# Cesarean Birth Recovery & Support Thread 10 (April/May 2004)



## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

This is a the Cesarean Support and Recovery Thread. This is not a thread for debate or judgement of our choices or necessity of cesarean.

Thanks!


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Cesarean birth plan

As this is a planned Cesarean birth we are looking forward to a positive birth experience. We want to participate in this birth to the fullest. We have listed our preferences below, these decisions have been made after research, consultation, and thought. Therefore your help in attaining these goals is very much appreciated.

We would appreciate preoperative blood work and tests to be done on an out patient basis, and hospital admission on the day of the birth.

My sister, *******, is to stay with me the entire time, even for procedures and administration of anesthesia.

I would like an epidural for pain relief with Duramorph. < this I changed to the PCAPump, which left the epidural cath in my back where pain medication was directly put into the spinal column, it was like having a walking epidural and I could dose myself before moving around or nursing)

I would like the catheter put in after anesthesia is administered.

We do not wish to have medical students present during our cesarean. < I did have a student nurse and would gladly take another one, they pampered me!)

My arms are not to be strapped down unless general anesthesia becomes necessary during an emergency.

We would like the option of viewing the birth either by lowering the screen or positioning a mirror.

Kim would like a verbal description of the birth as is occurs. Kim welcomes conversation during the process. (while some people want quiet, I didnt. That scared me last time. I want some conversation)

We would like to take photos as we did of our first child. (we did not do video, but you can add this. my pictures are graphic)

Kim would like to see the baby immediately after birth if at all possible. She would also like to be given the baby or have it held near her in the OR. (my frist csection I did not get to see my baby)

No mind altering drugs are to be administered without Kim's expressed permission. I am aware that some hospitals routinely sedate the mom for the repair portion of the surgery. It is important to Kim not to feel drugged or be unable to remember the events of the birth. We wish that no pre-op or post-op drugs be administered that cause drowsiness or sedation.

We would like our baby to be with us in recovery. Kim wishes to breastfeed immediately. Please do not give our baby bottles of formula or water and no pacifiers. ( I had Jack with me 15min after he was born, I actually was sitting in bed on the phone)

Kim does not want to be deprived of liquids or food after her cesarean.

Please remove Kim's IV and catheter as soon as it is no longer medically necessary. She wishes to get up and move after the birth of our baby as soon as possible.
Kim would like to be promptly discharged as soon as she is well enough.


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## Kiki Runs (Oct 7, 2002)

Not sure if this is the right place for this, but I'm wondering if there are other mamas who are still trying to "get over" having a c/s (unwanted or unnecessary).

Will is a little over a year now, and I'm still not quite "okay" w/his birth. I have seen a counselor (I have seasonal depression, and it combined w/my guilt/resentment/negativity about the c/s to inspire me to seek counseling). I'm feeling better about his birth now than I have before, but I'm still angry and frustrated about it.

One of the most frustrating aspects is other people's reaction to my c/s (Will was twelve pounds, so I get the "Oh, well of COURSE, you HAD to have a c/s - he's too big!" type of response). Even my counselor, while not being quite so insensitive, hinted around and tried to get me to explore the possibility that Will was just "too big" for a vaginal birth. While I understand that in some cases it is physically impossible for a vaginal birth to occur, I feel very strongly that mine is not one of them.

Although I wanted a very non-interventionist birth (and my OB SAID he agreed), I ended up having a cascade of interventions which I believe led to the c/s. A lot of my guilt is that I agreed to the interventions, and a lot of the anger is b/c I was pushed into them (repeated hassling by nurses/docs) and DH was not a strong support for me in resisting the interventions.

I woke up Wednesday morning at 5AM, having contractions five minutes apart. I timed them for quite a while and they didn't get any closer together. They weren't very strong or painful, however, so I went about my day. At 9, we went in to the OB's office - I wanted to make sure they were "real" contractions, not having BH throughout my pregnancy I didn't really have anything to compare them with. OB confirmed I was in labor and recommended I go home and then head over to the hospital later that afternoon. We did some shopping and the contractions didn't get any stronger or closer together. Late in the afternoon, the contractions stopped for a couple hours. Will wasn't moving around, either. I wasn't TOO concerned about that, as Mom had told me that when she went in to labor w/me, I "battened down the hatches" and didn't move at all.

However, after two hours of no contractions and no movement, I started to wonder about Will (not urgent "something's wrong" concern, I just wanted to be certain he was fine). After we ate dinner, I went to the hospital, intending simply to check Will's heartbeat and confirm that he was okay. On the way to the hospital, the contractions started again, a bit stronger. We had to check in to OB in order for them to even listen to the heartbeat. Of course, Will was fine, but DH talked me into staying.

I wasn't very dilated at that point (about 3 cms), and the contractions weren't bad, but got stronger. I walked and got in a tub, which helped. The OB asked if I wanted him to break my water and I declined (Hello! It's in my birthplan, which I went over ad nauseum, that I don't even want to be asked!). That was around 9, I think. I continued laboring, and the nurse kept asking if I wanted the doc to break my water. Kept saying no (it was a hard situation for me - the nurse was the same one who had taught our pre-natal class, so I didn't feel like I could be as b!tchy as I would have been otherwise since I "knew" and liked her. Looking back, it p!sses me off, b/c she KNEW how important it was to me to have a non-intervention birth. What was she thinking?).

She KEPT asking, even saying (at around eleven, I think) that if I wanted my water broken I should have it done now, b/c the doc was going to go to sleep until 5 the next morning. (So what?) Finally, at around 2 or 3, the doc came back in and asked again. I had been feeling like I wasn't making much progress (contractions weren't getting faster or much stronger), and he said ROM would probably help "speed things along". I asked him to leave the room so I could talk about it w/DH, hoping (and expecting) he would shore up my resistance. He said "go ahead", so we did.

My contractions immediately became stronger and painful, which I had expected. I also started having back labor, which I did not expect. I tried walking again, bath again, having DH rub my back, hands and knees, birthing ball, everything I could think of. Finally, I had the nurse check my dilation. When I had the ROM, I had been dilated to a good "easy" five and completely effaced. Now I was back to four (could be stretched to five, yeah, that's pleasant) and was back down to only 50 percent effaced. I really wasn't too shocked to hear this, b/c my body's reaction to pain is to tense and resist, no matter how much I try to relax. I could feel myself tensing and pushing a bit w/the contractions.

I struggled on for a while, but finally around 9 or 10 AM Thursday (after repeated suggestions/hassling from the nurses) got an epidural (and, of course, pit, but I couldn't feel it anyway). I continued laboring, sleeping (finally - over 24 hours since labor had started, and no sleep!) occasionally and dry-heaving. I asked for something to eat (nothing since 6 the previous evening) and nurses refused. I insisted and was finally given a few Saltines.

This continued all day. Shifts changed, and I really wasn't making much progress (of course not - I couldn't walk around thanks to the epidural, and was stuck in bed laying on my side). A new doc came on and threatened three or four different times to call a c/s (she'd say "okay, if you haven't progressed to xxxxx by yyyyy time, we may have to do it. However, she let me slide through - I didn't quite it to whatever dilation she wanted, so she'd let me go another hour, etc). She went off duty and a new doc came on. He checked and I was at 8 (woo-hoo! I was surprised). It wasn't too much longer before I REALLY had to push.

Finally, at 6 or so Thursday evening, I started pushing. Pushing and pushing and pushing. After (maybe) an hour, the doc said Will wasn't really descending much anymore and I should start preparing myself in case of c/s. I FREAKED out. Started crying, almost hyperventilating (remember, we're looking at over 36 hours of labor, intervention after intervention, w/me feeling pushed into it). Doc said, "okay, we'll give it some more time". I pushed Will so far down that we were able to touch his head. And then he was "stuck". I couldn't push him further. I asked the nurses to help (hold) me onto hands and knees so I could get him further out. They told me if I could get myself onto hands and knees, they'd help hold me there. (Hello! I'm freaking nine months pregnant! I can't turn myself over w/out help, even when I don't have an epidural) I tried, and couldn't even sit up (Duh! Ab muscles are not at their best after nine months of pregnancy). So I laid there and tried to push more.

Finally, at 9 or 9:30, the doc brings up the c/s again. I just gave up and said okay. I looked at DH and my mom, and could see the relief on their faces. (OMG, I am so angry about that right now, I'm crying).

Will was born at 10:02 PM Thursday, April 10, 2003.

Whoa! It feels good to get that all out. I haven't been able to write a birth story for him yet - it's still too much of a hot button for me, and I don't want my anger to leach into Will's birth story.

If I could change anything, I'd turn around and go home once I heard Will's heartbeat and knew he was okay. If I could undo a procedure, I'd kick anyone out of my room who even thought about ROM. I can't do either one.

I feel guilt b/c, in the end, I was the one who agreed to all the interventions and the c/s. I am extremely angry b/c I felt pushed into all those decisions by the hospital staff and not supported at all by DH or my mom.

Sorry if this is not the right place for this. I don't want to make anyone who's choosing a c/s or recovering from one uncomfortable. I'm just frustrated by my unnecessary c/s. You know, if only they'd helped me onto hands and knees. If only DH had reminded me why I didn't want ROM. If only I'd been able to stand that back labor better. If only we'd turned around and gone home Wednesday evening. If only, if only, if only. I KNOW I can't turn back the clock, but it still hurts to think "what if".


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## KKmama (Dec 6, 2001)

Big hugs to you, Kinsey, and welcome. Yep, you're in the right place. We've all had (or will have) cesareans, some for good reasons, some for not so good reasons... some of us feel fine about our cesareans, and some of us feel not so fine, but everyone is welcome.... we just want a place to talk about our births, get support and information, and above all, to be gentle to each other!









I can't believe they wouldn't help you get on your hands on knees. What would it have hurt to have given you a hand? Y'know, my ob gives me a hand to get off the table after she measures my fundus... I don't see how that's *any* different... Pg women on their backs are like beetles on their backs (except we probably don't wave our legs around as much







).

Please don't second guess yourself. You tried really hard. When it's the heat of the moment, I think sometimes drs. can prey upon their patients' fears and desires to do what's right for the baby. I think it can be really, *really* hard for our husbands and moms especially to see us in pain, to worry about how we're doing, to worry about how our babies are doing. (I'm planning a VBAC for any day now, and believe me, I've had some heart to hearts with dh and mom.)


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

Kinsey ...

First,







.

Second,







. You have completely found the right place. There are a bunch of wonderful women on this thread who have been in your shoes (or very similar ones) and have struggled to overcome their feelings surrounding their c/s. You are not alone, and you are free to share your feelings -- good and bad -- and help to come to terms with what happened. It is difficult, but know that you are not alone. My story is very similar to yours (too many interventions, back labor, epidural, long labor, no food, space cadet dh, etc.), and I know how you feel. Talking about it helps, especially with other women who have been where you are. Please feel free to work through your feelings here.

Amy


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Welcome to our board! You are in the right place. It took me a long time to heal emotionally from my first csection. The second csection actually brought on a lot of healing and it had been five years.

I have to ask and I hope no one throws stones but do you really feel your csection was unnecessary? The reason I ask, is even though I had a deformed uterus, I have had more people say "I know so and so that had a bicornuate uterus and they had a vaginal birth" and "Why are you having a repeat, your chance of rupture really isnt that bad is it?" And I've read these boards, plenty of books, and stories about "Rowena" who had her 13 pound baby in the backyard under a flower pear tree, unassisted breech births, and look I am super natural birthing momma because I had 15lbs of twins in my living room that at times it has made me pause and wonder "should I of? could I have? was it really necessary?" And then the doubt, blame, and the pointing fingers begins. So I am wondering, are you really upset that things didn't go as planned and you made some decisions that may have made the experience worse or do you really feel that had you been left alone or not been in a hospital that you would have had your baby aunatural ?

For me healing began with my first csection was accepting the things I could not have controlled: my baby was transverse, my ribs were broken, my uterus is deformed; and then accepting responsiblity for making my situation worse: not trusting my insticts by allowing ECV and choosing a "green" physician that was not equipped to handle emergency situations. My ECV turned bad causing me to have an emergency csectoin with a failed spinal -- I got to endure over an hour of excrutiating pain, major drugs, and was given amnesia medication. While I don't blame myself for what happened in that OR, because they should have done G/A from the get go -- I am responsible for making choices that had reprecutions that landed me in that emergency situaiton. Had I went with my gut and listened to my body -- I would have not been in the OR under those conditions.

I think seeking therapy and talking about what happened is a good thing. I know it was very helpful to me. Luckily you have time, and time does heal.


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

Just subscribing









Hope everyone is well!!


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## Kiki Runs (Oct 7, 2002)

I've been thinking about how to respond to your post for a while, OnTheFence, b/c I don't want to jump down your throat - I'm just frustrated w/EVERYONE who asks what you did. So if I seem snarky or defensive, I probably am, but it's not aimed at you personally.

Yes, I really do feel my c/s was unnecessary. Maybe I didn't make that clear enough in my first post. That's part of the reason I'm still so angry and hurt by it. It was UNECESSARY!!! Don't get me wrong, if there was any danger to Will, I'd have been leading the march to the OR (I didn't mention it before, but there was never any problem w/Will. He handled the entire labor like a champ. He was never in danger). I'm not such a selfish person that I would endanger my baby for my "ideal" birth. And, yes, I know that things happen causing a c/s to be necessary. But mine WASN'T. I forgot to mention earlier that, upon review of my hospital records, I can find NO evidence that the epidural was turned off when I started pushing - or ever, for that matter! Had it been turned off, at least it would have worn off eventually and I could have tried hands and knees pushing.

I know that the decisions I made caused the c/s to happen, I take responsibility for that, and believe me, different choices will be made in the future. That said, had I been out of a hospital setting and left alone? I would bet money I wouldn't have "needed" a c/s.

Sometimes I think it would be easier to accept had Will been in distress. Then the c/s would have been necessary and it wouldn't have mattered that I couldn't get on hands and knees. It wouldn't have mattered that I let them break my water. The onus wouldn't be on ME. As it is, I'm left wondering "what if", b/c you're right, there's no way to prove my c/s was unnecessary, or that left alone I could have delivered vaginally.

I just feel like I'm fighting an uphill battle (particulary once people hear how big Will was) to get people to understand how much this bothers me b/c *I* am the one who caused it - with my choices, not Will's size.

Sorry to go off there, but it did feel good to get that out there. I can't exactly lecture the woman at the grocery store when she says "Oh, I bet you were glad when they decided to section you". If I thought it would do any good, there are some days when I might.







Can't you just picture it - me holding court over an audience near the diapers: "And whatever you do, don't let them break your water. Keep walking and stay away from the epidural."

I actually have an acquaintance who's newly pregnant and I'm having to keep a tight rein on myself to keep from writing her a letter detailing all the ways my decisions impacted Will's birth and how she could avoid the result I got. Probably not the best way to congratulate her on her pregnancy, eh? Maybe I'll have to settle for just sending her a book about natural childbirth.


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Kinsey,

Thank you for your candid and bold response and I like the way you said it! No apologies here honey!









And I would send your friend a natural pregnancy book or something on the fence like Dr. Sears, which is a great book for an introduction.









Kim


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

I have no problem telling plp what to stay away from....once they are farther along and IF it comes up. I try not to offer unwanted advice









Oh, and Kinsey...welcome to the group


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

I'm thinking about Tammy. I wonder if she had a boy or a girl. I wonder if she is breastfeeding okay. I wonder if she is in pain after her csectoin.
Is anyone else thinking about her?


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

Me too, Kim. I'm sure she'll post as soon as she feels able.


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## rainbowmoon (Oct 17, 2003)

kinsey- welcome mama! this is a safe circle of sisters, you're in the right place and will find lots of support here. I can totally relate to what you are going through emotionally...just hang in there and feel free to vent.

yes I've been thinking about Tammy today too!!!! I hope everything went well for her!


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## Al Dente (Jan 8, 2004)

and welcome kinsey! you are definitely in the right place...

thinking of tammy, too. hopefully everything has gone 100% by the book and she is doing great!


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## wrensmom (Feb 4, 2004)

Kinsey-Big hugs. I'm right there with you. My dd will be one in a month and I've just started processing her birth. I have a lot of similiar feeling about the birth and sometimes just retelling it can make me cry. I also feel let down by my dh, my mom, sister and best friend (they were my support) as well as my midwives. I definately have guilt surrounding the birth and things I would have done differently.
Hearing your story resounded with me and I would like to share mine at some point. However, I absolutely must go and have some "me" time while I can. Welcome.


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

I was thinking about Tammy yesterday. I hope everything went well!!

I miss that excitement of a newborn....I know Bryce is only 3 months old but I miss my "baby baby"....


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## Dawnalex (Jan 21, 2004)

Hi!
I just found out they are doing my c/sec in 8 wks!!!
Our son Landon is going to be a month early...
Im really nervous but sooo excited!!!
I dont have time today to read and reply to ppls posts







Just wanted to let everyone know


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

Just checking in, not sure how I missed the new thread.

Kinsey







Welcome to our "tribe". Many of us have taken quite a while to "heal" from our c-births, my healing did not come until my 3rd.

OTF- even though I KNOW my c-births were necessary, I STILL question it at times in my mind, rationally I know I made the right choices, but keep wondering if I had never had a c-birth I wouldn't be where I am today, feeling like having another baby is too risky. Then, I realize- maybe I wouldn't have the 3 beautiful children who I already know/love.


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## AllieRose (Oct 10, 2002)

Hi, I’m Allie and I’d like to join this group. I’ve been reading the posts for awhile on mothering, all through my pregnancy and beyond. My dd is going to be 1 year next month and I’m still struggling with how she was born. A c-section after 54 hours of labor. I had planned on a homebirth with a really qualified nurse midwife and certified midwife. Between the two of them they had 40 years of experience. I loved them and felt totally comfortable. I read everything there was to read about natural birth and homebirth. My DH and family was behind the idea and totally supportive. My pregnancy was really healthy. I went into labor 3:30am on a Saturday. I was able to fall back asleep, the contractions really picked up speed that morning. We called the midwives and they came down. We labored all day Saturday and through the night, I napped when I could between contractions. DH and the midwives were totally there for me and we were all working well together and I was so thankful to be at home. Sunday morning, my water hadn’t broken yet so we talked about breaking it. My midwife was about to do an internal and my water broke. I was 7 centimeters. The contractions were really steady and frequent at this point, right on top of each other. I spent most of the day in the shower in active labor. That afternoon things really seemed to be progressing. I was laboring hard. The midwives decided to check me again so I could start pushing (I’d been in active labor forever). Well, I was still only at 7 cm. It was so demoralizing. We got into the labor tub and labored for 5 more hours. Hard contractions right on top of each other, and they had been all day. Late into Sunday evening we finally decided to go to the hospital. I’d been in labor for over 40 hours and was starting to need some more help. I was getting exhausted from the pain. At the hospital, the doctor wanted to do a c-section then. I wanted it badly. I just wanted to pain to end. My midwife though suggested we get some pain relief and try medication to further dilate me so we could try for the vaginal birth. The OB wasn’t happy about it, but I agreed. So I got an intrathecal, fell asleep and labored on the pitocin all night. By Monday morning (I’d been in labor since Saturday), I was at 9.5 centimeters with a cervical lip. I was so happy that it would be over soon (so I thought). The midwife told me to push, so I did even though I didn’t have the urge. I couldn’t feel much except pain everywhere in my body at this point. For several hours I pushed unproductively with my midwife’s hand inside pushing and pulling on my cervix. Eventually my body swelled up inside out, my temperature shot right up. We had to do a c-section. My DH was amazing through this entire process. I had tireless support of everyone there. I felt like such a failure. She ended up being a big baby in a bad position. I so badly had hoped for a natural home birth and got a c-section. I was so wiped out I couldn’t even physically hold her. That broke my heart. Bonding was definitely hindered. My milk didn’t come in for 6 days, the hospital gave her formula and sugar water. I’m crying just remembering it. Thankfully, once we got home I was able to nurse her and she’s still nursing now. The recovery was really hard and I’m still recovering. During the pushing phase, my pelvic floor was destroyed. All the muscles in my pelvic floor were ripped/torn/traumatized. I had nightmares for weeks afterwards about the labor. I have pain my pelvic region frequently. It makes me so sad. I’m sorry if this isn’t the place for this, but I’m interested in hearing other stories about c-sections. I know mine was necessary, I’m just disappointed and feel like a failure as a woman. Plus I feel like I’ve let down the home birth community by needing a hospital transport and ultimately a c-section. Lastly, I was told that due to the damage to my pelvic floor, I’m not a candidate for a VBAC so I’ll have to have a c-section again if I get pregnant and I’m afraid of it, but I really want more babies so this is a struggle. So that’s my story. Thanks. Allie


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Allie,

I am crying after reading your story. I am so sorry for what you had to go through. I cant believe you lasted as long as you did. I know that I probably would not have lasted as long as you. It sounds like you made some very good pregnancy and birth choices and then things just happened, not as you had planned.
I would definitely say your csection was necessary. I feel bad for you because it seems like you wanted to go through with the csection earlier on but was talked out of it and then to experience all that trauma and pain. My heart breaks for you. Literally breaks.
I can sympathize with your traumatic experience, not being able to hold your daughter, etc. I was able to breastfeed right away but with a lot of assistance and my milk came in 2 days later but my recovery was hard and it took a good year physically and emotionally longer.
I want you to know that if I was in your shoes I would not try to VBAC. It sounds like there was some damage to your pelvic floor. I cant imagine the pain you must feel and curious to see if it causes you problems in other areas (sex, urination, bowel movements) I recently have become friends with a girl whose pelvic floor was ruined and she is suffering with all kinds of horrible problems. She is trying to get pregnant right now and then after she has her csection is having everything removed and repaired. She had a vaginal birth the first time but six weeks later had to have surgery to correct damage done while pushing.









I want you to know that you can have a wonderful, healing beautiful experience the next time. I did. Planned csections are better IMO and you can have some control over the situation and prep time. Know that we are here and {HUGS} to you.
If I was there I would hug and cry with you!!!!

Kim


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## goodcents (Dec 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kinsey43*
You know, if only they'd helped me onto hands and knees.











If i was there - I would have helped you onto your hands and knees. Healing and love vibes to you.

My only contribution to this conversation comes from the book by Pamela England. She suggests a language change.

Dont call it a cesearan section - the word section....well it has the power to "section" you off from your birth.

Call is a cesearan _birth_.

