# How old it too old for a child to be in a booster seat?



## ChrisCountryGirl (Dec 8, 2004)

Times have sure changed since I was a kid. I can't imagine forcing an older child who is about to enter puberty or the "teenage years" to sit in a booster seat.

If they're gonna make laws about putting children who are 4ft. 9in. in a booster seat, then that should apply to adults who are short as well. Most 10yr. olds are at least 4ft.9in. but some don't make it that height until highschool. Then there's adults who are under 4ft. 9in.


----------



## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

Unless your kid is tall enough to sit safely in a seatbelt it's absolutely stunned to say, "Ok, you know, I think at 9 you are old enough to die in a car crash. No booster for you!"

Good grief. If your kid needs a booster, put him in it, don't pass on your weird insecurities to your child (the general 'you' of course)


----------



## mommy2abigail (Aug 20, 2005)

I suppose that at 18 they can do what they want, but I would try to keep them in it as long as possible.


----------



## JanB (Mar 4, 2004)

No, seriously, if you're genuinely short, and you don't even reach 4'9" as an adult, when do you stop using a booster seat?

Of course I don't want my child to die in a car crash, but seriously, when does it become okay to ditch the booster seat? Or is it simply unsafe for a short adult to be driving a car? (I'm asking this seriously -- my grandma was 4'10" and always sat on a pillow when driving so she could see over the steering wheel.)


----------



## L&IsMama (Jan 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JanB* 
(I'm asking this seriously -- my grandma was 4'10" and always sat on a pillow when driving so she could see over the steering wheel.)

OMG, mine too!







Or a phonebook.


----------



## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

well my 7 year old is 4'3" and I can't imagine making her sit in a car seat. my 10 year old is short for her age but has to be over 5'9" or right at it. I wouldn't dream of making Madeline sit in a carseat. How humiliating. I don't know a single person in real life who would even consider it. (Lily could probably still squeek by without being embarassed but not in front of her friends) . I think their emotional health is as important as their physical health. I really feel ok putting them in a regualr seat. We simply cannot protect them from everything and there comes a time where we just have to decide which is more important. strapping them down and covering them with padding or just getting on with life.


----------



## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy2abigail* 
I suppose that at 18 they can do what they want, but I would try to keep them in it as long as possible.

This is tongue in cheek, right? You seriously would keep a kid in a booster through high school until they were legally an adult??

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JanB* 
No, seriously, if you're genuinely short, and you don't even reach 4'9" as an adult, when do you stop using a booster seat?

Of course I don't want my child to die in a car crash, but seriously, when does it become okay to ditch the booster seat? Or is it simply unsafe for a short adult to be driving a car? (I'm asking this seriously -- my grandma was 4'10" and always sat on a pillow when driving so she could see over the steering wheel.)

Yeah, my grandma too. She drove from the time she was 12 (no license laws back then) to age 90 with only a speeding ticket here and there. She'd still be driving now if my uncle hadn't taken the engine out of her car.







: But seriously, she's 5'0 on a tall day, with heels on.


----------



## glendora (Jan 24, 2005)

All of these grannies propped up on phone books oughta answer this question.


----------



## dallaschildren (Jun 14, 2003)

I can't answer your poll. There isn't a choice for "when they pass the 5 step test". If your child doesn't pass the 5 step test, then they need to be in a booster until they do. http://www.carseat.org/Boosters/630.htm
Yes. There are adults who should technically be in a booster. And they make them....boat seats or backless seats for those of small stature would be fine. Here are examples: http://www.cabelas.com/products/Ccat21334.jsp

You cannot compare a physically mature shortish adult and a physically immature child. It has more to do (if not all to do with) skeletal structure, joints, ligaments, and tendon maturity than it does about height. A childs immature physicality will not withstand crash forces in a MVC as a mature adults would. The average vehicle retraint system is made with an average 5'4" adult in mind. The 4'9" height given is a general recommendation. NHTSA issues such a recommendation with the knowledge that that benchmark will likely increase the chance that the childs age will be older, consequently giving the childs body time to mature. FTR, NHTSA recommends booster seat use for children 4 years old to at least 8 years of age or unless they are 4'9" tall. As CPS professionals we also recommend that the child weigh at least 40 pounds.

DC


----------



## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
well my 7 year old is 4'3" and I can't imagine making her sit in a car seat. my 10 year old is short for her age but has to be over 5'9" or right at it. I wouldn't dream of making Madeline sit in a carseat. How humiliating. I don't know a single person in real life who would even consider it. (Lily could probably still squeek by without being embarassed but not in front of her friends) . I think their emotional health is as important as their physical health. I really feel ok putting them in a regualr seat. We simply cannot protect them from everything and there comes a time where we just have to decide which is more important. strapping them down and covering them with padding or just getting on with life.

Gosh, my almost 7 yo is still in her car seat - not even a booster yet. She doesnt think twice about it. All her friends are also still in seats. Because they have always used them, there is no sense of embarrassment about it. It's just the way it is. No biggie. I don't know how tall she'll be at ten, but if she's still too short to go without, I assume I will still put her in a booster.


----------



## rdkks (Jul 12, 2005)

I used to nanny for a couple of doctors and they kept their kids in at least boosters, maybe harnesses, until 9 years old. They are the ones that saw the kids injured in crashes from not being in them. I think that it will become more and more common to see older kids in boosters...I personally will err on the side of physical saftey. If I had an extremely short child, I don't know, but I can easily see keeping my kids in seats until 8-9 years old.


----------



## zo's ma (Mar 4, 2003)

My 8 y/o is in a booster, as are all but one of his classmates (she just turned 9 and is tall). DS is 54".....I just don't like where the seatbelt hits him when he's not in his booster.


----------



## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dallaschildren* 
I can't answer your poll. There isn't a choice for "when they pass the 5 step test". If your child doesn't pass the 5 step test, then they need to be in a booster until they do. http://www.carseat.org/Boosters/630.htm
Yes. There are adults who should technically be in a booster. And they make them....boat seats or backless seats for those of small stature would be fine. Here are examples: http://www.cabelas.com/products/Ccat21334.jsp

You cannot compare a physically mature shortish adult and a physically immature child. It has more to do (if not all to do with) skeletal structure, joints, ligaments, and tendon maturity than it does about height. A childs immature physicality will not withstand crash forces in a MVC as a mature adults would. The average vehicle retraint system is made with an average 5'4" adult in mind. The 4'9" height given is a general recommendation. NHTSA issues such a recommendation with the knowledge that that benchmark will likely increase the chance that the childs age will be older, consequently giving the childs body time to mature. FTR, NHTSA recommends booster seat use for children 4 years old to at least 8 years of age or unless they are 4'9" tall. As CPS professionals we also recommend that the child weigh at least 40 pounds.

DC

I just read your link and I'm very glad that I'm not a crazy woman for intending to keep my dds in boosters for a long time to come. Thanks for the info and the reassurance!


----------



## Jennifer Z (Sep 15, 2002)

Both of my kids will stay in a booster until they are 4'11" (or whatever the height is), regardless of their age. I have family that is shorter than that as adults and they drive cars modified to be safe for their height, including pedal adjustments and modified booster seats to make them safe.

Until cars are made to be safe at other heights, it isn't about age, but physics of car design.


----------



## Viewfinder (Sep 2, 2005)

ON impact, they jerk right out of their shoulder and lap harnesses like they're greased pigs. Slam right into the ceiling, out the windshield, like rag dolls. It's HORRIBLE. I remember there was a 12 yo "dummy," tall, slim, "big enough" for a regular belt. The dummy flew just as fast as the smaller victims.

Regular car seating is not designed for a small person. It's designed to "Fit all." But it does not fit all. Then the seat belts and shoulder straps are designed for average-sized and weighted adults. The positions do not work for smaller, lighter people.

The booster seat fixes that shortfall. Really, seats should be designed for the user, but they're not, so it's not something I have any problem with enforcing with my child, who is now 8. If she is riding with me in my volvo wagon, she uses the booster. If she rides with another mother who's car is rather tank-like, and her children ride w/o boosters in it, I'm okay with that. I think she's about as safe in that tank with no booster as she is in my car with one.

However, if I had a big Durango or other SUV, I'd have dd use her booster. Having survived my own terrible car accident at age 22, and then survived our minivan being t-boned with us both in it, I can measure with pretty good accuracy how protective my dd's booster seat was to her. Had she not been in it, she'd have flown out of the belt. She was using a booster with a five point harness. Her neck got whipped a little, which prompted me to buy a Britax, which was awesome while she fit it. I wish I could afford a new one for her.

It's important, it's easy enough to do, it communicates to your child every time they get in the car, "I want you to be safe from harm."

VF


----------



## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
I think their emotional health is as important as their physical health. I really feel ok putting them in a regualr seat. We simply cannot protect them from everything and there comes a time where we just have to decide which is more important. strapping them down and covering them with padding or just getting on with life.

I've always liked you!







Seriously, this is how I feel also. My girls are 10, 6 and 4. Dd1 and dd2 are small for their age; dd3 is not. Currently dd2 and dd3 are both in backless boosters. I've told dd2 (she complains terribly) that she can drop the booster when she turns 8 (like dd1 did). She has a little over a year to go and is counting the days.

When dd1 was in kindergarten, there were only three kids in the class still in car seats or boosters of any kind. She thought I was awful to make her sit in one until eight years old! Third grade when her peers stopped in preschool. I did it because I felt it was necessary/safe/etc.

But I do agree with lilyka that their emotional health plays into it too. My state recently raised (yet again) the ages/heights/weights for who needs to be in boosters by law. I am not generally a rule breaker but am not making my 63 pound almost 11 year old get back into a booster. Give me the $62 ticket (or whatever it is). I'm just not doing it.

I know some will think it awful. I have two Britax carseats - one in each car, professionally installed. Attended the three hour car seat clinic. We lugged big, heavy, bulky car seats onto airplanes and paid for seats when the kids were little enough to be on laps per airline rules. Bought other car seats to be used with my sister or in preschool carpool situations - as our seats were hard to uninstall and reinstall (well, you could but they were in so nice and tight that I hated to take them out - so two Britax; one in each car - plus the loaners). I am all about car safety. But I'm not putting my 15 year old in a booster no matter how petite she is.


----------



## onlyzombiecat (Aug 15, 2004)

I don't think there is a particular age I could pick out as too old. I think it needs to be based on what is safest for that person due to their development/stature and how they feel individually. At age 18 they can make the decision for themselves on what they will do.
If someone needs to sit on a phone book or pillow maybe they should require an adult version of a booster seat to make it safer for people of shorter stature.

We demand that everyone in our car wear a safety belt. Until dd can pass that 5-step test she'll use whatever she needs to use to be safe if she wants to ride in our car.


----------



## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten* 
But I'm not putting my 15 year old in a booster no matter how petite she is.









: My 3-1/2-yr-old is in a high back harnessed booster, and will be harnessed until he maxes the weight limit (should be right around when he's 4) and then in the belt positioning I imagine until he's about 6; then a backless until he's 8-10, depending on the situation. We'll apply the same to my daughter. I just can't see how emotionally weird it would be to have a tween/teen in a booster seat, and agree with others that emotional health at that age is very important. *PLUS*, we make it a point to buy the best crash-rated cars we can afford (we currently have a 5-star rated one on all crash scenarios) *and* keep them properly maintained, which are two things I think are VERY often overlooked in crash scenarios.

It's tragic when freak things happen like seat belts not working, or airbags not deploying or overdeploying; I can't imagine the horror of losing a child, and hope I never have to. But, at the same time, since it's risky to even be putting my child into a car in the first place and I take that risk almost every day, I take the whole scenario into consideration and make judgement calls from there, which include not making a tween/teen sit in a booster seat. I was 4'9" in 9th grade, and cannot imagine being forced to sit in a booster (even a backless one), nor can I imagine my parent making an argument that would convince me to do so willingly. Life is full of various levels of risk, which can be mitigated to varying degrees.


