# 5 year-old taken by CPS for sleeping with Dad!



## beru (Nov 19, 2007)

This happened in northern new jersey to a chinese family. I am an acquaintance of their friend.

At school, the boy told/or wrote in an essay about how he felt happy and loved because he slept with his dad at night. The teacher reported the family to CPS! They took the boy away while they investigate the dad for child sexual abuse. My friend is so outraged by this family's situation and disgusted by the US authorities that she is now planning to leave the states to go back to China because she does not want her children raised here.

Anyway, I want to find a way to help the family. They have a lawyer who is very expensive. does anyone know of a lawyer in northern new jersey who would possibly take their case for low cost or pro bono?


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## mom2tatum (Mar 14, 2007)

I am assuming everyone reading this is outraged as well, and I have no real info about lawyers up there...although I do work(nanny) for two attorneys in Philly and have no problem telling them about it and seeing if they know anyone up there who they could mention it to. They might care because they sleep with their children...and they are not AP parents either...which is kinda cool I guess. I think they do it because they aren't around too much for their kids and they know if the boys want to crawl in bed with them, they must need to reconnect emotionally or something...I get the feeling that they just understand that part even though their lifestyle and such is not representative of an AP family at all. So, I can at least mention it.


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## mamalisa (Sep 24, 2002)

That's just nuts.


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## veganf (Dec 12, 2005)

That is absolutely appalling. I'm so sorry for their family.







That poor boy. The prejudice against what is essentially a cultural difference is so very sad. I hope they successfully sue the hell out of CPS.


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## SundayCrepes (Feb 15, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *veganf* 
I hope they successfully sue the hell out of CPS.

The sad reality is sueing CPS may not be in the family's best interest. CPS has all the power. What the family needs to do is get their son back by whatever legal means there are.

Sueing the school district? Although teachers in our state are mandated by law to report possible child abuse, I do not think co-sleeping is considered child abuse. The question is, how should the school district be addressed? Especially since CPS did act on the information.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

How utterly sad. What a perverted worldview that teacher must have.


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## netgyks (Aug 5, 2007)

I can only imagine how that poor little boy feels now


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## Brigitte & Mike (Aug 1, 2007)

I was at a wedding here in Chicago, sitting ast a table full of teachers and their spouses, bfing my 5 month old daughter (at the time). They started talking about how it's gross to BF longer than 6 months and how do people deal with teeth etc. when one teacher said, "we had a kindergartener that was still nursing and sleeping in their parents bed so I called DCFS!". The other agreed and I was appauled. My husband said the kids can sleep with us until they get maried and then their spouses can sleep on the couch







. I'm still bfing (tandem) and it scares me that this could happen to us. I will not make my child feel like it needs to be a secret though so what can you do?? People suck sometimes







:


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## Mamatolea (Jan 17, 2007)

That fries me!!!!!!!


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## *Aimee* (Jan 8, 2007)

My DH is (I thought) very paranoid. He doesnt want me talking about co sleeping, non vaxing, bf, or homeschooling because he's so afraid of CPS getting called


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## hibana (Jun 9, 2006)

: What the heck is with some people?

No help with the CPS issue, though I wonder... it's customary in so much of the world for children to sleep with their parents. Could the parents file a complaint with the school administration based on the fact that cosleeping is an acceptable practice within their culture, and the teacher's actions were a direct assault on their (completely legal!) cultural practice?


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## jeliphish (Jul 18, 2007)

That is so strange and scary that New Jersey removes for this. I am a CPS worker and I know there have been times that crazy people have called in making complaints about co-sleeping. The CPS supervisors don't even contact the family, nor investigate. There are real issues that need our time. That is even an issue we talk about in CPS training. Understanding, that families are different and chose many different parenting styles. We also talked about "coining" and "cupping" which can "seem" like child abuse, but is actually a way that other cultures, specifically asian cultures, use as a home remedy for chest infections and such. The cups will leave a bruise because they are suction cupped on the back...to "draw out" infection. It looks pretty nasty, and frankly like someone beat the heck out of their child's back, but it is a harmless cultural remedy.
I am just shocked that they removed for simply co-sleeping, Do you know if there were any other issues???


