# June Thread for NT Mamas



## member (Apr 15, 2002)

Hee! Mountain Mom said I could.







Here is the link for the May thread.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

Hey Selu!

Happy June everyone, ours came in with rain, thank goodness.

Oh and Selu, I meant put a link on the may thread to link here, so all the subscribers would know to come here instead.


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## member (Apr 15, 2002)

I knew, that why I did not do that I am not sure. My brain is fried. :LOL


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)




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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)




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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

HI! Just started saurkraut (sp?) for the first time yesterday. I hope it works. I have been so interested in fermenting, but finally got brave enough to try something. Also almost have my garden in (first garden of my very own) and am so excited. I walk through it every morning. What a wonderful way to wake up!! Hope everyone is enjoying the beginnings of summer!

Oh a question about the kraut. I didn't have anything to hold it down with so I just keep occasionaly pushing it back down under the juice is this ok?


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## halah (Apr 28, 2002)

Hi all,

I am relatively new to NT/WAPF we've joined a co-op that gets us raw milk, buttermilk, grass fed meat and the most wonderful orange-yolk eggs. I have been soaking our oatmeal and pancakes and even tried liver (uh...not so great







)

I have been giving my 19 month old CLO (Nordic Naturals, about 1750 IU's Vitamin A per tsp) and found that her skin is softer, eczema patches healed, and she's gained weight. Great! I really like this whole approach to eating and children.

Here's my question: When giving kids cod liver oil, especially if we switch to the high-vitamin kind, what do you do about the other vitamin and minerals? I like to give my kids a multi because it seems to boost their immunity and energy. But I don't feel safe giving them such an enormous daily dose of Vitamin A. (CLO + multi) Rainbow Light for kids has both Vitamin A palminate and beta carotene, but it doesn't tell how much of one vs. the other.

Am I making any sense? How do you guys supplement other vit/minerals for young children, if at all?

Thanks!


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artisticat*

Oh a question about the kraut. I didn't have anything to hold it down with so I just keep occasionaly pushing it back down under the juice is this ok?

Fill an appropriate sized bag full of brine water (in case it breaks) and use that as the weight to press the kraut down. According to Sandor the weight is an important part of the kraut preparation.

Also skim the top for mold often.


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## mamamillie (Jul 22, 2003)

Hi mamas. Signing on








Who is Sandor?

So I got my kefir grains and they are working...I can't really stomach it; I guess I have to psych myself into enjoying it. I just keep thinking it is rotting milk, sitting out on the counter for days... just a little grossed out. It is fine in my smoothies, though, so it is being used. My ds drank some and liked it, he is calling it "old milk." :LOL The batch I strained last night was made w a smaller amount of milk (I ran out) for a longer time, and it was THICK and smelled seriously yeasty, like bread dough. So I am thinking it will be excellent for using in waffles and maybe other quick breads.....

Happy June!







The cicadas are going strong already, here; this morning they started up full blast before dawn. I found a huge organic farm only about 35 miles from me and I am looking forward to running over there and filling some bushel baskets and two coolers...I plan to ferment a LOT of stuff and will also get canning going on. I can't raise much here by the river, and there are NO organics available here locally. SO I will feel so much better when I get my freezer and pantry stocked w clean whole foods.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

Sandor Katz....he wrote Wild Fermentation.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

mamamillie -- try a kefir smoothie with fruit and stevia. It's very good. I can't drink it straight myself.

In about six weeks our freezer will be full of grassfed beef. A local rancher grazes his cattle on land that is watered year-round. They have water rights to the streams and water their land to save on hay and grain costs (I assume). They aren't doing the grassfed thing for health reasons. I talked to him about what a gold mine they have and that they need to market the beef to our market, not just take them to a regular auction. I got his attention with the prices of beef. In the meantime, he just called us with one that's available.


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

Well, I just finished the best sandwich ever, and wanted to brag. It was kimchi and raw cheddar on two slices of homemade 100% whole wheat sourdough bread toasted and spread with organic butter.
Mmmmmmmm . . . I think I'm in love with kimchi. It's sure staving off the morning sickness . . .

. . . was that too subtle?


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

HEY!!!!








(non-alcoholic)










:stork

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!


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## member (Apr 15, 2002)

Congratulations, HerthElde!









Question... can I soak my oatmeal in yogurt? Overnight covered lightly but on the counter? I am thinking yes, but wanna get feedback.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

Yup I have done it. The only thing is when you cook the oatmeal tomorrow the good beasties will not survive.

But the phytate bond will be broken.

Can you seperate the yougurt?


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## member (Apr 15, 2002)

Into cheese and whey? Yep, I do that often. I could live on yogurt cheese, but that's another post.

I am not cooking the oats. I've been doing thick oats with yogurt, desiccated coconut and a touch of honey soaked for a minute in the AM, but not over night. It's really, really good.


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## toraji (Apr 3, 2003)

Congratulations HerthElde!!!

(I'm LOL at kimchee and cheese though! But my mom swears that in Korea they serve kimchee as a pizza topping.)


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Blessings HerthElde. I'm in for that sandwich!

We always soak our oatmeal in yogurt. I add lots of raw ginger, dried ground cardomom and a handful of coconut to the muesli recipe. We eat it with chopped apples and raisins and coconut or almond milk. Delish.

This morning we began our day with soaked kamut pancakes and organic, uncured turkey bacon. Later I'll be tasting the almond cookies. They're cooling in the kitchen right now. Have a good weekend mamas.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Congratulations HerthElde! That's fantastic!


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## eminer (Jan 21, 2003)

Hi everyone! Couldn't quite decide where to post this, and figured some of you might know. Our younger dd's doctor is of course telling us to give her tri-vi-sol (she's 2.5 months old). Last time I blew that off, but my older dd has a lot of tooth decay and a very...narrow bone structure, and since reading *Nutrition and Physical Degeneration* I wonder if that could be due to mineral deficiencies. So knowing what I do now about how high the need is and the limited seasonal UV at our latitude (esp. when I am also shading my dd's fair skin), I am reluctant to blow it off again. But I really don't want to give her sugary vitamin syrup, either.

So...does anyone know if it is safe/healthy to give an infant Cod Liver Oil? If so, how much to give? Or do you have some other, minimalist (I would prefer to delay all food but for my concern about vit. D) supplement suggestion?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Since we live in the north, I started supplementing in the winter with natural vitamin D capsules from fish oil. I just pierced the capsule with the tine of a fork and squirted it in his mouth. There was no way I was going to give him that crappy vitamin sludge either, and made by a formula co. too!

DS went on 1/2 tsp. cod liver oil when he was 8 mo old px'd by a naturopath for his eczema, I don't know about giving it earlier.


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## Hibou (Apr 7, 2003)

I've been cooking with/using fish sauce more often and was just reading about how it's made here:
http://www.thaifoodandtravel.com/fea...ishsauce1.html
It's a fermented food, but I was wondering if anyone knows if it's processed when it's bottled?


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## mommabear (Mar 5, 2002)

Hi all! I have been following the NT threads for a while now, and just wanted to jump in and say Hi and that you are all so inspiring! I started some grains soaking this morning to make an Ezekial bread tomorrow, so we'll see how that goes! I also have a sourdough starter that I have been using for almost a year, so I feel good knowing I am already doing something NT. Anyway, I just wanted to jump in and continue learning from you all! Thanks!


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## alamama (Mar 21, 2005)

Glad to meet some other NT mamas! My husband persuaded me to try eating the NT way after several years as a lacto-ovo veg. and I've felt much better for it. We raise our own chickens for eggs and meat and goats for milk, and luckily have a good source of grass fed beef. This thread is inspiring me to get back to making fermented veggies again; we love the cortido.

Here's a question: Do you save the fat from your chicken stocks? If so, how do you store it and what do you do with it?


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## member (Apr 15, 2002)

I just made my first bone broth from chicken! I am too excited. I skimmed off the fat, Alamama, but I am not sure what I will do with it. For now, it's in a jar in the fridge.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

Welcome Alamama!

I use the fat for frying as well for Baked beans.

Sometimes I skim the fat and sometimes I don't it really depends on what kind of soup I am going to make from the stock.


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## eminer (Jan 21, 2003)

Thanks, Jane!


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Pancake help needed, ladies.

I've made the basic pancakes 3 times now. 1st time they were great. 2nd time they were inedible. Burnt on the outside because no matter how long I cooked them they remained a sodden mess inside. 3rd time they were somewhere between first and second time. Anybody have any ideas? They seem to take a long time to cook on the inside. How does one get them fully cooked without burning them?

On a more successful note I made the Indian lamb stew last night and it was delicious. The spices added a subtlety to the flavor and the marination of the lamb in yogurt made for meat the one could cut with a fork.

I think I'm going to try make the chicken liver pate next. I do like pate but haven't been able to bring myself to eat what is sold in the stores. Who knows what's in there YK. The NT recipe looks rather good and not too complicated. Plus it'll be loaded with natural vitamin A.

Slowly, slowly I'm learning to accommodate the prep time into my days. It's a really satisfying feeling to sit down to a meal that took longer than half an hour to make, that actually took more than a day to make YK. I like that alot. I like this rhythm around food and the preparation of it. There is something infinitely sane about it in the context of our larger, busier world.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **solsticemama**
I think I'm going to try make the chicken liver pate next.

Mmmm, I was just looking at this... let us know how it comes out!

I also want to report that after a couple of week "aging" in the frig. the ketchup I made (and complained about) was finally NOT too fishy. Well maybe a little more than I like, but definately edible and very savoury.

I made the Eggplant Kiku (with farm fresh eggs) and it is delish.


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## Brookesmom (Oct 12, 2002)

Just popping in to say: I've been wondering more about fish sauce too, since it is a fermented food. Does anyone know? Perhaps I'll do a web search.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hibou*
I've been cooking with/using fish sauce more often and was just reading about how it's made here:
http://www.thaifoodandtravel.com/fea...ishsauce1.html
It's a fermented food, but I was wondering if anyone knows if it's processed when it's bottled?


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## mamamillie (Jul 22, 2003)

speaking of fish and sauce, I was coming here to post this:

OLD SOUR
a Latin American favorite for fish and seafood
from Mother Nature's Herbal
2 c freshly squeezed lime juice
1 Tbs salt
Add salt to lime juice and set 1 hour. Strain through double layer of cheesecloth and bottle. Store in cool, dark place for one month before serving on fish. Do not refrigerate.

So, would you use whey instead of salt, or reduce the salt and add whey? Sounds awesome.


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

Depending on how ambitious I'm feeling, sometimes I throw out my stock fat (gasp! what a waste, I know). But I have also used it for frying onions for chicken soup (it is soooooo good to use for that). It's got a fairly strong chicken flavour though, so I'd say you could probably only use it in dishes that a little chicken flavour works in (hey, I bet you could use it in place of butter in a chicken alfredo type sauce)


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

How many of you keep the fat in the soup?

