# Sexual Touch Between Siblings



## SheBear (Aug 19, 2003)

I know, provocative title, but I'm sure I'm not the first to deal with it....or rather, the first to need advice on *how* to deal with it!

Ds1 is 5.5. DD is 3.5. They have shared a room for nearly 2 years now. They have bunk beds--they've never shared an actual bed except a time or two when we've stayed in motels, etc.

Last night, I went out for a couple hours and dh put all the kids to bed. When I got home, they were in bed, but not asleep, so I went in to give kisses and hugs. DD was sitting on her bed and was not wearing her pajama pants.

I asked her why....turned out she'd taken them off and they got turned inside out and she couldn't get them straightened out. No big deal, I helped her with them, but for some reason I said, "Why'd you take them off, silly?" and she told me. Boy did she tell me!









Ds had apparently gotten down on her bed and told her to take them (and her panties) off and he touched her bottom. He confirmed her account of it. They both said bottom (and both know the difference between "bottom" and "vagina"). He of course really had no explanation for why he did it (I didn't expect him to really be able to articulate it, but it's one of those things you just have to ask, even if you know they can't answer, yk?); all he could answer was that he "wanted something fun to do."

I am absolutely certain that neither of them is being molested in any way. Absolutely certain of that. They do not spend time with ANYONE, relatives, caregivers, etc., without our (dh and my) constant direct supervision. We don't use babysitters except as a true emergency....the last time one occurred was over a year ago. They don't have sleepovers. We are very vigilant about this....my parents have been foster care providers since before I was born, and I was raised to understand how real and necessary this sort of vigilance is. Pretty much, we trust no one with our children's safety.

So, I can safely say that I do not believe this has anything to do with acting out abuse. IMO, it is simply (?) burgeoning awareness of sexuality, at least on ds1's part, and probably somewhat on both their parts.

I do not think that ds is/was perverted or evil or any such thing. I don't think it means he'll grow up to be anything other than a wonderful young man who wholly respects women, including his sister. The fact that he waited to do it until they were alone in the bedroom and he knew dh and I wouldn't see or hear it tells me that he already has an awareness, on some level, that it was inappropriate.

I just don't really know how to deal with it in the here-and-now, KWIM??

Do I brush it off? Do I ignore it completely? Do I address it nonchalantly, as if they were just playing a game but it needs to stop? Do I treat it as a major big deal and "nip it in the bud?" How do I strike the right balance?







:

Obviously, we are now considering that it may be time to put them in seperate bedrooms.....I really didn't want to do so this soon, because I think they receive comfort from each other's presence. But of course I knew eventually they would reach a point of development to need more privacy....I just didn't expect it to happen this quickly! I guess that's why my mom always says that your first child is always the "experimental" one, LOL!









We have in the past made a point to teach ds that as a boy/young man it is his job to protect and care for his sister and other girls, to make sure that no one mistreats them if he is able to intervene. I think this is an appropriate way to introduce to him the concept of his responsibility to respect women because he is/will be--at least in this society--in the position of generally greater power/strength/dominance....because as long as that dynamic holds, I want him to be vitally aware of the responsibility that such undeserved priviledge brings, if that makes sense.

We have also encouraged our dd to be caring and protective towards her brother(s), because we want to encourage a strong sibling bond and spirit of caring that goes both ways. So the protection thing is by no means one-sided.

We have always been careful to model the importance of privacy/modesty, even when they were infants. I do not ask or allow other people (other than dh and myself) to change their diapers, if one of us is there and capable of doing so. For example, when ds2 was a month old, I injured my back to the point I wasn't even able to lift him, and he was only about 11-12 lbs! A young girl from our church came to stay with us and help me for a few days. For diaper changes, she was more than capable, and willing, to do the whole job, but I would instead have her carry him to the table and bring me the supplies while I changed the diaper. I just see no reason for anyone other than dh or myself to do that particular job. Not even Grandma, no matter how much she asks and pouts when I don't let her!









As ds1 and dd have gotten older, we've gone from modeling to verbally enforcing that message....that our genitals are private, not to be touched or looked at by anyone other than ourselves (or mama and daddy if/when necessary). Apparently, we've not enforced that message enough.









So, what do the Wise Mamas advise?

