# Birthing with an undilated cervix



## Media Mama (Mar 19, 2004)

Has anyone else given birth when your cervix was not completely dilated? I've done it twice now and I'm wondering how unusual that is.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Beats me, no one ever checked.

-Angela


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## CalebsMama05 (Nov 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Beats me, no one ever checked.

-Angela

ot I love your posts.







You always say just what I'm thinking









OP-nope i was fully dialated both times.


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## ApprenticeMomma (Apr 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Media Mama* 
Has anyone else given birth when your cervix was not completely dilated? I've done it twice now and I'm wondering how unusual that is.

Sounds interesting... how did you manage that?
Were they c/s births?


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## pamamidwife (May 7, 2003)

do you mean you weren't dilated to ten centimeters? if so, ten centimeters is an arbitrary number - smaller babies need less diameter, larger more.


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

I'm going to assume that you were fully dialated... but maybe fully dialated for you (and/or your baby) is less than a 10. They don't even use a ruler to check, either, they just feel the position with their hands.

If your body transitioned to pushing and you successfully birthed the baby without tearing your cervix, you were fully dialated!


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## Munchkimo (May 26, 2005)

I hope I'm not threadjacking here. Would having a woman who is pushing involuntarily at 7.5-8cm (as determined by 3 different "professionals") who is birthing an 8lb 5oz baby be reason for concern in your minds?


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## doulakris (Jul 26, 2005)

I pushed at 9cm. I had been at 6cm for 20 hours, and he was getting distressed. Finally I agreed to pit and after 4 hours I was 9. So the midwife said that was good enough and I better start pushing. It all worked out fine.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Munchkimo* 
I hope I'm not threadjacking here. Would having a woman who is pushing involuntarily at 7.5-8cm (as determined by 3 different "professionals") who is birthing an 8lb 5oz baby be reason for concern in your minds?

I think that if she had the urge to push, she should push. Unless something besides random numbers is showing a problem, it's probably not a problem.

There is no need to check before pushing.

-Angela


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## soybeansmama (Jan 26, 2006)

I don't understand the 10 cm is fully dialated thing...not all women are the same size in other parts of their bodies, why do we have a one dialation fits all?

Full dialation is where the cervix is passed the baby's ears. Maybe that is less than 10 for some women.

And about pushing before fully dialated---if mama is birthing without meds or epidural she will be able to push to the point of comfort, for as long as it is comfortable. Pain with pushing could mean that there is some cervix left.

If the baby comes out after pushing, you were dialated enough...


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## Shelsi (Apr 4, 2005)

I totally agree with the pp's.

I do think there are instances where the woman has the urge to push before she should but I think it's rare. I've seen it though with one of my friends. She's very into NCB and very researched so she's not just your typical sheeple in a hospital. The only reason she was even in a hospital is because she was a surrogate and the parents were extremely medically minded. She kept pushing during contractions when she was only like 4 cm. Now of course they had broken her water and she was stuck in bed (she was a VBAC and the docs came at her with something she hadn't read up on and being in full blown labor she didn't have the guns to fight them, it was a bad situation.) So anyways those might have been the reason. But she was def swelling/tearing her cervix.

This was her 3rd birth though and she said the pain of tearing her cervix was NOTHING like the pain of regular childbirth and she knew something was wrong. I think if you are following your instincts then everything is OK.


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## stacey2061 (Feb 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soybeansmama* 
I don't understand the 10 cm is fully dialated thing...not all women are the same size in other parts of their bodies, why do we have a one dialation fits all?



it probably goes along with women having 28 day cycles and ovulating on day 14...

now, i had a big-headed baby...do you think i could have made it to 11 or 12 cm?


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## eucalyptusleaves (Feb 5, 2007)

I had the urge to push with DD when my mw said I was at 8cm. It was very painful and I couldn't stop. My mw offered to help stretch my cervix, which my Dr advised was a really bad idea. Dr suggested I stop pushing (fat chance) and allow for full dilation. After a few more minutes of me still pushing, the Dr went in and stretched my cervix and DD was born shortly thereafter. I know that all sounds weird, but my whole birthing situation was weird. Bottom line, I definitely had to push before my cervix was fully dilated. I think it probably doesn't happen very often though.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eucalyptusleaves* 
was weird. Bottom line, I definitely had to push before my cervix was fully dilated. I think it probably doesn't happen very often though.

How do you know it would have been a problem?

-Angela


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
How do you know it would have been a problem?

-Angela


Quote:


Originally Posted by *eucalyptusleaves* 
I had the urge to push with DD when my mw said I was at 8cm. *It was very painful* and I couldn't stop.

There you go.


