# Teens in the front seat?



## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

DD1 (15) asked me today when she'll be big enough to ride in the front seat all the time. The kids do an awful lot of bickering about who sits where, and she thinks that if she can always sit up front, DD2 can always have the middle seat, and nobody fights over who has to sit in the 3rd row.

Right now, the rule is that they all need to sit in the middle or back seats of the minivan, unless the car is so full of passengers that they can't all fit- then one of the teenagers gets to sit in the front passenger seat. I don't intend to change that rule unless somebody can convince me the front seat is just as safe as the back- or until she gets her permit (in December) and I'm the one in the front passenger seat when she's driving.


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## moonlitemama (Oct 27, 2004)

I applaud you for sticking to the rule of the kids staying in the back seats!
However, at age 15, your daughter may be old enough to ride in the front seat. There is some research to show that the airbag may of benefit. http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/06/Autos/airbags/ My other thought is that if she is soon to get her permit, being up front may be a good learning opportunity - it's a better perspective than the back seat as to what the driver sees and may be a good way for you to point out and talk about driving behavior.
And, since she's close to being a driver, I thought I'd add this resource regarding teen drivers. Hope it's helpful. http://stokes.chop.edu/programs/youngdriver/about.php


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## FiveLittleMonkeys (Jan 21, 2009)

I also have a 15 year old daughter, and I allow her to sit in the front seat. We talk about driving situations, and I know that she is learning and absorbing all that comes into play.

Plus, she is taller than me, so I can't use the whole seatbelt doesn't fit you well excuse anymore!!


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

In Iowa you can get your permit at 14 so i would definitely be ok with a 15 year old sitting in front since my kid will be driving at 14.


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## hollytheteacher (Mar 10, 2007)

Considering a 15 year old can legally drive (with a parent in the car) YES she can sit in the front! LOL.

What age did you start sitting in the front?! I think I was..8?


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

I would be fine with a 15 yo in the front seat. It won't be long until she's driving herself around.


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## annekh23 (Nov 1, 2008)

I think the usual rule is 12 years old. Isn't the middle seat in the middle row the safest place for anyone, regardless of age? But I think the back row v. the passenger seat is a lot more debatable and comfort will start to come into it unless your 15yr old is small.

However, I think I would look at it from the perspective of a teenager in the front seat may actually benefit from looking at the road, I wouldn't insist they did it, just hope that they'd get it, unless they stick their noses in a book, they'll probably talk to you and notice how you switch between concentrating on road situations and conversation etc.

Now I've thought about it, I can see purposefully putting a teenager in the front, for this reason, even if sometimes it means displacing an adult. My oldest is a boy, I can now see dad and son in the front, with me and the girls in the back!


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## objet_trouve (Jan 30, 2010)

I started riding up front at about 10, I turned out fine. Riding up front was still pretty rare, growing up in a family of 8 kids, with my two oldest younger siblings kind of close to me in age, we had to take turns.

I would warn against being too sheltering with stuff like this. The teenage years are when you start becoming an adult, and they need to feel like it's ok, and like you actually want them to grow up. The last thing you want is to encourage rebellion (I did that. "I'll show you I'm an adult by doing adult things like drugs and promiscuity!" Didn't make much sense, but nothing else did when I was a teen, it was a confusing time) or ever-babies (some of my friends are like that. "the world is scary and big and I'm just going to live here forever").

So that's my advice. You have to take risks sometimes, and I think it would be good for psychological developement to start letting them have more and more freedoms, privileges and responsibilities.

I think you'll have to weigh the risks and benefits. Front seat safety vs. psychological development.

And everyone who said it helps teach how to drive, I totally agree. It's how I learned stick. When I first tried, I was terrified and had never seen someone drive stick. I learned a year later after watching my ex-fiance drive, took to it real quick!


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

I really don't think it's damaging her psychological development to sit in the back seat.

She can't get her permit here until she's 16. I know there was some discussion here about teens' spines fusing and how, even though some teens are bigger than some adults, the fact that they're still growing (or have JUST stopped growing) makes the front seat riskier for them than for an adult, even if the adult is smaller. There was something going on other than simply being big enough to fit in the seatbelt properly.

