# what do you do when other people try disciplining your child?



## majormajor (Nov 3, 2006)

i mostly mean the more teaching kind of discipline. sometimes other mothers will do things like offer my DD a snack, and then say, "what do you say?" or, "what's the magic word?" this irks me. why offer her a snack and then make her say please? besides, it's not your job. some of these moms we see a lot at the playground. do i say something? it doesn't seem to bother DD, but it bothers me!
thanks. oh, she's 3.5.


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## ians_mommy (Apr 5, 2008)

I would say something.
Maybe something along the lines of, "Thank you for offering DD a snack, but please dont prompt her to say please, thank you etc"
It may tick them off, but I dont much care what casual acquantences think of me.


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## tinuviel_k (Apr 29, 2004)

Honestly, unless it is a huge boundary line for me I let it go. My feeling is that my child is going to need to learn (to some degree) to act by other people's rules in situations away from the home. Our sociaty and culture has certain 'rules" or nicities, and while many of them can go hang, IMO, there are a few rules or customs that I don't mind others haring with my child, if done in a polite, loving way.

If I am having dinner with my good friend and neighbor and she offers me a glass of water I automatically say, "Yes please." or "Thank you so much, I'd love one."

If my daughter forgets to extend the same courtesy (which is often at that age), while I might not make her "say please" at home, I don't really mind someone else encouraging her to do so in a social situation. If the demands got out of hand of course I would feel fine intervening, "Mary, thank you for trying to help Denali remember her manners, but that is not quite the way we do this at our house. We prefer to..."


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## syd'smom (Sep 23, 2008)

We're having the same issue - but with close friends. I know they mean well, and think they should do the whole "teaching manners" thing b/c "everyone" does it, and if it's done once, I let it slide, but when they keep asking and promting again and again (happened once when dd was about 19 mos and barely talking), I just don't know what to do. We don't do that kind of prompting, but if I say that we don't do that or don't want them to do it to our kid, then it sounds like I'm questioning their parenting b/c I know they do it. And I know it is confusing, b/c in a way they are kinda questioning my parenting, but....argggg.....these are close friends. And I will expect my daughter to have proper manners, but she is just over 2, and I believe she will learn more by modelling than prompting. If anyone has any great comments/ideas, I need to hear them too! ;0


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## Daphneduck (Jan 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tinuviel_k* 
Honestly, unless it is a huge boundary line for me I let it go. My feeling is that my child is going to need to learn (to some degree) to act by other people's rules in situations away from the home. Our sociaty and culture has certain 'rules" or nicities, and while many of them can go hang, IMO, there are a few rules or customs that I don't mind others haring with my child, if done in a polite, loving way.

If I am having dinner with my good friend and neighbor and she offers me a glass of water I automatically say, "Yes please." or "Thank you so much, I'd love one."

If my daughter forgets to extend the same courtesy (which is often at that age), while I might not make her "say please" at home, I don't really mind someone else encouraging her to do so in a social situation. If the demands got out of hand of course I would feel fine intervening, "Mary, thank you for trying to help Denali remember her manners, but that is not quite the way we do this at our house. We prefer to..."

This is pretty much how I feel. If a person close to me disciplines their own children in the same fashion that I discipline mine, I really don't have a problem with it. If they are harsh or overly insistent, I would stop them. That being said, I have only once prompted someone else's child to say please, in the presence of the parent. In that case the child was repeatedly demanding and rude and I think I said. "If you'd like for me to refill your cup, you will need to ask me politely." Normally if the parent doesnt remind them I wont either. I just assume that the parent is trying to teach them through modeling, rather than reminding. I'll be irritated though, if the child never says please and thank you.


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## Biscuits & Gravy (Jul 17, 2008)

This is a HUGE pet peeve for me. I spent all of last month around family, and they all did this to DS. It drove me absolutely insane. I especially can't stand "What is the magic word??". However, I chose to let it go. It was not worth the fight to me. If I knew we were going to be around the person on a regular basis I would absolutely say something. But we were moving away and won't see them for months, so I let it go. If I were to say something I would do it in private, away from my child, after the situation occurred.


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## majormajor (Nov 3, 2006)

thank you for the thoughts. i'm not sure i'm brave enough to actually say anything... i'd like to teach my daughters to be braver than me though, so maybe i should suck it up. my daughter is really a very sweet and polite girl. she always responds cheerfully to adults, looks them in the eye, and very often remembers to say thank you (please, not as often). she almost never remembers to say "excuse me" if she's interrupting a conversation, because if she's interrupting, it's because she's 3 and excited about something, you know? sometimes it feels like an adult is picking on her when they needle her about manners when she's already a very respectful and positive child.

gah. i'm still not sure if i need to say something, or if her manners good enough for 3.5 and other people need to cut her some slack.


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## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

I just answer for my kid.


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## angelcat (Feb 23, 2006)

I think it's fine. I expect my daughter to use her manners, and I think it's great if other people remind her as well. It takes village, right?


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## PlayaMama (Apr 1, 2007)

honestly? ds's response to what is the magic word is "abracadabra". he came up with that on his own.

it's a huge pet peeve for me and i will usually just either interrupt and say, "so-and-so would like you to ask politely."

or i'll just say please or thank you for him. takes the pressure off of him and makes the person think a little.

though, i have to say, my ds is one of the most polite little boys i've ever met and we have never prompted him to say please or thank you. if he says it fine, if he doens't fine. sometimes if i'm in a bad mood and i need a little courtesy i will say, "can you please be polite when you ask me for that?"

he's polite because we're polite with him, not because hes told what to do! ugh.







