# Grandparents taking your child to church if you are not religious?



## snoopy5386 (May 6, 2005)

This weekend for the first time MIL and SFIL watched DD so we could go away overnight - we left Saturday morning and came back Sunday afternoon. They came and stayed with DD at our home (about 3 hours from theirs). MIL and SFIL are very religious and very involved in their church, DH and I are not religious at all - we don't believe in any organized religion.
Since they were staying at our home far away from their church it hadn't occurred to me that they might take her to church on Sunday morning. When I talked to them Saturday night they mentioned getting together with some nearby relatives the next morning. It didn't occur to me until Sunday morning that they'd be going to church with these relatives and bringing DD with them.
MIL never mentioned church - either before or afterward. When I asked DD what she did that morning she said we went to so and so's house, we went to church and then we went to breakfast - that is how I found out they went.

I'm still not sure how I feel about this.....we in general have a great relationship with them and we have managed to go for years without our differing religious beliefs being a problem....I knew having kids would bring things up and I'm really not sure how to deal with this issue.
Looking for insight.


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## Mountaingirl79 (Jul 12, 2008)

i have no problem with my son's grandma taking him/them to church for Mass when they are with her. It is valuable time with grandma and they are being exposed to something other than what they know at home. They know also, that not everyone is Catholic, so it is just a new experience and bonding time for them right now.

My oldest son loves it, but my younger one does not and usually chooses to stay with whatever non- practicing adult is in the house at the time.









I just see it as exposure to different things.


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## a-sorta-fairytale (Mar 29, 2005)

I would be a bit irritated that they hadn't asked me first. That said, we are not the same religion as my IL's or my dad but i told them both they could take my kids to church. IL's have never taken me up on it







they have taken my kids bowling like twice for an hour and that is it.

My dad on the other hand is really close with my kids. they sleep over 1-3 times a month and usually it is on saturday so he has church sunday. He has taken dd a few times. She usually doesnt like it and finds it boring but if she wants to sleep over on a sat she knows that she might be going to church. sometimes she likes going because sometimes they have a big breakfast afterward or one of her cousins will be there. I dont have an issue with it because dd is very bright and understands that diff people believe diff things and grandpa believes something diff then us. If he sneakily took her i would be angry with him. It is the fact that he is open with us about it that makes me fine with it.


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

If you don't want your child to go to church, that is your right. But, you may need to find new sitters. Because you should not expect them not to attend their church, if it is that important to them, just because your child is there.

I am not saying you would expect that, but wanted to put it out there, just in case.

They may not have even thought that it would be a huge deal, because you know that they go to church.


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## Hedgehog Mtn (Jan 14, 2008)

I feel you mama. If I asked my mom to babysit over a Sunday I guess (never having thought about it till your post) that she would go to our local church of her denomination. She always looked for one on vacation etc so spending a weekend at my house would be no different I guess. I'm not sure I'd be thrilled but I wouldn't feel okay asking her to skip if she was watching my kids. Babysitting for a weekend would be awesome if she could do it. I don't think she could comprehend why it wouldn't be okay with us....if I told her it was offensive I'm sure she would not ignore me and take them anyways but I really don't think she would understand.


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## new2this (Feb 11, 2010)

For me I wouldn't be bothered by it because I think it is a great teaching tool to expose kids to that sorts of things even if it would be against what I believe because I want my kids to grow up to eventually make their own choice so being exposed to it wouldn't bother me.

ETA: I think since you generally have a good relationship with them it could be like since it never occured to you that they would go maybe it didn't occur to your MIL that you would generally mind and something worth asking permission for.


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## annethcz (Apr 1, 2004)

My parents take my kids to church when the kids spend the weekend with their grandparents. It doesn't bother me. I am a former Christian, and not terribly fond of organized religion. That said, I respect my parents' beliefs. I also think that it's generally a good thing for my kids to be exposed to religion on an occasional basis. It will allow them to make a better informed decision regarding religion as they grow up.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Yeah, my parents snuck both my kids off to church when I had asked them not to.







I had to limit overnights after that.









I'm not comfortable with the church I grew up in... it is very brain-washy and cult-ish. I'm thrilled to have broken away from the flock.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snoopy5386* 
MIL never mentioned church - either before or afterward.

That's seriously icky.

We tried to be cool about the whole "different people believe different things" thing, but my parents used every visit and gift opportunity to try to evangelize my kids. I finally talked to them and pulled the plug on it. It was very uncomfortable, but made every thing much simplier.

I'm sure in some families being mellow would work, but not with my parents. They don't understand mutual respect or a middle ground, so we had to draw a firm boundary.


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## Bellabaz (Feb 27, 2008)

I would be angry they didn't ask first and they seemed to have purposely avoidded telling you. However if it was discussed before hand, it probably wouldn't bother me very much.

I am the odd one out in our family. Dh and fam and most of my fam are Catholic (although my fam doesn't really practice and dh doesn't really either). I was raised Catholic but no longer believe in the church. I personally don't care for organized religions at all. If my dd were to spend the weekend at ILs it is possible they would take her to mass. I think it could be a good opportunity to expose her to the faith a lot of her family members practice and be explain to her that its not the only thing out there and that difference people believe different things or show thier belef in different ways.


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## AllisonR (May 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bellabaz* 
I would be angry they didn't ask first and they seemed to have purposely avoidded telling you. However if it was discussed before hand, it probably wouldn't bother me very much.

This. In this case, I don't think the issue is church at all. It could have been the ice cream parlor or Disneyland. The issue is that they were trying to pull one over on you, and they got "caught" by your DD who told where she had been. if I had to guess, if you flat out asked them, did you take her to church, they would have said yes. But they were not going to say it themselves. To forget to tell you they had a piece of chocolate is a simple oversight. To "forget" to tell you they went to church, knowing clearly you do not go to church, that is not "forgetful." That is dishonest.

If it was me, I would feel hurt. And I would tell my folks that.

