# A Woman took DS out of his carseat



## ZanZansMommy (Nov 8, 2003)

It's taken me a few days to even be able to write this. I am still just sick, sick, sick over it. But I felt that by sharing this, perhaps someone else would think twice & not end up in the same situation.

On Sat, DH, DD, DS & I were on our way to go shopping. DS has had a heck of a time sleeping--he's teething---& of course he fell asleep 10 min before we got to the store. So we decided to have lunch 1st & then we'd shop. It was a very warm day--around 80* with a touch of humidity. Since DS was asleep, DD & DH went inside the restaurant & got food, while I stayed in the car with DS. All the windows were rolled down, except for his. I ended up lodging a blanket in his window to keep the direct sunlight off of him. I sat in the car with him for awhile & I was warm but not uncomfortable. I chatted with my mom, a friend & I was about to call my sister when DH & DD came out with the food & sat at the outdoor seating area. This seating area was about 6 ft from the car. I had a great view of DH & DD. DH was about to bring me my food but I motioned for him to stay w/DD & get her to eat 1st.

So DH & DD start eating & DD gets a tad bit fussy with DH. I could hear her saying "No I want Mommy to help me". DH looked over at me &







. So I knew she was getting into one of her moods & was going to struggle with him.

Here is where I wish I could rewind & start all over. I made a move to get out of the car. I hesitated slightly b/c DS was in the car but I convinced myself "ahh what's the big deal. I'm going to be right here". SO I got out & walked over to the table with DD & DH & helped her eat a bite. I turned around to check the car...No problems. I helped her again & looked at the car...no problem. DH said something to me, I sat down, picked up my lunch & took a bite & helped DD simultaneously. Just then my phone rings---it was my sister. I pick it up & say " hey how's it going"--She starts talking & all of a sudden I notice a security guard by my car. I got up immediately & walked to my car. I asked him if there was a problem. He asks, "is this your car?" I say "Yes". Then a woman next to him says "A woman just took your baby out of the car."---This is where I get







: uke & start screaming "WHERE WHERE" & she says inside the restaurant---I make a mad dash inside the restaurant & see this woman holding my son. I run up to her & grab him & she tries to move away. I yanked him from her arms & she starts screaming obscenities at me. I can't even remember what she said. All I could think was OMG I have my son in my arms--Thank You Thank You. This woman wouldn't let up she kept talking about how he was sweating & he was soaking wet---he was warm but he was NOT soaking wet. There was no reasoning with her & frankly I felt no need to explain anything to her. I just wanted to get back to DH & DD. As I'm walking out some man comes at me screaming you b*$ch. Don't you watch the news. Luckily DH got in his way of me & DS & threatened him to back off. More could have gone on but I was in such a fog, I can't remember it all. We waited around to see if the police would show up--b/c they said they'd called them--but they never showed.

I am still just uke to my stomach over this. I never in a million yrs would have ever thought someone would just take my baby out of my car. Luckily she was just a concerned parent & not some deranged baby snatcher. From her POV she probably thought he was in there for god knows how long. Of course she didn't see any of the open windows or even say anything to all the patrons eating outside. How easy it is for someone to judge you for just a few moments in your life.

I went back & checked my cell phone & from the time I hung up with my friend to when my sister called was 2 min & 51 secs. My life could have changed for the worse in less than 3 min







So I hope that by sharing this it will prevent any other Mamas from having to go thru this. You just don't know how quickly your life can change. I am wracked with guilt







over this.


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## Pam_and_Abigail (Dec 2, 2002)

Wow what an overwhelming thing to go through! I hope that sharing it here has helped you process it.


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## Joannarachel (Dec 10, 2005)

That must have been a nightmarish experience for you.

I can say that if I saw a baby alone in a car with no adult evidently in attendance, I would have done the exact same thing, though.








I'm so glad it ended well.


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## Charles Baudelaire (Apr 14, 2003)

Look at it this way - she thought she was protecting your child from death by car. Around here, every summer brings a wave of dead children, and I have to confess, if I saw your car with your child in it, I'd take him out too, and for the same reason. You probably would do the same. I'm glad everyone is okay.


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## fromscatteredtribe (Mar 27, 2003)

about ALL of that story.

so sorry momma and I wish for lots of good to come out of the experience

thanks for sharing!


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## Slabobbin (Jan 29, 2004)

If I saw a baby inside of a car WITH ALL OF THE WINDOWS ROLLED UP and it was summer - yes I would get to him and take him out. I would also STAND BY THE VEHICLE with the baby and call the police. I would never just walk off with the baby - that could get ME a kidnapping charge.

If a saw a baby in a vehicle with the windows rolled down I would make sure the baby was ok and watch to see what happend for a few minutes.

I am SHOCKED at the number of people who have already responded that they would actually remove someone else's baby from a vehicle and walk off with them! My word.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I seriously doubt that I would take him out. But, I would get someone to call the police, or I would call them myself. But, unless it was really hot, and the windows were rolled up, I would just check him for heat related problems.

I also doubt I would say mean things to the mother. But, I might give her a dirty look.









Hey...all's well that ends well.


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## a_work_in_progress (May 17, 2006)

Wow. Just... wow.

Six feet from the car, and she never asked you if it was your kid, or if you had seen the parents?! Just took off with the kid inside the restaurant?! NUTS!

One time I saw a car parked with a very young child left inside of it, and the windows up. I observed the child, and they weren't sweating bad yet, and they were awake. I stood there with my bike beside the car talking to the very young (under 2 y/o) child for at least 5 minutes before the father came out. He had been buying scratch tickets in the store. He said he could view the car the entire time... but obviously he couldn't. He hadn't seen me standing beside the vehicle talking to his child for 5 minutes. I had peeked inside the store when I first saw the kid in the vehicle and there was noone within view. This was a very busy area, too.

Point is, you don't have to necessarily worry just about overheating by leaving a child in a car, but kidnappers as well.

When I was a teenager I worked at a gas station, and a woman came in to pay for gas, leaving her baby in the car. Somebody tried to steal her car with the baby in it! The woman went running after the car, and when the guy realized there was a baby in the back seat, he jumped out of the vehicle and ran down the street. Scary stuff! And this was in a small town!


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## eminer (Jan 21, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *a_work_in_progress*
Six feet from the car, and she never asked you if it was your kid, or if you had seen the parents?! Just took off with the kid inside the restaurant?! NUTS!









: What a horrible, horrible experience.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

I am so sorry this happened to your family.







I am glad that your Ds is safe with you.


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## kissum (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh wow. Oh frightening. I would've have gotten him, but I would've asked people around if he was their child and called the police if no one spoke up. Hugs to you!


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## Amylcd (Jun 16, 2005)

I _would not_ take the baby out of the car, but I would call the police.


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## CalebsMama05 (Nov 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amylcd*
I _would not_ take the baby out of the car, but I would call the police.

yup


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## mightymoo (Dec 6, 2003)

What a horrifying experience to go through - for that small amount of time to think maybe your son was gone. And to know that it can happen so fast and by someone who wasn't even trying to be fast or stealthy. Scary.


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Slabobbin*
If I saw a baby inside of a car WITH ALL OF THE WINDOWS ROLLED UP and it was summer - yes I would get to him and take him out. I would also STAND BY THE VEHICLE with the baby and call the police. I would never just walk off with the baby - that could get ME a kidnapping charge.

If a saw a baby in a vehicle with the windows rolled down I would make sure the baby was ok and watch to see what happend for a few minutes.









:


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## wildmonkeys (Oct 4, 2004)

I am so sorry this happened. It is awful to have a scare with your kids. I almost cried reading your post.

As for the woman's reaction - I really don't know what I would do in that situation - I might call the police or just open the car door and stay there and wait for a parent or I might have yelled out to see if parents heard me. I don't think I would have taken a baby out of a car and walked away, but if I didn't see you I might have panicked thinking the baby had been there awhile. A few years ago we had the saddest story in our metro area where a mom & dad alternated dropping the baby a daycare and one day the dad was so tired and FORGOT it was his day and left that child in the car at the metro and realized when he got to work. Anyway, I am really glad that it turned out okay.

BJ
Barney & Ben


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## bri276 (Mar 24, 2005)

there is no excuse for removing a child who is not yours from a vehicle and then leaving the scene without informing any authorities. that's called kidnapping. I would have stood by to monitor the baby, perhaps felt his forehead and watched his breathing and after a few minutes if no one came back I would have called the police. I would never have screamed at the mother if she came back, I would have listened to her side of the story first.

however, it's not okay to leave an infant alone in a hot car, even for a few minutes- but I think you know this now. you don't need a lecture. I'm sorry that horrible woman took this situation to the extreme.


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## TheHealingRoomChir (Jan 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mightymoo*







What a horrifying experience to go through - for that small amount of time to think maybe your son was gone. And to know that it can happen so fast and by someone who wasn't even trying to be fast or stealthy. Scary.









: That's the first thing I thought of.







I am so glad your ds is safe.


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## Joannarachel (Dec 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bri276*
there is no excuse for removing a child who is not yours from a vehicle and then leaving the scene without informing any authorities. that's called kidnapping. I would have stood by to monitor the baby, perhaps felt his forehead and watched his breathing and after a few minutes if no one came back I would have called the police. I would never have screamed at the mother if she came back, I would have listened to her side of the story first.

.

Seems to me the woman took the baby inside to call 911. Perfectly logical thing to do, especially if she thought the baby was overheated and/or she didn't have a cell phone. I for one won't villify someone who was trying to save a baby's life.


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## bri276 (Mar 24, 2005)

it's a bit of a jump to automatically assume an infant is in critical condition necessitating a 911 call- if you can reach in the window and touch the child and he responds to you by waking and making eye contact, is not panting and as the mother said not soaked in sweat, it is reasonable to assume a parent will be back in a short amount of time and to stand next to the vehicle instead of removing the baby. 911 is for emergencies and there wasn't one yet.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

Wow, I'm so sorry. There isn't much for me to say but I'm sorry and be gentle with yourself, if you are beating yourself up about it.


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## GalateaDunkel (Jul 22, 2005)

Small creatures (babies or pets) in hot cars is such a scary thing. I would definitely take the baby out of the car. In fact, if it was locked I hope I would have the nerve to break the window in order to do so.


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## eloquence (Apr 25, 2006)

I cannot believe she took your child OUT of the carseat. Couldn't she have just have opened the car door for air and waited for the parent a minute or so? Did she have to be so dramatic? I would have waited by the car for a bit before doing anything.

I once left my children in the truck while I went 3 feet in front of it to talk to my friend who came out of her store to talk with me. My oldest locked the door. And my keys were inside. She wasn't strong enough to unlock it. (old truck with knob locks) It wasn't summer but neither my friend or I could get in the truck.

We called the local fire department and they came and unlocked the car. I am really glad no one gave me dirty looks or called me names or anything. That was five years ago.

I take my keys with me and always keep the windows down, now.


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## Alkenny (May 4, 2004)

Less than 3 minutes and she got your son out and inside the building without even asking anyone around if it was their car or baby? She may have been concerned, but she went about it the wrong way. I'm so sorry for your scare.


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## RedWine (Sep 26, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alkenny*
Less than 3 minutes and she got your son out and inside the building without even asking anyone around if it was their car or baby? She may have been concerned, but she went about it the wrong way. I'm so sorry for your scare.









I agree with this. The first thing I would have assumed was that mama was nearby, eating outside very near the car. I would have asked around to see whose car it was (NOT mentioning a baby). I then would have told mama that baby looked a little warm.

If the windows were all rolled up, different story -- I would have yelled loudly, by the car, "Whose baby is this -- he looks very hot!!" -- but that was not the situation.

This woman was looking to create a scene, and did what she did out of righteous indignation, not true, thinking concern.

However, now you know how fast it takes for a baby to be kidnapped. But you don't need a lecture, I know you feel horrible as it is. Hugs, mama. We all make mistakes.


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## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

Quote:

Six feet from the car, and she never asked you if it was your kid, or if you had seen the parents?! Just took off with the kid inside the restaurant?! NUTS!








: If there is anyone old enough to talk within sight of the vehicle, there is no excuse to snatch the baby without asking them about the situation! She had no right to scare you like that!


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## Charles Baudelaire (Apr 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Slabobbin*
If I saw a baby inside of a car WITH ALL OF THE WINDOWS ROLLED UP and it was summer - yes I would get to him and take him out. I would also STAND BY THE VEHICLE with the baby and call the police. I would never just walk off with the baby - that could get ME a kidnapping charge.

If a saw a baby in a vehicle with the windows rolled down I would make sure the baby was ok and watch to see what happend for a few minutes.

I am SHOCKED at the number of people who have already responded that they would actually remove someone else's baby from a vehicle and walk off with them! My word.

Around here, it would be fatally hot; I assumed the woman took him in to cool him off.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)




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## Jwebbal (May 31, 2004)

Quote:

Less than 3 minutes and she got your son out and inside the building without even asking anyone around if it was their car or baby?
I don't get this, the OP was six feet away and didn't notice someone approaching the car, opening the door, taking her baby out? The woman probably didn't realize that the baby had been in the car alone only three minutes, to her it looked like no one was watching the car, which no one was obvioulsy. While I sympathise with the OP that this was a horrible experience, I do not blame the woman who took the baby out, I would have probably done the very same thing. I am not able to fully understand what exactly is going on, all I see is a baby, alone, in a hot car. I would not be watching and waiting, as I have no idea how long that baby has been in there alone.


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## cielle (Apr 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EnviroBecca*







: If there is anyone old enough to talk within sight of the vehicle, there is no excuse to snatch the baby without asking them about the situation! She had no right to scare you like that!









I agree. A child would have to be in truly obvious distress for me to take him out. I probably would have said "Is this your baby? He looks warm!" and waited for the mom to come get him.


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## wende (Oct 4, 2003)

Personally, if I didn't have a cell phone I certainly wouldn't leave the baby in the car and hope that someone with the wrong intentions wouldn't come along while I ran in to call the police. I don't really know what I'd have done in that situation but I'd be glad that someone was looking out for my baby rather than trying to harm him. I don't want to judge. I don't. I just cannot get over the fact that your eyes were off the car long enough for someone to look in, see your child, open the door, unbuckle your baby, and then walk into the restaurant without you even noticing. I know that you were only 6 feet from your car but if you aren't paying attention it doesn't matter if you're 2 feet away or 200.

Thankfully the woman had good intentions. I can't say in the heat of the moment that I'd have not reacted exactly the same way. Who knows what we would do if we saw a baby alone in a car. Would we have asked around first? I don't know that logic always comes into play when we feel that a baby may be in danger. For all she knew the baby had been in the car alone for an hour. Nobody appeared to be paying attention and if I was able to not only open the door of someones car but to also remove an infant from a vehicle w/o his mother seeing me, I'd probably think that she wasn't around. In my panic for the safety of the child, I might very well have yelled and cussed too.

Yes, not the greatest way to deal with the situation but you don't know until you're there how you would react. I can't believe so many people here are making the woman in the story out to be the bad guy. She thought she was saving the baby's life. Good for her. Can you imagine how she'd have felt if she'd just walked away and found out later on the news that the baby had been kidnapped or died because he became overheated?


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jwebbal*
I don't get this, the OP was six feet away and didn't notice someone approaching the car, opening the door, taking her baby out? The woman probably didn't realize that the baby had been in the car alone only three minutes, to her it looked like no one was watching the car, which no one was obvioulsy. While I sympathise with the OP that this was a horrible experience, I do not blame the woman who took the baby out, I would have probably done the very same thing. I am not able to fully understand what exactly is going on, all I see is a baby, alone, in a hot car. I would not be watching and waiting, as I have no idea how long that baby has been in there alone.

