# Healing the Gut in September



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Hi mamas..........
Happy September 1st! We have a new month and thread. Will this one make 50 pages?


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

It's likely. when will we get our own subforum???


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## member (Apr 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
It's likely. when will we get our own subforum???

I know! I really wish we had a sub forum.









Happy September, everyone! I love my birth month but the rain and leaves make mold and my allergies are going wonky.


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## krissi (Sep 24, 2004)

Quote:

It's likely. when will we get our own subforum???
Poking my head in to say that would be too cool. We do a lot of gut healing stuff in this family but I haven't posted in this thread before because it is way too hard to follow any discussion that is all combined into one reaaaally long thread!

But while I'm here, I'd love to hear any success stories for getting rid of yeast once and for all. DD has been on SCD for closing in on six months and gets no grains of any kind but we still had a super nasty yeast flareup earlier this week. I have to keep her on antifungals constantly to control it and that is probably not good for her liver. She has such a restricted diet as is. I suspect we'll have to take the plunge and start limiting fruit more, but then she'd be on a diet of only meat and veggies and she really loves fruit.







I've already had to cut pretty much everything else she really liked out and I hate that. She is allergic to nuts and beans and eggs so pretty much all SCD-legal foods except meat, fruits, and veggies are not an option.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *krissi*
Poking my head in to say that would be too cool. We do a lot of gut healing stuff in this family but I haven't posted in this thread before because it is way too hard to follow any discussion that is all combined into one reaaaally long thread!

But while I'm here, I'd love to hear any success stories for getting rid of yeast once and for all. DD has been on SCD for closing in on six months and gets no grains of any kind but we still had a super nasty yeast flareup earlier this week. I have to keep her on antifungals constantly to control it and that is probably not good for her liver. She has such a restricted diet as is. I suspect we'll have to take the plunge and start limiting fruit more, but then she'd be on a diet of only meat and veggies and she really loves fruit.







I've already had to cut pretty much everything else she really liked out and I hate that. She is allergic to nuts and beans and eggs so pretty much all SCD-legal foods except meat, fruits, and veggies are not an option.

Unfortunately fruits are very high in sugar even if it's legal. This feeds the yeast. My DD has very mild yeast issues but she gets a bad diaper rash if I give her more than one little bit of fruit a day. You could just try keeping low sugar fruis like berries and avocadoes. Avocados make great dessert.
Have you tried coconuts? Coconut milk, oil etc. You can make coconut milk jello with stevia. Definitely cut out juices. I know stevia is illegal but it's still the best sweetener if you can't do honey.
Sorry to say I haven't been able to get rid of yeast on SCD so I'm doing the yahoo group candida diet, which would be hard for kids without eggs.

Have you tried buckwheat? I know it's a complex carb and illegal. However, its gluten free and not really a grain... If you prepare it a la Nourishing Traditions, soaking it in yogurt or water and whey/lemon juice, and then make pancakes or something. This candida diet doesn't recommend it per se but it's the best option if you must cheat.

Are you giving her enzymes?


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## babygrant (Mar 10, 2005)

nak
i think i may need to do the SCD. TMI allert ahead. lately i've been having pains in my belly and feels like i need to go to the washroom really bad. well i try and go and the only thing that comes out is this clear goopy stuff that looks like egg whites. its coming from my bum. any ideas?


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

I, like many of you it seems, am doing SCD to try to help issues with my 3 month old ebf daughter. I had been on an elimination diet, so I already had a good feel for what set her off (massive yakking and screaming are usually how reactions show themselves). I'm now 2 weeks into SCD, and it is so tough to figure out what is causing what! Of course it doesn't help that I'm also starting new supplements and enzymes, but I think I get most frustrated because I'm not really judging my body's reaction, but hers, which is much more unpredictable. For instance, is that spit up because she gulped too much air while nursing or because of the grape juice I drank this morning? Sometimes it's absolutely clear (like the preSCD night after a glass of soy milk which will forever be etched in my memory), but other times it's so hard to know. I religiously keep a food journal and reactions log, but even with that it's hard. Ok, so enough whining. Here's my question - if it isn't necessarily time, per SCD, to start a food yet, but I know it doesn't cause a reaction in DD, can I go ahead with it? Or could it be causing harm that I just don't know about? For example, I'm still in the cooked fruits and vegetable stage (which is sooooo hard from a time perspective), but I know DD does fine with lettuce. So, can I go ahead and start salads or do I need to wait? I never thought I would yearn for lettuce so much!

Another question - at first, her stools were normal curried yogurt with the little seeds. The seeds went away and about a week later is when all the other bad stuff started happening. Could be coincidence, but I can't shake the notion that it's not. She only goes about 2 times a week, but that might be just because I'm eating so little that produces waste, plus it can be normal for ebf babies to only go once a week, or so I read. She did go more frequently when I started enzymes (I've backed off for a bit for my own sake), but other than that I can't see much linkage to what I'm doing and her stools. So, I feel very in the dark about how fast to proceed with SCD since most of that seems to be based on stools. If I don't have diarrhea and she's not yakking, are we good to move ahead or do I somehow need to get a better feel about her stools, too? Ahhh, this is all so hard. I'm very much a likes to follow a map person, and this is a route with no clear path directions, it seems. Thanks for all your help - I have learned so much from all of you!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *babygrant*
nak
i think i may need to do the SCD. TMI allert ahead. lately i've been having pains in my belly and feels like i need to go to the washroom really bad. well i try and go and the only thing that comes out is this clear goopy stuff that looks like egg whites. its coming from my bum. any ideas?

Yikes you poor thing, that's a new one, even for me! Do you have loose stools right now otherwise? What other symptoms? I think inflammation in general can create mucus production from a variety of causes.
http://ibscrohns.about.com/od/relate...mucusstool.htm


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## babygrant (Mar 10, 2005)

Well stool comes out as well but it's covered with the goopy stuff. I am on Synthroid for hypothyroid disease. Umm other symptoms....I can't tell I have to go to the bathroom until I REALLY need to go and can barely hold it. No diarrhea. Pressure in my bottom. That's about it.

Man, I'm glad that I don't know anyone IRL that comes on MDC and can read this


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Success story on yeast from someone I know IRL:

Quote:

I have done so much reading on this topic and still have not found
more than 2 sources that agree on any one "cause". Here's a read
that I can across during my hunt for truth in healing my daughter,
and all that it speaks of is exactly what we experienced. We tried
it ALL...except for (at that time) the fermented foods to feed good
flora. We did take probiotics but NOTHING worked until we started
eating kefir and kim chi. She can now eat anything with
no "symptoms"...this includes the occassional birthday party garbage
she eats. And since we've been eating the WP way she's only had 2
headaches and NO other symptoms...that's within 8 months, before
she'd get about 4 to 6 in a month and every symptom you can think
of...headaches, smelly feet, blisters in her mouth, dark circles
under the eyes, ezcema, constipation, caught infections
easily..colds/flu/pneumonia and on and on and on.....

Anywho here's the link to read

http://www.regaininghealthnaturally....on_Sense.shtml


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## krissi (Sep 24, 2004)

Quote:

Unfortunately fruits are very high in sugar even if it's legal. This feeds the yeast. My DD has very mild yeast issues but she gets a bad diaper rash if I give her more than one little bit of fruit a day. You could just try keeping low sugar fruis like berries and avocadoes. Avocados make great dessert.
Have you tried coconuts? Coconut milk, oil etc. You can make coconut milk jello with stevia. Definitely cut out juices. I know stevia is illegal but it's still the best sweetener if you can't do honey.
Sorry to say I haven't been able to get rid of yeast on SCD so I'm doing the yahoo group candida diet, which would be hard for kids without eggs.

Have you tried buckwheat? I know it's a complex carb and illegal. However, its gluten free and not really a grain... If you prepare it a la Nourishing Traditions, soaking it in yogurt or water and whey/lemon juice, and then make pancakes or something. This candida diet doesn't recommend it per se but it's the best option if you must cheat.

Are you giving her enzymes?
Sadly DD has what appears to be a severe case of leaky gut syndrome. She tested with 52 food sensitivities when we did IgE/IgG testing. All grains were high sensitivity including buckwheat...she is even IgG allergic to rice. She is moderately sensitive to coconut too. I have wondered about trying coconut because it wasn't a high sensitivity...I am hesitant to experiment much because we are always walking on thin ice with her gut and it seems like every little thing causes a setback. They're delayed response allergies too so it could be up to three days until we saw an impact from anything which makes it hard to trace. We saw major improvement when we cut out these 52 foods all at once, and then even more dramatic when we switched to SCD, so I know it's helping, but it leaves little left to work with.

I know that fruits are high in sugar but I just feel like I've taken so much away from her already. I may just have to limit it more. We already cut out juice a few months ago except for OJ once a week or so as a treat. (She looks forward to an Odwalla orange juice how most kids would look forward to ice cream!) She eats a lot of apples and bananas though. Avocadoes are already a mainstay and she gets a half of one for breakfast every morning and also following dinner. I hadn't thought of berries being lower in sugar...that's definitely a good point.

I feel like we're caught between a rock and a hard place because if I cut down on her fruit then I have to increase her meat and that can cause other problems. Or somehow cross my fingers and hope she's going to be willing to eat a whole bucket of broccoli and carrots each day. I think she's not getting enough calories as is. I'm trying to tend toward lower oxalates also and that makes it even more crazy.







:

We do enzymes...primarily Candex in the morning and evening and No Fenol in between meals (which also helped a lot with stool consistency). It hasn't helped much with keeping yeast away. Her yeast is all intestinal and manifests as behavioral symptoms. We can get rid of it with fluconazole but then it comes back at the drop of a hat.







I don't want to have her on fluconazole all the time in order to be able to function.

I guess I'm kind of rambling. I know we'll have to limit fruit more too but I'm just not sure how to pull that off yet. Anyone know of other good natural antifungals beside GSE? I think her yeast might have developed a tolerance to GSE. It isn't working as well as it used to. I am guessing I probably should be rotating antifungals but I don't know much about how that works.


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## krissi (Sep 24, 2004)

JaneS that is an interesting link...hmm...gives me some ideas. I haven't been able to successfully introduce yogurt yet. We _only_ have goat milk as an option for yogurt or kefir because of nuts/coconut/cow's milk allergies. I am wondering now if I should be serving the apples with a side of goat yogurt though and maybe encouraging her to dip them. She thinks dipping stuff is fun. Maybe that could counteract the yeasty effect of eating apples.

Maybe researching fermented veggies a little more might be good too. She loves cabbage salad and maybe some kind of fermented cabbage would be a hit.


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *krissi*
Maybe researching fermented veggies a little more might be good too. She loves cabbage salad and maybe some kind of fermented cabbage would be a hit.

My todder loves Kimchi (the Japanese fermented cabbage)


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

subbing. Just got through a couple of days with an infant pooping mucous and spitting up mucous so thick I had to remove it from his mouth. It started the day I tried clarified butter. Ugh. It may be a bug, but that would be a very strong coincidence.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Posted this on the other thread. Forgot it was a new month.

I think we are going to switch to the program on candidasupport. Really at this point it is such a small step from where we are that it is hardly noticable. I'm hopeful that it will fill in some gaps for us. Sadly it doesn't let us add back in a single food and makes us eliminate a couple more. If it works we will all be happier.

So I'm working on incresing my intake of fats. Never thought I would say that. I also didn't realize how difficult that can be! I need some ideas on how to get more CO into me w/o nuts, fruit, or dairy that doesn't include taking it straight. Increasing dd's fats is easy. I'm just feeding her pats of butter. She is thrilled. Guess I shouldn't have been fighting this in her. (she has craved butter for a long time).

I think that this program will be somewhat easier and cheaper. I'm not sure what to do about all the extra suppliments I have been taking. I think I'll keep them up untill the bottles run out.

Oh and I cured my fathers leg cramps while I was home. Got him taking magnesium and he is thrilled. This wasn't the first time I tried to convince him that magnesium was his problem but it was the first time it sank in. My mother however was hopeless. She just doesn't want to go through die off. In general they nit picked my parenting so much that I didn't want to start any deep conversations anyhow. This was one vacation that I wish I hadn't bothered taking. It was far more work than staying home would have been and no rest or relaxation. Silly me thinking my parents would be supportive of me at this time. I sure hope I can figure out how to overcome this programing and not do the same thing to my amazing DD. I don't want her to have to move half way across the country as an adult just to escape me and live her own life.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
subbing. Just got through a couple of days with an infant pooping mucous and spitting up mucous so thick I had to remove it from his mouth. It started the day I tried clarified butter. Ugh. It may be a bug, but that would be a very strong coincidence.









Poor little one.

It has taken me 2 months to figure out what people meant by 'subbing'








Duh


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Success story on yeast from someone I know IRL:

Ok Jane, I'm now more confused than ever.







: I want what that says to be true but I don't trust it. I feel terrible when I eat anything off this diet. Horrible stomach pains. I just don't know what to do anymore.







:


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Thanks, Jane, for the link. It really helped me in my confusion. It made sense to me. How does one deal with an acid pH? DS tested acid last time I tested him, whereas I am more in the middle.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Didn't Weston A. Price say that there is no validity to the acid/alkaline theory?
I'm confused now. Should I be eating fruit? And kefir? I couldn't tolerate it the first time I tried.


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## lllmomma (Sep 1, 2003)

Krissi,

Went through something sim w/dd. SCD did not work for her candida, and she also couldn't have eggs or dairy. We did a rare foods rotation diet where you only eat things you haven't eaten before and you do a 5-7 day rotation. I found that w/ dd's leaky gut that was the only way to prevent new allergies from forming. I did give her some grains, sprouted as mentioned before, quinoa, amaranth and millet. We did a week of very intensive meat and veggie and fats only then added in the fruits. Glycerin was the rec sweetener. I think the fruits were mango, kiwi, cherimoya, persimmons, ...I can't remember the rest. I also did nystatin (Dr. Cook's book on Candida) for her and ate lots of garlic myself as she was nursing.

Good luck!


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Sigh. Good news and terrible news.

Well on the good news front, I started my older DS on reuteri for his loose poops. The results are phenomonal!! He is a normal boy after all. I plan to keep both of us on the diet for a long time, is there any problem w/that nutritionally speaking?

And the awful news.

It looks like my 21m old has a rare genetic disorder, MPS.







We are very lucky though because it seems that he is on the very mild end of the spectrum. I'm thinking Schiele's or mild Hunter's. I'm going back and forth btw the two. His urine was sent out on Thursday to the U of Alabama to the top guy in the field to get more answers. We are seeing the geneticist on Wednesday, and the ENT on Thursday (to remove his adenoids and put ear tubes in). We are hoping to get this diagnosed ASAP so that he can start the enzyme therapy (once a week for life or until a cure).

On a side note, my lil' guy is much MUCH healthier than other MPS kids his age. I am attributing this 100% to his non-vax, non-crap (only SCD), and no antibiotic ever history. Because of all this, I know he is going to be okay.

Onwards to another journey.

Amy


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## Nathan1097 (Nov 20, 2001)

Hi all. I posted back in June about having illeitis. I was throwing up, middle distended, bad belly pain. I got morphine in the ER and lots of tests. Then admitted for MORE tests. The tests are still going on- CT scans, MRI's.... So last night almosto EXACTLY the same thing happened as when I went to the ER, only I didn't go in. (I live with my mom and I asked her to take me in- when I could move!- and she said "you were there a long time last time"







)

Anyway, it happened again last night. Has happened in years previous but not so close together. In fact, I think I had a couple more times like this between my ER visit and now. I get a stomach ache that gets a bit worse and a bit worse and eventually I end up all sweaty and chilled and curled up on the bathroom floor. I go from that to bare naked on the bathroom floor. Eventually I throw up several times and luckily this time I had diarrhea- usually I feel like everything is "stuck' and won't move which makes my heart rate soar and my belly even more distended. I didn'[t get to sleep until 6 a.m. Then I called the nurse because the clinic I go to is open Saturday mornings. She said I should've gone to the ER. And if my belly gets all distended again, to go. I'm on popsicles, flat pop, water and broth for now. I feel dehydrated and exhausted. If it was a certain food that does this, I'd avoid it.....


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Jane- I literally woke up this morning thinking about that link. I'm just sick trying to figure all of this out and wondering if all this effort is in the wrong direction.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

There is alot of validity to the acid alkaline theory. It is just almost never presented correctly. Your body has a very small range and doesn't vary it's pH level all that much. However it varies enough to cause problems. The way people usually talk about it is in terms of acid foods and alkaline foods. While foods will have one proerty or another, they will not necessarily push you in that direction. Lemons are very acidic, so much so that they will shock your bosy into alkalinity. So eating that particular acid fruit will not make you acidic.

Also different people metabolize things differently. This is somthing that I am just learning alot about. Meat supposedly makes your body acidic. That's not true for everyone. If you are a person who requires alot of fat and protein in your diet, meat will actually make you more alkaline. A person who can't handle (metabolically) much meat or fat will tend towards a more acidic body with the ingestion of meat. You most likely know you're type already (if you do better with a significant protein and fat source at every meal, or can go days without meat and feel fine on just veggies and fruits with some nuts and seeds) and knowing it you can actually test it. You can get inexpensive pH strips and take reading after eating different meals. I was very acidic and alkalinized after adding a large amount of meat and oil. I'm trying to get my friend who is a very different type than I am to do her readings as well. Problem is she'll NEVER eat meat to attempt it. But taking a reading will tell us regardless as she's been vegan for over 17 years. If she's eating her correct diet (which according to metabolic testing she is) she will be alkaline.

I think it has been dismissed as being invalid simply because everyone did react differently so it was a hard theory to put in a box if you weren't acknowledging people's individuality and specific needs. That's my take on it anyway.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Thanks firefairy, it helps. I still don't understand it though. I know Mercola is into metabolic typing while very much advocating protein/fat and low-carb, and WAPF is not. I tend to lean towards the WAPF view on most everything.
But also, the Bechamp "blood as the third element" theory is based on alkaline/acid balance, too. They talk about how these living units that are smaller than cells or "mycozymas" mutate according to the ph in the blood to form viruses, bacteria and eventually fungi.
I just don't know who to believe. I guess the proof of the pudding is eating it. I'll have to wait until I find what works for me and my kids.
But after reading that article, I'm scared now. I've been low-carbing for several months, and I'm afraid that after I get "cured" or I will think I'll be cured and go back to eating normal NT style the candida will come back with a vengeance. I don't want to eat low-carb forever!


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kundalini-Mama*
Sigh. Good news and terrible news.

Well on the good news front, I started my older DS on reuteri for his loose poops. The results are phenomonal!! He is a normal boy after all. I plan to keep both of us on the diet for a long time, is there any problem w/that nutritionally speaking?

And the awful news.

It looks like my 21m old has a rare genetic disorder, MPS.







We are very lucky though because it seems that he is on the very mild end of the spectrum. I'm thinking Schiele's or mild Hunter's. I'm going back and forth btw the two. His urine was sent out on Thursday to the U of Alabama to the top guy in the field to get more answers. We are seeing the geneticist on Wednesday, and the ENT on Thursday (to remove his adenoids and put ear tubes in). We are hoping to get this diagnosed ASAP so that he can start the enzyme therapy (once a week for life or until a cure).

On a side note, my lil' guy is much MUCH healthier than other MPS kids his age. I am attributing this 100% to his non-vax, non-crap (only SCD), and no antibiotic ever history. Because of all this, I know he is going to be okay.

Onwards to another journey.

Amy

I want to send love to your family. It is so true that when it rains, it pours.







s









I saw Reuteri in capsules by Natures Way at the store yesterday. I have a 25 month old. Should I use 1 capsule a day (sprinkle it in his smoothie/yogurt)? Or do I need to find a chidrens formula? I was using Primadophilious powder ofr him in the past.

Thank you,
Jennifer


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## txgal (Jul 16, 2003)

New here, hope someone can help. I posted this above, but someone suggested posting here too.

Dh was just diagnosed with Diverticulitis via a lower abdominal CT Scan. The doc says there is about 6 in. of intestines that are affected. He wants to do a colonoscopy in Oct., but told Dh that surgery is the only way to help him. We know enough to know that this may not be the case so wanted to try some dietary/supplement changes between now and the colonoscopy to try and improve things naturally. Any advice? Also other than not enough fiber what else causes diverticulitis? Dh eats more fiber than anyone I know, in fact we think the attack was brought on by eating too much. TIA


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Ok Jane, I'm now more confused than ever.







: I want what that says to be true but I don't trust it. I feel terrible when I eat anything off this diet. Horrible stomach pains. I just don't know what to do anymore.







:

Sounds like this feeling is going around







It DOES make sense (and now I recall reading smething similar at the beginning of my diet) that you need to feed the good bacteria too. The thing I read at first said eat some carbs every 4-5 days (essentially one day a week) to feed the good bacteria. I had forgotten that. My discouragement is that preior to antibiotics which produced headache, bloat, and white tongue, I felt great. Since starting anticandida; no more headache or bloat, but rash on eyelid, mild vaginal irritation, ear pain, and NO CHANGE in the tongue. I didnt have chronic health issues, and now I feel like Im creating them! And then every recommendation for healing contradicts the last







: I feel like alice in wonderland.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

[ My discouragement is that preior to antibiotics which produced headache, bloat, and white tongue, I felt great. Since starting anticandida; no more headache or bloat, but rash on eyelid, mild vaginal irritation, ear pain, and NO CHANGE in the tongue. I didnt have chronic health issues, and now I feel like Im creating them! And then every recommendation for healing contradicts the last







: I feel like alice in wonderland.[/QUOTE]

Small world- this is almost my case too.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *txgal*
New here, hope someone can help. I posted this above, but someone suggested posting here too.

Dh was just diagnosed with Diverticulitis via a lower abdominal CT Scan. The doc says there is about 6 in. of intestines that are affected. He wants to do a colonoscopy in Oct., but told Dh that surgery is the only way to help him. We know enough to know that this may not be the case so wanted to try some dietary/supplement changes between now and the colonoscopy to try and improve things naturally. Any advice? Also other than not enough fiber what else causes diverticulitis? Dh eats more fiber than anyone I know, in fact we think the attack was brought on by eating too much. TIA

AHHHH...poor guy...
fiber is NOT your friend. It encourages the growth of pathogenic bacteria/yeast besides causing malapsorption of nutrients.
Read the cheatsheet if you have time.
You could try to put him on a very high fat diet. Cut the sugar, grains, fiber. I think div. is caused by bacterial or yeast overgrowth. Right, Jane?









Lots of probiotics -good bacteria, cod liver oil to supply vitamins A and D and good fats.
Other good fats: butter, egg yolks, real lard, coconut oil, e.v. olive oil, raw full fat dairy if you can find it.
Protein: always eat with some fat: chicken with skin, fish with butter, etc.
Keep non-starchy veggies and low-sugar fruits. These will provide enough fiber. But don't overdo them.
The SCD diet might be of great help.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Jane- I literally woke up this morning thinking about that link. I'm just sick trying to figure all of this out and wondering if all this effort is in the wrong direction.

Tell me about it! I've been regrouping lately as well. She definitely made me see things differently. I keep thinking about DS' experiences with Biocidin: great at first, then regression. He had also been thru other herbal px'd by our previous dr. Maybe b/c other bad stuff just took up the empty place?

With respect to eating foods right now, it makes sense if the gut flora is currently messed up, just eating foods "off diet" .. whatever that diet may be ... is not going to work b/c it's feeding what bacterial flora is there. Right now I believe that just killing things doesn't work either. Without replacing a full range of gut flora. And kefir is the only thing with such a wide range in huge numbers.

I think also with respect to my DS and maybe other kids, is that they never had good gut flora balance to begin with. It's not like an adult on SCD which has a little bit left of good stuff to regrow. That's my theory on why it worked for me and not him. And of course I was stubborn for a while and *didn't* give up my kefir at first when I went SCD. Until I lost my taste for it and switched over to yogurt. But I was on my way to healing at that point. Makes you think, huh?

So... DS is starting kefir, wish us luck. We are also having our second appt with new DAN/AAEM doctor this week to review stool tests and I will request liver, RAST and amino testing.

General note for everyone:

*Don't ever stop enzymes with your child for stool testing,* things have been horrible for a month since we did that. Just finally getting back on track poop wise but sleeping is still a nightmare. I cannot believe how much of a difference they make for him.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*Amy!!!*
























I can't believe how much is being thrown at you this year.







:

Your little one is incredibly lucky to have you as his mama. Please keep us updated every step of the way... you know we are all behind you, sending our love and support.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Happy September. I've been working very hard and haven't been able to post much. I'll come up for air in October some time.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *babygrant*
nak
i think i may need to do the SCD. TMI allert ahead. lately i've been having pains in my belly and feels like i need to go to the washroom really bad. well i try and go and the only thing that comes out is this clear goopy stuff that looks like egg whites. its coming from my bum. any ideas?

Are you *sure* it's not coming from your vagina? It sounds like fertile cervical fluid.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

firefaery -- Did you report on your reading?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Success story on yeast from someone I know IRL:

I've been pondering this as well. My *gut* feeling about the anti-candida diet for these few weeks (at least for me and dd) has been to stay the course on what we're doing now (it's obviously working) and not to worry about eliminating certain fruits etc.

I'm continually frustrated by the different ideas about what the *right* anti-candida diet is. If there IS one that works, then why does everyone have a different idea about what it is?

At least the SCD is researched and proven.

Anyway, there was something about mercury in that article: If mercury is still in the body, it's pointless to try to eliminate candida because the gut flora will be messed up until the mercury is out. Paraphrasing here obviously but I've experienced the truth of this over the last couple of weeks. We're chelating dd and her poopies have been regular and formed ever since.







_This tells me chelation is working and is helping her gut!_

So . .. I'm not worried about anti-candida right now. We've got other fish to fry. I may have to tackle it later down the road though and I'll be saving that link to guide me. It's the first common-sense thing I've read about candida.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
Happy September. I've been working very hard and haven't been able to post much. I'll come up for air in October some time.

Are you *sure* it's not coming from your vagina? It sounds like fertile cervical fluid.

Was going to ask the same question! Sometimes it's hard to tell but if you know your fertile time, there won't be any question.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kundalini-Mama*
Sigh. Good news and terrible news.

Well on the good news front, I started my older DS on reuteri for his loose poops. The results are phenomonal!! He is a normal boy after all. I plan to keep both of us on the diet for a long time, is there any problem w/that nutritionally speaking?

And the awful news.

It looks like my 21m old has a rare genetic disorder, MPS.







We are very lucky though because it seems that he is on the very mild end of the spectrum. I'm thinking Schiele's or mild Hunter's. I'm going back and forth btw the two. His urine was sent out on Thursday to the U of Alabama to the top guy in the field to get more answers. We are seeing the geneticist on Wednesday, and the ENT on Thursday (to remove his adenoids and put ear tubes in). We are hoping to get this diagnosed ASAP so that he can start the enzyme therapy (once a week for life or until a cure).

On a side note, my lil' guy is much MUCH healthier than other MPS kids his age. I am attributing this 100% to his non-vax, non-crap (only SCD), and no antibiotic ever history. Because of all this, I know he is going to be okay.

Onwards to another journey.

Amy









Kundalini!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kundalini-Mama*
Sigh. Good news and terrible news.

Well on the good news front, I started my older DS on reuteri for his loose poops. The results are phenomonal!! He is a normal boy after all. I plan to keep both of us on the diet for a long time, is there any problem w/that nutritionally speaking?

Amy

Reuteri has been working wonders for dd1 too.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
There is alot of validity to the acid alkaline theory. It is just almost never presented correctly. Your body has a very small range and doesn't vary it's pH level all that much. However it varies enough to cause problems. The way people usually talk about it is in terms of acid foods and alkaline foods. While foods will have one proerty or another, they will not necessarily push you in that direction. Lemons are very acidic, so much so that they will shock your bosy into alkalinity. So eating that particular acid fruit will not make you acidic.

Also different people metabolize things differently. This is somthing that I am just learning alot about. Meat supposedly makes your body acidic. That's not true for everyone. If you are a person who requires alot of fat and protein in your diet, meat will actually make you more alkaline. A person who can't handle (metabolically) much meat or fat will tend towards a more acidic body with the ingestion of meat. You most likely know you're type already (if you do better with a significant protein and fat source at every meal, or can go days without meat and feel fine on just veggies and fruits with some nuts and seeds) and knowing it you can actually test it. You can get inexpensive pH strips and take reading after eating different meals. I was very acidic and alkalinized after adding a large amount of meat and oil. I'm trying to get my friend who is a very different type than I am to do her readings as well. Problem is she'll NEVER eat meat to attempt it. But taking a reading will tell us regardless as she's been vegan for over 17 years. If she's eating her correct diet (which according to metabolic testing she is) she will be alkaline.

I think it has been dismissed as being invalid simply because everyone did react differently so it was a hard theory to put in a box if you weren't acknowledging people's individuality and specific needs. That's my take on it anyway.

Right. And this is what's so frustrating about it. Each person *has* to be different. How could there possibly be a one-size-fits-all cure?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I actually didn't report on my reading as I am busily trying to process what I have heard. There were many points about foods. One of the major ones was that I am not eating enough grains. She said that I am doing him a disservice and he isn't getting everything he needs from me. It's so fascinating because you don't give any info (at least I don't) and she had no way of knowing that I am grain free. She said bananas are particularly bad for him and that cocoa would be great, but in the afternoon or evening. Again, fascinating. How many people do you know ONLY eat chocolate in the morning? I eliminated my raw cacao already because he seemed to be reactive. According to my reading I can put it back, just not in my morning smoothie.

There was alot discussed about my health and diet. She said that I need more grains, less fruit and more meat and fat...but not dairy. Coconut oil is the best for me and she did say that I could do sheep and goat yogurt, but I'd sooner die







I couldn't stand the smell when I gave it to ds. I have more healing to do. She also talked about my pituitary. Yikes. There was much discussion about probiotics (again, I don't tell her anything-I just ask her to read. The only thing I asked for was what my son is reacting to) and minerals. She recommended a supplement that I had never heard of. Again, still processing. I'll write more if anyone is interested...

As usual it was very worth it. Dh still thinks I'm a kook, but he can't argue with results and we've had plenty from her!


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## milkamama (May 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Success story on yeast from someone I know IRL:

janes thanks again for sharing your knowledge. the lack of variety found in scd along with ds2 allergies/intolerances (which have made scd meat, veggie and fruit for us) have left dh and i debating our path forward for ds. this article makes me rethink the whole 'completely grain free' theories (esp. since ds does tolerate amaranth, quinoa, millet and buckwheat on a rotational basis). yet, i must confess that upon reading btvc, i was convinced that scd way THE way to go.

it is soooo confusing and difficult to watch a child suffer...want to heal them...want to do the right thing.


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## milkamama (May 14, 2005)

a bit off topic
our goat yoghurt was not too successful. it was quite diffcult to get ds to eat any of it...even disguised. then our frig went yesterday, so i guess it just was not meant to be. i have orderd some kefir grains and hope to try making some water kefir to add to fruit/veggie smoothies. and plan on starting to culture some veggies. i am all ears if anyone has a good link for cultured/fermented veggies or any advice. i am pretty sure ds cannot handle cow's milk...even raw.


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## milkamama (May 14, 2005)

Kundalini-Mama said:


> Sigh. Good news and terrible news.
> 
> oh mama, hugs to you. so sorry to hear such news....glad ds's diagnosis has begun and you are not totally in the gray world of it could be this, could be that. as a pp said...he is lucky to have you.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Amy-BIG hugs to you and your family. God must have a plan for you to throw so much your way. Your kids are so lucky to have you as a momma!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *milkamama*
janes thanks again for sharing your knowledge. the lack of variety found in scd along with ds2 allergies/intolerances (which have made scd meat, veggie and fruit for us) have left dh and i debating our path forward for ds. this article makes me rethink the whole 'completely grain free' theories (esp. since ds does tolerate amaranth, quinoa, millet and buckwheat on a rotational basis). yet, i must confess that upon reading btvc, i was convinced that scd way THE way to go.

it is soooo confusing and difficult to watch a child suffer...want to heal them...want to do the right thing.

THis is just MO, but I do believe that the SCD will help your ds. It helped my dd immensely. I think the disillusionment here about the SCD relates to candida issues only.

I wouldn't let this one article sway you away from trying the SCD.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Oh, Amy,







to you. Your name change is cool -- what prompted it?

Nathan1097, sorry to hear you have been so ill. Have you been on the SCD the whole time since your last incident?

ff, was the reading from your medical intuitive?

Jane, what kind of kefir will you be giving ds? Goat milk kefir? Water kefir?


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Firefaery-very interesting about your reading, cuts out all the guessing that we do constantly. What kind of reading was it, what is her speciality?

Jane-Don't know what to make of the article







. Goes back to 'everything in moderation.' Thank you for keeping us well supplied with food for thought. I am going to stay the course on SCD for now (sans dairy, sugary fruit.) I am healing slowly, I have let go of the idea that Ds's eczema is going to go away if I just find the foods that are bothering him and am focusing on just getting our guts healed. I have to let go of the guilt I feel for being the cause of his problems and know that I am doing all I can with nutrition.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I actually use two people...the one I mentioned does everything. I have one that does more of the medical stuff as well. I just couldn't take the guesswork anymore.


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

I am trying to address my probiotic intake in a rigorous way. I have been taking *only* cabbage rejuvelac and some fermented food with meals, b/c all probiotics Ive found in a jar contain no-no anticandida stuff. But now I am thinking a little rice starch may not matter in the bog picture.

~What do you all think of non-refrigerated hfs pro-b's? Obviously garden of life (which I am not considering) is non refrigerated, but there are others.

~What if anything have you heard about lactobacillus LGG? Ive read that it implants the best. It is sold through Culturelle (any knowledge here?) and is non-refrigerated.

fwiw, the people I know IRL who have treated candida did so on a much less strict diet than Bee's







:







: I dont know what to do. Im tentatively planing to go see an ND one of these people recommends, but I fear they will tell me everything different, and then what!







:

Firefairy - that is very interesting!


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## april2462 (May 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *milkamama*
our goat yoghurt was not too successful. it was quite diffcult to get ds to eat any of it...even disguised.

Aaaah, I feel so much the same!
Goat milk is the only raw unpasteurized milk I've been able to find, and my family totally rejected it as oatmeal or hot cereal topping (I don't even think about serving it straight they were so disgusted, and my dh was grossed out). The first batch of yoghurt was very runny and rejected by all, but I ate it. The second batch failed completely, possibly a temperature thing. My questions are for the goat milk experts - I know this ground has been covered before but I can't find it. Is there a link to the best process for fool-proof goat yoghurt, and what is the best drip method? I know it will always start out runny, but I need to drip off a bit of the watery wheyness.
My dripping though a linen-lined colander seems so messy and wasteful, though.
Thanks!


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

I'll bite









When you drip the yogurt, you will be losing the whey, which has a lot of the probiotics in it. Why are you dripping it anyway? I missed that.

The only way we can eat the yogurt is w/cooked berries and added honey to it. It is not palatable any other way. (Except as cheesecake







, but that has no nutritional value







)

I warm my raw goat milk to 110 degrees. Add the starter. Put in mason jars and close them. Place on my army wool blanket. Place heating pad on top, I'm putting it on high as it is getting colder. Wrap in the wool blanket and I wrap another fleece blanket on top & around as well. Let sit 24 hrs. Put in fridge and eat in a couple of hrs.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

WHOA firefaery.







I can see why you're still processing. Grains? My diet is only about 70-80% raw so I would probably help the cause by eating sourdough pancakes then maybe a homemade pizza and some sourdough cornbread and call it health food. Are you going to cook or eat a lot of sprouts?

Have you had a reading lately from the medical intuit?


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

What is Bee's diet? Meat and vegetables? FTR, I basically treated my candida with a 9-month diet like that. No fancy supplements. Occasional antifungals when I remembered. I did add homemade yogurt about two months in and then kefir about six months in.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Gale Force...I feel raw slipping away. Everytime I think I'm doing the right thing-sheesh. I have no idea what to do about grains. We still need to be gluten free. Oats come up high for me, but obviously I need a reliable source. Brown rice was good too. I need to figure out ways to get these into my diet. I do have meat back in, I guess that's just not a battle I'm gonna win no matter how hard I try.

Nightshade veggies are out too and that's a big problem for me. I can't have mushrooms either.

The reading from the medical intuitive was what made me do this. IT's kind of like a back up, or second opinion in some ways. The medical intuitive said he was having food sensitivity issues and let me know what was affected and where. She also told me some of the major offenders. She did some work on him and relaxed the spasms a bit. Then I figure in for a penny in for a buck and called the other one (they don't know each other at all to my knowledge) for verification. SHe gave a very similar reading and was pretty identical with the foods. The difference was mainly the cocoa. The med.intuitive said to avoid it, that it's problematic. The other told me it was okay, just not in the am. Since that's the only time I do it, this was interesting.

I eat a ton of sprouts. Are you referring specifically to grains? I don't sprout grains at all-except buckwheat, and that's not technically a grain. I was told to back off the sprouts a bit. Not completely, just cut back.

Any ideas for GFCF traditionally prepared grainy goodness?







I could use the help!


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## krissi (Sep 24, 2004)

Quote:

THis is just MO, but I do believe that the SCD will help your ds. It helped my dd immensely. I think the disillusionment here about the SCD relates to candida issues only.

I wouldn't let this one article sway you away from trying the SCD.
This is definitely true for us. I am not going to abandon the SCD for DD because it has been hands down by far the most beneficial intervention or therapy of any kind. It isn't getting rid of the yeast, but it is doing DD buckets of good in other ways. She had remarkable gains within a month of trying it. I would definitely give it a try if nothing else.


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## flowmom (Feb 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Any ideas for GFCF traditionally prepared grainy goodness?

I love quinoa tabbouleh. I usually use cooked quinoa but once I tried raw sprouted quinoa in tabbouleh (raw cookbook recipe). What a disaster! - it messed up my normally unnoticeable digestive sytem. I will never eat uncooked sprouted grains again. Next time I will do the same thing but cook the sprouted quinoa. Sprouting the quinoa was really easy (soaked overnight).

Also, sprouted quinoa in quinoa croquettes would be good. Just mix together mashed potatoes, quinoa, an egg, Indian-ish spices then bake on well-greased pan for about an hour. Serve with chutney - yum.

I normally find millet too mushy for dinner foods but it makes a nice cooked breakfast cereal.


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## TopazBlueMama (Nov 23, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Gale Force...I feel raw slipping away. Everytime I think I'm doing the right thing-sheesh. I have no idea what to do about grains. We still need to be gluten free. Oats come up high for me, but obviously I need a reliable source. Brown rice was good too. I need to figure out ways to get these into my diet. I do have meat back in, I guess that's just not a battle I'm gonna win no matter how hard I try.









Wow. That is fascinating everything she told you. How interesting! omg, and everything I've read says grains, grains, grains for breastfeeding moms! Report if you ever eat oatmeal and rice or others and tell us if you notice a difference in your babe or milk supply!


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

I just answered a PM about my diet, so I thought I'd post the guts of it here:

The diet turned me into a monster for about two months. By the end of three months the "symptoms" were gone and I started feeling better, but die-off still hit me in waves after that.

At the time I had pretty severe PPD with OCD. I didn't research the diet thoroughly, so I was not aware of all of the conflicting info. My chiro told me to wean Frederick at 18 months and do a detox through her or to go on this diet. I went on the diet and never looked back. At the time it did not occur to me that there was another option -- do nothing and put up with the ductal yeast and other signs. I saw it as "do the diet or wean this child." I set out on a very comulsive diet path. It worked. I can't be strict on a diet now to save my life because I just don't have the level of obsession that I had before.

Kefir was a very big help for me as was the yogurt.

Somewhere long the way with the deit I realized that I looked better than I'd looked in a long time and that I was feeling better. We began to move at about the nine month point and I got sloppy with the diet. On occasion I had nipple thrush after that but it would go away by itself in a day or two. I'm 3 1/2 years out from starting the diet now and have had no signs of yeast for about a year.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

firefaery,

Yes, I was wondering if you would add grains and stay raw by sprouting grains. I need to familiarize myself with the GF grains. I don't eat much grain in the first place and am not GF, so I can never remember the list.

Amanda


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

I also had a reading from the same person that firefaery used. Interesting, to say the least.









Let me preface all this by saying I do not have a candida problem. I know that is what many of you are battling, so don't know how much any of this is of interest, but just thought I would share nonetheless.

First thing, I am slightly acid and need to alkalize. (and acccording to bloodwork I had done this spring, this is true.) Also, there are a number of foods that I have been eating that according to her are not good for me. Cows milk is not good, but buffalo is. Honey no good







, but maple syrup ok, as is agave necter. Beef not good for me, but buffalo, again, is. Eggs every day is not good, but every other day is. Cheese, absolutely not. Grains, also not good. (and I am breastfeeding, although we did not discuss that.) I did ask about eating raw, because that is what I am really drawn too right now, but she said not to go completely, and it might be better, at least for now, to slightly steam things. Sigh. She recommended some enzymes and probiotics (Digest Gold and Primal Defense, as well as BioK), which are not the brands I have been doing. Interesting, since I wasn't sure that the Houstons I am taking are really working for me. She recommends colonics for me and CST for my kids.

Oh, and the source of all my problems? The short answer is stress. Course, that doesn't hugely surprise me. If I don't get this under control, it could turn into something like IBS. Thankfully, it does seem to be _slightly_ better of late. Still have a ways to go, but progress is progress.


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## treehugginhippie (Nov 29, 2004)

Great info here!







:

I've been doing a SCD for about a month. Dd and I still have candida issues. From what I've been reading here we may need to cut back on the fruit. I'm also thinking about adding soaked grains (ie-brown rice, quinoa, millet are the best I think??) and beans back into our diet. I'm taking enzymes and probiotics but I think I need to be more on track with taking them.


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## babygrant (Mar 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Was going to ask the same question! Sometimes it's hard to tell but if you know your fertile time, there won't be any question.

Nope, I know it was coming from my bum area. BUT I am having fertile CM too, so maybe it just got moved back there with my undies? I dunno. Never thought about that.


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## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

Subbing







:


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## fullofgrace (Nov 26, 2002)

I'm subbing so I can







and







:.

_My 'gut' background:_ I have Fibromyalgia with IBS (diagnosed in 2000) and I'm sick of feeling sick all the time. I'm sick of being in pain. I'm sick of getting two bites of food into my mouth and already feeling the urge to get to the bathroom (in many cases that's how I've discovered some of my food triggers, but when it's a casserole or something, it's hard to pinpoint which specific food). I'm sick of feeling bloated and crampy whether it's PMS-time or not. I'm sick of always feeling I need to go, and even when I do, having it hurt all the way down.

