# article claims plastibell= no cutting or pain



## carriebft (Mar 10, 2007)

http://www.theage.com.au/news/nation...899169224.html

Quote:

THREE-week old baby Kai goes in to see Dr Terry Russell, and about 15 minutes later he is back with his mother. In a few days his foreskin will drop off.

"He was fine afterwards and came out and fed straight away and then fell asleep," Kai's mum Rebecca Barwick says.

Kai has been circumcised but with no needles, no scalpel, just some anaesthetic cream and a small plastic ring device with a string that pulls tight on the foreskin causing it to lose circulation and later drop off.

The procedure, according to Dr Russell, is "totally painless".


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## TigerTail (Dec 22, 2002)

fffft.

where's that aussie message board, bub something? wonder what they've got to say.

what's up with our other english-speaking cousins lately? please don't keep stealing our stupid!


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## kxsiven (Nov 2, 2004)

Everyone, give feed back!

Isn't this Australian? Quite surprised they fall on that trap.


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## carriebft (Mar 10, 2007)

There is also another article out from Australia claiming circ is making a comeback there:

http://www.theage.com.au/news/nation...899169215.html


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## pdx.mothernurture (May 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TigerTail* 
fffft.

where's that aussie message board, bub something? wonder what they've got to say.

what's up with our other english-speaking cousins lately? please don't keep stealing our stupid!

I PMed you a link. 

BTW, Russell is the doctor that was diciplined and fined for preying on parents soliciting unnecessary tongue-tie surgeries to his circumcision clients to make an extra buck...

Jen


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## rik8144 (Apr 3, 2007)

Actually, I have seen a plasti-bell applied (I am a NICU nurse) and there is cutting involved! The still use the blunt separation technique to remove the skin from the glans....then they apply the clamp and place the bell at the desired postion.....then the remove the excess skin above the plasti-bell with the scalpel. Yes, the bell stays on for days and the look is much "cleaner" than with the gompco or mogen but there is still cutting involved.


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## bdavis337 (Jan 7, 2005)

My 2nd son was circumcised this way. It DID hurt him, it WAS painful and I would never, ever say otherwise. I will say that it APPEARED TO BE less traumatic to his penis and to him overall than the circ that my oldest son had. His was awful. It was bloody, raw and took weeks to heal.







He cried at every diaper change for at least a week, no matter how gentle we were.


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## Papai (Apr 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *carriebft* 
There is also another article out from Australia claiming circ is making a comeback there:

http://www.theage.com.au/news/nation...899169215.html

Oh my god. The doctor in this article is talking about circ preventing HPV and Prostate cancer? They keep coming up with things that circ can prevent!







:


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## trmpetplaya (May 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Papai* 
Oh my god. The doctor in this article is talking about circ preventing HPV and Prostate cancer? They keep coming up with things that circ can prevent!







:

Well... my friend got HPV from a circumcised man and my circumcised FIL has had prostate cancer TWICE. So... a fat lot of good being circumcised did those two at least







:

love and peace.


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## MaryJaneLouise (Jul 26, 2005)

Kind of like having a torniquet around your toe... except it's your genitals. Yeah, that sounds painless







:


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## mamamillet (May 21, 2004)

So very ot but...
how do you rename links?
I would like to put a link in my sig on another board but I don't want it to be the address of the site
help please!


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## Microsoap (Dec 29, 2005)

Who says cutting and suffocating the clamped off foreskin isn't AS painful, or MORE painful? Baby boys can't speak for themselves. Has anyone ever had an adult Plastibell circ (if they even made such a device, which I know they don't) to state this is being true? It could be an unbearable throbbing while the plastic clamp does its thing.


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## TigerTail (Dec 22, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MaryJaneLouise* 
Kind of like having a torniquet around your toe... except it's your genitals. Yeah, that sounds painless







:

And, of course, the scraping- doesn't a sharp tool cutting under your clitoral hood sound charming?


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## serendipity22 (Sep 19, 2006)

Quote:

Oh my god. The doctor in this article is talking about circ preventing HPV and Prostate cancer?
The countries with the most prostate cancer are the USA, Canada and Australia:
countries with good longevity and most elderly men (right age of prostate cancer) are circed.

Now while this doesn't mean circ leads to prostate cancer, it seems that it has a preventative effect is unlikely.

Prostate cancer is so common in Australia (15% of all male deaths I think), even if only in 1% of these cases circ contributed, it would be quite significant.


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## kxsiven (Nov 2, 2004)

Oh did you know that ripping of the clitoral hood prevents ovarian cancer.








:

People just blindly believe anything just because it's printed on the newspaper.


