# external versions, anterior placentas and footling breech baby at 34 weeks



## happyblessedmama (Sep 6, 2003)

Found out baby is footling breech at an ultrasound yesterday to check whether my low-lying placenta had moved.

Placenta is still low but "ok" (how clinical) and anterior - the placenta is right about where a c/s incision would be. Anyway, because baby is footling breech they are giving me 2 weeks and then we talk about a version.

This is my 4th pregnancy and I've never had a c/s, but I'm reading things that say ECVs are contraindicated for women with low placentas. I am not seeing an OB, but would see one to talk about the version (we have very limited healthcare options here, I live in rural Alaska and there's one federal hospital here, and we're not on the road system)

In any event, if you've had a version, could you share whether it worked and what eventually happened, and whether you'd do it again?

What about a footling breech baby? I personally would not like to try footling breech birth. The docs said if I declined the version, they would have to offer me a c/s, which I could decline, and they would attempt to deliver a vaginal breech, but I really don't want to do that (I have large babies for my frame, take a long time to push them out, and we've already had a baby that went through a really rough time and would rather not "take chances").

TIA for any help/experiences/etc. We are doing exercises, one of the docs at the hospital has moxibustion stuff we'd try, etc. I'm just not sold on the version with an anterior low placenta at this point.


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## lrlittle (Nov 11, 2005)

I had a hospital ECV that didn't work. I was about 38 weeks pregnant. I'm not sure if I would do it again. It was very painful and ended up being a very discouraging experience. I don't think I would let a homebirth midwife try it at home, either. I think there is some danger in forcing a baby around and the risks would warrant a hospital setting.

My baby was frank breech and I ended up having him vaginally that way. The OB that I used has also done planned footlings. But he takes each situation into consideration. I've also seen some footling breech birth videos online.

If I were to have another breech I'll definitely be trying everything I did before...moxibustion, chiropractor, positioning, compresses, music, etc. etc.

There are also some suggestions on spinningbabies.com. Hope all goes well for you!!


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

I believe that ECVs are dangerous and you are correct, they are not recommended for people who have low lying placentas. You need to know how far the placenta is from the OS. Ask them this specifically.

I had a hospital ECV a decade ago. I ended up in the OR with an emergency csection and it was a horrific situation. I was lucky we all got out alive. I really wanted a vaginal birth adn that is why I consented to the ECV. ( I had done just about everything to turn my baby prior to the ecv, minus Websters it wasnt available in my area) I wish I just would have had the csection and left it at that.

I would check out spinning babies, and seek out a chiro for Websters. These are probably your best bets. Also with anterior, low placentas you have a risk of having a malpositioned baby even if they are head down, so Websters could also help with that once your baby turns.


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## Rockies5 (May 17, 2005)

All my babies are breech until 34-35 weeks. My first was footling breech (by feel and then u/s) and turned vertex just 3 days before birth (36weeks) he was over 9lbs and 22 inches long and I am a *little* mama (5'2 and I have no torso at all, my "waist" is that indentation where the ribs and hips meet!)

I won't think version, and I wouldn't plan a version. I'd also leave a practice that becomes concerned that a baby is enjoying his roomy uterus (thanks to 3 other siblings) and nice wide pelvic cradle by remaining breech a tad longer then is allowed by mom's (s)caregivers. I know, I know, but I really don't see this as something to worry or panic over.

Focus on vertex, breech is a variation of normal and we all know babies adopt the best position for _them_. I'd talk to baby and be firm about you needing him to change to head down, get out the ironing board and use it as a slant. If you want to get really motivated about it find a chiro who does webster and buy some moxi sticks. You can do the board, while meditating/praying, talking to baby and gently massaging him into vertex.

FYI as my son turned I went immediatley into labor, he also had the shortest, tightest cord I've ever seen (it HAD to be cut, though we tried everything). I know now that it was safest for him to remain breech. I imagine his head on my cervix (it was nearly 16" around) and the weight of him behind put me into labor right away, and that with his activity level (hyper) he could have been in danger of a cord accident had he turned vertex sooner.


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## Robinna (Aug 11, 2003)

I'm going to give you my website - www.breechbirth.ca. Go to birthstories and read Miriam Hannah and that's what happened to me. it's just easier and less emotional than to type it all out again.

My belief is that ECV is safe (this based on info in "Thinking Woman's Guide" and the MWs I've worked with) especially if you try it earlier rather than later. If you're trying to turn a term baby in a tight uterus it's not going to work as well, but is still very unlikely to hurt the baby if they're monitoring heart tones - which they will be, no matter who you have do it. Sometimes there's a reason a baby won't turn (cord wrap, congenital problem, etc) and it's reflected in stressful heart tones during the version, so they know to stop trying.

