# Comments about fat people



## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

Long post, so please bear with me if you can help me address this issue with DD.

I have a four year old who makes comments about fat people. Examples: she said something about the mother of another preschool student, and thank goodness the mom didn't hear her. At Whole Foods earlier this week she made the comment that "that man is the fattest ever!" I think he was far enough away that he didn't hear.

With regard to our family: we don't really talk about bodies too much, except to talk about how we need to eat certain foods to make our bodies work well, and go out an get some exercise (walking, biking) to keep our bodies happy. I grew up with a diet-obsessed mother and grandmother, and am really conscious of not passing that on to my kid. (For the record, DD is small all over--takes after her dad, who's 5'6 and 135. I'm 5'6, but was 165 and a size 14 before pregnancy. We don't have anyone in our family who would count as obese, but we definitely have our share of chubby people.)

So, I'm wondering where to go with this. I only got a report back from preschool about the first incident, and it was much after the fact, so I didn't address it (they talked about hurting the mom's feelings). I talked to her in Whole Foods about her words making the man sad.

But here's the issue... I don't want her going up to obese and overweight people and telling them that they're so fat (and yes, she told me that I'm fat, once). But I also worry that I'm setting up this idea that body type is something to tiptoe around, and that by talking about how hurtful those words are, I'm reinforcing the "fat-ism" that I'm trying to escape from my own family. I thought about telling her that we don't comment on people's looks at all, but that would take away things like "Wow, I really like your skirt" or "You look really great today," which I think are comments that people _like_ to hear.

I dunno. Maybe I'm just obsessing about this too much, and this is all just coming from my own past weirdness about body size.

Thoughts?


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Tell her how rude it is, and hurtful. Ask her how she would like it if someone made comments about how small she is, or how skinny she is.

She is old enough to understand that just because you think it, doesn't mean it should be said.


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## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

I think young children don't understand that it's hurtful, because they aren't necessarily making the comment as something negative. They're just observing what they see. "The sky is blue, the grass is green, that man is really fat."

If you haven't made "fat" a bad word at home, it's unlikely that your DD has any inkling that "fat" is something that society looks down upon. She's just pointing out something that's unusual to her...like if she saw a girl with a fluroescent pink mohawk. If she shouted, "That girl has the pinkest hair ever!" it's not likely that you'd be upset about that, eh?

In order for her to understand that it's hurtful, you'll have to explain WHY it's hurtful, or it will have no meaning for her. If someone made a comment about how small or skinny she is, it's possible that she wouldn't think twice about it....especially if she IS small and skinny.


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## fairymom (Sep 15, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TinkerBelle* 
Tell her how rude it is, and hurtful. Ask her how she would like it if someone made comments about how small she is, or how skinny she is.

She is old enough to understand that just because you think it, doesn't mean it should be said.











I also think it's part of the age- my ds4 has made very loud comments about people looking "weird". I just tell him it's not nice to say things that may hurt their feelings and/or point out that someone is different than what is "normal" in our world- that there are different people of all shapes, sizes, and looks. What is normal in our world/community would be seen as different in others (purple hair, multi piercings,etc). I remember all my dc doing this (noticing differences) at this age and they usually "grow" out of it quickly (by 5 for most of mine).


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *staceychev* 
I thought about telling her that we don't comment on people's looks at all, but that would take away things like "Wow, I really like your skirt" or "You look really great today," which I think are comments that people _like_ to hear.

Talking about someone's clothes and talking about someone's body are very different. Instead of saying not to comment on people's looks altogether, you could just say that it's rude to comment on people's bodies, big or small.


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## BroodyWoodsgal (Jan 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2xy* 
I think young children don't understand that it's hurtful, because they aren't necessarily making the comment as something negative. They're just observing what they see. "The sky is blue, the grass is green, that man is really fat."

If you haven't made "fat" a bad word at home, it's unlikely that your DD has any inkling that "fat" is something that society looks down upon. She's just pointing out something that's unusual to her...like if she saw a girl with a fluroescent pink mohawk. If she shouted, "That girl has the pinkest hair ever!" it's not likely that you'd be upset about that, eh?

In order for her to understand that it's hurtful, you'll have to explain WHY it's hurtful, or it will have no meaning for her. If someone made a comment about how small or skinny she is, it's possible that she wouldn't think twice about it....especially if she IS small and skinny.

^This rings so true IMO.

OP....it's like this poster said..."fat" is simply not a "bad" word in your home so she is making an observation about the way someone looks and isn't attaching that negative conotation that you or I would.

Maybe try explaining that sometimes people who are mean or don't have very good manners make fun of people for being different and that one of the differences they will poke fun at is a person being "fat". Explain that because of that, if someone who is bigger hears you say that they are really fat, it could make them feel badly, or like you are poking fun at them. I know some four year olds can have a conversation like that....and some four year olds I've known definitely couldn't have that sort of conversation without being confused or feeling badly....but maybe, same concept, tweaked a bit to fit her level of understanding about such things?

I admire and respect greatly your feeling that "fat" not become a bad word. It wasn't in our family growing up and I've always had extremely positive feelings about larger people....all I remember is a friend of the family who was HUGE and I swear, was the happiest, most loving person ever and for a kid, the BEST seat in the house...the hugs this woman used to give were amazing. Whenever I see a big mama in the mall or a store holding a baby kid and the kid is just draped across her whole chest...I just close my eyes and try to remember that awesome, comforting feeling.

Anyway...wow, that was a tangent! I guess helping her to understand that some people make these kinds of observations in mean ways...and that being fat isn't bad...but some people try to MAKE it bad, because it's different. GL...it's tough to explain stuff like this.


