# Resentful of breastfeeding?



## mamamelia (Apr 14, 2005)

If you *really* resent the breastfeeding relationship between you and your child, would you wean?

Or would you continue to nurse?

Just curious. Thanks.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

I felt fairly resentful and touched out when my daughter was around 16-18 mos old. She was a really rude nurser, really grabby, and wanted the boob A LOT, more than any other kid it seemed.

I bitched about it, talked to friends who said they had felt that way too, and got inspired to stick it out for awhile and see. I also got really consistent about making her keep her hands to herself.

Now she is 2.5, and I love nursing her. I'm so glad I didn't wean early.

I don't know what you are going thru, but before weaning I would try other stuff, like stopping annoying nursing behaviours, or maybe cutting down nursing frequency.

If I *really, really* resented nursing over a period of time, and nothing seemed to make it better, yes I would wean.

Good luck to you.


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## Kathryn (Oct 19, 2004)

I would first try to work through why I was feeling that way and then if I still felt that way, I wouldn't wean until the child had gotten the *minimum* of 2 years as by WHO standards.


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## turtlemama77 (Jul 29, 2005)

If I were feeling really resentful about anything, that would be a clue to me that something in my life was off balance. I think before I weaned, I'd try to get that balance back. Maybe that would mean making sure I was taking care of myself. Maybe that would mean making sure I have enough support, either from family/friends or from somewhere like LLL. I feel like breastfeeding is important enough that I'd do everything I could before I even considered weaning. After all, it's not something you do forever.


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## cynotgirl (Jul 6, 2005)

I dont know how old your dd is, mine is 4 months, and when she was about 6 weeks old, I totally wanted to quit. see:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=383833

but I decided to wait it out (i'm a christian, so I prayed about it which helped me... and talked openly to dh and friends)

It took a few weeks, but eventually the light bulb went off, so to speak, and I liked nursing her. she is only 4 months, so she's still pretty easy to feed!

I think that if a lot of time goes by, and you feel resentful you should stop, your feelings are picked up by your babe. and I would imagine you don't want that to happen. Would you be up for pumping? I have a friend with a pump in style she'd sell for little, I think, which is fast and easy, I understand.

You have to do what is best for you and baby. We all know BM is best for baby, but more important is a loving bond with her mama.... so you should put the healthy relationship first, IMO.

Best of luck to you both!


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kathryn*
I would first try to work through why I was feeling that way and then if I still felt that way, I wouldn't wean until the child had gotten the *minimum* of 2 years as by WHO standards.









:

Sometimes I feel resentful of poopy diapers, doesn't mean I don't change them









-Angela


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

I think resenting a child grabbing at and sucking on one's body can be a much more intense experience than resenting changing diapers.

I really liked turtlemama's post.


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## justmama (Dec 24, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama*
I think resenting a child grabbing at and sucking on one's body can be a much more intense experience than resenting changing diapers.

I really liked turtlemama's post.


Agreeing. Great post turtlemama.


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## srain (Nov 26, 2001)

Yes, I'd stop- better my child miss out on my milk than have a resentful mom. But I'd need to REALLY resent it. Right now I find breastfeeding my 16-month-old annoying, but I don't RESENT it. If, say, I got pregnant and nursing were really uncomfortable, I would probably wean pretty fast.

I do think that giving yourself time to work it through, though, can make a big difference. I think if I decided I were just fed up one day, I'd mark a date three weeks away and make my decision THEN. Chances would be good that things would be better by then. And if they weren't, well- we might both be better off weaning.


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## LoveChild421 (Sep 10, 2004)

I agree with turtlemama- I have resented nursing a few times- but they were always when I was incredibly stressed out and out of balance. That would be the first thing I would try to work on to see if it would help alleviate any resentment.

Some nursing behaviors can cause resentment (like nipple pinching and pulling). Obviously you would want to try to stop the behavior rather than weaning.

I can also understand how a nursing mom could feel resentful of never getting to go out, have more than a few hours to herself- in which case pumping can be a great thing (as long as the baby will take EBM out of a bottle, cup, or feeding syringe).


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## mamamelia (Apr 14, 2005)

Thanks mamas!

thismama, i totally agree with you. I think Alegna is not to fond of me and is just trying to be a pain. But that's OK. Everyone is entitiled to feel how they want to feel. I just try to ignore useless comments and respond to the helpful ones instead.

My DD is very rude nurser too (pinching, biting, grabbing). But that doesn't bother me as much as the fact that I've never enjoyed breastfeeding since I started, 18 months ago. I've had (what I would call physcotic) PPD for that long too, and I know that continuing to breastfeed when I did not want to, really contributed to the depression. I don't know why I don't like it. There is nothing I can pin point. We didn't really have any issues, except for the first week of her life, where I came so close to just formula feeding her entirely as she lost a substantial amount of weight every day and my milk didn't come in till 6 days after she was born, and I spent almost everyday in the hospital crying because of it. I was hand expressing the entire time to get it going. I don't classify that as a traumatic experience though, just a rough patch. So I don't think that would of caused it.

See, for a while I thought it may of been the sleep deprivation. I was sleep deprived to the point where I was *hallucinating* in the day and night. That was the FINAL straw for me when it came to continuing to night nurse. I found out that because I got woken every half hour for months and months on end, I was never actually getting any REM sleep, and so my body was not registering that I had slept. I was running on no REM sleep for almost 1.5 years, so it was only time before I started hallucinating and feeling like I was literally losing my mind.
I'm getting more sleep now, and I was beginning to feel better, but then last night and today, the resentful feeling crept up again.








