# No Spanking



## chipper26 (Sep 4, 2008)

I am starting to research reasons not to spank and I would like to read your most important reasons. If you could sum it up in a few sentences, like if you were convincing someone that spanking is not okay, what would you say?

It is so common, accepted and expected within our society. How do you go against the grain and ward off the naysayers. I want to do what is best for my dd and what is right. My first hurdle will be my dh. I know he sees no problems with it, and I didn't either before I was a mom. But now that I have a dd, I see it as damaging to our relationship...like CIO is damaging...a loss of trust. I also see it as humiliating and shaming.

When growing up, I felt humiliated much more so when my dad spanked me than when my mom did. My dad was full of rage. As I got older, my mom's spankings seemed like a joke because they didn't really hurt. I do not, however, know how I reacted to them emotionally when I was really young.


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## Sasharna (Nov 19, 2008)

My number one reason for not spanking is that it encourages feelings of division and resentment. That's not how I want my children to grow up! I'm working toward removing _all_ punitive actions from my discipline style because I believe that even non-physical punishments can create this same effect.

I live in a different area of the US, but it honestly has not been my experience that spanking is very widely accepted. I think you'll find that most people really will support your efforts at gentle discipline much more than they would if you were spanking, even if some members of your family disapprove of your choices.


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## sweetjasmine (Sep 17, 2008)

I was spanked when I was a child and I remember the humiliation and shame of it, both good words to describe the feelings. However, I did spank my daughter up until she was about 5 years old. At the time it was recommended not to go over age 5 because it does more shaming and emotional hurt than it does good. Although I did do alot of things differently with her than what my parents did with me, the spanking part is something I felt was necessary at the time. I did read different viewpoints on the subject but I don't know, all I can say is that that was the "best" way to me at the time, probably the same thinking that my parents had and their parents who were even worse with them.

My daughter is now grown with a 3 year old and a baby of her own and I have step children. I have never spanked my grandson nor my step children except the girl one time but I regretted it. I find that the older I get, the more open minded I am about raising children. If I had to do it over, I would not have spanked my daughter or step daughter at all and I won't be spanking my grandchildren. I am very intrigued by GD and even some aspects of consensual living.


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## sunflowergirll (Feb 24, 2009)

My dh was spanked as a child, and so doesn't feel like there is much wrong with it. But I am ANTI-spanking. I hope I never, ever, ever spank.

My husband wasn't hard to convince, thank goodness.

My reasons were:

1. It doesn't teach. The purpose of spanking is to teach a lesson, right? Well what lesson would it ever, ever teach? There is always a better way to convey your message.

2. The only thing spanking conveys to me is "a big person can hurt a small person."

3. I don't want my child to ever hit someone. That means I can never hit my child.

4. If we were to spank, when would we do it? In anger? That doesn't seem like the right way to parent. When we're calm? We're going to purposefully inflict painful punishment when we're calm? That's even scarier to me.

5. Children who are spanked, are much more likely to have violent, anti-social behavior. Even if they are spanked "occasionally."

6. Spouses who hit each other can be arrested for domestic abuse. Yet, we can hit little children?

7. I want to teach my child to talk through situations, to take a step back and analyze situations before reacting. To compromise. To fit into society well. Spanking does not teach that, IMHO.

Ok, so those reasons are mostly emotional reasons. But, I felt strongly about it and my husband agreed.


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## nd_deadhead (Sep 22, 2005)

I loved Sunflowergirl's response!

I'd like to add this: At some point, a parent has to stop spanking - you aren't going to spank a 16-yr-old, right? So at the point where you stop spanking, you need to develop a different parent tool to replace it.

Why not develop other parenting tools FIRST, so you don't ever have to change your methods?

We have raised our sons based on the Golden Rule - treat others as you want to be treated. That means we treat THEM the way we want to be treated, and the way we want them to treat others. Our parenting style is based on trust and respect - they trust us not to hurt them; we respect their thoughts and opinions (even if we don't always agree with them, we listedn to them), and they trust that we will deal with issues fairly and consistently. From that comes respect for us.

There's nothing about spanking that fostors trust or respect.


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## nd_deadhead (Sep 22, 2005)

Oh, and I forgot to add the sound bite:

If you can raise polite, respectful, well-behaved children without resorting to hitting them, wouldn't you want to?


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## PreggieUBA2C (Mar 20, 2007)

I guess the first thing I would do is to stop calling hitting children 'spanking.' Then whatever you discuss can at least be understood for what it is. Instead of asking why we shouldn't 'spank' children, we would be discussing why we shouldn't HIT children, which for me is simply a discussion about why we shouldn't HIT (anyone), because it is a form of violence, abuse, complete lack of understanding of who we are as human beings and who others are to each of us.

Hitting just isn't within my repertoire of options when I don't like how someone is behaving or responding, or whatever. It isn't in my repertoire of coping mechanisms when I don't receive what I'm expecting, just like shooting, stabbing, shoving, maiming, slashing, etc... are not. All of these are clearly actions that I am capable of taking, but I choose as a conscious person to take actions that benefit- that _create_- rather than injure and destroy.

These are fundamental principles by which I live, and hitting children just fits right in there with the rest of things that are not congruent with my understanding of life and human interaction.

One of the most helpful ideas for me when I am upset is to recognise that my upset is my signal that something is out of alignment with my consciousness. If I persist in my upset, I have stopped considering options and have stopped acting according to the innate creativity within me (and every human being). I have therefore begun to waste and thereby destroy- the opposite of creativity and who I am. SO, when I am upset, I must consciously choose to create- to consider options, to change myself or my situation, and to do so with the intention of the greatest benefit.

Again, hitting is so far removed from creativity that it simply doesn't even register on my radar for considering creative ways/options for living consciously with others and myself.

It's not about 'spanking.' It's about who you think you are and who you think others are. If you see others and yourself as innately infinitely valuable, you won't have to think of arguments against hitting; it won't ever be an option.

To be reeeeealy clear, you are not in the position of considering arguments against raping children. Think of hitting as being the same. At its core, I believe it is.


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## Funny Face (Dec 7, 2006)

I love all the above reasons. I came from a spanking background and a community that largely still condones it so I've been where you are.

One of my biggest hurdles was the religious crowd saying that the Bible endorses spanking. It might not be an issue for you but I knew I wanted to follow what the Bible said was good for our kids, but I had a good idea that the scriptures were being misinterpreted.

Here's from Dr. Sears' Website

Quote:

HITTING IS ACTUALLY NOT BIBLICAL
Don't use the Bible as an excuse to spank. There is confusion in the ranks of people of Judeo-Christian heritage who, seeking help from the Bible in their effort to raise godly children, believe that God commands them to spank. They take "spare the rod and spoil the child" seriously and fear that if they don't spank, they will commit the sin of losing control of their child. In our counseling experience, we find that these people are devoted parents who love God and love their children, but they misunderstand the concept of the rod.