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## zech13_9_goforgold (Jun 24, 2008)

As an obese woman, I know that people (kids, adults, everyone) notice and even treat me differently sometimes. I would prefer that after kids say something about my weight that the parent, guardian, ect would say something like, "Yes, she is, but isn't she wearing a pretty skirt." Or, "Yes, she is, but doesn't she have a nice smile." Or, "Yes, she is, but she looks really friendly."

I think that kids are always going to notice differences between themselves and others. Even if they don't speak what they think, they still need to be taught to think well of others. I think the way to counter society's focus on bodies is not to ignore it and to try to shut them up. I find kids whispering about me more annoying than if they just spoke it aloud. I don't have a disease! But, I am fat. If a kid in my hearing said something about my weight, I would tell them the truth. "Yes, I am fat (or whatever word they use) and you're thin, but that's ok. People come in different colors and different sizes. It's all just part of the beautiful creation God has made." Ok, so I'd probably say that more at church and not so much at the grocery store.

Or, I might say, "Yes, I am fat, but I'm also loved."

If I'm at the grocery store, I might say, "Yes, I am fat, and my favorite foods are grapes and strawberries." I think kids need to learn that not all fat people constantly eat junk food (not like TV says). Just like the fact that not all thin people make themselves throw up or refuse to eat (like in "Mean Girls).

So, to sum up: kids are honest. Let's not make them dishonest. Teach them to think well of people.


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## JBaxter (May 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2xy* 
I think young children don't understand that it's hurtful, because they aren't necessarily making the comment as something negative. They're just observing what they see. "The sky is blue, the grass is green, that man is really fat."

If you haven't made "fat" a bad word at home, it's unlikely that your DD has any inkling that "fat" is something that society looks down upon. She's just pointing out something that's unusual to her...like if she saw a girl with a fluroescent pink mohawk. If she shouted, "That girl has the pinkest hair ever!" it's not likely that you'd be upset about that, eh?

In order for her to understand that it's hurtful, you'll have to explain WHY it's hurtful, or it will have no meaning for her. If someone made a comment about how small or skinny she is, it's possible that she wouldn't think twice about it....especially if she IS small and skinny.


I agree.

My boys have gone through phases( around that age) where they comment on people. Tall , short , skinny , fat , wild hair, smells etc. I had my oldest tell a lady she had giant boobies and a lady her hiney was very big







and my DS2 tell a lady she put on to much perfume and was stinky to his nose. They werent trying to be hurtful they were just expressing what they saw. At 3 or 4 they have not learned social graces yet. I didnt repremand them but tried to explain we dont have to say everything out loud


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2xy* 
I think young children don't understand that it's hurtful, because they aren't necessarily making the comment as something negative. They're just observing what they see. "The sky is blue, the grass is green, that man is really fat."

If you haven't made "fat" a bad word at home, it's unlikely that your DD has any inkling that "fat" is something that society looks down upon. She's just pointing out something that's unusual to her...like if she saw a girl with a fluroescent pink mohawk. If she shouted, "That girl has the pinkest hair ever!" it's not likely that you'd be upset about that, eh?

In order for her to understand that it's hurtful, you'll have to explain WHY it's hurtful, or it will have no meaning for her. If someone made a comment about how small or skinny she is, it's possible that she wouldn't think twice about it....especially if she IS small and skinny.

yes, to all of this.

When my 4 yo said, "hey, look at that big fat guy" once in a restaurant, he wasn't saying it to be mean or hurtful, just making an obsrvation. I have since explained to him that it is not an appropriate thing to comment on, and how things like that hurt other's feelings. Even after multiple conversations, I do think it's still goi g to be a hard concept for the average 4 yo to grasp. It's likely they themself haven't been teased or made to feel bad about something physical (for example, do most kids this age care about how they are dressed?) so connecting feelingsto appearances may not sink in for a while.


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## jem1976 (Oct 29, 2007)

Ok I'm breaking my 'lurk only' rule for this one lol

Let me first say I am not a mum, but I am a godmother and an auntie. I am also obese and I always have been - at the moment I wear a size 22 but this can fluctuate.

I have a couple of examples for you the most recent is my 5 year old niece. She asked me to take her to the bathroom while we were having a family meal in a restaurant, she asked me to go in the cubicle with her. Once she'd done her business I thought I might as well go too, when I sat down she asked me why my trousers were so wide my first reaction was to laugh but the look on her face soon stopped me, she was genuinely intrigued. So I explained to her that we're all different shapes and sizes. She nodded and said 'just like some people have different coloured skin'









The other example I have for you was longer ago. I would have been in my early 20s and was working in a shop. This cute little girl came up to me and pulled on my trouser leg, I crouched down to speak to her 'why are you so fat?' was the question that came from her lips. I can honestly say that her mum was much more embarassed than I was and tried to pull her away, but I said the same as I said to my niece and she smiled a dazzling smile at me and skipped away.

I guess what I'm trying to say is to agree with pp who have been saying that children just say whats on their minds. I applaud you momma for being so sensitive towards other peoples feelings, I think what you did in whole foods was just right!


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## BellinghamCrunchie (Sep 7, 2005)

I tell DD, "People are all shapes and sizes and colors. Its so cool that not everyone is exactly the same."

I think responding by saying it would hurt someone's feelings when your child is pointing out the obvious is to also say that there is something wrong with the way the person is.

If I were obese, or different in some fashion, I think it would hurt me more to have parents trying to shush their children rather than have a parent say yes, she is, and its not only alright, diversity is actually kinda neat.