I noticed that 9 out of 10 times I would be really irritable, moody and edgy when I nursed, but 99% of the time I remained calm for my DD's sake. The whole time I just couldn't wait for her to get off me. Really! It sounds so horrible, and I do think it is horrible, but that's the truth. I don't know if that was due to the PPD and not wanting to be touched or have contact with anyone or what. I'm not sure what it is because I am perfectly fine with having her in bed with us and constant cuddles and carrying, just when I start to nurse her I feel like my blood is boiling.







I've only heard of mamas feeling really relaxed when they nurse, but I've never, never, never felt that. Always the opposite. In addition to the moodyness, I get really tired and ravenous every time I nurse her and by the time 4-5pm comes round, I'm dizzy and have a throbbing headache that can last for days even with pain meds (I am also blessed with migraines). I upped my calories and water thinking that I may have been giving out more than taking in, and it didn't change much. On days when she is busy (like on weekends when DH takes over duties) and I'm not nursing as much, I find I am way happier and way more "willing" to sit down and connect with her. At all other times I just feel like she has a relationship with my boobs and not with me, as stupid as that sounds, and so I don't even want to know her most times. A few times I've even yelled "GET OFF ME!!!!!" which needless to say, really upset her.









I'm not resentful of not going out alone.. I actually don't feel quite as "whole" if I'm not with her..

A couple of weeks ago I was OK with DD nursing in the day time till she refused.. but today I'm not feeling so optimistic about CLW.

So yeah, that's my story in a nutshell..

I really want to make it to 2 years like Kathryn said, but I just feel like I can't.. I don't know.. Any advice other than getting time to myself, because that doesn't seem to help.. Has anyone ever felt this way towards beastfeeding? Not just at "I can't take it anymore" moments, but all the time?

It's horrible to hate something as equally as your child loves it.

my DH (who is very pro-breastfeeding and CLW btw) said to me today on the phone: "which scenario do you prefer? b*tchy, irritable, moody mom that continues to breastfeed, or calm, patient mama who is not breastfeeding?"

I still said b*tchy and breastfeeding







cause I'm having such a hard time thinking that I may entirely wean my DD before she is ready. The thought of that just hurts. But yeah, he made a good point.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Wow, you have really been thru it. Thanks for sharing your story.









You know what, in your situation I would wean. You have given your daughter 18 mos of breastmilk, and you have struggled like crazy to do it. Good for you. I hope you feel really good about that.

I don't think breastfeeding is the be all and end all of a mama/baby (or toddler in your case) relationship. I think you feeling good about the relationship and happy about the ways you and your daughter interact are far more important.

If I were in your shoes I would investigate ways to gently wean. My daughter loved a bottle at that age, especially because she has some baby friends who use them. That could meet sucking needs IMO, if your daughter is into it.

I think the mama/child relationship is about finding balance. In infancy their needs have to take precedence over ours. You chose to give your daughter something she really needed, to your great detrement and suffering. I think there can come a time when you put some of your own needs and desires first. In fact, I think that is necessary to develop a positive relationship with your child, and style of mothering that works for you.

That's my two cents, anyway. Good luck to you and your babe!


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## Kathryn (Oct 19, 2004)

Goodness.







: I don't know if I would wean, but I would cut back a lot and make serious limits. Have you totally night weaned her? That would be my first start. Then maybe get her so she nurses when she wakes, at nap time, and then at bed time?

I was feeling like I didn't want to breastfeed anymore as well, but I knew (in what I believe) that I needed to keep it up. My major issue was how she nursed to sleep. She was very very rude to me and it seriously angered me. I had yelled at her and even slapped her leg once because she was hurting me so bad by flipping around, pinching me, kicking me, hitting me, etc..
I finally said enough. I let her nurse the first night until she started hurting me, then I turned on my tummy and told her she could have more later. Yes, it pissed her off, but she got over it and fell asleep on her own. The next day she didn't get so mad and the third day she just kissed me and snuggled up next to me. I don't mind nursing her at night anymore, but I always stop if she starts getting crazy and rude and she always just turns over and goes to sleep. If I hadn't put that limit on, I would've ended up weaning her and regretting it horribly.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamamelia*
Thanks mamas!

thismama, i totally agree with you. I think Alegna is not to fond of me and is just trying to be a pain. But that's OK. Everyone is entitiled to feel how they want to feel. I just try to ignore useless comments and respond to the helpful ones instead.


I don't have anything against you- I have no idea who you are- honestly I don't remember ever seeing you around
















to you though, it sounds like you've had a rough go of it.

best of luck

-Angela


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## turtlemama77 (Jul 29, 2005)

I don't know...your situation sounds really hard, but I'm still not sure I'd wean. I agree with setting some limits on the nursing antics. Here's a link about nursing manners: http://www.kellymom.com/bf/older-bab...g-manners.html

Have you read Mothering Your Nursing Toddler? If not, you NEED to. It really helped me understand my dd's needs, and I believe there are ideas/tips about how to manage a nursing relationship in all kinds of situations (it's been a while since I read my copy). I'd also suggest seeking out LLL for support. Nursing a toddler can be so challenging, and I've found that there just isn't a whole lot of support out there. If weaning is the route you decide to take, you will get support for that, too. At least call up a leader and chat about some of your concerns. She may be able to think of something different you can try.

Is your PPD under control? I hope that's not a rude question, but I keep thinking that if you're experiencing it still, that may be a major roadblock. I don't know how in contact you've been with your doc, but maybe it's something to look into.

Are you getting some exercise? I know it's hard when you're chasing after a toddler all day, but can you and your babe get out for a walk or get out to some activities (playgroups, library storytime, etc)? It helps me so much to get out of the house. Additionally, your babe may not nurse as often if she's busy (you mentioned there's less nursing when dh is around...maybe your dd is nursing because she's bored?).

