# May 2012 Rockstar Mamas



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Member List:

lyeterae ~ Baby boy born February 2011
annie ~ Baby girl born April 7, 2011
Barefootscientist ~ Baby boy born May 30, 2011
AnnieA (due 7/18) ~ Baby girl born July 17, 2011
MarineWife (due 7/30) ~ Baby boy born July 25, 2011
Baby_Cakes (due 8/16) ~ Baby boy born August 16, 2011
MovingMomma (due 8/9) ~ Baby girl born August 18, 2011
akind1 (due 9/28) ~ Baby girl born October 11, 2011
mom2one (due 10/23) ~ Baby boy born October 21, 2011
jeninejessica (due 12/01) ~ Baby girl born November 29, 2011
Kindermama (due 1/6) ~ Baby boy born January 1, 2012

Last month's thread: http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1349941/april-2012-rockstar-mamas-and-their-babies-better-late-than-never


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> He's still just distant and disengaged. He's burnt out from work he says and tired.


I have a perfect example of why I'll never accept this excuse from a man. My mom is 70. She still works full-time, at home. She works as a patent examiner for the United States Patent & Trademark Office. She examines applications for inventions of industrial chemical compositions to see if they will get patented. It's a very mentally taxing job. I know because I did pretty much the same thing for several years, although I examined bio-affecting chemical compositions. She does this and takes breaks throughout the day to walk her dog and play with my boys. At the end of the day she comes down and cooks dinner and/or cleans up for all of us. She'll take a break to watch Dylan and my older boys so I can take a shower or run to the store.

And, what about all those mothers who WOH and then come home and cook, clean, play and read with the kids and then get everyone ready for and into bed? They work just as hard as any man but they don't come home and say they are burned out or used up and can't possibly do anything else.

That's fine if everyone is happy with it. But if someone isn't happy, something needs to change. Either the partner who is vegging out needs to step up or the other partner needs to accept things the way they are.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

subbing!

Yes - exactly. I agree 100%. Then there are single moms!! Don't even get me started!!

How do you feel about things knowing now he wasn't ignoring you? Still considering not going back? You'd have to at least go back to get the rest of your things...and talk to Ryan? No?


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I agree w/you MW. When I worked 8-5, I'd still have to come home and cook dinner, monitor homework, get the kids through the shower and in to bed plus clean up the kitchen, wash clothes, pack lunches, etc. It's just part of being a grownup. DH did stuff too but there was no way that I would just say "Oh I'm burned out from work tonight." What I may have done was do an easy supper since I was tired. Grab pizza or something. Maybe figure out if I can push the clothes washing to the next day, etc. Decide to do lunches early the next morning, etc. But not doing the work wasn't an option.

Baby_Cakes, I'm glad that your shopping trip today went better! I've found that setting expectations is a HUGE help, even if I feel like I'm stating the obvious. Sometimes they just need a reminder, especially if I'm in a hurry. I usually say something like "We need to get in and out so I need you guys to stay with me today" or if we're not in a hurry I'll tell them they can go off on their own and look but they need to meet back at X time. And if I hear/see yelling, running, hitting, etc, then they have to stay with me.

MW, there's a playground at the USMC museum that's a lot of fun. That may be a good place to meet. Easy to get to, free parking, free entrance to museum if anyone needs to use the bathroom and there's lots of shade. We can FB message about it later on in the month. I'll probably still go to IKEA that day since I'll already be up there. We have a crib from there. It was $100 and I love it. It doesn't come with a mattress though. You have to buy that separate.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Carrie ~ I meant to say the same thing Annie did. Glad you had a better day shopping.

One thing that's supposed to be helpful when telling kids your needs and expectation before something is to make positive statements. So, instead of saying, "No running, yelling, hitting," you could say, "Walk next to me," "Talk in a quiet voice," "Keep your hands to yourself." It's a lot easier to list a few things that are ok to do rather than the multitude of things you don't want them to do.

Have you noticed any correspondence between the problems you're having with Nora and when Chris is home or away? My boys have a really hard time adjusting right after Sean leaves and comes home. Most of the time, if I can switch my reaction to responding to their angst over that rather than just focusing on how they are "acting out" (which a lot of times I wonder if they are vs. me just being overly sensitive myself from the change), things go a lot more smoothly.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> How do you feel about things knowing now he wasn't ignoring you? Still considering not going back? You'd have to at least go back to get the rest of your things...and talk to Ryan? No?


I was mostly joking about not going back. I am kind of ambivalent about it, though. There are a few things I've been thinking I need to get straight in my head. For example, if I didn't try to contact someone (boyfriend, spouse, significant other) for 3+ days, especially after a fight, it would be because I was over it. That's me, though. That's not Sean. It was only 1 day, anyway. I project a lot of my thoughts, feelings and intentions on to him when maybe he's not thinking, feeling or meaning any of it. I need to work on that.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Carrie ~ I meant to say the same thing Annie did. Glad you had a better day shopping.
> One thing that's supposed to be helpful when telling kids your needs and expectation before something is to make positive statements. So, instead of saying, "No running, yelling, hitting," you could say, "Walk next to me," "Talk in a quiet voice," "Keep your hands to yourself." It's a lot easier to list a few things that are ok to do rather than the multitude of things you don't want them to do.
> ...


Agreed about the positive statements.

It's always when he's back. When he's gone I feel like things are a well oiled machine. I'm tired but we get thru and we are happy as clams, no bedtime issues, etc. Then when he comes home, it's disrupted. It leads to me being resentful of him being home, too.

Both kids asleep by 830 tonight! I guess I did wear them out somehow, lol. I thought we'd be up late for sure.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> It's always when he's back. When he's gone I feel like things are a well oiled machine. I'm tired but we get thru and we are happy as clams, no bedtime issues, etc. Then when he comes home, it's disrupted. It leads to me being resentful of him being home, too.


That's where to start looking for the solution, then. What can you and Chris do to make the transition more peaceful? You said a while back that you are the disciplinarian and he's the good guy. Does she want extra time with Dad since he's home but you are trying to keep to a schedule? If so, could you relax the schedule at least for a bit? Or, is it the other way around? Are you more relaxed about things when he's gone but he wants things done more rigidly? If so, explain to him that things go easier if you make a slow change rather than an abrupt one.

I'm just brainstorming what the issues might be and what might work to make things better. Since I'm not there, I obviously don't really know what's going on. Shoot, lots of times when I am there with my own family I don't know what's going on.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Ya know what just occurred to me? Maybe she's not getting the attention she wants from Chris after he's been gone. That would explain her saying that she hates you and wants Daddy. Maybe you could schedule some special time for just her and Chris.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Hmm. Let me think. It could be any of those things!

When he's home...I think I relax the routine. Things are a little looser, not as strict.

I think she would LOVE more attention from him. I wish he would make her more of a priority.

I didn't mention this to you guys, I don't think, but there was one day in particular after he got back from a long trip, over a week gone. It was the first whole day back (he'd gotten home the night before, we were all well rested, etc) and we were all outside playing. Finn was getting tired so I went to put him for a nap. I got him down, and went back out to find Chris just playing on his phone, while Nora played alone. I asked him if he'd stay out with her so I could clean up the house a bit, and he could spend time with her. He gave me a look and said he would but he was bored. I was livid. I was hurt. How dare he say that about our daughter? Who he hadn't seen for over a week? Its comments and things like that that make me feel like he's just unhappy with us.

A friend of mine put it bluntly. Playing things with your kids isn't for YOU, you idiot. Play with your kid. Make her feel like she's amazing. It's not about how mentally stimulating it is for YOU! Ugh.

Needless to say I told him to put the phone away and play with her while I cleaned. I couldn't even believe him at that moment and I was too upset to deal with it any other way.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Carrie: someone told me once that toddlers don't hear the negative, so when you say, DON'T do X, they hear do x, which is frustrating al round. I try really hard to tell Gabe what he can do, vs what he can't.

Husbands: no advice. Sometimes hands off works. But most of the time kids crave interaction. Force a daddy/daughter date?

Gabe has been better the last couple days. Maybe one of those mercury in retrograde things again.

Busy weekend ahead.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Idk. I think he's got a big head about his job. This is just me talking out my ass, but I think he feels super important/big hot shot and then he comes back home to us and we are little people or something? And not as interesting? Idk. I wonder what he expects.

Katrina - I agree! It's much more effective to list what you can do in general. Coming off the last shopping trip tho, I just wanted to be super clear about what I would not tolerate. You know? It's all a crap shoot anyway.

When do they stop being toddlers and start being kids? I feel like Nora just isn't a toddler anymore. She's such a KID to me! Ugh, such a big girl.

I know all I do is complain lately but honestly, my heart and soul could not love these children any more. They are why I live and breathe.







We are just in rough patch I think. Maybe even Nora senses all the issues DH and I are having.

Is it the weekend already?? OMG. Where did the week go?


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Maybe the time in Disney, where it's all family all the time, will help.

Carrie - I would like the wrap - no rush, but making sure that didn't get lost in the shuffle.

I have too much crammed in as usual. Walking with mama friends this morning, working,, then off to the strawberry festival an hour or more away with my sister, for Gabe to ride rides and listen to a concert by a friend's band that is taking off - Paper Tongues - I love their stuff - and spend Saturday doing more festival stuff and maybe IKEA. Do not ask me how I have the energy or wherewithall to do all this crap. I want to do it, it will get done, and we will have a good time doing it!

Coffee. Lots of Coffee.

Oh, and Gabe has his first sunburn  We didn't use sunscreen this time, bc we weren't out for very long, and were in shade a good part of the time.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Oh I didn't forget! Chris has a pp account so once I can talk to him (he was gone yesterday) I'll ask him for it and then I'll ship it out Monday! Oh. Let me go on FB and get your address! Yay!

We slept so good last night! I needed it! Nora did her usual 12+ hours and Finn only woke for a quick nurse at 11, 2, and then 5. Back to sleep and then up for the day at 8. So nice. This is what I could get used to. If he drops that 2 am, it would be PERFECT.

Nora didn't sleep like this while nursing EVER. She was an up every hour baby until well past a year. So. Not to jinx it but I hope our luck continues.

School day today, and not much else planned. I talked briefly to DH about looking into a cleaning lady to come like 1 or 2 times a month to deep clean the kitchen/bathroom, dust fans, etc. He gave me the go ahead to start looking!







Sanity, you are closer than I thought!


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Subbing! How is it May (4th!!!!) already?

I agree - boys are silly when they think that going to work is an excuse to unplug when they get home. I actually would RATHER go to work some days just to break up the monotony of my life! I really really look forward to Sat nights (when I go to work) sometime. I get to actually get away from the consistent "mommy, mommy, mommy".

Some days my kids are good, some days not. Usually they are in between. The baby is really starting to get her own attitude.....for the moment it is still pretty cute!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Yay! I am excited, it has such pretty colors in it!

And hooray for good sleep. What sleep I got was good (we didn't get to bed until 1 - all for good cause, but still) but need more! I got some sweet pics of the 2 of them while nursing today, there is a lot of boob in the shots, but whatever.

I agree - I love my one day in the office! - makes me miss and appreciate my family. GTG work . . .ugh. so glad it's Friday!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I thought last night that I should have said, all mothers who have a second job rather than just WOHMs, Kat.







You obviously don't come out of your home office after being holed up all day and then just zone out with some other media.

I don't think there's really anything wrong with Chris saying that he's bored. Like I said before, I get bored fast when out by myself doing things for the kids. I get bored at home by myself with the kids, too. One thing that does help me is to shift my mind away from all the things I'm thinking in my mind that I need to do or could be doing instead and totally focus on the kids. Or, take something to occupy myself while they play. Of course, if I were gone for a week, I'd focus on the kids rather than something to distract me while they play. I don't know if Chris would be open to hearing that.

Carrie ~ I would tell him how you feel about him thinking you guys are less than or something. Try to do it in a non-accusatory way. Make "I" statements rather than "You" statements. Gah! Tried to come up with a good example but I can't right now. Basically, the sentence would go, "I feel ___ when you ___ because ___." You could even leave out the "because" part if you can't come up with a way to say it without sounding accusatory. That's the part where I'm getting stuck.









I'm feeling a lot better being here, just having another adult to talk to daily is nice. I started Zoloft the day before yesterday. I think it kept me from sleeping last night. I was sitting in the living room at 9 pm barely able to keep my head up and eyes open but when I went to bed I couldn't sleep. I was awake until at least 2:30 am. Dylan woke up around 7:45. We stayed in bed and I let him flop around for a while and he actually fell back to sleep. We didn't get up again until almost 10! Oh, the newest thing is that I say, "Dylan, lay down. Everyone is sleeping," and he immediately flops down where ever he is and is still. It's so cute. I think he's still tricking me about being asleep, though, because as soon as I think he's out and try to roll over he pops back up. hehe


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Carrie ~ I have to share something that I think you'll get a kick out of. My mom is making food for a vegan potluck that some people at her church are having tonight. Ethan went with her when she went shopping for the food. She's making a curry so she bought some yogurt to make that cucumber/yogurt cream sauce that goes with curry a lot. Ethan pointed out to her that yogurt was not vegan since it's dairy. She hadn't realized.







I'm not sure how Ethan knew that. He must have just put two and two together from hearing me talk about vegan stuff.


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Carrie ~ I have to share something that I think you'll get a kick out of. My mom is making food for a vegan potluck that some people at her church are having tonight. Ethan went with her when she went shopping for the food. She's making a curry so she bought some yogurt to make that cucumber/yogurt cream sauce that goes with curry a lot. Ethan pointed out to her that yogurt was not vegan since it's dairy. She hadn't realized.
> 
> ...


What a smart kid! I was actually confused by the whole vegetarian/vegan thing. I think the first time I heard vegan I wondered if it was different from vegetarian. I figured it was since it was a different name! LOL

I think a TV show is actually when I figured out that it was no animal by-products at all. Strangely enough - Carmelite Nuns are always vegetarian and then during Lent they are Vegan (I never realized there was a name for it growing up). Of course, they do it for penance purposes. You lead a life of penance Carrie









MW - Glad you're feeling better!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Ooops! I stopped getting notifications, but I thought it had been a day or two, not almost a week!

I keep forgetting, but in the member list- my due date was 12/01 not 12/10. Baby girl was two days early- ironically, my sister and I were both two days early as well!

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes* 

... I got him down, and went back out to find Chris just playing on his phone, while Nora played alone. I asked him if he'd stay out with her so I could clean up the house a bit, and he could spend time with her. He gave me a look and said he would but he was bored. I was livid. I was hurt. How dare he say that about our daughter? Who he hadn't seen for over a week? Its comments and things like that that make me feel like he's just unhappy with us.

A friend of mine put it bluntly. Playing things with your kids isn't for YOU, you idiot. Play with your kid. Make her feel like she's amazing. It's not about how mentally stimulating it is for YOU! Ugh.

Needless to say I told him to put the phone away and play with her while I cleaned. I couldn't even believe him at that moment and I was too upset to deal with it any other way.

Rob does stuff like that. I'll hand off T and tell him I just need some time alone. I'll come back 10 minutes later to find him on the computer, holding her, while she watches tv. Like... her playmat with all her toys is two feet away. Sit your ass down and PLAY with her! I have her for 22+ hours a day. He can play with her for 30 minutes without turning a movie on. I even pointed it out to him, and he got upset. His reasoning is that if she's happy watching baby einstein isn't that what matters. Except that-- she's 5 months old. I use the stupid video for 15 minutes so I can eat breakfast in the morning, but I don't want her watching it when we're perfectly able to be playing with her!

Quote:
Originally Posted by *MarineWife* 

I don't think there's really anything wrong with Chris saying that he's bored. Like I said before, I get bored fast when out by myself doing things for the kids. I get bored at home by myself with the kids, too. One thing that does help me is to shift my mind away from all the things I'm thinking in my mind that I need to do or could be doing instead and totally focus on the kids. Or, take something to occupy myself while they play. 


> I'm feeling a lot better being here, just having another adult to talk to daily is nice. I started Zoloft the day before yesterday. I think it kept me from sleeping last night. I was sitting in the living room at 9 pm barely able to keep my head up and eyes open but when I went to bed I couldn't sleep. I was awake until at least 2:30 am.


^^It's hard because it's two different things. I totally get being 'bored' playing with the kids. But that doesn't give him an excuse not to put an effort into it! She thinks you walk on water-- earn some of that! lol

I was on citalopram (Celexa) for a short time, and I had some similar symptoms. I would be tired, but then when I tried to sleep my mind would just race. I ended up going off it really suddenly because I couldn't stand the way it made me feel. I told my doctor that after 3 weeks of being on it, I totally get why one of the rare side effects is suicide attempts. I was actually on it as an anti-anxiety med to help me sleep, and once I did fall asleep, I slept well. But when I was awake, I felt like I was coming out of my skin. It was like I could feel the adrenalin pumping through my body, and my mind would race all over the place, even talking seemed weird because I could keep one thought in my mind long enough. It was horrible. Absolutely horrible.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Hi ladies!!

MW - I knew you'd say that there's nothing wrong with him being bored! I just think it's too easy to use that as an excuse to be lazy. When you're bored with the kids do you tell them that? Or tune them out? No. You do what you do b/c you are their role model and teacher and guide in this life. Your feelings might be there, fine (I mean, please, playing trains isn't the most mentally stimulating part of my day either) but exactly what JJ said. Earn your stripes. BE the parent you want to be, don't phone it in.

It's moot anyway b/c since we talked he is for sure changing. He has taken the kids on a walk so I could run, taken Nora out shopping on his own, cleaned up the house on Friday when I was out running errands all day. It's so nice. I feel like I'm not the only person in the house anymore! I walk into the kitchen and someone else has done dishes. It's amazing and I love it. I think slowly my walls are coming down, brick by brick.









Ethan is so wise! Ha! That's great!

I was on a bunch of different antidepressants thru my 20s and finally, after trying a few, the one that worked best for me was Effexor. Everyone is different. Give this one a shot, but ultimately if you feel like you aren't your self, or can't sleep, or feel itchy to get out of your skin, you can try a different combination. I'm so glad though you have more support with your mom. Excellent news.









AFM - Finn was so restless last night! And the night before, tbh. Just wiggly, and floppy, and constantly moving and what not. (Kind of like how Dylan must be sometimes...) Which is not like Finn. He's normally a passed out cold sort of baby. Mama needs more coffee!! And hopefully, since there's no shopping to do today, I can nap with him midday while Nora is at school. If not, there's always more coffee!

Our seeds all sprouted! I have to look up when to transplant them. I want to get them in pots before we leave for Disneyworld. (in EIGHT DAYS!!







)


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I swear, you guys seem to misunderstand what I say a lot.







I must not be very good at expressing my thoughts. Or maybe I missed the important point of what Carrie was saying about being angry that Chris said that. I said I didn't seen anything wrong with him _saying_ he's bored. I didn't say that was an acceptable reason not to pay attention to the kids. I think it's important for spouses/partners to be able to express negative feelings about their kids with each other without fear of being judged or attacked for it.

If he says he's bored, maybe he needs some ideas of things to do with her. Or, maybe he feels uncomfortable doing things with her because she's a girl. I think a lot of men have that problem. They can be rough and tumble with their boys but don't think they can do that with girls. I think a lot of times they aren't even aware that they are making the distinction. I'm not good at playing so I follow my boys' lead. A lot of times they tell me exactly what to say and do and I just copy them. They don't seem to mind. I feel really awkward and stupid trying to come up with imaginative play on my own and then I don't want to do it because I don't want to look stupid or silly. Maybe Chris needs to hear that it's ok for him to follow Nora's lead and ask her what she wants him to do.

And, yes, I do tell my boys when I'm bored. I don't say I'm bored with them. I say I'm bored with whatever we are doing and ask if they want to do something else. One thing I cannot do with them is play video games. I do not like doing that. For one, I can't figure out how to work one of the controllers, too many buttons on every surface.







Second, I get too hyped up and don't like the way I feel physically. I don't do well with competition. So, I tell them I will sit with them while they play. I will try to pay attention long enough to watch them. I will listen to them tell me all about the game (even though I have no idea what they are talking about most of the time). But I will not play with them.

I've taken Zoloft off and on for many years now. It works for me. I've tried many other drugs. I can't remember the first few because that was 27 years ago. (Holy cow!) Wellbutrin and Lexapro made me feel the way you described, JJ. I actually ended up in the ER for heart palpitations because of Wellbutrin before anyone told me that was a s/e. The one time I took Lexapro it kept me up all night. I refused to take it again.

I'm debating what to do about the dosing. The doctor said to take 25 mg a day for the first week and then go to 50 mg the 2nd week and stay there until I can see him again. But it takes at least 2 weeks to start to feel the full effects of it so I'm thinking maybe I'll stay on 25 mg for 2 weeks just to see. I'd prefer to be on the lowest dose possible and I think 50 mg was the highest I took before. I've only been on it for 5 days and I've been sleeping a lot better. I feel much better during the day, more energy or at least motivation to do things, better able to pay attention to my kids and what they are saying. I don't know if that's from the meds or from being here. All I know is that I feel like I can breathe again. I've realized one of the huge differences about being with my mom with my kids and being with Sean. My mom really seems to enjoy having the kids around and doing things for them. Sean always seemed annoyed.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I've been following along, but not posting much. Not much new with us.

MW: I am so glad between the change of scene and the addition of meds that you are feeling much better. I am with you though, if the lowest dose makes life that much easier and seems to help, why bump it up?

Didn't know so many were on anti deppressants. I sincerely hope I never need them (though I am glad they help those that do need them).

