# my beautiful long haired...son?



## hazeldust (Mar 9, 2002)

for some reason or another we have never cut our sons hair. he is four now and his hair is straight and blonde. i often ask him if he likes long hair, or if he would prefer short hair like his daddy and he always says he likes his long hair and does not want it cut. i am constantly amazed by not only children thinking he is a girl but also adults. whats more is the way children and adults alike act incredulous when we politely correct them. they honestly have a hard time believing us! our son is solidly built and doesnt usually wear clothes that would be considered "girly" and of course to me
his personality is wonderfully balanced. i just get so so pissed when people think we are lying. why would we? i guess we know that long haired little boys are not the norm in this backwater town


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## mama_kass (Jan 11, 2003)

Natalie Merchant rocks!

I always let my ds wear his hear however he wants at age 3-4 he had a mullet.







Trust me this was not my idea but, it was cute. Now at 7 he likes his hair super short because it keeps him cool and we don't have to fuss with it much.

I'm sorry people don't understand your ds hair. Let him choose and just let people's comments roll off your back. Seeing a little boy with long hair would not bother me.


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## DalaiMama (Oct 12, 2002)

We have the same problem here! Our son is 16 months old and has always had a headful of sandy colored hair. Especially in recent weeks, we've been getting a lot of "Oh, your little girl is so pretty," or, "she's so cute!" I just brush it off with, "Yes, he's a handsome guy," or sometimes if I don't want to deal with it, "Thank you."







Sometimes when I point out that my child is in fact, a boy, I get "He needs a haircut." So, I don't have any advice, but we can [email protected]

rachel & mylo


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## joesmom (Nov 19, 2001)

i know how you feel. joe is four too & his hair is straight, light brown, about to his shoulders. he does NOT want it cut, i have been trimming his bangs myself. many times i hear, she is so cute, i'm like, he's a BOY! he wears very boyish clothes, i don't get people! good for you for letting your son choose.


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

Y'know, it is just really hard sometimes to tell what gender a child is.

We always got people thinking DD was a boy, even sometimes when she was wearing pink! I don't take it personally, I've never minded, and if people apologize I just say "oh don't be silly! it's hard to tell at this age!".

I have made the same mistake myself. I think it's great that you are letting your son wear his hair the way he wants. I think if you don't react negatively to others mistaking him for a girl, it shouldn't matter to him, either.


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## geekmom (Jan 12, 2002)

I have a 2 year old boy with long, blond hair. His birth parents have asked that I don't cut it because they think it will curl (it hasn't). I will be able to adopt him and will get to make my own choice at some point. It's hard, though, because I love the long hair on him and he is (no bias involved.







) GORGEOUS! He's just such a beautiful little person. Everyone ALWAYS thinks he's a girl.

The problem is that I have all boys and some people think that I have his hair long because I want a girl. If I want to adopt a girl next I will. I love my boys and, at this point, have no major interest in a girl. I just love the long hair. I've known other little boys with long hair and they just look gorgeous. As soon as he can choose it'll be up to him, but I've got awhile before that happens. I wish I knew what to do. When people say "she's beautiful" or whatever i sometimes nod or say, yes he is or whatever. I don't mind him being mistaken for a girl because I think so much subtle gender stereotyping goes on for little kids I don't mind if he gets girl messages as well as boy ones. I just wish people didn't think I was trying to make him something he's not


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## hahamommy (Dec 18, 2001)

My son Hayden (soon 5) decided at Christmas time not to have anymore haircuts. It's just past his neck in the back and down to his cheeks in the front. It's really no big deal for us, it looks good and it is *HIS* hair after all







I too am amazed at people's reactions to him ~ people I hold near and dear feel compelled to make comment about his hair (for goodness sakes, it's HAIR people!!). Last week, a 6-7 year old boy came up to me at the park to tell me, "He thinks he's a boy" *DUUUH* "That's because he *IS* a boy!" "No he's not" ~ what do I gotta do, show off his penis?? You're gonna argue with his mommy?? Hayden got sick of dealing with it and played away from the kids for a while, til they *got over it* ~ luckily they did ~ now if they could convince some grownups...

~diana


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

People often comment on my beautiful long-haired son; the only thing is, I have a girl! People think she's a boy because of her clothes, and then they just assume we are some kind of freaks for not cutting "his" hair.







:


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## sillypants (May 16, 2003)

I never, ever, EVER assume gender of a child. My daughter had peachfuzz for hair until she was 2+ and no matter what ridiculous pink getup dress she'd be in people would STILL say " How old's your little boy?"









I always ask how old is your baby/ child?


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## CerridwenLorelei (Aug 28, 2002)

our youngest ds says he wants to keep his hair long
its down on his shoulders
and he has LONG eyelashes like his daddy so everyone thinks he is a girl
and oh boy the looks we get in this good ol boy town !


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## vein (Mar 7, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by sillypants_
*I never, ever, EVER assume gender of a child. My daughter had peachfuzz for hair until she was 2+ and no matter what ridiculous pink getup dress she'd be in people would STILL say " How old's your little boy?"








*
Hahaha sounds like me when I was little. I had (according to my parents and the pictures) pretty much no hair until almost 3. They were continually annoyed by people insisting I was a boy. My mother said she was always told to put those (IMO) stupid looking baby headbands on to "show" that I was a girl and she would always just ask why she should have to prove that I was a girl.

Gavin now has barely any hair as well. My SO (who had a ton of hair when he was born and is now loosing it at 33) always says the longer it takes to grow in, the longer he'll have it.









So far, the only comment we've gotten about his cute little head was some moron in the grocery store who asked him where all of his hair was. Yeah, moron, I cut it all off.







:


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## Nikki Christina (Mar 27, 2003)

pass some of that beautifull long hair this way..lol My daughter is 2 & just barely has any hair

i had a rule in HS to only date guys with long hair..









Dh was long untill he cut it 2 years ago... it was time for change..

I bet all your boys are too cute


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## merpk (Dec 19, 2001)

We don't cut our boys' hair until their third birthday for religious reasons, and that has some folks all worked up.







:

Though many folks in our religious path put barettes in their little boys' hair ... that we didn't do. But his hair grew so slowly that by the time we cut it (at a special party, where everyone cuts a little bit off and gives him blessings and tells stories ... and boy did he love it ...) it was really just at that annoying length where it's in his face, not long enough to be called "long."

Looking forward to DS#2's hair growing in curlier and longer, though ...


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## carmen veranda (Jan 27, 2003)

One of my girls was a baldy until she was quite old too. My mom sent this get up for pictures for her. It was as pink and frilly and silly with ruffly tights and headband and the THE WORKS. We were standing in line at Wal-Mart and some dough-head asks why we have our "little guy dressed so silly." I told him "SHE is getting her picture taken, today." He replied, "Well he looks like a sissy boy dressed so silly. Why don't you buy him some overall's for goodness sake?" Honestly. "Ok. I will."







:


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## Ravin (Mar 19, 2002)

I'm not going to cut my childrens' hair until they're old enough to want it cut, regardless of gender. I decided not to find out if it's a boy or a girl until birth to keep people from buying boy/girl baby clothes for me.

I cut my hair short in high school, and between that and my leather biker jacket I was always getting mistaken for a boy, but it didn't bother me too much. I enjoyed being "butch". It was a lot better than the perms and sunday dresses my mother forced on me when I was a little girl and would have preferred to just be a tomboy. I intend to let my kids be who they want to be, whether they're four or fourteen.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

I had buzz cuts until I was 10 years old. My sister, OTOH, started getting perms when she was 6.


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

I could have written this post! DS is 2 1/2 and has a beautiful head of long blond hair. We keep the bangs trimmed just above his eyes, and I occasionally trim around the other parts if he allows it, but I decidedly keep it long because frankly, it works for him. He's adorable!

People who don't know him always mistake him for a girl (ok, last week he had me paint his toenails which didn't help). It does grate sometimes. In many ways, he's the stereotypical "boy" so it always cracks me up when we're hanging out around the construction site watching the backhoes dig, and playing the air drums and guitar (yes, he's bangs his head quite nicely thankyou) and people still come up to us and tell me what a cute little girl I have. HUH?









If and when DS wants his hair cut it will be up to him. Period. Admittedly, it pains me to think of him wanting to cut that beautiful hair short, nonetheless, I will support it.