I know about the age 12 thing. That's the age I let kids sit up front when the car was full (prior to that, it was "sorry, I don't have room in the car for another young passenger.) But I'm still not convinced it's safe to let my 15yo sit up front full time, when the back seat is empty. I haven't yet heard from any of the "child passenger safety techs" that I know frequent this board.


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## BathrobeGoddess (Nov 19, 2001)

I would be interested in seeing any credible information about spinal differences in a teen and an adult.


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## MeepyCat (Oct 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 
I haven't yet heard from any of the "child passenger safety techs" that I know frequent this board.

Moonlitemama's sig says she's a car seat tech/instructor. Is there anyone in particular you're waiting for?

My feeling on teens in the front seat is that once they're over twelve and big enough, I'd rather they rode in front. I want them to have the good seat to observe driving from.


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...15/6/1579?etoc

"Children up to 14 years of age may be at risk for serious preventable injury when seated in front of a passenger air bag, and children 15 to 18 years of age seem to experience protective effects of air-bag presence and deployment. Age may be a better marker than height or weight for risk assessment regarding children and air bags."


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## Multimomma (Jan 25, 2008)

And her daughter's fifteen, so that works out well. Like someone suggested upthread, sitting in front really is beneficial for learning how to drive, because the physics of sitting the front is different than back. The turn radius feels different, and how you notice landmarks. Anecdata here, but I was never allowed to sit up front, and even at 19 yo, I had no idea how to drive to my own house when coming home from college with a friend.


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## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

It truly, honestly has never occurred to me to ban my teenagers from the front seat. I didn't realize that people did this. I don't know anyone IRL who does this.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

I'm wondering what the techs would do, too. But I really think at 15, months away from getting a drivers permit, the front seat, even all the time, would be okay. I guess I'm just not sure what difference less than a year makes? It's not like once she is driving/learning to drive she'll have to sit in the back whenever she's the passenger, right? Sure, the backseat is safer for everyone, but I don't know any adults who sit in the back for that reason (maybe to comfort a baby, or to offer the front to another adult).


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## blessedwithboys (Dec 8, 2004)

wow, i was pretty strict w/ds1. i put him back in a LBB a yr after taking it out fo the car bc i finally got internet and learned how unsafe he was. i made him use the new booster until he was 11. he was the only kids i knew in a booster, even my friends 6 and 7yo's werent in boosters.









when ds was 12 i allowed him to move up front. he is now 15y3m and has been learning how to drive since his 15th bday. he is also a full inch taller than i. i cant fathom forbidding fulltime front riding.

when i let him move up front on his 12th bday, i made him slide the seat all the way back from the airbag, and keep the back of the seat straight up so the belt fit him properly. i am the most safety conscious mom i know. ds2 is 7y8m and still in a booster while not another of his classmates uses one. still, i cant imagine keeping a 15yo in the back seat.

good on ya mama for doing what you feel is right to keep your dd safe. i think you can safely let her move up front now.


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## ananas (Jun 6, 2006)

She's 15 and still sitting in the back?

I think that's the oldest I've heard...

Anyway, it's definitely safe for her to be in the front sake. She'll be legally able to get her license in a year! I moved up front when I was around 10, most kids I know started sitting up front around the same age. At 15 isn't she about the size of most adults?


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Back seat is safer for everyone, regardless of age and size, but with that in mind (I sit in the front seat when my husband drives even though I know back is safest), I'd have no problem with a 15yo in the front seat providing the belts fit correctly.


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## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LavenderMae* 
http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...15/6/1579?etoc

"Children up to 14 years of age may be at risk for serious preventable injury when seated in front of a passenger air bag, and children 15 to 18 years of age seem to experience protective effects of air-bag presence and deployment. Age may be a better marker than height or weight for risk assessment regarding children and air bags."

This is the only research that I know of showing any extra benefit to putting a teen in the backseat. Most other resources suggest there is no difference between an adult and a teen. (Acknowledging that the backseat is always for everyone, adults included.)


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## bobandjess99 (Aug 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 
. I don't intend to change that rule unless somebody can convince me the front seat is just as safe as the back- .

Ok, this will simply never be true.
The back is ALWAYS safer.

