# How to deal with this very uncomfortable situation? UPDATE bottom pg 2



## mama2toomany (Oct 17, 2005)

I take care of my disabled older brother... He is 28 he hates to be alone.

So when I had to leave for a day I asked a good friend of mine to have him over to her house and play video games and stuff like that. my 15 yr old brother went with him as he was with me for spring break.

Well they went to my friends house... she has a 5 yr old daughter.

I called several times to check on them... everything was fine... I came and picked them up and my friend told me that everyone had lots of fun and there was no trouble at all....

picking them up and heading to the car I noticed my older brother was really quite and upset... he didn't want to talk about it at all... he came home and went right to his room... I asked him over and over if he was ok... he said I don't know... I told him that when he was ready to talk I was here.

Later he came up stairs ... very flustered and red in the face.. practically crying. and he told me what happened.

He and my younger brother (who confirms the story) were sitting down playing ps2 when my friends 5 yr old came in the room... sat down on the floor right in front of them... and started to touch herself in front of them .... ... telling them to watch me watch me...

My brothers freaked out and yelled for my friend... the little girl jumped up and ran in her room... they told my friend and she said :"yeah she does that sometimes"

My older brother was very upset and uncomfortable and asked if he could call me to come and get him... my friend said no that it was no big deal..... so he sat in the bathroom for the rest of the day.

He told me all this and is mad because I sent him there,.... I honestly had no idea it would happen of course.

I want to talk to my friend about this... but I don't want to upset her... i am still in shock that she didn't tell me what happened.

I know that masterbation is a very normal and healthy thing for children but that it should be something they are taught not to share... something that is theres alone and meant for privacy.

I am worried that she was so open with it... I have no idea how to aproach my friend with this. I told my brothers that they never have to go back there and it wasn't there fault but I don't think my older brother understands that it is ok for him to feel uncomfortable with this.

ugh what would you do? how would you bring this up?


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## 2Sweeties1Angel (Jan 30, 2006)

Your friend was probably embarrassed and that's why she acted like she was blowing it off.


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## babycakescom (Apr 12, 2006)

First of all,
I agree that children do experiment at that age but she should definitely be taught that its not appropriate in front of other people.

Secondaly, your older brother should not have been forced to stay anywhere where he is no longer comfortable. He should of have been given every opportunity to call you and let you know what is going on and to leave if necessary.

I feel is was wrong of your friend not only to make him stay but also to brush off the situation and not even tell you about it.

I know you dont want to hurt no ones feelings, but i feel your brothers were hurt. You need to tell her that something has been bothering you and explain what you did in this forum and tell her how you feel, that you are hurt that she didnt even mention it to you.

Also explain that your brother was so affected that he is no longer comfortable going there. If shes a close friend and cares about you and your family, then she will understand. Let me know how it goes. Good Luck.


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## mama2toomany (Oct 17, 2005)

Yeah I am going to invite her over for tea tomorrow and try to talk with her... my brother will be out with my dh so he won't be here.


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## bewitchedmama (Apr 25, 2006)

here goes even if you don't want to hear it
that child has been molested

that is not normal masturbatory behavior for a five year old child--to do it in front of older kids, even an adult
that is NOT NORMAL i repeat

being a good citizen, you need to report this to Children's Protective Services it's up to you if you want to tell the mom or not but you can file a complaint anonymously

i work with sexually abused children and this behavior is a HUGE red flag of serious abuse

my two cents take it or leave it


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## merrybee (May 18, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bewitchedmama*
here goes even if you don't want to hear it
that child has been molested

that is not normal masturbatory behavior for a five year old child--to do it in front of older kids, even an adult
that is NOT NORMAL i repeat

being a good citizen, you need to report this to Children's Protective Services it's up to you if you want to tell the mom or not but you can file a complaint anonymously

i work with sexually abused children and this behavior is a HUGE red flag of serious abuse

my two cents take it or leave it









:

I agree, this was my first response too. This seems outside the bounds of normal sexual exploration. I am worried something has happened to or in front of this child.


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## Strong Mama (Feb 7, 2006)

Quote:

you asked...i'm answering

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

here goes even if you don't want to hear it
that child has been molested

that is not normal masturbatory behavior for a five year old child--to do it in front of older kids, even an adult
that is NOT NORMAL i repeat

being a good citizen, you need to report this to Children's Protective Services it's up to you if you want to tell the mom or not but you can file a complaint anonymously

i work with sexually abused children and this behavior is a HUGE red flag of serious abuse

my two cents take it or leave it
i totally agree. Raising hand here as another person who worked with CPS and knows the signs.

My heart is breaking for this little girl and for your brother who had to see this and def. knows somethings is not right with it.

Please please do something about this. ((HUGS)))


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## Jennifer Z (Sep 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2toomany*
... telling them to watch me watch me...

I am no expert, but this is the part that made me think "molestation". Masterbating is a little more gray, but wanting attention for it like that seems too much to me.


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## Canadianmommax3 (Mar 6, 2006)

is it the fact that she said watch me or that she did it in front of them? (saying it was molestation)

When my niece was 2-3 she use to start humping this stuffed toy, right in front of my dh and i. I have to say it was a tad uncomfortable, and she was going right at it! So was she molested also?


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## Tinas3muskateers (May 19, 2004)

The watch me watch me throws up red flags for me.. why would she say that? And most little girls if they are going to masterbate are just going to rub on a couch arm or a stuffed animal, she put on a show.. something is up. IMO of course


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Canadianmommax3*
When my niece was 2-3 she use to start humping this stuffed toy, right in front of my dh and i. I have to say it was a tad uncomfortable, and she was going right at it! So was she molested also?

I don't know, but there's a HUGE cognitive difference between 2-3 and 5.


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

I would not let my brother stay there anymore. The mentally challenged person can get accused of anything and are believe to be hyper-sexual and cannot control it. Is he mentally challenged or just physically?

Think about this. If that girl is getting molested someone place the blame on your brother he could be put in a situation harder for him to legally disprove his innocence.

I wouldn't be bothered if she had just masturbated with him there (like sitting there on the couch watching TV and twaddling,) it is the "Look at me" that has me really worried about the situation. Now if your brother was the same age as this child I wouldn't think that much of it.

I would find some other adult day care situation for him.


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Canadianmommax3*
is it the fact that she said watch me or that she did it in front of them? (saying it was molestation)

When my niece was 2-3 she use to start humping this stuffed toy, right in front of my dh and i. I have to say it was a tad uncomfortable, and she was going right at it! So was she molested also?

It is the "watch me" that is over the edge of normal behavior. Some five year olds will "twaddle" there parts in front of someone else still, it ussually is not a behavior they are aware they are doing. Humping is ussually already a known no-no infront of others. If this was 2 five year olds and the girl said look at this it would be concidered "normal" in the I show you mine you show me yours. A 2-3 year old doing it is very normal.


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## earthie_mama (Mar 27, 2006)

Wow. Poor little girl....and that is terrible for your brother as well. I would definatley tell my friend that her daughter's behavior is a sign of abuse, maybe she doesn't even know! I wouldn't just run to call CPS before getting a better idea of the home-situation though, they do not always know what is best. I think it is, however, necessary to call CPS if you suspect the abuse is still occurring and is not a past thing.

As for your brother, I don't have any idea what you could to make him more comfortable and get over the shock, mayben a written apology, even one from your friend....?

Gee, sure HTH, and let us know what happens!


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## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

It sounds like she's been exposed to pornography.

Or maybe it's just like when my two year old pokes her finger up her nose in front of me, just waiting for me to react. Maybe she's just figured out a way to garner a lot of attention for herself.


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blessed*
It sounds like she's been exposed to pornography.

