# At what age would you let your child walk the mall alone?



## pranava (Aug 11, 2007)

I'm not yet a mother, and neither are my co-workers, but we just had a conversation about letting our future kids walk around the mall/town/neighborhood alone. I was shocked to find that I was alone in the thought that I wouldn't let an 8 year old walk around the mall by herself. My co-workers said they were walking around town alone by that age, and they thought it was fine. One said that as long as her kid had a cell phone, she wouldn't care if they went anywhere alone.

My opinion - My 8 year old should be in my sight in public places like the mall, and if they aren't in my sight, they should be in the sight of another adult that I trust. Am I being overprotective before I even have kids? I don't want to stifle them, but 8 seems young to me.


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## wannabemoms (Sep 17, 2007)

You're not alone. I agree that's too young.

I heard on the radio this morning that an 11-year-old got sexually assaulted and threatened with murder when she was walking home from a friend's house.... at *THREE O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING*!!!!! What is a child of that age doing outside at that time of day???







:

Holy smokes. I think kids need to have independence, but not to the point that it puts their safety at risk.


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## cabo (Aug 17, 2007)

I would say, it depends on where you live and the kind of mall. Certainly not if I was still living in NYC. Over here (Germany) in my 500.000 people town I certainly would. We have reasonably sized malls, with 2 floors, each 100m long. I would tell him to meet at a certain store at a certain time.
The same goes for walking around the neighbourhood. Heck, I even sent the 6yr old out to get some groceries and a kids magazine by himself (its a 5min walk). He's fine with that. We have sidewalks and the cars go slow. He's been playing outside since he was 4. At first with frequent checks every 5 minutes or so, now he stays outside for 2-3 hours. He stops at home ocasionally for going to the bathroom, getting toys or a drink. There are several other kids around, the neighbours pretty much know which kid belongs where, he knows how far he is allowed to stray from the house (about 300 m in each direction) and he hears the churchbells at six which is his signal to come home.


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## pranava (Aug 11, 2007)

Just looking for my thread ?


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## moonshoes (Jun 1, 2007)

well, my children are 4 and 6, and we don't go to "the mall" but for the sake of argument, I would say I would allow my children to walk around alone when the oldest is around 14 and I am also "in" the mall somewhere with some way to keep in contact.

They can go to the mall by themselves when they can drive themselves there.


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## Mrsboyko (Nov 13, 2007)

No way. I was probably 12 before my mom let me walk around the mall alone, and that was before all this terrorist crap and other nastiness. I agree that cell phones do help, but any 8 y/o can have a phone taken from them long before they can use it if they are attacked by an adult. 8 y/o's are just NOT strong enough to defend themselves and they don't have the experience to know when someone is a true threat or just being friendly. KWIM? Personally, I lean more towards the 11-12 age for being at the mall unsupervised. Walking to the local store, maybe more like 10, but still I'd be paranoid about it. I grew up in a pretty small town too and I don't remember going anywhere alone till I was over 10, other than the neighbor kids houses.

Am I strange in this?


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## nolansmummy (Apr 19, 2005)

I was thinking along the lines of 13 or so. When i was younger i would walk a ton of places when i was 11, but i know i was more responsible and mature than Some teens are today so really i'd have to know my own kids before deciding.
Also they are still very young, who knows how the world will change in ten years.
I for sure think an eight year old is too young. But thats just my opinion. Others may feel different. and just cuz they have a cell phone, well i think thats just a false sense of security.


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## katharinerose (Oct 22, 2007)

It would depend on the kid and the area. I know I was walking/biking to school and taking the city bus all over town alone by 11, in an ok but not super great town. My little sister, then 11, and I, then 14, were set loose in DC by my Mom for several days while she was at a conference. But she knew we'd spend all our time at the Smithsonians. It was great.

I'm a long-time Girl Scout, so I have the buddy system permanently stamped into my skull. So, assuming my child and the friend/sib she was with were responsible enough not to leave the building, we had a firm meeting time, and they knew where to find help if they needed it, I'd probably let them roam at 8 or 9. Younger kids could be without parent supervision if there was an (again, reasonably responsible) older sibling-say 12 or so. If they're old enough to babysit, they're old enough to take their younger siblings shopping.

I would likely not let my child go somewhere completely alone (no buddy or adult) until middle school, and only then if I was pretty sure they could be trusted to be where they said they were going to be. And, yeah, no wandering the streets at 3 AM. Heck, I won't wander the streets alone at 3 AM.


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## snuggly mama (Mar 29, 2004)

Dd is 12, and I certainly wouldn't let her walk around the mall alone. Even with a friend, I'd be pretty leary at this age. Maybe in another year or two. I think, personally, the mall isn't a good place for that kind of independence as a first step . . . maybe some other venue would work better.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I let my dd walk around the mall with friends while I was at the mall when she was 11. By 12-13, I was willing to drop them off.

She's 15, I don't think I would let her walk around completely alone even now. I don't really know why either, it just feels wrong.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

We never go to the mall, but if I were there, I'd have let ds1 walk around by himself at 8, no problem. He was walking to school alone at 10.


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## crazydiamond (May 31, 2005)

I'm thinking somewhere in the 12-13ish age range.

To me, it's not just about "walking alone". If the child were truly walking alone and had a mission (go to X store and buy Y, then come right back), I might be okay with it.

Most of the time, the kids are there to hang out. Do 8 year olds (or 12-13 yr olds for that matter) likes to walk around the mall by themselves? I've pretty much only seen kids walking the mall in a group. And I know from personal experience that groups somehow alter the decision-making capacity of kids and they end up doing things they wouldn't have normally. Kids just tend to do more stupid things in front of their friends than alone. _That_ is what worries me most.


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## kblackstone444 (Jun 17, 2007)

My son is 12. I would not let him walk the mall by himself until he was at least 16, and even then, if he didn't have his cell phone, if I wasn't also in the mall, if he wasn't with a friend or whatever, I'm not sure that would happen. Then again, we do live about 20 miles from the nearest mall.


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## MommytoTwo (Jun 20, 2004)

Depends on the area you live in, but for myself I would say 12 years old.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crazydiamond* 
Most of the time, the kids are there to hang out. Do 8 year olds (or 12-13 yr olds for that matter) likes to walk around the mall by themselves? I've pretty much only seen kids walking the mall in a group.

Although the OP did use the word "alone," I assumed she just meant without parents, not technically being by oneself.

It would depend on the kid, but I guess I'd start feeling okay with my kid walking around the mall with no adults around 13-14. Who knows how my answer will change once I actually have kids that age, though.


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## crazydiamond (May 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
Although the OP did use the word "alone," I assumed she just meant without parents, not technically being by oneself.

Oh, yeah I understood that too. I guess I was trying to say that if the child were truly alone (no friends or adults) I'd be okay with the child going somewhere specific at a younger age than I would if the child were to be roaming around with friends.

And since most kids won't enjoy being all alone with no friends, my answer would definitely be "older than 8".


