# My 14 year old daughter refuses to wear a bra



## Svart

My daughter is 14 years old and has quite large breasts. However, she doesn't want to wear any kind of bra, nor a camisole. She says they are uncomfortable and make her feel weird, she is a tomboy. When she walks, her breast wobble, and often she wears a tank top or a t-shirt, so that you can see her nipples through her clothing. It's not modesty.

Anyone else having this problem? What would you do?


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## ollyoxenfree

I'd let her wear what she wants to wear (how are you going to MAKE her wear a bra?)

But I'd take her to a specialty shop and have her properly fitted. Then I'd let her choose what she wanted - sports bras, frilly bras....whatever.


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## SoulCakes

Sports bra seems like an obvious answer. I wouldn't push a bra on her, exactly... but hmm. It's kind of tricky. I wouldn't want people gaping at my young daughter's breasts, on the one hand, and it's not like I'd let her out of the house without pants. But on the other hand, you don't want to force her. I'd stock up on sports bras and - I dunno - perhaps mention that bras help prevent sagging?


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## SoulCakes

Oh! I just thought of something else. If she's a real tomboy and pretty active outdoors, she's probably already found out that bouncing breasts get in the way of running and jumping and playing sports. It's uncomfortable and distracting. Maybe point out that she'll have an easier time being active if she throws on a sports bra?


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## briome

They ARE uncomfortable!

Is she concerned at all about the modesty issue...if not your should avoid that as a reasoning.

maybe show her womans teams (that she likes, soccer etc) and that they all wear sports bras so they can do all the stuff they need.
How about showing a repeat of that OPRAH (I'm sure there has been others too) that show women how a good fiting bra makes them look better, be healty and draw LESS attention to them!

She likely is very unaware of how exactly it looks to others and how it affects them. I have two cousins who also had a period like this at this age who also could use some support but just didn't seem to realize how much other people noticed......they are also tomboys unconcerned with fashion/style. They are now older and wear what is needed of course.

Be gentle... don't shame her. Maybe find someone else in a crowd who has a floppy front and ask her what she thinks about it..... bUT really it seems a little wrong to force a young woman to be embaressed about her body..... Just a thoughT.


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## beckyand3littlemonsters

I never liked bras when i was younger but my reasons where different, i didn't want breasts i hated it that my body was changeing, i even tried hideing my period by hideing my bloody knickers cos i hated the fact i was turning into a "young woman" back to the subject maybe you could try finding her something comfier like a sports bra or a t-shirt bra. something that supports like a bra but looks and feels like a crop top.


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## eclipse

Her body, her choice.


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## LuckyTrish

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 
Her body, her choice.

Yes! Exactly that









I haven't worn a bra for years, and I don't thank any woman should be required or forced to wear one.


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## Oubliette8

I was a similar kid to your daughter. Nothing my mother ever said could get me to wear a bra.

I did end up wearing one for a few years after a trusted camp counselor took me aside and talked to me- basically she just said if I ever wanted one, she'd be glad to get me one, no questions asked and threw in some other stuff about growing up. I thought about it for a few weeks and took her up on it eventually. And I still didn't say anything about it to my mother









That said, I've given them up again. The few years I did wear them I only wore sports bras. Now I wear undershirts (mens) or underarmour (also mens) if I need them to bounce less or am wearing something formal. I do have a large chest, and this works fine for me.

I would probably offer her some undershirts, and some underarmour. You might point out that even boys wear undershirts. Otherwise, I don't think its an issue. It makes you uncomfortable, but it obviously doesn't make her uncomfortable. I see one of two things happening- either she changes her mind as she matures, or peer pressure gets to her, or she'll decide she doesn't care about societal norms and continue as she is.


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## ArielMomma

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 
Her body, her choice.

This.


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## orangefoot

Soulcakes - I hate to disappoint you but bras don't prevent sagging: that is a big fat old myth put about by those who make bras.

If she doesn't want to wear one there is not much you can do about it. If she gets self conscious she may ask you for some advice on bra alternatives.

I can suggest a plain undershirt with a bit of lycra in it or a very stretchy crop to but I can't vouch for bras at all myself as I hate them too. Why should I constrict my body if I don't want to?


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## Purple*Lotus

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 
Her body, her choice.

My Mom used to do bra checks. I hated having to prove I was wearing one. Humiliating!

Maybe she would wear a smaller tank underneath.


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## SoulCakes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *orangefoot* 
Soulcakes - I hate to disappoint you but bras don't prevent sagging: that is a big fat old myth put about by those who make bras.

If she doesn't want to wear one there is not much you can do about it. If she gets self conscious she may ask you for some advice on bra alternatives.

I can suggest a plain undershirt with a bit of lycra in it or a very stretchy crop to but I can't vouch for bras at all myself as I hate them too. Why should I constrict my body if I don't want to?

