# Ethics, morals and diapers! Do they affect your shopping?



## spatulagirl

So I was thinking yesterday about companies I don't buy from based on their politics or practices I don't agree with, and realized I didn't really do the same thing with diaper-making companies/WAHMs.

I like that I am supporting small business with WAHMs and that is really important to me. I haven't actively boycotted any WAHM but then I realized I don't do a lot of research about who I am buying from! Not like I do with a lot of other things. I don't know if this is good or bad and it has been bothering me a bit. As I said, I love that my money is supporting a mom and her family, but then I wonder if I should look at the bigger picture.

So, I want to know if you apply the same decision making when shopping for diapers as you might when shopping for other things. No naming names of course!


----------



## Leilalu

I do, to a certain extent









I guess if something strikes me, I may not buy from them. Then, as far as the bigger picture goes, were I a purist I would have to boycott most people







That would'nt get me anywhere!:LOL

I like that I am supporting WAHM's too. I think, for WAHM's, I am more forgiving. Because no matter what their beliefs, they and their kids have basic needs like all of us.


----------



## vkberes

You have a good point and I have thought about this before but never took action beyond that. I guess it is easy to assume that just because someone makes diapers they practice nfl or gentle parenting to some degree but that is a big assumption. How do you really find out otherwise? I have not bought from people that I am suspicious about their practices and I guess that can be unfair but I also don't feel comfortable asking them a lot of questions about their personal values.


----------



## wawoof

Ethics have a big effect on my diaper shopping. The main thing is, I CD primarily for environmental reasons. Therefore, I don't want anything in my stash that is environmentally destructive to care for - in other works, things need to get clean with a reasonable wash routine and be pretty quick drying. I would ideally like to only use organic dipes from WAHMs, but that isn't a financially feasible option for me. Also, one of my CDing goals is to convert other mamas to using CDs - therefore I tend to avoid CDing items that are hard to get, because this would totally turn off a newbie, IMO. So unfortunatley I have a conflict between my goal of converting others to CDing and my goal of supporting WAHMs, because so many WAHM items are hard to get.


----------



## Marco Esquandolas

Yes, there is a certain pocket dipe I will never buy b/c I didn't care for business practices. Other than that, I doubt I'd even know if I was inadvertantly supporting something I wouldn't want to support, kwim? Like, if a wahm donates her diaper money to some cause I'm against, how would I know? Beyond that, I buy hemp diapers b/c I'm very pro hemp.


----------



## ChristinaB

I don't look beyond the fact that the person is a WAHM supporting her family (or helping to support her family) and doing what I believe in more than anything and that is staying home with her child/children


----------



## jcw

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phishmama*
there is a certain pocket dipe I will never buy b/c I didn't care for business practices.

How does one find out about the business practices of these SAHMs/comapanies?


----------



## Momto2boysNagirl

I do.


----------



## supercrunch

I once saw that a WAHM donated a percentage of her proceeds to a rather radical environmental organization, and I must admit I haven't shopped there since.


----------



## Kari_mom

I do consider business practices when I chose diapers to buy. I am probably more stringent with WAHMs that large corporations because I believe that it is easier for a small company to operate ethically than a large company, and it is easier to avoid a certain WAHM than to avoid a larger corporation in my daily buying decisions.

I have chosen to not purchased diapers made by WAHMs who are not AP. One of the benefits of belonging to the diapering community is that it is reasonably easy to find out personal information about them. Where and what they post tells me lots, and their websites give clues as well. You just get to know people from the boards.

I also have avoided WAHMs who appear to have stolen original designs, diapers and otherwise, from other businesses. Definitely not ethical in my book. I don't buy the "I am just a poor WAHM, it's ok for ME to skirt copyright issues, I need to feed my kids" arguement I've seen presented here.

I am trying to buy from WAHMs, big and small, when I can. I honestly find it frustrating. For example, I will look for t-shirts in size 18 mo and check with 5 WAHMs who sell t-shirts. Three will be out of stock in the size I need, one will be closed for babymooning, and the fifth will be priced out of my budget or require stalking. It makes it hard not to just hop in my minivan and run to Target, you know?

I am interested in reading what others have to say on this topic. I hadn't really thought it out before. I posted what I've realized I've done, not necessarily what I will do in the future after I think about it.

Good thread!


----------



## ShadowMom

There are certain things that will turn me off on a WAHM. It makes me less likely to buy from them.

There is a WAHM who publishes a list of people who bought stuff from her and didn't pay for it. Now, why would I, a consumer interested in her products, care about that? It comes off as being very petty and self-righteous... and misguided.

If a WAHM's web site was really religious (a lot of WAHM's quote the bible or make references to their religion, and that doesn't really turn me off - I'm talking about an overtly religious site) it would really turn me off to their product. When I'm shopping online and I come across a really religious site selling stuff, I feel that their target demographic is other people of the same religion, and that person is not me. Like I said, though, I'm not including just a few references like a lot of WAHM's have. I can't think of any diapering sites I've seen that are religious enough to make me feel weird.


----------



## ChristinaB

Thought about it more and nope, nothing would keep me from buying from a WAHM.


----------



## Danahen

I guess I'm pretty layed back :LOL . Unless I know of a WAHM that neglects/abuses her children, I'd buy from her (even if it's a religious or "radical" site). As long as it's not from a big company, I'm cool.


----------



## JohnnysGirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wawoof*
I don't want anything in my stash that is environmentally destructive to care for - in other works, things need to get clean with a reasonable wash routine and be pretty quick drying. .

Keep in mind that "environmentally destructive" (wow!-strong choice of words) is relative. Any laundering (short of beating items at the river with rocks) is not enhancing mother earth for subsequent generations, but in terms of a cloth diaper care routine being classified 'environmentally destructive' , I think even thick internal soaker fitteds are much kinder on the earth, even with more rinses required than say, flatfold diapers, and longer drying times, than the damage done to the earth via disposable diaper production and disposal. Just wanted to say I felt that your wording was rather harsh, and that mamas who believe strongly in helping the environment but don't only use flats & hang to dry, might take a slight offense at what you said.


----------



## LoveBaby

I like that I'm supporting WAHM's. I feel like even if they don't have the same practices/belief system that I do..I like that I am helping them stay at home w/ their babies. If I didn't support any body unless they were just like me, then I'd better get real good at sewing/canning/farming/accounting/ etc. I'd rather give my business to a WAHM who I don't have one single thing in common w/ than give my $$$ to gerber for cheap prefolds made in China.


----------



## ChristinaB

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Danahen*
I guess I'm pretty layed back :LOL . Unless I know of a WAHM that neglects/abuses her children, I'd buy from her (even if it's a religious or "radical" site). As long as it's not from a big company, I'm cool.

SAME HERE! I'd just rather the money go to the family and the WAHM for her (underpaid) hard work. I could care less what religion or whatever someone is, we all have at least one thing in common







To each his own I guess


----------



## LoveBaby

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Danahen*
I guess I'm pretty layed back :LOL . Unless I know of a WAHM that neglects/abuses her children, I'd buy from her (even if it's a religious or "radical" site). As long as it's not from a big company, I'm cool.

You said it much better than me!


----------



## medaroge

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KristiMetz*

There is a WAHM who publishes a list of people who bought stuff from her and didn't pay for it. Now, why would I, a consumer interested in her products, care about that? It comes off as being very petty and self-righteous... and misguided.

Yes, I would be turned off by that as well. But (maybe I am just being dumb here, but) I dont understand how they can buy things from her without paying? I mean, you pay first, right? Then the wahm sends you your items AFTER you have paid. I'm confused. (so whats new! lol!)


----------



## JohnnysGirl

To answer the original question, I don't try to find out about the WAHM's personal philosophies and match them up with what I believe in to see if she's 'ok' to buy from. Nope. The only thing that turns me off about a WAHM is if she seems to be dishonest in _any way_, and if I'm even suspicious about that, I won't buy. I know that sort of crosses the line between 'customer service' and 'ethics', but honesty is honesty and falls into both categories, IMO, so is perhaps relevant to this discussion.


----------



## spatulagirl

Ok so I thought about it some more and read the posts. And yeah, I don't think I want to buy from people who aren't AP. I mean, I would hate to buy from someone who advocates spanking their kids, etc.

I am not Christian and have shopped with Christian WAHMs (and I have lots of friends that are Christian and always appreciate prayers, etc) but DH prefers if I didn't. We disagree there.

I would not shop with somone who gives money to a cause I do not agree with.

I feel more drawn to WAHMs who live a similar lifestyle, definitely. But learning all this takes a lot of research and online time and learning about them as a person.

I do trust MDC WAHMs more than others!


----------



## wawoof

Quote:

Keep in mind that "environmentally destructive" (wow!-strong choice of words) is relative. Any laundering (short of beating items at the river with rocks) is not enhancing mother earth for subsequent generations, but in terms of a cloth diaper care routine being classified 'environmentally destructive' , I think even thick internal soaker fitteds are much kinder on the earth, even with more rinses required than say, flatfold diapers, and longer drying times, than the damage done to the earth via disposable diaper production and disposal. Just wanted to say I felt that your wording was rather harsh, and that mamas who believe strongly in helping the environment but don't only use flats & hang to dry, might take a slight offense at what you said.
Sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone. What I meant is that when choosing cloth diapers, I try to chose those that are more environmentally friendly - compared to other cloth diapers and compared to disposables. I agree that there is "environmental destruction" associated with any diapering choice. But I have to disagree with you, from that studies I've seen, that *any* CD choice is necessarily more environmentally friendly than disposables. A Union of Concerned Scientists review and a recent UK study both found little if any environmental difference between using cloth versus disposables, and I assume these studies were averaging across the kinds of cloth that people use. To me this implies that some cloth choices might be better than sposies and some might be worse. For example, I think that for people who live in places with extreme water shortages but lots of landfill space, disposables may be a better environmental choice, but for people who live in places with lots of water and little landfill space, cloth would be an better environmental choice. Also, if a diaper takes 1/2 a day in the dryer to dry, that's a lot of energy being used and I'm not certain that would be less than the impact of disposables. All of this said, I find it hard to make environmentally ideal cloth diapering choices. I don't line dry because I live in an apt without a clothesline and it takes more time than I have available. I use hemp flats to stuff our pockets overnight because hemp is pretty environmentally friendly to grow and nothing else has been absorbant enough for us. But an environmental cost is that I have to occasionally bleach the inserts due to stinkies. Everything is a trade-off and I'm not trying to point fingers at anyone - I apologize if my original post came across that way. I'm just saying that environmental ethics are huge factor in my CDing choices.


----------



## majazama

I, personally, am very concerned with how environmentally friendly the WAHMs I buy from and the products she/he produces are. I've been wanting to start a similar thread recently, but didn't want to divide the diapering board in a huge arguement. I hope this thread doesn't get that way.

I love being able to help support WAHM's... it's such a great thing that people can do this these days! That being said, I would prefer to shop with WAHMs that are *more* environmentally friendly than the others. I wish I knew which ones were more of my thinking. It's hard to tell on peoples sites sometimes. I know that I do stay away from *one* company because I found out that they were conservative.

I am really anti-bush/war/conservative-repubican, so I suppose that I am in the minority thinking that it's *great* if a WAHM chooses to send her money to a radical environmentalist movement. More power to her. I wish I had know of that particular auction so I could have bid. :LOL

Well, I probably just insulted half of the diapering board with my anti-newworldorder comments, just don't flame me too bad.


----------



## wawoof

Quote:

I am really anti-bush/war/conservative-repubican, so I suppose that I am in the minority thinking that it's great if a WAHM chooses to send her money to a radical environmentalist movement. More power to her. I wish I had know of that particular auction so I could have bid.
I tend to agree, though I'm picky about which environmentalist groups I support, because I think some are wonderful and others do more harm than good by alienating people with their extremism. I'm not sure how I would know which groups WAHMs support anyway??


----------



## umefey

I love supporting WAHMs








But I agree with one of the PP, if the site is full of religious stuff I will probably shy away. Same with the published list of non-paying customers.
Another thing that has kind of turned me off recently was something that a WAHM posted on "the Walmart thread" totally defending them.... I don't support Walmart and don't really want to buy things from someone who proudly purchases most of their supplies from them KWIM? I can understand running out of sewing thread at midnight before a really big order, but can't understand the big Walmart advocate thing.

(edited to change the word "deadbeat" Ebay reffers to non-paying auction winners as "deadbeat bidders" and it sticks in my brain soup, I wasn't trying to offend...


----------



## umefey

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Mamajaza**
That being said, I would prefer to shop with WAHMs that are *more* environmentally friendly than the others. I wish I knew which ones were more of my thinking. It's hard to tell on peoples sites sometimes. I know that I do stay away from *one* company because I found out that they were conservative.

I am really anti-bush/war/conservative-repubican, so I suppose that I am in the minority thinking that it's *great* if a WAHM chooses to send her money to a radical environmentalist movement. More power to her. I wish I had know of that particular auction so I could have bid. :LOL

Well, I probably just insulted half of the diapering board with my anti-newworldorder comments, just don't flame me too bad.










I totally agree with this, even though i'm sort of ashamed to admit that I will shy away from overly conservative companies







:


----------



## Ellien C

I haven't read all the replies, but I have to say there is a HUGE difference in supporting an independently owned business where the product is made locally and a large multinational conglomerate that exploits it's workers.

For one the independent business is likely pouring any surplus money back into her own community. Heck - even if it's a right to life campaign (which I disagree with) that's a HECK of a lot better than supporting fat white guys in some corporate office with their own PAC! The more middlemen, the more removed they are from the consequences of their actions.


----------



## Danahen

Quote:

I'm not sure how I would know which groups WAHMs support anyway??
Just ask







. Most WAHMs will specifically state where your money is going if it is a charity auction.


----------



## amicrazyyet

A person's ethics and morals mean a lot to me. Actually ethics and morals go hand in hand to me. A mom trying to do the best she can and stay home with her children says more to me than anything else. By reading their reviews I can usually tell if they run a biz with ethical/moral practices.

Their religion, political views, etc, IMO are none of my business. I have no way to know the full story and cannot judge others for doing the best they can. If someone is running a charity donation sale that I don't support then I may not buy until the donation is done with, but I would never write them off or judge them based on that.


----------



## Danahen

Quote:

overly conservative companies
What is an overly conservative company?


----------



## greenmansions

I would love to know more about the WAHMs that I buy from. I am with those above who avoid overly religious sites, and would definitely buy from those who are more into environmental causes, liberal politically, etc, if I knew who they were.

But since I don't, I am just happy to be supporting a WAHM to help her stay home with her kids.

I do avoid large corporations whose policies and politics I disagree with, as much as possible (or whose top executives' politics I disagree with). Wal Mart and Safeway come to mind...


----------



## Lizzie3143

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greenmansions*
I would love to know more about the WAHMs that I buy from. I am with those above who avoid overly religious sites, and would definitely buy from those who are more into environmental causes, liberal politically, etc, if I knew who they were.


Well, after this thread I'd have to say most wahms probably would NOT share those views with anyone anymore. I'm a wahm (that hasn't sewn in ages cuz I've been WOH for about a year) but now I see that sharing some things that are really nobody elses business could hurt my company. I like getting fabric at walmart gosh darnit!







:


----------



## LoveBaby

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amicrazyyet*
A person's ethics and morals mean a lot to me. Actually ethics and morals go hand in hand to me. A mom trying to do the best she can and stay home with her children says more to me than anything else. By reading their reviews I can usually tell if they run a biz with ethical/moral practices.

Their religion, political views, etc, IMO are none of my business. I have no way to know the full story and cannot judge others for doing the best they can. If someone is running a charity donation sale that I don't support then I may not buy until the donation is done with, but I would never write them off or judge them based on that.











particularly..."cannot judge others for doing the best they can" especially since there really isn't a way for me to know the reasons/cause/full story behind it.


----------



## scrappinmomof3

Quote:

Their religion, political views, etc, IMO are none of my business. I have no way to know the full story and cannot judge others for doing the best they can. If someone is running a charity donation sale that I don't support then I may not buy until the donation is done with, but I would never write them off or judge them based on that.
Amen.

I think this thread, while interesting, could potentially become very damaging to some WAHM businesses. The comment of the list of dead-beat customers... not sure where that is, but I am sure the WAHM who has a list that lists her in progress customs is scratching her head right now, wondering where the words "dead-beat" came up. Come on. Dead-beat customers? Seriously? Sure, there are customers who don't pay. So why can't that be reflected? I would never assume that the person who didn't pay is being blatantly evasive. Dead-beat to me is a father who owes child support. He is under a legal obligation to carry through with the court's order. He doesn't. He's a dead-beat dad. But a customer,who makes a promise to a WAHM to purchase what s/he has obligated themselves to purchasing, is a dead-beat?

Sorry... that just really got to me.

And for what it is worth, I think it is a slippery slope when we start to view WAHMs in a fish bowl. We all have different outlooks on parenting. I couldn't nurse my last one, no matter how hard I tried. Does that make my any less AP than someone who COULD get nursing to work for them? I don't think so. But the customer who might see me out on the street someday with my 2 YO, who has a bottle in her mouth, automatically assumes that I am not an advocate for breastfeeding, that I formula feed my child, so let's not buy from her. where is the line drawn?

I can see where you would want to deal with an ethical WAHM. I support that. I try to be that. No one wants to part with their hard-earned money to never see a product in return. But when you start to pass judgment on someone for what you *think* you see, then that is where I draw the line. Make sense?

I am all for the customer being as informed as possible. You should be. It is your right, and really it is your obligation. But when someone starts to question what toothpaste I use, because only XXXX brand toothpaste is the one you use, then don't you think that takes it a little too far?

And the Wal Mart comment..... never mind.


----------



## canadiannancy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amicrazyyet*
A person's ethics and morals mean a lot to me. Actually ethics and morals go hand in hand to me. A mom trying to do the best she can and stay home with her children says more to me than anything else. By reading their reviews I can usually tell if they run a biz with ethical/moral practices.

Their religion, political views, etc, IMO are none of my business. I have no way to know the full story and cannot judge others for doing the best they can. If someone is running a charity donation sale that I don't support then I may not buy until the donation is done with, but I would never write them off or judge them based on that.










This is exactly how I feel.


----------



## Sugarwoman

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scrappinmomof3*
Amen.

I think this thread, while interesting, could potentially become very damaging to some WAHM businesses. The comment of the list of dead-beat customers... not sure where that is, but I am sure the WAHM who has a list that lists her in progress customs is scratching her head right now, wondering where the words "dead-beat" came up. Come on. Dead-beat customers? Seriously? Sure, there are customers who don't pay. So why can't that be reflected? I would never assume that the person who didn't pay is being blatantly evasive. Dead-beat to me is a father who owes child support. He is under a legal obligation to carry through with the court's order. He doesn't. He's a dead-beat dad. But a customer,who makes a promise to a WAHM to purchase what s/he has obligated themselves to purchasing, is a dead-beat?

Sorry... that just really got to me.

