# Schoolbus Stop Situation...was I wrong? (LONGGG)



## childsplay (Sep 4, 2007)

So here's what happened, I walked down to my DK's bus stop yesterday to meet them. I had with me my two daycare boys (in the stroller). Anyway, the bus arrives and out jumps DS (6), DS (5) , then a little girl, who walks away down the sidewalk, then my DD (5) and then another little girl. Second little girl gets part way down the steps and the driver asks her where her Mom is and is she sure this is her stop. Little girl says "yes and that's my sister (pointing down the sidewalk) my Mom said she'd meet us here she's just not here yet" Then the sister yells over that this is their stop and their Mom is just late, and they just live up on the hill (pointing to a dividing street). So bus driver is a bit unsure and asks me if I know the girls, I don't, but then again it's a large wooded neighborhood and it's hard to know who has kids and who doesn't, plus it's only day three of school.
At this point both girls are off the bus and getting upset because they don't want to miss their Mom when she gets there.
So I tell the bus driver not to worry I'll hang out here with them until the Mom arrives . (the Mom being late is completely understandable to me, as it's happened to me numerous times before...)
So we all go over and sit on the grass on the side of the road careful to be highly visable for the Mom. At this point one of the girl's starts crying a bit saying she thinks she made a big mistake, because now the hill doesn't look familiar.
Ok say I, no problem we'll sort it out and find your Mom. I ask the child for her phone number, which she rhymes off perfectly. I call her house and leave a message saying who I was, where we are, etc...
In total we're there about 10 minutes when the Mom comes running down the sidewalk. Turns out they were supposed to get off at the next stop (which looks very much like this one)
The Mom was happy to see them and thanked me and we chatted for a bit then went on our way.
My concern is, upon telling DH about this he totally disagreed, saying I should have told them to get back on the bus and let the system deal with them. (BUT...if this was really their stop and Mom was really just late, they'd have to stay on the bus for the entire route then eventually be taken back to the school, which would be at least an hour of panic for the late Mom who shows up and finds no kids at the bus stop....) I honestly beleived the Mom would show up, any second, late and frazzled like I have many times.
He said that I was lucky the Mom didn't try to charge me with abducting the kids! Or there could have been a fistfight!
Now I just feel sick about it, the girls were adamant that they were staying and waiting for their Mom, and the whole thing worked out in the end....
I'm just so upset, I couldn't sleep last nightwas I too interfering??


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## sebandg'smama (Oct 29, 2005)

The dangers of the "what if" situations...it's crazy making!

I think you need to go by how the mother reacted! So I think that you did a really nice thing. Glad to know that there are people out there looking out for other people!

-Melanie


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## secondseconds (Jun 22, 2005)

You did the right thing. All you did was stand there, the bus driver let them off at the wrong place--the mother should take that up with the school. But how on earth would YOU be in trouble for being where you were supposed to be?! Silly DH.


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## lifeguard (May 12, 2008)

I think you did fine.


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## Pepper44 (May 16, 2006)

I would have done the exact same thing you did. I think your DH over reacted. You were sitting next to the bus stop, it's not as if you took them somewhere in your car. If anything I think the bus driver could get in trouble for leaving the girls with a stranger instead of their parent!


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## Oriole (May 4, 2007)

I don't think there is right or wrong








I think you acted as well as you could under the circumstances. I probably would have done the same. Could have mom turned out to be some crazy woman who tried to charge you with abduction? Could be, I guess.

By the way, if the girls would end up back on the bus, the bus driver would have contacted the school, and mom would receive a phone call. So I don't think she'd be in panic for too long.

The thing is, we are human, and we do what we feel is the right thing to do. The right thing could be many different solutions to the same problem. All worked out - that means you did the right thing! Don't stress. Sounds like mom AND the girls were happy with the solution you offered.


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## daytripper75 (Jul 29, 2003)

You did the right thing. I would rather have my children in the care of a mother from their school that I don't know than a bus driver who asks a young child if they're "sure."


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## childsplay (Sep 4, 2007)

Well yes...it really should be the driver or the school at fault. They should really have a better system, or even a list of who goes where.
I find that my DH is so out of touch with what my world involves (child related) and reacts in his narrow point of view way, which is fed by media, horror stories etc....rather than real life decision making situations with our own kids, my daycare kids and friend's/neighbor's kids. Where I'm always and I mean always surrounded by our kids, other people's kids/babies, I'm a lot more apt to do things like this, where he's terrified of even speaking to another child for fear of being labled a perv or something... (he's a huge, kind of imposing guy) So I think that's where he was coming from : (

Thanks for the positive words....I really appreciate them.


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## newbymom05 (Aug 13, 2005)

I think what you did was very nice, but unless you knew the girls, I'm with your husband. I assume the mom was waiting at the right bus stop, and the driver told her where to find the girls. But what if she *had* been late? The only contact she'd have would be the bus driver, and who knows how long it would have taken her to track him down, how long she would have waited, etc. The bus driver seems pretty clueless, but the kids are his responsibility IMO and that's what the parent would have expected. No negative judgment towards you--I think you acted like a concerned, community-minded parent.


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## _betsy_ (Jun 29, 2004)

It felt right to you at the time, though in retrospect maybe it wasn't the best decision. It felt OK yesterday, and it all worked out just fine, but you're not sure you'd doit again. That happens to all of us from time to time. Don't lose any sleep over it!


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## babymommy2 (May 14, 2009)

I am also with your husband. I think you did what you thought was right and luckily the mom was not more upset, but it was up to the bus drivers to not let those children off, at least not the 5 year old. The bus driver does not know you, and cannot entrust those children inot your care. I would be pretty upset to know my bus driver left my children in the care of a stranger. If that had been my situation I weould have been waiting for my kids at the bus stop, if they didn't get off I would be asking the driver where they were, I would be calling the school to find out if they got on, if the driver didin't know (but he should). I would fully expect the driver to take them back to the school if he missed their stop, or if I was late, so the first place I would look at is the school, or follow the busroute myself and get my child off the bus had I been late. At our bus children who are in grade 1 and K are not to be let off the bus unless the designated person is there to take them, and they are to be returned to school, so knowing that, it is what I would expect and how I would try to find my child.


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## lindberg99 (Apr 23, 2003)

Things worked out fine, you shouldn't feel bad! I can see your husband's point though. Those children were the bus driver's responsibility until he *knew* he had dropped them off at the correct spot with their mom. I think your DH saying that the mom could have accused you of kidnapping is a bit paranoid. But I guess there are some nutty people out there!

I find it weird that the driver didn't call the bus garage or check a list to see where those children were supposed to get off. Surely on the third day of school there would still be some kind of list of who gets off at what stop?

Can you imagine how that other mom felt when the bus pulled off, her children didn't get off and the driver said "Oh, I left them with some lady up the street"? Yikes!


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## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

I disagree with your dh.

you did the right thing absolutely.

It was really kind of you.


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

You did good. And it all worked out. Now you know if it happens again, to look at another solution.

The bus driver already left them off in a situation he was unsure about. He knew you didn't know the family. If anything, he was in the wrong.


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## HarperRose (Feb 22, 2007)

I think your dh makes a valid point (mine may be inclined to respond the same way) but I think you did the right thing anyway.

If I were the other mother, I'd probably be distraught wondering where my kid was and SO GRATEFUL that someone was watching out for them!

Sounds like the other mother responded just like that.


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## bebebradford (Apr 4, 2008)

WELL if my children are ever in that situation I SURE HOPE someone as kind as you are is nearby! I think you did the BEST thing. Don't beat yourself up. As for the abduction charge.. umm I don't know how that would play out. The girls got off willingly.. and would have gotten off even if you weren't there. You just stood by to make sure no harm came to them. It's not like you took them somewhere else.







: it's good to still see caring people in the world!!!


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *marybethorama* 
I disagree with your dh.

you did the right thing absolutely.

It was really kind of you.

And I'm gad to hear the bus driver was concerned as well it honestly sounded like everyone wanted success but maybe a better overall system needs to be in place. Here the little ones all carry colored cards that the driver knows indicates which is there bus stop its a sticker that goes right on there shirts but is removed right before they get off for added security. Like a green sticker is stop #1 a blue #4 ect.

Deanna


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## SleeplessinAZ (Jun 21, 2005)

I think you did the right thing.