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## pdx.mothernurture (May 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *carriebft* 
There is also another article out from Australia claiming circ is making a comeback there:

http://www.theage.com.au/news/nation...899169215.html


Quote:

On the morning The Sunday Age spoke to Dr Russell, he had already performed five circumcisions by 10am.

He says the majority of parents choose the procedure for health reasons.

"I think a lot of people are deterred by the pain aspect and the risk aspect of the way it used to be done and now that they're seeing reasons for doing it and less risk and no pain, I think they're all flocking back to having it done."
uke

Jen


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## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

Yeah, plastibell = licking off by kittens.

Lying sack of







doctor.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Oh yeah, it's magic. Bet you could take a fingernail off "magically" that way, too.


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## Daisyuk (May 15, 2005)

Oh, it's the Australian Schoen, Short is another circumnutter who wants to get his hands on every penis he can and denude it. He just LOVES plastibells - he was photographed with a load of them.

Terry Russell is just as bad, another sicko in the Halperin, Bailey, etc. mode, just loves to get the foreskins falling. Everywhere he goes, the rate goes up.

I'm surprised that other circumcision paedo Brian Morris didn't get into that article (he's the one that goes on holiday to watch adolescent boys get circumcised in Africa) as well.

Australia had better watch out, there are some determined perverts-with-power there who are trying to reintroduce it.


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## TigerTail (Dec 22, 2002)

do you think some reputable physicians are afraid to take a stance against circumcision, for fear of repercussions from people in traditionally circing faiths in the ama hierarchy? (this is not discussing anything but what their _perception_ might be, not whether there actually would be, relax.)


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## Daisyuk (May 15, 2005)

I think, like the States, that it's partially money based. It costs a lot for 15 mins work, and Dr Russell keeps on opening clinics to do it. I have a feeling that he's been personally responsible for the rate rise in Queensland - I read somewhere that he'd got onto the local health board, and it took a year for the local intactivists to get him off of it - but in the meantime the rate rose to nearly 20%. Last time I looked, it was dropping back down again. No idea where I saw that though, and I didn't keep the link, which is a bit unfortunate.

I'm sure Prof. Short must have shares in Hollister or something, he pushes plastibells so much, he always seems to be advocating the plastibell in almost every article I've ever read, and he's been photographed with them too. He was even over here lecturing in Manchester about his work on HIV prevention - which also apparently included circumcision. Maybe he gets his funding from Hollister or a subsidiary or something, I don't know. (When I've got time, I'll try and find out - lots of weird things get explained if you follow the money trail).

They're also lying. Using the plastibell _always_ involves pain and cutting. Why are they telling lies for something that is so obvious and and easy to prove?


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## glongley (Jun 30, 2004)

Anybody here from Australia that would be willing to write a letter to the editor of The Age debunking this misinformation? These are outright lies, and deserved to be soundly discredited. I wouldn't think they'd print or take anything as seriously from people writing from outside of Australia, as from Australian residents.

http://www.theage.com.au/contacts/index.html

Gillian


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## Dave2GA (Jul 31, 2005)

TigerTail is right on the money.


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## serendipity22 (Sep 19, 2006)

Quote:

Oh, it's the Australian Schoen,
Yes, and not only that he keeps in contact with Schoen and quotes from him.

Quote:

Short is another circumnutter who wants to get his hands on every penis he can and denude it.
Not quite right, Short like Morris is not a practicing medical doctor, he just pushes circ.

The latest inference about Russell he is doing at least one botched job a week, though I would have to get some more official information.


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## joandsarah77 (Jul 5, 2005)

I'm from Australia....I am no good at letters though. I will copy one if somebody can write it.


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## Lula's Mom (Oct 29, 2003)

They need to be handed link to the Stanford Plastibell teaching video, which is fresh in my mind since I just re-watched it yesterday. There absolutely IS cutting. With sharp, shiny scissors.

In fact, the doctor cuts along the crush line, then tries to pop the glans out, but finds he hasn't cut far enough to do that. So he has to pick the scissors up and cut that baby some more.

The procedure is the same for every circumcision up to a point- the doctor has to insert a blunt instrument under the foreskin and sweep it around (in this video, it seems like an interminably long process). And then he has to cut into the foreskin in order to peel it back away from the glans. How else would he get it uncovered?

They need their little bubble of "no cutting!" happiness burst, in a big way.







:


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## SarahLi (Jan 11, 2007)

Questions...
1- I'm guessing this is not the plastibell method but some new fangled method. I've never seen a string used with the plastibell method. If he is claiming there is no cutting, it must be a different method.