This is exactly what I was thinking. How can you be that close and not see someone opening your door and removing your baby?


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## Joannarachel (Dec 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
This is exactly what I was thinking. How can you be that close and not see someone opening your door and removing your baby?

I was wondering the same thing







:


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wende*
Personally, if I didn't have a cell phone I certainly wouldn't leave the baby in the car and hope that someone with the wrong intentions wouldn't come along while I ran in to call the police. I don't really know what I'd have done in that situation but I'd be glad that someone was looking out for my baby rather than trying to harm him. I don't want to judge. I don't. I just cannot get over the fact that your eyes were off the car long enough for someone to look in, see your child, open the door, unbuckle your baby, and then walk into the restaurant without you even noticing. I know that you were only 6 feet from your car but if you aren't paying attention it doesn't matter if you're 2 feet away or 200.

Thankfully the woman had good intentions. I can't say in the heat of the moment that I'd have not reacted exactly the same way. Who knows what we would do if we saw a baby alone in a car. Would we have asked around first? I don't know that logic always comes into play when we feel that a baby may be in danger. For all she knew the baby had been in the car alone for an hour. Nobody appeared to be paying attention and if I was able to not only open the door of someones car but to also remove an infant from a vehicle w/o his mother seeing me, I'd probably think that she wasn't around. In my panic for the safety of the child, I might very well have yelled and cussed too.

Yes, not the greatest way to deal with the situation but you don't know until you're there how you would react. I can't believe so many people here are making the woman in the story out to be the bad guy. She thought she was saving the baby's life. Good for her. Can you imagine how she'd have felt if she'd just walked away and found out later on the news that the baby had been kidnapped or died because he became overheated?


ITA. If someone was able to take your baby out of your car without you noticing there was a very serious lack of attention here. How could you NOT notice this?

The woman did what she thought was right. An overheated child may not even be sweating any more. She did the smart thing by moving him into the restaurant and seeking the assistance of security.


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bri276*
it's a bit of a jump to automatically assume an infant is in critical condition necessitating a 911 call- if you can reach in the window and touch the child and he responds to you by waking and making eye contact, is not panting and as the mother said not soaked in sweat, it is reasonable to assume a parent will be back in a short amount of time and to stand next to the vehicle instead of removing the baby. 911 is for emergencies and there wasn't one yet.

911 is to get ahold of police. A child unattended in a car, especially that young, is an emergency. I would've called 911 too to get some police there ASAP if I didn't see parents. I too have to wonder how far away the parents were. Here it's illegal to leave a child under the age of 7 in a car alone, especially w/ no air on. You can get up to 7 yrs in jail for it.


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## sweetest (May 6, 2004)

It sounds like you have been far harder on yourself than anyone else could









I also think I would have done what the woman did -better to over react a bit and have an upset mother than do too little and have the unthinkable happen


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## 20605 (Oct 11, 2004)

Sorry, but I don't think the OP should be blasted...as some of the PPs have been doing. She came here looking for support, not recriminations - she is probably doing that all by herself!!!!!

Was it a mistake, yes...has she learned? yes...was the woman right in taking the babe without checking? ABSOLUTELY NOT!

I was in a similar situation once in ABQ NM - were spring temps can be fatal. A park very similar to OPs situation. Saw the babe in the car. Approached and saw the family behind the car. I had to walk around the car to see the family. From my original vantage point - babe in car possibly dying...help....but because I walked around the car, saw car doors open on that side and family right there.

Absolutely check, but don't take action unless you actually know there is action to take!








to OP...PS...I would have filed a complaint against the woman - she didn't even bother to see what was going on first!


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## glendora (Jan 24, 2005)

That baby would be inside in air-conditioning in a heartbeat. I've done it before, and I'll do it again. And, I don't actually think it's kidnapping if you go straight to management to report it. I was raised in Texas, and I don't mess around with cars, kids and heat. And, I honestly don't give two hoots about how much it would T-off the mama--one woman threatened to kick my butt in an Albertson's b/c she "only ran in the store for a minute!" But, her baby was wailing in the car and her 3 or 4 year old dd was wandering the parkinglot crying and hopping to keep her bare feet from burning on the pavement.


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## forthebest (Jun 19, 2006)

Sorry this happened to you and thankfully all is well







no way would i remove a child like that and she shoulda asked around first and observed the situation rationally.She didn't,she got on her high horse and immediately judged you and that's crap. Awful that you can't leave a child for coupla mins without this kinda thing or worse,imo it just intensifies the pressures put on parents,at least she was just concerned(tho hasty) other than the other possibilities,makes me insane to know our kids are under possible threat at any time, don't feel guilty,you were right there! hugs


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## Jilian (Jun 16, 2003)

I think I may have done the same thing in that situation - but I probably would have asked around first to see if anyone knew who's baby it was. Seeing a baby alone in a car scares the hell out of me. I don't want to be mean, but how did you not notice someone opening the door and taking your baby out and then walking away with the baby? It must have been really scary for you and I hope you learned your lesson. I'm glad your baby is ok.


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

Hugs to the OP. I'm so sorry you had to go through that. That had to be so horrifying to know someone took your son and not know where he was.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rani*
I would have filed a complaint against the woman - she didn't even bother to see what was going on first!

I disagree. That woman did what she thought was best. Do you agree? No. But she did not harm the child, she was trying to help. Yes, she should have asked around to find the parents. But maybe the baby did look hot to her so she took him inside to some air conditioning, while getting a security guard to find the parents. To HER that may have seemed like a logical thing to do. Pressing charges on her would only make her (and others) wary to help out again, which could result in other kids sitting in hot cars, sick or dying, with people passing right by for fear of being arrested for helping.

What a sad world we live in.


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## Joannarachel (Dec 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rani*








to OP...PS...I would have filed a complaint against the woman - she didn't even bother to see what was going on first!

Ok..that's a little funny.

If she had tried to file a complaint against that woman, the police would have A. Laughed her right out of the police station and then quite possibly B. Followed her out and arrested her for neglect.

Sorry, but the woman who took the baby out absolutely did the right thing. I feel for the OP, I really do. Hopefully she learned her lesson. But she was definitely in the wrong.


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## Jwebbal (May 31, 2004)

Quote:

Sorry, but I don't think the OP should be blasted...as some of the PPs have been doing. She came here looking for support, not recriminations - she is probably doing that all by herself!!!!!
I didn't see anyone blasting the OP, I saw lots of support, hugs, some questions and a lot of empathy for both her and the woman who took the baby out of the car. Blasting looks really different. And yes, I am sure the OP is harder on herself than anyone ever could be, but the fact is that there are parents out there who are still very hard on themselves for mistakes they made, but their children are dead now. Thankfully this wasn't any where near the case here, but we all know where a baby alone in a hot car can lead to, and I don't blame anyone for taking precautions to keep that from happening. It would be an entirely different thing if the mom had noticed the woman taking the baby out of the car, and went up to her and explained the situation, but it wasn't, the mom was on the phone, and she was not watching as closely as she should have been. We all make mistakes but the best thing is many times we are given opportunities to learn from them without suffering severe consequences.


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## CYL (Jun 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Joannarachel*
Ok..that's a little funny.

If she had tried to file a complaint against that woman, the police would have A. Laughed her right out of the police station and then quite possibly B. Followed her out and arrested her for neglect.

Sorry, but the woman who took the baby out absolutely did the right thing. I feel for the OP, I really do. Hopefully she learned her lesson. But she was definitely in the wrong.

Actually, she didn't do anything wrong at all. Read the OP, and you'll see that all the windows in the car were rolled down, the baby wasn't in direct sunlight, and the family was only a few feet away, trying to let the poor kid have some sleep, which his mother says he has difficulty with.

Exactly what did she do wrong?

The police would not laugh her out of the station for reporting it, and they certainly wouldn't arrest her for neglect.

The woman who took the child out of the car seat did so without asking anyone nearby whose car it was, and moved the baby into another building without saying anything to anyone. Luckily she was only concerned, but she could quite as easily have been about to kidnap him. Taking the child away without a word to anyone nearby, who could quite easily be the kids family, is wrong.


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## TripMom (Aug 26, 2005)

What I can't believe is how fast the woman was able to get the carseat undone? I feel like I am in there struggling for a long time . . . with the door open and my rear hanging out . . . trying not to bang the car door into the car next to us. That is a really really scary story! I can not believe that she could get all that accomplished without drawing your attention. I am so sorry you had to go through that scare!


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

Quote:

Exactly what did she do wrong?
I don't want her to feel any more guilty than she already does, but she apparently went far away enough from her car long enough for someone to take her child.

I think this was handled badly all around. I wouldn't have walked away from my baby in a car, I probably would've yelled "hey, whose kid is this" and if someone did take my child inside to get help, I don't think I'd freak out on her and I'd hope to avoid causing her to feel defensive and yell at me. We WANT people to react FAST when children are left alone in cars. That's a good thing.


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## magster (May 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ZanZansMommy*
From her POV she probably thought he was in there for god knows how long. Of course she didn't see any of the open windows or even say anything to all the patrons eating outside. How easy it is for someone to judge you for just a few moments in your life.


I don't get this part. Of course she must have seen the windows down, unless you closed them before going over to your DD and DH. And how DID she spot your son if his window was covered with a blanket to block out the direct sunlight?

I feel sorry for you, I really do, it must have been nervewrecking.

Having said that, I think the woman did the right thing. Hots cars and babies don't mix. Hot cars, babies and no apparent responsible adult around even less so.


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## MommaCrystal (May 25, 2006)

I think the real message here is that things can happen fast even when you think you are being diligent. We can debate the specific circumstances until the end of time but really we should just learn from it. You can never be too careful.

Think about it... you're in a store with your DC in a cart... turn your head to look at something and poof...

Your in a large crowd at an event, dear child at you side.... poof...

I'm using this story to remind myself that there is no such thing as too careful.

Thank you OP for sharing your story. It will stay with me and perhaps keep me on my toes better and I will not find myself in a similar scary situation not knowing where my DC is.


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## Tonia80 (Jun 10, 2006)

I agree it is a lesson well learned and it will stay in teh back of my mind as a reminder. No blame being thrown here one way or another. OP shared her story because it hit her how fast a good intention can go wrong. Thank you for sharing.


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## L&IsMama (Jan 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *forthebest*
Awful that you can't leave a child for coupla mins without this kinda thing or worse,imo it just intensifies the pressures put on parents,at least she was just concerned(tho hasty) other than the other possibilities,makes me insane to know our kids are under possible threat at any time, don't feel guilty,you were right there! hugs

It's awful that you can't leave a child for a "coupla minutes"? Are you serious? :shock And since when is "pressure" to keep our kids safe a bad thing?







:


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

I think people here are reacting to two things here. One, and mainly, the pp's claim that she was just six feet away from her car (that only the length of a sort of tall man.... really really close) yet did not hear or see someone who in less than three minutes (during which time OP was looking at car several times) was:

1) looking around her car

2) opening her car door

3) unstrapping her baby from his car seat

4) lifting him out

5) closing the car door

6) carrying him into a restaurant.

7) Summonning security and giving them ennough info for security to find her car and understand that child was alone and for security to have time to walk over to the car.

Oh and also in that less than three minutes the woman first: observes her dh and child come out of restaurant, see dd start to get fussy, gets out of car herself and walks over to table.

Something about the timing and scenario does not make sense.

And also I think people are reacting to the posters who are blaming the person who did this as acting inappropriately when all she did was carry a child who was in a hot car into a cool place and summon someone to help.


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## Joannarachel (Dec 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maya44*
I think people here are reacting to two things here. One, and mainly, the pp's claim that she was just six feet away from her car (that only the length of a sort of tall man.... really really close) yet did not hear or see someone who in less than three minutes (during which time OP was looking at car several times) was:

1) looking around her car

2) opening her car door

3) unstrapping her baby from his car seat

4) lifting him out

5) closing the car door

6) carrying him into a restaurant.

7) Summonning security and giving them ennough info for security to find her car and understand that child was alone and for security to have time to walk over to the car.

Oh and also in that less than three minutes the woman first: observes her dh and child come out of restaurant, see dd start to get fussy, gets out of car herself and walks over to table.

Something about the timing and scenario does not make sense.

And also I think people are reacting to the posters who are blaming the person who did this as acting inappropriately when all she did was carry a child who was in a hot car into a cool place and summon someone to help.









Exactly.

I feel no ill-will towards the OP, although I think she may not have been entirely honest in her description of the timing and scenario, just to be clear. I really do feel bad for her.


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## OakBerry (May 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maya44*
I think people here are reacting to two things here. One, and mainly, the pp's claim that she was just six feet away from her car (that only the length of a sort of tall man.... really really close) yet did not hear or see someone who in less than three minutes (during which time OP was looking at car several times) was:

1) looking around her car

2) opening her car door

3) unstrapping her baby from his car seat

4) lifting him out

5) closing the car door

6) carrying him into a restaurant.

7) Summonning security and giving them ennough info for security to find her car and understand that child was alone and for security to have time to walk over to the car.

Oh and also in that less than three minutes the woman first: observes her dh and child come out of restaurant, see dd start to get fussy, gets out of car herself and walks over to table.

Something about the timing and scenario does not make sense.

And also I think people are reacting to the posters who are blaming the person who did this as acting inappropriately when all she did was carry a child who was in a hot car into a cool place and summon someone to help.

Ita. I think the woman taking the baby into the a/c and alerting authority was ok, a little scary to think that a stranger picked up your child, but ok.
The fact that she and the other man screamed at the OP and berated her, not ok.


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## stellimamo (Jan 9, 2006)

OP I'm so sorry you experienced this. I have done similiar things w/ my dd before. Left her in the car w/ the windows down sitting w/in view and only a few feet away. I see nothing wrong w/ that. Whats the difference between actually being in the car and only a few feet away? Not much.

I can not beleive that woman had the gull to take your child out of the car thats absolutly insane! The fact that she didn't ask the people sitting outside is just as crazy. I personally would have called the police on her for trespass and kidnapping!

In that situation I would have only removed the child if they were in grave danger and then only after making sure the child's parents were not in the vacinity.


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## Christine&men (Jun 4, 2005)

Well, I am "paranoid" about my children. A friend of mine had a lady "take" her daughter in a mall (everything is fine). And with all the stories going around, no, I would not let my child stay sort of unattended in the car (open windows or not). That's what the drive-through is for (although I don't like eating in the car).

Having said this: How come that woman did not see that all the windows were open? Maybe she just wanted to be in the news about rescuing a baby? I just don't know.

I would have checked the car and if I had not seen anyone belonging to the car ask questions to the people around, but I would have stayed with the babe in the car (not taking him out if the windows were open).

Also, I once parked my car in front of Babies'R Us and a woman approached me: She had inadvertently locked her babe in the car!!! We called 911 and the fire department came within minutes and opened the car (it was a cold winter day, so no danger of heat exhaustion or else I would have taken my shoe and broke a window). The fire dept. opened the car in seconds! Better than any car thiefs I imagine...


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## eggplant (Jun 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *a_work_in_progress*
Wow. Just... wow.

Six feet from the car, and she never asked you if it was your kid, or if you had seen the parents?! Just took off with the kid inside the restaurant?! NUTS!


Quote:

If there is anyone old enough to talk within sight of the vehicle, there is no excuse to snatch the baby without asking them about the situation! She had no right to scare you like that!
So, say she HAD just generally called out "whose baby is this??" What's to stop anyone from claiming the baby? SHE had no way to know parent was right there. In fact, she had every reason to believe the parent *wasn't* right there, since after all, if a parent had been watching, surely that parent would have stopped her from opening the car door and removing the baby!

