# Do you allow you kids to ride a school bus?



## mommy2two babes (Feb 7, 2007)

I mean assuming that they don't ride one everyday to school.
So far for my DDs JK class has taken 2 bus trips a good distance from the school for class trips. Both times I have driven her because I don't want her on the road without a 5 pt harness.
Just curious what others views on this are.
BTW these kids are 4-5 yo.


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## TheGirls (Jan 8, 2007)

She's probably safer in a school bus (which is designed to keep kids safe without seatbelts) than in your car in a 5pt harness. The bus keeps kids safe using compartmentalization - the tall padded seats protect the child in an impact. Also, busses are less likely to get in an accident in the first place (being big and yellow helps, also they're driven by professionals). And due to sheer size, a school bus is unlikely to be significantly damaged in a crash.


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

AJ rode the bus first at 5yo, he was 45# though. In pre-k here the schools require harnessed seats so at 4 he used those and so will Evan this year. I think technically compartmentalization is supposed to be for kids 4yo and 40# and up.


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## Julia24 (Jun 28, 2004)

Yeah - short of a school bus falling off a cliff, they're really incredibly safe - even though it's still unnerving for me to think about her being all willy nilly in the bus.

In fact, a couple miles from our house a stopped school bus on a county highway was hit at 55mph by a MACK truck and nobody died. One little boy was even exiting the bus and was thrown, but he was thankfully okay. (and the bus didn't even flip!) That's not to say in this worst case scenerio that some kids weren't seriously injured - they were, but everyone is fully recovered. Just can't think of a bus accident much worse than that..so that makes me feel better.


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## mommy2two babes (Feb 7, 2007)

TheGirls said:


> also they're driven by professionals.
> The thing is that I could take a week long or so course here and become a professional bus driver. They require a medical and a crimal record check.
> We had some pretty scary bus drivers when I was in school including one who lost it on ice and sent the bus sliding sideways down the road.
> Glad to hear that they are safe but lets just say I am glad DDs school is close walking distance.


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## jillmamma (Apr 11, 2005)

DS started riding the special ed bus every day to special needs preschool at age 5. I had no problem with it, and will have no problem with DD riding the bus when she starts K either.


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## Mrsboyko (Nov 13, 2007)

My DD's day care had a field trip when she was just shy of 2. Everyone went on the bus, except her. I drove her . I can not understand how they would manage a bunch of 2-4 y/o on a bus, keeping everyone seated and such, w/o seatbelts of any kind. I did ask, there weren't any. I guess it is a Wisconsin thing.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

I'd rather see my kids on a school bus than in a car.


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## Peony (Nov 27, 2003)

I agree that buses are safer then cars, I wouldn't have an issue with my kids riding a bus. When I was a teen, the school bus I was on got ran off the highway going 55-60 by a semi. No one was injured, oddly enough the truck that the semi truck plowed into was driven by my father going to work, and his truck didn't fare so much (he survived).


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## KristaDJ (May 30, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TheGirls* 
She's probably safer in a school bus (which is designed to keep kids safe without seatbelts) than in your car in a 5pt harness. The bus keeps kids safe using compartmentalization - the tall padded seats protect the child in an impact. Also, busses are less likely to get in an accident in the first place (being big and yellow helps, also they're driven by professionals). And due to sheer size, a school bus is unlikely to be significantly damaged in a crash.

School bus drivers where I grew up were nuts....seriously. Why on earth would anyone trust someone to drive well just b/c they completed a course? Some of our bus drivers were quite obviously on drugs and drove very dangerously when I was in school. I've seen videos of kids being thrown into the air on buses and I've personally seen bus drivers drive off with children standing up looking for a seat. The seats are designed to be safe for children sitting down but I can remember plenty of kids standing up on the bus or kneeling in the seats. There were also many many times that all the kids from my bus had to ride on another bus to get home and we didn't fit. Some kids had to sit in other's laps or squat or perch on the edge of the seats. So to answer the OP, I would NEVER let my children on a bus, I don't care if it's bigger and bright and driven by a "professional."


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## rhiOrion (Feb 17, 2009)

I don't have any kids, and I doubt my dog or cat are going to need to ride a bus anytime soon.

But, when we were little we never ever ever rode a bus to and from school because of the lack of seat belts. My parents are very big on seat belts (as am I, as a result).

But we were allowed to ride them on field trips, because my parents both worked and couldn't have taken us on all of the many field trips, and even if they could, wouldn't have wanted to single us out like that (I was already a weirdo, would've been horrible to me to make me even weirder!).

But in general we never did, and I had been planning to do the same thing with my kids. But now you guys have given me something else to research. I'd never even considered that busses were safer than cars!

But then the PP has a point with the idea that kids don't always behave properly.

What to do, what to do!?


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## Amylcd (Jun 16, 2005)

Sure they ride the bus. They are much more likely to be in an accident with me (I average about 1 _serious_ accident per year - my fault about 50% of the time)


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## Amberenergy (Mar 10, 2009)

Luckily we live within walking distance of our school (which I adore btw) but when they've gone on field trips to the pumpkin patch etc. I go with and will ride the bus.
I grew up riding on the bus alot and am still alive. (I'm talking four years one hour and a half each way to a magnet school in L.A. on freeways and such.)


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

No, I make her walk a couple of miles and cross a busy street by herself to get to school.

LOL I kid.

Yeah she rides the bus! It's safer than me driving her and it's safer than walking.


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## Cinder (Feb 4, 2003)

field trips with their class-yes, to school every day with k-5th graders-no...

I think busses are safer than cars, so not having a seatbelt doesn't bother me (and in ann arbor kids under 30lbs were put into a zip harness on the bus, since my daughter was 29lbs at 5, she would be harnessed for field trips) but I remember the stuff I learned on the school bus, from just words I had no reason to hear to dropping acid for the first time (this was pre-school-12th grade on the bus) and I don't want my kids exposed to that yet. But, it doesn't matter, cause my kids both go to focus schools (different ones) and bussing isn't provided for going to and from school.


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## RiverTam (May 29, 2009)

Yes, my kids can ride the bus.

