# Alittle confused? "Options" given at a hospital birth



## SuperMoM2GTO (Dec 13, 2006)

I had a hospital birth with my son & when/if I didnt want something done they didnt make me do it. Reading some of the posts on here has made me think that maybe this is not the case for all women...

So my question is: if a doctor at the hospital wants you to do something you dont want, cant you say "no"?


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## notjustmamie (Mar 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SuperMoM2GTO* 
So my question is: if a doctor at the hospital wants you to do something you dont want, cant you say "no"?

Well, the short answer is "Yes, you can decline anything you want" but in reality it's a little more complicated than that.

In some cases, hospital personnel threaten (or actually do) call CPS if you try to refuse certain treatments. I have heard of some cases where a judge has actually removed custody of a newborn from his or her parents when they've tried to decline some standard procedures.

Other times, hospitals and care providers simply say, "We do xyz procedure it this way" and don't open the discussion to other options. Many moms never know that xyz procedure may not have to be done at all or that they could request it be delayed or completed in a different manner.

Another thing that many hcps don't discuss ahead of time is that laboring moms are often very susceptible to the suggestions of others. If labor is taking a long time (for example) and you are feeling tired, your OB may say "You've been at this a long time, let's do a c/s." Most moms are not in a place mentally or emotionally to ask questions or fight such a statement at that point, especially if they trust their doctor to do only what is best for the mom and baby.

Just some other scenarios to consider.

Amy


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## hubris (Mar 8, 2003)

Another thing to consider: some women are really compliant during labor/birth. I'm one of those women. I really wanted to stand/squat to give birth to my second child. I was standing and laboring effectively (from my point of view) next to the bed and starting to push uncoached when my water broke. Suddenly everybody was breaking down the bed, trying to get me into the bed (in the lithotomy position), wanting a fetal monitor on me. None of it was what I really wanted, but I went along with it. Laborland is like that for me. Yeah, I could have said NO, but I didn't. My DH even tried to tell them I didn't want to do it that way, and I told him it was ok and shushed him! The staff wasn't forcing anything on me, they were just doing things they way they're used to doing them, and from their point of view, I willingly went along with it.

Labor makes me a less assertive person. Yeah, I had options, and could have fought for them, but I didn't because I wasn't capable of doing so in that moment.


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

It is very difficult to argue with a determined nurse/doctor when you are in the middle of transition, unfortunately.


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## Jenlaana (Oct 28, 2005)

You can ABSOLUTELY decline anything. If they choose to fight you on it, YOU are in the right, NOT them. They have no right to force any proceedures on you OR your baby. You can definitely have an empowered birth where YOU make the choices, and not them.

Unfortunately as PPs said, it might be a battle. I would not expect a judge to take away your rights (thats a very very extreme case) but I would expect anything ranging from a discussion w/ the nurses/doctors to a downright hostile experience. Its worth it though, IMO to get the birth that you want.


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## bryonyvaughn (May 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SuperMoM2GTO* 
...So my question is: if a doctor at the hospital wants you to do something you dont want, cant you say "no"?

*IF* the doctor or nurse at the hospital or home *TELLS* you what (s)he wants to do, you have every right to refuse it. Unfortunately some medical (un)professionals figure if they don't ask you won't refuse.

During vag exams medicos have aggressively stripped membranes without women's foreknowledge or consent. I had a midwife *accidentally* rupture my membranes during my first dilation check. That same midwife spiked my tea with both blue & black cohosh without my knowledge of permission. In hospitals just like in bars, for women's safety, they should only drink things they've seen opened or watched prepared from beginning to end. (It's corollary is why why heplocks are safer than IVs.) If the drink leaves their sight they should get another new one instead of drinking from the old. Women have had pitocin added to their IVs without their knowledge or consent. I know one woman whose midwife, without informing her first let alone getting consent, manually and forcibly dilated her from 8cm to 10cm to attach the vacuum extractor to her baby's head because she "cared for her so much (she) didn't want to see her in any more pain." Many attendants perform episiotomies, cut cords, suction babies, perform cord traction and even manually remove placentas without women's knowledge or consent. There are a lot of birth attendants out there who have great reputations and high standing in their communities and still behave monstrously.

While I'm very glad you were never victimized in such a way, I think it's important to warn women about common practices so they won't be caught off guard.

~BV


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## Therese's Mommy (Jan 15, 2005)

Sometimes in the heat of things the drs start laying on the "you are putting your baby's life at risk". Now I was pretty educated (but certainly not the most educated) first time mother and they got me with that one. I had been in the hospital for 48 hrs and was very resistant to the pit they wanted to give me. I was even talking about checking myself out AMA, then the dr came in and gave me that speech. What was I to do? He does have more formal education than me. So I caved. Thank God the induction didn't hurt dd and she came out fine. This time I am with a different practice and I trust them alot more. Plus, my labor support person is the wife of an MD and has had 10 births 8 of which were hospital births (other 2 were birth center). So, I have tried to put things in place so that this won't happen to me again.

So, in my case it isn't as if they held me down and did something against my will, but I do feel that I was bullied.

Beth


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## velcromom (Sep 23, 2003)

Most hospitals don't offer options, they come into your room and tell you what they are going to do (if you are lucky, they at least warn you) but they don't ASK your permission, they assume by your presence there that you are going to let them do whatever they want. In my experience in hospitals both during childbirth and for various family member's surgeries, it's more like, "We are going to do XYZ now", or "It's time for XYZ now". I've never once heard a nurse or doctor ask the patient if _they_ wanted the procedure.


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## Ygle (Mar 2, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SuperMoM2GTO* 
I had a hospital birth with my son & when/if I didnt want something done they didnt make me do it.

I'd be curious to know what sort of choices those were? This is the reason we opted for a homebirth this time because we weren't able to make the choices we wanted and when talking to the obs during this pregnancy we were trying to find out just how much say and control we had... went round and round on various issues and scenarios and it just came down to the only *real* choice we had was whether we wanted to walk through the hospital doors or not. Some things just are really not an option at the hospital here... like absolutely no food if you are in labor, you have to have an IV if your water broke already... some things it just depends whose there on how tough a battle you might have (there were a few things I was not given a choice on where I know some others with a different staff were able to choose differently... this was one of the things I discussed with the OBs about requesting a different nurse, even that's not always an option).


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## MyBoysBlue (Apr 27, 2007)

With my first birth i didn't question anything and just went along with all the procedures that they did. Fortunately there wasn't anything done that was against my beliefs at the time. I did refuse an episiotomy. My Doc just said he was going to "cut because I was getting a little tight." Uh Yah I'm pushing out a baby. I just said no I prefer to rip and he didn't cut. But they way he said it was a statement not a question. If I didn't know I could say "no" I would have ended up cut. If I was to do it again I would have refuse a few more things now that I know differently.

With my second birth I refused alot of the routine testing during pregnancy and by 38 weeks when I refuse to agree to antibiotics during labour my doc told me to find another doctor as I obviously didn't trust his abilities.