Rod verses - what they really mean. The following are the biblical verseswhich have caused the greatest confusion:

"Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him." (Prov. 22:15)

"He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him." (Prov. 13:24)

"Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die. Punish him with the rod and save his soul from death." (Prov. 23:13-14)

"The rod of correction imparts wisdom, but a child left to itself disgraces his mother." (Prov. 29:15)

At first glance these verses may sound pro-spanking. But you might consider a different interpretation of these teachings. "Rod" (shebet) means different things in different parts of the Bible. The Hebrew dictionary gives this word various meanings: a stick (for punishment, writing, fighting, ruling, walking, etc.). While the rod could be used for hitting, it was more frequently used for guiding wandering sheep. Shepherds didn't use the rod to beat their sheep - and children are certainly more valuable than sheep. As shepherd-author Philip Keller teaches so well in A Shepherd Looks At Psalm 23, the shepherd's rod was used to fight off prey and the staff was used to gently guide sheep along the right path. ("Your rod and your staff, they comfort me." - Psalm 23:4).

Jewish families we've interviewed, who carefully follow dietary and lifestyle guidelines in the Scripture, do not practice "rod correction" with their children because they do not follow that interpretation of the text.

The book of Proverbs is one of poetry. It is logical that the writer would have used a well-known tool to form an image of authority. We believe that this is the point that God makes about the rod in the Bible - parents take charge of your children. When you re-read the "rod verses," use the concept of parental authority when you come to the word "rod," ratherthan the concept of beating or spanking. It rings true in every instance.

While Christians and Jews believe that the Old Testament is the inspired word of God, it is also a historical text that has been interpreted in many ways over the centuries, sometimes incorrectly in order to support the beliefs of the times. These "rod" verses have been burdened with interpretations about corporal punishment that support human ideas. Other parts of the Bible, especially the New Testament, suggest that respect, authority, and tenderness should be the prevailing attitudes toward children among people of faith.

In the New Testament, Christ modified the traditional eye-for-an-eye system of justice with His turn-the-other-cheek approach. Christ preached gentleness, love, and understanding, and seemed against any harsh use of the rod, as stated by Paul in 1 Cor. 4:21: "Shall I come to you with the whip (rod), or in love and with a gentle spirit?" Paul went on to teach fathers about the importance of not provoking anger in their children (which is what spanking usually does): "Fathers, do not exasperate your children" (Eph. 6:4), and "Fathers, do not embitter your children, or they will be discouraged" (Col. 3:21).

In our opinion, nowhere in the Bible does it say you must spank your child to be a godly parent.
I also hear 'Well it works!'
I'd probably comply with my husbands wishes too if he hit me everytime I didn't. Anyone would. That doesn't mean it's _healthy.
_

Sorry so long!


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## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

Well do just a tiny bit of research and you'll find plenty to support the fact that it's at best not as effective as other methods in the long run and at worst, can be very damaging in many areas of a child's personality and life.

But for me, I knew long before I had a child that I would never spank. It goes back to one memory of how I felt after a spanking ... and btw, I had a pretty AP Mom and parents who loved us to death. But she occasionally spanked in anger.

Once when I was around 6 I got spanked. I don't remember why. All I remember is the pain, shame, humiliation and guilt .. and how hard those feelings were for my little brain to process. I remember laying on my bed crying, feeling so hurt that my Mom would inflict pain on me. Then I started getting mad at her, and in my 6 year old mind I had a thought about her tripping down the stairs and getting hurt. For a short second it made me feel good, almost like we were even. Then I cried even harder because I felt so guilty for having that thought and I would never want my Mom hurt.

Those are some difficult and awful feelings for a 6 year old to have to manage. That memory is still painful for me to recall. And I knew long, long before I had ds that there HAD to be a better way than spanking.


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## library lady (Sep 3, 2007)

If another adult doesn't do what you want them to do, do you hit hit/spank them? No, because there are other ways of settling the dispute. Plus, hitting/spanking another adult is considered assault. Why should it be any different with a child?


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## chipper26 (Sep 4, 2008)

Thanks for all of the thoughtful responses. It doesn't feel right to "hit" my daughter and it doesn't make sense that I get to hit her but it's unacceptable in any other situation.

The biggest argument I get that is pro spanking is "kids that are too young to reason with need to know they did something "wrong" and they shouldn't do it again or that something is dangerous."

I was reading about the "danger" example in the Dr. Sears Baby Book and there was a great example of how to convey urgency and fear (parental emotional fear) that helped the child understand not to do something like go into the street. She (Martha Sears) also talked about a loud warning sound she would make if a dangrous situation arose.

Isn't there a much higher expectation for behavior in our culture than kids are really capable of at specific ages.

Also, in a way, isn't spanking the "easier" way out because it's more of an after the fact type of discipline rather than a type of guidance that helps a child through a situation in an active way... dykwim? In other words, you have to be more on top of things and more aware of what is going on with your child? Most of the time it's more about control than anything else.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Because I hear tons of people say "my parents *had* to spank me because I did XYZ", but you never seem to see anyone say "my parents *should* have spanked me."

And XYZ is generally some horrible thing that I never would've done and I can't help thinking "so getting hit as a child turned you into a teenager who was capable of *that*?"

And read the "how is this discipline?" thread for a great example of a lazy use of hitting for discipline.


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## puddle (Aug 30, 2007)

There are a million reasons why I wouldn't spank, but here are my main three:

1. Everything about it feels wrong to me. It makes me sick to my stomach to think about hurting my little girl. The best advice I ever received about parenting was to trust my gut, and my gut does not condone spanking.

2. There is ALWAYS a better way. Whenever anyone tries to argue for spanking with me, I ask them to give me a specific instance when spanking is appropriate. When they describe one, I can always find a different way to deal with it.

3. I remember being spanked, and I never want my daughter to feel what I felt then.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Hitting doesn't teach and it's not acceptable.

Would you hit an elderly Alzheimer's patient to teach them something?

-Angela


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## NaturalMindedMomma (Feb 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Hitting doesn't teach and it's not acceptable.

*Would you hit an elderly Alzheimer's patient to teach them something?* -Angela

It may sound horrible, but I would have liked to a few times while I was working in a nursing home. Course I never DID.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NaturalMindedMomma* 
It may sound horrible, but I would have liked to a few times while I was working in a nursing home. Course I never DID.

It sounds human









I think, as parents, there are times we are all tempted to hit. We are the adults though and know better.

-Angela


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## alexsam (May 10, 2005)

First, how would I reconcile when I tell my child "Don't hit. Hitting isn't good!" and then I... hit him!?!? How do I raise an ethical and stable child with such an important topic and such a mixed message? How do I raise sons with experience of hitting as a tool of control?

Second, I would do anything as a mother to protect my child from unecessary pain I could have prevented (physical and emotional). It is contrary to INFLICT it. Sure, there will be some pain in their life, but should I be the CAUSE of it? I think my role is much better as a mentor, a healer, a protector. Imagining my child being hit just makes me... nuts with mommy rage.

There are LOTS of ways to indicate that a child has done something wrong or there is danger. First, a child will KNOW danger in your voice. My husband calls it "the crazy mom" and it stops EVERYONE in their tracks. When you see your child stepping into danger and scream their name with that crazy mom voice (that you can't even help) they KNOW that danger is near. The few times I have used it, my son, even as a toddler, would stop dead in his tracks, look up and cry because he knew he was afraid for himself. My job was to rescue him and protect him. Why would I hit him?

As for knowing they have done wrong- by the time they are doing wrong "on purpose", they absolutely can tell by the tone of your voice and your actions that you are upset with them. And if things progress beyond that, well, there are many other tools.

Honestly, they are so small, so fragile and vulerable. So innocent and trusting. To hurt them (yes, hitting is what "spanking" really is and the objective is to hurt them) is so contrary to my role as a parent and just hurts ME to think about it...