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## EmeraldStar8 (Nov 12, 2002)

my son has extremely curly hair we have a near afro going on







: we have had right from when he was a wee thing was a beautiful girl you have there and stuff like that. he's now 23 mths old and still got that head of hair, he hasn't had a haircut yet.


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## alexa07 (Mar 27, 2003)

Look, people are going to make gender assumptions. Its fine to go against those assumptions but don't get mad at people for doing this. As you point out, small kids do it. We are programmed to use visual cues to determine gender from an early age. A simple "Actually, he's a boy, he just loves his hair long" will probobly stop most comments.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Here, too









At 2.5, ds has the most gorgeous (yes, no bias here, either







) golden curls. I've never cut it and won't until it becomes necessary (if tangles start to become unmanageable) or he makes the decision to cut it. It took forever for him to get hair - I'm in no hurry to get rid of it! He also has huge blue eyes and very long lashes, so people often assume he's a girl. It's unfathomable to me that anyone could make that mistake, but, I just remind myself that they don't know him as I do and that there's nothing insulting about such an assumption anyway (because being a girl is pretty darned cool).

He cracks me up sometimes, though, because he'll look in the mirror, brush his hair down over his forehead and yell, "I'm a GIRL!", then brush it back away from his face and yell, "I'm a BOY!" Don't know where he got that... funny kid


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## Corvus (Feb 13, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by ophelia_tigerlily_
*i am constantly amazed by not only children thinking he is a girl but also adults.*
No offense, but why does this amaze you? Babies and small children don't usually "look" like any specific gender. So if your son has long hair, it shouldn't surprise you that people think he's a girl. In the U.S., it's not the social norm for boys to have long hair. So it's an understandable assumption on their part.


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## hydrangea (Jun 5, 2002)

I have to say that I don't really get why some of you are upset about this.

Most boys and men have short hair. Young children do not facial hair, breasts, low voices, or other distinctions that tell us what sex they are. A lot of children dress in a genderless sort of way (eg. one of my two daughters is wearing blue shorts and a red t-shirt right now). Why should people be expected to know that a child with long hair is a boy?

My daughters like looking at construction sites and one of them plays air guitar. Why should I look at someone doing this and assume they're a boy?

Of course, if you tell them your child is a boy, and they still insist or make comments, that is entirely obnoxious. I've been through this with my daughters when they were babies, and I know how annoying it is.

But please, if someone makes the wrong assumption in the beginning, don't get upset. Just gently correct it.

FWIW, I like long hair on boys. But I do occasionally assume a child is a girl and later find out it's a boy. And I have had the opposite on rare occasions, with little girls with very short hair and genderless clothes.


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## MaryBethMoore (Sep 9, 2002)

My sons all have curly hair and are often mistaken for girls. (Dh is African-American). Paul didn't get his hair cut until he was 5 (his choice). Harry gets occasional trims but his is still longish.

The funny thing is we had a little boy with long hair visiting and my dh thought he was a girl!

Mary Beth of Paul(7), Harry(5), and Timmy (nearly 2)


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## simonee (Nov 21, 2001)

It IS annoying, I agree. My dd had no hair till she was two, and people were so insistent on their prejudices that sometimes they'd comment how interesting it was that even little boys would wear pink flowered dresses














:

Let him be, let him love his hair, love his hair... people that can't accept a child as he is don't deserve wasting energy on.










(ps Piglet check my 3-day old or so "prettiest mama" thread in tao ~ starring you







)


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## Shenjall (Sep 14, 2002)

It doesnt upset me when people assume my son is a girl. (Hes three and has lovely long curls) what does upset me is when they freak out on me that I havent cut his hair. Its really none of their business if I cut my dd hair and not my ds. KWIM? Sometimes I think they are just ambarrassed and transferring their anger onto me.
Oh well, glad to join the long-haired boys mama club!


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

This is one of those ridiculous gender stereotypes that it's time to say good-bye to. There is absolutely no reason a boy should have to cut his hair short. I don't have a boy yet, but if I do, I won't treat him any differently from my girl. I won't dress him differently, and I won't cut his hair unless he asks me to. If someone tells me he needs a hair cut, my response will be "We don't believe in treating boys and girls differently." This is what I've been telling people who want my daughter to wear pink frilly dresses. I warn them not to give my daughter any clothes that they don't want to see my son wearing some day. Both my daughter and my son will have both toy cars and dolls.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:

what do I gotta do, show off his penis??
Had to LOL at that one. Was on a preschool fieldtrip w/DD and changed DS's diaper in front of the kids. One of her friends (4 at the time) said, "look, that girl has a penis." I was like, "no, hes a boy." He refused to believe me because of the hair and the funniest thing of all--- he himself had long hair until after he was 2!

I don't get annoyed w/people calling DS a girl, I get annoyed with:
--he should get a haircut
--"she" thinks hes a boy comments
--adults correcting my 4.5 year old dd that she "means sister." uhhh, no she doesnt
--etc...

DD chose to get a hair cut at 2.75 and at 4.25 she got it cut short. We'll see how long DS keeps his hair. I give people extra slack if he has his nails polished and hair clips in







He loves being like sissy.

Kay


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## chumani (Apr 12, 2002)

My son Noah has hair half-way down his back. His hair has grown faster and longer than either of his sisters. My baby Jonah seems to be following in his "hair"steps as he has as much hair at 14 mos as my girls did at 2! My dh has had long hair all his life as part of his culture. We discovered that if we didn't correct people Noah felt we were ashamed/or embarrassed by his long hair. We now make sure children and adults know he is a boy. When explaining to other children we tell them that they have short hair like their dads and Noah has long hair like his dad.

He did come up with a come-back all his own though. One Sunday when he was about 4 in his class one of the boys told him he had hair like a girl and Noah said "I have long hair like Jesus" the following Sunday I had every mom of a boy in his class telling me that their sons wanted long hair now









I really hope that he doesn't ever want to cut his hair (ditto with all my kids!) I love my long haired children









Sarah


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## Missy (Oct 22, 2002)

My three-year-old has black curls down to his shoulder, long black eyelashes, and huge black eyes (dh is black) and people always assume he's a girl. We just laugh. He doesn't want his hair cut and it doesn't bother us. My parents shrug it off, but dh's parents think he's going to be confused. A few weeks ago, while ds was barreling full speed in fil's belly, I got another lecture on how he needs to get his hair cut because he needs to be treated like a boy







: I told him I really didn't think that ds had any gender issues. My fil said I was deliberately missing the point.









We had his hair trimmed (less than half an inch) about a year and a half ago and the woman who cut it cried the entire time, moaning with each snip. So that was it. We decided short hair wasn't all that important in the great scheme of things. I mean, we traumatized the hairdresser.

Missy


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## Dakota's Mom (Apr 8, 2003)

My second son had long red curls and very long eyelashes. His eyes were so dark you could not see the pupils in them. Everyone always said "She's so beautiful" I would just answer "Yes, he is". My daughter on the other hand was a baldy until she was about 2. Even with pink ruffles and ribbons taped to her head people though she was a boy. My little guy has long dark curls, long eyelashes, and dark, dark eyes. He looks like a boy. His very first picture looked like a little boy. But people are always telling me how cute she is. I usually just respond with "Yes HE is" Then they ask his name. When I say Dakota they always say "I thought yu said it was a boy." Apparently no one ever heard of a boy named Dakota. One guy told me that ever kid he ever met named Dakota was a girl. I told him that every kid I ever met named Dakota was a boy.

I don't let the comments bother me. I've learned to come up with smart responses to it. I also have to deal with, "Are you having fun out shopping with granny today." I look around quickly and say, "Oh, is his grandmother here, I haven't seen her in a while." That usually shuts them up. (I'm 53 and my son is 12 months.)

As far as the hair, my hair is below my waist, DH's is almost to his waist. We're not cuttin DS's hair unless he requests it. No matter what grandma says.

Kathi


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## sadie_sabot (Dec 17, 2002)

huh.

My dd s still pretty young, and she gets called "he" a lot, i guess because of her clothes? ayway, in utero, her nickname ws floyd, for reasons I won't go into. so when people say, Oh, what a cutie, what's his name? i just say 'floyd" and try to remember to use the "he" pronoun.

I dunno why people get so freaked out when kids don't match their gender stereotypes. maybe it's some sort of homophobia?


