# Chicken pox in dd's school, she *may* have it, should I send her in the am? what about ToT?



## momtoS (Apr 12, 2006)

Chicken pox is going around dd's school. And there have been a couple cases in her class. Yesterday she had a single pimple thingy on her neck. Not itchy. She doesn't notice. Tonight (more than 24 hours later) she has one more pimple on her chest. Not itchy at all. No fever.

So.....I am not sure that it is even the chicken pox.....

So, my question is...if your child has two tiny spots and NO fever and NO itching....would you keep them home or send them to school?

If you child had chicken pox would you still bring them ToT?

What a crappy time to get them if it is chicken pox....(but that isn't my question....)

update: I kept her home today from school. Still two spots and no fever. We will wait and see in the morning....

Update: one of dd's classmates/friends has chicken pox today....her mom said it is her built in Halloween costume.

Additional question: what if I only ToT to people I ask first and either they a)don't mind being exposed b) got the vax and feel safe c) have already had the cp ?

Also...I am curious, and not many people have answered.....would you also keep siblings home assuming they have the CP soon too?


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

It's the pox. That's how it starts. She's going to have a lot more tomorrow. I'd keep her home.


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## thefreckledmama (Jun 1, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *oceanbaby* 
It's the pox. That's how it starts. She's going to have a lot more tomorrow. I'd keep her home.

Yep, this exactly. When I had them as a kid they started off really slowly like this, and I never ran a fever.


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## momtoS (Apr 12, 2006)

Although this was moved to Health and Healing.....my question isn't whether or not she has chicken pox....I am wondering if she only has two spots and no fever if others would keep their children home?????


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

After talking it over with momtoS, I've moved this to Parenting. This thread gets around!


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## mamatoablessing (Oct 17, 2005)

Dang! I wish chicken pox was going around our school. Maybe you can send me an infected towel or something. LOL!


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

If I knew my child had a contagious disease, fever or not, I would not send them. Nor would I allow them to go ToTing. You never know who you might expose, and chicken pox can be very dangerous to some people.

If it were the chicken pox though, I would call up my friends who were looking to expose their kids naturally to it though. As long as I didn't have to worry that they would bring along H1N1 too.









We are having to do ToTing in the house this year, since all three of my kids have the flu right now, so I get how annoying it is (they're all missing the school halloween party that they were so excited about tomorrow too).


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## sunanthem (Jan 29, 2004)

If she is showing signs of having it, no, I would not send my kid to school.


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## momtoS (Apr 12, 2006)

mamatoablessing--I don't mind her get them. But I was just hoping she wouldn't have them for Halloween....


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

School no I would not send her. ToT you bet if she felt up to it I would take her in a heartbeat. My reasoning on that is school she may get sicker so I want her with me ToTing she will be with me so if she does get sicker I could just head home.

I wish it would go around here as well.


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## momtoS (Apr 12, 2006)

Right now it is going around like crazy.....really. Not just her school but several schools...


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## mommy2maya (Jun 7, 2003)

The fever with chicken pox comes BEFORE the spots, and may be mild enough not to be noticed really.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Is it weird that I'm kind of jealous? I really want dd1 and ds2 to get chickenpox. I exposed them _twice_ back in May/June, and nothing.


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## Eeyore35 (Aug 2, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MCatLvrMom2A&X* 
School no I would not send her. ToT you bet if she felt up to it I would take her in a heartbeat. My reasoning on that is school she may get sicker so I want her with me ToTing she will be with me so if she does get sicker I could just head home.

I wish it would go around here as well.

Um,what about the people you'd be exposing to it? It can be more serius in adults,and it's not good for pregnant woman to get it.

OP,maybe see if you can arrange a few friends houses or your daughter to go to,either before or after regular trick or treating times.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Maybe you can post in FYT and ask who wants to be exposed. Then take her around ToTing to all the people who want to be exposed!

I'd keep her home for everything. If she's not got more than 2 spots on Saturday, I'd be tempted to go out ToTing.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

What if she wore gloves as part of her costume? Would that prevent transmission?


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## momtoS (Apr 12, 2006)

I don't see how she could pass it on during ToT? She wouldn't be touching people and I could even hold her bag for her........

I just checked her with a flashlight since it is after midnight....no more spots.......


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## sunanthem (Jan 29, 2004)

Yeah, I wouldn't take her out if she has chicken pox.. she could wipe her nose and put her hand in a bowl of candy, which the next kid would put her hand in. I don't know why anyone would take a kid out who has it. That's not very considerate to others. I had chicken pox at 16 yrs. old and it sucked! And what if an elderly neighbor gets it? It can be really bad for them.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

The risk for transmission during ToT would be very low. I would have her wear gloves and possible a mask of some sort.

My dh has never had cp but he wont be moving out if the kids get it. I guess I just dont see cp as that big a deal for either younger kids or older adults. My sil had it at 30 and yeah she was a bit ill but she got over it just fine with no complications. As have all the other people I know of who got cp as adults.


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## IntrovertExtrovert (Mar 2, 2008)

Please don't take her ToT'ing. You don't know which of your neighbors might be immunocompromised. CP could kill someone with a compromised immune system.


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## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

Dang, I wish you were in Iowa I'm 31 weeks preggo but I had CP 12 years ago so I'm immune, I'll move in with my mom if it means getting my kids CP (DH is immuno comprimised)









Any-hoo, I don't know if I'd do ToT...sucks that she has to miss it though...

I know how she feels though, I got CP the day after Christmas. The worst part was I didn't get to miss school. My brother got them after me...New Years day I think and he got to miss 3 or 4 days of school. So not fair.


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## baltic_ballet (May 17, 2007)

If she dose have CP she would have already exposed anyone she has come in contact with in the last 5 days as a person with chickenpox is infectious from one to five days before the rash appears. Because the contagious period continues until all blisters have formed scabs I wouldn't take her Trick or Treating so she isn't exposing other children or adults which could include someone who has compromised immune system which could be serious as other posters have pointed out.


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## baltic_ballet (May 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoS* 
I don't see how she could pass it on during ToT? She wouldn't be touching people and I could even hold her bag for her........

Chickenpox is a highly infectious disease that spreads from person to person by direct contact or by air from an infected person's coughing or sneezing.


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## Cavy (Aug 21, 2009)

Um, just to clarify something, the fever can come at any point with CP until they are mostly disappearing (dont always scab over ime). I and 2 of DC never had any fever at all, but the other 2 DC who did have fever, it arrived 1-2 days after I was sure it was CP.

tbh, if it was just 2 spots and no other signs of illness then I would assume it was NOT cp; it could be anything, ime.


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## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

Please don't send her to school or go ToT'ing. If you have friends who want exposure maybe you could do a Halloween party at your home instead? Frankly, this seems like a lot more fun to me anyway.

Please respect that there are kids and adults for whom CP is not a mild or benign disease.


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## PaisleyStar (May 3, 2007)

I would not send/take her to either. And I am a big supporter of chicken pox. But when my kids had them this summer, we stayed in when they were contagious. I felt it was rude to do otherwise. OTOH, in the school situation, if her school is full of them and most of the kids have prob already been exposed, I would possibly consider sending her, except she might not be feeling quite herself, so in the end I would prob keep her home anyway.


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

As much as I support not vaccinating and exposing your kids to chicken pox, you really don't have the right to decide to expose other people to the disease. That's not ok. That is the sort of thing that gives non-vaxxers a bad name.


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## momtoS (Apr 12, 2006)

I am keeping her home today...we had a late night and it is pouring rain too. She still has no fever and only two spots. Not itchy.

So....as it is right now I will still bring her trick or treating....I can hold her bag, and we aren't going into peoples houses so the risk for other people is very low. Especially since chicken pox is going around in general. If she gets more spots I wouldn't bring her around other people where there is more direct contact. But ToT where she is standing at the bottom of the stairs (all my neighbours have at least 4 stairs to their front door) will mean she is at least 8 feet away from them......I don't see why I would keep her home?

Also she has a sister, that has no spots (but might) and she isn't going to stay home......


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *oceanbaby* 
It's the pox. That's how it starts. She's going to have a lot more tomorrow. I'd keep her home.

Yep, I agree.

And you should not expose others to pox without their consent. Please keep her home!


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## notneb (Aug 31, 2006)

Chickenpox is very contagious and can be spread through the air - no direct contact is needed. It can be very serious in the elderly and people who are immunocompromised. Please be considerate to your neighbors, and don't take your DD trick or treating.


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## preemiemamarach (Sep 7, 2007)

I can't believe I'm reading this! It's the height of selfishness to knowingly take a child door-to-door with a highly contagious disease. I have an immune deficient child who could get seriously ill and die from it (and can't be vaccinated against it). It blows my mind that anyone thinks one night of collecting candy is worth risking my son's life. And yes, your daughter could expose others even if she doesn't touch anything.

Unreal.

Oh, I had CP on halloween when I was five. My parents kept me home, and guess what? It didn't ruin my life.


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## maygee (Dec 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *preemiemamarach* 
I can't believe I'm reading this! It's the height of selfishness to knowingly take a child door-to-door with a highly contagious disease. I have an immune deficient child who could get seriously ill and die from it (and can't be vaccinated against it). It blows my mind that anyone thinks one night of collecting candy is worth risking my son's life. And yes, your daughter could expose others even if she doesn't touch anything.

Unreal.

Oh, I had CP on halloween when I was five. My parents kept me home, and guess what? It didn't ruin my life.

Yes to all of the above. I'm shocked at this mentality that your child's experience if worth causing other people to become ill. Does that Not sound incredibly selfish to you?

Have the sister bring the bag around and explain the sitch, stay home and do something special with the sick one, but please be responsible and do the right thing.


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## cloe (Jul 22, 2004)

Another hand up here for keeping the kid home. I can't believe this is even a question for you. I would be horrified to know that a woman brought a kid to my home with chicken pox while I am pregnant. If you want to make the decision to expose your kid to chicken pox more power to you it is your choice. But it is not your choice to expose me or my unborn baby. Keep her home and show some respect for others.


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## WatermelonSnow (Feb 15, 2007)

I cannot believe this is even a question. Exposing dozens of people without their consent for the sake of a sack of candy is incredibly selfish and entitled behavior.


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## BlueStateMama (Apr 12, 2004)

Is she dressing as Typhoid Mary??









I'm scratching my head over this one. Mama, are you serious? You're bringing your sick DD out door to door and risking passing this on to with a compromised immune system, someone pregnant, giving another very unlucky person a chance at shingles.... WHY??? For trick or treating? It's a fun time, but sometimes life doesn't cooperate. Promise a special make up day - maybe go out to a movie or for ice cream, stop at a toy store and let her pick out something small - anything where you're not marching an ill child to people's doorsteps.


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## Liquesce (Nov 4, 2006)

How about this: you buy her a bunch of special treats and make up a sort of a Halloween treats bag to enjoy at home along with an evening of kid-friendly Halloween movies, games, or whatever she likes. You could even dress up in costumes if you like, and/or go visiting any family and friends to whom you've explained the situation and who are ok with being around her right now. That way she's not missing out entirely, _and_ you're not roaming the countryside with a potentially pox infested child.