For the record, my parents are Roman Catholic. DH and I are athiests. If they were taking DS and DD over a weekend, and wanted to go to church, they would let us know, beforehand. If they had honestly forgot to mention it, they would either not take them, or take them and then let DH and I know when we got back. That's just simple honest and respect for one another. And I would be fine with either scenario. I would not love it, but I would accept it. Their home, their time, I am grateful they are loving grandparents who can watch my kids while I have a break, so a little church isn't going to hurt my kids.


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## Ldavis24 (Feb 19, 2009)

I don't know which would annoy me more. The fact that they didn't mention it at all or even ask. Or the fact that my DD was brought to church in the first place.

I am not going to stop DD from going to church when she is older but there is no chance she will be going with me or me letting her go with anyone until she asks me herself to go. I do want her to learn about other religions because it is important to know all you can and if she wants to be any one thing that is her decision when she is old enough to understand it a bit. I am not interested in her stepping foot in a church though as there are other ways to learn about organized religion. I guess I just have a real disdain for organized religion and to me there are far more important things for her to learn about. That said I would never ever be mad at her for joining a church or particular religion, much of my family is very catholic and it certainly doesn't impact how much I love them.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Unless this is something that's a regular event, I really wouldn't sweat it. I don't think they were "pull one over" on you - it sounds as though it didn't occur to you that they'd be going to Church, and it didn't occur to them that you wouldn't think they would.

Was the child harmed, upset, confused, etc? Or was she okay with it, especially spending time with her grandparents? Then I wouldn't be too concerned or upset. Personally.


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

I would be concerned that they aren't talking frankly about how your child spent time with them. It doesn't bode well for a future honest relationship between grandparents-parents-children. You'll always wonder what they might allow your children to do that you wouldn't favour.

I would explain to them that you would like to be informed fully and completely about their plans and about any changes to plans.

As for the church-going itself - that's a personal matter. You'll have to decide for yourself whether you object. I wouldn't. It's an important part of the grandparents' life. Thus, I think their grandchildren should understand it and make some effort to experience it, even if they don't hold the same beliefs. For that reason, I would attend a few times myself with them, and I wouldn't object if they wanted to go when I couldn't. If you object, though, you are entitled to ask the grandparents to keep your child out of church. I don't think you can ask them to take care of your child on Sundays though, if that is their regular day for religious attendance.


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## wemoon (Aug 31, 2002)

This wouldn't be a big deal for me. My kids hate church, so they would probably complain the whole time. We've only gone for marriages, baptisms, and funerals. I think it is good that they have an idea of what church is, so that when people ask why they don't go they can formulate some sort of answer. Right now they tell people... Because it is boring!


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## possum (Nov 23, 2004)

I wouldn't feel comfortable with my young child being taken to an evangelical soul-winning type of church AT ALL. IME, they are always looking for recruits, and the younger the better. I would definitely feel comfortable with my young child going to a service and seeing other people worship as long as they didn't have any need for my child to worship too. In general I think I'd feel comfortable with my son observing a Christian high church service or going to a number of non-Christian services.
I wouldn't feel comfortable with deceit for any reason, but I'm not sure that is what happened in your case. My ILs are wonderful people who might very well do some religious thing without thinking much of it and not mention it. They just see god as a real part of their lives and tend not be be self-conscious about their religion.
Unless you have explicitly forbidden church visits or were purposely misled, I wouldn't sweat it once. But I would address it for the future.

Melinda


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## Joyster (Oct 26, 2007)

I might be on the side to give them the benefit of the doubt. If your DD is old enough to tell you, they probably weren't thinking of pulling a fast one on you. Are they aware of how much you don't want her exposed to their religion? Is it something you expressed explicitly with them? Were they aware that they were going to make the service, being in a different area?

I'm asking these questions, not to challenge you, but help you ascertain whether or not they really had some crummy motives behind it. If you feel they have, or if they still really want to go to church on Sunday's even if they have your DD and you're against that, you might have to find some new sitters for overnight weekends.









For me, I wouldn't feel too upset, I believe religion starts at home, and though we do go to church (or try) weekly, I feel that the most important lessons they get are from us. But then again, our church isn't really big on the whole uber-indoctrination stuff.


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## PoppyMama (Jul 1, 2004)

I'm not seeing any sneakiness here just normal routine that no one considered. My grandmother went to church away from home too and took us. My dad had left christianity completely but my going with her was never a problem.


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## Grace and Granola (Oct 15, 2005)

Let me preface by saying that I'm a church-goer...but I hope that my perspective will help you









First of all, as far as some people thinking it's sneaky for them not to have mentioned church before or after....don't you know that they go to church every sunday? I would assume that it would be a given unless you specifically told them not to take the kids to church. When you go to church EVERY sunday, it's just part of your life, not a big event that you talk so much about...it's just what you do! I would think that it would be assumed they were going since you know they go every sunday.

As far as your feelings about them going....Even though we go to church, my MIL goes to a different church, and when the kids spend a night there, she is SO excited to take them to her church. She is overjoyed to "show off" her grandkids to her friends and have them be a part of her life in that way. I think it's awesome how proud she is of them.

Also, if you're worried about the "religion" of it all. Your dd will learn far more about God from your ILs, themselves, than from the church. KWIM? They will learn by what ILs tell her over the years, not from singing some songs and doing a craft at an hour in Sunday school. At least at our church, the kids are just doing fun stuff while the adults are in church!

If your DD didn't like going or was scared or something, then I would definitely say something. But if she doesn't mind and your ILs get some joy out of it, I don't see the harm. HTH


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## snarky (Nov 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TinkerBelle* 
If you don't want your child to go to church, that is your right. But, you may need to find new sitters. Because you should not expect them not to attend their church, if it is that important to them, just because your child is there.

I am not saying you would expect that, but wanted to put it out there, just in case.

They may not have even thought that it would be a huge deal, because you know that they go to church.











My inlaws take my daughter to church as well when she is staying with them. I am fine with this. It is unfair to expect my inlaws not to attend church because they have my daughter. I didn't see any malice in this either. To some people going to church is like breathing and it is almost a routine non-event in their day (my mother-in-law goes to daily mass).