I'm an attorney and about 5 years ago I represented a school bus company in an accident case. A mini-van hit the side of the bus doing about 60. 5 people in the mini-van died. The kids on the bus were jostled around and had a few bumps and red marks. The kids weren't belted in. They were checked out at the hospital and sent home. None of the kids had permanent injuries or even much soreness the next day.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

I didn't read any other responses so I am sure I am repeating others but yes, they ride the bus and I am confident that it's safer than me driving them every day (especially with my driving record










)

Their school is 2 miles away, you can get there almost entirely by dirt road (except crossing one paved street), the bus goes slowly, and is able to bypass the whole drop-off, pick-up circle madness in the school parking lot (which, to me looks dangerous despite the staff in orange directing traffic).

I am very, very, very grateful my kids ride the bus, it picks them up from the corner of out street and it means I don't have to get myself and the 2 LO's ready to take them. They love it and have never complained. In fact, a couple times when we at the school for various events and were ready to drive the kids home my DD got upset and begged to ride the bus.

If I ever felt they were in any danger, or unhappy with the situation I would drive them, but for now I LOVE that there is a busing option.


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## RiverSky (Jun 26, 2005)

Never.

I'm way nervous about it. First, I don't think school bus drivers are necessarily safe drivers at all. Every single year in our smallish city, at the beginning of the year, quite a few of the youngest kids get dropped off at the wrong stop, in the wrong gated community, etc. It's not even always in the news but I have a few friends who are or have been teachers here, and oh, the stories I have heard. The principals never seem to really care about 5 year olds being lost for an hour, because they were dropped off in the wrong community, entirely.

Next, at least once a year in this county and the neighboring county, a bus driver or two is arrested for sexual assault or molestation on the child(ren) on their buses. I do NOT trust strangers to have such control over my young children, no way!

And yeah, all of those hidden camera videos of what sometimes goes on on buses is enough to scare the heck out of me.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

I drove my DD too and from school this past year but if they did a field trip I did allow the bus ride. They do have harness on it though. Next year I'm considering letting her ride the bus to school in the mornings.

Deanna


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## amandaleigh37 (Jul 13, 2006)

I was a bus driver when I worked for a preschool (I was only licensed to drive the shorter buses that we had, not the huge ones). There's a bit of controversy about seat belts on buses though. The seats themselves are very effective at keeping children safe in a crash, but the children have to be SEATED correctly. Since we were driving preschoolers (3-4 year olds), we did have belts on our buses. It was the only way to keep the children sitting correctly in their seats. But then there is the issue of an emergency, and having to likely use a belt cutter to get children out quickly who cannot unbuckle themselves...

Now that I'm a parent myself, I totally understand not trusting the driver who is a stranger. While there is a bit more involved than "a week long course", and the buses themselves are VERY safe to ride in, I'd be more worried about knowing who was responsible for my child during that time. Like someone else mentioned... young children being let off at different stops... bus drivers who abused children, etc... I'm sure (well rather, I HOPE) these things aren't common but those would concern me a lot more than the actual safety of the transportation itself.


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## Cinder (Feb 4, 2003)

ohh yea, and I don't trust bus drivers in general, but I do trust my kids teachers, and they are on the bus with the kids for field trips, along with multiple parent chaperones.


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## mamabeca (Oct 3, 2004)

My older dd is almost 11, she has ridden on a bus to and from school since 1st grade. No seat belts. My little one is 4, and has had his own carseat on the bus, which I installed. I felt ok w/that. I completely understand why people get skeeved out by busses, but ime the drivers have been amazing - they care about the kids, they are switched on, and they do a great job. We get the bus drivers gifts equal to those of the teachers. She loves the bus, though perhaps she would like it better if I drove her both ways - 25 min each way it's not happening. I think you have to make the right decision for yourself, given how your own circumstances play out.


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## mommy2two babes (Feb 7, 2007)

I guess even if not for the bus I woudn't allow her to go on a field trip without me anyways.
I thought I was maybe just being paraniod, but on the recent class trip I went it was confirmed for me.
All of the parent volunteers were given 2-3 kids to take around the zoo on our own.
Some of the things that I witnessed these 4 and 5 Yo doing while they were supposedly being supervised was downright scary to me.

Also I am curious as to what kind of training the PP had to take to drive a bus. I would imagine it varies greatly. My understanding of it here is that they take a week long course through the bus companies and take a driving test to get thier licince to drive that class of vehicle.


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## amandaleigh37 (Jul 13, 2006)

Quote:

Also I am curious as to what kind of training the PP had to take to drive a bus. I would imagine it varies greatly. My understanding of it here is that they take a week long course through the bus companies and take a driving test to get thier licince to drive that class of vehicle.
If I remember correctly (it was a few years ago), I had to have an initial physical and drug test. Then a 2-day training through the state, along with a written test to get my "permit". Once I had that, I had to train with an instructor for a certain amount of hours... I can't remember how many. But I had to document X hrs of riding with him and X hours of driving with him. And he taught me all about the bus, how to do inspections, everything I'd need for the test. Then once you pass the actual driving test, you still have to do yearly safety trainings through the state. As well as yearly physicals and drug tests (I believe the drug tests may have been required by our agency and not the state? I can't remember.) But it wasn't like you could just decide to be a bus driver & a week later be driving kids around. At least not from my experience







This was in Indiana.

(And our agency also held extra safety meetings & trainings once a month for the bus drivers - though obviously that's not required and I don't know how public schools do it.)


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## SandraS (Jan 18, 2007)

Absolutely.


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## Brisen (Apr 5, 2004)

Just out of curiosity -- how common are seatbelts on school buses? I always thought school buses never had them, but I'm not sure.


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## MacKinnon (Jun 15, 2004)

My DD will start riding the bus in the fall. Buses are the safest mode of transportation on the road. Period. You are WAY more likely to get into a crash than your child is to be on a bus. Now, preschoolers, short buses, etc. is another story. There is more that goes into that discussion. School-agers? No debate, buses are the safest option. It's getting ON and OFF the bus that you have to be careful of!


