# Need help with the neighbor's kids. *UPDATE, post 34.* PICTURES ADDED



## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

To understand this situation you sort of need to know how our complexes are laid out. Basically, there are two different complexes on two different streets, that are not in any way related, but do happen to both share a walking path. Both complexes back onto this walking path (which runs between two major blocks, and conjoins two major neighborhoods to the bus route). This path is fairly busy pedestrian thoroughfare.

My mom's townhouse (which I'm staying at for the next month) backs right up to this path. Our fence in the back yard IS the fence along the path. I'd guess that from our patio door to the path is about 35 feet. If that. So not far.

The problem is that there is a group of kids that I'd guess to be between 16-18 who go into the path to smoke, which wafts up into my bedroom window, where I'm sleeping with my 16 month old. And they are not just smoking cigarettes, they are also smoking marijuana (which I don't have a problem with in general, just the manner in which they are going about it).

Last night I took my daughter for a walk up the path to a little park and was DISGUSTED with the amount of cigarette butts and trash (soda cans, cigarette packages, etc) on the path. People also walk their pets along this path.









But most importantly is the fact that it's summer and all our windows are open and I have to lay in bed and be nauseated by the smell of cigarette smoke. (And they're loud and wake DD up.







: )

I suspected that they were in the path because where ever they lived didn't appreciate their smoke, either. I was right, but more about that in a minute.

So anyway, tonight I took DD for another walk and it just so happened that they were in the path. I nicely reminded them to pick up their butts as my daughter tries to pick them up (yuck!). One of them said "we always do" in a really rude tone. I matter of factually pointed out that there were an awful lot of butts then. The same kid said "well a lot of people walk along this path". I know for a FACT that the butts come from them, as I see them standing out there several times a day. I can see them from my living room, back yard, garden, and bedroom. The butts ARE theirs! But I agreed and then pointed out that the majority of butts were where they hang out, and to just remember to pick them up. No biggie. Well as I was walking away one of them barked "this isn't your property". I countered "but I have a right to walk on this path and not worry about my child or my dog picking up or ingesting cigarette butts". And then I walked away.

And tonight it was marijuana they were smoking, in broad daylight. In order to get to the park I had to walk my kid past dope smoke.







:

Turns out the house they live in is RIGHT next to the little park (the hedges on their back patio offer privacy from the park it's that close), and is about 50 feet from the path. As I was finishing my walk two women passed me and ogled at the baby. I noticed they were walking down the driveway of the house where all the boys went into. I immediately turned around and wanted to talk to them.

I introduced myself and ask if they lived there with a bunch of boys. Turns out one of them lives there and she has two boys, and the rest were all friends. I very nicely explained the problem about them smoking basically under my bedroom window, and that the path is LITTERED with cigarette butts. And then I said "so, what do we do?". I wanted her to know I wasn't mad, but that I just want to find a solution to make everyone happy, like maybe putting an ashtray out there (a bucket of sand is what I used when I smoked).

She was very nice, and very apologetic. She says they smoke there because she won't let them smoke in or around her place, and the other neighbors didn't want them smoking in their "other spot", so now they're in the path.

I also told her that one of them was smoking dope. And the reason I did this is because I think it is in bad taste to flaunt that in the faces of people who, *in their own homes*, have no choice but to smell it when it wafts in their windows.. short of closing their windows in the middle of summer, I'm sure there are about 4 units all in this corner who can smell them. I have no problems with people smoking, but I take issue when the second hand smoke is forced upon me and, more importantly, my daughter. If they are going to smoke pot, I think they should do it where all the neighbors are not going be forced to smell it, and where there are no kids (they were literally within a stones throw from a PARK).

She seemed really exasperated, like she's been dealing with this for a while now (being a single mom with teenage boys must not be easy). And I'm sure what I told her was nothing new, but I'm also not going to get into a pissing match with a 16 year old, either.

I also feel that some people will be intimidated by a group of teenagers, all dressed in black, a couple with long hair, and smoking dope in a secluded path, enough to not want to walk down it. It makes for a LOOOOONG walk if you go around, and there are a lot of elderly folks in the area (and we're on a hill). They don't bother me, but I can see how a group of 6 or 7 boys might bother someone else.

I feel like a snitch, but I really don't know what the alternative would have been. Gently reminding them to pick up their butts because my daughter wants to pick them up just incited an argument about who's butts they were, so that didn't work. And talking to the mother didn't seem like any revelation, as she'll most likely have to deal with this again, just in another spot.

I'm thinking of posting the city by-laws about loitering, littering, and smoking in public and posting it to the fence in the path. Would a group of teenage boys care about by-laws? Would it make a difference?

What if they come back? What if the mess doesn't improve? Do I call by-law enforcement? The police?

I know a couple of our other neighbors (in our complex) are not thrilled with them hanging out back there and smoking, but tonight, at 6:30 in the evening when there are kids outside playing, I was really upset to go for a walk and bump into 6 kids smoking a joint right next to the park.

What should I do next time? A part of me wants to tell these kids to put their f-ing smokes out and to get away from the park because it's disgusting and really unhealthy to be blowing their smoke onto a PLAYGROUND, and another part of me says to just ignore it and either deal with their mother or just call the police.

What do I do?


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

I think you've handled it beautifully so far. I say you've done all you reasonably can on your own, and given everyone fair warning -- the next time I smelled pot I'd call the cops.

Edit: I'm a little unclear -- how did your conversation with the mother end? Did she say she would tell them to go elsewhere? (I agree that doesn't ultimately solve the problem, I just can't tell from what you wrote how you left things with her.)


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
Edit: I'm a little unclear -- how did your conversation with the mother end? Did she say she would tell them to go elsewhere? (I agree that doesn't ultimately solve the problem, I just can't tell from what you wrote how you left things with her.)

She said she'd "talk with them". I think I'm going to wait until I see the boys out there again, then go out with a garbage bag and start picking up garbage. I want them to SEE me doing it. And I want them to hear me talking to my daughter about it. I could go out there right now and have it cleaned up in an hour, but if they see me doing it with my daughter in tow they may be more mindful to clean up after themselves. I may also get a bucket of sand while I'm out today and leave it there for anyone else to put their butts in.