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## pacificbliss (Jun 17, 2006)

I am definitely in the no school, no trick or treating camp. FWIW I had chicken pox as a kid and it was only ever 3 little spots and no fever. I felt fine but still missed school and a birthday party for a friend. In the end my mom and I had do much fun those few days I couldn't go out that it is now a very happy childhood memory. Please don't take her out.


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## Crafty (Jan 13, 2003)

So you're going to take her out and expose immunocompromised people like my friend who is being treated for breast cancer???

Your dd's experience trumps someone else's right to be alive and stay healthy? Really?


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## enkmom (Aug 30, 2004)

Please, please keep her home. I had chicken pox as an adult, and I wouldn't wish that experience on anyone. I couldn't live with myself if I knowingly hurt or killed someone just so my daughter could go trick or treating.

My son had chicken pox over Halloween when he was 4. I bought him some of his favorite treats and we stayed home together (didn't turn on the porch light, either). My husband took my 5 year old daughter out (she had already had and recovered from the pox) and as a surprise, they took along an extra pumpkin for my son. She made out like a bandit asking everyone if she could "please have a piece of candy for my poor little brother who has the chicken pops".


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## mamatoablessing (Oct 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoS* 
I am keeping her home today...we had a late night and it is pouring rain too. She still has no fever and only two spots. Not itchy.

So....as it is right now I will still bring her trick or treating....I can hold her bag, and we aren't going into peoples houses so the risk for other people is very low. Especially since chicken pox is going around in general. If she gets more spots I wouldn't bring her around other people where there is more direct contact. But ToT where she is standing at the bottom of the stairs (all my neighbours have at least 4 stairs to their front door) will mean she is at least 8 feet away from them......I don't see why I would keep her home?

Also she has a sister, that has no spots (but might) and she isn't going to stay home......

OP, are you thinking that she doesn't have the pox at all? I don't know enough about the onset/progression but maybe you could have her checked by a doc today to confirm that she doesn't have it, so you know it's safe for her to go ToTing. If it is the pox, then you won't feel so bad keeping her home (knowing that she does have CP and not just guessing, yk?).


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## mysweetboys (May 18, 2007)

Any chance you could get her to the Dr to confirm whether it is chicken pox or not?

Do you have friends or family in the area who you know are immune and could arrange to bring your DD around just to those homes? (of course not letting her reach in the candy bowl, etc.). What about asking a couple of the kids who have chicken pox to come over for a little Hallowe'en party instead of going Trick or treating? That might be nice for the other parents and kids who are struggling with this right now too.

I am in a somewhat similar situation in that DS#1 is home today with a fever and has a bit of a runny nose from time to time. I suspect it's just a normal virus, but H1N1 is going around here... DS#2 is fine. DS#1 is devastated at the idea of missing Hallowe'en (he is already for sure missing a class party and whole school activities today, a party at the Y tonight, and gymnastics and swimming lessons tomorrow). I have decided that if his fever is gone by 5 pm today I will take him to a few houses tomorrow (but not let him put his hands in a big bowl of candy) since he would be 24 hours fever free. But if, as I expect, he is still feverish within that 24 hour period he will stay home just in case he could spread H1N1 (not that I think it is that, but I am going to operate under the assumption that it could be serious for others to be exposed). I am thinking I will run to the store tomorrow and pick up supplies to prepare some haunted house type activities (e.g. peeled grapes for eyeballs, etc.), get some Hallowe'en craft supplies, and hide candy "treasure" around the house that my kids can use a Pirate's map to find, etc. so at least he will be doing something fun. Maybe we'll get a kids' movie too. I'm not sure if we would take DS#2 out for a short time, or just do the activities at home with both.


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Back in the days before vaccines, you know what people did with kids who had "childhood illnesses?"

They kept them home, in bed, for the entire course of the illness. Because that was what you did.

When all those diseases were in circulation, people KNEW they could be serious. They didn't mess around, they didn't send them to school, they didn't take them grocery shopping, they didn't take them to Halloween parties, and they didn't take them door to door around the entire neighborhood.

They just didn't. Sick children were kept at home. In fact, in many municipalities, sick children were officially put under quarantine by local public health officials. My grandfather was a public health agent in the days before (most) vaccines and before antibiotics. One of his jobs was to go to the houses of people with certain illnesses and post the big, official, QUARANTINE signs on their doors.

If you're not going to vaccinate, if that is the world you want, then you need to LIVE IN THAT WORLD. That world where those diseases are recognized as commonplace BUT potentially serious to certain people, and where sick children are kept home and treated as sick, to help their bodies recover.


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## MaterPrimaePuellae (Oct 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tigerchild* 
If I knew my child had a contagious disease, fever or not, I would not send them. Nor would I allow them to go ToTing. You never know who you might expose, and chicken pox can be very dangerous to some people.

If it were the chicken pox though, I would call up my friends who were looking to expose their kids naturally to it though. As long as I didn't have to worry that they would bring along H1N1 too.









We are having to do ToTing in the house this year, since all three of my kids have the flu right now, so I get how annoying it is (they're all missing the school halloween party that they were so excited about tomorrow too).









ITA with all of this. I would LOVE for my DD to get CP, but I would still be upset if someone brough their CPoxed child around my DD without at least asking first.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Eeyore35* 
Um,what about the people you'd be exposing to it? It can be more serius in adults,and it's not good for pregnant woman to get it.

Yes.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MCatLvrMom2A&X* 
The risk for transmission during ToT would be very low. I would have her wear gloves and possible a mask of some sort.

My dh has never had cp but he wont be moving out if the kids get it. I guess I just dont see cp as that big a deal for either younger kids or older adults. My sil had it at 30 and yeah she was a bit ill but she got over it just fine with no complications. As have all the other people I know of who got cp as adults.

My uncle had CP in his early twenties and was hospitalized. It was very serious and incredibly painful.

I don't care how "mild" or "serious" sickness is. A girl with a fairly mild-seeming cough sat behind me in church when I was 40 weeks pregnant, (presumably) infected me with her cold, and I spent my entire labor not only in labor but miserable with a cold. I'm sure that cold wasn't a big deal to her and wouldn't be to most people, but it sure was a big deal to me!

I think telling children, "I'm sorry, I know you want to ToT, but we have to be considerate of others and be careful when we are sick" is a good way of teaching consideration towards other people and good hygiene.


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## MaterPrimaePuellae (Oct 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *savithny* 
Back in the days before vaccines, you know what people did with kids who had "childhood illnesses?"

They kept them home, in bed, for the entire course of the illness. Because that was what you did.

When all those diseases were in circulation, people KNEW they could be serious. They didn't mess around, they didn't send them to school, they didn't take them grocery shopping, they didn't take them to Halloween parties, and they didn't take them door to door around the entire neighborhood.

They just didn't. Sick children were kept at home. In fact, in many municipalities, sick children were officially put under quarantine by local public health officials. My grandfather was a public health agent in the days before (most) vaccines and before antibiotics. One of his jobs was to go to the houses of people with certain illnesses and post the big, official, QUARANTINE signs on their doors.

If you're not going to vaccinate, if that is the world you want, then you need to LIVE IN THAT WORLD. That world where those diseases are recognized as commonplace BUT potentially serious to certain people, and where sick children are kept home and treated as sick, to help their bodies recover.

I totally agree with all of this!


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

How is she doing by now? Does she have any more spots?

I was just thinking about the valentine's day that I had chicken pox (I was 6ish.) I still got a shoebox full of valentine's from my classmates, even though I missed the party. I don't think staying home ruined it at all. I would bet your DD would enjoy laying around in her costume resting... and having a bag of candy brought to her. Maybe play some spooky music, watch a Halloween cartoon together, or play Uno all evening.


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## ProtoLawyer (Apr 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Drummer's Wife* 
How is she doing by now? Does she have any more spots?

I was just thinking about the valentine's day that I had chicken pox (I was 6ish.) I still got a shoebox full of valentine's from my classmates, even though I missed the party. I don't think staying home ruined it at all. I would bet your DD would enjoy laying around in her costume resting... and having a bag of candy brought to her. Maybe play some spooky music, watch a Halloween cartoon together, or play Uno all evening.

Ditto this. My mom even brought a cup of punch home from the school party for me. (It was also the first time I was allowed to stay home by myself! My mom had to get my little sister--I was in 3rd, she was in K, I think--but thought I'd be safer/more comfortable/less contagious at home for 15 minutes than bundled up and in the car.)

If it does turn out to be actual chicken pox and not just a couple of pimples, your daughter's probably going to be too itchy and miserable to go ToTing, anyway.

To answer your question: No. If my kid had chicken pox, H1N1, seasonal flu, stomach flu--pretty much anything more severe than a cold or seasonal allergies, especially if contagious--she'd be staying home and we'd be dealing with a night of her wailing about how unfair life is and how mean we are and how if she was with her nice MOMMY instead of her evil stepmother and mean old daddy, she'd be not only trick or treating but doing so ALL NIGHT AND INTO TOMORROW.

But yeah, that's a hard part of parenting--making decisions you don't like and your kids don't like.


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## Cuddlefluff (Oct 27, 2009)

I agree with previous posters that trick or treating would expose people to a contagious and potentially very serious illness without their consent, and that that isn't fair.

Perhaps you could tell some of your friends/neighbours about the situation and arrange to go trick or treating just at their houses in a few days, once your daughter is over the pox?


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## nashvillemidwife (Dec 2, 2007)

This thread makes me want to turn off the lights and lock my doors tomorrow night.


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## veganone (May 10, 2007)

Not only do I think you owe it to your neighbors to stay home, I think your other daughter should stay home AND you should not distribute candy to TOTers. Turn off the porch light or put up a sign and eat candy at home while watching fun movies or something.

It's unimaginably selfish to expose people to CP without their knowledge.


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## SweetPotato (Apr 29, 2006)

I don't think we all need to be quite so mean-- the point has definitely come across









I agree- definitely no school or trick or treating. I would definitely be annoyed if someone knowingly brought a sick kid to school, etc. with my child (actually we just had that happen a couple months ago and I was pretty mad!) It's also probably best for your child to get some extra rest, even if she's feeling well.


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## nashvillemidwife (Dec 2, 2007)

I've thought some more about it and I wasn't being all that flippant when I said this discussion makes me want to turn off the lights and not give out candy this year. I have gone to a lot of trouble to keep my baby out of the public as much as possible to protect her from illness, it never occurred to me that someone might knowingly bring their highly infectious child _to my door_ (and have the nerve to ask me for candy).


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## blazer (May 6, 2007)

Just wanted to say that my 6 yo got CP this past May, they started with 1 spot on Thursday afternoon then 2 the next day, by Saturday night she only had about 6 spots.it wasn't til day 4 that they really started to multiple, all with no noticable fever.

14 days to the hour, my 2 yo got his first spot. We basically spent 6 weeks total with the kids isolated. Sucks, but you do what you have to do. Find a way to keep your kiddo home for at least 3-4 days and still have fun!!
Please


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## enkmom (Aug 30, 2004)

Just to add a bit to my above post re my son who stayed home due to chicken pox when he was 4:

It seems like a big deal to you and your daughter NOW, but my son is 19 now and has no memory of having to miss trick or treating. There will be lots of other years for her to trick or treat, and you can make the evening a special one for your family. Have pizza or pop popcorn, make up little treat bags just for her, watch a movie. It doesn't have to be the end of the world if she can't trick or treat one year. Your attitude will show her how to react - if you decide that you two will have fun, she will!


