# How to stop DS from watching TV??!!



## freestyler (Jan 28, 2005)

My kids have swim team at an athletic facility where there are TVs in the locker rooms. We are an avidly anti-TV family. Switching to another swim team is not an option at this time, either. Well, when we get to the facility, two of my kids start practice right away, but DS's practice starts an hour later. I always tell DS, Please meet me on the pool deck with your suit on, and we can play some pool games and swim together until your practice time.

DS disappears into the locker room and STAYS THERE, watching TV for the whole hour until his practice. I sometimes yell into the locker room for him to please come out, but this has no effect. Either he doesn't come out at all, or he comes out and goes right back in when my back is turned. I am adamantly opposed to his having an hour of screen time every day---or even ANY screen time.

For those of you wishing to debate the merits of screen time, by the way, please do not bother. I am not interested in debating this or defending my position about being anti-TV. Please respect my view on this as you would accept another parent's view on something they considered unhealthy.

How can I get DS to break his screen addiction, which is what it is at this point? We have to be there for swim team, and I need to remain on site while my younger kids swim. How can I have any control over DS and his going into the locker room, when it is the men's locker room besides? But also, I do not feel I should have to "control" him! He is nearly 8 and big enough to follow simple directions ("No TV please!). What are appropriate consequences for his continued non-compliance on this issue? How do you get him to break his addiction and follow directions? What should happen to him if he continues to disobey? This has been going on for more than a year and I am at the end of my rope.

For this week, I am not letting him practice, even though I am well aware he needs the exercise. I am just sick of getting to the pool deck and NO DS! He is watching the bloody idiot box again! I also feel that the screen time very badly affects his behavior. Days when he is not exposed to TV, he is calmer at night and more settled, kinder, not on edge. He acts like himself.

Advice, please!! I'm at the end of my rope with this TV issue.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Can he just go dressed for swim under his clothes? Maybe he just shouldn't go in there at all. There's almost always a separate set of bathrooms near the lobby that he can use if he needs to "go".

Other than dropping swim team, this is a tough one to handle.


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## freestyler (Jan 28, 2005)

But how do I keep him from going into the locker rooms? There is a separate bathroom, but how do I keep him out of the locker room? I'm with my two little ones---I cannot have eyes in the back of my head, KWIM? He simply is NOT listening or caring what Mom and Dad say about the whole thing, and he is just flagrantly disobeying.


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## HollyBearsMom (May 13, 2002)

I am curious-how old is your son? Oops just caught that he is 8. At 8 I would be letting my son make his own descions (sp?) but that's me.

Also- Do they have a family locker room? My YMCA has 5 so we avoid the public locker rooms all together...


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *philomom* 
Can he just go dressed for swim under his clothes? Maybe he just shouldn't go in there at all. There's almost always a separate set of bathrooms near the lobby that he can use if he needs to "go".

Other than dropping swim team, this is a tough one to handle.

I am not anti-tv and this would bother me for the simple reason that I would have no idea what he was watching in there.

I like the idea above. He wears his swim suit under his clothes and undresses in a bathroom keeping him out of the locker room.

Or maybe there is somewhere else he can undress.

This is a tough one. Can you sit down with him and discuss this further and see if you can come up with a solution together. Sometimes you can get them to cooperate if you get them in on the solution with you.

good luck

Heck..I didn't know it was you


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

I know..ask the Y to put on something really boring like the presidential nominations etc. and he'll get so bored he'll never go back there again.









I don't think it's addiction at this point. I think it's just a really strong urge for the forbidden which happens to be something he enjoys. So don't worry about that.

I agree, I don't think you should have to "control" him. I'm kind of stumped on this one. Trying to think of something similar I had problems with but can't.

I didn't have any boys...can you get a male worker to go in and get him for you. I would imagine that might get him moving if someone of some authority tells him his mom wants him outside.

sorry I can't be of more help.


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## _betsy_ (Jun 29, 2004)

Ask the facility to turn it off?

Embarass the heck out of by going in the men's room after him?

Embarass the heck out of by making him use the women's locker room?

Going dressed and ready for swim practice seems the best way to go, i think.


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## smeisnotapirate (Aug 24, 2007)

If possible, I'd take him in the women's locker room with you. This seems to be an issue of trust. He's betraying your trust to be in the locker room and act responsibly, so he gets to come with you and the little kids into the women's locker room where you can supervise him. Do this for a couple weeks, then ask if he's ready for the responsibility back.

It sucks that there's even a TV in the locker room, though. Don't people have better things to do than sit in a damp locker room and watch the boob tube?


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *smeisnotapirate* 
If possible, I'd take him in the women's locker room with you. This seems to be an issue of trust. He's betraying your trust to be in the locker room and act responsibly, so he gets to come with you and the little kids into the women's locker room where you can supervise him. Do this for a couple weeks, then ask if he's ready for the responsibility back.

It sucks that there's even a TV in the locker room, though. Don't people have better things to do than sit in a damp locker room and watch the boob tube?

I wonder if his age prohibits this..it's 5 at our local Y and then they have to go into the gender appropriate room.

eta...I agree..why would there even be a tv in there









Is there one in the women's locker room?


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## smeisnotapirate (Aug 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls* 
I wonder if his age prohibits this..it's 5 at our local Y and then they have to go into the gender appropriate room.

eta...I agree..why would there even be a tv in there









Is there one in the women's locker room?