----------



## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

If I was an adult under 4'9", I'd happily sit in a booster seat, it could save my life!

We are a very tall family, and I have no doubt my son will be out of his booster by 10. But if he's not, oh well. I'm not willing to let him die in a car crash because he feels too old to sit in a booster. Plus at that age it's not like he'd have to be in a high back booster that looks like a carseat, he would be plenty old for one of the seats without a back that couldn't even be seen from outside the car.

Also, I see many kids his age, or at least his size without a booster. I could never live with myself if he was injured in a car wreck and something as simple as a booster seat could have prevented it.


----------



## wemoon (Aug 31, 2002)

My kids are 6 and almost 8 and are both in booster seats still. I plan to keep them in one until the seatbealt fits them correctly without the seat. I don't think they would even like not having the seat because they would not be able to look out the windows.


----------



## 1xmom (Dec 30, 2003)

My dd is 7 and is in a booster. She thinks the cup holders are cool so she doesn't mind it.


----------



## mmace (Feb 12, 2002)

My nine year old son is happy in his booster - here in PA it is the law, and since it has been the law since he was little he doesn't know any different.


----------



## mbhf (Jan 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
Unless your kid is tall enough to sit safely in a seatbelt it's absolutely stunned to say, "Ok, you know, I think at 9 you are old enough to die in a car crash. No booster for you!"

Good grief. If your kid needs a booster, put him in it, don't pass on your weird insecurities to your child (the general 'you' of course)


----------



## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

The legal criteria for my province is one of the following:

- child turns eight years old
- child weighs 36 kg (80 lbs)
- child is 145 cm (4 feet 9 inches) tall.

and that will be my minimum standard.


----------



## MommaCrystal (May 25, 2006)

This is a hard question for me. I didn't pass that 4'9" requirement until I hit a growth spurt around 14 maybe even 15 years old. My son is more of average size so i'm not worried about him taking THAT long... but I could not see myself forcing a teenager to sit in a booster seat.


----------



## Flower of Bliss (Jun 13, 2006)

I don't have an answer yet. I certainly have not set an arbitrary age in my head. DD is only 10 months old. Needless to say, she's sitting rearfacing in a convertible seat and could care less about what her peers are doing. However, _I_ am 4ft 10in. I did not ride in a booster in high school. I did not ride in a booster in middle school. I was not in a booster when I was 7. I have no memories of ever being in a seat, but I know I was. My mother, 4ft 11in herself, followed the laws (in the 1980s) about carseats.

I do not meet the requirements for sitting in front of an airbag. I'm too short and not heavy enough (maybe I am now postpartum). When I was learning to drive my mother would not let me drive in a car with airbags. She even desperately tried to get her own airbag turned off.

I have no trouble seeing over the steering wheel in my Honda Civic. I can reach the pedals without issue. If I felt a need, I would use an adult booster. However, even as ballsy and unconcerned with others opinions I was as a teen, I can't imagine riding in a booster then.

I have no clue what I'll do if my DD is as short as me. No clue at all.


----------



## RubyWild (Apr 7, 2004)

Very short adults need to use a booster, unless they can find a car that's designed to fit them. Most cars simply are not designed with extreme heights in mind and therefore an adequate safety level cannot be acheived for them without modifications such as boosters and possibly something done to the foot pedals, for shorter people and larger vehicles for taller people.


----------



## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

As long as they need to be in one, which will probably be a LONG time for Evan who isn't on the height or weight chart as of now. He'll easily rf to 4 or 5, as will Ilana.

Quote:

strapping them down and covering them with padding or just getting on with life.
That's ridiculous, considering if you don't strap them in right, they might not get to get on w/ life. I find it absurd that some of you care MORE about your kids theoretical emotional health (since most kids want to be safe and if that includes a booster, they'll happily sit in one) than their life. What good are emotions if you're dead? There wouldn't be laws about carseat safety at all if parents would care enough to do what is best for their child to begin w/.

Did anyone watch Oprah recently where the little girl (7) was decapitated by her seatbelt? That's what can happen if you're in a seatbelt that doesn't fit, child or adult.


----------



## ashleyhaugh (Jun 23, 2005)

havent read the posts yet, but my sis had a friend whose last day in a booster was the first day of 9th grade- thats when she grew out of it, she was super petite


----------



## mbhf (Jan 8, 2005)

another thing is, while nobody rode in a booster seat past 3 or 4 when i was little, now almost all kids that age are still in harnessed carseats. a 10yo in a booster _was_ unheard of, but it's not anymore. it is quickly becoming the norm.


----------



## aprilushka (Aug 28, 2005)

Question ---

Are there any booster seats that work with lap belts? In our cargo van, the back seats (which are removable) have lap belts only, so with DS, his booster doesn't work with a lap belt really. Is a lap belt as big a problem for safety as shoulder for kids who are say over 40 lbs but not 4'9"? I know when I was a kid I travelled in the back with lap belt all the time probably from age 3 on, although I know there's been a lot of safety info since then. We obviously always try to use our other car when possible, but sometimes we may need to transport the kids in the cargo van and I'm not sure what to do. For now we can put DD in her infant seat (she's 22 lbs) when that's necessary and DS in the toddler seat but in another year that won't be feasible. So I'm wondering if a lap belt for the short, very necessary trip for say a 5 or 6 year old who ways over 40 is a huge safety issue. If it is, I need to be armed with info for DH, who comes from a country where they are only starting to put babies in car seats at all.


----------



## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

In my state it's only the law that they remain in boosters until 6 years old. Heck, they don't even have to wear SEATBELTS in the backseat after age 11, so I'm sure I'll be the 'crazy lady'. My son will be in a booster seat until he's 1) 8 years olad and 2)can safely wear an adult seatbelt and have it hit him in the proper place. He's fairly tall for his age (37 inches tall right now) so I'm sure he'll be tall enough by 8...but he'll still be in a booster until then.

My aunt has my 4 y/o cousin in just a backless booster and I just want to shake her...thats totally unsafe. James will be HARNESSED until he can't be harnessed anymore (or gets booted out of the harnessed booster by a younger sibling, won't happen till closer to 6 or 7 more than likely)


----------



## dallaschildren (Jun 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aprilushka* 
Question ---

Are there any booster seats that work with lap belts?

No. Booster seats should never be used with just a lap belt. Always use them in seating positions with a lap AND shoulder.
If you have a vehicle that does not have lap and shoulder belts in the back, post here and we'll see if we can find you a retrofit kit for your vehicle.
For clarification, we are speaking of belt positioning booster seats here and not harnessed restraints.

DC


----------



## aprilushka (Aug 28, 2005)

I would need a retro fit to go with removeable bucket seats that didn't come with the car.

It may be a tall order but I suppose someone makes them. We bought the car and seats three years before having kids so we didn't really think about it.


----------



## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

I guess how comfortable your children feel in a seat, what they see their friends doing and whats available etc all edpends on the laws in your state. Here we are still at 4 years old and 40 pounds (and our kids can get drivers liscences at 14 for roads) so it is rare to see a child over the age of 5 or 6 in a carseat. At 4 Ava is already aware that kids her age are not always in car seats. I can't imagine what it would be like dropping a kid off to middle school and making them climb up into a car seat.


----------



## RubyWild (Apr 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
I guess how comfortable your children feel in a seat, what they see their friends doing and whats available etc all edpends on the laws in your state. Here we are still at 4 years old and 40 pounds (and our kids can get drivers liscences at 14 for roads) so it is rare to see a child over the age of 5 or 6 in a carseat. At 4 Ava is already aware that kids her age are not always in car seats. I can't imagine what it would be like dropping a kid off to middle school and making them climb up into a car seat.

It's better to imagine that than imagine them dead in a relatively minor accident because they weren't properly secured in the car. Imagine a car accident where you and your baby walk away unharmed and your 5 year old, who was simply in an adult-designed restraint, is brain damaged or dead. These injuries and deaths occur daily.


----------



## <~*MamaRose*~> (Mar 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
The legal criteria for my province is one of the following:

- child turns eight years old
- child weighs 36 kg (80 lbs)
- child is 145 cm (4 feet 9 inches) tall.

and that will be my minimum standard.









:


----------



## Thalia the Muse (Jun 22, 2006)

Quote:

is rare to see a child over the age of 5 or 6 in a carseat.
Wow, I guess these things are really regional. I don't think any of my daughter's friends are out of boosters yet, and she's about to turn six. It hasn't occurred to her that she might not have to have a booster.

She did agitate, strenuously, to move out of the Roundabout to a booster, and then later to have the booster back removed. But riding with nothing? No way.

A backless booster seat is not a particularly bulky or babyish-looking object -- it's just a higher version of the car seat, and you feel more comfortable riding in it because the shoulder harness isn't sawing to your neck. If I were under five feet, I'd probably want one too!


----------



## Triciabn (Nov 6, 2005)

LOL... since when would I care what the other kids in my childs class think about him riding in a car seat.... IF we rode to school everyday in a clown car with monkeys flying out the tailpipe and they didn't like it...I could care less... and if my son said, "Johny thinks I am a baby because I ride in a car seat".....I would tell him"Johny is a moron and apparently Johnys mom isn't too concerned with how safe ole Johny-boy is as they drive around in a world where people text their best friends about what they saw on Oprah all the while drinking their iced -oh-la-latte doing 75mph on their way to gymnastics"
Then I would add...
"but your momma loves you....and who cares our windows are tinted...now get in a buckle up..I got to text my friend"

Seriously people are some of you okie-dokie with "My kids friends will tease them and I don't them to hurt my kid emotionally"?
My grade schooler has never even mentioned it to me.
Tricia


----------



## Brilliantmama (Sep 28, 2006)

The themes remind me of when I was a kid and my parents ALWAYS made us wear our seatbelts-or the car did not go. I had friends who got to ride anywear (floor, back of the van, etc) in the car without seatbelts. I thought it was so cool, I bragged about riding with them and not wearing my seatbelt. Mom found out, talked to my friend's mom and that was the end of that.

But now as an adult, I never ride without a seatbelt and won't start the car until everyone (even MIL!) buckles up. I am thankful that my parents took my safety that seriously.

Abby is tiny, likely she will be in a booster through at least middle school. If she gets bent out of shape that most kids are NOT in boosters, I plan on letting her pick out her own "grown up" booster. But sitting without one, will NOT be an option in our family.

But this is coming from the 17 yr old babysitter who bought a carseat for the 3 year I watched after being horrified that her parents buckled her into my car with a regular seatbelt.


----------



## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

Booster seats are a tool, if you are not tall enough for the seatbelt to fit properly then you need a booster. IMO there is no age limit to a booster seat. My 8 year old is 3'11 and will be in a booster for a long time to come.


----------



## SomedayMom (May 9, 2002)

My sons will be in seats until they meet the safety requirements (by which I mean the 5 step test, the LAW is a freaking joke). For us though, that will likely be on the earlier side. Our family is on the taller side.

I wouldn't care what their friends thought. Heck, DS is only 2.5 and some of his "friends" are already in booster seats instead of harnessed seats riding around in their little deathtraps....I suppose if their parents are OK with this.... Car accidents are the number 1 killer of children, and my kids physical safety FAR outweighs any potential teasing. It's a weird argument to me. I didn't circ my son and I don't care about the teasing argument and this is a FAR more important decision, keeping him ALIVE in the car. Besides, I'm raising him to be stronger than the possible teasing.