How is that a myth? Skin is only so elastic; it stretches when weight (breast tissue) holds it down. It's just biology/physics. Bras counteract (to some extent) the being held down, therefore bras counteract (to some extent) the stretching of the skin.

Agreed, however, that if she doesn't want to wear a bra then there's nothing left to do or discuss.


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## TiredX2

If she likes to wear tank tops, how about buying her some running tank tops (very controlling/form fitting) and she can wear one of those with a "regular" tank or two on top. Or just several "normal" tanks.

If she does a lot of sports, she may be chafing on her bra strap (around the chest). When I played a lot of soccer it was common for us to actually tuck our shirts under our bra to prevent chafing. They have better stuff now though! (wish I had workout tanks like my DD has now back then).


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## magentamomma

I have very large breasts 44 H and I hate bras. I don't wear them unless in public. If your daughter has the confidence not to wear one, support her Bra straps have permanantly dented my clavicle bones. I get headaches from wearing them and have arthritis in my midback since age 27 from the bras putting the weight so high up. It should be her choice, let her wear a thicker tank if you are worried about modesty.


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## claddaghmom

That was me. They do take some getting used to...as if you had spent your whole life never wearing panties
















There's something annoyingly extra about them...so maybe getting tanks with cups built in or zip up sports bras will help.

I also feel that if someone had just taken a moment to neutrally fill me in on the culture, I would have chosen to wear them more consistently. At 14 I did not think about guys staring at my breasts or about nipples poking through, or bouncing around, etc.


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## mamahart

I also am large chested (42DD) and hate bras unless I have to go to a fancy party.
My mother always wanted me to wear bras, underwear, jeans without holes, no tye-dyes. She didn't like me climbing trees and swimming in creeks once I was about 14.
Now I do all those things all the time.
AND I have a daughter who has 25 bras, wears underwear, has nice jeans and fashiony shirts. She will occasionally climb a tree or swim in a creek, in proper swimwear of course.
Funny.
Essentially I have to go with Her Body, Her Choice.


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## ollyoxenfree

I thought bras were really uncomfortable, and went bra-less for years. I had tried a variety, but didn't really find anything I liked. Until I went to a specialty shop. That's where i learned the proper size and style bra for me.

Before I gave up on bras, I had been choosing wrongly. Then I stopped trying - and never really figured out what was right. Now, thanks to the helpful, discreet saleswoman and the wide selection at the shop, I wear one every day. I like them and I find them very comfortable. I've heard statistics that say something like 70% of women aren't wearing the proper size and style.

I'm sure that bras are uncomfortable for some women, no matter what. I'd give a 14 y.o. a chance to find out for sure that there is nothing out there for her, though.


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## laohaire

No bras for me, and it hasn't ruined my life or sagged my boobs. (C cup). I think it would have been AWFUL if my mom had been nagging me and on my case about it. (And, knowing my mom, if she DID take up that cause, I'd still be hearing about it now at age 33 - and, furthermore, if I ever changed my mind and decided I DID want to wear one, I'd have to be sure not to wear one around my mother, lest I hear her crow for the rest of her life how she was right).

A bra is a tool for a woman, not a necessity. If she feels bras help her, she should have them available to her. If not, they shouldn't be forced.


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## Storm Bride

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bunnyflakes* 
My Mom used to do bra checks. I hated having to prove I was wearing one. Humiliating!

If it's not possible to tell, just by looking at you, if you're wearing a bra, then...what difference could it possibly make whether you wore one or not??


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## Storm Bride

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SoulCakes* 
How is that a myth? Skin is only so elastic; it stretches when weight (breast tissue) holds it down. It's just biology/physics. Bras counteract (to some extent) the being held down, therefore bras counteract (to some extent) the stretching of the skin.

I've always believed it to be a myth. I've worn a bra since I first sprouted "buds". I was sagging by the time I was 13. I try to remember that I may be the exception (as nothing drives me crazier than someone saying "blah blah blah doesn't do x, y, z - I _know_, because I had/did blah blah blah and x, y, z didn't happen to me"), but emotionally, I just can't do the "bras prevent sagging" thing, yk?


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## laohaire

From what I've read the "bras prevent sagging" thing is a myth, but I don't remember where I read it nor can I quote peer reviewed studies or anything. At the very least, it's not anywhere near a sure thing that bras prevent sagging.

Seems to me like pregnancy causes most of the sag.

It just seems weird to me that we're designed to be defective without modern clothing or something.


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## SashaBreeze

The deal I worked out with my oldest (because I had modesty concerns as well) is that as long as nothing is showing whether or not she wears a bra is her concern but if she is hanging out of her shirt or showing major nipple through the shirt she has to wear a bra. For what it is worth on those occasions she wears a sports bra. She has a couple of tanks with built in sports bras and seems to like those best.

