# DH hassling me about ERF



## Belia (Dec 22, 2007)

DS turned one in August. Around Christmas DH started talking about turning DS's carseat around to FF. Talking about how squished he is in the seat and uncomfortable he looks. Rolling his eyes and making comments about being overprotective. DS is great in the car- he never complains.

I flat out told him no- that the research supports ERF- and that until he could show me data that favors turning him around I was leaving him how he is.

So he's fine, but still makes little comments once in a while about how DS is so squished and his legs are cramped, etc etc etc.

So I read the article that someone here just linked to yesterday about ERF and I thought it was real good, so I forwarded it to DH this morning.

Tonight I asked DH if he had read it and watched the crash test video, and he said he had but that he still didn't think it was necessary to ERF.

Here's me:









See, I thought all along that the problem was the data. He didn't believe that ERF was safer, or enough safer to make a difference. I thought he didn't think I knew what I was talking about.

But it turns out that's not the case. As he put it tonight, "I never doubted the data that RF is safer." He just doesn't think it's likely that we will ever need the extra protection of RF, so why bother.

Like he said, "We could go ahead and hurricane-proof our house, and it would be safer, but the likelihood that we'll ever be in a hurricane is so small that it doesn't make any sense to put in the extra effort."

I asked him if he was really willing to take that chance... if he wanted to risk being the one rare case where RF would make a difference... and he rolled his eyes and said I was overreacting. That we grew up going on road trips and rolling around the back of the station wagon and we turned out fine.

He basically thinks I'm ridiculous, and he's humoring me.

Now what???


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## MamieCole (Jun 1, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Belia* 
I asked him if he was really willing to take that chance... if he wanted to risk being the one rare case where RF would make a difference... and he rolled his eyes and said I was overreacting. That we grew up going on road trips and rolling around the back of the station wagon and we turned out fine.

Now what???

Ask him how many accidents he SURVIVED as a child rolling around in the back of a station wagon. He's only "fine" because he was fortunate enough to not be in an accident as a child.

Maybe try giving him the statistics and odds of being involved in a car crash? Make the argument that they are called "accidents" for a reason...you can't control other people on the road, etc?

Maybe show him this video?

Good luck mama! Way to stick to your guns. I can only imagine how annoying those little comments are.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Would he feel fine with the baby on his lap while driving? As long as there's no accidents that's fine too....

-Angela


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## laughingfox (Dec 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Belia* 
Like he said, "We could go ahead and hurricane-proof our house, and it would be safer, but the likelihood that we'll ever be in a hurricane is so small that it doesn't make any sense to put in the extra effort."

If preparing your house for a natural disaster was a free option that took absolutely no effort at all, that might be a more relevant argument.

It's not like you're going out of your way to spend extra money, time, and effort on keeping him rear facing. It's as simple as _not_ turning him.
In this case, it's the easier, lazier option that just so happens to also be the safest. Who couldn't go for that?


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## thefreckledmama (Jun 1, 2007)

Turning the seat around FF now would require more effort than leaving it how it is currently.









I would say something like this: "I know you don't feel it's important, but I do. This is something I've researched and spent a lot of time thinking about, and I hope that you would trust that I'm only wanting to do what I feel is best for our child, and let it go."

This always works with my husband regardless of what I'm trying to talk him into.


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## Latte Mama (Aug 25, 2009)

Ask your DH what HE gains by turning your child FF. Seriously, because his behavior isn't showing that he wants to do it for your kid. So what does it benefit him?

I will never understand why the big desire to turn a kid FF? Is it so much fun? I'd rather my kid be safe.


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## violet_ (Nov 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laughingfox* 
If preparing your house for a natural disaster was a free option that took absolutely no effort at all, that might be a more relevant argument.

It's not like you're going out of your way to spend extra money, time, and effort on keeping him rear facing. It's as simple as _not_ turning him.
In this case, it's the easier, lazier option that just so happens to also be the safest. Who couldn't go for that?









This.


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## mysticmomma (Feb 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Belia* 

He basically thinks I'm ridiculous, and *he's humoring me*.

Now what???

Drop it. he's humoring you. AAP now says 2 years RF.


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## mysticmomma (Feb 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Latte Mama* 
Ask your DH what HE gains by turning your child FF. Seriously, because his behavior isn't showing that he wants to do it for your kid. So what does it benefit him?

I will never understand why the big desire to turn a kid FF? Is it so much fun? I'd rather my kid be safe.

it doesn't say 2 years, i can't find that but it says "limits of the seat."


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## mysticmomma (Feb 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mysticmomma* 
it doesn't say 2 years, i can't find that but it says "limits of the seat."

found it!

http://aapnews.aappublications.org/c...full/30/4/12-a


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## Mom2M (Sep 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamieCole* 
Ask him how many accidents he SURVIVED as a child rolling around in the back of a station wagon. He's only "fine" because he was fortunate enough to not be in an accident as a child.