And for what it is worth, I think it is a slippery slope when we start to view WAHMs in a fish bowl. We all have different outlooks on parenting. I couldn't nurse my last one, no matter how hard I tried. Does that make my any less AP than someone who COULD get nursing to work for them? I don't think so. But the customer who might see me out on the street someday with my 2 YO, who has a bottle in her mouth, automatically assumes that I am not an advocate for breastfeeding, that I formula feed my child, so let's not buy from her. where is the line drawn?

I can see where you would want to deal with an ethical WAHM. I support that. I try to be that. No one wants to part with their hard-earned money to never see a product in return. But when you start to pass judgment on someone for what you *think* you see, then that is where I draw the line. Make sense?

I am all for the customer being as informed as possible. You should be. It is your right, and really it is your obligation. But when someone starts to question what toothpaste I use, because only XXXX brand toothpaste is the one you use, then don't you think that takes it a little too far?

And the Wal Mart comment..... never mind.

I couldn't agree more.


----------



## Lizzie3143

I love you Meredith!! You always have such a way with words.


----------



## BCmamaof6

There is a WAHM that I had done a fair amount of business with until I heard from a fellow MDCer how badly she had been treated by this WAHM. Now, as much as I love the products- I just really feel that I can't give that company my business.

I am also aware of which WAHMs are contributing to charity, such as the upcoming Fluff Factory event...and totally respect that! And want to support them.


----------



## girlfactory

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jloveladycmc*
I like that I'm supporting WAHM's. I feel like even if they don't have the same practices/belief system that I do..I like that I am helping them stay at home w/ their babies. If I didn't support any body unless they were just like me, then I'd better get real good at sewing/canning/farming/accounting/ etc. I'd rather give my business to a WAHM who I don't have one single thing in common w/ than give my $$$ to gerber for cheap prefolds made in China.


Excellent post!


----------



## grnmtnmama

I like to support these small WAHM businesses, and often one will catch my eye reading a post and it'll seem like some sort of connection and so i try to buy from them.

i agree with the previous posters who mentioned avoiding websites that include a lot of religious copy. While it doesn't bother me to support WAHMs of any religion, I do get turned off when I see a lot of it on their site because it doesn't really pertain to me.

I love to shop WAHMs who just seem to love their children - you know how some sites really share that experience. Also, I love to buy from WAHMs who love what they're doing and are really into it. I get a good vibe from that and then don't feel that I need to delve deeper into their ethical and moral qualifications.


----------



## GranolaMoon

Yes it affects my shopping. I don't surf for nitty gritty details on every wahm purchase, but if I know of questionable (imo) stuff I'll avoid them. If there is pearl/ezzo support on a wahm site I'll click the X right away. I've clicked the X for wahms sending Y% of sales to causes I'm vehemently against. I've never not bought something because of the wahm's religion, Christian or Pagan, doubt I ever would either. I do go out of my way to purchase wahm dipes rather than the mass produced sort, not that there's anything "wrong" with mass produced, I just prefer supporting wahms. When I happen upon a new wahm site with a product I'm interested in, I assume they're "safe" to buy from, I assume innocence until proven guilty lol.

I don't shop at Walfarts, I try my hardest not to buy stuff (especially kid toys) made in China, I don't buy produce not grown in America, etc., I don't see why I shouldn't use those same tactics when shopping online.

ETA: "questionable" to me, means really bad stuff, ezzo/pearl would be a primary example. I don't care if their baby pic has a pacifier and bottle in it next to their McDonalds happy meal with a crib in the background.


----------



## ChristinaB

What I don't understand is this... some WAHMs, like myself, would rather NOT put all the personal info on their sites because number one, it's the internet! There are freaks out there (as we all have seen) and number two (follows very close to #1) is it's no ones business. Again this goes along with my whole, don't place judgement on ANYONE theory.
So (and this is just an example) if "XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX" HYENA diaper making WAHM was discovered to be someone in their personal life that you don't necessarily agree with personally, would you stop buying from that person and sell all your amazing and wonderful "hyena" diapers that fit and work sooo well on your baby? I have a hard time believing that!


----------



## umefey

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Danahen*
What is an overly conservative company?










This is probably going to get me flamed.
I was using "overly concervative" as a delicate term for really hardcore fundamentalist republicans.
By "Overly Conservative" I'm talking about people who are very vocal in their "business life/image" with ideas that I personally think are whack (IE Killing innocent people in Iraq and Afganistan because they are "terrorists who hate freedom", Militant anti-choice groups, Racism, Patriarchy, Homophobia, Etc... I'm *NOT* saying that all of these things are things that every conservative does..







)
I don't really want to support someone who gives company money or spends time canvasing for GWB, gives company money to some anti-choice group who kills doctors, or someone who purchases their supplies exclusivley from Walmart...
I wont boycott a WAHM just because she's for GWB in her personal life... but there should be definate lines between personal life and business life.
If a person chooses to blend the two (IE putting lots of bible verses on their business website, political stuff.. whatever), then I feel like I should be able to judge a company based on what ideas are presented there.
I mean, i'm not sitting here googling wahm names trying to figure out what they are doing at home KWIM?

I do agree with this

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amicrazyyet*
Their religion, political views, etc, IMO are none of my business. I have no way to know the full story and cannot judge others for doing the best they can. If someone is running a charity donation sale that I don't support then I may not buy until the donation is done with, but I would never write them off or judge them based on that.

HOWEVER, I don't support many big companies because I feel their practices are unethical, should I be more leniant to WAHMs, just because they are WAHMs?
I'm not trying to sound like a hardass







:


----------



## spatulagirl

Ok, this thread shouldn't have anything to do with how nice a mama is. It has nothing to do with that.

I want to know if people who boycot certain companies because of their political leanings charities they support, etc. do the same when shopping diapers.

I don't shop at Walmart. I disagree with the way they run their business, treat their employess and their competition and force suppliers to lower their prices so Walmart will continue buying from them. I don't buy Nestle. I boycotted Pepsi-Frito Lay because of their involvement with the government in Burma. There are more but I won't get into it all.

I understand what you are saying Meredith. I don't think this is about judging but about shopping based on our beleifs.

I for one don't care about formula or breast, what religion (DH does but he doesn't buy the diapers!) etc. I would not buy from someone who gave a % of regular sales to a charity I don't support and if there is any Ezzo/Pearl reference I would be out of there.

make sense? I try to be an informed consumer and do the best I can, just like any mama.


----------



## Jennisee

Going to try to avoid the slippery slope stuff and just answer the OP's question. Yes, there are several WAHM's that I do not shop from b/c of things I have seen them post, including a couple hyena ones, and there are also WAHM's that I made a point to do business with b/c of things I have seen them post. But I don't see it as "buy from *this* WAHM or be forced to go to Wal-Mart."







I've found that there is almost always an alternative, usually another WAHM.


----------



## umefey

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GranolaMoon*
I don't shop at Walfarts, I try my hardest not to buy stuff (especially kid toys) made in China, I don't buy produce not grown in America, etc., I don't see why I shouldn't use those same tactics when shopping online.


----------



## spatulagirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristinaB*
What I don't understand is this... some WAHMs, like myself, would rather NOT put all the personal info on their sites because number one, it's the internet! There are freaks out there (as we all have seen) and number two (follows very close to #1) is it's no ones business. Again this goes along with my whole, don't place judgement on ANYONE theory.
So (and this is just an example) if "XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX" HYENA diaper making WAHM was discovered to be someone in their personal life that you don't necessarily agree with personally, would you stop buying from that person and sell all your amazing and wonderful "hyena" diapers that fit and work sooo well on your baby? I have a hard time believing that!

I don't think that it has to do with personal info.

Say there was a business owner who spanked and hated nursing and smoked. And you were very into GD and breastmilk and anti-smoking. You might not want to shop there right?

As for the hyena comment, I don't know. I mean, if I had diapers made by a company that also owned stock in a venture that destroyed rainforests in South America, yeah I guess I would boycott them. I am pretty sure no WAHMs do this though


----------



## ChristinaB

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spatulagirl*
I don't think that it has to do with personal info.

Say there was a business owner who spanked and hated nursing and smoked. And you were very into GD and breastmilk and anti-smoking. You might not want to shop there right?

As for the hyena comment, I don't know. I mean, if I had diapers made by a company that also owned stock in a venture that destroyed rainforests in South America, yeah I guess I would boycott them. I am pretty sure no WAHMs do this though









I think there is a fine line as to the POINT you are trying to make and some comments that were MADE on this post.... I've read lots of posts that say they look at the WAHM's info, posts, info on the sites, etc.. that is what I am talking about. Just yesterday, I was looking at a hyena WAHM site (who happens to be in a similar situation I am in) and I was thinking to myself, I would never offer up that info because to me, it's dangerous. But that is me, same goes for ANY personal info about myself (and now pictures). I guess it's one thing to get an idea about who a person is from say, posting with them for years on a message board and another to look for that info. In the end, you are still just buying diapers and supporting a WAHM. (generalization in that last sentence







)


----------



## Marco Esquandolas

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristinaB*
So (and this is just an example) if "XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX" HYENA diaper making WAHM was discovered to be someone in their personal life that you don't necessarily agree with personally, would you stop buying from that person and sell all your amazing and wonderful "hyena" diapers that fit and work sooo well on your baby? I have a hard time believing that!

I would. believe it.

I'm not trying to be argumentative. If I was honestly philosophically opposed to something then I'd no longer support the wahm in question. That's pretty cut and dry, black and white to me. Then again, I tend to buy diapers for performance, not hyena status, so I could easily find a suitable replacement item/wahm.


----------



## KayleeZoo

As long as the wahm isn't unethical to my knowledge (ie- ripping people off, etc), I don't probe any deeper than that. I would be really offended and annoyed if a wahm wanted to know what my parenting style was, what political group I was affiliated with, or what religion I practice before she chose whether or not to sell her product to me. I feel that the wahms I buy from deserve the same courtesy.


----------



## DreamingMama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scrappinmomof3*
Amen.

I think this thread, while interesting, could potentially become very damaging to some WAHM businesses. The comment of the list of dead-beat customers... not sure where that is, but I am sure the WAHM who has a list that lists her in progress customs is scratching her head right now, wondering where the words "dead-beat" came up. Come on. Dead-beat customers? Seriously? Sure, there are customers who don't pay. So why can't that be reflected? I would never assume that the person who didn't pay is being blatantly evasive. Dead-beat to me is a father who owes child support. He is under a legal obligation to carry through with the court's order. He doesn't. He's a dead-beat dad. But a customer,who makes a promise to a WAHM to purchase what s/he has obligated themselves to purchasing, is a dead-beat?

Sorry... that just really got to me.

And for what it is worth, I think it is a slippery slope when we start to view WAHMs in a fish bowl. We all have different outlooks on parenting. I couldn't nurse my last one, no matter how hard I tried. Does that make my any less AP than someone who COULD get nursing to work for them? I don't think so. But the customer who might see me out on the street someday with my 2 YO, who has a bottle in her mouth, automatically assumes that I am not an advocate for breastfeeding, that I formula feed my child, so let's not buy from her. where is the line drawn?

I can see where you would want to deal with an ethical WAHM. I support that. I try to be that. No one wants to part with their hard-earned money to never see a product in return. But when you start to pass judgment on someone for what you *think* you see, then that is where I draw the line. Make sense?

I am all for the customer being as informed as possible. You should be. It is your right, and really it is your obligation. But when someone starts to question what toothpaste I use, because only XXXX brand toothpaste is the one you use, then don't you think that takes it a little too far?

And the Wal Mart comment..... never mind.

ITA!


----------



## ChristinaB

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phishmama*
I would. believe it.

I'm not trying to be argumentative. If I was honestly philosophically opposed to something then I'd no longer support the wahm in question. That's pretty cut and dry, black and white to me. Then again, I tend to buy diapers for performance, not hyena status, so I could easily find a suitable replacement item/wahm.

Gotcha







But I have a feeling most hyena buying mamas would make exceptions, I really do.


----------



## ChristinaB

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KayleeZoo*
As long as the wahm isn't unethical to my knowledge (ie- ripping people off, etc), I don't probe any deeper than that. I would be really offended and annoyed if a wahm wanted to know what my parenting style was, what political group I was affiliated with, or what religion I practice before she chose whether or not to sell her product to me. I feel that the wahms I buy from deserve the same courtesy.

OMG I am sooo glad someone brought this up! Ok now I don't need to say anything else on this thread







THANK YOU!!!


----------



## Marimami

I care more about how the WAHM treats customers. That tells me more than anything else I need to know to make educated buying decisions.

Holli


----------



## bklynmom04

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KayleeZoo*
As long as the wahm isn't unethical to my knowledge (ie- ripping people off, etc), I don't probe any deeper than that. I would be really offended and annoyed if a wahm wanted to know what my parenting style was, what political group I was affiliated with, or what religion I practice before she chose whether or not to sell her product to me. I feel that the wahms I buy from deserve the same courtesy.

expertly put!









imo, large companies are different from wahms -- one's a public entity and the other's a private individual. public = i have a right to know what their policies are and decide whether or not to support them. private = none of my business.

whether i shop with a certain wahm (or mom and pop store in my neighborhood) is only affected by the quality of their product and business (and, to some extent, personal) ethics of the store owner. i say "to some extent, personal" b/c i have no idea what their personal politics are. if i were to find out, somehow, that they bite the heads off of chickens at midnight when there's a full moon, ummm... yeah, i probably wouldn't shop there. if i were to learn that they're not very nice to their children, again -- i'd likely not visit them again. but i would never feel like i am entitled to find those things out.


----------



## jenaniah

I only boycott WAHMs whose business practices have negatively impacted me or my friends...so far it's only 2.

How do you find out if a WAHM doesn't practice AP??? DO you ask them?

ETA - I generally do not boycott big corporations either..I try to avoid them but if I HAVE to go to Wal*Mart for something I will go to Wal*Mart (luckily there isn't a Wal*Mart near me so that isn't an issue unless I am visiting family in other areas) I don't like that in certain places I am forced to shop at Wal*Mart b/c it is the only reasonably priced store for miles though.


----------



## Got_Cloth

WOW!!!!
What a scary eye opening thread for wahm's. I am a wahm that was raised in a very mainstream family. It is HARD to change that. And alot of you may think not. My family takes baby steps. like we just cut cable since i dont wantmy kids watching anythign on tv.Now our only option is pretty much news LOL BUT does that make not as AP as others becaseu my kids watched TV. I have considred myslef very AP since my oldest was about 6 months.The light went on, but I am still learning. Yes, learning 3 kids later.
I joined MDC in an effort to meet with mommies that have similar values that I do. Similar.... not the SAME!!! I never thought that anything I posted would make someone NOT want to do business with me. Am i a badmommy since I use Chinese prefolds, and not somemade in america?? I think you do the best with what you have. and Everyone Learns all thru life. Some of us takea bit longer to learn









hmmm......
Just very interesting to read how some ppl feel about personal lives of WAHM's.


----------



## Leilalu

I agree that we can't just judge every WAHM based on their parenting, religious preferences, where they shop, etc.

I mean, seriously, like I said before- I wouldn't be able to shop anywherer if I took on such a purist attitude. I will stay away from charities to fund things I may not agree with. But every family has a right to live as they want.Everyone has freedom of choice. How do I know that if I give money to a WAHM, she isn't just going to go spend it towards a nice vacation?I mean, it's not really my bussiness how she spends it.
I like being able to know a bit about WAHM's though, and I hope this thread doesn't ruin this for us all







I know I never meant for it too by responding.


----------



## navygirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KayleeZoo*
As long as the wahm isn't unethical to my knowledge (ie- ripping people off, etc), I don't probe any deeper than that. I would be really offended and annoyed if a wahm wanted to know what my parenting style was, what political group I was affiliated with, or what religion I practice before she chose whether or not to sell her product to me. I feel that the wahms I buy from deserve the same courtesy.









: Beautifully said. I would be very upset if I went to buy a diaper from a WAHM and before I could buy her product I had to take a test to see if my parenting style, political group and religion were the same as hers. I don't expect to be discriminated against because of my parenting style, political group or religion and I feel that it would be hypocritical to do that to a WAHM. I think that it is enough that they are doing something that they love and being able to stay at home with their children, not everybody can say that.


----------



## SaraMama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marimami*
I care more about how the WAHM treats customers. That tells me more than anything else I need to know to make educated buying decisions.


----------



## MissSugarKane

Well crap I can not even find time to get a shower most days lately let alone investigate a WAHMs personal life. As long as she makes a good product and provides good service I'll buy.


----------



## Pinoikoi

When I first started buying diapers, I was just looking around for a "deal"- I really didn't care much about anything else. I just wanted diapers. bad. :LOL

Now though, I have found some wahm's websites to be a "turn off" to their items. I found a website that had anti wool info and antihoney info. I don't think any of her items had to do with honey, although I could see her making a statement as to why she doesn't sell wool, and click here if you want more info kind of thing (which I personally would have avoided, as I actually LIKE most animal products- shoot me now!!) I think that animal products have a bad rap in a lot of ways, it depends on the companies/people and thier care for the animals as to whether they get my business.

But why bees?? Didn't have much to do with diapers I think.

I also will not shop overtly religious sites, I think the fish symbol placed on their website somewhere gets the message across without sticking all of the Bible quotes around. (my fix it guy has a fish on his business card, I think it is appropriate).

I think just generally, it is when a business SLAMS another (or another religion for that matter) that I shy away. I don't like anyone telling me what to think or believe. It is my choice. thanks.


----------



## jentilla

Oh my! I'm getting ready to open a business and I never thought one could come under fire in such a way.

I don't look at WAHM beliefs. If they come acroos negatively on their site then I might be turned off.

If they were kind of radical then well may I would be turned off.

The funny thing is, it's mostly how nice they are, BUT it does come down to PRODUCT. If the product is not good-see ya!
But then I go to restaurants for the food, not the service. I waited tables for too long to rely on service, although it should be adequate. I don't expect a WAHM to bend over backwards for me: respond, ship and have a good day!


----------



## Oceanone

I don't have time to adress the individual beliefs and practices of each wahm. Live and let live. I don't need to deal only with people who are like me. I just like a degree of professionalism. If a wahm treats customers badly or is unprofessional that's a real turn off at a personal level . I will never buy from one that acts this way towards me or others online.


----------



## scrappinmomof3

Stepping away from this for the afternoon and coming back... just want to make a comment about some of the comments made about boycotting businesses.

You boycott Wal Mart. WM ain't gonna feel it, ladies.

You boycott a WAHM based on a subjective opinion, she IS gonna feel it.

I'm not saying put aside your belief systems. I am just saying if you feel a certan way about what you SEE and what CAN be judged (i.e. if I have on my site that I am donating all proceeds of all my auctions to the Society that Believes in Taking Your Animals Out in the Backyard and Chaining Them to the Fence), and you don't share my views, then go for it. But when you get down to the nitty gritty of the toothpaste a WAHM uses, or the place she shops, I mean.. how do you KNOW if a WAHM gets thread at Wal Mart or from another WAHM? You gonna ask? And if you have THAT much time on your hands, more power to ya!