Re: Play - generally I follow Gabe's lead, but I do lead him sometimes, like with playdough. when I first handed him some, he was like, WTF? so I showed him how to roll balls and make snakes, "cut" it with a blunt knife, etc, and now he loves it and tries new things with it. No, it's not very exciting stuff, most of the time. TBH, 9/10 times, I do hang back, play on my iPhone, and only get involved when he asks me to. Not because it's that boring, or whatever, but because I love watching him discover things on his own. I only take major issue with DH (or MIL, etc) doing the same if Gabe is ASKING them to play and they are like. . . .wait a minute, or a few minutes, let me do x (which is usually singularly unimportant) first, or the worst - not right now .. .I mean, seriously, get off your butt and play. Which doesn't happen as much anymore, but when it does, really irks me.

we are so busy with everything . . .DH is wavering between the place he's doing massage now, and going to work for a friend whose vision for her business more closely models his own, and who is 10 minutes closer to home, if not more . . . I just want him to be happy wherever he chooses.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

With multiple kids in my house, I have a different view of playtime. If they are engaged in something which means they are not actively engaged in a fight, either verbal or physical, with a sibling, then I have ZERO problem encouraging their play for hours! It's not boring to me, it's a break from the chaos! I'll do just about anything they ask me to do if it keeps the bickering at a minimum. I hate BICKERING! Usually though my kids just need to know that I'm available for play. They don't actually want me to sit there the whole time with them. And since there are so many of them, I can't play video games with them for hours because we all have to take turns. So I'll do a few songs on Rock Band and then share with another kid. Honestly though I don't mind playing with them. Especially when they were younger, I would buy toys that I liked too! One Christmas, I got DSD 13 a Playmobil doll house. DH joked that he wasn't sure who enjoyed it more, me or DSD! The one thing I hate doing but that they love to do is play board games. But I try to make an effort to say yes at least some of the time that they invite me to play. Because honestly there are a lot of times where I feel like I'm just ignored and treated like the maid in the house. So when they "notice" me and ask me to play, I want to be able to say yes. Even if it's Apples to Apples which they love and makes me want to poke my eyes out!

We finished DD's baptism yesterday. Whew! It was fun but a busy day. DD did great. She truly loves people. Like zero stranger anxiety. But she seems to have a pretty good internal judgement of who is a reasonable person. She doesn't go to everyone. But she LOVES the attention. She was so tired but as long as people were paying attention to her, she was all smiles. Everyone kept remarking how happy she is. I'd love to say that it's because we practice AP but I know that isn't the magical solution. I think there are plenty of babies whose parents practice AP that are not attention whores like DD appears to be! Hahaha! I shouldn't be surprised. DH has never met a stranger and it appears that DD hasn't either. Strangers are just new friends to her!

I want to get that new book that I posted the link to on FB but I need to wait for pay day...another week! Boo!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I get what you're saying, mw, I do. I guess I just disagree - I don't think it's cool to tell the kids you're bored and don't want to play with them. I think it's fine to maybe see if you could find something you all agree on (at least most of the time) but it just feels mean! If I want to do something and Chris says to me, "Ugh, do I have to? That's boring." It hurts my feelings. Even if it's a movie I want to see that he hasn't read the book for. Or even if it's something that just interests me, I would like for him to make an effort.

Also he said it within earshot of Nora and...well...that bugs me.

Maybe it's assigning grown up feelings to a child, but I just think it would make the child feel bad to constantly be told what they like to do is boring.









I'm reading a great parenting book for the preschooler-age child. It's called How to Behave So Your Preschooler Will Too. , and has so much information on really how to talk to them and capture their attention. There is no behavior modification, mw, really just learning how to communicate with them so you yourself do not get frustrated and flip out. I'm employing so many of the techniques and already - my stress level is so much lower!

I also bought the Mayim Bialik book, Lauri! I had to, it just looks so good! So now I'm reading THREE books! LOL! Mockingjay, and those two!

I started counting WW points again on Saturday. Wow. I was really overeating! I've already lost about 3 lbs - crazy. It's water, I know, but still - 3 lbs down is 3 lbs down! I'm 139 and I really hope that is the LAST i see of those damn 140s! I'm hoping to keep going until vacation and then we'll see how I do on the trip. I'm not paying, just doing it by memory.

Lauri - so cute "attention whore"! LOL!! Finn is the opposite. The sight of a stranger and his lip goes out and he starts frantically looking for me or clinging to me! He warms up pretty fast but he is just very socially shy! I secretly love it.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

IDK, Annie, I think you can take credit for a lot of her happiness thanks to AP. I get comments all the time about how happy and smiley Dylan is. I was talking to my mom about it last night because her boyfriend commented on it (again). I asked them if it was unusual for a baby to be happy because I get so many comments about it with Dylan. Seems normal to me but it's not, necessarily. My mom agreed that it has a lot to do with how a baby is treated. She says in her experience a lot of people don't do things like pick a baby, even a very young baby, up right away when they start fussing. They think they are disciplining the baby but it has the opposite effect. The less the baby is picked up, the more fussy the baby is. Of course, that's all in general terms. There are exceptions.

Carrie ~ Did Nora ask Chris to play and he told her he didn't want to because he was bored? Or, did he just tell you he was bored? I don't see those as the same thing. I'm also not advocating telling a child you are bored with whatever they are doing all the time. If you do say yes and play and pay attention most of the time, the child will be a lot more understanding, a lot less likely to be hurt, those times when you say no. I can see how it would be a problem if Chris ignored Nora and said he was bored every time she asked for his attention. I didn't see that in what you described, though.

I think you have to be very careful about projecting your feelings onto your child. Watch the child for a reaction. If she's fine playing by herself while Chris sits there, I think that's fine. Like Kat said, it's good sometimes to sit on the sidelines and just let kids play. You can be available and pay attention without constantly being actively involved.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

He told me he was bored.

Maybe now that I reflect on the situation, it wasn't as big of a deal as I'm making it out to be.

He didn't say it to her, but she was right there. She could hear him. She was playing in her sandbox. They hear *everything* even when you think they aren't listening, so I try to be careful of what I, myself, say within earshot.

Idk. I think it's a sad, sad image when I look outside and she is playing by herself and he is sitting there buried in his phone. I see that as the future, with how technology is. I dont want us all sitting in the same room staring at screens. I want interaction, talking. That's not to say people can't ever relax or use computers or phones, that's not realistic. But...idk. I need to develop these thoughts more I suppose.

I agree about the happy baby comments. I get them all the time, and I did for Nora was she was an infant too. I think AP does play a HUGE role in how their demeanor is.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Maybe it is because of the AP? I feel bad sometimes because one of my friends that has a 2 year old is always commenting about how happy DD is. They did sleep training/CIO w/the 2 yr old and they are not very responsive to him until he reaches maximum scream levels. So he's always crying/screaming about something. He's just not a happy kid. I don't really recall a time when he was happy. Even as a tiny baby, he would be screaming his head off and I could tell he was WAY overstimulated and his dad would be in his face doing all kinds of silly stuff trying to get him to stop crying. And he would just scream more. And DD is just so chill when we are out and thrives on the stimulus and attention. She has her moments but it's when we're home alone and she's tired or whatever. And it doesn't last long because I can usually figure out something to get her to stop crying. I just wonder how much personality plays in to it you know?

I don't think I would tell the kids if an activity was boring me. Because I don't like it when they tell me that something I want them to do is boring them. It hurts my feelings like Baby_Cakes said and it also feels rude to me when they say it. So I usually try to find another emotion that also describes how I'm feeling. If the video game is stressing me out or making me motion sick, then I say that. If I am stressing because I really need to get laundry/dishes/etc. done instead of playing a board game, then I say that. I think that my kids use the catch-phrase "bored/boring" too easily and they don't give new activities a chance before they label it as "boring".


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Yeah, they do hear everything and I do think it's important to watch what we say in front of them. But I think it's just as important to watch how they react to situations rather than just assuming they would react/feel the same way I do. KWIM?

I don't get up upset when my kids tell me they are bored if they truly are. It does bother me when they say something is going to be boring before they even try it. Ethan has started doing that whenever I come up with something for us to do, like going to Fort Macon. He didn't want to go. He swore he was going to be sooooooo bored! Once we got there he had a lot of fun running around pretending like he was in the Civil War. So, yeah, I get not wanting to get into that back and forth with the kids but I do want my kids to be honest with me. If they really don't like doing something, I want them to feel safe telling me without having to worry about hurting my feelings. My feelings are my responsibility, not my kids'.

I think personality can play into how much AP-type attention a baby/child needs. That's what AP is about, though, responding to the needs of each, individual child. Then the personality doesn't matter so much because each one is getting what s/he needs.

I got a 2 hour nap this evening. Crazy! Dylan, Kellen and I all took a nap together. Kellen is sick. He's had a fever hovering around 103 since yesterday. I noticed him feeling hot the day before but he said he felt fine so I didn't worry about it. Yesterday and last night it was high, though. He threw up twice, too. He seemed better today but then felt hot again after the nap. I can't believe I'm not totally worn out by it but I'm not. It's all good.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I get what you are saying MW, but I also think that "bored/boring" is such a generic word. I feel like my kids use it way too much and it's not their true feeling. They may be tired, or hungry or we're watching/doing something that's not interesting to them but it all gets wrapped up under the word "bored". And I guess the way they say it sounds so rude to me. Like not only is the activity boring to them but also my company is boring to them. Does that make sense? I know this is a bit different than what we started talking about but it's the background for why I try to find different words. And really, I'd like to model to them that there are some things that may be boring but if you enjoy the people you are with, you can still have fun. Or sometimes you do an activity that may not be the most fun thing you've ever done but you do it because a person you love is asking you to do it and you love them so you do it.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Gabe isn't feeling so well either, don't know what's up - very low grade temp (99.9) and sleepy, no appetite. He ate yesterday: one bite of watermelon, a go-gurt, one shrimp, one piece of sausage, and some ice cream. He's still drinking plenty. He just seems really sad. It's shakeable (I can get him a little cheered up) but generally sad.

Bored/Boring. My kids are little, nearly everything they do is kinda boring (I don't really love making 5 dozen play dough snakes) play wise, but I do it because they want me too. I don't say I'm bored, but once he's wrapped up in an activity enough to do it independently I run like hell (well sit back and play the iphone, or start working on something nearby) But I agree, I really dislike the term Bored/Boring - it almost always comes from a rude place.

My sister's friend is kinda AP (we haven't really talked about it) but she baby wears, breast feeds . . . not sure about where baby sleeps . . . but she wears her in a RS alot. And that baby is super clingy and fussy. My sister and her friends have a competition going about how long one of them can hold the baby before she cries, it's like 30 some odd seconds. I tell you, she (my sister) is continually surprised at how the opposite of that Norah is. She's pretty happy with anybody holding her (but looks for me), can play on the floor by herself for a while, etc - she's just such an easy, happy baby. I think the way we parent enhances or brings out her personality that much more. I also think that if my sister's friend wasn't doing some AP stuff, that their baby would be way fussier and less happy.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

My sister posted a link that is exactly what I'm talking about!!! I put it on my feed but thought I'd share it here too for our non FB users.

http://www.handsfreemama.com/?p=3942

I'm guilty of a few of those myself! Especially checking my phone at stoplights. I'm going to tuck it in my purse now and not look at it during car rides.

I think I was annoyed more at the fact that he'd rather use his phone than hang out or supervise Nora, or even clean up the yard while she plays alone. You guys are right, he doesn't need to be on top of her, but I think I am more upset at the fact he'd rather be checking his feed or surfing a forum (as fun as it is







) than hang out with her. Even just physically if not engaged with her.

Can we talk about cute things kids say? Anyone have some good ones??

Last night at bedtime, Nora and I were talking about us moving to a bigger house. I said it would be hard for me b/c I have lots of memories here. I asked her what memories she had of our house, and she thought a moment and said, "I was born here. I wasn't born in a hospital, and Finn was born here," Mamas, I was so proud! Ha! I told her those were my memories too, so it would be hard to leave. And she goes, "No, mama, it won't be hard to leave, we can just get a truck!"

Made me smile. She's so funny!

Kat - Me or Chris will try to make it to the post office today to mail out that wrap! Thanks again!!







You know I need to see pictures of you and squishybutt Norah using it once you get it !!!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Annie ~ I agree that "bored" can be used too much. I've been meaning to post (my posts always seem to be way too long) that I am much less likely to be or get bored if I fully focus on my kids. If I let my brain run on all the things I'd like or need to do, I get bored a lot faster. I'm distracted, though, not bored.

I don't get the phone thing because I don't have a smart phone. I've been thinking of getting one. Maybe I shouldn't. My phone does have internet but I've never figured out how to use it. It's so freakin' slow. I really only want one for the GPS. Mine got stolen from my car but it was so handy for finding places like restaurants and gas stations while driving.

I don't have any cute kid sayings right now. I'll have to pay attention and post some later. They are always saying something cute or funny.

I love that Nora has some special about that house but she's also not so attached that she can't leave.

Annie ~ Did we decide we are going to meet near the Marine Corps Museum? I don't think I ever definitively answered you. That's fine with me if it works for you and the 25th is fine, too. Although, Sean pointed out that is Memorial Day weekend, in case that matters to you. It doesn't to me. Oh, except that traffic might be crazy.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Carrie: hooray, and of course I will post a pic!

I love that Nora has such good memories. and how smart!

As for cute kid sayings, Gabe is really only one or two words at a time at the moment, so I got nothing. He DOES cute things. I was nursing Norah at the park in my typical pull tank up, cami down thing on a bench, and he came over and said "stuck?" I said yes, she's stuck on the boob. He kept trying to cover her up with my tank. and push her head more into my boob. It was very cute.

I need to be better with the phone too. I don't talk to anyone on the phone - rarely DH or my mom - I use it for text, email and facebook (and games, but I don't play those while driving) I am tying to be less connected to facebook. but it's HARD.

I am walking with friends a couple days a week! hooray for excersise and using my expensive stroller! LOL


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Not so much something funny that Kellen said but funny what I thought he said. He's been singing that song, "I Believe I can Fly," by R Kelly. When he sings the line, "spread my wings and fly away," it sounds to me like, "fat Marines fly away."







I thought that was what he said at first and he looked at me like I was nuts.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

So, Gabe fell asleep at 7:30 last night. Which means he was up at 6 a.m. woot. Norah was super restless, could NOT stay asleep. I don't feel like we really got into a good sleep until after 2 a.m. This means I need a BIG coffee this morning.

Our local AP group has been full of mama drama. I have friends on both sides of the "issue" and in wanting to maintain said friendships, I just watch. Circumsision is the big thing. I really don't thing it should be done as a routine hospital procedure. Really do NOT. However, we do have people who have chosen that path, and beyond that, we do have a Jewish family whose son is circ'd also. And I told this mama, who is a sweet woman and good friend, that IF you are going to do such a thing, the ritual circ is far less traumatic. baby has had time to recover from the trauma of birth, to bond with his parents, and the ceremony is done surrounded by people who love him. (I still think it's unnecessary, but I am not about to tell someone that their G-D is wrong about something like that) But we have people who have jumped on the whole, it should be illegal, even for religous reasons, and then they backpedal and say, well we didn't mean *you* speaking of the Jewish family. And then the Admins of the group decide to adopt some rules (copied nearly verbatim from boards like MDC and TBW) and people chime in saying they are grown and don't need rules. (Obviously not, if someone can't even ask a question about intact care without it becoming a discussion about the rights and wrongs of circ)

Anyway . . . . friends have left said group over the drama. It makes me sad. I am not leaving, because outside the stupid stuff, they are really good people and I need friends IRL to commiserate about cosleeping, extended breastfeeding, and all that jazz.

Funny - I love watching Gabe bop his head along to Yo Gabba Gabba and the Fresh Beat Band. It cracks me up.

How are ya'll doing? sleep much?


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Not much sleep here. Dylan was very restless last night and then woke up around 7:30. That's unheard of in my home.







I'm hoping to get a nap later.

Kellen seems to be better. He's not burning up like he was before. He was burning hot to the touch.

I'd have to agree with the people who say routine circumcision should be illegal, even in the case of religious doctrine. Religion shouldn't be able to be used as an excuse for violence against children.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

for no sleep. My coffee isn't helping much.

Glad Kellen is feeling better. did it just run its course? Gabe seems to sleep his fevers off. We have yet to need to resort to pharmaceutical intervention (not that I'm against it, I just think its a last resort)

I'm meh about it - I don't think insurance should cover it. It's not a medically necessary procedure. But I'm not really for goverment dictating how people should practice their religion either. So I can see both sides. I do NOT understand why someone, who is otherwise AP minded would choose to routinely circ (as in hospital based sort). I know a mom in our group that has done so for her boys. that, I do not understand. But she is also a nurse, so perhaps the whole (eye rolling smiley) reduces STD's and penile cancer arguement swayed her. IDK.

Any big plans for mother's day, y'all?


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Oh, Kat that's a hard one. I'm sorry the group is having issues like that. That's so unfortunate. Hopefully once the dust settles there will still be some good people left to talk with about the stuff you DO agree on.

Not everyone is going to agree always. It's the nature of things.

But I'm with MW. If it's illegal for girls it should be illegal for boys. I just think there are other ways, besides performing surgery on a non consenting person, to bring someone into your religion. A ritual, a rite, or something that does NOT harm their body. They can make the choice when they are older if they really feel it is necessary.

No sleep here. NONE. I even had to get up and rock Finn last night b/c he was so restless and I could NOT nurse him again (for the 3rd time in an hour). He needs to pop that tooth or learn to crawl. Both things are just making him super restless and wakeful. And kicky! Oh man, the kicking!

And I'm starting to wonder about autism. Are there signs this early? In my fog of non-sleep last night, I kept thinking I need to google for what the early signs are. He has started doing this strange shaking his head no thing that seems really weird! And he's always signing milk! Always! I think it means everything - milk, hi, by, mom, i'm scared/sad/happy. It just looks so crazy and of course I'm over thinking it. WDYT?

Anyway HUGE coffee day here too!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I think it's normal for a baby to sign the same thing over and over if that's what he knows. I think the big thing with autism would be not making eye contact and smiling at people's faces. I have issues with the whole autism label, though, so I say don't focus on something like that, especially when he's so young.

I don't think the government should regulate religion as long as it's not harming anyone. But when religion advocates harming others, someone needs to step in.

I let Kellen's illness run it's course. He's still congested and not 100% but the fever is down/gone. I got some ibuprofen in case his fever got to 104 or above but didn't need to give it to him. His temp didn't go above 103, which Dr. Sears says is ok in older babies and children.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I typed out a response and lost it. Hate that!

last bit on circ (because mainly I think we agree on it, LOL) - were I Jewish, I'd opt for a bris shalom, which is a similiar ceremony, but no cutting. But I am not, and would choose not to beat my friends up about it that are and choose to.

Autism: I think Finn is fine, but here are some links: http://www.autismspeaks.org/what-autism/learn-signs and here is a quiz but might not be gauged right for Finn's age http://pediatrics.about.com/od/autism/l/bl_autism.htm

Very glad Kellen is mostly better. it's hard watching kids be not themselves.

Norah fell of the bed today. whoops. We have a bed rail, but there isn't a foot board, and she was in bed by herself . As soon as the crib is assembled, we will be be trying that out to see how she does (it's the crib my dad built, but needed to be reassembled since we moved)


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

MW, thanks for pointing out that female circ isn't legal in this country even though there are people that live here that say that doing that is a part of their cultural experience. We still don't say it's ok for them to do that. I hadn't thought about male circ in the Jewish community from that perspective. I reposted that article that Baby_Cakes posted on FB today. I so wish that a mainstream movie had addressed the circ issue more. Oh and I think the 25th will be fine. I don't mind that it's Mem Day weekend. Traffic will be crazy regardless because it's a Friday. I'll touch base with you as it gets closer. Right now, we only have one working vehicle so if we are still down to one, I won't be able to go. I'll let you know though.

Sleep stuff...we have good nights and bad nights. I experienced my first close friend judging my decision to not sleep train DD this past weekend. It was during the party after her baptism. My sister's best friend, who is like my other sister, asked me how DD is sleeping right now. I answered honestly because of who asked me. I said it depends and that the night before, she was up about every 30 mins to eat. She was like "Every 30 mins?!?" which drew the attention of DD's godmother, who is my regular physician, and she was like "Annie, you can't keep waking up every 30 mins! That's not good for you!". So I answered, she was hungry and they both shook their heads disapprovingly and my friend said "she's not hungry every 30 mins, she just wants you". I let it go but I was thinking about it later and it made me mad. I know when DD is hungry and when she isn't. Sometimes she goes back to sleep if I just give her the pacifier and sometimes she won't. Then I feed her. And so what if she's waking because she needs me? She obviously needs something otherwise she would be asleep! Then my friend asked me if I was still concerned about letting her cry because of her oxygen levels (which was something the docs cautioned us against when she was tiny and before her surgery) and I said "No, her oxygen levels are fine now. I'm not going to sleep train her." She dropped it after that. But I couldn't believe that they were freaking out about the 30 mins thing. I wasn't complaining about her sleep. My friend asked me a question and I answered it honestly. So strange.

Baby_Cakes, babies do a lot of repetitive behavior. I wouldn't be concerned about it. Now if he wasn't making eye contact and didn't display many emotions, I would be concerned. But doing the same thing over and over again, nah. But at the same time, if it's something that's bothering you, definitely get it checked out. I have learned to put a lot of value in mama intuition after DD's heart stuff.

AFM, DD has suddenly discovered her books. She LOVES them now. She wants me to read them to her over and over and over again. Which is very cute and I love that she is enjoying her books. I've started planning her birthday party. I was originally going to do The Very Hungry Caterpillar theme but she LOVES Elmo. Like loves him so much. I got her a little soft book from the dollar section at Target of Elmo and bathtime and she carries it with her everywhere now. So I think I'm going to do an Elmo/Sesame Street theme. My mom can make those cakes with the Wilton cake pans so I'm going to have her make the Elmo face for DD's smash cake. We'll probably have the party at my mom's house since it's larger and do a cookout. Very low-key. I hate rushing around and not enjoying the event.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Did I mention female circ? I think I may have a while back but not in the current conversation about it. It is the same, though. If we don't accept female circ under any circumstances, why would male circ get a pass for religious reasons?

