# My Letter to Our Daughter on Her 15th Birthday



## laura_giampino (Dec 14, 2015)

Our daughter just turned 15. She's a good kid and, overall, has been a pleasure to raise. She gets good grades at school, is active in sports and has a lot of friends - both girls and guys. For the most part, she shows respect for me and my husband and even tolerates her 11 year old brother (usually!). She has a very positive view of life and shares that view with all around her - both kids and adults. She is open and honest as she figures things out. She already is beginning to think and talk about where she wants to go to college and what it will take to make that happen. She has had several boy crushes and been out on a couple of group dates but so far no one has been raised to the official level of "boyfriend".

In short ... we are very blessed to have her as our daughter!

On the weekend prior to her birthday she invited over six of her friends for a sleepover party. They had a great time and, amazingly, my husband and I even got some sleep that night!

She is quite open with both her Dad and me. We talk and laugh a lot. Sometimes, though, it seems like I don't take as much opportunity as I should to share my thoughts with her on some of the more important stuff. I decided to take the opportunity of her 15th birthday to try to improve on this. My first step was to write her a letter.

I've shared my note to her (below) in hopes that it will *ENCOURAGE OTHER MOTHERS TO TAKE THE TIME TO LISTEN AND TALK TO THEIR TEENAGE KIDS. * There is only a short window between the time when they start asking questions about how to become an adult and the time when they stop listening to what their parents want to share on those topics. You only get one chance to fill that window. Please invest the time to make a difference!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

XXXXXX --

Happy Birthday!!! I hope that you enjoyed the sleepover last weekend and the birthday dinner that Dad and your brother made this evening.
I can't tell you how proud I am to be your mother! You are a delightful person and all who know you realize how special you are. You bring a positive attitude to every day and share that attitude with all around - both kids and adults. That is truly a gift and it explains why so many people want to share your life. Somewhere along the line you have figured out how to earn the respect and admiration of both kids and adults - that's a hard balance for many and you carry it off with a good deal of grace.

You have always been very open and honest with Dad and me. Many of my friends feel like they pretty much lost contact with their kids when they turned into teenagers. We feel both lucky and blessed that you are willing to share so much of your life with us. This has allowed us to trust you and respect your privacy. You make it easy for us to be parents!
We all spend a good deal of time talking and laughing. However, with all of the day-to-day goings on I sometimes feel like I don't do a good enough job listening to you about the more important things in your life and sharing my thoughts with you. I hope that I can do better with this going forward. I thought that I would start by writing you a letter to share some of the thoughts that have recently been rumbling through my brain.

Here goes:


You have developed a lot of good friends -- both girls and guys. I can honestly say that I like every one of them that I have met! Your life is busy now and will only get busier. Take the time to invest in building on these friendships for the future. There will be many times when your friends will need you to help them through some crisis in their life (and, probably, a few times when you will need them!). Make sure that they know that you will always be there for them. (Your Dad and I were especially impressed with how you supported XXXXXXX last year when she decided to tell her Mom that she was a lesbian. That support is a gift that she will remember for a long time!).
Never forget that you have a whole family on your side. You have a lot of aunts/uncles/cousins/grandparents. Everyone of them has your back. There will come a time in life when you will need to talk to someone in the family who is NOT your parent. (I know this from personal experience!). You can always depend upon your entire family to give you unconditional love and support you. That's who we are as a family.
You are at an age where just about every adult in your life (including, occasionally, your parents!) wants to provide advice on every topic - which college to choose, which classes to take, which church to attend, which job to get, who to date, etc. Listen closely and respectfully to what they have to say - there may even be a bit of wisdom here and there. In most cases they honestly want what is best for you. There is one important thing to remember though... It's YOUR life, not theirs. There is no one in the world who knows better than you what you are capable of and, more importantly, what you want to do. YOU get to live with both the pleasures and consequences of YOUR decisions.
As you become an adult you will find that your privacy becomes more and more important to you. You've always been honest and open with your Dad and me and you've proven that we can trust you. As long as you maintain that trust, you can count on us to respect your privacy and to back off when there are things that you don't want to share. (We can't make the same promise for your little brother but we are willing to work with you when he sticks his nose where it doesn't belong!).
Your father is a very good man. He worships you. Many years ago you figured out that all you need to do is to bat your long eyelashes and smile at him with your big blue eyes and he will agree to almost anything! You are very lucky to have such a close relationship with him. I hope that you and he can continue with this as you try to figure out what makes men act the way that they do. He has a lot of wisdom to share. I am always amazed when I ask him about something and he immediately shares a perspective that is completely off my radar.
Your body has changed a lot in the last few years. I suspect that you are still getting used to the woman's body that was traded in for your girl's body. Don't rush this process. Take plenty of time to explore yourself and to learn what brings you pleasure and what you don't like. There will come a time when you decide that you want to share yourself with someone special. The best gift that you can bring to a new partner is to know yourself, and to communicate with him or her what you want and how they can help make that happen.
People come in all shapes and sizes. That diversity is what makes life so interesting and what allows each of us to try to find someone who is just right for us. Never be ashamed or embarrassed by your body. It's one part of who you are and what makes you both special and different from everyone else on the planet. You are blessed with great beauty - but just part of that comes from the outside. Be proud of the whole package.
You've always been very open to ask Dad and me about pretty much anything that is on your mind. We've taken this as a complement and we try very hard to answer in a way that is both truthful and which encourages this openness in the future. Some topics (yep, sex ... but other stuff too!) are hard to talk about to your parents. Never be embarrassed or reluctant to ask us anything. However, please realize that we understand that there are some things that you would rather find out elsewhere. Lean on your friends and your other relatives here as they will generally have your best interests at heart. Also, don't ever hesitate to check in with your friend Google - he has a lot of answers and many (good luck figuring out which!) are even correct. Here are a couple of other sources of information that generally provide good information and advice:


Sometime later this month I want to sit down and talk to you face to face about birth control. You haven't asked for my opinion (which rarely stops me from sharing it!) but my overall view is that teens and parents are better off discussing this topic earlier rather than later. Too often (yes, I was once a teen too!) kids either never ask their parents about birth control or they wait until they are about to become sexually active and the conversation is then very awkward because it focuses on what is about to happen, when, who, why, etc rather than on how to be safe. Parents are even worse than kids. They generally want no part of any discussion because they subscribe to the myth that THEIR child isn't going to be sexually active until they are at least 35. The end result is too many unplanned pregnancies and STDs. YOU need to make the decision about when you want to start birth control and what type you want to use. However, if you want our opinion (!), your father and I would prefer that you consider starting some safe form of birth control long before it becomes a forced current topic. If you decide that this is what you want we will gladly take you to the doctor now (or later) so that she can (confidentially) discuss your options with you.
OK, enough of my sharing what is on my mind. I'm much more interested in what is on your mind. You are at a magical time in your life. You have so much potential and energy and the world is full of options for you. Tell me what you are excited about, what you are dreaming about and what you are scared of. What do you really want to do with the next five (or 10 or 15!) years of your life? How can we help to make that happen?
I'm exceedingly proud to be your mother and I love you very much. Happy birthday!!!
Mom

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FYI, I left this note on my daughter's bed along with a few small presents including a small mirror, a vibrator and some personal lubricant.


----------



## farmermomma (Oct 30, 2012)

What? You had me until you had to tell me what kind of vibrator! Lol.


----------



## laura_giampino (Dec 14, 2015)

farmermomma --

I'm not sure what you are implying with your reply. If my note offended you in some way, please be assured that wasn't my intent.

Laura


----------



## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

laura_giampino said:


> farmermomma --
> 
> I'm not sure what you are implying with your reply. If my note offended you in some way, please be assured that wasn't my intent.
> 
> Laura


What was your intent?

You've never posted here before. You use all caps (shouting) to say to talk to and listen to your kids. Do you think that moms on mothering need to be shouted at to talk to and listen to their kids?

I don't get the "open" letter thing anyway. You want to give your kid a vibrator .... okay ... why do you need to post that in a forum where you've never been involved before?


----------



## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

I flagged the post for removal, but its still there. In the meantime, i dont recommend anyone take this post seriously.


----------



## hillymum (May 15, 2003)

Giving your daughter a vibrator is really inappropriate, don't you think? Have the sex/contraceptive talk, (I started that discussion with my son's when they were 13!) discuss contraception methods and what they are good for (condoms only protect against some STD's, not all!) and even supply some so there is familiarity with them, but a vibrator???? Really? Boundaries woman! Boundaries! You crossed a huge one!


----------



## laura_giampino (Dec 14, 2015)

I am honestly surprised at the strong reaction that my posting elicited. I am also disappointed that at least one member of this community feels so strongly that they want the posting to be removed. In any case ... I'm sorry if I offended anyone by sharing this note. I have absolutely no regrets that I wrote the note to my daughter and I was pleased with the discussions that it prompted between us. 

One thing to think about ... would your reaction have been significantly different had I omitted the final sentence? That's food for thought.

Again, there was no intent to offend ... just to share. I wish all who take the time to post here the best.

Laura


----------



## farmermomma (Oct 30, 2012)

I was just questioning when you had the brand on it. I thought it was some strange product placement. I'm glad to see that you edited that. I think it's neat that you have such a close relationship with your daughter. My mom and I were almost that close. I have young boys but you brought up some good points. I'm gonna ask him about the 5 year outlook.