For me personally, weaning would be an absolute last resort. I don't know you, so I don't know if you feel that you're at that point, or if you'd be willing to try some other things (or maybe you've tried the things I've mentioned). Some wise mamas have said that they weaned because they thought it would solve the problems they were having, and the problems they were having didn't go away with the weaning. Ultimately you have to balance your toddler's needs and your needs, which I know is hard.

I wish I had some other ideas...if you would like to pm me, please feel free. Please take care.


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## ~Megan~ (Nov 7, 2002)

mamamelia, one thing that I know for sure about most kids is the more you try to push them away the more they want you. Helping your kids find independence works most easily if you are always accepting of them and then they realize you are always there and they have the confidence to move away from you because they know if they need you that you will be there.

I hope that you have received good counseling and help for the PPD.

Perhaps you might be able to make some sort of compromise. Would you think about pumping for some of her day milk so that you aren't nursing quite as much. She may take it if she's used to taking the milk. You could cup nurse her since you said you like to cuddle with her.

When dd was a little bigger I did have some of those same feelings. She had an oral aversion and didn't start eating any solids (more than 1-2 bites day, literally) until 21 months old.
She was nursing every hour during the day and every few at night. It was exhausting and I felt kind of like you that she only wanted my breasts and not me.
Once she did start cutting back on her own because she was eating solids I started to miss the relationship we had (that is until I was pregnant and it hurt really bad to nurse, then my body wanted her to wean but my heart didn't).

I hope that you can find some good advice here and put it into use.


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## mamamelia (Apr 14, 2005)

Some of you may remember, but for those who don't or didn't know, I am the mama that used vegemite to night wean my daughter. For a while, she was nightweaned, but the past 3 nights she has been asking for boobie at night again, even with the V on. Once it dries, it doesn't smell as bad as it does when fresh, and so she just latches on, nurses, and when she is done, goes back to sleep. It was the smell that deterred her from the breast right from the start, and slowly she figured out that the smell dies down dramatically once it dries. The sight doesn't worry her in the least.. she even tried to wipe it off with a tissue the other day and was amused by it all.









Before the V, we tried just about EVERYTHING to night wean and cut back in the day time. She just wont have it. We tried jay gordon's method, and the suggestions from dr sears website (rocking, offering different comforting methods, letting her nurse a lot more in the day time to tank up etc), even, I am ashamed to say, just putting her next to us in bed and letting her cry. Even that failed. The V for us, was the final straw, and because I was hallucinating, we needed to nightwean her NOW. I didn't really have time to go through everything again.

Anyway, she is back on boobie at night (tonight will be the 4th night if this continues), and yesterday I was crying, confused and spaced out. I felt really down inside and today has been BAD. Like really bad. I had to call DH to come home from work for a while. DD has been crying for half the day. I just don't want to know her right now.

I'm still confused about the weaning versus continuing. I really, in my heart, CANNOT be content with the thought that I weaned her just because I hate nursing. It's so unfair. SO SO SO unfair. She doesn't deserve this. But I don't know if I want to go on feeling like this either and really resenting her. I'm becoming incompetant again. I was fine for a couple of weeks and we were really starting to connect and now, I'm back in the dumps.

For the mama that asked about the PPD - no it's not really under control.. I feel fine suddenly and then break down suddenly. I'm on an emotional rollercoaster. It is definitely a major block. Little things seem to help, like the house staying spotless, and going on a decluttering frenzy to feel less weighed down, but I've found that those feelings are only temporary.
I also don't have a LLL next to me, as I live in Australia. No real life support either. Even my mama who self weaned is telling me to wean DD.. but she doesn't know the full story.. she just keeps telling me to wean because I should either demand nurse and let DD self wean, or just stop tormenting DD with the "scheduled nursings" and wean her. Whenever I hear wean, I get so sad for DD that no one is taking her feelings into consideration. She has feelings too!!! Yeah I know, I'm such a freaking hypocrite, I want to wean and I dont want to wean.
DH is supportive and understanding, but he more so towards the side of CLW, and so I feel kinda alone. Everytime I mention mama-led weaning he gets upset for DD. And I can understand that. He's just being a good dad.
In a nutshell, MDC is my only support.
In regards to the exercise, I generally don't feel well on a daily basis (headaches, dizzyness, feeling alone and really down) and so I don't feel well enough to go out. Even when I do, it's only a temporary fix too. It's like I have to constantly distract myself from my feelings.
You know, she probably is really bored too. I've sometimes thought that she was nursing out of boredom. But I can't go out everyday unless I feel well emotionally and physically (and have slept REALLY well the night before - it helps my mood and general wellbeing, alot), and we checked out daycares and they weren't supportive of extended nursing and I was really uncomfortable with that. The most we ever go out is to our backyard where I just let her run around with the water hose.









I have several questions, which I'm hoping can get answered:

When I tell DD to not pinch, bite or tug at the breast, she pops off and screams her head off as if I sentenced her to death. Is this normal? Are all nurslings like this? It's just so hard to watch her cry like that. What can I do? Do I have to just stay strong and deal with it? Is it cruel to let her cry that hard and pull the bottom lip out? What if she cries for longer than 10 minutes? Where to from there?

The same thing happens when I tell her "No boobie right now, do you want some water or nan-ne (food) instead?" tantrums galore. She is very strong minded (which I'm sure will come in handy as an adult) and high needs but right now, it's driving me crazy.

I think I do want to set some limits, but I don't know how? Offering other ways of comforting is not working and makes the situation worse (makes her nurse and ask EVEN MORE because she is so upset). What can I do? I actually counted how many times she asked me in half an hour, today, it was 6.