Do you always skim it off? Or do you sometimes leave it on/in?


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Can't speak to the soup question but we keep all the drippings whenever we roast chicken thighs. Dinner the other night produced a nice container of pure, pale yellow, organic chicken fat, also known as schmalz, that sat atop a thick layer of clear, organic gelatin. Ds loves to eat the gelatin plain so that made up a good part of his breakfast this morning. A year or two ago I might have been appalled at the thought of giving this to him but after all my reading I know now how very healthy it is. I have yet to use the chicken fat but I'm going to try cooking with it this week. As well as the fermented carrots.


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## member (Apr 15, 2002)

I made some more bone broth this AM, and I left the fat in it for mixing with coconut oil for a tonic when my allergies are really bad and I have no appetite. It tastes awesome.


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## alamama (Mar 21, 2005)

I usually skim the fat, but not fanatically, when making soups. My dh would love it if I used the fat for something, though, so I may try it for sauteeing onions, etc. I wasn't sure how it would taste -- I'll reserve it for chickeny dishes now.

For those of you who take cod liver oil, what brand do you use? We've been getting Carlson's lemon flavored in a 16 oz bottle, but it takes us a long time to go through it and I worry about it going bad. Also, do any of you switch to fish oil in the summer months?


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

Thanks for the feedback about the fat. I left it in this time. Its very rich.

We use Nordic Naturals as well as Carlson's for fish oil.


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## cobluegirl (Nov 20, 2001)

Hi` just subbing and reading. We went to a NT meeting 2 weeks ago. I have had the book for oh probably a year or so...we have done raw milk for years. I have been doing kefir for a couple of months now. Lets see...last week we purged the kitchen and threw out everything that had sugar, corn syrup, and perservatives etc...So now my cupboards are bare...I actually love it. Goes with my decluttering..(I can dream can't I hehe)


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Nordic Natural's has low vitamin D so we used it year round. However, we recently switched to Carlson's b/c the DHA is so much higher and the oil is actually cheaper too. I did just get fish oil b/c we are outside every day now.


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## cjr (Dec 2, 2003)

Mountain Mom, where do you get the Carlson's from? I have looked for it, but I can't find it.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

Justene picked it up for me at Vitamin Warehouse in Kensington.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

I order mine from www.iherb.com b/c they have free fast shipping (and I'm usually getting a bunch of other stuff cheap too).


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## cobluegirl (Nov 20, 2001)

We use the Nordic Naturals stawberry flavored children's ones....are they good? The kids love them....


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## arcenciel (Nov 26, 2001)

Hi. Just subbing. I didn't even notice that another month had started that I hadn't subscribed to....never mind.

I've been slowly introducing NT changes to my diet over the last months, but I've not been especially aware of any differences - probably I'm not doing enough of it yet. I was wondering what you all found made the most difference? I know some of you were veggie before, but was it just the meat? Or soaking grains? Or fermenting things? Or something else?


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

My ND had me taking both Carlson's Super CLO and fish oil. But it felt like too much. So I cut back on the fish oil completely and she suggested the Carlson's Liquid form of CLO which has a much lower dose than the gelcaps. But I'm wondering if I need to take it during the summer. And maybe I'll switch over to just fish oil, nordic probably tho she suggested one that was better quality.

Last night we started back again with sauerkraut. Our HFS carries a raw organic one with garlic and dill that is delicious but $. I'm contemplating making our own but feeling a bit daunted by the process. Is it complicated? Do the results yield a good-tasting product?


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## cjr (Dec 2, 2003)

The Nordic Naturals flavored varieties are way out of my price range. For a family of 5 it would cost a pretty penny each month. All of those pennies are needed for actual food. I hate spending loads of money on suppliments. I would much rather eat the real thing. However, I have been wanting to add a fish oil I just don't want to spend $100/month to do it. KWIM?


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## mamamillie (Jul 22, 2003)

I am pretty new to NT, but I say the best thing for me so far, is knowing about fats. I am feeling really good about using butter (esp since ds has serious tooth decay that I am hoping not to drill or cap). We spent $18 on butter last month!

And I love making and using chicken stock. We are still eating mostly veg, but we seriously loving that stock for beans and rice and everything else...and so are our dogs! I made a huge pot of dogfood last night w soaked brown rice and chix stock, chix fat, carrots, some leftover limas, garlic, brewer's yeast, eggs, and a little meat. They are LOVING it; I hope I have enough to last the week. I wonder how my dogs would do w kefir????

I am very interested in clo for ds and myself, but we live way down south and are on the beach everyday, so I have decided to wait for autumn before I begin. I plan to use it as a daily supplement when the days are short, and d/c (or reduce from daily to what, a couple times a week, if we notice the difference) for summers.


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## TopazBlueMama (Nov 23, 2002)

I recently read http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...ndmiracle.html as a refresher on the importance of vitamin D, you all might want to read it.
We are still taking CLO because I think it's too risky to rely on vitamin D just from the sun, and I won't take synthetic forms. We're just not outside in the peak hours of daylight, and I like the shade.
But we also get raw milk and butter and good eggs so that helps.

I've been very into NT lately, I love this way of eating. It is the most balanced way of eating that I've ever tried. I have Eat Fat Lose Fat (Enig/Fallon) and have been following the guidelines closely of the meal plans. Well, I followed a few days, and have done the rest myself, but I've never been able to follow any type of diet or meal plans for more than 3 days, but I've been doing this for over a week now and have had no refined sugar or foods of any kind, and I do not feel deprived at all.

I like that you don't have to overeat (even if it is just vegetables or fruits) or take any type of supplements to get all the nutrition you need because of dropping out some food groups.
My fridge was stocked full of veggies too, and just a few cuts of meat lasted me the whole week since you use up leftovers.
It's nice having a plan and not feeling deprived or having bad cravings.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tweetybirds2*
I recently read
It's nice having a plan and not fe.... I'm working on that now. It's a good thing.


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## cobluegirl (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cjr*
The Nordic Naturals flavored varieties are way out of my price range. For a family of 5 it would cost a pretty penny each month. All of those pennies are needed for actual food. I hate spending loads of money on suppliments. I would much rather eat the real thing. However, I have been wanting to add a fish oil I just don't want to spend $100/month to do it. KWIM?

yes totally...I buy it on sale and we don't take it...just the kids...hehe...we shall see if we can continue to buy them...teh kids won't take anything else... they do like the coromega fish oil packets..but those are spendy too....and not the CLO..just FO


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## cobluegirl (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tweetybirds2*
I recently read http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...ndmiracle.html as a refresher on the importance of vitamin D, you all might want to read it.
We are still taking CLO because I think it's too risky to rely on vitamin D just from the sun, and I won't take synthetic forms. We're just not outside in the peak hours of daylight, and I like the shade.
But we also get raw milk and butter and good eggs so that helps.

I've been very into NT lately, I love this way of eating. It is the most balanced way of eating that I've ever tried. I have Eat Fat Lose Fat (Enig/Fallon) and have been following the guidelines closely of the meal plans. Well, I followed a few days, and have done the rest myself, but I've never been able to follow any type of diet or meal plans for more than 3 days, but I've been doing this for over a week now and have had no refined sugar or foods of any kind, and I do not feel deprived at all.

I like that you don't have to overeat (even if it is just vegetables or fruits) or take any type of supplements to get all the nutrition you need because of dropping out some food groups.
My fridge was stocked full of veggies too, and just a few cuts of meat lasted me the whole week since you use up leftovers.
It's nice having a plan and not feeling deprived or having bad cravings.


tell me about this book..I am a little skeptical ( ormaybe it is brainwashed..hehe) that eating that much fat would be good for you. The NT meeting we went to 2 weeks ago was good..but a heavyset lady telling us to eat 50% fat was not a real good motivater...dh wants to lose weight and be healthy..not gain a bunch of weight....


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## TopazBlueMama (Nov 23, 2002)

It really doesn't seem like too much fat when you get into it. Let's see, there is the t. of CLO, and a spoonful of coconut oil before each meal. Then just the whole milk and other extra fats that you sometimes cook with or add things too, like butter and salad dressings and stuff.
I was amazed that in taking in 2500 calories a day for a week I could lose weight! You need fat for your cells to function optimally, instead of just getting by.
And it is not like all those other diets where you lose an insane amount of weight the first week or so. It is a slow and steady loss of fat right from the start.
Now I cringe whenever I hear of girls saying that they are going to be really good on their diet and only eat 1200 calories a day. That is barely enough for your body to function, let alone to optimally nourish your body!
I dunno, I'm happy with the principles and how they have been working for me personally. But we're all different and have to find what works for us!
I'm just glad I finally found it after my 6 year nutrition quest!


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## cobluegirl (Nov 20, 2001)

so you do actually lose weight on it? Dh is just concerned about gaining weight....
he has about 25 and i have about 40 and don't wanna gain....hehe

Quote:

Now I cringe whenever I hear of girls saying that they are going to be really good on their diet and only eat 1200 calories a day. That is barely enough for your body to function, let alone to optimally nourish your body!
I totally feel the same way...1200-1500 is just way to little...


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

On the fat issue – I’ve been eating 4000+ calories a day for over two years whereas I had been told that my maintenance calorie intake should be about 1800. At first I lost a lot since I was on a candida diet and had cut out all of the grains. About 15 months ago when we were in the process of moving, I started eating out a lot and grains slipped back in. I gained and kept gaining. But under the old calorie-counting convention, I should have gained about 100 pounds. I don’t know what I’ve gained, 30 pounds maybe. I’m close to where I started. The biggest impact on how I feel and whether I am retaining water (real puffy) is my grain intake. If I am eating plenty of oils and no grains, I feel great.


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## member (Apr 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tweetybirds2*
I have Eat Fat Lose Fat (Enig/Fallon) and have been following the guidelines closely of the meal plans. Well, I followed a few days, and have done the rest myself, but I've never been able to follow any type of diet or meal plans for more than 3 days, but I've been doing this for over a week now and have had no refined sugar or foods of any kind, and I do not feel deprived at all.

I've been using the book as well and feel great! The recipes are just incredible. Last night I made the coconut chicken and rice sou (added tomatoes and roasted chili paste) and it was incredible! I am eating the leftovers today. Coconut oil has been amazing for me; I have energy that does not fade like with coffee and it is tremendously helping my IBS symptoms.


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## TopazBlueMama (Nov 23, 2002)

Quote:

so you do actually lose weight on it? Dh is just concerned about gaining weight....
Yeah, it's suppost to be a 1-2 pound a week weight loss. I lost 2 pounds last week. I'll see if I lose anymore this week. I've also started getting up earlier most mornings to exercise. Which of course is key! I've lost weight before on diet only, just a little exercise, and I wasn't as happy as I should have been with my body, because it gets smaller, but stays the same shape, so it's not as noticable to yourself.
But I'd like to lose 20 or so pounds by October. Which should be doable. I could possibly be getting pregnant too, so I don't want to do any diet that cuts down on nutrition.