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## Phantaja (Oct 10, 2006)

I wouldn't but mostly because I have a personal thing against them. I fell asleep and got left on one as a little girl.


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## mommy2two babes (Feb 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amandaleigh37* 
If I remember correctly (it was a few years ago), I had to have an initial physical and drug test. Then a 2-day training through the state, along with a written test to get my "permit". Once I had that, I had to train with an instructor for a certain amount of hours... I can't remember how many. But I had to document X hrs of riding with him and X hours of driving with him. And he taught me all about the bus, how to do inspections, everything I'd need for the test. Then once you pass the actual driving test, you still have to do yearly safety trainings through the state. As well as yearly physicals and drug tests (I believe the drug tests may have been required by our agency and not the state? I can't remember.) But it wasn't like you could just decide to be a bus driver & a week later be driving kids around. At least not from my experience







This was in Indiana.

(And our agency also held extra safety meetings & trainings once a month for the bus drivers - though obviously that's not required and I don't know how public schools do it.)

No you are right, you can't decide to be a bus driver and the next week be driving kids around. Before you do any training you have to do a criminal record check and a physical ( no drug test) they have a whole new crop of drivers start every year because its not exactly a great paying job most people stay with. They do training with them all at the same time.
Pretty much if you don't have a criminal record and you pass you can drive a school bus.


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

My Dh took a week long class and can now drive a semi. Other people learn to drive semis w/out taking classes and they're on the road all the time w/ us. Whether it's a week long or a month long, there is a class and tests they have to pass. What kinds of things would you like them to go through? My DH doesn't drive a semi now, but can drive a trash truck and does every once in a while when he's short a driver, but he has to go to a yearly physical and drug test and he's subjected to random drug tests through the year. If he ever gets caught going over the speed limit 15 or mo mph, even in his own vehicle, he loses his CDL and his job. People who are responsible and need these jobs aren't going to screw up, sadly like any other job there are screwed up people.







My grandfather drove the handicapped bus after he retired from teaching, he loved it.


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## Tizzy (Mar 16, 2007)

Ouch! Some of these generalized comments are pretty brutal!
I'm a school bus driver and it took a lot more than a day or two of training.

I had a physical done (including blood and urine test), criminal check plus driving record check, wrote the written exam then spent 40 hours doing training. Plus I have to have my First Aid/CPR including infants and children (above and beyond what is standard) and a minimum of 8 hours every calendar year of additional safety training.

It's not like the bus drivers are completely random, they are usually part of a company who supervises and regulates everything. There's nothing to stop a parent from calling the bus company directly to voice a complaint.

If you have a well-behaved kid, they are much safer on the bus. It's the children whose parents don't enforce the rules that I worry about. The ones who don't understand that it's just like their parents car - you DO NOT stand up, move around, jump over seats, lay on the seat or floor etc. are the ones who cause the most trouble and are the biggest hazards not only to themselves, but also to the other students in the case of an accident.

Statistically school busses are much safer than the other vehicles on the road.
When you think about it, anyone who drives professionally has logged more hours behind the wheel and thus has more experience with the various situations presented along with weather conditions. I feel 10X safer in the bus in a blizzard, pouring rain, freezing rain and even fog because of the size of the vehicle, how high up I sit, the number of mirrors I have available and how famaliar I am with that vehicle. Overall, I feel safer and I feel that my children are safer on the bus.


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## mediafreak (Jun 8, 2009)

apart from the points discussed here that school buses (with their color coding and relatively mammoth stature) are less prone to accidents, my more memorable experience of riding in a school bus would be the social interactions I gained with my classmates and seatmates. might be such a trivial thing, but it meant a lot to me during the day.


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## mommy2two babes (Feb 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thepeach80* 
Whether it's a week long or a month long, there is a class and tests they have to pass. What kinds of things would you like them to go through?

It isn't so much that I would like them to go through any more per say.
I was simply commenting on a PP's comment that they are professional drivers. I was simply trying to say that aside from a course and tests they are still not that different than the rest of us.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little grey mare* 
Ouch! Some of these generalized comments are pretty brutal!
I'm a school bus driver and it took a lot more than a day or two of training.

I had a physical done (including blood and urine test), criminal check plus driving record check, wrote the written exam then spent 40 hours doing training. Plus I have to have my First Aid/CPR including infants and children (above and beyond what is standard) and a minimum of 8 hours every calendar year of additional safety training.

It's not like the bus drivers are completely random, they are usually part of a company who supervises and regulates everything. There's nothing to stop a parent from calling the bus company directly to voice a complaint.
Sorry that it has come across this way. I looked into becomeing a bus driver in Ontario a few years ago. Essentially the thing you listed above were exactly what I said was required.
While most (all?) school bus drivers in Ontario are employees of a company that doesn't mean much. Every summer when I see multiple ads for bus companies looking for drivers it can get a bit random.

There are some absolute wonderful bus drivers out there as well as some I wouldn't leave my child with for an instant.

If you have a well-behaved kid, they are much safer on the bus. It's the children whose parents don't enforce the rules that I worry about. The ones who don't understand that it's just like their parents car - you DO NOT stand up, move around, jump over seats, lay on the seat or floor etc. are the ones who cause the most trouble and are the biggest hazards not only to themselves, but also to the other students in the case of an accident.

Statistically school busses are much safer than the other vehicles on the road.
When you think about it, anyone who drives professionally has logged more hours behind the wheel and thus has more experience with the various situations presented along with weather conditions. I feel 10X safer in the bus in a blizzard, pouring rain, freezing rain and even fog because of the size of the vehicle, how high up I sit, the number of mirrors I have available and how famaliar I am with that vehicle. Overall, I feel safer and I feel that my children are safer on the bus.

At 4YO I don't know that I could trust my DD to sit still and safely for a long bus trip


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy2two babes* 
It isn't so much that I would like them to go through any more per say.
I was simply commenting on a PP's comment that they are professional drivers. I was simply trying to say that aside from a course and tests they are still not that different than the rest of us.[/COLOR]

You could say that about tons of jobs. Professional lots of things are no different except for training and tests.


