# Rear facing Canadian car seat laws - help please!



## lemurmommies (Jan 15, 2007)

I was looking through the manual of my Britax Marathon just yesterday, trying to find some information about how close to the top of the car seat my sons head could be before I HAD to turn him FF.

And on page 4 of the User Manual, it says that the seat can only be used RF until 32 inches!!!!!!







:

Can anyone shed some light on this? DS has grown almost 10 inches in the past 8 months, and is nearing 31 inches. I am worried that he'll hit 32 inches right at or even before his first birthday, and then what will I do? Will I really have to turn him FF? We have just moved the straps to the second slots, and his head is still miles from the top of his seat. But I don't want to break the law if it will void my insurance!

(FWIW, I know that the Radian has a taller back, but my understanding is that there is a law in Canada that states that 32 inches is the maximum RF height on all car seats. I think. AND, it doesn't fit RF in our car. We've tried.)


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## Sheal (Apr 19, 2007)

Source

Quote:

Infants weighing under 9 kg (20 lb.) are to travel properly secured in a rearward-facing child safety seat that meets the Canadian Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (CMVSS)

Quote:

Everyone including parents, grandparents, relatives or friends, who drives with a child under the age of 8 who weighs less than 36 kg (80 lb.) and stands less than 145 cm (4 ft. 9 in.) tall is required to ensure the child is properly secured in the appropriate child safety seat or booster seat based on his/her height and weight.

Quote:

A child can start using a seatbelt alone once any one of the following criteria is met:

* Child turns eight years old
* Child weighs 36 kg (80 lbs.)
* Child is 145 cm (57 ins. or 4 ft. 9 ins.) tall

As a guide, a seat belt may only be used if a child is able to sit with legs bent comfortably over the vehicle seat and with his or her back fully against the back of the vehicle seat. The shoulder belt must lie flat across the child's shoulder and chest, and should not cross over the child's neck. The lap portion of the belt should be positioned low over the hips, not the abdomen.
It's 110 dollar fine with a child without a car seat and demerit points on the driver's license.

Also, unfortunately (apparently, and I've written the MTO about this and Trans Ministry to express my distaste for this) Britax car seats with 5 point harness are illegal in Canada!!! I've heard horror stories that a woman was fined 5 grand for having one! (I doubt the veracity of the horror story but it's possible).


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## emmasmommy (Feb 26, 2004)

Are you sure that ALL Britax seats are illegal in Canada? I have a Marathon that was BOUGHT in Canada at a reputable store and has all the appropriate Transport Canada stickers on it. I have a hard time believing that can be illegal. If I bought it in the US I could see the problem.

Sorry to hijack the thread.

We had dd rearfacing to about 19 months, and I'm sure she was more than 32", but I've never heard of that being a law either.


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## lemurmommies (Jan 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sheal* 
Also, unfortunately (apparently, and I've written the MTO about this and Trans Ministry to express my distaste for this) Britax car seats with 5 point harness are illegal in Canada!!! I've heard horror stories that a woman was fined 5 grand for having one! (I doubt the veracity of the horror story but it's possible).

Well, that is definitely misinformation, because both the Britax Marathon and Roundabout are 5-point harnessed seats that are sold in Canada. We bought ours right here in the GTA. There are different rules that govern these seats in Canada than there are in the USA however, which is in part where my confusion comes from.

*emmasmommy* - Yeah, in terms of weight I imagine that DS could rearface for a long while still (he's 22 pounds), and like I said in my original post, his head is still quite far down from the top of the seat. But if this 32 inch rule is the law... ugh, I shudder just thinking about it.


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## amityfree (Jul 23, 2005)

I have never heard anything about a rear facing height law in Canada. As far as I know, we have laws governing carseat usage, ie. you MUST be in a five point harness carseat of some sort until 40 lbs. I also saw a sight that pegged the weight restriction at 34 lbs, but nothing about height.

If you want to call Transport Canada to verify, here is the number I found for them: 1 800 333-0371

Oh, edited to add about the Britax: Britaxes are absolutely legal to use here, if they were bought here. I imagine the woman who received a fine bought a Britax on the internet from a US supplier. It is illegal to use ANY carseat here from any other country but Canada.


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## Sheal (Apr 19, 2007)

Quote:

Apparently, the push is that kids up to about age 5 should still be restrained using a 5-point harness but most forward facing seats max out at 48 lbs in Canada. There are two seats that go past that weight limit and have the 5-point harness, only one of which is legal in Canada. The 2 are the Britax Regent and the Sunshine Radian (legal in Canada). However, if it's a seat-belt failure issue, nothing makes anyone safe.
On Canadian Parents forum, one CRST (CRST stands for Child Restraint Safety Technician - the official name/status but more commonly known as carseat technician. In the US, it's CPST (Child Passenger Safety Tech). ) has posted lots of information about different seats and options. I've cut and pasted a bunch of her responses to peoples inquiries which might not read too clearly but if you want to follow the full thread, off you go.
source of quote

Carseats that are legal here

I guess the regent is the only legal britax 5 point harness seat allowed in Canada, but the marathon and other forms of 5 point harness britax seats are not legal.


