# Two year old with eating issues....



## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I have a daycare child who will be three in February. She has come very very far in the six weeks she has been with me.

When I started watching her she still couldn't use a spoon or fork. But, she is catching on quickly.

She learned early on to leave her cup in the kitchen.

BUT, we are still having problems with her sitting through a whole lunch or snack. She will get up, walk off carrying whatever she is eating. She wants to "graze" as her mom calls it.

I have no problems with "grazing"... At home. But it wont work here. Here she needs to eat at meal times and not a bite here and a bite there. At their house, they put food on the counter (Healthy food) and the kids take what they want and come back later if they want it. They don't eat as a family, the kids don't use plates. (I assume the parents use plates)

The biggest problem for her is she isn't getting enough to eat. Because she wont sit at the table to eat. The biggest problem for me, is I never get a break from chasing her down and prying food out of her hands and wiping them before she touches something. Then I toss her back in her spot, and tell her "We sit at the table with food".

I REALLY don't have an available high chair. The babies are using them. I COULD move the 15 month old to the picnik table, and put her in his high chair. But I really hate to do that to her. She IS one of the bigger kids here. I don't want to treat her like a baby, and I know she will hate the high chair.

The set up is one large little Tykes table that seats four. Two high chairs, and the counter if we need it. I thought about putting her at the counter, because it would be harder for her to get down. But, I'm not sure I trust her on a bar stool.

She is out of town for a few days, and when she comes back, I want to start a new plan. I need ideas.

The only thing I haven't done yet is to throw her food away as soon as she gets up. But, I will try that if I can't find a better answer.

Please give me some ideas. I want her to eat. I know she is hungry.


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

Will the parents work with you? Can you ask them to talk to her at home about , "this is how we eat at home but at daycare you sit...like this" Maybe a game at home playing day care every once in while.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hipumpkins* 
Will the parents work with you? Can you ask them to talk to her at home about , "this is how we eat at home but at daycare you sit...like this" Maybe a game at home playing day care every once in while.

I haven't really approached them about that. I have told them that I need the kids to eat at the table, but we are having trouble teaching her to sit there and finish eating. That's when she told me that Mom has never cooked a meal. Ever. and that they just put food out for the family to graze on. Mom serves healthy snacks. Fresh vegies, crackers, cheese, granola. SO, it's not like the food itself is a problem, it's how they eat that causes ME a problem.

So, I am afraid that I will be insulting them as parents because they don't do things the way I do things.


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## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

It sounds like you disapprove of how the family handles food and eating, and that that disapproval will come across when you speak to them. You believe moms should cook, rather than people eating prepared and raw foods, and that people should sit down when they eat.

I'm sure that you have some good reasons for your beliefs and probably some that are cultural. Could you sort those out for yourself and explain the good reasons you believe in? And listen to the good reasons this family has for their approach?

Is there any flexiblity in how you serve meals and snacks at your daycare? I'm amazed that you have so many small people willing to sit for a whole snack or meal!

I grew up in a house where we cooked meals and ate together...big family. No one was allowed up until everyone had eaten. We learned to eat in 5 minutes or less.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chfriend* 
It sounds like you disapprove of how the family handles food and eating, and that that disapproval will come across when you speak to them. You believe moms should cook, rather than people eating prepared and raw foods, and that people should sit down when they eat.

I'm sure that you have some good reasons for your beliefs and probably some that are cultural. Could you sort those out for yourself and explain the good reasons you believe in? And listen to the good reasons this family has for their approach?

Is there any flexiblity in how you serve meals and snacks at your daycare? I'm amazed that you have so many small people willing to sit for a whole snack or meal!

I grew up in a house where we cooked meals and ate together...big family. No one was allowed up until everyone had eaten. We learned to eat in 5 minutes or less.


No, I don't really dissaprove of how THEY do it. Well, I suppose in a way I do. That is probably why I haven't really talked about it with them. I think that if you want your kids to eat in a social setting, they need to learn to sit and eat. At age two, this is not too much to ask. Two year olds are very intellegent, and can sit for a whole meal. But, if Mom were staying home, and this is how they do it. It wouldn't bother me a bit. But in my house, it is my rules.

As far as flexibilty, no. I don't want her or any child to walk around my house with food. I don't want to have to find it, just to clean it up. During each day I have as many as six kids, I would not want six kids to have food wherever they want. It needs to be in the kitchen, at the table. Besides all that, It is a compliance rule. If I were leaving food out at all times of the day, I would not be in compliance. I also would not be able to tell a parent if their child ate enough that day.

I have been doing childcare since 1982. In all those years, I have fed ALL the kids at the same time. They get a spoon or a fork at 12 months, (it's messy) and by 15-18 months they are pros at getting nearly anything in their mouth. (it's still messy) They sit at the picknik table with the "big kids" between 15-18 months. They eat, they socialize, the drop food all over the floor (the reason I have dogs) And meal time is a fun part of the day.

They also ALL nap at the same time. (two hours) Every day.

The kids are allowed to throw their plates away, and go play after they finish eating. They must (health codes) wash hands before and after eating. But, once they are done, even if they didn't eat much at all, they are free to go. The very little ones say "All done" and I do the rest for them, but they can be "all done" when ever they want.

But, I cannot change the way we all eat for one child. She is a bright girl. I admit, there are other issues with her. But I see that the light is on, she just needs some more time. She doesn't speak yet, she doesn't understand much speech, but she DOES watch and learn. She learns fast too! I really think that she can learn that we do things one way at daycare, and another way at home. By age two, she should be able to grasp this. Just, apparently not like I thought she would.

Edited to add.... If it were any other child, I would just throw her plate away. But, she is not rude or defiant at all. It just hasn't clicked yet. Like I said, this is just one of many issues, but this is the only one that affects me right now. We are just trying to burn one bridge at a time.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

What about a booster chair with a seat belt?

It seems to me that you have two issues:
1. She gets up and walks around with food (a health code violation in a daycare setting)
2. She doesn't eat enough at one sitting.

What if you treat these as separate issues? You need something to keep her in her place (high chair, booster seat) so that she can't just get up and waltz around with food. I'm not sure, given your set up, what the best solution is. We have a little booster seat that came with a tray (here is a more deluxe version than we have, but you can see the idea)-- you could either strap it on a chair and have it at a real table OR you could simply set it on the floor. When my SIL did daycare, she had her toddlers in those. They cost about $20, you can probably get them cheaper used. Or maybe you could ask the parents to get one and bring it in because it is, after all, their eating patterns that are causing the problem?

If you don't want to go that route, can you place her near you, and simply remind her to stay seated and/or remove her plate and wash her hands when she gets up?