On the topic of saggy breast. Am I the only one that likes her sag? I think it looks nice. I look at my body, the stretch marks, the stretched out breast and elongated nipples, the loose skin at the bottom of my stomach and remember all of my pregnancies. I think to myself "Your body shouts I AM A MOTHER". I think the body of an older mother is beautiful, saggy breast and all.


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## SoulCakes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laohaire*
Seems to me like pregnancy causes most of the sag.

Totally. Increased breast size stretches the skin. My point was that there's also the "daily sag" of just weight vs. skin. If the weight isn't being applied to the skin because of wearing a bra, then it logically follows that the "daily sag" is going to be reduced. Bras certainly aren't going to prevent all sagging (I mean, even our face starts to sag after a while - it's just the nature of skin!). And those of us with less elastic skin are going to be more susceptible to sagging than others, not that that's all bad:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SashaBreeze* 
Am I the only one that likes her sag? I think it looks nice. I look at my body, the stretch marks, the stretched out breast and elongated nipples, the loose skin at the bottom of my stomach and remember all of my pregnancies. I think to myself "Your body shouts I AM A MOTHER". I think the body of an older mother is beautiful, saggy breast and all.

This is beautiful, thank you.


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## journeymom

Hi Svart! I notice this is your very first post to MDC.

Feel free to post over at the Pleased to Meet You forum, as well. We'd like to get to know you better.


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## Storm Bride

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SashaBreeze* 
On the topic of saggy breast. Am I the only one that likes her sag? I think it looks nice. I look at my body, the stretch marks, the stretched out breast and elongated nipples, the loose skin at the bottom of my stomach and remember all of my pregnancies. I think to myself "Your body shouts I AM A MOTHER". I think the body of an older mother is beautiful, saggy breast and all.

I don't like or dislike it. It's just there. However, it also doesn't say "I am a mother" to me, because I've had it since I was 12 or 13.









I like my stretch marks, though. I try not to think too much about pregnancy, but I do like my stretch marks. My body did _something_ right.


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## bestjob

I support (oooh bad pun) the suggestion of getting an expert bra fitting.

I also think that having a chat about the "message" of wobbly breasts and visible nipple outlines is worthwhile. What is comfortable on a beach may not work in an interview for a great volunteer position, and your dd is at an age when she might be thinking about having fun on the beach with friends and also trying to land a great volunteer job.

She needs to know what part of her to project (sorry, these awful puns can't be avoided) and when.

It won't all become instantly clear. We're all different people at different times. That's not a bad thing. It's something we all have to learn, though.


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## briome

What an intersting thread!

I remember being about 13 and wearing a 'training bra' for the buds and my GRANDFATHER of all people came in and noticed right away and said "oh, I see your wearing a BRA!" how hummiliating! I was wearing a nice shirt over it of course! The nerve!

When your very young it seems like BRA's can draw more attention to your sexuality then not.... like telling the world that you are aware of your growth and am embracing your 'womanhood' and unless you feel ready for that, egnoring it seems like a logical delay technique!

I've worked with a lot of young people in this age group and MOST cannot stand to be baggered by Mom. I think you would have more sucsess if you pretended like it didn't matter to you and have a favorite relative (aunt, cousin) give her a tank top with a bra shelf in it!


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## orangefoot

http://www.brafree.org/faq.html#1

I don't see why wearing under shirt or wearing an additional over layer like a vest is attracting attention to one's breasts any more than seeing the seams of a bra cup, the straps or the whole bra itself through a shirt.

The message of wobbly breasts and nipple outlines in volunteer interviews? Give me a break. What about dressing modestly? What do I have to learn, sorry? I have held professional jobs without wearing a bra and tend to go about my business expecting people to treat me as something other than nipples with me attached.















So many messed up messages y'know.


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## PatienceAndLove

I believe that it is a modesty issue. But then again, I operate on the idea that I should strive to dress and act in such a way that I don't purposely cause another person to sin. If I have strived to act and look in such a way, and that person still thinks or acts sinfully, that is between that person and God.

On that note- wobbley breasts and prominent nipples can lead boys, and young and older men into sinful sexual thoughts. And I, for one, do NOT want my daughter to be viewed as a sexual object. I have started having her wear undershirts now so she is used to the extra layer (not to mention that little girls pants are low cut, and undershirts are longer than regular shirts, thus they can be tucked in)

I am well endowed, as well, and have been wearing bras since I was 10. I found that going to the Bali/Hanes/Playtex store was very worthwhile. I was fitted and then had A LOT of different styles to choose from. I spent most of my preteen years in wirefree bras that were very comfy. I now wear underwire bras, and have a few heavily seamed wirefree bras for comfy days. I find having unencumbered bras is a actually a hinder to my movements and actions.

