# S/O - People who ONLY feed their kids organic



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

So, the other thread reminds me of a conversation with a friend. Her daughter is at a preschool (a co-op type thing where the parents have to work sometimes) where a little boy's mom brings special snacks for him that are organic because he is not allowed to ingest anything that isn't organic. (She also brings his own bottled water instead of the tap water.) The preschool gives stuff like graham crackers and goldfish crackers and Wheat Thins and things for snacks. This mom brings the exact same basic stuff, only organic versions of it. Like Meijer brand versions of it, so not hugely different. So what happens is that, for instance, the other kids will be having goldfish crackers one day and her son will be having organic graham crackers that the mom brought, or whatever. What ends up happening is that some of the daycare kids decide they'd rather have what this little boy is having, and this little boy wants what the other kids are having. The kids end up fighting over snacks. They don't care whether the cheese crackers are shaped like fish or ducks, or whether the graham cracker box says "organic".

Is it worth the hassle? How important is it to get only organic foods?


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## elmh23 (Jul 1, 2004)

No it's not.


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## Areia (Mar 5, 2009)

In a situation like this, it is so NOT worth the hassle for me (although, I don't really like their choice of snacks, but that's another thread I guess...









Although, at home we avoid foods for DD that are really processed and/or contain HFCS and feed her organic as much as possible, we're not fanatic about it and some crackers a couple of times per week isn't a big deal at all, imo.


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## RunnerDuck (Sep 12, 2003)

When my son was smaller I was more intent on being the perfect parent - and I asked his preschool teacher if it would be OK if I sent healthier versions of snacks to school with him. It would have been OK but ultimately I decided not standing out was more important than eating 100% perfect 100% of the time.

(I also have to admit that sending healthier snacks would have been partly to make me feel like a more perfect parent, than out of really believing it was doing him much good, in most cases...)


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## mommariffic (Mar 18, 2009)

I was on an organic kick for awhile, and my bank account cringed each time I walked into Whole Foods needing a dozen things. I gave up on buying all organic, and have saved a lot of money. We still eat healthy [Paige does at least, I've been known to have a Cheeto craving now and than] but it's not all organic

I do buy organic milk and eggs, and meats, but that's it.

If I were rich, I guess I'd get ALL organic, but for things like crackers I say who cares!


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## funkymamajoy (May 25, 2008)

I don't want to single out my child like that. Or appear that I'm trying to "show up" the other parents. Besides, insisting that my child has a different snack is an unnecessary complication for the teacher.

A friend of mine growing up had very severe food allergies and she hated not being able to eat the same snack as everyone else. She wanted to eat what everyone else had and, of course, all the other kids wanted what she had.


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## waiflywaif (Oct 17, 2005)

Some things are very susceptible to harboring pesticides (like strawberries). I buy the organic versions for that reason. Other things, like bananas, are resistant and you peel them anyway so the conventional are just fine.

I kind of think it's silly to insist on organic versions of processed foods like cookies and crackers. The wheat in there was wheat a looong time ago.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

I wanted my ds to not have trans fats so I tried to send in food substitutes. It was a royal pia and the teachers weren't very good about following my request. They just didn't see that issue as important. I do like to feed him the dirty dozen organics so conventional apple juice would have bugged me, too. Fortunately they just had water with snacks. So I have sympathy with that mother though I also agree it's good for all the kids to be able to eat the same thing. But I wouldn't take it to that extreme.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Organic junk food is still junk food.

So frankly, I don't throw my money into the toilet by buying "organic" cheesy doodles.

And I don't buy everything just because it's got an organic label slapped on it. Ever checked the "product of" label on frozen organic veggies and snack crackers? Most of the time they're from China.

I do like junk food on occasion! If I'm going to indulge, I buy my favorites. What's the point of buying some less tasty product produced half a world away, and paying a premium for it?

But it doesn't bother me overmuch when people choose differently. If it makes THEM feel better, then that's what they should do! My only beef is when they decide to lecture me, in which case I show them the "product of" label, or a side by side comparison of the ingredients...which tends to shock a lot of people who are still in the "anything with an organic label is healthy" stage.

But, on the other hand, I probably make my friends want to tell me to shut up when I get on my "local is more important than certified organic" spiel, I'm probably as, if not more, obnoxious on that front than people who need to have organics down to the cheesy doodles. I do keep my mouth shut when someone is hosting a playdate or is otherwise providing hospitality, and if I'm going to complain about snacks I never do so unless I am cheerfully willing to fund/supply different ones.


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## sunny*pa*mom (Mar 28, 2008)

For us, ds2 gets organic junk food at school because most of the non-organic junk food has dyes and preservatives that turn him into an OCD/ADHD nightmare. It's bad enough he has to take his own snack every day so I do let him take the organic junk food so at least his snack is similar to the other kids. Just saying that maybe there is a reason that kid eats only organic.


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## nia82 (May 6, 2008)

Interesting points... We are not there yet, DS refused all solids so far, but we only offer organic foods.
Organic is quite pricey, and things like organic coffee I don't buy, I rather spend it on produce, meat, eggs and dairy than let's say organic nutella.
I don't know how we will handle school situations. I can see being singled out by other kids for this... But who knows what will happen in the future. I don't like snacks, I never had them as a kid, I always had fruit, veggies and a sandwhich as snacks? So I guess that is what DS will get to school.


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## vegemamato (Jul 4, 2007)

We do that







:

But, for other reasons.. we are vegan -which def limits the snacky foods we can have- and we have a lot of food allergies (gluten, corn, some fruit sugars, some citrus.. et cetera).

I also try to avoid artificial colors for the kids, and some preservatives (which would knock goldfish and wheat thins out- even without the allergies).

I prefer for my children to have organics but we have been buying convential produce lately due to financial issues..

Anyway, just sayin that I can see where the mom's coming from- and she may very well have other reasons behind her choice.

FWIW, I would never choose non-organic if there was a reasonable option- just as I wouldn't choose clothing from china when I can buy usa made (especially if my child wanted the 'china shirt' just to fit in).


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

I haven't read all of the replies, but all of the foods you listed that are being served at the preschool are full of stuff that I don't want my kids eating. Like High Fructose Corn Syrup and Hydrogenated oils. They are loaded with unhealthy fats and empty calories and carbs.

We DO have an obesity epidemic in this country, and children are getting diabetes at an alarming rate. I am sure that everyone here knows that 'Type 2 diabetes' used to be referred to as 'Adult Onset Diabetes'. That was because only older people used to get it. Now, so many kids are developing it that they changed the name to 'Type 2'.

The organic snacks are made with more quality ingredients and are healthier (less bad for you??) MAINLY because of what they DON'T have in them. THAT is why it is so important to many of us moms. We don't want our children to be overweight or develop health problems later in life as a result of their diet.

So yes, it is worth it, my kids are worth it!


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunny*pa*mom* 
For us, ds2 gets organic junk food at school because most of the non-organic junk food has dyes and preservatives that turn him into an OCD/ADHD nightmare. It's bad enough he has to take his own snack every day so I do let him take the organic junk food so at least his snack is similar to the other kids. Just saying that maybe there is a reason that kid eats only organic.

This is my older son!! He can't have red 40, and we recently found out he is intolerant to wheat and whey. They all make him act like a crazy person. I actually smelled his breath one time after he snuck something he wasn't supposed to have, because I was concerned that maybe he had drank alcohol!

So it could be that the kid is sensitive to certain dyes or preservatives that are not in the organic foods.


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## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

Junk foods/processed foods (like canned soups) are some of the things that I *do* buy organic....if only because they typically have more wholesome ingredients overall. Campbell's soups are all soybean oil and MSG. "Organic" wheat thins would still be crap food, but minus the synthetic preservatives and other chemicals.

But I've never made a big deal about eating organic, so no, I wouldn't make a fuss like that in a group setting. I used to have a friend who did just that, and all she did was set up her daughter for wanting everyone else's junk food. Now the kid is a teenager and eats what she pleases, anyway. Her mom realizes that she was choosing the wrong battles.


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## angelamariebee (Jun 20, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vegemamato* 
We do that







:

But, for other reasons.. we are vegan -which def limits the snacky foods we can have- and we have a lot of food allergies (gluten, corn, some fruit sugars, some citrus.. et cetera).

I also try to avoid artificial colors for the kids, and some preservatives (which would knock goldfish and wheat thins out- even without the allergies).

I prefer for my children to have organics but we have been buying convential produce lately due to financial issues..

Anyway, just sayin that I can see where the mom's coming from- and she may very well have other reasons behind her choice.

FWIW, I would never choose non-organic if there was a reasonable option- just as I wouldn't choose clothing from china when I can buy usa made (especially if my child wanted the 'china shirt' just to fit in).

This is what I'm thinking. I don't think I'll be able to avoid DD being "singled out" because we're vegetarians and she's dairy-sensitive. So she'll have different snacks, mostly likely. I think if they want to feed their kid only organic foods, that's their prerogative.

But if it were me, if the difference came down to ONLY organic/non-organic (not counting our other food issues) I wouldn't stress it.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *funkymamajoy* 
I don't want to single out my child like that. Or appear that I'm trying to "show up" the other parents. Besides, insisting that my child has a different snack is an unnecessary complication for the teacher.

A friend of mine growing up had very severe food allergies and she hated not being able to eat the same snack as everyone else. She wanted to eat what everyone else had and, of course, all the other kids wanted what she had.

This is NOT directed at you, FunkymamaJoy, but I really get frustrated when people think I am being a snob or a show off because we are very conscious about what we eat. People get offended because we bring our own meat to BBQ's. Like I should totally change the way my family eats to appease them. I am sorry but one bad burger from WinCo can kill a child. I know that this is extreme, but it is how I think. Also, it is a HUGE moral issue for me because I do not feel right buying/consuming meat unless I KNOW it was raised humanely. And don't even get me started on the evils of the meat packing industry







:

I don't think I am better than anyone else I am just trying to make the best choices for MY family. As far as 'Not fitting in with the main stream culture' ...GOOD!!!!!


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## Kappa (Oct 15, 2007)

I would only do that if my child was allergic or had some other type of negative reaction.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vegemamato* 
I also try to avoid artificial colors for the kids, and some preservatives (which would knock goldfish and wheat thins out- even without the allergies).