This almost exact situation just happened to my 5 yr old on his first day of K. He got off at the first stop instead of the second stop (about a mile away from each other in another community), not knowing any better since it was the very first time he had ever rode the bus. If he had been told to get off at the second stop I know he would have. The bus driver failed to make sure he got off at the right stop. So I was waiting for him at his stop and he never got off, so you can imagine what went through my mind. A teacher was even riding the bus with the kids to make sure that these kinds of situations don't happen! The teacher and the bus driver called the school to find my son. Luckily a mom like you had waited with my son and called the school to let them know a little boy got off at the wrong stop. My son was sobbing when I finally found him and I sobbed with him. I was so grateful to that mom who stayed with him. If it wasn't for her I don't know what might have happened to him.

Anyway, in both situations, the bus driver failed to do their job correctly and thanks to the kindness of you, the kids were safe. Thank you!


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## Youngfrankenstein (Jun 3, 2009)

I believe you did what was in the best interest of the child and that's the important part. I know my kids would have been scared and confused in a similar situation and I would love that another responsible adult treated them kindly and helped them.

I am rarely not home when the bus comes but it has happened. Luckily the neighbor mom told my son to wait at her house and kept an eye out the window.

I know the kids would have been fine left on the bus for the driver to deal with but I see this as a win/win situation. These kids were well taken care of and nothing bad happened.


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## 2cutiekitties (Dec 3, 2006)

The kids were supposed to get off of the next stop... so if you put them back on the bus, then they would go to the next stop which maybe had mom waiting for them?

You did fine, but you shouldnt be put in a very precarious situation. Your hubby does have a point. I, personally, would have put them back on the bus. Quite frankly neither you or the mom should be happy and I would call and complain. What a ridiculous situation. What if you werent there? OMG..........

The what ifs are what would eat me alive.


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## Youngfrankenstein (Jun 3, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2cutiekitties* 
The kids were supposed to get off of the next stop... so if you put them back on the bus, then they would go to the next stop which maybe had mom waiting for them?

You did fine, but you shouldnt be put in a very precarious situation. Your hubby does have a point. I, personally, would have put them back on the bus. Quite frankly neither you or the mom should be happy and I would call and complain. What a ridiculous situation. What if you werent there? OMG..........

The what ifs are what would eat me alive.

IMO there were no "what if's" about this situation. If the OP wasn't there, the bus driver would NEVER let the kids off. He/She would have them stay on the bus and call the garage and confirm where they got off. It's not like they leave them at the side of the road.


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## StrawberryFields (Apr 6, 2005)

I don't think you were interfering. I think the situation was totally fine! I mean, yes, crazy stories are reported in the media. But I imagine that in 99% of situations another mom with kids in the same school waiting at a bus stop to help some lost girls call home is not going to result in fistfights and abduction charges. I choose not to live my life in fear of that other 1%. I don't think you were out of line!


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## Pepper44 (May 16, 2006)

I don't understand why the kids there don't have little tags on their backpacks that are labeled with all their info. Here, at least where I did kindergarten student teaching, each child had a tag with their full name, parent phone number, address, bus number, and bus stop street/location. Walkers, parent pick up, daycare pick up, and bus riders all had different colored tags. No confusion!

If I sent my DD to school and the school didn't have that system I would be tempted to make her a tag like that so that she could have the bus driver look at it if she was confused.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

I don't understand how The bus driver didn't know if it was their stop or not. I get that it was only the 3rd day of school, but all the more reason he should be double-checking his master list.


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## bebebradford (Apr 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Youngfrankenstein* 
IMO there were no "what if's" about this situation. If the OP wasn't there, the bus driver would NEVER let the kids off. He/She would have them stay on the bus and call the garage and confirm where they got off. It's not like they leave them at the side of the road.

From what I read.. the girls were ALREADY off the bus saying it was their stop.


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## Tizzy (Mar 16, 2007)

As a bus driver, I say the situation was totally botched. The girls should not have gotten off the bus. The driver should have used the radio to call base to double check their stop or checked their route information/manifest.

Our policy is that if someone is not there to pick the child up, we wait a reasonable amount of time, radio base, they call the provided number and then the backup number. If no one can be reached, the child stays on the bus for the remainder of the route and if no one can be reached by then they are returned to school. Rarely do they end up back at school, usually we can meet the parent at some other point on the route. A child NEVER gets off at a stop unless they are old enough to be home alone, they have an older sibling who is old enough (legally) to be home alone with them, OR a parent/guardian is there to meet them.


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## bebebradford (Apr 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little grey mare* 
As a bus driver, I say the situation was totally botched. The girls should not have gotten off the bus. The driver should have used the radio to call base to double check their stop or checked their route information/manifest.

Our policy is that if someone is not there to pick the child up, we wait a reasonable amount of time, radio base, they call the provided number and then the backup number. If no one can be reached, the child stays on the bus for the remainder of the route and if no one can be reached by then they are returned to school. Rarely do they end up back at school, usually we can meet the parent at some other point on the route. A child NEVER gets off at a stop unless they are old enough to be home alone, they have an older sibling who is old enough (legally) to be home alone with them, OR a parent/guardian is there to meet them.


Thank you for that information! I agree. .. if anyone made a mistake it was the bus driver. The OP was an innocent bystander who tried to look out for small children!


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## Momily (Feb 15, 2007)

Although I understand that you acted from a good place, the children were never in danger, and you saved the girls from some anxiety, I would be pretty upset if this happened to my child.

If the bus driver let the girls off with you, then he likely would have let them off with other people, some of whom might not have been "right". I wouldn't ever want my child let off the bus to someone who I had never met, and I'd worry that by taking these kids you'd communicate to the bus driver that he could let your kids off with strangers in the future.

Let's imagine that the kids had gotten on the wrong bus, instead of off at the wrong stop -- how would mom have known where to look? How would you have known where to find them? Put them in your car and driven them back to school? Taken them to your house and called the police? It could easily have become a nightmare.

Why not ask if they know their mom's cell phone number, and let them call. If she says "Oh, I'm on my way" then ask her if she wants you to keep them. If she says yes, then all is good. If they're too young to know her number then no way would I want the responsibility of keeping them, because how would you return them?

If you'd seen them even once, and had a good sense that they were in the right neighborhood, or if they could have told you how to walk to their house, or if someone else (the bus driver, the other mom there) could confirm that they were definitely at the right stop, then I'd feel differently, but in your case, I would have either put them on the bus, or had them call right then and there.

Having said that, as the mom, my anger would be directed at the driver and the system, not at you.


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## LisaSedai (Feb 27, 2009)

I think you did the right thing.


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## Porcelain Interior (Feb 8, 2008)

I think you acted in a very natural and maternal way.

I however think the bus driver made a HUGE mistake.

I'd be livid if my children were released to a stranger (which you admitted you didn't know them or their mom) at a bus stop. I'd be calling the school and probably saying some not so nice things.

Thank God you are a great person! I don't think you did anything wrong, it isn't your job to follow protocol, that's on the bus driver.


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## luv-my-boys (Dec 8, 2008)

I would be livid not at the OP but at the bus driver and the system. The school would have one irrate parent on their hands making a huge stink. First off I realize it is only the 3rd day of school, that is exactly why the bus driver should have some list or way of knowing what children get off where. Asking a child is not appropriate in any way and if the driver was unsure they should have kept the children on board or made them come back to the bus and call dispatch.
Our local school bus stops have # and a letter such as 12A meaning stop #12 bus A followed by the phone number of the bus dispatch center. The drivers have a manifest list that has all the stops # and what children get off. The drivers announce the bus stop # so smaller children know if its their stop. The parents can be connected to dispatch immediately by calling the # who can can find the appropriate bus and let the parent know if say the bus is running late or what not.

I would also have a problem that the driver entrusted the children to essentially a stranger (no offense OP) but seriously how the bus driver know if that person isnt some flake/dangerous or worse. That is a huge liability for the school among other things. What if the children were left out there and "started going home" only to have panic and then really get lost.

It seems to say the whole "what if's" could have been easily avoided if the bus driver had just made them come back to the bus and stay put.


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## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:

I don't think you were interfering. I think the situation was totally fine! I mean, yes, crazy stories are reported in the media. But I imagine that in 99% of situations another mom with kids in the same school waiting at a bus stop to help some lost girls call home is not going to result in fistfights and abduction charges. I choose not to live my life in fear of that other 1%. I don't think you were out of line!
I am with those who said you did GREAT and were so right.

I disagree with your dh, and I work with kids in a field in which I am trained never to be one-on-one with a child so would have hesitated before doing what you did (but it was a public space).

