# Not Sure How To Handle This...Advice?



## Michigan Momma (Mar 13, 2010)

So recently my DD (2) has been asking me for things such as a sandwich (PB&J) and then when I give it to her she will tell me, I don't want this. I don't like wasting food but getting her to eat it has become an arguing match and she ends up winning. I find myself yelling in the end because I've become so frustrated because now I have a sandwich with no one to eat it. Normally when she gets a sandwich or something to eat so does DS. So if she doesn't eat it I can't just give it to DS and normally PB&J just doesn't appeal to me.

I've tried telling her that if she does not eat it she has to sit there until she does however when I do this she throws it on the floor! I'm at my wits end. I don't know what to do. How do I explain to her in a way she will understand that we cannot waste food? She's a smart girl and she knows a lot but she is going to be three in a couple of months and is hitting that stage where she is testing the waters....and I'm not sure how much more I can handle.


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## nina_yyc (Nov 5, 2006)

I'm right there with you mama. It is so hard in a culture that is generally pretty wasteful to understand why we cannot waste this sandwich specifically.

I give my DD really small portions and when she asks me for more I tell her that I don't like to waste and if she finishes she can have more.

I'm not sure how to really get the concept accross at this age, I just mitigate the damage.


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

I've had some luck with just emphasizing 'if I give this to you, you need to eat it. I don't want to see you spit it out' (We have spitting food out problems, not throwing on the floor problems.)That is successful about 70% of the time.

I also find if I leave it out, she'll eventually nibble on it. So when lunch is met with disgust, I don't make a big deal out of it, but I do leave the plate there for a few hours.

We get a lot of requests for something which when we respond, she is wildly hostile about the food. So I tell her, you don't have to eat it, but you can't have a fit about it either. I often leave the offensive food on the table and give her something else she asks for (which she often decides she hates too). At that point, the kitchen is closed and I walk away and let her sort out what she's going to eat. Usually she eats both items.

As for the food on the floor thing, just make sure you have clean floors so you can put it back on her plate.







And if she does throw it, she needs to pick it up and clean up her mess.

I've also told her no on occasion. I'm not a fan of controlling food intake in a toddler, but DD is sometimes ridiculous with her demands for food. She has learned 'I'm hungry' will get her food so she abuses it now and I have to draw a line so she's not overeating.

V


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## hopefulfaith (Mar 28, 2005)

I have had this issue with both of my kids, and what I have been doing seems to have helped a little bit:

-Tiny portions, and if they want more they can have it

-If they ask for something and then refuse it, I put it in a little pyrex and it's there for the next snack...I'm not providing six requests and then saving six requests, but if they ask for a PBJ and then don't eat it then that is The Snack for the rest of the afternoon if they are hungry, because I'm not wasting food. I absolutely won't make them eat if they don't want to, and I won't withhold food if I know they're truly hungry...but I'm also not providing a 24-hour diner: if you're hungry, there's that PBJ right there.

-I don't do a "sit until you eat it" approach since then it becomes all about the power struggle for the sake of power struggle and I'm not going to spend my energy doing that. If you're hungry, eat the PBJ I just made. If you're not, don't. I'm not making a different snack, though, because if you're hungry, you can eat the PBJ I just made...!

-If you throw food in my house, you're done (with dinner/snack, whatever). I didn't mind when my babies threw food, but my kids are 4 & 3 now. If they throw food, I calmly clear their place setting and they're done and may be excused. If they have rude manners like that, they must not be that hungry; if you're really hungry, you're going to sit and eat appropriately. They wait until the next serving. I need to add that this is a very calm thing for me; I need to do this so that *I* do not start yelling/tantruming myself.







I will not put up with rude manners at the table at all, and throwing food is completely unacceptable. It is one of a handful of things that is completely nonnegotiable and I will not GD it, shall I say. Throwing=done with food for right now, until they're calm and appropriate enough to eat with us. It does fit with the developmental ages of my kids, though; obviously, I don't know your dd to know if this is appropriate for her.
I need to add, though, that it didn't take too many times of reinforcing this concept that the kids understood that if they weren't feeling like sitting and eating, they simply told me that and I didn't serve them a snack, etc., so we tend to avoid the whole throwing bit for the most part now.

Good luck. It's hard not to make food into a power struggle, especially when it's such a consideration (time, money, ethics of wasting food) for us as moms.


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

If he specifically ASKS for the food, he has to finish, not all at once but before he gets anything else, that REQUESTED item has to be GONE, I don't care if it takes all day, if he throws it on the floor, mashes it with his fork, or chews it to a pulp and spits it out. It will be eaten before he gets another thing to eat.

Of course this icy cold heart on the matter comes after many horrible arguments and lectures on wasting food, and money, and time. I just stopped engaging in the struggle...If you ask for it it MUST be eaten.

I also give as SMALL a portion I can manage to make (like a one slice sandwich instead of a two slice sandwich) and insist that when he finishes that he can have more (this also usually means a lot of whining and tears) and often this seems to make him want to eat it more, to PROVE to me that he will eat it and he should be given the amount he asks for...but I am still skeptical.


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## kiwiva (Apr 17, 2006)

I think it's pretty typical for the age. DD has done that in the past and will sometimes still do it (at 3). I'd try to stop getting upset about it and definitely stop making her sit until she eats it. You will not win power struggles over food.

I'd give small portions and if she doesn't eat it, fine but she also can't have something else until she does. Don't get upset, just move on. If she is actually hungry, she will eat it. But if you get frustrated with her and make it into an issue, she is likely to dig in her heels and refuse (and make your life miserable!







). If you just say "I guess you don't want this now. But since I made you what you asked for, you can't have anything else until you eat this" If she throws it on the floor, put it back on the plate and say "I guess you're not hungry, I'll put this aside for you. Let me know when you want it" and go along with whatever else you were doing.


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## K-Mom3 (Apr 27, 2009)

I would establish a meal situation with fewer choices. I sometimes discuss with my children what we will be eating for lunch, but then I decide and that is it. No more discussion after that. If they change their mind and ask for something else, I tell them, we'll consider that option when we're making lunch tomorrow. Since your dd is only 2, you may want to just offer 2 choices for lunch or sometimes just decide yourself.

I have to admit, I do sometimes add something to a meal part way through--like if we're having sandwiches and I didn't get out any fruit, I'll cut up an apple to be part of the meal and let them eat that. I also let them have milk.

I also am a big fan of saving it for later. Put the sandwich in a baggie and if they are hungry, that is what they can eat. By the next meal, I'll offer the sandwich again but let them eat whatever is served for dinner.


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## Michigan Momma (Mar 13, 2010)

Thank you all so much for the excellent advice! I will definitely try some of the suggestions here and see what works for us!


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## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

We have a completely different approach. If my DD, age 4, asks for something and then doesn't eat it, if it's not something I want or can be easily saved we throw it away. Many foods can be salvaged and used in other things or eaten later. DD usually gets her own food, unless it needs to be cooked. It's important for us to never try to get our DD to eat more than her body tells her she needs because we want her to be a healthy weight. My DH and I are both overweight so letting my DD self regulate her food intake to avoid her developing social eating habits is important to us as a family. Most of the time her snacks are cold beans, salsa, humus, triscuts, cheese or fruit and can just be put back in the refrigerator or cabinet. The few times she has a sandwich or toast her health is more important than finished food.


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## Michigan Momma (Mar 13, 2010)

So I decided to try giving her smaller portions for lunch today and told her if she wanted more then she had to eat what was there first. I did ask her what she would like to eat and she ate it with no problems and actually asked for more and finished that as well with no problems! No arguing nothing...YAY! Thanks so much for the advice and support.


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## pianojazzgirl (Apr 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Michigan Momma* 
So I decided to try giving her smaller portions for lunch today and told her if she wanted more then she had to eat what was there first. I did ask her what she would like to eat and she ate it with no problems and actually asked for more and finished that as well with no problems! No arguing nothing...YAY! Thanks so much for the advice and support.

That's great!









I think sometimes the smaller portion thing helps too because (besides mitigating waste) larger portions can seem overwhelming to a little kid and then sometimes they just don't want to touch it at all. But give a small amount of the same food and it looks manageable to them. And they might even go on to have 2nd helpings that make the total food consumption equal what the original "larger" portion would have been. This is what I've noticed with my own kids anyway....


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## Just1More (Jun 19, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hopefulfaith* 
I have had this issue with both of my kids, and what I have been doing seems to have helped a little bit:

-Tiny portions, and if they want more they can have it

-If they ask for something and then refuse it, I put it in a little pyrex and it's there for the next snack...I'm not providing six requests and then saving six requests, *but if they ask for a PBJ and then don't eat it then that is The Snack for the rest of the afternoon if they are hungry, because I'm not wasting food.* I absolutely won't make them eat if they don't want to, and I won't withhold food if I know they're truly hungry...but I'm also not providing a 24-hour diner: if you're hungry, there's that PBJ right there.

-I don't do a "sit until you eat it" approach since then it becomes all about the power struggle for the sake of power struggle and I'm not going to spend my energy doing that. If you're hungry, eat the PBJ I just made. If you're not, don't. I'm not making a different snack, though, because if you're hungry, you can eat the PBJ I just made...!

-If you throw food in my house, you're done (with dinner/snack, whatever). I didn't mind when my babies threw food, but my kids are 4 & 3 now. If they throw food, I calmly clear their place setting and they're done and may be excused. If they have rude manners like that, they must not be that hungry; if you're really hungry, you're going to sit and eat appropriately. They wait until the next serving. I need to add that this is a very calm thing for me; I need to do this so that *I* do not start yelling/tantruming myself.







I will not put up with rude manners at the table at all, and throwing food is completely unacceptable. It is one of a handful of things that is completely nonnegotiable and I will not GD it, shall I say. Throwing=done with food for right now, until they're calm and appropriate enough to eat with us. It does fit with the developmental ages of my kids, though; obviously, I don't know your dd to know if this is appropriate for her.
I need to add, though, that it didn't take too many times of reinforcing this concept that the kids understood that if they weren't feeling like sitting and eating, they simply told me that and I didn't serve them a snack, etc., so we tend to avoid the whole throwing bit for the most part now.

Good luck. It's hard not to make food into a power struggle, especially when it's such a consideration (time, money, ethics of wasting food) for us as moms.











(especially the bolded, bolding mine.)

My ds (3 in May) spends a lot of time on the couch for chewing with his mouth open and smacking his lips. He was with some kids a few months ago, and decided he thought that was funny. So, when he does it, I warn him once (it is kinda a habit sometimes now), and if it happens again at that meal, he goes to sit on the couch (same room, not far away). He comes back to try again fairly soon, but if it happens again, back to the couch. I am just not sitting in a room full of lip-smackers. I am not.


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

At 2, I would not create negative feelings, nor would I want to fight a 2yo's will on this. I'd be afraid about long-term emotions surrounding food as well.

It's a PBJ, just toss it in a baggie and save it in the fridge.

DD has been doing this lately. She will ask for whatever easily occurs to her or what she sees, such as the bananas sitting on the top of the fridge. She'll jump up and down and ask for one, so I peel it and give it to her and she throws it on the ground.

Some things I've learned from a GD/US perspective:

1) She's bored and is actually moving to eat out of boredom.
2) She's dealing with food intolerances right now and is hungry but not sure what will help.

I imagine she must feel the way I felt with morning sickness. You're starving but each food you consider sounds pukey-disgusting.









Your DD might be deficient in a nutrient or mineral and her body is telling her she is hungry, but she doesn't know how to consciously choose the right food.


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## BetsyNY (Jul 1, 2005)

People get so messed up over the food thing.

I tend to agree with claddaghmom. Don't make food a battleground ever, but especially not with a two year old.

Quote:

If he specifically ASKS for the food, he has to finish, not all at once but before he gets anything else, that REQUESTED item has to be GONE, I don't care if it takes all day, if he throws it on the floor, mashes it with his fork, or chews it to a pulp and spits it out. It will be eaten before he gets another thing to eat.
You're not soliciting opinions on this, but I just have to say this isn't how I'd want to spend my time, forcing my child to eat. This makes me sad.


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## Just1More (Jun 19, 2008)

I don't want to aruge, but I'm going to offer another perspective. And then I'm done. I won't be commenting in this thread again. I really don't want to start anything.