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## Purple*Lotus (Nov 1, 2007)

I am obses and children's comments have never bothered me. In fact there is a certain amount of time it generally takes for my students to notice that I am heavy. It is like it never occured to them for a week or so, then they realize it









They are just making an observation. I had one child say that "She is nice and fat" once. And I had a chuckle. Nice and fat is so much more pleasant to hear than some of the comments adults have made about me









If you want, talk to her in private about it but PLEASE don't make a big scene about it in front of the person. I hate it when parent's do that. And when they make their children apologize for it I just want to crawl under a rock and hide.


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## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

My 5.5 y.o. ds has been going through a phase of pointing out fatness/piercings/tattoes/visible signs of a past stroke/scars/whatever else he strikes him as deviating from the norm. I generally say "beg your pardon" to the object of his rudeness, whisk him along and, once out of earshot, we have our millionth conversation about how You Don't Make Personal Remarks.

That's the big thing for me - getting the filter installed between brain and mouth so that he can NOTICE another person's physical traits without VOCALIZING the observation.


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BellinghamCrunchie* 
I tell DD, "People are all shapes and sizes and colors. Its so cool that not everyone is exactly the same."

I think responding by saying it would hurt someone's feelings when your child is pointing out the obvious is to also say that there is something wrong with the way the person is.

If I were obese, or different in some fashion, I think it would hurt me more to have parents trying to shush their children rather than have a parent say yes, she is, and its not only alright, diversity is actually kinda neat.

I am fat, and I have visible scars, and I used to use a walker; I also have lived in places where I was an ethnic minority, albeit a privileged one. I like the above response for whatever about me gets pointed out by children.


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## ilovemygirl (Sep 8, 2008)

Being an obese person I have a lot to say about this but I don't have much time so I'll just say ...

I've never *ever* heard the word fat used in anything but a negative way when referring to a person. It is not an everyday descriptive word like the sky is sunny or the dog has soft fur. It's a mean word and is used as such in our society. I have a 2.5 year old dd and would never allow her to call anyone that. I would immediately address that it is a mean word to say. I'd also wonder and want to know where she learned/heard it. Later I would also have a talk about diversity as other posters have mentioned.


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## BeachMinded (Jan 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ilovemygirl* 
Being an obese person I have a lot to say about this but I don't have much time so I'll just say ...

I've never *ever* heard the word fat used in anything but a negative way when referring to a person. It is not an everyday descriptive word like the sky is sunny or the dog has soft fur. It's a mean word and is used as such in our society. I have a 2.5 year old dd and would never allow her to call anyone that. I would immediately address that it is a mean word to say. I'd also wonder and want to know where she learned/heard it. Later I would also have a talk about diversity as other posters have mentioned.


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## griffin2004 (Sep 25, 2003)

yep, "fat" is not a positive or even a neutral descriptor 99% of the time; do kids who verbally point out fat people always comment the same way on tall people, skinny people, disabled people, etc? my guess is probably not

with my DD, our practice is that we don't comment on size, shape, or abled-ness in front of the person; if there is a comment DD wants to make or a question she has, we talk about it privately


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Yeah, but I'm trying to "take back the term." Remember when "that's so gay" used to be an insult?


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *griffin2004* 
yep, "fat" is not a positive or even a neutral descriptor 99% of the time; do kids who verbally point out fat people always comment the same way on tall people, skinny people, disabled people, etc? my guess is probably not

Oh yeah, they do.


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## griffin2004 (Sep 25, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lolar2* 
Oh yeah, they do.

well then, that's just a broader landscape of good manners and courtesy that need to be taught


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Sure. It isn't polite in our culture to make loud remarks about other people's bodies. (Not even complimentary ones-- otherwise wolf whistles would be polite.) It takes a while for little kids to learn that, though, and IMO it's best to treat all such remarks equally so they don't learn that one difference is somehow much worse than another.


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## RiverSky (Jun 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ilovemygirl* 
Being an obese person I have a lot to say about this but I don't have much time so I'll just say ...

I've never *ever* heard the word fat used in anything but a negative way when referring to a person. It is not an everyday descriptive word like the sky is sunny or the dog has soft fur. It's a mean word and is used as such in our society. I have a 2.5 year old dd and would never allow her to call anyone that. I would immediately address that it is a mean word to say. I'd also wonder and want to know where she learned/heard it. Later I would also have a talk about diversity as other posters have mentioned.

I agree with this. My first thought was, "where did a 4 year old learn to use the word 'fat'?" My children didn't even know that word until much later and certainly never associated it with a person.

In our family, we do not use words like "fat" or "stupid" to refer to people, ever. One time my daughter said, "Oops, so-and-so used the 's' word", meaning some friend of hers had said, "stupid". (DD is 8, DS is 10, they would never call someone fat)

Anyway, a 4 year old commenting on someone's size is mostly curiosity, I imagine, and can just use a little extra guidance. I have used the "it's great that everyone is unique, different sizes, shapes, and colors."


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *griffin2004* 
yep, "fat" is not a positive or even a neutral descriptor 99% of the time; do kids who verbally point out fat people always comment the same way on tall people, skinny people, disabled people, etc? my guess is probably not

IME, they do. I've heard kids (both mine and other people's) comment/ask about pretty much everything "different" I can think of - fat, skinny, tall, short, hair colour, baldness, assistance dogs, age/wrinkles, wheelchairs, casts, skin colour, scars, skin conditions, missing limbs/digits - you name it.

I'm obese. It's never bothered me when kids make comments about my size. Like some other posters, I _am_ bothered when parents make those comments into some huge, embarrassing scene. I'm fat. Kid notice that. When parents do a huge "hush up", it makes me feel like a leper.