Luckily I wasn't planning on using him anyway as I was planning on a UC.


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## SuperMoM2GTO (Dec 13, 2006)

Wow this all is really enlightening to me







:

I guess in a sence I can relate some of it but I didnt feel pushed into it at the time. This time around I am not planning on hospital care, I was just wondering other's experiences.

Thanks all!


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## Annie37 (Mar 3, 2007)

This is a good thread for me,as I *have* to have my baby in the hospital due to being high risk (placenta previa,still waiting to hear whether or not I have to have a CS) .
I have a question: Do most hospitals still decline to allow women to eat/drink during labor? I went on a hospital tour the other day & I heard mention of "ice chips for Mom"... and I'm thinking..." ahhh...so we will be sneaking the drinks THIS time,too??? " NO WAY am I going thru labor w/out a drink. I am liable to start THROWING the blankety-blank ice chips!!







:


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## SuperMoM2GTO (Dec 13, 2006)

When I was in labor with my son, they encouraged me to drink as much water as I wanted. No food, though (except jello uke)


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## lyttlewon (Mar 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SuperMoM2GTO* 
I had a hospital birth with my son & when/if I didnt want something done they didnt make me do it. Reading some of the posts on here has made me think that maybe this is not the case for all women...

So my question is: if a doctor at the hospital wants you to do something you dont want, cant you say "no"?

Sure but you really aren't in the position to stop it if they do something. I said I didn't want an episiotomy. The DR was going to cut me anyway and the L&D nurse stopped her. I wouldn't have known it was happening until it was too late. It wasn't like she said, "Hey can I cut you right now?" she was just going to do it.


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## lyttlewon (Mar 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annie37* 
This is a good thread for me,as I *have* to have my baby in the hospital due to being high risk (placenta previa,still waiting to hear whether or not I have to have a CS) .
I have a question: Do most hospitals still decline to allow women to eat/drink during labor? I went on a hospital tour the other day & I heard mention of "ice chips for Mom"... and I'm thinking..." ahhh...so we will be sneaking the drinks THIS time,too??? " NO WAY am I going thru labor w/out a drink. I am liable to start THROWING the blankety-blank ice chips!!







:









I attended a birth with a friend in January and her hospital fed her the entire time. The one I was at in Febuary they didn't feed her. My own I didn't want to eat my labor was short and intense. I demanded food before my doctor left the room though.


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## Quindin (Aug 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annie37* 
This is a good thread for me,as I *have* to have my baby in the hospital due to being high risk (placenta previa,still waiting to hear whether or not I have to have a CS) .
I have a question: Do most hospitals still decline to allow women to eat/drink during labor? I went on a hospital tour the other day & I heard mention of "ice chips for Mom"... and I'm thinking..." ahhh...so we will be sneaking the drinks THIS time,too??? " NO WAY am I going thru labor w/out a drink. I am liable to start THROWING the blankety-blank ice chips!!







:










I have never heard of a hospital that allowed food during labour - not even in Denmark where hospitals are so baby friendly. The max. I was allowed to have was a bit of red juice for the sugar kick, but that was it! I really doubt any hospital in US allows food. My last labour was the only one I had after eating well (I ordered ribs and fries) and it was AMAZING how wonderfully I was able to cope! I highly recommend it to anyone! My midwife at the birth center just said: "you don't send a farmer to the fields after ice chips!









ETA - On my hospital birth in the US, they lied, threatened and scared me in order to get me to do everything they wanted. It was amazing at how low they would go to get me to comply. Just one of the reasons why I am praying I will never put my feet in a hospital to give birth again!


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## _betsy_ (Jun 29, 2004)

I said no to lots of things during my hospital birth. Or at least delayed the things I wanted delayed - like the routine newborn screenings which they wanted to take baby for and I had them done while she was on my chest or after about 15 minutes.


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## ericswifey27 (Feb 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bryonyvaughn* 
*IF* the doctor or nurse at the hospital or home *TELLS* you what (s)he wants to do, you have every right to refuse it. Unfortunately some medical (un)professionals figure if they don't ask you won't refuse.

Yes. I went in wanting a natural birth with my first but was naive in thinking wanting it was enough. I had not planned for the deception and the outright lies I got from medical staff. Thinking that they had my best interest at heart, I followed the ridiculous "do not eat" rule throughout my labor. I was given pitocin without my knowledge and an internal fetal monitor was placed without my knowledge and who knows what else was done that I couldn't decipher in my medical records. Finally, the "dead baby" card was played and I submitted to a csection. After reviewing my medical records it was clear it was extremely unneccessary, both mom and baby were perfectly healthy.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bryonyvaughn* 
While I'm very glad you were never victimized in such a way, I think it's important to warn women about common practices so they won't be caught off guard.

~BV

Yes! You don't have to have a poor birth experience yourself to recognize how bad it can get. A heads up would have been much appreciated in my case.


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## Kitten (Jan 10, 2005)

Quote:

I really doubt any hospital in US allows food.
Did you mean US or UK? I had no problem getting whatever I wanted to eat, whenever I wanted to eat it, at my hospital labor. I even ordered a full meal during labor and got it. (However, by the time it arrived I was too far in active labor to feel like actually eating a meal. But I could have had I wanted to. And I had unlimited snacks and drinks whenever I wanted.)

That said, I am still having a homebirth this time. Being at the hospital stinks no matter how nice the hospital is. It's still a hospital.


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## courtenay_e (Sep 1, 2005)

Yes, some hospitals do encourage eating, but they are few and far between...in our area, anyway. We do run the entire spectrum, though, of hospitals who will allow any food at any time to hospitals who will only "allow" IV fluids.

The thing is, as pp's have mentioned, for the most part, you have every right to demand or refuse whatever procedures you want...but you may have a very hard fight in your hands. And, frankly, it's not necessarily a fight that you'll be able/prepared to fight when you're in active labor. One choice would be to NOT place yourself in the hospital. Another choice would be to find the hospital with the lowest intervention rates and the DOCTOR with the lowest intervention rates (ask the homebirth community in your area which doctor backs up the midwives in your area and you might just find your best option)...and then get a doula.

And the fight would most often be because they don't know what else to do BUT the procedure that they were set to practice on you. Because it is so routine...on top of the fact that, it being protocol means that if they DON'T do whatever it is, the staff will be facing censure for not doing what THEY are told. They're not necessarily being jerks...they are just not used to educated women who want ANYTHING other than what they usually do. I actually had one nurse look at a couple I was attending and say, "Well, we can't just sit around and do NOTHING!!" to which the father replied, "Why? Is there something wrong with the baby? Are my wife's stats going bad?" the nurse answered, very uncomfortably, "Well, no, everything is fine...but we're just not used to doing NOTHING!" I thought that that was extremely telling!


