# Vitamin C, Infectious Diseases, and Toxins: Curing the Incurable



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

This book is an absolute revelation to me. A must for the non vaxer or anyone who is considering not vaxing. (Thank you MT for suggesting it!







)

It talks about the HUGE amount of research that support using vit. C megadoses, especially via IV or intramuscular injections for knocking out viruses and neutralizing toxins. He gives much regard to Frederick Klenner for his pioneering research and practical application.

The main problem according to Levy, and the way C is regarded by most clinicians today, is that not enough C is assimilated by the body to show any effect. IV and injection, along with oral supplementation as well, is a much better route if facing a serious crisis. (See below). One example in his book is Klenner's own daughter facing chicken pox (I think). She was taking 24 grams a day. Not enough. Just a gram or two by IV and she improved dramatically. So basically if you see no result, you just need more.

Also everyday vit. C dosage to *your personal optidose* is crucial for the prevention of countless diseases and building the support structure for your immune system to deal with the many environmental toxins we face in the modern world. Vitamin C is rapidly depleted in the body's tissues by any virus and toxic assault on the body. And it's often the clinical appearance of scurvy that clearly shows this.

The fact that many animals synthesize their own vitamin C, increasing it in times of illness or toxic stress, is one of the main reasons that they are not susceptible to degenerative disease as we humans are. Levy hypothesizes that some humans could possibly do this now, or at some point ... as the genome exists in our DNA to produce the specific liver enzyme but seems to remain "untranslated".

The following viral diseases are CURABLE and PREVENTABLE with vitamin C IV and megadosing:

Hepatitis
Measles
Mumps
Viral Encephalitis
Chickenpox
Herpes
Pneumonia
Influenza
Rabies (preventable has been proven only)
AIDS and The Common Cold (preventable and reversible has been proven only)

The following infectious diseases are CURABLE and PREVENTABLE with vitamin C IV and megadosing:

Diptheria
Pertussis (reversible and preventable has been proven only)
Tetanus
Streptoccal and Staphylococcal Infections
Bacillary Dysentary
Pseudomonas Infections
Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever
Leprosy, Tuberculosis, Typhoid Fever, Malaria, Amebic Dysentary (reversible and preventable has been proven only, curable is hypothesized with right doses)

The following toxins can be neutralized:

Alcohol,
Barbituates
Carbon Monoxide
Endotoxin (ie. die off from yeast infections or the Herxheimer reaction)
Exotoxins (ie. metabolites from yeast/bad bacteria intestinal flora imbalance)
Pesticides
Herbicides
PCBs
Radiation
Tetanus toxin
Mercury
Lead
Arsenic
Aluminum
Fluoride, etc.








: Quite an amazing list, huh? Like I said, he has extensive research in this book and clearly states the studies that were constructed to debunk vit. C use pathetically small doses, not "Klenner sized" ones and not via IV or injection.

*How to Determine Your Personal Optidose:*

Take every hour or every two hours until bowel tolerance is reached. Normally around 6 - 12 grams/day for a healthy adult. When you get watery diarrhea, this means that the body has absorbed all it can. So take just under that amount every single day, in divided doses 3-4x day. If you miss it, you will not be giving your body the dosage it needs to stay healthy and leave your immune system vulnerable. Increase in times of stress or illness. If facing any of the challenges listed above, consider IVs.

_*
Vitamin C, Infectious Diseases, and Toxins: Curing the Incurable*_
by Tom Levy MD
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...662096-9754430

You can read the Intro and some excerpts at his website. Click on books and then find the Vit. C book and links at bottom of that page: www.tomlevymd.com


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Wow Jane! Thanks for the info. I have known that dd does much better at night when she gets enough vit c throughout the day. (Sodium ascorbate.)

I am going to try this every hour to see what my dosage level is.

Do they say sodium ascorbate is best?


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## WendyC (Jun 16, 2005)

Wow that is fantastic! Thank you!

Can you find many practictioners who would do a Vit. C. IV?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Do they say sodium ascorbate is best?

Yes as it is buffered, the body absorbs more. However you still need bioflavonoids, at 20% of that dosage (book doesn't go into this).

I'm also going to test my optidose both with SA and with natural vitamin C, I use acerola and amla powder for everyday supplementation b/c it already has biofl.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WendyC*
Can you find many practictioners who would do a Vit. C. IV?

Good question, DS's new dr. does and he is a fellow of Amer Academy of Environmental Medicine:
http://www.aaem.com/


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## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

Ok, so I remember reading somewhere around here that if vit C makes you tired or get sick (which it seems to so to me everytime I happen to get a bunch of it), then something else is wrong or you're missing another nutrient or something? Anyone know what I'm talking about?

Also, they are looking at the possibility that I might have lymphoma and I seem to remember someone saying that vit C makes cancer cells _increase_. Do I have that wrong? Is vit C with cancer ok?

And if so, I'm having a little trouble with all the stuff surrounding the vit C. I think that the fact that I want sodium ascorbate has stuck finally







. But bioflavaniods??

JaneS, is there any way you could just tell me exactly what to go to the store and buy, brand names and everything?







:
Puh-leeeze?







:


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## Goddess3_2005 (Oct 20, 2004)

Well I'm not Jane. I know my father uses vitamin C for his cancer patients so I don't think that it causes problems. A brand of Vitamin C I like it by Natural Factors, Its and Abscorbate and Ascorbic mix, but its 100% organic and its in a nice flaored chewable.


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## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

Does that cover the bioflaviniods too? Or do you do those?

I'm glad to hear about the cancer thing, I just wouldn't want to risk it if it has some odd growing effect on cancer. Maybe I'll see about the injections from my doc. Then again, I probably need to see about a new doc anyways.









I could have sworn I read something in one of these _many_ threads around here about C making certain people sick and tired. *sigh* I wish the search feature was better.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I would also like to know a good brand of *powdered* bioflavanoids that I can mix in w/dds' drinks.







:


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Treereach,

Interesting you should ask that as my mom has a form of lymphoma and I've been starting to compile info to convince her.

Check into Linus Pauling's studies with cancer patients and IVA (IV Sodium Ascorbate).

There has been some recent study as well:
*Orthomolecular oncology review: ascorbic acid and cancer 25 years later.*
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum (see link for full text and other related research)

Quote:

*Conclusion*
There are a wide variety of mechanisms by which
ascorbate prevents and inhibits malignant growth.We
have described the ones we believe are most important,
most scientifically logical, and for which there is
the most evidence. It is very likely that many of these
mechanisms interplay in ascorbate's anticancer action.
The collective evidence supports the notion of
increasing ascorbate intake in patients suffering malignancies,
especially provided by intravenous route.
Ascorbate may produce benefits in both prevention
and treatment of cancer, by inhibiting malignant cell
proliferation, and inducing differentiation113 and
redifferentiation.114 In addition, ascorbate has been of
value in the palliation of pain170,171 and as an ergogenic
agent,8,172 which has substantially improved the quality
of life of terminal cancer patients.
The ideal anticancer agent is obviously one that
specifically interferes with tumor growth, prolongs
survival time, and improves quality of life. There is evidence
that ascorbate might fit this description. A protocol
for the proper administration of intravenous AA
has been published recently.173 Based on the evidence
reviewed herein, we suggest the use of intravenous AA
as adjuvant therapy in cancer treatment and the exploration
of new cancer therapies based on modulation
of the cellular redox state.
Sodium ascorbate is not in stores...have to order online. I get from Iherb
http://www.iherb.com/store/ProductDe...&pid=NOW-00762

I'm not a good person to ask re: mixed bioflavonoids right now. DS gets Amla, a natural whole foods vit. C and quercitin and I take either Amla or Acerola right now. That may change depending on what our optidoses are coming in at.

Chewable vitamin C that contains ascorbic acid is absolutely murder on your tooth enamel, not a good idea!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Goddess3_2005*
Vaccination is NOT natural!!!











This thought just crystallized in me while reading this book: I'm now utterly comfortable with not vaxing.

I mean, I know soooo much thanks to the amazing mamas here that I would never *ever* vax DS. But there was still a tiny bit of fear, ykwim? That's totally gone.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

I am able to buy sodium ascorbate from my health food store, PCC Natural in the Seattle area. They used to require you to special order it, but now it's on the shelf.
When you reach bowel tolerance, is that in a 24 hour period or shorter? Like, if I took 2 grams every hour, and it took two days to get to bowel tolerance, would I then take double the amount that I took in a 24 hour period? Or if you don't reach bowel tolerance by bedtime, do you start over in the morning?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Yes, it is in a 24 hr period. But did you take more the second day or same amount?


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## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

Cool beans. Thanks so much for that info, it definitely relieves my concerns about taking it.


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
I am able to buy sodium ascorbate from my health food store, PCC Natural in the Seattle area. They used to require you to special order it, but now it's on the shelf.
When you reach bowel tolerance, is that in a 24 hour period or shorter? Like, if I took 2 grams every hour, and it took two days to get to bowel tolerance, would I then take double the amount that I took in a 24 hour period? Or if you don't reach bowel tolerance by bedtime, do you start over in the morning?