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## amandaleigh37 (Jul 13, 2006)

Children learn best through example. What would we be teaching them by spanking? ("When you get to be an adult, then you can hit too"?)

I'd much rather take the hard road of self-control and finding other ways to teach my child what is appropriate, because those are the characteristics I want him to develop himself over time. Not fearing me.


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## LilacMama (Aug 18, 2008)

I hear you , OP. The only kid my husband EVER knew growing up who wasn't spanked was AWFUL. She was a 10 year old brat who would BITE people! She had major emotional/boundary issues. EVERYONE who knew her thought it was BECAUSE she wasn't spanked! So, that's my husband's frame of reference. I don't (to my knowledge) know ANY kids who weren't spanked. But it just feel SOOOO wrong to me ( and did, as a child ). I believe kids need boundaries, and FIRM discipline. I am no pushover. But there must be a better, gentler way. It's nice to know others are searching for it, also. Best wishes to you and your family.


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

Because I wont hit my kids

Because I want them to respect me and themselves

Because I value my relationship with them, and hitting them breaks that down

Because it's immature to hit people. Three year olds do it. 30 year olds, let's hope, have moved on with other challenges relevant to three year olds, so I lump this one in to the bunch.

Because reacting out of anger is usually a really bad idea

Because if I'm calm enough to be rational, I'm calm enough not to hit my kid


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## _betsy_ (Jun 29, 2004)

Hands are not for hitting.

How can I expect my children not to hit to get their way when I hit them to get my way? It's called responsible modeling, and I have to be able to show my children a better way to deal with anger/disappointment/other emotions than through physical violence.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I would say that I don't think spanking is right just because society does. It wasn't to long ago that society thought that it was a man's right to beat his wife and that no one should interfere with that right. Kids are smaller than women are and are less able to escape the abusers who birthed them because of that. If kids were able to escape and push for change in a way that was respected like women did people would not still be hitting them. They would view hitting small people as something that is just as immoral as hitting a wife.


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## bebebradford (Apr 4, 2008)

So I have a few questions as well.. I have a 2 1/2 year old boy.. He's very intelligent. VERY strong willed. I ALWAYS try to bend down and maintain eye contact to explain to him what he's doing is wrong.. then try to give him other options. YET.. sometimes he DOES NOT CARE. I've tried time out.. and he will scream for hours on end. I'm very consistent.. yet so is HE! LOL
i was raised with spanking. I do NOT condone abuse.. EVER.. but I want to know reasons as to why a gentle swat on the butt is counterproductive. I had the previous notion that when a child is that young.. sometimes it's hard for them to get the idea that something could be dangerous(one of our battles is him wanting to open the living room door.. he can unlock the deadbolt). That is a VERY VERY serious situation.. and he does not understand the danger no matter how much I explain why it's wrong.. I do not think he fully grasps the concept. My mother says that if a child is repeating a behavior that could get them hurt.. then spanking on the bottom is acceptable. That way the child really realizes it's a BIG deal. I don't know what to think about all of it right now..I know I MUST protect my child.. and I want him to be well behaved(which for the most part he's an angel compared to all my friend's children that don't discipline )... So any alternatives? Methods that work?


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## puddle (Aug 30, 2007)

bebebradford - a 2 1/2 year old can't be expected to keep himself safe. You can either install one of those locks they put at the top of doors to make it impossible for your son to open the door, or you can make sure that he never has the opportunity to open the door himself. Spanking him will not necessarily prevent him from opening the door, and I would never expect him to have that impulse control at his age. It isn't really age appropriate. If you show him your fear in your voice when he opens the door, he will grasp the seriousness better than if you give him the confusing and unrelated punishment of hitting him, but I still wouldn't put the responsibility of controlling his impulses on such a young child. You need to be the one to keep him safe.


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## alexsam (May 10, 2005)

Right- he is 2.5, the impulse control is not there and it is your responsibility to keep him safe by installing another kind of lock or whatever. You hitting him might "work" in a Pavlovian way (I open the door and I get hit. That hurts, so I won't open the door... probably), but it is not only a painful and damaging way to learn, it is not really effective in the long run (when does it end?). You can manage a lot of childrens behaviors by working on fear and pain, but it doesn't help them grow, it doesn't help your relationship, and it doesn't work in the long run.

If something is dangerous for our children, it is OUR job to make their environment safe. At some point, they learn these dangers and then we pass on that responsibility to them as they learn about them. It is a natural process. At 2.5, I had the house on virtual lock-down. No small toys for the mouth, slips on the door knobs, locks on the cabinets... Now ds1 is 4. He knows the danger of going outside without me and so we took the baby lock off the door, for example. He has toys with little tiny pieces. Your son WILL understand the dangers as he gets older, and so for now making his environment safe is YOUR job, not his.

And yes, many toddlers have strong wills. But think about it: Do you really want your position in life to be your will dominating his? You talk proudly of your own strong will (which I also think can be a very good thing). I would think the goal is to work _with_ him in encouraging personal strength, not to crush it. It can be frustrating, but really effective and positive discipline is about learning the lesson at the right time, not about following orders.

Stepping back from our parents and deciding to parent differently can be very hard on both the adult child and her parents. The parent can feel that their child is saying they did not do a good job raising them, the adult child can feel like "well, I turned out OK but something still bothers me about this and the idea that it was wrong is upsetting because now I have to rethink this whole thing".

"A swat on the butt" is still hitting to hurt and using that fear and pain to control. There are other ways.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

It just felt wrong. I can't imagine my husband backhanding me every time I do something to make him mad. I couldn't imagine backhanding him every time he makes me mad... so, how would it be O.K to spank a child.

I learned early on to do ONLY what feels right, and not worry about what others do.

My child is 16, she's never been spanked, never needed a spanking, has always made good decisions, has always been open with me, and I haven't ever wished I was a little harder on her as a child.


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## lunamegn (Nov 30, 2004)

I don't spank my kids because in my heart it does not feel right to do. Hitting a child only teaches them that hitting someone to resolve conflict or as punishment is okay. Hitting in any form is not okay.


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## Attached Mama (Dec 4, 2005)

regarding strong willed children....
As parents we have the choice to set up a battle of the wills or to negotiate peacefully. Think of how you'd want a boss to relate to you at work for example...

This statement will work in almost any situation with a toddler to avoid a battle of the wills....

Ds, can you come to mommy all by yourself or do you need me to come and pick you up?

Ds can you get down off that counter all by yourself or do you need me to carry you down?

Can you use your gentle voice all by yourself or do you need help? (then I place my hand gently but firmly over dd's mouth if she needs help - to muffle her voice. She was great with it at first, but then it quickly lost it's "fun" appeal and so she got tired of screeching.

Anywya, then you are appealing to his growing sense of independence instead of trying to squelch it.

Id' also recommend The No Cry DIscipline Solution book for other great ideas.


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## Juvysen (Apr 25, 2007)

Maybe someone mentioned this (I only got about half way down the thread) but in my experience, spanking doesn't teach kids not to do something, it teaches them not to get CAUGHT. Wow, do we want to encourage that kind of sneaking around and dishonesty?

Wouldn't it be smarter of us to teach them WHY not to do something - not that they might get hit, but that there's a real reason behind why we're asking them not to do it. Of course, this only works if you're asking reasonable things of your children and not enforcing arbitrary rules...