I don't know if I would have removed the baby myself or called out, but I would hope that I would have had the guts to remove the baby and get security just like she did. Even with windows cracked kids (and animals) have died in cars. SHE knew she wasn't kidnapping the baby. I'm sorry the OP was scared like that, but better a brief scare than a dead kid, imo.

Quote:

Sorry, but I don't think the OP should be blasted...as some of the PPs have been doing. She came here looking for support, not recriminations - she is probably doing that all by herself!!!!!
One of the things the OP said was "How easy it is for someone to judge you for just a few moments in your life." Some of her post sounded like a warning to others, which I thought was reasonable (although I'd hope the warning was more about the danger of what she did then the possibility of being called out like she was). THis, and some other parts, sounded to me more like asking people to agree with her that the woman who took her baby was in the wrong. I don't think she was - I think she did the right thing. So no, I'm not going to support someone who is pissed off that someone tried to protect her child from danger, especially since that someone did that without the OP's managing to notice it at all until called over by security.

Quote:

Actually, she didn't do anything wrong at all. Read the OP, and you'll see that all the windows in the car were rolled down, the baby wasn't in direct sunlight, and the family was only a few feet away, trying to let the poor kid have some sleep, which his mother says he has difficulty with.

Exactly what did she do wrong?

Quote:

The police would not laugh her out of the station for reporting it, and they certainly wouldn't arrest her for neglect.
Sure they could. She did leave the child unattended in the car, and more importantly, *didn't notice* that someone else came and took the child out of the car and to the store. Didn't notice security AT her car, until they called her over directly. What did she do wrong??? She was oblivious to all of that. It doesn't matter how close she is if she's not watching, and the fact is, she wasn't watching, or none of the other stuff could have happened.

I'm glad the child is safe. I'm glad he wasn't killed from heat, and I'm glad he wasn't kidnapped. I'm glad the mom is suffering only from being scared, and not from all the what-ifs she'd be suffering from had either of those things actually happened. But I'm sure not gonna condemn a stranger for taking an unattended child from a car on a hot day inside to a security guard.


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stellimamo*
Whats the difference between actually being in the car and only a few feet away? Not much.

Actually, a great, great deal.

The OP's experience shows that being a few feet away is enough to allow someone to take your child.

Additionally, if you're not in the car, how do you know if it's cool enough? That situation could change in a second, if the sun comes out from behind clouds, or shifts position in the sky to be more direct on the child, or the breeze could stop, anything.

It happens all the time.


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stellimamo*
Whats the difference between actually being in the car and only a few feet away? Not much.

As I think the OP proved- there is a BIG difference between being in the car and being a few feet away. *If* she had been in the car the whole time she would have noticed some stranger taking her baby out of his carseat and bringing him into the store. But she was "a few feet away" and missed that entirely. It's easy to get distracted, especially when you have other kids needing your attention. 1 minute turns into 2, which turns into 5. And before you know it your baby is missing. Thank G*d some honest person "took" this mamas baby, or else it could have ended a lot worse.


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## newmommy (Sep 15, 2003)

If it was a matter of life and death, I don't blame the woman for taking the baby out of a Hot Car and by doing so could have saved your Baby's life.

*Moral of the story- Don't leave a Baby... in a Hot Car... Unattended... Again.*

That's all.


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## sunshinestarr (Jan 5, 2006)




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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

I think the OP did something wrong, actually. But without being there, I'm inclined to think the woman who took him out was also out of line. Yes, you have to err on the safe side with kids, but people also err on the side of assuming the worst of parents. When I saw the windows were open, I would have checked on the kid, tried to even determine how hot it might be in the car, and stood around for at least a few minutes, or shouted out to people standing nearby. Taking a kid out of a car is a *big* deal, even if you think you are being a good samaritan. I guess for me it depends on how long she was truly standing there, how hot is was, how much the windows were open. And no one knows but the op. Because giving people free reign to "rescue" kids whenever they deem necessary would be a little frightening, hotcar danger aside.


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

A very scarey situation for you and the mom who thought your baby was unattended. Im glad all ended well. My friends brother died while unattended as an infant. Mom left him in the car and when she came back he was dead. The other little boy lived. Mom did 5 years in jail.


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## sweetangelbrynlie (Jun 23, 2005)

How scary. Such a scary story.

Im so paranoid that I always get full service gas where they put it in for you, I won't even leave my kids in the car to walk to the pay window (not a store, just a little booth outside, maybe 10 feet away)

You just can never trust people.

I don't think I would have taken the baby out of the car with the window open, but I surely would have stood beside the car until an adult came back.

There are just so many storys of kids dying in hot cars that it makes people really notice it which is a wonderful thing that they do because they just might actually help a child one day.

But, sorry you had to go through that.


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## bamamom (Dec 9, 2004)

well, having grown up in the deep south where it is literally 110 degrees in the SHADE, I know that the inside of cars is deadly to children on a regular basis.

I can't say I've NEVER left my kids in the car...In the dead of winter with snow, sleet and such, I have been known to grab a nice lady in the mail it shop and station her near my car , and lock my kids in with my remote. I just couldnt drag them out in the driving snow.

but....I would have noticed that someone was in my car, taking my kid out, unstrapping them, etc.

I hope everyone takes this as a reminder to never leave your kids in a hot car ever

if i saw a baby alone in a hot car, YES, i would have checked onthe baby, and started actively looking for someone nearby. If i couldnt find anyone, you'd darn better believe I would take that baby out and call 911. If the momma bothers to show up , and freaks out, then so be it, but i'm still gonna ask where she was, and why didnt she take her baby with her?


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## Greensleeves (Aug 4, 2004)

OP, thanks for having the courage to post about this. Your story could save some family a lot of heartache.


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## onlyzombiecat (Aug 15, 2004)

ZanZansMommy- I'm glad your baby is safe and in your arms again. I'm sure this was really hard to post and you learned a scary lesson. Thanks for the reminder.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sweetangelbrynlie*
How scary. Such a scary story.

Im so paranoid that I always get full service gas where they put it in for you, I won't even leave my kids in the car to walk to the pay window (not a store, just a little booth outside, maybe 10 feet away)

I don't even know where to find one of those. I haven't seen one in quite a while. There could still be a few around here, but I don't know where.

I use prepay - debit or credit card at the pump.


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## a_work_in_progress (May 17, 2006)

I find it interesting that not a single person mentioned the dad! The OP was obviously busy. She was caring for the other child, and on the phone at the same time. What was her DH doing?

ZanZansMommy, I hope you had a nice talking to with your hubby. You shouldn't have had to tell him to watch the baby while you were busy with the other child. He should've already been keeping an eye out. You did nothing wrong. You weren't the unobservant one. IMO, it was your husband's duty to watch the baby at that particular moment in time, and he failed you and the baby. I'd be more upset with him than the woman who took the baby out of the vehicle. Speak with him about coordinating childcare while out and about. If your attention if focused on one child, he should automatically keep an eye out on the other child.


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## mommaof3 (Dec 11, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bamamom*
if i saw a baby alone in a hot car, YES, i would have checked onthe baby, and started actively looking for someone nearby. If i couldnt find anyone, you'd darn better believe I would take that baby out and call 911. If the momma bothers to show up , and freaks out, then so be it, but i'm still gonna ask where she was, and why didnt she take her baby with her?

Yes, but the "momma bothers to show up" scenario isn't the case with this good mama (the OP), obviously, she was right there, and was totally freaked out when she was informed a stranger had her baby. So, I don't understand, it wasn't too hot when she was IN the car with him, so why was it suddenly too hot when she was 6 feet away? Also, people freak out about the idea of a stranger kidnapping their child, but it's SO RARE that in fact your child is 200 times more likely to die of a sudden heart attack (but mamas don't go around worrying about that). Give the OP a break, she was doing just fine parenting...IMO, a much greater danger to humanity lies in over-protection, relentless judgment of mothers, and busy-bodies interfering in other people's lives! That woman who took the baby from the car and then yelled at the poor distraught mama should be ashamed of herself! And OP, I am so sorry this happened to you, and glad that your baby is safe in your arms!!


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## sweetangelbrynlie (Jun 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
I don't even know where to find one of those. I haven't seen one in quite a while. There could still be a few around here, but I don't know where.

I use prepay - debit or credit card at the pump.

There are all over here, I live in a small town though where most pumps don't even have credit card acceptance and the pump.


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommaof3*
So, I don't understand, it wasn't too hot when she was IN the car with him, so why was it suddenly too hot when she was 6 feet away?

It's not the distance- it's the time. I'm not saying the baby was too heated, but to the woman who took the baby she had NO idea how long the baby was actually in the car. I assume she didn't watch the family drive up, watch the mama get out of the car, and then go take the baby. The way it sounds she was probably walking by, saw the baby in the car, and took him out. A baby or small child can overheat in minutes. Although the mama said it was "warm but not uncomfortable" to her, doesn't mean it didn't feel that way to a small child (whose body obviously heats up faster than an adults).

From the sounds of the OP the baby had to have been alone in the car for at least 3 minutes. She walked 6 feet from the car to the eating area, turned to check on the car, helped her dd take a bite, checked the car, help dd take a bite, check the car, her DH said something to her, she sat down, took a bite of her lunch, helped dd take a bite, answered her phone, and then noticed a security guard by her car. The OP says this happened in 2 minutes and 51 seconds.

In the same 2 minutes and 51 seconds some stranger managed to get her baby out of the car, into the store, find a security guard, and the security guard got to the OP's car. I'm sorry, but logic says either there was more time involved than 2 minutes and 51 seconds, the OP didn't check the car every 30 seconds or so when she first got there, or something else.

I feel for this mama, I really do. And it takes a lot of guts to post what happened on here. I hope we can all learn from it.


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## ILuvMyBaby (Feb 24, 2004)

Tried to read the whole thread...but I am just feel







:

Anyways, I just wanted to add that there have been a lot of news around here lately about people forgetting their children in their cars. Dads forgetting to bring them to daycare or what not and they are in the car all day. This woman who took the baby out had no way of knowing the amount of time the baby was in the car. She might have been thinking that someone "forgot" the child. If it was truly a parent that forgot for whatever reason, I think it is great that the woman took the child out of the car. It could have saved the child's life.

Again, I know this is not this specific situation, but the woman really had no way of knowing and could have jumped to conclusions and really was trying to save this child.

To the OP, sorry you had to deal with this scary situation. Thank you for sharing your story. Hugs...


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## mommaof3 (Dec 11, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StephandOwen*
I'm not saying the baby was too heated

A baby or small child can overheat in minutes. Although the mama said it was "warm but not uncomfortable" to her, doesn't mean it didn't feel that way to a small child (whose body obviously heats up faster than an adults).


Are you saying the baby was too heated, or not?

And, if you had looked into a car and saw a baby sleeping in a car seat, with a mama right next to him, would you have still worried about the baby over-heating?
It seems like folks are looking to blame the OP for SOMETHING, anything, and that's too bad. We mamas need to give each other support and love, and save the criticism and blame for people who actually abuse their children.


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommaof3*
Are you saying the baby was too heated, or not?









I wasn't there. How would I know? All I know is that it only takes a few minutes for a baby to overheat. In 80 degree humid weather it wouldn't take all that long for a child to overheat in a car (especially if the window right next to him is closed- even if there was a slight breeze coming through the other windows I don't see how the breeze would have hit him, seeing that the window next to him was closed. It's the same thing in my car- the drivers window doesn't open. All other ones do. My ds is generally cool in the backseat while I'm driving because he has a breeze on him- I'm still hotter than heck because I don't get a breeze).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommaof3*
And, if you had looked into a car and saw a baby sleeping in a car seat, with a mama right next to him, would you have still worried about the baby over-heating?

I probably would have, but I certaintly wouldn't have taken a child out of a car with his parent sitting right next to him. I would hope that parent had some sense and could tell if it got too hot in the car for the babe. Something you can't do from 6 feet away.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommaof3*
It seems like folks are looking to blame the OP for SOMETHING, anything, and that's too bad. We mamas need to give each other support and love, and save the criticism and blame for people who actually abuse their children.

I don't see it that way. I see this as a learning tool- a lesson for other moms (and dads) that things can change in an instant. And also to listen to your instinct. This mama said "I hesitated slightly b/c DS was in the car but I convinced myself "ahh what's the big deal. I'm going to be right here"." If she had listened to that little voice then it wouldn't have happened.


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## Shirelle (May 22, 2006)

*HUGS* to the OP. How scary for you....thank goodness your baby was in the arms of a well-intentioned person.

Here in TX, we don't play around with kids in cars...so I probably would have done the same thing (minus the yelling and berating, LOL). I have no room to talk, as I've made many parenting mistakes. Live and learn


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## americastamps (Jan 3, 2006)

I think it was really brave of the orginial poster to post this to help remind us other moms how quickly a decision can change our lives.
I agree with what the lady did because she had no clue how long babe had been sitting there, and it is better to be safe than sorry. But at the same time I can see how traumatic and scary that was for this mama to have gone through such an experience. It took a lot of guts for her to post about it here and I hope she knows that she has everyone's support. People make mistakes we are all human and she is sharing a mistake to help spare someone else having to go through it. So mama, don't be too hard on yourself, you have learned the lesson and your sweet baby is fine.

And remember to share your story with everyone you know!
Erica


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## americastamps (Jan 3, 2006)

I think it was really brave of the orginial poster to post this to help remind us other moms how quickly a decision can change our lives.
I agree with what the lady did because she had no clue how long babe had been sitting there, and it is better to be safe than sorry. But at the same time I can see how traumatic and scary that was for this mama to have gone through such an experience. It took a lot of guts for her to post about it here and I hope she knows that she has everyone's support. People make mistakes we are all human and she is sharing a mistake to help spare someone else having to go through it. So mama, don't be too hard on yourself, you have learned the lesson and your sweet baby is fine.

And remember to share your story with everyone you know!
Erica


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## AllyRae (Dec 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommaof3*
It seems like folks are looking to blame the OP for SOMETHING, anything, and that's too bad.

I don't think anyone's trying to "blame" the OP. But the fact of the matter is she was supposedly close to the car, but didn't notice what could have potentially been the kidnapping of her child. So, she was obviously not close enough. Moral of the story--never turn your back on your child. It only takes a few seconds for them to disappear--you may be 6 feet away, but if you can not see and hear someone entering your vehicle in a non-sneaky way, removing your child from a carseat, closing the car door, and walking away with your child, then you are not in a position to appropriately keep your child safe. Heat or no heat, the OP did not take appropriate measures to ensure the child's safety--next time someone could enter the car, remove the child from the carseat, walk away with that child and this time instead of entering a store, the child could be put in another car and taken away by a dishonest individual. She should be on her knees thanking God that tonight, her child is in her arms and not a statistic on the evening news.


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## Shirelle (May 22, 2006)

Quote:

She should be on her knees thanking God that tonight, her child is in her arms and not a statistic on the evening news.
She probably is. I think all of our children have had some scary close calls. I always admire when someone can be honest enough to say they've made a mistake. Mothers can be really good at pretending like they've never made a mistake, especially in the company of other mothers.


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## bamamom (Dec 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AllyRae*
Moral of the story--never turn your back on your child. It only takes a few seconds for them to disappear--you may be 6 feet away, but if you can not see and hear someone entering your vehicle in a non-sneaky way, removing your child from a carseat, closing the car door, and walking away with your child, then you are not in a position to appropriately keep your child safe. Heat or no heat, the OP did not take appropriate measures to ensure the child's safety--next time someone could enter the car, remove the child from the carseat, walk away with that child and this time instead of entering a store, the child could be put in another car and taken away by a dishonest individual. She should be on her knees thanking God that tonight, her child is in her arms and not a statistic on the evening news.