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nashvillemidwife* 
I've thought some more about it and I wasn't being all that flippant when I said this discussion makes me want to turn off the lights and not give out candy this year. I have gone to a lot of trouble to keep my baby out of the public as much as possible to protect her from illness, it never occurred to me that someone might knowingly bring their highly infectious child _to my door_ (and have the nerve to ask me for candy).

No - but people could easily _unknowingly_ bring their highly infectious child to your door, and the risk of exposure is just as high.

Honestly, I get people's concern, but the reality is that anybody (eg. pregnant women, elderly people, people with immune system issues, whether temporary or permanent) who has that much at risk of serious complications would probably be wise to keep their lights off and not hand out treats. Chicken pox is apparently going around in a few places, and there's also the H1N1 thing. People don't have to know they're sick to pass it on.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *savithny* 
Back in the days before vaccines, you know what people did with kids who had "childhood illnesses?"

They kept them home, in bed, for the entire course of the illness. Because that was what you did.

When all those diseases were in circulation, people KNEW they could be serious. They didn't mess around, they didn't send them to school, they didn't take them grocery shopping, they didn't take them to Halloween parties, and they didn't take them door to door around the entire neighborhood.

When was this? I grew up before MMR (I've had both measles and mumps...not rubella). When those diseases were in circulation, people stayed home, sure. It wasn't because they were infectious, though. People didn't even talk about that side of it much. They stayed home because they were _sick_. When I had mumps, I spent the entire day on the couch, dozing off regularly. Going to school wasn't an option. And, for all everybody stayed home, about 40% of my class was out sick with measles in 1984, so it still manages to circulate very thoroughly (when you figure that measles had _also_ gone around when I was little, so some of us, including me, were already immune for the 10th grade epidemic).

I still have to remind myself of threads like this on a regular basis, so I don't do any of these things. It would never have occurred to me to keep a sick kid home on Hallowe'en, unless they were too sick to ToT. I stop and think about these threads every time my children are sick. It's still a strange mindset to me, but I am following it.


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
No - but people could easily _unknowingly_ bring their highly infectious child to your door, and the risk of exposure is just as high.

Honestly, I get people's concern, but the reality is that anybody (eg. pregnant women, elderly people, people with immune system issues, whether temporary or permanent) who has that much at risk of serious complications would probably be wise to keep their lights off and not hand out treats. Chicken pox is apparently going around in a few places, and there's also the H1N1 thing. People don't have to know they're sick to pass it on.

That's all the more reason to avoid *knowingly* doing it, KWIM?

It's like -- yeah, sure. There are people who are sick and shedding germs and don't know it yet. I get that. That's a risk I live with in day to day life.

Why does that make it okay to go around with a child you KNOW is sick and shedding germs? I don't get that?

That's like saying "Well, its okay for me to walk around in this Klan hood, because there are all kinds of people who are *closet* racists, and you don't even know they're there!" Or "Lots of people drive after having two or three drinks, when they really shouldn't -- so its okay for ME to have four or five!!"


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

You know, I gotta agree that if you are going to pass out candy to TOT'ers, you are putting yourself and family at risk for a variety of illnesses. Even if you were super careful about not letting their hands touch the candy in the bowl, you are sharing breathing space and possible physical contact every time someone comes to the door.

Fear of sickness wouldn't be enough for me to not pass out candy if that was something I was looking forward to, unless I had high risk/immune compromised people living in my home... BUT, this child potentially having CP (which, I 100% think they should keep her home) is not really upping the chances that drastically - there are other viruses going around. Remember that people are more likely to be contagious before the onset of symptoms.

We won't pass out candy, because we won't be home - and people go to other neighborhoods, anyway, to avoid long walks in the dirt from one property to the other.

I do think if getting sick is a huge concern -- then don't go trick or treating, or pass out candy at your door.







.


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## momtoS (Apr 12, 2006)

OP here









I honestly didn't think this topic would make me seem so.....horrible.

My daughter's school has had chicken pox since the beginning of September. No parents were notified until this week, when 10 kids were sick with it. So.....children have been exposed to it for two months without any knowledge of it. Should all the students stay home? It takes 10-14 after exposure to develop spots....there could be many more students (and they are getting more calls at the school) over the weekend. Other schools have it. Social groups have it going around.

Would other expect that I keep my other daughter home? Assuming since she and her sister share everything, even drink out of the same cup sometimes...that in about two weeks she could get it.

I guess







I never thought that if someone is at a very high risk of catching something that is outside, probably around 8 feet away from their door, not touching anything of theirs, that prehaps they would be too frail or ill to answer the door. And I worked in a hospital while pregnant.....there are alot of things going around and


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## maygee (Dec 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
*No - but people could easily unknowingly bring their highly infectious child to your door, and the risk of exposure is just as high.*

Honestly, I get people's concern, but the reality is that anybody (eg. pregnant women, elderly people, people with immune system issues, whether temporary or permanent) who has that much at risk of serious complications would probably be wise to keep their lights off and not hand out treats. Chicken pox is apparently going around in a few places, and there's also the H1N1 thing. People don't have to know they're sick to pass it on.

All the more reason to do what's right when you know you might be infectious.
Whether it's somebody with a compromised immune system, or a child whose parents cannot afford to stay home for 3 weeks, or just someone who doesn't want to be sick, I think we have a social obligation to keep kids we suspect are highly contagious away from large congregations of people. It's not mean, it's not judgmental, it's absolute common sense and courtesy, and I'm stunned anyone is arguing the contrary.


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## indie (Jun 16, 2003)

I missed the Valentine's Day festivities at school when I was six and had CP. I was disappointed at the time, but there have been no long term repercussions I assure you.

And its worth considering that its not good for your child's immune system to be loading up on candy while it trying to fight an illness.


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoS* 
OP here









I honestly didn't think this topic would make me seem so.....horrible.

My daughter's school has had chicken pox since the beginning of September. No parents were notified until this week, when 10 kids were sick with it. So.....children have been exposed to it for two months without any knowledge of it. Should all the students stay home? It takes 10-14 after exposure to develop spots....there could be many more students (and they are getting more calls at the school) over the weekend. Other schools have it. Social groups have it going around.

Would other expect that I keep my other daughter home? Assuming since she and her sister share everything, even drink out of the same cup sometimes...that in about two weeks she could get it.

I guess







I never thought that if someone is at a very high risk of catching something that is outside, probably around 8 feet away from their door, not touching anything of theirs, that prehaps they would be too frail or ill to answer the door. And I worked in a hospital while pregnant.....there are alot of things going around and

Again, just because "its out there," doesn't mean its okay to *knowingly* go around with it, KWIM? That's like saying that because the geese poop all over the public park its okay to watch your dog do it too and not clean up afterwards.

You're right, seriously immunocompromised people probably shouldn't be opening the door to hordes of little germ vectors... I mean kids. But the other half of that social contract is simply that if you KNOW you or your child has a communicable disease, you don't take them out where they could cough, sneeze, or otherwise leave their germs all over the communal candy bowl that dozens of other kids will also be contacting.


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## momtoS (Apr 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *savithny* 
But the other half of that social contract is simply that if you KNOW you or your child has a communicable disease, you don't take them out where they could cough, sneeze, or otherwise leave their germs all over the communal candy bowl that dozens of other kids will also be contacting.

But would if she doesn't go anywhere near the door? What if she doesn't touch anything?

Should her sister not go out either? Assume she will have it in a week or two....

Right now, she still only has two spots and no fever. I am not positive that this is the chicken pox....prehaps if she has more tomorrow I will have to think of other plans....


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## riverscout (Dec 22, 2006)

What about all the other groups of kids you will run into along the way?


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *savithny* 
That's all the more reason to avoid *knowingly* doing it, KWIM?

umm...no, I don't know what you mean. That makes no sense to me at all.

Quote:

Why does that make it okay to go around with a child you KNOW is sick and shedding germs? I don't get that?
I never said it did.

Quote:

That's like saying "Well, its okay for me to walk around in this Klan hood, because there are all kinds of people who are *closet* racists, and you don't even know they're there!" Or "Lots of people drive after having two or three drinks, when they really shouldn't -- so its okay for ME to have four or five!!"
I don't actually see either of these as analogous to the OP, but that's a side issue.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maygee* 
All the more reason to do what's right when you know you might be infectious.

Why is it "all the more reason"? I'm not following this at all. Because people could easily be unknowingly exposed to a disease, that's _more_ reason not do so knowingly? I can't even begin to follow this logic.

Quote:

Whether it's somebody with a compromised immune system, or a child whose parents cannot afford to stay home for 3 weeks, or just someone who doesn't want to be sick, I think we have a social obligation to keep kids we suspect are highly contagious away from large congregations of people.
Well, honestly, if the parents honestly _can't_ afford to stay home for 3 weeks (who really can?), they probably won't. So, they'll send their kid to school and just not mention it for as long as they can.

Quote:

It's not mean, it's not judgmental, it's absolute common sense and courtesy, and I'm stunned anyone is arguing the contrary.
I'm not sure who was actually arguing it, actually. I'm just astounded at the "how can you be such a selfish, evil person?" vibe in some of these posts. You may see this as "common sense and courtesy", but it's not something I've come across much irl. The vast majority of people I've ever met see it the same way I do - getting sick is part of life, and it sucks, and so what? We're going to get sick. As most of us see it that way from our side, we tend to act the same way on the other side...and the vast majority of people we know are perfectly okay with that. It's not so much about being selfish as simply having a completely different world view.


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## momtoS (Apr 12, 2006)

I am trying to get a handle on what people think is doing the right thing.

Should all the siblings of the infected students at my daughter's school be told to stay home? Because they are most likely to get chicken pox (they are alot closer than 8 feet away outdoors to their siblings right?)

Should my other daughter not go to her class tomorrow, assuming that she will get it and she can pass it along before the spots come out?

I will wait for feedback and then I am going to post an idea I have.

I am not trying to be a horrible person I just want to see what people think.

Also....I read someone's reply about their loved one have treatment for breast cancer. In all honesty, with H1N1, chicken pox, fifth disease, and hand foot and mouth going around (yup that is the list at my daughters school







) if I were her I would not risk it.....I wouldn't hand out candy. When my FIL had cancer we limited restaurant visits etc because of that. And when visiting....really good hand washing.


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## nashvillemidwife (Dec 2, 2007)

OP, everyone keeps telling you don't do it, and you keep saying "but... but...". If you want to take her out, then do it. Your continued unacceptance of the advice you've asked for suggests you're just looking for validation of a decision you've already made. Is there really anything else to be said here?


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## momtoS (Apr 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *riverscout* 
What about all the other groups of kids you will run into along the way?

There aren't very many kids....all of them go to dd's school. SO they have already been exposed. And we wouldn't touch them.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nashvillemidwife* 
OP, everyone keeps telling you don't do it, and you keep saying "but... but...". If you want to take her out, then do it. Your continued unacceptance of the advice you've asked for suggests you're just looking for validation of a decision you've already made. Is there really anything else to be said here?