2- If it was so PAINLESS, why would they need an anesthetic cream (which only numbs the surface by the way)?

3- How can she claim it was painless unless she had seen the procedure? Even then, I've helped Dr.s with circs in the past, and the Dr. will say the baby feels no pain after the anesthetic... But the baby will quiet down and then start screaming again as soon as they clamp or cut.









The article title is grossly biased. No pain but plenty to gain? HAH. Try lots of pain and lots to lose. That's what I think this article should be titled.


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## Lula's Mom (Oct 29, 2003)

Sarah,
the Plastibell definitely uses a string. It's what cuts off the circulation and causes the skin to die and fall off. Here's a site with pictures of the device and procedure: http://www.circumcisionquotes.com/description.html I don't know why your doctor's method does not involve a string.







:

You can also watch the video I linked to above- it shows the whole procedure, string and all. And it also shows the doctor cutting the foreskin away with his scissors after the ring and string are on. I had forgotten how he "trims it up".

So I wrote a letter to them. I figure they report on news from around the world, and on the 'net they know they've got readers from all over. My voice is just as important as the voice of an Australian reader!

Quote:

I was horrified to read your recent article, "No pain, but plenty to gain". I know what is *lost* to circumcision (what amounts to 15 square inches of highly innervated, erogenous tissue in an adult man!) But I've never seen undisputed scientific proof of any benefit.

I'd advise your author to watch the teaching video from Stanford University to see how a Plastibell circumcision is performed, before claiming that there is "no cutting" involved. http://newborns.stanford.edu/Plastibell.html

There may not be a scalpel involved, but a blunt instrument is used to separate the foreskin from the head of the penis, and then the foreskin is cut through with scissors. This allows the doctor to peel back the foreskin and expose the red, bleeding glans, onto which he will place the Plastibell cap.

Visit this website to see pictures of the Plastibell and other instruments used in circumcision: http://noharmm.org/instruments.htm

It sounds so nice and benign to say that the Plastibell's plastic ring causes the foreskin to just "drop off". How does it sound if we describe it as cutting off the blood supply to the foreskin, so that the once-vital and functional tissue necrotizes? Over the course of a week, the skin of this perfect newborn baby dies, turns black, and falls off. It is worthy of mention that this method is associated with a higher incidence of complications than other methods. I do not believe for one minute that it's a painless procedure. It is only that its victims do not have the words to express their agony.


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## Yulia_R (Jan 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lula's Mom* 
Sarah,
the Plastibell definitely uses a string. It's what cuts off the circulation and causes the skin to die and fall off. Here's a site with pictures of the device and procedure: http://www.circumcisionquotes.com/description.html I don't know why your doctor's method does not involve a string.







:

You can also watch the video I linked to above- it shows the whole procedure, string and all. And it also shows the doctor cutting the foreskin away with his scissors after the ring and string are on. I had forgotten how he "trims it up".

So I wrote a letter to them. I figure they report on news from around the world, and on the 'net they know they've got readers from all over. My voice is just as important as the voice of an Australian reader!

Great job









I wish you have also included the Foreskins protect against HIV evidence/new study. BTW, this link of yours didn't work for me







. If you could please give me the link with the info, I'd really appreciate that (I'm so sick an dtired of people claming circ prevents HIV, I would find this link very handy.
thanks,
yulia.


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## Lula's Mom (Oct 29, 2003)

There were so many things I wanted to include, but I knew their eyes would start to glaze over if it got too long! Since they didn't say anything about HIV, I didn't specifically address it either.

Ohhh, I just realized you were talking about my sig link. Thank you for telling me!! I'll go check it out.


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## Lula's Mom (Oct 29, 2003)

The site I had linked to in my signature is no longer there. Neither is another site with the same info that I had bookmarked. I am easily swayed by conspiracy theory, so I think _They_ are going around shutting up the scientists who discovered this!







But CIRP still has it up, and I've linked to their article. Does it work for you now?


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## Daisyuk (May 15, 2005)

There's also this one:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...030500357.html

And the Journal of Cell Biology:
http://www.jcb.org/cgi/content/full/177/1/5a

And I VERY much like this one:

*The authors conclude that "Langerin is a natural barrier to HIV-1 infection, and strategies to combat infection must enhance, preserve or, at the very least, not interfere with Langerin expression and function."

Nat Med 2007.*
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/553129
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=17334373


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## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Daisyuk*
There's also this one:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...030500357.html

How interesting -- and scary -- that the entire article fails to mention ONCE where Langerhans cells are found. You'd never know that circumcision removes them from reading this article unless you knew (and I bet dollars to doughnuts that most Americans wouldn't) that the foreskin contains mucousal tissues.