Praying for my SIL right now who just gave birth today via cesearan in Egypt, I believe fully anestized. And joy joy - her friends sent me a picture saying "Look - you get to see the baby before the mother"


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## goodcents (Dec 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AllieRose*
I know mine was necessary, I'm just disappointed and feel like a failure as a woman.

a quiet reminder of how fabulously your little womanly body provided a beautiful being to the earth. you did a wonderful job, and nurturing a living being for 9 months is truly an accomplishment. you did not fail - imagine your child - I hear nothing but "MOMMY YOU DID GREAT!"

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AllieRose*
Plus I feel like I've let down the home birth community by needing a hospital transport and ultimately a c-section.

You did not let anyone down. You tried as hard as you could for as long as you could. You deserve a home-birthing trophy - what an amazing job, I am stunned. I would have collapsed and gave in long long long before you.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AllieRose*
Lastly, I was told that due to the damage to my pelvic floor, I'm not a candidate for a VBAC so I'll have to have a c-section again if I get pregnant and I'm afraid of it, but I really want more babies so this is a struggle.

Please please read Birthing From Within by Pamela England. It really has some wonderful excercises in it to work through traumatic births. It can really clear the space to get over the fear and create the best possible birth experience in the future.

Healing, soft, squishy love vibes....


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

A friend of mine had her c/b 10 days before mine. They found out yesterday that their son is completely deaf. She seems to be doing good. They will see when he about 1 if cochlear implants are an option.

I also had a friend have a baby on Tuesday. The baby was induced, she is a first time mom so I was a little concerned, for size (not a reason you like to hear) He was 9lbs 15oz nad 22 inches long! He was a big boy!! But she did great and is doing great her dh was fired from the church he was at the 8 days before Brayden was born







)


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## AllieRose (Oct 10, 2002)

Thank you all for your support. I'll definitely pick up a copy of Birthing from Within, thanks for the suggestion. Hopefully it'll help. I saw a therapist after the birth and that helped a lot.

Kim, the pelvic floor problems thankfully have not resulted in any incontinence issues. The main problem is sex. It's impossible. The pain is unbearable. What's happened is the muscles in my vaginal canal are all broken, so the sphincter muscle and others behind it fall forward and create a u-turn in my vagina causing extremely painful sex. I've been dutifully doing my kegal exercises and am seeing some improvement. The doctor said that the muscles may never go back to normal, what I have to do is train the muscles that are falling forward to go back. Also, everything in there was sort of scraped, like the worst rug burn imaginable so any friction in there is awful. Just awful. Luckily I have the most patient and supportive DH ever who is totally willing to work with me and wait and just try to help me heal. I'm seeing a different doctor next week, one that specializes in pelvic floor reconstruction so we'll see what he has to say.

Thanks again. It's really nice to have a place to process all this.

Allie


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

NAK so short ... Allie







and







. You've come to the right place. Your story is courageous and commendable. You birthed a beautiful baby under extraordinary circumstances. Many of us are amazed at how strong you were to endure all you did for as long as you did -- I'm in awe mama!

Feel free to talk and vent and cry and heal with us.


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## KKmama (Dec 6, 2001)

Allie, I'm really sorry for what you went through. It sounds horrendous. This *is* the place to hear about others' cesareans--I think everyone who's been here for a while has shared their birth stories at some point... maybe some people will re-post, or you can look back through the previous 9 threads? Seriously, there's some good reading in there... birth stories, birth plans, etc.

You didn't let down the homebirth community! Your dd's birth is something *you* own, not them! You had a *really* long labor...

There are also some women here who had pretty yucky cesareans and then went on to have repeat Cs which were much, much better (and healing)... a repeat C doesn't have to be like your dd's birth! Yeah, talking about your feelings and fears helps a lot...

Justine, I'm all with you on the semantics... I never call it a "section"--I'm not a grapefruit! It *is* a birth, for better or for worse.

I'm still hanging out at not quite 39 wks...


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## rainbowmoon (Oct 17, 2003)

Allie- welcome mama!





















you are one strong mama, you did not fail, just look at your baby and know that.


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## wrensmom (Feb 4, 2004)

Hi to all, I wold like to post my birth story here as well. I've joined in on the dicussions before but never gave my birth story. I resonate with Kinsey and Allie's stories so I thought it was a good time to share mine. My dd will be one next month and I'm definately still processing her birth.
I woke up on Saturday morn. with lots of pink tinged mucus. I was having mild somewhat irregular contractions and just went about my day. My mom, sister and nephew were here and my dh and I made a big ole' breakfast for everyone. Continued to contracted throughout the morning. I was walking (which was hard since my feet were SOOO swollen) and even went to the farmer's market. The contractions really picked up around noonish. DH and I went to the co-op for snacks for our labor team and headed home. The midwife came at about 2:30 and checked me. I was six cm!.
So we started to get things ready for the birth. I got into our labor tub about 45 minutes later and sat down. I was checked again around 4:30 and was at 8cm but the baby was still high. My mom offered to make coffee for the midwives but they declined saying they thought we would be having a baby soon. I'm not sure what time they checked me again but it was with my insistence. I was still 8cm, the babe was high and also op. SO out of the tub. I was lunging and squatting (as best as I could with terribly swollen legs and feet). At next check, the babe was getting caput and my cervix swelling. My midwives gave my homepathics to remedy both of these situations. The medicine was effective. My midwife was really wanting to break my water to see if the babe would come down. I was hesistant to have her do this since my contractions were already pretty strong and I wanted the least amount of interventions. She asked several times and I finally agreed. The bag was broke and it didn't help the babe come down. I labored awhile longer several hours of so and still no progress. Around 9:30 the midwives wanted my to push and she was going to try and pull the cervix over the babes head. No luck. She had told me that if this didn't work that she wanted to transfer me to the hospital. I asked for a little more time at home. Finally at around 10:00 pm they made the call to transfer. Accordingly to my mom the next hour was chaotic. The midwife had been talking to everyone else about a possible transfer for a couple of hours. However, no one had done anything to prepare for it. (Hindsight, I should of had a hospital bag packed and a hospital plan). So, things were crazy as everyone prepared to leave. She was watching my nephew and said that no one was with me. My midwife helped me start to get dressed and I fininshed the job and started walking out the door myself. We choose to transfer to a hospital 40 min away because that is where the midwife had priviledges vs. the one 5 min away where she didn't. (hindsight, I should have gone to the closer one for my sake and my families sake). SO at 11:00 it was a long transfer and then the hospital wouldn't let go to the L&D floor until I answered all these insurance questions. Finally, I made it to the floor. The midwives wanted to give me an epidural to see if my uterus would relax and help the baby come down. Plus, they wnated to make sure my contractions were effective.
Once we were in the hospital, I lost my groove. I was handling my pain at home so well. At the hospital, my support team ended up standing along the wall while I gripped the bed and stared at the monitor. The nurse came in and asked if I wanted fentanyl for the pain. I said yes, but what I really wanted to ask was how much longer until the ansthesologist would be here for the epidural. No one else thought to ask this either. My dh asked "Are you sure you want this"? I said yes but I know I could have been persuaded if they tried a little harder. That said, the medicatioin didn't even TOUCH my pain.
I got my epidural and that was heaven. I would go natural again but I was ready for some pain relief. The doc came in and said they would let me labor for half an hour to see if I would dilate. Mean while he stood in the room and commented on how big my baby looked and wondered if it was due to gestational diabetes. Insinuated that I some how caused this huge baby from eating the wrong things. Even if he thought that he should have taken it outside of my room. Especially since they were already talking about a c-section if things didn't improve.
So I labored for another half hour with my dh by my side. I knew I going to have a c-section at this point. I could see that the babe's heart rate was decelerated with each contraction. We had been in active labor since 4:30PM and it was now 2:00 am.
So we had the section. DH came in and watched the surgery. I was strapped down and the babe was whisked away after the delivery even though she was fine. 8-9 apgars. She was really stuck in there. I could feel them pulling and tugging. She was 9'13" and 22 inches long born at 2:44 am. I'm 5'3" so that was a big baby for me. I could tell afterwards she was acynclitic cause she had an indentation on her head. We didn't get her placenta.
Wow, this is getting long. I have lots of things that I wish I would have done differently. I'm saddened 'cause I felt like no one in my support team really advocated for me. My mom feels especially guilty 'cause she wanted to say something but didn't because she was afraid she was interferring. On the good side, my baby nursed fabulously and the nurses respected my wishes that she not get the ethromycin or the hep b shot. Not to mention we are both alive and healthy. At first, I needed to believe my c-section was necessary, now I'm not so sure. Whew, I'll stop now.


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wrensmom*
Once we were in the hospital, I lost my groove. I was handling my pain at home so well.

I've noticed variations on this theme, both here and with others I've talked to IRL. I was handling my contractions pretty well while at home (and even in the car), but once I got to the hospital, I just couldn't stay focused.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wrensmom*
At first, I needed to believe my c-section was necessary, now I'm not so sure.

I totally understand this statement, as I've more or less said it to myself a number of times. As I'm still struggling with understanding my feelings, I have no words of wisdom. Just know you're not alone.

Thanks for sharing your story.


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## tammylc (Apr 4, 2004)

It's a Baby!

Liam Benjamin McGlohon
April 26, 2004
12:18 pm
7 lbs, 10 oz
21 inches

http://public.fotki.com/tammylc/liam1/

Delivered via scheduled c-section when it became clear that he really preferred his head up top near mom's heart, and not down in the birth canal where it's supposed to be.

Mom and baby are home and doing very well. Better, in fact, than I expected to be both, both emotionally and physically. Especially now that we've got a handle on our nursing issues. Speaking of which, I think it's time to wake up my sleepy little boy for his dinner... More later.


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## wrensmom (Feb 4, 2004)

What a sweet adorable little guy!!!!! Congratulations~!


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tammylc*
It's a Baby!

Liam Benjamin McGlohon
April 26, 2004
12:18 pm
7 lbs, 10 oz
21 inches

http://public.fotki.com/tammylc/liam1/

Delivered via scheduled c-section when it became clear that he really preferred his head up top near mom's heart, and not down in the birth canal where it's supposed to be.

Mom and baby are home and doing very well. Better, in fact, than I expected to be both, both emotionally and physically. Especially now that we've got a handle on our nursing issues. Speaking of which, I think it's time to wake up my sleepy little boy for his dinner... More later.


Tammy your baby is beautiful and he has a nice head too. <wink> Tammy you also look terrific! Were those pics taken right after your csection? Wow you are looking so great, wide eyed and bushy tailed and so does you new baby boy! Can't wait to hear more!!


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## LisaG (Feb 23, 2003)

Hi ladies,

Allie - my heart goes out to you for all the hard work you put into birthing your babe. I'm sorry it wasn't an easier road for you







.

I wanted to mention to you that you might want to look into having a health care professional do internal (vaginal) pelvic floor work to help with the healing of your pelvic floor. I have a very good friend who is a PT and she took a course about a year ago in this and she has had some amazing results helping women with pelvic floor issues. If you were anywhere around Palm Beach, FL I would send you to her in a heart beat. Even if you do end up having some kind of surgical correction, I think this work could really make a difference in helping things rebalance post-surgery.

If you would like me to find some resources for you, I'd be happy to help.

Take care,
LisaG


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

Tammy -- Congrats! Liam is beautiful! Enjoy your babymoon!


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## AllieRose (Oct 10, 2002)

Wrensmom - I cried reading your story. I really relate to it. I didn't have a hospital bag packed either. We didn't have a camera or anything when our daughter was born. It was awful being in a hospital where I didn't know anyone and didn't have any of my own things. I was so sad not to have a camera. Luckily we were able to get the placenta to take home though. My dd was 9 pounds 5 ounces, which was real big for me since I'm 5 feet tall. I can't believe dd will be 1 year next month!

Congratulations Tammy!

I just want to thank everyone for sharing their stories and for the support. I'll try to find some of the old threads so I can read some more.

Allie


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## Al Dente (Jan 8, 2004)

CONGRATS TAMMY!! He is beautiful. 
















to AllieRose and WrensMom. Your stories touched me in so many ways. I hope you can both find peace.

AllieRose you mentioned that you were searching for old threads for birth stories. Here is mine-just enter the password _angel_ at the prompt.

http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/f/firstangel/

Can't believe he's already 3 wks old! Time flies...
Rachel


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## bwylde (Feb 19, 2004)

Congratulations TammY! What a gorgeous little man









I'm glad to hear you're doing good, especially with nursing


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Wrensmom,

I just got the opportunity to really read your birth story. Wow! I can't believe you lasted as long as you did either. From reading what you wrote I believe your csection was necessary. It just seems that maybe your baby was stuck in there, for whatever reason. It does seem like the dr. acted a bit like a jerk though. Did they give you a reason after surgery for why they believed she didn't come on out vaginally? Jack was hard to get out during my csection, they had to use a vacuum extractor to get him out after they pushed and pulled and failed to dislodge him.

Fast healing and peace to you~!


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## loftmama (Feb 12, 2004)

Hi everyone. 2 c-section mama here, after failed VBAC attempt. Wait - make that a successful attempt, but a failed VBAC. Anyway...

ITA with everyone about the book by Pam England. It's awesome.









On the Fence, I have a question for you. For your next planned CB, will you wait until you go into labor? What I mean is: I've been thinking a lot about the possibility of having another baby. I've been told I need to have another CB. I've been wondering if I could plan everything except the date. Does that make sense? I enjoyed not knowing when the baby would come, waiting for labor, and my early labor. I was so happy, I cried. (Okay, part of the crying was b/c I really believed I would be having a successful natural VBAC. Anyway...) So, what do you think? Can you plan a CB, but wait till you go into labor?

Also, I totally believed my 1st CB was unnecessary. After my second CB, now I believe the 1st one was as well as the second. Both my boys have identical markings/scars on their foreheads between their eyebrows. Since my midwives and doula thought there was something physical blocking the entry to my mid-pelvis, I've been wondering if the markings on their foreheads are from the blockage. Maybe it's scar tissue from my many car accidents? Maybe there's a bone spur???

Does anyone know anything about getting an x-ray done of the pelvis and how that works? I really want to find out if there is something physical blocking the entry. I just don't know if that's possible. Then again... maybe it's something I don't want to know...

BTW, I'm impressed with On The Fence going to counseling. I've wondered about that. I still get really, deeply sad.







During yoga the other night, my body felt so open afterwards and I kept wondering if I could've delivered naturally had I been doing yoga for years and years and years. I started fantasizing about a natural birth again. Then I cried. Cyclical. Predictable. As they say in Mexico, Ni Modo. (Oh, Well)


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Right now, if I have another baby I am leaning towards a planned csection, including picking the date. I believe from my reading that going into labor before is riskier for maternal and neonatal outcomes and since I have difficult pregnancies and trouble concieving, I do not see myself taking chances.

Also, you mention both kids had similar scars, and you believed it had something to do with car accidents. I dated a man whose cousin was in a very bad car accident and her children were born with marks on them from where one of the bones was broke in there and how it had grown back. Her doctors recommended csections before she ever had children. She actually gave birth to one vaginally but she said it was like being ripped apart down there and she had a long recovery so she had a csection the next time.


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

Congrats Tammy..... our ds's share a b-day (2 yrs apart







)


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## loftmama (Feb 12, 2004)

thanks, on the fence, for passing on that story of the woman in the car accidents. somehow, i find it affirming or validating or something, to know that that possibility does exists. it makes me feel like exhaling, relief, or something.


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## loftmama (Feb 12, 2004)

OTF, do you know how the docs knew about the broken bone blocking the pelvis?


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loftmama*
OTF, do you know how the docs knew about the broken bone blocking the pelvis?

Previous reconstruction surgery.
My sister used to be a L&D nurse and she said that for people who had been in car accidents, etc. it wasnt uncommon.


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## Kiki Runs (Oct 7, 2002)

Whew! Sorry it's been so long since I posted here. I have been reading the thread, it's just taking me a little longer to organize my thoughts. It seems like every birth story I read, I have to stop and think about my own (again), get through that, THEN I can think about the story I'm reading.

Actually, I'm pretty proud of myself for even being able to read the darn things and participate in this thread w/out getting angry and sad again.

Wrensmom said: "The doc came in and said they would let me labor for half an hour to see if I would dilate. Mean while he stood in the room and commented on how big my baby looked and wondered if it was due to gestational diabetes. Insinuated that I some how caused this huge baby from eating the wrong things. Even if he thought that he should have taken it outside of my room. Especially since they were already talking about a c-section if things didn't improve. " Sorry - can't figure out how to quote properly.

WTF???!! You are sooo right - he should have taken that out of the room. I can remember at some point after I got my epidural (in and out of sleep after that point), my mom and the nurse over in a corner of my room whispering to each other. I TOTALLY knew they were talking about me (I mean, really, were they exchanging cookie recipes?). I YELLED at them to either say it to me, or get the heck out of my room. They tried to tell me they weren't talking about me, but later Mom admitted that the nurse was telling her she should "try to talk me into a c/s". This was after the doc had mentioned it and I freaked out. GRRRRR. Just b/c I am in labor does NOT mean I have lost brain function. I knew it was about me, which made me even more upset and distracted.

Allie - PLEASE do not feel you let down the natural birth community. First of all, your duty is not to any sort of community - it's to yourself! I remember how guilty I felt after Will's birth. I called my sister (she's a doula and had planned to be there with me, but couldn't make it). Actually, I had my mom call her and tell her Will was born, but I couldn't get up the nerve to call myself for a couple days. I, too, felt I had let her down, and was afraid she would be angry with me (WHAT?!?! How ridiculous - now.). Of course, when I called, she was completely supportive and I felt stupid for ever doubting her.

Actually, when I called her, I had to psych myself up, got all my defenses all lined up so that I could say I did everything I could - the c/s was inevitable (denial, much?). She listened and supported me. About three months later, we talked about it again and by that time, I was angry and had realized the c/s was NOT necessary. She said she knew and could tell I was rationalizing after Will's birth, but I needed to find my own way through the healing process. What a good sister!

To whomever said it would be a good idea to label it a "c/birth" vs a c/s (sorry, I can't remember right now) : I know. You're totally right. I'm just not quite okay enough with it yet to do that. For me, it still feels like something that was done TO me, not a birth where I was a participant. KWIM? So for now, I'll keep referring to my c/s as a c/s. I'll try not to label anyone else's that though. I'm glad so many other mamas have been able to own their c/births. I'm working on it.

Keep healing and love on those babies!


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## wrensmom (Feb 4, 2004)

Thank you mamas for your support. It really means alot to me.

AllieRose-whew! It is one thing to have these things happen to you but another when your kid is a stake. It is very intimidating in the hospital and usually after birth you are so tired it is hard to put up much of a fight. Plus, unless you've researched everything that could happen ahead of time it is hard to make informed decisions. You only know what you are being told by the staff.
I'm sorry to hear that you are still having issues with your pelvic floor on top of recovering from major abdominal surgery. You are fortunate to have such a loving and patient husband. Sex for me is still a little painful/uncomfortable at first and I have to really relax into things. I'm not sure if it really has anything to do with the labor since she didn't even come down the canal at all. I think mine is more emotional.
I don't feel like I let down the natural birthing community and you should not either. I do feel alienated from it.

Kinsey43-I'm sorry that nurse was trying to convince your mom to convince you to have a c-section. More importantly doing it in front of you as if you were not there!!! SO disrespectful. I'm glad you yelled at them to say it to you or get out of the room. Off topic a little, when a person is dying the last thing to go is their hearing. Same thing for very sick people or healthy people deeply in the midst of laborland.
What a fabulous and wise sister you have!!!

I was reading one of Tammy's posts about how she was struggling with not being able to go through the birthing rite of passage. I'm parapharsing, but instead of birthing this child a man in a white coat would be pulling the babe out of her. I have to agree. I have my labor experience but not my pushing/birth experience. I had thought about the pushing out a baby part of a birth since I was a child. There are other rites of passages I do have like nursing and being a mom but pushing out the babe is not one of them.

take care mamas


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## wrensmom (Feb 4, 2004)

OTF- I got my surgery report from the doctor and the reason for the c-section was arrest of dialation. So who knows. The midwives didn't really have an answer. I think it a combo of big baby, small woman and most importantly a op malpositioned babe.

AllieRose- Yes, sounds like you also had a big babe for a small woman.

I do believe that I could have birthed her vaginally. I just think she needed to be in an optimal position since she didn't have alot of wiggle room.


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## liam's mom (Jun 18, 2003)

Hello, ladies. Just subscribing to this thread. I don't have time to post Liam's birth story right now, but suffice it to say I am still very upset about it. He turns one in a matter of days and all I can think about it the birth (and the aftermath; he had complications and was in the NICU for five days).

Anyway, I am hoping to pop back on here later this evening to read more and maybe share the labor and birth story.

I wish somehow I could get over everything, but I can't.







And the fact that it's been almost a year and I still feel so awful about it just makes everything worse. I thought I'd feel better by now.


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## mamasarah (May 28, 2002)

hi, i just wanted to join this thread with the hopes i can help others through what can be a very emotional, painful recovery.

i had a c-birth in 7/02 and am still healing. reading some of your stories makes me want to cry...it is so hard. i just want any of the newbies here to know that i am here for you anytime to talk about it. my process has been very long, and while i am in a muuuuch better place i still have moments of anger& sadness. i know now, though, that i am at a point where i can help others.

love to all of you goddesses out there.


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## tammylc (Apr 4, 2004)

Hi everyone, and thanks for the good wishes. I was all set to post something last night, but then the baby woke up, and you all know how the rest of *that* story goes!

First off - sympathies to everyone for some of the horrible c-section stories posted recently. I feel awful for all of you. It makes me feel a little bit guilty posting about my experience, because so far it's been overwhelmingly positive.

Of course, there's a big difference between a scheduled CS and an emergency one, and I'm really glad that I had that 2 weeks of knowing it might happen and 1 week of knowing it definitely would happen to work through my own emotional issues. I did a lot of online journaling during that period of time (www.livejournal.com/users/tammylc) that let me grieve the loss my homebirth and prepare myself for what was going to come.

Because of that process, I woke up on Monday morning feeling nothing except excitement and anticipation about meeting my baby. I talked and joked with the nurses and doctors and techs as I was being prepped for surgery.

I got a little more scared once I was in the OR, of course. It was really, really cold and I got the shakes right away. When they went to put the spinal in, they missed on the first attempt and had to try again. Which sounds like it would be absolutely awful, but was really only a little pain in my right leg, and an extra bruise on my spine. (OTF - my hospital routinely uses a 4-hour block to allow extra time during surgery without having to resort to a general - thought you'd appreciate that bit of info.)