Or maybe it's just like when my two year old pokes her finger up her nose in front of me, just waiting for me to react. Maybe she's just figured out a way to garner a lot of attention for herself.

Or could she have caught mommy and daddy in a sex act? Or just discovered what she can do, make her finger hide?

It is still odd though she said watch me. and I would protect my brother and not send him over. Then discuss it with the parents and see if there is something going on.


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## Charles Baudelaire (Apr 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *merrybee*







:

I agree, this was my first response too. This seems outside the bounds of normal sexual exploration. I am worried something has happened to or in front of this child.

That was my first thought as well. I'm not an expert on this issue, but what disturbs me are the following elements of this scenario:

1. The deliberate, purposeful self-stimulation. In my understanding, which may be flawed, kids' masturbation is more spur-of-the-moment and less "practiced."

2. The fact that she masturbated in front of two men who were virtual strangers.

3. The most disturbing element -- her demands, "Watch me! Watch me!"

This is an age, generally speaking, where girls tend to be more private than before, more reluctant to leave the bathroom door open, more conscious of themselves as separate beings with a need for privacy. This disturbs me greatly and I would definitely call someone.


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## nolonger (Jan 18, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marsupialmom*
I would not let my brother stay there anymore. The mentally challenged person can get accused of anything and are believe to be hyper-sexual and cannot control it.

Think about this. If that girl is getting molested someone place the blame on your brother he could be put in a situation harder for him to legally disprove his innocence.
.

I'm glad somebody finally said it; as the mother of a teenaged boy, I'm afraid that's the first thought that popped into my head. It doesn't mean that I have no compassion for the little girl, but your brothers are your family and she isn't.

The 28 year old's behaviour was amazingly sensible, both from a a self-preservation point of view and from a compassion for the little girl point of view. He should be commended for his common sense. I find it hard to believe that a mentally challenged person could cope so well under that kind of stress, but if I am mistaken, please compliment him and let him know how well he handled himself.

The 15 year old could easily be falsely accused as well. As a registered sex offender, his picture, address, and very vague details about the crime could be posted on the internet. This would affect him forever, not just personally, but as far as employment and education prospects.

Please remember that when innocent men are falsely accused, guilty men get off scot free.


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## Strong Mama (Feb 7, 2006)

Quote:

That was my first thought as well. I'm not an expert on this issue, but what disturbs me are the following elements of this scenario:

1. The deliberate, purposeful self-stimulation. In my understanding, which may be flawed, kids' masturbation is more spur-of-the-moment and less "practiced."

2. The fact that she masturbated in front of two men who were virtual strangers.

3. The most disturbing element -- her demands, "Watch me! Watch me!"

This is an age, generally speaking, where girls tend to be more private than before, more reluctant to leave the bathroom door open, more conscious of themselves as separate beings with a need for privacy. This disturbs me greatly and I would definitely call someone.
These statements are completely on the mark. The little girl, if only masterbating, would not have made the show of it, even if she gets attention for it from her mother or whomever, the fact that this was strangers, little ones at that age really need their privacy. I dont know what you are going to do, I hope that you at least speak to the friend and see what her take is on it. Its hard to jump the gun here, but from my professional experience as working with children who have been abused, I would say this is highly probably that she has had some inappropriate encounter with sex, be it pornography, or a person.


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## mama2toomany (Oct 17, 2005)

My brother has FAS (fetal alcohol syndrom) and club foot.

He is a very high functional person. But he also came from a very abusive home. He was pretty much tortured for the first 18 years of his life. He likes kids but keeps his distance because he thinks he scares them. and when I say tortured that is exactly what I mean. not just daily spankings in our house. He was thrown down stairs for wetting the bed,.... he was taken into the basement with a pillow over his head and beaten with boards... he is a true survivor in every sence of the word. I am amazed at how gentle he is.

He has talked to me some more about the event that happened at my friends house. and he too wants me to feel out if the little girl is being molested. his words were :"how did she learn to do that?" somthing bad must have happened.... she shouldn't be in that house....

About the family... the little girl is not the only child... they have an 8 yr old daughter and the husband is in the service and has been home for about 5 months... he was just put on active again but will not be far from home... He seems to be such a good guy.

my friend well she seems to sleep alot... maybe depression? She recently confided in me that she is expecting again. She sounded happy about the news.

I know the little girl stays home all day with her mom... they are always together and the dad is very militant and runs a tight ship when he is home... not really a hugging senstive father type. He seems very polite and has confessed to me that coming home was very difficult and the chaos in the house is more than he can stomach sometimes... He likes things clean and they are anything but tidy. I never got a bad vibe from him. Just felt a little sorry for him.

But that is about all I know... we are not close close friends... she is in a mothers group with me... I have not sent my daughter to her house for babysitting because of all of this.

I am going to try to get her to come over for tea and have a talk with her.


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

I think I disagree with the majority - I didn't think "abused kid" when I read your post.

I have three daughters. Four and five year old girls masturbate. Yes, they need to be taught it is private - but it was a process to get my dd to understand that.... She would do it in the family room while watching tv. When I explained that it was private and she could do that in her bedroom, she would sometimes cover up with a blanket in the family room - thinking that that was enough privacy I guess! There were times she did that when people were over - she just wasn't (at four) thinking about who was in the room next door or who might walk in. It was embarrassing for me but she really didn't see the issue. She did learn that it belonged in her bedroom though. And it was a phase that she grew out of - at least that we ever see!

The "look at me, look at me" part is odd in that context - but kids that age often say that about other things so not SO unimaginable.

I feel badly for your brother though. I bet your friend didn't want to ruin your day by letting him call you and stopping whatever it was that required you asking her help in the first place. She is probably also a bit embarrassed. But I wouldn't go into your get together with "I think your daughter has been abused". And the person who said to call CPS - whoa! That is WAY overkill and completely uncalled for IMO. Talk to your friend about it seeming like it COULD be a red flag for her having seen a sexual tv show/movie accidentally or something - and see what happens.


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## earthie_mama (Mar 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2toomany*
My brother has FAS (fetal alcohol syndrom) and club foot.

He is a very high functional person. But he also came from a very abusive home. He was pretty much tortured for the first 18 years of his life. He likes kids but keeps his distance because he thinks he scares them. and when I say tortured that is exactly what I mean. not just daily spankings in our house. He was thrown down stairs for wetting the bed,.... he was taken into the basement with a pillow over his head and beaten with boards... he is a true survivor in every sence of the word. I am amazed at how gentle he is.









That is sooo awful. were you raised by the same parents? I'm so glad he has you to take care of him now


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## mama2toomany (Oct 17, 2005)

yes we were raised with the same parents... I think the only reason I am at all able to function as an adult was because I had my brother with me through it all.


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## earthie_mama (Mar 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2toomany*
yes we were raised with the same parents... I think the only reason I am at all able to function as an adult was because I had my brother with me through it all.

Wow







s you two are so lucky have eachother then. That is so terrifying to me, that I can't even comprehend someone doing that.....my thoughts are with you


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## ~member~ (May 23, 2002)

It is not normal behavior. Even if the 5 yr old's mother was open about masterbation, the fact that she chose to act that way in front of two strange men is a huge red flag.

All my years of parenting, and, yes, my kids masterbate, they have never used it as a way of getting attention. They have jumped on ppl, yelled "HEY, LISTEN TO ME!", etc., but never used their sexuality to get attention.

mama2toomany- Tell your brother that what he felt was right and when he asked to leave, he was right. He should be empowered for his actions and thoughts.
Also, he has every right to be mad at you for putting him in that situation. Let him know you made an honest mistake and that you do love him and care about him and you will take steps to protect him in the future.
As any child who has been hurt, even if it was another kid at the park who threw sand at them, they need to have their feelings validated and know that their caregiver is doing their best to protect them.
I would also help your brother learn how to get to safety if he finds himself in situation where you are not there. Are there other adults he can call? Let him know it is okay to leave the house and call you from a pay phone. Let him know if he cannot get a hold of you, that it is okay to call his other contact to come and get him.