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## Momma Aimee (Jul 8, 2003)

Quote:

So my question is: if a doctor at the hospital wants you to do something you dont want, cant you say "no"?
You can refuse anything -- including an emergency C-section unless they go get a court order to protect the unborn child.

In reality -- it depends on WHAT you are refuseing and WHY they find it necessary and WHO you are delaing with.

I refused eye goop, all hosptial vax, circ, and so on.....for teh circ i wrote refused on the concent form, for the others i had to sign a form noteing we were refusing.

I have a freind who refused an eperdural and had a forcept delievery without any medication or other intervention......

BUT how much grief you catch -- depends on the hosptial and the providers, i know people who have been railed about refuseing the new born bath and eye stuff.......no one blinked an eye at us, just gave us the form to sign (had it with them too, didn't even have to go get it).

Most of the stuff depends on the hsoptial -- for example mine and my older sister's both encouraged eating as long as you feel you can -- real food. mine has a food room, witha buffett 3 times a day, and food all the time. DH can eat sas much as he wantes and bring me as much as i want. mom went and got me food, doula went and got me food, nurses offered to bring me food. drinks too. i think there is a change taking place and this is becoming more common. Sis had full meals deleivered to her room during active labor..... The one we were born at and little sister birthed at did not, but when i took her food they said nothing.......some i hear discourage it. and even at the same hosptial a lot if going to depend on your provider and how she or he likes to do things and how supportive of your choices she or he is.

many of us have to be in a hospital ..... it is a question of getting a good provider and a good hosptial..........and advocating for changes in the system as possible.

Quote:

went round and round on various issues and scenarios and it just came down to the only *real* choice we had was whether we wanted to walk through the hospital doors or not.
I NEVER felt that way.







am sad you did. I knew that short of hemmeraqgeing and going unconsious or being litteraly in a life or dealth immedate situation our CNM would let us choose everything and consult us on everything ........I feel the same way about our OB. Our Ob is MORE hands off and always telling me "I am an advisor, you have to choose for your family" heck our CNM was more pushy.







. ............... what both of our prividers did was talk to us, at appt -- early -- about what interventions we were and weren't ok with, what they considered an emeregency and what we considered an emergency and we agreed up front that in what setting would we jsut let go and let them "take over" in both cases it has been only when time is of such an factor they have to ... and actually our OB is a lot less jumpy than the CNM about whatis "high risk" and what is not.







..................... our OB knows what we what and don't want and they are things he too is committed to. but we all know we want to walk out of there with a health baby, so if i start to bleed out, or my heart stops or anything "totally unlikely, but still withint he realmes of possible" happens.. the OB knows to do whatever he has to to save us both.............short of that i am confident the is going to incude us in the decisions. and Frankly -- in the few cases like that -- THAT is why we have him







He told me "don't worry there are so very few situations where we won't have time to talk. and that is why we are talking now"

Quote:

In my experience in hospitals both during childbirth and for various family member's surgeries, it's more like, "We are going to do XYZ now", or "It's time for XYZ now". I've never once heard a nurse or doctor ask the patient if they wanted the procedure.
it was ALWAYS presnted to DH and I as "let's talk abotu YVF now" or "given **** woudl you like to consider VVVVV. Here is why I/we think it would be a good thing to think abotu....we'll give you time to talk about it..." or "have you thought about YGH can I give you some information, or answer any wuestions". this was true even when i had pushed for over 3 hours, the baby was stuck and MY BP and oxgyn level were being effected "we would like to talk about bringing in an OB to see about maybe helping with forcepts or a vacumee" "I think it is getitng close tot he time that you are going to need some kind of help before we get in a situation wehre your health is in danger".......... I had ONE intervention i didn't want, but my doula actually told me she agreed, and so did DH and my mom ... and it was a case of doing one little thing now so as not to have to do more later, and i agrred to the logic of that, and i did get my extra hour to keep trying naturally, so while i agrred finally, i was not forced or pushed into it.

again, and again, and again, it is the provider you choose and the hosptial you choose. Locally i have heard horror stories about the local birth center and the CNM that runs it that hates douals ....... it is all int eh provider and location you choose,

and remember you can ALWAY request a differnt nurse, or a 4th differnt nurse









there is good and bad in every situation or choice..........

Aimee


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## bryonyvaughn (May 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *courtenay_e* 
..."Why? Is there something wrong with the baby? Are my wife's stats going bad?" the nurse answered, very uncomfortably, "Well, no, everything is fine...but we're just not used to doing NOTHING!"









: I just LOVE it when people tell more truth than they ever intended.








... especially when it confirms what I *knew* to be true all along.

~BV


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## cristeen (Jan 20, 2007)

I don't know that anyone *made* me do anything during my son's birth, but they sure tried.

I was in (induced) labor for 37 hours, and I was fed twice, both in the first 6 hours. After that, if my BF hadn't gone and picked up take-out, both DH and I would have been starving.

They repeatedly tried to "convince" me to get an epidural. I wound up on morphine because I couldn't handle the pain, but there was no way I was going to voluntarily let anyone paralyze me. About an hour or two before he was born, when the contractions were 45 seconds long, 2 minutes apart, one of the doctors came in and tried to brow-beat me into getting the epidural again. I was at a point where I couldn't speak, the contractions were coming so hard and fast. Both DH and BF literally had to argue with her to get her to leave me alone because she refused to take no for an answer. That was the last doctor we saw until almost 8 hours after he was born... they obviously didn't appreciate being told off.

By the time we left, DH vowed that he would never fight me on HB again.


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## Quindin (Aug 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kitten* 
Did you mean US or UK?

The USA

The hospitals in Europe are for the most part more easy going than in the states.


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## mom3b1? (Jun 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SuperMoM2GTO* 
I had a hospital birth with my son & when/if I didnt want something done they didnt make me do it. Reading some of the posts on here has made me think that maybe this is not the case for all women...

So my question is: if a doctor at the hospital wants you to do something you dont want, cant you say "no"?

During my two hospital pregnancies and births in Michigan I was told that If I refused tests I could no longer see my OB, or they would call CPS. I was told both things at various times. When I discussed not wanting some tests with Midwives who attend homebirths in some cases I was told that they don't attend patients unless they have the tests because they don't feel comfortable doing so (not because of legal requirements). There are also some tests that are required by law in some states.

Not everybody has real options in pregnancy in birth if they want to have a healthcare provider involved with their pregnancy or birth.

Kiley


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## mom3b1? (Jun 3, 2007)

Jenlaana said:


> You can ABSOLUTELY decline anything. If they choose to fight you on it, YOU are in the right, NOT them. They have no right to force any proceedures on you OR your baby. You can definitely have an empowered birth where YOU make the choices, and not them.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## Momma Aimee (Jul 8, 2003)

Quote:

During my two hospital pregnancies and births in Michigan I was told that If I refused tests I could no longer see my OB, or they would call CPS. I was told both things at various times. When I discussed not wanting some tests with Midwives who attend homebirths in some cases I was told that they don't attend patients unless they have the tests because they don't feel comfortable doing so (not because of legal requirements). There are also some tests that are required by law in some states.
Not the whole state.