Some links you and your daughter could check out together, and find something that appeals to her.
Wirefree Bras
T-Shirt Bras
Yoga Tank with built-in shelf bra
Wire free T-shirt bras
Strappy sports bras (I am actually SUPER jealous of these! These look so crazy comfy! Personally, this is what I could choose. They look like crop tops, but have straps that could be worn under a dress or a tank top without having the racerback straps showing.


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## itsrtimedownhere

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SoulCakes* 
How is that a myth? Skin is only so elastic; it stretches when weight (breast tissue) holds it down. It's just biology/physics. Bras counteract (to some extent) the being held down, therefore bras counteract (to some extent) the stretching of the skin.

Agreed, however, that if she doesn't want to wear a bra then there's nothing left to do or discuss.

breasts aren't held up by skin. they are held up by tendons in your chest. when you wear a bra, the tendons get atrophied and that can cause your breasts to sag.

i stopped wearing a bra 3 years ago and my breasts got perkier.


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## mtiger

Another point wrt sports bras, if "tomboy" includes athletic activity. My 16yo is extremely active in sports, but since she's not too large up top, doesn't have much discomfort going braless. BUT... when it's warm out, she likes the option a sports bra offers of taking her shirt off. She's still well covered, comfortable, and cool (temp wise).


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## Storm Bride

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PatienceAndLove* 
I believe that it is a modesty issue. But then again, I operate on the idea that I should strive to dress and act in such a way that I don't purposely cause another person to sin. If I have strived to act and look in such a way, and that person still thinks or acts sinfully, that is between that person and God.

On that note- wobbley breasts and prominent nipples can lead boys, and young and older men into sinful sexual thoughts.

I'm sorry, but there is no evidence whatsoever to back this up. The only association I've ever seen between being braless and sex is that our culture is (or was when I was younger - I don't know about now) so focused on bras as "proof" of modesty that any girl/woman who chose not to wear one was perceived as being "loose".

I also find the idea that dressing in a particular way "causes" another person to sin absolutely repulsive. If I walk down the street completely naked, and am raped, it is the _rapist's_ fault, not mine. I can't "cause" someone else to sin, because the other person is responsible for his/her own actions. Period.

Quote:

And I, for one, do NOT want my daughter to be viewed as a sexual object.
I've worn a bra every time I've ever left my house, and there is no way that having a bra on is going to prevent people from thinking sexual thoughts. I'm not comfortable thinking about people ogling my kids, either...but whether or not it happens has nothing to do with what they're wearing.


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## 7thDaughter

A video speaks more clearly than Mom. Some weekend take some close-up video of her walking around and doing her sports stuff. Play it back without comment! Let her think about it. In the meantime find a good store that does fittings -- try them out yourself to find a good fitter. I found Macy's seem pretty good, staff at 2 different stores knew what they were doing. Other places I've tried advertised fittings but the person on staff really wasn't very good. So try it out ahead because a good fitter makes the difference. After a week ask her if she'd be willing to go to a fitting. Try not to gag at the cost of basic underwear...and buy quality. Cheap bras are like cheap shoes.









It may take some time. I was 21 when I got disgusted with an old guy who clearly and repeatedly stared at my chest. It was pretty much the last time I forgot to wear a bra.


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## PatienceAndLove

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I'm sorry, but there is no evidence whatsoever to back this up. The only association I've ever seen between being braless and sex is that our culture is (or was when I was younger - I don't know about now) so focused on bras as "proof" of modesty that any girl/woman who chose not to wear one was perceived as being "loose".

I also find the idea that dressing in a particular way "causes" another person to sin absolutely repulsive. If I walk down the street completely naked, and am raped, it is the _rapist's_ fault, not mine. I can't "cause" someone else to sin, because the other person is responsible for his/her own actions. Period.

Again, this is all based on my opinion that is influenced by my experiences, upbringing, and world views.
I agree that a rape that occurs is the rapists fault. I am, however, not speaking of rape. Rape is about power and not sex, ergo it has no place in this conversation.
I am speaking of dressing in a way that is intentionally sexually provocative to entice a sexual reaction in others. IMHO- intentionally wearing tops that show your breasts or pants that are tight enough to look painted on is immodest, inappropriate, and purposely cause others to have sexual thoughts.
Lastly- I never said that a bra was proof of modesty and that women who do not wear them are loose. I have friends that go braless, and that is their choice. If they asked my opinion (as the OP did), I would share my opinion and why I have it.
As a PP mentioned, she has been ogled while not wearing a bra, as have I. I find the attention that my unencumbered breasts bring embarrassing.

Quote:

I've worn a bra every time I've ever left my house, and there is no way that having a bra on is going to prevent people from thinking sexual thoughts. I'm not comfortable thinking about people ogling my kids, either...but whether or not it happens has nothing to do with what they're wearing.
I agree. People are going to think their own thoughts, and I cannot control that. I can, however, control the image that I put out for others to see.