I think a lot of people think that babies need to be sleep trained whether their waking bothers the parents or not. People seem to think that babies won't learn to sleep "properly" unless they are trained.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Whoops! Just went back and reread the thread and it was Baby_Cakes that mentioned that female circ is illegal. Sorry!

I guess you're, people think these babies are just going to keep waking during the night. I can already see DD's sleep habits changing, they seem to change every couple of weeks. What worked a few weeks ago to get her sleep may not work now and there are times in the early morning that if I just walk around with her for a couple of mins, she falls back deep asleep and I just lay her down. It's definitely not bothering me!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I mention when that Norah wakes up at night to some of my friends and they are surprised. She does, it's no big deal, and generally pretty easy to get her to go back to sleep. I  having IRL crunchy friends that co-sleep - it makes discussions easier, because you can kinda sorta complain without getting a bunch of sleep training advice thrown at you. i.e. I say "Last night I slept in maybe a foot wide piece of the bed, because she was sleeping sideways" Mainstream friends "you need to get her out of your bed, she'll be there forever!" and "you know you are going to have to let her cry it out eventually" Crunchy mama friend response: "LOL, one time I woke with DS's toe in my mouth!" and "maybe you need to add a twin next to your bed for extra space" world of difference and much more welcome.

Gabe has been so sweet with Norah this afternoon, hugging and kissing on her, trying to nurse her (LOL) - I love days like this!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Oh I so agree, Kat. I don't know what I would do if I didn't have IRL people to complain to about sleep issues. I felt such a void when my best friend CIO'ed when her baby girl (you all know that) and I find myself really not talking to her much anymore. If I want to pick up the phone to talk to a friend I choose someone else so that I can mention, omg I'm so tired, I need more coffee or something along those lines. I know if I tell her that, she won't be supportive or she'll be uncomfortable in the conversation. Isn't that sad? Sigh. What can you do? I suppose this is part of growing up.

And I do agree you choose your battles. It's hard when its something you are passionate about. I chose not to throw away this friendship, and not harp on it after we vented our feelings, but I could have easily been more aggressive and ended it.

At the end of the day, it's their choice (cio, circ). Even if we think the fact that they HAVE the choice is wrong, they do have the choice, and if they make an educated decision, we have to deal with that how we see fit.

People get so caught up with babies sleeping thru the night. Like it's such a cross we bear. I mean, come on -- you have children, you KNOW you aren't going to get much sleep the first few years.

I don't think Finn has autism (especially after reading those links, thanks). I think it was a very crazy dream-like paranoia.

We took a nap today and oh man. The clouds have parted in my brain! Such a welcome feeling! Chris was OOT today and should be home by 11 or so. Both kids asleep in bed! Dinner - Finn ate HALF an entire boca burger and bun. Completely finished it. I couldn't believe my own eyes! He's redic.

Kat - so sweet! I love when the kids get along. So nice!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Wow, I don't think we're doing any more than usual, but it seems like I'm so much busier all of a sudden. I'm trying to keep up!

Re: the sleep training. I think it so depends on what your 'aim' in it is. I don't -get- people who think that babies should sleep through the night. It just doesn't make sense. That said-- we were at a point where T was waking every 45 minutes, and the only way she could get back to sleep was by nursing, even if she'd nursed for 30 minutes, and then only been asleep for 10-- she still needed to nurse again before falling asleep. The first little bit it was frustrating, but ok, but then it started affecting our daytime as well- I was so sleep deprived that I was not being a great mother- I wasn't playing attention, I was losing my patience way too easy, and I was grumpy at her for everything. I got the no cry sleep solution book, and just reading through the general premises seems to have helped us so far. The book talks about how when you nurse to sleep all the time, the baby associates falling asleep with nursing, and when they wake up in the middle of the night, they don't know any other way to get back to sleep other than nursing. If you woke up in the middle of the night, tired, you would be frustrated if you didn't know how to go back to sleep too!

So we slowly moved her away from nursing to sleep at night- now we nurse, and then before she technically falls asleep, I unlatch her, and then we finish cuddling and/or rocking. Sometimes she'll fuss and I'll have to put her back on, but I do it right away so she's not getting upset, and as many times as she needs. Sometimes right now that means I'm unlatching and relatching 8 times before she settles, but it's worth it for her not to be crying, but still learning other ways to fall asleep. And now, she nurses at night about every three hours, with normally a 4-5 hour stretch at the start of the night. And I can tell right away when I go in whether she needs to nurse, or whether she'll go back to sleep quickly with me just cuddling her. I've also noticed the last week or so, she's having more times where she'll call out, but then I go to her door, and she's silent, and when I look in, she's back asleep already, before I've even gotten there. So she's waking up, but realizing she's not hungry and then going back to sleep herself.

The whole premise is that if you keep going, you get to the point where you can nurse them, then do their bedtime routine, and have them fall asleep rocking, or in their bed alone, etc whatever it is -you- want (as opposed to baby whisperer who is sooo adament that baby needs to be in their crib, and fall asleep without your help at all), and then sleep 5-1o hours at a time. While I would love for her to become even less dependent on nursing to sleep (she still needs it for naps, and it's touch and go in the evening still), I'm ok with the every 3 hours wakeups. That seems totally reasonable to me! Would it be wonderful to have her sleep say 8 hours in a row? Absolutely. Does it worry me that she doesn't, and will I actively try to encourage that? No. I want her to be -able- to fall asleep on her own, when she wakes up and doesn't need anything else. But if she needs to nurse, or just needs some cuddles in the middle of the night, then heck yeah, I'm going to be there to give them to her!

Anyways, I've been meaning to share that with you guys, so it's just funny that it came up. I want to devote a little bit more attention to following the suggestions this week, but I've been so pleased with it! Her night time sleeps are really fine now, but I think if we could get her naps a little longer, it would go such a long way to helping her be more happy during the day. She used to nap for 2 hours ish as long as I was in bed with her, but now even when I'm in bed, she can't seem to sleep for longer than 40 minutes at a time. But then she wakes up grumpy. Hoping the having other sleeping skills will help her to stay relaxed when she wakes up, and then either put herself back to sleep, or allow me to, instead of getting frustrated at being awake, and working herself up so she wakes up fully.

I don't have any IRL friends that are mothers. That said, I don't have a lot of IRL friends at all. I do have a large large group of like-minded parents whom I've started interacting with, but even though their local, it's mostly online. We try to do playdates, but I don't feel like any of them are 'friends' yet. It's still nice to have someone who is 'on your side' though.

I went to a playdate at a strangers house today! It was pretty awkward, but I was so proud of myself. I am soo so shy IRL, and would never have done something like this normally, but DH was working all day, and T does better out, so I went for it! It's somebody I didn't even know existed until last night, not somebody from my group, either! My doula is friends with her, and invited me to the playdate, and then a few hours later bailed and said she was too sick, but I should go anyways. The mama said absolutely, stop by! And... so I did. Like I said, felt weird, but empowering. Then T and I went grocery shopping, and then to the park for a bit. We've got a huge greenspace park/zoo about a 12 minute drive from us, and they just installed a massive kids play area last year, plus there's a duck pond, and flower and sculpture gardens, stuff like that, so I took Ten for the first time today, but we only got to stay about 20 minutes. We're going to head tomorrow too, and I think try to stay for a few hours and really take advantage of the gorgeous weather, and DH's day off.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

JJ ~ Good for you for going to the playdate anyway. I've done that a few times and I'm shy at first, too. Sometimes you have to in order to meet some IRL people. I just signed onto a NOVA homeschoolers group so I can find some things for us to do during the day with other kids. They have park days twice a week so I'll take the boys. I'm a little bummed because they have one today but I don't think we should go because I don't want to spread Kellen's germs if he still has any. The next one is Tuesday, though, so not too long to wait. And, there's a homeschool science fair tomorrow we can check out. Lots of cool stuff around here. Nothing like J'Ville.

I meant to follow up on the circ thing that I would state my opinion and then drop it. I wouldn't beat anyone up over it, either. No one will listen if you do that.

Carrie ~ Glad you got over the autism thing. I was thinking there's no way Finn has autism or else he wouldn't be such a ham for the camera.









I disagree with the idea in NCSS that babies won't learn to fall asleep without nursing if that's what you always do. IME, they will. It just may not be on our timelines. All of my kids (except Dylan so far, of course) eventually fell asleep without needing to be nursed. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with getting baby to sleep another way as long as it works for everyone and baby isn't left to cry alone. Sean sometimes walks with Dylan to get him to sleep. I'm just saying that the idea that babies won't ever fall asleep on their own without some sort of training or extra work on the parents' part or whatever is just not true.


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

RE: circ.........

Being very religious means I feel for people who think they have to do it for religious reasons. HOWEVER, I do think there should be a law protecting boys since there is a law protecting girls. It really makes no sense. Especially since what we do to a boy is the equivalent of the WORST kind of genital cutting you could do to a girl. Makes noooooo sense.

I was very *meh* about the whole situation myself until my sister was pregnant with a boy and I looked into it for her. OMGOSH - it is true what they say. "Circumcision: the more you know, the more you are against it" 
I meant to share the Cameron Diaz interview - I will have to go find that.

I don't believe you should beat people up if they cut their son. I try to share things just to spread the word - since a TON of people don't even know. I am also super glad Medicaid cut their funding for it in my state. That helps drop the rates a TON. People are alot less likely to cut if they have to shell out a couple hundred bucks for it. Or at least made to actually think about it.

When it comes to putting babies to sleep. IME - every baby and every WEEK is a different story. When people with young babies say they go on a trip and the "whole schedule is off" when they come back just make me








I don't get having a baby on such a rigid schedule. What if they teethe all one night? You just keep them on the same rigid schedule? Just weird. I guess I can't explain exactly what I mean. I just feel like the whole first year (and the second to a smaller degree) is just so unpredictable! At six months the baby will go to bed by doing this, 8 months is this, 12 months is this, etc.

Arianna will sleep 9-11 hours straight MOST nights these days, BUT some nights she will still wake up and it is actually waaaaaaay more difficult than her waking up to nurse off and on all night. She will be awake for 2 hours STRAIGHT flopping and talking and I just have to lay in bed with her and try not to fall asleep. What do people who sleep train do? Just let them cry? Weird.

I don't really have IRL friends.....I have my sister and my SIL that I am pretty close too. My sister learns any crunchy she has from me







My SIL has 6 1/2 year old twins and is divorced. So I don't really have any IRL friends who have kids around the same age.

Sometimes it seems like I would like to find some IRL friends, but I doubt I would have enough energy to keep up any friendships (especially new ones) at this point in my life.

I am suffering from nasal problems. I am not sure if it is allergies or a lingering cold or both at this point. I can't use my neti pot thing because I think it would aggravate my eye (I think that is what gave me pink eye in the first place)

Ugh, having kids is hard enough, add feeling crappy on top of having no energy and I just give up!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Our sleep varies from day to day. I am lucky if I have a routine.

Nursing to sleep. Norah very rarely does. IDK if I did it intentionally or not, but more often she nurses until drowsy and cuddles to sleep. I don't think there is anything wrong with it. Gabe nursed to sleep until he was a year old or so, and it was one of the last nursing sessions we cut.

Gabe tried to nurse last night. repeatedly, but couldn't figure out how to latch. It's the first time he has done that since he weaned, more than a year ago. Bittersweet.

Norah is sleeping in crib for the first time. I think she likes it. I am hoping having a separate, safe quiet space might help her have longer naps. fx.

Circ: I get the religious view. I choose not to myself, and say so, but it's not like it's something that can be undone.I would rather people be at peace with their choice then wracked with mama guilt.

Any opinions on that Time magazine cover?


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> Circ: I get the religious view. I choose not to myself, and say so, but it's not like it's something that can be undone.I would rather people be at peace with their choice then wracked with mama guilt.
> 
> Any opinions on that Time magazine cover?


Totally agree you shouldn't beat yourself, or other parents up over it. I know I have PO'd peeps by the stuff I post. Now no one usually says anything anymore though. I think they have learned not to mess with me!









I am really not sure how I feel about that Time Cover. That is why I didn't share it. I wish I could read the article. If it shows AP in a positive light then I think it would rock. I just don't like the term *AP* or all of the references to Dr. Sears. I have never read a Dr. Sears book and I was doing AP before I KNEW it was AP.

It's like breastfeeding. It's the normal way people raise their kids if you just follow mommy instinct.

Not to say I haven't learned alot since finding the Mothering Boards







but the fundamentals were already there ya know?


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Um. I haven't read it, but from what I gather it's not very positive. Seems to come to the concusion that AP is extremist and impossible, and those that try just set themselves up for failure and mama guilt. (I have read excerpts)

I don't always agree with the Dr. Sears that's on The Doctor's show. I think that's Dr. Sears's son. IDK, I am just being driven crazy by stupid commentars. I need to stay away. Far, Far, AWAY. for my health.

I learn more about AP all the time, but there is so much I don't do. the TV is on a lot. We eat fast food more than we should. Store bought pre packaged stuff more than we should. Norah is right now, this minute, sleeping in her crib for the first time. But it works for us. There are things we could do better, but mostly I'm meh. Too lazy, I guess.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> I disagree with the idea in NCSS that babies won't learn to fall asleep without nursing if that's what you always do. IME, they will. It just may not be on our timelines. All of my kids (except Dylan so far, of course) eventually fell asleep without needing to be nursed. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with getting baby to sleep another way as long as it works for everyone and baby isn't left to cry alone. Sean sometimes walks with Dylan to get him to sleep. I'm just saying that the idea that babies won't ever fall asleep on their own without some sort of training or extra work on the parents' part or whatever is just not true.


Oh no, I don't think that's what the book says, or not what I got from it anyways. Absolutely, if you keep doing the same thing, the baby will eventually learn how to sleep on their own definitely. It doesn't make sense otherwise. There would be adults still nursing to sleep. But yes, that if you need things to change, then you have to -do- something differently to help them learn. If I keep nursing to sleep, and never helping her to learn other options, then it's going to take her a while/long time before she learns those things. And as long as it's working for the family, then there's no need to speed things along. It's just not working for us the way it was.

And Annie-- exactly what you said! There's the average, but then things change! Take last night for example. :lol Mama is exhausted today. But, Tenley is teething, so mama just drinks coffee, swears to herself a lot, and get er done! lol

We've got a routine, but not a schedule. How do you enforce a schedule when they can wake up whenever they want? ie T normally naps around 11am and then again around 2 or 3 pm. She does go to bed at/by 9pm though, that's the only one that doesn't change, but it's also by far the easiest one to get her down for. But I mean some days (this morning) she's up at 5am. Would those moms really just not let her nap until 11am? And on the opposite end- some days she sleeps in until 930-- she's obviously not ready for a nap at 11. How do you force a baby to sleep?

Oh Kat, I'm jealous. I would have no problem nursing to sleep if it were only the bedtime one. But for T, it's every time she needs to fall asleep- every nap, and then during the nap every 20 minutes or so, and then for bed, and every time she wakes up during the night, she needs to nurse back again. That's why we're trying to help her find other ways. I wouldn't mind if it were just nursing to sleep at the beginning of each nap and bedtime, (and then obviously intervels during the night...).

Re: the time article, I haven't looked into it at all, but from a mainstream perspective, it's hard to separate AP and Sears. Wasn't he technically responsible for the term attachment parenting? Not that he created the methods, they've been around for longer than anyone could try to follow, but he was the first to call it AP, I think.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *annie2186*
> 
> When it comes to putting babies to sleep. IME - every baby and every WEEK is a different story.


This is SO TRUE! Sometimes I feel like it's different every single day!

I wish that DD would drink to sleep. Sometimes if she's really tired now she will but otherwise, she will drink until she's done and then I have to hold her hand while she sucks her paci or walk around with her until she goes to sleep. It would be so much easier if she would drink to sleep!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Oh they learn how to go to sleep on their own w/o nursing - but I get what JJ is saying. It's tough when mama is having to nurse every hour during the night (or more). Thing is at this young age they just need HELP to fall back to sleep, be it nursing, rocking, shushing -- they need something. A pacifier. Something. So. Might as well do the easiest thing, which, I think for most of us here is nursing or a bottle.

DD nursed to sleep (bed and naps) until she weaned. Bedtime was the last nursing session she gave up. She was 25 months! So if that gives you an idea...









Finn nurses to sleep or falls asleep in the stroller/car. IF he's tired enough he'll pass out in someones arms. So, nbd. I'm not sure if he'd fall asleep w/a bottle (we haven't tried in months) so we won't be leaving him w/a sitter around bed/naptime until we know for sure how he'd do.

If he wakes shortly after i nursed him, honestly I don't always nurse again first. I'll pat/shush then maybe pick him up and lay him on my chest. Sometimes just the resettling is enough. Sometimes not. I do try other things if my nips and my body just feel too exhausted.

Re: the TIME article. So many of my friends on FB say its negative, or showing EBF in a negative light. Idk, I see such a positive! I see an extended bf'ing mom who doesn't look stereotypically "hippie" on a mainstream mag. It might not be a positive article about AP (more about it draining the mother and whatnot) but I think as mothers, we see what we want to see in that picture. Those against it will say "Oh gosh, that's horrible and wrong," and those pro will say "Wow! Look at that awesomeness!"

Ok so - the friend I met down the block gave me the info for the moms group she goes to that she has been trying to get me involved in. Sigh. It's MOPS. Heavily religious. WWYD? I'm agnostic and going to such a thing would make me uncomfortable. How do I approach this with her? Should I mention my non-religiousness or just say I'm not interested?


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Re: the Time article. I think the picture they chose was sensationalist but their job is to sell magazines. I'd like to read the article. Honestly I think it's like the old saying goes "No such thing as bad press". Anything that brings up extended BFing in mainstream convos is great IMO. We were discussing it at work this evening and I threw out the WHO reco to nurse until 2 yrs old. And one of the ladies said "but isn't that for 3rd world countries where there is unsanitary conditions?" and I told her that there are babies in the US that die every year because they are FF. She had no idea. I said that if I were able to nurse DD, I would allow her to nurse until she weaned. And that I'm not going to stop pumping in 2 months because DD still drinks A LOT of milk. I think it's great for awareness.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Ok so - the friend I met down the block gave me the info for the moms group she goes to that she has been trying to get me involved in. Sigh. It's MOPS. Heavily religious. WWYD? I'm agnostic and going to such a thing would make me uncomfortable. How do I approach this with her? Should I mention my non-religiousness or just say I'm not interested?


I'd probably just be honest and say you are not religious so you don't think that group would be a good fit. I've never heard of MOPS. Off to google!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Are all MOPS groups religious or just that one? I thought it was just Mothers of Preschoolers. I would initially just say not interested. If pressed, I'd explain why.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Hmm, maybe just this particular group then. Idk. The information came with a prayer card and the magnet has something to do with god.









lauri -







wtg on increasing awareness!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> I wish that DD would drink to sleep. Sometimes if she's really tired now she will but otherwise, she will drink until she's done and then I have to hold her hand while she sucks her paci or walk around with her until she goes to sleep. It would be so much easier if she would drink to sleep!


Yeah, it's funny how the grass is always greener! I wish T would go to sleep without feeding, you wish A would go to sleep with feeding! lol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Oh they learn how to go to sleep on their own w/o nursing - but I get what JJ is saying. It's tough when mama is having to nurse every hour during the night (or more). Thing is at this young age they just need HELP to fall back to sleep, be it nursing, rocking, shushing -- they need something. A pacifier. Something. So. Might as well do the easiest thing, which, I think for most of us here is nursing or a bottle.
> 
> ...


Yeah, see that's all I want, really. For T to be able to go back to sleep with other comfort measures than nursing, and in the meantime, that's also helping her to not wake up as often either. I nurse her almost to sleep, and then unlatch her, and finish cuddling her until she goes to sleep fully. Put her in the crib. She wakes up usually about 20-40 minutes later, and then again about 20 minutes after that, and then is asleep for the night. Before- I had to renurse her each of those times. Now I can just pick her up and cuddle her in the glider for a bit while she resettles.

I'm ultimately hoping that learning other ways to fall asleep will eventually get her to the point where we can bring her back into bed with us. Right now, once we bring her into bed, she -cannot- resettle herself and sleep. I'll bring her into the bed, and try to nurse her back to sleep, and she won't sleep longer than 10 minutes before waking up and wanting to nurse again. Nursing sidelying is still uncomfortable to the point of being painful for me, so it means I'm up for the day whenever she comes into our bed, and pretty much so is she, which means she's a grump! Last night she only got about 7.5 hours. :/ If she learns that she can wake up, snuggle a bit, relax and fall asleep, then maybe she can sleep with us again, and we can actually sleeeeeeeep! lol

I've heard the MOPS is religious, but howso? I've never heard really about what they do, so I don't know how integrated the religious part of it is.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Yep, MOPS is a religious organization. I didn't realize it was an international organization. I would not join that since it has rules about religion, faith and being connected to a church.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I am what you might call religious, and I wouldnt go. I dont like those rules.

Norah slept 3 hours in the crib, and Gabe slept throuhj her wake up.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Norah and I were in the news y'all!

http://www.wistv.com/category/195964/video-landing-page

In response to the Time article, our local news put a positive spin on AP


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Darn it! I'll have to watch it later. My volume icon has disappeared from my taskbar and it's on mute so I can't hear anything. Now I have to try to figure out how to get it back.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

How neat! I'll watch as soon as i get a chance! Busy packing weekend!