Well said, mama.


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## AllyRae (Dec 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shirelle*
She probably is. I think all of our children have had some scary close calls. I always admire when someone can be honest enough to say they've made a mistake. Mothers can be really good at pretending like they've never made a mistake, especially in the company of other mothers.

I definately agree that it was a mistake, and a very sad situation. I don't fault either of them--the OP was probably a little distracted and the lady who took the baby was just trying to help. I'm just glad it turned out ok in the end...


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

hugs lola. being a mamma makes us vulnerable, and it can be a tricky balance with more than one child plus dh.

sorry guys, i see the viewpoints, but if you happen to feel bold enough to take a baby out of a car and not wait right there, and then shout obscenities when a woman upset, obviously the mamma, grabs the baby, i'm not sure i can be entirely sympathetic to your intentions.


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## Rivka5 (Jul 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maya44*
The woman did what she thought was right. An overheated child may not even be sweating any more. She did the smart thing by moving him into the restaurant and seeking the assistance of security.

Exactly. One of the symptoms of heatstroke is _dry_ skin - sweating shuts down. And a seriously overheated child may be past the point of crying, too, and may just look sleepy or asleep. So I don't think it's a good idea to base your judgment on whether the child is in "obvious distress," as some have said.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shirelle*
She probably is. I think all of our children have had some scary close calls. I always admire when someone can be honest enough to say they've made a mistake. Mothers can be really good at pretending like they've never made a mistake, especially in the company of other mothers.

Yeah that.

I also think the fear of stranger abduction is really overplayed on here. It is statistically a rarity.

I don't think this mama did anything wrong, and I would have been enraged had somebody picked up my child out of my vehicle without permission. She is lucky she didn't get assaulted. A freaked out mama is a force to be reckoned with.


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## matts_mamamama (Mar 19, 2004)

Wow. I know things can happen in an instant, but I'm amazed that the lady was able to get the baby out of his carseat that fast She obviously was an experienced mama! That said, she had NO right to go into the car and take that child out. I'm not sure if the OP said how warm it was, but parked in the shade on a 70 degree, no humidity day is VERY different that 100 degrees in the sun.
I've been known to leave a kid or two in the car in various circumstances - in the OPs situation, I would have grabbed a blanket out of the car and sat down right next to the car to eat with dh and dd. Live and learn. I'm sure the OP has at this point.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

lola,
by now, possibly you are exhausted by email alerts with such a myriad of comentary abt your actions, and hope you have unsubscribed if it hurts you. i thought abt this post last night, and i am sorry that after opening your heart you would be accused of not being safe, and for those to speak of you in third person so there is little way to defend yourself. this kind of judgmental attitude could be hard on yourself and kids too. i'm sorry that we have to experience fear in such a petty way, and i continue to work very hard to find my balance with what is appropriate for me, to control vulnerability and agreement with my parenting ideals even in a world that does not always agree. and yes, i am being judgmental here and will quit it right now - sometimes computers and communication and people don't mix exactly right - intentions can be misconstrued and us sensitive parents can flare up in all sorts of ways. when i read this thread first, i was more hurt by it - today reading it, i can see the good intentions better.

it is difficult to raise our kids truly lovingly if we live in fear. i have "heard" that in the netherlands it is safe to park your pram with a sleeping baby while you go inside a shop. whether or not it is factually true, certainly the concept is not that impossible to imagine and i personally strive for that easy feeling. certainly the world could be a safer, more trusting space. and to teach our kids how to make such a place, and live appropriately, we have to embody these ideals to an extent. and yes, that can makes us vulnerable.

i have to believe that members on this board are as conscious of their parenting decisions as we possibly can, and thus the interesting viewpoints. the sensational stories of neglect you hear on the news are usually of reactionary, unconscious, selfish parents. and really they just need help from the rest of us. we could all use practical help and acceptance, and a better world where we feel safe.

when you are dealing with an upset toddler outside your microcosm of home, with the added dynamic of the child impressing dh, it can be amazingly easy to not look over at your baby for ten seconds. the simplest solution is that dh should have walked over to the car, if we had to rehearse that again. there should certainly be a discussion with dh with hopes to put you on a similar vibe for support. however, i completely understand why that would not have happenned, regardless of what kind of parent dh is. i have a great dh and he is a great dad and silly stuff happens all the time and we learn from it.

child spacing and interpersonal dynamics should be seriously taken into account. certainly i have very little idea what is going on around at the store when i have my three littles. by simply examining ingredients of an item, any of my kids are fast enough to do something dangerous or offensive or run off, other patrons have 2 seconds to say anything to them. there is a everchanging balance of vigilance depending on my energy to keep me a sane, happy mamma. i lose the balance often and work to summon the energy to get it back.

the world we live in has a myriad of interpretations of what is good. this makes it a challenging place to find your way as a parent, as wonderful as the idea of freedom and control can be. it can make me feel isolated in my deep south environment and i hope you can overcome that feeling from time to time as well. everyday we are mammas we learn about being one.

i hope you are healing and forgiving, to all players in situation and this forum, and especially yourself. forgiving does not mean you feel others were right, it is about letting the hurt go. the pain is what lesson you make it, the fear is the reaction in our bodies to alert us. it sucks to be in the situation at the time. then it can heal properly and slowly disappear, when you let it go, when you use the information towards future intentions to give you power.

simply, zanzansmommy, you did fine. time will help heal as well.

now y'all know why i hardly leave my tribe, blah blah blah! forgive me as well for being longwinded and preachy. it is in my selfish interest to do so to feel better about this thread and take the weight off.

partymoo - over here, it is brady bunch all the time.
here's my 2005 slideshow so i feel less a stranger http://www.vimeo.com/clip:29733


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## Periwinkle (Feb 27, 2003)

To the OP, I am sorry you went through this. It sounds like you learned a hard lesson and I KNOW you will never do anything like this again. We ALL make mistakes and most of the time our mistakes are not thrown in our faces -- in fact, many times we get by scott free without even being aware of what a perilous situation we or one of our children was just in.

I would talk a lot about this with dh to process it even more, and then have a serious conversation where you both talk about how important it is that you not distract each other in the hubbub of tending to older kids or when out and about, etc. It sounds like it was one of those situations we've all been in where you turn around and deal with the sqeaky wheel so to speak (not trying to compare your toddler with a wheel lol) thinking you'll get right back to the baby or the other child, and in your case something went very wrong.

We have to all remember, when we are not in the safety of our homes, how to maintain awareness and connection with our other children when tending to the immediate needs of another, for example, when one falls down or runs off at the playground, how not to lose focus on the other kids too. To be honest, I have found this to be something I have learned since becoming a mother of 3 young children and I have gotten better at it over time - it's a skill I've had to develop. I can remember one time how I was comforting dd who was wailing because she fell off her tricycle and I looked up and didn't know where ds was. It was a moment before I laid eyes on him again on a different jungle gym that he had been on when it happened... but in just that short minute I had "lost contact" with him. So I know how it happens. But now you know the hard way how critical it is not to lose touch with one or more of your kids while in a frenetic or emergency situation with someone else.


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

Good points, Periwinkle. I know babies and kids in hot cars is a BIG deal and seemingly pardons this woman of wrongdoing. But something about her meeting the OP with such hostility weakens her credibility/good intentions in my mind. If I had decided to do that, you can bet I would have been explaining myself a little better for removing her child, not attacking her without any knowsledge of the situation (unless the kid was visibly injured). Perhaps if people coming down on moms weren't also such a big issue, I'd be more inclined to think that she was in the right in doing what she did.


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## Joannarachel (Dec 10, 2005)

I got the impression that the OP KNOWS she made a mistake....that's why I certainly don't judge the OP. She's learned her lesson...she'll do better next time. It's all you can do as a parent...right? Learn from our mistakes and move on...

I think some of my stronger verbiage was for those responders who DIDN'T see that she made an error and even suggested the other woman was in the wrong...even suggested she be ARRESTED....which, besides being laughable, shows they have a very limited concept of how the law works in terms of child endangerment.








to the OP


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## Wugmama (Feb 10, 2005)

It is 82.6 degrees in my city right now according to weatherunderground.com. My mom, who takes care of my 4.5 yr old and 5 month old, just called me to tell me they are at the park. My baby is sleeping in my mom's van with the windows rolled down. My 16 yr old sister is sitting in the van with him reading a book. I'm not making this up. Very much like the situation the OP had originally, before she got out of the car for 2 minutes and 51 seconds.

Neither my baby nor my sister is in danger of baking to death in the van. Neither the OP nor her baby was in danger of baking to death in their car. The fact that the OP got out of her car for less than 3 minutes did not make her baby any more likely to bake to death in the shade in the car in 80 degree weather with all but one window down.

The woman who took the baby out of the car could not possibly have done that without seeing that all of the other windows, except the one holding up a blanket to shade the baby, were all down. She must have looked THROUGH one of the other windows to even see the baby, since the one window which was up was covered by a blanket.

Everyone is totally over reacting here, especially the attention-seeker who took someone else's baby out of the car without even a shout out to see if the parents were right there among the folks eating. There is a HUGE difference between a closed up car and one with open windows.








s to the OP. I'm sorry you were terrorized.

~Tracy

P.S. Does anyone want to know my city so they can call the police?


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

I honestly don't believe a person could go to a car, look in and see the baby, open the door, get the baby out, close the door, walk into a place of business, alert security, security find the car in question in the 2 minutes and 51 seconds you are speaking of. I truly believe this mama has learned from her mistake, but I also believe this baby was left unattended for longer than the OP wants us to believe. Sorry, it is just too easy to become distracted by another child wanting attention as well as the cell phone call that the OP received.


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## SaphiraKay (Jun 26, 2004)

Somewhere on the net there is another message board with a post showing the other side of this
MAybe it goes something like this:

Girls, you won't believe the nerve of some people
Today I went to our favorite fast food place with the kids. As we walked toward the front door, I spotted a baby buckled in his car seat inside a car ALONE. The windows were down but there was no one in sight. I looked around for a few seconds, I looked toward the playland and there were several families there. One seemed to be a mom, dad, and a little girl. The mom was on her cell phone yakking away, she never looked my way. The dad was busy with the little twerpy girl, she was fussing about not wanting to eat. He never looked my way. Neither did any of the other families. I thought the parents must have been inside the resturant. I started to call security, but I didn't want to leave that baby alone. He had been abandoned by enough people. I made a snap decision, unbuckled him and took him in the resturant, thinking that his so-called parents might notice him. I went inside, no one acted interested. I spoke with security, they checked him over. I could see the car from the window where I was standing, no one walked over there. Finally, the security guard walked outside, planning to get the liscense plate # so he could run the plates. He finally asked one family if this was there car. The mom went nuts, you would think she would be thankful that her child was not killed. I think she was more mad that she was "caught" or that I had invaded her space and touched her child. If that baby was so precious to her, you'd think she have taken him with her.

Somewhere out there, this post exists.

To the OP, there is no way in heck it had only been 2 min and 51 seconds.
Amanda


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## tiffer23 (Nov 7, 2005)

Haven't read previous posts...

A baby here just died from being left in a car. So if I saw a baby in a car, yes, my first instinct would be to grab the baby out and call 911. I wouldn't leave it to chance that the baby might be okay if I left him/her in the car while I waited outside. BUT, I would stay by the car if I could. In this situation, going in to call 911 seems alright too. Maybe she thought the baby was overheated and taking him into air conditioning would help him.

*hugs* to you mama! I'm glad your little one was okay. I'd definitely have been terrified if someone took my baby without my knowing as well!


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SaphiraKay*
Somewhere on the net there is another message board with a post showing the other side of this
MAybe it goes something like this:

Girls, you won't believe the nerve of some people
Today I went to our favorite fast food place with the kids. As we walked toward the front door, I spotted a baby buckled in his car seat inside a car ALONE. The windows were down but there was no one in sight. I looked around for a few seconds, I looked toward the playland and there were several families there. One seemed to be a mom, dad, and a little girl. The mom was on her cell phone yakking away, she never looked my way. The dad was busy with the little twerpy girl, she was fussing about not wanting to eat. He never looked my way. Neither did any of the other families. I thought the parents must have been inside the resturant. I started to call security, but I didn't want to leave that baby alone. He had been abandoned by enough people. I made a snap decision, unbuckled him and took him in the resturant, thinking that his so-called parents might notice him. I went inside, no one acted interested. I spoke with security, they checked him over. I could see the car from the window where I was standing, no one walked over there. Finally, the security guard walked outside, planning to get the liscense plate # so he could run the plates. He finally asked one family if this was there car. The mom went nuts, you would think she would be thankful that her child was not killed. I think she was more mad that she was "caught" or that I had invaded her space and touched her child. If that baby was so precious to her, you'd think she have taken him with her.

Somewhere out there, this post exists.

To the OP, there is no way in heck it had only been 2 min and 51 seconds.
Amanda

Yep, yep and yep.

If someone is reaching into you car and taking your baby and you don't notice at all, you are obviously not paying attention at all.

It would never occur to me that the people sitting there would be the parents. I would assume that if there were there they would have noticed me open the car and take the baby out. Thus brining the baby inside and seeking a security gaurd's help was clearly the best option.

I am not going to announce to a group of strangers that there is a baby who is unattended (and a baby whose parents don't notice him being lifted out of a car is unattended). I would seek the aid of a police officer or security guard.


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## wende (Oct 4, 2003)

You know, I keep thinking about this thread and the one thought that keeps coming to mind is "what if it was the other woman who was an MDC member writing the OP? How would everyone be reacting then?" I bet that most of the people would be saying "good for you, OP, you did the right thing. I can't believe someone would just leave their baby in the car like that..."

Maybe the baby was only alone in the car for 3 minutes...maybe. Maybe he wasn't in danger of overheating. How on earth was the woman who took the baby out to know that? Maybe her biggest concern wasn't about the baby overheating. Maybe her concern was that the baby would end up being abducted by someone. Logic tells me that she waited a minute before removing the baby from the car hoping that someone would come right back and when nobody did she did what she thought was best.

I'm sure the OP knows that she messed up. I'm sure there is more to the story than a 2min, 51sec time span. I feel sympathy for the OP but I am not about to sit around and pretend that she did nothing wrong.

And Wugmama, you're just being silly. There is someone IN THE CAR with your child. Your child is not being left alone in the car. THAT is the difference. If the story went "I was sitting in the car with my child and someone opened the car up and attempted to remove him" that would be one thing. That's not what she's saying. She left the child in the car ALONE long enough for someone to notice that he was in there alone and remove him from the car and then made it all the way into a building all without the family noticing!!! I cannot imagine for one second that someone would be able to walk right by me with my child in their arms and me not notice. I can't imagine being feet away from my unlocked car with my baby inside and not have my eyes on it the entire time. On the phone or not. I don't need to take my eyes off the car in order to talk on the phone. Also, I have a child who's favorite phrase is "NO, Mommy do it!" and sometimes the answer to him is, and has to be, "sorry, Mommy can't do it right now. Someone else is going to have to help you" and if that's not satisfactory to him, well, sometimes there's just nothing we can do about that. I would rather him not eat at that moment than to leave my other children in danger.


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

Mama I'm so sorry this happened! I know that sick feeling of panic and I'm so sorry this happened and so glad the baby's okay. THanks for sharing your story as a lesson to all of us.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Slabobbin*
I am SHOCKED at the number of people who have already responded that they would actually remove someone else's baby from a vehicle and walk off with them! My word.

