# Spanking Vent



## JoshuasMommy (Feb 19, 2004)

I was at the zoo today with my ds and my friend and her dd. We were sitting on the bench putting sunscreen on the kids when we witnessed something that still has me in knots. This 8 yo or so girl was excited about the animal she was seeing and kept repeating it's name like kids will do. She wasn't even that loud. Her father turns around and in a voice much louder than the child and yells to her to lower her voice. Now it was apparent by the way they were interacting with eachother that there was already tension between them. She continues to repeat the animals name as if she didn't hear him. Now does any of what I say sound that horrible? The father pulls her up (she is squatting to see the animal at eye level) and starts spanking her hard and like 8 times. She is squirming and he just keeps on hitting where ever his hand lands. She's crying and screaming no and falls to the ground. He is now yanking her up by her arms screaming mind you like an asshole at his daughter to stop yelling and do what he says. She is still reacting to be beaten and is saying no. He picks her up and THROWS her in the zoo double stroller with another child a few years younger. And continues to go back in forth with her no, yes, no, yes or I will spank you again if you don't do as I say. The mother says NOTHING. Does NOTHING. Respond in NO manner. The other couple they are with is speechless. And I am LOSING IT and trying to block my ds from witnessing what I would call ABUSE. I am shaking while I am typing this and reliving what I saw. I swear I wanted to scream STOP you ignorant peice of @#$%. Honestly it happened so fast it was like unreal to me. I couldn't even move...I felt like I needed to do something but I didn't know what. I still feel like crap. And my heart hurts for that little girl. What do you do in that situation? What could I have done? I just feel aweful and I am having a hard time processing it all. And I can't help but feel like there should have been something I could have done. But the mothers reaction bothers me as much as that stupid son of @#$&. I hate the way I feel right now because I am so angry and so full of hurt. Thank you for listening. Sorry I swore so much. Tina


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## JoshuasMommy (Feb 19, 2004)

What kind of a mother could stand there and watch her daughter be hit and humiliated like that? And do nothing? She didn't intervene or console her daughter just nothing. That really bothers me. I looked at my friend and I said if my husband (which would NEVER happen) did that to my ds I would lay his ass out...I still see her face and blank stare. I looked to her for some kind of help. Imagine what her dd must feel like? WOW! It just sickens me.


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

OMG that is sickening. And, so scary b/c the abuse cycle just goes on. I'm sure Mom was afraid to defend her child. I find it very hard to imagine any mitigating circumstances in this situation. Nor, do I think it would have been appropriate for you to step in--he sounded unstable and violent.

I wonder what you could have done? Since you don't have a name, etc., how could you report it? Someone like that definitely needs some interventions and help.

Poor, poor family.


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## ja mama (Sep 6, 2003)

Isn't that such a hard moment. If I have my kids with me, they are my priority. But if they aren't with me I am quick to step up and confront.
My heart goes out to you, and the family of that man who doesn't know a better way than physical domination and intimidation and fear.


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

I think I would have descretely followed them until they went to their car and written the license plate number down to use it to call CPS. BUT it could have taken all day. You're only hope would have been to cross your fingers that they would leave because they felt their child was misbehaving.

-Heather


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

Oh, that's a good idea!


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## Ione (Jul 22, 2002)

Quote:

What kind of a mother could stand there and watch her daughter be hit and humiliated like that? And do nothing? She didn't intervene or console her daughter just nothing. That really bothers me.
Yes, this bothers me too... but then so does the judgement against the mother in the way this is phrased... because, from the description of the father's behaviour, my first thought would have been: poor woman! what does he make her endure so that she is unable to intervene?

That said, it always really bothers me to witness scenes like that too.


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## Jish (Dec 12, 2001)

Try not to be too hard on the mother. We never know what goes on in other's houses. That mother might get that same treatment at home from her dh as her daughter. It's just a sad situation no matter what.


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## manitoba_mommy (Jun 20, 2003)

The mother may also know that if she intervenes it will make him angrier and make the treatment of the child worse.