And finally. Finally. I am ready to really do something about it.

I have Karen DeFelice's book (Enzymes for Autism and Other Neurological Conditions, which just rocks!), since I was looking into Enzymes for my DDs (and possibly DS down the line). I think I will be ordering No-Fenol, ZymePrime, and Peptizyde, and while I wait for them, I'm going to take the plunge and start the SCD diet, at least for myself. I checked out an SCD Foods List and realized I have a lot to give up, but I do have a lot that I get to keep (Like some cheeses. I love cheese). I already avoid some of the 'allowed' foods, though, as they are known food triggers for me.

I'm going to wait for a long weekend or vacation I think before trying anything new with the girls (Enzymes I mean). They are doing well so far, and I'm afraid to tip the scales in the wrong direction without having plenty of time to just hold tight and ride the wave. KWIM? But the diet I will be able to implement sooner rather than later.

Anyway, I'm glad to be here and will be following along with great interest.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
THis is just MO, but I do believe that the SCD will help your ds. It helped my dd immensely. I think the disillusionment here about the SCD relates to candida issues only.

I wouldn't let this one article sway you away from trying the SCD.











SCD works wonderfully for my DD even with yeast. It doesn't work for me, but it does for her. I don't know why, maybe her yeast is mild and mine is systemic (and has been here for more than 10 years.)


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Anyone tried Goji Juice? It's supposed to help w/digestion, acne, cancer, aids the body during chelation.

I'm going to get some and add this to our ever-growing repetoire. . .


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I use goji juice in my smoothies. It's yummy, but my kids just munch on the berries all day long.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
Jane, what kind of kefir will you be giving ds? Goat milk kefir? Water kefir?

Raw goat's milk. I'm considering water kefir made with juice but still not sure of that b/c I pulled all juices ex. lemon a long time ago. Maybe with pear juice... hmmm. He doesn't do well on fructose is the issue. Pears are low in fructose.

And I don't think he'd drink "hooch" (Amanda's version of super vinegary water kefir). Speaking of that A., how do you get your DS to drink that stuff and which one??


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *krissi*
This is definitely true for us. I am not going to abandon the SCD for DD because it has been hands down by far the most beneficial intervention or therapy of any kind. It isn't getting rid of the yeast, but it is doing DD buckets of good in other ways. She had remarkable gains within a month of trying it. I would definitely give it a try if nothing else.









I would say this too. It is at least worth a try. It's easier than a strict candida diet for kids too. For us, we are keeping SCD foods for a while b/c I do have a basic diet for DS which he does stabilize on, it's just very hard to keep him on it.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

For the person who asked about "bottled" probiotics: Nature's Way Reuteri is serving us very well right now. DS's poops finally firm up with this and I highly recommend it for anyone with diarrhea.

Random Update on Me:

Coffee is NOT good, not good at all!! My stomach felt so horrible yesterday after having it.









But today I forgot my enzymes when I ate some yummy (traditional sprouted) French Meadow Cinnamon Raisin bread and no reactions whatsoever.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Welcome Fullofgrace!









Will you try enzymes for yourself? The high proteases between meals are supposed to be very good for Fibromyalgia.

Go very slowly with your littles, it took a while for my guy not to be hyperactive on them.

Great SCD list! TY


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *milkamama*
yet, i must confess that upon reading btvc, i was convinced that scd way THE way to go.

it is soooo confusing and difficult to watch a child suffer...want to heal them...want to do the right thing.

Oh yes, welcome to this crazy state of constant questioning!







:

BTVC does make sense and has been clinically proven to work. But I think the fact that it was on adults may make a difference too? Who knows. But along this path at least I feel like I'm further along than when I started with DS. I've certainly learned a lot and in many ways he is doing wonderfully. I never should have weaned him though...







(didn't do that for SCD but it just worked out that way)


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

FF,

Yes do write more when you are ready! I'm very interested in all of this.









Raw cacao is very high in magnesium right? maybe that is why the rec for evening?


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## milkamama (May 14, 2005)

happy labor day
quick question for you all...with a bit of background

ds1 (3 yo) who is very healthy and has shown no evidence of gut issues/allergies (with the exception of a milk intolerance that he outgrew), caught what i thought was a little bug two thursdays ago. he had a slight fever and diarrhea for a whole day...complained of belly pains. he woke the next day feeling much better...eating and drinking normally, BUT has complained of belly pains since and has had loose (very loose sometimes), stinky bm's since (some days four or five bms). i have been alternating him on NOW brand 8 billion acidolphilus & bifidus, JARROW baby's jarro-dophilus and a blend from custom probiotics (purchased for ds2 and i) starting the day he got sick. there is on occasion what appears to be mucus in the bm. any thoughts...advice is greatly appreciated.

other than the pains in the belly which only happen right before a bm or during, he seems absolutely fine.

thanks


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## milkamama (May 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
THis is just MO, but I do believe that the SCD will help your ds. It helped my dd immensely. I think the disillusionment here about the SCD relates to candida issues only.

I wouldn't let this one article sway you away from trying the SCD.

i totally appreciate your opinion...
i do believe that btvc and scd have a great deal to offer...ds is sooo intolerant of sooo many things that he isn't eating enough or hardly gaining. at this point i just feel like some quinoa maybe some buckwheat every few days might be ok for him. we've be on scd all summer and he has gained a mere 7oz. since i am still bfing, we are both on fruit, meat and veggies...way tough with a 20 mth old who is just 20 lbs. it is just difficult to know what the right thing to do is...where's my crystal ball when i need it?

any way...i have not totally abandoned scd...i've just modified it a bit for us. ds had quinoa yesterday with breakfast and dinner and seems (so far at least) to have done ok (no crying, belly pain, constipation, skin break-outs). there are sooo many scd illegals that he can't have anyway. a while back someone mentioned feeling like a mad scientist...yeah...me too!!


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## milkamama (May 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Oh yes, welcome to this crazy state of constant questioning!







:

BTVC does make sense and has been clinically proven to work. But I think the fact that it was on adults may make a difference too? Who knows. But along this path at least I feel like I'm further along than when I started with DS. I've certainly learned a lot and in many ways he is doing wonderfully. I never should have weaned him though...







(didn't do that for SCD but it just worked out that way)

i hear you on the weaning...we didn't wean, but sometimes the frustration and guilt i feel when i nurse ds and he starts itching or having belly problems stinks!! i know that bm is the best for him...

thanks for the welcome...i've been in this state for some time now...


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
I use goji juice in my smoothies. It's yummy, but my kids just munch on the berries all day long.

oooh, I didn't know you could get the berries. Where do you get them from?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Nature's First Law or eat raw... www.eatraw.com www.rawfood.com


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## Mom2baldie (Oct 29, 2002)

hi everyone,

My son is 8.5 and sees a DAN (defeat autism now) Dr. for autistic symptoms, adhd, processing issues... His latest stool sample results showed that he is very high in yeast and the Dr. recommended him taking a product called Candicid without talking at all about nutritional changes. Has anyone ever used this before? Does anyone have any thoughts on doing something like this instead of drastically changing the diet? He is a BIG fruit eater and I would hate to take this away from him...

I would very much appreciate any opinions on this! I am very overwhelmed trying to sort through his issues and all the info that goes along with them.

Lynsey


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
For the person who asked about "bottled" probiotics: Nature's Way Reuteri is serving us very well right now.

My ds is 2 and 28 pounds. Should I break open a capsule and put it into his goat yogurt? (Also, is one capsule too much? Not enough?)

THANKS!!








Jennifer


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Nature's First Law or eat raw... www.eatraw.com www.rawfood.com

About the juice. FF, have you studied the best place to get it in terms of authenticity and price? I'm reading all these things about making sure it's from the *real* berries. How do you know? I don't want to waste my $ yk?


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## fullofgrace (Nov 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Welcome Fullofgrace!








Will you try enzymes for yourself? The high proteases between meals are supposed to be very good for Fibromyalgia.
Go very slowly with your littles, it took a while for my guy not to be hyperactive on them.
Great SCD list! TY

Oooh thanks for that bit of info about proteases and Fibro. I had been planning on ordering them today, but now I'm even more motivated to try them.









That's good to know about the potential for hyperactivity, too. DD#2, who we already know has major behavioral triggers from dairy, already has issues in that area, so I will be very careful to go super slow with her. Thanks!


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## fullofgrace (Nov 26, 2002)

I just ordered the enzymes. I decided I only wanted to pay shipping once, so I ordered the chewables for the girls at the same time. $$$, but it's going to be worth it. I just know it.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newcastlemama*
My ds is 2 and 28 pounds. Should I break open a capsule and put it into his goat yogurt? (Also, is one capsule too much? Not enough?)

That should work, but I cannot tell you how much he will need or not...


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mom2baldie*
hi everyone,

My son is 8.5 and sees a DAN (defeat autism now) Dr. for autistic symptoms, adhd, processing issues... His latest stool sample results showed that he is very high in yeast and the Dr. recommended him taking a product called Candicid without talking at all about nutritional changes. Has anyone ever used this before? Does anyone have any thoughts on doing something like this instead of drastically changing the diet? He is a BIG fruit eater and I would hate to take this away from him...

I would very much appreciate any opinions on this! I am very overwhelmed trying to sort through his issues and all the info that goes along with them.

Lynsey

Welcome









Well all DAN doctors do practice differently. Did you just start seeing them? Are you going GFCF? What else is in your plan?

Wow, that Candicid looks powerful, lots of stuff in there...

The thing with yeast is that if your gut is not digesting any carb food properly, the yeast will feed on it. Maybe if the yeast isn't too bad, some kind of killer plus probiotic will help some people. But it doesn't do it for many. Are you using probiotics? With ASD kids it often comes hand in hand with metal problems, usually mercury b/c that kills off the good bacteria in the gut.

It's so hard to say what will work for each individual. I will tell you though that I think Karen DeFelice's book is a must read: www.enzymestuff.com

Enzymes with any yeast killer will help it work better at the very least. See Yeast/Bacteria link on her site.

Also the Autism Mercury Yahoo group is fantastic for real life advice, these parents have been through it all.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *milkamama*
happy labor day
quick question for you all...with a bit of background

ds1 (3 yo) who is very healthy and has shown no evidence of gut issues/allergies (with the exception of a milk intolerance that he outgrew), caught what i thought was a little bug two thursdays ago. he had a slight fever and diarrhea for a whole day...complained of belly pains. he woke the next day feeling much better...eating and drinking normally, BUT has complained of belly pains since and has had loose (very loose sometimes), stinky bm's since (some days four or five bms). i have been alternating him on NOW brand 8 billion acidolphilus & bifidus, JARROW baby's jarro-dophilus and a blend from custom probiotics (purchased for ds2 and i) starting the day he got sick. there is on occasion what appears to be mucus in the bm. any thoughts...advice is greatly appreciated.

other than the pains in the belly which only happen right before a bm or during, he seems absolutely fine.

thanks

Probably just a virus, might just take a while for the good bacteria to regrow. I would up the Vitamin C and Vitamin A (high vit. cod liver oil) and take away sugar and juice for a while.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

DS will be going in for several sessions of intradermal allergy testing in next few weeks. Both food and environmental. And blood tests too. Wish us luck, he's never been stuck with a needle since birth!









His CDSA was pretty normal except for the EPX, a marker of inflammation was in the red. And of course the previous bacterial testing which we didn't repeat. The Putrefactive SCFA's were slightly high but just yellow range not red. Same with another toxin Beta Glucuronidase. Both of those are correlated with bacterial overgrowth.

No mucus. No blood. His Pancreatic Elastase protein digesting enzyme was super high (that is good). I'm knocked over with a feather that there were no meat fibers and rare vegetable fibers. (And he was off enzymes for a week beforehand.)

No yeast, I sneaked that on in there again. Why on earth does raw fruit send his poops to mush then??







:

Why has he been a nightmare since going off enzymes for testing?









It's a good thing this child is so cute.








:


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Jane-good luck with the testing, hopefully there will be some results that give a clue to what is going on inside the little guy.

I had a rough weekend of cheating and I feel horribly guilty (only mildly bloated. )My Dad was in town and I swear he was sabotaging my diet by bringing all my favorite sweets into the house and leaving them out on the counter. I want to get to the point where I not only don't crave bad things but to where I can look at them and not want them and still watch other people eating them. I feel like a bad mom because after 2+ months I still cannot control myself around food.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Jane-poor little man! I'm so sorry that you are still chasing things. Love your new sig. by the way.

Ds is still having mucousy poo. I hate it. He's not super gassy anymore. The lack of seediness in it weirds me out. I'm trying a new probiotic after much research. Dear god I hope it helps. My diet has been great. I find it so easy to do the SCD after having done it for so long. I feel good on it and it requires almonst no effort. I do sneak one things in every now and again which is the cacao. I just had it again for the first time today when I made raw brownies. We'll see if the reading was right!


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## Mom2baldie (Oct 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Welcome









Well all DAN doctors do practice differently. Did you just start seeing them? Are you going GFCF? What else is in your plan?

Wow, that Candicid looks powerful, lots of stuff in there...

The thing with yeast is that if your gut is not digesting any carb food properly, the yeast will feed on it. Maybe if the yeast isn't too bad, some kind of killer plus probiotic will help some people. But it doesn't do it for many. Are you using probiotics? With ASD kids it often comes hand in hand with metal problems, usually mercury b/c that kills off the good bacteria in the gut.

It's so hard to say what will work for each individual. I will tell you though that I think Karen DeFelice's book is a must read: www.enzymestuff.com

Enzymes with any yeast killer will help it work better at the very least. See Yeast/Bacteria link on her site.

Also the Autism Mercury Yahoo group is fantastic for real life advice, these parents have been through it all.

Thanks for your response Jane.

To answer your questions, we have been seeing this Dr. for several months now, but we just completed all the testing she ordered for my son.

We found that he has a number of food allergies. Soy, dairy, corn, egg, pork and wheat being a few of them. Soy was the most severe according to their testing, but I really have my doubts about how reliable it is... Anyways, after that part of the testing was complete I was given a prescription for allergy shots to give him twice a week because they said that I wouldn't be able to cut all of those foods out of his diet.

He is also low in B vitamins, has low glutathione (which a lotion was prescribed for) and has an intestinal parasite called dientamoeba fragilis trophs that was found in moderate amounts in his stool, in addition to the yeast overgrowth. He has not been tested for heavy metal poisoning.

I have been reading about the GFCF diet and would like to try this, but am unsure of how well it will work considering that I won't have the support of my husband or my mom (my only other family). My mom is horrible about feeding my children junk, she wouldn't handle us being on a special diet very well at all.







I did join a yahoo group for gfcf recipes/families and looking at many of the recipes I saw that most of them have foods he has an allergy to, so I am not sure what to do about that.

Yes, he does take probiotics everyday, but he is still low in beneficial bacteria. I am not sure if what I am giving him is the best product or not though. His Dr. recommended something called "Ultra Flora DF" that comes in capsule form.

Thank you for the book and support group recommendations. I am just so overwhelmed. The 1st time someone mentioned autism to me was when he was around 2, the 1st time I took him to be evaluated he was 3 and the woman tried to write me a prescription for a ritalin-type drug. She said to me "If he had another illness you would give him medication right? It is the same thing. He is sick and he needs medicine."

I never took their prescriptions, but I did give him antibiotics for his endless ear infections and dutifully took him in to well-appointments for his many, many vaccinations. I know that I was doing what I thought I was supposed to do, but it is sad to know that I have helped cause many of his problems. At least I realized the truth before causing any harm to my younger children.

Lynsey


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## member (Apr 15, 2002)

G'morning, everyone,

I had the blood test done to check for CD and it came back negative. I am pretty happy about that, but still want to cut grain consumption because it's giving me icky symptoms.


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## krissi (Sep 24, 2004)

Quote:

No yeast, I sneaked that on in there again. Why on earth does raw fruit send his poops to mush then??
I don't think CDSA is considered 100% reliable for yeast. CDSA is good for other bacteria but DD comes up negative for yeast on CDSA also but extremely high positive for yeast metabolites (D-Arabinitol) on an organic acid urine test...plus definitive other symptoms. Our DAN explained that there are numerous reasons why yeast might not show up in a CDSA. It could be that it is located higher up in the digestive tract so that there's not much coming out in the stool, or one DAN mentioned something like that the body may be coating it in antibodies so that it is there but does not grow in the lab setting.


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## Ex Libris (Jan 31, 2004)

Hi everyone,
I hope you don't mind a newbie asking some silly questions! I'm just wondering how you know if you need to "heal the gut." I've got some issues, but I'm not sure whether this is the right place to start.

I've been having bowel problems, which I've traced, in part, to the selenium supplements I was taking. I've since stopped, but things still seem off. I'm often gassy and the bathroom is uninhabitable after I've used it (sorry if tmi). I take Sodium Ascorbate, soak all of my grains, eat sourdough, yogurt, and kefir (and I've started eating kimchi, too), but some of these things seem to add to the problem. My mom has IBS, and I'm hoping I'm not getting it, too. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Also, my family has a history of depression and general nervousness/anxiety, which I've unfortunately inherited. I was going to ask my dr. about anti-depressant meds, but then I saw something on this forum about amino acid and diet/nutrition therapy. Is this something anyone here knows about?

Thanks,

Kelly


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Pattyla--I eat 8-12 Tbsp/day of CO. No butter because of DD's dairy intolerance. I have 1 Tbsp in a cup of herbal tea, 3x/day (I'm making my own tea blends for liver support and digestive support). I make a "thousand island" salad dressing w/homemade mayo (1/2 EVOO & 1/2 CO) and eat a couple of salads a day, so that's another 1 1/2 Tbsp/CO and about the same of EVOO a day. Plus I have a Tbsp with my fried eggs in the morning and add 3-4 Tbsp. in soup for lunch (good way to get both bone broth and fats in). Then if I make a casserole for dinner I add 4-6 Tbsp/CO to that.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

JaneS--any opinions on whether I should continue with the Bifidus probiotics for DD once she starts solids, or go with a regular infant probiotic that contains other strains?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I finally have some concrete proof that the anti-candida diet is working for me. We're visiting DH's family and I have been pretty much eating the SAD for the last week--I planned to eat well but we have been on the go and eating most meals at restaurants, and it just has not happened. I've also eaten a ton of sugar







:

But...I've had a sore spot in a molar (probably a cavity but haven't been to a dentist) for over a year, and I noticed that it is pretty much gone. I wouldn't be surprised if it comes back after all this sugar, but clearly the diet was healing it (it didn't improve at all on the SCD), even with no butter/butter oil in my diet.

I've also been really bloated after going off the diet...probably the sugar alone would make me bloat, but I know I was bloated when I started the anti-candida diet, also, and that had gone away, so yet another sign that it was helping.

I'm kind of frustrated because I feel like I'm undoing all the progress I made over the last couple of months on this trip, but at the same time, I think going off the diet for a bit is a good thing for a couple of reasons--one, because I am very confident now that it was helping, and that will help me stay on it. Also, I was really getting to the point where I was totally obsessing about food--obsessing about eating healthy foods, and fantasizing about eating junk food, which basically led to me totally binging on junk when it was available. After a bit of soul-searching I think I can finally have a realistic attitude about food now--sticking to the diet without obsessing about either eating perfectly or eating junk, and just letting myself heal SLOWLY (it takes forever it seems like!).


----------



## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Cademyn - I agree, the duration is hard to handle. When I started I thought it was an accute issue to be dealt with. Over time, with reading, etc., Ive come to the realization that it is a year(s) long thing







On one hand, its exciting to think of the power of food and how well we're taking care of ourselves now, but on the other, I am a big believer in *everything in moderation* for a balanced happy life. I think eating *junk* has its place, and it is sad to not have that in the mix right now. I too am in my 6th week and have noticed little/no change - it IS very hard to keep the faith, also when ones Dh is "not that interested in yeast". Im wondering; you mentioned that you were going to go off garlic this week with your family and do candidase or candizyme instead (i guess your altered diet would not allow you to tell whether it was *helping* or not though). Im very curious about the efficacy of enzymes on yeast - should i fork out the $$$......


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momandmore2*
Hi everyone,
I hope you don't mind a newbie asking some silly questions! I'm just wondering how you know if you need to "heal the gut." I've got some issues, but I'm not sure whether this is the right place to start.

I've been having bowel problems, which I've traced, in part, to the selenium supplements I was taking. I've since stopped, but things still seem off. I'm often gassy and the bathroom is uninhabitable after I've used it (sorry if tmi). I take Sodium Ascorbate, soak all of my grains, eat sourdough, yogurt, and kefir (and I've started eating kimchi, too), but some of these things seem to add to the problem. My mom has IBS, and I'm hoping I'm not getting it, too. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Also, my family has a history of depression and general nervousness/anxiety, which I've unfortunately inherited. I was going to ask my dr. about anti-depressant meds, but then I saw something on this forum about amino acid and diet/nutrition therapy. Is this something anyone here knows about?

Thanks,

Kelly


Did you start all these things at the same time (kimchi, kefir, SA etc...)?
They can cause massive die-off by themselves, let alone together. Go easy with the probiotics...one thing at a time and when things settled in your tummy, then add another one.
Stinky poop could be bacterial overgrowth.
Or it could be the kimchi. Fermented cabbage makes my BM-s stinky too, but I can tell it's the cabbage.
How much selenium were you taking? I'd rather do 1-2 soaked brazil nuts...
Soaking grains is great, but still don't overdo it. Our diet shouldn't be centered on grains, even if they are soaked. If you have gut issues you might want to get off grains for a while.
IBS could run in families because they tend to eat the same things.
The WAPF diet is great for life but it will take much longer to heal than SCD for example, because you're still doing a lot of carbs.


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Im wondering; you mentioned that you were going to go off garlic this week with your family and do candidase or candizyme instead (i guess your altered diet would not allow you to tell whether it was *helping* or not though). Im very curious about the efficacy of enzymes on yeast - should i fork out the $$$......[/QUOTE said:


> I'd be interested, too. I'm about to order some candizyme...


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Nolansmum, if you cut out all sugars for a month without cheating, it will get easier. Make sure you are getting enough chromium and vanadium to help stabilize blood sugar.







to you.

Jane,







to you and the little guy. Sorry he's having to go through so much testing to find out what's wrong, but glad that you're able to afford to pay for the testing. Or have great insurance!

Selu, I've heard that the blood test for CU isn't that reliable, and that there is a stool test that is far more accurate. I can't remember the name of the company and have lost all my old bookmarks. If I can dig it up, do you want me to PM it to you?

Kelly, go over to the PPD forum, there is a thread there on "a completely natural remedy for PPD" that includes info about amino acid therapy. I didn't work for me, because the aminos gave me migraines, but some women, gale force in particular, have really benefited from them.


----------



## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

Quote:

(I'm making my own tea blends for liver support and digestive support).
caedmyn, can you share your tea recipe?? I am wanting to do more support for my liver and was thinking about adding milk thistle. Just wondering what you use.

Stacy


----------



## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Im not Cademyn (







) but I drink a tea by Triple Leaf tea called Detox. Alternately, you could get loose herbs of Dandelion, Nettles, Yellow Dock, Burdock, red clover, and I know there are others but that would be a good start.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
It's a good thing this child is so cute.









:

If I had a penny for every time a phrase such as that was uttered in our house.

Best of luck Jane.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *krissi*
I don't think CDSA is considered 100% reliable for yeast. CDSA is good for other bacteria but DD comes up negative for yeast on CDSA also but extremely high positive for yeast metabolites (D-Arabinitol) on an organic acid urine test...plus definitive other symptoms. Our DAN explained that there are numerous reasons why yeast might not show up in a CDSA. It could be that it is located higher up in the digestive tract so that there's not much coming out in the stool, or one DAN mentioned something like that the body may be coating it in antibodies so that it is there but does not grow in the lab setting.

Arghhh. I wish I had known that before I shelled out $300+ for each dd. Oh well, I guess I did find out one good thing in that neither dd has *any* beneficial bacteria.


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I finally have some concrete proof that the anti-candida diet is working for me. We're visiting DH's family and I have been pretty much eating the SAD for the last week--I planned to eat well but we have been on the go and eating most meals at restaurants, and it just has not happened. I've also eaten a ton of sugar







:

But...I've had a sore spot in a molar (probably a cavity but haven't been to a dentist) for over a year, and I noticed that it is pretty much gone. I wouldn't be surprised if it comes back after all this sugar, but clearly the diet was healing it (it didn't improve at all on the SCD), even with no butter/butter oil in my diet.

I've also been really bloated after going off the diet...probably the sugar alone would make me bloat, but I know I was bloated when I started the anti-candida diet, also, and that had gone away, so yet another sign that it was helping.

I'm kind of frustrated because I feel like I'm undoing all the progress I made over the last couple of months on this trip, but at the same time, I think going off the diet for a bit is a good thing for a couple of reasons--one, because I am very confident now that it was helping, and that will help me stay on it. Also, I was really getting to the point where I was totally obsessing about food--obsessing about eating healthy foods, and fantasizing about eating junk food, which basically led to me totally binging on junk when it was available. After a bit of soul-searching I think I can finally have a realistic attitude about food now--sticking to the diet without obsessing about either eating perfectly or eating junk, and just letting myself heal SLOWLY (it takes forever it seems like!).

I could have written this post myself...

My biggest hurdle is the food obsession-I constantly think about food all day long. What will be my next meal? When can I have ___? I don't think you will have undone your progress, maybe a little setback. It sounds like you have renewed vigor for sticking with the diet.

Thanks for pointing out the minerals, I think I am finally to the point where I need help with my suppliments and am going to make an appt with an applied kinesiologist.


----------



## Ex Libris (Jan 31, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Did you start all these things at the same time (kimchi, kefir, SA etc...)?
They can cause massive die-off by themselves, let alone together. Go easy with the probiotics...one thing at a time and when things settled in your tummy, then add another one.
Stinky poop could be bacterial overgrowth.
Or it could be the kimchi. Fermented cabbage makes my BM-s stinky too, but I can tell it's the cabbage.
How much selenium were you taking? I'd rather do 1-2 soaked brazil nuts...
Soaking grains is great, but still don't overdo it. Our diet shouldn't be centered on grains, even if they are soaked. If you have gut issues you might want to get off grains for a while.
IBS could run in families because they tend to eat the same things.
The WAPF diet is great for life but it will take much longer to heal than SCD for example, because you're still doing a lot of carbs.

Thanks for replying to my questions, EBG. No, I started all of the probiotics at different times. I know the selenium was causing a lot of the problem. My symptoms got better after I stopped taking it. I think I need a different form/brand. The one I was taking had yeast in it (that should've been my first clue). I was taking 200 mg a day. Unfortunately I can't find a good source of brazil nuts.

When you say I might have "bacterial overgrowth," what do you mean and how do I treat it?

I think you're right about the grains. I'm addicted to them--I don't eat sugar anymore, which is good, but I've replaced them with the next closest thing, grains. I just don't feel full unless I've got a belly-full of bread, rice, oatmeal, etc. So you recommend I cut down and see what happens? Or should I just try the SCD diet and see what happens?

Pookietooth--thanks for telling me about the PPD forum--I've been reading around over there all day today and have found lots of great info!


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

enzymes between meals--I can't tell if they're helping or not. They're not producing die-off symptoms. I haven't been all that great at remembering to take them, though, and the crappy diet doesn't help. I think I'll have 5 or 6 days worth left when I get back home and I'm going to take the rest of them while I'm back on the anti-candida program to hopefully help jump-start healing again.

The more I think about it, the more I feel the anti-candida program was helping me. When I started it I had mild acne, which improved although it didn't entirely clear up (maybe improved 75%). I had more energy and felt pretty good in spite of getting up 3 or more times a night with DD. I've also had sensitive front teeth for years, and this week I realized that had gone away on the diet, too (it's back after my junk food binge but hopefully will go away again quickly). I just need to stop obsessing about how long healing is taking, and why I still have gas, and when is my digestion going to be *perfect*.

Somebody mentioned something about sugar cravings on the anti-candida diet...I had horrible sugar cravings for about 2-3 weeks after I started the diet and didn't cheat. Then they completely went away.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artisticat*
caedmyn, can you share your tea recipe?? I am wanting to do more support for my liver and was thinking about adding milk thistle. Just wondering what you use.

Stacy

I'll try to remember to look it up when I get home (Sunday)...can't remember it all off the top of my head.


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

I've been on scd since 8/17, and dd (who is ebf and 3 months old) has pooped about every 3-4 days since I started. Now we're on day 8 - should I be worried? I started her on Bifido factor Monday (long story - took me a month of hard work and 4 diff stores trying to order it to get the dairy free), so I'm wondering if that has played a role. Interestingly, she is happier and more alert than she's been before, so it doesn't seem like it's bothering her. She does still have very stinky gas, though, so I know there are still issues.

I'm obsessing over wanting this child to poop! But seriously, when should I worry?


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

*JaneS* - Im half way through the power of p's thread - in it you mention that your ds was on lactbacilluss GG and you really liked it, but now you are into reuteri. Why the switch, what do you notice in difference?

For those who care







, I started ds on reuteri today, so we'll see what happens to his poops (they are always soft, usually runny). I also have my first batch of yogurt in the maker! I used 1 qt milk, 1/4 c. yogurt (bulgarian style? It had nothing in it but good pb's and milk), and 1 tbsp. Primadophilus children (it had a good mix of stuff in it, and is powder so easier to use) We'll see.


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## p1gg1e (Apr 3, 2004)

Hi all I was on the I belive May healing the gut tribe and I found out I was pregnant and got distracted









I have a couple questions if anyone can help. My PH was off at my last MW appointment, ANd I'm felling yeasty in the gut again ( I was doing so well) I switched digestive enzymes and proboitis to the H.O.P.E formula stuff and I'm wondering if that was the problem. Its the 50 billion probiotic and well I'm wondering now if it was money best spent elswhere ( its almost $40 I belive)

So I'm doing Garlic and fish oil right now to fight the yeast. I now can no longer handle dairy







so I think I'm worse.

#1. what probiotic is good?
#2. what herbs are same during pregnancy for Candida infections?

I'm thinking of getting a yogurt maker and seeing if I can tolerate whole yogurt that is home made? Sigh I'm getting worried and overwhelmed worring about this new baby being born to the yeast queen


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*
*JaneS* - Im half way through the power of p's thread - in it you mention that your ds was on lactbacilluss GG and you really liked it, but now you are into reuteri. Why the switch, what do you notice in difference?

That must have been a while ago... while DS was still bf'ing? He seemed to respond very well at first, it was px'd by our ND. He had such a wide diet too (although I thought it was limited at the time.) Well once I weaned him all hell broke loose (with no new foods added). And that led me to SCD and we did just acidophilus for a while as he was dairy free for first 6 mos on it.

Recently I put him back on Reuteri cultured with his goat yogurt and his poops really firmed up. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to mean he can tolerate more foods though right now though (all SCD legal too).


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou*
I've been on scd since 8/17, and dd (who is ebf and 3 months old) has pooped about every 3-4 days since I started. Now we're on day 8 - should I be worried? I started her on Bifido factor Monday (long story - took me a month of hard work and 4 diff stores trying to order it to get the dairy free), so I'm wondering if that has played a role. Interestingly, she is happier and more alert than she's been before, so it doesn't seem like it's bothering her. She does still have very stinky gas, though, so I know there are still issues.

I'm obsessing over wanting this child to poop! But seriously, when should I worry?

This is probably caused by her flora changing. Can you try to nurse more so she gets more fluids? (and you need to drink a ton). BM is a natural laxative. Which probiotic did you get?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
I'm trying a new probiotic after much research. Dear god I hope it helps.

Tell me more about this research and new probiotic!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *krissi*
I don't think CDSA is considered 100% reliable for yeast. CDSA is good for other bacteria but DD comes up negative for yeast on CDSA also but extremely high positive for yeast metabolites (D-Arabinitol) on an organic acid urine test...plus definitive other symptoms. Our DAN explained that there are numerous reasons why yeast might not show up in a CDSA. It could be that it is located higher up in the digestive tract so that there's not much coming out in the stool, or one DAN mentioned something like that the body may be coating it in antibodies so that it is there but does not grow in the lab setting.

This is what I think too. DS had those fluffy poo's and not sleeping and hands in his mouth, chewing on his fingers. Seems like yeast to me? He is still in diapers at night so cannot do the OAT test.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *p1gg1e*
Hi all I was on the I belive May healing the gut tribe and I found out I was pregnant and got distracted









I have a couple questions if anyone can help. My PH was off at my last MW appointment, ANd I'm felling yeasty in the gut again ( I was doing so well) I switched digestive enzymes and proboitis to the H.O.P.E formula stuff and I'm wondering if that was the problem. Its the 50 billion probiotic and well I'm wondering now if it was money best spent elswhere ( its almost $40 I belive)

So I'm doing Garlic and fish oil right now to fight the yeast. I now can no longer handle dairy







so I think I'm worse.

#1. what probiotic is good?
#2. what herbs are same during pregnancy for Candida infections?

I'm thinking of getting a yogurt maker and seeing if I can tolerate whole yogurt that is home made? Sigh I'm getting worried and overwhelmed worring about this new baby being born to the yeast queen



















I really think homemade yogurt/kefir is best for probiotics. You can get 15 billion in a teaspoon. You can also try water kefir grains, there is a thread in Traditional Foods forum about them if you are not sure about dairy.

I would try to treat the problem with food rather than a yeast killer during pregnancy. What is your diet like?

What fish oil are you taking? I would take high vitamin cod liver oil.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I really think homemade yogurt/kefir is best for probiotics.

Sorry forgot to add my usual... "that being said we've seen results with Nature's Way Reuteri and Culturelle". Both of those have a lot of science backing them. You just need to take way more than the bottle says, and like 3x/day. Gets really expensive. Which is why I'm culturing DS's yogurt with the Reuteri to boost bacterial count easily.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
Jane,







to you and the little guy. Sorry he's having to go through so much testing to find out what's wrong, but glad that you're able to afford to pay for the testing. Or have great insurance!

Thanks, it is on our insurance... but it's not all I want. Got both DH and Dr. wishes to contend with and it's frustrating me. The dr. is going slow and wants to wait on all the testing I requested until after we uncover the allergies. If I had lots of money, DS would be at the Pfeiffer Center.


----------



## p1gg1e (Apr 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*









I would try to treat the problem with food rather than a yeast killer during pregnancy. What is your diet like?

What fish oil are you taking? I would take high vitamin cod liver oil.

Thanks









I'm taking salmon oil I have cod liver oil though I can take. Cant remember brand its upstiars right now. I also take garlic, and GSE. Oh and my Prenatel Vitamin ( natures sunshine ) it sits well.

My diet has been Complex carbs no refined sugar. I have dark chocolate everyonce an awhile other wise I'd dye







. Um no colors , preservatives , hydroganated oils ect.

#1.Would canberry juice be good to drink?

#2.What yogurt maker is good for the $$? I just did lactose free milk ( just a sip) so far so good







would I be able to make Yogurt with lactose free milk?

My DD is allergic to all animal milk ( other than mine







) protien even in yogurt. I'll have to stick to soy for her till she gets older right? She just stops listening and is restless ( when she was and infant she used to vomit if I ate it), otherwise she is normal without it







: .

**added**

the probiotic you listed is more than half cheaper than the one I take. here is what I take ( 3x day) and I'm not getting better infact worse :

http://www.smartbomb.com/rl53551.html


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mom2baldie*
Thanks for your response Jane.

To answer your questions, we have been seeing this Dr. for several months now, but we just completed all the testing she ordered for my son.

We found that he has a number of food allergies. Soy, dairy, corn, egg, pork and wheat being a few of them. Soy was the most severe according to their testing, but I really have my doubts about how reliable it is... Anyways, after that part of the testing was complete I was given a prescription for allergy shots to give him twice a week because they said that I wouldn't be able to cut all of those foods out of his diet.

He is also low in B vitamins, has low glutathione (which a lotion was prescribed for) and has an intestinal parasite called dientamoeba fragilis trophs that was found in moderate amounts in his stool, in addition to the yeast overgrowth. He has not been tested for heavy metal poisoning.

I have been reading about the GFCF diet and would like to try this, but am unsure of how well it will work considering that I won't have the support of my husband or my mom (my only other family). My mom is horrible about feeding my children junk, she wouldn't handle us being on a special diet very well at all.







I did join a yahoo group for gfcf recipes/families and looking at many of the recipes I saw that most of them have foods he has an allergy to, so I am not sure what to do about that.

Yes, he does take probiotics everyday, but he is still low in beneficial bacteria. I am not sure if what I am giving him is the best product or not though. His Dr. recommended something called "Ultra Flora DF" that comes in capsule form.

Thank you for the book and support group recommendations. I am just so overwhelmed. The 1st time someone mentioned autism to me was when he was around 2, the 1st time I took him to be evaluated he was 3 and the woman tried to write me a prescription for a ritalin-type drug. She said to me "If he had another illness you would give him medication right? It is the same thing. He is sick and he needs medicine."

I never took their prescriptions, but I did give him antibiotics for his endless ear infections and dutifully took him in to well-appointments for his many, many vaccinations. I know that I was doing what I thought I was supposed to do, but it is sad to know that I have helped cause many of his problems. At least I realized the truth before causing any harm to my younger children.

Lynsey









You have a lot to deal with, my heart goes out to you! As far as your mom goes, I think you just need to tell her no more and that's it. I had to do that myself (my mom and my DH too!) so I know not as easy as it sounds.

I thought allergy shots didn't work for food allergies? What tests were they?

You might try just increasing the probiotics you give, I've heard of some kids needing 6 capsules/day to maintain and more to get better.

For the gluthiaone issue you can up his vitamin C to help detox.


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *p1gg1e*
Thanks









I'm taking salmon oil I have cod liver oil though I can take. Cant remember brand its upstiars right now. I also take garlic, and GSE. Oh and my Prenatel Vitamin ( natures sunshine ) it sits well.

My diet has been Complex carbs no refined sugar. I have dark chocolate everyonce an awhile other wise I'd dye







. Um no colors , preservatives , hydroganated oils ect.

#1.Would canberry juice be good to drink?

#2.What yogurt maker is good for the $$? I just did lactose free milk ( just a sip) so far so good







would I be able to make Yogurt with lactose free milk?

My DD is allergic to all animal milk ( other than mine







) protien even in yogurt. I'll have to stick to soy for her till she gets older right? She just stops listening and is restless ( when she was and infant she used to vomit if I ate it), otherwise she is normal without it







: .

**added**

the probiotic you listed is more than half cheaper than the one I take. here is what I take ( 3x day) and I'm not getting better infact worse :

http://www.smartbomb.com/rl53551.html


I think CLO is enough you don't need extra salmon oil. Dosage: http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...fications.html

GSE is not really safe during pregnancy. The only yeast killer thing you can do is garlic.

I use a Salton yogurt maker. Amazon has them and also bedbathandbeyond.com for about 15 bucks plus shipping. Makes a quart. You can try raw milk yogurt to see if your D tolerates that better. Her problem with milk protein could be due to pasteurization. If not, you can make coconut milk yogurt, too.

I second the recommendation for Culturelle. There is a ton of research on it's benefits during pregnancy. It helps prevent allergies/dermatitis later for infants. It's about 17 bucks in Walmart, and about 21 in CVS and HFS-s. Look for the falt box with no inulin.

Please don't give her soy







:

cranberry juice can be drunk for short periods to prevent/cure UTIs. Otherwise, it's still high in sugar for candida.

I'm another yeasty mama who gave birth to 2 yeasty babies and had no idea until recently. Now I'm trying to heal all of us...
At least you can give your unborn baby the best nutrition.
Every day: bone broths, two eggs, CLO, acerola/amla for vitamin C, liver if you don't gag







, coconut oil, probiotics, butter butter butter, no vegetable oils or soy. Meat, veggies, fruits. Try to see if you can go witout grains, if not, try only soaked/fermented oatmeal, buckwheat or quinoa. Quinoa is helpful for lactating women. Tnese are better than prenatals.

Congrats on your pregnancy!


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

momandmore2 said:


> Thanks for replying to my questions, EBG. No, I started all of the probiotics at different times. I know the selenium was causing a lot of the problem. My symptoms got better after I stopped taking it. I think I need a different form/brand. The one I was taking had yeast in it (that should've been my first clue). I was taking 200 mg a day. Unfortunately I can't find a good source of brazil nuts.
> 
> When you say I might have "bacterial overgrowth," what do you mean and how do I treat it?
> 
> ...


----------



## krissi (Sep 24, 2004)

Quote:

This is what I think too. DS had those fluffy poo's and not sleeping and hands in his mouth, chewing on his fingers. Seems like yeast to me? He is still in diapers at night so cannot do the OAT test.
I'd think it was yeast for sure. The way we tell when DD's yeast is flaring is poo changes and she starts acting truly drunk, giggling and stumbling around and waking up at night giggling and being in a state that she doesn't seem aware of her surroundings. Then it alternates with almost being like a hangover when she has a headache, hates bright lights and wants no human contact...greatly interfering with therapy.

Actually DD is not the slightest bit potty trained and we were still able to do an OAT. I stick urine collection bags in her diaper, which she hates and doesn't work terribly well but we can usually get barely enough for labwork. I know some OATs require full first morning urine etc but maybe it varies by the lab. The one we did was as a part of the Metametrix ION panel but it's available individually also I think...they just needed 12 mls of first morning urine which we got from an overnight urine collection bag.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *p1gg1e*
Hi all I was on the I belive May healing the gut tribe and I found out I was pregnant and got distracted









I have a couple questions if anyone can help. My PH was off at my last MW appointment, ANd I'm felling yeasty in the gut again ( I was doing so well) I switched digestive enzymes and proboitis to the H.O.P.E formula stuff and I'm wondering if that was the problem. Its the 50 billion probiotic and well I'm wondering now if it was money best spent elswhere ( its almost $40 I belive)

So I'm doing Garlic and fish oil right now to fight the yeast. I now can no longer handle dairy







so I think I'm worse.

#1. what probiotic is good?
#2. what herbs are same during pregnancy for Candida infections?

I'm thinking of getting a yogurt maker and seeing if I can tolerate whole yogurt that is home made? Sigh I'm getting worried and overwhelmed worring about this new baby being born to the yeast queen









I have recently learned that clove is anti yeast. You could drink clove tea to fight the yeast safely durring pg.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
This is what I think too. DS had those fluffy poo's and not sleeping and hands in his mouth, chewing on his fingers. Seems like yeast to me? He is still in diapers at night so cannot do the OAT test.