I don't find that requiring a child to eat what they have requested, within reason, is unkind. It is about teaching them respect. Respect for me, for my time, for their daddy's hard earned money, and for the supplies we have. If you have demanded something of me, it is common courteousy to accept it politely and eat it, or attempt to enjoy it. Granted, at 2 or 3, this is a learning process, and I like to do it as gently as possible. But, now at almost 5, my dd knows that if she comes to me with a request, and has to wait to talk to me until I finish something (like changing a diaper), she is to WAIT for me. She knows it is rude to demand my attention and then run off. Ds knows that if he demands food from me, I will happily get it for him, but he owes me the respect of eating it. It is impolite to whine and argue and demand something else. I don't have to be a jerk about it, but I am unyielding. If my child were to destroy something I had made for him (like a sandwich), I'd be making another and presenting it to him to practice polite behavior.

I am not a restaurant, and I am not a doormat. And I don't think it's a good idea to allow children, even little ones, treat their Mama's that way. I can be firm, and fair, and kind, but I don't have to be abused at the hands of a two or three year old.


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BetsyNY* 

You're not soliciting opinions on this, but I just have to say this isn't how I'd want to spend my time, forcing my child to eat. This makes me sad.

Fair enough: FWIW, I didn't realize we were talking about meal times, I thought we were talking about snacks. FTR, I don't force him to eat it, he can let it sit there for all I care, but if he asks me to specially make him something between meals I _will_, but he's not getting _another_ snack or treat until he eats the thing he asked me to make.

eta:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Just1More* 
I don't want to aruge, but I'm going to offer another perspective. And then I'm done. I won't be commenting in this thread again. I really don't want to start anything.

I don't find that requiring a child to eat what they have requested, within reason, is unkind. It is about teaching them respect. Respect for me, for my time, for their daddy's hard earned money, and for the supplies we have. If you have demanded something of me, it is common courteousy to accept it politely and eat it, or attempt to enjoy it. Granted, at 2 or 3, this is a learning process, and I like to do it as gently as possible. But, now at almost 5, my dd knows that if she comes to me with a request, and has to wait to talk to me until I finish something (like changing a diaper), she is to WAIT for me. She knows it is rude to demand my attention and then run off. Ds knows that if he demands food from me, I will happily get it for him, but he owes me the respect of eating it. It is impolite to whine and argue and demand something else. I don't have to be a jerk about it, but I am unyielding. If my child were to destroy something I had made for him (like a sandwich), I'd be making another and presenting it to him to practice polite behavior.

I am not a restaurant, and I am not a doormat. And I don't think it's a good idea to allow children, even little ones, treat their Mama's that way. I can be firm, and fair, and kind, but I don't have to be abused at the hands of a two or three year old.


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## mamaofthree (Jun 5, 2002)

i guess i don't see the problem. just stick the sandwich in a baggie and put it in the fridge. if she wants it later then she is welcome to it, if not maybe someone else will be interested.
2 is really young, they change their minds often. you could just make 1/2 a sandwich or even just a 1/4 and that way it isn't so overwhelming. and if in the end you have to throw it out, you are not wasting that much food. maybe even letting her help make it (not that has ever seemed to work with my kids, but i hear it is suppose to work. lol)
i refuse to get into food battles with my kids because of how i was raised. i don't want eating and the pleasure of food to be associated with me being angry and the child feeling forced to eat food they don't want. as you have pointed out, this is a battle you can not win, she is in control of her stomach, do you want her to learn to not listen to her own body? because this phase will pass, but the feelings she learned during that time will not. so she might learn to eat when she is not hungry, do what others tell her without listening to her self, and eat foods she doesn't like or want just to make someone else happy. the goal is what you want for her in the long run, how do you want her to deal with food?

h

eta: this is a very very young child we are talking about here, and i think maybe we (as in the parents) put way too much emotion into an act that these little kids aren't meaning. we make the acts into some sort of mean spirited power struggle that they are doing to be hateful and disrespectful to us (as parents). i think a great book on parenting "When Anger Hurts Your Kids", it talks about what to expect from age to age and how to stop taking everything they do (the children) as a personal assault. most of the issues of parenting come down to us as parents thinking our young children are being mean to us and doing things to disrespect us when they are not doing it at all. do you really think that your two year old is disrespecting you on purpose? not honoring her father for his hard work, and thinking you are a waitress? or is that what you are feeling, and all that is really going on in her mind maybe the sandwich wasn't what she wanted?

h


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaofthree* 
i guess i don't see the problem. just stick the sandwich in a baggie and put it in the fridge. if she wants it later then she is welcome to it, if not maybe someone else will be interested.
2 is really young, they change their minds often. you could just make 1/2 a sandwich or even just a 1/4 and that way it isn't so overwhelming. and if in the end you have to throw it out, you are not wasting that much food. maybe even letting her help make it (not that has ever seemed to work with my kids, but i hear it is suppose to work. lol)
i refuse to get into food battles with my kids because of how i was raised. i don't want eating and the pleasure of food to be associated with me being angry and the child feeling forced to eat food they don't want. as you have pointed out, this is a battle you can not win, she is in control of her stomach, do you want her to learn to not listen to her own body? because this phase will pass, but the feelings she learned during that time will not. so she might learn to eat when she is not hungry, do what others tell her without listening to her self, and eat foods she doesn't like or want just to make someone else happy. the goal is what you want for her in the long run, how do you want her to deal with food?

h

eta: this is a very very young child we are talking about here, and i think maybe we (as in the parents) put way too much emotion into an act that these little kids aren't meaning. we make the acts into some sort of mean spirited power struggle that they are doing to be hateful and disrespectful to us (as parents). i think a great book on parenting "When Anger Hurts Your Kids", it talks about what to expect from age to age and how to stop taking everything they do (the children) as a personal assault. most of the issues of parenting come down to us as parents thinking our young children are being mean to us and doing things to disrespect us when they are not doing it at all. do you really think that your two year old is disrespecting you on purpose? not honoring her father for his hard work, and thinking you are a waitress? or is that what you are feeling, and all that is really going on in her mind maybe the sandwich wasn't what she wanted?

h









to all of that. It reminds me of when parents refuse to pick up their crying 6 week old because "he is manipulating me and has to learn." Not what I would expect in the GD board.


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## WinterPearl (Aug 29, 2009)

My 2 cents - Have you tried letting her 'help' make it? My DS loves to spread the peanut butter on his bread and helping carry things to the table. I find that when they feel like they made what they wanted it just might taste a little better.


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

We are born programmed to meet the needs of the ID "I want a sandwich right now!" and then our ego develops between 1 and 3 through interaction between the family and others...this is when we begin to absorb certain realities, like wasting food is not okay, mommy and daddy have a limited supply of food to offer, and some requests will be met at some times and others not at other times, and requests to meet the needs of the id must be made in relation to the reality of _others_ around us.

It is through our interactions with our kids that they then develop the super ego or their moral compass which allows them to find ways of regulating the needs and wants of their id and ego according to right and wrong.

Obviously each family will have different guidelines, and different amounts of resources. A family living in poverty would likely not even be able to give an extra sandwich throughout the day, and the child's ego will learn by age three not to even ask for an extra sandwich or snack but hang on until the next meal, even if it's a day away. The family living on limited income will likely teach their child that food outside of family meals is a _luxury_, not a right, and by the time they are five they may even make the basic connection about daddy's hard work and other moral issues that go along with wasting food. Those families for whom the reality is that food is not a limited resource will likely not have kids who consider this as part of their ego or super ego morality, so their id will make requests for a sandwich and then they may change their mind and it's no big deal, but not everyone can afford to throw out two slices of bread and a tablespoonful of peanutbutter and jam. Not everyone can afford to even give them that extra snack in the first place.

Additionally, some folks do not think it is morally wrong to throw away food. I do. We live in a world where about 1/6 of the planet is _starving_. Not just on limited food budgets, STARVING to death. We live in a part of the world where we see them every day. So before I judge a parent for being angry about food issues I might ask, how much does it effect their weekly food budget if three or four sandwiches a week get thrown in the garbage? Or how do they feel it will affect their child's vision of the woirld to grow up thinking food is a disposable commodity?

I don't at all view it as a power struggle between me and my child as much as me doing my job as the parent to shape my DC's ego and super ego and teach them what requests are reasonable and what requests are unreasonable. I don't in any way think my kid is trying to manipulate me through food, I think my kid doesn't understand that we don't have enough money to throw away food, that we use half rotten vegetables in soups and sauces sometimes. I think he doesn't GET IT that our neighbors' children haven't had a snack EVER in their lives, and it's morally reprehensible to throw food in the garbage. I think I have to help him understand that when we prepare food, we prepare only what we can and will eat, and that snacks are a LUXURY that we do NOT take for granted in this house. It's an issue of right and wrong, and it's my job to teach my kids that every day.

I see it as part of the development of his ego and super ego. Infants cry and get what they want because they can't regulate their needs and their needs are basic: hunger, thirst, sleep, comfort. Toddlers need to learn to work within the REALITY of _their_ situation, and Children should be developing their morality, and there is a morality about food for many people.


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## mamaofthree (Jun 5, 2002)

well i do take issue with that way of parenting. i did not in anyway suggest to just toss the food, but if food is that big of an issue then maybe saving the sandwich is the way to go. i don't like seeing on a GD board people bolding how they force their young children to eat food they do not want. i have an issue with that.
i grew up with food being a HUGE issue at my house, we had limited food, and there were no snacks really and if you didn't eat all of your dinner you got hit and sent to bed. there was a lot of stress around food and it got to be that i had to relearn how i see food how i eat and what is most important at meal time. we now have a limited budget and i don't like throwing food out, but i sure has heck would not sit my kid down at a table and demand they finish a PB&J. i get that so many people around the world suffer for lack of food, i get sick just thinking about it... that being said my children will not suffer being treated with disrespect because of it. demanding people eat food they do not want because someplace some one goes without does not make healthy eating habits.
make some muffins (PB&J ones) make them mini muffins, and then if the food is wasted it is about a tablespoon of muffin mix. i guess of all the wacky things kids can do, throwing out 1/4 of a sandwich isn't something i am going to freak about. and i am not a big believer in all the stuff freud rambled on about, so i am going to take that kids that are 2 are not being jerks, and that they too can change their minds and they too need to be shown respect so that they can give it back. maybe instead of looking on all children as manipulators it would be best to look at them as trying their best, working out being people and give them the benefit of the doubt. but that is me.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

I was going to suggest tiny portions, but I see someone else already suggested it, you tried it, and it worked. Hooray! I have found with toddlers that tiny, bite sized portions solve MANY common food battles. I think they are easily overwhelmed by meal-sized portions.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I think turning food into such a big emotional issue as I'm seeing in this thread is a trip to an eating disorder. Make very small portions, if it isn't eaten put it in the fridge, and then when you're on your way somewhere, grab it, and if during your errands you hear, "I'm hungry" you've got a sandwich with you.

Guilt trips over PB&J for 2-year-olds? I don't think that's healthy.


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## BetsyNY (Jul 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hakeber* 
We are born programmed to meet the needs of the ID "I want a sandwich right now!" and then our ego develops between 1 and 3 through interaction between the family and others...this is when we begin to absorb certain realities, like wasting food is not okay, mommy and daddy have a limited supply of food to offer, and some requests will be met at some times and others not at other times, and requests to meet the needs of the id must be made in relation to the reality of _others_ around us.

It is through our interactions with our kids that they then develop the super ego or their moral compass which allows them to find ways of regulating the needs and wants of their id and ego according to right and wrong.

Obviously each family will have different guidelines, and different amounts of resources. A family living in poverty would likely not even be able to give an extra sandwich throughout the day, and the child's ego will learn by age three not to even ask for an extra sandwich or snack but hang on until the next meal, even if it's a day away. The family living on limited income will likely teach their child that food outside of family meals is a _luxury_, not a right, and by the time they are five they may even make the basic connection about daddy's hard work and other moral issues that go along with wasting food. Those families for whom the reality is that food is not a limited resource will likely not have kids who consider this as part of their ego or super ego morality, so their id will make requests for a sandwich and then they may change their mind and it's no big deal, but not everyone can afford to throw out two slices of bread and a tablespoonful of peanutbutter and jam. Not everyone can afford to even give them that extra snack in the first place.

Additionally, some folks do not think it is morally wrong to throw away food. I do. We live in a world where about 1/6 of the planet is _starving_. Not just on limited food budgets, STARVING to death. We live in a part of the world where we see them every day. So before I judge a parent for being angry about food issues I might ask, how much does it effect their weekly food budget if three or four sandwiches a week get thrown in the garbage? Or how do they feel it will affect their child's vision of the woirld to grow up thinking food is a disposable commodity?