Now I am not religious so I find my daughter's understanding of Jesus when she comes back from mass kind of amusing. When she was two, we'd read "There's an Alligator Under My Bed", she'd point to the mom in that book (who had long hair and a robe) and said "Jesus!"







You'll have plenty of time to talk to her about what she is and isn't learning (pro tip: not much if she's not attending regularly). Either let it go or find a new sitter.


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## That Is Nice (Jul 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snoopy5386* 
Since they were staying at our home far away from their church it hadn't occurred to me that they might take her to church on Sunday morning. When I talked to them Saturday night they mentioned getting together with some nearby relatives the next morning. It didn't occur to me until Sunday morning that they'd be going to church with these relatives and bringing DD with them.
MIL never mentioned church - either before or afterward. When I asked DD what she did that morning she said we went to so and so's house, we went to church and then we went to breakfast - that is how I found out they went.

Wow, yes, I would be upset, in this case. When I first read your post, I was thinking, oh, if they were babysitting at their house, and church on Sunday is their usual routine, I wouldn't mind so much.

But they were babysitting at your house? And they didn't mention they would be taking your daughter to church?

I'd be upset. It sounds like they deliberately didn't tell you in advance.

I have had boundary issues like that with my inlaws, a bit. They do things I've explained to them are counter to my/our parenting values. They don't want to have to think any differently than how they parented.

Smoking is the other issue with them around the grandchildren. Again, they don't see it as an issue for them. But their house smells strongly of smoke, and it's just not good to have grandkids there. And then they wonder why the grandkids can't stay over night or for a week or something.


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## GoestoShow (Jul 15, 2009)

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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

It really would depend for me on what you think their intentions are.

For example, I would not think twice if my mom brought my kids to her church. She's Catholic; DH and I are Unitarian-Universalist. I say that because I know she knows and respects my own religious choices, and that she doesn't have any kind of agenda in bringing my kids to her church. If she happened to be going, and they happened to be there, they'd go, and she'd be thrilled to show them off to friends and family, but that's all it would be.

On the other hand, my Dad, who's a Baptist, would never ever be allowed to take my kids to church with him. I say this because I KNOW for sure that he'd be doing it with an agenda-- he's crossed boundaries before on religious issues. He believes and is willing to say to my face that my decisions about my kids' religious upbringing are "putting their immortal souls in peril." If my kids went to his church, they'd be subject to pressure and manipulation that they're not mature enough to handle. I already have to screen gifts, for example, because he keeps bringing them stuff like overtly religious videos, and last summer he registered them for vacation bible school without asking me first.

It's nothing to do with denomination, either. If my dad just wanted to bring them to his church because he wanted his friends to meet them, and for them to see where he goes on Sundays, I'd be perfectly willing to allow it. It's the issue of respect for my choices and the person's intentions that would matter to me.


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

I guess I sort of think it's up to you to have thought this through and discussed it with them. Since you didn't, I would let it slide.

I'm an atheist and I would not be OK with my kids' Catholic grandparents taking them to their church, ever. But I would consider it my responsibility to make that clear. I view people babysitting my kids as a favor to me, not a favor to them. So, if the GP weren't OK with making alternate church arrangements, I'd find a different babysitter.


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

Uhm, I find the assumptions of sneakiness kind of odd. If your parents in law got up every morning and took a mile long walk and brought your kid with them would you consider that sneaky if they just did it without bringing it up? If it was a normal part of their routine and they think nothing of it I would assume it's the same thing for church. It probably would never occur to them that they *shouldn't* go while babysitting.

I think that if you have an issue with your kid going to church you should bring it up gently. If you have a good relationship it's not necessary to go stepping on toes. I don't think they did anything wrong. They included your kid in their life. Isn't that what grandparents are supposed to do? If you don't like their life and you don't want your kid involved in their life you need to say that and not assume that they will know you hate their life.

Before folks jump on me and say that I'm defending them because I'm religious--I'm not. I haven't been in a church for anything other than a wedding in 15 years. But I respect the fact that most people of faith are doing the best they can with what they have and they mean well. If you look for the bad in people, you will surely find it.


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rightkindofme* 
Uhm, I find the assumptions of sneakiness kind of odd. If your parents in law got up every morning and took a mile long walk and brought your kid with them would you consider that sneaky if they just did it without bringing it up? *If it was a normal part of their routine and they think nothing of it I would assume it's the same thing for church. It probably would never occur to them that they *shouldn't* go while babysitting.*

I think that if you have an issue with your kid going to church you should bring it up gently. If you have a good relationship it's not necessary to go stepping on toes. I don't think they did anything wrong. *They included your kid in their life. Isn't that what grandparents are supposed to do?* If you don't like their life and you don't want your kid involved in their life you need to say that and not assume that they will know you hate their life.

Before folks jump on me and say that I'm defending them because I'm religious--I'm not. I haven't been in a church for anything other than a wedding in 15 years. *But I respect the fact that most people of faith are doing the best they can with what they have and they mean well.* If you look for the bad in people, you will surely find it.


I agree with you. It disturbs me that some people are jumping to the conclusion that the grandparents were being sneaky or have some hidden agenda about taking their grandkids to church.

I mean, hey, if they constantly undermine you and are vocal about doing whatever they want with your kids, okay, then I can see being upset. Otherwise, it seems to me that they are merely living their life and including the grandkids in that life.


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## leighi123 (Nov 14, 2007)

I only have a problem with it if the intent is to push the religion on my ds.

My mom offered to take ds to church the other day, b/c they have a kids program with crafts/games/stories, which sounded like fun (its at 9am though and ds sleeps in!)

I wouldnt have a problem with her taking him once in a while, just for a different experence. If it was every week, then I wouldnt want him to go, because I dont really want him TOO involved.

We do go to church events, b/c the one right by our house is big on the kids stuff, so they have events for halloween, easter and all that, but they are not religious based, just happened to be sponsored by the church.
Ds also has a part in a play that the church is doing!


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rightkindofme* 
Uhm, I find the assumptions of sneakiness kind of odd.