The spinal started to kick in and I was lied down on the operating table. I was shaking really badly - the cold, the drugs, low blood sugar, fear, worry and anticipation. The put a "bear hugger" on me. This was a plastic/paper blanket that stretched out over my arms and chest. It had hot air pumped through it that kept my core temperature up and made me much more comfortable. The disadvantage is that it meant that my arms were pretty much strapped down, so DH couldn't hold my hand and I didn't get a chance to touch the baby until recovery. But for me, I think it was a worthwhile tradeoff - if I'd been fighting to stay warm, I wouldn't have been able to be focused about the birth and the baby. I also used my breathing techniques from childbirth class to try to relax and center, and that was helpful as well.

They brought my husband in immediately after they made the first incision. He'd been getting very stressed waiting in the hallway. It took a little longer than I'd expected for them to get the baby out, but it was still probably only 15 minutes or so.

As the baby was breech, even before he was all the way out, the doctor announced that he could see a scrotum. I was a little surprised, as I had pretty much convinced myself that we were going to have a girl.

Liam gave a big wail as soon as they got him fully out of my uterus. He was typical blue baby when they held him up over the screen for me to see, but by the time they got him to the warmer (just seconds later) he was bright pink, and lustily screaming away. Apgar scores were 9/9. DH went over to the warmer immediately and touched and rubbed Liam's skin while the docs were doing all of their checks.

It took a little longer than I had hoped for him to be brought over to me, and like I said, I couldn't move my arms to touch him, but DH held him right up to my face so I could look at his adorable little face. Things got a little unfocused after that. I tried to really look at and pay attention to the baby, but it was difficult to keep my head turned to the side, and I was zoning out a little bit.

When they were almost done, DH and Liam were taken back to the recovery room. The docs finished sewing me up (double suture inside and staples outside), and then I was transferred back to the stretcher. It was so weird to see my big floppy white legs, but not be able to feel them!

Back in the recovery room, I got to hold my baby for the first time and it was wonderful! You can see the pictures of my blissed out self in the link I sent earlier. We tried to nurse, but had real problems getting latched on. One of my homebirth midwives was in the family waiting room and came down to join us in recovery. Good thing she asked us if we wanted her to take pictures, because that's the last thing DH and I were thinking about, but I'm really glad we've got them. She also tried to get us latched on, but with no luck.

I got Duramorph, which took care of all of my pain for the first day. Had a little bit of nausea in the first couple hours after the surgery and threw up once, after which I was fine on that front. Got up Monday night for a couple of accompanied trips to the bathroom to change pads, but I still had my IV and catheter in. Belly sounds were good, so I got to start drinking water Monday evening. Which was wonderful - I'd been having little daydreams about big glasses of water, and the ice chips just weren't doing the job!

The nurses were impressed with how well I was doing, so they took my cath and IV out before shift change in the morning, and got me on a solid diet startng with breakfast Tuesday. Sometime in the night, they came by and gave me a pack of pills for self administration - tylenol, ibuprofen, stool softeners, gas pills.

I am amazed by how little pain I was and am in. I took Tylenol and Ibuprofen (alternating every two hours). They kept coming by and offering me Percocet, but I just didn't need it. I've continued to be really comfortable - I haven't touched the Vicoden they sent me home with. I've mostly been in bed, hanging with the baby, although I've been getting up and down stairs some.

We hated being in the hospital. Our room in the mother-baby ward was small, and TOO HOT. I spent most of my time mostly naked (good for skin-to-skin contact) because I was so uncomfortable. Good thing I have no shame, as it seemed like every 10 minutes someone else was coming through to take my vitals, or the baby's vitals, or to get our meal order, or to see if I needed pain meds, etc, etc. DH wasn't a huge homebirth supporter before, but after that experience he so totally understands why I wanted to have one, and will be strongly supportive if we end up HBACing sometime in the future.

So we got out as soon as we possibly could. I was doing great - the nurses said that it looked like I was recovering from a vaginal delivery, not a CS - the baby was doing great. The only hitch was that we were having a lot of nursing problems (I'll talk about those in a separate post - this is already too long!). But we decided to go home Wednesday evening anyway, and were happily home by 7 pm.

DH was and still is amazing. We roomed in, and he became an expert diaper changer and baby swaddler while I was still stuck in bed. He remained in good spirits despite being woken up constantly and trying to sleep on that uncomfortable fold down chair. He's absolutely smitten with his little boy and is just an amazing dad.

I remain amazed by how good I feel about the birth, both physically and emotionally. Like I said in the beginning - I'd manage to work out most of my worries and concerns. Never once during the whole experience did I feel sad about the loss of my homebirth. I'd already mourned that loss and moved on to accept and embrace this unexpected path. During the prep and the operation, I was mostly just curious and engaged, as that is my regular modus operandus. After Liam was born it became all about him - meeting him, loving him, learning how to give him what he needs. And transitioning into my new role as a mom, a rite of passage that I'd finally accepted wasn't defined by which hole he came out of.


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## LisaG (Feb 23, 2003)

Dear Tammy,

Thank you so, so much for taking the time to share your story. Your journey has really touched my heart over the past few weeks, and hearing from you post birth gives me much reassurance.

It's becoming clearer to me that when I get pregnant I will need to let go of the "dream" home birth I always assumed I would have. Long story short, due to the surgery I had done on my uterus, a) it would most likely be a cold day in h*ll before I found a doc (or even a midwife) who would allow a trial of labor and b) I'm having the gut feeling that labor and birth would be more than my uterus could handle after all it's been through. At anyrate, I really related to your process of letting go of what you had so dearly planned for.

The pictures of you, dh and Liam are so sweet. I'm so happy for all of you and so glad to hear that things went smoothly and your recovery is going speedily and well.

Bravo on a job well done







- enjoy your babymoon









LisaG


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Tammy,

Thank you for sharing your birthstory. Reading it brings back some happy memories for me remembering Jack's birth. Also thanks for sharing the information about your pain relief and getting the duramorph -- great info for other members here. You seem to have made peace and had a positive experience, plus healing well! I am sooo happy for you.

A few questions:
Do you think your nursing problems have to do with your csection or do you think they easily could have happened with a vaginal birth?

Was there any inidication when they opened you up why your baby was breech and why he would not turn?

Congrats again!


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## tammylc (Apr 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OnTheFence*
Tammy,
A few questions:
Do you think your nursing problems have to do with your csection or do you think they easily could have happened with a vaginal birth?

Was there any inidication when they opened you up why your baby was breech and why he would not turn?

Congrats again!

I think the nursing problems would have happened regardless. Liam has a really small mouth, plus an attached frenulum. Combine these two things, and he has a really hard time latching on and sucking once he gets there. Especially once my milk came in and things got bigger. I think the fact that he didn't nurse at all for the first 29 hours might have been partly because of the CS and not having labor to help him wake up - he spent his whole first day just adjusting to being outside!

As for reasons - I have a *slightly* heart shaped uterus. There was definitely more room on my right side than my left, but the doctor thought it was just as likely that's just because that's where the baby was, so it got stretched out more. While I have a slightly higher likelihood of a subsequent baby being breech, he didn't think it was extreme enough to be a guaranteed thing. And now that I know, if there's a next time, we'll keep a much closer eye on things and try to encourage the baby to be head down much earlier.


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## LisaG (Feb 23, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tammylc*
I think the nursing problems would have happened regardless. Liam has a really small mouth, plus an attached frenulum.

Tammy,

FYI - my former business partner is a lactation consultant and she did her master's thesis on developing an diagnostic protocol for tongue tie. At anyrate, all that to say it really can make a world of difference with breastfeeding (and later on with eating solids and speech) to have the frenulum snipped. It is a relatively simple and easy process - the frenulum is minimally innervated so anesthesia is not required. We have a local dentist that she refers her clients to.

Good luck and take care!

LisaG


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## tammylc (Apr 4, 2004)

Thanks Lisa - everything I've read about the snipping indicates the same thing. Our pediatrician said he was "slightly tongue-tied" and was just planning on keeping on eye on it, but if the LC I'm seeing today thinks that it's part of the problem, I'm going to ask my ped to make me a referral to get it done right away.

I'm using nipple shields right now, and with those he's nursing like a champ, but I want to get him weaned off of them asap.


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Dear Tammy,

I was just curious because Elizabeth, who I had more drugs with had no problems but Jack did not nurse well the first 2 days after birth. He didnt even really latch on good until he was 13 hours old -- and I had no pre-op drugs at all with him and no post op drugs. The lactation consultant said some boys are just "lazy" nursers after birth. I guess its just one of the crap shoot things.

Do you think you will investigate further your "heart shaped" uterus. Mine is heart shaped but I do not have a full septum and one side is also bigger. Jack was head down, but his head was cocked to the side and shoulder presenting against the cervix, his body swinging to the right. He wouldnt have budged either had I gone into labor. He was stuck just like my breech baby and they even had trouble getting him out during the csection. I was wondering if in your next pregnancy if you would do an US to check for this kind of positioning, etc. Also, have you ever had a miscarriage before? I ask because I know that for me when implantation is at the top of the heart their are often problems and the embryo/fetus cannot survive. I will say that my OB said that if I ever had a baby that was the right size and head presenting against the cervix I could have a vaginal delivery but that my risks would be greater for rupture.

I'm long winded today!


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LisaG*
Tammy,

FYI - my former business partner is a lactation consultant and she did her master's thesis on developing an diagnostic protocol for tongue tie. At anyrate, all that to say it really can make a world of difference with breastfeeding (and later on with eating solids and speech) to have the frenulum snipped. It is a relatively simple and easy process - the frenulum is minimally innervated so anesthesia is not required. We have a local dentist that she refers her clients to.

Good luck and take care!

LisaG

Lisa could you point me in the direction of more info on this. Jack has had all kinds of problems with eating solids and now is having problems with speech. He understands speech and jabbers but cant understand a word of it. I see him struggling. I have called EI several times with no call back. Which pisses me off.

Kim


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## AnaNicole (Jan 30, 2004)

Tammy, it was wonderful to read your birth story! Thanks so much for sharing it.

One question--I keep hearing accounts in which husbands are not present during the administration of anesthesia. Is this protocol for most hospitals? Why? I don't want that (and have written my birth plan to reflect that wish). I haven't yet spoken with my OB about it but I will when I see him on Thursday, and I do know that my hospital is more progressive than most. It's the one where the nurses stood up against circumcision, after all.

But still.....

As for my impending delivery, I am not 100% sure, yet (and won't be until Thursday) but expect that we will be scheduling the delivery for May 24th. Three weeks from today! Whoa. I am so ready to meet this little guy, but I'm trying not to be impatient. I would like to enjoy these final weeks of my final pregnancy....


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## tammylc (Apr 4, 2004)

Don't know about most hospitals, but it was certainly protocol for mine. My hubby is very squeamish, so it wasn't something we requested to have different in our birth plan. He has a needle phobia, so seeing them stick me in the spine *twice* probably would have resulted in a husband with a concussion...


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## tammylc (Apr 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OnTheFence*
Dear Tammy,

I was just curious because Elizabeth, who I had more drugs with had no problems but Jack did not nurse well the first 2 days after birth. He didnt even really latch on good until he was 13 hours old -- and I had no pre-op drugs at all with him and no post op drugs. The lactation consultant said some boys are just "lazy" nursers after birth. I guess its just one of the crap shoot things.

Do you think you will investigate further your "heart shaped" uterus. Mine is heart shaped but I do not have a full septum and one side is also bigger. Jack was head down, but his head was cocked to the side and shoulder presenting against the cervix, his body swinging to the right. He wouldnt have budged either had I gone into labor. He was stuck just like my breech baby and they even had trouble getting him out during the csection. I was wondering if in your next pregnancy if you would do an US to check for this kind of positioning, etc. Also, have you ever had a miscarriage before? I ask because I know that for me when implantation is at the top of the heart their are often problems and the embryo/fetus cannot survive. I will say that my OB said that if I ever had a baby that was the right size and head presenting against the cervix I could have a vaginal delivery but that my risks would be greater for rupture.

I'm long winded today!

If I have another baby, I'll definitely stay attached to the medical system for longer than I did this time around. Ideally, it would be great if the OB I saw this time would be willing to see me throughout my pregnancy, knowing that I was going to try for a homebirth if everything looked okay. He was a great OB - very supportive, just an awesome doc. And from what he had to say afterwards, my likelihood of being able to VBAC with a vertex baby would be very good.

I'd definitely want to get more ultrasounds to check position, and try a very early version if signs indicated the next one wanted to be breech as well.

And nope, I've never had a miscarriage. Wasn't even TTC when I got pregnant with Liam, although I wasn't *not* TTC quite diligently enough if you catch my drift...


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Tammy thanks for being so open. Sounds like you do have a good OB. Maybe if you have another you would consider having a natural delivery in the hospital. My good friend who has a UC had her last baby in a hospital and had pregnancy care with an OB. She had good reasons for this and she said she was very pleased with how well the staff treated her and actually enjoyed her stay at the hospital! They even knew she had a homebirth and were not threatened by that at all. I think we read so many scarey things about hospitals that we forget that there are also good outcomes and experiences.


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## tammylc (Apr 4, 2004)

If it looked like there were likely to be complications, I'd certainly consider attempting a natural delivery in the hospital. But while we liked our OB a lot and thought he did an excellent job, we hated-hated-hated being in the hospital. Hot, uncomfortable, all those people trouping in and out - absolutely miserable. So I'd much rather attempt a homebirth, if signs indicated that it would be okay. My midwives have done HBACs before.


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

Tammy, I was thrilled to read your birth story. Alot of what you were feeling was the same with me too (though I wasn't cold - you'd think they could have turned up the heat!!).

I also think that getting the frenulum snipped would be a good idea to consider - I understand it can make a huge difference.

My hospital also did not allow DH in there until I was lying on the table and prepped. I'm not really sure why. DH is also "needle squeamish" so we didn't bother asking if he could be there.

I hope your nursing issues resolve themselves soon. Congratulations, and welcome to Liam!!!!!


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

Tammy ... thanks for sharing your birth story. I realize now that had my c/b been planned vs. at the end of a long labor, I probably would feel much differently about it. Still healing over here I guess.

I agree w/the pp about snipping the frenulum. It is apparently a fairly benign procedure (as such procedures go), and is much more easily done while baby is really little. GL w/your decision. And I'm so glad to hear that, otherwise, nursing is going well for you.


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## rainbowmoon (Oct 17, 2003)

wow so much activity on this thread! yay! it's great to know I can come here for support from other likeminded mamas. so many of your stories really resonate with me, thanks for sharing!









my DH was allowed in the OR when I was being prepped, and actually they started to prep me in the labor room (ie,epidural,pre-op drugs,shave,etc), he arrived in the OR after they had already started whatever they did in there as he was getting his scrubs on (I was a bit out of it at that point and just totally excited baby was coming!)


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

If you knew that you were going to have a repeat csection and were planning a pregnancy, what questions would you ask your OB about your birth that would make the birth meaningful for you?


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## tammylc (Apr 4, 2004)

Okay - CS mamas - talk to me about recovery pain. I've been more uncomfortable the last couple of days than I ever was in the hospital. My incision doesn't hurt at all, really. But there's a line about 1 inch above it that's really sore (an inside kind of sore, not an outside kind of sore - hope that makes sense). I think it's the nerves to my abdominal muscles. If I twist too much or inadvertently use my abdominal muscles, it's briefly excruciatingly painful.

Is this common/normal?

Also - when can I remove my steri-strips? I had my staples out on Thursday, and I think the midwife who took them out said I could take off the strips in 3-4 days - obviously been longer than that now, but I couldn't really remember - my incision is healing very nicely. Wish I could say the same for the allergic reaction I had to the adhesive they used over my incision - that's still itchy and miserable...


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## deleria (Mar 8, 2004)

Tammylc, I had a similar pain on the left of my incision. I also think it was a muscle pain. I had it on and off for four or five weeks. After that, it went away. I don't know if that helps or not, but hopefully it will get better for you, too. It does sound muscular, from what you're describing.

My story now:

I had a very traumatic, very long, very mismanaged vaginal birth with our first son. At the end of three long days, he was rushed to the NICU for observation and I hemmorhaged (sp?). We had a hard go of breastfeeding, but made it work. I was terribly afriad of having another child because I didn't want to go through that again. That was 7 1/2 years ago.

When I fell pregnant with ds #2 (who's almost 18 months old now), we made a point of ensuring that we knew how to prevent the previous situation. Had a lot of knowledge, a great doula, a doctor all for natural birth and a hospital that was as intervention-free as I could find around here (a homebirth is not a legal option in my area and I was too high risk for a birthing centre, so we made due).

After 28 hours of labour, we realized that I wasn't dialating past 5cm. I tried pretty much everything, but my labour had stalled for hours. I made the decision to have a cesarean at that point. That's the key point here: _I made the choice_. I think that's why I feel good about this birth experience. Last time, I didn't make choices; I let others make them for me. My body was telling me that it couldn't do it much longer and that nothing was happening. I made the decision that was best for my baby and I.

As it turned out, ds' cord was wrapped around his neck a few times, making it too short for him to descend far into the birth canal. He was destined to come out by other means, it seems. The cesarean was surprisingly calming and almost enjoyable. I held him within half an hour of the surgery and nursed him shortly after.

There are times when I still have 'what ifs'. I wonder why I, such a big supporter of and believer in natural birth, will probably never have one. I wonder what it would be like to experience a non-medical birth. The closest thing I can aim for now is a VBAC in a hospital setting. We're trying for baby #3 and that's what I'm planning.

Overall, it was a positive experience and something I would do again. Much better than my vaginal birth, actually :LOL I don't feel like less of a woman. I have two beautiful children who both came out of me in different ways. The _how_ of their arrival means less to me than the fact that they've arrived, period.

I know everyone is in a different place in their physical and emotional recovery. I wish you all the very best and hope that I can help support the mamas who need it. I have my dark days as well, and I'll be needing the comfort


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## AnaNicole (Jan 30, 2004)

AMANDA! How nice to see you here!!!


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tammylc*
Okay - CS mamas - talk to me about recovery pain. I've been more uncomfortable the last couple of days than I ever was in the hospital. My incision doesn't hurt at all, really. But there's a line about 1 inch above it that's really sore (an inside kind of sore, not an outside kind of sore - hope that makes sense). I think it's the nerves to my abdominal muscles. If I twist too much or inadvertently use my abdominal muscles, it's briefly excruciatingly painful.

Is this common/normal?

Also - when can I remove my steri-strips? I had my staples out on Thursday, and I think the midwife who took them out said I could take off the strips in 3-4 days - obviously been longer than that now, but I couldn't really remember - my incision is healing very nicely. Wish I could say the same for the allergic reaction I had to the adhesive they used over my incision - that's still itchy and miserable...

What you are experiencing is normal. Probably the side you hurt from or place is where there was more tugging to get the baby out. At least that is it for me. You may also be getting adhesions or you are doing too much. If you have been feeling good and then doing more than you should, then your body is saying "slow down" and rest. My steri strips came off by themselves in the shower, I would slowly work them off with a warm rag. I also had an allergic reactio to the adhesive. So I can relate! Also as the skin starts to heal it will itch too.


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

amanda,

thanks for coming by and sharing your story!
my last csection was very enjoyable and practically pain free. I don't feel I missed out on a thing.

Hang out with us here!


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## deleria (Mar 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AnaNicole*
AMANDA! How nice to see you here!!!









Ana!!







But of course you'd be here! I'm so happy to see you









Quote:


Originally Posted by *onthefence*
amanda,

thanks for coming by and sharing your story!
my last csection was very enjoyable and practically pain free. I don't feel I missed out on a thing.

Hang out with us here!

Thank you kindly! I'm glad to hear your last cesarean was a good experience. I find I'm getting happier with mine every day. I have the occasional 'what if' or sadness that I will never have that ultimate homebirth, but overall I'm positive about it.

I'm working towards becoming a LC and I hope that I can use my birth experiences to help those in similar situations get the best start at breastfeeding. Maybe that's the silver lining


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

Amanda ...







!

Tammy ... it sounds to me like you might have been doing too much and your body is letting you know. Take a day and try to relax and do as little as possible and see if that helps. (Hard, I know!) As for steri-strips ... you can start to work them off in the shower with a washcloth or loofah (gently!). The loofah will work great on the non-incision skin to get the dead allergic skin off (same problem here, plus i'm allergic to the steri-strips!). Just go very carefully around your incision. I didn't start doing this until 2+ weeks post c/b.


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

tammy--Steri strips are meant to come off on their own. That way they don't come off too early. I did what OTF did. I left them for about a week or more then slowly worked them off in the shower. If you pull too hard it'll catch the hair that is regrowing and hurt!!

This thread is so busy i can't hardly keep up with it all. I'm sooo behind!!

*Can I expect this skin fla to ever go away??*


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## e&e's_mama (Apr 28, 2004)

tammylc --

My advice to you is rest, rest and rest if you possibly can. First of all, you deserve it! Second of all, just reflect for a moment on what your body has been through: "major abdominal surgery" as they said to me many times in the hospital. Not to mention growing and nurturing a beautiful little person!! Take care of yourself, please!

My brief birth history, so you know where I am coming from: First ds was born surgically via c-section after 31 hours of labor and being at 10 cm for about 24 hours. That whole time I was attended by incredible midwives who then accompanied me to the surgery. It was the only way and we all knew and decided together. Ds truly knew what was best for himself and "took a different door out" as I like to tell him. When I became pregnant with our second ds, I considered VBAC. After careful consideration with my supportive OB, I decided to proceed with a planned c-section. Given the circumstances of my first birth, it was the best way.

The first recovery was major after doing it all, I was completely wiped out. I took it very slow and had a great recovery. The second birth was not so fun during surgery (anesthesia related. yuck) but just like the first time I was able to nurse ds within a half an hour. I felt great. The family was great. SO I over did it in the first week I returned home. That dragged my recovery out to 18 weeks without being able to exercise and led to my incision taking way too long to heal. I know better now! We need to take care of ourselves and rest! Otherwise it drags the recovery out even longer.

Anyway, blessings in your recovery!


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## wrensmom (Feb 4, 2004)

Hiya Mamas. I only have a moment to post. I just wanted to say thanks for everyone sharing their stories. People have said some wise things here that are helping me heal emotionally.
Welcome Amanda and Deleria. You both labored for so long. Women just really amaze me. We are so strong.
Tammy-I like what you said (I can't figure out how to use quotes) that it didn't matter what hole the babe came out of. Either way you are still a mom.
Deleria-I liked what you said about the how of your babies arrivals was not as important as the arrival.


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## wrensmom (Feb 4, 2004)

Oh, one other thing. I'm eleven months and a couple weeks post c-birth and my scar STILL itches and is sorta red. Not red and inflamed around the scar. The scar is just red. Anyone else? what do yall think?