Make sure he understands the difference between safety and being bored or upset about rules, as you don't want him taking off every time he is just upset, but that if he has those feelings like he did at your friends house, to get a hold of an adult who will get him to safety.


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## Hippiemommie (Jul 3, 2005)

This is what my DH does for a living and this screams molestation!


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## Charles Baudelaire (Apr 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2toomany*
My brother has FAS (fetal alcohol syndrom) and club foot.

He has talked to me some more about the event that happened at my friends house. and he too wants me to feel out if the little girl is being molested. his words were :"how did she learn to do that?" somthing bad must have happened.... she shouldn't be in that house....

I couldn't've said it better myself.


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## Strong Mama (Feb 7, 2006)

Quote:

He has talked to me some more about the event that happened at my friends house. and he too wants me to feel out if the little girl is being molested. his words were :"how did she learn to do that?" somthing bad must have happened.... she shouldn't be in that house....
Can I just say that after 7 years of working with disabled adults in a working environment that most of them, though disabled are very smart when it comes to knowing whats right and wrong. For your brother to make this statement tells me def. something is not right. ((Hugs)) for your brother, he sounds like a super person!!


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

definitely talk to the mom. first your brother locked himself in the bathroom all day. if he was that upset it was cruel for her not to call you. and if he was that botheredshe could have at least told you when you got there.

I would say the little girls behavior was definitely odd. something is of somewhere even if it is not sexual abuse. perhaps starting with a counselor would be a good suggestion.


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## mama2toomany (Oct 17, 2005)

We added my brother to our cell phone plan so now he has his own cell phone and he can use it no matter what.

I still have not met my friend for tea... hopefully she will be available soon. I feel it is a conversation that should be in person.


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## mama_daba (Dec 7, 2004)

i didn't want to read this without saying something but i don't knwow hat to say

i thinks the little girl is being abused, and if eel so bad for you and your brother and what you went through as kids

i hope the little girl can get help soon, and i'm glad your brother got a cell phone


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## Ayala Eilon (Apr 8, 2006)

The fact that the hid it from you is a likely sign that knows what is really going on and embarassed about it. Be gentle but open. The Truth will set you free. Show that you care and are concerned. I wouldn't hide anything. Say what you are concerned about. I wouldn't report to child protection agency as there is nothing they can really do, and it will push your friend deeper into hiding.
Instead, suggest a phone session with a parenting expert. The best one I know is Dr. Naomi Aldort, author of the amazin book, Raising Our Children, Raising Ourselves. She counsels by phone very effectively.


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## mama2toomany (Oct 17, 2005)

Thank you!! I will look into that... very good idea!


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

I just wanted to add that this doesn't nessecarrily equal abuse.

I htink in this generations rush to embrace masturbation as normal and healthy some parents are just scared to place any sort of boundries on it. She may have just known thiat this was a way of getting attention. she also may have accidentally seen some porn (happened at my friends daycare. she popped in a video and walked out . . .wrong video!) that no one was willing or had any idea how to address. it could be explained any number of ways but st the same time it needs to be delt with in a way that is helpful for everyone and I htink the root of the behavior should at least be found (since it very well could be abuse) and delt with.


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## Red (Feb 6, 2002)

The problem isn't the daughter's masturbation.

The problem is that when your brother was uncomfortable and asked to call you, she said no. Who does she think hse is? How could she tell him no?

And if he spent the remainder of the day in the bathroom, she KNEW he waas upset and SHE should have told you. Period.

She betrayed his trust! And yours.


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## trinity6232000 (Dec 2, 2001)

Could it be that the Mother knows that her child has been
abused? Could be a explanation for why Mama is sleeping
a lot and seems depressed. Could explain why she avoided
telling the OP about what happened and how her brother
had reacted. Could be why she hasn't had the time to have
tea, and knows the conversation you want to have. Maybe
her daughter is getting help if she has been abused and Mama
is having a hard time dealing or sharing. Maybe Mama knows
her child has been abused and is trying to pretend it didn't
happen.

I am not exactly certain that the child has been abused. I
actually did very similar behavior as a child, at her age, in front
of my teenaged brother's friends, usually on their first visits
before they were commonplace at our home. I remember it
clearly. There was a thrill to shocking them. I remember feeling
instinctually sexual as a child. I see this in my dd and I do my
best to keep open communication with her on the subject.

My dd will be 6 in June. Neither of us were abused. I'm not
saying she hasn't been abused. I'm just saying it's not that cut
and dry.

I feel your friend betrayed your trust by not telling you what
happened while your brothers were visiting. Even if she is
embarrassed or my statements above are true, she needed
to suck it up and talk to you.

mama2toomany I just want to hug you and your brother.
You are such a strong lady. You and your brother are a
blessing to each other.


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## mama2toomany (Oct 17, 2005)

Well I have tried to call her... I know she goes to bed very early like 8pm... so I have been trying to phone her early in the morning or early afternoon... to no avail... I just can't get this event out of my head... that little girl is haunting me. I let my brother read these posts so he can feel the support you all offer... I think it helped so HUGE thanks to all of you!

Now since I have not been able to get her... and since I have not been able to sleep... I might have acted rash but I sent her a letter via email... I would like to share it with you all.

M***,

Hello. You have been very hard to get ahold of lately. I hope all is well with you and yours. I hate that I cannot talk to you about this in person. I truely have a heavy weight on my shoulders and I am hopeing we can work together to make things better.

Something happened at your house while my brothers were in your care. It concerns me. I first want to express my love for you and your family. I am just trying to make sence of this and I do hope that our friendship will not be tarnished by these events. As a parent I would want to know these things. As a parent and sister who is concerned I write to you.

When my brothers were at your house playing a video game. A***** sat down in front of them and started to masterbate. I could go further into detail but I have been informed that you are aware of what happened. The fact that she was touching herself is rather typical behavior for a child her age. What concerns me is the manner she did it in. She bared her skin and was forcefully yelling at them to "watch me, watch me" this is not typical behavior. I worry about A***** I think to myself "where would she learn to do this?" Could she have accidentally seen this somewhere? Maybe something so small as a "lesson at a friends house" or a misplaced movie? I am not saying your child has been abused but I am wishing you would look into the matter for her or with her. maybe a mother daughter talk? maybe a sit down with a child therapist? Please let me know how I can better support you as a friend and be there for you. My only wish is for a healthy family for you and a healthy friendship for us.

On to one more thing. Please do not take this the wrong way but I feel that your handling with my brothers was not the greatest. I trusted you with their care for the day. When my brothers stated that they where not comfortable and wanted to leave or call me. You denied them that. It crushes my heart to think of my brother needing me and not being able to get ahold of me. As a parent and a sister... this is the same for me.. I am his little sister but also his mother now. I simply cannot be quiet about this and let it lay. I would love for us to continue our friendship. I will however not be sending my brother to your house again. I think my brother deserves an appology from both of us. I should not have left him in a strange place. And you should have respected his request to call me and leave.

I am so sorry if this letter brings you pain. I truely hope we can work through this together. I want to make it clear that I am always here for you. If you want or need me feel free to call or stop by. My door is always open to you and your family...

Much Love.
C*


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## MelanieMC (Jul 7, 2005)

First of all, (((((Hugs))))) to you and your brother. I am so sorry that you all have had to go through this!