I tried to reach my optidose yesterday by taking two AMLA (paradise) caps per hour. I had stomach rumblings when I went to bed at 30 capsules, but never any results. This morning I started again (as I didn't want to wake every hour through the night to take the capsules) with SA. I'm currently at 21 grams with significant rumblings. Hoping to get there soon







. I have been chelating and mobilizing mercury for 6 months and am hopefully half way through the course. I believe this explains my very increased optidose since I don't have any other disease process that I know of.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moneca*
I tried to reach my optidose yesterday by taking two AMLA (paradise) caps per hour. I had stomach rumblings when I went to bed at 30 capsules, but never any results. This morning I started again (as I didn't want to wake every hour through the night to take the capsules) with SA. I'm currently at 21 grams with significant rumblings. Hoping to get there soon







. I have been chelating and mobilizing mercury for 6 months and am hopefully half way through the course. I believe this explains my very increased optidose since I don't have any other disease process that I know of.

Do you mean that you think because you're chelating, you're needing more than you normally would? I know dd can handle 5+ grams w/no bowel movements but I've been slowly working up with her. She's chelating so I guess that would make sense huh?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Brands of sodium ascorbate: NOW brand, or Source Naturals. Usually you have to get it online as I've only found them in a very few HFS's.

Bioflavonoids--I bought NOW brand ones. They come in capsules...I suppose you could try opening them and mixing them with water


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

:


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Do you mean that you think because you're chelating, you're needing more than you normally would? I know dd can handle 5+ grams w/no bowel movements but I've been slowly working up with her. She's chelating so I guess that would make sense huh?

Chelating causes redistribution of mercury (and lead in my case). If you're doing the Cutler protocol then you're pulling mercury out of your organs and reintroducing it to your system as it exits your body. In a way you are repoisoning yourself during this process and that is why you get so many "symptoms" as your extracellular mercury levels go back up. Naturally this causes a lot of oxidative damage and stress on the system since mercury enters every cell. Thus the need for major repair.

Oh, it's 9pm and I'm getting ready to take another dose to put me up to 60 grams







: and only wicked gas and rumblings thus far.


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## Momtezuma Tuatara (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
I am able to buy sodium ascorbate from my health food store, PCC Natural in the Seattle area. They used to require you to special order it, but now it's on the shelf.
When you reach bowel tolerance, is that in a 24 hour period or shorter? Like, if I took 2 grams every hour, and it took two days to get to bowel tolerance, would I then take double the amount that I took in a 24 hour period? Or if you don't reach bowel tolerance by bedtime, do you start over in the morning?

To reach bowel tolerance is very simple. As Jane said in the OP

Quote:

Take every hour or every two hours until bowel tolerance is reached. Normally around 6 - 12 grams/day for a healthy adult. When you get watery diarrhea, this means that the body has absorbed all it can. So take just under that amount every single day, in divided doses 3-4x day. If you miss it, you will not be giving your body the dosage it needs to stay healthy and leave your immune system vulnerable. Increase in times of stress or illness. If facing any of the challenges listed above, consider IVs.
I do a loading bolus dose of five grams, and then 2.5 grams every couple of hours.

When I get to bowel tolerance depends on what sort of day its been. If I've been to a big city with lots of pollution, I won't get to bowel tolerance until i've had 40 grams, but if its a good day at home but with heaps of hard physical work, bowel tolerance might be 8 grams. A sedentary day, bowel tolerance might be as little as 5 grams.

You write down how much you take and how long it takes to get to bowel tolerance.

So if it only takes 10 hours to get to bowel tolerance, and you used a total of 10 grams to do that, then take that amount the next day in smaller doses over the waking period of that day, and see if you remain at bowel tolerance. If you don't, then up it a bit the next day.

Also, we are all different, and how fast you get there depends on the individual. It is error and trial, and that's how you will learn.

No-one can tell you how, or when it will be achieved. Just take comprehensive accurat notes, analyse it, and learn what your body requires.

Jane, Dr Levy is now very much into liposomal vitamin C, which he maintains is almost as effective as IV in emergency situation.

http://livonlabs.com/


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## Momtezuma Tuatara (Mar 3, 2004)

As time goes on, you will learn what your body needs under different circumstances, and will have a pretty good idea of how much to take, so getting to bowel tolerance will become more hit than miss.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momtezuma Tuatara*
Jane, Dr Levy is now very much into liposomal vitamin C, which he maintains is almost as effective as IV in emergency situation.

http://livonlabs.com/

Oooooo, thank you!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momtezuma Tuatara*
As time goes on, you will learn what your body needs under different circumstances, and will have a pretty good idea of how much to take, so getting to bowel tolerance will become more hit than miss.

If you experience *any* intestinal symptoms at all is that considered bowel tolerance? ie. gas, rumbling ... or do you have to go to full on diarrhea?


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## momto l&a (Jul 31, 2002)

I love Levy's book. Have had it for 2+ years and refer to it often.


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Well, Id like to try to get to bowel tolerance but:

Yesterday I was out and about so much I missed many doses. Ended up doing 5g in 1g doses over the day and never rumbled.

Today I got to 3g by 10:30am and now have the most AWFUL stomach ache, I can barely move around, which is a must for taking care of the kids. They want lunch, they want to wrestle - UGH, ouch

So, todays results make me fearful of attemting bowel tolerance in the future. Im inclined to stick with my 4g over the day. The last time something like this happened was the first day I took 4g. As per my tolerance, I am pretty active most days - today I walked and went for a bike ride, and then got the stomache ache.

Your thoughts/suggestions?


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## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

EEE, saskiasmom. That makes me nervous to try it.

So, would this be the thing to do for an infant that just got the usual round of 4 mo shots? I posted here near when this thread was started about my nephew and how the mom was trying to get with the no-vax thing. Well, she didn't make it. The doc ran all over her, saying there was no thimerosol in them anymore and all that crud.

So, last night, after they got home from the appt, he wouldn't even wake up (during typically awake hours- 4-9) and the couple minutes he did, he just screamed.

Should we try some C? I'm sure she would be nervous to do that unless we knew exactly what to get. But have you guys done that with someone as little as 4 mos and it was ok? Would it help the situation?


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## mimim (Nov 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*

*How to Determine Your Personal Optidose:*

Take every hour or every two hours until bowel tolerance is reached. Normally around 6 - 12 grams/day for a healthy adult. When you get watery diarrhea, this means that the body has absorbed all it can. So take just under that amount every single day, in divided doses 3-4x day. If you miss it, you will not be giving your body the dosage it needs to stay healthy and leave your immune system vulnerable. Increase in times of stress or illness.

I tried this a couple of months ago and it left me VERY uncomfortable, with repeat episodes of crampy diarrhea and gas for hours. I took about 1 gram per hour and when I reached 6g, I spent almost all of my time in the bathroom for the next 4 or 5 hours. Not the best way to occupy
your time if you are alone with a 4 yo and a 1 yo.







:

I will NOT be trying this with my kids, nor will I ever "test my tolerance" again.


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Well, I found my bowel tolerance dose last night. It came on 5 minutes after I took an extra 5 grams to get me to 65 so I'm thinking that 60 is the magic number. Today I reached bowel tolerance a couple hours after taking 28gms. I don't know how much this was affected by the fact I took my last dose of SA last night at 10 pm. I'll start all over again tomorrow morning.
Here is a strange thing that happened on both days of high C ( when taking AMLA and SA). After about 10 grams on each day I started to have all the symptoms of hayfever. The higher the doses got the worse the symptoms. They would also be worst from about 10 minutes after I took each dose until 45 minutes had passed and then they would decrease until the next dose. I was sneezing so much last night after reaching 40 grams that I had a hard time catching my breath since it was just sneeze, sneeze, sneeze







: . This morning I only had a mild sniffle upon waking that got a little bit worse and totally vanished not to return as soon as I took my first dose of SA. Bizarre! I don't think it was an allergy, but a detox reaction. MT any thoughts?
Don't know if anyone else has found this to be true, but when I am really detoxing my pits get really stinky. Tea tree essential oil alone was a great deoderant (actually killing the bacteria) until I started selenium (which is part of the glut. pathway) 200 mg each day. I started to have odor for a month and then went back to being without odor until starting the ALA (again part of the glut. pathway) portion of my chelation and got stinky again that would decrease until I upped the ALA dose. I had major odor yesterday while trying to get to the optidose. DH never has body odor issues to the point that he only wears deoderant if playing soccer. When he started on selenium he only stunk for 2-3 days and was odor free again. He did stink again yesterday a few hours after taking 5 gms of SA. That is all he took yesterday and today he reached optidose after only 12 grams of SA although he is almost double my weight and eats his share of junk (though much less than he used to). I think he has a much more effective detox pathway than I do.


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mimim*
I tried this a couple of months ago and it left me VERY uncomfortable, with repeat episodes of crampy diarrhea and gas for hours. I took about 1 gram per hour and when I reached 6g, I spent almost all of my time in the bathroom for the next 4 or 5 hours. Not the best way to occupy
your time if you are alone with a 4 yo and a 1 yo.







:

I will NOT be trying this with my kids, nor will I ever "test my tolerance" again.

I had a bit of cramping, but not bad and the diarrhea only kept me in the bathroom for ten minutes. DH had no cramping and I think was in the bathroom four times for just a few minutes after reaching optidose. I guess it is different for everyone. I'm sorry you had such a rough time. That would make me want to avoid it too.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mimim*
I tried this a couple of months ago and it left me VERY uncomfortable, with repeat episodes of crampy diarrhea and gas for hours. I took about 1 gram per hour and when I reached 6g, I spent almost all of my time in the bathroom for the next 4 or 5 hours. Not the best way to occupy
your time if you are alone with a 4 yo and a 1 yo.