Quote:

I've been using the book as well and feel great! The recipes are just incredible. Last night I made the coconut chicken and rice sou (added tomatoes and roasted chili paste) and it was incredible!
Sounds good! I'll have to try those. I've used several recipes as well. The coconut crackers are good. Dense, but good. I made the cereal before too. It tastes like Grape Nuts. I did all the recipes on the first 3 days. The leg of lamb has lasted me forever! I love the Leftover Leg of Lamb soup in NT.

gale force, your experience is interesting! What path are you wanting to take now, or are you happy with how things are?
My body seems to metabolize grains pretty good, just things like soaked cereal grains and whole grain sourdough bread though. I gain from the other refined grains and sugars.

i've got to find some kale recipes, I'm picking it all from my garden today. So that's what I'll be eating the rest of the week.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tweetybirds2*
gale force, your experience is interesting! What path are you wanting to take now, or are you happy with how things are?

I have cut out grains entirely. When I was eating out a lot a year ago, I did eat white rice and such but in the fall and winter, it was mainly soaked whole grains. Sometime this spring I woke up puffy and realized I had undone all of the good work I had done previously. It's really odd - I look puffy and the bottoms of my feet hurt. I cut out grains and felt relief almost instantly.

I hope to lose some of my winter coat as well, but for now I am focusing on the diet (and exercise) and the rest should follow.


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## steffanie3 (Mar 17, 2002)

I finally got the NT book from the library. I am really excited. I had been using a little of the NT ideas I heard on here, but now I can read it and get even more ideas. I was going to make the fermented carrots, but the little local grocery store doesn't have ginger and I didn't think the powdered would work. Such is life living in a tiny town in the middle of nowhere. LOL

I am hoping to call a guy about raw milk. What should I ask him? I am sure it is just a personal cow that they are trying to sell some excess milk from, so I doubt it has been tested or anything. I just saw a posting in town for fresh milk for $2 a gallon, I am really excited because I couldn't buy organic for that and now I am learning that raw is the way to go.

I am also trying to lose weight and the all the fat seems like a bad idea, but I am going to try.


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## alamama (Mar 21, 2005)

I think what makes the difference with the fats is eating only healthy fats. If you cut out all the processed vegetable oils / hydrogenated fats, you've eliminated a ton of unhealthy foods from your diet. Even better to go a step further and eliminate refined flour and sugar. For me, it's the sugar and carbs that keepe the weight on - not the fat.


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## arcenciel (Nov 26, 2001)

Gale Force, I'm quite into the idea of cutting out grains - at least for a while to see the effects - but what do you eat? Especially for breakfast. I used to always have breakfast cereal. Since I discovered NT I've cut out sugar and now I have oatmeal every day instead, occasionally at weekends I'll have pancakes or sometimes bread and honey or boiled eggs and toast. I guess I could just about manage the eggs with no toast, but not that often.

Did you notice other benefits from cutting grains apart from the weight loss?


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *arcenciel*
Gale Force, I'm quite into the idea of cutting out grains - at least for a while to see the effects - but what do you eat? Especially for breakfast.

Typically eggs, though those get old. Through the summer we often have eggs with sauteed squash on the side or inside the scramble. Soup is the backup plan. We try to have a soup on hand all the time. I'll try to post some other suggestions later. It is a huge change.

Quote:

Did you notice other benefits from cutting grains apart from the weight loss?
The reason I'm cutting them again is because of the water retention -- my body just cannot be functioning properly if I am storing all of this water and the bottoms of me feet are hurting. The initial reason for the diet was candida.


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## cobluegirl (Nov 20, 2001)

What kinds of VCO do you all take? I am only familier with Garden of Life....


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

www.tropicaltraditions.com is the best, I love their coconut cream concentrate too.


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

We haven't cut out grains completely here. We still eat a very dense sourdough rye and I soak oats or spelt for ds's muffins and pancakes. But that's about it. For breakfasts we eat ALOT of greens, kale and the like, potatoes and eggs or uncured organic turkey bacon. Sometimes we have a raw grainless cereal of sprouted walnuts, apple, almonds, and other good things. You can buy this online. I'll try and find the link. They make a good raw grainless cracker as well. We'll have this with yogurt/kefir/coconut melk or almond melk. Once you get out of the grain habit and let your imagination take off with any possibility of good food it becomes second nature. Soup for breakfast, salad, fish and so on.


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## cobluegirl (Nov 20, 2001)

yeah grains are really hard here...especially for breakfast....


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## mamamillie (Jul 22, 2003)

I am thinking of dropping wheat. That will be hard enough (we love whole wheat pasta and eat it a few times a week), so I doubt I will totally let go of grains, but I am becoming aware of the need to limit them. For breakfasts, I think it is a really good idea to consume fruits. We generally do smoothies for breakfast, eggs when we feel hungry. Remember Fit for Life? That is what they recommended, eating only fruits before noon, as your body should be in an elimination stage during those hours. I think it makes perfect sense to eat fruits early in the day, we always have done that.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

Only sprouted grain bread or sourdough spelt bread here.

We only eat quinoa as well, no rice etc anymore but we do eat beans and lentils.

We eat alot of soup for breakfast but thats about 4 hours after I get up. I am usually up at 6 and I have juice, tea (green and herbal) and fresh fruit and nuts for the first 3 - 4 hours of being awake. I find that keeps my digestion ticking.

I cook oatmeal or soaked oats for dd everymorning as she needs something more substantial than me first thing.

I make soured muffins from spelt bread too. And we eat sprouted grain tortilla, and rice cakes.

I eat no grains for the evening meal though. Usually I eat no grains past about 1 pm.


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## alamama (Mar 21, 2005)

mamamillie, we don't eat wheat here and instead of ww pasta, eat brown rice pasta or lentil pasta. I've found spaghetti, lasagna noodles, rotini, etc. I actually like it better than the ww pasta.

We also do sprouted buckwheat pancakes and flatbread, sprouted spelt muffins, brown rice, quinoa and soaked oats.

For those who make muffins, do you use the NT recipe or have another one? I'd love more muffin/quickbread recipes!


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## akmeg (May 4, 2004)

I haven't been posting here lately, but I follow the discussion most of the time. I just wanted to chime in and rave about one of the NT recipes......Lettuce-wrapped Salmon! Yummy! I made it last night for dh's birthday dinner and it was sooooo delicious! I used the Russian stuffing and I used salmon steaks instead of a whole fillet. I just put a dollop of stuffing on top of the salmon, and then wrapped in the blanched lettuce. It was fairly simple, and I served it with sweet potato fries and a green salad! YUM!

Does anyone else have any raves about other NT recipes? I'm slowly working in the principles of eating this way, and I'd love to try more of the recipes. I finally just got the book a couple of weeks ago, after damaging the copy I had through inter-library loan! (luckily they didn't charge me!) Anyways, what are your favorite recipes from the book?


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## nini2033a (Apr 11, 2005)

please realize that the NT for ginger carrots has a typo. Instead of 2 T salt, it should read 2 t. If you use 2T it is way too much and you will end up throwing it out. This has been making the rounds on all the lists which deal with NT.


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## nini2033a (Apr 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alamama*
mamamillie, we don't eat wheat here and instead of ww pasta, eat brown rice pasta or lentil pasta. I've found spaghetti, lasagna noodles, rotini, etc. I actually like it better than the ww pasta.

I would love to know your recipe for the lentil pasta. I am trying to make my own now and have not yet been happy with the results.

For Baking, I have been either making blender waffles or using coconut flour for muffins.


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## alamama (Mar 21, 2005)

Oh, I wish I knew how to make lentil pasta! No, I get it at our health food store, it's one of our few "convenience" foods. Ditto for the rice pasta.


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## cjr (Dec 2, 2003)

I have been on the Eat to Live program and have lost 20lbs. I cut out all forms of dairy and at first I ate vegetarian, but after about a month put meat back into my diet. I have been modifying the ETL program to encorporate some NT principles into it. I have pretty much eliminated grains and I'm pretty sure that's what did it because I did not adhere to his recommended fat intake. I am out of coconut oil and need to gather the funds together to get some more. I have cut our meat consumption down to 1 serving a day served with loads of vegetables. I eat a ton of beans and have been cheating by using canned. I'm trying to get organized enough to use dried beans so I can sprout them before cooking them. Right now I have chick peas soaking to make the NT falafels, anyone tried them?

Anyway, does anyone make their own sprouted grain bread? I am looking for something simple with just spelt perhaps. DS is allergic to wheat so we use spelt and barley. I have found a great yeast spelt recipe, but I would like to make sprouted. I may try the NT compromise yeast bread and see. I'm going to a friends house tonight to borrow her grain grinder so I can stock my freezer once again with fresh flour, but I'm saving some berries for sprouting.

I have added some goats milk into my diet and I'm making yoghurt right now. DS is allergic to cow's milk, but he can tollerate the goats milk fine. I feel better not on cow's milk, but I don't mind the goats milk. I am working my way up to trying goat cheese. I bought a nice big chub of it over a month ago. I find the goat milk takes some getting used to. I am going to get my kefir grains out of hybernation and brew up a batch of goat kefir milk. I have discovered that the kefir actually agrivated my huge candida problem, so I am going to start up again very slowly.

When I was doing NT at Christmas I noticed that I felt really good, but I had huge problems with my cycle and Candida. I still ate a large amount of grain products even though they were sprouted or soaked. I was consuming a large amount of dairy (3-5 servings a day) and a large amount of meat a day. I kept up on my fermented consumption. In April I started the ETL program and cut out cow dairy, cut back to 1 serving of meat a day, started eating a ton of beans and raw vegetables, cut back on my saturated fat intake (didn't eliminate it, just cut it back to a reasonable amount a day), made sure to take a dose of flax oil/seeds or hemp seeds a day, and a regular serving of nuts/seed every day. I also started eating a ton of bean/vegetable soups made with bone broths. One of the big things on ETL is LOTS of raw green vegetables. I immediately noticed a huge change in my energy levels. I started to excersize 4-5 times a week. I also noticed my hair get thicker and my nails stronger (I used to be able to bend them forward without breaking them, and they always flaked). My Candida is gone and I had a regular/normal cycle with no pain for the first time in 6 years. My skin is also soft and my lips aren't cronically dry anymore. My point? I just wanted to share the balance I have found and the benefits I have experienced.

I am interested in recipe success stories. I made the carrot cake for DS's birthday and it was amazing. I making the falafel's tomorrow. I am also going to make the lentil salad using the basic lentil recipe. I will do that for Sunday since I need to go to the market and get some more bison bones for stock making. I would also like to try the apricot soufle for desert tomorrow. Anyone make the baked beans? I think I shal give those a whirl this weekend as well.

I made the fermented carrots with the recommended salt amount and YES it was way too salty. I must try it with the lesser amount of salt.


