 3 lbs in the past five months. He was weighed last at 14 months and he was 23-24 lbs too, and was born at 9 lbs.

I think that three times thing must be bogus. Our doc wasn't worried at all (once she saw my husband).


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

ngaio is meauring 33 inches long..im not even sure what that is on the growth charts..normal? tall? she seems very tall to me.

ETA: by some random growth chart calculator..

she is At 15 months:
your child is 22 pounds, and that is *at the 33th percentile* for weight.
your child is 33 inches, and that is *at the 97th percentile* for height.


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## flyingspaghettimama (Dec 18, 2001)

Ooh, Fern, sounds like our children are a match made in heaven!


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## *Amy* (Jun 16, 2004)

Brynn is about 31.5 inches and probably around 21 pounds, so close to Ngaio. She's a little beanpole!


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## Gunter (May 5, 2005)

we watch way too much signing times at our house, too. no tv but we watch it on the laptop usually every other day. ezra points at any computer she sees in public and frantically looks up at me doing the signs for "signing time". i just tell her, that computer doesn't have what you are looking for, i promise. but, she doesn't believe me, of course.

so, yeah, ezra is definitely skinny. i doubt she weighs 18 pounds. we don't take her to the doctor so i don't know here exact weight. she is tall and lean like her dad. i try not to worry about it. she was 5 lbs at birth, 3 weeks before my edd. totally healthy and happy then and now, as far as i can tell.


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

ive never even heard of signing times.. im missing out!
ngaio signs quite a bit.. its nice but we dont work too hard on it.
gunter, elwynn was 16 lbs at a year.. but he was a bit bigger at birth. 5 lbs sounds sooo tiny! *sigh*


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Fern, the 3x birth weight rule is for bottlefed babies, not breastfed. The curves start changing drastically at around the 4 month mark, and so far there's no charts available for families who follow current "best practice"- breastfeeding 2years, solids from 6 mo onwards, etc.- to refer to.
Skye's only 20lbs though, and she's on the 20th centile for height as well. I'd be worried, if I didn't see so many older toddlers around who aren't any taller than her- it's just a pain trying to get trousers to fit her.


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## *Amy* (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flyingspaghettimama* 
Dr Sears is very cool and all that, but I'm a pretty firm believer that _most_ kids will not sleep through the night on their own until after 18-24 months, and even if then. There are just too many developmental and physical variables going on......Sure, if a three year old constantly nightwaking, it's a problem, but I don't think it's pathological (har, esp for mom) until after 2- 2.5. I mean, think - illness, teething, walking, talking, plus all the crazy mental stuff they get going on - it's a lot!

Yes, perhaps it is totally normal for a child of this age to wake 2-3 times per night for nursing, comfort, or whatever. What I am dealing with here though is a child who is waking every 45-90 minutes throughout the night and insisting on nursing. When she does sleep, she has to sleep ON ME, which makes it basically impossible for me to sleep comfortably. She is so restless that she wakes if I so much as accidentally move her foot. And when she wakes, it's not like she just drowsily tries to find the breast; she whines, she cries, she howls. At 14 months, I can count the number of times on one hand that Brynn has slept longer than 4 hours. So actually, it _is_ a problem - for us, anyway. She is tired and cranky throughout the day, and her naps are getting worse as well. And I'm at the end of my rope.

And this is not strictly developmental or related to milestones; she's not getting any teeth right now, she's not sick, we haven't traveled in over a month, etc. It's just the f*cking horrendous habit that we've been in since she was about 4 months old, and it's about to break me. Last night she slept *a total of 2 hours* between 9:00pm and 2:00am, and then woke sporadically until we got up at 7:00.

I can no longer gracefully tolerate being a human pacifier, and my resentment level seems to increase just about daily. But the problem is, there are no easy answers. Even if I didn't think CIO was bad parenting, I don't think it would work for this child, who does not give up.

So here I am, on the verge of a total fucking meltdown, with no solution in sight.


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

oh amy!









what can i say...... i have been there.but now, looking back on it i miss those days with elwynn SO MUCH. crazy, huh.. but it really does in the big scheme of things go by So fast ( i always hated when people said "cherish these moments because they are gone in no time" yadayada"..but its so true..). im so happy if i get a 30 second snuggle from him durring the day and now when he snugles up ino bed with us (less and less every week) my heart flutters.. soon i know that he will be "too big". maybe thats why i tollerate the same kind of thing from ngaio but with a bit more gracefulness this time around... ngaio nurses most of the night every nnight. once in a blue moon she will sleep an hour or two between..but mostly its just my boob in her mouth all night long.. i wake up and my back is seized up and im tired.. really tired some mornings.. i guess because i so want more babies but i dont know if i will have them im trying just to enjoy every second, even if its not very enjoyable.
i know this doesnt really pertain to you, but i wanted to share my experience with it. and not to say that i dont bitch and complain some days r feel totally worn out of crazy with the need for sleep and space..
it will get better.. this too shall pass!


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## flyingspaghettimama (Dec 18, 2001)

Amy, if I were you (don't flame me) I'd nightwean if you feel sure she's not sick or teething and getting enough calories in the day. She sounds pretty verbal - does she understand the difference between night and day, or could she learn? That was my developmental marker for readiness.

This was the program I used:
http://www.drjaygordon.com/development/ap/sleep.asp
I have two friends who used this program just recently (on my recc) with their rather wakeable, crying children and they are all sleeping better now, but the first three or four nights are LONG and rough. There is crying, but you're with them, holding and rocking, so it's not CIO (in my book). If you want, you can PM me if you want extra details.

My babe wakes every two hours or so, but generally goes back to sleep immediately with nursing. So I can last it out a few more months here.


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## barcelona (May 1, 2006)

oh, amy!








i'm so sorry you're having such a tough time. lack of sleep can be seriously painful. i wish i knew what to say, or had an idea for a solution, but i don't...
are you guys still starting the night off where she sleeps in the pack in play?
wish i could give you an IRL hug and drink a cup of tea with you. we're here for you (though we might not have the most inspiring words of wisdom). and here, i recall spiritmomma's lovely meditation. would this help? maybe you could try cutting milk out and see what happens?
wish i could help!

oh, and thank you for sending my site to your NYC friends!

(btw, wouldn't that be nice if we all could drink tea--or coffee--your beverage of choice, of course--together IRL)

a small udpate from me is that i went to the hep.b. dr yesterday, and he reassured me that he is pretty sure these sick bouts are not a sign of a relapse, so i'm thrilled about that. yay! they took ten big vials of blood, my favorite, and i scheduled an ultrasound to check out my liver, and then hopefully all will be a-okay and i can relax about that for a year. and in the meantime, get my body back together in other ways







i'm still not great, today, healthwise, but i'm much better.

more soon!

xo


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## Phoenix_Rising (Jun 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
I'm a bad mama- I never bothered teaching her to sign.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *spughy* 
Oh and I'm a bad mom who never taught her kid signs either.

All right ladies, enough of this "bad mom" stuff!!!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flyingspaghettimama* 
Did anyone here share with a sibling for a long time? Did you hate it as much as I did (my sister was 9 years younger though)?

My sister is 5 years younger than I am and I shared a room with her until I was nearly 18. I hated it! She was nosy nosy nosy - I couldn't carry on a phone conversation without her coming in to lister. At the same time there was no other viable option; my parents could not afford a larger house.

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Amy** 
Yes, perhaps it is totally normal for a child of this age to wake 2-3 times per night for nursing, comfort, or whatever. What I am dealing with here though is a child who is waking every 45-90 minutes throughout the night and insisting on nursing. When she does sleep, she has to sleep ON ME, which makes it basically impossible for me to sleep comfortably. She is so restless that she wakes if I so much as accidentally move her foot. And when she wakes, it's not like she just drowsily tries to find the breast; she whines, she cries, she howls. At 14 months, I can count the number of times on one hand that Brynn has slept longer than 4 hours. So actually, it _is_ a problem - for us, anyway. She is tired and cranky throughout the day, and her naps are getting worse as well. And I'm at the end of my rope.