Happy Mothers Day to all of you wonderful Rockstar mamas!! Enjoy your day!!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Wow Kat! That is an AWESOME story. I think it's the first one I've ever seen outside of mothering or similar that isn't judgmental, and gives the moms a real chance to explain why they follow AP, rather than sensationalizing it.

I nursed on the bus on Friday, and had SUCH a wonderful response from a few older ladies surrounding me. I was surrounded with comments like "It's ok hun, don't feel awkward, you just feed her" and "She knows what she wants, no substitutes!", and "You just nurse her and don't worry about anything else." It was so refreshing. <3


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Very cool, Kat! And, I love that the male news anchor mentioned dads.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Can't wait to watch it! Happy Mother's Day Mamas! I love you all and hope you have a fantastic day! DH hug out w/DD a bit this morning so I could sleep a little longer...best present ever! At work now until tonight...boo to that but it's ok.

Losing my mind over here...thinking that I would like to try to get pg next summer for a Spring 2014 baby...how nutso am I?!? There's no way DH would agree to that right now...money is too tight for that!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Thanks, I thought they did a great job with the story.

Annie, you are nutso. I think I want to be pregnant in 2014. My luck, it will be 2013 (earlier than I want) or 2015, since my births have been in odd number years.

Happy mothers day! I got a lovely dinner, woke up to a smiling baby, now headed to the ILs and going to try to avoid drama. Fun!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I read this a while ago and wanted to paraphrase it in answer to something we were discussing but couldn't remember the whole thing. I think it was something Carrie had posted about feeling like she was not good at GD. It popped up today on a FB group I'm on so I thought I'd share it.

http://sandradodd.com/betterchoice.html


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> I read this a while ago and wanted to paraphrase it in answer to something we were discussing but couldn't remember the whole thing. I think it was something Carrie had posted about feeling like she was not good at GD. It popped up today on a FB group I'm on so I thought I'd share it.
> http://sandradodd.com/betterchoice.html


That's great MW...thanks for sharing! Always be improving...needs to be my motto!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Now that I have both arms free I can post a little more.

Annie ~ I think it would be so fun if you got pg again! I'll have to start being vicariously pg through the rest of you from now on.









I guess I don't really have much more to say. I think I'm too tired to remember anything.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Well, funny thing. someone at church asked DH if we were planning any more kids, and he said one more and that's it (which I knew that part) - then he told them we weren't trying right now, but weren't exactly avoiding either. Um - OK - news to me! LOL - I guess we might have a 2013 baby Hehe.

Good weekend, back to the daily grind. BOOOO.

Hope everyone enjoyed their Mother's Day. And I was informed by DH's aunt that on Mother's day, wives have a "get out of sex free" card . . . I did not intentionally play that, but I was tired. and a large frozen thing fell out of the freezer on to DS's foot and it hurts. Bless him. It's not swollen, and he can move it fine, but it hurts to bear weight on a little and there is a small cut. Think maybe it just bruised the bones a little. (guessing) but as it's not swollen and he is moving it (and can walk on it) I think he's ok.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Oh ouch! Poor baby! I hope in a day or so its fine. That stinks.

LOL Get out of sex free card! We didn't either but ... our issues are much deeper. LOL. We are still sort of...not arguing, but not exactly in a great place. LOL about what your DH said, Kat! Hahaaha!

You know, every time I think I decide, yes, one more baby would be great -- the galactosemia comes up and I just can't make up my mind that it's worth it to risk the chance of having a baby with it. There's still a big chance (ok, not big, but it's there) that we could have an affected child.

How would you deal with entertaining the thought of more kids when you KNOW they could potentially have a genetic disorder?

My mothers day was nice! Went to my ILS, had chinese food, wine, good company. I got a nice card from DH and Nora gave me a stuffed bear that she picked out that says "I Love You, Mom" on a little heart pillow. Very cute. (even if she did wish me happy valentines day once or twice thru-out the day, lol!!)

Finn did one crawl forward yesterday! He still is mostly moving backwards on his tummy (like pushing back on his arms and getting places) but that one crawl forward was like a giant leap for baby kind!! Here we go!!

Packing today! Disneyworld TOMORROW!!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Carrie, it would depend on the disorder. Other than not being able to be breastfed, what are the implications for a child with galactosemia?

Hooray for disney!

Finn is crawling! hooray! Norah mostly moves backwards and sideways. she can bunny hop forward though, which is cute


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> How would you deal with entertaining the thought of more kids when you KNOW they could potentially have a genetic disorder?


That's a big issue for me right now. Since we don't know if DD has Noonan's or not, there's a chance that if we had another baby, it could have NS also. I'd hope that we would be able to get DD's genetic testing done before we are in a position to consider having another one but who knows? There's also the variable of DD having more surgery in the future. Right now, her cardiologists are not expecting her to need more surgery until she's a teen. But things happen. She could possibly need to have her pulmonary valve put in before then. So I could run the risk of having a little one that has to be left w/DH or my mom while I stay in the hospital w/DD for a week or more. I don't know how to reconcile wanting another baby with dealing with those variables.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> Carrie, it would depend on the disorder. Other than not being able to be breastfed, what are the implications for a child with galactosemia?
> 
> ...


Since the only risk we carry is for a variant of the disorder, a special diet might not even be needed. I could bf and do challenge tests to see his/her galt level (enzyme activity). Since we avoid dairy anyway it wouldn't matter in the long run, unless they decide to consume dairy. Some recent studies say there might be some learning disabilities, but there is so little out there about this disorder b/c it's so rare.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> That's a big issue for me right now. Since we don't know if DD has Noonan's or not, there's a chance that if we had another baby, it could have NS also. I'd hope that we would be able to get DD's genetic testing done before we are in a position to consider having another one but who knows? There's also the variable of DD having more surgery in the future. Right now, her cardiologists are not expecting her to need more surgery until she's a teen. But things happen. She could possibly need to have her pulmonary valve put in before then. So I could run the risk of having a little one that has to be left w/DH or my mom while I stay in the hospital w/DD for a week or more. I don't know how to reconcile wanting another baby with dealing with those variables.


Any luck with getting the insurance to cover the testing?

Can the two of you have yourselves tested to see what the risk there is? Are you both carriers?

It's not an easy choice, for sure.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

That is a hard one, Carrie. My immediate thought was that I would go ahead and get pg. The fact is that we all take that risk to some extent when we decide to have babies. I understand that it's a bit different when you _know_ there's a chance for a specific issue but then it isn't really all that different. Just a matter of degree. But then I think about how difficult it can be to take care of a baby/child with health/developmental issues and I don't know. I guess it would depend to some extent on the disorder and the chances of having a baby with it. If there was a very big chance of me having a baby with a disorder that would result in death very soon, I would not have babies. That would just be too painful for me. If the chance was low and the disorder not too difficult to deal with it, I'd probably go ahead and have a baby.

I haven't slept for 2 days. Dylan has been so restless at night. He also hardly napped at all today. He took one 1.5 hour nap this afternoon and then a 30 minute nap tonight but that's it. He usually has two 2 hour naps or one really long nap. Needless to say, he's overly fussy. Kellen, on the other hand, has been sleeping a lot more than usual. I guess it's residual illness from that fever he had a week ago. It's so not his normal to take naps during the day. He's also fallen asleep in a chair or on the couch in the living room early at night while the rest of us are still up doing things. He's also been unusually fussy. Not fun.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

My other thought is, would you have another baby if you knew it would break your marriage?

I'm with you MW - if it would be a fatal thing it would be a nonissue. There is just so much gray area that I have to really think about it. Plus, the anxiety of not knowing thruout the whole pg (unless I do an amnio, which I'm not comfortable with) is another reason against it. Idk. I just don't feel done. But maybe that's b/c I'm not...there are far too many variables at this point.

We aren't sleeping well here either. Teething, and a bit of constipation (Finn's lol). I think no more puffs or cheerios for him. They back him wayyyy up.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Carrie, if another baby would break my marriage, I would choose my marriage. A baby doesn't deserve to be born into a situation like that, of I have some measure of control over it. But if a baby would break my marriage, that also says alot about the strength of it. How is Chris feeling, baby wise?

I agree w MW. None of us have a guarantee of a genetically normal baby.

MW, hope you get some sleep. I am tired despite gettIng sleep.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Another really tough question, Carrie. I don't know how to answer that. I keep typing out responses and then deciding I don't like my answers. I'll have to think about it some more.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> That is a hard one, Carrie. My immediate thought was that I would go ahead and get pg. The fact is that we all take that risk to some extent when we decide to have babies. I understand that it's a bit different when you _know_ there's a chance for a specific issue but then it isn't really all that different. Just a matter of degree. But then I think about how difficult it can be to take care of a baby/child with health/developmental issues and I don't know. I guess it would depend to some extent on the disorder and the chances of having a baby with it. If there was a very big chance of me having a baby with a disorder that would result in death very soon, I would not have babies. That would just be too painful for me. If the chance was low and the disorder not too difficult to deal with it, I'd probably go ahead and have a baby.


^^That.

And for the second one, no, I would not have another baby if I knew it would break my marriage. THAT SAID... if having another baby was very deep down in my soul important to me, and my partner and I could not come to an agreement, then I would consider leaving my partner and getting pregnant on my own. I know that sounds backwards, but I would rather a child know that mommy wanted him/her very much, and decided to find a way to do that on her own, rather than mommy wanted a baby and daddy didn't, so daddy left (or over time realize that mommy and daddy hate each other). I don't ever want a child to have parents that are bitter about him/her. It's not fair.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

JJ: how is Ms. Tenley?

Norah is trying really hard to crawl. still not really. and NO teeth, LOL.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

A mess. lol. I had to call DH at work yesterday, he drove home, I packed a bag, then drove him back to work, and found a relative that was home. Walked in the door, handed the baby over, and went and hid in the bathroom showering and calming down for half hour. She was calm the entire 90 minutes we were at their house, and then I put her back in the car to go get DH, and she banshee shrieked the whole way there. We got there, and I handed over the keys to him, and said I'd be back in 5 minutes. I couldn't even be in the car with her anymore it was so bad.

Today is much better. Yesterday I was certifiably insane. She cried in her crib in little spurts all day long. I kept going in and cuddling and rocking and trying to nurse, and then I'd get at my wits end and have to put her down so I could go calm down. Get calm, rinse and repeat. It was horrible. Downright horrible.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

OMG, that sounds bad! You need some baby free time bad! Wish I were local so I could cheer you up.

She working on teeth maybe?


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeninejessica*
> 
> And for the second one, no, I would not have another baby if I knew it would break my marriage. THAT SAID... if having another baby was very deep down in my soul important to me, and my partner and I could not come to an agreement, then I would consider leaving my partner and getting pregnant on my own. I know that sounds backwards, but I would rather a child know that mommy wanted him/her very much, and decided to find a way to do that on her own, rather than mommy wanted a baby and daddy didn't, so daddy left (or over time realize that mommy and daddy hate each other). I don't ever want a child to have parents that are bitter about him/her. It's not fair.


Very well said.








for yesterday. What do you think is going on?

We went to the park to meet some other homeschoolers here. I don't know what to think. The moms were nice enough. First time meeting them and lots of people talking so I didn't really get to know anyone, of course. Kellen was acting strangely. He wasn't playing with the other kids, which is not like him at all. When I asked he just said he was hungry and didn't feel like playing. I thought maybe it was residual illness. But when we got in the car to leave, Ethan told me the one of the kids was mean to Kellen. He said Kellen was too young and didn't want to play with him. Makes me mad. I wish Kellen had said something to me while we were there.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Oh JJ, I'm so sorry! I've definitely had days like that. Good for you for recognizing you reached your limit and asking/seeking help from someone else! Believe it or not, that's something that a lot of mamas struggle with. I hope she gets over whatever is causing her major malfunction!

MW, that stinks that a kid was being a bully to K. I hate when kids are little snots. Drives me batty. DSS 17 was getting crap from kids at school yesterday. Luckily, he reached out to DH on FB chat and they were able to talk through some stuff.

DD is teething again.







Can someone let me know when it's over and I'll come out of hiding?!? Yikes! She's a ball of emotional fragile mess! She'll be playing fine and then just start crying. The other day, DH came home at lunchtime and I had texted him earlier that she was feeling better because she took a 3 hr nap. Well he put her on the changing table to change her dipe and she starts fussing. So he says to her in a joking voice "I thought Mama said you got rid of your cranky pants!" and she burst in to tears like he had seriously hurt her feelings! It's like she's PMSing or something. So crazy!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> DD is teething again.
> 
> ...


OMG totally our day yesterday too! lol Only it would start with a massive pouty lip and within 30 seconds she's be screaming so hard I was worried abolut her bursting a blood vessel.

And yeah, it's totally teething, combined with and resulting in a lack of sleep, so she was earth shatteringly overtired. The night before I don't think she got more than 8 hours max, and didn't nap all day yesterday for longer than 10 minutes at a time. She's napped today, twice even! and is much friendlier


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Maybe the amber necklace is working better than I gave it credit. Dylan does seem to get restless when he's teething but at least he doesn't get inconsolable like that.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Ava isn't inconsolable she's just fragile. Like if we look at her the wrong way or she doesn't like the tone of our voice, she starts crying. And I can't get very far away from her without tears. She's trying to bite everything in sight though so I know it's teeth. I just hope they pop through soon!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Teething here too. grrr. Norah is just fighting sleep and being restless. She isn't as inconsolable as some. And she is wearing her amber. I am buried in laundry and no idea when exactly I am going to get around to it.

JJ - I do agree, if having another baby was something that I felt bone deep was a NEED, and DH didn't agree . . . . I would have the baby. I would really hope though that DH would respond to that need and get over whatever reservations he had. But if it were more like . . . you know, another baby woud be nice, and DH said absolutely not, and had valid reasons (including just a heartfelt feeling that HE was done) I would honor that. I really think like 3 will be our number. Though, honestly, if we won the lotto or something, I could totally keep on having babies.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> I do agree, if having another baby was something that I felt bone deep was a NEED, and DH didn't agree . . . . I would have the baby. I would really hope though that DH would respond to that need and get over whatever reservations he had.


This is pretty much what happened with me and Sean. He was saying no more babies but I really had that need. It was more than just, "eh, another baby would be ok." I really felt like I had to have one more baby and if Sean refused I would not be able to stay with him because I would resent him forever. Thankfully, he acquiesced to me. Only time will tell how that will play out with our marriage. Sean says he's not resentful that I pressured him and he loves Dylan (I can see that in the way he is with Dylan) and he also says he has no intention of ever leaving me. I don't know if it's the Catholic upbringing or what but he is very much the kind of person who sticks with a commitment. I don't think divorce is really even in his box of options.

I sure hope Dylan is past the teething for a while. I could sure use a break. He has slept better the last 2 nights. I don't know why it's so hit or miss with him. Ethan was very consistently not a good sleeper and Kellen was very consistently a good sleeper. I never know what is going to happen with Dylan.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Babies are chock full of surprises! Even when she is having a cranky, hold me 24/7 day, I am amazed at how easy a baby Norah is. I feel very blessed. Gabe was easy too, until his second year - but he is still far easier than many toddlers I know IRL. I think some of it has to do with how we parent -we are so laid back and no pressure - and partly it's just their temperment. I hope whenever we go for #3, that that child is as easy as the first 2.

And I am completely undecided if I would want the next one to be a boy or girl . . .

I hope Carrie, Norah, and Finn are enjoying Disney. I want to go, but really think we should wait a year or two with Gabe.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Shhhh, don't tell Ava but her sleeping has gotten better the past couple of days! I'm still bone tired though. I don't know if I will ever recover from this sleep debt. Some of the ladies in my MDC DDC on FB are talking about getting pg again. Some of them say that if they get out of the sleep-deprived diaper days, they won't go back. I guess I can see that but right now I think I'd like a good couple of sleep months before jumping back in, you know? Of course that's all contingent on DH agreeing to another one. Who knows? I'm just trying to enjoy DD right now. She's at such a fun age. I love her sense of humor!


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

For me it was always hard to figure out if A was teething or just grumpy or what. My DH jokingly goes "is she teething AGAIN?" every time any of our babies were grumpy because I would say "she's teething!" And it probably is true - kids teethe f-o-r-e-v-e-r

So, I get the bad mommy of year award. I was throwing out A's poopy dipe right after she woke up from her nap and she managed to grab my cup with a straw (you know, the ones you can wash so the straw is really hard plastic?) and before I could get to her she fell right on it







OMG - I totally freaked out. And of course I have a couple toddlers who are non-stop talking/freaking out too! Ugh - long story short I waited a couple hours and then took her to emergicare because she couldn't drink her bottle and was in pain. He said I could take her to the ER and have them put a stitch in it, but if it was his kid he would wait a day and see what happens. So I waited and it's fine. Whew. I still feel so bad.

I hope all you momma's get some teething rest and I hope Carrie is having a blast!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Haha, Annie. I won't tell.

Aw, annie,







. Stuff happens. Dylan fell off the couch the other day because I was just not paying attention.







At least my mom has a rug so it was a semi-soft landing.

Dylan is sick now and so am I. I don't feel too bad (yet). Just some sinus pain and congestion. Dylan has a slight fever, nothing like Kellen's so far. Ethan says his nose hurts and complained of a headache yesterday but that's it. Of course, all of this happens right before my mom is leaving for a week at the beach.

We met some other homeschooler yesterday who were much nicer. We may get together again. I got the impression they aren't very active in the group.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I just went back and read our threads from this time last year and then leading up to DD's birth. Man, I was a whiny mess! Hahaha! I'm glad I have all that stuff written down somewhere though because I didn't keep a pregnancy journal. I guess I should go back at some point and copy it down somewhere so I have it for DD to read later on.

Oh Annie, poor A! Things happen though. I thought DD had scratched her cornea the other day because she was playing with something that's not a baby toy and she poked herself in the eye. Yikes!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Ugh! I have an eye infection. My mom is leaving for the beach this morning. I have to try to figure out how to see a doctor with the boys. I'm hoping my sister can hang out with Ethan and Kellen while I go to an urgent care place.


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

AnnieA - that's cool you DO have that written down somewhere. I have never kept a pregnancy journal, and I didn't keep up very much with this thread or my DDC when I was preggers







Plus, you totally deserve to be a whining mess when pregnant!









MW - that sucks! Do you mean you have pink eye? Are there other kinds of eye infections???







Ugh, my eyes still have some kind of pink eye something in them...........They luckily aren't red anymore, but wearing contacts turns them pretty nasty even a month later. Hope you can get to an emergicare!

So, who in this group doesn't like Weston A. Price? I thought we were saying there was something wrong with them (obviously Carrie wouldn't agree with the meat part). I have been kind of picking up things about them here and there, and besides being pretty "hard core" in the nutrition dept. I can't find anything wrong with aspiring to eat the best of organic, raw, and grass fed free pasture things. Obviously I am waaaaaaaaay NOT doing it right now, but I am going to start trying to phase it in. Just want to make sure there is nothing that I am missing.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

There are several kinds of eye infections, viral and bacterial. I'm assuming it's just the common conjuctivitis (pink eye). I did get to an urgent care place. I had Dylan looked at, too, since we were there and he's sick. The doc gave me two scripts for each of us for eye drops/ointment and amoxicillin. I don't know if I'll use the amoxicillin. I think I'll wait a little while longer on that. So, I got my scripts filled, got home and was taking them all out to go through them. The eye drops for me say right on the box to not use if breastfeeding. It doesn't say check with doctor or pharmacist. It says do not use. The nurse asked me if I was breastfeeding and Dylan was wearing a breastfeeding shirt that the doctor read out loud and yet he still prescribed this for me. I called and got a different one called in but what a pain that I have to go back out and I already paid for the first one.









I haven't looked into Weston A. Price in a long time. I don't really know much about the diet. I'm not a fan of the organization because they are anti-breastfeeding. They advise people that the SAD is so poor that women should not breastfeed. They advocate mothers making their own infant baby food.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Ugh, MW that stinks! Glad you've got something to treat it even though it required a second trip. You know what I discovered when I was rereading the old threads? We're missing some people! MovingMama and BareFootScientist. Anybody keep up with them on FB?


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I am sure this time last year I was not in the best emotional state either. I was dealing with dickwads of an OB practice (mostly the US tech, but still) and preparing to move in with the ILs. UGH. not fun times.

Yes, where did they go?

MW: hope your eyes and Dylan feel better.

Preparing for another busy Saturday here. Hope Carrie is enjoying Disney.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I've got MovingMomma on FB and I think BFS, too. Or maybe I'm friends with BFS on Ravelry. I can't remember now since it's a different name. I can't remember who's who anymore.







Oh, I think echospiritwarrior is who I'm friends with on Ravelry.

Dylan is just crying, crying, crying. I wish I could make him feel better.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

JJ ~ I finally remembered to change your EDD. I thought I had done that a while ago. Anyway, it's done now.









Now that I'm a nasty, sick mess dh is interested in dtd.







Course, he hasn't seen me yet.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

MW, typical! Hahahaha!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Yeah, and my mom is away this weekend so we might actually get some alone time after the boys are asleep. I am so sick, though. There's no way anything is going to happen.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

feeling any better?

I am sure Carrie is having a great time but I miss her 

how is everyone? we are ok, headed to the zoo. Norah loves to eat and remains toothless. We slept well last nght.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I am not really feeling any better. I still have a sore throat, headache, congested sinuses, achy body and the eye infection. My glands on my throat are swollen and tender. Dylan has a nasty diaper rash. I didn't give him the oral antibiotics. Do you think he could have gotten it from the eye ointment? He has had diarrhea but I don't know if that's just from being sick with this viral thing or if it's from the antibiotic eye ointment. Thank goodness I thought to bring my miracle diaper rash stick.