Now I am sounding flip, and I don't mean to. I am just saying... there really are bigger fish to fry in the world. If you don't believe in something that a WAHM stands for, then just make the SILENT choice of not shopping with her. I know no names were given in this thread, and that is excellent.

So now I am getting back on my horse and gallop into the sunset, going to feed my children fast food from a local ice cream establishment because I like to support local vendors.


----------



## eden/averymum

I never thought about it, but am generally happy to support a wahm. unless i heard something upseting I probably won't think about it again! lol!


----------



## amicrazyyet

Quote:


Originally Posted by *umefey*
I do agree with this
HOWEVER, I don't support many big companies because I feel their practices are unethical, should I be more leniant to WAHMs, just because they are WAHMs?
I'm not trying to sound like a hardass







:

I agree that you should absolutely choose to do biz with those that share your ethics. 100% totally agree. However, IMO there is a fine line to me between ethics/morals and politics/religion. A persons morals are often guided by their foundation of religion which can also influence their politics. But there still is a line there to me. As long as a person is using good biz practices and not using sweatshops, cheating, lying, stealing, etc, then I call that ethical biz dealings.

If something is totally against my moral code and it shakes my core beliefs and they advertised the fact then I make the personal choice not to do biz.

I kind of view it like this. I married my DH even though we have totally different religious, and political views and some of them are polar opposite views. However we have a commonality in our ethics and morals. We try to live humbly and are kind to others. It makes things spicey at times with the "discussions" we get into, but the core is still the same. He votes for one person to be president, I voted for someone different. He grew up feeling one way about Pro-life/Pro-Choice and yet I feel totally opposite. We both support different charities. These are not core things for us. These core values for us come from a different place. We are on the same page as far as raising children, belief in a higher power, how we live our lives, giving back to others and the impact we make on others.

I view most WAHM's this way if they operate in an ethical manner. I don't need to know their private thoughts and views. And most of the time even if I did know it, it doesn't affect me much since I try to view it as 2 totally different people from 2 totally different backgrounds trying to come to a common goal.


----------



## Sustainer

There is a diaper website (whose name I shall not mention on this thread) that states on its main page that a certain percentage of profit is donated to right-to-life groups. I will not buy from them. Yes, a WAHM's personal life is her own affair, but when you state on your company website that a percentage of the customer's purchase will go to a certain group, you are inviting your customers to choose whether or not they want to support your company (and therefore the group) based on that information.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wawoof*
A Union of Concerned Scientists review and a recent UK study both found little if any environmental difference between using cloth versus disposables

I've never heard of the UCS review, but I believe the recent UK study was funded/influenced by disposable diaper companies.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wawoof*
I assume these studies were averaging across the kinds of cloth that people use.

I read the UK study, and no, it did not take into account the range of different kinds of cloth diapers that people use. In fact, everything about the study was biased against cloth.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wawoof*
To me this implies that some cloth choices might be better than sposies and some might be worse.

Actually, that isn't true. There isn't a single cloth diapering system or method that comes close to the environmental impact of disposables.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wawoof*
For example, I think that for people who live in places with extreme water shortages but lots of landfill space, disposables may be a better environmental choice

It isn't just a question of the volume of landfill space taken up. You have to consider the environmental impact of the manufacturing process, and you have to consider not just the quantity of landfill space but also the qualities of the materials being dumped and their affect on human health when they enter the environment.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wawoof*
Also, if a diaper takes 1/2 a day in the dryer to dry, that's a lot of energy being used and I'm not certain that would be less than the impact of disposables.

Actually, it takes a lot more energy to manufacture a sposie than it does to dry even the longest drying internal-soaker cloth diaper. Plus, a cloth diaper user can save even more energy by using a Spin X or similar water extractor like I do.

All that said, I'm definitely in favor of minimizing what environmental impact cloth diapers have even further.


----------



## IdentityCrisisMama

I haven’t bought diapers on-line (used a service before I knew about this stuff) but I do support small businesses and, yes, I do choose who I want to give my money to based on my values. Supporting small business and quality goods is as much a part of my values as other things. It seems like a fitting part of NFL to me.


----------



## Kari_mom

I am the customer. I can chose whatever standards I wish to guide my purchases. I've walked away from purchases because I didn't like a website or I didn't want to stalk. Certainly ethics is a more serious and important reason to chose NOT to purchase a diaper?

The OP asked if ethics and morals guide my purchases, I responded yes. And they do. I don't believe that just because you are a WAHM, you are automatically worthy of my patronage. Not all WAHMs stay home for their children. Not all WAHMs use their business to support their families. Lots of WAHMs have jobs out of the home. I mention this because I don't think that you can make blanket statements about how supporting WAHMs is so important so a mother can stay home with her children.

I don't go out of my way to figure out who is ethical and has similar morals to my own, but if I KNOW because of the information available casually to me from message boards and their own websites, well yes I am going to use that knowlege.


----------



## Sustainer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scrappinmomof3*
You boycott Wal Mart. WM ain't gonna feel it, ladies.

They will if enough of us do it.


----------



## Boobiemama

So are we as wahms supposed to have a list on our site of all the AP things we do so customers can decide if we are "worthy" enough" to buy from?

and I'm sure I will lose many customers when they find out I drink Pepsi!









I think if a wahm offers a good product, and good service,. what she does in her own house is none of my business. Besides, how do you ever really "know" someone on the internet?

Oh, edited to add, I wouldnt buy from a wahm if she made diapers to support her booze and crack habit. :LOL


----------



## ma_Donna

Generally my influences with WAHM's are on the positive side, for example I appreciate wool from local sources and it makes me more excited about their product. I am more likely to buy products from them.

I so appreciate that there is such a lovely array of WAHM products out there and I have such great things for my kid. Yesterday Noah was wearing WAHM things from head to toe, shirt, longies, diaper & shoes. Made me feel great.

OTOH there is a local furniture store that had their 'personality' appear with a local political candidate that I don't agree with - I don't shop there. Fortunately there are other local sources to choose from. However, I would prefer to shop there than a big chain... if I couldn't find it second hand :LOL

In the beginning, I didn't think too much about some cloth having a lighter environmental impact than others, I've got a complete stash so I'm not going to sell everything off to use (for example) just hemp flats that I line dry & locally produced wool... but this awareness is making me more aware of future purchases. I have a friend (not quite ready to TTC yet) that I was showing diapers to and she was asking about line drying and it hadn't even occured to me - but made me more aware that I still have more to learn


----------



## umefey

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ma_Donna*
OTOH there is a local furniture store that had their 'personality' appear with a local political candidate that I don't agree with - I don't shop there. Fortunately there are other local sources to choose from. However, I would prefer to shop there than a big chain... if I couldn't find it second hand :LOL

This is exactly what I mean.
I don't care if a WAHM drinks pepsi, or shops for her groceries at Safeway... That has nothing to do with her/his company.


----------



## Kari_mom

Quote:

So are we as wahms supposed to have a list on our site of all the AP things we do so customers can decide if we are "worthy" enough" to buy from?
I don't think anyone is saying that at all. But I think it is important for WAHMs to realize that how they represent themselves on the internet does impact their sales. I don't think it is a big WAHM conspiracy or anything. It is just the human nature of the business. If I am looking at two products from two different WAHMs, and one I think is AP because of what she has posted and the other I think is not AP because of what she has posted, then I am going to buy from the first. I am not going to say to myself, hmm, how can I be most fair about this since I could be horribly wrong, I think I will toss a coin.









Putting yourself and your business out there on message boards is a double-edged sword. You'll get more business if people know you and know about your business. But you might lose a customer or two. Overall I think you have to agree it is worth the exposure.


----------



## allformyboys

I am going to say I don't think I would actively boycott a WAHM based on their beliefs, religion or race, however I will based on a moral vibe or proven ethical issues. I have WAHM's (and one that was VERY hyena at one time) that I will not ever buy from, based on things I 'personally' know about them.

I would not actively boycott meaning I wouldn't tell others "Don't buy from so and so because they do XX and YY" but I would personally refrain from spending my hard earned money there. I know of one WAHM that sells cloth diapers and slings yet she never holds her baby (or uses a sling) unless it is going to make her money, she lets him cry a lot and uses disposable diapers, but she can 'make money' selling cloth. She pushes natural parenting and AP lifestyle as a business but practices none of it. I know her personally and I wouldn't ever buy from her. Yes I will boycott her from a personal stand point.

I wouldn't judge a WAHM that I didn't know personally though, one post or a 'vibe' I get isn't really enough to make me buy or not buy, I don't seek out posts by WAHM's and honestly I rarely look at WHO is making the post and respond in general. I wouldn't judge someone for not breastfeeding, I know there are some who try and can't, or who don't/didn't know better, I wouldn't judge a WAHM for shopping at Wal-Mart either, sometimes it is all she has, I live in a SMALL town and Walmart is the ONLY place in 40 mins that sells fabric (I don't use fabric in my business thankfully) but if I did, it would be my only 'local' option, and frankly WAHM's profit margin is so little I wouldn't deny her right to get her supplies as cheaply as she can to make more for her family. I might not agree with Walmarts business practices, but to me they are about the only option I can afford for a lot of things (food being one of them-a local store is 4x more expensive). I grow what I can, but I live in Michigan so our summers are fairly short, and we do what we have to to get by.

So I shop at Walmart-that is my dirty little secret, boycot if you must.







(I don't get supplies for business there-they don't sell wool....LOL)


----------



## Boobiemama

Oh, I had another thought. I know of a wahm that doesnt even use the diapers she makes. She uses disposables. I would wonder why she doesnt use her own diapers. I believe a wahm should know her product, and if she is selling it, it should be something that she stands behind and uses too.


----------



## pilesoflaundry

The only time I care is if it's a charity auction and all the money goes to a charity I do not agree with or a cause I do not support. I won't mention which causes I don't support because it doesn't matter here.

I suppose if I found out someone loved the Ezzos it would be harder to want to give them my money but if I don't want someone asking me what I support before I can buy their product I don't have the right to ask them before I purchase. If it's clearly stated on their website that's different I can decide from there but I won't ask anyone.


----------



## Lynski

A WAHM who uses disposables!?! That's just amazing to me to even think about! :LOL

I was alarmed when I read this thread, and I've been watching it all day. It stinks to think that someone wouldn't buy from me because they thought I wasn't AP enough, or that I was a jerk. :LOL But what can I say, I've done the same thing. I read on a site the rather extreme religious views of the owner, and I so strongly disagreed that I left the site. I do choose to shop from moms I know and love when I need something, they are friends and I sometimes even pay a little more because I want to support them.

That said, if the product was good and reliable, I wouldn't have turned away. I didn't have any knowledge of that WAHM so I didn't look any further. But if I found out tomorrow that my favorite diaper making had some unusual views, I wouldn't stop buying them. There are issues I feel strongly about though, and in those cases I can't say what I would do. I agree that if I saw that part of the proceeds went to a cause I didn't agree with, I'd shop somewhere else. In that case I wouldn't want to support the cause by contributing my sale. That seems fairly straight forward to me.


----------



## Danahen

ALASKANTEACH, you say:

Quote:

I found a website that had anti wool info and antihoney info. I don't think any of her ..........
You may be referring to me. I used to sell WIOs over a year ago until I decided I did not want to be part of that industry any longer. I have *never* come down on anyone who uses wool, I will even do business with them. It is my personal choice. The links I offer at my site are mostly there so I don't have to keep answering the many emails I was recieving as to why I stopped making the WIOs and bees' wax based products (at my site, they did have "to do with the diapers"), as well as dyed silks. These were all items I used to sell. I am not trying to "give animal products a bad rap", not at all. I am simply putting the information out there. If you don't want to read the links, don't







. They aren't there to threaten anyone, that would be sort of counter productive. Ask *any* wool WAHM that knows me, and she'll tell you how non judgemental I am.


----------



## Morwenna

Quote:

Ask *any* wool WAHM that knows me, and she'll tell you how non judgemental I am
























The info. is there if you are curious--I was and learned something from it!

I don't feel it's judgemental at all--if you are not interested, don't click!

I use wool, and beeswax, and lanolin--and Dana still loves me









I am not put off by her site, or anyone else's as long as you are not hit over the head with political or religious messages. I think it's nice, when tastefully done--you get a real feeling for that person--it would be boring if we were all the same, very bland


----------



## Juliacat

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spatulagirl*
So, I want to know if you apply the same decision making when shopping for diapers as you might when shopping for other things. No naming names of course!

Yes, I do. I've even paid extra to shop from certain WAHMs.


----------



## Marco Esquandolas

Gosh, mamas, I don't want to see anyone's feelings get hurt!! I think it is good that we have this forum to express our opinions on this topic. It works both ways too mamas-I've shopped shops I wouldn't have known to look at b/c of something positive a wahm said or b/c of something I see in a wahm's siggy.

Dana-I for one was never put off by info on your site....I see vegan friendly and would expect you to NOT carry animal products, lol. Your links as to why are just like icing on the cake (dairy free, of course







). Info is good. Knowledge is power.

I'm really excited to see this post hit 5 pages with no one being nasty. Thanks, mamas!!


----------



## Rebecca

It seems like this sort of stuff can really split hairs. So a wahm breastfeeds but smokes or never eats vegetables. Or she is totally strung out all the time with lots of orders so she plops her kids in front of the TV so she can get some work done (but hey, she's 'staying home with her kids'). Or she had some sort of experience or upbringing that bestowed upon her specific political/moral beliefs you may or may not agree with. You never know what someone's situation is and we cannot judge based on a few superficial or even subjective 'qualifications'.

I look for a small biz that is run well and 'ethically'. I expect to be treated with respect. I expect to receive a well-made product. I expect not to be stolen from or lied to. That's about as far as I look before I buy from any small business. (notice I didn't say 'wahm' since I'm thinking the 'mothering' aspect should be separate from the business aspect, though I have yet to remove it from my own business)

But even 'ethically' is subjective. Some wahms don't pay/file taxes. Is that 'bad' because it's illegal and unfair to the rest of us who do, or is it 'ok' because some people don't believe in the things that taxes pay for like war, welfare, government programs, etc? While it's great to research a business before supporting it, how much do we really know about a biz/wahm? Anyone can be anyone on the internet. I think history (reviews) are the best predictor of a wahm's business values.


----------



## wawoof

Quote:

I read the UK study
Sustainer, do you have a link the whole UK study? I've only been able to read about it, not read the study itself. If the bias you suggest is true, I'll be thrilled. I was bummed to read about a second study (the UCS study being #1) saying that cloth is no better than sposies. TIA for a link to the study itself...


----------



## Juliacat

My money = my decision where to spend it. Being judgmental of other people has nothing to do with it--people can do what they want. I have the right to decide to buy from a WAHM who _doesn't_ advertise for causes I disagree with on her business web site.


----------



## momsgotmilk4two

I have not come accross a wahm who I would not buy from based on anything other than customer service and having a product I like. I don't go digging for info. I don't care if she is AP or pro Bush. In fact, I consciously buy candles from a mom friend of mine who is republican, not totally ap, and works outside the home in addition to her in home business. So what? She's a good person, a good mother, and she makes a good product. That's all I care about. I don't shop at Walmart, so I'd rather not indirectly support Walmart by buying products that are made from Walmart supplies BUT it is none of my beeswax if a wahm turns around and spends money that I spent on diapers for things at Walmart. That is going too far into her personal life. I like buying from wahm's. I feel like I am helping to support another mom. I don't care if that mom has a lot in common with me.


----------



## Mrs Dimples

This thread has been interesting. Basically, IMO it is any WAHM or diaper-maker's right to decide what content/personal info/whatever they have on their site, and it is my (or anyone's) right as a customer to decide how, if at all, I let that informatino impact my buying or not buying of their product. I think it's interesting to see where everyone stands on this.









As to my personal take: I make it a point in my personal, everyday life to not patronize establishment whose business or ethical practices I do not agree with. For example, I do not shop at Wal-mart. I would not necessarioy not patroninze a WAHM who gets her supplies there, but if all other things were equal I would probably be inclined to buy something from someone who did not get their supplies from a retailer who I take issue with. That said, I am more understanding for sure of a WAHM in this situaiotn because - maybe she lives in a small town and the only thing there is a Wal-mart. What are you gonna do?

But I do have to say that I bristle at the suggestion that boycotting establishments (such as Wal-mart) that I do not believe in does not matter. How do you think that Wal-mart got to be the only place in town to shop? Because every individual person who shopped there thought that their little dollars didn't matter. I cannot dictate others actions, nor do I want do. But I can take my money and put it where my mouth is. I wouldn't be me if I didn't. That's who I am, and it's important to me.









I do tend to assume, though, unless other blatant information presents itself to me, that a WAHM who is peddling cloth diapers and slings, etc, would tend to hold many of the same values as I do and I really don't lok into it any further. I'm certainly not sifting through their posts late at night to find out where they buy their groceries. :LOL


----------



## MissSugarKane

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Boobiemama*
and I'm sure I will lose many customers when they find out I drink Pepsi!









Yep you just lost me. I am a Coke drinker myself and could not stand the thought of supporting your Pepsi habit







:


----------



## Eman'smom

Ok I love WAHM's and I think my entire stash is WAHM's.

What gets me there and keeps me coming back, quality and customer service. Period.

oh wait, if there site said I'm a baby beating kitten killer I wouldn't buy from them, but basically it doesn't bother me.


----------



## Miss Juice

Hmmm I may get in some trouble here....

I actually like supporting WAHMs whose beliefs are different from mine. And hey I might just learn a thing or two. When I see something on a WAHMs website that tells me more about who she is, I like to support her even if she is different from me. Or even especially because she is different from me. If she feels strongly about certain things or issues and is brave enough to tell the world what she thinks, then power to her.

When it comes to corporations I fall completely on the other side. I will not buy from walfart. I have a gift card there and I can't bring myself to go there and use it, even though I know the ALREADY HAVE THE MONEY and therefore owe me a product. I am not kidding I can't go in there and not get a headache.

If a WAHM was supporting a charity cause I did not agree with I would not participate in that auction or event. But that has nothing to do with the WAHM, it has to do with the cause. It would not stop me from supporting the WAHM in the future.

My question is this: If you boyott a WAHM for any reason, do you at least get in contact with her and tell her so, and tell her why? If not, she won't even know you disagree.


----------



## Rising Sun

I make it a point in life to practice tollerance. I am more likely to do business with those who practice tollerance as well. So, I am not likely to shop on a site that boasts hate for any group of people based on race, religion, sexual preference, etc.

The same goes for customers. If I had an order that stated that they hate all people that are (insert religion here), and were so happy to hear that I'm not, so they will only shop with me, I might actually refund their money and refuse service. The only thing I hate is hate. The only thing I will not tollerate is intollerance.