There are two reasons why I think this is not working:
All she ever had of me, during those really bad days (which lasted for months), was nursing, so it must be hard for her to let go.
I can't stand to hear her crying and I take it as heartbroken cries from being rejected by me and something she loves so dearly (boobie). And so I kick myself for making her feel that way and I just end up nursing her again.










Quote:

I think the mama/child relationship is about finding balance. In infancy their needs have to take precedence over ours. You chose to give your daughter something she really needed, to your great detrement and suffering. I think there can come a time when you put some of your own needs and desires first. In fact, I think that is necessary to develop a positive relationship with your child, and style of mothering that works for you.
I agree with you on so many levels and thankyou for making me feel a little better. I'm just finding it really difficult to take that step..









I'm praying that you mamas have some advice on what to do or how to deal with DD's resistence to cutting back. I at least want to make it 2 years, which is another 6 months, but at the rate we are going, were lucky if we even make it for another 6 days. Please tell me you have a solution. Things are going downhill again and Im afraid this is going to be one of the biggest crashes ever.









Thanks.


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## michaelasmommy (Aug 2, 2005)

It sounds like your PPD is more severe than mine was, but I wanted to offer some support. I'm nursing my second baby now. Like you, I have never enjoyed nursing. I set a goal of 1 year after a few months of nursing. I have a medical condition that gives me really sensitive skin, but I wanted to try to give my baby what is best for her. As my first daughter got older, I found her to be more and more irritating. She weaned at 17 months, when I was pregnant with DD#2, which only made me more sensitive. My oldest did the screaming fits when I told her not to scratch me, which was her habit, or when I told her no. She sounds a lot like your baby-strong-minded! I gave her pumped milk in a cup at first, then switched to reg. cow's milk. Would pumping be an option for you? Maybe your husband could give her a bottle of EBM at night so you can sleep? I hope this helps! It sounds like you've done a lot to nurse, and have nursed her for longer than most people. I know a lot of people here will disagree with me, but I wouldn't feel too bad about weaning after 18 months. It's a lot different when medical issues interfere as opposed to just weaning cuz you feel like it. I'm hoping to let DD#2 wean herself, and I set a goal of at least 18 months with her, since I did so well with my first. Good luck!


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## mamamelia (Apr 14, 2005)

my PPD is pretty bad, even my doctor said it was severe because i had suicidal thoughts all the time and ran away from home a few times (one time wanting to act on those thoughts). even got to the point where i was just screaming at the top of my lungs at like 2 in the morning - no words, just screaming like a crazy person in a pyschiatric ward. really embaressed to say this, but i also had thoughts of harming DD. i never did, but yeah, it wasn't just the "baby blues" or mild depression. i was REALLY in the dumps. i still feel like i am. so in a way, i am proud for giving DD what i have given her.

pumping milk sounds ok. i could hand express. i know how to do that pretty well.. i might try cup nursing the next time she asks to nurse tonight and see how that goes.

how did your DD handle the weaning process and afterwards? did you wean her, or was it self weaning at 17 months?

it IS alot difficult to continue when it goes beyond you just not wanting to nurse. you hit the nail on the head.

thanks for the support mama.


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## mamamelia (Apr 14, 2005)

just an update - i tried cup nursing (hand expressed and pumped) and hardly anything came out (after 5 minutes, i got 5ml which is one sixth of an ounce). so cup nursing is out.. i'm not making alot of milk these days, or so it seems.
the pathetic amount that i did get was given to her in a cup and she could tell it was breastmilk because she smiled after she swallowed it and said "mmmmm". seeing that was kinda nice.

also, DD woke up several minutes ago and i went in comfort her. she asked for "boobie" and nursed even with the V on. this is the 4th night that this has happened, so i guess i can safely say, she is no longer night weaned.


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## LoveChild421 (Sep 10, 2004)

I really feel for you- it is amazing that you have been able to stick with bf for this long. I hope the mamas here have some suggestions as to how to help her cut back more. I saw that you mentioned not making much milk and feeling better when she nurses less often- I was wondering how your nutrition is- do you take vitamin supplements?, get enough omega fatty acids? If not you may experience worse depression and your milk production may decrease- and dry nursing (at least in my experience) can be one of the most uncomfortable things in the world.


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## turtlemama77 (Jul 29, 2005)

I'm so sorry you're having such troubles!! I don't know a lot about PPD, but what has the doc suggested? There are antidepressants that are safe for breastfeeding. If your doc is telling you otherwise, please try to find a copy of Hale's (which is like a nursing mother's bible of medicines and their safety with breastfeeding). Have you tried any herbal/natural remedies? My PPD wasn't as severe as yours, so I don't know if it will help, but I started taking evening primrose oil (tablet form) and extra calcium and magnesium, starting when I began ovulation and ending after my AF was completed...that in combination with daily exercise (and yes, I had to force myself until I got into the habit) helped me a lot. I'm not saying it's the answer for everyone, but I don't think it hurts to try different things. It's important for your parenting in general (not just for breastfeeding) to get that PPD under control as much as you can.

This article on www.kellymom.com might be helpful to you: http://www.kellymom.com/parenting/velcrochild.html

There's also a link through the article for another article about nursing manners that might help.

LLL has a message board where you might get additional support: http://lalecheleague.org/vbulletin/

Are there any AP related playgroups in your area? I've searched meetup.com and matchingmoms.com and found some in my area. You could maybe search yahoo groups, too.

I don't know if any of that helps you...I'm sorry I can't be of more help. Do you have family/friends around who could help with your child during the day so you can get some space, maybe take a nap or get out of the house alone? I have heard that the 12-24 month period can be very challenging for some toddlers. Have you read Mothering Your Nursing Toddler? It's an LLL book, but I found it on amazon.com (or you could check a library). I haven't read my copy in a while, but I believe there's info there about challenging nursing situations.