And this is not strictly developmental or related to milestones; she's not getting any teeth right now, she's not sick, we haven't traveled in over a month, etc. It's just the f*cking horrendous habit that we've been in since she was about 4 months old, and it's about to break me. Last night she slept *a total of 2 hours* between 9:00pm and 2:00am, and then woke sporadically until we got up at 7:00.

I can no longer gracefully tolerate being a human pacifier, and my resentment level seems to increase just about daily. But the problem is, there are no easy answers. Even if I didn't think CIO was bad parenting, I don't think it would work for this child, who does not give up.

So here I am, on the verge of a total fucking meltdown, with no solution in sight.

Amy -








KeaganRae also has nighttime sleeping issues. He has probably slept 4 hours in a row about 6 or 7 times. It is hard beyond words. I have frequently wondered how long I will last until night weaning. For me it comes down to that I am scared if I nightwean he will no longer nurse during the day, and I am not willing to give that up at this point. It sounds like you really need some mommy time. Feel free to PM me if you like.


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## Queen of Cups (Aug 29, 2003)

I missed the room-sharing conversation.

My sister and I are 20 months apart (I'm older) and we shared a room till I was 10 and she was 8. Then we moved to a new house and our rooms were across the hall from each other. Honestly, we usually still slept together! All through high school! We were really good friends and it was like a sleepover every night. I had a queen sized bed and she had bunkbeds, and one of us would cross the hall at some point most nights. We ended up choosing the same college and were roommates one year. And, she lives with DH and I, and has for the past three years while getting her Masters degree (though, obviously, she has her own room!). She's now looking for a job and getting ready to move out, but neither of us regret room or house-sharing at all. Honestly, I chalk up us being close to two things: (1) being less than two years apart and both girls and (2) my parent's practicing attachment parenting. We co-slept with our parents when we were little, and we were always comfortable sharing a room.

DH thought it was truly cruel to make siblings share rooms, and its taken me years of convincing him that's not so. But he has one sister who's 5 years younger so he never shared a room his whole life till we got married - he even had a single all four years of college.


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Oh, Amy - I'm so sorry.







. I wish I could be more helpful. Maybe now that Brynn's older, some of the NCSS for Toddlers stuff would work? I know the baby version didn't work well but maybe the toddler one would be better... I think if I were in your situation, I would try to nightwean. I'm not saying you should - I think I would feel really crappy about it, but at a certain point my desire to fix the situation would make me at least give it a decent shot. I don't know. I just feel so horrible for you. I know how bad it can be when you don't get any sleep and to go through that EVERY night - ugh.

I managed to get through my presentation this morning ok so that's done and over with, yay. Tonight I have to go out for dinner with the team which is kind of bad because I left this morning before Rowan woke up and I'll only see her for an hour or two at home this evening before I have to leave again. But it's kind of good too because even though it's work-related, it still feels a bit like a night out.


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## Queen of Cups (Aug 29, 2003)

Amy - I'm so sorry you're having such a tough time! One thing that helped immensely with Killy was to not let him nap at all after 2:30pm. AT ALL! He sleeps so much better at night when we stick to that rule. He's 33 months and still very rarely sleeps through the night, but he nightweaned while I was pregnant with Ellie and that helped a lot. We usually keep a sippy cup full of water by his bed, though, because he wakes up thirsty. But, he comes and bangs on our door and David puts him back to bed - usually once or twice a night still. But, seriously, if he naps till 4pm, he won't fall asleep till after 11pm and wakes up a million times. I don't know what kind of a napping schedule Brynn in on, but some kids just don't need as much sleep as others, and the sleep-time during the day can directly reduce the sleep-time at night. Just another piece of the puzzle to ponder!

I'm working on gently night-weaning Ellie. To be honest, I don't know a single person who's happy night-nursing a two year old, and I don't want to ever be in the position where I resent nursing my kids. When she wakes up, I can often get her back to sleep by patting her back (she starts off in the crib). If she's really upset, I'll bring her to bed and cuddle her, and only if she's really, really awake and upset will I nurse her. So, I'd say a few nights a week she goes all night without nursing, and by the time she's two we won't do any night-nursing.

Oh, and night-weaning doesn't necessarily mean that a child will wean earlier. Killy still nurses enthusiastically anywhere from 1-6 times a day, and he'll be three in May.


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## flyingspaghettimama (Dec 18, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Queen of Cups* 

Oh, and night-weaning doesn't necessarily mean that a child will wean earlier. Killy still nurses enthusiastically anywhere from 1-6 times a day, and he'll be three in May.

I agree, totally...it's why I nightweaned my eldest - to save our BFing and cosleeping arrangement. They really look forward to that morning nurse!


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Amy








I think you have a choice between cosleeping and night-weaning, sleeping apart but nursing or doing nothing, really. I can't see another so convenient option.
What I wonder, though, is how much of her bedtime routine she recognises as "now it's time for bed." Have you told her it's bedtime now, asked her to go get her jamies, etc? How does she respond? That might give you an indication of how she feels about sleep, and also, as FSM says, how clear her differences between night and day are.


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## Queen of Cups (Aug 29, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flyingspaghettimama* 
I agree, totally...it's why I nightweaned my eldest - to save our BFing and cosleeping arrangement. They really look forward to that morning nurse!

For a long time, the fist thing Killy would say when he woke up every morning was "MILK!" Literally the second his eyes opened he would ask for milk! Now, however, he's become a surly teenager in disposition when he wakes up. He hides under the covers, tells me he needs to sleep, and when I tell him he needs to go potty he tells me he did it yesterday.







But, it still works to bribe him out of bed and onto the potty and into his clothes with the promise of mommy-milk once he's downstairs.


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

i night weened elwynn by putting him to sleep in his own bed, in his own room. i would sit next to him and rubbing his back and we has a special nigh ttime cd we listened t oevery night..i would do this till he slept. he really did sleep a LOT better and after and a week or so he started to sleep with us again, but when he woke i would hold his hand and snuggle him and he was fine. But he was 2 and a few months old.. so he understaood way more than ngaio does now at 15 months..


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## spiritmomma (Aug 29, 2005)

*amy*







: I so totally hear you on the resentment thing. It's not good for anyone... It sucks. It sucks the life out of you and the joy out of Brynn. I agree that nightweaning is an attractive option. And like many other mamas have said, this doesn't mean she will be weaned during the day. I also like the Jay Gordon method. It seems very gentle and compassionate, yet firm. Just the right recipe. So sorry about the sleepiness and all the yucky feelings that come with that. Just know other people have been through it (or are going through it) too. We love you!

As for the bit about sharing rooms, my sister and I shared a room until I was about 14. She is 8 years younger than I am. We got along fine, I never even questioned it. In fact when my parents offered me my own special room when I was 9, I was excited. They cut a hole in the house (yes, through the brick and everything) to make me a window. I picked out my own bed spread and decor... and slept upstairs with my sister and brother. (Brother is 2 years younger than I). I don't think there is anything "cruel" about sharing a room. I rather enjoyed it. I also live in a neighborhood that was built around a Catholic parish. It is a two bedroom bungalow style home built in the late 20's like all the houses around it. These 2 bedroom homes held GIANT catholic families comfortably with 1 bedroom for the parents and the second for ALL THE KIDS. Not to mention the one bathroom.







I think room sharing, if approached as a gift instead of a curse, can be really wonderful for family bonding. That's my 2 cents!


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Yep: that's the way we look at it. We were talking about a 4 bedroom house yesterday, and my 8yo declared that that was a bedroom for me, one for dad, one for Skye and one for him and Isaac







. They drive each other nuts, but in a good way.
It's a treat for them to have Skye sharing their room on holiday. Doesn't happen often though...


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

On the room-sharing thing... I shared a room with my sisters until I was about 9. I don't recall minding much but we kept each other awake at night and my next youngest sister and I had a tendency to torment my younger sister. And when we got bunkbeds, we sort of abused them a bit, plus I distinctly remember barfing once from the top bunk, which must have been a real treat for my mom. We were a handful, I think...