My sister has birthed twice in MI -- outside Detroit. she has refused most testing, worked with a great CNm, birthed in a birth center connected to a hospital, and refused all new born "stuff".......with out grief or trouble. She has had two nonmedical, natural births in more or less a hotial (it is in a hosptial, jsut a differnt wing, connected tot he OB wing)..............

so ....... it depends.

and in all my years of foster care -- and all my firends in CSP -- i have never head any of that, save here on MDC. and i never took care of a child taken from a family for a natural birth plan or refusal of interventions. ......... really i have never encountred that in IRL -- either as happneing, or the fear of it happneing tOTHER THAN ON mdc...........


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## Kitten (Jan 10, 2005)

Quote:

and in all my years of foster care -- and all my firends in CSP -- i have never head any of that, save here on MDC. and i never took care of a child taken from a family for a natural birth plan or refusal of interventions. ......... really i have never encountred that in IRL -- either as happneing, or the fear of it happneing tOTHER THAN ON mdc...........
Are you suggesting that people here are lying about their experiences? I hope not.







: I've seen newspaper stories about women losing babies to foster care, or being threatened about losing babies to foster care so I know this is true, that CPS can and does cause problems for people who refuse mainstream medical care. I don't have time to look for links but if you go to thecowgoddess.com Hathor has run stories about this. I'm sure other people here can point you in the right direction as well.

I suspect you see it more here on MDC because on every other board I have ever been to, no one ever questions doctors since in Mainstream America OBs are gods.


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## Jenlaana (Oct 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kitten* 
Are you suggesting that people here are lying about their experiences? I hope not.







:

I read it as it being very few and far between, that someone in that field does not ever hear about it. Thats my experience as well, although UCs are a whole different story. I know more than one mom in RL that had issues with being investigated, but again, UC is not a very common method of birth these days, so finding someone who UC'd locally is tough, let alone finding the 10% (or whatever the number is) that had to deal with CPS.

As for no hospital in the US allowing food... a lot of it has to do with the doctors and midwives that you are using as well. Not to mention the hospital itself. A hospital that deals with a lot of high risk pregnancies is going to have a lot more of a control issue, because they're used to dealing with being in control of things. It seems really backwards to me, but the hospital I finally found where I could have a "good" birth if I wanted it, with all the hands off that I require, is a low risk hospital out in the middle of nowhere, and the hospitals that really SUCKED were the ones in higher populated areas.

I have toured 3 hospitals during my last pregnancy and am going to a CNM that delivers at a 4th hospital, and 2 of the 4 said absolutely no food or drink whatsoever. The third (from last pregnancy) said that it was up to my doctor (as was the last word on all interventions/comforts - i.e. they had no problem with food if the OB didn't, had no problem with a birth ball if the OB didnt, etc) Needless to say, the OB I had who delivered at that hospital didnt think I even deserved a trial of labor, let alone any comfort measures. For the 4th hospital, I have not toured yet, but I did speak at great length to my midwife. She has been very up front and told me that I am free to decline any intervention I choose, that she encourages eating and movement and changing positions, and would have no problem with skipping the IV until/unless it was necessary. She said that going into the hospital, they would want me to do "standard proceedure stuff" and that it would probably be a bit of a pain, but that she would be there and as long as she was in agreement with us, they would not give us much trouble. (she even wants to give me her pager so that I can give her a heads up before we head up that way, so she can be in attendence)


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## Graceoc (Mar 26, 2002)

I am following this thread with great intereste as I am considering a hospital birth this time around....

Quote:

My sister has birthed twice in MI -- outside Detroit. she has refused most testing, worked with a great CNm, birthed in a birth center connected to a hospital, and refused all new born "stuff".......with out grief or trouble. She has had two nonmedical, natural births in more or less a hotial (it is in a hosptial, jsut a differnt wing, connected tot he OB wing)..............
She must have been at the place I had my DD! I was FANTASTIC and I would go there again in a second if I was still in MI. I even had a waterbirth there even though I really wasn't *supposed* to LOL! My mw and the nurses were FANSTASTI, I was eating a loaded baked potato while sitting in the tub. I pushed when I was ready, no one made me get out of the tub and they never took my little girl out of my or DH's hands the whole time.

Boy how I wish I was living there now...it would make this birth decision so much easier....


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## GinaRae (Mar 27, 2007)

I said no episiotomy and the doctor didn't do one.

But he did reach into me and stretch me as far as he could for several minutes during the delivery.

This left little tears all over me inside and out that were excruciating for weeks. I believe by his personality (during our prenatals and the delivery) and the look on his face when I asked for no episiotomy, he did this maliciously.

During the prenatals I made it clear I didn't like his charm and personality because he wasn't supportive and was just giving me a stand-up comedy routine or playing music on my reflexes (he would hit my knees to his tune and my legs would jump). So I think he made it clear in delivery how much he despised me in return.


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## GinaRae (Mar 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kitten* 
I've seen newspaper stories about women losing babies to foster care, or being threatened about losing babies to foster care so I know this is true, that CPS can and does cause problems for people who refuse mainstream medical care.

When my last son was born in the hospital almost 6 years ago, there was something that had happened that we'd been warned about. Something that was reliable enough that really freaked out my husband, so when they stole our baby against our wishes and kept him crying under a warmer in the nursery, my husband (who is a battle axe about things) was convinced he had no choice. We have NO reason to fear CPS ever, and yet he was worried they would call if he stole his baby back.

CPS does get called sometimes. I just WISH I could now remember what had happened to spook us so badly.


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

Quote:

I even ordered a full meal during labor and got it. (However, by the time it arrived I was too far in active labor to feel like actually eating a meal
That was no accident. They took their time bringing it to you.

I think if you want something special during labor you should stay home. A hospital is an institution and is run by the inmates, I mean, the nurses and doctors who run it for their own convenience, not yours.

Quote:

During the prenatals I made it clear I didn't like his charm and personality because he wasn't supportive and was just giving me a stand-up comedy routine or playing music on my reflexes (he would hit my knees to his tune and my legs would jump). So I think he made it clear ...
I think you were forwarned with this one. He is not the only "standup act" in town I am sure. You could have changed doctors. You give birth only once to this child and most women only have one or two children in our society. Why put up with a jerk like this? He got paid for it also, I am sure. That is almost like a sexual attack. So rude.


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## SuperMoM2GTO (Dec 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom3b1?* 

Not everybody has real options in pregnancy in birth if they want to have a healthcare provider involved with their pregnancy or birth.

Kiley


I am really starting to understand this







:

Depending on what this "new" clinic Im seeing on Thursday says I may have to do UC. Not because I want to, but because I wont have any other choice. I just cant believe how powerless we (pregnant) are dealing with "modern medicine" I cant think of one other example (right now) where they can outright deny you treatment unless you "do it their way"







:







: uke


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## SuperMoM2GTO (Dec 13, 2006)

I want to clarify my posts.