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## delphiniumpansy (Mar 1, 2007)

40

seriously, I would encourage my children to never go to the mall to begin with. We shop locally not at chains. But, if a mall visit is necessary, I would let her go without a parent when she is a teen. Still not alone. No one should be at the mall alone. That is just sad.


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## flminivanmama (Nov 21, 2001)

my twins are almost 8. maybe they are immature (??) but there is NO WAY I think they'd be able to handle themselves in a mall without an adult! (or maybe I just have little faith in them??)


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *delphiniumpansy* 
No one should be at the mall alone. That is just sad.

Umm...why is it sad?


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## newmommy (Sep 15, 2003)

The mall is not within walking distance, but even if it were, I'd just take the time to hop in the car and drop DS off...so no walking alone required.

To walk the mall (inside), the earliest age I _might_ feel comfortable with is 13...and that's WITH a group of friends AND he has a cell phone.

I just don't see the point in letting an 8 year old child walk the mall alone. In my region, the child would get stopped by Mall Security and ask "Where are your Parents?"

All Children Under Age 18 must be accompanied by an Adult.

That's posted in just about all the malls in my region.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Not 8. My 9yos best friend goes to look at toys, DVDs and video games in Walmart while his mum does the shopping, and that freaks me out whenever we bump into him there. (He is a very grownup little boy, but still...) My 9yo gets to go to the local shop by himself, crossing two roads with traffic controls, and gets to take the bus to school by himself if we're having some kind of domestic crisis that means I can't go with them. My 7yo can go on the bus by himself too, but only with his brothers company. That said, in our neighbourhood if they sneezed without covering their mouths with their hands I'd know about it before the end of the day.


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## ProtoLawyer (Apr 16, 2007)

I think I was about 12 before I could go to the mall with friends without a parent there (we'd still have to be dropped off/picked up--no public transit, not sure if my parents would have let me use it anyway). I could go completely alone when I could drive there myself, but I didn't really want to unless I had a specific thing to buy. (I still only go to the mall if I need something at the Apple Store -- everything else I try to buy from local merchants, thrift stores, etc.)


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## nicole lisa (Oct 27, 2004)

DS is 7 and if we're at the mall together and having a snack and he has to use the washroom he goes through the mall to the washroom and back on his own while I stay at the table. I'd be OK with him going to a store in the mall on his own if he had a desire to. When we're in a department store and I'm looking at clothes he'll often go to the toy section alone and browse for a bit. he does that in the grocery store as well as I shop.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I must be missing something. What is the concern with a kid in the mall?


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## angelpie545 (Feb 23, 2005)

I think about 12 or 13 in groups, but I don't think I'd let a kid go to the mall by themselves with no friends until they are about 16 or 17 in groups, depending on the maturity of the child. I don't really think there is any "right" age, because a lot of it depends on the kid, the area, ext. I was allowed to walk around the mall freely when I was about 16 or so, and since then, I pretty much came and went to the house as I pleased. My mom worried about me, but I was pretty smart about things.


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## rainyday (Apr 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newmommy* 
All Children Under Age 18 must be accompanied by an Adult.

That's posted in just about all the malls in my region.

Wow. Where do you live? Every place I've lived has had lots of teens at the mall. In fact a good portion of the mall stores are aimed at teens, so if they weren't allowed to be there alone, a lot of those stores would go under!


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## nicole lisa (Oct 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newmommy* 
All Children Under Age 18 must be accompanied by an Adult.

That's posted in just about all the malls in my region.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *rainyday* 
Wow. Where do you live? Every place I've lived has had lots of teens at the mall. In fact a good portion of the mall stores are aimed at teens, so if they weren't allowed to be there alone, a lot of those stores would go under!

I know! Malls would close if teens weren't allowed to hang in them. So a teen is old enough to babysit children all by themselves but not shop? Sole responsibility for the welfare of a younger child is OK and serving us our drinks and fries is OK and working the cash at stores in the mall is OK but being in the mall without a parent isn't? No wonder teens feel so confused and disrespected in our world!


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## rainyday (Apr 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicole lisa* 
I know! Malls would close if teens weren't allowed to hang in them. So a teen is old enough to babysit children all by themselves but not shop? Sole responsibility for the welfare of a younger child is OK and serving us our drinks and fries is OK and working the cash at stores in the mall is OK but being in the mall without a parent isn't? No wonder teens feel so confused and disrespected in our world!

Wait! They wouldn't be able to serve drinks and fries unless their parent is there, according to that policy! And somehow I can't see a lot of parents agreeing to spend four or six hours hanging out at the food court at Macy's while their teenager works!


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

I am kinda a stages type person. Around 8 or nine we would let her and her friend go to another store while we finished up. as in "we will meet you at XYZ store in about 10 minutes.by this age (11) I would let her and some friends wander around by them self as long as I was in the building. By 13 I would hope she would be mature enough to be left alone in the building (although I believe our mall does not allow this. i think anyone under 16 has to be accompanied by an adult)

all that said we only go to the mall about three times a year. At target they are free to roam and a the grocery store they act like they own the place.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

It depends on a lot of things- the individual kid, the specific environment, the time maybe?







I don't think there can be just one right answer for these kinds of questions really.

My kids were okay around the mall at 11 or so together or with friends, but I was usually in the mall too and we'd meet up somewhere at a time or call each other etc. They mostly prefered to hang with me anyway.

Now at 14 and 16 they can go without me no problem. A mall being off limits to kids under 18 unless they have an adult with them is one of the most ridiculous things ever, IMO.


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## Breeder (May 28, 2006)

I wasn't allowed to wander around the mall until I was 14 (the same age I was "old enough" to be dropped off at the movie theater with my friends)

For me I think I'll know the right age when I see it.

IMO Eight years old is too young to be walking anywhere alone. Mall, store, library etc. I just don't think they are emotionally mature enough or physically strong enough to fight off someone who would do them harm.


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## wildmonkeys (Oct 4, 2004)

Don't know how old they would have to be, but my oldest will be eight this month and he is not even close to old enough. He is still little in many ways and really needs the help of an adult he knows if things go wrong. So I can't ay how old, but I can't imagine letting my 8 year old wander around alone yet.


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## KBecks (Jan 3, 2007)

My immediate answer was age 14. That's a gut first reaction.


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## slpmgpkcp (Dec 24, 2007)

Like never. I used to work in an office at our mall and know what kind of people hang out there. There is a lot drugs, sex and other things that go on at the mall. I didn't let my step son hang out at the mall and I won't let my children hang out there. Too many kids and too many problems.


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## kathywiehl (Dec 9, 2003)

I think it really depends on the area and child him/herself. My dd was allowed to walk the mall alone at age 12 but only if she had her cell phone and I made her check in with me in person every 15 minutes at first. This was only while I was there shopping anyway. Later, we increased the check in time to every 30 minutes, and then 45 and eventually we started dropping her off for 1.5 hrs or so at a time. Usually I'm nearby running errands and she has her cell and checks in with me every 30 minutes or so.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newmommy* 
I just don't see the point in letting an 8 year old child walk the mall alone. In my region, the child would get stopped by Mall Security and ask "Where are your Parents?"