MM


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## hotmamacita (Sep 25, 2002)

That is awful. I am sorry for those children AND that your children witnessed that.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JoshuasMommy*
What kind of a mother could stand there and watch her daughter be hit and humiliated like that? And do nothing? She didn't intervene or console her daughter just nothing. That really bothers me. I looked at my friend and I said if my husband (which would NEVER happen) did that to my ds I would lay his ass out...I still see her face and blank stare. I looked to her for some kind of help. Imagine what her dd must feel like? WOW! It just sickens me.

Um... the kind that knows if she intervenes she will either get worse or that it will make it worse for the child? The kind that has been beaten or abused so badly that it doesn't really register any more? For all we know, she didn't move because she was so bruised/beaten/whipped that it hurt for her to move. A man who would treat a child like this in a public place is probably much worse at home. Let's not judge her too much.

Unfortunately, there really isn't much you can do in these sorts of circumstances, especially if you have your children with you, because intervening in any way puts YOU at risk, and your first priority needs to be with your own children. The whole situation is really awful.


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## 3 Little Monkeys (Mar 13, 2003)

When I hear of things like this, it just makes me want to run in, grab my kids and give them a great big love - but maybe I'll wait until the baby wakes up.


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## LunaMom (Aug 8, 2002)

How sad for that little girl.

Why is it that almost every time we see a child being treated poorly - screamed at, spanked, whatever - it is a result of perfectly normal kid behavior? It seems that so many parents have these utterly unreasonable expectations of their children, and then get into a huge power struggle with them over such things. They seem to take it personally every time their child won't do exactly what they say.

Scary.

I wouldn't judge the mother, either. Who knows what that household is like. ***shudder***


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## jacksmama (Sep 19, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JoshuasMommy*
What kind of a mother could stand there and watch her daughter be hit and humiliated like that? And do nothing? She didn't intervene or console her daughter just nothing.

I'm sickened to my core to tell you all that my sister married a man just like this. As a matter of fact it could have been them you saw at the zoo..except my niece is only 5. My sis's husband is a mean spirited, *******, bigot a##&*[email protected] Example: He punished his dd for throwing a tantrum at her preschool by screaming at her on the top of his lungs, spanking her and then putting her in time out for 3 (THREE!!) hours.







And I can't even help counter his behavior because they live 1,000 miles away.

My sis used to be known as the gentle, sweet, passive one. I always thought she would be a great mom. But now, I'm literally horrified by how she lives. She's not beaten or abused, per se. But she's worn down. When you live with a mother#$%^&* it all becomes relative. My sis is not a fighter - so she won't argue with him. My BIL carries a grudge forever - going on and on and ON and ON to make his point in the meanest way. He'll make her life miserable. So she just climbs on board with his crappy ass way of life - and really, truth be told, she's come to embrace it and claim it as her own. I used to blame him for how their lives ran. But now I see that she is really a co-conspirator. Her parenting isn't as in-your-face awful as his, but trust me, she's no walk in the park either. He's lowered the bar and she's sunk down to meet him. GRRRRRR!









So, you know what?...I say BLAME AWAY. Life is what you make it - and just because this mom at the zoo may be a victim herself - this spin at the "merry go around of life" ISN'T HER TURN - IT'S HER KIDS - AND SHE'S AN IDIOT FOR LETTING IT HAPPEN - WHETHER BY FORCE FROM HIM OR BECAUSE SHE'S SADISTIC TOO.








I'm sorry guys for this long and angry post. Joshua'sMommy I didn't mean to hijack your thread







. I just carry around this cup full of tears for my nieces.

But in the end what can you do? I've tried talking my sis - to no avail. I now buy her books on child rearing - she doesn't read them. I've checked with CPS and spanking is not considered child abuse (at least in Texas). This brand of bad parenting is hard to prove as abuse. So in the end I have to view this all in a spiritual light - just to keep my sanity. My job is to be an advocate for them in any way possible, to be a loving, available presence in their lives and to pray, pray, pray for their safe passage through childhood.

