# Anyone considering getting their daughter circumcised?



## yolundhaq (Nov 30, 2011)

This is really embarassing, but I cannot orgasm. I've tried everything and then some, my poor dh has tried everything and then some. I've spoken with my mother and aunts, it is an uncomfortable topic, but they all have the same problem, though I wonder if their age and environments they group up in gave them less opportunity to try and solve the problem.

I recently took a human sexuality class and the teacher said that sexual dysfunction in women is quite common with a majority of women reporting no orgasm and even outright dislike and pain of sex. This made me feel less broken, but now I am having a daughter and I fear she will have the same problem with dislike of sex and no orgasm.

I read an article "Pleasure and Orgasm in Women with Female Genital Mutilation/Cutting" from The Journal of Sexual Medicine in 2007 and it stated that girls circumcised before puberty reported orgasm over 91%. The nerve ending getting rewired to more accessible places. I would like my dd to enjoy sex and make her and her husband happy and 91% seems like much better odds than normal and much, much better than my family.

People say female circumcision is bad, the west has a very bad very of female sexuality, half naked women to sell everything and then call them sluts is confusing! I feel I owe her the best chance I can give her and this seems the best choice. Anyone else doing the same thing or different way to teach daughter to orgasm?


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

No. It would be just as bad as circumcising a boy.


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## yolundhaq (Nov 30, 2011)

I did not ask about boys. I asked how I could make her life and enjoyment of sex be better. You just say "no" is not helpful.


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## tracymom1 (May 7, 2008)

MDC takes a pretty strong stance renouncing routine male circumcision and I am sure that thought carries over to female circumcision as well. This is probably not the place for such a question.


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## yolundhaq (Nov 30, 2011)

I am not asking about "routine" circumcision, but about circumcision or alternatives for a specific problem.

Male and female circumcision are completely different and routine vs surgery-with-a-purpose are completely different.

Basically the advice here is "Too bad for your dd, do nothing?"


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

Honestly, I dont believe that it is your decision. When your daughter is an adult, you can tell her about that option, and if she wants to proceed with a body modification at that point to enhance her sexual stimulation, then that will be her choice. I feel that both male and female mutilation are just that- mutilation. I dont think parents should have the right to cut up their babies, unless there is a serious medical condition involved. You wanting her to experience an orgasm is not a medical problem. Often times women from certain families cannot experience orgasm due to the way they were raised, or for other environmental reasons, one of which being the need to "please their husband" that they are raised is the purpose of sex instead of sharing a wonderful moment with him.

By your same argument, I may just sign my daughter up for a boob job as soon as she turns 16 because studies show that more men pay attention to girls with large breasts and she will go further in life than a flat chested woman. Im sure her husband will be pleased to have a large breasted wife, and plus, she will feel more sexy in lingerie. It just doesnt make sense, does it? No, because that would be cosmetic surgery. Personally, I see no difference between the two.

Also, I have no idea why this is posted in the UC forum.


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## yolundhaq (Nov 30, 2011)

The problem is, the earlier the procedure is done, the better the nerve reassignment will be. As an adult is too late. Having such a conversation with a an 8 year old is just too much of a choice for them to be saddled with. She won't understand.

Being prettier is not the same as having access to a basic component of sexuality.

So again, your answer is that I should do nothing? Not doing everything possible to give my children the best life I can imagine is bad parenting in my eyes. All I have seen here is the blind application of a philosophy, disappointing.


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## 4midablemama (Jul 29, 2010)

4 posts. Troll, anyone?


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yolundhaq*
> 
> I am not asking about "routine" circumcision, but about circumcision or alternatives for a specific problem.
> 
> ...


I think you might want to take a different class on human sexuality, too. A "majority" of women report no orgasm? Seriously? I've talked to a fair number of women about this over the years, and I've run into very few others with the problem. Women experience different levels of difficultly in getting there, but the number who have never made it isn't that high, and I don't believe for a minute that it's a majority (fwiw, Wikipedia cites 10% of women, in the US). Dislike and pain are separate issues, and sometimes have specific medical causes.

Personally, I'm sure this post is a joke, but just on the very slight chance that some woman somewhere is actually considering cutting up her daughter's clitoris in order to help her have orgasms (OMG - I just canNOT wrap my brain around this), I thought I'd post. I don't really publicize my issues in this area much, because it's...kind of humiliating, really...


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yolundhaq*
> 
> Being prettier is not the same as having access to a basic component of sexuality.
> 
> ...


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## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

OP, go back and read the article. I'm not a medical professional but reading comprehension is sometimes key. What the article actually concludes is that females in this study which have been mutilated "can also have the possibility of reaching an orgasm" and that women who have been subjected to such are entitled to appropriate therapies because this subset of the population is often overlooked. What it does not conclude is that mutilation itself results in guaranteed orgasm or better orgasm. The abstract itself starts out by stating that female genital mutilation violates human rights.

See abstract here: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1743-6109.2007.00620.x/abstract

I too ask: why is this post in Unassisted Childbirth? This is the second time I've been in this forum today for issues unrelated to unassisted childbirth.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

The problem with circumcising your daughter because you can't orgasm... is because the problem is yours not hers. And it may not be a physical problem. You're making assumptions that it is.