Oh, I'm not sure about that. It was the first time the grandparents watched the child. It was the first time the child had been to church. I would expect either of these events to generate a minute-by-minute, blow-by-blow re-telling from proud grannie and grandpa about what they did and how things went. Yet they said nothing:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snoopy5386* 
This weekend for the first time MIL and SFIL watched DD so we could go away overnight -

When I talked to them Saturday night they mentioned getting together with some nearby relatives the next morning.

MIL never mentioned church - either before or afterward..


If the grandparents mentioned casually that they had gone to church and the child liked it or was well-behaved or even was a little terror, then I'd be more inclined to think it was just part of their routine. The fact that they said nothing about a fair part of their day together speaks volumes.

The OP will have to judge whether the grandparents are entirely innocent in intentions and in disclosure. If they have told her all about the other events of the weekend, and chose to say nothing about church, I'd be a little suspicious.

And even if they are entirely innocent, I would still have a discussion explaining that I'd like to know details about their plans and activities when they watch my children.


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## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)

It definitely comes across as sneaky to me. And I really wouldn't be okay with it. But, the few people who watch my children already know this, so it wouldn't be an issue for me.

There are churches that preach that their way is the only way. There are churches that preach intolerance of others. There are churches that preach about hell and damnation. There are churches that preach hatred. And most churches are going to preach about the existence of a supernatural being. I don't want my children being taught this stuff until they're old enough to know their own minds, and have been taught to adequately filter messages from adults. Some of these messages can be incredibly harmful to children, and it's my responsibility to protect my kids from those ideas until they can properly process them. I am teaching my children about different religions. Teaching them about religions from an intellectual and historical point of view, and teaching them that certain religions are truth and that the only way to be a good person is to follow their rules, are totally different things. There will be a point at which my children will be permitted to go to different houses of worship. The only one that I'd be okay with at this point in their developments might be a Unitarian Universalist church because of the way they approach differing belief systems.


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## ginapueblo (Mar 2, 2008)

While church wasn't the issue for our family (crap food was), I have learned that it is worth letting go of your own agenda and letting your children have a relationship that is not controlled by you with their grandparents. You benefit by getting away time, the grandparents benefit by doting on their grandbabies, and the children benefit by learning to adapt to different rules and routines AND by being "spoiled" by the grandparents. I was seriously wound up about these things and it has taken me over a decade to chill, but I am so much happier turning them over and letting them have their own relationships on their own terms.

If you feel very strongly about them not attending church, then it's not fair to ask the grandparents to modify their routine. Which means weekends will be a challenge.

I totally get that when you choose to parent conscientiously it's hard to let go, but in the end I have found life is better when you do.

Hugs,
Gina--mom to 12, 9, and 6 year old boys


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## cristeen (Jan 20, 2007)

Honestly, I'm with some of the pp... I'd be bothered more by the fact that they felt they needed to hide it from you than that they had done it.

I'm not religious at all, and my family will not be allowed to take my child to church for one major reason. They'd be evangelizing. I was raised in several different churches, so have no problem teaching my child about them, and if I could trust my family to just share the experience, that would be one thing, but having my child told he's going to he!! because he doesn't share grandma's beliefs is something completely different.

Honestly, I'd have your DH ask them why they felt the need to hide it and go from there.


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## That Is Nice (Jul 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ginapueblo* 
While church wasn't the issue for our family (crap food was), I have learned that it is worth letting go of your own agenda and letting your children have a relationship that is not controlled by you with their grandparents. You benefit by getting away time, the grandparents benefit by doting on their grandbabies, and the children benefit by learning to adapt to different rules and routines AND by being "spoiled" by the grandparents. I was seriously wound up about these things and it has taken me over a decade to chill, but I am so much happier turning them over and letting them have their own relationships on their own terms.

If you feel very strongly about them not attending church, then it's not fair to ask the grandparents to modify their routine. Which means weekends will be a challenge.

I totally get that when you choose to parent conscientiously it's hard to let go, but in the end I have found life is better when you do.

Hugs,
Gina--mom to 12, 9, and 6 year old boys

Yes and no. I agree to an extent. It is worth letting go, even if you are right and the grandparents wrong IF what they are doing isn't harmful and if you feel confident they will be honest about what they do with your children.

If they are hiding something, maybe they hide other things, right? If they are sneaky and go behind your back about one thing, then perhaps they do about other things.

For me, the food issue is sort of important. We don't adhere to a 100% healthy diet, but 99.9% of the time we do. I'm not so rigid that I won't let my child have candy, etc, but I try to make good choices.

My inlaws really aren't into health or knowledgable about health. And we've had the crap food issue too.

The reason I think that it sort of is a big deal is that now my child has a taste for the fatty, highly seasoned foods such as chicken nuggets. I'm not ever going to make or serve my child chicken nuggets, and certainly not the type my inlaws would get. No way. But here I am with a kid who already doesn't like vegetables on his own for his age, and now sees commercials on tv for KFC and says "mmm...that looks good."

I never thought I'd be the parent of a toddler who said that because I NEVER purchase KFC...yet values do seep in when crap food is presented somewhere else. And let's face it, to a toddler, crap food usually tastes pretty good.

My other issue is cigarette smoke, and I just don't really feel like compromising too much about cigarette smoke, even second hand and third hand smoke.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Don't have any grandkids yet, but Sundays we are obligated to attend mass so if I'm babysitting the kids are going to. Although I'm a very upfront person so I would have made it clear to my daughter that I'd be taking them. However, since she knows we are obligated to go I'm sure she would already know that of course they would be going with.


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## gcgirl (Apr 3, 2007)

I don't see anything wrong with it unless you instruct them not to and they do anyway.

I was raised atheist, but my mom took me to church and let me go with friends when I wanted. I'm still an atheist, BTW.

After reading all the posts, I agree it was wrong for them not to even mention it. But it could just be a misunderstanding. Don't freak out yet - just ask them about it.


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## Jaesun's Dad (Feb 19, 2010)

This would be a very big deal, more so to my partner/son's mom than it would to me but I'd be upset myself if I wasn't told of the plan in advance. That said, I know that if I left my son with my father or my mother, or with his grandparents on his mom's side that church is part of their routine and I would pretty much expect he would be going with them to church as they're going to church anyway.