----------



## UltimateSerj (Apr 9, 2002)

my 9 year old is still in a backless booster most of the time! she is 55 lbs, not sure on high but its under 4' 9" she has sometimes ridden with out a booster in the very back seat of my van she can sit correctly and the seat belt lays properly on her shoulder BUT she rides in the middle row the seat belt there doesn't even lay right on my shoulder she is in her booster and will be till she is tall enough to fit the seat properly. my 6 year old is in a booster now finally and will be there a long time, my son is 4 but only 38 lbs and is still in his 5pt harness. intill they make the CARS that fit the kids right i will fully support putting kids in car seats/ boosters keeping my kids safe is the most important thing to me.
also here there are a lot of kids who don't use them and should but there are also kids that use them and never say a word. Elizabeths girl scout troop 6-9 yrs old they ALL here in booster seat!! i was so excited when i noticed this and proud of the parents!! girls even brought there boosters in to meetings when carpooling or being picked up by another parent / friend! not one child has ever said anything at all to my daughter


----------



## chinaKat (Aug 6, 2005)

Does anybody posting in this thread that a short teen belongs in a booster seat actually *have* a short teen that rides in a booster seat?

Does anybody even *know* a teen that uses a booster?

Just curious.


----------



## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chinaKat* 
Does anybody posting in this thread that a short teen belongs in a booster seat actually *have* a short teen that rides in a booster seat?

Does anybody even *know* a teen that uses a booster?

Just curious.

I don't know any teenagers that are shorter than 4'9. My grandma was 4'11 and she always sat on a cushion. Little people I am sure use them


----------



## 2Sweeties1Angel (Jan 30, 2006)

Quote:

If they're gonna make laws about putting children who are 4ft. 9in. in a booster seat, then that should apply to adults who are short as well.
My MIL should be riding in a booster


----------



## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chinaKat* 
Does anybody posting in this thread that a short teen belongs in a booster seat actually *have* a short teen that rides in a booster seat?

Does anybody even *know* a teen that uses a booster?

Just curious.

I went to school with 2 guys that were both so short they needed cushons to sit on to drive.







Other than that, no.

And if my son is 'embarassed' because I make him sit in a booster at 8 years old I'll do like Tricia

"Well, Mama would prefer you not end up dead on the side of the road because you aren't buckled in properly. Obviously Sally's mama does not feel the same way."

Sorry, but if a little bit of embarssement keeps my kid ALIVE/not seriously injured...well I'm all for it then.







:


----------



## ashleyhaugh (Jun 23, 2005)

my grammy sits on a cushion too, and has one at her back to push her forward on the seat. i think she only hit 4'10" or 4'11" at her tallest, and of course has gotten shorter as shes aged. she 86 now, and probably 4'8" or so


----------



## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chinaKat* 
Does anybody posting in this thread that a short teen belongs in a booster seat actually *have* a short teen that rides in a booster seat?

Does anybody even *know* a teen that uses a booster?

Just curious.

I had a friend in HS who had to sit on a phone book to drive her car. I'm sure a booster would have been much more comfortable, but I'm not sure what was avaliable in the early 90's.









It wont be an issue in our family because we are all massively tall .. I'm 5'10" and my son outgrew his Marathon height wise about a year ago at only 3.5 years old. But I can guarantee, if he was a short teen, we would find some sort of booster (albeit the least embarassing one possible!) to keep him safe. I've seen the results of car accidents where the seatbelt did not fit the passenger correctly and I've had a couple of very scary accidents in my time.

It's taking a horrible risk to wear an ill-fitting seatbelt, one just as bad (IMO) as not wearing one at all.


----------



## nomadmom (Mar 30, 2003)

I didn't vote because I'm not sure what I think is "too old" to be in a booster seat. My ds used one until age 10 (and would have used it longer, but we got rid of our car and didn't have one again until he was big enough to not need it). My 4'8" 10 yr. old dd rides in a backless booster. She gets car sick if she can't see out the window, so that is the explanation she's given to the couple of kids who've asked about it. Even w/o the car sickness, I'd still have her in it for now.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
Unless your kid is tall enough to sit safely in a seatbelt it's absolutely stunned to say, "Ok, you know, I think at 9 you are old enough to die in a car crash. No booster for you!"

Good grief. If your kid needs a booster, put him in it, don't pass on your weird insecurities to your child (the general 'you' of course)
















:

-Angela


----------



## dallaschildren (Jun 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aprilushka* 
I would need a retro fit to go with removeable bucket seats that didn't come with the car.

It may be a tall order but I suppose someone makes them. We bought the car and seats three years before having kids so we didn't really think about it.

What year, make and model of the car, did the seats come from? What make model and year of vehicle are the seats in now?


----------



## mummyto3girls (May 13, 2007)

My DD is 5 and she's 4'1 1/2 i bet that by the time she's 8 or 9 she'll be much taller than 4'9.

I'll say you're never too old for a booster(if you're not 4'9 yet) if I where to have small teen girls I'll keep them in the booster, who cares about others really.


----------



## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

As long as they need one. My son is six and I don't expect him to be out of one any time soon. All or nearly all of the kids in his class last year were still in booster seats - many of them still harnessed. I think my son is around 50 inches - so 4-2 ish? He still has a lot of growing to do before I'd let him not use one.


----------



## incorrigible (Jun 3, 2007)

.


----------



## wendy1221 (Feb 9, 2004)

Where are you getting the 4'9 number? My ds will be 8 next month, and while he is still too short to ride w/ the regular seatbelt, I do think he'll be tall enough well before he reaches 4'9. I thought the rules were that they had to be able to sit on the seat w/ back against the back, knees bend at or past the edge of the seat, and seat belt crosses over their shoulder, not their neck? My ds is 50" tall, and I would say he is only about 2-3 inches away from meeting these guidelines. In total height, not just torso height. I think he'll be tall enough in a year or 2. By law, he won't be required to be in a booster after he turns 8 next month, but he'll be in one until he is able to fit the seatbelt correctly as I described above. I seriously doubt he'll be 4'9, though.

I just realized that the rear bench of our Sienna is shorter, in height from the floor, and depth, so that might be why he's so close to meeting the guidelines in our van. He definitely wouldn't be so close in the front seat. The seatbelts in the back seat also have built in shortener things, to make them lower.


----------



## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

According to my ped, once the joints and ligaments have stopped growing, its okay to be out of a booster, even if you are not above 4 foot 9. Before that the improper placement of the seat belt in a shorter position is dangerous and you are rocked back and forth on impact.

Most kids hit the 4 foot 9 WAY before the joint and ligaments stop growing, which for girls is around age 13.

That is why it is more okay for an adult or teen who is short to ride without a booster.


----------



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

My daughter is very tall for her age. She'll be in a booster seat after she hits 4'9" because it isn't just about height - a child's abdomen can't withstand the pressures of the seatbelt right against their stomach in a crash.

As for smaller teenagers - I'd probably look for a booster seat made for adults and see if the teenager was OK with that - a teen might actually appreciate it because it might make her more comfortable in the car. I wouldn't put a teenager in a child's car seat because I agree that would be potentially humiliating, but an adult booster might be something we'd both be OK with. And she'd probably need something like that forever.

But my daughter just turned 5 and is already 4'3". She's much taller than most kids her age and her daddy and I are tall so I'm guessing she'll reach that height too early rather than late.


----------



## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maya44* 
According to my ped, once the joints and ligaments have stopped growing, its okay to be out of a booster, even if you are not above 4 foot 9. Before that the improper placement of the seat belt in a shorter position is dangerous and you are rocked back and forth on impact.


Your Ped is not correct. It is still dangerous for an adult to be wearing an improperly fitted seatbelt.

Wendy, as you noted, some seats fit smaller kids better, particularly third row mini seats. 4'9" is a rough estimate. Some kids gain lots of height in their legs and will be in boosters longer, other kids have super-tall torsos and won't need to be in boosters so long. (By the way, the other qualification for riding without a booster other than the ones you mentioned is that the lap belt needs to ride low and snugly on their thighs or hips not on their bellies)


----------



## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

Seatbelts don't fit me properly because I am too tall and my boobs are too big. Not something that can be helped with a booster. I mean if it is so all-fired important for seatbelts to fit properly, something needs to change on the manufactuer's end. Just to add a Ralph Nader touch to your morning. But seriously I get so sick of the self-righteousness of these carseat threads. You know what, your car is a dangerous, lethal weapon. If you're worried about people getting killed in it, stop driving it. Otherwise you're going to have to get comfortable with some level of relative risk. Even with your 14 year old riding in his booster seat (yeah right.)


----------



## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BelgianSheepDog* 
You know what, your car is a dangerous, lethal weapon. If you're worried about people getting killed in it, stop driving it. Otherwise you're going to have to get comfortable with some level of relative risk.

Yes, cars are lethal weapons. There is risk each time we get into one. In many places, they are also a fact of life .. there is no way around having one, and driving it. I'm sorry, but I can't take my clients out on horseback to show them houses.

So why would you not reduce your risk as much as possible, knowing you are getting into a lethal weapon several times a day? It's just crazy logic to say cars are dangerous and kill people anyway, so no need to put a small adult or teen in a booster. That's just nuts.







:

FTR, I really don't care or get worked up with what other people do with their kids. Don't put your teen in a booster, I could care less. The question was how long would *I* keep my kid in a booster, and I would do it until a seatbelt fit him properly.


----------



## chinaKat (Aug 6, 2005)

It seems one thing to predict now that your five year old will ride in a booster seat when she's sixteen, and another thing entirely to enforce it when she actually reaches that age.

My guess is that most teens truly would prefer to die in a horrific car crash than to use a booster seat, so the battles you mamas are facing on this front are sure to be epic...


----------



## LilyGrace (Jun 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chinaKat* 
Does anybody posting in this thread that a short teen belongs in a booster seat actually *have* a short teen that rides in a booster seat?

Does anybody even *know* a teen that uses a booster?

Just curious.


I was a short kid, only about 4'10 and 56lbs graduating jr. high (in 1993). I rode in a booster seat through 6th grade and part of 7th.

Did it scar me for life? No. I had the ability to tell my friends to stuff it if they said anything and nyah, nyah, I could see out the window!









My 8yo still rides in a booster in some cars, but not mine. I have an extremely tiny thing and made sure he could sit properly in the seat before allowing him to be out of a booster.

My 5yo has made the decision to stay in a 5pt harness as long as possible, and is anxiously awaiting his new seat this year.


----------



## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chinaKat* 
It seems one thing to predict now that your five year old will ride in a booster seat when she's sixteen, and another thing entirely to enforce it when she actually reaches that age.

My guess is that most teens truly would prefer to die in a horrific car crash than to use a booster seat, so the battles you mamas are facing on this front are sure to be epic...

Yeah.

As far as "reducing risk as much as possible" well, someone sells a helmet for kids learning how to walk, and you could always mount an anti-aircraft weapon on your hood in case someone tries to cut you off. And you could keep a bag mask and defibrillator on your person at all times. You could hire a taster to prevent food poisoning. At some point a line is drawn--due to social standards or money or something--and we say "it's ok to take this much risk."


----------



## Jwebbal (May 31, 2004)

there is reducing risk and then there is reducing risk. All the silly things you mention require a huge amount of effort, cost or trouble. Putting your older child who is still too small for a regular seat belt into a booster isn't hard, doesn't cost much at all, and doesn't require a lot of effort. Just like car seats and seat belts. The reduction of risk for the amount of effort is huge. That's the point.


----------



## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

Like Choli said, though, there's probably going to be a considerable amount of effort expended convincing a 16 year old to get in her carseat. There's a big difference between an "older child" and a freakin young adult.

I mean my kid isn't 16, but I doubt 16 year olds have changed much in the last 11 years. I think it's safe to say that wouldn't go over well.


----------



## Jwebbal (May 31, 2004)

for pete's sake, a backless booster is not a CAR SEAT. When I think of car seats I think of 5 points. There are very few 16 yos that would need boosters, but like folks have said repeatedly, those who do, and especially small adults really benefit from them. If I can require my child, no matter what age, to use their seat belt while in a car (I remember the days when parents didn't require this, or when folks considered it their perogative to not wear a belt in another person's vehicle), I can certainly require them to use a booster if they are too small to fit a regular seat belt properly. You sound as if its so hard? Hey, you ride in my car, you wear your seat belt. I ride in your car, we all wear belts or I don't ride. My life is important to me, and maybe you don't see the benefit, but since I have an ER nurse for a partner who sees the dramatic results of not doing these things EVERY SINGLE DAY, these are requirements in our house and vehicles and with the folks we ride with.