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## MusicianDad

Her body, her choice. If she is more comfortable without a bra, then she has every right to no wear one. Far more of a right to not wear one then her parent has to make her wear one. Plenty of women don't wear bras, plenty of women only wear bras some times, and plenty of women only take them off for a shower.

She's not going to end up dead because she didn't wear a bra at 14.


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## MusicianDad

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 

I also find the idea that dressing in a particular way "causes" another person to sin absolutely repulsive. If I walk down the street completely naked, and am raped, it is the _rapist's_ fault, not mine. I can't "cause" someone else to sin, because the other person is responsible for his/her own actions. Period.


Yeah, really. I mean are males so completely incapable of controlling themselves that it's up to the females they encounter to avoid causing them to think dirty thoughts? Not how I plan on raising either of my children. My daughter will be responsible for no one but herself and my son will be taught that _he_ is the one who controls his thoughts and actions, not another person.


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## 2xy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SoulCakes* 
How is that a myth? Skin is only so elastic; it stretches when weight (breast tissue) holds it down. It's just biology/physics. Bras counteract (to some extent) the being held down, therefore bras counteract (to some extent) the stretching of the skin.

If bras prevented sagging, then the breasts wouldn't automatically drop down as soon as the bra is removed. I've never seen large breasts that stay "up there" when a bra comes off (unless they're ridiculously silicone in nature). And I've seen LOTS of boobs from past employment experiences.


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## Peppermint Poppies

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2xy* 
And I've seen LOTS of boobs from past employment experiences.









Me too! I've worked in lots of nursing homes/aged care homes, and I can tell you .... I have NEVER seen a pair of perky boobs on an elderly lady. Bras or no bras - I think they all sag eventually. Our whole body sags as we get older, there's no reason our boobs would be any different.


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## Storm Bride

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PatienceAndLove* 
Again, this is all based on my opinion that is influenced by my experiences, upbringing, and world views.
<snip>
I am speaking of dressing in a way that is intentionally sexually provocative to entice a sexual reaction in others.

What on earth does that have to do with not wearing a bra? I've never in my life met a man who found a woman going braless more provocative than a woman with her breasts held up and pointing at him...not one. I'm just wondering where you got the idea that not wearing a bra is somehow sexually provocative. In any case, this doesn't apply to the OP's dd, or to many (most?) women who choose to go braless. They choose it for reasons of comfort, and sometimes, feminist views (ie. they refuse to dress _to appeal to men_).

Quote:

IMHO- intentionally wearing tops that show your breasts or pants that are tight enough to look painted on is immodest, inappropriate, and purposely cause others to have sexual thoughts.
None of that has anything to do with someone going braless, especially for rasons of comfort. I'm also not even remotely on board with you about "purposely causing" others to have sexual thoughts. Different people are titillated by different things.

Quote:

Lastly- I never said that a bra was proof of modesty and that women who do not wear them are loose.
I never said that you said any such thing. My point is that the _only_ association between being braless and attracting extra male attention is that there are (or were - as I said, I don't know if that mindset is still prevalent) people who think that. I knew a couple guys who liked girls who went braless, even though those guys didn't like how it looked, because they believed that a girl with no bra was "easy". They'd been taught that "good girls" wore bras, and girls who didn't were, by definition, not good. But, they didn't find the braless breasts any more appealing than the ones in bras, in and of themselves.

Quote:

As a PP mentioned, she has been ogled while not wearing a bra, as have I. I find the attention that my unencumbered breasts bring embarrassing.
I'm genuinely curious. Where do you and the pp live? I've never left the house without a bra (except a few times, recently, when the kids took off and I hadn't put my bra on yet), and I've been ogled more times than I can count. I'm just trying to wrap my brain around the idea that there are men who are more likely to ogle a woman who isn't wearing a bra, because it's contrary to _all_ my experience of men.

Quote:

I agree. People are going to think their own thoughts, and I cannot control that. I can, however, control the image that I put out for others to see.
Fair enough. But, be aware that there are _lots_ of men who are _more_ likely to think sexual thoughts about you, or your daughter, when you're wearing a bra then when you're not. The mindset that a bra is inherently "more modest" is part of why so many men believe that a woman who is simply trying to stay comfortable must be an easy lay, and that mindset does a huge injustice to women, in general.


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## eclipse

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
What on earth does that have to do with not wearing a bra? I've never in my life met a man who found a woman going braless more provocative than a woman with her breasts held up and pointing at him...not one. I'm just wondering where you got the idea that not wearing a bra is somehow sexually provocative. In any case, this doesn't apply to the OP's dd, or to many (most?) women who choose to go braless. They choose it for reasons of comfort, and sometimes, feminist views (ie. they refuse to dress _to appeal to men_).