At the end of the end day if that spot is the ONLY place they can go, I can close my window while they have a smoke. But I reaaaaaaally detest my daughter picking up someone's cigarette butts. That just totally grosses me out. I would much prefer they clean the mess and use a bucket, instead of leaving the mess and going somewhere else. I told the mom that, and that's when she said she'd have a talk with them.

So we'll see what happens.


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## <~*MamaRose*~> (Mar 4, 2007)

I respect the mom for standing firm on the "she won't let them smoke in or around her place" point BUT since they are now causing a disturbance she either needs to enforce them finding somewhere else to smoke or allow them to smoke in her yard. Bottom line is they can't be allowed to upset the majority in the community.

PS
I say this as a mother of a teen







!


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StrugglingMomX's2* 
I respect the mom for standing firm on the "she won't let them smoke in or around her place" point BUT since they are now causing a disturbance she either needs to enforce them finding somewhere else to smoke or allow them to smoke in her yard. Bottom line is they can't be allowed to upset the majority in the community.

Yeah, that's how I feel too. I didn't say that, but everytime I see them out there I think "why the heck can't you go smoke in front of your OWN house".







:

She touched on the fact that if she made them go elsewhere that they would be motivated to quit. She said in the winter they would stand on the back patio (which is covered) so she made them go elsewhere, thinking that if they had to go out in the rain that they would quit. Well now the weather is nice and they don't have to worry about the rain.


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## <~*MamaRose*~> (Mar 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *North_Of_60* 
She touched on the fact that if she made them go elsewhere that they would be motivated to quit. She said in the winter they would stand on the back patio (which is covered) so she made them go elsewhere, thinking that if they had to go out in the rain that they would quit. Well now the weather is nice and they don't have to worry about the rain.









WOW that was pretty naive of her!


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## Breathless Wonder (Jan 25, 2004)

You could always stick a bucket of sand back there, and stick a few cigarette butts in it. That would at least take care of the butt issue.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

I think I would go out and tell them straight up to go somewhere else. "Ya'll are waking my baby, and the cigarette smoke is not good for her. Can you move it along, please?"


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaduck* 
I think I would go out and tell them straight up to go somewhere else. "Ya'll are waking my baby, and the cigarette smoke is not good for her. Can you move it along, please?"

That's what we were doing. They'd put their cigarettes out and then come back again in a few hours. Or, the snotty one would tell us it's public property and that they have a right to be there. That's why I feel like my last two options were to talk with the mother, and if that didn't work, call the police.

So far today they haven't been out there. BUT, it's been raining all day so that may be why. When it's sunny again will be the true test.


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## <~*MamaRose*~> (Mar 4, 2007)

Well are you having a sunny day today? Got an update for us?


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I would also do the "You are disturbing my family" route too.

Explain that while you understand that they need, and deserve a place to hang out, that you also need and deserve a clean place to live with your baby.

Ask them to please look for another hang out. Maybe suggest that they "Share the love" with the other neighbors.

Do your homes have garages? My friends who smoked, smoked in their own garages. Pot too.

If the parents don't care if they smoke pot, I wouldn't care either. In fact, I kinda miss the smell. But, NOT in front of my home. They should be allowed a place of their own.

Maybe Mom should suck it up and let them smoke in her back yard.

edited to add... be as respectful as you can. They will be a lot more likely to honor your request if you are nice (but firm) about it.

Besides, while they are annoying, they may be the first people to help you if you need help.


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Update:

Well, it was nice all afternoon. As in not raining, and actually sunny for a while. I was pleasantly surprised to not see or hear them back there, and then all of a sudden, in the last few hours, they were back 3 times in 2 hours.







:

They weren't *loud* this time, but I can definitely hear them out there. They're basically standing right under my bedroom window. So I crawled out of bed after getting DD to sleep, put my shoes on, and went out onto the back patio to ask them to move on. He was really good about it (he's the one that lives there.. it's the friend, who doesn't live there, that is snotty). He said "we're just having a quick smoke". I said "I know, that's my bedroom window (and I pointed) and I can smell it, and I can hear you talking. Plus, I have 16 month old daughter who is trying to sleep up there." He said he was really sorry and that they'd leave.

That's all fine and dandy. I was nice, he was nice. I asked them to leave, they said they would. Cool beans.

BUT.. what do I do about the butts (cigarette butts that is)? And, am I going to have to ask them to leave every night?

I've also been looking through our local bylaws, and they are violating 3 that I know of (littering, fire control, and controlled substances). Now, do I tell them that they are breaking these by-laws, and that I'm willing to make a compromise? Or do I just go straight to reporting them? Which I don't want to do. But I also don't want to sound like a broken record.

As for the compromise, I think it would be more then fair for them to smoke out there AS LONG AS they clean up the butts that are already there, and then of course don't leave any more. I would suggest the bucket of sand. Plus, no more night time smoking. I think after 9 pm they need to move on. If they want to go out and chit chat while they smoke, do it on their own property.

Unless the wind catches it at a certain angle, I don't always smell it. But I ALWAYS hear them out there, even if they are being quiet. And, the littering is just disgusting.

So, if they can clean up the mess and stop talking under my window at bedtime I'd be happy. How do I get this message across? And if they don't cooperate, _then_ I report them?


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## HeidiAnn67 (Jun 12, 2007)

I'm confussed on the age of these kids (and I'm just assuming your in the US, I dont really know). If they are under 18 it's illegal to smoke. Never mind that it's illegal to smoke Pot. Personally I would have called the Police.


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

I'm in Canada, and I'm unsure of the their age. Some of them look really young, and others look much older. I'm guessing between 16-18, though I could be wrong.


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## <~*MamaRose*~> (Mar 4, 2007)

IMO the police have bigger fish to fry then these teens but maybe calling bylaw on them is an option, nothing like a good fine! I still stand by leaning on the mom to have the boys stay within her backyard!

PS
I could be wrong but the police won't do anything about *a* joint.