----------



## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Honestly, this question really seems like a red herring to me. How many teenagers are under 4 foot 9? According to one of those online calculators, a 13 yo girl at 4 feet 8 3/4 inches is below the 3rd percentile and a boy would be at the 5th. Yes, there are people at that age that are that size. No it doesn't happen frequently. Yes, if one of my children is one of those few, I will expect them to ride safely. That means no sitting in the front seat or in front of an airbag if another option is available. And it means riding in a seat belt that fits them appropriately. We aren't talking about a 5 point harness - we're talking about, basically, a cushion under their butt. If they are 15 or 16 and learning to drive, they would probably need a lift to see over the dash anyhow.


----------



## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

Yeah ER nurses and NICU nurses are usually deadset against homebirth too. Confirmation bias and all. I'm all for carseats. I just think the way people beat this dead horse is ridiculous. Keep the state out of our lives when it comes to vax, is the MDC line, but everyone get on your cell and call 911 over carseat infractions! Whatever. I just like consistency now and then.


----------



## Jwebbal (May 31, 2004)

So now vaxes and homebirth get brought in? For the record my ER nurse has no issue with homebirth.


----------



## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

All I'm saying is when you spend your day dealing with worst case scenarios, it doesn't erase your general human tendency to generalize from experience.


----------



## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

As much as I think vaxes suck and the injuries can be deadly, CAR CRASHES are still in the top 3 killers of kids and adults to 34. If there's one little thing you can do to make sure your kid doesn't join that statistic, why wouldn't you do it? We're all about educating ourselves here aren't we about risks and trying to reduce them (homebirths, not vaxing, not circing etc), but when someone says something about carseats and doing more than the law requires all of a sudden those of us who really care are looked down on?







:


----------



## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

My dd rode in a booster until she was almost 10 years old, but not every day. It depended on where she had to sit in the car and how tall the seat was (she was too tall for a high back booster but couldn't pass the 5 step test in every seat in the car). In our saturn she didn't need one when she was 8...but in my mini van she needed one until she was almost 10. My son, is 7 1/2 and rides in a turbo booster with a back. He's only 4ft2in


----------



## leighann79 (Aug 4, 2005)

My DD is 8 and in a booster. We recently made it backless so that her legs were more comfortable. She will be in one until she reaches 4'9" and can do the 5-step thing.
The same goes for all of my kids.
My DS is 5.5 and in a 5-point harness. He won't sit properly with the booster part of his seat, so he will be with the 5-point until he out grows it.
DD2 was rear facing until 17 months. I want to to be still, but her seat fits in our van tighter facing front, so we feel she is safer this way.
Any kids who ride with us also use a booster. Most don't use one with their own family, but it is the rule in our vehicle.


----------



## roxyrox (Sep 11, 2006)

I voted 12, but having now read all the replies maybe that is a bit much?! I don't think a booster is like a carseat though...it's just something to make you higher. Why wouldn't you want to see out the window if you are small







:

I would never force a child to sit in one, but I think they would want to?


----------



## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

Quote:

I would never force a child to sit in one, but I think they would want to?
I don't understand this. So when your child decids at 5 that they are too old for a booster, you wouldn't force the issue? To me allowing our children to make their own decisions for life and death things before they are mentally old enough to wrap their head around death and it's permanancy is bad parenting.


----------



## roxyrox (Sep 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thepeach80* 
I don't understand this. So when your child decids at 5 that they are too old for a booster, you wouldn't force the issue? To me allowing our children to make their own decisions for life and death things before they are mentally old enough to wrap their head around death and it's permanancy is bad parenting.


At 5? No ,I wouldn't force it. But I really don't get why a child wouldn't want to sit on a booster...it enables them to see out the window! I, right now have a carseat-hating child. Every journey is a struggle. I can totally understand children not wanting to be in carseats, but why would a child object to a booster? (I actually don't know if I want the answer to this question!







) I was thinking after we ditch the carseats, we are on the way to harmonious travel!







:


----------



## chinaKat (Aug 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *roxyrox* 
I can totally understand children not wanting to be in carseats, but why would a child object to a booster?

A child, probably not... but a teen is another story. If you look up "object" in the dictionary you'll see a picture of an eyerolling teenager. My niece objects to her mom's _pants_ before they leave the house.


----------



## aprilushka (Aug 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dallaschildren* 
What year, make and model of the car, did the seats come from? What make model and year of vehicle are the seats in now?

The car is a 2000 Chevy Astro cargo van. The car seats (not the child carseats, the regular seats) we bought separately from a van conversion company (so they weren't necessarily made by a car manufacturer) and they only have lapbelts.

We also have a 2004 Toyota Sienna with the right equipment so generally it's not a problem, but on occasion we might need to transport both kids in the cargo van and then it's a problem.


----------



## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aprilushka* 
The car is a 2000 Chevy Astro cargo van. The car seats (not the child carseats, the regular seats) we bought separately from a van conversion company (so they weren't necessarily made by a car manufacturer) and they only have lapbelts.

We also have a 2004 Toyota Sienna with the right equipment so generally it's not a problem, but on occasion we might need to transport both kids in the cargo van and then it's a problem.

There are also harness vests that can be used to turn a lap belt only into a harnessed seat which would work too if you can't get them retrofitted. I'm not sure if they would be able to do that since they're not original seats.


----------



## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

Good lord people. We are not talking about strapping your teen in to a frickin Britax Marathon.









I'm sorry, but sitting ontop of a backless booster if you are one of the very, very few teens that would be under 4'9" just does not seem like the end of the world ... and certainly, undoubtably a lifesaving measure.


----------



## zendhi (Jun 17, 2007)

just a thought that flew by me as i was reading all the posts in this thread....

Car seats for children have been around since 1933, even though safety was not the goal with these seats, lifting the child up higher for the adults was the purpose.

SAFETY seats for children were invented in 1962 in England and were available by 1970. In 1975 only 5% of children used a safety seat, in 1978 the first mandatory laws were put into place but it took until 1985 for all 50 states to have laws regarding safety seats.

I will assume that none of us here would even THINK about hopping into a car and putting our 18 month old in the backseat without a safety seat. We wouldn't just hold our 7 week old in our arms. We are educated, we KNOW how important these seats are!

To those that are worried about how their older child will "feel" about being in a booster ----- what a shame it would have been in 1985 if parents across the board thought "no way, we haven't used these, my child has never used this, she / he will feel odd!" In 20 more years, having a 13 year old in a booster could be as commonplace as having a 2 year old in a seat. Think about it. Change for the better always starts SOMEWHERE and SOMETIME. Instead of focusing on negatives, think of your child being a pioneer in part of a new safety seat "movement" (nix that word law!).... how lucky are they? Education is the key guys....it has always and will always make things better for us all.


----------



## Brilliantmama (Sep 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zendhi* 
just a thought that flew by me as i was reading all the posts in this thread....

Car seats for children have been around since 1933, even though safety was not the goal with these seats, lifting the child up higher for the adults was the purpose.

SAFETY seats for children were invented in 1962 in England and were available by 1970. In 1975 only 5% of children used a safety seat, in 1978 the first mandatory laws were put into place but it took until 1985 for all 50 states to have laws regarding safety seats.

I will assume that none of us here would even THINK about hopping into a car and putting our 18 month old in the backseat without a safety seat. We wouldn't just hold our 7 week old in our arms. We are educated, we KNOW how important these seats are!

To those that are worried about how their older child will "feel" about being in a booster ----- what a shame it would have been in 1985 if parents across the board thought "no way, we haven't used these, my child has never used this, she / he will feel odd!" In 20 more years, having a 13 year old in a booster could be as commonplace as having a 2 year old in a seat. Think about it. Change for the better always starts SOMEWHERE and SOMETIME. Instead of focusing on negatives, think of your child being a pioneer in part of a new safety seat "movement" (nix that word law!).... how lucky are they? Education is the key guys....it has always and will always make things better for us all.











EXCELLENT point!


----------



## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BelgianSheepDog* 
Yeah ER nurses and NICU nurses are usually deadset against homebirth too. Confirmation bias and all. I'm all for carseats. I just think the way people beat this dead horse is ridiculous. Keep the state out of our lives when it comes to vax, is the MDC line, but everyone get on your cell and call 911 over carseat infractions! Whatever. I just like consistency now and then.

I agree - it really is ridiculous. The act of driving the car at all is so dangerous that to persuade oneself that paying for the most expensive carseat you can find is going to magically make it safe for kids defies logic. But again, it at least gives the illusion of safety leading to more peace of mind. Cos you know, if people decided to drive less, car companies, oil companies, and car seat manufacturers would make less money - it ain't the american way...


----------



## roxyrox (Sep 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
I agree - it really is ridiculous. The act of driving the car at all is so dangerous that to persuade oneself that paying for the most expensive carseat you can find is going to magically make it safe for kids defies logic. But again, it at least gives the illusion of safety leading to more peace of mind. Cos you know, if people decided to drive less, car companies, oil companies, and car seat manufacturers would make less money - it ain't the american way...

Ha! I like your post...that $300 britax makes you kid _much more safe_, right?














I drive about once a week now with my child - he hates the carseat, so we generally get the bus/train/tube. When we do go in the car, he probably comes out at least once while we are driving. I am not about to let him CIO in a carseat (people here are generally against CIO but it's SO different in a carseat







) Is he at less risk than a child who is in the car twice a day_? I think *not*._I think it is emotionally damaging to children to cry in a carseat everytime they are in one. The danger of them being emotionally damaged is far greater then the risk of them being physically damaged in a crash imo. I don't get the carseat attitude here. It really baffles me if I am honest. Yes they are good, yes you should have one if you have a car, but honestly it seems like you are instantly judged a "bad parent" if (a) you don't have your child stapped up to the wazoo every minute they are in the car and (b) if you _don't even own_ a car and occasionaly put your child in a taxi/friend's car without a britax rounymarathonyybouty seat!







:


----------



## LilyGrace (Jun 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *roxyrox* 
(b) if you _don't even own_ a car and occasionaly put your child in a taxi/friend's car without a britax rounymarathonyybouty seat!







:


I look at car seats as doing what I can for my kids. If I can keep them safe, I will. It's the same thing as early solids - why, oh, why risk a child's health for your convienence? Would you really want to live with the lifelong consequences and guilt? Knowing that there was something you could have done to prevent it, but pride or comfort got in your way?

If you put a child in a car without a carseat, yes, I would judge you. It doesn't matter if you don't own the car - if you have a kid it is your responsibility to make sure they're safe. Be it a Britax or Evenflo, it doesn't matter as long as it is installed properly and fits your child. But to go without one? No. Not okay in the least.


----------



## beanandpumpkin (Jan 2, 2005)

My kids will be harnessed until they outgrow their Marathons, and boostered until the seatbelt fits them properly.

I may be an "atypical" MDC member, though... in general, DH and I made decisions for the children and they are to follow those decisions. My 6 1/2 year old is still harnessed, and while he's asked a couple of times "when will I be able to be in a (booster) seat like so-and-so," he happily accept my answer: "you'll be in a booster when it's safer for you to be in the booster seat than to be in your harness."

I will add that my kids are of "normal" height... not exceptionally tall or short. I do not expect either of them to be under 4'9" tall as teenagers. If that makes a difference.


----------



## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

No one said anything about 'you need to buy a Britax'.

I will freely judge anyone who does anything as stunned as removing a child from a CRS while the vehicle is in motion, just because the child is crying.

I'd rather hear my child cry than go to my child's funeral.