None of that has anything to do with someone going braless, especially for rasons of comfort. I'm also not even remotely on board with you about "purposely causing" others to have sexual thoughts. Different people are titillated by different things.

I never said that you said any such thing. My point is that the _only_ association between being braless and attracting extra male attention is that there are (or were - as I said, I don't know if that mindset is still prevalent) people who think that. I knew a couple guys who liked girls who went braless, even though those guys didn't like how it looked, because they believed that a girl with no bra was "easy". They'd been taught that "good girls" wore bras, and girls who didn't were, by definition, not good. But, they didn't find the braless breasts any more appealing than the ones in bras, in and of themselves.

I'm genuinely curious. Where do you and the pp live? I've never left the house without a bra (except a few times, recently, when the kids took off and I hadn't put my bra on yet), and I've been ogled more times than I can count. I'm just trying to wrap my brain around the idea that there are men who are more likely to ogle a woman who isn't wearing a bra, because it's contrary to _all_ my experience of men.

Fair enough. But, be aware that there are _lots_ of men who are _more_ likely to think sexual thoughts about you, or your daughter, when you're wearing a bra then when you're not. The mindset that a bra is inherently "more modest" is part of why so many men believe that a woman who is simply trying to stay comfortable must be an easy lay, and that mindset does a huge injustice to women, in general.

I think Lisa handled this very well. In my experience, men are more likely to enjoy the look of "perky" breasts than the look of braless breasts. (And, as someone who is overly endowed, braless and perky have always been mutually exclusive. Mine have sagged since I was 10 years old.) Also, if I'm not wearing a bra, you can't even really see the outline of them under clothes - because they are large, and sag, they look much smaller braless than they do in a bra and "at attention," so to speak. And, since my nipples point mostly downward (very convenient for nursing!), a man is much, much more likely to get a glimpse of erect nipples when I'm wearing a bra than when I'm not. For me, it's more comfortable to wear a bra, but I don't think about being sexually attractive (or not) when I make the choice to wear one (or not). I guess I don't see what bra usage (or not) has to do with "causing a man to sin," since no one is privy to what is going on in individual minds. IME, pretty much anything a woman does can provoke lust in some man or other - the world takes all types, right?


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## magentamomma

It so depends on the person. I myself feel much sexier with a bra on than off, but I do notice more looks with it off. However, basic concerns about health and comfort are more important to me than whether or not some guy is getting turned on by my breasts. In my experience big breasts will do it for many men even in a parka. For some guys if the wind blows the right way they will think about sex (some women too







) Its a personal choice about the bra, but i understand not wanting to expose a 14 yo to mens reactions. She is probably inncent of how some people may percieve her, and she may have to learn through bad experiences. You as her mom can insist that she wear tshirts thick ebnough to conceal the color of her nipples( not even bras can conceal the shape of the nipple if they are prominent) and an undershirt will help control some wobble. I have 11 yo who don't understand skirt length, and I have to tell them to put something underneath many of their outfits. Because while it is true that men are responsible for their actions, many times in reality it is women who feel the consequenses. As an 11 yo, I wore a denim mini and a tank and as i looked 15 I got catcalls from men driving by. This and other experiences surrounding my breasts and body were so confusing and traumatizing to me that I spent the majority of my teen years wearing mens clothing, sleeping in my bras, and feeling generally horrible about my breasts. I wish I had had a mother to gently explain that my breasts were beautiful, that some men are pigs, and to help me buy bras and clothes. Not to add to my shame though. Not to discuss modesty in such a way as to make me feel that breast were to be ashamed of or hidden. I know I am not articulating this as well as i would like, but this topic brings up so many emotions for me as a busty teen. I think the OP should take a little of everyones advice especially about going and getting good bras and attractive clothes that make her daughter look and feel good. Her daughter is growing up, and she will become as sexual being just around the corner, and I imagine that this is the deeper heart of the issue.None of us want our babies to grow up. We don't want them hurt or used or made to feel less than. Good luck mama!


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## Ann-Marita

Wow, Svart (the OP), you sparked quite a thread for your first post. I hope you come back and participate more, let us get to know you. It feels a little spooky to have a first-time poster start off with a bang and then disappear, so do come back.

I opt for layers rather than bras. And that's what I suggest to DD, but it's her choice.


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## harrietsmama

I have very large breasts (32 FF) and wore well fitting bras until this summer. I have so many lumps bumps and divets from wearing them and developed cysts all over where the underwires pressed on me. I now wear no bras, no camisoles, and my nipples show. I have gotten back some of my shape as my ligaments go back to doing their job of holding my breasts up and no more red swollen breasts.