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## rachelsmama (Jun 20, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mediafreak* 
apart from the points discussed here that school buses (with their color coding and relatively mammoth stature) are less prone to accidents, my more memorable experience of riding in a school bus would be the social interactions I gained with my classmates and seatmates. might be such a trivial thing, but it meant a lot to me during the day.

Sadly, my most memorable experiences on schoolbuses were the "social interactions" too. It's really hard to escape a bully on a school bus, and since the driver is rightfully interested in staying on the road there can be a LOT going on that doesn't get noticed, including some pretty dangerous stuff. I would consider sending my kid if there were adults on the bus to supervise the kids, but I would hesitate if it was just the driver.

The lack of seatbelts is a non-issue to me since buses don't need them.


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## TheGirls (Jan 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy2two babes* 
I was simply commenting on a PP's comment that they are professional drivers. I was simply trying to say that aside from a course and tests they are still not that different than the rest of us.

I'm that PP. And I continue to maintain that they are professional drivers. IE they are people who drive for a living. I didn't say they were driving gods or anything.









I'm a professional engineer. I took some courses and some tests. Otherwise I'm just like the rest of you. My father is a professional painter. He paints for a living. Never took a course or a test in it, but he had an apprenticeship where he learned the trade.

So, someone who takes a course in bus driving, then trains in bus driving, then takes a bus driving test, then drives a bus every day isn't a professional bus driver I don't know what to call them?

People who drive more are better at it. Bus drivers drive more than most of us, and they have more driving training than most of us. That means, on average, they tend to be better bus drivers. That's all I'm saying. I'm sure there are some awful ones out there too. That doesn't mean all bus drivers are terrible. Perhaps those of you whose schools are hiring such awful bus drivers should take it up with your local school boards?


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Aside from a course and tests, I'm not all that different from anyone else, but I get to teach people about carseats.

Kids are eight times safer in a big yellow bus. I am glad my daughter rides one to school.


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## mommy2two babes (Feb 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
You could say that about tons of jobs. Professional lots of things are no different except for training and tests.

Yes I agree completely. It doesn't neccesarily mean though that I feel comfortable with my babies being with them. I guess the my point about some bus drivers, one in particular that I knew was just doing it for some extra cash. Not something she wanted to do. Basically she was making $ 8.00 per hour for B/A school runs worked another job at night where I worked with her.
She complained about the kids using derogatory language and smoked pot on a regular basis. She would not be someone that I would want driving my child to school. If she was my childs bus driver I probably wouldn't have a clue that she was like that. I guess what I am trying to say is that it is not a great career that you take alot of training and work doing it for the rest of your life. Even at that though a doctor is someone with lots of training but I would never leave my child alone with one.
Sorry to carry on, not trying to make anyone angry. I am I guess just trying to sort out my own issues and feelings about it.


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## amandaleigh37 (Jul 13, 2006)

It seems like there is a big difference between trusting a bus driver to properly and safely operate the vehicle and get it from point A to point B, and a bus driver as a babysitter.

I have no experience with public schools and buses... I drove for a preschool and I was also one of the teachers who was with the kids all day. So a different situation obviously. But because our kids were so young, there was always at least one adult on the bus in addition to me. I understand that's not the case with say, kingergarteners riding the "big bus" at regular schools. That part I totally understand.


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

I didn't realize they were so much safer. I mean to some extent it is common sense, but I didn't know about the statistics. I'm glad to hear that.

Anyway, we are about three blocks from school, but they offer a bus service to the kids who live across the commuter train tracks. There's a tunnel under the tracks now, but bus service persists. I shocked myself by allowing my kindergartener to ride it to and from school because he was SO incredibly excited to do so, and it did make my life easier at times with littler ones in the middle of winter. The short distance made me feel better, and I trusted the driver.

My biggest concern was the school- like someone said, forgetting that some kids are very young, and really allowing some mess ups like a pp said.

For field trips, the distance was farther, but they seemed pretty organized. I was more nervous about the actual field trip.


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## RiverSky (Jun 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
Kids are eight times safer in a big yellow bus.

Only from being injured in a car accident.

Not from being left at the wrong stop.

Not from being bullied.

Not from being sexually molested by the driver.

I'm glad there are options for those whose children need to get to school, and whose parents cannot walk or drive them, but I do not want my children riding in a school bus without me.


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## De-lovely (Jan 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RiverSky* 
Only from being injured in a car accident.

Not from being left at the wrong stop.

Not from being bullied.

Not from being sexually molested by the driver.

I'm glad there are options for those whose children need to get to school, and whose parents cannot walk or drive them, but I do not want my children riding in a school bus without me.

I so agree with you....I do not at all believe that school buses are not safe in relation to actual accidents. My little Emma starts kindergarten this year and her dad and I have made arrangements that she will never have to ride the bus and always be picked up by myself or him. I would quit my job before I would let her ride the bus at age 5.5.


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## ABmom (Mar 6, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RiverSky* 
Only from being injured in a car accident.

Not from being left at the wrong stop.

Not from being bullied.

Not from being sexually molested by the driver.

I'm glad there are options for those whose children need to get to school, and whose parents cannot walk or drive them, but I do not want my children riding in a school bus without me.


I agree. As the OP stated with regards to young school children, I would not let mine take the school bus on a daily basis. School field trips would be fine as long as there is an extra adult on the bus as well.

I took the school bus when I was young and it was one experience I do not want dd or ds to experience first hand. There was just too much abuse & bullying from some of the students. And of course everyone knows that if a girl sat in the last few rows then she is fair game for some unsolicited touching.


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## Amylcd (Jun 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RiverSky* 
Only from being injured in a car accident.

Not from being left at the wrong stop. - _A child 5 and up should know not to get off the bus at the wrong house. Lets give our children more credit._

Not from being bullied. - _I'm sure this happens much more often at school than on a bus, if you want to keep your child safe from bullies, do not send them to school at all._

Not from being sexually molested by the driver. - _Again, just as likely to happen at school by a teacher. Actually, MORE likely, as the teachers have more time and opportunities to be alone with the child._

I'm glad there are options for those whose children need to get to school, and whose parents cannot walk or drive them, but I do not want my children riding in a school bus without me.