Yes, we ALL know that not being in a car is safer than being in one, but saying, "Oh, well, I'm in the car now" is not a license to be foolhardy.


----------



## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

I'm not sure when we'll ditch the booster seat. DS is short for his age, and DH was 4'10" until the 9th grade, so we may have to cheat a little. I just can't see making a 12-year-old ride in a booster seat.


----------



## jennnk (Feb 6, 2005)

I'm 5' tall and just barely over 100 lbs. Seatbelts don't fit me properly, but I doubt I'd be able to squeeze my butt into a booster. In terms of small teens/adults, it's not just about height, it's about width. I'm short enough to sit in chairs made for children, but good luck getting me in, or out! Children need to be in boosters, but with as little as I drive, I don't think it'll be worth the fight if Andy or any other children I have are short when they're tweens/teens.


----------



## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

My dds will ride in them until they outgrow them or demonstrate they fit in the adult seatbelt system safely. Both of them are tall so it's going to happen eventually. My 6yo's classmates, some of them, don't use a booster anymore because their parents feel they are too old and it's for babies. They even let their 6yo's ride in the front seat with an airbag. Dd wanted to know why she couldn't do that too and I said that each family had its own rules.


----------



## KayleeZoo (Apr 8, 2003)

Until it's safe for them to use the vehicle seat belt alone. But my kids won't be in non-harnessed booster seats for a LONG time; there are currently 2 seats available that harness to 80lbs and that is the single safest way for a child (or anyone else) to ride, so they'll be in harnesses till they outgrow them. Then we'll visit the booster seat route.


----------



## Jennifer Z (Sep 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *roxyrox* 
I am not about to let him CIO in a carseat (people here are generally against CIO but it's SO different in a carseat







) .

It is different for me because part of the reason I don't agree with CIO is because I don't think it is good for their brains. However, a car wreck, even a hard stop or turn, can cause much longer lasting and serious damage than a little bit of CIO ever could. I would much rather my kid be pissed off at me and alive, than happily nursing and dead. I DEFINATLY would have a difficult time living with myself if I knew that my body weight crushed my child because I wasn't enough of a grown up to just wait a few minutes to nurse them. It isn't like they are going to starve in the few minutes (or even a half hour or whatever) that it can take to pull over and nurse them safely.

Quote:

I think it is emotionally damaging to children to cry in a carseat everytime they are in one. The danger of them being emotionally damaged is far greater then the risk of them being physically damaged in a crash imo .
in MY opinion, this is just dead wrong. I find it really short-sighted to think a child will forever be damaged because they cried for a few minutes. It isn't like they are in a dark room and have no comforting voice of mama/daddy talking to them like you do in a car. They are not "abandoned" in a carseat, they are just pissed off because they are being restrained.

Quote:

I don't get the carseat attitude here. It really baffles me if I am honest. Yes they are good, yes you should have one if you have a car, but honestly it seems like you are instantly judged a "bad parent" if (a) you don't have your child stapped up to the wazoo every minute they are in the car and (b) if you _don't even own_ a car and occasionaly put your child in a taxi/friend's car without a britax rounymarathonyybouty seat!







:
Yes, I will judge you as a bad parent if you don't care enough about your children to keep them safe when riding in a several ton bullet. I'm sorry if it hurts your feelings, but I just can't see how it in ANY way is contrary to AP. Why is it worth taking the chance of killing your child over something so easy and simple.

I also think it is pretty mean to make fun of people who own Britax. It makes you sound jealous and petty. I have been super low income, but have a Britax because at the time I needed it, it was the only one with a high enough weight limit for my child, who was off the charts in height at the time but was (and still isn't) in any way ready to be in a normal booster seat. I would never judge somebody for having a cheaper model, frankly, I don't even know the prices of seats because I was just looking at the height weight limits and only found one option at the time, and I had to order it online. It isn't like I was doing it for prestige...you should see the car it went in to.







If I could get a better car I would, but that is a whole different price point than a carseat.


----------



## roxyrox (Sep 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennifer Z* 
I also think it is pretty mean to make fun of people who own Britax. It makes you sound jealous and petty. .


I actually have a Britax seat for my child too so I am not jealous or petty







My point was the attitude here.

After my post on this thread someone started a spinoff about cio in carseats. (now locked) Hopefully it will be returned!


----------



## Jennyfur (Jan 30, 2007)

I stopped using booster seats for my kids when they were ~5 and wouldn't have liked to have used them longer. My kids are now nearly 21, 13, 13 and 9 if that makes a difference. I know I was always within Maryland law (IIRC, it was 4 years and 40 pounds).


----------



## bdavis337 (Jan 7, 2005)

I'm in the process of purchasing a few Regents for my boys ages 2 and 6.5, which means putting my 46 lb 6.5 yo son back into a harnessed seat from a belt positioning booster. He's been asking recently when he'll be old and big enough to take the back of the Graco Turbobooster he uses, and I'm anticipating a huge event when he finds out his new seat is a 5 point harness and not some ultra-cool backless booster. But.......I'm the mom. When he's 16 and still super short, he won't be driving anyway, b/c we're not going to do driver licenses until 18 years of age. If he can't pass the 5 point seatbelt test at that point, I"ll figure something out.


----------



## mmarie58 (Jul 12, 2005)

I have a quick question re. older kids (12 yrs and up) in carseats. How do you deal with carpooling? Do your children put their booster seats in their lockers at school? How about when they go somewhere with their friends and one parent drops off/ one picks up? Do they carry the booster through the library/ mall/ etc?
I worry that, as laws change and children are manadated to stay in carseats later and later, people will break the laws and then children will see all laws as "bendable".


----------



## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mmarie58* 
I have a quick question re. older kids (12 yrs and up) in carseats. How do you deal with carpooling? Do your children put their booster seats in their lockers at school? How about when they go somewhere with their friends and one parent drops off/ one picks up? Do they carry the booster through the library/ mall/ etc?
I worry that, as laws change and children are manadated to stay in carseats later and later, people will break the laws and then children will see all laws as "bendable".

It may take a while, but as laws change, I really think people's attitudes will change. Those of use w/ 3 and 4yo's now have several years to think about it and hopefully by the time they are 12 and may still need boosters, the thinking won't be as foreign. If going someplace like a library, I would ask if they could keep the booster at the front desk while I did what I needed to do. Malls usually have storage lockers you can rent for $1. If your child has a big enough book back, you probably could fit a small backless booster in there. I would make sure I knew who was picking up my child though and communicate to them (and of course the child) that is a non-negotiable that the child sits in their booster seat.


----------



## LilyGrace (Jun 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mmarie58* 
I have a quick question re. older kids (12 yrs and up) in carseats. How do you deal with carpooling? Do your children put their booster seats in their lockers at school? How about when they go somewhere with their friends and one parent drops off/ one picks up? Do they carry the booster through the library/ mall/ etc?
I worry that, as laws change and children are manadated to stay in carseats later and later, people will break the laws and then children will see all laws as "bendable".


I think at that age I would be more inclined to have a few devices - booster and H harness. The harness is more portable. Although I also see cars keeping up with safety standards, and perhaps a built in booster that can be pulled out in ever seat would be available by then.


----------



## spero (Apr 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1xmom* 
My dd is 7 and is in a booster. She thinks the cup holders are cool so she doesn't mind it.









:

My 7-yo is in a belt-positioning booster (with the back on), and probably will be until she's at least 8. She doesn't blink an eye over it. Most of her friends and cousins who are her age use a similar seat. The exception is one cousin - but IMO she has never been properly restrained in the car, anyway (harness straps/chest plate not properly fastened/positioned/tightened, infant seat turned front-facing too early, in a booster too soon, using a seatbelt only too soon). In fact, my SIL took DD somewhere recently and didn't bother to grab the booster from my car - I chased her down and put DD in the booster myself.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zendhi* 
To those that are worried about how their older child will "feel" about being in a booster ----- what a shame it would have been in 1985 if parents across the board thought "no way, we haven't used these, my child has never used this, she / he will feel odd!" In 20 more years, having a 13 year old in a booster could be as commonplace as having a 2 year old in a seat. Think about it. Change for the better always starts SOMEWHERE and SOMETIME. Instead of focusing on negatives, think of your child being a pioneer in part of a new safety seat "movement" (nix that word law!).... how lucky are they? Education is the key guys....it has always and will always make things better for us all.











My own mother still complains about "these COMPLICATED car seats and the damn laws!" and what a pain they are - how I rode happily in a "car bed" on the backseat floor, or in her lap, and how the good old days were so much better.

She only wears a seatbelt if my kids are with her and they tell her to put it on. She gets huffy about her clothes getting wrinkled, and the "law" telling her what to do.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *roxyrox* 
The danger of them being emotionally damaged is far greater then the risk of them being physically damaged in a crash imo.

Hunnnnnhhhhh?







:








: As the parent of two children who the victims of a HORRIBLE head-on crash (their dad was nearly killed) - I can tell you that your statement above makes me want to *vomit*. Had they not been properly restrained - well, I don't want to even think about that.

"Emotional damage" from _sitting in a safety seat_ vs. physical damage from a car crash? THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NO COMPARISON.


----------



## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

I haven't read all the replies.

Dd is very petite. We have a running joke that, based on weight recommendations, she'll be riding to her high school prom in her booster seat.


----------



## Moochie Mamma (Jan 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Britishmum* 
Gosh, my almost 7 yo is still in her car seat - not even a booster yet. She doesnt think twice about it. All her friends are also still in seats. Because they have always used them, there is no sense of embarrassment about it. It's just the way it is. No biggie. I don't know how tall she'll be at ten, but if she's still too short to go without, I assume I will still put her in a booster.

















: My almost 7yo is also still in a 5-point seat. Most of his friends are still in them- the others are in boosters.


----------



## roxyrox (Sep 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spero* 







:

Hunnnnnhhhhh?







:








: As the parent of two children who the victims of a HORRIBLE head-on crash (their dad was nearly killed) - I can tell you that your statement above makes me want to *vomit*. Had they not been properly restrained - well, I don't want to even think about that.

"Emotional damage" from _sitting in a safety seat_ vs. physical damage from a car crash? THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NO COMPARISON.

You are free to disagree with me but for MY child, I stand by what I said. It is unlikely that he will ever be in a car accident, (although it is ,of course, a possibility) but I think if you have never had a child who *hates* the carseat it is hard to imagine. My child used to scream in his seat so much he would be struggling to catch a breath, then he would vomit from being so worked up. To keep him there when I could take him out and comfort him would have been cruel, and yes, very damaging for him. Thankfully he is a little better now as he is older but if I had another child like him, I would do exactly the same thing. To sit there next to him and not do everything in my power to comfort him goes against every parenting instinct I have. Added to which, DH cannot drive like that - a hysterical child is extremely distracting, and keeping him in the seat would put us at far greater risk of _being in an accident._ in the first place. If you are in a place where you can stop and take the child out, then yes, that is better but that is not always possible, especially where we live


----------



## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LilyGrace* 
I think at that age I would be more inclined to have a few devices - booster and H harness. The harness is more portable. Although I also see cars keeping up with safety standards, and perhaps a built in booster that can be pulled out in ever seat would be available by then.

It certainly would make a lot more sense to fix the problem in the cars rather than expect teenagers to carry around booster seats. Honestly, I really really doubt that many teens would actually comply with their parents' policy about carrying around those sort of safety devices.


----------



## spero (Apr 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *roxyrox* 
It is unlikely that he will ever be in a car accident, (although it is ,of course, a possibility)

I'm sure most people who've ever been in an accident (myself included) felt this way at one time or another. Using that thinking as justification to exempt your child from proper restraint in the car just blows my mind.