When I gave birth to my son, it was in a hospital in Washington state. I was definitely not as "green" as I am now but I never felt pressured into anything. Maybe if I thought then how I do now my experience would have been different









Here on the East Coast I am finding things alot different as far as how they handle/treat pregnacy. Even my own regular doctor (whom I have a very good relationship with) told me it would be very hard if not impossible finding a medical care person that would see me, let alone help me birth this child, without internal exams done. He also told me I would likey face refusal of services if I denied the Rho-gam







:


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## Jenlaana (Oct 28, 2005)

I think part of it is the assumption that all pregnant women are crazy. I hate to say that, but thats how I was treated with my first. I was very beligerent (I even shoved my tray and as a result my food went flying across the room) and was very hard to deal with. Instead of backing down and being "nice" to me, they forced me through the whole ordeal at their pace. At the time I was 18, scared to death and facing not only the first surgery of my life, but the first time EVER in a hospital (never went even to visit a sick person prior) I was treated like a crazy stupid girl, and as a result just thought in retrospect that I was a crazy stupid girl who was not meant to have any children. It took almost 10 years for me to realize that wasnt the case and brave having another child.


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## Kitten (Jan 10, 2005)

Quote:

That was no accident. They took their time bringing it to you.
Actually, not true. I ordered lunch while in labor as well. It arrived on time and I ate it. I ordered supper at the usual ordering time and it arrived on time as well. My labor just picked up tremendously in the interim.

We were also actively encouraged to keep getting food and drinks from the snack room on the floor as well, for as long as I actually felt like eating. They had, let me see if I can remember, chocolate chip cookies, milk, bagels, sandwiches, ice cream, fruit, among other food. The CNM who attended my labor said as long as I felt like eating, I should keep eating as much food as I wanted to keep up my energy.

That said, we will still have a homebirth for our next. First of all, the insurance we have now will only cover the other hospital in town that does births, and that hospital absolutely stinks. Secondly, even if the insurance covered the same hospital as the first time, I'd still choose homebirth. As nice as *some* hospitals *can* be they still don't compare with being at home.


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## bryonyvaughn (May 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jenlaana* 
...Instead of backing down and being "nice" to me, they forced me through the whole ordeal at their pace. At the time I was 18, scared to death and facing not only the first surgery of my life, but the first time EVER in a hospital (never went even to visit a sick person prior) I was treated like a crazy stupid girl, and as a result just thought in retrospect that I was a crazy stupid girl who was not meant to have any children. It took almost 10 years for me to realize that wasnt the case and brave having another child.









I'm sorry, Jenlaana.

It's all too common for L&D nurses to behave abusively to teen moms. It's as if they are punishing a disobedient teenager for breaking their personal moral code. It's unprofessional, boundary disrespecting, toxic relationship stuff and all too common.

~BV


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## eveblac (Feb 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bryonyvaughn* 
*IF* the doctor or nurse at the hospital or home *TELLS* you what (s)he wants to do, you have every right to refuse it. Unfortunately some medical (un)professionals figure if they don't ask you won't refuse.

During vag exams medicos have aggressively stripped membranes without women's foreknowledge or consent. I had a midwife *accidentally* rupture my membranes during my first dilation check. That same midwife spiked my tea with both blue & black cohosh without my knowledge of permission. In hospitals just like in bars, for women's safety, they should only drink things they've seen opened or watched prepared from beginning to end. (It's corollary is why why heplocks are safer than IVs.) If the drink leaves their sight they should get another new one instead of drinking from the old. Women have had pitocin added to their IVs without their knowledge or consent. I know one woman whose midwife, without informing her first let alone getting consent, manually and forcibly dilated her from 8cm to 10cm to attach the vacuum extractor to her baby's head because she "cared for her so much (she) didn't want to see her in any more pain." Many attendants perform episiotomies, cut cords, suction babies, perform cord traction and even manually remove placentas without women's knowledge or consent. There are a lot of birth attendants out there who have great reputations and high standing in their communities and still behave monstrously.

While I'm very glad you were never victimized in such a way, I think it's important to warn women about common practices so they won't be caught off guard.

~BV

Exactly, I was subjected to much treatment like this. I was in lala land, saying "no wait what did you just do..." in a very weak voice, through alot of it... I am a strong person but was just so emotionally vulnerable... and hearing constant loud YOUR BABY COULD BE AT RISK IF YOU DONT COMPLY is a very threatening way to "force" someone into co-operation...

i had an IV threaded into my hand even though I didn't want it, I don't recall how that happened exactly, I just remember saying I wanted to drink water & if they had to they could put it in later... don't remember why she did it anyways, but I did contemplate taking it out (wish I had).

because that IV was in, they were able to administer nubain (narcotic) pretty much against my will, I said NO i dont want pain relievers, they said but your baby is in distress because you cant relax, so here you go it'll just take the edge off. but it made me fall asleep between contractions, and very nauseous, & drugged & groggy, i felt sick & couldn't wait for it to wear off.

also the DR ruptured my water bag without asking or telling me, i wouldve been happy to deliver him with it intact but he did it anyways, next thing you know he announced that there was meconium stool in the waters, i was angry because i "knew" it already & i also knew he burst my bag without asking, it was almost like a rape because he said he was just going to check me but there was an amnio hook in his hand when i looked down to see.

they insisted on fetal monitor, because my baby was "distressed" for whatever reason they determined. also had to keep a blood pressure cuff on me, the nurse kept putting it back on even though i wuold rip it off & throw It telling her i did not need it. she put it on like she was mad at me almost.

I didnt want the vagina exams, because they were hurting, to check my cervix. i said the lube burned & the nurse said it was nonsense i couldn't be feeling any pain from that, but it BURNED!!! i felt it!! they kept using it every 30 min to check me, & every time i felt like i closed up inside from the pain.

they pushed pitocin on me when my son was out, i had no intentions of EVER taking pitocin but since that IV was there they just went ahead & hooked it up. my son had just come out so i wasnt really paying attention to the nurse hooking up a bag or whatever, next thing you know

the doctor was pulling on the umbilical cord, my son hadnt been out more then 10 minutes, the doc pulled my cord & finally the placenta, i said no what are you doing dont do that it hurts what if it tears, i was in a panic, he said dont worry you have pitocin to help close you up or something to that effect, is when i realized i had the pitocin going into me without my permission.

he said he would stitch me up (very small tear), after he was done he told my partner, she only needed 3 but i put in 4 and he looked proud, my partner said why did you put 4 if she only needed 3, he said its called the husbands knot, if you know what i mean.

it was frustrating because it hurt to have sex afterwards it was too small there, he made it smaller & it looks uneven, he did cosmetic surgery (i consider it such) without even telling me till it was over.

and so forth.

alot of stuff, it just happens so fast (oh the cord, that was clamped & whacked so fast my head was reeling).

plus i delivered on thanksgiving, my "midwife" yeah right she wasnt on call so a MALE OBSTETRICIAN delivered my baby. i felt so let down & violated, like i couldnt fight for myself. i was even doing like one woman telling my partner just SHH, hold my hand & then i would close my eyes b/c i couldnt stop it, they talk over me louder then me & just do stuff without asking.










this is why i will not go to the hospital again, it was very hard time for me & they did NOT do as i asked or made me do things i would not have done if i was not in labor.