I don't want to blow this out of proportion or make either of them feel ashamed--about their curiosity or their bodies--but I do want them to understand the importance of respecting--and not touching--each other's genitals. Or, not even just genitals--I want them to learn that it is not ever okay to touch anyone in a way that is not welcome and not respectful.

So, I guess my questions are:

--How/how much do I address the incident that has already occurred?

--Do I need to attempt to find out if this has happened before, or does it even matter?

--How do I better address the general issue of privacy, respect, and proper/improper touch?

--Is it time to move them into separate bedrooms? Is that a stupid question?

What else am I overlooking?

Thanks mamas! I am SOOOOOO glad to have you all to turn to in situations like this! Your advice to me is always invaluable!


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## abi&ben'smom (Oct 28, 2007)

We dealt with this, but not with siblings. My dd(5) and neighbor friend(4) were curious about each other's privates. We were all pretty dumbstruck as to what to do!! I just sat down with her privately and talked with her about how it is normal to be curious about other people's bodies (and her own) and that she isn't in any trouble, but we don't touch or look at other people's private areas. (unless you need help going potty, any problems, etc...) And our neighbors had the same talk with him. We kept our eyes on them for a couple of months because they still kept wanting to be alone. I don't know if we did or said the right things (I hadn't discovered MDC yet to ask!!!), so I'm wondering what your advice will be.


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

check out the book, Everything you never wanted your kids to know about sex but were afraid they'd ask.
It covers this very topic as very normal. It gives lots of ways to address these situations.


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## oliversmum2000 (Oct 10, 2003)

sorry i dont think i have any good advice, just empathy, i had a similar issue wih a neighbours child. i tried to be very calm and low key with the kids but obviously did not handle it well with the other childs parents (even though i tried only expressing concern for their dc no nger or accusation or rudeness) however i digress, i obviously did not do a good job as they are still not talking to me 6 months later.

so i am afraid i am not a good person to advise.

when dd was tiny ds2 (then 3) did have a bit of a poke around down there when i was mid nappy change once and went to grab a new nappy, i told him that was a priavte parts and that he was not allowed to touch her there and that he could hurt her as it was very sensitive, it seemed to qwork as he didnt do it again. but for a while i had to stop bathing them together as dd would try to grab at his private parts!


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## angela&avery (May 30, 2002)

Maybe you are over emphasizing how private genitals are? Making it taboo to look at, therefore causing extra curiosity. Just an idea. My kids are 6 and 4 and also boy/girl. They shared a room. From what I know, we havent had any touching, we are pretty open about our bodies, kids are often in underpants, half naked.. not the 6 year old anymore, and the 4 year old is learning modesty a little now, but we are pretty open. I walk naked from my room to the bathroom for my shower. I try to be very open and I dont cover if my kids walk in. The kids just started showering together because the 4 year old was afraid and the 6 year old wants to encourage her to take showers, plus they play together. They are very supervised and I havent noticed anything sexual or any genital interest whatsoever. I have told them both that their genitals are not for others to touch and I remind them once in a while when Im washing them or putting them to bed. I try to be very matter of fact so that there isnt an overemphasis.

Personally sometimes less is more. I would have very seriously said something like "you know what, we dont touch other peoples private body parts" and left it like that. I personally wouldnt seperate them because of this, my 4 and 6 year old boy/girl just got their own rooms and only bc we moved and now have an extra room. I would supervise them a bit more at bedtime, peek in every 5 minutes until they are sleeping. If its very quiet and they are playing alone together, peek in just to be sure. So add the extra supervision without making it a big deal to the kids.


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## SamuraiMom (Nov 7, 2006)