Quote:

but I think if you have never had a child who *hates* the carseat it is hard to imagine. My child used to scream in his seat so much he would be struggling to catch a breath, then he would vomit from being so worked up.
Actually, one of my children WAS like that. And yes - it was extremely stressful to me, as the driver. But taking her out wouldn't have solved anything - she'd just get the idea that if she screamed hard enough I'd take her out. Eventually, she got used to riding in the car seat and calmed down.


----------



## roxyrox (Sep 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spero* 
I'm sure most people who've ever been in an accident (myself included) felt this way at one time or another. Using that thinking as justification to exempt your child from proper restraint in the car just blows my mind.

I am not trying to justify anything. Why would I have to? I was explaining my reasons. I did what I knew was right for my child at the time. I would do it again if the circumstances warrented it.

Quote:

Actually, one of my children WAS like that. And yes - it was extremely stressful to me, as the driver. But taking her out wouldn't have solved anything - she'd just get the idea that if she screamed hard enough I'd take her out. Eventually, she got used to riding in the car seat and calmed down.
Well if that works for your family, great. It wouldn't for mine.(nor would I want it to actually) He would learn if he screamed, no one helped. It is not something _I want_ to "teach" him, yk. Maybe he would have stopped screaming, at what cost, I wouldn't like to think. He is now, slowly, getting better with the carseat. As his understanding increases, I feel better leaving him there for longer. As a baby, he had *no* understanding.


----------



## roxyrox (Sep 11, 2006)

I Just though of something whilst reading this thread. What about seatbelt positioners? Are they better/worse/the same as your child sitting in a booster? Obviously not for really little ones, but if you are a teenager(or adult) and still short, are these a good option?


----------



## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *roxyrox* 
When we do go in the car, he probably comes out at least once while we are driving. I am not about to let him CIO in a carseat (people here are generally against CIO but it's SO different in a carseat







)

I personally would rather have an "emotionally damaged" child then no child at all. Or a brain damaged child, or a quadriplegic, or a amputee, or, or, or..

Letting a child cry in a crib will not save its life. Letting a child cry in a car seat until you can safely pull over will. So they ARE very different, and how one can rationalize them as being the same ala "emotional damage" is beyond me.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *roxyrox* 
I Just though of something whilst reading this thread. What about seatbelt positioners? Are they better/worse/the same as your child sitting in a booster? Obviously not for really little ones, but if you are a teenager(or adult) and still short, are these a good option?

Most are not safe. I don't know if there are any safe ones or not.

-Angela


----------



## Jennifer Z (Sep 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *roxyrox* 
It is unlikely that he will ever be in a car accident, (although it is ,of course, a possibility) but I think if you have never had a child who *hates* the carseat it is hard to imagine. My child used to scream in his seat so much he would be struggling to catch a breath, then he would vomit from being so worked up.

I gotta wonder if he did this because he knew that if he threw enough of a fit, he would get his way. Both of my kids HATED the carseat when they were young, and we just limited how far we went instead of giving them the message that their safety was optional.

They still complain once in a while, but it simply isn't an option to not be in a carseat. They know that I am there because I sing to them when they fuss and validate their feelings with "You are MAD about not being able to move, aren't you." and such and giving them alternatives..."Do you want to sing or listen to the radio, or just look out the window". When they were too little for that to make sense, I sang to them because then they would know that I was there. There are other things you can do to help them learn to cope that don't jeopardize their safety.


----------



## Nature (Mar 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
well my 7 year old is 4'3" and I can't imagine making her sit in a car seat. my 10 year old is short for her age but has to be over 5'9" or right at it. I wouldn't dream of making Madeline sit in a carseat. How humiliating. I don't know a single person in real life who would even consider it. (Lily could probably still squeek by without being embarassed but not in front of her friends) . I think their emotional health is as important as their physical health. I really feel ok putting them in a regualr seat. We simply cannot protect them from everything and there comes a time where we just have to decide which is more important. strapping them down and covering them with padding or just getting on with life.

Why couldn't you imagine putting your 7 yo in a booster? Here the law is until 8 years old and a certain weight and height. I don't get what is so humiliating about a booster. I guess my kids don't either since my 9 yo is still in one with no complaints at all. *shrug*


----------



## roxyrox (Sep 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennifer Z;8567428[B*
]I gotta wonder if he did this because he knew that if he threw enough of a fit, he would get his way.[/B] Both of my kids HATED the carseat when they were young, and we just limited how far we went instead of giving them the message that their safety was optional.

They still complain once in a while, but it simply isn't an option to not be in a carseat. They know that I am there because I sing to them when they fuss and validate their feelings with "You are MAD about not being able to move, aren't you." and such and giving them alternatives..."Do you want to sing or listen to the radio, or just look out the window". When they were too little for that to make sense, I sang to them because then they would know that I was there. There are other things you can do to help them learn to cope that don't jeopardize their safety.


Yeah, my one month old baby was manipulating me.







: God even at a year old...babies that age don't work like that.

I did (and do) other things. Taking my child out the carseat IS a last resort.


----------



## spero (Apr 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *roxyrox* 
It is unlikely that he will ever be in a car accident,

I sincerely hope you never have to find out.
Especially during one of these moments:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *roxyrox* 
When we do go in the car, he probably comes out at least once while we are driving.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *roxyrox* 
I am not trying to justify anything.

IMO, you certainly are.
And IMO, you are playing Russian Roulette with your kid every time you remove him from a safety seat in a moving vehicle.

I do hope that luck stays on his side.


----------



## sarahmae1 (Nov 11, 2002)

My 6.5yr. old DS still rides in a highback booster seat, even though the law in my state doesn't require it. Most of his friends/classmates ride around in the front seat without even a seatbelt.







: A few do at least ride in the backseat w/ a seatbelt, but none are in boosters. He has asked why they can but he can't, and he has had one friend comment to him for riding in a booster. I have explaned to him that it is safer for him, and that its not safe for him to ride in the front seat. He understands that, and now will comment when he sees other people doing something that isn't safe. He also knows that different families have different rules, etc. It really isn't that big of an issue.


----------



## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spero* 
I sincerely hope you never have to find out.
Especially during one of these moments:

IMO, you certainly are.
And IMO, you are playing Russian Roulette with your kid every time you remove him from a safety seat in a moving vehicle.

I do hope that luck stays on his side.

She's also playing Russian Roulette with her kid every time she puts him in a vehicle, car seat or not.


----------



## spero (Apr 22, 2003)

She's upping the ante considerably by taking him out of the seat, though.


----------



## Jennifer Z (Sep 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *roxyrox* 
Yeah, my one month old baby was manipulating me.







:

I didn't say your baby was _manipulating_ you. Way to twist my words.
I even gave examples of validating their feelings through your voice, (even when they don't understand *what* you are saying, they understand how your voice sounds, and they know if they hear your voice, they are not alone and abandoned. Geez.

Quote:

I did (and do) other things. Taking my child out the carseat IS a last resort.
It shouldn't even be an option. Much like spanking is never an option for me, but most people, when trying to defend spanking, say they only do it as a 'last resort'.

Oh, and let me not forget the passive aggressive smilies you find so pertinent to communication:







:


----------



## roxyrox (Sep 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
She's also playing Russian Roulette with her kid every time she puts him in a vehicle, car seat or not.


Thank-you! And ftr, my son is in a car *less than* once a week. We generally take other forms of transport which although take a little longer, are far safer than a car, strapped in or not. Are all those kids who are in a car twice a day safer than mine? (even if he is taken out his carseat for a few moments)? I actually don't think so. Funny how everyone else can "justify" their car journeys because their child is in a $$$ carseat!


----------



## spero (Apr 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *roxyrox* 
Funny how everyone else can "justify" their car journeys because their child is in a $$$ carseat!

That's a moot point. $$$ doesn't mean a thing if a seat is not installed properly and used consistently.

We don't have a top-o'-the-line Britax - just a standard econo-model high back booster with belt positioning. I'm confident that my DD is as protected as possible b/c the seat is properly installed and used every time she is in the car.


----------



## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spero* 
That's a moot point. $$$ doesn't mean a thing if a seat is not installed properly and used consistently.

We don't have a top-o'-the-line Britax - just a standard econo-model high back booster with belt positioning. I'm confident that my DD is safe b/c the seat is properly installed and used every time she is in the car.

No, she's not safe. Marginally safER, but not safe.


----------



## spero (Apr 22, 2003)

Excellent point. I edited for clarification.


----------



## roxyrox (Sep 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spero* 
That's a moot point. $$$ doesn't mean a thing if a seat is not installed properly and used consistently.

We don't have a top-o'-the-line Britax - just a standard econo-model high back booster with belt positioning. I'm confident that my DD is safe b/c the seat is properly installed and used every time she is in the car.


Exactly. The less you go in the car, the more you decrease the risk. We do that - not going in the car.

I don't really want to argue lots about this, and it seems it is getting this way. I am just trying to put across my point. For some people, putting children in carseats is HARD. We do what we can to reduce the risk to our children (in our case, by nearly never going in the car) but I just can't sit next to my child when he is so upset he can't breathe and "sing" to him. I can't ,won't and don't want to do it. Imo the greatest risk at that point is emotional. You can disagree, but I know, for my child, I have made the right choices.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

It's great to be anti-car and pro-public transit. But people who live where there IS public transit, need to realize that many people live where there is NOT. If we did not go in the car, we would never go anywhere. There is one park within (long) walking distance. We can do that off and on late Sept. through early May. Summer? Forget it. Way too hot for a mile walk.

Other than that, if we go ANYWHERE, it's in the car. Grocery store, post office, family gatherings, play group, ANYWHERE. You go in the car or you don't go.

-Angela


----------



## roxyrox (Sep 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
It's great to be anti-car and pro-public transit. But people who live where there IS public transit, need to realize that many people live where there is NOT. If we did not go in the car, we would never go anywhere. There is one park within (long) walking distance. We can do that off and on late Sept. through early May. Summer? Forget it. Way too hot for a mile walk.

Other than that, if we go ANYWHERE, it's in the car. Grocery store, post office, family gatherings, play group, ANYWHERE. You go in the car or you don't go.

-Angela

I am only talking about ME(and my ds!). I am not sure what we would do if we lived somewhere with no public transport! I am not anti-car per se. I just get fed up of the carseat posts on here. People don't seem to realise what it is like to live with a child who absoloutley won't sit in one without a total palava. I could force him to sit in it, but I feel like by doing that, I am breaking the trust he has in me,yk? He is getting better though. At least he understands what "there in 5 minutes means" now









As an aside, I am jealous of your hot weather..in London it has been raining for a month and no nice weather forcast 'till August...I would LOVE to walk a mile down a sunny road







Thanks for your reply about the positioners..I always see them on sale and wonder. I was goiong to get one for giving kids lifts but I guess it's just as easy to keep a booster cushion in the boot.


----------



## spero (Apr 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *roxyrox* 
I could force him to sit in it, but I feel like by doing that, I am breaking the trust he has in me,yk?

Over the years, I have "forced" my kids to do things in order to keep them safe. You ride in Grandpa's boat, you wear a life jacket. You hold my hand when we cross the street. You sit in a stroller when we are in a busy place and I have other children to keep track of. You allow me to cut up that hot dog into safer pieces before you eat it.

They might not like those things - and they may loudly protest them, but it isn't trust-destroying. And as I said before, I HAD a baby who HATED the carseat. She's 13 now, and those months of "forcing" her to sit in the carseat certainly haven't hurt our relationship at all. In fact, she doesn't even remember.


----------



## spero (Apr 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *roxyrox* 
I am not anti-car per se. I just get fed up of the carseat posts on here. People don't seem to realise what it is like to live with a child who absoloutley won't sit in one without a total palava. I could force him to sit in it, but I feel like by doing that, I am breaking the trust he has in me,yk?

One more question for you.
So, if your son decides at age - oh, say - eight or so, that he won't use a seat belt without a "total palava", and refuses to wear one (possibly using the justification that "Mummy didn't make me sit in the carseat/booster if it bothered me") - then what?


