# The Thyroid Thread



## *Jessica*

Link to The Thyroid Thread (Part II)

Can we get a tribe of mommas with thyroid problems (hypo/hyper/Hashimoto's/Graves) started? I've searched the archives and noticed that a lot of the thyroid posts get very few responses. Maybe if we keep it all in one thead we can compile a great list of resources for mommas looking for answers. Good idea?

If you know of any links that provide exceptional information on thryoid problems please post them and I'll continually edit the first post to reflect changes in the list.


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## pumpkin

I had Hashimoto's with an antibody count that was off the charts. Spent many years trying to get a doctor to believe my concerns and not assume I was a hypochondriac. At the ripe old age of 27 I was finally diagnosed with papillary carcinoma. I had a complete thyroidectomy followed by radioactive iodine ablation. By the time I got the surgery I had been begging for for years, my thyroid had wrapped itself around my carotid artery. I also lost 3 of my parathyroid glands.

Overall my health has dramatically improved post surgery. I'm on synthroid and occasionally have to adjust my dosage. I also have to work hard to keep my calcium levels up.

My biggest problem is that my periods are completely screwed up. I believe its related to my thyroid levels and notice a correlation between my TSH and how normal my periods are. But so far I've had no luck in actually solving the problem. And hence, I remain childless, but really have enjoyed al the time I've spent studying up on parenting here at MDC.


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## *Jessica*

Ugh, I'm going to cry! I had a huge post typed out and the baby erased it all! I'll post my story when I can find the time to. For now, does anyone have any experience with thyroid problems and extreme anger/rage?

pumpkin~I have a grandmother who had a complete thyroidectomy and my mother had to have 2 of her parathyroid glands removed. I'm sorry you are having no luck getting pregnant. It must be a really hard place to be in.







s


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## doulajewla

I am hyperthyroid and can tell you for 3 years now, going on 4, i have been a horrible mother to my children. I dont mean it, but i was undiagnosed until 2 months ago and i scream and scream for no reason. everything irritates me and i am not the mom i used to be. I freak every single day about something. I get so heated and so mad....i cant control it. I just wanted to pop in and say you are not alone. I am on my way to figuring out alternative methods of treating hyperthyroid, because i was put on a beta blocker that caused me to have severe asthma attacks...and the dr knows i have severe asthma since i was 2! i distrust all docs and endos at this point....i am so angry...i know how you are feeling with your anger.


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## lilith_382

When I was first diagnosed with Graves I was hesitant to attribute my rage to the disease, but as my meds start to work I realize it had a lot to do with it. I have gotten so used to blaming myself that this came as a shock. I have never known motherhood without hyperthyroidism, and I am optimistic. The past 4 years have been hell though. I have bought parenting book after parenting book and kicked myself when I couldnt seem to adhere to the principles. I have been so impatient, tense, sleep deprived and so angry. I just wanted to contribute my experience with the rage part. This is a great idea for a thread.


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## babygrant

i'm hypo....but i'm nak so cant type much. subbing to this thread though.


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## staceyshoe

I'm hypothyroid and was diagnosed 7 yrs ago. Just started meds 4 yrs ago because I didn't believe the diagnosis at first. I have few symptoms, and my primary issue is poor adrenal function which seems to have caused my thyroid to wear down. Currently I'm taking Armour thyroid.


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## AngelaB

what were your symptoms. what made you finally get tested and what testing was done?

I see my doc on wed and I am going to ask about testing. I have felt like crap for a while now. I am 4 months PP and my neck feels funny all the time and its really hard to stay calm. I am prone to panic attacks as well so the neck thing is hell. My eyes seem blury and my head feels fuzzy and foggy too. My hair is falling out but it does this every year at this time. I also get heart palpitations as well. My mom and brother have thyroid problems too.
Anyways Im a little freaked.

Thanks
Angela


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## babygrant

i thought i had ppd. i would cry all the time, anger outbursts, very very tired, gained 16 lbs in one month, hair falling out....

i had my tsh levels done. normal is between 1 and 3...i was 15.6


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## tricia80

hi,

I have hypothyroidism after treatment for Graves. I had a very severe form of Graves disease which could not be controlled. Hospitalized many times due to high BP and uncontrollable shaking. I went through radioactive iodine therapy and now i do not have a functioning thyroid at all. I do seem to have a short fuse. But I never thought of attributing it to my thyroid issues.

Thats pretty much my short story.


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## Felicitymom

Hey everyone!!! Never thought there were soooo many gals out there like me







I am definetely







this thread.

I had hyper... (never got officially diagnosed with Graves or anything...I went to one endo who freaked me out and I ran and ran until I reached the naturopath.... went there for several years and had several alternative therapies which seemed to buy me some time), but alas, 3 years after my first bloodtest showed an irregular thyroid... I took the dred radioactive iodine.

The doc gave me a huge







: dose and now my thyroid is done for. I actually like it that way, that way my hormone dose doesn't fluctuate... I have none of the mood swings, or symptoms that I am reading about. I take my little synthroid pill everyday and all is well. (I did have to adjust the dose while prego).

Hey, let me ask.... does it drive anyone else crazy that we can only get a perscription for a small amount of meds at one time???? Like why can't I just have a damn lifetime perscription????? WTF?????? I have to go get my pills in 90 count doses. Am I an idiot? Am I going to OD? or sell on the black market???? Oh why, oh why can't I just get 365 pills once a year?

Okay, that's it for now.
Nancy


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## *Jessica*

I *think* I finally have a few minutes to type.

I have a quick appointment today to go over my symptoms with my doc and to get my lab order. In case anyone is wondering why I have to see the doc before they'll send me for bloodwork....I haven't seen a doctor (aside from an OB) since the pre-TTC appointment I had three years ago where we discussed my borderline hypothyroid levels and agreed to keep checking them every 6 months or so. Not long after that we had troubles with their office and decided they were not the physicians for us! We switched docs and the boys have both seen the new doctor (who we really like and is ok with our no vaxing....woohoo!) but I haven't seen him for medical care yet. That's why he has to see me quickly before my labs. Until they have me in their system they can't just print out orders.

On to my symptoms.....

Goiter: identified at my last appt 3 years ago

Fatigue: For the last three weeks I've gotten progressively worse regarding how much I can even function because my body is so tired. I'm not ready for a nap, but I feel like if I sit on the couch my body will never let me get
up again. Forget playing with the boys, I just physically cannot do it.









Constipation coupled with the opposite: I have never in my life dealt with this issue. For a week or so I'm constipated and then I get really frequent soft bowel movements for a couple of weeks, then constipation again.

Dry skin: Over the last couple of years my skin has become _terribly_ dry and flaky. Right now it looks great, perhaps because it is so humid here nothing could be dry?

Forgetfulness: I blamed it on pregnancy and motherhood, but my memory is truly horrific lately. I used to have a fabulous memory, so this is highly unusual for me. I forgot my own phone number yesterday!









Hair loss: In the last 3 years my pony tail has shrunk to half of it's original size. And my hair hangs halfway down my back so imagine finding it everywhere. *sigh* I have to cut it off of the vacuum before using it every single time I vacuum, providing I have the energy to vacuum of course!

Heat/cold intolerance: I alternate between being cold on 80 degree days and sweating profusely on much cooler days. It's hard to get dressed these days.

Depression: Some days I really just want to die. I could never kill myself, but I have far too many *I wish I would just fall over dead* days lately. And my life (aside from these symptoms) is *so* good! Depression doesn't fit.

Anxiety attacks: I used to very occasionally get really overwhelmed and need to leave a store when shopping. I feel that way often in the last couple of months. Too many people and I can't breathe and I need OUT NOW! I feel sick and panicky thinking about it. I just want to stay home and never leave.

Lighter menstrual periods: But is this because of my thyroid or the fact that I now use a Diva/cloth pads? Or is it just natural changes after having a second child?

Weight loss: After going years having a HARD time losing weight I have lost 14 pounds in 3 weeks with no dietary changes. In fact, we had three birthdays and all of the cake that goes with, plus a visit from my brother the chef in that time.

Fuzzy eyesight: Is it time for an eye appointment or a symptom?

Rage: Aside from the fatigue this is the worst! Do you know how hard it is for an AP momma to feel rage at her children?! I have threatened to spank and actually done so a couple of times. Me!!!! And then I get so depressed I just want to run away so my kids don't have to live with a terrible momma. Ugh! So I try extra hard to be gentle and attentive, but them I'm so tired and my body just wants to not be bounced on anymore and my ears hurt and I just WANT TO BE LEFT ALONE! And I get angrier and angrier and can't seem to diffuse it no matter how hard I try. I really hate myself right now.

So it is possible that I was hypothyroid (like my mother and grandfather) for those 3 years (untreated) and my thyroid tried so hard to work that it has become overactive? It doesn't seem possible but my symptoms are _so weird._ I also have a hyperthyroid grandmother (on my father's side) who had to have her thyroid removed.

Well, regardless, I go today for answers and hope I get them quickly because I'm so tired and I can't take it anymore! I'll update you all on what happens.


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## Indigomama

I don't officially have any "thyroid diagnosis."

I've just been struggling with an enlarged thryoid, hypo symptoms (irregular/lite menstral periods, exhaustion, depression, etc), and "normal" blood tests.

I've been actually able to drag myself to the gym for the last year, have yet to lose one single pound, and while the deep depression I was sinking into has lifted, I definitely don't feel like wow or enthusiastic 'bout much.

It's been a year since my last blood test, and with the help of monthly colon cleansing & some herbal supplements to support the adrenal gland, my thyroid has went down from visibly noticeable to only noticeable....I know, I know... I need to go back to be tested but the thought of trying to find another dr after so much frustration is so exhausting..............

I have a mother and grandmother with hypothyroidism & two maternal aunts with lupus...

Am I the only one who goes to the dr and prays for bad news? It would be so much more comforting than this!


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## jerawo

Graves' Disease treated with radioactive iodine now hypothyroid here







:

I was pretty sick when I was diagnosed, but luckily my mother (a nurse practitioner) realized I had a goiter after only 3-4 months of bad symptoms so I wasn't very sick for long (I was probably a little sick for several years though). After a few months and tons of research, I decided to do the RAI and get my well self back. I also had Graves' Eye Disease, but luckily it went away once I killed my thryoid. It took about 8 months to get my medication adjusted, then I was given the green light to have a baby. My baby was born at home just 2 years shy of my RAI anniversary. I had to have my medication adjusted during most of my pregnancy, and I am still needing adjustments over 1 year pp. Obviously all the changes my body has been through in the past 2 years are still affecting my thyroid. I take a pretty high dose of synthroid.

I'm happy with my choices. My only regret is that I didn't see a therapist and go on an anti-depressant. The depression symptom lasted a long time, long after all my other symptoms were gone. I'm a little sad to think about the years I had thyroid induced depression.


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## atpeace

Indigomama - I totally agree with you about the "praying for bad news" thing! Before I got diagnosed, I just wanted to know what the heck was wrong with me so I could work to fix it...the lack of control was infuriating!

Wow, thyroid issues are pretty common it seems. I'm hypo, diagnosed this past February, just a week before I found out I was pregnant. Close call...my TSH level was a whopping 61, and the doc insisted I come back for a prescription of synthroid immediately...I had been feeling a little sluggish, having headaches, and feeling cold often, but those were my only symptoms.

Thank goodness it's been well controlled since then, because I've read thyroid issues can have a serious impact on pregnancy (higher chance of miscarriage, which I had last year, a link to ectopic pregnancies, which I also had last year, and lower IQ in kids if it's not controlled throughout pregnancy, which hopefully won't be my case).

I'm just pissed that a simple blood test like this isn't routinely offered to women who are even thinking of getting pregnant! I only got tested because I insisted on a whole slew of blood tests when DH and I were ready to start TTC again, and the doc reluctantly obliged. ARGH!


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## zane

hi! Wow it is so great to find others just like me.









I have Hasimoto's thyroiditis and reactive hypoglycema (which I think is related).
I have been seeing a GP who is working with me, but run out of idea. He is much more interested in physical symptoms, and what is giving me the most trouble is the rage. I am being referred to a Endo soon. GP is willing to both call and explain my situation first (and feel the guy out so I won't be treated like a wacko) then to follow up with a letter explaining my case. I really love this guy.

I am currently taking 32mcg of Cytomel. Last TSH was .27, but it bounces wildly to both ends of the 'normal' spectrum

My symptoms

Goiter: identified 3 or 4 years ago by evil endo. Also got Hashi dx at that time. Lately there are lumps on my throat that even I can feel. Dr sent me for a sono, and will repeat it in a few months.

Fatigue: Always. But I am cosleeping mama to two kids 3y and 15m, plus bf the youngest, so of course I am tired. My meds seem to help with this

Dry skin: This was a big problem for a while, but meds seem to help

Forgetfulness/Concentration: I didn't realise that this was a thyroid issue, but my memory is shot. I am a bad driver these days because I am so easily distracted by radio, children, cell phone, the weather . . huh what was I saying again??

Heat/cold intolerance: This was me for the longest time. I felt cold ALWAYS except while pg. Glad to say that meds have improved this and I feel normal now.

Anxiety attacks: I blame my blood sugar issues for this, but maybe its thyroid too. "I used to very occasionally get really overwhelmed and need to leave a store when shopping. I feel that way often in the last couple of months. Too many people and I can't breathe and I need OUT NOW! I feel sick and panicky thinking about it. I just want to stay home and never leave." THAT!

Menstrual periods: My cycles are long 35-40 days. They used to be very irregular but seem to be falling in line lately. I have an IUD and am having long and heavy bleeds with lots of spotting, don't know what to blame for that.

Weight loss: I have always had a hard time losing weight. Was gaining for a while, but meds have helped me stabilize just above where I would like to be

Appetite - HUNGRY always (even when TSH is high). Huge craving for sweets no matter what I eat. Could re-eat a meal 10min after I finish. Is this thyroid or hypoglycemia? I feel awful - cold, tired, foggy thinking, RAGE, when I don't eat or feel low, but then get in a hole and can't eat enough to feel better. One morning donut is enough to literally ruin an entire day.

Rage: I get homicidal and/or suicidal just about daily. I get overwhelmed, angry and just can't cope. I yell, am too rough with the kids, and contemplate just flinging one of us out a window. I don't believe I really would kill us, but some days its a near thing. This is usually blood sugar related, but again, how much peanut butter can one person eat? My feelings sneak up on me and overwhelm me. I hate it, I am afriad of it, I just don't know how to make it better.

I have had these symptoms in varying degrees forever. It seems that being pregnant, breastfeeding, and living with children has put me in crisis mode. I haven't felt good for any long stretch in about 4 yrs.

I am not crazy. When I feel good I am a good mom. Its like being the incredible hulk, these things (thyroid, blood sugar, ??) sneak up and take me over.


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## adtake

Hashimoto's here..

I was diagnoised in college, um 14 years ago. Was having spotting pretty constant, cold sensativity, no appitite, weight gain, dry skin, mood swings...Dr tried birth control first and that straightened out my period, but not much else. Finally got bloood work and sent to Endo. First 2 years getting it straightened out, take synthroid now. I had to change meds with preg #1 a few times and with #3 a few times, but it stays pretty much the same.

Nice to be around people who can relate!

sandra


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## purplegirl

I just started a thread looking for help with my thyroid problem. I learned today that my thyroid is "massive" and going into my chest cavity. Actually, I've known for years that I had a goiter but my doc wanted to "watch and wait". Well, now it seems it is critical as my breathing is afffected and my trachea is compressed. I am seeing a surgeon next week and am VERY SCARED. I was wondering if anyone knew of natural ways to shrink this organ? I was really hoping to be able to do medication to shrink it but my doc says I am beyond that point. Thanks in advance.


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## cloak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Felicitymom*
I have to go get my pills in 90 count doses.

I am still reading through the thread but had to comment on this. My doc tried to prescribe me 90 count and my insurance will only let me get 30 at a time!!! I have to go every freaking 30 days to get my pills.

BTW, I have hashimotos diagnosed during my last pregnancy. Still trying to figure out how to tell if you feel like crap because you have a baby and don't get any sleep or if your thyroid meds are not the right meds for you.


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## kewb

Hashimoto's. I was diagnosed at 13. Fortunately my mom noticed my goiter. This may also explain why I was such a late bloomer.

Symptom that led to diagnosis: Goiter
Treatment: I have been taking Synthroid since I was 15. I love my endo and have been seeing him since I was 13.

Other symptoms:
I have always had skin that leads towards dry.
Menstral Cycle when not on the pill was 28-31 days.
I used to always feel cold but after my first child that problem has gone away. I think I am peri-menopausal.
I chalk up my fatigue and lack of concentration to motherhood more than my thyroid.
Appetite: I feel hungry alot but my appetite did decrease when my dosage was changed at my last blood test.

Pill count: I have to order my pills by mail in order to get the 90 day count. It is so the insurance companies can earn more dollars.


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## beanma

i'm here! i am hypo. i have never seen an endo, but have been treated by several different gen practioners past 13 yrs or so. currently am under the care of the midwives who delivered dd2 and do my well woman care. i do love them, but sometimes wonder if i should see an endo. i think i probably have hashimotos, but don't really know. my dose of synthroid has been pretty consistent for the past 12/13 yrs with some adjustment at the beginning and in pregnancy number 2. before synthroid i got cold all the time and had a bit of brain fog and i remember i would have trouble making the effort to keep my eyes focused. i could do it easily enough, but it was easier to let them go unfocused. not good while driving. i have had depression issues (not treated) and lack of motivation issues (that feeling that i could sink into the couch never to return) off and on forever. my skin is probably the biggest issue i have now. it tends toward dry, but i also have a lot of vitiligo (lack of pigmentation) though luckily not on my face. it's associated with thyroid issues, but it's an autoimmune condition, too.

a good site with a ton of info on thyroid issues (both hypo and hyper) is www.thyroid.about.com and yes it can swing wildly especially after birth. if you're considering getting it checked out my advice would be go ahead and do it. check out that site, too.

as for the pill thing, often thyroid folks need to be rechecked and have their dosages adjusted so maybe that's why they don't want to let us get more than 30/90 pills at a time?


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## supercrunch

I have a goiter but normal levels. The endocrinologist is saying that we will probably have to get rid of it within a year or so before it gets too large (either surgically or with RAI).

Could someone tell me about the RAI method? How long do you have to stay away from family/kids?
My ds sleeps wrapped around my neck so I know that will have to be avoided for a while.

how did you all handle that situation?


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## crissei

Hi,
Just wanted to introduce myself. I don't have a thyroid problem but my son does and, since I haven't seen any other kids on MDC that have it, I thought y'all wouldn't mind me posting here.









My DS was diagnosed with congenital hypothyroidism at 33 weeks gestation (he was a 30 week preemie) when they did the newborn screening. He has been on 18.75g. of synthroid since then.
My sister has Hashimotos. Supposedly un-related









~Crissei


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## jerawo

You have to stay away from adults for 3 days, and children/babies for 2 weeks. You can be in the same room as them, but no touching. You also have to use your own toilet during that time, and have your own eating utensils, plates, and cups.

I bet it will be hard to do with a child. I didn't have children yet when I did mine, and DH had to go out of town the next day which made it easier.

Sort of a funny story...Two weeks after my RAI, DH and I flew to Canada in order to get to a wedding in Northern Minnesota. As we drove through this tiny US border crossing, I set off the radiation detector. We couldn't figure out why the border patrol was asking us if we'd had cancer treatments recently, then it dawned on us that I had set the detector off. We just explained the situation and they let us through with no problems. The same thing happened in the airport when we went through customs, and again I just explained my situation and there were no problems. It was nice to find out that the detectors are very sensitive.


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## supercrunch

yikes!

I wonder if insurance would pay for a hotel stay. I guess that's something to look into. I almost wonder if it would be easier on the kids if I opted for surgery. I was in the hospital for a week for my last surgery and that was hard enough on them. I can't imagine 2 weeks


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## jerawo

Surgery might be a better option for you. Like I said, I think doing the RAI with children is going to be hard. I decided not to do the surgery, because I didn't need to be pregnant in the next 12 months and I felt that there was a bigger risk with the surgery because of the possible damage to the parathyroid glands. My father is a doctor and he didn't want me to have the surgery at all. I made up my mind, but I did take his input into consideration. Of course, plenty of people have sucessful surgeries with no complications. I would just make sure you use a surgeon who removes thyroid glands everyday and who is an expect!


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## supercrunch

I guess I can hold out hope that it can wait a few years, until my kids would be more ready for that kind of separation. My levels have been normal for about 2 yearswithout any meds...so it's just the big ole thyroid that we're dealing with.







:


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## Synchro246

I have read that flouride, chlorine, and bromine in the system can interfere with iodine's place (much the way lead will with iron). Over the course of my life I have been exposed to truely high levels of all three. (If you care how I will tell you)
I was wondering what testing is available that would help me figure out if I have a true interference going on, or if it's something else. My thyroid hormone levels were WNL when they were tested last.
IF my iodine levels are off- how can I get iodine to replace the florine, chlorine, and bromine that found there way into my system?

Anyone know????TIA


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## TanyaS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cloak*
I am still reading through the thread but had to comment on this. My doc tried to prescribe me 90 count and my insurance will only let me get 30 at a time!!! I have to go every freaking 30 days to get my pills.


I am able to get a 90 day supply through the mail order pharmacy with three refills. If I tried to take it to a local pharmacy, I'd only be able to get it in a 30 day supply. When I'm not pregnant, my levels are pretty stable, and I only go get it checked every six months unless I have symptoms return.

I've been hypo for nearly 10 years. I am one of those that synthroid alone was not enough so I also take cytomel. I know exactly at what TSH level I feel best, and have a hard time convincing doctors to listen to me because my TSH might be in the normal range, just not where I feel best.


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## Ravin

Hypothyroid here. It runs in my family (mom, grandmother, an aunt), so when I showed symptoms as a preadolescent my mom insisted I be tested. I've been on synthroid since I was 11 (grew 6 inches in the year after starting!) While I was in the Navy, the military docs a few times took me off the med, I'd get run down, and they put me back on--usually a lower dose than I needed. I gained 35 lbs. during my six years in the military, partly from lack of exercise (yes, there is irony there), partly from poor management of my thyroid, I think.

Once I got out of the service, the first doc I saw upped my meds. I had no trouble getting pregnant once it was adjusted, and it didn't need adjusting during pregnancy, though did need lowering for a couple of months postpartum.


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## member

:

Hypo due to Hashi's here. I was diagnosed after an ER visit due to dehydration (gut issues) and I never would have guessed as I've spent most of my life fearing diabetes.

I went through the u/s of nodules, FNA biopsy, and now another u/s in three months because endo wants to see if the nodules are shrinking. I take 100mcg Synthroid daily and my TSH is below 3 now when it was 53 at first.

The depression and anxiety is still awful for me. I take scrips but I am wanting to get off of them in the next nine months (sooner rather than later) and try a more natural way again. I also have rage issues, it's "nice" to see other people with similar problems.


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## Barcino

I am Hypo. I got diagnosed a couple of months ago. Seems like it kicked in for me after pregnancy. I had a son last September 30th who died a week after birth... as if I did not have enough going on with grieving for him I got striked with the darn hypothyroidsm and I feel like a dog most days. I went to the midwive (practices with a OBGYN) and they started me on synthroid but I need to go back and I *KNOW* my dose needs to be upped because I still feel horrible. Tired all the time, fogged up, cold, and I have gained a bunch of weight. I was in tip top shape during my pregnancy and lost all my weight the day my son was born but now I am heavier than I was at 9 mo. with him







I really feel horrendous. I think I am going to find a good endo to manage my thyroid issues as I dont think my midwife obgyn is good enough for this. Other than for this they are great though







I rather just go with someone that deals with this all the time. Anyway... I am rambling... probably a thyroid symptom







My periods are irregular and that is what made me go get bloodwork and how we found out. I am hoping to get pregnant again soon but I need to get back to fit first and make sure that i have the hypothyroidsm under controls. Fun Fun!


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## AngelaB

Did anyones lymph nodes swell and shrink depending on your levels? I am hyper and my thyroid is enlarged, and I also have some enlarged nodes like I am fighting off something. NAK or I would say more!
~Angela~


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## *Jessica*

Update~I was tested and found to be hypothyroid. Whew! I was pretty sure that was what was wrong, but it's always scary having the symptoms I was having and not knowing for _sure_. I've been started on a low dose of generic Synthroid and go back in a few weeks to be retested and have my dose adjusted. But I am already feeling fabulous! I'm not 100%, but I'm certainly miles closer than I was just a couple of weeks ago. I just wish I hadn't kept putting off being tested until I got so sick.

If you think you're having thyoid problems........GET TESTED!


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## marie1080

Another hypo here. I had hashimotos with antibodies. My initial TSH was 249. Yup that's two hundred forty nine. I was really tired and really cold all the time. My thinking was also pretty foggy in the few months before I got a diagnosis- I felt like I couldn't focus on anything, which was really scary. I just thought my symptoms were because I was working nights, a lot of overtime, going to school during the day, and just plain worn out from it all. Synthroid has been like a little drop of heaven for me.

Does anyone here take Armour thyroid? I have read some of Mary Shomon's stuff on thyroid and she seems to be a big advocate of armour type replacements. I've felt quite good on generic synthroid (150 mcg right now- my last TSH was 0.57- yay!), so haven't really investigated any other treatment. I'd love to hear any experiences with with the more natural armour type products.


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## EBG

Could I be hypo?
I am always cold, especially feet, losing a ton of hair, and I have rage issues...
Is there anyone here who is trying to treat it without meds? Like special diet, supplements and sea salt?


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## Mooney

Another borderline case here, looking for herbal/nutritional thyroid support tips. Has anybody tried an herbal formula or individual herbs that have helped? I've often seen bladderwrack (a seaweed, for extra iodine), but most other herbs are aimed at specific symptoms rather than systemic support.

Also, those of you who adjusted your dosages during pregnancy, did you need more or less Synthroid pregnant? What about postpartum? Was it always a reduction after having a baby?


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## TanyaS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mooney*

Also, those of you who adjusted your dosages during pregnancy, did you need more or less Synthroid pregnant? What about postpartum? Was it always a reduction after having a baby?

I've had my dose stay the same and also need to be increased both during pregnancy and postpartum. I had different needs during each of my pregnancies. I made sure the OB office did a TSH panel during each trimester. And with my first, my endo insisted I come in and have him check it, too. After my first, I was able to rely on the OB tests and monitor it myself. This last pregnancy was the only time I needed to increase my dose. Thyroid meds should always be taken seperately from prenatal vitamins (and food) to maximize absorption.


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## babygrant

I've been doing some research and I'd like to know how many of you mama's with thyroid problems have had your tonsils taken out.


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## EBG

Quote:


Originally Posted by *babygrant*
I've been doing some research and I'd like to know how many of you mama's with thyroid problems have had your tonsils taken out.

Is there a connection?
I got mine taken out when I was 8. I'm not sure if I'm Hypo but I think so...
My mother still has them and she is definitely hypothyroid.


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## babygrant

Well apparently if you have no tonsils your thyroid takes over the job of your tonsils and your thyroid "forgets" how to do it's original purpose.


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## babygrant

So do those of you who are hypo have a problem with weight gain? I've gained 18 lbs in just over 2 months and it's getting depressing


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## TanyaS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *babygrant*
I've been doing some research and I'd like to know how many of you mama's with thyroid problems have had your tonsils taken out.

Mine were taken out at five years old.


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## kewb

I still have my tonsils. Hashimotos/Hypo thyroid runs in my family. It goes back 3 generations that I am aware of.


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## purplegirl

I still have my tonsils but struggle with a huge thyroid and am hypo


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## Mommabelle

How long did it take some of you to feel "better"? I'm hypo..diagnosed in Jan..was better but a little down again...Dr is testing hormone balances too. I am sick of this.


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## marie1080

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mooney*
Also, those of you who adjusted your dosages during pregnancy, did you need more or less Synthroid pregnant?

My pregnancy dose has increased from 100 to 112 to 150. I'm currently at 30 weeks and my last tsh at 27ish weeks was 0.57.

To the person that asked about tonsillectomy- mine were removed in early childhood. I have often wondered how that has affected my immune system.


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## AngelaB

Here is a good link to try!
http://www.ithyroid.com/
I am a little hyper with antibodies. Im not taking medication and just treating it with food and supps.
~Angela~


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## JaneS

My WAPF leader just recommended Stephen Langer's book on using dessicated thyroid supplements. Has anyone read this?

*Solved: The Riddle of Illness*
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...592631-6806458


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## utuss

I started suffering the effects of hyperthyroidism about 8 months or so after giving birth to my daughter. In hindsight, man, I should've known that excessive pooping, eating 80 meals a day, losing weight, high pulse rate, inability to sleep, wasn't normal! I've never had my tonsils removed, but my thyroid was also related to loss of pigment in parts of my skin (vitiligo) which is only currently being restored (gee, I'm sunning myself and probably getting skin cancer to help restore pigment in some of my vitiligo-ed areas). I don't have any history of it in my family....after getting diagnosed in May of 2005, I apparently had a very quick turn around and have been off meds since December of 2006. Most likely (but not positive) it has to do with the postpartum, but who knows? We'd like to get pregnant again, and I think I know what to recognize if my thyroid flares up again, but dang, its a scary scary thing!


----------



## sraplayas

Hi All. I am hypo, and after some recent tests, my ND is supsecting autimmunue--Hashimoto? I have read quite a bit on thyroid but it would be helpful to hear from a "lay person" the difference between hypo and hypo with Hashi.

Thank you!


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## cloak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *babygrant*
So do those of you who are hypo have a problem with weight gain?

So far I haven't had issues with weight gain.


----------



## cloak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sraplayas*
...it would be helpful to hear from a "lay person" the difference between hypo and hypo with Hashi.

Hypo is just an underactive thryoid. Hypo with Hashi is where your body is actually attacking the thyroid and you'll have thyroid antibodies in your blood.


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## Celtain

subbing, just too damned depressed to write out the whole story right now.


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## Celtain

OMG, I killed the thread!!!


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## AmandaGRB

subbing


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## MrsBone

I am hypothyroid, and I've been on Armour thyroid medication for 10 years now. Armour is a natural form of thyroid extract taken from a pig's thyroid. If anyone is concerned about using synthetic thyroid medications, I would ask your doctor about Armour. Before being diagnosed with it I felt like I had fibromyalgia. Every joint in my body ached, I was very tired all the time, and just felt run down. Now that I'm taking Armour, I feel so much better!!


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## lotusbeans

....


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## staceyshoe

Has anyone here tried bio-identical thyroid hormone? I'm on Armour now but would like to switch and don't want to take a synthetic hormone. If you've taken a compounded formula, I'd love to hear about your experience!


----------



## lotusbeans

....


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## chlobo

I haven't been diagnosed. My GP thought my symptoms were just from becoming a mother. But I had a m/c 6 months ago & haven't been able to get pregnant again and I'm tired all the time & have definite rage issues. So I think I'm going to go in and get tested.


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## staceyshoe

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lotusbeans* 
I've heard other people say they don't want to take a synthetic hormone - why not?

ALL synthetic hormones have side effects and are not as effective as your body's own hormone. Every major prescription hormone is chemically different from what your body makes (otherwise it can't be patented and there's no $ in it for the companies that manufacture it). I've heard some things about long term use of synthetic thyroid hormone being linked to liver problems.


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## chlobo

Well wouldn't the Armour Thyroid also be considered "different" from human thyroid since it comes from pigs? Is it better because it's at least from a living, breathing mammal rather than a test tube?


----------



## lotusbeans

****


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## dallaschildren

Definately interested in this thread. Thank you for starting it. Hypothyroidic here for around 10 years. Had tonsils taken out when I was little too. My Dad has it. Don't know much about a hereditary link. The weight gain, dry skin, hair loss, and lack of energy have all been symptoms I have battled on and off with for a long time. My dosages are changed usually every three months. I noticed when I was on Levoxyl, my symptoms increased and when I went back on Synthroid, I was a lot better. I believe it is because generics do not have the same quality control on dosing per pill that a namebrand does. I have researched it a bit and like many other drugs out there, no matter what the doctors or pharmicists say, there IS a big difference between a generic and namebrand drug. I have found for me, one of the keys to maintaining a consistent "normal" feeling, I take Synthroid at the exact same time every day. I have dabbled and researched with alternative remedies but so far no luck with any combo I've tried. So I always end up going back to the drugs. Depressing.

DC


----------



## cloak

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dallaschildren* 
I noticed when I was on Levoxyl, my symptoms increased and when I went back on Synthroid, I was a lot better. I believe it is because generics do not have the same quality control on dosing per pill that a namebrand does.

Just FYI, Levoxyl is not a generic. It's a different name brand drug. I switched to Levoxyl from Synthroid because Synthroid has lactose in it and I'm lactose intolerant. It's probably not enough to bother me but I figure if you're going to be on a drug for life you might as well have it be lactose free. It's hard for me to tell if I feel better/worse on the Levoxyl since I'm still a bit wacked out from being postpartum.


----------



## chandasz

I'm hypo and have been for many years. I was taking synthroid and now I'm taking the generic.

I've had no side reactions to the synthetic that I'm aware of.

I am still nursing DD #1 at 2 1/2 and am 32 weeks prego with #2.

I've had a LOT of trouble getting dosages settled. I seem to be stable when I'm pregnant but AFTER- my dosages went up like 4x! We'll see what happens this time.

I had no issues with getting pregnant. No problem at all and no BFing issues. I also pumped when I went back to work.

My cousin is hyperthyroid is facing either surgery or radioactive removal of her thyroid (too bad we can't share). She ended up having MAJOR issues with BFing due to the thyroid problems. Her milk just never came in. She tried EVERYTHING. Hopefully, by the time she's ready for #2- she'll have the hyperthyroidism taken care of. She was diagnosed once she became pregnant...


----------



## dallaschildren

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cloak* 
Just FYI, Levoxyl is not a generic. It's a different name brand drug. I switched to Levoxyl from Synthroid because Synthroid has lactose in it and I'm lactose intolerant. It's probably not enough to bother me but I figure if you're going to be on a drug for life you might as well have it be lactose free. It's hard for me to tell if I feel better/worse on the Levoxyl since I'm still a bit wacked out from being postpartum.

Oh. I was under the impression Levoxyl was the generic of Synthroid. Hmmm. So what is the generic name of Synthroid then?







:

Aha! The names are pretty similar and that is maybe why I am confused???? The generic for BOTH levoxyl and synthroid is Levothyroxine.
http://thyroid.about.com/b/a/094626.htm Another screw up by my physician. Figures.


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## sraplayas

My ND suspects that my body has developed an immunity to the pig tissues in the Armour, and is going to try Thyrolar next. Has anyone heard of this happening? She is trying to lower my antibodies. I am still symptomatic, so it is a little frustrating...


----------



## muldey

Hi everyone.I thought I posted on this thread before but I guess didn't.I have Hashi's hypothyroidism.I was diagnosed with hypo about 18 months ago,and just recently diagnosed with Hashi's.I'm on 75mcg of levothyroxine,and I still feel horrible.Headaches,chest pain(I had tests to rule out heart problems),all over aches,depressed,and so exhausted.I just started on antideppressants to see if that helps my mood at all.My TSH is around 1.7.I just had an ultrasound on my thyroid today.Does anyone know what they may suggest if they find it's enlarged?I'm just sick of feeling this way.I don't know what to do.TIA.


----------



## lotusbeans




----------



## sophiekat

bumping to join and sub








i'm hypo, have been for 12-ish years now, not currently on meds but will probably be back on synthroid in the near future. i didn't know that rage was a symptom, but that could explain why i've been so snippy with dd lately







:


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## CyndyRR327

My hyperthyroid was discovered when my first ds was 9months. The endo thought it was pp tyroid condition, but then I got pg just a few months after that and it went away during that pg. Then when ds2 was born it came back. One yr pp after ds2 he decided it was Graves and not going away







: . I cant think of what I take right now, but I do have my tonsils, but I have been diabetic for 10yrs if that makes a difference (endo says it does).

My ques is to those who have done the iodine thing. My endo wants me to do it, but last time he brought it up I was still nursing so I said no way. What is the advantage to it? doesn't it make you hypo? If I become hypo will I gain a bunch of weight?


----------



## lotusbeans




----------



## calicocj

just wanted to say hi, it has been helpful to read yalls experiences... I had no clue that I was hypo, just thought that being really tired and grumpy was part of having a baby!! Then I got diagnosed (endo said PP thyroiditis) when DD was 4 mo, w/ TSH over 200 and T3 and T4 almost 0, so now on synthroid... and feel 500% better.

CyndyRR327, I don't know anything about iodine test, but I don't think you necessarily gain weight if you're hypo, although that is a common symptom... I had a normal weight when I got diagnosed, although I have lost some since starting the meds.


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *purplegirl* 
I still have my tonsils but struggle with a huge thyroid and am hypo









What does it mean, to have a "huge thyroid"?


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## purplegirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
What does it mean, to have a "huge thyroid"?

I had my thyroid removed two weeks ago. The doctor said it weighed one pound. So I'd say that's pretty huge!


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## rachelgirl

1 lb? wow! that is huge...







:


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## Metasequoia

What I mean is, how do you tell? Can you tell by feeling your neck/throat? What is your neck/throat *supposed* to feel like?


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## mommy_e

Hypo here... for 7-8 years. Diagnosed at a routine physical shortly after my older sister was diagnosed with a goiter. Mainly was seeing my family practitioner, then the reproductive endo (for atypical PCOS), then the OB once I was pregnant and back to the family prac. So, in all that whirlwind of switching providers I was going through many dose changes/thyroid swings. I finally asked for a referral to an endocrinologist and he has been wonderful!

The biggest change was telling me to make up missed doses. With two kids under three I was missing 1-2 pills per week. The family doc said just skip them if you don't remember until the next day. He said take the missed doses as soon as you realize they were missed - up to three at a time. Also he was much more open to keeping me at the low end of normal for TSH. Family doc said as long as it is in the lab's normal range you are fine (TSH up to 5!)

I do still feel like crap, but I have a 3 yo, nursing an 18 mo and pregnant, so I suppose I can't expect to feel all wonderful







Also have been running kind of hyper lately (TSH <0.2) which they want for pregnancy, but it interferes with sleep, so am I tired from the kids, the pregnancy or just not sleeping well??

Anyway, to add on to a few of the earlier comments. The endo says to use Sythroid, Levoxyl or Levothroid ONLY and stick with one of them. The problem with the generics isn't so much that they are bad, but that you need to stay on the same brand. Once you say generic is OK, you may get generic company A the first time then generic company B the next and so on and that can really mess things up.

I still have my tonsils and so does my sister, so I'm not sure of a connection there.


----------



## purplegirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
What I mean is, how do you tell? Can you tell by feeling your neck/throat? What is your neck/throat *supposed* to feel like?

I could totally see the bulge in my neck. It was very obvious however, my doc could palpate it to see that it had grown to a ridiculous length and width. I am glad to have it gone. I couldn't breathe right and food often got stuck in my throat. I am committed to synthroid (100mcg) for the rest of my life though


----------



## calicocj

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy_e* 
Anyway, to add on to a few of the earlier comments. The endo says to use Sythroid, Levoxyl or Levothroid ONLY and stick with one of them. The problem with the generics isn't so much that they are bad, but that you need to stay on the same brand. Once you say generic is OK, you may get generic company A the first time then generic company B the next and so on and that can really mess things up.

A pharmacist friend told me the same thing - she said it is important to stick with whatever brand you were titrated on because there are subtle differences among brands and generics that make a difference in your body's response to the meds. She also told me if you're switching brands, to get levels checked more frequently at first, and they may have to be titrated to a slightly different level...


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## amyhulen

Glad I found this thread. I had hashimotos for about 15 years before I was diagnosed. I was labeled as suffering severe depression for that entire 15 year stint. Then about 2 years before I was finally dianosed I gained 75 pounds in about 18 months. I was put on Synthoid and 6 weeks later I was pregnant. Yeah. But I found the synthroid to be an incomplete medication for me (still suffering from depression and SEVERE anxiety) and switched doctors so I could be prescribed the Armour. What a world of difference. I feel like a real human again. I no longer suffer from all the mental issues I did before and I have finally begun to loose weight. It has been 4 long years. I am currently on the hunt to find a doctor who will treat my anitbodies, I am hoping that will clear up the rest of my symptoms. I still suffer from hair loss, infertility, cold hands and feet as welll as the rage issues that so many of you talk about. I was so happy to find out why I freak out on my hubby and kids all the time. Even our poor dog runs when I get like that. Has anybody found any information on calming the thyroid antibodies, I just started taking 200 mg of Selenium daily because that is supposed to help.


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## chlobo

Can you tell me about the antibody issue? I haven't heard of that yet.

Also, what is the best thyroid test to get. I have an appt next week and want to ask the doctor for the right test.


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## cloak

Hmm...I've never heard of calming the antibodies either. I'll have to research that.

Chlobo, when I get my levels checked they do Free T3, Free T4, and TSH. They also checked for antibodies at one time but since that test was positive they don't need to do it anymore.


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## chlobo

Ok. Just wanted to check. I just had bloodwork from a fertility clinic and they *only * checked TSH. Wanted to make the sure the regular doctor does a good test.


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## eleanorm

Another mother with hypothyroid issues. I was diagnosed 7 years ago after suffering from extreme exhaustion and despression. There was no significant weight gain (except a little puffiness/water retention around the face) but it was the first thing I checked before things became too severe as most of the women in my family have it.

My maternal grandmother suffered for most of her life and was only diagnosed shortly before her death (partly caused by the long-term damage done to her internal organs). When it was suggested as a possible condition to her doctor it was excluded because my grandmother was a very slight woman. Doctors don't seem to be be able to look further than this very common symptom. The same happened to my (very slim) mother, but after 15 years, when her mother died, she was also diagnosed. The upside to this is that I and my sister both were diagnosed and treated very quickly. In all instances there seemed to be a traumatic event that triggered the disease in each of us - usually pregnancy/childbirth, but in my case purchasing my first house and living out of a box for a few months in stressful conditions.

Since '99 I was taking 100mcg of a synthetic thyroxine medicine per day with great success - quick recovery and loss of symptoms and no side effects. Then, for no apparant reason, my levels dropped 2.5 years ago and I was prescribed 125 mcg per day. Without thinking too much I took it and stabilised the situation - and then became pregnant with DS. It didn't feel safe to me to be changing anything while I was carrying him, or when I was breastfeeding him as a young infant. So I stayed as I was.

Then when he was about 6 months old a test showed that my levels had dropped again and the doctor wanted to increase me to 150 mcg a day. This time I said STOP. I immediately went to see a homeopath (first time in my life) who gave me a remedy (which I don't now remember). A couple of months later my levels had so improved that I could drop back down to 100 mcg a day!! It has been stable there for the past year. Hemeopathy rocks and I fully intend going back for further 'work' to try and get off the meds completely. However, as we are TTC I may put it off for a while.....


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## spiralmg

Also glad to find this thread. I am starting to think that my thyroid has been responsible for more of my problems than I ever thought. We'll see how far I get on this post; may have to come back and add more later...nak

About 17 years ago I was diagnosed with hyperthyroidism. More accurately, I diagnosed myself; the family doctor wanted to simply put me on Prozac. However, I noticed that a goiter was forming and demanded that she test me. My father had been diagnosed a few years prior and I recognized the way the goiter looked.

Prior to the goiter forming, I had been having a lot of problems that didn't seem related. I had an eating disorder (bulimia) for a few years, felt "crazy" a lot of the time, like just not right, you know? Just before I was diagnosed, my heart felt like it was racing a lot. I was having a lot of problems in my relationship too, so it was hard to separate what was what.

After diagnosis, I was treated with radioactive iodine almost immediately. So fast, I felt like I hardly had time to think. It would have been interesting to explore other options...but whatever, what's done is certainly done. I have been on Synthroid almost ever since - but switched to Armour recently (more below).

Right after starting Synthroid treament, I traveled for a year abroad and as it turns out my levels were not correct. My hair fell out and my eyes bulged and I continued to "not feel quite right." After I came back, they adjusted my levels to .15 where I have stayed ever since.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dallaschildren* 
I noticed when I was on Levoxyl, my symptoms increased and when I went back on Synthroid, I was a lot better.

I also tried the Generic equivalent for awhile and did poorly on it, so I went back to Synthroid. As long as I took my pills everyday, I felt pretty good.

Taking my pill every day is a BIG issue for me. I'm a big forgetful anyway, but with a 3 year old and baby it has been really hard. Heck, just being pregnant with a 3 year old, it was hard. In fact, my thyroid levels were so poor during my pregnancy that I gypped myself out of a homebirth. The homebirth midwife said she didn't feel safe doing it because of my thryoid levels which indicated an increased chance of hemorraging. As it turned out everything was fine but what a bummer.

After DD was born, my homeopath MD really wanted to get me on Armour as she thought the T3-T4 combo would be much better for me, to help me be more even. If I take my pills everyday of course...









After DD was born, I also had a lot of problems with irritability, rage and overtiredness. I kept attributing it to just regular post-partum - I.e. this must be what it feels like to have two children.... - but I really think it was my low thyroid levels. Since I have switched this seems to have improved.

I am curious what if any relationship there is between having an eating disorder and thyroid disease - like maybe it sparked something that may not have happened until later? Or is there some sort of environmental component? Thyroid issues run in my family - Paternally, my grandmother, two female cousins and father all had Graves/hyperthyroidism. Actually, my grandmother was diagnosed as hypo, but I suspect she had hyper for years and years and years (thinking about her behavior) and just burned her thyroid out finally. My mother was recently diagnosed as hypo and is taking hormone as well.

I wonder what I can do for my children to help them avoid this problem if they are susceptible.


----------



## beanma

those of y'all who are having trouble remembering to take your meds, i'll tell you my secret method which usually seems to work. i try to put my toothbrush on a shelf in our bathroom behind my meds so i have to sorta go through my meds to get to my toothbrush. then i don't brush my teeth in the morning until i've taken my meds. (works at night, too, if you prefer to take them then.) i used to not only forget to take my pills, but also would remember later on, "my pills! did i take them or not?" and i just couldn't remember if i had taken them or not. now, with the toothbrush method, the clean teeth serve as a reminder that i did remember or the dirty teeth remind me to go and do it.

hth!

p.s. i'd be interested in hearing more about calming the antibodies, too.

oh, and anybody else with vitiligo out there?


----------



## cloak

My pills are by my toothbrush too.


----------



## grahamsmom98

I just started on Thyrostim (Biotics Research) for treatment of hyperthyroid.

My doctor ordered hormone & thyroid testing due to symptoms I have been having: very low libido, dry skin and brittle nails, hair loss, fatigue, weight gain, cold intolerance + almost constant hot flashes (that's weird!), among others. My hormone tests all came back normal (apparently it's the thyroid and not menopause) .

The TSH, Free T3 & Free T4 tests came back as follows:

TSH: <0.01
Free T3: 5.0
Free T4: 2.0

So, my test results say Hyperthyroidism. But, my symptoms just don't jive with what we have been reading as relating to Hyper. I do NOT have a high libido (I wish!), rapid heart rate, weight loss, eye problems, or moist skin.

They all relate to Hypothyroidism instead from what I have been checking on google(!).

I am very confused about this (the tests say hyPER but many of my symptoms say hyPO). My doctor suggested I start on this supplement called Thyrostim (Biotics Research) to, hopefully, kick-start my body and test again in two months, rather than going on more serious medications (as I am not having serious problems such as heart palpatations, etc). If, in two months, the tests are the same and so are my symptoms, he said we can discuss what our next approach should be.

I love this doctor and his philosophy on the practice of medicine and trust his opinion.

I'll take the Thyrostim and see what happens. I'm just curious if anyone else takes it.


----------



## kewb

I keep my pills by my toothbrush, too. Although, I have been taking that little pill for so long now it is a reflex to grab the pill bottle as soon as I get to the sink.


----------



## babygrant

Hey everyone!

I went off the synthroid last friday as per my doctors suggestion to see what my body does. So far I feel okay. Stepped on the scale today and I've gained another 4 lbs. I'm up over 20 lbs weight gain in 4 months now. It sucks









I found this awesome website if anyone is interested:
http://www.drdebe.com/RevivingYourThyroid.htm


----------



## beachbuminthecity

Quote:


Originally Posted by *grahamsmom98* 
I just started on Thyrostim (Biotics Research) for treatment of hyperthyroid.

My doctor ordered hormone & thyroid testing due to symptoms I have been having: very low libido, dry skin and brittle nails, hair loss, fatigue, weight gain, cold intolerance + almost constant hot flashes (that's weird!), among others. My hormone tests all came back normal (apparently it's the thyroid and not menopause) .

The TSH, Free T3 & Free T4 tests came back as follows:

TSH: <0.01
Free T3: 5.0
Free T4: 2.0

So, my test results say Hyperthyroidism. But, my symptoms just don't jive with what we have been reading as relating to Hyper. I do NOT have a high libido (I wish!), rapid heart rate, weight loss, eye problems, or moist skin.

They all relate to Hypothyroidism instead from what I have been checking on google(!).

I am very confused about this (the tests say hyPER but many of my symptoms say hyPO). My doctor suggested I start on this supplement called Thyrostim (Biotics Research) to, hopefully, kick-start my body and test again in two months, rather than going on more serious medications (as I am not having serious problems such as heart palpatations, etc). If, in two months, the tests are the same and so are my symptoms, he said we can discuss what our next approach should be.

I love this doctor and his philosophy on the practice of medicine and trust his opinion.

I'll take the Thyrostim and see what happens. I'm just curious if anyone else takes it.

Hey all,

I have hypothyroidism for 21years now, I was 21years old. I missed my period and thought I was preg., well I don't have any kids and 42 yrs. I had a goiter. The doctor couldn't understand that I didn't notice my throat getting bigger (nope) and my voice sounded deeper (had a deep voice normally), but after she pointed out everything then I noticed it all. Hair falling out, depression (all those other symptoms are more now then then). I was put on synthyroid and through out the years on the other popular one that start with L (spllg?), but synthroid 100mcg most of the time.and on that same dose until now. When on the others I noticed more of a hyper effect so I would skip some doses(like everyother day) My reading this month was:

TSH .45
T3 free 2.3 Low
T4 free 1.88 High

I asked to be put on armour which my mom suggested (yes she is hypo too), so next refill will be armour, I am kind of excited cause I hear it helps better because it has both t4 and t3. Oh, I still have my tonsils and I think my mom has them too. She was put on meds when she kept having miscarrages.

I am not sure about the antibody thing is but mine where postive, but I compared it to my March reading which was 280 (high) to now 80 still high but came down. Doctor wanted me to go to a rhuemotolgiest(spllg?),but decided to handle it myself by changing my diet and seeing a big improvement. I think all this is related to adrenal glands, diet, hormones, and gut/PROBIOTICS are extremely important. I had a rash around my mouth, eyes, hands, and vag. yeast infection, face swelling around mouth and eyes. This all became worst after 3-4 rounds of antibiotics within least than a year for 2 tooth infections. That is when the rash came and that is when I had the antibody test which was 280 and now down to 80 but still high, but came down. I will kept you all informed on my progress and what I change etc.. I believe all this is from overgrowth candida.