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## bebebradford (Apr 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Juvysen* 
Maybe someone mentioned this (I only got about half way down the thread) but in my experience, spanking doesn't teach kids not to do something, it teaches them not to get CAUGHT. Wow, do we want to encourage that kind of sneaking around and dishonesty?

Wouldn't it be smarter of us to teach them WHY not to do something - not that they might get hit, but that there's a real reason behind why we're asking them not to do it. Of course, this only works if you're asking reasonable things of your children and not enforcing arbitrary rules...


First, I want to thank everyone for the advice! I know parenting isn't cut and dry.. and all kids are different. I did get a deadbolt up high for the door.. but he can stand on his little chair and open it. My house is set up with baby gates everywhere. The door he is trying to open is in the living room. I have my outlets covered.. breakables in the other room .. etc. I don't EVER leave him alone for long periods of time.. but sometimes when my daughter wakes up, etc.. I have to leave the room for a moment(or grab a load of laundry, etc). I try to make him not feel as though he's a prisoner.. but I don't let him have full run of the house. Tonight, though, I'm going to see if there's anyway we can install one of those chain latches at the top of the door.. My husband previously thought it wouldn't work with the way our door frame is.. but maybe I can come up with some sort of barrier!

In response to the above quote.. you make a great point! I DO want to teach him not to do it.. in case he is with my parents.. a friends.. etc. although their house is babyproof.. you never know. I don't however know if he can be TAUGHT not to do it completely. Like mentioned by others.. I agree that a young toddler's impulses are very strong. Believe me, I've explained countless times to him.. that it's a no no, and that he could be very hurt.. then mommy would be very sad. He just say " okay mommy.. exactly" Keep in mind.. everytime I say something that semi agrees with him.. he says "Okay, exactly." LOL.. but usually a few hours later he's forgotten about it. I AM going to keep at it though.. and make it even harder to open that door.

Thanks you guys!


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

As far as spanking kids for safety, so they won't run out in the street or some such thing. If you spanked your child, would you then be comfortable with them standing right by the street without being close by? No, of course not. You'd still have to wait until they were older to trust them near the street. So why not just keep track of them by the street? That is an issue of supervision, not discipline. You won't be able to trust a two-year-old near a street no matter how many times you hit him. So just don't hit him and be more careful to watch him near the street.


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## bebebradford (Apr 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
As far as spanking kids for safety, so they won't run out in the street or some such thing. If you spanked your child, would you then be comfortable with them standing right by the street without being close by? No, of course not. You'd still have to wait until they were older to trust them near the street. So why not just keep track of them by the street? That is an issue of supervision, not discipline. You won't be able to trust a two-year-old near a street no matter how many times you hit him. So just don't hit him and be more careful to watch him near the street.


Well, I wouldn't ever let my child stand beside a street. I was concerned about him getting out of bed in the middle of the night, etc and opening the door.. there's a street in front of my house. He has a baby gate for his room.. but I know he could climb over it if he really wanted to. I'm going to find another barrier for that door though!


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I don't mean you specifically - in general. My parents said that I might not want to spank but I'd HAVE to do it for that reason. I'd HAVE to or I'd be neglectful. And it's just completely illogical. Spanking a toddler isn't going to make it safe for the toddler around the street anyway. It does nothing for safety.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Oh wait - didn't finish.

BUT yes, for all safety issues involving toddlers, IMO it is an issue of parenting and supervision and not an issue of discipline. Toddlers are walking babies. They can't be trusted to keep themselves safe in any situation, no matter whether they're spanked or not, so why spank them?


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## bebebradford (Apr 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
Oh wait - didn't finish.

BUT yes, for all safety issues involving toddlers, IMO it is an issue of parenting and supervision and not an issue of discipline. Toddlers are walking babies. They can't be trusted to keep themselves safe in any situation, no matter whether they're spanked or not, so why spank them?


Good point.. thank you.


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## alexsam (May 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bebebradford* 
I DO want to teach him not to do it.. in case he is with my parents.. a friends.. etc. although their house is babyproof.. you never know. I don't however know if he can be TAUGHT not to do it completely.

But he might not equate _your_ door (and the spanking) with _other_ doors. He might learn to (or be trained to) NOT open your door, but it doesn't mean he knows about ALL doors.

And yes, he _eventually_ will be able to be taught that, but until then, its babyproof. Spanking won't change the rate he will learn and it won't really make him safer because it doesn't make him wiser...


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## KnitLady (Jul 6, 2006)

Because I remember the pure hatred and rage I felt towards my parents (they never knew). I also remember the humiliation and often the feeling that if they would just listen I could explain why I did whatever I did (it was often a misunderstanding because they only saw things through adult eyes).


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## KnitLady (Jul 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bebebradford* 
So I have a few questions as well.. I have a 2 1/2 year old boy.. He's very intelligent. VERY strong willed. I ALWAYS try to bend down and maintain eye contact to explain to him what he's doing is wrong.. then try to give him other options. YET.. sometimes he DOES NOT CARE. I've tried time out.. and he will scream for hours on end. I'm very consistent.. yet so is HE! LOL
i was raised with spanking. I do NOT condone abuse.. EVER.. but I want to know reasons as to why a gentle swat on the butt is counterproductive. I had the previous notion that when a child is that young.. sometimes it's hard for them to get the idea that something could be dangerous(one of our battles is him wanting to open the living room door.. he can unlock the deadbolt). That is a VERY VERY serious situation.. and he does not understand the danger no matter how much I explain why it's wrong.. I do not think he fully grasps the concept. My mother says that if a child is repeating a behavior that could get them hurt.. then spanking on the bottom is acceptable. That way the child really realizes it's a BIG deal. I don't know what to think about all of it right now..I know I MUST protect my child.. and I want him to be well behaved(which for the most part he's an angel compared to all my friend's children that don't discipline )... So any alternatives? Methods that work?

I would think that spanking might even make him LESS safe because he might not open the door for fear of being hit...until you aren't watching. Spanking tends to encourage sneakiness, not obedience. Install a better lock.


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## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

well, first because it's not discipline, it's punishment. it doesn't teach anything, it only shames.

the major reason i don't spank, though, is that i think children are people, worthy of the same rights to physical dignity that i have.

i have a right not to be assaulted, so shouldn't she? i don't hit DH and he doesn't hit me, so why would it be acceptable to hit her? i just don't get it.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

My most important reason for not spanking is that I feel very strongly that it's wrong to hit another human being unless said person is threatening a life and children are humans.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

It is always wrong to hit other people and living things. Physical violence is always wrong.

I wasn't spanked and that is pretty much why I don't!


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## Greenmama2AJ (Jan 10, 2008)

Spanking is a weaker discipline method. Its not that is doesn't work. It can. For a short time but just because hitting a small child makes them compliant doesn't mean you should use that method as a strategy.

Spanking is a short term way of dealing with behaviour and it uses a parents physical dominance to scare a child into behaving.

There are _many_ ways to deal with child behaviour without spanking.
If you need to use spanking to control your child, you need to research some more strategies and tools to help you in challenging situations.

To say that hitting someone is the only way you can discipline a strong willed person is ridiculous. How do you think people control and discilpine highschool students or jail in mates? They dont go around giving them light taps on the bum *rolls eyes* and, despite what you might think, they dont use fear either.

Using fear as a punishment method causes resentment and future violence. It quickly spirals out of control.