Then SHE needs to learn to eat a reasonable amount in one sitting. And to learn that when she's "all done" that really does mean she's "all done". For that, I'm sure what you do with the other kids will work just fine with her, once you solve the walking ariound problem.

What if you suggested to the parents that they try to institute a family meal 4-5 times a week so that the kids can practice sitting and eating, a skill they will need as they get older?

Finally, I have to say, that if she's almost 3 and doesn't speak, I would be VERY concerned. Not about her intelligence, but about her language. Does she hear well (really, only a hearing test can tell that)? Can she articulate sounds? Does she try to communicate? (Sorry this is my area and I get a bit concerned when I hear of almost 3 year olds not talking because if it's a language delay/disorder, it's REALLY hard for kids to catch up if they're not identified until later.)


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## Plummeting (Dec 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nextcommercial* 
At age two, this is not too much to ask. Two year olds are very intellegent, and can sit for a whole meal.

I totally understand why you need this little girl to sit for meals, but I completely disagree with this blanket statement. Intelligence has nothing to do with whether or not a child has the self-control to sit still for an extended period of time. For some two-year-olds, it _is_ too much to ask them to sit through an entire meal. You don't have experience with those kids, I see, but believe me, they exist.....and they aren't all a product of casual dining at home. We always eat together and I cook, literally cook, 3 meals a day most days. However, DD is rarely capable of sitting for a meal. We usually eat around the coffee table (no tv on) because DD (28 months) needs to take a bite, then run around, then take another bite, then run around some more. Believe me, this is NOT a product of how she's been raised so far - it's just her. She's high energy and she hates to sit still. She has over the last several months finally become capable of sitting through a meal at a restaurant, but not all of the time.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LynnS6* 
Finally, I have to say, that if she's almost 3 and doesn't speak, I would be VERY concerned. Not about her intelligence, but about her language. Does she hear well (really, only a hearing test can tell that)? Can she articulate sounds? Does she try to communicate? (Sorry this is my area and I get a bit concerned when I hear of almost 3 year olds not talking because if it's a language delay/disorder, it's REALLY hard for kids to catch up if they're not identified until later.)

She can make a few sounds. B sounds "B.B" is a word that means several things. Then there is a word that has a million Ns in it. I have not figured out what that means, but to HER it means something.

WHen she wants me to see something, she uses that N word, and when I go see what she is talking about, it is always something that I really needed to see. A cup spilled, or the bunny cage door is open. So, I always listen to her. She CAN clearly say "cup". She loves her cups. She loves everybody's cup. She wants to organize the cups all day. LOL. But that is all she says.

She has never been evaluated. She has never been to the doctor's office. They have strong beliefs that she will never ever go to the doctor's office. They don't immunize. LOL... and the funny thing is... Off ALL my kids, these two are the ONLY two that haven't gotten the bad cold that is going around. LOL Even I am sick as a dog this week.

I honestly don't think she can hear me. She doesn't answer to her name at all. She talks too loud, she never talks to the other kids. I have asked the Mother, and she told me it has crossed her mind, but that it will have to be "who she is" because they aren't having her evaluated. Not even if the school requests it.

I thought about borrowing a baby signing book and starting with a few signs. I don't know how hard it is to learn that though (for me, not them)


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## captain crunchy (Mar 29, 2005)

On a completely different note, signing is extremely easy and I think it would be a huuuuuuuuge asset to you and the children in your care (present and future) if you knew some basic signs. Here is a site where it shows you a very short clip for each sign. http://www.mybabycantalk.com/content....aspx?letter=A

Sorry I can't help on the other thing -- as we have radically different ideas about children and food it seems









Check out the signs though, they are pretty easy and help SO much with preverbal children and children with delays etc.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Plummeting* 
I totally understand why you need this little girl to sit for meals, but I completely disagree with this blanket statement. Intelligence has nothing to do with whether or not a child has the self-control to sit still for an extended period of time. For some two-year-olds, it _is_ too much to ask them to sit through an entire meal. You don't have experience with those kids, I see, but believe me, they exist.....and they aren't all a product of casual dining at home. We always eat together and I cook, literally cook, 3 meals a day most days. However, DD is rarely capable of sitting for a meal. We usually eat around the coffee table (no tv on) because DD (28 months) needs to take a bite, then run around, then take another bite, then run around some more. Believe me, this is NOT a product of how she's been raised so far - it's just her. She's high energy and she hates to sit still. She has over the last several months finally become capable of sitting through a meal at a restaurant, but not all of the time.


I have had kids who have a hard time sitting. But, in 20 years of daycare, I have never had a child who was litterally incapable of learning within a few weeks to sit. (until now)

But, our setting is different from a home setting. They sit at a kid sized table, they eat with other kids, who are telling stupid knock knock jokes. They are eating kid fun foods, and peer pressure is amazing. They will all stay there and eat, until the leader says he's done then suddenly the others are all done too. (except bottomless pit. He's never done)

Parents tell me that their child has tantrums, or they cry over silly things, but that same child never does that here. (some do of course) but some parents will tell me that little pumpkin had a huge melt down during bath time, and I will be amazed, because I have never seen that side of this kid.

It's not because I am some magical disciplinarian either. I never have to use time out, I never have to yell, they do lose privelages. (leave the playdough table if they throw the playdough etc) But, seriously, they just play well, all day. I think it is more the mix of kids than anything. They are a cohesive group. They stay with me til they turn four, then they go to the same pre-school, then they go to the same Kindergarten.


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## Rivka5 (Jul 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nextcommercial* 
She can make a few sounds. B sounds "B.B" is a word that means several things. Then there is a word that has a million Ns in it. I have not figured out what that means, but to HER it means something. [...]

She has never been evaluated. She has never been to the doctor's office. They have strong beliefs that she will never ever go to the doctor's office. They don't immunize. LOL... and the funny thing is... Off ALL my kids, these two are the ONLY two that haven't gotten the bad cold that is going around. LOL Even I am sick as a dog this week.

I honestly don't think she can hear me. She doesn't answer to her name at all. She talks too loud, she never talks to the other kids. I have asked the Mother, and she told me it has crossed her mind, but that it will have to be "who she is" because they aren't having her evaluated. Not even if the school requests it.

Oh my God.

Do the parents sign with her? Do they have ways of communicating at home? I hope so. I can understand - kind of - wanting to avoid all medical interventions, but I can't understand possibly depriving your child of any exposure to language at all. If this little girl is deaf - and if she's only making a few different sounds at almost 3 years old, it's a strong possibility - she needs to be immersed in sign language!


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## Aeress (Jan 25, 2005)

I am glad she eats a variety of foods (though, does she eat anything mooshy, soft?)
and the ordering of cups could be being 2 or it could be part of the lack of language, in that some kids need the organization of things to keep their brain organized.

how are her motor skills?

not responding to her name could be becuase of not actually hearing, or it could be that she doesn't associate her name with the sounds you are making. some kids have trouble with associating meaning with object.