These where and some come and go my symptoms:
Thin hair/hair falling out--no more
weight gain--up and down--could be cause it is winter--not much activity
rash---this is new since the antibiotics
muscle aches--more lately and constant
headach--sometimes--mostly migaines
lack of concentration--most of the time/lately
memory loss
crave sweets alot and eat alot
tired--alot
lack of motivation--I want to do things,but just can't
cold hands and feet mostly feet--all the time
libdo--ok most of the time

Ok here is some interesting info--read the whole thing--over come your symptoms (lack of concentration) and read it





















It talks about synthyroid and armour meds

*Optimum Diagnosis and Treatment of Hypothyroidism With Free T3 and Free T4 Levels*

Diagnosis of Hypothyroidism
The big myth that persists regarding thyroid diagnosis is that an elevated TSH level is always required before a diagnosis of hypothyroidism can be made. Normally, the pituitary gland will secrete TSH in response to a low thyroid hormone level. Thus an elevated TSH level would typically suggest an underactive thyroid.

The traditional tests of thyroid function, the T4 (or total T4), T3-uptake, FTI, 'T7', total T3, and T3-by-RIA tests should be abandoned because they are unreliable as gauges of thyroid function. The most common traditional way to diagnose hypothyroidism is with a TSH that is elevated beyond the normal reference range. For most labs, this is about 4.0 to 4.5. This is thought to reflect the pituitary's sensing of inadequate thyroid hormone levels in the blood which would be consistent with hypothyroidism. There is no question that this will diagnose hypothyroidism, but it is far too insensitive a measure, and the vast majority of patients who have hypothyroidism will be missed.

The clinical symptoms of hypothyroidism are many. Perhaps the most common is fatigue. The skin can become dry, cold, rough and scaly. The hair becomes coarse, brittle and grows slowly or may fall out excessively. There is a sensitivity to cold with feelings of being chilly in rooms of normal temperature. It is difficult for a person to sweat and their perspiration may be decreased or even absent even during heavy exercise and hot weather. Constipation that is resistant to magnesium supplementation and other mild laxatives is also another common symptom. Difficulty in losing weight despite rigid adherence to a low grain diet seems to be a common finding especially in women. Depression and muscle weakness are other common symptoms.

Most patients continue to have classic hypothyroid symptoms because excessive reliance is placed on the TSH. This test is a highly accurate measure of TSH but not of the height of thyroid hormone levels.

The basic problem that traditional medicine has with diagnosing hypothyroidism is the so called "normal range" of TSH is far too high: Many patients with TSH's of greater than 1.5 (not 4.5) have classic symptoms and signs of hypothyroidism.

The alternative to monitor thyroid disease is to use the Free T3 and Free T4 and TSH levels and interpret them with new reference ranges. If one measures the Free T3 and Free T4 levels the only accurate measure of the actual active thyroid hormone levels in the blood, as well as the TSH, one will find out how often a low normal TSH does NOT exclude hypothyroidism. It is relatively common to find the Free T4 and Free T3 hormone levels below normal when TSH is in its normal range, even in the low end of its normal range. When patients with these lab values are treated, one typically finds tremendous improvement in the patient, and a reduction of the classic hypothyroid symptoms.

There are a significant number of individuals who have a TSH below 1.5 but their Free T3 (and possibly the Free T4 as well) will be below normal. These are cases of secondary or tertiary hypothyroidism, so, TSH alone is not an accurate test of all forms of hypothyroidism, only primary hypothyroidism.

This revised method of diagnosing and treating hypothyroidism seems superior to the temperature regulation method promoted by Broda Barnes and many natural medicine physicians.

Treatment of hypothyroidism
After proper diagnosis of hypothyroidism, the next issue is with what substance to treat.. The traditional approach is to use Synthroid/ Levoxyl/Levothroid (levothyroxine) which is only T4. Natural medicine doctors tend to use Armour thyroid which is a mixture of mono and di-iodothryonine and T3 and T4, the entire range of thyroid hormones.

If the Free T3 level is significantly lower than the Free T4 level, it is next to useless to treat with Synthroid/ Levoxyl/Levothroid (T4) only replacements. If the patient could not muster sufficient T3 from their gland (which produces some T3 directly), then they are certainly not going to convert enough T3 from T4 only. Traditional medicine assumes that preparations like Synthroid which are T4 only converts peripherally in the body to T3 in fairly standard amounts and at fairly standard rates. Unfortunately, clinical experience shows this is not true for the majority of patients. Consistent measuring of both free T3 and free T4 blood levels in hypothyroid patients who are on T4 only therapy will very rapidly dispel this myth. A certain percentage of hypothyroid patients do convert enough T4 to T3 at a sufficient rate for T4 treatment to be adequate as a source of T3; but a substantial proportion of patients require some combination of both exogenous T3 and T4.

Once on hormone replacement, the TSH remains useful until it goes BELOW 0.4. Then one has optimized thyroid function by the TSH yardstick; it then remains to optimize thyroid function by the yardstick of the accurate measures of the 2 thyroid hormones, the Free T4 and Free T3 levels.

So one should use a combination of T4 and T3 which compensates for the inability to convert T4 to T3. This is most frequently done with Armour thyroid. However, Cytomel, which is T3 only, can be used in combination with one of the T4 only preparations. It is important to recognize that T3 should always be prescribed twice daily due to its shorter half life. This is typically after breakfast AND supper for compliance reasons.

Taking the dose at these times overcomes traditional medicine's major objection and resistance to using natural thyroid preparations - its variability in its blood levels. Armour thyroid is desiccated thyroid and has both T3 and T4. Most doctors using Armour thyroid are not aware that Armour thyroid should be used twice daily and NOT once a day. The major reason is that the T3 component has such a short half life and needs to be taken twice daily to achieve consistent blood levels.

Once or twice daily dosing one can then optimize both the T4 and T3 levels, with whatever thyroid preparation is required. This is not possible in most hypothyroid patients with T4 only preparations. It is important to use a preparation with T3 because T3 does 90% of the work of the thyroid in the body. The only exception to pursue optimization of the T3 level without using Armour thyroid is in severe acute cardio-pulmonary conditions, when the metabolic slowing effect of a low FT3 level can actually be life-saving. However, the vast majority of hypothyroid patients do not have acute cardio-pulmonary conditions, such as congestive heart failure.

The most common starting dose for patients with hypothyroidism is Armour thyroid, 90 mg which is cut in half with a razor blade and half is taken after breakfast and the other half after dinner. Taking it after meals also helps to reduce volatility of the blood-level of T3. If the patient has any problem breaking or cutting the pill, they should purchase a pill-cutter at the pharmacy. The TSH, Free T3 and Free T4 are then repeated in one month and the dose is adjusted.

In order to optimize the hormone replacement, the Free T3 and Free T4 should be above the median but below the upper end of the laboratory normal reference range. The goal for healthy young adults would be to have numbers close to the upper part of the range, and for cardiace and/or elderly patients, the numbers should be in the middle of its range. The Free T3 and Free T4 levels should be checked every month and the hormone therapy readjusted until the FT3 and FT4 levels are in the therapeutic range described. A small number of large, overweight, thyroid-resistant women may need 6-8 grains of Armour Thyroid or the equivalent of thyroxine per day (counting 0.1mg of T4 as 1 grain of Armour Thyroid).

If the patient is currently taking Synthroid (thyroxine), their Free T4 level is usually at or above the high end of its normal range and the Free T3 level is below. In this situation, or if a patient is allergic to Armour thyroid or is resistant to taking Armour thyroid, one may then add 5-12.5 mcg Cytomel (pure-T3) after breakfast and supper daily, rather than Armour Thyroid or Thyrolar (synthetic T4/T3 combo). It is important to remember that if the FT4 is being raised by a still-high TSH, the FT4 level will drop some when the TSH drops when adequate T3 is added to the hormone replacement.

Patients need to be warned about the overdosage symptoms which are frequently only temporary during the adaptation stage. The symptoms may include: palpitations, nervousness, feeling hot and sweaty, rapid weight-loss, fine tremor, and clammy skin. There is one exception to the 1.5 level of TSH as the cutoff for treatment. Overweight patients who have classic symptoms of hypothyroidism and have made heroic unsuccessful attempts to lose weight may benefit from thyroid hormone replacement even if their TSH slightly below 1.5 and FT4 and FT3 are not below their normal ranges

Patients who are already on once daily Armour thyroid should split their doses immediately and take half after breakfast and half after dinner. Since the only change will be in the FT3 level, which has a short half-life, the serum FT4 and FT3 levels (and TSH, if indicated) can be measured 48-72 hrs after the splitting of the doses if the patient had been on the hormone for 4-6 weeks before the splitting of the doses. This is because the T4 fraction is the one that takes a number of weeks to build up to its steady-state serum level.

Here is the link where I got the info from:

http://www.mercola.com/article/hypot...nosis_comp.htm

I will let you know how the armour works for me too, and anyone who does take it just in with opinions.


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## tanyalynn

Does anyone have experience with the suggestions on ithyroid.com? Either positive or negative.

The hypothesis put forth by John, the guy who created the site, is based on his personal experiences and his research into the relationship between nutrition and thyroid function. He thinks that mineral deficiencies, either lack of intake or inability to use the minerals that are there, eventually starves the thyroid of the raw materials it needs (my paraphrasing). And that short-term vitamin/mineral supplements (lots of supplements, he has a rather detailed list) can restore those deficiencies and improve thyroid function. There's a lot of information, specific suggestions and tons of research cited, but it's still basically a do-it-yourself process. As symptoms changes, vitamin and mineral supplements need to be adjusted and he doesn't discuss long-term sustainability but it seems clear that that needs to be evaluated on an individual basis to figure out how to prevent the specific deficiencies that developed in the first place.

Anyone have any experience with this, or anything like it?


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## MamaTessa

I just found out that I am hypo, and will be starting treatment in the next few weeks. I have been dealing with the symptoms for years, but always had the TSH test, which came back normal. This time, I got TSH plus free T3 and free T4. I also had my cortisol levels checked (indicates adrenal function). I have adrenal fatigue, so I will also be treating that. I am going to start taking hydrocortisone for the adrenal fatigue and taking armour for my thyroid.

I ordered my own labs because I couldn't get a doc to listen to me. I have learned a LOT from http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com. From what I have read on this site, there are a LOT of people out there that have thyroid problems that aren't treated because of the TSH test.

I am really hopeful that the treatment will help me, I have been diagnosed as bipolar II but I now think that my symptoms are actually due to the thyroid, not actually bipolar.


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## tanyalynn

Post #95 anyone (now that we're all back from the holidays, at least physically if not mentally)? Thoughts?


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## dachshundqueen

I thought I'd join. I'm hypothyroid. On levothyroxin 50mcg.

My research is pointing towards the elimination of specific foods: cabbage, peaches, raddishes, soybeans, peanuts, spinach and rutabegas which can interfere with thyroid hormone production. Sad as I am a big fan of all the above with the exception of soy.

Otherwise I am probably just going to start a low dose iodine supplement in addition to my prenatal, 150 mg B6, and occaisonal EPO/flax oil.

ETA: I've also seen bladderwrack recommended, no dosage though, but as it is expressly forbidden for nursing/pregnant mothers it's out.

Lizi


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## mommyshine

I went hypothyroid after both of my pregnancies. Reg Dr wnated me to take Synthroid. I saw an alternative Dr (with an MD) and corrected my thyroid with supplements both times. TSH after first pregnancy was 9ish - got back to normal levels and then after second pregnancy my TSH was 14 on Oct 2nd of this year. I had it tested again on Nov 30 and it was 3.5. Just two months later. (T3 and T4 levels normal range too.) I had my blood draw again yesterday. I took fish oil (to reduce inflamation) and zinc, iodine and selenium. I also gave up breast feeding but don't think I really had to. I actually resumed breasfeeding my 9 month old daughter since I had only "weaned" her before Thanksgiving and had such a good test result on the 30th. I lost most of my lactation - I nurse her twice a day and think she gets some milk although I am still feeding her bottles of abm after nursing.

Did anyone read about this in the news in late 2006:

44 Million Women at Risk of Thyroid Deficiency From Rocket Fuel Chemical
Federal Study Confirms Perchlorate as
Widespread Public Health Threat

Although regulators have known for years that the rocket fuel chemical perchlorate contaminates hundreds of drinking water supplies across the country, new scientific evidence clearly shows that perchlorate is a much greater public health threat than previously realized. Tests of almost 3,000 human urine and breast milk samples - along with tests of more than 1,000 fruit, vegetable, cow's milk, beer, and wine samples - reveal that perchlorate exposure in the population is pervasive. And a startling new Centers for Disease Control study (CDC), released today, shows that perchlorate exposure is related to reduced thyroid hormone levels in women, particularly those with lower iodide intake. An Environmental Working Group (EWG) analysis shows that 44 million women are at particular risk to perchlorate-related health effects.


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## cmp03

I have been on synthroid for 11 yrs. Probably shortly before getting pregnant I noticed that I started to have hypo-symptoms again but ended up getting pregnant. While pregnant I felt great. All my hypo-symptoms went away. My daughter was born in June and things have gone downhill since then. I actually had my strengh of medicine lowered based on blood results but physically feeling worse. Wasn't sure if it was pp hormones, lack of sleep, etc. Well its been 6 months and things havn't gotten better. I went to the DR and my levels were still in the normal range (although slightly higher then they were when I was pg).

I was prescribed Armour to give that a shot and see how it works.

If you were on synthroid (or evq) and switched to Armour, did you see immediate results? I have a follow up in a month and just wondered if I would physically feel a difference that quickly (if things were going to improve).

Thanks for any help.


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## staceyshoe

Cmp03, I have always taken Armour so may not be the best person to answer your question. I do have a few thoughts that I'll go ahead and post. Armour has both T4 and T3 as opposed to Synthroid which only has T4. Some people need both, so it might be worth trying to see whether your symptoms improve.

What were your "normal range" numbers? The diagnostic criteria for hypothyroidism changed a few yrs ago but this is very seldom practiced. Here are a few links:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...ay/ai_73959313
http://www.mercola.com/2001/jan/28/thyroid_disease.htm

Is it possible you may have a progesterone deficiency? This can cause hypothyroid symptoms even when you have enough thyroid hormone in your body:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...ay/ai_73959313
http://www.mercola.com/2001/jan/28/thyroid_disease.htm

Just some ideas. Hope you find some answers soon!


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## beachbuminthecity

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Does anyone have experience with the suggestions on ithyroid.com? Either positive or negative.

The hypothesis put forth by John, the guy who created the site, is based on his personal experiences and his research into the relationship between nutrition and thyroid function. He thinks that mineral deficiencies, either lack of intake or inability to use the minerals that are there, eventually starves the thyroid of the raw materials it needs (my paraphrasing). And that short-term vitamin/mineral supplements (lots of supplements, he has a rather detailed list) can restore those deficiencies and improve thyroid function. There's a lot of information, specific suggestions and tons of research cited, but it's still basically a do-it-yourself process. As symptoms changes, vitamin and mineral supplements need to be adjusted and he doesn't discuss long-term sustainability but it seems clear that that needs to be evaluated on an individual basis to figure out how to prevent the specific deficiencies that developed in the first place.

Anyone have any experience with this, or anything like it?

Well I have had hypothyroidism for 21 years now and changed my diet. Adding sea salt help alot. Some of you may want to look into adrenal fatigue. I am going to start a liver cleanse cause I believe that is extremely important I will post a link about liver congestion.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dachshundqueen* 
I thought I'd join. I'm hypothyroid. On levothyroxin 50mcg.

My research is pointing towards the elimination of specific foods: cabbage, peaches, raddishes, soybeans, peanuts, spinach and rutabegas which can interfere with thyroid hormone production. Sad as I am a big fan of all the above with the exception of soy.

Otherwise I am probably just going to start a low dose iodine supplement in addition to my prenatal, 150 mg B6, and occaisonal EPO/flax oil.

ETA: I've also seen bladderwrack recommended, no dosage though, but as it is expressly forbidden for nursing/pregnant mothers it's out.

Lizi

As for the veggies, I have read that if they are cooked then they should be ok. I would just cook them and don't as much of them. IMO, stay away from the soy and maybe flax oil. Do some research.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmp03* 
I have been on synthroid for 11 yrs. Probably shortly before getting pregnant I noticed that I started to have hypo-symptoms again but ended up getting pregnant. While pregnant I felt great. All my hypo-symptoms went away. My daughter was born in June and things have gone downhill since then. I actually had my strengh of medicine lowered based on blood results but physically feeling worse. Wasn't sure if it was pp hormones, lack of sleep, etc. Well its been 6 months and things havn't gotten better. I went to the DR and my levels were still in the normal range (although slightly higher then they were when I was pg).

I was prescribed Armour to give that a shot and see how it works.

If you were on synthroid (or evq) and switched to Armour, did you see immediate results? I have a follow up in a month and just wondered if I would physically feel a difference that quickly (if things were going to improve).

Thanks for any help.

I was on synthyroid 100 mcg for a while and ask to be put on Armour about a month ago. He started me on 90 mg. I cut them in half and took half in the morning and the other half around 5/6 at night after a meal. If I forget to take it in the morning I would just take the whole pill around noon, but the first week I only took half a pill each day cause the first day I took a whole pill and had such a rush in my body it scared me. But after that week I was fine and felt much better. I still want to do a liver cleanse, cause I feel that is where I could see a change.

Here is that link:
http://www.jonbarron.org/newsletter_...49105069751392

Here is more info on the liver:

Excess body hair is due to excess progesterone. This hapepns when the liver is unable to filter out and metabolize estrogen and progesterone at the rate it's supposed too, because the body has to have a very specific balance/ratio between estrogen and progesterone. If progesterone rises at all, estrogen will too, in order to maintain that ratio. And vice versa. So stop the Evening primrose oil. You're probably okay with Udo's choice however.

This is one example of how important the liver is for everything in our body.

Estrogen dominance is caused by a myriad of factors, so to manage it you must take a holistic, systemic approach.

First factor is the liver. The liver is responsible for breaking down estrogen and progesterone and taking it out of the bloodstream. This is low on the list of things for it to do, tho, so when it gets clogges, this gets neglected. Signs of this neglect can manifest in various ways, including increased PMS symptoms and even varicose veins, spider veins, hemrrhoids. So comprehensive liver cleansing is in order.

Estrogen dominance is also a "sugar disease," one of the side-effects of a diet that's too high in sugar for you to handle. It means you've exceeded your personal sugar threshold. So a non-sugar diet like the candida diet is highly recommended for about 1-3 months so you can recover fully and get your insulin and everything back into shape.

Liver congestion and sugar overdose means extra storage of fats, and those fats can contain the estrogen the liver isn't cleansing, as the body will use fats as the dumping ground for excess estrogen. That is evidenced by disproportionate weight gain around the hips and thighs.

Nutritional deficiencies/toxicity that contribute are:

Mangenese. Mangenese helps the liver break down estrogen. Without it, it can't do its job.
Iron.
Bioflavanoids - plant chemicals which help the body utilize vitamin C. A lack of bioflavanoids and Vitamin C means estrogen dominance.
Zinc/potassium imbalance
copper toxicity

Some people think it is advisable to avoid foods that are high in phytoestrogens, but no one can agree - some people say that these plant estrogens are friendlier than our own estrogen. Still, during a cleanse or while trying to regulate estrogen until your liver is clean, I recommend avoiding these foods:

Soy (avoid all forms of soy, even the fermented kind which at other times is okay.)
Millet
Barley
Flax seed.
Kidney beans.
Lima beans.
Rye.
Clover.
Raspberry tea
Evening primrose oil
licorice
garbanzo beans

Many forms of pesticides mimic estrogen in the body, and it is stored in fat tissues, nervous cell tissues, and even the brain, so it's hard to detox. The detox bath and liver/bowel/lymph cleansing helps with this. If you live in an apartment complex or work in a restaurant that sprays for roaches you really should detox bath regularly.

It is also important to increase circulation so the estrogen doesn't deposit somewhere, or get stuck to the veins and cause varicose veins - exercise, massage, the Cleansing Drink, will help with this, as will blood thinners like fish oil and blood purifiers like burdock root.

http://www.askshelley.com/forum/view...light=estrogen

I hope that helps.


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## Celtain

I have Hashimoto's and I have been off my meds for about 6 or 8 months now. I'm tired just the same as I always was. But I have gained about 20 pounds, which in my case, is awesome. I was down in the mid 80's while on my meds and now I'm over 100 for the first time in 2 years. It is pretty cool to not look like the bride of Skelator anymore!!!!

Did anyone else have rapid weightloss with synthroid?


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## tanyalynn

Mommyshine, I have questions! I have questions! Picture me almost bouncing up and down on the couch with excitement.









Not to overwhelm you with questions, but... How did you find an alternative doc who would treat this nutritionally? What type of doctor? I don't have one and so I was planning a do-it-yourself approach in addition to the endocrinologist I just started seeing. Although your statement that there are professionals out there who do this made me realize that my chiro may know someone, he's pretty alternative but I don't know how plugged into the other alternative healthcare folks in town he is. I am due to see him anyway, so I'll ask next week. Regarding the endocrinologist (who seems really nice and good-intentioned), normally, I would tell a doc everything I think is relevant to the situation at hand, but this approach is totally counter to everything in their training, so I really don't think they will a) take it seriously, and b) know anything helpful.

How long did it take for you to start feeling better? How did you decide you were "done" or are you still taking supplements? Was it just test results, just how you felt, a combination? And how long did you take supplements? Did you get any good advice on long-term dietary changes? I was sort of bummed when you said it recurred after your next pregnancy, I had sort of hoped that I could "fix" this (yeah, that's the really optimistic part of me, the pessimistic part saw me on drugs for the rest of my life, after a long struggle to find a doc that knew anything about Armour because my mom is on a Synthroid-type generic and hasn't felt good despite lots of trying to adjust her dosage) and that would be it, plus significant dietary changes that I already knew I needed.

Unless this is getting too personal (though if everything above hasn't already, then I doubt anything can!), how did your alternative doc decide on zinc, selenium and iodine? My reading, still pretty basic, says those are oftentimes key minerals involved in hypo so that made me feel upbeat, but I was wondering if your doc specifically tested for them, or it was based on your symptoms, or this is the standard first way to treat (but then maybe if the response wasn't good, a few changes would be made)?

Sorry for all these questions, but this has been a big thing in my life lately. My TSH just got bad enough to get a referral to an endo (based on it changing, since my regular doctor's office doesn't seem to be aware of the new normal TSH range 0.3 - 3.0 so they won't treat me) so I may get a prescription soon, but around the same timeperiod, I read specifics about the possibility of treating this nutritionally. And since I've known for a while now that my diet is pathetic, this seems to be a sign that I need to get on the ball and make some real changes.

Thanks! I'm glad this approach worked for you and I'm grateful that you've shared some of your experiences for the benefit of others.







:


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## cmp03

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Celtain* 
I have Hashimoto's and I have been off my meds for about 6 or 8 months now. I'm tired just the same as I always was. But I have gained about 20 pounds, which in my case, is awesome. I was down in the mid 80's while on my meds and now I'm over 100 for the first time in 2 years. It is pretty cool to not look like the bride of Skelator anymore!!!!

Did anyone else have rapid weightloss with synthroid?

Celtain - When I first went on Synthroid I lost a lot of weight quickly. I was in 11th grade when I was first diagnosed. I had gained about 30-40 lbs in a few months (this is while I was playing Hs sports w/3 hours prectices everyday). I had to have a bunch of test ran and it was at the begining of my Senior year when I was put on meds. Withing 3 months I had lost that 40lbs. I think I even lost more then that (it was just so long ago).

I think my body almost went into a shock b/c of the sudden increase of hormone but it eventually stabled out.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *staceyshoe* 

What were your "normal range" numbers? The diagnostic criteria for hypothyroidism changed a few yrs ago but this is very seldom practiced.

Is it possible you may have a progesterone deficiency? This can cause hypothyroid symptoms even when you have enough thyroid hormone in your body:
!

Stacey - My levels were like 1.1 this past time they were checked. Throught my pregnancy they were at .9X but right after the baby was born they dropped to .4X (putting me into the hyper level, which also led to my DR prescribing me to a lower dosage of the synthroid). My levels are low enough that I do not necessarily think that I need a stonger dosage.

The main reason he switched me to the Armour was b/c of the T3 part.

I am going to give the Armour a shot. He also ordered some blood test to see how everything else is. If I don't feel better he is going to help me try to figure out some other things to try.


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## its_our_family

This thread has so much info that I'm drowning









I am having my thyroid checked on Thursday. I found the following list of symptoms:

*Fatigue
*Weakness
*Weight gain or increased difficulty losing weight
*Coarse, dry hair
Dry, rough pale skin
*Hair loss
*Cold intolerance (can't tolerate the cold like those around you)
*Muscle cramps and frequent muscle aches
*Constipation
*Depression
*Irritability
*Memory loss
*Abnormal menstrual cycles
*Brittle nails

I've also gained 7 pounds in 2 weeks and 60 pounds in a year.

So, I thought it would be best to get checked. Is it possible to have these issues and it not be hypo??

What should I ask my doctor? What should I request? Should I wait till I get the test reults back before I requet anything??

HELP!


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## MamaTessa

Quote:


Originally Posted by *its_our_family* 
This thread has so much info that I'm drowning









I am having my thyroid checked on Thursday. I found the following list of symptoms:

*Fatigue
*Weakness
*Weight gain or increased difficulty losing weight
*Coarse, dry hair
Dry, rough pale skin
*Hair loss
*Cold intolerance (can't tolerate the cold like those around you)
*Muscle cramps and frequent muscle aches
*Constipation
*Depression
*Irritability
*Memory loss
*Abnormal menstrual cycles
*Brittle nails

I've also gained 7 pounds in 2 weeks and 60 pounds in a year.

So, I thought it would be best to get checked. Is it possible to have these issues and it not be hypo??

What should I ask my doctor? What should I request? Should I wait till I get the test reults back before I requet anything??

HELP!









I would make sure your doctor runs a free T3 and free T4 when he does labs for you. Most doctors only test the TSH, which is not a very reliable test.

Before you go to the doctor, visit Stop The Thyroid Madness. I would recommend at least reading everything under "Are you Hypothyroid?" and "mistakes patients make" and "Recommended Labwork" before you see your doc.

I have had MANY hypothyroid symptoms for over 10 years, and was always told that my thyroid was fine, because the doctors only checked my TSH. I recently ordered my own labwork, and found that I am hypothyroid and have adrenal fatigue.

There is a pretty active forum on their site which gives a lot of additional information. I have started treating my adrenals and will be following up with thyroid medication starting in about two weeks.

Hope the info on this site will help you


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## GruppieGirl

I have been diagnosed with Hasimoto's thyroiditis and a very large multi-nodular goiter.

My blood tests have *ALWAYS* been normal. Has anyone else found that there blood tests are normal, but they have thyroid symptoms.

My most annoying symptom is weight gain. Take this past week for example. I joined the Y. Each day I did 27 minutes on the eliptical machine with my heart rate at the maximum. And then followed with 30 minutes of light-weight circut training. I *GAINED 3 pounds*! WTF!!!

Here are my other "weird" symptoms
*always hot
*tired
*mood swings
*always in the bathroom with liquid #2
*low temperature readings

I have yet to find an endo who takes my wight gain seriously. My first endo recomended that I see a nutritionist. She told me that I eat better than she does and she coundn't help me. Any advice on the wieght thing would be greatly appreciated!

My next most annoying symptom is the goiter. My neck is really think and I can't wear most necklaces.

In two weeks I am going for an untrasound assisted fine needle bioplsy. My third in just over three years. I have two large cysts the are both liquid and solid, so they want to keep an eye on them.


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## Metasequoia

Can you be hypothyroid & lose weight rather than gain? I have trouble keeping my weight on after babies & this time I have been having some severe muscle pain. I had my thyroid tested (not properly) & it was fine - why did I bother typing that? Would I be hyperthyroid?

My symptoms are:

Weight loss
Muscle pain
Occasional joint pain
Visual disturbances (floaters)
Increased anxiety

I am not tired even though Ds nurses 5-6 times during the night but have a bit of a brain fog (mommy brain?) I don't recall having had this the last two times.


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## tanyalynn

I've read it's possible to lose weight rather than gain. Take a look at some of the info on ithyroid.com--there's a lot of stuff about minerals and how deficiencies of various minerals cause different combinations of hypothyroid symptoms--so some people gain tons, others don't, some get goiters, others don't. If you go to the list of nutrients and click on one, scrolling to the bottom of the page (I think all the pages, certainly most) have abstracts of various studies that have been carried out looking at nutrition and thyroid problems.

ETA: Not that I know a ton about this. I'm at the beginning of my research and alternating between having fun learning new stuff and feeling desperate that I'm never gonna feel better.


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## its_our_family

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaTessa* 
I would make sure your doctor runs a free T3 and free T4 when he does labs for you. Most doctors only test the TSH, which is not a very reliable test.

Before you go to the doctor, visit Stop The Thyroid Madness. I would recommend at least reading everything under "Are you Hypothyroid?" and "mistakes patients make" and "Recommended Labwork" before you see your doc.









Ok, I read the list. I have been experiencing one thing that I thought was related to my weight but maybe not. If I sit for 5 or 10 minutes, or at my desk at work, I can barely walk because of the intense pain in the soles of my feet. We are talking to the point of not wanting to walk.

The other thing is itching on the inside of the ear. Mine itch all. the. time. I didn't think anything about it. I've always got qtips shoved my my ears scratching!

My biggest fear is that I'm going to go in and everything is going to turn out normal and then I'll be back to just thinking I'm hopelessly doomed.







:


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## mommyshine

"How did you find an alternative doc who would treat this nutritionally?" I think I Googled "Alternative Medicine Atlanta"

"What type of doctor?" She is an MD who had a life changing experience, studied and now practices Integrative medicine.

"How long did it take for you to start feeling better?" I don't remember how long it took with my son (2004) but with my daughter (2006) not long at all. How I knew something was wrong was that I just couldn't get off the couch - how I knew I was "getting better" I found myself standing at the kitchen sink after dinner loading the dish washer and realized i hadn't done this simple household chore in a loooong time. My DH had been taking care of practically everything.

"How did you decide you were "done" or are you still taking supplements?" Still taking them but cut my iodine in half every other day - have follow up apt tomorrow.

"How long did you take supplements?" I stopped when i ran out after my daughter was born and think that could be why I had a re-occurance. The first time I got diagnosed with Hypothyroidism ( a physical after my first birth) my Dr said it is very common after pregnancy. My Dr was actually on vacation and her partner gave me the physical and then called to get a pharmacy number to call in Synthroid. Once I found out you take it for the rest of your life I did a little research. When my doctor got back from vacation she called me and urged me to start taking Synthroid. Two against one. I figured I was out of balance and needed to get back in balance and since my life wasn't in imminent danger I put off taking Synthroid and as luck would have it have never had to.

"Did you get any good advice on long-term dietary changes?" Just to avoid or reduce inflamatory foods (dairy, sugar, etc.) I am still learning about dietary changes. I now eat brazil nuts every day instead of taking Selenium supplements. And fish oil to reduce inflamation.

"I was sort of bummed when you said it recurred after your next pregnancy" Could have actually been my fault. I get my supplements from my Dr and her office isn't conveniently located. I ran out. Felt fine so just took my prenatal. I think since my TSH dropped so much in less than two months that had i not stopped taking them I may not have had a reoccurence. Or maybe it would have since my original doctor said it is common after pregnancy - occurs around 6 to 8 months post partum is what she said. (My daughter born in March - TSH 14 on October 2nd... Sounds about right.)

"I had sort of hoped that I could "fix" this" You may be able to and an optimist attitude will take you very far. Besides dietary changes my alternative Dr reccomends medical meditation which really puts your mind in controll of your body. I don't do it often even though I should but I believe that your mind and thoughts have a large effect on your health. In fact, the day I was told I had the "disorder" I visuallized as many things with engines starting up - I wanted to start up my sluggish thyroid... I'd touch my neck and think of ripping a lawn mower cord RRRRrrrrrmmmmm... I also thought of a butterfly on a leaf resting and suddenly waking and fluttering about. You get the idea.

"Unless this is getting too personal (though if everything above hasn't already, then I doubt anything can!), how did your alternative doc decide on zinc, selenium and iodine?" Her training - those are the nutrients the thyroid needs to function. You should look for a doctor who studied at Arizona State University in the Integrative medicine program. I found a Dr in Michigan for my mom to consult with because she takes heart medications and supplements. Google "alternative" and/or Integrative" medicine and your location. Also note she uses Armor (sp?) and we discussed my taking it in October when my numbers were so bad. I keep mentiong TSH but she looks at all the numbers (Free T3,T4, even estridol because estrogen opposes thyroid I think). At any rate, I considered it when I had a supper stressful, angry, sad, exhausted day, but my ins covered it only through mail order and so I never did take it. I am glad for the other posts about it containing both T4 and T3 and about cutting it in half - good information out here.

"Sorry for all these questions" Don't be silly. I am so excited that I have managed this with diet and supplements I want others to know that it could work for them too. There are conditions that require medication but there are some that do not. My Alternative Dr said that this is one of the easiest things to treat and she gets women off synthetic hormones all the time. I had a quick turn around this time and hope to keep getting my number down and find out tomorrow what another month has done for me.

"Thanks!" You are very welcome - Good Luck (to everyone)

Note: I may have mentioned this in a previous post - I gave up nursing my DS after 8 months to get myself back in "balance" in 2004. Did the same thing second time around with my daughter although I don't think I had to. Since my TSH came down so quickly and I had only gone a few weeks since last nursing her I started up again. I am still lactating and feel good that she gets some breast milk although not for every feeding. It is a process to learn about how to take care of ourselves and our children. I was my alt Dr's patient and not my children. She wasn't familiar with the consequences of nursing while taking xy and z so I stopped.... But as I said, I don't think I had to.


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## MamaTessa

Quote:


Originally Posted by *its_our_family* 
Ok, I read the list. I have been experiencing one thing that I thought was related to my weight but maybe not. If I sit for 5 or 10 minutes, or at my desk at work, I can barely walk because of the intense pain in the soles of my feet. We are talking to the point of not wanting to walk.

The other thing is itching on the inside of the ear. Mine itch all. the. time. I didn't think anything about it. I've always got qtips shoved my my ears scratching!

My biggest fear is that I'm going to go in and everything is going to turn out normal and then I'll be back to just thinking I'm hopelessly doomed.







:

My ears itch all the time too. I thought it was normal! With all the symptoms you have, I would be very surprised if your tests come back normal if you have the doc do all the recommended tests. I do want to warn you that it's pretty hard to find a doc that will treat by any labs but the TSH, so you might have to look around a bit. I have ended up treating myself, the docs I tried didn't want to treat with anything but TSH, and didn't believe in adrenal fatigue.


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## its_our_family

I had some prelim tests run years ago when I was newly pg with T and a naturopath told me that I had a "malfunctioning" thyroid but I pretty much forgot about it etc (ppd doe that to you) and it wasn't until I started talk to Benjamin about it in the last week that we remembered.

How long does it take to get the results back??


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## Mommabelle

I've followed this thread for awhile. I'm taking 90mg Armour and 1 iodine capsule (don't have it in front of me right now so don't know the amount). I've been doing great for many months and then the last couple of weeks I've felt tired and it hit me this morning that it could be my thyroid. Do any of you take a higher dose of Armour? My dh was recently diagnosed with hypo too...I am on alert for my kids now...especially down the road when they hit puberty. It's been a year since I found out I was hypo. I also take adrenal support supplements. Great thread!


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## tanyalynn

Megan, the basic bloodwork is pretty quick, a few days. If your doc looks for thyroid antibodies, that takes longer, about a week and a half, but still not bad.


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## purplegirl

I just had some blood work done and in a matter of hours the lab was calling my doc. It seems that my levels are totally out of control and my TSH is 18. I am very hypo and the 100mcg of synthroid doesn't seem to be cutting it. I was scheduled to have an unrelated surgery next Tuesday so that got cancelled until my levels are better







I will see my doc tomorrow to see what she is going to do about my synthroid but right now I feel down right miserable. Does anyone else get extremely irritable when your levels are off?


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## living_organic

Quote:


Originally Posted by *purplegirl* 
Does anyone else get extremely irritable when your levels are off?


I do!!!! But I am on armour and it is so much better than Synthetic meds. I'll never go back !

You ladies might want to check out a group I'm on...

[email protected]

Lots of helpful info!


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## erkuhlmann

Hi everyone,

This is my first post here. I was just recently diagnosed in the early stages of medullary thyroid cancer. I will have to have a total thyroidectomy, and a neck dissection to remove some lymph nodes. I am still nursing my 16 month old, and would like to continue to do so after my surgery. Is there anyone here who has/had a total thyroidectomy and continued to nurse afterwards? I am hoping to work with my surgeon to find medications and anesthesia that are safe for breastfeeding. I do have a copy of Dr. Hale's book, Medications and Mother's Milk, and that has helped me out. I would be interested in hearing about anyone else's experiences with this. Thanks!


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## its_our_family

My visit went really well. She asked why I was there and why I thought it was my thyroid. I went over about 4 things and she stopped me and said she needed to more convincing. I told her I had a list and she asked to see it and added it to my file. They are running about 10 blood test. SHe is checking my blood sugar, for anemia, and testing just about every hormone.

I told her about the weight gain, facial hair, tiredness, and acne.

So, it went well.

She also agreed that with everything I have going on that something is definetely amiss and that she will find out what it is.


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## A&A

I'm hypo. I felt awful on Synthroid and I feel much better on Levoxyl.


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## RainCoastMama

.


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## its_our_family

Could my thyroid really be making my ass drag the ground??

I find myself nodding off at work at my desk. It is really weird how it hit about me 2 weeks ago.


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## MissAnnThrope

I only seem to have Thyroid problems when I'm knocked up. My first time around with dd I would always black out and was alway sick, and could not do anything! And no one ever tested my levels. With DS I was dealing with the same thing, but this time I was trembling uncontrollably, and after having to call out of work todays in a row on the weekend cause I could hardly keep my self together I talked myself into going to the er. My blood pressure and pulse was through the roof. (I was going into a thyroid storm and was lucky to get to the hospital that day.) They took me back and put me on an IV and said I was dehidrated (from throwing everything I ate or drank up). They ran some test and it came back I was hyperthyroid. I was put on PTU for my pg and afterwards I stopped taking it cause I did not want it in my bm. Then 6 months after having ds I had my levels checked again and the were fine. I guess I'm lucky on that part but I'm wanting to try for another, but I'm afraid of dealing with the thyroid thing again but I guess this time would not be going into it with out being prepared.


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## Nithin Baby

Ok so i have hyper Th. so and i am nursing my son. Gosh i am so worried to take meds and bfeedingf. Does any one know if its safe ?(any meds)


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## RainCoastMama

.


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## beanma

Nithin Baby said she's HYPER, though, not HYPO. That's a whole different set of meds. I really don't know anything about them, but you might like to browse www.thyroid.about.com . they have a lot of info there.


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## Nithin Baby

Thanks Mamas, i am very scared about this for my son while he is not eating any sloids at all and so i am very conserned. I will check out the web site.thx


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## mommyshine

Everyone says Thyroid Meds are safe - where are the long term studies? Same for antidepresants while pregnant. Where are the long term studies that follow the health of children exposed in utero once they reach adulthood? Does anyone know of a resource for this?


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## tanyalynn

Nithin, I don't have any personal experience myself, but while researching hypothyroidism, I ran across a site that discusses both, written by a guy who became hyperthyroid and decided to find a way to treat it himself. The basic idea is mineral/vitamin supplements. The site is ithyroid.com and it has a lot of hyper- info. The stuff I read on his site seemed sound for hypo- but again, I don't know diddly-squat about hyper, but I wanted to post the link because there's so much more info in this thread and in general about hypo. Good luck!


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## faerierose

Hi, I just found this thread. I was diagnosed w/ graves in 02 and treated with radio active iodine in the summer of 05. Now I'm hypo, and taking synthriod. It's nice to see I'm not alone in all this


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## staceyshoe

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommyshine* 
Everyone says Thyroid Meds are safe - where are the long term studies? Same for antidepresants while pregnant. Where are the long term studies that follow the health of children exposed in utero once they reach adulthood? Does anyone know of a resource for this?

I don't know about studies indicating the safety of thyroid meds during pregnancy specifically. There is A LOT of research about the risks of untreated hypo while preg (increased risk of m/c even into the 2nd trimester, neurological defects, mental retardation, etc). Without adequate maternal thyroid hormone, the baby's brain cannot develop normally.


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## faerierose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *staceyshoe* 
I don't know about studies indicating the safety of thyroid meds during pregnancy specifically. There is A LOT of research about the risks of untreated hypo while preg (increased risk of m/c even into the 2nd trimester, neurological defects, mental retardation, etc). Without adequate maternal thyroid hormone, the baby's brain cannot develop normally.

Very true, I was hypo when I concieved ds#3 in Jan. of 06 and I had to see the endo every 4 weeks throughout the pregnancy to make sure my levels didn't drop to low. He had to increase my dose almost every month, now 4 months pp we are lowering it again...maybe someday my meds will stay the same for more then 2 months, then poor dh can have a break from these mood swings


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## melaniel

Thank you for all the wonderful information. I am currently waiting on results from an u/s for an enlarged thyroid.
I am upset regarding the SOY info from the stopthetyroidmadness site. I admit, I am a soy junkie....
Of course, my dr only ran the TSH (=2.1) and I feel like it was a useless test.
Keep posting!


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## zane

I have hashimoto's thyroiditis. Have been going round and round trying to get proper treatment for several years. Finally found a WONDERFUL holistic md who is willing to use Armor and treat my symptoms not my test results. So far no miracles have occured but its only week 2. Have read it can take weeks, even months for proper treatment to make you feel better.


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## Barb36

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nithin Baby* 
Ok so i have hyper Th. so and i am nursing my son. Gosh i am so worried to take meds and bfeedingf. Does any one know if its safe ?(any meds)

Same for me and I'm stressed to the limit about it. My TSH (i think that's what it is) came back <0.1. That freaked me out. I am exhausted but my baby (9 months) nurses all night long so I figured that was the cause. My hair has fallen out quite a bit, but I don't have too many other symptoms.

I'm so worried about medicating it because it seems like the meds for hyper may not be safe for bf'ing...and I just can't stop bf'ing my son...we're both addicted. Seriously, he would be traumatized if I had to stop and I nursed my first for 2 1/2 years and expected to do the same or more for this one.

Is anyone treating hyperT and bf'ing??

I'm one freaked out mama right now....


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## its_our_family

I got some blood work done:

TSH: 1.22
Glucose: 95 (2.5 hours after a mini reese cup but otherwise no food)

They did a testosterone level check:

Testosterone, Female/Children 22
SHBG: under 24 (I have no idea what this is)
Free Testosterone: 4.3

HELP!!!


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## zane

hyperthyroid and breastfeeding

Quote:

High thyroid levels (hyperthyroid)

Moms who are hyperthyroid have elevated thyroid hormone (usually T4) levels. Symptoms include weight loss (despite an increased appetite), nervousness, heart palpitations, insomnia, and a rapid pulse at rest.

Hyperthyroidism is not a contraindication for breastfeeding. Per Medications and Mothers' Milk (Hale 2002, p. 417-418, 423-424), only exceedingly low levels of thyroid hormones (both T4 and T3) transfer into breastmilk.

In animal studies, high thyroid levels interfered with milk let-down (Lawrence & Lawrence 1999, p. 522).
http://www.kellymom.com/health/thyro...ml#safetyhyper

Hyperthyroid meds:

Quote:

Anti-thyroid medications

* carbimazole (Neo-Mercazole)
* methimazole (Tapazole)
* propylthiouracil (PTU)

Info on selected anti-thyroid meds
Name of medication

AAP approved?*

Lactation Risk Category**
Notes
carbimazole (Neo-Mercazole) yes L3 (moderately safe) (1)
methimazole (Tapazole) yes L3 (moderately safe) (2)
propylthiouracil (PTU) yes L2 (safer) (3)
* Per the AAP Policy Statement The Transfer of Drugs and Other Chemicals Into Human Milk, revised September 2001.
** Per Medications' and Mothers' Milk by Thomas Hale, PhD (2002 edition).

(1) "Carbimazole is a prodrug of methimazole and is rapidly and completely converted to the active methimazole in the plasma." (Hale 2002, p. 112-113)

(2) Hale describes several studies that looked at infant thyroid function (185 mother-infant pairs in all) - all the infants had normal thyroid function after maternal treatment, even when the mother was taking higher doses. One large study (139 mother-infant pairs) observed mothers & babies for over 12 months. "The authors conclude conclusively that both PTU and methimazole can safely be administered during lactation. However, during the first few months of therapy, monitoring of infant thyroid functioning is recommended." Hale notes that "propylthiouracil may be a preferred choice in breastfeeding women." (Hale 2002, p. 465-466)

(3) "Only small amounts are secreted into breastmilk. Reports thus far suggest that levels absorbed by infant are too low to produce side effects... No changes in infant thyroid have been reported... PTU is the best of antithyroid medications for use in lactating mothers. Monitor infant thyroid function (T4, TSH) carefully during therapy." (Hale 2002, p. 603-604)
From http://www.kellymom.com/health/thyro...treatment.html

If Dr Hale says its OK then it really is OK.


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## Barb36

Thank you, Zane. You saved me tonight. I've been fitful about these test results and just knowing that bf'ing isn't going to have to be terminated is a HUGE relief.

Thank you thank you thank you!!!!!


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## zane

Barb - Go to the kellymom site. There is lots more info about hyper and bf. About the only thing that will STOP bf is the radioactive thryoid tests. Then you must stop for something like 50 days while the meds clear your system.

In general a good rule of thumb - if Dr tells you to wean, get a second opinion AND research the advice from both of them on the web. It is almost never neccessary and Drs are the worst source of accurate bf info.

From LLL site

Quote:

I may have an overactive thyroid; can I still breastfeed my baby?

An overactive thyroid gland, also referred to as hyperthyroidism or Graves' disease, is an important health concern. Thyroid disease is serious as the thyroid controls the body's metabolic processes. According to the LLLI BREASTFEEDING ANSWER BOOK (BAB), any breastfeeding mother with thyroid disease should be under the care of a doctor who is supportive of her desire to breastfeed.

Diagnosis of an overactive thyroid can usually be based on the mother's symptoms as well as a simple blood test. On occasion, radioactive testing is used to diagnose thyroid problems. If radioactive testing is recommended, the mother can ask her physician if the test could be postponed or another, non-radioactive test, be substituted.

If the radioactive test is used, temporary weaning is recommended. "The length of time the mother needs to suspend breastfeeding will depend on the type and dosage of radioactive materials used for the test" (BAB). Radioactivity of breastmilk declines over time, and frequent milk expression will help the mother eliminate the radioactivity from her body more quickly. This milk must be discarded and not fed to the baby. (Frequent milk expression will not hasten the elimination of other drugs from breastmilk.) For pumping information see LLLI FAQs about pumping.

Contact a La Leche League Leader for the most up-do-date information about the time period needed to sufficiently clear radioactivity from breastmilk.

Some medications for overactive thyroid are not concentrated in human milk and result in minimal doses to the breastfed baby If a mother is taking thyroid suppressants, she will need to tell her baby's doctor so the baby can be monitored for thyroid levels. Weaning is usually not necessary. If a doctor insists on weaning, the mother is encouraged to seek a second opinion before weaning. When temporary weaning is recommended, it is important to be sure the risks and benefits have been fully evaluated. If you have questions about the medications you are taking, contact a La Leche League Leader.

If radioactive compounds are used to treat an overactive thyroid, temporary weaning is necessary. The mother will need to pump and discard the milk during this time. Before a mother resumes breastfeeding, her milk must be checked for radioactivity. Your local LLL Leader will be able to share more information and offer support.
And if the really scientific makes you happy

Quote:

Breastfeeding in mothers with treated Graves' disease

The question of the safety of lactation during ATD therapy arises frequently 267. Historically, women receiving ATD have been advised against breastfeeding because of the fear that ATD, concentrated in milk, might affect the infant's thyroid function. Both PTU and MMI are secreted in human milk, although PTU less so because of its more extensive binding to albumin 281-284. In one study evaluating the effects of CMI (15 mg/d) or PTU (150 mg/d) on infants of nursing mothers, there was no evidence of neonatal hypothyroidism in the first weeks of life 285. In another study, serum MMI levels were measured in breastfed infants of thyrotoxic mothers receiving MMI (20-30 mg/d): two hours after MMI ingestion, serum MMI levels in the babies were extremely low, far below the therapeutic range 286. Thus, both with PTU and MMI, only limited quantities of these drugs are concentrated into milk. As long as the doses of MMI or PTU can be kept moderate (MMI <20 mg/d; PTU <250-300 mg/d), the risk for the infant is practically negligible and there is no evidence-based argument to advise mothers against nursing when they take ATD 248,267,287. It is prudent to monitor periodically the infant's thyroid function during the time of ATD administration to the mother, although a recent reassuring study showed that thyroid function in breastfed infants was not affected, even when ATD induced maternal hypothyroidism 288. There is also a possibility that allergic reactions associated with ATD (agranulocytosis or rash) may occur in the infant. While these side effects are rare, they should be kept in mind when evaluating a febrile infant or presence of rash. In summary, within the limitations outlined above, the use of ATD in lactating mothers does not pose a risk to the neonate and appears to be safe.
http://www.thyroidmanager.org/Chapter14/14-frame.htm


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## Barb36

Nithin Baby...did you get any further tests done? I had blood drawn to check T3 and T4 (I think those are the correct names) and we'll see what happens.

I've been reading and reading online and it seems as though postpartum hyperthyroid is not terribly uncommon. Often it seems to go untreated and then periodically checked to see if it resolves on its own...I suppose this is only if the symptoms are mild. I have very few symptoms and can't discern the fatigue from hyperthyroid or just being a mom of 2 and nursing all night long. I'm going to see an acupuncturist and see if that will help balance things out.

Thanks again, Zane. I took Paxil for PPD after my first was born and I struggled desperately with issues of safety and bf'ing...even though everyone told me it was safe. I had to go on it because I was a wreck and everything turned out fine....my now 4-year old shows no ill effects. I really had no choice in the matter and it wasn't advised to discontinue bf'ing.

Anyway, I'm finding myself in that same struggle of not wanting to take anything if I can avoid it...but I also don't want my current condition to impact him but it seems like that's not something to worry about.

OK, I'm just talking/writing through my thoughts because it helps. Thanks for listning/reading!!


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## JaneS

For anyone with mood issues, anger, depression, dark cloud feeling... I *highly* recommend reading Julia Ross' book "The Mood Cure". It is about using natural amino acid therapy to boost seratonin in the brain like nature intended, instead of artificially forcing what little you have to recycle with SSRIs.

She has a section on how thyroid function effects mood but I haven't read it yet, I'm sure it's excellent based on the rest of her info.


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## mommyshine

Thanks for the book title. I look forward to reading it.


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## mommyshine

Quote:


Originally Posted by *staceyshoe* 
I don't know about studies indicating the safety of thyroid meds during pregnancy specifically. There is A LOT of research about the risks of untreated hypo while preg (increased risk of m/c even into the 2nd trimester, neurological defects, mental retardation, etc). Without adequate maternal thyroid hormone, the baby's brain cannot develop normally.