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

I spent a good portion of last night's laying in bed trying to fall asleep time with the realization that I place a lot of blame on my dh for my c/b. Rationally, I know there is more than just him to blame, but when I think about it, he does carry some of the weight. The more I look at my situation, the more I believe my c/b was totally unnecessary, at least at the time it occurred. It may have happened anyway, but it was premature (we'll never know). And dh could've done more to prevent a lot of the events leading up to it. That was his job, at least as I saw it.

I had really wanted a mw and a doula. DH wanted an OB and no doula "this time" and if everything went well, then we could do the mw the next time (he still doesn't want a doula). So I relented and had an OB and no doula. I really wonder whether, had I had a mw, if she would've provided better labor support (my OB was barely there), and if a doula could've helped me deal better with flat on my back back labor (my water broke before ds engaged, so there was a risk of cord prolapse if I walked around) so I would've avoided an epi. My dh was entirely useless in the labor support department and did nothing to talk me out of any of the interventions I received, nor did he ask the appropriate questions, etc. This is after I told him pre-labor that I would be RELYING on him to provide this function for me. He claims to have read lots of the materials that I gave him about labor and being a helpful labor support person, but I think he just skimmed them and didn't really take it all seriously. He didn't want to go to Bradley (or other) classes. He didn't really want to talk about things in any meaningful way. I really think he thought this would be my show, that I'd be able to tell him coherently what I wanted/needed, that somehow, despite my statements to the contrary, that the OB would hold our hands through everything, and that I'd be thinking rationally. None of that was the case.

I realized last night that I really resent him for this. He really didn't take a huge interest in the whole preparation for labor, in helping me get through labor/delivery with as few interventions as possible, in doing all I expected of him, especially b/c he didn't let me have anyone else there to depend on to do those things. And his current attitude is that we have a healthy ds so what's all my disgruntlement with his method of delivery. I know it doesn't matter which hole he came out of, but I resent the fact that he came out the way he did, that I made the decisions I did, that dh didn't do anything to help the situation, etc.

Did anyone else go (or is anyone else going) through this? I haven't really discussed it with him as I have to plan my words very carefully (very necessary when married to a lawyer), and I really don't want him to feel badly, but I do want him to understand that, at the least, I feel like he failed me. Any ideas?

I guess what brought this on was that I've been doing a lot of reading about the VBAC situation in my area and I really think that if I go to the hospital to VBAC with baby number 2 (we're thinking of ttc in about a year, so this is heavy on my mind -- I want to be prepared!), I will end up with a c/b anyway b/c of all the "required" interventions that I will end up with in order to be allowed to attempt to VBAC. There are no birthing centers anywhere nearby, so that leaves HBAC. The idea of it is becoming more and more intriguing to me (and we're less than 10 minutes from 2 major hospitals so I'm not too worried if transfer becomes an issue). I mentioned this to dh last night and his response? "Well we better make sure your life insurance is up to date then." Way to be supportive, dh. I think he'd prefer I just have a c/b again. Nice and controlled.

I'm so mad.







Thanks for letting me vent.


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## Kiki Runs (Oct 7, 2002)

Henry's_Mamma: Your entire post could have been written by me (except not as well







)!! Exactly - I KNEW going in that I would need to depend on DH to "talk me out of" interventions and to be an advocate for ME! I also wanted my sister (a doula) to be there - DH didn't, he thought he'd be "pushed off to the side". Well, he didn't do much but take up space, anyway!
















I HAVE tried to talk to DH about my anger and resentment toward his behavior at DS' birth - several times. The first time was a month or two after the birth, and I was VERY emotional about it. I had been feeling (much like you) that he didn't care that Will was a c/s - he was here and everyone was healthy, so I should "just get over it" (in fact, he used those exact words







). I think, at that time, that I DID want to hurt him - I was hurt, and I wanted him to share that w/me. It didn't work - he kind of brushed everything off as being due to "hormones, or that PPD thing". I was perhaps more emotional than would have been best for trying to get my point across, as all we did was end up fighting.

Recently, I have approached DH about this again. I've really been trying to heal from the birth mentally, and thought it would be helpful to me to get my thoughts OUT of my head and try to release them. I thought more about it before I approached DH this time, and tried to focus on how *I* felt betrayed, let down, resentful, etc. I also tried to set the stage by stating that I was angry w/myself as well for allowing the whole mess to escalate, and that in my "soul-searching" I had realized that the fault wasn't ALL mine. I made sure to say that I wasn't trying to put the fault all on DH, either, but that he DID share some of the fault.

That attempt wasn't much better (although I congratulate myself on NOT trying to be hurtful, just trying to have a discussion). DH got defensive again and I tried to be understanding of that. I actually thought about it a lot before I started talking to DH and made some notes for me to refer to, trying to keep myself focused on my objective (at that point, trying to get DH to understand that I was/am HURTING). DH just doesn't seem able to comprehend how much this hurts me (and, I am assuming, you). I don't know if this is a typical guy thing or not, but I do know that DH has some interaction issues (adult child of alcoholics - many other communication problems).

I am planning on talking more about this w/DH, but I'm not sure what more I can SAY. I have already told him that I WILL be having a doula (preferably my sister) present - as far as I am concerned, he HAD his chance and blew it. We WILL have a doula for the next birth, and depending on his behavior/actions then, we will discuss going w/out a doula for future births. (I should say that I told him this in a nicer way, but I didn't leave any room for doubt - he bears a HUGE responsibility in the c/s, and I'm not willing to take the chance of being unsupported again).

I think that before I talk to DH again, I will be VERY clear in my mind what I need to "get back" from him and the conversation, and will try to think about what I will do if I don't get those things. I want him to show some concern about the fact that Will was a c/s - if he can't really be concerned about that, then at least show some concern that it bothers me! I want him to take SOME responsibility for bailing on me during my labor (like your DH, I think he thought I would be perfectly capable of directing him while laboring







though we had discussed ad nauseum the fact that I would NOT be ). I want him to make a commitment to protecting me from interventions and questioning "procedure", no matter how innocent it sounds. I also want him to be much more involved in preparing for the birth - taking classes, reading books, practicing pain relief techniques with me.

I don't know what will come of future discussions. I HOPE that after seeing how much Will's c/s has torn me up, DH will try to avoid that in the future (if only so that he doesn't have to deal w/a VERY angry wife







).

((Amy)) I know what you're going through, and it's not a fun place to be. I hope this helps, if only to know that you're not alone. If you want, feel free to PM me. I've been distracted as I typed this, so it may not be very cohesive. Sorry!

Kinsey


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## KKmama (Dec 6, 2001)

Wow, big hugs to you, Amy and Kinsey. I'm a really big advocate of the mama-to-be getting to make the decisions about birthing, and I get annoyed when I hear about these husbands who want to veto stuff but aren't up to providing the support they should (believe me, sadly enough, you guys aren't alone







).

OnTheFence pm'ed me to see how I was doing, and I realized that I haven't checked in here with my status recently.







My edd is Friday, still planning a VBAC. I'd been having lots of really great prelabor/early labor signs, increasing "real" BH contrax, etc. Then ds' cold caught me, and I've been pretty miserable for about the last 24 hrs (and of course, all my progress stopped too). Rationally, I guess I'd kind of like to feel better before I have a baby (and expose the poor little thing to our germs), but it's a little deflating. I'm feeling a little better tonight (I ate some very hot Indian pickles and drank a bunch of water to try to flush my darned head out, and I think it helped!), hoping to get some real sleep tonight.

I feel kind of sheepish not answering any of the questions about the scar, pain, etc., but really, I had a good recovery and very few problems healing. No skin flap, either, though I know a few women who have them (ug--is it because of some miscalculation on the surgeon's part when they're suturing???). Wrensmom, the scar will be red for a while, but eventually (knock on wood) it will fade to white, and be pretty thin and not that noticeable.


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Amy

Wow, what a powerful post. I can hear your anger. I am just not sure if it should be pointed at your husband, but I do believe he does carry some weight in this.

I want you to know that I say this in love and not to be a bitch. I am going to give some unsolicited advice. Take it or leave it, please just read it.
I think before you start laying the blunt of the blame on your husband, making him a scape goat for this csection you feel was unnecessary, you may want to seek some counseling and possibly look into post partum issues. I don't think its healthy or good for your marriage to have all these feelings of resent ment and I am not so sure you should be confronting him and placing this on him when you are so angry and passionate. Post partum is a very difficult time, sometimes our perceptions and realities change very quickly.

I too blamed others. "If only I had done this" and "if only Jeff would have let me have that homebirth" I came to realize that whatever I would have done, whatever he would have done -- I still would be in that OR. Could have doula changed things -- maybe? These are all what ifs. Men think in the right now, they dont view the past and future into the picture. They look at the things that count in black and white, we see things differently.
If you arent talking to someone about all this, I think you should. I wish I would have with my daughter. It was a mistake not too. I had terrible PPD and I had all these emotional things going on.

Your csection may have been unnecessary -- just be careful on who you lay the burden of responsibility for it on.

{{{hugs}}


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## Kiki Runs (Oct 7, 2002)

OTF/Kim - I just have to say this, and I know this is a VERY touchy subject for me, so maybe I am reading your posts wrong. But..... It seems (to me) that you have been insensitive in some of your replies. I can specifically say this in regards to my first post when you said: "I have to ask and I hope no one throws stones but do you really feel your csection was unnecessary? " I answered you immediately and let a bit of my frustration show through then. Now the reply you gave to Amy just seems insensitive. She SAID she has not talked about this w/her husband, that she is still sorting through her thoughts. She's NOT " laying the blunt of the blame on your husband, making him a scape goat for this csection you feel was unnecessary", she's thinking out loud!

Amy also said: "I really don't want him to feel badly, but I do want him to understand that, at the least, I feel like he failed me" Which he SHOULD feel. Whether or not the c/s was unnecessary (moot point, now), he FAILED. His job was to prevent (or minimize) interventions and provide support. In fact, he was against Amy hiring support from a doula. These duties were not sprung on him out of the blue, Amy let him know her expectations ahead of time. He failed to do HIS job. He should understand that (notice she's not saying "admit" or "apologize" - I don't think it's asking too much for him to UNDERSTAND).

I have seen from your posts about your own c/births that you have come to peace w/the process and are able to enjoy talking about and planning c/births w/other moms. That's wonderful for you! (I am being serious, not snarky). However, not everyone is there yet (and, TBH, even if I were, I would probably take offense at your questioning the unnecessariness - not a word, I know - of my c/s). Some of us take a little time to replay/relive the experience and process it. Sometimes the process is longer than expected. Everyone's journey is a bit different.

Amy's (and my) feelings are entirely VALID, and we are certainly entitled to them. In fact, my counselor celebrated my anger/resentment, in particular that toward DH. He DID let me down, and he DOESN'T have a problem w/it. That's a BIG problem for me. Obviously, I'm not dwelling on it night and day, but there was a space of time where I WAS incredibly angry at him night and day. I'm past it now, and I'm much better off than had I repressed those feelings.

Counseling may help (or it may not - I've had both scenarios). What really helps is starting to come to peace and heal from within. Sometimes counseling gets us there sooner/easier, sometimes not. I think Amy's doing very well in processing her birth experience. *I*, personally, am grieving - I don't know that Amy is, as well, but anger is an important step in that process. I had to get angry in order to feel that I had been wronged (by the docs, by DH, by MYSELF, even). Then I could start to move on.

It's entirely possible that I am PMSing and reading WAAAAY too much into your posts, Kim. If so, I apologize. I know the internet is hard to "read", sometimes, and tone doesn't always come across. I just wanted to speak out so that I could get past it. (and, if applicable, bring it to your attention) Sometimes it just hurts me to read certain posts and it's been over a year since the c/s - I'm just still not over it yet.

Again, I applaud your comfort w/your births and choices, and simply ask that you consider the rest of us taking the longer path to that peace.

Kinsey


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Kinsey,

I think you are taking my posts way too entirely personal and the wrong way.
I really do not know what else to say to convince you otherwise.
It ook me years to recover from my first csection so I am no sure where you get this notion that I put a time limit on things.

First, post partum is a very rocky time, especially after a traumatic birth. Every time you (general term here) evaluate what happened during a birth you may or may not change your mind. I asked you about the necessity of your csection, a valid question I believe for this forum, and if you really felt that way. Often people's perceptions change and the reality of the events change -- even after years of looking back on what happened. So right now someone may think their csection was necessary/unnecessary but then down the road realize something entierely different and that change over and over again -- and then no matter what the person believes the reality of that could be the opposite.

Also, the post partum time is very emotional, lots of things going on and this also plays a part in our judgement of how things happen and who to take our feelings and judgements out on. Do I think Amy's husband should have been more supportive? Yes. He could have. He also could have taken more of an active roll. I really cant say. Maybe he felt he was active enough -- I don't know. Men normally in those situations have to be told what to do and when to do it. They are not as intuitive as women and from my experience often do not have the same reaction times as women.

And I didn't give a pat answer, I think she does need counseling. If she is placing this much blame on her husband and having this much resentment it is not healthy for her marriage or relationship. I think I am being pretty honest when I also say that we look to blame and point fingers when things do not go as planned -- this is human nature.

I'm sorry you felt it necessary to go off on a rant on me twice thinking that I was being insensitive when I was really being more objective.


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

Hi ladies!

Amy and Kinsey, I just wanted to say that I am sorry that your dh's just aren't hearing you and your pain, I think in your situations I would have felt let down by my dh too. (but my situation was/is very different, and my dh played no role in my c-section decisions)

I have had 3 c-births that I feel were necessary- and it still has been hard to process at times--I think you are wise to put thought into what happened and work through it







.

KKmama- I hope you feel better really soon, I am thinking of you and hoping you will soon be posting a beautiful birth story that you feel great about!


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

I didn't mean to cause such controversy!

Kim ... I apppreciate your suggestion to seek counseling. I have seriously considered it. But I just want to clarify my position ... I am mad and resentful of my dh, but it is only a part of the larger picture of my anger at "the system" that I allowed myself to be subjected to, and which I feel lead me to this point. (Believe me, I am also angry w/myself for certain choices I knowingly made, and am mad at the ob, nurses, hospital, etc. as well.) It was only the other night that I realized that I had any anger towards my dh at all about this whole situation, and I was writing to merely think aloud about what I feel about him and his role in the c/b. I hadn't really explored those feelings before, and now that I have, I can see a little more clearly and I'm not as angry now as that post may suggest. In fact, in many ways, now that I've "spewed the venum" here, I now know what I need to say to my dh (and how to say it in a productive way) in order to let go of my anger and my blame and move forward.

As Kinsey suggested, I believe I am grieving my lost birth experience, and as with all grief, I am stepping through the various stages in my own time and my own way. Right now, I'm angry. Previously, I was in denial. I'm also at the point where I wonder if I will ever feel normal about this. And I'm sure many of the women on here know that it takes time, and the amount of time is different for each woman, to come to acceptance.

However, at this moment, I do feel that my dh failed me, or rather failed me b/c he didn't meet the expectations I had for him. I liken it to trying to run a marathon without training. He decided he was going to run a marathon, but he didn't bother to do much training, so he failed to make it more than a few miles down the road. I don't expect him to apologize for what happened to me (i.e., the occurence of the c/b), but rather, I would like him to acknowledge what happened and my feelings regarding it in a way that doesn't belittle my sadness (which, so far, has been his current response). I don't blame him for the c/b even close to 100%, but I do feel my experience may have left me feeling differently, even if the result was the same, had I had better support either from him or a mw or a doula. So to the extent that he didn't meet expectations that he knew I had of him, I would like him to take responsibility. I don't think that's too much to ask. Does that make sense? I don't mean for him to shoulder all the blame.

Kinsey ... thank you for validating my feelings and sharing your story. Its nice to know I'm not alone.

KKmama & Jess ... thank you also for your words of support.

KKmama ... please keep us posted as to your progress. Sending happy VBAC vibes to you! And feel better soon!

Now enough bickering about this, ladies!


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## wrensmom (Feb 4, 2004)

Amy and Kinsey now that I have a moment. . .dd is nursing. . .I wanted to tell yall that I have those same feelings the my dh let me down. My labor support was my bf, my sis, my mom and my dh. My bf did tons of reading before the birth and my sis was a trained doula. My dh went to a birthing class but that was it. I was in charge of making all the decisions regarding to baby and birth. I guess he felt it was my deal. Even though it was his babe too.
Oddly enough during the labor when things weren't looking so good no one I mean no one questioned anything. My mom and my sis have since told me that they regret they did not question things earlier or at all. When the decision was made to go to the hospital I remember being left alone in the other room. Does it really take that many people to get ready for a trip to the hospital? When we got there, my bf, sis and dh all stood along the wall away from me. Dh finally sat next to me as I was being given a half an hour to see what effect the epidural would have on my uterus. As I remember it he was told he could sit next to me.
So for awhile I was in denial about the whole birth. Recently, as I've started to explore my feelings around the birth I came to realize I felt let down by my dh. I'm the most upset with my dh mainly because he is my dh. Dh questions everything all the time. I understand that during labor and the birth he could feel alienated since he wasn't and couldn't be in control but I still feel let down.
As part of my healing process I brought this up to him. He of course was defensive and thought that what I was saying was mean. That I should tell my bf,sis and mom the same thing. I told him this is just how I was feeling. I'm sorry he felt like I was being mean but that I had alot of sorrow about how things turned out. I think he got it after awhile or he just didn't want to argue about it. I still haven't gotten any acknowledgment from him. I don't know that I need that right now. I just had to say how I felt.
So long story long I know what yall are going through.

kkmama-hope yer feelin' better soon.

take care mamas


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## Kiki Runs (Oct 7, 2002)

Kim - I am sorry you feel I "went off on you". As I said, the internet is hard to read, sometimes. I stand by what I said, although I certainly could have said it in a nicer way. I apologize for that. I'll try to explain myself a little better.

This is not directed at you specifically, Kim, but is meant to try to get some of my thoughts out of my head.

The fact is (at least in my case) there IS blame to be spread around. I take a huge helping on myself, but there is plenty left for my DH and the docs/nurses/medical system. It just takes time to sort out the appropriate distribution. At first, I tried to convince myself that the c/s was unavoidable, but as I gained distance from it, it became clear that it was not. There were definite choices *I* made that caused it. There were definite actions (or lack thereof) on my DH's part that contributed in a big way. There were definite instances where the docs/nurses' actions contributed to the c/s.

Had I been stronger, it wouldn't have mattered that my DH wasn't. Had I been stronger, it wouldn't have mattered how much the docs/nurses pushed. Had my DH been stronger, it wouldn't have mattered that I wasn't - he could have shored me up. Had he been stronger, it wouldn't have mattered how much the docs/nurses pushed - he could have shut them down. Had the docs/nurses not pushed or been willing to step away from the medical model, it wouldn't have mattered how strong or weak DH OR I was - there would have been no pushing to resist. Everyone has some responsibility here.

I think it would be MUCH easier if the c/s had been necessary - had DS' heart rate dropped, or I had had "complications", something, anything that would make a c/s CLEARLY the only option. As it stands, I am left knowing that it wasn't the only option, or even the only option LEFT (ie, different positions hadn't been tried, the epidural hadn't been turned off (I don't believe), even forceps *could* have been tried). There will ALWAYS be the question of whether it was necessary (well, not in my case - I know it was NOT - and that just makes it a harder pill to swallow).

I *think* my emotional recovery would be much easier (but I can't know for sure) if the c/s had been TRULY necessary. I wouldn't be going round in circles, wondering 'what if I'd done XYZ'. I wouldn't be feeling resentful of my DH for his lack of strength and feeling guilty for feeling that way. I wouldn't be so damn defensive about my c/s and apprehensive about the next birth (I know there would still be apprehension, but it wouldn't be about my support system and caregivers' trustworthiness).

It is hard for me to read about other mamas who have so easily (it seems to me, from the outside - obviously I don't *know* their struggles) come to acceptance w/their c/births. Like Amy said, "I'm also at the point where I wonder if I will ever feel normal about this. " Me, too. I know I need to, and I hope that someday I will, but right now it's too fresh and feels too WRONG. I am truly happy for all the mamas who are "okay" with their c/births, and part of me is jealous. Part of me sometimes thinks, "Well, heck, maybe I should just get over it and just plan a c/s for the next one and forget about it". But I can't do that. It wouldn't be true to myself, and I know that eventually I WOULD still have to deal w/my feelings about it.

Ugh. This post seems rambly (NAKing a fussy monkey tends to interrupt my creative flow - imagine that!), and I don't know if I'm even making any sense. I just wanted to get some of that OUT of my head.

Kim - I didn't mean to imply that you had some sort of a time frame for healing. I just wanted people to realize that it's an extremely personal process and we all take our own time. Now I'm going to speak to some of your points from your post BUT it's not personal, they are just specific things that spoke to me. I promise!

First, I do know that post partum is a rocky time, and people's perceptions change. However, the facts (at least in my case) will NOT change. And, looking at the FACTS, I still believe that my c/s was unnecessary. I honestly cannot imagine EVER feeling differently. Yes, I may feel differently about it and may eventually be able to accept it for what it was instead of feeling raw and violated, but the FACTS will still be that there was no reason for this c/s. I don't know about others' experiences, but whether or not emotions/viewpoints will change, they are still valid right now - it's what people are FEELING, and should be acknowledged.

Secondly, I agree that emotions are stronger and perhaps less rational during post partum state (rational emotions? Is that an oxymoron? I hope you can find my meaning anyway). That doesn't make them any less real. Like I said in my post, I DID confront my DH (yes, I did confront him - not very well done of me) shortly after Will was born. I could probably have done it a better way (NOW, but realistically NOT then), but didn't. I NEEDED him to know I was hurting, and that he had some responsiblity for that. I NEVER blamed the c/s on him, but I wanted him to know it hurt me that he didnt' seem to care 1) that I had an unwanted c/s 2) that the c/s was unnecessary 3) that he was NOT a support for me and 4) that he didn't seem to care that he had let me down (by not advocating for me, NOT by me having the c/s).

No, he didn't respond well, but I DID get all that OUT of my mind. I think that had I not gotten it out there, I would have had HUGE problems post partum - more PPD and earlier, and there still would have been that resentment towards DH - just unvoiced and more poisonous to my heart. I would probably do it again, in the same situation. Hopefully I could be less emotional about it, but I don't know - it's a very emotional situation, and it is still hard for me to try to talk to DH about it. He just doesn't "get" it, and he doesn't have to. He DOES need to be sympathetic to my feelings, and thus far he hasn't been.

You know, I just think it's a lot easier for people outside the situation (or with more time between them and the situation) to be calm and objective. It's easy for me to forget just how much things hurt while you are going through them. I think maybe it's like the pain of labor fading, the pain of emotional trauma probably fades too, once it's been resolved.