Everything got much more peaceful in the house at night when we got our own rooms. (There was a 2 year spacing, more or less, between all of us (ie when I was 9, my sisters were 7 and 5).

On a totally different topic, I had the best laugh yesterday that I've had in a long time. We were doing a webconference at work yesterday with a conference phone call at the same time. (Bear in mind that I work for a Very Large Very Serious Company.) We broke for lunch but the phone line stayed open, and one guy was obviously on a cell or a phone with a headset, but forgot to hit the mute button... I dialed back in 10 minutes before we were due to start and heard a weird "ssshk shhhk shssk" sound and thought "that sounds like someone brushing their teeth" then I thought "naah, must be just static or something" but then I heard a distinct spit, then gargling!!!! I just cracked up. I mean, you hear about that happening, but always it's the sort of urban-legend-friend-of-a-friend sort thing... but it really happened! And nobody else on the call (there were probably 4 or 5 people online at the time) said anything - probably because they were like me and laughing so hard they wouldn't have been able to say anything. And the kicker is - I missed the best part, where the guy went to the bathroom and you could hear his zipper go down, the peeing, the flushing - everything. One of the other people on the call was instant-messaging the details to someone in the meeting room downstair. HILARIOUS. I'm still giggling.


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## flyingspaghettimama (Dec 18, 2001)

Spughy, that is hilarious. Sometimes you see that happening on the news too - people not knowing that they're ON yet. I can't believe he wouldn't check before he peed though...at least he didn't have _other_ business to attend to, if you know what I mean...

Amy, so - what's up? I do know that I have two friends with children who do/did the same thing (45-1 hour wakeups), and it was very, very hard on them physically and emotionally. Every time I'd see them, they were totally tired and drained, but the nightweaning worked for both of them (at ages 15 mos and almost 24 mos). It's like what Jay Gordon says - if you knew everytime you woke up you'd get a backrub and a big yummy milkshake from your partner, would you wanna give that up? If you would ever like to correspond with them by email, let me know.

We had a GREAT sleeping night last night, but he also took no naps yesterday (!), which I DO NOT plan on being a habit. I can usually coax him down into two, although I think he would normally just need one. But boy did he sleep. I think he woke up twice all night between 8 and 7 am. I'd rather keep the napping in the day - otherwise my house just becomes a wreck, which it most certainly was yesterday.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

OK. I'm not dealing with life, physically or emotionally and my brain is trying to just check out. I have four kitchen cabinets to build and install by the end of the weekend, three children to parent, etc. and I just haven't got the luxury of falling apart right now. I have a referral for counselling but it's going to take a while to come through. Please, will someone tell me what to do?

I just cried for half an hour straight when I read in the back of Snow Patrol's latest album "mums and dads of the world, be patient with your children." I am SUCH a headcase right now.


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## flyingspaghettimama (Dec 18, 2001)

Can you drop the cabinets? Will something bad happen if you don't put them in?


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Kinda OT but I love the new Snow Patrol CD.
Amy I so hope that you find some way to get her to sleep better.








Helen I so hope you find some way to get some peace.








Don't throw things at me but my 13 day old baby sleeps 4-6 hour stretches at night.


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DreamsInDigital* 
Don't throw things at me but my 13 day old baby sleeps 4-6 hour stretches at night.

Mine did that too. Only it was a bad thing, because she wasn't getting enough milk







Also, she stopped the good sleeping at around 5 months and is only just - maybe - starting to sleep really well again. So I don't feel like throwing things at you, but Amy might









Helen - can you take an hour for yourself today? Just sit, read a book, knit - screw the cabinets. Really, what WILL happen if you don't attend to them?







anyway. I wish I was there and could come over and play with your kids for you. Or put your cabinets up. But I don't think you'd want that. I'd be better with the kids. My DH could do your cabinets though, he's good at that sort of thing.


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

helen.. i wish there was a way we could help.

my news.. im going to be 26 in a few days.. its so sad. i feel so old.. but not. im not old!. im a young mom of 2 kiddos..
.i need to do smething to make me feel young again.. ive decided to get my tattoos as a birthday gift for myself. im going to get ferns tattooed on my collarbones, kinda celtic like but not really.. *great at explaining things* as well as ferns, timothy grss, sage and ngaio all plant in black with some colour) on my forearm. tim is thinking of getting a matching tattoo as well.. im really excited!


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Fern, that sounds so cool!!! I always wanted a tattoo but I can't think of anything particularly interesting to get, but now that you described yours, I think I'll get a rowan leaf! That would be cool!

Are tattoos ok when you're bf'ing?

BTW - I'm coming over to Vanc next weekend (March 3) Wanna meet up?


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spughy* 
Fern, that sounds so cool!!! I always wanted a tattoo but I can't think of anything particularly interesting to get, but now that you described yours, I think I'll get a rowan leaf! That would be cool!

Are tattoos ok when you're bf'ing?

BTW - I'm coming over to Vanc next weekend (March 3) Wanna meet up?

yes!!!!!!!!


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## flyingspaghettimama (Dec 18, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DreamsInDigital* 
Don't throw things at me but my 13 day old baby sleeps 4-6 hour stretches at night.

Yeah, mine did that too until about four months old. It all goes to hell at four months, I figure.

How does your 15 month old sleep, DiD?


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## *Amy* (Jun 16, 2004)

Hi all. I've returned from the brink of insanity. Or suicide.









Thanks to *everyone* for the support, thoughts, ideas, and overall putting up with me once again!!! Seriously, this has been the HARDEST part of being a parent for me, hands down. So I am really grateful to have a place to come to and vent and fall apart as needed.

So FSM, I looked at that article and it seemed totally reasonable, and I really like his approach to the whole topic. So thanks! One thing I definitely don't think would work for us, though, is trying to night wean her while she's in bed with us. Also, I'm not totally opposed to the idea of night weaning, but I think the major hurdle for her is simply being in the same bed as me. She's SOOO much more restless and fussy when she's in our bed vs when she is in the PnP by herself.

DH and I had a loooooooong talk about it last night and we came up with a new plan, which is pretty much the same as Phase Two (from a few weeks ago), but tweaked a bit. She still goes into her own bed pretty easily after she's nursed at bedtime, so we are going to continue to do that. For the past several weeks, she has awoken (very predictably) 2 hours from the time we put her down. She what we are going to do is say that for the next week, if she wakes up anytime before 2.5 hours after we've put her to bed, we are going to gently but firmly tell her that she has to go back to sleep. I won't pick her up, but I will rub her back, sing to her, talk to her, etc. Then, the next time she wakes up (so, presumably it will have been longer than 2.5 hours since bedtime), I will pick her up right away - before she starts crying - and take her into her room and nurse her in the rocking chair, on both breasts. Then, basically repeat the procedure over again as many times as necessary during the night. We did decide though that after 5:30am or so, she can come back to bed with us and nurse and wallow all over me until we get out of bed. In seven days, we'll stretch it to 3 hours, and then 7 days after that, we'll go to 4. I'm happy to stop there, and let her nurse once or twice during the night, so if we make it to that point, I will be totally elated.

We started the new plan last night and she actually did pretty well. She cried off and on for about 10 minutes at her first waking, but then didn't cry when I put her back into her bed after the first time I nursed her. So, I think she's getting it. And she may not like it, but DH and I both feel like this is the step that we need to take and that she needs to learn to sleep for longer blocks. It's not good for any of us to be this sleep deprived. I will say, after a night of relatively decent sleep, I am a MUCH better mama today.
So I think the overall goal for us is actually going to be to continue the transition to her own sleeping space more than night weaning.

Oh, and as for naps, FSM, I've learned over time that her nap schedule doesn't affect her sleep too terribly much. She's pretty predictable about napping these days too; it's usually between 1:00 and 3:00pm, and even if she sleeps until 5:00 or 5:30, she's *always* ready for bed around 9:00. And we definitely do a bedtime routine and have been for over a month, which she obviously enjoys. Every night around 7:30 she asks to go upstairs and put her jammies on, so we do that and basically just play in her room and read for about an hour before she gets wound down. So we're definitley going to keep doing that.