Think of your favourite highschool teacher?
Was the classroom out of control? Did they threaten the students with violence, punishment and fear? No?
Then why parent that way?
If a teacher can control 30 students, we can find ways to gain respect and control of our own children - and we can do it without resorting to hitting, screaming at or scaring them.


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## crunchymamatobe (Jul 8, 2004)

Here's what I saw at a playgroup + playground yesterday:

Toddler (age 20ish months) at playgroup is a smack & grabber. Not just snatch and grab the thing he wants from another child, but hits the unsuspecting child who has the thing he wants and snatches the desired object. Mother intervenes in calm tones. Speaking a language I don't understand very well, but something along the lines of "You don't hit. Play nice." The toddler persists in hitting, even coming up _behind_ a child on a ride-on toy and boxing her ears because he wants the ride-on. Poor girl didn't know what hit her. Literally.

Later, we see this same toddler + mother duo at the playground. Hitting other children got repeated "No hitting. Play nicely." in calm tones from the mother. But taking his shoes and socks off outdoors? "NO!" Smack! "DO NOT TAKE OFF YOUR SHOES!"

Poor kid was hit for a minor (in my opinion) transgression, so it seems little surprise to me that he thinks it's OK to hit others.

I was spanked occasionally as a child. My mother and I have a good relationship now and she would probably be very embarrassed that I remember this, but the two instances that I remember most clearly were spankings in anger after inflicting minor damage on household objects that my mother had just cleaned/installed. I can understand being at the end of your rope looking after small kids and trying to keep things ordered. But this gave me the message that things were more important than people and that hitting when angry was OK. Retrospectively, it's no wonder I tended to beat up on my sister when I was angry with her.

Hitting children teaches them that it's OK to use violence to solve problems and/or express anger. Absolutely not what I want to teach my child.


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## Juvysen (Apr 25, 2007)

I remember my mother trying to spank me when I was 16 (yes, SIXTEEN YEARS OLD) over an argument we were having. Of course, by 16 (and as an athlete) I was a bit stronger than her, so it's no surprise that it didn't scare me, I just laughed at her. How horrible it must have been for her to have no other tools in her parenting toolbox at that point. If she had been looking for other ways of solving problems all those years she might have been a pro at it...


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Juvysen* 
I remember my mother trying to spank me when I was 16 (yes, SIXTEEN YEARS OLD) over an argument we were having. Of course, by 16 (and as an athlete) I was a bit stronger than her, so it's no surprise that it didn't scare me, I just laughed at her. How horrible it must have been for her to have no other tools in her parenting toolbox at that point. If she had been looking for other ways of solving problems all those years she might have been a pro at it...

Word.


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## Sasharna (Nov 19, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Greenmama2AJ* 
Think of your favourite highschool teacher?
Was the classroom out of control? Did they threaten the students with violence, punishment and fear? No?
Then why parent that way?

This is absolutely brilliant. Thanks for sharing it!


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## bebebradford (Apr 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bebebradford* 
Good point.. thank you.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Greenmama2AJ* 
Spanking is a weaker discipline method. Its not that is doesn't work. It can. For a short time but just because hitting a small child makes them compliant doesn't mean you should use that method as a strategy.

Spanking is a short term way of dealing with behaviour and it uses a parents physical dominance to scare a child into behaving.

There are _many_ ways to deal with child behaviour without spanking.
If you need to use spanking to control your child, you need to research some more strategies and tools to help you in challenging situations.

To say that hitting someone is the only way you can discipline a strong willed person is ridiculous. How do you think people control and discilpine highschool students or jail in mates? They dont go around giving them light taps on the bum *rolls eyes* and, despite what you might think, they dont use fear either.

Using fear as a punishment method causes resentment and future violence. It quickly spirals out of control.

Think of your favourite highschool teacher?
Was the classroom out of control? Did they threaten the students with violence, punishment and fear? No?
Then why parent that way?
If a teacher can control 30 students, we can find ways to gain respect and control of our own children - and we can do it without resorting to hitting, screaming at or scaring them.


I agree.. thank you. I hope the roll eyes wasn't negativity towards my questions though..
Now, the highschool things.. and control is ANOTHER topic..I think there is an epidemic of misguided youth. I live in the south.. and yes, teachers paddle here.. they have to get parent's consent.. but even older kids are paddled. I don't think it's the teachers place to do that at all.. but they DO use that here. Teenagers , IMO, are really out of hand. Not all of course.. not even the majority.. but I do see it as a big problem. It's really sad.. I feel like they are being set up to fail in the future.


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## bebebradford (Apr 4, 2008)

Also, I want to add.. I'm not all FOR spanking.. AT ALL. That's why I came here to find other resources. I think some of you got the idea that I LIKE to spank.. That's not true at all. I was just telling of an instance where I didn't know what to do.. and I did breakdown and spank him. I'm not happy about it AT ALL. You have to understand.. my mother spanked me ALOT.. even up into my older years. Do I have bad feelings about it? Ummm.. some of the spankings I do. At the same time.. I did well in school.. I never disrespected my elders.. My mother told me she could take me anywhere as a toddler and I never ever threw a fit. I respect her for taking care of me.. She was a wonderful mother. Still is.. She kept me safe.. helped me to succeed, and most of all.. was my rock. I would like my children to have the SAME relationship with me.. but if possible.. I would like to find an ALTERNATIVE to spanking. That's why I came in here. Not to have people become sarcastic and talk down to me(which most haven't! ).I wanted ALTERNATIVES AND METHODS instead of everyone saying.. " Don't spank" " Roll Eyes".. etc. I'm trying to be the best mother possible. I put school.. career.. everything on the back burner.. because being a great mom was the most important thing I could ever do. Again, thank you guys for the responses. I think other moms have great advice.. and it's awesome to share.


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## chipper26 (Sep 4, 2008)

The reasoning that teachers don't hit kids but can keep an entire class under control (sort of) has been in the back of my mind and I'm glad it was brought up in this thread. I am a teacher, and I have a huge bag of tricks for keeping students engaged and "in control." Being positive, proactive and setting clear boundaries and expectations are hugh contributors to a successful classroom. Also understanding what is developmentally appropriate helps keep the expectations reasonable. If it works at school (usually works,) then it should work at home. We also try to use positive reinforcement and specific praise.


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## bebebradford (Apr 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chipper26* 
The reasoning that teachers don't hit kids but can keep an entire class under control (sort of) has been in the back of my mind and I'm glad it was brought up in this thread. I am a teacher, and I have a huge bag of tricks for keeping students engaged and "in control." Being positive, proactive and setting clear boundaries and expectations are hugh contributors to a successful classroom. Also understanding what is developmentally appropriate helps keep the expectations reasonable. If it works at school (usually works,) then it should work at home. We also try to use positive reinforcement and specific praise.


That's awesome! Hopefully you are reaching out to children on their path to success! I really support teachers, and anyone in the education field. It's a hard job, and there's not a lot of glitz and fame in association with it. Yet, there should be.. teachers are one of our most valuable assets in America.


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## chipper26 (Sep 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bebebradford* 
That's awesome! Hopefully you are reaching out to children on their path to success! I really support teachers, and anyone in the education field. It's a hard job, and there's not a lot of glitz and fame in association with it. Yet, there should be.. teachers are one of our most valuable assets in America.









Thanks! This really is the way you are supposed to teach and they have trainings and meetings to help teachers learn how to manage the classroom and create a positive learning environment. Of course, I have my bad days, but every year you learn a little more.