All of the OP's "buts" were questions. She's trying to find out if there's a safe way to do this. If people don't feel there is one, that's fine. But, trying to find a way to do it isn't the same thing as "I'm going to do it, no matter what".

She's also asked some good questions about her other child, and infected siblings.


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## momtoS (Apr 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
.

I'm not sure who was actually arguing it, actually. I'm just astounded at the "how can you be such a selfish, evil person?" vibe in some of these posts. You may see this as "common sense and courtesy", but it's not something I've come across much irl. The vast majority of people I've ever met see it the same way I do - getting sick is part of life, and it sucks, and so what? We're going to get sick. As most of us see it that way from our side, we tend to act the same way on the other side...and the vast majority of people we know are perfectly okay with that. It's not so much about being selfish as simply having a completely different world view.


I guess that's how I see it. My daughter's classmates have had lice, fifth's disease, hand, foot and mouth disease and chicken pox so far this year and the same last thing last year. I chalk it up to being a kid in school. I can't/don't/won't bubble wrap my children in fear of childhood illnesses.


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## Eeyore35 (Aug 2, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
When was this? I grew up before MMR (I've had both measles and mumps...not rubella). When those diseases were in circulation, people stayed home, sure. It wasn't because they were infectious, though. People didn't even talk about that side of it much. They stayed home because they were _sick_. When I had mumps, I spent the entire day on the couch, dozing off regularly. Going to school wasn't an option. And, for all everybody stayed home, about 40% of my class was out sick with measles in 1984, so it still manages to circulate very thoroughly (when you figure that measles had _also_ gone around when I was little, so some of us, including me, were already immune for the 10th grade epidemic).

I still have to remind myself of threads like this on a regular basis, so I don't do any of these things. It would never have occurred to me to keep a sick kid home on Hallowe'en, unless they were too sick to ToT. I stop and think about these threads every time my children are sick. It's still a strange mindset to me, but I am following it.

I was born in the early 70's,and I'm almost positive I had at least one mmr shot. I'd have to check my babybook to know for sure. I never hd measles,I know that.

I was definitely before the cp vaccine,and yeah,you stayed home,or only went round people who already had or wanted to get chicken pox.

When my dr. had chicken pox,I took her in as soon as i suspected it. Dr. said it wasn't,(and there was no known exposure). I asked if it was ok for her to go to her swimming lesson the next day. He assured me it was. Wthin two day,more spots,and the dr.finaly said yeah,it's cp. I had to call and explain tohtelady organizing the swimming lessons,so she could notify parents. I just fet sick,as there was a pregnant mom there,and I didnt know her status. (she as fine,btw)

I took her to -day party after her spots crusted over or whatever,and te na couple day later,she had a bunch of new ones. I wouldnot haetken her if I knew that could happen. I also knew who would be at the party,so wasn't as worried,though.

yeah,it sucked staying home. She did miss one wimming lesson,and I'm a single mom.so it made it difficult to get groceries and stuff.

I missed work today,which I seriously can't afford to,because my daughter threw up during the night.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoS* 
There aren't very many kids....all of them go to dd's school. SO they have already been exposed. And we wouldn't touch them.

The touching part isn't really relevant, though - chickenpox is also airborne.


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## momtoS (Apr 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
All of the OP's "buts" were questions. She's trying to find out if there's a safe way to do this. If people don't feel there is one, that's fine. But, trying to find a way to do it isn't the same thing as "I'm going to do it, no matter what".

She's also asked some good questions about her other child, and infected siblings.


Yes..I have asked questions about her sibling....I am truly interested to hear what people have to say about her. I am assuming that she will eventually get it too. Do I keep her in for weeks waiting?

No...I don't want to be a jerk. Really.

And....if my neighbours children are in the same school, with the same classmates, playing with the same toys, would they not have already been exposed? There is one neighbour who really likes my girls, but her girls are in highschool....and she usually buys something for the girls. Because her children don't go to the infected school I was going to call her and ask if we could stop by (if everyone has had it) and of course not come in to her house or touch anything to pick up our treat (yes...I DO KNOW SHE HAS SOMETHING....we walk her dog and she really likes the girls....)


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## maygee (Dec 22, 2006)

Then do it, and be totally at ease with your decision to potentially expose the general public to your child's disease. I think it's wrong. You asked what everyone thought. We answered. We gave personal accounts of keeping kids home, or being kept home as kids. You continue to think it's fine and if anyone gets it it's their fault for daring to open their door. I don't think you are evil, but I think you are absolutely wrong.


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## momtoS (Apr 12, 2006)

t
What is everyone's opinion on bringing her sister out? I haven't seen ANY replies to my sibling questions.....please.


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## Abraisme (Mar 8, 2009)

Take her to my house.. I'd love my kids to get CP (since they're not vaccinated).


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## momtoS (Apr 12, 2006)

And to those that asked if I can get her into the doctor (I am in the north so it takes a while) I could call on Monday and see......but if she is covered by then I won't bother.....

What if I called the neighbours (who's children all go to school with the other kids that have got the chicken pox already) and ask them if their kids have been infected before or if they are okay with us coming over? Would that be okay?


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## momtoS (Apr 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Abraisme* 
Take her to my house.. I'd love my kids to get CP (since they're not vaccinated).









I would love too....lol. I don't know anyone around here looking for the chicken pox though...darn it.

Funny thing more than half the sicks that have got the chicken pox at school have been vaccinated.......


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## momtoS (Apr 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maygee* 
Then do it, and be totally at ease with your decision to potentially expose the general public to your child's disease. I think it's wrong. You asked what everyone thought. We answered. We gave personal accounts of keeping kids home, or being kept home as kids. You continue to think it's fine and if anyone gets it it's their fault for daring to open their door. I don't think you are evil, but I think you are absolutely wrong.

Do you think I should keep her sister home too?


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## momtoS (Apr 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
The touching part isn't really relevant, though - chickenpox is also airborne.


So...if it is going around my city....it could be at the grocery store, the school, or church etc. Is it possible that direct contact could make it more possible to catch than quite distant contact.


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## momtoS (Apr 12, 2006)

My BIL is on his way over....he and my SIL are ttc so I told him that dd *may* have chicken pox just incase he didn't want to come in the house....he said he is not at all concerned....should I have told him he can't come in at all?


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## pacificbliss (Jun 17, 2006)

momtoS,
I don't think siblings have to stay home if the are not symptomatic. Even with highly contagious illnesses exposure does not not mean infecton. When I had CP my sister didn't get it. My Mom was upset because she hoped my sister could get it out of the way. We were all exposed to a child with CP at school and not everyone got it.


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## Smokering (Sep 5, 2007)

Please don't.

Wanna know how I found out I was pregnant with DD? The boy I took care of (autism therapy) was sent to school and thence to my house by his mother who knew FULL WELL he had chicken pox, but decided to let someone else deal with it. I only found out he had them when I pulled his blanket off him after his nap and saw his tummy was covered with pox. When I rang his grandmother (primary caregiver), her first question was "You're not pregnant, are you?" I didn't think I was, but I took a test that night and... yup! Not knowing much about chicken pox I rang a doctor at the hospital to see if it'd be OK, and she gave me some doom-and-gloom scenario about how the baby would probably be damaged or die and I should "consider my options". So that was fun. Fortunately the second opinion I got assured me that it was unlikely I wasn't immune to it if I'd already had it, which calmed me down a bit. But I still had to wait a week for the blood tests to come back, confirming that I was indeed immune and that my baby wasn't going to be born with two heads.









I was livid with the mother anyway, because she had _no idea_ whether I was immune to CP or not, or pregnant or not, and still couldn't be bothered to let me know her son was infectious. (Incidentally, the blood tests also confirmed I'm not immune to rubella despite being vaxed for it AND having had it... so you never know!) Luckily it only ruined the we're-having-a-baby excitement for a week; it could have ruined my daughter's life. I'm sorry to go all melodramatic on you, but CP is NOT just an easy little illness for everyone. Even having had it doesn't mean you're necessarily immune - I believe my doctor said it was 90% immunity after infection, which still leaves a hefty 10%.


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Your argument is that "well, people are contagious before they know it, so I might as well be out contagious anyway."

What part of "It is different if you do not know you are sick" is so complicated? There's a huge difference between doing something because you honestly do not know you are doing it (exposing people to a disease before you become sick with it) and knowingly exposing people to a disease that you know you have.

You cannot know you're sick before you are sick. Once you DO know you're sick, the responsible thing is to not go around spreading what you have.

Now, in the case of "exposed to," its a judgement call. If you have the possibility of serious contact with a confirmed case, that would be different from casual contact with a possible case.

IN your case, if I wasn't sure that one sister had pox and the other sister was symptom free, I'd consider letting the symptom free one go. EXCEPT for the fairness issue of one child getting to go while the other doesn't. Honestly, wiht my kids and their interpersonal issues, I'd probably NOT let one sibling go while the other stayed home. I'd say "It looks from these spots like you both will be coming down with Pox soon, so we shouldn't go out." and then I'd offer an alternative, like having friends over, or something like taht.


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

I wouldn't take a child actually coming down with CP. It's contagious from the moment fever or spots appears (theoretically a day or two before, maybe), until the last spot crusts over. I also, though, would not keep kids who might have been exposed in the last few days from t-o-t or anything else.

CP shows up 10-21 days after exposure, and is not contagious until 8 days (for theoretical cases, none proven) after exposure. So... kid exposed to CP 4 days ago, not contagious, not a chance of it, not a theoretical but-maybe. (I would probably NOT tell people who are CP-freaked-out though, because they generally don't understand this concept.)


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## JudiAU (Jun 29, 2008)

Please don't send her TOTing or send the sibilings to school. it can be quite serious for certain groups.


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
When was this? I grew up before MMR (I've had both measles and mumps...not rubella). When those diseases were in circulation, people stayed home, sure. It wasn't because they were infectious, though. People didn't even talk about that side of it much. They stayed home because they were _sick_. When I had mumps, I spent the entire day on the couch, dozing off regularly. Going to school wasn't an option. And, for all everybody stayed home, about 40% of my class was out sick with measles in 1984, so it still manages to circulate very thoroughly (when you figure that measles had _also_ gone around when I was little, so some of us, including me, were already immune for the 10th grade epidemic).

I still have to remind myself of threads like this on a regular basis, so I don't do any of these things. It would never have occurred to me to keep a sick kid home on Hallowe'en, unless they were too sick to ToT. I stop and think about these threads every time my children are sick. It's still a strange mindset to me, but I am following it.

HEre's an interesting historical document:

http://books.google.com/books?id=0Og...age&q=&f=false

IT's a book of public health laws passed in the US by the states during 1915.

Flipping through it, I see state after state law requiring quarantine for measles, mumps, diptheria, chicken pox.

Check out page 188 and following. The state of Illinois required _immediate_ reporting to the local health authorities of all cases of chicken pox. Placards were then affixed to each outside entrance of the house, 10x15 inches, declaring that there was pox within. The affected child was confined to that building for 2 weeks, or until skin was smooth. All other children in the family were confined to that building for 2 weeks from date of last exposure.