Overall I think I am feeling a sense of resolve more than hope. We just have to work this out.

Anyway, Helen, sorry you are feeling so overwhelmed right now. Don't do the cabinets!

Fern, PUH-LEASE!! You are not old. In fact, I might be one of the oldest ones in our DDC, so you are making *me* feel old at 33 (34 in June!). Your tattoo sounds pretty darn cool though!!

I will add more later on. I'm going to go take a nap while Brynn is taking hers!


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Amy** 
Fern, PUH-LEASE!! You are not old. In fact, I might be one of the oldest ones in our DDC, so you are making *me* feel old at 33 (34 in June!).


I'm going to be 36 this year (in October) so I don't want to hear any more about feeling old out of you young whippersnappers!!!









Amy, I haven't been keeping up hundred-percent with your sleep struggles, so I don't know if you've tried having your DH take charge at night, but for me that has been really helpful at times when I've had trouble with Ella sleeping. (She generally sleeps pretty well, but sometimes I have trouble actually getting her to sleep. Once she's asleep generally there's not much problem with nightwaking unless she's teething or something.







: ) Anyway, DH will put her in the Kozy on his chest and sit in the glider with her and turn out all the lights and put on a specific CD that they listen to at sleep time, and rock her to sleep. She conks out really fast that way, and doesn't seem to miss nursing. I couldn't put her to sleep that way though, if she's that near my chest she is in the habit of nursing! The Kozy is basically a seatbelt, since he's afraid he will drop her when he inevitable falls asleep.

I have been having sleeping struggles of a different sort lately--namely, I have developed a serious Grey's Anatomy addiction. I had always watched bits of it intermittently, enough to have a general sense of the gist of what was going on, but never enough to really get into it. Well, the last few episodes I'd watched, but I missed one and all my watching was kind of interrupted by motherhood IYKWIM, but then I discovered that you can watch streaming online at abc.com!!! So I rewatched the last four episodes in their entirety, and rented the DVD's of the whole thing since the beginning, up to the beginning of the current season which is not yet out on DVD. So I am in the middle of Season 2. DH has also gotten into it, so we are both staying up waaaay too late after Ella has gone to sleep watching it. It's really funny because we're on different episodes, he's just finished Season 1, so we both are sitting across the kitchen table from each other with our individual laptops (he just bought a new one for work) with headphones on watching the DVD's! Last night he put Ella to sleep for me because she was just on the boob forever comfort nursing (she wasn't thirsty, I offered her water and goat milk too which she'll always take happily if she's wanting more milk and isn't getting it) and I was getting sore, so he took her and they fell asleep, and I stayed up for four hours watching Grey's Anatomy!! We're not really big TV watchers, we don't have any cable or sattelite and weeks can go by without us ever turning on our TV. But when we get into a show, we can get hooked!! (Which is probably why we try not to get too into TV, since we'd be total couch potatoes, as opposed to infrequent and intermittent couch potatoes.)


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## flyingspaghettimama (Dec 18, 2001)

Yeah, Amy, you have to go with what works for you. I personally think the main ingredient in parenting is consistency from the child's perspective. And if cosleeping isn't your gig, then it ain't...but once I nightweaned, my kid (and friends') really didn't wake up at night/thrash/fuss anymore in the bed and slept very soundly. I think your plan sounds rather ambitious, but you know, I am an extremely impatient and lazy person. There's no way I could do anything that would require me to get up out of bed. I found it easier to nightwean when able to hold the child and tell them "milk in the morning, milk went night-night." They cry and are sad for about three nights, but they're never alone or scared. Seriously. I haven't heard of it taking any longer. So, if you are ever ready to do CIO, try it first. But yes, they do have to understand the difference between morning and night, and have some concept of "later."

I hope your plan works!


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

OK. I'm calmer. What triggered today's outburst was the combination of ringing my GP to ask them to cancel my AN care because I got a negative HPT, plus a couple of baby vests I bought on TP literally hours before I started spotting arrived. Plus the boys. Plus Skye is no longer the cute walking baby who holds my little finger and co-operatively moves in the direction I want, she's now the stroppy adolescent who runs speedily in the opposite direction as fast as her legs can carry her until she is rugby tackled to the floor by one of her accomplices, realising that this latest desperate bid for freedom is doomed to failure.
Fern, I know what you mean about aging. I think the biggest pitfall with starting a family young is that every birthday that goes by, the gap between you and the people who did it the "traditional" way around- of house, mortgage, big white wedding, two cars, life insurance, ski-ing in the winter and Greek villa in the summer- gets that bit wider. I wouldn't change it though, but I'll admit to dreading 30, and I have a whole 56 days to go. The tatts sound gorgeous though.


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## flyingspaghettimama (Dec 18, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
OK. I'm calmer. What triggered today's outburst was the combination of ringing my GP to ask them to cancel my AN care because I got a negative HPT, plus a couple of baby vests I bought on TP literally hours before I started spotting arrived. Plus the boys. Plus Skye is no longer the cute walking baby who holds my little finger and co-operatively moves in the direction I want, she's now the stroppy adolescent who runs speedily in the opposite direction as fast as her legs can carry her until she is rugby tackled to the floor by one of her accomplices, realising that this latest desperate bid for freedom is doomed to failure.
Fern, I know what you mean about aging. I think the biggest pitfall with starting a family young is that every birthday that goes by, the gap between you and the people who did it the "traditional" way around- of house, mortgage, big white wedding, two cars, life insurance, ski-ing in the winter and Greek villa in the summer- gets that bit wider. I wouldn't change it though, but I'll admit to dreading 30, and I have a whole 56 days to go. The tatts sound gorgeous though.

That really, really sucks about the baby clothing - but it's very interesting that the baby who was velcro to you is now jetting. How quick they change their tempers! I would definitely delay bathroom cabinetry in your case!









That's very insightful, Flapjack, about the aging, and very true for us here. We see people in their fabulous, big houses here, and they've got kids the same age as us - but they're 45-50. I'm 31, which I don't think is all that young, but in comparison to other mamas in my city... Many women in this city don't start having kids until their forties. I guess it will all pay off in the end, when we can retire young and our kids will be done with college and hopefully having kids of their own for us to spoil! THEN we might be having that greek villa...


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## Phoenix_Rising (Jun 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Amy** 
Hi all. I've returned from the brink of insanity. Or suicide.









I'm glad you've *returned*

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
OK. I'm calmer.

I'm sorry you're having a rough day.








I can empathize with you re: no longer the cute walking baby; now running as fast as possible in the opposite direction, etc.
Keagan's favorite pasttime lately is running toward two large pots in my dining room area that have LARGE ficus plants in them - and then digging his grubby little fingers into the soil and pulling out the peat moss and tossing it all over the dining room. Not so much fun to clean up. Tonight he did this while I was starting on washing the dinner dishes; it took me probably 5 minutes to figure out why he was being so quiet. No, he was not playing with his toys. He was pulling out handfuls of soil and throwing it on the white(ish) carpet. Joy of joys.







: He is finally asleep now on DP's chest for the first time all day. No naps today. Argh!

But oh so cute at the same time


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flyingspaghettimama* 

That's very insightful, Flapjack, about the aging, and very true for us here. We see people in their fabulous, big houses here, and they've got kids the same age as us - but they're 45-50. I'm 31, which I don't think is all that young, but in comparison to other mamas in my city... Many women in this city don't start having kids until their forties. I guess it will all pay off in the end, when we can retire young and our kids will be done with college and hopefully having kids of their own for us to spoil! THEN we might be having that greek villa...

I know what you mean. I feel sort of in the middle. DH and I are both 35. We've both had enough twists and turns in the roads of our educations and careers that we're reasonably well educated and suitable for basically professional jobs, but we're not doctors or lawyers, so we're not the well-off, well-accomplished, higher income professional couple that some of our slightly older friends or relatives are. But we're also not "young parents just starting out in life" either--I won't still be young when my kid(s) are older or grown, and won't be that person who's going back to college at 40 when my kids are teenagers.