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## caro113 (Aug 25, 2008)

I didn't read the responses, but here are my top ten reasons:

1: Hitting a child is abusive.

2: "You can't hit people! So to teach you not to hit, I am going to hit you" ... can you spot what's wrong with that statement?









3: Parenting is not about being revengeful. Hitting is a parent's (or caregiver's) way of getting revenge for something the child did.

4: It sends a confusing message.

5: It is better to be respected than to be feared (and if you can figure out who asked that question, a cookie for you!) But really, think about it. When you were in school or with your parents, did you listen to what they said out of respect or out of fear? Do you really want your children to fear you?

6: Gentle Discipline is very anti-spanking.

7: It can cause a child to have low self-esteem and poor self-image. Also, it can eventually lead to the child developing depressing.

8: Is it okay for a man to beat his wife? Or a woman to beat her husband? How about an adult child beating their aging and (mostly) defenseless parents? ... then how is it okay for a parent to beat their child? (and yes, spanking is beating)

9: Hitting is abusive.

10: Hitting is abusive.


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## caro113 (Aug 25, 2008)

About the teacher thing: yes, they did use fear. They would threaten everyone with detention or with phone calls home or with the principal or dean coming into the room. They did use fear, just not physical fear. But then again, with the phone calls home, that can turn into a physical fear with parents who don't discipline well.


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## crunchymomofmany (May 24, 2007)

I think there is a difference in using fear - and using "fear." I have children who range in ages from 17 (in May) down to 1.5. I don't hit. When my almost 17yo was about 1, I vividly remember him hitting a little girl I was babysitting. I took his hand, slapped it and said "no hitting." It was an impulsive reaction by a first-time mom and I then looked at his crying face (that I caused) and hugged him and thought about what a dummy I was! I haven't hit since. I've been tempted...

But here's the thing, I do use fear, I guess, when I think about it. My children, I think, have a certain amount of fear in disobeying a strict rule (we don't have many, but there a few)...otherwise, they know I'll take things away - fun, tv, iPods (NO, not the iPod), what have you. My teenage daughter is 15. She went to the YMCA and then called me and asked me if she could hang out longer than our scheduled planned time with some friends. I said sure, assuming they were hanging out at the Y. It wasn't until I went to the Y at closing time that I learned she had left and went off somewhere! UGH!! I was freaking! I drove around town for a bit and then, through tears, drove home hoping my husband would no what to do. As I was telling my husband the story and trying to calm down, my daughter came strolling in - her and her friends went to Burger King!

Oh boy did I wig out - but I was crying and really upset and I think that scared my daughter - she didn't think how much her actions affect me, not just as a "mom," but as a person who loves her.

I have no doubt that this won't be the last time something like this happens - but I think showing kids our real actions and the real reasons why things happen is more important than being "the boss." (even though, I like to think I am)

Does that make sense?


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## caro113 (Aug 25, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchymomofmany* 
I have no doubt that this won't be the last time something like this happens - but I think showing kids our real actions and the real reasons why things happen is more important than being "the boss." (even though, I like to think I am)

Does that make sense?

That makes perfect sense. I totally understand what you are saying.

But coming from a teenage point of view (as I did this a lot) she never said she was staying at the Y. She simply asked if she could hang out with some friends a bit longer; it's not her fault you didn't ask where







:
Really, though this is the same thing as saying "Can I go to Jenny's party?" "Sure. Her parents will be there right" "Jenny's parents would never allow her to have a party without their presence" ... which would explain why Jenny's parents don't know about the party ...
Not that I'm condoning any of that, but it is interesting how teens try to get around all that stuff by just not fully explaining anything.

Anyhow Crunchy, I totally agree with you. I think allowing children to see your true reaction is definitely a great way of teaching them what they did was wrong without installing a physical fear in them. It seems to be a great teaching tool.


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## parent coach (Feb 23, 2009)

"Each day of our lives we make deposits in the memory banks of our children"
Charles R. Swindoll
Do I want my kids to remember the feel and sound of a big adult hand coming down on them - no way! They will surely have bad times and consequences in their lives to remember - this builds resilience. Spanking however builds resentment, anger and a focus on the spanking rather than the "reason" for it. It's a cop out.
Can you imagine spanking your infant? Why then is it okay to spank an older child?


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## crunchymomofmany (May 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caro113* 
But coming from a teenage point of view (as I did this a lot) she never said she was staying at the Y. She simply asked if she could hang out with some friends a bit longer; it's not her fault you didn't ask where







:
Really, though this is the same thing as saying "Can I go to Jenny's party?" "Sure. Her parents will be there right" "Jenny's parents would never allow her to have a party without their presence" ... which would explain why Jenny's parents don't know about the party ...

I know! That's what she said! And she is a good kid, who I hope I have raised to be open and honest with me (at least, most of the time, I'm not an idiot about teens anymore - remind sometime to write the book of my oldest, Matt) - so that's why I didn't "punish" her or anything. In fact, I let her go back out with said friends that same evening! But I think it was valuable for both of us in that she could really see how much what she does affects me - and I could certainly see that I need to be more specific, even with my good daughter! I'm ALWAYS specific with the boys now!









It was a HUGE lesson for both of us - I'm just glad that it turned out well and not into some kind of screaming, hitting fit!

As for the younger ones. I think it's hard to be patient all the time - I certainly lose my mind sometimes. There are times when I have to look at my 10 year old (especially when he's doing the "why are you so dumb attitude thing!) and say - "just go away from me right now...I need a minute." And the really little ones, well, there is just no excuse for hitting, I'm sorry. They are just too little and don't understand. The reason you think you're hitting is not ever the reason they believe they are being hit. All they know is that pain comes after...whatever. Or "mommy's mad." Or whatever. It's just heartbreaking to see parents constantly threaten things they won't follow through with (I heard a mom say, "we will never, ever come back to the playground again!" - really? never? I find that hard to believe) or slapping and swatting because they can't think of anything else to do! Use your words Mom and Dad!


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## caro113 (Aug 25, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchymomofmany* 
I know! That's what she said!

Thank you. That's the laugh I needed









I remember baby sitting once and the children were being absolutely horrible when it came time to leave the playground and I told them if they didn't start behaving they wouldn't be going back there any time soon with me. I kept to that too. I only intended to not take them there for a week or so, and we had another play ground that was much much closer (I didn't drive so we had to walk) albeit much smaller than the one they really wanted to go to.

Oh, I just thought of this. Do you really have a 15 year old daughter who doesn't have a cell phone? Because that's really a feat. And congrats on that one. (I ask, because if she had one, wouldn't you have just been able to call her cell asking where she was when you were worried? )


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## Greenmama2AJ (Jan 10, 2008)

I was the one who gave an eyeroll at the idea of "a light tap on the bum" for highschool students.

I just wanted to reassure everyone that it wasn't an eye roll at any posters on this thread









More so, it is an eyeroll at a society that advocates corporal punishment based on the idea that its "just a tap". If paddling in highschools was "just a tap" it would be totally useless on defiant, hormone driven, 15 yr old males - proof that spanking is a method that needs to get more violent to have any effect long term.

Also, I understand the idea that a person needs to have a "fear" of consequences.
But I would argue that spanking requires a _fear of the person_ giving the spanking for it to be effective. Whereas a person could fear losing tv time, IPOD credit, losing some type of choice or even the right to be heard - and they would not need to be physically afraid of the person for it to be an effective consequence.