Quarantine for whooping cough was EIGHT weeks from first "whoop." Other children who had not had whooping cough were excluded from school and supposed to be kept home for 2 weeks.

Measles patients were quarantined for 14 days from the beginning of the disease, and were excluded from school for 3 weeks from the onset of disease.

This really is how infectious diseases were treated, prevaccinne and ESPECIALLY before antibiotics came along to deal with secondary bacterial infections. People treated these diseases very seriously -- not with the offhand "Oh, they were no big deal!!" that people seem to think now. It wasn't "Go about your business, everyone gets these diseases." People just didn't take their kids around infecting everyone so that their kids could "have fun." If you had somethign infectious, you were supposed to be home, getting better.

It is possible to eliminate some diseases with effective quarantine alone. New Zealand (or Australia, I forget) eliminated smallpox without vaccinations through rigourous quarantine programs.

PS: MMR, possibly separate, were all available by the time I was born in '69.


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

Although, having just read the whole thread... I would probably in this case email/call the parents at the school whose children have already been exposed to one another at school, and say "hey, we don't want to expose anyone new, but DDs really want to show off their costumes to their buddies. Can we stop by your house for T o T?" I bet most will figure the kids are already exposed so what's the difference? Plus it can become a group going to one another's houses where the germs have already been shared. You could even add a couple of family members/close friends, and make a list of the smaller number of houses you're going to go visit for T o T.

No one is exposed unknowingly, the kids get to T o T.

I know that you *might* randomly pass someone on the street while T o T, but you're not touching candy in a bowl they're going to get candy from, or anything, so honestly I think it would be fine.


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## felix23 (Nov 7, 2006)

Please keep her at home. My dd1 caught whooping cough from some one who knowingly brought their child out sick because they didn't want to miss a special event. Thank God it was only a mild case and dd2 didn't get it, but I still ended up keeping her at home for around a month just so I could be on the safe side with dd2.

My older siblings and I had CP in the early 80's and my poor mom didn't go anywhere from Oct. to Jan. My brother caught it right before Halloween, so my mom kept us all home just to be safe, my sister came down with it mid-Nov., so we missed Thanksgiving events, and then I didn't get it till mid-Dec., so she had to stay home with me during all the Christmas events. Yes it sucked, but that is what everyone did back then. If you know you are sick, stay at home.

I personally would keep the sibling at home, but I tend to be very cautious about stuff like that. I don't want to have to call people up and tell them that I exposed their child to an illness, especially if I knew there was a chance that my child might be in the begining stages of an illness.


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## graceomalley (Dec 8, 2006)

No. CP is highly contagious and even though personally my own kids sailed through it with only minor discomfort that's not how it is for everyone. It would be irresponsible for you to take your daughter TOTing this year.


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## momtoS (Apr 12, 2006)

So.....I am trying to understand everyone's points. It is not okay to go ToT'ing even if I don't let dd touch anything. Or even walk up the steps.

BUT

I could invite people over to a pox party.....so I could invite x number of kids and they could get it, (both old and young) and before they get spots they could infect many many unknowing people.....but that would be okay because?????

or is it a rule if you have a pox party that all childrens stay home and have no contact with anyone for 21 days? I am only asking because I am not familiar with pox parties.......


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## maygee (Dec 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoS* 
Do you think I should keep her sister home too?

Well, if you're that certain she has it and is contagious, I would say yes, based on what you've said.

If you have a child that you KNOW is sick or that you purposefully and knowingly exposed to CP with the specific intention of getting them sick, then YES, they should be quarantined. It's a big deal to some people even if you don't care.


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## riverscout (Dec 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I still have to remind myself of threads like this on a regular basis, so I don't do any of these things. It would never have occurred to me to keep a sick kid home on Hallowe'en, unless they were too sick to ToT. I stop and think about these threads every time my children are sick. It's still a strange mindset to me, but I am following it.

I'm just curious, what would qualify as "too sick?" Like they didn't feel well enough or do you mean some specific symptoms?


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoS* 
So.....I am trying to understand everyone's points. It is not okay to go ToT'ing even if I don't let dd touch anything. Or even walk up the steps.

BUT

I could invite people over to a pox party.....so I could invite x number of kids and they could get it, (both old and young) and before they get spots they could infect many many unknowing people.....but that would be okay because?????

or is it a rule if you have a pox party that all childrens stay home and have no contact with anyone for 21 days? I am only asking because I am not familiar with pox parties.......

The only people I know who have done pox parties are homeschoolers, and yeah, that's pretty much what they did.

At a pox party, everyone there *wants* to get them. They know what they're signing up for. Ideally, I'd talk with the people who come about not going around spreading pox willynilly to those who might not be so excited to get it naturally. But at least you know that your conscious exposures were willing.

What you're proposing doing is like having a pox party for your whole neighborhood -- but not actually telling them its a pox party until the end of the party when you hand out the goody bags.


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## felix23 (Nov 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoS* 
So.....I am trying to understand everyone's points. It is not okay to go ToT'ing even if I don't let dd touch anything. Or even walk up the steps.

BUT

I could invite people over to a pox party.....so I could invite x number of kids and they could get it, (both old and young) and before they get spots they could infect many many unknowing people.....but that would be okay because?????

or is it a rule if you have a pox party that all childrens stay home and have no contact with anyone for 21 days? I am only asking because I am not familiar with pox parties.......


I've only known a couple of people who went to pox parties, and yes they did plan to stay at home for about a month following the exposure.


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## BlueStateMama (Apr 12, 2004)

Quote:

I could invite people over to a pox party.....so I could invite x number of kids and they could get it, (both old and young) and before they get spots they could infect many many unknowing people.....but that would be okay because?????
People *choose*to go to a pox party. People don't choose to have individuals knowing they're activley infected with X,Y,Z disease knocking on their door. Sure, we all roll the dice every day in the general poplice, but if my little ones are sick, I don't think I have the right to take away that CHOICE of exposure from others.

We're talking about trick or treating here, right? Not showing up at the ER to get a blood transfusion. It's difficult for kiddos to be sad, but there are other "treats" we can avail them of to alleve the disappointment ....


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## momtoS (Apr 12, 2006)

Okay...I didn't know that pox party attendees typically stay home for a month afterwards....that makes sense I guess.


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## momtoS (Apr 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlueStateMama* 
People *choose*to go to a pox party. People don't choose to have individuals knowing they're activley infected with X,Y,Z disease knocking on their door. Sure, we all roll the dice every day in the general poplice, but if my little ones are sick, I don't think I have the right to take away that CHOICE of exposure from others.

We're talking about trick or treating here, right? Not showing up at the ER to get a blood transfusion. It's difficult for kiddos to be sad, but there are other "treats" we can avail them of to alleve the disappointment ....

I didn't know that people that attended pox parties stayed home for a month following the party to avoid infecting unknowing people....I have never really heard of a pox party....


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## momtoS (Apr 12, 2006)

We have been invited to trick or treat a few people houses that are okay with it. Or have chicken pox themselves.


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## maygee (Dec 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoS* 
We have been invited to trick or treat a few people houses that are okay with it. Or have chicken pox themselves.

Hey, that's the PERFECT solution! Have fun!


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## notneb (Aug 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoS* 
So.....I am trying to understand everyone's points. It is not okay to go ToT'ing even if I don't let dd touch anything. Or even walk up the steps.

BUT

I could invite people over to a pox party.....so I could invite x number of kids and they could get it, (both old and young) and before they get spots they could infect many many unknowing people.....but that would be okay because?????

or is it a rule if you have a pox party that all childrens stay home and have no contact with anyone for 21 days? I am only asking because I am not familiar with pox parties.......

Yes. I took DS to a pox party earlier this year. He didn't end up getting pox, but we stayed away from public areas until we knew that was the case. It's the responsible thing to do. Obviously I don't have a problem with intentionally exposing my children, but it's not a decision I have any right to make for others, especially with a disease that can be so devastating to certain groups of people.


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

I'd say taking her sibling is okay, since she wouldn't be contagious yet.

While I don't think it's a good idea to take a contagious child out in public out of respect for others, I wouldn't want my kid trick or treating while ill because of how hard it would be on their immune system to eat all that sugar.


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## preemiemamarach (Sep 7, 2007)

For anyone who thinks it inconvenient to keep your kid home after intentionally infecting them with a highly contagious vpd, imagine the inconvenience those of us with medically fragile kids go through when our kids get extremely sick and end up in the hospital from exposure.

And ftr, my kid looks perfectly healthy, not too frail to answer the door. But because I can't trust people to keep their kids home when infectious, I have to keep *my* kids at home.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *preemiemamarach* 
For anyone who thinks it inconvenient to keep your kid home after intentionally infecting them with a highly contagious vpd, imagine the inconvenience those of us with medically fragile kids go through when our kids get extremely sick and end up in the hospital from exposure.

And ftr, my kid looks perfectly healthy, not too frail to answer the door. But because I can't trust people to keep their kids home when infectious, I have to keep *my* kids at home.

That really sucks. I'm sorry that you and your child have to deal with that.

I kept my son home when he had chicken pox. It was lame, a total PITA and we all hated it, but it was the right thing to do. I am not one to get hysterical about illnesses, but I do understand that people DIE from the chicken pox all the time. And I always think about parents not being able to work/financial hardship caused by me recklessly exposing other people to diseases/viruses.


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

I would not go trick or treating.

DD has had chicken pox twice. Both times were very mild cases. She developed very few spots. I might not have though it was chicken pox, if I didn't know she'd been exposed. She was still contagious at the time, and I was careful to limit her exposure to others. Since she didn't look ill, and didn't have lots of obvious spots, there were no typical warning signs for other people to see.

It's tough for kiddies to miss out on trick or treating, but there are lots of fun things to do for Hallowe'en. You can start some new traditions. Hope everyone is well soon.


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoS* 
We have been invited to trick or treat a few people houses that are okay with it. Or have chicken pox themselves.

YAY! I think that's the best possible solution!


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## DaughterOfKali (Jul 15, 2007)

I'd just ask the neighbors ahead of time if they'd be ok with it.


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## leighi123 (Nov 14, 2007)

You can come TOT at my house! Ds hasnt had it yet and I want him too!

I would go, but I would let her know before hand that is she is going to cough/sneeze or whatever to not do it on anyone.

Here people put the candy in your bag for you, so no one is dipping into the big bowl, but maybe for houses where they have you do that, mom could grab the candy instead.


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## momtoS (Apr 12, 2006)

This thread has given me alot to think about. One thing I have noticed is people talking about my children reaching into a bowl/bag to pick their candy. This has never happened. I don't ever remember reaching in as a kid either. Every halloween the candy is put into the bag by the person giving it out.

Anyways...I have talked to alot of people, neighbours, and her classmates parents. NO ONE has a problem with me bringing her out. Actually.....they were surprised that I was keeping her home from gymnastics today. Which...I am keeping her home from!


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## momtoS (Apr 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leighi123* 
You can come TOT at my house! Ds hasnt had it yet and I want him too!

I would go, but I would let her know before hand that is she is going to cough/sneeze or whatever to not do it on anyone.