I am very opinionated in my personal beliefs regarding raising children. Aren't we all? But, if I met Joeblow wahm at the mall and she was pushing her newborn around in a stroller, and propping the bottle, child in a soaking wet disposable, toddler with a dirty face and runny nose - drinking a pepsi, would I decide that she is not worthy of my patronage or friendship? No. I am more likely to invite her to lunch and ask to hold her baby, clean the toddlers face, and basically set a good example. Maybe she is overwhelmed. Maybe she had no idea that you could hold a baby through the mall. Maybe she tried to breastfeed, but thought that the cracked sore nipples were a permanant part of the deal. Maybe she only uses the disposables when out in the mall all day, and I can show her how easy it is to carry around a wet bag and keep that baby in cloth... and change the baby when he/she is wet.

Basically, I try not to judge. I haven't walked in the person's shoes... or maybe I have.

Now, if a person is selling cloth diapers and they don't use them themselves, I might not feel comfortable buying from them. I would wonder if they are able to make a quality product when they aren't even using it themselves. This only goes for wahms who have children and choose not to use their own products.

I support wohms as well. Many months have come that I am at the point of possibly getting a job outside of the home. Me and dh would have to do opposite schedules, so I would be working nights. Why is this? Because my business is not bringing in enough cash flow to support us. Because feeding my children and having a roof over their head is more important than me staying home with them. If I were to get a job outside the home, the very thing that would bring me back home would be good sales from my business. So, it seems counterproductive to boycott a wahm who is also a wohm. Maybe she needs more business to stay home. Wahms don't make a pretty penny, afterall. The whole family has to make sacrifices while the business is being established. And don't forget the months of June through August when there is almost no business. On a very limited budget, one might have no choice.

Anyway... those are my ramblings on the subject.

Teri


----------



## Carolinamidwife

I love you, Teri. When are we going to lunch?


----------



## averymybaby

Easy tigers!!!


----------



## boingo82

My big issue is circ. There was a WAHM who came on another debate board a few years ago and after arguing and namecalling said "Well you are all such jerks you've just made me want to circ MORE!"

Great. A mama who hurts her baby out of spite for someone on the internet.

No other issue would turn me away as much. I am turned off by bible quotes, not because I'm anti xtian or anti bible, but more because I feel like they're talking to someone else.

And Dana, I have one of your WIOs and it's great! I actually wanted to link someone to your site a while ago but you didn't have them anymore.

Now I'm curious who the sposie using WAHM is! I can't imagine it - all that free/cheap fluff and you use SPOSIES? Blasphemy!!


----------



## thefeasetree

Quote:


Originally Posted by *umefey*
This is probably going to get me flamed.
I was using "overly concervative" as a delicate term for really hardcore fundamentalist republicans.
By "Overly Conservative" I'm talking about people who are very vocal in their "business life/image" with ideas that I personally think are whack (IE Killing innocent people in Iraq and Afganistan because they are "terrorists who hate freedom", Militant anti-choice groups, Racism, Patriarchy, Homophobia, Etc...

:LOL They aren't conservatives!!! _I'm_ a conservative!!! They would be what we call extremists and dangerous!!


----------



## boingo82

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thefeasetree*
:LOL They aren't conservatives!!! _I'm_ a conservative!!! They would be what we call extremists and dangerous!!

LOL that for some people, the word "conservative" and the word "extremist" are synonymous, even though REALLY the words themselves are antonyms!


----------



## Sustainer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wawoof*
Sustainer, do you have a link the whole UK study? I've only been able to read about it, not read the study itself.

Sorry, I don't have the link to it anymore. If you do a search for it here at MDC though, there was a thread about it that had a link to it. And if you scroll down a little in that thread, you will also see a post from me in which I point out just a few of the problems with that "study."


----------



## 425lisamarie

Teri - I just wanted to comment on your post because it was refreshing to hear. I've pretty much left mothering for the time being because I just cannot stand all the self rightousness I've run into lately. Not that it is mothering as a whole, but I've been turned off lately by a couple people who were so stinking rude to me it's ridiculous.

I was just happy to hear your post, because I get so sick of feeling around here that I'm not "up to par" because I use a stroller now that DS is 13 months, and I eat meat and drink lots of cow's milk, and ust Tide in my wash. I've recently stopped being quite as obsessed with not using anything at all that could be interpreted as bad for the environment.

Anyways, I haven't posted here in a while but thought you deserved it.

Personally, anyone who is good to their children gets my vote. I could care less what they do, as long as they put their children above all else.


----------



## stacey31

Quote:


Originally Posted by *425lisamarie*
Teri - I just wanted to comment on your post because it was refreshing to hear. I've pretty much left mothering for the time being because I just cannot stand all the self rightousness I've run into lately. Not that it is mothering as a whole, but I've been turned off lately by a couple people who were so stinking rude to me it's ridiculous.

I was just happy to hear your post, because I get so sick of feeling around here that I'm not "up to par" because I use a stroller now that DS is 13 months, and I eat meat and drink lots of cow's milk, and ust Tide in my wash. I've recently stopped being quite as obsessed with not using anything at all that could be interpreted as bad for the environment.

Anyways, I haven't posted here in a while but thought you deserved it.

Personally, anyone who is good to their children gets my vote. I could care less what they do, as long as they put their children above all else.

Ditto.
I hate the whole "I am more crunchy than you" debates that go on here sometimes. I would have to say that most mamas at MDC are doing a great job. To answer the OP question; unless they have a a blatant anouncement on their site that says they abuse their kids, I am shopping


----------



## kblue

WOW!!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amicrazyyet*
A person's ethics and morals mean a lot to me. Actually ethics and morals go hand in hand to me. A mom trying to do the best she can and stay home with her children says more to me than anything else. By reading their reviews I can usually tell if they run a biz with ethical/moral practices.

Their religion, political views, etc, IMO are none of my business. I have no way to know the full story and cannot judge others for doing the best they can. If someone is running a charity donation sale that I don't support then I may not buy until the donation is done with, but I would never write them off or judge them based on that.

ITA with this, Meredith, Christina, Morwenna, Brandi and others....








and WOW again!


----------



## thefeasetree

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boingo82*
LOL that for some people, the word "conservative" and the word "extremist" are synonymous, even though REALLY the words themselves are antonyms!

Yeah. . .aren't "christian" and "Attachment parenting" oxymorons? What about "conservative" and "crunchy?" Aw, man. I've been accused of being a "granola christian," too. I just don't fit in anywhere!









I was beginning to believe I didn't belong here! I must be the only born-again, conservative christian in the lot!! And to think. . .I'm an APing, baby wearing, cloth diapering, homeschooling, family bedding, dairy free, extended breastfeeding mama! But, seriously, I'll stone the Ezzo's with you!


----------



## radish

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Morwenna*























The info. is there if you are curious--I was and learned something from it!

I don't feel it's judgemental at all--if you are not interested, don't click!

I use wool, and beeswax, and lanolin--and Dana still loves me









I am not put off by her site, or anyone else's as long as you are not hit over the head with political or religious messages. I think it's nice, when tastefully done--you get a real feeling for that person--it would be boring if we were all the same, very bland









We ALL love you Morwenna.

And excellent post Teri!! i agree it is hard to know the whole picture.

Whenever I catch myself doing something non-crunchy I think, "I hope I dont run into anyone I know OR I hope people dont judge ME b/c I am drinking a soda (which I hardly ever do)." I know how easy to judge because I DO IT TOO! I working on it (have been for a while).


----------



## kblue

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thefeasetree*
Yeah. . .aren't "christian" and "Attachment parenting" oxymorons? What about "conservative" and "crunchy?" Aw, man. I've been accused of being a "granola christian," too. I just don't fit in anywhere!









I was beginning to believe I didn't belong here! I must be the only born-again, conservative christian in the lot!! And to think. . .I'm an APing, baby wearing, cloth diapering, homeschooling, family bedding, dairy free, extended breastfeeding mama! But, seriously, I'll stone the Ezzo's with you!
















You aren't alone, mama.


----------



## LoveBaby

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thefeasetree*
Yeah. . .aren't "christian" and "Attachment parenting" oxymorons? What about "conservative" and "crunchy?" Aw, man. I've been accused of being a "granola christian," too. I just don't fit in anywhere!









I was beginning to believe I didn't belong here! I must be the only born-again, conservative christian in the lot!! And to think. . .I'm an APing, baby wearing, cloth diapering, homeschooling, family bedding, dairy free, extended breastfeeding mama! But, seriously, I'll stone the Ezzo's with you!

















me,too, mama! (except for the dairy-free part







: )


----------



## ShadowMom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scrappinmomof3*
Amen.

I think this thread, while interesting, could potentially become very damaging to some WAHM businesses. The comment of the list of dead-beat customers... not sure where that is, but I am sure the WAHM who has a list that lists her in progress customs is scratching her head right now, wondering where the words "dead-beat" came up. Come on. Dead-beat customers? Seriously? Sure, there are customers who don't pay. So why can't that be reflected?

Just to clarify - the list I was talking about was not a list of customs in progress, it's a list of people who have ordered items from the WAHM and promised to pay her (i.e. won an ebay auction) and have failed to do so.

For me, personally, that is a turn-off. I decided not to buy from that WAHM as soon as I saw this info because it is extremely unprofessional information to have on a business web site.

I am a little disturbed by where this thread has gone... I would NEVER stop buying from a WAHM because she's "not AP" or something like that. I mean, what if she hasn't had access to the same info I have? What if she bottlefeeds because she didn't have a support network around? What if she uses sposies because her darn cloth diaper business has taken off to the degree that she no longer has time for laundry?

Some of y'all have some awfully strict standards for WAHM's.







To be honest, I don't think it's fair to them. By their nature, some WAHM's may not even have college degrees or have had access to a lot of education, so I don't think it's really fair to boycott one because she shops at WalMart, or has different beliefs (within reason), or whatever. Maybe if she had access to the same info, she'd have your opinions (or maybe not, it's a free world!).

I







our WAHM's and I hope they still feel comfortable coming to MDC and posting after this. I've seen several WAHM's post their opinions on MDC about stuff, and I've disagreed with plenty of them, but it's pretty rare for it to make me not want to buy from them.








I'm rambling.


----------



## ShadowMom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *425lisamarie*
Teri - I just wanted to comment on your post because it was refreshing to hear. I've pretty much left mothering for the time being because I just cannot stand all the self rightousness I've run into lately. Not that it is mothering as a whole, but I've been turned off lately by a couple people who were so stinking rude to me it's ridiculous.

I was just happy to hear your post, because I get so sick of feeling around here that I'm not "up to par" because I use a stroller now that DS is 13 months, and I eat meat and drink lots of cow's milk, and ust Tide in my wash. I've recently stopped being quite as obsessed with not using anything at all that could be interpreted as bad for the environment.

Anyways, I haven't posted here in a while but thought you deserved it.

Personally, anyone who is good to their children gets my vote. I could care less what they do, as long as they put their children above all else.


Sorry you're not around more.


----------



## umefey

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spatulagirl*
I understand what you are saying Meredith. I don't think this is about judging but about shopping based on our beleifs.

I for one don't care about formula or breast, what religion (DH does but he doesn't buy the diapers!) etc. I would not buy from someone who gave a % of regular sales to a charity I don't support and if there is any Ezzo/Pearl reference I would be out of there.

make sense? I try to be an informed consumer and do the best I can, just like any mama.

This totally deserved a repeat. So well said spatulagirl.


----------



## stacey0402

I totally agree with Meredith, Christina, Morwenna, and Teri. Furthermore, I don't think its fair to pass judgement on wahms for their personal beliefs. I want a good quality product. period. I'm tired of people thinking that just because you post a little info about yourself on the internet you have waived your right to not being judged. Does somebody who boycotts a wahm because she doesn't practice AP make every effort to buy only from moms who openly practice AP? How do you know they really do practice AP? What percentage of their actions must be AP/Christian/anti GWB/pro-kitten eating for their business to be worthy of your patronage? Will you buy from a wahm if you don't know their parenting style/religion/political views? Seems like a slippery slope to me. There are people out there doing things I don't necessarily agree with, but that doesn't mean I can't learn anything from them.

I love, embrace, and respect individuality. I often buy products from wahm's with differing belief systems. I give what I want in return, and I try to teach by example. So my answer to the OP is, no.


----------



## Sustainer

People have many rights, but "not being judged" isn't among them. Supporting businesses that share their values is, however. It's one thing to say that I should learn from people whose views oppose my own. It's another thing to say I should give them my money.


----------



## boingo82

Yeah, may as well say everyone should support Nestle even though they have differing views.


----------



## *~*SewHappyNow*~*

Supporting mothers so they can be home with their babies and getting a quality product is enough for me. I don't really see corporate politics or forgein affairs and WAHMs in the same light. I assume most of you drive cars, own cars, own appliances, electronics, furniture, clothing, etc.. that was made by some big corporation, that uses some non-renewable resource, were made in some forgein country with questionable civil laws/trade practices/etc....

my point is why put WAHMs under such a powerful microscope? most WAHMs are most likely 100x more ethical than any CEO out there :LOL

Isn't it enough to help a mother stay home for her babies?

whoever it was that said they won't shop WAHMs who use the profits to support their crack habit, I totally agree!


----------



## stacey0402

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sustainer*
People have many rights, but "not being judged" isn't among them. Supporting businesses that share their values is, however. It's one thing to say that I should learn from people whose views oppose my own. It's another thing to say I should give them my money.

Maybe I didn't say it well, but that's not what I meant. I don't think you "should" give money to people with different values. That feels a lot like saying you "should" give money to people with similar values, and I clearly don't share that opinion. I also don't think that "not being judged" is a right (although it does appear that I said that earlier). I just resent the idea that sharing a few details about my life on the internet paints a complete picture of me and my beliefs. I know that these types of judgements are fair game on the internet and any public domain, but they still make me very uncomfortable.

If the wahm is making a quality product using the types of materials that I desire, I will buy her prodcut. That's all there is to it for me. I believe in buying locally, using materials with low environmental impact, and buying only what you need (Hey...I'm a work in progress







).


----------



## stacey0402

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boingo82*
Yeah, may as well say everyone should support Nestle even though they have differing views.

wow, that's a stretch don't you think? Not even close to what I was trying to say. I am dumbfounded that you could pull that out of anything in this thread.

Nestle=Wahm that feels differently than I do about Babywearing


----------



## marnie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KristiMetz*
...By their nature, some WAHM's may not even have college degrees or have had access to a lot of education, so I don't think it's really fair to boycott one because she shops at WalMart, or has different beliefs (within reason), or whatever. Maybe if she had access to the same info, she'd have your opinions (or maybe not, it's a free world!)....

by their nature? what is the *nature* of a WAHM that makes it any less likely that she's had a college education or "access to a lot of education"?

I don't know every WAHM out there, but i know a few. And i know of people with all levels of education from those who never finished high school through more than one JD. I know of Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Pagans, Jews, atheists, agnostics, humanists. I know WAHMS who are straight, gay, and bisexual. I know WAHMs of all racial backgrounds. I know WAHMs who live and have lived in all corners of the earth. I know of moms of 8 and moms who feel their family complete after one child. I know single moms, married moms, divorced moms, widowed moms. I know moms in lifetime partnerships who choose not to marry. I know of vegans and carnivores. I know WAHMs who are former military and those who are military wives as well as those who are militant pacifists. I know WAHMs of all ages. I know republicans, democrats, communists, socialists, independents, and i suspect a few anarchists, too. I know fat moms and skinny moms, some disabled moms, too. I know some really really smart WAHMs, and a few not so bright ones, as well. Lots of them I like, several of them I don't. Some i would invite into my home (and have) and some I would rather not sit around and share a cup of coffee with.

I do not know of any "nature" of a WAHM.


----------



## boingo82

My opinion is that I reserve the right to not purchase anything from any one person or company for ANY reason.

This is not going to be superficial stuff - like not buying from a vegan when I like meat...or not buying from someone who has 8 kids because I think 2 is plenty...or not buying from someone who drinks Dasani because I like Evian. (All made-up examples)
However it's still my perogative to decide not to purchase for any reason I want!


----------



## IdentityCrisisMama

Quote:


Originally Posted by **~*SewHappyNow*~**
most WAHMs are most likely 100x more ethical than any CEO out there :LOL

That's true, for sure and a good point. For some of us, though (and forgive me if this is only a diaper related topic ~ I think it's relevant to many of the NFL consumption topics) it's not a matter of choosing a big business product over privately owned or WAHM source. It's a matter of choosing one WAHM or private company over another.

I would say that anyone choosing WAHM products partially because they want to support a working mother and private business is making a choice based on ethics. That's great, IMO. I don't think everyone's ethics need to be the same as mine ~ it's just comforting to know that so many of us use them when consuming.


----------



## *~*SewHappyNow*~*

Quote:

Originally Posted by KristiMetz
...By their nature, some WAHM's may not even have college degrees or have had access to a lot of education, so I don't think it's really fair to boycott one because she shops at WalMart, or has different beliefs (within reason), or whatever. Maybe if she had access to the same info, she'd have your opinions (or maybe not, it's a free world!)








umm by their nature?
I happen to know a number of diaper WAHMs and some are lawyers, nurses, chemists, pharmacists, teachers, journalists, professors, editors, etc.. most have at least a 4 year degree that I know... most have traveled extensively and abroad... and most are more computer savvy than your average person on the street...

so I don't know just what you're trying to say.. but most are not some country hick who just fell off the pumpkin truck.. if that is what you're trying to say.


----------



## IdentityCrisisMama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boingo82*
...or not buying from someone who drinks Dasani because I like Evian.

I know you're just giving hypothetical here but Evian is owned by Nestle. I just thought that was funny considering the other posts.


----------



## Danahen

Quote:

By their nature, some WAHM's may not even have college degrees or have had access to a lot of education
Kay, I loved your post, but this part cracked me up. I *totally* get what you're saying, but in reality most of the WAHMs I know are highly educated or trained in another field (including myself).


----------



## didelphus

For some reason I keep picturing some sleezy chain-smoking whiskey-drinking WAHM talking on the phone and eating Nestle' crunches while trying to sew some diapers (probably wearing a snow leopard fur coat, too). She's cursing because she got yet another cigarette burn in the fabric. Of course her kids are glued to the tv the whole time and she's feeding them chicken nuggets and kool aid. Or better yet, perhaps she has her kids and the neighbor kids slaving away for her doing long hours for no pay.
Seriously, how bad could a diaper WAHM be? I just don't perceive them as deviant with odd morals and undesireable business practices.








That being said, I believe I have the right to spend my money where ever I want to. If I don't like the color scheme of a WAHM's website I could refuse to spend my money there!


----------



## allformyboys

Well if you guys are judging on soda drinking as not being 'natural' we are in trouble, because without my mountian dew and/or pepsi I could never stay up until 2-3 am finishing things....like knitting....or the new Harry Potter book....as the case may be....LOL Seriously I don't think this post was about being THAT picky, I think it isn't about being 'crunchy' or not, it is more about having the same type of values where we put our kids (or family) first, and not supporting people like Ezzo. I wouldn't support a WAHM that was giving a portion of her proceeds to the "Club a baby seal club" but I would buy from one that had different views on even strong issues (like circ or babywearing even). Honestly anyone that is picky to the point that she will boycot me because I shop at Walmart, or because I weaned my first son at 6 months (didn't know better) then I am pretty sure I don't want her as a customer, could you imagine how hard she would be to please?