:


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## kiwiva (Apr 17, 2006)

I find it annoying when people say that too because such a huge deal is made of it. We had dinner with my parents last night so I heard it a lot. DD is 28 mos and does say please and thank you but not all the time.

I answer for DD and rephrase the request for her (I do this at home too) "oh you'd like more water, please?" I do it while complying with her request. I absolutely cannot stand when they sit there not giving her something bc please hasn't been said yet.

The thing I find most annoying about it is that adults often don't say please and then they turn around and insist a child say it before they comply. DD has gotten the manners by modeling.

I think with excuse me, I might remind DD that we say that when interrupting a conversation, but really I don't understand when adults get all worked up about that one with kids this young. I think it'd be impt to remind her so she'll get it eventually but I don't think she is a rude, mannerless kid because she forgets to say it in her excitement, yk?

I think "what's the magic word" is so ingrained for some people that even if you request they don't prompt DD they may be unable to help themselves (I know my parents would never get it!), so answering for her may work.


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

While annoying, I look at it as a "pick your battle/life's too short" type of thing, and try to keep it in perspective and let it go.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

It wouldn't bother me.


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## Paeta16 (Jul 24, 2007)

It doesn't bother me too much from people who spend quite a bit of time with us. I tend to say this as a reminder to DD occasionally. That being said, she now _knows_ when to say please and TY and if she doesn't then no big deal.

My cousin who sees my daughter about 3 times per year was staying with us last week and kept saying this to her. Finally I got so annoyed that I said "She doesn't have to thank me for giving her lunch. That is my job as her parent." His reply was "It is always good to teach children to respect their mothers by using please and TY." To which I replied not so kindly with "She _*does*_ say please and TY most of the time and it is not your place to teach her those things."

It generally bugs me when people try to parent my child anyway.


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## Tsubaki (Dec 26, 2007)

With all due respect, I don't understand what's so wrong with reminding kids to say please and thank you. Can someone explain this to me?


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## hipmummy (May 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tinuviel_k* 
Honestly, unless it is a huge boundary line for me I let it go. My feeling is that my child is going to need to learn (to some degree) to act by other people's rules in situations away from the home. Our sociaty and culture has certain 'rules" or nicities, and while many of them can go hang, IMO, there are a few rules or customs that I don't mind others haring with my child, if done in a polite, loving way.

If I am having dinner with my good friend and neighbor and she offers me a glass of water I automatically say, "Yes please." or "Thank you so much, I'd love one."

If my daughter forgets to extend the same courtesy (which is often at that age), while I might not make her "say please" at home, I don't really mind someone else encouraging her to do so in a social situation. If the demands got out of hand of course I would feel fine intervening, "Mary, thank you for trying to help Denali remember her manners, but that is not quite the way we do this at our house. We prefer to..."









:
I really can't stand when parents comment on my telling their children how to behave (when the parents are ignoring it). If they are my house they follow my rules PERIOD. If they don't like it then they do not have to come over. I have no problem when someone disciplines DS. In fact I prefer as he listens better. The children I grew up that had parents who did not allow others to gently discipline their children all have issues. Ie drugs,divorce,drop outs,custody battles etc. My cousins were like that and sadly they suffer from all of the above.


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## Porcelain Interior (Feb 8, 2008)

Prompting a please or thank you imo is not disciplining. Most likely the person doing it is doing it out of habit because she does it with her own kids.

If you've not prompted your children to use please and thank you, you could just say so and thank the lady for your child.


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## syd'smom (Sep 23, 2008)

Kids don't even begin to understand the concept of the words please and thank you until at least the age of 3 or 4, until then they are just parroting (when told to say it). If they learn to say it by example/modelling, then it is a more natural use of the words until a clear understanding of the concept of manners is possible.

My 19 mos said "bless you" one morning after I sneezed. We had NEVER asked her or prompted her to say this; we of course had said it to each other and to her when she had sneezed. It was amazing!

A perfect example was at a friend's b-day party when dd was about 21mos. She wasn't saying much, especially in front of strangers. A mom I had never met before was handing out the cake and trying to force my dd to say please. She kept at it, even though my daughter was saying nothing. Finally she relented, turned to the kitchen and in a loud, harsh voice yelled at the hostess: "uhhhhhhh could we get some spoons in here?!" I was soooooo tempted to say "uh....can you say please? can you say please?"

The other problem is that by constantly asking/forcing them to say please, two things are reinforced for toddlers: 1) that when they say please they always get the item they've asked for (and of course that can't always happen), and 2) as older children (who should be able to use manners) only do so when prompted.

I'd rather my daughter learned manners by watching DH and me model those behaviours. And we do discuss with her how to ask nicely (tone, etc.) and why manners are important; we just don't artificially force the issue.


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## Naleekyah (Feb 19, 2009)

I appreciate it when others help teach my kids things like manners especially in a society that is becoming less and less polite. Modelling is of course a huge part of teaching, but kids need more than modelling to learn things. The young ones live in the moment and are distracted easily, so being reminded by others is great. (Being "forced" is a different issue and a matter of judgement in a particular situation)

syd'smom: Why is it that you think kids don't understand the polite words until they are 3 or 4? I'm pretty sure my 2 year old and other 2 year olds I know understand what they mean and the effect they have on others. Regardless of the level of understanding my DS1 has of please and TY, we want the importance of manners and politeness to be instilled in him from early on. Our little guy says his pleases and TY a lot without prompting.