[snip]

Anyway, just sayin that I can see where the mom's coming from- and she may very well have other reasons behind her choice.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
I haven't read all of the replies, but all of the foods you listed that are being served at the preschool are full of stuff that I don't want my kids eating. Like High Fructose Corn Syrup and Hydrogenated oils. They are loaded with unhealthy fats and empty calories and carbs.

[snip]

The organic snacks are made with more quality ingredients and are healthier (less bad for you??) MAINLY because of what they DON'T have in them. THAT is why it is so important to many of us moms.b


Quote:


Originally Posted by *2xy* 
Junk foods/processed foods (like canned soups) are some of the things that I *do* buy organic....if only because they typically have more wholesome ingredients overall.

Exactly all that. Sometimes it's easier to grab the box of organic crackers than to stand in the aisle for 10 minutes reading all the boxes. And you can't count on others to not give your kid foods with a certain ingredient. It's so easy to misread even if they try. Much easier to say the child can only eat food labeled organic. Lord knows, the pre-k teacher thought I was a freak from hell for trying to keep trans fats from ds.


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## Panthira (Jun 13, 2005)

We try to do only organic here due to a number of allergies and food sensitivities. I cannot tell you how hard it is to bring special food in for my son when he goes to preschool. They have a snack mom, but they never supply *anything* my son can eat. We do organic, because a lot of spices and other stuff that is not organic tend to be made with gluten and/or dairy, without actually listing those ingredients. Even before we realized we had food allergies, we mostly used organic. There was study done a few years ago, where they tested children for PCB's (I think?). Every single child had an extreme amount of PCB's in their blood (which never leaves the sytem), except for one boy who was only fed organic food.


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## Panthira (Jun 13, 2005)

Study of Organic food vs. conventional


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
This is NOT directed at you, FunkymamaJoy, but I really get frustrated when people think I am being a snob or a show off because we are very conscious about what we eat. People get offended because we bring our own meat to BBQ's. Like I should totally change the way my family eats to appease them. I am sorry but one bad burger from WinCo can kill a child. I know that this is extreme, but it is how I think. Also, it is a HUGE moral issue for me because I do not feel right buying/consuming meat unless I KNOW it was raised humanely. And don't even get me started on the evils of the meat packing industry







:

I don't think I am better than anyone else I am just trying to make the best choices for MY family. As far as 'Not fitting in with the main stream culture' ...GOOD!!!!!

I would politely decline an invitiation to a barbecue rather than offend the hosts by turning up with my own meat. No, you don't have to change the way you eat to appease anyone, but it sure is rude to imply that their food is good enough for them but not good enough for you.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
I would politely decline an invitiation to a barbecue rather than offend the hosts by turning up with my own meat. No, you don't have to change the way you eat to appease anyone, but it sure is rude to imply that their food is good enough for them but not good enough for you.

Yeah, that is what we are doing these days. It is too bad that some people are so threatened by what we are eating.

But lets say that we didn't eat pork because of religious or cultural reasons. Lets say that we are invited to a BBQ where they will be serving ONLY pork, even though they know that we don;t eat pork. Are we being rude by bringing something that our family can eat, or is the host/ess being rude by not considering our dietary requirements? Or should we just stay home?

I am so frustrated that other people can't respect our choices, even if it is different from what they choose. I am not trying to say that anyone else is wrong, I just know what I DON'T awnt in MY body, and I guess that means I will be excluded from activities because I am making healthy choices. It reminds me of alcoholics who feel threatened by people who don't drink, because they think it draws attention to them and makes them look bad.

But we mostly hang with other families that eat the way we do to avoid issues. It is like we are becoming outcasts just because we choose to eat differently. I really hate it.


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## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
I would politely decline an invitiation to a barbecue rather than offend the hosts by turning up with my own meat. No, you don't have to change the way you eat to appease anyone, but it sure is rude to imply that their food is good enough for them but not good enough for you.

I disagree.

I think that anyone who cares enough about me to invite me to a BBQ is going to care that I'm happy and comfortable while I'm there.

However, I would approach it beforehand rather than surprise them with my own meat. "My family has some food issues. Would it be okay if we brought our own meat to grill?" They don't need to know what the "issues" are....and if they care enough to ask, it's perfectly possible to address things in a matter-of-fact way.

I think my friends would be more upset that I missed their party than if I brought my own food.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Well, I dunno. This can go both ways. Perhaps the host family thinks that you are rejecting their food (let's face it, you are, aren't you?). Some people take that personally. So you are upset because they are not serving the food you want, yet in order to make things more to your liking, you kind of have to reject their food as well.

I think food choices (vs. religious mandates) are a little different, because a family that does not eat pork for religious reasons is simply not going to eat ANY food that touched that grill. So they'd have to bring a side dish, not a replacement. And I think people are more inclined to be friendly towards "I am SO sorry, but it's against my religion's dietary laws to eat pork. Do you mind if I bring some baked beans/salad to share? Is there anything that you guys can't have (dairy, nuts, ect?)?"

When I have vegan friends over, I am careful to cook the vegan stuff totally separate from any meat/animal products (including carefully washing the utensils/cooking surfaces, if not cooking the vegan stuff first). Normally this comes up when a vegan acquaintance mentions their status when I invite them, I always welcome them to bring something but also let them know what I was thinking of preparing that's friendly to their diet. I've never had an issue with a BBQ though. Probably because I buy a half-steer in the fall from a reputable pasture/grass fed/family-slaughtered family ranch, and barter for local barnyard chickens raised by friends so the meat I serve to company is local, truly humanely raised and most importantly (to me) humanely slaughtered. If someone asked me about that, I feel I could reassure them. I will admit that if someone didn't say anything at all to me during the invitation but then showed up with duplicate meat while I would try hard not to show I was offended, it would feel like they were rejecting my hospitality. But I'm going to assume that everyone here would at least inform/ask about that first, and not just show up with it?


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
I would politely decline an invitiation to a barbecue rather than offend the hosts by turning up with my own meat. No, you don't have to change the way you eat to appease anyone, but it sure is rude to imply that their food is good enough for them but not good enough for you.

Or the hosts could be good hosts and do what all my friends and relatives do and offer either a separate grill or to clean their grill for my veg*n stuff. They often offer to buy the special items for me and/or make special versions of things. That's what a host does when a guest can't eat something provided.

Now if someone goes out to McDonald's regularly and then says "oh I can't eat your meat" then I could see being offended. Or if they brought some fancy cut of meat (is that the right term? I mean like steak) when everyone else was having hamburger. But "we choose to eat organic" is, in my mind, the same as not eating meat at all or only eating halal meat or not eating dairy within x hours of eating meat. It isn't better or worse than doing things another way, it just is.

If the need is known, as in going to a party held by a friend or relation, a good host will act to accommodate that need, a good guest will act to reduce the host's expense and trouble.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tigerchild* 

When I have vegan friends over, I am careful to cook the vegan stuff totally separate from any meat/animal products (including carefully washing the utensils/cooking surfaces, if not cooking the vegan stuff first). Normally this comes up when a vegan acquaintance mentions their status when I invite them, I always welcome them to bring something but also let them know what I was thinking of preparing that's friendly to their diet. I've never had an issue with a BBQ though. ..... I will admit that if someone didn't say anything at all to me during the invitation but then showed up with duplicate meat while I would try hard not to show I was offended, it would feel like they were rejecting my hospitality. But I'm going to assume that everyone here would at least inform/ask about that first, and not just show up with it?









Yeah that's how a good host does things.

And definitely assumed that people mentioned their food preferences and talked with the host about bringing their own food.


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## purplemoon (Sep 24, 2008)

Per the BBQ issue-

I was always taught to accept the gratiousness of your hosts humbly. Meaning, eat what you are served even if you want to vomit and thank them with a smile. Unless it is entirely against your ethics of course (I have declined raw endangered sea turtle eggs).

So, I have eaten some strange stuff (especially travelling the world). I might not clean my plate, but I try to show that I am thankful for them taking the time and effort to feed me. One time I didn't eat enough squid (at 7) and the japanese mother was still offended even though it took all my strength to eat squid (eyeballs and all).

I have shown up to BBQ's with marinated chicken breasts because I don't like red meat, but they have been pot-lucks and nobody cared, many were veggies anyway and weren't eating meat.

I think relationships are more important than once a month eating something I wouldn't buy. If I was against the ethics of the meat eaten, I would just eat the sides with a smile.

I have certain friends with varying degrees of allergies and meat sensitivities and plan accordingly. If it is a large BBQ, I will probably through on a couple tofu dogs for the main part of their meal (since I can't please everyone) and hope they enjoy the side dishes.

To me, it sounds like both the guest and the host are both making this more difficult than it needs to be.


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## beru (Nov 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
I haven't read all of the replies, but all of the foods you listed that are being served at the preschool are full of stuff that I don't want my kids eating. Like High Fructose Corn Syrup and Hydrogenated oils. They are loaded with unhealthy fats and empty calories and carbs.

We DO have an obesity epidemic in this country, and children are getting diabetes at an alarming rate. I am sure that everyone here knows that 'Type 2 diabetes' used to be referred to as 'Adult Onset Diabetes'. That was because only older people used to get it. Now, so many kids are developing it that they changed the name to 'Type 2'.

The organic snacks are made with more quality ingredients and are healthier (less bad for you??) MAINLY because of what they DON'T have in them. THAT is why it is so important to many of us moms. We don't want our children to be overweight or develop health problems later in life as a result of their diet.

So yes, it is worth it, my kids are worth it!

















:
Exactly this. I buy organic snacks not because they are organic but because they don't have partially hydrogenated oils (i.e. trans fats). Fig Newtons and Teddy Grahams have trans fats so I buy the organic brand. Cheez its and Nutrigrain bars do not have trans fats so I buy those instead of organic. Trans fats are not really a food. It's poison in small doses that kill us slowly over our lifetime. OK, maybe that's hyperbole... (And BTW, fully hydrogenated fats are not harmful the way partially hydrogenated ones are, although they are probably not as healthy as regular unaltered fats.)

I still let my son have the snacks at school. However, I am on the parent advisory board of the preschool and I encourage them to make healthier choices. Sometimes it works...

What I am really in a panic about is that I found out that the public schools here serve Trix yogurt! It makes me sweat.


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## chaoticzenmom (May 21, 2005)

I feed my kids organic, but not ONLY. I try not to buy any vegetables that aren't organic because of my hatred for Mansanto as well as trying to eat locally and ethically.