I know it isn't the norm to go without a bra in our society, but I have never felt better. I don't get backaches or so much tension in my shoulders now. I wish I hadn't gone to such armor, worried about bouncing etc. I am planning to steer my dd towards the cami tank tops and decent exposures type bras so I don't ruin her lymph flow.

Google bra free and see what you think.


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## Magelet

Another bra free gal here (D cup) whose breasts got perkier after a few months of bra-free.

Anyways, I think that perhaps the best thing to do would be to talk to her about the possible effects her breasts (and showing nipples) may have on people, the attention it may garner, and the fact that it isn't really considered respectable to show the color of your nipples (I walk around with the shape of my nipples showing through my shirt regularly and the only one who seems to notice is DP. though as a teenager I hated showing my nipples and only wore lined bras, in the periods I wore bras.) Maybe talk about some undershirts, and making sure her armsleeves don't show too much breast. (though of course a bra doesn't change that, it almost makes it worse).

Really, it's her body, her choice. I feel so free not wearing a bra, and hated being badgered by my mother and sister to wear a bra. Even the most perfectly fitted bras are so uncomfortable for me at the end of the day.

(and for sports, if bouncing bothers her, may I recomend my favorite, the leotard under clothes? to me, its much more comfy than a sports bra, with similar (but gentler) smooshing and bounce negating effect.)


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## chezlyryan

Could you get her some thicker shirts? Watching the last few seasons of Friends and seeing Jennifer Aniston's nipples popping out of her shirt might give your daughter a different perspective. Personally one of the main reasons I wear a bra is to avoid having my nipples say hello to the world.


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## new2this

For me I would try sports bras or sport tanks. I guess for me its more of a protection thing as in if people can tell she isn't wearing a bra and has nipples showing then I wouldn't want some pervert having more access in seeing the "goods" kinda thing. I wouldn't want to shame her either but I guess for me its just one of those things that I see as being a woman and with having larger breasts its appropriate to do so. Thats just me though

However for me I started wearing a training bra around 9 I think. So I was eased into the whole bra thing.

As far as the sagging issue when I went to the dr to see about a lift and implants the doctor explained to me that it is all about genetics. Has nothing to do if you wear a bra or not. Shoot yes having kids can play a part but even that is such a small part in the sagging issue. If you push your boob up against your chest like flattening it and you have a crease at the top then you are built to have sag. I can't remember the proper term for it but that is what I was told when I went for my consults when looking for a surgeon.


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## morgainesmama

My fear, one undoubtedly steeped in my history and baggage (sexually abused when I was young, and also someone tried to rape me when I was 12), is of rape.

I fear, both for myself and especially for my daughter (10, for whom this is barely an issue), unreasonably or no, that _if_ I wander around showing my nipples through my shirt, or she hers, and _if_ there is someone who would be the kind to commit rape, that _then_ either of us is more likely to draw the attention of perverts.

I, of course, don't want to pass my baggage to my daughter -- so have focused, now that she's budding a bit, on asking her to layer if her nipples are visible through a shirt or if she's wearing something made of very thin fabric.

OTOH, a woman with a bra visible through her shirt would be equally as much a target, based on my fear-based logic, as a woman with visible nipples. My own bras are enormous, functional things as I'm a G cup. Most women wear prettier bras, though, and presumably, she will too.

So I don't have answer, except to say, define for yourself what the issue really is (movement/wobbling? visible nipples? social hangups about bras?) then decide whether the issue is based on convention or a feeling of needing to keep your daughter safe, then find the compromise if you decide the issue is definitely one you need to address.

For instance, if the issue is visible nipples, she would need a well-lit mirror to evaluate whether her nipples were visible through her shirt. Then she could decide whether to change her shirt or wear an undershirt.

Just my thoughts. I haven't been through it yet, but I think on it a lot, like I said, due to my own baggage.


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## smpayne

By the time I was 14, I was a D cup and was never without a bra. However, I always got teased by the boys (just for wearing a bra) and completely understand why a gril, especially a tomboy would not want to wear a bra.

I agree that video taping what your dd looks like when she goes without a bra may be the only way to convince her. If she is still in Jr. High, you may just want to wait until she is in the High School. Jr Highers are ruthless and immature and she may get teased more by changing her ways.

Comfort comes with a proper fit. I used to have huge indentations in my shoulders until I finally got the right size and style of bra. Shoulder straps should not dig, if they do, it is a bad fitting bra. Also remember at that age, what fit 6 months ago may not fit now. I remember changing at least 3 cup sizes in less than 2 years.


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## MusicianDad

Quote:


Originally Posted by *smpayne* 
By the time I was 14, I was a D cup and was never without a bra. However, I always got teased by the boys (just for wearing a bra) and completely understand why a gril, especially a tomboy would not want to wear a bra.

I agree that video taping what your dd looks like when she goes without a bra may be the only way to convince her. If she is still in Jr. High, you may just want to wait until she is in the High School. Jr Highers are ruthless and immature and she may get teased more by changing her ways.