I think the world has gone off the deep end. Truly.

That said, I am also with those who said the bus driver really mishandled the situation. Can you imagine how panicked those kids felt when they realized the hill didn't look familiar? Poor kids! The bus driver should have gotten on the radio and double checked if the manifest wasn't on the bus.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *babymommy2* 
I am also with your husband. I think you did what you thought was right and luckily the mom was not more upset, but it was up to the bus drivers to not let those children off, at least not the 5 year old. The bus driver does not know you, and cannot entrust those children inot your care.

And while you are absolutely right, the bus driver DID let them off the bus and DID leave them in her care. What was she supposed to do, go on her merry way and leave them standing on the side of the road by themselves???

My Kindergärtner has been wearing a sticker with her name on it and an A under her name all week. The first day of school I couldn't figure out what the A stood for. I thought they had her last name wrong.







Turns out.. she goes to pick up spot A.







I can only imagine what they do with the bussed children if they are labeling the picked up children.


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## Lisa85 (May 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2cutiekitties* 
The kids were supposed to get off of the next stop... so if you put them back on the bus, then they would go to the next stop which maybe had mom waiting for them?

But how would the OP know that? She couldn't have, especially since the girls were somewhat sure it was their stop.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

I think YOU did fine, but I would be furious at the driver if my kids were let off at a stop that wasn't theirs with a strager. I took the school bus from 3rd grade through senior year in HS, and there was always a master list of who got off where and in the first weeks of school or with a substitute driver they were always careful about checking where people got off. I can't imagine him letting young kids off if there was even a doubt in anyone's mind about where they belonged.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

If it were my children I would be very thankful for the way you handled it. I htink you could not have made bettter decisions at any point in time. I am however appalled that the bus driver did not know what stop they were supposed to get off at. Here each child is checked on and off the bus the first few weeks of school.


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## Swan3 (Aug 5, 2008)

I think you did great, about what your DH said...unfortunately things are a LOT different for men in the same situation. Men have to be much more cautious about being left with children that aren't theirs because people are more likely to be suspicious of men's intentions...not saying it's right, but just how it goes.


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## LiamnEmma (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Swan3* 
I think you did great, about what your DH said...unfortunately things are a LOT different for men in the same situation. Men have to be much more cautious about being left with children that aren't theirs because people are more likely to be suspicious of men's intentions...not saying it's right, but just how it goes.

I agree, they do have to be more careful. I also don't think you did anything wrong. You acted like a mom and you took care of children who needed caring. The situation itself was less than optimal but you can hardly be faulted for that. Twice recently I've found myself with lost children and I've taken them by the hand until we found the appropriate person--one time the mother and the other an employee. Thank goodness for a person like you who is willing to put herself out there for the sake of a child rather than protect herself in spite of the need of a child.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Youngfrankenstein* 
IMO there were no "what if's" about this situation. If the OP wasn't there, the bus driver would NEVER let the kids off. He/She would have them stay on the bus and call the garage and confirm where they got off. It's not like they leave them at the side of the road.

But given that the kids were already off the bus, I think the OP did the best possible thing. I would not have felt comfortable (as a parent) literally dragging the children back onto the bus and I don't know what the bus driver would have done--- leave the bus full of kids to catch the two walking down the street?

That said, I would be really upset with the driver! I would also expect the parent to talk to the kids about NOT getting off the bus unless they see me.

Sadly, as well, I think a man would be in a different position. Even with kids, many people would react differently to arriving and having their kids waiting with a female stranger than a male stranger. DP is very aware of this with strange children and is always very aware of his body position w/respect to theirs (I am as well, but I think men do need to be more careful).


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Youngfrankenstein* 
If the OP wasn't there, the bus driver would NEVER let the kids off. He/She would have them stay on the bus and call the garage and confirm where they got off. It's not like they leave them at the side of the road.

The policy here is that if a parent or other responsible person isn't at the bus stop the child *will be left anyway.* The bus will not take the child back to the school, and will not wait with the child. So, here they actually do leave them on the side of the road.

While it sounds like the bus driver was being hesitant about letting the kids off, it doesn't sound like s/he was really trying all that hard to convince them they had to get back on the bus. The policy in the OPs town might be to just drop the kids off and no longer be responsible for them. In which case, at least the bus driver went to the trouble of asking someone who obviously was a mom to be aware of kids s/he thought might need someone to look after them.

So, if this happened with DS (who I currently drive to school since he hasn't started K yet) in the future I would be nothing but grateful to a mom like the OP who stuck around till she knew DS was safe.


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## 2cutiekitties (Dec 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lisa85* 
But how would the OP know that? She couldn't have, especially since the girls were somewhat sure it was their stop.

I just think the OP shouldnt be making ANY decisions. This is a bus driver problem. And I think the bus driver should care more. Sounds like she couldnt give a rats heiny about tiny little kids.


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## OkiMom (Nov 21, 2007)

Im one thats suprised that happened. From talking to my friends with school aged children I found out that they have IDs they have to have on to ride the bus. On the ID is their name, their parents name/number, their stop number and anyone else whos authorized to pick them up. Their parent HAS to be there for elementry age children or an authorized person. The number is checked anytime they let off a child to make sure they get off at the right stop. I figured thats just how they did bus systems now.


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## lonegirl (Oct 31, 2008)

I think you did the right thing, under the cirumstances. The little girls were adamant this was the right stop. The mom was clearly relieved and I think that what you did was good deed...much better than say letting the little girls wait by themselves. That being said the bus driver should know which stop was for the little girls and should be held accountable. I know it is unlikely he recognises all the kids within the first couple days, but he should have a list of names and addresses.


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## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

I'm shocked at how incompetent kids are now considered to be, and I suspect it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

When I was little, if a kid messed up on the bus ride they MESSED UP. Oh well, life is about learning and growing not being protected from every little decision. Get on the right bus and / or off at the right stop next time!

I think the OP was very loving to wait with the kids.

When I was in K, in a rural area, the system expected me to walk almost a mile home from the bus stop, alone. My parents lobbied hard with resistance for them to bring me to near the end of my driveway considering I'd turned 5 the first week of school. My mom did not have to stop her laundry (remember life before dryers? And dishwashers? And pre-prepared supermarket dinners) to be visible at the bus stop. I don't think such action was seriously contemplated. Moms did not hang out at the bus stop as a rule.


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## bebebradford (Apr 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pigpokey* 
I'm shocked at how incompetent kids are now considered to be, and I suspect it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

When I was little, if a kid messed up on the bus ride they MESSED UP. Oh well, life is about learning and growing not being protected from every little decision. Get on the right bus and / or off at the right stop next time!

I think the OP was very loving to wait with the kids.

When I was in K, in a rural area, the system expected me to walk almost a mile home from the bus stop, alone. My parents lobbied hard with resistance for them to bring me to near the end of my driveway considering I'd turned 5 the first week of school. My mom did not have to stop her laundry (remember life before dryers? And dishwashers? And pre-prepared supermarket dinners) to be visible at the bus stop. I don't think such action was seriously contemplated. Moms did not hang out at the bus stop as a rule.

WOW.. you blame the young elementary aged children? You expect them to know directions, and their stop? If children were so competent they wouldn't need adults for guidance. This was the responsibility of the bus driver. That's what the driver is being paid for.. to take children safely from point a to point b..


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## gcgirl (Apr 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little grey mare* 
As a bus driver, I say the situation was totally botched. The girls should not have gotten off the bus. The driver should have used the radio to call base to double check their stop or checked their route information/manifest.


I'm agreeing with this. Even if the bus driver knew the OP, he/she was basically letting the kids off with a stranger (to them) on the assumption that everything would be fine. Not very professional or safe.

However, OP, good job to you. I'm glad you stepped up and helped the little girls out.


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## gcgirl (Apr 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pigpokey* 
When I was in K, in a rural area, the system expected me to walk almost a mile home from the bus stop, alone. My parents lobbied hard with resistance for them to bring me to near the end of my driveway considering I'd turned 5 the first week of school. My mom did not have to stop her laundry (remember life before dryers? And dishwashers? And pre-prepared supermarket dinners) to be visible at the bus stop. I don't think such action was seriously contemplated. Moms did not hang out at the bus stop as a rule.

I am SO glad that schools/buses take better safety precautions and have more concern for kids nowadays. (OP's recent events notwithstanding.)