As Oprah says "when you know better you do better" so I wouldn't judge the WAHM for not being AP, now being a hypocrite is different, the person I mentioned in my former post isn't an MDC momma, she isn't a WAHM most of you would know, I knew her before she was a WAHM and I thought we had similar parenting styles (online) but after spending time with her IRL I found out that she doesn't practice what she preaches at all. It dissapointed me, and I tried to help her out and let her know how I felt, we have just kind of grown apart. So the reason I wouldn't buy from her isn't because she uses sposies and isn't AP, but because she basically LIES about being so to make a buck (and has said so) there is another WAHM that uses religion to get sales, she has been blatent about saying that she would tell anyone anything as long as it sold diapers. I don't agree with that type of business practice so I wouldn't buy from her (I am fine with religion, but I wouldn't waffle on my own religion to make a sale, and I wouldn't exploite others to make a sale either). Luckily most WAHM's that live their lives like this don't last too long, they are either outed (by themselves usually) or they build up too much bad karma and end up just going away.







The universe evens out...I am not worried, IMO there is someone in charge who knows what they are doing.


----------



## danaalex

beating a dead horse here, but i had to post.

ASSuming you know how a wahm lives her life is just wrong. you might get a brief look into her life on a board like this, or by reading her blog or website, but until you actually KNOW that person you can't ASSume to know how she lives.

and while many of you are creating a list of wahms you will no longer buy from because you ASSume she has certain political beliefs, or a certain lifestyle she follows, be aware that there are wahms that are going to start a list of customers they won't sell to because of threads just like this one.

whomever said that she thought some wahms were not educated, did you all know that one of more popular soaker making wahms is also a WORKING engineer? some of them were in the health care field, some in the arts.

you have a right to shop where ever you want. you can boycott wahms if you chose, no one is going to stop you from doing that. but you will NEVER see me posting publically stating that i am going to boycott a wahm because of beliefs or a lifestyle i ASSume she has.


----------



## Kari_mom

Quote:


Originally Posted by **~*SewHappyNow*~**
Isn't it enough to help a mother stay home for her babies?

Isn't that as much a stereotype and judgement as not buying from a WAHM because she isn't AP? I don't really know whether a WAHM is a WAHM to stay home for her babies, or to have a hobby, or to support her wool habit, or to share a lifestyle with other likeminded moms, or a number of other reasons given when WAHMs say why they are WAHMs. For many mothers their WAHM business does make the difference in getting through the month. For others, it does not. I don't always know the difference, and I don't really care.

I do like supporting women, small businesses, and handcrafted goods. Many WAHMs fit these criteria, so I buy from them.

On another note. I did say that there are WAHMs I don't patronize because they aren't AP. Let me clarify. I didn't figure out that they weren't AP on my own. They posted that they weren't AP on another board AND said that they posted on Mothering because it made business sense. Unkind things were said about AP. So I feel pretty confident that I didn't overassume anything, and don't care to spend my money with them. But I still treat them equally on Mothering in the hopes they will see the advantages of AP.


----------



## Mrs Dimples

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allformyboys*
Well if you guys are judging on soda drinking as not being 'natural' we are in trouble, because without my mountian dew and/or pepsi I could never stay up until 2-3 am finishing things....like knitting....or the new Harry Potter book....as the case may be....LOL Seriously I don't think this post was about being THAT picky, I think it isn't about being 'crunchy' or not, it is more about having the same type of values where we put our kids (or family) first, and not supporting people like Ezzo. I wouldn't support a WAHM that was giving a portion of her proceeds to the "Club a baby seal club" but I would buy from one that had different views on even strong issues (like circ or babywearing even). Honestly anyone that is picky to the point that she will boycot me because I shop at Walmart, or because I weaned my first son at 6 months (didn't know better) then I am pretty sure I don't want her as a customer, could you imagine how hard she would be to please?









: This whole paragraph made me laugh!







:


----------



## zaksma

I haven't read all the posts so I may be repeating something- but I wanted to add my critieria for WAHMs. I hold them to the same standards as any other small business that I frequent. If I hear of a WAHM who treats my CDing friends in a rude manner, then I am not going to buy from her. That has happened to a couple of friends of mine VERY recently. If the WAHM has problems with her customer service to the point that she needs to feel like she needs to get rude and defensive over an issue that is very small and caused mostly by her- then that's it, never gonna buy from her. If a WAHM has problems shipping stuff in a timely manner (like weeks longer than she states on her website), then I'm not gonna order form her either. I shop that way IRL and I think that to buy from a WAHM with substandard customer service is doing a disservice to that WAHM (who will never improve if people keep buying) and to others who buy CDs.

As for ethics, I just assume that they aren't mass murderers and to be honest, that's good enough for me. As long as they're not advertising for sticks to use to beat your children or selling Ezzo, then I am fine with them..


----------



## ShadowMom

Quote:


Originally Posted by **~*SewHappyNow*~**







umm by their nature?
I happen to know a number of diaper WAHMs and some are lawyers, nurses, chemists, pharmacists, teachers, journalists, professors, editors, etc.. most have at least a 4 year degree that I know... most have traveled extensively and abroad... and most are more computer savvy than your average person on the street...

so I don't know just what you're trying to say.. but most are not some country hick who just fell off the pumpkin truck.. if that is what you're trying to say.

OOPS, you caught me. I actually believe WAHM's are all country hicks, even though I am one.







Although being who I am, it wouldn't surprise me if I fell off a pumpkin truck, should I ever happen to be on one.

My point is that, many WAHM's have varying levels of education, but those were probably mostly obtained BEFORE they became a WAHM.

Many WAHM's don't have a lot of time to surf the 'net, doing research on politics, parenting, or what have you. I'm just guessing here.







In fact I imagine many SAHM's don't have time for this either. I read a thread recently on thebabywearer.com about WAHM's who get up at 7 a.m. and are on the go until midnight!

So, my point is most WAHM's and SAHM's may not have a lot of time to, say, watch the news, then go spend hours researching various issues they see there, or whatever is required to have in-depth knowledge of whatever topic is being used by customers to determine who they'll shop with.

I figured that the comment would be vastly misinterpreted though... That's what the Internet is all about.


----------



## Danahen

It's all about the multi-tasking :LOL . Had I known when I was 20 years old that I could nurse/type/phone/run all at the same time, I think I'd pass out. And THANK GOD for my dh, he's Mr. Mom when he comes home, so I do get my research time in. What I'm researching is up for debate







.

This is why I wish I could meet my customers in person! I wish I had a real store, it would be so much better!









edited to say... I'm going to harp on the vegan thing again real quick by adding that my husband is a hunter, and I still love him just the same.


----------



## *~*SewHappyNow*~*

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KristiMetz*
OOPS, you caught me. I actually believe WAHM's are all country hicks, even though I am one.







Although being who I am, it wouldn't surprise me if I fell off a pumpkin truck, should I ever happen to be on one.

My point is that, many WAHM's have varying levels of education, but those were probably mostly obtained BEFORE they became a WAHM.

Many WAHM's don't have a lot of time to surf the 'net, doing research on politics, parenting, or what have you. I'm just guessing here.







In fact I imagine many SAHM's don't have time for this either. I read a thread recently on thebabywearer.com about WAHM's who get up at 7 a.m. and are on the go until midnight!

So, my point is most WAHM's and SAHM's may not have a lot of time to, say, watch the news, then go spend hours researching various issues they see there, or whatever is required to have in-depth knowledge of whatever topic is being used by customers to determine who they'll shop with.

I figured that the comment would be vastly misinterpreted though... That's what the Internet is all about.


sorry to jump on your quote like that, but i didnt want anyone getting the wrong ideas about WAHMs.. nothing personal.


----------



## Momto2boysNagirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zaksma*
I haven't read all the posts so I may be repeating something- but I wanted to add my critieria for WAHMs. I hold them to the same standards as any other small business that I frequent. If I hear of a WAHM who treats my CDing friends in a rude manner, then I am not going to buy from her. That has happened to a couple of friends of mine VERY recently. If the WAHM has problems with her customer service to the point that she needs to feel like she needs to get rude and defensive over an issue that is very small and caused mostly by her- then that's it, never gonna buy from her. If a WAHM has problems shipping stuff in a timely manner (like weeks longer than she states on her website), then I'm not gonna order form her either. I shop that way IRL and I think that to buy from a WAHM with substandard customer service is doing a disservice to that WAHM (who will never improve if people keep buying) and to others who buy CDs.

As for ethics, I just assume that they aren't mass murderers and to be honest, that's good enough for me. As long as they're not advertising for sticks to use to beat your children or selling Ezzo, then I am fine with them..









:


----------



## DreamingMama

Quote:


Originally Posted by **~*SewHappyNow*~**







umm by their nature?
I happen to know a number of diaper WAHMs and some are lawyers, nurses, chemists, pharmacists, teachers, journalists, professors, editors, etc.. most have at least a 4 year degree that I know... most have traveled extensively and abroad... and most are more computer savvy than your average person on the street...

so I don't know just what you're trying to say.. but most are not some country hick who just fell off the pumpkin truck.. if that is what you're trying to say.

LOL! So true, I have an accounting degree! I have also lived in Europe and the USA as well as Canada. I was born and raised in the cities of the world, I never lived in the country although I did live with my uncle on a farm for two months of my life. The nature of a wahm is everything you can imagine. We are many different things and we are all mamas.

I just wanted to add that for me wahms have a whole different set of standards then any other business. These business's are not like any other and therefore cannot be treated as such from the consumer standpoint nor the wahm standpoint.


----------



## mrspeeper

Yup, me too. Otherwise I feel like I would be getting overly judgemental. I don't think a WAHM's personal detailed beliefs are much of my business, I just like that they are trying to support their family by staying home with their kids, as well as doing something great for the environment.


----------



## Finnzoo

I am sure this has been said. The only people I dont buy from are those with bad products, bad customer service, and if they rip people off, which would fall under unethical. I dont care about their political views or religion. Many people buy from wahms, even if it costs more, because they would rather support a mom/dad that is staying home with their kids. I live in the boonies. If I didnt have Walmart, I would have almost no place to shop. We shop out of town alot, but that is not always feasible. We try to support our local businesses, but most of the stores do not have the items we need or in our size, etc. Buying online is not always practical when you need wood, shower enclosure, roof, and the local businesses do not have it. Or if they do, it is so high, you could drive 2 hours and buy it and still be ahead. Sometimes you do what you can to support the smaller businesses but when there are monetary challenges, you have to do what you can to support your family. Family will always come first.


----------



## LizaBear

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spatulagirl*
So, I want to know if you apply the same decision making when shopping for diapers as you might when shopping for other things. No naming names of course!

To an extent.

If a WAHM makes it known that she supports charity "X", I'm likely to note that and when I'm looking for a product, go to her.

If a WAHM makes it known she supports something I am vehmently against, I'm likely to close her site down and not go back.

Heck, if a WAHM's website looks cruddy or is hard to navigate, I'm not likely to go back either.

I'm the consumer, it's MY decision where my money gets spent, and what criteria I use to choose where I spend is up to me.


----------



## umefey

Quote:


Originally Posted by *danaalex*
ASSuming you know how a wahm lives her life is just wrong. you might get a brief look into her life on a board like this, or by reading her blog or website, but until you actually KNOW that person you can't ASSume to know how she lives.

I couldn't not reply to this.
Here's the deal. I don't think that ANYONE won't buy from a WAHM because in her *personal* life she drinks Pepsi and watches telly. That's none of our business.
If a WAHM puts information on her *company* website talking about religion, what charities a % goes to, personal beliefs, how things are made or anything else she/he is aligning those strong beliefs with her *company*
and I think that that gives us (the consumer) the go ahead to either be
a. More enthusiastic about the products/company because their beliefs/ethics jive with yours
or
b. Shy away because the things stated aren't your cup of tea.

If I see something on MDC from a WAHM (who has a siggie ad) talking about how she buys every scrap of her *business* supplies at Walmart, I am likely not to purchase those products.
If I see an MDC WAHM (again w/ siggie) talking about how she buys her *personal* groceries at Walmart, it doesn't change how I feel about that WAHMs *company*.

See where this is going?
Person and Company are two seperate entities.


----------



## JohnnysGirl

People keep saying, 'as long as she's trying to support staying home with her babies' but they seem to be ignoring the fact that a lot of WAHMs are also WOHMs. I was shocked the first time I discovered that some diaper-making WAHM worked full time out of the home, not because that's a terrible thing but I had just *assumed* that sewing/knitting WAHMs all stayed home with their children. A year later, I know that it's not the case, and I must admit I'm more interested in patronizing mamas who care for their kiddos by day, and sew/knit when their kids are sleeping, busily playing with each other, or being cared for by dad/relative/mommy's helper.


----------



## Rebecca

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KristiMetz*
My point is that, many WAHM's have varying levels of education, but those were probably mostly obtained BEFORE they became a WAHM.

What do you mean by this? Do our brains disintegrate because we have children and are no longer working in a profession outside the home? Must everyone fill their lives with continuing ed classes to be informed of worldly events??

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KristiMetz*
Many WAHM's don't have a lot of time to surf the 'net, doing research on politics, parenting, or what have you. I'm just guessing here.







In fact I imagine many SAHM's don't have time for this either. I read a thread recently on thebabywearer.com about WAHM's who get up at 7 a.m. and are on the go until midnight!

So, my point is most WAHM's and SAHM's may not have a lot of time to, say, watch the news, then go spend hours researching various issues they see there, or whatever is required to have in-depth knowledge of whatever topic is being used by customers to determine who they'll shop with.

You can't be serious about all this. Many of us are not only very educated (we don't lose our education just because we are no longer in the WOH workforce~our degrees stay with us for life you know, as well as any professional affiliations we may still have) and many of us are VERY much politically aware and active. Many of us are so obsessed with our parenting that we've created businesses to help others do what we do. In fact, many of us know our customers SO well that we can reach our target audience very successfully and do quite well. We are educated and aware enough to know when to shut up about our political beliefs on message boards where our biz name may be associated with particular views.

I'm insulted by your insinuation that 'many wahms' are clueless, probably uneducated and ignorant about the world because we're so busy or maybe because we can't manage to get a real job? I for one can tell you that one of the reasons my output is so scanty is that I have a TV and a radio in my workshop and I'm always listening to FOX news, NPR, PBS, Discovery channel, netflix documentaries or what have you. I'm really hoping I misread your post because surely you didn't mean to offend 'many' wahms who are doing a good job of being balanced in our family, work, and community lives.

I can't believe I took the time to reply to this and annoyed that I let it get to me. I'm off to go bury my head.


----------



## Leilalu

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thefeasetree*
Yeah. . .aren't "christian" and "Attachment parenting" oxymorons? What about "conservative" and "crunchy?" Aw, man. I've been accused of being a "granola christian," too. I just don't fit in anywhere!









I was beginning to believe I didn't belong here! I must be the only born-again, conservative christian in the lot!! And to think. . .I'm an APing, baby wearing, cloth diapering, homeschooling, family bedding, dairy free, extended breastfeeding mama! But, seriously, I'll stone the Ezzo's with you!

















kind of a side note here....but how are "Christian" and "AP parenting" oxymorons? I am devout in my Christian beliefs and feel that AP is actually the way God designed things







I think maybe I don't understand you:LOL I to feel I am alone. I am one of the only women at church(BIG church) who wears a sling. And the women who started,just a few, did so because of me!We all hang out in the nursing moms room and have church/playgroup.lol


----------



## Leilalu

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Butterflymom*
People keep saying, 'as long as she's trying to support staying home with her babies' but they seem to be ignoring the fact that a lot of WAHMs are also WOHMs. I was shocked the first time I discovered that some diaper-making WAHM worked full time out of the home, not because that's a terrible thing but I had just *assumed* that sewing/knitting WAHMs all stayed home with their children. A year later, I know that it's not the case, and I must admit I'm more interested in patronizing mamas who care for their kiddos by day, and sew/knit when their kids are sleeping, busily playing with each other, or being cared for by dad/relative/mommy's helper.


yep







.Same here. WELL SAID.


----------



## MissSugarKane

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Butterflymom*
People keep saying, 'as long as she's trying to support staying home with her babies' but they seem to be ignoring the fact that a lot of WAHMs are also WOHMs. I was shocked the first time I discovered that some diaper-making WAHM worked full time out of the home, not because that's a terrible thing but I had just *assumed* that sewing/knitting WAHMs all stayed home with their children. A year later, I know that it's not the case, and I must admit I'm more interested in patronizing mamas who care for their kiddos by day, and sew/knit when their kids are sleeping, busily playing with each other, or being cared for by dad/relative/mommy's helper.

Ouch. Okay I try to not get caught up in diaper drama anymore and just sit back and watch but wow I am offended by that post.

I know of several single parent WAHMs that have to work outside the home to make a living, a few considered hyena too.

So now WAHMs that don't have husband's to support them and are on their own to finacially run a household are looked at as not being shopping worthy? Some do not have the option of staying home full time.

I know I have mentioned before that I work outside the home.So now some will not shop with me? Just to show you how judgemental that is I actually have a job where I get to bring my son with me. So he is with me full time. Some are not as lucky to have a job where they can do that but they are doing the best they can in the situation they are in.

I am not writing a very well spoken or thought out response right now as I am so flippin' mad and trying to bite my tongue.








:


----------



## elsie

Yes to a point - if their website or reviews had something in them that raised a red flag, I would not buy from them. I don't think I could buy from someone who was giving the money to a cause I did not support either. But I would only know that if they told me. I would not do any extensive searching to find it out.

Currently there are only two WAHMs I would not buy from - both due to ignorant/racist comments they made on a board that deeply offended me. But for me, it became a personal issue. I would also give a WAHM the befenit of a doubt and more leeway than any big corperation.


----------



## boingo82

Quote:


Originally Posted by *umefey*
I couldn't not reply to this.
Here's the deal. I don't think that ANYONE won't buy from a WAHM because in her *personal* life she drinks Pepsi and watches telly. That's none of our business.
If a WAHM puts information on her *company* website talking about religion, what charities a % goes to, personal beliefs, how things are made or anything else she/he is aligning those strong beliefs with her *company*
and I think that that gives us (the consumer) the go ahead to either be
a. More enthusiastic about the products/company because their beliefs/ethics jive with yours
or
b. Shy away because the things stated aren't your cup of tea.

If I see something on MDC from a WAHM (who has a siggie ad) talking about how she buys every scrap of her *business* supplies at Walmart, I am likely not to purchase those products.
If I see an MDC WAHM (again w/ siggie) talking about how she buys her *personal* groceries at Walmart, it doesn't change how I feel about that WAHMs *company*.

See where this is going?
Person and Company are two seperate entities.


That is what I wanted to say but could not figure out how to explain! BRAVO!