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## LindyGirl (Nov 3, 2011)

Originally Posted by *4midablemama* 

4 posts. Troll, anyone?

My first thought.


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## Mulvah (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4midablemama*
> 
> 4 posts. Troll, anyone?


I just wish this new breed of trolls were a little better at deceiving people. What happened to the good old fashioned kind that made up elaborate stories after months of earning trust from the community only to turn into attention-seeking nutters? I miss them.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mulvah*
> 
> I just wish this new breed of trolls were a little better at deceiving people. What happened to the good old fashioned kind that made up elaborate stories after months of earning trust from the community only to turn into attention-seeking nutters? I miss them.


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## 4midablemama (Jul 29, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mulvah*
> 
> I just wish this new breed of trolls were a little better at deceiving people. What happened to the good old fashioned kind that made up elaborate stories after months of earning trust from the community only to turn into attention-seeking nutters? I miss them.


This is beginning to feel like a bad monster movie to me. It seems like everywhere I've been in MDC today, there's been a new one-did we feed them after midnight or something?


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CatsCradle*
> 
> I too ask: why is this post in Unassisted Childbirth? This is the second time I've been in this forum today for issues unrelated to unassisted childbirth.


I didn't even notice which forum. I guess that removes the 0.0000001% possibility that it wasn't a troll. *sigh*


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## cameragirl (Apr 15, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mulvah*
> 
> I just wish this new breed of trolls were a little better at deceiving people. What happened to the good old fashioned kind that made up elaborate stories after months of earning trust from the community only to turn into attention-seeking nutters? I miss them.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4midablemama*
> 
> This is beginning to feel like a bad monster movie to me. It seems like everywhere I've been in MDC today, there's been a new one-did we feed them after midnight or something?












Okay, that was funny.


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## Buzzer Beater (Mar 5, 2009)

I think this troll has another one going about male circumcision... under a different user name.


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## cynthia mosher (Aug 20, 1999)

Under the assumption that this is a sincerely posted topic and the OP needs more information to understand the issues I am moving this to The Case Against Circumcision forum.

youlandhaq, Mothering is not a place where you will find support for circumcision of infants or children. Please keep that in mind as you read the responses and appreciate why circumcision of your daughter should be a decision she makes for herself. If you are here to advocate for circumcision then your membership will be closed.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

OP you are assuming that your dd will have the same issues you do when there is no way you can know that for sure. What if if the circ causes her to have issues that she wouldnt have had? You cannot know for sure it wont.

The thing about female orgasm is that with us it is usually mental that we cannot reach completion not always but it is a pretty high percentage.

I will say though that if I had a 100% guarantee that it would help I would strongly consider it. Mind you not a 99.9% but 100% undeniable proof that it would work. But since I could never get that then no I would not mess with my babies genitals. The very idea makes me slightly nauseous.


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## Night_Nurse (Nov 23, 2007)

Hey everyone,

I could be waaaaay off here but I'm guessing the OP posted this to show the hypocrisy in the male vs female circ argument. Maybe like how it's ridiculous to circ a baby boy because his dad or grandfather had a problem.

IDK.


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## Cyllya (Jun 10, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Night_Nurse*
> 
> Hey everyone,
> 
> ...


Kind of preaching to the choir if that's the case.


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## MichelleZB (Nov 1, 2011)

I just wanted to clear up, for the edification of anyone reading this thread later, that female circumcision has never been associated with better female sexual response. Removing or cutting the clitoral hood (which is what I assume the kind of female circumcision the OP was talking about) will NOT increase sensation in the clitoris, and does not bring clitoral nerves closer to the surface of the clitoris like she seems to be claiming.

On the contrary, female circumcision has been associated with sexual dysfunction. If you want your daughter to have a healthy sex life, the best thing you can do is leave her genitals alone.

Seems like a no-brainer, but just thought I'd state that for the record.


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## aeterna (Nov 6, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MichelleZB*
> 
> If you want your daughter to have a healthy sex life, the best thing you can do is leave her genitals alone.


Or recommend she get a hood piercing later, since that can often cause the nerve bundle in the clitoris (which the piercing passes under) to protrude further, thus allowing for greater access/stimulation.

Also, boys like playing with shiny things.


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## TyrantOfTheWeek (May 25, 2009)

Dear OP, learn how to use a vibrator.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TyrantOfTheWeek*
> 
> Dear OP, learn how to use a vibrator.


That's insulting and obnoxious. Inability to orgasm is really, really hard to deal with, and people coming out with flip comments like "learn to use a vibrator" really don't help, even a little bit. FWIW, I use one sometimes, mostly during sex with dh - but I can't get off with one. Just because it works for some people (maybe even most - I have no idea) doesn't mean it works for everyone.


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## MichelleZB (Nov 1, 2011)

Yeah, but obviously, a hood piercing isn't necessary, so I wouldn't recommend any such thing. Most people's clitoral nerve endings protrude enough by themselves to illicit a healthy sexual response. People can decide for themselves if they want to get body art.