----------



## farmermomma (Oct 30, 2012)

Oh and what was your daughter's reaction? Would it have been different without the vibrator?


----------



## laura_giampino (Dec 14, 2015)

farmermomma said:


> Oh and what was your daughter's reaction? Would it have been different without the vibrator?


Thank you for your reply and your thoughts. Unfortunately, I can't answer your question as I'm not my daughter. I can tell you that she thanked me for the presents and told me that I'm the "best mother ever!" (something that we all need to hear once in a while!). Since I wrote her the note we've had a couple of long conversations that covered a pretty wide range of stuff. Although we did talk some more about birth control and sex the majority of it was on other topics. Mostly I tried to listen and understand what is important in her life right now. We laughed and giggled a lot. There was one topic that kind of surprised me. She asked a lot of questions about how her dad and I made things work in our marriage. That isn't something that I expected to be on the radar of a 15 year old girl!

Laura


----------



## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

laura_giampino said:


> One thing to think about ... would your reaction have been significantly different had I omitted the final sentence? That's food for thought.


yes, because what I found oddest about the whole thing was your need to shout at us to talk to and listen to our teenage kids. In your first post ever.

I'm glad that you are now talking to and listening to your daughter. I've been doing that for years and years.


----------



## Claudia Chapman (Aug 9, 2012)

Was it really shouting? I just saw it as emphasis - something which might have been italicized had the original poster realized that we have an option here to italicize our text. I'm on an iPad and it's difficult to get the italics to work in the MOTHERING forums so I might occasionally use capital letters as a substitute.

I think it's nice that someone is posting for the first time. We're all first time posters at some point. It seems like this mom had something on her mind that she thought was important - something she wanted to share. Welcome.


----------



## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

Claudia Chapman said:


> Was it really shouting?


That's the assumed meaning of upper case type in text-based communication on the internet.

https://newrepublic.com/article/117390/netiquette-capitalization-how-caps-became-code-yelling

Miranda


----------



## Claudia Chapman (Aug 9, 2012)

Thank you for the link.

As the writer of the article you so kindly linked me to points out "People have long used capital letters to set text apart and convey its importance, but upper case letters haven’t always signified loudness..."

As in everything else, context is everything. There may be an assumption that all caps indicates shouting, but taken in context, it seemed quite clear that all she was trying to do was emphasize something she felt was important.


----------



## laura_giampino (Dec 14, 2015)

Again, thank you for the comments and suggestions.

Just to be clear on a couple of things:


It was not my intent to shout. It was my intent to emphasize. My apologies for using CAPS rather than _italicize_. (Yes, I realize that the nuances are important but it's a challenge for me to focus on subtle styles of format as opposed to the content of what I am writing. I've learned for the future that those differences are very important in this forum).
Someone said that they are glad that I am "now listening and talking to my daughter". In case I didn't make it quite so clear in my original post... We're fortunate that my daughter has always been a great communicator with my husband and me, both when she was a child and, now, as a teen. I wrote the letter to her primarily for two reasons. The first was that I wanted her to know that I'm now trying to learn to listen more and talk less. The other reason was prompted by her turning 15. She is now entering an age where she is thinking about more adult topics (and topics of more substance). I wanted to reassure her that we will try to be open to also discussing those topics that are sometimes uncomfortable or challenging - both for teens and their parents. Time will tell whether we are successful on either front but I am certainly encouraged by how things have gone so far.
 Laura


----------



## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

The part about the vibrator was the most controversial. A sincere person might come to this forum with the question "Is it appropriate for me to give my daughter a vibrator?" That of course, is a very controversial question. But you snuck it in at the end, like it was no big deal. To me, it came across as the main point of your whole post. All the rest of it was fluff. You came across as overly obsessed with your daughters burgeoning sexuality, and while sincere, that would be one thing, but that sneaky part about the vibrator at the end, made it come across as creepy, and....need i use the 'P' word here- but that is the vibe i got from your post. It was insincere at best, creepy at worst.

Now lets get to the main point. Is it appropriate to give your young teenage daughter, a vibrator along with a long letter. No. Its not. its crossing a boundary. Dont worry, she can navigate her own sexuality without the help of her parents masquarading as 'caring' and 'bonding', but really invading her privacy and sexual autonomy. I mean, do you really think its appropriate to give your daughter tips on how to masturbate herself?

(creepy, insincere, and another word to describe your post- ridiculous)

No, teaching ones children about how to self pleasure, is not one of the tasks of parenting. 

If you want her to be open about emotional/sexual questions, then its better to make yourself available to her, so she can come to you with questions if she has them, even if they are about vibrators.

Stop obsessing about your daughters sexuality, and let her be herself. 

(that is, if you really are her mother. I think you are more likely a man than a woman and i flagged your post for removal)


----------



## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

Ok having read your other posts, maybe you are legitimate. Im glad you have a postitive relationship with your daughter and things worked out well.