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## syd'smom (Sep 23, 2008)

Our dd uses please, ty and bless you quite a bit too - but cognitively children that young cannot understand what those kinds of abstract words mean - developmentally they understand nouns and verbs. She does use those manners (sometimes







)in the correct situation and usually with the appropriate tone of voice and phrasing, based on the modelling we have done and the "correcting" others have done - but even though 2 yos can parrot or model those abstract concepts does not mean they have a full understanding of the actual meaning.

We believe that modelling proper manners and behaviour for our daughter will show her the importance of politeness and manners, and we started to really watch ourselves and make sure that we were modelling before dd was even 1 (which has probably been better for dh and me







), and like I said, it is wonderful to see her "copying" our behaviours, so that when she is able to understand the idea of manners, she will already know how to use them.


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## pauletoy (Aug 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karina5* 
While annoying, I look at it as a "pick your battle/life's too short" type of thing, and try to keep it in perspective and let it go.









:


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## mommy2abigail (Aug 20, 2005)

I hated this too, so I told her to say something different when someone says "What do you say?" She now responds, "My mom is a Supermom!!!"


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## Biscuits & Gravy (Jul 17, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy2abigail* 
I hated this too, so I told her to say something different when someone says "What do you say?" She now responds, "My mom is a Supermom!!!"









Love it!!


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## Danielle13 (Oct 31, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angelcat* 
I think it's fine. I expect my daughter to use her manners, and I think it's great if other people remind her as well. It takes village, right?

right!


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## lerlerler (Mar 31, 2004)

Normally, I just let it go... but if it's persistant?

I step in. To the "what's the magic word"

"other than abracadabra, there are no magic words, just polite ones.r. thanks for reminding DD to be polite, but there are so many ways to be polite, we try not to limit it to certain words"

and as to what's wrong with reminding? It boils down to the use of please and thank you exclusively as perfect behaviour and nothing else will work

I'm good with "dinner is awesome, may I have some more?"

WAY better than the sometimes-smarmy-sounding "more please"

"more please" is often polite, but you occasionally run into a child who has been so chastised to say "please" it seems to have lost it;s meaning


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tsubaki* 
With all due respect, I don't understand what's so wrong with reminding kids to say please and thank you. Can someone explain this to me?

I wonder, with all due respect, would you say it to an adult who forgot?







I'm just being silly here, but likely not.

My children forget, they are not mannerless, in fact more often than not they are more polite than many adults I know and they are genuinely grateful, sincerely apologetic etc, not just "polite".

same as me..sometimes I forget too, yet I'm not mannerless either, I"m quite polite but I'm human









I feel it's the parents job to teach manners, society's rules in whatever manner(s) they choose to do so whether by modelling, prompting, reminding, a combination of all three.

It's not anyone elses job.

All that said, I mostly let it go. What I have been doing is teaching my children how to respond when people do remind them. "oops, we all forget sometimes" because quite often in their embarrassment(and they do get embarrassed, my 3.5 year old will yell at the person and hide her face) at their mistake being pointed out they become confused as to how to respond so I've given them some words.


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## greenmansions (Feb 16, 2005)

I let it ride unless the person takes my non-reaction to mean they can keep going with telling my kids how to "behave." I don't generally mind a reminder to say please or thank you where appropriate. But my kids rarely forget because DH and I say please and thank each other for things all day long, so it's part of the way we do things here.

I was a a grocery store the other day and the two older men at the checkout counter, checker and bagger, told my kids not to crash the two kid-size carts into each other. Fair enough. They are their carts. But then they told my kids where to stand, and then that it was time to take the carts back and park them near the wall. After the first request to not crash the carts, my kids honored that, and were doing just fine standing there beside me talking and giggling and holding the carts, rolling them back and forth a bit - note there was no one else in line at that point, nor in the adjacent line. The carts were not hitting anything else, and my items were not done being rung up. I finally told the men to leave the caretaking to me, and that I didn't need their help with my kids, and the kids were not doing anything wrong. They totally clammed up and barely spoke to me after that. But jeez, leave my kids alone. At some point it makes me nuts to have strangers telling my kids what to do. These two crossed the line and it felt like they were on a little power trip.

I also jump in when moms at public playrooms start telling my little kids that it's time to share (as in give their kid) a toy. Sorry, your kid can have it when my kid is done. If you have a problem with what my child is doing, come see me, rather than imposing your view of the world order on my kid. (that is probably opening a whole 'nother can of worms, worthy of another thread... don't get me going on playrooms. LOL.) The general lack of understanding of what is age appropriate for these little kids is a huge problem, IMO.


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## tinuviel_k (Apr 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lerlerler* 
..."what's the magic word"

"other than abracadabra, there are no magic words, just polite ones.r. thanks for reminding DD to be polite, but there are so many ways to be polite, we try not to limit it to certain words"

Nice one!







I'll need to remember that. Nothing is more annoying to me that when a child very nicely and politely says, "Excuse me, may I have a glass of water?" and someone insists on the word "please." There are many ways to phrase a polite request.


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tinuviel_k* 
Nice one!