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StrugglingMomX's2* 
IMO the police have bigger fish to fry then these teens

I agree. And unless they do a stake out in my yard to *catch* them back there, it will be their word against ours. Same goes for the by-law I guess, but in the case of getting money from a fine they may be motived to enforce it. Who knows.

Quote:

I could be wrong but the police won't do anything about *a* joint.
Back in my youth *a* joint with a MINOR was a huge deal. I don't know about know. As an adult I doubt they'd care, but underage kids smoking in public used to be a huge deal.


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## alaskaberry (Dec 29, 2006)

here's an idea: next time they are smoking, go out there and tell them you are collecting donations for a window fan (to keep the smoke *out*, not suck it back in). If you're grown-up enough to smoke, at least be responsible enough to not poison other people while you're doing it. I agree with the sand bucket idea and picking up the trash in front of them. Of course, they may just keep on littering to spite you.


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## shelbean91 (May 11, 2002)

Can you put out an ashtray or bucket of sand? Of course, it's not (shouldn't be) your responsibility, but they might get the hint. In the retirement community where my MIL lives, there are quite a few yards who have containers for butts so people walking by don't just throw them.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

The only problem with the ashtray idea is that it might encourage them to smoke in that location. You might try putting an ashtray at another less disturbing location and see if it works to move them.


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## menudo (May 21, 2002)

Quote:

If they are under 18 it's illegal to smoke.
Not in the USA. It is illegal for a minor to PURCHASE cigarettes and it is illegal for someone to intentionally purchase cigarettes for a minor but it is completely LEGAL for a minor to posses cigarettes and smoke them.

Most of my teen cousins have been caught with MJ and alcohol. None of them got in any real trouble even though the law states they can even lose there driving privilege until age 21-just for being caught with alcohol!


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

Jan 03'
"In the past eight years, states began enacting legislation that also prohibits minors from possessing tobacco products. To date, it appears that at least 36 states, including four New England states, and the District of Columbia prohibit tobacco possession by minors. "

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2003/rpt/2003-R-0015.htm


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## HeidiAnn67 (Jun 12, 2007)

I'm surprised. I thought the cigarette law was Nation Wide (but then I'm from a New England state, so obviously it's all around me). And it isn't just buying because I know a boy who was arrested for possessing cigarettes, in fact he was the first kid in my city right after the law went into effect. He ended up having to do community service.


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

It seems it is more the friend than the kid who lives in the complex who is the problem. Ask the kid for where he lives so you can talk to his mother about his cigarette & MJ use. If that doesn't work(and it probably won't given their ages), then I'd contact both complexes and see if they can do anything about the littering, etc. maybe they can put up security cameras?

Is this walkway city property? If so then I'd call the city to complain, since you know where the 1 kid lives. Unfortunatly his mother will get the complaint notice, but if she talks to her son maybe he can convince his friends to go elsewhere. At their ages there's no reason they can't go further away.

I understand the mom not wanting the cigarettes at her place, but that doesn't mean everyone else should have to deal with it.


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

I am FUMING MAD right now. I just called the cops, and I am going to call the cops every time I smell them out there until something is done about it.

Finally after 5 days of rain the sun is coming out. It's a nice evening and my mom and I just finished putting together and outside bench for DD and were about to take it outside for her when all I hear is coughing and spitting coming from the "smoke pit". I put my shoes on and went out there to talk to them, yet again, because this issue is not going to go away.

This time they had THREE bongs out there. And lawn chairs!! Not a pipe, not a joint, but a freaking foot long water bong, and 2 smaller bongs. On a PUBLIC path. UNDER my bedroom window, and about 30 feet from my patio. NEXT to a PARK!! There are children all up and down the hill playing outside in the first bit of sunshine we've seen all week and there are three teenagers parked out there in freaking lawn chairs getting high.































I asked them why they couldn't go down to the creek, and they basically laughed at me because they don't want to walk all the way down there.

I also asked them why they can't go sit in their own drive way, and he told me that his mother won't let him. That's nice. Send your dope smoking teenager to sit next to a park and get high with a bunch of neighborhood kids watching. Lovely.

I told him that I was aware of them breaking 3 by-laws. He laughed at me again. I asked him if he would like to work out a solution, like getting an ash tray - that *I* - would pay for so they could smoke their cigarettes, and then when they use the bong they can go down to the creek. He said no. I asked them if they would rather just have me go through the police and by-law enforcement if they didn't want to find an amicable solution and he told me that the police told them to go smoke their dope in the path. I asked for the Constables name and he didn't know it. So I told them I was going inside to get my phone and then I was going to walk up and get their house number, then call the station to verify that they were allowed to smoke out there. When they saw me on the phone they promptly packed up their lawn chairs and went inside.

I was told the police would be coming out to take a look. They have the boys house number and street number.

I told the police that I will file a report *every singe time* I see them out there until a solution is found. I have tried to handle this nicely by offering to pay for an ash tray. I have suggested a night time smoking curfew so they don't wake the neighbors up (they were out there at midnight last night and woke up my daughter). I have asked them nicely to simply just leave. I have talked to the mother and that didn't work.

Something needs to change, because I want to enjoy my patio and garden in the nice weather without hearing someone cough up a lung and "hawk a loogie" while they puff away on their bong.







:


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## cycle (Nov 18, 2004)

Oh my! You have been much more patient than I would have been! Next time I would not warn them before calling the police. Unreal - I hope this is over for you soon!


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## <~*MamaRose*~> (Mar 4, 2007)

Ok this situation is totoally unacceptable and HUGS! OMG! Honestly do they really believe they’re going to come out the winners in this I mean really! I can’t believe that they are being soooooo defiant! Are you in a rental or condo? I ask because I really feel you need to force this mother into action! Yes, call the police since they are being so beyond reason and I would also be writing a VERY detailed letter to the rental company or condo corp about that house!


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## secondseconds (Jun 22, 2005)

Is there anything your mom can do as the actual tenant? Can she file a complaint with her property management?


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *secondseconds* 
Is there anything your mom can do as the actual tenant? Can she file a complaint with her property management?