I'm pretty sure that if mom asked the gym manager to allow her to keep her 8yo with her because there's no male adult to supervise him, they'd be ok with it. It's one thing if daddy's there, but a totally different one to expect a kid to be in a locker room alone with strangers, IMO.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *smeisnotapirate* 
I'm pretty sure that if mom asked the gym manager to allow her to keep her 8yo with her because there's no male adult to supervise him, they'd be ok with it. It's one thing if daddy's there, but a totally different one to expect a kid to be in a locker room alone with strangers, IMO.

yeah..I agree...wow...it's so complicated. I never thought of all of that not having had boys.


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## laoxinat (Sep 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *freestyler* 
We are an avidly anti-TV family.

First, a big








It seems it would be more accurate to say you are an anti-TV parent







. DS is clearly not anti TV. No-TV is your value and DS does not share this value. Now, that doesn't mean he will never share this value. My DS was a TV _junkie_ (at other people's homes) at that age and today, at 20, he rarely if ever watches TV. There's hope









Quote:


Originally Posted by *freestyler* 
I am adamantly opposed to his having an hour of screen time every day---or even ANY screen time.

I'd say this pretty much explains his obsession







Kids naturally want the things that are forbidden; sugar, video games, you name it. It's their nature.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *freestyler* 
How can I get DS to break his screen addiction,









unfortunately, you can't. It's an inside job, as they say in AA. Only he can decide. This does NOT mean you should not share your concerns in a non-judgmental way. But the merest implication that his character is in question because he wants to watch will very likely alienate him from you, and then you have much less influence. If he knows about the insidious nature of adverts, bias, etc, he will hopefully make better, more informed choices.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *freestyler* 
But also, I do not feel I should have to "control" him! He is nearly 8 and big enough to follow simple directions ("No TV please!).

While I share your desire for kids not to wach TV (gah....I don't even have one) I have to say, I am willing to bet he _feels_ controlled around this issue, which is probably why, when he _can_ control the situation (going into a locker room you can't enter and watching TV) he does.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *freestyler* 
What are appropriate consequences for his continued non-compliance on this issue? How do you get him to break his addiction and follow directions? What should happen to him if he continues to disobey? This has been going on for more than a year and I am at the end of my rope.

Ah yes, the power struggle. And DS won. Not winning. He won. He watched TV. For a year. It really sounds to me like you need to rethink this one. It may well be that he is so focused on TV because he knows it bugs you so much. And well, cuz TV is gaaaaah









Quote:


Originally Posted by *freestyler* 
For this week, I am not letting him practice, even though I am well aware he needs the exercise. I am just sick of getting to the pool deck and NO DS! He is watching the bloody idiot box again! I also feel that the screen time very badly affects his behavior. Days when he is not exposed to TV, he is calmer at night and more settled, kinder, not on edge. He acts like himself.
















I know. It sucks. They can go from so sweet and nice to uggghhhh. Also, I am not at all sure not being allowed to go to practice is punishment to him. If he doesn't particualrly like swimming, it may even feel like a reward, KWIM? Or at least 'good' in his mind.

Here's the thing- you can't MAKE him not _want_ to watch TV. If that were possible, of course you would have done (_I_ would














because you LOVE your son and want what is best for him. The only way to stop him watching TV, short of him completely losing interest, (and, like that's happening soon







...) is not to allow him to go anywhere where there are TVs. Does he go to friends' houses? I am relatively sure you don't go with him and make sure he's not watching, right? But realistically, how else would you accomplish this goal? I am not saying let him watch TV, necessarily. Could you allow videos or movies? Maybe loosen up on them a little? I think there is danger in this situation of sending the behavior underground or sideways, into a different, more dangerous addiction.
Do you have a way of knowing what the health club plays on the locker TV? Maybe it's just sports? Just thinking out loud.
This is definitely a tough one. It sounds like you are feeling like he is being inflexible. Can you turn that around? Can you see that he might be feeling you are being inflexible? Usually the thing that is driving us nuts is because the other person is, in some way, being a mirror. I used to call DS my little Zen master








I wish I had a magic wand for ya.


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## freestyler (Jan 28, 2005)

Ummm, all the above....good thoughts. And yes, I do NOT know what he is watching, and there is no filter on the TV, and I know from the women's locker room that just channel surfing can get you some VERY objectionable material.







:And as to why there is a TV, lord knows. But it is Orange County, and there are TVs EVERYWHERE here, it is scary. People are totally disconnected and totally mainstream, and in this athletic facility there are TVs literally everywhere they can be put. Big screen TVs in the exercise/weight/treadmill room, AND individual screens with headphones on the equipment besides. Huge TV in the snack bar. TVs and computers in the teen lounge. TV at the security desk. TV/movie screen in the hall on the way in. TV that is used as THE babysitter in the babysitting room. (I have used the babysitting about 5 or 6 times, and each time I had to ask that the TV be shut off. They did turn it off, but looked very offended that I would ask such a thing, like I was asking them to unplug and do extra work.) And there are more TVs besides. Believe me, if there were another good place to swim right now, we'd be there immediately.

And it's like this all over Orange County. There are TVs in all the childcare rooms at church, TVs in all the classrooms in public schools and many private, TVs at the gas stations, TVs in every room in everyone's house, TVs in every medical waiting room and hospital, TVs in the grocery stores.....ypu get the idea. It is awful. There are three things I would eliminate from the world: war, genital mutilation or any hurting of children, and TV. Think what a better, safer, more beautiful world it would be.

More suggestions, anyone?


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## laoxinat (Sep 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *freestyler* 
There are three things I would eliminate from the world: war, genital mutilation or any hurting of children, and TV. Think what a better, safer, more beautiful world it would be.

