# Broken neck from vaginal birth?



## minkajane (Jun 5, 2005)

Someone I work with insists that her grandmother had two 14-15 pound babies whose necks were broken by the birth because they were too big. I'm wondering if maybe that's just the explanation the docs gave for a stillbirth they didn't know the cause of and the weights were exaggerated.

Anyone ever heard of this?


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## ericswifey27 (Feb 12, 2005)

Never heard of it, not to say it's not true, but I'm a little bit skeptical.

Were the babies allowed to come out on their own and were they tugged out with forceps or hands? I just read a book highlighting the dangers of forceps and that came to mind...


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## Arwyn (Sep 9, 2004)

Broken neck from an attendant yanking and pulling I might believe, but other than that, nope. I'd want to see documentation before I filed that under anything other than "mangled ignorant thirdhand hearsay fearmongering".


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## Abibigail (Jan 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arwyn* 
Broken neck from an attendant yanking and pulling I might believe, but other than that, nope. I'd want to see documentation before I filed that under anything other than "mangled ignorant thirdhand hearsay fearmongering".









: It's incredibly sad that those babies died, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was an attendant trying to move thigns along then passing the blame onto Mother Nature.


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## tammyswanson (Feb 19, 2007)

The only true story I remember reading about with babies and broken necks was that quack doctor at Kaiser hospital that killed that poor little baby, it was a twin birth and they said that the 'doctor' was using a vacuum extractor and was actually "on the floor, pulling"! A poster said that the #$%$##$!! probably didn't wait for the baby to drop, as the first twin had come out with no problems.

I can't imagine a vaginal birth with a broken neck, at least without 'intervention' screwing something up.


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## minkajane (Jun 5, 2005)

I remember that story, Tammy. It was really sad. My older brother is legally blind in one eye and almost so in the other because of scarring from a forceps delivery.

She said this was back in (I think) the 20's. Were forceps common back then?


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## rixafreeze (Apr 30, 2006)

Forceps were very common in the 20s. Twilight sleep or other anesthesia + forceps + episiotomy was the norm for hospital births at that time.


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## Jane (May 15, 2002)

All I could think of was that california case. I can't imagine the mechanism to have a broken neck from an obstructed natural birth. Add forceps, and seems possible.


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## mamabadger (Apr 21, 2006)

I agree, it is quite possible if medical manhandling was part of the picture. My SIL was a vaginal breech birth (1950s) and had her leg broken by the overeager doctor in the process. The family has a picture of her as a newborn in a tiny cast.


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *minkajane* 

She said this was back in (I think) the 20's. Were forceps common back then?

Definitely. Before c-sections became safer forceps were the method of choice to get stuck babies out, including high forceps where the baby wasn't even engaged. I'm glad we have c-sections now, for those who need them.

And 14-15 pounds is really REALLY big.

Quote:

In 1920, Joseph DeLee further modified that instrument and advocated the prophylactic forceps delivery. In an era in which many women labored and delivered under heavy sedation, forceps deliveries became common.

In current obstetrical practice, the use of forceps has become much less common. ...

Other factors were also at work to decrease the use of forceps deliveries. In particular, the availability of blood products and greater choices in antibiotics helped make the cesarean delivery a safe alternative to operative vaginal deliveries. In the 1980s, information became available suggesting that some forceps deliveries (midforceps deliveries) may have been associated with long-term adverse consequences to the fetus. These factors combined to greatly reduce the appeal of forceps delivery.
http://www.emedicine.com/MED/topic3284.htm


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *minkajane* 
She said this was back in (I think) the 20's. Were forceps common back then?

I'm pretty sure the 20's was when DeLee was doing his experiments in cervical reconstruction that were tied in with his belief that women's bodies could not get babies out without help.

Ah yes:
Here's the reference (Page 179, if it doesn't take you straight there.)