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## alamama (Mar 21, 2005)

cjr, can you say more about the kefir aggravating your candida? My dh is also sensitive to cow dairy and wheat, and we are pretty sure that candida is the root problem. We drink kefir from our own goat milk, and I always thought it would help fight the candida, not encourage it.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

I think, though, that the point is balance. What you describe CJR, is our diet too.

NT often gets the reputation for not emphasizing vegetables, but I don't see it like that. After being veg for almost 20 years before this change to NT its not hard to keep most of those healthy vegetarian habits while introducing things like soaking, fermenting, and bone broth.

We will go for several days with no actual meat in our diet, but I would estimate that I drink 1 litre of stock a day.

Since switching to NT philosophies in terms of food prep and balance between all foods I have lost 30 pounds. In about 6 months. And my thyroid is back to a functioning gland again.

I really believe in balance. All NT, or all Vegetarian is out of balance. A little of everything creates balance.

Congrats to you CJR for finding your balance.


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## cjr (Dec 2, 2003)

Quote:

cjr, can you say more about the kefir aggravating your candida? My dh is also sensitive to cow dairy and wheat, and we are pretty sure that candida is the root problem. We drink kefir from our own goat milk, and I always thought it would help fight the candida, not encourage it.
I have always had issues with Candida, especially during pg. I got my kefir grains in December and started consuming it on a daily basis, about 8oz a day with a day off once a week. Then I started getting horrible bouts of candida that were triggered by af (for me this was what triggered the candida to surface, which told me it was a real problem). I didn't even think it could be the kefir because it's supposed to help balance the candida within your body. In April when I went off dairy, I also went off kefir. My may cycle wasn't the best, but better and the candida wasn't as difficult. I did a cleanse in May and my last cycle was great. No candida, no cramping, no real pms and my flow was normal (instead of getting really anemic with a flow lasting 1 day, I had a flow that lasted 6 days). I read on the Weston Price website (I think that was it) that if you have a problem with Candida that you should start drinking kefir very slowly. 4oz every second day. This is so your body can adjust to the yeast in the kefir and allow the kefir to balance out the yeast in your body. I am going to start drinking it very slowly and see what happens.

Mountain Mom, when I first started NT I think I got carried away with the fact that she said that dairy and meat and fat was beneficial and good for you. I remember cooking a meal and using 1lb of butter for the vegetables and desert (baked pears). Now, I know that that amount of butter is not good for you. It's like "thank god someone is going to let me eat all this good stuff". I feel like I was endulging on those foods always thought to be dangerous to your health while neglecting those foods always known to be good for you. I can not do grains. I feel like poop and I gain weight when I eat them. I also can't eat cow's dairy, it gives me tummy aches and cramping which I didn't realize until I stopped eating/drinking and then the aches and cramping went away. I am eating a small amount of goat milk products and seem to be doing ok. DH and the kids want their meat at every meal, but I try to cook smaller portions than before. I never stopped using bone broths.

I am also going to order some coconut oil next week. Do you think I should send an e-mail out to the group to see if anyone else wants some? I am only ordering 1 gallon for myself and I will have to collect the money before placing the order, and should do so this Thursday at group so there will be a chance of getting it in the first half of July rather than Aug. LMK.


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

NT specifically states that 50% of your daily nutrition should be raw or enzyme-enhanced. I know everyone interprets it differently, but in my interpretation, veggies are hugely important, and I have increased my veggie intake a LOT since reading NT.
CJR, I've made the baked beans, they were AWESOME!! You'll want to keep checking the liquid in them though - I'm pretty sure I added more than recommended in the recipe overall. Next time I'm going to try making them in a soaked clay pot. Oh, now I wish I had beans soaking for supper. We're having fish. Oh well, should be good







But I'll have to do the beans soon.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

I am definately in for the order CJR, let me know how much I owe you. Yes, definately put a note out to the group. I know several women are keen to it.


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## TopazBlueMama (Nov 23, 2002)

Quote:

NT specifically states that 50% of your daily nutrition should be raw or enzyme-enhanced. I know everyone interprets it differently, but in my interpretation, veggies are hugely important, and I have increased my veggie intake a LOT since reading NT.
I agree. For me, raw includes more than raw veggies though, since with many veggies it's better to eat them cooked because of oxalic (sp?) acid and other factors. But l-f vegetables are very high in enzymes and an important part to include, and it only needs to be a little bit with dinner. Plus we do raw dairy, and raw egg yolks.

I used to be worried about grains because of all of the hype about them, but after time and learning and experimenting I've found that I do better with 1-2 servings a day. I rotate by breakfasts usually between oatmeal-well lately it's been the 5 grain cereal-all soaked of course. But oatmeal, eggs, or smoothies. The eggs I've been doing as omlets with lots of veggies in the middle. It's so good. I usually saute a bunch of spinach with onions until just wilted, then add tomato, cilantro, and a bit of feta or raw cheese. I love it.
Anyway, if I don't have my grains for breakfast, then I'll have a piece of sourdough for lunch or dinner or some homemade crackers. Or else I'll have rice or another grain with dinner.
I've found I have much better digestion with some grain in my diet. And also I need it for the extra B vitamins and I think it helps my nerves, mood, and energy. I just feel more satisfied with them.
Now if I have any amount of prepared foods or refined grains or sugars, then I'll definately feel like crap and gain weight.

It's good that we're all experimenting to find out what our bodies need. Amanda, that is great that you found immediate relief. I hope that your body can work things out.

It sounds like you're doing great, cjr! Keep it up!







I'm glad that you kept the bone broths in your diet. I hope that the kefir will work for you now. We usually go easy with it, about a cup or so shared between the 3 of us.


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## cjr (Dec 2, 2003)

Quote:

NT specifically states that 50% of your daily nutrition should be raw or enzyme-enhanced. I know everyone interprets it differently, but in my interpretation, veggies are hugely important, and I have increased my veggie intake a LOT since reading NT.
She includes raw meat and dairy products here as well. I searched for daily serving suggestions and could not find them. That was the part I disliked about the book. I think I'm someone who needs a bit of a guide, or I just go crazy.

tweetybirds2, I enjoy some sprouted and soaked grains. However, if I am trying to loose weight no matter what I do it won't happen if I am eating grains. I can maintain my weight beautifully with 1-2 servings a day, but I will not loose it. I have about 20lbs to go and then I will add a little grain at a time until I find that equilibrium to maintain my weight. I love bone broths. Soup just doesn't taste the same without it. I love the bison broths I get, very gelatinous and rich in flavor. It's been ages since I bought beef.


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## cjr (Dec 2, 2003)

I finally opened that package of goats cheese. I put some on slices of tomatoes. It was good. It was like cream cheese and suddely a whole slew of uses popped into mind. Goat milk has a strong bite to it, I find, and it has taken getting used. The kids don't mind it at all, but even this morning I find myself nursing the yoghurt because of that bite.

I made goat milk yoghurt yesturday. I used 6c of milk, 2tbsp of tapioca and slowly brought it to a low simmer. I then cooled it down in a cold water bath while I kept stirring, so I wouldn't get those gross solid floaties. I added 3 tbsp of goat yoghurt and poured it into my jars, leaving most of the tapioca beads in the pan. Then I incubated for about 7 hours (I think my outlet is pooched because it doesn't normally take this long). It turned out nice and creamy. Does anyone make goat milk yoghurt? How do you get it thick? It's not bad, but there are some tapioca beads in it. I'm made it to get cheese and whey, but had to have some for breakfast.


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

On successful recipes: We've made the basic muffins several times and they've turned out deliciously each time. I add cardomom and ginger to the mix. I also made the Indian lamb stew and it was very good. A definite repeat. I've had less success with things like pancakes and banana bread. I'll be making our first bone broth today from the organic free-range chicken we had this week. And I'm going to try making the fermented carrots also.

Someone asked what coconut oil everyone uses. We use this one and love it.

I've enjoyed hearing everyone's ideas about the balance aspect of things NT-wise and would like to hear more and also share more but dh and ds are calling.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

We make goat youghurt everyonce and awhile when the milk is one sale. I almost always make cheese out of it. I strain it through my youghurt cheese maker then I hang it in cheese cloth for a second strain where I add different combinations of herbs.









I also love the muffin recipe. The banana bread recipe works if you adjust the flour to 3 and 1/2 cups instead of 3. The sunflower carob brownies are awesome as is the musturd recipe.

I have made a bunch from the book, I will have to flip through when I have more time and post my thoughts.

I too, very much enjoy everyone's stories of balance and how they apply the NT philosophies to their lives.

So omega nutrition coconut oil is okay in a pinch? Just curious, as its very hard to find the others you all posted here in cannuck land.


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## toraji (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cjr*
Mountain Mom, when I first started NT I think I got carried away with the fact that she said that dairy and meat and fat was beneficial and good for you. I remember cooking a meal and using 1lb of butter for the vegetables and desert (baked pears). Now, I know that that amount of butter is not good for you. It's like "thank god someone is going to let me eat all this good stuff". I feel like I was endulging on those foods always thought to be dangerous to your health while neglecting those foods always known to be good for you.

cjr, ITA. I really do think that a lot of NT newbies fall in with this line of thinking. In NT, it really emphasizes over and over again that the animal fats that are so maligned are healthy and ESSENTIAL for you, and the recipes use loads of eggs, butter, and meats. Yes, vegetables are talked about but IMHO not with the same ferocity (is that even a word? My brain is dead today) as the animal products. I've seen people posting about their diets and saying "I make sure to have butter at every meal" but not "I made sure to eat loads of kale today".

I was actually going to start up a WAPF chapter here but when I downloaded the brochures to pass out to people, there was only one mention of vegetables in the entire brochure. The rest kept emphasizing meat and fat, which I agree is really important but not as much as I feel vegetables should be emphasized. Look at the Hunzas, world renowned for longevity and health, and they are mostly lacto-vegetarian. But they live in an extremely mineral-rich area, and the water that they use to drink and grow their crops is so rich it looks like milk, thick and cloudy.

HerthElde, I remember reading about the 50% raw thing but I think she was applying it to all raw foods, and even specified about raw dairy and meat counting toward that 50%. Now if she specified 50% raw vegetables, that would totally be a different story and I'd shut up right now. :LOL

I really think vegetables are a HUGE deal. Especially with our modern soils (even organic) being so poor, we need to eat loads of them. And even that may not be enough.

Now I totally don't want to make it seem like I am completely dissing NT, I do think it is great. But I always make sure to put my caveats about emphasizing vegetables whenever I recommend it to people because of what I feel are a few gaping holes in Fallon's interpretation of Price's work.