I know about this - I requested testing monthly when pregnant with #2. My concern for this results from a personal experience. I took a low dose antidepressant for a while in my early 30's and had bizarre things happen in my brain when starting and stopping them and it just concerns me that children's brains could be exposed to this. My OB said no one has done any long term studies yet and I think people should know this. They probably ARE safe but I don't think anyone knows for sure yet. Before all the studies of suicide and antidepressants I was told by a Dr if I wanted to get well I had to take my medicine - after I told him had violent dreams. I did not go back to that Dr after he said that. Use your intuition and don't be affraid to question your doctors. Learn things - which we are all doing by being a part of this site.

Everyone must weight the risks on both sides - a sleepy and or depressed mother isn't good for a baby either. I think it is very important to try nutrition and exercise before resorting to medicines. If I had listened to my first and second doctor I'd be on Synthroid right now, for the rest of my life. Instead I spend a little more money on supplements (they cost more than an Rx) and have discovered ways to eliminate pollutants in my diet and environment. I am feeling wonderful, naturally, and I am still nursing... What worked for me may not work for everyone. I don't condemn anyone for taking medications. I offer myself as some one who, fortunately, did not have to take them - who went against the advice of two conventional doctors, who made me fear for my life if I didn't take my medicine. Also anyone who does take medicines, and has been told they have to for the rest of their life, may not. It is important to know this. When things were really bad I considered taking Armour temporarily.


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## tanyalynn

Hey mommyshine, I've been meaning to write again. I really appreciated you sharing your way of dealing with your hypo. I am still doing this on my own with the vitamins/minerals, but I am feeling a lot better--it's been a major turnaround, and the improvement was quicker than I expected. Sharing your experience helped me when I was feeling really tired out and wondering if this would actually work. My endo gave me a prescription for Synthroid, but I don't think I'm going to have to fill it.


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## Barb36

That is so great that you've been able to manage it naturally...that's what I would desperately like to do. I really don't feel that bad, however since getting the lab results back I'm feeling worse...a bit hypochondriacal, me thinks!

Wonderful, Tanya, that you're feeling better! I'm glad you're sticking with the supplements and nutritional changes...good for you!

I have an appt with an acupuncturist next week. Who knows, my second tests may come back normal in which case I think the TSH might have been wrong? I dunno...I'm trying to be patient and just wait and see but when it comes to concerns about bf'ing and the health of the baby, I tend to ruminate and worry like crazy. Doesn't help matters much.

I also think my estrogen levels are really low. Right after the baby, I had some other issues and when I went to see the midwife, she did an exam and said it was clear that I had very little estrogen in my system. She gave me an estrogen cream that sort of worked but really just time seemed to make matters better. I'm wondering if my TSH test might have also be affected by low estrogen levels or other hormones? I'm clearly very susceptible to postpartum hormonal swings since after baby #1 I had such a severe case of PPD...it was actually postpartum anxiety and it was so extreme that medications were a must. I had no time to investigate other things as I could barely hang on each minute. It was truly awful. But the meds worked terrifically for me and I think I was very lucky to have had such a positive response. I agree with the pp that not everyone responds that way at all. It's a terribly complicated thing. Fortunately, quite a lot of studies have been done on mamas taking Zoloft and Paxil and both transfer very little amounts to the breastmilk. The thyroid suppressing drugs, however, I know nothing about. It seems that LLL says some are safe, but I'm skeptical. And I don't want to mess with something that might just resolve on it's own or with a little help from an acupuncturist.

Oh dear, I'm rambling again. I'm quite fixated on all of this right now. I just want to enjoy my babies...this kind of threw me for a loop.

Thanks again for the time and patience....


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## formerluddite

stumbled on this thread, and it seemed like y'all might be the right people to ask about dh.

when he was 20, he had a pre-employment physical with a dr. who palpated his thyroid, said it was enlarged, took a needle biopsy and told dh to take pills to shut his thyroid down. he took them for a few weeks, then threw them out and ignored this issue for the next 25 years with no known ill effect (seems healthy), but he doesn't see dr's.

now he just had a bad bike accident, had head/spine CT's, and we were reading the results and they mention his left thyroid is calcified. any idea what that should mean for him?


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## faerierose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *formerluddite* 
stumbled on this thread, and it seemed like y'all might be the right people to ask about dh.

when he was 20, he had a pre-employment physical with a dr. who palpated his thyroid, said it was enlarged, took a needle biopsy and told dh to take pills to shut his thyroid down. he took them for a few weeks, then threw them out and ignored this issue for the next 25 years with no known ill effect (seems healthy), but he doesn't see dr's.

now he just had a bad bike accident, had head/spine CT's, and we were reading the results and they mention his left thyroid is calcified. any idea what that should mean for him?

I don't have any experience w/ this but the way I understand it is that a thyroid nodule (a growth on the gland) can calcify. I'm not to sure what you mean by his left thyroid as there is only one, is it to the left of his thyroid or on the left side of it? Sorry I'm not much help... I hope your dh recovers from the accident quickly.


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## formerluddite

Quote:


Originally Posted by *faerierose* 
I don't have any experience w/ this but the way I understand it is that a thyroid nodule (a growth on the gland) can calcify. I'm not to sure what you mean by his left thyroid as there is only one, is it to the left of his thyroid or on the left side of it? Sorry I'm not much help... I hope your dh recovers from the accident quickly.









thanks for the response! i'll quote the CT report: "calcification is noted within the left thyroid gland." my recollection of anatomy doesn't go too far about thyroid structure, and i'm too lazy to get out my grant's atlas,







probably just the way radiologists refer to the thyroid to be concise? since it's symmetrical? anyway, a nodule might be what that MD felt/biopsied 25 years ago, so if it's calcified is that something of concern? and was a nodule something to have gone on pills for? we'll see an ENT on monday, maybe we can ask then. dh will do as little medically for himself as he can get away with; he has great distrust of the medical profession (partly fueled by experiences like the thyroid incident). but he did let himself get strapped to a board until his neck was cleared, and let himself be stitched. and he is recovering, but he's pretty achey and tired now that the adrenaline has worn off. thanks for the


----------



## faerierose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *formerluddite* 
thanks for the response! i'll quote the CT report: "calcification is noted within the left thyroid gland." my recollection of anatomy doesn't go too far about thyroid structure, and i'm too lazy to get out my grant's atlas,







probably just the way radiologists refer to the thyroid to be concise? since it's symmetrical? anyway, a nodule might be what that MD felt/biopsied 25 years ago, so if it's calcified is that something of concern? and was a nodule something to have gone on pills for? we'll see an ENT on monday, maybe we can ask then. dh will do as little medically for himself as he can get away with; he has great distrust of the medical profession (partly fueled by experiences like the thyroid incident). but he did let himself get strapped to a board until his neck was cleared, and let himself be stitched. and he is recovering, but he's pretty achey and tired now that the adrenaline has worn off. thanks for the









The thyroid is shaped like a butterfly







I don't think there is a medication to treat nodules, I think a nodule can cause hyperthyroidism, in that case thyriod suppressent drugs might be used. I'm not too familiar with these types of thyriod problems but I would have it looked into if it were me, I do know some nodules can become cancer (I really hope that's not the case), and if it effects his thyriod levels it could cause many other types of health problems. Abnormal thyriod levels can cause mild annoying symptoms or be potentially life threateng.
I'm glad he is all stitched up and on his way to recovery







Sorry for any typo's, my 4 month old ds is on my lap squirming like crazy


----------



## formerluddite

Quote:


Originally Posted by *faerierose* 
I'm glad he is all stitched up and on his way to recovery







Sorry for any typo's, my 4 month old ds is on my lap squirming like crazy









thanks for the info. right now he's out in front kicking a ball around with the kids... i hope he saves some energy to stack the firewood we just had delivered, or i'll be parking on the street!


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## truelife

Hi Ladies! I am hoping someone on here will be able to help me out a little.

When I was 19 my health went down the toilet. I was diagnosed with PCOS and told I would never conceive on my own. I started to see a nutritionist when I was 20 and he got me on a very strict diet and vitamin regimen. I have had my thyroid tested and tested but nothing ever shows up abnormal.

Here is everything that is wrong with me:

- CONSTANTLY & NO energy - tired though I sleep 12 hours a night
- Low milk supply with 8-month-old
- Pale, ashy skin
- Facial hair








- Crazy, crazy periods though I show no signs of ovulation
- Constant temperature of 96.2-96.6 degrees
- Unexplained blood in stool








- ZERO sex drive (very unlike me)
- Extremely moody - almost bipolar
- Even while I'm not PP I can work out and eat perfectly and cannot lose weight (though I'm not really overweight either)

*Almost all of these symptoms go away while I am pregnant*

Doctors have excused it as PPD and being a new mommy. I *rarely* eat sugar or white anything....

My nutritionist swears it is my thyroid and gave me Raw Thyroid, All Adrenal, and Raw Pituitary to take for therapy. I am totally against prescriptions and want to know if any of you have tried this before going on prescriptions?

We don't have insurance but I have to get help - and fast! Any advice you have would be greatly appreciated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TIA!


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## Barb36

Truelife, I'm not sure what I'd do. Did you have your TSH test done? It sounds like you did. I would also have the T3 and T4 blood tests done as those are what really tell you if your body is producing too much or too little of the hormone. I'm very hesitant to take drugs like these as I am very concerned about messing with the endocrin (sp?) system if you don't know what's really going on.

Good luck...I'm sure someone else will have more information to share.


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## Barb36

I also wanted to share that I had my T3 and T4 tests done and they are perfectly normal. My TSH is low but my doctor said that the TSH just tells you what the pituitary gland is telling the thyroid. So in my case, the pituitary is telling the thyroid not to produce more because there is too much...but it is wrong! The T3 and T4 results show that my thyroid level is normal. So as she said, my thyroid is not listening to my pituitary which is a good thing.

I would encourage anyone who gets a wonky TSH result to go on and have the T3 and T4 tests done to see if there really is a thyroid imbalance. In my case there isn't and I would have probably messed myself up nicely had I started monkeying around with supplements.

Take care everyone!


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## sraplayas

I have been diagnosed with autoimmune hypothyroid and have been taking synthyroid for 3 months. However, my most recent labs show a TSH of 0.00 (with the optimal higher than 0.3) and the T3 a bit high, but the T4 was in range. Now, my GP says that she wants to have a study done to detect a nodule, which involves radiation (gamagrama? in spanish--I live in Mexico). The thing is, I have felt so much better since switching from Armour to Syntyroid and in spite of the labs I was beginning to feel like my self again! In fact, when they decreased the dosage I began to feel the hypothyroid symptoms cropping up again, so clearly my dosage is incorrect (I went back to my old dosage until new labs come back







) I also have 0.0 progesterone and ovarian cysts (you know, thyroid effects everything!) I am consulting with my Naturopathic Doctor in the States but would love any anecdotal input from my Mothering friends!


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## Barb36

I just wanted to say that the whole thing confuses me, too. I know other mamas will chime in with more wisdom on this subject than I have...just wanted to say that I empathize with your situation and hope that you get some answers soon.


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## kamesennin

Hello! How nice to have a thread about thyroids! I had some blood tests done and there is something off with my thyroid. I don't even know what a thyroid is!!! So I am going back in next week to see what is the matter. I'm sort of glad something is wrong because I haven't been able to lose weight and I just thought it was because I am lazy.


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## amys35

I'm hypo with Hashi and goiter. I just recently started Lenoxyl 88. Feel like crap!! Just made an appt with an ingtegrative doc hoping he'll put me on Armour.

But my question is how do you know when mood, rage, depression is from thyroid or really depression? I tried anti-depressants and couldn't tolerate the side effects. So far the meds are doing nothing. I'm really hoping the Armour and T3 might be my answer.


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## zane

Quote:

But my question is how do you know when mood, rage, depression is from thyroid or really depression?
If thyroid meds, at the right doses, don't help, then its not your thyroid!









I think the link is listed above but please visit www.stopthethyroidmaddness.com and the About.com section on thryoid issues. These should help you get an idea on how powerful the thryoid's influence on mood and mental health is.


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## JaneS

Doing tests for Wilson's Temperature Syndrome and they are coming up low:
www.wilsonstemperaturesyndrome.com

It's low thyroid symptoms but normal blood tests. The problem is at the cellular level, not the gland.

I think I will start on WTS Med supplements per our holistic dietician before trying pure T3.

Interesting that I feel better if I drink lots of raw milk. I was told that contains thyroid hormone... will check on that.


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## JaneS

Trulife,
Get thee to the above website!!


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## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *its_our_family* 
My visit went really well. She asked why I was there and why I thought it was my thyroid. I went over about 4 things and she stopped me and said she needed to more convincing. I told her I had a list and she asked to see it and added it to my file. They are running about 10 blood test. SHe is checking my blood sugar, for anemia, and testing just about every hormone.

I told her about the weight gain, facial hair, tiredness, and acne.

So, it went well.

She also agreed that with everything I have going on that something is definetely amiss and that she will find out what it is.

How were tests? Did you find anything out?


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## fibre_artist

OK, so I get that I'm trying to keep free T3 and free T4 in the upper third, and that TSH doesn't really count for much given the above. But I'm trying to figure out WHY - where is the breakdown? I'm on dessicated thyroid (Armour, but not by Armour), get my tests done in the morning without taking the morning dose, and my TSH doesn't seem to have anything to do with my free-T levels... In October, the free-Ts were in the midrange, and my TSH was 2.63, in January T3 was at the bottom, and T4 was below the baseline yet my TSH was 1.7 (I've upped my dose based on the free-Ts). Does this suggest the pituitary is having a problem? Because even with low levels of hormones, it's not pestering the thyroid to make any more (and yet it was asking more forcefully last time when the levels were higher...).

I've never had anti-thyroid antibodies, and I don't have my earliest tests, but I'm under the impression that I was sub-clinical or pretty close to it when we started this trip (ie my TSH has never been very high). Any ideas? Or does it make no difference anyway?


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## NocturnalDaze

The "Stop the Thyroid Madness" site has a very active forum http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com...nity/index.php

Anyone that has any questions can have them answered there. These people are so unbelievably helpful!

I've been diagnosed hypo for 10 years. I was on Levoxyl for years and Synthroid before that and nothing made me feel "right". I've been dealing with depression, foggy headedness and exhaustion for as long as I can remember. I was actually diagnosed as Bipolar II because I made the mistake of seeing a psychiatrist instead of a doctor first.

What I've found by getting my own saliva tests done is that my Adrenal Glands are shot as well. This happens to a lot of people who's thyroid has been treated incorrectly for years by doctors that don't know what they are doing. In my case this has been the reason for my foggyness and exhaustion. Thay say most people need 3-5 grains of Armour to feel well. If your adrenals are shot you can't raise your medication (preferably Armour) without starting to get hyperthyroid symptoms. As a result you never get enough thyroid meds in you. So, you _need_ to treat your Adrenals as well.

Good luck to everyone!!


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## guest^

Well, count me in too! I've just been told I have hypo.

While I had my hysterectomy about 1.5yrs ago, and am *only*41, my battle with trying to balance my hormones pretty much makes this a crappy mess to now add to the picture.

While I am truly grateful for all of your posts, I want to hear more!!





















:

For ex: many of you say that you've had to have your dosages adjusted,etc. but could some of you say whether or not your symptoms are better overall being on these meds?

Thanks!!

mp...definitely>>>>>







:


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## tug

hi, i am also hypo. diagnosed about 12 years ago and have been on synthroid and levoxyl since then.

i have a really silly question. does anybody have any suggestions for making your hair, including your eyebrows (you know, that loss of hair on the outer edge of the eyebrow thing), NOT look like a hypothyroid person? specifically, i am asking if anyone has a suggestion for increasing the hair growth generally (and therefore in my eyebrows) and for "beautifying" my otherwise strawlike, brittle hair.

it's funny. i am ok with the constant weight gain (well, sort of okay) because i feel like i can control that when i try really hard, but i just feel like i can't control those hair issues at all and they really annoy me. blech!


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## NocturnalDaze

The reason you are still having these symptoms is because you are not being treated properly. Check out this article: http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com...eds-dont-work/ You are probably feeling better than you used to but you are still not optimal. I would ask your doctor to put you on Armour if the doc won't do that I'd find someone who will.


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## tug

i see the doc this afternoon and will ask. i have some weird feelings about armour since it's real pig hormone (i'm a vegetarian). i thought i read somewhere (maybe on stopthemadness about a vegetarian t3 and t4 combo). maybe i can find that name again...

thanks. i have struggled with my docs about the issue for years because my numbers are always in the "right" range according to them, but i've continued to have issues.


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## airmide_m

Subbing so I can read through later when I have more time! I was finally diagnosed with Hashimoto's last summer (after telling doctors to test my thyroid for 13 years!) I'm currently on 3 grains of Armour. Still having trouble TTC and lots of hypo symptoms but of course doctors never want to treat based on symptoms so I'm still looking for a good doc (anyone know of one in the general Portland Oregon area?)


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## tug

argh!

so i talked to my doc and she sort of suggested that reading the internet or books is not a good idea.







: so, i'm trying to get an appt with a holistic person here in town who is supposed to be more open to alternate (alternate to synthroid/levoxyl) treatment.

airmide, check alt.support.thyroid.org or something like that. they have a search function for docs who may be good for various parts of the country.


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## treelover

hi...i haven't had time to read all the way through this thread yet, so i apologize if this has been covered...

i believe i have been hypothyroid for some 15 odd years now (never diagnosed). i have almost all of the symptoms and was actually put on antidepressants for a period of time due to misdiagnosis. i finally did find an integrated doctor who i thought was going to help me, but that seems to be a wash too. he did get blood results for TSH, T-3 and T-4 for me and I am not below the "normal" range although my T-4 is borderline below at .9 (TSH is 3.65 and T-3 is 274). He did give me a supplement called thyrowell, but when i read the label and it says to not consume if pregnant or nursing i took it back and asked him about it and his response was, "well, how long are you going to nurse?" My baby is 12 weeks old! he said he'd look around for something safe for me, but that was a week ago and he hasn't called yet. my symptoms have flared up after giving birth, most notably with weight gain despite eating a very balance and healthy diet. i am also beyond exhausted, stressed, emotional (angry/sad), foggy headed and Cold (my temp is often around 95). My hair is dry and falling out and my skin is so thick and dry that my heels cracked. my joints hurt so badly that i can barely get out of bed in the morning (mostly my ankle and wrists joints, but also shoulder, hip and knee) and i generally have pain...like the tops and bottoms of my feet hurt. i'm getting what i call zingers....headaches that start at the base of my neck and "zing" up my neck and make me feel sick to my stomach. something has to be done about this! i'm currently taking Vitamins C, D and B12 , a daily probiotic and lots of omega 3-6-9s. i guess my biggest question to you is what else can/should i be taking that's safe while nursing (and yes, i will be nursing for at least 2-3 years!







) should i ask to be put on armour? is it safe? just want to add that this is my second baby and although my symptoms are flaring now, i do have them in varying degrees even while not post partum. thanks for any and all help.


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## mum2be

Just found out I have Wilson's Syndrome...

I have low T3 and high free T4.

Anyone have any info on this? Where can I learn more? (I will look at the website JaneS posted on page 8)

Thanks









Oh, does anyone else have high liver enzymes because of thyroid issues? What about low progesterone? I'm trying to figure out if these are all connected...


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## NocturnalDaze

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treelover* 
i finally did find an integrated doctor who i thought was going to help me, but that seems to be a wash too. he did get blood results for TSH, T-3 and T-4 for me and I am not below the "normal" range although my T-4 is borderline below at .9 (TSH is 3.65 and T-3 is 274).

You are absolutely Hypo! Many labs will still tell you that TSH is in range if it is below 5. That has been changed in the last couple of years to less than 3 but for some reason the labs are still using the old ranges. Most people don't feel good unless they are below 2.

All of your symptoms SCREAM hypo. You need to find a doctor that will treat you by your symptoms. Armour is the prefered thyroid replacement and is totally safe while BF. It is just replacing something that your body needs.


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## tanyalynn

There are other alternative-type docs that will treat this. Keep looking. A lady a few pages back (I have totally forgotten her username---mommyshine! that's it) found one who did it with minerals. I did it using minerals as well, but on my own, sort of. There was a great website, ithyroid.com, that talked about mineral interactions and what deficiencies are involved. Unfortunately (







:







:







: ) it seems to have been sold and it's now a useless portal.

ETA: ithyroid.com was apparently just down for a month or so, and it's back! It has a ton of pages on research studies on thyroid function and minerals, both hypo and hyper. I read as much as I could and did the hypo regime of minerals/vitamins (lots and lots of pills) and feel a lot better. It's a do-it-yourself approach, which is sort of scary, but I am very happy with my results. I feel night-and-day better.

http://webhome.idirect.com/~wolfnowl/thyroid.htm

The Hyperthyroidism List Supplement List link (scroll down) is actually a hypo/hyper list. I did as much reading as I could stand, given how I felt, and bought a lot of minerals and vitamins and tried it (the minerals are temporary, to fix the deficiency, not permanent). I felt better (somewhat, I mean, but noticeable) within two weeks, and after ~2 months, my body temp came back up (it had dropped 1-1.5F at the onset of my symptoms, which was quite abrupt ~18 mos ago). But this link doesn't have all the info, just the supplement list. I am so bummed. But, there are alternative docs that apparently prescribe and monitor minerals very similar to this site.

But I also agree with the PP, lots of docs don't seem to know about and/or like the new limits (go to the American Assoc of Clinical Endocrinologists home page and search for Thyroid Awareness Month to find the press releases that discuss the new range). But if you search, you should be able to find someone who actually uses them. Or who treats based on symptoms instead of test results (but this seems harder). Whatever you do, good luck!


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## cohsmama

subbing


----------



## airmide_m

I'm still in the market for a good doctor, it's so infuriating!! I'm to the point I'm pretty well decided to get a backup supply of Armour or Thyroid S online so that I don't have to be quite as dependant on the doctors and quite so hysterical about their clulessness, but I'm still going to hold out hope and keep on looking for a good one.

I also found the results from the tests we asked my husband's doctor to run on him...the doc said it came back fine (I don't really blame him, he's a neurologist so it's not his area)...but now I see that my husbands TSH is 3.5. We didn't get antibodies tested but it would not at all surprise me if he had Hashi's as well.

Now I'm curious exactly how long I've been hypo. I'm sure my old doctors didn't test antibodies when they told me "everything is fine"....but I contacted the hospitals where I was tested and they're going to release my old test results to me....so pretty soon I'll be able to see what my TSH was when I was 22, and hopefully even when I was 16!


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## cohsmama

http://www.thyroid-info.com/topdrs/index.htm

This website lists doctors who have received patient recommendations. It has probably been posted before, but thought it was worth posting.

Be well,
Ann


----------



## airmide_m

Thanks for the link Cohsmama! I was just about to go looking for it again. Just so everyone knows though, a doctor being on the list is just a place to start...it doesn't necessarily mean they're a good doc. My last doc was on the list and I had a horrible time with him in SO many ways! But at least a place to start is better than nothing!


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## Lady Lilya

Wow, this thread is so long. I don't have time to read the whole thing. Sorry.

Here are my questions:

My SIL's best friend joined the Marines recently. They gave her a medical exam and she was fine. After a few weeks of boot camp, another medical exam found that she has hyperthyroidism, and they said she has to have her thyroid removed completely and she will need to take a drug for the rest of her life.

What alternatives might she have? (sorry I don't have any more details at this time, but I can ask)

Is it possible that something that happened to her in boot camp could have triggered it?

She is really freaked out by it and somewhat in denial. She has, at this point, simply done nothing about it for a while. Her friends are pushing her that she has to have it taken care of, and not to be a chicken. But, I am glad I found out about it before she had her thyroid removed so I could ask all of you if there is another option.

The Marines initially accused her of knowing about it in advance, and hiding it from them. But since their own initial test came out fine, they have discharged her honorably and are still paying her a periodic sum of money.


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## beachbuminthecity

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eleanorm* 
Then when he was about 6 months old a test showed that my levels had dropped again and the doctor wanted to increase me to 150 mcg a day. This time I said STOP. I immediately went to see a homeopath (first time in my life) who gave me a remedy (which I don't now remember). A couple of months later my levels had so improved that I could drop back down to 100 mcg a day!! It has been stable there for the past year. Hemeopathy rocks and I fully intend going back for further 'work' to try and get off the meds completely. However, as we are TTC I may put it off for a while.....

Can you post what the remedy was that the homeopath doc. gave you.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *its_our_family* 
My visit went really well. She asked why I was there and why I thought it was my thyroid. I went over about 4 things and she stopped me and said she needed to more convincing. I told her I had a list and she asked to see it and added it to my file. They are running about 10 blood test. SHe is checking my blood sugar, for anemia, and testing just about every hormone.

I told her about the weight gain, facial hair, tiredness, and acne.

So, it went well.

She also agreed that with everything I have going on that something is definetely amiss and that she will find out what it is.

Could you please let us know what the out come was for the other symptoms, cause I have the same exact ones too and I am on Armour meds. (I have only been on Armour for 2 months now was on synthyroid for a while and before that some few other different ones). I have had bad acne since I got married at 21yrs old--that is when I stopped birth control pills after 8 months on it and when I was diagnosed with hypothyroid, I am 43 yrs old now. As for the chin hairs that just started about a year ago and my weight gain changes alot--not sure if it is not being active in the winter, still figuring that one out. As for tireness I still have too and that I have good and bad days. And I have been waking up feeling exhausted. Mind you I have no kids and get at least a good 6 hrs sleep and then toss and turn.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Doing tests for Wilson's Temperature Syndrome and they are coming up low:
www.wilsonstemperaturesyndrome.com

It's low thyroid symptoms but normal blood tests. The problem is at the cellular level, not the gland.

I think I will start on WTS Med supplements per our holistic dietician before trying pure T3.

Interesting that I feel better if I drink lots of raw milk. I was told that contains thyroid hormone... will check on that.

I have read that it may have iodine because they use iodine to clean the cans that they put the milk in, but not sure if they were talking about how the process raw milk or regular milk.


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## mum2be

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beachbuminthecity* 

Could you please let us know what the out come was for the other symptoms, cause I have the same exact ones too and I am on Armour meds. (I have only been on Armour for 2 months now was on synthyroid for a while and before that some few other different ones). I have had bad acne since I got married at 21yrs old--that is when I stopped birth control pills after 8 months on it and when I was diagnosed with hypothyroid, I am 43 yrs old now. As for the chin hairs that just started about a year ago and my weight gain changes alot--not sure if it is not being active in the winter, still figuring that one out. As for tireness I still have too and that I have good and bad days. And I have been waking up feeling exhausted. Mind you I have no kids and get at least a good 6 hrs sleep and then toss and turn.[/COLOR]


This is me!! Well, sorta...









I am DESPERATELY trying to figure out what the heck is going on with my body. I have a diagnosed bad leaky gut which is causing a lot of problems, but there are some things that just don't make sense to me.

I was healthy, beautiful skin, beautiful hair, etc. before I got pregnant. I was on the BC pill for about 2 years, and when I went off, I started getting acne. Once I got pregnant, it was HORRIBLE!! Like to the point where I didn't want to go out in public. it was all over my face, back, chest, arms...disgusting!! I KNOW it was hormone related, but everyone assumed it would go away after the pregnancy. Well, it hasn't. I also developed BAD eczema on my face and hands that seemed to get worse when my acne got worse. Here's the interesting thing: BOTH OF THESE WENT AWAY FOR THE 2 WEEKS AFTER DD'S BIRTH!!! I was so happy and excited. I was getting my clear skin back and my hands could actually be put in water without my wanting to scream in pain. Then bam...just like it went, it came back. So aren't hormones like all wacky after birth? I think they sort of became more "normalized" and then went back to how screwed up they usually are.

I wake up in the morning exhausted. Dd doesn't sleep well and keeps me up a lot, but still...I shouldn't be more exhausted in the morning than when I went to bed.

I got the results of my nutrient elements test back and everything is high: zinc, magnesium, etc. so now we have to test our water.

I have low progesterone and normal-range estrogen (I think...althought it could be low too). I haven't been tested for testosterone. Maybe I should? I seriously think a lot of my problems are hormone related, but nobody will take me seriously.

My body temps are low (96-97 range) and I went on T3 treatment for Wilson's a week and a half ago. I got palpitations and had a high pulse, so I've had to wean off of it. I don't know if it was helping, but I noticed as I started to wean off that the "foggy" feeling was coming back and I felt constantly exhausted and low-energy. So maybe it was?! I start another round soon to see if I can get up to a dose that will get my temp up to 98.6 without side effects. I was up to a pretty high dose, but my temp didn't go over 98









Okay, I've rambled on enough, and probably half of this stuff makes no sense, but if anybody had any ideas...I would really appreciate it. I hate feeling ugly and tired all of the time







:


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## beachbuminthecity

I never got tests for hormones, part of me wants to and part doesn't. I also not sure but kind of think it is maybe part my thyroid--part hormones--and part adrenal fatigue(sp?)and possible part overgrowth yeast--my diet does make a diff.. I am thinking of changing docs. but my situation is holding back right now.

I know how you feel about the feeling ugly and with tired especially in the morning--sucks Your suppose to wake up feeling not tired, right, arrggg. I am so tired of feeling tired, I just want to feel normal.


----------



## aniT

Quote:


Originally Posted by *babygrant* 
Well apparently if you have no tonsils your thyroid takes over the job of your tonsils and your thyroid "forgets" how to do it's original purpose.

REALLY?!?!?!

I haven't had time to read this whole thread.

I went to my ND last week with a printed off list of symptoms of hypothyroidism. I put a check next to the ones I had.. she explained them all off..

Oh this is because you are fat (ok it wasn't phrased like that but that was the jist.) Oh dry skin? You don't drink enough water, craving for sweets? You have pre diabetes. She had me take some stupid "quiz" for the likely hood of diabetes and SHE scored me as a 45 the HIGHEST she has ever seen!!!! Of course my 9lb8oz son counted 10 points against me. never mind is 6'6" father who weighed 9'12" himself or that all the girls were in the low to mid 8'lbs.

Anyway I was wonder if there was a quiz i could print out to take in to show her that all these symptoms add up to X like the diabetes one. Instead of a long list of symptoms that could be anything. Sigh.

My symptoms:

Mother had it, Aunt had/has it, Grandma had it,

Depression, Rage/anger/irritability, craving for sweets, no sex drive, (it was low now it is non exisitant,) Weight gain/inability to loose weight, recent birth, (symptoms got worse at about 6 weeks PP.) No motivation, My elbows are really dry.. it got better while I was pregnant and I thought it was due to the fish oils.. but they are worse than ever now in spite of fish oils, my ND had me start taking kelp (just in case) and now my throat feels funny.. like something is suck way down in there...mostly at night... when I lay down at night my heart starts beating really fast, joint pain, pain in the bottom of my feet, AF returned at 4 months even though I am exclusively BFing.. might fall under irregular periods.. i dont know, muscle pain, uncoordinated movement. (a couple times in the last few weeks I will just miss a step on the stairs.) appitite lose, i was never hungry this pregnancy nor afterwards.. sure I will get hungry at like 3 or 4 if I haven't eaten all day.. but I am not generally hungry often. My CBC's always show anemia or like one point above what is considered anemia.

Oh and apparently lack of tonsils seems to be a risk factor as well.

so does anyone know of a quiz like thing I can take her?

Oh yea.. she told me to stay off the internet...







:


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## airmide_m

I'm so sorry aniT, I know how frustrating it is going to clueless medical professionals! If your ND is that afraid of you educating yourself and asking questions, maybe you should just start looking for a new doctor or ND? I wish I had a quiz-like list of symptoms for you. You know come to think of it, I think there might be something like that on about.com but I don't remember exactly where. You might also want to check out natural_thyroid_hormones yahoogroup and www.stopthethyroidmadness.com and they might have some help for you, but seriously I would move beyond this ND you're currently seeing if at all possible. Good luck!!


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## aniT

Well she is the only ND in town and DH works for her in trade. We don't have insurance. Sigh. I think I might just have to go in there and insist she order tests or something.


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## NocturnalDaze

After 10 years of not getting my hypo properly treated I did my own testing and I am now self treating with the help of people at the Stop the Thyroid Madness forum.

You can order your own testing at Canary Club: http://www.canaryclub.org/component/...page/Itemid,1/

The Diagnos-Techs test is the best one. It is $141.50 and it tests:
"Thyroid Tests (TSH, Free T4, Free T3, microsomal antibody)

Adrenal Stress Tests (four samples for cortisol and DHEA) .. This involves one saliva sample collected in the morning before breakfast, another sample collected around noon (before lunch), another around 4 p.m.
(before dinner), and another around 10 p.m. (before bed).

Sex Hormone Tests (estrogen, progesterone, testosterone) .. Men and menopausal women can do this one saliva sample testing on any day of any month. Menstruating women should do this one saliva sample testing on day nineteen, twenty or twenty-one of their cycle. (Day one is the first day you notice bleeding)"

Notice that this does the *free* T3 which is more important than the T3 uptake tests that are usually done.

It tests for antibodies so if you have Hashi's it won't be missed. Most docs only do TSH and if that's fine then they are all done with you.

It also tests your adrenals. The majority of people who are Hypo also have adrenal insufficiency because their hypo has gone undetected for so long that it has made the adrenals overcompensate to make up for it and as a result they are worn out...

Adrenal insufficiency symptoms:

_* Extreme weakness
* Fatigue
* Unintentional weight loss
* Nausea and vomiting
* Chronic diarrhea
* Loss of appetite
* Darkening of the skin - patchy skin color
o Unnaturally dark color in some locations
o Paleness may also occur
* Mouth lesions on the inside of a cheek (buccal mucosa) - pigmentation
* Slow, sluggish movement
* Changes in blood pressure or heart rate
* Salt craving
* Sugar cravings
_

(Of these my symptoms were fatigue, weakness, no appetite until 5pm, salt and sugar cravings, dizzy everytime I stand quickly. As you can see you don't need all of the symptoms to have it.)

If your adrenals are not treated as well then you will get to a point where you can not raise you Armour anymore even though you need to. You will start to get Hyper symptoms sooner than you should.

The test kit is free. You pay when you send it back to the lab.

If you need help understanding your tests go to the Stop the Thyroid Madness forum "TSH and Labwork" http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com...forum.php?f=11 . Do not have Canary Club help you with the results (they are doing it for profit STTM is not).


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## eleanorm

I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism 8 years ago and have been on 100mcg/day of hormone replacement. Everything has been going very well at this level apart from a brief increase to 125mg/day a few years ago. This was also sufficient through my last pregnancy and postpartum - no changes were required.

Now I am 18 weeks pregnant with #2 and things are very different - my level has been increased twice already to 150mcg/day and I still see the unwelcome symptoms (but some could just be plain pregnancy ones!). I understand that about 85% of hypo women need to increase their medication during preganacy but I can't help getting concerned when each test shows a worsening situation. I would really love to hear of your experiences during pregnancy; what increase in medication did you see? Did you get back to your initial levels postpartum?


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## faerierose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eleanorm* 
I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism 8 years ago and have been on 100mcg/day of hormone replacement. Everything has been going very well at this level apart from a brief increase to 125mg/day a few years ago. This was also sufficient through my last pregnancy and postpartum - no changes were required.

Now I am 18 weeks pregnant with #2 and things are very different - my level has been increased twice already to 150mcg/day and I still see the unwelcome symptoms (but some could just be plain pregnancy ones!). I understand that about 85% of hypo women need to increase their medication during preganacy but I can't help getting concerned when each test shows a worsening situation. I would really love to hear of your experiences during pregnancy; what increase in medication did you see? Did you get back to your initial levels postpartum?

I am hypo due to radiation treatment for a hyper thyroid. My last pregnancy I went from 100 micrograms of synthroid to 175 micrograms a day during my pregnancy. I was back to the original 100mcg by 4 months pp  I wouldn't worry about you levels dropping as long as you are being tested often and adjusting your dose as needed. I saw my endo about once a month while I was pregnant.


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## amyjeans

I have graves even after my thyroidectomy in 98. I just found a great DO (Doc of Osteopath) who put me on natural thyroid hormone.
My dd2 has congenital hypo and is still on synthroid, which we will be changing soon.
I learned a lot from this site

www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

All my best!


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## amyjeans

wow- just looking over this thread- seems y'all know of that site!!!!


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## JaneS

Really good book:

*Solved: The Riddle of Illness*
by Stephen Langer, M.D. and James Scheer
http://www.thyroid-info.com/solved.htm

He recs desiccated thyroid and has lots of info from Broda O. Barnes' clinical work with BBT testing and same.


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## amore74

I just found this thread and I love it!

I was diagnosed with hashimoto's last year when I got pregnant. I've been on synthroid since. Right now 100mg. After I gave birth, I turned very hyperthyroid and suddenly very hypothyroid (my tsh was 97 at one point). I talked to my endo about switching to armour but she talked me out of it. i feel fine on synthroid but i hear that long term use has very bad side effects.

anyone with this problem?


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## cloak

Why did your endo say that you shouldn't switch to armour? I'm planning on asking mine about it soon.


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## amore74

she said that when you take T4 hormones (synthroid), your body takes the T4 that it really needs and it converts it to however much T3, T2, etc that is needed. She said that taking Armour your body can't control that conversion, you get T4 and T3 as is in the drug. It made sense at the time when I heard it but I don't want to be on Synthroid if I have to be on it forever. I feel fine on synthroid so far and she said she would only recommend Armour for those patients who don't do well on Synthroid.

What do you guys think?


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## NocturnalDaze

Here is some info on why T4 meds are bad:
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com...eds-dont-work/

I was on synthroid then Levoxyl over the last 10 years and I never felt much better. I was always depressed and I believe the 2 miscarriages I had were the result of low T3.

No matter what you take Sythroid, Armour etc... it is usually for life.


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## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amore74* 
she said that when you take T4 hormones (synthroid), your body takes the T4 that it really needs and it converts it to however much T3, T2, etc that is needed. She said that taking Armour your body can't control that conversion, you get T4 and T3 as is in the drug. It made sense at the time when I heard it but I don't want to be on Synthroid if I have to be on it forever. I feel fine on synthroid so far and she said she would only recommend Armour for those patients who don't do well on Synthroid.

What do you guys think?

The biggest problem is that many many people CANNOT make the conversion to the active form of T3 on a cellular level correctly and that is why they still have symptoms on Synthroid.

That is also why Armour is usually started on a 1/4 or 1/2 grain and then slowly increased to avoid overdose.

Mary Shomon is the person to go to for info. on this. Her books and at About.com.


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## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NocturnalDaze* 
No matter what you take Sythroid, Armour etc... it is usually for life.


Unless you have Wilson's Low Temp Syndrome... you only take T3 for a short time.


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## Anastasiya

I had Grave's disease, diagnosed at 15 years old (had a resting heart rate of 125+ and palpitations so we went to the ER). There were other symptoms as well, but the racing heart was what got us looking into the cause.

I got the radioactive iodine treatment and am now hypo. Was on Synthroid for nearly 10 years but never, never, ever felt good on it. Finally saw a different specialist who said I needed to be on the high end of normal and he switched me over to Armour. I've been on Armour for 8 years and I have never felt better in my life. Praise God!!!

My pharmacist asked me after noticing I switched from Synthroid to Armour how I liked it. I said I loved it and never felt better. He said that when he notices people make the "switch" he always asks them and every single person so far had said they do better on Armour. Interesting.


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## eleanorm

Amanda,
Thanks for sharing your experiences. It makes me feel better to hear your story to give me confidence that this situation is temporary and hopefully will go back to normal shortly after the baby arrives.


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## amore74

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NocturnalDaze* 
Here is some info on why T4 meds are bad:
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com...eds-dont-work/

I was on synthroid then Levoxyl over the last 10 years and I never felt much better. I was always depressed and I believe the 2 miscarriages I had were the result of low T3.

No matter what you take Sythroid, Armour etc... it is usually for life.

that is a great web site.

i am also concerned about possible miscarriages in the future (i plan on having more children, so far only ds).

so how much synthroid did you take?


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## NocturnalDaze

I was on 88mcg of Levoxyl at the time of my miscarriages. I switched to Armour in December, so far I'm up to 3 1/2 grains. I'm also on 20mg of Hydrocortisone for my adrenals.


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## amore74

did you switch doctors or did your doctor at the time switch you from one to the other?

i'm going to have labwork done again today. i feel like i might be on too high of a dose. i feel like i've been drinking too much caffeine. i'm also thinking about switching drs.


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## amyjeans

So, my story is I was diagnosed with Graves in 1992, ignored it for about 3 yrs until my goiter got so big it was choking me. 1998, complete thyroidectomy, and immediately plummeted into Hypothyroidism. my dosage of synthroid went from .05mcg to now- a hefty dose 400/300 mcg alternating days. Since the surgery, I never was able to get my levels in check, and I went through 6 endocrinologists in my state to find the right doctor- and I just switched from an endo- to an DO, Doctor of Osteopath.(Thanks to stop the thyroid madness site) and she took me off synthroid and I am now on dessicated thyroid. (like armour)
It has been 1 week and I feel 100% better.
My energy is up some, my aches are minor, and my headaches are less.
Now, my 2.5 yr old has congenital hypothyroidism and she is seeing several doctors for that- and endo from Yale, the DO,pediatric opthomalogist, and massage therapists. I have a strong feeling that her thyroid disfunctions contribute to her vision problems, which are severe.
She is on synthroid, but soon to be on Armour I hope.


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## amore74

amyjeans-
thanks for sharing your story. I hope that the new DO and all the other specialists help your daughter. I was wondering if I need to have my son tested since I have Hashimotos. I was wondering if he can get anything through breastmilk (excuse my ignorance).
I just found a DO that prescribes bioidentical hormones so I might go to see him after I get the results of my bloodwork.


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## mommyshine

For any one who is internested here is my TSH data. I had post partum hypothyroid after both pregnancies. Treated it with supplements while under the care of an MD who practices integrated medicine. I probably spend more on my supplements than I would on an Rx







: But it seems to work for me for now. Although my thyroid funtion is getting normal I am have terrible mood swings and bouts of rage







I think my estrogen is out of whack now...or maybe it is in whack and I am supposed to be this way ! ? I get really bad headaches right before my period starts - never had that before.

TSH
.35-5.5
11/13/96 1.3
10/28/02 "normal"
1/5/05 9.35 8 mos postpartum 1st child
1/18/05 7.23
3/3/05 2.995
3/30/05 3.948
6/1/05 2.78
8/10/05 2.221 Monitoring TSH while pregnant
9/23/05 3.633
10/7/05 3.302
11/2/05 2.117
12/2/05 2.895
1/4/06 2.637
3/15/06 2.852
5/1/06 2.84
6/12/06 1.783
10/2/06 14.156 6 mo postpartum 2nd child
11/30/06 3.513
1/4/07 5.139
4/3/07 3.026 Second baby is one yr old


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## NocturnalDaze

When my TSH is where yours is now I have mood swings and bouts of rage. Even though it may be considered "in the normal range" it is not good. I'm guessing if your TSH is off then your free T3 & T4 are also out of whack. If you don't get all of those levels where they need to be you risk heart problems and osteoporosis in the future.

Do you feel tired all of the time? Untreated Hypo often causes adrenal fatigue, then you'll have that to deal with as well.

If your having mood swings and rage the supplements are not working for you very well. When my Armour dose is right all moodiness, anger and depression are GONE!!!!!!

Your right about the cost. A prescription of Armour is about $20 a month.


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## tanyalynn

Mommyshine, I've been noticing something that may be similar. I feel a lot better since I did my round of heavy-duty supplements, and I'm on lower levels now (still doing the do-it-yourself approach, but I think I'm going to try to find a professional knowledgeable in this stuff after we move this summer). But I think my hormones are off, too. I've started charting again and based on what I see, I think there's too much estrogen and not enough progesterone--my luteal phase it too short and it never was before. I've found hints in my reading that too much estrogen is part of the whole hypo thing. But I'm a bit stumped on where to go from here.

I got recommendations for a couple books that I'm going to order soon to see what should be next. Does your alternative doc have thoughts on this? Personally I'm worried because although I really don't want to get pregnant now (the last pregnancy was murder on my body and I'm just glad the baby seems healthy), I do hope for more kids and I don't think I could get pregnant the way I am (such a short luteal phase). And it does seem that your last TSH is a bit high, I know I felt okay at 1.05 but immediately after I went in to my ex-doc with symptoms (it was fast, so maybe my TSH was still changing, not sure how quickly that happens, but my symptoms came on very suddenly), my TSH was still only 1.55. It took quite a while to drift high enough to raise a red flag despite my symptoms. But I digress.

And may I ask (did I ask before?) how long were you on your supplements? And if you've stopped (or tapered to a lower level) how long has that been? I took my heavy-duty doses for ~2 months (I started to feel better in 2 weeks, I wasn't sure how long that would take) and now I'm on lower doses and fewer (the regime I was doing had me taking fistfuls of pills and I'm glad that part is over). Still relatively high levels of selenium and zinc and B vitamins.

Take care.


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## moonlightinvt

Has anyone here worked with the Women to Women clinic out of Maine (or via web) for thyroid/hormone related problems? What do you think about their program? http://www.womentowomen.com/hypothyr...limbalance.asp

Has anyone tried their supplements? http://www.womentowomen.com/essentialnutrients.asp

I've subscribed to this thread and appreciate the conversation. I'm still trying to sort through all the info I've read and heard over the last year to determine _my_ best course of action. Frankly, it is all very confusing and contradictory







:







: It all depends on the source and both camps (conventional vs. alternative) can be quite convincing (especially when also marketing a product), as I'm sure many of you have noticed.

In a nutshell, I have Hashi and low-functioning thyroid (known from tests), however, I also know there is much more going on than just thyroid problems--definitely hormone related but _I_ feel within the realm of being corrected with lifestyle changes and supplements (I am hopeful







).

Thanks for the discussion!


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## amore74

I had never heard of that web site but that has some great info. I also have Hashimoto's and I'm on synthroid. Although I feel fine and my tsh is in normal range, I don't want to be on synthroid for the rest of my life.

If you do visit them or order their supplements, please let us know how you are doing with them. That sounds very interesting.


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## tanyalynn

Hi Moonlightinvt, I'll add in my 2-cents on what I've done. Doing my various reading I ended up at ithyroid.com, a website written by a man who dealt with his hyper- and hypothyroidism with mineral/vitamin supplements. He doesn't sell anything or recommend where to buy, so there's some degree of objectivity, but it still has to be weighed with everything else out there. He's combined a lot of human and animal studies on minerals and vitamins and their relationship to thyroid function and come up with a list of things to take for a while--not forever, thank goodness, because even buying online, it was expensive, and it was a pain and a half to take so many pills. I ended up taking the slew of pills he recommended, though, and it worked for me--I felt significantly better in ~2 weeks.

It was scary, back in January when I started this. I felt horrible, I had a prescription for synthroid in hand and I was deciding not to fill it.

And like I wrote above, the hormonal imbalance thing still seems to be an issue for me, but I just read a passing comment (in the newest issue of Mothering, interestingly enough) linking high copper and high estrogen. Since zinc deficiency is one of the major players in the approach I've taken, and zinc and copper have an opposing relationship, I am wondering if I'm just still low on zinc but not so much on selenium and iodine, the other two main minerals that were deficient. I'm off to do more reading on minerals and estrogen and see what I can find, but maybe this is my next step. I'm not done, by a long shot, but it's started me on a good road to more learning.


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## zane

Is there an easy way to get vitamin and mineral testing? How do you know, with out the hunt and peck method, which supplement YOU need and at which dose?

I am on armour and my numbers are good, but my cycles are all out of whack and I still feel "off". Am starting Vitex which is supposed to help all things hormonal, and am taking a fist full of vitamins and such every day. Am sort of working with Dr but I think he is out of ideas, and he was my last option.









suggested links for the DIY supplment train?


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## mama_b

Wow, I'm really glad I found this thread. I was just looking for information on this. I haven't been diagnosed yet, but I'm calling my doc first thing in the morning. My story is pretty long. I had a m/c in December. DD was 15 months old. After that I started having panic attacks. I went to the doc, and when I described my symptoms she wanted me to get my thyroid checked. I didn't know anything about the thyroid, and I didn't have insurance, so I refused. She prescribed me Zoloft because I was desperate, but wasn't very happy about my refusal to have my thyroid checked. So I started taking the Zoloft and it worked well for a short while, then the anxiety and spaciness symptoms started coming back again. Soon after, I found out I was pregnant. At 6 weeks, all hell seemed to break loose health wise. I told my midwife about my symptoms, and she seemed to think that early pregnancy was just hitting me really hard. I even made a couple posts about it on the pregnancy board. I had pretty much accepted that this was just pregnancy and that it would get better after the first trimester. Then today I dragged my sorry but off the couch and went to Walmart with dh, and I realized that there is no way that the way I felt could ALL be attributed to pregnancy. I started thinking about having my thyroid checked, and decided to research. I have many symptoms of hyperthyroidism. I will be 9 weeks pregnant tomorrow. My symptoms are:
-extreme fatigue
-bad muscle weakness
-lightheadedness
-dizziness when I get up, and sometimes it's constant
-extreme head fogginess. I feel like I'm in a dream. Things don't look real.
-Visual problems. I can't seem to focus my eyes very well.
-I have been having pain/pressure behind my eyes, especially my left eye.
-Weight loss. I have been nauseous and eating a little less than normal, but not THAT much less. With the amount that I've been eating, there really isn't any reason why I should have lost the amount of weight I've lost in the past 3 weeks. I'm wasting away.
-anxiety and shakiness
-some heart palpitations
-extreme sensitivity to bright lights

That's all I can think of right now. Like I said, I'm calling my doc first thing in the morning. I feel like an idiot for not getting tested sooner. Hopefully she can get me in quickly. I'm a total basketcase, almost totally non-functional, and I feel like I'm dying.


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## NocturnalDaze

Mama_b: It sounds like it may be your adrenals as well. Try to get them to give you a cortisol test. A saliva test is best but they can do a blood test as well.


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## mama_b

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NocturnalDaze* 
Mama_b: It sounds like it may be your adrenals as well. Try to get them to give you a cortisol test. A saliva test is best but they can do a blood test as well.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. Do you know any good resources where I can read about it?


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## NocturnalDaze

Off the top of my head:
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/

Symptoms:
# Chronic fatigue that progressively worsens
# Muscle weakness
# Loss of appetite
# Weight loss.
# Nausea
# Vomiting
# Diarrhea.

Obiously nausea occurs during pregnancy but excessive nausea could be due to the adrenals.

It's the weight loss and shakiness that stand out as a reason to get them looked at.

If you google adrenal insufficiency you can find out more.


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## treelover

hi again...i posted here a while back about some of my story (being hypo and not being able to get diagnosed). Anyway, I did finally get my doctor to try me on Armour. He started me out on a really low dose (1/2 grain) which seemed to help some of my joint pain but did nothing else. After 1 month he doubled my dose up to 1 grain/day and now I am started to feel a tad bit better and am finally losing some weight at 4.5 mos. post partum. At the same time, however, I am on a total elimination diet to try and figure out my dd's eczema outbreak on her face. Her doctor wants me to go off of the Armour and switch to synthroid thinking it's the Armour that's causing her eczema. Does that sound plausible? The dates do correspond....meaning she did get the eczema around the same time I started the Armour and I had already been off of dairy, egg, soy and wheat. Should I go on Synthroid or not even bother because of the T3 issues with it? Some of you have told me your stories with healing/controlling your thryoid yourself.....if it turns out the Armour is what's bugging my dd, I could probably attempt vitamin/mineral therapy myself too....but at the moment I'm off of all of my supplements.