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## Amandamanda (Sep 29, 2007)

i havent read the whole thread, but WHY does the school/bus driver not have a list with all the kids and what stops they are supposed to get off at????


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## pauletoy (Aug 26, 2007)

Our school system does not allow students to get off the bus without the bus driver knowing for sure it is thier stop. The bus driver has a list of all the kids on thier bus and thier address. She also has the parents name and telephone number. The kids have tags on thier bookbags that has thier bus number on the front and the kids address on the back.

Sounds like your school needs a new system. I would probably call the board of education and find out what the policy is and if something could be done to avoid this in the future.

By the way, I think you did the best you could.


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## JL83 (Aug 7, 2009)

Porcelain Interior said:


> I however think the bus driver made a HUGE mistake.
> 
> 
> > I agree with this.
> ...


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## carmel23 (Jul 21, 2006)

no, you would never be charged with abducting the kids--the bus driver turned them over to your care.

I haven't read all the responses, but the mom was probably at the other stop--when the bus driver pulled up and saw here there he said "your girls got off at the earlier/previous stop--they're waiting with another kid's mom"

So she ran/walked to that stop.

You did the right thing. I bet they never get off at the wrong stop again.

We are the system.


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## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bebebradford* 
WOW.. you blame the young elementary aged children? You expect them to know directions, and their stop? If children were so competent they wouldn't need adults for guidance. This was the responsibility of the bus driver. That's what the driver is being paid for.. to take children safely from point a to point b..

The point is that I don't blame anyone in the OP's bus stop scenario. What the kids did was age appropriate. I do believe that after no more than a mishap or two, a typically able young elementary aged child can learn the way to and from school, and their stop. I have a couple of generations of automotive history to back me up on this -- children who did in fact, use school busses and public transportation as young elementary age children, sometimes with younger sibs in tow, successfully. We won't count when they used horses, because clearly the horses -- who are often cited as having the intelligence of about a five year old -- knew how to get home, and were of assistance.

I do see children these days who are not allowed to bike around the neighborhood, not allowed to bike to the store or their baseball practice, don't walk anywhere alone or in a group of children, who have no sense of direction. They do not pay attention to where the adults are driving and they could not get home if dropped a half-mile from their house. They have no sense of how far they are from any particular place. As teens, they cannot fathom walking a mile to the library and some of them think they are too good for the public bus.

I messed up riding the school bus once when I was 5. Second day of school. I did not make that particular mistake again.


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## Beene (May 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *babymommy2* 
I am also with your husband. I think you did what you thought was right and luckily the mom was not more upset, but it was up to the bus drivers to not let those children off, at least not the 5 year old. The bus driver does not know you, and cannot entrust those children inot your care. I would be pretty upset to know my bus driver left my children in the care of a stranger. If that had been my situation I weould have been waiting for my kids at the bus stop, if they didn't get off I would be asking the driver where they were, I would be calling the school to find out if they got on, if the driver didin't know (but he should). I would fully expect the driver to take them back to the school if he missed their stop, or if I was late, so the first place I would look at is the school, or follow the busroute myself and get my child off the bus had I been late. At our bus children who are in grade 1 and K are not to be let off the bus unless the designated person is there to take them, and they are to be returned to school, so knowing that, it is what I would expect and how I would try to find my child.

This. I think the bus driver is trained to drop kids off at the right place and if he doesn't know where that is, they stay in the safety of the bus. You are a good person, but he had no way of knowing that and basically dropped them off with a complete stranger. He would be responsible if something happened to them. He should have driven further up the hill to see if the girls recognized their house or contacted the school for their exact address.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pigpokey* 
I do see children these days who are not allowed to bike around the neighborhood, not allowed to bike to the store or their baseball practice, don't walk anywhere alone or in a group of children, who have no sense of direction. They do not pay attention to where the adults are driving and they could not get home if dropped a half-mile from their house. They have no sense of how far they are from any particular place. As teens, they cannot fathom walking a mile to the library and some of them think they are too good for the public bus.

In June I was in the hospital and DD (10) had a Girl Scout thing. One leader picked her up at my mom's. She is a mail carrier so the address was enough for her to find the house. A different leader dropped her off and I guess she didn't get the address because she figured DD knew how to get to Grandma's. DD's cell phone had died too. So anyways.. grandma lives a mile away from our house. She has lived there for the last four years.. and DD could not find the house. The leader had to drive all the way to our house and DD still had trouble finding it!!! Now I should say that DD has ADD but I would still think she should be able to find Grandma's from just about any point in town. It's a small town! Her street is off the main highway (just way far down.)

You can bet we have been working with DD on directions!


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## Needle in the Hay (Sep 16, 2006)

OP, I would be much more concerned about what your DH did to you than what you did at the bus stop. It sounds emotionally abusive to me the way he immediately found fault with what you did and then made you doubt yourself to the point of not sleeping well.


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## carmel23 (Jul 21, 2006)

Wow, I'm amazed at the level of fear and hostility there is towards other people in the community, and other parents at a child's school!

Are we so fearful of doing the wrong thing, that we can't step up and take care of some children for a few minutes in an open public space? Do we have to immediately assign blame on the bus driver, the children, the OP?

The kids were safe, they'll probably never get off at the wrong stop again, and one mom got to meet another parent in her neighborhood. All good things in my opinion.


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

You were wrong IMO. They are not your children and they are not your children and you probably caused that mother a great deal of panic when her kids did not come off the bus when expected. You didn't have any right to say you would watch the kids. The bus driver was also 100% wrong and should possibly lose his job IMO. If I found out a bus driver let my kids out at a stop when there was noone there to meet them except some random woman who admits she doesn't know them then I would be demanding his job on a platter!


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## Beene (May 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *carmel23* 
Wow, I'm amazed at the level of fear and hostility there is towards other people in the community, and other parents at a child's school!

Are we so fearful of doing the wrong thing, that we can't step up and take care of some children for a few minutes in an open public space? Do we have to immediately assign blame on the bus driver, the children, the OP?

The kids were safe, they'll probably never get off at the wrong stop again, and one mom got to meet another parent in her neighborhood. All good things in my opinion.









Yes, it turned out really well, and it helps if you can afford to live in a community where you can trust 99.9% of the people. Unfortunately, the rest of the world is not like that. I live in a metropolitan area and I would be LIVID if my kid was dropped off with someone I didn't have a clue about. In today's world you just have to be sure your kids are supervised by someone that is trained to do so, or someone that you personally know and trust. Too many things happen to children for me to feel all neighborly and trusty all the time. I wish it wasn't like this and it is not the way I was raised, but....c'est la vie.

I'm glad everything turned out well. I still think your DH had a point, but he was wrong to blame you and not the school's policy.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
You were wrong IMO. They are not your children and they are not your children and you probably caused that mother a great deal of panic when her kids did not come off the bus when expected. You didn't have any right to say you would watch the kids. The bus driver was also 100% wrong and should possibly lose his job IMO. If I found out a bus driver let my kids out at a stop when there was noone there to meet them except some random woman who admits she doesn't know them then I would be demanding his job on a platter!

OP, you can't win for loose. Something you do will always make someone unhappy. Continue to follow your heart and then you know that at least you always did what you felt was right.


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## Epona (Jul 20, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *childsplay* 
So I tell the bus driver not to worry I'll hang out here with them until the Mom arrives . (the Mom being late is completely understandable to me, as it's happened to me numerous times before...)
So we all go over and sit on the grass on the side of the road careful to be highly visable for the Mom. At this point one of the girl's starts crying a bit saying she thinks she made a big mistake, because now the hill doesn't look familiar.
Ok say I, no problem we'll sort it out and find your Mom. I ask the child for her phone number, which she rhymes off perfectly. I call her house and leave a message saying who I was, where we are, etc...
In total we're there about 10 minutes when the Mom comes running down the sidewalk. Turns out they were supposed to get off at the next stop (which looks very much like this one)
The Mom was happy to see them and thanked me and we chatted for a bit then went on our way.


It's what I and my husband both would have done.


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## JL83 (Aug 7, 2009)

I'm having a hard time putting the attitude on thread, that the OP was right to watch random kids she didn't know, with the general attitude on MDC that we should be VERY selective of who we leave our kids with.

Think about this from the other side. If a mom came on here and said that she'd expected her kids to get off the bus and it came and went with no sight of them. And then she'd finally gone home and listened to her messages only to find out that some stranger had offered to watch them at a different stop, the response would be entirely different. People would be all over the bus driver/company and telling her to call the school and make a fuss.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Because the bus driver could very well have just left the kids there. I am sure that is what would have happened here..I know it is what would have happened when I was in school. She was just looking out for some kids who got off at the wrong stop.