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## Shann (Dec 19, 2003)

Both of my sons (ages 5 and 7 have long hair and always have ! Neither one wants to get theirs cut (although I do VERY slight trims every few months). I wouldn't THINK of traumatizing either of my boys by getting their hair cut ! They would have a FIT ! They both have hair to their shoulders and both wear long bangs. Yes, I have had comments from people, but I just comment right back and don't let it bother me at all. I guess I can mildly understand the confusion some people have in my kids' case, because both my boys also have pierced ears (their choice...but one I wholeheartedly support) and the oldest one occasionally likes to paint his fingernails (which I am also ok with). But I still think it's ridiculous for people to stereotype due to gender roles. My boys have purposely blurred the "typical" gender lines when it comes to hair, earrings and fingernail polish, but have still managed to be, act, and otherwise dress very masculine. I don't think either one will ever agree to have his hair short (at least I hope not...I would be destroyed if they did !! YIKES !) Ignore the comments from people and KEEP THE LONG HAIR ON YOUR BOYS ! It's SOOOOO much cuter than short hair !!


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## Shann (Dec 19, 2003)

I also enjoy putting my boys' hair up in ponytails (sometimes in the back, but more often in double ones on each side of their heads). This works even better cause it shows off their earrings. Do they look girly? Not to me, but in either case, I dont really care....and they dont either. They LOVE their long hair and enjoy whatever I do to it. Theyboth have shoulder length hair and I dont intend to cut more then a couple millimeters off in trim just to keep it from getting frizzy.

---------------------------------------------------------
Shann...mom to Tristan (age 5 ) and Jevan (age 7)...never married, but currently with live-in (and sleep with) BF


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## Dakota's Mom (Apr 8, 2003)

I just returned from a day of holiday celebrations with my inlaws. They must have threatened at least 5 times that the next time they are alone with ds they will take him tothe barber. I made it clear that they would never see him again if they did. I don't think they would cut his hair behind our backs, but I am so tired of the threats. They're just trying to convince us to cut it. But that ain't happening any time soon. Why dont they just leave us alone.

Kathi


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## Shann (Dec 19, 2003)

Good for you ! Stand your ground on this ! Luckily, I dont have any family members who dislike my boys' long hair...for me its just strangers that give me problems. But I would stay firm on the hair thing with the IL's...if they happen to cut his hair against your wishes, then it would be BYE BYE for them !


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

I would want to tell them that if they did that then I would shave THEIR heads in their sleep! They have NO right to cut another person's hair without permission.


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## mountain (Dec 12, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by hydrangea_
*I have to say that I don't really get why some of you are upset about this.
Why should people be expected to know that a child with long hair is a boy?
But please, if someone makes the wrong assumption in the beginning, don't get upset. Just gently correct it.

*
I just gotta say, this is it! Why should anyone assume anything??? That's the real mistake here...I feel like this society is so gender coded--oh, you're a girl, so you're this way--oh, you're a boy, so you're this way. Assumptions are such bullshit.

I wish we could approach a child with an open and unassuming attitude--act like they're humans. My son had long curls until he was 4 1/2...I used to laugh at the people who would come up, "Ooooooohhhhh, such a pretty little girl"...if you'd tell em your son was a boy, it would suddenly change to "hey, buddy, you like trucks" macho kind of thing--like girls are good to look at, but boys actually DO things? There's something wrong if people just gotta find out what gender you are to figure out how to talk to you.

I'm way through being upset, but I think it would be a great gift of human courtesy if we were to simply say 'hi' to the smaller person, or "wow, what a great little person, what's your name...what do you like to do"...instead of pegging them into a comfortable category that limits them...that's my .02


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by mountain_
*I just gotta say, this is it! Why should anyone assume anything??? That's the real mistake here...I feel like this society is so gender coded--oh, you're a girl, so you're this way--oh, you're a boy, so you're this way. Assumptions are such bullshit.

I wish we could approach a child with an open and unassuming attitude--act like they're humans. My son had long curls until he was 4 1/2...I used to laugh at the people who would come up, "Ooooooohhhhh, such a pretty little girl"...if you'd tell em your son was a boy, it would suddenly change to "hey, buddy, you like trucks" macho kind of thing--like girls are good to look at, but boys actually DO things? There's something wrong if people just gotta find out what gender you are to figure out how to talk to you.

I'm way through being upset, but I think it would be a great gift of human courtesy if we were to simply say 'hi' to the smaller person, or "wow, what a great little person, what's your name...what do you like to do"...instead of pegging them into a comfortable category that limits them...that's my .02*


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## BunnysMomma (Dec 27, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by mountain_
*I just gotta say, this is it! Why should anyone assume anything??? That's the real mistake here...I feel like this society is so gender coded--oh, you're a girl, so you're this way--oh, you're a boy, so you're this way. Assumptions are such bullshit.
*
I'm not sure whether you are referring only to gender assumptions or to assumptions in general, but I wanted to add that human brains are structured to be discriminating, not encompassing. If you look at the way babies and children learn, you'll see that when a small child learns the word dog, he then applies the word dog to any four-legged non-human being. As he grows in awareness and vocabulary, he learns that the dog with lots of hair on its neck is a lion (or a horse) and that the dog with whiskers is a cat. Human brains categorize and subdivide because that's how they work. It's nice to say that people should make no assumptions about others and should be open to the infinite possiblities of each and every person they meet, but from a sensory angle, that's impossible. Yes, we should be aware of what we say to one another so as not to offend, but to expect people not to rely on their innate physiological functioning is unrealistic.

Wilma


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## Dakota's Mom (Apr 8, 2003)

HELP!!!!

Ater listening to the inlaws whine abut getting ds's hair cut all day Thursday, now dh is starting to say maybe we should cut it too. He just wants to cut the front to keep it out of his eyes. But I don't want to cut his hair at all. If we start cutting bangs it will never end. Does anyone have any suggestions for how to keep his hair out of his eyes. It's not long enough to pull back behind his ears. I've tried mousse but he broke out in a rash from it. I really don't want to cut his beautiful hair.

Kathi


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by BunnysMomma_
*Yes, we should be aware of what we say to one another so as not to offend, but to expect people not to rely on their innate physiological functioning is unrealistic.*
I don't think it's the innate functions of the brain that cause people to think that boys should play with trucks and that girls should be decorative. It's societal conditioning. It's gender stereotypes; and we need to eradicate them by becoming consciously aware of them and by making others consciously aware of them. Brains can learn. Thought patterns can be altered.


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## BunnysMomma (Dec 27, 2003)

My point was that human brains are never going to stop generalizing and stereotyping. Some people may find gender stereotyping offensive, and perhaps we should try to minimize it. But our brains were created to generalize and stereotype as our way of organizing our world and functioning in it so that we don't have to continually recreate our knowledge and relearn every time we are faced with a new situation. That's why people think boys with long hair are girls. In this society, most people with long hair are girls, so that's how our brains organize our reality. If we weren't allowed to use the discriminating functions of our brains for fear of offending someone, we'd all be lost in a huge amorphous fog.









Wilma


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Yet some of us manage not to stereotype people and generalize about them, even though we all have human brains. It's important to be able to allow new situations to amend our thinking and our preconceived notions. For instance, as soon as you realize that it is only MOST boys who have short hair and not ALL, you should stop assuming that long haired people are girls.


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## BunnysMomma (Dec 27, 2003)

No, I don't stop assuming that long-haired people are girls. When I meet a long-haired person who is a boy, I see him as an exception to my general rule, borne out by my long years of experience, that people with long hair are girls. If the day ever comes that it's truly a 50/50 split, I'll be more than willing to amend my basic assumptions.

I don't think we have to meet life with no assumptions. I think we just have to be open to new ideas and generous in our treatment of all people. And I think it's ok to make mistakes in our assumptions as long as we are graceful when we are corrected.

"What a beautiful little girl you have!"

"Actually, he's a boy. He just likes his hair long."

"Oh, my mistake. He certainly does have pretty hair."

Good enough for me.

Wilma


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Another problem with the animal comparison is that neck hair for lions and whiskers for cats are inherent traits for those animals, whereas long hair for girls and short hair for boys are not inherent traits -- they are imposed by society. Society needs to stop imposing double standards based on whether someone makes sperm or eggs. Inherently, boys and girls have hair on their heads that is exactly alike. There is probably an evolutionary reason for lions to have neck hair and cats to have whiskers. There is NO reason for boys to have short hair. There is NO reason for playing with trucks to be a boy thing. We need to reject notions that serve to emphasize gender differences that do not inherently exist, and that limit people to arbitrary roles.