:

I will NOT be trying this with my kids, nor will I ever "test my tolerance" again.

Did you use sodium ascorbate or ascorbic acid? AA has the acidic ph that is very hard on the system. I also did a bowel flush last year with AA and while not as difficult as yours, was not something I'd wanna repeat! I've done very large amounts of SA with no trouble... the neutral ph makes it easier for the body to assimilate.


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## mimim (Nov 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Did you use sodium ascorbate or ascorbic acid? AA has the acidic ph that is very hard on the system. I also did a bowel flush last year with AA and while not as difficult as yours, was not something I'd wanna repeat! I've done very large amounts of SA with no trouble... the neutral ph makes it easier for the body to assimilate.

It was sodium ascorbate.

I'm sure this process is really helpful for some people, but I wanted to remind everyone that diarrhea is not fun.







:


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

Hey is this ok for pregnant moms? I am assuming yes. Ds and I have caught a cold, so I wanted to up our dosage. I have been taking 1 tsp, yesterday I took 1.5 tsp and 2 tsp today.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momtezuma Tuatara*
Jane, Dr Levy is now very much into liposomal vitamin C, which he maintains is almost as effective as IV in emergency situation.

http://livonlabs.com/

2 questions. How long does this vit C stay in the body. Would you still need to be taking it through the day every hr? And can anyone find out the ingredients in this? Sugar, colors anything?

Thanks
Amy


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## MyLittleWonders (Feb 16, 2004)

Does anyone know the "conversion" rates for SA to acerola powder? I can typically take 6 grams a day of SA without any side-affects and was wondering how much acerola that would be (I thought it was something like 10:1 because of the potency of the acerola but can't remember)?

Also, like crunchy mama's question, is this okay (bowel tolerance/optimal dosage) while nursing? Like I said above, 6 grams SA is good for me without even getting to bowel tolerance, but if I wanted to test my optimal level, would ds#3 react much?


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama*
Hey is this ok for pregnant moms? I am assuming yes. Ds and I have caught a cold, so I wanted to up our dosage. I have been taking 1 tsp, yesterday I took 1.5 tsp and 2 tsp today.

I'm hoping MT will respond to this. The only thing I can remember regarding Vit C and pregnancy is from Susan Weed's book Wise Woman's Child Bearing Year. She suggests using Vit C in the amount of 5000 - 6000 mg to induce spontaneous abortion. I read this three years ago and no longer have the book so please check this out.


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

thank you moneca, for this incredibly crappy news. I am hoping that anyone else has info. I think I have strep throat and am feeling completely and totally horrible.


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## ramlita (Mar 26, 2002)

In A Woman's Book of Choices: Abortion, Menstrual Extraction, RU-486
by Rebecca Chalker and Carol Downer,
vitamin C is described as working best as an abortifacient when taken right at the time that very first missed period is due. There was a study in the seventies in Russia in which 20 pregnant women took about six grams of ascorbic acid for three days, and all but four had started to menstruate by the end of the three days.
The study has not been duplicated since (to these authors' knowledge, or mine) but if it works, the earlier on, the more effective. Even a few days after that missed period can make the difference.

In Susun Weed's Herbal for the Childbearing Year, she writes:
"Ascorbic acid is the safest and reportedly most effective emmenagogue that can be used after the menstrual flow has failed to appear. Women report success even when three weeks 'late.' Six grams of vitamin C is the daily dosage needed to abort. Take 500 mg ever hour for 12 hours a day for up to six days."

I'll leave it to an expert to really answer the question, but that's what I've got.


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

wow, that makes me very, very ill. I feel like an idiot now, how would I explain this to dh if something happened. yesterday I took about 8 g before I read this and 6 the day before and 4 the day before that. I am only a couple of weeks along.


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## sunshinestarr (Jan 5, 2006)

crunchy mama - I'm so glad you read this!!


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## momto l&a (Jul 31, 2002)

Dr Klinner had all of his preggo patients vitamin C and there where no mc's.

He had a lot more patients than that where in that Russian "study."


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

to you crunchy mama

I also wanted to post something. I'm going to be starting IV Vit C for my cancer in a couple of weeks and in my research, I've decided to take this product to help. I'm sure it would help non IV Vit C people as well.


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama*
thank you moneca, for this incredibly crappy news. I am hoping that anyone else has info. I think I have strep throat and am feeling completely and totally horrible.

Crunchy mama - Sorry to deliver such a warning that I could not quote from the original source.







to you.


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## moneca (Sep 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ramlita*
In A Woman's Book of Choices: Abortion, Menstrual Extraction, RU-486
by Rebecca Chalker and Carol Downer,
vitamin C is described as working best as an abortifacient when taken right at the time that very first missed period is due. There was a study in the seventies in Russia in which 20 pregnant women took about six grams of ascorbic acid for three days, and all but four had started to menstruate by the end of the three days.
The study has not been duplicated since (to these authors' knowledge, or mine) but if it works, the earlier on, the more effective. Even a few days after that missed period can make the difference.

In Susun Weed's Herbal for the Childbearing Year, she writes:
"Ascorbic acid is the safest and reportedly most effective emmenagogue that can be used after the menstrual flow has failed to appear. Women report success even when three weeks 'late.' Six grams of vitamin C is the daily dosage needed to abort. Take 500 mg ever hour for 12 hours a day for up to six days."

I'll leave it to an expert to really answer the question, but that's what I've got.









Ramlita - Thanks for providing more info. I wish I would have kept Susan Weed's book.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*







to you crunchy mama

I also wanted to post something. I'm going to be starting IV Vit C for my cancer in a couple of weeks and in my research, I've decided to take this product to help. I'm sure it would help non IV Vit C people as well.

You don't have any amalgam fillings do you? Or did at one point?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders*
Does anyone know the "conversion" rates for SA to acerola powder? I can typically take 6 grams a day of SA without any side-affects and was wondering how much acerola that would be (I thought it was something like 10:1 because of the potency of the acerola but can't remember)?

As I think most everything else WAPF suggests is spot on... I would rather take acerola or amla powder daily as well and rely on sodium ascorbate for health crises. This is my next project to research more in depth. There is not much on their site.

Quote:

Acerola Tablets: A berry rich in ascorbic acid, acerola provides vitamin C with numerous cofactors, including bioflavonoids and rutin, to optimize the body's uptake and use of ascorbic acid. Vitamin C, the most important dietary antioxidant, was popularized by Linus Pauling who recommends taking pure ascorbic acid in amounts up to 15 grams a day for a variety of ailments. But large quantities of vitamin C may be harmful to the kidneys and can lead to deficiencies in bioflavonoids. Only small quantities of natural vitamin C in the form of acerola tablets can provide the same protection as large amounts of pure ascorbic acid, without the side effects.
*Guide to Superfoods*
http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...uperfoods.html

Quote:

NATURAL VERSUS SYNTHETIC VITAMIN C
It is common these days to use the terms vitamin C interchangeably with ascorbic acid. In fact, there are numerous differences between these two very distinct biological entities. Vitamin C, found in numerous plant and animal foods, is a necessary nutrient for humans in that we make none of our own vitamin C. Natural vitamin C is a complex mixture of at least 9 or 10 distinct molecular entities. These include ascorbic acid (the preservative part of the complex), tyrosinase (an enzyme), rutin, bioflavenoids, copper, manganese, and other enzymes and minerals. Each of these compounds has a synergistic effect with the other substances, the end result being a potent and complicated compound that has far-reaching biological effects. Some of these effects include reducing capillary fragility (thus reducing the tendency to bruising or bleeding), improving the integrity of the collagen fibers, binding and thereby neutralizing histamine (lessening allergies), and many other vital functions. Ascorbic acid has only one effect, that is anti-oxidation. While many nutritionists and physicians sing the praises of anti-oxidants in our diet, the fact is that excessive anti-oxidation inhibits our cellular mechanisms from digesting and disposing of unwanted tissue. This is perhaps why the latest studies on excessive use of ascorbic acid show that it may contribute to the development of coronary artery disease. This situation would never arise from the use of the whole vitamin C complex as found in natural foods.

--Tom Cowan, MD

Vitamin C: The Invisible Toothbrush
http://www.westonaprice.org/healthis...oothbrush.html


----------



## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Jane, have you found a good acerola that doesn't have sweeteners added?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

NOW is the only brand of Acerola powder that I know of and it has maltodextrin. I use Amla powder for DS from either Himalaya or Paradise Herbs. Neither has additives.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Could a person also use these to test for enough C?

http://www.nutri.com/wn/cs.html

I'm asking because I already have loose stool and I'm not sure that I will necessarily know when bowel tolerance is reached...And I REALLY want to do this.

I remembered MT mentioning C-stix (and that they don't make them anymore) so I Googled it and found these.

MT? Thoughts? Advice on using them?


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)




----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

I didn't need to bump, because now I have a post to make







:

Today I tried to find out my own personal optidose. I took a bolus dose of 3 grams (3000 milligrams) upon waking, around 10am, then 2grams every hour after that until bedtime. Except I missed two hours of it, so I ended up taking 21 grams in total. I have not yet reached my optidose! But it gets even more interesting: my usually soft, even 'Big D'-like stools have been formed today. Is this surprising only to me?

So tomorrow I am doing a bolus of 5 grams and taking 3 grams every hour thereafter to bowel tolerance. Man, 21 grams and nothing! Sheesh. I'm facing a couple of things on that list above (yeast and mercury), so I wonder if I need an IV? Does a regular MD do that, or do I need a naturopath?