My comments in red. I'm shocked that so many people are this paranoid about school buses.


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## Brisen (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:

I'm sure this happens much more often at school than on a bus, if you want to keep your child safe from bullies, do not send them to school at all.
In my experience, far more bullying happened on the bus than at school. Teachers aren't trying to drive while supervising children, so they can devote more attention to behaviour. In my case, there was more "free" time on the bus than at school, so there was more time for bullying to happen.


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## rachelsmama (Jun 20, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amylcd* 
Not from being bullied. - I'm sure this happens much more often at school than on a bus, if you want to keep your child safe from bullies, do not send them to school at all.

From personal experience I can say it DOES happen a lot on the schooolbus, and because you're stuck on a schoolbus there's no place to go to get away from it. From what I remember, there was a degree of viciousness on the schoolbus that wasn't present at school.


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## mommy2two babes (Feb 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RiverSky* 
Only from being injured in a car accident.

Not from being left at the wrong stop.

Not from being bullied.

Not from being sexually molested by the driver. -

I'm glad there are options for those whose children need to get to school, and whose parents cannot walk or drive them, but I do not want my children riding in a school bus without me.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amylcd* 
My comments in red. I'm shocked that so many people are this paranoid about school buses.

I wanted to say that being molested by a dirver on a school bus full of other kids is probably alot more unlikely than it happening at the hands of another child on the bus. When I was in elementary school and still to this day busses are shared by JK - grade12 students. There is no way that a single bus driver even an amasing one could adequetly supervise all those kids of different ages on a bus of the size.
I know that I and some others had issues with the HS students on the bus.


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## KirstenMary (Jun 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amylcd* 
My comments in red. I'm shocked that so many people are this paranoid about school buses.

I agree with this, especially the sexual molestation part.


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## samikashi (Mar 15, 2008)

We generally have zero interest in others being responsible for the well-being of our child, so we'd probably not allow a ride on the schoolbus.


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## SandraS (Jan 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amylcd* 
My comments in red. I'm shocked that so many people are this paranoid about school buses.

I agree.

Uncle Bob is the one that is going to molest your child, not a teacher or a bus driver.

I think some parents do a disservice to their children hovering so much that their children do not have an opportunity to experience life. Busses are safe. Playing outside is safe. Teachers are safe.

To live your life looking up, waiting for the airplane to hit your roof, is not LIVING. Don't suffocate your children the same way. Don't teach them to fear strangers - because strangers are the good guys. The world needs more people saying "hello" to strangers.

It's called "calculated risk". I take the 1 in 50 million risk of salmonella by letting my children lick the beaters. Why? Because they are in more harm walking across the kitchen floor than getting sick from raw eggs. And they get to participate in what I consider a rite of childhood, that I won't deny them. I won't stifle their exploration, learning, experience, and maturity.

FWIW, the world is as safe today as it was when I was growing up in the 70's. But you can thank 24 hour news and shows like Without A Trace for blurring the line between reality and fiction. It's just NOT DANGEROUS out there.

JMO, of course.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SandraS* 
I agree.

Uncle Bob is the one that is going to molest your child, not a teacher or a bus driver.

I think some parents do a disservice to their children hovering so much that their children do not have an opportunity to experience life. Busses are safe. Playing outside is safe. Teachers are safe.

To live your life looking up, waiting for the airplane to hit your roof, is not LIVING. Don't suffocate your children the same way. Don't teach them to fear strangers - because strangers are the good guys. The world needs more people saying "hello" to strangers.

It's called "calculated risk". I take the 1 in 50 million risk of salmonella by letting my children lick the beaters. Why? Because they are in more harm walking across the kitchen floor than getting sick from raw eggs. And they get to participate in what I consider a rite of childhood, that I won't deny them. I won't stifle their exploration, learning, experience, and maturity.

FWIW, the world is as safe today as it was when I was growing up in the 70's. But you can thank 24 hour news and shows like Without A Trace for blurring the line between reality and fiction. It's just NOT DANGEROUS out there.

JMO, of course.

100% agree.







:


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## mommy2two babes (Feb 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *samikashi* 
We generally have zero interest in others being responsible for the well-being of our child, so we'd probably not allow a ride on the schoolbus.

I think this perfectly sums up the way that I feel. The same reason I have not left my kids with a babysitter other than a few very select family members.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

I've been digging through notes from my school bus technical training:

* Buses provide 8.8 billion student trips annually: an average of 6 children died as school bus passengers each year.

* Between 1996-2006, approximately 79 pedestrians age 5-7 died in school transportation-related crashes, and approximately 3 children aged 5-7 died on a school bus in a transportation-related crash.

* The fatality rate for school buses is only 0.2 fatalities per 100 million vehicle miles traveled (VMT) compared to 1.5 fatalities per 100 million VMT for cars

It is, of course, a parent's decision to transport her child as she pleases -- but far fewer kids die on school busses than in cars or on sidewalks. This is not a value judgement: it is a fact.


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SandraS* 
I agree.

Uncle Bob is the one that is going to molest your child, not a teacher or a bus driver.

I think some parents do a disservice to their children hovering so much that their children do not have an opportunity to experience life. Busses are safe. Playing outside is safe. Teachers are safe.

To live your life looking up, waiting for the airplane to hit your roof, is not LIVING. Don't suffocate your children the same way. Don't teach them to fear strangers - because strangers are the good guys. The world needs more people saying "hello" to strangers.

It's called "calculated risk". I take the 1 in 50 million risk of salmonella by letting my children lick the beaters. Why? Because they are in more harm walking across the kitchen floor than getting sick from raw eggs. And they get to participate in what I consider a rite of childhood, that I won't deny them. I won't stifle their exploration, learning, experience, and maturity.

FWIW, the world is as safe today as it was when I was growing up in the 70's. But you can thank 24 hour news and shows like Without A Trace for blurring the line between reality and fiction. It's just NOT DANGEROUS out there.