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## Shann (Dec 19, 2003)

Could you try putting barettes in his hair to help hold back the bangs? I have done that with my boys' bangs (cause I also hate cutting them !) and it seems to work out great !


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## ja mama (Sep 6, 2003)

With ds1 it was so easy to know when to cut his hair. He asked to go to the salon with Daddy and have it cut. But it wasn't shocking as he's never liked the feel of my hair, or his when it started getting long. However ds2 loves my hair, loves his hair, plays with it, pets it... but dh has started saying we need to cut it soon. I've put him off with this weird thing I have about not wanting to cut it until he's weaned, at least. And dh is fine with that, sort of like a rite of passing. And since nursings have been getting less frequent I'm starting to hear more comments from dh. He doesn't want a hippie-haired son running around. (Dh is a total manly jock). What do I say to help him see this point of view.


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## Dakota's Mom (Apr 8, 2003)

DH would never go for barrettes. We get enough comments about how "cute she is" now. I'm afraid that would just push him over the edge into haircut city.

Kathi


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## Shann (Dec 19, 2003)

I guess the only other option to keep the hair (bangs) is just to brush them back more...maybe part the hair in the middle and sweep them out of the way? I dont know....cause I have always used barrettes in my boys' hair to keep it out of the eyes. Or you could push for "just a small trim" and NOTHING MORE ! Be firm that the hair will NOT come off !

_____________________________________________

Shann ...mom to Tristan (5) and Jevan (7)...never married mom, now with wonderful and sexy live-in (and sleep with) BF ! YAY!


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## chumani (Apr 12, 2002)

Dakota's mom

I have used 100% pure aloe vera gel on my boys hair until the front is long enough to pull back or however they want it. My 5yo (almost 6, hair to his waist) son loves his hair like "qwaigon" (star wars) and legolas (elf from lord of the rings) He hasn't seen lotr just a pic of legolas with long hair. Having his hair in the three braids like legolas keeps his hair out of his face really well. My 19 mo hair is too short for that yet but long enough to get in his eyes so I just use the aloe vera mixed with a little water and brush it back, works all day! safe too!

Best Wishes!
Sarah


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## *~*SewHappyNow*~* (Sep 25, 2002)

People often think my 10 month old dd is a boy. I don't dress her in frilly things often. I like blue and green. Half the time I don't even correct people who call her a boy. Babies are so gender neutral anyways.

I wouldn't really take it personally. Its your choice and some folks won't like it or agree wityh it.

However, I personally do not like long hair on boys. I would probably let my child wear his hair as he wished, but I do fear that when they are older they will see pictures and want to know why I let them look/dress that way, ya know? Of course my mom let me dress stupidly and didn't really try and stop me.. I sort of wish she had :LOL


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## Dakota's Mom (Apr 8, 2003)

I'll try the aloe vera gel. That sounds like it might work and it shouldnt break him out. If that fails I guess we'll go with barrettes. I could get black ones so they blend in with his hair.

Kathi


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Kathi---

Another option is to take a neutral/dark colored baby hair tie (like a tiny scrunchie) and pull all the "top" hair straight back and then to a tiny pony that lies along the back of his head. If you do it "right" (insteadx of having all the strips of scruchy together, have one hold it down directly towards the head) it just looks like their hair goes that way. It keeps DS's hair out of his eyes and looks more "masculine" than clips. For a long time he always wanted clips, though, so we've done those too!

I posted back in July, but DS is more and more adament he will *not* cut his hair! He has even taken to saying that he is a boy with long hair! My DB & SIL gave him a late birthday present of a playdough set with a hair cutter--- he *loves* the playdough, but refuses to cut the little peoples hair. The other day DD was chasing him around with her hand out saying "Buzzzz" and DS was SCREAMING! I was like, "stop pretending to be a bee, he doesn't like it." She said, "No, I'm pretending to cut his hair." LOL, it suddenly made sense why he was actually scared and didn't like the game!


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## Shann (Dec 19, 2003)

Come to think of it, I like these latest solutions better than I did mine of the"just a small trim" ! I have never tried the aloe vera, but it sounds like a good idea. I HAVE tried the "pulling the hair back and that is Ok, except that I like the "bangs in the eyes" look. But after thinking about all this, forget what I said about the "small trim" cause once you start ANY cutting, it gets out of hand and people get carried away and want more. Don't listen to me on this one....DONT CUT A MILLIMETER OF HIS HAIR ! LOL !


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## Dakota's Mom (Apr 8, 2003)

I tried the hair tie thing. I works to a degree. His hair is a little short to pull it back very far. So it looks a lot like a little girl. I think once I get a bit more experience at doing it, it will look okay. I still have to try the aloe.

You're so right about the small trim thing. That's why I didn't want to even start.

Kathi


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## Shann (Dec 19, 2003)

Yeah, haircutting of ANY small amount is just wrong and starts a bad precedent. I admit I cut just a msall amount off my boys' hair every few months to get rid of split ends, but even then i feel like crying ! The oldest has hair about middle ways down his shoulders and the youngest about to the top of his shoulders. My goal is waist length for both. YAY !

_______________________________________________

Shann ...mom to Tristan (5) and Jevan (7)...never married mom currently with awesome live-in (and yes, sleep with !) BF .


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

*I* actually suggested a bangs trim for DS, but DH said, "no way." We're not cutting it until he wants to does *not* mean we're not cutting it except for a trim, until he wants to. OKay with me


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Dakota's Mom_
*HELP!!!!

Ater listening to the inlaws whine abut getting ds's hair cut all day Thursday, now dh is starting to say maybe we should cut it too. He just wants to cut the front to keep it out of his eyes.*
Is it bothering your son? If not, maybe leaving it alone until it's long enough to go behind his ears would be the best bet. If it *is* bothering him (as it was my ds), then you could use barrettes or just cut it. When it became apparent to me that ds was extremely bothered by his hair falling in his eyes and wouldn't keep anything in his hair to keep it out of his eyes, I took that as a signal that he was ready for a haircut. It occurred to me that I might just be keeping it long to suit my own ideas about how he should look.


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## Dakota's Mom (Apr 8, 2003)

It soooooo ddoes not bother him that his har is in his eyes. If I comb it back and try t get it out of his eyes, he will shake his head so it falls right back down. So far the pony in the back doesn't work. I do put a side pony in when we're at home, but DH will not allow it out of the house.

Kathi


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## Corvus (Feb 13, 2003)

With all due respect, why is it that some of you refuse to cut your son's hair, even the bangs? Are you just trying to make a social statement, or do you have a legitimate reason? (I word it that way because I don't think that doing something purely for the sake of making a social statement is a legitimate reason, especially when it is at the expense of your child.) I'm honestly trying to understand why you feel so strongly about having your son wear long hair... and then you get angry when strangers think he's a girl.

Yea yea, I realize that boys-with-short-hair-and-girls-with-long-hair is a social construct, yada yada. And I certainly don't want any of you to cave in to pressure from your parents and IL's, esp. when it comes to ANY decisions about your child. But could you please explain what seems like an obsession with your son having long hair? Why do you want it long in the first place?

Long hair gets ruly and unkempt, and even if you want to keep it long, it DOES need a trim at least every 12 weeks or so. Do you at least trim your son's hair occasionally to make it look neater?

Something for you to ponder: I was a tomboy growing up, and I always wore my hair short, like a boy. That was how I liked it, but I was often mistaken for a boy, even as old as 7 years old. It was humiliating to me. I can't exactly put my finger on why it was so humiliating, but it was. Please think about that before you put your sons through that. (And believe me, it'd be worse in North American culture for a boy to be mistaken for a girl. I'm not saying that's right, but that IS the way it is in this culture.)


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

I don't understand Corvus. Did your parents force you to have short hair? If so, I'm sorry. If not, why didn't you just grow it out if it bothered you so much? Sounds like you got to make your choices, why should I restrict my sons?

As for us, we believe our son's hair is his. With DD she did not have a cut or trim until she asked for one (she was 2.75 years old at the time). Right after she turned four she got it cut shoulder lenght, then shorter and last fall she got it just under ear length. It has been really cute however *she* chooses. Now, she has decided to grow it out again, and that's great too.