I find it ironic that so many parents who are so "organic" also vaccinate their children....such a disconnect there. They won't ingest any poisons, but are perfectly happy to inject them. Not all are like that of course, but it seems pretty common.

I've had those same feelings described here with meat. We try to eat ethically and buy locally. While we're getting pretty good at it, I have to put all those feelings aside when we go to someone else's house unless I want to be vegan outside the home and omnivore only in my own home. The better we get at eating humanely, the more it bothers me to eat meat outside of our own home.


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## annethcz (Apr 1, 2004)

On one hand, I think that organic junk food is still junk food.

OTOH, one of the things I hate about my kids' school is that they have shared snacks. A different child brings a snack for the whole class each day. Despite the fact that the school asks students to bring "healthy" snacks, so many of the snacks are pure junk. I don't mind if my child has a fruit roll up once in a while, but I would prefer that they weren't offered that kind of stuff every day. I have been hugely tempted to opt out of the class snacks because of this issue. But in the end I've decided to just let it go...


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## accountclosed2 (May 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
I would politely decline an invitiation to a barbecue rather than offend the hosts by turning up with my own meat. No, you don't have to change the way you eat to appease anyone, but it sure is rude to imply that their food is good enough for them but not good enough for you.

We don't eat chicken or pork, especially not barbecued. To us this is a health issue, as DH and I both got severe food poisoning a couple of years ago after a barbecue. It is simple, we do not eat it. And if we are invited to a barbecue, we will bring our own meat (organic if we can afford it and source it), because pork sausages and chicken is what usually will be served. We only do this if we know our hosts (often MIL) will provide a small part of the barbecue for our needs, otherwise we'll eat vegetarian.

I am not prepared to get sick in order to be polite, as a previous poster suggested.

And I also choose organic junkfood over non-organic, because of the additives.

I always find it interesting that by doing something not mainstream I am rejecting others choices (according to some people). With that logic I should stuff a dummy in DDs mouth at my parents house (because all babies need to learn to suck on dummies and be quiet), I shouldn't breastfeed at a friend's house because she formula-feeds, and prefers that everyone else does too and I shouldn't take my baby to the potty at another friend's house (despite DD hating wet diapers), because she thinks babies should "be allowed to be babies". Sorry, I just avoid seeing people who won't respect _my_ choices (I don't think I am asking too much here, as _I_ respect their choices).


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## Anglyn (Oct 25, 2004)

No offense to anyone, but if I have to cook four diffrent meals to appease everyone, Im not throwing the party to start with!! I agree with the pp who said, try and have a variety for everyone. Or a potluck even. I also was raised that you eat it and thank them. Some cultrues are very offended if you refuse thier hospitality. Ive eaten food so spicy it made me practially cry and managed to smile! But thats a little diffrent than a get togather with friends and family. I know when the last get togather I threw I purchased lots of fresh raw veggies and dip, fruit, whole wheat crackers with hummas as the spread, made a plate of cheeses etc and my sil brought some very delicious, but loaded with transfat creampuffs she just bought on the way over. I ate a few and after the party, when she was gone, tossed the rest. But I thanked her for bringing them. I dont think shes ever given a thought to things like trans fat.

I have IBS and if I eat the wrong thing it can be very bad for my tummy. More than once Ive made a meal of the side dishes or ate very little becuase of the menu. So I do see both sides.

After the second time we had a work training day where the lunch provide was uneatable to me, and I mean ALL of it, I did say something, discreetly to one of the planners who happens to be a friend. I know for a fact one of my other coworkers also has IBS and couldnt eat it either. Another time there was this big ice cream bar (I cant do diary) and I would not have minded simply missing out at all (done it before) but several of the people who planned it couldnt do diary and provided themselves alternatives!!!! I felt like if it was an issue for them, they could easily have asked staff if it were an issue for anyone else and plan accordingly.

I have to admit, I sometimes feel like those around me are like drug pushers!! I cant tell you how many times I get told oh just eat it,just this once, oh live a little etc, even though I said I CANT. They dont see the hours of agony that will occur later.

while we are on the subject, I try to eat a lot of chicken and pork as opposed to red meat. How do you know if the meat was raised and slaughtered humanely? BEcuase I would be all about that, I didnt realize I had options! Before dh, I really didnt do red meat at all but he works at a very physical job and he craves it so I try and compromise with red meat two to three times a week. Do you just buy kosher? Is there a website to find local producers?


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## jeanine123 (Jan 7, 2005)

Try typing grass fed or pasture fed beef into Google along with your location.


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## purplemoon (Sep 24, 2008)

There are great farms more than willing to sell half cows and whole. The half cows obviously will need to be split with someone or a small freezer. A whole cow means a big freezer.

I eat red meat now (hubby loves it) and that is the only way I will do it. You get prime rib, ribs, steaks, ground beef, beef bones etc. for a low price. Pasture fed with nice (if short) lives. I like cows and I hate seeing them standing in mounds of their own excrement.

So I know what it is like to go to a BBQ and not eat the meat. I hardly do anyway. I am so fickle that I would never bother a host/ess with my feelings. I am more than respectfull of my friend who is allergic to poultry and his wife who is a vegetarian. I have vegan friends. I have a friend that hates pork. If this is a large barbie, tofu dogs. I can't make that many meals.

It is the polite thing to do to be gracious, but as I see it, if they are regular friends, people get it. The next time they will say, hey, I got you organic grass-fed free range beef for you! I know I would, that is part of friendship. So I see the host/ess not really noticing your needs. Bringing food is just a little rude. They are trying to serve you, to show you their love for you with the food. Perhaps it is cultural, I don't know, but you allow it and smile. You don't bring your own (unless potluck).

Now I have been stuck in many a place where I was surrounded (south U.S) with mayonaisse based salads and fried KFC and nothing to eat. Nothing. People eventually noticed (as I politely said I wasn't a fan of mayo but it's ok) and the next time they made macaroni salad with no mayonaisse. Meaning, it was just boiled mac made just for me. I was more impressed with them caring than the fact that it was disgusting. And I ate a small portion of it and really, came away thinking how nice to think of me.

To me, and how I was raised, food is a gift to recieve. You know those people who aren't happy with their presents? Or the people that ask for the receipt? To some, rejecting food is like that. But, if you know how to talk to people, you can let them know what you really like, and they will be happy to accomidate.

It is such a cultural thing though.


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## bugginsmom (Aug 4, 2005)

I agree that it is about the ingredients that are NOT in the organic versions of things. We don't consumer food dyes, trans fat, MSG, HFCS, sulfates or nitrates. I send my ds with a snack to school. It's not about anyone else's choices, it is about what I believe is best for *my* child, based on his specific needs. I have that right to not feed him things that I find nutritionally inferior, just because the rest of the crowd is eating it.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AislinCarys* 
I am not prepared to get sick in order to be polite, as a previous poster suggested.











What poster suggested that?

I've not even seen anyone suggest that someone should eat something they don't want to, just saying that their feelings might be hurt if someone showed up with a near-identical replacement and the attitude that the host's stuff just wasn't good enough for them.

As multiple others have suggested, sometimes it's in how you present it. If I had any cross contamination concerns, why would I even bring "my own" stuff unless I brought my own grill? Perhaps I'm overthinking it though, the last time I had to deal with anything like that was when I had to cut out all gluten. In that case, I rarely could eat anything but an undressed salad, but people were kind and understanding when I privately explained what was going on.

Though admittedly, I think it is probably harder for people to explain "I don't like generic beef", than "I have a gluten sensitivity." I think it's also easier for people to understand veg*ism as well, because you're rejecting ALL meat/animal products, not bringing your own near-identical meat product.

I don't understand why it's not understandable that SOME hosts who are otherwise sane and kind people might feel offended at that (at least in private). It seems like a reasonable offense, which you then quickly and reasonably just shrug off and let go because you enjoy your friend and everyone has their preferences.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

In the situation mentioned, I would probably discuss it with the teacher so my child gets the same thing as the other kids only organic.

There are a whole wack of chemicals that I'd rather DD and DS not ingest that are on non-organic foods. There are also a whole wack of ethical issues surrounding non-organic foods and for the most part dh and I would rather not support many of the practices that take place in non-organic farms.


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## nudhistbudhist (Jan 13, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
This is NOT directed at you, FunkymamaJoy, but I really get frustrated when people think I am being a snob or a show off because we are very conscious about what we eat. People get offended because we bring our own meat to BBQ's. Like I should totally change the way my family eats to appease them. I am sorry but one bad burger from WinCo can kill a child. I know that this is extreme, but it is how I think. Also, it is a HUGE moral issue for me because I do not feel right buying/consuming meat unless I KNOW it was raised humanely. And don't even get me started on the evils of the meat packing industry







:

I don't think I am better than anyone else I am just trying to make the best choices for MY family. As far as 'Not fitting in with the main stream culture' ...GOOD!!!!!
















:

We raise our own meat, veggies and milk goats. After years of this, I can't stomack mushy, bland grocery store chicken and pale watery eggs. Not to mention, the WAY food is raised. To eat something that was treated so disrespectfully while it was alive (plants and animals) is to feed your soul with negativity and destruction. Anything that we dont raise we buy organic. Yes, its expensive (especiallly farming it yourself) but at least when you pay that higher price you are paying the full socio-enviro cost. If you are buying cheap food, someone else may be paying the rest of the cost, with their health or even life.

As far as the mom buying orgainc version of the same junk food the preschool serves, perhaps she is trying to find a compromise. Buying the organic version of the same thing so that her child doesnt stand out like some of you seem to be worried about. I dont care if my kid stands out... he should! He's not being raised like the majority of his peers! We want to show him that every action matters.


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## rootzdawta (May 22, 2005)

I don't eat meat but if I did, I wouldn't bring my own meat to a BBQ unless I was bringing enough for everyone to sample and/or I was doing a special spin on it or something. If I didn't want to eat the meat they are serving, I wouldn't. I'd eat whatever else is available.