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
Because the bus driver could very well have just left the kids there. I am sure that is what would have happened here..I know it is what would have happened when I was in school. She was just looking out for some kids who got off at the wrong stop.

No, she TOLD the driver to let them off with her. Her most likely would have kept them on the bus but this woman was assuring him that she would take responsibility for them.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
No, she TOLD the driver to let them off with her. Her most likely would have kept them on the bus but this woman was assuring him that she would take responsibility for them.

You are assuming the bus driver would have chased down the kids and made them get back on the bus. Remember the older girl was already walking down the street. When I went to school they would have just let them go. She just told the bus driver she would look after them til mom got there.

I just don't understand why everyone is so upset. Should she have walked off and let the kids stand there by themselves???


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pigpokey* 
The point is that I don't blame anyone in the OP's bus stop scenario. What the kids did was age appropriate. I do believe that after no more than a mishap or two, a typically able young elementary aged child can learn the way to and from school, and their stop.

All the double-checks and cross-checks are in place because of the kids who didn't make it home safely.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JL83* 
I'm having a hard time putting the attitude on thread, that the OP was right to watch random kids she didn't know, with the general attitude on MDC that we should be VERY selective of who we leave our kids with.

Think about this from the other side. If a mom came on here and said that she'd expected her kids to get off the bus and it came and went with no sight of them. And then she'd finally gone home and listened to her messages only to find out that some stranger had offered to watch them at a different stop, the response would be entirely different. People would be all over the bus driver/company and telling her to call the school and make a fuss.

Um, yes? People are saying that they'd call the school and make a fuss if it had been their kids left. But the OP isn't the mom who had her kids left by the bus driver. She's the, fortunately, nice mom who stayed with the kids and called their mom so she knew where they were. The mom has the OP's number in her phone and can call her up if she needs a witness to what happened for a court case, or if it gets to that point, the mom's lawyer will be able to locate the OP quite easily.

There isn't a conflict here. You don't leave your kids with random people on purpose, but if it happens by accident, it's a blessing that there are people like the OP in the world.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pigpokey* 
They do not pay attention to where the adults are driving and they could not get home if dropped a half-mile from their house. They have no sense of how far they are from any particular place. As teens, they cannot fathom walking a mile to the library and some of them think they are too good for the public bus.

Okay, that is ridiculous, but I don't see what it has to do with a five year old not knowing that the bus stop that looks just like her stop and is right by her stop is the wrong place.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bebebradford* 
WOW.. you blame the young elementary aged children? You expect them to know directions, and their stop? If children were so competent they wouldn't need adults for guidance. This was the responsibility of the bus driver. That's what the driver is being paid for.. to take children safely from point a to point b..

Actually, I agree with the PP. I DO expect my kids to know directions and their stop. Kids live up to expections, and down to over-management.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Beene* 
Yes, it turned out really well, and it helps if you can afford to live in a community where you can trust 99.9% of the people.

I believe that you can trust 99.9% of the people in pretty much every community. It's just our paranoia and media-fed fear that makes us think otherwise.


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## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
Okay, that is ridiculous, but I don't see what it has to do with a five year old not knowing that the bus stop that looks just like her stop and is right by her stop is the wrong place.

Guess what? Next bus ride she'll get off at the right stop. It doesn't look *just* like her stop. She may ask the driver for assurance, but she will pay attention to little things ... colors of houses ... configurations of trees ... street signs ... noises.

I do not think infantalizing children is good for their minds or spirits.


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## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
All the double-checks and cross-checks are in place because of the kids who didn't make it home safely.









Then they've *completely failed* because the most dangerous place for a child to be is in a car and this societal attitude that you can't trust anyone and kids are infants and/or in constant abduction risk is putting them in cars. Even if they ride the bus, moms are often driving to the stops to wait.

Oh, and they're getting really fat to boot, which is hardly safe. What's the obesity stat on US schoolchildren now? 30%?


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## Beene (May 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
You are assuming the bus driver would have chased down the kids and made them get back on the bus. Remember the older girl was already walking down the street. When I went to school they would have just let them go. She just told the bus driver she would look after them til mom got there.

I just don't understand why everyone is so upset. Should she have walked off and let the kids stand there by themselves???

Te busdriver would NOT have left them there with no adult supervision. No way, no how. He would have gone to prison for that and it is in his contract with the school. Times are different now than they were when you were growing up. Schools now have incredibly vigilant policies about this. That's why the busdriver messed up leaving them with a stranger.


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## Beene (May 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
I believe that you can trust 99.9% of the people in pretty much every community. It's just our paranoia and media-fed fear that makes us think otherwise.

Ummm, yeah. Maybe twenty years ago. Not today. No way no how. Back when we trusted all the neighbors (and that is a time during which I was growing up), kids were getting raped in our own neighbors' basements by priests, for goodness' sake and no one said anything about it until a couple of years ago. I'm sorry, but I do NOT trust strangers unless they are no longer strangers. If I lived somewhere people were open to having a supportive community I would feel differently. Suburbs and country living are good for that because people know each other and are often even dependent on each other. I live in a metropolitan area where I don't see the same person from day to day in my own building. I would be so very panicked if I couldnt find my child in that setting.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Beene* 
Ummm, yeah. Maybe twenty years ago. Not today. No way no how. Back when we trusted all the neighbors (and that is a time during which I was growing up), kids were getting raped in our own neighbors' basements by priests, for goodness' sake and no one said anything about it until a couple of years ago. I'm sorry, but I do NOT trust strangers unless they are no longer strangers. If I lived somewhere people were open to having a supportive community I would feel differently. Suburbs and country living are good for that because people know each other and are often even dependent on each other. I live in a metropolitan area where I don't see the same person from day to day in my own building. I would be so very panicked if I couldnt find my child in that setting.

believe it or not, most people are NOT molesters/abductors. A good book you might find helpful is "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin Debecker. It is usually people the child knows that hurts them - strangers aer actually pretty safe.


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## Beene (May 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
believe it or not, most people are NOT molesters/abductors. A good book you might find helpful is "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin Debecker. It is usually people the child knows that hurts them - strangers aer actually pretty safe.

Ummm. I DO believe it. I in no way think that MOST people are molesters/abusers. As for a stranger's sense of what is safe for children...umm...yeah. Not always. I was just pointing out that in some communities, this attitude works. In mine, UNFORTUNATELY, it does not. I expect the school to have certain policies to make sure my children are not left somewhere I dont know with someone I don't know. I am not teaching my son to be AFRAID of people or strangers. We LOVE people in this family. Will I teach him to not go off with strangers? You bet your pants I will.


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## Youngfrankenstein (Jun 3, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pigpokey* 
Guess what? Next bus ride she'll get off at the right stop. It doesn't look *just* like her stop. She may ask the driver for assurance, but she will pay attention to little things ... colors of houses ... configurations of trees ... street signs ... noises.

I do not think infantalizing children is good for their minds or spirits.

I really think this attitude is a bit mean. I consider my kids "mostly" responsible, but there is a tiny chance my 8-year-old could KNOW where he was. My brother lives around the block and he rides his bike there all the time. If he goes the other way, he gets "lost". He will turn around if he thinks it doesn't look familiar.

He is gifted and aware but that isn't his strength. I just think all kids are different and there can be a huge difference in maturity and ability from 8-10 years old even. Not to mention a 5th grader vs. a 3rd grader.

I can't imagine anyone thinks the OP is in the wrong here.


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
I believe that you can trust 99.9% of the people in pretty much every community. It's just our paranoia and media-fed fear that makes us think otherwise.

Yeah, when some attempts to kidnap your child you might not be believing that statistic. I had it happen and like hell will I trust 99.9% of the people I encounter. Was it just my media-fear that had me almost lose my son?


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pigpokey* 
Then they've *completely failed* because the most dangerous place for a child to be is in a car and this societal attitude that you can't trust anyone and kids are infants and/or in constant abduction risk is putting them in cars. Even if they ride the bus, moms are often driving to the stops to wait.

*Oh, and they're getting really fat to boot, which is hardly safe.* What's the obesity stat on US schoolchildren now? 30%?