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## lynsage (Jul 13, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zech13_9_goforgold* 
As an obese woman, I know that people (kids, adults, everyone) notice and even treat me differently sometimes. I would prefer that after kids say something about my weight that the parent, guardian, ect would say something like, "Yes, she is, but isn't she wearing a pretty skirt." Or, "Yes, she is, but doesn't she have a nice smile." Or, "Yes, she is, but she looks really friendly."

Or, "Yes she/he is, and s/he is beautiful!" I would take the "buts" out of all of those sentences and turn them to "ands", actually. Just my 2 cents on that.

I went through this when my daughter started making comments to me about my size. I made a point of agreeing that yes, I am fat, and beautiful too.
"Fat" is not a bad word in our house and we have definitely "taken back the word". That said, I don't want her talking about other people that way when it might hurt them, so if she comments to me on someone's size (which she has never done in public, possibly because of the work we have done on this at home)that she sees on TV or in a picture, I say "Yes, that is a beautiful, big lady" or "Yes, that man is a big handsome guy and look at his nice eyes" or something like that. "Big" seems to be a more neutral word.


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## AbbieB (Mar 21, 2006)

I'm fat.

DD has commented on me being fat way more than commenting on other people so we've been able to talk about the subject in a safe environment (as in not in front of strangers) a lot.

I have been teaching my kids that people come in all kinds of shapes and sizes. How cool is that? I also teach her that some people are sensitive to being talked about so it's not polite to comment in front of strangers.

Just today we were checking out at Target and the clerk was, not sure what the current PC word is so please forgive me if I am wrong, a person with dwarfism. DD said to me, "Momma, I have something to whisper to you." Since I knew what was probably coming, I asked her to wait a moment, finished my transaction and moved out of the check out area before we talked. DD whispered to me that the man looked funny and asked why. We were able to continue our conversation in the parking lot and in the car.


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## AbbieB (Mar 21, 2006)

RiverSky said:


> I agree with this. My first thought was, "where did a 4 year old learn to use the word 'fat'?" My children didn't even know that word until much later and certainly never associated it with a person.
> 
> 
> > I think kids would need to live in a bubble to not hear the word or pick up the stigma that goes with it.
> ...


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

A 4 year old could have heard the term from their parents, older siblings, at preschool, on the radio, on TV, etc. Yes, chances are that whomever they picked it up from was using it in a mean way, but at 3/4/5 years old, chances are that they were NOT saying it with malicious intent. Descriptive, yes. Rude to most older kids and adults? Yes.

4 yr old kids are not the most empathetic creatures, because they are 4 years old. Unless they themself have been teased about being fat and have been able to internalize that, I really doubt they will understand the hurt words like that may cause.


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## crl (May 9, 2004)

I recently saw a kindergarten worksheet/homework assignment that was about patterns and they used fat and skinny pumpkins to create the patterns. I am sure those were the verbal descriptions used when talking about the patterns. Seems like a perfectly innocent and appropriate way to use the word fat. Just addressing how would a child know the word issue.

Catherine


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

I'm fat.

There's a world of difference between a child pointing and laughing at my fatness (which rarely happens) and a child snuggling and sighing "oh, you're fat" and a child observing that I am fat (just like she might observe that I have long brown hair). It is what it is, and it's the motivation that counts.

I am teaching my child that bodies are private and we don't comment on other people's bodies. We can compliment on clothes and hairbows and jewelry if we want.


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## griffin2004 (Sep 25, 2003)

In defense of 4 yr olds (not that they need defending), they are new to the rules of social interactions and just getting things figured out. Adults don't have the same excuse.

DD (who is a solid 10th percentiler for height/weight and always has been) and I were checking out at Target last week. The cashier engaged DD in conversation and at one point said to DD, "how can it be that you always eat your veggies and yet you're still so short?" Now THAT was rude!


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

WOW! Thank you all for your thoughtful responses. (I posted this morning, then spent the afternoon at my dad's, and expected to come home to maybe a couple of replies.)

There's a lot to think about there, and I'm definitely glad to hear from so many people who have been on the other end of the comments, as well as those who have dealt with overly observant preschoolers. Seriously, I'm so grateful for all of your responses. I'm definitely leaning towards the idea that Chickabiddy supplied: bodies are private and not to be commented on.

To the poster who wondered where my DD picked up the word fat: I don't know. It's not a word we use at home, because really it would only be used to describe me, and DH knows better!







But, she goes to daycare/preschool because her father and I work fulltime, so she could absolutely have picked it up there.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

I agree with the posters who say it's perfectly normal for children to comment on these things, and to not always think about it before they blurt stuff out.

And I also see the point about not wanting to make "fat" a bad word.

At the same time, I'd feel I was doing my kids a disservice if I didn't help them learn empathy for others' feelings. I think it's great that some here are so self-assured that they don't mind others drawing attention to their personal differences.

But not everyone is "there" yet. I recall how as a teen I had such horrible acne and nothing was helping. I hated all the reminders from well-meaning people who felt compelled to comment on it -- these were reminders to me that this was the first thing people noticed when they looked at me.

Now I am obese, and I'd say that generally-speaking, I understand that children are going to say these things -- but I'll admit that sometimes it still feels like a jab. It makes me feel like obesity is now one of my "defining features" -- like the acne was before.

I understand that these comments are still going to happen from time to time (my own children do it sometimes, too), and I don't blame the parents or anything like that.

It will happen. I'm just saying that I believe in talking with my own children, so they can be aware that just blurting out unusual stuff they notice about other people can sometimes hurt feelings. Curiosity is of course normal -- so I encourage talking with me later if they're curious about something they see.