My mom is in a rental co-op, the boys are in owned townhouses. My mom's co-op turns the other cheek, but *I* am not. And since they are on neither property, but rather on CITY property by sitting in a path, I can take what ever action I want seeing as how I have every right to use that path, regardless of where I live. You know?

So, I am writing a letter the other mom's strata council, and I am going to have a talk with her one more time. I am going to be flat out honest that this crap IS going to end, or they or going to get sick to death of hearing from me. Plain and simple.

I don't care if they want to smoke. I don't care if they want to smoke dope. What I care about is the fact that they're BLOCKING a public walking path, and are so intimidating that people are walking around because of them. Further more, they are smoking their MJ next to a park, and with children playing around them. Which, even as liberal as I am about MJ, seems soooo wrong.

All I ask is that they keep their MJ smoking private and don't flaunt it in the faces of the neighbors and neighborhood kids. If they're going to smoke cigarettes, they should clean up their mess and have some kind of respect for everyone by not going out there at all hours of the night. Fair?


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## Papai (Apr 9, 2007)

Sorry, but they crossed the line with the mairjuana.

I compeltely agree with you, call the cops.

And I really truly question the sanity of this boy's mother. She lets him smoke weed knowingly? Call the police.


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## TinyFrog (Jan 24, 2006)

You have handled this all very well and I think you have been as amicable as possible. You have been nice, offered solutions and compromises and they have taken none. They deserve the consequences coming to them. Keep going mama. I hope a solution comes soon.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

You've bent over backwards trying to offer them reasonable solutions. I wouldn't warn them anymore, I'd just go straight to the police so they can catch them in the act (actually, I'm mean, I would have done that the very first time).


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## Irish (Jun 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *menudo* 
Not in the USA. It is illegal for a minor to PURCHASE cigarettes and it is illegal for someone to intentionally purchase cigarettes for a minor but it is completely LEGAL for a minor to posses cigarettes and smoke them.

Most of my teen cousins have been caught with MJ and alcohol. None of them got in any real trouble even though the law states they can even lose there driving privilege until age 21-just for being caught with alcohol!

For clarification, it's not illegal in Canada either, only the purchasing of like the above poster mentioned.

They also tend to be more lax about pot as well, but perhaps it will take another authority, or the threat a monetary fine, to get the message across.


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## pranamama (Nov 6, 2002)

I wonder how long it will take the police to do somethign....

They sound so rude! (the teens)


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

FINALLY, the police came out and actually did something!!

Again, I was laying in bed and could hear the familiar sound of lighters flicking, and them spitting, and loud chatter, kicking trash around, etc. It was 30 degrees today, so ALL the windows are open, and yep, cigarette and marijuana smoke was wafting in the windows.

So I called the non emergency line again (I think this is the second or third time I've called since I last posted). The said they'd send a FEW cars out to take a look. This time I staked out the window, turned the TV off, turned the lights off, turned the fans off.. all so I could hear and see in the dark.

Low and behold, they showed up!! But as soon as the patrol car pulled in they took off. I hear glass break, then "[email protected] [email protected], RUN", and then you could hear them hauling buggy down the path. I saw the officer walk up the path with a flash light, so I went out and met him at the fence. We had a GOOD chat. He's going to see about getting the fence torn down. Not the fence that backs onto our yard, but the fence on their side of the complex then encloses the path and makes it dark and secluded. He shined he light up the path and said you can barely see 30 feet up there, no wonder kids are up there smoking! He also said something about getting lights put in.

We went on to have a good chat. Didn't hurt that he was cute as heck.







: But I digress. He was very understanding, and this kind of thing annoys him as much as me. He even told me about a little old lady in his complex that got scared by a group of teens, so he knows the trouble we're having.

THEN, right as we were talking, a group of kids came walking down the path. He shined the light in their face, and the kid snottily (is that a word?) said "get that effing thing out of my face". The officer said "EXCUSE ME?". I don't think the kid knew it was a cop, so he said "I don't want that shined in my face". The officer said "I don't care what you want, stop right where you are".

He then went on to tell them that they've received several calls about kids smoking dope in the path, and of course the kids denied it. It sounded like he asked them to open their bags, but I'm not sure if you can do that, so maybe I'm wrong. By that point I started to make my way back inside. The kids already know who I am, so if those were the ones (I couldn't tell it was dark) I really didn't want to be standing there watching them get questioned.

I don't think it was them though, because as I was literally typing this message 4 kids came RUNNING down the path, hooting and hollering, "yeah baby, they didn't get us, PIGS, etc etc". The must have been hiding in the path the whole time I was standing there talking to the officer.

So I called back and told the dispatcher they were back, and that the kids must have been hiding the whole time the officers were there.

Again, mid post I see the flash lights out back, so I went back out to talk to them and tell them which direction I saw the kids head. The officer said he heard rustling in the path and suspected some of the kids jumped a fence into one of the neighboring yards.

They're going to hang around tonight. They said they're going to move the car to make the kids think they're gone, then keep an eye on the place. I'm SO HAPPY someone is finally doing something about this. Not only just catching these inconsiderate kids and holding them accountable, but removing the fence and putting of lights would be a HUGE improvement!!!


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

There is broken glass EVERYWHERE back there today. I am going out to pick it up in a bit. Many people walk their dogs and children out there, and you can barely get through without stepping on it. I'm using the gardening utensils from our complex - push broom, shovel, wheel barrow. It's gross back there. It also smelled like they've been peeing back there.







: It's disgusting.

Would it be appropriate to leave the bag of trash in their driveway??


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

I'd file a police report before cleaning it up. Take pictures before cleaning it up too. Also, while filing the report, ask the police if it would help for you to get pictures of them actually doing the damage next time.


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## AutumnMama (Jan 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moondiapers* 
I'd file a police report before cleaning it up. Take pictures before cleaning it up too. Also, while filing the report, ask the police if it would help for you to get pictures of them actually doing the damage next time.


I definitely agree.
What a hassle!!


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## momma-d (Feb 2, 2007)

wow! so sorry you're having to deal with all of this...and that the mother of the kid is leaving it up to someone else to parent her child. ugh.
(((hugs)))


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Here are the pictures of the path. Some of the grafiti was already there, but it is WAY worse today.