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## MilkTrance (Jul 21, 2007)

Land of the free? Yeah, right.

That is absolutely disgusting. I hope they get their child back as quickly as possible.


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## mom2tatum (Mar 14, 2007)

Yeah, I was also thinking they could use their culture to their benefit.

I also want to say, as a former teacher, teachers are quite paranoid about child abuse. I know that I was always on the look out, but that's because I worked in a very impoverished and urban area where it was crazier to me when a child actually had a "normal" family or upbringing. We teachers see a lot of disturbing stuff that most other people aren't exposed to. If you just saw some of the cases of child abuse/neglect that I saw during my just 3 years of teaching, you'd understand a little more the paranoia some teachers feel. However, I bet the teacher reported it to a counselor or principal or somebody else, and then from there it snowballed into calling CPS just to be "safe". They probably should have done a little more digging before calling...but people are just unexposed to this type of parenting and more exposed to abusive practices and freeked - unfortunately.

What sucks is that we had a single mom living next door to us for three years in which I called CPS on twice because I witnessed her beating her then 11 year old daughter (I mean punching and smacking in the face and pushing her onto the ground) on too many occasions as well as emotionally abusing her (calling her "fu**ing slut" and "b*tch" and "dirty whore", etc. ALMOST EVERYDAY) We heard everything through our walls and it was excrutiating to hear. I was scared of her finding out it was me calling, but I did TWICE. CPS said they'd investigate and never DID A THING. And, she was the craziest woman I ever met in my life - she would have never been able to convince CPS otherwise if they would have just come out. Yet, this family loses their child over co-sleeping? WTH


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## ABrez (Apr 4, 2007)

I'm horrified. I'm so sad for this family. My son told a teacher that his step mom beats him on the head and they never called cps, they told my son he needs to try to communicate with his step mom better.







: And yet CPS springs into action over co-sleeping. Absolutely stupid.


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## filiadeluna (Oct 2, 2007)

That is so sad.







Indeed our culture is messed up.


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## NYMama27 (Jul 8, 2005)

This disgusts me so much but it is such typical thinking in this area.


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## JenBuckyfan (Nov 30, 2007)

I don't think this is as cut and dry as people are making it sound (from the facts that are just listed here). Not that the outcome was ok, but if it turned out that the child was being abused and the teacher didn't say anything, what would be said about the teacher at that point? We do want our teachers helping keep our kids safe and looking for signs of potential abuse, and reporting what they see. It seems to me that someone down the line didn't investigate enough and the first step would be to interview the CPS worker and find out why this case was elevated so drastically. Maybe this worker didn't get all of the training needed or should be reprimanded for not following proper protocal.


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## beru (Nov 19, 2007)

I found a couple of resources online with listings of attorneys who have fought these types of cases in the past. I forwarded them on. I would still appreciate any specific recommendations for northern new jersey or new york city.

Thanks.


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## MichaelsSahm (May 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MilkTrance* 
Land of the free? Yeah, right.


You took the words out of my mouth!


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JenBuckyfan* 
I don't think this is as cut and dry as people are making it sound (from the facts that are just listed here). Not that the outcome was ok, but if it turned out that the child was being abused and the teacher didn't say anything, what would be said about the teacher at that point? We do want our teachers helping keep our kids safe and looking for signs of potential abuse, and reporting what they see. It seems to me that someone down the line didn't investigate enough and the first step would be to interview the CPS worker and find out why this case was elevated so drastically. Maybe this worker didn't get all of the training needed or should be reprimanded for not following proper protocal.

Or, maybe there really was sexual abuse going on. Maybe the teacher had suspected it, and the parents are trying to turn it around. Hard to know, really.