As for snacks, I agree, organic generally means no extra stuff that I don't want in my child's body: HFCS, preservatives, etc. Is it worth the hassle? I think so . . . especially if it's an everyday kind of thing. I think I would just try to coordinate better the snacks and/or send along two types of snacks and explain to my child or his teacher that if his classmates are eating snack A, give son snack A. If they're eating snack B, give him snack B. I'd hope the teachers would respect my wishes and I think that could be a workable solution.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Anglyn* 
while we are on the subject, I try to eat a lot of chicken and pork as opposed to red meat. How do you know if the meat was raised and slaughtered humanely? BEcuase I would be all about that, I didnt realize I had options! Before dh, I really didnt do red meat at all but he works at a very physical job and he craves it so I try and compromise with red meat two to three times a week. Do you just buy kosher? Is there a website to find local producers?

Anglyn, it can be hard to find a farmer who genuinely sells humanely slaughtered meat. That is one of the reasons why I really have a big problem with the large commercial organic meats industry. So many times those animals are kept in the same conditions as factory farms minus the antibiotics and slightly different feed, and then they're shipped off to the same slaughering plants as the non-organic meat animals.

Having visited a standard slaughterhouse and been part of commercial beef and poultry operations (the regular kind) I will not eat meat, even organic meat, that has not been slaughtered to my standards.

For me, that means a one animal at a time operation. Preferably in a mobile slaughtering trailer (so that the animals are not crushed into trucks and forced to endure hours or days of terrifying transportation--they're slaughtered where they were raised, in a trailer they can walk to). Depending on where you are that can be very hard to find, and unfortunately because that also means that the production volume is a lot lower, it makes the meat very expensive. (we only eat about 1 or 2 meals a week with meat).

The vast majority of organic meat comes from animals that were slaughtered in the same environment as standard. Much of the time how they were raised was no different than standard factory farming either--it's just that they were given organic feed. This is PARTICULARLY true of the poultry industry.

Since my objection to factory farming comes largely from animal suffering concerns, I really don't see an ethical difference between a factory farm that feeds their animals organic feed and lets sick animals die in their crates or in the feedlot instead of medicating them, and one that adds in antibiotics and non-organic feed. An operation with 30,000 organic chickens still produces the same amount of noxious waste as non-organic ones. The cow butchered in a standard processing facility suffers the same terror and pain no matter what operation fattened her up.

Now that I've gone on my spiel, I suppose that is why when I have heard people bragging about eating all organic store bought meat from a factory farm that paid the USDA to get their label, and who is deceptive in some of their terms (most notoriously "free range"), I get a little grumpy. You will not find organic meat at my house. You will find genuinely free range, slaughtered at the farm with minimal suffering, locally produced meat (because I won't buy from people where I'm not welcome to visit the operation).

However, it is a *privledge* that I have access to something like this. Not everyone does, and I totally understand it. My state has at least two truly grass fed cattle operations, probably a few good poultry operations (since I have a friend who I can barter with, I haven't researched it all that much), several raw dairies (cow and goat), ect...and they're all within a 3 hour drive and many within an hour. Are there many areas of the country where that's true? I don't think so. Which is why I don't look down on people doing the best that they can.

But it's also why hearing people look down on others for not having "all organic" really drives me up a wall. I know the meat industry pretty well (one of my majors was Animal/Poultry Science!), and just because it's "organic" doesn't mean it's less diseased, isn't cross contaminated, or was treated humanely from birth until death.


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## *Erin* (Mar 18, 2002)

well if there were no sensitivities to anything, i'd stop because it was creating a disturbance, and i'd let my LO eat the preschool snacks with everyone else. i buy wheat thins myself. that just isn't a big deal for me. we eat a well rounded, local, seasonal, mostly fresh veg and fruit-full,, lots of nuts and fish and chicken diet. i don't sweat it if the kids have a sip of juicy juice and some cheese crackers if that's what's served, and they are with friends. i do notice my dd turns into a, ah, handful if she eats anything blue, so i try and steer her away from anything with large amounts of it...other than that, i don't mind.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *purplemoon* 
Per the BBQ issue-

I was always taught to accept the gratiousness of your hosts humbly. Meaning, eat what you are served even if you want to vomit and thank them with a smile. Unless it is entirely against your ethics of course (I have declined raw endangered sea turtle eggs).

So, I have eaten some strange stuff (especially travelling the world). I might not clean my plate, but I try to show that I am thankful for them taking the time and effort to feed me. One time I didn't eat enough squid (at 7) and the japanese mother was still offended even though it took all my strength to eat squid (eyeballs and all).

I have shown up to BBQ's with marinated chicken breasts because I don't like red meat, but they have been pot-lucks and nobody cared, many were veggies anyway and weren't eating meat.

I think relationships are more important than once a month eating something I wouldn't buy. If I was against the ethics of the meat eaten, I would just eat the sides with a smile.

I have certain friends with varying degrees of allergies and meat sensitivities and plan accordingly. If it is a large BBQ, I will probably through on a couple tofu dogs for the main part of their meal (since I can't please everyone) and hope they enjoy the side dishes.

To me, it sounds like both the guest and the host are both making this more difficult than it needs to be.

that was well said, mama. i agree. i also was taught, and i teach my little people to be gracious hosts/hostesses, and to be good guests.

i always ask about sensitivities/preferences beforehand if im having people over and i know they'll be eating with us, but not everyone does this, or is able to prepare several different meals for a large group.

if I or my kids had allergies or sensitivities or preferences to certain things, i would let the hosts know beforehand, casually, and let them know i'd bring along whatever it is that we and the kids are able to eat. i would not mention the organic thing-you can be vague about it. it does imply that your friends' food is not good enough for you. i would go and bring what you like, because i'm sure your friends would rather have you come and bring some meat or something than not come at all.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

I just want to mention, to the BBQ thing. As someone with lots of friends who have allergies/intolerences/ethical problems with some foods, it's not as difficult as it sounds to cater to everyone, it just takes planning and knowing what every one can and can't eat. I do consider it my duty as the host, to ensure that everyone attending it able to eat something they are able and comfortable enough to eat.


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## MG01 (Nov 17, 2008)

We too are vegan, so it would be hard to avoid having different snacks anyway. I do try to buy organics as far as fruits and veggies which contain higher levels of pesticides (but things like avocado, bananas, etc. I will buy conventional), and am more strict about it because I am nursing now. I don't eat all/only organic for reasons mostly of finance and because I don't think it is necessary for some products as stated (although if I could afford it in all cases, I would surely rather support it for environmental and moral reasons) but I try to prioritize the foods with more risk.

I do think that the food we put into our bodies is significant, and would not go along with foods I did not feel were safe/acceptable just for me/my son to fit in.

However, I am somewhat conflicted, since my brother growing up was diabetic and had to have his own snacks and such, and my mom says it was difficult for her and she felt that it was difficult for him as well, and would not wish that on anyone- I will have to ask him how he felt sometime, actually.

The thing is, in most mainstream public settings, our family's choices _will_ stand out, and not just the veganism/organics, so I have to prepare my son for that and try to surround my son with other families who share some of our views so he is not always going to be the odd one out. (He's a baby now, but as he gets older, I mean). I also plan to homeschool, so I am hoping such issues will be minimized, but if I did send him to daycare or school for some reason I would try to choose one whose values and food choices and such were as close as possible to our views and choices- of course sometimes this is not an option, but in the case of the OP example, I would try to find an option which offered healthier and/or organic snacks, and if that was not do-able, I would continue to send different foods if I felt it was important for my child's health.

The issue of kids fighting and feeling bad is a tough one though- I would not want to do something that would cause my child to be ostracized or cause conflict, but at the same time, I have to make choices that I deem healthiest and safest for my family.

I would of course want to discuss such things with my child in advance and have ongoing discussions about such things so that he could could discuss these issues when I was not around and have a sense of _why_ he is eating differently than the others, and start to think about these issues on his own.

There are plenty of circumstances where this might come up among children- religious dietary laws, diabetes, allergies, vegetarian/veganism, etc. I think it could serve as a good lesson in diversity and tolerance, a learning experience.


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## OakBerry (May 24, 2005)

I buy organic "dirty dozen" stuff, as well as some organic "junk food".
Simply because ds goes ballistic when he ingests food dyes, and I don't like hfcs or polysorbate 80. It's pretty hard to buy mainstream kid snacks (like fruit roll ups, cheese puffs) that don't have that crap in it. At least the "organic" versions use plain sugar, no preservatives and little or no dyes.
If he's at a party, or a school thing, he can have what the other kids have, but at home, and if I pack a snack, it's a cleaner version.

I pretty much don't give a rat's behind if people think I'm a snob for it either.
Anyone who's witnessed me peeling my kid off the wall after he's had blue or red food would understand.


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## runes (Aug 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
So, the other thread reminds me of a conversation with a friend. Her daughter is at a preschool (a co-op type thing where the parents have to work sometimes) where a little boy's mom brings special snacks for him that are organic because he is not allowed to ingest anything that isn't organic. (She also brings his own bottled water instead of the tap water.) The preschool gives stuff like graham crackers and goldfish crackers and Wheat Thins and things for snacks. This mom brings the exact same basic stuff, only organic versions of it. Like Meijer brand versions of it, so not hugely different. So what happens is that, for instance, the other kids will be having goldfish crackers one day and her son will be having organic graham crackers that the mom brought, or whatever. What ends up happening is that some of the daycare kids decide they'd rather have what this little boy is having, and this little boy wants what the other kids are having. The kids end up fighting over snacks. They don't care whether the cheese crackers are shaped like fish or ducks, or whether the graham cracker box says "organic".

Is it worth the hassle? How important is it to get only organic foods?

I would not send my child to a preschool that served goldfish and wheat thins as "snacks"...I put that term in quotes because I don't think of those kinds of foods as snacks, but as junk.

Yeah, I'm a food snob. Guilty as charged, and proud of it, too.

Having worked in several preschools, including preschools for children with special needs (who often have food allergies and sensitivities), I've seen first hand how the differing snack situation can be easily and smoothly handled by competent staff. If the children in the OP's scenario are fighting over the food, it is very clearly a problem caused by poor supervision during snack time, NOT by the one mom's food choices.

Is it worth the "hassle" to provide my child with nutritious food free of chemicals, additives, preservatives and artificial flavors/colors?

ABSOLUTELY, and I do so happily.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tigerchild* 









<respectfully snipped>
I don't understand why it's not understandable that SOME hosts who are otherwise sane and kind people might feel offended at that (at least in private). It seems like a reasonable offense, which you then quickly and reasonably just shrug off and let go because you enjoy your friend and everyone has their preferences.