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## slinden (Aug 31, 2009)

i'm fat. and recovering from almost 15 years of an eating disorder (ED-NOS).

fat does have a negative connotation and a large portion of society uses the word in a negative manner, but body acceptance activists and fat acceptance activists often use the term "fat" to reclaim it as a simple descriptive term.

if you are interested in learning about body acceptance, are suffering from or recovering from an eating disorder, or are interested in learning more about diversity and other viewpoints, might i suggest you follow a few links on this page: Kate Harding's Shapely Prose FAQ


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## MaterPrimaePuellae (Oct 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *griffin2004* 
yep, "fat" is not a positive or even a neutral descriptor 99% of the time; do kids who verbally point out fat people always comment the same way on tall people, skinny people, disabled people, etc? my guess is probably not

I'll just be the 5th or 6th poster to say that yes, they absolutely do! My DD is only 2.5-- she is always watching and always talking about what she sees. She has actually never commented on someone's weight, but she has asked me about walkers, wheel-chairs, pregnancy status ("Does that lady have a baby in her uterus?" Yes, thank goodness), hair color, stature, etc.

I cannot possibly explain to DD and prepare her for all of the variations of human beings that she will see out there. She saw someone with HUGE hair the other day-- I mean, curled and teased and sprayed beyond all reason-- and she just could not get over it. "That lady has huge hair, Mama! Why does she have huge hair?"

If my DD has questions ("What is that man riding in?" "A wheelchair because it helps him move around the store more easily, isn't it neat that when people find it difficult to walk there is equipment that can help them"), I want her to ask them, not dwell on confusion or fear or misapprehension, if that makes sense.

I feel like responding with horror to your daughter saying someone is "fat" is giving power to the term. Responding as other posters have suggested, "Yes, isn't it interesting that people come in all shapes and sizes" really seems like the best approach.


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## *Erin* (Mar 18, 2002)

i would talk to her and tell her something along the lines of what i told my dd when she started to talk about people's physicalities. "yes, people do come in all different sizes, shapes, and colors, too, and it's ok to talk about those differences in private with mama/daddy/whomever but it can hurt people's feelings and make them feel embarressed if you say those things where they can hear you." be positive, and don't shame. kids are smart. she'll get it.


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## Polliwog (Oct 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lolar2* 
Yeah, but I'm trying to "take back the term." Remember when "that's so gay" used to be an insult?

Isn't it still? In what context wouldn't it be?


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Polliwog* 
Isn't it still? In what context wouldn't it be?

It's just not used as often anymore.

And I could see the comment being "not insulting" as a private joke to or from somebody who's openly gay. But then, a lot of insults can be used appopriately in that manner.

Back to the OP: I'd suggest explaining to the 4yo that some people are sensitive about their bodies and don't like it when strangers comment on their appearances. I think that, by age 4, most kids can understand that concept. It's not that "fat" is " a bad word" by itself, but that the very act of commenting on stranger's appearances (outside of direct compliments) isn't appropriate.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BellinghamCrunchie* 
I tell DD, "People are all shapes and sizes and colors. Its so cool that not everyone is exactly the same."

This has been our basic response to any comments. If we feel the comment would be appreciated by the person (most common example is teens with alternative hair styles) we encourage the kids to say it *to* the person.



Bunnyflakes said:


> I am obses and children's comments have never bothered me. In fact there is *a certain amount of time* it generally takes for my students to notice that I am heavy. It is like it never occured to them for a week or so, then they realize it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## LittleBlessings (May 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TinkerBelle* 
Tell her how rude it is, and hurtful. Ask her how she would like it if someone made comments about how small she is, or how skinny she is.

She is old enough to understand that just because you think it, doesn't mean it should be said.


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## lurve (May 5, 2006)

umm...most kids books of "opposites" use the word fat. i know that is where my daughter has seen the word a lot. it is used in society as a descriptive for a lot of things. i agree with the posters that say "People are all shapes and sizes and colors. Its so cool that not everyone is exactly the same."

As the author from "Easy to love hard to discipline" says, it is best to give children the benefit of the doubt and NOT give them evil intentions. A child is pointing out what a child sees. Our jobs are to help paint the fuller picture. But saying the child is being mean...well that's just mean.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Polliwog* 
Isn't it still? In what context wouldn't it be?

I have had gay friends who use this. It's kind of transformed, I think. It means cheesy, tacky, etc.

To the OP, I tell my kids that it's not polite to make comments about people's appearance, at all. I would never turn the comment into something like, "Yes, but isn't she beautiful?" like the pp said, because that's still commenting on someone's appearance, and I feel it's rude. I personally don't even like getting compliments out of the blue from strangers. The times that my ds1 has made comments, I have responded by saying, "Oh really? Well, when we notice how people look, it's not polite to say it. Or you can tell me quietly in my ear so they don't hear."


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

I'm convinced that my 4 yo doesn't think of the word fat as a negative thing at this point b/c earlier he was telling his little brother: "eat all your vegetables so you can grow big and strong... and fatter!"

Really, fatter was said with the same positive tone as big and strong.

Obviously, I don't want him making comments out loud in public about someone's size or appearance in general but I can't be convinced at this point that he is making fun, teasing, or calling someone hurtful names on purpose by his use of the word fat.


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## Bluegoat (Nov 30, 2008)

When my dd points out something that might be socially questionable, we go with the "everybody is different" line. In private I have talked to her a bit about not commenting on people's bodies, but she isn't really reliable about it yet. I don't talk to her about it at the time because I don't want to embarrass her or the person she has commented on. Right now she is very sensitive to making wrong social moves, I think because she is aware they exist, but isn't always able to figure out when they apply.

And comments on bodies are hard. It's ok to say "you look healthy" or "fit" but not "fat". Or to comment on clothes, but not bodies, or good smells but not bad ones. I'm sure it is very confusing to figure out what the rules are at first.