What in the world does this have to do with anything? A little girl near my city was recently kidnapped and murdered because her parents let her walk home from school alone at 8 years old. It wasn't even a big city. And like I said in my previous post my son was almost abducted when he was 2. You can stick your fingers in your ears and go "la la la" all you want but it doesn't make the world as safe as you are thinking it is. Hopefully you will never learn that the hard way.


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
believe it or not, most people are NOT molesters/abductors. A good book you might find helpful is "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin Debecker. It is usually people the child knows that hurts them - *strangers aer actually pretty safe*.

I think you misunderstood the lesson.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
What in the world does this have to do with anything? A little girl near my city was recently kidnapped and murdered because her parents let her walk home from school alone at 8 years old. It wasn't even a big city. And like I said in my previous post my son was almost abducted when he was 2. You can stick your fingers in your ears and go "la la la" all you want but it doesn't make the world as safe as you are thinking it is. Hopefully you will never learn that the hard way.

That little girl wasn't kidnapped and murdered because her parents let her walk home from school alone, she was murdered because an evil person wanted to murder.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
I think you misunderstood the lesson.

I'm sure I did not. Strangers are safe. People in general are safe. Being afraid of every stranger does not really equip you or your child to recognize true danger when it presents itself.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
What in the world does this have to do with anything? A little girl near my city was recently kidnapped and murdered because her parents let her walk home from school alone at 8 years old. It wasn't even a big city. And like I said in my previous post my son was almost abducted when he was 2. You can stick your fingers in your ears and go "la la la" all you want but it doesn't make the world as safe as you are thinking it is. Hopefully you will never learn that the hard way.

I am sorry for what happened to your son. I can't imagine how horrifying that must be. But just because that happened doesn't make the world as dangerous as you are thinking it is either. Most kids are NOT abducted. Living in fear is a horrible, dangerous thing.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
That little girl wasn't kidnapped and murdered because her parents let her walk home from school alone, she was murdered because an evil person wanted to murder.

Exactly.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
What in the world does this have to do with anything? *A little girl near my city was recently kidnapped and murdered because her parents let her walk home from school alone at 8 years old*. It wasn't even a big city. And like I said in my previous post my son was almost abducted when he was 2. You can stick your fingers in your ears and go "la la la" all you want but it doesn't make the world as safe as you are thinking it is. Hopefully you will never learn that the hard way.

That sounds an awful lot like blaming the victim. Her parents did nothing wrong. Unfortunately there is evit in this world. Allowing your school aged child to walk to and from school in not it.


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
That little girl wasn't kidnapped and murdered because her parents let her walk home from school alone, she was murdered because an evil person wanted to murder.

Yeah, that's kind of my point.







If she hadn't been walking alone, the people would not have been able to kidnap her.


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## Calidris (Apr 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
That little girl wasn't kidnapped and murdered because her parents let her walk home from school alone, she was murdered because an evil person wanted to murder.

That's the problem with what-ifs. Somewhere a child got killed in a car accident on the way home from school, and some parents are wondering why they didn't just let him walk that day.


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
That sounds an awful lot like blaming the victim. Her parents did nothing wrong. Unfortunately there is evit in this world. Allowing your school aged child to walk to and from school in not it.

I disagree. Yes, I do believe her parents are partly to blame because I do not believe an 8 year old should be walking home alone. You are completely proving my point in what you are saying. You say there is evil in the world - yes, there is. So why in the world would you not do everything you can to keep that evil from your child?!?


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## Beene (May 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
I'm sure I did not. Strangers are safe. People in general are safe. Being afraid of every stranger does not really equip you or your child to recognize true danger when it presents itself.

Riiiiiiiight. Because danger is always so very apparent when you aren't afraid of anything or anyone....Do you teach your children that kidnappers and molesters have fangs or wear special "bad guy" badges? Think what you will, but we have a right to teach our children the difference between unfounded fear and the need to be careful. You are saying that if you don't trust everyone you don't know or believe that everyone is "good", then you are teaching fear? That's reality. We don't fear it. We live in it.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
Yeah, that's kind of my point.







If she hadn't been walking alone, the people would not have been able to kidnap her.

Bad things happen, even when you think you are doing everything perfectly. It was a reasonable action (I can't even say risk) to take - walking home from school. It's hard to understand statistics when your child is part of the 1%. But it's like saying, I breastfed and my child still got sick, so breastfeeding isn't good for babies" of course some babies will still get sick. _Statistically,_ though, breastfed babies are healthier.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
I disagree. Yes, I do believe her parents are partly to blame because I do not believe an 8 year old should be walking home alone. You are completely proving my point in what you are saying. You say there is evil in the world - yes, there is. So why in the world would you not do everything you can to keep that evil from your child?!?

There is also so much that is wonderful. And you CAN'T keep your child away from all evil. It is impossible.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Beene* 
Riiiiiiiight. Because danger is always so very apparent when you aren't afraid of anything or anyone....Do you teach your children that kidnappers and molesters have fangs or wear special "bad guy" badges? Think what you will, but we have a right to teach our children the difference between unfounded fear and the need to be careful. You are saying that if you don't trust everyone you don't know or believe that everyone is "good", then you are teaching fear? That's reality. We don't fear it. We live in it.

HUH? No, I don't teach my children that bad guys have fangs,e tc. Did you read the debecker book? Of course I haev told my kids about way they could be hurt. But I don't expect them to walk around with major anxiety about the kidnapper who could be around every corner, because, honestly, its just not very likely that they will be kidnapped and murdered by a stranger.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Beene* 
Riiiiiiiight. Because danger is always so very apparent when you aren't afraid of anything or anyone....Do you teach your children that kidnappers and molesters have fangs or wear special "bad guy" badges? Think what you will, but we have a right to teach our children the difference between unfounded fear and the need to be careful. *You are saying that if you don't trust everyone you don't know or believe that everyone is "good", then you are teaching fear*? That's reality. We don't fear it. We live in it.

Of course not everyone is good, or deserves to be trusted. But some posters are acting like everyon is bad, and NOONE can be trusted. As a matter of fact, someoene did post, "I don't trust any strangers". Thats what i was responding to.


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## changes (Jun 4, 2009)

IMHO you were just the thoughtful helpful friendly mom and not the person to be judged or held responsible for the situation. You were there with 5 (young) kids offering to wait to help the two 'lost' girls. Chapeau!

I had a very similar situation and same reaction by dh. As concerning the nature of the situation I was in, ppl might even have more fierce reactions but I'm still convinced I did the thing that was the best to do while everyone else was merely standing by...

Our supermarket has a small indoor play area for age 3-6 next to their own fast food place. The play section is enclosed, there's always one shop staff supervising, and it's explicitly signed that parents are NOT to leave their children unattended, and that the shop nor the staff supervising are responsible for the children. The staff member mainly functions as a helper/superviser. There's an area where the parents can wait and watch the kids play, and communicate whit them when needed.

I've been there often with my kids (yes, often being bored but happy since my kids were having fun) and it happened many times that either parent(s) went of to order meals (from where they could not supervise their children even though it's 'close'), even occasionally some who intended on going shopping while leaving their kid at the playground. On few occasions the staff member was clueless what to do when there was an upset child and obviously no parent waiting at the fence. It happened that she had to, very reluctantly, take the child and look for the parent in the restaurant area, to find them leaving the play area for a short while (which is sure against job regulations).
One time there was a girl who happened to walk out of the room and no-one but the attendant had seen her go out. She ran and brought the girl back and it seemed her parents had 'left her there', staff member relieved she could prevent her from being lost. Later, the girl said she needed to go to the toilet urgently (about 3y old), the attendant couldn't leave and/or help her, no parent of the girl, first was waiting for her parent to show up, then I offered to look for the parent in the dining area while asking the attendant to pls make sure MY kids stayed there and to tell them I'd be right back (as I said come there often). We did not find the parents while standing right outside the play area. I sure wouldnt take her around the whole restaurant. Then the girl told me her parents actually went shopping! Wow! Then she said in tears and worry she really needed to 'go'. I did not know what else to do than to go back in, check with attendant and bystanding parents that I'd take her to the toilet then (right nextdoor) if there was no other way. I had to come back for her shoes which we forgot. Then to the loo. I did not feel super comfortable but my mom's heart could not let this girl wet herself because her mom wouldn't care!! Anyway, it was hardly in time. I brought her back, only got positive looks. Then all of a sudden the mom had showed up and taken her out so quickly that we almost hadn't noticed and the attendant hadn't even had the chance to talk to eher about leaving th child unattended. Us all having the 'poor girl' nod...