----------



## roxyrox (Sep 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spero* 
Over the years, I have "forced" my kids to do things in order to keep them safe. You ride in Grandpa's boat, you wear a life jacket. You hold my hand when we cross the street. You sit in a stroller when we are in a busy place and I have other children to keep track of. You allow me to cut up that hot dog into safer pieces before you eat it.

They might not like those things - and they may loudly protest them, but it isn't trust-destroying. And as I said before, I HAD a baby who HATED the carseat. She's 13 now and those months of "forcing" her to sit in the carseat certainly haven't hurt our relationship at all. In fact, she doesn't even remember.


I try, very hard, not to "force" anything. I think it is better to reach mutual compromises or solutions. "Forcing" my child do do _anything_ isn't really a route I want to go down. I know we are different, and I am glad that works for you, I just don't want to do it with my child. x


----------



## spero (Apr 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *roxyrox* 
I try, very hard, not to "force" anything.

ITA - that's why I've been putting the word "force" in quotation marks. I do not feel that taking certain appropriate safety measures is forcing anything on a child.

If your kid doesn't want to wear clothes in the dead of winter, is insisting that he be appropriately clothed "forcing" him? Or is it *TEACHING* him that it is important to be warm for his own safety and well-being?


----------



## roxyrox (Sep 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spero* 
One more question for you.
So, if your son decides at age - oh, say - eight or so, that he won't use a seat belt without a "total palava", and refuses to wear one (possibly using the justification that "Mummy didn't make me sit in the carseat/booster if it bothered me") - then what?


An 8yo is a different matter. They are capable of reason and understanding. A 1yo is NOT capable of that. At 8, if he didn't want to wear the seatbelt, we wouldn't go in the car. I can't imagine that happening with a child that age though. I have been talking of my expriences _with a baby_. My ds is 2.5 now and is so much better in the car now, _because he understands what I am saying to him._

If he didn't want to wear clothes in the middle of winter, I wouldn't force that either. I would let him go out dressed in whatever he liked and bring extra clothes in my bag. I am sure after a few minutes, he would realise that I may have a point. Stuff like that is good for children to doscover by themself...much easier that way


----------



## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *roxyrox* 
I Just though of something whilst reading this thread. What about seatbelt positioners? Are they better/worse/the same as your child sitting in a booster? Obviously not for really little ones, but if you are a teenager(or adult) and still short, are these a good option?

In most cases, the aftermarket seatbelt positioners raise the lap belt to across the abdomen. This would mean that in a crash, the crash forces would be transferred into the abdomen and there would be a high probability of organ damage. Properly fitting seatbelts allow the crash forces to be absorbed by the shoulders and hips, which are large bones and more able to withstand crash forces than internal organs.


----------



## spero (Apr 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *roxyrox* 
he would realise that I may have a point. Stuff like that is good for children to doscover by themself...much easier that way









And in the situations below, is it "much easier that way" as well?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spero* 
You ride in Grandpa's boat, you wear a life jacket. You hold my hand when we cross the street. You sit in a stroller when we are in a busy place and I have other children to keep track of. You allow me to cut up that hot dog into safer pieces before you eat it.

Let the kid choke on a hot dog - and next time he'll remember to ASK to have it cut up???

Sorry, I'll never get your reasoning. We provide certain boundaries and rules for our children not to make them happy, but to protect them from harm. They don't always like these boundaries - but often they are just too young to reasonably understand the dangers that make the boundaries necessary. If we consistently assure them that the boundaries keep them safe, I believe that kids get an enormous sense of security in knowing that their parents want to keep them safe, out of love.


----------



## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *roxyrox* 
If he didn't want to wear clothes in the middle of winter, I wouldn't force that either. I would let him go out dressed in whatever he liked and bring extra clothes in my bag. I am sure after a few minutes, he would realise that I may have a point. Stuff like that is good for children to doscover by themself...much easier that way

















: In central BC where I'm from it can get cold enough for spit to freeze before it hits the ground. I just can't imagine taking a half naked child out in that weather.







:


----------



## roxyrox (Sep 11, 2006)

I think spero, we will have to agree to disagree. If ds wanted to go on a small boat, yes, he would put on a life jacket. He doesn't have to hold my hand to cross the road (although he normally does), walking by my side is fine too. He doesn't have to sit in a stroller (our stroller is mainly for carrying shopping







) Hot Dogs...he wouldn't eat on if I paid him, cut up or not









In our family, we do have boundaries. Mutual, respectful ones. My ds is normally an easygoing, kind, bright child. He reeeeally does not liked to be strapped down in a carseat and we work with that. As he gets older, we talk more about why we do some things (like carseats!) and the older he gets, the easier it gets.


----------



## roxyrox (Sep 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *North_Of_60* 







: In central BC where I'm from it can get cold enough for spit to freeze before it hits the ground. I just can't imagine taking a half naked child out in that weather.







:

Well you could try...I bet they would learn fast why you said they should put on their clothes!


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Here I can let dd go naked to learn that clothes are important in winter. In a climate like North_Of_60? No way. I would be endangering her life.

I would never take a child out of a carseat in a moving car. Period. It's unacceptable and illegal in most places.

Stop when I can and take them out? Sure. Reduce using cars? Absolutely.

Like clothes are a non-negotiable in areas of extreme cold, carseats are a non-negotiable in cars.

-Angela


----------



## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *roxyrox* 
Well you could try...

No, I wouldn't.







When I say it's so cold it litterally takes your breat away when you first go from the heat of your home to being outside, I'm not kidding.


----------



## roxyrox (Sep 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *North_Of_60* 
No, I wouldn't.







When I say it's so cold it litterally takes your breat away when you first go from the heat of your home to being outside, I'm not kidding.


Ok I believe you







I don't think I've ever been anywhere that cold! Surely your kid would just poke her nose out then..she wouldn't want to go right out, if it's _that_ cold, would she?!









I am going to bed now! I have learned a few things from this thread.

Thanks chckabiddy for the expanation re belt positioners, I won't purchase one!


----------



## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *roxyrox* 
...I could force him to sit in it, but I feel like by doing that, I am breaking the trust he has in me,yk?

I think this tends to backfire. My mom was a total free spirit, let the kids make their own decisions, hippie type parent. Ultimately our take on it was that she didn't really care enough about us to bother enforcing an occasional rule that would have afforded us some protection. Honestly.

I think there is a balance. But kids, even babies, can grasp the concept of 'I'm doing this for your own good'. And they respect and appreciate it. I really do believe that.

And I'm very much a hands-off, let the kids explore, they are their own persons type parent as well.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

One other thing that keeps coming to mind here is, I think we sell babies short. I did a LOT of talking and explaining when dd was tiny and an amazing amount of the time she seemed to get it at some level.

I keep her strapped in the carseat because I love her and will do whatever is in my power to protect her.

I think she understood that.

-Angela


----------



## KayleeZoo (Apr 8, 2003)

Quote:

I keep her strapped in the carseat because I love her and will do whatever is in my power to protect her










Quote:

Over the years, I have "forced" my kids to do things in order to keep them safe. You ride in Grandpa's boat, you wear a life jacket. You hold my hand when we cross the street. You sit in a stroller when we are in a busy place and I have other children to keep track of. You allow me to cut up that hot dog into safer pieces before you eat it.

They might not like those things - and they may loudly protest them, but it isn't trust-destroying. And as I said before, I HAD a baby who HATED the carseat. She's 13 now, and those months of "forcing" her to sit in the carseat certainly haven't hurt our relationship at all. In fact, she doesn't even remember
.

ITA with the above.

My oldest hated riding in her carseat so much that she would cry until she vomited- repeatedly- and was a breath holder, too, and passed out on more than one occasion. But babies and toddlers outgrow stages, unless of course they're killed in car accidents. As a parent, sometimes making the hard choices is what separates the responsible from the lazy.


----------



## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

I do NOT get driving with a 1 year old out of a carseat because it will break his trust in you. What if you are in an accident and he is badly injured, God forbid? How would that affect his trust?

My dd's father was talking the other day about "compassion" vs. "idiot compassion." That made a lot of sense to me. (I'm not trying to call anyone an idiot, but I think something would be lost if I didn't mention the term he used. It really resonated with me).


----------



## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 

My dd's father was talking the other day about "compassion" vs. "idiot compassion." That made a lot of sense to me. (I'm not trying to call anyone an idiot, but I think something would be lost if I didn't mention the term he used. It really resonated with me).

*nods head in agreement*

I think letting your child get horribly maimed or injured would probably do a lot more to break trust than five minutes of crying because she doesn't want to be in her seat and there's no safe place to pull over.


----------



## spero (Apr 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
What if you are in an accident and he is badly injured, God forbid? How would that affect his trust?


Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
I think letting your child get horribly maimed or injured would probably do a lot more to break trust than five minutes of crying because she doesn't want to be in her seat and there's no safe place to pull over.

Yes, and yes.


----------



## m9m9m9 (Jun 13, 2005)

Personally, I think raising the age for booster seat use has more to do with how effective a lobby group is in a particular state.

Baby good manufactureres in the the 80's did a good business with car seats bc laws were enacted in those years requiring seats so the market was bigger. Now, there are second hand seats and generally people are only buying one type of seat - the 5pt harness - not a lot to differeniate them; thus, enter the booster seat market.

Its funny bc I had some old catalogs from back in the 80's and those backless booster seats are featured in them and were sold back then. Same exact models. Some even included teather straps so they could be used with just lap belts. Notice that through the 80's/90's, these type of seats were rarely marketed but they were always available.

My state law laws now require a child sit in a booster till age 8. I am hoping they repeal the law by the time my child is 8. I think the max age needs to be 6.

Maggie


----------



## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *m9m9m9* 
My state law laws now require a child sit in a booster till age 8. I am hoping they repeal the law by the time my child is 8. I think the max age needs to be 6.

Maggie


I assume this is based on some sort of scientific study you carried out with regards to how effective regular seatbelts are between the ages of 6 and 8?


----------



## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *m9m9m9* 
Personally, I think raising the age for booster seat use has more to do with how effective a lobby group is in a particular state.

Baby good manufactureres in the the 80's did a good business with car seats bc laws were enacted in those years requiring seats so the market was bigger. Now, there are second hand seats and generally people are only buying one type of seat - the 5pt harness - not a lot to differeniate them; thus, enter the booster seat market.

Its funny bc I had some old catalogs from back in the 80's and those backless booster seats are featured in them and were sold back then. Same exact models. Some even included teather straps so they could be used with just lap belts. Notice that through the 80's/90's, these type of seats were rarely marketed but they were always available.

My state law laws now require a child sit in a booster till age 8. I am hoping they repeal the law by the time my child is 8. I think the max age needs to be 6.

Maggie

SH! They don't want to hear that! Don't bust the bubble that they are buying in to!


----------



## LilyGrace (Jun 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *m9m9m9* 
Its funny bc I had some old catalogs from back in the 80's and those backless booster seats are featured in them and were sold back then. Same exact models. Some even included teather straps so they could be used with just lap belts. Notice that through the 80's/90's, these type of seats were rarely marketed but they were always available.

I know. I had one up until about '91, when I entered 7th grade. I was still wearing about a 6x-8 and 56lbs, hence, the car seat.

Quote:

My state law laws now require a child sit in a booster till age 8. I am hoping they repeal the law by the time my child is 8. I think the max age needs to be 6.

Maggie
Why? Look at a 6yo in a booster vs. an 8yo. An 8yo usually has about 3-4 inches on them, letting the belt be positioned properly over the abdomen and shoulder on the rare tall ones. I have yet to see a 6yo that can fit an adult seat properly. A booster is $14. Why isn't a child's life worth that little? They might get teased? So what?
Oh. Because it doesn't look cool. Because they should be too big for such a thing. They're not, and one look at them in a seatbelt will tell you that. I'd like to see these laws go the way of the UK and require boosters until age 10, when most kids are able to be safely restrained on their own.