Amen to that, mama...


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *freestyler* 
And it's like this all over Orange County. There are TVs in all the childcare rooms at church, TVs in all the classrooms in public schools and many private, TVs at the gas stations, TVs in every room in everyone's house, TVs in every medical waiting room and hospital, TVs in the grocery stores.....ypu get the idea. It is awful.









wow! gas stations? grocery stores? child care rooms?

I would ask the front desk to turn it off. BUT I'd would say it's because you don't want him watching TV. It's because you don't want him in the locker room unsupervised because you don't know who else is in there for the hour that he's staying in there. (Honestly, that would worry me more than him watching TV.) If they balk, I'd lightly drop the words 'abuse' and 'liability'.


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## rzberrymom (Feb 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laoxinat* 
I'd say this pretty much explains his obsession







Kids naturally want the things that are forbidden; sugar, video games, you name it. It's their nature.

You know, I see this thrown around a lot, but is there really any proof of this? Eliminate TV from the home completely, develop new hobbies as a family, talk about why the family is TV-free and this obsession will wane. Check out the tv-free tribe--there are loads of stories about this phenomenon.

To scare the OP into believing that her values have created this situation is irresponsible, IMHO.


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *_betsy_* 
Ask the facility to turn it off?

BIG







:

If you ask around to other mothers I bet you can get many to back you up on it too. I'm not totally anti-TV, but would not be at all ok with DS watching god-only-knows-what, completely unsupervised, in a place and time set aside for exercise.


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## prettymom (Feb 23, 2007)

I think an interesting part of this conversation is why he is watching the TV. I would submit that perhaps he is being overpowered by the TV. Yes, of course he has the power to obey and walk away, but I think it is important to recognize how hypnotic and mesmerizing TV can be with it's bright flashing lights, especially for someone who sees so little of it. Does he realize he is in there for an hour? I don't really have a solution, I just wanted to add this to the list of possible reasons WHY he watches it for you to address with him (the other ones seeming to be as a form of control, defiance, because it is forbidden).


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## snoopy5386 (May 6, 2005)

If he goes in to watch even though he doesn't need to get changed/use the locker room then he is being disrespectful to you. Have you tried giving him consequences for this? Such as he has to stay home from swimming or loses a privelege at home? Not very GD, but he is 8 and should know to listen to you by now.


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## abi&ben'smom (Oct 28, 2007)

I'll have to agree with giving him consequences. He is definately old enough to listen to you. Or you can avoid the whole thing by having his swim suit on already. Our kids have swim classes tonight right after school, so to save time, I have the suits ready to put on right when they get home. Even though my dd has to wait 45 minutes before her class starts. Also, it would freak me out to have my kids in a locker room without a parent for an hour! If my son is taking too long in a public bathroom/locker room, I shout in there to ask if he is ok (if he has to poop, he can be in there for 20 minutes). Would you let him stay in that long if the classes were done, and all of you were waiting for him? (By the way, I am a tv addict and I let my kids watch tv. But that would make me really mad. I think it has more to do with him not listening to you for such a long period to time, than the tv. Wouldn't you still be mad if he was in there for an hour with maybe another swim class kids just horsing around/chasing each other/etc? I think you should focus on the 'not supervised for an hour' thing as opposed to the 'you can't watch tv' thing with him.)


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## smeisnotapirate (Aug 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *abi&ben'smom* 
I think you should focus on the 'not supervised for an hour' thing as opposed to the 'you can't watch tv' thing with him.)









:

This kind of thing can lead to a whole bunch of other issues. Who knows what kind of people go in and out of a Y locker room. I'm not willing to trust them, even if I trust my kid that he's just in there watching TV.


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## twilight girl (Mar 7, 2002)

Loaxinat give a very thoughtful, excellent response.

To that I would add a couple more thoughts:

Don't send him in to change until it is time for _his_ lesson. He goes directly in to the pool with you to watch the other kids' lesson, and 5 minutes before his lesson you send him in to change. When the other kids go in to change into dry clothes they can make sure to shoo him out in time for his own lesson. There the consequence of lingering to watch TV would be clear, he would miss his lesson. Right now, you arrive and send him directly in to the TV area and expect him to express a certain self control that might be beyond his abilities right now. If you bypass the TV area on arrival, it's not right in his face, and he doesn't even see it until just before his class when it's time for him to change.

You can explain this to your son by telling him that it is against the rules of the place for children to "hang out" unsupervised in the locker room. So, he is only allowed (by the place) to go in and change and come back out immediately. For whatever reason, sometimes rules of the school or the place seem more authoritative to kids.

Also, while asking the establishment to turn off the TV might be the ideal solution in your mind, it's really ends up being forcing your parenting choices on everyone else. So, while I agree that I'd just as soon prefer there were no TV available, it is, and asking for it to be off is taking it away from everyone else, and not everyone else shares your conviction that TV is evil.


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

Have him put his suit on at home, then he can hold your hand/stay within grabbing distance until his class starts. Treat the TV in the locker room (in your head) like a water hazzard. You wouldn't let him go jump in a lake by himself no matter how hard he tried to sneak away from you, you'd hold onto him to keep him safe.


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## freestyler (Jan 28, 2005)

Yup Moon diapers I agree. In fact, I agree with a whole lot of the posts. Keep the ideas coming please!!