And would the product MT mentioned here: http://livonlabs.com/ benefit me more? JaneS, want to go in on a case?


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Interesting you should ask that as my mom has a form of lymphoma and I've been starting to compile info to convince her.


JaneS, would you be willing to share your information that you're compiling? My mother has breast cancer, just had a modified radical mastectomy, and I have been wanting to compile the same sort of information for her. I have the book checked out from the library and am about th start reading it, but I don't get much time to read and research these days (my little one-year-old is about to walk!). I would so so appreciate anything you'd be willing to share (you can email me). And thank you for this thread, too!


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## pilesoflaundry (Dec 9, 2003)

I've had good luck taking vitamin c when I have a bad reflux attack. Yesterday I had a cup of coffee (yes I know better and shouldn't have, won't anymore) and before I was even finished I had a bonfire feeling in my stomach. I was urping and felt so gross. So I took some vitamin c and magnesium in hopes it would settle my stomach, I felt better about 20 minutes later and I was fine the rest of the night. I slept so good too!


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## carnelian (Feb 24, 2006)

I've been following this thread as well as the Immunity 101 thread in Vax. A good long while ago MT, you posted about the negatives of calcium ascorbate as a form of vitamin C and JaneS, you've also posted similar caveats. But I have looked and looked and can find nothing indicating that it is problematic. Do either of you well-informed ladies have any links supporting this info. I would like to be able to show something to my nutritionist. She advises calcium ascorbate as a vit C source and I've got nothing concrete to show her as to why it's not advisable. Thanks


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Carnelian,

Kalokerinos A, Dettman I, Dettman G.
*Is calcium ascorbate preferable to sodium ascorbate?*
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract

Kalokerinos A, Dettman I, Dettman G.
*Vitamin C: the dangers of calcium and safety of sodium ascorbate.*
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

Here is an old post that explains it:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ad.php?t=43682


----------



## bri276 (Mar 24, 2005)

does anyone have a suggestion of what I can do for DD when she goes in for cleft palate surgery in Oct? She won't be able to take much by mouth at all, last time was a fight (okay, a brawl) just to get a half an ounce of breastmilk into her by syringe would take half an hour. she was moderately dehydrated for days. She will have an IV in, will the hospital be able to give her a bolus of C if I ask?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Interesting references here:

*Ascorbic Acid and Some Other Modern Analogs of the Germ Theory*
http://faculty.washington.edu/ely/JOM4.html

Chasmyn,
I'm PM'ing you if the server cooperates!!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bri276*
does anyone have a suggestion of what I can do for DD when she goes in for cleft palate surgery in Oct? She won't be able to take much by mouth at all, last time was a fight (okay, a brawl) just to get a half an ounce of breastmilk into her by syringe would take half an hour. she was moderately dehydrated for days. She will have an IV in, will the hospital be able to give her a bolus of C if I ask?











They should, but be prepared beforehand to fight for exactly what you want and you probably need it in writing. I'm not sure what amount should be.

Are you giving her high vitamin cod liver oil?


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## bri276 (Mar 24, 2005)

no, right now I don't give her anything.


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## carnelian (Feb 24, 2006)

Thank-you JaneS, for taking the time to post those links. The first two however are coming up as 'no abstract available.' That last link was somewhat helpful tho I'm still confused about the issue. From what was said (I think it's not on to quote from other threads or I would) it appears that the problem is with excess calcium in the blood. If this is the case then what about other forms of calcium, why are they not problematic? If it's not the case then could you explain why calcium ascorbate is not advisable? Thanks again, your knowledge is much appreciated


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

I haven't found any abstracts for those studies online either. I would give your nutritionist the references and have her get the original articles herself (it might spur her on to do more research) or get them from your library.

Yes, as I understand it, other forms of calcium not absorbed by the body are problematic as well but I don't have references for that one. I do know that calcium is not well absorbed unless other nutrients are available: magnesium for one. Also fat soluble vits, for example, skim milk causes rickets and whole milk with A&D cures it. So excess calcium floating around without other nutrients could be the issue?

Maybe MT would have those Kalekerinos' studies if she pops her head in here...


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Lily,

*How to Get Intravenous Vitamin C Given to a Hospitalized Patient*
http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/chri...ed_patient.htm


----------



## mammom (Aug 13, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
The following toxins can be neutralized:

Alcohol,
...
Mercury
Lead
...
Aluminum
Fluoride, etc.

First, I just ordered Levy's book and I can't wait to get it.

I am wondering a couple of things about your list that I quoted. My bil is an alcoholic. If he were to find his optidose (is that the right word?), would he be able to kick his cravings more easily??

Also, my dad is starting to show signs of alzheimers. He is young (64) but was in the military, so most likely received tons of vaccines containing mercury and aluminum. My mom has controlled their aluminum intake for years (got rid of all her aluminum pans, baking powders, etc.), and they have been taking vitamin c (not SA, but a pill form) for years and years (probably more than 30 years). Could IV vit c help cleanse him of the toxins that could be encouraging the alzheimers?

(I should say, he has not been diagnosed with early alzheimers - we are just assuming his occasional confusion and memory loss is related to alzheimers, because his mother just died with alzheimers last year at the age of 90.)


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

See:

THE ORTHOMOLECULAR TREATMENT OF DRUG ADDICTION
by Kalekerinos and Dettman
http://www.*********/v/kalokerinos2.html

I really don't know re: Alzheimer's but given his history I would say it's very likely the vaccines had a big role to play. The ********* page on it might be a good place to start: http://www.*********/d/alzheimers.html

The thing with your parents taking vit. C for years and years is that if it's not high enough dosage it's not doing much. This has been the case with studies designed to "debunk" the power of vitamin C, the researchers give paltry doses and only once day (the half life in blood plasma is 30 minutes) and then are so condescending when it does no good.


----------



## mammom (Aug 13, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
The thing with your parents taking vit. C for years and years is that if it's not high enough dosage it's not doing much. This has been the case with studies designed to "debunk" the power of vitamin C, the researchers give paltry doses and only once day (the half life in blood plasma is 30 minutes) and then are so condescending when it does no good.

Thank you for all the links, Jane.

As for their dosages, they would take six grams in the a.m. and six at night. I think they have cut down their daily intake to three grams in the a.m. and three at night, and then dosing higher when sick (probably 1 gram per hour or so on top of a.m. and p.m. dosages). However, I don't think the quality of the pills is particularly high. My dad did read the ingredients to me a few months ago after I told him he should be taking SA, and I had to admit I was impressed with the "blend" of the vitamins (SA, ascorbic acid, and other bits and pieces), but they buy them from those ads you see in the Parade magazine in the Sunday paper... Maybe it's not that bad... Who knows?
I just assume they're not super high quality, but my parents are rarely sick and it seems to help.


----------



## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

We're dealing with county health inspectors because of my daughter's very high lead levels, and one of the brochures they gave us mentions that chronic lead poisoning over a lifetime might be related to Alzheimers, or at least senility.


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## milkamama (May 14, 2005)

hi,
a bit off topic...
i am curious about the differences between alma/acerola and sodium ascorbate. ds and i have been using sodium ascorbate for a while now, but i wasn't sure if a natural c would be more effective. ds has a lot of allergies/intolerances, so i'm always leery about adding something new.

any info is greatly appreciated!


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

I'm also wondering about acerola/amla vs. sa, especially since someone on another thread posted a link to a Susan Weed article saying that synthetic vitamin C causes aging of the arteries. Made me a bit worried about all the SA I've been taking.


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
NOW is the only brand of Acerola powder that I know of and it has maltodextrin. I use Amla powder for DS from either Himalaya or Paradise Herbs. Neither has additives.

Jane - do you have a good feel for how much amla = sa from a dosing perspective? I've got the amla now and am using it, but still can't get a good feel for what I should be aiming for. And I've got so many other variables going on with enzymes and food that it would be hard for me to do an optidose experiment right now.

Also - do you just break open the capsules for your son or did you find a powder somewhere? I'm considering giving to my 3 yr old, but she's pretty finicky when she thinks I'm hiding mystery powder in her food or drinks!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

subbing...


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## nonniecita (Jul 23, 2005)

Subbing...I was actually planning on getting this book today.
Jane- My 54-year-old dad was just diagnosed with COPD (chronic obstructive pulmonary disease: chronic asthma, emphysema, chronic bronchitis







) The Dr's ran a bunch of bloodwork and he's going to see them on 9/20. His blood pressure is normal and they think his heart's ok too. He smoked for almost 40 years. I've been doing lots of research on supplements and am wondering about sodium ascorbate. I gave him a bottle of NOW brand SA and have him taking 1/2 tsp a few times a day, haven't talked w/him about bowel tolerance yet. Does the book say anything about COPD or lung disease that you can share with me. I know he needs a lot more than the amt of vit c I told him to take but I just want to make sure it's ok (even though I know it is, iykwim). Any info would be GREATLY appreciated!!!
Thanks!!!







Michelle


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## Yin Yang (Jul 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momtezuma Tuatara*

Jane, Dr Levy is now very much into liposomal vitamin C, which he maintains is almost as effective as IV in emergency situation.

http://livonlabs.com/

I got that at my mercury-free dentist after removing my amalgam filling and I almost threw up!! It's the worst taste EVER.