I live in Phoenix area and if I saw a baby in the car as described and didn't see any parents around I would be taking the baby out, too. And then probably if I didn't have my cell on me I would have to carry the baby to the front of the store and find security. If I had my cell I would have called 911. There are many kids/babies who die in our area from this, and even 5 minutes can cost a baby his life.

I locked my own child in the car one day at CostCo. As soon as I shut my door (new car, automatic locks) I knew I had done it. She was 2.5 at the time and could not get out of her seat to unlock the door because I had just bought a new seat to prevent that after she used to try escaping. I caught a woman with a cell phone close by and asked her to call 911. Within minutes I had a huge firetruck and an ambulance in the parking lot and they were able to get her out. They sent the ambulance away. I was soooo embarrassed but also very glad that so many people cared.

ETA: I would never leave my child in a car unattended. A couple of years ago in our area, a mom was pumping gas for her truck and someone opened the door on the other side of the car, jumped in, and drove off with the truck! She had a 3 year old and weeks-old baby in the back! Luckily they were recovered a short time later but that story makes me lock all my doors at the pump now.


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Here is the quote from the OP. But I have edited it. Think how many hugs and how few other comments she would have gotten if she had merely substituted the words which I have put in red ( her real words), with those in blue (better choices)!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ZanZansMommy*
It's taken me a few days to even be able to write this. I am still just sick, sick, sick over it. But I felt that by sharing this, perhaps someone else would think twice & not end up in the same situation.

On Sat, DH, DD, DS & I were on our way to go shopping. & of course he fell asleep 10 min before we got to the store. So we decided to have lunch 1st & then we'd shop. It was a very warm day--around 80* with a touch of humidity. Since DS was asleep, DD & DH went inside the restaurant & got food, while I stayed in the car with DS. All the windows were rolled down, except for his. I ended up lodging a blanket in his window to keep the direct sunlight off of him. I sat in the car with him for awhile & I was warm but not uncomfortable. I chatted with my mom, a friend & I was about to call my sister when DH & DD came out with the food & sat at the outdoor seating area. This seating area was about 6 ft from the car several feet from my car, maybe 6-10 I had a great view of DH & DD. DH was about to bring me my food but I motioned for him to stay w/DD & get her to eat 1st.

So DH & DD start eating & DD gets a tad bit fussy with DH. I could hear her saying "No I want Mommy to help me". DH looked over at me &







. So I knew she was getting into one of her moods & was going to struggle with him.

Here is where I wish I could rewind & start all over. I made a move to get out of the car. I hesitated slightly b/c DS was in the car but I convinced myself "ahh what's the big deal. I'm going to be right here". SO I got out & walked over to the table with DD & DH & helped her eat a bite. I turned around to check the car...No problems. I helped her again & looked at the car...no problem. DH said something to me, I sat down, picked up my lunch & took a bite & helped DD simultaneously. Just then my phone rings---it was my sister. I pick it up & say " hey how's it going"--She starts talking And I guess I lost track of time[& all of a sudden I notice a security guard by my car. I got up immediately & walked to my car. I asked him if there was a problem. He asks, "is this your car?" I say "Yes". Then a woman next to him says "A woman just took your baby out of the car."---This is where I get







: uke & start screaming "WHERE WHERE" & she says inside the restaurant---I make a mad dash inside the restaurant & see this woman holding my son. I run up to her & grab him & she tries to move away. I yanked him from her arms & she starts screaming obscenities at me. I can't even remember what she said. All I could think was OMG I have my son in my arms--Thank You Thank You. This woman wouldn't let up she kept talking about how he was sweating & he was soaking wet---he was warm but he was NOT soaking wet. There was no reasoning with her & frankly I felt no need to explain anything to her. I did understand how mad she was at me for doing something so stupid but [ I just wanted to get back to DH & DD.

I am still just uke to my stomach over this. I never in a million yrs would have ever thought someone would just take my baby out of my car.should I have done anything so so stupidI was so Lucky that the person who took my son was such a concerned parent & not some deranged baby snatcher. From her POV she probably thought he was in there for god knows how long. Of course she didn't see any of the open windows or even say anything to all the patrons eating outside. How easy it is for someone to judge you for just a few moments in your life.She was right to do what she did. I just feel horrible about the whole thing and hope none of you make the same terrible mistake

I went back & checked my cell phone & from the time I hung up with my friend to when my sister called was 2 min & 51 secs. After that of course I completely lost track of time. I guess several more minutes must have passed and I feel like and idiot for not realizing how long I had gone without looking at my car and paying attention to my son[/U] My life could have changed for the worse in less than 3 min :[what felt like a flash

So I hope that by sharing this it will prevent any other Mamas from having to go thru this. You just don't know how quickly your life can change. I am wracked with guilt







over this.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

i know y'all mean well, but on a certain level the previous post could be construed to be critical of weakness and of authenticity. can we agree to call this quits?


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Wugmama*
The woman who took the baby out of the car could not possibly have done that without seeing that all of the other windows, except the one holding up a blanket to shade the baby, were all down. She must have looked THROUGH one of the other windows to even see the baby, since the one window which was up was covered by a blanket.

Everyone is totally over reacting here, especially the attention-seeker who took someone else's baby out of the car without even a shout out to see if the parents were right there among the folks eating. There is a HUGE difference between a closed up car and one with open windows.









The one with open windows is easier to snatch a baby out of.

Seriously, there are worse things that could have happened to this baby than being overheated. And the last thing I would want a well-meaning stranger to do if they came across my baby in a car by himself (which wouldn't happen because I'm pretty paranoid about that stuff) would be to call around and say, "Hey, who does this baby belong to?" so any crazy person could come up and claim him.

Alerting security was the right thing to do. I can completely understand why she removed the baby rather than leaving him unattended in a car with the windows rolled down so basically anyone could come along and take him, perhaps not having his well-being in mind.

And, really, I'm thrilled that people are looking in car windows at this time of year. Maybe if more people would make it a habit, we wouldn't have to hear of children boiling to death all summer.

To the OP: I, too, am sorry you were traumatized. I can only imagine how horrifying it must have been to hear those words.


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## JSerene (Nov 4, 2004)

Thank you for sharing your story. I have taken the lesson to heart. It's good to be shaken up every once in a while so that we stay on the alert. Things can happen very quickly. I'm sorry those people yelled obscenities at you - that was not okay. Rest easy tonight - your baby is safe in your arms.


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## RedWine (Sep 26, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tea olive*
i know y'all mean well, but on a certain level the previous post could be construed to be critical of weakness and of authenticity. can we agree to call this quits?

ITA.


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tea olive*
i know y'all mean well, but on a certain level the previous post could be construed to be critical of weakness and of authenticity. can we agree to call this quits?


I was critical of the lack of authenticity about the scenario. There is no way the timing involved was what the OP said. My point was if she had been _authentic about that_ there would have been only support for her.

People resent be led astray about what took place. It is hard to provide support when you have to say "hey wait a minute. this simply does not add up".


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## NoMariposa (Apr 14, 2005)

I probably would have called the cops, but only after watching your vehicle for a few mintues. I'm sorry to say this but leaving an infant in a car is stupid even for a few minutes. Someone could have taken the child just to take a child and keep them, not to be helpful or out of concern for the child's safety. How hard is it to grab the infant carseat and carry it over to the table where the family was?


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## veganf (Dec 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NoMariposa*
How hard is it to grab the infant carseat and carry it over to the table where the family was?

Not everyone uses a removable baby bucket style carseat, and even if they do, many babies have outgrown them by 4-6 months old.
I'm not here to judge the OP, but what I usually do in hot weather witha sleeping baby is to either a) leave the car on with the a/c running and stay in the car, or b) open a few doors so there's ample cross-ventilation and sit within view.


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## BellinghamCrunchie (Sep 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maya44*
I was critical of the lack of authenticity about the scenario. There is no way the timing involved was what the OP said. My point was if she had been _authentic about that_ there would have been only support for her.

People resent be led astray about what took place. It is hard to provide support when you have to say "hey wait a minute. this simply does not add up".

So out of fear, shame, and embarrassment her estimate of the actual amount of time she was gone is a little short. So what. Its human nature.

I think she was brave for posting here, and I want to be supportive whether it was 3 minutes or 6. It was a frightening, horrible experience and I'm glad she shared it with us because it really made me think twice about the few occasions I have left DD in the car while I ran in to grab something.


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## RedWine (Sep 26, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maya44*
I was critical of the lack of authenticity about the scenario. There is no way the timing involved was what the OP said. My point was if she had been _authentic about that_ there would have been only support for her.

People resent be led astray about what took place. It is hard to provide support when you have to say "hey wait a minute. this simply does not add up".

Yet perhaps she was 100% accurate.

My youngest toddled over to a swingset and got knocked over by a preschooler who was swinging (he didn't see her, she toddled over behind him). This happened literally 6-8 feet from where I was sitting with my 3 year old. I was negotiating toy-sharing between her and some other kids. My eyes were off dd2 for maybe a minute, tops. There was no one on the swingset when I began the toy-negotiating, and dd2 had been right beside me. So my attention was on dd1, I lost track of dd2 for no more than a minute (probably a lot less), and in that time a) a kid came over and started swinging on the swings, b) dd2 left my side and toddled over to the swingset, and c) swinging kid was swinging hard enough to really knock my little one over.

Things happen really fast in life sometimes.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

A toddling child v the process of removing a baby from a car and alerting security is not even comparable. There is much more involved in removing the baby from the car. Sorry OP...I know you feel guilty and wish you could rewind the clock, but you were extremely lucky the situation turned out the way it did. If I had come across your car, I would have probably asked if the parent was around. I would have definately written down you license plates number and reported the incident to both the police and CPS.


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

I would never call CPS in this situation unless I KNEW - not assumed, not surmised- but _knew_ that it was not too hot, the mother had been gone for more than a few minutes, and was not within eyesight. Leaving a baby alone in a car is wrong, but threatening to call CPS every time someone does something wrong or dangerous is not always the clear-cut best answer.


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## RedWine (Sep 26, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
A toddling child v the process of removing a baby from a car and alerting security is not even comparable. There is much more involved in removing the baby from the car.

I don't agree. I get both my children out of their two carseats and into my house well within a minute.


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## ~member~ (May 23, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *a_work_in_progress*
I find it interesting that not a single person mentioned the dad! The OP was obviously busy. She was caring for the other child, and on the phone at the same time. *What was her DH doing?*
ZanZansMommy, I hope you had a nice talking to with your hubby. You shouldn't have had to tell him to watch the baby while you were busy with the other child. He should've already been keeping an eye out. You did nothing wrong. You weren't the unobservant one. IMO, it was your husband's duty to watch the baby at that particular moment in time, and he failed you and the baby. I'd be more upset with him than the woman who took the baby out of the vehicle. Speak with him about coordinating childcare while out and about. If your attention if focused on one child, he should automatically keep an eye out on the other child.









: Good question. I get so upset when everyone blames the mother, especially when there are TWO parents involved/available.


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## mollyeilis (Mar 6, 2004)

I definitely think the OP sees all the sides of this, and sees all that she would do differently if she could go back in time. If I were her, all that would frustrate me about the replies is the possible assumption by others that she does NOT see it.

But I was wondering what someone finally said...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *a_work_in_progress*
I find it interesting that not a single person mentioned the dad! The OP was obviously busy. She was caring for the other child, and on the phone at the same time. What was her DH doing?

We only have one kiddo so far, but if we have to do some odd juggling of watching DS, we definitely make sure that one is watching him while the other is doing whatever else has to be done. And if we were in a public situation like what was described, even though it annoys DH that I do it, I would have a loudish-voiced conversation with him, letting him (and those around us) know exactly what we would be doing. "OK, I'll come out of the car and you need to watch DS while I go towards you and DD. Then I'll help DD eat while you keep a lookout on the car; oh YES three of the four windows are rolled down, thanks for asking, DH. OK, now I'm moving towards you, so DH please be sure to watch." and so on....

I'm VERY sensitive to people assuming wrong things about me, and routinely conduct exaggerated (not yelling, just *projected*) conversations like that so everyone knows what we're doing, and knows that we're not abandoning anyone.









Plus, that way, there might have been someone else sitting outside there who saw the woman, and would then have KNOWN that she didn't belong, and could have called out a warning while you were helping DD and DH was, well, I'm not sure....

As for a person's perception of rolled down windows? It's AMAZING what a person's personal prejudices can do to their perception of windows. I was once house-dog-cat sitting, and took the dog into town with me. Although I grew up wiht dogs I'd never been the primary caretaker, and decided to stop in to get to-go food at a fave pub of mine. I left the dog in the car. He was a medium size dog and I had all four windows halfway down (I had to press the buttons then let up when they hit halfway, so I know that that was an objective reality). It was in western WA, it was breezy, it was shaded. There was another dog tied up right at the entrance to the pub, in the bright sun, and I made a decision to NOT put the dog there. Went in, was waiting for my food and chatting with someone (not even sitting down). A woman who lived across the street came in RAVING about how LONG she'd been watching the poor dog with the windows "cracked", how he was panting and soooooo hot. She Would.Not.Listen to me, not one little bit. Finally, because she was abusing me verbally (but my food was still being cooked by the bartender), I just got the dog out of the car and tied him up next to the other dog for the remaining, oh, 4 minutes before my food was ready. In the hot sun. Where he DID start to pant from being overheated, and then he and the other dog started getting into it. My food was then ready, and we left.

Halfway down in reality = windows cracked to her...

People see what they want to see.

Oh, and people have slowed WAY down walking next to our parked car before, trying to ascertain if DS was alone, b/c on family errands I tend to run in while DH stays in the car...regardless of my very squished up 300 pound husband IN THE BACK SEAT next to DS...somehow they ALWAYS manage to miss him on the first pass-by, and neither of us is quite sure how that happens. It even happens if DS is awake and Robert is talking or playing with him...people don't see the hulking man right next to him (it's a Golf, it's NOT that big! and the windows are always rolled down some of the way and the windows aren't tinted at all). I think it might be another case of people seeing what they want to see....

Anyway, back to the OP, I know what just a moment can do. One moment my son was fine in a highchair, next moment we were thinking "he needs to get out, he's getting tired", then the next moment he'd lost a tooth against the table b/c we were distracted by the server with our food. A moment, 3 minutes, turning away at just the right time....ugh. So you won't do what you did again, and I won't leave a tired 6 month old in a highchair again...


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## GranoLLLy-girl (Mar 1, 2005)

"i have "heard" that in the netherlands it is safe to park your pram with a sleeping baby while you go inside a shop." posted by tea olive

yes, this is true.


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## Joannarachel (Dec 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GranoLLLy-girl*
"i have "heard" that in the netherlands it is safe to park your pram with a sleeping baby while you go inside a shop." posted by tea olive

yes, this is true.

True...as in it is common?

*fainting dead away*

Well...I would be perceived as an overprotective nitwit in the Netherlands, I guess


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

_Oh, and people have slowed WAY down walking next to our parked car before, trying to ascertain if DS was alone, b/c on family errands I tend to run in while DH stays in the car...regardless of my very squished up 300 pound husband IN THE BACK SEAT next to DS...somehow they ALWAYS manage to miss him on the first pass-by, and neither of us is quite sure how that happens. It even happens if DS is awake and Robert is talking or playing with him...people don't see the hulking man right next to him (it's a Golf, it's NOT that big! and the windows are always rolled down some of the way and the windows aren't tinted at all). I think it might be another case of people seeing what they want to see...._

YES! This is my point. IME, there have been many instances where I've done nothing wrong, and people are practically panting, ready and enraged to reprimand me. (i.e. putting son in carseat without buckling, walking around to other door to do so inside warm car, and people standing, staring at me with hostility, waiting to see if I'll do it..) Which is why, even though the op did something wrong, I hesitate to cast more credibility on the other woman than her.
And yes to the husband also sharing responsibility.
Either way, I'm sorry it happened. Thanks for reminding me that safey is only one reason I don't leave my kids alone. People reporting me is more likely than something happening to ds. And nearly as scary.