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## Mama2MyMonkeys (Feb 3, 2008)

Why not just loudly announce to anyone else who is in the locker room that you are a mother entering the room to retrieve your son and just march in there and get him? Again, it's a safety issue, and if you make sure your intentions are known, no one can really fault you for being a good parent and making sure your son is safe.

Melissa


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## angie3096 (Apr 4, 2007)

On several occasions at my daughter's swim class I have been asked by a flustered dad or grandpa to go and retrieve a wayward little girl from the women's locker room. Would you feel comfortable asking a male parent for help when your son slips away from you? I agree that this is not really about TV. No way would I want my 8 year old unsupervised in a public place for an hour. This is a safety issue.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *smeisnotapirate* 







:

This kind of thing can lead to a whole bunch of other issues. Who knows what kind of people go in and out of a Y locker room. I'm not willing to trust them, even if I trust my kid that he's just in there watching TV.

I agree with this...there is a safety issue here...really, unsupervised in a men's locker room leaves him very vulnerable. I agree..forget the tv thing, get him out of there even if you have to go in there and get him yourself.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

TV aside -- I agree with the posters who said that the unsupervised time in the locker room is the real issue. There are just too many bad things that can happen.

If I had boys instead of girls, I think in these situations I'd make sure that it was okay for me to take my young boys into the women's locker room with me. Really, any sensible administrator would want to have mothers do this, and would have rules that children under a certain age need an adult with them at all times, rather than opening themselves up to possible litigation if something awful were to happen.

I don't know how comfortable you feel talking with your ds about these kinds of safety hazards. I realize that we all want our children to see the world as a safe place, and we don't want to put thoughts into their heads about adults being potential kidnappers and child abusers. Sometimes I wish we hadn't talked so much with my 7yo about safety issues, because she seems to worry about some stuff, way out of proportion to the actual risk.

It's a fine line to tread. On the one hand, it's good that when my 7yo is crossing our street to play in our neighbor's yard, she'll move waaaay back when a car's coming, rather than waiting at the edge of the curb where it would be easy for someone to snatch her. At the same time, it's bad that she even has to think along these lines, and that she often sizes up strangers walking down the street, and tells me if they "look like they might be kidnappers."

I wish there were some way to accurately convey the reality, that the vast majority of strangers are really nice folks like you and like me -- but it's just that the few bad people out there can be very, very bad, and it's important to be vigilant because of that fraction-of-a-percent of the human race. I mean, I try to explain it, I really do. But it seems like dd is scared a lot these days, and I wish she weren't.









I hope you guys reach a solution that works for your family!

Oh, and even though we're pro-TV (we're Free-TV instead of being TV-Free), I like to know what my children are watching. I like to be in the room with them when they try out anything unfamiliar. So I certainly wouldn't like the idea of my 7yo being off somewhere flipping channels by herself.

But she actually prefers to have dh or me watch with her, anyway.


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## bl987ue (Mar 14, 2006)

The real issue here is not the television or the safety issue so much as it is that he is betraying your trust. If he can't be trusted, he gets treated like a little kid. He has to stay with you at all times when you go to the facility. Period. When he has proven that he has earned some freedom, you can loosen up on your grip a bit. A bit. If he goes right back to his old behavior, you need to put the leash back on, figuratively speaking.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *freestyler* 
And it's like this all over Orange County. There are TVs in all the childcare rooms at church, TVs in all the classrooms in public schools and many private, TVs at the gas stations, TVs in every room in everyone's house, TVs in every medical waiting room and hospital, TVs in the grocery stores.....ypu get the idea. It is awful. There are three things I would eliminate from the world: war, genital mutilation or any hurting of children, and TV. Think what a better, safer, more beautiful world it would be.

More suggestions, anyone?

I was wondering why you were so opposed to TV until I read that. Ack. I can't imagine that much TV. I don't mind my daughter watching TV, but only because she isn't into it and only watches a very little bit and only on some of the days with bad weather. If she were more into it I can't promise I wouldn't get freaked out and do something. And I have no idea how I'd handle an environment with so much tv.

I don't think you have a ton of options.

1. Bring a man you know and trust with you to supervise him in the men's locker room.
2. Get the gym to turn off the TV and somehow keep it from getting turned on again. Maybe they'd have to get rid of it completely? But then other people might not like it and if one person wants it gone and 20 want it to stay you'll lose.
3. Don't take him swimming there - find someplace without a TV or give up on that all together.
4. Do some kind of punishment in an attempt to win this power struggle (and it might escalate a bit as it is really pretty out of your control at that location).
5. Give up on this one. Which wouldn't mean you'd have to be happy about it. You could say you don't like it but you aren't going to sit and fight with him about it all the time.

Personally, I'm more anti-punishment than anti-TV. Even if my daughter were watching an hour a day, I'd put up with that before I'd get into a huge power struggle over it. And at 8, it won't be that much longer before he has more and more opportunities to watch tv behind your back. At some age you will have to give up on it. It's really just a question of when it stops being appropriate for you to make those kinds of decisions for him. 10? 12? 14? I don't have an answer but at some point he'll just be too old for you to control this. At 8 you still have a great deal of ability to control but control isn't something you have all of one day and none of the next. You lose it slowly, and maybe this is the start.

Even if you take him in the women's room to change (at our YMCA I think the age is 7 so it might not even be allowed), like you said, he'll just head back in there. And even if the TV gets turned off, you'd have to somehow know he wouldn't be able to just turn it back on. You have to tail him, someone else has to tail him, or you can't be there and you have to find someplace else without TV. Or he's going to watch some TV. Or you and he are going to have a major punishment/fight/control battle and those can get really ugly.