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> I am not really feeling any better. I still have a sore throat, headache, congested sinuses, achy body and the eye infection. My glands on my throat are swollen and tender. Dylan has a nasty diaper rash. I didn't give him the oral antibiotics. Do you think he could have gotten it from the eye ointment? He has had diarrhea but I don't know if that's just from being sick with this viral thing or if it's from the antibiotic eye ointment. Thank goodness I thought to bring my miracle diaper rash stick.


Sorry you aren't feeling any better









From what I read and what the doc said, antibiotic eye drops don't really get into your blood stream. My sister's three month old also has some weird growth on his eye that might be a clogged duct or something but they gave her antibiotic eye drops and it didn't give him diarrhea or anything.

akind1 - how old is Norah now? Arianna didn't get teeth until about 8ish months, but I am positive she was teething since 3 months! LOL


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Yeah, annie, that's what I thought. Kellen had vomiting and diarrhea when he was sick so it could just be that. I'm paranoid about Dylan getting a yeast infection from abx. But the eye meds must get into your blood some because the first script I got said not to use if breastfeeding. The pharmacist confirmed that that one does show up in breastmilk and it's not clear if it's safe for babies. The others they have given me are all ones they give to babies, too, so it's not such a problem if it does get into my breastmilk.

Sean was so not comforting or caring while he was here. It seemed like he either thought I wasn't really sick or didn't care. He just went about his business and kept leaving me with Dylan even though I've been with all the kids by myself since I got sick. And my feelings got really hurt on Mother's Day. It was also my sister's birthday so my mom had planned to make a cake for her. I wanted to make a Mother's Day cake as well because my sister is very selfish about her stuff. She wouldn't even say whether or not she'd join us for a birthday celebration for her and she didn't. She came upstairs after we were all in bed, ate her cake and took her presents back to her room. She has not said anything at all about her presents.

Anyway, Sean got nasty with me for wanting to make another cake. He said I was being selfish and trying to diminish my sister's birthday. Me wanting to make another cake had nothing to do with that. I wanted a cake for me and my mom that we could all eat whenever we wanted. It was like he was saying that my sister's birthday was more important to him than Mother's Day. I couldn't believe it. What's so wrong with making two cakes for two different occasions, especially if one cake isn't going to be available for the rest of us to eat?

He's not doing much to make me feel like going back to NC.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

hugs. its sounds like he takes the family too much for granted - especially since actual divorce or anything like that isn't an option in his head. If you are happy where you are, and everyone is taken care of, then I don't see any reason to go back to NC honestly. That sounds awful, maybe, but you have to do what's best for everybody, including yourself.

I do hope you get feeling better.

See, I would have just bought an ice cream cake and hoarded it all to myself. hehe.


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Yeah, annie, that's what I thought. Kellen had vomiting and diarrhea when he was sick so it could just be that. I'm paranoid about Dylan getting a yeast infection from abx. But the eye meds must get into your blood some because the first script I got said not to use if breastfeeding. The pharmacist confirmed that that one does show up in breastmilk and it's not clear if it's safe for babies. The others they have given me are all ones they give to babies, too, so it's not such a problem if it does get into my breastmilk.
> Sean was so not comforting or caring while he was here. It seemed like he either thought I wasn't really sick or didn't care. He just went about his business and kept leaving me with Dylan even though I've been with all the kids by myself since I got sick. And my feelings got really hurt on Mother's Day. It was also my sister's birthday so my mom had planned to make a cake for her. I wanted to make a Mother's Day cake as well because my sister is very selfish about her stuff. She wouldn't even say whether or not she'd join us for a birthday celebration for her and she didn't. She came upstairs after we were all in bed, ate her cake and took her presents back to her room. She has not said anything at all about her presents.
> ...


Interesting about it showing up in BM.........it's crazy that a little drop in your EYE can end up in your milk YK?









Ugh and







about stupid boys when your sick. My DH is sooooo the same way. I have to be dying AND yell at him before he takes the kiddo's for a second. When I had strep about 2 years ago I was sooooo sick and M was old enough that she didn't need me as much so I just hid out. I didn't care.

When A was about 4 weeks old and I got the stomach bug..........OMG I thought I was going to DIE. I was the sickest I have ever been in my life - I seriously probably would have called 911, but the thought of being moved was actually worse than dying at that point. Where was DH? Who the F*&^ knows. I was and still am PO'd about what happens when I am sick. I would like to think that DH just doesn't realize how sick I am, but really, it sucks either way.

What happened on mothers day is completely obnoxious. Wow.


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> See, I would have just bought an ice cream cake and hoarded it all to myself. hehe.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Well, there are lots of reasons to go back. Sadly, being with my dh isn't one of them right now.

He used to be very sweet and caring when I would get sick. That's one reason I fell in love with him. He was a caretaker. One time when we were dating and I was very, very sick he stayed at my house cleaning all night while I slept. But, not anymore. There's something going on with him but he won't fess up to it.

Oh, and he also got nasty over getting a new car. The Jeep he drives is a piece of junk. I'm scared to drive it because I never know when something might fall apart. I told you all how it broke down. It needed a new clutch, which cost about $900 plus $230 for a rental car for a week. So, dh has been looking at used vehicles for sale, which is fine with me. I've been saying for at least 2 years now that he needs to get something else. He showed me pickup truck. I was like, "Huh? Will that hold all of us? 3 child car seats/boosters?" Next thing I know he snapped at me about how there was no way he was getting a minivan and why does he need to get something to accommodate all of us anyway? I have a minivan. The vehicle is for him. WTF? I didn't say anything about a minivan. He has a Harley that's all for himself for fun. I've never even ridden on it (because I don't trust him to drive it safely). If we're going to get a 3rd vehicle, I think it makes perfect sense to get something that we both can drive and that can fit the whole family. The only other thing I care about is that it isn't a gas guzzler. I told him that it seems to me he's more concerned with his macho image than with his family.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Ugh, MW, sorry you are so sick! That stinks! I had some stomach thing when DD was around 10 weeks and I hated feeling like I needed to be in the bathroom waiting to vomit and hoping DD didn't wake and need me. Thankfully, DH stepped up and took care of her. And that's just poopy about Mother's Day. Even if he thought you were being selfish, why say it? He should have just kept it to himself. It was Mother's Day for pete's sake!

akind1, hope you guys had fun at the zoo! I'm still not brave enough to do something like that w/DD. The thought of schlepping the pump, huge diaper bag plus her...ugh. And she won't ride in the stroller although it is helpful to carry the diaper bag in!

AFM, I bought the book Beyond the Sling and read it this weekend. I wanted to love it. All of the interviews that I heard with her, she kept saying it's not a parenting book, it's just a book about her experiences. So I was expecting it to be more like a memoir. Ummm, no. It's a parenting book. If I had gone to the bookstore to buy it, I probably wouldn't have. But I bought it on my Nook so I couldn't really flip through it beforehand. There was some thought provoking stuff, especially in the gentle discipline section. She and her husband use "Not for..." instead of saying "No". So for instance if DD is going after something that she shouldn't have, I would say "Not for Ava" instead of saying "No". I like that and I'm already implementing it. But other things just came off with this almost "holier than thou" feeling even though she kept saying through the whole book that it's not a parenting book. She also referenced that she and her husband decided to not teach their kids anything before they are five to not stress them out. So no books with ABCs, no counting, no learning colors. I am on board with not setting little ones down with workbooks, etc, but I don't think there's anything wrong with singing the Alphabet song. To each his own I guess. I just don't see that as an AP thing though so it felt odd to be under that umbrella. I'd be interested to hear you guys' opinions on the book but I wouldn't suggest buying it. Maybe find it at the library?


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Is that the book by Blossom? I probably couldn't get it in my library.

I'm afraid that we won't be well enough to see you on Friday. It took Kellen over a week to be 100%. I don't want to expose Ava (or you) to this virus. Obviously, if we are still really sick, coughing, that sort of thing we won't come but what if we feel ok but it hasn't been very long? What do you think?


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Probably don't want to chance it. Plus, we still don't have the other car fixed, although it's supposed to be fixed tomorrow, so I probably wouldn't be able to come anyways. Oh well...we'll see each other in September at least!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I agree about alternatives to NO. However, and maybe it's just a boy thing? - there are times I need NO in my toolbox, because Gabe is about to do something dangerous and he needs a really short, authoritative sort of direction. Once he is pulled back to safety I can elaborate. And we say NO alot less than most people. I mostly don't like "no" because it doesn't really tell a kid anything. I like to say what he can or can't do. Like if he's reaching for something hot, I say, "don't touch, HOT" or going to open a cabinet he shouldn't be in - "please close the door" I think it teaches him far more than just saying "no" would.

As for the teaching thing . . . ack. for us that would only be possible if we completely shut off the TV, and I didn't let Gabe ever play with my phone. That stuff is around and within everything. And in those contexts, I don't find ABCs, colors, shapes, numbers, etc to be at all stressful. Gabe doesn't even realize he is learning anything. Kids learn through play. especially ones under 5.

MW: He would have to get a big truck to fit 3 carseats. Maybe play into that - it would look super macho, and work as a family car! LOL there is this blog that shows 3 in the back of a Ford F150 - http://feistyfrugalandfabulous.com/2011/07/ford-f-150-ecoboost/ as an example. FWIW - if I have to drive a big vehicle, I want it to be up high so I can see better.

I hope you can figure out what's going on with him. I know people change over the years you are with him, but he seems to be being a bit bizarre.

The zoo was great - I am thankful not to need to tote a pump. I take the kids lots of places myself, because I go stir crazy in the house. But sometimes it's not fun.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Oh, well, Annie.







I was going to suggest a later date but I don't know if we'll still be here. Ethan really wants to go home. He doesn't have any kids to play with here. I told him that we'd go home after the holiday weekend if he still feels that way. I don't really want to go home. I like having my mother around to help me. She's been tremendous. But I don't want Ethan being miserable. Things didn't work out the way I planned since we keep getting sick. Otherwise, we would have been out doing more, playing with other homeschoolers and such.

Kat ~ Thanks for that link. I'm sending it to Sean. Although, I don't know if I can drive something that big. I guess I could in an emergency but driving huge trucks and SUVs intimidates me. I'd also probably need a stepstool to get into it.









I try not to say No too much but I think it does need to be said sometimes. I think that's the point in that sort of thing. It's not that you can never say no, just don't say it automatically all the time. Sean does that. Even when he's actually saying yes to something he'll start with no. It's really strange. Like, I'll ask if he wants something and he'll say, "Well, no, yeah, let's get that."









I understand not teaching kids things since I don't do that at all. I don't think it would be that hard to avoid counting and alphabet books. There are books for babies and kids that are stories or pictures. I don't think I ever sing the alphabet song and I don't make any special effort to teach my kids to count. Lots of families are TV free and don't let their very young children use computers and phones much. I find it very annoying that so many products, whether books or toys or TV shows, are designed for teaching rather than just playing. It's like we can't just let kids have fun anymore. We are expected to be teaching them all the time. The really silly thing about that is that they are always learning, even moreso imo when we don't try to teach them.

Dylan has been doing a lot of free standing. I wish I could get a photo but it's not long enough for me to get my phone and snap a shot. He took another step without holding on yesterday.

I think my eyes might be getting better. They are still really gunky but they don't seem to hurt/burn/itch as much. I put breastmilk in my eyes several times yesterday. I think that may have done the trick. I'm going to continue today. I haven't gone to pick up the other script yet. I was feeling so awful yesterday. So, I might give it another day and see if my eyes improve even more with the breastmilk. Then I won't bother.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Timely. Effects of divorce on children.

http://www.life123.com/relationships/divorce/divorce-effects-children/effects-of-divorce.shtml?o=3431


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

My problem with research like that though, is that it's a correlation- not causation. Children of divorced parents have increased incidences of those things mentioned. But it's not necessarily the divorce that did it- it's very likely that part or even most of those symptoms came from living in the home before the divorce happened. But you could never study that accurately, because what parent is going to say "Yeah, our home life sucks, and we're about to divorce I think, but haven't yet-- can you come and use us as research subjects before we actually divorce." No. People don't want to admit that their marriages suck (in public I'm saying) before they actually go ahead and divorce. And admitting that the current home life is damaging is even more taboo.

I think the teaching kids has a line. I think there's nothing wrong with going over the basics as they come up in life-- and yes some of those will be fun books or tv shows, or counting the dogs outside, etc. I think the problem comes when parents/teachers/others are trying to force the learning with young children and even toddlers, and not focusing on the fun and brain development part of it. Will I think it's fantastic if Ten is reading at 4? Yes. Will I be worried if she doesn't start until 6 or 7? No. There's so much she's learning otherwise, and I know she'll learn it eventually. So... yeah, I get not purposely teaching your young children- but I think going so far as to remove ABC and counting books, and never sing educational songs with them is a bit... silly. For me anyways, I think it just seems to defeat the purpose, which isn't that supposed to be not to pressure children and to let them develop naturally? Developing naturally includes all the things normally around you, not purposely avoiding them.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Love the "not purposely avoiding them" bit. my parents remarked the other day that they were in a parking lot with Gabe the other day, and the spaces were numbered, and he knew which numbers were which and which order they should be. I didn't teach him that. Alot of the shows we watch (Nick Jr all the time) include numbers, counting, etc in the story. He watches stuff on youtube, etc and must've picked it up from there. I think it's fine to introduce things naturally with kids "do you want the green crayon or the red one?" I find that sort of thing to be a teachable moment. Yes, you can go screen free, etc. but as a mom working from home, I just don't know how to do that, and keep both kids happy and entertained and get my work done.

Glad your eye is feeling better!

I wish I didn't have to work. But still have money!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Well, technically, no research like that can prove causation. Maybe you could get the info your wondering about by interviewing adults who's parents divorced and those who stayed in an unhappy marriage. I would think, though, that if you take the fact that some intact families aren't happy and some divorced families are much happier, if divorce weren't a factor, there wouldn't be a significant difference between children from divorced and intact families.

The type of thing Kat described is natural. So is counting pennies to see if you have enough to buy something and reading words, books, stories just to read. Books and toys and games made specifically for educational purposes are not natural. Books like _A is for apple_ and _Counting 1, 2, 3_ are not natural. "Little Einsteins" isn't natural. Natural would be making a fun TV show for kids and then adding Mozart because the music fit, not wanting to make a show the purpose of which is to (try to) instill an appreciation for classical music and make kids smarter as a result and then trying to design something fun around that.

I'm not saying that all of that stuff should be avoided. I just think it's ridiculous that some people think that everything a child has must be "educational".


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I agree that there is a time and place for the word "NO". However I've heard both myself, the big kids and DH using it way to much with DD. Like for everything when saying "Not for DD" would work just as well.

I don't see anything wrong with ABC or counting books. I wouldn't make a 3 yr do a worksheet or not be able to play until they could recite their ABCs. But I sing a song to DD every morning while she's sitting on the potty. We look at this book that has a picture of an animal for each letter and I sing a song about the different sounds that the letters make. It occupies her while she's waiting to poop.







But I do agree that there is way too much emphasis on EVERYTHING being a learning opportunity. Kids mostly just need to play. They pick up plenty of stuff from playing, interacting with older siblings and grownups and just going about their lives.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> But I do agree that there is way too much emphasis on EVERYTHING being a learning opportunity. Kids mostly just need to play. They pick up plenty of stuff from playing, interacting with older siblings and grownups and just going about their lives.


But everything is a _learning_ opportunity. Kids learn through play. What everything shouldn't be is a _teaching_ opportunity. We need to chill out, sit back and watch our kids play and learn what they need to know at the moment more rather than trying to teach them whatever we think they need to know.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> But everything is a _learning_ opportunity. Kids learn through play. What everything shouldn't be is a _teaching_ opportunity. We need to chill out, sit back and watch our kids play and learn what they need to know at the moment more rather than trying to teach them whatever we think they need to know.


ITA with this. everything is learning opportunity, but there are what I'd call teachable moments. Sometimes it's not educational (as in 1,2,3) but it's about life in general, like how to treat other people, or how to handle a certain situation.

And I also agree, there isn't anything wrong really with letter and counting books, or educational shows (Nick Jr is all about all of their shows being that way - but it's all fun and incorporated into the show in most cases) but I think it's more about having them available to the kids so they can learn as they show interest in those things.

gotta have balance!

Norah has been sleeping alot better - hooray - not that she ever was a bad sleeper, but those long stretches are soooo nice. And she's gained nearly a lb in 2 weeks - growth spurt! - and about 1/2 an inch in length, possibly more.

Gabe is doing fairly well. What I'm strugglilng with is my dad. Gabe loves him and vice versa, but dad is too focused on the "good" word. Like, I will do this, but you must be good. I correct, or add in, Gabe, please stay calm. (because they were going fishing on the dock, with no handrails, and neither of us wants Gabe to get into one of those tantrusm where he is throwing himself down and not looking where he is going. Trying to get dad to be more specific in what he's asking of Gabe. Not only do I not really like the good vs bad aspect, I don't think saying "be good" sets a very clear expectation, and Gabe needs that.

FWIW - Gabe is awesome until fishing time is over. Poor guy. then he gets sad. I need to think of a good way to transition that. Alot of things have a definite end marker, like parking the riding mower, and he understand that means we are all done. Fishing is done whenever Grandpa says so. Treats fix him once he's inside, but don't help him transition calmly. Ideas?


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Does/can Grandpa give Gabe some warning about when he's going to be done? Or maybe include Gabe in the decision. Say something like, "I'm about done with this. Let's finish up in 5 minutes," but give Gabe a little extra time if he wants it.

I'm ambivalent about the idea of teaching moments. I'm not strictly against that except for the fact that I don't think kids need to be actively taught anything. If we interact with our kids in a normal, natural way and include them in our daily lives, we don't need to worry about noticing any teaching moments. Things will be shared and observed and experienced and learned naturally. KWIM? For example, crossing the street. A parent who sees that as a teaching moment may go into an explanation and demo of how to cross a street safely and why. If a parent is just going with the moment, she might just stop look both ways, ask her child if he sees any cars coming or if it's safe to cross, and then walk carefully when it is safe.

I had a talk with dh yesterday on the phone. I sent him the link to that blog post about the Ford F-150, which I think softened him up, and a link to the top 10 reasons for divorce.







I told him that I was really upset because it seemed to me that he didn't care that I was sick. He said that wasn't true. He did care and that was why he was trying to take care of the boys. The problem was he was taking care of the big boys when I needed him to take care of the littlest one. If he had asked what I needed, he would have known that.

So we got into a discussion about his lack of communication. I told him that it seems like he doesn't think about or doesn't care and doesn't want to do anything to improve our relationship. Again, he said that wasn't true. He always thinking about and does want to do something. That's why he asked me to bring the latest marriage improvement book I got. There are exercises in the book he wants to do with me but he can never find the time. Problem is that he didn't say anything about that to me before so I didn't know that. I thought he just wanted to keep reading it. If I had known that, I could have asked my mom to watch the boys for a couple of hours one Sunday so dh and I could go somewhere. To that he said that my mom is always busy. Um, yeah, that's why you need to tell people what you want to do ahead of time, so they can make plans. He's got a serious problem with that. He has a plan in his head and waits for what he thinks is the perfect time to implement it but he never shares the idea of the plan with anyone and he never finds the time to do it.









He said he knows he has a problem with that but doesn't know how to fix it. I don't see what's so difficult about that. If you know you need to communicate more, just do it. Talk to me! Tell me what you are thinking, what you want and why.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

re: teachable moments - what you said about looking and asking if he sees cars, etc that is what I do. I really don't think long drawn out explanations are necessary (especially with toddlers). I am dumbfounded when I see other parents and grandparents doing all that. Now, I do think you should explain why you do things, but it can be very simple and age appropriate. (like, do you see any cars coming? no? good, we want to be safe when we cross the street)

I am glad you and Sean were able to talk. DH and I are like that alot - we do so much thinking in our heads sometimes, we forget to enlighten each other to our thoughts. Thankfully it's not been on big things yet, more like the order in which we are going to do things, like Target, Groceries, park. He thinks one order of events, and how to get there, and I have something completely different in mind. But since I didn't tell him what I was thinking, he is confused by my confusion when he pulls up to Target and I thought we were getting groceries.

I need to get better about that.

And I do hope you can find a good middle ground re: new vehicle. DH wants a huge SUV as our next car . . . I am mostly in agreement, except I am a little nervous about parking the thing. And I'll miss my fuel effiecient little xB.

Yes, I think some sort of countdown might be helpful. Thankfully dad has really been open to taking parenting directions - once he understands why we do things, and how it can prevent drama, he is great. It's just about re-programming (neither of his father figures was ideal I think, so he has always kind of gone with his gut)


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I think I could handle a SUV over a pickup. I don't see the point in a pickup if you don't need to haul big stuff, which we don't. An SUV with more interior space makes more sense to me. I'd probably have to practice driving it. The Jeep we have is so old that anything we buy will be more fuel efficient so that's a good thing.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

More interior space is nice. We do haul things on occasion, but can borrow a truck if we need it. My dad has an F150 and that sucker can guzzle some gas. It's a newer model (last 10 years or so). Which is why he usually rides his goldwing trike everywhere.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

When I say newer model I mean not more than 5 years old. The Jeep is a 1993 or 94 so it's horrendous. Newer F-150s (2007+) get about the same gas mileage as my minivan. With 6 people in our family we don't have the option of anything smaller.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I agree, I should have said "teachable" opportunity instead of "learning" opportunity. Everything is a learning opportunity. I do think there is value in giving a short explanation, at least for me. I tend to breeze through stuff and just do it instead of explaining why I'm doing something. I remember one time we were in the grocery store and I asked DSD 14 who was maybe 9 or 10 at the time to go back to the produce section to get an onion. She walked away and came back a few minutes later empty handed. I asked her why she didn't get an onion and she said she didn't know what it looked like. Now was she giving me a hard time? Maybe but she's not my kid that does that. I think she genuinely didn't know what an onion looked like before it's been peeled and chopped. My fault for not explaining things better. So if I'm about to cross the street with my kids, I wouldn't say "please hold my hand and look both ways", I would probably say "please hold my hand and look both ways. we need to make sure there are no cars coming before we start to walk in the street."