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## SublimeBirthGirl (Sep 9, 2005)

I'm curious-what did you refuse? Did you say "Well, I'm hungry so I'm going to eat something but thanks for your concern." How do you think they'd have reacted? Did you turn down any medical procedures offered and if so which ones? I think when labor goes smoothly and relatively quickly, it often seems like the hospital is great. But if there's a variation that takes you off the average, sometimes things go downhill quickly.


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## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annie37* 
This is a good thread for me,as I *have* to have my baby in the hospital due to being high risk (placenta previa,still waiting to hear whether or not I have to have a CS) .
I have a question: Do most hospitals still decline to allow women to eat/drink during labor? I went on a hospital tour the other day & I heard mention of "ice chips for Mom"... and I'm thinking..." ahhh...so we will be sneaking the drinks THIS time,too??? " NO WAY am I going thru labor w/out a drink. I am liable to start THROWING the blankety-blank ice chips!!







:









I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, but wanted to say that you should talk to your doctor about this BEFORE you are in labour. I got official permission to eat and a "if they have a problem with that tell them to call me"

Granted, I didn't eat much, and didn't want to eat much, but I had permission! (I tend to be hypoglycemic, so this was an important issue for me!)


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## herbsgirl (May 1, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Quindin* 
I have never heard of a hospital that allowed food during labour - not even in Denmark where hospitals are so baby friendly. The max. I was allowed to have was a bit of red juice for the sugar kick, but that was it! I really doubt any hospital in US allows food. My last labour was the only one I had after eating well (I ordered ribs and fries) and it was AMAZING how wonderfully I was able to cope! I highly recommend it to anyone! My midwife at the birth center just said: "you don't send a farmer to the fields after ice chips!









ETA - On my hospital birth in the US, they lied, threatened and scared me in order to get me to do everything they wanted. It was amazing at how low they would go to get me to comply. Just one of the reasons why I am praying I will never put my feet in a hospital to give birth again!

My hospital allows food!!!!! I live in WIsconsin, USA. I told my doctor how hungry I was, and she agreed to let me eat. I had GD, so letting my sugar get too low was not an option either. I ate a tuna/egg sandwhich. I felt better too!

My hospital is very small, with only two rooms in L&D and I have to sign a paper at the beginning of the pregnancy stating that I know it is more risk to deliver at this hospital because it takes the Surgeon 20 minutes to get there in case of an emergency C section. Both times I gave birth there, I had wonderful expereinces for the most part. I was not forced into anything. The only complaint I have mostly is that the nursing assistant took my son and washed him up in the nursery, and I wanted him with me. Next time I will DEMAND that he not be taken from the room unless I or my husband is with the baby unless there is major emergency or something. He was with me most of the time after that.

I wrote out a birth plan, and they really honered it for the most part. I was able to spend most of the time on the floor with the birth ball, walking or in the shower, and I was able to bond with my baby and breastfeed for a while, they delayed the newborn procedures. I am now thinking about delayed cord cutting is a good idea too!


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## Romana (Mar 3, 2006)

eveblac. You might want to visit the Disappointing or Traumatic Birth Experiences tribe in FYT: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=656215

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hubris* 
Another thing to consider: some women are really compliant during labor/birth. I'm one of those women. I really wanted to stand/squat to give birth to my second child. I was standing and laboring effectively (from my point of view) next to the bed and starting to push uncoached when my water broke. Suddenly everybody was breaking down the bed, trying to get me into the bed (in the lithotomy position), wanting a fetal monitor on me. None of it was what I really wanted, but I went along with it. Laborland is like that for me. Yeah, I could have said NO, but I didn't. My DH even tried to tell them I didn't want to do it that way, and I told him it was ok and shushed him! The staff wasn't forcing anything on me, they were just doing things they way they're used to doing them, and from their point of view, I willingly went along with it.

Labor makes me a less assertive person. Yeah, I had options, and could have fought for them, but I didn't because I wasn't capable of doing so in that moment.

Wow. I could have written that. Every word of it, even to the part of dh trying to get them to stop and me saying it was fine . . . and I don't even _remember_ doing that.







This is what scares me most about birthing attended again - losing my autonomy. Losing my ability to assert myself, even in small ways. <gulp>


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## barefootpoetry (Jul 19, 2007)

*sigh* This thread dredged up so many rotten memories for me. Not once was I ever "asked" if such-and-such was okay, rather, they either ANNOUNCED it to me as it was being done, or used suggestible language to coerce me into doing it. "We're going to give you Pitocin to make your contractions more effecient." "We're breaking your water now." "Oh you've been in pain for soooo long, you should get an epidural to help you progress." When I did manage to assert myself, like suggesting that my bed be cranked up so I wouldn't be laying flat on my back, or asking for real water instead of stupid ice chips, they chided me as if I was being a naughty child. And then the grand finale when they decided my perfectly normal pelvis was "misshapen" and the word "C-section" was announced without a word to me about what I'd like to do. I just buried my face in my hands and cried while they scurried about prepping me. I wasn't even a person to them - I was just another womb on the assembly line in the baby factory.

And yes, I'd like to agree with all the women that as nice as it would be to stamp your foot and firmly state, "I DO NOT CONSENT!" every time a staff member comes toward you, it doesn't always work that way. I was ashamed of how vulnerable and suggestable I was during labor. I went in with plans for a natural birth, and wound up getting railroaded into every intervention in the book because I roll over like a meek puppy dog when I'm in labor. Hospital staffs KNOW this. They deliberately use language that takes advantage of your compromised state of being so you will comply with what THEY want. Just another one of thousands of reasons why this next one is being born at home!

No woman should have to fend off malicious people during her birth. That'd be like expecting to have intimate lovemaking with your husband while dozens of people barge into your house and knock on your bedroom door and walk in and out asking questions and pestering you the entire time.


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## accountclosed3 (Jun 13, 2006)

i don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but because the child is a citizen of the state, the hospital can become guardian ad litum, the parent determined to be incapacitated mentally (due to the fragile emotional/intellectual state of a birthing woman), and thereby the hospital administration can make the decisions.

a quick call to a judge makes this pretty easy. if a woman refuses too adamantly, if the "you'll kill/harm your baby" speech doesn't work, then the hospital admin can call the judge, and take over guardianship of the baby as a ward during the birth, call the shots, and then hand custody back over to the parents after the birth.

sometimes, i recommend taking a lawyer with you to the hospital, rather than a doula.