Here people put the candy in your bag for you, so no one is dipping into the big bowl, but maybe for houses where they have you do that, mom could grab the candy instead.


Heck I would love to be in Florida ToT'ing. It is cold and raining here....


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## felix23 (Nov 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoS* 
This thread has given me alot to think about. One thing I have noticed is people talking about my children reaching into a bowl/bag to pick their candy. This has never happened. I don't ever remember reaching in as a kid either. Every halloween the candy is put into the bag by the person giving it out.

Anyways...I have talked to alot of people, neighbours, and her classmates parents. NO ONE has a problem with me bringing her out. Actually.....they were surprised that I was keeping her home from gymnastics today. Which...I am keeping her home from!


It is kind of scary that people now days don't understand how dangerous some of these diseases can be, and they have no problem taking sick children out into public. I am so glad that you are doing the right thing and keeping her at home.


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## momtoS (Apr 12, 2006)

Well....I am not keeping her at home we are going some friends/relatives houses (it is pouring rain so we will drive) to trick or treat. They have said they have NO problem with us coming. So it is the best of both.....not spreading illness and still having fun!


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## felix23 (Nov 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoS* 
Well....I am not keeping her at home we are going some friends/relatives houses (it is pouring rain so we will drive) to trick or treat. They have said they have NO problem with us coming. So it is the best of both.....not spreading illness and still having fun!

I meant keeping her at home from gymnastics.


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## nashvillemidwife (Dec 2, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoS* 
Well....I am not keeping her at home we are going some friends/relatives houses (it is pouring rain so we will drive) to trick or treat. They have said they have NO problem with us coming. So it is the best of both.....not spreading illness and still having fun!

I'm glad you have found a solution. I know how disappointed she would be if she could not participate.


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## mommy2maya (Jun 7, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoS* 
This thread has given me alot to think about. One thing I have noticed is people talking about my children reaching into a bowl/bag to pick their candy. This has never happened. I don't ever remember reaching in as a kid either. Every halloween the candy is put into the bag by the person giving it out.

Anyways...I have talked to alot of people, neighbours, and her classmates parents. NO ONE has a problem with me bringing her out. Actually.....they were surprised that I was keeping her home from gymnastics today. Which...I am keeping her home from!

AIR SPACE. AIR SPACE. She is still breathing, coughing, sneezing, hacking in their air space.


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoS* 
This thread has given me alot to think about. One thing I have noticed is people talking about my children reaching into a bowl/bag to pick their candy. This has never happened. I don't ever remember reaching in as a kid either. Every halloween the candy is put into the bag by the person giving it out.

Anyways...I have talked to alot of people, neighbours, and her classmates parents. NO ONE has a problem with me bringing her out. *Actually.....they were surprised that I was keeping her home from gymnastics today. Which...I am keeping her home from!*

Seriously? People are surprised you are keeping a contagious child home????


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## riverscout (Dec 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoS* 
Anyways...I have talked to alot of people, neighbours, and her classmates parents. NO ONE has a problem with me bringing her out. Actually.....they were surprised that I was keeping her home from gymnastics today. Which...I am keeping her home from!

Do you think they feel that way because she only has two spots and they think you are overreacting by assuming it's CP, or do they seem to think it's no big deal to take a child with CP to classes and out in public in general? If it's the latter, I find that pretty disturbing.


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *riverscout* 
Do you think they feel that way because she only has two spots and they think you are overreacting by assuming it's CP, or do they seem to think it's no big deal to take a child with CP to classes and out in public in general? If it's the latter, I find that pretty disturbing.

Me too. Like I've said above, I think this attitude of taking all these things so lightly is something that has grown up since widespread vaccination and antibiotics. We all think diseases must be no big deal for everyone, MOSTLY because most of us have not had most of them, and assume that if we get them, complications are all easy to deal with using modern drugs.

I'm a big fan of modern medicine, but I'm not going to assume that the killers and maimers of the past are now "No biggie."


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## dogretro (Jun 17, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoS* 
This thread has given me alot to think about. One thing I have noticed is people talking about my children reaching into a bowl/bag to pick their candy. This has never happened. I don't ever remember reaching in as a kid either. Every halloween the candy is put into the bag by the person giving it out.


No comment on the CP thing, but I think the bowl thing is a house-to-house preference. I like to buy a variety pack of candy b/c I like to give the kids a choice on what candy they get. It is usually just 2 different kinds. So, yes, I offer the bowl and tell them to take one









Have fun tot, Im glad you found a workable solution!


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## mamakah (Nov 5, 2008)

I'm a non vaxing parent. cp does not scare me. However, I would never knowingly expose other people to a sickness just because I wasn't threatened by it. I would not take her trick or treating. Maybe ask a friend to carry and extra bag and tell people they are collecting candy for their friend with cp?


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## mamakah (Nov 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoS* 
We have been invited to trick or treat a few people houses that are okay with it. Or have chicken pox themselves.

sorry didn't read all the way through the thread. that perfect!


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## Rivka5 (Jul 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *savithny* 
Back in the days before vaccines, you know what people did with kids who had "childhood illnesses?"

They kept them home, in bed, for the entire course of the illness. Because that was what you did.

When all those diseases were in circulation, people KNEW they could be serious. They didn't mess around, they didn't send them to school, they didn't take them grocery shopping, they didn't take them to Halloween parties, and they didn't take them door to door around the entire neighborhood.

They just didn't. Sick children were kept at home. In fact, in many municipalities, sick children were officially put under quarantine by local public health officials. My grandfather was a public health agent in the days before (most) vaccines and before antibiotics. One of his jobs was to go to the houses of people with certain illnesses and post the big, official, QUARANTINE signs on their doors.

If you're not going to vaccinate, if that is the world you want, then you need to LIVE IN THAT WORLD. That world where those diseases are recognized as commonplace BUT potentially serious to certain people, and where sick children are kept home and treated as sick, to help their bodies recover.

Yes, yes, yes. Thank you.


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *savithny* 
Me too. Like I've said above, I think this attitude of taking all these things so lightly is something that has grown up since widespread vaccination and antibiotics. We all think diseases must be no big deal for everyone, MOSTLY because most of us have not had most of them, and assume that if we get them, complications are all easy to deal with using modern drugs.

I'm a big fan of modern medicine, but I'm not going to assume that the killers and maimers of the past are now "No biggie."

I think it's best and polite for people to stay home when they're sick. Guy keeps coming in to DHs office with high fevers, and keeps being sent home (where he is told he can work from home and still be paid, so he's not doing it bc of his employer). But I think you're confusing chicken pox with illnesses that were once quarrantined for. CP is not one of them.

Dozens of first-world countries, like the UK, don't routinely vaccinate against it because it's considered such a mild illness, and because they'd like people to have decent immunity instead of worthless vax immunity that has be boostered for the rest of your life. Many countries only vax immune-suppressed and adult health care workers.

Because chicken pox, is NOT, and has never been, "a killer." Yes, once in a very very great while, someone has died "of chicken pox." Same could be said of hangnails. People don't, and didn't, get quarrantined for CP. They don't even get quarrantined coming off of an airplane with it from the U.S. to Denmark. I saw that in 2004, clearly CP, the mother said that to the agent, no problem. They lived in Denmark, flew to the US, 2 days later girl came down with CP. They didn't "expose" her to it, it just circulates there. 3 days later, they flew home.

That said, it is polite not to expose others to CP unknowingly, just like for colds, flu, stomac h flu, etc. I would not personally have taken a CP kid on a plane. But it's not quarrantinable.


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## felix23 (Nov 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EviesMom* 
I'm going to presume that you're young enough not have had CP as a child (early 20s must be, I guess, since my 26 year old brother never had a CP vax and my mom was vax-happy), and live in the US.

Dozens of first-world countries, like the UK, don't routinely vaccinate against it because it's considered such a mild illness, and because they'd like people to have decent immunity instead of worthless vax immunity that has be boostered for the rest of your life. Many countries only vax immune-suppressed and adult health care workers.

Because chicken pox, is NOT, and has never been, "a killer." Yes, once in a very very great while, someone has died "of chicken pox." Same could be said of hangnails. People don't, and didn't, get quarrantined for CP. They don't even get quarrantined coming off of an airplane with it from the U.S. to Denmark. I saw that in 2004, clearly CP, the mother said that to the agent, no problem. They lived in Denmark, flew to the US, 2 days later girl came down with CP. They didn't "expose" her to it, it just circulates there. 3 days later, they flew home. I think you're confusing CP with m easles or something else if you're talking of quarrantines.

That said, it is polite not to expose others to CP unknowingly, just like for colds, flu, stomac h flu, etc. I would not personally have taken a CP kid on a plane. But it's not quarrantinable.

Hey MomtoS, where do you live? Because if neighbors think you shouldn't stress about taking her out, I'm thinking you're probably not in the US?

Well, I am old enough (and did) have CP. And when I had it, everyone just knew that when your kid had it, you stayed at home. There was no question in anyone's mind about taking them TOT or going to gymnastics, you just stayed at home. My mom had to stay at home for months when my older siblings and I had it.

ETA: Before the CP vaccine, on average 100 children died each year in the USA of chicken pox. That isn't a lot, but I'm sure it was devastating for the parent's of those children.


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## riverscout (Dec 22, 2006)

nevermind


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *felix23* 
Well, I am old enough (and did) have CP. And when I had it, everyone just knew that when your kid had it, you stayed at home. There was no question in anyone's mind about taking them TOT or going to gymnastics, you just stayed at home.

I had chickenpox, and ds1 has had chickenpox. Everyone did assume a kid with chickenpox would stay home (aside from pox parties) - because everyone assumed the kid would be _far_ too miserable to go out. I don't ever remember anyone worrying about it being contagious. It was just accepted that kids would get chickenpox at some point.

We have more knowledge about people being immune compromised now (largely because of the internet, I suspect), and that's definitely a valid factor. But, I never knew anybody who considered chickenpox something that required a quarantine.

Quote:

ETA: Before the CP vaccine, on average 100 children died each year in the USA of chicken pox. That isn't a lot, but I'm sure it was devastating for the parent's of those children.
What are the numbers now? Chickenpox wasn't on the "required" schedule in Canada when I had dd1. I don't think it was on the schedule when I had ds2, but it was added around that time. Since there are still _lots_ of kids in the standard age-range for chickenpox, I really doubt if we know how many deaths have potentially been avoided.


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *felix23* 
Well, I am old enough (and did) have CP. And when I had it, everyone just knew that when your kid had it, you stayed at home. There was no question in anyone's mind about taking them TOT or going to gymnastics, you just stayed at home. My mom had to stay at home for months when my older siblings and I had it.

ETA: Before the CP vaccine, on average 100 children died each year in the USA of chicken pox. That isn't a lot, but I'm sure it was devastating for the parent's of those children.

And how many do you think die of infections in minor playground wounds? Of basic colds and complications of them? I bet it's a lot lot higher. Regular flu kills far more children than that a year. CP is not a killer any more than any of the other illnesses I listed- cold, stomach flu, run-of-the-mill kid illnesses.

It's an illness, spreading it is not a sociable thing to do, and parents of children who die are devastated no matter what they died of. That's not what I said you're incorrect about. CP is not, and has never been, a quarrantinable illness, which is what I quibble with in your statements.