I wouldn't leave an 8-year-old home alone where there are locked doors and neighbors that we know and trust. Why on earth would I let him walk around in a place with nothing but strangers and where 10 zillion people have access to him?

I'm thinking 13 or 14. And with a buddy or two, not alone. Truthfully, though, I can't see a reason why he would need to be hanging around the mall by himself, even at that age.


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## hellyaellen (Nov 8, 2005)

at the mall in my town of about 20,000 i would let my dd walk to the next store while in my sight. i would possibly allow her and a friend to walk to the next store together while i finished a purchase.

in the bigger mall 45 minutes away she must be with me at all times, and the same rule would apply even if she had a friend w/ her

i would let her go to our mall with a group when she was maybe 13-15 ???

and to the mall in the next town with a group when she was maybe 16-17 ????


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## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I must be missing something. What is the concern with a kid in the mall?

They are Afraid of Strangers. They are also Afraid of Child Misbehavior.

If my child was going to be respectful of rules and could pass the Test of Twelve then I would let him go. http://life.familyeducation.com/safe...tml?detoured=1

My particular children I expect to be able to pass at 8. I have two close together, so I would be a little concerned about their ability to not start cutting up or daring each other to do stuff, but we can evaluate that when it's closer.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Wow. That sounds like my ex-husband. Not leaving my young child alone means I'm living in fear.









Actually, I look at in a different way. It's too much responsibility to heap onto a child that young. The world isn't set up for children that age to have free reign. If it were, then there really wouldn't be much of a need for parents.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Thinking further, it's also interesting to me that that test comes from a Gavin de Becker book. I can't imagine him agreeing with letting a young child roam a shopping mall alone.


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## kathywiehl (Dec 9, 2003)

Just wanted to add that when I was 12 I was allowed to be dropped off at the mall. We didnt' have cell phones and the only way to reach my parents was via a pay phone outside the mall.

I did plenty of drinking, smoking, and getting high at the mall. We'd just go outside and pass stuff around and then go back into the mall to hang out and watch the boys play video games. My parents had no clue or maybe they did but they were in denial.


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## BedHead (Mar 8, 2007)

Age 12. With her cell phone. She's almost 14 now and I don't let her go if she doesn't have her cell phone charged. It's more a convenience thing for me than anything else - if I go to pick her up and can't find her I don't want to be spending an hour looking for her.


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

I was dropped off at the mall to hang out when I was 13 years old. I feel that is way too young. At that time ofcourse I thought it was great, lol. But now that I'm a mother and times they have-a-changed there's no way my kids would be dropped off that young. In fact, when I was 18 I knew a girl who was abducted at gun point in the same mall I was left at when I was only 13 years old. That's very scary. The guy raped her and took her back to the mall and dropped her off later. She was alone and that made it easier for the man but still and yet it was scary knowing I had been going out there to hang out at a much, much younger age.

I also had another two friends who would hitch hike a lot when we were teens and they got picked up by a guy they thought they knew and he drove them from the same mall supposedly home but drove them somewhere else. He didn't hurt them but he gave them a very good scare. They trusted him. They were only 15 at the time.

Funny, how when you're a teen you are cool and want to do cool things when mom and dad aren't around. It's sooo easy to say your kid is mature enough in your eyes, but you have no idea what choices they are making while alone without you there. I made some pretty scary choices back then and I'm so surprised I made it through my teenage years alive and untouched. In fact, I was a church going, good grades, perfect little girl at home. Ofcourse I wouldn't make bad choices outside the home while totally alone







ha!

I often wonder "what on earth were my parents thinking?" by letting me do things totally unchaperoned at such a young age. I guess as long as they felt "I" was happy and "I" was out of their hair then they didn't care what I was doing.







how sad. I can say, without a doubt, it ain't happening with my own children.


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:

Age 12. With her cell phone.
how can a cell phone help if someone drags her to their car by gunpoint? Just curious.


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kathywiehl* 
I did plenty of drinking, smoking, and getting high at the mall. We'd just go outside and pass stuff around and then go back into the mall to hang out and watch the boys play video games. My parents had no clue or maybe they did but they were in denial.

exactly. I wonder all the time how much more stupid _could_ my parents have been. I know for a fact my mother was just naive. My dad, well he just didn't care. Times are much, much worse now. Just watch MTV for 10 minutes out of any given time of day and you will see that.







Kids think they know it all now and are doing everything at a MUCH younger age. I'm so glad I'm not one of those "naive" moms who think their child is just fine with a cell phone because they are their perfect, can do nothing wrong child. I WAS that child and I know all too well what a kid can do behind their parents back. My kids will thank me one day when they are adults for being such a great parent, and not a naive one.

IMO a kid that wants to go to a mall or anywhere else alone with friends under the age of 16 is up to no good. That's when you don't want them to go (when THEY want to do it). Those kids are smart and know exactly what they are doing.


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## kathywiehl (Dec 9, 2003)

When I was between 7th and 8th grade, two classmates who were 12 and 13 were dropped off at the mall. They got into a car with two 18 year old boys who took them home and raped/killed them then left them on the side of the road in a ditch.

I know I keep replying to this, but I keep remembering reasons to be very very careful with this sort of thing.


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rainyday* 
Wow. Where do you live? Every place I've lived has had lots of teens at the mall. In fact a good portion of the mall stores are aimed at teens, so if they weren't allowed to be there alone, a lot of those stores would go under!

So that makes it okay?







All other parents are trusting their teens to loiter at the local mall, oh well why not. lol. Geez. God I feel sorry for teens that have nothing better to do than loiter and hang out and waste the most precious time in their lives.


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## kathywiehl (Dec 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy68* 
exactly. I wonder all the time how much more stupid _could_ my parents have been. I know for a fact my mother was just naive. My dad, well he just didn't care. Times are much, much worse now. Just watch MTV for 10 minutes out of any given time of day and you will see that.







Kids think they know it all now and are doing everything at a MUCH younger age. I'm so glad I'm not one of those "naive" moms who think their child is just fine with a cell phone because they are their perfect, can do nothing wrong child. I WAS that child and I know all too well what a kid can do behind their parents back. My kids will thank me one day when they are adults for being such a great parent, and not a naive one.

IMO a kid that wants to go to a mall or anywhere else alone with friends under the age of 18 is up to no good. That's when you don't want them to go (when THEY want to do it).

Sounds like we have lots in common. I often say my parents didn't parent me past the age of 10. I did some pretty scary stuff through my teen years and it's mostly cause my parents didn't pay attention. My mom was naive and stressed and my dad was distracted with girlfriends and basically gave up on me since I was such a handful. I can't believe some of the stuff they allowed me to do. It's really a wonder I didn't have my oldest dd five years earlier or get raped, murdered, or OD.