I don't know if the girl has been abused or not, but I do think there is something going on in that family. I agree with a pp that the fact that the woman wouldn't allow your brothers to call you is a big deal. That, paried with the actions of the girl and the possible depression of the mother makes me very worried. I hope that this little girl is okay.

I am glad that your brother was able to tell you what happened; now you can deal with this. I know it must have been hard for him to explain the girls actions to you, as this is a sensitive subject. I hope that this family will get help. I think your letter sounds good - you expressed your feelings clearly without sounding mean or accusing. I hope all goes well for you and your brother!


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## QuestionGal (Feb 19, 2006)

mom2many
Please keep us posted,


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## Red (Feb 6, 2002)

What a great letter. That is exactly what you should have said to her. The ball is in her court now.


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## Lynnseedoil (Aug 18, 2005)

s

What a well-written letter! I never could have said those things as well as you did! You've handled this beautifully. I hope your friend accepts what you've said with compassion, just as you've approached her with compassion. Please let us know how it turns out.


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## MillingNome (Nov 18, 2005)

I don't think a better letter could have been written. In fact, it may have worked out better to have a letter and not a talk.


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## gabysmom617 (Nov 26, 2005)




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## mama2toomany (Oct 17, 2005)

I got a letter from her today...

saying "nothing happened, your brothers are liars... If I hear of you mentioning my child in there lies I will take you to court"

In witch i replied

M

I never accused you or your child of anything. As a parent and your friend I had hoped that these red flags would concern you and motivate you to talk with A***** about things... I am so sorry you are choosing to name call and to deny these obvious warning signs. I do hope you can come to term with your childs cry for help.. I hope you both get the help you need to be a healthy family.

I have not heard back from her.


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## trmpetplaya (May 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2toomany*
I got a letter from her today...

saying "nothing happened, your brothers are liars... If I hear of you mentioning my child in there lies I will take you to court"

In witch i replied

M

I never accused you or your child of anything. As a parent and your friend I had hoped that these red flags would concern you and motivate you to talk with A***** about things... I am so sorry you are choosing to name call and to deny these obvious warning signs. I do hope you can come to term with your childs cry for help.. I hope you both get the help you need to be a healthy family.

I have not heard back from her.

wow.... you handled it very well, IMO. her response... just wow...

love and peace.


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## Fyrestorm (Feb 14, 2006)

I can't believe I'm gonna say this, I usually don't trust these people, but it might be time to call CPS


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## MissAbbyRosesMamma (Apr 28, 2006)

youve got tact! i would have flown off the handle! your brothers lucky to have you to look after him!


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## nikirj (Oct 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Fyrestorm*
I can't believe I'm gonna say this, I usually don't trust these people, but it might be time to call CPS

Yeah







. That. I think this needs investigation and you're not someone who can do it. And I think that they need to know the full story from you, first. It sounds like she knows she's covering something up







.


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## soygurl (Jan 28, 2006)

I have read the entire thread, and I agree with what many others have already said. The "watch me, watch me!" is a HUGE red flag for abuse. Your email was WONDERFUL. Based on her respons (and not mentioning the incedent when you picked your brothers up), it's time to go to CPS. From the little knowlege I have, they MUST investigate things once there has been a "tip" of possible abuse. Since your friend has made it very clear that she doesn't intend to do ANY investigation, someone needs to.

Ok... now purly as the devil's advocate







, but is there ANY posibility that your brothers were not telling the whole/exact truth about ANY part of the day? I'm guessing that there is NO doubt in your mind, but I also know that many people have trouble even considering the idea that a loved one may have lied. Please no flames...







I stand by my first paragraph, and apologize about this one. Based on your descriptons of your brother(s)'s behavior when your picked them up, and what he/they told you, I believe that the story you got is entirely the truth. Still, I don't know them (or you, or your firend), and I wasn't there, so I felt I had to at least mention it.

Hugs







, and lots of good wishes and strength to you, your family, and your friend and her daughter







. I hope everything can be worked out, and I REALLY hope that this little girl hasn't been hurt, and that there is some other explination for her behavior (though at this point I really doubt there is








).

~Kelsie


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## MelanieMC (Jul 7, 2005)

Her response just sends up even more red flags to me. I am usually against cps, but in this situation I think you've got no other choice. I would go in or call and fully explain what happend and the mothers response to your letter. Once you've contacted them they will begin to investigate. I wouldn't try to contact the mother of the girl again. It seems to me like she may know what has happened, and in that case she is part of it by trying to cover it up. Keep us updated.


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## Lisa85 (May 22, 2006)

Another one here who likes to avoid CPS at all costs. CLEARLY there is something wrong that happened to the family. Best case senario, she saw a movie she shouldn't have and Mom is to embarrased to handle it appropritely. I'd like to think that's what happened and that A***** was not abused, but you simply can't turn a blind eye to the things she did. And I agree with soygurl, make sure your brother's are telling the entire truth. I'm not saying they're lying, but if this girl is being abused and CPS finds out your brothers lied about anything (even something that doesn't matter) it could put a serious dent in the case.


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## Lynnseedoil (Aug 18, 2005)

Wow








I don't know how to respond to her letter. I truly hope that nothing bad has happened or is happening to that little girl. The fact that the mom won't even acknowledge that something *could* happen is so sad and scary.
About the CPS thing... I don't know. I can see the point but like everyone said, it's a warning sign, not a definite. Maybe nothing's happening and the mom knows it for sure? I'm not saying not to call. I'm just saying that I don't know what I would do. Good luck. I'm sure you'll make the right choice.


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## Mama8 (Mar 6, 2006)

Just wanted to say







to mama2toomany's brothers! I hope you have a







: day today.

Anyone else like to say a hi to mama2toomany's brothers?


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

call CPS.

that is all.


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## Maman*Musique (May 13, 2005)

I would be VERY careful. She sounds angry and like she is covering something up. What if she tries to implicate your brothers? When the truth comes out, which it eventually will, she (or the perpetrator) might try to place the blame on your brothers. Maybe it would be best to document every single thing right now. Interview your brothers and write down everything they say. Do you have a friend or family member who knows anything about law? Maybe they could advise you? I hate to sound paranoid but this friend mentions your brothers' lying, taking you to court, etc. That is worth worrying about.







What a horrible situation. You are a wonderful person trying to help this little girl. I think you also have to protect your family. Disabled people are often blamed in these situations - easy targets I guess.


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

I think once you report something to CPS it is illegal for the person to retaliate. but I am unsure of that.

I would also copy down everything in this thread from the get go. And yes, if you can get legal advice go ahead. I would even talk to CPS 'hypothetically' on 'what happens' if someone 'does report abuse'

make sure for the laws on retaliation and what not.


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## Maman*Musique (May 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
I think once you report something to CPS it is illegal for the person to retaliate. but I am unsure of that.

I would also copy down everything in this thread from the get go. And yes, if you can get legal advice go ahead. I would even talk to CPS 'hypothetically' on 'what happens' if someone 'does report abuse'

make sure for the laws on retaliation and what not.

I am not sure whether or not to call CPS but I just want to make sure the OP also realizes her brothers might be implicated. This coud happen regardless of CPS involvment. My thinking was that when the truth comes out (if this girl was in fact molested) the OPs brothers might be mentioned by the mother of the little girl. These thoughts are all independent of the CPS idea - I have no advice on CPS dealings.


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

true.

but I would think that the mothers email back to the OP saying nothing happened would sort of nullify her accusing one of them. According to her nothing happened. and wouldn't it have made more sense for her to report the OP's brothers if they had done something?

I would 'HOPE' that CPS would dig a bit deeper than a retalitory statement. But you are right.

the OP should look out for her family too.