:

question about sodium ascorbate - it's obviously very high in sodium - isn't that a problem? I am not very educated in this so pardon me if it's stupid question. All around me I see sodium free and low sodium products like sodium is your worst enemy........and then we take maga doses of it....is it good for us?
I take it too by the way


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

RE: Natural Vit. C vs. Chemical

I wish there was more info. on this. Because my gut feeling is that anything chemical taken everyday is not the way to go. But there is just so much evidence behind high vit. C benefits, I'm in a quandry myself.

LovinLiviLou,
I just break open capsules and put in his yogurt drink. That stuff is great, you can hide just about anything in it! (and I do)

Michelle,







to you and your dad. If it's not in my original post list, it's not in the book, so I don't remember lung disease.

Pavlina,
I think the sodium question was addressed in the original "Sodium Ascorbate" thread around here somewhere. In Vacc. forum I think.


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## purplegirl (Apr 5, 2004)

subbing.


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

I was thinking today. Let's say that I do have bad levels of mercury in my body and that getting my fillings out is a hardship. I was pondering that I could take the vitamin C opti-dose to neutralize the metal. Also, if I decide to treat my Lyme disease with C maybe that would also help the metals at the same time? (BTW, I am too overwhelmed







: with my other issues to really focus on the metal issue right now. I have decided to put that on the backburner and focus on the Lyme and restoring my nutrients and gut)

I need to order this book because I am meeting my dr in SF on the 14th. He is integrative so I think he will be open to alternatives.

Can I share? I was upset today because I went to my in-laws and my MIL asked me how I felt. I said I have a little arthritis in my hands today, but no biggie. Then MIL said, "_We decided that you don't have Lyme. Dad looked it up and only 95 people have it and it is overdiagnosed_"







WHAT!I felt very invalidated in my very real struggles (Plus, the baby that miscarried was due today).







Like they think I am just a hypochondriac who need therapy (MIL pretty much thinks people shoud be continually healing their childhood hurts and that everything is a spiritual/emotional issue) Plus they are really off in their Lyme facts. 23,000 peolpe were diagnosed in USA in 2004. 95 in CA that year. Also, I meet the CDC reqs for diagnosis. A positive test (which I have to be + in 5 or more bands) and symptoms. AHHHHH!







:

Thanks for listening,
Jennifer


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## nonniecita (Jul 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Michelle,







to you and your dad. If it's not in my original post list, it's not in the book, so I don't remember lung disease.


Thanks


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newcastlemama*
I was thinking today. Let's say that I do have bad levels of mercury in my body and that getting my fillings out is a hardship. I was pondering that I could take the vitamin C opti-dose to neutralize the metal. Also, if I decide to treat my Lyme disease with C maybe that would also help the metals at the same time? (BTW, I am too overwhelmed







: with my other issues to really focus on the metal issue right now. I have decided to put that on the backburner and focus on the Lyme and restoring my nutrients and gut)

I need to order this book because I am meeting my dr in SF on the 14th. He is integrative so I think he will be open to alternatives.

Can I share? I was upset today because I went to my in-laws and my MIL asked me how I felt. I said I have a little arthritis in my hands today, but no biggie. Then MIL said, "_We decided that you don't have Lyme. Dad looked it up and only 95 people have it and it is overdiagnosed_"







WHAT!I felt very invalidated in my very real struggles (Plus, the baby that miscarried was due today).







Like they think I am just a hypochondriac who need therapy (MIL pretty much thinks people shoud be continually healing their childhood hurts and that everything is a spiritual/emotional issue) Plus they are really off in their Lyme facts. 23,000 peolpe were diagnosed in USA in 2004. 95 in CA that year. Also, I meet the CDC reqs for diagnosis. A positive test (which I have to be + in 5 or more bands) and symptoms. AHHHHH!







:

Thanks for listening,
Jennifer









mama Sorry about your insensitive family.








JMO, But if you are able to focus on removing the metals, everything else will get better as a result.

This is what I'm using to chelate dd and myself:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=503645
It is *amazing*. I was totally skeptical at first but the changes in dd have been profound. (I'm not seeing too much improvement yet but I'm a harder case.







)


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Yes, Jennifer, high C will probably work on both issues at the same time. Selenium is also a very important supplement for detoxing metals. I'm sorry your family is whacked! Stay strong and listen to your own intuition.


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

Annikate-I will be checking out the stuff you are using. It's sounds gentle and natural thus far. (Chelation sounds scary to me right now. I guess that is why I am so reluctant to think about it too.)

JaneS-I am taking a lot of vitamins/minerals/aminos right now on my program. The good thing is that I am on about 3g + of vitamin C so far. I just checked the bottles and I am on lots of selinium too.
I wonder if the reason why I have been experiencing arthritis again is because I had to quit my vitamins/mins for a week? (I had to isolate the one that was making me nauseous). I guess I will see how my arhtritis is when I am totally back on them again.

Isn't it a bummer that when you feel sick is also the time when you have to do the most research?!







:







Even though I am a research nerd at heart









I got some acerola and Reuteri powder for my family today. Want to keep them on the path to wellness too.









The good thing with my in-laws is that dh at least recognizes how wacky







they are too.







Thanks for your support mamas....

Jennifer


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Jane, one thing that concerned me about Levy's book was that he said you should not supplement calcium at the same time you are doing optidoses of vitamin C, because it will cause the calcium to precipitate or something. He said most supplemental calcium isn't very bioavailable. I take dolomite since I'm doing pretty much no dairy now. Should I be worried about combining dolomite with large amounts of SA?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

I don't remember that... this is not in connection with ester-C?
Dolomite has magnesium too. As I understand it, it is pretty well absorbed as calcium supplements go.


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## azdesertrn (Apr 2, 2003)

Has anyone tested their optimum dose using a "full spectrum vitamin c formula"? I have Garden of Life "Living vitamin C" and have found I can't take 3 tablets at a time- 3 tablets is a serving and is only 500 mg total. I do fine with one at a time. This just seems like a really low dose to be reaching bowel tolerance.

Kaye


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## Yin Yang (Jul 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *azdesertrn*
Has anyone tested their optimum dose using a "full spectrum vitamin c formula"? I have Garden of Life "Living vitamin C" and have found I can't take 3 tablets at a time- 3 tablets is a serving and is only 500 mg total. I do fine with one at a time. This just seems like a really low dose to be reaching bowel tolerance.

Kaye

I think you need to read the whole thread to get the answer. I checked out the product you asked about and it does not contain sodium asocrbate. It has "living" vitamin C in form of acerola and other not specified form or vit.C. You can not do the optidose with this product. It's totally different thing.


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## azdesertrn (Apr 2, 2003)

Yes, I do realize they are completely different things, that's why I was asking if anyone had tried it. There are a couple of mentions of acerola in the thread including someone wondering what the conversion ratio would be. I realize the more natural forms of C are supposed to be much more potent, but it seems like I should be able to at least take the recommended serving on the bottle without reaching bowel tolerance. (I was not testing for tolerance it was an accidental discovery)

My gut feeling is that it is healthier to be taking the natural forms if possible.

Kaye


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## Yin Yang (Jul 9, 2003)

It was also mentioned somewhere in this or the "sodium ascorbate" thread that the natural form of vitamin C in high doses have side efects and can damage some organs.


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## Quagmire (Sep 27, 2005)

I have been reading this thread with interest and last week, got some Vitamin C to try to find my optidose.

However it doesn't seem to be working for me. I was up around 8 grams with no sign of loose stool, but MUCH gas. We are talking really horrible nasty gas that hangs in the air like a dense cloud for 30 minutes after it's produced







: DH is complaining that he can't walk around the house freely anymore and I can't say I blame him.

Anyone else with this issue? Advice?







:


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## Yin Yang (Jul 9, 2003)

Oh the "vitamin C" farts....







we all have them here, cause we are all taking it.
Just keep taking it till you reach your bowl tolerance, that's only think I can tell. Even with 8grams you obviously did not reach it yet.....


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

RE: gas

I don't know for sure... but it seems to me that "bowel tolerance" means not just having diarrhea, but having any intestinal symptoms at all. Because bowel tolerance test is designed to measure how much your body is absorbing before it dumps the excess. Once it dumps, your body has reached sufficient oral load (IV can be higher obviously b/c bypasses the gut). So therefore any evidence of dumping would mean that tolerance is reached right?

So interestingly enough when I started testing my tolerance I topped out at about 12-14 grams of sodium ascorbate (plus using 1/5th ratio of bioflavonoids dunno if that makes a difference). So I was taking 10-12 grams/day and then after about a week I kept getting symptoms. I must have "tanked up"









So gradually I dropped down and now I'm at Sodium ascorbate tolerance of 8 grams

Ascorbic acid I did yesterday and it seems to be lower: 6 grams (and _yuck_ I so don't like tolerance test using AA. SA is soooo much better!)


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## traycanadian (Jul 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
So interestingly enough when I started testing my tolerance I topped out at about 12-14 grams of sodium ascorbate (plus using 1/5th ratio of bioflavonoids dunno if that makes a difference). So I was taking 10-12 grams/day and then after about a week I kept getting symptoms. I must have "tanked up"









Jane, or anyone else, where do you get your bioflavonoids and can you get them in crystal/powder form or just tablets or caplets? Sorry in advance if this has been addressed already, I've been following the thread over the last couple weeks but may have missed a few posts! Thanks to everyone for sharing their Vit. C info!