I have to agree with the above post, we have had to "address" this situation a few times. The main point being that we do not touch each other's vaginas or penis's and nor do we allow anyone to touch us there unless it mom or dad or Dr. If you wish to touch your own parts, than please do it when you are alone, not that we encourage them, but my DS went through a discovery period of rubbing his penis on various things, like his big sisters furry pocketbook, that was actually funny, but we had to tell him a few times, it's like other things you teach your kids, it take's repetition. DD/3 often asked why her pee pee was so soft, why she has one and why hers was different form her brothers. I've answered these questions a thousand times, see repetition! We did have an incident that involved their 7 year old cousin a few months ago where she removed dd/3' s diaper and touched her bum and then had ds touch her (the cousins) vagina. When I walked into the bedroom and caught her I tried so hard to remain calm, but I over reacted a bit and told her she could not be alone with them ever again, also something about her knowing better. She cried, I felt bad and explained to her the same things that I had been telling my little ones about not touching other peoples parts and so on. I was just surprised that a child her age didn't know better, but her family life is a topic for another thread. Again, I would agree that making it too taboo is not good, but understanding what is socially acceptable is important.
I just wanted to also add that I have always let the older girls change my kids diapers, it opens up a chance for dialogue, especially with the siblings of the cousin whe we had that issue with. One of their "things" is that they regard their bodies as gross, BFing is gross, penises are gross, so it has given me a chance to give them a different perspecitve on theirs and other bodies.


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## SheBear (Aug 19, 2003)

Thanks everyone for the responses! This thread got a lot more views than comments, so I'm guessing that maybe there are a lot of people out there who would like reassurance/advice on dealing with this appropriately!

I guess I should be glad this was just my children and not a neighbor!







Or worse, a cousin!







: At least i didn't have to deal with that sort of fallout!

Angela, thanks for your thoughts--that's a good perspective to consider. I don't _think_ that we make too much of an issue about privacy/modesty....dh and I are both modest people (him esp.!) but we do have plenty of naked time for babies and toddlers...well, up until they are fully potty trained, we figure clothes are mostly for warmth, not modesty!







I've just recently started feeling less comfortable if ds1 comes into the bathroom when I'm bathing or using the toilet. I've started to ask him to wait by the door at those times, but it's not a big deal, I don't freak out. Ds1 and dd took their baths together up until maybe 9 months ago...the main reason we stopped that was because of the mess they made!









They still see each other naked often enough--after their baths, while getting dressed, etc. So I really don't think we are making too big a deal about nakedness. It's certainly not a taboo. We are pretty matter-of-fact, while trying to teach them that it's better to wait until they are actually _in_ the bathroom before pulling their pants down, for example!







In fact, ds1 has just in the last couple months started making a big deal about wanting the door closed when he uses the bathroom, which I see as another indication that his awareness of his own sexuality is increasing.

They both know the specific parts of boy/girl anatomy, and they know the proper names of the parts.

I think the closer bedtime supervision is a great idea. That's actually what I've done the last couple nights, and it is easy enough to do because we have the bedroom next to theirs set up as a home office, and my sewing machine is in there. I've been working on projects the last couple nights, and so I've been able to monitor their bedtime more closely. Side benefit of that, they have fallen asleep more quickly, although that could be attributed more to the time change, I suppose!









I'm glad to know that I'm not the only mom who thinks it's fine, even beneficial for them to share a room at their ages. Everyone else I've talked to has shown only surprise that I had let them share this long!







In fact, I've had a few inlaws offer their totally unsolicited opinions on the issue, and it is quite frustrating.


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## SheBear (Aug 19, 2003)

I started posting before you did, SamuraiMom, and then I got distracted from my post, then came back and hit "submit" before I had a chance to read yours!









Thanks for the response! I agree with the points you made, although sometimes I secretly wonder if the repetition is not slowly driving me nuts!







: And at least, for now, most of the questions have happened when we were in a quiet place, rather than loudly and in public!







Although I'm sure I've just been lucky up til now--I prolly just jinxed myself!









As far as changing diapers, I don't mind a bit if the kids watch me change a diaper, and when they are big enough to do the job well, I won't have a problem delegating....I'm looking forward to it, in fact!









It's just the issue of people outside our immediate family changing their diapers that I'm strict about. And it may well be that I'm overly sensitive about that.







Obviously, if we need to leave our kids in someone else's care, we explain to them that so-and-so is going to take care of them just like we would, and that they should listen and follow the rules, and that it's okay for so-and-so to change their diapers or help them potty if they need help....basically telling them in words they understand that the caregiver is our proxy. Maybe that's overkill, but having grown up with a couple foster girls who where victims of long-term sexual abuse really affected my thinking about how to be proactive in empowering even very young children to protect themselves against predators, KWIM?

Anyway, thanks again for the great advice, and for the reassurance that this is nothing new!


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