MW, what about a Toyota Highlander? They seat 7 if you absolutely need to but you could put all three little boys in the middle section and it's not too big. And it's kind of an SUV.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

We looked at the Toyota Highlander back in 2006 and decided against it. I can't remember why now. We got a Subaru Tribeca instead. It's the same concept, a mid-sized SUV with a foldable 3rd row of seats. Once 2 child car seats were in the 2nd row the 3rd was essentially inaccessible. Also, the 3rd row was barely big enough to a big kid and when the seats were up there was no cargo space. That 3rd row is useless, imo.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I know people who put the babies in the way back, and since they are rear facing, load them in through the hatch. Seems awkward to me, but they don't seem to mind. That way the bigger kids can sit in the more accessablel 2nd row. you would have to make sure you can install carseats in the 3rd row. it's fine in some cars, but not in others.

I am not getting enough sleep and need to figure out how to get more. Aren't enough hours in the day!

Gearing up for a long weekend - I am so glad - I need it!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Putting a child car seat in the 3rd row would be a serious pain. Why would you do that if you don't have to? Plus, like I said before, with the 3rd row up there is virtually no cargo/trunk space. We really do need either a minivan or a full-size SUV. I don't even think a pickup with a big back seat would work because there wouldn't be room for Ryan. Maybe I don't need to worry about Ryan since he has his own car? I don't like the idea of not having room for him if we need it, though.

Sean said he's found a truck he wants. I'm not sure why he's insisting that he needs to get a new truck now. Everything costs more up here. If he could just wait a few weeks, we could find something back home that is less. He doesn't think about stuff like that (even though he complains about wasting money







). He says the Jeep is making funny noises that are getting worse and that it's probably the transmission so he needs to get something now. I'm not sure I buy that but I don't know so whatever. I'm also kind of pissed that we just spent $1200 to replace the clutch and for a rental car a couple of weeks ago. I suggested then that he just get a new vehicle. Complete waste of money!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

That does seem like a waste of money. as far as price of car . . . I don't know if it would be any cheaper. Cars often are what they are - question is, I guess he might also be thinking this - is do both vehicles need to be able to be driven by both of you and fit everybody? I know for us, we need just one that we are comfortable driving, and yeah, both kids need to ride in it safely, even though they rarely do. I can't tell you how many people I know load in kids through the rear hatch. It looks like a major PITA to me.

I need vacation! but my real vacation isn't until July 

Here is a pic of Storch Inka I got from Carrie - one is not as bright as the other, but posting both -


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I've already told him that both vehicles need to be able to be driven by both of us and fit all of us. If there is an emergency and one car is out of commission, I want everyone to be able to use the other. And, with Sean gone a lot, I'd like to have the other car available for my use if needed. There have been times when he was deployed and I needed to get work done on my vehicle but couldn't because we would have been without any transportation.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

That makes sense. Each family is a bit different; we could easily get by with one car, but 2 is much more convienent.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Oh, yeah, not us. I'm not going to get up at 5 am every morning and load everyone in the car to take dh to work and I'm not going to be stuck at home with no way to get around, either. There isn't much to do walking around J'ville. DH does need something that has room for him to carry his gear in or else he could just use his Harley. But, if you were going to have a 2nd car, why wouldn't you get one that everyone could use as long as you could afford it? It doesn't make sense to me not to.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

It looks GREAT, Katrina!! Glad it's working for you! <3

Back from vacation!







It's sad to not be at Disney, but it feels really good to be home! I'll try to catch up if I can -- over 50 posts so I'm not sure it's possible! But I'm around! I'm hoping to go thru Disney pics and get them up in the next couple days. We had SUCH a good time. Busy, but good! There was absolutely no down time on the trip. I feel like we need a vacation from our vacation!!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

It depends; If your family car is not so great on gas, I can see having the "work" car being one that is fuel efficient, fits family if it has to, but isn't really meant for that purpose. (like if dad has to take a kid to karate or something). Now, in your case, since you have a little bit of a larger family, that's a tought situation, since you want to fit 3 adults and 3 kids (in carseats, no less). Hard to find something that seats 6 or 7 with room to spare for gear and all that (that's not a minivan or an SUV . . . )

In our case, I LOVE having a small, easy to park, fuel efficient car that both of us are comfortable driving. Downtown has a lot of small, sometimes only parrallel parking, and it's wonderful to have. However, it has not a lot of storage. which sucks. and we couldn't fit a 3rd kid in it. (I have a Scion Xb BTW, if it matters). DH has a toyota avalon, which he likes, its roomy width wise, but lower to the ground. We could fit 3 across in his backseat easily. It's not bad on gas, but as a v6, it does not do as well as my 4 cylinder. I won't drive it, as I only do big if I can be high up.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

And welcome back Carrie! I always feel I need a vacation from my vacation - hope you are able to catch up soon. IDK if I can sum up everything, but we talked about:

learning opportunities vs teachable moments vs teaching opportunities and the merits and detractions of all.

MW's DH's need for a new car (truck, van, SUV) and what to get

Use of the word "No"

And that's all that comes to mind as recent discussion.

I am beyond glad that it's Friday! MIL is taking DS this afternoon, we will get him back Sunday when we go visit over there for memorial day/someone's birthday festivities. Monday we are going to a friends for a pool party, and I am psyched about that! and well, that's all I can think of for now.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Welcome back, Carrie!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

I keep missing updates *grumble*

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> I think I could handle a SUV over a pickup. I don't see the point in a pickup if you don't need to haul big stuff, which we don't. An SUV with more interior space makes more sense to me. I'd probably have to practice driving it. The Jeep we have is so old that anything we buy will be more fuel efficient so that's a good thing.


I want an SUV when we buy again, but I can't get over the gas thing. We seriously considered getting a hybrid/electric next go around, except now that I've seen how much room ONE carseat takes up, I don't know how I could do it, with the understanding that hopefully one day there will be TWO carseats back there. The only exception would be the Ford Edge? I think is a hybrid SUV. Probably gets no better gas mileage than our car though, even with the hybrid...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Putting a child car seat in the 3rd row would be a serious pain. Why would you do that if you don't have to? Plus, like I said before, with the 3rd row up there is virtually no cargo/trunk space. We really do need either a minivan or a full-size SUV. I don't even think a pickup with a big back seat would work because there wouldn't be room for Ryan. Maybe I don't need to worry about Ryan since he has his own car? I don't like the idea of not having room for him if we need it, though.
> Sean said he's found a truck he wants. I'm not sure why he's insisting that he needs to get a new truck now. Everything costs more up here. If he could just wait a few weeks, we could find something back home that is less. He doesn't think about stuff like that (even though he complains about wasting money
> ...


I get why he would want to find a new one though before the tranny goes. If he has to replace the tranny to keep driving, then you're looking at thousands of dollars that otherwise could go towards the new vehicle. But frustrating that he won't take your opinions on the new vehicle into account.

If he knows what truck he wants, would they let you take the car seats and do a test fit? Could help convince one or you into/out of it. Likely, he'll see how cramped it is with the seats and maybe understand your point a bit more about something more family friendly.

I think I would only do a child seat in the back if it were a forward facing, so I could do it up from the second row. Even better if it were a booster that the child could do up themselves. Then it wouldn't be much different.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> That makes sense. Each family is a bit different; we could easily get by with one car, but 2 is much more convienent.


Very true! I kept turning down playdates with our AP group because I didn't have the car, and then I realized almost everyone else was busing... so I've started taking the bus again more (we've been a 1 car family since before we got married, and I never minded, but somehow with a baby it seemed like too much work). It's actually easier to bus, because then I don't have to worry about her fussing. I pack a bag, pop her in a carrier, and we're good to go. If we need to go somewhere far, I drive DH to work so we can have the car, but it's not usually a big deal. We know eventually we'll have to get a second car, but I haven't figured out yet what would be the defining factor to push us to do that again. It's nice right now having no car payments or anything. And knowing that insurance and gas alone would be around $175 a month, or a bus pass is around $75... it makes me feel like the bus isn't that bad! That's $100 a month to spend on coffees, or adorbs stuff for Tenley guilt free! lol

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> Use of the word "No"


Doh! Ok, so I've started using that suggestion of "not for Tenley", and I really like it. But, but but... instincts are so strong, so even though I'm saying "not for Tenley", I always start it with no! lol It defeats the purpose when I'm going "No!!! Not for Tenley!" lol I know it'll come with time, but I laugh at myself every time.

Ok, so help? I'm working on my doula website, and it needs a lot of tweaking and help. Can you guys critique for me? DH is trying, but since he's looking for different things, it's just not working. I need someone who is going to look at it from the perspective of actually getting a doula. http://bellylove.webs.com/ Oh, and ps, any better names than Belly Love? LOL I hate it, came up with it 5 years ago, but now I can't think of anything I do actually like.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

The gas thing with a SUV or truck really gets me, too. But, like I said before, my minivan isn't much better, which shocked me. I just assumed a minivan would have decent gas mileage. I have a 2006 Toyota Sienna and it averages about 19 mpg, not horrible but certainly not great. I guess the larger vehicles are all going to be like that.









I think there are some larger SUV and truck hybrids now but they are so expensive! And I really don't want a huge SUV. Sean is set on a pickup, anyway. It's his choice. I'm not going to fight with him on it. I figure if I let him get what he wants with this I will have leverage to get something I want at some point in the future.







He did take my advice about looking at the Ford F-150 rather than a Dodge.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

yeah, minivans are usually pretty bad on gas. I didn't know that either until I started looking at them last time I bought a car.

hehe, true enough about the leverage!

Not that it matters, because I get why you'd let him have his say, but I just found this: http://www.hybridcars.com/hybrid-suv It was the Escape I was thinking of, not the edge. They're not too big!


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

One of my nanny families has a Tahoe hybrid. It gets about the same gas mileage as a minivan, 20-24 MPG. I love driving it. But it's super pricey. We only have one car that can carry everyone and it's generally not a big deal. If DH needs to drive everyone, he just takes the van. Sometimes a pain to switch back and forth though.

JJ, I catch myself doing that too! Saying "No! Not for Ava!" Hahaha! But it's progress.

AFM: Yesterday was mine and DH's fifth wedding anniversary. Our present to each other was doing some deep cleaning and baby-proofing. The plan was that DD would go to my mom's for the day, we would work super hard in the morning, relax a bit in the afternoon, go to an early dinner and then get her around 7 PM. My mom picked her up at 9:30 AM. We worked really hard and got the living room, dining room and kitchen baby-proofed. DH also worked on our bedroom some. Around 1:30 PM, I was really feeling like I needed to go get DD but I talked myself out of it and we went to dinner as planned. It was nice to spend time with DH alone but I missed my baby! We picked her up around 7:30 PM. She had a good time but she only slept 45 minutes all day and would hardly eat. That was just too long for her to be away from both me and DH. She usually holds my hand while she goes to sleep and then I can let go but when I was putting her to bed last night, she did not want to let go of my hand! And when she woke up around 11 PM, instead of just stirring and fussing, she immediately started calling out "mama! mama!"







She seemed ok this morning but we won't be trying that again for a while. Too long!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I don't see as much wrong with "no, not for you," because my issue wih "no!" is that it by itself doesn't teach anything. At least if it's followed up with "not for you," baby has a little idea of why it's no.

Public transportation here sucks! I wish it were more of an option.

Hope every one has a great memorial day,


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Aw, little Ava. Annie, just because I'm curious, why didn't you get her if you had a strong urge to?

DH and I went on a date last night. We just went out to eat and were only gone for maybe 2 hours but it was nice. My mom said Dylan didn't miss us at all.









I mentioned the hybrids. Both my mom and dh said that they aren't as economical as everyone thought they would be. I guess you still use less fuel if you are really concerned about that but it takes at least 10 years to break even with the cost of the vehicle vs. the cost of fuel savings.

I think we're going to a local park that has farm animals. Kellen really wants to go. There's a heat advisory. Crazy weather!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I have to share because I'm so proud of myself. Remember how I've been trying to pay off a credit card? The balance was somewhere between $17,000 and $19,000 back in March 2011 when dh deployed. It is now about $1900 and that is even with charging Christmas and birthday presents! Two more months and it will be completely paid off (assuming dh doesn't keep using it). My plan after that is to save the equivalent of what I was sending as payment each month. That should quickly add up to a nice chunk of savings.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Aw, little Ava. Annie, just because I'm curious, why didn't you get her if you had a strong urge to?


You know, when I felt the urge, it was at 1:30 PM and I knew she was asleep because my mom had just texted me that she went down for a nap. So I rationalized it to myself that there was no sense in me driving out there because she was sleeping and I would just wake her up. And she really did enjoy playing with her cousins (my sister and her two little girls were there also) but it was just too much. I try to listen to my mama instinct but in this situation, I talked myself out of it. Next time I won't do that.

MW, that's so awesome that you guys have paid off that CC so fast! Oh and back to the buying the car talk, for what's it's worth, buying cars in NOVA is usually a good idea. There's so much competition up there that most dealerships are really willing to haggle. I bought my last car in Alexandria.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

MW That' GREAT about the cc debt! That's a large chunk to eat away at so quickly!

Lauri- it's a learning experience, everything. You know now how much you're comfortable with, but you also know that if you needed to leave her for that amount of time with someone, you could.

Ugh. Guys, I am just soo soo spent. I am beyond emotionally and physically drained and just don't know what to do. We've tried asking for help, and get like... bare bones. I had my mother over on Saturday to help out for a bit so I could get stuff done. She knew how much I had to do (like... 2 days worth), and she stayed for 2.5 hours and then practically ran out the door. She keeps talking about how much T is growing so fast, etc, but it seems like she never wants to actually come see her- only if we go out there-- an hour long car ride, to a disgustingly dirty house she smokes in. And it's not just her- it seems like it's the same for all our family. To get help, we have to pretty much call someone up and say we're having a breakdown. Nobody seems to want to come visit/help before that. Which sucks, especially because DH's mom spends approximately 2 full days with one of his sister's kids every week, and a full day with the others... every single week. We just want a few hours here and there.

sigh.

Anyways, and then I tried posting in my local AP group about Tenley's night waking- she's waking every 2 hours on the dot, and I'm convinced it's habitual (ie she doesn't -need- anything, but now her body is waking up every two hours, so she's used to it, and keeps doing it). One of the more outspoken members of the group piped up right away that she "doesn't believe in habitual waking" and that to alter her sleep habits means I'm putting her at risk of SIDS and FTT. And from there pretty much everyone has jumped on me as if I'm talking about nightweaning her and letting her CIO until she sleeps 10 hours straight, rather than hoping she sleeps a few three hour stretches here and there. I've seen them do it to other people before, and it sucks. Most of the group is fantastic, but there's a few that are so rigid-- they are the type that spur the whole time controversy. If it's not their way, then you obviously just don't love your child enough and are risking killing them. She keeps repeating that I just need to reframe my mind, and not look at it as "my child isn't sleeping" and instead think "I am tired". I told her it didn't matter how I looked at it, it still left me being so exhausted that I wake up and plop my baby in front of a movie hoping that the room will stop spinning long enough for me to go find some food. Apparently it doesn't matter if your own health/sanity are compromised, even if this is leading to you not playing with your child, somehow you're just expected to keep pushing through and ignoring it. I asked for stats to back up the FTT and Sids claim, and no one has responded since.

Blargh. I'm just so frustrated, and more frustrated because I was upset, and wanted someone to talk to, and it drives home that I have no freaking friends. Not really that would atually understand anything I'm talking about, or care.

And to top things off, I'm pissed that no matter times I ask him nicely and remind me, DH's idea of helping around the house is to put one dis in the dishwasher. He doesn't clean up any of his stuff, including his laundry (clean or dirty), and if he does do laundry, he'll just leave all the baskets of clean clothes piled on each other downstairs, rather than bring them upstairs. He takes things out in the kitchen (including perishable food), and never puts them back, and then acts like I'm the wicked stepmother when I remind him. And I've been trying to be patient, because he's having a tough time with not being in the career he wants, and feeling like a loser, but I only have so much patience, you know?

*deep breath* thank you ladies  I think I just need to get some of this out, and as I said, I don't have anyone. Now, I'm off to poor myself a glass of skinny girl white cranberry martini and read some books with Tenley


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Oh JJ, I'm so sorry! I know that so tired feeling too, like you can't believe it's time to be awake again. I was there a few short weeks ago. Just keep doing what you are doing, put her in front of a video if you need to but otherwise, here's what I did to help me get through those long couple of months. I slept every time Ava slept, except when I absolutely had to get ready for work. The house was destroyed most days. I just couldn't run around doing chores while she slept. I HAD to sleep when she slept during the day. The nights I wasn't working, I tried to go to bed once she was settled. And some days when she had eaten every 30 mins the night before, yeah she sat and played on the floor while I took a nap on the couch. Now that she's mobile, I can't do that. But her sleep is also miraculously getting better. And it's through nothing I've done. She's just sleeping longer stretches. It will happen. Big hugs!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Ah, ok.

Yeah, after mentioning the cost between here and NC, dh looked and found that trucks actually cost less here.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

JJ ~







. That really sucks that no one in your family will help. Could you hire a mother's helper? Even just once a week for a couple of hours might really help. When I had cleaners come it was only once every two weeks or something like that but it was still amazing.

I agree with Annie, too. It's ok to let everything else go and just sleep whenever the baby sleeps. I know you've said you are a little OCD so I imagine it's very hard for you to have things out of place but sometimes all you can do is let things go. If you can't get any help and you have a choice between sleep or doing the dishes, sleep. Switch to disposable dishes. Don't worry about folding and putting laundry away. Get take out, delivery or premade meals at least sometimes. Things will change and get better as time passes.

Dylan just recently went to sleeping in 3 hour chunks. Before that he was waking at least every 2 hours. I do really think that's normal rather than just habitual, either that or almost all babies who are not sleep trained habitually wake that often. Either way you look at it, it's normal, though, and it will change.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

I know. I'm thinking about hiring a mother's helper. I wish I knew someone with a child the right age who would enjoy it, rather than hiring a stranger. I think once a week for a few hours would be great. Not even for chores, but just me things-- like shaving my legs, or waxing my eye brows, or taking a longer than 6 minute shower, so I feel human. I realized today my fingernails are aggrevatingly long, but I just don't have time to sit down and fix them! lol.

But even so, relaxing on the chores, et al (and trust me I have, the house looks like a tornado), it still doesn't help with me being able to be present for her. I'm so tired that during the day I don't feel like I have the energy to do anything with her, so I keep trying to find her things to do alone, and then getting frustrated when she needs me, which obviously she does- 6 months is too young to be reliably playing alone all the time!. That sucks. I want to be able to play and interact with her, not count the minutes until she may or may not sleep again.

Maybe I'll head to m&ms tomorrow and pick up a whole crapload of packaged meals.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

JJ: move south, we'll help! Nothing you do will make your DH clean up more. BTDT. Have had conversations in calm, in moments of despair, and it doesn't matter, he will or he won't. Guys get in funks too, and this may be his. Doesn't help you though. The only thing I can think of to suggest, is feed baby, thrust baby at DH and run like hell for the door. Even if you are only away 15-20 minutes, it may help reset and recharge your batteries.

I am really tempted to see how much wash and fold servicing is. I don't know when I am supposed to find time to fold the mountain of clean laundry that exists. Putting it away is different, but I can't really have kids with me while I fold. ugh.

Do the packaged meals.

MW: well, at least he did find out where it was cheaper. That's somemthing.

I am so tired and sore. Norah does sleep in longer stretches. I think. sometimes she will take a paci and go back to sleep, sometimes she needs boob. I think she must be sleeping somewhat longer stretches and/or not eatlng as much, my supply is through the roof. I haven't leaked this much since she was newly born. ugh. (I have lots of ughs today apparently)

Your local parenting group . . . see, when drama like that happened, some of the parents split off. There are overlaps, but there is definitely a divide.

*yawn*


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

JJ - I hear you mama!!

The other night I had to go online and read a ton of articles (and I posted them!!) about how it's normal for babies to wake at night to make myself feel better about where we are at right now. I was getting angry and yes, tired, and annoyed that some babies just sleep and don't go thru any type of sleep training. I can't help but feel sometimes that it's something I'm doing wrong, or my fault.

And, what irks me, is that for all the sites that say it's normal, and don't change anything unless YOU feel like you need a change -- they offer little advice on how to actually change things! I won't nightwean until at least 1 year (and that's a bare minimum!) and I'm obv not about to let a baby cry. So. There you go. What the heck then? Suck it up and be tired and have no time for anything other than basic functioning?? When I have mama friends who sleep train and I'm sitting here on my high horse believing they're harming their babies -- when they have energy for their husbands, for themselves, for their other kids?? For running half marathons and for going to the gym, and looking fabulous for date nights with their husbands?? I must look like such a sucker, you know?

I just wish I had energy. I want to be in shape, I want to feel rested!

Then I remember...oh yes. I have a young baby. There will be time for all that, and no, I won't take any short cuts that could potentially harm my baby, that won't work in the long run.

You wouldn't push a baby to crawl or walk, or potty learn before he was developmentally ready. You also can't push a baby to sleep thru the night before they are ready. It's a developmental milestone. Some get there before others, the same way some babies crawl, walk, talk, potty train before others. Its ok. It will pass. You will get thru this. And you'll need to find a middle ground to do so. Especially since you're seeing Ten doesn't want to nurse, she might just need a pat/shush, or a paci, or just to wake fully so she can be rocked back down. Is your DH helping with that stuff? Mine isn't. I realize that I need to stop insisting I do it all, b/c it just makes me burnt out. I'm going to try hard to let him help on the rough nights. It's only fair.