JMO, of course.

This is my point of view, exactly. My DD1 will start public kindy in the fall, and she will ride the bus. And I am entirely comfortable with that decision. In fact, I think the experience will be really good for her.


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## Brisen (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy2two babes* 
I wanted to say that being molested by a dirver on a school bus full of other kids is probably alot more unlikely than it happening at the hands of another child on the bus. When I was in elementary school and still to this day busses are shared by JK - grade12 students. There is no way that a single bus driver even an amasing one could adequetly supervise all those kids of different ages on a bus of the size.
I know that I and some others had issues with the HS students on the bus.









: Although I was on a K-8 bus. There was a lot of sexual harassment, though it was usually not very far across grade lines -- usually the attacker was only 1-3 grade levels higher, or in the same grade.


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## RunnerDuck (Sep 12, 2003)

There are bullies on school busses... but if you're bullied don't you just change seats? When I was a kid, the cool kids sat in back. The dorks had to seat in the front or the cool kids would harass them. But as long as they respected the seating heirarchy, peace prevailed.

I thought riding the bus was AWESOME. I didn't get to ride the bus in high school and I was sad. I rode it k-8, though.

All these fear of lecherous drug-addled bus drives make me think people are watching too much Simpsons...







All the bus drivers I ever remember were either boring and silent, but competent... or cool and funny... and competent.

Oh... we had one who got us lost once. I was in the gifted program and we would go to another school on those days... we all had Algebra when we got back to our regular school and most kids would scramble to do their home work on the bus on the way back. But one week we had a substitute bus driver who didn't know the way. We tried telling her (I think it was a her) but she was convinced we were trying to lead her off the path... well one by one kids started realizing we weren't going to back for algebra and started to put their books away. We got back something like 45 minutes after school was over and everyone missed their regular bus.

Of course WE all thought it was great fun. Our parents, not so much...


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## PPK (Feb 15, 2007)

My mom has been a bus aide for about 20 years (special needs and elementary), and I know that they never go without an aide. There has to be that second person to cross the kids, wait with them for their parents, and to monitor the kids. I know that's a challenge with a full busload, and of course things coud aways happen, but seriously, for the lower grades, I know that in our city there's always a bus aide present. Upper grades, I'm not so sure. I know in HS we didn't have one, don't know about MS.

I don't think its unsafe at all!


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## mommy2two babes (Feb 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brisen* 







: Although I was on a K-8 bus. There was a lot of sexual harassment, though it was usually not very far across grade lines -- usually the attacker was only 1-3 grade levels higher, or in the same grade.

Yes this is exactly what I mean. We were in gr 7-8 and some of the HS boys thought it was great fun to make suggestive comments and such.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PPK* 
My mom has been a bus aide for about 20 years (special needs and elementary), and I know that they never go without an aide. There has to be that second person to cross the kids, wait with them for their parents, and to monitor the kids. I know that's a challenge with a full busload, and of course things coud aways happen, but seriously, for the lower grades, I know that in our city there's always a bus aide present. Upper grades, I'm not so sure. I know in HS we didn't have one, don't know about MS.

I don't think its unsafe at all!

Wow, I think that is a great idea. We don't have those here. The only time I can see someone else on the bus would be if you had a SN child on the bus for a class trip and that childs specific helper might come.


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## ABmom (Mar 6, 2008)

I think that it all boils down to WHAT type of experience you had riding a school bus while young will determine your comfort level of letting your child ride the bus.

I don't think anyone is questioning the safety of school buses or the competency of the drivers in general. However there are the odd times where a bad driver or a tragic accident involving the school bus will make some parents avoid the school bus altogether.

I admit that I had some fun and great memories riding the bus while in grade 7-9 but there were also some bullying and sexual harassment and unsolicited touching by a few students to the other riders. I was witness to these things because unfortunately one of the bullies/abusers was a friend of mine. Hindsight, I should have said something but I wanted to be one of the "cool" kids.

I did managed to grow up though as I asked my parents to allow me to take the public bus instead for my high school years.

Like pp mentioned, there's no place to escape when you're on the bus. You either bear it or you don't take the bus. Some kids are just mean and cruel. Until I know that dd and ds can defend themselves, I will protect them from all possible eventualities. BTW, I don't hover but I do keep an eye on them.


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## JD5351 (Sep 13, 2008)

I think it depends on the school district, their hiring policies, the area, etc.

Almost my whole bus was kids from my neighborhood, I think there were maybe 5 other kids that were on the bus when we got picked up, and we filled the bus. I had the same driver from 5th grade to 11th grade when I started driving. I still see her in town, either at the local Amish restaurant, or when I go and vote-she volunteers. When I was in cosmetology school, she used to come in and let me cut and color her hair. lol We all loved her..Even the "bad" kids respected her and her rules. We had assigned seats that she picked based on our ages, and she always made sure to separate anyone who couldn't behave near eachother. I remember when they put the cameras on the busses and we all would wave to the box when we came on the bus and off the bus. LOL

For field trips/football games, etc It was the same drivers who drove the kids to school, and they all had been around for years.

The town I live in now, is a lot bigger, and I'm not sure the drivers would be as personal or as caring as what I grew up with. But the schools are incredibly close to me and I could walk or a quick drive to all of them. Hopefully though, by the time my kiddo is ready for school, I can move back to my old town and he can go there.


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## Amylcd (Jun 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy2two babes* 
I wanted to say that being molested by a dirver on a school bus full of other kids is probably alot more unlikely than it happening at the hands of another child on the bus. When I was in elementary school and still to this day busses are shared by JK - grade12 students. There is no way that a single bus driver even an amasing one could adequetly supervise all those kids of different ages on a bus of the size.
I know that I and some others had issues with the HS students on the bus.

My daughters school bus only transports grades k - 5, and the children are assigned seats by grade level (K in front... to fifth in the back), and by sex if possible. My children sit with other girls in their grades.

Now, if there were also highschool (or even middle school) students on this bus I can understand not trusting the situation.