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## julie128 (Jan 9, 2003)

When I read the initial post, my reaction, too, was "molested". It's possible that the mother masturbates in front of the girl, and that's where she got the "watch me" thing. Please speak with a social worker.


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## JoyofBirth (Mar 16, 2004)

I would call CPS and make a report. They will interview your brothers. Also, prrint a copy of both e-mails with all the pertinent date, time, email address, etc. information you can. I know everybody is skeptical of CPS because thtey can step on an NFL/AP prernts life and ruin it over beliefs. I have seen CPS do a lot of goood though ttoo. And they are pretty good about investigating abuse. At leastt around here. The mom's reaction is a bit extreme. I'm not entirely sure that this means she knows something or is a part of something. I was molestted when I was young. I believe my mother also was. She is a sweep it under the rug kind of person. She flipped out one day when my niece and nephew(who are brother and sister) were showing each others their butts in the backyard pool one day. She screamed and yelled and made them get dressed and spend time away from each other and then yelled some more. I think it just opened an old wound. There was nothing going on. Sometimes people who have been wounded don't know how else to react. I would definitely contact CPS. The story could change drarmatically and you want to be sure your brothers are on record while it's still fresh. As time goes on details will fade and the mom could say she didn't know something happened and then her daughter gave her a different story later that involved your brothers. Good luck to you and your brothers. Be sure to tell them both that they did the right thing to tell you. And be sure they know that if they ever want to contact you and are told no to make a big fuss until they are aloowed to contact you.


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## grisandole (Jan 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JoyofBirth*
I would call CPS and make a report. They will interview your brothers. Also, prrint a copy of both e-mails with all the pertinent date, time, email address, etc. information you can. I know everybody is skeptical of CPS because thtey can step on an NFL/AP prernts life and ruin it over beliefs. I have seen CPS do a lot of goood though ttoo. And they are pretty good about investigating abuse. At leastt around here. The mom's reaction is a bit extreme. I'm not entirely sure that this means she knows something or is a part of something. I was molestted when I was young. I believe my mother also was. She is a sweep it under the rug kind of person. She flipped out one day when my niece and nephew(who are brother and sister) were showing each others their butts in the backyard pool one day. She screamed and yelled and made them get dressed and spend time away from each other and then yelled some more. I think it just opened an old wound. There was nothing going on. Sometimes people who have been wounded don't know how else to react. I would definitely contact CPS. The story could change drarmatically and you want to be sure your brothers are on record while it's still fresh. As time goes on details will fade and the mom could say she didn't know something happened and then her daughter gave her a different story later that involved your brothers. Good luck to you and your brothers. Be sure to tell them both that they did the right thing to tell you. And be sure they know that if they ever want to contact you and are told no to make a big fuss until they are aloowed to contact you.









Print out the emails and call. It does sound like something is truly off.


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## Sijae (May 5, 2006)

If I were you I would be looking out for my family pretty carefully. I'd want to have the report to CPS come from you and the truth about your brothers involvement on record soon. I worry that if the girl is being abused she could easily transfer that to your brothers and accuse them if the real abuser is someone she loves or is very scared of or both. And your brothers being 28 and 15 would be prime targets. And aren't the statutes of limitations on sexual abuse being extended in many states?










Good luck,
Laura


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## mama2toomany (Oct 17, 2005)

I did call CPS and let them know about what happened..they said someone would get back to me.

I only did this after my latest email from her this morning. Stating that if I told anyone anything about her house or her child she would "kick my ass"

Makes me sad but what can I do?

I also own a babysitting coop and a mothers play group and have since banned her.

I just can't get the denial out of my head.

I would also like to mention that when this happened and my brother told me about this we were alone... and then i spoke to my younger brother alone also with no outside influence. They both said pretty much the same thing but in different words. My older brother is sick to even think about it. I have asked him plenty of times if what he said was :all that happened" I let him know that it is not too late if he has left things out.... that I would not be mad at him.... I am 100% positive he is telling me the truth... same for my little brother.

Had it just been my little brother telling me this I would not be so sure... But having my older brother tell me I am 100% sure.

My younger brother is back home now (in another state) But my brother is starting to see a therapst next week to talk about this and anything else he needs to talk about.

I feel like he was the one molested. I know that might seem silly... And my heart breaks for A***** but If it comes down to it I will bare knuckle box for my brother. I am not a violent woman AT ALL. and I hate confrontation but he is so dear to me, Like my own child that I have the mama bear syndrom.... the scariest place in the world is between a mother and her child ....

But I will not resort to threats or argueing like my former Friend is doing... it is not worth it.


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## grisandole (Jan 11, 2002)

Good for you! Her reaction seals my suspicions, that is not a normal way to act, kwim?

Print out copies of all the emails for CPS, so that you will be covered and they will be aware that she is irrational and wishes to cause your family strife.

I'm sending energy your way


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

i am glad you have the heart and guts to follow this through.

really is awesome. I hope that we are all mistaken, but my gut tells me otherwise..... That lil girl needs all the help she can get if her mom doesn't know enough to protect her.


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## mama2toomany (Oct 17, 2005)

Thanks!! I really appreciate all the input I got here. I spoke to a few friends and members of my board... without saying what happened... Just asked if there was anything 'off' they noticed..

wow! one mother said that she showed up and my former friend was sleeping while she was babysitting 3 four yr olds... and a bunch of other things that are kinda weird... So I am suprised no one mentioned anything before.

Thank you everyone!

Yoshua
I love your siggy!


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## bewitchedmama (Apr 25, 2006)

ok--my opinion again

I generally will run from CPS as well, and I work with them daily..but in an instance like this when you can't get the parents to intervene appropriately, it's time to call in the authorities who will force her to deal with the issues.

I prefer, and counsel my parents to deal with it with a professional if at all possible, but this doesn't sound possible at this juncture.

Whatever the case, the child has been exposed to some innappropriate behavior, and needs intervention before it escalates or the child actually becomes a statistic.

I applaud you for you concern and your compassionate approach to help a child who is so obviously suffering.

Usually, when a child acts out, they are screaming for someone to notice without any verbalization at all.

Please continue with your persistence, society needs more people like you.


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## Jennifer Z (Sep 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2toomany*
I feel like he was the one molested. I know that might seem silly...

That doesn't seem silly to me at all. That sound insightful. It sounds like it reflects how he feels. I am very glad you are getting him help (the therapist). He needs his feeling validated and help healing so he can get past this. He might not have been "molested", but I would think it would certainly be considered "sexual harrasment", which is in the same vein and causes emotional scarring too.

Like many PPs said, document...document...document. I know there are bad CPS workers out there, but the vast majority went into the field to help, not to seek revenge or rip apart families. I really don't think you will have a problem. I think it will be pretty evident that you are coming from a place of concern, not malice. I also think it will be pretty clear that she is not reacting in an appropriate manner to the behaviour of her dd.


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## mama2toomany (Oct 17, 2005)

Today a social worker came to talk to my brother. She came in to us, witch was very nice of her. She seemed to understand he was more "delayed" than he really is... She brought the anitomically correct dolls and all that. But he was very brave and told her (alone) everything that happened.

I am unsure of what will happen after this... She seems to think it is a problem and will "look into it"

And she also mentioned after I printed up all the emails. that we should try to get a temporary restraining order against her.

So I will be looking into that tomorrow.


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## ~member~ (May 23, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2toomany*
Today a social worker came to talk to my brother. She came in to us, witch was very nice of her. She seemed to understand he was more "delayed" than he really is... She brought the anitomically correct dolls and all that. But he was very brave and told her (alone) everything that happened.

I am unsure of what will happen after this... She seems to think it is a problem and will "look into it"

And she also mentioned after I printed up all the emails. that we should try to get a temporary restraining order against her.