----------



## Letitia (Aug 27, 2009)

The way to help your kids learn to self-pleasure is to try really hard, when they are really little, to teach them to respect and appreciate their bodies while they learn privacy. That while some body parts need to be kept private, there is nothing wrong with those parts. By not freaking out when 4 year old good friends play doctor. We have told our kids (they don't need it anymore now that they are older) that they can touch themselves there as much as they want, and that's totally fine, but when they are by themselves. Lots and lots of times when they were toddlers. 

I agree, giving a 15 year old a vibrator is creepy, seems a boundary violation.


----------



## laura_giampino (Dec 14, 2015)

contactmaya --

I've read your two posts several times and I'm kind of at a loss as to how best to reply. 

In your first note you use some very strong language, draw several inaccurate conclusions and accuse me of things that just plain aren't true.

In your second note (three minutes later) you say that you've gone back and re-read what I have written and now conclude that I'm "legitimate" and you're glad that I have a positive relationship with my daughter. 

So, it's hard for me to reply. I think it's best to just thank you for sharing your comments and wish you a very good holiday week with your family.

Laura


----------



## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

contactmaya said:


> (that is, if you really are her mother. I think you are more likely a man than a woman and i flagged your post for removal)


I'm not convinced you are a mother. Your post about your daughter's reaction doesn't ring true to me.

If you really want to be seen as a normal poster, then you would post about things besides your teenager's sexuality. You know, on other threads. You would participate in conversations on a range of topics over a period of time.

I just don't take people seriously who show up out of the blue and only want to talk about teen sexuality.


----------



## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

I had a slumber party when I was 13, my drunk mother talked about vibrators with my friends and even did an over the clothes demo using a phone as a pretend vibrator. It was absolutely mortifing and it got around school. 

My point being is that some mothers can absolutely be inappropriate and have some major boundary issues


----------



## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

Its simple Laura. The first post was in response to your original post with the letter and the vibrator. My second post, came after reading your replies and how your daughter responded.

Im a sex positivist. So, im willing to admit that that is also your motive, and that it is possible you really are the mother. So considering your latter posts, I acknowledged that.

OTOH, as sexually positive as I may be, I am also a parent that wrestles with complex and controversial questions, and whether or not to give your daughter a vibrator falls into that category. Well... not really because i think its over the top, and potentially a violation, but your daughter responded well....i dont know your family.

Teaching sex positivity to children in a sex negative culture is a little complicated, but your approach was dubious, in that it totally lacked any questioning, or any self doubt, but certainly showed alot of disproportionate interest in your daughters sexuality.

Im not 100% convinced, because there is something insincere your whole approach. But im giving you the benefit of the doubt.

If an adult had given me a vibrator, let alone my own parents at age 15, i would have been appalled, and my first thought would be-yuk, and its none of you f8x8x business.

Also, i had no interest in vibrators, but more the real thing. I still dont think they are that good, and i find men prefer to watch a woman use them more than women actually want to use them.

Thats another reason your post is fishy. But...im giving you the benefit of the doubt.



laura_giampino said:


> contactmaya --
> 
> I've read your two posts several times and I'm kind of at a loss as to how best to reply.
> 
> ...


----------



## farmermomma (Oct 30, 2012)

ContactMaya I think you need to stay in more. Lol. I've never used a vibrator in front of a man, but it has helped to keep me chill during some dry periods. Seriously I've been single a lot. Lol.


----------



## hillymum (May 15, 2003)

Just checking my filter. Yep, it's working...... >


----------



## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

farmermomma said:


> ContactMaya I think you need to stay in more. Lol. I've never used a vibrator in front of a man, but it has helped to keep me chill during some dry periods. Seriously I've been single a lot. Lol.


That was a long time ago....:lol Still not that interested in vibrators, but to each their own!


----------



## kathymuggle (Jul 25, 2012)

Claudia Chapman said:


> Was it really shouting? I just saw it as emphasis - something which might have been italicized had the original poster realized that we have an option here to italicize our text. I'm on an iPad and it's difficult to get the italics to work in the MOTHERING forums so I might occasionally use capital letters as a substitute.
> 
> .


Meh. I did not think the Op was shouting. It could just be lack of knowledge on internet protocol. I know I have made these kind of faux pas'.

That aside, the Op reads as BS. Sorry if I am wrong, OP. It feel like someone is just writing a bit of an essay on how _they think_ we should address our teenage daughters.


----------



## Claudia Chapman (Aug 9, 2012)

Does anyone else see the humor in posting anonymously, using a nickname, to suggest someone who signs their name might not be real?

I was just taking a breather and reread the original post because I got quoted in the comments. 