So there's one advantage to living 3,000 miles away from any grandparent ... one of the few. We really could use their help (time) otherwise if they were closer.


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## JollyGG (Oct 1, 2008)

I'm in the party who is failing to see any sneaking around. I do attend church and when you are someone who goes to church every Sunday it's not something that I would bring up or feel a need to mention going. Especially if there were other fun and more exciting things to say about my day. If I was going to tell anyone about a morning similar to the ones the grandparents did I probably would have talked about how good it was to see the relatives, how well their kids and the grandkids got along, what all the new gossip from that branch of the family was. Church was really probably (to the grandparents) the least newsworthy part of the day. Honestly most of the time Services are pretty uneventful. I wouldn't assume they were hiding anything but more that they really didn't consider it that interesting.

In your post you say that they said that they were seeing family the next day. As an afterthought you realized that they went to church with this family. Perhaps they assumed that Church was a given or that you would know that as both groups of your family share a religion that a Sunday morning gather implied church and a meal. Honestly, my mother's family is very religious and a Sunday morning gather would mean that you meet at church and go from there and most members of my family would assume you knew that.


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## Purple*Lotus (Nov 1, 2007)

Maybe I have been to the wrong churches, but I have been to several different denominations around here and none of them scare the children with damnation talk. However, in my area it is really uncommon for children to be in the actual service. Normally there is Children's Church *which I have taught so I might be biased about it* that includes a craft and just talking about being loving and a good person. Nothing scary.

It was also the norm growing up that even if my Grandparents were out of town, they always attended a church. My parents were not chuchgoers, but I always went when I was with my Grandparents. I don't think it influenced me one way or the other. I did not start attending church of my own will until I was in my 20s.

I would not assume the worst in the OPs situation. Unless the kids tell you that they were scared of what happened while they were there. It would not be my hill to die on, so to speak


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## snoopy5386 (May 6, 2005)

OP here - thanks everyone for your opinions I appreciate them all. Let me clarify some things:
This was not the first time the GPs had watched DD, it was the 1st time that they watched her for more than a few hours - the first overnight.
The GPs come here to visit for the weekend between 6-8 weekends a year, we also usually vacation with them at least once a year as well. As a general rule they don't seek out a church to attend when they are visiting - they've only done it a couple of times and those were major religious days - palm Sunday, Christmas Eve, etc. so I really didn't expect them to take her.
The relatives they visited with were distant cousins whom they see when they visit here maybe once or twice a year. We've met them for breakfast before either on a Saturday or a Sunday after church - which is another reason it didn't occur to me that they'd take her to church.
When I spoke to MIL Saturday night she said they'd be going to the cousins house around 10 the next morning - she never mentioned church. The next morning it occurred to me that 10 am is really early for the cousins church to be over - that is when I realized they were probably taking DD to church. I have no idea what church they went to or what "kind" of church it was.
If they were watching DD at their house over a Sunday morning I would fully expect them to take her along to their church with them - which is one of the reasons we haven't put ourselves in that situation.
When we stay at the GPs house they go to church every Sunday - we do not, we stay at their house and then meet them for breakfast afterward. Although we've never sat down and openly discussed it, I'm pretty sure they get that we don't believe - we don't attend any religious ceremonies, didn't have a religious wedding, don't teach DD about Jesus, etc. In the past MIL has asked if it was ok to get DD a Noah's Ark playset - we told her no, we weren't really comfortable with that. At their house we say grace before meals, out of respect for them. We don't do it when they visit us in our home.
DD and I did attend church with them once - I was staying there with DD but without DH and SFIL asked me to go with them, I felt pressured to go so I said yes. DD was under 2 at the time so I knew it wouldn't really influence her in any way.
DH is even more anti-church than me, so I need to sit down and talk with him about how we want to approach this issue in the future. In general I'm not against the idea of her going and being exposed to church - I think it is good for her to be exposed to different things, but I'd prefer her to be older - maybe 6 or 8?
These GPs are pretty much the only folks we trust to watch our kids overnight so if we ever want to go away again we need to come up with a compromise/solution.
I fully trust MIL and SFIL to take care of DD, I know they would never behave in a malicious or underhanded way with her/us. BUT I do think it is weird that they never mentioned church to us.....I'm not really sure why.
As I said, they are very religious but not in a proselytizing type of way - they are very involved in their church - they just returned from a mission trip to South America, they've gone on mission trips before, their house is filled with christian pillows, magnets, wall hangings, etc. MIL sings in the choir, they run certain outreach programs, etc. Very involved, but they don't push it on us, it is just a huge part of their life. Sometimes they choose their church over family which makes me kind of sad...for instance DD's bday this year falls the day before Easter. They won't be coming to celebrate with us because they feel going to their church for Sunrise service then again for regular service is more important. It will be the 1st year they've missed her birthday. I'm truly amazed that we've managed to go this far in our relationship with them without religion becoming an issue. I always knew having kids would bring issues up and now I'm trying to figure out how to deal with them.
Keep the ideas coming!


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## Xavismom (Dec 22, 2009)

I dont care what the intention was, I would be furious. DH & I are strongly against exposing children to religion, period, and my mom knows that. If she went against that on purpose for any reason, we would be having one serious conversation!


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## Purple*Lotus (Nov 1, 2007)

OP- if you ever have them babysit on a Sunday morning again, or on a religious holiday- I would just say "Hey we are not really comfortable with our DC going to church. I understand if you can't watch her because of church, just let me know and I will make alternative arrangements", something like that.


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## Cascadian (Jan 28, 2009)

Depends on the church/temple/synagogue, and the ideology.

I'm ok with most places that don't mirror my belief system, as they're normally great community events to socialize, but the ones that prostlytize down your throat, using fear, guilt and retribution...nuh uh. I wouldn't be ok with that.