Ultimately, you need to do what is best for your family. That includes taking care of yourself, mama. Please take care.


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:

i tried cup nursing (hand expressed and pumped) and hardly anything came out (after 5 minutes, i got 5ml which is one sixth of an ounce). so cup nursing is out.. i'm not making alot of milk these days, or so it seems.
Many women are never able to hand express much. Your supply is most likely just fine.

Uhg. It's sounds like you've really been through a bad time.







Is there any way you could get a mother's helper or babysitter for a couple of hours a day. Maybe a neighborhood teenager could come over and play with your daughter while you have a nap? It seems to me like mothering is really hard for you right now, and maybe it's not _just_ the nursing. I wish I had some great advice for you!


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## faeriewisp (Mar 13, 2005)

I posted this in the thread by the lady who needed to wean immediately due to her breast cancer. Here it is, modified for you:

WHat a hard thing! I can't even imagine and my thoughts and love go out to you.

I believe in the power of positive thinking and that we have the ability to communicate with each other, spirit to spirit. These powers can be strong forces that affect our children. I think you are in need of reassurance, to help you remeber that you are strong enough to do these things.

Children are so sensitive to our thoughts and emotions. When your daughter's spirit sees your spirit in pain and worry, she sees what you are picturing in your head.

Everytime you have the thought "I am not having fun breastfeeding" you HAVE A PICTURE, an actual image in your consciousness......OF YOUR DAUGHTER HAVING DIFFICULTIES, images of her being rude, hurting you, throwing a tantrum, etc.

What if you were to focus on the idea of how your positive thinking can affect your daughter? Focus on communicating to her spirit that you love her, and that the your negative feelings about breastfeeding are resolved.

What if you did whatever it took (leaving post-its for yourself, enlisting support from friends and family) to remmeber to control your thoughts, so you create a POSITIVE PICTURE in your consciousness. What if you made yourself think "OK, I am providing for my daughter, I'm remaining calm?" Might then the images in your head might be of your daughter pleasantly nursing and feeling so loved and surrounded by your calming presence?

We focus so much on how to love our babies with our bodies, through gentle birth choices, breastfeeding, hugging kissing nibbling, rocking holding and sleeping with them. ALL wonderful things, but DON"T FORGET the special intuitiveness and spiritual connection we have with them as well. This life is what the two of you came to do together. With your positive images, you can carry and deliver her through this. She sees what you see, because you are his mother.

And with your carefully controlled thoughts you may be able to see a clear calm way to support her in going ahead and weaning, if breastfeeding continues to cause pain.

This is a rebirth, her birth of independence from the breast. You're coming up on transition and the best advice is to relax, give yourself up to the birth power, and remember that logically everything is going to be okay. Strive to make it a gentle birth for your daughter, and you can both feel safe. Picture her feeling loved and warm, not screaming for the breast.

Your daughter will be fine! SO many of us as babies were weaned early or not breastfed at all, and we all have our issues, but we have our morals and independent thinking and the desire to make a better world for our kids. The spirit is strong. You need to take care of yourself first.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

I wouldn't. I think it goes in phases. I am pregnant and nursing can really bother me, but I know it will it get better after the bbay is born.


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## michaelasmommy (Aug 2, 2005)

I slowly got my DD down to once a day starting after she was about 12 months old, and I was about 4 months pregnant. It took a couple months to get down to that, and she would have times during the day when she wanted to cuddle, but she didn't nurse. Most of the time we did a don't offer, don't refuse policy, but sometimes I was feeling so angry towards her, I did say no, and had my husband hold her and rock her while I went into another room to kind of chill out so I could hold her later. Can your hubby or a night time helper go into her at night, so she doesn't see you and want to nurse? I found that if I wasn't there, my daughter didn't miss it as much as I thought she would. I would definetley suggest getting in touch with a LLL leader for help. I have found that the best thing for my PPD was having some "adult time". I felt so isolated staying home with my baby every day. With my second baby, we have been involved in LLL and a playgroup and a MAPS group. The depression has been way less with the second baby. And there are still those mornings when I have to force myself to get out of the house, but I am so glad I did when I get around other moms. I am with you, definitely understanding the thoughts of suicide and hurting baby. I really struggled with a lot of resentment about the loss of freedom witha new baby, and I still do occasionally. But being around other moms has really helped ease a lot of that. I hope you can find some support! Let us know how you are doing!


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## hottmama (Dec 27, 2004)

I am tandem nursing my 3 yr. old and 3 mo. old boys, and honestly, I've always found breastfeeding unpleasant at the least, ranging to "OMFG get this freakin' kid off of me!!!" pretty frequently. I believe in CLW, though, and think that I am obligated to breastfeed my kids until they are done, not until I am. They both wake me up at night to nurse, they both nurse frequently (every 1-3 hours) during the day, and it sucks. A lot.
These years fly by, though, and I won't remember how absolutely awful it was giving my children their birthright.
So no, I wouldn't wean because I resent nursing. It was my decision to bring these kids into the world and it's my responsibility to follow through on that decision by giving them the best.
However, it sounds like you have a lot more issues than just resenting nursing, and I hope you are getting some help.


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## Doodadsmom (May 27, 2005)

I had a friend who used lemon juice in the same way you used the Vegamite. I don't know how good of an idea that is - it seems like it might irritate your skin and citrus is sometimes an allergen, right? But if you don't think it would bother you or DD, maybe that would be worth a try at night.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Doodadsmom*
I had a friend who used lemon juice in the same way you used the Vegamite. I don't know how good of an idea that is - it seems like it might irritate your skin and citrus is sometimes an allergen, right? But if you don't think it would bother you or DD, maybe that would be worth a try at night.