One last thing, Kim, that I've been really thinking on. You said I was :"thinking that I [you, Kim] was being insensitive when I [you, Kim] was really being more objective." That's true. However, the two are not mutually exclusive. Like, if you went shopping for pants w/a friend and she asked if the pants made her butt look big. Objectively, yes, maybe they do, but it might still be insensitive to say so. It all depends on the way the message is framed and on your friendship. My mom could say my butt looks big and I wouldn't be as hurt/offended as if a casual acquaintance said the same thing. KWIM?

Sometimes it's easy to forget that there are real people on the other end of these messages, and to leave out that extra bit of compassion/sympathy.

Or maybe your personality is just more blunt than *I* am accustomed to. In either case - you are NOT invited to go pants shopping with me







. I know my butt is big, and do NOT need reminded - by anyone. Friends?









Kinsey


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Of course we are friends! ANd yes I am very blunt. I would tell you the pants make your butt look big. LOL I am just that way. I am just that way. I try to be all southern belle about it, but its harder when you are on the internet!








Thanks for sharing -- this is what this thread is all about, learning, listening and sharing. {{{hugs}}}


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

For those of you who had epidurals ... did you experience any long-term (i.e., more than 1 month post birth) side effects? I'm trying to determine if the following might be due to the epidural or if its something else I should worry about ... here goes.

Every time I get up out of a laying down position (when I have been in said position for more than a half hour or so) my feet tingle as soon as I put weight on them, and the longer I've been laying down, the higher up my legs the tingling goes (but never higher than my knees). Time of day doesn't matter, but it is worse first thing in the morning. Its not painful, just annoying b/c it can take me a few steps to get good balance, and usually takes about a minute for the tingling to stop. I never had this problem pre-pg or even while pg, so I'm thinking it has something to do either w/hormones or w/the epidural.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

Amy-

I had all spinals, so I can't really say- but- I would call my OB and ask.


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Henry's_Mamma*
For those of you who had epidurals ... did you experience any long-term (i.e., more than 1 month post birth) side effects? I'm trying to determine if the following might be due to the epidural or if its something else I should worry about ... here goes.

Every time I get up out of a laying down position (when I have been in said position for more than a half hour or so) my feet tingle as soon as I put weight on them, and the longer I've been laying down, the higher up my legs the tingling goes (but never higher than my knees). Time of day doesn't matter, but it is worse first thing in the morning. Its not painful, just annoying b/c it can take me a few steps to get good balance, and usually takes about a minute for the tingling to stop. I never had this problem pre-pg or even while pg, so I'm thinking it has something to do either w/hormones or w/the epidural.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!

I had this with my spinal and the place where they put it in, is still numb over 7 years later. I had no side effects from my epidural but my sister has from hers. You may also have a pinch nerve. How long did you labour and did you push at all. I know that my neighbor has a pinch nerve and they think it was from when she was pushing.


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## AnaNicole (Jan 30, 2004)

I wonder, what would other people do in my situation?

At my last OB appt. (it was also my first) as well as the previous appt. with the perinatologist for a second opinion u/s...as well as in a follow-up phone call with my OB, I heard, more times than one, that it was unlikely I would go into June, with this baby, and that we would schedule the section for the week of the 24th. I even asked my OB point blank about the likelihood of that because I specifically wanted my sister to be here during that time (she lives in Seattle). Again, I was assured that the week we had discussed was likely unless I actually went earlier (bleeding and such).

I haven't bled, doesn't mean I won't, and am now well into my 34th week. Baby is growing like a weed (at my u/s on the 15th of April he was estimated to be over 4 lbs. which I know is not a for sure but still...) and is strong. I had steroid shots in April and am trucking along here....

So I go in for another OB appt. and he starts talking about waiting until I'm 39 weeks (i.e. second week in June). After being told we'd probably lay out the calendar and pick a b-day, this is a bit of a letdown. He discusses the idea that the longer we wait, the better (and I totally understand, fetal maturity and all) and since all is going smoothly....well, I don't know what to say. The possibility of CHOOSING to have an amnio on the 24th, to test for lung maturity, comes up--with a section scheduled for later that afternoon should the test come back okay. I want to push for this, but I don't.

I left the office feeling so bummed! It's a whole long story as to why, and right now I need to go to bed, but I will elaborate later. Suffice to say for now that having my sister here to help me through the recovery is something I had my heart set on. I'd also like for her to meet her nephew sooner, rather than later, and who knows when she'll be able to come back. We can't change her flight.

So my question--faced with this, do you think it wise to ask for the amnio on the 24th and to go ahead with a c/s if the lungs are adequately mature? Or should I let it go, enjoy my sister's company while she's here, and just hold off? My husband is leaning toward that but is understanding of my situation.

I just don't know what to do, I'm all muddled about it. Of course, my next u/s will reveal more (that's on the 19th) and I don't expect to decide on this until after that anyway. I see my OB again on the 20th.

So, thoughts? Opinions? I don't want to rush this, although I am So tired of having this all be so unknown, being so in limbo.... It's frustrating. Help!


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Ana,

Yes, I would ask and I would tell the doctor why it is so important for you to do this. I would stress that your sister is coming, etc. I would turn on the tears and say that you don't think you can go to June with all the uncertainty and no help.

Goodluck!
Kim


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

Ana-








I can't say what I would do in your shoes. You would be 38 weeks when your sister is coming?

I will say that my dd was born at 38 weeks and my 2 ds's were born at 39 weeks, and I feel that is a big part of why they nursed so much better (being more "ready").

I will also say that sometimes we feel a supposedly "selfish" reason for wanting it to go a certain way, and it turns out that it is/was God's hand pushing you without telling you the real reason why. With my last birth, I had at first, wanted to wait until I went into labor to have the c-section, towards the end of my pregnancy I got more and more uncomfortable with the idea that I'd end up with whatever OB was on that day- so I scheduled for 39 weeks (I felt both better and selfish about that) it turned out my uterus was coming open at the old scar line and had I gone into labor, I likely would've lost the baby and could've been in serious danger myself. God had pushed me into scheduling, I believe







.

So- I am all for a woman and her "feelings" on these things. I wish you the best in making your descision.


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## KKmama (Dec 6, 2001)

Hey Ana--

I've kept up with your "situation" (ie, the vasa previa and the reason for your cesarean)... What do they think about the safety of going later? (I hate to ask such a frank question, but I can't figure out any other way to ask it--I'm sorry!) I know it's no predictor, but how many weeks were your other kids (who came on their own)?

I really feel for you... it would be absolutely superb for your sister to be there for you--really. If you guys are close, I don't think you're overestimating how good it would be to have her around. My best friend was there before, during, and a few days after for me, and man, I still feel like I owe her.









On the other hand, yeah, babies who've cooked longer tend to be easier (from what I've observed, not like that's scientific or anything), but you really don't know whether a week is going to make a difference for your babe.

I think one thing you might want to do with your sister is to really explore airline ticket flexibility... ie, how far in advance she has to buy it to get a good deal, how much it would cost to change it, etc. Unfortunately, you may have to pay more to get some peace of mind (and flexibility) here.


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## Susu (May 31, 2002)

Ana i'm so sorry you are in this situation. i think you have already made a decision on what should be done so i don't dare tell you what i would do because that doesn't matter









as a mom of a premmie (from an emergency section) who did lots of research after the fact, here is some very general info that you probably already know: less than 34= premature, 34-37=pre-term, 37-42=full term. weight 500-1500kg=babes need high observation; over 1500kg babies tend to do much better (if there are no other health problems). Babies learn to latch on at about 33 weeks. those over 34weeks and 1500kg and in fine health don't need the NICU.

i used to belong to several premmie groups and those were mainly filled with parents of pre-30weekers. I suppose this was because those moms needed the most support because of long hospital stays and/or medical problems. In other words,pre-term babies in general, do very well.

~su
(my child never had trouble nursing and she was tiny tiny


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

Ana ... I don't envy your situation but I think I agree w/the pps who say to go w/your gut instinct. We as women tend to question our god-given intuition instead of just going with it. So listen to your heart with open ears and an open mind and it won't lead you wrong. Good luck!


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OnTheFence*
You may also have a pinch nerve. How long did you labour and did you push at all. I know that my neighbor has a pinch nerve and they think it was from when she was pushing.

I labored for 23 hours and pushed for 2+ with a posterior baby. I thought about the pinched nerve but that seemed unlikely b/c the tingling happens on both sides at the same time. I think w/pinched nerves you often have such problems on only one side of the body at a time. But maybe I'm wrong.


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## Kiki Runs (Oct 7, 2002)

Sorry - I forgot to post about this earlier.

I have a spot on my back (right about bra-line) that is numb occasionally, too. I don't have any problems w/my legs, though. I don't know if my spot is always numb or not, but I don't always notice it.

I'm sure it was caused by either the epidural or the spinal during DS' delivery, as I didn't have it before or during my pregnancy.

Since DS was about three or four months, my back has been stiffening up in the night. It's better now, but it got to the point where when I moved during the early AM hours to switch sides for nursing that I would literally cry! I had to have my DH help me get out of bed in the mornings, and hobbled around like an old woman for about an hour or so, until my back got warmed back up.

I saw a chiro for it and it helped some, but didn't totally eliminate the stiffness/pain. I don't know if it can be attributed to the epi/spinal, or if it's just me laying funny while I nurse/sleep w/DS. The chiro didn't offer any opinions, but TBH he wasn't much good.

Kinsey


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## AnaNicole (Jan 30, 2004)

Thank you for all the kind thoughts and encouragement! Also the info. I really really appreciate it.

Regarding instinct: the comments about that really resonated. My instinct, for instance, told me I needed an u/s earlier rather than later (we had a follow-up u/s in March, whereas we had originally talked about waiting until June). I really do believe that doing so then, as weird as it was to request an u/s early, probably helped me help my baby. Basically, I have slowed way down from how I would be normally and I think that has been beneficial. I wouldn't otherwise beon pelvic rest, for certain! And, as it turns out, sex with a previa can lead to bleeding and emergencies and....

Sigh...

So, my instinct it telling me that I want to know on the 24th. I want the amnio and, if he's "ready" I want him! I plan to wait and speak with the perinatologist about this on the 19th and get her opinion, then make my final decision. My instinct tells me he will be ready then. I feel it, and for some reason it takes me awhile to really listen to it....

It does sound selfish to want it to be a certain way, but there it is.

Off to sit with sleepy kids now. Thanks again!!!


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## jasperab (Apr 17, 2004)

Hi, new to this area, I have been posting on the vac area, this place is so large but lots of info for lots of things. I too had a c-section 3 mos ago with my second DD, my first DD six years ago was vaginal and very long delivery. This time on my 38 wk check up the doctor thought the baby was not where she should be and so had a ultra sound the next day. Sure enough she was sideways and I belive was that way the whole pregnacy. By that Thursday I had an Obstrition(sp) appointment and she said, ok you have to have a c-section pick a day next week. Well, my head was spinning so I said how about Monday. As I was driving home I realized that Monday would be my other DD birthday so the share the same day. The operation was ok, she was born at 8:33am and by 5







opm I had them take the IV and catheter out and was walking around. It was so not the way I wanted to go and even during the birth little DD was not co-operating. The surgeons assistant, a healthy 200lb man was putting all his weight on my belly trying to get the little mite down so she could be delivered. Anyways the worst was yet to come. The next day I woke up with a killer headache that just would not go away. My OB/surgeon said I probably have a spinal headache that could easily be fixed, the anisteologist (sp) simply has to go in at the injection site and relive the pressure. So he comes by later that day and says nope it can't be a spinal headace because he uses such small needles they rarely cause a spinal headache,( hmm could I be one of those "rare" people?) just take more painkillers. Now I'm a little mad, my head feels like its going to come off except when I lay down flat and I can't lay down flat because of the incision. I went home on day 3 and my headace got so bad my neck siezed up, I could barely move it. I spend 3 full days in agony until one morning I woke up and it was gone, but my head still hurt from the headache, you know what I mean? Now I get a headache at the slightest amount of stress and with a new little one there is plenty of that. I never use to get headaches and so I was wondering if anyone else who had a spinal headache from a c-section now gets more headaches? And on top of that, my vision in my right eye has gotten worst, I now have a "floater" in that eye. I sometime question that c-section because on the morning of the operation she had turned and I wonder if I was left to carry her the last week to week 40 if she would have been just fine to deliver vaginally.


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

Welcome to our little comunity!!

I didn't have a spinal headache. I would be concerned just because of the change in vision. I'd contact your ob and talk with them about it.

It is easy to question your c/b especially since it was so recent. I don't know what to say except that you never know how things are going to go. I had a planned repeat (I was vbhac until week 39 and changed my mind) Bryce was flipping back and forth from breech to head down to transverse that entire last week and at the last minute he dropped and went head down. I still had the c/b and I know it was the right thing for me. But your c/b was a bit of a surprise so it may take awhile to be ok with it. We are here for anything you need


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## wrensmom (Feb 4, 2004)

Welcome Jasperab!!


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## mamasarah (May 28, 2002)

hi ,i once posted after my c-birth at the thread treelove(or ladylee maybe?) started a while back, but i was in a very different place about my situation then. i hope nobody minds, but i really need my story to be heard in its entirety, the way it is meant to be told. i have often abbreviated it to people and for some reason feel like i need to get it out fully in order to let go one step further. ( often i feel like i'm totally healed from this, but then something pops up, so here i am!)

well, some background...i was all for natural childbirth, took ultimate care of myself in pregnancy, did yoga and perineal massage and took red raspberry and read like a fanatic and was sooooooooo prepared to give birth in a hospital with the midwife i chose and felt really happy and comfortable with.

until, that is, i was a week late and she started saying "induce". there was major tension between us. i was saying, no way will i take any drugs. next thing you know, she's examining me, and without asking, she "stirs things up" between my cervix and the baby...extremely painful. then, "oops---i may have accidentally broken your water!" i sat up. she says, well, i'm not sure. if it has been broken, then i want you to come to the hospital later to be induced! i of course, opposed, and she offered me my alternative, drink castor oil. well, i am a very sensitive woman to begin with, and believe me, at this point i was just all over the place emotionally. i had no idea what to do. dh and i left her office, and i felt strongly that i had started labor. we decided on the way home to stop at the co-op for some castor oil just in case. we were supposed to call her after a few hours to let her know if i was leaking water or not and what we were doing.

i was so confused. we trusted our midwife. and here's possibly the saddest part of the day, which imo led to my demise. i had the voice in my head saying loudly, "don't drink it. just let this labor progress." and i said it to dh, who said back, "kim said it was ok. we trust her. it's kim!" and i said yeah, ok, make me my yummy castor oil milkshake. to me it was a better alternative than some nasty drug.

well, within the hour i ran to the bathroom to begin letting every last drop of energy i had out of me. i just kept squeaking, this is so strong, we gotta call her. she said to come to her office ( not the hospital). she checked me and i was only 3cm. she basically lectured me and said if you want to go natural, you have to go home and learn how to breathe. so i did. we got home, i labored in the bathtub for 3 hrs( i only thought it was an hour, that's how out of it i was) with dh rubbing my back. i maybe talked one or two times the rest of the day. we left for the hospital and when we got checked in i was at 6cm. after some monitoring and the nurse asking annoying questions which caused my midwife to snap at her, i got to labor in the shower while they filled the tub. so i got in the tub and just floated there, hanging on to dh. all the while we were waiting for my mom, my absolute best female friend. she comes in quietly, unnoticed by me, and says quietly, "hey sarah, i'm here..." kim lashes out, "shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!" tension builder # 1. after some time they wanted to check me and the baby and this is when i was at a n 8, so close. got back in the tub for a while. f elt the urge to push, and they said, go ahead if you feel like it. i had no one check my dilation. after some time, they wanted to see how things were going. on the bed, my water broke and there was meconium everywhere. they strapped on the monitors and put a monitor in my poor baby's scalp. i absolutely could not handle being strapped in bed. they found that my cervix had not been fully dilated, i was pushin g and swelling my cervix smaller and smaller , to a 4. i was in the most amount of pain at this point. my entire labor from the time i drank that castor oil was nonstop hard labor. i mean, i couldn't tell what was a contraction and what wasn't. i had no energy, no coaching from my midwife, and this is about when she said c-sec. i immediately gave in, b/c according to my midwife the positioning of the baby was the reason she wouldn't come out vaginally, + meconium. my poor mom was out of the room during this discussion calling my dad, and when she asked what was going on kim again snapped, "c-section!"

well, they left me for about a 1/2 hour after telling me this. i was literally screaming, involuntarily pushing the whole time. finally, they got me in there, gave me a spinal, and started cutting me open only to realize that dh wasn'tn in the room. i said, where's iggy? to kim and there was all this shuffling as if they had forgotten him. after she was born i saw her for about a second, and then told iggy to sure, show her to the grandmas. well i was alone for so long. i regretted saying that to him so much.

i ended up with a spinal headache a few days later. it was awful. i was so depressed after the birth and really tried to tell myself it was all for the best, when i knew with better care from a midwife and coaching to get into other positions i could've pushed my ava out. this was not the beautiful birthing experience i had alway s imagined, soooo far from it.

it has been a long journey for me, and i really feel at peace now that i can talk about it more with my dh ( he didn't understand my feelings at first) and that i know i am probably perfectly capable of delivering a baby in the future. ...and if i did have another c-birth, i would know how to plan it so that it wouldn't be so traumatic. i am still waiting on my records so that i can read exactly what was said about the reasons for the section, but feel very strongly about becoming active in cesarean awareness and avoiding it at all costs!

thank you for listening if you've made it this far! i feel better already.

i just wanted to add that i am truly touched by all of your stories and this thread and appreciate you sharing them and discussing. places like this really provide a safe-haven for mommas like me who have been through a tough time. ...sorry for the sappiness


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## AnaNicole (Jan 30, 2004)

Thank you for sharing your story. I am aghast at how you were treated, by the way. I really am at a loss for words....


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Wow, what a story.

Have you ever discussed your midwifes actions during your birth?

I am glad you are getting this all out, sharing your story!


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## wrensmom (Feb 4, 2004)

Oh mamasarah, I'm really sorry you had to go through all that. I was glad to read your story and know that your telling it might help you heal. I too feel that just telling my story in a safe circle of women with similiar experiences helps me deal with the c-birth.


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## Al Dente (Jan 8, 2004)

mamasarah, i just wanted to thank you for sharing your story.


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## tammylc (Apr 4, 2004)

I know we discussed sex after CS in the last thread, but at only 2 weeks postpartum, I'm definitely not ready for that yet. It still hurts to get out of bed or roll over sometimes - definitely not up for anything more acrobatic than that.

But I'm horny as all get out (must have something to do with someone sucking my nipples all day every day...). Is it okay to non-penetratively masturbate to orgasm 2 weeks after my CS?


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

, yep, that's ok! Have fun :LOL


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## Bippity (Sep 12, 2003)

It's time for me to spill my guts - I think this is the right place...

It's been a year since my c-section. I guess I've been in denial most of the time - I hear myself saying, well, at least she was born healthy - which she was and I am glad for that! But... i'm still very sad about the whole thing & I kick myself once in awhile that I didn't get the birth experience I now know I wanted but didn't really know then how to get it - or didn't know that I could (I still doubt seriously that I could have realized this dream). I really can't say that I REALLY knew what I wanted then, I talked about having a natural birth, I read several books, I talked to one of the only doulas in town (who said she'd get back to me with a plan, but never did). I had no womanly guidance - I didn't know about MDC back then. I was high risk - 42 years old, gest. diabetes (that went away by 34 weeks - go figure), slightly high BP (which stayed normal during the pregnancy & during the entire 42 hours of birthing procedures) and I'm overweight. Certainly no midwife would touch me - no regular OB would touch me - I had a "high-risk OB" who basically agreed to whatever I said about what I wanted for my baby's birth & said, "we'll try, we'll see how it goes". I though it would help that she was a WOMAN MD - it didn't.

They scared me into it... We'll just HAVE to induce you - let's just schedule it - it's too much of a risk for you to go naturally. Your baby will be too big, your BP could skyrocket, at your age anything could happen and you're probably too fat to push out a baby anyway. At about 34 weeks it was set in the calendar. By the 38 week u/s they said my baby is probably 11 pounds by now with the GD (ignoring the fact that I kept my sugars under STRICT control the WHOLE time they were wacky) but, I guess they didn't believe me since I'm overweight. I also don't think they believed me when my sugars went back to normal all by themselves while I was still pregnant. They didn't believe me when I said my BP has never been beyond the high side of normal - I went on the ACE inhibitors (before PG when I didn't think i'd EVER be PG) mainly for the heart protection, not so much for the BP control. Now I was labeled with high BP, so it was too late, I was stuck with it.

I knew in my heart that I'm strong and healthy. Yup, I'm old & overweight, but I eat well & exercise and I do take care of myself. Grrrr... They didn't believe me or didn't care. On the Checklist I was high risk & that's all that mattered - malpractice risk was all they could see. Get this baby out "safely" - slice her open - she's a minefield of trouble!









So, I was induced...

Weds. 5 PM - we show up at the hospital for the Cervadil. 1/2 tablet - 9 PM nothing another 1/2 tablet and get some rest. By morning - nothing.

Thursday morning - crank up the PIT and strap on the external monitor. (Because you're so heavy we might have to do an internal if we cannot pick up the baby with the external - external worked fine!) We start at the minimum & then every so often (forgot how often) they'd come in and crank it up till we get to the max. By afternoon I'm having some mild contractions - I think I can handle this! It hurts, but it's not too bad. "You're not in active labor yet." They turn off the pit, we get some dinner (YEA FOOD!).

Thursday evening - go for a walk after dinner walk, walk walk, stop - SPLOOSH - water breaks! I say YEA!!! They restart the PIT - this time they say since your water is broken let's put an internal monitor on baby & an internal contrax monitor - then you can walk around if you want. (Ahhhh the coersion!) So, OK internals go in, PIT goes on & this time I get to like .8 and it's like 10 PM and the contrax are on top of each other - YOW! Non-stop & no epidural - no pain meds just YOW! Trying to breathe, I can't remember how. DH has the Birthing from Within book & starts reading to me. I can't pay attention I have no time to ever relax enough. I'm a whole 2 cm dialated. By 3 AM I'm begging for an epidural or ANYTHING - I can't open my eyes. She says I'm not dialated enough for an epidural - we can give you some fentanyl. I get a shot every hour from 3 AM till about 5 AM they work and I get some rest - after that they work less & less - the chemically induced contrax are still one on top of the other. By 7 AM she said, I'm sorry, I think we have to do a C-section, you're still 2 cm & they stop the PIT and the contrax subside a bit. At that point, I'd have cut open myself - get this baby out! 9 AM the anesthesiologist comes in & says in no time we'll have a baby and about an HOUR later they finally come back to take me into the OR.