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## Grace and Granola (Oct 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snoopy5386* 
OP here - thanks everyone for your opinions I appreciate them all. Let me clarify some things:
This was not the first time the GPs had watched DD, it was the 1st time that they watched her for more than a few hours - the first overnight.
The GPs come here to visit for the weekend between 6-8 weekends a year, we also usually vacation with them at least once a year as well. As a general rule they don't seek out a church to attend when they are visiting - they've only done it a couple of times and those were major religious days - palm Sunday, Christmas Eve, etc. so I really didn't expect them to take her.
The relatives they visited with were distant cousins whom they see when they visit here maybe once or twice a year. We've met them for breakfast before either on a Saturday or a Sunday after church - which is another reason it didn't occur to me that they'd take her to church.
When I spoke to MIL Saturday night she said they'd be going to the cousins house around 10 the next morning - she never mentioned church. The next morning it occurred to me that 10 am is really early for the cousins church to be over - that is when I realized they were probably taking DD to church. I have no idea what church they went to or what "kind" of church it was.
If they were watching DD at their house over a Sunday morning I would fully expect them to take her along to their church with them - which is one of the reasons we haven't put ourselves in that situation.
When we stay at the GPs house they go to church every Sunday - we do not, we stay at their house and then meet them for breakfast afterward. Although we've never sat down and openly discussed it, I'm pretty sure they get that we don't believe - we don't attend any religious ceremonies, didn't have a religious wedding, don't teach DD about Jesus, etc. In the past MIL has asked if it was ok to get DD a Noah's Ark playset - we told her no, we weren't really comfortable with that. At their house we say grace before meals, out of respect for them. We don't do it when they visit us in our home.
DD and I did attend church with them once - I was staying there with DD but without DH and SFIL asked me to go with them, I felt pressured to go so I said yes. DD was under 2 at the time so I knew it wouldn't really influence her in any way.
DH is even more anti-church than me, so I need to sit down and talk with him about how we want to approach this issue in the future. In general I'm not against the idea of her going and being exposed to church - I think it is good for her to be exposed to different things, but I'd prefer her to be older - maybe 6 or 8?
These GPs are pretty much the only folks we trust to watch our kids overnight so if we ever want to go away again we need to come up with a compromise/solution.
I fully trust MIL and SFIL to take care of DD, I know they would never behave in a malicious or underhanded way with her/us. BUT I do think it is weird that they never mentioned church to us.....I'm not really sure why.
As I said, they are very religious but not in a proselytizing type of way - they are very involved in their church - they just returned from a mission trip to South America, they've gone on mission trips before, their house is filled with christian pillows, magnets, wall hangings, etc. MIL sings in the choir, they run certain outreach programs, etc. Very involved, but they don't push it on us, it is just a huge part of their life. Sometimes they choose their church over family which makes me kind of sad...for instance DD's bday this year falls the day before Easter. They won't be coming to celebrate with us because they feel going to their church for Sunrise service then again for regular service is more important. It will be the 1st year they've missed her birthday. I'm truly amazed that we've managed to go this far in our relationship with them without religion becoming an issue. I always knew having kids would bring issues up and now I'm trying to figure out how to deal with them.
Keep the ideas coming!

It seems like you are being very level-headed about all of this. I wouldn't let it fester if something is really bothering you. If you can let it go, great. If not, I'm sure your ILs wouldn't mind a mention of your concerns.


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## Ceinwen (Jul 1, 2004)

My mother is a devout Catholic, and I am non-practising, but was raised Catholic.

Both my girls have been baptized and will move through the sacraments.

My mother is one of my best friends, and is truly afraid for their immortal soul if this were not to occur.

I'm agnostic, and it doesn't matter either way to me. I would do almost anything to make my mother happy (and vice versa!) that allowing them to attend church with her is a small thing.

My children receive lots of open ended discussion and education from home detailing what we believe as a family, and how others have different beliefs.


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## pauletoy (Aug 26, 2007)

It sounds like you knew they were faithful church goers. If you don't want dd to attend church then you need to ask someone else to keep dd on overnights on Saturdays or during the day on Sunday.

Now since you say you trust them and they are your only childcare for overnights, then you need to decide how important overnights are to you.

I personally would let it go.

By the way, just because your dd went to church doesn't mean that the church or your ILs were trying to convert your child. Your ILs were just doing what they do every Sunday.


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ollyoxenfree* 
If the grandparents mentioned casually that they had gone to church and the child liked it or was well-behaved or even was a little terror, then I'd be more inclined to think it was just part of their routine. The fact that they said nothing about a fair part of their day together speaks volumes.

It's an hour, and the child probably was in a children's program - no blow-by-blow account to give.

Besides, if I need a minute-by-minute account, then I don't trust the person. I just don't need that when my kids are with someone. If they want to tell me about something, that's fine, but I don't ask for an agenda or anything.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VisionaryMom* 
Besides, if I need a minute-by-minute account, then I don't trust the person.

I believe that when another adult has my child, they will be open and honest with me. The inlaws weren't.

If they left the child in childcare that's a whole nother issue. I'd be angry about church, and angry about my child being left with strangers (it wasn't even the grandparents church).


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## Areia (Mar 5, 2009)

I'm not bothered by it. When my mom watches my DD for an extended period of time, than I expect that my daughter will join my mom's usual routine (which includes church services on Saturday afternoons).


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## ~Katie~ (Mar 18, 2007)

If it's something you're opposed to I'd bring it up with them ahead of time that you aren't comfortable with it. If church is important to them it may be best to not expect them to babysit on Sundays.

I'm agnostic but was raised Catholic, I'm not comfortable with attending religious services of any kind or having my kids attend them. But my IL's are well aware of my beliefs. They've asked before if they can take DS to church when they go and we're visiting and I've just let them know that I'm not comfortable with it.


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## rhiOrion (Feb 17, 2009)

This is something I'm going to have to deal with in a few years, for sure.

Both of my ILs are ministers, so it would be completely obvious in my case that if DD spends a Saturday night with them that they are going to take her to church. My mom is very religious, and I would assume she would take her to church too.

But, if I was in your exact situation what would probably bother me is that they don't usually seek out church when they're out of town, and yet they did this time, and then still didn't say anything.