This is NOT an AP or gentle practice. Please don't do this to your child.

-Angela


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## crazydiamond (May 31, 2005)

{{mama}}

I think, I really do think, that your PPD is causing this. It caused your initial dislike of nursing, it's causing the anxiousness when your DD's nursing, and it's causing _all_ of your resentment.

From someone who had severe PPD and was contemplating suicide as well, I can tell you I felt the same way about nursing. I hate nursing, I hated the sleep deprivation, I hated her touching me and grabbing me, I hated all of it. All I wanted was to be left alone and in peace.

So my question to you is, what have you done for your PPD? Because I tried natural methods, excercise, more sleep, therapy, you name it. It helped, but didn't address the anxiety (which, btw, I wasn't aware of until my therapist put a name on it). Nothing helped until I got on antidepressants. In about two weeks, I was a whole new person. I wasn't edgy, I wasn't so emotional, and suddenly and overnight, nursing became enjoyable! Seriously, I was shocked. I'm on Zoloft and it's safe to take while breastfeeding. I'm still in therapy which is more helpful now that the Zoloft has kicked in and I'm still striving to exercise and maintain my sense of self. But in the end, I owe my life to Zoloft.

I have no idea how you feel about medication and/or if you've tried some. If you haven't, I urge you to make a call to your doc. If you have, then try another one. It took me three tries (Paxil and Wellbutrin came first) to find one that worked. Nightweaning, more time to yourself, and more sleep might be helpful and allow you to cope better, but I don't think they're the answer. I really really really do think that the PPD is the culprit here and you need to get it under control before everything else falls into place.


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## ~Megan~ (Nov 7, 2002)

I think you need to seek medical help for your depression right away. Perhaps if you get some medical attention then it will help your resentfulness. Also could she sleep in a seperate room with dad at night and he could comfort her. dd started going to sleep without nursing when dh put her to bed. She didn't accept alternate forms of comforting from me but would from dh.
To help with sleep could you go to bed when your dh gets home so you can at least get a few hours uninterrupted?
Have you thought of hiring a person to care for her a few hours at a time so you can sleep during the day?

If she is not ready to wean maybe some of the above things might help.


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## mamamelia (Apr 14, 2005)

just a quick reply to say that i have decided not to wean entirely, but rather just stick with the nightweaning (we'll have to start the process all over again though). i'm going back to nightweaning because everyday felt like torture to me when i was sorely sleep deprived and dealing with severe depression, and well, i can't deal with the thought of being like that again. i think i've done well with night nursing, considering the circumstances, and it's time for mama to heal and get some rest.

i'm working on a plan right now, and will still need some advice from you mamas too, if that's OK.







it's 1:46am right now, so i really should try to sleep and continue this tomorrow. our roads are being fixed and i'm having a hard time falling asleep. they are soooooo freakin' loud!

my dd thanks you all for encouraging me to stay with nursing.


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## mamamelia (Apr 14, 2005)

well today has been a shocking one. i had to call dh in again from work because i was that distressed, that i could not cope with being alone.







i literally felt like the world was closing in on me. for the past two days i have been feeling really sick. can't eat and i feel sick (wanting to vomit) when i do eat.

*sigh*

i have only nursed dd once today, and it did help a little. dd wasn't that upset when i said "no boobie now", but she did kiss me an awful lot, especially when i was close to tears. she gets really affectionate when i'm upset, starts to rub my head, grab my face with her hands and kiss me, hug me etc.
i was thinking about weaning again.. but then i thought about how i didn't feel *that much* better, despite only nursing her once, and it pushed the thought of weaning her now, to the back of my head. i know we need to cut back though. probably to nursing 6-8 times a day? is that reasonable? i think it is for an 18 month old? if my dd had it her way, she would either stay latched on, or at best, nurse every 5-10 minutes. i just can't cope with that sort of nursing behaivour especially after feeling the way i do when breastfeeding. i also didn't mention that i am only nursing dd from one breast and have been doing that for at least 16 months?? my right breast is at least double the size of the left one now (thanks to being used full time), and the left one has never produced much milk right from the start (i know this through pumping).. and her latch was NEVER proper on the left one, even after much trying with nurses and LC's. right now, it still doesn't produce more than a few drops and when i put dd on that side, she pops off within several seconds and starts to fuss, whereas she doesn't do that on the right boob. so i'm wondering if the one sided boobie feeding is making her feed more than a toddler usually would?

anyway...
i mentioned last week that i was nightweaning dd again. my plan was to get her down to 2 night nursings (which we did with minimal tears), and then gradually cut out one nursing session, and then gradually cut out the last nursing session. i gave myself at least 2 months to get it down to zero night nursings. it was a fairly easy process to get down to 2, actually (it just took one night).. i offered her cuddles and rubbed her belly, told her in a very gentle voice that there is no boobie right now, but soon there will be. and she accepted the cuddles easily and cried for probably 10 seconds or so? so it wasn't as bad as when we had previously tried the same thing, which is good news.
i'm through with putting V or anything on my nipples, and it's not like it really worked anyway. it did for a while, and then she started to wipe it off with a tissue, which meant that she knew it could come off and then it was boobie time again. she is a smart little girl.
besides, i think the nightweaning will be more permanent this way (excluding teething and any illness periods).

i should mention that the day i started cutting back at night, i did have alot of body contact with her in the day time. we slow danced alot and she fell asleep in my arms. and i think that was the key - she can nurse less and not be tormented, but needs more body contact to make up for less nursies.
the entire time i was trying to nightwean her using gentle methods, i didn't actually increase body contact time in the day. one time i did increase nursing sessions (yeah, like we need more of that