I feel for you because in your environment I can see why you feel the way you do. But your options are really limited and if swimming is very important to you, it might not be worth the battles. Control-type battles can damage relationships.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

I agree that, for me, the real issue would be having an 8 year old that I couldn't trust not to run away.

But first, a few reactions to other's suggestions... This is a public facility, not a private one. So asking them to turn off the TV isn't appropriate because it impacts other people who want the TV. Yes, parents have a right to make decisions for their children, but not to impose their will on others in a public place. And I know that our Y has rules about how old a child can be in the opposite-sex locker room (at ours its 7). They have them because people have complained about boys (or girls) making them uncomfortable when they are changing. I think not following the rules sets a worse example than the TV, actually. You can, of course, work to change the rules or come up with an alternative suggestion for the entire Y.

Personally, I think that children who can't be trusted don't get to go into a locker room. They get to change in the bathroom and/or at home and stay right by mommy's side. Or they don't get to go to swimming at all. And if they do go into the locker room, mommy gets to go get them (yell a warning in the door, wait a minute, then go).


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## yoginisarah (Dec 20, 2007)

I agree with asking them to turn off the TV. I can't believe there is one in there to begin with. How often do people want to just hang out and watch some TV in a locker room? I'm usually in and out of there as soon as possible!
I also agree with whoever said that I would be even more concerned about who else could be in there for that hour. I'm usually not too paranoid but an entire hour is a long time. Something could have happened before you even realized it.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bl987ue* 
The real issue here is not the television or the safety issue so much as it is that he is betraying your trust.

That's obviously your way of looking at it. But I think it's perfectly healthy for a 7yo to be wanting to differentiate himself a little and start forming his own opinions about TV and other things. So to me the issue is the safety -- and the fact that he could be exposed to some really disturbing stuff while watching all by himself.

And maybe he'd be afraid to even tell his mom if he saw something upsetting. Because he obviously really likes TV, and he wouldn't want one bad experience of his, to make her even more determined to tighten her controls.

Quote:

If he can't be trusted, he gets treated like a little kid.
I think that approach is likely to create more anger in the long run (and even in the short run).

Quote:

He has to stay with you at all times when you go to the facility. Period.
I think he should be staying with his mom anyway, because of safety issues. So I wouldn't present the staying thing as a punishment.

Quote:

When he has proven that he has earned some freedom, you can loosen up on your grip a bit. A bit. If he goes right back to his old behavior, you need to put the leash back on, figuratively speaking.
He's a human being, not a dog.


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## Amulet (Nov 19, 2001)

As a European, I'm horrified at the young age that boys expected to change in their own changing room in the US. I agree about the TV but I'd be WAY more worried about who else was in the room with him and what they were doing!! I have a 9yr old girl 7yr old boy and 4 yr old girl. There is no way in HELL I will let him even go for a pee in a restaurant in the mensroom let alone change at a pool alone. If my husband is not there he comes with me. No one has ever challenged this. In fact, in Europe mixed changing rooms and family changing rooms are becoming the norm which makes life much easier. Maybe I'm paranoid but I think my son will have to be at least 10 or 11 before I'd even consider letting him out of my sight in a place where there was the possibility of him being alone with adult men that I do not know well!
Amulet


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## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

If my dd thought she needed to stay in a locker room away from me for an hour when I asked her to come out, my problem wouldn't be centered on the tv.

What does your ds say about why he doesn't come out when you ask and why he ducks into the locker room?

Honestly, I'm trying to figure out that dynamic to begin with....


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## laoxinat (Sep 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rzberrymom* 
To scare the OP into believing that her values have created this situation is irresponsible, IMHO.










Nobody with the courage to go against the mainstream tide is going to be "scared" by a mere post. Freestyler understands that forbidding TV may be contributing to his _interest_. No one is disputing that she has the right as a parent to do this. I am simply pointing out that I have observed over the course of 20 years as a parent and 25 + years as a teacher, that children often crave the forbidden. Sheesh!


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## yoginisarah (Dec 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amulet* 
As a European, I'm horrified at the young age that boys expected to change in their own changing room in the US. I agree about the TV but I'd be WAY more worried about who else was in the room with him and what they were doing!! I have a 9yr old girl 7yr old boy and 4 yr old girl. There is no way in HELL I will let him even go for a pee in a restaurant in the mensroom let alone change at a pool alone. If my husband is not there he comes with me. No one has ever challenged this. In fact, in Europe mixed changing rooms and family changing rooms are becoming the norm which makes life much easier. Maybe I'm paranoid but I think my son will have to be at least 10 or 11 before I'd even consider letting him out of my sight in a place where there was the possibility of him being alone with adult men that I do not know well!
Amulet

It seems like nudity is not nearly as big of a deal as it is here in the US. People here really do have a problem changing in front of an 8 year old of another gender. I really don't think it is a big deal either. Kids should be able to just change with their parents...but unfortunately, that just doesn't jive with the culture.


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## veggiemomma (Oct 21, 2004)

I guess I would take them all already dressed with street clothes over top. I would take them all with me into the regular bathroom and have them take their street clothes off. Then I would sit in the stands or whatever you usually do with ds. Have him do homework or something ( I am sure you already bring things to keep him occupied.)