Very little of that long letter actually has to do with sex. The point I took away from it was that the mom wanted her daughter to learn about her body on her own instead of being drawn in to experimentation with a partner before she's emotionally ready. She took a round about way to get there, but I suspect that's because she wanted to lay a lot of positive groundwork before launching into what might be an awkward topic, or at least uncharted territory. 

I have to salute her for bringing the subject of masturbation up and trying to educate her daughter on the subject. The gift of a vibrator seemed odd to me, but only because using a mechanical device instead of human touch for her early sexual experiences might dull her daughters ability to respond to another human being when the time comes.


----------



## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Claudia Chapman said:


> Does anyone else see the humor in posting anonymously, using a nickname, to suggest someone who signs their name might not be real?


just because someone posts using a first and last name, it doesn't mean that it is actually their name.

Call me crazy, but the posters who've been around here for years, shared the hard times with the kids as well as the triumphs, responded to my own thoughts, etc. are a lot more "real" to me (even if they use a nick name) than someone who shows up with one post that deals with sexuality.

Because, sadly, it happens a fair bit. A new poster only wants to talk about naked teens or masturbation or some other titillating topic.

You can find that funny if you want.

The OP had to be edited to remove some of the content.


----------



## Claudia Chapman (Aug 9, 2012)

i understand why you might be suspicious. (There was a post here some time back about a girl who wanted to be naked in front of the family and their holiday guests. To me it was clearly fraudulent, yet I was amazed to see that most people took it completely seriously.)

Would you be willing to consider how hurtful and inhospitable accusing someone, like Laura Giampino, of being a fraud might be if they are indeed a very real mom who is looking to mothering for community and a place to share? I'm understand your intention is to protect your community, but is it possible that sometimes you might overreact?

I'm bowing out now. Merry Christmas, Good Yule and a Happy New Year to all.


----------



## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

Happy Holidays everyone.

The post was weird, almost creepy. It didnt seem at all authentic, and there seemed to be no real point to the post.

Having said that, those of use who were dubious acknowledged that the post might be real and said positive things about the poster, about the 'mothers' positive relationship with the daughter.

Yes, much of the letter was not about the teens burgeoning sexuality, but the whole energy of it was, the rest of it seemed to be fluff there as an excuse for the poster to obsess on the one thing that interested him/her most. The thought occurred to me even before i got to the vibrator bit. What mother goes on and on about their childs social life and the notion of 'exploring pleasure', and then gives them a vibrator? Its a bit weird.


----------



## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

Claudia Chapman wrote:


> I have to salute her for bringing the subject of masturbation up and trying to educate her daughter on the subject. The gift of a vibrator seemed odd to me, but only because using a mechanical device instead of human touch for her early sexual experiences might dull her daughters ability to respond to another human being when the time comes.


Yes! That is my biggest problem with the idea of anybody giving a vibrator to a young girl or even suggesting to her that that is the way to get in touch with her desires: It suggests that her own hand could not possibly be good enough or even that it would be wrong to touch herself without a consumer product in the middle. I have no moral judgment against vibrators for those who want to use them, but I think that's not the best way to start. I thought that the wording of the original letter, on the subject of sexuality, was great, but following it up with the gift of a vibrator and lube is actually constraining the girl's exploration by suggesting (a) that she won't be able to get off without the help of a machine, (b) that this specific machine is the right one, and (c) that her own lubrication will be inadequate.


----------



## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

Not to state the obvious, but that is exactly why the post is suspect.


----------



## Claudia Chapman (Aug 9, 2012)

If a post isn't real is there a better way to handle it? Publicly insulting the integrity of the poster, based solely on suspicion, doesn't feel like the right way for a helping community to handle this kind of situation.

I wouldn't want to hurt someone, or make them feel unwelcome, unless I had no doubt that they were an imposter. Is it possible for a moderator to handle these matters privately?


----------



## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Claudia Chapman said:


> I wouldn't want to hurt someone, or make them feel unwelcome, unless I had no doubt that they were an imposter. Is it possible for a moderator to handle these matters privately?


These boards used to be very heavily moderated (I think over moderated). Now they are only lightly moderated.

If someone seems to be making an effort to truly be part of the community, then even when they post something that seems odd, the kind of reactions are softer. But when someone only posts on one or two threads and the subject is about teens and sex or nudity, I don't have any patience left. It's happened too many times.

You can click on a posters name and see their other posts -- see what boards they go to and what topics they post on. Normal moms hit several boards and post on a variety of topics. Some people come here and only want to talk about teens and sex.


----------



## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

Claudia Chapman said:


> If a post isn't real is there a better way to handle it? Publicly insulting the integrity of the poster, based solely on suspicion, doesn't feel like the right way for a helping community to handle this kind of situation.
> 
> I wouldn't want to hurt someone, or make them feel unwelcome, unless I had no doubt that they were an imposter. Is it possible for a moderator to handle these matters privately?