Because I know what's out there, I'm watching for it. Not expecting it, but knowing what is out there, what the red flags look like and listening to my mama instinct constantly.

Someday my kids will thank me too.


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabemoms* 
I heard on the radio this morning that an 11-year-old got sexually assaulted and threatened with murder when she was walking home from a friend's house.... at *THREE O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING*!!!!! What is a child of that age doing outside at that time of day???







:

I agree. The fact that parents are *allowing* their kids to be out at that time of night totally unsupervised is terrible. The parents should be charged and put in jail for neglect. Yeah sure, at the age of 13-15 I was out roaming the streets sometimes at 4:00am with my friends, did my parents know about it? h*ll no! I was a smart kid and so were my friends. I knew how to get my parents to let me sleep over with the friends who had the naive parents who never knew they were climbing in and out of their windows all night long, lol. I was totally lying to my parents when I was a teen and they never knew it! But...to think that parents are actually "_allowing_" their kids to be so loose/free in this day and time is so scary and sad. Why do some parents feel the need to fit in with what other parents are doing or want to be cool in their child's eyes? Be the parent.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy68* 
how can a cell phone help if someone drags her to their car by gunpoint? Just curious.

I am not the person you quoted, but I have to say that I see this stuff a lot during discussions like this and it always makes me scratch my head a little. Sure, these awful things do happen and it is a tragedy. However, I can't base every single thing I do or that my kids do on such things.









I realize the crime stats and the environments are different from place to place. (Like there is a difference in "feel" from small town Wisconsin to Manhattan or Miami) So maybe in one area different considerations are needed. But in general I find that a cell phone is a handy way to keep in touch with my kids when they are out and about. I'm not of the fantasy that it's some mystical anti- tragedy device, but it's nice just the same.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy68* 

IMO a kid that wants to go to a mall or anywhere else alone with friends under the age of 16 is up to no good. That's when you don't want them to go (when THEY want to do it). Those kids are smart and know exactly what they are doing.


I totally and completely disagree. My children have proven time and time again that they are very trustworthy and capable of good decision making with me or without me around. (I have had many people comment about them in a positive way about something that happened or just about them when I wasn't there.)

Also it may be a difference in how you were raised/raise kids yourself, but my kids don't need to sneak or hide things from me at all. We talk about many things together including sex, drugs/alcohol, safety, relationships, and etc. My son went to get a soda from the corner store yesterday night. It was after the town set curfew for minors, and we've talked about it. At this point we've decided that the risk of him getting stopped by a cop is minimal, and that even if he does we are willing to deal with it and go from there. No sneaking needed.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy68* 
But...to think that parents are actually "_allowing_" their kids to be so loose/free in this day and time is so scary and sad. Why do some parents feel the need to fit in with what other parents are doing or want to be cool in their child's eyes? Be the parent.

Some families work in a totally different way than you seem to be familiar with. There is a way that doesn't really have a lot of prohibiting, punishing, fear, sneaking, lying, or bribing going on but instead allows for open talking, honesty, trust, and working together to find good ground to stand on together.

I may or may not be comfortable with something my teen is wanting to do. My kids and I do not always see eye to eye because we are individuals with different thoughts and past experiences shaping us. If we disagree we talk and we work things out. We have a base of trust to work from though, and it's been built over the years. I think the assumption that anyone who is parenting this way, or in a way different from you, is just _needing to fit in_ or _trying to be cool_ is very inaccurate.


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## wendyland (Apr 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kathywiehl* 
When I was between 7th and 8th grade, two classmates who were 12 and 13 were dropped off at the mall. They got into a car with two 18 year old boys who took them home and raped/killed them then left them on the side of the road in a ditch.

I know I keep replying to this, but I keep remembering reasons to be very very careful with this sort of thing.

My exhusband's girlfriend was murdered when they were 18. Something along the line of what happened to your classmates. He's very paranoid about the girls, but we have to allow them some freedom. I had too much freedom at a young age, but I was fairly responsible. That's not to say there weren't situations where I put myself in danger. I want my girls to learn to trust their instincts and not put themselves in bad situations.


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## nicole lisa (Oct 27, 2004)

A big







: to everything UnschoolinMa posted. I wasn't very physically supervised as a teen and I hung out at arcades and went to movies with my friends alone at 13 and I didn't make shitty choices. I didn't have a need to rebel or sneak or lie. My parents and I talked openly about everything so there was no need to. And they weren't trying to be cool; they just respected and trusted us and we returned it. Drinking, drugs, sex none of those were something to hide from a parent but things to discuss with a parent. Did my parents ever disapprove of my choices? Sure but never in a way that shamed or punished me so I felt I had to sneak from then on. I think the way I turned out and the safe ways I chose to drink, get high and have sex (not as all at once as that sounds!) has a lot to do with my parents. The friends I had who were always mistrusted by parents with attitudes close to what I've heard on this thread didn't fare as well; they weren't taught to trust themselves to make smart decisions.


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## crazydiamond (May 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicole lisa* 
A big







: to everything UnschoolinMa posted. I wasn't very physically supervised as a teen and I hung out at arcades and went to movies with my friends alone at 13 and I didn't make shitty choices. I didn't have a need to rebel or sneak or lie. My parents and I talked openly about everything so there was no need to. And they weren't trying to be cool; they just respected and trusted us and we returned it. Drinking, drugs, sex none of those were something to hide from a parent but things to discuss with a parent. Did my parents ever disapprove of my choices? Sure but never in a way that shamed or punished me so I felt I had to sneak from then on. I think the way I turned out and the safe ways I chose to drink, get high and have sex (not as all at once as that sounds!) has a lot to do with my parents. The friends I had who were always mistrusted by parents with attitudes close to what I've heard on this thread didn't fare as well; they weren't taught to trust themselves to make smart decisions.


It _is_ possible for a child to do exactly what you did. Absolutely. But it's no guarantee.

In my case, I was raised by the same type of parents. And I still had sex for the first time at age 12 in the mall bathroom. I was one of those kids that had to try everything. It's my personality. My motto has always been: an opportunity that passes you by is an opportunity wasted. I just had to try drugs, drink alcohol, and have sex when the opportunity presented itself. Unfortunately for me, those opportunities presented themselves when I was quite young. But making those choices doesn't mean I lived in fear from my parents or that my parents didn't trust me. It just means I have an adventurous personality and would have done those things anyway. . .I just wish I hadn't had the chance until I was a little older. And even though I went straight home and told my parents about getting drunk at 13, it doesn't make what I did acceptable.

I'm still that way, actually. I just now choose not to do drugs, drink alcohol, or have sex with random men because I've been there done that and didn't like it. But I still am game for anything else that comes my way (sky diving, bungee jumping, etc). Some things are just personality-based, not parenting-based.