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## lindsayncadence (Mar 27, 2006)

Yes. My daughter rides the bus to preschool. They have 5pt harnesses on the bus and they let me know I was more than welcome to check them out and make sure I thought it was ok for her ride. But when she goes to kindergarten I most likely will just bring her. Not because I dont find them safe but I like bringing her into school.


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

I never worried about the bus driver being a molestor. When are they alone? I could see bus harassment as a real threat, but I think that really depends on so much. Here's, it's a VERY very short ride with a bus less than 1/3 full of neighborhood kids, k-5. On the way home it was only the Kindergarten kids (all four). I worried about a stranger driving a vehicle with my child in it, but I came to realize that the vehicle itself would likely make it safer.

I think the five year-old wrong stop thing is a valid thing to worry about. They are so young. Yeah, they know their house, but I've had a sub bus driver stop at the wrong stop, not know what he's doing with the route, etc. You'd be surprised. I think that's an important responsibility of the school though.

I don't quite agree with the characterization of this concern as a paranoid. In certain circumstances I would certainly worry about the bus driver's skills, mean kids on the bus, etc.


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## HarperRose (Feb 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brisen* 
Just out of curiosity -- how common are seatbelts on school buses? I always thought school buses never had them, but I'm not sure.

My kids ride the bus.

Their full-size bus has seat belts in the first row of seats. The driver has a short route and a not-very-full bus, so the front row is for the kindergarteners and pre-k'ers.

Their driver is really aware of the kids. I ask him every day how my kids behaved and he's straight forward w/ me if there's been an issue. Conversely, he's also quick w/ praise if it's been a good day.







I feel very confident w/ my kids in his care.

My junior high bus driver was an old guy, probably in his 60's, Berge was his name. Really nice old guy. He'd had an anyeurism some years before. Talked about it a lot, didn't really pay much attention to what the kids on the bus were doing, let us stand, change seats, knees on the seat, etc. It was a FULL bus, too. He'd get after us once in awhile, but not much.

There was another bus I took during those years when I had ballet. I took it once a week. It was even worse than mine. HORRIBLE. And the driver never said a word.


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## HarperRose (Feb 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little grey mare* 
If you have a well-behaved kid, they are much safer on the bus. It's the children whose parents don't enforce the rules that I worry about.

Yes! This is how my neighbor is and it stresses me out so badly! I get her dd on and off the bus so I make DARN sure that child knows she needs to sit down & face forward. She has a tendency to lay on the seat, stand in the seats, and otherwise not be safe. She's the same way in her mother's car. I don't let her do that in my car.







(I'm trying to talk her mother into getting the kid a HBB, too.)

More than once our bus driver had talked to me about this child and the mom said to me, "I think ppl [bus driver & teachers] are picking on her!"









That was fun.









Of course, when the little girl did better w/ sitting down & facing forward, the driver was sure to tell me! I know he's not picking on her.


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## HarperRose (Feb 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ABmom* 
And of course everyone knows that if a girl sat in the last few rows then she is fair game for some unsolicited touching.

I forgot about this.







Happened to me in grade school. Stupid Jason H.







:


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## HarperRose (Feb 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amylcd* 
My daughters school bus only transports grades k - 5, and the children are assigned seats by grade level (K in front... to fifth in the back), and by sex if possible. My children sit with other girls in their grades.

Now, if there were also highschool (or even middle school) students on this bus I can understand not trusting the situation.

That's how our driver does it, too. Although, at my request, he did seat ds1 and dd together for awhile because I was hoping it would help their behavior on the bus. It didn't.


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## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

We homeschool but if we were to public school it would be over my cold dead body my kids will EVER set foot on a school bus. EVER.

I had horrid wretched experiences riding the bus in jr high/early high school. Mainly over a bus driver who flat out hated me (and I was actually NOT a trouble maker, I sat there and read 99% of the time). Plus she was an UA violation, she picked up a HITCHHIKER on the bus with myself, my kid brother and 2 other small children on the bus...this was on a major highway, there was not increment weather, we were less than quarter mile from a business, sure THIS time he was an honest to goodness 'stranded motorist' but he very well could have been a psycho. Then when my mother complained to the bus barn and the superintendent we got a letter that flat out said "This is not a big deal except to a few hysterical parents who insist on making mountains out of molehills"

I realize not all bus drivers are like this woman was, but I'm still not EVER putting my kids on a bus.

I guess if it were a field trip, I wouldn't have a choice but for day to day riding, never ever ever.

AFAIK the buses around here don't come with seat belts at all.


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## Brisen (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HarperRose* 
My kids ride the bus.

Their full-size bus has seat belts in the first row of seats. The driver has a short route and a not-very-full bus, so the front row is for the kindergarteners and pre-k'ers.

Their driver is really aware of the kids. I ask him every day how my kids behaved and he's straight forward w/ me if there's been an issue. Conversely, he's also quick w/ praise if it's been a good day.







I feel very confident w/ my kids in his care.

Thanks for the info -- I haven't heard of there being partly-belted buses. When I was, hmmm, maybe in high school, there was some debate around here about putting belts on all school buses. In the end they didn't, and I don't know all of the reasons, but I remember one of the objections was that kids wouldn't wear them anyway, and they would just be used as weapons.







There is a bus that goes by our house each day with a preschool-aged kid (or seems to be, from what I can see) sitting in a 5-pt harness car seat in the front, and I was taken by surprise because I didn't think buses ever had belts, so what was the point? But it's likely the same kind of bus as you're describing.

And your next paragraph also shifted my worldview a bit.







I don't remember ever having an adult with me for pick up or drop off for the school bus. I waited at the end of my sitter's driveway with the other kids, or at the end of my very long driveway on my own, and when we were dropped off, we all just ran off. I never recall any parents talking with the driver, ever. Of course, I'm also often oblivious to what's going on around me. It just never would have occured to me to chat with the driver when my kids were dropped off. Really OT to this thread, just realizing how different bus culture is in different places (and times, I suppose).