I'm sorry you were and your ds were violated by watching this - because he sort of spanked you to - in spirit at least.


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## DebraBaker (Jan 9, 2002)

My heart goes out to this child as well.

As another noted it seems to be perfectly normal childish behavior. I worry not only about the obvious abuse but what this sort of suppression is doing to this child's normal intellectual curiosity. These children eventually shut down and become shadows of what they could have been in a nurturing enviornment. Her life will become avoiding her father's wrath at all costs.

So sad.

And I don't understand why people want to go easy on the mother. My husband was severely abused as a child and his mother sat passively and allowed the abuse to happen because she was trying to be a good submissive wife.

Among other things my husband was drop kicked across the room (in front of other people so humiliation was a facet of this abuse.) The mother sits by as well as the friends of the family.

Another time he was throwing gravel into the street. Both he and his brother were ordered to pick up a handfull of gravel and the father smashed their hands until they bled.

The mother sat by.

The mother shares the guilt for allowing it to happen. She could have put an end to the abuse if she had any backbone. This cad eventually divoriced her so she didn't have the security within a marriage she wanted in the end...so sad.

If we give the mom a pass why not give the dad, I would bet good money that the father was abused by his father when he was a child.

I would have been at least as upset as you. I would have likely opened up my big mouth and created such a scene that the police would become involved (I'm not saying this would have been the best thing to do, I like the idea of getting their id and reporting them to CPS.)

This brutish scene is repeated in public and moreoften in private.

One doesn't need to wonder why we have so many disfunctional people in our world.


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## Ms. Frizzle (Jan 9, 2004)

I feel like throwing up after reading that :-(


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## JoshuasMommy (Feb 19, 2004)

jacksmamma big







to you. I truly feel for you and your sisters children. It make my heart so heavy to hear of or see a child being mistreated. It makes me want to kiss and hug my ds and never let go of him. Too be honest I have thought about some of the posters and what they said about not judging the mother because we don't know what her life is like. And I have to say it doesn't change my opinion of her one bit. IMHO if a woman stays in an abusive relationship that is her decision. As much as I can't understand that...it is her choice. But in an age as ours where the ability to plan or not to plan a pregnancy is almost fool proof...Well that's where I start to have some pretty strong feelings. I don't think that a child should be raised in that enviroment. PERIOD! And the mother who doesn't protect her child or as you said sinks to the lower bar hasn't earned the priveledge of raising her children. That is just my feelings. I see my child as a gift not my right. The scary thing is that if that man treated his dog that badly it would have been on the news. No one would have hesitated to say something. It reminds me of a song by the 10,000 Maniac's "What's the Matter Here". Tina


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## pugmadmama (Dec 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DebraBaker*
...And I don't understand why people want to go easy on the mother. My husband was severely abused as a child and his mother sat passively and allowed the abuse to happen because she was trying to be a good submissive wife...

I do not think that acknowledging that the mother may also be a victim of the father's violence is "going easy on the mother." About 2/3s of all abused children are being raised in a home where the mother is also being abused.

Further, as if often the case, his mother may have actually prevented him from being abused even worse than he was. When I worked in the field of domestic violence, the number one reason my clients would go back to their abusers is that they were _terrified_ that he would get unsupervised visitation with the children. If the husband was willing to, say, slap the child in front of them, what might he do when he was completely unsupervised?

Too many times, I couldn't reassure my clients that their children would never be left unsupervised with the abuser. Courts are sometimes reluctant to saddle a parent with the financial and emotional burden of supervised visitation. Further, when the mother is the only witness to the child abuse who is willing to testify, and she is also seeking a seperation from the father, suddenly she's a "vindictive" woman who is not to be trusted to give unbiased testimony about her children. We were often able to get supvised visitation, but sometimes we were not and it was always a struggle.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DebraBaker*
...If we give the mom a pass why not give the dad, I would bet good money that the father was abused by his father when he was a child...