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## lemurmommies (Jan 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amityfree* 
I have never heard anything about a rear facing height law in Canada. As far as I know, we have laws governing carseat usage, ie. you MUST be in a five point harness carseat of some sort until 40 lbs. I also saw a sight that pegged the weight restriction at 34 lbs, but nothing about height.

I'm not sure that it IS a law, per se, it just seems that all of the convertible car seats with the exception of Evenflo products have a RF height limit of 32 inches. Even if the same product in the USA has a height limit indicated of the top of the head being even to the top of the car seat shell, or 1 inch below the car seat shell.

Any car seat techs want to weigh in? I really, really, really don't want to have to turn him around due to height. He's just a baby!


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## Sheal (Apr 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lemurmommies* 
I'm not sure that it IS a law, per se, it just seems that all of the convertible car seats with the exception of Evenflo products have a RF height limit of 32 inches. Even if the same product in the USA has a height limit indicated of the top of the head being even to the top of the car seat shell, or 1 inch below the car seat shell.

Any car seat techs want to weigh in? I really, really, really don't want to have to turn him around due to height. He's just a baby!

The census for rear facing both on a pro level and a parent level is: Leave them rear facing for as long as you possibly can (meaning, their little feet don't hang over the edge of the carseat and get mashed against the seat, get a tot seat that rear faces instead of forward facing...)


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## lemurmommies (Jan 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sheal* 
The census for rear facing both on a pro level and a parent level is: Leave them rear facing for as long as you possibly can (meaning, their little feet don't hang over the edge of the carseat and get mashed against the seat, get a tot seat that rear faces instead of forward facing...)

Sheal, I'm not sure I understand your post. He IS in a "tot" (convertible) car seat already. He had outgrown his infant seat by height at 4.5 months. Which is why I am every so slightly freaking out.


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## emmasmommy (Feb 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sheal* 
source of quote

Carseats that are legal here

I guess the regent is the only legal britax 5 point harness seat allowed in Canada, but the marathon and other forms of 5 point harness britax seats are not legal.

This does not make sense. Why sell as seat that is not legal. My Marathon that I bought IN Canada, is only rated to 48bs (and not 65lbs like the US), and has the correct/legal Transport Canada markings. It is not an illegal seat!


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## triscuitsmom (Jan 11, 2007)

He's fine... the techs at car-seat.org answer this regularily and it seems that they have to put _something_ so 32" became it. The actual law/official rule is with an inch of the top of the shell which he'll be nowhere near when he hits the weight rearfacing.

As for weight limits... if it has a TC sticker, it's legal.

AAAAAND... all of the new Radians and Marathons will go to 65lbs in Canada as well. New thing passed this spring (but they are slowly being release in stores now)


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## lemurmommies (Jan 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *triscuitsmom* 
He's fine... the techs at car-seat.org answer this regularily and it seems that they have to put _something_ so 32" became it. The actual law/official rule is with an inch of the top of the shell which he'll be nowhere near when he hits the weight rearfacing.









Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!

That's what I was hoping I'd hear. He's so tall that I was just about having an apoplectic fit. Especially since I had JUST been talking to DP about how much more room he had to RF in the Marathon and wasn't it worth the extra money.


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## lemurmommies (Jan 15, 2007)

And yes, we plan on getting DS either a higher weight Marathon or a Radian when he outgrows the current Marathon RF or when a younger sibling needs his seat.


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## Brilliantmama (Sep 28, 2006)

What the techs usually say is that height is a _guideline_, not set in stone like weight. Kids can be very short-torsoed, but long legged, and still fit fine rear-facing even if total height is over 32in. (Also, kids can be opposite and have LONG torsos, and outgrow rear-facing seats before the "official" height limit.

(FWIW my 3 yr old is at least 34in, but short-torsoed and only 24lbs, so she is rear-facing still. She has well over 2in of carseat shell above her head.)


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## angie3096 (Apr 4, 2007)

Sheal;8950027I guess the regent is the only legal britax 5 point harness seat allowed in Canada said:


> I followed your link but I don't see it stated there that the Regent is legal in Canada but other Britax seats are not. In fact what Canadian techs have told me is the opposite; the Marathon and Roundabout are sold in Canada (and thus are legal to use in Canada) but the Regent is not.
> 
> To the OP: The only thing I know about rearfacing laws in Canada is there is a 30 lb limit (so sorry, by the way. What a silly law to make when there are seats down south here that go to 35 lbs).
> I've never heard of a Canadian rearfacing HEIGHT law. A seat is outgrown by height rearfacing when there is less than one inch of shell above the child's head (Britax says with their seats you can go until the shell is even with the child's head but as a parent I wouldn't want to push it--luckily my daughter outgrew her MA rf by weight before height!) But I'm certainly no Canadian law expert.