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## Media Mama (Mar 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eucalyptusleaves* 
It was very painful and I couldn't stop.

That's me too. With my first baby we stretched the cervix around her head and then I could cope. With my second baby they couldn't get it around his head, so I pushed him, and my cervix, out (he was 10 lbs). Both babies were born at home with excellent midwives, so it wasn't a measuring issue, it was a pain issue. But by far the worst part was when they told me not to push when my uterus was bearing down anyway. I had to deal with that for hours and hours while we waited for my cervix to dilate - which of course it never did. Honestly, it was excruciating.


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## attachedmamaof3 (Dec 2, 2006)

I was never checked either (hb's)...I guess I assumed I was fully dilated since I pushed when I felt the urge and the babies all came out with no 'help' from anyone (and I use the word help EXTREMELY loosely)....









Of course, I've always wondered why people assume that since you're 10 cm you're ready to push...I dunno sorry about that tangent.


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## lurve (May 5, 2006)

when i was 8 cm my midwife told me to push if i felt like it. i love my midwife!


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## attachedmamaof3 (Dec 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Media Mama* 
That's me too. With my first baby we stretched the cervix around her head and then I could cope. With my second baby they couldn't get it around his head, so I pushed him, and my cervix, out (he was 10 lbs). Both babies were born at home with excellent midwives, so it wasn't a measuring issue, it was a pain issue. But by far the worst part was when they told me not to push when my uterus was bearing down anyway. I had to deal with that for hours and hours while we waited for my cervix to dilate - which of course it never did. Honestly, it was excruciating.

I just need to say *HUGS* I cannot even imagine the feeling of my body pushing and someone telling me not to (near impossible in my mind)...I am sooooooo sorry. I really never even knew this happened..I thought you didn't get the urge to push until you were completely dilated.


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## Media Mama (Mar 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *attachedmamaof3* 
I just need to say *HUGS* I cannot even imagine the feeling of my body pushing and someone telling me not to (near impossible in my mind)...I am sooooooo sorry. I really never even knew this happened..I thought you didn't get the urge to push until you were completely dilated.

Thanks! I didn't know either! (Which is why I asked - to find out just how weird I am!







)


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## mwherbs (Oct 24, 2004)

since many people will hold back a lip- having a lip would not be fully dilated -- as far as dilation but not decent something unusual but I have had a client who's bow presented with baby very very high further up than -3 and mom be completely dilated no findable cervix-- still waiting for decent


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## Minerva (Jul 7, 2005)

I presume I was dilated enough, otherwise she couldn't have popped out so abruptly. I don't know how much since that would mean someone would be poking around to check (not that there was time for that, mind you, but I had on the birth plan something to the effect of 'no poking around').


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## AKmoose (Jul 25, 2003)

I think the "fully dilated" and "10 cm" thing has become this huge cultural hang-up, just like most of birth-related issues...I was telling somebody about not having a midwife at my birth, and all they could ask was, "how do you know you're at 10?" Um...nobody had to give me a number for my dd to come out


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## cottonwood (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Media Mama* 
But by far the worst part was when they told me not to push when my uterus was bearing down anyway. I had to deal with that for hours and hours while we waited for my cervix to dilate - which of course it never did. Honestly, it was excruciating.

I'm sorry, that must have been horrible.







I can't help but wonder, though, if your resistence and stress interfered with your cervix dilating?

The perception of urge-led pushing as something that can only be allowed to happen when the cervix is fully dilated is _invented._ There is no objective scientific basis for it. In fact, the uterus is always bearing down, throughout labor. The baby's head putting pressure on the cervix *is* what helps it to dilate. The body enlists the mother's voluntary help from the beginning, compelling her to move and vocalize in specific ways and to seek out support or retreat into privacy. By what logic do we assume that the body's messages are normal and right when it tell us these things, but not when it tells us to bear down?

I was bearing down three weeks before my baby was born. I assume there was a good reason my body wanted me to do this. Now mind, I wasn't trying to push the baby out. I was only bearing down as much as relieved the urge. There are different kinds of pushing. IMO, most birth attendants are so unused to seeing a truly normal second stage in the form of a fetal ejection reflex, that they have no basis for understanding the different kinds of pushing; to them, _all_ pushes are "pushing out the baby" pushes, so that when they see the mother bearing down before the body is capable of expelling the baby, they just assume it's the wrong thing to do.