I don't at all view it as a power struggle between me and my child as much as me doing my job as the parent to shape my DC's ego and super ego and teach them what requests are reasonable and what requests are unreasonable. I don't in any way think my kid is trying to manipulate me through food, I think my kid doesn't understand that we don't have enough money to throw away food, that we use half rotten vegetables in soups and sauces sometimes. I think he doesn't GET IT that our neighbors' children haven't had a snack EVER in their lives, and it's morally reprehensible to throw food in the garbage. I think I have to help him understand that when we prepare food, we prepare only what we can and will eat, and that snacks are a LUXURY that we do NOT take for granted in this house. It's an issue of right and wrong, and it's my job to teach my kids that every day.

I see it as part of the development of his ego and super ego. Infants cry and get what they want because they can't regulate their needs and their needs are basic: hunger, thirst, sleep, comfort. Toddlers need to learn to work within the REALITY of _their_ situation, and Children should be developing their morality, and there is a morality about food for many people.

Your relationship with your child trumps all of that. That's worth more than a peanut butter sandwich to me.


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## mamaofthree (Jun 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BetsyNY* 
Your relationship with your child trumps all of that. That's worth more than a peanut butter sandwich to me.











h


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## mamaofthree (Jun 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
I think turning food into such a big emotional issue as I'm seeing in this thread is a trip to an eating disorder. Make very small portions, if it isn't eaten put it in the fridge, and then when you're on your way somewhere, grab it, and if during your errands you hear, "I'm hungry" you've got a sandwich with you.

Guilt trips over PB&J for 2-year-olds? I don't think that's healthy.











h


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaofthree* 
well i do take issue with that way of parenting. i did not in anyway suggest to just toss the food, but if food is that big of an issue then maybe saving the sandwich is the way to go.

Which is what we do.

Quote:

i don't like seeing on a GD board people bolding how they force their young children to eat food they do not want. i have an issue with that.
I guess you're not talking specifically to me, because I don't force my kid to eat, and I stressed that I _don't_, but I do insist they finish what they _ask for_ before they are given more and I do limit how much they are given in the first place based on what I have seen them eat in the past. If they change their mind and can find another person to share it with, that's okay. If they want to save it for a snack another day or time, that's okay. If he wants to wrap it up and give it to our neighbor, also, okay...but one way or another it's his job to make sure it _gets eaten_ before he is allowed a different/new treat, and if he can't, it will take time before he is trusted with that choice again.

BTW, we haven't had this issue in about six months. So I think he has absorbed the moral code of this family and our community in terms of wasting food.

Quote:

i grew up with food being a HUGE issue at my house, we had limited food, and there were no snacks really and if you didn't eat all of your dinner you got hit and sent to bed. there was a lot of stress around food and it got to be that i had to relearn how i see food how i eat and what is most important at meal time.
As a recovering bulemic, I understand this very very well. I can see that this is probably a trigger issue for you, which is why you see this so differently from me. Again, I'm not talking about meals or basic sustanence, I'm talking anout snacks and treats that we allow when we can. Physical violence is never okay, not ever, and I am really sad that you were treated like that. But when I say "he has to eat it." I don't mean, by whatever means necessary, I just mean I am not about to let him feel like it is no big deal to waste food. It _is_ a big deal, and it's _his_ job, as a learning growing member of the family, our community, and a global citizen to feel and BE responsible for his choices. *It's also MY job to manage that process as well as I can.*

Quote:

we now have a limited budget and i don't like throwing food out, but i sure has heck would not sit my kid down at a table and demand they finish a PB&J. i get that so many people around the world suffer for lack of food, i get sick just thinking about it... that being said my children will not suffer being treated with disrespect because of it. demanding people eat food they do not want because someplace some one goes without does not make healthy eating habits.
But in our case it's not someone some place, it's people _in_ our community, our day to day lives. It's a part of his reality that I don't shelter him from, because I want that to be a part of his moral code. We volunteer with these people _as a family_. It's not just halfway around the world, it's HERE, and as citizens of the world it's very close to my heart that he understand that.

And we're not talking about food the child _doesn't want_, that I made out of the blue and said: at 12 noon you will be hungry and you will eat what I tell you to eat. Uh-uh, We're saying that a child, being trusted to regulate his/her own hunger, asked for a sandwich as a snack, then when the sandwich was made, changed their mind, and not once in a while, or now and then, AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN, for _quite_ some time. I'm talking about over ten different various snacks inside of a week or two with my kid (around age three when we hit the phase) before I started to say to myself "hang about! What the heck is this about?" And decided something had to change.

And I also wouldn't "sit him down" and make him eat it, but for the rest of the life of that food, if he wants a snack, there it is.

Quote:

make some muffins (PB&J ones) make them mini muffins, and then if the food is wasted it is about a tablespoon of muffin mix. i guess of all the wacky things kids can do, throwing out 1/4 of a sandwich isn't something i am going to freak about.
I think this is a _great_ idea. I also love the idea of having the kids help make the snack...a little messy, probably, but that's why I read these boards, to learn new ideas.

I also wouldn't freak about a _quarter_ of a sandwich left over. (I'm not trying to be that literal, so I am sorry if you thought that. I mean, c'mon, give me a _little_ poetic liscense. The other reason I write on these boards is I like to write.







) But I would expect them to make a decent effort, and if they didn't finish, they would have to wait until the next family meal or finish their snack.

Quote:

and i am not a big believer in all the stuff freud rambled on about, so i am going to take that kids that are 2 are not being jerks,
So...You don't believe in the id, ego and super-ego, or equivalents thereof? That's interesting. Do you have an alternative philosophy on the workings of the inner psyche? I'm always open to new ideas!

And of course they're not _jerks_, they're KIDS. They're ignorant, inexperienced and self-absorbed, but not _jerks_. Who thinks that? No one here said that and neither did Frued, so...







where are you getting that?

Quote:

and that they too can change their minds and they too need to be shown respect so that they can give it back.
Changing one's mind comes with consequences no matter what age, sometimes there is no other choice to choose.

Everyone defines respect differently, but I think holding them to the same standards as we hold everyone else in our family including ourselves as parents (with clear and obvious adjustment for the developmental state) IS a sign of respect, and it's how they learn to respect others in return.

Quote:

maybe instead of looking on all children as manipulators it would be best to look at them as trying their best, working out being people and give them the benefit of the doubt. but that is me.
See even though I assure you I _don't_ see them as manipulators you insist I do. They are *not* manipulative, So I wonder where this belief of yours is coming from, unless you are talking about someone else, in which case I apologize. I think they do need to be given room to learn what the boundaries are, but that does not need to come at the price of throwing one's morals out the window.

I suspect we agree on more than you think, but that perhaps as a volunteer and an activist for global hunger issues, I have a day to day connection to global starvation that I feel very strongly about passing on to my kids, and you are more concerned with not developing food issues for yours. I wonder how many little girls would still starve themselves if they held the hand of and was friends with a peer who lived for a week on what she was _given_ for a day. Cured my food issues pretty quickly, I have to say.


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
I think turning food into such a big emotional issue as I'm seeing in this thread is a trip to an eating disorder. Make very small portions, if it isn't eaten put it in the fridge, and then when you're on your way somewhere, grab it, and if during your errands you hear, "I'm hungry" you've got a sandwich with you.

Guilt trips over PB&J for 2-year-olds? I don't think that's healthy.

But who is suggesting any differently? (eta: not the guilt trps, the sandwich in the fridge.) I'm just explaining to adults _why_ we do that in our family.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BetsyNY* 
Your relationship with your child trumps all of that. That's worth more than a peanut butter sandwich to me.

Wow, what a vapid platitude.


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## BetsyNY (Jul 1, 2005)

Well, I disagree. And I can do it without name calling.









My relationship with my child is worth more than a peanut butter sandwich. I don't think the hard line on food at home does *anything* except demonstrate that whatever's going on with *this* sandwich is more important than the child's feelings. *shrug*

There are other ways to impart values around food, like composting, supporting food pantries, working in food pantries, and accompanying me to a local soup kitchen, all of which my kids have done and understand the connection to the value of food and the fact that some people don't have enough to eat.

And insisting that he eats whatever you make him before you give him anything else *is* forcing him to eat.


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## mamaofthree (Jun 5, 2002)

but the thing is it appears that you are forcing him/her to eat food they do not want by insisting that A.) he eat it and gets nothing else until that food is gone or B.) he has to find someone else to eat that food for him. at 2 i just don't see this happening. i wouldn't really want my 2 1/2 year old going around the hood looking for someone to eat half a PB&J. that doesn't make since.
as for freud, i tend to look more at maslow. his observations of people tend to actually make since.
i don't believe that a child is really capable of certain things, as they need to have a higher level of understanding, when you are in the basic needs area, it is very hard to see someone else's needs, because you need to have yours met first. i don't really see how trying to guilt a two year old into eating a sandwich because someone else is going hungry really works. all i can see them thinking (although i believe this to be a very complex thought for a 2 year old) is "well give them the darn sandwich". i thought that many times as i was being spanked for not eating all of my dinner or not eating it fast enough. it didn't build in me empathy for those people, it made me resentful and angry.
i guess we will have to just disagree here.
also i wasn't talking just to you, but to what i got was the over all feeling on this topic, it felt a bit like when i was a kid. i never wanted to make my mom feel like a doormat, i just didn't always want to eat what i was given, or finish it. and so i guess i assume that my children, really all children, are feeling the same way. gee a PB&J sounds great, get it take a couple bites and think "naw, that isn't it". i don't see it as disrespectful. maybe because i too have moments were i think, man that sounds good, get it and think, naw that wasn't it. do i finish it? sometimes, sometimes it just goes in the fridge. i just think my kids get that way too. also, i went over my posts and i don't see that i called names. if i did and anyone felt like i was name calling i am sorry.

h


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## Carlyle (Mar 31, 2007)

Obviously there are many totally loving, wonderful and different ways to handle a situation like this. I don't think any of you are creating bad relationships between your kids and their food at all, and you all have different approaches that seem to work well for your families.

It seems like some people are thinking though that Hakeber's way of handling things is un-GD or is assuming the worst of children. Perhaps it would help you to understand Hakeber's way of handing things to think about it this way. For some families it's simply not a choice. Some families don't HAVE another snack available if the first snack doesn't end up fitting the bill. So the kid is stuck with the choice and "forced" to eat the snack before getting something else to eat (and maybe there isn't anything else to eat anyway). Does that make those parents horrible people? I don't think so. It's just a natural consequence of their choice...it's not the parents trying to be mean, or to show that their kids' feelings aren't important. It's just a reality that they can't waste the money on multiple snacks and wasted food.


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaofthree* 
but the thing is it appears that you are forcing him/her to eat food they do not want by insisting that A.) he eat it and gets nothing else until that food is gone or B.) he has to find someone else to eat that food for him. at 2 i just don't see this happening. i wouldn't really want my 2 1/2 year old going around the hood looking for someone to eat half a PB&J. that doesn't make since.

Well, I think we live in a different sort of community. So it does make sense for us. I also don't think my kid felt that way. He was angry that he didn't make a better choice, but he didn't feel forced. It was his choice to ask for a sandwich.

Quote:

as for freud, i tend to look more at maslow. his observations of people tend to actually make since.
Cool, I will look that up.

Quote:

i don't believe that a child is really capable of certain things, as they need to have a higher level of understanding, when you are in the basic needs area, it is very hard to see someone else's needs, because you need to have yours met first.
Maybe my kid was just more mature at a younger age, but I think they can start to and you can begin to scale things down to their level.

Quote:

i don't really see how trying to guilt a two year old into eating a sandwich because someone else is going hungry really works.all i can see them thinking (although i believe this to be a very complex thought for a 2 year old) is "well give them the darn sandwich".
Well gosh, I don't do that, I don't need to. We live it and see it. No guilt trip required. The explanation is for you, not him. The moral is inherent in the rule, until the child asks, and we give our kid lots of room to question and discuss. Even at two or three.

Quote:

i thought that many times as i was being spanked for not eating all of my dinner or not eating it fast enough. it didn't build in me empathy for those people, it made me resentful and angry.
Oh god, that is SO sad.

Quote:

i guess we will have to just disagree here.
probably.