This is what I think. It sucks that we don't want to eat what they are serving, but we aren't being judgmental and just want to enjoy some time with our friends. I would feel a bit slighted at first, but I would get over it!
Many times I do choke down some meat that isn't what I would normally buy, but it makes me want to vomit. I do it to make my friends feel better.

I just refuse to do that with my children, though, because they would have a much harder time fighting off a food borne illness. Especially since they have always had local/free range/antibiotic free meat.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
In the situation mentioned, I would probably discuss it with the teacher so my child gets the same thing as the other kids only organic.

There are a whole wack of chemicals that I'd rather DD and DS not ingest that are on non-organic foods. There are also a whole wack of ethical issues surrounding non-organic foods and for the most part dh and I would rather not support many of the practices that take place in non-organic farms.

Thanks for putting it all in a nutshell, MusicianDad!!


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
I just want to mention, to the BBQ thing. As someone with lots of friends who have allergies/intolerances/ethical problems with some foods, it's not as difficult as it sounds to cater to everyone, it just takes planning and knowing what every one can and can't eat. I do consider it my duty as the host, to ensure that everyone attending it able to eat something they are able and comfortable enough to eat.

Thank You!

I would think that it would be a huge help to you if a family offered to bring their own stuff, if they weren't able to eat what you were serving. I can't believe how offended my friend of 20 YEARS was when I told her I was bringing my own meat to her BBQ (Burgers and dogs...same as everyone else was eating)
I felt like she didn't care about my family's comfort /needs


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## purplemoon (Sep 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
This is what I think. It sucks that we don't want to eat what they are serving, but we aren't being judgmental and just want to enjoy some time with our friends. I would feel a bit slighted at first, but I would get over it!
Many times I do choke down some meat that isn't what I would normally buy, but it makes me want to vomit. I do it to make my friends feel better.

I just refuse to do that with my children, though, because they would have a much harder time fighting off a food borne illness. Especially since they have always had local/free range/antibiotic free meat.

I am saying this to be helpful for in the future. Not something you want to do now per se.

I suffered a very sensitive stomach and got food poisoning all.the.time as a kid. It was so rough, it was, well, horrible.

My other family members never got it. I started figuring things out and did a personal experiment which worked!

My dad was a person that seriously could and would eat rotting meat. He was raised very poor and he kept the mentality, even when soup was bubbling on its own in the fridge. Mold? eh. Old meat? eh. Maggots in the flour? eh. Drinking from streams teaming with Giardia? eh.

My father has never, ever, ever been sick. He could suck down sewage and probably burp and be fine. Honestly, he eats spiders and sick things for fun. So as a college student suffering my latest bout I wondered. I mean, you leave your meat out for 10 minutes and I spend the next two days losing my guts. Been hospitalized twice. Checked for botulism once as I was delirious.

So, as a teen with my own apartment, I started leaving food out for longer and longer. Eventually, it got to the point that I could leave food out for 12 hours and still not get sick! I now have not had a single food poisoning episode in 12 years. This from someone who got it at least every 6 months.

Sometimes the gut needs to learn how to deal with it, learn how to attack and get used to the bacteria.

For kids? No, I wouldn't risk that experiment. They can get so bad so fast, but if they keep struggling with that, it is something to consider in the future. Kids should be able to eat meat that is cooked to the proper temperature without getting sick.

Plus, honestly, it isn't the free range chicken without ABX that is keeping your kids safe, it is the heat that the chicken reaches. At a certain temp all bacteria basically die. Even free range chicken have bacteria (it is because their bowels are filled with it just like you and me and gutting them spreads it). So it isn't the meat that you choose that is helping them avoid the illnesses, it is how you are preparing it- ie cooked well, cleaned appliances and knives and surfaces.


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## purplemoon (Sep 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
Thank You!

I would think that it would be a huge help to you if a family offered to bring their own stuff, if they weren't able to eat what you were serving. I can't believe how offended my friend of 20 YEARS was when I told her I was bringing my own meat to her BBQ (Burgers and dogs...same as everyone else was eating)
I felt like she didn't care about my family's comfort /needs

How did you put it? I can't imagine that if you explained it well and said, "oh, well you don't have to worry about the expense as I can bring my own meat", she would be offended! As a hostess I would say not to bother as I would buy you the meat that you wanted, as a hostess that is what I want to do. But if she couldn't afford it, she should have said, oh, well sure, why not?

Maybe it wasn't worded well, you know?


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
Thank You!

I would think that it would be a huge help to you if a family offered to bring their own stuff, if they weren't able to eat what you were serving. I can't believe how offended my friend of 20 YEARS was when I told her I was bringing my own meat to her BBQ (Burgers and dogs...same as everyone else was eating)
I felt like she didn't care about my family's comfort /needs

I'd probably only be upset because I'd feel like I didn't do my job if you had to bring your own meat. I wouldn't be horribly offended though.


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## Cekimon (Feb 3, 2008)

I don't feed only organic foods but have a mommy-friend that I have met in our partners n play classes (pre school like activities but mommies stay the whole time and the kids are younger... like 12-36 months with specific age groups) ANYWAY... she doesn't bring special snacks and I know she's 100% organic at home. That seems like it would be a huge hassle. I would have an issue if someone brought something that was clearly junk food. I'm not a fan of crackers in general because DS always will eat them non stop and avoid the fruit or veggie and I'm really not a fan of the salty ones or the Ritz type. But if someone else brings them (parents sign up and take turns bringing snack based on a suggested list from school) I don't make a huge fuss over making him avoid that food. The class isn't five days a week and to me, what's most important is how we eat at home and what foods we stock in our kitchen.


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

I will buy the organic "junk food" sometimes simply b/c the list of ingredients is better.

Ds has a balanced diet and I allow a certain bit of "junk food" (except in this house we call them snack foods). I was tempted by a case of Otter pops at Safeway today, until I realized it was all HFCS and dye. But, in this house, goldfish are our friends









I am a conscientious shopper but maybe I'm not as strict about snacks as other parents. Basically anything in the Trader Joes snack aisle can be sent as a snack in ds' lunch box. And occassionally Wheat Thins or Goldfish if we don't feel like driving across town to TJ's. Of course, there are also carrots and fruit in there, too.


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

I used to be vegetarian and I would bring my own pack of veggie burgers to BBQ's. But I don't think I would bring the same food of higher quality to a bbq. I would just eat the side dishes.

I've had someone tsk-tsk me b/c the chicken I was serving was not free-range and that did not feel good. I believe in the importance of what we eat and how we spend our money on food, but I've been exposed to food snobbery and I detest it.

Just last week this sentence was said to me: " Cost is no issue, I wouldn't even think of putting something from a conventional grocery store in my mouth, much less swallowing". I wanted to gag.

This was at a Whole Foods luncheon with their marketing executives. The experience made me want to avoid Whole Foods. I can get by with the farmer's market and TJ's and not deal with that kind of attitude.

ETA: I'm not accusing anyone on here of being a snob. It's just that I would not be comfortable showing up with a higher quality food item specifically for me and my family.


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## funkymamajoy (May 25, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nudhistbudhist* 
Buying the organic version of the same thing so that her child doesnt stand out like some of you seem to be worried about. I dont care if my kid stands out... he should! He's not being raised like the majority of his peers! We want to show him that every action matters.

I would rather my children stand out for who they are and the choices they make, then because I made them eat weird food at preschool. If/when they start making food choices based on ethical or health reasons, then I will provide them with food they prefer. Right now, my oldest is only 4 and organic food isn't on his radar but being singled out at school is.


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## Anglyn (Oct 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tigerchild* 
Anglyn, it can be hard to find a farmer who genuinely sells humanely slaughtered meat. That is one of the reasons why I really have a big problem with the large commercial organic meats industry. So many times those animals are kept in the same conditions as factory farms minus the antibiotics and slightly different feed, and then they're shipped off to the same slaughering plants as the non-organic meat animals.

Having visited a standard slaughterhouse and been part of commercial beef and poultry operations (the regular kind) I will not eat meat, even organic meat, that has not been slaughtered to my standards.

For me, that means a one animal at a time operation. Preferably in a mobile slaughtering trailer (so that the animals are not crushed into trucks and forced to endure hours or days of terrifying transportation--they're slaughtered where they were raised, in a trailer they can walk to). Depending on where you are that can be very hard to find, and unfortunately because that also means that the production volume is a lot lower, it makes the meat very expensive. (we only eat about 1 or 2 meals a week with meat).

The vast majority of organic meat comes from animals that were slaughtered in the same environment as standard. Much of the time how they were raised was no different than standard factory farming either--it's just that they were given organic feed. This is PARTICULARLY true of the poultry industry.

Since my objection to factory farming comes largely from animal suffering concerns, I really don't see an ethical difference between a factory farm that feeds their animals organic feed and lets sick animals die in their crates or in the feedlot instead of medicating them, and one that adds in antibiotics and non-organic feed. An operation with 30,000 organic chickens still produces the same amount of noxious waste as non-organic ones. The cow butchered in a standard processing facility suffers the same terror and pain no matter what operation fattened her up.

Now that I've gone on my spiel, I suppose that is why when I have heard people bragging about eating all organic store bought meat from a factory farm that paid the USDA to get their label, and who is deceptive in some of their terms (most notoriously "free range"), I get a little grumpy. You will not find organic meat at my house. You will find genuinely free range, slaughtered at the farm with minimal suffering, locally produced meat (because I won't buy from people where I'm not welcome to visit the operation).

However, it is a *privledge* that I have access to something like this. Not everyone does, and I totally understand it. My state has at least two truly grass fed cattle operations, probably a few good poultry operations (since I have a friend who I can barter with, I haven't researched it all that much), several raw dairies (cow and goat), ect...and they're all within a 3 hour drive and many within an hour. Are there many areas of the country where that's true? I don't think so. Which is why I don't look down on people doing the best that they can.

But it's also why hearing people look down on others for not having "all organic" really drives me up a wall. I know the meat industry pretty well (one of my majors was Animal/Poultry Science!), and just because it's "organic" doesn't mean it's less diseased, isn't cross contaminated, or was treated humanely from birth until death.