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## jamiew (Oct 3, 2007)

This country is SO paranoid.


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## thixle (Sep 26, 2007)

Have you tried x-posting in Activism?

I just can't believe it. I was in "the system" as a child, and was not removed from my mother's custody until I signed "uncontrollable child" paperwork-- meaning, _I_ was the problem. The woman broke my ribs! I have called CPS about a pregnant meth addict with 3 children. I _saw_ her smoke meth, she offered it to me. They didn't investigate. I have called about my neighbors (who have now been evicted) for neglect and abuse, the police told them to "keep it down." I'm just totally shocked that they not only investigated, but removed the child!

ugh. ugh. ugh.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

I have to wonder if there were other things going on in this particular family.

Just because co-sleeping is safe and appropriate does not guarantee that ALL co-sleepers aren't abusive.


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## wildhoneypie (Feb 22, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Aimee** 
My DH is (I thought) very paranoid. He doesnt want me talking about co sleeping, non vaxing, bf, or homeschooling because he's so afraid of CPS getting called









See, thats me I am always worried about being too open about my parenting choices that are less than mainstream, but then on the other hand I feel like not being open makes it seem like I'm doing something wrong so I don't know which way to go with it.

Sorry, not to derail this thread but in my own experience, my father was a single parent for about 5 years. After winter break one year I was telling my 5th grade teacher how we had jumped into my dad's bed to wake him up christmas morning. Well CPS showed up at my school to interview me about the "incident" of my brother and I being in bed with my father.







So yeah, it does happen we weren't removed but then I didn't grow up in New Jersey.

And agreed, I feel so incredibly sad for that little boy. My son is six and I don't want to imagine how he would feel if he were taken away from us. I wonder why they didn't allow the father to leave instead though? Usually if abuse is _suspected_ the "offending parent" can leave and the child remain home. It seems that if they were _certain_ of abuse the father would have been arrested.


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## MamaHen2J&J (May 23, 2007)

God, thats just so hard for me to believe!! I'm not saying I don't believe it, its just crazeeee!!


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## delphiniumpansy (Mar 1, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mahtob* 
How utterly sad. What a perverted worldview that teacher must have.

As a former teacher, I can only say that cosleeping must be really foreign to this teacher. Otherwise, how would he/she think it was child abuse? That is sad. Teachers are usually mandated reporters, which means they are not supposed to question whether what is happening is right or wrong. If they have any doubt, they are supposed to report. But, cosleeping in and of itself should not have raised doubts. Sad society.

Is there any more to the story?


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## SeekingSerenity (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KylieLove06* 
I am a CPS worker and I know there have been times that crazy people have called in making complaints about co-sleeping. The CPS supervisors don't even contact the family, nor investigate. There are real issues that need our time.

I wish I lived in your state. My DH uses CPS as a revenge tool - I called them when we were separated, and again when I saw him physically abusing DS after I came back, and both times they blew me off, even though I had photographs of the bruises and my son detailed how he was struck in the face by his dad.

Then as an act of revenge, when he was angry at me, DH called CPS and reported me for listening to music that contained obscene language around the kids (which I do NOT do). It was surreal. They came out again. I couldn't believe they'd investigate something that was so obviously a ploy to make me look bad. He even called them the day of the interview and tried to call it off, telling the lady he was "mistaken." I asked her if she came out because of the frequency of complaints and she said partially, yes, and she wanted to tell me to STOP calling them. Stop bothering the officials. I was not the one to call them with the frivolous complaint but she was quick to point out that I had called them before.

At the court hearing while separated, DH had made a point of telling the courts I co-slept and breastfed in order to exclude him from the childrens' lives. (DD was 10 months old.) The judge acted shocked and told me I would lose my children if I did not get them into their own beds immediately and start giving my daughter solids and a bottle.

That's why I went back to DH. Part of it anyway - he can physically abuse my son and it's okay, but if I BF and co-sleep, I'm threatened with losing custody.