I would keep on eye on her, look for frequency of behaviors (like ordering cups, how often does she do it a day) and duration.

keep track of what she can or can't say. does she do any repetitive behaviors?

I wonder if the reason they will not go back to the dr is becuase the mentioned a concern?
I totally support parents right to choose medical care as they see fit...I have also worked with parents who's dr told them there may be a concern, and then the parent left the practice becuase they were not ready to see the concern.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nextcommercial* 
I honestly don't think she can hear me. She doesn't answer to her name at all. She talks too loud, she never talks to the other kids. I have asked the Mother, and she told me it has crossed her mind, but that it will have to be "who she is" because they aren't having her evaluated. Not even if the school requests it.

This is awful! Why on earth wouldn't they? Have you tried any little tests of your own, like calling her when she's not looking? I honestly think that's abusive, if they really suspect that she is deaf, and all they have decided to do about is accept her as "who she is". Great, that's a nice first step, but wouldn't they like to get to know her a little better by COMMUNICATING with her!?!

Anyway, if she can't understand you or hear you, that's probably one reason she's having a hard time learning it. I second the booster seat with a belt idea. We have one that we used instead of the high chair, and you could probably strap it to your bar stool.


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## zeldamomma (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nextcommercial* 

She has never been evaluated. She has never been to the doctor's office. They have strong beliefs that she will never ever go to the doctor's office.
...

I honestly don't think she can hear me. She doesn't answer to her name at all. She talks too loud, she never talks to the other kids. I have asked the Mother, and she told me it has crossed her mind, but that it will have to be "who she is" because they aren't having her evaluated. Not even if the school requests it.

This is terrifying. Their plan is to just ignore this major health issue? I could understand preferring an alternative form of healthcare, but simply choosing to ignore this is negligent. I may not grasp the subtleties of the situation, and wouldn't suggest this lightly, but have you considered calling CPS? This poor little girl needs to have her needs met, and there's a limit to what you can do for her-- her parents need to participate.

You sound like a wonderful caretaker, she is lucky to have you.

ZM


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Ack!! The poor child. Please do try to sign with her. I agree with a pp that sign language can make life easier for you as caregiver in addition to making a difference for this individual child.

If she can't hear (well), then sign language will give her a life line into language -- and help her understand that she can communicate. If she has trouble articulating, then sign language will help her articulate her needs. And if she has other issues (autism, for example), then it will still give her reinforcing languages.

Sign is very easy to do -- there are a ton of books and resources out there for baby sign. Do the best you can do -- don't worry too much about getting it right. If she's deaf or hard of hearing, she will eventually get a model that gets it "right". But what's crucial right now is her understanding the concept of language and learning to link symbol with sign -- whether that's a physical sign or a spoken one is irrelevant, given how far 'behind' in language she is.

Just do the sign and keep doing it every time you say the word. You'll get it, they'll get it.

A couple of resources for hte parents, if you suspect she can't hear:
Using sign language (a .pdf file)
Info from Galludet University
A really, really good book: Making Sense in Sign: A Lifeline for a Deaf Child

You can, if you suspect a severe developmental delay, call Early Intervention yourself. I suspect it would be the end of the relationship with the parents if you did, however. I just get soooo frustrated with parents who refuse perfectly legitimate services such as speech language intervention when it CAN HELP. And it's not about making kids 'smarter' or 'better' but about making their lives easier and happier. Why would you deny a child the ability to communicate?? But that's my own soapbox, and having completely hijacked your thread, I'll leave it for another time.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

There are so many variables in this story. We only know one side of it. It bothers me to see such quick advice to take drastic intervention into the life of this family. "Denying medical care" is a very, very grey concept. Parents cannot deny life saving care. They can deny many other interventions based on philophical beliefs, including widely accepted programs like vaccination. It's a slippery slope to say denying non life saving care constitutes abuse.

If this child has a real problem and the parents are truly "in denial", I predict they will change their tune over the next year or two. It's one thing to "accept" your two year old is not talkative. It will be much harder for them to ignore a 4 or 5 year old who isn't speaking. I doubt it will even get to that point. I really doubt it.


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## sun-shine01 (Aug 9, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zeldamomma* 
This is terrifying. Their plan is to just ignore this major health issue? I could understand preferring an alternative form of healthcare, but simply choosing to ignore this is negligent. I may not grasp the subtleties of the situation, and wouldn't suggest this lightly, but have you considered calling CPS? This poor little girl needs to have her needs met, and there's a limit to what you can do for her-- her parents need to participate.

You sound like a wonderful caretaker, she is lucky to have you.

ZM









:


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## Plummeting (Dec 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nextcommercial* 
Parents tell me that their child has tantrums, or they cry over silly things, but that same child never does that here. (some do of course) but some parents will tell me that little pumpkin had a huge melt down during bath time, and I will be amazed, because I have never seen that side of this kid.

That's typical for most kids - the more comfortable a child is with someone, the more likely they are to tantrum for them. The less comfortable a child is, the more likely they are to be quiet, be cooperative, follow directions, etc. That means many kids tantrum only for their parents. Lucky stay-at-home moms we are.


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## dani76 (Mar 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heartmama* 
There are so many variables in this story. We only know one side of it. It bothers me to see such quick advice to take drastic intervention into the life of this family. "Denying medical care" is a very, very grey concept. Parents cannot deny life saving care. They can deny many other interventions based on philophical beliefs, including widely accepted programs like vaccination. It's a slippery slope to say denying non life saving care constitutes abuse.

If this child has a real problem and the parents are truly "in denial", I predict they will change their tune over the next year or two. It's one thing to "accept" your two year old is not talkative. It will be much harder for them to ignore a 4 or 5 year old who isn't speaking. I doubt it will even get to that point. I really doubt it.

I agree with her. Maybe your daycare routine is too rigid for this child. Maybe she needs something less structured. I wouldn't be so quick to call CPS.


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## mamabohl (May 21, 2005)

Baby signing is really easy, even if you just incorperate a few important signs.

It sounds like she is deffinently not at the normal level for her age, I watch a little girl who just turned 3 in July, I've had her for a bit over a year. It took her 2 months to get used to not having juice all day and to actually take a nap at my house! She just had to get comefortable. She didn't talk much during those first 2 months either...but that was shyness. I don't think it's fair to expect an obviously behind child to do the same things the other children do as quickly. Can you modify the rules for her a bit? Maybe put a gate in the kitchen and let her eat while walking around in there only during meal time. Or let her take a bite at the table, then get up and walk around. I don't require my children to sit at the table during the whole meal, but I do require that food stays at the table (most of the time).