What I really want is a book that's a cross between NT, the Garden of Eating Diet, and the nutritional info from "How and When to be Your Own Doctor" by Dr. Isabelle Moser. I think that would be my ideal primer on nutrition. If you haven't read the last book, it's a really interesting read and really emphasizes the aspect of soil health that is lacking from the first 2 books (though I'm not sold on the idea of colonics that she recommends since they are so invasive). You can read it online here: http://www.soilandhealth.org/02/0201...oser00toc.html , the nutrition, diet and vitamin chapters are 5 and 6

You're right mountain mom, it's really all about balance. We are all so different and need different diets at different stages of life. Congrats cjr on finding your balance, and thanks for sharing your experience!


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

This summer we are volunteering and have bought a share with the local CSA project. They are a biodynamic organic farm. It is very interesting to learn how they keep their soil so nutrient rich. Their greens are absolutely amazing and rich and dark and so flavourful.

Finding a biodynamic farm is so worth the while for soil richness and mineral and vitamin content of the plants.


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## alamama (Mar 21, 2005)

Favorite recipes? We love the cortido and the corn relish, plus just tried the cucumber pickles and they turned out pretty well. I like the muffins, too, though mine never rise very well (that's with spelt soaked 24hrs). Would love suggestions on getting a better rise! We make chicken stock all the time, and like the coconut chicken soup for a snack.

toraji, I'm with you on the vegetable issue! I love what I've learn from the WAF about properly preparing grains, fermented foods, raw dairy, healthy sources of meat, etc. But I think a wide variety of veggies are also key. Jordan Rubin and Mercola both suggest diets similar to NT, but also suggest green vegetable juices. That resonates with me, as I've always felt best when we're doing veg. juices. I'd like to check out the Garden of Eating diet.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

We soak the spelt in either buttermilk, youghurt or a combo of youghurt and whey.

The stock recipes have allowed me to find vitality again. These are the biggest change I made when learning about NT.


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Yes, mountain mom, after re-reading parts of NT I found a wealth of info on the subtler aspects of this eating plan, particularly on the broths. It make real sense to me from a trace mineral standpoint. And things like gelatin (our chickens produce a ton of gelating when cooked) and the fermented veggies also seem deeply health-giving. I take what I can use and compost the rest, hehe. We do a lot of fresh and cooked veggies here, pretty much at every meal. I made some "kalesicles" the other day by juicing some apples, kale, carrot and ginger. Then we froze them and ds enjoys them as a snack. They're sweet enough to appeal and but the addition of kale, carrot and ginger boosts the vities a lot. And our favourite drink of choice here is water with raw ACV added to it. It gives us similar benefits as the kombucha but with less prep time and it costs pennies.

Our bone broth is sitting on the stove as I write. I'm hoping to make enough to include a cup a day for each of us.


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## cjr (Dec 2, 2003)

Mountain Mom, does that biodynamic farm take their produce to the Sunnyside market? I recall looking into it last year and I thought they took their produce to the market. I just don't have time to get into it this year, but I would love to buy thier greens.

I have chicken stock in the crock. I am following the NT recipe and I even included some chicken livers. I love that I can buy 4 carcuses for $5. I also bought 2 huge bags of bison bones which are FULL of marrow. I want to make jugs of stock to put in the freezer.

I have to put my beans in the fridge and make the falafels and baked beans tomorrow. We're going out for dinner tonight and a movie. So, excited. A date with my hubby.









Tomorrow I'm making dh some waffles, soaked of course, and some wonderful organic bacon that's just lovely and loaded with meat, and some scrambled free range eggs.

I find that I can only soak the grains for 12 hours. Otherwise it just gets too soured and the family won't eat it. I usually just soak my grains and make my regular pancake recipie and it turns out nice and fluffy every time.


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

Yeah, I do see what you all mean about the 50% raw thing including meats, cheeses, etc, and that cooked veggies are often more easily digestible. Still, I think when I read it, my brain automatically translated it as "eat LOADS of veggies" which was a good thing for me.
I also have read a lot of the little info snippets on each page, and they really seem to emphasize the importance of a lot of veggies in one's diet.
One thing that I feel is really missing is a chapter, or at least a small section, on nutritional value of herbs, in the form of teas or included in our foods or what have you, and how to add them or prepare them and the like. Many herbs are higher in nutrients than a lot of veggies, yet there really isn't a lot about them in the book, other than a couple of those info snippets that say they're very important. So yeah, a book with a bit more emphasis on herbs and veggies would be good.
The thing I always warn people about is the stance she takes on breastfeeding - she seems to underemphasize its importance.


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## toraji (Apr 3, 2003)

OMG solsticemama, kalesicles are genius! Must try some!

HerthElde, definitely a good thing that you read that passage as "eat loads of veggies". I agree with you on the herb thing too. I think parsley is supposed to be on a par with wheatgrass (don't quote me on that one though). And OMG I forgot about her stance on breastfeeding...that's another one I totally did not agree with too! Thanks for the reminder.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

CJR, the farm, bluemountain biodynamic, does take their produce to Sunnyside Market to sell. They have three wonderful varieties of bags of greens to choose from in prime season: Asian mix, steamer greens and flower/lettuce blend salad mix. They are so economical too. Be warned though they come very wet so take the greens out and dry them and then store in a fresh bag.


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## cjr (Dec 2, 2003)

So this was the first time I used livers in my stock. WOW! It smelled so good cooking all night. I made some chicken soup first thing with the chicken off the bones. I had to cut the stock in half because it was so rich. It's good soup. I am making lentil soup with the remaining stock tonight. I have baked beans in the crock with extra water







, and I will whip up the falafels tonight.

I made NT waffles for breakfast. This is the second time I made them and they were great. Crispy on the outside and soft on the inside. I only soak grains for 12-18hours because I find they get too sour.

Thanks Mountain Mom for the info.









I never realized how healthy herbs are. I'm trying to get a herb garden going, but the rain just won't stop.


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## mamamillie (Jul 22, 2003)

Hi mamas.
I got a new magazine in the mail yesterday that had a short article by Sally Fallon on coconut oil. It included 9 coconut recipes, some of which sound REALLY yummy.
Here is "Mary's Oil Blend," which she says is great for salads and cooking, as it doesn't burn as easily as coconut oil...also she says it provides firmnesss in mayo.
1 c coconut oil, gently melted
1 c expeller or cold pressed sesame oil
1 c extra virgin olive oil
Mix, cover, store in glass at room temp

The other recipes are coconut milk tonic, Brazilian Shrimp Stew, Coconut Smoothie, Coconut Fish Spread, Indian Vegetable Medley w Coconut (which sounds divine and I will make tonite), coconut rice, thai banana dessert in coconut milk, and coconut ice cream. I didn't know if these recipes are from her other book or if they are new to ya'll...so lmk if you want me to post any of them!


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## cobluegirl (Nov 20, 2001)

I found Jarrow Coconut oil at the HFS...is it good? they have good acidophilus so thought perhaps the cocnut oil would be good too...


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

When I make stock I add several types of root herb. Burdock, Dandelion, Yellowdock are all excellent for nutrient based issues and blood health, and liver health. If I am very low in calcium or I have a client with a broken bone, I will add a small amount of comfrey root.

For the last couple of hours of simmering I will add lovage, parsley, sorrel, chives, and sometimes oregano and thyme.

I made lemongrass stock to reduce candida issues from too many grains.

I also several herbs in my youghurt cheese.

The applications are endless for herbs.


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## mamamillie (Jul 22, 2003)

Really, mountain mom?







I want to ask you about this as I grow/use comfrey and I read somewhere LONG ago that comfrey is not safe for internal consumption (I am thinking it was because it is carcinogenic?not sure). I have been wondering about this lately, as I have seen some applications for it for internal complaints in my reading lately . SO you feel it IS safe for consumption?


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## cobluegirl (Nov 20, 2001)

so any recommendations for a good book that has all that healthly info in it about herbs and other plants? That is totally up my ally but I am not familier with any books.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

Anything that Rosemary Gladstar has written is stellar, practiculairly the Family Herbal.

Comfrey root may or may not contain pyrolizadine alkaloids. These can be antagonistic to the liver. It is not a consistent finding either. Some plants have higher levels but it is difficult to find the common demominator as to why.

With someone with a healthy liver, small amounts of the root, decocted not tinctured is safe, IMO. The leaf is perfectly safe for internal consumption.

You will find various research on this subject, it is best to familiarize yourself with how herbs work and how to prepare and use them. What levels are safe for therapeutic treatements, what levels for acute injury.

2 Tylenols regular strength would put more stress on your liver than a small amount of comfrey root decocted.


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## cobluegirl (Nov 20, 2001)

any idea on getting teeth to heal themselves? I had a tooth filled a few weeks ago and it still hurts..dentist says it will need a rootcanal (because he got too close to the nerve)..I cant afford a root canal....


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## toraji (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cobluegirl*
any idea on getting teeth to heal themselves? I had a tooth filled a few weeks ago and it still hurts..dentist says it will need a rootcanal (because he got too close to the nerve)..I cant afford a root canal....

Read this thread: http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...d.php?t=276453


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## mamamillie (Jul 22, 2003)

I didn't check that thread, but fyi, there is info on remineralization of teeth at the WAP website. I think I found info elsewhere, too...high vitamin butter is supposed to be very helpful, but it seems that children's teeth successfully remineralize better than adult teeth.


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## TopazBlueMama (Nov 23, 2002)

I'm growing cilantro, stevia, and basil in my garden right now, but I'd love to have a big herb garden one day!

Do any of you ever look for edible 'weeds' in your yards? I found some purslane growing, it's suppost to be really high in omega 3's. Oh and I know some people eat the dandelion leaves. Are those better eaten raw or cooked?

I liked EFLF (and yeah, mamamillie, all of those are in Fallon's new book-the coconut smoothie is sooo good, especially with mango instead of banana!) but I think I want to continue with it when fall/winter comes around. It has plenty of raw and veggies in it, but it's feeling more like a better fall/winter diet, and I'd like to try a more raw diet this summer.
Back before I opened my mind to WAP, I was always experimenting with more of the raw vegan diets, but I've found they aren't as sustaining for me, especially long term. But I'd love to try going raw NT style, including the raw l-f veggies, raw milk, cream, kefir, yogurt, and raw egg yolks etc. But also including my fresh veggie juice (with a little added raw cream it's suppost to be much better for you), sprouts, etc.
I can't this week since I'll be out of town, but I might try it out for at least a week or 2 next monday.

:LOL
I've always got some experiment goin on! oh well, that's how I learn.

Cobluegirl, i've never tried jarrow, I bet it's fine though.


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## cjr (Dec 2, 2003)

cobluegirl, I had a root canal for that very same reason. I figured since he got too close maybe he should pay for it.







Actually, I went to a different dentist because the orginal dentist told me that my tooth hurt because it needed filing. Two years later it still hurt. The new dentist immediately told me that the filling had cracked and I needed a root canal. That was ok because it was covered under dh's dental insurance. However he said that teeth that have had a root canal get brittel and break so I need a cap in 4 months. That's only covered by half dh's insurance and it's going to cost us $500.

