# ugh



## cheery

Sorry for the non descriptive thread title but I don't know what to call this and don't want to alarm anyone. Also this is not strictly about learning at school or home - actually dd learns at home but she learned this particular thing from a student handbook at a friend's school. 

So we visited some friends with kids aged 10 and 12. Their school year just started and dd was looking at their student handbooks. They have precise rules about length of hugging, location of hugging etc that is allowed. The 10 year old said in a matter of fact voice, if you hug for longer that is sexual abuse. 

That is what the school has told them. I am aghast and don't know how to explain this to dd. Abuse depends on consent, not length of time. I said that the school could define it as inappropriate behavior during school hours / on school grounds but they could not define it as abuse. 

Second point, dd barely knows what sex is beyond the way people have children and I would prefer that, when she is older and mature, she become aware of the positive aspects of sexuality before the negative … I don't want it to be this scary thing (as it always seemed to me). She knows about consent and that people cannot touch her without her consent. 

Currently she plays with boys and girls on an equal basis and has no sense of sexual attraction or what might make a hug "more" than a hug, etc.


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## Linda on the move

Your DD is about 11 right?

I think she is old enough to understand that hugging between non-family members is meant to be brief. School have to be very clear about what the rules are so that all the adults there require the same rules and punishments for all the kids. (which is actually more difficult than one would think). Your DD is old enough to understand that school make the rules very clear and why they need to do that.

I've worked in an elementary school, and "over hugging" among kids her age wasn't a big problem. At that age, when they like each other, they slap and kick. Really. Mostly because they aren't ready for hugging -- its still too creepy. High school is when "over-hugging" becomes a real problem for school staff.

The rule the school has isn't for the regular kids, it's for the kids who have trouble with social cues, i.e., kids who have mild special needs, and it is meant to make it very clear to them and to their parents where the school is drawing the line. This is actually really hard for staff to explain to the student body, for obvious reasons.

I would also take the "its sexual abuse" thing with a grain of salt. Just because a 10 year old says that is what they were taught, it doesn't follow that is what any adult ever told them. Your DD is old enough to understand that kids put things together in their own heads, and that she should *think critically about what other kids say to her*.


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## cheery

In the student handbook it says that violation of these rules constitutes sexual abuse. 

So if I tell her that sexual abuse has to do with consent and not with length, and explain the reasons behind these rules, then I will basically be telling her to think critically about the way the school has defined sexual abuse.

Without consent, even a brief hug would be abusive. 

I think that the school should simply have said that this is inappropriate behavior.


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## Linda on the move

cheery said:


> The 10 year old said in a matter of fact voice, if you hug for longer that is sexual abuse.





cheery said:


> In the student handbook it says that violation of these rules constitutes sexual abuse.


I agree that would be a fairly silly thing to put in a student handbook, which is why I question this. Did you actually read this in the handbook? "Over hugging" (complete with tongues down each other's throats) is an issue at my DD's highschool, but no one considers it sexual abuse. It's all quite consensual.

Sexual abuse, on the other hand, pretty much always involves a power imbalance.

Second point, this might serve as a wake up call to you that if you aren't open and honest with your DD about sexuality (not just how babies are made, but the whole messy deal of human sexual relationships) that she will learn about it from others, often is slightly off ways because her peers don't have a great understanding of this topic.


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## mammal_mama

cheery said:


> So if I tell her that sexual abuse has to do with consent and not with length, and explain the reasons behind these rules, then I will basically be telling her to think critically about the way the school has defined sexual abuse.


I think it's actually a good thing for all of us, adults and children, to think critically about EVERYTHING we hear, regardless of the source.

My older daughter started public school a year ago after homeschooling up to then, and because she's in school by choice, she's amenable to the fact that she needs to abide by the rules whether she agrees with them or not -- but it's still perfectly okay with me for her to respectfully express her disagreement with certain rules or certain statements made by teachers.


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## caserpode

well, that the school should simply have said that this is inappropriate behavior.


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