ONe trip to a diary farm cured me of milk(even before I became lactose intolerant). Im sure a slaughter house would give me nightmares.I live on a small farm and we raise chickens, I cannot stand store bought eggs! Now, I drive past a really large ranch everyday, its got to be three hundered acres if its one. Its huge, and the cows are spread all over it, they have real ponds for drinking in additon to the water troughs. No idea what they are fed, but they look happy with TONS of room to roam, shade trees to lounge under etc and babie are with the mamas! (not so on a diary farm, dont get me started!). I have thought Id love to know THATS where my meat comes from, of course I wasnt thinking about the slaughter houses.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *runes* 
I would not send my child to a preschool that served goldfish and wheat thins as "snacks"...I put that term in quotes because I don't think of those kinds of foods as snacks, but as junk.

Yeah, I'm a food snob. Guilty as charged, and proud of it, too.

Having worked in several preschools, including preschools for children with special needs (who often have food allergies and sensitivities), I've seen first hand how the differing snack situation can be easily and smoothly handled by competent staff. If the children in the OP's scenario are fighting over the food, it is very clearly a problem caused by poor supervision during snack time, NOT by the one mom's food choices.

Is it worth the "hassle" to provide my child with nutritious food free of chemicals, additives, preservatives and artificial flavors/colors?

ABSOLUTELY, and I do so happily.

I work with kids age three and under and do have several that I see at thier daycares and sometimes Im there at snack time. Im horrified by what I see. I dont think Ive EVER seen a nutritious one. One that I go into they always have water and saltine crackers. They told me one day that it was cheese and crackers, but I didnt see any cheese. When its juice, its not even real juice. Or its cookies and I mean the cheap generic ones. I dont think Ive ever seen fruit, not even canned fruit given. I also see kids asking for more food or drink and often as not told its gone. There isnt any more. No wonder they go home starving. Lunch is jsut about as bad.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hoopin' Mama* 
I used to be vegetarian and I would bring my own pack of veggie burgers to BBQ's. But I don't think I would bring the same food of higher quality to a bbq. I would just eat the side dishes.

I've had someone tsk-tsk me b/c the chicken I was serving was not free-range and that did not feel good. I believe in the importance of what we eat and how we spend our money on food, but I've been exposed to food snobbery and I detest it.

Just last week this sentence was said to me: " Cost is no issue, I wouldn't even think of putting something from a conventional grocery store in my mouth, much less swallowing". I wanted to gag.

This was at a Whole Foods luncheon with their marketing executives. The experience made me want to avoid Whole Foods. I can get by with the farmer's market and TJ's and not deal with that kind of attitude.

ETA: I'm not accusing anyone on here of being a snob. It's just that I would not be comfortable showing up with a higher quality food item specifically for me and my family.

Not picking on you, just quoted the more recent in this particular conversation. At first, I was on the side of, that was pretty rude to bring your own meat. And yes, me personally would just eat sides and deal or whatever. BUT then I got to thinking, thats one thing for me, but I would not want my kids to be there and be hungry or the side dishes not filling enough and them WANTING the meat that they could not have..... if I truly felt that strongly that this food was bad for them....ok. I would probally feed them before we got there, but still I can see how my two year old would want a hotdog like everyone else. Feeding them before hand also kinda defeats the purpose of the get togather, the social eating aspect. Although I might just claim we were vegatarians and it was a tofu dog, I dont know. Then again, how will the host EVER know ifyou dont tell them? Oh, nevermind, I dont know, Im a bad person to ask becuase Im so nonconfrontational anyway, its hard to know when Im being reasonable/polite or when Im just avoiding the conflict....


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## honeybee (Mar 12, 2004)

I don't know that "organic" is necessarily all that important to me, but avoiding junk is. And that processed stuff does have so much junk. There may also be a reason she's bringing those snacks. Maybe her ds reacts badly to artificial dyes, flavors, and preservatives, or hfcs. The organic snacks do have less of the junk. Yes, they are still processed, but I would prefer sugar to hfcs any day, even though we don't really use either at home cooking.

I have to bring different snacks with us everywhere because of ds2's food intolerances. He doesn't have a true "allergy" but I'd still rather not see his face broken out just to fit in with the rest of the kids.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hoopin' Mama* 

Just last week this sentence was said to me: " Cost is no issue, I wouldn't even think of putting something from a conventional grocery store in my mouth, much less swallowing". I wanted to gag.

This was at a Whole Foods luncheon with their marketing executives.

The second part actually makes the first part okay. Marketing executives are going to exaggerate in support of their product, particularly if there are customers. I bet a TJ luncheon with their marketing executives would result in some equally stupid nonsense.

But for a normal person to say the "cost is no issue..." line? Makes me think of something I read in book once: "people who say they'd rather have flowers on the table than dinner without flowers have never truly had to make the choice."


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Well, what I told my friend is that I was surprised the preschool was having such trouble handling it because they must have had kids with allergies or who had dietary issues such as vegetarianism or religious dietary laws (this is a friend who lived near me when we were living in the Detroit area where there were lots of Islamic families.) So I said if the preschool can handle those things, the preschool should be able to handle this the exact same way. I would personally rather send my dd to school with her own snack every single day because they serve junk. I did send her own snack for a while, but I've decided to relax about that.


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## honeybee (Mar 12, 2004)

Wow, no wonder I meet so much hostility out in the world. Apparently just trying to make sure my own kids eat healthy makes me a "food snob" and trying to "show up the other parents." Are parents really that insecure? I don't make comments about what other parents feed their kids or turn up my nose or act rudely. What my kids eat is important to me. That doesn't mean we don't get occasional treats (well, at least before the food allergies were an issue), but I wouldn't want my kids eating crap 3 or more days a week on a regular basis, like at preschool. I guess that makes me a snob?


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## sunny*pa*mom (Mar 28, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *honeybee* 
Wow, no wonder I meet so much hostility out in the world. Apparently just trying to make sure my own kids eat healthy makes me a "food snob" and trying to "show up the other parents." Are parents really that insecure? I don't make comments about what other parents feed their kids or turn up my nose or act rudely. What my kids eat is important to me. That doesn't mean we don't get occasional treats (well, at least before the food allergies were an issue), but I wouldn't want my kids eating crap 3 or more days a week on a regular basis, like at preschool. I guess that makes me a snob?









I think only on message boards amongst strangers does it make you a snob.







Honestly, ds2 always has his own snack and the kids never fight and he never feels ostracized. Even when we have playgroups with friends that eat differently, I take enough food for all the kids and the hostess puts all the snacks out together for the kids to share. No one cares. They've seen my son when he's reacting to dyes and everyone is glad we usually avoid that scene.







I've even had a few moms thank me because now their kids will eat broccoli since we've sent it for snack at preschool. I never preach about our food choices but in getting to know friends over the past few years they realize food is important to us.


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## siobhang (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *purplemoon* 
I think relationships are more important than once a month eating something I wouldn't buy. If I was against the ethics of the meat eaten, I would just eat the sides with a smile.

I have certain friends with varying degrees of allergies and meat sensitivities and plan accordingly. If it is a large BBQ, I will probably through on a couple tofu dogs for the main part of their meal (since I can't please everyone) and hope they enjoy the side dishes.

To me, it sounds like both the guest and the host are both making this more difficult than it needs to be.

Agreed - and I have also been in situations when my host was providing me food at considerable expense to themselves - think mud hut in a rural village in Africa, being fed very large snails in a neon green hot sauce, accompanied by water from a rain bucket with visible worms floating in it - and being told that this is the ONLY protein the elderly widow has had that week and she is giving it all to YOU, as an important guest. yes, i ate the freakin' snail. And yes I did get sick. Because respect and honoring someone's sacrifice are actually worth it, IMHO.

If you really have issues with how your hosts eat, either eat ahead of time and go to the picnic for the company/desserts or offer to bring something for everyone to share that you can eat. It is possible to attend to a family's food preferences/needs without implying that their food is not good enough, YKWIM?


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## siobhang (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *honeybee* 
Wow, no wonder I meet so much hostility out in the world. Apparently just trying to make sure my own kids eat healthy makes me a "food snob" and trying to "show up the other parents." Are parents really that insecure? I don't make comments about what other parents feed their kids or turn up my nose or act rudely. What my kids eat is important to me. That doesn't mean we don't get occasional treats (well, at least before the food allergies were an issue), but I wouldn't want my kids eating crap 3 or more days a week on a regular basis, like at preschool. I guess that makes me a snob?









I too have high standards for what my kids eat, esp. as my oldest does not tolerate food dyes nor a lot of sugar. Luckily, I was able to influence what the preschool moms bring by talking among the parents and getting everyone to agree that snack != treat - that snack should be a mini meal and that a meal needs protein, a (preferably high fiber) carb, and a veg/fruit. So we get less cookies and more cheese and crackers with carrots. I am not thrilled with wheat thins, but they are much preferred to ho hos.

Also, on the "eating only organic" - we try to avoid processed foods in general, and I do try to buy organic fruits and veg and the milk is always organic. We are very able to avoid transfats and HFCS this way - i even make my own bread because I know exactly what ingredients are in it. With the occasional kraft mac and cheese kill 'em? no, but I am more comfortable with a whole wheat hodgson mill mac and cheese (but then I am also hard core about high fiber, as I have IBS entirely treated by diet).

But ya know, we all figure out our priorities and then try to live within them, which is hard enough, without other people telling us we are doing it all wrong.


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## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

It completely depends on the situation for us. We unschool and one factor (of many) was health. Organic or not, crackers and other highly processed foods are not healthy. We do not buy that stuff at all. If my child were going to have to eat it daily as part of the school routine, you bet I would make sure an alternative was made available. And no, it would not be organic cheddar bunnies but something with actual nutritional value. And no, I would not care if it made me look like a snob. Especially at a preschool where I would be PAYING to have my child there.

But in other situations, especially optional social situations we act based on what will work best. Dd was just in a dance show and all of the kids in her class had to stay backstage until their dance came along. The wonderful mom volunteers who watched them had snacks I would not normally serve my child. This was a rare situation and these moms were doing me a HUGE favor. I would not dream of making an issue of the food or asking them to serve dd an alternative that I brought. We just went with it. Something like this comes up once or twice a week.....a birthday party, a playdate, a kid's activity at the library, etc.... I just ask dd to always keep in mind what foods make her feel yucky so she can self-moderate the intake and then look the other way. Same thing with BBQs and other parties. We are vegetarians, largely because we do not have a local affordable source of clean meat, so it is easy enough to just avoid the main course and eat bigger portions of the side dishes. Some people know we are veggies and will have veggie burgers or something for us. Not something I would normally buy or choose to feed my family, but if someone goes out for their way to accommodate us, we eat it gratefully. Some people ask what they should get to accommodate us. When that happens I usually volunteer to bring something both to not put them out and to also give us a better chance of having something more in line with our normal eating (like homemade lentil-walnut burgers rather than an overly processed Tofu dog). Some people ask us to bring our own grill food, which I happily do and often enough for the rest of the guests if they want to try it.