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annie37* 
I have a question: Do most hospitals still decline to allow women to eat/drink during labor?

I don't know about "most hospitals." Obviously, from this thread, you can see that some still do, some don't, and some encourage and facilitate eating and drinking during labor.

The hospital where I had my son (where I'll have this baby, unless it turns out that they really will transfer my care for turning down the GTT... have to double-check on that when the office reopens next week), they don't provide any food to the laboring mom, but they have no rules against it, and have a mini-fridge in the LDR rooms. I was there for 48 hours when we had our son (BEFORE his birth... another 72 afterward), and once, when I was asking DH to get me something to eat, the nurse said something like, "It might not be a good idea to eat right now, because if we do blah soon, you'll be more likely to throw up." I think "blah" was "get an epidural," but I'm not positive. I just said, "Thanks, I'm willing to risk that," and that was the end of it.

But there's another hospital 20 minutes away from that one that STILL has a no food or drink policy... to the point that, even if the doctor disagrees, he has to tiptoe around it and do his best not to "know" about it if one of his patients breaks that rule (or he could lose privileges).


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *notjustmamie* 
Just some other scenarios to consider.

There's also the "you're in the middle of a contraction and can't talk, so even though you clearly stated that you don't want a c-section, we're just going to slip in an IV/put in your catheter, wheel you down the hallway while you can't talk" phenomenon...


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## Fyrestorm (Feb 14, 2006)

Quote:

You might be right, but your baby could still be in foster care wearing disposable diapers with a stomach full of formula. Sometimes you have to be canny and avoid people who will cause that kind of trouble for you.

Kiley
This was the case for me...I refused everything during my HB transfer. They got court orders for everything and had the judge inform me that if I didn't consent to a section (completely unnecessary) that CPS would take custody of my DD as soon as she was born.

I think they are all regretting their lies now!! (several lost their jobs and/or positions and others just lost a whole lot of $$$)


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## Momma Aimee (Jul 8, 2003)

Quote:

There's also the "you're in the middle of a contraction and can't talk, so even though you clearly stated that you don't want a c-section, we're just going to slip in an IV/put in your catheter, wheel you down the hallway while you can't talk" phenomenon...

?????

I could talk even in transition and even in pushing --

????


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## mommyddeville (Nov 28, 2005)

When I had my daughter, the doctor entered the room right before DD was going to be born. He was the "on call" doctor, so I'd never met him. I told him that I wasn't ready to push, and that I didn't want an episiotomy. Well, all the nurses held my feet up and told me to push. I tried a few times, and nothing was happening. So the doctor was getting impatient, and got the scissors to do an episiotomy. I SCREAMED, "NO! I don't need an episiotomy." He did it anyway, and I could feel it. . . it was worse than delivering my daughter. Then, afterwards, he did stitches without any pain relief either.

After my daughter was born, a neonatologist came into the room and looked at my daughter and said, "She looks small. Let's take her upstairs (to the NICU) for monitoring. I again SCREAMED, "No. She's fine. You took my first baby up there and it took 5 days for you to let him out. Don't take her." I was hysterical. I'm crying even typing this 15 months later. They do NOT abide by your wishes at all. I'm pregnant again, and I'm not having another hospital birth. I've suffered from horrible PPD and physical difficulties both times, and I can't help but think they were caused by the stress and bad judgments of the hospital.


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momma Aimee* 
?????

I could talk even in transition and even in pushing --

????

So could my mom. But then, she had dysmenhorrea, and had had menstrual cramps worse than labor.

One of the usual criteria for determining how far along in labor a woman is is whether she can talk through a contraction. This test (like pretty much any test) is not valid for all women, but works for most women. IOW, most women who are well into active labor cannot talk during a contraction.


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## Astoria (May 27, 2004)

I had my first at a teaching hospital. I had midwives and they had separate policies (patients of the midwives were allowed food, showers, only periodic monitoring -- all other patients were not), so I thought I'd be fine. I was educated. Committed to natural childbirth. Not the whole story but some of the bad things:

-- at least 6 different people did internal exams when they were making the c-section decision. a doctor was teaching his student's what poor positioning and arrested descent and another of other things "feels" like. I didn't know I could say no or tell them all to leave. I had a c-section with a baby that never entered the birth canal but the vaginal pain lasted for 6 months.

-- I was given a spinal for the section that numbed me from the waist up. I told them I couldn't breath and they said, sure you can. Then I took a final breath, mentally believed I was dying, and blacked out. They quickly put me under general and put me on a ventilator. Suffocation nightmares for years.

-- When trying to come out of the anesthesia with no idea what had happened to me or my baby, I begged the nurse I saw doing paperwork near the end of my bed to hold my hand. I thought if I could hold something I could will myself to wake up. She said, "oh you're fine" and literally sneered at me. I lost consciousness again for another 45 minutes or so.

-- I begged everyone I saw from the moment I woke to let me see my baby. I didn't see him for 6 hours after waking, 9 after his birth. I spent all these hours begging everyone. A pediatrican came to see me to report on him and I screamed "I haven't even seen his face yet." He said, "oh, you will, he's cute." Even when I got to the same floor, out of recovery, all the paperwork filled out, begging to see him, the nurse did all her rounds before bringing him to me -- bathed, bottle fed, swaddled, and sound asleep.

-- A nurse told me that I was too pale skinned to breast feed. When I had trouble she repeatedly told me it would always hurt like hell cause of my thin, white skin.

-- Another nurse tried repeatedly to put him on the circumcision line and yelled threats to me when I refused about how filthy and disgusting that is and how he'd always resent me.

-- No one let me eat or encouraged me to stand up for days. I didn't know I needed to. I got weaker and more bloated. It was painful and horrible. The breastfeeding was astoundingly painful, I was starving and on morphine, and I caved to all sorts of weird interventions.

I suffered depression and had difficulty bonding after his birth.


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## Kitten (Jan 10, 2005)

Haven't had time to read the rest of this thread yet. We are having a homebirth but our transfer hospital has a waiver form that you sign on admission (and I don't think they typically send it to you ahead of time like the preadmission insurance forms). It says in the form that by signing this form you consent to _any treatment_ the hospital staff/ doctors feel is necessary. Not many women in labor are going to carefully read this sort of thing or think about what it might mean.

http://www.stmarysmadison.com/intern...df?openelement

However, it is perfectly legal to alter this sort of document to say that you do NOT consent to whatever treatment medical staff feel is necessary, and then legally they are *supposed* to get your permission for everything.


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## guest9921 (Nov 3, 2005)

ot- You rock kitten!

Birthing in the next...Oh, few days - and st.marys is my backup.
I didn't even know you could find this form online.


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## Kitten (Jan 10, 2005)

I love digging up all kinds of stuff. I should be working for an attorney or a P.I., LOL.


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

Quindin, I've birthed at two US hospitals, neither of which had any issue with what I ate or drank provided I wasn't anaesthetised.