And I'm willing to bet good money that the mother saw her mother being abused. That's not a pass. It's acknowledging the *huge* impact that parental behavior has on children.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JoshuasMommy*
...IMHO if a woman stays in an abusive relationship that is her decision. As much as I can't understand that...it is her choice...

Before you decide that leaving a violent relationship is simply a matter of choice, I urge you to look into the large body of study that suggests otherwise. The dynamics that keep women in violent relationships can be very complicated. At it's most basic, the reasons can be summed up in the Cycle of Violence. Two very good books on the subject are *Next Time, She'll Be Dead: Battering and How to Stop It*. by Ann Jones and *When Violence Begins At Home: A Comprehensive Guide to Understanding and Ending Domestic Abuse* by K J Wilson Ed.D.

Beyond the very real emotional issues, there are many practical issues that can make leaving very difficult. Once a woman does decide to leave, the abuser often escalates the violence. So, a woman must have a very safe place to go and stay. She must have the cooperation of her employer and her children's care providers/schools. She must face her abuser in court, often over a long period of time. And so on.

Having worked with victims of domestic violence, I know it is possible for women to leave. But I also know that it is _very_ difficult. Women in these situations need our support, not our judgement.


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## DebraBaker (Jan 9, 2002)

I'll try to be a little less judgemental but I can't help thinking that if she is being abused (and I tend to think she is) her *choice* to stay in the abusive situation is also setting up the daughter to be abused by her future husband.

I know what you're saying is true (regarding unsupervised visits) and having a history of other people *reporting* abuse that they've seen would do nothing but support the mother if she ever has the courage to do what must be done to break these cycles of abuse.

Debra Baker


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## Shonahsmom (Mar 23, 2004)

Hmmm...

I'm leaving to pick up my dd right now so I can't go into any kind of depth... but, personally having survived a horribly violent domestic relationship as a young mother, I'm pretty offended at what I have read here and the judgements that are flying.

Its really sad.


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## jacksmama (Sep 19, 2003)

T AGAIN...sorry Joshuas Mommy!!!!!!!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shonahsmom*
... personally having survived a horribly violent domestic relationship as a young mother, I'm pretty offended at what I have read here and the judgements that are flying.
Its really sad.

Phew! It's funny how threads can take on a life of their own. I just sat here and thought about this whole topic for a good long while. It came to me that I don't know anything about your life or your previous situation _and_ you just might have some info that would give me a new view on my own judgements. I honestly say this in a true spirit of seeking understanding - not sarcasm or fakey-fake -- "I'm so enlightened that I'm willing to hear you." stuff.

I did want to let you see where I am coming from. As you surely know, whether you experience or witness it, abuse is a tremendous force. Just reading Joshua's Mommy's post made me feel like I was there and I shook inside! It is powerful and can stir up such strong memories and feelings. I know that my post is layered with my own life experiences - that are so deep to who I am. Of course no one can see that just by reading what I wrote. I'm deeply passionate about this whole topic - for reasons more than my own sister.

My own honest, soul truth is, that I could be that woman at the zoo. I have lived an early life that, for all intents, could absolutely have produced someone who capable of being either an abuser, a victim or both. And yet, as sure as I sit here typing, I am none of those.

The two things that stood in the way of my living an abusive and unsuccessful life was 1) the ability to differentiate love from pain and 2) personal choice. When I was young and desperate, caring from most anyone was welcome. Often at this point, abusers can fly in under the normal radar. I met an older man who loved to take care of me. He was my dream: Yale graduate, great job, BMW, condo in Aspen. He promised me a great life. Now I don't really know why...but he gave me the _feeling_ that he was capable of abuse...he never did anything overt or physical - but he always had a little verbal jab for me or he would feel out my vulnerabilities and put me down - usually as a joke. Over time there was a point where I began to feel real discomfort and confusion. I looked ahead and saw where a relationship with that person would lead. I saw what type of dad he might be. I didn't like what I saw. It was hard to leave. I did love him and I wanted that life desperately, but it was a choice...my choice. So, I left. No matter the cost, I chose to say NO to abuse. Especially considering where it is I come from and how hard I've worked to correct those patterns of behavior etched into my little brain...choosing someone like that is incomprehensible to me. That is why I blame my sis and anyone for allowing or joining in on being terrible to her own children. I've walked through the fire of this - all while growing up into my late teens and then in my relationship - and I got out..just by choosing to do so. It was, for me, that simple, no matter how complex it seemed at the time.