You can flag the post for removal by clicking on the exclamation mark, and then state your case to the moderator. I did this upon reading the OP's post the first time, because it screamed 'i am a pedophile'. I had absolutely no doubt then, but was prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt upon reading subsequent posts for the reason you mentioned.
As for the moderator, there was no reaction from them that i am aware of. Perhaps there was no moderator.

I agree that we should be sensitive to first time posters, and I made that effort by giving the poster the benefit of the doubt several times as I said. I am still not convinced its genuine. I agree with Linda that these kind of posts occur too often which is a pity.

I think the question of how to raise sexually positive teens is a good one. But I dont think that was the posters intention, otherwise, well, they could have just said it.


----------



## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

It's a tough line ... you obviously want to be kind to first-time posters who are genuinely reaching out for help. On the other hand, for the last couple of years this forum has been a gong show of weird sexualized posts framed as fake problems with teens, and the regulars are understandably suspicious of newbies whose only posts are sexual in nature and who rarely if ever return back to respond to advice or discussion. The situation is compounded by the fact that while these forums used to be quite actively moderated, the oversight is minimal now and moderators are few and slow to respond. None of us want to feed a creepy internet troll's weird sexual fantasies in a forum devoted to raising children. It's hard to know how suspicious to be, but this forum has a really dodgy history with sexuality-related threads. I'd link to some of them (since moderators don't seem to delete them) but I don't want to promote them in search algorithms. Have a look back a few pages and you'll see them ... subject lines that include words like shirtless, nudist, pee, puberty, Oedipus complex, etc. For a while it seemed like every single post from a newbie was a suspect sexualized scenario.

Miranda


----------



## Claudia Chapman (Aug 9, 2012)

Thank you Miranda. That was a very clear explanation.


----------



## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

I want to add that some posts are more blatant than others. Where there is no genuine questioning or doubt, where the intention seems to be to gloat on some sexual aspect of adolesence rather than solve a problem or seek genuine parental opinion. 
I dont believe all of the threads Miranda mentioned were trolls. But I am 99.99% sure that this one is, for the reason I mentioned.


----------



## laura_giampino (Dec 14, 2015)

I decided to give my participation in this thread a rest over the holidays in hopes that the new year would bring a better perspective.

I appreciate everyone's comments/opinions ... especially Claudia's. 

Some members of this community have said things about me that were frankly hurtful and untrue. I was called a pedophile, a male and folks even suggested that I wasn't even my daughter's mother. One person suggested that my postings be removed and another said that I was "obsessed" with my daughter's sex life. I assure you, none of these things are true. 

I have no problem with divergent opinions. Clearly everyone's perspective is different and we collectively grow when we hear what others think and have to say. I certainly don't expect everyone in a community to agree with what I write. Communities like this would be boring (and of limited value) if all were in agreement on all topics.

I'm appreciative when someone identifies my stepping beyond either the formal rules or the norms for participation in this community and calls that to my attention. 

My purpose in the original post was to encourage others to keep their focus on open communication with their teenagers. Unfortunately, that focus was lost when the discussions here focused on personal criticism and speculation about my real identity and motive. That focus was even further lost when others stated things about me that were hurtful and just plain not true.

As Claudia said "Publicly insulting the integrity of the poster, based solely on suspicion, doesn't feel like the right way for a helping community to handle this kind of situation."

I hope that other new members of this community have a better initial experience.

Laura


----------



## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

What exactly was your intention when giving your daughter a vibrator and publicizing it on a forum? Is that really about open communication? If so, are there absolutely no doubts in your mind that it crosses a boundary? Thats a serious question. It was your lack of questioning, your abrupt 'presentation' of something so clearly controversial without a wink, just seemed weird. Thats why I just dont see the point of your post. 

I m interested in hearing an explanation from you. Maybe your just a sex positive mom .

Have you even read all of the posts, and can you not see the concerns? 

Why not address those legitimate concerns?

Without that, none of what you are talking about really makes sense.


----------



## JadePlant (Apr 21, 2015)

I appreciated the OP's original post. A lot. I'm a long way off from having teenagers myself (mine are 4 and newborn), but I had a horrific relationship with my mother when I was 15 and I was happy to see an example of open and honest communication between mother and daughter. The vibrator part was a little surprising, sure, but it didn't strike me as unbelievable. We don't know this family or the details of their relationship. Maybe the daughter had asked about vibrators in the past. As far as I know, you have to be 18 to go to a sex shop, so it's not like the daughter could go buy one herself. Good for them, if their relationship is solid enough to be able to talk so openly about sex.