Why should my son have less options just because he is a boy? When and if he ever expresses that he wants his hair cut, he will have it cut. I ask him all the time if he would like a hair cut or to have short hair and he always says, "no." He will say, "I have long hair" and the like. He is 28 months, btw. Honestly, I would be worried for his safety if I tried to force it and why would I force him to do something like that? It's his body, his hair, his choice.

I have a problem with society restricting the choices of anyone. I don't get upset with people thinking he is a girl, I get upset with people saying he is a girl *after* I have said he is a boy (specifically, treating my DD as if she doesn't know she has a brother!).

I'm no more obsessed with having my son have long hair than my daughter. And no, esp baby hair doesn't need trimmed ever 12 weeks. LOL, I'm lucky to get MY hair trimmed every 6 months.


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## hotmamacita (Sep 25, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Corvus_
*With all due respect, why is it that some of you refuse to cut your son's hair, even the bangs? Are you just trying to make a social statement, or do you have a legitimate reason? (I word it that way because I don't think that doing something purely for the sake of making a social statement is a legitimate reason, especially when it is at the expense of your child.) I'm honestly trying to understand why you feel so strongly about having your son wear long hair... and then you get angry when strangers think he's a girl.

Yea yea, I realize that boys-with-short-hair-and-girls-with-long-hair is a social construct, yada yada. And I certainly don't want any of you to cave in to pressure from your parents and IL's, esp. when it comes to ANY decisions about your child. But could you please explain what seems like an obsession with your son having long hair? Why do you want it long in the first place?

Long hair gets ruly and unkempt, and even if you want to keep it long, it DOES need a trim at least every 12 weeks or so. Do you at least trim your son's hair occasionally to make it look neater?

Something for you to ponder: I was a tomboy growing up, and I always wore my hair short, like a boy. That was how I liked it, but I was often mistaken for a boy, even as old as 7 years old. It was humiliating to me. I can't exactly put my finger on why it was so humiliating, but it was. Please think about that before you put your sons through that. (And believe me, it'd be worse in North American culture for a boy to be mistaken for a girl. I'm not saying that's right, but that IS the way it is in this culture.)*

Kinda hard to ponder it though. I am a bit thrown by your post and should go read the whole thread through to see where it came from. But I am sad that you felt humilated. That stinks.

my ds, 2.5, has curly long hair and we just trimmed it. it is still long but with his eyelashes he gets mistaken for a girl at times.

He is just so darn CUTE with his long curly hair. (I wish I could figure out how to show y'all Izzy)

If he wants to cut it when he is older than we will support that. But for now, we are enjoying his precious hair.

DD, 5, has only had a few trims since she was born. her REALLY long curly, in fact ringlets, hair is so beautiful and SHE LOVES IT. I will be sad the day she comes to me and says, 'Mama, I want to cut my hair." I'll honor it and probably donate it to LOCKS of LOVE.

Now if only I could end up with curly hair like my kids....


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## Dakota's Mom (Apr 8, 2003)

My hair has not been cut in at least 15 years. Not even a "little trim to make it look better. DH's hair has not been cut in at least 10 years. We believe in being as natural as possible. I don't cut my hair, color it, or use a dryer on it. I only wash my hair with a hemp shampoo every other day. I also don't wear makeup or anything else that would change my natural appearance. Therefore, why would I cut my DS's hair and change his natural appearance. I also don't believe in doing anything t his body without his permmission. Since he is not old enough to ask for a haircut, he's not getting one. If he wants a haircut, all he has to do is ask. The same goes for if he wants to be circumcized or have pierced ears. It's not my body, it's his. I won't do anything to change his natural appearance until he asks for the change.

Kathi


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

>>With all due respect, why is it that some of you refuse to cut your son's hair, even the bangs? ... Why do you want it long in the first place?

For the exact same reason I leave my girl's hair alone. It's natural. Plus, it's not my hair to cut. And once you start cutting bangs, you have to keep cutting them, as opposed to letting them get to a point where they will never have to be cut. I absolutely do not believe in treating girls and boys differently from each other. And the reason the few kids who break the taboo get so much flak is because everyone keeps conforming to this stupid double standard. If kids getting teased is a problem, the way to solve the problem is for MORE kids to break the taboo, not fewer.


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## ebethmom (Jan 29, 2002)

I resisted getting my son's long curly hair cut, but my husband just couldn't stand it anymore. The comments when we were out just got to him. It didn't matter how "boy" his clothes were, someone always asked what "her" name was.

Ds only had peach fuzz hair for the longest time. And his bangs still have not grown much. All of his hair grew in the back and on the sides. I told dh that we would get his hair cut when it got in his eyes. But dh just couldn't wait.

So I let dh take ds to get his hair cut right before Christmas. And it still looks cute. He looks like such a little boy now! I miss his baby look, and it was hard to take that step in his growing up. But ds likes his new haircut. He told everyone "I look handsome!"

And his hair was out of control! If he had a restless night, it would just stick out every which way. Now it has this nice body and bounce.


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## Corvus (Feb 13, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Dakota's Mom_
*My hair has not been cut in at least 15 years. Not even a "little trim to make it look better. DH's hair has not been cut in at least 10 years. We believe in being as natural as possible. I don't cut my hair, color it, or use a dryer on it. I only wash my hair with a hemp shampoo every other day. I also don't wear makeup or anything else that would change my natural appearance. Therefore, why would I cut my DS's hair and change his natural appearance.*
Well, I believe in being as natural as possible as well. I don't wear make-up, cut my hair or color it or use a hair dryer either. However, I DO cut my hair at least every 12 weeks. I have very thick curly hair, and I would look RIDICULOUS if I didn't cut it for 15 years. I'd look ridiculous if I didn't cut it for 1 year. It would become a big tangled lion's mane. My best friend who has thin straight hair also requires at least a trim every few months. The ends get split, tangly, and unruly. That's uncomfortable to me.

Quote:

_Originally posted by Dakota's Mom_
*I also don't believe in doing anything t his body without his permmission. Since he is not old enough to ask for a haircut, he's not getting one. If he wants a haircut, all he has to do is ask. The same goes for if he wants to be circumcized or have pierced ears. It's not my body, it's his. I won't do anything to change his natural appearance until he asks for the change.*
Do you make decisions about his medical care/medicine when he's sick, or do you let him make all those decisions? Do you choose what he will eat at each meal and snack, or do you let him choose? After all, those things affect his body.

My point is, as a parent, you are charged with making certain decisions for your child, because your child is too young and inexperienced to make those decisions. As the child gets older, s/he is given more and more responsibility in making decisions for her/himself.

Hair is minor in the grand scheme of things. But for all you AND he know, he might be more comfortable with short hair... he just doesn't know it yet, because he's never tried it. He doesn't know any different from having long hair. Just an observation.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Corvus_
*Hair is minor in the grand scheme of things. But for all you AND he know, he might be more comfortable with short hair... he just doesn't know it yet, because he's never tried it. He doesn't know any different from having long hair. Just an observation.*
I imagine most (if not all) of these mamas watch their children for signs of discomfort. This was the indicator for a haircut with my son - he was getting frustrated with his hair being in his eyes and would not let me put anything in it to fix the problem.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by ebethmom_
*I resisted getting my son's long curly hair cut, but my husband just couldn't stand it anymore. The comments when we were out just got to him. It didn't matter how "boy" his clothes were, someone always asked what "her" name was.*
My son's hair is very much the same - long, with ringlets (although it's a bit shorter now). And he constantly gets the "little girl" comments. It cracks me up because he has the stereotypical "boy" personality and is always dressed in typical boy colors and styles.

It really bothered dh, I think because of his own baggage from having the same hair (and probably the same comments) when he was young. I resisted a haircut for the longest time and only gave in when he was 2.5 and obviously bothered with it. It also began to look unhealthy at that point and he started to get dreads on the ends - which I have nothing against except that his hair was still pretty thin and so they really just looked like mats. (I'm secretly hoping that he'll want dreads in a few years :LOL).

He does look adorable with his hair cut. It's still long, just not as long, and seems to be just short enough now that people have quit with the girl comments. I thought I'd be very sad about his hair being cut - that he'd lose some endearing quality. Truth be told, I think he's just that much more adorable.