So I will be looking into that tomorrow.









So glad you took your brothers seriously. I hope you and your family find safety and peace.


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## Joannarachel (Dec 10, 2005)

I've been following this thread. As a survivor of abuse, I want to give you an enormous







for helping that poor little girl.

I hope your brothers find peace


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## mama2toomany (Oct 17, 2005)

I remember when I was 17? I was asked by a social worker to go on a radio station and talk about my abuse... I couldn't do it... to this day I regret that.

I used to think social workers did not do there job... keeping children safe. Bare with me this may be a bit long. But will explain some of why I fear nothing will happen for this little girl... Lets pray that times have changed.

When I was 8 I was in 3rd grade and was sick for two weeks. I couldn't go to school so when I went back to school I had all this homework.. they sent me home with it all and never showed me how to do it... So My mother sent me to the basement to do it... I would come up once and hour.. she would see that I didn't do any of it and I would get a spanking... with a tephalon spoon because the "wooden ones break" finally after about 4 spankings I started to scream "I can't do it if you don't show me how" My mother picked me up and threw me onto a kitchen chair... she smaked me so hard my head went rolling into the corner of a table... the edge of the table cut into my eyeball and I began to bleed and swell very badly. She put ice on it and told me "when your dad gets home you tell him you fell down the stairs, you tell him that or I will kill you tonight:" I believed her! So when my father came home that is what I said... I fell down the stairs.

The swelling got worse and worse and the bleeding was bad.. so after two days my mom thought maybe she should take me to a doctor,,,, I never got to talk to the dr... I fell down the stairs... Dr told mother I had a ruptured cornia and that I would need some physical therapy to get things ok again.....

I went back to school.... I planned all night what I was going to do... I was going to tell my teacher Mrs. Mathews what really happened... then some person would come and take me and my brother away and I would never have to go back home. I would get a new nicer mommy. It was perfect right?

Well I went to school and got scared and didn't say anything. My teacher asked me what happened to my eye and I said like a robot... I fell down the stairs... she didn't buy that.... she called the police... they took me into a room by the principles office and asked me to tell them the truth.. they knew i didn't fall down the stairs... if I did where are my other injuries... i showed them bruises on my back and they said "well those look old to me" so i was going to get into trouble I had to tell them the truth because I didn't want to go to jail because I lied to the police...

I said "my mom did it" i told them everything I could remember... everything I could think of... what she did to us everyday... what was going to happen to me if she found out I talked to them... what she does to my brother. That my father didn't help us. That I was scared to go home.

They called in social workers... then they called my mom.... she came in... I remember her looking at me like she wanted to hurt me. they sent me out into the hallway and I remember hereing my mother cry that she lost her temper at me... she didn't know why... she was a horrible mother... she never ment to hurt me... on and on i can't forget her crying.

I was so excited... I was going to be taken away! I was going to get to leave. I mean I told them what happened and she was in there crying about doing this to me... thank God ... I prayed all the time for this one moment to happen.

Then the social workers and cops came back into the hall way and I will never forget ever what I heard them say

I heard my mom say :Am I going to lose her?

and the social worker said "ma'am If I thought there was reason to believe your daughter life was in danger she would be in a squad car right now.

Then they told her to take me home... get some counseling.... I got home and went into my room and just waited,... i thought she was going to kill me... she came in and picked up my box fan and hit me in the head with it 3 times. and my family never spoke about what happened. there was no court no nothing..no shrink... I went to physical therapy for my eye... and still have sight problems with it today. So that is why I hated CPS they failed me.

Then about 6 years ago... my mother found a new family to abuse.. they had a 3 yr old son.. and i was sure she was torturing him like she did us.... I called CPS but didn't have vailid evidance the child was in danger. SO I spoke to a worker on the phone... her name was tina.. I called everyday until they went there... my mom lost custody of her 3 yr old step son... her husband at the time stayed with her until the end... the boy i think was adopted... I don't really know.

My mother died 3 years ago in her sleep. I tell myself everyday to forgive her... I do.. she was clearly sick and she was most definatly evil. I tell myself that God wants me to forgive her... I do but I just can't forget about it. I always think about how my life would be if they would have taken me and my brother away from her that day... I would have had 8 less years of abuse behind my belt... who knows.

I really hope things are better and the meeting with the social worker felt good... I am trying to put my faith in the system.. but it is hard.

Sorry this was so long and winded. just had to get that out of me.


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## KatyMom (Apr 25, 2006)

I'm so sorry that you had to endure that growing up. I'm so sorry that the system failed you. Please try to remember that back in the day, the system failed many a battered wife and child. Many people are working hard everyday to change the system, unfortunately it doesn't change overnight. I hope that the system doesn't fail this child as well.

Please take some comfort in the fact that you did not fail this child. You did not look the other way, or make up some excuse to write-off her behaviour. I applaud your efforts. You have handled yourself with intelligence and class.

As for this....

Quote:

My mother died 3 years ago in her sleep. I tell myself everyday to forgive her... I do.. she was clearly sick and she was most definatly evil. I tell myself that God wants me to forgive her... I do but I just can't forget about it. I always think about how my life would be if they would have taken me and my brother away from her that day... I would have had 8 less years of abuse behind my belt... who knows.
Speaking as a survivor of abuse - You can forgive, but you never forget. I applaud you once more for taking steps to make sure that you do not repeat the mistakes of the past. It can be so easy to become angry and slip into the role of abuser, after all, it's all we know.


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## Mama8 (Mar 6, 2006)

I too speak as a survivor of abuse. There can be a time when what happened to you will not beat you down anymore. You will never forget but there can be a time when it does not define you.









I light a candle in memory of all the little children who have lost their childhood to abuse may they never be forgotten. Sometimes I cry for the little girl who was.









Sorry didn't mean to hijack the thread.


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## mama2toomany (Oct 17, 2005)

Oh you didn't hijack anything!!!




























I thought your post was lovely!


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## Joannarachel (Dec 10, 2005)

mama2toomany...

I was also failed miserably by the people who could have helped me, who could have prevented years, and years of abuse.

I know if I met the woman who was responsible for failing me, even now I could push her into traffic and not feel a single bit of guilt about it.


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## Starflower (Sep 25, 2004)

The fact that the system failed you as a child so horribly and you still had the courage to go through the system to help A****** is commendable.

My thoughts and prayers are with you and your brothers and that little girl.

You and your brothers sound like amazing people.


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## stellimamo (Jan 9, 2006)

OP- congradulations on stopping the cycle of violence and then going one step further and speaking out.


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## trinity6232000 (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2toomany*
Sorry this was so long and winded. just had to get that out of me.

Don't apologize mama2toomany. Reading your post, and this whole
thread has been incredibly healing for me.


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## mama2toomany (Oct 17, 2005)

I feel so much better today.... I felt so mad when I wrote that post above... I feel very light today... communication has a way of making things much much better.


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## niblet (Jan 12, 2002)

I couldn't read this thread without offering







. You have done the right thing, from believing your brother, to writing that very eloquent letter, and contacting CPS. You are one strong mama.


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## shelbean91 (May 11, 2002)

mama2toomany- I just want to say what a strong person you are, for yourself, for your brothers, for your neighbor. To be able to want to forgive after what happened to you is amazing.

Thank you for doing your best to help that little girl.


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## Greensleeves (Aug 4, 2004)

I feel so sad for the little girl you were.........give her a big hug from all of us. You didn't deserve to be treated that way as a child.

Kudos for all you are doing for your brother and the little 5 year old girl now.


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## Jennymom33 (Oct 2, 2005)

I believe that it is perfectly normal for a child to do this. However, I know how upsetting it probably was for your brother. I think you should talk to both partes about the situation together.