If he asks about why he can't go in the locker room, I wouldn't make too big a deal about you not wanting him to watch TV. I would just tell him that it is not safe for him to be unsupervised in a place where strangers are coming in and out and where you can not hear him if he needs help. (I believe all of this to be true, and I believe he is old enough to hear it)

I know what you mean about TV overload. It is not quite as bad here, but there are TVs in the library, resturants, and there is even a building full of attoneys' offices downtown that has TV's in the elevators.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laoxinat* 








Nobody with the courage to go against the mainstream tide is going to be "scared" by a mere post. Freestyler understands that forbidding TV may be contributing to his _interest_. No one is disputing that she has the right as a parent to do this. I am simply pointing out that I have observed over the course of 20 years as a parent and 25 + years as a teacher, that children often crave the forbidden. Sheesh!

This is a human trait...I like a bit of the forbidden too







...I just have a bit more impulse control than your average 8 year old...but just a bit


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

oops


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## senmom (Jan 12, 2007)

Is there a consequence at home? A privilage that can be taken away? At 8 yrs old, he is old enough to make his own "decisions". If he decides to go into the locker room and watch TV instead of not complying with your rules/boundaires....there is a consequence. It is his decision. Tell your ds what you expect and what the consequence is. It is his decision to comply or not. He will face the consequence. Be consistent, follow through.
Asking the facility to turn off the TV is unfair. It is a public place where others pay dues to use the space too.


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## ktmama (Jan 21, 2004)

You've gotten some really great ideas here, OP. I want to, however, specifically address this comment:

_So asking them to turn off the TV isn't appropriate because it impacts other people who want the TV. Yes, *parents have a right to make decisions for their children, but not to impose their will on others in a public place.*_ Other parents demanding the TV be *on* is also imposing *their* will on the OP and her family in a public place.

One of things I would do is ask them to turn off the TV in the locker room. They'll only know it bothers people if they are told. You are a paying member and have every right to let your preferences be known. I've done this several times at my local Y with good results. As a matter of fact, we just got two parking spaces right next to the door reserved for families with small kids based on requests by some moms. So, change can happen, but you have to request it!


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *senmom* 
Asking the facility to turn off the TV is unfair. It is a public place where others pay dues to use the space too.

How many people _really_ want to sit in the Ys locker room watching TV? I would expect dozens of parents would prefer that their children were not watching TV completely unsupervised in the mens lockerroom.

I don't have a TV free home, I show DS videos that we enjoy watching together. Though very few families are going to be completely TV free like the OP most moms do object to some TV show or another, and have a desire to limit screen time somewhat. I suspect if they surveyed members they would find that those who wanted it off out numbered those that wanted it on (most likely those who didn't care one way or another would outnumber both.)

If more people want it off than on then it is not unfair to ask for it off.


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## freestyler (Jan 28, 2005)

People here do not give a flying cr*p if their kids are watching TV, and lots of it. In Orange County, I mean. They look at you like you have two heads if you ask politely, "May I turn off the TV?" because you see no one is actually watching the thing. Gasp---did you see that woman? She actually wanted to turn the TV OFF, can you imagine? What is wrong with her? People here, I kid you not, actually think it is wrong to turn off a TV.

The facility is a private one, and kind of fancy as it caters to a pretty, uh, wealthy clientele (we're exceptions to the wealthy rule!). But nonetheless, the same safety rules apply as ANYWHERE else. You all are totally right about this. I think I would get more effectiveness by taking an approach based on not wanting him unsupervised, rather than an anti-TV approach.

And consequences, yup. There need to be some. Have not thought of any yet, just natural/logical consequences. I guess I'm not so great at the more "creative" aspects of parenting. Parenting is hard. Keeping the kids physically and morally safe....difficult, isn't it sometimes? Or so it can seem at any rate.


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## ryleeee (Feb 9, 2005)

does your son REALLY like swimming? it seems to me if he is not super into it and would rather watch tv than swim, then he would choose to disobey you and face the consequences of not having to go to practice for a week...he still has the chance to sneak back in when you aren't looking and stay there because he knows that you won't come get him (after all, it's been a year and he's gotten away with it for that long)

i mean, i know you have a family full of water babies, but does swim team mean anything to him or does he just love the water? i think there is a difference.

if it was my 7/8 year old (no offense but i would not let my son alone into a change room full of naked men i didn't know until he was at least 10) and he was longer than 5 minutes, i would get the lifeguard to go in there and get him. every. time.

take away something he LOVES for every minute he is late. if you give him 5 minutes to get changed and he is 15, take 10 minutes off his _____________ time/activity. if he still doesn't listen, take double. but seriously...i'd consider getting the lifeguard.

is there no family change rooms? that seems really strange to me. i've never been to a pool with an age limit...our pool has a womens change room, then a family change room, and then a mens change room...but they are all connected together. i would be taking him with me to the family change room or the womens if there was no family one.


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## rzberrymom (Feb 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laoxinat* 








Nobody with the courage to go against the mainstream tide is going to be "scared" by a mere post. Freestyler understands that forbidding TV may be contributing to his _interest_. No one is disputing that she has the right as a parent to do this. I am simply pointing out that I have observed over the course of 20 years as a parent and 25 + years as a teacher, that children often crave the forbidden. Sheesh!

I only take issue with the insinuation that it has to do with this boy's level of exposure. A child's lack of impulse control when it comes to television is unlikely to have much to do with the level of exposure--tv is addictive, it's hypnotic, it's controlling. A child who is exposed to tv every day is still unlikely to be able to resist the pull of tv. Heck, most adults I know can't turn the thing off! It's the very nature of the medium.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rzberrymom* 
I only take issue with the insinuation that it has to do with this boy's level of exposure. A child's lack of impulse control when it comes to television is unlikely to have much to do with the level of exposure


Wait, so you're saying that the level of exposure doesn't mean anything but then you said that a child who regularly watches TV (which would be a _level of exposure_) cannot choose to NOT watch TV?