I made the baked beans. We went out yesturday and so I after the beans came to a boil I put them in the crock and they were simmering for about 8 hours. We got home and they were hard and not cooked. So I left them on overnight and they are still hard. Some are getting soft, but most are still hard. Could this be the tomato paste? I hope they're ready tonight because they were on the dinner menu. I soaked them until they were hydrated, about 30 hours by the time I got to them.


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## TopazBlueMama (Nov 23, 2002)

My friend made the baked beans before, they were really good. I don't know what the deal is with them still being hard though. I had the same problem with split peas last week. I soaked them, but they took much longer to cook than they were suppost to, and still seemed hard.








Did you use whey or anything? I wonder if that would make a difference?


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

Typical weeds in a lawn and garden usually consist of chickweed, clover, plaintain, dandelion, yellowdock, burdock, sometimes comfrey. They are all very nutritious and yummy steamed, raw or juiced.

Look for books by Steve "the wildman" Brill. They are terrific!


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## arcenciel (Nov 26, 2001)

Here in Switzerland people go mad about the dandelion leaves when they are fresh green in spring. You see people out in the middle of nowhere picking them and restaurants always have salads on the menu at that time of year. They are supposed to be extremely good for you. I've never actually tried them myself though....

I tried the french style baked beans and they went hard 'cos I overdid them. I was disappointed after such a long time... I think I should have checked on them more.

tweetybirds2 - its interesting to hear what you are saying about raw as I have been hanging out on those threads too. Just thinking about what humans have been eating for thousands or millions of years makes raw make sense. But I don't think I could do without my raw milk and some meat - I'm thinking of keeping the bone broths, for example.

Not so long ago someone mentioned about some vegetables being better cooked because of phytates (was it that?). I am wondering how to find out which veg this might be important for and if steaming them or lghtly stir-frying is enough...

I started very gradually on NT about 9 months ago, but now I've given up sugar I see dramatic changes in my diet and I am really excited about experimenting with it and finding my balance.









I did the ginger carrots with the smaller amount of salt and I'm very pleased.


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## cjr (Dec 2, 2003)

I had no whey so I used the lemon juice. I have had terrible luck with dried beans so I have been using canned. I cooked chickpeas in my crock and they turned out great because of the slow steady simmer. When I tried cooking the chickpeas on the stove top they took so long, that's when I tried the crock. The beans taste great, but they are tough and I'm dissapointed.







I have read that tomato makes beans tough and harder to cook, so maybe next time I shall leave the tomato paste out until the beans are cooked and then simmer it all together?

I'm going to try the sourdough yeast bread tomorrow and see how that turns out. I have borrowed my dear friends grain mill.







I am going to be grinding all week to stock my freezer.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

I cook beans in tomatoes all the time. Hmmmm.

I will explain what I do and see if that helps.

I wash the beans well.

I put them in a large bowl and cover with spring water and/or tomatoes and a bit of whey and soak for 24 hours. Then I rinse and do it again for 12.

Then I rinse well and put the beans in fresh spring water and put on the heat at high, once a rapid bowl is achieved I reduce the heat to low and simmer for 90 minutes.

Thats my regular bean cooking regiment.

Sometimes I sprout the beans in my sprouter first and sometimes I will use my slow cooker and cook for 12 - 16 hours.

When you are cooking with tomatoes be sure you have enough to balance the ratio of bean to liquid.


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## steffanie3 (Mar 17, 2002)

I have heard that tomatoes basically stop the cooking process in beans.

I made the ginger carrots last night. It was my first ferment. Is it ok for the jar to be only half full? I also added a tiny bit of water to cover the carrots. I hope these turn out. I need to get some raw milk so I can make whey. I am going to try and call today, I am just not sure if I should ask them anything specific.


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

cjr, did you add more water while cooking the beans? You'd be surprised how much they need to absorb to soften.


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## cjr (Dec 2, 2003)

I added twice the amount of water because it was written that this recipe lacks the proper amount of water. I haven't had to add anymore water. I don't know what's up. I only bought the beans a couple of months ago, but maybe they were old when I bought them?


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## nini2033a (Apr 11, 2005)

I am not so sure which vegetables are better cooked than raw except for Spinach which is very hard to digest in its raw form especially for children, it should be lightly sauteed or steamed. It can block absorption of iodine if raw or unfermented, (p.44 NT) and absorption of calcium (p.192 NT) and phosphorus for children under 6 (P. 402/402 NT)


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## cjr (Dec 2, 2003)

OK, after 24 hours of simmering in the crock the beans are ready. WOW! I added some salt and about 1/4c more maple syrup. They are not soft soft, but they are cooked. The sauce is nice and thick and rich. The last time I attempted homemade baked beans they were not very good, but these are delish. For supper we are having baked beans and turkey sausage patties with steamed broccoli and asparugus, with a lovely green salad.


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## toraji (Apr 3, 2003)

Off-topic: Hey cjr, can you give me a breakdown of the ETL philosophy? I was curious about it to see if it would be good to recommend to a hardcore veg friend. Is it totally contrary to NT philosophy?


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## TopazBlueMama (Nov 23, 2002)

You can eat clover? I've got tons of that!

Glad the beans tasted good!

arcenciel-maybe we can try it out together! I'd definately still do broth too.

Speaking of broth. Are there any good places online to get good pastured bones?


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## cjr (Dec 2, 2003)

toraji, it is totally opposite of NT. If you follow all the he recomends.

No dairy/cheese/yoghurt/kefir
No meat
No sugar/refined carbs
1 serving of grains/starches/day
min. 1cup of beans/day
min. 1cup of raw greens/day
min. 1cum of cooked greens/day
vegan diet
unlimited raw vegetables
min. 4 fruits/day
no caffiene
limited fat, no animal fats
no salt

Now for me, I did a half ETL and half NT program.

I did eliminate all forms of dairy. Doing this actually helped me modify my dairy intake now. I was eating 3-4 servings of dairy a day and now I can only handle 1 small serving of goat dairy. I belive I may been lactose intollerant or I may have problems digesting the proteins in cow dairy. I have always have phantom tummy pains, but when I eliminated dairy they went away. I had tirimesu on Saturday and was up all night with tummy pains. Now I eat small amounts of goat yoghurt/cheese and I'm going start up some goat milk kefir.

I tried vegetarian with only eggs, but I need the animal and meat products. So, I learned to eat 1 serving a day of meat. The rest of my protein comes in beans and other foods.

I did cut back to 1 serving of grains, then upped it to 2 for convienience. Now, no grains. It's actually really easy to go without grains once they're out of your sysytem.

He does stress a vegan diet, but has modifications in his book for meat eaters. He is totally against cheese. He feels 1-2 servings of meat/weeks is sufficient for meat eaters.

He is big on flax oil. However, only small amounts. No animal fats at all.

What it did for me was give me a change to modify my diet so I was eating lots of fruit and vegetables, smaller amounts of meats, lots of beans, and moderate fat intake. It really allowed me to balance out my eating and determine those foods that work for me and don't work for me. It can totally be done in an NT fashion. He is big on nutrient dense foods, whole foods. This is so you get as much nutrients/fiber in as little calories as possible. There is a lot of food on this plan. It works even if you modify it to suite NT.


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## myjo (Feb 14, 2004)

Hello all, I haven't posted to this thread in months, very preoccupied with sick kids and all.

Anyway, I tried liver for the first time. Oh wow, it was







! I thought I might like it since I'm a real meat eater, but wow, no. Does anyone here eat liver regularly and like it? How do you fix it? I just dusted it with flour and fried it with lots of onions. Gosh, to me it tasted like bile, or old sick man's breath or something. But I know it's so good for you. I'd love to find a way to hide it in something so it's palatable. Any ideas?


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

We eat raw liver, shredded into orange juice. Then the liver mimics the pulp.


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## cjr (Dec 2, 2003)

I love liver. However it really does have to be prepared and cooked properly. I usually soak it in lemon juice for a few hours. Then I will season it and drege it in flour. Then I fry it on high heat for only a min on each side. Just until the juices start flowing. I take it off the heat and put it in a dish. I then microwave it.







I'm sure you could just put it in the oven on low heat for a short time. This method produces the most delicious and tender liver ever. Most people dry it out when they cook it and then it's gross.

Mountain Mom, I don't think I would be brave enought to eat it that way.

Kidneys are fabulous in meatballs. I grind them up and add them to the ground beef. WOW, they add so much flavor it's unbelievable.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Weston Price exposed the danger of root canals and recommended against them:

http://www.price-pottenger.org/Articles/Rootcanal.html
http://www.mercola.com/article/denta...oot_canals.htm


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## TopazBlueMama (Nov 23, 2002)

I about died when I tried liver for the first time too! It was awful. However, since I started NT I've gotten pastured liver twice now, and each time it has gotten a little more palatable. I think it's a matter of getting used to.
I'm going to start doing like mountain mom and doing the raw liver tonic stuff.

I tried the purslane and it's pretty good! No need to run back inside when we start getting hungry, we can just eat weeds!


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## nini2033a (Apr 11, 2005)

When we use a recipe that calls for ground beef, I mix 2 lbs buffalo with 1 lb mix of beef heart/liver in the recipes. I soak the heart/liver in lemon juice for a couple hours first then add it to the other meat and cook it however. We do this in meatballs, meatloaf, spaghetti sauce, taco meat, hamburgers etc. In hamburgers I add onion and garlic to further hide the heart/liver taste from the kids.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

Tweetybirds, way to go! Eat those weeds! Purslane is so yummy. I love clover leaf tea.

The raw liver drink is such a tonic. I think of it like that. I have one after my cycle is complete and a new cycle begins. Occasionally I will have another mid cycle or right before I bleed.

TMI??

:LOL


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## myjo (Feb 14, 2004)

How does the lemon juice soak help? And yes, my liver was overcooked and very dry. I thought of getting a meat grinder and making sausage with a little liver added. Anybody try that?


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## cjr (Dec 2, 2003)

The lemon juice soak draws out the impurities in the liver and changes to texture to a more palitable one.

Mountain Mom, why do you do the liver tonic at that particular time of the month? You are such a fountain of information!


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## toraji (Apr 3, 2003)

cjr, thanks so much for the summary! I like the emphasis on vegetables.

Re: liver
I really, really hated it when I first had it. We had to grind it up with other meats into sausage really heavily spiced to get me to eat it. Then DH started making it this way, and now I can eat it just fine.
Partially thaw the liver so it's still somewhat frozen but cuttable, about 1 lb.
Cut into paper thin (or as thin as you can get it) slices, set aside.
Slice 2 onions, saute in oil.
Add 2 T caraway seeds in the center (clear out a spot) of the pan, add some oil on top to fry the seeds until fragrant.
Add liver slices and cook until your liking (I like it cooked a bit more thoroughly as it seems to deaden the old man taste)
Add 1/2 tsp dried thyme, 1/2 tsp oregano, 1/2 tsp marjoram, sea salt and pepper to taste.