I am not sure I think the word fat is totally awful. I can think of worse, and I'm not sure I can think of better. For an adult it would be considered more polite to say "overweight" in some contexts, but I think that is actually more negative. Same for obese. Maybe large, but that is more general.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

In Anne of Green Gables, Anne is impressed with her new friend Diana's dark-haired beauty -- and also with how she is "ever so much fatter" than Anne is.

"Fat" wasn't always an insult, and as a matter of fact most people still love fat, chunky babies. I wish we could go back to seeing it as a positive at any age.

One friend did tell me that after hugging me, it reminded her of her mom or grandma who had big boobs so she was so soft you just sunk into her. And it made her think of how lucky my children are.

So, yes, I think the softness and squishiness is a beautiful, comforting thing. I just know that some people will still be hurt if my children openly call them "fat" --

So on the one hand I want to communicate how it's wonderful that God made us all so different, but also for them to understand how singled-out some people feel when you call out comments about their fatness, or their big noses, or whatever it is that makes them stand out to you.


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## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
In Anne of Green Gables, Anne is impressed with her new friend Diana's dark-haired beauty -- and also with how she is "ever so much fatter" than Anne is.

"Fat" wasn't always an insult, and as a matter of fact most people still love fat, chunky babies. I wish we could go back to seeing it as a positive at any age.

The word was also used in a positive manner in _The Secret Garden_. The children were happy that the exercise and fresh air were giving them their appetites back, and that they were getting fatter.


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## gcgirl (Apr 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zech13_9_goforgold* 
As an obese woman, I know that people (kids, adults, everyone) notice and even treat me differently sometimes. I would prefer that after kids say something about my weight that the parent, guardian, ect would say something like, "Yes, she is, but isn't she wearing a pretty skirt." Or, "Yes, she is, but doesn't she have a nice smile." Or, "Yes, she is, but she looks really friendly."

I think that kids are always going to notice differences between themselves and others. Even if they don't speak what they think, they still need to be taught to think well of others. I think the way to counter society's focus on bodies is not to ignore it and to try to shut them up. I find kids whispering about me more annoying than if they just spoke it aloud. I don't have a disease! But, I am fat. If a kid in my hearing said something about my weight, I would tell them the truth. "Yes, I am fat (or whatever word they use) and you're thin, but that's ok. People come in different colors and different sizes. It's all just part of the beautiful creation God has made." Ok, so I'd probably say that more at church and not so much at the grocery store.

Or, I might say, "Yes, I am fat, but I'm also loved."

If I'm at the grocery store, I might say, "Yes, I am fat, and my favorite foods are grapes and strawberries." I think kids need to learn that not all fat people constantly eat junk food (not like TV says). Just like the fact that not all thin people make themselves throw up or refuse to eat (like in "Mean Girls).

So, to sum up: kids are honest. Let's not make them dishonest. Teach them to think well of people.

Very nice post, thank you, and along the lines of what I was thinking. Who knows what a kid will notice to comment on anyway that an adult wouldn't. I don't think I've ever taken offense at a comment a child has made, and for the reasons you outlined, I wouldn't. My mom's obese, and guess what? She KNOWS it. She also wouldn't think twice about a kid saying something about it. (It's a little different with her high school students, however.)


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## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

I have come across quite a few early childhood books that contain the word "fat" and use it in a neutral (not negative) way. So a young child using the word could completely not intend for it to be critical.

Also, young kids will imitate the use of words in the way they have heard them used, without fully realizing that using the word that way toward someone would usually hurt the other person's feelings. They can say it in a way that sounds awful, but totally not realize that it sounds hurtful at all. They are just imitating.

I think it's important to assume a child this age does not intend to be hurtful, and give them information about the word or phrase and how it can be interpreted by other people, without any shame attached to the explanation. For this word, I would want our DS to know that people come in all shapes and sizes, and they are all okay. But also that many people who are large (or small, thin, tall, short, etc) do not feel happy about it, and if someone says something about their body shape, they might feel sad to hear it. So it is most polite to keep our thoughts about other people's bodies and how they look to ourselves. I would also want him to understand that unfortunately sometimes people say the word "fat" to or about another person just to be mean, so it's not something we want to go around saying about people.

I want to give him this information about this word and others as well, because when I was young, nobody was giving me this type of information. I experimented with saying some things that were hurtful, when never meant them that way at all, and I still feel sad about it. I would much rather he learn by being given explanations about saying things that are often considered to be hurtful, than have to find it out by accidentally hurting someone's feelings.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gcgirl* 
My mom's obese, and guess what? She KNOWS it. She also wouldn't think twice about a kid saying something about it. (It's a little different with her high school students, however.)

Which is exactly why I don't think we should make a big deal when our children make these open observations, or assume negative intent on their part -- but I still think there's a need for us to gently talk with our children about how it feels to some folks to have their physical traits pointed out.

So they start learning to filter their thoughts, and aren't just blurting them out when they're teenagers.

Maybe some young people will figure this out on their own -- but I don't think it hurts to be talking about it anyway.


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## InMediasRes (May 18, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llp34* 
I have come across quite a few early childhood books that contain the word "fat" and use it in a neutral (not negative) way. So a young child using the word could completely not intend for it to be critical.

_Some are thin and some are fat
The fat one has a yellow hat_

I don't know very many kids who haven't read One Fish, Two Fish.

A child looking at the anthropomorphized fish might assume that this is an acceptable descriptive term for a person.

Anyhow, I'm in the "we don't make comments about peoples bodies" camp.


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## Just1More (Jun 19, 2008)

Haven't read all the replies, I've GOT to go to bed.