I'm putting in my two cents because I had a similarly degrading experience as a new poster when I first joined Mothering. It wasn't related to sex, but it was a topic (extended breastfeeding) that a lot of other moms felt very strongly about and I felt attacked and unwelcome. I stuck with my due date club, but more or less stopped posting in other forums because I was so taken aback by the hurtful and rude comments. I'm mostly a lurker now since I just don't see the point in opening myself up to judgmental and rude commenters. I'm sure many others have felt the same and didn't bother sticking around.

I've seen quite a few moms comment on how they miss the "old" community of this forum and how, in the good old days, there were more participants in general and more positive posts. It's probably stating the obvious, but if new posters are routinely treated like scum, then OF COURSE fewer people are going to want to join in discussions here.

Of course I've also seen the weird/creepy sexualized posts from first-time posters, many of whom are never to be seen again. There are spammers and probably some creepers that show up here from time to time as well--I'm not saying we should take everyone at their word. But, for Mothering to be the supportive and inclusive community that it claims to be, members need to stop automatically assuming the worst of new posters. Or, if you DO assume the worst, maybe keep it to yourself until you have more information. If all you have to say is something accusatory and/or nasty... is it so hard to say nothing at all? These people are NEW here and may not be aware of decorum and/or etiquette. No need to treat them like lower life forms. Jeez.

End rant. Thank you @laura_giampino for sharing. I really liked your letter.:smile:


----------



## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

Why cant she just address my concerns then?

Im sorry you had that experience. posting for the first time. This is a pro extended breastfeeding website and you wont find that in many places. I am not the type to attack new posters and I am sure that most people on this site dont come here purely to pick fights. This is the first time that I have felt so strongly something was fake. I still gave the poster the benefit of the doubt and said so over and over again ( was that acknowledged? No) Maybe the OP will answer my questions. It could so easily be an open and educational dialogue of important topics relating to teens and parenting, but instead its this pointless dialogue.

Convince me its not fake by simply answering my questions above.


----------



## laura_giampino (Dec 14, 2015)

JadePlant -- 

Thank you so much for your comments! I envy your command of English and wish that I could have stated things as clearly and succinctly as you have. Also, I'm sorry that your initial experience posting to this community was also a negative one. I'm hopeful that the community is wider and more supportive than our initial perceptions and that others have a more positive experience. 

Contactmaya --

I believe that I have repeatedly stated my intended purpose of the original post - to encourage others to keep their focus on open communication with their teenagers. I can accept that you don't feel that I accomplished that. You also speculated that "Maybe you're just a sex positive Mom". I can't say for sure whether that is true because I don't know how you define that phrase. If you mean, do I want my daughter to have a healthy and fulfilling sex life (on her terms and schedule) going forward? then the answer is "yes!". I would hope that most other parents would share that desire for their children, too.

Laura


----------



## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

laura_giampino said:


> If you mean, do I want my daughter to have a healthy and fulfilling sex life (on her terms and schedule) going forward? then the answer is "yes!". I would hope that most other parents would share that desire for their children, too.


I think that's how sex positivity is commonly understood, yes.

But I chuckled when I read your last sentence: I don't think that most parents share that desire. I think it's very much a minority attitude. Most parents want their children to have no sex life at all until they're in committed adult relationships, no longer living at home, no longer dependents.

Miranda


----------



## Letitia (Aug 27, 2009)

A few thoughts.

First, it's certainly possible for a pretty young kid to buy a vibrator. Way back in the 1980's, as soon as I got my driver's license, I drove to Sears and got a "massage" device. It's just a small appliance and required nothing other than money. Before the license, if I had thought to want one sooner, I could have taken the bus. I admit, the transportation-hindered and faint-of-heart won't find this possible, but I'm betting a creative, horny teen could do it.

Second, I think it's odd to join a forum and very first thing post advice to the other forum members. Every time I've made my way into an online community, it's been because I wanted to learn something or I needed something, not because I felt like I had something important about which to educate the members, whom I didn't know yet. The suggestion of bragging by a newcomer was something that initially set me off-level, but I can also see doing something, feeling proud, and wanting to share it but not having an audience.

Third, while, as I previously posted, I don't think this is the right way to teach kids it's OK to masturbate, I did appreciate the spark to make me think about that. 

I haven't doubted that the OP was real, and I haven't gotten the sense she was searching for titillating responses. Something has seemed a little off, but as I said I think it is the intent of the post by a first-time poster, not the identity of the poster. I also don't think getting excited about something and wanting to share is a big sin, in this case just a bit of an overstep.


----------



## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

laura_giampino said:


> JadePlant --
> 
> Contactmaya --
> 
> ...


Thanks for answering my question.