The trick is to get those really thin slices so that they get covered with the flavoring.

Now you can either eat as a dish or (my favorite) as a sandwich on homemade bread (pitas are great) with lots of dressing and veggies.


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## arcenciel (Nov 26, 2001)

Ooh. Thanks for all the liver ideas. Now maybe I'll be brave enough to try it. After I figure out where to get hold of some healthy stuff... I remember my mum used to cook it for us when I was growing up and I liked it. Don't know why we stopped....

I was drinking my usual yoghurt drink last night and I figured it might be useful to somebody else. It's my version of an Indian drink called lassi. I put in about 2:3 parts yoghurt to water and then for one cup add about half tsp each of ground cumin, salt and dried mint. If you use large sea salt it's better if you let it sit for a while and stir it really well.


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## TopazBlueMama (Nov 23, 2002)

Clover leaf tea..good idea-and also good idea to take the liver at certain times of the month.








I was thinking that perhaps a reason why people think that NT does not place enough emphasis on vegetables is because we hardly ever talk about all of the vegetable stuff we make! There are tons of great salad, soup, and vegetable recipes in the book too! I think that most of us just already have such an extensive background on vegetarianism that we've got the vegetable thing pretty much figured out already--it's the other stuff that we talk about all the time here that we are always trying to figure out how to do! :LOL

But I have made some of the salads and they are great.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

So true Tweetybird so true. We don't often have issue with getting enough veg into the diet, that comes second nature to me. It was getting my mind around all the sources of protein that was interesting when I adopted some NT philosophies.

I take the liver tonic to help my body cope with the hormonal fluxs in the body. It is super supportive to the blood and liver so that the hormones can be processed more effectively in the liver and not sent back to the bloodstream. I also consider it an intense shot of b12. Pernicious Anemia runs rambid in my family so I work at preventing myself from developing it. The liver tonic is one part of my female wellness program that I try to adhere to daily.


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## steffanie3 (Mar 17, 2002)

So what does a good liver look like at the store?
I have never bought one.

We bought a 1/4 beef, but didn't get the liver. I am guessing next time we do that we could ask for the heart and liver? Unless my DH's uncle takes them, he raises the beef and has it butchered.

That reminds me of pork. We had talked about getting half a pig, but I didn't like all of the preservatives in it. Could we just ask for uncured or something? How does that work with bacon?

Thanks


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## cjr (Dec 2, 2003)

I buy it frozen from the organic beef guys at the market. I have yet to try it though, it's downstairs in the freezer still.

I just made the best smoothie. Whole goat milk yoghurt, 2 large rainbow chard leafs, a big scoop of ground hemp seeds, 3 tbsp of organic coconut milk, and 2 bananas with some water to thin it out. Ds drank 1 1/2 large sip cups full. Ahhh, at least I started young enough with him. I got 7lbs of organic bananas for $2 at the HFS. They were lovely yellow with nice brown spots, perfect. I'm putting half in the freezer for smoothies and I'm going to try an NT banana muffin, not sure how I'm going to do it but I'm gonna try.

Last night I made the breakfast Turkey sausage for supper. We had that with the baked beans, steamed broccoli with a pat of cultured organic butter and tomato slices. Dinner was a hit. DH and DD were fighting as to who was taking the leftovers for lunch. That makes a mama feel good.

My lentil soup was also a hit. I soaked the lentil as per instructions. Then I sauted onion in some butter and olive oil. I added the lentils and chicken stock, plus water (about 1:1 stock and water). I sprinkled in some sea salt, cumin and a dash of cinnamon. I simmered it for about 2 hours and when it was finished cooking I chopped up some spinach and threw that in.


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## cobluegirl (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Weston Price exposed the danger of root canals and recommended against them:

http://www.price-pottenger.org/Articles/Rootcanal.html
http://www.mercola.com/article/denta...oot_canals.htm


Thank you for this...I haven't been getting the email updates again for some reason...am reading backwards in the thread....grrrr...

Yesterday I went in to have my last two teeth filled...and my jaw reacted to the anthestic..it didn't want to open...so the dentist said that he didn't want to work on me..told me to come home, not chew for 24 hrs and keep heat on it and not talk much....come back in a week and we will go from there.....
anyone have any ideas??? It feels better today but feels kind of bruised. dr. just thought that the muscles was spasming....


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## cjr (Dec 2, 2003)

Has anyone tried this product? I am going to order their kefir starter. I just don't want to waste a bunch of goat milk trying to get my live kefir grains to balance out right now. I was thinking of trying their cultured vegetable starter. I kind of need a fool proof way of doing it right now. At least until I gain some confidence.

https://www9.mailordercentral.com/bo...em=10&mitem=23


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

I really love Body Ecology's powder kefir starter.

But I know can be a sacreligious statement in some circles!!!









Actually I have to confess I have gone off the live grains for now and am back using the powder. For some reason the powder produces a kefir that is more effective and better tolerated by my system. I have no idea why this is. One box lasts over 2 months, so compared to the amount I was previously spending on (way less effective) probiotic capsules, this is well worth it IMO.

DS likes the Body Ecology version better and is tolerating it very well too (I'm using raw milk as well).

I'm not thrilled with the taste of the culture starter when I use it for veggies, but I do love it for sour cream. It comes out sweet tasting, utterly delicious. The L. Plantarum in the culture starter is supposed to be very hardy and beneficial.

I prefer using whey as a cultured veggie starter. I have cucumber pickles on hand at all times, they are easy and addictive. I usually use Stoneyfield Farms yogurt for the whey to get some L. Reuteri which has been shown in studies to increase the length and health of the intestinal villi.

Also, I have heard that Body Ecology will soon introduce a third type of starter, calling it "essential duo" ... acidophilus and bifidus.

And this last note of mine is somewhat relevant to NT...








I have my final appt. to remove the last of my mercury fillings on Thursday!!!







I'm so excited!!!







:

I hope this will finally be the end of a long, long, LONG journey to take control of my health. I'm hoping for a noticeable difference in how I feel (and perhaps the road back to maybe another baby after detoxing for a year?)
I have no doubt my mercury load contributed to our intestinal problems... and the more I read about it, I'd never want to conceive another child without doing something about them. Wish me luck!


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## cjr (Dec 2, 2003)

Thanks for the info. My kefir grains were very yeasty smelling and I believe it caused havic with my candida problem. So, I thought I would try the powder to see if it would be better. Goat milk is expensive and I don't want to waste it playing around. I would love to make my own sour cream. I thought about buying the stevia too.

I made the falafels and they were delicious. The kids wouldn't eat them because they are a brilliant green from the parsley, but they were very good. I had them with a knife and fork with mustard.









Quote:

I have cucumber pickles on hand at all times, they are easy and addictive.
Is this a recipe in the NT book?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cjr*
Is this a recipe in the NT book?

Yes indeedy!


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## mamamillie (Jul 22, 2003)

I finally got to Jackson to the Natural Grocery yesterday, and they didn't have and had never heard of Rapadura. Also, I was amazed that an organic chicken cost $16. Are you guys having to pay that much $$$ to get a chicken? There is no way I will be able to afford beef for my family, and I will have to continue to compromise w non-organic chickens (which is making me want to ease it on the broths). We just really cannot afford to start eating meat.


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## cjr (Dec 2, 2003)

Do some looking and phoning around. I can't afford the organic chickens either but I found a great free range chicken guy that has great chickens for half the cost. His birds cost me $20, but they are enourmous and feed us chicken for a week in every way imaginable. He also has great free range eggs that are not as expensive as organic. I talked to him about his farming practices and I'm very pleased with him so far.

We haven't eaten beef in ages. I much prefer bison. We have a bison rancher who is not organic, but free grazes his bison in 2 fields. He doesn't guarantee the age of the animal at slaughter because the animals decide when they want to enter the second pasture, which is the pasture they use to get the animals ready for butchering. The bison is great and much cheaper than the organic beef. 2 bison striploins are more tender and flavorful and cost half as much as 2 organic beef stiploins.









Also, when you find a chicken guy ask about carcuses for broths. I can pick up 4 organic carcuses from the organic rancher at the market for $5. They sell chicken pieces and sell the carcuses for stock. I also buy soup bones from my bison rancher. The bison stock jells so thick you have to cut it with a knife.

We only eat meat at dinner, and it's a very small serving of meat. I also try to stretch where I can. One large chicken will serve us Sunday roast chicken, sandwhiches for a couple of days, wraps and so on. I usually end up freezing some of the meat for future use. Plus I get stock and make chicken soup. I stopped buying small chickens long ago.

I never buy meat at the HFS. It's always so expensive. I try to buy it directly from the rancher either at a market or right off the ranch/farm.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

Also look for organic hens as opposed to chickens. I get organics hens for 5 bucks each. If you stuff with herbs and lemon and slow cook in your crock pot they come out nice and tender and make great stock.


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## cobluegirl (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cjr*
Thanks for the info. My kefir grains were very yeasty smelling and I believe it caused havic with my candida problem. So, I thought I would try the powder to see if it would be better. Goat milk is expensive and I don't want to waste it playing around. I would love to make my own sour cream. I thought about buying the stevia too.


my grains are starting to smell a little yeasty too...and as it happens I have had the 2 (and only in my life)yeast infections after my last two cycles...think their is a connection?
I have always heard the the grains were better then the powder..so I haven't tried it yet....hmmm....I also noticed in my prescription for nutrional healing that under candida it states to stay away from fermented items..wouldn't that include kefir? But under yeast infection it stated that yogurt and kefir would be a beneficial item to eat....


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## cobluegirl (Nov 20, 2001)

I get chicken breast at the store for about $5.99lb on sale...

I would love to find good fresh meat....but finances are an issue..I have EBT for the store...coops and private parties can't accept that.


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## Pilgrim (Dec 12, 2004)

Hi Rachael - I'm so sorry to hear about your dental distress! I have no idea of what to tell you - I've never heard of a problem like that before!

JaneS - I am really curious to hear more about your journey with the detox and mercury thing. DH and I are trying to prepare to ttc, and I am seeing a naturopathic doctor to help prep my body. (cycles still haven't returned.) Anyway, I was considering having my fillings redone and detoxing after, but DD is still nursing and this would require a mother-led weaning. The ND is not in favor of this because of DD's food allergies. I'm just curious about your story. Is it posted somewhere else? Thanks!


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## mamamillie (Jul 22, 2003)

Me too on the EBT.
I am deep in the south; I am prettty sure we don't have bison farms around here. I do see cows grazing everywhere, of course. I asked at a farm about milk and they said all the dairy farms around here closed down. SO they must be selling meat, then. I guess I need to knock at some more farms around here.
We live in a "wildlife management area" and there are PLENTY of turkeys. I have never considered hunting, (heaven forbid :LOL ) but it would be very cool if dh could get us tom turkeys. I can't believe we are starting to think about hunting, but we seriously are.

mountain mom, what do you mean, hens as opposed to chickens?







seems like the same thing...or are you talking about those "cornish hens?"