Sleep whenever she sleeps, even if it's a powernap for 20 min. It'll HELP! I nap with Finn every time I physically can. The house will be there when I wake up rested, or DH can tackle it in bits and pieces later.

Anyway, all that to say, I hear you!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> And, what irks me, is that for all the sites that say it's normal, and don't change anything unless YOU feel like you need a change -- they offer little advice on how to actually change things! I won't nightwean until at least 1 year (and that's a bare minimum!) and I'm obv not about to let a baby cry. So. There you go. What the heck then? Suck it up and be tired and have no time for anything other than basic functioning??


Exactly! It seems like if you're not willing to do hardcore sleep training and let them CIO, then the alternative is just well... deal with it. But what if you can't? What if you -are- one of those mamas who does need a change? Not just want, but need.

Dh helps sometimes... but he gives in -so- quickly. Last night he got up with her to rock her back to sleep, but he was back in less than 5 minutes and just put her in bed with us. So I got crap sleep for the rest of the night. Don't get me wrong-- I -love- that I have a husband who is willing to do that- both to go get her, and to bring her into our bed if that's what he feels she needs. But it makes you feel like you'd be better off just going and getting her, and getting her back to sleep yourself, because then at least I'd have my bedspace and get a little bit of sleep.

I know it's going to be a matter of just finding a balance and making it work, it's just hard i the meantime!


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

JJ, is Ten in her own room now? If so, mama, I would figure out a way to sidecar her crib, even temporarily. I don't sleep well with Ava right up against me but since she has her own space in her sidecarred crib, we sleep better. And now I only wake up when the bottle is empty. If she were nursing, I probably wouldn't wake up. She eats on and off all night. I know your house is small but I would seriously do whatever it takes to get her back in the room if she's out.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Norah doesn't sleep well or for long without human contact. she is just a touchy baby. One way in which DS was easier, is that he could and would fall asleep whenever, wherever. She will not. Needs to be wrapped, laid down with, or in car seat to sleep. And she won't transfer from car to crib/bed asleep. She will stay asleep from car to wrap, but that's it.

One day I will not be tired. I don't know when, maybe sometime this decade if I'm lucky.

Norah can get her self into a sitting position and pull herself up to standing now. Still not quite crawling. sort of backwards, but nothing fast or efficient.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> And, what irks me, is that for all the sites that say it's normal, and don't change anything unless YOU feel like you need a change -- they offer little advice on how to actually change things!


Maybe that's because there isn't really much you can do?







Like you said, it's a milestone thing and you can't make a baby sleep longer until s/he is ready unless you just ignore him/her. So, what do you do? IDK


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> One day I will not be tired. I don't know when, maybe sometime this decade if I'm lucky.


I feel the same way! Sometime in the next few years, this will be a distant memory! I have faith in that!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Maybe that's because there isn't really much you can do?
> 
> ...


Very true! Very very true!!

I have to keep my sense of humor about it, too. That's what keeps me sane. Plus, once I have my coffee in the am, I'm usually fine. It's just the actual getting up in the morning that hurts! (and sometimes I'm propping my eyelids with toothpicks to stay awake at night!)

Finn is officially crawling and is getting fast! Up til today he was hesitant anywhere but indoors, but today he crawled a few feet on grass. It's fun!

He keeps getting into the cats water fountain! I have to put the gate up to the kitchen, I suppose, even though honestly I love having him play with the fridge magnets while I cook/clean. I could just keep redirecting, otherwise!

Had a great day today. Got to whole foods, had a good shopping trip with both kids (unheard of!?) and then we played out back with the kiddie pool for a bit (the one Finn was born in, which was neat!). Finn took a short nap on me while DH worked from outside and Nora played. It's officially summer! Love it!

It's strange thinking things like "this time last year" b/c we are getting so close to 1st birthdays!! Alysia, Lauri, anyone -- you guys have bday party plans?


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Isn't the mobility fun?!? DD isn't doing traditional crawling but she gets to where she wants to go. The other day she was in the living room kind of fussing and I was in the kitchen getting her lunch ready so I said "Come here Ava!" and she came to me! So easy! But she laughs when I say "Not for Ava" and attempt to redirect...this child is going to give me more gray hair!

We are having DD's party the Saturday before her b-day. We are going to have it at my mom's house and just have a cookout w/the baby pool out for DD and my nieces. I submitted DD's info to that organization Icing Smiles and they are donating a special cake for DD's 1st b-day because of her heart. I requested an Elmo cake because that's going to be the theme. I'm aiming for very laid back.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Plus, once I have my coffee in the am, I'm usually fine. It's just the actual getting up in the morning that hurts! (and sometimes I'm propping my eyelids with toothpicks to stay awake at night!)


This is me, too! It's so hard getting out of bed in the morning when I think of all the things I have to do before I can even have that first cup of coffee. Just having to carry Dylan downstairs seems like so much sometimes. I keep telling myself I should set the coffee up the night before but I'm usually way too tired to even think about it as I'm heading to bed. Hmmm...maybe I should try setting it up during the day right after I get my last cup.

And, ok, I don't want to burst anyone's bubbles but I'm not sure you will get a full night's rest until maybe your kids are 30.







I can see me laying awake at night worrying about my boys even after they've moved out. I know I did that with Ryan many nights. It was hard to sleep knowing he wasn't there.

Dylan is a fast crawler! He can really book it when he wants, especially when he sees a gate down and is making a break for it.

I've been too busy with planning stuff for dh's birthday and then Kellen's to think about Dylan's yet.

That reminds me. For the Williamsburg timeshare payments, my mom said payment a month before the trip would be good, so August 14th or so. I'm thinking it's probably easier if I PM or email you all her name and address so you can send checks straight to her. But, if you all would rather, I can collect the money and just give her one check. It's totally up to you all. I don't mind one way or the other.

We went to the library with the homeschool group to make medieval swords and shields as part of a Rick Riordan book club thing. I don't actually know the author but I knew Ethan and Kellen would love making the stuff. They are still asking me and dh to make them things at home. There is so much more homeschool stuff to do up here. I am amazed. It makes J'Ville look like hicksville. They have horseback riding and foreign language and music and art and oceanography on a working boat and just about anything you could think of. It's been hard for me to not sign up for everything but I have to remember that we are just visiting and can't sign up for a 6 week course.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> JJ, is Ten in her own room now? If so, mama, I would figure out a way to sidecar her crib, even temporarily. I don't sleep well with Ava right up against me but since she has her own space in her sidecarred crib, we sleep better. And now I only wake up when the bottle is empty. If she were nursing, I probably wouldn't wake up. She eats on and off all night. I know your house is small but I would seriously do whatever it takes to get her back in the room if she's out.


She is. I keep going back and forth with that. We had her in the pack and play beside the bed, but she started refusing to sleep in it. She would wake up within 30 seconds of us putting her down in it. So we finally just last week pulled it out of the room and brought it to the living room instead, and she sometimes plays in it. I don't have anything else I could sidecar. I'm wondering if it would be worth trying her crib mattress on the floor? When DH put the crib together he put some sort of lock tight stuff on the bolts and I'm not sure it'll ever come undone without breaking it *grumbles* (especially since it converts to a toddler bed, and won't fit in and out of the room without disassembling...) I'd just have to put higher pillows up against her crib mattress, because when she wakes up, she fusses herself to the edge of the crib as it is.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> Norah doesn't sleep well or for long without human contact. she is just a touchy baby. One way in which DS was easier, is that he could and would fall asleep whenever, wherever. She will not. Needs to be wrapped, laid down with, or in car seat to sleep. And she won't transfer from car to crib/bed asleep. She will stay asleep from car to wrap, but that's it.
> 
> Norah can get her self into a sitting position and pull herself up to standing now. Still not quite crawling. sort of backwards, but nothing fast or efficient.


See T doesn't have to be touching (most of the time, sometimes she does sleep better, but I chalk it up to teething and such), but I do wonder about the proximity- like her being able to hear us and smell us, if that would help her settle more. We've got a good naptime/bedtime routine down, so she falls asleep quickly now (is this a repeat, I've been talking about this so many times, I don't know where I've said what) it's just the staying asleep, like I said.

It's too funny how different every baby is! T is sitting like a pro, and can push herself backwards really fast, and is working so so hard at going forwards. But she has no interest in doing the jumping thing if you stand her on her legs, and has no idea that she even could pull herself up to sitting! lol. I don't think its even crossed her mind. Her second cousin is exctly a month older than her, and pushes/jumps really well on his legs, but hes like jello if you try to sit him up.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> We are having DD's party the Saturday before her b-day. We are going to have it at my mom's house and just have a cookout w/the baby pool out for DD and my nieces. I submitted DD's info to that organization Icing Smiles and they are donating a special cake for DD's 1st b-day because of her heart. I requested an Elmo cake because that's going to be the theme. I'm aiming for very laid back.


That is so cool about the cake!

We are quite a ways off (SIX MONTHS TODAY! HOLY CRAP!), but I have no idea what's going to happen for T's birthday. I love all the neat ideas I see on pinterest, but nobody in our family really does stuff like that, so I have a feeling it would be a lot of work for something nobody would notice or appreciate. We'll see I guess. Some of them look too tempting to pass up.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> And, ok, I don't want to burst anyone's bubbles but I'm not sure you will get a full night's rest until maybe your kids are 30.
> 
> 
> ...


LOL It's funny how your perspective changes though! Who cares about a whole night's sleep? I'll take four hours! That sounds like heaven! lol

Ok, so last night, I knew T was going to have a normal wakeup at about 1130, so I went in at 1120, and picked her up out of the crib and cuddled her while I read for a bit. I didn't nurse or anything, and she didn't wake up, just cuddled. After about 10 minutes, I put her back in her crib, and she kept sleeping. She slept for another hour and a bit before she woke and then rob brought her into the room. So that meant she went from 730ish until about 1245 without nursing. If I could get one 5 hour stretch a night that would be beyond amazing. Heck, even if she's waking a bit, but not needing to nurse, that means DH can go in, while I keep sleeping. That would be miraculous.

I got some packaged meals today, and talked to rob about a mother's helper. He wants to try family again first before paying people. I get it, but I feel so pathetic constantly asking people again and again. We'll try one more time.

In other non-baby news, I have a meeting/coffee date tomorrow with the girl from my attachment group who is going to be my backup doula/partner. I'm so excited! And then we're going to try to go out to the lake on Thursday I hope.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeninejessica*
> 
> She is. I keep going back and forth with that. We had her in the pack and play beside the bed, but she started refusing to sleep in it. She would wake up within 30 seconds of us putting her down in it. So we finally just last week pulled it out of the room and brought it to the living room instead, and she sometimes plays in it. I don't have anything else I could sidecar. I'm wondering if it would be worth trying her crib mattress on the floor? When DH put the crib together he put some sort of lock tight stuff on the bolts and I'm not sure it'll ever come undone without breaking it *grumbles* (especially since it converts to a toddler bed, and won't fit in and out of the room without disassembling...) I'd just have to put higher pillows up against her crib mattress, because when she wakes up, she fusses herself to the edge of the crib as it is.


If it were me in that situation, I would be scouring craigslist or kiijijii or whatever in your area to find a used crib that I could put in my bedroom. We have Ava's crib up against the wall and then our bed pushed up against Ava's crib. Like this:



So when I lay where the brown duvet cover is in the picture, Ava is there, but we aren't interrupting each other's sleep. I seriously would have been close to suicidal if I was having to get out of the bed and go to another room when DD was on her every 30 min wakeups a few months back.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeninejessica*
> 
> LOL It's funny how your perspective changes though! Who cares about a whole night's sleep? I'll take four hours! That sounds like heaven! lol


This is so true. I know those 3 hour stretches of sleep feel like heaven now, especially when Dylan does one of his refusing to settle things like he did this morning. He probably flopped around for about 2 hours from about 6:30-8:30 while I tried to get him back to sleep. Ugh.

Annie ~ I forgot to say that cake deal is very cool! I want to do something like that in our room so we'll have room for everyone in our bed but I can't get dh to agree. He keeps hemming and hawing about it. I think he still thinks we can get the bigger boys to sleep in their room. I just don't see it happening anytime soon. Here at my mom's the boys and I are in a queen with a twin air mattress next to it. I've had to insist that Ethan sleep on the air mattress. He is not happy about it at all even though he's right next to me and can touch me. I don't see why we can't just chill and all be together in the same bed.

Ethan has decided he wants to make a red velvet cake for dh for his birthday. I think we're going to try to make one from scratch. DH is being a very good sport about it without me having to say anything since he doesn't really eat cake and I seriously doubt he likes red velvet. Ethan got the idea from a baking game he plays on the computer.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Birthdays: We have so many fall birthdays, I am torn what to do. I think this year we may do separate parties, since it's Norah's first birthday. But I think we may do joint parties in the future, since they are so close together. Shoot, between my dad, me, and the kids, we could have one big fiesta and call it a day.

Annie - that's awesome about Ava's cake. the idea of sidecarring a crib is very tempting. I wonder if Norah would go for it. It would sure make DTD a bit easier. (I am about to ovulate I think and sex is on my mind alot. go figure)

Carrie and MW - crawling is awesome, isnt' it? Norah gets closer and closer every day, but isn't fast yet. She gets frustrated easily. She loves to stand and jump and I know will be walking before her first birthday. That scares me a little.

JJ: hooray on a 5 hour no nursing stretch!

My coffee is delayed this morning due to stupid fasting bloodwork. ugh. I am hungry and want my coffee!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I don't do big things for birthdays until the kids can ask for it. I'm so glad Kellen changed his mind. He first said he wanted Chuck E. Cheese, which I can't stand, plus up here in NoVA I imagine it's crowded all the time, and we don't know any other kids up here to invite. Yesterday, though, he said he wanted to go bowling. We can do that as a family without making it a big production.

Sean got a new truck. It is so ridiculously huge. It's obnoxious. I am embarrassed by it. I don't even know what to say.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

what sort of truck?

I fully admit I use the kids birthdays as an excuse throw a party and see all our friends. They could care less, really.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

It's a Ford F-150 crew cab (I think). The problem I have is that it's jacked up on humongous wheels. The bed is taller than me. I need a stool to get into it. So much for getting something that I can drive. And, to think, he argued against a SUV because he said he'd need a Suburban (which was not true but whatever). This thing is bigger than a Suburban.

My mom says it's his mid-life crisis.







It really is embarrassing. It makes me wonder what he's trying to compensate for.







I don't know if I could bring myself to ride in it. I don't want it parked anywhere near my house. I don't want people to know that I'm associated with something like that at all.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I figured out who BFS is on FB. Her boy turned 1 today! DH's b-day is today, too.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Happy birthday to your DH. would you like it better if it were on normal wheels? (trying to find a compromise LOL) and would he do that? I don't know if I'd feel safe even trying to put kids in carseats in a vehicle that high. (Safety concerns, that's a talking point!)

Am I friends w/ BFS? I know I am with Lyterae.


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

MW - sorry about the midlife crisis!







I wonder if/when me or DH will go through something like that. I can't stand driving big vehicles. I learned how to drive with a van though. I think the smaller top part just makes it easier.

RE: sleeping. I can't really complain anymore. Usually I get a pretty good nights sleep these days. A is about the best sleeper I have had







The only times I really hear from her at night is if she is teething or something else is bothering her. But I really think that the amber necklace has helped. It sure seems like she has had the least amount of trouble with teething. Who knows though - its super cute either way!

I guess I really am lucky that my husband is OCD and not me. I keep things at least surface clean most days, but if I am ever sick or really tired he picks up the slack. PLUUUUS he is super clean, so I don't ever really have to clean up after him. Srsly though ladies, it's all about survival. Especially with only one kid, I would take a nap every time the baby slept if I was tired. I never really had that opportunity as I never JUST had a baby.

JJ - if you slept more during the day would you maybe have more energy to do things at night when she is sleeping? Also, maybe you could start taking b vitamins or coq 10 or something.

I feel sooooooo much better now that I pay attention to what I eat, eat smaller meals, and started taking probiotics. Probiotics made me feel like craaaaaap for about 6 weeks though, I am just starting to recover. It is totally worth it to not feel so tired all the time though









Anyways I am sure I am forgetting a bunch - but that is all I can think of for now.


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

I'm not friends with BFS or Lyterae. I thought BFS had her baby before me? I guess not.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *annie2186*
> 
> MW - sorry about the midlife crisis!
> 
> ...


I keep thinking about getting an Amber and holding off. Initially I didn't, because she had the hazelwood and I didn't want to mix them. But then we started being lazy and forgetting to put the hazelwood back on, and she's been ok without it, so I really should get an amber one and try that.

I used to sleep with her during the afternoon nap, but her naps now aren't usually longer than half hour or so at most. Every now and then she'll do a long one, and I try to take advantage, but normally by the time she falls asleep, I crawl into bed (or shimmy myself into a laying down position and get comfy), and close my eyes and five minutes later, she's waking up.

But yes-- good timing, DH and I were talking last night, and he said he suspects food is at the root of some of it, and I agree. I've started eating a lot healthier- but part of that has been avoiding packaged foods- which are the easy ones often. And so in wanting to eat healthy, a lot of the time if I didn't have time to make 'good food', I just didn't make food. Then I get hungry and sick and it's a cascade effect. I need to start taking my vitamins again (multi, vit D) and eating at least two freaking meals a day and go from there.

ANYWAYS... this is all prelude to... SHE SLEPT SO WELL LAST NIGHT!!! For the first time in probably a month, she went to bed around 8ish, and then woke at 915 or so? but I didn't even have to pick her up, I just rubbed her back and shushed her and stroked her head. And then she slept until 1 !!! And then we nursed a ton, and I put her back in, and she slept until 530 !!!! And then she woke up for good at about 7, and laid quietly in bed with me, nursed quickly a couple times, until 8am. Oh it was heaven! I missed the first stretch because I was still awake, but even just knowing it happened was wonderful! And then for it to happen AGAIN... *happy sigh*


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeninejessica*
> 
> ANYWAYS... this is all prelude to... SHE SLEPT SO WELL LAST NIGHT!!! For the first time in probably a month, she went to bed around 8ish, and then woke at 915 or so? but I didn't even have to pick her up, I just rubbed her back and shushed her and stroked her head. And then she slept until 1 !!! And then we nursed a ton, and I put her back in, and she slept until 530 !!!! And then she woke up for good at about 7, and laid quietly in bed with me, nursed quickly a couple times, until 8am. Oh it was heaven! I missed the first stretch because I was still awake, but even just knowing it happened was wonderful! And then for it to happen AGAIN... *happy sigh*












Go Tenley!!! That's how it's done, baby girl!!!

MW - I'm LOL'ing about the truck! OMG! I'd prob be to embarrassed to ride, as well! That's just too much!!

re: mobile babies - so Finn crawls, but can't sit up from laying down. He also doesn't roll over. He can stand forever, but doesn't pull himself up. Interesting, huh?

Today I've been making mental notes of all the times Chris belittles me or puts me down. I feel like he does this more than he realizes. I think I file it away and try not to get hurt more than not...but lately his comments are stinging. What is good way to approach talking to him about it?


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

OMG, MW, I'm imagining that truck and it does sound obnoxious! Yikes! Maybe make him keep it on base and run back and forth to work once you guys are back home?









JJ, so glad Ten slept better last night! Ava's sleep is slowly getting better too. It's just one of those things. Takes time, sucks in the moment.

AFM, I was freaking out last night and this morning! My pump started making this weird noise and was hardly sucking at all. I do not have the money in our budget to buy a new one (this one was loaned from a friend so warranty voided since it's a "single-user" product) so I posted to my local mothering group to see if anyone had one to sell me cheap and one of my friends said she's done with babies and gave me hers! Oh sweet relief! I was so uncomfortable and felt like I was starting to get clogged ducts because the pump wasn't emptying my boobs.

Oh and Baby_Cakes, DD can get herself all over the place but she's not crawling. She has sat herself up from laying down twice but can't consistently do it. She can sort of pull herself up but won't stand for long. Babies are weird.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> AFM, I was freaking out last night and this morning! My pump started making this weird noise and was hardly sucking at all. I do not have the money in our budget to buy a new one (this one was loaned from a friend so warranty voided since it's a "single-user" product) so I posted to my local mothering group to see if anyone had one to sell me cheap and one of my friends said she's done with babies and gave me hers! Oh sweet relief! I was so uncomfortable and felt like I was starting to get clogged ducts because the pump wasn't emptying my boobs.


Oh I'm glad you found one! Otherwise, honestly I would have sent you mine to have!!

Did you check/replace your membranes? I had to do that quite a few times, and I was only using my pump for work!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

JJ ~ Woot!









Kat and annie ~ I checked FB and only have 1 friend in common with BFS, Carrie. Everyone's birth dates are listed in the first post. That's how I figured out who BFS was.

lyterae was before you, annie, and BFS was after.

DH already has the truck with the ridiculous tires on it. I did talk to him about that sort of thing after we looked at some Silverados. They were all jacked up and I commented All on how huge they were and I didn't see the need for that. I also mentioned that the higher up a vehicle is the less safe it is. DH doesn't seem to care.







I'm going to get a photo of me standing next to it when he comes up this weekend. I'll post it so you guys can get a visual. All I can say is that it is ridiculous. And this from a man who when we met was driving a Mazda 626 because before me he was dating someone with a young child and he wanted a safe car with enough room to transport him. WTH? He'll do that then for a girlfriend and some other guy's kid but he won't do it for his own wife and family?