The worst part for me about being somewhat older is that I definitely can only count on a few good years left for having babies, so it definitely constrains my options and sort of forces my hand in the fertility department--there's no "wait and see" option if we want to have two or three kids, we need to move at a faster pace than we would otherwise want to if we were younger. (Like if MamaFern decides to wait ten years and then have another baby, that will bring her up to my current age!!! If I wait ten years, I will probably be peri-menopausal.)







:


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

I have to say, I have great respect for those of you who managed to restrain themselves past- say, 21- before starting a family. I did find my pregnancy with Skye much more tiring than with either of the boys, and a lot of this I put down to being those 5 years older. For me, it makes a big difference. Part of me wonders whether the miscarriages are happening because of my age, and because I'm just no longer as super-fertile as I used to be. (Alex was a pill accident- I threw up the morning after the night before, and didn't get the morning after pill, Rowan was a broken condom and Isaac was a correctly inserted cap. It used to be that I just looked at my honey and 10 months later, I had a baby...) In particular, I'm not as fertile whilst nursing as I obviously was before.
FSM, it's not a bathroom- we're installing a whole fitted kitchen ourselves


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
Part of me wonders whether the miscarriages are happening because of my age, and because I'm just no longer as super-fertile as I used to be. (Alex was a pill accident- I threw up the morning after the night before, and didn't get the morning after pill, Rowan was a broken condom and Isaac was a correctly inserted cap. It used to be that I just looked at my honey and 10 months later, I had a baby...) In particular, I'm not as fertile whilst nursing as I obviously was before.

I hope I don't offend you (or anyone else), and feel free to take this with as many grains of salt as you want, but, I very distinctly remember doing a midwifery continuing education unit and reading where the results of some research were rather clear that spacing pregnancies closer than 18 months apart was associated with worse outcomes. (As in, 18 months between the end of one and the beginning of the next.) Part of this is due to nutritional status, in particular folate depletion that naturally occurs with pregnancy, and it takes a while to bounce back/build your folate levels back up. And I don't even think that the study even accounted for the effects of extended breastfeeding, which also sucks the nutritional life out of you!! (Obviously, we all know people even in our own beloved DDC who have had babies/pregnancies closer together and had good outcomes, but I'm talking more on a population level.) Age may be a contributing factor too--obviously our eggies and the chromosomes inside them age too as we get older and risks of miscarriage increase b/c of that. But mostly, my deep down personal suspicion is that maybe your body just needs a bit more time.
(I know for me, I feel like in some ways I have not totally bounced back from being pregnant, and I feel like physically I have a ways to go before I will feel ready to be pregnant again.)


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

I think you're probably right- particularly given that by my standards, Isaac was premature (at 38 weeks) and some of his health conditions are those associated with prematurity. At the same time because I went through three pregnancies within 30 months (conception of first to birth of third) with the boys, I do think that age, perhaps, has a bigger impact on folate depletion than anyone is yet recognising.
I haven't yet made a definite decision about TTC again. I can't face another big gap of 4-5 years though- I know for some people it's the right way to have kids, but it was so hard going back to the baby years this time, the only thing that kept me going was knowing that it is for such a short period and she will grow out of it. I have a fertility awareness class next week, and we're planning on CTA for a while.


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Well, I'm on the upper end of our DDC, age-wise (I'll be 35 this year) and my DH is 32. We were both a bit slow off the mark getting degrees and whatnot, obviously... I also experimented with different careers before settling into IT. So we're still renting, and I'm the only one with an income at the moment, and we have no idea where we're going to be six months from now. We delayed having a baby pretty much as long as we could to get the spacing we wanted between kids (3 years) without me being too old when it came time for #2. (We only plan to have 2 kids.) Now we're sort of regretting not rearranging things so we'd have our own house before we had kids - our current place is NOT working well at all and we're frustrated with our landlord because he only fixes stuff after we nag him for months, the outside of the house is falling apart to the point that the woodpeckers in the neighbourhood prefer our house to the dead trees, our woodstove is barely functional, and half of our current square footage is mostly unusable due to heating issues or being up a ladder that Rowan can't climb. But, we can't do anything about it right now because my single income would qualify us for a mortgage on a bachelor condo in a dodgy section of town, and that's about it.

My point is that age doesn't have much to do with anything if you frittered away your twenties hopping in and out of post-secondary education and spending money when you had it instead of sensibly stashing it away for a down payment on a house. Anyway, self-pity rant over. We suck.


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## flyingspaghettimama (Dec 18, 2001)

Ahhh, but I definitely feel the sleep deprivation more with this toddlerhood than when I was 24 (with my first). The not-sleeping-through-the-night gets to you waaaaay more the older you get, I think. Or at least it did for me. At 24, it was just a transition to partying-all-night to nursing-all-night!


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flyingspaghettimama* 
Ahhh, but I definitely feel the sleep deprivation more with this toddlerhood than when I was 24 (with my first). The not-sleeping-through-the-night gets to you waaaaay more the older you get, I think. Or at least it did for me. At 24, it was just a transition to partying-all-night to nursing-all-night!

Ha ha, I hear you on that!! Even before having a child, I used to wonder what happenned--I remember being in college, and being able to be up really really late and still function well the next day for classes/work/whatever. Now I can't do that type of thing.

OTOH, not to piss anyone off, but my greatest fear about motherhood was sleep deprivation and exhaustion and being overwhelmed. I have really lucked out with Ella, because pretty soon after birth she would sleep six hours at a stretch, and then wake up and nurse, then go back to sleep for two or three hours. And then nap during the day too. So I found that I actually slept better since having her than I did before when I had a stressful job and had to get up early to go to work! She stopped that at around four months and started waking more frequently and then has gone through stretches of better or worse sleep, but overall I can't complain--four months was enough to make up for years of chronic sleep deprivation!! And now most of my sleep deprivation is my own darn fault from staying up too late and screwing around online, watching movies, knitting, doing Sudoku, etc. (note my post times, lol!)


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

i just got the no cry sleep solution from the library and im going to read it. i havnt opened it yet

last night i needed no nursing to sleep. i was just touched ou! so i talked to her about it. that my nursies were tired and sleeping..and she got it!.. for a bit anyways. she cried a bit and we snuggled lots but then she settled.. then when whe was setteled i offered her to nurse and she did for like 5 seconds, turned over and went to sleep.









she did wake to nurse, but went back to sleep a lot faster and always turned away from me when she did.. i feel a lot more rested today

im doing a one day fast and a declutter my house day too..

fun fun.


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## *Amy* (Jun 16, 2004)

Oh Fern, I know how that feels! Good luck with NCSS. Even though it didn't really change things for us, it was really informative and interesting to read! Our sleep has been *so* *much* *better* the past two nights. It's amazing. Hooray for Phase 2.B!!

I hear y'all on the "time keeps on slippin' slippin' slippin'...into the fuuuuuturrrrre" feelings, especially when it comes to having another child. That's one of the main reasons that we are probably not going to have another child; I don't want to be 37/38 when I give birth again! If we did have another child, though, I would prefer that they not be closer than 3 years or so in age, so that kind of eliminates the whole idea!

I put little ponytails in Brynn's hair this morning, and it looks soooooo cute. She was so funny too; I told her I was going to put her hair in ponytails, and she kept touching them and calling them "ponyhair."







Oh, and she also told me this morning that my milk tastes like lemons (but she didn't seem to mind). Too funny!


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## MelW (Jan 13, 2005)

I'm so not keeping up very well... reading and half posting then running to get waking baby and never quite hitting the post button.

As for the age thing- I'm 27 so somewhere in the middle of the group. In Vancouver I was young for having babies (but still older than Fern







), but here I'm much more in the middle. DH is a student and we're renters, so we're not the "established" older family. But I had four years of working a good job before having Neela, some money and investments in the bank, etc. For us it was the right age- somewhere in the middle. I feel much older than I used to before having her, though. And I have a little jealousy of my DH's classmates who have the "freedom" to go out for drinks, etc. in a way that we totally don't. I think I should have partied harder in my youth









And I was "practiced" at sleep deprivation from being a shift worker. I handle sleeplessness okay, but I miss thinking "I can't wait until 7 am when I get to go home and go to sleep"









Right now the killer is working until 11:30pm and trying to force myself to sleep right away, knowing that Neela is likely to be up at 6 am. I'm getting a little sleep deprived, not to mention the all night-nursing. She sleeps better generally on the nights that I work and dh puts her to bed, so if/when it comes time to nightwean, he'll be in charge. And me staying in a hotel for a few nights sounds pretty sweet...