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## allye (Dec 14, 2006)

I don't think mine was ever not fully dilated. I know with my first son I didn't start pushing until they told me to, I didn't have the urge to push,my second son I think I was about 7cm and I felt the urge to push and they told me not to push they said to stop and I had to which hurt like heck! my third son they pushed down on the area that they give you the episiotomy? because he wasn't coming down and he just shot out, my dd #`1 i felt the urge to push at 9 but they wouldn't let me (hospital births) until I reached to ten, with my latest birth they were putting in the epidural and I felt the urge, they said no you are only at 5, and I went from 5-10 within the time frame that they were putting in the epidural... oi


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## arwenevenstar (Mar 25, 2005)

I am under the impression that the bag of waters if it is bulging, or the baby having a slightly different presentation ie: hand above the head, can also cause for the urge to push?

It's a reflex, so of course you can't stop and it drives me potty when nurses say banal things like "you can't push yet, the doctor's not here", which is what happened to me when I had my dd in Belgium.....by the time she had left the room to go and fetch the doctor, my dd was happily in my arms!


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## grapejuicemama (Nov 18, 2005)

I pushed through a lip, which my mw held back. She gave me the option of her pushing it aside for the baby or waiting and I chose to go ahead and push. He was born in the caul. It was slightly more painful than my first birth, in which I was "fully dialated", but the relief of him coming out was so worth it. No tears.

I also never really got the urge to push with my second, though with my first, my body pushed without any help from me at all.


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## Media Mama (Mar 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fourlittlebirds* 
IMO, most birth attendants are so unused to seeing a truly normal second stage in the form of a fetal ejection reflex, that they have no basis for understanding the different kinds of pushing; to them, _all_ pushes are "pushing out the baby" pushes, so that when they see the mother bearing down before the body is capable of expelling the baby, they just assume it's the wrong thing to do.

That's really what's bothering me about the whole thing actually. My midwife is amazing - she's caught hundreds and hundreds of babies, she's very trusting of women's bodies, and really, she's my hero in so many ways...but she still told me not to push. There must be a good reason, right?


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## Daisie125 (Oct 26, 2005)

My MW would never tell me not to push. She doesn't feel women need to be messed with in active labor. I wasn't checked at all, I pushed when I felt like it. I assume if I was pushing for many hours and in many different positions she may have asked if she could check and see if there was something holding up the pushing process, but it would be my decision.


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## saraisabee (Aug 29, 2006)

Count me in as another who had an immense urge to push and had to hold back because there was still some cervical lip in the way. It cannot be overstated how difficult it is to fight your body's urge to push. At a certain point, my midwife was able to push the cervical lip past the head and then I could push freely.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

I pushed at 9 cms after holding back for a while and coudn't hold back anymore. I birthed a 9 lb, 10 oz baby that way. I was dilated to 10 when I birthed my first baby who was more than a pound smaller.


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## cottonwood (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Media Mama* 
That's really what's bothering me about the whole thing actually. My midwife is amazing - she's caught hundreds and hundreds of babies, she's very trusting of women's bodies, and really, she's my hero in so many ways...but she still told me not to push. There must be a good reason, right?

Well... nobody knows everything, I guess. My first midwife -- well respected in the homebirth midwifery community where I am and had attended over 1500 births, so plenty of experience -- had me start pushing as hard as I could right when I hit "10 cm". On my back.

Re: cervical lips and holding back pushing despite the strong urge to push, this thread is interesting and I found doctorjen's thoughts in post #10 especially so: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=302828


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## Media Mama (Mar 19, 2004)

That _is_ an interesting discussion. The first post sounds a lot like what I went through. My MW didn't check before I started to push with my first baby (she just said, go ahead and push when you feel like it), but then was forced to when hours and hours later there was still no baby and I had gone from soft, moany-noises to high-pitched screaming. When she did take a peek, she told me that I had been pushing on an undilated cervix and at that point it was "the size of a doughnut, but purple." Ultimately she did push the lip back and that made all the difference for me - it still took awhile for the baby to come (maybe an hour?) but it was immensely more managable (what I imagine it's "supposed" to feel like). The second time, she knew what to expect, and tried to help with the lip when things turned out exactly like the first time, but my son has such a large head (he was, after all, 10 lbs at birth), that she just couldn't get it to stick, so I pushed everything, even the cervix out. After that birth I really started to wonder if there aren't some wires crossed somewhere (in my head? in my pelvis?) that the urge to push comes on so strong (impossible to resist, really) so early. Sounds like from that other post that might be the case...

Also, I think any midwife would have to check if the mama was going through what I was - it was obvious that something wasn't right and even though she's very hands-off in her approach, I was clearly suffering in a way that wasn't productive. So, it's hard to say if someone's MW would _never_ check - if things sound, feel, look right, then no need, but when things just seem really wrong, then check it out - that's what they're there for, right?


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## Media Mama (Mar 19, 2004)

Found this other interesting discussion about it on Gentle Birth:
http://www.gentlebirth.org/archives/cervicalLips.html


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