Carrie ~ Either say something right away when he does it, ask him when he can make some time to talk about it or write everything down and let him read it. Try to make whatever you say or write about how you feel rather than what he's saying/doing.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Haha, Annie. I already told dh he would have to park it up the street and around the corner.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Oh I'm glad you found one! Otherwise, honestly I would have sent you mine to have!!
> 
> Did you check/replace your membranes? I had to do that quite a few times, and I was only using my pump for work!


I thought about asking you! But I needed something TODAY. I was getting some serious knots and increasing pain. It wasn't pretty! The noise is when it goes to the expression phase...it sounds tired like the motor is about to die. Which given how much I've used it the last 10 months plus the time my friend used it before she loaned it me, I'm not surprised.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> I thought about asking you! But I needed something TODAY. I was getting some serious knots and increasing pain. It wasn't pretty! The noise is when it goes to the expression phase...it sounds tired like the motor is about to die. Which given how much I've used it the last 10 months plus the time my friend used it before she loaned it me, I'm not surprised.


Ugh! I'm glad you got something quick!!! Thank goodness!!!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> re: mobile babies - so Finn crawls, but can't sit up from laying down. He also doesn't roll over. He can stand forever, but doesn't pull himself up. Interesting, huh?
> 
> Today I've been making mental notes of all the times Chris belittles me or puts me down. I feel like he does this more than he realizes. I think I file it away and try not to get hurt more than not...but lately his comments are stinging. What is good way to approach talking to him about it?


I think a lot of it is a/ what they see others around them doing and find interesting, and b/ what their priorities are! Sometimes I swear you can see the wheels in their heads turn and be like "meh, why would I want to ____ when I can ____"

No advice really, but  It sucks feeling put down by someone you love.

MW, I don't think the F150 is really that big a truck at all, but the raised tires would be a deal breaker for me! ugh! I hate that look, and especially since you already told him you don't like them like htat.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeninejessica*
> 
> MW, I don't think the F150 is really that big a truck at all, but the raised tires would be a deal breaker for me! ugh! I hate that look, and especially since you already told him you don't like them like htat.


Yeah, the truck normally isn't that huge, although the supercrew cab makes it bigger. The whole thing up on tires that make the bed alone higher than 5 feet is ridiculous, though! What in the world do we need that for? I mean, maybe I can see that if you work on a farm or construction site where you will be driving the thing over rocks and ruts and such but just to drive it on pavement? I just can't get over it. It's bad enough that he wanted a pickup, something he had never before mentioned.

It's his, though. And, although I did give my opinion about things, I also told him to get whatever he wanted. I didn't want to tell him what to get or not get. I'm tired of making all the decisions. Now I remember why I do, though.







From now on, I will just do it myself.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

LOL, what's the saying? If you want something done, delegate. If you want it done right, do it yourself.

I always picture the raised trucks as being driven by 17 year old scrawny boys. lol


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I see big truck = stupid *******. We have lots of those here, so he'd fit right in :hehe:

Annie: glad you got one so fast! I had to wiggle the bit where the ac adapter connects to the pump, and it works better now (it would barely pump) I used it for a year with DS, and am going on 8 months with DD . . . but it only gets used 2-4 times a week. And I bought mine used. So who knows?

JJ: Hooray for sleep! Tenly, do that all the time now, you hear?

Carrie: Finn is fine. He just has movement as a priority. and you need to talk with DH somehow. Or email him the list.

AFM: craptastic busyness the next 2 days. Today is chiro appointment - yay! - but we also need to get the house ready because we are having a playdate/ essential oil class here tomorrow. . . ugh. and I need to come up with some refreshements. Joy. Norah is getting great at getting herself to sitting. Not exactly crawling, but moves, but I don't know that she ends up where she is trying to go.

DS . . . has wonderful moments and sucky moments. He's 2. I imagine this pattern will continue until he's a teenager. Love being a mom, right?


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I'm going to try to be a little chatty. I haven't been posting much on here since I came to VA and I feel like I'm missing something.









Ethan got dh good this morning. Last night Ethan was watching a kid show and it was the same episode for the umpteenth time. DH made a sarcastic comment about how we had _never_ seen that one before. This morning Ethan came down and saw dh watching ESPN highlights and said the same thing. He even knew what they were going to say.









I feel like I haven't slept for 2 days. After saying how nice it was that D was sleeping in 3 hour stretches he decided he was done with that. He's been squirmy and restless ever since.

JJ ~ I've been wondering, do you think maybe you are expecting too much from yourself? I started thinking about that after one day when I was very tired and D was overly fussy. All I could do was lay in the middle of the floor and let him climb all over me while he fussed. I was too tired to do anything else. Most of the time, at home in the morning I set D down in the living room and let him entertain himself while I drink my coffee and go through my emails and whatnot. Anyway, my point is that you don't have to entertain or actively interact with T all the time. It's ok to let her entertain herself for a while. If you could find something to set her up in to keep her safe and occupied for a while, maybe you could get a catnap or two on the couch while she's awake.

D just took a few more steps without holding on to anything. I can't wait until he starts walking. It will make it so much easier to be outside with the kids, I think.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Carrie ~ Here's the new version of the bedrails we have. http://www.safety1st.com/usa/eng/Products/Home-Safety/Bed-Rails/Details/1907-09022-Secure-Top-Bed-Rail Ours aren't exactly like that because they are old. They work well and I like that they can fit different height mattresses. They are noisy, though, when putting up and down so it's not something you can leave down, put baby down to sleep and then set up. I leave it up all the time but then it can be a pain climbing in and out of bed myself and putting baby down over it sometimes.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

MW, is it possible he's cutting another tooth or getting sick? DD was super fussy/restless for a couple of nights and she started showing signs of being sick yesterday. I took her to the pediatrician in the afternoon because she was breathing fast and her abdomen was pulling in so she was working kind of hard to breath. The pedi said she was wheezing so he did an nebulizer breathing treatment on her. She acted like she felt so much better after she woke up from her afternoon nap but I could tell we were at the beginning of the sickness rather than the end. She woke up at 5 AM fussy with a fever. She went potty, we played for a bit and her temp kept going up and she was fussy so I gave her some ibuprofen and we went back to bed. She slept on and off all morning but she was cooler to the touch when I left for work. DH texted me that she ate a whole meatball and some cheesy rice so it sounds like she's feeling better!

DD is so on the move lately! I'm looking forward to her walking too so we can go to the playground and play! I don't think she will be walking by her birthday though. She's just not that steady on her feet yet.

I got a promotion at work so all of my weekday shifts now will be 4-midnight instead of the random 2-10:30 shift on Mondays. I'm so happy. I hated Monday being different than the rest of the week! I've also been looking for someone else to take care of DD because my goddaughter's mom is due with her second baby the beginning of October. I met a very nice lady on Thursday who has a 14 month old boy that she would bring too. I need to schedule to have her come back so DH can meet her too.

Baby_Cakes, I loved your Disney pics! I was on the Disney Divas blog the other night and reading all sorts of great tips for taking a toddler to Disney so now I want to try to go during the big kids' spring break in 2014. Agh!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Annie ~ Congratulations on the promotion!

I don't think D is getting sick. He's not otherwise fussy or anything. I think the first night was because he ate baked beans. Last night was really weird. He skipped his second nap and then fell asleep around 8:30. I was fully expecting him to wake up around 9:30 or 10 and be up for 2-3 more hours but he kept on sleeping. He woke up when the rest of us went in the room for bed around 11 but wasn't any trouble. He nursed and went right back to sleep. Then he was just squirmy and restless. It's very possible that he's always squirmy like that and it doesn't bother him while he's sleeping but disturbs me. I'm not sure what to do about that. Whenever I try to move away from him he wakes and fusses.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Will catch up asap but first...ugh. Was at a fancy party with the kids and DH today (100 day ceremony/wedding reception) ...went to take Nora to the potty and guess who I ran into!? Hello 1st PP AF! I think I win most creative use of a nursing pad! LOL!!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Will catch up asap but first...ugh. Was at a fancy party with the kids and DH today (100 day ceremony/wedding reception) ...went to take Nora to the potty and guess who I ran into!? Hello 1st PP AF! I think I win most creative use of a nursing pad! LOL!!


Hiss! Boo!









Carrie ~ I wanted to say that I didn't give much input on talking with your dh. I could tell you what I'd do but it's almost certainly not the best way to have a rational discussion with someone about something like that.


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

Ok, I've searched and put off asking this for a long time. What are rockstar mamas?


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Adaline'sMama*
> 
> Ok, I've searched and put off asking this for a long time. What are rockstar mamas?


Hi Adaline's Mama...first I want to say that I'm so sorry about your Charlie. I've thought about you lots over the past two months and I hope you are doing o.k.

We started calling ourselves Rockstar mamas because we all do things that the others think are amazing, for instance MarineWife has to solo parent most of the time because her DH is deployed or in training programs. We used to go by the term "Whatever" mamas because when we were all getting pregnant last year, none of us really fit in the TTC groups because we weren't actively TTC, if that makes any sense. We were just "whatevering" and if we got pregnant, great.

Feel free to join us! We just mostly chat about random parenting stuff!


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Will catch up asap but first...ugh. Was at a fancy party with the kids and DH today (100 day ceremony/wedding reception) ...went to take Nora to the potty and guess who I ran into!? Hello 1st PP AF! I think I win most creative use of a nursing pad! LOL!!


Gah! That stinks! So sorry but good thing you had a nursing pad!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Adaline'sMama*
> 
> Ok, I've searched and put off asking this for a long time. What are rockstar mamas?


All mamas are rockstars. Like Annie said, we changed the name of our group after a discussion about how amazing we all are.









I am so sorry for your loss, too.







for Charlie.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Carrie, I don't even carry nursing pads with me any more, go you on creativity!
Adakine's mama, heart goes out to on Charlie. Congrats though on the new one coming next year!
MW, LOL! I miss us being chatty! And mobility! Norah wants to walk so badly! I don't know how long it will be before she is off and running. She is nearly cruising, trying to stand up on her own. Her balance isn't bad, considering she isn't even 8 months old yet! Tell Dylan he needs to walk!

I want Gabe to potty train but I don't feel like doing it all at the same time. Ow awful is that?


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Did I tell you all that Kellen has not worn a Pull-Up since we came up here and hasn't had any accidents? I think it may even have been as long as since the first time we came up here just to visit when he drove all the way in just regular shorts. It is so nice not having to clean poo off him anymore and he did it all himself. He goes in the bathroom on his own accord now whether he's naked or wearing underwear (I got him some new superhero underwear).

Kellen is going to be 5 on Saturday! I can't believe it. We're not doing anything big, just the family for cake and presents and maybe going bowling since Kellen mentioned wanting to do that. We'll go home next week.

Dylan is up to taking two steps at a time rather than just the random one here and there. I still don't think he realizes he's doing it, though. And he loves to eat.

An awful thing happened yesterday. Kellen accidentally let my mom's dog out. When she gets loose she just runs. She also, apparently, has an issue with a couple of small dogs in the neighborhood who just happened to be out at the same time. She attacked one of them! The other dog is ok, nothing serious, but still. I feel responsible because, first, I should have been watching Kellen and the dog at the door more vigilantly and, second, I gave the dog to my mom. She's a la/pitbull mix. My mom has always had lab or retriever mixes so I thought she'd be ok with this dog. Now I'm thinking that maybe she can't handle it. Anyway, I was so upset that I could not get to sleep last night. I was lying in bed awake until at least 1 am. And, of course, Dylan slept from like 9-3.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Yay Kellen!!!

Along those lines, Kat, I don't think its necessary to push it or make it a chore for you or for Gabe. If he's getting it mostly and it's not bothering you that he's in and out of dipes, just take it slow.

I'm totally hoping with Finnley I'm not crazy about PL'ing like I was with Nora. I really pushed it and I think I was too intense about it. You guys even tried to tell me and I didn't really listen. So. Keep me honest in a year or so, ok?









Adalinesmama - Yes, all mamas are Rockstar mamas! Please, feel free to join in! I remember reading about your loss and feeling a huge weight of sadness for you. My thoughts are with you!







for Charlie.

Alysia - FIVE!? Oh gosh!

I'm all over the place, sorry guys!

Nora woke up puking this morning and feverish with diarrhea as well, and it's been a busy day in that dept. Finn is actually on a perfect nap schedule though, so at least I have that! 2.5 hours this morning and going on 2 hours again this evening. He's happy, I'm happy. He pulled up for the first time yesterday!!! And lately he's been falling while standing b/c he lets go trying to stand. He'll learn!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Jumping in randomly...

LOL I was wondering how long it was going to take before someone was like "Uh, rockstars?" But yes, we are the old "Whatever" girls, who decided we are freaking rockstars for dealing with what we do! lol

On that note... I don't think any of us will be whatevering again, will we? lol Or I shouldn't say never... but it'll be a few years!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> Carrie, I don't even carry nursing pads with me any more, go you on creativity!
> Adakine's mama, heart goes out to on Charlie. Congrats though on the new one coming next year!
> ...


I really should throw one of my cloth pads into the bottom of DD's diaper bags. She's 6m, and I haven't felt anything lately, but for a while there I kept feeling cramping and just 'offness' off and on, so I should be prepared just in case.

I think the desire not to go through potty learning is one of the reasons we're sort of doing EC with Ten. At this age there's no stress, it's just kind of fun and nice to see the communication. But I've seen even just as a care provider, how stressful it can get later on, and I don't want to do that! lol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Did I tell you all that Kellen has not worn a Pull-Up since we came up here and hasn't had any accidents? I think it may even have been as long as since the first time we came up here just to visit when he drove all the way in just regular shorts. It is so nice not having to clean poo off him anymore and he did it all himself. He goes in the bathroom on his own accord now whether he's naked or wearing underwear (I got him some new superhero underwear).
> Kellen is going to be 5 on Saturday! I can't believe it. We're not doing anything big, just the family for cake and presents and maybe going bowling since Kellen mentioned wanting to do that. We'll go home next week.


Good job! It must feel so nice to know it's one less thing you're worrying about. And holy crap, yeah I'm in denial that he's almost 5. He should be three still *nods*

Umm, so we went camping last Thursday night, and while chopping kindling, Rob hit his hand, and potentially nicked/severed a tendon in his thumb. He has essentially no use of it, and there are potentially looking at having to do surgery. It's so ridiculous (and I mean this in the disbelief, refusing to really come to terms with it, way), but something that looks so tiny, and was such a fluke accident, and if it doesn't magically fix itself in the next few days (he hasn't had an MRI yet, so they don't know the extent of the damage), may actually mean he has no hope of pursuing the career he's been working towards since high school. All for a freaking camping accident.

On a personal level, it has me wiped. Because he can barely pick up Ten, can't change her diaper, or help bathe her. He can't do things like carry laundry baskets up and down the stairs, and can only do about half of what he normally can in the kitchen. So now he's home, and I"m actually doing more than I normally do. *sigh* He has been great about taking Ten in the mornings though, so I can sleep in a bit (and by a bit I mean like 30 minutes). I get her up, take her potty, change her, and put her in the living room with him, and then they play together until she starts fussing, and then he comes and gets me.

He has a drs note to be off work until next week, but says he's going to go back tomorrow or wednesday because he doesn't want to lose the money. I'm torn. I think I'm going to try to squeeze at least one more day out of him, so I can try to just suck it up and tornado through the house cleaning, while he's here to entertain Ten. And then once he goes back, I think I'm going to try to do a lot more outings during the time he's not home. She does better, I'm better because I can interact with people, and then we're not messing up the clean house either. It's worth a shot!

Anyways... I'm thankful the injury wasn't worse (he could have easily chopped his thumb and pointer finger off), but just feels like one more thing to add to the pile... sheesh!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Wow, JJ! What is it that he's been wanting to do? I thought he was a paramedic. I sure hope that either it heals or the docs can fix it.

I should probably put a pad in the diaper bag. I thought about bringing my pads with me but decided that I could just buy some disposable ones if I needed them. Nothing has happened so far so I haven't had to. I've been feeling cramping off and on for a few months now and periodically getting lots of ewcf but not even a hint of







. I certainly won't be whatevering even though the last two doctors I've seen have told me that I have beautiful babies and should keep having more.









Carrie ~ I do remember you stressing about PL with Nora. What, exactly, did you do and how did it work? How long did it take? A few days or weeks of stressful potty training may be easier for the adults in the long run. I'll tell you, having to constantly clean a 4yo's butt was a major pita, literally.







That being said, I don't know how it might effect the LOs in the long run.

Dylan is now doing downward dog. Have any of you ever heard the old wive's tale about how, if a baby looks at you upside down through their legs, it means you are pregnant? He's got me paranoid even though I haven't dtd in over a year. He hasn't looked at me that way. Hehe

So, totally OT but weird. My brother came over on Saturday for his birthday dinner. His birthday was the 1st. Before he got here my mom told me not to talk about gay people. She said it makes him feel uncomfortable. Hmmm...he's only dated one girl once when he was in his 20s and that only lasted a few weeks. He's 45 now. I don't think he's ever had sex with a woman, probably not at all. I have wonder over the years if he's gay because of that and he's homophobic. She didn't say it like he's gay but it was such a strange, random thing to say without any context or anything. I mean, we weren't even talking. She just walked in the room and said it.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

He's trained as a paramedic. He was working for a company that did... ancillary kind of events- movie shoots, sporting events, our race track here, concerts, and then filling in for some of the northern communities for a few weeks at a time. It was kind of a stepping stone to the ultimate goal- which is getting on with either a rural municipality or our city paramedics.... but the company was super crooked, and he ended up quitting (kind of forced...) last summer. Since then he's tried a few times to get on with one of the rural or city jobs, but he hasn't been able to pass the fitness tests for it (he's in shape, but they require things like a sit and reach test...). So he's been working on his fitness while he went back to his old retail job. But now, if they can't fix his hand, then there's no way he'd pass the job portion of the fitness test now-- ironic, but... not very funny, you know? lol

LOL! If it were as easy as just having the beautiful babies! We... It depends who you talk to. I forsee us actively avoiding very heartily for the next 1.5-2 years, and then just avoiding, but not being as strict about it, and if we get pregnant again, then so be it. I feel like everytime we take a step forward with being adjusted to the demands of princess tenley, we then take two steps back. My heart wants more children- but when my brain stops to think about it, it sends panic through my body! I think it'll be awhile before I can get passed that.

And agreed-- that certainly is an odd comment to come with no prompting!


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeninejessica*
> 
> LOL! If it were as easy as just having the beautiful babies! We... It depends who you talk to. I forsee us actively avoiding very heartily for the next 1.5-2 years, and then just avoiding, but not being as strict about it, and if we get pregnant again, then so be it. I feel like everytime we take a step forward with being adjusted to the demands of princess tenley, we then take two steps back. My heart wants more children- but when my brain stops to think about it, it sends panic through my body! I think it'll be awhile before I can get passed that.


I know that feeling! Just a few short months ago, I felt like that! And then something changes. I can't explain it. But the thought of having another in a couple of years doesn't strike fear in my heart. Now my DH is a different story! Having Ava 5 nights out of the week is seriously wearing on his sanity. But it can't be avoided. If his job gets to the point where we can survive off one income, maybe I can quit but who knows?


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Oh, man! That really sucks about your dh's hand. I remember him sort of being forced to quit his old job but I thought he had gotten another paramedic's job. Darn! Retail...ugh! No wonder he's not happy with his work right now. That's why, as hard as it makes things for us, I would never tell my dh to get out of the Marine Corps. He loves doing it and would be miserable doing anything else but he would get out if I demanded it.

Princess Tenley!







Ryan's name means "little prince" and he sure does act like one.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Question: Would you put your 5yo in a highback booster with a car seatbelt for a short car ride if he meets the height and weight requirements even though he's small enough to still be in a harness?


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Question: Would you put your 5yo in a highback booster with a car seatbelt for a short car ride if he meets the height and weight requirements even though he's small enough to still be in a harness?


If they met the requirements and they wouldn't be so squirmy that the driver would be distracted looking back making sure they were seated properly the whole time, then yes, I would do it.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

yup ^^ It wouldn't be my choice long term, but if he fits the height/weight and as lauri said, "calmness" then I would feel comfortable with it for occasional trips.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

ok, thanks. the problem is that i took the seats out to w ash them but then messed up my back so i can't put kellen's back in yet. i may have to wait until dh gets back here this weekend. i was worried about not being able to transport him if needed. then it occurred to me that he meets the minimum requirements to use ethan's booster. hopefully, either we won't have to go anywhere or my back will get better fast. it was moving the seats around, taking the covers off and putting them back on that hurt my back in the first place.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Re: Whatevering - we are actively avoiding, but kind of with the mindset that accidents could happen. We want another, but would really wait until Norah is 2 and Gabe is 4.

MW - what an odd comment! We wonder about a cousin of mine . . . .he is in the AF though, and likely if he IS then he wouldn't say anything until he gets out, and he's a career airman. And yes, I would with carseat, for short trips.

Not much new here; just took a couple days off and so . . . yeah. I thought it was interesting when I posted a pic of Norah eating corn, one of DH's cousins (who is nice enough, but obviously does everything the ped says, without questioning it) chimed in with their ped says babies should have corn, honey,, or citrus before age 1. I get the honey, but told her honestly, there isn't good reason to avoid the other 2 without a family history of allergies, like anything, you just watch baby and see how they react. I hope she doesn't feel like I was jumping on her. I just couldn't imaginine a good reason for avoiding corn until age 1. oh well.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Hey - it's June ya'll! started a new thread . . .


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

MW - haven't seen you on? we are in June . . . hope all is well -


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> MW - haven't seen you on? we are in June . . . hope all is well -


Oops. I wasn't getting email notifications. I thought you were asking me to start a new thread so I did. Then I saw that you had started one already. You didn't link to it in this thread.


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