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## mama2toomany (Oct 17, 2005)

You mean to talk to my brother with M*** there? I would never do that... my brother is afraid of this person...


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## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennymom33*
I believe that it is perfectly normal for a child to do this.

I've been sitting back watching the thread unfold, and I'm sort of amazed. Am I the only mom sitting here thinking 'o dear lord, please don't let MY child masturbate in front of someone!'

There are many, many circumstances in which a happy, healthy kid can come to act out sexually. Sure, one possible explanation would be sexual abuse by an adult, but there are just so many others.


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## mama2toomany (Oct 17, 2005)

I am not saying this child HAS been abused... but I am saying the behaivor in front of strangers is a red flag... the mother's abilty to lash out and threaten physical harm... when the email was writen very gentle..... these things scare me... also some other things have come to light that are also red flags to me..

the mother sleeping while 3 4 yr olds run around... her dd telling grown man to "watch me watch me"

Her dd has been babysat by several mothers I know... one reported A***** trying to undress her 4 year old and screaming and hitting her when she wouldn't.

Not one of these things scream molestation... but if the mother isn't willing to at least try to help her daughter cope with these erges... or at least tell her what is appropriate for company... what is ok for her eyes only... Why should I sit back and say "well maybe but I am not sure" I have been failed before... I would hate for this to be this child's one time to get help IF she needs it and I did nothing.


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## KatyMom (Apr 25, 2006)

I have to agree with the OP - mama2toomany.
While the mastrubation incident, by itself, did not scream abuse. It did cause one to pause and say "hmmmmm, maybe I should investigate this".

Then you add in:

The mother's depression. _I'm not saying every depressed mother's home is a den of abuse._

The mother's attempt to evade the OP, when she knew she would have some serious questions to answer.

The mother's attempt to hide the incident. Lying by ommission to the OP.

The mother's behaviour towards the OP brother. Not letting him call her, and allowing him to lock himself in a bathroom for an extended period of time.

The mother's aggressive behaviour towards the OP when she approached, what is a very sensitive subject, in a very calm rational manner. This mother is threatening physical violence against the OP.

The mother telling the OP that her brother is lying.

And then we have this new piece of information that is coming to light....

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2toomany*
Her dd has been babysat by several mothers I know... one reported A***** trying to undress her 4 year old and screaming and hitting her when she wouldn't.

Please...while not one of these things, by themselves, scream molestation, once you look at all of the pieces, how can you sit there and not be in the least concerned for the health and welfare of this child? I am shocked and appalled that anyone would try to justify the behaviour of this mother. Even if the child has not been molested, her home life is screwed-up to say the least. It appears that she is being neglected by her mother or, Goddess forbid, the child is being sexually abused. It also appears that many of the OP friends have had pieces to this puzzle with no one seeing the entire picture, until now.

This child needs help...

Edited to remove baiting comments made.


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## cynthia mosher (Aug 20, 1999)

I have removed many posts from this thread. While I see no issue in a member expressing an opinion contrary to that of the majority of other members posting to the thread, that opinion and really all opinions, should be expressed in a civil, respectful manner. At some point that was not done and the thread digressed into statements that were personal and attacking. As well, the discussion turned into something beyond the OP's issue and one of a discussion about appropriate and inappropriate sexual behavior in young children. For these reasons, the inappropriate and off topic posts have been removed.

Let's return the discussion in this thread to that which the OP asked for input and advice on and with due respect and appreciation for the emotions and issues that this incident and discussion holds for the OP and her family.

A separate discussion of sexual behavior in young children can be posted to The Childhood Years or Parenting Issues.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Private PM. Erroneously posted.

Apologies.

Pat


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## KatyMom (Apr 25, 2006)

I posted this last night and it was removed...

To Mama2toomany - I 100% support your decision to involve the authorities, the ? of "what if" was too big to ignore. Your brother sounds like a sensitive soul, we need more of these in this cold-hearted world. Give him a big hug from me, and let him know that he did the right thing by telling you.

To Blessed - While I do not agree with some of the things that you posted, I respect the passion that you posted them with. I understand that you were trying to respect the rights of the child, please understand that was what I was also trying to do. I would be happy to discuss the sexuality issue in another thread, if you're willing to post to it. I didn't have time to read the links you, so kindly, provided, and I feel that they would be a good jumping off point for a new, calmer, discussion. It's amazing what stepping away from a heated thread can do for your POV.


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## Cutie Patootie (Feb 29, 2004)

I posted this last night as well and it was removed...

I think any sane man would not feel comfortable being found in the same room as a 5 yo who is masterbating, especially one who has been downtrodden his whole life. {{{Big Hugs}}} to your brother.


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## mama2toomany (Oct 17, 2005)

Thank you all very much for all of your responses.. I do appreciate every last one of them!

Thank you for gentling the thread Cynthia.

I will update when i can about anything that happens!


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## Jael (Mar 5, 2006)

This type of behavior is NOT normal. Neither is your friend's reaction when your brothers complained about it. I know you said that you won't send them over there again, but please be careful not to have them (or you or your spouse) alone with this child EVER. A misplaced accusation of sexual abuse isn't unheard of in these cases. I would definitely encourage my friend to seek help for her daughter and, if she continues to shine it on as nothing, then I'd contact the authorities.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bewitchedmama*
here goes even if you don't want to hear it
that child has been molested

that is not normal masturbatory behavior for a five year old child--to do it in front of older kids, even an adult
that is NOT NORMAL i repeat

being a good citizen, you need to report this to Children's Protective Services it's up to you if you want to tell the mom or not but you can file a complaint anonymously

i work with sexually abused children and this behavior is a HUGE red flag of serious abuse

my two cents take it or leave it


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## Jael (Mar 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka*
...she also may have accidentally seen some porn (happened at my friends daycare. she popped in a video and walked out . . .wrong video!) that no one was willing or had any idea how to address. ...

I'm sorry, Lily, but I'm having difficulty understanding how this happens in a daycare setting. I don't mean to corrupt the thread, but aren't pornagraphic videos kept separately from the children's entertainment videos in a daycare? Is this a licensed facility? Again, sorry for the corruption, but that part of your comment just jumped out at me and has me quite curious.


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## Jael (Mar 5, 2006)

I've finally finished reading the whole thread. Big ups to you Mama2toomany for your gentle, but assertive handling of the whole situation. I believe you did the right thing and for the right reasons. Even if the child isn't being abused, her mom is in obvious need of help. I only pray she finally gets it.


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## Pandora114 (Apr 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jael*
I'm sorry, Lily, but I'm having difficulty understanding how this happens in a daycare setting. I don't mean to corrupt the thread, but aren't pornagraphic videos kept separately from the children's entertainment videos in a daycare? Is this a licensed facility? Again, sorry for the corruption, but that part of your comment just jumped out at me and has me quite curious.

Acctually, my cousin bought a Telletubbies video a few years ago to show her DC as one of those "I need a break moments" It was in the celophane, brand spanking new VHS tape.

She turned it on, left the room, and her DD ran out to find her and said

"Mummy! Bad things on TV !!! eeww"

She walked back in and it was a porno vid...

So yeah things like this can and do happen.


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## Jael (Mar 5, 2006)

Makes sense, Pandora, and I've heard of that happening before although it's usually a very rare, even newsworthy occurence. I wonder if this is what happened in Lilly's friend's case?


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## AlexsMom (Jun 3, 2006)

I have to agree with bewitchedmama.