----------



## *~*SewHappyNow*~*

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Butterflymom*
People keep saying, 'as long as she's trying to support staying home with her babies' but they seem to be ignoring the fact that a lot of WAHMs are also WOHMs. I was shocked the first time I discovered that some diaper-making WAHM worked full time out of the home, not because that's a terrible thing but I had just *assumed* that sewing/knitting WAHMs all stayed home with their children. A year later, I know that it's not the case, and I must admit I'm more interested in patronizing mamas who care for their kiddos by day, and sew/knit when their kids are sleeping, busily playing with each other, or being cared for by dad/relative/mommy's helper.

wow... my dh is a SAHD and I am a part time WOHM/WAHM do I get some sort of special credit for that?


----------



## JohnnysGirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MissSugarKane*
So now WAHMs that don't have husband's to support them and are on their own to finacially run a household are looked at as not being shopping worthy? Some do not have the option of staying home full time.









Jamie, I'm sorry I offended you. I view Single WAHMs as being in an especially tough situation, one that I do not envy. My mom was a single working mom, and I have deep respect for women trying to do best by their kiddos whilst on their own to support their child/children.

What I meant was that I simply get warm fuzzies from a mama doing everything she can to avoid putting her child into daycare (where a professional, who isn't at all personally invested in the child, is paid to care for the child full time). You would fit that qualification as well!







It's simply a personal thing for me, that I truly enjoy knowing that my patronage with a WAHM is helping it be possible for her kids not to be sent to daycare all day so that mama can earn income outside of the home. I don't condemn those who are WOHMs with their kiddos in daycare, but I do get







excited about the opposite. Make sense?


----------



## Meisubaby

There is one WAHM that I have quit buying from after finding out what she believes in and belongs to. I can't support someone who believes in something so strongly that I disagree with. I would rather my money go to a mother who needs it and is more like me rather than someone who practices things I feel are wrong. Since I have found out about this WAHM I now try to research other WAHMs a little more thoroughly. I don't care for sites that advertise things that are nothing in common with what I am purchasing either. If I am buying diapers or clothes from the site I don't need to see anything on there telling me to buy tapes or videos or religious sites.Not everyone is that religion and some people are bothered by certain religions beliefs. I guess what I am saying is that I would buy from someone who is more like me rather than someone who believes in everything I disagree with.Thats just my 2 cents worth.


----------



## JohnnysGirl

Karen, please read the previous post I just addressed to Jamie. I repeat, I do not condemn mamas who work outside the home. I simply heartily relate with any parents who are trying to avoid a situation where it is necessary for their babes to be put into a full time professional daycare setting. So, since your kiddos are at home full time, with a combination of care from your husband and yourself, your family scenario as described gives me plenty of warm fuzzies. (NOT that you care, but that is the only issue I was trying to explain, my personal reaction to hearing information about a family's working situation and the childcare required thereof).


----------



## danaalex

Quote:


Originally Posted by *umefey*
I couldn't not reply to this.
Here's the deal. I don't think that ANYONE won't buy from a WAHM because in her *personal* life she drinks Pepsi and watches telly. That's none of our business.
If a WAHM puts information on her *company* website talking about religion, what charities a % goes to, personal beliefs, how things are made or anything else she/he is aligning those strong beliefs with her *company*
and I think that that gives us (the consumer) the go ahead to either be
a. More enthusiastic about the products/company because their beliefs/ethics jive with yours
or
b. Shy away because the things stated aren't your cup of tea.

If I see something on MDC from a WAHM (who has a siggie ad) talking about how she buys every scrap of her *business* supplies at Walmart, I am likely not to purchase those products.
If I see an MDC WAHM (again w/ siggie) talking about how she buys her *personal* groceries at Walmart, it doesn't change how I feel about that WAHMs *company*.

See where this is going?
Person and Company are two seperate entities.

like i said,you're more than welcome to not buy from any wahm that you don't want to buy from ( for whatever reason it might be). it's a free country. i wonder though, what would happen if the wahms reading this thread or other threads around MDC decided they didn't like the ethics, morals, etc of the people posting ( based on the posts and not KNOWING the person IRL). do you think you'd be able to shop without being turned away by someone? if ladies at MDC are going to boycott wahms for their beliefs and ethics, can the wahms boycott the shoppers for the same reason?

people are generalizing, even if their thought are directed at one wahm, they are stating. "i will not buy from a wahm that ____________." so, if a wahm that ______________ reads that, they might be so inclined not to honor a purchase from said poster.

i KNOW that person and company are two separate things, but i don't think that a lot of the posters on this thread realize that. i think if you all start boycotting the wahms that don't live up to your standards, you are going to left with a very small amount of companies to buy from ..................


----------



## boingo82

Quote:


Originally Posted by **~*SewHappyNow*~**
wow... my dh is a SAHD and I am a part time WOHM/WAHM do I get some sort of special credit for that?

















We are hoping to be in that situation ourself in a few months. Things are just getting off the ground.
Even though we both currently work we have been fortunate enough to do alternate shifts so he was never in daycare.
In fact he's only been babysat 3x, all less than 2.5 hours, and by my parents whom he adores.


----------



## spatulagirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *danaalex*
like i said,you're more than welcome to not buy from any wahm that you don't want to buy from ( for whatever reason it might be). it's a free country. i wonder though, what would happen if the wahms reading this thread or other threads around MDC decided they didn't like the ethics, morals, etc of the people posting ( based on the posts and not KNOWING the person IRL). do you think you'd be able to shop without being turned away by someone? if ladies at MDC are going to boycott wahms for their beliefs and ethics, can the wahms boycott the shoppers for the same reason?

people are generalizing, even if their thought are directed at one wahm, they are stating. "i will not buy from a wahm that ____________." so, if a wahm that ______________ reads that, they might be so inclined not to honor a purchase from said poster.

i KNOW that person and company are two separate things, but i don't think that a lot of the posters on this thread realize that. i think if you all start boycotting the wahms that don't live up to your standards, you are going to left with a very small amount of companies to buy from ..................

nak but I do know a few WAHMs who won't sell to certain people. So sure, it can be done! And truthfully, I think WAHMs have that right as well.


----------



## ~*~MamaJava~*~

Well.

I don't worry too much about WAHM's personal lives. I am interested in the product and the price.
I am slightly more likely to buy from someone who shares my personal views, but only slightly.

That being said --

It's really unpleasant being hated for who you are.

It's funny - most people on MDC say that they are super tolerant, very accepting, love everyone types, but they certainly aren't.

I'm feeling a lot of dislike here as a Christian, conservative, pro-life mama. It happens every day visiting MDC. Threads like this make me want to leave. But since I am a nasty bigot who hates people, maybe I'd better.







Some of you might benefit from understanding that many conservatives have the views they do but do not hate homosexuals or Iraqis or poor people. We may not agree with everyone's lifestyle but that does NOT mean we don't love the people as they are.

WAHMs, I like your Bible verses







Keep on spreading the news.

I would suggest that this thread be closed. I think it's going to hurt a lot of WAHMs feelings. If you are super picky about whom you buy from based on their personal life, you should keep it to yourself.


----------



## binxsmom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spatulagirl*
nak but I do know a few WAHMs who won't sell to certain people. So sure, it can be done! And truthfully, I think WAHMs have that right as well.


well, if some of these wahms get together and quit selling to me, my husband could prolly retire 10 years earlier. :LOL


----------



## Leilalu

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~*~MamaJava~*~*
Well.

I don't worry too much about WAHM's personal lives. I am interested in the product and the price.
I am slightly more likely to buy from someone who shares my personal views, but only slightly.

That being said --

It's really unpleasant being hated for who you are.

It's funny - most people on MDC say that they are super tolerant, very accepting, love everyone types, but they certainly aren't.

I'm feeling a lot of dislike here as a Christian, conservative, pro-life mama. It happens every day visiting MDC. Threads like this make me want to leave. But since I am a nasty bigot who hates people, maybe I'd better.







Some of you might benefit from understanding that many conservatives have the views they do but do not hate homosexuals or Iraqis or poor people. We may not agree with everyone's lifestyle but that does NOT mean we don't love the people as they are.

WAHMs, I like your Bible verses







Keep on spreading the news.

I would suggest that this thread be closed. I think it's going to hurt a lot of WAHMs feelings. If you are super picky about whom you buy from based on their personal life, you should keep it to yourself.









You sound alot like me








I too think this should be shut.


----------



## Mrs Dimples

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~*~MamaJava~*~*
Well.

I don't worry too much about WAHM's personal lives. I am interested in the product and the price.
I am slightly more likely to buy from someone who shares my personal views, but only slightly.

That being said --

It's really unpleasant being hated for who you are.

It's funny - most people on MDC say that they are super tolerant, very accepting, love everyone types, but they certainly aren't.

I'm feeling a lot of dislike here as a Christian, conservative, pro-life mama. It happens every day visiting MDC. Threads like this make me want to leave. But since I am a nasty bigot who hates people, maybe I'd better.







Some of you might benefit from understanding that many conservatives have the views they do but do not hate homosexuals or Iraqis or poor people. We may not agree with everyone's lifestyle but that does NOT mean we don't love the people as they are.

WAHMs, I like your Bible verses







Keep on spreading the news.

I would suggest that this thread be closed. I think it's going to hurt a lot of WAHMs feelings. If you are super picky about whom you buy from based on their personal life, you should keep it to yourself.

I don't think anyone on here was Christian-bashing.







Several people have mentioned that when Bible verses, etc, are emphasized on their site, as consumers who are not Christian, they do not feel particularly "spoken to", KWIM? And that would be correct. When someone chooses to make any kind of specific political, religious, or lifestyle statement with regard to their business, they accept the possibility that it will make some possible customers feel somewhat alienated. It may or may not be enough to drive their business away, depending on a whole bunch of other circumstances. You would feel the same way if you went to a website with a bunch of Pearl quotes, no?

And I really, really have a hard time feeling sorry for a group that is the outrageous majority in this country, in just about every situation, but maybe not such a majority on one message board on the internet. And I happen to be part of that "Christian" group.









I think that making this thread about your personal religious beliefs is taking it a little personally.


----------



## ShadowMom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rebecca*
I'm insulted by your insinuation that 'many wahms' are clueless, probably uneducated and ignorant about the world because we're so busy or maybe because we can't manage to get a real job? I for one can tell you that one of the reasons my output is so scanty is that I have a TV and a radio in my workshop and I'm always listening to FOX news, NPR, PBS, Discovery channel, netflix documentaries or what have you. I'm really hoping I misread your post because surely you didn't mean to offend 'many' wahms who are doing a good job of being balanced in our family, work, and community lives.

I can't believe I took the time to reply to this and annoyed that I let it get to me. I'm off to go bury my head.

Wow, Rebecca. Your post is just not even worth replying to, at all. You've attributed things to me that I did not say or imply in any way.


----------



## umefey

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mrs Dimples*
I don't think anyone on here was Christian-bashing.







Several people have mentioned that when Bible verses, etc, are emphasized on their site, as consumers who are not Christian, they do not feel particularly "spoken to", KWIM? And that would be correct. When someone chooses to make any kind of specific political, religious, or lifestyle statement with regard to their business, they accept the possibility that it will make some possible customers feel somewhat alienated. It may or may not be enough to drive their business away, depending on a whole bunch of other circumstances. You would feel the same way if you went to a website with a bunch of Pearl quotes, no?

And I really, really have a hard time feeling sorry for a group that is the outrageous majority in this country, in just about every situation, but maybe not such a majority on one message board on the internet. And I happen to be part of that "Christian" group.









I think that making this thread about your personal religious beliefs is taking it a little personally.









Very well said! You rock!


----------



## canadiyank

Mrs Dimples...ITA...and I, too, am Christian. Being an AP Christian who GDs is often very, very hard. But being Christian in this culture? Nah, not really. I think we as Christians are trained to see anything not blatantly *pro* Christian as anti-Christian and therefore persecution...

But sure, it's cool when I find out that a WAHM is Christian...we have a connection. Just like when I find out they have a 3 yo. Or a music degree.


----------



## jentilla

Quote:


Originally Posted by *didelphus*
For some reason I keep picturing some sleezy chain-smoking whiskey-drinking WAHM talking on the phone and eating Nestle' crunches while trying to sew some diapers (probably wearing a snow leopard fur coat, too). She's cursing because she got yet another cigarette burn in the fabric. Of course her kids are glued to the tv the whole time and she's feeding them chicken nuggets and kool aid. Or better yet, perhaps she has her kids and the neighbor kids slaving away for her doing long hours for no pay.
Seriously, how bad could a diaper WAHM be? I just don't perceive them as deviant with odd morals and undesireable business practices.








That being said, I believe I have the right to spend my money where ever I want to. If I don't like the color scheme of a WAHM's website I could refuse to spend my money there!

So basically the WAHM is Cruella Deville! :LOL :LOL :LOL
off to sew kitten and puppy skins.... la, lala lala la la laaaaaa!


----------



## amey

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~*~MamaJava~*~*
If you are super picky about whom you buy from based on their personal life, you should keep it to yourself.

While I suppose people have mention this in generics here, I don't remember anyone saying "I won't buy from Get Diapers Fast because she has Bible quotes all over her website." Honestly, if you are secure in your business model and the customer base you have, then perhaps it would be best to say "okay fine. So she won't buy from me. All these other people will, and that's fine."

WAHMS have the right (like any other company) to refuse service to any customer. I know WAHMs who have turned away business. It's a choice they make.

I'm not sure why it's a WAHM's concern why people won't buy from them. If you think it would change the way you do business, then okay.

I think it's been a difficult thread since alot of people have outlined why they won't buy from a WAHM. We haven't really heard reasons why people WILL support a WAHM in equal specifics (to continue with the religion theme that seems to be recurrent...) - I'm sure there are customers who seek out like-minded WAHMs and would be thrilled to see Biblical quotes (especially about gentle parenting







) on a website.

As so many people have said: consumers only have a limited number of dollars to spend. Some consumers want to be thoughtful about where those dollars go and will make careful, investigative choices about how their money is spent. Heck - the other day I noticed there were two brands of toothpicks available at the grocery store. Reading labels showed me one brand was made in China, the other in the US. I paid extra to buy US Made (double at that! Made in China was 50c, while US Made was $1







). I recently chose to support a WAHM by having her sew new jammies for my kids rather than buying them from Target. And so it goes.

~amey


----------



## jentilla

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Leilalu*
kind of a side note here....but how are "Christian" and "AP parenting" oxymorons? I am devout in my Christian beliefs and feel that AP is actually the way God designed things







I think maybe I don't understand you:LOL I to feel I am alone. I am one of the only women at church(BIG church) who wears a sling. And the women who started,just a few, did so because of me!We all hang out in the nursing moms room and have church/playgroup.lol


My LLL group is largely AP Christian moms who are also very crunchy.


----------



## ShadowMom

Quote:


Originally Posted by **~*SewHappyNow*~**
sorry to jump on your quote like that, but i didnt want anyone getting the wrong ideas about WAHMs.. nothing personal.









I totally understand your defensiveness. Sorry I was kinda sarcastic in my reply - I was offended someone thought I was insulting WAHM's.









I







our WAHM's and count me in as one who also thinks this thread should be closed because I don't want any WAHM's getting their feelings hurt. There's a lot of stuff being said.


----------



## Boobiemama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *didelphus*
For some reason I keep picturing some sleezy chain-smoking whiskey-drinking WAHM talking on the phone and eating Nestle' crunches while trying to sew some diapers (probably wearing a snow leopard fur coat, too). She's cursing because she got yet another cigarette burn in the fabric. Of course her kids are glued to the tv the whole time and she's feeding them chicken nuggets and kool aid. Or better yet, perhaps she has her kids and the neighbor kids slaving away for her doing long hours for no pay.

:LOL OMG! You just described me! How did you know?


----------



## amysuen

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Butterflymom*
What I meant was that I simply get warm fuzzies from a mama doing everything she can to avoid putting her child into daycare (where a professional, who isn't at all personally invested in the child, is paid to care for the child full time). You would fit that qualification as well!







It's simply a personal thing for me, that I truly enjoy knowing that my patronage with a WAHM is helping it be possible for her kids not to be sent to daycare all day so that mama can earn income outside of the home. I don't condemn those who are WOHMs with their kiddos in daycare, but I do get







excited about the opposite. Make sense?

I'm sure you didn't mean to offend ME either, but...









What about us WAHMs who own/operate professional child care centers in our homes so we can 1-Stay home with our own children, and 2-Care for someone else's child as if it were our own so they can go to work because they can't afford to stay home? I would LOVE to be a SAHM! You wouldn't believe how much I'd love to close my child care and just be a SAHM!! But we can't afford to live on my DH's salary- actually, my gross income is more than his.









When I had to put my 6 week old DD1 in daycare (because DH was a student and I brought in the only income for our family) and it wasn't a great one I realized that good child care options were needed for mamas who had (or chose to) go to work. That, and wanting to stay home with my children, is why I gave up teaching to open my child care business. I consider myself "personally invested" in each of the children I have in my care!! Most of them start as infants and stay with me until Kindergarten, or longer. They're part of my family, and vice versa, I love them like my own children. I've also gotten to know quite a few other child care providers, and most of them are attached to the children they care for too.

So I was a little upset when your posts implied that daycare is an evil thing to be avoided at all costs. I know you didn't say that, and I'm sure you didn't mean to offend, but think about what you said from my point of view...


----------



## majazama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rebecca*
...I have a TV and a radio in my workshop and I'm always listening to *FOX news*, NPR, PBS, Discovery channel, netflix documentaries or what have you.

(emphasis mine)

I hope you don't seriously think that FOX news is a reliable news outlet. I know it's totally off topic, but I am shocked by FOX news blatant lies and one-sidedness, and that anyone would watch it thinking they were getting the real "news".









~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I just have to say that money is the drive for making cloth diapers and selling them, correct? I truely think that there are very few WAHM's that would chose to not sell to a left of left wing pot-smoking mama that wanted to buy a dozen diapers. Money is money, and I don't think that WAHM's have the time to find out about all of their customers beliefs, etc. There are PLENTY of us cloth diapering moms, I think, enough to only stick with our "own kind" (if we chose to), and let the "other kind" to have their own customer base, YK?


----------



## cielle

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~*~MamaJava~*~*
Some of you might benefit from understanding that many conservatives have the views they do but do not hate homosexuals or Iraqis or poor people. We may not agree with everyone's lifestyle but that does NOT mean we don't love the people as they are.

Ah, yes, the always controversial "poor" lifestyle







:


----------



## spatulagirl

Ok, this thread wasn't intended to make people feel bad or for WAHMs to stop posting or for them to feel like drinking coke is bad and we won't buy from them because they don't drink all organic everything and no dairy. I just wanted to know if people who choose not to buy from certain companies because of XYZ reason apply the same reasoning behind diaper buying. That's it, that's all.

I do not believe we have the right to snoop around WAHMs private lives. But I do believe that we have a right to choose where our money goes. Some people don't care, others do. We all have that right to choose and that's wonderful.