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## pacificbliss (Jun 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoS* 
We have been invited to trick or treat a few people houses that are okay with it. Or have chicken pox themselves.

Yay! I am so glad you found a solution. Have fun tonight!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EviesMom* 
It's an illness, spreading it is not a sociable thing to do, and parents of children who die are devastated no matter what they died of. That's not what I said you're incorrect about. CP is not, and has never been, a quarrantinable illness, which is what I quibble with in your statements.

I'm pretty sure that in the US CP was removed from the executive order of quarantinable illnesses be Reagan in the 80's. It was part of a revision the CDC requested to include some new haemorrhagic fevers.


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EviesMom* 
And how many do you think die of infections in minor playground wounds? Of basic colds and complications of them? I bet it's a lot lot higher. Regular flu kills far more children than that a year. CP is not a killer any more than any of the other illnesses I listed- cold, stomach flu, run-of-the-mill kid illnesses.

It's an illness, spreading it is not a sociable thing to do, and parents of children who die are devastated no matter what they died of. That's not what I said you're incorrect about. CP is not, and has never been, a quarrantinable illness, which is what I quibble with in your statements.

Actually, read upthread. Yes, CP has been a quarantinable illness. It was one of the quarantinable illnesses in Illinois, for a specific example. I posted a link to a google books record of 1915 public health laws.

I got CP in 1976, during the Bicentennial celebrations. My school planned a huge pageant, and I had a special outfit, and then I got CP. I was over it, every pox was scabbed over and most were off, and my mom had to get the doctor to convince the principal of my school to let me back in with three scabs still on my face so I could participate, because the policy was "smooth skin to return to school" and they were hardcore about it.


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## AbbieB (Mar 21, 2006)

I still can not for the life of me understand how anyone can possibly argue that it is OK to bring an infectious kid with chicken pox to school, trick-or-treating, or any other place.

It has nothing to due with how nasty of an illness it is. It has nothing to do with people's vax status. It does not even have anything to do with other people's immune system. It's just not a thoughtful, caring thing to do to the sick child and the rest of the community.

If your kid is sick, keep him/her home.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AbbieB* 
If your kid is sick, keep him/her home.











I ran a new mother's support group for many years in Atlanta. New mothers sometimes brought their sick babies to group because they were so desperate to see other moms. Near riots would ensue when the mom of the sick baby would say..."so and so is sick today so we won't share toys". Sigh... and I as the "leader/facilitator" would have to ask them to leave. Come back when baby is well. Please join us when both of you are well.


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *savithny* 
Actually, read upthread. Yes, CP has been a quarantinable illness. It was one of the quarantinable illnesses in Illinois, for a specific example. I posted a link to a google books record of 1915 public health laws.

Huh. I honestly didn't think there had ever been a quarantine for CP. I'm surprised.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *savithny* 
Actually, read upthread. Yes, CP has been a quarantinable illness. It was one of the quarantinable illnesses in Illinois, for a specific example. I posted a link to a google books record of 1915 public health laws.

I got CP in 1976, during the Bicentennial celebrations. My school planned a huge pageant, and I had a special outfit, and then I got CP. I was over it, every pox was scabbed over and most were off, and my mom had to get the doctor to convince the principal of my school to let me back in with three scabs still on my face so I could participate, because the policy was "smooth skin to return to school" and they were hardcore about it.

That is interesting. When it went around when I was in the 7-8th grade everyone else in my class and the most of the school had it as well and we all went back to school still very scabby. I remember it well because I got called athletes foot face by one of the boys who had just as many scabs as me









It just wasnt a big deal at all. I missed no school over it because mine developed during Christmas vacation. But the ones that did have it during regular school time only missed a few days to a week.

As for keeping a sibling home who was showing no symptoms no way could I do that with dd because of the very stricked attendance rules at the school 12 days is all they can miss unexcused or not or they fail. There is an appeals thing you can do but from what I have heard they usually refuse to back down.


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## IntrovertExtrovert (Mar 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *savithny* 
HEre's an interesting historical document:

http://books.google.com/books?id=0Og...age&q=&f=false

IT's a book of public health laws passed in the US by the states during 1915.

Flipping through it, I see state after state law requiring quarantine for measles, mumps, diptheria, chicken pox.

Check out page 188 and following. The state of Illinois required _immediate_ reporting to the local health authorities of all cases of chicken pox. Placards were then affixed to each outside entrance of the house, 10x15 inches, declaring that there was pox within. The affected child was confined to that building for 2 weeks, or until skin was smooth. All other children in the family were confined to that building for 2 weeks from date of last exposure.

Quarantine for whooping cough was EIGHT weeks from first "whoop." Other children who had not had whooping cough were excluded from school and supposed to be kept home for 2 weeks.

Measles patients were quarantined for 14 days from the beginning of the disease, and were excluded from school for 3 weeks from the onset of disease.

Totally OT, but maybe it wasn't the feminist movement that was responsible for WOHMs becoming more prevalent, but vaccines.  Can you imagine having to explain taking 8 weeks off of work for each case of whooping cough in your house?


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IntrovertExtrovert* 
Totally OT, but maybe it wasn't the feminist movement that was responsible for WOHMs becoming more prevalent, but vaccines.  Can you imagine having to explain taking 8 weeks off of work for each case of whooping cough in your house?

Actually, that is mentioned in most real historical research/theses that I have read as being *vitally* important for middle-to-upper class women to enter the workforce as a default.

A lot of people belive horribly oversimplified things about women's history in the US. The economic feminist movement was *never* about making WOHMs "more prevalent" (the US has always had a very strong population of women gainfully employed anyway, and the poor and women of color have almost always worked since colonial times pretty much.), but about trying to ensure our long history of extreme wage discrimination and some of the labor laws that were meant to try to keep women from being compensated adequately were changed.

But yeah, the advances of modern medicine and their mainstream application have been HUGELY influential in allowing mothers of young children to work in a wider variety of jobs than was previously open to them.


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## felix23 (Nov 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IntrovertExtrovert* 
Totally OT, but maybe it wasn't the feminist movement that was responsible for WOHMs becoming more prevalent, but vaccines.  Can you imagine having to explain taking 8 weeks off of work for each case of whooping cough in your house?

I could be wrong, but I think your still supposed to keep a child with whooping cough at home for that long unless you use antibiotics. When dd1 caught it we did use antibiotics and still had to stay at home for five days. My grandma was from a family of 16 children and she has talked about once there was pretty much an entire year where someone in her family was quarantined because of whooping cough.


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## mommy2maya (Jun 7, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *felix23* 
I could be wrong, but I think your still supposed to keep a child with whooping cough at home for that long unless you use antibiotics. When dd1 caught it we did use antibiotics and still had to stay at home for five days. My grandma was from a family of 16 children and she has talked about once there was pretty much an entire year where someone in her family was quarantined because of whooping cough.

you do realize that the financial ramifications of 5 days vs 56days is huge. So, yes, you do have to kid said child home for 5 days, but previously, it would have been 8 weeks. Huge huge difference,


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## felix23 (Nov 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy2maya* 
you do realize that the financial ramifications of 5 days vs 56days is huge. So, yes, you do have to kid said child home for 5 days, but previously, it would have been 8 weeks. Huge huge difference,

I never said it wasn't. I was just saying that if you aren't going to use antibiotics, you need to be willing to stay at home for a long time. And even with antibiotics you have to stay at home for five days. I found that most people didn't know that. I had people calling me up wanting to go places a couple of days after she had gone to the dr, because they thought that the second she was on medicine she would be okay.


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## momtoS (Apr 12, 2006)

Wow...I really appreciate everyone's input. It has, for the most part, been a really good thread to read.

I honestly didn't realize that so many people were so afraid of chicken pox and considered it deadly. I think of it as a childhood thing....like teething....or falling off a bike. No fear of it. I realize that a very very very small amount of children die from it. But children also die from falling off their bikes and hitting their head. etc. (true story...my uncle slipped and fell putting out his garbage...bumped his head. Bled in his brain and died 36 hours later....) I guess I don't see it as some do.....I definitely don't live in fear of CP.

We did Trick or Treat last night with people's advance approval. It was pouring rain and hailing so we drove. We went to the grandparents, my sister and two of my aunts houses. All great loot bags. Then went to our three neighbours houses (who both have children with chicken pox...but they were all out with friends ToT'ing) and got more loot bags. And as for the fear of passing it on while walking down the side walk.....the weather was so bad...there weren't any other people out when we went....(before 6pm).

We didn't go to gymnastics.

Not going to school on Monday. Or To our group on Tuesday night, on to our appointment on Wednesday, or swimming Wednesday night.

On Thursday we will have to re-evaluate for school.....

She has about 8 spots right now. No fever. No itching. I am kind of hoping her little sister gets it so we can get it over with.


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IntrovertExtrovert* 
Totally OT, but maybe it wasn't the feminist movement that was responsible for WOHMs becoming more prevalent, but vaccines.  Can you imagine having to explain taking 8 weeks off of work for each case of whooping cough in your house?

A lot of poor women always worked. But they did piecework from their homes, or they had neighbors or relations watching the kids. If your mom or MIL lived with you, you had a built in sitter. Also, if you had a kid every 2 years or so, by the time the oldest was 8 or 10, you had a built-in sitter. Or you lived in a tenement, or in a place with housing much closer together than it is in modern suburbs, and you just had someone keep an eye on the house for you.

And I'm guessing that a lot of women who worked outside the house left sick kids home alone, too. Of course, the data show that those kids were more likely to die of the sequelae of illness too, without supportive care like someone making them eat and drink.


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## momtoS (Apr 12, 2006)

Actually I did get alot out of this thread. Even though I see this illness just as a childhood illness and for most people nothing serious...I realize now that alot of people are really afraid of this illness, and that they view it as a *killer* or *deadly* something I didn't consider.

I didn't send my dd out trick or treating to *unknowing* people. I called in advance and made sure no one else would be there.

This thread has made me think of the day a nurse tried force the CP vaccine on me. She said that children die everyday from it and wouldn't I feel guilty if I killed my child. I thought she was being totally hysterical about the risks....but now realize for alot of people....that is how they feel.


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## sunanthem (Jan 29, 2004)

Not all of us feel chicken pox is deadly. I feel it is an inconvenience that not everyone is prepared or willing to deal with when it occurs. I also think what most, including myself were saying in a nice way was that it is rude to take a child sick with _anything_ out to large community functions where you can infect others.


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## momtoS (Apr 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunanthem* 
Not all of us feel chicken pox is deadly. I feel it is an inconvenience that not everyone is prepared or willing to deal with when it occurs. I also think what most, including myself were saying in a nice way was that it is rude to take a child sick with _anything_ out to large community functions where you can infect others.

Have you read through the thread? I didn't bring my daughter out into the community. I brought her to family members houses (in a car) and then to other houses that also have chicken pox and I called first.


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## primjillie (May 4, 2004)

My children all had cp when they were little, and I'm glad. But I would be ticked off if someone gave it them knowingly without letting me know. I was a sahm, so I could deal with it. But if I had to take a month off work (which is how long we stayed home with 3 kids getting it), it would have been devasting financially and career wise. I agree with the rest of the posters, if my kids are sick, they stay home - period. For their sake and everyone else's. I thought about this last night as I passed out candy. I hope none of them had cp or swine flu!