Tracy


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## Yin Yang (Jul 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *traycanadian* 
Jane, or anyone else, where do you get your bioflavonoids and can you get them in crystal/powder form or just tablets or caplets? Sorry in advance if this has been addressed already, I've been following the thread over the last couple weeks but may have missed a few posts! Thanks to everyone for sharing their Vit. C info!

Tracy


http://www.koshervitamins.com/shop/s...sp?Item_ID=437


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## traycanadian (Jul 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yin Yang* 
http://www.koshervitamins.com/shop/s...sp?Item_ID=437


Thank you! I'm ordering some today!


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## Yin Yang (Jul 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *traycanadian* 
Thank you! I'm ordering some today!

no problem, it's been posted in this thread.
here are some other ones:

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/webap...r=1&Ntk=Level1
and this one:
http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00138.html (300grams is about 10oz I think)


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I know this has been said, but can someone reiterate:
What is the ratio of SA to bioflavanoids? Is hesperidin a *form* of bioflavanoid or another term for it?

Ordered the book btw, but it's on a reeeally long backorder.


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## LandonsMom (Jul 22, 2005)

subbing


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

I've been meaning to ask a couple of questions.

A little history: I have malabsorption, loose stools, floaty.

I have been making every attempt to take SA to optidose (with bioflavinoids) as much as possible. Trouble is, my optidose seems to ne higher than I am able to take. Rather than getting watery diarrhea, my stool actually becomes formed. Still floaty, but formed. One time I thought I made my optidose at 23 grams. Daily I take 3 grams an hour as long as I am awake, so probably from 10a-10p. I might miss a dose here and there, so let's guess that daily I am taking at least 21 - 24 grams. Still no watery D.

I seem to remember reading that a body cannot absorb more than 1 gram per hour, so any more is a waste. Is this true? If so, am I wasting my SA taking 3 grams per hour, and also if true, how can I get enough in me to reach my optidose?

Please please please help! I really want this to work, I can see by the improved stool already that it makes a huge difference for me, so am I getting the whole 24 grams I'm taking or is there a better way?


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

I'm Bumping this cause I am following closely. Want to read the book, but I want to read a lot of books







and who knows when I will actually get to.


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## momto l&a (Jul 31, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artisticat* 
I'm Bumping this cause I am following closely. Want to read the book, but I want to read a lot of books







and who knows when I will actually get to.

IMO its not really so much of a book so sit down and read but a reference book when you need ideas of how to treat X,y or z

My mom did sit down and read the whole thing


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

anyone seen this?

http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorba...v8-n4-p229.htm


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)




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## AutumnMama (Jan 2, 2004)

Bumping this, I was on a SA search and found this interesting


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
anyone seen this?

http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorba...v8-n4-p229.htm

Very interesting huh? and Hilary Butler's paper on vit. C and endotoxins is excellent too:

*The Role of Vaccines in SIDS*
http://vaxfacts.com/files/folders/mi...entry1393.aspx


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Very interesting huh? and Hilary Butler's paper on vit. C and endotoxins is excellent too:

*The Role of Vaccines in SIDS*
http://vaxfacts.com/files/folders/mi...entry1393.aspx









Jane!









Thanks for bumping this thread newcastlemama.


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## summerblu (Feb 4, 2004)

I've started taking mega doses of calcium ascorbate. Realized I should be taking sodium ascorbate and not calcium ascorbate. This is day 3. I felt great day 1. Days 2 and 3...I have a terrible headache. Have not reached bowel tolerance. I'm thinking I should stop taking this because of how my body is reacting. Any suggestions would be very helpful. I feel really ill.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Ugh, that doesn't sound fun!

Just guessing here... but what about magnesium? It's great for headaches. And maybe it would do something to the free calcium in your system? Might be worth a shot.


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## CeciMami (Nov 15, 2005)

:


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## summerblu (Feb 4, 2004)

Thanks JaneS. I think I was also pretty dehydrated. I reached bowel tolerance on Day 4 and was pretty wiped out and stopped taking the CA. I will start taking it again today. I'd really love to find a how to guide. You know, work on the following things for a healthier consistency. I feel like I keep stumbling on new things, like VitC, try it but don't really know how it all fits together. Any suggestions?


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## chandistar (Jul 25, 2006)

bump


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## mammom (Aug 13, 2004)

Thanks for bumping this! I've been thinking about this thread for a couple of weeks, meaning to ask this question...

I turned a friend of mine onto the Bronson Sodium Ascorbate a few months ago and about one month ago she called Bronson to find out where the Sodium Ascorbate comes from... The woman she spoke to said that it is derived from CORN. My friend asked, "well, is it GMO-free??" and the woman said they TRY to get GMO-free, but there are no guarantees nowadays.

Is there any other source for SA that's not corn?? Does anyone know of another place to buy it? I'd love to find a differently derived source.

And, I suppose this might be a little off-topic, but hasn't Europe banned GMO foods? Couldn't they (Bronson) source their corn from Europe??

I am getting so freaked out about anything synthetic. I am so bummed about this!

Thanks for any insight...

Melissa


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

I have heard they can make vitamin C from the sago palm, but I don't know if it's available as SA. There are natural forms of vitamin C, but they aren't sodium ascorbate. Like acerola concentrate, amla, etc.


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## sedalbj (Mar 17, 2004)

subbing, very interesting!


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## ramlita (Mar 26, 2002)

Bump!

I'm finally getting through Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, and I'm thinking this book will be next.
I bought each of them during fits of enthusiasm, which had dwindled by the time they came in the mail.







:


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

N&PD was pretty tough, with the writing style being just enough different from contemporary writing to make my brain start to spin. I have to admit, I skimmed and/or skipped many of the specific culture chapters, and focused on the big-picture chapters. Let us know how you find this book (and whether we should all buy it).


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

bump -- anyone know of a list of doctors who can do IV Vitamin C?


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## MamaMamaMama! (Sep 30, 2006)

Thanks for the bump; this was an interesting thread to run across. I tried giving SA to my ds, 3, but every single time I gave him even a little tiny bit (even 1/8 of a tsp) he had runny stools. Does anyone know why this would happen? Could his bowel tolerance really be so low? TIA.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

I think JaneS said her ds has the same reaction and she only uses natural vitamin C now. If your ds has a corn sensitivity, that could cause it. Most SA is made from corn. I have a bottle of Nutribiotic that says that it contains no corn residue and is hypoallergenic, but I think it was also made from corn originally.


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## MamaMamaMama! (Sep 30, 2006)

Wow, that has to be it--he is corn sensitive. Thanks so much. Any recommendations for a natural Vitamin C? That's ascorbic acid, right?


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Amla powder, acerola powder are the main natural sources of vitamin C.


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## Mirzam (Sep 9, 2002)

Another option is Lypo-Spheric Vitamin C.


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## MoonWillow (May 24, 2006)

I'm curious to hear more about this Lypo-Spheric Vitamin C. Also, I had no idea that SA powder was made from corn. I give it to my allergic 11 month old regularly and although I don't believe she has a corn allergy, I don't know if I feel right about giving her a corn product so often. Am I right to be concerned?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Re: Lypospheric vit C
Dr. Levy says it bypasses the digestive system and is absorbed fully... doesn't produce the bowel flush, we have not tried it yet. Another natural fruit derived product is NOW's Tru-C, for everyday.

Pookietooth,
Check AAEM doctors http://www.aaemonline.org/


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Yes, I would be concerned giving it everyday if there is a corn allergy/intolerance going on. Which btw our holistic dietician says corn intolerance points to yeast issues but you might know that already.


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## MamaMamaMama! (Sep 30, 2006)

Thanks for that info, JaneS; I had no idea corn allergy pointed to yeast. A lot of what I've been reading has been pointing me in the yeast direction with my ds so that is very interesting!


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## MamaMamaMama! (Sep 30, 2006)

JaneS (or anyone else!), can you give me a recommendation on a brand of natural vitamin C that doesn't have corn in it? I keep coming up with ones with additives like maltodextrin...


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## MoonWillow (May 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Yes, I would be concerned giving it everyday if there is a corn allergy/intolerance going on. Which btw our holistic dietician says corn intolerance points to yeast issues but you might know that already.

Thanks! Well I don't think she has a corn allergy (although I'm not 100%). My concern was more about the fact that she tends towards food allergies (has a few severe ones that I know of so far) and I was wondering if maybe its not a good idea to bombard her with a possible allergen each day. I thought that allergies were developed that way sometimes (by frequent exposure) but I know very little of what I am talking about.
I do think that my yeast/leaky gut issues probably affected/caused her allergies. I wonder if those issues on top of getting SA daily could push her towards a corn allergy. Maybe when this (3lb) bottle is gone I'll try the Lypo-Spheric Vitamin C with her.
Thanks!


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## momofmine (Jan 8, 2007)

bumping for someone


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## changingseasons (Mar 24, 2008)

I just found this thread, and haven't read the whole thing but wanted to comment on the optimal dosage issue. I noticed that the book in the OP said to dose every hour, but some people reported problems with that.

I just finished reading _Digestive Wellness_ which gives instructions on doing a Vitamin C detox, which is basically the same thing as finding your optimal dosage. She says to *dose every 10-15 minutes*, and that will spare you the cramping & bloating. She also recommends doing that 'flush' weekly for detoxing the body of toxins and staying healthy.

Again, sorry if I'm repeating anyone... haven't read the whole thread yet.