I didn't know that chewing on fingers was a yeast thing. My dd does that all the time! Although it seems to be abating somewhat now.


----------



## p1gg1e (Apr 3, 2004)

Hum I thought GSE was safe from what I read. My MW said it was ok also... can you tell me more









Ok the yogurt maker is on the list. I tried raw cows milk for myslef but not DD the lactose was still to much for me in the raw









Good resipes for coconut milk yogurt?

Sigh DD loves soy milk but I'll switch to rice or almond... those ok?

Sigh I'll just have to do the meat veggie fruit thing









Thanks!


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *p1gg1e*
Hum I thought GSE was safe from what I read. My MW said it was ok also... can you tell me more









Ok the yogurt maker is on the list. I tried raw cows milk for myslef but not DD the lactose was still to much for me in the raw









Good resipes for coconut milk yogurt?

Sigh DD loves soy milk but I'll switch to rice or almond... those ok?

Sigh I'll just have to do the meat veggie fruit thing









Thanks!

I have been making coconut milk yogurt. It tastes pretty good:
2 cans coconut milk (full fat)
2 T honey
2 T gelatin
1 packet yogurt starter
vanilla
http://www.giprohealth.com/Merchant2...y_Code=ProGurt
Heat the milk, honey and gelatin. allow to cool to 110 add yogurt starter. Let culture at 110 for 8-10 hrs.

You can also try fermented foods.


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Oh mamas









Thank you for being there for me all these months, I am so grateful for all that I have learned from you.

I'm taking some time from Mothering to focus on healing my son.

Much love and peace to all of you,
Amy


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
enzymes between meals--I can't tell if they're helping or not. They're not producing die-off symptoms. I haven't been all that great at remembering to take them, though, and the crappy diet doesn't help. I think I'll have 5 or 6 days worth left when I get back home and I'm going to take the rest of them while I'm back on the anti-candida program to hopefully help jump-start healing again.

The more I think about it, the more I feel the anti-candida program was helping me. When I started it I had mild acne, which improved although it didn't entirely clear up (maybe improved 75%). I had more energy and felt pretty good in spite of getting up 3 or more times a night with DD. I've also had sensitive front teeth for years, and this week I realized that had gone away on the diet, too (it's back after my junk food binge but hopefully will go away again quickly). I just need to stop obsessing about how long healing is taking, and why I still have gas, and when is my digestion going to be *perfect*.

Somebody mentioned something about sugar cravings on the anti-candida diet...I had horrible sugar cravings for about 2-3 weeks after I started the diet and didn't cheat. Then they completely went away.

It was me who was having a hard time with sugar cravings. I was trying to do the anticandida diet because I was so close to it anyway but it is too hard for me right now. I decided to stick with SCD, it has helped so much already in the 3 months I have been doing it. I allow myself a little treat with honey and it is enough to keep the cravings at bay and my mind from thinking about food the whole day.

I did the spit test for yeast and it floated like a blob-does this mean the yeast is under control? Should I do the test every few days?


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

This may sound weird... would there be benefits to making yogurt out of BM for DS?


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kundalini-Mama*
Oh mamas









Thank you for being there for me all these months, I am so grateful for all that I have learned from you.

I'm taking some time from Mothering to focus on healing my son.

Much love and peace to all of you,
Amy

Amy







my prayers go with you.


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kundalini-Mama*
Oh mamas









Thank you for being there for me all these months, I am so grateful for all that I have learned from you.

I'm taking some time from Mothering to focus on healing my son.

Much love and peace to all of you,
Amy

Amy-I wish you peace and strength!


----------



## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

*Yogurt* - ugh. Just opened my first batch, and







I made a pint, but got about 2c. of soft yogurt, the rest was whey. I boiled a pint of milk, cooled it, added 1/4c yogurt mixed with itbsp primadophilus childrens. Let it sit in the salton for 24 hrs. Ideas? I *may* have cooled the milk too much, it was right at 110 when I added everything. Im disappointed. The kids say it tastes good, but what to do with the whey (I saved it), and should I use yogurt from this batch for the next?


----------



## Ex Libris (Jan 31, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*
*Yogurt* - ugh. Just opened my first batch, and







I made a pint, but got about 2c. of soft yogurt, the rest was whey. I boiled a pint of milk, cooled it, added 1/4c yogurt mixed with itbsp primadophilus childrens. Let it sit in the salton for 24 hrs. Ideas? I *may* have cooled the milk too much, it was right at 110 when I added everything. Im disappointed. The kids say it tastes good, but what to do with the whey (I saved it), and should I use yogurt from this batch for the next?

I'd recommend investing in a candy thermometer so you can be sure of the right temp. Heat the milk until it's 180 degrees, cool it to 110-115 in a sink of cold water. When the milk is cool, mix a couple of cups of it with a live yogurt starter (about ¼ cup for 4 quarts is what I use; you can probably use some from the batch you just made), then add it all back into the big pan of milk and mix well. Then divide the milk-yogurt mixture into your jugs. Then incubate at 110-115 degrees for 12-24 hours. I usually put mine in a cooler with some jars of hot water that I re-heat throughout the day, but you can put the thermometer in the oven to check the temp in there. It's very important to maintain the temperature while its incubating. Too high and you'll kill it, too low and it won't turn to yogurt (which is probably what happened to your last batch).

Good luck! Kelly


----------



## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

sakiasmom, I second the recommendation for a thermometer, but would say that it really should be 100-110. Over 110 and the good bugs start to die, along with the enzymes.


----------



## sphinxie (Feb 28, 2006)

Hi guys! Oh man I hope this group gets its own subforum some day soon...

I'm returning from my wedding last weekend, where as you can imagine there was absolutely no point in maintaining any semblance of a diet. However, I still have no sweet cravings. (However my resistance to eating something sweet if it's right in front of me is gone.







)

Surprisingly I found that my best friend from college is also doing this stuff, with a no-sugar no-grains diet. Oddly, she doesn't think about the whys and wherefores. So now I have an RL friend I can discuss this stuff with. I'm always shy to start talking about it because I know it's the beginning of a slippery slope, at the end of which I could become one of those people who discusses their BMs in public. (I'm not including this board as "public"... I've already brought up my BMs here anyway!) Of course I told her this and she promptly started talking about her BMs while we were walking down the street... better her than me, I guess









I took two doses of diflucan just before the wedding to get rid of some persistant thrush that had come up...

And I have started eating chicken again, leaving vegetarianism behind until I get a handle on my health. Honestly though it makes me feel gross, like I've got a rock in my stomach. So far it hasn't been organic chicken. So I dunno about that.

My first goal is to reach 90% home cooking or so. After that I will start to tinker more with my diet, but it's basically impossible to abstain from lots of stuff when I'm not really in control of what I eat. (The restaurants here don't have many healthy choices.) So I'll start out like that again. It does help me to have a restricted diet because then there are fewer overwhelming choices with what to cook, but I won't be strict about them at first. I'd also like to do a parasite test just in case, even though my ND is sure I have one and it may not show up. And I need to get religious about my supplements again--that really fell out the window.

Oh, I started making whole wheat yogurt soda bread from an anti-candida cookbook. Mmm! Not only is it yummy, but it's vastly easier to make than yeasted bread.


----------



## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momandmore2*
I'd recommend investing in a candy thermometer so you can be sure of the right temp. Heat the milk until it's 180 degrees, cool it to 110-115 in a sink of cold water. When the milk is cool, mix a couple of cups of it with a live yogurt starter (about ¼ cup for 4 quarts is what I use; you can probably use some from the batch you just made), then add it all back into the big pan of milk and mix well. Then divide the milk-yogurt mixture into your jugs. Then incubate at 110-115 degrees for 12-24 hours. I usually put mine in a cooler with some jars of hot water that I re-heat throughout the day, but you can put the thermometer in the oven to check the temp in there. It's very important to maintain the temperature while its incubating. Too high and you'll kill it, too low and it won't turn to yogurt (which is probably what happened to your last batch).

Good luck! Kelly

This is EXACTLY what I did. I have a cndy thermometer, and used it. That's why Im so bummed (well, as bummed as you can or should be about yogurt







). I guess Ill try again, and toss the whey. Or look up some recipe in NT to use it for, but since I cant eat whey, why do I want to mak some yummy dish and then watch others eat it? Grrrrrr. The 2c I made today have been eagerly eaten by the kids though, and that's what this is for (now I just need some for tomorrow!!!) Thanks


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*
This is EXACTLY what I did. I have a cndy thermometer, and used it. That's why Im so bummed (well, as bummed as you can or should be about yogurt







). I guess Ill try again, and toss the whey. Or look up some recipe in NT to use it for, but since I cant eat whey, why do I want to mak some yummy dish and then watch others eat it? Grrrrrr. The 2c I made today have been eagerly eaten by the kids though, and that's what this is for (now I just need some for tomorrow!!!) Thanks

Have you been properly warned that the salton can get too hot? If you are using the plastic insert. To make perfect yogurt in mine I use a glass quart jar and no instert or cover (except for the metal cover on the canning jar). It keeps the yogurt right at 100 and makes perfect yogurt every time. There will be some extra whey whenever you make the yogurt and 1 pt of milk should make 2 cups of yogurt (1 pt=2cups) If what it gave you was softer than you expected yogurt then it came out right. This won't make yogurt like yoplait, that has additives to make it firmer.


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*
This is EXACTLY what I did. I have a cndy thermometer, and used it. That's why Im so bummed (well, as bummed as you can or should be about yogurt







). I guess Ill try again, and toss the whey. Or look up some recipe in NT to use it for, but since I cant eat whey, why do I want to mak some yummy dish and then watch others eat it? Grrrrrr. The 2c I made today have been eagerly eaten by the kids though, and that's what this is for (now I just need some for tomorrow!!!) Thanks

My Salton is too hot also. I use a glass jar, no plastic cover and I put warm water around the glass jar.


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sphinxie*
Hi guys! Oh man I hope this group gets its own subforum some day soon...

I'm returning from my wedding last weekend, where as you can imagine there was absolutely no point in maintaining any semblance of a diet. However, I still have no sweet cravings. (However my resistance to eating something sweet if it's right in front of me is gone.







)

Surprisingly I found that my best friend from college is also doing this stuff, with a no-sugar no-grains diet. Oddly, she doesn't think about the whys and wherefores. So now I have an RL friend I can discuss this stuff with. I'm always shy to start talking about it because I know it's the beginning of a slippery slope, at the end of which I could become one of those people who discusses their BMs in public. (I'm not including this board as "public"... I've already brought up my BMs here anyway!) Of course I told her this and she promptly started talking about her BMs while we were walking down the street... better her than me, I guess









I took two doses of diflucan just before the wedding to get rid of some persistant thrush that had come up...

And I have started eating chicken again, leaving vegetarianism behind until I get a handle on my health. Honestly though it makes me feel gross, like I've got a rock in my stomach. So far it hasn't been organic chicken. So I dunno about that.

My first goal is to reach 90% home cooking or so. After that I will start to tinker more with my diet, but it's basically impossible to abstain from lots of stuff when I'm not really in control of what I eat. (The restaurants here don't have many healthy choices.) So I'll start out like that again. It does help me to have a restricted diet because then there are fewer overwhelming choices with what to cook, but I won't be strict about them at first. I'd also like to do a parasite test just in case, even though my ND is sure I have one and it may not show up. And I need to get religious about my supplements again--that really fell out the window.

Oh, I started making whole wheat yogurt soda bread from an anti-candida cookbook. Mmm! Not only is it yummy, but it's vastly easier to make than yeasted bread.

Do you eat eggs? They are fast and easy to prepare. Also look into digestive enzymes to help digest the food/meat. Have you read the intro to Nourishing Traditions yet? It may helpp to steer you away from being a vegetarian.

Congrats on getting married!


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Nolan's mum- it is my understanding that human milk has a low enough amount of proteins/fats to make it unsuitable. NOT a silly question though!

Where do you get your gelatin to make your coconut yogurt? Do you just do the grocery store stuff in the packets?


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Nolan's mum- it is my understanding that human milk has a low enough amount of proteins/fats to make it unsuitable. NOT a silly question though!

Where do you get your gelatin to make your coconut yogurt? Do you just do the grocery store stuff in the packets?

I use this:
http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/store/e...jsp?id=BJ-1024
It is far cheaper than Knox at the grocery store and I think it is recommended in NT.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum*
This may sound weird... would there be benefits to making yogurt out of BM for DS?

I have friends on another site who have done this for kids with severe allergies that wanted to start solids. It gave them an opportunity to try eating something more solid and yet they were able to hold out introducing solids till 12 months like they wanted to for the sake of allergies.
I also know a woman who would use bm in recipes that called for milk for her dairy allergic son. (obviously she was avoiding diary herself).


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Thanks, I'll try it out. My last attempts for the coconut yogurt failed miserably. I am going to try your recipe.


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Pattyla-that's great! I'm gonna have to try that too. I remeber reading about it not working, but I bet the people who tried it weren't pro's like some mamas here. It makes a difference!


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum*
This may sound weird... would there be benefits to making yogurt out of BM for DS?

I tried this and it was disgusting. You can't even use BM for kefir (that came out like baby spit-up).

I was told in one of the yogurt & kefir threads that the proteins in human milk are not the right size or conformation to congeal.


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Bluets, that's what I had read and from several different sources. Never tried it though. IT sounds like some people have actually had success though...


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

the yogurt might be a possibility - i'm not the most skilled yogurt maker. however, it is almost impossible to screw up kefir - and that one i certainly do not recommend. i didn't even do a full batch of human milk, just 2-3 oz (i ran out of cow milk but had some spare human milk in the freezer). the kefir didn't separate at all and had that vile baby spitup smell.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

What is everybody's favorite dairy free starter? Are there any good ones available in brick and mortars? Also-those making coconut yogurt, do you still do the 24 hour ferment? Trying to figure out EXACTLY where I went wrong! I am SO not a yogurt person.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *p1gg1e*
Hum I thought GSE was safe from what I read. My MW said it was ok also... can you tell me more









Ok the yogurt maker is on the list. I tried raw cows milk for myslef but not DD the lactose was still to much for me in the raw









Good resipes for coconut milk yogurt?

Sigh DD loves soy milk but I'll switch to rice or almond... those ok?

Sigh I'll just have to do the meat veggie fruit thing









Thanks!

I've read more negative things about GSE than positive. I know a lot of alternative medicine people use it and it should work for yeast, too. However, my understanding is that waht actually kills the yeast and bacteria is not the grapfruit seed extract itself but the chemicals in the solution. Some English newspaper had a report on it.... I think I saved the website if you're interested. Anyway, the only uncontaminated GSE didn't kill yeast.

So I don't know what to think and if it's iffy in general, I would stay away from it during pregnancy.

Somebody mentioned cloves, I think cloves (organic) and clove oil is safe. It's a mild antifungal, and also coconut oil!
But garlic is the most potent killer that is safe.

Almond milk: store bought stuff is loaded with sugar even if they try to disguise it as brown rice syrup or something.
Ricew milk, too.
You could make your own almond milk but it's a lot of work, and still very high in carbs for yeast.
Coconut milk is OK as long as there's nothing added besides trace amounts of gum. I get Native Forest at Whole Foods, and Thai Kitchen pure (small) or premium is OK, the old full fat version. Double check for ingredients because they have changed it. It should have a black top...


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## p1gg1e (Apr 3, 2004)

Ive been getting the unsweeted Almond milk and putting stevia in it.

I have a hand out on GSE and I agree it is the other stuff that makes it work.

I'm doing cranberry and garlic , Krout , and soon I will buy a yogurt maker. I'm hoping to get more acidic to kill the yeast also. I'm slowly feeling better. Though I'm going to try a new probiotic, I'm thinking this H.O.P.E. formula is not working.

anyone every try those (H.O.P.E.) products before?


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
What is everybody's favorite dairy free starter? Are there any good ones available in brick and mortars? Also-those making coconut yogurt, do you still do the 24 hour ferment? Trying to figure out EXACTLY where I went wrong! I am SO not a yogurt person.

I read somewhere that it only needs to ferment 8-10 hrs and that it needs the carbs in the honey to do this. My guess is that after a certain amount of time the bacteria has multiplied plenty and since there is no lactose to be concerned about it doesn't need to go 24 hrs. I used my Natures Way Reuteri as the starter (6 capsules) since the yogurt technically doesn't set (that's what the gelatine is for) it doesn't need l. casei.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

P1gg1e: How are you testing your pH? Are you relying on diet or looking at numbers?


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

FF, when/how do you test your pH? I got some strips and tested before and after eating (saliva) and couldn't really tell a difference.


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## sphinxie (Feb 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum*
Do you eat eggs? They are fast and easy to prepare. Also look into digestive enzymes to help digest the food/meat. Have you read the intro to Nourishing Traditions yet? It may helpp to steer you away from being a vegetarian.

Congrats on getting married!

I do eat eggs, but I have to rotate them because I'm somewhat sensitive to the yolks.

I take enzymes, but maybe I need to take more when eating chicken!

I read the intro to NT awhile back. It's quite interesting, but I find a lot of the time when she says "vegetarian diet" she's referring to a vegan diet, so there was an accuracy gap.

Oh and thank you


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I don't bother with saliva most of the time, I do urine testing. I find it to be more accurate. Oh, and I'm calling you today.







Sick kiddos made for a crazy weekend.


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## fullofgrace (Nov 26, 2002)

We started the enzymes on Friday night using the low and slow titration method that Houston recommends (the sheet that comes with them). I wasn't sure if I was really noticing a little improvement in my digestion or not until I didn't take them last night with dinner. My body gave me notice in the middle of the night that yes, they were starting to work and I should try not to forget again.

The girls started taking the chewables on Friday night, also. I was going to wait, but then they saw them and wanted me to open the bottle so they could see the actual pills. They liked the smell and wanted to take them. I figured I'd grab the opportunity while they were excited, and it was dinner-time anyway. They love them, and DH and I are already seeing some of the 'happy child effect' that Karin DeFelice wrote about (on separate occasions, too).


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *p1gg1e*
I'm hoping to get more acidic to kill the yeast also. I'm slowly feeling better?

I thought yeast dont like an _alkaline_ environment, hence the chlorophyl and lemon water?

*Yogurt* - thanks to those who warmed me about the too hot salton. I made another batch with the lid off of the incubator, and same result. Today I will test the maker for temp, but Im also wondering what else I might try if it is a good temp - would using ygourmet instead of store bought yogurt + prob's work better? Any other thoughts? I get about 1-2C solid yogurt at the bottom, then curds ad whey on top.

*Prob Strains* - So bifidum is bd, rhamnoses good, LGG good, casei good?

*Garlic* - So does it kill everything or *just* yeast?

I think that's it for now. Good morning all


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Garlic is antifungal, antibacterial and antiviral. It is a GREAT natural cleaner!

Yeast does like an acidic environment, pushing your system towards alkalinity is what kills it. That's why I was asking about the testing. I'm finding out alot of cool stuff regarding pH levels.

My kids LOVE the chewables from Houston! They beg for them. So cool, huh? Glad you're seeing good things.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

saskiasmom said:


> I thought yeast dont like an _alkaline_ environment, hence the chlorophyl and lemon water?
> 
> *Yogurt* - thanks to those who warmed me about the too hot salton. I made another batch with the lid off of the incubator, and same result. Today I will test the maker for temp, but Im also wondering what else I might try if it is a good temp - would using ygourmet instead of store bought yogurt + prob's work better? Any other thoughts? I get about 1-2C solid yogurt at the bottom, then curds ad whey on top.
> 
> ...


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

I tried to edit my post but couldnt get on to MDC. I just checked my yogurt (in the fridge overnight) as I had a theory that it just needed to cool completely to firm up, and yup!







Im so excited. Thanks EBG. Last time I poured off the curds and whey, this time I stirred it all together, which produced a chunky milk consistency, then put that in the fridge. I think Im good, but may try yogourmet in future to compare.

And thanks for the garlic elumination. *Firefaery* - do you think Oregano oil would be more specific to fungus then? Also, what is your opinion of GSE? Im not peg or nursing, unfortunately







And lastly, you mentioned that seeing an ND may not be worth it, as you have learned so much on your own. I am wishing I had a *professional* to discuss this all with, but also feel like Ive learned a lot, and what are they going to tell me etc. But many of you mention various testing, and I wonder if I should start down that road. But then again, the simple fact is that those abx stipmined my GI tract and its going to take a lonnnggg time, so what is testing going to tell me? I guess Im really looking for a more definitive answer on many of the products than I feel I have - arent we all









Thanks


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

There are many things that are more potent than garlic, and oregano oil is one of them (as long as it's the wild oregano oil) It is unsafe during nursing or pregnancy, but if you are in fact not doing either I'd say do it. Tanalbit is also very effective.

Most ND's are not as up on gut health as many of the ladies here. However noone here can run tests for you. If you feel you need more concrete answers there is no reason not to make an appointment. I jsut know that I wasted alot of $ I didn't have to begin with. But you will go in with a better understanding of what's going on, so if $ isnt' that big of an issue you could certainly do it. Especially if it's covered by insurance! It can also be helpful if you have something else going on (other mitigating factors) that you haven't pinpointed.

There are many worthwhile tests. The good part is if they start suggesting some, you can come back and chat with others who have done them and make a decision or find an alternative test. If your gut (







) is telling you to go, then go.


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Tanalbit is also very effective.

Tanalbit???

No insurance for an ND here, nor much $ the throw around. I have 2-3 IRL friends who have seen this woman, who Im not exactly clear what her creds are, about yeast stuff, and she has treated them successfully (they sing her praises). But it sounds like they're doing much of what I am already. I also think my case is worse, as I have not just imbalance but abx thrown in









I remembered my one more question: my broth does not gel at all. No gel to be seen. Ive made 2 batches of chicken broth so far. Its yummy, but makes me wonder. No I cant find chicken feet lol.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

The Original Anti-fungal. Plant tannin formula for GI health and support, including inflammation, food intolerance/allergies, detoxification, metal detoxification. Tanalbit® is an effective, non-prescription plant tannin formula for the gastrointestine when compromised by bacterial and/or fungal infestations.

Tanalbit® is recommended with: Magnesium Ascorbate, TanFlora® probiotic.

Tanalbit® is also extremely helpful in the following problems: toxicity buildup, bloating, gas, diarrhea, yeast and bacterial overgrowth, food allergies and/or food sensitivities/intolerance. As a result of its gastrointestinal support, Tanalbit® may help decrease debilitating fatigue.

The Tanalbit® formula is based on the powerful astringency and high antioxidant content (high proanthocyanidin content) of natural condensed tannins. Other components of Tanalbit® are chitin extract and lotus rhizome extract which provide synergistic anti-mycotic and anti-microbial action.

Use of Tanalbit® for yeast, fungal or bacterial infestations is commonly 6 weeks, more or less depending on individual symptoms. As a powerful antioxidant and detoxifier, Tanalbit® may be taken every day as advised to help "cleanse" or "remove" toxic substances including heavy metals

Because Tanalbit® is complexed with casein, a protein with hydroxyproline and proline amino acids, it is able to bypass degradation by stomach acid and effectively target the lower gastrointestine. The action is important for two reasons. First, it ensures that Tanalbit® is effective and Second, it ensures that Tanalbit® targets the lower intestine where most infestations remain entrenched. Anti-fungals complexed without protein are simply not as effective.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Tanalbit: new tool against Klebsiella and Ankylosing Spondylitis?

For those of us who have been suffering from AS (or some related disorder) and are exploring the connection between our now infamous bacteria "klebsiella", the HLA-B27 gene, and sometimes unexplainably ridiculous amounts of pain, we may have a new possibility to look into: a non-prescription plant tannin supplement called Tanalbit. (Kudos to "Mom" for tipping us off to this one.)

[As of this writing, I have not explored this beyond some quick "googling" around. So let me know if anyone finds anything else out.]

Tanalbit: What the heck is it?
Good question. Tanalbit is a non-prescription plant tannin formula that is reportedly very effective in the treatment of "Candidiasis and similar gastrointestinal problems caused by bacterial and/or fungal infestations of the gastrointestinal tract." According to some online resources, "Tanalbit is also extremely helpful in the following problems: toxicity buildup, IBS (irritable bowel syndrome), 'Leaky Gut' syndrome, Colitis, Intestinal Dysbiosis, food allergies. Tanalbit is also a chronic fatigue fighter, as Candidiasis is often implicated as the cause or contributing to Chronic Fatigue Syndrome as well as FMS (fibromyalgia syndrome)."

Many sources are also reporting that Tanalbit is very effective against klebsiella in particular.


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## p1gg1e (Apr 3, 2004)

Thanks for the info I will do the Lemon water and chloraphel (sp? Dislexia is BAD during pregnancy LOL) I was doing that wrong  I'm feeling better though and I think by the time this baby comes I'll be close to normal


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## krissi (Sep 24, 2004)

:

I'm glad I started reading this thread. It sounds like I need to get DS onto Tanalbit since Klebsiella was what he tested high for on his CDSA.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *krissi*







:

I'm glad I started reading this thread. It sounds like I need to get DS onto Tanalbit since Klebsiella was what he tested high for on his CDSA.

Wow - me too. Dd also tested high (4+) for this. I've been reading this thread here and there but haven't studied it all yet. Where do you get this stuff?

Actually, dd tested high on all the potential pathogens.









On her CDSA it shows Berberine, oregano, plant tannis (pecans have a lot of these) and Uva-Ursi to be helpful to klebsiella.


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## Vaquitita (Mar 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
This is what I think too. DS had those fluffy poo's and not sleeping and hands in his mouth, chewing on his fingers. Seems like yeast to me? He is still in diapers at night so cannot do the OAT test.

hands in the mouth and finger chewing is a sign of yeast? my son does this all the time and i just figured it was normal...

Quote:

I'd think it was yeast for sure. The way we tell when DD's yeast is flaring is poo changes and she starts acting truly drunk, giggling and stumbling around...
ack! ds was doing this yesterday, stumbling around and giggling. (he's done this before) his poo has been mushy too. he hasn't really eaten anything new. he is 12mo and is eating more now, but still just meats and veggies with raw butter, and the occasional fruit. my diet hasn't really changed lately either, just been trying to really up the probiotic foods. hmm... next time he does it i'll have to record what he's eaten. try to find a pattern. could die off cause this too?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Look what I found! We're removing metals right now.

Quote:

Tanalbit® is very effective in the treatment of acute and chronic diarrhea, colitis, enteritis, constipation and spastic colons. Furthermore, it can be employed as a detoxification agent for heavy metal poisoning and for alleviating food allergies.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

It's good stuff!


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum*
I have been making coconut milk yogurt. It tastes pretty good:
2 cans coconut milk (full fat)
2 T honey
2 T gelatin
1 packet yogurt starter
vanilla
http://www.giprohealth.com/Merchant2...y_Code=ProGurt
Heat the milk, honey and gelatin. allow to cool to 110 add yogurt starter. Let culture at 110 for 8-10 hrs.

You can also try fermented foods.

Oh, this sounds wonderful! I'm going to try it today!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I'm going to get the reuteri today and make it as well. Another use for my dehydrator! I can't wait for a successful batch of coconutty goodness.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*

I remembered my one more question: my broth does not gel at all. No gel to be seen. Ive made 2 batches of chicken broth so far. Its yummy, but makes me wonder. No I cant find chicken feet lol.


How long do you cook it? I can't find feet either, but I use chicken legs. Mine gels... I just cook it on low or 2-3 for several hours, almost all day if it's in a large pot. If there is skin on the legs, it will help gelling.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Didn't Sally Fallon mention something negative about tannins? Something like yes they help to detox but should be done only short term because they also rob your body of other nutrients...they bind with imoportant minerals like zinc and magnesium??? She mentioned the example of the Jewish practice of eating unleaved bread for only a week. (Not fermenting would leave plant tannins intact...or soemthing like this.)
Also, I was thinking it must be too strong a chelator for people with amalgams...or I could be totally wrong.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

In very high doses and for a long period of time that may be true. That isn't how the supplement is used. Also it seems to be fine for those with amalgams-you can google (I think) for specific studies. When I first found it last year it was a concern of mine as well.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
In very high doses and for a long period of time that may be true. That isn't how the supplement is used. Also it seems to be fine for those with amalgams-you can google (I think) for specific studies. When I first found it last year it was a concern of mine as well.

Hey, ff, I need to find a brand that comes in capsules that I can break apart, sprinkle, and close again for dd. What brand do you have and are they capsules like that?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Annikate, I never used it just had other people that did. I was always either pg or nursing







: It never ends over here!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Sorry-I will find you one though-let me see what I can come up with.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Thanks! I emailed this company and asked them. We'll see . . .


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Liver support tea recipe:

1 part echinacea root
1 part burdock root
1 part Oregon grape root
1 part yellow dock root
1 part sarsaparilla
1 part dandelion root

Use 1 heaping teaspoon of mixture per cup of tea. Simmer, cover, for 20 minutes. Remove from heat and steep for 20 minutes more.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Now that we are back from our trip and I can assess the damage...I gained 15 pounds in 10 days! I'm sure some of it is water weight, but wow, I can't believe I ate enough to gain that much weight! Really it's a good thing, though, since now I am back to the weight I was at when I started trying to heal my gut, which was probably too skinny to begin with. Hopefully I can hang on to some of this weight now.

TMI, but...I had major yeast-infection type itchiness come back after eating all that sugar, but after just a couple of days of the anti-candida diet it is pretty much gone again.









Oddly enough, though, I had one positive thing happen after eating all the junk--some thin silvery lines on my bottom teeth went away. I have no idea what caused them, but it seems like it must be a particular food that I'm eating since they went away when I went off my usual diet.

Magnesium question: for those who supplement with it, how much do you take? I got some yesterday because I've been getting leg cramps at night and take the recommended dose of 450 mgs...apparently that was too much as I reached bowel tolerance.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Ok who knows anything about colostrum and casien allergies? I'm wanting to try this with dd but after this weekend it is clear that I can't do that if it has more than a trace of milk protein in it.

This weekend I made some kefir and tried about 1/2 a cup worth. I felt fine but that night dd had her "I got something I shouldn't have" reaction at bedtime. That is the only change in my diet so I'm sure that was it. She went on to sleep horribly and have trouble getting to sleep for her nap the next day as well.







:

She seems to be fine w/ butter though so I think a trace would be ok.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Ds is having a bad itchy day today.







I switched enzymes a couple days ago from Virastop + Digest by Enzymedica to Thropps Elite Zyme pro. Could it be die off making him itchy? I am not experiencing any die off myself. DS is also very squirmy and a little hyper. If this is his reaction to the new enzymes does that mean they are not going to work out for us? I am taking about the same dosage as before just a different brand.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I'm a bit behind on this from being gone, but here are my thoughts on that link JaneS posted on the first page of this thread (the one that suggested that you don't necessarily need to eliminate foods to cure candida): after a few hours of research, I think there may be some basis to what they said, but I also think there are some things there are not entirely accurate.

For instance, I don't think fiber is necessary for good digestion. It depends on what you are eating--if you only eat good proteins and fats and have a healthy gut, you should not get constipated even if you don't eat any fiber (like the Eskimos). I also don't agree that low carb diets are damaging when pregnant or nursing--maybe if you don't eat any carbs, or the other foods you are eating aren't healthy, but otherwise they should be fine (again, the Eskimo example). Also, if you have candida overgrowth you probably have digestive issues, also, and many of the foods that are not allowed on an anti-candida diet are also very hard to digest, like grains, nuts, and (non-cultured) dairy, which isn't good for you even if they don't make candida worse.

But from stuff I've read on the candidasupport forum, and other places, it does seem that people who've had candida overgrowth tend to have difficulties when they add many new foods in, which does make me think they something more needs to be done so people can return to normalcy (a normal NT diet, not the SAD). Plus quite a few people on this forum have seen a lot of benefits from kefir, which supports the idea that you have to overwhelm the candida with good bacteria and yeast.

So this is my thought right now: the anti-candida diet I'm doing is helping, so I am going to continue it. But I don't want to be on it for a year and then realize when I try to add foods that I'm not as healed as I thought I was, so I'm going to do some "extra" stuff, also. I'm going to do the diet for a few weeks to normalize after my junk-food binge, and then I'm going to try introducing things like water kefirs and see what effect those have. I'm also going to try to introduce some of the illegal foods that are easier to digest, like buckwheat or brown rice. And I'm going to play around with pH testing and see if I think there is any validity to that theory.

This got kind of long, sorry...anyone have any thoughts on my ramblings?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Magnesium question: for those who supplement with it, how much do you take? I got some yesterday because I've been getting leg cramps at night and take the recommended dose of 450 mgs...apparently that was too much as I reached bowel tolerance.

I reach bowel tolerance w/only a little mag citrate too. Funny thing is, I get leg cramps at night when I DO take it. I know that my cal/mag balance must be out of whack so I've started taking my old cal/mag supp. which doesn't have much mag to begin with.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
So this is my thought right now: the anti-candida diet I'm doing is helping, so I am going to continue it. But I don't want to be on it for a year and then realize when I try to add foods that I'm not as healed as I thought I was, so I'm going to do some "extra" stuff, also. I'm going to do the diet for a few weeks to normalize after my junk-food binge, and then I'm going to try introducing things like water kefirs and see what effect those have. I'm also going to try to introduce some of the illegal foods that are easier to digest, like buckwheat or brown rice. And I'm going to play around with pH testing and see if I think there is any validity to that theory.

This got kind of long, sorry...anyone have any thoughts on my ramblings?

This is about where I'm at in my thinking of it. Matter of fact I've been giving dd buckwheat (only once every few weeks) and no reactions whatsoever.
Check out the tanalbit information on the last page. I'm going to add this in as well.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

I had some leg cramping the other night too. I found a list of common foods with their magnesium content.
http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/food...sium-foods.htm


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Annikate- have you thought about potassium?


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

What about dairy sensitivity with the Tanalbit?

I'm doing the ionic fizz. I can drink it 3x a day fine but if I were to drink that much all at once it wouldn't work.

With magnesium you need to build up slowly. Start taking it at night however small an ammount you need to not reach bowel tolerance. Then after a few days take that same ammount in the morning. Then increase your night dose, then the am dose by the same ammount, untill you are taking as much as you intend to. Most Americans need about 800 mg a day or more. Esp if you take supplimental calcium. I recently read that cramps in your left leg mean your calcium is off and cramps in your right leg mean your magnesium is off. (hope I got that right, I am slightly dyslexic







: ) But off can mean you are getting too much or too little so you need to play arround with it to figure out your right dose.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Wow - that's interesting Patty. My right leg always is the one to cramp. Firefaery, I'll be thinking about potassium now.







I eat a lot of bananas - - does that count?


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

I finally made an appt with the chiro/kinesiologist who is also a nutritionist. I see her tomorrow and I hope she can help me make sense of everything. If all goes well I will also take DS in to see her too.

Very interesting about which side the leg is cramping on. Mine was my left leg, I will make sure to ask tomorrow about mineral suppliments.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Firefaery,

The only dairy free yogurt starter I know of is ProGurt from www.GIProHealth.com

I think Custom Probiotics might have one too.

Nature's Way Reuteri has traces of milk.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

FF,

What dairy free bifidus are you using for the babe?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I am reading a *fascinating* book called _Impossible Cure: The Promise of Homeopathy_ by Amy L. Lansky, Ph.D. I highly, highly, highly recommend it. This woman is the mom of a formerly-autistic son who was cured by homeopathic medicine. She then became a homeopath herself.

I thought of you mamas because I read this from page 69:

Quote:

The next remedy we tried was Cocculus Indicus, the Indian cockle flower. It is well known for th treatment of people who are exhausted from nursing other family members and who tend to be overanxious about the health of others. I myself have also greatly benefited from this remedy.
Don't know about you, but this makes me want to RUN out and get some.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Annikate- IIRC strawberries and mushrooms are higher in potassium than bananas-so think about those too!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Life Start (Dairy Free) Powder

Natren

SIZE: 35g

PRICE: £ 14.95

H CODE: GGFO13738
M CODE: NP013

S CODE: NP013

I didn't know of another one....everything else has other strains. In fact I got one two weeks ago that I thought was safe, but when I went to use it I realized I was wrong. Natren Life Start Dairy Free Powder it is.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Ugh. I just got back from getting Nature's Way reuteri to use as a starter. I'm feeling lately like I can't catch a break.








:


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

*Cademyn* - I am with you on the balance in the diet. I think there is a lot of reason in the idea of giving the body a variety of good foods that compete with yeast. Something about Bee's diet feels too extreme to me. Im thinking I will try kefir too sometime this fall. Right now Im dealing with strange symptoms that Ive had off and on since I started this - its very disconcerting to have your body acting out and you're not sure if its *healing* or further invasion! I for one have had worse or unchanged symptoms since starting Bee's plan







:

Ok, I have a question for a friend. Her son (3) has had a swollen lymph node in his neck for a month. He had a head cold a month ago, and the node has stayed swollen. He went to his doc, who is usually unconcerned about most stuff, and this concerned her, She wants to put him on low dose abx (dont know for how long - a week?) and then see how its going. My friend doesnt want the abx, but if the node gets bigger they'll have to drain it... I know garlic would probably be good, but how much, and how to get it into him? Any other ideas? If she does decide to do the abx, what brand of probiotics would be best to give him high doses of starting asap? How much is a high dose for a 3 yr old (example, I have primadophilus childrens and a serving is 3 billion, I think. Would that be good, but say at 10 billion/day?)

JaneS - so bifidum is one to avoid beyond infancy? So if I have a blend with it, I should switch brands?

Thanks


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Chiropractic and craniosacral therapy for the lymph nose. They will both help it to drain (as will accupunture btw) very naturally.


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## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

Hydrotherapy on the affected node (water as hot as he can stand it, then cold water) but it might be difficult to do with a 3 year old. A mini trampoline (called a rebounder) would not only be fun but should help drain. I was told the important part of the rebounder is that a person needs to get the heels lower than the toes. This can be accomplished on stairs as well. Also inversion therapy is reportedly good for draining, and this is another fun thing to do for a 3 year old--hold him upside down for awhile a couple times a day.

I just had four lymph nodes pop up in my armpit (one every other day) about a month ago, scaring the dickens out of me. I wasn't sick, didn't feel *off* or anything. The only thing that changed was that I ate about 50 garden fresh tomatoes that week. In about 10 days, they were all gone. The previous paragraph is the advice I was given. I did the hydrotherapy when possible, and I sat upside down on the couch at least once a day.


----------



## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Thanks, Ill tell her. Any others?

*Firefaery* - I d be interested to hear about the acid/alkaline info you're learning. Particularly (but not limited to







: ), I ve heard that yeast likes an acid environment, so its good to get alkaline, but that good bugs like acid, so getting your GI acid for them is good. I spose I should worry about killing the bad guys first, and then worry about switching ph







.... however you do that. Also, coffee makes one acid, yes? I mean decaf - just the bean itself causes a more acidic ph, or is it the caffiene, or both. I dont touch caffiene but I like decaf. (yeah I know it has some caf in there) Thanks mama

Also for you yeasty mamas (and/or others with thoughts) - what do you think of the small ammount of starch in pill probiotics? Do you take them, do you think the benefit of the good bugs outweighs the detriment of a tsp of "fermented soy" "rice starch" etc? I decided this week to focus more on pb's since Im doing everything else strongly (but have *only* been taking rejuvelac), so I started a pill and have had interesting results - Im trying to decipher them, and adjust my plan, particularly in light of maybe not wanting bifidum.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyofPunkiePie*
Hydrotherapy on the affected node (water as hot as he can stand it, then cold water) but it might be difficult to do with a 3 year old. A mini trampoline (called a rebounder) would not only be fun but should help drain. I was told the important part of the rebounder is that a person needs to get the heels lower than the toes. This can be accomplished on stairs as well. Also inversion therapy is reportedly good for draining, and this is another fun thing to do for a 3 year old--hold him upside down for awhile a couple times a day.

I just had four lymph nodes pop up in my armpit (one every other day) about a month ago, scaring the dickens out of me. I wasn't sick, didn't feel *off* or anything. The only thing that changed was that I ate about 50 garden fresh tomatoes that week. In about 10 days, they were all gone. The previous paragraph is the advice I was given. I did the hydrotherapy when possible, and I sat upside down on the couch at least once a day.

Here's a great tip from our craniosacral therapist that you can do on your own:
Find the soft part behind the clavicle and gently do little "bounces" with the pad of your fingertip. Our therapist calls it the trampoline. She taught me how to do and and taught dd1 too.

This helps with healing, with lymph drainage, with teething . . . all kinds of things. Do it as often as you can without it being annoying. If the child doensn't like it then just rub gently downward instead of "bouncing".

I guarantee it'll help.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Okay, here's maybe a silly question:

DD's CDSA shows nothing for candida but she obviously has yeast/fungus issues since the following are off the charts:
gamma haemolytic streptococcus
alpha haemolytic streptococcus
citrobacter freindii
morganella morganii
enterobacter cloacae
klebsiella oxytoca
klebsiella pneumoniae

In researching these I've found that the things that work on these talk about these things like they are yeast.

Are they?

Are there different types of yeast besides just candida? And, if so, will the anti-candida diet work for these?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
This is about where I'm at in my thinking of it. Matter of fact I've been giving dd buckwheat (only once every few weeks) and no reactions whatsoever.
Check out the tanalbit information on the last page. I'm going to add this in as well.

I thought tanalbit wasn't safe for BF'ing...or did I mis-read that?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

firefaery--do you know of anything that's good for colon cleansing besides enemas or cleanses? A lot of the candida programs I've seen recommend one or the other, but I was wondering if there's other ways to cleanse the colon besides doing those. Or do you think healing the gut will naturally cleanse the colon? Also, what do you think of gallbladder cleanses?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

On the run-I'll be back.

Gall Bladder cleanses are fabulous

There are many kinds of yeast-candida is only one.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Ok who knows anything about colostrum and casien allergies? I'm wanting to try this with dd but after this weekend it is clear that I can't do that if it has more than a trace of milk protein in it.

This weekend I made some kefir and tried about 1/2 a cup worth. I felt fine but that night dd had her "I got something I shouldn't have" reaction at bedtime. That is the only change in my diet so I'm sure that was it. She went on to sleep horribly and have trouble getting to sleep for her nap the next day as well.







:

She seems to be fine w/ butter though so I think a trace would be ok.