My ILs and my mom attend church regularly (obviously in my ILs' case), but none of them seek out church when they are in town visiting. So, to me it would be a little weird if they suddenly wanted to take DD to some random church.

But to take her to their church would make sense- they want to show her off! And in my mom's case, she'll just want the satisfaction of having taken my DD to church and make sure she occasionally goes. My mom doesn't push religion down my throat at all, but it really really hurts her that I'm not religious.

Honestly, my biggest fear is that they'll all want to take DD to church and because of that they'll want *me* to go. OMG, church bores me to tears, and has for as long as I can remember. Oddly enough, the ILs don't even bother waking DH and me up to go to church anymore- I guess they figured once we were married we were big kids and could make our own decisions. My mom usually asks for the Christmas Eve service to be part of her Christmas present, and we oblige (though I was very relieved that she decided not to go this year, since I was pregnant and EXHAUSTED).

I'm getting off topic because this is something I've thought a lot about. People keep asking me if we'll have DD baptized, and my answer is that I don't care as long as I don't have to do anything.

So, to the OP- I think that taking her to church isn't weird. But I think that seeking out a church when they normally DON'T seek out a church, and then not mentioning it, is a bit odd. But maybe it was because the cousins were in town?


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## SunshineJ (Mar 26, 2008)

I don't know that I'd feel they were "sneaking" so much as I'd feel pretty blindsided! Had your child been at their house in their town, they by all means you should assume that church would be part of the deal. However, to be in a _different_ town and go out of their way to go to church when this is not their typical behaviour when out of town, would make me wonder what point they were trying to make. I don't know that I'd be furious about them not mentioning it or telling me, but yes, blindsided pretty well sums it up.

DH and I would be livid if either of our parents took the children to church. I was annoyed when my mom was explaining to dd what prayer was at Thanksgiving - if she has questions on things like that, then she needs to be directed to her _parents_ if they're standing right there (which we were). We don't refuse to allow our children access to other religions in the future, but for us right now, we're still establishing our new faith and the last thing we need is for someone else to come along and present our children with conflicting information.


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## St. Margaret (May 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SunshineJ* 
I don't know that I'd feel they were "sneaking" so much as I'd feel pretty blindsided! Had your child been at their house in their town, they by all means you should assume that church would be part of the deal. However, to be in a _different_ town and go out of their way to go to church when this is not their typical behaviour when out of town, would make me wonder what point they were trying to make. I don't know that I'd be furious about them not mentioning it or telling me, but yes, blindsided pretty well sums it up.

This was my first thought. My mom will sometimes go to church when she's out of town, sometimes not. But she only ever goes if she has someone to go with-- If I'm going, or she's staying with her dad, who always goes... sometimes when we're out of town together we'll go to mass at some cool old church, and most often when we're all on vacation or a weekend visiting together, we don't go (unless it's like Christmas). But I wouldn't expect church to happen w/o any discussion, in a different town. It does seem a bit odd. Right now DH is going through a lot of thought regarding religion and spirituality, so we're not attending our usual church. I don't think he'd mind if someone took DD to a service or mass but he'd expect to know about it ahead of time. I wouldn't even take her w/o giving him a heads up first. I think it's just basic respect for parents. It could go either way in this case. Perhaps they just really assumed you figured they'd be going. I agree you hopefully trust a caregiver freely... But it does lack a little of that openness that a PP mentioned...


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

I'd stop trying to figure out why and asking for other's projected opinions as to why and what they meant--and just ask them, point blank, about why they said "cousins house" instead of church. You say you have a good relationship with them, that you trust them (and I get the sense from your post that you love them too, even if you don't share their religion).

obviously, this is disturbing to you. It's only going to make it worse if you say nothing and never ask. It could be as simple as, "We were planning to go to cousins house and they invited us to church, sorry about the change of plans." Or maybe they ARE concerned about a lack of religion in DD's life, in which case that invites them to express that and be honest (and also gives you information by which you'll make your next decision about when and where to leave DD).

So ask them, not us! That's the way you'll get the best answer, and the only way that the rift in the relationship is going to be mended a bit.

That being said, I am an evangelical walkaway. I have a gut-punch reaction to certain church communities (it's getting better as I have made a conscious effort to work on that though). I would freak out if someone took my kid to church without permission--but only because I proactively tell folks that I don't want my kids going to church without my permission nor will they go to any church I haven't gone to myself (or concurrently). So if someone takes my kid they are violating a direct (not assumed) prohibition.


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## readermaid (Jan 12, 2009)

Honestly, I expect my mom to take DD to church with her when DD visits my mom. I don't love the idea of DD being exposed to my mom's particular brand of religion, but I wouldn't expect her not to go just because my DD is visiting. But if my mom were to be in my area (too far to attend her church, but plenty of that denomination around here--though not with people my mom would know), I would expect to be informed of any plans to go to church.

Though my DH and I are ex-members of my mom's church (we are now atheist/humanist), so that may color our views. I am not opposed to all organized religion, but I am not interested in my DD being exposed to just anything without me being there or at least aware of it. DD is only 2 now, so it doesn't matter too much. But as she gets older, it will be more of an issue.

imho, I think any time you are bringing someone else's child to a religious occasion of any sort, it is expected that you will inform the parents of your intention ahead of time.


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## *Eva* (Jul 31, 2008)

My mom takes my older son to church all the time but he asks her to take him and he LOVES it. I have no problem with religion and if he chooses to go then I will fully support him in it. She also goes to a VERY large chuch (think 20,000+ members) so their children's ministry is pretty big and very nicely run which is the whole reason he likes to go. Its more like playtime than church.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I would have no problem with that at all.