Maybe try giving him the statistics and odds of being involved in a car crash? Make the argument that they are called "accidents" for a reason...you can't control other people on the road, etc?

Maybe show him this video?

Good luck mama! Way to stick to your guns. I can only imagine how annoying those little comments are.

That video changed everyone's minds who saw it. I emailed it around.


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Belia* 
But it turns out that's not the case. As he put it tonight, "I never doubted the data that RF is safer." He just doesn't think it's likely that we will ever need the extra protection of RF, so why bother.


If you don't want to drop it, since he's not going to turn it himself you could just do that, but if you do want to talk about it more, I'd use the stupid-driver argument. I try to be careful and conscientious, I'd assume he thinks the same of his own driving as well as yours, but surely he's seen idiots on the road, people not paying nearly enough attention and weaving between lanes. And sometimes it's a near-miss, with me trying to avoid their craziness.

Plus, the safety difference isn't just death/not-death, it's severity of injury--he may not have thought of it that way. I wouldn't want to explain to my kid that I'd turned them around, knowing RF was safer, and then some idiot slammed into me, I wasn't quick enough to avoid them, and my kid was in pain in the hospital because of it.

My DH doesn't have a high opinion of the general public, so if I had to argue it to him, the bad-driver argument would be compelling.


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## Belia (Dec 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Would he feel fine with the baby on his lap while driving? As long as there's no accidents that's fine too....

-Angela


Yes, he probably would. Especially for a short trip.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Latte Mama* 
Ask your DH what HE gains by turning your child FF. Seriously, because his behavior isn't showing that he wants to do it for your kid. So what does it benefit him?

I will never understand why the big desire to turn a kid FF? Is it so much fun? I'd rather my kid be safe.


He says that DS is too squished- that we're hurting his legs and maybe deforming his hips by forcing him to bend his legs in the seat.

DS is still well within the limits of the seat for RF, though. We have a True Fit and a Triumph Advance, so these are high quality seats.

Thanks for your ideas, mamas. The thing I have going for me is that DH would NEVER EVER EVER turn the seat around without my ok. He's just irritating me with the comments.

And I am still so shocked that he thinks the way he does.


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## lisalulu (Jun 15, 2005)

Personally, I probably wouldn't try and do anymore convincing and just let it go if you don't think he'd try and switch it. If the comments bug you, I'd ask him to stop. I have a feeling my dh thought I was overprotective not turning at 1 as well but thankfully he kept his mouth shut.


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

If you do want to keep discussing it, it sounds to me as though his issue is that he thinks ERF is harmful. He may say that he thinks you are overprotective, but it sounds to me like he thinks you are UNDERprotective of the legs. So you don't need research to show that it's safer in a crash-- you need research to show that it won't harm the LO's legs. I don't know where to find that kind of research but maybe someone here does.


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## Therese's Mommy (Jan 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Belia* 
DS is still well within the limits of the seat for RF, though. We have a True Fit and a Triumph Advance, so these are high quality seats.

My nearly 3yo is RF in a Triumph Advance and she never complains about being uncomfortable in her seat. Now, my FF 5yo does complain about being uncomfortable in her seat. Your son's legs are much more comfortable bent and resting on the seat then they would be dangling. And if they wouldn't dangle if he were FF then there is no way he is cramped RF. Sorry your dh is giving you a hard time


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## ~cassie~ (Sep 30, 2006)

My husband is the same way. We got in a very big arguement about it about 2-3 mths back. But ds is 20 mths and still RF







My dh kept arguing "well don't hit anyone!" Seriously, how often do people in accidents aim to hit someone? I'm rather careful but I do get distracted at times, esp when my 2 1/2 yr old throws his sippy cup at my head! I'm not really worried about my driving, more the other people on the road and my dh does not see that. However, I sent him a slew or videos and articles to read through and after that he was ok with it. Didn't matter b/c I was going to do what I wanted and could care less if he wants to argue with me about it.


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

What I think I'd do, if the comments persisted, would be to cordially invite him to go and find some kind of evidence to support his point of view. If you've shown him expert advice and evidence, and he still disagrees, then he should produce some evidence. And I'd gently but maybe a little forcefully inform him that until he produces some evidence, I'd like him to shut up with the comments.

That's just me, though. And I know my husband would get the point. So maybe not quite so "shut up"-y, if your DH is likely to get upset about that part.


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## Mbella (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamieCole* 
Ask him how many accidents he SURVIVED as a child rolling around in the back of a station wagon. He's only "fine" because he was fortunate enough to not be in an accident as a child.