Quote:

also i wasn't talking just to you, but to what i got was the over all feeling on this topic, it felt a bit like when i was a kid. i never wanted to make my mom feel like a doormat, i just didn't always want to eat what i was given, or finish it. and so i guess i assume that my children, really all children, are feeling the same way. gee a PB&J sounds great, get it take a couple bites and think "naw, that isn't it". i don't see it as disrespectful. maybe because i too have moments were i think, man that sounds good, get it and think, naw that wasn't it. do i finish it? sometimes, sometimes it just goes in the fridge. i just think my kids get that way too.
Really? I don't. I would _never_ make something to eat before I was SURE I was going to finish it. If I can't or I feel sick midway, and no one else wants to eat it, I put it aside and finish it later. I definitely wouldn't make something new before I finished that. Dh is the same way.

Quote:

also, i went over my posts and i don't see that i called names. if i did and anyone felt like i was name calling i am sorry.
I guess she was talking to me.


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BetsyNY* 
Well, I disagree. And I can do it without name calling.









I didn't call you names. Your _post_ was a platitude and _it_ was vapid. Just like you didn't call me names when you not so subtly implied I care more about a peanut butter sandwich than I do about how my child and I relate.








Quote:

My relationship with my child is worth more than a peanut butter sandwich. I don't think the hard line on food at home does *anything* except demonstrate that whatever's going on with *this* sandwich is more important than the child's feelings. *shrug*

There are other ways to impart values around food, like composting, supporting food pantries, working in food pantries, and accompanying me to a local soup kitchen, all of which my kids have done and understand the connection to the value of food and the fact that some people don't have enough to eat.
Of course my relationship with my child is more important than a sandwich. So far our boundaries and social values have strengthened our relationship, and brought us very close as a family. But I disagree, my child's "feelings" or in this case his whims and fancies are _not_ more important than our family's principles and our moral values. His feelings of safety and security and his need for boundaries and consistency are. These are the needs I chose to address, not his desire to be catered to like a wee prince.

even if I could, I do not think I would.

Quote:

And insisting that he eats whatever you make him before you give him anything else *is* forcing him to eat.
That _statement_ is absurd and shows you haven't read my posts.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Carlyle* 
Obviously there are many totally loving, wonderful and different ways to handle a situation like this. I don't think any of you are creating bad relationships between your kids and their food at all, and you all have different approaches that seem to work well for your families.

It seems like some people are thinking though that Hakeber's way of handling things is un-GD or is assuming the worst of children. Perhaps it would help you to understand Hakeber's way of handing things to think about it this way. For some families it's simply not a choice. Some families don't HAVE another snack available if the first snack doesn't end up fitting the bill. So the kid is stuck with the choice and "forced" to eat the snack before getting something else to eat (and maybe there isn't anything else to eat anyway). Does that make those parents horrible people? I don't think so. *It's just a natural consequence of their choice.*..it's not the parents trying to be mean, or to show that their kids' feelings aren't important. It's just a reality that they can't waste the money on multiple snacks and wasted food.

Thank you.


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## mamaofthree (Jun 5, 2002)

i am happy that you have never had a change of heart when it comes to eating. i am not sure what to say about that. maybe i am just lame. i don't even know.

having a house full of kids and seeing how different people act at the same age has given me a good opportunity to see how children behave at a certain age. all of my children have now been 2 or are 2 at this time, and i can say that my children are pretty average when it comes to what they do or have done at 2 and i still say that putting that ideal on a 2 year old is a bit much. but, maybe my kids are just i don't know? slow? young for their age? i don't think so, but maybe. i truly feel that that is a big heap of stuff to put on a two year old. lot more fore thought then i think they have, and i sure as heck don't dumb down stuff for them, i just don't think they set out to be "bad" or manipulate, or have malice when it comes to their food choices.
i think my over all issue wasn't with you, but with the over all feeling i have gotten from this thread. although you and i seem to be the ones doing the talking. lol

i don't have a problem what so ever with putting the food aside for later, i hope that didn't come out as something, i tried to make sure that was what i said. i just don't see how then continuing to offer the same thing over and over will work, but maybe it will.
again, i am sure all of my "food issues" go back to how food was presented to me. we didn't have alot of snacks, it was pretty much three meals a day and you ate all that was served to you, even if it was too much or stuff you didn't like. because that is how things were i promised myself (even as a child) that i would not ever do things that way with my own children. and this hit a raw nerve, the comments on yelling, the adults feeling like the kids were being disrespectful, the anger over food. made me feel really sick to my stomach. i felt bad for those kids. because that was my house! meal time sucked most of the time. it was scary and full of anger and fear.
i am not saying this is how it is in any of these households, you know the internet doesn't give the true feelings of the person posting, so i am sure i am adding my own stuff. i guess i just don't understand on whatever level, i am not getting it. or maybe, like i said, it is too touchy of a thing for me.
so hopefully some of that made since. lol

h


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Hakeber, I just wanted to chime in and say I agree with you. One of my sons (then 2ish) went through the same stage...."Can I have a peanut butter sandwich?" I make one. "I don't want it anymore."

"Can I have a bowl of yogurt?" I make it. "I don't want it anymore."

"Can I have crackers with cheese?" I make it. "I don't want them anymore."

"Can I have a banana?" I peel it. I offer it. "I don't want it."










In ONE day we often would do this 4-5 times. Finally I said no more. You asked for a banana. Now you no longer want the banana. So, if you want a snack _later_, the banana will be your snack.

He got the point fairly quickly and now he doesn't ask just for the sake of asking anymore. It helped him to THINK about what he wanted to eat, and helped him to DECIDE if having a snack then was what he really wanted to do.


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## minkin03 (May 28, 2009)

personally, i don't believe in making children eat their food. as a child i would have to sit (for what seemed like) hours at the dinner table til i ate everything and i hated that.

what i do with my kids (ages 4 and 6) is small portions that i know they can handle. if for whatever reason they don't want to eat something, or all of it. that's fine. they can leave it. but if it's not what i consider an adequate amount, for instance their veggies, i save the plate and they don't get dessert unless they've eaten well. this is how i've always done it and it works well for me. so if it were me i'd save the sandwich for later and/or leave it on the table b/c chances are he/she will go back and eat some of it.

also, i've found my pickier 4 yo is more eager to eat foods she normally wouldn't like if she helps in the preparing process.


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## minkin03 (May 28, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Just1More* 
I don't find that requiring a child to eat what they have requested, within reason, is unkind. It is about teaching them respect. Respect for me, for my time, for their daddy's hard earned money, and for the supplies we have. If you have demanded something of me, it is common courteousy to accept it politely and eat it, or attempt to enjoy it.

when i was young (about 8) my older sister was in charge of us younger kids when my mom worked. i distinctly remember one time i asked for soup (really thought i wanted to eat it) and then after she made it i decided i wasn't really hungry. she forced me to eat it. i ended up getting the stomach flu a few hours later. i will never forget how that made me feel, and how important it is to listen to your body.

i will save the food for later to avoid the waste (if and when they decide they're hungry). they don't get anything else til the finish it.


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## KBinSATX (Jan 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hopefulfaith* 
I have had this issue with both of my kids, and what I have been doing seems to have helped a little bit:

-Tiny portions, and if they want more they can have it

-If they ask for something and then refuse it, I put it in a little pyrex and it's there for the next snack...I'm not providing six requests and then saving six requests, but if they ask for a PBJ and then don't eat it then that is The Snack for the rest of the afternoon if they are hungry, because I'm not wasting food. I absolutely won't make them eat if they don't want to, and I won't withhold food if I know they're truly hungry...but I'm also not providing a 24-hour diner: if you're hungry, there's that PBJ right there.

-I don't do a "sit until you eat it" approach since then it becomes all about the power struggle for the sake of power struggle and I'm not going to spend my energy doing that. If you're hungry, eat the PBJ I just made. If you're not, don't. I'm not making a different snack, though, because if you're hungry, you can eat the PBJ I just made...!

I agree with Faith on this. My kids are 18 months and almost 4 years old. We don't have any food throwing (yet?) so I can't comment on that.
I think small portions is the key.
And if necessary I'll be playful with the presentation, like use an ice cube tray and put small bites in there so they can choose: grape, sandwich bite, etc.

I remember having huge fights with my parents over eating and crying as a kid and don't want to do the same with my kids so the 'sitting until you eat it' approach' really goes under my skin.


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Thanks, Anastasiya!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Anastasiya* 
It helped him to THINK about what he wanted to eat, and helped him to DECIDE if having a snack then was what he really wanted to do.

That's basically the point. I think about eating a long time before I decide what I want to eat. Stops impulsecooking/eating. It's something my dad never did/does (hence serious obesity and heart problems). I think it's really a healthy habit to form. So far it has really worked with ds.









I second the not making them sit until they finish something. They could be sick, or any number of reasons. I definitely wouldn't want a kid eating who wasn't hungry. Heck, they may just realize they'd rather play than eat right now...but not to:







the point but: it will be waiting for them when they decide they are hungry again.


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## karika (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *claddaghmom* 
At 2, I would not create negative feelings, nor would I want to fight a 2yo's will on this. I'd be afraid about long-term emotions surrounding food as well.

It's a PBJ, just toss it in a baggie and save it in the fridge.

DD has been doing this lately. She will ask for whatever easily occurs to her or what she sees, such as the bananas sitting on the top of the fridge. She'll jump up and down and ask for one, so I peel it and give it to her and she throws it on the ground.

Some things I've learned from a GD/US perspective:

1) She's bored and is actually moving to eat out of boredom.
2) She's dealing with food intolerances right now and is hungry but not sure what will help.

I imagine she must feel the way I felt with morning sickness. You're starving but each food you consider sounds pukey-disgusting.









Your DD might be deficient in a nutrient or mineral and her body is telling her she is hungry, but she doesn't know how to consciously choose the right food.










issues over food can lead to big problems later on. Accountability doesn't come until later. At that age, I asked what dd1 wanted to eat and listed choices, like a menu. If she didn't want it, I saved it or ate it myself. I almost always waited to eat after her for this reason, to finish what she didn't eat. I would also frequently (and still do) just make a smorgasbord plate with lots of diff things on it and bring it to our eating area (lr) and we would both pick off of it. The thing I have had an issue with is opening a banana. I was not eating bananas for 3 yrs and her dad didn't eat them either. We buy organic so it bothered us when she wouldn't eat it after asking for it. We started cutting it in half through the skin and giving only half. when you are ready for the other half, you only have to cut off the end... or stick in freezer and make a smoothie with it later....and luckily now there is dd2 who adores banana.... I agree that it is best to just eat it yourself or save it for later. Making a 'deal' of it only draws attention and then it will continue to be a 'deal'... and will lead to obesity or anorexia most likely, or any host of issues... now that she is 6, and recently her dad was laid off, I have explained, "this is what we have to eat" and she understands. oh and about intolerances... we went GFCF recently and her food choices have improved even more than what I thought was already great (she has always loved spinach)... and her mood swings are gone... food really affects us, emotionally, and physically at a cellular level. The energy of that food is taken internally....


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

In my house, I would offer the sandwich to someone else (4 kids - it's likely someone will want it). If not, I might bag it and stick it in the fridge. If it ends up getting tossed, it's not a big deal to me. I know others have food wastin issues, I just don't - so I'll be honest and say that so you know where I'm coming from. I mean, the pbj probably cost 5-10 cents, right? 2 yo's don't understand that, and there's no sense trying to get them to. It wouldn't even be an issue for me.

Speaking of PBJ's - you couldn't pay me to eat one now, and I think that my aversion comes from my dad making me finish them when I was a kid (eiherthat at he meal or the next time I was hungry, which often meant an old, stale sandwich - ick). I'd throw it up, it tasted so bad to me. And maybe it wasn't even the taste of the food, but the emotional power trip aspect to it that made me grow to hate them? It's the same thing with milk - my mom used to make me drink it (so sometimes it started to get warm). I promise I have not taken a sip of milk ever in my adult life.

I know people aren't saying they would literally force their child to eat said food then, or later - but the whole thing kinda gives me a yucky feeling. It really shouldn't be an issue, IMO. So, half a banana goes to waste (or it doesn't b/c I'll eat it myself) and your kid drives you nuts asking for yet another bowl of cereal and proceeds to take 2 bites of it - in the grande scheme of life it's not a big deal. I think the chance to do harm by getting upset or attempting to control what they eat is the thing to worry about.