Thanks for your knowledge!


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## JaneS

Treelover,
Aren't there other natural thyroid hormones avail. besides Armour? (which is made from pork so maybe that's it). Are you giving probiotics (bifidobacterium)?


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zane* 
Is there an easy way to get vitamin and mineral testing? How do you know, with out the hunt and peck method, which supplement YOU need and at which dose?

I am on armour and my numbers are good, but my cycles are all out of whack and I still feel "off". Am starting Vitex which is supposed to help all things hormonal, and am taking a fist full of vitamins and such every day. Am sort of working with Dr but I think he is out of ideas, and he was my last option.









suggested links for the DIY supplment train?


Some ideas:

Read Nutrition/Immunology 101 sticky in Vaccinations forum.

ONE test from Genova.

Red blood cell erythrocyte test for minerals per Gale Force.

I would consider kelp for the iodine, at least 200mcg of selenium, a natural vitamin C such as amla or acerola powder and anywhere from 2 tsp to 2 T. of high vitamin cod liver oil.

Magnesium deficiency is very common, another good one to start with.

I've found in my reading about traditional diets (www.westonaprice.org) that hormones are also influenced greatly by the types of fats you eat. The current craze of low saturated fat, high PUFA does not meet our biological need or history.

You could also be needing MORE thyroid hormone, blood tests are not necessarily the best indicator.


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## tanyalynn

Zane,

I did pretty much this:

http://ithyroid.com/supplement_list.htm

Caveats: I did a lot of google searches for things like "study selenium toxicity" for a lot of minerals and vitamins because I wanted to learn where these numbers were in relation to toxic levels for all the ones that were significantly different than a normal multi (which is usually the RDA).

I made a couple minor changes based on what I'm taking now or what I think I need (more magnesium than he says, but that's me--I found my irregular heartbeat went away a couple years ago after I started taking magnesium), my bloodwork showed iron on the high end of normal so I didn't do much there, and I skipped the silver (I don't know enough to take it). I took most of the other stuff, which is a TON of pills.

My recent learning: I started feeling a lot better in about 2 weeks but I had been taking zinc and iodine beforehand. But I think I am having lingering zinc-copper problems, which may make sense--zinc is one of the minerals people in the US are most deficient in and my diet has been sadly typical to this point. This is spurring significant dietary learning and slowly changing the way we eat. Habits are hard to break and re-make but I'm working on it.

So, I didn't figure it all out on my own. I tried to do a sanity-check on what's listed and then I jumped in. And I am "monitoring" on my own by how I feel (which is why I had to do more learning on my new symptoms--strange menstrual cycles, still abnormally low sweating/little oil in hair)--I think this could be excess copper (zinc-copper balance each other, so I think the selenium and iodine deficiencies were first to clear up enough that I'm not feeling horrible, but the zinc deficiency is lingering).

Make any sense? I am writing fast, not sure when everyone will start waking up and my day will begin.


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## flutemandolin

subbing

I was glad to find this thread after being away from MDC for a long time! I have been dealing with the following symptoms for about three years:

Weight gain (40 pounds), even when I cut out sugars and processed foods. I really wasn't eating much!

Fatigue

Joint pain

Lack of motivation

Mild depression

Mood swings, irritability

Intolerance to cold and heat

Swelling in my fingers, face, and legs

I researched every possible cause on the Internet and finally suspected hypothyroidism. I mentioned my symptoms to my doctor last fall, and he did a bunch of blood tests, including TSH, and later T3 and T4. He said they were all normal, although the TSH I think was 2 or 3 something, which by the new standards indicates hypo. So I went back to Internet research and I've been trying various supplements, including natural progesterone cream. I think I'm on the right track, since I actually stopped gaining weight over the winter, but I haven't lost any either.

Gotta run now, but looking forward to more info and discussion!

Deb


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## amore74

today i visited a DO for an alternative treatment to my hypothyroid and hashimoto's. he switched me from 100 mcg of synthroid to 1 grain of armour. he also ordered a complete candida test from genova labs and a full mineral and vitamin analysis from spectracell. he wants to check to see if anemia might be behind this, or candida.

anyone has had these tested?


----------



## beachbuminthecity

Your doctor is right on about the candida test. I wish I had a doctor like that, where do you live and how much do the test cost, if you don't mind mentioning it. Will any of the tests include hormone, adrenal glands, DHEA, and some other ones this site http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com...ended-labwork/ recommends these labs. I would also look into fungus too, you may want to listen to all these vidoes of this person "Doug Kaufmann" host of Know the cause" watch all of them they are very interesting http://www.knowthecause.com/. I use to be on synthyroid and now on armour. I like it better.


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## purplegirl

I was put on levo(sp) 100mcg back in Oct after my total thyroidectomy. After about 6 weeks, my tsh was horribly high so my doc increased it to 150. I have had fibroid surgery recently and have noticed that my blood pressure has sky rocketed. I am wondering if all of the challenges/changes in my body are causing the synthroid to not be effective and I am becoming hyper. my pulse rate is up as well. I am getting the tsh level checked tomorrow so I will know for sure, but what do you think?


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## amore74

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beachbuminthecity* 
Your doctor is right on about the candida test. I wish I had a doctor like that, where do you live and how much do the test cost, if you don't mind mentioning it. Will any of the tests include hormone, adrenal glands, DHEA, and some other ones this site http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com...ended-labwork/ recommends these labs. I would also look into fungus too, you may want to listen to all these vidoes of this person "Doug Kaufmann" host of Know the cause" watch all of them they are very interesting http://www.knowthecause.com/. I use to be on synthyroid and now on armour. I like it better.

i'm in palm beach county, fl. the cost was $75 since it was covered by insurance but he's going to do more test that i don't know if they'll be covered. one test is through spectracell labs and the other genova. he didn't order the hormone labs and the rest you mentioned. he drew blood for a comprehensive mineral and vitamin study, to check my antibody level for hashimoto's (I know i have them).

we also talked about doing a test to check for heavy metal poisoning but i'm not sure about that since i'm breastfeeding and planning to get pregnant after that.


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## amore74

Quote:


Originally Posted by *purplegirl* 
I was put on levo(sp) 100mcg back in Oct after my total thyroidectomy. After about 6 weeks, my tsh was horribly high so my doc increased it to 150. I have had fibroid surgery recently and have noticed that my blood pressure has sky rocketed. I am wondering if all of the challenges/changes in my body are causing the synthroid to not be effective and I am becoming hyper. my pulse rate is up as well. I am getting the tsh level checked tomorrow so I will know for sure, but what do you think?

i'm not sure what might be going on in your system but if you feel that you might be turning hyper, it's probably true. that happened to me postpartum. i was hypo, then hyper, then super hypo (my tsh was up to 97). talk to your dr about it and maybe try to find a second opinion if you are not comfortable with what he/she says. i had to do that also.

i have hashimoto's and according to what i have read, you can go from hypo to hyper symptoms easily. also, all the hormonal changes you go through with all that surgery must affect you one way or another so it wouldn't surprise me if your dose would need to be adjusted.


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## purplegirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amore74* 
i'm not sure what might be going on in your system but if you feel that you might be turning hyper, it's probably true. that happened to me postpartum. i was hypo, then hyper, then super hypo (my tsh was up to 97). talk to your dr about it and maybe try to find a second opinion if you are not comfortable with what he/she says. i had to do that also.

i have hashimoto's and according to what i have read, you can go from hypo to hyper symptoms easily. also, all the hormonal changes you go through with all that surgery must affect you one way or another so it wouldn't surprise me if your dose would need to be adjusted.

Thank you sweetie. Just got back from the labs and had blood drawn for TSH AND free t4. I should know by tomorrow!


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## airmide_m

I know this is a longshot but thought I might as well ask - does anyone have a doctor they're happy with, within driving distance of Portland Oregon? I need one who will do a combo of treating by tests and by symptoms, who will test free T3 and antibodies, and understands that Armour suppresses TSH. Also someone who has knowledge of bioidentical hormone replacement would be ideal...my progesterone cream is the thing I'm due to run out of soonest. Thanks!


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## aniT

Quote:


Originally Posted by *airmide_m* 
I know this is a longshot but thought I might as well ask - does anyone have a doctor they're happy with, within driving distance of Portland Oregon? I need one who will do a combo of treating by tests and by symptoms, who will test free T3 and antibodies, and understands that Armour suppresses TSH. Also someone who has knowledge of bioidentical hormone replacement would be ideal...my progesterone cream is the thing I'm due to run out of soonest. Thanks!

Try posting on Finding your tribe on the PDX thread.. or at least start your own thread. I "think" one of those mom's takes thyroid medicine but I don't know exactly what she takes.

At the very least come introduce yourself.


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## airmide_m

Hehe thanks Tina, I've been over in that area a few times and even posted on the main chat thread a couple times, but it seems like most people just read the main chat thread and not so much the rest of the area....and that chat thread moves SO fast I have trouble keeping up! You're right though, posting there was the next thing I was planning on. Do you happen to have an opinion on whether I should start my own thread, or just post to the general chat thread? Thanks!


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## aniT

I say just hop onto the "big thread." Introduce yourself and ask if anyone has a recommendation.









I have to admit. I just refresh "the big thread" and only check out the rest of the board once a week or so.


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## airmide_m

Thanks so much for checking in here with me! I posted in the general forum but I'll go post on the main thread too. How on earth do you keep up? I'm still TTC so I haven't been to any playdates or events or anything yet, maybe it's easier once you know people in real life too? hehe.


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## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *airmide_m* 
I know this is a longshot but thought I might as well ask - does anyone have a doctor they're happy with, within driving distance of Portland Oregon? I need one who will do a combo of treating by tests and by symptoms, who will test free T3 and antibodies, and understands that Armour suppresses TSH. Also someone who has knowledge of bioidentical hormone replacement would be ideal...my progesterone cream is the thing I'm due to run out of soonest. Thanks!

Armour suppresses TSH and that is a good thing. TSH=thyroid stimulating hromone. High TSH means your gland is working overtime and means you do not have enough thyroid hormone available.

Officially you want a TSH under 3 and some feel better at less:
http://thyroid.about.com/cs/testsfor...a/labs2003.htm

For effective OTC brands of progesterone cream, see Dr. John Lee's site:
http://www.johnleemd.com/


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## JaneS

Reading again my favorite book "Solved: The Riddle of Illness" on how *vitamin A deficiency* cases inability to produce thyroid hormone as well as interferes with iodine uptake. Animal studies reveal within 2 weeks of vitamin A deficiency, thyroid hormone production is reduced by 50%.

Thyroid problems also interfere with conversion of beta carotene into vitamin A, so don't expect to get your vit. A from carrots and other veggies. You need only animal sources of preformed retinol, high vitamin cod liver oil being the best (see info at www.westonaprice.org).

My sister has xerophthalmia and bulging eyes and I'm making a strong case for her b/c she is not taking her cod liver oil.

I'm going to suggest a loading dose of 200,000 IU of true retinol for a couple days.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/g12043675437054u/
(click on 'Open Entire Document' link at right)


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## JaneS

Also Dr. Langer's book goes into *B vitamin deficiency* and how it effects the working of the thyroid gland.

Is everyone taking a B vitamin complex?

I would do either desiccated liver or Brewer's yeast for best food sources. More on those in Gale Force's Vitamin B Challenge thread in Traditional Foods.


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## airmide_m

Thanks Tina for pointing me over to that forum! I did get one very good recommendation and I can't wait to see how that turns out...if it doesn't work out I'll probably post on the main chat thread and see if anyone knows of anyone else.

JaneS, yeah I know suppressed TSH is a good thing...I'm just afraid of doctors who don't! I've heard so many horror stories of people with doctors who will only test TSH or when they see a suppressed TSH will say the medication level is too high and force patients to cut back on their Armour.

The vitamin A and B link you mention is interesting. I'm taking a mega B complex. I have no idea where I am with A...I think there's some in my vitamins plus I do eat a lot of fruits and vegetables. So would brewer's yeast work for vegetarians? Are there any drawbacks to taking brewer's yeast?


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## babygrant

I think my thyroid is off again. My doctor took me off the meds a few months ago. Past couple of weeks I've been going downhill with my moods and a depressed feeling. Then on Friday when I needed to start studying for an exam I clued in that I can't even concentrate. I went and got my blood drawn yesterday and I'm waiting to hear from my doctor. I have an exam today and I'm about to cry. I studied for hours and hours and hours all weekend and I can barely even remember anything. I've done so well on all of my other tests. Even my husband commented that I'm really struggling the past few days because usually I remember every single one of my flash cards and this set were hit and miss.







I've been having nightmares again as well. If it's not my thyroid, I really fear that I'll have to get put on antidepressants. This blows.


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## airmide_m

Sorry you're going through such a rough time Babygrant, I hope things get better for you soon! I'm on a natural thyroid hormones yahoogroup...http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Natura...dHormones/join
maybe they might have some suggestions for you. Have you had your hormones tested? I would investigate further before going on antidepressants.


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## bigeyes

I had no idea this thread was here!

I believe I was hyper thyroid for most of my life, and then excessive blood loss led to my pituitary shutting down, which means no control for your thyroid, hence hypothyroid.

the yahoo group is a great source of info, and the stopthethyroidmadness.com website is too.


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## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *airmide_m* 
The vitamin A and B link you mention is interesting. I'm taking a mega B complex. I have no idea where I am with A...I think there's some in my vitamins plus I do eat a lot of fruits and vegetables. So would brewer's yeast work for vegetarians? Are there any drawbacks to taking brewer's yeast?

The type of A in vitamins is usually the toxic teratogenic kind. The amount in veggies will not be sufficient, especially for hypos who have impaired conversion.

See Gale Force's thread on brewer's yeast, I'm not as knowledgable.


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## purplegirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *purplegirl* 
Thank you sweetie. Just got back from the labs and had blood drawn for TSH AND free t4. I should know by tomorrow!


Yup, I am definitely hyper as my lab work confirmed today. I had been telling my docs that I felt that way but it took a bit before they would listen. That makes me so freaking mad







: My blood pressure had been raging, heart pounding and difficulty sleeping. What more did they need to see? Sheesh!


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## WannabeaFarmer

Well first let me start by saying my doc is LAZY. Wont see me for my thyroid, wont take my blood like my endo was(told me that the 100mcg of Levothyroxine was a good dose for me







: ). Then let me tell you my story:
First diagnosed with Graves when I was 5 mo preg with DD. Put on PTU cause we found that the Graves was what was causing me to lose all my babies before(had 6 unsuccessful preg until DD which was #7). Changed the PTU to Levo in my 7th mo(which was about a week before I delivered at 31 weeks). Then I went to another endo pp(insurance changed). He told me I now have Hashimoto's. And kept me on the Levo at about 75mcg. Then periodically checked my blood(every 4 weeks) and I wound up at 100mcg's of the Levo now.
So I stopped seeing my endo cause it was a really rough long drive with a screaming toddler in my backseat for 45min there and 45 min home every 4 weeks. BIG MISTAKE, I totally need to see an endo again cause my Hashimoto's symptoms are getting worse. I gained 20lbs(nothing has changed and I am even exercising more), and I am hungry all night and cant eat at all during the day, my cramps have gotten HORENDOUS, my thyroid is swollen up huge, and I jsut have all the wonderful symptoms that are telling me that I need to be re-evaled.
So that is my fun tale to tell. I have to get my doc straightened out so I can get my thyriod under control.
Let me just say this thread is GREAT!! It is great to meet other moms who have thyriod problems too. Sometimes its soo hard to explain why I have such a hard time having a baby since no one understands, but YALL DO








So








and I will be around here awhile..


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## cyberpriya

Sandra,
I was just dx'd with hypo today. I feel devastatedas I have been working ith a naturopath for years and this has gone under his radar somehow. I want to know.....do you feel betternow? Is there hope?
Patti


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## Leersia

I just stumbled across this thread. I don't know if anyone can answer this for me, but my TSH has been only slightly elevated for two years now (6.5), and my T4 is normal. My mother has been hypothyroid since having me at age 25, and my TSH became elevated after having twins at age 35 - so there is definately a family history. I've been having some irregular bleeding, but I also have PCOS, so it is entirely possible that my thyroid has nothing to do with it. Still, I think that my doctor wants to medicate me to bring my TSH down, even though I am otherwise asymptomatic for hypothyroid. I'm so confused as to why this makes any sense!


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## MacKinnon

I just found this thread! I was dx with postpartum thyroiditis in April, DD was 3 months at the time. My dentist actually was the first to suggest hyperthyroid when I had a reaction to the epinephrine in the numbing shots. My TSH was 0.02 (ref. .4-5.5) and my T4 was 2.5 (ref. .8 -1.8). This was about a month ago. My labs from last week were apparently "worse" because they called to see if I had weaned yet (!!) because I am still very hyper and they think I might not be postpartum thyroiditis after all. I sent them a long email with the info from kellymom.com about what hyper meds and which isotopes are best if doing the RAIU scan are approved for use in a nursing mom. She (my endo) had previously stated that all hyper meds and scans were incompatible with breastfeeding and that I would not be able to treat the hyper while I was nursing. Despite this, she was actually very supportive of my nursing and encourged me to just wait and see if the thyroid levels began to normalize as I get further from the post-partum period. Any words of wisdom as I enter this breastfeeding/hyper path? My ds is only 4 months, I nursed DD to 2 1/2 years! I can't fathom weaning anytime soon and told my endo the earliest I could possible consider is at a year (Jan 08). Thoughts?


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## tanyalynn

Carrie, no personal experience (with hyper), but there are alternative ways to deal with thyroid problems. Various alternative-type medical people (some MDs, some like naturopaths or people who do acupuncture) treat thyroid problems in a different way. One place to look to see it from a nutrition standpoint is ithyroid.com. The writer became hyperthyroid and, being pretty nutrition and research-oriented, looked into minerals/vitamins. I did that approach for hypothyroid (both are covered in the website) and felt better, but now I'm working with a professional because I think there are a couple other things going on as well (not because of that, I think they were concurrent and now that the coldness and brain fog are better, I can see what's left). Anyway, I just wanted to say that there are alternative approaches that have helped people, and hopefully there's one out there that's compatible with breastfeeding. Take care.


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## amore74

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ilovemyavery* 
I was dx with postpartum thyroiditis in April, DD was 3 months at the time.

Hugs to you mama... I went through something similar.

First let me tell you that in my case, I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's disease when I got pregnant. I was hypo then but the endo told me that I could go hyper after the delivery. And that happened. So when DS was 3 months my TSH was like yours close to 0. They took me off synthroid but didn't put me on anything else because the endo knew that I would eventually go back to hypo. And it happened. 4 weeks later my TSH jumped to 97. So I was put back on synthroid.

I breastfed the whole time (although my endo said to stop doing it while I was hyper even though I wasn't taking any meds). I'm glad I didn't wean.

So my point is that you might want to see if you have thyroid antibodies (Hashimotos). If you do, then you might only be hyper for a while and then turn hypo. It's common to fluctuate from one to the other.

I just started seeing a DO that is very much into alternative medicine and he did a bunch of test to see what's behind all this. Candida, lack of certain minerals or vitamins...

Let me know how you do.


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## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Leersia* 
I just stumbled across this thread. I don't know if anyone can answer this for me, but my TSH has been only slightly elevated for two years now (6.5), and my T4 is normal. My mother has been hypothyroid since having me at age 25, and my TSH became elevated after having twins at age 35 - so there is definately a family history. I've been having some irregular bleeding, but I also have PCOS, so it is entirely possible that my thyroid has nothing to do with it. Still, I think that my doctor wants to medicate me to bring my TSH down, even though I am otherwise asymptomatic for hypothyroid. I'm so confused as to why this makes any sense!

I've done a lot of research into PCOS for a dear friend. The more I research hypothyroidism, the more I think it could be one of the root causes of PCOS.

The thyroid is "the master gland" it literally effects every cell in the body as well as your hormone production. Thyroid problems can indeed influence menses.

A TSH of 6.5 is not really mildly elevated when the new standard is that you should be under 3.


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## JaneS

Is anyone doing high iodine supplementation?

12.5mg/day for example. This site is a must read:
http://www.iodine4health.com/


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## Hera

Hi, I'm subbing...
I've got something going on that I suspect is involving my thyroid, adrenals, estrogen/progesterone balance or something like that, lol. I'm planning to see a doctor for a blood test. I have a lot of the hypo symptoms like eczema, thinning hair, weight gain and remaining overweight despite eating healthy foods in healthy amounts and getting exercise, fatigue, rage, low body temp (my normal is about 97.6 or so), new floaters in my vision, low-level depression, allergies, the itchy ear thing, but also including things like whiplash injury and high exposure to fluoride (my dentist took a look at my teeth and asked "where did you grow up???")

It seems to run in my family, my grandma had osteoporosis and my mom's TSH always comes out on the low end of normal, but she continues to have symptoms anyway. Apparently the supplement Thyodine has been very helpful for her, gets her up to the middle of normal and most symptoms disappear (although the hair hasn't grown back...but she is in her 60s). I'm thinking about starting Thyodine myself. Has anybody here tried that one? I'm also going to go back on vitex tincture for the progesterone issues.

This thread has been very informative, thank you all


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## JaneS

Thyodine is not by px?

Contains glandulars: "thyroid (100 mg)"

Is that equivalent to Armour?


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## flutemandolin

Hera- A lot of your symptoms sound so much like mine! Thinning hair, weight gain/unable to lose despite eating healthier than ever, low body temp, eye floaters (big time), mood swings, low level depression, etc. I had blood work done and TSH was 3 something, so I didn't get a prescription but I know something's not right. I've also been doing natural progesterone cream to try and balance hormones. What is the vitex tincture?

I've been researching over the counter thyroid supplements, and from what I understand they have to take out the thyroxine (T4) but they do have some T3, which is what I think I need. Most of them don't explicitly say they contain T3, so they must not be allowed to label it as such. I found one brand at my local health food store, so I've been taking it almost 2 weeks. I can't tell any difference yet, but it may take a while to get things going.

I've been so frustrated by all my symptoms and not getting any answers from a doctor!







: This thread has been the best information I've found so far.


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## Hera

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flutemandolin* 
I've also been doing natural progesterone cream to try and balance hormones. What is the vitex tincture?


Vitex doesn't actually contain any hormone-like chemicals (like dong quai or angelica, for example...those have phytoestrogens) but stimulates the pituitary. I've taken it in combination with motherwort before, after my first dd was born to get my cycle back regular, but in germany they use motherwort for hyperthyroid so I'm going to omit it this time.


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## bigknitwit

I just found this thread too. Glandulars have to have all hormone content removed, otherwise they have to be sold as a "drug" with a prescription, from what I understand.

I have been progressively hypo-thyroid for almost 10 years now. Finally this past year I decided it was time to pay more attention to this health condition that I had so far been neglecting. I had to switch to a new endocrinologist to get my anti-body levels checked (they are high = 495). The first one said "it doesn't matter whether or not you have antibodies, because the treatment is the same." Sigh. Then I started seeing a naturopath to get another perspective on this whole thyroid condition. She told me that in her experience, people with auto-immune issues often have some undiagnosed food allergies (often to a common allergen), so she recommended testing for me. It came back hugely positive to all forms of dairy, as well as eggs. This is interesting to me, because in the past year I had greatly increased my consumption of eggs and dairy, going to great lengths to find high quality sources of these foods. I had a difficult time balancing my thyroid meds post-partum (my TSH went up to 34 at 3 months pp and I was a zombie). My dose was finally increased to 200mcg at which point my TSH came down to 0.4. So apparently I have pretty much no more functioning thyroid gland (something I didn't know prior to my research). I am hoping that by eliminating my allergens, my antibody levels will calm down a bit.

The naturopath also suggested running an ANA blood test to screen for other auto-immune conditions (you are more likely to have others when you have one). Mine came back positive with high antibody concentrations so I was referred to a rheumatologist. I am still waiting for the bloodwork results from him for lupus testing although I have no other overt symptoms of concern.

Also, my 4year old ds was also very recently diagnosed to have hashimoto's. His TSH was 6.1, and he was positive for antibodies as well. He just had allergy testing done, and we are waiting for his results. I'm guessing he has a similar allergy profile to me since we both have the same auto-immune disease going on.


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## moonlightinvt

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Is anyone doing high iodine supplementation?

12.5mg/day for example. This site is a must read:
http://www.iodine4health.com/

I am.

I started taking Iodoral (12.5 every other day) with Selenium and T3 (Cytomel) about a year ago when tests showed antibodies and low-functioning thyroid (I ordered tests at 6 mos pp when I was miserable!).

I'm not sure which of these, or combination of, worked but something did help for a few months. I slowly weaned myself off T3 and the stress of life took over and I stopped taking care of myself again and everything got worse.

I just recently (6 weeks) started taking a high-quality (not Rx) prenatal in a.m. and the iodoral and additional 100mg of Selenium in p.m. and I feel incredibly better. I have also added in the last couple weeks: Evening Primrose Oil, Cod Liver Oil (which I had already been taking when I remembered to, but am doing every day now), and Vitex tincture.

My reasons for these supplements is from various articles/conversations and my gut instinct that told me my hormones were out of whack and that I was probably deficient in certain vitamins and/or minerals (like VitB, D, copper, selenium, zinc...) that added to a system breakdown and snowball effect

Unfortunately, I can't afford any tests--but I am really curious as to where I am at. Symptom-wise, I feel much, much better and have a lot of energy (but bordering on having trouble sleeping) and have lost weight. My PMS is still awful but I am hoping the EPO and Vitex will help with that. My concern is I hope I have not gone hyper! Maybe I am just where I need to be and my insomnia is just due to the stress in my life. I hope, I hope, I hope. I am so sick of being sick!







:


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## Hera

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigknitwit* 
I just found this thread too. Glandulars have to have all hormone content removed, otherwise they have to be sold as a "drug" with a prescription, from what I understand.

I can't find anything to support this by googling, can you?

ETA OK, I re-read flutemandolin's post and googled again. Yes, she's right. They have T3 but not T4.

This supplement I'm taking has iodine from dulse and bladderwrack, as well as selenium and L-Tyrosine which is a T4 precursor. I've only taken it for two days so I can't say I see much of a difference, plus I've been much better about remembering my multivitamin (rainbow life) and the fish oil and probiotics. I haven't managed to track down any vitex locally yet, one more place to try before I order it.

Oddly enough my big floater is much, much smaller today. I didn't realize that those ever went away. Cool. I don't know if it has anything to do with the supplements, but I've had it for 2 or 3 months now. Overall, my eyesight seems much better. Colors are more saturated. I'm very happy about that.


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## greenmansions

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kewb* 
Hashimoto's. I was diagnosed at 13. Fortunately my mom noticed my goiter. This may also explain why I was such a late bloomer.

Symptom that led to diagnosis: Goiter
Treatment: I have been taking Synthroid since I was 15. I love my endo and have been seeing him since I was 13.

Other symptoms:
I have always had skin that leads towards dry.
Menstral Cycle when not on the pill was 28-31 days.
I used to always feel cold but after my first child that problem has gone away. I think I am peri-menopausal.
I chalk up my fatigue and lack of concentration to motherhood more than my thyroid.
Appetite: I feel hungry alot but my appetite did decrease when my dosage was changed at my last blood test.

Pill count: I have to order my pills by mail in order to get the 90 day count. It is so the insurance companies can earn more dollars.

This is just about the same as my story, tho I was diagnosed at age 12. We went on a family car trip for 3 weeks across the Southern and Eastern US, and I slept pretty much the whole way. My dad is a doctor, so he figured something was up and had me tested when we got home. I grew 3 inches and got my first period in the few months after I started taking Synthroid.

Now I take Levoxyl and Cytomel. The Cytomel seems to have made a big difference for me and my levels are very stable now, even when I was pregnant I did not need any adjustments. Before I added Cytomel I was more tired and foggy feeling. I also think I am perimenopausal and I am not as prone to being cold as I used to be.

The only way to get a full year's supply of your meds is to pay cash for them. Sometimes you can file with your insurance at the end of the year and get reimbursed, less copay amounts. Insurance won't pay for more than 30-90 days at a time in case you drop them. They don't want to lose money.


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## marlne

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Leersia* 
I just stumbled across this thread. I don't know if anyone can answer this for me, but my TSH has been only slightly elevated for two years now (6.5), and my T4 is normal. My mother has been hypothyroid since having me at age 25, and my TSH became elevated after having twins at age 35 - so there is definately a family history. I've been having some irregular bleeding, but I also have PCOS, so it is entirely possible that my thyroid has nothing to do with it. Still, I think that my doctor wants to medicate me to bring my TSH down, even though I am otherwise asymptomatic for hypothyroid. I'm so confused as to why this makes any sense!

Hi! I just found this thread.









I thought I read somewhere about hypothyroidism and PCOS being possibly related in some way, in some cases? I'll have to find it if I can.

My TSH has been only slightly elevated as well, since having my son 15mos ago. I had it tested because of how I was feeling and I was at 4.55. It was knocking me on my rear in all ways including new weight issues, even though I wasn't above a 5!
I have a doctor who agreed to see my printed papers with me regarding the newer levels to go by and put me on a low dose of synthroid. I have felt so much better!
I went through 4 miscarriages before having my little guy and I do suspect my thyroid levels for helping that happen too but I don't remember what my levels were and back then, I didn't know about the "new" range so I just thought all was okay there. I'll have to get access to my records to read what they were.

I've also read that if you are subclinical, you have a higher potential to actually become hypo in the future. That definately made me want to keep this under control and also I wanted to feel better.


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## chicmama

Just found this thread today! I haven't been able to read all the posts, skipped and skimmed most, as I am very excited to find support.

Diagnosed Aug. 06 at 5 months PP as I went in to dr. b/c I was sick with just a cold or something to the such. She found my thyroid to be enlarged, ran all the tests, and came back Hypothyroid caused by Hashimoto's. She referred me to an endicrinologist.

That's when I started doing research & found my symptoms as the following:

extreme exhaustion - thought it was mommyhood (first child)
hair falling out - thought it was PP
tingling feet -
memory loss - this had been going on during preg.
brain fog - horrible!
libido - none, still none to this day too
depressed/sad/anxious -
weight gain - was fine at the time but now I'm having a HARD time losing weight despite working out & eating healthy
Menstrual cycle - light flow, start spotting about 5 -7 days before my actual period so we're talking 2 weeks every 2 weeks. Prior to preg., I had OB diagnose me with a shortened luteul phase due to lack of progesterone, which she suggested for me to use the P. cream from Whole Foods. It totally worked & I had regular periods with no spotting and got preg. the first try. Now, I'm 15 mo. PP and am back to the 2 week/2 week cycle. I haven't tried the cream again b/c I'm nursing.

I'm on Synthroid and I've had several people say do not get on the generic. I'm interested in hearing more about Armour, although, Synthroid has really helped my symptoms and hormone levels.
*
Questions* - for Hera & Flutemandolin & anyone else who knows...

What's this about FLOATERS???? I did develop one in my left eye during pregnancy but now you're saying it's related to the thyroid???

What about this itchy ear thing? A month ago, my ears became really red & itchy...almost rashy or bumpy. Is that what you are talking about? I also have had an itchy scalp a couple of weeks after that. (Although that time period correlates when I tried taking Juice Plus.)

Thanks so much for starting this tribe!!


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## JaneS

Continuing my research on iodine, this is an excellent site recommended by my holistic registered dietician (who also has Hashimoto's)

http://www.helpmythyroid.com/iodine.htm


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## smokeylo

Hi -- I wanted to sub to this thread and introduce myself. I'm not a Mom yet, but we're starting to work on that







. I have long suspected I have a thyroid problem and will be making an appt to get this checked out.

It all started three years ago right after I got married. One of the most stressful semesters of my entire life ended, I got married, and during the honeymoon it was like my body went haywire. Starving, moody, completely indecisive... I chalked it up to hypoglycemia (I've never been tested for it, but diet modifications seem to keep it under control).

About a year later, my very regular period went wonky on me and I bled for about 10 days. I went to an ARNP associated with the OB clinic at my hospital, where they tested for hypothyroid (I have no idea what tests were run or what levels were) and came back 'fine' and was put on the pill to regulate my period (which retrospectively is really silly). I did some online research and wondered if I had adrenal fatigue or exhaustion from all the stress in the last year. The symptoms that I worried about have continued (will list below).

I stayed on the pill for 7 months but then quit because I hated the way it made me feel and wanted to know my body again. Since then I have ovulated regularly and have a healthy LP, but my bbt is low (96-97). I want to get pregnant fast once we start trying so I want to see if my thyroid might get in the way.

Anyway, here are my symptoms...

- Consistently low energy, easily fatigued, sleep plenty at night but don't feel rested next day. Nap more.
- Gained about 30 lbs in last 3 years. I have attributed this to very heavy drinking, but I am now 7 months sober and have not lost the weight.
- Hypoglycemic symptoms. I'm not sure if I'm "clinically" hypoglycemic, but by following the diet mods suggested for hypo (no white sugars/refined carbs, protein with every meal, eat every 4 hours or so) I do pretty well. My symptoms seem to get a lot worse with stress or PMS.
- Inability to concentrate, generally flaky/foggy. This seems worse and worse since I started graduate school 3 years ago. Up until now I've been a top notch student, but my motivation and ability to focus is terrible. I have attributed this to depression in the past.
- Intense mood swings. I am very, very irritable, and my mood turns on a dime from content to malaise to annoyance to weepy. This is worse around PMS. I'm very impatient and pissy. Generally I feel like I did when I was 11/12 and going through the worst of puberty. I HATE IT! GO AWAY PUBERTY! BTDT! <-- See?? Moody!







:
- My feet and hands fall asleep easily, even if only slightly elevated. This problem has become a lot worse in recent years... I can't sit with my legs folded or on the floor, and can't have my hands up by my chest if I'm sleeping.
- Periods are regular and I seem to be ovulating, but bbt is low (96-97 generally, rarely breaking 98). Horrendous cramps during period, heavy flow first 2 days, and mild nausea (and attendant moodiness). PMS worsening but not AWFUL.

I found a local doc on that site that recommends thyroid docs. I will call Monday and hopefully make an appointment. I've been wondering lately if I had a sex hormone imbalance (like estrogen dominance), but maybe all of these things are tied together through my thyroid and the screening they did 3 years ago was just TSH. I plan to go in and ask for a full spectrum of tests... I don't want to drag this out, if I have thyroid problems I want to get it figured out so I can have a baby and not drive my husband insane!


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## calicocj

chicmama - re: synthroid, that is what I am on, and it works great for me, but a lot of people do use Armour. Armour is a natural hormone and Synthroid is synthetic. I am not sure that there is a 'generic' thyroid med, but there are different brands, and I think the big issue is that once you get titrated on one, you shouldn't just switch to a different brands w/o having your levels checked and being re-titrated, if needed (this is because subtle differences in the formulations among the synthetics can cause larger differences in their effect on your body)

smokeylo - I think it is a good idea to get the full panel (they'll do sex hormones too) before trying to get PG, especially since hypo is associated with increased risk of miscarriage. Also because it will give you a baseline to compare if you need to get re-tested after having a baby (since pregnancy can cause your thyroid function to change drastically)


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## tanyalynn

Smokeylo-Some of your symptoms really do sound like adrenal issues. But it's very possible to have both thyroid and adrenal problems at the same time. I don't know how much MDs diagnose adrenal problems--I am getting the impression that it's more for alternative-type medical people. After getting a hypothyroid problem under control this year, and yet still not feeling right (my body temp went up, from the 95-96F range, to the 97F range, yet my normal used to be 98.6), and seeing what looked like estrogen/progesterone imbalances, and still being tired (just not as tired as I used to be), I found someone (in my case, someone who does acupuncture and nutrition/supplement type stuff) who I'm working with on the adrenal stuff. For me, it's bad enough that I know I couldn't get pregnant now if I wanted to (my LP is only 6 days at the moment, and it used to be ~14d), but all my stuff hit me during my pregnancy. Wow, I felt miserable. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy (well, maybe my worst, but only when I'm feeling vengeful), so I think looking into everything and making sure you feel really good are really important before TTC. I hope you get answers that satisfy you.

Not sure if you've done other reading, but low-level hypothyroidism is also associated with lower IQs in the baby, and can make pregnancy miserable--nausea/vomiting throughout the pregnancy, horrible fatigue, things like that. I remember the nausea/vomiting because I had it throughout my 2nd pregnancy, but not my first, and, well, yuck.

For me, I've gone the alternative route and I'm not taking prescription medicine (for the thyroid or the adrenal, although my acupuncturist says the adrenal problem may be bad enough that she'll find someone locally who can prescribe glandular meds--depends on how I feel with the supplements she's recommended), so you have options. Depends on which way feels right to you. Good luck.


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## smokeylo

Tanya, Thanks for your insights. I plan to do that eye test thing to see if I do have an adrenal issue. I'll see a GP next week to get some bloodwork done, but if it's inconclusive or clearly not my thyroid, I'll find a holistic practitioner for some advice about dealing with the adrenal issue. Whatever the deal is, I hope it becomes clearer after my appt with the GP so I can have a course of action, feel better, and be comfortable trying to get pregnant.


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## tanyalynn

There was an online questionnaire, I found it by googling 'adrenal fatigue mild moderate severe'. Um.. here's the link below. I took it after I talked with the chiro and acupuncturist, and it made some things clearer--like oh, the way I feel in x, y, and z ways is all related. It never occurred to me that I had any problem other than the thyroid, so when I didn't feel better, I was slow on the uptake that I should keep looking (and being slow if I were hoping to get pregnant soon would be a real drag).

http://fallonpharmacy.com/adrenaltest.pdf


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## smokeylo

Tanya,
Thank you thank you thank you! I did the "eye test" and took this quiz today. I definitely failed the eye test - pupils were going haywire (but I'm not sure how valid this test is?). On the quiz, I scored moderate adrenal fatigue with severe severity (if that makes sense... not experiencing tons of symptoms, but those I have are very strong).

I have an appointment on Monday to have my thyroid checked, and if that isn't the source of the problem then I will start working on adrenal fatigue as the problem. What sorts of care providers do any of you consult to deal with adrenal fatigue? I'm open to complementary/alternative medicine but haven't ever seen someone. I live in a pretty crunchy town so I'm sure I could find someone, I just want to hear others' experiences.

Thanks again!


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## cmp03

Hi - I actually haven't been on this thread since January. Been so busy with work and traveling that I can't seem to get anythign done.

At that time I was swtiched from Syntroid to Armour (my levels were normal on Synthroid but I just didn't feel right). Lukily I have a great GP who recommended Armour. I also had extremely low Iron levels so I am on iron supplements as well (but you are not supposed to take them at the same time).

Well, its been a few months but I still feel great. Even though I still wake 2-3 times a night with my daughter I am not nearly as bad (sypmtoms wise) as I was a few months ago. I just wanted to let everyone know how much being switched to Armour helped out w/the hypo symptoms I was still feeling.

Good luck to everyone!


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## tanyalynn

Hi Smokeylo, I don't have a wide repertoire of alternative care providers. I'm seeing someone who does acupuncture and nutritional/herbal supplements, and the chiropractor seemed comfortable with treating it as well, but I had to choose between the two and I chose the acupuncturist (my first time with acupuncture, but I've got to say wow, it's strange but I like it).

I get the impression that a lot of different types of alternative care providers are able to deal with it, and it's a matter of a) finding one you like and can talk easily with, and b) liking their approach. If I were looking (and I may be soon, my acupuncture lady is moving away







: ) I'd go to Finding Your Tribe and either search old threads or start a new one asking about alternative care in general and adrenal stuff in particular.

There are at least a couple other threads on adrenal fatigue and some really knowledgeable folks. I'm really new with it (but starting to feel better, earlier than I expected), so I'm not the best resource. Good luck!


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## 98741

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmp03* 
At that time I was swtiched from Syntroid to Armour (my levels were normal on Synthroid but I just didn't feel right). Lukily I have a great GP who recommended Armour. I also had extremely low Iron levels so I am on iron supplements as well (but you are not supposed to take them at the same time).

Well, its been a few months but I still feel great. Even though I still wake 2-3 times a night with my daughter I am not nearly as bad (sypmtoms wise) as I was a few months ago. I just wanted to let everyone know how much being switched to Armour helped out w/the hypo symptoms I was still feeling.

Good luck to everyone!

How was this transition for you? Was it fairly easy or was there a lot of tweaking of levels?

I'm pregnant and nursing and am seeing a new doc to look into Armour. I just don't feel like the levothyroxine is getting me to "normal" and want to try Armour. Well I got this appointment a couple months ago before the pregnancy but I don't want to cancel it. Is it possible/safe/realistic to make this transition at this time? Thanks for any feedback anyone has!!


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## babygrant

So i'm back on 25 mg of synthroid for now to see if that little boost helps me out. GP said that my levels are within normal range...but they could be a bit high for me.

Anyone know of diet that helps with hypothyroid? I take a good quality multi-vitamin and B complex vitmains.


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## smokeylo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *babygrant* 
So i'm back on 25 mg of synthroid for now to see if that little boost helps me out. GP said that my levels are within normal range...but they could be a bit high for me.

Anyone know of diet that helps with hypothyroid? I take a good quality multi-vitamin and B complex vitmains.

I've read that Evening Primrose Oil can support thyroid function. I take it for conception purposes but if it also works there, no harm done!


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## cmp03

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sarahn4639* 
How was this transition for you? Was it fairly easy or was there a lot of tweaking of levels?

I'm pregnant and nursing and am seeing a new doc to look into Armour. I just don't feel like the levothyroxine is getting me to "normal" and want to try Armour. Well I got this appointment a couple months ago before the pregnancy but I don't want to cancel it. Is it possible/safe/realistic to make this transition at this time? Thanks for any feedback anyone has!!

Transition was easy. I had been on the 88 Syntroid for years and all through my pregnancy. Izzy was born 6/29/06 and at my 6 week appointment my levels were low (TSH .3) so dr lowered me to 50 of synthroid. I think they didnt need to adjust my rate and thats part of why I felt like crap (level went up to above 1.0 but still in the normal range). I am taking 1 grain of it and my level are(for TSH) are about .9 now (and have been since december). They have not tweaked it at all.

I personally did not notice any side effects (except for the pill have a smell an my dog ate 80 of them one night so I have to keep them locked up now).

I can not help with the pregnant/breastfeeding things b/c I was not doing either at the time of the switch.

Good Luck. It made a huge difference for me so now I recommend it to everyone.


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## JaneS

*IODINE*

I've been on a little iodine research project lately. And I'm blown away yet again by how much a crucial mineral is devalued by conventional wisdom.

The physiologic dose of iodine is now thought to be a minimum of 12.5 mg.

That's in milligrams people. The RDA is 150-290 MICROgrams.

12.5 mg closely resembles the average intake of Japanese of 13.8 mg, a society with much less thyroid disorders and certain cancers as described below.

Iodized salt is not a good source. Real sea salt is good but not sufficient. Kelp is the seaweed highest in iodine and for example, you would need approx. 1 teaspoon a day of www.seaveg.com kelp to get 12.5 mg.

*Both hypothyroidism and hyperthyroidism can be caused by or greatly influenced by iodine deficiency. Iodine should be considered as a first step of any thyroid treatment plan.*

If you are deficient in iodine, doses upwards of 50mg/day for several months are suggested. Testing can be done with loading dose and 24 hr urine collection. When most of the iodine is excreted (over 90%), this signifies that the body has sufficiently stored enough and then you can drop down depending on symptoms and history.

The thyroid and the breasts store the most iodine but there are also receptors in stomach (influencing stomach acidity), salivary glands, gastrointestinal tract, prostate, bones, connective tissues, etc. Women with larger breast need more. There is strong correlation with iodine deficiency and breast, ovarian, prostate and other cancers.

The thyroid has "first pick" of dietary iodine, so the other body tissues can be the first to suffer in times of deficiency.

And like most nutrients, I'm discovering on this WAPF journey, it's likely that all of us are deficient, the severity only in part depending on our past eating habits. It's very hard to get what our body really needs without specifically planning for it, and you may need a whole lot more than optimal levels to "restock your body" if you are deficient.

I got Dr. Brownstein's book on iodine, but most of his info is on web. Brownstein, Abraham and Flechas are at the forefront of orthoiodosupplementation, the term for physiological doses of iodine.

http://iodine4health.com/ortho/ortho.htm
http://www.drbrownstein.com/
http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/opt_Research_I.shtml
http://www.helpmythyroid.com/

Guy Abraham developed Iodoral, a tablet form of traditional Lugol's solution.

**If you know anyone with breast cancer or has a strong possibility of developing it based on family history, Brownstein's iodine book is a must read. **

The other issues with high iodine supplementation is that if you have a selenium deficiency, that can aggravate the problem. One seems to need the other when it is increased.

Also iodine detoxs the toxic halogens (bromine, chlorine, fluoride, perchlorate, etc.) and also lead and mercury. Detox symptoms can appear with high iodine supplemenation. Vitamin C is one essential nutrient for neutralizing this, and C also enables the body's iodine receptors.


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## JaneS

I can't go into more diet and nutritional support of thyroid beyond iodine right now but I have also done a lot of research on that lately too. Remind me if I don't come back.


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## formerluddite

great links jane!

plus you reminded me to do a patch test.


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## tanyalynn

Jane, I've read that iodine is one of the few minerals that goes through into breastmilk at high rates if mom consumes high amounts. Since it can detox mercury (and yeah, I wish I'd known that 8 months ago when I was taking high amounts to help with my thyroid problem), do you know if the mercury goes through with the iodine? What I mean is, do they get chemically attached, or was more mercury just floating around my body in general?

OT-Thanks for the advice in the other thread in Dental, I got back to you but it took a while--I've been more offline than not lately.


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## zane

iodine and Hashimoto's thyroiditis

Quote:

Hashimoto's and Extra Iodine

"I remain puzzled as to why I have Hashimoto's disease and wonder if it is at all possible that my long-term use of Betadine Shampoo (iodine shampoo) might have been a factor&#8230;I wonder if I should stop using the shampoo?" -- JB, Albany, NY

Iodine can have profound effects upon the thyroid. Small amounts of iodine such as that found in iodized salt are not problematic, but high exposures from Betadine shampoo, Betadine douches, Betadine or other iodine-containing antiseptics applied to the skin, kelp tablets, seaweeds, and some iodine-containing medications may all be problematic. The effects that high levels of iodine have on the thyroid and thyroid function depend upon the underlying thyroid problem.

In areas of the world where there is still iodine deficiency, iodine will reduce goiter and correct hypothyroidism. There is no iodine deficiency in the United States.

Untreated Hashimoto's disease is made worse by high doses of iodine. Goiters may enlarge and hypothyroidism may become more pronounced. However, once levothyroxine is started, there is little adverse effect from the addition of iodine.

Iodine may cause hyperthyroidism especially with patients with an underlying nodular goiter.

Interestingly, the addition of iodine to the food supply to prevent iodine deficiency goiter may well have increased the prevalence of Hashimoto's disease in the United States. Western Europe, which in general has not added iodine to the food supply, has a lower prevalence of Hashimoto's disease, but a higher prevalence of nodular goiter and follicular thyroid cancer.
http://www.tsh.org/askthedoctor/extraiodine.html

Quote:

5 Lies About Your Thyroid You're Likely to Hear
4. If You Have a Thyroid Problem, Take Iodine or Kelp

Nnatural health practitioners who don't truly understand thyroid function are often quick to tell you that "thyroid problems mean you need iodine" or iodine-containing herbs or supplements, such as kelp, bladderwrack and bugleweed.

If you are truly iodine deficient, iodine may be able to help your thyroid. One study done in 1998 found that over the past twenty years, the percentage of Americans with low intake of iodine has more than quadrupled. Currently about 12 percent of the U.S. population is iodine deficient, up from less than 3 percent in the early 1970s. So, for some people, iodine deficiency may be a factor in their thyroid problem.

But for some people, iodine or iodine-containing products make worsen autoimmune thyroid problems, both Hashimoto's and Graves' disease, and cause enlargement of the thyroid (goiter). Before you start iodine, consider having urinary iodine measured to see if you have an actual deficiency, and pay close attention to any symptoms that develop after you start to take iodine.
http://thyroid.about.com/od/thyroidb...01/a/5lies.htm

I am confused.


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## beanma

it's my understanding that iodine is also present in vegetables (and maybe fruits, nuts) grown in soil that is not deficient in iodine. i think in the midwest the soil does not have much naturally occuring iodine, but near the coasts iodine is usually present. this is all going on memory, though, and i haven't researched it recently. i did do some research on selenium not too long ago. if you eat locally you can google your state name +"soil" +"iodine" or +"selenium" and probably get an idea about whether veggies grown in your area have some of these nutrients.

i'm hesitant about adding extra iodine into my diet since i do live in a coastal state, do eat locally, do eat seafood, and enjoy nori, too. i also do use iodized salt or sea salt sometimes.

ETA: here's an interesting/curiosity link -- http://www.wistv.com/global/story.as...Type=Printable


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## truelife

Has anyone tried the Natural Sources Raw Thyroid, All Adrenal, or Raw Pituitary? I was on all three for a couple weeks, saw a huge difference but then stopped. Now my nutritionist is saying that I just need to be on liver support (no gall bladder) and that will take care of everything. I'm also taking a B Complex and Cod Liver Oil.

Link: http://www.evitamins.com/product_grid.asp?brandid=Natural+Sources
I know that I have a major thyroid issue but cannot afford all of the testing (no insurance right now). My list of symptoms goes on and on and on.

TIA - this thread has been SO VERY HELPFUL!


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## MamaMonica

I have subclinical Hashimotos- high antibodies but normal TSH, free Ts. The web info. is very contradictory and I want to make sure I'm getting good care. My symptoms also seem both hypo and hyper in spite of good thyroid function tests. Is this possible? I would assume one of the blood tests would have picked up a swing.


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## beachbuminthecity

Sometimes you can have thyroid problems but not show up in tests. You need a doctor that will treat you by your symptoms. Here is a very helpful site:

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/supplements


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## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Jane, I've read that iodine is one of the few minerals that goes through into breastmilk at high rates if mom consumes high amounts. Since it can detox mercury (and yeah, I wish I'd known that 8 months ago when I was taking high amounts to help with my thyroid problem), do you know if the mercury goes through with the iodine? What I mean is, do they get chemically attached, or was more mercury just floating around my body in general?

OT-Thanks for the advice in the other thread in Dental, I got back to you but it took a while--I've been more offline than not lately.

I haven't looked into the Hg stuff yet, sorry! I don't know if Abrahams research addresses it: http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/opt_Research_I.shtml


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## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zane* 
iodine and Hashimoto's thyroiditis

http://www.tsh.org/askthedoctor/extraiodine.html

http://thyroid.about.com/od/thyroidb...01/a/5lies.htm

I am confused.

I recommend you read my links. I have the benefit of being introduced to this by my holistic dietican who has Hashimoto's so my initial reticence was overcome in that way. The researchers in The Iodine Project are finding that over 90% people are being tested as deficient with the urine/Iodoral loading test. I don't know what the test is that is being referred to in the About.com thyroid info. With the urine test, the body will spill out what it doesn't need. If you are not spilling it out, you need it as there are receptors all over the body, not just the thyroid.