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## nicole lisa (Oct 27, 2004)

You're right part of it probably does come down to personality. I also have a try anything once personality but I don't see my past choices as unfortunate and I was always very good about staying in control and safe while trying whatever. I've never regretted anything I did as a teen and I did a lot. I also learned a lot from it all. And I do think it has as much to do with the parenting I received as my personality. My parents and I just loved and still love long open discussions about what we're up to, have been up to or are thinking of being up to and how it has effected or is effecting us so as much time I spent out I spent an equal time sitting in the kitchen or on the couch or with a parent on the edge of my bed dissecting my choices. It wasn't just blanket freedom to do whatever I wanted. My parents were 100% involved in my life even if they weren't physically with me but that's because I wanted them there - they were invited to be as much a part of my life as I was theirs.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicole lisa* 
I think the way I turned out and the safe ways I chose to drink, get high and have sex (not as all at once as that sounds!) has a lot to do with my parents. The friends I had who were always mistrusted by parents with attitudes close to what I've heard on this thread didn't fare as well; they weren't taught to trust themselves to make smart decisions.

I don't understand how not letting a young child roam equates to not trusting them - or sending the message that you don't trust them.







I wasn't allowed to roam around by myself and I wasn't allowed to go to the mall by myself until I was 14 or so. I always knew it wasn't about my mother's trust for me but, rather, about the rest of the world. And I managed to grow up to make good choices, trust myself, etc. I actually managed to grow up to be someone who feels comfortable taking risks but does so without being reckless.

I guess I just think kids are smart enough to distinguish between "I don't trust you to make good choices" and "The world at large isn't set up to be navigated by a child your age, so I'm going to help you until you get older."


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## nicole lisa (Oct 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy68* 
exactly. I wonder all the time how much more stupid _could_ my parents have been. I know for a fact my mother was just naive. My dad, well he just didn't care. Times are much, much worse now. Just watch MTV for 10 minutes out of any given time of day and you will see that.







Kids think they know it all now and are doing everything at a MUCH younger age. I'm so glad I'm not one of those "naive" moms who think their child is just fine with a cell phone because they are their perfect, can do nothing wrong child. *I WAS that child and I know all too well what a kid can do behind their parents back. My kids will thank me one day when they are adults for being such a great parent, and not a naive one.

IMO a kid that wants to go to a mall or anywhere else alone with friends under the age of 16 is up to no good. That's when you don't want them to go (when THEY want to do it). Those kids are smart and know exactly what they are doing.*


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dragonfly* 
I don't understand how not letting a young child roam equates to not trusting them - or sending the message that you don't trust them.







I wasn't allowed to roam around by myself and I wasn't allowed to go to the mall by myself until I was 14 or so. I always knew it wasn't about my mother's trust for me but, rather, about the rest of the world.


I was speaking specifically of posts like the one above, especially the bolded part.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Sure, personality is a factor. We all have different things that we just "come with". But I strive to be respectful while helping my kids be safe, and I think that some of the approaches/things said about kids here are just not. Specifically posts like Mommy68 where kids who are alone under 16 are automatically just up to no good...doesn't work for me at all.


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## katharinerose (Oct 22, 2007)

So I don't have kids yet, but I've worked with them a lot. There comes a point, and it's different for everyone, where you are going to do what you're going to do, regardless of what your parents think is appropriate. That may come at 12 or at 25. At that point, if your kid wants to go out and have sex or drink or get a tattoo or join a church, they're gonna find a way to do it. Adolescents ARE smart, and capable of so much. Unless you are willing to never let your child out of your sight, they are going to make choices without you, and probably some choices you don't like. Hopefully, you've done your best to give them the tools to make good choices, helped them develop relationships with peers who will support those good choices, and built up trust so they know that you will be there if they make a choice they regret.


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## kathywiehl (Dec 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *katharinerose* 
So I don't have kids yet, but I've worked with them a lot. There comes a point, and it's different for everyone, where you are going to do what you're going to do, regardless of what your parents think is appropriate. That may come at 12 or at 25. At that point, if your kid wants to go out and have sex or drink or get a tattoo or join a church, they're gonna find a way to do it. Adolescents ARE smart, and capable of so much. Unless you are willing to never let your child out of your sight, they are going to make choices without you, and probably some choices you don't like. Hopefully, you've done your best to give them the tools to make good choices, helped them develop relationships with peers who will support those good choices, and built up trust so they know that you will be there if they make a choice they regret.

I agree with you to a point, but I think there is something to be said for not exposing them to things that would cause them to make certain choices until they are old enough to make the right choices. Kids with no supervision have the potential to meet so many different kinds of people who can influence their decisions and give them ideas about doing things they never would have thought of on their own. I agree you can't stop them completely, but I guarantee that if my parents had not dropped me off with questionable people and left me unsupervised 90% of the time, I'd not have made so many choices that I did make.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy68* 
IMO a kid that wants to go to a mall or anywhere else alone with friends under the age of 16 is up to no good. That's when you don't want them to go (when THEY want to do it). Those kids are smart and know exactly what they are doing.









:
What kind of "no good" do you think they're up to? I was in the mall by myself and/or with friends or my sister a lot as a preteen and early teen, and I wasn't up to anything. I just liked to wander around, maybe check out some boys, eat french fries in the food court and chat about stuff. Several of my friends wanted to window shop and/or try on clothes. Being under 16 doesn't mean someone's automatically up to something.

Why wouldn't a teen want to go somewhere with their friends? And - again - why "16' - what makes that an age where wanting to be alone with friends no longer means they're up to no good?

I don't know - maybe malls are different here or something.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

My kids enjoy going to the mall to eat, play video games, browse the bookstore, see if there are any good games in the discount bin at the gamestop, and etc. Often they go together, or Dd will be with her best friend (they are both 14) because they enjoy the company. Sometimes they see a movie too because the theatre is very close to the mall. They have run into friends or aquaintances there from time to time and they'll chat a little bit if they want to, or steer clear if they don't. Once they even managed to get a picture with the mall security guard while they were doing a photo "scavenger hunt". He thought it was good fun.

We usually agree that someone will call me when they get there and when they are about to head home, if plans change, and etc. We often discuss what time they plan to be back beforehand anyway. The mall and kids just seem to go hand in hand a lot. Not every kid/teen enjoys it, but many do. I can't imagine making it off limits or assuming a kid hanging at the mall is bent on self (or otherwise) destruction.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa* 
My kids enjoy going to the mall to eat, play video games, *browse the bookstore*, see if there are any good games in the discount bin at the gamestop, and etc. .

I can't believe I forgot the bookstore. I loved the bookstore when I was in my early teens...could have lived there quite happily.

I have to admit that while I never got up to anything worse than having a smoke at the mall, I got up to a lot of other stuff at school. I feel much safer letting ds1 roam the mall than I do about him being at school.


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## KBecks (Jan 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicole lisa* 
I know! Malls would close if teens weren't allowed to hang in them.

A mall in our area recently started a policy requiring adult supervision for kids under 18 on Friday and Saturday evenings, it may be weekday evenings too - like after 5 p.m. or so. There were concerns about fights, gangs of kids who were essentially loitering and not there to shop, etc. The policy came after an incident when a gun was tossed from a balcony down on to the first floor. Thank God it didn't go off.