A few other random bits of info because there's not much about ECV on the site. Footling (or kneeling) is the easiest presentation to turn with ECV. Frank breech (mine) is the hardest. In Canada they don't use tocolytics (muscle relaxants), it's not approved here. the amount of ouchiness you experience will HUGELY depend on the practitioner (one of my MWs it hurt worse than labour, the other, almost no discomfort whatsoever). I found the hospital ECV attempt far more stressful than the attempts at the MW's premises - too many people in the room, nasty envrionment for a homebirther, etc. They monitor closely with a doppler anyway so it's not like they're not going to notice if the baby doesn't like it.

anyway. If it's that or a c/s, I'd do ECV again, and again, and again, before another c/s. If I had a practitioner who was willing to catch a breech babe though I might not bother, I'd just leave it totally to the baby.

peace
Robin


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## QuietTempest (Aug 5, 2004)

I had an ECV at 38 weeks and it was unsuccessful (and quite painful). The doc's trying to move my baby monitored me the entire time and there was never an issue there for either me or the babe. I think it didn't work for me because 1. my daughter was then and still is now incredibly stubborn, and 2. I was 38 weeks along and there just really wasn't much elbow room in there for her to turn.







If the baby I'm carrying this time around turns breech, I intend to see a chiropractor about the "Webster Technique". It's supposed to be much more successful than an ECV, but I was unaware of it then.

Here are some links for more info:
http://www.worldchiropracticalliance...g/aug2001l.htm
http://www.storknet.com/cubbies/childbirth/exsj3.htm


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## Robinna (Aug 11, 2003)

Oh - I should add that if I was carring a persistent footling, I might think differently about the c/s - at least I'd consider it. Footlings have an increased risk of cord prolapse because there isn't a big part of the baby blocking the cervix like there is with a head or a bum. But even at that... I'd go into labour and have an emergency c/s before I scheduled one, on the chance that the baby could move or turn right up until delivery. I don't KNOW that I'd opt for the c/s with a footling. Nobody's done a study about the safety of delivering footlings vs. teh safety of delivering franks or completes because for at least 30 years footlings been almost universally recommended for c/s because of the cord prolapse issue. I don't have any stats, I'm sorry. But I've realized in thinking about your situation that I need to find some for the CBB site.

Sending you lots of + energy and head down vibes!!!! GL with your decision.

xo robin


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## mrsfatty (Dec 21, 2004)

If you're worried about it being breech...see a chiropractor that practice Webster method...now, at 34 weeks your baby has PLENTY of time to turn around...heck babies have turned DURING LABOR...don't do the external versions...not safe...and seeing a chiro is WAY safer than a c-section or the external version...I wouldn't worry...you're still early enough that your baby will most likely turn without any coaxing...


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## TurboClaudia (Nov 18, 2003)

the chinese medicine practice of moxabustion is *most* effective when done between 32-35 weeks, so definitely find a specialist or just some moxa sticks and do it yourself.

sending baby turning vibes...

~claudia


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## andreac (Jul 13, 2003)

I had a successful external version at 39+ weeks with my dd. Before I made that decision I tried everything to get her to turn, I read the spinning babies site, and tried the ice packs, music, slant board, webster tecnique, accupuncture, accupressure, moxibustion, you name it I tried it! My options were down to the version, trying to get a doctor at a hospital almost 2 hours away who might agree to a breech delivery or drive to TN to the Farm (I'm in CT!). I really loved my midwife, but she was relatively young and had never done a breech delivery and was uncomfortable doing one at home, which I totally respected and knew going into things. The OB that did the version had a similar success rate as yours and didn't promise it would work, he said if the baby wasn't moving with gentle prodding, he wasn't going to force it. He also said that it was generally more successful with multips as we were more likely to be able to relax and our uterii(? uteruses?) were a little more relaxed. I was fully informed of all the risks.

All that said, it was a pretty easy procdure. I had a non-stress test and utrasound first and a shot of something (i'm blanking on the name now) to relax my uterus. The version itself took all of 20 seconds. He just put one hand on her head and another on her bum, gave firm, but pretty gentle pressure and she just flipped right over. Had another NST after, she was totally fine and we were out the door within 1/2 an hour to an hour.

She stayed head down and I went on to have an awesome, accidental UC at 41 weeks. She just flew right out!

I'm not suggesting the procedure is without risk, but with an experienced provider, the risks are pretty low and certainly lower than those of a c-section. After doing all the research that was what made up my mind. I was basically facing a c-section if she stayed breech and the risks were less with the version. Hope this helps


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## Robinna (Aug 11, 2003)

For those of you who feel ECV is dangerous, can you please point me at the resources? I would like to present both sides on the CBB site, but I haven't found anything evidence-based that said it wasn't safe. I'd really appreciate any links etc. that you have.

OP - - please forgive the hijack!

thanks
Robin


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