But, I tell my dd4 that "if she wants to talk about someone else, we need to go it when it's just us." She knows the difference between "talking about someone else" (like the man at the store today who didn't have teeth) and saying, loudly, "Mama, I NEED one of THOSE dresses that girl has on!" One's a compliment, one's a concern and they make her feel differently inside before she says them. When she says something that isn't appropriate I say something positive like, "Well, just like flowers, God made people different. He likes lots of different things; he thinks different is beautiful." Then, when I can get us off alone (sooner rather than later, but no unneccessarily fast), I say, "Talking about x is better when we are by ourselves...did you have any questions about that?"

But, if ds, who is 2.5 almost, said, "Mama...look! It's REALLY big and FAAAAAATTTTTTTTTTT!" (He says that excitedly about all sorts of things...like raisins and water towers, mostly). I wouldn't blink. And I think that most people don't when a comment is obviously well-intentioned by a child.


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## madskye (Feb 20, 2006)

I would just bring it back to manners and explain that it's not polite to comment on peoples appearance. You can up the ante with the idea that who people are on the inside is more important than what they look like. Are they kind, are they fun, are they a good friend...


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## Carma (Feb 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ilovemygirl* 
Being an obese person I have a lot to say about this but I don't have much time so I'll just say ...

I've never *ever* heard the word fat used in anything but a negative way when referring to a person. It is not an everyday descriptive word like the sky is sunny or the dog has soft fur. It's a mean word and is used as such in our society. I have a 2.5 year old dd and would never allow her to call anyone that. I would immediately address that it is a mean word to say. I'd also wonder and want to know where she learned/heard it. Later I would also have a talk about diversity as other posters have mentioned.

This is also what I was thinking. My first language is not English, so I was not entirely sure. My then 3 year old DD one time called someone a giant, when there was a very obese man in the pool with us. I don't think she knows the word 'fat' yet (she just turned 4), but I don't speak English with her (she learns English mainly in daycare).

Carma


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
So they start learning to filter their thoughts, and aren't just blurting them out when they're teenagers.

IME, the teenagers who are talking about other people's weight aren't merely "blurting it out". They're being quite deliberately mean. When you've got someone in tears, and you're continuing to chant about fat whales, it's not because nobody ever told you it could hurt someone's feelings, yk? (I wasn't particularly fat as a teen, but I _was_ in the "could stand to lose 10 pounds" _and_ the "big frame" category, so I "looked" fat. A certain percentage of kids were brutal, and the way they treated the couple of kids who were seriously overweight - like to the extent that health problems were probably already in existence - was beyond appalling.)


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## Funny Face (Dec 7, 2006)

Haven't had a chance to read responses but went through this (am going through this) with dd (3.5) right now.

I agree that she doesn't understand that calling someone 'fat' might be hurtful and when I told dd it wasn't nice (although she yelled 'That guy is REALLY BIG!') she kind of didn't understand but we're working on it.

In the mean time I've gotten lots of books about how people are different. We got a book that showed people of all different sizes and colors in the nude (cartoon drawings). We've also got books about people with different disabilities. My hope is that I can provide her with information and a healthy context for her observations so she is less likely to notice someone's differences (because in a way she is used to them and understands they are normal).


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## Funny Face (Dec 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SactoMommy* 
I don't know very many kids who haven't read One Fish, Two Fish.

A child looking at the anthropomorphized fish might assume that this is an acceptable descriptive term for a person.

Anyhow, I'm in the "we don't make comments about peoples bodies" camp.

I agree. We have a book on apples that talks about a 'big, fat, juicy apple' and I don't think a child can tell on their own that 'fat' is a good thing for objects but hurtful for people.


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## mommajb (Mar 4, 2005)

When dd1 was about 4 we were in a bathroom stall when she commented, "Wow Momma! Your butt sure is big."







The woman in the next stall snorted and laughed so hard I think she hurt herself. I just told dd that my butt was bigger than hers and so were all my other parts.

Over time I have tried to teach them that we only say compliments out loud. People know when they are fat, skinny, bald, old, have only one leg, wear glasses etc. and don't need to be told. What they don't know is how much you like something about them so this is what we talk about. If they have a question they should ask me quietly.

I agree that as children get older they can certainly think about how they are affected by others comments. This comes with time and experience. The optimist in me thinks most adults understand that very young children are just trying to make sense of the world.


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## fizzymom (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BellinghamCrunchie* 
I tell DD, "People are all shapes and sizes and colors. Its so cool that not everyone is exactly the same."

This is exactly what we say.


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## soontobeamama (Sep 8, 2009)

I just wanted to weigh in (sorry, couldn't resist). I get why the parents go the "I don't want to make fat a bad word, in my family we'll recognize that everyone comes in different sizes" camp, but I have a cautionary tale about that attitude.

i used to babysit for a family (of all very thin people, by the way) how were raising their kids with that awareness, and their four-year-old daughter, who wasn't incredibly sympathetic or thoughtful even for a 4 year old, would point out people's size ALL THE TIME. But only "fat" people, never thin ones. Every time we passed a large person, she would exclaim LOUDLY, "Wow, is that person fat!" or "Boy, that's the fattest person I ever saw."

Even people who were only marginally fat (like myself, I wear a size 16 and could stand to loose a few pounds, but I have never gotten comments about my size from any other small children) would be commented on by her as if they too were the fattest people in the world. And that can *really* hurt, when you're just walking down the street, minding your own business, and a kid exclaims loudly how fat you are when you don't generally think of yourself that way.