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## mollyeilis (Mar 6, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hazelnut*
(i.e. putting son in carseat without buckling, walking around to other door to do so inside warm car, and people standing, staring at me with hostility, waiting to see if I'll do it..)

Yep. Sometimes I'll get in the back seat with DS in arms. I KNOW people are thinking the worst, rather than thinking "she is going to nurse that toddler in the car before leaving, rather than deal with being half-nekkid in front of the whole mall". Or when I get him out while I'm sitting in the backseat, rather than go all the way around the car blah blah blah (usually b/c the parking spaces are so tight or my back hurts...sometimes it's easier to get him out like that), and so I'm getting out of a car with a child in arms rather than in a bucket...


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StephandOwen*
From the sounds of the OP the baby had to have been alone in the car for at least 3 minutes. She walked 6 feet from the car to the eating area, turned to check on the car, helped her dd take a bite, checked the car, help dd take a bite, check the car, her DH said something to her, she sat down, took a bite of her lunch, helped dd take a bite, answered her phone, and then noticed a security guard by her car. The OP says this happened in 2 minutes and 51 seconds.

In the same 2 minutes and 51 seconds some stranger managed to get her baby out of the car, into the store, find a security guard, and the security guard got to the OP's car. I'm sorry, but logic says either there was more time involved than 2 minutes and 51 seconds, the OP didn't check the car every 30 seconds or so when she first got there, or something else.

I feel for this mama, I really do. And it takes a lot of guts to post what happened on here. I hope we can all learn from it.


NO, she was ON THE PHONE for 2 min 51 sec. She never stated taht that's how long she was out of the car. That's how long she was on the phone!!!


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GranoLLLy-girl*
"i have "heard" that in the netherlands it is safe to park your pram with a sleeping baby while you go inside a shop." posted by tea olive

yes, this is true.

My inlaws were so offended when they were on vacation somewhere tropical and a couple left their sleeping baby in the stroller near them while they swam and walked on the beach. Like I told them, it is probably a different culture where they live, and you can't judge everyone by North American standards.


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## ~member~ (May 23, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa*
Like I told them, it is probably a different culture where they live, and you can't judge everyone by North American standards.









: Sorry, but when we are on the Rez or at Powwows, everyone leaves their kids/baby's 'parked', or just let's them run to the park withOUT an adult. It is a totally different culture. I know my kids are safe because it is taught from birth that EVERY adult is responsible for EVERY child, even if they are not parents themselves.
In American society it's 'only look out for yourself and everyone else be damned' attitude. Very disturbing to myself.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Yeah exactly.


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moondiapers*
NO, she was ON THE PHONE for 2 min 51 sec. She never stated taht that's how long she was out of the car. That's how long she was on the phone!!!

Hmmm... are you sure about that? This is what she wrote in the OP.... (I edited and bolded the important parts)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ZanZansMommy*
I sat in the car with him for awhile & I was warm but not uncomfortable. *I chatted with my mom, a friend & I was about to call my sister when DH & DD came out with the food* & sat at the outdoor seating area.....*Just then my phone rings---it was my sister.* I pick it up & say " hey how's it going"--She starts talking & all of a sudden I notice a security guard by my car..... I went back & checked my cell phone & *from the time I hung up with my friend to when my sister called was 2 min & 51 secs.*

It sounds to me like from the time she hung up with her friend (while she was in the car) to the time her sister called (after she had gotten out of the car, helped her dd, and sat down and ate a bite) was 2 minutes and 51 seconds.

Either way, I'm sure the mama learned her lesson.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaInTheBoonies*
In American society it's 'only look out for yourself and everyone else be damned' attitude.

I don't know -- I know what you mean, but the last several posts have been by people who seem to get offended when they perceive that a stranger is looking out for their child. It seems like some people spend an awful lot of time deciding what the people around them are thinking and then getting all defensive about it -- this seems to be a rather common theme around here.

Unfortunately, people *do* make bad parenting decisions all the time, and if someone gives an extra glance to see if a mama is strapping her DC in the carseat or if a baby is unattended in a car, what's the big deal? Wouldn't you be glad if they did that in a case in which something was wrong and they saved a life? It's hard to live as a "village" when what may simply be well-intentioned glances are interpreted as interfering/rude/judgemental/etc.


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean*
I don't know -- I know what you mean, but the last several posts have been by people who seem to get offended when they perceive that a stranger is looking out for their child. It seems like some people spend an awful lot of time deciding what the people around them are thinking and then getting all defensive about it -- this seems to be a rather common theme around here.

Unfortunately, people *do* make bad parenting decisions all the time, and if someone gives an extra glance to see if a mama is strapping her DC in the carseat or if a baby is unattended in a car, what's the big deal? Wouldn't you be glad if they did that in a case in which something was wrong and they saved a life? It's hard to live as a "village" when what may simply be well-intentioned glances are interpreted as interfering/rude/judgemental/etc.

Oh come on. You can downplay this by pretending we're sitting around getting "offended" and "defensive" and spending too much time contemplating "glances" by people. But people judging mothers harshly in society IS a pretty common theme around here, b/c it's a very real issue. I think it's possible to point that out AND acknowledge that this was a bad parenting decision. It is a big deal to me, b/c I work very hard to be a good mother in a sexist society with a social policy that reflects its lack of respect for mothers. I don't need people breathing down my neck to check on me, which is a world of difference from people truly looking out for kids.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaInTheBoonies*
In American society it's 'only look out for yourself and everyone else be damned' attitude. Very disturbing to myself.

That's an extremely offensive generalization.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hazelnut*
Oh come on. You can downplay this by pretending we're sitting around getting "offended" and "defensive" and spending too much time contemplating "glances" by people. But people judging mothers harshly in society IS a pretty common theme around here, b/c it's a very real issue. I think it's possible to point that out AND acknowledge that this was a bad parenting decision. It is a big deal to me, b/c I work very hard to be a good mother in a sexist society with a social policy that reflects its lack of respect for mothers. I don't need people breathing down my neck to check on me, which is a world of difference from people truly looking out for kids.

You know what, you're right and I apologize. My frustration about several different comments in various threads came out in this one post, and that's not fair to the posters in this thread. It seems like lately I've been reading a lot of "I wish people would be more empathetic/helpful" posts along with a lot of "Why can't people mind their own business" posts. I know that those two are naturally going to co-exist; I guess my cynical side just got frustrated and had to say, "Geez, I guess we can't win! Bystanders are lambasted whether they do nothing (insensitive) or get involved (judgemental)."

In any case, my reaction wasn't in proportion to the posts in this particular thread, so I do apologize.


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

okay, thanks. I do want people to interfere if the situation requires it. And actually, I kind of think Mama in the Boonies has a point. I just think that the "village" doesn't really show up at all, unless it's to tell women they don't know what they're doing. That's a bit off-topic, but I thought it applies here, beause the op's creditibility was challenged, and without absolute knowledge about the temp/time, the woman who took the child also makes me wonder.


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## ~member~ (May 23, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hazelnut*
Oh come on. You can downplay this by pretending we're sitting around getting "offended" and "defensive" and spending too much time contemplating "glances" by people. But people judging mothers harshly in society IS a pretty common theme around here, b/c it's a very real issue. I think it's possible to point that out AND acknowledge that this was a bad parenting decision. It is a big deal to me, b/c I work very hard to be a good mother in a sexist society with a social policy that reflects its lack of respect for mothers. I don't need people breathing down my neck to check on me, *which is a world of difference from people truly looking out for kids*.


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## mollyeilis (Mar 6, 2004)

(that word doesn't look right at all....)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hazelnut*
I just think that the "village" doesn't really show up at all, unless it's to tell women they don't know what they're doing.

True.

Since I was one of the posters before the post about being defensive came up, I figure my post fell into that perceived category.

What I'm annoyed at is that these people are INSTANTLY thinking that something weird is happening. Their facial expressions are ABSOLUTELY suspicious. They do not seem to be giving the benefit of the doubt at all. There is no need for someone to be prowling around, hand at forehead to peer at a carseat, when all you have to do is glance towards the back window and you'll see my husband's big ol' head next to the seat.

I spend very little time assigning things to other people, I just think about it at the time and then in posts like this. Not much effort at all.









Now today I could have USED a village, but instead I got two 4/5 year old girls calling my 2 year old "bratty", because he picked up (and handed back, I must add) two balls they dropped down the stairs at the kid's museum. Guess he wasn't supposed to pick 'em up for them, even though they were at his feet?

tangent over.


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## Rigama (Oct 18, 2005)

Over the course of the last several days I have read all 127 posts in this thread. As I read the op I was in tears and my stomach was lurching. I mean HOW AWFUL. I just couldn't even imagine how I'd react if this happened to me. But I couldn't post. Something just doesn't sit right with me and I didn't want to be negative towards a mama who was brave in sharing her story. I am typically of the mindset of "If ya don't have something nice to say























"

But I just can't put it to rest in my head. I go over this senario throughout the day and I'm just baffled. She says she was 6-10 feet from the car. Think about that. If your 6 foot tall husband laid down on the floor and you sat at his feet, and he raised his hands above his head *HE'D BE ABLE TO TOUCH THE CAR.* Pull out a tape measure and scroll out 10 feet. Look at it. And now ask yourself, how can 3 people (mom dad and daughter...no, I'm not blaming daughter) NOT SEE someone walk around the car, stand there, open the door, take baby out, stand there again, shut the door and then walk away? I mean, how is that possible that all this could conspire without someone of the 3 saying something. I know that if ds4 saw someone at our car, he'd sure as heck speak up. I just don't get it.

I'm not saying this didn't happen, and I'm not saying op is a terrible mother. But I am saying that her story just doesn't hold water. I think that perhaps out of stress and mis-memory or in order to seem more sympathetic, (I truly hope this isn't the case) the details have been changed. I just think that there is more to this story that meets the eye. And while I want to be supportive of her, I'm also wondering what really happened.


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## Nora'sMama (Apr 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rigama*
Over the course of the last several days I have read all 127 posts in this thread. As I read the op I was in tears and my stomach was lurching. I mean HOW AWFUL. I just couldn't even imagine how I'd react if this happened to me. But I couldn't post. Something just doesn't sit right with me and I didn't want to be negative towards a mama who was brave in sharing her story. I am typically of the mindset of "If ya don't have something nice to say





















"

But I just can't put it to rest in my head. I go over this senario throughout the day and I'm just baffled. She says she was 6-10 feet from the car. Think about that. If your 6 foot tall husband laid down on the floor and you sat at his feet, and he raised his hands above his head *HE'D BE ABLE TO TOUCH THE CAR.* Pull out a tape measure and scroll out 10 feet. Look at it. And now ask yourself, how can 3 people (mom dad and daughter...no, I'm not blaming daughter) NOT SEE someone walk around the car, stand there, open the door, take baby out, stand there again, shut the door and then walk away? I mean, how is that possible that all this could conspire without someone of the 3 saying something. I know that if ds4 saw someone at our car, he'd sure as heck speak up. I just don't get it.

I'm not saying this didn't happen, and I'm not saying op is a terrible mother. But I am saying that her story just doesn't hold water. I think that perhaps out of stress and mis-memory or in order to seem more sympathetic, (I truly hope this isn't the case) the details have been changed. I just think that there is more to this story that meets the eye. And while I want to be supportive of her, but I also am wondering what really happened.

I had the exact same reaction upon reading the OP. People's memories are extremely fallible, especially in emotionally charged situations. I think it's likely that the OP was somewhat farther away from the car than she (now) remembers, and probably was somewhat *more* involved in whatever she was doing - she was probably *not* looking back at the car as often as she thinks. Otherwise, I don't see how the scenario is possible.

It's a real cautionary tale, at any rate.


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## Periwinkle (Feb 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaInTheBoonies*
I know my kids are safe because it is taught from birth that EVERY adult is responsible for EVERY child, even if they are not parents themselves.

This made me soooo sad to read. Our society is so f-ed up. What a great way to be, it's such a pity mainstream America isn't more like this.


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## SaphiraKay (Jun 26, 2004)

maybe if her 6 ft tall dh HAD laid in the road w/ his arms outstreached, one of them might have noticed someone getting their kid out and taking him inside.
Or maybe they would have been oblivious to that as well
Amanda


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rigama*
Over the course of the last several days I have read all 127 posts in this thread. As I read the op I was in tears and my stomach was lurching. I mean HOW AWFUL. I just couldn't even imagine how I'd react if this happened to me. But I couldn't post. Something just doesn't sit right with me and I didn't want to be negative towards a mama who was brave in sharing her story. I am typically of the mindset of "If ya don't have something nice to say





















"

But I just can't put it to rest in my head. I go over this senario throughout the day and I'm just baffled. She says she was 6-10 feet from the car. Think about that. If your 6 foot tall husband laid down on the floor and you sat at his feet, and he raised his hands above his head *HE'D BE ABLE TO TOUCH THE CAR.* Pull out a tape measure and scroll out 10 feet. Look at it. And now ask yourself, how can 3 people (mom dad and daughter...no, I'm not blaming daughter) NOT SEE someone walk around the car, stand there, open the door, take baby out, stand there again, shut the door and then walk away? I mean, how is that possible that all this could conspire without someone of the 3 saying something. I know that if ds4 saw someone at our car, he'd sure as heck speak up. I just don't get it.

I'm not saying this didn't happen, and I'm not saying op is a terrible mother. But I am saying that her story just doesn't hold water. I think that perhaps out of stress and mis-memory or in order to seem more sympathetic, (I truly hope this isn't the case) the details have been changed. I just think that there is more to this story that meets the eye. And while I want to be supportive of her, I'm also wondering what really happened.

Actually she said "about 6 feet" obviously that was off base. She just did not think about how close that would be.

Obviously things did not transpire in the same way and time the OP says. She was probably much further away (about 2-3 times as far) and that phone call from her sister must have been where things went wrong. Rather than a few seconds, as she portrays it, it was obvioulys quite a few minutes in which she was paying absolutely no attention to her baby in that car.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maya44*
Obviously things did not transpire in the same way and time the OP says. She was probably much further away (about 2-3 times as far) and that phone call from her sister must have been where things went wrong. Rather than a few seconds, as she portrays it, it was obvioulys quite a few minutes in which she was paying absolutely no attention to her baby in that car.

...and neither was her husband, which is the part that _really_ sends me around the bend. She's on the freaking phone, and he can't even look? Why is it her job? I more than understand how easy it is to get wrapped up in the needs of one of the kids, to the expense of the other child, for a few minutes. I understand how easy it is to get absorbed in a phone call. But, why on earth was the _other parent_ not paying any attention??


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## RedWine (Sep 26, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
...and neither was her husband, which is the part that _really_ sends me around the bend. She's on the freaking phone, and he can't even look? Why is it her job? I more than understand how easy it is to get wrapped up in the needs of one of the kids, to the expense of the other child, for a few minutes. I understand how easy it is to get absorbed in a phone call. But, why on earth was the _other parent_ not paying any attention??

Yes, this is a good point that has not been brought up often enough.


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## Periwinkle (Feb 27, 2003)

Like I said earlier the OP and her dh need to sit down and talk about how to have each other's backs during times like this (and always, but especially during times like this) - how to ensure that they both don't assume the other one is paying attention when neither of them actually is. Experts call this "diffusion of responsibility" and it's actually a real threat to your kids when out and about or doing something beyond your normal routine.