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## Bippity (Sep 12, 2003)

(Whoa - it was too long - I have to finish in another reply?)

Here's the rest of the story...

At 11:04 AM she was born and she was NOT 11 pounds - she was exactly what I had predicted - a beautiful 8 pound 6 oz. . I cried when I saw her - cried like a baby! Then I passed out till probably 4-5 PM before I saw my baby again. Of course DH rocked her & held her in the nursery and gave her a bottle of sugar water 'cause her blood sugar was too low. Later the "other" OB in the practice comes to check on me & says, "It's a good thing Dr. X waited till I was there to do the c-section- she couldn't get your baby out alone after 4 tries- she was in a weird position and Dr. X is small and you are big and she couldn't get the leverage. I had to go in and pull out your baby." This Other OB is a woman, too.

Whew - it feels good to get that out! I guess I'm still grieving that I didn't get a natural birth in any way. I couldn't even get the doula to call me back! I regret that I let myself down and didn't keep looking for another high-risk OB that might have let me go naturally. But, maybe there aren't any that would have - that's what I was led to believe anyway - nobody in our area would do it any differently. I sort of feel like I should have just signed up for the c-section to start with, but I had a dream - not that well formed at the time, but still a dream to have a natural birth - I got to experience the pain of contrax, that's for sure, but that was the only natural thing about it & I'm really sad that dream is most likely gone forever. I really doubt I'll be having another baby & won't have a chance to try again - I'm gonna be 44 in about 2 months.

Well, for any of you that made it to the end of this saga - thank you! Thank you from the bottom of my heart for listening - nobody IRL has understood why I might be upset, so I haven't even tried to explain it before. MDC women understand & I'm grateful for that!


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tammylc*
I know we discussed sex after CS in the last thread, but at only 2 weeks postpartum, I'm definitely not ready for that yet. It still hurts to get out of bed or roll over sometimes - definitely not up for anything more acrobatic than that.

But I'm horny as all get out (must have something to do with someone sucking my nipples all day every day...). Is it okay to non-penetratively masturbate to orgasm 2 weeks after my CS?


Yes!! And have fun!


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

Beth & Mamasarah ...







and







s. You've come to the right place to work through all of your feelings about your births. Thank you for sharing your stories.


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

Anyone know how KKmama is doing and whether she delivered yet? I've been thinking about her and crossing my fingers for a successful VBAC.


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## Bippity (Sep 12, 2003)

Thanks! I just can't stop wondering if I could have had a natural birth at all, or if it's just a thing I'm hanging on to just because I really did want it & it just wasn't a realistic thought at all for me in my situation. I just don't know & it doesn't seem like anybody can answer that for me, either.


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bippity*
Thanks! I just can't stop wondering if I could have had a natural birth at all, or if it's just a thing I'm hanging on to just because I really did want it & it just wasn't a realistic thought at all for me in my situation. I just don't know & it doesn't seem like anybody can answer that for me, either.










You may never know.









I think at this point, with the unlikely hood of having another child its important just to work through this and try to heal. My aunt had to have a hysterectomy right before Christmas (44) and she had an almost 2 year old but was planning another pregnancy. She was devastated. Even sadder, her hysterectomy would have been unnecessary had the doctor done his job six months earlier.

Take care of you and your little one!
Kim


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

I've been wondering about KKmama too......


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## mamasarah (May 28, 2002)

thanks so much for all the support everyone.

bippity, i hope it felt good to get your story out. sorry for how terribly you were treated.

hugs to everyone!


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

I wanted my 1000th post to be on my favorite thread on MDC.


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## Kiki Runs (Oct 7, 2002)

Woo - Hoo! Congratulations, Kim. I'm soo jealous of you - I lurk too much to ever get my post count up there.









Kinsey


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

Kim

I am glad you decided to have your party here.













































Let the wild rumpus start! :LOL


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

YAY Kim!!

I'm slightly over 4000 and I try and change my sr title every 1000 posts...but i like this one too much!

What is yours going to be???


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

Way to go Kim!


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

I was thinking Cesarean Queen.


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OnTheFence*
I was thinking Cesarean Queen.

How 'bout Cesarean Goddess?


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

Cesarean

Are you allowed to use that word in public for the WHOLE board to see....


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## Al Dente (Jan 8, 2004)

(((BIPPITY)))

Woohoo onthefence! Way to go on 1000!









Okay, I've been reading that many of you are grieving the loss of natural childbirth. What advice do you have for me then, because it's my DH that's really grieving it? We went through Bradley and he was so psyched to be a big part of the birth experience. When we got to the c/b he refused to cut the cord b/c they had already cut it, and he wanted it to be the complete cord like in a vaginal birth.

I must admit that I am NOT grieving the loss of ncb...I was so relieved by the time I had the c/b that I would have taken any method to get the baby out just about. I was two weeks past due after having had a horrible pregnancy, throwing up multiple times every day, and I just wanted it to be over. I knew there was no way it was going to happen vaginally unless I was willing to keep going overdue. We found out D wasn't anywhere near proper birth positioning...how much longer should I have waited? My doula said maybe two more weeks and I said no way. Too scary for me and frankly I couldn't handle being pregnant one more day.

But now I feel that dh thinks I sold out, or at the very least was too "weak" to wait and see if things happened naturally. I know he didn't carry this baby or go through the hypermesis, but he was there for me tremendously, and I feel guilty because he's sad about it.

Anyway...that's my situation. (The reason this is coming up now is b/c dh promised me some jewelry when Darian was born, way before the c/b happened; then after the birth he backed out because I didn't deliver him, they "cut him out". I said forget the jewelry, just acknowledge what I went through!)
Thanks for reading my vent.


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Henry's_Mamma*
How 'bout Cesarean Goddess?










Thats it, I am going to do it!


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Can someone tell me how to get my senior member name? help me....


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

I think it's just in the user CP- as you can see I haven't decided on mine yet. I like Cesarean Goddess, but I was thinking something that shows how you help women in need of c-sections, I just can't think. hmmm....


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OnTheFence*
Thats it, I am going to do it!









Glad to help. Can't wait to see it!


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

You have to pm cynthia for your sr title....

Rach-- I'mnot sure what to say but it sounds like your dh is being a baby. I know he is disappointed but he is belittling your entire experience. He needs to just grow up. Nothing is going to change. My dh was disappointed too but after all you go through in pregnancy and childbirth (no matter how it happens) it is an amazing thing! I mean, sperm and egg meet...then BAM!! you have a little person! That is amazing in itself...who cares how baby got here. Would he feel the same way if you had had invitro or fertility treatments. I thought it was the end result that counted.

oops....







: I didn't mean to sound snippy....I just started typing and it came out.


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## KKmama (Dec 6, 2001)

Welcome and big hugs to the new people (mamasarah and bippity). I'm always amazed (and often saddened) by other women's birth stories...

Kinsey, big hugs to you (I'm kind of catching up on the past few pages of the thread, which I haven't read carefully). I guess I have a different take on your situation... you were *there* at your birth, you know what you went through--if you feel that your dh failed you, that's valid, and it's something you're going to have to process. I think it's totally normal to have a lot of mixed and/or bad feelings about cesareans and the contributions of all the players involved. In a lot of cases (yours included), we're talking about complicated, confusing, negative situations.

Let's all try to just be as supportive of each other as we can--where we're at in "digesting" our births, how we feel about them, etc. Kinsey makes a lot of insightful points about her birth experience; part of the reason she feels bad is that she feels like her C was unnecessary. That is totally valid, and a lot of women here feel that way (or feel that way in part). It makes me sad, but I honor your grief, Kinsey. Kim, I think you meant well, but what you offered what not what Kinsey needed, and she said so. I'm glad you guys worked out a truce.









Rach, I agree with Megan--your dh is being a baby! Yeah, he lost out on the experience, but *you* were the one who was cut. What you both experienced was still a birth; it just wasn't a birth that met your prior expectations (can happen with a V birth, too). Jeez... if *men* could experience pregnancy and childbirth, I think they'd be more supportive and respectful (I say this to everyone else who has complained about their dh recently, too).

And here's an update (for Amy and everyone else







). I haven't had my baby yet. I've had several rounds (4?) of increasingly "serious" contractions over the last week or so. In each round, the contrax are closer together, longer, stronger, more painful. Each time, I've thought, "This is it," and it's been kind of exciting (because I never experienced labor with ds), but they end after several hours. My ob has been great--she feels like it's a good sign, that my body is really just warming up, and one of these times, I'll actually go into "real" labor, that this is a gentle way for my body to prepare. I'm more dilated and effaced than I ever was with ds (which was zero!), and the baby is in a great position, and slowly grinding its way downward







, which is also kind of exciting. Whatever happens, it has been wonderful to experience what I've experienced so far, because it's all so new! Anyway, I'm also 5 days past my due date. My dh and doula seem a little impatient, but fortunately, my ob is not at all and has been really great. We have not discussed "what next" at all (in part because I could just go into labor without any nudging, and in part because she feels like I'm very healthy and don't need to be overly concerned about the calendar yet). I think if I make it into next week without going into labor, I will consider having my membranes stripped, and if that doesn't work, a few days later maybe AROM. As I told dh, if my waters break and I don't go into labor, I have a limited amount of time in which to have the baby (and a limited number of options to try to get labor going before having to have a repeat C), whereas with the sac intact, I have a lot more time on the calendar for my body to continue doing its thing itself. Anyway, more than you probably wanted to know.


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

hi all

just wanted to bump this up.


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

OTF- when is your senior name coming? I realized that Cesarean Goddess is just perfect- like someone you seek help from when having a cesarean (or after one)







--- it takes me a minute sometimes :LOL.


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## mommy2three (Apr 6, 2003)

Hi Mamas!

First I have to say I didn't get to read all of your stories and responses because I only have a few minutes (my 22 month old is taking a little snooze but who knows how long it'll last- LOL)

Anyway, I wanted to post about my upcoming C-section but was afraid to on Mothering because I have had too many mamas yell at me (or what feels like yelling) when I mention C-section. So, thank you so much for this thread! (And please, if you have anything negative to say about my c-section decision...please keep it to yourself...)

Just a little history, I had my twins by emergency section at 31 weeks when Baby A's heart flatlined and they had to take them out immediatly. It took a little longer than they hoped and because of the lack of oxygen he has mild Cerebral Palsey (but of course could have been a lot worse so I am forever thankful to those doctors).

My second birth was a planned C-section because I was afraid of V-Bac (after doing tons of research). Sam was over 10 pounds and over 2 weeks early... a big guy







I don't regret the decision but I had a really hard recovery! I was in so much pain and could barely get around for almost a month and I am petrified that will happen again this time.

This one is another planned section







and I am so scared that I will have another hard recovery! I nurse my babies exclusevely and right after their birth and I'm so afraid of the recovery. Does anyone have any hints to help with the recovery? They didn't let me walk around until the next day and I know I had terrible gas pain (excuse if TMI) but I'm not sure how to make sure that doesn't happen again. After my twins' section I was up and moving to take care of my premies and don't remember a hard recovery but that could be because I went into mother mode with sick babies?

Anyway, thank you so much for any suggestions or support you can offer. I really do dream about having an unassisted birth but because of my own health and my Vbac scares I am doing another section. But I figure as long as my baby is born healthy I guess there is no reason I should get depressed about having a section, right? Ok, anyway...I'm trying to tell myself that


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## mommy2three (Apr 6, 2003)

AlliRose & Kinsey (that's the only posts I've been able to read so far... ). I'm so moved by your experiences that I had to stop reading Alli's because I'm crying and post something. Thank you all for sharing your experience with us... I have to get the tears out of my eyes and go get my 22 month old who I hear decided not to nap afterall







I'll continue reading all the other section stories when my kiddies allow me more free time


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## Kiki Runs (Oct 7, 2002)

Mommy2three - They wouldn't let you walk around until the next day??! To me, that's crazy! I think you need to get up and start moving as soon as you can. Not saying do aerobics, or anything crazy, but it's really soo much easier a recovery if you can start moving early.

When I had DS, I was walking w/in an hour of being "released" from recovery (which wasn't until about 1.5-2 hours after the c. GRRRR. That's a different story). I kept walking (every three hours, down to the NICU and back) until, well, now!









I really think that all that walking, while probably a bit more than I should have been doing, helped me avoid stiffening up and getting extremely sore.

Oh yeah, when I started trying to nurse DS, everyone (seriously, EVERYONE - the NICU nurses, my mom, my recovery nurses, the "LC") insisted that I HAD to have a pillow on my belly for my "comfort". It took me a while to realize that it was really hurting me! It took even longer for me to find my voice and tell everyone that I REALLY didn't need that dam* pillow. (Unfortunately, I'm not kidding - the LC stood there and argued w/me







: ). Some women love pillows/Boppys, but I was one of the ones who just did better w/out it. If you need it, great, but if it hurts, try w/out. I was able to just hold DS in my arms w/no pressure on my belly, and it worked wonderfully.

I hope everything goes well for you.

Kinsey


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

bump


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## bwylde (Feb 19, 2004)

I've been having strange sensations in my incision the larger my pregnant belly gets, especially when the baby moves in that area (which is a lot; all the movement seems to be located at the base of my incision). Sometimes it feels like it's going to split right open, which I know it won't but I can't imagine how it will feel as I get bigger







: . Has anyone else experienced this? Does it get worse as the pregnancy progresses? (I'm about 6.5 months along right now)


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## mommy2three (Apr 6, 2003)

Hi Carla,

Well, the good news is that your incision won't split open







The bad news is it may hurt, feel stretchy as you get bigger (if it's anything like my experience). I'm good so far this time (this is my third preg/ 4th baby) and I don't feel much stretching in my incision this time but I'm only 20 weeks so ask me in a couple months







You know where I'm feeling stretching??? In my apendix scar!!!! My apendix burst last Sept. and my incision is driving me crazy during this preg... weird







But I have the same feeling, like it's going to pop open.

Kind of off topic, I put belly salve on my pregnant belly the last two pregnancies but I haven't this time. I thought that was the reason I never got any stretch marks or itchy feeling but we'll have to see if I get that way this time since I haven't been using any salve.


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

Carla-- I think it depends on the person. I didn't have a lot of incision pain till close to the end. ....well, I guess around the time you are having it now.

It was worse depending on where baby was. I tried to keep him off the spot that hurt. Convincing an unborn child to not hurt you isnt easy


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## bwylde (Feb 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *its_our_family*
It was worse depending on where baby was. I tried to keep him off the spot that hurt. Convincing an unborn child to not hurt you isnt easy









Lol, that's true! I have a hard enough time convincing my toddler to stay off it. (oh, I forgot to mention I have the "classical" incision, belly button to bottom of my stomach so it's a pretty big area). It feels really tight on the outside, but then I had a lot of slack skin there before.

I see the OB on Thursday so I'll finally find out what's going to happen to me this time around regarding giving birth. I have acceptance either way (although part of me kind of wants the same birth this time as it wasn't a bad experience for me last time, although this time I have a very attached toddler to worry about).


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## rainbowmoon (Oct 17, 2003)

hi mamas! I haven't posted in awhile...still processing my c/b!

though my c/b turned out to be a really positive experience DH and I are really questioning one of the MW's actions during my labor (before I transferred to the hospital and labored with another MW & Dr.)

I'm prety sure I would have ended up with a c/b regardless due to ds positioning as he was aclyntic(sp) so I'm not placing any blame at all, just having some issues over the labor coming up..

anyway at one point during labor this particular MW questioned mine & DH relationship,my upbringing and also censored me! it was really strange and the more I think about it the more it really bothers me (and DH as well). I have talked to several people (and another MW) about this and they all think what was said/asked was hugely innapropriate. it actually took us until this past weekend to figure out that my labor started to stall about the time that the conversation in question took place. ugh. i really didn't think much about it at the time but do remember watching what I was saying during my labor around her after she made her comments though I totally didn't recognize it at the time. anyway I really feel like such an idiot now for not protecting my space! I know better than that!!!

otherwise i have been making it a priority to do lots of bodywork the last couple weeks (ie;massage,exercise,hydrotherapy) and it's been a rollercoaster as I really notice my emotions about the c/b emerging because of it. i must say though it's really helped me process things further and is helping me start to heal on an emotional level. not to mention I'm feeling absolutley great physically! (finally!) I am dying to start pilates but have decided to wait another couple of weeks as I'm a little paranoid about working on my abs right now since I've been mostly pain free other than the occasional needlelike electric twinge.

anyway thanks for reading & for the support, this thread has really helped me get through this!


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

rainbowmoon--It sounds like you are doing well!! As for your mw.... that is weird. Most mw would know not to say anything "stupid" during labor for just that reason.

I saw on another psot that things are moving along for KKmama. It sounded like she was in early labor.... I hope she had that vbac!!!


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## mamasarah (May 28, 2002)

mommy2three, just wanted to welcome you to our circle!









i've been lurking a lot here today, rereading some stories. i think the book my MIL just gave my dd got things stirred up in me... it has all these pictures from the hospital the night dd was born, and i'm not in any of them. that just breaks my heart.

anybody else get reminders of a negative birth experience like that?

Racheepoo~in response to your post about your dh... i think that in the case of birth it is so hard for men to relate to us that this sometimes puts us on opposite poles. in my case, dh didn't understand my feelings for sooo long regarding the birth. in yours, it sounds like he can't understand how you feel, and just zooms in on his own experience( i guess this is basically what my hubbie did just in a different way). but there is absolutely no reason for you to feel guilty and he should not make you feel bad for how things turned out. that is just selfish for him to do that! don't let him make you feel bad. you did your best and went through a rough time! hugs to you.


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## wrensmom (Feb 4, 2004)

Hey rainbowmoon-glad to have you here. It's good to hear you are doing lots of self care. That is so important for new mamas. I agree its really weird that your mw would make such an innappropriate comment during labor. However, don't make yourself feel too bad about protecting your space. . .you were busy having a baby so your mind and body were focused on that process.


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## tuffykenwell (Oct 23, 2002)

Bear with me on the links...I wrote my entire birth story out once and I will never do it again so I just link to it when I talk about it. My initial birth story was written here . Notice the brevity and lack of details (and honestly the complete denial of what had happened to me...the anger came about 3 months after birth). My full birth story is here .

So now Rhys is two years old and I am pregnant again. I am still anger (though I have managed to give myself a huge piece of the blame by now because I didn't tell ANYONE no!)

I didn't tell the midwife no I would like to wait when she scheduled my induction at 42 weeks. I found out when Rhys was 3 months old that induction is recommended but not required at 42 weeks. I could have gone to 43 weeks with little argument. Keeping in mind that Rhys due date was determined by dating us with no confirmation us so it was "soft" to begin with.

I didn't tell the doctor no when he decided to break my water. I didn't tell the nurse to f&*^ off even though I managed to express the sentiment to my husband, my mother and my MIL when they started parroting her sentiments.

Honestly I have always avoided this thread like the plague because I don't ever want another cesearean and honestly I figured this thread was pro-cesearean. Not sure why I poked my head in today but Kinsey's story in particular hit a cord with me so I am spilling my guts.

I am planning a homebirth vbac (if I go before 42 weeks). If I get to 42 weeks again I will be planning a hospital vbac. If I get to 43 weeks I may have to do some pretty fancy dancing to get the doctor to give me another week but presuming I get a good us with good fluid levels that is what my aim is. If I get to 44 weeks I am approaching the edge of my comfort level...I may agree to an induction with pitocin only without rupture of membranes so that if it doesn't take I still have the option to go home wait a few days and try again.

Before this current phobia about going over dates everyone in my family was at least 3 weeks late for every pregnancy. I think that some people just gestate for longer and I may be one of them (although there was some doubt that Rhys was actually late due to the fact that he was coated in vernix).

People have already mentioned Rhys' size as the reason he would not descend...sorry I don't buy it. Rhys wasn't ready to be born...period. My mother weighed in at 10 pounds 14 ounces when she was born (at home...postdates....to a first time mother). My grandmother is built much like I am in the hip area so if she could push my mother out I am thinking I should have been able to push Rhys out...of course I never even got the chance because the induction failed.

I might feel differently if I had been pushing for hours and hours but then it would still come down to my body not being ready due to the induction. Induction can't make someone ready who isn't (thus the increase in cesearean rates with women who are induced).

Do you know that not one person told me that being induced for a first baby raised my risk of cesearean to between 40 and 50%....grrr.

So this time I am being a complete PITA patient LOL. I am trying to set up my attack plan early so that I don't have many surprises (I discovered with Rhys' birth that I don't like things just "happening" to me so I need to plan for the good the bad and the ugly).

A friend of mine had an 11 pound 2 ounce vbac after having a cesearean for her first (who was around 9 pounds I believe)...man did that make me want to shout from the rooftops







Of course I would prefer a 9 pounder though LOL...not holding my breath on getting a 7 pound peanut unless there is some serious deviation from the family trend LOL!

I truly believe that everyone women has to walk her own path to figure out what is best for her and her baby. I am not against ercs per say...just against ercs *for me* KWIM??

So what do you think...do I belong here?

Steph


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tuffykenwell*
So what do you think...do I belong here?

Steph ... yes, you belong here so







.







This is a place for _anyone_ who has had a c/s (for whatever reason or lack thereof) to discuss their feelings, emotions, frustrations, etc. about their birth experiences. It is also a place for anyone who is contemplating an erc/s or who needs to have a c/s for other reasons (transverse presentation, placenta previa, for example) to prepare for that experience.

Not everyone here who had a c/s with a prior birth is planning a c/s with their subsequent births. Rather, everyone here is discussing what makes the most sense for them and sharing their feelings as they make and process those decisions. I am reminded that one of our frequent contributors appears to be in labor and is trying for a hospital VBAC right now. Another one of our frequent contributors recently chose to have an ercs. Both women made informed choices and both appear (so far) to be happy with their decisions. But they were free to discuss their feelings here about these births and about their prior c/s.

Anyway, I'm rambling on ... I will read your stories in a bit. I too have 2 stories -- the "real" one and the "denial" one. I think that's part of the healing process.

Amy


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## rainbowmoon (Oct 17, 2003)

welcome steph!









read about kkmama on another thread! I hope all is well!

omg i can totally relate to the 2 stories!!! I am just now considering rewriting mine (for personal reflection). it's funny now that i've had time to think it through a thousand times, I remember things I did not remember then. I also believe I had some denial (at the time of birth and the few weeks after) but had decided at the time of my son's birth no matter what happened I was going to stay absolutley positive and deal with my stuff later on as to not bring down our birth experience and bonding as a new family. now the sh*t is hitting the fan so to speak.lol.