Hopefully going to your house will help expose her to more language and interaction.


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## Strong Mama (Feb 7, 2006)

First of all YOU are a SUPER child care provider!! ((HUGS)) and they are so so lucky to have you! Wow! You are very caring and helpful!!

Now, I have been reading this thread because a) my son cant use utensils well and he will be 3 in FEB, b)he will be attending a 2 hour program 3 xs a week and eating there possibly, c)he grazes....I cook, but he doesnt sit still at ALL for more than 2 seconds and d)he has speaking issues(which he has just start speech therapy for though).

So I am wondering what I could do different as a mommy to help my child in a setting that will be similiar. I constantly try to teach eat and sit at the table. Not working. This has got me to wondering. I am going to watch this thread.

But on another note, those parents dont sound terrible, thats just their way of raising their child. Keep working on signs!


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I can't honestly say they are being negligent. There are some areas where it the kids are clearly neglected. But not to the point where I think CPS should be called. For instance, they don't wash clothes often, so the kids come in the same outfit each day for three or four days. They ARE well fed, They ARE happy. They ARE thrilled when Mommy comes in the door. So, I know that there are no attachment issues. Mommy and Daddy just don't do laundry. (not a really big deal to me)

They don't buy the children toys, or new clothes. None at all. This is a choice they have made. I don't agree with it, but It doesn't seem to bother them much. So, again, not a big deal. On the opposite end of that mindset, I have spoiled my own child to the point that cleaning her room is a huge chore. (I am antifrugal)

They don't give their kids sugar. At all. (cool!) Unfortunatley, I do give the kids some sugar. (not them of course) Here, Friday is Pancake day! We LOVE pancake day. So, they get these horrid little non pancakes that I make out of organic brown stuff from Sprouts. They LOVE them. LOL

These parents are very very private. I think they are kinda strange, yet I really like them too. It's hard to explain. They are the only people I have met that are like this. So, I completely accept them as they come. I jsut have a hard time understanding them sometimes, so we are not always on the same page. I don't know a lot about them, so I usually have to ask. They don't tell me anything up front. I have had to learn by trial and error.

I respect their choice not to seek medical attention for their child. I cannot tell if they choose to ignore the speech problems because they don't want to deal with it, or if they are well aware of it, and just don't want to discuss it with me.

I will look into signing. I guess I could learn a few, start with the babies, and then since she learns mostly by observing, maybe she will get interested.

The other thing that never occured to me is, since one of the reasons the kids love meal time is that they think each other is very amusing, and if she can't hear them or understand them, SHE doesn't find them amusing at all. SO why sit there??? Hmmm??? I guess Stupid Knock Knock jokes aren't for everyone.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FEDUP* 
First of all YOU are a SUPER child care provider!! ((HUGS)) and they are so so lucky to have you! Wow! You are very caring and helpful!!

Now, I have been reading this thread because a) my son cant use utensils well and he will be 3 in FEB, b)he will be attending a 2 hour program 3 xs a week and eating there possibly, c)he grazes....I cook, but he doesnt sit still at ALL for more than 2 seconds and d)he has speaking issues(which he has just start speech therapy for though).

So I am wondering what I could do different as a mommy to help my child in a setting that will be similiar. I constantly try to teach eat and sit at the table. Not working. This has got me to wondering. I am going to watch this thread.

But on another note, those parents dont sound terrible, thats just their way of raising their child. Keep working on signs!


Thanks!

O.K, seriously. This is the first time I have run into this problem. At first, he may have a hard time, but soon he will join in on what the other kids are doing. Kids like to fit in, and they will follow the others at first til they feel comfortable making their own decisions. I suspect that he will do jsut fine within a couple of weeks. Most of the programs have kid sized tables, and kid sized plates, and kid sized chairs, this is fun for them, and they usually like to sit and eat. He may not eat enough at first, so keep a snack in the car for the ride home.

I hear grazing is a healthy way to eat, as long as it is healty foods. But, in a group program, it just cannot be done. But we offer food every two hours or less. My kids eat breakfast at home a lot, then again at my house at 8:00. Then a snack at 9:30, then lunch at 11:00. So they have plenty of opportunities to eat.

Good luck with his pre-school, I hope he loves it!


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Note that Early Intervention is NOT CPS - it's an EDUCATIONAL service for children who have special needs. I was assuming that the OP, being a licensed daycare provider, understood the difference.

Quote:

It's one thing to "accept" your two year old is not talkative. It will be much harder for them to ignore a 4 or 5 year old who isn't speaking. I doubt it will even get to that point. I really doubt it.
A 4 or 5 year old who isn't speaking may NEVER catch up. Sad but true. Thus, I can't advocate waiting until that age for intervention. Unlike adults, her peers are going to be pretty unforgiving about her inability to communicate. They will simply exclude her from play because she won't be able to keep up.

And to the OP: yes, if she doesn't have language, then she can't socialize with the other children. In addition to her probably just needing a lot of time to get used to the new routine, if she doesn't have any means of social interaction, she's got very little motivation to sit at the table.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LynnS6* 
Note that Early Intervention is NOT CPS - it's an EDUCATIONAL service for children who have special needs. I was assuming that the OP, being a licensed daycare provider, understood the difference.

Of course I know the difference, but Calling CPS is MY business. Calling for early intervention is THEIR business. I can't make that decision. All I can do is suggest, and possibly request they take her to be evaluated.

I did speak to her today. She quickly said, they are aware, but have chosen to work with her on their own terms. She made no explanation. I asked her if there was something that I could do at my house to help out. I told her I was willing and even eager to learn a few signs so we could communicate.

She claims that her daughter speaks clearly at home, and that no intervention is needed. So, I will drop it now. I didn't bring up the eating at the table issue, as it is not really her problem, it is our problem. We will deal with it here.

I know in my heart that her child does not speak at home. I don't know why she would say that. But, I will back off.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:

A 4 or 5 year old who isn't speaking may NEVER catch up. Sad but true. Thus, I can't advocate waiting until that age for intervention.
My response to this was made for me by the OP:

Quote:

Of course I know the difference, but Calling CPS is MY business. Calling for early intervention is THEIR business. I can't make that decision. All I can do is suggest, and possibly request they take her to be evaluated.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:

did speak to her today. She quickly said, they are aware, but have chosen to work with her on their own terms. She made no explanation. I asked her if there was something that I could do at my house to help out. I told her I was willing and even eager to learn a few signs so we could communicate.

She claims that her daughter speaks clearly at home, and that no intervention is needed. So, I will drop it now. I didn't bring up the eating at the table issue, as it is not really her problem, it is our problem. We will deal with it here.