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## a_work_in_progress (May 17, 2006)

I must say, sometimes things can happen in the blink of an eye. Yeah, there were some roadblocks in the way for the woman who took the baby, like opening the door without being seen, and unstrapping the child. It really depends on the individual and the seat. I've been known to unlatch a carseat in seconds, to the amazement of my ex husband and friends.

Just because a person is RIGHT THERE doesn't mean the child is safe.

Yes, the woman had the child's best interest in heart. She was a bit overzealous, true that, but she wasn't out to do the child harm.

There are people out there who intend on doing children harm.

Twenty seconds. I turned around for 20 seconds. In the time it took for my friend to call my name, and say "I have some things I want to drop off at your house. Will you be home this afternoon?" and me to respond "I should be," and turn back around, my child was GONE. Go ahead. Speak those sentences out loud. THAT'S HOW LONG IT TOOK FOR MY CHILD TO BE ABDUCTED. There were a lot of people present, and they all knew the man and myself. Nobody, except another child, noticed when my child was dragged off. Thankfully we found my daughter untouched within a couple minutes, with the man trying to hide because he knew he was busted. He ended up serving two years in jail.

I'm not going to assume others are watching my children. I'm not going to rely on the village to raise MY children, because inevitably there's a village idiot (aka predator).


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## Casual Storm (Apr 9, 2003)

I agree about the dh. I feel like my dh takes me as the "default" parent too much for granted. If I get distracted when we are both present with ds, I don't think for a second dh will intuitively take over -I always have to make it a point to ask for his help, and even then he seems too easily distracted on his watch, IMO. It is frustrating.


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## RedWine (Sep 26, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *a_work_in_progress*
Twenty seconds. I turned around for 20 seconds. In the time it took for my friend to call my name, and say "I have some things I want to drop off at your house. Will you be home this afternoon?" and me to respond "I should be," and turn back around, my child was GONE. Go ahead. Speak those sentences out loud. THAT'S HOW LONG IT TOOK FOR MY CHILD TO BE ABDUCTED. There were a lot of people present, and they all knew the man and myself. Nobody, except another child, noticed when my child was dragged off. Thankfully we found my daughter untouched within a couple minutes, with the man trying to hide because he knew he was busted. He ended up serving two years in jail.

I'm not going to assume others are watching my children. I'm not going to rely on the village to raise MY children, because inevitably there's a village idiot (aka predator).

Oh my goodness, what a horrible story! I am so glad your daughter was okay! How awful that experience must have been for both of you!


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

Wow. I'm so glad she's OK too. How terrible. People call me paranoid (about safety and about people watching me and judging), but it's stories like that that make me so, even though I think these things are unlikely. The unlikely event is just too horrible to contemplate.


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## aisraeltax (Jul 2, 2005)

i feel badly for the OP, who i hope is still reading, although i understand why she wouldnt be posting anymore.

several weeks ago, i had an accident with my baby. he is now almost 6 months old. nothing major and he was fine but i was shaken. my first thought (after knowing my baby was OK) was to post to mdc for support b/c i was all alone. but then i hesitated....b/c well...i have seen too many judgments on MDC lately and was really scared that i didn't get the support i needed but instead would get judged for walking with my baby wrong or something else that i couldn't even think.

do you really think this mama needs to be told what she did was wrong? even if the baby was in no danger, this mama has learned her lesson.


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## damyen's mommy (May 5, 2005)

:


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## mama_at_home (Apr 27, 2004)

I am so sorry, mama! What a scary thing to happen, but at least now you know better. If I saw a baby alone in a car I would start looking around and shouting "is this your baby?" to everyone around. Then I would stand by the car and wait, but I would only remove the baby as a last resort.


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## Amylcd (Jun 16, 2005)

Quote:

I just cannot get over the fact that your eyes were off the car long enough for someone to look in, see your child, open the door, unbuckle your baby, and then walk into the restaurant without you even noticing. I know that you were only 6 feet from your car but if you aren't paying attention it doesn't matter if you're 2 feet away or 200
ITA.

6 feet is about how far I am away from my child sleeping in bed... I can hear her sigh and breathe. Maybe, if you have your back to the car, I can understand how you couldn't see... but how could you not hear the car door open and close?


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## Lisa85 (May 22, 2006)

I have a hard time believing anyone who says they would leave a child they believed was "soaking wet", "really hot",and "abandoned" in a car while they patiently wait for an ambulance/policeman. Have you ever had to wait on an ambulance, or watched Cops and see how long it takes them to get there? At best it will be 4-5 minutes. How awful would you feel waiting for an ambulance, leaving the child in the car, only to find out it later died of heatstroke? The time I waited for an ambulance with a girl having an asthma attack it took 10 minutes, and there was another ambulance 100 yards away







A friend of mine while growing up had a barn that caught fire. She lived in the middle of nowhere and when they called hte fire department, they said they didn't need directions. It takes 15min. to get there from the fire station (w/out speeding and sirens). It took them 45 min.


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## Joannarachel (Dec 10, 2005)

Lisa, your area probably has a volunteer fire department. They have to tone out for firefighters, who need to leave what they are doing, drive to the station, pick up the apparatus, and then respond to the call.

Oh, the ambulance you saw didn't necessarily belong to the service that does 911 for your community.


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## tboroson (Nov 19, 2002)

I am so tired, and just sat here and read all 8 pages of this thread... so please forgive me if I don't express all my ideas very clearly.

OP, I'm so sorry this happened to you









To those of you who don't believe it could have happened, I can imagine how it would happen. I think you're all intentionally refusing to imagine the actual scene. Here's how I read it and imagine it: The baby's seat is in the passenger's side rear seat. The car is parked right at the curb, and the family is sitting at the nearest table. Since the blanket is in the baby's window, direct view of the baby and the back seat of the car is obscured from their perspective. People are passing by the other side of the car as they come and go from the restaurant, so someone passing in that space isn't unusual and doesn't command their attention. The woman passes on that opposite side of the car, sees the baby, and slips in through the rear car door on the opposite side. Remember, the back seat is obscured by the blanket. Unbuckles baby, stands back up and shuts the door, and walks away. The two noticeable actions - entering the car and exiting the car - each happen within two seconds and are very easy to miss.

2 min 51 seconds? First, that was the amount of time between calls, she does say that she spoke to her sister briefly as well. So, we can estimate it was at least three minutes. I imagine this all happened very close to the restaurant door, as most outdoor restaurant seating is located in close proximity to the restaurant. So, yes, I could imagine this happened within three minutes, give or take a few seconds. Heck, the woman could have entered the car as the OP was walking away from the car in the first place.

Personally, when I've similarly left my daughters sleeping in a car I actually opened the car door so I had full view of them, not just a glimpse through the car window (or worse, an obscured view with a blanket in the way). It's really easy to chronicle the OP's mistakes. But, you know what? I've made a hell of a lot of mistakes as a parent, and I am willing to bet that everyone else here has too. We've all just gotten lucky. If the OP was arrogant and refused to admit that her attention had wandered and that she'd done the wrong thing, perhaps I'd judge her more harshly. But, she's not. She is absolutely right - the other woman's attitude was horrendous, her action was extreme and uncalled for, and while the OP wasn't fully innocent, her treatment at the hands of the other woman was uncalled for.


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tboroson*
Since the blanket is in the baby's window, direct view of the baby and the back seat of the car is obscured from their perspective.

BINGO! As I'm sure the OP knows by now, this was a big mistake. She could see the *car*, but she couldn't see the *baby*.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tboroson*
the other woman's attitude was horrendous, her action was extreme and uncalled for, and while the OP wasn't fully innocent, her treatment at the hands of the other woman was uncalled for.

While I don't think the other womans actions (of taking the baby to, what she believe, was safety) were "extreme and uncalled for", I do agree that the treatment she gave the OP was extreme and uncalled for. There was no need for her to treat the OP like that, especially without knowing the full story.


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tboroson*
I am so tired, and just sat here and read all 8 pages of this thread... so please forgive me if I don't express all my ideas very clearly.

OP, I'm so sorry this happened to you









To those of you who don't believe it could have happened, I can imagine how it would happen. I think you're all intentionally refusing to imagine the actual scene. Here's how I read it and imagine it: The baby's seat is in the passenger's side rear seat. The car is parked right at the curb, and the family is sitting at the nearest table. Since the blanket is in the baby's window, direct view of the baby and the back seat of the car is obscured from their perspective. People are passing by the other side of the car as they come and go from the restaurant, so someone passing in that space isn't unusual and doesn't command their attention. The woman passes on that opposite side of the car, sees the baby, and slips in through the rear car door on the opposite side. Remember, the back seat is obscured by the blanket. Unbuckles baby, stands back up and shuts the door, and walks away. The two noticeable actions - entering the car and exiting the car - each happen within two seconds and are very easy to miss.

2 min 51 seconds? First, that was the amount of time between calls, she does say that she spoke to her sister briefly as well. So, we can estimate it was at least three minutes. I imagine this all happened very close to the restaurant door, as most outdoor restaurant seating is located in close proximity to the restaurant. So, yes, I could imagine this happened within three minutes, give or take a few seconds. Heck, the woman could have entered the car as the OP was walking away from the car in the first place.

Personally, when I've similarly left my daughters sleeping in a car I actually opened the car door so I had full view of them, not just a glimpse through the car window (or worse, an obscured view with a blanket in the way). It's really easy to chronicle the OP's mistakes. But, you know what? I've made a hell of a lot of mistakes as a parent, and I am willing to bet that everyone else here has too. We've all just gotten lucky. If the OP was arrogant and refused to admit that her attention had wandered and that she'd done the wrong thing, perhaps I'd judge her more harshly. But, she's not. She is absolutely right - the other woman's attitude was horrendous, her action was extreme and uncalled for, and while the OP wasn't fully innocent, her treatment at the hands of the other woman was uncalled for.

Nope still don't buy it. Don't buy that someone was just waiting there as the mom exited the car. She would have seen her. And in your scenario, the woman would have to get into the car to reach the child. Sit down next to him to unbuckle, which is very hard. Take him out etc....Three minutes, sorry no way!


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## Seie (Jun 9, 2005)

Ok - I am a bit confused here.. I dont know what kind of society it is you have but where I live I think most women have left the kids in the car unattended for a short period of time. Ofcourse it isnt freaking hot here even in summer - and I have never heard of a baby dying in a car here - dogs yes - but never babies. I have left my two children alone in the car (both under 3) several times - when going shopping for 5 minutes - when going inside the bakers for bread, when my daughter has been sleeping to drop of my son at daycare and DH and I have done it when being on the road to sit a gasstation restaurant to eat - from a place where we could stand up and see that our kid/s was not crying or awake. I always lock the doors - because I have heard of thieves stealing cars then finding a baby in the backseat - but I would never worry about someone kidnapping my babies - especially not when the doors are locked. If a woman ever took one of my children out of MY car I would turn her over to the police for attempted kidnapping.
I do not feel the least bit guilty for leaving my kids in the car for shopping for 5 minutes. The car is my property and anyone breaking inthere is also breaking the law.
SO you are NOT a bad mother for leaving your kid in the car even for 5 minutes - but taking away a kid from someone elses car is BAD - especially without asking around first.

But ok - I admit to come from a country where we also leave the babies outside to sleep in the buggy. I have friends who live in houses with several appartment - and they leave their babies down in the yard in the buggy to sleep while they themselfes are in the appartment with the babymonitor on or an open window. And we are not talking a few bad parents here - we are talking this is what EVERYONE does - this is just how we do here. We leave the babies outside in the buggy while we go shopping. They sleep outside even in winter and that is just how it is. We never hear of kidnappings - very rarely it happens that someone attempts to steal a buggy and accidentally forget to notice that there is a child in it.. but what is this hysteria all about?

The problem here is not the mother if you ask me but the lady who steals away a kid that isnt hers. Nomatter her intentions..


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## RedWine (Sep 26, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Inca*
Ok - I am a bit confused here.. I dont know what kind of society it is you have but where I live I think most women have left the kids in the car unattended for a short period of time. Ofcourse it isnt freaking hot here even in summer - and I have never heard of a baby dying in a car here - dogs yes - but never babies. I have left my two children alone in the car (both under 3) several times - when going shopping for 5 minutes - when going inside the bakers for bread, when my daughter has been sleeping to drop of my son at daycare and DH and I have done it when being on the road to sit a gasstation restaurant to eat - from a place where we could stand up and see that our kid/s was not crying or awake. I always lock the doors - because I have heard of thieves stealing cars then finding a baby in the backseat - but I would never worry about someone kidnapping my babies - especially not when the doors are locked. If a woman ever took one of my children out of MY car I would turn her over to the police for attempted kidnapping.
I do not feel the least bit guilty for leaving my kids in the car for shopping for 5 minutes. The car is my property and anyone breaking inthere is also breaking the law.
SO you are NOT a bad mother for leaving your kid in the car even for 5 minutes - but taking away a kid from someone elses car is BAD - especially without asking around first.

But ok - I admit to come from a country where we also leave the babies outside to sleep in the buggy. I have friends who live in houses with several appartment - and they leave their babies down in the yard in the buggy to sleep while they themselfes are in the appartment with the babymonitor on or an open window. And we are not talking a few bad parents here - we are talking this is what EVERYONE does - this is just how we do here. We leave the babies outside in the buggy while we go shopping. They sleep outside even in winter and that is just how it is. We never hear of kidnappings - very rarely it happens that someone attempts to steal a buggy and accidentally forget to notice that there is a child in it.. but what is this hysteria all about?

The problem here is not the mother if you ask me but the lady who steals away a kid that isnt hers. Nomatter her intentions..

Denmark is a verrrrry different culture when it comes to the treatment of babies and kids. Don't you have mega paid maternity leave as well? I am envious of your culture. I wished I lived in a society where one could leave the baby buggy outside without fear.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Inca*
I have left my two children alone in the car (both under 3) several times...

This would be considered illegal in the US and you could be arrested. There have been several cases in my area of children being removed from the home and/or the parents charged with neglect.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Inca*

The problem here is not the mother if you ask me but the lady who steals away a kid that isnt hers. Nomatter her intentions..

ITA.


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## wende (Oct 4, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Inca*
Ok - I am a bit confused here.. I dont know what kind of society it is you have but where I live I think most women have left the kids in the car unattended for a short period of time. Ofcourse it isnt freaking hot here even in summer - and I have never heard of a baby dying in a car here - dogs yes - but never babies. I have left my two children alone in the car (both under 3) several times - when going shopping for 5 minutes - when going inside the bakers for bread, when my daughter has been sleeping to drop of my son at daycare and DH and I have done it when being on the road to sit a gasstation restaurant to eat - from a place where we could stand up and see that our kid/s was not crying or awake. I always lock the doors - because I have heard of thieves stealing cars then finding a baby in the backseat - but I would never worry about someone kidnapping my babies - especially not when the doors are locked. If a woman ever took one of my children out of MY car I would turn her over to the police for attempted kidnapping.
I do not feel the least bit guilty for leaving my kids in the car for shopping for 5 minutes. The car is my property and anyone breaking inthere is also breaking the law.
SO you are NOT a bad mother for leaving your kid in the car even for 5 minutes - but taking away a kid from someone elses car is BAD - especially without asking around first.

But ok - I admit to come from a country where we also leave the babies outside to sleep in the buggy. I have friends who live in houses with several appartment - and they leave their babies down in the yard in the buggy to sleep while they themselfes are in the appartment with the babymonitor on or an open window. And we are not talking a few bad parents here - we are talking this is what EVERYONE does - this is just how we do here. We leave the babies outside in the buggy while we go shopping. They sleep outside even in winter and that is just how it is. We never hear of kidnappings - very rarely it happens that someone attempts to steal a buggy and accidentally forget to notice that there is a child in it.. but what is this hysteria all about?