I am pretty dang crunchy and I drink pop on occasion. I don't get what that has to do with anything here.

I think most people are saying everything pretty clear and in a nice fashion. It's a cool conversation to have and we are all doing it nicely. Yay for us!


----------



## *~*SewHappyNow*~*

You know the whole thing (thread) seems to be illustrating that you cannot judge a WAHM or mother based on generalities.. most of us do not fit into perfect little stereotypical neat packages. There are liberal crunchy christian CDing republicans... there are pagan conservative capitalist, pot smokers who CD... Im not sure I know any, but there has to be, right? :LOL I bet there's probably one thing about everyone that just isn't what you'd expect. I like it, I like being suprised.

the point is a little tolerence goes a long way. Isn't that what most of us want deep down is for others to tolerate our beliefs? Not everyone in this world has to be exactly like you or think exactly like you do. If everyone did this message board would be hella boring! There'd be nothing to say.. so don't go judging others and assuming you know everything they're about.


----------



## Boobiemama

I guess it comes down to what you post about yourself on your website or in a public forum is fair game.
I stay away from hot topics for this reason.

But I also think that no one can really "know" someone online. You may gather what you will from posts or whatever, but dont say you "know" what a wahm is all about. Because I can tell you no one online really knows me. For that fact, I doubt anyone in real life knows me!


----------



## JohnnysGirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amysuen*
I'm sure you didn't mean to offend ME either, but...









What about us WAHMs who own/operate professional child care centers in our homes so we can 1-Stay home with our own children, and 2-Care for someone else's child as if it were our own so they can go to work because they can't afford to stay home?









Well, my personal feelings on that (I'm sure everyone really cares! :LOL ) is that that's, by far, the best daycare scenario for a child, (next to an actual relative caring for the child). Small home-run daycares without too many children where the kiddos are there from infancy to school-age...that's so far removed from the type of 'professional daycare setting' I think of, that I'd almost consider that more a "community" arrangement, where you are becoming very intimately connected with the families of those other children by loving and caring for their kiddos over such a long period, in exchange for agreed upon compensation.... and I wouldn't even think of it as being the same thing as a traditional large daycare establishment.

Again, don't mean to judge/condemn WOHMs who use large daycares, just that, personally, I'm in favor of avoiding them if at all possible for my own children, so therefore will feel a special connection to other mamas who feel the same way. It's human nature for us to bond with those who are 'like us' in some way, and to feel more likely to want to connect (or shop! :LOL) with those people. That's why I post on MDC and not BBC.


----------



## Jennisee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spatulagirl*
Ok, this thread wasn't intended to make people feel bad or for WAHMs to stop posting or for them to feel like drinking coke is bad and we won't buy from them because they don't drink all organic everything and no dairy. I just wanted to know if people who choose not to buy from certain companies because of XYZ reason apply the same reasoning behind diaper buying. That's it, that's all.

I do not believe we have the right to snoop around WAHMs private lives. But I do believe that we have a right to choose where our money goes. Some people don't care, others do. We all have that right to choose and that's wonderful.

I am pretty dang crunchy and I drink pop on occasion. I don't get what that has to do with anything here.

I think most people are saying everything pretty clear and in a nice fashion. It's a cool conversation to have and we are all doing it nicely. Yay for us!









I think most people understood what you meant. Honestly, I've enjoyed reading this thread. In my real life, I am surrounded by so much apathy and people not caring what their money supports that it's refreshing to see so many mamas here who care passionately about certain causes and who go the extra mile to put their money where their mouth is.








to everyone!


----------



## Kari_mom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amey*
I think it's been a difficult thread since alot of people have outlined why they won't buy from a WAHM. We haven't really heard reasons why people WILL support a WAHM in equal specifics

Good point. I do like to support a WAHM who shows integrity in her business practices and truly believes and uses the products she sells. I am becoming more interested in organics, so I do look for that.

Contrary to what someone reading this thread might think, the better I know a WAHM, the more likely I am to like her and to seek out her products. I have actually checked out a few websites I hadn't considered before based on statements some WAHMs made on this thread. I know that I can never really know a person, but even knowing how they represent themselves online gives me some data and I will make decisions with that information.


----------



## Lynski

I hesitate to even post this, after reading this thread. But I figure I've probably outed myself a dozen times over already on this board. :LOL I work outside the home. Yes, it's true! I wouldn't sew diapers if I didn't truly believe in that little glimmer of hope that I can grow my business and someday stay home with my son. Putting him in daycare was so sad for me and not a day goes by I don't wish I didn't have to! I treasure every second I have with him though and never sew while he's awake no matter how far behind I am. I used to keep somewhat quiet about working. I thought I was alone, but I've found a few other moms like me around. Quietly sewing all night long while their little ones and DHs sleep, and then yawning at their desk all day. But believe me, there isn't one of them who doesn't hope to be home someday, and that's the reason they push themselves so hard. My point is that you never really do know what is going on in our lives. I'm not saying it's _wrong_ that someone should choose not to buy from me over a "true" WAHM. Just that things may not be as simple as they seem. I, for one, will think twice how much I share in the future though.


----------



## thefeasetree

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Leilalu*
kind of a side note here....but how are "Christian" and "AP parenting" oxymorons? I am devout in my Christian beliefs and feel that AP is actually the way God designed things







I think maybe I don't understand you:LOL I to feel I am alone. I am one of the only women at church(BIG church) who wears a sling. And the women who started,just a few, did so because of me!We all hang out in the nursing moms room and have church/playgroup.lol


Hi, mama! I was being facetious! There were a couple of earlier posts that were riding on the edge of labelling all christians as scary extremists. So, I was bringing light to the matter with humor, I suppose--that you might actually be a christian and employ many of the good qualities that comes with natural parenting. You don't have to be atheist or agnostic or buddhist or pagan or what have you to be here at mothering.com!! Just kind of raising my hand and waving to say, "I'm here, I'm here, too! I just believe in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour! That's the difference! You can still be my friend!"

I never have been very funny!







My twin sister laughs at what I say, but she's about the only one.


----------



## 425lisamarie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thefeasetree*
Hi, mama! I was being facetious! There were a couple of earlier posts that were riding on the edge of labelling all christians as scary extremists. So, I was bringing light to the matter with humor, I suppose--that you might actually be a christian and employ many of the good qualities that comes with natural parenting. You don't have to be atheist (there really is no such thing) or agnostic (much more likely) or buddhist or pagan or what have you to be here at mothering.com!! Just kind of raising my hand and waving to say, "I'm here, I'm here, too! I just believe in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour! That's the difference! You can still be my friend!"

I never have been very funny!







My twin sister laughs at what I say, but she's about the only one.

What do you mean by there is no such thing as an Atheist??


----------



## Juliacat

Quote:


Originally Posted by **~*SewHappyNow*~**
the point is a little tolerence goes a long way. Isn't that what most of us want deep down is for others to tolerate our beliefs? Not everyone in this world has to be exactly like you or think exactly like you do.

I can tolerate people without buying products from them....

In answer to another PP, I like to buy from people who have been recommended to me by word of mouth, whose websites I like.


----------



## Sustainer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thefeasetree*
You don't have to be atheist (there really is no such thing)

Pardon?


----------



## 425lisamarie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sustainer*
Pardon?

I just asked the same thing, I would love to hear why??


----------



## ericswifey27

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Finnzoo*
I am sure this has been said. The only people I dont buy from are those with bad products, bad customer service, and if they rip people off, which would fall under unethical. I dont care about their political views or religion. Many people buy from wahms, even if it costs more, because they would rather support a mom/dad that is staying home with their kids. I live in the boonies. If I didnt have Walmart, I would have almost no place to shop. We shop out of town alot, but that is not always feasible. We try to support our local businesses, but most of the stores do not have the items we need or in our size, etc. Buying online is not always practical when you need wood, shower enclosure, roof, and the local businesses do not have it. Or if they do, it is so high, you could drive 2 hours and buy it and still be ahead. Sometimes you do what you can to support the smaller businesses but when there are monetary challenges, you have to do what you can to support your family. Family will always come first.

You speak truth


----------



## cielle

Quote:


Originally Posted by *425lisamarie*
I just asked the same thing, I would love to hear why??

Hopefully she'll enlighten us soon.


----------



## boingo82

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thefeasetree*
..You don't have to be atheist (there really is no such thing) or agnostic (much more likely) ..


I'm confused.. what do you mean, there's no such thing as atheist?


----------



## pilesoflaundry

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boingo82*
I'm confused.. what do you mean, there's no such thing as atheist?









I'm wondering the same thing. One of the coolest people I know IRL is an athiest I'm sure she would love to know she doesn't exist







.


----------



## thefeasetree

I think I'm understanding a little bit of what's being said here. I am thinking that some mamas are talking about avoiding companies that don't have their same belief systems bc they felt that by patronizing those businesses, it would, in effect, condone a certain idea, action, or lifestyle. So, whereas I (along with almost all of you, I would wager) think the Ezzos are dangerous, many of you have been bringing up other issues of equal import to you, but are confusing to me. So, when one of you says you try to avoid conservative businesses, it sounds hateful and ignorant (no, not stupid or dumb, just uninformed, which is what the word means) to me, but what you're really saying is that a conservative business might hold true to certain beliefs that you might find just as dangerous as Ezzo! Am I right? It's a difference in opinion! For example, a liberal might look at me as particularly dangerous bc I am against abortion (perhaps bc all the freaking extremists--who are NOT christian in any sense of the word--have taken to killing to stop the killing, which of course it doesn't. It only hurts the movement. It's as stupid--yes, stupid--as spanking your child for hitting his brother). But as a conservative, I view pro-choice as dangerous, too, for the SAME reasons! Both views have brought harm to innocent people--which is a SERIOUS problem. So, it would go against the very fabric of either of their beings to "support" a viewpoint that we so vehemently disagree with. This argument would hold true for any of the issues brought up here--biggering/smallering, conservative/liberal, sahm/wohm/wahm, environmentalist/humanist--did I miss any?

So, it comes down to this question instead, "Does patronizing a business lend support to their political, religious, or environmental, or whatever ideals?" Or "Can you actually buy a product from a business that doesn't directly/indirectly feed into an ideal to which you object?"

Well. . .these are my thoughts on the matter and why it's becoming more and more heated. These are serious issues!


----------



## navygirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lynski*
My point is that you never really do know what is going on in our lives. I'm not saying it's _wrong_ that someone should choose not to buy from me over a "true" WAHM. Just that things may not be as simple as they seem. I, for one, will think twice how much I share in the future though.


Very good points. I wish that you didn't feel that you had to watch what you posted and shared about yourself. I enjoy getting to know the Moms that I'm buying diapers and everything else from. I also don't mind the fact that some of you have to work outside the home, I have to. I wish that I could stay home with my kids but it's not to be. I can't even get out of the Navy until 2008 and then it's only another 4 years and I'm retired. So it's kind of pointless to get out at that point. The retirement check that I'll get will make it so I can stay home with my kids. I've already said it before, but the only thing that would make me not buy from a WAHM is if that mom was being unethical or lying (which kind of goes hand in hand).


----------



## 425lisamarie

I politely asked her to explain


----------



## thefeasetree

Sorry. . .opened another stinking can of worms, didn't I? Well, I will explain if you want me to on another forum. It's another thing you'll most likely disagree with. But I can go there if you want. I just have to figure out where that discussion is most appropriate. For our purposes here, I will edit it out! Deal?


----------



## boingo82

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thefeasetree*
Sorry. . .opened another stinking can of worms, didn't I? Well, I will explain if you want me to on another forum. It's another thing you'll most likely disagree with. But I can go there if you want. I just have to figure out where that discussion is most appropriate. For our purposes here, I will edit it out! Deal?









I would like an explanation. Here or elsewhere.


----------



## Sustainer

My main problem with the right-to-life movement is not that there are extremists who murder doctors, although I obviously do have a problem with that. My main problem is with the assertion that an embryo/fetus/whatever has a right to live inside my body without my consent and that I don't have a right to my own body or a right to control my own reproductive system.


----------



## thefeasetree

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pilesoflaundry*







I'm wondering the same thing. One of the coolest people I know IRL is an athiest I'm sure she would love to know she doesn't exist







.

:LOL This is GREAT! Thank you for your sense of humor. I think I can clarify here very quickly what I'm thinking, but let's debate it somewhere else. It was wrong for me to put that little snippet in there.

What I meant was that even if you don't believe in God, you probably worship (not in the traditional sense of the word) some other thing or idea or whatever. Even if you decided that there was no maker of your beautiful Mercedes Benz, you would still have to admit that you really adore that car! So, you might decide that nature or man or science is all that and throw your life into furthering those ideals. You don't believe in "God" but you make something else into a god.

The word atheist literally means without a god.

ok--i know you all were waiting. I had to be a mama for a moment. and I'm nak or I would put in a million smilies to try to fix what I said.


----------



## pilesoflaundry

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sustainer*
My main problem with the right-to-life movement is not that there are extremists who murder doctors, although I obviously do have a problem with that. My main problem is with the assertion that an embryo/fetus/whatever has a right to live inside my body without my consent and that I don't have a right to my own body or a right to control my own reproductive system.









:

thefeasetree, it sounds like it was more the way you phrased it than what you meant which was the problem. By your explaination it doesn't sound as bad as it did before, does that make sense? I think you are right though this isn't the place for a debate, in this one particular thread hashing it out somewhere else might not be a bad thing though! Thanks for appreciating my sense of humor, most people don't














.


----------



## ~*~MamaJava~*~

For everyone who is having difficulty with what I said...

I know this thread isn't about me, and it is certainly not specifically Christian-bashing. But I am allowed to be offended when people talk about the Bible, the pro life movement and that sort of thing in a rude or nasty way. Now you will say that I can't be offended by that sort of thing, it's not meant to hurt me specifically, etc etc, but if it were said about a religious or ethnic minority, people would be up in arms about it.

And cielle, about the "controversial poor lifestyle" comment, I was talking about the types of people that political conservatives or Christians are said to treat badly. I didn't say anything about controversial. Nor did I say we actually DO treat those people badly, but many people certainly think so.

Anyways, this thread is getting ridiculous.

Oh, btw, the reason (I think) she's saying atheists don't exist: You have to believe in something. You can be an atheistic humanist: no God, but believes in the essential goodness of humanity. But 'atheist' on its own isn't really possible.


----------



## ~*~MamaJava~*~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sustainer*
My main problem with the right-to-life movement is not that there are extremists who murder doctors, although I obviously do have a problem with that. My main problem is with the assertion that an embryo/fetus/whatever has a right to live inside my body without my consent and that I don't have a right to my own body or a right to control my own reproductive system.











Obviously people who murder abortion doctors are on the wrong track. To be cliche about it, two wrongs don't make a right. You certainly have a right to control your reproductive system, that I won't deny. Your body is yours to take care of. But that 'embryo/fetus/whatever', in the mind of a pro life person like myself, is a child, a person, created by God and with a purpose on this earth. In my eyes, abortion is murder.
Even if you don't believe in God or Jesus Christ (they certainly don't need you to







) I think you can see from being pregnant that it's a person living inside you, not a mass of tissue.
Even though it wasn't planned, it is a gift. Children are a blessing, I think we'd all agree.


----------



## Sustainer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thefeasetree*
What I meant was that even if you don't believe in God, you probably worship (not in the traditional sense of the word) some other thing or idea or whatever.

I don't worship anything, in any sense of the word.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thefeasetree*
Even if you decided that there was no maker of your beautiful Mercedes Benz

That is not a fair comparison. There can be no question as to whether or not a car was made. However, it is highly questionable as to whether or not the universe/world/people/whatever were "made."

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thefeasetree*
You don't believe in "God" but you make something else into a god.

I don't make anything into a god.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thefeasetree*
The word atheist literally means without a god.

Actually it means "without belief in god(s)," which describes me exactly. If "atheist" meant "without a god" then you, and everyone else, would be "atheists" too, in my opinion.


----------



## weetzie

Thank you, Alice. I don't worship anything, am not an athiestic humanist, or anything of the sort.


----------



## ~*~MamaJava~*~

You may think you don't worship anything, but take a moment and see whom you are living your life for. What is the purpose? Your own happiness? Your child's? Your partner's? A cause?

If there is no purpose to your life than







for you.


----------



## Sustainer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~*~MamaJava~*~*
You have to believe in something.

I don't believe anything in any way that even remotely resembles the way that theists "believe" in god(s).

There is nothing that I "substitute" for God. No substitution is necessary. I realize it's a concept that can be difficult for a believer to identify with. You think that I must need *something*.

Quote:

But 'atheist' on its own isn't really possible.
Atheist means "lack of belief in god(s)." I lack belief in god(s). Trust me, it's possible.


----------



## weetzie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~*~MamaJava~*~*
You may think you don't worship anything, but take a moment and see whom you are living your life for. What is the purpose? Your own happiness? Your child's? Your partner's? A cause?

If there is no purpose to your life than







for you.

Ok, I know everyone here will yell at me for this, but please don't talk to me that way. I do not appreciate your condescension. Please also assume that I am a capable adult, and I can determine the meaning of my life, without worshiping anything. Please have that trust in me, that I am an athiest, and do not need a religious person (or any person) to define my beliefs (or lack thereof). Thank you.


----------



## Juliacat

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~*~MamaJava~*~*
But I am allowed to be offended when people talk about the Bible, the pro life movement and that sort of thing in a rude or nasty way.

Yes. Yes, you are allowed to be offended by the things that offend you. Absolutely, 100%.

By the same token, I am allowed to be offended by certain things om WAHM web sites, and I am allowed to choose to buy from WAHMs whose web sites don't offend me.


----------



## ~*~MamaJava~*~

Reread my last post. You don't need to actively worship something to believe in it.


----------



## amey

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~*~MamaJava~*~*

If there is no purpose to your life than







for you.

Well now. i think this discussion on the ethics of diapering has taken a rather interesting turn. Perhaps this particular thread of it should be moved to a spirituality forum?

I don't think not believing in G-d = no purpose in life. I also don't equate worshipping a god to how I love and care for my children and family.

~amey


----------



## Sustainer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~*~MamaJava~*~*
I think you can see from being pregnant that it's a person living inside you, not a mass of tissue.
Even though it wasn't planned, it is a gift. Children are a blessing, I think we'd all agree.

In the beginning, it is a mass of tissue. Even if I were willing that to admit that at some point during the pregnancy it becomes a "person," it wouldn't matter. Even a person does not have the right to live inside another person.

Children are not a blessing if you are so unprepared physically or emotionally or financially at that point for a child that you prefer abortion.


----------



## ~*~MamaJava~*~

Juliacat, that's true. I agree. What I object to is the spitefulness on this thread and the open derision towards some people's beliefs. It isn't tolerated towards other groups and it shouldn't be tolerated towards Christians either.


----------



## Sustainer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~*~MamaJava~*~*
You may think you don't worship anything, but take a moment and see whom you are living your life for. What is the purpose? Your own happiness? Your child's? Your partner's? A cause?

If there is no purpose to your life than







for you.