Maybe try giving him the statistics and odds of being involved in a car crash? Make the argument that they are called "accidents" for a reason...you can't control other people on the road, etc?

Maybe show him this video?

Good luck mama! Way to stick to your guns. I can only imagine how annoying those little comments are.











Yup, this video is what changed dh's view of ERF! I also sent it to a friend and now she also ERF her dd!


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## boheime (Oct 25, 2005)

My husband didn't get teh ERF thing. He is great with everything AP, CL, alternative health care and birthing choices, etc. but he just didn't get ERF. I ended up caving on our first two. They ERF compared to everyone else we knew but were turned earlier than I would have liked (and are still in 5 pt. harnasses). He started it again when ds2 turned 2 years old. At that point, I went off on him. I said that *I* was the one who had done the research and started spouting off facts and statistics. We were in the van driving somehwere and he was captive. I proably went on for about 10 or 15 minutes before saying that the next tim ehe brought it up he had better have some hard core evidence. He was silent for a few moments and then said, "You are right. You *are* the one who has done the research and I should trust you on this."

Ds1 (7 1/2) and dd1 (5 1/2) are in Regents and ds2 (3 in July) and dd2 (1 week) are RFing in TAs.


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## bandgeek (Sep 12, 2006)

Car accidents are the #1 killer of kids over 1. So the "we'll likely never need the extra protection" just doesn't make any sense. He's more likely to be hurt or killed in a car than anywhere else...it makes total sense to focus on the best protection in the car.

Car accidents are super common and cars are something many of us use EVERY DAY.

Hope you are able to talk some sense into him if he starts harping on it again.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

My main concern would be that he'd start in on your ds and talk about "aren't you cramped?" "Don't you want to face forward?" and basically work him up so that he's unnecessarily upset by his car seat.


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## jillmamma (Apr 11, 2005)

My DH also thinks I am nuts for ERF as well. Our DD is 4.5 and small for her age (maybe 30 lb now?), and was RF till just a few months ago in a Britax Decathlon (33 lb limit), right before the baby came. I only turned her then so that I could fit 3 carseats across the back better, plus she was already 4. He liked to give me a hard time sometimes too, but worse was the in-laws talking about her legs being cramped, etc. I had a great argument up till age 2...she was not even 20 lb yet, so it would have been illegal before then.







But between 2 and 4, I had to explain over and over about how I am WAY more concerned about the possibility of a broken neck vs. cramped legs (which DD has NEVER had issues with BTW







). In our case, I am the one who installs the carseats, so I get to do it the way I feel is safest. If he does not have to mess with it, it is pretty much a non issue (except for the "are we turning her yet?" questions). I also had a mirror so I could see her and she could see me, so that was not an issue. One plus now is that I have done it once, he already KNOWS my stance and that my little DD will be RF till at least 4 as well.







I plan to get her a SK Radian once she is out of the infant bucket seat. I am really firm about a few things (ERF and EBF) and willing to bend on others, but not that, and he has other things he is firm about that I defer to him on, so it all works out.


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## KristyDi (Jun 5, 2007)

If it were me, I say something like this.

"You know what honey, you're most likely right. We probably won't get into an accident. But, then again everyone thinks that and if LO were to be seriously injured, or even killed riding FF when we both _knew_ RF was safer, I would never be able to live with myself for caving to you and I'm afraid I'd have a hard time forgiving you for pressuring me.

I know you think I'm over reacting here, but I've done the research, as you know. If you know of something I've missed that shows we're doing some harm to LO by keeping him RF then please show me. Otherwise, back off because you're annoying me with the constant comments."


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## Fyrestorm (Feb 14, 2006)

Have him watch this...it shows actual crash tests comparing the 2.


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## MacKinnon (Jun 15, 2004)

Well, I don't have this debate with my DH but I do spend alot of time working with parents, and the whole "Well, I didn't do XYZ (booster, ERF, etc.) and I turned out fine" line is one of the most common. When parents are persistent, I often respond with something like, "You were lucky. You weren't safe. My sister wasn't lucky. She was nearly killed in a crash at 7 years old, not in a booster, and in the front seat. The crash happened on a bright sunny day, on a drive my Mom took all the time, in the summer. I however, made it through my childhood without being injured and I never was in a booster either. Does that mean that my sister should keep her children boostered because she is unlucky and mine or OK to be not boostered, because I'm lucky?" Drawing a direct parallel often helps parents realize that not being injured when your parents did XYZ is about luck, not about safety.

On the other hand, if your DH is really not going to turn your DS, and he is just "humoring" you but being respectful, it might be a "pick your battles" thing. If it was my DH I would probably just shoot him a, "We've had this conversation." sort of comment.


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