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## mamaof5boys (Mar 6, 2008)

I am really embarrassed to ask this







: I've quickly read through the posts in this thread and am still confused about Vitamin C!! What is the difference between ascorbic acid and sodium ascorbate? I was talking to my naturopath this week about sodium ascorbate and she wasn't familiar with it- she told me it is used as a preservative in foods. She is a great doctor and I really feels like she knows what she's talking about so I was really confused that she didn't know about this! I have used buffered ascorbic acid in the past when I feel a cold coming on and it gets rid of it quickly.

Also, I'm planning on ordering the book: Curing the Incurable: Vitamin C, Infectious Diseases, and Toxins. It seems like the body would respond better to Vitamin C when given only during times of illness. Does the body build up a tolerance to where you actually need to take more over time? Sorry for being so ignorant about it!!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *changingseasons* 
I just found this thread, and haven't read the whole thing but wanted to comment on the optimal dosage issue. I noticed that the book in the OP said to dose every hour, but some people reported problems with that.

I just finished reading _Digestive Wellness_ which gives instructions on doing a Vitamin C detox, which is basically the same thing as finding your optimal dosage. She says to *dose every 10-15 minutes*, and that will spare you the cramping & bloating. She also recommends doing that 'flush' weekly for detoxing the body of toxins and staying healthy.

Again, sorry if I'm repeating anyone... haven't read the whole thread yet.









What type of vit C does this author recommend? Sodium ascorbate? I'm curious b/c I've been wanting to do a gentle detox and this seems like the way to go, rather than buy all those pre-packaged things.


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:

She also recommends doing that 'flush' weekly for detoxing the body of toxins and staying healthy.

Quote:

What type of vit C does this author recommend? Sodium ascorbate? I'm curious b/c I've been wanting to do a gentle detox and this seems like the way to go, rather than buy all those pre-packaged things.
Interesting, I've never heard of this except from my HCP. I'm doing the weekly flushes (if what changingseasons mentioned is what I think it is), and it brought my vitC need down to a reasonable baseline (4-5g/day). I use Perque's vitamin C (the powdered kind) but for daily use I just use SA from Bronson. Wow! I didn't know where my HCP got this idea, but it's been good for me, and she said it was fine to do while I was still nursing (and she didn't okay much).


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## changingseasons (Mar 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
What type of vit C does this author recommend? Sodium ascorbate? I'm curious b/c I've been wanting to do a gentle detox and this seems like the way to go, rather than buy all those pre-packaged things.

I wish I could remember... I just returned the book to the library. I'm using a straight pharmaceutical-grade ascorbic acid powder- unbuffered, no additives (DD has serious food intolerances). I got it at Whole Foods.


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## joybird (Feb 2, 2006)

So to do the flush how much Vit C do you take? For how long?


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## changingseasons (Mar 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *joybird* 
So to do the flush how much Vit C do you take? For how long?

It's the same process as determining your optimal daily dosage- you take a certain amount (sorry, don't remember the quantity they recommend in the book) every 10-15 minutes until you have loose, watery stools. Keep track of how much you have taken, and that is the amount that you would use each week to do the flush. It's basically taking just over your optimal dosage, so that you reach tissue saturation and your body starts 'flushing'.


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## Crazybean (Apr 24, 2008)

I've read about this too and I'm very interested in it! I was just wondering how you would go about finding a doctor who supports vit c IV infusions and how to find out what their solution is really made of? I give IV's all day long and have never come across a doctor who ordered vit c in the hundreds of pt's I've had







I wonder if my area is too "bad in the times".


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:

So to do the flush how much Vit C do you take? For how long?
Joybird, I do this:
http://www.perque.com/pdfs/Pt_Ascorbate_Slush_FIN.pdf

I don't use it to determine daily bowel tolerance vitC amount, just to reduce toxic load.


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## mamaof5boys (Mar 6, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaof5boys* 
I am really embarrassed to ask this







: I've quickly read through the posts in this thread and am still confused about Vitamin C!! What is the difference between ascorbic acid and sodium ascorbate? I was talking to my naturopath this week about sodium ascorbate and she wasn't familiar with it- she told me it is used as a preservative in foods. She is a great doctor and I really feels like she knows what she's talking about so I was really confused that she didn't know about this! I have used buffered ascorbic acid in the past when I feel a cold coming on and it gets rid of it quickly.

Also, I'm planning on ordering the book: Curing the Incurable: Vitamin C, Infectious Diseases, and Toxins. It seems like the body would respond better to Vitamin C when given only during times of illness. Does the body build up a tolerance to where you actually need to take more over time? Sorry for being so ignorant about it!!

Hi Mamas! Could someone please help me understand this?? Thank you!!


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## MoonWillow (May 24, 2006)

Bumping this old thread because I am hoping for some wisdom. How do I get Vitamin C into a kid with both corn AND citrus issues?

I was just looking at the Lypo-Spheric™ Vitamin C and it seems to have citrus.









Do I have ANY options whatsoever?

Help please!
TIA


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## changingseasons (Mar 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MotherWren* 
Bumping this old thread because I am hoping for some wisdom. How do I get Vitamin C into a kid with both corn AND citrus issues?

I was just looking at the Lypo-Spheric™ Vitamin C and it seems to have citrus.









Do I have ANY options whatsoever?

Help please!
TIA

The only Vitamin C that I've found that is NOT corn-derived is TwinLab Allerg-C, which is derived from sago palm. Probably not the best type of C, but it's the only one we can tolerate.


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## MoonWillow (May 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *changingseasons* 
The only Vitamin C that I've found that is NOT corn-derived is TwinLab Allerg-C, which is derived from sago palm. Probably not the best type of C, but it's the only one we can tolerate.

Thank you. I have to think that any is better than none!


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

I think Amla or acerola powder might work, but I'm not sure. Also, Nutribiotic has a hypoallergenic sodium ascorbate that it advertises as containing no corn residue, although I think it's still corn derived.
Amla: http://www.herbal-provider.com/amla.html
acerola: http://www.kalyx.com/store/proddetai.../2170/file.htm
ascorbate from sago palm: http://www.zearth.com/Twinlab_-_Twin...m_campaign=FRO


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## MoonWillow (May 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
I think Amla or acerola powder might work, but I'm not sure. Also, Nutribiotic has a hypoallergenic sodium ascorbate that it advertises as containing no corn residue, although I think it's still corn derived.
Amla: http://www.herbal-provider.com/amla.html
acerola: http://www.kalyx.com/store/proddetai.../2170/file.htm
ascorbate from sago palm: http://www.zearth.com/Twinlab_-_Twin...m_campaign=FRO

Thank you!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaof5boys* 
I am really embarrassed to ask this







: I've quickly read through the posts in this thread and am still confused about Vitamin C!! What is the difference between ascorbic acid and sodium ascorbate? I was talking to my naturopath this week about sodium ascorbate and she wasn't familiar with it- she told me it is used as a preservative in foods. She is a great doctor and I really feels like she knows what she's talking about so I was really confused that she didn't know about this! I have used buffered ascorbic acid in the past when I feel a cold coming on and it gets rid of it quickly.

Also, I'm planning on ordering the book: Curing the Incurable: Vitamin C, Infectious Diseases, and Toxins. It seems like the body would respond better to Vitamin C when given only during times of illness. Does the body build up a tolerance to where you actually need to take more over time? Sorry for being so ignorant about it!!

Sodium ascorbate is ph buffered, so your body can absorb more than ascorbic acid. You can make your own SA from AA plus baking soda 2:1 ratio.

Calcium ascorbate is bad according to Hilary Butler who knows more about vitamin C than anyone else on the planet I think! The free calcium in the body is not a good thing.

How much vitamin C the body needs is much debated. Most animals make their own vit. C, we lost the ability to do so eons ago but still have the inactive gene interestingly enough! Linus Pauling said 10 grams/day if healthy right? That is basically what Klenner said, 10-15 grams/day for an adult if healthy, more in times of stress. Every cell in the body uses vit. C. I do know that if you take large doses and then stop it can create a problem b/c the body does get used to it. But even this is debated as well.

I have long flip flopped between natural vit. C such as acerola and amla and SA. I have to say, whether it's my immune system or accumulated toxicities, higher amounts of SA is clearly better. Bioflavoniods supplemented 1/5th of SA dose.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Klenner dose for a child was a gram/day for every year old, up to 10 years old and 10 grams/day.


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

I don't remember where Hilary Butler got the numbers, but she usually quoted 50mg/kg for a healthy person, which works out to 23mg/lb. I mention it because just recently, I actually got my son's vitC need (32lbs now) down to about this amount (this is about 725mg/day, divided).







Given that I've dosed him at much higher doses in the past, I was thrilled. And interested that the amount we got down to, and plateaued at was pretty similar to her formula.


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## Koalamom (Dec 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *azdesertrn* 
Has anyone tested their optimum dose using a "full spectrum vitamin c formula"? I have Garden of Life "Living vitamin C" and have found I can't take 3 tablets at a time- 3 tablets is a serving and is only 500 mg total. I do fine with one at a time. This just seems like a really low dose to be reaching bowel tolerance.

Kaye


Quote:

Reply from Yin Yang:
I think you need to read the whole thread to get the answer. I checked out the product you asked about and it does not contain sodium asocrbate. It has "living" vitamin C in form of acerola and other not specified form or vit.C. You can not do the optidose with this product. It's totally different thing.