:

That little nook is a great place to flick their butts and garbage (this is also the place where they set up their lawn chairs, otherwise they stand in the spot marked "smoke pit"):
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/d...g?t=1187293094

Inside the nook:
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/d...g?t=1187293135

Cigarette butts:
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/d...g?t=1187293158

A few of the old grafiti looking down the path:
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/d...g?t=1187293198

New grafiti from last night:
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/d...g?t=1187293231

This picture says it all for me.. that's my bedroom window you see above the fence. This clearly shows how close they are to our house. Just on the other side of the fence is our garden.
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/d...g?t=1187293272

The park next to their house:
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/d...g?t=1187293365

The path from their house:
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/d...g?t=1187294465

The path from my house (see how close I am?







: ):
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/d...g?t=1187294487


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## DandeCobb (Jul 20, 2006)

that sucks that they are making your home so unpleasant. I have a big thing about my home being an oasis away from everything, i would be so upset! good luck, i hope the police can help!


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## maygee (Dec 22, 2006)

Could you set up a sprinkler on your property in your backyard, maybe just a couple hours a night...and stake it out for a few nights just to make sure that they don't mess with it? Of course then you'd hava to contend with the urge to hose them down...


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maygee* 
Could you set up a sprinkler on your property in your backyard, maybe just a couple hours a night...and stake it out for a few nights just to make sure that they don't mess with it? Of course then you'd hava to contend with the urge to hose them down...

And it's a waste of water.

At this point, I really just want them to be cought. I don't know if I'm more mad about the police simply not doing anything about it, or them knowing the police aren't going to do anything about, and in essence sticking their thumb on their nose and doing it anyway.

These kids/young adults (if they're over 18) could end up with a criminal record because of this, if it gets to that point. All because of a few bad decisions. However, there is a certain level defiance, and a refusal to co-exist within society while respecting your neighbors that just doesn't sit right with me either.

At what point does someone else's "choice" to break the law become a disruptance that must be dealt with? When do you become accountable for your actions?

I'm just so frustrated with the whole situation.







:


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Now we can add fire crackers to the list of problems. In broad day light. One more goes off and I'm calling the police again before one of them shoots through my window.







:


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## <~*MamaRose*~> (Mar 4, 2007)

Is this still your neighbors kid and his *gang*!?!?!?!!?! If yes, someone would have to physically be holding me back from marching over there and tearing a strip of her!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HUGS!


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StrugglingMomX's2* 
Is this still your neighbors kid and his *gang*!?!?!?!!?! If yes, someone would have to physically be holding me back from marching over there and tearing a strip of her!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HUGS!

Yep, it's them.







: I've talked to her already, and I don't really know what it good it would do go over there. Everytime I've gone over there after they've been out back, she wasn't home anyway. Surprise surprise.

On the bright side, I do have a video of them smoking a joint. I'm going to wait and see what happens tonight, and if I can get more pics/videos, then I'll be putting it on disk and taking it to the police station.

If the police STILL don't do anything about it, I'll be taking my disk with the videos and pictures to the news stations.


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

I agree with the water hose, but I"d have it set up so if you hear them out there then it gets turned on.

What do the landlords/management say about it? Surely you could send the pics you took to them, including the one of them smoking the joint.

Can you collaborate with your neighbors & do a neighborhood watch/patrol?

Unfortunatly until the police catch them in action there isn't much they can do.


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## <~*MamaRose*~> (Mar 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CarrieMF* 
What do the landlords/management say about it? Surely you could send the pics you took to them, including the one of them smoking the joint.

Can you collaborate with your neighbors & do a neighborhood watch/patrol?

Unfortunatly until the police catch them in action there isn't much they can do.

Ohhhh a neighborhood watch would be perfect! How do the rest of your neighbors feel about what's going on?

Also, do you have a motion spotlight? If not, I'd get one and aim it in the direction of the path.


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StrugglingMomX's2* 
Ohhhh a neighborhood watch would be perfect! How do the rest of your neighbors feel about what's going on?

Also, do you have a motion spotlight? If not, I'd get one and aim it in the direction of the path.

The other neighbors are upset about how the path looks, but other then it's an "out of sight, out of mind" thing. We're fortunate in that we can leave out complex by going down the driveway, so we aren't forced to use the path. Other houses further up the hill need to use it to get to the bus stop, so they are probably more concerned.

This complex did put locking gates/doors up because of teens, not necessarily these ones, cutting through and congregating at the back of our property. So now you need a key to get in and out of our complex, which is nice, but doesn't help when we are only separated by a fence, you know?

I've been printing all my posts from the this thread as sort of a running diary. I also have pictures and videos now, and we're taking them to our co-op meeting this month to see everyone else's thoughts. We are the only unit that backs directly up to the path, though there are 4 in this little corner who can hear them. Our community garden also backs directly up to the fence, and we've had problems with trash being throwing into the garden, spitting, etc. My biggest concern now is the smell of urine back there. We are on a hill, so drainage would come right down the hill into our complex. I'm not sure how that would work, but just the thought of it gave me the willies.







: We eat the food in the garden.

I'm really shocked at how deplorable these kids have behaved. I was no saint of a teenager, either. I smoked, I drank, I cursed... but I NEVER would have acted this way. Never. And because I remember what it's like to be a teenager I didn't take on a "me grown up, you kid, do what I say" attitude. I honestly though they'd lip me off and then move down the path another couple hundred feet into the green belt and we'd be done with this. I'm FLABBERGASTED that they have continued to flaunt their defiance right under my nose while taking up property destruction and public urination.

If you could see the lay out of the area, you would understand how EASY it would be for them to walk 2 minutes down to the river. Heck, they could light a FIRE down there, sit in their lawn chairs, and NO ONE would see them. They are acting like this for the express purpose of trying to piss me off, and I am NOT going to give them that satisfaction, which is why I have not spoken to them since the last time they brushed off my attempts to resolve this.

Just







:

But I leave in two weeks, so I'm not optimistic much will be resolved by then anyway.