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
The second part actually makes the first part okay. Marketing executives are going to exaggerate in support of their product, particularly if there are customers. I bet a TJ luncheon with their marketing executives would result in some equally stupid nonsense.

But for a normal person to say the "cost is no issue..." line? Makes me think of something I read in book once: "people who say they'd rather have flowers on the table than dinner without flowers have never truly had to make the choice."


Oh, I stated it in a confusing manner -- it was not said by someone on the Whole Foods team, it was said by one of their customers - who claims to be in the store 4-6x a week and often eats dinner from the deli counter. The other customers didn't say anything this bizarre, but there was definitely an elitist vibe to it. One woman, who was very nice, travels the country in a giant RV every year and WILL NOT stay at a town without a WF. After the "cost is no issue" statement, I spoke up to the marketing directors and told them about all the families I know who truly care about food issues and eating local and organic, who make decent livings, but still feel they cannot afford to shop at WF. Their answer to that is the 365 line.
I was happy to attend the luncheon, but the whole experience just made me feel ........ weird.
Interestingly, the store manager spent most of his career at a Ralph's.


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *siobhang* 
Agreed - and I have also been in situations when my host was providing me food at considerable expense to themselves - think mud hut in a rural village in Africa, being fed very large snails in a neon green hot sauce, accompanied by water from a rain bucket with visible worms floating in it - and being told that this is the ONLY protein the elderly widow has had that week and she is giving it all to YOU, as an important guest. yes, i ate the freakin' snail. And yes I did get sick. Because respect and honoring someone's sacrifice are actually worth it, IMHO.

If you really have issues with how your hosts eat, either eat ahead of time and go to the picnic for the company/desserts or offer to bring something for everyone to share that you can eat. It is possible to attend to a family's food preferences/needs without implying that their food is not good enough, YKWIM?









:
I learned ALOT about food being tied into hospitality when I moved to my current town. I may choose not to eat the menudo my hostess is serving, but i certainly would not bring my own soup instead.


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## Bluegoat (Nov 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *siobhang* 
Agreed - and I have also been in situations when my host was providing me food at considerable expense to themselves - think mud hut in a rural village in Africa, being fed very large snails in a neon green hot sauce, accompanied by water from a rain bucket with visible worms floating in it - and being told that this is the ONLY protein the elderly widow has had that week and she is giving it all to YOU, as an important guest. yes, i ate the freakin' snail. And yes I did get sick. Because respect and honoring someone's sacrifice are actually worth it, IMHO.

If you really have issues with how your hosts eat, either eat ahead of time and go to the picnic for the company/desserts or offer to bring something for everyone to share that you can eat. It is possible to attend to a family's food preferences/needs without implying that their food is not good enough, YKWIM?

Yes, this. A friend of mine recently returned from a place like this - where he watched his host go out, use the latrine and wipe with his hand, and return to offer the little bread and tea he had with the same hand. Guess what, everyone ate it, because it would have been an unforgivable breach of hospitality not to. The foreigners all got sick, the locals not so much. Or another friend who, when leaving after a year in Africa, found herself eating four good-buy meals in one afternoon... But I think we Westerners have pretty much lost our understanding of what hospitality is and what it means.

FWIW, in most barbecue type situations, I would say it is more appropriate to offer to bring a dish to share than something just for yourself.


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## RiverTam (May 29, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *honeybee* 
Wow, no wonder I meet so much hostility out in the world. Apparently just trying to make sure my own kids eat healthy makes me a "food snob" and trying to "show up the other parents." Are parents really that insecure? I don't make comments about what other parents feed their kids or turn up my nose or act rudely. What my kids eat is important to me. That doesn't mean we don't get occasional treats (well, at least before the food allergies were an issue), but I wouldn't want my kids eating crap 3 or more days a week on a regular basis, like at preschool. I guess that makes me a snob?









No. It makes you a parent who has made choices about what is best for her kids. A parent who makes choices for kids is being a good parent. You're not a snob.

People who post messages on message boards that say something roughly like "What is WRONG with people who don't make the same choices as me?" and make comments that people who have made different choices are "ignorant" are snobs and worse. T


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## Just My Opinion (Nov 26, 2008)

I thnk it is all about presentation, personally. I don't think many mamas (even in the mainstream) would bat an eye at "oh geez, dyes make my kid go nuts! I don't want to deal with that the rest of the day" or "we only eat ingredients I can pronounce!" (in a light-hearted way)-- as reasoning for bringing a snack.

It is the often sactimonious, snobbish, crunchier-than-thou, upturned nose and phrases such as "_*I*_ actually _care_ what _*my*_ family eats, and _I_ would _*never*_ put that in _*my*_ child's body" that makes me roll my eyes and think you (general 'you') are an elitist jerk.


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## jlobe (May 1, 2009)

For me, my values around food exist among other values I have, hospitality, friendship, consumerism, etc. So my response to a situation depends on the other factors. For example, at a potluck, I would bring my own food preferences (local, etc.) with people who may not have the luxury of making the choices I do, or who may not understand my values ( multi-cultural situations, not intimate friendships). In the school situation I think that I would send a snack of non-processed food for my child. Partly because I think it's important to educate schools on their ability to provide natural snacks to children without extra cost - both because of kids health, as well as teaching kids about natural food, where it comes from and how to prepare it. I think that is part of what schools should be doing in the first place if they provide food for children. Where I live there is a group of people committed to providing organic food to daycares and schools and providing non processed snacks for just this reason.







But all these choices exist with other values I have and are not absolute.


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## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *siobhang* 
I have also been in situations when my host was providing me food at considerable expense to themselves - think mud hut in a rural village in Africa, being fed very large snails in a neon green hot sauce, accompanied by water from a rain bucket with visible worms floating in it - and being told that this is the ONLY protein the elderly widow has had that week and she is giving it all to YOU, as an important guest. yes, i ate the freakin' snail. And yes I did get sick. Because respect and honoring someone's sacrifice are actually worth it, IMHO.

I think this is a completely different situation than being invited to an American BBQ, FWIW. Apples and oranges.

People in this country who have _bare_ cupboards are *not* going to throw a backyard cookout.

Also, who was it that told you the woman was giving all her food to you? That sounds like a guilt-trip rather than hospitality. If I were to visit a neighbor who only had one hotdog left in her refrigerator, I don't think I could take it for myself.


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## RunnerDuck (Sep 12, 2003)

I would feel horribly akward if someone brought their own "similar but better" food to a barbecue I was throwing. It costs a lot of money to have a barbecue. You need your meat, your beer, your veggies and dip for a lot of people. I think standards have to slip a little once so many people are invited. I'm not going to be serving grass fed free range buffalo burgers. I'd serve meat, and it would be lean, but it's not going to be primo primo stuff. Cooking for just my family, I can afford to use higher quality ingredients... but I think once you have a large party, the expectation needs to be, the foods a little junky, but once in a while isn't going to hurt. Now I would have a veggie option (there are always veggie burgers in my house) and if someone were to bring a veggie or other dietary restriction type food along, that would be OK - but if someone were to bring a higher priced version of the same thing I am making - that would be akward. Not exactly offensive, but akward.


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## Lynn08 (Dec 2, 2008)

Sorry - I haven't read thru this entire thread, but...

We only have organic foods in our home. We are faaaar from rich, but for us it is just as important as having water and electricity so we include it in the budget. It just means we sacrifice in other areas. However, we are not so fanatical that our child(ren) cannot eat non-organic outside the home (at a relative's, school, etc).

We are vegan, tho. So in a situation like the OP described, we would be sending along "special" foods anyway. And they would be organic because that's what we eat. And I would send in the "healthier" version of whatever the other kids ate (graham crackers, wheat thins, etc) so that my child(ren) did not feel left out.

We also bring our own food to family gatherings, parties, bbqs, etc because we are vegan and don't expect other people to be responsible for our food/lifestyle preferences. Again, it would be organic by default. It's actually a running joke in my family: "You can't eat that - it's not organic" about the ribs that everyone else is eating. Like we would eat the ribs even if they _were_ organic.


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## Bluegoat (Nov 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2xy* 
I think this is a completely different situation than being invited to an American BBQ, FWIW. Apples and oranges.

People in this country who have _bare_ cupboards are *not* going to throw a backyard cookout.

Also, who was it that told you the woman was giving all her food to you? That sounds like a guilt-trip rather than hospitality. If I were to visit a neighbor who only had one hotdog left in her refrigerator, I don't think I could take it for myself.

No, it was likely true. In many places in the world, a guest is given the best food, the best bed, the best of everything. The family will sleep in the shed so the guest can have the only bed. That is how guests are treated, and to refuse is a huge insensitive rudeness - it implies that their best isn't good enough.

There are lots of stories about gods or fairies in disguise being given the last chicken by poor folks, and being rewarded - that's the ind of mind set that behavior comes from. Hospitality is one of the major cultural values.

It seems to me that when life is more tenuous, we respect those things. When we're relatively rich and all live to be 70, we spend our time worrying about our health.


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## Lynn08 (Dec 2, 2008)

OK, I just read the whole thread and wanted to add something on the subject of hospitality and food.

If we go somewhere and someone has made the effort of buying/preparing food specifically for us, we eat it and are extremely grateful. Even if it's just veggies with hummus. Heck, I've eaten an entire plate of chips and salsa because that was the only thing I could eat at a friend's birthday party (someone else threw the party and didn't know I was vegan - they felt terrible that that was all they had for me, but I was just glad to be there celebrating with my friend) and gotten something to eat afterwards.

But none of my family/close friends are ever offended when we bring our own food - usually it's one less thing they have to worry about.


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## Magali (Jun 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waiflywaif* 
Some things are very susceptible to harboring pesticides (like strawberries). I buy the organic versions for that reason. Other things, like bananas, are resistant and you peel them anyway so the conventional are just fine.

I kind of think it's silly to insist on organic versions of processed foods like cookies and crackers. The wheat in there was wheat a looong time ago.

this







. That being said, I wouldn't want my ds eating processed foods or their organic equivalents on a daily basis anyways. By that I mean crackers or granola bars or whatever processed snacky thing it is...organic or not.