One thing that can happen with Hashimoto's and high iodine as I understand it is also having a selenium deficiency which is not addressed.

I have a big problem with Mary Shomon of About.com and her view of high iodine supplementation based only on her personal experience with it. She didn't seem to research it beyond that and seems unaware of the fact that she could have either been detoxing bromides and/or heavy metals or been selenium deficient and that is why she felt badly on it.


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## neveryoumindthere

~diagnosed with postpartum thyroiditis *after* it got 'better'

i'm still feeling hypo but getting someone to listen to me is like ramming my head thru a wall.

_anyway, I wanted to know if there are any vegetarian and/or kosher/halal (ie. bovine or sheep maybe, NOT porcine) sources of t3 and t4_

my tsh was in the "normal" range last I saw the endo (who was very condescending and laughing at silly old me who was reading up on the net) but my free t3's and free t4's are at the very bottom of the ranges..

we have a strong family history..mom, grandma, all 7 aunts, several cousins


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## truelife

Quote:


Originally Posted by *neveryoumindthere* 
~diagnosed with postpartum thyroiditis *after* it got 'better'

i'm still feeling hypo but getting someone to listen to me is like ramming my head thru a wall.

_anyway, I wanted to know if there are any vegetarian and/or kosher/halal (ie. bovine or sheep maybe, NOT porcine) sources of t3 and t4_

my tsh was in the "normal" range last I saw the endo (who was very condescending and laughing at silly old me who was reading up on the net) but my free t3's and free t4's are at the very bottom of the ranges..

we have a strong family history..mom, grandma, all 7 aunts, several cousins

The Natural Source glandular supplements that I posted about a few posts back are made from bovine. I was wondering if anyone else has had success taking them. My nutritionist (also a family friend) can sometimes flake on me and doesn't want me to stay on them long-term b/c he would rather have me on liver support - which he says will take care of the thyroid, adrenal, and pituitary glands.


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## JaneS

NUTRITION AND HYPOTHYROIDISM

*Selenium*
Together with Iodine, the most important mineral for thyroid function. Best food source is Brazil nuts which are quite high.

Quote:

Selenium activates an enzyme - hepatic type I iodothyronine deiodinase - that is responsible for controlling thyroid function by the conversion of T4 to T3. This enzyme... is sensitive to selenium deficiency.

Some researchers and practitioners are beginning to believe that selenium deficiency alone can trigger autoimmune thyroid disease.

Keep intake 200-400mcg/day.

(from Mary Shomon's book)
Wonder how many Hypos are actually just selenium deficient?

Or hypos on medication that do not see a relief in symptoms are simply selenium (and iodine) deficient?

*Iodine*
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...&postcount=272
*
Vitamin A*
A deficiency in vit. A can inhibit thyroid hormone production.
http://www.ithyroid.com/vitamin_a.htm

High vitamin cod liver oil is best source. www.westonaprice.org

Personally I would take a larger dosage than 10,000 IU (1 tsp/day) unless on a traditional diet that supplies a lot of other sources of A. Traditional diets contained an average of 50,000 IU of A/day. As with any nutrient, I'm finding if you are deficient, you need much more than even optimal amounts to restock your body stores.

*
B Vitamins*
Many Bs are critical for thyroid function including B2, Niacin, B6 (which helps convert iodine to thyroid hormone) and B12. They are also highly correlated with mood and very much depleted in stressful times.

Food sources are best. I take both desiccated liver www.drrons.com and brewer's yeast http://www.lewis-labs.com/products/brewersyeast.htm
*
Vitamin D*

Quote:

...necessary in order for the pituitary gland to produce thyroid hormone and may play a role in T3 binding to its receptor. Vitamin D is part of the necessary supporting apparatus that enables the deiodinase enzyme to convert T4 into T3. (from Mary Shomon's book "Living Well with Hypothryoidism"
Many many people are vitamin D deficient. Mercola, Krispin Sullivan and the Weston Price foundation have good information on this. Studies show that during winter people need 10x the RDA of D to keep their blood levels up! (And most fascinating to me is that this was likely the amount that traditional diets contained also.)

The best thing to do is test your blood levels and get a 25 (OH) D test. You should be in high normal range. If you do supplement vitamin D, get a natural form made from cod liver oil, this is very important. The D2 vegan form is toxic. I've used Carlson's natural D pills before but high vitamin cod liver oil will give you both best source of A and D. Radiant Life or Blue Ice.

*
Zinc*
Another essential mineral and involved in T3 conversion. Essential depression fighting nutrient as well (see Amanda Rose's website).
*
Magnesium*
After reading about how critical it is, and how depleted our soils are (and thus our food) I think everyone needs to supplement magnesium. Low mag. also reduces T4. Best food sources are nuts and seeds and homemade bone broths.

http://www.krispin.com/magnes.html
http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/magnesium.htm

*Tyrosine*
The thyroid hormones T3 and T4 refers to the amino acid tyrosine bound with 3 molecules of iodine or 4 molecules of iodine... it's critical. One can be deficient in amino acids for many reasons: not eating enough protein. Or interestingly enough, a high simple carb diet: if you are raising your blood sugar several times throughout the day, beneficial amino acids get sweeped out of your bloodstream by insulin as well as the excess sugar.

More on that in _The Mood Cure_ by Julia Ross, a protein defiency is the true reason for low seratonin in the brain ... not a lack of SSRI's! I also know that adaquate *digestion* of proteins into their individual building blocks, amino acids, with good amounts of stomach acid is essential for this to happen as well. Tums and other acid inhibitors cause a multitude of other problems.

The other key to all of this is the fact that low thyroid inihibits your digestive function as it inhibits many enzyme reactions throughout the body. If your digestion is not working well, you can't absorb your nutrients well either!

Enzyme inhibition also results in such wide ranging symptoms as constipation and dry hair/skin... the blocking of creating certain essential fatty acids because the enzymes to do so aren't working is one reason why evening primrose oil is recommended.


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## fishface

Sorry for the cross-post, I didn't see this thread til I made my own thread.

Hypothyroidism -- what were your symptoms?

I'm trying super hard not to self-diagnose myself incorrectly (or at all) but I am wondering if perhaps I have hypothyroidism. My living situation just changed and I eat a LOT less and much better food (organics and real meals, not college campus crap like I had been eating) plus I am on the go all day long AND I go to the gym. I've not lost any weight. (I've gained ~20 in the past year ) I also wake up 1-2 times a night and have crappy sleep from about 5am-7:30am.

What were your symptoms? I am going in for my annual pelvic next month but it's at Planned Parenthood; I'm trying to decide if I should find a GP near where I live now and go in about this.


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## babygrant

I was just coming to bump this for ya.


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## fishface

Thanks!!!!


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## naupakamama

Is there a "best" time of day to get my thyroid tested? Are there normal ebbs during the day or around eating for instance. Last time I came back normal despite having just about all the symptoms for hypo and a family history of it.


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## momtoNatalee

My Dr recently told me I was borderline hypo.

It all started when I was driving down the road one day, I was in what I thought was perfect health....I started to feel like I was dying/having a heart attack etc... Went to the ER and they started doing a bunch of stuff to me put me on oxygen/EKG etc.. etc.. they did blood work, cat scan on my heart, also x rays on my heart.... those came back normal, the sent me home to follow up with my Dr....I realize now that HAD to be a panic attack (I suspected it at the time, but my Dr told me it wasnt....whatver!) So when I went to my follow up appt with ALL my test results from the ER in my hand including blood work, he looked it over said I am just fine and prescribed me a beta blocker (YES, no joke) Lexapro, and some more xanax....anyway I never ened up taking the Toprol (beta blocker) or Lexapro (well I broke down and tried it for a month and then quite. When I went to my follow appt and asked him to look farther into the underlying cause of my elevated heartrate (its always in the 100-130 range) and ALL the other symptoms, told him I didnt want to be on beta blockers...he basically flipped and said I need to go to a Phycologist and cardiologist.......anyway, I will NEVER walk back in his office again!

I found another Dr that I really like and he is somewhat holistic and is into homeopathy.....he ordered more blood work and my T3 result was low (if that is what you call it) so he told me to start taking enzymatic therapy(the thyroid formula) also my cholesterol is a little high. I had an ECHO done and I am guessing the results from that came back fine b/c they never called. And I am going for a PFT on the 28th b/c of my chest pain, which is even worse when I exercise...

these are my symptoms (not sure if these are all related to Hypothyroidism or not?

no energy
feel like I could sleep all day
low grade depression
high cholesterol
Inability to concentrate or read long periods of time
Forgetfulness
Foggy thinking
unexplained weight gain
very heavy and painful periods
Nausea
Aching bones/muscles
Exhaustion in every dimension-physical, mental, spiritual, emotional
Complete lack of motivation
Extremely crabby, irritable, intolerant of others
*Major anxiety/worry*
Ringing in ears
Blood Pressure problems
dizzy feeling alot of the day

I go back for my follow up appt the first of July, I also started taking Wellbutrin (my choice after spending hours reasearching and thinking) b/c of the depression/anxiety symptoms....I am hoping soon I wont have to take xanax or Wellbutrin at all.....the xanax I really only need when I am going to drive..

I am also on 3000mg per day fish oil
I *think* 1000mg magnesium
A mult. vitamin


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## heritagesewing

Hi!
I'm pretty sure I've been hypo for years, but since my daughter was born (she's 2.5) my body has gone haywire. I finally found someone online who showed me the correct tests to get done. They do show that I'm hypo (My TSH is highly sensitive), as well as my ferratin is <4 and I'm vitamin D deficient. My estrogen is also very low.
The first doctor I went to told me there was nothing wrong with me. Since she was an intern, she had to check with the "real" doctor before finishing our visit. She came back in the room and told me that I *was* hypothyroid (Hashimoto's) but she wasnt going to treat me.







She had a real chip on her shoulder after she found out she was wrong.
She also refused to treat my vitamin deficiencies or estrogen. She said she "could", but she "wasnt going to".
So now I'm going to see a (hopefully) better specialist next month.

What I wanted to know was whether or not I should worry about what meds they may put me on (I'm assuming Armour or Synthroid) since I'm still nursing my daughter. Even though she's 2.5, she still nurses ALOT.
Will the thyroid meds affect her thyroid function or hormones?

I really cant wait to feel better. I'm so fatigued and tired all the time. Its even physical pain in my joints.

Thanks for any help!


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## AlexisT

Has anyone else had problems post-preg?

I've been low-level hypo for years. During pregnancy they tested my levels and upped me from 50mcg to 100mcg levothyroxine.

Now, I'm exhausted, I'm pulling giant clumps of hair out of the shower drain, and I've gained 2 stone. When I had my wisdom teeth out a few weeks ago, the nurse told me to go see my GP as my BP was 160/100 half an hour after the sedation woke up (I've not had a chance to go, stupid NHS appointment system means my GP has no routine appointments available for ages).

At first I thought high BP would mean my dose needed to be lowered and the other symptoms didn't fit--but I just looked it up again, and hypo can also cause raised BP. Is this likely to be it? And should I push for an endocrinology referral to see if anything else is wrong?


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## fishface

I am cranky/crabby as ALL GET OUT and it's gotten much worse in the past year. (which, in hindsight, corresponds with my weight gain). I have such a low tolerance being pestered/annoyed. I hope it's something that's fixable and not just a part of my personality. I hate it.







:


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## NocturnalDaze

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoNatalee* 

these are my symptoms (not sure if these are all related to Hypothyroidism or not?

no energy
feel like I could sleep all day
low grade depression
high cholesterol
Inability to concentrate or read long periods of time
Forgetfulness
Foggy thinking
unexplained weight gain
very heavy and painful periods
Nausea
Aching bones/muscles
Exhaustion in every dimension-physical, mental, spiritual, emotional
Complete lack of motivation
Extremely crabby, irritable, intolerant of others
*Major anxiety/worry*
Ringing in ears
Blood Pressure problems
dizzy feeling alot of the day

Every single one of those symptoms are Hypo and/or adrenal fatigue

Nausea and complete exhaustion are symptoms of adrenal fatigue.

Do you have shaking too?

I bet you have trouble sleeping at night? Either can't fall asleep or wake up and can't go back to sleep?


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## NocturnalDaze

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fishface* 
I am cranky/crabby as ALL GET OUT and it's gotten much worse in the past year. (which, in hindsight, corresponds with my weight gain). I have such a low tolerance being pestered/annoyed. I hope it's something that's fixable and not just a part of my personality. I hate it.







:

I had that really bad too. It went away when I finally got on the right dosage of Armour. I used to snap at my poor husband for everything. Now I'm actually calm. I can have 6 different things going on in the kitchen at once and I don't freak out!


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## momtoNatalee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NocturnalDaze* 
Every single one of those symptoms are Hypo and/or adrenal fatigue

Nausea and complete exhaustion are symptoms of adrenal fatigue.

Do you have shaking too?

I bet you have trouble sleeping at night? Either can't fall asleep or wake up and can't go back to sleep?


yep yep! the shaking has gotten better lately......

I CANNOT fall asleep at night unless I have some wine, no joke!


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## NocturnalDaze

It definitely sounds like your adrenals are shot too. I think you need stronger thyroid support, probably Armour. Most people don't do all that well on over the counter treatments.

You also likely need adrenal support. Possibly licorice or maybe something stronger. Like I said before, I've been taking Hydrocortisone in low doses which replaces the cortisone that my body is not making. I haven't felt this good in YEARS! I actually have energy. I go to bed and fall asleep at night, I don't lay there for hours anymore. I actually want to go to bed at night. I used to stay up until 4 in the morning because I couldn't make myself go to bed.

Once you start thyroid meds you will likely not need the Wellbutrin anymore. My depression has finally gone away after years of depression ranging from low grade to suicidal.


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## NocturnalDaze

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heritagesewing* 
What I wanted to know was whether or not I should worry about what meds they may put me on (I'm assuming Armour or Synthroid) since I'm still nursing my daughter. Even though she's 2.5, she still nurses ALOT.
Will the thyroid meds affect her thyroid function or hormones?

I think you should push for Armour over Synthroid.
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com...eds-dont-work/

Thyroid meds are perfectly safe while nursing. They are just replacing the hormones that your body should have already.


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## aniT

My ND has me on this:
http://www.metagenics.com/products/detail.asp?pid=136

And while i am loosing weight and am not as tired.. my muscles and bones still ache. I wonder if my ND can write scripts for Armour...

My mom had her thyroid eradicated about 15 years ago. Well for the last month she has been totally loopy. I even asked her if she had a change in medication when she went off on my 13 year old for (I wont say no reason) only a slight provocation. In short she majorly over reacted. She has also been going nutso on DH. DH told me to just let her yell at him because he can ignore her and it wasn't worth the war it caused when I told her she was being ridiculous.

So she calls me today and tells me she has figured out why she has been so tired lately. (this is the first I have heard of it.) Said she has been taking like three naps a day. When she get her medication refill she noticed her synthroid had been pushed to the back of the cupboard and she hadn't taken it in a month.







: I said so THAT is why you have been so crabby lately.. I haven't been crabby I am just tired of other peoples sh!t.







: Yea ok ... let's talk when your medication kicks back in.


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## momtoNatalee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NocturnalDaze* 
It definitely sounds like your adrenals are shot too. I think you need stronger thyroid support, probably Armour. Most people don't do all that well on over the counter treatments.

You also likely need adrenal support. Possibly licorice or maybe something stronger. Like I said before, I've been taking Hydrocortisone in low doses which replaces the cortisone that my body is not making. I haven't felt this good in YEARS! I actually have energy. I go to bed and fall asleep at night, I don't lay there for hours anymore. I actually want to go to bed at night. I used to stay up until 4 in the morning because I couldn't make myself go to bed.

Once you start thyroid meds you will likely not need the Wellbutrin anymore. My depression has finally gone away after years of depression ranging from low grade to suicidal.


Thanks, looking foward to my follow up appt., wonder if my Dr would prescribe something like to me? I guess it cant hurt to ask, I just want to feel NORMAL again


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## momtoNatalee

Does anyone know if it's possible if you can still have adrenal fatigue and your cortisol level still be within normal range?


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## moonlightinvt

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AlexisT* 
Has anyone else had problems post-preg?

For those that are having hypo-like symptoms after a pregnancy & during lactation, IMHO I would first give your body time to recover...balance hormone levels, maintain adequate vitamin and mineral intake, support your immune functioning.

A post-partum body has been through a lot of stress and will continue to do so while lactating and once again beginning menses (not to mention psychological stress which is a factor in thyroid functioning).

Based on my research and experience since having pp problems (starting almost 2 yrs ago and being tested to show low-functioning thyroid and Hashimoto's), I have found several things to help get me back in balance and feeling sooooo much better. I had most of the typical hypo symptoms and now most are completely gone (except when going thru a highly stressful time when I am not taking proper care of myself).

I am not entirely sure which choices I made in my own care led me to feeling better. Was it one or a combination? I can only tell you what I did.

1) I read A LOT about thyroid conditions, hormone imbalances, vitamin/mineral deficiencies...
2) I take supplemental iodine (Iodoral)
3) I take supplemental selenium with the iodine
4) I take a food-based prenatal every morning (Rainbow Lt. ONE)
5) Cod-liver oil every day
6) Evening Primrose Oil every evening
7) Vitex (chasteberry) tincture 3x week...more around time of period (would take it more but I hate the taste of the alcohol base)

I feel that, *for me*, taking a more holistic approach--getting to the route of the problem, ie: be it a copper, vitamin D, or iodine deficiency, is better than just replacing hormones synthetically and being stuck doing that for life. I want my body to get back in gear, not shut down certain functions because I am replacing it's job with synthetic hormones.

It seems like thyroid problems are so prevelent in child-bearing women these days. Women that should otherwise be healthy. Why is this? Not a rhetorical question. I really wonder.

My first instinct with any health issue is to look at it from a nutritional standpoint. Hence, the nutritional changes I have made (more of a traditional food diet plus the supplements listed above) which have seemed to have gotten me back to *my* normal. I have lost about 15 lbs in last three months, I have an immense amount of energy again (no need for naps, too), mood swings/depression gone, not waking in early morning (except to nurse), no anxiety attacks. These are big changes...many little ones, too.

So, that's my 2 cents. Just thought there is room here for another perspective, one that doesn't include just dosing with Armour or Synthroid.

Peace.

PS. If you haven't already, go to previous page and read JaneS's post. My recent change in health is proof of what she has also come across in her research. It is a common sense approach. I would bet money I am no longer hypo or Hashi. When I have the money I may test again for poops-n-giggles. I'll let ya know *those* results.


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## aliah79

HI mamas!

I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism when I was 10. I've been on Synthroid for the past 17 years until last month when I asked my dr about switching to Armour. I was on 200mcg of synthroid, but still had a lot of the symptoms and felt like crap. She said with my last tests that my T3 did come back low, so put me on 2 grains of Armour (or the generic actually, though I didn't realize it when they filled my script). Within two weeks I felt so much better and even dh has noticed the difference. I still have a few lingering issues, that I think might be helped with further supplementation.

1) My B12 was low, and I was prescribed shots, but I cannot bring myself to do them, and cannot trek to the clinic every week for them. I've had two shots when I've been there for other stuff, and take a liquid B12.

2) My youngest has been diagnosed with Vit D deficiency and we are completely puzzled since he is caucasian and we live in Tennessee - so he gets plenty of sun exposure, and I was pg through the summer, so I got plenty of exposure then too. His stores were immeasureable. We got to this point b/c he was having seizures in Feb, said it was febrile and sent us home, a month later more seizures, back to ER was low calcium, 5 day hospital stay, they assumed Vit D def, tests came back normal, retested a month ago, and Vit D was immeasureable. Found out they tested the wrong kind of Vit D and prescribed the wrong supplement. So we're seeing a ped endo and have been doing vit D therapy for a month. Endo has no explanation other than I didn't have enough Vit D to give him and then b/c he was breastfed and I didn't give him vitamins... we think it may be more of a genetic disorder/hormone related... but we have to wait and see how he responds to the treatment. SO - after reading JaneS post - I wonder if maybe I did not have enough Vit D afterall... I was nursing through pg and tandem nursing too, not sure if that could have added to it all. My parathyroid levels were normal when I asked that they be tested last month, and that is supposed to indicate that your Vit D is normal.

So maybe I need to add Cod Liver Oil to my supplements and that will help...

Maybe I should look into iodine and selenium too?

Any opinions?









ETA: I still have my suspicions that we are dealing with a genetic disorder, since my grandmother, father, and I all have similar symptoms - and now Ds... we were learning towards pseudohypoparathyroidism... it would just make sense if I've had these problems since before puberty, and my toddler has them now...kwim?


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## tigerseye

Just wanted to get subbed to this thread. I've read through the first 8 pages, but don't have time to read the rest right now.

My ob/gyn found a nodule/goiter during an exam last summer (about 6 months after my youngest was born). I had not even noticed it. I saw an endo a few times and absolutely hated him. I was diagnosed with hyperthyroid (all my symptoms were hypo symptoms though) and decided to wait things out a bit to see if my levels evened out or if I went to hypothyroid. The endo was insistent that I was going to end up hypo and informed me he would be putting me on medication. My levels ever since last November have been normal though and I never did go hypo. I finally had enough of the endo and have just been seeing my pcp, who has been checking my levels about every 3 months. I still have the nodule/goiter though and the pcp is insisting that when ds2 stops nursing that I need to have a radioactive iodine scan done. I am not comfortable with that and am going to insist on an ultrasound assisted needle biopsy when the time comes (although I am not thrilled about that either - I HATE needles).


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## KMK_Mama

I was just diagnosed yesterday. Finally. All other docs were telling me I was fine. I finally saw a naturopath and he said there are lots of things wrong with me, but that everything is within normal range so most doctors would say I'm fine when I'm really not.

*My thryoid levels, T3 I think, is low. He put me on a low dose of Armour. Anyone else on that? I wonder how much my dose will have to be changed? I wonder how fast it will work?? I just took my first dose an hour ago! That pill is so tiny!*

My hormones are also screwed up. I am estrogen dominant, with very low progesterone. And I'm low on iron too. This is all in addition to Adrenal Fatigue. NO WONDER I FEEL LIKE CRAP!


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## neveryoumindthere

did ur naturopath diagnose hypo based on labs or symptoms?


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoNatalee* 
Does anyone know if it's possible if you can still have adrenal fatigue and your cortisol level still be within normal range?

I think I answered this on the AF thread...YES, the cortisol levels can *appear* to be in range IF you go by blood work. A saliva test is what you need to diagnose adrenal fatigue - one that tests the saliva 4 times throughout the day. Diagnos-Techs has a great ASI.


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NocturnalDaze* 
Every single one of those symptoms are Hypo and/or adrenal fatigue

Nausea and complete exhaustion are symptoms of adrenal fatigue.

Do you have shaking too?

I bet you have trouble sleeping at night? Either can't fall asleep or wake up and can't go back to sleep?

My adrenal doc (95% of his patients are adrenal patients) says that the thyroid is *always* affected in adrenal fatigue - even if it doesn't show up in test results. Once you heal the adrenals, the thyroid should get back to normal.


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## KJoslyn78

well i just recently joined/did an intro here and found this thread. I was Dxed Hypo Oct of 2002 after having pre-natal blood work for my second pregnancy... i never knew until they did that first visit blood workup. Until then i had apparently been self-medicating on sugar and caffine (we're talking OBSENSE(sp?) amount of caffine 2-3 20oz cappuccinos up to 2 liter of diet soda a day). I had my dosage adjusted about 6 months after she was born... and i have since had anotehr children (who turned 1 last week) and i know i have just been putting off going ot see my Dr about a dosage adjustment. Most days i can bearly function, often napping in the am while the baby does - though now that school is out that wont work (actually i call it more like a coma - saince DH said it would easier to wake the dead)!! Since i'm still nursing ds - i have found in the recent last month or 2 how it's been effecting my milk supply (and we really are not ready to wean!).

Anyways - i'm subbing to this thread... nice to know it's a lot more common problem then i thought.


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## KMK_Mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *neveryoumindthere* 
did ur naturopath diagnose hypo based on labs or symptoms?

Both I guess. He said my T3 WAS low, but still in the lowest end of normal. He said he's isn't happy with where it is and wants it higher because I am obviously symptomatic. He said if I was getting graded, I would be getting D's. He wants to bring me up to A's and B's. Makes sense to me.


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## NocturnalDaze

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
My adrenal doc (95% of his patients are adrenal patients) says that the thyroid is *always* affected in adrenal fatigue - even if it doesn't show up in test results. Once you heal the adrenals, the thyroid should get back to normal.


From what I've read and what my Dr told me it's the thyroid that causes adrenal problems in people with poor thyroid function. Many people with adrenal fatigue have gone for years with either misdiagnosed or poorly treated hypothyroid symptoms. As a result, this puts a lot of stress on the adrenals because they are overcompensating for the thyroid and adrenal fatigue occurs.


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NocturnalDaze* 
From what I've read and what my Dr told me it's the thyroid that causes adrenal problems in people with poor thyroid function. Many people with adrenal fatigue have gone for years with either misdiagnosed or poorly treated hypothyroid symptoms. As a result, this puts a lot of stress on the adrenals because they are overcompensating for the thyroid and adrenal fatigue occurs.

I guess it can go either way, huh? My thyroid looked good in my results. My symptoms sound like hypERthyroid, but it's not showing up - that's when he said that the thyroid is always affected.

It wouldn't hurt to support the adrenals while treating the thryoid, do you agree? Really, everyone *should* support their adrenals, I think that's how life should be - lower stress, elimiate caffeine, increase salt (sea) intake, plenty or sleep & relaxation, good diet. I suppose if everyone did all of those things, the majority of people in te world wouldn't suffer from adrenal fatigue! (& I bet it would reduce the thyroid problems too.)


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## NocturnalDaze

That does make sense. It probably does go both ways. All of the hormones are interconnected. So, if one gets thrown off the others very well could be too.

I definately think everyone should support there adrenals. We're just not made to withstand this culture that we live in.


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## myjo

This is a great thread. I suffer from adrenal fatigue and hypothyroidism.

My problems improve dramatically when I get my back adjusted. My DC told me that he's the same way, and that he has many,many patients with thyroid problems who say the same thing. It seems that the nerve supply to both organs can be significantly impeded by spinal subluxation.

And Jane, thank you for the nutritional info. I know it takes a lot of time to write useful and informative posts, especially when links and quotes are included. I really respect your opinions, they're well researched and make a lot of sense.


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## cloak

I just switched to Armour thyroid. Does anyone else think those pills smell like dog food? I guess pig thyroid isn't going to smell like roses but does it have to smell like dog food? Now I know not to stick my nose in the bottle when I take it though.


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## NocturnalDaze

Oh yeah, Armour smells gross!! I take it sublingually and since I've been pregnant I find it really hard to take sometimes!!


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## momtoNatalee

Just got back from the Dr and wanted to post an update

he went ahead and prescribed me Armour, and told me to stop taking the Wellbutrin (YEAH)

also for 30 days I am going to take Metanx

and from the HFS he told me to get 5-HTP Tryptophan Tabs 50mg (1 at bedtime) our HFS only had 100mg so I am wondering if I can cut them in half?

Overall I think my appt went great, and as soon as I said adrenal fatigue he actually didnt look at me like I had 3 eyes, I really like this Dr..


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## KMK_Mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoNatalee* 
Just got back from the Dr and wanted to post an update

he went ahead and prescribed me Armour, and told me to stop taking the Wellbutrin (YEAH)

also for 30 days I am going to take Metanx

and from the HFS he told me to get 5-HTP Tryptophan Tabs 50mg (1 at bedtime) our HFS only had 100mg so I am wondering if I can cut them in half?

Overall I think my appt went great, and as soon as I said adrenal fatigue he actually didnt look at me like I had 3 eyes, I really like this Dr..

I hope he explained to you HOW to stop taking the Wellbutrin. I stopped taking it cold turkey and got VERY sick!

I have been taking Armour for a week and I don't feel ANY better. I feel the same, if not worse. I go back on the 19th and I am hoping he will up my dose. I am only on 15 mg....what's everyone else's dose? My T3 levels were borderline, on the low end of normal apparently.


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## TanyaS

I felt worse for a short time after switching to Armour. Then my dose increased and now I'm doing much better. It is common to have a period of adjustment when switching. Did you have other throid meds before or is this your first treatment for hypo?


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## beanma

hey y'all

what are your levels? i think the nurse last time i had a check up told me i was 2-ish. i've really not been feeling great all year. struggling a bit with depression and anxiety. i've thought about lobbying for a higher dose or even just dosing myself up (i have a few bottles of synthroid that are higher mcgs from adjustments made during my last pgncy), but i was afraid that a higher dose might make the anxiety i had worse. i really don't need anything to make that worse.

i did go back off caffiene. i need to get more exercise, but it's hard to work it in with the kids. lame excuse i suppose, but my kids are great for jumping on the bed, but not so great for taking a power walk with me. i'm pretty regular in my omega 3 intake, but i'm just feeling off. some days moreso than others (today is actually a good day). the fatigue is not too bad, but i get plenty of sleep usually. i go to bed with the kids (need to get them going to bed earlier, but that's another thread).

my main complaint is the depression/anxiety. i have some issues that make that worse (my parents' health, anxiety about getting high strung dd1's schooling choices settled, etc, etc), but i think it's affecting me more than it needs to. i think if i were a little more _something[/] i could face these challenges head on, but right now i go through spates of being just overwhelmed. sometimes i want to blame the thyroid. sometimes i think i just need to make more effort to build a support network. sometimes i think i need more exercise. sometimes i think maybe it's my adrenals or i need to go to a homeopath, naturopath, or an endo (i've just been on synthroid and treated by regular drs/nurse practioners).

i do get cold easily and enjoy the hot weather, but i've been that way my whole life.

anybody have any thoughts? is 2 a normal level or a little high?

thanks_


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## momtoNatalee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KMK_Mama* 
I hope he explained to you HOW to stop taking the Wellbutrin. I stopped taking it cold turkey and got VERY sick!

I have been taking Armour for a week and I don't feel ANY better. I feel the same, if not worse. I go back on the 19th and I am hoping he will up my dose. I am only on 15 mg....what's everyone else's dose? My T3 levels were borderline, on the low end of normal apparently.


Oh yes, I am going to cut them in half, I was taking it for 6 weeks and only 75mg, so I think it should be fine (it didnt help me AT ALL anyway)

And he gave 60 mg, so yeah ...I bet 15 mg is not enough? My levels were borerline too (100) to be exact on a scale of 85-205


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## momtoNatalee

An online friend of mine brought it to my attn. about taking the 5-htp while taking Armour...not so sure I need to be taking the 5-htp?


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## KMK_Mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaS* 
I felt worse for a short time after switching to Armour. Then my dose increased and now I'm doing much better. It is common to have a period of adjustment when switching. Did you have other thyroid meds before or is this your first treatment for hypo?

This is my first treatment.

I am looking at my results.....but I don't really know how to decipher them.

T3 Reverse-- I was 0.18 and the range listed is 0.11-0.32

T3 free non-dialysis-- I was 2.5 and the range is 2.4-4.2

T4 free non-dialysis-- I was 1.0 and the range is 0.8-1.7


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## MamaMonica

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I guess it can go either way, huh? My thyroid looked good in my results. My symptoms sound like hypERthyroid, but it's not showing up - that's when he said that the thyroid is always affected.

Did the doctor check antibodies? My ND just explained how antibodies make you fluctuate hypo/hyper sometimes throughout the day.


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## E.V. Lowi

I have taken the whole evening to read through this thread. So very interesting and I appreciate all of you that posted with your experiences and gave so much information and great links!

My 14yodd has been diagnosed with hyper. The test for antibodies was inconclusive and the ultrasound revealed lesions/nodes, one of which is enlarged. She also has suffered from symptoms for more than 18 months but the naturopath was not helpful, we finally got a diagnoses from the DO and a referral to a ped. endo in 3 weeks. I am searching for cause and treatment of this lesion/node aspect. Does anyone know? My dd also suffers from the cold, which is more like Hypo, but she has the watery eyes, recurring sore throat, bone aches, terrible acne which does not respond to anything, very low white blood cell count, low blood sugar, inability to concentrate and poor memory. No period for the past 9 months, extreme moodiness and withdrawal, short temper which is so not like her-she usually has a very sunny disposition. She is taking a complete liver detox in a multi vitamin, EFA's (fish oil), broccoli supplement, complete probiotic, and has received regular cranio/sacral her whole life. I want to have as much information as I can, before the endo. appointment, as I would like to avoid an invasive treatment such as RAI. I wasn't able to find a situation similar to hers on this thread, but I bookmarked the links and will read through to see if there is something there that can help her. Thanks!


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## calicocj

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonlightinvt* 
It seems like thyroid problems are so prevelent in child-bearing women these days. Women that should otherwise be healthy. Why is this? Not a rhetorical question. I really wonder.

I think this is a REALLY interesting question, and I have thought about it a lot since my thyroid dx.

I had a textbook pregnancy, very healthy, didn't gain tons of weight, I ate very clean during pg and postpartum, exercised and did yoga/meditation during pg up til the day I went into labor and then started back a few weeks after delivery, took vit and minerals, etc....

But I had a rapid weight loss, sudden drop in milk production, anxiety, etc... followed by weight gain and fatigue like I never imagined.

My midwife noticed a goiter and referred me to an endo - my TSH was over 250!! and antibodies off the charts.

The endo said that my thyroid likely overproduced/ went severely hyper PP and actually damaged itself which caused the swing to hypo. He said that it is common and does sometimes resolve itself, but in my case was too severe to resolve itself, dx Hashimotos.

(So I agree it is important to try other natural things first before allopathic, but I wish I had gone to the doc sooner, instead of the four months of trying to fix myself with nutrition and supplements...which in my case has to support taking the meds, not replace it)

I have also wondered if maybe having Hashimoto's is a result of my being vaxed as a child and the vax damaging my immune system? Then the damage not really manifesting itself until my body was under a certain kind of stressor from pregnancy? Maybe that is one of the many factors that goes into so many women developing this PP?


----------



## streuselmama

Hi all,
I hope this is OK to post here...it's not about a mama with thyroid issues, but rather, my dad.

Here's the situation: My dad was diagnosed with possible thyroid cancer several weeks ago, and went in for surgery today. I don't know what type of thyroid cancer it may be, or any specifics really at all, other than his MD felt a mass, sent him for further testing, and aspiration showed the mass was not a cyst. He was either in denial before the surgery or had processed the experience and was very relaxed about everything. Honestly, he was acting like he was going in for a tooth removal or something.

So his surgery was supposed to be at 1:30 today. They were going to remove half of the thyroid (the half with the HUGE nodule on it) and a sample of tissue from the other half, then send this to pathology while he was still under. If it was cancerous, they were planning to remove the other half; if not, leave it in place. Apparently, this surgery usually takes 1 hour.

His surgery didn't even start until 3:30 because of some issue with his anesthesia (!!). They removed the half and tissue, but the hospital pathology department could not conclusively determine one way or another. So they are sending the tissues out to a specialized lab. It will take four days (!!) to get the results. At 7:30 pm, he was wheeled into intensive care. Apparently, he will be kept in a semi-sleep state with the tubes in his throat kept in place so they don't run into anesthesia complications again should he have to have the second half taken out.

Like I said, I'm going crazy right now - my head is just spinning. I sooooo wish I was in the hospital so I could demand some information and answers. As it is, I am a 4 hour drive away with 2 little ones. I just don't know if going there would be the best thing for my kids. My DS is incredibly attached to his Grandpa - and I am too! My Dad is only 60, and my DS' only grandpa left.

So...is it common for pathology to not know whether it's cancer or not?
How about keeping someone under anesthesia for 6 hours before putting them in the ICU? Honestly, I'm not even sure what to ask right now, but I know that I want more information. I've been through the about.com thyroid cancer section, and the ACS thyroid cancer info, but I'm still left with this panicked, I'm-fumbling-around-in-the-dark kind of feeling. Can anyone either recommend other sites, or help me understand?

Thanks so much - and I'm sorry if this didn't make tons of sense. I really am stricken with fear right now.


----------



## formerluddite

streuselmama, i wish i could answer your questions, but i'm more of a lurker re: the thyriod stuff. i'm a PT in a hospital, so i know a bit about the med stuff, but not enough to address your q's well.

however, there's a nurses tribe, if you post there, you might get some ICU/etc nurses who can explain things.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonlightinvt* 
It seems like thyroid problems are so prevelent in child-bearing women these days. Women that should otherwise be healthy. Why is this? Not a rhetorical question. I really wonder.

Well you know I'm going to say nutritional causes are number 1!









*Nutritional Deficiencies*
From my post above and Dr. Brownstein's book the following can cause an inability to convert T4 to T3: lack of sufficient iodine, iron, selenium, zinc, vitamin A and B vitamins esp. B6 and B12. Magnesium defiency mimics symptoms of hypothyroidism. Copper excess (common in veg*an diets) can cause hyperthyroidism. Your body simply doesn't work correctly without the proper nutrients.

Keep in mind that absorption of these nutrients also depends on effective digestion... if you have any sort of IBS or take stomach acid reducing meditaion, forget it, you are starving yourself.

RDA levels of these nutrients are a joke, they were based on overt signs of clinical deficiency not optimal health. Modern medicine doesn't study nutrition, they are blind to the basic workings of the body and what it runs on. Scurvy for ex. We should all know by now we need much more vit. C for good health and in times of disease than the minimum to prevent scurvy. Studies on traditional diets show that they contained 4x the minerals and water soluble vits and 10x the fat soluble vits as the RDA... and produced people with total health. So I think how much even *more* than an optimal diet do I need to consume in order to recover from a deficiency?

*Diet*
Study after study shows most people are deficient in key nutrients for basic bodily function. The myth of just taking a multivitamin to be "extra insurance" persists. This couldn't be more wrong. Firstly, chemical vitamins are not effective in the body as food based vits. For example, ascorbic acid, the chemical form of vitamin C, is around 10-20 times *less* effective than the natural version in foods, ie. you need to take more.

Secondly our standard grocery store food is deficient. If our soils don't contain the nutrients (selenium for ex.) our food will not either. Food giants don't care about adding minerals to soils, profit margin in major concern. Commercial eggs and grain fed meats contain a fraction of nutrients than traditional farm raised. A diet high in sugar will take up nutrients to digest it. Processed white flour contains 10% of most nutrients as wheat for ex. Vegetable fats high in omega 6s: canola, corn, soy oils.... do not provide usable omega 3s and will block production of other essential fatty acids. The modern diet is making us sick.

In the 1980's bromide was added to flour products, replacing iodine as a dough conditioner, thus further depeleting the poor iodine ratio of the modern diet. Bromide is a thyroid antagonist just as chlorine and fluoride. It takes up the receptors and blocks iodine from attaching.

And unfermented *SOY* is a major goitrogen. I think this is probably a significant factor for our generation of child bearing women. I'm sure it was in my case when I became mostly vegan for health reasons (and I could kick myself now). It's a crying shame that soy is marketed as health food and in most every processed food product.

*Medications*
Birth control pills reduce conversion of T4 to T3.

*Toxicities*
Mercury tooth fillings, fluoride, pesticides, etc reduce conversion.


----------



## JaneS

Streuselmama,








I'm so sorry you are going through this... my cousin is facing the same thing and my father also may have nodular goiter! It's a freakin' epidemic and it's making me p.o.'d!

I think it's riduculous to remove a body part without sufficient evidence. Based on my family's experience... most mainstream dr.'s will just remove a problematic thyroid with impunity... without knowing WHY it is like that or understanding that the thyroid effects EVERY CELL in our bodies.

Iodine defiency is number one cause of nodular goiter but a traditional doctor won't see it that way. Go up to where I discuss iodine and read Flechas, Abrahams and Brownstein's research.


----------



## beanma

streuselmama, hope your dad is doing well







. my dad has been in and out of ICU in the past 5 yrs or so (for different things) and i know that helpless worried feeling. hope they get their results quickly and he recovers quickly. wish i knew more about thyroid cancer, but i'm not well informed on it.







.


----------



## Kimmiepie

Hi, I'm wondering if anyone has any words of advice.

I have these symptoms of hypothyroidism:

severe fatigue, loss of energy
weight gain, difficulty losing weight
depression and depressed mood
joint and muscle pain, headaches
dry skin, brittle nails
brittle hair, itchy scalp
PMS symptoms
difficulty tolerating cold and lower body temperature
sleeping more than average
diminished sex drive
puffiness in face and extremities
allergies that suddenly appear or get worse
persistent cold sores, or breakouts
tingling sensation in wrists and hands that mimics carpal tunnel syndrome
memory loss, fuzzy thinking, difficulty following conversation or train of thought
slowness

But my results seemed to be normal:

TSH *1.892* uIU/mL 0.350-5.500
Thyroxine (T4) *5.3* ug/dl 4.5-12.0
T3 Uptake *32* % 24-39
Free Thyroxine Index *1.7* 1.2-4.9

Any thoughts on this?


----------



## moonlightinvt

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
And unfermented *SOY* is a major goitrogen. I think this is probably a significant factor for our generation of child bearing women. I'm sure it was in my case when I became mostly vegan for health reasons (and I could kick myself now). It's a crying shame that soy is marketed as health food and in most every processed food product.









: I'm so p.o'd about it, too! That (the soy) and birth control pills and poor diet all in my 20's and early 30's.









Now I eat a more "traditional foods" based diet and, luckily, I am in an area where locally grown produce (organic) and pastured animals are plentiful (and, yes I eat meat again--no soy for about 2 1/2 years, lots of raw cow's milk and yogurt and orange-colored yolk eggs...







). But I guess I was too late in finding the truth.

Last night on "Living on Earth" on NPR they aired a segment on perchlorates in our soil and water and the effects of these on women's thyroids. http://http://www.loe.org/shows/segm...27&segmentID=1 It was an interesting and all too frustrating report. Perchlorates, they stated, are mainly from rocket fuel. Like we have any control over that









Jane, I think you are absolutely right-on about nutritional causes. When you think about it, in the whole span of human evolution, only in the last 70 or so years has our food system gone almost entirely industrial. Our bodies have had NO time (in the scheme of things) to evolve even remotely enough to handle the toxic load, deficiencies, and stress that this neo-food has placed on us (that WE...as a planet and people...have placed on our bodies).

All the more reason to plant a garden, buy some cows and chickens, and barter with our neighbors for the rest.


----------



## dannic

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
*IODINE*

Also iodine detoxs the toxic halogens (bromine, chlorine, fluoride, perchlorate, etc.) and also lead and mercury. Detox symptoms can appear with high iodine supplemenation. Vitamin C is one essential nutrient for neutralizing this, and C also enables the body's iodine receptors.

So, what about the detoxing and pregnancy or breastfeeding? I'm just now realizing that I've had thyroid issues for forever that are now getting worse (since I got pregnant with my last). This sounds like the route I'd like to take--treat the cause rather than the symptom...any thoughts on this? Thanks, Nicole


----------



## NocturnalDaze

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kimmiepie* 
Hi, I'm wondering if anyone has any words of advice.

I have these symptoms of hypothyroidism:

severe fatigue, loss of energy
weight gain, difficulty losing weight
depression and depressed mood
joint and muscle pain, headaches
dry skin, brittle nails
brittle hair, itchy scalp
PMS symptoms
difficulty tolerating cold and lower body temperature
sleeping more than average
diminished sex drive
puffiness in face and extremities
allergies that suddenly appear or get worse
persistent cold sores, or breakouts
tingling sensation in wrists and hands that mimics carpal tunnel syndrome
memory loss, fuzzy thinking, difficulty following conversation or train of thought
slowness

But my results seemed to be normal:

TSH *1.892* uIU/mL 0.350-5.500
Thyroxine (T4) *5.3* ug/dl 4.5-12.0
T3 Uptake *32* % 24-39
Free Thyroxine Index *1.7* 1.2-4.9

Any thoughts on this?









The tests that were done aren't very helpful. The TSH is in range but that doesn't mean anything if you have antibodies (which they didn't test for). Thyroxine & T3 uptake don't really mean anything. They measure the amount of T3 & T4 in your body but not the AVAILABLE amount. They can be bound by other homones like estrogen which stops them from actually being able to be used by the body.

Your free thyroxine T4 should be in the upper 1/2 of the range. So, your is very low.

The other tests you need are:
* Free T3 (not T3 uptake)
* Thyroid Antibodies (anti-TPO and TgAb. YOU NEED BOTH.)

This will give you a better picture.....


----------



## attachedmamaof3

Just a quick one...I've been having pretty severe PPD symptoms, but in researching I realized it's more likely that I have thyroid issues (hypothyroid) like hives, irritability, hair falling out, gaining weight post-partum, brittle nails, sleepy ALL THE TIME no matter how much I actually sleep, can't sleep at night tired all day, can't stand cold or hot, NO libido, hands and feet fall asleep/itch, swelling/puffy eyes, depression/anxiety/panic attacks, and more!! yay! I have an appt tomorrow with my doctor.

My question is this:

After I get my blood drawn, etc how long does it take to get the results and begin doing something?? Some of my depression is pretty serious and I'd like to know how long to expect to wait for an answer (if it's not thyroid, I need to get on some meds quick!!!)

Thanks all!


----------



## calicocj

Quote:


Originally Posted by *attachedmamaof3* 
After I get my blood drawn, etc how long does it take to get the results and begin doing something?? Some of my depression is pretty serious and I'd like to know how long to expect to wait for an answer (if it's not thyroid, I need to get on some meds quick!!!)

Thanks all!









mama!

I got lab work back within a week and was started on the meds (Synthroid in my case) in the same time frame. I was pretty low, so they started me out on a very low dose to not shock my system, and then titrated it up once a month til I was in normal ranges. To get to a "normal" TSH level took me about 4 months - BUT - I noticed a difference in energy, mood, etc... after about a week of starting meds...

hope you get some answers soon!


----------



## Kimmiepie

Thanks for the advice. I'll look into how I can get those tests done.


----------



## attachedmamaof3

Quote:


Originally Posted by *calicocj* 







mama!

I got lab work back within a week and was started on the meds (Synthroid in my case) in the same time frame. I was pretty low, so they started me out on a very low dose to not shock my system, and then titrated it up once a month til I was in normal ranges. To get to a "normal" TSH level took me about 4 months - BUT - I noticed a difference in energy, mood, etc... after about a week of starting meds...

hope you get some answers soon!


Thank you for your quick answer!! I'm just ready to stop being so miserable...I'm really having a hard time. Hopefully, this is the first step forward!!







I hope it does only take a week and then I can start doing something about the way I feel!!!


----------



## Kimmiepie

Okay, I just did a check and they don't seem to offer a test for the thyroid antibodies you were talking about. I use www.directlabs.com Does anyone know where I can get this specific one ordered?


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *attachedmamaof3* 
Just a quick one...I've been having pretty severe PPD symptoms, but in researching I realized it's more likely that I have thyroid issues (hypothyroid) like hives, irritability, hair falling out, gaining weight post-partum, brittle nails, sleepy ALL THE TIME no matter how much I actually sleep, can't sleep at night tired all day, can't stand cold or hot, NO libido, hands and feet fall asleep/itch, swelling/puffy eyes, depression/anxiety/panic attacks, and more!! yay! I have an appt tomorrow with my doctor.

My question is this:

After I get my blood drawn, etc how long does it take to get the results and begin doing something?? Some of my depression is pretty serious and I'd like to know how long to expect to wait for an answer (if it's not thyroid, I need to get on some meds quick!!!)

Thanks all!

PPD and all your symptoms can be nutritional deficiencies as well. It takes a lot of nutrients to create another human being from your body stores. And of course I believe that nutritional deficiencies create thyroid disorders.

See Gale Force's website: www.rebuild-from-depression.com and read books _The Mood Cure_ by Julia Ross and _Depression Free Naturally_ by Joan Larson.

I would start some minerals pronto esp. magnesium which will help the anxiety and sleeping right away (1000 mg/day divided doses good versions are mag. glycinate, mag. taurinate or mag. chloride) and zinc. And a good source of B vitamins like Lewis Labs Brewers Yeast 2-3x day.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dannic* 
So, what about the detoxing and pregnancy or breastfeeding? I'm just now realizing that I've had thyroid issues for forever that are now getting worse (since I got pregnant with my last). This sounds like the route I'd like to take--treat the cause rather than the symptom...any thoughts on this? Thanks, Nicole

I would give thought on this too if I were in your situation.

I haven't seen anything specifically on this but it seems to me that iodine supplied to your nursling will protect from toxins as well as *their* iodine receptors will be properly supplied with iodine instead of toxic halogens. It begs the question that if they are not sufficiently supplied with iodine they are just storing the toxins too (because if you are toxic, you are excreting them to some extent in your bm anyways, ie. studies on perchlorate in breastmilk.)

If you are iodine deficient you pass that on to your child from day 1, along with nutritional deficiencies that exacerbate the effect of any toxin, including mercury, lead, etc. It's much more than just "what toxin we are exposed to". A healthy well nourished body will excrete the toxins instead of storing them. And we need to remember it's all about balance, ie. selenium and other minerals are necessary as well.

It's really hard to know what is the right thing to do is when there is so little attention to paid to this in the mainstream.


----------



## moonlightinvt

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kimmiepie* 
Okay, I just did a check and they don't seem to offer a test for the thyroid antibodies you were talking about. I use www.directlabs.com Does anyone know where I can get this specific one ordered?

I ordered mine through Genova Diagnostics http://www.gdx.net. I called them and they told me which docs in my area had accounts with them. My GP was one of them so I asked him to order the test kit for me (comprehensive thyroid assessment) and they mailed it directly to me. I carried it to our local hospital lab to have my blood drawn and included a check in the return box that the hospital lab sent back to Genova (my insurance doesn't cover lab work).


----------



## moonlightinvt

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dannic* 
So, what about the detoxing and pregnancy or breastfeeding? I'm just now realizing that I've had thyroid issues for forever that are now getting worse (since I got pregnant with my last). This sounds like the route I'd like to take--treat the cause rather than the symptom...any thoughts on this? Thanks, Nicole

I've been concerned about this as well, as my son (almost 2 and nursing) was recently tested for lead and has a high-end-of normal result. I've been taking iodine (and other supplements/foods) for a year. I wonder if this may have increased his level due to my detoxing into my blood stream...therefore breastmilk. Thankfully, he now loves to eat dried seaweed and the rest of his diet is very good. I'm hoping this will help him detox. My GP said there is something he can prescribe to pull the lead out, but I will do some research on this before I go in that direction.


----------



## Kimmiepie

I tried the Geneva Diagnostics but you have to have an order from a dr. Unfortunately I can't afford to see a dr right now and I know there are no doctors around here that will order a test without me being seen.


----------



## moonlightinvt

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kimmiepie* 
I tried the Geneva Diagnostics but you have to have an order from a dr. Unfortunately I can't afford to see a dr right now and I know there are no doctors around here that will order a test without me being seen.









I'm sorry. Do you have a doc you've worked with in the past (that would still have you on file)? If so, can you call their office and explain the situation and ask them to call in the order (I just did it all by phone with no appt). I even explained my financial situation (and that I'd have to pay for the kit, blood work...) and they were able to get a slightly discounted price for me.