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## shanagirl (Oct 24, 2005)

For what it's worth-- I've had my share of good and bad confrontations over the years. The problem now is you've got bored teenagers making an activity out of bugging you.

I think you sent a mixed signal by putting the sand bucket out. You really don't want them out there. Can you make that area less hospitable? What kind of music does you mom have-- any Wagner, or Johnny Matthis? Don't laugh--the FBI has used loud annoying music to lure hostage takers out of standoffs! Here's a fun idea-- there are organic fertilizers made from fish matter that will make your lawn beautiful but smell like dead fish for a few days. You can buy some, mix it with a bucket of water, and pour it along that side of the fence. In my experience, no one will want to stand around there near it.

Unfortunately, you live near the teenager with the mom who is a pushover. I had a best friend like that in high school, and yep, we lived at her house.

Good luck because I totally understand how wrong this is to have to endure.
I would keep a dialogue with the police going too.


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shanagirl* 

I think you sent a mixed signal by putting the sand bucket out.

I didn't put a sand bucket out there. It was one suggestion I made in the begining to try to curb the butts on the ground, but I was laughed at, so I never bothered.


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## loriforeman (Aug 18, 2007)

you're nicer than i am. really, you are.

i'd calmly inform them that their choices and decisions were their own, but that i refused to let them compromise the health of my child.

i'd take pictures/video of them smoking both cigarettes AND the dope...and then march down there with a broom, dustpan, and trash can. i'd then inform them that they had a choice, clean up their mess, or i would take the video to the police. if that didn't bother them, i'd print out copies and post them around the neighborhood









you don't mess with my kids. period. and i'd definitely call the law, each and every time. WITH evidence.


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## <~*MamaRose*~> (Mar 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loriforeman* 
i'd take pictures/video of them smoking both cigarettes AND the dope...and then march down there with a broom, dustpan, and trash can. i'd then inform them that they had a choice, clean up their mess, or i would take the video to the police. if that didn't bother them, i'd print out copies and post them around the neighborhood









I laughed when I read this and thought "Go mama go!" but then started thinking that I'd bet money if she did this it would somehow get her in trouble!


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StrugglingMomX's2* 
I laughed when I read this and thought "Go mama go!" but then started thinking that I'd bet money if she did this it would somehow get her in trouble!

Oh believe me, I've thought of every vendictive thing possible. When I saw the broken glass (which someone else cleaned up BTW, maybe them?) I was going to sweep it up spread it all over their fricking drive way. Oh I was MAD. (And getting mad again thinking about it







).

BUT.. it wouldn't solve anything. It would just teach them that whenever there is a conflict about their actions they get to act like hooligans instead of trying to resolve it. It sucks being the mature one.









They saw me videoing them the other day and haven't been back. I have lots of footage of them out there, and you can HEAR them, nothing that actually shows them at a good angle. I'm waiting for the day they go out there with their bongs and sit in their lawn chairs. I will get a CLEAR shot (photo not video) through the fence. Then all I need is a picture of them walking into their house and I'm done.


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## Gendenwitha (Apr 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *North_Of_60* 
I don't care if they want to smoke. I don't care if they want to smoke dope. What I care about is the fact that they're BLOCKING a public walking path, and are so intimidating that people are walking around because of them.

So mainly, you have an issue with how these young people look. I get the distinct impression that if this were adults we were talking about that were smoking, or children who were making noise (dare I say it--maybe even _your_ little angel) or even if they were clean-cut looking kids you wouldn't be so riled up over this. You know my dh is a long-haired, black-trench-coat-wearing ex-smoker, and he DID always pick up his cigarette butts, but I notice you didn't even consider the fact that this kid might be telling the truth, because "they" are always down there even though it's also a "public" path that lots of people use. Guess what, they are part of the public, and even if you and some curmudgeon neighbors think they're scary looking, that doesn't mean they have to sit at home so they don't frighten anyone.

You know, it's not the kids everyone else has a problem with in this little situation, it's you, you're the one not exactly winning friends here. Don't the police in your neighborhood have anything better to do? (Don't you have anything better to do?) How much pot smoke could POSSIBLY be getting in your window? Do something quick, your daughter sounds like she's getting a contact high nightly! Buy a flippin' fan.

Hearing people beneath your window is part of the communal living of that type of housing. They're not blaring stereos, they're (gasp) talking! And I know the streets are cleaner in Canada, but to me, the incriminating cigarette butts are barely noticeable. If you don't like it, sweep it up, and ask the landlord for an outdoor ashtray and a couple of flower-pots. (And BTW, urine is absorbed in soil, it doesn't run down a dirt or grass hill. Dogs pee in your garden, and if you buy veggies in a supermarket, even if they're organic to CA standards, they're allowed to put raw sewage on them as fertilizer.)

If you had relayed this exact same story and said "I don't care if they want to smoke. I don't care if they want to smoke dope. What I care about is the fact that they're BLOCKING a public walking path, and these *young black men* are so intimidating that people are walking around because of them." people here would have jumped your [UAV] in a New York minute. But as teenagers, who choose to have a unconventional appearance, they are okay to de-personalize and write off as "intimidating".

Okay... stepping down off my







and waiting patiently for someone to go running to mdc authorities about how mean I am, and for me to get my hand slapped or the thread removed, because disparaging anonymous teen neighbors for how they look (which probably means they're in a different socio-economic class than you) is okay, but my being offended by that attitude wouldn't get looked twice at, much less get this thread shut down, but my offending people by pointing that out will...

... same song, next verse... now where did I put that link to the other messageboard I found...


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## anj119 (Sep 19, 2002)

No, not at all Gendenwitha...... you are not the only one whose skin is crawling. .. But, you _are_ the only one who would get into the snake pit to say so.

Anytime I see people behaving in the way exampled by this thread.... where a seed of malcontent turns into a pebble then a rock ... and some snowballing is taking place as a righteous type of fervor builds (and this dynamic is almost completely impervious to intervention of the sort that you offer) ... we all know how pointless it is to try to dissuade someone from scape goating , or from their justifications for doing so. They won't hear it, and you just become another one of their targets.

No, you are not the only one offended by the tone of this thread. But, you are the only one willing to put yourself in the line of fire by voicing your disagreement with the mob here.