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## Dakota's Mom (Apr 8, 2003)

Sorry this posted twice


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## Dakota's Mom (Apr 8, 2003)

"Do you make decisions about his medical care/medicine when he's sick, or do you let him make all those decisions? Do you choose what he will eat at each meal and snack, or do you let him choose? After all, those things affect his body.
My point is, as a parent, you are charged with making certain decisions for your child, because your child is too young and inexperienced to make those decisions. As the child gets older, s/he is given more and more responsibility in making
decisions for her/himself."

I can't begin to tell you how condesending this kind of statement is. How dare you even begin to question how I parent my child? Of course I make necessary medical decisions for him. Given a choice, he would not take the medicine that saved his life when he was struggling with asthma. I had to make the decisions to put him on all kinds of toxic garbage to help him breathe. But I also had to make the decision to find out why he wasn't breathing and not just listen to the doctor who thought she was god. As soon as I was able to figure out that he was allergic to milk, I took him off the toxic drugs. My point is, there is a world of difference in making decisions that will effect whether or not he can breathe and making decisions about his appearance. I make the decision as to what to offer him to eat but he decides if he is going to eat it or not. I really have little tolerance for these self-righteous "people" who question how I raise my child. The original question that I was responding to ask why some of us chose not to cut our son's hair. I answered that question. If you choose to cut your hair every 12 weeks, that's your choice. No one is telling you not to do it. Don't tell me I have to cut my son's hair. That's his decision to make. Personally I like it long like mine and his daddy's.

Kathi


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## Shann (Dec 19, 2003)

AMEN TO YOU, KATHI ! I was offended by those statements and questions, both personally and FOR YOU ! You are obviously a great mother and it is offensive for anyone to suggest otherwise ! Keep your son's hair as long as it's possible for it to be and ignore such comments !


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## Shann (Dec 19, 2003)

AMEN TO YOU, KATHI ! I was offended by those statements and questions, both personally and FOR YOU ! You are obviously a great mother and it is offensive for anyone to suggest otherwise ! Keep your son's hair as long as it's possible for it to be and ignore such comments !


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## Corvus (Feb 13, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Dakota's Mom_
*"Do you make decisions about his medical care/medicine when he's sick, or do you let him make all those decisions? Do you choose what he will eat at each meal and snack, or do you let him choose? After all, those things affect his body.
My point is, as a parent, you are charged with making certain decisions for your child, because your child is too young and inexperienced to make those decisions. As the child gets older, s/he is given more and more responsibility in making
decisions for her/himself."

I can't begin to tell you how condesending this kind of statement is. How dare you even begin to question how I parent my child? Of course I make necessary medical decisions for him.*
Wow Kathi. You COMPLETELY misunderstood what I wrote in that post. COMPLETELY.









I was not really questioning whether you make food and medical decisions for your son. I OBVIOUSLY know that, as his parent, YOU MAKE THOSE DECISIONS FOR HIM. You see, those were rhetorical questions meant to point out to you that YOU INDEED MAKE DECISIONS EVERY DAY THAT AFFECT HIS BODY. Therefore, saying that you have no right to make a decision about his hair because it's HIS hair and HIS body is not a valid argument, because you make such decisions every day.

And how does either of you really know whether he'd be comfortable with short hair? He doesn't even know it's a possibility. You may present the option to him, but at this age, he doesn't really KNOW what it would feel like to have his hair short. He is too young to remember the experience of short hair, and he is not old enough to understand how he might be more comfortable with short hair. That's all.

I was not questioning how you parent your child. Just trying to make you see the other possibility regarding his hair. Good grief. Not everyone who has a different opinion than you is "questioning how you raise your child."


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## Corvus (Feb 13, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Shann_
*AMEN TO YOU, KATHI ! I was offended by those statements and questions, both personally and FOR YOU ! You are obviously a great mother and it is offensive for anyone to suggest otherwise ! Keep your son's hair as long as it's possible for it to be and ignore such comments !*
And Shann misunderstood as well. Shann, please read my above post for clarification.


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

When a parent makes a medical decision for a child, or decides what foods to offer a child, there is a very good reason for the decision. There is no good reason for destroying the natural beauty of a child's hair, unless the child specifically requests a different look. Leaving the hair natural should be the default. There is no reason to suggest the option of short hair, especially when you wouldn't do so in the case of a girl. Conforming to a cultural double standard, whose purpose is to make males and females seem to be more different from each other than they actually are, is the worst possible reason.


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## Corvus (Feb 13, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Devrock_
*When a parent makes a medical decision for a child, or decides what foods to offer a child, there is a very good reason for the decision. There is no good reason for destroying the natural beauty of a child's hair, unless the child specifically requests a different look. Leaving the hair natural should be the default. There is no reason to suggest the option of short hair, especially when you wouldn't do so in the case of a girl. Conforming to a cultural double standard, whose purpose is to make males and females seem to be more different from each other than they actually are, is the worst possible reason.*
I never suggested that anyone FORCE their child to have short hair. However, the option to cut the child's hair DOES exist. Just like there is an "option" to cut the child's fingernails and toenails. Do you purposely leave those in their natural state, thus letting them grow to the point that the child scratches himself (and others) in the face and gets ingrown toenails? I doubt it. I'm sure you trim them occasionally.

And I never said that any child should conform to a "cultural double standard." After all, as a child, I had short hair to the point that I looked like a boy. And as for your comment that I wouldn't suggest short hair for a girl, you are WRONG. I have a daughter, and I'm not a "girly-girl," so I doubt that I will be letting her hair grow very long as a toddler. I'm not good at taking care of long hair, and I can't stand having long hair in my face. So I'm not going to subject her to that.

Also, males and females are VERY different from each other. That is basic biology. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with acknowledging the differences between males and females. Pretending that they are the same is short-sighted and misguided.


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Corvus_
*I never suggested that anyone FORCE their child to have short hair.*
Well, that's good. Of course, I never said you did.

Quote:

_Originally posted by Corvus_
*Just like there is an "option" to cut the child's fingernails and toenails. Do you purposely leave those in their natural state, thus letting them grow to the point that the child scratches himself (and others) in the face and gets ingrown toenails? I doubt it. I'm sure you trim them occasionally.*
No, I never trim fingernails or toe nails. I leave them in their natural state. My child never gets ingrown toe nails. As a newborn she scratched herself a couple of times, but newborns manage to do that whether you trim their finger nails or not. Leaving her finger nails and toe nails alone has never caused a problem.

Even if there was a problem with finger nails or toe nails causing injuries or pain, I don't see how you can apply this to hair. Long hair isn't sharp - it doesn't scratch anyone.

Quote:

_Originally posted by Corvus_
*And as for your comment that I wouldn't suggest short hair for a girl, you are WRONG.*
When I said 'especially when you wouldn't do so in the case of a girl,' I meant 'especially when ONE wouldn't do so in the case of a girl.' I didn't mean you.

Quote:

_Originally posted by Corvus_
*Also, males and females are VERY different from each other. That is basic biology. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with acknowledging the differences between males and females. Pretending that they are the same is short-sighted and misguided.*
Males and females are more similar than they are different, which seems to bother a lot of people in this culture, and that is why this culture keeps inventing unnatural ways to make males and females more different than they actually are. Males having short hair and females having long hair is not acknowledging a difference that actually exists -- it is artificially creating a difference. In actuality, males and females naturally grow hair that is exactly alike.


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## Corvus (Feb 13, 2003)

Devrock, eventually your child's toenails (and probably fingernails as well) will crack and break, causing extreme pain and a susceptibility to fungus. For your child's sake, I hope you will re-think your refusal to clip her/his nails.


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Well, it's been 3 years now without a problem, and no indication of any problem to come. When exactly do you believe this is going to present a problem, and what makes you so sure?


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## Dakota's Mom (Apr 8, 2003)

Okay, so we all "misunderstood" what Corvus tried so hard to enlighten us on. After all, she was only, "Just trying to make you see the other possibility regarding his hair." Well, I have my way of raising MY child and you have yours. Please don't try to "MAKE ME SEE" that your way is right. It's different. That's all. Just different.

I answered the question about why I don't cut my son's hair. And now I'm moving on to better topics.

Good luck to you Corvus.

Kathi


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## Joyce in the mts. (Jan 12, 2003)

Y'know....this is very interesting...