Have healthy foods available, and set some limits (ie food is eaten in the kitchen), but otherwise be relaxed about it. It's purpose is to nourish our children's growing bodies - no need to get emotions mixed in there - that gives a different power to food.


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaofthree* 
i am happy that you have never had a change of heart when it comes to eating. i am not sure what to say about that. maybe i am just lame. i don't even know.

I think after visiting a Dalit village in the south of India and watching people roll bodies of those who hadn't made it through the night into the river, and having women beg me to take their babies with me to the rich ship full of food, so that they wouldn't have to hear their desperate cries for hunger anymore, I just realized that I had grown up wasting food in sickening ways and that I would never ever do that again. I knew then that I would devote my life to trying to make sure in way or another that I would work towards bringing awareness to the passive violence that occurrs in our world through starvation and oppression and poverty. It's a part of our everyday living as a family, and it's just a part of our world in that way.

I don't mean to be like, "ooooh well every day is about saving the world." But I try not to be a hypocrite. If I think we should think efore we eat, what we are eating and WHY, I expect myself to do the same, and I do. It takes me AGES to decide what to eat, and I PLAN down to the last slice of bread the food that we consume as a family. If ds is more hungry than I planned, I am happy to take from elsewhere in the budget, but not so happy if that food gets chucked...and dh is scotish, so you can imagine how HE feels about wasting food and money!







...just kidding!

Quote:

having a house full of kids and seeing how different people act at the same age has given me a good opportunity to see how children behave at a certain age. all of my children have now been 2 or are 2 at this time, and i can say that my children are pretty average when it comes to what they do or have done at 2 and i still say that putting that ideal on a 2 year old is a bit much. but, maybe my kids are just i don't know? slow? young for their age? i don't think so, but maybe. i truly feel that that is a big heap of stuff to put on a two year old. lot more fore thought then i think they have, and i sure as heck don't dumb down stuff for them, i just don't think they set out to be "bad" or manipulate, or have malice when it comes to their food choices.
i think my over all issue wasn't with you, but with the over all feeling i have gotten from this thread. although you and i seem to be the ones doing the talking. lol
That's fair. I have only been through _one_ kid so far, right? And my teaching expertise really is with older kids (11-22). I'll admit I frequently treat my ds like he is older than he is. But somethings just ARE, for us It's not me expecting them to understand a deep concept, just the basic facts of life, and it's where we live and it's who dh and I are. We work towards educating people in developing countries to change their world, and change THE world. It's our brand of religion, ya know? A Christian doesn't expect a 2-3 yo kid to GET "god" or church or "sin" let alone "jesus dying for one's sins" or other such dogma, but you might expect them to start to get that this family believes in SOMETHING and that something guides their every choice, and you'd still get them an Easter basket and Christmas presents even if they don't fully understand why. It's not a perfect analogy,







but do you see what I mean?

Quote:

i don't have a problem what so ever with putting the food aside for later, i hope that didn't come out as something, i tried to make sure that was what i said. i just don't see how then continuing to offer the same thing over and over will work, but maybe it will.
Well, like Anastasiya, it has helped DS to stop and _think_ before asking "is this really what I want? Do I really want a banana or am I asking to hear what it sounds like? If I ask and I do get what I want, will I still want it? Am I craving food or attention?" and it has helped ME to start to wait and not respond to the very first request and I stop and say "Are you sure?" and he knows I _mean_ it.

I don't think any kid is malicious about their food choices, BUT I do think kids can see food as a game, and the first time they get a rise out of mom by calling her hard worked on meal "stinky" or the first time they make her smile by eating it all up (who hasn't felt a little bit of pride and joy when their kid RAVES over something they made them), they realize they can connect with you over food, that there is a social element to food. They experiment with that. Not malisciously, but definitely not just because of hunger or lack thereof, either. It's like when a young baby starts throwing food..._huh look at that! That made mommy laugh. Let's see if I can do that again...wow that time it made mommy mad...I wonder why? Ahhh if I throw it on the tile she laughs, if I throw it on her shirt she gets pissed...look at that! Cool!_ And it doesn't mean they are cruel, or the enemy, but I think they should be taught, somehow, that food is really just for soothing hunger, not playing with, or to get reactions or attention.

Quote:

Again, i am sure all of my "food issues" go back to how food was presented to me. we didn't have alot of snacks, it was pretty much three meals a day and you ate all that was served to you, even if it was too much or stuff you didn't like. because that is how things were i promised myself (even as a child) that i would not ever do things that way with my own children. and this hit a raw nerve, the comments on yelling, the adults feeling like the kids were being disrespectful, the anger over food. made me feel really sick to my stomach. i felt bad for those kids. because that was my house! meal time sucked most of the time. it was scary and full of anger and fear.

i am not saying this is how it is in any of these households, you know the internet doesn't give the true feelings of the person posting, so i am sure i am adding my own stuff. i guess i just don't understand on whatever level, i am not getting it. or maybe, like i said, it is too touchy of a thing for me.
so hopefully some of that made since. lol








totally makes sense to me. My parents were weird about food, too. I remember once sitting all alone at 10pm in the kitchen still eating a cold steak and lumpy mashed potatoes (which I never would have asked for, since I HATED steak even then), with just the lamp over the table, everyone had gone to bed but my mom who was standing in the doorway begging me to just finish. I just didn't want anymore food. I didn't even want dessert or something else. Finally she let me leave and go to bed. It was like she had to prove to her sister and my dad and my sister that she could make me eat anything, and then there was my dad who just ate his feelings and still does. Food is wraught with emotion for me, too.


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Oh yeah, I should also say that a jar of peanut butter here in Costa Rica costs about ten dollars and a loaf of sliced bread about 3 dollars. Peanutbutter is a HUGE treat to us. We buy one jar once a month...I keep forgetting that peanut butter and jelly is to the US what rice and beans is to here. Not that ds has ever asked for rice and beans as a snack.


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Drummer's Wife* 
In my house, I would offer the sandwich to someone else (4 kids - it's likely someone will want it). If not, I might bag it and stick it in the fridge. If it ends up getting tossed, it's not a big deal to me. I know others have food wastin issues, I just don't - so I'll be honest and say that so you know where I'm coming from. I mean, the pbj probably cost 5-10 cents, right? 2 yo's don't understand that, and there's no sense trying to get them to. It wouldn't even be an issue for me. ......So, half a banana goes to waste (or it doesn't b/c I'll eat it myself) and your kid drives you nuts asking for yet another bowl of cereal and proceeds to take 2 bites of it - in the grande scheme of life it's not a big deal.

It can become a big deal when it happens over and over again. DH and I tightly budget our grocery money and if I have four kids asking for things but not _eating_ them, then that's an issue for us. We go through a loaf of bread in 2-3 days, so 4 wasted sandwiches would mean almost one whole day's worth of food. And bananas? I buy three bunches usually when I shop. 4 wasted bananas is nearly one bunch. So if I let them do the ask-and-toss thing, 1/3 of my shopping money is spent sending food to the trash. It's the same principle whether it's wasted glasses of milk, wasted bowls of cereal, wasted yogurt, etc....it very quickly can become a big deal unless you "nip it in the bud", and start making them really THINK about what they want before asking.

I think that's all hakeber is saying. No one's sitting at the table forcing a child to eat, but only holding them accountable once they do ask for something.


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karika* 
I almost always waited to eat after her for this reason, to finish what she didn't eat.

I like that idea, if you like what your kid likes.

Quote:

about intolerances... we went GFCF recently and her food choices have improved even more than what I thought was already great (she has always loved spinach)... and her mood swings are gone... food really affects us, emotionally, and physically at a cellular level. The energy of that food is taken internally....
I concede that I've _never_ thought of that. That's an interesting point, and something I will definitely be careful of in the future, especially with dd. Though I'd _really_ like think I can tell the difference between "







I changed my mind, mommy, you eat that, now I want...(fill in the whim of the moment here)" and "I'm sorry mommy, but this makes me feel icky, Can I please have something else?"

I certainly _think_ I know my kid well enough to tell the difference,







but I will definitely keep that in the front of my mind if dd passes through this phase, too.


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Anastasiya* 
It can become a big deal when it happens over and over again. DH and I tightly budget our grocery money and if I have four kids asking for things but not _eating_ them, then that's an issue for us. We go through a loaf of bread in 2-3 days, so 4 wasted sandwiches would mean almost one whole day's worth of food. And bananas? I buy three bunches usually when I shop. 4 wasted bananas is nearly one bunch. So if I let them do the ask-and-toss thing, 1/3 of my shopping money is spent sending food to the trash. It's the same principle whether it's wasted glasses of milk, wasted bowls of cereal, wasted yogurt, etc....it very quickly can become a big deal unless you "nip it in the bud", and start making them really THINK about what they want before asking.

I think that's all hakeber is saying. No one's sitting at the table forcing a child to eat, but only holding them accountable once they do ask for something.


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hakeber* 
I think about eating a long time before I decide what I want to eat. Stops impulsecooking/eating.

This part made me laugh out loud! This is so true of me. In fact, so much so that it's a common thing for me to imagine what I want to eat before eating it and by the time I'm done imagining I'm happily satisfied. "Nope, don't want you to pick me up a shake. Just had one."


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Interesting conversation...

We don't make food into a power struggle here. Food issues are not something I want to cause in either of my children. I also don't see how making a child eat something they asked for is going to solve world hunger. I'd rather do something a little more productive on that front, as someone above mentioned expose my children to the fact that some people don't have enough to eat through other means then saying "You asked for it, you have to eat it before you can have anything else." And really, if you are putting it in the fridge for them to eat later, why does it have to be the very next time? I am sure most of these things wont go bad in a couple of hours.

And yeah, DD has a very clear understanding of what it means to not have enough food. DS still mostly just picks at an assortment I keep accessable to him through out the day.


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Anastasiya* 
This part made me laugh out loud! This is so true of me. In fact, so much so that it's a common thing for me to imagine what I want to eat before eating it and by the time I'm done imagining I'm happily satisfied. "Nope, don't want you to pick me up a shake. Just had one."









I do that, too! DH thinks I am SO weird.


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
We don't make food into a power struggle here. Food issues are not something I want to cause in either of my children.

I don't see it as a power struggle. I see forcing a child to finish their plate, bribing a child to eat everything in order to get dessert, and making a child eat anything nasty grandma serves in order to not hurt her feelings, "power struggles".

Then again, I also require my children to sample one bite of everything on their plates and I don't see that as a power struggle either. For me, it's teaching my kids to develop new tastes and experience something different. Otherwise, they'd turn their noses up at anything that didn't look familiar.

Quote:

I also don't see how making a child eat something they asked for is going to solve world hunger.
I think the point is helping a child learn to make a decision and not waste money or mom's time. Solving world hunger - not so much.

Quote:

And really, if you are putting it in the fridge for them to eat later, why does it have to be the very next time? I am sure most of these things wont go bad in a couple of hours.
I think the idea is to eat it at the next _snack_ time, not eat it before getting the next meal.


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

I'm still completely lost over how any of these concepts, such as world hunger, learning to choose what to eat, eating it all, not wasting money, not disrespecting parents etc have any relevance to a 2 year old.

Or maybe every 2yo I've known is really, really behind on milestones. Heck, I can barely get my 16mo to understand what it means to wait 2 minutes.


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *claddaghmom* 








I'm still completely lost over how any of these concepts, such as world hunger, learning to choose what to eat, eating it all, not wasting money, not disrespecting parents etc have any relevance to a 2 year old.

Why does it have to have any relevance to a two year old? Just because my children may not grasp something at a certain age doesn't mean I do not teach them.

My newly one year old also doesn't "grasp" that biting my nipple hurts me and causes me to become irritated. But you'd better believe I'm still going to tell him "Ow!" and put him down so he learns! (He just did that - thus the example)


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Anastasiya* 
I don't see it as a power struggle. I see forcing a child to finish their plate, bribing a child to eat everything in order to get dessert, and making a child eat anything nasty grandma serves in order to not hurt her feelings, "power struggles".

Then again, I also require my children to sample one bite of everything on their plates and I don't see that as a power struggle either. For me, it's teaching my kids to develop new tastes and experience something different. Otherwise, they'd turn their noses up at anything that didn't look familiar.

I think the point is helping a child learn to make a decision and not waste money or mom's time. Solving world hunger - not so much.

I think the idea is to eat it at the next _snack_ time, not eat it before getting the next meal.