I know in my heart that her child does not speak at home. I don't know why she would say that. But, I will back off.
Children are so vulnerable to the environment at that age, it would not surprise me to learn the child communicates better at home. I wouldn't assume the mother is lying (not saying you meant it that way). It may be that she is so attuned to what her daughter says, sounds that mean nothing to you are significant to her. These factors may be giving her a very different impression of the situation than your impression.

I think what's so awkward is two people working together with such different world views. I empathize with everyone involved.


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## Destinye (Aug 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Plummeting* 
I totally understand why you need this little girl to sit for meals, but I completely disagree with this blanket statement. Intelligence has nothing to do with whether or not a child has the self-control to sit still for an extended period of time. For some two-year-olds, it _is_ too much to ask them to sit through an entire meal. You don't have experience with those kids, I see, but believe me, they exist.....and they aren't all a product of casual dining at home. We always eat together and I cook, literally cook, 3 meals a day most days. However, DD is rarely capable of sitting for a meal. We usually eat around the coffee table (no tv on) because DD (28 months) needs to take a bite, then run around, then take another bite, then run around some more. Believe me, this is NOT a product of how she's been raised so far - it's just her. She's high energy and she hates to sit still. She has over the last several months finally become capable of sitting through a meal at a restaurant, but not all of the time.

Makes me glad my DD does not go to daycare. My DD is the same way too! Nothing to do with intelligence or lack of! We are working on it but when she is done she is done. Also my DD is very verbal, speaks in huge sentences and paragraphs but only recently had she said a word around strangers and then its not too clear, as she is a little nervous and shy. You may be right about this but don't assume!


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## Jes'sBeth (Aug 30, 2004)

I agree that most children behave differently in different environments and that there easily could be a huge adjustment period with starting daycare AND that a child speaks differently at home and in other environments, however most 3 year olds say more than a few sounds at daycare (especially if they feel comfortable enough to communicate that a cup spilled or that the bunny cage door is open)

To me this sounds like a significant hearing problem (she's not responding to her name at almost 3. That does not sound normal) All the 3 year olds I know are way beyond a few sounds. I find it extremely sad that her parents aren't searching out help for their daughter who probably can't hear (talking too loud is another indicator) and aren't introducing her to sign language either. I hope that they feel comfortable talking to you about it soon. In the mean time, I think using signs with her is probably a great way to help her communicate and tell you what she needs.

Even if she doesn't have a hearing loss, signs will probably help you out a lot. You could also call the local Deaf society and see if they have any literature on helping a child with a hearing loss. Not of course to refer the child (because I totally get that it's not your job/ place even though I wish it was) but to see if you can help the child while she's with you.

Also, if she does have a hearing loss, don't forget to try tapping her on the head or shoulder lightly to get her attention before you speak and make sure she can see your face when you're talking to her. I bet she picks up on signs really fast!

In terms of the eating, I think the gate on the kitchen would be a good stop gap measure until you get her sitting. Maybe she can have something interesting to look at (and yet easy to clean) while at the table. If she can't hear, she's probably bored at the table.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:

I find it extremely sad that her parents aren't searching out help for their daughter who probably can't hear (talking too loud is another indicator) and aren't introducing her to sign language either.
The parents said they were working with her at home. The OP said they are clearly attached and the child is otherwise well cared for. I simply caution that one always look at the big picture. We have delayed surgeries for ds despite medical protocol. We did not vaccinate. When the shoe is on the other foot, judgements can be terrifying.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jes'sBeth* 
I agree that most children behave differently in different environments and that there easily could be a huge adjustment period with starting daycare AND that a child speaks differently at home and in other environments, however most 3 year olds say more than a few sounds at daycare (especially if they feel comfortable enough to communicate that a cup spilled or that the bunny cage door is open)

I agree with this. And maybe she will adjust and start talking soon. We have a friend with a VERY shy and painfully quiet 3 year old, I didn't hear him talk until about the 4th time we'd seen him. He still won't talk to me, though he will talk to his mother around me now. This is after a year and a half of seeing them every two weeks or so. So if she is already comfortable communicating her basic needs to you in the best way she knows how, I think it shows that the best way she knows how has developed because of another problem.

I agree it's important to remain open to other points of view. I believe this very strongly, in fact, and as a CASA worker I have seen family values tread on by the state because they were not culturally acceptable to the social workers in charge. Not because they were harmful or damaging to the children, but because they were different (and representative of a subculture not usually viewed with favor by mainstream America).

However, I agree with Lynn56 that if she doesn't learn a way to communicate soon, certain doors may start closing in her brain, making it much more difficult for her to become a functional adult. That seems very unfair. That is what I think is abusive. If it were an attachment issue, if they were parenting in a way that was causing attachment issues, I don't think anyone here would say it wasn't. But if the result will be the same, shouldn't there be some intervention?


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## IGotJack (Sep 21, 2006)

When I had a little girl that did that (she was 2y 5m) I just finally started putting her plate and cup at the table, telling her "it's time to eat" and I'd set a timer. She knew that when the timer went off, the food was gone until snack time. Some days she'd throw a fit about it, but VERY rarely. And after 2 weeks of doing this at every meal, I was able to put the timer away. When I brought out lunch, she'd eat and when she was done (whether or not all her food was gone), she'd tell me "no more please" and we'd get down and get ready for nap time!


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:

However, I agree with Lynn56 that if she doesn't learn a way to communicate soon, certain doors may start closing in her brain, making it much more difficult for her to become a functional adult. That seems very unfair. That is what I think is abusive. If it were an attachment issue, if they were parenting in a way that was causing attachment issues, I don't think anyone here would say it wasn't. But if the result will be the same, shouldn't there be some intervention?
I think having an attached, involved, and loving parent is 100% different than having an unloving, detached, uninvolved parent. No, I don't think you can compare them at all.

I completely agree that if this child has a special need, her parents are responsible to see that her needs are met. I have a child with special needs. I just strongly disagree that special needs give others permission to apply a tunnel vision in which the context no longer matters. It certainly does matter whether a parent is making decisions out of laziness or from an active informed state of mind. To say "it doesn't matter" is just so hurtful, and offensive, to so many parents of special needs children.


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

I have not read through this whole thing, but as a child with a feeding tube because of eating issues, I can tell you there are a LOT of kids out there who have true eating isssues. The causes are many.

Why can't she graze? There are many kids who simply cannot tolerate a large volume of food in their stomachs at one time. My dd2 is an extreme example, but even my first dd who did not have all these issues was a grazer. If I tried to feed her a whole meal at once she would start to gag or even vomit if she kept eating to please me rather than listening to her own body. (Yeah, live and learn! Feel bad about it now.) Some toddlers will not be physically ready to eat a large meal until they are much older, and this goes for normal toddlers as well as those with underlying issues.