I was abused sexually by a baby sitter and an uncle at around the same age. I won't go into detail but I was caught masterbating by my mom at the same age. I was in the living room mindlessly watching tv and just playing with myself not realizing it was not appropriate to do. My mom caught me and asked me what I was doing and why. we had a good relationship so I felt comfortable telling her. At first I thought she was mad at me but then realized her fury was not directed at me. So she hugged me then called the police. I remember being interviewed by a woman who treated me like a baby holding up an anatomically correct doll and asking me questions about what happened. so I just told her in very explicit language (my mom had educated me about sex early on but left out the part about not masterbating in public not realizing it would ever be an issue). I told the investigater precisely what the baby sitter had done and what my uncle had done.

I did not need to go to court because both my molesters plea bargained and both went to prison.

my point is, take it from some one who knows. While it is possible she discovered masterbation on her own, it is more likely that someone showed her and that mother needs to find out who. By the mother's reaction I think she already knows and has chosen to ignore it rather then dealing with it and possibly is even the one abusing the little girl.

calling DCYF or such may or may not do any good because they may not feel that a little girl who masterbates is sufficient evidence of abuse.

I am not a social worker but I would guess that you need to tread carefully here. if it turns out that no abuse is involved the process of investigation could be extremely traumatic for a 5 year old girl. If it turns out she is being abused she needs to be rescued from the situation.


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

I am really sorry about what you went through. That must have been horrible.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AlexsMom*
While it is possible she discovered masterbation on her own, it is more likely that someone showed her and that mother needs to find out who.

This just plain isn't true. 90% of kids discover masturbation on their own. I feel I have to say something because I would hate for all the moms reading this to think, just because their child has been known to mindlessly mastaurbate in front of the tv, this means they were abused. This is very, very common. In fact, a child who has never done this would be in the rare minority.


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## mama2toomany (Oct 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AlexsMom*
I have to agree with bewitchedmama.

I was abused sexually by a baby sitter and an uncle at around the same age. I won't go into detail but I was caught masterbating by my mom at the same age. I was in the living room mindlessly watching tv and just playing with myself not realizing it was not appropriate to do. My mom caught me and asked me what I was doing and why. we had a good relationship so I felt comfortable telling her. At first I thought she was mad at me but then realized her fury was not directed at me. So she hugged me then called the police. I remember being interviewed by a woman who treated me like a baby holding up an anatomically correct doll and asking me questions about what happened. so I just told her in very explicit language (my mom had educated me about sex early on but left out the part about not masterbating in public not realizing it would ever be an issue). I told the investigater precisely what the baby sitter had done and what my uncle had done.

I did not need to go to court because both my molesters plea bargained and both went to prison.

my point is, take it from some one who knows. While it is possible she discovered masterbation on her own, it is more likely that someone showed her and that mother needs to find out who. By the mother's reaction I think she already knows and has chosen to ignore it rather then dealing with it and possibly is even the one abusing the little girl.

calling DCYF or such may or may not do any good because they may not feel that a little girl who masterbates is sufficient evidence of abuse.

I am not a social worker but I would guess that you need to tread carefully here. if it turns out that no abuse is involved the process of investigation could be extremely traumatic for a 5 year old girl. If it turns out she is being abused she needs to be rescued from the situation.

I just wanted to give you a hug


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

I have removed a number of posts from this thread. If members would like to discuss what is normal sexual behaviour in children, then please start a new thread. Please keep this thread on topic. Again.


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## Fafyrd (May 15, 2006)

I guess I can't relate to the "discovering masterbation on your own" camp although I'm not saying it couldn't happen. I learned about it in Health Class. Plus my daughter has never done it that I know of, and if so definately not in front of anyone.

There's just so many variables that could have occured with this child that it's hard to say. If I were in the original poster's shoes I would definately be thinking there's something wrong because of the attitude of the child's mother, even though she could be covering up just about anything.

Sorry your brothers were put in this position and hope everything turns out well.


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## mama2toomany (Oct 17, 2005)

Thanks!!

My brother is seeing a therapist once a week. He seems to like the Dr. alot. So it is a good thing. I think he used the first visit as a sounding board and to vent and i was proud at him for being so open. Now he is pretty much past the event and talking more about every day life and stuff.

I took him shopping the other day and let him pick out a new sling to baby wear his kitten. He likes that.... he seems pretty much back to normal. But I am glad he has someone other than me to talk to. I like to talk to him but I think it helps for men to talk to men sometimes and maybe that helps him.

Hes a good egg.

CPS came last week and took another statement from him and recorded it with our permission... still no word on if or when anything will be done...


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## ~member~ (May 23, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2toomany*
Thanks!!

My brother is seeing a therapist once a week. He seems to like the Dr. alot. So it is a good thing. I think he used the first visit as a sounding board and to vent and i was proud at him for being so open. Now he is pretty much past the event and talking more about every day life and stuff.

I took him shopping the other day and let him pick out a new sling to baby wear his kitten. He likes that.... he seems pretty much back to normal. But I am glad he has someone other than me to talk to. I like to talk to him but I think it helps for men to talk to men sometimes and maybe that helps him.

Hes a good egg.

CPS came last week and took another statement from him and recorded it with our permission... still no word on if or when anything will be done...









I am happy to hear things are going better.
Your brothers are so lucky to have you in their lives.


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## Ellien C (Aug 19, 2004)

Wow to Mama2tooMany. You are an amazing woman. I was going to say the before I got the part where you told us about your childhood and now I'm amazed and in awe of you. Your friends are richer for having you in their life and I'm blessed to have read your story here. You are such an inspiration for diplomacy and non-judgemental assertive communication.


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## trinity6232000 (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ellien C*
Wow to Mama2tooMany. You are an amazing woman. I was going to say the before I got the part where you told us about your childhood and now I'm amazed and in awe of you. Your friends are richer for having you in their life and I'm blessed to have read your story here. You are such an inspiration for diplomacy and non-judgemental assertive communication.


















: AMEN to that. Mama2tooMany with every one of your posts I am
more impressed with your compassion and love for your family. I'm sorry
this situation happened. I am sorry that your brother's had this experience.
But I am so grateful for this thread, to hear your story, to learn from it.
I am also glad that your brother has found another person to talk to. It's
always good to have people to talk to.


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## siouxm (May 30, 2006)

I sat here in tears reading about this situation and your life experience.







s to you and your brother.


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## KatyMom (Apr 25, 2006)

I'm just catching up on this thread after being out all last weekend and wanted to let everyone know that a thread on sexual behaviour in children was started in The Childhood Years after the moderator stepped in last time.

Mama2TooMany - I'm glad to hear that your brother is regaining his sense of normalacy. I hope things are settleing out. Good luck to you both.


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## mama2toomany (Oct 17, 2005)

Wow you all honor me so much with your kind words. Thank you everyone.


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## Revamp (May 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2toomany*
Wow you all honor me so much with your kind words. Thank you everyone.

You are worth every word and more.

I am so sorry for your suffering.


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## mama2toomany (Oct 17, 2005)

Well one of my close friends who is also a friend of the mother, called me to let me know that some social workers came over to M***'s house to talk to A***** and that was all she knew?


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

It's good to know that at least something is happening, however slowly. Thanks for letting us know, Mama.

Healing thoughts to your brother, too.


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## Starflower (Sep 25, 2004)

Thanks for the update.


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## anj119 (Sep 19, 2002)

mamma2toomany,

I know it was suggested earlier, at least i think it was, to consider getting a restraining order against A*****'s mother as her initial response to you was extremely defensive and threatening. Now that CP has contacted her, I find myself worrying that she might try to make good on those threats.... to kick your ***, or something stupid like that.

Maybe you've already addressed this...... I just wanted to join in the other mommas here with expressing my admiration for your exemplary handling of this situation. My hat is off to you, mamma2toomany, and to your brother.








Warmest regards,
anj119


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