I still have pictures from when my oldest son, now almost 24 years old, was just 3 1/2 or so, with long ringlets...and you know, he didn't even know at that age that male humans could HAVE short hair!!!! ALL and I mean ALL the grown men in his life were long haired, bearded and beautiful.

One of my oldest and dearest friends' sons always had long, very long, beee-oo-tiful blonde hair and was he ever a gorgeous kid! I have not seen him in years. As he grew he really became quite handsome, very muscular and could do backflips from standing position....just an incredible strong body for a young kid. Haven't seen him since he was about 13 or maybe younger.

Both my sons were long haired by their own preference for many, many years before they chose to cut their hair. My oldest had very curly hair and was amazingly tolerant when I combed out the tangles after washing it...bless him. Today, at 24, he wears his hair very short but has a beard or sometimes just a goatee.

My younger son has VERY thick wavy blonde hair. When his hair is long, his ponytail is amazingly thick. He had a hard time keeping it from matting because it is so thick, in his last high school years, but kept it decent as he could. I cut it for the first time in years this past spring just before his graduation.

I am still the only one who cuts my boys hair....they are just cheap- and I have learned and developed pretty good haircutting skills over the years. I even buy the professional scissors for that purpose.

My daughter's hair is beautiful and thick and long and was ever since she was about 2- lucky her. For the first time in a very long time, she had her hair trimmed last summer professionally. My hair is long with some gray streaks. I don't use any color...except once I used henna, which was just for fun. My hubby and my daughter used to streak their hair odd colors (blue, plum, etc) together. At that time, my hubby was working doing direct care in a group home caring for low-functioning clients, so there was no real dress or appearance code. My daughter was probably in middle school to junior high at the time and just hungry to be unique.

We always supported our kids' decisions about their appearance, clothing, etc. It all can be changed, is temporary and they grow to prefer many ways of doing things before they settle, mature and really gel into their adult style. There's no harm in allowing boys long hair as babies or growing children or girls short hair, or even the shaving of heads. It all grows back or can be cut. (Though I admit to crying while cutting my sons' hair when it had been very long for a long time.)

For the record, my husband has always worn his hair long, except for desperate economic times when he had to try to get a quick job, where the length of his hair mattered to the boss during the interview. He has only shaven his face a couple of times in our 26 years together. His hair is currently long, graying and getting thin on top, but still in a ponytail and he is a professional person now: a teacher in an alternative highschool. No one seems to mind his style, nor questions his professionalism because of it.

In addition, let me remind folks that there was a time in our history when little boys (my recently deceased 90+ year old uncle Fred is one whose photo documentation I have in my possession) wore their hair very long and even wore dresses and ribbonsas tots. It was the way at that time. The photo I have is really wonderful of my recently deceased uncle, with a straw hat complete with ribbons, hair in long ringlets and he is wearing a dress, stockings and so on. It was a formal picture in the style of that time. He was the oldest of the 7 children. So this picture was very prized. I have come to find that he was not the only little boy of his time that was dressed that way for a formal picture. That was just the way. He may have been about 3 to 4, very young and they just didn't cut the boys' hair at that time. And this was a farming family.

Take a look at classic art and see, that like "Blue Boy" for example, which I think is a Gainesborough painting, boys were dressed very "fru-fru", in pastel colors, with satin sashes even if in breeches, with long hair, etc., quite often historically. (And there is Little Lord Fauntleroy- classic children's literature- a very poignant story.)

Like I said, my oldest son didn't even know that short hair was "the norm" for male people the first four years or so of his life. He sure doesn't seem scarred for life having spent so many of his formative years with long hair. And for myself, when I hit about 12 or so, I started having my extremely thick hair cut very short in summer because it was uncomfortable for me otherwise. That was my choice. My mom had very wavy, nearly kinky, thick hair and after a time, she cut hers and has worn it very short ever since.

I think we always honored our kids' free will about their hair...and we always said that if they could and chose to deal with all the repercussions of how they chose to look whether the norm or unique, it was okay with us.

Just because other folks are ignorant and wonder about or mistake the gender of your beloved child...don't take it too much to heart. Not everyone is lucky at guessing and it is often hard to tell when kids are very wee. And folks really are a reflection of the wider society in their sensibilities...and we don't all share the same sensibilities and yet we seem never to remember that fact on either side of this issue. There is NO right or wrong here, except where judgement takes hold. Let's just remember that we are all human, and can make an honest mistake or two. Of course also, there is that saying, "Never ASSUME...it makes as ASS out of U and ME." Remember that one? Just to say that you never really can depend on clothing or hair to signal visually anyone's gender, really, and that we can all afford to ask sincere questions, even awkwardly, instead of assuming. We can also afford to be kind when answering what may be an embarrassed if not ignorant question rather than take it to heart. We may never see that person inquiring about our child again so no harm done in the long run, eh?

And really no one holds the corner on correct, most caring, or right parenting. No one here or anywhere else can be the most wise parent, with advice or admonishment that works or applies to just everyone. We all have wondrously survived our own parents' childrearing "experiments" and all the phases and fads from Dr. Spock to Brazelton, even to Ezzo today... and some never cracked a book and did what came naturally (Like me







) .

Live, Love and Learn!

There I go again rambling...Joyce in the mts.


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## mountain (Dec 12, 2001)

This thread has got some people rearing up, doesn't it?








While I love the discourse of philosophies, can I make a suggestion?

Joyce above there, I love your rambling! You sound so positive & shared your own personal experiencess as well as something to think about. You didn't down anybody, just shared your view.

Perhaps the reason *some* posters are getting such negative reactions is not the message, but the way its delivered...we all recognize we've got our own thoughts, but I figure the purpose of these boards is to enlighten? To see how vast varieties of people raise their babies & pick your own path.

When we post our OPINION as SCIENTIFIC FACT ( like the 4 legged animal 'theory' earlier, or suggesting you may be 'shortsighted and misguided' if you don't see 'basic biology')
I feel like it sounds contentious, as if you're talking down to your equals---which I hope is not what you wish to achieve here. I am guilty of such statements myself--but I AM trying to take a more open approach so as not to stifle with a one-sided viewpoint.

It's here that I really get a good mind-twist, thanks to everyone who posts ever!!!!


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## BunnysMomma (Dec 27, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by mountain_
*
Perhaps the reason *some* posters are getting such negative reactions is not the message, but the way its delivered.

When we post our OPINION as SCIENTIFIC FACT ( like the 4 legged animal 'theory' earlier, or suggesting you may be 'shortsighted and misguided' if you don't see 'basic biology')*
I'm not so sure it's always the "method of delivery" that gets people all hopped up. I think a lot of the time what does it is that people take someone else's statement of opinion as a personal attack on their different opinion. I have noticed that that happens A LOT around here (I have been reading these boards for a long, long time). If we want to have discussions about things more important and stimulating than TV and weather, we all have to recognize that just because someone disagrees with us and states their differing opinion, or tells us that they think we are flat-out wrong, it doesn't mean that they are bashing us, being disprespectful, or condemning our parenting. I happen to think that a lot of things people here do as parents are odd or far-our or unnecessary, but I also love the fact that the people who come here THINK about what they do ... and a lot of times in normal life that doesn't happen. People just go with the flow because it's the flow.

If we're going to be thoughtful in our parenting and talk about our choices, our choices will inevitably clash sometimes. That's ok! It doesn't mean someone always has to be right and someone always has to be wrong, and it DOESN'T mean that someone is being persoanlly attacked. I think people get too sensitive around here.

That said, I was the person who posted the 4-legged animal theory. In my own defense, I'd like to say that it is indeed scientific fact that human brains are deductive, not inductive. We start at the top and work down, categorizing and stereotyping as we go. That's just "basic biology." The point of my post was to answer the question "Why do people assume that anyone with long hair is a girl?" To me, the most basic reason is because that's how we're biologically set up. I wasn't defending stereotypes (as I tried to make clear), I was just answering the basic question of "why."

Wilma


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by BunnysMomma_
*We start at the top and work down, categorizing and stereotyping as we go. That's just "basic biology." The point of my post was to answer the question "Why do people assume that anyone with long hair is a girl?" To me, the most basic reason is because that's how we're biologically set up.*
If someone's experience is that most long-haired people turn out to be female, then that would explain an initial reaction of the word "girl" popping into your head when you first see the (long-haired) person. However, before the phrase "what a cute little girl" actually comes out of your mouth, the advanced human brain has a chance, and has the ability, to do some conscious thinking and re-evaluation. If you are aware that short hair on males is not an innate characteristic, or that *SOME* males have long hair, you should be able to question your original assumption before you stick your foot in your mouth. I don't think the question at hand is "why do people initially assume it's a girl" -- I think in our culture it's forgivable and defensible to have that initial reaction -- I think the question at hand is "why do people *continue* to *insist* that it *must* be a girl?"