Comfort comes with a proper fit. I used to have huge indentations in my shoulders until I finally got the right size and style of bra. Shoulder straps should not dig, if they do, it is a bad fitting bra. Also remember at that age, what fit 6 months ago may not fit now. I remember changing at least 3 cup sizes in less than 2 years.

Just want to say, proper fit and style doesn't mean squat. Babymoma only wear a bra when she has too. Even with proper fit and the most comfortable style she can find, it just feels like she's suffocating.


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## Magelet

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Just want to say, proper fit and style doesn't mean squat. Babymoma only wear a bra when she has too. Even with proper fit and the most comfortable style she can find, it just feels like she's suffocating.

Umm yeah. I agree. I've been fitted professionally, and gotten bras that overall, fit really well. Heck, they're even comfy for a few minutes. No bra is still comfortable after 2 hours, much less a school day. (Which would be why as a bra wearing teenager I was notorious for flinging my bra around the house, having taken it off the minute I got inside. I was always in pain. Even WITH a perfectly fitting bra.)


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## ollyoxenfree

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Just want to say, proper fit and style doesn't mean squat. Babymoma only wear a bra when she has too. Even with proper fit and the most comfortable style she can find, it just feels like she's suffocating.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Magelet* 
Umm yeah. I agree. I've been fitted professionally, and gotten bras that overall, fit really well. Heck, they're even comfy for a few minutes. No bra is still comfortable after 2 hours, much less a school day. (Which would be why as a bra wearing teenager I was notorious for flinging my bra around the house, having taken it off the minute I got inside. I was always in pain. Even WITH a perfectly fitting bra.)

I'd at least let a 14 y.o. try to find a good fit in a comfortable style, and see if a professional fitting helps at all. If she really can't find anything she likes, then bra-free is always an option. Giving up at age 14 seems like giving up without really trying.

By any chance, has she always been a kid with sensitivities to scratchy fabrics, clothing tags, bulky seams etc.? I imagine that the same kids who are highly sensitive to these things are also very uncomfortable in a bra.


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## MusicianDad

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ollyoxenfree* 
I'd at least let a 14 y.o. try to find a good fit in a comfortable style, and see if a professional fitting helps at all. If she really can't find anything she likes, then bra-free is always an option. Giving up at age 14 seems like giving up without really trying.

By any chance, has she always been a kid with sensitivities to scratchy fabrics, clothing tags, bulky seams etc.? I imagine that the same kids who are highly sensitive to these things are also very uncomfortable in a bra.

Or it could just be that she just doesn't want to wear a bra at this point in her life. It doesn't mean she's giving up...


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## BetsyNY

Skipping past all the "sinful thoughts" nonsense...

I developed quite early--way earlier than 14--and had to come into wearing a bra in my own time. I was much more self-conscious with one than without one. She may be 14, but she is still a child...try to see it as you would a four-year-old who insists on wearing his cape everywhere. Coming of age is difficult; her resistance is completely appropriate for a teenager!


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## Ellien C

http://www.007b.com/

bra-free at double oh 7 b


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## SpiderMum

I started wearing bras later when I as 15 or so. Leave the choice to her. She will figure out if she's uncomfortable in them or not. I also recommend looking up brafree.org or similar sites. I stopped wearing bras this past year and it really help with my back pain! During the summer I wear oversized sports bras just to help avoid all the sweating, but they do almost nothing as far as support which I prefer.


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## Marsupialmom

I have heard my 12 year old girl chat with her friends............"your boobs hurt less after running if you were a bra."

I personally can not see how she or anyone else could do a sport and not have nipple pain. The rubbing on the shirt would be "OUCH" for me.

I hate bras also, wear them when I go into work. I also wear mostly shelf type bras because if I don't fungus likes to grow in folds  Something to help life, air, and absorb moister prevents me issues (I know this is me)

I remember at one point in time, my mom put her foot down and said tank tops at school and bras and softball. I honestly think she was tired of hearing me whine. They came off right as I walked through the door, or in the car.

I would get her sports bras and some powder to absorb sweat. Then say request she wear an undershirt. There are so many tank tops out there that look cute under clothes. Heck my 12 year old often wears, bra, tank, and T-shirt.

I don't always agree with "Her body, Her choice" growing up. My 12 year old bought a thin white T-shirt. It never dawned on her that it can be seen through. Same thing with a yellow bathing suit. At this age we are still guiding them. I do think a blunt, but gentle converstation with her is needed. She needs to know how people will perceive her and if she is ok with it.

If she wants to go braless then at least let her know why people might look and how to navigate the issues. I feel it is no different than when my child purple hair or blue hair. I asked them how they think people would perceive them. Gave them the tools to navigate the situations. I also through out adult situations.


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