) hoping to "tank her up" and that didn't work come night time. she still refused other ways of comforting.
the mistake was, i comforted her in other ways when she asked for boobie, only. instead, i should of comforted her voluntarily IN BETWEEN nursing and not JUST as a substitute. well no wonder she didn't accept the other ways of comforting come boobie time. not to say that i never cuddled her. i always cuddled and carried her, even at my worst, but i did not voluntarily pick her up and cuddle her (actually to be fair, i did this sometimes, but nothing consistent), 90% of the time it was when she came up to me, excluding the in-arms phase.
she is probably feeling lonely from all those dark months. i'm sure she has picked up on it. my poor baby. the first thing every morning that she does, is hug me and kiss me. dh thinks it's so sweet that she can't wait to hug and kiss me. she loooooooves it and gets so excited when i finally get out of bed and say "com'n let's go". she grins just as much as when i say "boobie time!" which makes me so sad that she probably felt so alone all those times i was off with the fairies, which is why i no longer want to be off with the fairies. i don't care what it takes. i NEED to be here, present, with my daughter.

i really want to let dd self wean in the day time. i always dream of the day that she says to me "no more nursies" and i know that deep in my heart, she feels confident and content enough to go through her days without needing boobie. that's when i'll feel really proud of myself. really proud.
but in the meantime, i am finding this so damn frustrating. i know alot of the resentment i feel on a daily basis is due to the depression and anxiety, but i won't discard the fact that not enjoying breastfeeding adds quite alot of misery to the pile. and when you do something often that you don't enjoy one bit, it is really hard to stay calm with the thought that you'll be doing this for the next 3+ years. and i don't think me not enjoying breastfeeding is due to depression, because i DO enjoy co-sleeping and i DO enjoy slinging and cuddling her to death, yet i am still depressed at the same time. i think the way i feel physically during and after breastfeeding is what makes me hate it.

i contacted the australian breastfeeding association (which is like LLL) about joining a local breastfeeding group for some real life support, but it's been 6 days and no reply yet. and no one answers thier damn phone!!!







how can they expect people to continue with breastfeeding if you can't even find some freaking support????

i thought that to "make up" for the less nursing and nightweaning... i am thinking of slinging her again, and slow dancing her to sleep for daytime naps. i haven't slung her in a while as she really enjoys walking around when she is out or being pushed around in her little umbrella stroller.
she is about 25lbs, so any reccomendations for a comfortable sling for this weight would be appreciated.. i also have scoliosis if that helps.. in the in arms phase, i had only either used my arms, dh's arms, or our hug-a-bub sling + she was much lighter. my back just aches in the hug a bub now. so that's out.

anyway, i must be off to bed.. i'm getting sleepy at the keyboard.. dd is in my arms nursing atm and ready to nod off.. it's her 1st nurse for the night.

just feeling like such a failure at motherhood, today


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## mamamelia (Apr 14, 2005)

well, now i know why i have been feeling all over the place emotionally, as well as feeling sick at times and unable to eat anything but mashed potatoes......








: I'M PREGNANT







:










i was feeling so shaky and unbelievably hungry this morning depsite only nursing dd once at night and i wolfed down a steak, more mashed potatoes, grilled tomatoes, 1 cup of yoghurt and 1 whole peice of pita bread that was toasted. and i was still hungry. so i took a test, it was positive within seconds and i went to my doc and took a confirmation test, again positive. now i have to go for blood tests. that should be fun.









doc told me to wean, i just said yes and walked out. HA! wean. what a joke. i haven't really been feeling pain when melia nurses, a little little bit, nothing to complain about. i am 7.5 weeks according to my last period, but, i know i definately wasn't pregnant 3 weeks ago (8th of march) when i had to have a preg blood test before having an x-ray. so it happened sometime between then, so really i am only about 4-5 weeks along. and i don't know how it happened. we were intimate *once*, ONCE in all those weeks. and it was a "i feel so sorry for you cause it's been a looooong time" intimate session. i certainly wasn't expecting this if you kwim.

i also weighed dd at the docs. she is only 10kg, i got my calculations wrong last time. 10kg is 22lbs (she is 18 months). she has gone below the 25th percentile, from 50-60. she has always been at 50-60. i KNEW my milk supply was going down. i just knew it. her activity has not changed, her other food intake has not changed. the only thing that did change was she was nursing more and more and more and never seemed satisfied (and nursing was about 75-80% of her total food intake everyday) and i can't really hand express anything anymore. about 6 months ago, i was able to easily. and my supply was definately regulated at 3 months PP.
i wonder why it went down? granted she has been nourished from ONE boob for 18 months so we have done well.
anyway, still planning on nursing during pregnancy, and just leaving the night nursing as one nursing session. i don't think i'll cut the last one out. i was ok last night nursing her once, and rolled over back to sleep and had 5 hours straight. bliss!!!! so we'll just stay with that. i'm sure dd won't mind.









she has been nursing ALOT today and won't get off my breasts. i don't know if she knows (she keeps staring at me in a funny way)... or if my milk supply is taking even more of a dive or tastes different. i hope it's not the milk.


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## mamamelia (Apr 14, 2005)

is there anything that i can take to increase the milk supply other than oatmeal? oatmeal gives me heartburn and too many carbs in one hit (even complex) makes me wired.

btw, the doc commented on how happy and healthy dd is. i told him it's because she is a breastfed baby.


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## emma_goldman (May 18, 2005)

What a relief! It explains A LOT! What a wild ride you are on. My best to you, sweet mama.
-Deb


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## srain (Nov 26, 2001)

I read yesterday's post via e-mail, and thought, "hmmm, I should log on and ask if she's SURE she's not pregnant"- and lo and behold.