My understanding with kefir is that the microbes break down the lactose during the first 12-24 hours and then they revert to breaking down casein (or maybe it's the reverse?). Anyway, after 24-48 hours, kefir is much much more digestible than milk (for those with intolerances).

I'd suggest letting it ferment with grains longer, then letting it continue to ferment for half day (or even a full day) once you've removed the grains.


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*

Magnesium question: for those who supplement with it, how much do you take? I got some yesterday because I've been getting leg cramps at night and take the recommended dose of 450 mgs...apparently that was too much as I reached bowel tolerance.

I used to need 2 tsp late in the afternoon, AND an epsom salt bath. Now I only need 1 tsp occasionally (but still the epsom salt bath). I suggest starting out with low doses and gradually bumping up.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I thought tanalbit wasn't safe for BF'ing...or did I mis-read that?

Pls. lmk if you remember where you read that. I was thinking of giving it to dd directly - though she is still b'feeding.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
On the run-I'll be back.

Gall Bladder cleanses are fabulous

There are many kinds of yeast-candida is only one.

So, do you think the anti-candida diet combats other types too? I never see mention of anything besides candida. I wonder just how *different* they are.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

There are some that are quite different. I had a "non-specific yeast" when I was tested. I had no candida, but lots and lots of systemic yeast. There isn't a TON out there in terms of ways to fight specific kinds of yeast, but there is some. I found ThreeLac was very effective for my case.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Life Start (Dairy Free) Powder

Natren

SIZE: 35g

PRICE: £ 14.95

H CODE: GGFO13738
M CODE: NP013

S CODE: NP013

I didn't know of another one....everything else has other strains. In fact I got one two weeks ago that I thought was safe, but when I went to use it I realized I was wrong. Natren Life Start Dairy Free Powder it is.

Where are you getting this... I thought Natren's Life Start was only with dairy? Their website says to use Bifido factor Dairy Free, but that is not B. infantis?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Okay, here's maybe a silly question:

DD's CDSA shows nothing for candida but she obviously has yeast/fungus issues since the following are off the charts:
gamma haemolytic streptococcus
alpha haemolytic streptococcus
citrobacter freindii
morganella morganii
enterobacter cloacae
klebsiella oxytoca
klebsiella pneumoniae

In researching these I've found that the things that work on these talk about these things like they are yeast.

Are they?

Are there different types of yeast besides just candida? And, if so, will the anti-candida diet work for these?

I know the klebsiella and citrobacter are anaerobic bacteria as DS has tested for those in past as well. Klebsiella seems to have been elminated by the SCD, that was last years bug on stool tests when DS was eating a lot of rice and GF grains on his Elimination/Rotation Diet. But seems to have been just replaced by other things

There are different types of yeasts and diff. types of candida as well.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets*
My understanding with kefir is that the microbes break down the lactose during the first 12-24 hours and then they revert to breaking down casein (or maybe it's the reverse?). Anyway, after 24-48 hours, kefir is much much more digestible than milk (for those with intolerances).

I'd suggest letting it ferment with grains longer, then letting it continue to ferment for half day (or even a full day) once you've removed the grains.

Patty,
Dom has more re: ripening kefir on his site.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*

JaneS - so bifidum is one to avoid beyond infancy? So if I have a blend with it, I should switch brands?


That is what the SCD says. I can't tell you if that is true or will work for you though!







:


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I'm a bit behind on this from being gone, but here are my thoughts on that link JaneS posted on the first page of this thread (the one that suggested that you don't necessarily need to eliminate foods to cure candida): after a few hours of research, I think there may be some basis to what they said, but I also think there are some things there are not entirely accurate.

For instance, I don't think fiber is necessary for good digestion. It depends on what you are eating--if you only eat good proteins and fats and have a healthy gut, you should not get constipated even if you don't eat any fiber (like the Eskimos). I also don't agree that low carb diets are damaging when pregnant or nursing--maybe if you don't eat any carbs, or the other foods you are eating aren't healthy, but otherwise they should be fine (again, the Eskimo example). Also, if you have candida overgrowth you probably have digestive issues, also, and many of the foods that are not allowed on an anti-candida diet are also very hard to digest, like grains, nuts, and (non-cultured) dairy, which isn't good for you even if they don't make candida worse.

But from stuff I've read on the candidasupport forum, and other places, it does seem that people who've had candida overgrowth tend to have difficulties when they add many new foods in, which does make me think they something more needs to be done so people can return to normalcy (a normal NT diet, not the SAD). Plus quite a few people on this forum have seen a lot of benefits from kefir, which supports the idea that you have to overwhelm the candida with good bacteria and yeast.

So this is my thought right now: the anti-candida diet I'm doing is helping, so I am going to continue it. But I don't want to be on it for a year and then realize when I try to add foods that I'm not as healed as I thought I was, so I'm going to do some "extra" stuff, also. I'm going to do the diet for a few weeks to normalize after my junk-food binge, and then I'm going to try introducing things like water kefirs and see what effect those have. I'm also going to try to introduce some of the illegal foods that are easier to digest, like buckwheat or brown rice. And I'm going to play around with pH testing and see if I think there is any validity to that theory.

This got kind of long, sorry...anyone have any thoughts on my ramblings?

Yes, I do think that may be true about fiber in Eskimos who dont' deal with antibx and chlorinated water and got great gut flora at birth and were EBF... etc etc.

Fiber actually feeds the beneficial bacteria. I've been reading several medical texts re: probiotics. Another interesting thing is that lactobacillus is actually a VERY TINY amount of our total gut flora! And 25% of people have absolutely none. This was one of the reasons why I'm gradually switching DS to kefir for the beneficial yeasts.

I do think some people with gut damage probably do need to be on a "special diet" simply b/c their guts are not working correctly and simply cannot digest the food properly. Until the balance starts to shift.

I have also read about ph is that it's your bile and gut flora that is the factor more than what you eat.... what you digest and the byproducts of that is what controls ph. For example, your blood ph is kept more alkaline by saturated fats correctly broken down by your bile acids. That's from a Price Pottenger newsletter back issue I have when I was researching calculus on teeth (that is caused by an acidic ph).

Sorry did that make sense? I'm going to be rushed lately. DS started school and my schedule is in a tizzy!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vaquitita*
hands in the mouth and finger chewing is a sign of yeast? my son does this all the time and i just figured it was normal...

ack! ds was doing this yesterday, stumbling around and giggling. (he's done this before) his poo has been mushy too. he hasn't really eaten anything new. he is 12mo and is eating more now, but still just meats and veggies with raw butter, and the occasional fruit. my diet hasn't really changed lately either, just been trying to really up the probiotic foods. hmm... next time he does it i'll have to record what he's eaten. try to find a pattern. could die off cause this too?

I forgot this could also be what's termed "abnormal fermentation" whereby the carbs are fermented in the gut and produce ethanol (alcohol). They ferment b/c they are not broken down properly. Then you get that drunk behavior. Fruit can definately do this, it does in my DS. Fructose turns to alcohol very easily. DS can only do ripe bananas and cooked pears with any success.


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I have also read about ph is that it's your bile and gut flora that is the factor more than what you eat.... what you digest and the byproducts of that is what controls ph. For example, your blood ph is kept more alkaline by saturated fats correctly broken down by your bile acids. That's from a Price Pottenger newsletter back issue I have when I was researching calculus on teeth (that is caused by an acidic ph).

Interesting, I was just reading about ph this a.m., and it said that candida does not like an alkaline environment, but good bugs dont either. So you are trying to get your body alkaline to kill the yeast, but then the good bugs dont have a hospitable environament to implant, which is why you can test negative for lactobacillus, for example, even when you're atking pb's. Until your ph is inviting, the good bugs dont really latch on, and yet you dont want to be acidic or the yeast will like it







: What I read said that taking pb's before 2-3 mos of antifungals and diet wont really do much. Im taking them anyway.

The other thing Ive been wondering about, in relation to Bee's diet, is the need for certain fiber for the good bugs to grow. What fiber are they eatin on bee's diet, broccoli/cellulose? I read a study where wheat fiber was found to be the most growth inducing for good bugs! Hello! Ill find the quote when I get a chance, but this just makes me think more about Susan Weed and the page JaneS cited at the beginnning of this thread.... Thoughts?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Fiber actually feeds the beneficial bacteria. I've been reading several medical texts re: probiotics. Another interesting thing is that lactobacillus is actually a VERY TINY amount of our total gut flora! And 25% of people have absolutely none. This was one of the reasons why I'm gradually switching DS to kefir for the beneficial yeasts.


OK, I'm confused--are you saying that most of the gut flora is not bacteria?


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
DD's CDSA shows nothing for candida but she obviously has yeast/fungus issues since the following are off the charts:
gamma haemolytic streptococcus
alpha haemolytic streptococcus
citrobacter freindii
morganella morganii
enterobacter cloacae
klebsiella oxytoca
klebsiella pneumoniae

In researching these I've found that the things that work on these talk about these things like they are yeast.

Are they?

Are there different types of yeast besides just candida? And, if so, will the anti-candida diet work for these?

There are different types of yeast besides Candida







Saccharomyces is a biggie (you might recall it from bread and beer). For a cursory overview of fungi (with DNA sequence info), you might check out http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/Taxonomy...hmode=1&unlock but know that NCBI is not the best place for Taxonomy. It should get you started though.

And now for a microbiology lesson:

gamma haemolytic streptococcus
alpha haemolytic streptococcus

apparently streptococci bacteria are divided into different groups depending on how they react to a blood culture on a plate of agar.

* Greenish discolouration of the media around the bacterial colony (alpha-haemolysis)
* Complete clearing of the red cells around the colony so that light could pass through the agar (beta-haemolysis)
* No effect on the red cells (non-haemolytic or gamma-haemolysis).

Streptococcus belongs to the gram positive bacteria (they turn color in the presence of gram stain). The bacteria are arranged in chains of varying lengths, with each cell being about 1 micrometer in diameter. They are non-motile, non-sporing, my be capsulate. Most of these critters are facultatively anaerobic but there are species that are strictly aerobic. They are catalase negative. Classification depends on the type of haemolysis seen on the blood agar. Strains which have soluble haemolysins (streptolysins O and S) will produce a clear zone of haemolysis on fresh blood agar media. This is known as beta-haemolysis and the organism is classified as beta-haemolysis streptococci. Those that cause a narrow zone of partial clearing and green coloration are called alpha-haemolysis streptococci. Those that produce no obvious changes around the colonies on blood agar are called non-haemolytic or gamma-haemolytic

It is normal for some Streptococcus species to be harbored in our bodies. These are bacteria, not fungi.

useful links:
http://www.nuigalway.ie/bac/resp_appendix.htm
http://tropej.oxfordjournals.org/cgi...stract/44/2/84
http://www.surgical-tutor.org.uk/def...trep.htm~right
http://www.bacteriamuseum.org/specie...ptococci.shtml
http://www.life.umd.edu/classroom/bs...eptococcus.htm
-------------

citrobacter freundii

This one sounds evil, being one of several microbes responsible for neonatal meningitis, along with other diseases in immunocompromised individuals. It is nearing complete resistance to a number of antibiotics. Again, these are bacteria, not fungi.

http://www.thelabrat.com/restriction...freundii.shtml
http://www.canarys-eye-view.org/cond...ofreundii.html
http://www.life.umd.edu/classroom/bs...cteriaceae.htm
--------------

morganella morganii

A cute little story here: http://web.umr.edu/~microbio/BIO221_..._morganii.html
http://web.umr.edu/~microbio/BIO221_...a_morganii.htm

This one used be called Proteus. This is another bacteria, not a fungus.

--------------

enterobacter cloacae

This one is also a bacteria, part of the normal human flora but can become opportunistic and cause UTIs. It is biochemically similar in some regards to Klebsiella.
http://medic.med.uth.tmc.edu/path/00001499.htm
http://www.thelabrat.com/restriction...rcloacae.shtml
-------------

klebsiella oxytoca
klebsiella pneumoniae

These are both bacteria.

http://www.personalmd.com/news/klebsiella_102299.shtml
http://medic.med.uth.tmc.edu/path/00001506.htm
http://www.bacteriamuseum.org/species/Kpneumoniae.shtml
http://www.life.umd.edu/classroom/bs...Klebsiella.htm


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
OK, I'm confused--are you saying that most of the gut flora is not bacteria?

It IS bacteria, just not all one species (i.e., Lactobacillus).

Here's some more fun reading:

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HT...toncolumn1.htm
http://www.bmb.leeds.ac.uk/mbiology/...flora/gut.html
and

http://www.newsdesk.umd.edu/scitech/...ArticleID=1284


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Ok who knows anything about colostrum and casien allergies? I'm wanting to try this with dd but after this weekend it is clear that I can't do that if it has more than a trace of milk protein in it.

This weekend I made some kefir and tried about 1/2 a cup worth. I felt fine but that night dd had her "I got something I shouldn't have" reaction at bedtime. That is the only change in my diet so I'm sure that was it. She went on to sleep horribly and have trouble getting to sleep for her nap the next day as well.







:

She seems to be fine w/ butter though so I think a trace would be ok.

Kirkman Colostrum Gold is casein free I believe.

Purity Farms ghee is organic, grass fed and casein free.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

I "de-cow"ed our kefir grains for DS (this is very unscientific btw, based on nothing but my goofy intuition) by making successive batches of goat kefir, which I'm drinking.

Except this morning in our rush to get out the door for school I gave him some of the wrong batch (the first one) !!! I'm starting him on a little at a time added to his yogurt. Well didn't he end up with zits on his wee chubby cheeks.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Stay tuned for Friday when we test both cow and goat's milk antigen... please pray for us.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum*
This may sound weird... would there be benefits to making yogurt out of BM for DS?

Try both making it raw (only heating to 100) and pasteurized (heating it to 185 then cooling to 100-110). The baby spit up taste may be due to other organisms in your milk, including yeasts. It won't gel b/c the proteins are already broken down but it does have the lactose to grow probiotics.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *krissi*
I'd think it was yeast for sure. The way we tell when DD's yeast is flaring is poo changes and she starts acting truly drunk, giggling and stumbling around and waking up at night giggling and being in a state that she doesn't seem aware of her surroundings. Then it alternates with almost being like a hangover when she has a headache, hates bright lights and wants no human contact...greatly interfering with therapy.

Actually DD is not the slightest bit potty trained and we were still able to do an OAT. I stick urine collection bags in her diaper, which she hates and doesn't work terribly well but we can usually get barely enough for labwork. I know some OATs require full first morning urine etc but maybe it varies by the lab. The one we did was as a part of the Metametrix ION panel but it's available individually also I think...they just needed 12 mls of first morning urine which we got from an overnight urine collection bag.

Thanks








I'm going to see the DAN/AAEM dr.'s plan for us through and then if that doesn't work ask for the OAT. He says stool testing has always been accurate for him.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Wow *Jennifer*! Thanks for all that information!


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Its been a busy day here!

Jane-how are you testing for cow/goat milk antigens? I hope your DS does not have a bad reaction...keeping my fingers crossed for him.

Jennifer- Holy cow that is a lot of information you have given us! I'm not sure I even understand a tiny bit of it







: . Do you have a reader's digest version for the mushy-brained such as me?

I went to a new chiropractor/nutritionist and aside from my back and neck feeling better she had many suggestions about diet and DS's reactions. She suggested going about things from a blood type diet perspective ( I am 'O' and DS is 'B'.) I need to eat more for his blood type. I don't know anything about this but here is a list of foods that I need to avoid for him that I have been eating on SCD: COCONUT OIL (never would have thought to cut this out), chicken, pork, shrimp, cashews, olives. She said I should use black walnut to help get rid of the yeast, here is a short excerpt on its uses:
pad

Quote:

Black Walnut Hulls, Nature's Way 500mg - 100 Caps
pad
Black walnut hulls contain a substance which helps the body eliminate parasites. Although this is the primary purpose of this herb, it is also used for poison oak, ringworm and skin ailments. It has antifungal properties and is also said to promote bowel regularity.
Has anyone used black walnut? I need to research to double check if it is safe for BF. She also mentioned that dairy (except DCCC) is a no-no for me as well as wheat which could be why I see vast improvements on SCD. Next week I am taking in all my suppliments so she can do muscle testing. If there is no improvement after these measures then I will bring in DS. Lots to think about. I feel a renewed energy for this whole LONG process.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Never used it-all my literature says to avoid it in BF. IT's also helpful with pinworms and other parasites.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Never used it-all my literature says to avoid it in BF. IT's also helpful with pinworms and other parasites.

Thanks, I was just reading about this on kellymom.


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum*
Jennifer- Holy cow that is a lot of information you have given us! I'm not sure I even understand a tiny bit of it







: . Do you have a reader's digest version for the mushy-brained such as me?


in the microbiology lesson post:

Annikate's dd has a bunch of bacteria in her intestines and poop. No yeast, just bacteria - most of them belonging to anaerobic bacteria (not requiring oxygen to live). Most of the microbes are species that one would expect to find in human gut flora. Some can become opportunistic and pathogenic under the "right" conditions (e.g., antibiotic use and immunocompromised situations). Some of them are responsible for meningitis, UTIs, blah blah blah.

in my follow-up post:

A study in Science (or was it Nature?) magazine (both are equally well respected in the community) this spring took human stool samples (oh, now THAT would have been a fun study), extracted DNA, and ran it through a fancy schmancy (expensive) machine to see what critters were in there. They found 1000s of different genes belonging to a whole poopload of species/strains. Freaked the poop out of the scientists, I guess, to warrant publishing in Science (or Nature). Actually, the cooler part is the function of the different genes, but I won't bore y'all with that part. Can't wait for the follow-up experiment.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets*
in the microbiology lesson post:

Annikate's dd has a bunch of bacteria in her intestines and poop. No yeast, just bacteria - most of them belonging to anaerobic bacteria (not requiring oxygen to live). Most of the microbes are species that one would expect to find in human gut flora. Some can become opportunistic and pathogenic under the "right" conditions (e.g., antibiotic use and immunocompromised situations). Some of them are responsible for meningitis, UTIs, blah blah blah.

And since dd's bacteria levels for these nasty things were off the charts, I'm thinking she needs something more aggressive than just 24 hour yogurt. Anybody have any ideas?

I'm thinking of looking at that super expensive stuff (I think Patty?) posted about a couple of months ago. Was it Custom Probiotics? Gonna see if I can find that link . . .


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Ok if the poop test is so good why did it show nothing for my dd?? No yeast, no bacteria, (except a low ammount of bifidus). Did we get the wrong test? I just did the yeast and bacteria part of the CDSA for her. I haven't gotten me tested.

It has tons of info on everything under the sun that could treat candida. Complete Candida Yeast Guidebook. It just has a ton of info. It isn't so much a concise "follow our program and you will be well" as a "here's your options and the benefits and drawbacks of each one" It still contains the authors opinion but she even puts in a bunch of things that she doesn't think work for you to mull over.

Oh and she said that Dr Terry Willard, herbalist and founder of Wild Rose COllege in Canada found that he could culture and grow candida with stevia.







That is the only sweetener we have been using. Not sure what to do now.

One more thing. DD has a birthday party on Sat. She is 2.5 and the birthday girl will be 3. She is really, really into birthdays right now for some reason so I really want to go but I'm stressed about food. I plan to bring all her food and I want to make a cake of some sort. I need some ideas on how to make a cake w/o dairy or honey (or all that other non scd legal stuff) that will still taste and look like a cake for dd. I'm thinking about doing splenda







: and making some sort of a nut cake. Any other ideas? I'm generally opposed to splend and other artificial sweeteners but I haven't had any luck with using stevia in baking and I don't have a ton of time to be experiementing.

I also need an idea for the frosting....


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
And since dd's bacteria levels for these nasty things were off the charts, I'm thinking she needs something more aggressive than just 24 hour yogurt. Anybody have any ideas?

I'm thinking of looking at that super expensive stuff (I think Patty?) posted about a couple of months ago. Was it Custom Probiotics? Gonna see if I can find that link . . .

Yea I posted it but I'm not sure what it was now.







:


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Found it!
http://www.customprobiotics.com/testimonials_a.htm


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

For anyone curious about Eat right for your blood type here is a good food list:
http://www.dadamo.com/typebase4/typeindexer.htm


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets*
in the microbiology lesson post:

Annikate's dd has a bunch of bacteria in her intestines and poop. No yeast, just bacteria - most of them belonging to anaerobic bacteria (not requiring oxygen to live). Most of the microbes are species that one would expect to find in human gut flora. Some can become opportunistic and pathogenic under the "right" conditions (e.g., antibiotic use and immunocompromised situations). Some of them are responsible for meningitis, UTIs, blah blah blah.

in my follow-up post:

A study in Science (or was it Nature?) magazine (both are equally well respected in the community) this spring took human stool samples (oh, now THAT would have been a fun study), extracted DNA, and ran it through a fancy schmancy (expensive) machine to see what critters were in there. They found 1000s of different genes belonging to a whole poopload of species/strains. Freaked the poop out of the scientists, I guess, to warrant publishing in Science (or Nature). Actually, the cooler part is the function of the different genes, but I won't bore y'all with that part. Can't wait for the follow-up experiment.

Ahh, yes this is what I needed.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Ok if the poop test is so good why did it show nothing for my dd?? No yeast, no bacteria, (except a low ammount of bifidus). Did we get the wrong test? I just did the yeast and bacteria part of the CDSA for her. I haven't gotten me tested.

Yeah, and WHY do they only test for CANDIDA????? I don't get this. If yeast is such a bad thing then why not test for multiple types?


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum*
I went to a new chiropractor/nutritionist and aside from my back and neck feeling better she had many suggestions about diet and DS's reactions.

My ND and I have been chatting about the connection between back health and gut health. The vagus nerve constantly sends messages between the gut and brain. Read http://www.aikidoaus.com.au/dojo/docs/2nd_braina.htm for an NY Times description of this "2nd brain". For the more hardcore, you might check out this tacky but informative website: http://sky.bsd.uchicago.edu/lcy_ref/...mpathetic.html . Indeed, the connection between gut disorders and brain disorders is becoming increasingly accepted (http://gut.bmjjournals.com/cgi/repri...pl_4/iv78.pdf).

Some fairly recent work is now showing that there are actual nerves/neurons connecting the gut (and other organs) to the lumbar-sacral region of the spinal cord. (e.g., http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...dopt=Abstract).

Has anyone here noticed improvement in their gut after therapeutic work on their back?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Sadly, no. And I have been getting work on my back (chirp and CST) for years with practitioners who are always ahead of the curve and have been talking about this for as long as I've known them. It may have helped move things along with my dietary changes, but there was no noticable differece before I modified that.


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## krissi (Sep 24, 2004)

Quote:

Ok if the poop test is so good why did it show nothing for my dd?? No yeast, no bacteria, (except a low ammount of bifidus). Did we get the wrong test? I just did the yeast and bacteria part of the CDSA for her.
I did a quick Google to make sure I wasn't nuts. Here's a website that explained pretty much what the DAN told me about the test not being too reliable:
http://www.ei-resource.org/labtests.asp

Quote:

Although the CDSA does test for yeast and hence is often used if a Candida overgrowth is a suspected problem, many top functional medicine doctors agree that this particular test is not particularly reliable for this purpose as yeast can be found in the stool of perfectly healthy people and it will often give false negative results, i.e. indicate that no yeast were detected when in fact the patient DOES have a significant intestinal overgrowth. One reason for this is because overgrowth of yeast is predominantly a problem in the small intestine and since the stool is formed in the colon, the yeast do not get caught up in it, and hence show up on examination.
So that's just why I wouldn't put too much stock into a negative for yeast on that test...if you're seeing signs of yeast that's probably what it is. DD's D-Arabinitol (yeast metabolite not naturally occurring in the body) was off the charts at the same time as the CDSA came back negative for yeast.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Oh, mamas. It's been a while since I've been here. My dd is still having problems with her digestions/yeast/eczema. We manage to control the eczema flares by avoiding dairy, but soy is a mild culprit, too, and that's been harder to avoid (or maybe I've just been too lazy <sigh>).

Anyway, dd's poops are pure liquid with chunky food in them. It's been like this for at least 2 mths. We've moved and are finally getting into a routine, and it just hit me yesterday that this is not a fluke. She is just not digesting properly and she has a bit of a yeast rash, too.

I just ordered Culturelle (lactobacillus gg) and Primadophilus Reuteri and Enzymedica Candidase. Dd is is still bfed, but she doesn't eat many solids. I can get her to eat a few bites of oatmeal or eggs. She does like meat. I'm going to work on vegetables this week. I need to try some new ones because she's not too keen on the ones we've been giving her. I just really want her to be okay.







Dh is on board now so that helps. We're going to get the ingredients to make our own yogurt this week. Hopefully, I can get dd to eat some of it. I bought some goat yogurt at HF and she didn't really like it.

Anyway, I'm back on this thread. I'm a little







: but







in any case


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

I think combining the blood type diet with SCD would be next to impossible. Many of the SCD legal foods are not allowed on the blood type diet, and many of the blood type diet OK foods are not SCD legal. (eg. some grains and pinto beans, are for type O, but lentils and cauliflower, which are SCD legal, are not allowed with type O. Also, no blood type is supposed to consume coconut -- seems to go against the ancestral eating aspect, doesn't it?). Also, while cabbage and cauliflower are not allowed for type O, Kale and broccoli are, even though these are all mustard family plants.

I had a question, but I've forgotten it now.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Yeah, and WHY do they only test for CANDIDA????? I don't get this. If yeast is such a bad thing then why not test for multiple types?

I had a longer post that I did last night but it's unfinished at home and I'm now at work. But before I forget, the short answer is two-fold: (a) Candida is the most likely fungal species to be present in the gut (most of the other human fungal pathogens colonize other parts of the body) and (b) because "they" don't know all that is in the gut, they can't really look for it (*).

I did (re)learn last night that we need to be careful about terminology. Some fungal species live double lives - some part as "hyphal" and as "yeast" (spores). Think of "yeast" as the form that you would find in the bread yeast from a jar. And the hyphal form is what enables those cute fairy rings of mushrooms to pop up in your yard - the hyphae connect all the different patches of 'shrooms (or "woof", as ds calls them). It is the hyphal form that gives us leaky guts. Lots of cool info at http://doctorfungus.org

(*) We only just recently developed techniques to sequence DNA without knowing the species a priori - and even then, not many centers are doing large scale sequencing (which is what it would take to fully sequence human gut flora). Also, the sequencing centers have biases right now towards "charismatic organisms" (as the conservation biologists call them) - the warm fuzzy things that are meaningful to people. This is YOUR (U.S.) dime, after all, that's paying for the research...


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Pattyla said:


> Ok if the poop test is so good why did it show nothing for my dd?? No yeast, no bacteria, (except a low ammount of bifidus). Did we get the wrong test? I just did the yeast and bacteria part of the CDSA for her. I haven't gotten me tested.
> 
> It has tons of info on everything under the sun that could treat candida. Complete Candida Yeast Guidebook. It just has a ton of info. It isn't so much a concise "follow our program and you will be well" as a "here's your options and the benefits and drawbacks of each one" It still contains the authors opinion but she even puts in a bunch of things that she doesn't think work for you to mull over.
> 
> ...


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Any ideas on calorie-laden SCD legal foods for a picky eater? DH is worried about ds's slenderness, and wants me to introduce grains to put weight on him. He is skinny as a rail. And eats tons of fruit, but doesn't like eggs or things made with nut butter, or very much meat, or veggies. Loves honey. Sigh.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

EBG said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
> ...


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
Any ideas on calorie-laden SCD legal foods for a picky eater? DH is worried about ds's slenderness, and wants me to introduce grains to put weight on him. He is skinny as a rail. And eats tons of fruit, but doesn't like eggs or things made with nut butter, or very much meat, or veggies. Loves honey. Sigh.

Since we cut out fruit dd gained 1 lb in 3 weeks. When we cut out all dairy she gained 1 lb in 1 week. She has always been skinny for her height. I think that the foods that were hurting her gut made it impossible for her to gain weight. She actually might be normal now. (she also gained an inch in height in those 3 weeks after we cut out fruit and more height when we cut out dairy, I'm not sure how much though.)


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

OK, I'm off cabbage juice. My DH and MIL just couldn't handle the smell. I stink.







They don't complain about garlic but they do mention I smell like kimchi. And they don't mean it as a compliment.
So any other way??? The yogurt wasn't doing much, I'm not sure how much the rejuvelac was doing this past month... maybe I'll give kefir another try.
I put it in the freezer in a plastic bag. Did I kill it? I didn't follow Dom's instructions. You think I can still bring it back?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I did it! The coconut yogurt was a success. Unfortunately I have to take dh's word for it until I get me a df starter. I should be ordering today. I'm so happy! I can't stand yogurt, but I will put it into a smoothie. Kiddos will gobble it up though!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Pattyla-same here. Dd was FTT until SCD. What happened was the diet cut out her major allergens. Kids frequently are incapable of gaining weight with damaged guts.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Pattyla said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *EBG*
> ...


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

No fruit at all. Not even bananas..0


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I make a raw banana coconut muffin with a buttery spread (no butter), what's in the cooked version?

I'm so sad about eating some cooked foods again. I don't know what the point is if I can't use eggs or dairy. What in god's name am I supposed to be making?







That's the GOOD stuff that make the treats! I'm not used to cooking without butter (which was always clarified, and this babe can't even do that without two days of puking and not pooping) and what in the world can I bake without eggs? I can't even make a friggin meatloaf! Yar. (that was a pirate sound BTW) Raw was so much easier. Sigh.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Anyone here have an idea for boneless chicken thighs that are in my fridge? I am dh-less today and need to figure out an easy dinner...The only thing I know how to make is a honey mustard sauce. That's losing it's appeal quickly!







:


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Anyone here have an idea for boneless chicken thighs that are in my fridge? I am dh-less today and need to figure out an easy dinner...The only thing I know how to make is a honey mustard sauce. That's losing it's appeal quickly!







:

Just season them with salt, pepper and marjoram, or cumin, paprika, put them in a baking dish and bake at 350 for about an hour. Sinde they have no skin put a pat uf butter or olive oil on the top, or coconut oil.

Or make broth and the cooked meat can be taken off the bone and sauteed in butter/CO and spices (salt, cumin, chili powder) with peppers and onions for fajitas.

Sorry, my coconut-banana muffins have eggs. I just use very finely ground coconut (about 1 cup- or to make it not firm but not liquid either when mixed), bananas 1-2, 3 eggs and 1/2 tsp (I think) baking soda.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

I think somebody here found out how to use gelatin for baking instead of eggs. Step forward, please and share.







:


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Pattyla--there's a recipe on pecanbread.com for banana nut butter muffins that don't contain any honey. They are pretty good and have a sweet taste--maybe you could either call them cupcakes. And maybe you could just use plain nut butter for frosting.

EBG--how much CO are you using a day? I think for me CO is a stronger anti-fungal than garlic. I take 5 cloves of garlic a day divided between breakfast & lunch. I eat about 2 Tbsp. of CO at breakfast and 5-6 at lunch. Since we got back from vacation I've been having die-off symptoms shortly after lunch, and I think they must be due to the large amount of CO I take at lunch, since I take garlic in the morning, also, and don't have die-off after that.

What about just using lacto-fermented foods instead of rejuvelac? Or maybe try water kefirs and see if those work for you.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I found a new SBO candida product--what does everyone think?
http://www.flora-balance.com/Flora-Balance.htm


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Pattyla--there's a recipe on pecanbread.com for banana nut butter muffins that don't contain any honey. They are pretty good and have a sweet taste--maybe you could either call them cupcakes. And maybe you could just use plain nut butter for frosting.

EBG--how much CO are you using a day? I think for me CO is a stronger anti-fungal than garlic. I take 5 cloves of garlic a day divided between breakfast & lunch. I eat about 2 Tbsp. of CO at breakfast and 5-6 at lunch. Since we got back from vacation I've been having die-off symptoms shortly after lunch, and I think they must be due to the large amount of CO I take at lunch, since I take garlic in the morning, also, and don't have die-off after that.

What about just using lacto-fermented foods instead of rejuvelac? Or maybe try water kefirs and see if those work for you.

We can't do bananas.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

If anyone's interested, the guy at Custom Probiotics is very knowledgeable and will help you choose one suited for you. I emailed him dd's CDSA results and he emailed back right away w/some info and asked me to call him for more.

I just ordered some and it should be here Friday.







Not looking forward to the die off though.


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## milkamama (May 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Found it!
http://www.customprobiotics.com/testimonials_a.htm

hi,
trying to keep up with the thread...ton of great info. i wanted to say i did order a non-dairy blend of probiotics from custom. i would love to say they are working wonderfully (they were so stinkin' expensive), but i honestly can't tell. we are on a modified scd (taking a lot from scd into account, but adding certain illegals hoping for weight gain in ds), are doing enzymes, taking probiotics and increasing our raw/fermented foods. ds seems to be on a healing path...how much of it is the probiotic...who can tell?

i did receive prompt service from them and ds, who has struggled with other probiotics, does well on this blend. good luck.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
Any ideas on calorie-laden SCD legal foods for a picky eater? DH is worried about ds's slenderness, and wants me to introduce grains to put weight on him. He is skinny as a rail. And eats tons of fruit, but doesn't like eggs or things made with nut butter, or very much meat, or veggies. Loves honey. Sigh.

If you were to introduce grains, maybe quinoa? I've actually been able to eat Trader Joe's dark rye sourdough bread on rare occasion, as I, too, need the calories for nursing, and am dairy-free.

Have you made Jane's cashew butter cake or choco nut cake for him or the midas gold pancakes? Those taste close enough to the real thing to me. DH even loves them and he gets to eat real carbs.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*

It has tons of info on everything under the sun that could treat candida. Complete Candida Yeast Guidebook. It just has a ton of info. It isn't so much a concise "follow our program and you will be well" as a "here's your options and the benefits and drawbacks of each one" It still contains the authors opinion but she even puts in a bunch of things that she doesn't think work for you to mull over.

Oh and she said that Dr Terry Willard, herbalist and founder of Wild Rose COllege in Canada found that he could culture and grow candida with stevia.







That is the only sweetener we have been using. Not sure what to do now.

Thanks for the book recommendation, I've placed it on hold at my library.









Seriously? Stevia is all we use...I'd like to read more about that.







:


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Anyone here have an idea for boneless chicken thighs that are in my fridge? I am dh-less today and need to figure out an easy dinner...The only thing I know how to make is a honey mustard sauce. That's losing it's appeal quickly!







:

I've been making this lately:

tomatoes (deseeded), avacado, 1 slice of onion pressed through garlic press, 1 clove garlic pressed through garlic press, juice of 1 lemon or lime, s+P to taste - whiz in food processor to coarsely chop. Add cooked chicken, pulse 1-2x, voila! Southwest chicken salad. If you pulse it too much it becomes a dip, but is still delicious


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *milkamama*
hi,
trying to keep up with the thread...ton of great info. i wanted to say i did order a non-dairy blend of probiotics from custom. i would love to say they are working wonderfully (they were so stinkin' expensive), but i honestly can't tell. we are on a modified scd (taking a lot from scd into account, but adding certain illegals hoping for weight gain in ds), are doing enzymes, taking probiotics and increasing our raw/fermented foods. ds seems to be on a healing path...how much of it is the probiotic...who can tell?

i did receive prompt service from them and ds, who has struggled with other probiotics, does well on this blend. good luck.

Good to know! Thanks.


----------



## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

How could this be die-off related? Anyone else with this experience. The first two weeks of my program were the absolute worst, but then I got into a groove (relatively), with anxiety coming and going, and then I added some things last week, and then again yesterday, and my anxiety has been returning since last week. On the up side, I have had symptom reduction, which makes me think die-off, but physiologically, I dont get it. What's the connection, and are there any vitamins/minerals I might benefit from. Im wary of taking *too much* mag., as I want to feel energetic enough to exercise (to help with the anxiety - lol). I have been taking 600mg/day, with 600mg cal., but was doing some reading on it today and its better to take on an empty stomach (I havent been), and Im not clear on the relationship btwn mag. and cal. Dont they inhibit each other or something? I literally open my eyes in the morning (interestingly, I sleep plenty) and feel the anxiety creep into my body; warm face, sleepyness, mind that wont stop.

*Annikate* - let us know about the new pb's. What do you notice/expect for die-off? I ask b/c I started new pb's a week ago and the anxiety started

*Cademyn* - hmmm ... that flora balance (name?) looks promising - maybe too much so. 28 days huh? I would love for you to try it and report









On another note - I have suspected, since learning all that I have in the past 6 wks, that ds has some digestive, maybe yeast issues. He has never tolerated milk, although is fine with other dairy. His growth and behavior are great, BUT, he had abx at birth (gbs+ and lack of education







: ) and again at 6 mos for an ear infection (ugh - im embarresed to even say it - i clearly didnt know!). So I started him on 24hr. yogurt, reuteri cap/day, sprouted bread (its a start), and cod liver oil this week. The first few days of the reuteri his poops looked great - solid (they've always been loose, milk just makes his bm/sac inflamed and swollen). Then after two days of solid (2 days od 24 hr yogurt) he had major diarhea yesterday (4x, looser each time) By the end of the day he had a swollen flaming bottom. It went away by this a.m. with burts bees, but there were too small sores. Dh looked at them this afternoon and said, "now that looks like yeast" (he's the md who has called what Im doing my 'yeast infatuation', although he's gotten MUCH better). So what Im wondering/suspecting is, this is die-off diarhea from the yogurt and I shouldnt stop it. Of course he has yeast, given his hx and mommy. At first I thought, 'no more yogurt, just the reuteri' (the yogurt is cultured with childrens primadophilus - green jar), but like I said, store yogurt has never caused this. Should I stick with the 24hr yogurt? Have any of you/your dc's had this when they started prob's? On a positive note, he has seemed more happy than usual this week







:

Thanks for reading this lonngggg post. Ill stop typing now


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
I think combining the blood type diet with SCD would be next to impossible. Many of the SCD legal foods are not allowed on the blood type diet, and many of the blood type diet OK foods are not SCD legal. (eg. some grains and pinto beans, are for type O, but lentils and cauliflower, which are SCD legal, are not allowed with type O. Also, no blood type is supposed to consume coconut -- seems to go against the ancestral eating aspect, doesn't it?). Also, while cabbage and cauliflower are not allowed for type O, Kale and broccoli are, even though these are all mustard family plants.

I had a question, but I've forgotten it now. 

It is difficult to combine the two diets, but I am following SCD and avoiding those foods that are bad for us, which isn't that many more than before. At this point I am willing to try anything. Plus the fact that I am allowing myself a little sweet treat here and there I am a lot happier







. In 24 hrs since I have been avoiding his list of bad foods his ring around his anus is almost completely gone and his cheeks are healing with no new red bumps showing themselves. It is way too soon to say it is successful but the results seem promising. I don't know about the science behind the diet yet but it does seem strange that coconut is bad for everyone.

*EGG Substitute*
Recipe by Maggie Severns

Recipe:
1 egg = 1 tsp gelatin, 3 Tbs cold water and 7 tsp boiling water
2 eggs= 2 tsp gelatin, 1/3 C. cold water and 1/2 C boiling Water
3 eggs= 1 Tbs gelatin, 1/2 C. cold water and 1/2 C Boiling water

Before Baking:
1. Place, cold water in bowl
2. Sprinkle gelatin to soften. Mix thoroughly with spoon.
3. Add boiling water until desolved.
4. Place in freezer to thicken while mixing cake or cookies or refrigerate
(refrigeration takes a little longer)
5. When time to add eggs, take thickened gelatin from freezer or refrigerator and beat until it's frothy.. <---------- THIS IS MOST IMPORTANT!!

6. Add to recipe instead of eggs.

I have not tried this substitute yet...


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Caedmyn,

I don't really keep track of how much CO I take. A spoonful here and there.... I used to take about 2-3 tbs and besides making my face worse it made me really sick at night. One time when I had too much before going to bed, I woke up in the middle of the night with a huge hard belly and pain and I was so sick! After I had BM things calmed down but then I decided not to take so much any more and so far so good. Now I don't know if it was die-off, because I didn't have stomach issues with the yeast before, just itchies and rashes, which the garlic definitely made worse so I know that IS die-off. Maybe it was just too much fat at one time and lack of enzymes, however CO shouldn't need anything, right?
garlic: Right now I eat 6-12 cloves when I'm at home and I don't have die-off at this time so I wonder if I need more but I don't think I can handle any more. One of the guys who's doing Bee's diet was taking like 15-16 bulbs to get some results.
I'll try candizyme (I won a bid on e-bay, yay) during my vacation and see if it does anything. Other than that, I'm thinking oregano oil since I'm not nursing.

Yeast in DD; my 3-yo still has a red ring plus she gets these whiteheads on her butt. What is that? Yeast also? Her diet has been bad lately as DH is sabotaging my efforts, so yesterday she was fed pizza and straight OJ and salted cashews at MIL's. I slipped an enzyme in her drink but that's not gonna eliminate the sugar load. Needless to say eczema showed up again today.
I don't know what to do!!!! I've been putting CO on her bum... She doesn't seem to eat enough yogurt any more... I can't afford special probiotics. Her enzymes are running out...and she just wants to eat bananas all day. Her behavior is horrible, lately she's been throwing several tantrums a day. refuses to eat real food, just wants fruit and junk that DH eats.
My 1-yo is a little better-off as I can control her diet better but she also has diaper yeast issues.
Burts Bees actually works really well, I also combine it with CO. It works better than CO itself.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

So, Patty, what does dd eat now that she's on dairy free, fruit free SCD?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
So, Patty, what does dd eat now that she's on dairy free, fruit free SCD?

Veggies, nuts, meat, eggs (I try to limit the nuts)

Last night she had a mild reaction to the carrots we had with dinner I think so those are out now.







I'm assuming that this means that squash is out too. I just bought a huge Blue Hubbard squash at the farmers market. I love squash.

I just need to get it to where she isn't reacting to anything, partly so that we can get some sleep. We are so, so, so tired. Emotionally even more than physically.

I gave her kombucha and colostrum with lunch today. I think one of those didn't agree with her, or perhaps she was still working the carrots out of her system. Man I hate these guessing games.


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## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

Don't know if flax is allowed on your diet...

1 TBSP ground flax seeds
3 TBSP hot or boiling water
Mix together till it gels
This is the equivalent of one egg


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

But will that work in pies? Meatloaf? Meatballs? Custards?







: The flax would be my preference and I've used it successfully before...I'm just WAY too poor to be experimenting at this point.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Patty-hugs. It is so hard.


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## mirthfulmum (Mar 3, 2003)

Hi







:.