However, I think there comes a time when the difference in safety is small enough for it not to really matter.

Once you are of an adult size, the front seat stays the same amount of "safe" forever...and it is always less safe than the back seat. So at this point, she is *as safe* in the front seat as she will ever be, so really...??..it's your call. Waiting a few more years wont make her safer. As long as she is 5 foot + and 100+ lbs or so, and over 13ish, she isn't going to get any safer just by getting older. At that point, it no longer has anything to do with bone structure or size, etc, and just everything to do with being that much closer to the point of a frontal impact.
As a general rule, if we were concerned about safety alone, we would always make any passengers in our vehicles, adult or otherwise, ride in the backseat if and when there was seating available. It's safer. Even just 2 adults driving alone should have the non-driving adult sit in the back, if safety were the most important issue. However, pretty much no one ever does this.

I will say that I personally am okay with my adult-sized teens riding in the front of my car when necesary.
Is it the "safest possible" position?...no. But we make decisions all teh time to not do what is teh absolutel safest, and instead to go with a reasonable, prudent amount of safety. It could be argued simply leaving the house at all is too dangerous, if you want to go that route, lol. I could, technically, import a swedish seat to keep my 45 lb 5 year old rearfacing. But at her age and size, she is safe "enough" forward facing. And a 15 yo adult sized teen is, by most anyones standard, safe "enough" to sit in the front.


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## annekh23 (Nov 1, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 
But I'm still not convinced it's safe to let my 15yo sit up front full time, when the back seat is empty. I haven't yet heard from any of the "child passenger safety techs" that I know frequent this board.

She'll be an awful lot safer in the front with you driving than she will be driving herself, so once she's driving she'll be in the front, with the steering wheel (which is the cause of some injuries) and she'll be driving, which even with major limitations is still less safe.

I'm not dismissing your concerns, just suggesting that if you do conclude you still want her in the back, then are you going to let her drive at 16? US driving age is one of the most liberal in the world, UK is 17, culture of high schoolers driving is massively less than here as the test is much harder to pass too. My dad insisted that we both learn to drive at 17, regardless of our desire, I think he was rather strong willed on that, I'd have rather waited until a summer holiday, even if it was the first one after I was 17, which is what my mum did, learning the summer she was 19. Girls are statistically safer than boys too. My DS is only 6.5, but if we still live in the US, I'm already thinking about how we'll delay him learning to drive, or at least restrict it well beyond the law. I hadn't thought about the physical safety of the front seat, but he's a small kid and male puberty is later than females, so I'll have to put some thought into that, thankfully I've got plenty of time.


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LavenderMae* 
http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...15/6/1579?etoc

"Children up to 14 years of age may be at risk for serious preventable injury when seated in front of a passenger air bag, and children 15 to 18 years of age seem to experience protective effects of air-bag presence and deployment. Age may be a better marker than height or weight for risk assessment regarding children and air bags."

Well... first off, the researchers themselves admit that their findings weren't statistically significant. Secondly, it looks like the researchers lumped all 0-14 year olds together, and then lumped all 15-18 year olds together. When you look at all 0-14 year olds as a group, _of course_ they're more likely to be injured by an airbag, *as a group*. Most of the kids in that group will be young - under 9, assuming an even distribution. Yes, airbags are dangerous to small children, but that doesn't at all address the question of teens and preteens.

I'd like to see a comparison of the injury stats by age - 12 vs 13 vs 14 vs 15 and so on.

My kid was in the front well before she turned 12, because we didn't have a passenger-side airbag. Actually, we got a car with one when she was 11, and she stayed in the front (she was taller than the average adult woman by then).

I guess I don't think physical safety is the only thing that matters - I mean, the back seat is safer for everyone, but I don't sit back there when my dad and I go somewhere. I sit next to him because we can talk much more easily... and especially with teens and preteens, I'm much more concerned about having opportunities to talk in a low stress environment (we always seemed to have good talks on long trips) than I am about the very, very tiny chance that being in front might lead to more serious injury in case of a crash.

YMMV....