If I trust them enough to leave my kids for the weekend, I certainly don't mind them having the experience of going to church occasionally with them.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gcgirl* 
I don't see anything wrong with it unless you instruct them not to and they do anyway..

it would never occur to me spell it out that I was going to church on Sunday morning. its what i do every sunday morning (even on vacations...its actualkly a highlight of my vacation, in the future the point of my vacations.....) and often other times. if I had my grandkids on a Sunday morning they would go to church on Sunday morning with me. duh. It wouldn't occur to me you didn;t know. and since I would assumed you knew i would assume you would have said something if you did not want them to go. and it seems like a lot of assumptions but you are assuming they would not go and you are assuming they would know you did not want them to take your dd. if you did not want her going someone where specific(anywhere, not just church) you should have said something.

if I was babysitting for the whole weekend I would just do whatever I wanted to do. it would not occur to me to get permission to go to the mall or the park or church.....So long as you could reach us







:

and weather or not you want your kids to go to church with grandma is your choice of course. I do not allow my kids to go to church with their grandparents. (grandparents think I am dragging my kids to hell and they need to be saved







or at least that is what they told me at their baptism). Beside my kids being targeted at their church because of our faith if they are church with grandma they are not at our church. So If I need grandma and papa to babysit on a saturday night I make sure I or someone else picks them up Sunday morning for church (godmothers or godmothers parents or my godmother or really any number of people would gladly help me out) by whatever time the grandparents have to be to church. i am not rude about it and since my primary reason is so my kids do not miss Liturgy I am just upbeat and enthusiastic about going to church with my kids at our church. I don't have to say anything about their church.....anyhoooo, it would never occur to me to ask them to skip church to babysit. I know if my kids are ever over at their house on a church time they will be going to church with the grandparents. its a given. they don't tell me they are going (except to arrange drop offs) and they don't give me a play by play of what they did. its not because they are deceptive. its just not a big deal for them. nor would it be a big deal to me to take whoever was my responsibility along with me to church. but I also know it is my responsibility to step up and address what i want and make plans for my kids to either not be there on sunday mornings etc . or suck it up and accept that church is part of the package.

If I were babysitting someone elses kids (not family, for only one day) I would point out "well if you want me to babysit her i will need to bring her along to church with us. if you need to pick her up before it is over here is the adress". I am Orthodox so I usually give them a heads up about some of the stuff







in case their kids tells them all kinds of stories.....just by way of explinations. So far no one has cared that i took them to church. all the kids i have babysat have actually been really excited (my house is not that exciting







)


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## newmommy7-08 (Feb 2, 2008)

OP, I just read your update and I'm wondering something. If your inlaws just returned from a mission trip is it possible they've a renewed dedication to church? They may have decided jointly that they wanted to make sure to not use the excuse of going out of town for not attending church. They obviously know how you feel about church since you don't attend it with them. They obviously didn't coach your daughter NOT to tell you because according to your first post she offered the information in a hey this is what we did kind of way. I think they are committed to attending church, saw an opportunity to attend w/ family and decided they'd rather ask forgiveness if you blew up about it than permission beforehand.

I don't think this was sneakiness in the let's convince granddaughter that her parents are wrong about religion kind of way. I think this is more them trying to balance their commitment to God w/ their commitment to you. In the end, your daughter was safe and happy. In the future I'd reccommend you telling them point blank you don't want them taking her to church when you ask them to babysit to give them ample opportunity to refuse if they feel it necessary.


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VisionaryMom* 
It's an hour, and the child probably was in a children's program - no blow-by-blow account to give.

Besides, if I need a minute-by-minute account, then I don't trust the person. I just don't need that when my kids are with someone. If they want to tell me about something, that's fine, but I don't ask for an agenda or anything.

I think you misunderstand. I'm not suggesting that parents *require* a minute-by-minute account (although if they want one, I think they are entitled to get it). IME, grandparents are usually so delighted with their brilliant grandchildren that they love to re-tell stories about their activities together - especially new events. They *volunteer* lengthy, detailed stories about all aspects of what they did together and how the child reacted. Waaay more than I need or want - but hey, that's grandfolk. They love to talk about spending time with their grandchildren.

For me, the fact that the grandparents said nothing about a new experience for their grandchild raised a flag. Yes - it's routine on Sundays for the grandparents to go to church. It isn't routine to take the grandchild, and it isn't a routine experience for the grandchild. So there was enough there for a least a passing mention, I would think.


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## GoestoShow (Jul 15, 2009)

.


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## ginadc (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:

But, if I was in your exact situation what would probably bother me is that they don't usually seek out church when they're out of town, and yet they did this time, and then still didn't say anything.
This. That, combined with the fact that the OP and her husband have made pretty clear that they are not interested in having religion pushed on them (specifically rejecting the offer of a Noah's Ark playset), makes it seem underhanded to me. They don't usually go to church when they visit except on major holidays. They didn't mention that they would be going--in fact, specifically talked about visiting a cousin and omitted all mention of church. Then, after the fact, they once again totally omitted any mention of having taken their grandchild to church.

Yeah, I think this was sneaky. The fact that they changed their behavior about church when out of town (usually going only on major holidays) seems to indicate to me that they went specifically because they were babysitting their granddaughter and wanted to take her. I think they knew the OP and her husband would object to their child's being taken to church, and they deliberately failed to mention it. I would have a huge problem with that.


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## rhiOrion (Feb 17, 2009)

I do think we should all try to keep in mind that no matter what, these grandparents took DD to church because they love her. I'm not saying that OP shouldn't be annoyed, or that not telling her was right, I just thought we could all use a quick step back and remember that this definitely came out of love for the grandchild.


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## MJB (Nov 28, 2009)

We're atheists but I let my mother take my kids to church once. They are mature enough that they understand our beliefs and her beliefs and won't be affected by an hour of Sunday school. I would have liked to find a different sitter that day but we had a wedding to attend and didn't have another option.


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snoopy5386* 
I fully trust MIL and SFIL to take care of DD, I know they would never behave in a malicious or underhanded way with her/us.

BUT I do think it is weird that they never mentioned church to us.....I'm not really sure why.

I don't think this was sneakiness in a let's get grand daughter indoctrinated as soon as possible. I think it was a let's see what we can get away with.

They didn't tell you because they know you'd object. They might not have even planned to do this to start with. It may have been a spur of the moment, impulsive type of thing: Hey, let's meet the cousins at that church and show off the grand daughter!

That's my take, anyway.

Yes, they sneaked her to church and realized they couldn't hide such a big thing. I think I'd leave it alone. But now you know.


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