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Well I was feeling all sorry for myself about not being a real grownup financially (ie, no house) and then I realized, hey, I could totally pay off my student loans right now! So I did. I'm now debt-free! Woo!

But I still don't have a house.


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## flyingspaghettimama (Dec 18, 2001)

That is so great, Spughy. I'm in awe - because I have a house, but I have GINORMOUS student loan debt. We are working on them, we really are. But slowly. It's hard to be motivated to pay off student loan debt, so good for you that you were able to do it.

I have an idea, you guys move down here and you can make more money and buy a teeny tiny house like ours!

Fern, I do the same thing with my son when I'm touched out, usually after he finished a big nurse but just wants to keep on sucking-sucking-sucking and I can't sleep that way. Argh. Mostly, he'll settle for sleeping on me or his dad, or lying in the crook of my arm. He has to be very tired first though (usually in the middle of the night). I say the milk went night-night.


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## Queen of Cups (Aug 29, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaFern* 







helen.. i wish there was a way we could help.

my news.. im going to be 26 in a few days.. its so sad. i feel so old.. but not. im not old!. im a young mom of 2 kiddos..
.i need to do smething to make me feel young again.. ive decided to get my tattoos as a birthday gift for myself. im going to get ferns tattooed on my collarbones, kinda celtic like but not really.. *great at explaining things* as well as ferns, timothy grss, sage and ngaio all plant in black with some colour) on my forearm. tim is thinking of getting a matching tattoo as well.. im really excited!

I turned 27 back in November and I've been depressed about it on and off ever since. I just can't think of myself as being near 30 years old. I still want to think of myself as "young and cute" and that's just not me anymore, but I don't want to let it go. Its such a silly vanity thing, too, that I'm embarrassed its bothering me so much!


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## barcelona (May 1, 2006)

I'm 27, too, and understand all your feelings and agree. I feel so much older now that I'm a mom, and am also kind of mourning the fact that I am officially no longer so young and really entering true adulthood.

And yeah, we don't have debts, but we rent, and aren't really able to save, so that doesn't feel great. Especially as we realize how not-so-terribly-young we are.

Amy, so glad you had two nights of good sleep and Fern, so glad you got some good rest last night!

I'm pretty tired, after a couple of nights of Finley being attached nursing most of the night, but he seems to be teething...his gums are So swollen, so I chalk it up to that.

I'm all cuddled in bed with sleeping Finley waiting for DH and we're gonna watch a movie.


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flyingspaghettimama* 

How does your 15 month old sleep, DiD?

Awesome. He's a perfect angel.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
I haven't yet made a definite decision about TTC again. I can't face another big gap of 4-5 years though- I know for some people it's the right way to have kids, but it was so hard going back to the baby years this time, the only thing that kept me going was knowing that it is for such a short period and she will grow out of it. I have a fertility awareness class next week, and we're planning on CTA for a while.

I am so with you on this Helen. Having a 4 year age gap between Gabriel and Kolaiah was hard. Kolaiah and Winter are 27 months apart and that was easier but I've found that having Winter and Suriya so close together has been easiest of all.


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## spiritmomma (Aug 29, 2005)

I, too, have been reading. And not having time to respond...
Yesterday was my 29th birthday! And what FUN!
I ate a $36 filet mignon, an entire baked brie and then went to my favorite pre-baby jazz club and shared a pack of American Spirits with my sexy as hell DH. I also drank a Maker's Mark and coke. Ahhhh.... I needed that! When I went into the gas station to buy the cigarettes, I asked if they had American Spirits and he said yes. So I asked for the lightest, most air-like ones he had. "Trying to quit, are ya?" he asked. No, I said, I quit a long time ago. But it's my 29th birthday and I feel like having a drink and a smoke! "Right on, man" he said, then added, "you're not old." To which I replied, No, not old, just more _responsible_ than I used to be.

Isa spent the evening with her Nana having a blast, getting "spoiled" and eating whatever she wanted. She had a blast too.

So, to join in on current discussion, I am obviously 29. I feel good about it and am comfortable being this age. But *Fern*, 26 was a hard birthday for me too.
As far as being more responsible... well, only slightly. We still live paycheck to paycheck and have a TON of debts. We have paid down almost all of our credit cards (then cut them up into tiny little pieces and kissed them goodbye forever...) except for one. But I have student loans from college and from beauty school. And now we have Isa' GIGANTIC NICU bill. But other than that, we somehow have managed to scrape by and get a house. ( We couldn't beleive they'd loaned us the money...) We've been married 5 1/2 years now and are truly happy. I have everything I've ever wanted and am really freakin' happy about it.
Icing on the cake? My best friend of 12 years bought the house next door to me. And my other best friend who lives in California is moving to Indianapolis in 2 weeks. *sigh* Life is freakin' good despite the lack of sleep and super-turbo speed aging. I love my family and love my life.

This concludes my blissed out review of my life. Thanks for listening


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## spiritmomma (Aug 29, 2005)

p.s. YAY FOR SLEEP *AMY*!!!!!!









Oh, and I think I missed out on an opportunity to bookmark the blogs... If you keep a blog would you mind pm-ing me or posting the link so I can keep up with you guys?

I have a picture blog in my sig (which I never keep up) and a myspace blog at www.blog.myspace.com/jaymitharp


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Happy belated birthday spiritmomma. And how awesome that your friend bought the house next to yours. That'd be so neat.


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## *Amy* (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spiritmomma* 
My best friend of 12 years bought the house next door to me.

Wow, that would be like my dream dream dream. How utterly fabulous for you!!!! I'm glad you had a wonderful birthday, Mama!!


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

: spiritmomma! I feel so bad that we missed it









My blog is barely existant, since blogger beta hates me and doesn't want to let me play. I will hit it soon, and make it behave.
I have my mojo back and working. Somewhere between accepting that the sensible course of action is not shagging my husband every 15 minutes until getting pregnant again and finishing the kitchen, I realised that life is actually going on, and I'm part of it whether I want to be or not. The downside, of course, is that I have killer thrush, am walking like a cowboy and have just had the most embarrassing conversation of my life with an elderly male pharmacist who wanted to be sure that I really wanted canesten.







: Steve went in to buy it for me, so I could knit, and came back going "he won't sell it to me!!! They have to see you!!!" I was very good though and didn't embarrass him on purpose, though I really wanted to.
This time I'm going straight for chemicals. I gave the natural yoghurt thing 24 hours, and I still feel like I'm sitting on a blow torch, I have to go buy school shoes tomorrow and I can't do that if I'm scratching my crotch, people will disapprove.
FIL comes home on Wednesday, and when we visited today Skye got out of the car and started shouting ganda, granda until she got to him (she ran down the corridors as well, to get there faster.) So sweet







She calls mum granje too


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
This time I'm going straight for chemicals. I gave the natural yoghurt thing 24 hours, and I still feel like I'm sitting on a blow torch, I have to go buy school shoes tomorrow and I can't do that if I'm scratching my crotch, people will disapprove.









Helen you are a riot! I'm sorry you're in such misery but you are so funny about it







:


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Well, you know, I aim to please









Skye did the funniest thing in the middle of the night- she woke up to nurse, snuggled in and just before she latched on said "ere da go". I hadn't realised it, but most times when she's shouting for nursing, I do say "there you go"







- but it took me two sleepless hours to translate it. She's so sweet.


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

So cute!
It's late! I should be in bed!


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

*happy bee-lated birthday
**spiritmomma!