Other kids have subtle physical issues with tongue, chewing, or mouth coordination and cannot physically eat that fast. They may require a longer time to let the food get mushy and chew it and swallow it.

Since she's obviously beyond just being a picky eater, I would encourage the parents to contact Early Intervetion and get her evaluated for feeding and speech issues. The earlier you catch this, the better. The eval is free, the services are free. They can refuse them if they disagree with the dx (if there is one). There is nothing to lose but a LOT to gain (literally). I would also advise the parent to seek input from the pediatricia, as there could be a medical cause for her lack of growth. But from what you describe it sounds more physical. You might encourage the parents to bring a nutritious drink for her in a leak proof cup that she can be allowed to drink outside of mealtime.

Until the eval is done (assuming the parents agree to it) I would make it a priority to feed her on her terms and make sure she gets proper nutrition. At home with my dd's I would-- and still do with the 2yo-- pop a bite of food in every so often. I just keep the food set out and I pop in a bite, wait until I don't see chewing, and give another bite. The meal gets finished.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heartmama* 
I think having an attached, involved, and loving parent is 100% different than having an unloving, detached, uninvolved parent. No, I don't think you can compare them at all.

I completely agree that if this child has a special need, her parents are responsible to see that her needs are met. I have a child with special needs. I just strongly disagree that special needs give others permission to apply a tunnel vision in which the context no longer matters. It certainly does matter whether a parent is making decisions out of laziness or from an active informed state of mind. To say "it doesn't matter" is just so hurtful, and offensive, to so many parents of special needs children.

I'm certainly not trying to hurt or offend anyone. And I also doubt there are many parents who don't get their children's hearing evaluated because they're lazy. Ignorant, fearful, in denial, religious, or maybe they're making an active informed decision. In this situation, it sounds like it seems very hard to tell.

I also disagree that being attached, involved, and loving is enough. If this child really has a severe hearing problem, and if her parents make no effort to either find hearing aids or teach her sign language, it is highly likely she will NEVER really learn to communicate very well. I consider communicating our biological imperative. Our ability to talk, whether with our larynx or our hands, is what makes us uniquely human. If there were no chance she would ever be able to learn to talk well, and they were therefore not putting any pressure on her, that's one thing. But since it seems like she IS trying to communicate, I think it's irresponsible, and, I stand by my assertion, abusive, to ignore her problem and not try to help her.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:

But since it seems like she IS trying to communicate, I think it's irresponsible, and, I stand by my assertion, abusive, to ignore her problem and not try to help her.
Again, though, you are describing the mother as "ignoring" her child's needs. The mother said she is choosing to address the issue herself at home. She says the child communicates at home. So, asserting she is abusive sounds like you are saying "if you don't handle a special need in a mainstream manner, you are abusive". Surely you can see how that implication will alarm and hurt parents, particularly at a site where many do choose alternative methods?


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## prettypixels (Apr 13, 2006)

Aren't there some causes of hearing loss which are preventable and/or curable? If so, IMO the parents are being negligent to not get their child some attention. People here don't believe in making the choice about circumcision for their child... why make a decision that can affect her communication skills for the REST of her LIFE? Isn't that just as bad?

Questioning the medical community, doing your own research, and informing yourself are great things. Rejecting ALL medical help for your kids based on philosophy, to me, is not ok. Even assuming she is permanently deaf, a hearing aid could possibly offer her some help and a window into the world, and doesn't she deserve that??? I think so.

BTW I don't think handling things in an alternative way is abusive. I do think ignoring problems can be abusive. I also think not even bothering to have her evaluated by ANYone could potentially be abusive if there are problems simmering there that may become permanent if ignored.

I hope for the best for this little one.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:

BTW I don't think handling things in an alternative way is abusive. I do think ignoring problems can be abusive.
If a person believes there is only one way to handle a certain issue, other choices become invisible, tatamount to "doing nothing". But, that is not the same as actually "doing nothing". That is "doing something different than what you would do". So, I'm just amazed at the rush to judge the parents as abusive. It is so abstract. Abuse~because the child may have a problem that may be helped by mainstream care, or may not, and which the parents are treating at home, which may or may not help or hinder the problem the child may have. This puts all parents of special needs children who choose alternative care immediately suspect of abuse. Surely you don't mean that?


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## Mom2lilpeeps (Aug 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Destinye* 
Makes me glad my DD does not go to daycare. My DD is the same way too! Nothing to do with intelligence or lack of! We are working on it but when she is done she is done. Also my DD is very verbal, speaks in huge sentences and paragraphs but only recently had she said a word around strangers and then its not too clear, as she is a little nervous and shy. You may be right about this but don't assume!

I could have written this. Neither one of my toddlers will sit down to eat a meal. We are working on it too.

I have read all the posts here and feel a lot of assumptions and judgements are being made about these parents. I am going to try to say this as gently as possible so please go easy on me... If the OP takes such issue with the eating patterns of this child, the perceived lack of attention to a possible hearing deficit, and the alleged oddities of this family why not just be very open with the parents and see if they still want their child to attend her daycare. I am not saying the daycare isn't excellent. I'm just saying they sound like they think and live "outside of the box" and if their principals don't mesh with the caregiver's perhaps there would be a more appropriate choice for their family. Perhaps the daycare provider could come up with a list of alternatives to present to the parents if they did decide to withdraw their child from her program.

As I said, my little people do not attend daycare so my experience with any of this is nil. So please take this with a grain of salt as they say.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heartmama* 
If a person believes there is only one way to handle a certain issue, other choices become invisible, tatamount to "doing nothing". But, that is not the same as actually "doing nothing". That is "doing something different than what you would do". So, I'm just amazed at the rush to judge the parents as abusive. It is so abstract. Abuse~because the child may have a problem that may be helped by mainstream care, or may not, and which the parents are treating at home, which may or may not help or hinder the problem the child may have. This puts all parents of special needs children who choose alternative care immediately suspect of abuse. Surely you don't mean that?

OK, well I guess I think that this is a problem that the parents should also involve the secondary caregiver in. She spends her day in nextcommercial's home, she is nearly three years old, and she cannot communicate effectively either with her caregiver, or with the other children. IF they are truly addressing this, I don't see why they would not be forthcoming with her about what they are doing, and how she can further help the child.

I surely don't mean that all parents who choose alternative care are immediately suspect of abuse. I think that's quite an extrapolation to make. I think that it sounds like the parents are doing very little to help this child, especially because of the comment about "that's who she is". I don't think that sounds like they're seeking alternative care, I think that sounds like they're not doing anything. And, yes, I think that's abusive.