Any instance of having a child eat something they don't want to at that time is, IMO, making food into a power struggle. Best case scenario, your child is compliant and does what you ask, else the whole thing just goes down hill.

At 2 can a child really understand that mom and dad spend money to buy food and because of that wasting it is not good for the whole family? It's a fairly complex idea, I don't expect a 2 year old to understand.

Finally there has been at least one poster who has said their child has to eat what was made _before_ they get anything else, even if it takes all day.


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Anastasiya* 
Why does it have to have any relevance to a two year old? Just because my children may not grasp something at a certain age doesn't mean I do not teach them.

My newly one year old also doesn't "grasp" that biting my nipple hurts me and causes me to become irritated. But you'd better believe I'm still going to tell him "Ow!" and put him down so he learns! (He just did that - thus the example)



















I think I am just going to bow out of this discussion. It seems close to a trainwreck anyways.


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Any instance of having a child eat something they don't want to at that time is, IMO, making food into a power struggle. Best case scenario, your child is compliant and does what you ask, else the whole thing just goes down hill.

In your own opinion, yes. In my opinion, no.









Quote:

At 2 can a child really understand that mom and dad spend money to buy food and because of that wasting it is not good for the whole family? It's a fairly complex idea, I don't expect a 2 year old to understand.
Like I just said above, it doesn't matter to me how much the 2 year old can comprehend. And I don't even explain all that to him anyway. The fact of the matter is he will learn that he needs to think about what it is he really wants and if he truly wants it. My four-snacks-a-day-wasting toddler, at two, figured it out within just DAYS, so obviously there's enough intelligence there to make some connection that food is not to be wasted.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

I am sure there are other ways to do it besides "If I make you will eat it at some point, either this snack, or the next one."


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
I am sure there are other ways to do it besides "If I make you will eat it at some point, either this snack, or the next one."

With me, it's more like this:

"Mom, can I have a peanut butter sandwich?"
"Is that what you really want?"
"Yes."
"Do you want it now, or do you want to keep playing till lunch?"
"Now."
I make it.
"Mom, I changed my mind. I want to play."
"Okay, I'm wrapping your sandwich up and it will be here next time you want a snack."
~two hours later~
"Mom, I want a banana."
"Do you remember the peanut butter sandwich I made you earlier? Look! Here it is! Let's eat this first, and then we'll see if you want a banana, okay?"
"But I don't want the sandwich anymore."
"Well, Momma made it and it's sitting here for your belly, so why don't you run along and play till your belly would like it."
"Okay!"
~two hours later~
"Mom! My belly is ready for the peanut butter sandwich!"

Yay.


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Interesting conversation...

We don't make food into a power struggle here. Food issues are not something I want to cause in either of my children. I also don't see how making a child eat something they asked for is going to solve world hunger. I'd rather do something a little more productive on that front, as someone above mentioned expose my children to the fact that some people don't have enough to eat through other means then saying "You asked for it, you have to eat it before you can have anything else." And really, if you are putting it in the fridge for them to eat later, why does it have to be the very next time? I am sure most of these things wont go bad in a couple of hours.

And yeah, DD has a very clear understanding of what it means to not have enough food. DS still mostly just picks at an assortment I keep accessable to him through out the day.

I can't speak for all the moms, but as I said we live in a developing nation and ds comes along with us on our projects. Some of the friends he has made over the last four years go to bed hungry every night, so it's and awareness that we carry over into our household, as well. It doesn't stop when we head into the comfort of our, by comparison, luxurious home.

That's what I mean by developing the ego...these requests are a part of our reality, a reality DH and I have made the choice to exist in because I want to raise awareness and educate students in these communities, and help them change their circumstances and the world, and I hope that some of it will rub off on my kids, too. I TOTALLY get that's it's not for everyone, but I fully expect the people (children and adults alike) in my home to get on board. It's something my mom and I have had very heated arguments about. She comes and stocks the fridge with heaps of imported and very expensive food and half of it goes in the bin because one family just cannot eat as much as she buys. It drives me BONKERS! Whenever she comes to visit, I always invite some of our friends and neighbors from our service project over for dinner the night she leaves to help empty the fridge before it all goes bad. She thinks nothing of chucking left overs in the bin and I want to scream.

My rule about not getting a new snack until the first snack is finished is because in my experience at least with my kid, if I don't it will go off before anyone eats it, but more importantly, he can _remember_ the choices he made today...tomorrow or the next day, not so much. He can understand the rule better if I make the rule coherent with his choices of TODAY, ya know?

And I have to say I would love to strip my emotions from it, but I have a really hard time doing that. It's kind of inextricable from what I do as a teacher. But being a recovering Bulemic I know really well the sort of big deals that can create food/control issues, and I am really trying hard not to go down that road with my kids, believe me, I wouldn't wish that pain on anyone. I just do think wasting a bowl of cereal _is_ a big deal. Do that four times and that's a liter of long life whole milk that could have gone to feed our friends' little kids. I won't be complicit in that sort of waste. Not in our house when we could literally walk down to the _corner_ and give it to the family who live on little more than rice and beans and Tang,and who are living in house made of corrugated tin.

I don't scream (Not saying I never have, sometimes my feelings get in the way of being th parent I want to be, ya know?), I don't get physical, I don't refuse to discuss it or explain my reasons, I don't ignore their right to plead their case and explain their position, but I guess I do make a deal out of it, because it's that important.

I don't want my kids to have an eating disorder, but I also really REALLY don't want my kids thinking that it's okay to ignore poverty when it's convenient to do so or we don't feel like acknowledging it, especially since we are _surrounded_ by people and families who do think it's okay and who pay HUGE honking amounts of money to pretend poverty isn't right there under their noses.

I don't expect everyone to feel that way. I know there are other ways to teach about world hunger, but we take a more hands on approach and for now our kids are along for the ride. I really don't think it will do them any harm, but I guess only time will tell. In the meantime, it has been over 6 months since we had any arguments with ds about eating issues. He's nearly five and he seems to understand our position. FWIW, if he uses his own pocket money to buy himself a snack at the store, which he does now and then, he is perfectly entitled to throw it in the bin, but I would be very disappointed in his choice if he did (okay, unless it was rotten, but then I'd go with him to return it for a refund!







). As far as I know, that has never happened.


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## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

But Anastasia, don't you know that if you truly a GD mama, your 4 y.o. would be transferring food directly from the fridge to the trash can while you held your 1 y.o. as he bit you bloody?









I'm not sure that my kids have a deep understanding of WHY it's morally wrong to shop/cook/eat in a chronically wasteful manner. They probably also don't understand in the way an adult does why racism and sexism are morally wrong. _It doesn't mean the adults in the household aren't supposed to model and defend our central values_.

My kids have a snack basket. They snack out of the snack basket, which has fruit and granola bars. Saving the rest of the kid-friendly foods in my arsenal for mealtimes has hugely reduced the amount of waste/refusal we deal with at the table. Tiny portions also help. I have no taste for badgering anybody at my table to eat, but if I'm scraping huge amounts of food off the plates at the end of the meal, then somebody messed up, and perfectly good food that could have been tomorrow's lunch has been wasted, and that bothers me.


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Any instance of having a child eat something they don't want to at that time is, IMO, making food into a power struggle. Best case scenario, your child is compliant and does what you ask, else the whole thing just goes down hill.

At 2 can a child really understand that mom and dad spend money to buy food and because of that wasting it is not good for the whole family? It's a fairly complex idea, I don't expect a 2 year old to understand.

Finally there has been at least one poster who has said their child has to eat what was made _before_ they get anything else, even if it takes all day.

Well...maybe my 2 year old was just super advanced







. I think a child of any age can _start_ to learn about these issues. I don't expect them to GET it, but I expect them to get on board with it. Maybe they understand why later on. That's okay with me.

I really don't see it as any differently than recycling, or not stealing. They don't necessarily need to know why, but they need to know the rule, the why will either come into their consciousness later or they will revolt and become horrible people I don't want to know and can't respect. That's is entirely possible, but I am hoping for comprehension and compassion. Wish me luck!









I have to say, I don't see it as a power struggle either. I used to when I let it get to me, but now I just see it as, "this is the way of our home" We don't hit, we don't bite, we don't lie, we don't steal, we don't litter, we recycle, we don't eat industrially farmed animals, we don't waste food, we don't call names, we don't waste water or electricity... The two year old child will probably question any of that and want us to change the rules to meet their whims, but I _don't_. Like when my ds stole a pack of gum from the corner store at the age of 2.5 maybe closer to three? We went back and gave the gum back to the shop owner and talked about not stealing and why. Did he get it? Probably not, at least not until someone at pre-school stole his snack from his lunch box...he got it then, I think







. But he was able to connect our rules, and see the consistency in them. So it's not a power struggle for me any more. No more than it is a power struggle to "force" my kid to not pet his baby sister's head like a snare drum, or "force" him to tell the truth. It's just the way of OUR home. and I do get it that's that's not an important issue for ALL families, but it is to _me_. I can't unsee what I have seen, and I don't want to. I want my kids to grow up with that sort of empathy and conscientiousness built into them, and not be wasteful, making food out of boredom, and impulsively picking and chucking food away like it's for entertainment.

And yes, I don't refuse _meals_ (I admit my initial post came out really harsh, but I wasn't aware we talking about meals...I really just meant snacks), I just refuse other snacks. I have never really had a huge issue over this rule either. I have gotten a few protesting whines perhaps a few begging pleeeeeeeeeeeases, and then "le sigh







okay, I'll eat it!" and we all move on. So I fail to see the big struggle in it.

I know it is a leap to connect world hunger and other issues of social violence, but I have a hard time not bringing my work home with me, and I do think all these little things are part of a continuum with our values. It's part of who I am. How can I say to my children: " Mommy and daddy work towards helping people who are starving and poor and oppressed." in one breath and then turn around in the next and say "Not hungry for that? eh, just chuck it in the bin, no biggie. Plenty more where that came from." I just think that glaring hypocrisy will come to bite me in the ass one day.


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Smithie* 
My kids have a snack basket. They snack out of the snack basket, which has fruit and granola bars. Saving the rest of the kid-friendly foods in my arsenal for mealtimes has hugely reduced the amount of waste/refusal we deal with at the table. Tiny portions also help. I have no taste for badgering anybody at my table to eat, but if I'm scraping huge amounts of food off the plates at the end of the meal, then somebody messed up, and perfectly good food that could have been tomorrow's lunch has been wasted, and that bothers me.

I like this too, at five, Benjamin has pretty much graduated on to this (well it's a shelf) but sometimes he wants something not on the shelf and I am usually happy to oblige because I trust that he will eat it. (hence why he is allowed to get his own snacks himself, because he doesn't leave them half finished and then chuck them out -- anymore.







)


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
I am sure there are other ways to do it besides "If I make you will eat it at some point, either this snack, or the next one."

If you figure it out...can you let me know?


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

How about saying "Not hungry for that? Lets help mommy wrap it up and put it in the fridge so you can eat it later."

Left overs are not a mortal sin, nor is it a horrible thing to do to put something in the fridge. Who knows, when they ask for a PB&J sandwich tomorrow, they might be willing to eat the one that you saved from today. There is more then one way to avoid wasting food. I can tell you that even now I remind DD if she has something in the fridge from earlier, when she says she's hungry. Why? because it's a ready made snack right there. Yeah she's much older, but she has been taught the benifit of saving food that hasn't been eaten for another time when she wants that food. Without making it the only option at the next snack time.


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
How about saying "Not hungry for that? Lets help mommy wrap it up and put it in the fridge so you can eat it later."
.......Without making it the only option at the next snack time.

Leftovers aren't horrible, but who wants them, really, when you can have new and fresh? In my experience, if I offer a child, my husband, or myself something new, freshly made, or a leftover, ALL will choose the new food. And the leftovers will sit. And sit. And sit. And rot.

That's why you offer it, alone, at the next snack time. Because really, an "old" food item will never be chosen if there's a new and "better" option.

It's also why lots of families serve up yesterday's dinner leftovers for lunch today....without "okaying" it with the kids, because if you give them a choice, most of the time no one will want the old stuff.

ETA: And how far do you go with the "power struggle" issues over food? Let's say your dd wanted a peanut butter sandwich, and you offered her the 2-day old one in the fridge and she refused it, wanting a new one. Then what? Do you make the new one or only offer her the old one? What about if she's like my dd - who HATES yogurt - but occasionally asks for it, and I know from experience over the last three years that she WON'T eat it? I won't give it to her. No way, no how. Not gonna open a brand new container just to have her look at it and tell me yuck.