Quote:

-tv is addictive, it's hypnotic, it's controlling. A child who is exposed to tv every day is still unlikely to be able to resist the pull of tv. Heck, most adults I know can't turn the thing off! It's the very nature of the medium.
 I would say that for some people TV has proven to be addictive. For many others it has not. It just depends. Some folks are hard wired for addiction I think.

We do not restrict media in our family and I wouldn't say that anyone is addicted. We watch it a lot because we enjoy it, but many times we just leave it off. It just depends.


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## rzberrymom (Feb 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa* 

Wait, so you're saying that the level of exposure doesn't mean anything but then you said that a child who regularly watches TV (which would be a _level of exposure_) cannot choose to NOT watch TV?









I'm saying that all humans have difficulty turning away from TV, regardless of their exposure to it. Suggesting that the problem is that she's not exposing him to it (and therefore he can't turn away from it) is a false argument.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rzberrymom* 
I'm saying that all humans have difficulty turning away from TV, regardless of their exposure to it. Suggesting that the problem is that she's not exposing him to it (and therefore he can't turn away from it) is a false argument.

I totally disagree that all humans struggle with turning away from TV. Whether or not the OP has a forbidden fruit situation happening with her Ds isn't really clear to me, but it seems likely, and it's an obvious power struggle in any case.

Thank you for clarifying.


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## rzberrymom (Feb 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa* 
I totally disagree that all humans struggle with turning away from TV. Whether or not the OP has a forbidden fruit situation happening with her Ds isn't really clear to me, but it seems likely, and it's an obvious power struggle in any case.

Thank you for clarifying.









I definitely didn't mean to debate TV here. I just felt it was important to speak up, as the idea that it was about 'forbidden fruit' was being thrown out there as a given. I agree that it's a power struggle though. But then again, I think it would be with most TV-watching 8 year olds I know.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Family changerooms are nice too - I know you can't make them appear but this might be an opportunity to mention it to your local pool so that they can plan them for the future.


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## STJinNoVa (Dec 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yoginisarah* 
It seems like nudity is not nearly as big of a deal as it is here in the US. People here really do have a problem changing in front of an 8 year old of another gender. I really don't think it is a big deal either. Kids should be able to just change with their parents...but unfortunately, that just doesn't jive with the culture.

my issue with boys of a particular age in the women's locker room (and i do have an issue with it, and i have called people out on it because our rec center does have famil changing rooms) is not really about nudity. it's that 8-year-old boys stare. it is really not so prudish to be uncomfortable having a boy you don't know staring at you while you're taking off your underpants.

and if your hands are too full to keep him from wandering into the locker room to watch tv, your hands are too full to notice that he's staring at someone.

if there are no family changing rooms, and this were an absolutely immovable thing for me, then he comes to the Y dressed for swim under street clothes and does not even go near the locker room at all until it is clear he will do as i wish.


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## yoginisarah (Dec 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *STJinNoVa* 
my issue with boys of a particular age in the women's locker room (and i do have an issue with it, and i have called people out on it because our rec center does have famil changing rooms) is not really about nudity. it's that 8-year-old boys stare. it is really not so prudish to be uncomfortable having a boy you don't know staring at you while you're taking off your underpants.

and if your hands are too full to keep him from wandering into the locker room to watch tv, your hands are too full to notice that he's staring at someone.

if there are no family changing rooms, and this were an absolutely immovable thing for me, then he comes to the Y dressed for swim under street clothes and does not even go near the locker room at all until it is clear he will do as i wish.

8 year old boys stare in this country because they never see it. If it were no big deal, they wouldn't care. There are plenty of countries where being naked is not taboo at all and therefore it isn't something new or interesting.
I'm not saying this would fly in the US or that it is appropriate in a US changing room to have this happen because of our culture. I was just explaining why in Europe this would be totally fine whereas in the US it isn't.
I wouldn't definitely use a family changing room when my son got older just because it is easier if there is only one parent and multiple children.
I can't say that I really care though if an 8 year old boy is staring at my naked body. But I do understand the circumstances and culture in the US that make it uncomfortable for many others.


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## twilight girl (Mar 7, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ktmama* 
Other parents demanding the TV be *on* is also imposing *their* will on the OP and her family in a public place.

Nobody ever said the TV was on because of other parents demands to have it on. The Y has TVs in the locker room, and turns them on. There are people other than parents that frequent the Y. And, as the OP stated TV is apparently ubiquitous in Orange County. So, other parents are not imposing their will on anyone here necessarily.

If I were a client of that Y, I would be eternally grateful for the TV in the locker room. Why? because it would keep my DD rooted for a few minutes while I try to change, or change the baby, or put her clothes in her backpack or whatever. In her case, the allure of the pool would way overpower the allure of television when it came time for class. And, it´s very possible that this is because we have a TV at home and she is allowed to have a turn watching a show she likes. We don´t have a pool at home though, so she will be drawn to the pool .... well, like a fish to water







It´s also possible that she just likes to swim more than she likes TV, and it has nothing to do with the fact that TV is not forbidden.

But, back to the point. If I were a client there, and appreciated the fact that they have a TV on in the locker room, that does not mean that I am insisting that it be on, nor am I forcing my parenting choices on anyone else.