I also think that choosing alternative care for your child could be abusive. It depends on what you chose. What if she had appendicitis, and her parents had decided to treat her with aromatherapy, hoping that they could cure her infection? That would also be abusive, IMO.

Also, just because the treatment is mainstream doesn't mean it doesn't work.

And of course we're all jumping to conclusions here, as is the nature of the beast on the internet. We don't really know anything about the situation or the child.


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## Destinye (Aug 27, 2003)

I think honesty is the best policy and having another talk with the parents might be helpful, and really talk to them about your concerns, if it does not seem you can make it mesh for you and them, it might be best to have them find other options, especially as the little girl is the one who is going to be caught in between. It sounds like the OP is really trying hard to make things work but if it is not going to change then I think it might be best to tell them its not working as it is going right now. Plus also voice your concerns about her hearing, and lack of speech again. There definitely is a time to intervene thats for sure. I hope you can work it out somehow, or at least shine a light for them about things they could be doing for their DD.


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## Destinye (Aug 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom4emnxani* 
I could have written this. Neither one of my toddlers will sit down to eat a meal. We are working on it too.

I have read all the posts here and feel a lot of assumptions and judgements are being made about these parents. I am going to try to say this as gently as possible so please go easy on me... If the OP takes such issue with the eating patterns of this child, the perceived lack of attention to a possible hearing deficit, and the alleged oddities of this family why not just be very open with the parents and see if they still want their child to attend her daycare. I am not saying the daycare isn't excellent. I'm just saying they sound like they think and live "outside of the box" and if their principals don't mesh with the caregiver's perhaps there would be a more appropriate choice for their family. Perhaps the daycare provider could come up with a list of alternatives to present to the parents if they did decide to withdraw their child from her program.

As I said, my little people do not attend daycare so my experience with any of this is nil. So please take this with a grain of salt as they say.

I was thinking this too, though sounds like the OP is really trying to work with her, and workm it out and maybe in another DayCare the person might not be so willing to do that and the little girl could end up in a situation that was really not helping her.

I had to think of this thread today at DD's new little playgroup, we all had a snack and all the other 4 kids sat there eating, DD took 3 bites and announced she was done and wanted to play now, and just was not interested in eating anything else. I am sure in a daycare though she would learn to adjust, but she definitely is a grazer and not sure how that would work in general for a daycare setting.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:

also think that choosing alternative care for your child could be abusive. It depends on what you chose. What if she had appendicitis, and her parents had decided to treat her with aromatherapy, hoping that they could cure her infection? That would also be abusive, IMO.
It would be illegal. The law does not permit a parent to deny life saving care. We are talking about therapy, palliative care, and preventive care. If parents had no legal say over that kind of care, failing to vaccinate would be a criminal offense. Failing to do anything that might benefit your child would be criminal. I realize you are not saying this, but it's a slippery slope.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heartmama* 
Failing to do anything that might benefit your child would be criminal. I realize you are not saying this, but it's a slippery slope.

I don't think it really is. I don't think failing to care for most of your child's needs have the same effect. If they fed her sugar all the time and never taught her to brush her teeth, and all her teeth fell out, she would still eventually be able to fix that, if she so desired. Even if her eyesight was very poor and they didn't get her glasses, it would have no effect on her ability to eventually correct her vision, if she so desired.

But there have been case studies done on children who were either not diagnosed as deaf and therefore received no treatment, or who were severely abused (like locked in the closet their whole childhood) and had no interaction. After a certain age, if these children hadn't developed the part of the brain used to communicate, they lost the ability forever. A lot of these studies were outlined in What's Going On In There? by Lise Eliot, I'm sorry - I would cite them but I've lent the book out. That's also one of the reasons that California is trying to pass a bill to make hearing tests mandatory in the hospital, because many people don't realize their children have hearing problems and it becomes much more difficult to help them learn the older they get.

Anyway, that's why I feel so strongly about this problem, and that a nonchalant attitude is abusive.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:

I don't think it really is. I don't think failing to care for most of your child's needs have the same effect. If they fed her sugar all the time and never taught her to brush her teeth, and all her teeth fell out, she would still eventually be able to fix that, if she so desired. Even if her eyesight was very poor and they didn't get her glasses, it would have no effect on her ability to eventually correct her vision, if she so desired.

But there have been case studies done on children who were either not diagnosed as deaf and therefore received no treatment, or who were severely abused (like locked in the closet their whole childhood) and had no interaction. After a certain age, if these children hadn't developed the part of the brain used to communicate, they lost the ability forever. A lot of these studies were outlined in What's Going On In There? by Lise Eliot, I'm sorry - I would cite them but I've lent the book out. That's also one of the reasons that California is trying to pass a bill to make hearing tests mandatory in the hospital, because many people don't realize their children have hearing problems and it becomes much more difficult to help them learn the older they get.

Anyway, that's why I feel so strongly about this problem, and that a nonchalant attitude is abusive.
I hear what you are saying. The thing is, someone else would feel that letting a child's eat sugar and never brush her teeth is abuse. Another person will say that failing to get them glasses is abuse. For you, failing to have a formal hearing evaluation for this child is abusive. That is the slippery slope I'm talking about. These are all valid and important concerns. Who decides which constitutes abuse?

I really think negligent abuse depends upon a pattern of neglect in the home. Otherwise there is just no way to distinguish any of us here from these parents. If the OP said "the child is filthy, dull eyed, underfed, and the parents seem to be hostile towards her, but they said it's just who she is and they are going to treat her at home"...yes this would totally change my view. They aren't meeting her other needs, so there is no evidence they could handle her special needs. But if the child is loved, attached, well fed, bright eyed, clean, and the parents obviously care about her...then there is no pattern of neglect to sound the alarm and assume they are going to wind up with a deaf, mute, irreversibly damaged child. It's hard to believe they would care less about such an outcome than perfect strangers, kwim? I assume they do care, and they will meet this need as well.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

About the speech, it could be that the girl is following a very familiar family speech pattern. If you grew up with younger siblings and cousins who spoke late but had no other problems, it would not be a cause for alarm if your child did the same.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heartmama* 
Who decides which constitutes abuse?

I really think negligent abuse depends upon a pattern of neglect in the home.

Negligent abuse can be a pattern of neglect, but it could also involve one action. Allowing your child to do something very unsafe and life-endangering, for example, could be considered abusive. Or, I still contend, not addressing a very serious potential developmental problem with appropriate treatment, alternative or mainstream.

However, I think this is a somewhat moot discussion, we've apparently lost nextcommercial, and the child will probably turn out just fine. I hope so! It's been interesting to think about for the last few days.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah* 
However, I think this is a somewhat moot discussion, we've apparently lost nextcommercial, and the child will probably turn out just fine. I hope so! It's been interesting to think about for the last few days.