*


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## spiritmomma (Aug 29, 2005)

Hey thanks for the birthday wishes mamas!
It has been a great one. I'm looking forward to next year, though. The Big Three Oh! I'm having a party at Chuck E. Cheese. I mean it's where I had many of my young childhood birthdays as well as my 21st birthday. I'd like to have most of my milestone birthday parties there. And I already told my husband I didn't want a funeral. I just want everyone to party at Chuck E Cheese and think of me.









*Helen* I'm not laughing at your situation, but you can be SO funny about such misery! I guess it's like the old saying, if you don't laugh, you'll cry...

And speaking of laughing... has anyone else had the pleasure of reading Ayun Halliday's "The Big Rumpus"? It's like my freakin' autobiography! I LOVE IT. I highly recommend you get it from the library a.s.a.p. Especially those of you who've had a rough time of it lately. The book is great for lifting your spirits of out motherly misery and into a good belly laugh.

Hope everyone had a fabulous weekend! Love to all!

p.s. It's almost MARCH! OMG!!! Where does the time go?


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

FWIW, I'm 90% sure I ovulated the day of the big stilton outbreak. I guess mama nature is shouting really loudly at me to stop trying to grow my family right now, huh?
spiritmomma, thanks for the link







How did you know I'd need it? It sounds like a blast.
Fern, what day is the birthday?


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
Fern, what day is the birthday?

march 1st..

so ive been pretty much obsessivly searching for artwork to take in for my tattoo.. i have so much now but i stilll wish i could draw like i see it in my head. im going to try. used to do lots of art..but its been a while!
the only thing is the more i look the less sure i am of what i want! how confusing is that.. *sigh* which is probably why im 26 and still no tattoo. but im not backing out..but now i know why i have lots of piercings. they are much more striaght forward









anyone else with choice issues?


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## spiritmomma (Aug 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack*
spiritmomma, thanks for the link How did you know I'd need it? It sounds like a blast

I figured Chuck E Cheese was one of those cultural differences we might have.









*Fern* I can't wait to see pictures! Do you already have your appointment made? All my tattoos were done on the fly. I would get this idea and start making phone calls. There are 3 people in this city I trust implicitly with a tattoo. Well, two that I trust implicitly and one that surprises me with how good he is everytime, but I still don't really _trust_ him.







If one of them could do the work that day... I got a tattoo. If not, quel dommage; no ink. That's just the way it works for me. I enjoy being tattooed. The pleasant sound of the ink gun always sounds like "om" to me. I relax into the pain (as best I can) and surrender. It's transformative. I hope you enjoy your first inky experience!


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Spiritmomma- pictures?


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

i have an appt for the 8th but im going to cal today and see if there is a spot open sooner. im too impatient.
the appt is just for a consult, for me to bring in the art and stuff.. im not sure when ill be getting the tattoo done. soon i hope!


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)




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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaFern* 














Yikes! I hope that wasn't any of our Portland mamas!

I had a GREAT weekend with Rowan. She had fun at Kindermusic, we went out for lunch on Saturday and she was SO well behaved and actually ate stuff (lettuce even! - and she snitched all the shaved parmesan off my salad







) then we went shopping and I didn't bother with the stroller or sling or anything, she just held my hand and trotted along beside me - we even made it through the cramped little grocery store in Chinatown and got ourselves some fun fun fruit. And she was in such a chipper mood the whole day, it was just a really good time. And yesterday was a bit odd because she took two naps, which is pretty unusual for her these days, but she conked out at quarter to ten in the morning and then again at 2:30 in the afternoon (on the way to the mall to buy her new clothes) but it was ok. We managed to go and visit the baby goats at the Children's Farm in the park and she LOOOOOVED that. There was a miniature donkey there she was pretty fond of, plus peacocks putting on a big show, and she had a great time. She was really good around the baby goats, patted them very gently and let them nibble her fingers (they are still very tiny baby goats, no teeth yet!) and watched with great interest as they nursed from their mamas. She chased them a little (it's hard not to get revved up by bouncing baby goats) but wasn't at all hyper like some of the other kids there. I think she'd be a good kid to have on a farm.

Oh, and she helped - yes, actually helped! - me clean the bathroom yesterday, too - she took a swiffer cloth and did the baseboard heater and dusted some of the floor, too! She's very good at cleaning up spills in the kitchen now.

This morning she woke up early (6:40, ugh) and I nursed her sitting up in bed then when she was finished I said "Mama's going back to sleep now" and she actually came and snuggled up beside me and fell asleep for a bit too!!!! That was a first! Of course she didn't stay asleep for very long but she stayed snuggled up beside me (if a bit wriggly, so mama didn't ACTUALLY get back to sleep







) and we had nice cuddles. It was a lovely way to start the day.


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## Phoenix_Rising (Jun 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaFern* 














Thankfully not me









I woke up at 3am this morning to slobbery kisses from KeaganRae - I'm loving it, but oh so tired already


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

spughy said:


> Oh, and she helped - yes, actually helped! - me clean the bathroom yesterday, too - she took a swiffer cloth and did the baseboard heater and dusted some of the floor, too! She's very good at cleaning up spills in the kitchen now.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> That's so cute!! One of my favorite "tricks" that Ella has learned is dusting. I have a little feather duster, and when she sees it she starts saying, "Duh, Duh, Duh" (ie dust) and takes it and goes around dusting. She actually is pretty good at it too! She dusts all kind of things, and yesterday her dusting expanded to include the dog, which was pretty funny to watch!!! (Dog seemed to like it okay, strangely enough!)


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## MelW (Jan 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spiritmomma* 
I enjoy being tattooed. The pleasant sound of the ink gun always sounds like "om" to me. I relax into the pain (as best I can) and surrender. It's transformative. I hope you enjoy your first inky experience!

I just have one tattoo (a frog on my shoulder), but had quite the enjoyable endorphin high afterwards. Driving home afterwards was my one experience of driving "intoxicated"- I seriously think I was too high to drive safely. I'm exicted to see pics, Fern!

And YIKES about the portland traffic! I thought you were going to link photos of a nurse-in or something more likely, Fern!

Spughy- too cute about Rowan helping swiffer. Neela is helping clean now, too. She'll stand on a chair and "help" when I wash dishes, since she loooooves bubbles. She likes to play with the broom, too.


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

I'll probably be online a little less often. DP went back to work today.


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

well, i like to stir things up









im such a dumbass.. my dad gave me a 50$ bill for my birthday (he was visiting for a day and night) and i promtly lost it.. i put it in my hoodie pocket, did some stuff around the house remembered it and went to put it in my purse, and it wass gone. ive searched high and low..







: its not a lot of money, but its something..well, not anymore







knowing me, i flushed it down the toilet or dropped it on the road in the rain and it washed it away.
i hope that it brightens someones day anyways.

i found it! it was in a very strange place, but its not in a puddle somewhere, so its all good and going into my tattoo fund


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## spiritmomma (Aug 29, 2005)

yay for lost and found!


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## flyingspaghettimama (Dec 18, 2001)

That's OK. Mr FSB is waiting until he's of legal age, when he's apparently planning to marry the vacuum cleaner. Boy, does he love the vacuum.

The broom is also SUPER cool too.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Housework? What's housework? My girl does power tools- she's coveting the drill, the jigsaw, and is rarely seen without a toy screwdriver in her hand these days


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

both of my kids like sweeping and vaccuuming. elwynn loves doing the dishes too.
now i just need to have a kid that likes washing the floor and the toilet!


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Winter loves the broom. HATES the vacuum. He hides from it.


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## MelW (Jan 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DreamsInDigital* 
Winter loves the broom. HATES the vacuum. He hides from it.

So cute! Neela loves it all...vacuum, broom, and wrenches.


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## Phoenix_Rising (Jun 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaFern* 
i found it! it was in a very strange place, but its not in a puddle somewhere, so its all good and going into my tattoo fund









Glad you found it


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DreamsInDigital* 
Winter loves the broom. HATES the vacuum. He hides from it.

Too cute!!!

For more cuteness, see Rowan's latest dance moves.


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spughy* 
Too cute!!!

For more cuteness, see Rowan's latest dance moves.

OMG, that's hilarous!!!! How cute!