There must be other labs you can order directly from. Seems like there have been some listed in this thread but I don't have time to go back through all the posts







: .


----------



## Kimmiepie

I might could get someone to do it. I'll try! I'll also check this thread for other options.

Can you tell me how much your test cost? (we are very strapped at the moment)


----------



## E.V. Lowi

Does anyone have any idea or information as to what would cause the lesions and nodes/enlarged nodes in the thyroid? I haven't been able to find any information about this aspect, specifically.


----------



## mighty-mama

HI,

I just got a link to this thread (thanks moonlightinvt)

I've been diagnosed w/ Hash. for the past 4 yrs. I've complained for 6 yrs before that and was told I was depressed..

Long story short by the time a new doctor finally listened to me my antibody levels were 1175, (normal is 35). I've been on synthyroid ever since and have felt great.

Once my tsh was normal, I became pregnant w/ ds1, after 2 m/c and 18mths of infertility.

I've been on synthroid and I believe the max I was on w/ ds1 was 150. My dose was adjusted to 125mcg post-partum.. I've had complications during ds1's pregnancy. First I had a pericaridal effusion, which could've been "pregnancy" related or autoimmune related. The "effusion" (excess fluid around the pericardial sac that surrounds the heart) diminished once I was post-partum. I also had high blood pressure during ds1's preg. I was normally 112/68 and went as high as 140-90. Also the rise created his placenta to age prematurely...

Okay let's fast forward to my current pregnancy. I was once again diligent about my levels and was at about 125mcg until 25wks. Like clockwork once again my blood pressure started to rise. So far it hasn't been high enough to put me on bed rest again (thank god).

My levels started to creep up and since I just filled a rx for the 125, my jerk doctor told me to take 1 pill and 1/2. Which is the equivalent of 187mcg. I didn't question it as this was 1 day after I found out my sister looked to be dying, and I knew the stress would bring my tsh up..

Well living in the whirlwind of my sister's death, I forgot to tell my "high risk" doctor to lower my dose. My tsh was 1.3. Two days later (4th of July) I started having severe chest pains, and felt as if my heart would leap out of my chest. I thought it was a panic/anxiety attack that I've started having since my sister's death. And I thought maybe my body was processing it at this time.. My tsh was -.57.

Long story short, my hypo, has now turned into hyper. Since I'm in a clinic and they are only open on Monday's. I dont have any one to talk to about my dose, and frankly, they are idiots anyway. So, I thought the best was for me to stop taking my 187mcg dose until my next appt. So theoretically I'll be off of synthroid for 2 wks. Do you think this is a bad idea? Do you think my body will go back to being hypo, without the meds, as I figured it would?

Please let me know, as you mama's know much more than my ob's...


----------



## calicocj

mighty-mama - I don't really have an answer for you (I didn't even know you could have negative TSH, so I don't know much about hyper) but wanted to send you hugs anyway.

Some of more experienced and well-read mamas here might have better answers, but my instinct would be that it would be better to ramp down more gradually from the high dosage than go off completely to not shock your body.... like half a pill or something until you can get your blood tested again to rule out a temporary fluctuation or something like that...

good luck! hope you can get some answers soon!


----------



## Kimmiepie

So I need T3 Free and Antibodies.

Would that be the anti thyroglobulin ab (TAA)

Or the Thyroxine Binding Globulin (TBG) ?

Because I can't find the anti-TPO listed...is that the same thing as the TAA?

That is interesting that the antibodies can make you flucuate between the two (hyper/hypo) because I totally have that!! Sometimes it's more hypo (like right now) other times it's way more hyper and some days it's both!







:


----------



## attachedmamaof3

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
PPD and all your symptoms can be nutritional deficiencies as well. It takes a lot of nutrients to create another human being from your body stores. And of course I believe that nutritional deficiencies create thyroid disorders.

See Gale Force's website: www.rebuild-from-depression.com and read books _The Mood Cure_ by Julia Ross and _Depression Free Naturally_ by Joan Larson.

I would start some minerals pronto esp. magnesium which will help the anxiety and sleeping right away (1000 mg/day divided doses good versions are mag. glycinate, mag. taurinate or mag. chloride) and zinc. And a good source of B vitamins like Lewis Labs Brewers Yeast 2-3x day.

I definately need to try this out...I'm seriously stressed about the possibility of having to be medicated so if I can "fix it" with this, I'd rather do that!!


----------



## Kimmiepie

Okay I am such a nerd. Can someone please help me find these tests on this website?? I emailed someone from the site and she told me they had those specific tests and how much they were, but I'm not seeing them







: Foggy-brained perhaps??









I need these tests:

Free T3 (not T3 uptake)
Thyroid Antibodies (anti-TPO and TgAb. YOU NEED BOTH.)

AND I also need

Estrogen
Progesterone

http://www.directlabs.com/testtypes.php#adrenal

Thank you!!!


----------



## dannic

Attn Jane, et all~~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
I would give thought on this too if I were in your situation.

I haven't seen anything specifically on this but it seems to me that iodine supplied to your nursling will protect from toxins as well as *their* iodine receptors will be properly supplied with iodine instead of toxic halogens. It begs the question that if they are not sufficiently supplied with iodine they are just storing the toxins too (because if you are toxic, you are excreting them to some extent in your bm anyways, ie. studies on perchlorate in breastmilk.)

If you are iodine deficient you pass that on to your child from day 1, along with nutritional deficiencies that exacerbate the effect of any toxin, including mercury, lead, etc. It's much more than just "what toxin we are exposed to". A healthy well nourished body will excrete the toxins instead of storing them. And we need to remember it's all about balance, ie. selenium and other minerals are necessary as well.

It's really hard to know what is the right thing to do is when there is so little attention to paid to this in the mainstream.

SO, by taking iodine, hopefully, I am passing some of that on as well? Understanding that it is a whole food form?
I am very aware that you can pass on defieciencies. My family passes on an ezyme deficiency for cow's milk...sigh. So here's my "history"
I've always had an itchy, flaky scalp
as a teen, I struggled with depression and weight gain
When my hormones fluctuate wildly, my eyes are affected: dizziness and nausea and headaches from reading, bending over and straightening up, and changes in lighting.
Irritability
and new to the list since I got pregnant last August:
Anxiety
Inability to cope with stress
feeling like everyone is against me, blowing up at the slightest things
weepy
Some days, I'm fine and have no symptoms...others, everything hits me while yet others are in between. I had major anxiety during pregnancy and for a few weeks afterwards that something was/would be wrong with the baby (all unrealized, thankfully). My dh was at his wits end.







:
Funny, the things that helped during preg: kelp, high-quality B vitamins, eating every 2-3 hrs, magnesium, and Bach's Rescue Remedy. I quit all this once baby was born, as I thought all this was pregnancy related...so, could you please give me a list of things to read that would help me better understand and nutritionally heal this??? BTW, I swear my 2 yr old cycles (all of these symptoms) with me...is this possible???







:
ANy ideas on how I help heal my children, as well, without increasing toxin exposure? Thanks, Nicole


----------



## MamaMonica

(((mightymama))). If you can't find the answer here, maybe there are some thyroid boards (Mary Shomon's maybe? Don't now how active it is) where you can find the answer before Monday.


----------



## beanma

mighty-mama,







.

i'd definitely back off. i'd try to get through to your dr, too, though because they need to run tests, y'know? it might be more difficult for them to assess the dose you should be at if you go off, really. i'm not sure of the amount of time it takes your body to adjust to a new dose and for that to reflect in tests, but it's more than a day for sure. i've had mine adjusted before, as most of these mamas probably have, and my care-providers told me that they would have to wait some amount of time which my foggy brain can't recall until they could retest to see if it was the right dose. (frankly i think i might be a little low now 'cause of a whole laundry list of symptoms and foggy brain is just one of those, but that's a different post.)

in your situation, i think what i would do is call the clinic office and explain your symptoms and ask to be seen asap. i'd tell them you're cutting back on your dosage, too, because you feel like you're going to jump out of your skin. if they won't see you maybe the dr will at least talk to you. ask whoever you talk to to note that you are changing your dosage. i don't think i would go all the way off, though. i might back down to just one pill instead of the pill and a half.

i think it is common for adjustments in dosage to occur during pg. i had mine adjusted upwards, too. i started at .075 i think and worked my way up to .1 or maybe .125 . i just still have those other pills in the medicine cabinet. i save them for emergenicies when i run out of my current dose of .088 because i couldn't get to the drug store to pick up a refill. i'll split a .125 into 4ths and take 3/4 which is about .092 i think. just because you got your prescription refilled at .125 is no reason for the dr to tell you to take .185 -- that's a massive jump really. i'm not sure what the next dosage is from .125, but it's probably more like .140 or .150 . i think i'd go back down to the .125 and demand to be seen. if they won't see you until your next appt (really, they should see you now -- you're PG, for crying out loud) then when they do see you tell them you've been on the .125 for two weeks (or however long it turns out to be) and ask to be tested.

i have high blood pressure, too (runs in the family) and when i first got pg with dd1 i called before i could be seen and let them know i had POAS and gotten a positive and that i was on a diuretic for high bp. rather than have me on the diuretic during pgncy the nurse practioner called in a prescrip for aldomet i think (might have that drug name wrong) and when i took it -- whoa i was loopy. i had a home BP cuff and my BP was like 90/60 when it's usually 135/85 (on a good day unmedicated) or 125/80 (medicated). i just stopped taking the stuff. i told them when i went in and they said that was the right thing to do because sometimes especially in early pg your BP can go DOWN. anyway, MY drs weren't mad at me for adjusting my dose on that one. don't know how your dr will feel about you taking matters into your own hands, but your thyroid definitely needs to be regulated for your health and your baby's, too!

i'm not hashi btw so i don't know about the swinging from hypo to hyper that can go on with it. (i do have a LOT of vitiligo which i thought for sure meant i was hashi since it's an auto-immune thing, too, and thyroid issues and vitiligo often go hand in hand, but apparently according to the tests i have not hashi antibodies.







)

hth


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## dannic

Bumping for book suggestions on thyroid issues...hopefully from a holistic perspective.


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## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *E.V. Lowi* 
Does anyone have any idea or information as to what would cause the lesions and nodes/enlarged nodes in the thyroid? I haven't been able to find any information about this aspect, specifically.

Lack of iodine (nodular goiter), vitamin D deficiency (there are studies on this) and also I believe what I think (?) is an autoimmune disease hyperparathyroidism.


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## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dannic* 
Bumping for book suggestions on thyroid issues...hopefully from a holistic perspective.









Dr. Brownstein's 2 books: "Overcoming Thyroid Disorders" and "Iodine: Why You Need It" http://www.drbrownstein.com/


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## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dannic* 
Attn Jane, et all~~

SO, by taking iodine, hopefully, I am passing some of that on as well? Understanding that it is a whole food form?
I am very aware that you can pass on defieciencies. My family passes on an ezyme deficiency for cow's milk...sigh. So here's my "history"
I've always had an itchy, flaky scalp
as a teen, I struggled with depression and weight gain
When my hormones fluctuate wildly, my eyes are affected: dizziness and nausea and headaches from reading, bending over and straightening up, and changes in lighting.
Irritability
and new to the list since I got pregnant last August:
Anxiety
Inability to cope with stress
feeling like everyone is against me, blowing up at the slightest things
weepy
Some days, I'm fine and have no symptoms...others, everything hits me while yet others are in between. I had major anxiety during pregnancy and for a few weeks afterwards that something was/would be wrong with the baby (all unrealized, thankfully). My dh was at his wits end.







:
Funny, the things that helped during preg: kelp, high-quality B vitamins, eating every 2-3 hrs, magnesium, and Bach's Rescue Remedy. I quit all this once baby was born, as I thought all this was pregnancy related...so, could you please give me a list of things to read that would help me better understand and nutritionally heal this??? BTW, I swear my 2 yr old cycles (all of these symptoms) with me...is this possible???







:
ANy ideas on how I help heal my children, as well, without increasing toxin exposure? Thanks, Nicole

That's a pretty good list to start with of supplements that you took during pregnancy. I would add selenium and high vitamin cod liver oil too.

I've tried to put what I know regarding nutrition and digestion into the Healing the Gut Cheat Sheet. And it's an ongoing process for me too. The books on depression/anxiety I list above are very helpful in understanding the background of why the body reacts with anxiety to deficiencies.

I think stomach acid is a key role in this that hasn't gotten a lot of press... it is essential for absorbing B12 (google B12 deficiency symptoms and you'll get most of what you wrote) as well as amino acids (which are our neurotransmitters, essential for mood). Betaine HCI supplements for stomach acid support. It helped me a great deal when I had IBS and probably did a lot of other good regarding mood and sleep problems which disappeared when my digestion got better.


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## desertpenguin

i guess more of a philosophical question perhaps...i haven't been diagnosed with hypothyroidism but i strongly suspect it, so i've been making adjustments to my diet in hopes of helping resolve any nutritional deficiencies i have, at least as much as i can do until i have $$ to get some help otherwise.

anyhoo, on to my question. in one of my natural health books the section on thyroid disorders, the author says that oftentimes people who develop thyroid disorders suppress their true feelings/don't voice their opinions often enough. when i read that, i thought for me that was true. one of his his recommendations was basically to lay down and place your hands on your throat chakra and make any noise that you want for at least 10 minutes every day. i was wondering if suppression of your "voice" rings true for anyone else here with a thyroid disorder?

he also suggested going outside and looking in the direction of the sun (not directly at it of course) within an hour of sunrise, to get the sunshine directly in your eyes (no glasses, not looking through a window, etc) so that the sunshine could stimulate your pineal gland and hopefully help boost your other glands as a result.


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## NocturnalDaze

Absolutely!!

I'm normally introverted anyway. When my thyroid is off I hide from the world. That includes speaking my mind especially to non-family members.

When everything is good I find speaking quite a bit easier


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## dannic

Thanks, Jane! I'm looking over the info.

Desert Penguin--I am more apprehensive about speaking out--esp if I sense a conflict. I waited til 8 mos pregnant to tell people I was having my baby at home...my dh couldn't understand my anxiety--not about hb, but about having to tell people. And I am usually an outspoken (in a nice way, I hope







) person.


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## E.V. Lowi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Lack of iodine (nodular goiter), vitamin D deficiency (there are studies on this) and also I believe what I think (?) is an autoimmune disease hyperparathyroidism.

There is no sign of a goiter or any swelling, besides one enlarged node in the rt side of the thyroid. There are small lesions and nodes spread throughout the thyroid.
There is no sign of excessive calcium, nor was the test for antibodies conclusive as to indicate an autoimmune disorder. The girl will not drink cow's milk- her DO was always fine with this. She does love tofu and cheese, gets good quantities of dark leafy greens and high grade protein, and takes omegas and other high quality supplements, including a multi-flora probiotic as recommended by her naturopath. The bloodwork revealed very low white cell count, and low blood sugar. I will look into the vit D and iodine- thanks for your help, Jane- you're an angel!


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## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *desertpenguin* 
i guess more of a philosophical question perhaps...i haven't been diagnosed with hypothyroidism but i strongly suspect it, so i've been making adjustments to my diet in hopes of helping resolve any nutritional deficiencies i have, at least as much as i can do until i have $$ to get some help otherwise.

anyhoo, on to my question. in one of my natural health books the section on thyroid disorders, the author says that oftentimes people who develop thyroid disorders suppress their true feelings/don't voice their opinions often enough. when i read that, i thought for me that was true. one of his his recommendations was basically to lay down and place your hands on your throat chakra and make any noise that you want for at least 10 minutes every day. i was wondering if suppression of your "voice" rings true for anyone else here with a thyroid disorder?

It did. Now I say whatever I want because I'm so tired of people trying to tell me what's good for me when they obviously have no idea what they are talking about.

he also suggested going outside and looking in the direction of the sun (not directly at it of course) within an hour of sunrise, to get the sunshine directly in your eyes (no glasses, not looking through a window, etc) so that the sunshine could stimulate your pineal gland and hopefully help boost your other glands as a result.

I go to yahoo groups naturalthyroidhormones and stopthethryoidmadness (dotcom) and mary shoman's site for most of my information. I have no trust for the average endo. And anyone who starts telling me how fabulous soy and black cohosh are I either set straight or ignore, whichever suits my mood and energy level at the time.

meditation is a big help too.

I hear a lot of people talk about the throat/voice thing, so you are not imagining it by any means.


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## Hauoli lani

Hello...I have been told that my numbers were outrageous. The normal count is 35 and below, mine is 888. I have had 2 miscarriages, one was with twins and the other was single. I was told by a Dr. that because my Auto Antibodies are so high, every time I get pregnant I will miscarry, because my body kills the fetus. I am now seeing a different Dr. because the old one said there is nothing I can do and I should start thinking of a Surrogate. Well, I am now on Baby Aspirin, Levoxyl, and Progesterone Suppositories. He has me checking my BBT and LH levels. I am really hoping I don't get my Period next week and if we are pregnant that it sticks.

If anyone has any other advice please let me know, I would love to hear from any of you who have experienced what I am going through.

Thank you and good luck to all of you.


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## tanyalynn

http://autoimmunedisease.suite101.co...ntibody_titers

Discusses selenium supplementation to reduce thyroid antibody counts. JaneS has put up some interesting discussions lately of how selenium and iodine interact, and how supplementation of both is a good idea (I hope I didn't paraphrase that too badly). Check it out here (this thread, I think) and possibly over in Dental.

I've read several places that selenomethionine (I think I got the spelling right) is the best form to supplement with. I did this (along with other minerals) to get my hypothyroidism under control.

Good luck!


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## WannabeaFarmer

Thats awsome I printed that out to take to my Appointment with my new Endo in two weeks. I went through 6 pregnancies before getting my DD(baby #7). She was my 1st and only successful baby to make it past 22 weeks. She was born at 31 weeks. Every Endo I have ever seen has always told me that I will probably not carry to term and that I will only carry up to aprox 34 weeks. So we will be talking about babies with the endo when I see her so I have a good idea of what to somewhat look "forward" too next time we try for a baby.
So Thanks again for that info, I will look forward to that discussion with the endo in 2 weeks..







I shall report back on what she does for me.


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## MamaMonica

Do antibodies naturally fluctuate? I have been taking vitamins and also going to an energy healer and my antibodies went down from the 700s to 200s. I wonder if there are natural fluctuations or if the nutrition is working...


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## NocturnalDaze

They naturally fluctuate. That is why someone w/ Hashi's will fluctuate between hypo and hyper symptoms....


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## Hauoli lani

Thank you for the info. I also printed out the information.


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## APmom2Libby

Ugh, I could just SCREAM! I spent 20 minutes typing all this out and it was LOST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!

I am desperate so, I'm going to type it again.

I need your help ladies. I FINALLY got some HOPE that I was going to feel better. Wednesday, I started on a bunch of supplements for my thyroid/adrenals and was feeling TONS better yesterday. I LOVE my new doc, and he is very careful in checking what he gives me for any dangers/side effects with nursing my 23 month old dd, BUT, she has been WIRED for the last 18-20 hours! She was up and very restless MOST of the night last night and my dh and I are ready to climb the walls today! (I just threw my glasses at the wall and used a very bad word when I lost my last post!!!!!!)







:

Anyway, here is the LONG-re-typed list of med's I just started on:

Methylcobalamin 5000 mcg (5mg) 1 sublingual in am
Folic Acid - 1 in am
Reacted Potassium (2 in am, 2 at bedtime)
Reacted Magnesium (4 at bedtime)
Reacted Calcium (4 at bedtime)
Liquid Iodine (75 mcg per drop) 4 drops in am
GTA- 3 in am
*GTA ingredients: Porcine Glandular Concentrate 5mg, Selenium 5mcg, Rubidum 5mcg, Superoxide Dismutase 30 mcg, Catalase 30 mcg
Cytozyme-AD- 1 in am, 1 mid-afternoon
Cyt-AD ingredients: Neonatal Adrenal complex (bovine) 80 mg, Superoxide Dismutase 20 mcg, Catalase 20 mcg.
5-HTP 100 mg- 2 at bedtime
Orthomega (Fish oil)- 2 in am, 2 in pm
Vitamin D3 5000 IU's- 1 at dinner

For those of you, or anyone else







, that have been on some of these supp's, did your nursing child have any problems such as anxiety, sleeplessness, crankiness, high energy?

DD could also be teething (2 yr molars), but the timing is too conicidental, yk? She seems much more wired than any other times before with teething.

Thanks in advance for any help/suggestions you guys can offer!!!!!!


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## tanyalynn

I had some problems with my adrenal supplement, not for the little one, but for me. As I started to get better, I had to cut out the midday pills because I was getting a bit wired/unable to go to sleep at night. But we also decided to add in melatonin for me and the little one (my problems are related to my mercury fillings, and apparently mercury messes up something about melatonin--I think (but don't remember exactly, it was a passing comment by my HCP)--that the melatonin gets used up dealing with processing the mercury, but anyway, 25lb 15mo son takes 1mg melatonin each night, I take 3mg). No other suggestions, sorry, but you may want to post such a specific question in another thread (sorry if you already did that and I just didn't see).


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## Potty Diva

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Jessica** 
I *think* I finally have a few minutes to type.

I have a quick appointment today to go over my symptoms with my doc and to get my lab order. In case anyone is wondering why I have to see the doc before they'll send me for bloodwork....I haven't seen a doctor (aside from an OB) since the pre-TTC appointment I had three years ago where we discussed my borderline hypothyroid levels and agreed to keep checking them every 6 months or so. Not long after that we had troubles with their office and decided they were not the physicians for us! We switched docs and the boys have both seen the new doctor (who we really like and is ok with our no vaxing....woohoo!) but I haven't seen him for medical care yet. That's why he has to see me quickly before my labs. Until they have me in their system they can't just print out orders.

On to my symptoms.....

Goiter: identified at my last appt 3 years ago

Fatigue: For the last three weeks I've gotten progressively worse regarding how much I can even function because my body is so tired. I'm not ready for a nap, but I feel like if I sit on the couch my body will never let me get
up again. Forget playing with the boys, I just physically cannot do it.









Constipation coupled with the opposite: I have never in my life dealt with this issue. For a week or so I'm constipated and then I get really frequent soft bowel movements for a couple of weeks, then constipation again.

Dry skin: Over the last couple of years my skin has become _terribly_ dry and flaky. Right now it looks great, perhaps because it is so humid here nothing could be dry?

Forgetfulness: I blamed it on pregnancy and motherhood, but my memory is truly horrific lately. I used to have a fabulous memory, so this is highly unusual for me. I forgot my own phone number yesterday!









Hair loss: In the last 3 years my pony tail has shrunk to half of it's original size. And my hair hangs halfway down my back so imagine finding it everywhere. *sigh* I have to cut it off of the vacuum before using it every single time I vacuum, providing I have the energy to vacuum of course!

Heat/cold intolerance: I alternate between being cold on 80 degree days and sweating profusely on much cooler days. It's hard to get dressed these days.

Depression: Some days I really just want to die. I could never kill myself, but I have far too many *I wish I would just fall over dead* days lately. And my life (aside from these symptoms) is *so* good! Depression doesn't fit.

Anxiety attacks: I used to very occasionally get really overwhelmed and need to leave a store when shopping. I feel that way often in the last couple of months. Too many people and I can't breathe and I need OUT NOW! I feel sick and panicky thinking about it. I just want to stay home and never leave.

Lighter menstrual periods: But is this because of my thyroid or the fact that I now use a Diva/cloth pads? Or is it just natural changes after having a second child?

Weight loss: After going years having a HARD time losing weight I have lost 14 pounds in 3 weeks with no dietary changes. In fact, we had three birthdays and all of the cake that goes with, plus a visit from my brother the chef in that time.

Fuzzy eyesight: Is it time for an eye appointment or a symptom?

Rage: Aside from the fatigue this is the worst! Do you know how hard it is for an AP momma to feel rage at her children?! I have threatened to spank and actually done so a couple of times. Me!!!! And then I get so depressed I just want to run away so my kids don't have to live with a terrible momma. Ugh! So I try extra hard to be gentle and attentive, but them I'm so tired and my body just wants to not be bounced on anymore and my ears hurt and I just WANT TO BE LEFT ALONE! And I get angrier and angrier and can't seem to diffuse it no matter how hard I try. I really hate myself right now.

So it is possible that I was hypothyroid (like my mother and grandfather) for those 3 years (untreated) and my thyroid tried so hard to work that it has become overactive? It doesn't seem possible but my symptoms are _so weird._ I also have a hyperthyroid grandmother (on my father's side) who had to have her thyroid removed.

Well, regardless, I go today for answers and hope I get them quickly because I'm so tired and I can't take it anymore! I'll update you all on what happens.

I just kept saying OMG OMG OMG! At every symptom you described. So I could be right, I could have hypothyroidism (I have gained 10 pounds in one month even though I have been on a strict vegan diet for 6 weeks).

I could cry and scream at the same time. An ER doc said I was depressed and prescribed me Leixpro. No, I won't fill the prescription. I am just overjoyed at being directed to this thread.


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## E.V. Lowi

Well, I took dd to the pediatric endocrinologist, and it went badly. The guy was so arrogant towards me and condescending towards dd. Imagine George Costanza, from Seinfeld as a doctor and you will get a pretty clear picture. He said the goiter was common and that I was making a big deal out of nothing. He seemed to think that he could cure all her problems by putting her on birth control pills! It was a complete waste of time and a lot of money. He also told me to take her off of all supplements. I have tried to make an appointment with another endocrinologist to get a second opinion, but no one in town will take her, because she is a minor. She is still suffering from her symptoms, just not in good general health and is showing symptoms of hyperthyroid and PCOS. I feel so frustrated tht I have not been able to find a doctor that will help her and our insurance will only pay for these type of quacks.


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## beanma

he said that the goiter was common!!

have you tried just taking her to a pediatrician? i've never actually seen an endo for my hypothyroidism and have always been treated by whatever care-provider i'm seeing. i've often thought i should go to an endo, but just have never gotten around to it. now, i'm wondering!!


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## NocturnalDaze

From everything I've heard Endo's are completely useless for treating hypo. Their specialty is really diabetes and if your lucky maybe they will treat that correctly.

You would probably have better luck with a general practitioner. Insurance doesn't usually cover them but naturopathic docs are often most helpful with this.


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## E.V. Lowi

I have an appointment for her to see a naturopath/chiro whose practice is about 50% children. The last naturopathic ND that I took dd to was flaky- lost blood samples and test results, didn't return phone calls, follow through or keep regular office hours and drove dh to distraction. It was hard enough to get him to go along with an alternative medical provider since the insurance won't cover it and he is so skeptical in the first place. It's so maddening to know that the insurance will pay for all the labwork required by the Endo/Quack but not for the ND/Chiro. I can't understand how that is. It seems to be a well known fact that birth control pills just make the PCOS worse in the long run, How is this guy still in business and fully funded by the PPO?







:


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## Annikate

Hi mamas! I've read here on and off over the last couple of years since dh was dx'd hypothyroid.

Today he found out that all this time his doc wasn't doing a complete panel but was only testing his TSH levels.







:

Recent results show everything in mid-range except his TSH is really elevated. Doc went into a song and dance about how the pituitary could be enlarged thus causing this and now wants to send dh for an MRI.

What could cause elevated TSH only?

I'm going to x-post this too.


----------



## sunnysideup

My dd has autoimmune thyroid disease and Chronic Urticaria. Anyone else dealing with this?

DD's been living with this for over a year, and it only seems to be getting worse. More rash, more swelling, more pain. She sees a pediatric rheumatologist and endocrinologist, but nothing the dr.s do seems to help.


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## Potty Diva

I jsut got my TSh results back. It is 1.59 and says the normal range is 0.34-5.60 so why am I having all these symptoms (weight gain, hair loss and breaking, etc)? It's really odd.

Should I spend mroe money to have them do a T4? Or should I just rule hypothryoidism out all together?


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## MamaMonica

Potty Diva, did they check for thyroid antibodies? There are two and both should be checked for. If they're out of range, your thyroid is under attack even if it hasn't yet affected the TSH number. I hope you can get some answers.


----------



## Potty Diva

I have an appointment aug 15th at another dr's office to discuss another test (I am not going to tell this office about the TSH test). I am self paying for this office visit and have only told them that I have symptoms and would like it tested (they asked if I had a goiter and I said no). I hope they aren't going to give me the run around.

Any info I should arm myself with?

I do have low potassium and chloride levels (lower then the low average.


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## tanyalynn

PottyDiva--I started having symptoms when my TSH went from 1.05 (checked when I felt fine due to family history) to 1.55. It took longer, for me, for my TSH to drift up enough for it to be noticeably wrong (and then I still had to prod). The top of the normal range was lowered to 3.0 about 5 years ago but many docs don't use the new number (even when informed and handed a printout from the American Assoc of Clinical Endocrinology website). And you may not have antibodies regardless--I didn't (I asked to have it checked) possibly because I was supplementing with 200mcg of selenium, and had been for a while. Selenium helps with T4 to T3 conversion (helpful for those on Synthroid and Synthroid-like supplements) and it also reduces antibody counts.

You may need to find a healthcare provider that will look primarily at your symptoms and not so much at lab results (or, like me, feel crappy until your lab results get bad enough that it's obvious--but by then, I went alternative anyway).

Good luck.


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## neveryoumindthere

Just wanted to add there is a board called www.Healthboards.com that has a thyroid section and they have a WEALTH of information and I believe some endos post on there too and they will help interpret your results..

Potty Diva...you can still have a normal range tsh and be hypothyroid and you can get *way* more info with the Free T4 and freeT3's...as far as I've read, women need to be in the Upper 1/3 of the range to feel good and be pretty much symptom-free..

my tsh was also normal and my endo wouldnt listen even though both my freet3's and freet4's were on the VERY low end.borderline actually..

hoping to find an osteopath to do my bloodwork up again..
a really good book with most of the info u need is The Thyroid Solution by Dr. Ridha Arem, this book seriously saved me from my self (in the throes of hyperthyroidism I was suicidal almost daily) ..as I flipped thru it at the bookstore the tears were just uncontrollable cuz I finally found what was wrong with me...one year and 6 doctors later, the endo did admit that I went thru a very bad case of postpartum thyroiditis.but by that time my numbers were goin back to normal..great timing huh..I didnt start feeling 'better' till this past April, about 18 months after dd was born

HTH


----------



## E.V. Lowi

Well, I finally have some good news about dd. I took her to see a new doctor, a naturopath who is also a chiro. Within minutes of meeting him, I knew we were on the right tract. This is the first doctor I have met that seems to know what he is doing! He was so thorough and asked all the right questions. He was not at all arrogant like the others we have seen, but with a quiet, confident demeanor and an open mind. By the end of the exam, I felt that we had a realistic plan of treatment and my dd feels optimistic for the first time in a year.







:

I'm so grateful to those of you who posted with all the helpful links on this thread and others on the H&H forum and to those of you who shared your experiences. Thank you so much!


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## Pilgrim

Just was diagnosed with autoimmune hypothyroidism, so I'm here to learn. I'm 18 weeks pregnant, and doc prescribed a low dose of dessicated sheep thyroid. Now I'm going to go read the thread!


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## neveryoumindthere

Pilgrim, you just gave me hope!
I dont want to be on synthroid, but I cant do armour b/c its made from pig which for religious reasons I cant/dont consume in any form..but I could do sheep

whether here or PM, if you are able to share any info it would be greatly appreciated


----------



## Pilgrim

Quote:


Originally Posted by *neveryoumindthere* 








Pilgrim, you just gave me hope!
I dont want to be on synthroid, but I cant do armour b/c its made from pig which for religious reasons I cant/dont consume in any form..but I could do sheep

whether here or PM, if you are able to share any info it would be greatly appreciated









Wow, I'm already glad to be of use here!









The brand my doc gave to me is Priority One. The ingredients state: thyroid, rice powder, gelatin. Now, my doc said that he prefers sheep thyroid over pig thyroid, saying that it's closer to human function. My bottle, however, doesn't say the source of the thyroid (but doc says it's sheep). The website is: www.priorityonevitamins.com But, you have to be a registered professional to get more information. I'll ask my doc, as we have a phone consult scheduled for my follow up.


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## Kimmiepie

Hello.

I just got my recent results back from the lab and they are as follows: (I included the saliva too just for fun)

Estradiol (saliva) 1.8 normal is 1.3-3.3
Progesterone (saliva) 174 normal is 75-270
Ratio pg/E2 (saliva) 97 L optimal is 100-500
Testosterone (saliva) 17 normal is 16-55
DHEAS (saliva) 7.2 normal is 2-23
Cortisol morning (saliva) 4.8 normal is 3.7-9.5
Cortisol noon (saliva) 1.7 normal is 1.2-3.0
Cortisol evening (saliva) 1.1 normal is 0.7-2.5
Cortisol night (saliva) 0.4 normal is 0.4-1.0
Free T4 (bloodspot) 1.1 normal is 0.7-2.5
TSH (bloodspot) 1.8 normal is 0.5-3.0
TPO (bloodspot) 60 normal is 0-150 (borderline 70-150)

The only thing the lab pointed out was low testosterone and low pg/E2 ratio which I think means estrogen dominance in the luteal phase? But they said all my thyroid was normal. What do you think?

These are the results from a bloodraw I had done a couple of months ago:

TSH 1.892 uIU/mL 0.350-5.500
Thyroxine (T4) 5.3 ug/dl 4.5-12.0
T3 Uptake 32 % 24-39
Free Thyroxine Index 1.7 1.2-4.9

So those are older but can be used to compare or whatever.

Thanks for any input!!!


----------



## Kimmiepie

I'm wondering if my results above (TPO) would indicate hashi's. Does anyone know? The madness forums are down for a week and I can't find anything else that answers my question. Thanks!


----------



## Pilgrim

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kimmiepie* 
I'm wondering if my results above (TPO) would indicate hashi's. Does anyone know? The madness forums are down for a week and I can't find anything else that answers my question. Thanks!


I'm learning a lot myself just now, but your TPO appears to be within normal limits.


----------



## Pilgrim

Hello,

I still haven't made it all the way through this thread, but I've been reading at other sites, trying to educate myself about this thyroid business. I just had a phone consult with my ND to discuss my labs. He had some valuable information, and so I'm cutting & pasting my own notes: (hope it's of some use to someone out there.)

He did two tests to diagnose my Hashi's:
Antithyroglobulin - protein that binds to the thyroid - mine was normal
Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies (TPO) - mine is in the 400's, upper normal limit was 30 something

So this means I have the autoimmune thyroid condition known as Hashimoto's.

He said that in pregnancy, that number often goes up, so he would recommend retesting after the baby is born to see if it goes down.

He said that it is rare to "only" have an autoimmune thyroid condition, and that often there are other autoimmune problems going on.

He said there was some "Hashi's triad" of problems, and that includes: Celiac, thyroid, and pernicias anemia (sp?). The anemia is a vitamin B12 & folate deficiency. This is because the body is making antibodies against the intrinsic factor (whatever that means), and that the body can't absorb these vitamins very well. He said that sublingual B12 & folic acid and/or injections for life would help. There is a lab test to diagnose the pernicias anemia. (best for me to do after baby is born.)

He said there is further testing that can be done to figure out what's going on with the immune system. He said there are 2 basic causes of immune problems. The first situation is that your immune system has just gone wacky, and there are ways to check for that (no details.)

The second thing to look for is an underlying infection. You check the body for levels of antibodies to certain things that could be possible culprits (heavy metals, viral, bacterial, etc.) and then treat according to the findings.

He said that the initial labwork, at a minimum, would cost around $500 - $700, and it goes up from there. He recommended to not do any of this work until the pregnancy is over, as it can skew numbers.

He said there are things that are good to do right now for everyone with this problem.

1 - no gluten (because of the Hashi's triad)
2 - High intake of Vit D. (either via high vitamin cod liver oil or vit D capsules at hfs. However, you have to research upping vit D alone, as there are co-factors that should go along with it. I would do the CLO because it's a natural source, and co-factors are already present. Just don't o/d on the vit A in there.) My blood level was around 50 (low end of normal), and he wants it around 80 (high end of normal).
3 - glutathione intake. Dr. said that whey powder helps your body make the glutathione. He said there are supplements on the shelves, but these do not do much for your body. He said he has some cream that he likes to give to people, but not me because I'm pregnant.
4 - no iodine supplements - can aggravate this condition

That's it! I'd love to hear input if anyone else's doctor had more input than this.


----------



## Pilgrim

Well - I know I just posted 3 times in a row, but they are all separate situations. So now - on to the question of hair.

My hair is quite long, and has been for a long time. I did cut it to shoulder-length once (and liked it), and was able to donate the cutting to Locks of Love.

So my plan for the past 2 years was to grow it long again, and cut it just before the baby is born so that I could give another donation, and have more manageable hair for having a newborn. During my last pregnancy, my hair grew so nice and stopped falling out, and I was hoping for that to happen again with this pregnancy.

Well - I have noticed more hair coming out now, and I'm wondering if I should do this big haircut? Should I just keep the hair that I've got? I'd hate to not be able to grow it long again. I like it shoulder-length okay, but like it long better. I've got a haircut scheduled for 6 weeks from now. what would you do?


----------



## Kimmiepie

That is what I'm confused about...my lab said normal was up to 150 and I have seen other people say normal is 30 something, 60 something etc. Also from what I've been hearing just the mere presence of antibodies (over like 2 or something) indicates hashi's. I am so lost.









I mean I fluctuate hyper and hypo ALL the time. For example, just the other day I was depressed, feeling fat and puffy, had cold hands and feet, really tired etc. The next day my heart is beating a million miles an hour, I'm shaking and sweating, and I feel like I'm on speed or something (I've never done speed, just a figure of speech







). It seems like exactly what I have.

*sigh* I may never know. lol


----------



## KJoslyn78

Quote:


Originally Posted by *neveryoumindthere* 








Pilgrim, you just gave me hope!
I dont want to be on synthroid, but I cant do armour b/c its made from pig which for religious reasons I cant/dont consume in any form..but I could do sheep

whether here or PM, if you are able to share any info it would be greatly appreciated









what is the difference of synthroid (or the genertic form - levothyroxine) between the pig or sheep form?

i've been on synthroid (well - the genertic) for years and i swear i still don't feel right. Then again i don't trust my Dr as far as i can toss her and am glad we moved last yr and am looking for a new Dr (just being able to switch now).


----------



## airmide_m

Pilgrim before you donate your hair again, please read this thread on what's wrong with locks of love: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ighlight=locks . They are not a reputable charity at all. And besides that, you can make pretty decent money selling it yourself! Either to donate to a charity of your choice or to help out your family : http://www.hairwork.com/bidhere.htm

And if you're interested in learning more about growing your hair, Long Hair Community Forums made a HUGE difference in my hair! In just over a year I've made it from top of my thighs to just below knee length and much healthier! http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/

Someone mentioned STTM being down. In times like that or just in general there's a yahoo group run by the same people that i've found to be VERY helpful: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...yroidHormones/

The difference between Synthroid and natural (armour etc.) is that the natural has T3 as well as T4, and is in a bioidentical form so that your body can absorb it much more easily. It does not have any side effects at all! All it does is give your body *exactly* what it would produce for itself. A lot of people also have trouble converting (stored) t4 to (active) t3 which is another reason it can help so much. And it also contains trace amounts of T1 and T2. You can check out that yahoogroup or www.stopthethyroidmadness.com for more info.

Personal update - I'm doing pretty well though could be better. I found a source so I can treat myself and not be so dependant on doctors. I was starting to feel *really* great but then I cut out wheat and gluten. Now I'm wondering if I could be having a die-off reaction or something? Suddenly ALL my hypo symptoms are back! It's been for the last 2 weeks which is right when I stopped eating wheat. Does anyone else have any info on this? The good news is I'm finally starting to lose weight! I've dropped about 4 pounds or so for the first time in *ages*. My husband is doing even better and has lost 8 pounds! He's not eating sweets which is probably why he's doing better hehe. I'm surprised I haven't missed the wheat or gluten products at ALL (except for one day I wanted grilled cheese but I got over that lol). But I am craving pudding like crazy lol. And I've been coming up with a lot of good easy gluten free recipes.

Also I found a place that you can order your own tests without a doctors prescription, including the full thyroid panel! I'm probably going to do it, though I'm sorta putting it off cause it would be better to find a doc to order it so my insurance would cover it. Even so it's not as overpriced as I thought it might be (someone told me around $125 but that included other tests too)


----------



## NocturnalDaze

Armour also has calcitonin in it which is needed for bone health. If you stay on somthing like Synthroid, you risk osteoporosis later in life...


----------



## WannabeaFarmer

Well I just got my blood drawn for the first time in over a year. My GP wasnt taking a very proactive approach on my thyroid or by checking me for diabetes. So here are my test results(fasting) from the first visit with my new endo:

Sodium ref range 136-145 mmol/l mine was 143
Potassium ref range 3.5-5.1 mine 4.4
Chloride ref range 98-107 mine 103
Carbon Dioxide ref range 22-31 mine 26
Glucose ref range 70-99 mg/dl mine 100(H)
Bun ref range 7-17 mine 9
Creatinine ref range 0.7-1.2 mine 0.7
Calcium ref range 8.6-10.2 mine 9.7
Cholesterol Ref Range <200 mine 173
Triglyceride ref range <150 mine 72
HDL Ref Range >45 mine 46
LDL Calculated Ref range <100 mine 113
TSH My personal ref range is 0.8-2.5 my results were 3.16

So doc put me on name brand synthroid cause I was only getting 80% of the reccomended dose from the generic which was not working for me. Also I am pre-diabetes, and 60lbs overweight for my height which is causing my heart problems. So exercising 3x a week for 30minutes a day isnt enough. gotta up it to 5 days a week for 60 minutes a day...







when I can find the time.....
Plus I have completely lost the feeling of hunger, gained 17lbs in 6 weeks, I have to take a b-vitamin in order to feel hungry and actually digest food. every time I eat it comes right back up(reflux), and it seems to take me forver to digest anything I eat without taking anything to help it along. I feel as though my body has completely shut down. -I really dont think that the synthroid will help but I wil find out in 6 weeks I guess when I go back in for my next test-
SO thats my update....


----------



## Pilgrim

Quote:


Originally Posted by *airmide_m* 
Pilgrim before you donate your hair again, please read this thread on what's wrong with locks of love: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ighlight=locks . They are not a reputable charity at all. And besides that, you can make pretty decent money selling it yourself! Either to donate to a charity of your choice or to help out your family : http://www.hairwork.com/bidhere.htm

Thank you very much for this information!! I am still planning to cut my hair, but I was going to cut off several inches more than I wanted just to get a good donation. I think I'll just get a haircut I like and not worry about this anymore! That's a load off!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *airmide_m* 
And if you're interested in learning more about growing your hair, Long Hair Community Forums made a HUGE difference in my hair! In just over a year I've made it from top of my thighs to just below knee length and much healthier! http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/

Wow, that's amazing! Thanks for that link too - this will come in handy for growing it long again.


----------



## Kimmiepie

This is what I was told by an endocrinologist on thedoctorslounge.com:

Quote:

Hi Kimbers25,

Essentially all your studies are normal. In particular, your TSH and T4 are normal, making the thyroid unlikely to be causing your symptoms.

The TPO (or thyroid peroxidase) antibodies are antibodies against the thyroid gland. If they are elevated enough they can damage the thyroid gland causing an autoimmune thyroiditis.

Your levels are not particularly concerning although it may be useful to test them again in several months.

Unfortunately, based on these tests you have not found the cause of your symptoms. I would recommend you continue to follow up with your doctor for further evaluation.

Best wishes.
This makes me so angry. He actually said _based on these tests you have not found the cause of your symptoms_. He is completely following the normal ranges and refuses to believe that my symptoms that are totally thyroid symptoms could be causing it. I don't know why it makes me so mad. It just does.


----------



## bigeyes

Does it violate the UA to tell you that as a general rule endos suck?









find a homeopathic doc or a naturopath, or look into self treating. PM me for more info.


----------



## mamaMAMAma

Newbie to this thread... I think I might be hypo. I was talking to a friend who happened to be a family doctor yesterday that my heart rate was always low. I'm training for a marathon right now and she said whats your heart rate? I said I haven't checked it for a while. She suggested I checked it then. Its 36. And she "verified" it. I wonder what my resting heart rate is now. I was diagnosed with bradycardia 15 years ago. I also have very cold feet at night (I noticed the night before that my feet were cold all night long - and its summertime!) I was taking coconut oil for a few months and my feet were warm. I got off it a few weeks ago and have definitely noticed a shift. I've also been feeling really tired in the afternoon. I took a 2 hour nap with dd#2 just today.
I'm thinking about getting tested... I just hate seeing the doc. Should I get tested? And are there ways to self treat?


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnysideup* 
My dd has autoimmune thyroid disease and Chronic Urticaria. Anyone else dealing with this?

DD's been living with this for over a year, and it only seems to be getting worse. More rash, more swelling, more pain. She sees a pediatric rheumatologist and endocrinologist, but nothing the dr.s do seems to help.


I haven't read recent messages yet so forgive if this is a repeat... but have you investigated gluten allergy?

Get the best testing done at www.enterolab.com. Read the article on that site entitled "Before the Villi are Gone" ... many autoimmune diseases can be connected to gluten allergy.

Chronic hives just scream food allergies too.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pilgrim* 
He said there was some "Hashi's triad" of problems, and that includes: Celiac, thyroid, and pernicias anemia (sp?). The anemia is a vitamin B12 & folate deficiency. This is because the body is making antibodies against the intrinsic factor (whatever that means), and that the body can't absorb these vitamins very well.

The B12 intrinsic factor is governed by stomach acid production, which is often low in thyroid patients. The best book on stomach acid and how reducing it causes a myraid of problems is Dr. Wright's "Why Stomach Acid is Good for You".

I would start taking Betaine HCL supplements with every protein meal. And eat a lot of protein, especially red meats.

The Iodine Project connects it to low iodine, b/c iodine receptors in the stomach lining controls prodution of hydrochloric acid (I think it is Dr. Flechas website that has info on this).


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pilgrim* 
3 - glutathione intake. Dr. said that whey powder helps your body make the glutathione. He said there are supplements on the shelves, but these do not do much for your body. He said he has some cream that he likes to give to people, but not me because I'm pregnant.

High vitamin C will boost glutathione production.
If you do go with whey, use a low temp product that doesn't render the proteins toxic. Garden of Life or Mt. Capra are the only brands I know of.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kimmiepie* 
This is what I was told by an endocrinologist on thedoctorslounge.com:

This makes me so angry. He actually said _based on these tests you have not found the cause of your symptoms_. He is completely following the normal ranges and refuses to believe that my symptoms that are totally thyroid symptoms could be causing it. I don't know why it makes me so mad. It just does.

This is why I think Wilson's Low Temp Syndrome or "thyroid resistance" makes sense.
http://www.cnm-inc.com/art_wilsyn.pdf
Your gland can be working fine, merrily producing the hormones but it's somehow not getting into your cells to do it's job and thus producing symptoms.

Have you taken your temps? The Broda Barnes Foundation recommends the BBT first thing in AM and Wilson recommends 3x day.

www.drbrownstein.com connects many nutritional deficiencies to this problem, as I've posted above. Conventional endo's do not believe in nutritional deficiencies.


----------



## JaneS

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaMAMAma* 
And are there ways to self treat?

I think you should at least get some baseline blood testing just to be sure.

You can also self-test by taking your temps.

Read about nutritional deficiencies in my posts above.


----------



## runes

ugh.

i'm just coming here to vent a bit.

had a whole slew of thyroid related blood testing done last week and i called my MD this morning to get the results faxed to me.

they won't release them!







:

now i have to switch my appointment with my naturopath until next week, as my follow up appointment with the regular doctor isn't until then.

THEY'RE *MY* RECORDS!!!! just stick them in the fax machine and send them to me!!










thank you, i feel much better after getting that off my chest.


----------



## JaneS

How to do BBT test:
http://www.womenshealthconnection.com/pdf/thyroid.pdf


----------



## sunnysideup

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
I haven't read recent messages yet so forgive if this is a repeat... but have you investigated gluten allergy?

Get the best testing done at www.enterolab.com. Read the article on that site entitled "Before the Villi are Gone" ... many autoimmune diseases can be connected to gluten allergy.

Chronic hives just scream food allergies too.

My daughter does not have any of the digestive problems that are the main component of Celiac disease.

Hives generally are allergy related, but that's not the case with hers. There's a theory that this type of autoimmune disorder is caused by vaccines.

Thanks for the ideas. It's so frustrating and heartbreaking to see her suffering with this, and not be able to do anything about it.


----------



## Pilgrim

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
The B12 intrinsic factor is governed by stomach acid production, which is often low in thyroid patients. The best book on stomach acid and how reducing it causes a myraid of problems is Dr. Wright's "Why Stomach Acid is Good for You".

I would start taking Betaine HCL supplements with every protein meal. And eat a lot of protein, especially red meats.

The Iodine Project connects it to low iodine, b/c iodine receptors in the stomach lining controls prodution of hydrochloric acid (I think it is Dr. Flechas website that has info on this).

Thanks for this. I already take HCL with every protein meal, and I also eat tons of red meats!


----------



## Pilgrim

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnysideup* 
My daughter does not have any of the digestive problems that are the main component of Celiac disease.

Hives generally are allergy related, but that's not the case with hers. There's a theory that this type of autoimmune disorder is caused by vaccines.

Thanks for the ideas. It's so frustrating and heartbreaking to see her suffering with this, and not be able to do anything about it.









I think you should do the enterolab testing anyway. It is entirely possible to not have any classic Celiac symptoms, or any symptoms, and still be sensitive to gluten. That is the case with me. I have no digestive problems (that I can "see" or "feel"), and yet I have auto-immune thyroid and other auto-immune problems, which are probably related to my life-long intake of gluten. Also, I'm obviously not digesting my foods properly because I'm not absorbing my nutrition properly.

If I were to go out and eat a huge chunk of bread, I would not feel any different. I spent 2 1/2 years being gluten-free (while nursing DD), and then when I weaned her (for dental work), I went back to eating gluten for 6 months. I felt absolutely zero difference. But then I had the testing done on myself to prepare for this pregnancy, and viola - I'm definitely sensitive to gluten and have intestinal damage.

My doc says that auto-immune thyroid problems automatically gets you a doctor's order to stay off of gluten.

With all of the suffering that your daughter is going through, it would be highly worth it to investigate it.


----------



## karenh

I took my son in to pediatrician yesterday for 6 mo. check up and mentioned to her that I've been losing a lot of hair lately and that I assumed it was just a post-pregnancy hormone related thing. She suggested that I get my thyroid level checked as pregnancy can throw your thyroid out of whack. I think the hair loss is my only symptom, though. I've been reading what other women are going through and I don't have any of that. I don't have insurance at the moment, so I don't want to get tested and then not be able to afford meds, anyway. What does synthroid cost a month? Do symptoms start slowly and mildly, or is everything all to once? Could my hair loss be from breastfeeding and hormone changes related to that? I'm getting a little panicky about it. My hair has always been thin - I can't afford to lose too much more!


----------



## JaneS

Hair loss pp can be hormonal and also mineral deficiencies caused by huge draw of making another person out of your body stores!