My dh also was very upset that I took a girl I didn't know to the toilet. I know if you think of worst case scenario it could be tricky, if you think of it as a story told only. He didnt make me feel good about my descision to help. But I know at that moment I DID the good thing for that girl. She was so lost and lonely and she had experienced there was at least SOMeone who cared. Yes, in a multiple choice question I may think more than twice and say not to do this. But real life has feelings to it, too.

I've also run after a boy on a trike who went around the corner of a street, a street going steep downhill, been running and running my heart out to get him. And luckily there had not been a passing car but few more seconds and he would have smashed a parked car or got killed whereever his adventure would end...

Sometimes you just act and thinking is not the best to do first, sometimes you may have thought better before acting, but the line is not always clear when it's 'urgent' to make a descision.


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## bebebradford (Apr 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
No, she TOLD the driver to let them off with her. Her most likely would have kept them on the bus but this woman was assuring him that she would take responsibility for them.

NO the original post said the kids were already off, and the bus driver was looking unsure. She THEN said she would wait.


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## bebebradford (Apr 4, 2008)

It's funny how some people can see a good innocent deed, and praise a person.. yet there's always a few who will find fault.

OP YOU ROCK MAMA!! Come be my neighbor any day!







:


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bebebradford* 
It's funny how some people can see a good innocent deed, and praise a person.. yet there's always a few who will find fault.

OP YOU ROCK MAMA!! Come be my neighbor any day!







:

I think the difference is in assumptions about what the bus driver would have done if the OP hadn't stepped in.

Would the bus driver have just let the girls go and driven off? (where I live yes.) People, who believe this, think the OP did the right thing.

Would the bus driver have taken them back too school? Those, who believe this, are more neutral on the subject.

Would the bus driver have radioed in and dropped the girls at the correct spot? Those, who think this would have happened, disagree with what the OP did.


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## lajn (Jun 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
Bad things happen, even when you think you are doing everything perfectly. It was a reasonable action (I can't even say risk) to take - walking home from school. It's hard to understand statistics when your child is part of the 1%. But it's like saying, I breastfed and my child still got sick, so breastfeeding isn't good for babies" of course some babies will still get sick. _Statistically,_ though, breastfed babies are healthier.


Just read this here earlier this morning:

If you wanted your child to be abducted, statistically you would have to leave your child unattended for 750,000 years for it to happen.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lajn* 
Just read this here earlier this morning:

If you wanted your child to be abducted, statistically you would have to leave your child unattended for 750,000 years for it to happen.

Thank you


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## GoestoShow (Jul 15, 2009)

.


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## Beene (May 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoestoShow* 
Oh my gosh! My son isn't anywhere near kindergarten yet, but I would not want him to have a tag with all that personal information on his backpack. No way, no how. In my opinion, that has a chance of being more dangerous --- anyone could see that tag. And while I don't have a everyone-stranger-is-dangerous attitude, I do proceed with caution.

I agree. But this gave me a funny visual of little kids running around with printed Mapquest directions hanging from their bags. lol. My imagination got away with that one....


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## Quinalla (May 23, 2005)

I think you did fine, though if I were that Mom I would be complaining a bit to the school. It is one thing if later in the year a child gets off at the wrong stop, but day 3? They should have a system in place to prevent that from happening. While I can see your DH's point that the Mom might have gone off on you so it might be better to let the "system" handle it, he is definitely overreacting with the abduction charges and what not


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## seaheroine (Dec 24, 2004)

I think you 100% did the right thing, and I would be really grateful that you'd watched out for my children.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Actually, the kids are probably safer with some random mom than with the bus driver.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pigpokey* 
Then they've *completely failed* because the most dangerous place for a child to be is in a car and this societal attitude that you can't trust anyone and kids are infants and/or in constant abduction risk is putting them in cars. Even if they ride the bus, moms are often driving to the stops to wait.

Oh, and they're getting really fat to boot, which is hardly safe. What's the obesity stat on US schoolchildren now? 30%?

Abduction? Yeah, that's a worry. I was actually thinking of traffic.


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
Abduction? Yeah, that's a worry. I was actually thinking of traffic.

This is why I would be happier with a stranger taking resposibility of my child than him wondering off on his own trying to find home.

One day I lost track of DS at IKEA, and I was so grateful that a lady took his hand and led him back to where he could find me, instead of him wondering out to the parking lot or into one of the warehouse areas with the fork lifts. I really wasn't worried the lady and man she was with would do anything or take him, but parking lots scare me.


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lajn* 
Just read this here earlier this morning:

If you wanted your child to be abducted, statistically you would have to leave your child unattended for 750,000 years for it to happen.

Pardon my language, but screw statistics! That statistic is garbage when it's your child. When my son was almost abducted my baby girl fell down and hit her head. I was tending to her for less than 2 minutes. TWO MINUTES and this man had my son almost out of the building. You can believe all the "statistics" you want (which are absolutely false), I will go on believing EXPERIENCE!


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
Pardon my language, but screw statistics! That statistic is garbage when it's your child. When my son was almost abducted my baby girl fell down and hit her head. I was tending to her for less than 2 minutes. TWO MINUTES and this man had my son almost out of the building. You can believe all the "statistics" you want (which are absolutely false), I will go on believing EXPERIENCE!

again, i am sorry for your experience. but just because you are part of the 1% does not make the 99% untrue (in any statistic).


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## carmel23 (Jul 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Beene* 
Yes, it turned out really well, and it helps if you can afford to live in a community where you can trust 99.9% of the people. Unfortunately, the rest of the world is not like that. I live in a metropolitan area and I would be LIVID if my kid was dropped off with someone I didn't have a clue about. In today's world you just have to be sure your kids are supervised by someone that is trained to do so, or someone that you personally know and trust. Too many things happen to children for me to feel all neighborly and trusty all the time. I wish it wasn't like this and it is not the way I was raised, but....c'est la vie.

I'm glad everything turned out well. I still think your DH had a point, but he was wrong to blame you and not the school's policy.

I *DO* live in a major city and it isn't the nicest part of the city. And no, not everyone is all neighborly and trusting all the time. But paranoia doesn't help and cannot replace street-smarts. The two things aren't the same.

And most children are abused/hurt by people they already know--not strangers.


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## carmel23 (Jul 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
I'm sure I did not. Strangers are safe. People in general are safe. Being afraid of every stranger does not really equip you or your child to recognize true danger when it presents itself.









:

In fact I tell my kids if they get separated from me somewhere to look for a mom with little kids in a stroller, and she will help you find me. Forget the security guard, forget the person in uniform. Go for the moms. We are the system.


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## Beene (May 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *carmel23* 
But paranoia doesn't help and cannot replace street-smarts. The two things aren't the same.

What you call paranoia to me IS street smarts. I don't advocate paranoia, but I am all for not trusting everyone thinking that for the most part people are good and helpful. I have no reason to believe that a stranger will harm my child on a good day, but MY experience and my "street smarts", not statistics (which, by the way, are the same media you accuse of creating paranoia) tell me that strangers aren't always that helpful or kind, either. Since when is not wanting your kids dropped off in the care of a stranger when you are expecting to meet them elsewhere "paranoia"? It seems perfectly reasonable to me still.


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## Beene (May 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *carmel23* 







:

In fact I tell my kids if they get separated from me somewhere to look for a mom with little kids in a stroller, and she will help you find me. Forget the security guard, forget the person in uniform. Go for the moms. We are the system.

Almost everyone is a mom. Having kids or a stroller doesn't make you qualified to watch out for a child's safety just like it doesn't automatically make you kind or mentally healthy. I know PLENTY of psychopathic moms I wouldn't EVER let have my kids for a second.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Beene* 
Almost everyone is a mom. Having kids or a stroller doesn't make you qualified to watch out for a child's safety just like it doesn't automatically make you kind or mentally healthy. I know PLENTY of psychopathic moms I wouldn't EVER let have my kids for a second.

right. there are plenty of psycho moms. But what's a better alternative? Tell them to look for someone in a uniform? and employee? Not safer, IMO. I would (and have) told them to look for another mommy to get help.


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## carmel23 (Jul 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Beene* 
What you call paranoia to me IS street smarts. I don't advocate paranoia, but I am all for not trusting everyone thinking that for the most part people are good and helpful. I have no reason to believe that a stranger will harm my child on a good day, but MY experience and my "street smarts", not statistics (which, by the way, are the same media you accuse of creating paranoia) tell me that strangers aren't always that helpful or kind, either. Since when is not wanting your kids dropped off in the care of a stranger when you are expecting to meet them elsewhere "paranoia"? It seems perfectly reasonable to me still.