I'll need to remember that. Nothing is more annoying to me that when a child very nicely and politely says, "Excuse me, may I have a glass of water?" and someone insists on the word "please." There are many ways to phrase a polite request.









While I think this is hilarious, I also think it is incredibly rude, so it's kind of backfiring on the whole point isn't it?

ETA: Oops, I meant to quote what Lerlerler instructs people...


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## Breeder (May 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Porcelain Interior* 
Prompting a please or thank you imo is not disciplining. Most likely the person doing it is doing it out of habit because she does it with her own kids.

If you've not prompted your children to use please and thank you, you could just say so and thank the lady for your child.

That was what I thought as well.


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## VroomieMama (Oct 9, 2008)

I guess.. it depends on who says what to my child... some people, I would just ignore it and let it go.. but for some people who acts/thinks that they're going to be a better mother than me without having a child of their own.


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

I say it for DD, but she's often too shy to say anything to strangers anyway.

What I HATE is the phrase "magic word." I have said to people "She has NO idea what you're talking about. We do not claim that words like please are *magic* in our household. If you really need her to say "please," then please just ask her to. Thanks."

I find that magic word phrasing really grating because I have real magic words in our religion. They do not involve saying please or thank you.


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## AutumnAir (Jun 10, 2008)

I haven't encountered this yet as DD's too young for anyone to reasonably expect her to say please or thank you (though she signs them on occasion just from us modelling). But I think in a situation like that if it was just a gentle reminder from someone I would have no problem with it. If DD seemed unable or uncomfortable with saying the word she was being reminded about, I'd probably just say it for her. If someone was being rude and repeatedly telling her to 'Say please' then I would step in and just let that person know that I prefer to 'show' DD manners rather than 'tell' her.


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## OkiMom (Nov 21, 2007)

People try to get DD1 to say please and thank you all the time. Shes 25 months but rarely talks and NEVER talks in front of other people (only will talk to DH and me). She will get upset if people hound her to much about it so I will step in for her. If they keep on harping on her Ill explain that she doesn't like to talk to strangers.
Im trying not to prompt her to say things since it upsets her. However she has said please and thank you a handful of times and Im sure when she gets older she will pick up when its appropriate.


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## pishajane (Dec 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls* 
I wonder, with all due respect, would you say it to an adult who forgot?








I'm just being silly here, but likely not.

My children forget, they are not mannerless, in fact more often than not they are more polite than many adults I know and they are genuinely grateful, sincerely apologetic etc, not just "polite".

same as me..sometimes I forget too, yet I'm not mannerless either, I"m quite polite but I'm human









I feel it's the parents job to teach manners, society's rules in whatever manner(s) they choose to do so whether by modelling, prompting, reminding, a combination of all three.

It's not anyone elses job.

All that said, I mostly let it go. What I have been doing is teaching my children how to respond when people do remind them. "oops, we all forget sometimes" because quite often in their embarrassment(and they do get embarrassed, my 3.5 year old will yell at the person and hide her face) at their mistake being pointed out they become confused as to how to respond so I've given them some words.

A big







: to this post.
My dd is delayed with her speech, and remembers quite often to say thanks, but also forgets fairly regularly too - in public especially, as she's incredibly nervous around people, even ones she knows well.
So it really bugs me when people correct her/insist on *manners*, because she goes from being brave enough to ask for something, to crushed because she *got it wrong*. I don't think enough people actually think before they automatically remind children to do or say things.
Thankyou for your post Allgirls - i will be teaching my kids to respond in the same way when corrected.


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## ians_mommy (Apr 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *syd'smom* 
Kids don't even begin to understand the concept of the words please and thank you until at least the age of 3 or 4, until then they are just parroting (when told to say it). If they learn to say it by example/modelling, then it is a more natural use of the words until a clear understanding of the concept of manners is possible.

My 19 mos said "bless you" one morning after I sneezed. We had NEVER asked her or prompted her to say this; we of course had said it to each other and to her when she had sneezed. It was amazing!

A perfect example was at a friend's b-day party when dd was about 21mos. She wasn't saying much, especially in front of strangers. A mom I had never met before was handing out the cake and trying to force my dd to say please. She kept at it, even though my daughter was saying nothing. Finally she relented, turned to the kitchen and in a loud, harsh voice yelled at the hostess: "uhhhhhhh could we get some spoons in here?!" I was soooooo tempted to say "uh....can you say please? can you say please?"

The other problem is that by constantly asking/forcing them to say please, two things are reinforced for toddlers: 1) that when they say please they always get the item they've asked for (and of course that can't always happen), and 2) as older children (who should be able to use manners) only do so when prompted.

I'd rather my daughter learned manners by watching DH and me model those behaviours. And we do discuss with her how to ask nicely (tone, etc.) and why manners are important; we just don't artificially force the issue.









perfectly stated.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karina5* 
While annoying, I look at it as a "pick your battle/life's too short" type of thing, and try to keep it in perspective and let it go.









:


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

I don't think ds needs me to protect him from stuff like that. And I am a very protective mom! But I think I'm doing him a huge disservice by stepping into those situations. If he were too young to answer, I would answer for him. Otherwise, he needs to handle it.


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## labdogs42 (Jan 21, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greenmansions* 
I let it ride unless the person takes my non-reaction to mean they can keep going with telling my kids how to "behave."

I also jump in when moms at public playrooms start telling my little kids that it's time to share (as in give their kid) a toy. Sorry, your kid can have it when my kid is done. The general lack of understanding of what is age appropriate for these little kids is a huge problem, IMO.