DH and I have started a list of stuff we'd like to avoid/do next time should we end up with another hospital birth. (we will be planning a VBAC at home) we have been having lengthy discussions about my c/b almost daily. i know it's been extremely emotional & exhausting for both of us but helping work through some issues. at first DH thought I was just totally *fine* he did not realize the emotional stuff would come out eventually. luckily he's a pretty understanding & sensitive guy, for that I'm thankful.

so how many of you had c/b's due to positioning I'm wondering? my babe was good sized (9.5oz) but was in a really bad position as he turned while starting descending and they could feel his ear when they checked me. I pushed for hours and he would move down then right back up as soon as I stopped pushing and was seemingly stuck. I had read optimal feotal positioning while pg but did not take it serious enough IMHO. I am now reading everything I can get my hands on now!


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

Rainbowmoon ... Henry was a peanut (6 lbs. 15 oz.) but was posterior. I couldn't push him past my pubic bone. But there are many more reasons for my c/b than that.

In other news ... dh seems to be coming around to the idea of an HBAC. I also finally got the guts to request my medical records from both hospital and OB. I'm really ready to dig into the nitty gritty of everything.


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## tuffykenwell (Oct 23, 2002)

Actually to be totally honest the c-sect was the most humane part of my birth experience and what I am really angry about is everything that happened before I decided to have the c. Mine truly was unnecessary (it was a true failed induction...my body just wasn't ready to birth and even though I was "officially" 42 weeks plus 2 days my date was "soft" because it was based on a single early us. I found out after Rhys birth that single dating us aren't really that accurate (better to have a follow up a couple of weeks later if a dating us is really required...in my case I hadn't had a period in 3 months but I KNEW I wasn't 3 months pregnant).

At this point I have already stated that I don't think that another c-sect would be the worst thing...but I am worried about the implications of repeat c on my chances of conceiving and birthing additional children. I know some women have 4+ c's with absolutely no problems but I also know a dear friend who ended up with a 3rd surgery to correct adhesions after 2 c's who eventually went on to have a hysterectomy at 25 due to problems associated with her c's....that WOULD be the worst thing KWIM?? Problem is that you can't know before hand which person you will end up being (sometimes a crystal ball would be a really nice thing to have!)

Plus I want to experience that sticky newborn against my tummy. I want to be the first person to touch my babe (I'd actually like to catch







). Last time DH got to hold DS for 40 minutes while they were stitching me up...he looks back on that time with great fondness (and I am grateful that DH was holding him during that time and that DS wasn't hustled off to the nursery...actually my hospital only has an NICU so that wasn't a problem







)

I get really irritated when people act like I am being selfish though...I am a research nut to be honest so for people to act like I am being reckless really ticks me off! ARGH!!!

I think I am toddling off to bed now LOL!

Steph


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## Ravin (Mar 19, 2002)

I've only read a couple of pages of this thread but I need to get this out.

I was lying awake in bed and getting so angry I had to come downstairs. DD is 7 1/2 months old, and I still get so worked up and angry over her birth. Everyone around me doesn't think I should feel that way. They give me platitudes about "at least she's healthy", etc. Even the LD nurse who's a friend of mine who was my nurse through my whole labor (extended her shift then stayed past it to see me through to recovery) doesn't get it.

I quite frankly feel like I was violated. I was caught off guard and told my DD was in trouble. I folded like a paper kite in a rainstorm. I read about these other births and how other moms went over 24 hours and did everything possible to avoid a C-sec and then got stuck with it anyway and I feel like such a loser.

I never wanted to see the inside of a hospital, but I couldn't afford a midwife, medicaid would only pay for a hospital birth. So I had my plan all laid out, written down, approved by my doctor (who was recommended by the midwife I couldn't afford). He seemed to have the right attitude, and everything went great, until I went postdate.

I jumped through hoops and showed up for monitoring every 3 days, which almost every time resulted in a trip to the hospital for a nonstress test because DD had a habit of knocking the monitor off when she moved.

All well and good, and I held him off for almost 2 weeks. I set the scheduled induction date for 42 wks 1 day, a monday, which was the latest the doctor would let me, and he wasn't happy about it, either. The preceding Friday I was at the hospital for yet another nonstress test.

DD passed but the doctor wanted me to stay and be induced anyway. If I hadn't been afraid of the resulting bill for leaving AMA (medicaid wouldn't pay for the test if I left AMA), I would have walked out of there. At the very least I would have gone home and gotten a shower and eaten a good lunch. By the time I was admitted it was one in the afternoon and I hadn't eaten since about seven thirty that morning.

We got to the LDR room and there was no shower. I was hot and tired and upset, it was 100 degrees outside and our car getting there had no A/C and I hadn't had a shower since midday the day before. So I cried, and the nurses comforted me. DH was gone, had gone to get my hospital bag and call my mom (she had to drive from TX to join us).

I don't think DD was ready. But there I was, after all my research on why I should avoid induction w/ pitocin, getting the stuff dripping into my arm.

I am stubborn. Even as things cascaded in the wrong direction I tried. I really did.







I labored on the pit w/ no pain meds for 10 hours from when the contrax got going. (I'd had braxton hicks for quite a while, and was already dialated to 3 cm when I went in). They kept having to turn the pit down because DD's heart rate would drop after every contraction. The contractions would slow down, DD would do better, they'd turn the pit up, DD's heart rate would drop, etc.

Finally they said they'd probably have to do a C-sec. I was only 6 cm dialated and she wasn't handling the contractions. They said they could try doing an epidural, that it might make me relax and she might respond better, and if not I'd be ready for the C-sec.

I felt like such a failure, and that stupid needle hurt more than any of my contractions. Yet another intervention I didn't want.

Right after the epidural kicked in, meconium showed up in my waters (my water had broken some time before, but it gushed and gushed and gushed because I had a LOT of amniotic fluid, the reason the doc wanted to induce).

I just have this sure feeling that if I'd turned and run the other way and not let them induce me that day, I'd have gone into labor over the weekend and DD would have been fine.

So they took me in, I was shaking, spreadeagled, couldn't see anything... DH held my hand, a nurse told me to not try to stop shivering because that would just make it worse. I remember as they wheeled me in I asked the doctor to make sure he double stitched my uterus, because it would increase the chances of a successful VBAC. He commented that I must do a lot of reading, and that no one had ever asked him that before, then said he would.

I feel like I was violated...did I say that earlier? My DD wasn't born, my body was cut open and she was pulled out before she was ready. Due date notwithstanding, I really think she just wasn't quite ready and we tried to force it with the induction so she protested and was in distress.

So I feel like I was violated, and that it was in large part my fault, with DH no help. I'd have planned an unassisted birth if he hadn't been so uncomfortable with the idea.

And now I can't ever have a homebirth. We're unlikely to move away from here, and in AZ VBAC's have to be attended by a doctor through the whole thing. So not only did I blow my first birth, but subsequent ones are likely to go wrong and be stuck w/ a hospital setting, too. The best I can hope for is the one birth center in the Phoenix Metro area.

I'm mad at myself, at the hospital and their policies, and at my OB. I'm mad at the state medicaid program. I'm just so angry, I felt so helpless but that I should have done something differently anyway.

Well, this is already too long, so I'll just shut up, cry some more, and read the other posts on this thread.


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

Ravin,









I think it is good that you got that out. There are lots of mamas who post to these threads who feel much the way you do. We are all in different places with healing and acceptance, and we are all here to listen and support each other.

You have every right to be disappointed and all the other feelings you have are valid too. Your child is alive and well, yes, and thanks goodness, but you still have every right to your feelings surrounding the birth, take your time in healing, and let us help.


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

Ravin-- Your stopry sounds a lot like my own. It took me a year to accept my birth experience. I had done the reasearch but the induction was MY idea. Dh was leaving town and the ob was "guaranteeing" that I would go into labor that weekend. I had had prodomal labor for about 10 days not to mention the 3 false alrams and the preterm labor for weeks. But they induced me... they rated me high on that scale for induction success. I had the pit for 14 hours and my contrax were lasting anywhere from 45-60 minutes in length. The ob said I was bordering on uterine rupture. When they turned off the pit the contrax evened out but they insisted on turning the pit back up even though I was contracting fine









I ended up with the c/b. It was an ok birth. By the end of 14 hours i was ready to have that baby no matter what.

My point is that it takes time. Realizing that your pissed about it just makes it easier...well, not really easier but it makes it a reality you can work with.









ANyone heard from KKmama???


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## tammylc (Apr 4, 2004)

Ravin - I don't know the details of the homebirth situation in AZ. Are lay midwives legal? You might be able to find one who'd let you HBAC. My midwives here in Michigan do it all the time, but lay midwifery in MI is alegal, so they're not subject to rules like you mention.


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## rainbowmoon (Oct 17, 2003)

How does one find out what the lay midwifery laws are in thier state? how would this apply to a lay midwife that is from another country? (ie;mexico) or an unnasisted birth?

I am in AZ also and am planning to HBAC with our next child, it is a decision I plan to stand firm on, regardless of the law.


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## rainbowmoon (Oct 17, 2003)

sorry pressed send too soon...

Ravin- I'm so sorry mama





















i can relate to how you feel towards DH as our situation was very similiar. we had planned to UC but then DH got cold feet over the situation so we planned a birth center birth. I feel like i did it to please him and have alot of resentment over it now. I'm not blaming him for our c/s at all, but just wishing we had decided to do things differently.


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## wrensmom (Feb 4, 2004)

tuffykenwell and ravin welcome.
tuffykenwell-ugh, your birth story mad me so mad and sad for you. I'm sorry you had such a horrible nurse. She certainly was not advocating for you. I also missed/mourn holding my sticky slimy baby on my sweaty chest after delivery.

ravin-PLEASE don't feel like a loser for not going longer. From what I understand pitocin induced contx are sooooooo much stronger and harder to handle than naturally induced contx. Makes sense doesn't it? I can't believe you labored so long without an epidural on pitocin.

Sorry for the cliche, but hindsight is 20/20. I say this because I have been beating myself up for things I did or didn't not do during my labor. I think is is beneficial to be reflective about our experiences but I'm trying really hard to not take all the blame or place it somewhere else. I have done lots of research since dd's arrival (I thought I had done tons beforehand) and I know of some things that could have been differently.

Rainbowmoon, my dd was acynclitic and posterior.

Also, I just wanted to mention that I've been reading about unassisted births. The stories have been helpful for me in gaining confidence in my body and ability to birth a baby. Reading about all this women delivering their own babies is so powerful. Lots of the sotries talk about how the women instinctivly knew what to do. I think that being under the care of someone else, an authority/expert, tends to detract from our ability to listen to and trust our instincts. Lots of our stories on this thread seem to illustrate these situations. i.e. tuffykenwell and ravin not thinking their bodies/babes were ready for inductions.

edited to add: I also feel like I didn't listen to my instincts. One example is that my mw kept wanting to break my bag since I wasn't dilating and dd wasn't coming down. I kept refusing feeling like I need the bag intact for some reason. Finally, I gave in and let her do it. In my reasearch since the birth I read that having an intact bag can help a posterior baby move into the correct birthing postition since it provides a bit of a cushion.


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## Ravin (Mar 19, 2002)

Thanks y'all. By the light of day I feel better. I know what you mean about hindsight, and when I'm in a more positive mood I focus on the here and now--after all, platitude or not, DD is here and she is healthy--and on next time, which is still several years down the road.

The MANA website has a table on the legality of homebirth state to state, and for many states it includes a link to the relative laws. In AZ, direct entry midwives must be licensed, and are not allowed to attend a birth for a woman who has had any kind of uterine surgery, including C-section. This doesn't mean a HBAC is illegal, just that the usual homebirth attendant can't attend one. Theoretically an MD can, but good luck finding an OB or FP who'll do housecalls. Unassisted is still a possibility.


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

I guess I'm in the minority. I thought my body and baby were ready for the induction. Tracy was posterior. But I didn't know how to try and turn him and my ob wouldn't listen and said I had no way of knowing...maybe the back labor was a good sign....

Anyway, I don't know why it went like it did. I was 40 weeks when I had my c/b with Bryce and he showed no signs of dropping and was also posterior. I wonder if it IS my body. If I get pg again...in the distant future if ever again... I plan to vbac... well, I intended it this time but changed my mind. But I have confidence that my body can do it...now I do... It's like I needed one more c/b to feel ready to vbac... does that make sense??


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## rainbowmoon (Oct 17, 2003)

thanks for the info. Ravin, I have searched alot but keep coming up with really confusing pages..i hope you can find some peace and healing in this thread btw. I know it's helped me tremendously.

its_our_family- i totally know how you feel. i feel like my c/s has given me great courage in a wierd sort of way.

wrensmom-i did not listen to my instincts regarding my birth and now regret that. DH rationalizes by saying things like "what would have happened if we had the UC and you needed the c/s?" it's a hard question to answer. one I really have no answer for.


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## MichaelsMom01 (Jun 10, 2002)

Good Day beautiful c-section mamas!!!

Man, I wish I had looked here for support years ago!!!! Kinsey, it can take a really long time to recover emotionally from c-section when you are so geared toward anything but! Allow yourself PLENTY of time to heal. My ds is 3 and I still have trouble with it. The thing that I've learned is that the more I tell my story the better I feel and I don't really care if my friends/family are sick of hearing it!!!

I had planned a homebirth. I had a midwife, doula, dh, and best friends in attendance for my "birth". After 12 hours of PUSHING, I finally started screaming "Get me a knife!!! I'll get it out!!!" That's when they finally took me to the hospital. After having been in labor for 36 hours and pushing for 12 of those, I was ready for anything and everything necessary to end my suffering. I had done everything ahead of time to avoid medical intervention, but in the end it was what saved my life.

Still, I felt like my body had failed and that made me a failure as well. How could my body betray me? I had done everything I was supposed to do. I had a beautiful pregnancy and planned a beautiful birth. 3 weeks later I had post partum hemmorhage TWICE! I lost 2/3's of my blood supply and had to have 2 blood transfusions. I very nearly died and had to sign a consent form for an emergency hysterectomy. Luckily that didn't happen.

After all these years, I still struggle with it. My dh and I had wanted a 3 kid family. Now I'm totally terrified of doing it again. I just came from a doctor's appt with my new midwife. She's been counseling me for 2 years now. I've just started entertaining the idea of having another child. I haven't been able to commit to it completely, but at least I've begun healing enough that I can entertain the thought.

Tell your story. Tell it again and again and again. The more you tell it, the madder you get, the better you feel and the less power it has over you. You start to be the one feeling strong and powerful again.

Now that I toy with the idea of trying again I wonder if I would elect for a c-section just to avoid traumatizing myself again or would I actually try a vbac? I can't say. There are risks and complications with both - given my history. People always tell me my ds would love a sibling. My response? Would he rather have a sibling or his mother? But every time I tell my story I feel a little better, a little stronger and a little more in control of the outcome.

Be weak! Cry, be mad. Whatever it takes and some day you will triumph!
Good luck!!!

Many Blessings,
heidi


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Heidi,

OMG, pushing for 12 hours!? I dont see how you lasted that long --

Welcome to all the newcomers, all our welcome on our little thread, whether you are sad, mad, angry, happy or satisfied!

Kim


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

I am really thinking of getting pregnant again. Had a scare this month, and had mixed emotions. Luckily this slip up gave DH and I an opportunity to think about expanding our family. He is up for another job (please send good job vibes) with more money and if he gets it, we have talked about starting late summer for baby no. 4.

I think about VBAC, though I know its VERY unlikely. I mean everything would have to be perfect for it to happen so I am looking at doing a repeat.

One thing I notice about our forum and others where moms who planned one birth and ended with a csection, the majority of us made a decision at one time or another, that okay we are going for a surgical birth. I am interested in knowing what got you to that point. Fear? Exhausten? Pressure? Gut?

I know for me, up until I went into the ER with Elizabeth I was fighting the csection. (weird transverse breech, failed ECV and other methods) but with Jack, I planned everything out, trusted my instincts and felt very comfortable with my choice.


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## Al Dente (Jan 8, 2004)

rainbowmoon-you asked how many of us had c/b due to positioning. I was one. He was transverse until 37 wks and finally turned, but about as far away from the birth canal as he could get. I still don't know why...and that's one thing I struggle with. If there had been a REASON I would be totally accepting of the c/b.

I'm hearing a lot of us feel like our bodies failed us. I do too, although I was at the end of my rope and it was my decision not to wait until 44 wks like my doula told me to. I need to believe there is a reason for everything and a purpose, so that's what I'm coming to grips with now. It makes me wonder whether ds will be an only child.

I also feel much of it was my attitude-I was so tense and nervous that something would happen to him in utero that I constantly stressed about every little thing. So going 2 wks "over" was the best I could do to allow my body time; who knows if an extra 2 wks would have made a difference and whether I could have experienced a v/b? Anyone else have the feeling that maybe next time they will be more relaxed, having already had one child? I hope I will.

Anyway,







to all. Heidi, I really hear you that telling the story empowers you; nice to have you join us.

Kim-my reason for finally deciding on the c/b was the timing and the fact that I had been so sick. Probably if I'd had a better pregnancy I would have waited it out a bit more.

Rachel


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

to the new people.

Heidi ... 12 hours of pushing? You deserve a medal for that feat alone. I'm impressed, mama. But you are right about the story telling thing. Each time I tell it I have a different range of emotions, and each time I think I grow in my understanding.

Rainbowmoon ... Ds was posterior. I pushed for 2+ hours but didn'r really get any where. Of course no one told me he was posterior until I was nearly fully dilated & pushing. (You'd think the back labor would've clued me in ...) Had I had a less managed birth and been allowed to move around more earlier in my labor, I wonder if we could've convinced ds to rotate.


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## AnaNicole (Jan 30, 2004)

Just posted an update as a new thread but will post here more soon! We're well on our way here, getting closer and closer to what my hilarious husband calls, "The Great Extraction."

He cracks himself up.

Still have many questions, like--do amnios hurt?

More tomorrow after my OB visit.


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

Why I chose a repeat vs VBAC

I think if you just think back about 4.5 months you can remember all of the unanswered questions that I had about vbac. I didn't feel like my heart was in it. I wanted to do it but why?

Was I doing it for myself? Was I trying to prove I could do it...to who, me, you, everyone else? What was my motivation? Was I doing this for my own ego or for the benefit of my child? Did I want a pat on the back from me, my dh, my family, from those here?

I had so many things going through my head in the end that I had to stop and just listen to me, my baby, and my body. Baby was showing me that he was trying to get as far away from the birth canal as possible. He went engaged to just head down and floating, to breech and back again. At the last minute I opted for a repeat.

I liked going vbac because I felt like I had an option. I jsut have this feeling that if I had chosen repeat initially I would have missed out on the labor prep (which I believe helped prepare me for AMAZING birth experience that I had), I wouldn't have been able to change my mind to vbac.

I'm happy with my choice and if I do ever have another baby I intend on vbac-ing...and maybe sticking with it. My pg with Bryce at the end was wonderful. I could have been pregnant for another month and if I wouldn't have chosen a repeat I have no doubt in my mind I would have


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AnaNicole*
Just posted an update as a new thread but will post here more soon! We're well on our way here, getting closer and closer to what my hilarious husband calls, "The Great Extraction."

He cracks himself up.

Still have many questions, like--do amnios hurt?

More tomorrow after my OB visit.









My aunt had one and said it did not.


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## rainbowmoon (Oct 17, 2003)

hi mamas!

ok this is slightly off topic, but I thought I'd share anyway









i've decided to finish my bellycast this weekend! (sanding,plastering & painting) it's been sitting here for almost 3 months and I've barely been able to look at it until now as it just made me so sad. one, because I am missing being pregnant so much! it's the wierdest thing! also (and more importantly) i guess it just symbolizes all the hope,expectations,etc I had for my myself & our birth during my pregnancy. Anyway I'm really ready to try to move past that, and I'm hoping this will help as a form of*art therapy* and get me to the point where I feel no shame looking at it. I have been planning to put ds's footprints on it and some other stuff that is sentimental to our pregnancy but now I also think I am going to include a c/s incision and the kanji symbol for courage...hopefully i don't mess it up. I'm still trying to decide what colors to use (been thinking about it for months actually.lol-I'm so indecisive!) I will post a pic when it's finished!


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## tammylc (Apr 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rainbowmoon*
hi mamas!
because I am missing being pregnant so much!

Hey - I thought I was the only one! Everyone else always seems so happy to not be pregnant anymore, but I really miss it. For the first week or so, I even had "phantom baby movements" in my belly, like those phantom limb pains that amputees have.

In other news, I continue to recover well, physically. I'm doing okay emotionally too, although I think I've got my own rebound reaction still to come. I processed my situation, made my choices, had a good c-section birth, and felt pretty positive about it in the moment. But I'm still sad about missing out on a vaginal birth. I used to love reading people's birth stories, and now I don't even look at them - they make me too jealous. (Although reading some of the stories here, I am reminded that not all vaginal births are good either...)