----------



## airmide_m

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karenh* 
I don't have insurance at the moment, so I don't want to get tested and then not be able to afford meds, anyway. What does synthroid cost a month? My hair has always been thin - I can't afford to lose too much more!


If hair loss is a concern for you I would NOT take synthroid even for a minute. Hair loss is a known side effect of synthroid and a lot of people, myself included, experienced *massive* hair loss when on synthroid. Besides the fact that it is just not as good as natural in every other way.

There are sources where you can get Armour or other natural thyroid meds and they are not that expensive. It will depend on your dosage how much but I think it shouldn't be too bad of a cost.

I would suggest you go ahead with the tests, but make sure she tests for Free T3 and antibodies as well as TSH and Free t4 so you have all the info you need. Or you can see how much it costs to order those tests on www.healthcheckusa.com and see if it would be cheaper for you that way since you're not using insurance anyway.

Then post to STTM or better yet, join the yahoogroup naturalthyroidhormones and post your results there. They will be able to help you interpret them and if it looks like you need medication they can help you with that as well.

There's really no need to stress about it. Aside from the initial cost of the tests, you can get daily treatment pretty affordably. Just to give you an idea I think my daily dosage costs around an average of 50 cents a day.


----------



## airmide_m

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidspiration* 
had a whole slew of thyroid related blood testing done last week and i called my MD this morning to get the results faxed to me.

they won't release them!







:

now i have to switch my appointment with my naturopath until next week, as my follow up appointment with the regular doctor isn't until then.

I know its' probably too late now anyway but I wanted to let you know - I know in my state and I believe it's the same in every state, they are required to release your test results to you. They may not want to fax them because of HIPPA and it may take a couple of days to get them. But you should be able to go to whatever hospital or lab drew or processed them if you don't want to go through your doctor (even if your doctor did the draw, chances are they sent it out somewhere else to be processed). I've just called hospital records and they find my results and have me come in and sign a release form and hand the papers to me.


----------



## airmide_m

Sorry for the multiple posts, I haven't read this thread in a while and am working my way up from bottom hehe

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaMAMAma* 
Newbie to this thread... I think I might be hypo. I was talking to a friend who happened to be a family doctor yesterday that my heart rate was always low. I'm training for a marathon right now and she said whats your heart rate? I said I haven't checked it for a while. She suggested I checked it And she "verified" it. I wonder what my resting heart rate is now. I was diagnosed with bradycardia 15 years ago. I also have very cold feet night (at I noticed the night before that my feet were cold all night long - and its summertime!) I was taking coconut oil for a few months and my feet were warm. I got off it a few weeks ago and have definitely noticed a shift. I've also been feeling really tired in the afternoon. I took a 2 hour nap with dd#2 just today.
I'm thinking about getting tested... I just hate seeing the doc. Should I get tested? And are there ways to self treat?


Those are all classic symptoms of hypothyroid so yes you should get tested! check out the yahoogroup naturalthyroidhormones . They have lists of good docs and there might be one in your area. Or maybe you could get your friend to order the tests for you. Make *sure* you get tested for antibodies and free T3 as well as the standard TSH and free t4. If you can't find a doc willing to do those tests (or just don't want to look for one) you can order the tests yourself at www.healthcheckusa.com but of course they'll be a bit more expensive that way since insurance won't pay for them.

Then post your results to the yahoogroup and yes, if you do have thyroid problems there are ways to self treat.

I forgot to mention in my previous post but often adrenal problems go hand in hand with thyroid problems, and it can be very important to get those fixed before starting thyroid medication. You can order your own adrenal and hormone tests through http://www.canaryclub.org/content/view/196/52/ .


----------



## purplegirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaMAMAma* 
Newbie to this thread... I think I might be hypo. I was talking to a friend who happened to be a family doctor yesterday that my heart rate was always low. I'm training for a marathon right now and she said whats your heart rate? I said I haven't checked it for a while. She suggested I checked it then. Its 36. And she "verified" it. I wonder what my resting heart rate is now. I was diagnosed with bradycardia 15 years ago. I also have very cold feet at night (I noticed the night before that my feet were cold all night long - and its summertime!) I was taking coconut oil for a few months and my feet were warm. I got off it a few weeks ago and have definitely noticed a shift. I've also been feeling really tired in the afternoon. I took a 2 hour nap with dd#2 just today.
I'm thinking about getting tested... I just hate seeing the doc. Should I get tested? And are there ways to self treat?


Omg, I am experiencing the same freaking thing. My pulse rate stays low but my last TSH level was normal. I had a total thyroidectomy and I am certain the synthroid isn't working properly. My doctor is sending me for all sorts of tests but I know I am hypo!!!







:


----------



## jamie79

OK, I just want to cry. I had several test done last week to check my thyroid and see why I feel so bad. This is waht has come back so far...

TSH was 1.22, with at normal range of .4-4.0
Total T3 was 77, with normal range of 60-181
T3 uptake was 33, with a normal range of 22-35

My blood pressure is 100/60, low but considered good by the doc.

I have weight gain, hair loss, muscle weakness, tingling in muscles, fatigue, totally "out of it", can't concentrate well, forgetful, horrible anxiety. This is just stuff I can remember right now.

Can someone help me understand why I feel this way, if my test results are supposedly "normal"? Or, should I just dismiss the results and press on? I know something is wrong. I have ran all over the internet, googling my symptoms and come up with these awful, life threatening diseases and convince myself that I must have them. So, it is really disheartening to see normal results. My mind automatically goes back to those awful diseases.

FYI, I just had my OB do the tests. There are no good naturopaths around here, that I have found. I would have a drive if I want a good ND. I am willing to drive, but was really hoping I could find someone closer.

Sorry for the long post...


----------



## Kimmiepie

Oh I know how you feel.









Have you had your adrenals and hormones tested?


----------



## zane

Check here for details on lab tests and results. www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

The tests you took really don't give you a lot of information. Do you have thryoid antibodies? That makes a huge difference. TSH is not always a good indicator of anything. More important are your FREE Ts. You need a Free T4 and a Free T3 test. These need to be HIGH normal, not just in the range. Then there are other tests like cortisol and ferritin than can be telling. There is lots of good thyroid information out there, just not many doctors have read it.

Keep pursuing this, you are more than just lab results.


----------



## jamie79

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kimmiepie* 
Oh I know how you feel.









Have you had your adrenals and hormones tested?

Not yet. That is next step, I suppose. I just really wanted this to be the test that would take care of it all, ya know? Our lives are so busy, that it is hard to carve out time do all of this testing and dr. visits and stuff. Even though, I know it is necessary. Thanks for the hugs


----------



## jamie79

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zane* 
Check here for details on lab tests and results. www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

The tests you took really don't give you a lot of information. Do you have thryoid antibodies? That makes a huge difference. TSH is not always a good indicator of anything. More important are your FREE Ts. You need a Free T4 and a Free T3 test. These need to be HIGH normal, not just in the range. Then there are other tests like cortisol and ferritin than can be telling. There is lots of good thyroid information out there, just not many doctors have read it.

Keep pursuing this, you are more than just lab results.

I guess I just assumed that this would be what I needed. I will have to make a point to get into a different doctor to get these others tested. My OB wasn't all that excited about doing these tests. I practically had to beg him. Stupid.

My mom was a nurse, a very good nurse, who actually cared about the patient. So, when I encounter a medical professional who really could care less, it comes as a shock, ya know?

Thanks,
Jamie


----------



## Pilgrim

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jamie79* 
OK, I just want to cry. I had several test done last week to check my thyroid and see why I feel so bad. This is waht has come back so far...

TSH was 1.22, with at normal range of .4-4.0
Total T3 was 77, with normal range of 60-181
T3 uptake was 33, with a normal range of 22-35

My blood pressure is 100/60, low but considered good by the doc.

I have weight gain, hair loss, muscle weakness, tingling in muscles, fatigue, totally "out of it", can't concentrate well, forgetful, horrible anxiety. This is just stuff I can remember right now.

Can someone help me understand why I feel this way, if my test results are supposedly "normal"? Or, should I just dismiss the results and press on? I know something is wrong. I have ran all over the internet, googling my symptoms and come up with these awful, life threatening diseases and convince myself that I must have them. So, it is really disheartening to see normal results. My mind automatically goes back to those awful diseases.

Sorry for the long post...









I just wanted to let you know that my close friend had the *exact* same symptoms. We were both convinced that it was her thyroid, but in fact, it was anemia. Get your ferritin level checked.


----------



## purplegirl

I had a total thyroidectomy in Oct. 2006. I am currently on synthroid 125mcg. I went slightly hyper in May so the meds were adjusted. Had TSH level done in late July which was around (1. something). Over the past three days I have been awaken in the middle of the night with rapid, pounding heartbeat, increased pulse rate and blood pressure is high. Up until this week, my blood pressure had been great and pulse rate running on the low side.
Do you think I might be hyper again? I am trying to reach my doctor because it is frightening me badly. Any suggestions would be helpful.


----------



## middlemamma

I am very tired, the only way I can explain is "pregnant tired". I have taken preg test and it was negative for baby. I feel yuk....like I have a cold coming on but it isn't coming on. I started going to the gym reguraly three weeks ago and these symptoms came on at the end of the second week. I went and bought a liquid multi vitamin and magnesium to counteract the fatigue. They have provided no change. I have struggled with depression on and off all my life and do not feel particulary down right now although I have felt sad some mornings this week on my way to work. I have a lot of hair and have always lost a lot reguraly I have not noticed losing anymore than usual. Maybe a LITTLE more. I have horrible pain in my jaw, on both sides. I also have a pain in the back of my right thigh. It is achy and sometimes the back of my leg falls asleep. It is extremely annoying but not horribly painful. Sometimes it just feels like it needs to be stretched but when I do that there is no relief. I have not lost a pound in the 3 weeks I have been working out but I have not gained any either. I have maintained the same weight for 3 years. My skin is not overly dry. I am always constiptated normally. (for the past 6 years since I had first DC)

This is all the info i can provide. Can anyone help me figure out what may be wrong with me? The fatigue is unnerving. I am terrified...I need to find an answer. I cannot live this tired. Oh and did i mention that I absolutely ABHORE the idea of going to a dr. and having to be on a pill for the rest of my life? Are there ANY natural treatments if this is thyroid? No history of thyroid problems in my family either. Also I went to a chiro on thursday and was adjusted and got some relief from the pain in my jaw briefly, maybe I need oto go again?

ANY AND ALL HELP APPRECIATED....
Middlemamma


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## dannic

Quote:


Originally Posted by *airmide_m;8876858helpful: [url*
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormones/[/url]

Also I found a place that you can order your own tests without a doctors prescription, including the full thyroid panel! I'm probably going to do it, though I'm sorta putting it off cause it would be better to find a doc to order it so my insurance would cover it. Even so it's not as overpriced as I thought it might be (someone told me around $125 but that included other tests too)

Could you tell me where? I've been wanting this done...


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## EMS

Could anyone help me figure this out? My doctor said my thyroid was a little low. The test I had was TSH with reflex the FT4, and the number was 1.87. She wants to retest it (that was about 4 months ago). What should the number be ideally? Are there other tests that they should do? (I do have some symptoms, but they're not severe, kind of vague, or attributable to other things as well.)
Anything I can do with diet?
Also, my cholesterol was really high (260)--anyone have experience with a thyroid connection with this?
Thanks!


----------



## G's mommy

Hello! I just found this thread after being away for a while (got a new computer, yay!). Anyway here is my deal...
Have been hypothyroid off and on for about 5 years and took Synthroid off and on - seemed to be euthyroid when I was pregnant. Actually found out I was hypothyroid when I was doing fertility monitoring and checking basal temps- was looooooow.
So, lately I have been fine- off Synthroid for nearly 2 years and found a lump on my neck a month and a half ago. Had labs done- TSH and T4 and were normal, had an ultrasound done- revealed a 2cm mass on the left side. Had a biopsy done- it appears to be a goiter, but carcinoma cannot be completely ruled out, so I have to have it rebiopsied in October. I have checked my basal temps lately and are low- 96.2-97. And I feel some hypo symptoms- fatigue, constipation, weight gain but hungry alot.
I briefly saw a naturopathic dr, but insurance doesn't cover her, so I am trying to find out more on my own. I was wanting a natural supplement if there is one to help me feel better and maybe shrink my goiter. Does anybody know of one? The naturopath suggested Spectra 305 T (I think that's right)- has anyone taken it? If so, good results or no results??

TIA for your help and support!!


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## NocturnalDaze

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EMS* 
Could anyone help me figure this out? My doctor said my thyroid was a little low. The test I had was TSH with reflex the FT4, and the number was 1.87. She wants to retest it (that was about 4 months ago). What should the number be ideally? Are there other tests that they should do? (I do have some symptoms, but they're not severe, kind of vague, or attributable to other things as well.)
Anything I can do with diet?
Also, my cholesterol was really high (260)--anyone have experience with a thyroid connection with this?
Thanks!

High colesterol is a symptom of hypo: http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/long-and-pathetic/

Do you know what the lab range was for your FT4? Ideally the result should be in the top 1/3 of the range or just above range.....


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## jamie79

Here are the results of my labs. Of course, to the doctor, I am fine.

TSH was 1.22, range is 0.4-4.0
Total 3T was 77, range is 60-181
T3 uptake was 33, range is 22-35
Free T3 was 285, range is 230-420
DHEA was 192, range is 130-980
T3 reverse was 21, range is 11-32
Estrogen was 493, range is 70-900
SED rate was 2, range is less than 20
Ferritin was 19, range is 10-154
Vitamin B12 was 431, range is 200-1100
Progesterone was 0.9, range is less than 1.4-2.8
Free T4 was 1.1, range is 0.8-1.8
Total testosterone was 36, range is 20-76
thyroid antibodies was less than 20, range is less than 20

OK, that was a lot to write. Any feedback would be great. I have a lot of hypo symptoms, have TONS of family members with this crap and and more than a little upset that the doctor says I am "normal". I also have a high cholesterol of 250! I was so shocked about that one.

Jamie


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## beanma

thanks for reminding me about the high cholesterol connection. i think i'm a little undertreated, but hesitant to try a higher dose because i had some wicked anxiety last winter (exacerbated by the holidays and lack of daylight and cold temps and caffiene, all.) my care-provider didn't think my thyroid was too low, but i felt fairly crappy. she also found high cholesterol (which does run in my family). i'm really not doing anything about that right now, but i think i'd rather try a little more synthroid than a cholesterol-lowering drug.


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## Whittliz

I haven't had a chance to read through this thread, but definitely subbing!

I have had 2 m/c in the last 3 months and my blood tests say my thyroid is OK, but my hair analysis with my chiro says it's REALLY under active.







:

So, I'm currently taking Standard Process Brand Thytrophin PMG three times a day. Anybody else take a natural supplement like this and see great results?


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## Pilgrim

Two years ago, my ND diagnosed me with thyroid troubles (DD was 2 and I had no cycles yet.) I had no bloodwork done, but she put me on Thytrophin PMG (based on low basal temps), and in 6 weeks, I got my cycles, and my temps went up! I stayed on it for about a year, and then it was time to ttc, and she took me off of it. For the record, I had major dental problems for the next year, so we delayed ttc, which is why I'm just now pregnant!


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## jamie79

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pilgrim* 
Two years ago, my ND diagnosed me with thyroid troubles (DD was 2 and I had no cycles yet.) I had no bloodwork done, but she put me on Thytrophin PMG (based on low basal temps), and in 6 weeks, I got my cycles, and my temps went up! I stayed on it for about a year, and then it was time to ttc, and she took me off of it. For the record, I had major dental problems for the next year, so we delayed ttc, which is why I'm just now pregnant!

Congratulations on the pregnancy! Yay for a good ND!


----------



## jamie79

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jamie79* 
Here are the results of my labs. Of course, to the doctor, I am fine.

TSH was 1.22, range is 0.4-4.0
Total 3T was 77, range is 60-181
T3 uptake was 33, range is 22-35
Free T3 was 285, range is 230-420
DHEA was 192, range is 130-980
T3 reverse was 21, range is 11-32
Estrogen was 493, range is 70-900
SED rate was 2, range is less than 20
Ferritin was 19, range is 10-154
Vitamin B12 was 431, range is 200-1100
Progesterone was 0.9, range is less than 1.4-2.8
Free T4 was 1.1, range is 0.8-1.8
Total testosterone was 36, range is 20-76
thyroid antibodies was less than 20, range is less than 20

OK, that was a lot to write. Any feedback would be great. I have a lot of hypo symptoms, have TONS of family members with this crap and and more than a little upset that the doctor says I am "normal". I also have a high cholesterol of 250! I was so shocked about that one.

Jamie

FTR, I posted over on the message boards for realthyroidhelp.com, which is the new boards for STTM, since they closed down







and they told me my ferritin was way too low, that it should be up around 70-90 and also my B12 was too low & that it should be around 1000! These ranges that the medical establishment has are just way too low and too broad. Not everyone is going to fit into the perfect little boxes. So I am supplementing with iron and b12. Can't wait to feel better. I also need to do the adrenal/cortisol saliva test. I am sure I have some adrenal fatigue going on.


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## Whittliz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pilgrim* 
Two years ago, my ND diagnosed me with thyroid troubles (DD was 2 and I had no cycles yet.) I had no bloodwork done, but she put me on Thytrophin PMG (based on low basal temps), and in 6 weeks, I got my cycles, and my temps went up! I stayed on it for about a year, and then it was time to ttc, and she took me off of it. For the record, I had major dental problems for the next year, so we delayed ttc, which is why I'm just now pregnant!

I'm glad to hear that it worked for you.........just curious, any reason your ND took you off of it while TTC? My chiro suggested that I stay on it while TTC and pregnant. I have also had 2 m/c, so I think she may blame my thyroid and adrenal fatigue. I'm also on Standard Process Drenamin for that too.







:


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## calicocj

I had high cholesterol as well, when I tested extremely hypo; but after about 6 months of thyroid treatment, no change in diet; same level of exercise, the cholesterol went down dramatically....


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## EMS

Quote:

I had high cholesterol as well, when I tested extremely hypo; but after about 6 months of thyroid treatment, no change in diet; same level of exercise, the cholesterol went down dramatically....
Good to know.
Also, does anyone have experience with acupuncture or Chinese herbs helping with thyroid issues?
Or homeopathic thyroid medication?
(I'm interested in see what non-medication options are first.)
Thanks!


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## EMS

One more question: is "TSH with reflex to FT4" the same as TSH? Or is it something else?


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## tanyalynn

EMS, my hypothyroid is gone, as far as I can tell. I went the non-medication route. Nutritional supplements (selenium, iodine, zinc, and some vitamins--A, B, C, and E) were important, ... kids just got home, I'll post more later (PM me if I don't get back soon enough). One key for me, though, was figuring out why I'd become hypothyroid in the first place. My mercury fillings made me susceptible, then not taking care of myself. gotta run


----------



## Pilgrim

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Whittliz* 
I'm glad to hear that it worked for you.........just curious, any reason your ND took you off of it while TTC? My chiro suggested that I stay on it while TTC and pregnant. I have also had 2 m/c, so I think she may blame my thyroid and adrenal fatigue. I'm also on Standard Process Drenamin for that too.







:

I don't know why my ND took me off. I didn't ask her pointed, specific questions, and she said that my thyroid was only "slightly problematic" to begin with and that I should be fine without it. I think she's just not big on supplementation while pregnant. I stopped seeing her shortly after that event - only because I had a recommendation for a new ND that was a lot closer to my home, who turned out to be a dud!


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## tanyalynn

EMS-I'm working with an acupuncturist on my health issues right now. For the hypothyroid problem, by taking a lot of vitamins/minerals on my own before I met her, my symptoms went away, and she's helping me with other things, but she seemed very knowledgeable and comfortable with the thyroid issue (yeah, I edited that sentence a lot and it's sorta messy--sorry). I'd think you'd be able to find someone who could do the same for you. It seems to be an open secret in alternative medicine circles--I also interviewed a chiropractor and he seemed completely comfortable with helping with the thyroid problem too.

The thing I would not have twigged to on my own (and was darn skeptical when she suggested it) was that my amalgam fillings played a role in my current health problems. But through talking to her more, reading on my own, and trying a GFCF diet, I'm now convinced it has played a role in my health problems (I thought it was just a family susceptibility--my mom, 3 aunts and grandmother are all on thyroid meds now). The other part was stress, which just wore my body down, and I didn't do a good job with healthy eating.

I've found this to be quite manageable, though it has sparked a complete overhaul of our lifestyle and eating habits.


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## neveryoumindthere

Hi Tanya.
I'm reading your posts with interest. I have quite a few amalgam fillings..Did you have them removed?
Also, what's GFCF (i think the first part is gluten free?)


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## tanyalynn

I haven't gotten mine out yet. My health, well, it sorta sucks at the moment. My hypothyroid seems gone, and my adrenal fatigue is recovering (I got a real boost by going gluten-free, casein-free, but I think part of that was timing as to how I was feeling (really bad, just after I started treatment) when I started). Overall, though, I haven't eaten well in years and a couple stressful events in the past few years just drained my body and started this snowball of poor health, and so now I'm working to transform our eating--the traditional foods idea looks like the best idea I see around, so that's my goal.

My plan is to keep my health improving and wait for my son's last 4 teeth to come in (he's 16mos old now, and his teeth have come in early), which I expect to happen by Christmas-ish, and then I'll wean him so that I can get my fillings removed in January, maybe February. It was a bummer to decide that I needed my fillings removed and try to balance his need to nurse with the mercury he's getting daily from me and my need to get these things out of my mouth. He'll be about 21mos old then and with all his teeth in, I think he'll be sleeping better at night--right now, it would just be stressful and unhappy-making for all of us.

I'm working with an acupuncturist who does environmental medicine and she's guiding me through this, so I'll be chelating after the amalgam removal with her help. I can't take much to do things like detox while I'm nursing, and lately I've wondered if I'm going to need more time after I wean my son before I should get these fillings out (planning to ask about that next week). I am hopeful that a year after I get my fillings out, my health will be good enough that we can consider whether we are ready to think about ttc.

That was a bit of a ramble. Sorry. GFCF has been huge for me, and the effect I saw (it was dramatic, the first day I was sort of irritable and jittery, but in a day and a half I got a bump in energy that's continued for 4 months now--not a solution to the adrenal fatigue, but a real boost) convinced me that the mercury is a problem for me. I don't think it's as dramatic for everyone, and it's a pain, but it's actually been the biggest thing to help me do our own cooking and really start to get into the traditional foods thing.


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## EMS

Thanks for your response, Tanya. I have seen an acupuncturist for other things, so I'm going to talk to her about this.
Yet another question: I'm rereading The Mood Cure and The Diet Cure, which I've found helpful for other ailments. She suggests amino acids (specifically tyrosine) as part of the treatment for hypothyroid. Does anyone have experience with this? It seems like such a noninvasive option (though who knows how effective). But maybe worth a try?


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## tanyalynn

I took tyrosine (along with a ton of other things, check out ithyroid.com to get an idea) but since it was with so much other stuff, I can't tell what its individual effect was. Although I did it on my own, at the time I didn't realize that it was quite reasonable to expect to find an alternative HCP who could help with this. I think it would have been faster, and less stressful, had I gone that route.

ETA: But I really think the minerals/vitamins are key in terms of pills taken. I think other stuff can probably provide good support (and diet/lifestyle changes were clearly necessary for me) but I think those pills are needed. JMO.


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## runes

just wanted to post my own experience that going GFCF also helped to turn around my thyroid issues. i had subclinical lab values, but was having some symptoms of hypo-. the change was pretty immediate, too, like tanyalopez experienced. the first day i felt really jittery but after that, the brain fog feeling lifted, and i had more energy and motivation than i have had in a while. i also lost 4 pounds almost immediately and completely effortlessly.

at the same time, i started taking a supplement that has a little bit of dessicated cow thyroid (certainly not as much as armour), and it is balanced with minerals and amino acids to support the thyroid. in addition, i'm taking a bit of maca root, which is supposed to support and heal the adrenals and whole hypothalamus-pituitary hormonal feedback loop, which the thyroid is part of.


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## tanyalynn

Really, kidspiration? I had no idea other folks had similar experiences. I lost weight too, 15lbs for me.


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## neveryoumindthere

Is there any literature I could read about going GFCF and it's relation to thyroid troubles? I'd love to learn more about this!


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## tanyalynn

The reading I did was mercury to thyroid, and mercury to GFCF, I didn't see anything directly from GFCF to thyroid, but it may be out there. I found some reading on the IAOMT website about mercury and thyroid in some of the studies they've got links to (I don't remember which papers, exactly--I skimmed a lot). And just yesterday, in the June-ish 07 part of the chelating mamas thread over in dental, there were some links I wanted to follow about mercury and iodine receptors in the thyroid.

ETA: I should have been clearer, I never found a smoking gun, nothing that definitive. The link below always has a lot of research citations for thyroid-related things, and a nice page on mercury is included. But this, plus some of the papers from the IAOMT site, plus my HCP's assertion that I wasn't at all atypical, in her experience, added up to this being a real possibility, albeit an annoying and rather scary one.

http://ithyroid.com/mercury.htm


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## Whittliz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Really, kidspiration? I had no idea other folks had similar experiences. I lost weight too, 15lbs for me.

Just wanted to jump in and say that after figuring out that my adrenals and thyroid were not doing so well, I also changed my diet. Didn't go gluten free, but I did cut out big dairy (milk, yogurt, cheese) and also cut out white flour & sugar.

Lost 10 pounds in 2 months!


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## beautyful

Just reminding myself to come back to this thread later.

My thyroid is currently overactive, and I tested positive for antibodies. They ran the Graves antibodies test yesterday, so I won't know about that for a week.

The doctor isn't in favor of treatment, because she thinks it's likely a temporary condition. (And I'm not sure she feels comfortable prescribing to a nursing mother.)

It's really really frustrating, because I don't feel like myself but I'm not sick enough to warrant any relief. I think the irritability is the worst!

Hives for two months is what sent me to an allergist who tested my thyroid. The endo said that hyperthyroidism doesn't usually cause hives.







: So I guess if those come back after I stop the prednisone/antihistamines I'm on, I'm back to square one.


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## MotheringHeart

Hey thyroid ladies. I had thyroid cancer in '04 and got the left lobe removed. Fast forward to now, I'm five months pp w/.#4 babe and having major thyroid symptoms. Dr does tests says they're all *normal*. I *know* this is bulls#$% and made another appointment w/a different Dr. This weekend I discovered that remaining right lobe is very enlarged and tender to the touch. I've got a drs apoint on Monday, but am seriously worried that this means cancer is back/there and surgery and radioactive iodine are in my near future. I'm just at a loss. Let me know what your experiences are/were, please. I want to hear of other mamas like me!


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## Bestbirths

Hey thyroid mamas. I am in trouble. I have blocked and infected salivary glands and salivary stones, no insurance, and leave on a plane in 3 days for my daughter's dream factory trip to Orlando. I got a dentist to rx me amoxocillin which I just started taking. I am taking echinachea, 12,000 mg a day sodium ascorbate, zinc, thyroid and adrenal supplements, psyillium husk, milk thistle, homeopathic "mumps" remedy, olive leaf extract, coQ10, chlorophyll, tanzi tea, sweetish bitters, B-50, vit E, B 12, oreganol, oregon grape leaf and probiotics. I feel like I might have a systemic infection that even amoxocillin and all of these supplements aren't coping with.

Its the glands under the tongue. I can feel the stones too. There are a lot of them in a big clump.
I've also been saunaing twice a day. Any chance these stones will pass do you think? Any experiences with this? I had a bunch of amalgams removed five years ago.


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## amyjeans

I posted this elsewhere, but maybe you all can help me.
I really have a major problem. For the past 2 months it seems, along with my nausea- I am literally exhausted 24-7. I have no interested in anything anymore, I just want to curl up, but sleep doesn't seem to interest me at all.
I just do things like eat and sleep and shower and manage the kids because I have to. But if I didn't have to do anything, I think I would be equally miserable.
I yawn ALL DAY! I never get more tired, it just seems I am at the same level of fatigue and disinterest all day and night.
I have food cravings, but am not that interested in pursuing them.
Do you know what I mean?
Any thoughts? It is making me crazy! And everyone is suffering.

I am 11 weeks preg also.
my sleep is awful- I sleep for about 2 hrs at a time, then wake for 1-20 min, and repeat every night.
I feel achey, sweaty off and on, want to throw up but don't (different than morning sickness)
I feel terribly weak, out of breath from walking up 1 flt of stairs and litteraly can't lift a finger around here.

Thanks for listening.


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## NocturnalDaze

I've think posted this before on the thread but that is exactly how I felt both times I was pregnant last year. I could barely even function and I spent most days on the couch. Have you had your cortisol levels checked?

My exhaustion was due to my adrenal insufficiency. I've been taking Hydrocortisone through this pregnancy and I feel fanatasic this time around.


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## amyjeans

okay -my labs say my tsh levels are 36.44, should be 4.21. The ob office says- get to an endo, I am seeing an ostheopath now and I just don't know what to decide.
I am on natural thyroid replacement, but the ob wants me on synthroid.
These levels would indicate my lethargy- but as Kim said- my adrenals need an overhaul, and I think the OSteo is more apt to fix that than the endo.

thanks for listening


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## WannabeaFarmer

This is just my opinion, but having an endo as a back up especially during pregnancy is a good idea. My thyroid was to blame for the loss of 6 pregnancies and I started to see an endo during my 7th and I believe that he was one of the reasons why I was able to deliver a healthy baby. This was jsut my expereince though. I have found that my body needs close monitoring. But if an osteo works and can get your levels down, then that is cool too...


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## amyjeans

I agree- this is my 7th preg, and I have 3 kids. I am sure my thyroid has something to do with it.


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## NocturnalDaze

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amyjeans* 
okay -my labs say my tsh levels are 36.44, should be 4.21. The ob office says- get to an endo, I am seeing an ostheopath now and I just don't know what to decide.
I am on natural thyroid replacement, but the ob wants me on synthroid.
These levels would indicate my lethargy- but as Kim said- my adrenals need an overhaul, and I think the OSteo is more apt to fix that than the endo.

thanks for listening

Are you taking Armour or just something over the counter? You TSH is way too high and you need to get that down ASAP. Definately look for someone who will prescribe something for you.

Are you saying your TSH should be under 4.21? Because it should really be under 2. 4 is at the high end of the range.

I lost 2 pregnancies last year while I was on Levoxyl (same thing as synthroid). My TSH was in range both times. I switched to Armour and added Hydrocortisone before I got pregnant and this pregnancy has gone beautifully (um, knock on wood)!!


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## KJoslyn78

i've been reading this thread awhile... just had my blood work (my Dr is an odiot - only did a TSH, wouldnt listen when i said i'm taking my medication (levothyroxine - genertic synthroid) but i've still got LOADS of symthoms. They said my levels was 2.1 (or something to 2.?) that i was fine and see ya in a year.

All that after a 1 1/2 wait to see the Dr, and a 45 minute drive (1 way) to her office! It's INSANE. I think i really need to switch to a different Dr


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## EMS

Quick question--when my dr. ordered the labwork for me, she asked for T3 total and T4 total. Is this right? Is that the same as free T3 and free T4? Those are the ones I want, right?
Thanks!


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## NocturnalDaze

No, they are not the same. Thyroid hormones bind with other hormones like estrogen and they can not be used by the body. The frees actually measure how much of the hormone is available in your system for you to use. Total T4 and T3 uptake test are essentially useless tests.

Free T3 & T4 are what you need. Most docs don't normally order them unless you make it clear that is what you want.


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## 3girlsmommy

Hi all! I'm now to this thread but I need some help. I have hypothyroidism. I was diagnosed almost 8 years ago, 5 years ago I had half of my thyroid removed .

I had my blood drawn last week and the nurse called today w/ my results. My TSH was 3.46 and my T4 was 1.0. She told me the results were w/in normal range. I'm having trouble finding the normal ranges for both TSH and T4(I think it may have be free T4). I have an appointment w/ my Dr. next week because we had discussed getting my TSH down to 2.0 because I am having a whole bunch of problems from fatigue to massive weight gain. I want to be able to take a couple of reliable source to my doctor next week when I see him. I am also going to request a referral for a endocrinologist. I want to feel normal. I want to have energy again. I want my skin to not be cracked anymore. I am frustrated, beyond frustrated. Help!


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## amyjeans

well, they said for me the tsh shouldn't be higher than 4.2.
I am taking a pill similar to Armour- its natural, but I think I may need to switch to Synthroid for the pregnancy.
Funny though- I am on 300 mg of natural, and they want me to start on 125 synthroid.
Weird to drop so low! don't you think??


----------



## NocturnalDaze

Sorry, I forgot "Natural" is the generic for Armour. I read it just as "a natural" so I was thinking it was from a health food store.

The natural and the Synthroid are totally different from each other in terms of mg. Here is a chart that shows their eqivalency. http://thyroid.about.com/library/dru...rsionchart.htm
Even so, it seems like you should be taking more like 250mcg.

Why can't they just raise your natural thyroid dose? Some people need to double their dose in pregnancy. Most people when they are not pregnant need between 3-5 grains of thyroid to be in right ranges. It doesn't seem like you were on a high enough dose to begin with. We're your ranges OK before you became pregnant?

It's just that Synthroid is only T4. The natural is T1, T2, T3, T4 and calcitonin. All things your body needs. A lot of people whom are hypo don't convert the T4 to T3 like we are supposed to therefore the Synthroid is actually a poorer choice.


----------



## amyjeans

I agree- but now I am caught between a nurse who knows nothing and is going by what her ob says- my tsh are high, stop taking natural- it doesn't work anyway- here lets start on 1.25. Sadly, they are clueless- I was on 400 mcg of Synthroid with my last pregnancy. this 1.25 won't ake a dent.
Tomorow I am going to see my DO who prescribed the natural stuff to figure out everything.
I will probably stick with the natural.


----------



## NocturnalDaze

Sounds like your DO has a better handle on things.

It is so ridiculous how little doctors know about this. It just makes me so mad!!







:


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## zane

help

Quote:

Why can't they just raise your natural thyroid dose? Some people need to double their dose in pregnancy. Most people when they are not pregnant need between 3-5 grains of thyroid to be in right ranges. It doesn't seem like you were on a high enough dose to begin with. We're your ranges OK before you became pregnant?
q1 - where does this 3-5 grain average come from? I see the stopthethryoidmadness people spouting that but don't know where the number came from

q2/vent - seven Drs in 5 years and I still can't get decent thryoid help. Last/current guy said all the right things in my first appt - TSH doesn't really matter its all about symptoms, Free Ts in the mid to high range, quoted Barnes foundation, holistic certification. I am pg so hoping for a bump (getting way more exhausted than I should, 'only' on 2 grains). Then he sees my results and freaks! Suppressed TSH (.01) and falling 'but normal' Free Ts. Guy says with that TSH there is no way I can have/need more I am fine test again in 6-8weeks. What is the point? My TSH is not going to jump up to 2-3 in that time and he only seems to care about that one number.

q3 - need help with TSH suppression links. Must have research to beat this latest Dr with. Isn't suppression with Armour 'normal'? What are the real risks of suppression?

vent - Same 'helpful' Dr told my mom, - previously dx with Hashimoto's, on armour, TSH of about 2, Free Ts in the low to mid range - looks like her labs are fine, just need a boost from 'thryoid support' supplements the health food store will know what she needs. Oh and she has early Grave's disease.







:







: she has long decided I am way too 'passionate' about thyroid and mostly ignores what I have to say. Eats up what the white coats tells her.

just short of ordering unregulated thryoid 'stuff' on the internet I am out of option. I can't stomach another Dr search. off to go lay on some train tracks.


----------



## amyjeans

zane.
never give up- never surrender


----------



## amyjeans

now i'm on 500 mcg natural, adrenal support and b12 drops.
cross your fingers.


----------



## NocturnalDaze

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zane* 
help
q1 - where does this 3-5 grain average come from? I see the stopthethryoidmadness people spouting that but don't know where the number came from

I think it has come from their experience in talking to a lot of people. I found it to be true for myself and I've also noticed that a lot of people who say they still don't feel better are still only on 1 or 2 grains.


----------



## NocturnalDaze

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amyjeans* 
now i'm on 500 mcg natural, adrenal support and b12 drops.
cross your fingers.

Yeah!! I hope you notice a difference soon!!


----------



## Subliime

I haven't read this whole thread yet, it's sooo long. I just wanted to share my story and ask for advice.

I was diagnosed hyper with active graves disease almost 2 yrs ago. The endo was flipping out b/c my bp was 186 over 0. I really didn't have any idea how sick I was until I started to feel better but now I feel worse than I ever did when I was hyper. I went through with the radioactive iodine treatment b/c I was told that was the best option b/c of how bad my condition was. I didn't feel comfortable with it and I still kind of regret it. I really feel worse. I am taking 150 mcg of synthroid and haven't had my levels checked in a while b/c I don't have the money. I really need to though. Is there anyone else on here who regrets getting the radioative iodine treatment? Also, is there anything natural I can do to feel better?


----------



## airmide_m

Yes Subliime there is something natural you can do to feel better! You can switch from synthroid to Armour, which is natural and does a MUCH better job than synthroid. You can go to www.stopthethyroidmadness.com and/or go to yahoogroups and look for the group natural thyroid hormones and there you can learn a LOT more.

Now, an update on what's going on with me - still searching for a good doctor but I think I've got one that will do for now! I went back to my old gynecologist (the one who did a laproscopic surgery and didn't do the thyroid and hormone tests first like I asked, but said he did and they turned out fine). I'm thinking maybe he was a little humbled since we caught him in that and also since it turns out I AM hypothyroid and imbalanced hormones just like I told him lol. Plus I just really liked him all along, I think he just dropped the ball on those tests but overall he's a pretty decent doctor and WAY better than any of the others I've been to. At least he really listens and is very caring and doesn't talk down at all or get upset when you ask a bazillion questions.

So, he shocked me completely by agreeing to do all the tests I asked for! He gave me a lab slip for Free T3, thyroid antibodies and B-12 (goofball didn't even order TSH or T4, which is fantastic as far as I'm concerned because then he won't have the opportunity to have a fit if he doesn't know about Armour suppressing TSH lol) I forgot to ask for ferritin, but I will next time. And since we've been having trouble conceiving he even volunteered to give my husband a lab test for a sperm count!

And he said the thing about progesterone is that once you're on it, you have to STAY on it if you get pregnant (I thought he was trying to say I had to go off it and I got all defensive at first lol, but turns out he did know what he was talking about and I agreed with him!) So that makes me think he'll be pretty likely to refill my progesterone cream which is the thing I needed most since I can get Thyroid-S without his help.

He said that saliva tests are sorta debatable, there was a big buzz about them a few years ago but traditional doctors didn't really stick with them. He acknowledged though that blood tests only take a snapshot and do not necessarily show the whole picture. I was talking about so many things that I forgot to get more detail on that. He did say since I'm already on progesterone it won't really help to get tested again since the results will be skewed. I need to do more research and find out if there's a way around that, since I'd really like to know if I need a larger or smaller dosage.

I told him I was on 5 grains of Armour and he said "oh, natural"...not like it was good or bad, just commenting. My husband headed him off by saying "Yes she tried synthetic and had a horrible reaction"..I went on and said "Yeah, being suicidal is no fun!....and neither is having your hair fall out in handfuls!"

So I don't know if he'd actually give a prescription for Armour or the correct lab tests to anyone else (could be worth a try I suppose) but I'm sure thrilled he's doing what I need him to for me right now!


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## Needle in the Hay

Another hypothryroid checking in!

I just had my first endo visit today. My OB/GYN tested for thyroid problems in search of the reasons behind our secondary infertility. Then she referred me to the endo. who did an u/s and found my thryoid is enlarged. He prescribed me euthyrox and I go back in approx. 2 months. I had no idea I had hypothyroidism before my OB/GYN tested for it, but I had suspected for awhile that I had some kind of hormonal imbalance. I just felt out of whack iykwim. And sometimes I wondered if I had sleep apnea or something to feel so tired even when getting a lot of sleep (though I also have the problem of waking up and unable to get back to sleep for hours).

Hopefully I'll start to have more energy soon but most of all, I hope that dealing with this problem will help us to have a second child.


----------



## amore74

for those out there with graves' or hashimotos... i just found this article. check it out.

http://thyroid.about.com/cs/latestresearch/a/celiac.htm

it explains that there might be a link between celiac disease and thyroid autoimmune disease. it also says that antobodies can disappear in 3-6 months on a gluten free diet.

does anyone know about this?


----------



## lastrid

I'm hoping somone can help me here. I just got my blood results back and this is what they were:

Thyroxine (T4) Free, Direct, S T4, Free (direct): 1.10
TSH: 0.813
T3: 139
Cortisol: 8.2

I'm not sure if I was tested for all the right things or not. I'm convinced I have a thyroid issue, but maybe it's just wishful thinking. Out of the 61 symptoms on the STTM list, I have all but 17, and two of those I didn't know, so I chose no. Do these look good? Am I missing something?


----------



## MamaMonica

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amore74* 
for those out there with graves' or hashimotos... i just found this article. check it out.

http://thyroid.about.com/cs/latestresearch/a/celiac.htm

it explains that there might be a link between celiac disease and thyroid autoimmune disease. it also says that antobodies can disappear in 3-6 months on a gluten free diet.

does anyone know about this?

I tried this (gluten-free) and still had antibodies in the hundreds (my ND retested them).


----------



## Spritesmom

Is anyone still reading this? I went hypo 5 years ago - OB-GYN just patted my knee and said that I was an older Mom (47) when I told her I was loosing my edge. My primary (boo!!) basically said the same thing for a year when I went in for my fatigue, again and again - my Zombie Year. I was falling asleep in the middle of sentences reading to my DD (then 2 - adopted)! My period just stopped. Finally made the primary do the test and have a sleep study done. Hey, what to you know?! TSH was 104!!! and I had severe sleep apnea. So ... got a CPAP machine so I could sleep and started Synthroid. Wait - it gets better. Dec of 07 I go HYPER - - If I hear" This never happens." one more time.... do the radioactive iodine therapy in April - Please kill it - I want off this ride!!! But they don't. See the endo in June - numbers are lower but still not in the "normal" range so she says to wait until OCTOBER for the numbers to come down. Now- come on!! April to OCTOBER?!!! End of July, I get the blood work for October appointment done because I feel really, really bad. Dry skin, extremely tired - I've been through this before so I know what's coming. (But, this NEVER happens!) My new primary calls to say - Get thee to thy endo, NOW!! I was only 102 this time!! Endo's front desk is a pit bull and is annoyed at my primary. Endo puts me back on same dose of Synthroid. Week and a half later - I'm driving to work and realize I don't know what day it is and feel like I really shouldn't be in control of a hunk of steel going 55 MPH - because I'm not functioning and I just don't care and I'm going to go to sleep right NOW!! My guardian angel was working overtime - I pull over and call the endo and tell them I can't function - they put me on Cytomel for two weeks to boost me up. NOW - 102?!! Shouldn't they of done that when they saw the 102? The lab redid the test because they thought it was an error!! How the heck can there even BE a 102? I received the "standard" treatment. Did anyone actually read my chart? My history? Feeling so much better now. Thanks!!


----------



## IvyAfire

What's sad is how many moms become hypothyroid after difficult births and heavy blood loss. Or how many have become hypo after a bout of mono, or a whiplash injury. It's well documented but so many women have no idea there is a connection.







:


----------



## Spritesmom

Sorry about the - Is anyone still reading this? I'm new and the post I first found was from 2006.


----------



## KJoslyn78

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Spritesmom* 
Is anyone still reading this? I went hypo 5 years ago - OB-GYN just patted my knee and said that I was an older Mom (47) when I told her I was loosing my edge. My primary (boo!!) basically said the same thing for a year when I went in for my fatigue, again and again - my Zombie Year. I was falling asleep in the middle of sentences reading to my DD (then 2 - adopted)! My period just stopped. Finally made the primary do the test and have a sleep study done. Hey, what to you know?! TSH was 104!!! and I had severe sleep apnea. So ... got a CPAP machine so I could sleep and started Synthroid. Wait - it gets better. Dec of 07 I go HYPER - - If I hear" This never happens." one more time.... do the radioactive iodine therapy in April - Please kill it - I want off this ride!!! But they don't. See the endo in June - numbers are lower but still not in the "normal" range so she says to wait until OCTOBER for the numbers to come down. Now- come on!! April to OCTOBER?!!! End of July, I get the blood work for October appointment done because I feel really, really bad. Dry skin, extremely tired - I've been through this before so I know what's coming. (But, this NEVER happens!) My new primary calls to say - Get thee to thy endo, NOW!! I was only 102 this time!! Endo's front desk is a pit bull and is annoyed at my primary. Endo puts me back on same dose of Synthroid. Week and a half later - I'm driving to work and realize I don't know what day it is and feel like I really shouldn't be in control of a hunk of steel going 55 MPH - because I'm not functioning and I just don't care and I'm going to go to sleep right NOW!! My guardian angel was working overtime - I pull over and call the endo and tell them I can't function - they put me on Cytomel for two weeks to boost me up. NOW - 102?!! Shouldn't they of done that when they saw the 102? The lab redid the test because they thought it was an error!! How the heck can there even BE a 102? I received the "standard" treatment. Did anyone actually read my chart? My history? Feeling so much better now. Thanks!!

WOW







and i thought my Dr was terrible







: that's just insane for them to put you through all that - i'd find some new Drs - FAST!!!


----------



## tanyalynn

Spritesmom--for specific help, starting a new thread is best because this one has gotten so big--sometimes it's very active, sometimes not. But, that said, I took an alternative route (self-treatment and holistic HCP), and am very happy with my results (and I don't have to take pills every day). But I probably wasn't as symptomatic as you, so a combined approach may work better. Whether you find a traditional or a holistic HCP (or both), you deserve WAY better help than you're getting now. This bunch deserves to be fired. Finding Your Tribe can help with better doctors, also if you go the conventional medicine approach, there's a list of Top Thyroid Docs (link below) and you can check to see whether anyone is in your area.

http://thyroid.about.com/cs/doctors/a/topdocs.htm

It sounds like you're just suffering from basic bad help with your health (not dismissing your symptoms, they sound horrid--but it seems obvious that something is wrong, and that is the part that's so puzzling, that professionals can't see it). Wow, I didn't know it could be _that_ bad.


----------



## Spritesmom

Oh, Mamas!!! You can't know what you mean to me right now!! IT WASN'T ME!!!! I'M NOT CRAZY!! You actually listened!!! The anger - that was (is?!) THIS?!! I could only read a few posts - I do sleep once in a while, but what a relief!! I almost woke my DH up to let him read them, too. THANK YOU!!! THANK YOU!!! Ok - I'm crying - tears of relief!! I can be ME, again!! OK - to work - what is HCP? I just want my energy back - I was a really good "A" personality before all this. I''ll settle for a "B". Oh- and some more of my memory function would be nice. Has anyone out there been through this TWICE? Question - Why don't the drs. try to find out WHY? No thyroid function for 4 years and then it "wakes up" and goes super hyper - and no one is curious as to WHY? Also: My thyroid swelled up to the point it started to affect my vocal cords and my voice got raspy. Drs. say it was trying to make enough hormone. This is after the RIT. Sometimes my voice still gets raspy - do I have a cold (no other "cold" signs) or is this residual? Again, thank you sooo much!


----------



## DQMama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *airmide_m* 
I told him I was on 5 grains of Armour and he said "oh, natural"...not like it was good or bad, just commenting. My husband headed him off by saying "Yes she tried synthetic and had a horrible reaction"..I went on and said "Yeah, being suicidal is no fun!....and neither is having your hair fall out in handfuls!"

So I don't know if he'd actually give a prescription for Armour or the correct lab tests to anyone else (could be worth a try I suppose) but I'm sure thrilled he's doing what I need him to for me right now!


You know, I always thought my Levoxyl was fine (I have no thyroid--removed 11 yrs ago due to cancer) but I do have a lot of anxiety, and my hair falls out. My lab values are within "normal" range. I thought the hair falling out was due to being postpartum but after ds it stopped by 6 months. Dd is 21 months old and it's still falling out! I'm going to ask about Armour.


----------



## zonapellucida

AAARRG lost my post!!!!


----------



## zonapellucida

I am just confused. Multinodular goitur and my levels are cofusing even the doctors. some are normal some high. The don't know. Is it the ulceraticve colitus that is making me lose weight ? Is it the kids that are making me lose my mind? Is it he diagnosed depression that is casuing the anger issues?
All I knoe is that they will NOT destory my thyroid to put me on meds when it is still making hormone.

Thus I will ocntinue to go through this thread to find natural links to try to fix it.


----------



## IvyAfire

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Spritesmom* 
Oh, Mamas!!! You can't know what you mean to me right now!! IT WASN'T ME!!!! I'M NOT CRAZY!!

Go to STTM and read. We aren't crazy, but the doctors like to tell us we are because otherwise they would have to do their jobs. They would also make less money by treating us properly.


----------



## tanyalynn

HCP is just health care provider. For various things, I've seen chiropractors and an acupuncturist. But people in lots of other specialties seem like they can do similar things. It seems like the approach depends more on the individual HCP than their actual specialty--I mean, beyond the obvious things that a chiro and an acupuncturist would do. Finding a good one is really based on good personal fit and an approach that fits with you.


----------



## lastrid

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Spritesmom* 
No thyroid function for 4 years and then it "wakes up" and goes super hyper - and no one is curious as to WHY?

You probably weren't really hyper. Stop the Thyroid Madness talks about this.


----------



## NocturnalDaze

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lastrid* 
You probably weren't really hyper. Stop the Thyroid Madness talks about this.











It's sounds like you may have Hashi's for it to switch back and forth between hypo and hyper like that. Have you had your antibodies checked?

The exhaustion is probably from low cortisol (because your body has been stressed because your hypothyroidism hasn't been treated properly for years). Have you done saliva testing for cortisol at all?

The Stop the Thyroid Madness forums have been shut down. The new forums are located at:

http://www.realthyroidhelp.com/


----------



## IvyAfire

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NocturnalDaze;9299028?

The Stop the Thyroid Madness forums have been shut down. The new forums are located at:

[url*
http://www.realthyroidhelp.com/[/url]

The forums are no longer taking comments, but there is still valuable information on the site.


----------



## NocturnalDaze

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lastrid* 
I'm hoping somone can help me here. I just got my blood results back and this is what they were:

Thyroxine (T4) Free, Direct, S T4, Free (direct): 1.10
TSH: 0.813
T3: 139
Cortisol: 8.2

I'm not sure if I was tested for all the right things or not. I'm convinced I have a thyroid issue, but maybe it's just wishful thinking. Out of the 61 symptoms on the STTM list, I have all but 17, and two of those I didn't know, so I chose no. Do these look good? Am I missing something?

Are the T3 & T4's both free? What are the lab ranges?

The cortisol test doesn't really say much. It was just a blood test right? The saliva test is much better. It checks your cortisol 4x over the course of a day and will give you a clearer picture.


----------



## 3girlsmommy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NocturnalDaze* 
Are the T3 & T4's both free? What are the lab ranges?

The cortisol test doesn't really say much. It was just a blood test right? The saliva test is much better. It checks your cortisol 4x over the course of a day and will give you a clearer picture.

Who do you get to check that? Is it a at home kind of thing or do you do it at your dr.'s office?