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## mountain (Dec 12, 2001)

I can't stop laughing!

SBF, ITA that it is a learned behavior to assume that someone w/ long hair is a girl...I believe there are biological aspects of gender that don't need to apply at an introductory meeting!

Bunnysmama, don't take this as a







flame, I love the conversation, just feel like we need to look at both sides of the nature/nurture here...I really feel like it wouldn't end the world if we approached a baby/child as a beautiful person, not a gender. For what purpose would we need to deduct? We're not going to date that particular baby, are we? ITA that humans classify. but we are thinking beings who can decide when we've gone too far (that is my hope for the world, anyway







) By always placing people in categories, I think we dehumanize them (e.g. you're a female, you're OCD, you're depressed, you're republican, you're an INTP) Of course, for medical and scientific purposes, some info would be valuable to classify....but here we are talking about the annoyance it causes when someone calls your kid a girl b/c he has long hair. The easiest solution seems to keep your comments open-ended in all situations, keep your eyes open & you will figure it out soon enough---sneak up on them in the bathroom, maybe lol


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## BunnysMomma (Dec 27, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by SBFmommy_
*I think the question at hand is "why do people *continue* to *insist* that it *must* be a girl?"*
Because not everyone is as enlightened as you are, clearly.









I didn't take your post as a flame, mountain, but I am curious as to whether you and SBF actually read what I wrote. Nowhere did I say that stereotyping is fine and that we should all run amok stereotyping one another with wild abandon. As I have now stated (I believe) 3 times, the question I was trying to answer is "Why do people ASSUME that those with long hair are girls?" Someone somewhere on this thread asked that question. I gave my answer to it. We organize our world by deduction. So most people form mental templates that say, "Long hair=girl." I don't know why some people say rude things or seem unable to understand that not all long-haired people are girls. I never said that we can't rise above our gut reactions.

I am guilty of claiming that even though I am totally aware of the fact that some guys have long hair, I won't be changing my basic assumption that long hair=girl. But that doesn't mean that I will rudely accost long-haired boys and taunt them about their hair.

I forget why the OP even started this thread, but I'm surpised it's taken 5 pages to hash out. I guess I just approach situations with an "oh, well" attitude so I don't get bunged up about other people and what they say and do.

Wilma


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Yes, I have actually read everything you have written, and I still don't understand why you insist on assuming that people with long hair are female. When you know that there are long haired males, it is not a justifiable assumption. Hair length is not an accurate method of determining a person's sex, so you should not judge someone's sex based on their hair length. It's that simple.


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## Corvus (Feb 13, 2003)

BunnysMomma, FWIW, *I* understand EXACTLY what you're saying. I understood it the first time you posted it; I don't know why some people don't understand it after you've explained it three times.

Maybe everyone in the world should stop talking to each other at all. That way, there would be no chance of offending anyone.


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

Wow. I didn't realize this thread had taken a more "dramatic" turn. I missed that somehow.

Nobody has crossed any boundaries yet, but can I ask y'all to please try to be civil? If anyone posts something that you find offensive, just PM me and I'll look into it and see if any regs are being broken.

**********************

_Taking off my mod hat..._

Bunny'sMama, I also totally understand you and know that you are correct. I obviously read too many science books, lol.









When DD was younger she always got called a boy. I could have cared less because honestly, at that age it's hard to tell and I was never into frilly stuff.

And personally, I like short hair. I always find long-haired girls look really unkempt and it seems to just get in their way. Often it's a mother with an "overly-frilly" sense of what looks "pretty". Well, that's my own admittedly biased opinion, lol. I think some boys look really cute with long hair. But I'm afraid I'll probably still call them girls, in the absence of any other information. Though I would certainly never argue about being corrected, lol!

I trim DD's hair regularly. Right now she has a chin length "bob" with short bangs. I've worn my hair very short for years now and am only just now growing it out. It's almost down past my ears and I consider that long, lol.


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## Shann (Dec 19, 2003)

I let my boy's hair be long cause I like it and so do they ! Plain and simple ! It's CUTE ! And I don't plan to cut it ! So I guess I don't see why some people think we have or need a reason beyond that. I asked my boys what they think of their long hair the other day and the fact that some people think they are girls, and my oldest (age 7) summed it up beautifully: He said, "I LOVE my hair long and I don't give a f*ck what other people say about it !" I loved that response (yes, even with the swear word !) and told him so, cause it sums up my opinion on the whole thing too !


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Shann_
*"I LOVE my hair long and I don't give a f*ck what other people say about it !"*
:LOL

Yeah, I'd say that's pretty succinct!


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## EMZ (Sep 25, 2003)

My 2 1/2 yr old daughter has never had a haircut becayse her hair has not grown long enough to need one yet.

People often assume she's a boy when she's wearing a sweatshirt and jeans. I try to dress her in nice "girly" clothes so that people will know but it never fails, the one day I have her in "neutral" type clothes people automatically assume she is a boy and tell me how handsome he is. I just smile and say thank you because I figure at least they are saying he's attractive.

Oh, and to tell you the truth, I look at my sweet little girl sometimes and I can see how they mistake her for a boy. I don't get upset about it but I try to make SURE a child is a boy or a girl before I speak to others. If I'm not sure, I ask.


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

I have an idea that I'm not sure if anyone mentioned&#8230;when people are skeptical about your son's sex, just offer to "prove" it to 'em! KIDDING!


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## mountain (Dec 12, 2001)

GENDER is a biological construct.
How we let GENDER affect our thinking is a SOCIETAL construct.

IMO, of course I've got those magic science degrees but they only go so far...

As a mother with a son who chooses to have long hair, I would ask that anyone who wants to classify him as a 'girl', due to whatever overwhelming urge, just to be kind...if you feel the need to form those assumptions in your brain--please don't VOCALIZE your gender assumptions, you may learn something you didn't expect...

I totally love this discussion, and the fact that it's so long, because it's not just about hair--it IS emotional. After re-reading everyone's posts, I realized my decisions to let my kids decide what to do with his hair is fueled by my mother's insistence that I HAVE long hair! I hated it, the brushing & snarls. So I do let my kids decide & when they're old enough, to take care of it themselves. My son decided at 4 to cut his hair, & we did. Now he wants it long again...and I just hope the world is enlightened enough to treat him like a human & not make him feel like he should have his hair a certain length so that people can classify him correctly. I think we should have pink, purple, blue, long short, spiked, mohawked, anything!
If you think about it, hair has been the source of warmth, assertion, reflection of society's standards (or breaking out of them), reflection of wealth (to have that $80 cut), reflection of disdain for wealth (e.g. dreadlocks, the shags)...My nephew had dreadlocks when he was 4 & you should have seen people's reaction! My own instinct was to brush his hair, but I KEPT THAT TO MYSELF! Imagine that! I did that out of my respect for him to keep his hair whatever way he sees fit...
I feel like that's what this is all about--respect for other humans * I think we can agree on that


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

I know this may be off topic but I always used the word "sex" as the simple biological distinction between male and female and "gender" as identity defined by the individual and/or the expectations based on a persons "sex" according to society and culture.

"Long hair = Girl" is a cultural distinction, not a biological distinction.

I also find this discussion interesting. What I find so strange, OP is some people's reaction when you correct them after they assume that your son is, in fact, a boy. How strange that they would react that way. Maybe they fear that you are doing some strange sociological experiment on them.

Anyway, I love long hair on all children. I would probably be one to verbalize what sex I thought your child was only because our language sometimes makes it hard NOT to make that distinction. For instance, if we were at the park together and your son was playing and I wanted to ask you something about *him* I would probably reach for a pronoun, which are gendered in English.

BUT, I would never, ever question YOU once you corrected me.

My daughter has her hair cut short *because it makes my life easier* and 80% of the time people assume she's a boy. Personally, I don't care. I WOULD care if they questioned my authority about the sex of my own child.

I've always love androgynous looking people so I probably take it as a compliment when people ask if my daughter is a boy.


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