If I ever meet one of his descendents, I will need to be reminded that it isn't actually possible to hurt someone badly enough that their ancestor feels it.


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## kltroy (Sep 30, 2006)

Right - from what I read, from about the 1920's - 1960's MOST births were with foreceps, twilight sleep etc. Basically doctors had the attitude that they could "save" mom the trouble of pushing by pulling the baby out for her. It resulted in a lot of mangled babies and a lot of very scarred moms (from episiotomy). It's very sad, but especially with a big baby born in this era, it wouldn't surprise me if a broken neck resulted.


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## sarahbay (Oct 30, 2003)

I was able to see "The Business of Being Born" movie the other night and it was sooooo great, I highly recommend it to everyone.

They actually had some pic of the "twilight" birth method. Horrifying. Truly nightmarish. I couldn't stop thinking about that one fact for days actually.

My grandma had all her babies that way. All 5 of them. I can't even imagine how terrible that was.

It's no wonder so many women scare other women about birth even still today.

And I can't believe that more is known about this tragic time in our history.

You know what, this was exactly the same time hat poor women were rushing to hospitals spending every penny they had for a hospital birth because they wanted all that medical knowledge and felt like they were getting poor care from having to have a midwife at home. HAHAHAHAHA


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## jennica (Aug 10, 2005)

Perhaps they were shoulder dystocias and instead of the doctor trying to unhook the shoulder, he probably left the mom flat on her back and yanked on the head with forceps, which of course with a 15 pound baby isn't going to budge if there was a shoulder dystocia. That's my guess.


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## liseux (Jul 3, 2004)

It sounds to me too like it could have been severe shoulder dystocias, with the doctor yanking on the baby too hard. That's exactly what could happen in a severe s.d. when the usual methods aren't tried. I know of two cases in the hospital where this happened.
But.. we weren't there, maybe the doctor tried everything, got nowhere and panicked. Its very sad, and unbelievably sad that it happened twice to the same woman.


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## ericswifey27 (Feb 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tammyswanson* 
The only true story I remember reading about with babies and broken necks was that quack doctor at Kaiser hospital that killed that poor little baby, it was a twin birth and they said that the 'doctor' was using a vacuum extractor and was actually "on the floor, pulling"! A poster said that the #$%$##$!! probably didn't wait for the baby to drop, as the first twin had come out with no problems.

I can't imagine a vaginal birth with a broken neck, at least without 'intervention' screwing something up.

I hadn't heard that story, that is so, so sad.

Seriously, what is up with Kaiser? So many women I know, me included







have had horrible births there.(minus my friend who hired an awesome doula, went back and had a kick-a#@ VBAC there







) But yeah, Kaiser is not good news, not the one near my home anyway.


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## angelcat (Feb 23, 2006)

My great grandma had a 12 lbs baby, at home. The dr. had to turn him. He broke the baby's leg, and I think fractured his skull getting him out. She should have had a c-section, I'd imagine, but this was early 1920's. I"m not sure if he was breech, or got stuck, and the dr. turned him so he wasn't pullign on his head?

The baby did die-last year sometime!!


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## tammyswanson (Feb 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ericswifey27* 
I hadn't heard that story, that is so, so sad.

Seriously, what is up with Kaiser? So many women I know, me included







have had horrible births there.(minus my friend who hired an awesome doula, went back and had a kick-a#@ VBAC there







) But yeah, Kaiser is not good news, not the one near my home anyway.

Maybe because they protect the quacks at Kaiser, the story said that they didn't even fire him, and he continued to 'practice' (yeah, he needs to practice, evidently) under so called close supervision, whatever THAT means. I'll see if I can find the article for you...un momentito...ok, here is the story, it's really sick..and very very sad.


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## RainbowEarthFaerie (Oct 11, 2006)

I don't know about necks, but DH's first son (with his ex) had his collar bone broken during labor. The drs weren't pulling or anything (it was her 5th baby, just "shot right out")


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