My life is very fulfilling, but that doesn't mean that I worship something or that I live my life for a particular person or that my life has an intended or defined "purpose."


----------



## ShadowMom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~*~MamaJava~*~*
You may think you don't worship anything, but take a moment and see whom you are living your life for. What is the purpose? Your own happiness? Your child's? Your partner's? A cause?

If there is no purpose to your life than







for you.

Atheism, Christianity and religion in general do not address a belief in "something". They address a belief in a God. It is quite easy to lack belief in a God. Just imagine someone who feels the same way about all gods that you feel about all gods except yours.









I respect your right to your beliefs, but to try to argue that atheists are not atheists because have to "believe in something" is illogical and irrational.


----------



## Sustainer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~*~MamaJava~*~*
Reread my last post. You don't need to actively worship something to believe in it.

You also don't need to believe in anything in order to have a rewarding life.


----------



## Rising Sun

This thread has taken an interesting turn...

I do have some questions....

Are there actually people who would choose not to shop certain wahms if they are of a different religion than them? Or, choose to shop a certain wahm because they are the same religion as them?

Are people really concerned about a wahms race, religion, political views, sexual orientation, etc. Are there people who actually choose not to shop with certain wahms if they shop at walmart? Because they also have a job outside the home?

Do people really think that we make diapers just because it makes money? We could have taken on other jobs in our homes that make more money. Most of us make cloth diapers for money, because it is something that we so strongly believe in and it's a great creative outlet. We need the money... of course... but that's not why we chose cloth diapers.

You guys, I have friends of all sorts of religious beliefs. I have friends of different orientations, different backgrounds, and from different countries. They are all good people.

I have friends who parent differently than me. I have friends who think that positive parenting (PPD) is wacky and will turn out naughty children, that think that it's insane to co-sleep, can't understand why I would carry the baby around, and think that extended nursing is plain absurd. But, they are still my friends and I love them. We carry different beliefs and walk in different shoes.... and our paths have met.

Yes, we should choose where we shop. Yes, I would be turned off by extreme things like Ezzo books for sale, or links or quotes that were pro-ezzo. But, that is extreme and I have never seen that on a wahm site.

I guess that I am just surprised that there might actually be people who could turn away from a business based on their beliefs on religion, etc. Actually, I find that offensive. If you have a problem with my best friend because she is Pegan, I am offended. If you would boycott my friend because she is vegan, I am offended. If you would boycott my friend who is Christian, because she is Christian, I am offended.

Now, if you want to boycott somebody because they are abusive to their children, steal from their customers, lie about the content of their products, etc.. that is completely understandable and I stand right behind you.

But, when it gets into thos small things... like if I found out that somebody vaxed, and I am against vax - if they are republican and I am a liberal - if they are omnivore and I am a herbavore - if they are a differnt religion or have different views on religion.... that's really taking it too far.

You know, I know that we all think that we are right in our views, and we hold those views with great passion. I really respect that, but we don't need to think that everybody who doesn't hold those views are wrong. They are simply different... and different is fine.

And I'm sorry if I have terribly unpopular views, and everybody boycotts my store and I end up having to close up shop, but these are **my** feelings. I have many wahm friends now as well, and I love every one of them. They are all different than me, and I love them dearly.

nak - Teri


----------



## the_lissa

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~*~MamaJava~*~*









Obviously people who murder abortion doctors are on the wrong track. To be cliche about it, two wrongs don't make a right. You certainly have a right to control your reproductive system, that I won't deny. Your body is yours to take care of. But that 'embryo/fetus/whatever', in the mind of a pro life person like myself, is a child, a person, created by God and with a purpose on this earth. In my eyes, abortion is murder.
Even if you don't believe in God or Jesus Christ (they certainly don't need you to







) I think you can see from being pregnant that it's a person living inside you, not a mass of tissue.
Even though it wasn't planned, it is a gift. Children are a blessing, I think we'd all agree.

I certainly disagree.


----------



## ShadowMom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rising Sun*
Are there actually people who would choose not to shop certain wahms if they are of a different religion than them? Or, choose to shop a certain wahm because they are the same religion as them?

Well, I'm not one of them. If I were, I couldn't shop with ANYONE.


----------



## ~*~MamaJava~*~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sustainer*
You also don't need to believe in anything in order to have a rewarding life.

Okay







I guess I just don't understand because I've never lived it. But there's lots of things I don't understand :LOL No, seriously, now.


----------



## ~*~MamaJava~*~

Well, the lissa, my kids are a blessing to me







I'm sorry that yours aren't


----------



## cielle

blah.







:


----------



## Juliacat

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rising Sun*
Are there actually people who would choose not to shop certain wahms if they are of a different religion than them? Or, choose to shop a certain wahm because they are the same religion as them?

If she advertises her beliefs on her business web site, then she's telling me that I SHOULD take her religion into consideration, isn't she? I'm not talking about personal beliefs here, I'm talking about stuff that she is volunteering as part of her business.

I also don't see why choosing to shop at one place rather than another should be construed as being judgmental or not valuing diversity. _I have the right to decide where to spend my money._ It isn't a personal reflection on anyone.


----------



## the_lissa

My child is a blessing to me that I chose. My abortion was also a blessing.

I didn't say that children are never blessings, just that not every pregnancy is a blessing.


----------



## the_lissa

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Juliacat*
If she advertises her beliefs on her business web site, then she's telling me that I SHOULD take her religion into consideration, isn't she? I'm not talking about personal beliefs here, I'm talking about stuff that she is volunteering as part of her business.

I also don't see why choosing to shop at one place rather than another should be construed as being judgmental or not valuing diversity. _I have the right to decide where to spend my money._ It isn't a personal reflection on anyone.









:

I almost bought a cloth/bf advoacy shirt until I noticed she was selling anti choice shirts.


----------



## weetzie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rising Sun*
This thread has taken an interesting turn...

I do have some questions....

Are there actually people who would choose not to shop certain wahms if they are of a different religion than them? Or, choose to shop a certain wahm because they are the same religion as them?

In terms of religion, I would shop at a store regardless of the person's religion. However, I do avoid stores (both online and offline) that prostelytize. That is my personal choice, just as it is their personal choice to prostelytize. Honestly, I am not sure why that is an offensive decision. If a business has information that I am uncomfortable with, I may not shop there.

And as for WAHMs who have a list of customers that they will not allow to shop from them--that is their right and choice. But, IMO, it is bad business.


----------



## weetzie

Juliacat said it better than I did.


----------



## Juliacat

Quote:


Originally Posted by *weetzie*
Juliacat said it better than I did.

I think you said it pretty well too.


----------



## Louma

Quote:


Originally Posted by *weetzie*
Ok, I know everyone here will yell at me for this, but please don't talk to me that way. I do not appreciate your condescension. Please also assume that I am a capable adult, and I can determine the meaning of my life, without worshiping anything. Please have that trust in me, that I am an athiest, and do not need a religious person (or any person) to define my beliefs (or lack thereof). Thank you.









:


----------



## ShadowMom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *weetzie*
In terms of religion, I would shop at a store regardless of the person's religion. However, I do avoid stores (both online and offline) that prostelytize. That is my personal choice, just as it is their personal choice to prostelytize. Honestly, I am not sure why that is an offensive decision. If a business has information that I am uncomfortable with, I may not shop there.

And as for WAHMs who have a list of customers that they will not allow to shop from them--that is their right and choice. But, IMO, it is bad business.

You said what I was thinking a lot better than me.


----------



## boingo82

ITA with Juliacat, Weetzie, Sustainer, KristiMetz etc.

I do not need to believe in any deity at all to have a meaningful life. I especially don't appreciate patronizing "hugs".
Nobody would like it if I were going around saying "







to you poor Christians, it must be horrible to devote your life to an imaginary deity" (example, not that I necessarily feel that way) and I don't appreciate anyone telling ME that my life is without joy just because I don't have a deity, myself.

Like also has been said. I don't avoid religious people or their stores, but if they are proseletyzing, I will probably avoid being there.


----------



## Rising Sun

Quote:

In terms of religion, I would shop at a store regardless of the person's religion. However, I do avoid stores (both online and offline) that prostelytize.
Well, there is a fine line there.... if they are actually trying to convert you to their set of beliefs, they are in essence saying that your set of beliefs is wrong.

But, if they are just excited about their own set of beliefs and are pronouncing their excitement, I don't see any harm in this.

Now, this brings another subject up.... As a wahm, is it right/professional to put my religious beliefs all over my site? I mean, I know it's my right... freedom of speech and all... but is it a good idea?

I once thought of joining a list of wahms who belonged to a certain religion (that I believe in). Then, I thought about it... what is the intention? Is this so that others who belong to that religion know where to shop? That's not right... because then I am saying that they should descriminate against other wahms who don't share their beliefs. It's an interesting moral issue for me. I choose not to disclose my own beliefs because I don't wish for them to be a deciding factor in peoples purchases.... positive or negative. I wish for that to be kept seperate from my business.

Teri


----------



## girlndocs

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~*~MamaJava~*~*
You may think you don't worship anything, but take a moment and see whom you are living your life for. What is the purpose? Your own happiness? Your child's? Your partner's?

Wow! Me and my family are all gods? Cool.


----------



## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rising Sun*
Are there actually people who would choose not to shop certain wahms if they are of a different religion than them? Or, choose to shop a certain wahm because they are the same religion as them?

Are people really concerned about a wahms race, religion, political views, sexual orientation, etc. Are there people who actually choose not to shop with certain wahms if they shop at walmart? Because they also have a job outside the home?

If a company- any company, WAHM or not- is promoting their views on their site, they have made it my business. So, yes, I might exercise my power of choice as a consumer and not buy from them. IF they were making their views known on their website. Personally, I'm not concerned with any of those things, but if they make it my business, well, then it's now my business.

The walmart thing- I go out of my way NOT to shop at Walmart. Why, when my beliefs are so strong, would I pay someone else to buy fabric to make diapers there?

Quote:

Yes, we should choose where we shop. Yes, I would be turned off by extreme things like Ezzo books for sale, or links or quotes that were pro-ezzo. But, that is extreme and I have never seen that on a wahm site.
I guess this is where we accept that, as consumers, we all have to decide for ourselves where that line is drawn.

Quote:

I guess that I am just surprised that there might actually be people who could turn away from a business based on their beliefs on religion, etc. Actually, I find that offensive. If you have a problem with my best friend because she is Pegan, I am offended. If you would boycott my friend because she is vegan, I am offended. If you would boycott my friend who is Christian, because she is Christian, I am offended.
If someone used their website as a platform to share their beliefs, and I disagreed with those beliefs, I would not buy from them. I suppose no one has a right to go through life NOT being offended, but we do have the right to choose where we send our money.

Quote:

You know, I know that we all think that we are right in our views, and we hold those views with great passion. I really respect that, but we don't need to think that everybody who doesn't hold those views are wrong. They are simply different... and different is fine.
But aren't you basically saying that it offends you if someone holds to their own personal views?


----------



## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *girlndocs*
Wow! Me and my family are all gods? Cool.









I've always thought that you had certain goddess-like qualities.


----------



## User101

Oh, and I am picturing a really funny idea for a bumper stickers- a round face with its eyes scrunched shut and hands over his eyes and the words "I don't believe in athiests."


----------



## ShadowMom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rising Sun*
Now, this brings another subject up.... As a wahm, is it right/professional to put my religious beliefs all over my site? I mean, I know it's my right... freedom of speech and all... but is it a good idea?

In my opinion, it's a bad idea because anytime you put something non-business related on your site, you are going to alienate some people.

Now, if you don't care about that, for instance if you're an evangelical Christian and it doesn't bother you if someone who's not a Christian buys their dipes elsewhere because of the messages on the site, then that's fine.

But, you have to be aware that it will happen.

But it's the same with having AP stuff on your site. If you put enough personal stuff regarding any topic on your site, you'll end up alienating someone.

I'm pretty AP, but if I had a WAHM site I wouldn't put anything about that on there (other than linking to info my customers might find interesting, for instance people who cloth diaper are more likely to be into NFL maybe).


----------



## weetzie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rising Sun*
Well, there is a fine line there.... if they are actually trying to convert you to their set of beliefs, they are in essence saying that your set of beliefs is wrong.

But, if they are just excited about their own set of beliefs and are pronouncing their excitement, I don't see any harm in this.

But why would a diaper company need to tell me about their beliefs if they are not in some way hoping that I will use the information to change my own belief system (or lack thereof)? Are they trying to target a certain market? If so, I am certainly not that market, and therefore will not be inclined to purchase from them.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rising Sun*
Now, this brings another subject up.... As a wahm, is it right/professional to put my religious beliefs all over my site? I mean, I know it's my right... freedom of speech and all... but is it a good idea?

Well, yes and no. It depends on the religion, in a strictly business sense. The vast majority of people in this country are Christian. You are likely to lose fewer customers based on your religion if you are Christian (percentage wise) than a less commonly practiced religion. Of course, in the AP diapering community, maybe the percentages break down differently.

If I were to open a store, I wouldn't mention my beliefs. If its not relevant to the product, its not relevant.


----------



## thefeasetree

nak

i am sad to see some of this thread turning ugly. please be careful about what you say regarding another's post. it's like one big bad game of telephone: person one says A, person 2 comments and extrapolates A into Aa. Then, person 3 turns Aa into B! And B is not what person 1 said, AT ALL!! And then Person 1 tries to clarify A, but Person 3 has already attributed B to Person 1 and communication breaks down.

I see this over and over and over on the forums. Please, let's not get catty.

I think we can discuss important issues with humor and good will, without getting catty, ugly, and downright mean.

Now, anyone want a cup of tea? Coffee, maybe? I'm partial to lemonade myself, but I'm plumb out! Who's gonna bake the cookies?


----------



## thefeasetree

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
Oh, and I am picturing a really funny idea for a bumper stickers- a round face with its eyes scrunched shut and hands over his eyes and the words "I don't believe in athiests."


See, now THIS is funny!







She is saying that she thinks we're a bunch o' blind, imaginative children in denial, but she said it with such flair!!! :LOL

Ah, well--I, for one, am glad we aren't all alike. How dull it would get here.


----------



## eden/averymum

I started reading this thread but it is everywhere.

I give up.

I thought MDC had rules about OT! LOL! I guess if you mention *diapers* it is OK.

I think every mamma should cut another mamma a little slack. We all love our children and that is what we should commune about it. Mothering is a sisterhood not a competition.


----------



## cielle

Actually, AM is just blessed with the ability to have her own faith and still respect the ideas of others.

(And she is funny, too)


----------



## nohomama

All I can say right now is, "Holy crap!" My eyes are going crossed trying to wade through the pages and pages of posts.

Certainly my beliefs play into how I spend my money. If a WAHM posts information regarding her beliefs on her site (whether it be religious, political, or whatever in nature) and I disagree, I'm going to think before I buy and I may go elsewhere. But I'm not gonna go out and Google a WAHM to find out what the hell kinda toothpaste she uses and I'm not going to give her the third degree to find out where she bought her last spool of thread. That's ridiculous.


----------



## 425lisamarie

I am just so baffled that so many find it absolutely impossible to believe that I MUST believe in/worship SOMETHING! My grandmother actually believes that atheists are devil worshipers







.

I can guarantee that my life has meaning. My son is my absolute first concern and everything and anything I do is in his best interest. I just choose to spend my life living for every moment NOW, and not for wherever I may go after. Just as adiment as you are about believing in your god, I am that adiment about NOT believing. I do not worship anything in any sense of the word but I respect all others who do.

I just find it weird that so many people think if you do not believe in or worship some god that you somehow don't have any values or any reason to live







.

My inlaws are from Europe and are Catholic, so I know all about respecting others religous beliefs. I also demand others to respect my lack of.


----------



## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thefeasetree*
See, now THIS is funny!







She is saying that she thinks we're a bunch o' blind, imaginative children in denial, but she said it with such flair!!! :LOL

Ah, well--I, for one, am glad we aren't all alike. How dull it would get here.

I thought we weren't getting catty?

I'm actually a fairly conservative pro-life Christian, and a pastor's wife to boot, although you won't find it on my web site. I just found the idea of denying the existance of people who deny the existance of God to be ironic.

Really, dear, you know what they say about ASSumptions.


----------



## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nohomama*
All I can say right now is, "Holy crap!" My eyes are going crossed trying to wade through the pages and pages of posts.

Certainly my beliefs play into how I spend my money. If a WAHM posts information regarding her beliefs on her site (whether it be religious, political, or whatever in nature) and I disagree, I'm going to think before I buy and I may go elsewhere. But I'm not gonna go out and Google a WAHM to find out what the hell kinda toothpaste she uses and I'm not going to give her the third degree to find out where she bought her last spool of thread. That's ridiculous.

It almost took me as long to read this thread as it did to read the last Harry Potter book! :LOL

And I agree with everything you said!


----------



## AntoninBeGonin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
Oh, and I am picturing a really funny idea for a bumper stickers- a round face with its eyes scrunched shut and hands over his eyes and the words "I don't believe in athiests."

Ha ha ha ha ha! :LOL

~Nay


----------



## ilikethedesert

Just jumping in here. I didn't read the whole thread, but liked the original question. I love to support WHAMs, too and am one myself. (PM me if you want to see what I do! ) I love wool, but am 99% vegan so I only will buy it if I know its humane and the sheep aren't eaten or bred or if its recycled- as in sweater longies. Leaves my conscience clear and I still get to use this wonderful natural fiber.
That's it. Short and sweet. I find that when buying vegan WAHM stuff, the other things usually fall into place.


----------



## maxwill129

Do people really not buy things like diapers because the WAHM has a religious view they don't believe in?! Wow. I'm a Christian, but if I could support a WAHM of any religion I would do it over buying from a company.

annettemarie, your bumper sticker idea is funny (and so are your posts...you're pretty sassy!







).


----------



## KoalaMama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maxwill129*
Do people really not buy things like diapers because the WAHM has a religious view they don't believe in?! Wow. I'm a Christian, but if I could support a WAHM of any religion I would do it over buying from a company.

I would not refrain from buying a product because of the religion of the manufacturer/business owner. (And I don't think that's what anyone else was saying, either.) However, as a non-Christian, if I went to a site that was heavily religious based I might keep on surfing rather than stay to purchase. Not because I have a problem with the religion, but for the same reasons I might skip a site that had a poor navigation system - it just wouldn't draw me in. By the same token, I might be more likely to shop at a site that had links to information/causes of things that are important to me because it would feel like that person *was* speaking to me. This is a simple issue of marketing - everything you put on your business site is saying something about your business, and therefore targeting a certain customer profile. Businesses need to consider this when they decide what they want to say to the public about their operation. (As a previous poster said - a person is a person and a business is a business.)

As to the question in the OP... Yes, I would avoid spending money with a WAHM that had business practices I disagreed with in the same way I would stay away from a big corp. So, if a WAHM is saying she gives X% of her proceeds to some cause that I don't support, I'll stay away. It's not personal... it's a matter of putting my money where my mouth is.


----------