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## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dar* 

I sit next to him because we can talk much more easily... and especially with teens and preteens, I'm much more concerned about having opportunities to talk in a low stress environment (we always seemed to have good talks on long trips) than I am about the very, very tiny chance that being in front might lead to more serious injury in case of a crash.

I am having the same experience with my child! My pre-teen is often in the front seat these days.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Thanks for all the input guys. It wasn't a matter of "banning" her from the front seat, so much as getting in the habit of having all the kids sit in the back and never changing the habit.

If I'm going to wait until she's over 5' tall to ride in the front seat, then she'll probably never be big enough to ride.







If we're waiting for 100 lbs, then both of my daughters are big enough. My 15yo is about 4' 11" asnd 120 lbs, and my 13yo is about 4' 9" and 110 lbs.


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

I think the fact a girl that used to be in our home school group died in a car crash two years ago and was sitting in the front seat at the time (and her brother that survived was in the back seat) really plays into my decision making with this. My almost 13 yr. old daughter sits in the back and will until she's at least 14, I think. She is about 5' 3" but not 100 lbs yet. And yes I am the only one who won't let my child this age ride in front but I'm also the only one who still has a 3 yr. old rear-facing, I'm okay with being the only one doing this and it's by far not the only 'different' parenting decision I've made (or will make).








And I would also love to see more research done on this so that we can all make a more informed (and the safest) decision when it comes to when to let our kids sit in the front seat.


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## Tofu the Geek (Dec 2, 2003)

I don't thing this is strange like a lot of folks on this thread do. DD is 12.75 years and she's never sat in the front and isn't likely to anytime soon. She's also has never asked though, she just automatically gets into the back seat. Here, she can get her learner's permit at 15, licence at 16. So, likely at age 14 I'll have her travel in the front on occasion to get perspective from the front seat so she's not completely unaware of what happens up front when she gets her learner's. But, it's doubtful she'll ever sit up front full-time since we are almost always all together in the vehicle so I'm usually the front passenger while DH drives.

Now, I think Ruthla does have a valid concern, especially considering her DD's height. Front seats often don't fit smaller people as well as back seats do. If Ruthla's vehicle doesn't have adjustable height seats or shoulder height adjustable belts, it's possible that the seat belt won't actually fit her DD properly. Small adults or driving teens in this situation would need to investigate ways to have adjustments made so that they can safely travel in their vehicle, while with a non-driving teen, it's possible to wait awhile to ride in the front as it's likely they will be growing some more.

Now, if her front seats and seat belts have enough adjustments so that her DD can sit properly in the front, she may want to have her up front on occasion to get the front seat perspective since she is able to get her driver's permit soon. But, I also think it's fine that she sits in the back at times too. If Ruthla were a two parent family, nobody would think it was strange for her 15 year old to be sitting in the back because lots of the time both parents would be in the front seats.


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## crunchymomofmany (May 24, 2007)

Ruthla...Let me say that I do allow my teens to sit up front but often seat them in the back to help out with little ones. While I agree the back seat is safest for most people, I had a bad accident once where my daughter (she was then 9) and I were plowed into (it was a Jeep Cherokee and we were hit driver side behind the back door). She was in the back on the other side, but if she had been on that side - God knows. So...what's my point? Cars are dangerous! There is always a risk of injury. My other point? You're the mom. If you feel safer with the kids in the back...then that's where they go. It's your car, your kid and you pay the insurance bills!

My kids aren't driving til they're 18!


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

It never occurred to me to insist that my teens sit in the back seat. DD is 13 y.o., and she is taller than I am and she weighs about 110 lbs. DS is 16 y.o., about 6 ft. tall, and he's been taller than me since he was 12, I think. He'll be graduating high school next year, and off to travel and then uni.

I'd rather that he learn how to drive while he still lives at home and we can influence his learning. Relegating him to the back seat isn't going to help him learn the driving skills he needs.

I suppose if the teen is very, very tiny, or there are other safety issues (developmentally delayed or emotionally unstable and thus likely to distract or interfere with the driver), there might be a good reason for a 15 y.o. to have to sit in the back seat.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dar* 
I guess I don't think physical safety is the only thing that matters - I mean, the back seat is safer for everyone, but I don't sit back there when my dad and I go somewhere*. I sit next to him because we can talk much more easily... and especially with teens and preteens, I'm much more concerned about having opportunities to talk* in a low stress environment (we always seemed to have good talks on long trips) than I am about the very, very tiny chance that being in front might lead to more serious injury in case of a crash.