I got ya, i got ya...... now lets just slowly move away from the area .... thats right thats right reeeeeeaaaal slow and easy
....

-anj119


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

I disagree with the last 2 posters becuase this is an issue with these teens not showing respect.

They have their own yard, they can smoke in their yard. Obviously what they're doing is bothersome to their own parents as their own parents don't want them in their yard.

If I was the OP it wouldn't matter if they were 16 or 96, what they are doing is disrepectful to the community. Their age, clothing, appearance has nothing to do with anything.

So what is urine soaks into the ground, these guys do not need to be urinating there. Unlike a dog, these guys can walk home & pee in their own toilets.

They do not need to be leaving their butts on the ground, dropping their bongs & leaving the broken glass, being loud past the noise bylaws, smoking outside another person's property.

Yes it is public property but that does not mean they are free to do whatever illegal things they want to do. They should be MORE respectful because it is public property.


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## loriforeman (Aug 18, 2007)

for the record...i could care less that it's teens. what *i* would be pissy about is the dope...AND the cigarettes. but mostly the dope.

take that somewhere else, i don't want it by MY kids.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loriforeman* 
for the record...i could care less that it's teens. what *i* would be pissy about is the dope...AND the cigarettes. but mostly the dope.

take that somewhere else, i don't want it by MY kids.

"I also feel that some people will be intimidated by a group of teenagers, all dressed in black, a couple with long hair, and smoking dope in a secluded path, enough to not want to walk down it. "
So I guess if they were dressed preppy the OP would have found them less threatening - otherwise she wouldn't have felt it necessary to mention the clothes. I guess we are lucky they were male, otherwise we'd be subjected to the whole "SLUT" thing...


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## anj119 (Sep 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CarrieMF* 
I disagree with the last 2 posters because this is an issue with these teens not showing respect.

I agree with the PP and the OP about the respect issue. It certainly is not going to serve these people well to continue the defiant 'tudes.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CarrieMF* 
They have their own yard, they can smoke in their yard. Obviously what they're doing is bothersome to their own parents as their own parents don't want them in their yard.

What occurs to me in regard to this statement is that OP has her own yard too. Her yard butts up against public property. My yard does too.
I grew up in a remote area in the North Idaho Rocky Mountains. Now I live smack dab in the heart of an urban area near downtown.
And what I learned fairly quickly is that my peace cannot be, i cannot allow my peace to be effected by the sounds and the people going about their peopley business all around me. I cannot do that. unless i want no peace.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CarrieMF* 
So what is urine soaks into the ground, these guys do not need to be urinating there.

She never said they were peeing there (oh, actually she did say that) she said she smelled urine there.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CarrieMF* 
They do not need to be leaving their butts on the ground,

No, they do not. No one does. Still, I am not real impressed by the cigarette butt litter evidenced in the photos. More misc. trash accumulates along my fence line in a week than what the OPs photo shows. Part of my routine is sweeping the sidewalks around my home on a corner.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CarrieMF* 
dropping their bongs & leaving the broken glass,

listen, when you drop glass on the concrete, what do you hear? since the police are now involved, sweeping up the shards from the glass which broke as they laid a Twinkie in their shorts..... this seems a petty complaint in light of the circumstances. She called the police, they dropped and ran just like she wanted them too.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CarrieMF* 
being loud past the noise bylaws,

the noise the OP finds so unbearable and rude is the noise created by people having conversation. they are talking. not war whooping. not Tarzan's jungle cry. OK? talking. According to the OP, they even try to talk *quietly* for her. She reports that despite this, she still hears them speaking in hushed tones.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CarrieMF* 
smoking outside another person's property.

come on now...... please. outside another persons property is just that. it is *outside* of another persons property. all sorts of stuff going on outside my property today. already had several dogs with their owner's in tow pee all over my fence where my kids play. the major renovation project is in full swing across the street. the lady two doors down has unleashed the hound (a yapper) and her two exuberant youngsters whose shrills and shrieks I always mistake for violence. Extreme violence. And bloodshed







hahahahaaa







We've already had the crew of 'tuff guys' come by on their way to summer school at the jr high at the bottom of the hill. In a little while they'll be back on through... heading home. and yelling and pushing and spitting (spitting is tres cool with these dudes.... points for volume, points for heaviness of splat), and cursing _and_ smoking cigarettes, _and_ littering all sorts of ..... sheesh, why even list all this. sorry. you are spared further elaboration on the myriad sources of potential discontent found in my neighborhood.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CarrieMF* 
Yes it is public property but that does not mean they are free to do whatever illegal things they want to do. They should be MORE respectful because it is public property.

Taking a quick inventory here ....... nope, Ive never seen this type of 'should be' manifest into 'are being' except if its me. Taking a look around I see many examples of poor behavior, and disrespect for others, and well...... in general I see humans. just plain old everyday humans doing plain old everyday irritating stuff. We all live with it, each one of us. And the OP too.

I wanted to say my initial post to this thread was heavy handed.
I do actually agree with the OP concerning the rude behavior of the kids. She tried to be cool and they pretty much told her where to stick it. I don't like that.
And, as for shooting yourself in the foot, I think these kids are about to learn a good lesson about not shitting in the nest. Although they are away from their homes, I say that this gathering area away from home qualifies as for the analogy. Obviously, they are attached to using it. If that be the case, (and you and I know this already but they may be just about to start figuring this out), then they would be wise to minimize their impact upon the area esp. when it is an adverse impact involving neighbors - such as it is here.

Predictably, they are going to meet with trouble based upon the continuing activity. I have 3 children, the oldest is 12. So, my idea about what kind of trouble they deserve to meet with.... comes just from my own experiences as a teen.

How about the OP takes it upon herself to accomplish the massive task of cleaning up the area. I saw the pictures. There is alot of trash accumulated there...... looks to be old and matted and will be not a fun job. But, how about getting the area into the kind of shape she visualizes for herself. Then, start the score-keeping again. with a fresh slate.
if they _are_ the ones being pigs and they _are_ lying to her about it not being their trash, then such will become obvious in the newly cleaned environment.