I haven't accused the media or anyone else of anything. I was just amazed that people are so distrustful of each other--no statistics here.

Look, the bus driver probably thought that the mom of the kids was either at this stop and running late, or at the next stop (which she was) and would tell her that the kids were waiting at they next stop.

We don't have to read every child abduction story into the situation. He asked the mom to watch the kids, she did. In a public place with other kids in a stroller, and her own kid who got off the same bus.









Of course the mom didn't want the kids to be dropped off at the wrong stop, that is silly. Of course no one ever wants children to make a mistake and get things wrong, but -- they often do. And it isn't the end of the world.

Paranoia is not wanting your child to stand on a street corner with another mom from your kids school for five minutes while you walk over their to get them-- and to think that every interaction with someone that you haven't personally selected and pre-approved is dangerous for them. The kids made the wrong call, they're kids after all. And yes, kids should be allowed to make some mistakes within reasonable boundaries.

I choose to not instill in my kids the idea that the world is this horrible, dangerous place and that everyone besides myself is a psychotic, incompetent person, or that it is the end of the world if they make a mistake.


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## Beene (May 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *carmel23* 
Paranoia is not wanting your child to stand on a street corner with another mom from your kids school for five minutes while you walk over their to get them-- and to think that every interaction with someone that you haven't personally selected and pre-approved is dangerous for them. The kids made the wrong call, they're kids after all. And yes, kids should be allowed to make some mistakes within reasonable boundaries.

I choose to not instill in my kids the idea that the world is this horrible, dangerous place and that everyone besides myself is a psychotic, incompetent person, or that it is the end of the world if they make a mistake.

I agree with you there. The kids are NEVER to blame (as, shockingly, some pps have posted) and I would never teach my children that anyone besides me is horrible and the world is terrible. I stand by my view that this was a terrible incompetence of the bus driver and a failure of the school. I think the OP did a great job handling it under the circumstances. I wouldn't flame her for handling it so well at all. Luckily she was there to help when the busdriver did something wrong.


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## Beene (May 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Drummer's Wife* 
right. there are plenty of psycho moms. But what's a better alternative? Tell them to look for someone in a uniform? and employee? Not safer, IMO. I would (and have) told them to look for another mommy to get help.

You bring up an interesting point and one that I have no opinion on as of yet (my 6 mo. is hard to lose








), but it makes me want to give him a cell phone just in case. lol. It may not work with all the drool in an emergency, though...


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## changes (Jun 4, 2009)

If I would be the mom of the 'lost' girls I would indeed have a word with the school about the incident. And I would be grateful for the mom who had the common sense to stay with my kids and inform me where they were waiting.

In my neighbourhood there was a pre-school kid who fell asleep on the bus, and no-one had noticed, not the teacher accompanying them (!) and helping the other kids out of the bus, and not the driver when parking the bus somewhere outside the school (hired bus).
The child ended up alone in the parked bus. When he woke up he could open the door and get out. And luckily the kid (4) at that age had enough common sense to approach a nearby newspaper stand and ask for help. They called the police to help out. The child could tell his name, his parents names and part of the address. The police had to call the mother to say her child had been 'lost'. They had called the school who hadn't even noticed a child was not there. It all ended well but it's pretty bad overall. The child is a VERY sensitive being so it surprises me he's been dealing extraordinary well with the experience.

I wouldn't dare to count on bus drivers either unless they are specially trained/instructed on how to deal with the children on the bus. And in this case the driver needs a clear policy to hold on to for such situations.
I would think the bus in the OP's situation would also have an accompanying teacher on it? In that case I think the teacher is even more responsible for the incident than the driver, I think it should be up to the driver to drive and stop at a safe stop and to a teacher to make sure everything is going fine along the ride and during the stops. And the school to make sure employees know what's included in their tasks and to make sure everything is double-checked to avoid these kind of situations.


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *changes* 
In my neighbourhood there was a pre-school kid who fell asleep on the bus, and no-one had noticed, not the teacher accompanying them (!) and helping the other kids out of the bus, and not the driver when parking the bus somewhere outside the school (hired bus).
The child ended up alone in the parked bus. When he woke up he could open the door and get out. And luckily the kid (4) at that age had enough common sense to approach a nearby newspaper stand and ask for help. They called the police to help out. The child could tell his name, his parents names and part of the address. The police had to call the mother to say her child had been 'lost'. They had called the school who hadn't even noticed a child was not there. It all ended well but it's pretty bad overall. The child is a VERY sensitive being so it surprises me he's been dealing extraordinary well with the experience.

A similar thing happened a number of years ago around here (not in our town but in our metropolitan area) and it didn't end well. The weather was bad that day, and the child died of exposure







. Now all the school bus drivers are required to walk the full length of the bus when they park it, and put a notice that the bus has been check in the rear window.


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## Mandynee22 (Nov 20, 2006)

I think you were totally fine. Good thing the kids knew their number but even if they hadn't, the school would have. Good for you for sticking around and "not my problem"ing the whole situation.
I'm pretty sure a charge of abduction wouldn't stick... since you called the mother and told them where the kids were LOL


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## Tizzy (Mar 16, 2007)

Carmel23 - OUCH! Thanks for personally attacking what I do for a living.

Just like any other job (including teachers!), some people do it to the best of their ability, others don't.
Some bus companies have stricter regulations than others. There are way too many factors to consider for such a generalization to be made.

I often get criticised for NOT bending the rules. It's not just my job at stake if I drop a young child of when someone is not home, or if I let them off with a stranger or at the wrong stop etc. If something happened to that child after I dropped them off, and I could have easily prevented it by arguing with the child and making them stay on the bus a few extra minutes, I'd feel pretty awful.

eepster described another rule we have here, we actually have to press a button at the rear of the bus before leaving the bus - otherwise the horn will go off. That way we are forced to make sure every child is off.

I think, with anything else in life, if you think something should be done in regards to your child(ren)'s school, then YOU have to speak up. If you see unsafe practices with the bus, speak up and talk to the school, school board or bus company.


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## kitten18 (Aug 4, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eepster* 
I think the difference is in assumptions about what the bus driver would have done if the OP hadn't stepped in.

Would the bus driver have just let the girls go and driven off? (where I live yes.) People, who believe this, think the OP did the right thing.

Would the bus driver have taken them back too school? Those, who believe this, are more neutral on the subject.

Would the bus driver have radioed in and dropped the girls at the correct spot? Those, who think this would have happened, disagree with what the OP did.

The bus driver, the one who was legally responsible for the girls, could have still done any of those things even if the OP had not volunteered to watch them.

OP - I think you did a great thing, nothing wrong at all.


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little grey mare* 
we actually have to press a button at the rear of the bus before leaving the bus - otherwise the horn will go off. That way we are forced to make sure every child is off.

Man, I wish I lived in you school district. Never just leaving kindergarteners alone on the side of the road, buttons that make the horn honk instead of little cardboard signs that may just have been sitting there for months. School bus driver who are moms, instead of the guy, who looked about 25 yo and came to pick up the boy who lived in our house, before we bought it and the boy moved away to a different city, twice.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
Actually, I agree with the PP. I DO expect my kids to know directions and their stop. Kids live up to expectiatons, and down to over-management.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *pigpokey* 
Guess what? Next bus ride she'll get off at the right stop. It doesn't look *just* like her stop. She may ask the driver for assurance, but she will pay attention to little things ... colors of houses ... configurations of trees ... street signs ... noises.

I do not think infantalizing children is good for their minds or spirits.


I agree with this in general. I also think what the OP did was considerate and kind and that the mother was very happy she did so. I do think that if everyone wants to know what that bus driver would have done, then perhaps the OP should ask the bus driver the next time she sees him/her. That would be much better than making assumptions and then reacting to those uninformed conclusions.


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## carmel23 (Jul 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Purity♥Lake~* 
I agree with this in general. I also think what the OP did was considerate and kind and that the mother was very happy she did so. I do think that if everyone wants to know what that bus driver would have done, then perhaps the OP should ask the bus driver the next time she sees him/her. That would be much better than making assumptions and then reacting to those uninformed conclusions.









:


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## QueenOfTheMeadow (Mar 25, 2005)

I have removed numerous posts. Per the UA:

Quote:

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