I can't believe you can stretch a chicken that far, cjr! A whole chix makes maybe 1.5 meals for my family not counting the stock (ya know, but then I always do buy small, cheap chix, duh, I guess that is why







) Those must be some amazing fat birds, though!









There's a guy right near me I have gotten yard eggs from, but they don't have grass. He has them in a large dirt pen. That isn't that great, huh? Maybe I could talk to him; he seems like a nice guy and he certainly has plenty of grass. You would think he would let them out into his garden...that is what I would do. I guess it would be hard to get them all rounded up.

Sorry, mamas, for such a long post


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

What is EBT?

I buy laying hens. They are one year old layers. Thats why they are so cheap. Most chickens are killed before 3 months of life.


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## steffanie3 (Mar 17, 2002)

What should my ginger carrots taste like? I tasted a little off the top and it just tasted salty and a little sour. Did it hurt that I used kosher salt? I haven't gotten any good sea salt yet, I thought kosher was a good type to use (before reading NT) and just bought a big box because that is what of a lot of recipes call for.


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## cobluegirl (Nov 20, 2001)

EBT is food stamps


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pilgrim*
JaneS - I am really curious to hear more about your journey with the detox and mercury thing. DH and I are trying to prepare to ttc, and I am seeing a naturopathic doctor to help prep my body. (cycles still haven't returned.) Anyway, I was considering having my fillings redone and detoxing after, but DD is still nursing and this would require a mother-led weaning. The ND is not in favor of this because of DD's food allergies. I'm just curious about your story. Is it posted somewhere else? Thanks!

Yes, see "Metal Fillings Replaced While Breastfeeding?" thread:
http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...d.php?t=241750

I didn't want to wean either for the some of the same reasons...but the more I read about the effects of mercury leaching at a steady state from fillings made me firmly believe this was a cause of DS's allergies (mercury in the gut kills good bacteria and therefore impairs digestion).

I cut his nursing down by half when I started amalgam removal (one quadrant at a time by safe protocol) and now we are down to bf'ing once a day. Both of us are doing wonderfully through it all, in fact, better than we ever have been.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cobluegirl*
I also noticed in my prescription for nutrional healing that under candida it states to stay away from fermented items..wouldn't that include kefir? But under yeast infection it stated that yogurt and kefir would be a beneficial item to eat....

Lacto fermented dairy and vegetables are very beneficial b/c they provide beneficial bacteria to gradually crowd out the candida. What fermented items are listed in that book? I think they might mean pickles and such which are fermented in the modern way with vinegar rather than traditionally fermented food.

And while we are talking about probiotics, I also want to cross post an interesting little factoid I came across today (in 'Power of Probiotics' thread). One teaspoon of homemade yogurt/kefir contains 15 billion organisms. Which I think is more than any probiotic capsule in the market. I know I'm preaching to the "power of good food" choir here but the visual is so strong.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

When starting a candida cleanse (a long term cleanse) for the first two weeks it is essential to elminate all fermented foods.

Then over the period of six weeks you reintroduce ferments one at a time with nutritional support.

If someone has an abundance of candida to the point that it is systemic, one would eliminate ferments for up to four weeks.

This includes all ferments, including yougurt, kefir and lacto fermented veg.

This is the protocol that was taught to me in my herbal training and that I use when counselling clients with candida issues.

It is important to find out how extreme a candida situation is, in order to take the best possible route to bring the flora back to balance.


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## Worldshakerz (Jun 16, 2003)

Hi, popping in here after months and months of just lurking. I posted probably once or twice before but since becoming pregnant I have been spending most of my MDC time over in the October expecting mamas board.

I read over all the posts for this month. It was great to see all the posts on balancing the NT diet with other diets and tweaking it towards your own needs. I find that I also gain weight when I eat any grains. Also, when I eat grains, especially in the morning it seems to cause cravings for that kind of food all day long.

Being pregnant I'm not exactly trying to lose weight, but I still try to stay away from grains. I do eat them sometimes, especially when we are out of fruits and veggies and need to use what's in the house. But I just don't feel well if I eat grains often. Which is sad, because I love them







. But I start retaining water like crazy when I eat them.

I have a whole bunch of grass-fed beef soup bones in my freezer that I'm going to pull out tonite to make some stock. I feel so lucky to finally have found a few great sources of grass-fed raw dairy, beef, pork. Also pastuered eggs. I found it about 2 months into my pregnancy. I drink a ton of raw milk, I feel like I can't get enough of it.

Like a lot of you have mentioned, I too feel so much better when I am eating lots and lots of fruits and veggies. We are running low on the moment until next payday in a week and I feel yucky. We do have some broccoli, cauliflower and turnip greens, that will get us through a few days. But we will have no fruit or veggies for about 3 days, I can't stand it.

Anyone know a good recipe for turnip greens? I've never had them before.

Oh, and I started taking CLO during this pregnancy. I actually had my Vit D levels tested. I was having muscle aches, bone aches, and fatigue (way before this pregnancy) and I feel absolutely amazing compared to my last pregnancy and even compared to when I wasn't pregnancy. Since I was so low on it I am still taking it although it is summer in Florida. I don't really go out at the peak sunlight hours, and don't even go outside everyday. When we swim it's usually around 6pm in the shade.


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## cobluegirl (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mountain mom*
When starting a candida cleanse (a long term cleanse) for the first two weeks it is essential to elminate all fermented foods.

Then over the period of six weeks you reintroduce ferments one at a time with nutritional support.

If someone has an abundance of candida to the point that it is systemic, one would eliminate ferments for up to four weeks.

This includes all ferments, including yougurt, kefir and lacto fermented veg.

This is the protocol that was taught to me in my herbal training and that I use when counselling clients with candida issues.

It is important to find out how extreme a candida situation is, in order to take the best possible route to bring the flora back to balance.

so how do you do this exactly....dd has been battling diaper rash since oct..so am wondering if perhaps the two are connected...I would like to try a diet but haven't a clue what to eat....


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

I know this has been discussed before but I'm curious again to know what supps y'all are taking. I'm off all supps right now. Tho I am drinking about a cup of bone broth a day with 1 tbs home-made gelatin added. Which I actually am beginning to consider a supplement after all the reading I've done on broth and the minerals therein. As well as 1 tbsp ACV daily. But I'm thinking I'd like to start taking an acutal mineral supp and then perhaps get back to either CLO or fish oil. And maybe some probiotic.

Anyone else?


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## mamamillie (Jul 22, 2003)

I don't really do supplements. I do make probiotic yogurt which we eat daily, but that's it for now. Wait, and lots of nutritional yeast for the B vitamins and ground flax nearly daily. I do want to up my magnesium intake. I would rather just increase my intake via diet, though...does anyone know what foods contain the most magnesium?


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## cjr (Dec 2, 2003)

I don't take any suppliments. I have some vitamin B12, calcium and evening primrose oil hanging around but I never remember to take them. I'm a big believer on eating a healthy diet and getting your vitamins and minerals that way. A diet with a lot of variety. I am considering taking CLO, but I'm just not willing to pay a lot of money for suppliments. Since I started working out and eating lots of fruit and vegetables, I feel very healthy and full of energy and I think that's a good indication that the balance is right.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

These are my "supplements".

I made youghurt, femented veg, etc for probiotics.

We have chlorella and spirulina daily as well as bee pollen.

We take hemp oil, cod liver oil, and coconut oil daily. Also olive oil occasionally as well as cultured butter.

I drink a daily tonic of ACV, a tincture of several herbs for liver support and female wellness and cayenne pepper and kelp.

I drink several varities of teas depending on my needs, such as high calcium tea, nerve support, digestive issues, blood and kidney wellness.

I take a homeopathic cell salts formula occasionally when my system runs down due to over excertion such as my volunteer day at the garden or a hike carrying a large pack.

AS well I have a raw liver "smoothy" once or twice a month.

I dry skin brush and practice hydrotherapy daily.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cobluegirl*
so how do you do this exactly....dd has been battling diaper rash since oct..so am wondering if perhaps the two are connected...I would like to try a diet but haven't a clue what to eat....

More than likely the rash is connected to yeast. This is a large, very vast subject. Here is a link to a great book to read. Please ask if you have any questions at all.

This crowd definately knows their stuff.









http://www.fungusfocus.com/html/book...andidiasis.htm


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## cobluegirl (Nov 20, 2001)

What is ACV??


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

Apple Cider Vinegar.... here is a link...

http://www.bragg.com/products/applecidervinegar.html


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## cobluegirl (Nov 20, 2001)

ah yes....hehe..I love that stuff....although if I am battling yeast I am not supposed to eat/drink vinegar....according to my book.....but I have also read from Bragg's that vinegar is good for yeast...what do you think?


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

ACV is the one exception to the vinegar rule. If it is unpasterized, raw and organic the apple cider vinegar is super beneficial to the system becuase it alkalizes the body. Candida thrives in a acidic environment, thus cannot thrive in an alkaline system. ACV helps to keep the ph of the body alkaline.

Amoung a trillion other atributes :LOL


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## cobluegirl (Nov 20, 2001)

one thing that I have noticed is that all the foods that my dd reacts too..are acidic...
tomatoes, oranges, grapefruit, lemons, pineapple, strawberries...etc...


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

How old is your dd?

The foods you mentioned can be aggravating to a developing digestive system. Do you have your dd on a probiotic supplement or is she having homemade youghurt daily?

Are you nursing? If you are you may find you have to eliminate the above foods too.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

I just read your signature line and it said she is 22 months.

Definately research candida based issues in toddlers. If you haven't already try to read through the power of probiotic thread, it is long but worth it.


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## cobluegirl (Nov 20, 2001)

she does get acidophilus...not daily..i am not that consistent...she loves the kefir and yogurt shakes I make...

What is the link to the probiotic thread...I think I have read that one but not sure...

I did notice that lately..when she had eaten one of the above..within 45 mins she will have a poopy diaper....


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## steffanie3 (Mar 17, 2002)

I made the flourless carob cake for DS's birthday. It tasted great, but was flat. It fell twice, I just put the second on top of the first. I frosted it with just whipped cream. My birthday is this weekend so we are going to try the carrot this time, carrot is my favorite anyway.

I am started some cucumbers fermenting last night. I am also making kombucha (?) tea. I am waiting on some kefir grains to get here. I am really excited to get these things going.

Hopefully I will be getting some goats milk to try in a couple of weeks, DH has never had it and he is the real milk drinker, but I figure I could make other things out of it if he doesn't like it to drink.


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## cjr (Dec 2, 2003)

The carrot cake is delicious. I made it for ds's birthday and it's soooo moist and wonderful.


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

I just made the gingersnaps. They are, in fact, cooling as I write. But, hehe, I already tried a couple. And they were














. I think, of the three types of cookies I've made, these are by far the best!


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