----------



## wednesday (Apr 26, 2004)

I can't wait for my son to be big enough that a backless booster is "all" he needs. God that would be so convenient. They're cheap and small. How would his friends even see it?

In any case, I think bigger kids in boosters is becoming much more common. Fifteen years ago you never saw teenage boys riding their skateboards or bikes with helmets. But today, teenage boys who were preschoolers 15 years ago ALL wear their helmets. Seriously it is extremely rare for me to see anyone of any age on a bike without a helmet. The very hip 15-year-old boy next door often has a pack of friends over in the front yard and they do bike tricks in the street -- they all always have helmets on and I'm sure they would seriously razz any kid who was riding around without one.

I think booster seats for bigger kids are going the same way...especially as in my state it is the law up to age 8.


----------



## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
SH! They don't want to hear that! Don't bust the bubble that they are buying in to!

What bubble? That my child is safer in an appropriate carseat and that I want my child alive?! This is my training, this is what I do, this is not a marketing ploy, this is about research and people caring enough about their children to do over and above what the law says and fighting to get the laws changed. Lets all remember back to the day when everyone got vaxed and no one batted an eye about it and how far worse the ingredients probably were. They then replaced the OPV w/ IPV b/c it's 'safer' and now have the DTaP instead of DTP and many people are now questioning their safety and what's in them etc. Things change, research comes out, and I find it reprehensible that some of you base your child's safety on perceived marketing ploys etc. It's sad really, b/c if you did your own research on the matter, you'd find what is best for your child. I find it sad that more vaxes can be added to the 'required' bunch b/c of 1 child's issue (the CP vax) and that people can't get carseat laws changed to help keep kids safer from the #1 killer of children!







:

We are in the car a lot b/c we also have nowhere to walk to and don't have great public transportation, especially for 3 kids. I spend a lot more time out of the car than in though and all that other time is spent building trust w/ my children. I just told Evan he had to ride in his old carseat last night (it's rfing and he's been ffing b/c of carseat issues here) and he dind't want to. I told him mommy wanted him to be safe and this is what we needed to do, he nodded and said o.k. mommy. He knows I try my hardest to not let anything hurt him and I care for him if something does. Putting him in his carseat is just one thing I do to build trust w/ him, b/c he actually HAS to trust me to know what is best for him. Letting a child out of their seat b/c they're crying (older children here) is manipulation IMO, they cry b/c they know that's what gets them what they want. Sad, but true. It's like a child throwing a tantrum at the store for candy or a toy. Taking them out of their seat seems to me to be reversing some of what we try and teach our children.


----------



## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

:







:







:







:

Y'all know that 'lobby group' is PARENTS, right?

The ignorance on this thread is astounding.

"repeal the law"...give me a flippin' break.

I'm backing out before the nuttery gets me a moderator warning







:


----------



## spero (Apr 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LilyGrace* 
I have yet to see a 6yo that can fit an adult seat properly. A booster is $14. Why isn't a child's life worth that little? They might get teased? So what?
Oh. Because it doesn't look cool. Because they should be too big for such a thing. *They're not, and one look at them in a seatbelt will tell you that.*











Quote:


Originally Posted by *wednesday* 
The very hip 15-year-old boy next door often has a pack of friends over in the front yard and they do bike tricks in the street -- they all always have helmets on and I'm sure they would seriously razz any kid who was riding around without one.









Awesome kids!!!!!!!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thepeach80* 
this is not a marketing ploy, this is about research and people caring enough about their children to do over and above what the law says and fighting to get the laws changed.

... Things change, research comes out, and I find it reprehensible that some of you base your child's safety on perceived marketing ploys etc.

... *Putting him in his carseat is just one thing I do to build trust w/ him*, b/c he actually HAS to trust me to know what is best for him.

... Taking them out of their seat seems to me to be reversing some of what we try and teach our children.

























Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 







:







:







:







:

Y'all know that 'lobby group' is PARENTS, right?

The ignorance on this thread is astounding.

"repeal the law"...give me a flippin' break.









:


----------



## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *m9m9m9* 
Its funny bc I had some old catalogs from back in the 80's and those backless booster seats are featured in them and were sold back then. Same exact models. Some even included teather straps so they could be used with just lap belts. Notice that through the 80's/90's, these type of seats were rarely marketed but they were always available.

I am going to arrogantly quote myself. What I wrote about aftermarket seat positioners also applies to boosters used with just lap belts. It's not propaganda. I don't make a dime from advocating carseat use; in fact, I spend plenty of my own dimes on training and supplies and childcare while I'm off checking seats. I'm glad that people care enough to lobby for more effective restraints.

Quote:

In most cases, the aftermarket seatbelt positioners raise the lap belt to across the abdomen. This would mean that in a crash, the crash forces would be transferred into the abdomen and there would be a high probability of organ damage. Properly fitting seatbelts allow the crash forces to be absorbed by the shoulders and hips, which are large bones and more able to withstand crash forces than internal organs.


----------



## dallaschildren (Jun 14, 2003)

I can understand where one might see marketing and advertising a $ 300-$ 400 car seat as "propaganda". However, one just can't compare that to advocating and making law the use of a device (a BPB) that enables a vehicles lap and shoulder belts to fit a child, thereby enabling the seat belt to actually fit to restrain said child. When your child passes the 5 step test, then it is a moot point. Do we buy shoes 5 sizes too large for our children and expect them to be able to wear them?


----------



## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dallaschildren* 
I can understand where one might see marketing and advertising a $ 300-$ 400 car seat as "propaganda". However, one just can't compare that to advocating and making law the use of a device (a BPB) that enables a vehicles lap and shoulder belts to fit a child, thereby enabling the seat belt to actually fit to restrain said child. When your child passes the 5 step test, then it is a moot point. Do we buy shoes 5 sizes too large for our children and expect them to be able to wear them?

I will agree with that: yes, it may be "propaganda" to claim that only Britaxes and Recaros and Safeguards will keep kids safe. But keeping kids harnessed and/or properly belted is in line with the laws of physics, common sense, and most states.


----------



## dallaschildren (Jun 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
I will agree with that: yes, it may be "propaganda" to claim that only Britaxes and Recaros and Safeguards will keep kids safe. But keeping kids harnessed and/or properly belted is in line with the laws of physics, common sense, and most states.

I think we are in agreement?







I don't know about you, but I have had a REALLY tough time as a CPS professional and as a person with the whole recommended/best safety practice equaling big bucks on one manufacturer for many years (and even now only 3 or 4 choices each with their own idiosyncrasies). I am disenchanted with CRS manufacturers in general, vehicle makers, and from uneducated politicians who kill our bills without hesitation. Who does this legislation protect? Vehicle makers and CRS makers. Who is it suppose to protect? Our CHILDREN. But we will plug on. Sigh.

DC


----------



## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dallaschildren* 
I think we are in agreement?







I don't know about you, but I have had a REALLY tough time as a CPS professional and as a person with the whole recommended/best safety practice equaling big bucks on one manufacturer for many years (and even now only 3 or 4 choices each with their own idiosyncrasies). I am disenchanted with CRS manufacturers in general, vehicle makers, and from uneducated politicians who kill our bills without hesitation. Who does this legislation protect? Vehicle makers and CRS makers. Who is it suppose to protect? Our CHILDREN. But we will plug on. Sigh.

DC

I think we are *completely* in agreement! I am not anti-Britax -- my daughter adores her "cow" Marathon (and the fact that she adores it makes it so much easier to keep her harnessed!). But I am frustrated that the answer to "how do I keep my child safe?" is so often "buy a fancy spendy seat", and also that people who can't afford to spend $300 per seat feel frustrated that they can't keep their child safe and end up going straight to backless boosters or even seatbelts.


----------



## MamasBoys (Dec 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
well my 7 year old is 4'3" and I can't imagine making her sit in a car seat. my 10 year old is short for her age but has to be over 5'9" or right at it. I wouldn't dream of making Madeline sit in a carseat. How humiliating. I don't know a single person in real life who would even consider it.

You may not have a choice soon. My state just passed a new carseat law. 8 years old AND 60lbs to be out of a booster.


----------



## Novella (Nov 8, 2006)

I just wanted to take a moment to address the issue of "forcing" a child to sit in a carseat and the fear of a resulting dismantling of trust. This was quite a sub-theme in the thread, going a couple of pages back.

It _might_ become a matter of "forcing" *if* the child has been given reason to believe that other options are normal/acceptable. Our 6-year-old is in a high-back booster. None of her friends are. This is of absolutely no concern to her (yet she is quite 6-going-on-17 in many other ways). I realize there are limits to that; if she would be in a booster at age 14 and none of her friends were, I would be foolish if I didn't expect a fight.

But back to normalcy diffusing a need to "force":
My kids see that my husband and I wear seatbelts every single time we are in a vehicle. They have no reason to think anyone is "forcing" us to do that. It's simple: it's just what you do. No child in my family feels "forced" to have a drink of milk/water/juice when thirsty. It's simple: it's just what you do.

"Force" applies in situation of multiple choices. At least some of the comments around not forcing one's child into a traumatic carseat ride were made by individual(s) who had clearly in the past presented traveling in the car *out* of the carseat as an option.


----------



## jeca (Sep 21, 2002)

My son is very small for his age only about the size of an average six or seven year-old instead of almost ten. He is very embarrassed about his booster. When it comes to giving him a ride after school with his friends in tow he would rather walk home than to let them see him in a booster.
I put that out there cause it does matter to some kids. Luckily our truck has adjustable seat-belts, they can be raised up or down and he is just barely too mall on the lowest settings still. Hopefully by the end of this year that will have changed.


----------



## Potty Diva (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
Unless your kid is tall enough to sit safely in a seatbelt it's absolutely stunned to say, "Ok, you know, I think at 9 you are old enough to die in a car crash. No booster for you!"

Good grief. If your kid needs a booster, put him in it, don't pass on your weird insecurities to your child (the general 'you' of course)

You.are.the.coolest









I voted 18+


----------



## sogriffin (May 22, 2005)

I haven't read through the 8 pages of responses yet, so sorry if someone has already shared something similar-
I am 5'3" and my first vehicle was a HUGE diesel Blazer, with an un-adjustable steering wheel. Much like the grannies on the first page, I HAD to sit on something in order to see where I was going and fit in the seat belt properly (my dad was a paramedic so seat belt safety was drilled into our little heads from the beginning.)
I had an adult version of a backless booster, I think my parents got it at an auto parts store.
It wasn't a big deal at all. After a while, I put bumper stickers and punked it out a little. My friends thought it was cute.

Really, booster seats today are so common, low profile and not baby-ish in any way.


----------



## Demeter9 (Nov 14, 2006)

Oh for the love of....

Stop putting your own issues with embarassement on your children. The stupid culture of our youth, with being embarassed to wear knee pads and helmets is long gone and good ridance.


----------



## Demeter9 (Nov 14, 2006)

This one is very demonstrative.

http://ram.canadacast.ca/asxgen/tran...lt%20002-1.wmv

http://www.which.co.uk/reports_and_c...74_74191_9.jsp


----------



## LilyGrace (Jun 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Demeter9* 

http://www.which.co.uk/reports_and_c...74_74191_9.jsp


Interesting. The Recaro Start was listed as a seat to avoid.


----------



## Demeter9 (Nov 14, 2006)

For those who think a 5point harness isn't necessary.










Yep, torture.

Lily - it could be because it is a Canadian site and the Recaro I don't know if it is approved for the same parameters as the US.

edit: sorry it is a UK site.


----------



## Dov'sMom (Jan 24, 2007)

Didn't read all the posts above....

One of my best friends in high school was 4'10". No embarrassment at all about using a booster seat to drive (mostly to help see over the dashboard). I don't think she was in a booster seat as a passenger, but mostly because there just wasn't much awareness about the issues when we were kids.


----------