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## Jessica36 (Oct 14, 2003)

Ok I just found this link and need to tell my story. I got pg with ds#1 and felt great, I was working full-time and not having any problems until I was about 29-30 weeks. I woke up in the middle of the night with contactions. I drank about 40 oz's of water and they wouldn't go away off to the hosptial I went. I was have CTX every 3-6 min and they were up in the 100+ range, though I didn't feel that bad. I got the Mag and breathine shot. I was in the hosptial for 4 LONG days. I was sent home on bedrest. With Breathine pills to take every 4-6 hours and home monitoring. I wasn't allowed to go anywhere. Man was I bored







So at 34 weeks my OB takes me off the meds and I go into Labor (surprise!) We get to the hospital and they say, nope to early, baby is face up and stop my labor yet again and put me back on the Breathine (WTH was I taken off) So at 37 weeks I go off it again. Now in this time the contractions have done NOTHING for me. I go to the hosptial about 3-4 more times and get sent home. At 42 weeks they decide to induce. I got there and they did the cervical gel, which hurt BAD, I think it was in wrong. And I start progressing then they do the pit. I was ok, walking around watching the monitors, going to the bathroom, BTW I also had student nurses and trained them, yes I knew everyone VERY WELL. I go to the bathroom about 4:00 and my water breaks, it's green. I tell the nurse and she tries to tell me it is a bowel movement, umm NO. So they monitor me a bit more closely and I go on, I am dilating well when Joshua's heart rate starts dropping with each contraction, DH and I notice this, but the nurses just roll me on my side and give my oxygen. Yep doesn't help. So they call the Dr and he is worried about Josh, as I was, and say I can go a bit longer to see how we progress, I progressed well, I went from a 4 to an 8 in 20 minutes, Josh, not so well. Off to the OR we go, I am having CTX on top of CTX trying to handle it and I hear the Dr come in and ask if I am ready and teh Anth says yes, then I hear, no she isn't out yet don't cut! YIKES! Then I wake up in recovery, Josh was in NICU you as he had the Merc and I was stuck in recovery as my bp had sky rocketed after the surgery. This was around 11 pm. I finally got to hold Josh at about 5 in the morning and started nursing







I have to say the nursing staff was WONDERFUL. They supported me in everyway. I am just a bit upset about the progression









DS#2 -- I went with a planned one. Started with the same OB and he wanted me to try VBAC, but I was unsure. PLUS my scar is a bit below belly button to PAST my pubic bone, I guess the OB that did my C/B is famous for this. Well then 2 mo after we find out I am pg, DH gets sick and we get told he has cancer, he doesn't but does have sarcoid. Then my company gets bought out, and my OB QUITS!!!!! So I move to someone else in the practice, who unbeknownst to me is new. With the stress and such we opt for the planned c/b. Get there the day of it and get going. I had a spinal and off we went. I loved being awake for it and feeling the tugging of Zach coming out







HE was perfect, but they thought he was 3 weeks early. Nope sorry, I KNOW when I got pg. He was stuck in special care as he was having problems breathing. I FORCED them to take me to him 2 hours after surgury so I could know he was OK. Dr didn't like that. THEN they tried telling me I couldn't nurse on the morphine, I BLEW a gasket. Next day I am still on ice chips at noon! Dr was like oh yeah you can eat, BTW won the bfing battle! Next day, no visit from the Doctor I was steamed. Needless to say I went back to him only twice. Once for my post-partum and then once because of PPD. He then told me he doesn't treat PPD and would I like to be admited to the hospital until someone can see me???? Ummm No just need something to help with anxiety. Now I have a wonderful OB who takes time to talk to me and listens to what I say. As for if I might try for a VBAC, Don't know will have to think about it.

Man I feel much better and HUGS to EVERYONE!


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rainbowmoon*
hi mamas!

ok this is slightly off topic, but I thought I'd share anyway









i've decided to finish my bellycast this weekend! (sanding,plastering & painting) it's been sitting here for almost 3 months and I've barely been able to look at it until now as it just made me so sad. one, because I am missing being pregnant so much! it's the wierdest thing! also (and more importantly) i guess it just symbolizes all the hope,expectations,etc I had for my myself & our birth during my pregnancy. Anyway I'm really ready to try to move past that, and I'm hoping this will help as a form of*art therapy* and get me to the point where I feel no shame looking at it. I have been planning to put ds's footprints on it and some other stuff that is sentimental to our pregnancy but now I also think I am going to include a c/s incision and the kanji symbol for courage...hopefully i don't mess it up. I'm still trying to decide what colors to use (been thinking about it for months actually.lol-I'm so indecisive!) I will post a pic when it's finished!

I would love to see a pic. I think I may do this the next pregnancy.


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tammylc*
Hey - I thought I was the only one! Everyone else always seems so happy to not be pregnant anymore, but I really miss it. For the first week or so, I even had "phantom baby movements" in my belly, like those phantom limb pains that amputees have.

In other news, I continue to recover well, physically. I'm doing okay emotionally too, although I think I've got my own rebound reaction still to come. I processed my situation, made my choices, had a good c-section birth, and felt pretty positive about it in the moment. But I'm still sad about missing out on a vaginal birth. I used to love reading people's birth stories, and now I don't even look at them - they make me too jealous. (Although reading some of the stories here, I am reminded that not all vaginal births are good either...)

Tammy I am glad you are doing well. I know this sounds horrible but I went and read traumatic vaginal birth stories on one of those mainstream sites for awhile to make me aware that not everything is perfect on the other side. (and maybe feel a little better) I better go get me two flame suits incase this ends up somewhere else at MDC.

When do we see more pics of those babies and were is KKmama?! I want to know if she VBACed.


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Welcome Jessica!


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## Jessica36 (Oct 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OnTheFence*
Welcome Jessica!









Sniff THANKS!!!


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## bwylde (Feb 19, 2004)

I had my OB appointment today and we decided we're going to try a Vbac







. I guess he's strongly for them and said he was very disappointed more women didn't consider it an option (I guess most women just march in and demand another section). I've had an open attitude all along, not trying to get my hopes up one way or another (it didn't help a couple of Dr's at the prenatal clinic basically said I have a 99% chance of another section







).

I have an appointment August 3rd for an assesment and they're going to take it from there. He said they really wouldn't know until I'm actually in labor if I'm going to have the same problems. I almost felt like crying because I was so sure it was going to be a definate repeat, but now I feel so many emotions about it. I don't fear giving birth as much this time, which is a good thing, but I still wonder if I can do it.

Everyone thinks I'm nuts for wanting to do this (family, ect...) but I think it's important for me to at least try


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Carla,

Good for you! Well start studying, reading and practicing for that VBAC!


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

nak

Jessica









Carla ... Yay on the VBAC! It sounds like you have a supportive OB, which is good. Feel free to work out your feelings and emotions about the impending birth. I can imagine you'll have a range of them between now and then.

Tammy ... I miss being pg, too. This will sound nuts but b/c ds came all on his own a week early I really feel like I didn't have the opportunity to have closure on my pg -- time to say this may be the last time I feel the baby move, etc. I can't really explain it. I'm really looking forward to the next pg (spaced appropriately to insure maximun opportunity for VBAC








). I really enjoyed the intimacy I had with the baby, ykwim? This all from a woman who gained 20+ pounds in her last 6 weeks of pg due to water retention.

Since you asked, OTF, here's a link to my ds's website. http://mysite.verizon.net/vze21bsw/ I just uploaded some new pics. Just ignore the birth story on there as that's my "in denial" version.


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

bwylde That is wonderful news- I can "hear" the excitement from you, YEAH!









Jessica- thanks for sharing your story, Welcome to our group and







.


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## liam's mom (Jun 18, 2003)

Hello mamas.







I popped in here a couple of weeks ago to say hello and I've been meaning to post an abbreviated birth story ever since, but have been lacking in time. I can't read my birth story that I wrote after Liam was born--it's too hard.

I am going to post, and then go back and read a little so forgive me for not responding to posts yet!

My son was due May 17, 2003. Except for feeling a little sick at the end of pregnancy (I had the beginnings of pneumonia), everything had gone great. I was seeing a group of midwives at a birth center and was confident that I would have my baby there, with no pain medication and as few interventions as possible. The midwives were all very supportive, and the birth center had only an 11% hospital transfer rate. The cesarean section rate was only 4%. I felt there was no way I'd be in that minority.

DH and I took Bradley classes, I followed the Brewer diet and I read lots of books about natural childbirth and how to achieve it. I was scared, but also excited, to meet our son. I was excited to breastfeed him immediately, excited to hold him right after he was born. I was excited to have him in a setting that would allow me to eat, drink, move about, and labor in the tub. In fact, I was hoping to have a waterbirth, assuming I was comfortable in the tub.

On May 8, in the early afternoon, I started to feel very crampy. It started out kind of constant, but quickly progressed to the point where they were obviously contractions. They weren't very strong yet, and were pretty far apart, so I wasn't concerned. I took one of our dogs for a walk to try to get things moving. All day, I had bloody show, as well.

That evening, the contractions were starting to come faster and harder, but they were tolerable. I called my MW, and she said to call back when they became strong enough that I had to stop what I was doing to get through them.

I didn't sleep very well that night, and when I awoke Friday morning the contractions were MUCH harder and closer together. I called my midwife again--they were starting to get really rough. IIRC, they were about 45 seconds long, too. She asked if I wanted to come in to be checked, and I agreed; if I wasn't far along, I would just go home. We went to the birth center, she checked me, and I was at 1 cm.









I was devastated. We went home. I spent the entire day laboring and getting through contrax as best I could. During the late afternoon, I spoke to my MIL on the phone. She timed the contrax for me. They were a full minute long, and 2-2.5 minutes apart. They hurt. Badly. I called my MW again, and she said we should come back in.

I was 2 cm dilated. Again, devastated. How much worse were the contrax going to get before they started working? They were coming fast, lasting a long time, and I couldn't do anything during the contrax except breathe and wait for it to be over. The baby wasn't dropping, and was still very high up. My MW sent me home, saying this was prodromal labor, and that I should have a glass of wine and take a bath. She was pretty confident that the contrax would stop. DH and I stopped at Whole Foods on the way home, and I remember squatting in the aisles to get through my contractions.

We got home, and I was absolutely miserable. I never dreamed labor would hurt so much. This was awful. I cried, screamed, everything. I was angry at myself--I thought I would be able to handle the pain better. Well, the contrax did not stop. They got stronger and stronger. We went back to the birth center at 9 or 10 pm; I was checked again and was at 2.5/3cm. Very slow progression, and the baby was still very high.

They admitted me, gave me a hep lock since I was GBS+ and took my temperature. I was running a fever. Great! So, they pumped some fluids into me. My MW came in and listened to the baby's hr w/the doppler, and lo and behold--she thinks it's decelerating during contrax. Oh, no...So, yes, she recommends that I transfer to the hospital so they can put me on the EFM to make sure baby is ok.

My entire birth plan was beginning to go down the tubes.

My MW accompanied us to the hospital, which was wonderful of her. I was checked in (all while having incredibly intense contractions very close together). It was about 11pm. The nurse asked if I would be wanting an epidural, and I said no, I would not. However, I did ask for some pain relief. I got some fentanyl in an IV and tried to rest.

I had the same type of contrax all night; they absolutely did not let up. They just got worse and worse, stronger and stronger. I was checked again in the morning, and was at *almost* 4 cm. I had progressed maybe a centimeter in ten hours. This seemed like active labor, but I just wasn't progressing. Something was wrong.

When my doctor got there, he checked me, said I was at 3.5. At that point, I did what I never thought I would--asked for an epidural. I had been in active labor for well over 24 hours and I couldn't rest. In retrospect, I'm glad I got it. I simply couldn't go on anymore. At noon, I talked to the doctor, and asked for pitocin. Maybe the baby needed some help. He agreed, administered it, and we waited. I had a pit drip for three hours.

At about three pm, my doctor came back, checked me, and I had progressed barely half a centimeter. He broke my waters, and there was meconium in the fluid. he wasn't worried, but since I had been in labor so long, didn't like it.

He suggested that maybe we should do a cesarean. I cried.

At that point, I'd been in labor for over 50 hours. At least 35 of those hours, I had had intense contractions very close together. I don't know what else anyone could do to get the baby out. He simply would not drop.

So, at 4:13 pm on May 10, 2003, my doctor made a low horizontal incision and removed my son from my uterus. I was shaking with fear, disappointment and relief. But the worst was still to come. When he was born, he cried, but it was a weak cry. It didn't sound right.

The nurses took him over to the warming table and I heard murmurs of "he's not pinking up," "he isn't breathing well." I panicked, of course. They rushed him to the NICU (dh went with them) while I was taken to recovery. A couple hours later, I was wheeled down to see my son, intubated, lying in the NICU.
No one could tell us if he was going to die.

At about 11 pm, the doctor assigned to him came to my room. He explained that Liam had aspirated meconium in utero, and had developed a pneumothorax, which is a small hole in the lung. They were going to monitor it overnight. It could close on its own, but if it did not, they would have to do surgery.

I was in shock. I still can't express how much everything hurt when I had the c/b, but I told myself at least he would be healthy. But--he wasn't. It was a nightmare.

The next morning, though, we found out that the hole got smaller overnight and was closing up. Liam would not need surgery. YEAH! He was going to be OK! The next few days, I trekked down to the NICU, to work on breastfeeding, to hold him (which i did not get to do until two days after his birth), to tell him how we loved him. However, I was still a wrack. Leaving the hospital without him, I felt empty. I should have been bringing my baby home with me, but he wasn't ready to leave.

He was discharged just two days later, though, for a total of five days in the NICU. Taking him home was the happiest day of my life. Somehow, we never had trouble nursing--he was a pro from the get go and it's been wonderful.









Still, every day, I wonder why everything happened the way it did. Was he in the wrong position? Why couldn't he engage? I don't know who could give me these answers, or where to look. In my heart, I do not believe my pelvis was too small to fit his head. I know how babies' heads mold, how the pelvis separates to accomodate the baby. I picked up a copy of Silent Knife the other day and had to put it down after just a minute of reading. I guess I just wasn't ready.

So, that's my story. It turned out really long! If anyone reads it...Thanks. It felt really good, actually, to get that out--much better than I thought it would.

Hope everyone is doing well, and that we can help each other get through any grieving we may be doing about cesarean births.

Meribeth


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## rainbowmoon (Oct 17, 2003)

carla- you CAN do this mama! you are a strong mama and your body was designed to give birth.


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## Jessica36 (Oct 14, 2003)

Thanks for the welcome everyone. Meribeth Joshua also had the hole in his long, BUT the Dr's actually said they may have done it when they were suctioning him.

Hugs!


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## rainbowmoon (Oct 17, 2003)

meribeth- your story is bringing tears to my eyes. I'm so sorry you had to go through that! especially with your son, I can't even imagine how scary that was.





















I never dreamed labor would hurt so much either and that really took me by surprise too. (and I have a pretty high threshold for pain normally!) I'm also really surprised your birth center did not have an EFM there..anyway thanks for sharing your story, I know how hard it is to get it all out.


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## bwylde (Feb 19, 2004)

Thanks everyone







. I have a couple books I've read (I just noticed the VBAC Companion is on my desk), but should refresh. When I told DH, he said "But I thought you wanted another section". I just said that I didn't want to get my hopes up either way and I wanted to wait and see the OB before deciding anything.

That said, is there anything I can do physically to prepare? The mental part is probably the easy part for me


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tammylc*
For the first week or so, I even had "phantom baby movements" in my belly, like those phantom limb pains that amputees have.

I still have them and I am almost 4 months pp. Mine will be so strong I can feel them from the outside. I assume it is just my uterus getting back to "normal"


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## loftmama (Feb 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bwylde*
That said, is there anything I can do physically to prepare? The mental part is probably the easy part for me









I felt like I was in great shape for my VBAC (which turned into a c/b.) I did a lot of prenatal yoga. My instructor was so wonderful. My cousin, who is a midwife and very experienced with VBACs, had me do a lot of duck walks. When my labor began, I was so in tune with my body. It was beautiful. I cried because I felt so good about my body, myself and accomplishing a totally natural birth.

Maribeth, what a story. Wow! I'm impressed with how long you tried! My ds was in NICU afterwards as well. I'm finally at a very peaceful place about my c/b, thanks to some of the ladies at mdc.

I have a post-birth question. My little guy seems inconsolable at times. I just wonder if he could be reliving his birth trauma. Does anyone have any experience with this? Thanks.


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## Al Dente (Jan 8, 2004)

Meribeth, thank you for sharing that story. You are a strong woman to have gone through all that and be able to write about it so objectively.

Glad to see most mdc moms see the need for this thread. I feel that I can drop my defensiveness about the c/b here...I want to thank you all.

You guys may remember that I had a failed epi after 7 tries to put one in...ended up with a spinal. Well, just got the bill and was charged for both epi and spinal. I am really ticked off about it but don't know how to fight it other than contest it (which we've already done). Just venting!


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## mamasarah (May 28, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rainbowmoon*
hi mamas!

ok this is slightly off topic, but I thought I'd share anyway









i've decided to finish my bellycast this weekend! (sanding,plastering & painting) it's been sitting here for almost 3 months and I've barely been able to look at it until now as it just made me so sad. one, because I am missing being pregnant so much! it's the wierdest thing! also (and more importantly) i guess it just symbolizes all the hope,expectations,etc I had for my myself & our birth during my pregnancy. Anyway I'm really ready to try to move past that, and I'm hoping this will help as a form of*art therapy* and get me to the point where I feel no shame looking at it. I have been planning to put ds's footprints on it and some other stuff that is sentimental to our pregnancy but now I also think I am going to include a c/s incision and the kanji symbol for courage...hopefully i don't mess it up. I'm still trying to decide what colors to use (been thinking about it for months actually.lol-I'm so indecisive!) I will post a pic when it's finished!

rainbowmoon, this is so healing. i am a painter and for a long time was afraid to paint about my c-birth but finally dove into it recently. i do self-portraits and i actually ripped up my canvas and sewed it back together ( i know, that's a bit extreme







) but just doing that has helped me sooo much. i would love to see your belly cast when it's finished!


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## mamasarah (May 28, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tammylc*
Hey - I thought I was the only one! Everyone else always seems so happy to not be pregnant anymore, but I really miss it. For the first week or so, I even had "phantom baby movements" in my belly, like those phantom limb pains that amputees have.


i used to have those too. i think that having your baby by c/b makes it such a sudden separation that it's hard to process. in the video of me at the hospital, i am holding my belly like i was pregnant still...


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## mamasarah (May 28, 2002)

sorry for the 3 posts in a row! i don't know how to multiple quote in one post.

anyway, meribeth, thanks for sharing your story. as someone said here it truly helps just to get it out over and over and over again...especially to people who understand.







i am so sorry for your difficult time. it is so good to hear that your little guy was ok.

loftmama, did you ever read that article in mothering about the mom who tried to listen to her baby cry a little and communicate to heal his or her birth trauma? maybe you should try some kind of special moment between the two of you, in the bath or somewhere quiet where you can "talk" about it.


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## rainbowmoon (Oct 17, 2003)

mamasara- I think taking baths with your babe is incredibly healing..as for the belly cast, I just realized last night it doesn't even go down to where my incision is..must think of a new idea now..

loftmama-if you at are all inclined to using flower essences shooting star & manzanita are both commonly used to heal birth trauma. also have you tried massage at all? I have given ds a massage everyday since birth and he has shown not one sign of trauma..he's actually really mellow and happy. a *very* smily baby too, he actually has been smiling since we were in the hospital. barely ever cries..not sure if it's related but I think it is.

racheepoo-that sucks about them charging you for that!









speaking of bills mine have just started piling in. between the c/s and being hospitalized for another week for pancreatitis,etc. my bills are nearing $21,000 so far and that's not even all of them!







of course we have insurance and will only have to pay a fraction of it, but it's still a shocker! DH is definilty on board after seeing the bills for an HBAC next time. lol.


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## Icequeen_in_ak (Mar 6, 2004)

Okay, I said I'd find it (this thread) and here I am. I didn't know this thread even existed until yesterday.

I'm one that feels like I have lots of emotional baggage associated with my c-section... and you would think by now (my DD is 7 months old today) that I would have gotten over it and wouldn't think about it anymore.

Here is my story:

My pregnancy was pretty much textbook from day one (I was worried sick as I had lost 2 babies prior to this pg) until week 21. At that time preterm contractions started coming every 5-7 minutes. I was put on tubuteline (sp?) and bed rest for the remainder of my pregnancy. At week 36 they took me off the medication and told me that if she came, she came. Well.... 12 hours later the contractions promptly returned, only this time they were much stronger and 3-5 minutes apart. This continued for 11 more days, non-stop. I became very sick (as I'd not slept basically in 11 days) so I begged my doctor to do something to help me. His suggestion was to put me in the hospital and start pitocin (because all of this labor did nothing to dilate me). So in complete desperation, I agreed....

After 7 hours on pitocin at the highest level I could receive, I was still dilated to zero. He told me that I obviously was never going to progress and that a section was necessary. Once he took her, he told me that she never would have come on her own, as my pelvis is of a structure that was impossible for her to be able to engage. He said it was so narrow that her head could not even fit into it.

I still find myself saying "do you think that is REALLY true??" I hear women tell me all the time that it's a crock, that every woman can pass a baby through their hips, etc.

So... needless to say, 7 months later I still find myself questioning if I did the right thing, should I just have continued to make it through the labor in the hopes that it would do something? Or should I just relax and believe the OB that I may just have one of those small percentage body structures that isn't suitable for natural child birth???

My other issue is that I still feel like I didn't "birth" my child. I layed on a table numb from my collarbone down and heard her cry. I didn't get to hold her for over an hour, I didn't get any of the birth experiences that I wanted.

All in all... I feel incredibly ripped off!!!

So, without taking this post into a novel stage, I'll leave it as is.... at least it explains that I have just a "few" issues I need to work through huh?


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

Karen ..







and







. You've come to the right place. We're all at different stages of healing and we're all here to help each other get through our feelings & emotions and ask all the questions we need to ask.


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Welcome Karen, I am glad you are here!


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

Ok now I'm







. I just sorta convinced reluctant dh that HBAC would be the best alternative for all future births. And what do I find out? Its illegal for mws to attend HBACs. So its hospital (with probable laundry list of required interventions -- no birthing centers here) or UC (which I'm just not comfortable with). I'm so mad. I DON'T want to birth in a hospital again if at all possible.


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## Ravin (Mar 19, 2002)

Looking back, I know at the time it was decided to do the C, it was necessary. DD just wasn't handling the stress of what was going on. But if it weren't for the induction, I don't think it would have gone that way. My mistake was in setting foot in the hospital. From there we were doomed.

And I had to go home w/out my DD, too. I could only stay 4 nights, and they wanted to keep DD one more night because of jaundice, which I later learned was probably also unnecessary. But that homecoming, with an incision on my abdomen and no baby in my arms, was the saddest thing I ever experienced. It was like the anti-icing on the anti-cake of my DD's birth.

The hospital had nesting rooms for parents w/ babes in there, but there weren't enough to go around. It came down to us or a couple whose baby needed to start eating and wouldn't, so they got the room because the nurses felt it was more important that they get the mom's help in getting that baby eating. And I agreed, but boy did I wish there were more rooms.

I've contemplated going to stay with my mother or friends for the birth of the next one, but the friends just bought a house on the Iowa side of the border from Omaha, where midwifery is illegal, and I'm not so sure my mom would go for it, plus I haven't been able to find out the exact pertinent regulations for TX where she lives.

There's a birth center here I might go to. I don't know.


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Henry's_Mamma*
Ok now I'm







. I just sorta convinced reluctant dh that HBAC would be the best alternative for all future births. And what do I find out? Its illegal for mws to attend HBACs. So its hospital (with probable laundry list of required interventions -- no birthing centers here) or UC (which I'm just not comfortable with). I'm so mad. I DON'T want to birth in a hospital again if at all possible.

That is a dilema. I don't know what to say. I am sorry. IS there a more VBAC friendly hospital around?


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## wrensmom (Feb 4, 2004)

edited to add: I started to post but don't have time now. welcome
welcome to all the new mamas.


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

There's a new thread for May 2004!


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