I hope that having a REASON for your feelings is helpful, but I'm sure that you're still wondering how you're going to handle the next 8 months, and then a new breastfeeding relationship, when your current one has been so difficult. I don't have a lot of advice, except to say that I got through periods when I was very stressed and depressed by spending as much time as possible with other adults. Even if they were only acquaintances, it made my relationship with my son seem less all-encompassing just to have another grown-up around.

(Please e-mail me if you want to talk more-)


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## turtlemama77 (Jul 29, 2005)

Unfortunately, during pregnancy, there isn't a whole lot you can do to increase your supply. Drinking enough water, making sure you are eating to your hunger and getting some rest will all help though. I am currently nursing my 15 month old dd and am 25 weeks pregnant. I found a LOT of the answers I needed by reading Adventures in Tandem Nursing (bought my copy on amazon.com).

Take care!


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## CryPixie83 (Jan 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamamelia*

thismama, i totally agree with you. I think Alegna is not to fond of me and is just trying to be a pain. But that's OK. Everyone is entitiled to feel how they want to feel. I just try to ignore useless comments and respond to the helpful ones instead.

Sounds like you don't know Alegna's posting style very well. She's blunt, to the point and speaks her mind. That doesn't mean she doesn't like you.

To answer the original question, yes, i've felt resentful of my nursing relationship, when DH can go out with his friends (concerts, guys night out, etc) I have felt like it's because of DD that I can't go out and "have a life" Those are my selfish and immature moments and they pass. I know there are more important things that going to concerts or going out with my friends. My daughter is the most important thing in my life and our relationship is very close and nursing is a big part of that, I would be doing her a great disservice if I stopped simply because I had my irrational moments. It would take a lot more than resent to stop my nursing relationship with my dd.


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## CryPixie83 (Jan 27, 2004)

BTW just read the rest of the thread, congrats on the pregnancy! I so understand your feelings now! I'm pregnant also and it can definately cause that "if I nurse one more time I'm going to break down" feeling. The feeling lessens as the hormones balance out, so hang in there! It does help to know "what's wrong" though.


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## terrabella (Oct 19, 2005)

The resentment would become deep rooted, affecting my child and our relationship. Even a bottle is better than that type of trauma.

Anyway... Congratulations!!!!!!


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## bethwl (May 10, 2003)

I wanted to just offer support and congratulations on your pregnancy. I went through a VERY hard time with nursing at around the ages of 14-19 months. Feelings of literally skin crawling, I hate this, OMG I can't stand another minute nursing sessions. And dd was wanting it all day. She is now 32 months and still nurses but usually only once a day and will accept literally about 20 seconds per side and then me saying "Ok, nursies all done." This time last year I never thought I'd still be doing this, because I was so much hating it. I don't really know why, but I find it interesting that I went through that feeling at much the same time as you are at now (though I did not hate it that way from the beginning). I also was very vigilante about not getting PPD because of my depression history and though I had gone off Zoloft when I became pregnant, I decided to go back on about 6 weeks before delivery due to my mood just plummeting during pregnancy. I think that was a good decision for me and maybe one you can research. You are of course pregnant now, but for me I felt comfortable going back on it once past the first especially and second trimesters based on the studies I read. And as for Zoloft in breastfeeding, the studies indicate that the amount in the breastmilk is very low as evidenced by blood samples of nurslings of Zoloft moms that contained only trace amounts of the drug.

I wish you the best and hope that now that you are so aware of your PPD and experience with your first dd that you can prepare for your second birth and hopefully have a more peaceful time with your new baby.


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## Emmalina (Apr 2, 2006)

Hi there,

I don't know if this is an appropriate response to your situation but I just wanted to give an alternate perspective. First of all my 'credentials' are that I am a mum who has expressed milk for 8 and a half months for my little boy as he was preemie and couldn't feed. I still feel really sad that I couldn't 'properly' feed him but at least he is here with me which is what counts.

Ok, I don't have answers to your breastfeeding problems but I will say this. Being a mum is about more than one element. You will be your daughter's mum long after you've stopped feeding her. If you are unable to cope with feeding her, pat yourself on the back and say enough is enough. You have done a wonderful job and though she might be a bit pissed off for a while she will get over it. I've noticed (to my sometimes amusement) that my son is capable of crying as if his life were over because his bottle is delayed by one second getting to his lips. Children don't have the ability to set limitations on themselves like adults can so when they don't get their own way they are upset and show it! Unfortunately, no matter how hard we try, life is going to always limit what they can have and all you can do as a parent is love them and support them. Sometimes these limitations are for their own good and sometimes they are for ours but parenting doesn't have to be about throwing yourself onto the bonfire, all sacrafice and misery.

I am totally in agreement with others that you should do your best for your child but having a really unhappy mum isn't good for her. And besides that you have a right to think of your own health and wellbeing. Why set yourself some target which isn't really helping you? If you feel weaning her is the most important thing then do it. If it will help you to have a better time then do it. It is one thing to try and do the best for your child and totally another to almost kill yourself. That is just taking a good thing too far. Just remember that only you can make the best decision for yourself, if you look to other people to think of you first you will largely be disappointed. If your husband is unhappy I would say tough luck pal. He isn't the one doing all of this and your health and wellbeing are equally important.

I hope that you are able to make a better future for yourself and your family. Honestly nothing is that big a deal, being a mum is a forever job and soon she'll be leaving home and telling you that you don't understand her. Enjoy it while you can, its gone too soon.

Best of luck

Ps I am saying all of this as someone who is an 'attached' parent. My child is my number 1 priority but I recognise that I can only do my best by him when I am ok too. Plus I have the right to be happy too! Bright blessings to you, I hope that you can find your happy path.


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