Quote:

Reply from azdesertrn:
Yes, I do realize they are completely different things, that's why I was asking if anyone had tried it. There are a couple of mentions of acerola in the thread including someone wondering what the conversion ratio would be. I realize the more natural forms of C are supposed to be much more potent, but it seems like I should be able to at least take the recommended serving on the bottle without reaching bowel tolerance. (I was not testing for tolerance it was an accidental discovery)

My gut feeling is that it is healthier to be taking the natural forms if possible.

Kaye
I read this a few pages back, and would like more info on this. It makes sence to me to to use natural vitamin C. I have the same questions as Azdesertrn.

Also how about using camu camu powder for vitmin C dosage? I have used that stuff, and it is sweet, and easy to take. I can mix it in yogurt and give it to my toddler easily. How much of that would you take?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

I am so conflicted about the smaller amounts of "natural vitamin C/acerola/amla" vs. larger amounts of "ascorbic acid/sodium ascorbate" argument.

On one hand, the first what healthy traditional diets contained. However, most animals make their own vitamin C in terms of 15 grams/day of ascorbic acid (no animal's body makes amla!) for a healthy human adult. We lost the ability to make our own ascorbic acid many moons ago, but the inactive gene still exists.

Now turning that gene back on would be some discovery!

I will say I feel better and an more cold/flu resistant taking higher amounts of sodium ascorbate and ascorbic acid. Whether that's my immune system or metal toxicities I don't know but that is what I'm doing at the moment (with small amounts of bioflavonoids).

The idea of this thread is using larger amounts of SA/AA to *treat* the body in terms of illness, disease and toxicities. I just have never seen the evidence (or even a complete discussion other than theoretical) one could do that with natural vitamin C and that truly gives me pause. I've come to understand there are certain supplements a modern body fighting these foes might really need. Of course remembering that anything unnatural could carry a risk of stressing the body itself? Oy, such a conundrum.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Moneca tried it with natural amla capsules I think and couldn't do it, something like 16 or 20 she took? I never did... those bottles are so darn expensive I couldn't make myself take 1/3 of it in a sitting!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

well, FWIW I think you hit the nail on the head. I'm not sure you can or should do it in this way "naturally." However what is going on in my body is not natural and therefore needs to be controlled and compensated for. I hear you though. I dont' think it's the greatest idea to be supplementing with vitamin C at high doses for alot of reasons, but I do it for very specific ones that have measurable results.

I'm going to be trying a new therapy (new to me) soon that uses sequential therapy to try and clear out the toxins and shocks from vaccinations backwards through the timeline. I don't know if it's going to work, but I have so much damage that it's worth a try. We'll see. Then there wouldn't be a huge need to do unnatural things becuase the load would be lifted. I have successfully drained, detoxed and repaired my liver. Now that my numbers are good I feel like I am ready to take the next step.

Sigh. It's always that balance, you know? It's not natural, but neither are the chemicals, metals and other crap that we've put into our bodies. Something has to give.


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## Koalamom (Dec 27, 2007)

I muscle tested for 1500mg (2 tsp)of camu camu, and had succes in stoping my gums from receeding from that. The natural stuff must do something even in that small amount.


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluebirdmama1* 
I muscle tested for 1500mg (2 tsp)of camu camu, and had succes in stoping my gums from receeding from that. The natural stuff must do something even in that small amount.

It makes me think we need to figure out what we're each dealing with and work from there. For us, it's also heavy metals (and probably assorted other toxins) and SA has been an important part of what we're doing, but it's not everyone's problem. So if it looks like it's improving things for you, then that seems like proof enough, eh?

In fact, threads like this may tend to disproportionately represent people really messed up by things like environmental toxins because conventional medicine doesn't deal with things like that as much as alternative medicine, and then in your path to getting healthy you (well, I mean I) end up someplace like this.


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## Marnica (Oct 4, 2008)

I am giving SA to my 6.5 month old. Do I need to worry about the sodium in it with him being so little?? I can't find any other from of C that is as concentrated. ie ascorbic acid. The stuff you can buy for babies is like 70mg/ serving. Id be going through a bottle every few days! But I do wonder about the amount of sodium in the SA and any effect it may have on a baby this age?????


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## jemar (Nov 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
I don't remember where Hilary Butler got the numbers, but she usually quoted 50mg/kg for a healthy person, which works out to 23mg/lb. I mention it because just recently, I actually got my son's vitC need (32lbs now) down to about this amount (this is about 725mg/day, divided).







Given that I've dosed him at much higher doses in the past, I was thrilled. And interested that the amount we got down to, and plateaued at was pretty similar to her formula.

Would you use this conversion when giving a toddler amla?


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jemar* 
Would you use this conversion when giving a toddler amla?

I have zero experience with amla. Anecdotally it seems like bowel tolerance may be less with stuff like amla, but I really don't know. She was specifically talking about SA (or ascorbic acid, I think, but ew, that tastes vile alone).


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## AprilM (Sep 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marnica* 
I am giving SA to my 6.5 month old. Do I need to worry about the sodium in it with him being so little?? I can't find any other from of C that is as concentrated. ie ascorbic acid. The stuff you can buy for babies is like 70mg/ serving. Id be going through a bottle every few days! But I do wonder about the amount of sodium in the SA and any effect it may have on a baby this age?????

I am bumping this thread because I would like to know also if SA is safe for a baby this age, and if so, what kind of dosage would be recommended for a daily regime?
Thanks!


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Bumping. Just found it and want to read through it.

Pat


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## MoonWillow (May 24, 2006)

I just put this in the Resources sticky


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

:d


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## teresaevans (Oct 23, 2009)

Hi,

I just discovered this thread so maybe the conversation can be restarted a year later.

I just want to say that I am very excited to see people discussing vitamin & mineral IVs b/c they are truly amazing in their capacity to heal when other normal measures aren't working. I am a naturopathic physician and licensed midwife in Seattle, WA and I actually specialize in IVs. So, feel free to ask me questions. And, if you are in the Seattle area, feel free to look us up for treatment options.

One condition that was missing from the original post: MONO (cmv or ebv viruses) are both helped very quickly with high dose Vit C. Truly a blessing for those that have been fatigued with mono for many months.

Best,
Teresa


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## ramlita (Mar 26, 2002)

Cool stuff- and timely!


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## mommac2006 (Sep 28, 2007)

wrong thread


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## BandTsmama (Jun 9, 2013)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JaneS*
> 
> This book is an absolute revelation to me. A must for the non vaxer or anyone who is considering not vaxing. (Thank you MT for suggesting it!
> 
> ...


I am curren
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JaneS*
> 
> This book is an absolute revelation to me. A must for the non vaxer or anyone who is considering not vaxing. (Thank you MT for suggesting it!
> 
> ...


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## BandTsmama (Jun 9, 2013)

So I am new to this forum stuff and am totally making a fool of my self trying to post!! I am usin sodium ascorbate on my 19mth old daughter to help with whooping cough. Tonight I noticed she is bloated. Help!!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

That means she is not absorbing it and it's staying in the gut instead.

I would either do lower amounts of sodium ascorbate and more often to see if that is better tolerated, or use liposomal.

http://amzn.to/11svRrg


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## BandTsmama (Jun 9, 2013)

I will try lowering it. Thanks! I upped it to 1/4 tsp which is 1112mg every hour. I will half that. Thanks!


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## BandTsmama (Jun 9, 2013)

Also How will I know it's working??


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## Asiago (Jul 1, 2009)

You should see a very noticeable iimprovement in 12-24 hours.


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## BandTsmama (Jun 9, 2013)

She
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asiago*
> 
> You should see a very noticeable iimprovement in 12-24 hours.[/qu
> 
> During the day she I loose loose as far as her cough goes. Night time is worse. Any suggestions there?


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## BandTsmama (Jun 9, 2013)

During the day she I loose loose as far as her cough goes. Night time is worse. Any suggestions there?


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## BandTsmama (Jun 9, 2013)

How do I dose the lypo-spheric?


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## Asiago (Jul 1, 2009)

I have no experience with it.


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## Ethelpea (Mar 3, 2010)

I've not read the thread, just went to to last page, so forgive me if I'm missing something.

REGARDING lypo, IIRC (and that is a big IF) one gram of lypo approximates 5-6 grams INTRAVENOUS. Is that right? Check the LIVON website, maybe they'll have info. You won't (or shouldn't) hit bowel tolerance with lypo, therefore you won't have bloating. You will just know she is getting better, because, well, she's getting better. You won't be able to rely on bowel tolerance, though.

Personally, I have never had to take more than 2 packs of lypo at a time before I started feeling relief. Worse case, I'll take 6 packs of lypo a day (2 packs/3x a day) for a day and I'm better  I can't say enough good about this stuff. It is expensive, though. So that's a drawback. I'll go back and see if I can find more information from your post.

There are two lypo formulations I know of. I've used them both. First is the Livon brand, second is the one Mercola recommends. The livon is in packet form...you squeeze it into juice and gently stir and swallow. The Mercola formulation is in capsules - 2 capsules equals one serving (so, 2 capsules of the mercola equals one packet of the Livon. Supposedly.) I like them both. I was skeptical of the Mercola formula b/c it was about 1/2 the cost of the Livon, but it seems to work well.

Edited to add that vitamincfoundation.org has some very good information on liposomal c. It's under one of the 'forums', I believe.


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## BandTsmama (Jun 9, 2013)

Wow thank you for your input. I am not seeing improvement with sodium ascorbate other ten she is coughing up phlegm. I just have no clue why to look for to know of she is better etc


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