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

I've got no sound on my computer- what was she listening to?


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## *Amy* (Jun 16, 2004)

Hee-hee. Dance parties are the best!! I love the little hop! Hey Spughy, no package yet huh? They told me 4-10 business days, so that should be tomorrow or Friday at the latest!

I feel like I have been in a non-stop whirlwind the past week or so. I've had a ton of slings to make (just finished the last one yesterday - yay!!!) and Jason's been gone so much. I feel like I need to stop and take a breath! He still doesn't have any offers, but the Nebraska job is looking more and more like a definite possibility. I have such mixed feelings about it!! On one hand, we'd be able to save enough money over the next 3 years to not really have to worry about retirement again - so that's huge. On the other hand, it's out in the middle of fricking nowhere, and I worry about the opportunities for enrichment that would be available to me and Brynnie. *Kavita*, I've really been thinking about you a lot and how y'all are going to be moving to Louisville, and what a big change that is going to be for you. Are you feeling any better about it? I had the same feelings when I was looking at the webpage and real estate listings for this town in Nebraska. It's flat! It's brown! There is nowhere to hike; no lakes; no rivers!!!!







But it is 9 miles from the Colorado border, and 2 hours to Denver, so I guess we could find things to do. It just wouldn't be walking distance, like where we live now. However, I probably would be able to get a horse, so that would be so fun! I had horses growing up, but haven't had one since I was in high school. So yee-haw to that!

In other news, sleeping is going SO WELL these past few days. I am truly a new person! She's sleeping 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 hours at a stretch on her own, and it's making a huge difference in my life. She's also getting her far-back bottom molars on both sides, but seems to do just fine with one dose of motrin at bedtime for the past two nights. I think that letting her sleep in her own space is making a huge difference. When I bring her in bed with me at around 5:00am, she tosses and turns so much more and just generally seems really restless. In her own bed, she usually sleeps in the same position for 2+ hours, and seems to be in a much deeper sleep.

Speaking of which, she's awake.


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## spiritmomma (Aug 29, 2005)

Yay for a sleeping Brynn!!! Yay for a sleeping AMY!!!









Love Rowan's dancing too. Super cute. Wish we had a video that would shoot for more than 16 seconds...









Happy Wednesday!


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spughy* 
Too cute!!!

For more cuteness, see Rowan's latest dance moves.


that is so cute! i love dancing babies!


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 









I've got no sound on my computer- what was she listening to?

A godawful electronic toy that plays "Over 70 Different Sounds!!!!" most of them snippets of familiar music. But there are cow moos and horse whinnies and cowbells and clock noises and whatnot too - she thumps the buttons until they play a tune, and if she likes it, she dances to it. It's the only electronic toy she has and I banished it to the IL's house, but as you can see, she loves it. Of course.

Amy - nope, no package yet. But YAY for Brynn sleeping!!! That's awesome. I'm so happy for you.

Oh, and I saw this picture posted on another forum: http://www.mexicanpictures.com/archi...-daughter.html It's so beautiful, I just wanted to share it with everyone here too. Don't you just love it?


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## kaspirant (Apr 28, 2006)

ooh. I'm so far behind. i was thinking I would catch up but there is so much. I will try to later...*hugs* mamas!!


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## zjande (Nov 4, 2002)

Hi! Add me to the "Ack I'm so far behind" list. You'd never know by my lack of posting but I sure do think of you guys often.








I LOVE that picture spughy!

OMG I think the age our babies are at has to be just about the cutest thing EVER. Makin' babies is so much fun.


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## s_kristina (Aug 9, 2004)

I think I've caught up with this thread for the first time this month and it's the last day of the month







I've got a little bit of experience with dairy allergies. What I've heard from different doctors and allergists is that dairy takes the longest to leave your system so from 3-6 weeks for all the diary proteins to leave your system if that really is a problem.

Sleeping is fine for us with Joseph he is only up a couple times a night. On the other hand the 5 year old still gets up to come check and make sure we haven't disappeared in the middle of the night or something. She didn't sleep longer then 2 hours at a time until she was close to 2. She was between 2.5 to 3 years old before she slept through the night a single time. I think Joseph was a few months old when he slept through. We are having all sorts of fun issues with Annette though and will be getting some evaluations done prior to her starting kindy in the fall. She will be getting a speech eval in a little over a month. Our biggest worry is some idiot is going to want to put her on meds for add or adhd which we will not allow. She just has about enough energy for 4 or 5 kids her age and is very sensitive. Compared to her ds is a breeze to parent.

I'm not really having a hard time with my age recently. I'm all of 28 to dh's 43 so it doesn't seem like a big deal to me. I am having a hard time with having a kid about to enter kindy and my hair. About half my head is white now! Facing all that white hair and not feeling good about how I look is taking a toll on me, but it's rather a spiral at the moment so nothing is getting done about it. I'm still unsure if I'll go back to coloring my hair or just start up a betting pool as to how long it will be until I'm totally white.


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## kaspirant (Apr 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zjande* 
Hi! Add me to the "Ack I'm so far behind" list. You'd never know by my lack of posting but I sure do think of you guys often.








I LOVE that picture spughy!

OMG I think the age our babies are at has to be just about the cutest thing EVER. Makin' babies is so much fun.
















and how is the married woman doing?!?! I've been thinking about you quite a bit wondering how you've been ... especially after you disappeared there for a while after your wedding...my wedding is in 35 days







I swear the time is flying by...


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Winter's starting to get a double chin from all the nursing on top of his normal eating. SO cute.


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## MelW (Jan 13, 2005)

Neela loves watching Rowan and Brynn's dance moves "baby! dancing!" They are so cute!

Though she was even more excited about the fire in your video, Spughy. We go to a grocery market with a fireplace, and she starts shouting fire as soon as we get into the parking lot. And runs back to it from all corners of the store if I let my guard down when shopping! Lately goodnight moon goes "in the great green room there was a fire. And a fire. And a fire- on every single page. Yes, a fire". My little pyro


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## *Amy* (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *s_kristina* 
Our biggest worry is some idiot is going to want to put her on meds for add or adhd which we will not allow. She just has about enough energy for 4 or 5 kids her age and is very sensitive.

Have you read The Highly Sensitive Child? My BFF just read it and said that it has TOTALLY given her new perspective on her kindergartener. There is a really good thread here on MDC about it too!!


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## barcelona (May 1, 2006)

Hi everyone on the last day of February, and another one who can't keep up!

Spughy, Rowan is adorable dancing.
Amy, HOORAY for sleeping!
kaspirant, how VERY exciting about the wedding in the oh so close future!!!
DiD, I love hearing that Winter is nursing and loving it and getting a double chin. So cute.
Spiritmomma, HAPPY BIRTHDAY (very late) sounds like you had a wonderful day and night...and what icing on the cake that your bf is moving next door!
MelW, that is hilarious about the fire obsession









Not much news here...Finley and I went out to two playdates today, though, which was too much for both of us. We are wiped.







: It was particularly exhausting, b/c the second one was with a little boy who's a bit older, and VERY physical, and though very well-meaning, pretty agressive. Finley was So upset and crying most of the time we were there. I felt so badly that I couldn't protect him more.







I didn't feel right just leaving the playdate, and in the meantime, did all that I could to protect him...and was also trying to let the boys "figure it out themselves" and not be a helicopter/overprotective mom...but on the other hand, he was getting slapped and knocked over and was so so scared and upset.

That's my little vent for the day.

DH and I are trying to figure out our lives (with the bad news about the movie from about 6 weeks ago), and one possibility is that we'll move to LA, which we really don't want to do, but it's just something floating around in our heads...

Thinking about you all and wishing you all a happy Wednesday and happy March starting tomorrow!


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## *Amy* (Jun 16, 2004)

Here is the new March thread, Mamas!

Barcelona, sorry your playdate was so stressful for you both. I am finding things to be trickier with playdates and groups now that all of the kids are getting older too. Lots of "MINE" and such. And that is a bummer about your DH's situation.







Moving to LA - wow, that would be major, wouldn't it? Seems like a lot of us are going through some major changes right now!


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