So I'm thinkin I might just belong here. I've been having stomach/gut problems for the past 3 months. I was going







: trying to figure out what it was. But now it looks like it's been narrowed down to yeast. Ugh!

Now It's looking like I'm going to have to go against my natrual food relationship of it looks good eat it. I'm not a bih junk food person, but I've also never been one to restrict myself *sigh*.

But I am happy to find a whole group here of women offering up support and advice. Thanks for the link caedmyn.

One question, can I pass the yeast onto my kids?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*Patty:*

What about glycerine? That is very sweet but technically an oil not a sugar. We use the Fronteir no alcohol vanilla extract made with it. But I think NOW has food quality glycerine in a big bottle. I've never cooked with it though...


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*Saskiasmom,*

RE: anxiety

Is this new for you? I think this can be both the metabolites released constantly from yeast/bad bacteria as well as their exotoxins (or is it endotoxins?) released when they die off. Consider increasing your vitamin C to bowel tolerance to aid liver in detox.

Yes, cal/mag is excellent taken at night. Calcium is generally calming as well. You need mag. to absorb calcium. If your diet is high in dairy, it might be just the mag. you need.

RE: your DS

Sounds like what we go thru... trying to figure out die off vs. a reaction. I think you should cut back on the yogurt and go more slowly. How much did he have? Going faster with it just overwhelms the immune system and is not beneficial in the long run.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mirthfulmum*
Hi







:.

So I'm thinkin I might just belong here. I've been having stomach/gut problems for the past 3 months. I was going







: trying to figure out what it was. But now it looks like it's been narrowed down to yeast. Ugh!

Now It's looking like I'm going to have to go against my natrual food relationship of it looks good eat it. I'm not a bih junk food person, but I've also never been one to restrict myself *sigh*.

But I am happy to find a whole group here of women offering up support and advice. Thanks for the link caedmyn.

One question, can I pass the yeast onto my kids?

Welcome!









You mean can you pass yeast on to your kids now or could you have passed it on at their birth and thru breastfeeding? The first is no, and the second is most definitely.


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Thanks *JaneS* - the anxiety is new. Ive had depression on and off over the years, but never anxiety, and never understood how people could say they had depression but experienced it as anxiety? Anyway, my intuition about it is that, besides the fear and sadness this whole experience has brought, the lack of carbs, which can have a sedative effect, is causing the opposite, i.e. without any carbs to even me out physiologically, Im buzzin' (toxically). And/or there is something in grains (vitamin/mineral) that Im not getting anymore. I DONT like it.

As for ds, he had a nice solid poo yesterday after that day of runs, so Ill keep up the yogurt. he gets about 1c day, plus his reuteri pill


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Every time we eat out I get a stomach ache.







I request all safe foods. I make sure we get what I request and yet my poor tummy.







My dh and dd don't seem to have this problem.

We went to Outback tonight. I guess it is just the cross contamination thing but man, this sucks. I can't ever get a break. Even when I eat the blandest food on the planet. (I always order my food not seasoned when we eat out.) Well that isn't exactly true. There is a very nice resturant near us where we got a very expensive meal one night. It was amazing and delicious and no tummy ache! But we can't afford that on a regular basis at all. If they can figure it out why can't Applebees?


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Patty, I made a dessert the other night with pumkin (it was white on the outside and light orange on the inside, it had a mild sweet flavor.) It almost tasted like banana pudding.

1 small pumkin, baked
honey (or other sweetener of choice)
nutmeg
cinnamon
vanilla (with glycerin)

blend these ingredients until smooth. Then prepare gelatine: 2 T gelatin in 1/2 cup cold water then add 1/2 cup boiling water and stir until gelatin is dissolved. Add to pumkin mixture and blend. Rerfrigerate for several hours, it firms up into a nice consistency. If you find a mild tasting pumkin that is sweet you hardly need any sweetener.


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

Here's a recipe I adapted from pecanbread.com recipe that is egg and dairy free. I'm totally addicted to them, and they freeze well if you want to do a double batch (actually, they are really good straight out of the freezer - still frozen).

*Almond cookies*
2 cups almond flour
1/4 tsp baking soda
1/8 tsp salt
2 T. Spectrum shortening
1/3 C. honey
1 tsp vanilla (or almond if you can find a legal kind) extract
1 tsp cinnamon

1. Mix all the ingredients well.
2. Roll out dough between two layers of a zip lock freezer bag (may use plastic wrap or just an almond flour dusted surface) then cut out with cookie cutters. Or roll into small balls and just press onto baking sheet with hands.
3. Bake at 400 F until cookies start to brown around the edge (about 10 minutes depending on thickness).


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## milkamama (May 14, 2005)

i recently read that craving chocolate can be a sign of a magnesium deficiency. anyone know anything about this? i crave chocolate constantly and totally attributed it to not having it...strange, i did not recognize that something may be lacking even though all my other cravings have subsided since i've changed my diet.

if anyone knows of a good link or has knowledge about mag and/or mag and cal, it would be greatly appreciated.


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## milkamama (May 14, 2005)

saskiasmom said:


> How could this be die-off related? Anyone else with this experience. The first two weeks of my program were the absolute worst, but then I got into a groove (relatively), with anxiety coming and going, and then I added some things last week, and then again yesterday, and my anxiety has been returning since last week. On the up side, I have had symptom reduction, which makes me think die-off, but physiologically, I dont get it. What's the connection, and are there any vitamins/minerals I might benefit from. Im wary of taking *too much* mag., as I want to feel energetic enough to exercise (to help with the anxiety - lol). I have been taking 600mg/day, with 600mg cal., but was doing some reading on it today and its better to take on an empty stomach (I havent been), and Im not clear on the relationship btwn mag. and cal. Dont they inhibit each other or something? I literally open my eyes in the morning (interestingly, I sleep plenty) and feel the anxiety creep into my body; warm face, sleepyness, mind that wont stop.
> 
> sorry no words of wisdom, but i can relate to the anxiety. for me it comes and goes. i noticed when i tried to add enzymes in too quickly, my anxiety increased...the same goes for when i increased my probiotic/yoghurt intake...insomnia seems to be getting me this week too.
> 
> ...


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## milkamama (May 14, 2005)

i would love to hear about any recommendations or favorite brands of mag and/or cal supplements.


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## sphinxie (Feb 28, 2006)

All I can offer regarding magnesium is this thread about magnesium sulfate

http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...d.php?t=520486


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

This certainly isn't scientific, but I used to be a total chocolate addict (had to have it every day). When I went off dairy, I started taking 1000mg of calcium, 500 mg of magnesium and 500 mg of phosphorus. I can honestly say that I stopped craving chocolate after about a week. I still dream about it, but I don't get that intense if-I-don't-get-chocolate-now-somebody-is-going-to-get-hurt attack. You think I'm joking, but I was like a smoker needing a smoke with my chocolate. Anyhoo - just my experience. I use Country Life and I'm pretty happy with it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *milkamama*
i recently read that craving chocolate can be a sign of a magnesium deficiency. anyone know anything about this? i crave chocolate constantly and totally attributed it to not having it...strange, i did not recognize that something may be lacking even though all my other cravings have subsided since i've changed my diet.

if anyone knows of a good link or has knowledge about mag and/or mag and cal, it would be greatly appreciated.


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

*chocolate/magnesium* - I dont crave it anymore either, but I miss the days that I did







It was an everyday thing for me too. I take calcium/mag citrate in a 1:1 ratio, the brand is solaray. I take 600mg/day divided in two doses.

*Anxiety* - I cant tell if its die off, or the fear that I will never be healed, and this paralell universe I feel like Im in is going to be life forever







: To make matters worse, I think im developing *TMJ*. Ive been a big gum chewer for years (except when preg/nursing), and my jaw is also not completely straight. At my last dentist appt (new dentist) she asked me about pain, but Id never had any. I think the anxiety is causing it? Anybody with experience. Bseides letting my jaw hang slack like a stoner, which I am as much as I remember, would craniosacral or myofascial therpy help? I just changed my primary care doc to one whose into integrated medicine and does myofascial. Maybe I should actually make an appt.

*Enzymes* - Ive been wanting to do enzymes but am scared of the anxiety, as I did some during those first two weeks (started diet, antifungals, prob's, and enzymes in one week!!!! hello!). I eat so much meat on the anticandida diet, it seems like I should help my body digest, not to mention, if anxiety is caused by a deficiency, maybe I could better absorb?

Thoughts? Deep thoughts?


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Every time we eat out I get a stomach ache.







I request all safe foods. I make sure we get what I request and yet my poor tummy.







My dh and dd don't seem to have this problem.

We went to Outback tonight. I guess it is just the cross contamination thing but man, this sucks. I can't ever get a break. Even when I eat the blandest food on the planet. (I always order my food not seasoned when we eat out.) Well that isn't exactly true. There is a very nice resturant near us where we got a very expensive meal one night. It was amazing and delicious and no tummy ache! But we can't afford that on a regular basis at all. If they can figure it out why can't Applebees?

we don't use a microwave at home - haven't for months. we went out to a low-scale (fast food) place after 2 months MW-free and wound up having headaches, congestion, bloating, blah blah blah. i'm guessing that places like Outback, Applebees, etc. rely A LOT on microwave use. it changes the molecular nature of your food. so if you don't typically use a microwave, the restaurant food might be sufficiently different that your tummy doesn't recognize it as safe food.

the times we go to the expensive sushi restaurant or the cheap chinese food restaurant (where we know they don't use a microwave for their freshly made stuff), we are just fine.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *milkamama*
i would love to hear about any recommendations or favorite brands of mag and/or cal supplements.

Natural Calm is a nice mag supplement. I don't do calcium supplements - it is plentiful in the food that I eat (many farmers still put lime on their fields which increases Ca in the crops but Mg is never added to the soil).


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *milkamama*
i recently read that craving chocolate can be a sign of a magnesium deficiency. anyone know anything about this? i crave chocolate constantly and totally attributed it to not having it...strange, i did not recognize that something may be lacking even though all my other cravings have subsided since i've changed my diet.

if anyone knows of a good link or has knowledge about mag and/or mag and cal, it would be greatly appreciated.

actually chocolate has a bunch more than just magnesium - a ton of amino acids and such. raw cacao nibs are now available (at a premium price compared to regular chocolate bars) - why not just get those and give into the craving? I actually find that, between having a little chocolate in the afternoon, a teeny bit of mag citrate and an epsom salt bath, I am finally able to maintain a good level of magnesium.


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets*
I am finally able to maintain a good level of magnesium.

Just curious, how do you know?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets*
we don't use a microwave at home - haven't for months. we went out to a low-scale (fast food) place after 2 months MW-free and wound up having headaches, congestion, bloating, blah blah blah. i'm guessing that places like Outback, Applebees, etc. rely A LOT on microwave use. it changes the molecular nature of your food. so if you don't typically use a microwave, the restaurant food might be sufficiently different that your tummy doesn't recognize it as safe food.

the times we go to the expensive sushi restaurant or the cheap chinese food restaurant (where we know they don't use a microwave for their freshly made stuff), we are just fine.

That is very interesting. We recently stopped using the evil microwave too when I came back from our homeopath who said my body was *full* of radiation.









Did some searching after that and did you know that most microwave manufacturers recommend that you stand *at least* 4 feet away while in use? Hmmm . . . wonder why? Sickening.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *milkamama*
i recently read that craving chocolate can be a sign of a magnesium deficiency. anyone know anything about this? i crave chocolate constantly and totally attributed it to not having it...strange, i did not recognize that something may be lacking even though all my other cravings have subsided since i've changed my diet.

if anyone knows of a good link or has knowledge about mag and/or mag and cal, it would be greatly appreciated.

I read MT talking about this in the Nutrition 101 thread (I think) and she doesn't think this is a very reliable indicator.

I crave chocolate too but it doesn't get any better even after taking a mag supp. on a regular basis.

I get the cal/mag liquid from Kirkman's. Seems to work best for me. Natural Calm throws my calcium levels out of whack.


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

ff - I'm interested in this, too. I got the bifido factor dairy free for my daughter (3 1/2 months and ebf) because that's all I could find.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Where are you getting this... I thought Natren's Life Start was only with dairy? Their website says to use Bifido factor Dairy Free, but that is not B. infantis?


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## fullofgrace (Nov 26, 2002)

I just have to say thank you again for encouraging me to try enzymes for myself and for the kids.









Now the schools have even noticed some awesome progress in the girls (their nicknames are in my sig). Sweet's 1:1 assistant has reported that she has had fabulous day after fabulous day, she's been using a lot more language, and is asking appropriately to go take a break when she's beginning to feel overwhelmed, thus avoiding any kind of upset. She's doing this at home, too. This is huge!







Sunshine's daily reports have been wonderful. She's stayed on task consistantly and her language has become a lot richer. Her pretend play both at home and school has become grander and more detailed.

For me, my digestion has become *so* much better. My abdominal pain is greatly reduced and seemingly better every day. I go daily now versus every few days. I can get through a meal without feeling the urge to go. I wouldn't have imagined all these changes possible until I tried the enzymes. I can't wait until I can rev them up a bit (still going low and slow) and see if it will start to tackle the fibro pain, too.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*
Just curious, how do you know?

no more restless legs, no trouble falling asleep at night, no grinding my teeth (I might not be at optimal quite coz i still clench them), no more twitching in bed at night, ... pretty much any sign of mag deficiency, I had. i'm at a point now where i can do a loading dose of mg citrate on the weekend (to bowel tolerance - which is much much less now than it was a few months ago) and then coast through the week with chocolate (yum!) and epsom salt baths (which also help ds coz we bathe together for the moment). i forgot to do the loading dose this weekend and am getting a little of the symptoms coming back when i go to bed really late (after midnight).


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
That is very interesting. We recently stopped using the evil microwave too when I came back from our homeopath who said my body was *full* of radiation.









Did some searching after that and did you know that most microwave manufacturers recommend that you stand *at least* 4 feet away while in use? Hmmm . . . wonder why? Sickening.

my dh did a LOT of reading about this and EMF stuff - we turned off one of the 2 wireless routers in the house and dumped the microwave. we have one phone that isn't cordless (though we still keep the cordless ones around and use them less). we can't do anything about the big cellphone tower at the end of our street (doh!).

dh also read that the guy who lucked on the use of microwaves for food happened to notice that, when he was in the lab tinkering with microwaves in another context, it melted the chocolate bar in his pocket. so he thought it would be a good way to heat up his food. and then we had microwave ovens a few years later.

but really, our food tastes so much better now than before.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets*
dh also read that the guy who lucked on the use of microwaves for food happened to notice that, when he was in the lab tinkering with microwaves in another context, it melted the chocolate bar in his pocket. so he thought it would be a good way to heat up his food. and then we had microwave ovens a few years later.

Makes ya wonder how long he lived doesn't it?


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Makes ya wonder how long he lived doesn't it?

makes ya wonder even more if/how he had kids and then what they turned out like!


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## milkamama (May 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets*
actually chocolate has a bunch more than just magnesium - a ton of amino acids and such. raw cacao nibs are now available (at a premium price compared to regular chocolate bars) - why not just get those and give into the craving? I actually find that, between having a little chocolate in the afternoon, a teeny bit of mag citrate and an epsom salt bath, I am finally able to maintain a good level of magnesium.

i love the way you think...
i have no problem giving into the chocolate craving...finding high quality without dairy or soy isn't always easy...then i tend to binge on it. basically i eat until it is gone!


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## milkamama (May 14, 2005)

thanks so much for all of the cal/mag info.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *bluets*
actually chocolate has a bunch more than just magnesium - a ton of amino acids and such. raw cacao nibs are now available (at a premium price compared to regular chocolate bars) - why not just get those and give into the craving? I actually find that, between having a little chocolate in the afternoon, a teeny bit of mag citrate and an epsom salt bath, I am finally able to maintain a good level of magnesium
.
I want to know where to find those cacao nibs!


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou*
ff - I'm interested in this, too. I got the bifido factor dairy free for my daughter (3 1/2 months and ebf) because that's all I could find.

Solaray BabyLife is a dairy free bifidus only infant probiotic. If you can't find it locally you can order it online and have it shipped next day mail.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

The baby probiotics seem to be helping DD--I didn't notice any bloody poop at all while we were gone or since, even though I ate a ton of dairy







She did have a bit of an eczema flare-up a few weeks ago, though, and I can't figure out why. It was around the same time I started her on the probiotics, and also started occasionally giving her a tiny bit of solids. I don't know if it's a die-off reaction, a reaction to solids, or just coincidence. It started in the middle of my one-month-long no-cheating phase, so I know it wasn't dairy that caused it this time.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *milkamama*
i love the way you think...
i have no problem giving into the chocolate craving...finding high quality without dairy or soy isn't always easy...then i tend to binge on it. basically i eat until it is gone!

Green and Blacks or the Endangered Species stuff - but they both have sugar/cane sugar (one is organic, the other isn't) so if you've cut out sugar, then these won't be good. also, only the DARK chocolate has no milk chocolate. I actually prefer the Endangered Species because they have varieties with dried cranberries and almonds or dried raspberries and (some other nut i can't remember). but i got dh hooked on G&B hazelnut. we both made the rule that we only take the recommended serving size on the pkg and this is probably the only form of cane sugar (or any sugar) we have on a regular basis.

oh, the other way to get some minerals is with blackstrap molasses (again, you might want to see if this coincides with SCD or anti-candida or whatever). i usually add blackstrap molasses to my granola and kefir in the morning.

btw, it is only recently that i've been carefully adding these more natural sweeteners without noticing any recourse/setback. i went for months without sugar. now i don't need as much - indeed, honey from different sources also range in sweetness and i seem to dislike the really sweet ones more now than in the past. dh never did the full sugar purge (and he probably needs to do so more than i ever did) - he is a sugar/sweetness junkie through and through, though he is MUCH better off now than ever before.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
.
I want to know where to find those cacao nibs!

firefaery is a big fan - perhaps she will post her favorite online store.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

so this is a TMI but i thought i'd share the results of my recent experiment.

i had been taking Metagenics UltraFlora Plus DF since May or so. 1 capsule 2x daily (I don't bother trying to take anythign at lunch - my brain can't handle that). my ND had suggested 3 months of the UltraFlora and Glutagenics and i had just come to the end of that period. my intention was to see how i did for a week once i finished both of those products.

the weekend that i finished, i ended up overdoing my mag loading, so sunday/monday was a little unpleasant in the bathroom. oops. then it took me a LOT longer to recover my gut microflora. after a week and a half of unpleasantness (and no other change in diet - still 2-3 c of kefir a day; no extra mag either), i broke down and took dh's PB8 probiotic. voila. next day, everything was good again. so i continued for a few days taking 1 of these capsules, 2x daily.

then i saw the ND to wrap up a few things. he suggested adding a capsule of the PB8 to my kefir - just to give the kefir an extra boost. perhaps my kefir was lacking a microbe/strain that is in the PB8 that i actually need in my system. this had me scratching my head a bit afterwards because the ultraflora plus is suppsoed to be only l. acidophilus and b. lactis which i had thought were naturally in kefir (though maybe i'm misremembering).

anyhow... i added the capsule and, between it and a round in 1/2 heavy cream and 1/2 whole milk, my kefir is even creamier and thicker than ever before. yum. even better, i seem to be functioning well without taking probiotics beyond what is in my kefir. yahoo.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets*
firefaery is a big fan - perhaps she will post her favorite online store.









Gotta know.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Today was a bit of a shocker.

Guess what was biggest reaction? Peanuts. A *huge* welt, the size of a quarter, with a few tentacles branching out from it!!

Next biggest: Almonds and Coconut.









Then slightly: Lamb, Citrus. And Eggs: whites and yolks both.







:

So these were the foods I turned to when weaned and his gut went crazy. No surprise I guess. Except for peanuts. He's literally only had them about 3x in his life, thankfully!!!

Yet again I'm so very grateful I didn't vax this child. Now I might as well just add: "avoided anaphylactic reaction to peanuts" to my List Of Things DS Narrowly Missed by Not Vaxing Which Cannot Be Proven But Mama Intuition Suspects.







:

These were ok: Cow, Goat, Beef, Chicken, Banana, Carrot, Pear, Tomato

They didn't have pecan or macadamia antigen, which would be the next nuts I would let him eat on an effort to stay SCD. They did have cashew which we may do at our next appt. but I thought it prudent to stop testing nuts after he reacted to 2 so strongly.

SCD w/o eggs or nuts would be quite impossible for us at the moment since he cannot do carrots or squashes or most fruits either it seems. Maybe in a few weeks when gut inflammation calms down from eliminating things he is obviously reacting to.

*But did you catch this: no reaction to cow or goat dairy.*









So obviously that reaction I saw a few days ago was from the almond butter he ate and not cow dairy contaminated kefir.









I will keep him on goat's milk to give his little gut a break since it's inflamed. This will work well since our raw goat milk share goes thru Fall until they dry up. Still not sure if I will keep him nut free or try pecans and macadamias only over weekend.

*What the heck am I going to feed this child for breakfast and snacks for preschool?* I'm kinda panicking over that here... I keep remembering how oats and rice were such a nightmare (they were his first solids.) But he did tolerate them well later on Rotation Diet. ARGH!!!!


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Jane,

Frederick lately has been eating yogurt almost exclusively. His lunch for preschool today is basically yogurt.

Of the things that your son tends to eat, what is he still able to eat besides the yogurt? The good news here is that he is three and not thirty and doesn't know that most of us couldn't live without variety.

What were the tests?

Thank goodness you've got some information.

Amanda


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Yeah well, he wants variety now. We've been having a big issue with food lately. My previously I-love-vegetables child now will hardly touch them and you can't blame him as he can only digest a few. Every morning this week has been a discussion on the ride to preschool about why he cannot have juice like the other kids. At least I made him cookies which he adored. Yup from almond and brazil nut flour so those are gonna have to go.







: At least they were egg free.









His diet was: beef, chicken, turkey, lamb, salmon, bone broths, peas, green beans, zucchini, summer squash, broccoli, spinach he will eat in quiche only, eggplant rarely will touch it, avocados, nuts, bananas, cooked pears, eggs, lemon juice, goat yogurt & butter.

Anything else sends his poop to mush and he doesn't sleep. And as you can see a lot of it he can't have now. I feel totally between a rock and a hard place.









So of course I was able to make a large repetoire of pancakes, muffins, waffles, hot cereal and bread of course from nuts. Breakfast is usually one of those with yogurt. If he can't have nuts he is going to literally freak. The ice cream I make from bananas, vanilla and butter that is such a treat will not hold him for long.

I guess the kid can now have cheese though. Maybe cheesecake with gelatin? This is going to be very very hard.

Thinking about quinoa, buckwheat and millet... some of those are seeds right?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Sorry, the tests were intradermal. The DAN/AAEM dr. we are seeing finds them most accurate.

Yes at least we are getting some answers.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Oh and candida might have been a "no reaction" but since it was next to the peanut, which blew up out of control, we couldn't tell for sure.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

www.EatRaw.com for raw cacao nibs and powder. They are at my Whole Foods now.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Jane,

what if a lot of the reactions you saw in veggies and fruit weren't really from those items but an extension/continuation of the reaction from nuts and eggs? i'll be curious to see how things change once you remove nuts and eggs for an extended period of time and then begin to reintroduce veggies and fruits.

quinoa is a seed and is from the chenopodiaceae - very very distantly related to grasses/true grains. millet, on the other, is part of the grass family (along with wheat). buckwheat is from the polygonaceae - also very distantly related to grasses. amaranth is from the amaranthaceae - close cousin to quinoa.

some good links on cross-reactivity in allergies:
http://www.allergyclinic.co.nz/guides/42.html
http://www.allergyclinic.co.nz/guides/29.html
http://www.food-allergens.de/symposi...-abstract.html


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

JaneS--if your DS can tolerate brown rice (it's supposed to be one of the easiest grains to digest) then you could make things with brown rice flour.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Anyone know if I could make coconut milk yogurt using probiotics as a starter? I'd like to give DD some yogurt for extra probiotics but since we can't do dairy...(and I know there is a non-dairy yogurt starter, but I wondered if I could just use the probiotics I have for her).


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Anyone know if I could make coconut milk yogurt using probiotics as a starter? I'd like to give DD some yogurt for extra probiotics but since we can't do dairy...(and I know there is a non-dairy yogurt starter, but I wondered if I could just use the probiotics I have for her).

Yes, all I used was a probiotic. The gelatin is what firms the consistency of the milk, not the l.casei strain as in regular yogurt.


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

I got my Immunolabs IgG tests back. It is rated 0-4. I got
eggs=4 (both white and yolk)
cow milk=4
goat milk=3
gluten grains=2-4

I had probably 20 others that were mostly 1s and some 2s (tomatoes, pecans, yeasts). I am thinking the gluten, milk, and egg senstivities are here to stay. I must heal my gut!!! The candida blood test I got showed negative on 2 parts and postive on one.

I am thinking those 1s and 2s food intolerances will go away when I get the Lyme out and the gut healed. (My dr said the Lyme is taxing my immune system..my #s were half of what they should be on that blood test) Do ya'll think those senstitivties will go away?








Tell me I am on the path to wellness..I need some encouragement today.

Jennifer


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*

*Anxiety* - I cant tell if its die off, or the fear that I will never be healed, and this paralell universe I feel like Im in is going to be life forever







: To make matters worse, I think im developing *TMJ*. Ive been a big gum chewer for years (except when preg/nursing), and my jaw is also not completely straight. At my last dentist appt (new dentist) she asked me about pain, but Id never had any. I think the anxiety is causing it? Anybody with experience. Bseides letting my jaw hang slack like a stoner, which I am as much as I remember, would craniosacral or myofascial therpy help? I just changed my primary care doc to one whose into integrated medicine and does myofascial. Maybe I should actually make an appt.
Deep thoughts?









I have anxiety sometimes when I get more and more (bad) news. I start feeling overwhelmed by it all. When I was put on tons of supplements I felt anxious about sorting them all out and remembering them. Now I can't have eggs, dairy, and gluten so I need to figure out how to deal with that. I think this is common. Getting to the root of your health problems can have slower results (then drugs) so you wonder if what you are doing id even making a difference! I am sure there are lots of moms here who are feeling like that. I know I do sometimes.

I did have some jaw muscle sensitivity when my car was rear ended last year (the person was going 50 mph and I was stoppped). Have you been in a physical trama like that? My dentist said that my muscles seems inflamed and I was not opening my mouth as big. If you are anxious you could be clenching your jaw also. I do that with my upper body and facial muscles when I am tense.







s Jennifer


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
www.EatRaw.com for raw cacao nibs and powder. They are at my Whole Foods now.

My dh just made raw chocolate milk by putting the raw cocoa nibs in a coffee grinder and mixing in with raw milk. Sweeten with raw honey, agave ect.


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Newcastle mama - Thanks for the thoughts. I havent been in a trauma, but I have been more stressed by all this than Ive ever been in my life. Its unbelievable. Rationally I can undersatnd the whole process and know that IM making educated decisions and it takes time, but my subconscious, or something, is making me totally wired. I wake up and it hits me; jittery, flushed skin, [most likely] tense facial muscles!

For the *anti-yeast mamas* or those in the know, what about *glycerin*? Can we use it. Now that stevia is qustionable....

Also, Ive been reading up on *deglycerated licorice*, *glucosamine sulfate*, a *cocavalin A*. What do you think of these? Isent glucoseamine in broth?

JaneS - so sorry for the added complications. It IS good to know, and that ice-cream sounds delish.

Oh and milk thistle, what do you think/know?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets*
Jane,

what if a lot of the reactions you saw in veggies and fruit weren't really from those items but an extension/continuation of the reaction from nuts and eggs? i'll be curious to see how things change once you remove nuts and eggs for an extended period of time and then begin to reintroduce veggies and fruits.

quinoa is a seed and is from the chenopodiaceae - very very distantly related to grasses/true grains. millet, on the other, is part of the grass family (along with wheat). buckwheat is from the polygonaceae - also very distantly related to grasses. amaranth is from the amaranthaceae - close cousin to quinoa.

Oh absolutely I think that is what it is. That the intestines are inflamed and so therefore cannot digest any carbs very well at all... they are fermenting and therefore the problems. I swear they were causing histamine reactions though too that I didn't see with the things he is supposedly allergic to but who knows at this point. It could be all delayed. Pretty amazing that I could get a semblance of normalcy with him when on enzymes and probiotics though. He did level off. I've been going back and looking at our notes and wondering if the reactions I've seen is when he had almond cookies for snack w/ no enzymes for example. And of course when I took him off them for stool testing. My mind is racing with all this!

We'll test the grains/seeds on Monday and see what happens with them.








Thanks for the links!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
JaneS--if your DS can tolerate brown rice (it's supposed to be one of the easiest grains to digest) then you could make things with brown rice flour.

This is what I'm thinking ... after it is tested and after a while when his gut calms down. We have 2 things working for us too that I didn't do before when his diet contained a lot of rice: soaking a la NT and regular enzymes. Still unsure.







:


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*
JaneS - so sorry for the added complications. It IS good to know, and that ice-cream sounds delish.

Oh and milk thistle, what do you think/know?

Yes the ice cream is so easy, I just whip up banana, butter and vanilla with my stick blender, stick in freezer for a couple hours _et voila_!

Milk thistle is excellent for liver, very safe. I took it when I had my fillings out. Need a very reputable version like Gaia or Oregon Wild Harvest or Herb Pharm.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I use milk thistle seeds every day and love them.

Jane, isn't that ice cream fabulous? We occasionally add frozen strawberries, walnuts and raw cacao sauce with a whipped apple topping and call it a banana split! No nuts for you it seems, but you can play with so many different flavors. I have also made it with a coconut base.


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Milk Thisle - I thought I read it is good for gut healing? It is anti-inflamatory. As is slippery elm. Do any of you take these for inflamation/healing?
__________________________________________________ _____________
Herbs

Botanical remedies can be very effective treatments for a wide range of conditions. Below are the most useful herbs for healing a leaky gut and restoring the mucosal barrier. A few of them also powerfully enhance detoxification pathways which is a further benefit for the leaky gut patient.

Deglycyrrhizinated Licorice
DGL has a powerful anti-inflammatory effect and is very soothing to the upper GI tract. It has been comprehensively researched and shown to be an effective treatment for ulcers of the GI tract and also to prevent damage to the intestines by aspirin (9, 10).

Silymarin (Milk Thistle)
This is one of the most powerful healing herbs there is. Most well known for its ability to protect liver cells from potent toxins, it also has a strong anti-inflammatory effect on the gut lining. Silymarin is a very good antioxidant and also increases levels of glutathione in the cells (11).

Slippery Elm
Slippery elm has a soothing, calming effect on inflamed and damaged gut lining. It is used widely for a range of gastrointestinal disorders. This soothing action can be attributed to its antioxidant action in the gut which has been proven in a number of clinical studies, some on inflammatory bowel disease patients where severe inflammation is present (12, 13). In addition, slippery elm provides mucilage which coats and protects the intestinal lining from toxins and pathogenic organisms.

Aloe
Aloe is a fantastic natural healing agent that has found uses treating a wide range of different conditions due to its multiple beneficial actions. One of aloe's active component are called mucilaginous polysaccharides which give the plant its powerful anti-inflammatory healing action. It has been widely shown to have a beneficial affect on a number of conditions involving inflammation of the gut (14, 15). In addition to its healing effect on the gut lining, aloe is also an immunomodulator and antimicrobial, both of which are beneficial to anyone suffering from leaky gut syndrome and environmental illnesses (16).

__________________________________________________ ______________

So any insight into glycerin on the anti-candida diet? I think I remember someone asking Bee but dont remember what she said. I have been making an ice-cream (







oh how my standards have changed) of cocnut oil, cinnamon, and either stevia or vanilla extract w/ glycerin. I make one batch of about 1/4 c. at a time, mix and leave in the freezer to desired consistency (5-20 min). I eat this a few times a day, so I want to know if I should use stevia or glycerin.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

saskiamom--can you post your "ice cream" recipe?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Re- Stevia-
Dh pointed out that you use such a tiny ammount of it that even though it may feed yeast it won't do nearly the damage that sugar/honey/fruit can do since you use a much greater volume of those to get the same ammount of sweetness.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

When I first started, I used a product by RenewLife "Intestinew" that my ND verified for safety during breastfeeding. I noticed results within 3 days of starting. http://www.renewlife.com/flowmeter.cfm?meter=392

I just finished a 3-month treatment of a more powerful product, Metagenics Glutagenics. It contains glutamine, deglycyrrhizinated licorice and aloe. It seemed to work pretty well. http://www.metagenics.com/wt/page/patient_catalog/95


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Its not really a recipe. I put a blob of CO in a cup (as much CO as I am in the mood for - Id guess btwn 3-6 tbsp?), shake a lot of cinn on it (again, "to taste"), and add 2-3 drops stevia or a cap of vanilla extract made with glycerin. I stir this all up (whip it), put in freezer with the spoon in (in case it gets too hard to chip away at, the spoon in there gives you leverage







). Im toying with the idea of adding an egg, for more creaminess.

BTW, I liked your question. It is one I have looming in my mind a lot. This whole process has not felt as "healing" and wonderful as many there describe. I have had more physical (and emotional, for that matter) symptoms than ever in my life since starting the diet, and it is scary to think that I dont know if this will ever resolve. How could I have felt so healthy my whole life, and now I dont, and will I ever again, ykwim. Now I understand the allure of allopathic medicine for so many; a definitive answer - take this pill.... How do I know that all this fat and animal food will not have some deleterious effect years down the road? And the idea that Ive been "sick my whole life". Hmm. I sure didnt feel sick, and I sure do now. And then she throws around the threat of cancer, or other horiible diseases that we have supposedly saved ourselves from. I just want to eat NT!







Is that too much to ask


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Today was a bit of a shocker.

Guess what was biggest reaction? Peanuts. A *huge* welt, the size of a quarter, with a few tentacles branching out from it!!

Next biggest: Almonds and Coconut.









Then slightly: Lamb, Citrus. And Eggs: whites and yolks both.







:

So these were the foods I turned to when weaned and his gut went crazy. No surprise I guess. Except for peanuts. He's literally only had them about 3x in his life, thankfully!!!

Yet again I'm so very grateful I didn't vax this child. Now I might as well just add: "avoided anaphylactic reaction to peanuts" to my List Of Things DS Narrowly Missed by Not Vaxing Which Cannot Be Proven But Mama Intuition Suspects.







:

These were ok: Cow, Goat, Beef, Chicken, Banana, Carrot, Pear, Tomato

They didn't have pecan or macadamia antigen, which would be the next nuts I would let him eat on an effort to stay SCD. They did have cashew which we may do at our next appt. but I thought it prudent to stop testing nuts after he reacted to 2 so strongly.

SCD w/o eggs or nuts would be quite impossible for us at the moment since he cannot do carrots or squashes or most fruits either it seems. Maybe in a few weeks when gut inflammation calms down from eliminating things he is obviously reacting to.

*But did you catch this: no reaction to cow or goat dairy.*









So obviously that reaction I saw a few days ago was from the almond butter he ate and not cow dairy contaminated kefir.









I will keep him on goat's milk to give his little gut a break since it's inflamed. This will work well since our raw goat milk share goes thru Fall until they dry up. Still not sure if I will keep him nut free or try pecans and macadamias only over weekend.

*What the heck am I going to feed this child for breakfast and snacks for preschool?* I'm kinda panicking over that here... I keep remembering how oats and rice were such a nightmare (they were his first solids.) But he did tolerate them well later on Rotation Diet. ARGH!!!!

Jane, I'm so excited that you finally got some answers! I know it's hard trying to find foods we can actually FEED them but it's great that now you *know* yk?

We are embarking on the anti-candida thing (yes, I'm finally giving in because dd still is not sleeping well) and I sooo know what you mean about the lack of choices.

I'm trying to remain positive though and think that once we all get healed, our diets won't have to be so restrictive. (Hey, if I don't tell myself that I'll go nuts.)


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Had an appt. w/my awesome homeopath today and whatever *espressions of cancer* she saw in me last time are gone.









Also found out I have ghiardia (sp?) which isn't good news but I've got a remedy for it.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

caedmyn,
Have you noticed any improvements in dd's sleep since you've started the anti-candida diet?


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Jane,
Wow! Surprizing news about all those foods that DS reacts to. It will be exciting to see the changes he will go through, hopefully all good. Nuts and eggs are difficult to avoid but now you have cow yogurt and cheese! After his intestines calm down maybe you can introduce a lot more veggies and not be so stuck with the same things everyday. It is hard to rotate foods when you don't have many to choose from.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

I have been off of CO for 5 days now, as per the chiropractor's suggestion (blood type diet) and I feel so much better. My body does not feel so bogged down after I eat. I am less bloated all the time too. I am using ghee and a little butter, the butter seems fine for me even though I was off all dairy. DS's cheeks are a little better: there are no new red bumps but there is itchyness, he scratches and then it takes a few days for the scratches to heal. Also I think the calendula cream I had been putting on his face aggravates the skin







. For now I am going to rinse off his face everytime he eats/nurses and leave it at that.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
caedmyn,
Have you noticed any improvements in dd's sleep since you've started the anti-candida diet?

No! Last night she was up about 8 times. Although she has only woken twice two different times in the last two weeks, so I guess that's an improvement


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

So I made Jane's cashew cake into cupcakes and used artificial sweetener. They were ok. I over cooked them. I made butter cream frosting. Also w/ artificial sweetener. (Somersweet, I have it left over from my Somersizing days.) It was pretty good. I discovered that I had no butter in the house so my gallon of milk yielded 1 cup of butter. I hated wasting that much raw butter for 2 cupcakes but it was yummy and I felt ok about her just eating the frosting at the party. Although a friend was rolling her eyes and saying "that isn't healthy". She beleives that she would never be able to function w/o carbs. I didn't bother, she is a personal trainer and I know trying to re-educate her about nutrition is a lost cause.


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Had an appt. w/my awesome homeopath today and whatever *espressions of cancer* she saw in me last time are gone.









Also found out I have ghiardia (sp?) which isn't good news but I've got a remedy for it.

That's great news about the lack of cancer empressions!
Sorry about the ghiardia--(Seems like one is always finding out they have something on this sort of path to wellness!)

Jennifer


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I was a personal trainer for years-that's what dh does as his job. It's too funny (not) , the cert's for nutrition that go hand in hand. They are totally food pyramid based. I am in the process of recertifying now and am dreading that part. I'm gonna have to grin and bear it. Totally irks me.







:


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
No! Last night she was up about 8 times. Although she has only woken twice two different times in the last two weeks, so I guess that's an improvement









I hear ya. It's a total rollercoaster ride. Just when I think dd is making progres. . .

My homeopath *promises* me that once we eliminate the fungus, dd will sleep better. I'm holding her to it.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I've been doing a ton of reading on candida (books, websites, etc), and almost everything I've found says that with diet changes and supplements/probiotics you should be able to cure candida overgrowth in 2-3 months. Does this sound feasible/realistic?


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Jane, if teff would work, you could try Injera. It's a grain I think but gluten free. Here is a recipe without wheat: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~mjw/recipes/ethnic/injera.html


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I've been doing a ton of reading on candida (books, websites, etc), and almost everything I've found says that with diet changes and supplements/probiotics you should be able to cure candida overgrowth in 2-3 months. Does this sound feasible/realistic?

It has not been our experience.







Perhaps we aren't doing it right?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
I hear ya. It's a total rollercoaster ride. Just when I think dd is making progres. . .

My homeopath *promises* me that once we eliminate the fungus, dd will sleep better. I'm holding her to it.









I have been promised that too. However eliminating the fungus isn't as easy as it sounds. We have been working on dd's yeast for about 1 year now. The first few months were just with homeopathic remedies. They did little. My Dr (who is a homeopath) said that there really aren't any effective homeopathic remedies for yeast.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

i'm pretty certain i had a mild case (which is why i did the leaky gut test in the first place) but mine is gone - and if not gone gone, then is certainly controllable. i may have really helped it along with diflucan - in the spring i had a really bad sinus infection that needed drugs. so i also asked for diflucan to follow the antibiotics (this is my usual protocol, btw, whenever i resort to antibiotics).


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Had an appt. w/my awesome homeopath today and whatever *espressions of cancer* she saw in me last time are gone.









Also found out I have ghiardia (sp?) which isn't good news but I've got a remedy for it.

Tell me more about ghiardia. I'm pretty sure that I have had that in the past. I just assumed at the time that it was a short lived issue. (Swam in a lake in Africa that we later learned had bad ghiardia overgrowth, threw up and had diahrea for most of the 30 hour trip home.) Could it still be an issue for me?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Jane-







I'm not sure what to say. I'm glad you have some answers. I'm so sorry you are having to rethink everything. It is hard enough figuring it out for yourself, so much harder with a child. I hope that this is truly a road to wellness for you and your family.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

a few links:

http://www.cdc.gov/Ncidod/dpd/parasi...ht_giardia.htm
http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/chap22.html (this one is worth reading for sure)
http://www.cellsalive.com/parasit.htm (a picture of the lil bugger)
http://www.emedicine.com/EMERG/topic215.htm
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...35/ai_12436042 (article is called "Giardia antigen detection in patients with chronic gastrointestinal disturbances")

highlights - it is usually associated with a 3-4 day course of diarrhea but can turn into a chronic problem. also associated with lactose intolerance.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Well, we cut back on the fruit that dd was eating and started giving reuteri and lactobacillus gg *everyday* and dd hasn't pooped yet in 3 days. This is great news because before she had constant runs, at least 8 times daily. I'm looking forward to a nice firm poop!

Also, could a yeast rash be a sign of die-off? We haven't had a yeast rash in a while, but suddenly, it's popping up again on her bum and behind her knee. I wonder if this is just part of the process of getting rid of it once and for all.

Also, what do you all feed your toddlers? It's so hard for me to find foods that dd likes and will eat enough of. She eats a couple bites of eggs and that's it. She nurses a ton still; I know she's hungry. But it's hard to find things for her. BTW, we're doing a modified SCD/anti-candida. We're also dairy-free.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Oh, I also wanted to mention that we found good prices at www.vitacost.com in case you're shopping around.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Annikate, that's great about the cancer, not so great about the giardia. How was it detected?


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Can you knowledgeable mamas answer any questions on this thread?

Thanks
Amy


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I have been promised that too. However eliminating the fungus isn't as easy as it sounds. We have been working on dd's yeast for about 1 year now. The first few months were just with homeopathic remedies. They did little. My Dr (who is a homeopath) said that there really aren't any effective homeopathic remedies for yeast.