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## smeisnotapirate (Aug 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yoginisarah* 
8 year old boys stare in this country because they never see it. If it were no big deal, they wouldn't care. There are plenty of countries where being naked is not taboo at all and therefore it isn't something new or interesting.
I'm not saying this would fly in the US or that it is appropriate in a US changing room to have this happen because of our culture. I was just explaining why in Europe this would be totally fine whereas in the US it isn't.
I wouldn't definitely use a family changing room when my son got older just because it is easier if there is only one parent and multiple children.
I can't say that I really care though if an 8 year old boy is staring at my naked body. But I do understand the circumstances and culture in the US that make it uncomfortable for many others.

I agree.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *STJinNoVa* 
my issue with boys of a particular age in the women's locker room (and i do have an issue with it, and i have called people out on it because our rec center does have famil changing rooms) is not really about nudity. it's that 8-year-old boys stare. it is really not so prudish to be uncomfortable having a boy you don't know staring at you while you're taking off your underpants.

Well, yes, that would make me uncomfortable, too. But do the boys stare any more than the girls do? If the mom didn't notice and deal with it, I wouldn't have a problem with saying, "Hey, do you like being stared at when you're changing clothes?" (because most 8yo children have begun to develop their own sense of modesty, and chances are, it would bug them if I stood there and stared at them, you know? So they'd understand way more than a 2yo would).

Now, if it were another adult staring, I'd be more likely to report it as harassment. But with a kid, I think I'd just say something directly to him or his mom the first time, and see if making him aware of how I felt solved the problem.

Quote:

and if your hands are too full to keep him from wandering into the locker room to watch tv, your hands are too full to notice that he's staring at someone.
But I bet if you said something to the child about his staring, his mom would hear and then she'd be aware of the problem. It certainly wouldn't offend me if someone said something to my 8yo, because I was too busy with smaller children and didn't realize she'd been staring. I'd want to be aware so I could talk with her about it.

An 8yo staring wouldn't feel the same to me as an adult staring. I'd see it more as a teaching moment, than as intentional harassment.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Another thing about the staring: It sounds like this particular 8yo wouldn't be starting at the naked women anyway, 'cause he'd be to busy stating at the TV!


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## laoxinat (Sep 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rzberrymom* 
I only take issue with the insinuation that it has to do with this boy's level of exposure. A child's lack of impulse control when it comes to television is unlikely to have much to do with the level of exposure--tv is addictive, it's hypnotic, it's controlling. A child who is exposed to tv every day is still unlikely to be able to resist the pull of tv. Heck, most adults I know can't turn the thing off! It's the very nature of the medium.

Well, I certainly agree that TV is insidious!! What I'm saying is not that mama's forbidding of TV is _causing_ his interest, but that it may be contributing to him feeling 'deprived' of something he wants. Which is why I agree with pps that the focus needs to be on safety and him keeping his word, rather than on TV itself. But I disagree that the simple condition of being regularly exposed to TV is going to 'cause' him to be unable to resist it. There are many more factors involved, creating a multilayered interaction. E.G. my DS was a total TV junkie, and my DD couldn't care less. Same family, virtually the exact same exposure level. It's an interaction, not a simple case of stimulus-response. KWIM?


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Yeah, TV is not addictive for everyone. My daughter couldn't care less about the TV. But my husband watches a little every day when he gets home from work. She usually pays no attention to it, and she only very rarely asks to watch anything. She goes months on end without watching TV in the spring and summer, when it's nice outside. I have no interest in the TV either. I think some people are drawn to it and some people aren't.

I'm lucky my daughter isn't particularly interested in it. I have two very conflicting opinions about this. On one hand, I hate being controlling and I would want her to be able to decide for herself. But on the other hand, I don't like TV and hate the idea of my daughter watching much of it - both because I think it can be mind-numbing and I often don't like the content - I think some of it, even some kids shows, can push kids to grow up a bit fast. So if she liked TV, I'd be in a real pickle trying to work between those two issues. Also, it isn't like watching or not watching TV is a choice between me controlling her or no one controlling her. It's more like a choice between me controlling her or multi-zillion dollar marketing pros controlling her. Which is why my general hatred of control eases way up when I consider the TV.


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## leafylady (Nov 19, 2001)

We do allow tv and I yet I still am sure that my 8 yr old son would do the same thing if he had the opportunity.

Like many of the others, as a Mother I would be most concerned that he could sit there in the locker room for an hour unsupervised by one of his parents. For simple safety reasons, I think you have every right to go in there and get him yourself or to ask a staff member to get him.
He shouldn't be in there, unsupervised by an adult of your choice, for any time, let alone a whole hour.


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## Laggie (Nov 2, 2005)

So the scenario is this:

Your son, who is 8, runs away from you at the pool, back into the change room, to watch TV (or refuses to come out in the first place) after you have told him repeatedly not to. Every day. And this has been going on for a YEAR?

Are there other times when he repeatedly does the opposite of what you have asked him to do? What does he say about it? Does he agree not to do it and then do it anyway, or ??? I guess you and he have not come to an agreement on it. Maybe DD is exceptionally well behaved, but I can't imagine her doing something like that every day at age 8.

After a year of allowing it to happen, I'm not sure what you can do short of eliminating the opportunity - can you leave him with somebody else when you take the other boys to swimming, and find a different activity for him? Maybe allow 15 minutes of TV and then he has to come out? Mind you, I would still be worried about what kinds of shows he would be watching. We are not TV free but I wouldn't want DD watching cable unsupervised. Are there other kids in there with him when he's doing this?


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