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## Nathan1097 (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Quirky* 







Yeah, plastibell = licking off by kittens.


ROFLMAO....










Write me a PM. I want to quote you "for real".


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## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nathan1097* 
ROFLMAO....










Write me a PM. I want to quote you "for real".

Oh, I can't take credit for the "licking off by kittens" phrase! That was someone else's and I borrowed it shamelessly.







:


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## Nathan1097 (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Quirky* 
Oh, I can't take credit for the "licking off by kittens" phrase! That was someone else's and I borrowed it shamelessly.







:

I knew I'd seen it around.... but who was its originator?!


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## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

Hmmm, possibly Jen, or possibly Sarah (who's no longer with us on this forum)???

Whoever it is, I really don't think they'd mind being quoted without attribution.


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## Nathan1097 (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Quirky* 
Hmmm, possibly Jen, or possibly Sarah (who's no longer with us on this forum)???

Whoever it is, I really don't think they'd mind being quoted without attribution.

Ok. Well I'd love to stay and type about it but I'm SOOO tired. I've been working on circ stuff ALL day on the computer and such. Now its time to go snuggle with DBF.


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## party_of_seven (May 10, 2004)

This is slightly OT from the article, but my MIL has sworn up and down that the plastibell didn't involve any cutting. Apparently dh was circed using the plastibell method, and she felt good about her choice because she thought it was more humane and therefore OK. She argued with me incessantly until I showed her a video of a plastibell circ.....I haven't heard a word out of her since.

Dh was born in the 70s, so I think the idea of plastibell=no cutting has been around for quite a while.







:


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## Nathan1097 (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *party_of_six* 
This is slightly OT from the article, but my MIL has sworn up and down that the plastibell didn't involve any cutting. Apparently dh was circed using the plastibell method, and she felt good about her choice because she thought it was more humane and therefore OK. She argued with me incessantly until I showed her a video of a plastibell circ.....I haven't heard a word out of her since.

Dh was born in the 70s, so I think the idea of plastibell=no cutting has been around for quite a while.







:

Likely so. I wonder why having any skin on your body ROT off is preferable (even in someone's mind) to just having a cut wound.


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## calngavinsmom (Feb 19, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nathan1097* 
I knew I'd seen it around.... but who was its originator?!











Quote away








But only if it is used for good....don't give it up to the "dark" side









ETA, here is a link to the origional quote, waaaaaaaaaay back when:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...30&postcount=5

Take care!
Tara


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## Nathan1097 (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *calngavinsmom* 









Quote away








But only if it is used for good....don't give it up to the "dark" side









Take care!
Tara









Crazy....

http://ruinsmiley.tripod.com/MyStarW...es/LSVADER.gif

Where's my Star Wars smilies?

PM me if ya would?


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## SarahLi (Jan 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lula's Mom* 
Sarah,
the Plastibell definitely uses a string. It's what cuts off the circulation and causes the skin to die and fall off.

Yeah, I remember now that it does. Whenever I had to help with one I kept my back turned almost the whole time so I didn't have to watch. One of the Dr.'s made fun of me but I didn't care. The neonatologist actually SAFETY pinned the foreskin to the clamp before he cut it. Who wants to see that?


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## bdavis337 (Jan 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SarahLi* 
Yeah, I remember now that it does. Whenever I had to help with one I kept my back turned almost the whole time so I didn't have to watch. One of the Dr.'s made fun of me but I didn't care. The neonatologist actually SAFETY pinned the foreskin to the clamp before he cut it. Who wants to see that?









: I can't deal with that. I DID THIS to my boys. I had them both circ'ed, my toddler had the plastibell, my oldest did not. I can't believe I was so nonchalant about the whole thing. Makes me want to throw up.


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## NamastePlatypus (Jan 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Papai* 
Oh my god. The doctor in this article is talking about circ preventing HPV and Prostate cancer? They keep coming up with things that circ can prevent!







:

TO bad it can't cure dumb, nothing can!







:

I am so sick and over all of the dumb ass reasons they keep throwing out there about the so called benifits of this horror!! I am so TIRED of it!







:


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## Yulia_R (Jan 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lula's Mom* 
The site I had linked to in my signature is no longer there. Neither is another site with the same info that I had bookmarked. I am easily swayed by conspiracy theory, so I think _They_ are going around shutting up the scientists who discovered this!







But CIRP still has it up, and I've linked to their article. Does it work for you now?

Yes, it does! Thanks!
yulia.


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## InfoisPower (Nov 21, 2001)

NamastePlatypus that would be a great signature line.
Circumcision does not cure dumb! Or any other condition.


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