ITA. My BIL nags my kid all the time. Say please and thank you, give Grandma a kiss, say good bye...and on and on. Oh yeah and give Joe (his kid) a turn. Uh, there are toys all over the place, just because my kid is older, it doesn't mean that he has to give YOUR kid a turn right now. Can you tell the guy irks me? It all came to a head a Christmas time and now I don't even know what to say the next time I see him. (I can't remember if I posted the story here or not, but it was a doozy) I don't mind an occasional reminder to my child to remember his manners, but the nagging grates on me. I probably will end up saying something to the BIL next time he does it. Oh yeah, BIL is a big hand-slapper, time-out, kids should obey at all costs kind of guy. Great.


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## MaryTheres (Mar 21, 2007)

I don't experience (not that I have noticed anyway) too much of the "say please" stuff (but actually I am sort of big on manners so I am probably usually reminding DS myself if he isn't being polite or talking for him or whatever. DS does tend to order people about and I don't like it so I am ususally on top of it anyway ... I think he gets it from my father-in-law (he orders my mil around) but he is getting better and better with manners all of the time these days so I think we're good.

My problem is with people and their power trips when it comes to eating. DS is a great eater of all foods - healthy and otherwise - AT HOME with DH and me and grammy and pop-pop (people with whom he is super, super familar) ... During family gatherings or even if we are with just one other couple he starts refusing to eat - he'll usually refuse to eat vegetables and he'll sometimes refuse the entire meal (like he did last saturday night when we having dinner at a friends house). Of course, he's always up for for whatever dessert is being served







He is not at all like this at home, though. People seem to think it is perfectly alright for them to threaten him with "well you don't get any dessert then" and various other threats and manipulative devices to get him to eat. It annoys the heck out of me! And some of these people are my friends, they're really nice, I like them and I know they don't mean anything bad by it but why do they think this is okay? Oh and it's generally only friends/family/people without children... Those who have children, esp ones around the same age either think poorly of us and just keep it to themselves or know that this is how children get and you can't get nutso over everything.

Perhaps, I am opening the door to these comments b/c I do get embarrassed and try gently ... no, probably more like 'weakly'... I try weakly to get him to eat something substantive. So maybe they think it's okay to 'step in' so to speak and 'help me out' with heavy duty threats and manipulation? Then I feel like I have to explain at length how isnt always like this just when we are in company and it's probably a phase, etc.

Also, my other problem is - it is kind of rude, imo, to go to somene's house for dinner and refuse 'everything' so I also struggle with how/when I should start getting DS to at least be polite in eating a few things, and being gracious about refusing food as well etc.

I feel like it is getting to be quite a quandry and I am not real sure how to handle it But the one thing I do know is I really don't like other people family/friends/ whomever tryig to force DS to eat!


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## COVegMom (Mar 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tsubaki* 
With all due respect, I don't understand what's so wrong with reminding kids to say please and thank you. Can someone explain this to me?

Children do not learn gratitude by being forced to say 'please' and 'thank you,' they learn it from our example. Forcing it on them is more likely to make them feel embarassed or resentful than thankful. Plus, it just seems like power-tripping to me--i.e. I'm going to dangle a cookie in front of you until you comply with my demands.

My son frequently uses 'please' and 'thank you' because he picked it up from our daily interactions. He also has other ways of expressing appreciation that are just as valid.

As to the original question, I often answer for him, ignore it, or decline the offer and give ds something of ours instead, depending on who, what, when, and where.


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## labdogs42 (Jan 21, 2009)

Oooh, the no dessert unless you clean your plate one is one that I WILL say something about! No one needs to give my kid a clean plate club membership. I was a member of that club and I struggle with my weight to this day. Yes, I want him to try things. I also want him to stop eating when he is full, not stuff his face to "earn" sweets! AAAGH! Sorry, hot button for me!!


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## SunKessed (Feb 20, 2009)

I believe that there are 2 issues at play.

There is a huge difference between just being polite and following social norms.

I will respect other people helping me teach my child about our social contracts. If she doesn't say please (regardless of whether or not she means it) she will be looked down on in our society. If she doesn't say "Thank you" people will think she's ungracious. So - until she is old enough to make the choice for herself of whether or not she wants to experience those consequences (about 7 or 8 IMO) I will do my part to shelter her.

It's like in some areas (thankfully not mine) it is socially expected to use "Sir" and "Ma'am". Those don't actually mean anything - but they are part of how interactions are supposed to go. So if someone doesn't use them without an excuse, like being from a different area, they are considered to be rude.


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## ians_mommy (Apr 5, 2008)

I agree with everyone that it is important to be polite, but I would still tell another parent/family member/complete stranger to "back off" if they were correcting my kid.
My issues are:
1. This is my child and if I am standing *right there* another adult should not usurp my authority as his parent.
2. Manners are learned by modeling
3. I would not allow my child to say to an adult, "what do you say?" or "what is the magic word" and therefor I will not allow an adult to say it to my child. He is a dignified human annd not a parrot.
4. I care more about my child's dignity than I do what other people (whoever they are) think of me.

ETA: I am a big proponent of manners as I am a military officer, so that is not the issue


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Yeah I have spoken up about the "eat everything on your plate" thing. Someone asking my dd to say thank you - I don't like it but it isn't a big deal if they are obnoxious about it - like going on and on or shaming her or something. A simple "what do you say?" isn't as big a deal to me, though I don't do that myself. I just don't think it's worth a confrontation.