To the OP - blanket refusal is a risky approach. Interventions can save lives, so who knows if you're refusing something that's needed? Far better to have a good sensible care provider who won't suggest anything unless its needed.

Someone upthread said you should have an empowered birth where you make all the decisions, but I can't check my baby's heart tones during transition, I can't recognize distress due to a compressed cord, and I can't fix my own shoulder dystocia. That's why I have a midwife who knows this stuff, who knows when she has to step in and get me up off the floor so she can see to untangle the cord or get me to push much harder and faster than I would othewise have done. Or even to cut an episiotomy, which rarely can make the difference of a few seconds to a baby who NEEDS those few seconds.


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## southernmommie (Jan 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
Quindin, I've birthed at two US hospitals, neither of which had any issue with what I ate or drank provided I wasn't anaesthetised.

To the OP - blanket refusal is a risky approach. Interventions can save lives, so who knows if you're refusing something that's needed? Far better to have a good sensible care provider who won't suggest anything unless its needed.

Someone upthread said you should have an empowered birth where you make all the decisions, but I can't check my baby's heart tones during transition, I can't recognize distress due to a compressed cord, and I can't fix my own shoulder dystocia. That's why I have a midwife who knows this stuff, who knows when she has to step in and get me up off the floor so she can see to untangle the cord or get me to push much harder and faster than I would othewise have done. Or even to cut an episiotomy, which rarely can make the difference of a few seconds to a baby who NEEDS those few seconds.

This is why the majority of the people on this board, or at least on the UC board, do this research. They know what they need to do in cases of emergency. However, an episiotomy is not an emergency. You don't need to check heart tones during transistion. The cord can be untangled by someone not licensed by the medical establishment also. So this isn't an emergency either. I think a little bit of research would be appropriate before this kind of response. That was the whole point of the comment of the "empowered birth". Empowered does NOT mean uneducated. Quite the opposite actually.


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## Seie (Jun 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Quindin* 
I have never heard of a hospital that allowed food during labour - not even in Denmark where hospitals are so baby friendly.

I have given birth in a Danish hospital twice. The first time I volunteered - the second time I transferred from a UC where my baby was malpositioned.

The first time we had brought tons of chocolate bisquits and coke and noone had any objections to that. The second time I asked for something to eat and my midwife suggested chocolate..

Unfortunately even in Denmark the hospitals are not nearly as babyfriendly as they used to be. We are low on staff - not enough midwifes- so everyone is working with too many women at the same time, resulting in us moving rapidly in the US-direction :cry C-sections are on the rise and so is the number of women who come through feeling traumatised. And as a result of that more women are requesting elective c-secs







Talk about a bad spiral of events.


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## Kitten (Jan 10, 2005)

Blanket anything is a risky approach, and that definitely includes blanket consent. Anything a care provider does is legally covered then, and they can then later say that you agreed to anything they wanted to do. Think about that, anything. That is scary.

It only takes a few seconds to get verbal consent and a good sensible care provider should not mind asking. If I am unable to give consent for whatever reason then my husband certainly can. I am not going to sign away my rights to make my own decisions.

And you don't know our backup hospital either. It isn't exactly progressive. So no, I'm not going to sign a piece of paper handing over my rights. I don't think that the OBs will be out to get me or that OBs are evil people. But their best interests and my best interests are not necessarily going to be one and the same.


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## sweetsensation (May 27, 2006)

I couldn't read through all the posts before replying here so pardon me if I repeat anything that has already been said.........
My first two were born at home, exactly how I wanted. But my third was born in a birth care center affiliated with a hospital. I am a very strong and opinionated person and know exactly what I want. Even though we had an OB who was completely hands-off and on board with everything I wanted and didn't want, absolutely NO intervention whatsover and allowance to do whatever I wanted (ie: dim lights, walk around, eat and drink at my leisure, birth in whatever position I want) it did not happen that way at all. I didn't even have any internal exams at all and really didn't want any when I got to the BC, but I gave in to ONE. They have a way of making you feel incompetent and not know what your body is doing (and I am VERY in tune with my body). I had a doula and my mom and dh, but my doc didn't show up right away because the nurses did not believe that I was so far along (they go off of dilation apparently, and less than 20 minutes before I crowned I was at 5 cm). Then the nurses called some intern in from the hall to assist, although my birth plan specifically opposes this. She would not allow me to birth in the position I wanted and forced me into a one of those cheap recliners while the baby's head was crowning. I ended up flat on my back.

To make a long horrific story short, the birth was extremely traumatizing to me and my dd. the control was completly taken away from me after the baby was born too.
Afterward, I know I could have told the intern to get out, I could have been more forceful and aggressive. The thruth is, though, that most of us are just concentrating on birthing that baby and focused inward. We expect those around us to take care of us but instead they take advantage of our vulnerability. I had read and heard all about these things happening, but I really did not believe they would happen to me.
Just know that no matter how well you plan and no matter how you want to birth, things don't always work out that way. Complications may arise and those around you just might decide to do things _their way. This may be okay for you, but it may not. My experience may not be as horrible as compared to so many that I have heard. However, it was very traumatic to me and I can totally tell a differnce in my dd compared to my other two.
This experience is definately the #1 reason I am having a UC this time around and will never, never willingly go back there or to a hospital to have a baby!_


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## barefootpoetry (Jul 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sweetsensation* 
The thruth is, though, that most of us are just concentrating on birthing that baby and focused inward. We expect those around us to take care of us but instead they take advantage of our vulnerability.

I agree wholeheartedly with that. Maybe that's why so many laboring women wind up submitting to things they never wanted - they are in a mental place where they believe the people around them have their best interest at heart, so the crazy crap they suggest starts to sound like a good idea. Even if we KNOW that the hospital staff isn't on our side, I guess it's hard to erase the eons of birthing surrounded and supported by loved ones. We automatically go for that tribal feeling, even if it isn't there.


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## Quindin (Aug 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Inca* 
I have given birth in a Danish hospital twice. The first time I volunteered - the second time I transferred from a UC where my baby was malpositioned.

I gave birth in Herlev and Glostrup 9 and 8 years ago.
In Herlev they broke my water + added a little Pitocin in an IV in the end to speed things up -- I was not really asked whether I wanted either interventions. Luckily, those were not bad in the end...

In Glostrup I had a totally intervention free birth but it was at the midwife clinic within the hospital, so maybe that's why. Even there though, I was only allowed Roed Saft...









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Inca* 
Unfortunately even in Denmark the hospitals are not nearly as babyfriendly as they used to be. We are low on staff - not enough midwifes- so everyone is working with too many women at the same time, resulting in us moving rapidly in the US-direction :cry C-sections are on the rise and so is the number of women who come through feeling traumatised. And as a result of that more women are requesting elective c-secs







Talk about a bad spiral of events.

I have been reading about this new trend ! Really sad


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## Magali (Jun 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
It is very difficult to argue with a determined nurse/doctor when you are in the middle of transition, unfortunately.









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