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## leavemealone (Feb 16, 2005)

My DD rides the school bus and I have absolutely no problem with it. Our district has tiered start times so around here, the buses only carry certain grade levels at a time. High school starts first, then middle/intermediate and then elementary. Kindergarten is mostly in another building so there aren't too many who ride even with other elementary level kids. I would rather her ride the bus than me drive her for many of the reasons others have stated (safety, size, etc). We woke up late one day and had to drive her and the parent drop off was a mess. I was almost afraid to get out of my car due to all the crazy parents in the parking lot. I would rather one vehicle drop off 40 kids in a special "bus only" area than 40 parents drop off their kids in the general area. It seemed like a lot of parents were not paying attention and rushing off to wherever they were going rather than paying attention (almost like "Hey, my child is dropped off and safe, now I can talk on my cell phone and practically plow yours down!"). And, FTR, I don't walk my child to the bus stop and wait with her - she goes on her own.









Oh, and my child was taken to the wrong school the first day of first grade year. The bus & the daycare got mixed up and all the kids going to elementary school were put on the same bus instead of separate buses for the two elementary schools. They were also 1.5 hours late getting home that day as well due to kids getting on the wrong bus and having to delay a bus until the child was brought back (child decided to get on a bus with a friend instead of the right bus). My child was not traumatized by it but I'm sure some people will be appalled that I didn't file a lawsuit over it. Maybe it's that my mother is a public school teacher and told me ahead of times that buses run a little late the first couple days. I'm sure I'll be flamed for sharing that story and not being all spazzed out by it. Yes, the district should have gotten it right, but I trust the district and they handled it well in my opinion.

I really think I would be more concerned with a bus driver for field trips than for day to day. Often, daily bus drivers are consistently the same every day and get to know your kids but field trips may be a one-time chartered bus and driver. That's not always the case, but sometimes.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brisen* 
Thanks for the info -- I haven't heard of there being partly-belted buses.

Busses under 10,000 pounds are required to have at least some seatbelts AND some lower anchors to attach carseats.


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

I can understand the concern based on the route, kids, the child's age, bus driver, etc. I can't understand restricting it simply b/c of your own experience. True, then you know what _could_ happen. Experience can be valuable insight. But that doesn't mean it is going to. It could be entirely different. I could have had a terrible experience, but that doesn't change that my child still rides it four blocks with a handful of kids he knows well. I slightly objected to the post that stated concern as amounting to restricting your kids and being fearful, but if you're fearful solely based on your own experience, I would think it somewhat true.


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## Tizzy (Mar 16, 2007)

There are some special restraint systems available for special-needs children - the kind we use is called a Qstraint (sp?).
In one case I had it for a child who had a spectrum disorder, not so much for safety but more for an reminder that he needed to stay sitting down and facing the front.

For our (largish) company, each bus is required to have at least one lap belt installed. They are generally just used for the bus drivers child's carseat. I have two in my bus for two carseats...

One more point to ponder - I know there is no other job or situation out there where I could legally be the sole person responsible for *45* children under the age of 13 at one time. But as a bus driver, I am. Most of us do the best we can, but when you constantly are dealing with unruly children without the backup of parents and without the support of the school, it's literally impossible to maintain discipline and order on the bus.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

I certainly would, but DD will be going to charter school and they have no buses. I'm totally bummed about this. For one thing, think of all the wasted gas.


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## mommy2two babes (Feb 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little grey mare* 

One more point to ponder - I know there is no other job or situation out there where I could legally be the sole person responsible for *45* children under the age of 13 at one time. But as a bus driver, I am. Most of us do the best we can, but when you constantly are dealing with unruly children without the backup of parents and without the support of the school, it's literally impossible to maintain discipline and order on the bus.

And do that while driving.







to you for doing that job.


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## JessicaS (Nov 18, 2001)

I don't allow my child to ride the bus, that's probably a bit ridiculous but I am just not comfortable with it.

I can remember at least five of my bus drivers being fired.

One of our bus drivers was stopping by the local burger joint after school and letting the kids get off the bus and order food. (my mom did NOT believe us about that until they got fired, apparently it was a bit TOO unbelievable







)

One of our bus drivers smoked a lot of pot. That is where I learned "what pot smells like"









One of our bus drivers liked to speed, a LOT he also let all the kids sit on the back of the seats.

Another let the kids smoke on the bus "as long as they threw away their butts"









The last one just had too many tickets, he didn't let everyone sit on the backs of the seats.

My sisters and I were always getting picked on. The boys used to boing my curls







Or we would get in fights because someone was picking on one of our little sisters. It was a mess.

If I had multiple kids in school I would probably let them ride but I am just not comfortable with it just being her.

Our bus driver when we first started riding was awesome and my mom really liked her but then she moved and started on a different route and we had a string of people who should NOT have been driving a bus. We finally got another mom and things were nice and calm again.


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## RiverSky (Jun 26, 2005)

Wow, those are some wacky stories, Abimommy.


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## pumpkinhead (Sep 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TheGirls* 
She's probably safer in a school bus (which is designed to keep kids safe without seatbelts) than in your car in a 5pt harness. The bus keeps kids safe using compartmentalization - the tall padded seats protect the child in an impact. Also, busses are less likely to get in an accident in the first place (being big and yellow helps, also they're driven by professionals). And due to sheer size, a school bus is unlikely to be significantly damaged in a crash.

This.

My son's bus driver is amazing. I have a lot of respect for her. I'm surprised to see someone say they "Distrust bus drivers in general".


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## Polliwog (Oct 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amylcd* 
My comments in red. I'm shocked that so many people are this paranoid about school buses.

I completely agree. My son will ride the bus to kindergarten in the fall. If I have concerns, I'll bring them to a supervisor. He'll be riding with kids from K-5th grade.


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## KristaDJ (May 30, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RunnerDuck* 

All these fear of lecherous drug-addled bus drives make me think people are watching too much Simpsons...









Thanks








I actually don't watch tv at all but I DID get driven around by drunk or drugged bus drivers in junior high and high school. When I was younger and lived in a wealthier neighborhood that never happened, but as a teen I was on the "wrong side of town" and got the distinct impression that we simply didn't matter as much and got the bums for bus drivers. Everyone has different experiences.


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