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## OkiMom (Nov 21, 2007)

Ive only had one person try the 'eat everything on your plate" thing with Elyse and I responded with "Well, maybe there shouldn't be so much on her plate' (my friend is a big overeater and made her plate up for me since I was nursing the baby). Probably not the nicest or politest thing but I don't like the idea of people trying to force my child to eat. DD1 is a big eater, she eats a TON but when she done I want her to understand that she can stop.


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

So, for those of you who don't want others disciplining your children in this way (though I wouldn't call it discipline either - just expecting a certain social norm kind of thing), what would YOU do if the situation were reversed?

I ask because I had a friend over not long ago, and her DS and DD were AWFUL. She never, not even once, offered to correct them. So I did. After all, they were in my house and I wasn't going to stand for it. They _*demanded*_ sodas (which we don't have and they still expected). They *demanded* chocolate milk (which we don't even offer our kids). The boy threw his plate when he didn't like what was served. He helped himself to our fridge. The daughter took toys from the hands of my kids, etc....

And at some point, I just didn't care anymore that they weren't my kids - they were in my house and I started demanding pleases, thank yous, etc......

So, what would you have done?


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## AntoninBeGonin (Jun 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *syd'smom* 
Kids don't even begin to understand the concept of the words please and thank you until at least the age of 3 or 4, until then they are just parroting (when told to say it). If they learn to say it by example/modelling, then it is a more natural use of the words until a clear understanding of the concept of manners is possible.

My 19 mos said "bless you" one morning after I sneezed. We had NEVER asked her or prompted her to say this; we of course had said it to each other and to her when she had sneezed. It was amazing!

A perfect example was at a friend's b-day party when dd was about 21mos. She wasn't saying much, especially in front of strangers. A mom I had never met before was handing out the cake and trying to force my dd to say please. She kept at it, even though my daughter was saying nothing. Finally she relented, turned to the kitchen and in a loud, harsh voice yelled at the hostess: "uhhhhhhh could we get some spoons in here?!" I was soooooo tempted to say "uh....can you say please? can you say please?"

The other problem is that by constantly asking/forcing them to say please, two things are reinforced for toddlers: 1) that when they say please they always get the item they've asked for (and of course that can't always happen), and 2) as older children (who should be able to use manners) only do so when prompted.

I'd rather my daughter learned manners by watching DH and me model those behaviours. And we do discuss with her how to ask nicely (tone, etc.) and why manners are important; we just don't artificially force the issue.

excellent post


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## InDaPhunk (Jun 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *majormajor* 
i mostly mean the more teaching kind of discipline. sometimes other mothers will do things like offer my DD a snack, and then say, "what do you say?" or, "what's the magic word?" this irks me. why offer her a snack and then make her say please? besides, it's not your job. some of these moms we see a lot at the playground. do i say something? it doesn't seem to bother DD, but it bothers me!
thanks. oh, she's 3.5.

I don't hang out with people that would say that kind of dumb stuff







.

I have lots of close friends and I do expect that they'll contribute to DS's socialization, and I'm big on manners, but they would never ever say something stupid like that "magic word" BS or ask "what do you say". They might remind him if he forgot but it's sooooo not an issue if please and thank you isn't said (parroted) for every single little thing, and there's never ever any sort of condescension or shame involved _at all_. Don't even get me started on statements like that that are said to children. It's not teaching anything positive and it's not discipline







!


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## tinuviel_k (Apr 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sancta* 
So, for those of you who don't want others disciplining your children in this way (though I wouldn't call it discipline either - just expecting a certain social norm kind of thing), what would YOU do if the situation were reversed?

I ask because I had a friend over not long ago, and her DS and DD were AWFUL. She never, not even once, offered to correct them. So I did. After all, they were in my house and I wasn't going to stand for it. They _*demanded*_ sodas (which we don't have and they still expected). They *demanded* chocolate milk (which we don't even offer our kids). The boy threw his plate when he didn't like what was served. He helped himself to our fridge. The daughter took toys from the hands of my kids, etc....

And at some point, I just didn't care anymore that they weren't my kids - they were in my house and I started demanding pleases, thank yous, etc......

So, what would you have done?

Pretty much exactly what you did. And then I would not invite them back!


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## ians_mommy (Apr 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sancta* 
So, for those of you who don't want others disciplining your children in this way (though I wouldn't call it discipline either - just expecting a certain social norm kind of thing), what would YOU do if the situation were reversed?

I ask because I had a friend over not long ago, and her DS and DD were AWFUL. She never, not even once, offered to correct them. So I did. After all, they were in my house and I wasn't going to stand for it. They _*demanded*_ sodas (which we don't have and they still expected). They *demanded* chocolate milk (which we don't even offer our kids). The boy threw his plate when he didn't like what was served. He helped himself to our fridge. The daughter took toys from the hands of my kids, etc....

And at some point, I just didn't care anymore that they weren't my kids - they were in my house and I started demanding pleases, thank yous, etc......

So, what would you have done?

In your example I would have ended the visit.
In the OPs example I would not have said anything because it would not have bothered me.


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## AbbieB (Mar 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tsubaki* 
With all due respect, I don't understand what's so wrong with reminding kids to say please and thank you. Can someone explain this to me?