About the graffiti, some people love graffiti. Not me. It really bugs me when some idiot goes and 'tags' some spot they consider to be cool or theirs. Way to tip em to your hand stupid! god.... so, what I've done only once and they are teens and hard to talk to and they look at me like Ive got cheese coming out of my nose.....
but, i say real mellow i say 'hey man..... hows it goin'? ' I say 'hey man tell me what is the deal here wit the paint, man?' and they adopt the counter-posture as if they are getting unfairly railed on for their art. And I said 'man this is not helping the people in this neighborhood at all because it is bringing attention to our kids from the police.' i said to the one kid on the skateboard but the others were listening from their perch on the top of the picnic bench i know, i asked him if they get problems from the police ever. and he very clearly feels very persecuted very unfairly judged -and i said to him that the paint was not for those places we live and need to be safe in. because it is like giving the police a map to our homes and an invitation to visit us with their guns. i told him go tag on the police. i told him go tag on the polluters. And he and his friends laughed at me but i said to them I'm serious this brings problems to our neighborhood where we live we have problems enough. and then i got in my minivan (hahahaha) and went home. but guess what no tags since then this was about three months ago those kids listened to me and they still skate there all hours loudly but no new paint

Maybe I'm lucky. But, maybe OP is encountering trouble and misery that comes as much from her attitude as it does from their presence in her life.
don't chase them
don't hate on them

Help yourself first. Create the environment you think you deserve first. _Then_ blame them if they screw it up.

I promise this is it from me I will be quiet observer again.
carry on.

-anj119


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## Quinalla (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gendenwitha* 
So mainly, you have an issue with how these young people look...

Wow, I am not sure where you go that impression? While I too kinda roll my eyes when someone gets upset about how someone is dressed (because I was friends with plenty of people who liked the goth look in high school and college and how they dressed had nothing to do with what kind of person they were), you are taking one small part of the OP post and claiming it is her main beef? Her main problems to me seem to be the odors, noises, trash and graffiti.

If this were happening to me I would be pissed too and I would guess the OP would still be pissed even if they were dressed in khakis and polo shirts. I know I would and I would be even more pissed if adults were doing this. Both know better, but behavior from teens like this is more understandable, from adults? It would be completely ridiculous.

To the OP, I am glad you are trying to get something the police will take seriously. Good luck!


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## Gendenwitha (Apr 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Quinalla* 
Wow, I am not sure where you go that impression?

Gee, maybe the part I quoted where she said the fact that they looked "intimidating" was more important than the cigarettes or drugs?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Quinalla* 
While I too kinda roll my eyes when someone gets upset about how someone is dressed (because I was friends with plenty of people who liked the goth look in high school and college and how they dressed had nothing to do with what kind of person they were),

You know I was watching an interview with Tavis Smiley last night and he said, "I've got plenty of friends that are white people" (audience laughter) "what, you act like you've heard that somewhere before."

You know you may have had friends that "liked the goth look" but apparently it didn't make enough an impression on you to think that maybe, like your friends, this person is making blanket statements and accusations about this group of people.

I'm sure my friends and I were all painted with the same brush by neighbors too, but not all of us smoked pot, not all of us dropped cigarette butts, and it was the preppy kids who did the graffiti and vandalized houses (but the police showed up at my door and my friends' door). She has witnessed some kids smoking pot, some kids smoking. She doesn't know who did the graffiti, she doesn't know who urinated in the area, and even if it was "those kids" she doesn't know which ones. Some of my friends did coke and stole cars, but that was a couple out of the group, and they were sort of on the fringe of our group at that. But they were still people I would stand on the street corner bsing with.


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## JustJamie (Apr 24, 2006)

Sorry, but I cannot understand where you're coming from, blasting the OP like this.

She has tried talking to them, she has asked them to be quieter, she has asked them to move illegal activities to a less visible place, she has tried offering them a butt can, all before she called the cops. She tried working with them, they refused to work with her. It doesn't matter if they're black, white, or purple, if they're 10 or 100, etc. She approached them nicely about the issues she was having with them - the smoke, the noise, etc, and they refused to reach any sort of resolution with her. Calling the cops and filing a report was a last-straw measure, and I'm sure she would have done the same if it had been a group of obnoxious middle-aged women behaving the same way.

As far as the group being intimidating - any decent sized group of people acting a particular way - i.e., being loud, noisy, belligerent and obviously under the influence of *something* is intimidating. It's not the fact that these are teenagers dressed a particular way that makes them intimidating - it is the number of them and the way they are behaving. With a group of people, you run the risk of encountering the pack/mob mentality - one of them starts hassling you to impress his/her buddies and they all get in on it and escalate each other into a real problem. It may not happen "all the time" but it happens frequently enough to trigger an internal alarm in people who may feel vulnerable - i.e., someone walking alone or with a small child.


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## jrayn (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JustJamie* 
As far as the group being intimidating - any decent sized group of people acting a particular way - i.e., being loud, noisy, belligerent and obviously under the influence of *something* is intimidating. It's not the fact that these are teenagers dressed a particular way that makes them intimidating - it is the number of them and the way they are behaving. With a group of people, you run the risk of encountering the pack/mob mentality - one of them starts hassling you to impress his/her buddies and they all get in on it and escalate each other into a real problem. It may not happen "all the time" but it happens frequently enough to trigger an internal alarm in people who may feel vulnerable - i.e., someone walking alone or with a small child.









:
The OP didn't make any statements that made it sound like they were "intimidating" b/c of their dress. The fact that a group of people are together, smoking cigarettes and pot alone would be intimidating, the fact that they are brash enough to do that in a public place where other people walk shows that they are not worried about laws very much, which is also intimidating, the graffiti IS very unattractive, it looks like the area would be a beautiful place except all that crap.... It has nothing to do with their dress







:

Even if it was a group of 12 year old girls I would avoid the place and feel intimidated if they were doing what that group of older teenage boys are doing! I wouldn't have had the guts to talk to them, I wouldn't have been brave enough to confront the mom (for fear of what the teens may do after finding this out)
I would have just called the cops, no warnings at all!


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