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## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bluegoat* 
No, it was likely true. In many places in the world, a guest is given the best food, the best bed, the best of everything.

I never said it wasn't true. I said it doesn't seem hospitable to *tell* someone how much you're sacrificing for them.

"Oh, by the way....please enjoy the last scrap of food I have in my house. I won't eat for another three days because I'm giving it to you." That's rude, to me. I wouldn't feel badly at all for refusing food if it was offered to me in that manner.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bluegoat* 
No, it was likely true. In many places in the world, a guest is given the best food, the best bed, the best of everything. The family will sleep in the shed so the guest can have the only bed. That is how guests are treated, and to refuse is a huge insensitive rudeness - it implies that their best isn't good enough.

There are lots of stories about gods or fairies in disguise being given the last chicken by poor folks, and being rewarded - that's the ind of mind set that behavior comes from. Hospitality is one of the major cultural values.

It seems to me that when life is more tenuous, we respect those things. When we're relatively rich and all live to be 70, we spend our time worrying about our health.

The guest is the most important, that's why as the host in a country that allows me the ability to provide for myself and my guest without one of us having to give something up, I cater to my guests dietary needs when they differe from my own.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

I'm looking forward to DS starting kindergarten because each parent will send a snack for just their own child every day, rather than having one parent bring snack for the whole classroom. It'll stop the "organic" camp from getting angry about the food choices being offered to their kids, and it'll stop the "junk food" camp from rolling their eyes at parents who choose to send healthier options for their kid.









(Note: I'm pretty happy with the snack options given at DS's preschool, and he has no food issues, so I've never sent anything special for him, but I can see how it could cause problems on both sides of the issue when snack is shared by the whole class.)


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## RunnerDuck (Sep 12, 2003)

You know what? I have to back peddle. I did once go to a barbecue where I absolutely had to forbid my son to eat what was being served.

They were dear, dear friends of ours. The main course was great. I couldn't tell ya what it was but this guy, he had a way with meat. I don't like meat and yet this guy would grill a streak that had me asking for more, more, more.

BUT - they had just gotten a fire pit and were going to make smores. My son had never had smores and he was SO excited. But they had bought duraflames... and 2 marshmellows in I realized there was an odd, black, greasy build up on the marshmellows.

I was VERY torn between offend hosts & deny son first taste of smores... or protect son's well being. And well... he had cold smores that night.

Maybe that helped me put everything else into perspective.

If it doesn't leave a greasy sooty build up, once in a while probably won't hurt.

Oh lord that was an akward barbecue. I think I'd blocked it from memory...


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## Panthira (Jun 13, 2005)

I do not think it's offensive at ALL to bring our own food to a gathering. If I, or one of my allergic kids, eats the food they prepare, it could KILL US. Is that being stuck-up? Should we never go to gatherings? The last thing we went to was a pool party where we brought our own GF pizza, and we nibbled on the fruit the hostess provided. Non-organic or organic fruit, I have no idea, since it was in a bowl. If it's not plain fruit or veggies, we cannot be sure enough to eat it. So I guess we aren't super snobs about it, since we will eat non-organic fruit and veggies if they are offered, but prepared or otherwise, we have no choice. I think that's what most people don't get, because they don't have to deal with major health issues regarding food.


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## purplemoon (Sep 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Panthira* 
I do not think it's offensive at ALL to bring our own food to a gathering. If I, or one of my allergic kids, eats the food they prepare, it could KILL US. Is that being stuck-up? Should we never go to gatherings? The last thing we went to was a pool party where we brought our own GF pizza, and we nibbled on the fruit the hostess provided. Non-organic or organic fruit, I have no idea, since it was in a bowl. If it's not plain fruit or veggies, we cannot be sure enough to eat it. So I guess we aren't super snobs about it, since we will eat non-organic fruit and veggies if they are offered, but prepared or otherwise, we have no choice. I think that's what most people don't get, because they don't have to deal with major health issues regarding food.

If I had invited you to my home I would imagine you would have been forthcoming and told me so I could accomodate you. As I said, I have friends with allergies and food issues that have all been able to eat at my home because I know that and prefer to be a good hostess and not kill them.









I think you aren't being rude at all, the host/ess is by serving food that you can't eat. Of course if it is complicated to serve your family, if you brought enough pizza for everyone, then no biggie.

And even if you did always bring your own food, only for you, while slightly rude, not that big of a deal, you know?


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

As far as accepting hospitality and gatherings go, I think there's a difference between serious health issues, vegetarianism and religious dietary laws, and the preference of organic food. Having non-organic food occasionally is not in the same realm as someone with an allergy having a reaction, or someone with religious beliefs or who is a vegetarian having a complete food group they simply don't have. I have friends who don't eat pork or shellfish. I don't serve pork or shellfish when they are here. I have friends who are vegetarian and vegan. I make sure I have a good variety of vegetarian and/or vegan foods, depending on who is here, and am careful to not cross contaminate vegan with non-vegan dishes, or vegetarian with non-vegetarian dishes. I have friends with allergies and I am very careful and discuss specifically what is in each dish and offer for people to see packaging if they need to read it. And I would understand if people in those situations were to say, "I'm afraid this isn't going to meet our needs, but we'd really love to come. Is it OK if we just bring our own food?" But if someone said my apples weren't good enough and they were bringing their own apples to an event I was hosting at my home, I would think that was rude.


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## emilysmama (Jun 22, 2005)

My daughter is in daycare that devotes the morning to preschool activities. I send her all her own food 5 days a week, 10 hours a day, and I've done it since she started solids. Morning snack, lunch, and afternoon snack. It's not a problem at all for her. When she was 3 years old and someone gave her candy, we had a little heart to heart chat about why she was bringing her own food. At that age, she was old enough to understand that at daycare, she eats only the food from her lunchbox because when she is in the daycare, mama is not around to be able to read the ingredients list.

She has been fine with our arrangement ever since she was a year and a half. When she was a toddler, I made sure that her food was as close as possible to what the other kids were having (you know, like plain goldfish instead of cheddar goldfish), but once she turned 3.5, I sometimes send her food that is totally different from what the other kids are having, and she reports that it is fine with her. The kids sometimes ask her what she has for snack/lunch, my daughter tells them what it is, and then all the kids get down to their business of eating their respective food without further comment. For example, one day I was lazy, and I packed nori seaweed instead of corn for my daughter's vegetable, and now I understand that her friends now know what seaweed looks like. Every year (this is the third or fourth year of this), there is a different teacher involved, and there is never a problem. The teacher is completely on board with my request and that's what makes this work.

The only time I ever had a problem with my child bringing her own food was when she was a toddler. When my daughter was a toddler it never occurred to me to send food that matches the other children's food, so I would just send whatever leftovers we had. So my daughter would eat the kale I sent for her, but she would also pick up the other children's corn from the floor and eat it. : ( At that point, the teacher tried to pressure me to just let my daughter eat the same food as the other children, but I gently declined. Instead, I did what you did and sent foods similar to the other children's food and from then on there were no more problems.

So i think it's the teachers that make or break this issue. They're the ones who can, with a few brief friendly, "Don't worry about your friend's foods," ensure that there is peace over the different foods issue.


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## StoriesInTheSoil (May 8, 2008)

Okay, we have two scenarios going on here... the original school snack one and a BBQ with friends one. Here's my take:

When I was in elementary school, there was a kid who was allergic to red dye. We didn't have any snacks with red dye. No one in the room. Not even at birthdays. My friend's son is allergic to peanuts and no one in his class at school gets snacks with peanuts and nothing with peanuts is allowed in the room. Not because his allergy is so sensitive that he'd swell from the kid across the table eating peanut butter but because then the kids are all eating the same thing. I think that's a good way to handle things.

Some people's responses to the BBQ scenario kind of tick me off. I've been taught to be gracious and eat what is offered all my life but I still bring veggie burgers to BBQs. It's not fair for my family to have to eat only pasta salad and apples. I bring enough that we can eat them and anyone else that wants to can have one also and many times there have been guests who were very appreciative to have something brought that they could eat. The only person that has ever seemed to think this is rude also thinks _I'm_ rude for breastfeeding, weird for cloth diapering, indulgent for baby wearing, overzealous in recycling, and thinks organic anything is a scam so whatever, she's rude to me about everything.

ETA: I guess what I'm saying about the BBQ is that you need to bring enough that other people can eat what you're eating, too. BBQs are typically potlucks (around here at least) so that only makes sense. Bringing just one or two meat patties would definitely seem odd to me if there wasn't a medical reason for it.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tinyactsofcharity* 
Okay, we have two scenarios going on here... the original school snack one and a BBQ with friends one. Here's my take:

When I was in elementary school, there was a kid who was allergic to red dye. We didn't have any snacks with red dye. No one in the room. Not even at birthdays. My friend's son is allergic to peanuts and no one in his class at school gets snacks with peanuts and nothing with peanuts is allowed in the room. Not because his allergy is so sensitive that he'd swell from the kid across the table eating peanut butter but because then the kids are all eating the same thing. I think that's a good way to handle things.

Some people's responses to the BBQ scenario kind of tick me off. I've been taught to be gracious and eat what is offered all my life but I still bring veggie burgers to BBQs. It's not fair for my family to have to eat only pasta salad and apples. I bring enough that we can eat them and anyone else that wants to can have one also and many times there have been guests who were very appreciative to have something brought that they could eat. *The only person that has ever seemed to think this is rude also thinks I'm rude for breastfeeding, weird for cloth diapering, indulgent for baby wearing, overzealous in recycling, and thinks organic anything is a scam so whatever, she's rude to me about everything.*

OMG you just described my friend!! The person who was angry with me for bringing meat to the BBQ. She is so easily offended, and she thinks I am crazy for how I eat, raise my kids (always telling me to let my baby CIO) etc

and since other posters have asked, I did tell her ahead of time that I was bringing meat for my family. I laughingly said 'I'm gonna bring my snob meat' and she was totally offended. She is a close friend, and knows darn good and well how important it is to my family and I that we eat meat that was raised responsibly and respectfully butchered. I am the person she turns to when her husband goes psycho, or she is having a nervous breakdown etc. We have been friends since we were 8 years old. I think it is ridiculous that she got offended. I would never ask someone to compromise their morals in order to appease me.


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