This. I let my then 12 year old DD move to the front seat when she was still homeschooling but her sister no longer was. We spent a lot of time in the car *just the two of us* and it was just better that way.

As far as safety goes, we'd all be safer if we never left our houses. The tiny, tiny edge that makes the back seat safer for full grown people (whether they are 13 or 30) in the unlikely event of a crash isn't the way to decide where to sit.


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## Kelly1101 (Oct 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchymomofmany* 
I had a bad accident once where my daughter (she was then 9) and I were plowed into (it was a Jeep Cherokee and we were hit driver side behind the back door). She was in the back on the other side, but if she had been on that side - God knows. So...what's my point? Cars are dangerous! There is always a risk of injury. My other point? You're the mom. If you feel safer with the kids in the back...then that's where they go. It's your car, your kid and you pay the insurance bills!

This, totally and emphatically, on both points.


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## objet_trouve (Jan 30, 2010)

"I really don't think it's damaging her psychological development to sit in the back seat."

You misunderstand. I wasn't saying "do everything right but the front seat issue is the deal breaker", I was saying it's one way you can show the child they are growing up. An uncertain number of freedoms and restrictions are what it takes for healthy development. You'll have to let go of some things and not others. This could go either way, just seems like an obvious thing to let go of, TO ME, as I don't see enough evidence to support this causing significant harm.

All I was saying is that being too protective can cause problems. There are other ways you can show your child they are becoming an adult. Stuff like later curfews, less chaperoning, getting a job, etc can also help with this. I was just saying it can make a teen feel like you think they are a child, which CAN cause problems. It would have for me (in my own story though, it was a host of other things that screwed me up, like ridiculous expectations, and religious conflict). Above all, communication should be the big factor in deciding whether this could cause psychological problems.

Hope I was more clear this time.


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## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

I applaud you









I think it varies by situation and size of the teen.

I have been the same size, height and weight wise since I was in the 7th grade. That's 12yo.. where many parents still have kids in boosters. FWIW I'm 5'5" and ~120lbs.


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## JessicaS (Nov 18, 2001)

I am 5'3"

I think a lot of fifteen year olds are taller than me.









You are the mom and it is your decision but I do think fifteen year olds could sit up front.


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## Equuskia (Dec 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LavenderMae* 
I think the fact a girl that used to be in our home school group died in a car crash two years ago and was sitting in the front seat at the time (and her brother that survived was in the back seat) really plays into my decision making with this. My almost 13 yr. old daughter sits in the back and will until she's at least 14, I think. She is about 5' 3" but not 100 lbs yet. And yes I am the only one who won't let my child this age ride in front but I'm also the only one who still has a 3 yr. old rear-facing, I'm okay with being the only one doing this and it's by far not the only 'different' parenting decision I've made (or will make).








And I would also love to see more research done on this so that we can all make a more informed (and the safest) decision when it comes to when to let our kids sit in the front seat.

Last month, a father with his three pre-teens in the backseat, buckled in according to the police report, was plowed head on by a Mustang going over 85 mph. Somehow, the father survived, but all the children died. As another pp said, leaving the house has risks.

As for the seatbelt, I'm short, so I have to twist it 3 times before buckling it so it goes across my chest and doesn't choke me.


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

Yes, people die in crashes when they are sitting in the back seat, there are no absolutes but it is almost always safer to be in the back seat.
It's not about size or weight but bone structure which is still changing in the pre-teen /early teen years, that's why it might not be safe for children under 14 to ride upfront.
I think it's really dismissive and patronizing to keep saying it dangerous to leave your home (it's dangerous in the home too for that matter) because some of us want to know when it's the safest for kids to ride up front.
I don't think of where kids sit in the car or when a child gets turned front facing, or moves into a booster etc as milestones so maybe that's where I differ from some.
Cars are one of the most dangerous things most of us will be in and in often. It's not extreme or phobic to want to do so in the safest manner possible.


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