So, doing the right thing by your children is just a simple choice - so it seems to me. And yet you're offended.







What am I missing here that makes this not just a simple choice?







I'm truly sorry you're upset. Lord knows we all need to be more understanding...and I would be on the TOP of that "needs to understand" list.


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## DebraBaker (Jan 9, 2002)

I agree with much of which Sandra said.

I could have been that woman in the zoo as well. In earlier years my husband was going down the path of continuing the cycle of violence but *I* would not allow this to happen to my children. I understand all too well how hard this is for a woman. I understand the risks, the fears and my heart goes out to this mother but the right thing to do is to *overcome* these challenges and protect your own children.

Thankfully my dh overcame his dismal childhood and I cringe and shudder to think of what could have become my family.

Breaking familial cycles of abuse is darn hard work but it *must* be done or we leave the work for our decendents.

Debra Baker


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## sparrow (Nov 19, 2001)

my MIL volunteers in a DV shelter. She has been there, and made choices that got her out of that situation. That being said, it still took her 5 years to break from her first husband, and get out of a very bad situation. She is a strong, determined woman. Not all who find themselves in DV situations can gather the resources, whether external, (financial, support network, family pressure) or internal (self-confidence, strength, determination). Abuse usually wears down the internal resources. It can also put you in such a state of fear that there is no possibility for clear thinking.

I agree that this is an incredibly sad circumstance. I also recognize that if the cycle of violence isn't broken, it is likely to continue. I have no suggestions, but i do have compassion for all of the people who find themselves in such a dark place, especially the children, who have even less resources to help them escape that reality than the battered spouse does,


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## pugmadmama (Dec 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jacksmama*
So, doing the right thing by your children is just a simple choice - so it seems to me. ...What am I missing here that makes this not just a simple choice? ...

I wonder, did you read my post? Have you read the books I recommended?

You didn't have children with that man. You had an internal voice you could trust. What about women who've already got children? Whose internal voices are completely silenced after years of being abused as children or witnessing themselves? Do you really believe that it's as simple as "if everyone would just show the good judgement I did, this problem would be solved?" Have you ever shown poor judgement? Ever? Well, I have. And so while I have never been in an abusive situation, I can clearly see how easily it could happen to any woman.

Sparrow said it so well:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sparrow*
... Not all who find themselves in DV situations can gather the resources, whether external, (financial, support network, family pressure) or internal (self-confidence, strength, determination). Abuse usually wears down the internal resources. It can also put you in such a state of fear that there is no possibility for clear thinking...


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## lifetapestry (Apr 14, 2003)

People on both "sides" have each made really good points that I agree with on different levels. What I want to add is this:

I have worked with domestic violence victims for fifteen years, and I now do research, professional trainings, and work on legal cases related to domestic violence (typically defense work with battered women who have killed their abusive mates or with prosecutors who are trying to prosecute men who have killed their wives). I have learned one really important thing through this kind of work: you can never understand why a battered woman (and I would bet that she is battered, from the description of the abuse of the little girl) makes the choices that she does unless you understand the culture of her relationship with the abuser. And just like any "culture", looking at it from the outside and thinking you understand what's going on (a mother who is failing to protect her child from her father abusing her) will often mislead you. You have to look at it from the inside, with her knowledge of what this &*^$ is like and what her experience with him has taught her.