I think it's an OK policy given those issues. Teens are allowed in the mall during other hours. The mall originally started closing at 5 on Saturdays but then they switched to the supervision rule. They also stepped up security a TON following the gun incident. It is a very popular upscale mall and they don't want to lose the business, and teens are only a portion of the big spenders there.


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## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

When I had just turned SIX, my father was an exhibitor in a home-computer show in a medium-sized mall. He brought me along. While he was working in his booth, I was allowed to wander that end of the mall (about 8 stores), ride on the nearby escalators, or sit by the fountain around the corner. I was not allowed to go into the department stores, stay upstairs (having ridden the escalator up, I was to come straight back down), or leave the building. If any adult told me to quit doing something (touching merchandise, etc.) I was to obey. The restroom was far away, so when I had to go I came to get my dad to take me into the men's room.

This worked out fine. Nobody made the slightest attempt to kidnap me, molest me, push LSD on me, or sell me into slavery. Nobody even "bothered" me. I had a lot of fun browsing the stores, watching the people, and drawing or reading on a bench by the fountain. I misbehaved slightly a few times but stopped when someone told me to. Only two bad things happened:
1. I left my bag unattended by the fountain when I went to show my dad a drawing I had made, and it was stolen.
2. Standing on the ledge next to the Up escalator and pushing my hands on the railing (pretending I was making it go), I forgot to let go and found myself riding up the outside of the escalator. When I did let go, I fell and skinned my knee.
Both of these were learning experiences. #1 led my dad to apologize for not telling me to keep my bag with me and to demonstrate how we make a police report. I never recovered the bag, which contained a favorite book, and felt the loss acutely. #2 brought a few strangers running to see if I was okay and walking me back to my dad.

*It all depends on the child and the place*, but in general the idea of an 8-year-old being unsupervised in public is fine with me. I see kids that young walking around alone or in small groups in my neighborhood sometimes. I wouldn't let a kid violate any posted policy against unsupervised children, though. In a mall, specifically, I think it's important to have a specific time and place to meet, and the younger the child the more often you check in. I wouldn't let a child younger than about 13 wander a mall if I wasn't in the same mall myself.


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## shayinme (Jan 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy68* 
IMO a kid that wants to go to a mall or anywhere else alone with friends under the age of 16 is up to no good. That's when you don't want them to go (when THEY want to do it). Those kids are smart and know exactly what they are doing.

How old are your kids? My son turns 16 in a few weeks and has been going to the mall with friends since he was 14. Frankly there is not a lot for young teens to do and many like to go to hang out. My son likes to hang out at the food court and talk with friends and just hang. Attitudes like yours are why teens feel unvalued, my son has told me how people are suspiciois of teens and the funny thing is today's teens have alot more money than I did as a teen so a lot of times they go to the mall to shop.

Sorry but as my son would say attitudes like this are just wack. Funny thing as my son turns 16 he is now interested in getting a job, so he can get a car..

My parents thought they kept a close eye on me and I still got into trouble, I think as parents especially of teens we can be too protective, but as I remind myself in 2 years this kid will be a legal adult, that remimds me that he needs room to grow.

Shay


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

probably at around age 18. If my dd's were going together with some girlfriends that I knew and trusted, maybe 16.


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## moonshoes (Jun 1, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicole lisa* 
DS is 7 and if we're at the mall together and having a snack and he has to use the washroom he goes through the mall to the washroom and back on his own while I stay at the table. I'd be OK with him going to a store in the mall on his own if he had a desire to. When we're in a department store and I'm looking at clothes he'll often go to the toy section alone and browse for a bit. he does that in the grocery store as well as I shop.

I'm sorry, did you say _seven???_ I find that a bit














- I'm sure he is trustworthy and the chance of something happening to him small, but I can't imagine taking that chance with such a young child who does not have the cognitive capabilities of an adult. Yikes.


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## glendora (Jan 24, 2005)

Jeez. Am I the only person here that hung out at the mall just to hang out? I never drank or smoked or had sex at the mall. I walked around and gossiped with my friends and ate at the food court (coooookies).


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## darsmama (Jul 23, 2004)

18.


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## RockStarMom (Sep 11, 2005)

Probably around 13.
Kinda shocked by the lower and upper extremes.







:


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshoes* 
I'm sorry, did you say _seven???_ I find that a bit














- I'm sure he is trustworthy and the chance of something happening to him small, but I can't imagine taking that chance with such a young child who does not have the cognitive capabilities of an adult. Yikes.

DS1 did all those things at 7, as well. What chance were we taking?

Honestly, I had ds1 on a distressingly short leash by my own standards. My sister and I were catching buses across town to go to the movies when we were only about 6 and 7. I was way to uptight to give ds1 that freedom...


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## mamajama (Oct 12, 2002)

Wow. Quite a variety of opinions on this








18 just blows me away though. That just seems over the top. There are kids that move away to college at 17 and 18. I moved out of my mom's house at 17.









I started working when I was 13 in the mall food-court. I had an absolute blast. I'm just gonna feel it out with my kids. My almost 8yr old still wants me to walk him to the bathroom in small restaurants so I can't see him wanting to wander the mall quite yet. I think that when he's ready to, that's when he'll ask to and we'll just take it from there.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
DS1 did all those things at 7, as well. What chance were we taking?

Some pervert getting hold of him in the men's room? That isn't actually a rare occurrence, from what I gather.


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## KBecks (Jan 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dragonfly* 
Some pervert getting hold of him in the men's room? That isn't actually a rare occurrence, from what I gather.

This is a huge fear of mine. I will probably stand outside the restroom door and listen for the boys, or send them in together (and stand outside the door listening).


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dragonfly* 
Some pervert getting hold of him in the men's room? That isn't actually a rare occurrence, from what I gather.

I've heard of it happening online a few times, but never encountered it irl. My nephew and ds1 both used the washroom in the mall when they were that age, and I see kids going in and out of there all the time. I've never quite understood why the perverts would take a chance on a public washroom as a venue, actually - it's not like there aren't random people going in and out all the time.

Anyway - I personally know at least 10 people who were molested on school property, yet nobody thought I was irresponsible to let ds1 go to kindergarten...at age 5. I know nobody who's ever been molested, attacked or anything else in a mall, but letting my 8 year old play in the toy aisle is risky?

I think this one is one I'm just not going to grasp.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Holy moly... 18? That seriously makes me confused. Many teens are working and driving at that age. So the year they can go off to college and live alone is the year they can finally walk around the mall?? Am I understanding that correctly?







:


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## shayinme (Jan 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa* 
Holy moly... 18? That seriously makes me confused. Many teens are working and driving at that age. So the year they can go off to college and live alone is the year they can finally walk around the mall?? Am I understanding that correctly?







:

I was thinking the same thing.. at 18 they are legally adults, I hope the folks who said 18 were joking. Even 16 seems a little late considering that at 16 in most states last I checked a teen can get a drivers license, seems to me if a teen can legally drive a 3000lb piece of machinery that maybe a year or two before that happens they can be intrusted to go to the mall. Just me though.