I think it bugs me because please and thank you are not mandatory. It also bugs me when relatives try to "teach" this stuff because it's really their attempt to teach something they think we are not.

I pick my battles on this. I don't say anything when grandma and Grandpa prompt DD at an occasional family dinner. I don't think it's frequent enough to make a difference anyway. I do step in when they try to teach her to bottle her emotions up or tell her her opinion is wrong.







:

My DD has done very well in the politeness department simply by having the behavior modeled. I do not feel the need to require please and thank you for every exchange. It's much more meaningful and enjoyable when DD gives an authentic please or thank you than to get one after some saying, "what do you say?"


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## AbbieB (Mar 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sancta* 
So, for those of you who don't want others disciplining your children in this way (though I wouldn't call it discipline either - just expecting a certain social norm kind of thing), what would YOU do if the situation were reversed?

I ask because I had a friend over not long ago, and her DS and DD were AWFUL. She never, not even once, offered to correct them. So I did. After all, they were in my house and I wasn't going to stand for it. They _*demanded*_ sodas (which we don't have and they still expected). They *demanded* chocolate milk (which we don't even offer our kids). The boy threw his plate when he didn't like what was served. He helped himself to our fridge. The daughter took toys from the hands of my kids, etc....

And at some point, I just didn't care anymore that they weren't my kids - they were in my house and I started demanding pleases, thank yous, etc......

So, what would you have done?

I think that please and thank you were not this issue here.

Throwing dishes and grabbing toys out of another's hand are behaviors that using please and thank you will not change. I think that if the parent is not willing to step in and handle the situation than others will.

This get together would have ended early if it had been my house. I've had to do this before and it is not an easy or pleasant thing to do. I lost a friend because of it.


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## SunShineSally (Jan 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *majormajor* 
i mostly mean the more teaching kind of discipline. sometimes other mothers will do things like offer my DD a snack, and then say, "what do you say?" or, "what's the magic word?" this irks me. why offer her a snack and then make her say please? besides, it's not your job. some of these moms we see a lot at the playground. do i say something? it doesn't seem to bother DD, but it bothers me!
thanks. oh, she's 3.5.


Someone else encouageing my Ds to use manners doesn;t bother me at all (I am crazy about manners







) but anything else would irk me to no end! I am the person to say "what do you say..." If I do not recieve a thank you or please. I even do that with my Dp







If someone would do the do nto touch that or get down I would be mad and say.... I am watching my son but thank you for keeping an eye on him, or I see him thank you for being concernd but he is able to climb on that safely.

HTH some!


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## jjawm (Jun 17, 2007)

I don't consider it discipline. It may not be their place, but I'd let it go unless it was stressing my child. We use the phrase "ask nicely" which could mean saying please, or even just not screaming the request.


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## majormajor (Nov 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SunShineSally* 
If someone would do the do nto touch that or get down I would be mad and say.... I am watching my son but thank you for keeping an eye on him, or I see him thank you for being concernd but he is able to climb on that safely.

HTH some!

i had forgotten about this! people used to do this ALL THE TIME when she was younger at the playground. yes, she is a girl. yes, she was 1.5. and YES, she was allowed to climb! if i'm letting it go, who are you (not you sunshinesally) to tell her not to! gah.

i also agree with you AbbieB. i don't think it's necessary 100% of the time, especially with kids who use a polite and respectful tone of voice. gosh, i don't say please and TY all the time, especially in the house... does anyone?


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## SunShineSally (Jan 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *majormajor* 
i also agree with you AbbieB. i don't think it's necessary 100% of the time, especially with kids who use a polite and respectful tone of voice. gosh, i don't say please and TY all the time, especially in the house... does anyone?


If my Ds or any other child at least smiles politely or what not I do not expect a TY, and if they ask politely I will not always expect a please but for the most part I do







They were so drilled into me whlie growing up I cannot help it. I donot always think it is rude to not use please and TY but if I never hear it from people I do find it rude. We always use them like I said totally drilled!!! and because they have been I often wonder are we really thankful for whatever it is, or are we just so programed to say it that it just comes out and really are not thankful???? Also is it me that really thinks it is rude or is it just how I was raised??

Okay my deep thought is done now this is MDC not SNL


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## stlmomof2 (Mar 30, 2006)

I'll tell other people's kids to ask nicely for something. I don't always insist upon "please" but a polite request is necessary. As adults, we don't always say "please" but we do ask for things in deferential tones. When I go to a friend's house, I say, "Would you mind if I got a glass of water?" or "Could you get me some water while you're in there?" I don't say, "Give me water." Often, young children DO talk in that demanding way because they haven't fully figured out language/manners yet. Sometimes it's hard to explain how to be polite to a child without giving specific words like "please" and "thank you." We don't have to say these words as adults because we know how to affect a polite deferential tone--we've had so much practice. But our polite tones/words pretty much boil down to "please" and "thank you."
I also feel that I don't want people to order me around or grab things from me, even if it's a young child who is still learning, so I'll help the young person communicate with me in a way that makes me happy. So it's not necessarily an attempt to teach your child. It may be that the person has standards for the way other people will behave around him/her.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

While I don't do that with other people's kids, I would let it go. Their snack, their demands, their issues. She can deal with other adults. I mean, if they have a special request. She has to take her shoes off in their houses if they ask, too, and she also has to call them by their names. We ask that she make requests politely at home and in public and we do remind her because it is very, very important to us that she learn this part of language.