Crunchymomofmany - "Use your words Mom and Dad!" LOL, I totally agree


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## crunchymomofmany (May 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caro113* 
Oh, I just thought of this. Do you really have a 15 year old daughter who doesn't have a cell phone? Because that's really a feat. And congrats on that one. (I ask, because if she had one, wouldn't you have just been able to call her cell asking where she was when you were worried? )

Yes - my daughter does not have a cell phone. We have one cell phone that I hand out to kids on an as needed basis. Like this afternoon my 13yo son has it because he is going to his first track practice and doesn't know when it will be over. When the kids are at the Y, they can use the Y phone if they need to call me - otherwise, we have prearranged pick up times for movies, the Y, friends' houses, etc. It's a pre-paid, no feature phone. I'm a frugal girl!


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchymomofmany* 
Yes - my daughter does not have a cell phone. We have one cell phone that I hand out to kids on an as needed basis. Like this afternoon my 13yo son has it because he is going to his first track practice and doesn't know when it will be over. When the kids are at the Y, they can use the Y phone if they need to call me - otherwise, we have prearranged pick up times for movies, the Y, friends' houses, etc. It's a pre-paid, no feature phone. I'm a frugal girl!









I was *just* talking with DH about this topic recently. How we'd get the kids firefly phones where we can program in 5 numbers they can call and that's it, or a featureless tracfone like we have with no texting and only like 20 min at a time....but no fully featured camera/text/internet phones, no way, no how. Heck, we both each have a featureless tracfone, we're not getting the kids better phones than we have.







If we can survive without texting/camera/internet, so can they.


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## crunchymomofmany (May 24, 2007)

my husband does have a fancy schmancy iPhone - but he got it from work and they pay the bill! otherwise, i have the "ugly" black, $20 tracfone - it's so funny, though, because in Vermont I didn't get cell service so I didn't even have a phone - I feel like I'm in the 24th century - or a Star Trek movie - just owning the thing!


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## transylvania_mom (Oct 8, 2006)

LOL at teacher/student analogy. I teach a second language to adults who could be my fathers (they are also police officers). Believe it or not, GD principles were very useful in helping me to be in control of my classes. I rely a lot on mutual respect, getting them to be proud of themselves and their accomplishment instead of saying that I'm pleased with their progress, working with their different personalities (some 50 y/o can be more stubborn than a toddler when they don't agree with you).

Spanking or instilling fear would definitely not work with them.


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## Ceinwen (Jul 1, 2004)

I was never hit or shamed as a child so it never occured to me to do so to my children.

Having said that, my G!d there have been days when I'd like to strangle my two.

Actually, that gives me an idea for a spin-off...


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transylvania_mom* 
LOL at teacher/student analogy. I teach a second language to adults who could be my fathers (*they are also police officers*). _<snip>_

*Spanking* _<snip>_ *would definitely not work with them.*

True...but t'would make for a whole 'nuther themed class...


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bebebradford* 
Well, I wouldn't ever let my child stand beside a street. I was concerned about him getting out of bed in the middle of the night, etc and opening the door.. there's a street in front of my house. He has a baby gate for his room.. but I know he could climb over it if he really wanted to. I'm going to find another barrier for that door though!









These might help:

http://www.toysrus.com/product/index...ductId=3502254

http://www.safety1st.com/usa/eng/Pro...er-Handle-Lock


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## averlee (Apr 10, 2009)

I don't usually say l'm a Christian, because l don't like getting lumped in with a bunch of weirdos- but when it comes to spanking, my views are very Christian.
God, our father, extends grace to us, his children. God is perfect, yet he does not hold us to his standard of perfection. If God exercised his wrath on us when we displeased him, we could not take it, it is too mighty. As Christians we must strive to be more like God. We extend grace to our children, and never exercise our wrath on them. They are small, to them we are mighty.


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## boogiebearlove (Jul 10, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nd_deadhead* 
I loved Sunflowergirl's response!

I'd like to add this: At some point, a parent has to stop spanking - you aren't going to spank a 16-yr-old, right? So at the point where you stop spanking, you need to develop a different parent tool to replace it.

Why not develop other parenting tools FIRST, so you don't ever have to change your methods?

We have raised our sons based on the Golden Rule - treat others as you want to be treated. That means we treat THEM the way we want to be treated, and the way we want them to treat others. Our parenting style is based on trust and respect - they trust us not to hurt them; we respect their thoughts and opinions (even if we don't always agree with them, we listedn to them), and they trust that we will deal with issues fairly and consistently. From that comes respect for us.

There's nothing about spanking that fostors trust or respect.

I really love this perspective of mutual respect, and it's something I didn't experience as a child, and I wanted to do with my children. I can see how this can be great for children - we'll say 5 and older. When they can effectively communicate with you. But I am at a loss with my 3 year old son. My husband doesn't really see anything wrong with spanking, so we have spanked. I hate it after the fact. But I can't figure out what do replace it with. He's 3 - I can't get him to understand the mutual respect thing. So I guess I really need to look up gentle discipline methods for toddlers and preschoolers. I can't see how it works. Not that I'm saying spanking is the right thing for this age group either. I'm saying I haven't found anything that woks!


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Keep reading in this forum, including old threads, and you'll find some good ideas. Hope they help!


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## phreedom (Apr 19, 2007)

I grew up with spanking. I myself didn't get spanked that much, but my brother got spanked all. the. time. When I hear people rail on about how kids "need" to be spanked or they will grow up to be inconsiderate/rude/whatever, I think of my brother.

By that theory, my brother should be a freaking saint. He should be the most well behaved, successful, considerate kid out of all three of us. Well he's not. And despite all that spanking, he was still a difficult child that acted out constantly. All spanking seemed to do was teach him to be sneaky about his transgressions to avoid being spanked. He's 22 years old now, but I really think that he may have benefited from something different. But really spanking is just something we were brought up with, it was just something you did.

It's amazing how often I hear people say "If that was MY kid, I'd beat the crap out of them for "that" (insert "offensive behavior" here). And often it is met with vigorous nodding in agreement.

Could you *imagine* the response one would have gotten if they had said "If MY wife ever spent that much money on a pair of shoes without asking me, I'd beat the shit out of her"? Or not even "beat the crap out of" but just "hit". My husband would think I was insane if I told him to bend over because I was going to paddle him for being late for dinner AGAIN.

Really the more I thought about it, the sillier it seemed to spank a kid. I don't liken my child to an adult at all. She's not my equal in terms of reasoning ability. (I'm sorry if others feel that way, but I don't) So yes, I tell her what to do and make choices for her. But she is my equal in that she's a human being and deserves respect.


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## Attached Mama (Dec 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *averlee* 
I don't usually say l'm a Christian, because l don't like getting lumped in with a bunch of weirdos- but when it comes to spanking, my views are very Christian.
God, our father, extends grace to us, his children. God is perfect, yet he does not hold us to his standard of perfection. If God exercised his wrath on us when we displeased him, we could not take it, it is too mighty. As Christians we must strive to be more like God. We extend grace to our children, and never exercise our wrath on them. They are small, to them we are mighty.

How I wish that all "Christians" took this approach. I'm soooooooo sick of running into the endless mentality that there are just times when kids need a spanking. Why in the world would someone want to hurt their children!?! It's beyond me!!!