Shay


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa* 
Holy moly... 18? That seriously makes me confused. Many teens are working and driving at that age. So the year they can go off to college and live alone is the year they can finally walk around the mall?? Am I understanding that correctly?







:

Yeah - that kind of threw me, too. My 18 year old nephew is working for a pile driving company...seems a lot more risky than walking through a food court, yk?


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## siobhang (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kathywiehl* 
I did plenty of drinking, smoking, and getting high at the mall. We'd just go outside and pass stuff around and then go back into the mall to hang out and watch the boys play video games.

Just wanted to say that we used to do this AT SCHOOL.

Oh and at friend's houses, sometimes with the parents upstairs - who were usually clueless. "we're just studying!".

OH, and the library was a great place too to sneak cigarettes.

And the girl who was the biggest instigator of all the rebellion was a girl scout until age 15. Our class president was the biggest druggie of anyone in the class.

My point is that if kids want to rebel and do bad things (tm), they will find a way. Period.


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## madskye (Feb 20, 2006)

My daughter is only two...my neighbors kids are 12 and they seem independent and mature enough to handle an hour or two at the mall on their own, or in a group of friends. Their daughter is eight, and she still seems young to me--though I think she could handle a bathroom break on her own.

I used to go to the mall with friends (I live in NJ, for pete's sake, it's what we do here!!) and I never smoke or drank or much of anything risque there. I ate pizza in the foodcourt, and checked out cute boys, and pined for expensive Capezio shoes and Guess jeans that I couldn't afford. Lots of giggling with my girlfriends.


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## imatulip (Nov 18, 2007)

If i were in the mall, I might let them walk ahead, but no, not dropping an 8 yo, or even a 10 yo off at the mall to just hang out. I think they have better things to do with their time.


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

I grew up in a town of about 20,000 including the college. I rode bikes with a friend or a few friends (not alone) up I don't know half a mile? to the gas station to spend my allowance on candy, pizza, junk when I was 8. Maybe 9.

Rode halfway across town to the pool for the first time at 8 too but that was not with permission exactly







WITH PERMISSION I know I did it the summer I was 101/2. (I remember riding the 10 speed bike and I got that for my 10th b-day in Sept.)

as far as playing outside in the neighborhood, I know we were doing that at like 4-5, basically whenever you were old enough to know to stay out of the road. But like someone said in my neighborhood everyone knew each other, there were people keeping an eye out wherever you were. You weren't truly UNSUPERVISED if you were out of YOUR parents' sight.

where I live now, it would really depend a lot on what part of town I lived in and how far the closest park was how young they'd get to do that.
as far as playing out in the neighborhood---current neighborhood, if Z was in kindergarten at the school across the street I'd let him go over there and play with me having my window open to hear/see what's going on--I've got a direct view of the playground. but there are some potty-mouth kids that come around there, we'd have to have the understanding that he has to come home when the older kids come out.

the mall here, well, I was 13 or 14 the first time my parents dropped me and a friend off at the mall. (this is the mall in the town I live in now, over 120,000) I think i was 13 and friend 12. My friend's mom was PO'ed and thought we were too young then!
She went with us to that mall and another slightly smaller one, stayed in the mall shopping elsewhere until we were old enough to drive OURSELVES I think--and we are talking drive out of town at least an hour so I think we were actually 18 LOL.

Wandering the mall with the parents in another store or something, we did that in our small-town malls at maybe 9-10?

I think too it all depends on your kid and where you live. My current mall in this town, if I had a kid I could totally trust to not do anything stupid or be meeting up with any other kids who would be doing anything stupid, I'd say they could be out of my sight in a mall starting at probably 12.

to go there themselves, when they can drive there probably. I *might* consider a drop-off and pick-up at 13-14. It's more that I don't see a NEED to go wander around the mall, you just don't know what might happen, who they might run into, or they might find out their trusted friend is a klepto when they get caught somewhere. (I would HOPE my kid would resist peer pressure to join in that activity, but that is another thing you don't know--if you are IN the mall, it would be easier for them to leave and find you than if they've got to call you and have you come across town to pick them up? and the idea that the parent is there would curb that kind of activity?)

I figure if I'm trusting them with a car, then they can also be trusted to use good judgment on where they go and what they do with the car. Otherwise why am I allowing them to drive??


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

With a friend? 14 or so.

Completely alone? 16 or older.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

I just had to pop in on this thread today. Dd and her best friend (both of them are 14) are at a very large out of town mall today. Best Friend's mother had some work to do in a building in the same neighborhood as the mall, and because we don't often drive the two hour distance to visit this mall the girls took the opportunity to be dropped off there while the mom works. She'll be back to pick them up later on today.

Dd has a cell phone, some money, and I encouraged the girls to stay together, stay inside the mall, and arrange a place to come back to if they should get seperated. She just talked to Dh and she's doing well. They are at Hot Topic having fun.

Anyway, timely....


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## EStraiton (Sep 6, 2005)

My 13 year old daughter is not allowed to even go to the mall alone with a friend... nevermind walk alone by herself. I think we have to be very careful as parents when it comes to things like this.


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

We were allowed to "hang out" at the mall without supervision around 13 or so and WHAT were my parents thinking??? I HATED it but my best friend always insisted. We were harassed by boys and grown men all the time. It was scary and I certainly wasn't ready for it. It was all I could do on many occasions to talk my friend out of leaving with some of these guys (she had a history of childhood sexual abuse and spent a lot of time seeking approval from older men in a way that still makes my blood run cold).

It's not that I wouldn't necessarily trust my daughter - as someone has already said, if she decides to get up to some trouble making she's going to find a way - but I don't necessarily trust every single other person she may come in contact with. As an adult, it's still shocking to me how much sexual attention we were getting as 12, 13, 14 year olds and just how bad my friend's judgment could be.


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

I would say AT LEAST 20.

haha, just kidding. I'm pretty shocked by the 18 year old responses. 18 is a typical year for going to college and living in dorms. So the same age they go and live completely on their own is the age where they can walk around a mall alone?!?!?

WILL SOMEONE WHO SAID "18" EXPLAIN PLEASE! Sorry, not shouting, but just hoping that someone will elaborate, and see this.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Just wanted to update that Dd's out of town mall visit with her best friend went really well. They were able to visit several stores we don't have at our mall, and they ate at places our food court doesn't have. She called me a few times while she was there, and was home in the afternoon.


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## shayinme (Jan 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa* 
Just wanted to update that Dd's out of town mall visit with her best friend went really well. They were able to visit several stores we don't have at our mall, and they ate at places our food court doesn't have. She called me a few times while she was there, and was home in the afternoon.









Glad she had a good time.









Shay


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

This reminded me:

Quote:

They got into a car with two 18 year old boys who took them home and raped/killed them then left them on the side of the road in a ditch.