Sex positive means viewing sex in a positive light in contrast to the sex negative messages found in mainstream attitudes towards sex in general and especially sex in teens.(Much of it coming from religion) The idea is that sex is a beautiful thing to be celebrated, with the caveat that boundaries are always respected, sex is practised responsibly, and consent is crucial. So yes, you are a sex positive mom if you want your daughter to have a fulfilling sex life on her schedule.

I still want to understand better how you thought through the idea of the vibrator. So you think giving your daughter a vibrator encourages open communication and sex fulfillment? Or does it cross a boundary and violate her sense of safety and well being?

Open communication is great, we agree on that. But how much is too much?

(Maybe you and your daughter have already openly talked about vibrators, and its a logical next step....dont know, because you didnt really explain it)


----------



## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

Letitia said:


> A few thoughts.
> 
> First, it's certainly possible for a pretty young kid to buy a vibrator. Way back in the 1980's, as soon as I got my driver's license, I drove to Sears and got a "massage" device. It's just a small appliance and required nothing other than money. Before the license, if I had thought to want one sooner, I could have taken the bus. I admit, the transportation-hindered and faint-of-heart won't find this possible, but I'm betting a creative, horny teen could do it.
> 
> ...


Agreed with everything you said. Ok, that kind of makes me understand better-the intent was to share something the OP was excited about, not necessarily to ask questions of other members.

A first time poster, who values open communication and sex positivity, wanting to share an important letter she gave to her daughter, a letter she felt proud of. That rings a bit more true.


----------



## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

I think the letter itself is very positive. I have misgivings about giving someone a vibrator, as I said before. But what really strikes me as questionable is posting under (apparently) your full real name to brag about it. When I was 15, in the pre-Internet era, if my mother had written, say, a letter to the editor of a magazine bragging about how she gave me a vibrator, and the letter was published signed with her full name--I would have been mortified, even if I was pretty sure nobody else in our town read that magazine! Even if I was glad to have the vibrator and didn't feel at all weird about getting it from my mom, *I* would want to be the one who decided whom to tell about it.


----------



## laura_giampino (Dec 14, 2015)

>>> what really strikes me as questionable is posting under (apparently) your full real name

Envirobecca --

Thank you for your positive comments and your concern about my daughter's privacy. FYI - "Laura" is my actual first name but the last name that I am known locally is different than the last name that I use for any public internet postings. 

Laura


----------



## lauren (Nov 20, 2001)

We moderators are still here...... keeping an eye here. :wink:


----------



## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

lauren said:


> We moderators are still here...... keeping an eye here. :wink:


Im going to take this opportunity to thank you for being here!


----------



## lauren (Nov 20, 2001)

contactmaya said:


> Im going to take this opportunity to thank you for being here!


We are a small crew, but hopefully still helpful!! [If any long standing members are interested in being a trial moderator, PM me.]


----------



## Claudia Chapman (Aug 9, 2012)

Thanks Laura. And Lauren.


----------



## Claudia Chapman (Aug 9, 2012)

Just my opinion here. I think Laura has been exceedingly gracious in her responses. She's really gone above and beyond.


----------



## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

Claudia Chapman said:


> Just my opinion here. I think Laura has been exceedingly gracious in her responses. She's really gone above and beyond.


My opinion here, I felt like most of the posters were pretty gracious, myself in particular. I really felt like I was going out of my way to be understanding when my instincts were telling me otherwise.

I think we were all trying to be gracious in the face of a slew of trolls on this website in the last few years.

The post was unusual, and the reactions were not out of the ordinary.


----------



## Claudia Chapman (Aug 9, 2012)

I understand that you believed Laura was actually a pervert or even a pedophile. Am I correct that this is what you were referring to by "the P word?" Taken in that context, your responses were very restrained. 

I understand that bad things have happened on the forum and that people have posted fraudulently in the past. You believed you were protecting a community that is valuable to you.

I can also see that Laura was remarkably gracious in the face of having her well-intentioned post being received with such suspicion by the Mothering community. She took a risk by being so open in a place that felt safe. It always hurts when we're misunderstood. It always hurts to be wrongly accused. It takes character and integrity to respond to hurtful accusations without lashing out. 

It's good to trust our instincts. I try to do this and I've rarely been proven wrong. But rarely isn't never. How do we respond when we follow what we believe is instinct but it turns out that we were just barking up the wrong tree?


----------



## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

I really appreciate you acknowledging my position and that of others. I also appreciate that you are looking at both sides.

Im not sure if you have read all of the posts, but I think the more recent posts suggest that the OP (Laura not Linda) is viewed as a legitimate poster.



Claudia Chapman said:


> I understand that you believed Linda was actually a pervert or even a pedophile. Am I correct that this is what you were referring to by "the P word?" Taken in that context, your responses were very restrained.
> 
> I understand that bad things have happened on the forum and that people have posted fraudulently in the past. You believed you were protecting a community that is valuable to you.
> 
> ...


----------