We are dealing with an endless family battle over this - us being the bad guys because we don't spank, think it's wrong to spank and they can't agree to disagree ((sigh))


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## phreedom (Apr 19, 2007)

I freaking HATE it when my kid is being "bad" and people that know I'm not a spanker give me that "look". Or make comments about how if I spanked her she wouldn't be "like that." Okay, so what if you do spank and your kid acts "like that".

And even my parents who did spank. At least with me, I don't remember them spanking me for every darn thing I did wrong. Some people act like that is the only reasonable response for a kid acting like a kid. My kid is 2.5, and having and is dragging her feet because she doesn't want to leave the park...SPANK HER!







Yes, so then I can deal with the aftermath of THAT as well. Really as annoying as it may be at the moment, sometimes it's just easier to walk away from the tantrum, pick up the kid (kicking and screaming) and just remove them from the situation, or just ignore them. They tend to get over it quicker. Spanking them into submission does not immediately turn then into happy, agreeable, compliant children like so many seem to think it does.


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## Darwiniacat (Nov 14, 2008)

My #1 reason for not spanking is that, regardless of whether it damages the child, it doesn't teach the child why he shouldn't do whatever it was that he did. So, after you deal with the child's tears and your own frustration, you still have the task of teaching the child.


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## willowsmom (Oct 28, 2004)

Responding and haven't read all the replies... so I'm sure I'm repeating someone.

One of the main reason I don't spank, is because I believe it's wrong to hit. Teaching my child not to hit while still inflicting physical punishment seems hypocritical.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

Not got time to read, so probably this has been said.

I don't smack my daughter because in the heat of the moment i think losing control of one's temper is the very opposite of what i want to teach her, and after the event the idea of hitting someone who weighs a fifth of what i weigh and cannot possibly defend herself makes me feel sick.


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## pixiekisses (Oct 14, 2008)

Sorry, this will be long, but there are so many great posts I totally agree with, so I have to quote them.
However, I'm going to start with one post I didn't agree with:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
It sounds human









I think, as parents, there are times we are all tempted to hit. We are the adults though and know better.

-Angela

I've never, ever been tempted to hit. Not once. Neither has my dear.
And we never will be.
We've been parenting for quite a few years, also with teenager etc. (Se my signature.)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunflowergirll* 
My dh was spanked as a child, and so doesn't feel like there is much wrong with it. But I am ANTI-spanking. I hope I never, ever, ever spank.

My husband wasn't hard to convince, thank goodness.

My reasons were:

1. It doesn't teach. The purpose of spanking is to teach a lesson, right? Well what lesson would it ever, ever teach? There is always a better way to convey your message.

2. The only thing spanking conveys to me is "a big person can hurt a small person."

3. I don't want my child to ever hit someone. That means I can never hit my child.

4. If we were to spank, when would we do it? In anger? That doesn't seem like the right way to parent. When we're calm? We're going to purposefully inflict painful punishment when we're calm? That's even scarier to me.

5. Children who are spanked, are much more likely to have violent, anti-social behavior. Even if they are spanked "occasionally."

6. Spouses who hit each other can be arrested for domestic abuse. Yet, we can hit little children?

7. I want to teach my child to talk through situations, to take a step back and analyze situations before reacting. To compromise. To fit into society well. Spanking does not teach that, IMHO.

Ok, so those reasons are mostly emotional reasons. But, I felt strongly about it and my husband agreed.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *PreggieUBA2C* 
I guess the first thing I would do is to stop calling hitting children 'spanking.' Then whatever you discuss can at least be understood for what it is. Instead of asking why we shouldn't 'spank' children, we would be discussing why we shouldn't HIT children, which for me is simply a discussion about why we shouldn't HIT (anyone), because it is a form of violence, abuse, complete lack of understanding of who we are as human beings and who others are to each of us.

Hitting just isn't within my repertoire of options when I don't like how someone is behaving or responding, or whatever. It isn't in my repertoire of coping mechanisms when I don't receive what I'm expecting, just like shooting, stabbing, shoving, maiming, slashing, etc... are not. All of these are clearly actions that I am capable of taking, but I choose as a conscious person to take actions that benefit- that _create_- rather than injure and destroy.

These are fundamental principles by which I live, and hitting children just fits right in there with the rest of things that are not congruent with my understanding of life and human interaction.

One of the most helpful ideas for me when I am upset is to recognise that my upset is my signal that something is out of alignment with my consciousness. If I persist in my upset, I have stopped considering options and have stopped acting according to the innate creativity within me (and every human being). I have therefore begun to waste and thereby destroy- the opposite of creativity and who I am. SO, when I am upset, I must consciously choose to create- to consider options, to change myself or my situation, and to do so with the intention of the greatest benefit.

Again, hitting is so far removed from creativity that it simply doesn't even register on my radar for considering creative ways/options for living consciously with others and myself.

It's not about 'spanking.' It's about who you think you are and who you think others are. If you see others and yourself as innately infinitely valuable, you won't have to think of arguments against hitting; it won't ever be an option.

To be reeeeealy clear, you are not in the position of considering arguments against raping children. Think of hitting as being the same. At its core, I believe it is.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *library lady* 
If another adult doesn't do what you want them to do, do you hit hit/spank them? No, because there are other ways of settling the dispute. Plus, hitting/spanking another adult is considered assault. Why should it be any different with a child?


Quote:


Originally Posted by *amandaleigh37* 
Children learn best through example. What would we be teaching them by spanking? ("When you get to be an adult, then you can hit too"?)

I'd much rather take the hard road of self-control and finding other ways to teach my child what is appropriate, because those are the characteristics I want him to develop himself over time. Not fearing me.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *KnitLady* 
Because I remember the pure hatred and rage I felt towards my parents (they never knew). I also remember the humiliation and often the feeling that if they would just listen I could explain why I did whatever I did (it was often a misunderstanding because they only saw things through adult eyes).


Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
My most important reason for not spanking is that I feel very strongly that it's wrong to hit another human being unless said person is threatening a life and children are humans.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *readytobedone* 
well, first because it's not discipline, it's punishment. it doesn't teach anything, it only shames.

the major reason i don't spank, though, is that i think children are people, worthy of the same rights to physical dignity that i have.

i have a right not to be assaulted, so shouldn't she? i don't hit DH and he doesn't hit me, so why would it be acceptable to hit her? i just don't get it.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *caro113* 
I didn't read the responses, but here are my top ten reasons:

1: Hitting a child is abusive.

2: "You can't hit people! So to teach you not to hit, I am going to hit you" ... can you spot what's wrong with that statement?









3: Parenting is not about being revengeful. Hitting is a parent's (or caregiver's) way of getting revenge for something the child did.

4: It sends a confusing message.

5: It is better to be respected than to be feared (and if you can figure out who asked that question, a cookie for you!) But really, think about it. When you were in school or with your parents, did you listen to what they said out of respect or out of fear? Do you really want your children to fear you?

6: Gentle Discipline is very anti-spanking.

7: It can cause a child to have low self-esteem and poor self-image. Also, it can eventually lead to the child developing depressing.

8: Is it okay for a man to beat his wife? Or a woman to beat her husband? How about an adult child beating their aging and (mostly) defenseless parents? ... then how is it okay for a parent to beat their child? (and yes, spanking is beating)

9: Hitting is abusive.

10: Hitting is abusive.

I totally agree with all the great posts over here.


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