Nothing about this case (the 5-yo being removed for co-sleeping) surprises me. It's sad, but it's the way this country works. I feel bad for that family... you think you're coming to the free world, a new life with endless opportunities, and you lose your child to a system gone beserk with paranoia. Sickening, really.


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## angela dawn (Sep 25, 2006)

Thats so crazy?
To remove a child because he sleeps in the same bed as his dad. I co-sleept with my parents on and off till I was 10!!! who knows, maybe even longer.

But I am social worker here in Canada and I have never heard or came across anything like this. There must have been some other concerns, I just can't believe a judge would allow a child to be taken in care for co-sleeping. In canada we have to prove to the judge that the child is at risk or has been abused (via doctor's confirmation or other credible sources). We can't just take a child nor would we because our goal is to keep families together when possible. So there must have been other information that the social worker is aware of that has caused this removal. Its sad either way......


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## Dr.Worm (Nov 20, 2001)

Oh, that just makes me SICK! Why don't people worry about parents who are actually ABUSING their kids...it's amazing how clueless people are! Years ago Montel did a show about extended nursing and co-sleeping and that one psychologist...don't know his name, he looks like a grown-up version of Steve Urkel from Family Matters, was saying kids shouldn't sleep with their parents because there might be sexual arousal..it's that kind of thinking by so-called "experts" that gets kids taken away...hope this family is reunited.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

I sure hope they get their son back soon!


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## selena_ski (Jun 16, 2006)

I was abused by my stepmother- we had CPS out all the time and nothing ever happened.

Now they get called for co-sleeping and other stupid stuff ie refusing medical procedures at birth and other perfectly healthy things to do.

GRRRRRRRR is all i have to say


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## EricaE (Aug 1, 2003)

How sad for that little boy and his family


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

The "there could be something more going on" posts have a scary feel of "no smoke without fire."

However, it is true that we don't have any real evidence, so I will settle for praying that all officials involved in all child abuse cases have the open minds and open hearts needed to act where needed and admit to their mistakes when mistakes are made.


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## puddle (Aug 30, 2007)

Ugh... how many sexually abused children feel "happy and loved" when sleeping with an abusive parent?


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## zoshamosha (Apr 15, 2006)

What's interesting to me about this case is that it seems to me that the teacher would probably have not been concerned had the child talked about co-sleeping with his mother. I'm totally speculating, of course.

It seems dads have a hard time expressing intimacy and affection with their children at risk of looking like sexual abusers. It's really sad.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Wow...never occured to me that my DH sleeping with our 9 YO DS was a crime, but OK. Hope they are reunited soon. FWIW, I was 12 or 13 before I slept alone...and I escaped molestation free too!







Wonder if that teacher even CARES she helped rip a family apart???


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## Momily (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *puddle* 
Ugh... how many sexually abused children feel "happy and loved" when sleeping with an abusive parent?









As someone who has worked with abused children, I can tell you that children often do love and feel love from the people who hurt them.

Honestly, I don't think we can jump to any conclusion here, we simply don't have enough information about what the child actually said and how it was handled.


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## tammyswanson (Feb 19, 2007)

The problem with CPS is that it seems like there are no consistences in the agency. Some do an overzealous job, while others don't give a hoot. We have a neighbor who abused her boys sexually and nothing was ever done about it, and I'm talking some serious incest.

If you didn't see this website, you might want to check it out: http://www.fightcps.com/

I see teachers over reacting all the time, and yet a lot of them miss the real abuse cases.


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## beru (Nov 19, 2007)

There has been some speculation about the situation here. And I totally understand that. I don't have any more details to add. I am choosing to believe that this man is innocent because of my friend's support of him. But I don't know him so there could be more to this...I think there may have been some language issues when the child was interviewed. I'll ask for an update when I see my friend Monday.


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## Brigitte & Mike (Aug 1, 2007)

Any update on this situation?


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