The kicker for me was always how her parents would respond when she did this (and I only ever heard their response when she did this to me, which she did OFTEN). They would never shush her or say that it wasn't nice to comment on people's bodies, they would say, "Yes, isn't it wonderful that people come in all different sizes." Coming from her size 2 mom, this really used to make me steam. Easy for you to say, I'd always think. And she'd always take ME aside later, not her daughter, and say that she hoped I didn't take it personally, they just didn't want her to think of "fat' as a bad word she couldn't say.

Now, I know the child is not trying to be cruel. But it's almost that in their desire to allow their children freedom to comment on people and not make them feel a word is "bad," they're willing to allow their children to consistently make hurtful comments towards other people. And regardless of what the mom thought about the word or what she was trying to teacher her daughter, the way she allowed her daughter to use the word was hurtful.

And like I said, I always thought it was telling that her daughter never commented on thin people. Clearly, whether they are aware of it or not, they are teaching her that thin people are "normal" and don't require commenting on and fat people are "abnormal."


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## Spinderella (Oct 20, 2009)

It's amazing that I found this forum/thread when something like this happened to me today.

I am obese and I do get embarrassed when children call out that I'm fat. However, only when the parents do nothing to _educate_ their children why it is disrespectful to yell loudly in a public place that someone is fat.

Today, I was in a restaurant with my husband (who is not obese, nor fat) and a child with his grandparents were eating in a booth across from us. Half-way through out meal, the child loudly exclaimed, "WHY IS THAT LADY SO FAT?" They did nothing. To which the child exclaimed again, "WHY ARE HER ARMS SO BIG? WHY DOES SHE LOOK THAT WAY? WHY DOES IS SHE A LADY? etc..." It was sooo embarrassing and the grandparents did _nothing_.

I ignored the little one as best I could, and I believe he looked to be around 3 or 4 -- but eventually the grandparents asked him to quiet down. However, not once did they make a comment about what he said and explain to him anything.

Now, I know that children are curious and observant, and I've had my share of handling these situations in the past. Children have every right to ask a valid question. To which I generally reply, "It's just the way I'm built. Why are you so small? Why is the world so big?" Or something to that effect. Generally, the children say, "I don't know, I'm just little!" And it dawns on them! We're all different! And they usually giggle and move along.

But I do believe that we need to explain to our children that it is no different then a child yelling or saying very boldly, "Why is that lady black? Why does she have eyes different from me?" We need to educate our children more that not only are people of different race and that it is normal and part of being in this big, great world, but that they are different sizes, shapes and personalities.

For the parents that ignore their child and what they are asking about in these situations, it really doesn't help either party involved. We need to be more proactive in childhood development and how they perceive the world. It's too bad the grandparents at this venue today missed that opportunity.

Thank you, OP for bringing this discussion up and I plan on coming back as we are planning for our first addition to our family very soon.


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## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Spinderella* 
I do believe that we need to explain to our children that it is no different then a child yelling or saying very boldly, "Why is that lady black? Why does she have eyes different from me?" We need to educate our children more that not only are people of different race and that it is normal and part of being in this big, great world, but that they are different sizes, shapes and personalities.

It's normal, but shouldn't be commented on? I don't get it.

If all our differences are normal and okay, why do we need to shush the kids?


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## Spinderella (Oct 20, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2xy* 
It's normal, but shouldn't be commented on? I don't get it.

If all our differences are normal and okay, why do we need to shush the kids?

I don't think we need to shush our kids (well, unless they're screaming in a public place -- they should use a quieter voice), but I do think that something should be said to explain to them how saying things like that aren't respectful.

Like someone up-thread said, it's about manners and children are never too young to learn them and to respect others around them.


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

I was thinking about this thread this morning as I read a book to my kid, particularly about the sentiments that there is no way for a child to learn the word 'fat' unless it is being used as an insult and that fat is always a bad way to be described. Here is a short passage:

"Oh, baby, won't you dance with me?
Little baby, bouncing on my knee,
Wave your hands and shake your feet.
Oooh, baby, you're so sweet.
Of all the babies you're the fattest one,
You big-leg women are a load of fun."

It goes on from there about how he loves dancing with his little girl and she's the cutest, most wonderful little girl ever and he hopes she will always think of him as she grows up. It's a sweet book.









Taken from _Daddy's Girl_ by Robin Preiss Glasser.


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## cattmom (Apr 6, 2009)

I was making a big fuss over a wiggling little Labrador the other day (you are the fattest little puppy! what a good boy you are!) when my daughter sternly reminded me that fat is a bad word and I shouldn't say it. I'm glad for this thread, because I obviously need to deliver a more nuanced definition. She's going to hear fat all the time directed toward animals.

I think we're probably safer if I can just teach her not to make any personal comments, as someone mentioned, because I'm teaching her social skills for life, not just for quickly forgiven preschooler remarks.

My current horror story involves hair. My husband and his brothers are always needling each other about baldness. Last week in a store my child delightedly announced that the clerk was bald. "Mama, that man is bald!" I was prepared for fat, but I was not prepared for bald. The clerk was helping another client, so I was hoping he didn't hear it. I told her she was being rude but the space was so small that I thought anything more would just make it more likely that the clerk would hear.

I think some of these preschooler remarks are the result of innocence and newfound vocabulary. But I'll also agree with the PPs that some of it (like my daughter's interest in baldness) come from ingrained prejudices that people adopt about appearances. I see them in myself. The other day my way was blocked by a large pale woman with stringy hair and no makeup. I thought unkind things about her intelligence, even though I am also a large pale woman with stringy hair and no makeup. A few moments later, I ended up in a long conversation with her and she turned out to be delightful, funny, friendly and smart. Great. But even though I didn't insult her verbally, what does it say about my attitude that I felt an initial prejudice toward someone who looks just like me?


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