Sorry this is kind of a tangent, but I was just wondering - if you say you won't make food a power struggle, then what would you do in these instances? Just give in to every food whim? Or would you yourself set limits and restrictions?


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Of course there are going to be limits and restrictions. If you want something and it's in the fridge, ready made. You eat that. Left overs are a part of life in this house, no one complains about it, no one really cares about it. If anything, they are often chosen _over_ fresh made food just because they are easier to prepare.

DD is 11, she makes her own food, with the exception of dinner and after school snack. Her lunch today was left overs from last nights dinner because they were there, and they offered a filling snack.


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
How about saying "Not hungry for that? Lets help mommy wrap it up and put it in the fridge so you can eat it later."

That's exactly what we do. What did I say that made people here think that because I vent my inner frustration about the issue to adults on this page, I must be standing over my child threatening them to eat it or ELSE!
















...that's exactly what we do. We wrap it up, and when he is hungry again he finishes it. I don't even make a deal out of it. It's just the underlying rule.

Quote:

Left overs are not a mortal sin, nor is it a horrible thing to do to put something in the fridge. Who knows, when they ask for a PB&J sandwich tomorrow, they might be willing to eat the one that you saved from today.
really? Have you ever eaten a day old sandwich? Not many snack foods last more than a day. Bananas turn brown and slimy, apples get all brown and gooey, sandwiches get soggy, and before long NO one wants to eat it. C'mon, I have to be realistic! I won't make a kid eat something that has gone all horrible and gross.

Quote:

There is more then one way to avoid wasting food. I can tell you that even now I remind DD if she has something in the fridge from earlier, when she says she's hungry. Why? because it's a ready made snack right there. Yeah she's much older, but she has been taught the benifit of saving food that hasn't been eaten for another time when she wants that food. Without making it the only option at the next snack time.
Of course leftovers are not a mortal sin. And chucking the leftovers in the bin won't actually hurt anybody either, but likely neither will eating an hours old leftover snack before you get yourself a fresh one, especially something like a sandwich or half eaten fruit that goes off in less than a day. Finish the half eaten apple that you started that now no one else wants because you ate all the skin off rendering the apple brown and slimy, and _then_ you can have a _second_ apple







(this was the most common one for us...I don't want THAT apple anymore, I want a FRESH apple...I don't want THAT sandwich anymore, I want a NEW sandwich. I tasted the yogurt with the lion picture on it...now I want to try the one with the giraffe on it.







) or wait until dinner. We eat meals every five hours or so. Nobody has ever suffered from hunger pains in a five hour window between meals, ya know?


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
*Of course there are going to be limits and restrictions.* _If you want something and it's in the fridge, ready made. You eat that._ Left overs are a part of life in this house, no one complains about it, no one really cares about it. If anything, they are often chosen _over_ fresh made food just because they are easier to prepare.

DD is 11, she makes her own food, with the exception of dinner and after school snack. Her lunch today was left overs from last nights dinner because they were there, and they offered a filling snack.

Ahhh, see! We're not so different. Leftovers are the only reason we have a fridge it seems...Left overs and cool liquids.


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## new2this (Feb 11, 2010)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
How about saying "Not hungry for that? Lets help mommy wrap it up and put it in the fridge so you can eat it later."

Left overs are not a mortal sin, nor is it a horrible thing to do to put something in the fridge. Who knows, when they ask for a PB&J sandwich tomorrow, they might be willing to eat the one that you saved from today. There is more then one way to avoid wasting food. I can tell you that even now I remind DD if she has something in the fridge from earlier, when she says she's hungry. Why? because it's a ready made snack right there. Yeah she's much older, but she has been taught the benifit of saving food that hasn't been eaten for another time when she wants that food. Without making it the only option at the next snack time.

May not be a mortal sin, however I am sure there are tons of families out there that really do live on a strict budget. We have a budget and I give myself room to wiggle but its not much. But in this house more so with meals. I will not make a new meal till all the leftovers are gone or by 2 days as leftovers then I either freeze it if possible or gets made into something else. Thats just the way it is.

I wouldn't expect a 2 yr old to fully grasp it however the way I see it is, I am the parent so yeah in this instance what I say goes. Because the need is hunger for a snack. When offered the choice of this or this. Or they are specific in what they want and yet refuse then that need really is no longer a true need. So yeah when they are hungry for a snack again it will be waiting.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hakeber* 








...that's exactly what we do. We wrap it up, and when he is hungry again he finishes it. I don't even make a deal out of it. It's just the underlying rule.

Which doesn't make sense to me. Just because I wanted a PB&J an hour ago, doesn't mean the next time I'm hungry I want a PB&J. One of our jobs as parents is to teach our children to listen to their bodies. Well the human body is a pretty incredible thing, when you know how to listen to it properly it tells you what you need to eat in order to get what it is your missing. How is making what they didn't finished, required for the next snack teaching them to listen to their body?

For the record, I wouldn't eat a PB&J period. Peanut butter is really icky!


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Which doesn't make sense to me. Just because I wanted a PB&J an hour ago, doesn't mean the next time I'm hungry I want a PB&J. One of our jobs as parents is to teach our children to listen to their bodies. Well the human body is a pretty incredible thing, when you know how to listen to it properly it tells you what you need to eat in order to get what it is your missing. How is making what they didn't finished, required for the next snack teaching them to listen to their body?

Honestly, I for one think that's a strange way of looking at it.

How many parents do you know who ask each and every one of their kids before mealtime what they want? Parents just prepare a dinner, and that's that. There is no individual platter served up for each person, based on what their bodies are telling them.

And what do you do when the foods they crave just aren't in the house? Yesterday my kids wanted a banana for a snack. Sorry - we're out! Peanut butter sandwiches? No bread. Cheese? Gone. Apples? Daddy took the last one. (Obviously, we had some grocery shopping to do!)

A normal, healthy child won't be suffering physically if he's made to eat his earlier-refused peanut butter sandwich instead of the banana he'd rather have. And like a pp said, if he's that picky, then he's not that hungry.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

How many parents ask their child what they want to eat when their child asks for a snack? My guess is most of them. Very few parents would just make something for a snack without input from the child in question.

And if he's that picky, he could have other issues at hand. For instance, a friend of mine with sensory issues _is_ that picky. A peanut butter sandwich may have been something she wanted and could handle earlier, but the textures and tastes she can handle change over the course of the day.


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
How many parents ask their child what they want to eat when their child asks for a snack? My guess is most of them. Very few parents would just make something for a snack without input from the child in question.

I sometimes offer two options. They can choose from those. Most of the time, though, I _do_ tell them what the snack is.

But that's not the point - the point is you said we have to respect what children's bodies are telling them, but MOST people don't ask their children what their bodies are telling them to make for breakfast, lunch, dinner. They just eat what is served. So if it's respecting a child to give them what their bodies crave, then you have to say we should also be respecting them enough to give them what they crave at mealtime, too.

Quote:

And if he's that picky, he could have other issues at hand. For instance, a friend of mine with sensory issues _is_ that picky. A peanut butter sandwich may have been something she wanted and could handle earlier, but the textures and tastes she can handle change over the course of the day.
If a parent truly had a child like this, then yes, this would be taken into consideration. But this is not the norm, and still, it doesn't justify waste, and if she did want and could handle the peanut butter earlier, why didn't she eat it then?

Again, it all goes back NOT to dictating what and when and how a child shall eat, but helping them learn to THINK about what they want to eat rather than just rattling off something. The goal then is not to force a child to eat, but to help a child think and decide.


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Which doesn't make sense to me. Just because I wanted a PB&J an hour ago, doesn't mean the next time I'm hungry I want a PB&J. One of our jobs as parents is to teach our children to listen to their bodies. Well the human body is a pretty incredible thing, when you know how to listen to it properly it tells you what you need to eat in order to get what it is your missing. How is making what they didn't finished, required for the next snack teaching them to listen to their body?

For the record, I wouldn't eat a PB&J period. Peanut butter is really icky!

I guess you're right.







Maybe it just teaches them not to be so flighty and flakey about food. Maybe it just teaches them not to ask for more than they really want in the first place. I totally get that body cues are important, and something to teach my kid about...I just think a perfectly *EQUAL* thing, if not even more important in my book, that I wanted to teach my kid (and as far as I can see I _have_) is to ALSO be considerate of the fact that in our family _we just simply don't snack a bit on this and a bit on that and then leave the *dregs* of it on the shelf of the fridge until it is too gross to be eaten anymore._ It's wasteful, and morally wrong. We think about our food and make careful choices to start with, we finish what we start and we don't waste food. Which means we take the time to learn from our mistakes how much food to take in the first place. Sometimes that means eating a grody sandwich from earlier in the day rather than the luxury of a fresh one. I also believe that by giving ourselves these boundaries, we teach ourselves to really think carefully about it FIRST. We listen to our bodies BEFORE we make the snack, or if we can't, we don't get to have the luxury of extra snacks.

I don't really think catering to the whims of one's body TRUMPS the moral values of my family. I don't. I don't believe that anyone NEEDS an apple before dinner but absolutely _can't_ first try to finish a half of banana they didn't finish earlier first and THEN see if they still need that apple, or for that matter the APPPLE THEY HAVE SITTING IN THE FRIDGE FROM EARLIER!!!

I mean seriously...am I supposed to let my kid have a new apple when there is a half an apple they left from earlier that day sitting in the fridge? You must be joking! I'm just not even going to pretend that I would consider that reasonable.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

You can teach them to not just rattle something off without saying "this is what you're eating."

I just don't understand that mind set. I don't understand it with snack, I don't understand it with meals either. Everyone here is involved in meal planning. I don't just decide what everyone is going to eat, I get input from everyone in the house. Even DS, who usually just says "food".

It's not about wasting food, if it was then "this is what you are eating" wouldn't be the only option.


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
How many parents ask their child what they want to eat when their child asks for a snack? My guess is most of them. Very few parents would just make something for a snack without input from the child in question.

But that's the point. I mean if you let a kid pick a new snack every time (and if ds didn't finish the first he's probably asking for a second or third snack before dinner), because he doesn't want that anymore, when does it get eaten? The answer, ime (and we had a lot of experience on the matter) is _never._ Not later, not tomorrow, not ever. It goes in the bin.

The point is if that snack is THE snack until its gone, it quickly becomes very clear that they shouldn't ask for snacks they aren't sure they want more than one bite of...and imho, they actually listen even _better_ to their body cues...but that's one kid...we'll see what happens with #2.

And please don't bring sensory issues into it...We're talking about the average kid here, not special circumstances. Be fair and assume we're not talking about special cases.


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
You can teach them to not just rattle something off without saying "this is what you're eating."

See, that's what I did. I taught them to not just rattle things off and to really KNOW what they want by setting those guidelines. FWIW, my kids don't waste their snacks anymore. It was a 3-4 day learning experience, esp for the 2 year old. He found out very quickly that his wasted snack became his next snack, and now the need to say "this is what you're eating" is no longer there. In other words, it's not an ongoing battle. I taught. He learned. Matter closed.

Quote:

Everyone here is involved in meal planning.
Not here. If I involved everyone we'd have four different menus and then at least three unhappy, mopey kids who didn't get their way. I make what I make. Lunch, not so much all the time, but definitely for dinner.

Quote:

It's not about wasting food, if it was then "this is what you are eating" wouldn't be the only option.
"This is what you're eating" is merely one teaching tool to get them to no longer waste food.


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
You can teach them to not just rattle something off without saying "this is what you're eating (because you chose it!)."

parenthesis mine.









Please, share your wisdom...believe me I would love to know a gentler way! It's not like we didn't try everything we could think of before this got rotated in.

This is what we do...criticize, and then comes the constructive part...how did you do it? Share.









I agree meal planning is a group activity. I let ds plan meals as much as his dad and I. That's why at five I expect him to eat what HE takes, or not take it. What do you do?


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Anastasiya* 
See, that's what I did. I taught them to not just rattle things off and to really KNOW what they want by setting those guidelines. FWIW, my kids don't waste their snacks anymore. It was a 3-4 day learning experience, esp for the 2 year old. He found out very quickly that his wasted snack became his next snack, and now the need to say "this is what you're eating" is no longer there. In other words, it's not an ongoing battle. I taught. He learned. Matter closed.

that's pretty much how it went here, too. eta: but I have a new one now, so I am totally open to new ideas!