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## tropicana (Sep 11, 2011)

there seems to be a lot of "debate" about circumcision on the MDC boards in general these days.


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## cameragirl (Apr 15, 2010)

There have been a lot of threads made to drum up conflict recently. Some trolls, some not.


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## brant31 (Jan 11, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cynthia Mosher*
> 
> If you are here to advocate for circumcision then your membership will be closed.


An enormous relief to read that this is still the policy. Hopefully regarding healthy minors of both genders.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MichelleZB*
> 
> I just wanted to clear up, for the edification of anyone reading this thread later, that female circumcision has never been associated with better female sexual response. Removing or cutting the clitoral hood (which is what I assume the kind of female circumcision the OP was talking about) will NOT increase sensation in the clitoris, and does not bring clitoral nerves closer to the surface of the clitoris like she seems to be claiming.
> 
> On the contrary, female circumcision has been associated with sexual dysfunction. If you want your daughter to have a healthy sex life, the best thing you can do is leave her genitals alone.


Not quite true. The US medical profession was actually rather sympathetic to the notion of female circumcision to address "frigidity" and other issues from the late 19th century right up through much of the 20th. From Kellogg advocating the application of phenol to girls' genitals to make them address their sexuality "properly" to Blue Cross paying for adult female circumcision up until 1977, the US has taken a wildly experimental attitude with genital modifications of both adults and children, constantly seeking "cures" for perceived and nonexistent problems. For many doctors and patients it was accepted wisdom that female problems could be addressed through targeted cutting, burning and infibulation. In fact, it's only recently that the notion has taken wide hold in the West that FGC is abhorrent and unconscionable.

We've made great inroads with regard to females (even if the discussion has swung into hyperbole among a few, who claim to read the minds of those who perpetrate FGM and sound like they have clairvoyant insight into the tools always used). Now a better consciousness needs to pervade modern attitudes toward MGC, a course in which the Mothering members, as usual, have taken the lead.


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## aeterna (Nov 6, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MichelleZB*
> 
> Yeah, but obviously, a hood piercing isn't necessary, so I wouldn't recommend any such thing. Most people's clitoral nerve endings protrude enough by themselves to illicit a healthy sexual response. People can decide for themselves if they want to get body art.


...the "deciding for themselves" part is sort of the point, eh?


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## QueenOfTheMeadow (Mar 25, 2005)

I have removed numerous posts accusing the OP of being a troll. Please do not continue to accuse people of being trolls. If you are concerned that someone is a troll, report it, and don't respond. I've also removed some off topic conversations, which although amusing and informative have nothing to do with the subject at hand. :lol

TyrantoftheWeek and Imakcerka-

Your posts have been removed. They are personal attacks and do nothing to forward the discussion.


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## ~adorkable~ (Nov 7, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aeterna*
> 
> Or recommend she get a hood piercing later, since that can often cause the nerve bundle in the clitoris (which the piercing passes under) to protrude further, thus allowing for greater access/stimulation.
> 
> Also, boys like playing with shiny things.


(for what it is worth i was a professional piercer and a member of the Association of Professional Piercers for over a decade, so i know quite a lot about this particular thing)

a hood piercing *does not* pass under the clitoral shaft, it is just in the loose skin that covers the area. There are more involved and difficult to do and heal and have piercings that do, but that is not here nor there.

Just like in male circ, anything that exposes the nerve bundle to regular stimulation(removing skin or placing something near it to rub against it), will in time, callus and desensitize those nerves to some degree.

the mass majority of folks that get genital piercings find that any additional sensitivity they get at first goes away soon after. the remaining benefit is in their head and that is a great thing, one should always love and adore their genitals.

and yes lot of folks like playing with shiny things, there in lays the benefit and the feeling pretty aspect is priceless.

i include this in this thread because for one i like to dispell piercing myths, but more so because i found in my professional career as a piercer that i was lucky enough to meet, share and help hundreds of women gain sexual pleasure in their lives by simply learning to love their bodies and make educated choices about them. this was their right and pleasure to make these empowering choices as free thinking adults.

*No choices, that affect ones sexuality, should be made for one person by another. *

*Not by parents, a pressuring lover or the society at large,*

*ever.*


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## QueenOfTheMeadow (Mar 25, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *~Adorkable~*
> 
> (for what it is worth i was a professional piercer and a member of the Association of Professional Piercers for over a decade, so i know quite a lot about this particular thing)
> 
> ...


So very true! I loved hearing your point of view on this!


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## aeterna (Nov 6, 2008)

@Adorkable - Thanks for clearing that up! It was something I'd carried around in my head for forever, long before I had the presence of mind to research the majority of "facts" I filed away. Am always glad for real info. And I do completely agree with you about the benefit being primarily in one's perception - I have thoroughly enjoyed both the use and knowledge of mine for a decade now, even if I was never one of those lucky ones reporting spontaneous physical stimulation. Still worth it.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *~Adorkable~*
> 
> *No choices, that affect ones sexuality, should be made for one person by another. *
> 
> ...


Very well said. Thank you!


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