I know, which is why I'm finally *giving in* to the anti-candida diet.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Tell me more about ghiardia. I'm pretty sure that I have had that in the past. I just assumed at the time that it was a short lived issue. (Swam in a lake in Africa that we later learned had bad ghiardia overgrowth, threw up and had diahrea for most of the 30 hour trip home.) Could it still be an issue for me?

YOu know, I don't know a lot about it except that it can come from contaminated water. I had an uncle who actually died from this in the 70s. Our town's drinking water was contaminated. It crippled his immune system, sent him to the hospital and then he had a heart attack (or stroke?) a couple of days later. He was healthy until then.

My doc said that people who are on airplanes a lot can also contract this. I didn't ask her why.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache*
Well, we cut back on the fruit that dd was eating and started giving reuteri and lactobacillus gg *everyday* and dd hasn't pooped yet in 3 days. This is great news because before she had constant runs, at least 8 times daily. I'm looking forward to a nice firm poop!

Also, could a yeast rash be a sign of die-off? We haven't had a yeast rash in a while, but suddenly, it's popping up again on her bum and behind her knee. I wonder if this is just part of the process of getting rid of it once and for all.

Also, what do you all feed your toddlers? It's so hard for me to find foods that dd likes and will eat enough of. She eats a couple bites of eggs and that's it. She nurses a ton still; I know she's hungry. But it's hard to find things for her. BTW, we're doing a modified SCD/anti-candida. We're also dairy-free.

Is she drinking any water? Are you drinking a TON if you're still b'feeding?
How about avocados? My dds LOVE them. Just a quick thought. I know they're a fruit but they are really low in fructose. I'm wondering if I can still feed them to dd now that we're embarking on the anti-candida thing.


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I've been doing a ton of reading on candida (books, websites, etc), and almost everything I've found says that with diet changes and supplements/probiotics you should be able to cure candida overgrowth in 2-3 months. Does this sound feasible/realistic?

When I first started this path, I thought this too. I read somehting early on that was very thorough and strict - it said at least 3 mos. I have also talked to some friends IRL that treated theirs in 2-3 mos. On the other hand, I have heard more people say a year. I dont *know* them, so dont know their particular situation, and I dont know how much the particulars have to do with it. The whole "one month for every year" - I just dont think you can apply a formula like that to everyone, plus, determining how long you have been "sick" is a big gray area. I never had symptoms that I was aware of prior to this round of abx. To me, being "healed" means eating what I want without noticing anything? So I was "sick" for a week. Since starting this, I have had symptoms Ive never had, so does this mean that Ive been secretly "sick" for years and its all coming out, and that I have to be at this for a lonng time? That's what Im going with. The other thing is, Ive read that while "natural" antifungals are good, you really need a prescription. People here who have had success in a shorter time have used them - I think - (ericaz, bluets - diflucan and nystatin, and diflucan respectively). This is also what the reading I mention above said. Then again, Ive heard that most natural antifungals are so close to being as good prescription is doesnt matter. But we dont have a lot of evidence/experience on this board w/ prescriptions to add to our information, which would help sort that out Id think. At this point, Im going with a year. Im almost at 2 mos and have seen very little change in the symptoms I had that week, and there are more, so once these are gone, I will start adding things like kefir. Another thing I am considering is whether to take a presciption. I could be a guinea pig for us (although I realize most of you cant/wouldnt take them anyway, for various reasons). I can get a script, but havent yet b/c, actually, Im scared that if my symptoms dont improve, well, the one light on the horizon would be gone and Id be left with eating massive ammounts of garlic and hoping. Is that crazy? This turned out to be a lot longerthan I planned. Dont know if this contributes anything







, just that I feel you!

jessica


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

saskiamom--yeah it is so hard figuring out what to do. It would be really great if there were a one-size-fit-all approach, but there really isn't.

annikate--you can do avocados on the anti-candida diet, 1/2 an avocado a day. Actually I don't think you are supposed to on the strictest form of the diet but oh well I do anyway.

pattyla-I'm sorry you are having such a rough time right now. Hopefully the anti-candida diet will help you. What is your doctor recommending as an anti-candida program?

JaneS--hugs to you and your DS, too. You have been struggling with this for such a long time, I hope you are able to find some answers and a direction to go with this allergy testing.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Progurt disappointment...so I made the first batch of yogurt with my progurt dairy free starter...It didn't sour. I'm really bummed. I've had no problem with other starters. Any thoughts? Is is possible that it's "bad?" I'm always really good with my temps. I can't afford to waste the products that go into this. ANy words of wisdom?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

On the efficacy of diets...there are so many factors. Rarely does anyone have a simple fungal infection. IT will depend on what the total picture is for you. I really feel at this point that there are many anti-candida diets for a reason. WIth this testing I have been doing it is very clear to me why the SCD worked so well for my body. It may not for others. 3 months was true in my case. I really seemed to clear the yeast with no problem. The leaky gut wasn't completely gone or I wouldn't be having the issues I am now. But I did do a couple of live blood cell anayses-and the yeast was gone (or at least undetectable) in the second. So we are back on the SCD to try and finish what we've started. It will be a challenge with no eggs and no dairy, but I am going to try. We are also stepping up the enzymes again.

Chinese Pistache-hmmm, it sounds like your kiddo may still be racting to something...no poop in three days (even following diarrhea) is not what you are wanting to see. Hopefully that will change soon for you. (for us too!)

Annikate-NCD is supposed to be really helpful for yeast as well, sepecially combined with Liquid Oxygen. You aren't seeing any progress?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
On the efficacy of diets...there are so many factors. Rarely does anyone have a simple fungal infection. IT will depend on what the total picture is for you. I really feel at this point that there are many anti-candida diets for a reason. WIth this testing I have been doing it is very clear to me why the SCD worked so well for my body. It may not for others. 3 months was true in my case. I really seemed to clear the yeast with no problem. The leaky gut wasn't completely gone or I wouldn't be having the issues I am now. But I did do a couple of live blood cell anayses-and the yeast was gone (or at least undetectable) in the second. So we are back on the SCD to try and finish what we've started. It will be a challenge with no eggs and no dairy, but I am going to try. We are also stepping up the enzymes again.

Chinese Pistache-hmmm, it sounds like your kiddo may still be racting to something...no poop in three days (even following diarrhea) is not what you are wanting to see. Hopefully that will change soon for you. (for us too!)

Annikate-NCD is supposed to be really helpful for yeast as well, sepecially combined with Liquid Oxygen. You aren't seeing any progress?

ff, I never thought I had a yeast problem. I'm pretty sure she's right about the ghiardia but that's a protezoa (I think - haven't looked it up.)

She thinks this diet will help the dd's yeast thing too (although I'm not convinced she's got a yeast issue either.)

So . . .









I trust her though and will try it. I guess it can't hurt in terms of killing the bacteria too right?

Think I'm gonna call our intuitive friend and find out what she thinks about it all.

ETA: Forgot to say that she found a *fungus* in my tonsils. (Which is funny, 'cause my voice has been coming and going for the last week or so.)


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets*
a few links:

http://www.cdc.gov/Ncidod/dpd/parasi...ht_giardia.htm
http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/chap22.html (this one is worth reading for sure)
http://www.cellsalive.com/parasit.htm (a picture of the lil bugger)
http://www.emedicine.com/EMERG/topic215.htm
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...35/ai_12436042 (article is called "Giardia antigen detection in patients with chronic gastrointestinal disturbances")

highlights - it is usually associated with a 3-4 day course of diarrhea but can turn into a chronic problem. also associated with lactose intolerance.

Thanks for the links! Must've missed your post earlier.

Funny, I haven't had d in ages . . .


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Progurt disappointment...so I made the first batch of yogurt with my progurt dairy free starter...It didn't sour. I'm really bummed. I've had no problem with other starters. Any thoughts? Is is possible that it's "bad?" I'm always really good with my temps. I can't afford to waste the products that go into this. ANy words of wisdom?

What did you do exactly? I've had issues with it in the past. I don't think the 1/4 tsp. for a half gallon milk is right for converting all lactose in 24 hrs for ex. but I know you are dairy free....


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## milkamama (May 14, 2005)

hey
just throwing some stuff out here while i have a brief moment.

jane-sorry about the new restrictions, but glad you have some info. my ds recently underwent a skin prick test and showed a high reaction to cashews, peanut, egg and soy. ds showed no reaction to several things that i am pretty sure bother him including dairy. our allergiest explained that his elevated IgE levels to cashews, peanuts, egg and soy demonstrate that he could have an anaphylactic reaction to them...BUT a negative result for dairy doesn't mean that he isn't intolerant or sensitive to dairy just probably not anaphylactic. two different allergiest and naturopath told us that dairy tends to come up negative if a 'fresh' sample is not used (our allergiest suggested bringing in fresh milk with our next visit to try testing again). not trying to discourage you...and not sure if your ds's testing was the same type or not....just thought i'd let you know.

my head spins every time i think i figured something else out...every time i think ds did or didn't react to something. once it all slows down, you regroup and find new ideas for meals and snacks.

i was thrilled at first with the testing, but the more i talked with the allergiest and learned that the skin test tells certain things, but not all...like how can the prick test tell how ds's body will react when he digests a particular food?..the more i became grounded and recognized that i still need to log ds's food and try to watch for reactions.

either way AT LEAST you know for sure what NOT to feed your son. good luck.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Jane-I heated the coconut milk with honey and gelatin to 110. At 105 I mixed in the starter and added it to the quart jar. I added a bit of vanilla and stuck it in the dehydrator at 115 which keeps it at 105 internally. Same as before, this starter just didn't do it. It wasn't sour, it was just firm, sweet coconut milk-basically I made pudding. Maybe I'll do 1/4 tsp per quart and see if that makes a difference. It's just getting really pricey really fast.

What was your issue with it?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
Jane, if teff would work, you could try Injera. It's a grain I think but gluten free. Here is a recipe without wheat: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~mjw/recipes/ethnic/injera.html









Thanks, talk about coming full circle... I used to make this on the Elimination Diet!







:

Wish us luck for tomorrow. Will be testing grains. And I have Rescue Remedy packed. (Forgot last time.







)


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
What was your issue with it?

The yogurt wasn't super tart at 24hrs meaning all lactose wasn't converted. I needed to add more starter or some of previous batch to get it to where it should be.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Thanks Milkamama









Regrouping indeed. That's a good idea re: fresh milk! I'm going to see if they will do it tomorrow...

Oh and to update: the coconut prick has gradually gotten a bigger wheal and is red after 48 hrs. And the peanut lump has gone down but is still there.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Wow.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Thanks Milkamama









Regrouping indeed. That's a good idea re: fresh milk! I'm going to see if they will do it tomorrow...

Oh and to update: the coconut prick has gradually gotten a bigger wheal and is red after 48 hrs. And the peanut lump has gone down but is still there.









Poor ds! How did he do during the testing?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Good luck tomorrow, JaneS!

*Anyone know anything about ketones/ketosis?*
I know low-carb diets can cause ketosis, but I figured with healthy foods it wasn't a big deal since the Eskimos don't eat any (or very few) carbs and are perfectly healthy. But then I was reading "The Untold Story of Milk" and it says that the Eskimos don't have problems with ketosis because they eat mostly raw meats and fats, and people fed the same foods but cooked did have problems with ketosis. So now I'm wondering if this really low-carb anti-candida is producing ketosis (I eat 50-80 grams of carbs a day).

I'm also wondering if that is why just about everyone doing this anti-candida diet is losing a lot of weight--it would make sense if everyone is in ketosis, since the Atkins diet is designed to stimulate weight loss by producing ketosis (I know there's more to the Atkins diet than that, though).


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Jane-I heated the coconut milk with honey and gelatin to 110. At 105 I mixed in the starter and added it to the quart jar. I added a bit of vanilla and stuck it in the dehydrator at 115 which keeps it at 105 internally. Same as before, this starter just didn't do it. It wasn't sour, it was just firm, sweet coconut milk-basically I made pudding. Maybe I'll do 1/4 tsp per quart and see if that makes a difference. It's just getting really pricey really fast.

What was your issue with it?

I know you are using a different starter but I was using 5-6 caplets of reuteri. This whole new way of eating is pricey! And then the suppliments that don't work out...


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Jane-your DS must be a little trooper! I hope the testing gives you the direction needed to help him heal. I was looking at my 'natural' laundry detergent and the cleanser in it is coconut derived, also the calendula lotion had cetyl alcohol from a coconut source, seems like coconut is everywhere.

On the candida diets...I did take diflucan when DS was 2 months old the midwife perscribed it for a 2 week course. I believe it got rid of some (most?) of it as many of my symptoms went away.(2 months later is when DS started having eczema.) I am guessing that the yeast died and my gut was left in a damaged state and so DS reacted badly to the food I was not digesting well. We have a long road ahead of us to heal and I do feel like SCD is helping us. No matter what diet one chooses to follow there are foods/suppliments that each of us do not tolerate and that once those foods are eliminated healing can progress (more)quickly. I don't know if that answers your question.


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## hippiemom2 (Oct 8, 2002)

Hello everyone! I was just thumbing through the thread and enjoying the many wonderful links. I am a student nurse and would who struggles with some gut issues and thought I would throw in my $.02:

Ketosis is when your liver is forced to make glucose because your body isn't taking in enough to supply your body's needs. The brain is greedy that way. It doesn't want anything but glucose. So, if you are spilling ketones in your urine you are officially "starving" or in a "starving state" which of course makes you lose weight. It is the basis of the Atkin's diet although at some point you were supposed to add them back in until you were no longer in ketosis but not gaining weight and that was your "optimine" level of carbs.

Hope that helps. Good luck ladies.

Peace,
Shelbi


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Good luck tomorrow, JaneS!

*Anyone know anything about ketones/ketosis?*
I know low-carb diets can cause ketosis, but I figured with healthy foods it wasn't a big deal since the Eskimos don't eat any (or very few) carbs and are perfectly healthy. But then I was reading "The Untold Story of Milk" and it says that the Eskimos don't have problems with ketosis because they eat mostly raw meats and fats, and people fed the same foods but cooked did have problems with ketosis. So now I'm wondering if this really low-carb anti-candida is producing ketosis (I eat 50-80 grams of carbs a day).

I'm also wondering if that is why just about everyone doing this anti-candida diet is losing a lot of weight--it would make sense if everyone is in ketosis, since the Atkins diet is designed to stimulate weight loss by producing ketosis (I know there's more to the Atkins diet than that, though).


This is hitting on something I have been concerned about as well. Those eskimos also eat whole fish, organs and all. And they eat organ meat as well and if given a choice let the muscle meat go in favor or organ meat. I think Bee is in danger of making the same mistake so many Americans make. Distilling it down to one or two things that we can do and then running with it with a largely american diet tweaked by this one thing (for her fat to protein ratio). Plenty of healthy cultures did not have that same ratio as the eskimos so it isn't the only healthy way to eat.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I tried a new way to make my yogurt tonight. Instead of using regular Dannon for my starter like I've been doing, I added some of the probiotic that I got from Custom Probiotics. I hope it will work as well as the capsules because I've been trying to give dd2 1/2 cap in water and she doesn't like it. (Neither do I!)

DD1 will drink it right up in o.j. but she had some pretty significant behavioral things go on 2 days later PLUS profuse sweating and extra sleeping . . oh, and constipation too for a day. She must be much more sensitive than dd2 because #2 doesn't seem to be affected at all (and I did get *some* in her.)


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Good luck tomorrow, JaneS!

*Anyone know anything about ketones/ketosis?*
I know low-carb diets can cause ketosis, but I figured with healthy foods it wasn't a big deal since the Eskimos don't eat any (or very few) carbs and are perfectly healthy. But then I was reading "The Untold Story of Milk" and it says that the Eskimos don't have problems with ketosis because they eat mostly raw meats and fats, and people fed the same foods but cooked did have problems with ketosis. So now I'm wondering if this really low-carb anti-candida is producing ketosis (I eat 50-80 grams of carbs a day).

I'm also wondering if that is why just about everyone doing this anti-candida diet is losing a lot of weight--it would make sense if everyone is in ketosis, since the Atkins diet is designed to stimulate weight loss by producing ketosis (I know there's more to the Atkins diet than that, though).


Yes, I'm wondering about this too. I have been trying to excercise more lately (semi-annual mandatory army fitness test coming up soon) and am wondering how the low-carb diet will affect my energy and muscle mass. I have always been told that the muscles need carbs for energy (especially when doing cardio). How does this play out when I am not eating many carbs? Do I need to add some higher carb (but still SCD legal) foods when I excercise? I do not want to lose any more weight, I have held steady for a couple of months.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

I have been doing reading on coconut-derived products since I am trying to eliminate them and see if it makes a difference with DS. Here is a (partial) list:

sodium lauryl/laureth sulfate (SLS and SLES)
ammonium lauryl sulfate
cocamideopropyl betain
cocamide MEA
coconut diethanolamide
cocamide sulphate
cocamide DEA, CDEA
cetyl alcohol (can be coconut derived)
any ingredient that says "vegetable based surficant" could be coconut derived
glycerin-could also be made from coconut but I don't know if the process in making it has purified all allergenic substances

A quick check revealed that all of my ('natural') personal and laundry products have coconut derived ingredients. Coconut allergies are not common, but allergic dermatitis to coconut products are not uncommon is what I gleaned from my readings.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Man, grains are addictive!
I've been eating NT oatmeal pretty often lately. With a ton of butter and CO. No sweetener. well it's my new comfort food. I have to get off grains again though as my candida seems to be out of control. Add progesterone. The eczema is just driving me nuts!!!!!!!!!! I can't sleep at night which never happened even during my pre-diet days. I feel like the yeast have gotten stronger instead of weaker during my healing the gut attempts.
I'm finding it really hard to give up oatmeal but I can do it, I can do it I can do it... I had been grain free for months almost a year and I've been just so discouraged that I have seen no improvement that I threw in the towel and allowed myself the oats several days a week.... very bad choice. My DDs are worse too. I need to restrict fruits and again and try no oatmeal for them either for a while. I just can't seem to get rid of diaper rashes. My 3-yold's behavior is getting intolerable and her eczema is coming back. She si either constipated of floaty. Today she was c. and her poor little but bled when she pooped. No wonder... my "dear" in-laws still feeding her SAD junk. and jelly beans!! In secret. But my baby spilled the beans so they are busted. I need to confront them about it. Also, they both wake up at night (they used to sleep good). And then I can't go back to sleep.
Pork is also out for DD #2. I gave her some the other day when everybody was eating pork chops. She was up half the night screeming. That was the only new thing. Or it could be CO? I might have given a little too much...

Oh mamas, I want to heal them and me once and for all!!!!!!

I need more success stories, please







:

has anybody tried fungal defense? I thought I'd give it a shot, it has the HSOs and cellulases, oregano and other killer herbs. it's cheaper than getting OOO and probiotics and enzymes separately but it's only a 2 weeks course. And then switch to Primal defense. Also has anybody used PD for Kids over 3 years? It has b. infantis, longum and breve, I think, plus s. boulardii. How does that sound? I miss the acidophilus though.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

So as many know I'm taking dd to the chiro 2x weekly. Last week I added colostrum to what she is taking. The chiro noticed a huge improvement in her that she thinks is from that. (colostrum supposedly is at least mildly anti-candida)

Also, we are doing those anthroposophical baths (or however you spell that







: ) and dd had a really rough weekend following our bath on friday. We are going to be doing one a week for 4 weeks and see where that gets us. She was super fussy and clingy all weekend and today when the chiro went to adjust her head/neck she was crawling away from her (not common). The chiro said that nearly all of todays adjustments were on her head. Well, when dd was born (according to my m/w who had a much better view) the ob who delivered her "popped her head out" and she (my m/w) was wondering the other night if many of her issues stem from that. Here we are seeing that it does seem to be a piece.

I really think that untill this birth trauma is resolved her health can't be resolved either. The go hand in hand and it is at times difficult to see where one stops and the other begins.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Every body has a different threshold for ketosis. If you are concerned you can buy very inexpensive strips at a drugstore. Just test once a day or so and make sure you aren't spilling. Ketosis is a dangerous state to be in, and if you see ketones in the urine you would want to correct that quickly. IT puts alot of stress on the liver. No point in taxing an already stressed body more than it already is!

Nolansmum-I would use reuteri, but I can't find any (so far) that is dairy free.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
Yes, I'm wondering about this too. I have been trying to excercise more lately (semi-annual mandatory army fitness test coming up soon) and am wondering how the low-carb diet will affect my energy and muscle mass. I have always been told that the muscles need carbs for energy (especially when doing cardio). How does this play out when I am not eating many carbs? Do I need to add some higher carb (but still SCD legal) foods when I excercise? I do not want to lose any more weight, I have held steady for a couple of months.

I've found that as long as I eat a lot of coconut oil I have plenty of energy...actually I feel better than I did on the SCD even though I get less sleep than I did then, and I really think it is just because of the CO. I eat a lot of it, though--8+ Tbsp/day.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
This is hitting on something I have been concerned about as well. Those eskimos also eat whole fish, organs and all. And they eat organ meat as well and if given a choice let the muscle meat go in favor or organ meat. I think Bee is in danger of making the same mistake so many Americans make. Distilling it down to one or two things that we can do and then running with it with a largely american diet tweaked by this one thing (for her fat to protein ratio). Plenty of healthy cultures did not have that same ratio as the eskimos so it isn't the only healthy way to eat.

I definitely don't agree with a lot of the people on the candidsupport group who think Bee's diet is the way to eat for life. However, I do see the point of special diets for healing (whether Bee's or the SCD or whatever). Actually hers is based on the Optimal Diet, which was invented by a Polish doctor who cured a lot of chronic and terminal diseases with it. Bee made some small modifications to it but the fat/protein/carb ratios are from that. And her diet is based on NT, so I don't think it's inherently unhealthy...other than maybe the ketosis thing which I really haven't figured out yet.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

saskiamom--I'm sorry you are feeling so discouraged. Hang in there, it will get better. If you feel really sick, you may want to back off a little--maybe stop the probiotics or the anti-fungals for a bit.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Jane, I just read that teff is "practically gluten free" so I don't know if it would be a good idea, anyway. Sorry. Maybe fried cheese?


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## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

Is anyone using dolomite powder for cal/mag? If so, how does it work?


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

I'm using dolomite. I just mix the powder in with water and chug it. I have no idea if it's better than another form. I do know it doesn't constipate, unlike the Solaray amino acid chelate cal/mag I bought. But I actually have somewhat loose stools. Am wondering whether it's mixing with the fat I eat and turning to soap as I've heard it can.
Please send me healing vibes, I've been down and not sure what to do about it. Dairy (cow's milk anyway) definitely gives me migraines, by the way.


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## OwensDadda-ee (Apr 20, 2006)

EBG,

I searched the forums for "diarrhea' and laned here.

Son has it, for a week now. Wonderedif it was fruit juice related and how he got it.

He LOVES apple juice and others. But jut the first page makes me think it is. What is SCD???


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OwensDadda-ee* 
EBG,

I searched the forums for "diarrhea' and laned here.

Son has it, for a week now. Wonderedif it was fruit juice related and how he got it.

He LOVES apple juice and others. But jut the first page makes me think it is. What is SCD???

Juice can definitely have a diuretic effect.

SCD is the Specific Carbohydrate Diet - many of us are on it for gut healing. It is grain-free, among other things. Google will give you a ton more info if you're so inclined.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
I'm using dolomite. I just mix the powder in with water and chug it. I have no idea if it's better than another form. I do know it doesn't constipate, unlike the Solaray amino acid chelate cal/mag I bought. But I actually have somewhat loose stools. Am wondering whether it's mixing with the fat I eat and turning to soap as I've heard it can.
Please send me healing vibes, I've been down and not sure what to do about it. Dairy (cow's milk anyway) definitely gives me migraines, by the way.

Sorry you are down. This diet is continuously challenging, especially if you feel like you are not healing. Sorry to hear about the cow's milk/migraine connection. Migraines are a bummer. Are there any other negative effects of cow's milk for you?


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

I got some ketone test strips (thanks for the recommendation FF). I have a small amount of ketones in my urine. I am glad this was mentioned, I never would have thought to test this.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

I think cow's milk also gives me the runs and makes me crabby.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyofPunkiePie* 
Is anyone using dolomite powder for cal/mag? If so, how does it work?


I am also using KAL dolomite. I don't know if it's doing anything. I feel like I need more magnesium, sometimes I can feel minor calf cramps coming on... I've also upped my potassium, so don't know. But the dolomite is cal/mag 2:1 and I feel I need more mag than that.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OwensDadda-ee* 
EBG,

I searched the forums for "diarrhea' and laned here.

Son has it, for a week now. Wonderedif it was fruit juice related and how he got it.

He LOVES apple juice and others. But jut the first page makes me think it is. What is SCD???

Yes, check out the cheat sheet, has info on SCD, too.
Juice shouldn't be given to children, especially not apple. Way too high in sugar, and apple juice is one of the highest. It also has pectin which is hard to digest for little ones if they have a gut problem. SCD allows juices but I disagree with that. Fruit itself is good as it is a whole food, with fiber and enzymes etc. Juices are basically fructose and water and very little other stuff. If it's not fresh and pasturized, there are no enyzmes and vitamins either, that's why they add ascorboc acid which is not a good form of C BTW.

Fruits and their juices are definitely diuretic, so don't overdo them. They might also make yeast problems worse.
Are there any other symptoms of anything besides diarrhea?

If he can't live without fruit juice, try to limit it to very diluted freshly juiced low sugar fruits like berries, maybe grape. But IMO it's better to forget it if you have D.

I give my 3-y-old some diluted juices very occassionally and no juie to my 1 y-old. She never tasted juice so she doesn't know to crave it.

Oh yeah, you ould try pure coconut juice. Without benzoates and sugar, just plain old c. juice, HFS-s and Whole foods have those. They are yummy.
Hope this helps...


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Anyone tried caprylic acid for yeast/fungus?


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG* 
I am also using KAL dolomite. I don't know if it's doing anything. I feel like I need more magnesium, sometimes I can feel minor calf cramps coming on... I've also upped my potassium, so don't know. But the dolomite is cal/mag 2:1 and I feel I need more mag than that.

related and definitely TMI. i think AF is finally coming back - though i thought that a few months ago too so i could be wrong. PMS-crampy for the past week, and i'm craving healthy foods that are loaded with B vitamins and magnesium (but not chocolate, go figure). at first i thought i had eaten something bad and really regressed but this is definitely not bowel crampy.

i'm up to 3 tsps of extra magnesium per day (for the past couple of days) and still could go higher. been doing extra kefir and bone broths too, so something is just burning through the mag. i've also added back evening primrose oil (which seems to help too).

do any of you notice that your various levels (minerals, vitamins, etc) go all wonky right before AF visits?


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Anyone tried caprylic acid for yeast/fungus?

i'm inclined to think that CO would be more effective - your body would recognize it as CO and know what to do with it. caprylic acid would be some capsule (i'm beginning to think that capsules aren't a great means to get something into the body) and not necessarily recognizd as the potent thing that it should be.

http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/n...cap_0056.shtml

note in this link the sentence under pharmacokinetics:
"Caprylic acid is absorbed from the intestine and, in contrast with long-chain fatty acids, immediately enters into the portal circulation. It is carried by blood lipids. Most ingested caprylic acid undergoes beta-oxidation in the liver."


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
saskiamom--I'm sorry you are feeling so discouraged. Hang in there, it will get better. If you feel really sick, you may want to back off a little--maybe stop the probiotics or the anti-fungals for a bit.

Thanks.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
i'm inclined to think that CO would be more effective - your body would recognize it as CO and know what to do with it. caprylic acid would be some capsule (i'm beginning to think that capsules aren't a great means to get something into the body) and not necessarily recognizd as the potent thing that it should be.

http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/n...cap_0056.shtml

note in this link the sentence under pharmacokinetics:
"Caprylic acid is absorbed from the intestine and, in contrast with long-chain fatty acids, immediately enters into the portal circulation. It is carried by blood lipids. Most ingested caprylic acid undergoes beta-oxidation in the liver."

Does this mean it's a bad thing: beta-oxidation?
Yes, I have capsules that my homeopath gave me and my intuition tells me not to take them. Well, that and the fact that I burped after taking one yesterday and the powder came back up in my throat.
















I haven't taken one since.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

My DH has been against SCD for quite a while, and now he's saying he thinks it's endangering my health (although he's not sure how or why -- says it's just a gut instinct). Are there any sources to show it's not unhealthy?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I don't know of any. I mean, how could it be unhealthy to eat only whole foods? If he's concerned about the lack of grains-there's plenty to show they may not be health promoting foods. As long as you're doing it by the book it really won't be a problem. If you are half doing it because you can't tolerate many foods that are allowed, then you may be running a risk.

What are his concerns? I know you said it was a gut instinct thing, but is he concerned about a lack of variety, the deviation from the SAD, not being in compliance with the food pyramid, too much protein etc? Where is he coming from? How does he think healthful eating looks? What does he want you to change?


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Does this mean it's a bad thing: beta-oxidation?
Yes, I have capsules that my homeopath gave me and my intuition tells me not to take them. Well, that and the fact that I burped after taking one yesterday and the powder came back up in my throat.
















I haven't taken one since.

beta-oxidation, i think, means that it becomes oxidized and, hence, changes form. that is, it is no longer caprylic acid.

anyway, the whole capsule thing... my ND and i were talking about the difference between capsules and oils and how the body would recognize oils for what they are and thus they are probably more effective for whatever purpose one is taking. it's kinda interesting that he gets people on capsules and then generally they end up moving to oils - or at least that was the impression that i got. it's kinda like - get people in the right direction, give them a nudge and let them come to some conclusions on their own.

anyhooo... i'll be using up my stash of stuff and then switching to some oils instead of these capsules i guess.

at least with my kefir, i'm now at a point where i don't need the extra probiotic (as long as i spike it occasionally with a powdered form).

still puzzled about the whole magnesium/epo thing though - at least the cramping is subsiding. no visible AF - also weird. maybe i'm just jumping straight into menopause


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## Godiva (Sep 5, 2005)

Woah this tread is huge! I can't get through all of it so I'm gonna just jump in.

I have a huge list of symptoms (lol basically every one you can have from candida issues) but the most troublesome are INTENSE intestinal pain (feels like someone is ripping a knife through me), weight gain, fatigue, joint pain, and constipation. I went to an ND and was dxed with magnesium deficency and supplements helped at first but not anymore. Then a few months ago I developed a rash in my skin folds. I just posted about this and someone suggested psoraisis but it doesn't look quite like what I have. And I've recently developed a vaginal yeast infection. I am positive now that I have a yeast overgrowth. I believe I may have had it for years actually. Starting when I was 10 I had a sore throat every single day til a tonsilectemy when I was 17. There was never a cause for it, just chronic sore throat. That same year my sore throat began, my vision started to go blurry. Since I've been eating less refined carbs/sugar and more ferments my vision is acutally improving. I'm starting to think my sore throat and vision problems were when my yeast problems started. I think they then exploded after extreme stress, birth control pills, antibiotics, and pregnancy all within a year. Now I feel like I'm 20 going on 50. I'm just starting to become concious of what it really takes to be healthy so I wanted to join you all and glean your wonderful wisdom!


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

I know this has been discussed more on a product-by-product basis, but do any of you use pre-packaged products that are technically "not advised" by BTVC because you've found that you don't react adversely? I've not had any reaction to Annie's mustard (so I use it) and I was hoping to get to use Spectrum mayonnaise once I heard back from the company, but in re-reading parts of the website, Elaine is so against using anything packaged. Any words of wisdom?

On one hand, I feel like I can trust what doesn't give me a reaction, but on the other hand this diet has been such an act of faith because I can't see actual _progress_ being made after 5 months (still react when I get the slightest bit of whatever on accident....). I know it takes time, but I'm in a low morale right now after seeing all of the recs online about eating oatmeal for healing leaky gut......







: Any boosts in morale would be appreciated.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

I have Zyme Prime and No Phenol, powdered form, that I am not taking any more. I would say that they are both more than half full. I will ship them at cost. PM me if interested.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Question for anti-candida mamas:
How many of you are *allowed* to eat cheese on your diet? I'm kind of going at this blind because I threw out my docs rec. list of what you can/can't eat.







(I am getting another tonight when dh gets home) but I'm pretty sure cheese is not allowed.

Also, I ate a bunch of tomatoes today. That was probably a no-no eh?


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## sphinxie (Feb 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Question for anti-candida mamas:
How many of you are *allowed* to eat cheese on your diet?

I am still figuring out what works for me, and if I'm truly an anti-candida diet person. But anyway, one of the books I read said that cheese would be fine except that mold grows on cheese. So if you're sure it's not moldy, it's fine. On the other hand that must not have been taking lactose into account.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Godiva* 
Woah this tread is huge! I can't get through all of it so I'm gonna just jump in.

I have a huge list of symptoms (lol basically every one you can have from candida issues) but the most troublesome are INTENSE intestinal pain (feels like someone is ripping a knife through me), weight gain, fatigue, joint pain, and constipation. I went to an ND and was dxed with magnesium deficency and supplements helped at first but not anymore. Then a few months ago I developed a rash in my skin folds. I just posted about this and someone suggested psoraisis but it doesn't look quite like what I have. And I've recently developed a vaginal yeast infection. I am positive now that I have a yeast overgrowth. I believe I may have had it for years actually. Starting when I was 10 I had a sore throat every single day til a tonsilectemy when I was 17. There was never a cause for it, just chronic sore throat. That same year my sore throat began, my vision started to go blurry. Since I've been eating less refined carbs/sugar and more ferments my vision is acutally improving. I'm starting to think my sore throat and vision problems were when my yeast problems started. I think they then exploded after extreme stress, birth control pills, antibiotics, and pregnancy all within a year. Now I feel like I'm 20 going on 50. I'm just starting to become concious of what it really takes to be healthy so I wanted to join you all and glean your wonderful wisdom!

Godiva, have you been screened for diabetes? I'm not educated on this at all, nor do I know how long symptoms take to develop, but chronic yeast, lethargy and blurry vision can all be signs of diabetes.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Just wanted to update on our situation. . .I've been giving dd Reuteri primodophilus and Culturelle for the past week. It's been a challenge to find foods she'll eat (we're dairy, soy, and grain-free), but I'm very motivated to find a solution. Since we cut out most fruit (because of the yeast overgrowth) and since we've been giving those supplements, her yeast rash and eczema are clearing up (from the latest flare-up, anyway) and her poop is getting more solid and normal everyday! I was thrilled when I changed her dipe this morning







:







But seriously, I'm so happy to find something that is making a difference. I bought Candizyme as well, but I probably won't introduce it for another week or so.

Thanks to everyone. I love this thread!


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## Godiva (Sep 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache* 
Godiva, have you been screened for diabetes? I'm not educated on this at all, nor do I know how long symptoms take to develop, but chronic yeast, lethargy and blurry vision can all be signs of diabetes.

That is something I ought to check. In the hospital after dd they checked it and the nurse made some comment of "oh your blood sugar is a bit ... (high or low, can't remeber which)" Nothing else was said though. My gpa does have diabetes and my diet was utter crap as a kid. Thank you for mentioning that!


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

ff, he seems to think I've got an unhealthy focus on food, and that it's causing me to obsess about it. Not sure what else his concerns are, when I ask, he really won't say what he thinks I'm missing.


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## Godiva (Sep 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
ff, he seems to think I've got an unhealthy focus on food, and that it's causing me to obsess about it. Not sure what else his concerns are, when I ask, he really won't say what he thinks I'm missing.

That seems a bit odd unless you have a history of eating disorders. Food is vital to life and the wrong foods can make you truly miserable so it makes sense to spend some time figuring out what is best for you to eat. I focus on food a lot too, but that's because I don't find life much fun while I'm doubled over in pain.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

to everyone who is having a tough time with their diets right now. Thank goodness for this thread-could you imagine toughing this out alone??
I wish there were a more scientific way to find out which foods do not agree with our system, with trial and error there are almost too many factors to consider.







:

I quit using CO last week and feel like it was the boost I needed. I know that many of us take a lot of it but it was holding me back. My digestion (and stools) have been consistently normal and i have been able to try a lot more new veggies and have been able to tolerate almond flour. I'm still following SCD but not eating fruit, eggs, or dairy (except small amounts of butter.) I think with the improvements I may be able to try low sugar fruit in the near future. I cut out all my suppliments and have slowly added back thropps enzymes, CLO and vitamin C, next is to add black currant oil (EPO felt like a rock in my tummy.)

FF-regarding your coconut yogurt that didn't turn out, did you add enough honey? The cultures need the honey to multiply.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I used the same amount as before and that's worked. I think it's the starter.


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

hey everyone,

the latest with us is that our youngest child has been diagnosed with a chronic inflamation of the eye called chronic anterior uveitis. Has anyone heard or dealt with this condition before?

She's being tested for auto immune diseases. I was thinking an anti inflamatory diet might be in order. We've greatly modified our scd recently because a couple of our children were too thin on it, and were not eating enough protien.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths* 
hey everyone,

the latest with us is that our youngest child has been diagnosed with a chronic inflamation of the eye called chronic anterior uveitis. Has anyone heard or dealt with this condition before?

She's being tested for auto immune diseases. I was thinking an anti inflamatory diet might be in order. We've greatly modified our scd recently because a couple of our children were too thin on it, and were not eating enough protien.

I was reading about this last week in my eye doctor's office but I'm sorry I can't relate anything I read.
I worry that my dds are getting too MUCH protein on the SCD. We're starting to branch out to include soaked grains and rice. Veeeeery slowly.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Anybody want to compare anti-candida diets?
This is what my homeopath suggested for us: (Aside from the obvious no sugar or yeast.)
No dairy or milk products.
No popcorn, peanuts or p.butter

Foods Allowed:
sweeteners such as stevia, sugar free cnady, murry's cookies' Hershey's sugar-free chocolate, sugar-free pudding.

rice cakes, Kavli crackers, Triscuits, corn chips, tortillas, potato chips, corn nuts

herbal teas, no more than 3 caffeine products a day

soy cheese, nut cheese, veggie cheese

all nuts except peanuts

All the *allowed* foods seem like a bunch of junk to me and a lot on this list has me









I'm on day 2 so I'll give it a go and see what happens. But I am going to do a *little* cheese because I just can't do without it.


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

I read a bit of the thread in NT about CLO brands and their potential tox. I cant find it. Im going to start CLO ... (although I eat chicken liver regularly..) and want to get a *good* brand. Recommendations?


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Also wanted to comment on the ketosis topic. I read awhile back that when you are eating so much protien you produce a lot of ammonia as a byproduct, and candida feed on ammonia. Anyone heard of this? The source recommended eating carbs once or twice a week to give enough food to the good bugs. Would the low carb veggies suffice, I wonder?


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Anybody want to compare anti-candida diets?
This is what my homeopath suggested for us: (Aside from the obvious no sugar or yeast.)
No dairy or milk products.
No popcorn, peanuts or p.butter

Foods Allowed:
sweeteners such as stevia, sugar free cnady, murry's cookies' Hershey's sugar-free chocolate, sugar-free pudding.

rice cakes, Kavli crackers, Triscuits, corn chips, tortillas, potato chips, corn nuts

herbal teas, no more than 3 caffeine products a day

soy cheese, nut cheese, veggie cheese

all nuts except peanuts

All the *allowed* foods seem like a bunch of junk to me and a lot on this list has me









I'm on day 2 so I'll give it a go and see what happens. But I am going to do a *little* cheese because I just can't do without it.


I think it depends how strict you want to be about it. On the strict end of the spectrum, you eat only protien, low carb veggies, and good fats. This is what I am doing. But I know others have succes incorporating some low carb grains, nuts, and fermented dairy. I actually dont understand how a reeaallly aged cheese could have much lactose, but I guess the concern there is the mold? My *cheat*, which seems to come up about once a week, is a few soaked almonds







I think the candida diet you use depends on your body and its needs for rebalance and detox?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Wow Annikate, there's alot of crapola on that list! I go back to the SCD thing though. I believe aspartame is legal on the diet-that does not mean that it's advised or heathful, just that it isn't harmful or that it's contributing to the yeast/bacteria overgrowth. I did the SCD but never once ingested it. So take what's health promoting, leave what's not.

Saskia's mom- what I have learned is that we each have individual thresholds and you can't follow any book by the letter. You are correct about the protein thing. However it isn't all that relevant if I can eat 100 grams before reaching that point and you can only eat 50. KWIM? It's about the amount of protein your body deals well with-same with carbs. I found pH testing to be invaluable in this situation.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
Wow Annikate, there's alot of crapola on that list! I go back to the SCD thing though. I believe aspartame is legal on the diet-that does not mean that it's advised or heathful, just that it isn't harmful or that it's contributing to the yeast/bacteria overgrowth. I did the SCD but never once ingested it. So take what's health promoting, leave what's not.

Saskia's mom- what I have learned is that we each have individual thresholds and you can't follow any book by the letter. You are correct about the protein thing. However it isn't all that relevant if I can eat 100 grams before reaching that point and you can only eat 50. KWIM? It's about the amount of protein your body deals well with-same with carbs. I found pH testing to be invaluable in this situation.

No kidding about the crap, but now I'm finding myself imagining eating that artificially sweetened junk.









Please explain about the pH testing. I know dd & I have to make our bodies more alkaline right? So how did you use the saliva strips? and how did you do it? Did you test after rating certain foods or what? I'd love to try this.

Oh, and our intuitive friend confirmed for me yesterday that dd & I both have yeast. I didn't have the time to get details about this but she did confirm that we had chosen an excellent DAN doc for dd. We made this appt, 3 months ago & it's on the 16th of October.


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Please explain about the pH testing. I know dd & I have to make our bodies more alkaline right? So how did you use the saliva strips? and how did you do it? Did you test after rating certain foods or what? I'd love to try this.

Ditto


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I use urine strips. I know you can get strips that are both for salivary and urine testing, but I think the urine is more accurate. I test in the morning before eating. I then will test throughout the day. I had the advantage (?) of testing myself with different diets so it was pretty clear what I should be eating. I tested as a high protein/fat raw vegan, as a low fat/protein raw vegan, as an omni that rarely ate meat and again as an omni that ate alot of meat. I tested after reading and doing the metabolic typing test and my results were consistent with that test.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Interesting. I wonder if I could get an accurate sample from a diaper?


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
I tested after reading and doing the metabolic typing test

??? Whu?

Selenium - how much do you take? How much in 2 brazil nuts?