I know three people who were kidnapped from malls. One was an adult (who was also pregnant),another was college-aged and one of my co-workers, and a third was a classmate I didn't know well. These were, essentially, grown women (three seperate malls, btw). The one who was pregnant was forced into her trunk in the middle of the afternoon, raped, and left in the trunk. The coworker was forced into her car by someone with a gun and she eventually managed to dive out of her car at a stoplight. The classmate was leaving a mall with her boyfriend when some guy with a badge told her her parents had been in an accident. He had a lot of details and a badge so she got in his car. The boyfriend tried to follow and couldn't keep up. The guy dropped her off two weeks later in another state and she has never really recovered. He pulled her fingernails off, among many horrible things.

I am not that person who believes every email forward and every urban legend or rumor and I have no plans to construct a special bubble for my kid







, but these are thee people I KNOW in three different malls I've been to. Grown women. So while I won't make the mall off limits, I won't be dropping my kid off unattended either.

Also, having worked in several malls...I know just how cruddy the security can be. I am sure there are some really great people out there who are very dedicated, but there are a lot of guys hiding in the fire corridors and smoking.


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## huggerwocky (Jun 21, 2004)

I think 9-10 with a friend is fine. And a cell phone


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## moonshoes (Jun 1, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NiteNicole* 
This reminded me:

I know three people who were kidnapped from malls. One was an adult (who was also pregnant),another was college-aged and one of my co-workers, and a third was a classmate I didn't know well. These were, essentially, grown women (three seperate malls, btw). The one who was pregnant was forced into her trunk in the middle of the afternoon, raped, and left in the trunk. The coworker was forced into her car by someone with a gun and she eventually managed to dive out of her car at a stoplight. The classmate was leaving a mall with her boyfriend when some guy with a badge told her her parents had been in an accident. He had a lot of details and a badge so she got in his car. The boyfriend tried to follow and couldn't keep up. The guy dropped her off two weeks later in another state and she has never really recovered. He pulled her fingernails off, among many horrible things.

I am not that person who believes every email forward and every urban legend or rumor and I have no plans to construct a special bubble for my kid







, but these are thee people I KNOW in three different malls I've been to. Grown women. So while I won't make the mall off limits, I won't be dropping my kid off unattended either.

Also, having worked in several malls...I know just how cruddy the security can be. I am sure there are some really great people out there who are very dedicated, but there are a lot of guys hiding in the fire corridors and smoking.

That is so scary, twisted and sad.


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## cycle (Nov 18, 2004)

I know I am a little late in the thread - I read it a couple of days ago and wasn't able to respond then.

My friends and I started going to the mall at about 12 or 13, there was two - four of us usually. This was about 20 years ago and we lived in an upper-middle class "safe" neighborhood. I cannot even remember all of the incidents we had while hanging out at the mall. There were at least 5 times that older men flashed us or were masturbating so we could see. We were followed and approached A LOT by much older boys and men, we were followed into the women's bathroom more than once. We met and hung out with much older guys, even leaving the mall with them and returning before our parent's came to pick us up.









I was talking to my oldest friend tonight on the phone, she and I did a lot of mall hanging out, and we both agreed that we would never let our kids go hang at the mall. Of course when they are old enough to drive themselves then they can go, I just see nothing good that can come out of kids hanging out at the mall. When we think about what could have happened to us it is frightening, I can't believe nothing really bad never happened to any of us. Mall security was a joke, they were some of the older guys who hit on us.

I just don't think the mall is a place for kids to hang out, I think I have mall prejudice because I don't think I'll have a problem with ds or any future kids hanging out at 12 or 13 at a skating rink or the movies or something like that. There is an activity there, where at the mall there is just hanging out and there seems to be more time and room for things to go wrong. I am not saying something like what I mentioned couldn't happen at the movies or skating, but I just feel like its less likely, the environment is a bit more controlled.


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## lisarussell (Jan 24, 2005)

newmommy- where do you live, it's so interesting the differences in different areas.

i let my 14 and 11 yr old walk the mall for the first time last week while i went to the bookstore for a cup of coffee and an hour browsing through the latest mothering magazine.


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## Chimpaz (Jan 3, 2008)

I am assuming a mall is the same as a shopping centre???

Anyway, my kids will never be allowed to just hang out at a shopping centre, not until they are 18 and can drive there themselves.


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## cycle (Nov 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lisarussell* 
newmommy- where do you live, it's so interesting the differences in different areas.

i let my 14 and 11 yr old walk the mall for the first time last week while i went to the bookstore for a cup of coffee and an hour browsing through the latest mothering magazine.

It sounds like you were there in the mall, this to me is a bit different than dropping your kids off to hang out at the mall. I would let dc walk with a friend without me at that age if I were in the mall.

I was with family over the holidays and my cousin, a boy, is 13. It wasn't until this visit that I would have ever been comfortable with him being on his own in the mall, even with us in the mall. He is still too young to be left at the mall with friends, there is no way my aunt would do that, but he can go to stores alone and then meet up with us, within reason. I don't know, he just doesn't have the street smarts that we had at 13.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cycle* 
It sounds like you were there in the mall, this to me is a bit different than dropping your kids off to hang out at the mall. I would let dc walk with a friend without me at that age if I were in the mall.

What's the situation with public transit in everyone's area? I've seen several references to "dropping the kids off" at the mall, and I find it really strange. I was going to the mall by myself (or with a friend or my sister) at about age 12 or so...on the bus.

I was wandering around the mall, with my mom there, at an early age - can't remember exactly when, but definitely young. I know they once thought they'd lost me at about age 11. I'd curled up under a bench to read a book, then dozed off.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
What's the situation with public transit in everyone's area? I've seen several references to "dropping the kids off" at the mall, and I find it really strange. I was going to the mall by myself (or with a friend or my sister) at about age 12 or so...on the bus.

I was wandering around the mall, with my mom there, at an early age - can't remember exactly when, but definitely young. I know they once thought they'd lost me at about age 11. I'd curled up under a bench to read a book, then dozed off.

Yeah - I'm not sure where I sit on this issue yet, but I do think public transportation, bikes, etc., make a huge difference. Not just because they give kids mobility to GET somewhere but because they give them mobility to LEAVE if things are getting uncomfortable.

I was allowed to bike to the library, local tiny mall, etc., around age 8 or 9. My friend and I used to go downtown together on the streetcar to participate in a Sat morning programme at age 9 (attendence was taken). By 11 I was allowed at the bigger mall two subway stops away and by 13 to the big downtown mall. The rule was that I always had to have a) change for the pay phone and b) tickets to get home. Oh and a key.









I would worry less about my child at a mall where there are store staff and other shoppers than going to the library alone on the street, but I do hope he is able to do both. All those experiences have added up over my life and being confident in travelling alone - and knowing how to evaluate situations - have been a real boon to me!

There are always horrific experiences but those things happen everywhere. I don't think malls are any more prone to them overall... although I did think Gavin DeBecker's statement that a high percentage of murderers and molesters have worked as security staff have made me rethink what security really means.


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