For example, I could easily envision a scenario where this exact same behavior (standing by and watching the father "spank" the little girl) could actually be protecting her daughter. Suppose there had been a prior incident where the family was out in public and the father "spanked" her and the mother spoke up or tried to stop the father. If he's like most batterers, he would have bottled up his fury at her interference in public, but let her and the kid have it when they got home. He gives the little girl the "spanking" she should have gotten out in public and then he smacks her around some more to teach her mother not to interfere. And then he smacks the mother around in front of the little girl to teach her to take her punishment when it's given to her. If that's the past, what do you think this mother is going to do the next time they're out in public? Nothing-- because that what is going to protect the girl best.

Why doesn't she just leave him? Someone else's post covered great ground here-- I would just add that many battered women don't leave because they're scared of what he'll do if she does. The statistics on domestic homicides report that 2/3 of the battered women that are killed are killed after they've left their abusers, not while they are actually still with them. When I go back in my anecdotal memory bank to those heartbreaking multiple murder/suicide cases where kids are killed by dad, it's always after the mother has left. Leaving isn't always the safest thing to do, although many people in our society think that this just solves the problem. But unless you can get really far away and he can't track you down (I could share some great stories about the lengths batterers can go to to track down their victims, including renting an airplane to fly over an area to identify her car), the same problem still exists (an abusive man) who now has the added incentive to make you pay for the treachery of leaving him.

I'm not saying that every battered woman always acts in the best interest of her child and tries to protect them whenever possible. Some battered women are the definition of bad mothers and truly do fail to protect their children (the mother described in the OP could be one of these). But other battered women often have to choose between bad choices to protect their children, and you can't know what those choices are unless you've had her experience and history with that particular abusive person. That's part of what makes domestic violence such a poisonous psychological dynamic in relationships, because things can really get turned all back-asswards. Only by being involved in this work for so long can I envision that failing to protect your child in public might actually be the best choice for that child.

Karla


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## JoshuasMommy (Feb 19, 2004)

Karla,
Thank you for that insight. But it doesn't make it any easier. My mind and my heart can't make sense of any of it...How do we stop the cycle? I am sure you know the statistic on abused children growing up to abuse. I am sure they are high. How do we help these woman and children. How do I help? When I wrote that post I was just raw with emotion. And unfortunately, I then came across another post under activism called Whipping Babies. My head has been spinning for days...I wish I NEVER saw that post. I sat there sick to my stomach and read all 10 pages. But the worst mistake I made was going to the website one of the posters dug up. And now I can't stop thinking about what I have had the misfortune of learning and witnessing. It leaves me so sad to think that there are people who not only abuse but teach others to do the same. Have you ever watch Men In Black? I want someone to zap me with light and erase my memory. I am just physically ill. I haven't slept well since all of this and I just can't stop hurting. Yesterday I was in the mall with my ds and as we sat in the food court I found myself looking at every child and their parent wondering "is that bruise from abuse"? Is that an abusing parent? This has been the worst week of my life...


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## lifetapestry (Apr 14, 2003)

Tina,

I think that witnessing abuse of ANYBODY is traumatic, and I am not surprised that you're feeling some emotional turmoil. This is perfectly normal.

What can you do? Actually, you can do a lot. If you have money to donate to a charity, find out where your local domestic violence shelter is and give money for children's services. If you don't have money to donate, they are almost always in need of children's items; donate your children's outgrown clothing and toys.

If you dont' have money to give, how about volunteering at your local domestic violence shelter? You can play with the children, answer the hotline, help victims go to court, and many other useful tasks and intangible kindness. In my experience, the victims and children at domestic violence shelters are most in need of simple kindness, someone to care about them and to talk to them like they are human beings. If you don't have this kind of extended time to give, call your shelter and find out how you can volunteer for shorter, time-limited projects. You can, for example, host an afternoon fundraising party for your friends and ask them to donate money for children's services. Or you can help write a grant to increase funding for children's services.