Anyone for CLO recs? Nordic Naturals ok? (after reading about potential metal toxicity in some brands, such that WAPF is not recommending some they used to... )


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

firefaery said:


> Wow Annikate, there's alot of crapola on that list! I go back to the SCD thing though. I believe aspartame is legal on the diet-that does not mean that it's advised or heathful, just that it isn't harmful or that it's contributing to the yeast/bacteria overgrowth. I did the SCD but never once ingested it. So take what's health promoting, leave what's not.
> 
> Aspartame is not legal on SCD and is very harmful.
> Saccharin is legal. That's the only artifcial sweetener on SCD. Elaine did some research and concluded that saccharin is safe and the whole hoopla about it causing cancer is based on one vague rat study and that it's the aspartame industry who is trying to get it demonized.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
ff, he seems to think I've got an unhealthy focus on food, and that it's causing me to obsess about it. Not sure what else his concerns are, when I ask, he really won't say what he thinks I'm missing.

I hear you... same exact situ here


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *EBG*
Aspartame is not legal on SCD and is very harmful.
Saccharin is legal. That's the only artifcial sweetener on SCD. Elaine did some research and concluded that saccharin is safe and the whole hoopla about it causing cancer is based on one vague rat study and that it's the aspartame industry who is trying to get it demonized.
I know it's not legal on SCD. I've been doing SCD since January. I'm still mostly SCD but have recently added some grains. I am now doing anti-candida too (not because I have issues that I'm aware of, but my homeopath thinks I should do it for b'feeding dd.) I was just posting the anti-candida diet to see if anyone else thought it was a little ummm . . . *junky*? (I'm being sarcastic here.)


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
I use urine strips. I know you can get strips that are both for salivary and urine testing, but I think the urine is more accurate. I test in the morning before eating. I then will test throughout the day. I had the advantage (?) of testing myself with different diets so it was pretty clear what I should be eating. I tested as a high protein/fat raw vegan, as a low fat/protein raw vegan, as an omni that rarely ate meat and again as an omni that ate alot of meat. I tested after reading and doing the metabolic typing test and my results were consistent with that test.

Is this the Dr. Mercola metabolic test you're speaking of? I was just readin g about the metabolic typing on his website. So ratios of protein/carbs/fat will directly affect your acid/alkaline balance? And we want to be Ph neutral? Do you have a website to recommend explaining this subject more? The one's I found were all selling something.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Another thing to think about...how do you separate exhaustion from lack of sleep from not the right diet exhaustion? I always feel better when I get a nice 2 hour nap in the afternoon









CLO: I use Quantum, someone here recommended it.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I went to whole foods today to get some ketone testing strips. I'm a bit nervous about how few carbs dd and I eat so I wanted to make sure we are ok in that dept. They said they don't carry those, just the ph ones. What would the ph ones do for us? I didn't get any.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I like the book The Metabolic Typing Diet. It has a test in it, and Mercola has two as well. The free one just gives you an idea-it's not that in depth.

Sorry-it's been awhile since I read Elaine's guidlines and since I don't use any sweetener but honey and occasionally dates I remembered incorrectly. I don't tend to retain what is insignificant to me.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
I like the book The Metabolic Typing Diet. It has a test in it, and Mercola has two as well. The free one just gives you an idea-it's not that in depth.

Sorry-it's been awhile since I read Elaine's guidlines and since I don't use any sweetener but honey and occasionally dates I remembered incorrectly. I don't tend to retain what is insignificant to me.









Do you feel like finding your metabolic type has helped you tailor SCD to better work for you?


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

BTW, the chiro told me my son needed more protein because on the SCd he had become so thin. I questioned him and found that he hadn't been eating the meat, only fruit, veggies, cheese and nuts & eggs. So that's why I think he got really thin, but I'm still not sure on that. Anyone else have trouble keeping weight on the SCD?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

No, the SCD worked for me before I did the MT test. It helped me figure out WHY it worked for me and confirm what I need to be doing.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Annikate, ITA about that diet -- so full of junk and contradictory, too. Soy cheese? That has casein in it, you know. I know I have friends who have done similar diets, but that one just doesn't make sense to me. Sugar-free pudding and sugar-free chocolate have dairy in them. Triscuits have gluten in them -- very hard to digest -- and are so processed what possible nutrition can be gotten from them? Is it just to fill up?

Bestbirths, yes, ds is quite thin on SCD. He's mostly eating fruit, which I think is his problem. Can't force feed him the good stuff, unfortunately.


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## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

There is a list of candida diet no-no's in _Is This Your Child?_ by Doris Rapp. If anyone's interested, I'll post it later.


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## treehugginhippie (Nov 29, 2004)

Prior to starting the SCD diet I did the urine test strip and it didn't change at all...stayed yellow (acidic I believe). I took another one since I've done SCD for 8 weeks now...it was PERFECT! I know the SCD has worked great for my body!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Awesome. hat was my experience too. My friend had me do one almost two years ago and I was following Eat to Live which means I was vegan and had maybe one serving of grain a day (usually not) and lived on veggies and beans. I was very acidic and my friend (a nutritionist) kept insisting I was eating a ton of refined floury products. Not at all. I should have been alkaline, but that wasn't the right diet for my body. The SCD gets me to where I should be exactly. Well, to be fair, no grains, lots of veggies and meat gets me where I need to be which is why SCD works for me.


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Selenium - too much = gi upset, hair loss, white blotchy nails, garlic breath odor. The *healthy* window is 200-600mcg. First number in chart is mcg per indicated ammount of food, second number is % daily value (according to rda)

Table 1: Selected food sources of selenium [11]

Brazil nuts, dried, unblanched, 1 ounce544780
Tuna, light, canned in oil, drained, 3 ounces6395
Beef, cooked, 3½ ounces3550
Spaghetti w/ meat sauce, frozen entrée, 1 serving3450
Cod, cooked, 3 ounces3245
Turkey, light meat, roasted, 3½ ounces3245
Beef chuck roast, lean only, roasted, 3 ounces2335
Chicken Breast, meat only, roasted, 3½ ounces2030
Noodles, enriched, boiled, 1/2 cup1725
Macaroni, elbow, enriched, boiled, 1/2 cup1520
Egg, whole, 1 medium1420
Cottage cheese, low fat 2%, 1/2 cup1215
Oatmeal, instant, fortified, cooked, 1 cup 1215
Rice, white, enriched, long grain, cooked, 1/2 cup1215
Rice, brown, long-grained, cooked, 1/2 cup1015
Bread, enriched, whole wheat, commercially prepared, 1 slice1015
Walnuts, black, dried, 1 ounce58
Bread, enriched, white, commercially prepared, 1 slice46
Cheddar cheese, 1 ounce46


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

I want to try red peppers (specifically roasted fermented red peppers) but I am worried that they could make DS react. I feel like I have read that they are a highly allergenic food, is this correct or am I getting paranoid?


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

red peppers are a nightshade, like tomatoes and potatoes, and a lot of people do have problems with them. I think you want to wait until your babe is a year old before introducing it, but I can't be sure. I know that's true with tomatoes, but it might be the acid in them.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

The nightshade family (tomatoes, peppers, eggplant, potatoes etc.) is very problematic for some people. I would avoid if you have known sensitivities for sure.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Thank you, I have avoided the other nightshades up to this point too. The red peppers were for me







, DS is starting only basic solids-turkey, lamb, parsnip, green beans, squash, peas, and sweet potato. He sure loves his solids! if I am eating he MUST eat or he throws a fit and he grabs at the food because we don't feed him fast enough


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

First the good news - the LO has pooped once a day 4 days in a row!!!!! Still no seeds, but at least she's pooping. Now - on to my question - what do you think it means if I am suddenly yucked out by coconut oil? I mean the mere thought of it makes me want to hurl. And of course this is coming right after I just bought a 29 oz jar of it. I was pretty in love with it at the start of SCD a month ago. Anyway - would love your thoughts on if this is my body's way of saying to stay away or is there something else that could be driving this? It's one of my few sources of fat (doing no dairy) . . .


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou* 
First the good news - the LO has pooped once a day 4 days in a row!!!!! Still no seeds, but at least she's pooping. Now - on to my question - what do you think it means if I am suddenly yucked out by coconut oil? I mean the mere thought of it makes me want to hurl. And of course this is coming right after I just bought a 29 oz jar of it. I was pretty in love with it at the start of SCD a month ago. Anyway - would love your thoughts on if this is my body's way of saying to stay away or is there something else that could be driving this? It's one of my few sources of fat (doing no dairy) . . .

I would skip it for now. You may have just gotten too much of it and need a break. What about Ghee? Olive Oil? Palm oil? Do you eat meat? I got a duck several months ago and cooked out the duck fat. I still have it in my fridge and use it to cook in. It is super yummy.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

About us.

I tried a whey drink today. It didn't taste bad but now dd is wired at bedtime so I'm nervous that is why. We did have a strange day today though so I'm not sure what to think. I may be changing too many things at once.









We did another therapeutic bath last night. (healing from birth trauma). Tonight at dinner time she told a story about a nurse who was holding her and she cried and cried because she wanted some milk and then the nurse poked something in her face and then handed her to mommy. (DD was taken from me at birth and suctioned for meconium and then handed to me briefly before her trip to the nicu). She did insist that after she was handed to me she got to stay with me so I'm not sure what to make of it. DH and I were looking at each other through the whole thing trying to make sense out of it.

We just started the Reuteri. I'm impressed at it's supposed ability to colonize the gut unlike other lactobaccili. I'm so worn out by all of this lately.

And I think that DD has Sensory Integration Disorder. I'm not sure if it is obvious enough to get her free therapy for it though. I think that is why she doesn't sleep, nurses all the time, and a bunch of strange behaviors that she has that haven't ever made sense before. Yet another thing for me to research and try to help her with. I got a book with exercises we can do with her to help her. It makes a lot of sense but it is just one more thing to do...I just want us healed!


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou* 
First the good news - the LO has pooped once a day 4 days in a row!!!!! Still no seeds, but at least she's pooping. Now - on to my question - what do you think it means if I am suddenly yucked out by coconut oil? I mean the mere thought of it makes me want to hurl. And of course this is coming right after I just bought a 29 oz jar of it. I was pretty in love with it at the start of SCD a month ago. Anyway - would love your thoughts on if this is my body's way of saying to stay away or is there something else that could be driving this? It's one of my few sources of fat (doing no dairy) . . .

CO isn't for everyone. I was using a lot of CO and then my chiropractor/nutritionist suggested I cut it out for a while and I feel so much better without it. It was holding me back from healing. I have been cutting it out of my life completely (shampoo, soap, laundry soap, lotion all have coconut derived ingredients) and my skin has been far less itchy/crawly. Listen to your body


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

I am also sick of CO, and it tastes like "yuck" to me (ds's words). I think I had too much of it, too. How about ghee? It's lactose and casein free. Kinda pricey, though. How about unrefined sunflower oil? Avocados?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Different people can handle different things. I live on CO-have for a long time and I seem to do well with it. We used to do clarified butter, but ds can't handle it.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
About us.

And I think that DD has Sensory Integration Disorder. I'm not sure if it is obvious enough to get her free therapy for it though. I think that is why she doesn't sleep, nurses all the time, and a bunch of strange behaviors that she has that haven't ever made sense before. Yet another thing for me to research and try to help her with. I got a book with exercises we can do with her to help her. It makes a lot of sense but it is just one more thing to do...I just want us healed!

If you haven't yet read Children With Starving Brains by McCandless you should go get it. It's a must-read imo.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

*Question about starting solids*: I keep reading that it is best to let babies self-feed, but anything DD can self feed she doesn't digest. Wouldn't it make more sense to feed her pureed stuff that she can digest, with maybe a few bigger chunks occasionally for her to practice self-feeding with? Or maybe I could get one of those little mesh feeders that you put food in and they gnaw on it through the mesh baggie.

*firefaery*--do you know if there's a difference between what a colon cleanse does and doing a vitamin C flush (lots of vitamin C until you get diarrhea)? Does the colon cleanse do anything "extra"?

*Coconut milk yogurt or kefir*--any thoughts on whether one of these would be good to give DD as a first food to get some more probiotics into her?

Somewhere in all my reading on various topics, I read something about it being good to take enzymes in between meals to replenish your body's natural store of enzymes that can get depleted eating all cooked foods. Replenishing enzymes was supposed to allow the extra enzymes to heal your body of different things. *Any thoughts on this?*


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
*Question about starting solids*: I keep reading that it is best to let babies self-feed, but anything DD can self feed she doesn't digest. Wouldn't it make more sense to feed her pureed stuff that she can digest, with maybe a few bigger chunks occasionally for her to practice self-feeding with? Or maybe I could get one of those little mesh feeders that you put food in and they gnaw on it through the mesh baggie.

the mesh feeder was awesome! i would often put pieces of apple in it (ds is an apple fiend). ice when he was teething (before he go the hang of stuffing the whole ice cube in his mouth). it was a lifesaver the weekend in February when ds had rotavirus. he alternated between nursing and apple in the mesh feeder. thouhg our living room did look like a fruit pit for a while, complete with ants in the early spring - from all that fruit juice slung around.

if he hadn't been in daycare where they really push self-feeding, i would have used it a whole lot longer. as it were, he wanted to use the spoon.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Argh! I'm so frustrated with dd's diet. Anything she'll eat consistently isn't good for her--like grains and fruit. I have the hardest time getting her to eat vegetables. Eggs and meat are hit and miss. I'm not sure what to do. I have wasted so much Reuteri and Culturelle because I'll dump it into food she won't end up eating.







: Any ideas?

Also, if you're dealing with eczema, do different foods cause different problems for you? In dd, dairy leads to raw, red streaks behind dd's knees and under her arms, but soy leads to crusty patches all over body (particularly, her cheek, legs, and back). Anyone know anything about that?

I'm considering taking dd to the doctor this week. I don't know this FP very well, but she's somewhat holistic-minded. She was the one that prescribed a steroid-antifungal cream for dd's eczema/yeast rashes. I've hardly used it because it only eliminates symptoms but doesn't get to the root of the problem. I really want her to prescribe a liquid form of Diflucan, but I don't know if she will. I hate using medicine, but I'm feeling really desperate at this point. Any thoughts on that? Reasons why or why not?


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
*Question about starting solids*: I keep reading that it is best to let babies self-feed, but anything DD can self feed she doesn't digest. Wouldn't it make more sense to feed her pureed stuff that she can digest, with maybe a few bigger chunks occasionally for her to practice self-feeding with? Or maybe I could get one of those little mesh feeders that you put food in and they gnaw on it through the mesh baggie.


I read about self feeding also and while it is good in theory for development I didn't want to do that to his gut since he had a poor start (yeast.) I give DS the foods I started with on SCD, all cooked and pureed at first, we are getting into chunks now and sometimes we give him food to pick up and put in his mouth on his own. It is easy to add probiotics and vit c to his pureed food. DH commented today that DS's (solid) food is yummy and always smells delicious. It is a relief for me to have DS eating solids now, it was getting to the point where I couldn't pump enough milk at work while I was away from him. I hate to make it seem like DS is a guinee pig but it has almost been easier to pinpoint some of his sensitive foods because he has a quicker reaction than if I eat it and then nurse a couple hrs later.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Caedmyn-a big old yes for the coconut yogurt! IT would be a great first food.

A colon cleanse will get alot more. By mouth you are taking alot of fiber which acts as a broom to the intestines. IT will clear out stuff that is caked on (nice, huh?) Doing a colonic will get even more.

Self feeding-this is such an important part in the baby's development. She can't do pieces of avacado, squash etc. on her own? Are you really limited in foods beyond the SCD or anti-candida? There's plenty that you can make that's legal that would be more "solid" and baby friendly.

Chinese Pistache-why diflucan? That is so hard on the liver. Have you considered Nystatin as an alternative if you feel a perscription is necessary? You can get it sugar free, and it is far less harmful. The best way to get it is from England in a powdered form that you can "compound" yourself.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 

Self feeding-this is such an important part in the baby's development. She can't do pieces of avacado, squash etc. on her own? Are you really limited in foods beyond the SCD or anti-candida? There's plenty that you can make that's legal that would be more "solid" and baby friendly.

He gets peas, sweet potato chunks , chunks of meat, little chunks of carrot, but the main portion of his food is smooth still. I realize it is important for development too but he is a HUNGRY little guy and I need him to get full on the solids too. I just could not keep up with the BM. So far anything raw he has tried (avocados, bananas, apple) has given him a rash (bright red skin around his mouth with little white bumps) within a minute of eating it. The banana he tried last week brought on a huge flair up of eczema and he had loose stool for 3 days.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

So inspired by Jane I have started looking for a DAN! Dr for my dd. I found two local. I then went to Generation Rescue and asked about them.

One (according to his website) costs $155 for the initial appointment, he will bill insurance but won't guarentee that they will pay. He is essentially an allergist and I have been warned he will want to do lots of testing/needles. DD is totally freaked out about needles.

The other is $500 for the initial appointment and will provide me with a form to submit to insurance myself. Insurance may or may not pay anything.

Guess which one the Generation Rescue Angels in my area recomended. Both had seen the cheaper guy initally and now recomend the other one. There is no way we can afford the second one. Frankly the first one is a stretch but if we get better... Of course neither of those fees includes any testing or treatment. How the heck am I supposed to put a price limit on getting my DD better? And yet how can I justify spending that much money going to see a Dr who may or may not actually help us? I'm just feeling sick over all of this.

That said, dd is having a really good day today and slept well last night (for her). I am wondering if we are turning a corner though. We have been off fruit for over 2 months and off dairy for nearly 6 weeks at this point. I have also been giving the reuteri for a few days now.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I was supposed to have a DAN appt. a couple of months ago (with a doctor I waited THREE months to see) and they screwed up the appointments. I took this as a sign and scheduled w/another doc (for phone consult since he's in OH) and our appt. is in mid-October.

I'm glad I waited because it gave me time to read the book I mentioned before by McCandless.

If you can't afford the doc why don't you read this book? The author very clearly lays everything out and you can get started on your own. It's very eye-opening.

Personally, I wouldn't just go with *any* DAN doc. I'd talk to people and see what they say. My first DAN was recommended by Bradstreet's office (the BIG guy) and wasn't too far from us. Then after talking w/some mamas I found that this new guy is supposed to be better. We'll see. I have high hopes.

Good luck.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I'm going to get that book. I'm just feeling like I'm stuck and not seeing the forest for the trees right now. We've been at this for a long time. I hate to think that all our effort is going in the wrong direction.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I hear ya. That's why I'm keeping this DAN appt. While I feel (and know) that dd has made tremendous progress because of all the things we've done so far I want to be sure I'm not missing anything and want to check and make sure I'm on the right track yk?

It is soooo hard doing this and persevering through it. I promise, after reading that book you'll pat yourself on the back for all the *right* things you have done already.


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

http://www.jigsawhealth.com/products...idophilus.html

This is a link to a brand of probiotics I think Im going to try after reading around. Here's why I like them; no FOS, doesnt have a ton of strains, and those it has I like, large number CFU, and not least, their page on treating candida is very comprehensive, including mention of a fund (cant think of a better word) whereby they will contribute to you having your mercury fillings out. On the left of the page click on candida; many of the *ingredients* used in treating candida are highlighted with specific info about them (herbs, vitamins, minerals, etc), and then at the very bottom of the page is the mention about the mercury fund. What do you all think? Have you heard of this brand?

Pattyls - hugs mama. You have been working soo hard. Hang in there!


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

*Milk thistle* - how do I use it? I got some seeds at the hfs, soaked them in water to make tean, and thee water stayed clear, no taste. Should I grind the seeds first? I dont get it







:







(ummm, FF? ...







: )


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I often just grind them into my smoothie. however to make an infusion out of it you will get more benefit grinding them first. make sure they steep covered for at least half an hour if you are planning on straining the tea.


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

I'm currently SCD with no dairy, and have been for a month (well, except for a brief go at the 24 hour yogurt and then back off it). Before that I was dairy free and on a traditional elimination diet for 6 weeks. With my limited foods (SCD, but still adding new foods every 3-4 days, so I'm only up to about 20 foods total), dd is no longer yakking and screaming, and she looks so good - healthy skin and eyes and so totally happy. We're also on day 5 of her pooping every day (before that it was once every 5-8). Still no seeds, but other than that the poop looks great.

So, I've been thinking of introducing a few limited grains back into my diet and using them sparingly. I will admit that one of the main drivers is that I've just come back to work full time and it is sooooo hard to do this while working (I used to eat bfast on the way to work and grab lunch out, and now I have to make sure I have all my food cooked and ready to go in addition to everything else). But I'm also dreaming about oats, and I keep feeling like I need them. Not like I used to crave chocolate, but how I now crave avacados and beef and things that I think my body needs. I was eating oats before and it didn't trigger a yakking or screaming fit with dd. But my main concern is that I could be doing unseen damage if I start back. As slow as progress seems with all this sometimes, I definately don't want to undo some good that I've done. So, if I start oats and she keeps pooping well and nothing negative seems to happen, should I consider them a go or should I just play it safe and stay away?

Also - do any of you worry about creating nut allergies by eating all these nuts? I used to rarely eat almonds and now I eat them, in some form, every day. I worry that I'm going to create more allergies/intolerances while trying to fix the ones she has now. I'm trying to start getting my head around some kind of rotational diet within the SCD parameters, but it is hard with the limited foods I have now.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou* 
I'm currently SCD with no dairy, and have been for a month (well, except for a brief go at the 24 hour yogurt and then back off it). Before that I was dairy free and on a traditional elimination diet for 6 weeks. With my limited foods (SCD, but still adding new foods every 3-4 days, so I'm only up to about 20 foods total), dd is no longer yakking and screaming, and she looks so good - healthy skin and eyes and so totally happy. We're also on day 5 of her pooping every day (before that it was once every 5-8). Still no seeds, but other than that the poop looks great.

So, I've been thinking of introducing a few limited grains back into my diet and using them sparingly. I will admit that one of the main drivers is that I've just come back to work full time and it is sooooo hard to do this while working (I used to eat bfast on the way to work and grab lunch out, and now I have to make sure I have all my food cooked and ready to go in addition to everything else). But I'm also dreaming about oats, and I keep feeling like I need them. Not like I used to crave chocolate, but how I now crave avacados and beef and things that I think my body needs. I was eating oats before and it didn't trigger a yakking or screaming fit with dd. But my main concern is that I could be doing unseen damage if I start back. As slow as progress seems with all this sometimes, I definately don't want to undo some good that I've done. So, if I start oats and she keeps pooping well and nothing negative seems to happen, should I consider them a go or should I just play it safe and stay away?

Also - do any of you worry about creating nut allergies by eating all these nuts? I used to rarely eat almonds and now I eat them, in some form, every day. I worry that I'm going to create more allergies/intolerances while trying to fix the ones she has now. I'm trying to start getting my head around some kind of rotational diet within the SCD parameters, but it is hard with the limited foods I have now.


I wouldn't do grains just yet. I'd give yourself some more time. I've been doing this 9 months? (I loose track) and *just* started slooowly introducing grains. I was tempted before, but the other wise mamas here steered me away.

In re: to the nut allergy thing, I've been thinking the same thing. I posted this because I've also been concerned about this.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Ok, I'm weak. I'm almost ashamed to say it but there is an upside to this post.

I caved and bought Murray's cookies. (If that stupid anti-candida diet didn't list them I wouldn't have even known of their existence.)

So, I ate several and the next day dh said, "hey, did you realize that there is wheat in those?"









In my gluttony, and my desire for something sweet, I *completely* overlooked the fact that they were, of course, made from flour.









Good news is: dd had no reactions whatsoever. Now, back when we started this I cheated and ate a *tiny* piece of pizza crust and she got the red, puffy eyes w/dark circles, red bumps underneath and didn't sleep for a week.

So . . . that's progress.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Nolansmum, what about blueberries? They are lower sugar than bananas and less allergenic, other than the salicylates. DS always loved them. Oh, and some stir-fried broccoli spears can be good, although ds never liked them. Have you tried winter squash yet? It's SCD legal (unlike sweet potato), and often very popular with kids (not mine, but many). Cut it into cubes and steam it, it will cook faster. Same with beets (ds preferred the gold beets, which are much harder to find). Try green beans, too (I like them better boiled in salt water than steamed).


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
Nolansmum, what about blueberries? They are lower sugar than bananas and less allergenic, other than the salicylates. DS always loved them. Oh, and some stir-fried broccoli spears can be good, although ds never liked them. Have you tried winter squash yet? It's SCD legal (unlike sweet potato), and often very popular with kids (not mine, but many). Cut it into cubes and steam it, it will cook faster. Same with beets (ds preferred the gold beets, which are much harder to find). Try green beans, too (I like them better boiled in salt water than steamed).

I really want to try blueberries! Mostly for myself.







We have been enjoying all the other foods you mentioned. He has liked everything I have given him, but I admit I am a little sneaky and always mix a new food in with something else like winter squash. I am keeping my fingers crossed, but DS's cheeks are almost clear. I ate something at breakfeast yesterday (either carrot or beet greens) that resulted in red bumps but they are healing. I may try the beets on him tomorrow and see what reaction we get.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 

Chinese Pistache-why diflucan? That is so hard on the liver. Have you considered Nystatin as an alternative if you feel a perscription is necessary? You can get it sugar free, and it is far less harmful. The best way to get it is from England in a powdered form that you can "compound" yourself.

See, that's why I posted here first. I didn't know diflucan was hard on the liver. I'd read about it on Bee's site and she seemed to think it was safe. Then, when I got to researching it more, it was the only one I found to come in liquid form. I've used anti-fungal creams on dd's yeast rashes, but it always comes back, so I wanted something that would deal with it at the gut level.

Sigh. I'm just feeling like there is no end to this yeast, food allergy stuff through diet alone. Every "success" story I've read, including Bee's, suggests that there isn't ever a cure, just simply maintenance. And I can't see eating such a limited diet for the rest of my life (or dd's for that matter). My other kids and dh don't have any issues with these foods and it's such an enormous hassle to prepare foods they'll all eat. I used to enjoying cooking. . .and we used to do so much "from scratch" cooking, including grinding our own wheat or spelt, but now we don't. And without dairy, we're limited even further. I just wish I knew there was an "end," you know?

Anyway, I'm going to hold off on the doctor visit for now. I just got back from WF where I got lots of SCD and anti-candida foods. I'm trying to find some joy in food prep again, and hopefully, I can find some foods that dd will enjoy. I've been giving her applesauce in order to sneak in her probiotics. I know this isn't the greatest, but at least she's eating them.

Anyway, off to finish the SCD recipe thread over at N&GE


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 







Ok, I'm weak. I'm almost ashamed to say it but there is an upside to this post.

I caved and bought Murray's cookies. (If that stupid anti-candida diet didn't list them I wouldn't have even known of their existence.)

So, I ate several and the next day dh said, "hey, did you realize that there is wheat in those?"









In my gluttony, and my desire for something sweet, I *completely* overlooked the fact that they were, of course, made from flour.









Good news is: dd had no reactions whatsoever. Now, back when we started this I cheated and ate a *tiny* piece of pizza crust and she got the red, puffy eyes w/dark circles, red bumps underneath and didn't sleep for a week.

So . . . that's progress.










That's big progress! Enjoy them for all of us







. Have you made any SCD legal cookies yet or are you staying away from honey?


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

DD possibly allergic to lettuce????
She gets these hives around her mouth after eating lettuce, (I think it's the lettuce). romaine. Strange...but I know she has a leaky gut and yeast issues. I've been trying to give more raw veggies for the enzymes, like tomatoes, cucumbers and lettuce. How come she has no reaction to DH's SAD peanut butter but she does to lettuce?


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## haleyelianasmom (Nov 5, 2005)

I'm new to the "Healing the Gut" scene, but I think I may need it. Any insight would be helpful. These threads are so huge, they're hard to read through to get good information, but I'm trying.

I think I have a yeast overgrowth. I've never had any yeast infections other than one on my breast about 8 or 9 months ago and I ended up having to go on diflucan to clear it up. Now I'm having a lot of the same body symptoms (no pain while nursing, but headaches, craving sugar, etc). I don't know if this is related, but I've had a lot of abdominal bloating and occasional pain (a couple weeks ago, I had pelvic/abdominal pain so bad it got me out of bed an into the bath. Reminded me of labor pains, but I'm not pregnant). Oh yeah, and I had my appendix out a few yer ago, too, after multiple painful bouts of appendicitis. So is this the thread for me?

I know the yeast diets call for not many carbs, but I'm a strict vegetarian and eat a lot of whole grains and beans and nuts and fruit.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I know someone in real life whose kiddo is allergic to lettuce, so it's totally possible I'm sad to say.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Yeast feeds on carbs. I know, I've had it for years. It's very very difficult to deal with, and in fact, I'm starting to wonder if maybe fighting it is actually making me sicker, since I've had a lot of hair and skin problems since doing SCD, and since my mood problems are seemingly worse too. I was a vegetarian for many years, and I think it only compounded my problems, especially since I used to eat a lot of sweets. After all, cake and ice cream and cookies and tortilla chips are vegetarian, right? Now, I'm trying to starve it out, and I look terrible -- dark circles under my eyes, dull hair, aging skin. Sorry to be such a downer, but today I just am sick of this battle. I do know of people who fought it off sucessfully, but not without major drugs. Which I don't want to do. Any better news from others?


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

I'm trying to figure out what vitamins and minerals I need to suppliment with. In trying to find out food sensitivies in DS I have cut out everything and added back in vit c, CLO, umm I cannot even remember what others I am taking because I have serious brain fog. I feel depleted.

Where can I read about what my body needs? What I mean is there someplace I can read 'i have this symptom and so probably need this mineral.' Or 'I eat ___ and don't eat ___ and need to take____." Does that make sense? Or do I go and get a high quality multi mineral, multi vitamin? The AK I went to was not much help in the suppliments department.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
Yeast feeds on carbs. I know, I've had it for years. It's very very difficult to deal with, and in fact, I'm starting to wonder if maybe fighting it is actually making me sicker, since I've had a lot of hair and skin problems since doing SCD, and since my mood problems are seemingly worse too. I was a vegetarian for many years, and I think it only compounded my problems, especially since I used to eat a lot of sweets. After all, cake and ice cream and cookies and tortilla chips are vegetarian, right? Now, I'm trying to starve it out, and I look terrible -- dark circles under my eyes, dull hair, aging skin. Sorry to be such a downer, but today I just am sick of this battle. I do know of people who fought it off sucessfully, but not without major drugs. Which I don't want to do. Any better news from others?









I'm right there with you. How long have you been doing SCD? I'm giving it another try, but we may end up with meds at some point. I'm sorry you're feeling so down.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *haleyelianasmom* 
I'm new to the "Healing the Gut" scene, but I think I may need it. Any insight would be helpful. These threads are so huge, they're hard to read through to get good information, but I'm trying.

I think I have a yeast overgrowth. I've never had any yeast infections other than one on my breast about 8 or 9 months ago and I ended up having to go on diflucan to clear it up. Now I'm having a lot of the same body symptoms (no pain while nursing, but headaches, craving sugar, etc). I don't know if this is related, but I've had a lot of abdominal bloating and occasional pain (a couple weeks ago, I had pelvic/abdominal pain so bad it got me out of bed an into the bath. Reminded me of labor pains, but I'm not pregnant). Oh yeah, and I had my appendix out a few yer ago, too, after multiple painful bouts of appendicitis. So is this the thread for me?

I know the yeast diets call for not many carbs, but I'm a strict vegetarian and eat a lot of whole grains and beans and nuts and fruit.

The pains sound like IBS. I know it can be very painful! Sounds like you're not digesting something properly.

After doing the SCD my IBS is completely gone. Sorry I can't help you much w/the yeast thing, but if you look at the information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, that'll help the IBS.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
Yeast feeds on carbs. I know, I've had it for years. It's very very difficult to deal with, and in fact, I'm starting to wonder if maybe fighting it is actually making me sicker, since I've had a lot of hair and skin problems since doing SCD, and since my mood problems are seemingly worse too. I was a vegetarian for many years, and I think it only compounded my problems, especially since I used to eat a lot of sweets. After all, cake and ice cream and cookies and tortilla chips are vegetarian, right? Now, I'm trying to starve it out, and I look terrible -- dark circles under my eyes, dull hair, aging skin. Sorry to be such a downer, but today I just am sick of this battle. I do know of people who fought it off sucessfully, but not without major drugs. Which I don't want to do. Any better news from others?









s


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
I'm trying to figure out what vitamins and minerals I need to suppliment with. In trying to find out food sensitivies in DS I have cut out everything and added back in vit c, CLO, umm I cannot even remember what others I am taking because I have serious brain fog. I feel depleted.

Where can I read about what my body needs? What I mean is there someplace I can read 'i have this symptom and so probably need this mineral.' Or 'I eat ___ and don't eat ___ and need to take____." Does that make sense? Or do I go and get a high quality multi mineral, multi vitamin? The AK I went to was not much help in the suppliments department.

I got a lot of information from the Nutrition 101 thread. I think you've been over there (?) If not, lmk and I'll post the link.


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
Yeast feeds on carbs. I know, I've had it for years. It's very very difficult to deal with, and in fact, I'm starting to wonder if maybe fighting it is actually making me sicker, since I've had a lot of hair and skin problems since doing SCD, and since my mood problems are seemingly worse too. I was a vegetarian for many years, and I think it only compounded my problems, especially since I used to eat a lot of sweets. After all, cake and ice cream and cookies and tortilla chips are vegetarian, right? Now, I'm trying to starve it out, and I look terrible -- dark circles under my eyes, dull hair, aging skin. Sorry to be such a downer, but today I just am sick of this battle. I do know of people who fought it off sucessfully, but not without major drugs. Which I don't want to do. Any better news from others?









I so completely hear you. I too have gotten worse as ive progressed through this, and I havent encountered someone whose successfully dealt with it. Im tired and sad too.


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## haleyelianasmom (Nov 5, 2005)

I started taking some Defense Plus (a supplement with GSE and some herbs) and a probiotic (primal defense) and I think it may be helping. They say you get worse before you get better with yeast and I think yesterday was definitel worse







:


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Pookietooth and Saskiasmom-







.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Thanks. I was really feeling pretty hopeless about it. Today I'm a bit better, just hoping that staying on SCD, with a few grain cheats with enzymes, will be enough eventually. I want to be healthy!


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache* 
Sigh. I'm just feeling like there is no end to this yeast, food allergy stuff through diet alone. Every "success" story I've read, including Bee's, suggests that there isn't ever a cure, just simply maintenance. And I can't see eating such a limited diet for the rest of my life (or dd's for that matter). My other kids and dh don't have any issues with these foods and it's such an enormous hassle to prepare foods they'll all eat. I used to enjoying cooking. . .and we used to do so much "from scratch" cooking, including grinding our own wheat or spelt, but now we don't. And without dairy, we're limited even further. I just wish I knew there was an "end," you know?


That's kind of the impression I've been getting too--nobody really permanently cures candida, they just keep it sort of under control by following special diets. Maybe my expectations are too high--I'm kind of thinking now that I'll be satisfied if I can get DD "fixed" and fix my low blood sugar issues, which is a non-issue on the candida diet. Then I can probably do pretty well on an NT diet with not too many grains and lots of lacto ferments


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

*Could DD's dairy intolerance make her constipated?* Today she pooped after not pooping for 3 days (which has happened before and she didn't act constipated). She was obviously very uncomfortable while she was pooping--she wouldn't even hold onto a toy and she kept pooping in spurts. Poor baby, I felt so bad for her. Toward the end she was only getting little squirts of poop out and I kept thinking of the autistic kids who have diarrhea all the time because they are so constipated they can't get anything else out. I hope that's not what's happening with DD.

Anyhow, I cheated on Saturday evening and had some ice cream along with some fettucine w/tomato sauce. The last time DD pooped before today was Saturday morning...*is it possible that she was reacting to the dairy I ate?* I thought her dairy intolerance was going away or gone... *Or maybe she reacted to the sugar I ate? Any other thoughts on what could have made her constipated?* She hasn't had any solids for 10 days or so, and I'm still giving her baby probiotics 2-3 times a day.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

to everybody who's discouraged...I kept getting discouraged, too, even though I know this diet is helping...I just don't want to be on it forever! Plus I'm not really sure it's helping DD like it's helping me. I started her on vitamin C today, and I'm going to start giving her CO and bone broths, too.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
*Could DD's dairy intolerance make her constipated?* Today she pooped after not pooping for 3 days (which has happened before and she didn't act constipated). She was obviously very uncomfortable while she was pooping--she wouldn't even hold onto a toy and she kept pooping in spurts. Poor baby, I felt so bad for her. Toward the end she was only getting little squirts of poop out and I kept thinking of the autistic kids who have diarrhea all the time because they are so constipated they can't get anything else out. I hope that's not what's happening with DD.

Anyhow, I cheated on Saturday evening and had some ice cream along with some fettucine w/tomato sauce. The last time DD pooped before today was Saturday morning...*is it possible that she was reacting to the dairy I ate?* I thought her dairy intolerance was going away or gone... *Or maybe she reacted to the sugar I ate? Any other thoughts on what could have made her constipated?* She hasn't had any solids for 10 days or so, and I'm still giving her baby probiotics 2-3 times a day.

Yes, it's probably the dairy. DD1 reacts like this to any dairy (and did when she was ebf too.)


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Yes, it's probably the dairy. DD1 reacts like this to any dairy (and did when she was ebf too.)

Sigh. No more ice cream for me...I wonder why she just started reacting like this? I almost prefer the bloody poop that used to be her reaction to dairy--at least that didn't seem to bother her.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Sigh. No more ice cream for me...I wonder why she just started reacting like this? I almost prefer the bloody poop that used to be her reaction to dairy--at least that didn't seem to bother her.

Poor baby. Constipation in little ones is awful. The first time dd had her bout of severe constipation I swear it was like she was giving birth. Sweating, moaning, the whole bit.

L. reuteri has helped her soooo much. We haven't even had any *slight* constipation since using that.

I really really really want some ice cream too. (Was just lamenting about it to dh today.







) but I think dairy makes dd2's cradle cap come back. Does this make sense to anyone? (The only dairy I do is cheese and yogurt of course.) DD does not eat cheese but got some in some scrambled eggs a few weeks ago and I *think* that's what caused it though I can't be sure.


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## shafer (Oct 18, 2005)

I have been following this thread for several months(lurking







) and am finally posting(for the first time!!) because I could really use some advice. I have already learned so much from all your posts.

My ds is 19 mo. old and has had all sorts of gut issues. He was born with severe reflux (that he grew out of at 11 mo.) I did all sorts of elimination diets and never really saw much improvement. I quit breast feeding at 1 yr. because I literally just couldn't cope with it anymore. (up six times a night, constantly nursing yet he wasn't growing well, trying to change my diet, my mental health was really suffering). I realize most of you are dealing with all that right now, and I do have some regrets about quitting. Anyway, he has always had sleep issues although he has done much better since I quit nursing. He has been FTT since he was about 10 mo. I just can not get this poor child to gain weight. And he reacts to just about everything. The big ones are wheat, dairy and soy. He also doesn't tolerate eggs, coconut oil or milk, clo, avocado, tomatoes, some fruit, anything with citric acid, and more I just can't think of right now. He is now drinking rice milk that I add things to so it is more nutritious, but I really wish there was a better option for him. He has always had mushy poop or diarrhea. We are currently gluten free along with all the other stuff and his poop has firmed up about 50% of the time but at least once or twice a week we have a day that it gets mushy again and I can not figure out why.







: I am going insane trying to figure out how to help him. He is still very skinny, and has not gained any weight for months which is really getting scary. He has been tested for celiacs and cf, both came back normal, but we're gf anyway cause it seems to help. He is always on some type of df probiotic, and I am experimenting with different brands of enzymes. Zymeprime seem to make him reflux and give him diarrhea even at very small doses. Has anyone else experienced this?
I have been wanting to try SCD but not sure how I can or will with all his food reactions. Eggs, dairy, and I'm nervous to try any nuts with him at this age. Are any of you mamas giving your toddlers (under age 2) the nut flours? Has it made you nervous? I may just have to do my own version as closely as I can and hope for the best. Is that silly to think it would help?

Anyway, sorry for the novel! If anyone has any advice or input I would really appreciate it.

Oh yeah, has anyone tried water kefir for your toddlers that are dairy intolerant?

Thanks!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

WE have done the water kefir-it was fine, but I prefered other sources of probiotics.

Annikate-cradle cap is indeed a symptom of food allergy.

Caedmyn-hugs to you, poor mama! Yes, it is likely the dairy. Same thing happens to my ds. It takes weeks for us (him) to recover. It happened even with a "dairy free" probiotic that contained traces of milk. I took that over a week ago. He's still only pooping every four days or so.


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## milkamama (May 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shafer* 
I have been following this thread for several months(lurking







) and am finally posting(for the first time!!) because I could really use some advice. I have already learned so much from all your posts.

My ds is 19 mo. old and has had all sorts of gut issues. He was born with severe reflux (that he grew out of at 11 mo.) I did all sorts of elimination diets and never really saw much improvement. I quit breast feeding at 1 yr. because I literally just couldn't cope with it anymore. (up six times a night, constantly nursing yet he wasn't growing well, trying to change my diet, my mental health was really suffering). I realize most of you are dealing with all that right now, and I do have some regrets about quitting. Anyway, he has always had sleep issues although he has done much better since I quit nursing. He has been FTT since he was about 10 mo. I just can not get this poor child to gain weight. And he reacts to just about everything. The big ones are wheat, dairy and soy. He also doesn't tolerate eggs, coconut oil or milk, clo, avocado, tomatoes, some fruit, anything with citric acid, and more I just can't think of right now. He is now drinking rice milk that I add things to so it is more nutritious, but I really wish there was a better option for him. He has always had mushy poop or diarrhea. We are currently gluten free along with all the other stuff and his poop has firmed up about 50% of the time but at least once or twice a week we have a day that it gets mushy again and I can not figure out why.







: I am going insane trying to figure out how to help him. He is still very skinny, and has not gained any weight for months which is really getting scary. He has been tested for celiacs and cf, both came back normal, but we're gf anyway cause it seems to help. He is always on some type of df probiotic, and I am experimenting with different brands of enzymes. Zymeprime seem to make him reflux and give him diarrhea even at very small doses. Has anyone else experienced this?
I have been wanting to try SCD but not sure how I can or will with all his food reactions. Eggs, dairy, and I'm nervous to try any nuts with him at this age. Are any of you mamas giving your toddlers (under age 2) the nut flours? Has it made you nervous? I may just have to do my own version as closely as I can and hope for the best. Is that silly to think it would help?