We just say, "Can you ask that politely, please?"

No, we wouldn't say that to an adult, but if an adult regularly came over to my house and screamed, "I WANT A BEER! BEER! BEEEER!" I wouldn't have her over anymore, either. So that is not really a relevant comparison in this case. I am helping my daughter become the sort of adult people want to have over, you know?


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## ians_mommy (Apr 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *abbieb* 
i think it bugs me because please and thank you are not mandatory. It also bugs me when relatives try to "teach" this stuff because it's really their attempt to teach something they think we are not.

I pick my battles on this. I don't say anything when grandma and grandpa prompt dd at an occasional family dinner. I don't think it's frequent enough to make a difference anyway. I do step in when they try to teach her to bottle her emotions up or tell her her opinion is wrong.







:

My dd has done very well in the politeness department simply by having the behavior modeled. I do not feel the need to require please and thank you for every exchange. It's much more meaningful and enjoyable when dd gives an authentic please or thank you than to get one after some saying, "what do you say?"

ita


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## burke-a-bee (Jan 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angelcat* 
I think it's fine. I expect my daughter to use her manners, and I think it's great if other people remind her as well. It takes village, right?









:


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## mama516/419 (Feb 15, 2009)

I think the mom was right and I would have been embarressed I wasnt on top of it. A child should thank an adult for a treat or preasant . Tho if they didnt ask for it then only a TY was nessisary not a please IMO. I a a very into being polite. I expect children to be polite. I also expect adults to be polite and if a younger person or peer repetedly forgot their manners with me I would remind them also . IE before I had kids I used to smoke. if someone asked for my lighter I expected a thanks from them and would not give it to them if they said "gimme your lighter a sec" I would say "ask nicely" Its a weird copairason but you get my point.
Of course these things are modeled for them . Just like we model a love for reading by reading ourselves , but we also read to them to instill a love for books at their level. My DD is almost 3 and rarely forgets manners but when she does she is prompeted by me and the first signs she learned were "please " and "more" lol . I think its unfair of an adult to ask a barely verbal child to say anything tho as some pp mentioned adults should be polite enough to acknowlage all kids have diffrent abilities and strengths.
Peace


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

My opinion on this has changed a lot in my now 8 years of parenting. In the first few years, I was firmly in the "never prompt them, just model it" camp. And it worked because, as someone else mentioned, they are in mimic mode in the early years. My son was the king of please and thank you. He had lovely manners. Then, at about 5, he lost them. He also started picking up a disrespectful tone from television, other kids around him, etc.

So, for the past 3 or so years, I have wandered over to "gentle reminder" camp. I remind him that I prefer to be spoken to in a respectful tone and I give him an example. I remind him to say please and thank you when he forgets. He'll say, "Can I have that?" and I'll channel my mother with a gentle, "May I please have that?" I think this is ultimately helpful for him. No one enjoys a demanding person who lacks the ability to employ common courtesy. I would never refuse to give him something until he said please or take it away if he forgets to say thank you. That, IMO, is humiliating and disrespectful. I wouldn't do it, myself, and I would intervene on his behalf if someone else did it to him. But gentle, respectful reminders? Meh.

For the record, I am also firmly rooted in the "pick your battles" and "it takes a village" camps (also known as the "I don't have enough energy for this" and the "my child sometimes listens better to strangers than he does to me" camps).







And I think assuming the best of people is always warranted. I don't take these sorts of situations as an external judgment on my parenting. If I did, I would be walking around with my head perpetually hung in shame.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I have never minded the prompting for a thank you. By two my daughter was saying thank you almost constantly anyways because that is what I modeled to her and she picked up on it quickly. I do get annoyed with the prompt for a please, but I would weigh this against my desire for dd to be able to interact with these people's kids and my desire to make friends. Especially if my dd seems to understand the prompt and responds with a please or thank you and not a blank stare. You could always bring a snack to her first so they don't have to offer if it is something you absolutely want to avoid without making a big issue out of it.


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## LittleSoulMama (Apr 11, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ians_mommy* 
I agree with everyone that it is important to be polite, but I would still tell another parent/family member/complete stranger to "back off" if they were correcting my kid.
My issues are:
1. This is my child and if I am standing *right there* another adult should not usurp my authority as his parent.
2. Manners are learned by modeling
3. I would not allow my child to say to an adult, "what do you say?" or "what is the magic word" and therefor I will not allow an adult to say it to my child. He is a dignified human annd not a parrot.
4. I care more about my child's dignity than I do what other people (whoever they are) think of me.









:

Correcting someone's speech or offering them something and then withholding it until they say "the magic word" is very rude.


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## momo7 (Apr 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls* 
I wonder, with all due respect, would you say it to an adult who forgot?








I'm just being silly here, but likely not.


I hate it when adults talk like that to other adults....I had this situation happen to me about a year ago....I was leaving church and this woman pulled her van up right in front of me so I was blocked in.....she just sat there....I rolled my window down and said "Can you move your van please?" She looks over at me and goes "What's the Ma gic word?" GAH!!!! I wanted to say "How about move your %%^*&%$ van now you $%^&*" but I was at church so I didn't....well ok I wouldn't have said it like that but it was so annoying......

So I try very hard at home to teach my little people good manners or just to be polite in general....If I've done ok.....then the need for reminders are few and far between.


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