The other thing you can do is educate yourself. In a way, you've already been educated. Read more about domestic violence. You might be inspired by the stories of how children growing up in domestic violence homes find their way out and then go out and save the world, like Mark Wynn. Mark Wynn is the former head of the Nashville Domestic Violence Unit, where he (near single-handedly) made victims and children safer by developing a tough and innovative manner of arresting offenders and making sure that they were prosecuted by the courts. I can't even begin to count the number of lives he saved through his work. Read some more about him here:

http://www.nashvillescene.com/cgi-bi...tory&version=1

You can also see his website at www.markwynn.com

You know, reading back on the description of your current emotional reaction, I realize that I once felt that way. Right when I started working in domestic violence (I was volunteering, helping victims go to court for protective orders). It is overwhelming to allow yourself to realize that this kind of stuff happens all the time. At some point, rather than feeling overwhelmed (or feeling jaded), you find a way to direct your feelings towards positive action.

As Margaret Mead said (some thing like) -- don't let yourself doubt that a small group of committed individuals can save the world-- in fact, it's the only thing that ever has.

Thousands and thousands of domestic violence workers and volunteers (and the communities that support them) are making a difference. In the last 10 years, the rate of domestic homicides has declined by more than 20%. The overall rate of misdemeanor domestic assaults has also declined, as much as 50%. At the same time, more victims are seeking help from shelters and courts than ever before (and thus not suffering in silence). You can make a difference and as you do it, you won't be alone.

I believe that when I'm done with my work in domestic violence, the world will be a safer place for my son, and for all the world's children. As we reduce and ulimately eliminate domestic violence, we will also reduce substance abuse, school dropouts, teenage pregnancies, etc.

You can make a difference. All you have to do is make it.

Karla


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## JoshuasMommy (Feb 19, 2004)

Karla,
Thank you for the great suggestions. I visited my local domestic abuse agency on line. I have printed my application for becoming a volunteer and found the tele # of the person I need to contact. They are in need of volunteers for child care (ages infant to 3 yo). So that the mothers can attend meetings. I am inquiring to see if I can bring my ds who will be 3 in July to volunteer with Mommy. I think it will be a great learning experience for both of us. Do you have any thoughts on this? Is this a wise thing to do?

I visited the links you suggested and found much inspiration. Wynn's is an amazing person, thank God for him...Although I am still having a hard time absorbing everything that this past week has brought to me...I atleast now feel some excitement that I may be able to do good and hopefully make a difference in a childs life. I started feeling like I was drowning in my saddness. And I want to thank you for the life line. I will keep you posted. Thanks again! Tina


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## jannan (Oct 30, 2002)

i would've gotten on my cell phone and called 911. it was an emergency and a child was in danger.


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## Annie (Feb 14, 2004)

I can honestly understand being mad at the mom for not doing anything..but ..

IMHO opinion, having grown up in a similar situation, the mother's behavior isnt from lack of backbone...usually they are *literally* afraid for thier lives. Any behavior remotely like standing up for oneself or the child, and mom and sometimes child ends up in the ER.
The worst was and usually is when moms leave. My mom left my dad because she was afraid he'd eventually kill me and my older sister. She ended up with a broken nose and ribs, and out last memory of our father was running through the woods, dragging a our younger sisters and 2 yo brother, trying to avoid being shot by his rifle! And it didnt end there. He kept trying to track us down, and we ended up in a string of abuse shelters for over a year. I was about twelve/thirteen at that time.

That's why moms are afraid to stand up for themselves and their children. Because it can get a WHOLE lot worse in a very deadly way. I do thank my mom for having the imazing courage to get us out of there.

I'm sorry to make this post about me when it's not supposed to be..just trying to illistrate a point. BTW after much counseling ive dealt with it, moved on ...it was life...i just thank god my DH is SOOO wonderful!