The problem here is not the mother if you ask me but the lady who steals away a kid that isnt hers. Nomatter her intentions..

Yes, but Denmark is markedly different than the US. We have the Amber Alert for a reason, because babies and children are kidnapped on a regular basis. Kids are snatched from their front yards. Babies here DO die in the heat because they were left alone in cars. Child neglect is a big problem and what the OP did could have easilly been considered neglect. Nobody can say for sure how long the baby was left there and if he was left long enough and the mother was so oblivious that someone was able to grab the baby and WALK BY HER with the baby in her arms w/o the mother or father noticing than she could be charged with neglect if someone wanted to persue it. In Denmark, I may be comfortable enough to leave a sleeping baby in a buggy outside while I was inside eating...maybe. Here, there isn't a chance in Hell that I'd ever even consider it.


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RedWine*
Denmark is a verrrrry different culture


Yes and a very different country. The weather simply is not comparable. A top story on MSNBC yesterday was about children dying while left in hot cars.

A person who takes a child to whom no attention is being paid out of the car and into a cool restaurant and into the hands of a security guard has done NOTHING wrong.

It is Illegal in almost every state to leave a child unattended in a car. A child who is carried out of a car without the parent noticing would absolutely be considered "unattended"


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## Lisa85 (May 22, 2006)

Yes, I 3rd or 4th that Denmark is a completely different culture than the U.S. I grew up in a town started by immigrants from Holland. A teacher of mine was married from an immigrant from holland (he immigrated, not his grandparents or anything like that if that makes sense) and they took a trip back. Her husband insisted it was ok to leave the car unlocked, they saw numerous babies left outside, etc, etc. AFAIK, denmark has a pretty lax gov't. Said husband also recieved numerous speeding tickets because in Holland, you just don't get tickets unless you're driving at an absurd speed. He could hardly believe you get pulled over and ticketed for pretty much anything over 5mph.

I was just in Wal-Mart the other day. There was an infant in a carseat in a cart near the curb who looked to be around 2mo old. I didn't see a *parent* (yes, father's are liable too) around so I walked up to the baby with full intentions on calling the police, until I saw the mother sitting on the curb. She was hidden by the cart so I didn't see her at first. You're damn right I would have picked that baby up if she was crying, or looked to be in danger.

Quote:

Lisa, your area probably has a volunteer fire department. They have to tone out for firefighters, who need to leave what they are doing, drive to the station, pick up the apparatus, and then respond to the call.

Oh, the ambulance you saw didn't necessarily belong to the service that does 911 for your community.
You're probably right that the fire department was volunteer, but the firefighters also admitted they had gotten lost (said friend lives in the boonies) As for the ambulance scenario - it was at an outdoor event I was working for. The ambulance was there specifically for the concert. But that's not really the point anyways. The point was even in an emergency, it can take awhile for emergency personel to get there.


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## Joannarachel (Dec 10, 2005)

I know...I just thought you might like an explanation







:

Inca, I'm sorry, but your experience in Denmark is pretty much irrelevant to the OP's scenario. You could be arrested here for what you described doing in Denmark. And in this country, a woman who rescues a child left in a car is generally lauded as a heroine. She certainly wouldn't be arrested as it is not considered a crime to save a child from a potentially deadly situation.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Inca*
I have never heard of a baby dying in a car here...we never hear of kidnappings... but what is this hysteria all about?

If you never hear of babies dying in cars or being kidnapped where you live, can you explain to me how anything in your post is relavent to this thread?


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Inca*
Ok - I am a bit confused here.. I dont know what kind of society it is you have but where I live I think most women have left the kids in the car unattended for a short period of time. Ofcourse it isnt freaking hot here even in summer - and I have never heard of a baby dying in a car here - dogs yes - but never babies. I have left my two children alone in the car (both under 3) several times - when going shopping for 5 minutes - when going inside the bakers for bread, when my daughter has been sleeping to drop of my son at daycare and DH and I have done it when being on the road to sit a gasstation restaurant to eat - from a place where we could stand up and see that our kid/s was not crying or awake. I always lock the doors - because I have heard of thieves stealing cars then finding a baby in the backseat - but I would never worry about someone kidnapping my babies - especially not when the doors are locked. If a woman ever took one of my children out of MY car I would turn her over to the police for attempted kidnapping.
I do not feel the least bit guilty for leaving my kids in the car for shopping for 5 minutes. The car is my property and anyone breaking inthere is also breaking the law.
SO you are NOT a bad mother for leaving your kid in the car even for 5 minutes - but taking away a kid from someone elses car is BAD - especially without asking around first.

But ok - I admit to come from a country where we also leave the babies outside to sleep in the buggy. I have friends who live in houses with several appartment - and they leave their babies down in the yard in the buggy to sleep while they themselfes are in the appartment with the babymonitor on or an open window. And we are not talking a few bad parents here - we are talking this is what EVERYONE does - this is just how we do here. We leave the babies outside in the buggy while we go shopping. They sleep outside even in winter and that is just how it is. We never hear of kidnappings - very rarely it happens that someone attempts to steal a buggy and accidentally forget to notice that there is a child in it.. but what is this hysteria all about?

The problem here is not the mother if you ask me but the lady who steals away a kid that isnt hers. Nomatter her intentions..

I'm glad that you live in a society like this. I really am. Unfortunately, the US is not like this. Don't believe it's this serious? Read these.

"on a 75-degree day the temperature inside a Chevy Venture can reach higher than 120 degrees in just half an hour"


"temperatures can still rise to deadly elevations with the windows down."

6 year old boy kidnapped during a car theft, adults left for *just a minute* to go inside a gas station

Or how about a 3 year old is kidnapped when his dad put him in the car then went back inside the house to get his infant.

There are many many more news stories of baby/young children being left in cars and dying, suffering brain damage, or being kidnapped. Here, in the States, it is not a safe thing to do.


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## Greensleeves (Aug 4, 2004)

Another link to a site about preventing car-related deaths:
http://www.4rkidssake.org/


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## Dechen (Apr 3, 2004)

Cosleeping kills.
Homebirth is risky and dangerous.
Refusing to vaccinate is neglect.
Breastfeeding preschoolers is abuse.

These beliefs are also a part of American culture.

I think the OP knows she made a mistake. In the U.S., leaving a child unattended in a car is illegal and and considered dangerous. Therefore, a passerby will understandably assume that (a) a baby in a car has been forgotten about or that (b) the parents aren't taking proper care of the child. Most decent parents in the U.S. don't leave their children alone in the car, due to a combination of fear, legal concerns, and social concerns.

Notice I said most. A parent CAN make a reasonable decision to leave a child in the car.

I don't think what the OP did is automatically a bad thing. She felt in touch with the temperature of the car, and she and the rest of the family were nearby. Child abduction, for all the play that it gets in the media, is VERY rare.

I do think that given our culture and laws, it was a bad idea. And if I saw a baby in a car alone, I too would take him or her out and find help. Not from a security guard, because statistically security guards are more likely to have criminal backgrounds than the average person, but I'd probably call the police. I just couldn't take the chance that the baby had been forgotten or was being neglected.

Here on MDC, I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt that the OP was making an informed and conscious decision to do something unpopular.

How many of us never do the same?


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dechen*
A parent CAN make a reasonable decision to leave a child in the car.

And, like with every other decision a parent makes, there are risks involved. The risks of leaving a child alone in a car, for whatever amount of time, include overheating, abduction, kidnapping during a car theft, child choking on a toy/whatever, car fires (I remember at least one news story where the car started on fire at a gas station, trapping a child inside), getting stuck in a seat belt, car getting struck by another car, child accidently "driving" the car if the keys are left, etc. Yes, the chances of any of those happening are very very small. Unless it happens to your child.

Just like the chances of smothering your baby while co-sleeping are small.

There's a chance your child could die of a disease you chose not to vaccinate him/her from.

The chances of a baby dying during childbirth are small, but when it happens to you it's devistating.

These *rare* occaisions have to happen to someone, I'll do everything in my power to keep them from happening to me.

The original poster took a risk, and is lucky nothing worse happened.


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## boingo82 (Feb 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dechen*
Cosleeping kills.
Homebirth is risky and dangerous.
Refusing to vaccinate is neglect.
Breastfeeding preschoolers is abuse.

All of the things you mentioned, could be done more ways than one. There is a difference, for example, between cosleeping with minimal bedding, sober, vs. cosleeping on a feather bed while drunk.

To me, the fact that a woman was able to get into the car and TAKE THE BABY, without any family member noticing, means that the baby was NOT being left in the car safely at all.
I wouldn't advocate leaving your kids in the car, but don't think it's the end of the world if done safely - the keys aren't in, it's not a hot day, the windows are down, and you are right there keeping track of them. However, I don't think the OP or her DH were paying enough attention to the baby at all.


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## Dechen (Apr 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boingo82*
All of the things you mentioned, could be done more ways than one. There is a difference, for example, between cosleeping with minimal bedding, sober, vs. cosleeping on a feather bed while drunk.

To me, the fact that a woman was able to get into the car and TAKE THE BABY, without any family member noticing, means that the baby was NOT being left in the car safely at all.

Except that it would have been safe in Denmark, where no one would have taken the child.

I think I was fairly clear that I think leaving a child in the car, here in the U.S., is a pretty bad idea. What I'm trying to point out is that the condemnation from MDCers is a bit ... ironic. We are a forum that values the ability to make personal choices that buck the mainstream idea of safety.

I coslept with my dd from day one. There are so many people in this country who would hysterically insist it wasn't safe, that I was putting my baby at risk. They believe this, passionately and righteously.

I don't.

Can't a person get in trouble with child services if a child doesn't have his or her own bed? I think I've heard that. My point is that we here at MDC are not immune to cultural conditioning about safety.


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## boingo82 (Feb 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dechen*
Except that it would have been safe in Denmark, where no one would have taken the child.

I think I was fairly clear that I think leaving a child in the car, here in the U.S., is a pretty bad idea. What I'm trying to point out is that the condemnation from MDCers is a bit ... ironic. We are a forum that values the ability to make personal choices that buck the mainstream idea of safety.

I coslept with my dd from day one. There are so many people in this country who would hysterically insist it wasn't safe, that I was putting my baby at risk. They believe this, passionately and righteously.

I don't.

Can't a person get in trouble with child services if a child doesn't have his or her own bed? I think I've heard that. My point is that we here at MDC are not immune to cultural conditioning about safety.

But the OP isn't IN Denmark. She is in the US, where her choice (IMO) was not safe or appropriate.
If nothing happened, I don't think I'd react the same, but the fact that someone DID take her baby (even with the best of intentions), and the OP did not notice, proves that the baby was not safe being left in the car!

Like I said, variations of cosleeping can range from safer, to more dangerous. Same with leaving your kids in the car- the risk is not absolute, it varies on the situation. The situation described in this thread obviously was not safe.


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

As usual I am jumping in very late in the game, so maybe someone else has said this.

To be honest, the only thing that made me gulp in the OP was that someone was able to get the baby out of the car without the OP noticing. But I am not bashing her for his. God knows I have screwed up more than once and I thank my lucky stars my kids are still okay. But that is really what bothers me more than the idea that she left the child in the car under those circumstances.

Quote:

What I'm trying to point out is that the condemnation from MDCers is a bit ... ironic. We are a forum that values the ability to make personal choices that buck the mainstream idea of safety.
I very much agree with this. Go visit some other boards and before long you will find a 7 page long discussion condeming someone for not vaccinating their child, how dangerous it is, detailing the risks she is taking. Honestly, the biggest danger the OP took was driving in the first place. That had more potential for injury and death than the circumstances under which she left the baby alone in the car, and it's something we all choose to do almost every day. If we all can trust one another to make choices to to not vaccinate or have an unassisted birth, choices which 95% of the public would tell us is irresponsible and dangerous, then it is hypocritical to bash an obviously tuned in mom for carefully evaluating a decision and making the choice she did.


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## lexbeach (Mar 6, 2002)

In Massachusetts at least (not sure about other states), it is illegal to leave kids in the car in public places for any amount of time, even if you can see the car from where you are. When I worked as a preschool teacher, and was thus a mandated reporter (required by law to report any possibility of child abuse), one of the things we were told that we had to report was parents leaving their kids in the car while they dropped other kids off at school. We were constantly reminding parents that this was not allowed and that they would be reported if they did it.

A friend of mine, not knowing the law, left his two kids in their car seats in the locked car (it was early spring, no worries of overheating) while he ran into the pharmacy to pick up their prescriptions (the kids were sick), keeping the car in view the whole time. A police man noticed the kids in the car and reported my friend to DSS. My friend and his wife then had to undergo an investigation and will probably not be allowed to adopt any children because of this being on their record (they had been planning to adopt). I am glad my friend didn't have his kids taken away, but I think he was pretty crazy to leave his kids in the car.

I think the OP should feel lucky that she wasn't reported to child protective services, and that her baby is okay and wasn't kidnapped.


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

www.kidsandcars.org is another depressing, informative site, although I think Dechen has a point.


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## mmace (Feb 12, 2002)

I've been reading this thread since it started and didn't really have anything to add, then this morning I read this in my local paper online:

"Temperatures inside a vehicle can rise about 19 degrees in 10 minutes and 43 degrees in an hour." I knew cars could get hot quickly, but I had no idea that they could get that hot that quickly.

Here's the link in case you're interested: http://www.observer-reporter.com/mai...79&TM=31674.76

OP, I'm glad your little one is okay.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

To the OP. I totally understand what you have said, and I'm sickened that half of MDC does not. You are a good mother, and it shouldn't be a huge deal when you leave your baby in the car for a few minutes while you are close by. I can understand how easy it could be to be distracted by your other child just enough for someone to sneak in your car. I don't blame you. You are human.

To all the people who accost this mother. Shame on you. What is the world coming to when mothers are so cruel to each other. This mother was obviously looking for support and understanding, not for being shat apon.


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## Periwinkle (Feb 27, 2003)

(I cannot believe this thread is still going. Every time it pops up in my User CP, I cringe.)


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## DecemberSun (Jul 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *majazama*
To the OP. I totally understand what you have said, and I'm sickened that half of MDC does not. You are a good mother, and it shouldn't be a huge deal when you leave your baby in the car for a few minutes while you are close by. I can understand how easy it could be to be distracted by your other child just enough for someone to sneak in your car. I don't blame you. You are human.

To all the people who accost this mother. Shame on you. What is the world coming to when mothers are so cruel to each other. This mother was obviously looking for support and understanding, not for being shat apon.

I truly don't want to beat a dead horse, but I feel like I had to say something.

I have to agree with Jaz...

Shame on the Mamas who actually accused the OP of lying. You have NO IDEA what exactly happened, and you have no right to fill in the blanks. She said flat out that she knew she should have been watching, and she knows how terrible it would be if her life had changed for the worst in the blink of an eye. She knew she made a mistake. She wanted us all to learn from it- keep her story in the back of our minds whenever we are faced with the decision to leave our child in the car or not. She didn't post here to have you all insult her. Yes, we all need to know the dangers of leaving kids alone in parked cars, but you didn't have to be so rude to this particular mother. There are other more tactful ways to get your points across ("Don't leave kids in cars alone") than to call this mother a LIAR. That was just downright low, and I hope ZanZansMommy doesn't leave MDC because of this thread... I thought we were all supportive, friendly, intelligent mamas who knew the difference between a mother who needed to be bitch-slapped for neglecting her child, and a mama who needed a place to get her feelings off her chest about her embarrassing mistake.

Ok, 'nuff said...


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