No, You haven't lost me. Ive been sick, and haven't actually had too many clear thoughts this week.

Anyway, here is a small update to my original problem...

I placed her at lunch, between two other kids, and put the baby in the high chair behind her. SHe sat through lunch!!! TWICE! she ate, and she ate, and she ate. (It mighta had something to do with being Pancake Friday)

But, she just kept eating and eating. To make things even better, after she had eaten, she was unusually happy. I am not sure if it was because it was a new experience, or she liked having an engourged tummy, or what, but she was active, happy, silly. It was really cool to watch her light up like that.

We will try it again on Monday and see if we get the same response when it isn't Pancakes. (she does have pancakes with no sugar, or white flower in them)

As far as her hearing, I never said it WAS a hearing problem. I said I suspected that it MIGHT be. It could be an auditory processing disorder. She doesn't respond to verbal cues at all. But, she does hear the rabbit cage, or the dog collars rattling, no matter where she is in the house, and she comes running in. So, while it could still be a hearing issue, it could also be a processing issue. Not that one is better than the other, but I just want it on record that I am not qualified to even venture a safe guess.

As far as neglecting the problem, I have had countless parents who will ignore an obvious vision problem, or a learning problem. Simply because they want to act like it isn't real. I have had MANY parents who will ignore a serious health problem because it takes time out of their work day, and they won't take the child to the doctor. Seriously, some parents are very selfish. They don't want to be bothered. Two years ago, I had to THREATEN a parent to take her very very sick daughter to the doctor. The girl had been sick for three weeks. (I have heart wrenching pictures) and they would not be bothered. WHen they finally DID take her in, it was a sinus infection gone horribly wrong. She now had a brain infection, that left her in ICU for a week. The child nearly died because work was too important. (their job IS important, I get that.. but not when your kid is that sick)

Just because most of you cannot imagine that, they are out there. BUT, I can promise you, they don't read on these boards, because it is about children. They love their kids, but a child related board does not intrest them.

Not all parents are like you. I wish most or all were, but maybe half of the parents I know put their kids first. The rest put them where it is most convenient at the time.


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## Harry's Mom (Jul 17, 2005)

Wow, what a topic! I started reading 'cause my almost 3 yo has food and speech issues. I want to respond as someone with an auditory processing deficit. My problem is that I have trouble filtering out background noise and often only "get" 65% of a conversation. No one identified this when I was young and I learned to compensate, but as a shy sensitive child it was very hard feeling like I was always a step behind because my brain was still figuring out what had been said while a conversation had moved on. I sure wish someone had identified the problem and helped me with it, and I consider my deficit to be fairly mild.

Is providing help the job of the daycare provider as well as the parents? Seems like it's just a matter of opinion. Is there abuse involved? That is not just a matter of opinion. Child care providers are mandated reporters. If they suspect abuse, they are legally required to report it. I don't know the particulars, but I'm sure OP does. I'm sure she has guidelines to follow re. what's reportable. A call to CPS could certainly clear up any doubt. Do I personally think it's abuse to ignore a hearing problem? YES! To me, it also sounds like the parents are not just making some alternative lifestyle choices but are really kind of "out there." I'm curious about whether their decisions have a particular religious or cultural basis? OP, I'd hate to be in your shoes, 'cause it sounds like communicating with the parents is really challenging.

I'm glad the girl ate on Friday, by the way. My ds only sits still to be fed (he doesn't self-feed much) if he is entertained with books at the table or a really interesting view out the window.

A final note, we really like the videos from www.signingtime.com for learning sign language. They're good for hearing children too!

Good luck!

Betzi


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Harry's Mom* 
Child care providers are mandated reporters. If they suspect abuse, they are legally required to report it. I don't know the particulars, but I'm sure OP does. I'm sure she has guidelines to follow re. what's reportable. A call to CPS could certainly clear up any doubt.


I did call CPS in the beginning. I called because the kids are never washed. They wear the same clothes all week. I have sent them home in diapers that I had marked, and they came back in the same diapers.

CPS asked "Are they fed?" (yes) "Do they appear healthy?" (yes, they are extremely healthy) "Do they seem fearful when Mom picks up?" (no, they light up when she comes in the door) **I start to feel stupid at this point**

I told her that the oldest child had no speech at all. BUT, I also admitted to not knowing her very well yet, and some kids take a while to warm up.

She told me they would keep a file, but basically do nothing. There is no law against being a bad housekeeper. She actually said, "We have Mothers who prostitute their teenage daughters, we can't follow up on the parents who don't bathe their children".

SO.... I have no place else to go. My hands are tied. BUT, I can do what I can do here.

Part of me just keeps hoping that one day her Mom will say "I have seen a change in her since she started coming" and that will open up a door for conversation.

I know that we (mom and I) have had a few rough starts. She always wants me to cut my fee for some reason, I finally told her that if she can find cheaper childcare, that I won't be hurt if they leave for the less expensive place. I told her that I could easily fill both spots and make nearly twice what I am charging her. (because I give them a HUGE break on my tuition) After that our relationship has been strained. So, I know she is uncomfortable around me.

So, I will wait.


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## Tinas3muskateers (May 19, 2004)

Give her an area in which she can be safe and graze in. Sitting might be hard for her, and hard for her to switch on and off from home to school. Maybe let the other kids eat first and then allow her to graze around the table.

As far as the other things go, If she isnt talking at all, there is concern here for a speech delay. If her parents are not going to get her EI then isnt much you can do here unless you wanted to help her in speech and teach her sign.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Glad to hear that she ate and ate and ate!! That's a good sign and shows that she's learning.

I would encourage you to do some sign -- it sounds like the parents aren't in a position to address her obvious language needs (if they aren't in a position change diapers overnight?







: what on earth happens on the weekends? Is it a financial issue? I remember meeting a very young, very poor mom while taking Amtrak who could not afford to buy diapers, had to make the diapers 'last' 8-12 hours. Do they need a referal to family assistance?)

I guess I would see if you can start some sign with *all* the children, give these parents information about typical language development and recommend a screening. You're right that it could be hearing, or processing or a dozen other things.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LynnS6* 
I would encourage you to do some sign -- it sounds like the parents aren't in a position to address her obvious language needs (if they aren't in a position change diapers overnight?







: what on earth happens on the weekends? Is it a financial issue? I remember meeting a very young, very poor mom while taking Amtrak who could not afford to buy diapers, had to make the diapers 'last' 8-12 hours. Do they need a referal to family assistance?)

Yeah, it sounds like they're pretty strapped, and maybe can't even afford to do much laundry, or buy clothes. Would they take any assistance? You say their pretty private, maybe they don't even want to allow Early Intervention to get their foot in the door?

That's great that you found a solution to the eating issue! I hope it sticks.


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