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## pia (Jul 28, 2003)

I had a similar experience to JoshuasMommy a few years back in Sinagpore - a country where spanking is an accepted way of disciplining kids.
My ds was 2 at the time and we had just exited ToysRUs when we saw a mother slapping her son (prob around 2 too) in the face. The harder he cried - the harder she slapped - and it didn´t seem to end. He just kept crying out "mamma". The father held him in place for the mother to slap! I didn´t want my ds to see, but at the same time I felt the need to do something! I just didn´t quite know what. I was shaking and on the verge of tears - but decided I had to say something. I get angry and sad just thinking about it now!!! I could only imagine why all the anger - outside a toyshop I made my deductions! Anyway I went over and told the mother that her son was crying out for her - and that children are not for hitting - EVER. I tried to say it gently and to tell her that I understood that it was frustrating sometimes to have a little boy who wants everything in the shop! She gave me a look that could have killed! But she stopped slapping. I tried to comfort her AND the child. I didn´t say too many word - thinking that being gentle was going to be adequate - I certainly didn´t want to lecture her. Haven´t I also felt extremely frustrated and angry - yes!
Well - to cut a long story short - she ended up crying, hugging her son - the father thanking me (he just said "thank you"). I hugged them both and left. It´s hard to explain what I felt afterwards - relieved but still in shock, still angry and sad! I realised that I may not have stopped all beatings/spankings/slappings that went on behind closed doors, but maybe it gave them something to think about. Maybe one day they did realise that they would never ever get anywhere by treating their child this way.
I am glad I intervened, and will do it in a second again if necessary. Hope this story can help someone. I think it´s important to see all sides of the case - the feelings of all people involved are all valid, it´s the actions that are not.


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## lifetapestry (Apr 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JoshuasMommy*
Karla,
I visited my local domestic abuse agency on line. I have printed my application for becoming a volunteer and found the tele # of the person I need to contact. They are in need of volunteers for child care (ages infant to 3 yo). So that the mothers can attend meetings. I am inquiring to see if I can bring my ds who will be 3 in July to volunteer with Mommy. I think it will be a great learning experience for both of us. Do you have any thoughts on this? Is this a wise thing to do?

Hey Tina,

That's so great! I hnope you find the volunteer experience a very rewarding one. In my local shelter, volunteers do bring their children routinely if they are doing child care, because it makes sense to (as opposed to answering the hotline, when it might be hard to run after your toddler and talk on the phone at the same time.

I think it would be wonderful to bring your son along. Although it might be hard for him to understand that some people can't live in their homes and that's why they are in the shelter (if he asks questions like this), it will be an opportunity for him to show some kindness to children in need as well. I also think it's great for him to see his mom make a difference, and that will inspire and impress him (even if he never says anything about it).

In my experience, children at the shelter really run the gamut in terms of their behavior. Some are "perfect" children because they've had to be super obedient in order to survive, or they are little adults to younger children because they've had to take care of their younger siblings. Some have no boundaries at all and run to everyone who enters the room for a hug and a kiss; they just want to be loved on. Others are aggressive or mean, or manipulative.

I also just want to say good for you. You took an experience that you had that was so distressing and negative, and are turning it into something positive. Best wishes and feel free to PM or email me if you want.

Karla


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## sadie_sabot (Dec 17, 2002)

I like to try to figure out what i would do in such situations, so that if they come up I have a ready response. In a situation like this, you want to protect your own kids and your own self, but you also want to itervene in a way that will stop the abuse without causing more, right? I also think, we are mostly powerless to stop the abuse entirely, but we can let the vicitm know that other people don't think it's ok, that other people think she should be treated with respect. Now, I'm not sure how to do that. Trying to put myself in that position, I would probably put all of my attention into blocking my dd from seeing it. If my dd wasn't there, and I was NOT alone, maybe shouting? Like "oh my god, stop," really really loud, so that LOTS of other people would pay attention (thus providing yourself with some protection too?). dunno.

I recently saw a Movie that contained some pretty horrible DV, and I ahven't been able to stop thinking aout it.

all of this also makes me think: THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG HERE FOLKS!!! and I think it is PATRIARCHY. As long as men continue to reach adulthood with the idea that women and children are theirs, are property, are to be controlled, this is going to keep happening.


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