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

Height isn't the same issue as weight. What you need to look at is where his ears are. We had the same problem with my oldest dd & she was not tall by any means so I'm sure many kids her age outgrew the height first. I called the carseat manufacturer & what they said was that as long as the middle of their ears are not at the top of the seat they're fine even if they're more than 32". If the middle of their ears are above that in a crash their neck will hit the top of the seat. If their ears are below & they're at the height max just bend their legs if necessary(it usually isn't on a convertable, but is in an infant)

The regulations differ province by province too on when they can be out of boosters/5 point harnesses.


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## AlbertaJes (May 11, 2006)

My Radian says it's only to be used RF to 32" as well.


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

The Regent is not legal in Canada.

The Marathon and the Roundabout are perfectly legal in Canada and sell quite well there.


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## triscuitsmom (Jan 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AlbertaJes* 
My Radian says it's only to be used RF to 32" as well.

Yep, all convertibles here say that... like I said, it's an arbitrary number. The law is within an inch of the top of the seat (which is great news for rear facing safety!!!)


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## Erin+babyAndrew (Jan 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *triscuitsmom* 
Yep, all convertibles here say that... like I said, it's an arbitrary number. The law is within an inch of the top of the seat (which is great news for rear facing safety!!!)









actually, my canadian marathon made jan 2005 says I can use it rfing to 33 lbs and 37". which I fully intend to do. my 18 mo ds is already 33" and 27lbs.


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## Throkmorton (Jun 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Erin+babyAndrew* 
actually, my canadian marathon made jan 2005 says I can use it rfing to 33 lbs and 37". which I fully intend to do. my 18 mo ds is already 33" and 27lbs.

Oooh, you have a coveted Jan 2005 model! I have a Jan 2005 Touriva, made right before they dropped all RF limits to 30lbs and 32". Apparently Evenflo and graco were complainign that the various weight limits weren't fair.








The 32" is completely arbitrary. I was taught in CRST class that the height was a guideline, but weight is set in stone. I actually find the guideline to be really funny because Dorel seats in the US have a *minimum* 34" FF height guideline, whereas the exact same seat in Canada has a *maximum* RF height of 32"

And yes, like others have stated, there are Canadian versions of the marathon and Roundabout, but the Regent is not approved for use up here.


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## triscuitsmom (Jan 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Erin+babyAndrew* 
actually, my canadian marathon made jan 2005 says I can use it rfing to 33 lbs and 37". which I fully intend to do. my 18 mo ds is already 33" and 27lbs.

Awesome!!! I'm really happy to hear that because I think that having a height # (while I do understand that they have to put something) is really damaging. The rule/law is always within an inch of the top (well I think there may be a seat or a few seats that say you can go higher, but that is the conservative blanket rule).


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## lemurmommies (Jan 15, 2007)

Thanks everyone for the great responses. We moved DS's straps to the second slots today. And sitting in his seat, his head about 3.5-4 inches before his head hits the top of the shell, so 2.5-3 inches of torso growth before we have to turn him. Unless he hits 30 pounds before then, which is always a possibility!


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## Erin+babyAndrew (Jan 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Throkmorton* 
Oooh, you have a coveted Jan 2005 model! I have a Jan 2005 Touriva, made right before they dropped all RF limits to 30lbs and 32". Apparently Evenflo and graco were complainign that the various weight limits weren't fair.










It's cowmooflage too







: we're never parting with this amazing seat. ds2 can ride in it until it expires when he will be almost 5 years old.


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## JERENAUD (May 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Throkmorton* 
Oooh, you have a coveted Jan 2005 model! I have a Jan 2005 Touriva, made right before they dropped all RF limits to 30lbs and 32". Apparently Evenflo and graco were complainign that the various weight limits weren't fair.








The 32" is completely arbitrary. I was taught in CRST class that the height was a guideline, but weight is set in stone. I actually find the guideline to be really funny because Dorel seats in the US have a *minimum* 34" FF height guideline, whereas the exact same seat in Canada has a *maximum* RF height of 32"

And yes, like others have stated, there are Canadian versions of the marathon and Roundabout, but the Regent is not approved for use up here.

I'm glad that the dates came up, because I was very confused while reading this thread. We have a Cosco Touriva, made in 2003, with rear facing limits of 35 pounds and 36 inches (or the other way around, either way isn't an issue in the near future). Every time I look at new carseats (just because I like carseats) I don't replace it because all the limits are so much lower than on this one. Now I know why!

Erica


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