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

We do pretty much what many people in this thread have said. Help in the planning and preparation, smaller serving sizes, snack plates that can sit out so DS has easy access to food himself instead of needing DH, DD or I to give it to him.

We wrap things up and put them in the fridge for later, the left overs are always the first thing offered, but we don't require they eat that before anything else. Most importantly, we don't make it an "I'm the parent" power struggle. And soon enough, DS is going to learn how to make somethings for himself if he doesn't want anything that is on the snack plate, just like DD did. So basically we have given them control over their own food.


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
We do pretty much what many people in this thread have said. Help in the planning and preparation, smaller serving sizes, snack plates that can sit out so DS has easy access to food himself instead of needing DH, DD or I to give it to him.

My DH and I call our second son "The Intactivist". He is very, very picky - obsessively so - about everything being whole and perfect. I could never serve him 1/4 or 1/2 a sandwich because he would be consumed in tears. He wants the WHOLE sandwich. Cut a banana in half? Oh, that devastates him like nothing else. He becomes a bundle of inconsolability. Give him 1/2 box of raisins rather than a whole box - even worse. A small bowl of cereal? Not going to happen.

So, for him anyway, smaller portions just never worked. Wow. Kids are SO different from one another.

And leaving a snack tray out doesn't work either. The older kids start to pick at his once theirs are gone, and he flips out. Either that or the baby somehow manages to get ahold of it.


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

no, musician dad, I mean specifically about the wrapped up food that isn't wanted. It can just get chucked for you, can't it? Cause as you can see I do/did _all_ those other things, too.

But that last one didn't work for us, not _ever._ And I just can't blow off that sort of waste. I don't think you get the shere volume of snacks half eaten and eventually trashed that did and could have continued to accumlate, molding and soggy in the fridge, never to be eaten, if my two year old child had been allowed to just _start_ as many new snacks as "his body told him to". You must have naturally just more conscientious kids than mine was, because mine would likely have happily gone on like that till every last item in our month's grocery list was half eaten inside of a couple days.

C'mon, tell me what I'm missing?

The truth is I don't know if I feel all that badly if _now and then_ I pull the parent card. I am the parent. I do pay the bills. I do make the rules. I do set the moral codes. _That's my job._ I don't always feel the need, but sometimes I really do. Issues of waste have me flashing my sherrif's star faster than you can whistle dixie. I give everyone a fair trial, a chance to plead their case, but it is my town, and some rules are non-negotiable...we don't waste food. Since he had PROVEN himself untrustworthy of finishing a snack later, he was not going to get a new snack now...I mean that was after MONTHS of food wasting. MONTHS of just watching food get thrown away! I can't condone that without hating myself.


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Anastasiya* 
My DH and I call our second son "The Intactivist". He is very, very picky - obsessively so - about everything being whole and perfect. I could never serve him 1/4 or 1/2 a sandwich because he would be consumed in tears. He wants the WHOLE sandwich. Cut a banana in half? Oh, that devastates him like nothing else. He becomes a bundle of inconsolability. Give him 1/2 box of raisins rather than a whole box - even worse. A small bowl of cereal? Not going to happen.

So, for him anyway, smaller portions just never worked. Wow. Kids are SO different from one another.

And leaving a snack tray out doesn't work either. The older kids start to pick at his once theirs are gone, and he flips out. Either that or the baby somehow manages to get ahold of it.

I so can't imagine doing that with four kids...or more









Kudos to you.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I don't have a lot of problems with food being wasted, and I've never forced any issues with food. I change my own behavior. For instance, half an apple is a serving of fruit, and is how much a child is usually hungry for. I cut the apple in half when I give it to her, and I have a squirt bottle of concentraed lemon juice in the fridge specifically to put a bit on the other half of the apple before I put it in the fridge. It does't get icky, and my dd just helps herself to the other half. If my dd wants PB sandwich, she won't eat much, so I cut a piece of bread in half and make just that much pb sandwich. I've never told her she has to finish anything before going on to something else, and people seem to naturally look at leftovers when they are hungry for snacks. If I put something in the fridge, 95% of the time it'd disappared within 24 hours. Maybe the difference is that I'm fine with throwing out what few leftovers dont' get eaten? It ends up being very little and I really don't think that small amount of food is worth fights.

We care about hunger and keep a coffee can on the table that we put money into at every meal, and when it gets heavy we give the money to either a local food pantry or to an organization for world hunger. It isn't like we don't teach that lesson.


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
I don't have a lot of problems with food being wasted, and I've never forced any issues with food. I change my own behavior. For instance, half an apple is a serving of fruit, and is how much a child is usually hungry for. I cut the apple in half when I give it to her, and I have a squirt bottle of concentraed lemon juice in the fridge specifically to put a bit on the other half of the apple before I put it in the fridge. It does't get icky, and my dd just helps herself to the other half. If my dd wants PB sandwich, she won't eat much, so I cut a piece of bread in half and make just that much pb sandwich. I've never told her she has to finish anything before going on to something else, and people seem to naturally look at leftovers when they are hungry for snacks. If I put something in the fridge, 95% of the time it'd disappared within 24 hours. Maybe the difference is that I'm fine with throwing out what few leftovers dont' get eaten? It ends up being very little and I really don't think that small amount of food is worth fights.

We care about hunger and keep a coffee can on the table that we put money into at every meal, and when it gets heavy we give the money to either a local food pantry or to an organization for world hunger. It isn't like we don't teach that lesson.

I think that's totally reasonable, especially when you have a lot of kids in the house. I just saw WAY too many nibbled on gummed over and discarded items being left in the fridge for far too long and ds doesn't have a host of scavengers co-habitating with him like I did growing up. He really grew to take food _totally for granted_ like he was entitled to a fridge buffet all day, leaving everything mauled and unappetizing for anyone else including himself. But as I said upthread, I would totally be fine with him having a new snack if he could find someone else to finish the one he started. I just found _myself_ feeling forced to finish a million things I didn't want, need or _ask_ for, or throw out heaps of food, enough to feed another child. At some point I felt the wastfulness was getting truly obscene, and when you spend two days a week working with kids who take not even the roof over their heads for granted and you spend seven days a week educating educating youn adults from developing nations around the world to fight oppression like that, it was really hard for me to sleep at night being complicit in that sort of waste.

Yes, I am a bleeding heart, and I am taking my kids for the ride. Maybe they'll both wind up like Alex from Family Ties instead.

I like the idea of lemon juice for the apples...though you wanna see the hissy fit thrown when I tried cutting an apple in half or in slices for ds back then. You'd think I was cutting off his fingers! I avoided that meltdown (we found it far far worse than insisting he finish that same apple later on in the day) and just bought _much_ smaller apples/bananas/mangoes etc.(yes, my ds eats mangos like an apple...skin and all -- he's such a little weirdo







) It's a good idea for child #2.

BTW, I don't mean to imply that others _here_ don't care about issues of starvation and poverty, and I deeply apologize if that's how it came out. There are _lots_ of ways to build awareness. This (living here, volunteering, teaching, working with families in distress) is just how _we_ do it, and we find a real need for consistency in that way of life. Allowing a family member to start but not finish _everything_ on his snack shelf (which were in small portions to begin with) then never want to touch them again, or to make special requests and not eat more than a bite, was not consistent with our values or our work. We had to make a change.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hakeber* 
no, musician dad, I mean specifically about the wrapped up food that isn't wanted. It can just get chucked for you, can't it? Cause as you can see I do/did _all_ those other things, too.

But that last one didn't work for us, not _ever._ And I just can't blow off that sort of waste. I don't think you get the shere volume of snacks half eaten and eventually trashed that did and could have continued to accumlate, molding and soggy in the fridge, never to be eaten, if my two year old child had been allowed to just _start_ as many new snacks as "his body told him to". You must have naturally just more conscientious kids than mine was, because mine would likely have happily gone on like that till every last item in our month's grocery list was half eaten inside of a couple days.

C'mon, tell me what I'm missing?

The truth is I don't know if I feel all that badly if _now and then_ I pull the parent card. I am the parent. I do pay the bills. I do make the rules. I do set the moral codes. _That's my job._ I don't always feel the need, but sometimes I really do. Issues of waste have me flashing my sherrif's star faster than you can whistle dixie. I give everyone a fair trial, a chance to plead their case, but it is my town, and some rules are non-negotiable...we don't waste food. Since he had PROVEN himself untrustworthy of finishing a snack later, he was not going to get a new snack now...I mean that was after MONTHS of food wasting. MONTHS of just watching food get thrown away! I can't condone that without hating myself.

I guess what you're missing is that we have never had something that needed chucking unless it was from a dinner that was just too big for the family. Even then, we try to use/eat as much of it as possible. And like mamazee's house, about 95% of what goes in the fridge eventually gets eaten.


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## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

We've always let our DD, age 4, completely self regulate and she 's been getting a lot of her own snacks since around 2. We don't seem to have had the waste issues some other posters seem to have had. DD often gets out a container of beans, a box of triscuts or a handful of grapes or berries and then just puts back any she doesn't want. Banana or browned apple pieces just go into oatmeal or muffins the next morning. Sandwiches and toast do seem to be the things that most often don't get finished, but they aren't requested often. Like musician dad's family we like leftovers and even snack on them. Also I think food issues and possible later obesity are more important that an occasional thrown away bit of food. Most of our waste comes from things like the last corn bread muffin got moldy or I should have frozen the last of the gumbo.


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## KBinSATX (Jan 17, 2006)

I think really the key to not going crazy is simply offering small portions. Folding a piece of bread over and making a sandwich out of just one slice rather than a whole sandwich, offering things in small portions, etc.

I am almost 40 now and I still remember my mom talking about me having to eat things because in other parts of the world people were starving. As a child I couldn't make the connection there. It didn't mean anything to me. If she wanted to mail my snack to the starving I would have much preferred that over gagging on it myself.

I also agree about the obesity issue. Both my husband and I were trained to clean our plates and not waste anything. He's been struggling with obesity all his life and has just been diagnosed with diabetes. I don't want that for my kids. I'd much rather they leave something on their plate and still be able to listen to their bodies.


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## coffeegirl (Jan 1, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hakeber* 
I guess you're right.







Maybe it just teaches them not to be so flighty and flakey about food. Maybe it just teaches them not to ask for more than they really want in the first place. I totally get that body cues are important, and something to teach my kid about...I just think a perfectly *EQUAL* thing, if not even more important in my book, that I wanted to teach my kid (and as far as I can see I _have_) is to ALSO be considerate of the fact that in our family _we just simply don't snack a bit on this and a bit on that and then leave the *dregs* of it on the shelf of the fridge until it is too gross to be eaten anymore._ It's wasteful, and morally wrong. We think about our food and make careful choices to start with, we finish what we start and we don't waste food. Which means we take the time to learn from our mistakes how much food to take in the first place. Sometimes that means eating a grody sandwich from earlier in the day rather than the luxury of a fresh one. I also believe that by giving ourselves these boundaries, we teach ourselves to really think carefully about it FIRST. We listen to our bodies BEFORE we make the snack, or if we can't, we don't get to have the luxury of extra snacks.

I don't really think catering to the whims of one's body TRUMPS the moral values of my family. I don't. I don't believe that anyone NEEDS an apple before dinner but absolutely _can't_ first try to finish a half of banana they didn't finish earlier first and THEN see if they still need that apple, or for that matter the APPPLE THEY HAVE SITTING IN THE FRIDGE FROM EARLIER!!!

I mean seriously...am I supposed to let my kid have a new apple when there is a half an apple they left from earlier that day sitting in the fridge? You must be joking! I'm just not even going to pretend that I would consider that reasonable.

I agree with this 100%. I don't want to raise my girl to be finicky about food, and I know that one way to do this (I know from experience, mind you) is to offer kids endless choices on food all the time. Everyone has individual tastes, everyone has something they dislike or really like, etc. But a lot of these preferences are trained into kids at an early age and can be avoided, IMO.

I wouldn't force a child to eat anything they hated. I'm talking about preferences that aren't strong...where the child could go either way on the PB&J for instance, but when given other options, will go for the other options or just answer no to the "do you want the PB&J?" question because they're at the age where they like to answer no to things and be a contrarian. lol

We're just going to try to be reasonable, and not waste food, and teach the little one that we don't waste food.









eta: Also totally agree with the previous poster who mentioned smaller portions of snacks being key.


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