Anyway, sorry for the novel! If anyone has any advice or input I would really appreciate it.

Oh yeah, has anyone tried water kefir for your toddlers that are dairy intolerant?

Thanks!

i feel your pain...
there are many more experienced mamas who can offer more hands-on advice, but i couldn't read your post and not respond. we are in similar situations. my 20 mth old ds has many allergies/intolerances including eggs, dairy, nuts, cococut, avocado, gluten, rice. we did a modified version of scd for the summer and ds did gain 7oz., but we also started enzymes, probiotics, and vit c...to name a few. i say modified...we did stay scd legal for the summer, but i recently added in a few grains that i am pretty sure he can tolerate: quinoa, millet, buckwheat...occasionally white potato (very occasionally). with all of ds's issues, i felt like he wasn't getting a balanced diet...i am bfing, too, and i know i wasn't. we recently made the switch, so only time will tell. you can do some scd when there are allergies, i personally could not stay on it too long and feel good...i'm sure if i could follow it with dairy and/or eggs it would make a difference...just my experience. i do believe that any attempt to follow (even a modified version, if that's what you need to do) a gut healing diet will help.

i, too, am interested in water kefir...i have been told (on this thread, i believe) that kids with dairy allergies can usually tolerate water kefir. i need to find a reliable source for grains.

allergy testing did help confirm much of what i knew, but at this young of an age is only so reliable. just an fyi...although rice is low on the allergy list, i do believe that it is one that ds reacts to. with all of the other allergies/intolerances, i would be very cautious with nuts. ds recently tested IgE to both tree nuts and peanuts...scary stuff.

i have also found that ds can only tolerate a probiotic that is dairy free...right now we are using one from customprobiotics.com ...it is not cheap!!

hope this is helpful...
good luck...welcome to the whirl wind


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I'm getting nervous about my dd's b-vitamins. I take a b-complex but I don't give one to her. She nurses a lot but I don't know how much of that transfers in the bm.

I'm looking at the brainchild vitamins, but I'm not sure those are a great idea either.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Oh and we had lentels today for the first time since starting the diet 7+ months ago. DD loved them and they seemed to have not caused any adverse effects.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Anyone here seen this study? It is about mercury fillings and a substance that could bind to the mercury.

Jane- Where are you??? How did that Dr's appointment go??? Did I miss her saying that she would be gone?


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Welcome Shafer,
I'm still finding my way around too. I don't know the answer to whether SCD would help your DS or not, the pecanbread yahoo group would be a good place to read up and ask questions. The focus over there is specifically children on SCD.
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/pecanbread/

Also pecanbread is a good place to read about how to do the intro, they lay it all out for you:
http://www.pecanbread.com/foodprep.html

I know it is overwhelming to start this healing through diet but it will be worth it. There is so much to compute







: Good luck!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
Anyone here seen this study? It is about mercury fillings and a substance that could bind to the mercury.

Jane- Where are you??? How did that Dr's appointment go??? Did I miss her saying that she would be gone?

I didn't read the whole study but it sounds an awful lot like NCD or Zeolite. Check out this thread.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Hey, I've been thinking about Jane too. I also want to know about the appt.

Maybe she's gone because this thread has turned into a "battling yeast" thread.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
I didn't read the whole study but it sounds an awful lot like NCD or Zeolite. Check out this thread.

Now why didn't you post this sooner????

(ok I remember you posting about this a few months ago.)

HMMMMMMM................. (I've recently become convinced that my fillings may be the root of our yeast battle.)


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## shafer (Oct 18, 2005)

Thanks for your reply and input Milkamama, our situations do sound really similar. Nolansmum, I will check out the links you gave me. Thanks!

Sometimes I feel all of this will never end. I'm also trying to get rid of yeast overgrowth in myself and deal with my own gut issues that I know contributed to my poor ds issues. It really sucks to feel like my own issues hurt his health as well.







I definately wish I would have been more aware on healing both of us while I was still nursing. Much guilt and regret.

I'm not sure if everyone (who's also fighting yeast) has tried this product or not, but I am really seeing good results with Thorne's Formula SF722. I'm horrible with strict diets, but I got this product months ago and started off doing really well on the diet and in those first 2 wks I cleared up some fungal rashes, fingernail infection, bloating went away, etc. I could see myself eliminating the yeast in my bm's. Sorry, I know TMI.
BUT, the die off was severe. So severe I had to taper off, then I tapered off some more to the point I really was no longer following the diet closely enough, and was just doing enzymes. So, I'm starting more slowly this time and hopefully will finish healing completely.
Anyway, I realize everyone's situations are a little different, but just thought I would throw that out and let people know what seems to be working for me.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
Now why didn't you post this sooner????

(ok I remember you posting about this a few months ago.)

HMMMMMMM................. (I've recently become convinced that my fillings may be the root of our yeast battle.)









I post A LOT off OT things here & sometimes feel







for doing it.

OMG metals are *THE* cause of this nightmare we've been living.









GO GET THAT BOOK I POSTED ABOUT!!!!! The author talks all about it too.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Ok, you have been talking a lot about murcury and I have not gotten that far in my readings yet but can I ask if I might have a problem with that too? I do not have any fillings but I was vaccinated as a child in the 70's and then had a fresh batch of vaccines when I entered the Army 4 years ago







, they did not tell us to bring our vaccination records to basic training and if we didn't have pproof that we had to have a fresh shot.

Thanks Annikate for the suggestion of reading the nutrition/immunology thread. I am on pg 15 so far and feel







: . But hopefully I will figure something out for myself!


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

I think maybe Jane's probably just overwhelmed because her ds is in preschool now, and she's trying to heal him so he can handle it. I sure do miss her though. She's so awesome! Annikate, so you can chelate with zeolite while still bfing? That would be cool. And there is a cheaper source of zeolite? It is expensive on that one website. Can you make it from cat litter, I wonder?

I've been taking some antidepressant supplements, including 5 HTP, and have been feeling a lot better. I hope it continues, as being depressed gets in the way of healing, and I'm positive it's caused DS a lot of problems (anxiety, etc.).


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## haleyelianasmom (Nov 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shafer* 
I'm not sure if everyone (who's also fighting yeast) has tried this product or not, but I am really seeing good results with Thorne's Formula SF722.

I'm taking probiotics and Nutribiotic Defense Plus with GSE and noticed a strong die off effect, too.

I've never heard of SF722, but it sounds interesting. Good luck with fighting the yeast!


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shafer* 
I'm not sure if everyone (who's also fighting yeast) has tried this product or not, but I am really seeing good results with Thorne's Formula SF722. I'm horrible with strict diets, but I got this product months ago and started off doing really well on the diet and in those first 2 wks I cleared up some fungal rashes, fingernail infection, bloating went away, etc. I could see myself eliminating the yeast in my bm's. Sorry, I know TMI.

I have been using that for quite a while. In the begining I noticed pretty strong die off from it, but then no real improvement that I can see, just die off. I am currently taking a break from it in hopes that my yeast will forget how to defend itself and I can come at it again.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

This rediculous anti-candida diet has me entirely messed up. Since starting this diet I've been eating two things I never ate before: nuts (yes, out of the cans from the grocery store - not soaked) and a few of those stupid Murray's cookies.









I ate the cookies days ago but I'm still suffering. Do you all think it's the nuts?

BTW, I am giving dd Goji Juice as an anti-fungal. Don't know if it's working or not but she's drinking it. I have an appt. w/our homeopath today so we'll see if this diet has helped her at all. I know it's not helping me.


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

"Die-off" - what does this mean to you? Many sources say "a flu-like effect", or exacerbation of symptoms. I have had the same result as Pattila (I think) - exacerbation of symptoms that just stay exacerbated ... I wish that were funny.

Annikate - what's the reaction you're having?


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

I had 'die-off' when I first went on the diet and then again when I started the digestive enzymes. It took the form of 'flu-like' symptoms and lasted a couple of days. There were other symptoms that lasted longer, itchy skin and itchy vagina but in hindsight I believe those were a reaction to coconut oil, ingested and topical forms.

Saskiasmom-What symptoms are exacerbated? DId they start with the (anti-candida) diet? How long have you been doing SCD and then how long Bee's anti-candida diet? Have you done the coffee emema that bee suggests? I was thinking of doing this myself









Annikate-I would suspect those nuts would make you not feel good







. If I remember correctly they process canned nuts with startches. Were you eating nuts on SCD?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

That's true. I know that we have to avoid canned nuts because of gluten contamination. Elaine also says to avoid them because of the starch coatings.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Great. That's probably it.







:

Theoretically it *could* take 2 weeks or so to show the ill effects in dd right?

I feel so stupid. THings were going so well. I don't know why I let this homeopath talk me into doing this. Both dd and I were healing.








(Of course, it's not her fault that I ate that crap.)


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
I had 'die-off' when I first went on the diet and then again when I started the digestive enzymes. It took the form of 'flu-like' symptoms and lasted a couple of days. There were other symptoms that lasted longer, itchy skin and itchy vagina but in hindsight I believe those were a reaction to coconut oil, ingested and topical forms.

Saskiasmom-What symptoms are exacerbated? DId they start with the (anti-candida) diet? How long have you been doing SCD and then how long Bee's anti-candida diet? Have you done the coffee emema that bee suggests? I was thinking of doing this myself









ok, sorry if Im repeating myself. I have been on Bee's diet for 2+mos. I started it with some bloating and a white tongue. The bloating went away day 1, the tongue is the same, and Ive added, at various times, itchy butt, itchy labia, sore throat, feeling of food or pill stuck in my throat, rash on eye that has been so bad that my eyelid is swollen in the morning and at best its dy and flaky and looks like elephant skin, ear pain/itching, headaches. Right now Ive had the pill in my throat and ears for 6 wks. Ive never had any of the above in my life, so its not retracing, per se (from what I undestand of retracing). Im sooooo sick of the pill in my throat!!! And the ears!!! The labia come and go. But nothing is better; not my skin, my energy, my MOOD







Oh well. I did have the flu type experience the first 3 days of the diet, but not since. I hope that a year from now I dont feel like I have a pill stuck in my throat, ya know!


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## haleyelianasmom (Nov 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom* 
ok, sorry if Im repeating myself. I have been on Bee's diet for 2+mos. I started it with some bloating and a white tongue. The bloating went away day 1, the tongue is the same, and Ive added, at various times, itchy butt, itchy labia, sore throat, feeling of food or pill stuck in my throat, rash on eye that has been so bad that my eyelid is swollen in the morning and at best its dy and flaky and looks like elephant skin, ear pain/itching, headaches. Right now Ive had the pill in my throat and ears for 6 wks. Ive never had any of the above in my life, so its not retracing, per se (from what I undestand of retracing). Im sooooo sick of the pill in my throat!!! And the ears!!! The labia come and go. But nothing is better; not my skin, my energy, my MOOD







Oh well. I did have the flu type experience the first 3 days of the diet, but not since. I hope that a year from now I dont feel like I have a pill stuck in my throat, ya know!









What is that pill in your throat feeling? I've had that on and off for the past week or so and I was starting to think it was my thyroid.

Anyone want to tell me what I CAN eat as a dietary vegan trying to eat whole foods and fight candida at the same time?







:


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom* 
rash on eye that has been so bad that my eyelid is swollen in the morning

Does anyone else have this? I have never had this in my life, but have been having it for about a week now. And my eye stays swollen all day on a bad day. Like today. I also have super bad allergies these days, which have been better for years. Not sure what to do about the eyes. Was wondering about a clay concoction of some kind.


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

The eye thing







- you could treat it topiclly and see what the response is. My friend IRL has had rashes on her face (eyes, mouth moslty) for years, and has seen derm after derm who said "cortisone cream", which did nothing. This spring she saw a new one who said "that's a yeast rash, try an antifungal cream". When I told her my situation, she put it together that she is yeast overloaded, however, she found total relief from her rashes from antigungal cream (used once, the rashes have not returned .. although its been only a few weeks). Im not saying yours is yeast, but that your response to treatment could tell you what it is. I put CO on mine, but only at night and it can get in my eye a little and irritate (hence only at night when my eyes are closed), I never wash it, and I use vaseline every day.

Lump in your throat - I read somewhere awhile back that esophogeal candida can cause the feeling of a pill stuck in your throat. Im not positive that's what it is, but considering ... I also wonder about thyroid (er, where is it?), as the lump feeling is just below where my adams apple would be. The curious thing is that the more my ears *hurt*, the more my jaw hurts, the more my *pill* bothers me. There's this throat/ear/jaw axis Im trying to figure out. I suspect/hope that once I clear the yeast, my jaw wont hurt? I got some garlic oil for my ears, so we'll see if that does anything.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Interesting that you are bringing up the throat thing.

My homeopath told me a few weeks ago that I had a fungus in my tonsils. I thought this was kind of







but I had been *ahem-ing* and couging a bit. She said yeast often settles in that area and will cause your glands in that area to swell too.

She suggested I take this product and let dd get it through my b'milk but she warned that my glands will probably swell once I start taking it unless I adhere to a STRICT anti-candida diet.

I'm still researching it and haven't made up my mind one way or another on it. I also have a DAN appt. in a couple of weeks and want to run it by him too before I start.


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

Annikate, I wouldn't take that stuff. It has Alpha lipoic acid in it, and cilantro which I've heard of people having negative reactions to...

Have you heard of the Andy Cutler method of chelation? The website

They say that ALA is a powerful chelator that pulls mercury out of the brain, and it is taken every three hours according to the half life. So, to just take a supplement with ALA in it, will displace mercury into your body, and cause more harm than help. I don't know if ALA chelation is safe for nursing either.

For the eye thing I use homeopathic Euphrasia. Eyebright compresses if you can find them. Some kind of herbal fennel blend eye wash with eyebright in it works ok.

I don't have a link, but the thing in nuts that bothers some people is called oxalates. There is a low oxalate diet. Then I heard that the fungus in nuts is what bothers some people with yeast issues.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Interesting that you are bringing up the throat thing.

My homeopath told me a few weeks ago that I had a fungus in my tonsils. I thought this was kind of







but I had been *ahem-ing* and couging a bit. She said yeast often settles in that area and will cause your glands in that area to swell too.

She suggested I take this product and let dd get it through my b'milk but she warned that my glands will probably swell once I start taking it unless I adhere to a STRICT anti-candida diet.

I'm still researching it and haven't made up my mind one way or another on it. I also have a DAN appt. in a couple of weeks and want to run it by him too before I start.

Aren't you nursing? Can you take a chelator while nursing?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom* 
"Die-off" - what does this mean to you? Many sources say "a flu-like effect", or exacerbation of symptoms. I have had the same result as Pattila (I think) - exacerbation of symptoms that just stay exacerbated ... I wish that were funny.

Annikate - what's the reaction you're having?

When I first began SCD I felt terrible. I got a horrible yeast rash on my bottom. I could barely concentrate (made me nervous driving it was so bad). And in general I felt lousy with no real specific symptoms to speak of.

When I started the Formula SF-722 I got a bad dry patch on my elbow and my yeast on my bottom came back. Eventually the patch on my elbow went away and my butt calmed back down. My elbows are scaly again so I'm not sure what it going on, perhaps the reuteri???

I just feel like I go through this die off crisis and then I'm back to where I was. I don't know how to get better.

I do think that the HCL is making a difference. When I eat it doesn't seem to just sit there like a lump like it often used to, esp if it had many carbs.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

You can take some chelators while nursing. Depends on HOW they work.

Annikate-I had it in my throat too. Not fun.

Oxalic acid is present in many plant foods, it's just a matter of the degree. There are ways to neutralize it if you are sensitive. Cashews are a high fungus food-they tend to carry aspergillus. They are also high in aflatosins like peanuts. In fact, many people with peanut allergies also have cashew allergies even though they are in different families. IT is actually more of a mold problem.

Euphrasia is a great idea for eye problems, unless you are already on a constiutional remedy. Eyebright (which is the same thing, just in the raw herb form) can also be very soothing topically.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
You can take some chelators while nursing. Depends on HOW they work.

.

Tell me more. I still have fillings. Does that make a difference?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Yes. You would want a chelator that either a). doesn't mobilize mercury or b). doesn't draw it into the bloodstream. You also want to look for something that will bind completely making it totally stable and unable to be released before it's excreted.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
WE have done the water kefir-it was fine, but I prefered other sources of probiotics.

Annikate-cradle cap is indeed a symptom of food allergy.

Caedmyn-hugs to you, poor mama! Yes, it is likely the dairy. Same thing happens to my ds. It takes weeks for us (him) to recover. It happened even with a "dairy free" probiotic that contained traces of milk. I took that over a week ago. He's still only pooping every four days or so.


Remind me again--what probiotics do you use, and why do you prefer something other than water kefir? I think I'm going to add water kefir, or maybe coconut water kefir, to my diet & DD's--the bifidus I'm getting into her just doesn't seem to be cutting it.

DD hasn't acted constipated other than that one time, although she doesn't poop every day and hasn't since I started this anti-candida diet. I don't know if it's related to the diet or not.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I just don't like the kefir







:

I am now using several probiotics...I love Pharmax and use a couple of theirs. I'm now doing the Mindlinx and really liking the difference it's making in my kids. We also use Sedona iFlora for kids. Beyond that I am making yogurt.

How old is your dd now?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

ff--she's 9 months--I've been giving her a dairy-free baby bifidus product (which she loves!) but I haven't seen any improvement in her symptoms so I thinks she needs more. Have you heard anything good about coconut water kefirs? I'm leaning more toward kefir than yogurt because of the "yeast fights yeast" philosophy.

While we've been out of town I've been doing a lot of reading on nutrition/healing and I compiled a mini-list of foods long-lived groups used and the diet Jordan Rubin says he followed to heal...when we get back home I'll post what I've got. I'm going to make some changes to my diet to incorporate the principles I've found and see if it helps. Oh, one of the books I read that really put a lot of nutrition principles together for me is "Traditional Foods Are Your Best Medicine"...it's by the same guy who wrote the book on raw milk.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I don't like kefir either.

Well, the more I read the more I think I may give this chelator a try. I really need something to pull the mercury and Andy Cutler's protocol makes me nervous for dd. I don't know why, I just don't feel it's right for her. (Even though this chelator has ALA in it too.)

This morning dd had that *allergy* look and it scared me. It was like she was *checked out* again and I haven't seen that look in many, many months. I thought it was the wheat/gluten I consumed but my homeopath said it's the mercury showing its ugly face again. I believe her and it's really freakin' scary. I want this crap OUT of her ASAP.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom* 
ok, sorry if Im repeating myself. I have been on Bee's diet for 2+mos. I started it with some bloating and a white tongue. The bloating went away day 1, the tongue is the same, and Ive added, at various times, itchy butt, itchy labia, sore throat, feeling of food or pill stuck in my throat, rash on eye that has been so bad that my eyelid is swollen in the morning and at best its dy and flaky and looks like elephant skin, ear pain/itching, headaches. Right now Ive had the pill in my throat and ears for 6 wks. Ive never had any of the above in my life, so its not retracing, per se (from what I undestand of retracing). Im sooooo sick of the pill in my throat!!! And the ears!!! The labia come and go. But nothing is better; not my skin, my energy, my MOOD







Oh well. I did have the flu type experience the first 3 days of the diet, but not since. I hope that a year from now I dont feel like I have a pill stuck in my throat, ya know!









This yeast is vicious!







Hang in there.

Have you ever done ear candling? Whenever I did it wax plus a whole lotta candida always came out.
http://www.crystalinks.com/earconing.html


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
Yes. You would want a chelator that either a). doesn't mobilize mercury or b). doesn't draw it into the bloodstream. You also want to look for something that will bind completely making it totally stable and unable to be released before it's excreted.

Wait a second. All chelators technically mobilize mercury. I think it depends on how the body excretes it. For instance, by using NCD , the metals are supposedly excreted throught the urine. This new chelator I'm looking at pulls the metals and supposedly they're excreted through the intestinal tract (putting less/no stress on the kidneys.)

I don't know how you'd know for sure which is what makes me nervous about any chelator.

Anyway, another reason to be vigilant about making sure your gut is in tip-top shape.

BTW, this new chelator claims to help w/digestion too.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Actually I have just been reading that there different types of chelators...they will draw out different things. There are some apparently which will have very little affect on mercury and are geared more towards, say copper and aluminum. This is true with herbs as well-at least I remember reading that back in school. I am waiting to learn more about this, as my knowledge is very rudimentary.

I would say that you could try a different probiotic-the gut does need more than one strain to effectively combat the yeast. If shouldn't have 12 strains at this point, but three or four should be okay. In the beginning you do want to be bifidus dominant, but when you think about it...The baby is innoculated as it passes through the vaginal canal. You are supply the baby with their probiotics for better or for worse. You have more than the bifidobacterium infantis strain in your body and you pass more than that. In the beginning it's just supposed to all stay in check. I really like Sedona for a baby probiotic. It is soy and dairy free. HTH.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

ff, do you find discouted places to get these probiotics? Wow, they are expensive!


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

ff--do you feel your older kids are healed at this point, or are you still working on them?


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

FF- is this the probiotic you use on the baby/kids?
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...c-20/ref=nosim


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

And now a different probiotic completely.

Yeastl


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
And now a different probiotic completely.

Yeastl

Werent JaneS and Annikate talking about this strain (saccharomyces boulardi) being bad for some reason - maybe on the power of p's thread? Im wondering too b/c my friends ND (see below) just put friends' ds on it. Also, what benefit is it if it is "non-colonizing", dont we want pb's to colonize?

I made an appt today with an ND whom several friends recommended. We'll see, but at least I can talk to someone IRL about all this who has experience and knowledge - the emotional component of that will be good too. The appt is for the 11th.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom* 
Werent JaneS and Annikate talking about this strain (saccharomyces boulardi) being bad for some reason - maybe on the power of p's thread? Im wondering too b/c my friends ND (see below) just put friends' ds on it. Also, what benefit is it if it is "non-colonizing", dont we want pb's to colonize?

I made an appt today with an ND whom several friends recommended. We'll see, but at least I can talk to someone IRL about all this who has experience and knowledge - the emotional component of that will be good too. The appt is for the 11th.

This is why I posted this here. To get some feedback!

On another board I am on someone with an asd kid with a bad yeast issue said that she is seeing more improvement using this than she did with him on yeast meds. She is so impressed that she doesn't want to do the yeast meds (I can't remember which one) anymore, just this. I didn't read up on it much beyond googling for something to post here.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom* 
Werent JaneS and Annikate talking about this strain (saccharomyces boulardi) being bad for some reason - maybe on the power of p's thread? Im wondering too b/c my friends ND (see below) just put friends' ds on it. Also, what benefit is it if it is "non-colonizing", dont we want pb's to colonize?

I made an appt today with an ND whom several friends recommended. We'll see, but at least I can talk to someone IRL about all this who has experience and knowledge - the emotional component of that will be good too. The appt is for the 11th.

Hmmm, I don't remember anything about this strain, although my brain isn't all that great at retention lately.









I'd be up for trying it for dd if you find it works Patty. Are you going to order some?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I have that saccharomyces boulardi on my list of things to possibly try--I was reading somewhere, maybe in a candida book, that it is a good candida treatment. If I remember correctly, that strain is actually one of the beneficial bacteria/yeast in water kefirs and kombucha.

annikate--are you giving your DD's l. reuteri straight or culturing it in yogurt? How much are they getting? Do you use a dairy free version?

ETA: it's only kombucha that contains the s. boulardi.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

What does everyone think of using seaweed (kelp, nori, dulse, etc) to get minerals? Bee recommends 1 1/2 tsp/day of sea salt, but that's a lot of salt, even if sea salt is good for you. She says seaweed has too much iodine and you get enough from butter (which I can't eat) and the sea salt, and that seaweed isn't a natural human foods, which is a bunch of hooey based on Dr. Price's research--the groups he studied that lived on the coast ate seaweed.

On the topic of Bee's advice & hooey, has anyone read the info in the candidasupport files on fiber? I don't think I agree with that, either--basically she says fiber is bad for you and hard on the system and you really shouldn't eat too many vegetables or fruit because you'll get too much fiber. I can see that isolated fiber, like bran, probably isn't good for you, but I don't think you can get too much fiber from whole foods. The book "Traditional Foods are Your Best Medicine" says that an analysis of hunter-gatherer diets shows they ate an average of 46 grams of fiber a day, although I'm not sure where he got that info--it'd be nice to know if it's accurate because that does seem like quite a bit of fiber, especially when most groups didn't eat whole grains. It seems like I eat a lot of veggies, probably 7-9 servings a day at least, and I only get 20-25 grams of fiber from that.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Yeah, I have set up accounts with my favorite companies (I am a partner in a natural health care business) so I am spending much less. It's been a lifesaver.

I do not feel that we are *completely* healed. We still have the major allergies and I have no idea if we'll ever be able to heal from those-but we are trying. Dc's has several IgE reactions, and dd has celiac disease. So I think that we will always be off of eggs, dairy, gluten and soy. I would LOVE to be able to reintroduce eggs, but I don't think it will be soon. I would also like to be able to use small amounts of raw dairy, but I am not sure that will ever happen. Soy and gluten are gone for life I think. Beyond that though...yeast and pathogens seem to be gone. Their immune systems are not overactive anymore. The rashes and cradle cap are gone. They sleep through the night. Dd's hair is growing now, and her nails are as well. We have healed alot-but I am still taking healing measures.

I'd be more confident if ds2 wasn't so severely reactive to traces of dairy.


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
I have that saccharomyces boulardi on my list of things to possibly try--I was reading somewhere, maybe in a candida book, that it is a good candida treatment. If I remember correctly, that strain is actually one of the beneficial bacteria/yeast in water kefirs and kombucha.

Good to hear, as I hear such great things about this ND, and if sacc. boul. is good, it makes me more excited to see her. So Pattyla, you will take this/give this WITH another pro-b for the good bacteria?

As for seaweed, and things being *natural* - Bee says several things arent "natural" that dont make sense to me. What did janeS say about iodine a ways back? She had a link saying that we could all use more. I was reading up on thyroid stuff yesterday and it said several foods block iodine; cabbage, cauliflower, broccoli, kale ... basically ALL the veggies I eat these days, and I dont think sea salt has any or much iodine. So Im getting none now?







(this b/c I was looking to see if this *ting* in my throat could be goitre







) So kelp with *too much* iodine, might not be too much on this diet?

As for sacc. boul. - if I have time Ill try to find mention of it on the power of p's thread, but someone else could too....


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

You know, the more I read and research some of Bee's advice, the less enamored I am with it. For instance, she posted a link to a site saying that ketosis is not bad (whether it is or not I'm still not sure), but that site also says that carbs are the cause of all age-related degenerative diseases and high-carb diets cause disease. Dr. Price's research clearly proves that this is untrue as many native populations ate quite a few carbs and were healthy--Fallon says in NT that analysis of the diets of populations he studied average 40% carbs (excluded the few groups like Eskimos who ate very few carbs).

That same site also says that ketosis is okay because Eskimos ate few carbs and were in a constant state of ketosis and were healthy. But raw milk book by Ron Schmid says that the Eskimos weren't in a state of ketosis because they ate so much of their meat raw, and people fed the same diet of cooked meat were in a state of ketosis.

I guess at this point although I don't think much of a lot of Bee's advice, I still think overall the diet is good for healing for a couple of reasons: 1) A lot of people seem to get symptom relief on it, although whether they completely heal or not is another story. 2) The diet has significantly reduced my symtoms. And 3) it's based on the Optimal Diet (as far as the fat/protein/carb ratios, anyway, which a Polish doctor used to cure a lot of chronic and acute diseases, so there's at least some anecdotal evidence that it is effective. But clearly, based on Dr. Price's research, that diet is not "optimal" for life or necessary for good health...carbs are not inherently evil, fiber is not bad in whole foods, etc etc.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Certain high grade sea salts have plenty of iodine...you have to get the real stuff though.
Yes, veggies in the Brassica family can block iodine absorption.

Caedmyn: I agree completely. Different cultures had different needs in terms of macronutrients. I stay far away from anyone recommending or talkingabout an Optimal Diet. Its just not accurate or valid. Again you are in a place where you take what works, leave what doesn't.

I believe that Ketosis is dangerous-though not inherently. IT is a survival mechanism employed by our bodies in times of need to prevent catabolization of muscle tissue. It's inducing an unnatural state for a prolonged period of time that is unhealthful. It puts significant stress on on the liver and kidneys. It creates an imbalance in the body. IT is there for a reason, and for that we should all be grateful. We should not be exploiting it-especially not if you are already experiencing problems as all of us here are. JMHO.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
(I am a partner in a natural health care business)

I see these little snippets that firefaery posts around here and realize there's a whole lot to firefaery that I don't know. Owning a gym, weight training, and other past ventures.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
annikate--are you giving your DD's l. reuteri straight or culturing it in yogurt? How much are they getting? Do you use a dairy free version?


I have done both and I've recently finished an experiment where I cultured the pbs from Custom Probiotics in the yogurt. It does not contain l. reuteri.

I like the l.reuteri much better (at least for dd1.) Dd2 I'm not too sure about yet. She's a tough one to figure. Just when I think I'm sure that something is helping her I'm WRONG again.









No, my version is not dairy free but it seems to do okay for dd1 who is highly sensitive to dairy.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

It's scary, isn't is? Most of it I fell into. I never would have chosen to open a gym on my own-ever! That was dh's thing and we partnered up. I was already certified (with a crap certification) because when I stopped performing it was an easy way to make decent $. Dh has been a personal trainer for almost 15 years. He has pushed me further than I thought I would ever go on this path!

I started getting more into natural health about 7 years ago and chose to try and pursue it. I fell backwards into a relationship with a woman I contacted about vaccinations about 5 years ago. SHe has become a great friend and knows more than I could ever hope to know about, well, EVERYTHING! I ended up working for her in a natural health practice (along with other fabulous practitioners) and we decided a year ago to start a separate business. We put together several things, my favorite of which is a Kit that is designed to help treat medical situations naturally and at home. I love it, it's been my pet for awhile now.

It's been a long and winding path, and it's been interesting, but I finally feel like I'm at home. What I really want to do is get into some more esoteric stuff, but right now I am starting a program in nutrition that I hope can really better my understanding of how the body works and what it needs to function optimally. Dh is thrilled as he is already trying to make it a part of what he offers as a trainer. It may yet happen as I very much enjoy working with him. Who knows, right? At least all of this madness with my kids has led to something.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
I have that saccharomyces boulardi on my list of things to possibly try--I was reading somewhere, maybe in a candida book, that it is a good candida treatment. If I remember correctly, that strain is actually one of the beneficial bacteria/yeast in water kefirs and kombucha.

annikate--are you giving your DD's l. reuteri straight or culturing it in yogurt? How much are they getting? Do you use a dairy free version?

*ETA: it's only kombucha that contains the s. boulardi.*

This is very interesting. My chiro thinks that the kombucha is having a very positive effect on dd.....


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
when I stopped performing

And that's exactly my point. I have a vague memory of "performing" from another thread and I thought "wow."

Interesting. All of it.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

It has been-though I can't say I've done anything as cool and worthwhile as writing a book (unless you count the ones I've done for my kids in crayon!) It's you I find fascinating!

Tangent: dontcha wonder what it would be like to really get to know people you come into contact with online? Like if everyone in theis thread got together once a week to discuss new avenues of healing. I mean everyone has really cool bits to them. It would be so neat to know those things! We could all live vicariously through each other...Gale Force-you offered on another thread. Can we start at your place? I'd LOVE to see that house in person!


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Very interesting posts today! You all are such a wealth of information. I think I would be intimidated meeting you







.

Sorry I have to be selfish and ask... DS has a stuffy nose and cannot breath out of it at all. I tried giving him hepar sulph calc but it was in a lactose base and made his rash flair up. Is there something else I can do for him, other than nurse him al ot? He nurses for a couple seconds and then gasps for air. He doesn't get much milk and then he bites (he also just got 3 teeth this week.) Maybe something I could find at Whole Foods?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
Tangent: dontcha wonder what it would be like to really get to know people you come into contact with online? Like if everyone in theis thread got together once a week to discuss new avenues of healing. I mean everyone has really cool bits to them. It would be so neat to know those things! We could all live vicariously through each other...Gale Force-you offered on another thread. Can we start at your place? I'd LOVE to see that house in person!

Yes! I'd be up for that. That's why I







this thread so much. The best mamas on MDC are here.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Nolansmum-Rosemary, sandalwood or eucalyptus essential oil in an atomizer or on his chest with carrier oils. You could also put some Tom's of Maine chest rub on yourself and let him inhale it. I like to also put essential oils in the tub with my babes and or the shower and just hold them while the room steams up and the fragrance distributes. You can buy homeopathics that are dairy free-for future reference. That's probably all I would do for a babe. HTH.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

It would be great to have you all over. I just met MyLittleWonders from the traditional foods forum on Friday. We both went to the Organic Pastures press conference. There were lots of really cool people there.

If any of you are looking for a place to live in California but, in the middle of nowhere at the same time, call me.

Is there technology now for a group chat with video? Can you see having your screen open with fifteen different video streams from each person in the chat? It would be a group video teleconference. It must be out there, just maybe not all that accessible to us yet. I wouldn't even know how to do a video chat with one person.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Thank you FF! I actually have some eucaliptus and will use it in the morning for him, or tonight if he cannot sleep. I would like to get a 'basic kit' of homeopathics that are dairy free now, everything that I have has lactose.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Wouldn't it just be cool to see what other people look like? I know I would love that! I'm a very visual person and have my ideas...


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Visual here too and have ideas as well. I'll bet $ though that my ideas would be waaay off.

There was a thread in TAO a long time ago where people posted pics. I didn't really know anybody then so I don't remember anyone except ArtGodess(I think) because I thought she was gorgeous!

Here are a couple of factoids about me:
I used to fly glider planes.
I am also a writer.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

I would love find out more, esp pics. I love seeing pics of the kids and from that I try and envision what you mammas look like.

Annikate-no wonder your ideas are expressed so eloquently. What do you write?

Verbal expression is not my strong area- I am a musician, a violist. And I make jewelry, something I haven't done since DS was born and I miss it.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
I would love find out more, esp pics. I love seeing pics of the kids and from that I try and envision what you mammas look like.

Annikate-no wonder your ideas are expressed so eloquently. What do you write?

Verbal expression is not my strong area- I am a musician, a violist. And I make jewelry, something I haven't done since DS was born and I miss it.









Thanks but my brain has NOT been firing correctly lately and truth be told I've done very little writing since dd2 was born.







My latest is a middle reader and I've started on another project which is a secret for now 'cause I'm *thinking* of asking some MDC mamas to contribute.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Annikate-how cool! I can't imagine flying a plane!

Nolansmum-I would love to be musically inclined. My mother plays the violin-I wish I could!

Anyone else? This is neat!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I was a teenager. I'd do it again though!

Anybody wanna play a guessing game?
ff - you are tall w/long dark hair.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Hmmm. I'm 5'6 and do have long hair. It's somewhere between red and brown. In my earlier life (before kids and when I was working) it was about waist length and flaming red (not naturally!)

Annikate-my height, short curly brown hair. Geez, could we get more OT









Amanda and Jane-it would be cheating because I've seen pics.

Caedmyn-I've always pictured you with dark hair, medium length and straight.

It should probably be a different thread, but then I wouldn't learn about all of YOU!


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

I guess we hijacked the thread








Annikate- I picture curly red hair and petite.

FF-I am now evisioning you as a dancer

caedmyn- I picture with glasses


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

NO fair. I wanna see Jane and Amanda too.

Almost 5'7" - have always been darkish blonde and medium length. Recently went darker and shoulder length. No curls though. Pin straight. Poor dds have inherited my hair too.

Okay mamas, lets post pics. I'll post sometime this week if I can but will only leave it up for a little while. I'm weird about that. Don't know why though since dds pics are in my siggy.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
I guess we hijacked the thread








Annikate- I picture curly red hair and petite.

FF-I am now evisioning you as a dancer

caedmyn- I picture with glasses









ff, you've got a reputation now.

Curly hair. I wish.

Nolansmum, I picture you as being thin and *wispy* with a long straight nose.







(I'll tell you my reason for this later.)

This is cracking me up!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Betcha caedmyn is short w/short-ish hair.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I *think* Amanda's is in her sig. Jane posted -hmmm-maybe last year with a pic of her and her GORGEOUS boy. I was shocked at her pic!

HA! The reputation doesn't even come close. Welllllll, close-ish.

You know we are all gonna have to post our pics now! If only I knew how








If only I could scan one from a couple of years ago...you'd never look at me the same way again!







:


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I figured Jane was hot.









No pics from yesteryear allowed. Funny how motherhood changes EVERYTHING. It even changed the way I look. Oh, wait a minute, I look like crap now because I'm SLEEP DEPRIVED.









Off to look for Amanda...You do know you started this don't you GF?


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

I think we need silliness around here once in a while, laughter is good for the gut.

Hmm, a long straight nose?? I am 5'6' and on the thinner side (thanks to BF and SCD) and I just got my hair cut, it is kind of 'whispy'!

I almost don't want to see pics of Jane and Amanda, I guess I have them on a pedistal and if I saw pictures they would become more ...real.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I think you'd make an exception for my yesteryear pics


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Okay, GF, we need a pic *without* a hat and sunglasses.

Nolansmum, your name reminds me of my cousin named Nola who is a wispy sort, pretty and thin. I just always picture her when I see your name. She is a pianist.

Hope to see some pics tomorrow! We can play some more guessing games then. I want to get on Patty and AmyD.







Can't leave them out.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I was gone and missed the fun.

I am a vocalist. In another life I sang Opera.
I also teach voice lessons.
I have taught Montessori as well as ESL and GED classes.
Oh and I was in ministry for several years.

I'm not very visual so I don't really picture anyone any particular way.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Patty-Opera, And Montessori, very cool! My DH is in the orchestra for the Kennedy Center Opera. I bet you have a stage presense, maybe dark luscious hair?


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

I hide behind my son's name here but my name is Beth.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

The ministry?!?!?!? I never would have guessed! We have some very musical people here.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Beth-blondish?


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Well, yes through highlights. One of my last areas of chemical addiction.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
Patty-Opera, And Montessori, very cool! My DH is in the orchestra for the Kennedy Center Opera. I bet you have a stage presense, maybe dark luscious hair?

Very cool! I do have dark hair (that has been know to go red







) Not sure about luscious though.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Gosh, I would love to see pis of y'all.







: Fun reading about everyone. Since kids I have become a massage therapist.

Saw my acupuncturist today after not for a while. He says the mass I had in my abdomin is pretty much gone. Yeah! I do feel that my stomach stuff has gotten much better. However, it still swells up after I eat and tends to be progressive during the day. By night it is basically distended from under my ribs to my pelvis. By morning, it is usually just the the lower abdomin, like a really big pot belly. He told me to do situps.







: Like this is from age and the postpartum belly. Well, some of that might be true, but I don't think that it is all there is to it. I am just hoping that as I continue to get better, it will go away. Now if I could figure out how to lose the 10 lbs I put on since all this started.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force* 
Is there technology now for a group chat with video? Can you see having your screen open with fifteen different video streams from each person in the chat? It would be a group video teleconference. It must be out there, just maybe not all that accessible to us yet. I wouldn't even know how to do a video chat with one person.

yes. it's called "AccessGrid" and most universities have it. because of the bandwidth required for streaming video, i doubt it would be a pleasant experience without the joys of Internet2.

as for one-on-one video chat, Apple has made that pretty simple stupid with their newer iMacs and such - the last round of 'puters have a teeny camera staring you in the face. and then they also beefed up the software offerings to power and control the lil sucker.

there is real-time group text chat - it's called IRC, Internet Relay Chat, an ancient technology that predates AIM, Yahoo chat and the others. that's what we use at work to keep in touch with the other labs in our center (which is dispersed between 2 buildings and 7 locations - some center, eh?). dh and i "met" running IRC servers many many moons ago.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

ff--you're pretty close, although my hair is medium brown and I always wear it up, it is longish and straight. I wear contacts, not glasses, whoever guessed that, and I'm pretty tall (almost 5'9") and very very skinny right at the moment. This is interesting







I didn't really visualize anybody, although sometimes I form impressions about people's personalities.

I used to write kid's stories, although I never tried to publish anything and haven't written much of anything for a long time. I play the piano reasonably well. I love to do artsy-craftsy stuff (sewing, scrapbooking, cross-stitch, that sort of thing). And I used to be a police officer in another (pre-marriage and motherhood) life...if you met me in person you'd never guess that (I'm very quiet)


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

I used to test software, before that I was a temp worker doing all kinds of stuff, including phone canvassing, working at a car rental agency, and the EPA. I was also homeless for almost a year. I am pretty slim now, but for a long time I was a bit chubby. Breastfeeding fixed that, LOL. I have shoulder length light brown hair and I'm about 5'8".


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## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

Is there an October thread? I can't find it...


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Hey-good question...


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

I would LOVE to see pictures! Maybe someone can post some for others.

I am 5'4", medium length brown hair, hazel eyes, fair skin, and weigh a lot. I used to weigh a lot plus ten. Lately I've been afraid to weigh, so it's anybody's guess. I need firefaery's husband's help. Actually, I really just need to work on a diet but just get too busy with other things to focus.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Okay, GF, we need a pic *without* a hat and sunglasses.

Yes, and a full length photo. Oh, but I haven't taken one of those for over a year.







: I'll post a new one in a week or so.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Gale Force-California is the mecca for his style of training. We're going to be out there for a certification in a couple of months (he is for sure, I'm working really hard to be able to do it too. I have a bit to go.) I'm sure he'd be happy to come tell you to lift stuff for the week we'll be there!


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

I worked with a trainer before Frederick was born and I was so muscular. It disturbs me how much I lost in all of those crazy years and then with the thyroid crash, it was all over. I was chunky and muscular before, then just chunky, then just fat. I am trying to work on an exercise program at home since I get to town at most once a week.

So where in California are you going?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

The main "homebase" is in the Santa Cruz area, but there are certifications in San Diego and Vista as well. We would both like to do the Santa Cruz space as we'd like to meet the people we've been talking to. We are waiting for Jan/Feb/March to be scheduled. He's like to go in December, but I don't think I'll be ready for that. I think I'm aiming for late Jan. early Feb. Works out anyway-if they were hosting one in Santa Cruz before the end of the year he'd be going for sure without me!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Me and dd2 this morning.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Here's the October thread.









Oops - I see there already is one!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Okay Annikate! You are so adorable together!


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