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## Liquesce (Nov 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoS* 
Actually I did get alot out of this thread. Even though I see this illness just as a childhood illness and for most people nothing serious...I realize now that alot of people are really afraid of this illness, and that they view it as a *killer* or *deadly* something I didn't consider.

I didn't send my dd out trick or treating to *unknowing* people. I called in advance and made sure no one else would be there.

This thread has made me think of the day a nurse tried force the CP vaccine on me. She said that children die everyday from it and wouldn't I feel guilty if I killed my child. I thought she was being totally hysterical about the risks....but now realize for alot of people....that is how they feel.

so...what haven't i learned from this thread that you would like meto have?

Um. When most people have talked about it being deadly, they have not been talking about healthy little Timmy down the street so much as potentially immuno-compromised neighbors, older neighbors, etc ... people for whom that CP can be devastating is absolutely not the irrational fear you appear to be painting it as. And I think that's where the impression that you didn't get very much out of this thread is coming from.

Also that there is a certain level of common courtesy to be observed when it comes to infectious diseases, which has not a lot to do with whether it is potentially deadly or not.


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## sunanthem (Jan 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoS* 
Have you read through the thread? I didn't bring my daughter out into the community. I brought her to family members houses (in a car) and then to other houses that also have chicken pox and I called first.

I've been reading it daily, and I am amazed it has had to get this long!
I am so glad that you came up with a solution since Toting was so important to you and your child. I'm hoping the next time your children are ill you will remember to keep them home.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoS* 
I honestly didn't realize that so many people were so afraid of chicken pox and considered it deadly. I think of it as a childhood thing....like teething....or falling off a bike. No fear of it. I realize that a very very very small amount of children die from it. But children also die from falling off their bikes and hitting their head. etc. (true story...my uncle slipped and fell putting out his garbage...bumped his head. Bled in his brain and died 36 hours later....) I guess I don't see it as some do.....I definitely don't live in fear of CP.

While you may not live in fear of chicken pox there are others that must because of other health conditions that makes the threat of chicken very real and very serious. The way I see it, while my child may have been disappointed because she missed trick or treating that does not give me the right to take my contagious child out into the public and expose people who could be severy impacted because of my choice. My daughter's right to candy does not trump the immunocompromised person's right to not be unknowingly exposed to the chicken pox. I don't see this as being any different than making sure that my daughter does not bring anything with peanut bitter to school where she is in a class with a child who suffers from a peanut allergy. While peanut butter might not be something my family views as something to fear in my home I understand that it is a fear for many others. Missing one halloween is something that will quickly be forgotten with time.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IntrovertExtrovert* 
Totally OT, but maybe it wasn't the feminist movement that was responsible for WOHMs becoming more prevalent, but vaccines.  Can you imagine having to explain taking 8 weeks off of work for each case of whooping cough in your house?


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tigerchild* 
Actually, that is mentioned in most real historical research/theses that I have read as being *vitally* important for middle-to-upper class women to enter the workforce as a default.

A lot of people belive horribly oversimplified things about women's history in the US. The economic feminist movement was *never* about making WOHMs "more prevalent" (the US has always had a very strong population of women gainfully employed anyway, and the poor and women of color have almost always worked since colonial times pretty much.), but about trying to ensure our long history of extreme wage discrimination and some of the labor laws that were meant to try to keep women from being compensated adequately were changed.

But yeah, the advances of modern medicine and their mainstream application have been HUGELY influential in allowing mothers of young children to work in a wider variety of jobs than was previously open to them.

From a feminist perspective, why would vaccines make a difference? There's no reason a father can't stay home to look after a sick child. It doesn't have to be the mother who misses/missed work. If vaccines made it that much more possible for women to work/keep their jobs, then it doesn't sound like feminism has made much difference at all. Vaccines shouldn't be a _mother's_ issue.


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## QueenOfTheMeadow (Mar 25, 2005)

I am re-opening this thread.

I'd like to remind everyone:

Quote:

Do not post in a disrespectful, defamatory, adversarial, baiting, harassing, offensive, insultingly sarcastic or otherwise improper manner, toward a member or other individual, including casting of suspicion upon a person, invasion of privacy, humiliation, demeaning criticism, name-calling, personal attack or in any way which violates the law.

Do not post or start a thread to discuss member behavior or statements of members made in other threads or to criticize another discussion on the boards. Do not post to a thread to take direct issue with a member. If you feel a member has posted or behaved inappropriately in a discussion, communicate directly with the member, moderator or administrator privately and refrain from potentially defaming discussion in a thread.
Further posting in this manner with result in the thread being closed and the poster alerted. Thanks for your cooperation. Back to the pox!


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## momtoS (Apr 12, 2006)

Thank you for re-opening this thread. Although it has been a heated discussion I think that posters from both sides have brought up good points and have helped me make a decision for Trick or Treating. I did post question though that were not well answered....let's continue the discussion....


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunanthem* 
Not all of us feel chicken pox is deadly. I feel it is an inconvenience that not everyone is prepared or willing to deal with when it occurs. I also think what most, including myself were saying in a nice way was that it is rude to take a child sick with _anything_ out to large community functions where you can infect others.

Exactly. Chicken Pox is not "deadly" to the vast majority of people who get it. HOWEVER it is NOT "no big deal," to many, many people. THe point was not that you were going to wander the neighborhood killing old ladies, the point is that it is really rude to knowingly expose people to a very infectious communicable disease that has potentially serious effects on pregnant women, fetuses, small babies, and old people.

And for me, the point is that if you don't believe in vaccinating your children, if you are advocating, through that act, a return to the way things were before widespread vaccinations, then you should behave the way people used to when those diseases were widespread in the population by being aware that while widespread, they are still serious, and you should take care of sick children by giving them lots of rest at home, and you should be courteous to the general population.


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## momtoS (Apr 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *savithny* 
the point is that it is really rude to knowingly expose people to a very infectious communicable disease that has potentially serious effects on pregnant women, fetuses, small babies, and old people.

And for me, the point is that if you don't believe in vaccinating your children, if you are advocating, through that act, a return to the way things were before widespread vaccinations, then you should behave the way people used to when those diseases were widespread in the population by being aware that while widespread, they are still serious, and you should take care of sick children by giving them lots of rest at home, and you should be courteous to the general population.

I did call everyone ahead of time. Everyone was more than okay with us coming over and we also got loot bags from neighbours who's children also had chicken pox (although they all went out with friends like usual). We did not go around to potentially spread it.

I guess....I don't understand how I was not courteous to the general population? I had NO contact with unknowing people, I had no contact with people that didn't consent to us coming over. We didn't walk past people on the sidewalk, etc.

Can you please clarify if you still think I should have stayed in my own house last night?


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## Boot (Jan 22, 2008)

I haven't read the whole thread so maybe I'm missing something but I don't understand why people are jumping on the OP for exposing people to cp without their knowledge. As far as I can make out she did not do this. Why are people attacking her for being "really rude"? It sounds like she couldn't have done more to protect others while still allowing her (presumably sprightly) child to have a taste of the Halloween experience. I don't get the antagonism.


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## cattmom (Apr 6, 2009)

Boot, whether the OP was going to take her sick child around the general neighborhood was an open question (even for her, I assume) until her post on the sixth page of this thread. Some time after that, she indicated that she decided on selective trick or treating among informed volunteers only because this thread convinced her that many people have unfounded fears about the danger of chicken pox. I think the posts since then have been from people trying to tell her that her ongoing beliefs about the rules of polite society and the reality of the disease (rather than her actual actions Halloween night) are wrong. Despite the neighbors with chicken pox who went trick or treating as usual.


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoS* 
I honestly didn't realize that so many people were so afraid of chicken pox and considered it deadly. I think of it as a childhood thing....like teething....or falling off a bike. No fear of it. I realize that a very very very small amount of children die from it. But children also die from falling off their bikes and hitting their head. etc. (true story...my uncle slipped and fell putting out his garbage...bumped his head. Bled in his brain and died 36 hours later....) I guess I don't see it as some do.....I definitely don't live in fear of CP.



Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunanthem* 
Not all of us feel chicken pox is deadly. I feel it is an inconvenience that not everyone is prepared or willing to deal with when it occurs. I also think what most, including myself were saying in a nice way was that it is rude to take a child sick with _anything_ out to large community functions where you can infect others.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *savithny* 
Exactly. Chicken Pox is not "deadly" to the vast majority of people who get it. HOWEVER it is NOT "no big deal," to many, many people.

I haven't read every post in detail, so I'm not sure if anyone has discussed what happens to some children who get chicken pox, yet don't die from it. I know a child who had a severe case - the pox appeared inside her mouth and throat, and I believe down her esophagus. Even after she recovered, she had severe digestive problems. She required special diets for a long time after. It affected her growth and development because of the severe impact on her nutritional intake.

Chicken pox can be a very serious disease, even when it is not deadly. Please do not treat it as if it is a minor cold or tummy upset.


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## Dov'sMom (Jan 24, 2007)

You know, I would never have thought about taking a CP kid to a party or a park, but not out on the streets at all? I stayed home with my 18 month old nephew when he had CP and felt totally fine. He lived in a tiny apartment nad we spent a lot of time running up and down the street with nary a thought. Obviously, he didn't go to school, we wouldn't go into a store, and we weren't out when the kids were all coming home, but staying in the apartment for 1.5 weeks would have been pure torture for that kid. I guess I figured that whatever virus he was spewing out into the environment would have dissipated quickly. Am I totally wrong? Does anyone know how long CP lives outside the body?


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoS* 
I did call everyone ahead of time. Everyone was more than okay with us coming over and we also got loot bags from neighbours who's children also had chicken pox (although they all went out with friends like usual). We did not go around to potentially spread it.

I guess....I don't understand how I was not courteous to the general population? I had NO contact with unknowing people, I had no contact with people that didn't consent to us coming over. We didn't walk past people on the sidewalk, etc.

Can you please clarify if you still think I should have stayed in my own house last night?

we understand that you did that. I've got no problem with going out to see people who either want their child to be exposed *with their knowledge* or who know they've already had the pox - assuming the child feels well enough, and many do.

The reason some of us keep harping on "don't take your sick child door to door!" Is that until a bunch of people said "Oh, no, don't take her trick or treating!" you were really thinking of doing it, and a few other people were also saying "oh, no biggie, I bet they'd be glad to get natural pox!"

And the response to those of us saying "Don't," had a definite overtone of calling the naysayers overprotective, because "CP is a simple childhood disease, and is no big deal, so you shouldn't worry about exposing people." There have been a number of posts that express astonishment or amazement that anyone would think to keep a sick and contagious child away from others.

So I, personally, think that your compromise was a great idea. You warned people about possible exposure and stuck to visiting people who were okay with that for various reasons, but you did not take your child out door to door or into crowded, anonymous places. You were courteous to the general population, but I think people are continuing to post about courtesy because you, and a few others, keep coming back to the theme of "Well, I really don't see why it is a big deal."


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