----------



## lastrid

The ranges are, respectively:
T4: 1.10 .61-1.76
TSH: .813 .350-5.500
T3: 139 85-205
cortisol: 8.2 3.1-22.4


----------



## MujerMamaMismo

Hi Mama's
I too was recently diagnosed with hyopthyroidism after asking for some basic bloodwork pre TTC.
At the moment, my levels aren't too bad -
T4 = 14.1
T3 = 5.3
TSH = 4.28

This is a significant improvement on the initial test results and I am generally not particularly suffering - just a bit tired.

The Dr (who practises holistic, nutritional medicine and is loathe to prescribe drugs) also says I have an auto immune disease which from what I can gather is Hashimotos. I gather this from my reading and based on these levels:
Anti-thyroid Peroxidase = >1000 kIU/L
Anti-thyroid thyroglobulin = 55 kIU/L

Can anyone confirm or deny that this is Hashimotos? I just couldn't get a straight answer from him on this one.

He is keen to treat this with selenium, tyrosine and iodine and a pretty radical looking diet which I don't feel at all positive about.

My biggest concern with this is the impact on TTC.

Any thoughts, ideas, advice, input?


----------



## MujerMamaMismo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 
Hi Mama's
I too was recently diagnosed with hyopthyroidism after asking for some basic bloodwork pre TTC.
At the moment, my levels aren't too bad -
T4 = 14.1
T3 = 5.3
TSH = 4.28

This is a significant improvement on the initial test results and I am generally not particularly suffering - just a bit tired.

The Dr (who practises holistic, nutritional medicine and is loathe to prescribe drugs) also says I have an auto immune disease which from what I can gather is Hashimotos. I gather this from my reading and based on these levels:
Anti-thyroid Peroxidase = >1000 kIU/L
Anti-thyroid thyroglobulin = 55 kIU/L

Can anyone confirm or deny that this is Hashimotos? I just couldn't get a straight answer from him on this one.

He is keen to treat this with selenium, tyrosine and iodine and a pretty radical looking diet which I don't feel at all positive about.

My biggest concern with this is the impact on TTC.

Any thoughts, ideas, advice, input?

I've now had this confirmed as hashimotos and am stressing out about my chances of conceiving and maintaining pregnancy.

Did any of you who chose to go down the holistic healthcare path successfully conceive? How long did it take?

I read that TSH should be between 1 and 2 for conception and currently mine is at 4.28. I never thought I would run screaming toward western medicine but if that's what it takes, I'm prepared to do it to stabilise the condition and then move across to whole health. I'm very eager to get pregnant ASAP.

Anyone?


----------



## meggles

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 
I've now had this confirmed as hashimotos and am stressing out about my chances of conceiving and maintaining pregnancy.

Did any of you who chose to go down the holistic healthcare path successfully conceive? How long did it take?

I read that TSH should be between 1 and 2 for conception and currently mine is at 4.28. I never thought I would run screaming toward western medicine but if that's what it takes, I'm prepared to do it to stabilise the condition and then move across to whole health. I'm very eager to get pregnant ASAP.

Anyone?

I have mild/borderline hypo and we ttc for a year and nothing. My tsh was only 3, but I felt like it was too high, as I was having symptoms of hypo and thyroid issues run in my family. I saw a naturopath because my OB refused to talk about my thyroid because my blood tests came back "within normal range." My naturopath said we could try a small dose of Armour thyroid and see if my symptoms improved. She agreed that tsh should be between 1 and 2 to optimize conceiving. I started taking the Armour, my symptoms improved within a few days, my tsh went down to 1.3 and I was pregnant 6 weeks later. There's no harm in taking a little medication and seeing if things improved, so long as you're being monitored by some sort of medical professional. I'm sure if it weren't for my naturopath we'd still be ttc, because my OB would not listen to me and would not prescribe any thyroid medication. You have to trust your instincts!
(feel free to pm me if you want--I'm not on this forum a whole lot)


----------



## neveryoumindthere

So, naturopaths generally can 'prescribe' armour or other natural thyroid meds?
If so I'm getting myself to one asap
I'm feeling pretty hypo ..it's almost 2 years postpartum and the PP thyroiditis lasted till 18months with it swinging back and forth from hypo to hyper but I'm **** not myself

Has anyone with thyroid problems noticed that their *personality* changed?? I once was a very confident extrovert, could jump in any conversation, loved to laugh/have fun, now all that stuff is an effort and I can't be bothered to join 'deep' discussions because I just cant focus or formulate intelligent sentences...I find myself more shy and cautious and extremely sensitive...ya i know we have our hormones to deal with but it was never to this extent that I'm like this all the time...anyone?


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *neveryoumindthere* 

Has anyone with thyroid problems noticed that their *personality* changed?? I once was a very confident extrovert, could jump in any conversation, loved to laugh/have fun, now all that stuff is an effort and I can't be bothered to join 'deep' discussions because I just cant focus or formulate intelligent sentences...I find myself more shy and cautious and extremely sensitive...ya i know we have our hormones to deal with but it was never to this extent that I'm like this all the time...anyone?

absolutely. hypo makes you irritable and moody, and thyroid brain fog is a documented symptom that drives most of us nuts. The depression brought on by hypo can drive a person to suicide, especially coupled with the unsympathetic medical 'treatment' you usually get from docs who don't test or prescribe properly.

Hypo is commonly misdiagnosed as bipolar disorder, so what does that tell you?


----------



## eldadeedlit

Hi all

I have no diagnosis but I suspect I may have hypothyroidism... Over the last couple years, I have started experiencing many of the symptoms I see listed on the web one by one (not that I have been monitoring this really, I just am seeing it all come together, does that make sense?) I just started losing hair like, in clumps and I am getting bald spots.







I'm 25 years old.... I have also been depressed, irritable, forgetful... my whole body aches and my sex drive has been reduced to absolutely ZILCH. I also cannot loose weight, which is odd for me as I was always thin.

I know a lot of this could be attributed to just having kids and stuff, right? But I just feel like something is off and this makes sense.

Can somebody give me an idea about what to expect if I pursue this with my PCP? Is it weird to ask her to test me for hypothyroidism? And how accurate is the test?

Thanks!!
Veronica


----------



## neveryoumindthere

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
absolutely. hypo makes you irritable and moody, and thyroid brain fog is a documented symptom that drives most of us nuts. The depression brought on by hypo can drive a person to suicide, especially coupled with the unsympathetic medical 'treatment' you usually get from docs who don't test or prescribe properly.

Hypo is commonly misdiagnosed as bipolar disorder, so what does that tell you?

you totally described me a few months back...
I was looking into bipolar after I had my 2nd dd because I couldn't believe the major swings were normal and fine like all 5 doctors said

oh and Thanks for the PM


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eldadeedlit* 
Hi all

I have no diagnosis but I suspect I may have hypothyroidism... Over the last couple years, I have started experiencing many of the symptoms I see listed on the web one by one (not that I have been monitoring this really, I just am seeing it all come together, does that make sense?) I just started losing hair like, in clumps and I am getting bald spots.







I'm 25 years old.... I have also been depressed, irritable, forgetful... my whole body aches and my sex drive has been reduced to absolutely ZILCH. I also cannot loose weight, which is odd for me as I was always thin.

I know a lot of this could be attributed to just having kids and stuff, right? But I just feel like something is off and this makes sense.

Can somebody give me an idea about what to expect if I pursue this with my PCP? Is it weird to ask her to test me for hypothyroidism? And how accurate is the test?

Thanks!!
Veronica

Many women become hypo after childbirth, sometimes it's triggered by excessive blood loss which can happen in childbirth or surgery. IT isn't weird to ask, but often they will tell you that you're normal. The big problem is that they have no way of knowing what is 'normal' for you because they don't even start testing until you feel lousy. Go to STTM and read up. The TSH test is faulty and if that is the only thing they use to diagnose you, odds are they will continue to let you feel like crap. Google thyroid top docs and search for a doctor in your area, and if you're lucky you may even find one who takes your insurance. A garden variety endo is not likely to treat you by symptoms, so don't even waste your time.

I was thin for my entire life until I had ds at 35, then I started losing hair, gaining weight, and being to exhausted to move. My memory went completely away and I was incapable of learning. Docs kept telling me I was 'fine,' but I knew I wasn't. I even had one tell me that I was 'a middle aged woman, and supposed to gain weight.' Yeah, at the rate of 10 to 15 lbs a month with a decreased appetite?

If you have had mono, or if you have lived in certain parts of the country even, you are more likely to become hypo. It's astonishing the things that could cause it, really.

Find a good doctor, and don't waste time on the bad ones. And read, read, read.


----------



## eldadeedlit

OK, so the blood test that the dr. would give me is not necessarily accurate? Ugh I hate stuff like that. :/ I mean, I accept that there could be something else going on with me, but judging by my symptoms this sounds right, you know?

I haven't really *gained* weight, but I gained a lot w/ my last baby and haven't been able to lose all of it... It has been unusually difficult. And the hair thing is weird. Could this affect my menstrual cycle as well? That is another mystery. I gave birth 13 months ago and w/ my other two children, I got AF back at about 4 months PP. I still haven't gotten it back this time. It is odd.

I did bleed a lot w/ my daughter and had to have pitocin via IV after her birth as I was absolutely spurting blood. :/ (it was a really rough labor, natural no induction/pain meds, but absolute torture. I feel like my body is still all screwed up by it.)

Can somebody recommend a book or something? I am thinking I'll go to my PCP and get the blood test, see where that takes me... if it is "normal" I'll see if I can get to a specialist. I found one in my area (thanks bigeyes for the searching tip) but I don't know if they take my insurance. We'll see.

Thanks


----------



## bigeyes

http://www.amazon.com/Thyroid-Power-...1523391&sr=8-4

http://www.amazon.com/Living-Well-Hy...740957/ref=pd_

http://www.amazon.com/Feeling-Fat-Fu...1523391&sr=8-5

http://www.amazon.com/What-Your-Doct...1523391&sr=8-6

Don't waste your time on the 'for dummies' book, it's mainstream TSH based and won't help you. I actually went to Dr. Shames when I lived in CA, and he is hands down the best thyroid doc I ever had. Expensive as all get-out and of course did not take my insurance, but sadly that is what you usually find when you don't blindly accept what mainstream medicine is shoving down your throat.







People are literally driven to suicide from hypothyroid depression, so imo it is worth every penny to find the proper treatment, even if that means you have to go outside your insurance plan, ykwim? You know your own body, and if the doc tells you you're fine, yet you still feel lousy, the information in these books just might be the answer.

hth


----------



## Shahbazin

OK, I'm trying to figure out if this is a cause for concern, or what? I just had some routine bloodwork run, & free T4 & TSH were 2 of the things checked; free T4 seems all right (0.76, with the normal range being 0.70-1.48 ng/dL), but TSH is real low (0.03, with normal range of 0.4-4.00 uIU/mL). I do have a goiter, & have been borderline high thyroid for years, but never had any symptoms. What could this low TSH signify, & what might I do about it? FWIW, I'm 10 weeks PP, lactating, & still losing preg. weight.


----------



## 3girlsmommy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shahbazin* 
OK, I'm trying to figure out if this is a cause for concern, or what? I just had some routine bloodwork run, & free T4 & TSH were 2 of the things checked; free T4 seems all right (0.76, with the normal range being 0.70-1.48 ng/dL), but TSH is real low (0.03, with normal range of 0.4-4.00 uIU/mL). I do have a goiter, & have been borderline high thyroid for years, but never had any symptoms. What could this low TSH signify, & what might I do about it? FWIW, I'm 10 weeks PP, lactating, & still losing preg. weight.

From the things I have been reading lately .3 to 3.0 is the "new"(adopted by Assc. of Endocrinologists in 2003), so in reality you are w/in limits.


----------



## Shahbazin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *3girlsmommy* 
From the things I have been reading lately .3 to 3.0 is the "new"(adopted by Assc. of Endocrinologists in 2003), so in reality you are w/in limits.

Thanks- but unless it's a typo on my report, I'm at three hundredths, not three tenths ...


----------



## 3girlsmommy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shahbazin* 
Thanks- but unless it's a typo on my report, I'm at three hundredths, not three tenths ...

Opps! Sorry I didn't see the zero in there. Are they doing anything for the hyperthyroid?


----------



## KJoslyn78

nm - found it (i really need to learn to spell)


----------



## Shahbazin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *3girlsmommy* 
Opps! Sorry I didn't see the zero in there. Are they doing anything for the hyperthyroid?


Well, they offered to nuke it - the radiation thing - & put me on replacement thyroid, but besides not having medical insurance at that time (15 or 20 years ago), it seemed a rather drastic "solution", particularly as I've never had any hyperthyroid symptoms; once I did have insurance, I just left it alone. Other than prenatal care, this is the 1st time I've ever seen a Dr. for a checkup since childhood, & I'm 40 now; I feel quite healthy, other than being a bit overweight (OK, I've still got 25 baby pounds to lose - but I've lost 30 so far).
So, just how out of norm is this test result? Is the fact that my free T4 is OK a mitigating factor? Could the recent pregnancies have knocked me a bit out of kilter (& it'll likely stabilize on its own?)?


----------



## amyjeans

Where did it all begin? Why is there such a rise in thyroid conditions? My 3 yr old was born with congenital hypothyroidism and I am just amazed at the commonality of the disease!

Look how many of us are subscribed to this thread? How many more here on MDC have a disorder and don't know it?

Anyone else baffled by this phenomenon?

Part of me thinks its the environment, the exposure to toxins on a daily basis eventually wears out bodies down, and when that happens, problems arise.
Or Big Pharma creating this problem to continue their reign on us medically.
(sorry- just me and my conspiracy theories!)

It just blows my mind.

okay- rant over.







:


----------



## amyjeans

on another note- I am feeling better! My DO has me taking 500 mcg of natural dessicated thyroid, AND adrenal booster, AND a 20,000mg (-not a typo btw)dose 2x a day of liquid B-12.
I can actually get dressed nowadays!


----------



## NocturnalDaze

I'm glad your starting to feel better!!

I have the same theories....I think our hormones are all messed up because the quality of food we eat is so poor. Our fruits & veggies have less vitamins and minerals in them than they did even 50 years ago. Our bodies need those vit & min to run right. We used to get vit & min from the animals as well but now they are being fed grains that are void of nutrition instead of feeding on grasses.

I also think vaccines, toxic chemicals (pestisides, household cleaners, etc...) and flouride in our water have contributed to destroying our immune systems.

I see people everywhere that have symptoms of thyroid problems....depression, thinning hair in women, missing hair in the corners of the eyebrows, weight gain (hard to lose pounds) etc.... It's just everywhere and it's really horrifying!!


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amyjeans* 
Where did it all begin? Why is there such a rise in thyroid conditions? My 3 yr old was born with congenital hypothyroidism and I am just amazed at the commonality of the disease!

Look how many of us are subscribed to this thread? How many more here on MDC have a disorder and don't know it?

Anyone else baffled by this phenomenon?

Part of me thinks its the environment, the exposure to toxins on a daily basis eventually wears out bodies down, and when that happens, problems arise.
Or Big Pharma creating this problem to continue their reign on us medically.
(sorry- just me and my conspiracy theories!)

It just blows my mind.

okay- rant over.







:

See, I'm _not_ baffled. It is our environment, big business, big pharma and the bought and paid for whore that is the FDA. There are books and articles that document just how this stuff works, and it's criminal.

We have been exposed to soy, plastic, mercury, chlorine, and flouride, which are all endocrine disruptors. Your thyroid is an endocrine gland. The FDA has allowed food to be packaged and cooked in plastic which is going into our bodies and messing up our endocrine system. The FDA allowed the soy producers to systematically replace more expensive fats, proteins and grains with soy in virtually every packaged food on the grocery store shelves, thereby poisoning busy families throughout our entire country in one fell swoop. Flouride was added to our water supplies, toothpastes, mouthwashes and treatments received in the dentist's office, and it has now been proven that too much flouride can damage your teeth. Since it's added to the water supply and every person consumes a different amount, there is no way to control the dosage.

Every time someone says something is _OK in moderation_ I have to ask _how can I moderate something I have no way of measuring?_ Then we have poisonous junk being dumped on our food crops, GMOs, and _organic food that is allowed to be 5% 'other.'_

Big Pharma has the FDA in its pocket, as do the people who make artificial sweeteners, which were also approved in a _very shady manner._ We have been pumped full of crap that people blindly accept as safe because of a corrupt government agency we _think_ protects us.

A few books on the subject:
The Whole Soy Story
Sweet Deception
Innocent Casualties:The FDA's War Against Humanity
Inside the FDA:The Business and Politics Behind the Drugs We Take and the Food we Eat
Trust Us We're Experts:How Industry Manipulates Science and Gambles With Your Future
Toxic Sludge Is Good For You
A Consumer's Dictionary of Food Additives
The Crazy Makers:How the Food Industry is Destroying Our Brains and Harming Our Children
Excitoxins:the Taste That Kills
Fight For Your Health:Exposing the FDA's Betrayal of America

Articles? _Don't get me started.
_

I was sick for years before I could find a doctor who would say _yes, it's your thyroid._ Every time I move, I begin another quest for a doctor who has a clue. Sometimes I feel like I will never be _me_ again, and every time I see a commercial for the latest designer drug, or hear someone say how _healthy_ soy is, or read yet another label at the grocery store to find that another of my favorite foods has been ruined, or worst of all-hear someone say _well, the FDA wouldn't approve it if it wasn't safe,_ I want to scream.

We are living in a toxic world, and _our government is allowing big business to poison us on a daily basis._ Millions of people are sick and _dying sooner_ because of this, but we're all so busy with other things we aren't holding our government accountable for what they are doing.

Instead of sending stuff back to China and boycotting stores, we should be asking our government _why_ these things are even allowed to be sold to unsuspecting consumers in our country. We should be asking _why_ an agency exists to protect us when it really just whores itself out to big business. We should also be looking at politicians who have interests in big pharma, plastics, soy, and any business that manufactures or disposes of chemical products.

_Baffled? Not in the slightest. *I'm profoundly pissed off.

My ranting has not even begun.
*_


----------



## EMS

I would really appreciate it...
This is what they are:
T4 Free, direct .98 (.61-1.76)
T4 4.7 (4.5-12.0)
T3 80 (85-205)
ferritin 20 (10-291)
T3 Free, Serum 2.3 (2.3-4.2)
So what now? It seems like the numbers are on the low side. (They forgot to do the TSH, but a few months ago it was 1.67.)
I have moderate, vague symptoms, nothing terrible, and low temps.
I'm taking a multivitamin (NOW prenatals), high vit. clo, fish oil, acerola.
Any suggestions??
Thanks so much.


----------



## NocturnalDaze

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EMS* 
I would really appreciate it...
This is what they are:
T4 Free, direct .98 (.61-1.76)
T4 4.7 (4.5-12.0)
T3 80 (85-205)
ferritin 20 (10-291)
T3 Free, Serum 2.3 (2.3-4.2)
So what now? It seems like the numbers are on the low side. (They forgot to do the TSH, but a few months ago it was 1.67.)
I have moderate, vague symptoms, nothing terrible, and low temps.
I'm taking a multivitamin (NOW prenatals), high vit. clo, fish oil, acerola.
Any suggestions??
Thanks so much.


Tsh really isn't that important so it's not a big deal that you didn't have it done.

Of the important ones that you had done:

free T4 should be in upper 1/2 of range or above so that is low...

free T3 should be in upper 1/3 of range or just over top of range so yours is very low.....

From what I understand ferritin should be between 70-90....
I don't know a lot about ferritin. If you go here http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewforum.php?f=4
you may be ableto get any questions answered as far as what to take to get it up higher.


----------



## IvyAfire

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
_Baffled? Not in the slightest. *I'm profoundly pissed off.

My ranting has not even begun.
*_


I agree. Don't forget nuclear testing and vaccinations.


----------



## transformed

I just had my thyroid tested and I'll get the results soon. I hope its a thyroid problem and not bi-polar. Yuck.


----------



## bigeyes

Just remember to read everything you can get your hands on, and don't accept a TSH test as concrete proof that your thyroid is OK. It is so often misdiagnosed as bipolar disorder _because_ of things like that crappy TSH test.
The drugs they give you for bipolar disorder can jack up your system even worse, so be absolutely certain before you let them dose you.


----------



## transformed

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
Just remember to read everything you can get your hands on, and don't accept a TSH test as concrete proof that your thyroid is OK. It is so often misdiagnosed as bipolar disorder _because_ of things like that crappy TSH test.
The drugs they give you for bipolar disorder can jack up your system even worse, so be absolutely certain before you let them dose you.

I have to be honest with you, although I do enjoy being responsible for my health and education, this type of research and reading makes my head spin and I find it mind numbing. (And vax research too)

I am not sure how to get through it....its kinda over my head, kwim?

They should really make movies about it....like documentarys....I retain so much more info that way.


----------



## bigeyes

I wish they would.

That is why I belong to groups and visit STTM and thyroid about.com a lot.
I ask the same questions over again because of the brain fog that makes me forget. I keep notes and buy books.

Mainstream medicine and the pharmaceuticals industry have a lot invested in keeping us sick and compliant. We can't afford to just roll over, so even though I forget more than I remember, I keep at it and keep sending people to the websites.

Too many women are out there feeling awful and being told _it's all in their heads._


----------



## transformed

OMG! That is so amazing you mentioned that! (brain fog)

I wonder if the thyroid communitys are more forgiving of ppl who ask stuff over and over and over?









I will be that person! (And mabye within the same week, unless I get some way of organizing information system....not likley right now. )

Has anyone ever thought it was a candida yeast problem? My main "self diagnoses" are bi-polar (and a host of other mental illnesses....adhd, depression, etc....and candida yeast, and thyropid, and adrenal.)


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
OMG! That is so amazing you mentioned that! (brain fog)

I wonder if the thyroid communitys are more forgiving of ppl who ask stuff over and over and over?









I will be that person! (And mabye within the same week, unless I get some way of organizing information system....not likley right now. )

Has anyone ever thought it was a candida yeast problem? My main "self diagnoses" are bi-polar (and a host of other mental illnesses....adhd, depression, etc....and candida yeast, and thyropid, and adrenal.)

some of the people in the groups talk about things like yeast and mercury a lot. Depression, fatigue and brain fog are the top 3 symptoms of thyroid disorders for many people. So many women start having problems right after having kids and they just get written off as lazy, or 'hormonal.' Thyroid _is_ hormonal, but so often the whole thing is lumped into the category that so many female complaints are, as in _it's hormonal so you'll just have to deal with it._ That's so wrong! There are natural treatments for hormonal problems and you don't have to _just deal with it._


----------



## Celtain

I just went to an endocrinologist for the first time in a year and a half (Last one was a total quack, I live in central Florida if anyone wants to know who to avoid, PM me)

Just got my blood work back today. My TSH was "unreadable" it is over 150.

I start back on my meds tommorrow. I hope I feel better soon, the confusion and the fatigue is really starting to get to me.


----------



## KimPM

I guess I qualify for this group... I don't have a thyroid anymore. It's a long story, but can be told quickly. Age 16, mom noticed the lump on my throat. Dr diagnosed as benign goiter. Took synthroid since then to "shut off" thyroid and replace the hormone. Goiter stayed exactly the same size for many years. Then at age 35 - it seemed out of nowhere - the goiter started growing rapidly. They recommended surgery to remove vs. biopsy where possible cancer could be missed. I got the thyroid out; they froze, sliced, and examined it all, it was totally benign. So, I was left to wonder what could have caused the goiter to suddenly grow like that. Then I recall about 1-2 years before the big goiter growth spurt, I started to eat a LOT of soy (husband's a vegetarian). Did some research and discovered that soy is quite goiterogenic (it should carry warning labels!!) and it's not all that great for you anyway. Discovered it also can induce hypothyroid condition and symptoms, even in those w/o preexisting thyroid issues. Now, even tho I have no thyroid, I avoid soy like the plague (most processed food is out). Hubby also has stopped eating soy. I pass along the word whenever I can.


----------



## 3girlsmommy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KimPM* 
Then I recall about 1-2 years before the big goiter growth spurt, I started to eat a LOT of soy (husband's a vegetarian). Did some research and discovered that soy is quite goiterogenic (it should carry warning labels!!) and it's not all that great for you anyway. Discovered it also can induce hypothyroid condition and symptoms, even in those w/o preexisting thyroid issues. Now, even tho I have no thyroid, I avoid soy like the plague (most processed food is out). Hubby also has stopped eating soy. I pass along the word whenever I can.

I am missing half and I am pretty sure my problems intensified and my nodule that was growing in my thyroid was related to my increase in tofu and soy based products like garden burgers. We had started eating tofu once or twice a week and w/in 3 months I was having all sorts of problems swallowing and an ultrasound showed a nodule and the needle biopsy showed abnormal cells(they thought it was cancer) when it was removed it came back benign. After I started to research more and found the connection and I now avoid those things. Scary stuff.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KimPM* 
I guess I qualify for this group... I don't have a thyroid anymore. It's a long story, but can be told quickly. Age 16, mom noticed the lump on my throat. Dr diagnosed as benign goiter. Took synthroid since then to "shut off" thyroid and replace the hormone. Goiter stayed exactly the same size for many years. Then at age 35 - it seemed out of nowhere - the goiter started growing rapidly. They recommended surgery to remove vs. biopsy where possible cancer could be missed. I got the thyroid out; they froze, sliced, and examined it all, it was totally benign. So, I was left to wonder what could have caused the goiter to suddenly grow like that. Then I recall about 1-2 years before the big goiter growth spurt, I started to eat a LOT of soy (husband's a vegetarian). Did some research and discovered that soy is quite goiterogenic (it should carry warning labels!!) and it's not all that great for you anyway. Discovered it also can induce hypothyroid condition and symptoms, even in those w/o preexisting thyroid issues. Now, even tho I have no thyroid, I avoid soy like the plague (most processed food is out). Hubby also has stopped eating soy. I pass along the word whenever I can.

You know what's funny about that? Most patients who use natural thyroid hormones like to use enough to suppress TSH and totally replace their thyroid hormone rather than rely on their body's own faulty system to kick in. Most synthroid pushers discourage that, so it's interesting to me that they used synthroid to shut yours down. None of them seem to agree on anything.







:


----------



## transformed

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
some of the people in the groups talk about things like yeast and mercury a lot. Depression, fatigue and brain fog are the top 3 symptoms of thyroid disorders for many people. So many women start having problems right after having kids and they just get written off as lazy, or 'hormonal.' Thyroid _is_ hormonal, but so often the whole thing is lumped into the category that so many female complaints are, as in _it's hormonal so you'll just have to deal with it._ That's so wrong! There are natural treatments for hormonal problems and you don't have to _just deal with it._

Are thyroid problems genetic? My mom, and grandmother are "depressed, hormonal, crazy, fatigued, etc."

This is the first time I have actually considered alot of "medical" treatment for anything because I am the "diet and excercise can cure anything" camp. (And some alternatives but I usually regard the medical community as somewhat evil.







)

So what do you all use to "fix?" the thyroid issues you have? (Or mabye manage? Can you fix the thyroid?)

Perscriptions?
Natural remedies?
other?

???


----------



## Celtain

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
Are thyroid problems genetic? My mom, and grandmother are "depressed, hormonal, crazy, fatigued, etc."



The thyroid disorder I have is genetic. Great Grandma, grandma and I all have the same thing.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
Are thyroid problems genetic? My mom, and grandmother are "depressed, hormonal, crazy, fatigued, etc."

This is the first time I have actually considered alot of "medical" treatment for anything because I am the "diet and excercise can cure anything" camp. (And some alternatives but I usually regard the medical community as somewhat evil.







)

So what do you all use to "fix?" the thyroid issues you have? (Or mabye manage? Can you fix the thyroid?)

Perscriptions?
Natural remedies?
other?

???

THey can be. my grandmother, aunt and mother had them I'm fairly certain, though just my aunt and mom were diagnosed besides me. Women are more at risk because of the possibility of sheehans syndrome from excessive bleeding during childbirth, and various other reasons, too.
ANd the medical community is evil...a moneymaking machine.

Below I have quoted heavily from several sites, but mostly from STTM.
there are many causes, from STTM

"
_*Hypothyroidism*_ or the underactivity of the thyroid gland, is a condition which occurs when the thyroid gland fails to produce enough thyroid hormones, and/or there is a failure of the tissues to receive thyroid hormones. Some causes are common; some are more rare. Below is an outline of those potential causes. Recognize your own??
Iodine Insufficiency It's strongly proposed that millions of individuals develop hypothyroidism due to the lack of adequate iodine intake, which in turn is due to soil depletion and lack of iodine in our diet. Since iodine is necessary in the synthesis, storage and secretion of thyroid hormones, a deficiency of iodine can result in hypothyroidism. Hashimoto's Disease Also called "Hashi's" or "thyroiditis", this is an autoimmune disorder in which one's immune system attacks it's own thyroid cells, causing inflammation and eventually resulting in hypothyroid. In many cases a goiter develops because of the inflammation, but sometimes the thyroid gland can actually shrink. Patients with Hashi's can vascillate between hypo and hyper. There is a genetic predisposition to autoimmune disease, so if you have one, you are more at risk to have others, including Hashi's thyroiditis. It is proposed that a lack of iodine also plays a role in autoimmune attacks on the thyroid. Overtreatment for Graves Hyperthyroid or Hashi's with Radioactive Iodine If a person with Graves' disease or Hashimotos is treated with radioactive iodine (RAI), the thyroid gland is usually rendered partially or fully inactive. Over time, from a few months to a few years, hypothyroidism usually occurs. Thyroid Removal Surgery If much of the thyroid gland is surgically removed, the result can be hypothyroidism. Radiation of the face/neck/chest Whether for treatment of acne, or for Hodgkins Disease, this treatment from the 1960's through the 80's and beyond can be a precursor to developing thyroid disease, especially if the thyroid area wasn't protected. Tumor on the Pituitary Gland Also called Secondary Hypothyroidism, a tumor on the Pituitary gland interferes with the production of the Thyroid Stimulation Hormone, causing hypothyroidism as well as adrenal insufficiency. Disorders of the hypothalamus portions of the brain may also cause thyroid hormone deficiency. Trauma from Accidents or Surgery Trauma, such as from automobile accidents, surgery, or severe uterine hemorrhage during childbirth can result in Sheeans Syndrome, which is hypopituitarism, and results in hypothyroidism. Cholecystectomy and Hysterectomy, as well as Ttonsillectomy, can increase the risk of hypothyroid. Whiplash or neck trauma can cause hypothyroidism. Pharmaceutical Drug Induced Lithium, used in the treatment of bipolar manic-depressive disorder, inhibits thyroid hormone release and can also result in a goiter. The heart drug, Amiodarone, also increases your risk of hypothyroidism. Supplements On the opposite side of the coin of insufficient iodine is taking too much from iodine-containing herbs such as kelp, bladderwrack, or bugleweed can increase your risk for hypothyroidism. Many multivitamins, glandular support formulas and combination products contain these supplements. Over consumption of Goitrogenic Foods When eaten in large quantities, this class of foods can promote goiters and resulting hypothyroidism. They are mostly only a concern when served raw as cooking may minimize or eliminate goitrogenic potential. Goitrogenic foods include brussel sprouts, rutabaga, turnips, kohlrabi, radishes, cauliflower, African cassava, millet, babassu, cabbage, kale and soy products. Over consumption of Soy Products Soy products have a definite antithyroid and goitrogenic effect. Long term consumption of soy products can promote formation of goiters and development of autoimmune thyroid disease. Nutritional Deficiencies Deficiencies of iodine or minerals (selenium, iron, magnesium, zinc) or vitamins (vitamin A, vitamin B Riboflavin, Niacin, Pyridoxine, Vitamin C and Vitamin E) can affect thyroid hormone production. Cigarette Smoking Unfortunately, tobacco smoke contains cyanide, which is converted to thiocyanate, and which adversely acts as an anti-thyroid agent, inhibiting iodide uptake and hormone synthesis. The enlargement of the thyroid can occur due to smoking, which is a clue that the thyroid is negatively affected. Pregnancy/Childbirth Some doctors estimate that as many as 5 to 10% of women develop a thyroid problem after delivery. Childbirth can be a hormonal trigger for Hashimoto's Disease. The owner of this site has this as the cause of her hypothyroidism. Menopause Thyroid problems are known to surface at periods of hormonal upheaval and are more common just prior to or during menopause. (The owner of this site noticed her thyroid got a bit worse as she started to enter meno.) Aging Hypothyroidism becomes increasingly common as we age, particularly in women. Ten percent of all women over the age of 50 show signs of a failing thyroid. The percentage rises to 20% in women over 65. The owner of this site saw her 90+ year old father-in-law ease into severe hypothyroidism which the doctors refused to treat. Environmental Exposures Some patients have experienced the fact that fluoride and chlorine can interfere with proper thyroid conversion and result in hypothyroidism. Another concern is mercury, a component in dental fillings, which can disable the thyroid's ability to convert T4 to T3, resulting in hypothyroidism. Percholate and Other Toxic Chemicals Exposure Percholate blocks iodine from entering the thyroid, and prevents further synthesis of thyroid hormone. It is found in various water supplies around the nation, particularly in areas near rocket fuel or fireworks plants. There is strong evidence that exposure to certain toxic chemicals increase the risk of developing thyroid disease. Those that are of concern are dioxins, MTBE, and others that act as "endocrine disrupters". Additional Causes Polyunsaturated oils interfere with the release and transport of thyroid. Estrogen Dominance Excess Cysteine Accumulation of Iron in the thyroid gland (10% of those with hemochromatosis) Adrenal Insufficiency Thyroid Hormone Resistance Dysfunction of T4 to T3 conversion Congenital Hypothyroidism-being born without a thyroid Nuclear Plant Exposure"

As for symptoms, and remember, _not everyone has every symptom,_ and some people (like me) have conflicting symptoms. I was cold for most of my life while hyper, and hot all the time while hypo, which is the exact opposite of the norm.
from wrong diagnosis.com-

With hypothyroidism, weight gain occurs despite anorexia. Related signs and symptoms include fatigue; cold intolerance; constipation; menorrhagia; slowed intellectual and motor activity; dry, pale, cool skin; dry, sparse hair; and thick, brittle nails. Myalgia, hoarseness, hypoactive deep tendon reflexes, bradycardia, and abdominal distention may occur. Eventually, the face assumes a dull expression with periorbital edema.

From Thyroid.org.au

common symptoms of hypothyroidism:

Weight gain
Chronic constipation
Feeling cold (especially hands and feet) even on warm days
Low basal temperature
Fatigue, exhaustion and low energy (even after 12 hours sleep)
Slow reflexes
Slow, weak pulse
Slowness of thought processes (brain fog)
Indecisiveness
Poor memory and concentration
Sluggishness
Muscle weakness
Pain and stiffness in muscles or joints
Deepening, hoarse voice
Depression, mood swings and severe PMS
Thick, dry, coarse skin
Creviced, cracking skin on heels, elbows and knee caps
Enlarged thyroid gland
Lump in throat (hard to swallow)
High cholesterol
Menstrual cycle irregularities (prolonged and heavy)
Infertility
Numbness and tingling (especially in hands and face)
Fluid retention (swelling of face and feet)
Brittle hair and nails
Hair loss
Shortness of breath on exertion
Less common symptoms

Allergies
Back pain
Blood pressure problems
Breast tenderness
Irregular heartbeat
Chest pain
Digestive disturbances
Dizziness
Dry eyes and mouth
Headaches and migraines
Irritability
Pale skin
Palpitations
Reduced libido
Skin rashes
Sore throat
Stiff neck and shoulders
Thinning eye brows
Visual disturbances
From STTM, many women compiled the list of symptoms that were relieved when they switched to natural thyroid hormones:
*Long and Pathetic list of Hypothyroid Symptoms*

_*IMPORTANT TO NOTE: This is an IRONIC list. Granted, these are hypothyroid symptoms. BUT, these are symptoms that patients have had WHILE ON Thyroxine T4-only meds (Synthroid, Levoxyl, Levothyroxine, etc) and with a "target" TSH! Cough.*_
_*But there's MORE! In order to qualify to be on this list below, these ALSO had to be symptoms which were totally eradicated when these same patients got on natural dessicated thyroid like Armour and found their optimal dose:*_

_Less stamina than others_
_Less energy than others_
_Long recovery period after any activity_
_Inability to hold children for very long_
_Arms feeling like dead weights after activity_
_Chronic Low Grade Depression_
_Suicidal Thoughts_
_Often feeling cold_
_Cold hands and feet_
_High cholesterol_
_Bizarre and Debilitating reaction to exercise_
_Hard stools_
_Constipation_
_No eyebrows or thinning outer eyebrows_
_Dry Hair_
_Hair Loss_
_Dry cracking skin_
_Nodding off easily_
_Requires naps in the afternoon_
_Inability to concentrate or read long periods of time_
_Forgetfulness_
_Foggy thinking_
_Inability to lose weight_
_Always gaining weight_
_Inability to function in a relationship with anyone_
_NO sex drive_
_Moody periods_
_PMS_
_Excruciating pain during period_
_Nausea_
_Swelling/edema/puffiness_
_Aching bones/muscles_
_Osteoporosis_
_Bumps on legs_
_Acne on face and in hair_
_Breakout on chest and arms_
_Hives_
_Exhaustion in every dimension-physical, mental, spiritual, emotional_
_Inability to work full-time_
_Inability to stand on feet for long periods_
_Complete lack of motivation_
_Slowing to a snail's pace when walking up slight grade_
_Extremely crabby, irritable, intolerant of others_
_Handwriting nearly illegible_
_Internal itching of ears_
_Broken/peeling fingernails_
_Dry skin or snake skin_
_Major anxiety/worry_
_Ringing in ears_
_Lactose Intolerance_
_Inability to eat in the mornings_
_No hair growth, breaks faster than it grows_
_Joint pain_
_Carpal tunnel symptoms_
_No Appetite_
_Fluid retention to the point of Congestive Heart Failure_
_Swollen legs that prevented walking_
_Blood Pressure problems_
_Varicose Veins_
_Dizziness from fluid on the inner ear_
_Low body temperature_
_Raised temperature_
_Tightness in throat; sore throat_
_Swollen lymph glands_
_sore feet (plantar fascitis); painful soles of feet_
_now how do I put this one politely&#8230;.a cold bum, butt, derriere, fanny, gluteus maximus, haunches, hindquarters, posterior, rear, and/or cheeks. Yup, really exists._
_*
As you read the above list and some of the symptoms as your own, you have to now make a paradigm shift in the way society and doctors have taught you to ascertain whether you have hypothyroid or not.* Namely, you have to make SYMPTOMS your primary clue, NOT labwork. Labwork should only serve as additional information, NOT as the initial force of reality. *If you continue to look at labwork as THE answer, you are no better than hundreds of thousands of doctors around the world who have kept thyroid patients SICK!* That is especially true for the TSH, besides the total T4._
_Once you understand that SYMPTOMS are the clue, you can pursue correct and beneficial labwork as additional information._
_Next, you find a doctor who's ahead of the game, because he understands that SYMPTOMS are the main force, and that desiccated thyroid is the treatment of choice. You may have to drive farther to a good doc than any doctor you've ever had. But it's worth it._
_Additionally&#8230;no matter how excellent of a doctor you find, you need to become educated about what patients ahead of you have learned, and what mistakes you do not want to make. NO DOCTOR IS PERFECT, so YOU are your own best advocate._

My favorite quotes from the STTM site follow

_*THYROID MADNESS DEFINITION:*
*1.* Treating hypothyroid patients solely with T4-only meds
*2.* Dosing solely by the TSH and the total T4, or using the outdated "Thyroid Panel"
*3.* Prescribing anti-depressants in lieu of evaluating and treating the free T3
*4.* Telling thyroid patients that desiccated natural thyroid like Armour is "unreliable", "inconsistent", "dangerous" or "outdated".
*5.* Making labwork more important than the hypo symptoms which scream their presence
*6.* Failing to see the OBVIOUS symptoms of poorly treated thyroid, and instead, recommending a slew of other tests and diagnoses.

_Treatment that works? Natural hormones instead of synthetic. Many of us require adrenal supplements and/or hydrocortisone to help the thyroid hormone get into our cells after years of adrenal fatigue. Selenium, b vitamins, and various other supplements have been helpful for many of us also.

There are so many thyroid groups out there, and so many homeopathic docs, naturopathic docs, people who share information designed to help you avoid the years of hell we went through.... take advantage of it.

Google 'top thyroid docs' to find a site that will help you find docs in your area who are open to treating by symptoms and prescribing natural hormones instead of synthetics. Talk to the women in the thyroid groups.
Google, google, google.

Mary Shoman is a longtime advocate for thyroid patients and has gone head to head with many mainstream endocrinologists. Her site
http://thyroid.about.com/

There are forums there also, but many in the forums are advocates of synthroid which seems odd after all the work Mary's done to get the word out.

Hope this is more helpful than frightening. It makes me want to cry when I know someone who has all the symptoms of hypo but is in denial or in the thrall of a bad doctor, so I get all







when I get the opportunity.


----------



## transformed

omg

Quote:

Inability to concentrate or read long periods of time










Thanks for the information.









It seems like those are ALOT of symptoms though, wouldnt everyone have some of them?


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## bigeyes

probably. some of them keep coming up over and over again though. the woman who composed the STTM site ran a thyroid group for years and took surveys and comments from other women who had the same experience with doctors telling them they were _fine while they kept getting sicker._ I look at my most debilitating and persistent symptoms as a guide.
I lost my eyebrows, gained something like 80 lbs at the rate of 10 or more lbs a month _while on a diet and barely able to eat at all._ I forced myself to do an hour a day on the treadmill just to try to keep the weight at bay, then I would sleep for most of the day because I kept falling asleep when I tried to do anything else. My periods were so heavy I could barely leave the house, and the only thing a doctor would suggest was to _have my uterus cauterized._ He essentially told me he didn't know what was causing it, so he was going to treat the symptom.









Before this happened, I had been a superwoman who could work 3 jobs, run on no sleep, cook, clean, think, learn, exercise, have hobbies...and all effortlessly.

I did a complete 180 and nobody could tell me why. Suddenly, at 35, I was _bipolar._ Or _depressed._ Or _lazy_ and _lying_ about how much I ate and how much I exercized. _Or my brain had leaked out my ears._ At one point I was even diagnosed with narcolepsy. _Yeah._ In the past 10 years the only time I have felt 100% good was _when I smoked_ and I just found out it was because smoking increased my cortisol, which allowed my thyroid hormones to work better. So probably that was the only time I was ever optimized on my dosage, and my adrenals are _still not up to par since I'm not smoking any more.

_ So, even when you think you have it figured out, there is always something else to learn. I knew my adrenals had taken a dive, but I didn't realize smoking had actually helped.







: With all those stupid commericials for Relacore, people have the idea that cortisol is what is making them fat, but what they don't realize is, it not only does that if you have too much, it can also make you fat if you have too little.

It doesn't make sense that doctors aren't treating for this, but then, they make so much money treating for the side effects of hypo....obesity, high blood pressure, heart disease, depression, skin problems......so you can see how it makes financial sense in a truly evil way.







:


----------



## NocturnalDaze

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
I just had my thyroid tested and I'll get the results soon. I hope its a thyroid problem and not bi-polar. Yuck.









I WAS diagnosed as bipolar 10 years ago until my doc figured out it was really my thyroid. Honestly, I think A LOT of bipolar (especially bi-polar II) diagnoses are really misdiagnosed hypothyroidism.

Pharmaceutical companies make a lot more money off of anti-depressants and other bipolar (anti-seizure) drugs than they do off of Armour. I spend about $30 a month for my Armour prescription. My friend who was prescribed Lamictal for her bi-polar disorder pays $200 a month.


----------



## transformed

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
probably. some of them keep coming up over and over again though. the woman who composed the STTM site ran a thyroid group for years and took surveys and comments from other women who had the same experience with doctors telling them they were _fine while they kept getting sicker._ I look at my most debilitating and persistent symptoms as a guide.
I lost my eyebrows, gained something like 80 lbs at the rate of 10 or more lbs a month _while on a diet and barely able to eat at all._ I forced myself to do an hour a day on the treadmill just to try to keep the weight at bay, then I would sleep for most of the day because I kept falling asleep when I tried to do anything else. My periods were so heavy I could barely leave the house, and the only thing a doctor would suggest was to _have my uterus cauterized._ He essentially told me he didn't know what was causing it, so he was going to treat the symptom.









Before this happened, I had been a superwoman who could work 3 jobs, run on no sleep, cook, clean, think, learn, exercise, have hobbies...and all effortlessly.

I did a complete 180 and nobody could tell me why. Suddenly, at 35, I was _bipolar._ Or _depressed._ Or _lazy_ and _lying_ about how much I ate and how much I exercized. _Or my brain had leaked out my ears._ At one point I was even diagnosed with narcolepsy. _Yeah._ In the past 10 years the only time I have felt 100% good was _when I smoked_ and I just found out it was because smoking increased my cortisol, which allowed my thyroid hormones to work better. So probably that was the only time I was ever optimized on my dosage, and my adrenals are _still not up to par since I'm not smoking any more.

_ So, even when you think you have it figured out, there is always something else to learn. I knew my adrenals had taken a dive, but I didn't realize smoking had actually helped.







: With all those stupid commericials for Relacore, people have the idea that cortisol is what is making them fat, but what they don't realize is, it not only does that if you have too much, it can also make you fat if you have too little.

It doesn't make sense that doctors aren't treating for this, but then, they make so much money treating for the side effects of hypo....obesity, high blood pressure, heart disease, depression, skin problems......so you can see how it makes financial sense in a truly evil way.







:

Thats so weird because I quit smoking 2 years ago, and for some reason latley I have been conciously thinking "Mabye I should start smoking again." Its the weridest thought because there isnt any good reason to smoke, LOL.
(I am not going to,







)

I guess the issue that I think doctors are going to have is that it is a liability for them to treat the thyroid without a positive test. (I understand they routinley treatt he symproms ALL the time on other issues, but my thought is that thats what he is going to say.)

My doc did look at me a little weird when I walked in and demanded a bunch of tests because I am pregnant and that alone could cause all my symptoms. He said I would have to have all the tests re-done when the baby is born.

I have felt this way since I was 13-15 years old or so-so over 10 years. I did notice a change when I had my first child at 19 though. (I cant recall how much change occured though.)

I am becoming convinced that this is the issue...

I wonder if there are dangers in treating a thyroid problem if I am bi-polar, and my thyroid is, in fact, fine.


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## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
Thats so weird because I quit smoking 2 years ago, and for some reason latley I have been conciously thinking "Mabye I should start smoking again." Its the weridest thought because there isnt any good reason to smoke, LOL.
(I am not going to,







)

I wonder if there are dangers in treating a thyroid problem if I am bi-polar, and my thyroid is, in fact, fine.

It's crazy, but I've seriously consideried starting up the gum again.







: You just get so tired of feeling lousy that you get stupid sometimes.









Actually, there are _more_ dangers in treating you for bipolar disorder when you are in fact hypothyroid than there are in treating you for hypo when you are in fact bipolar. The smartest thing to do is try a natural thyroid supplement to see if it makes you feel better first.

The fact that psychicatric drugs often cause more problems than they solve, and the way they come out with new ones every year so they can keep charging higher prices....those are the things that _should_ scare people. I find it frightening that with all of our progress in this modern world, we have so many new diseases and _epidemic surges in old ones_,and the medical community's response is to dump the treatments that worked for inferior ones with scary side effects, and keep coming up with new drugs that make the problems worse. That makes no sense.

We're smarter than that. Women here know that many children with behavior problems benefit from the removal of dyes and chemicals in their diets. It's not that big of a leap to see that the other chemicals in our food _and drugs_ can cause problems in adults. The recalls on drugs like FenPhen are just another reminder that they _can and do_ approve drugs that are unsafe, and _we are just their guinea pigs._ It's an ugly business, and they make enough money to throw settlements at the people who successfully sue if it comes to that. So many are uninformed that gamble pays off for them in a huge way.

Do the research, find a good doctor who isn't being led around by a pharmaceutical or insurance company, and protect yourself. _Nobody else_ is going to look out for you _except you._


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## 3girlsmommy

I'm sure it's probably listed in this thread somewhere but what are some natural ways to treat hypothyroidism?


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## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *3girlsmommy* 
I'm sure it's probably listed in this thread somewhere but what are some natural ways to treat hypothyroidism?

The most natural way is to use natural hormones. Your body is deficient in a hormone that you can get with _a whole bunch of OTC supplements,_ which is _not cost effective,_ or you can get it with a prescription from a doctor who has a clue. Natural thyroid is _cheaper_ than the synthetics, which is just another thing that pisses me off about the whole racket. The natural thyroid drug is the way to go. The biggest problem vegetarians have is that it comes from animals







in which case the ethical problem may force you to go with a synthetic...if so, the best alternative is to ask for cytomel in addition to synthroid. I believe it is an inferior alternative, but it is better than synthroid alone. You kind of have to walk the line between natural coming from an animal and allowing you to have a certain quality of life or a synthetic that 'saves' animals but may not let you feel as well.

Something like this is low potency, non prescription, and expensive. A prescription is cheaper and is made from the same basic ingredients.
http://www.nutri-meds.com/Nutri_Meds...p/nm-g-ptc.htm

There are people who self treat using sources in other countries but they are very protective of those sources because of FDA pressure to shut them down.


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## 3girlsmommy

Thanks! Whats the natural prescription called? And how is the dose figured? I'm on synthroid 1.75. If I go into my doctor and tell him that this is what I want and back it up w/ info I'm pretty sure he'd do it.


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## KimPM

What I didn't add before about my story:
When I told my endo that I knew it was the soy that caused the goiter, she just looked at me like I had two heads. She never believed me (but then she never offered a plausible alternative explanation - "sometimes these things just happen"). I guess she never learned about cause and effect. Nevertheless, I am 100% certain that soy was the problem. Now, I have a different doctor.
Also, I was on compounded T3 for awhile (with the new doctor), until after I birthed DS (first and only so far), when I was not feeling like I needed the T3 anymore and T3/freeT3 tests supported me on that. I had some adrenal fatigue problems for awhile (caused by meds from the same endo above...but I won't go into detail now) and found my current doctor while looking for a solution. I used nutritional supplements for a few years to help the adrenal problem. I think the compounded T3 also helped.


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## transformed

So if nothing comes back on the tests I am having run regarding some kind of issue with my thyroid, should I ask the dr for a referral to the endo based on the symptoms?

Are specialists the way to go?

My doc is new to me, but he also does chelation and some other alternative therepys. He didnt vax his kids and is the only MD in the entire city who I know of who is anti-vax...I am glad about those things, but he is still just a regular internist. (I found him on some thyroid website though-I dont remember which one!)

I am excited to have him, but he is pretty dry and I only met with him once and couldnt read him...he seemed put off but I always think drs seem put off by my coming in with an agenda. LOL


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## KimPM

Every endo I've seen seems to read from the same script; you know the one, from the conventional medical establishment. All the endos I know go strictly by test results, and don't give a hill of beans about your symptoms. If you can find -from referrals- a good doctor who treats the thyroid, then you are doing well. (I know, it's hard to find a good one.) Some doctors will treat based on more than just the lab tests.


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## ~*Trish*~

Hi there!

I JUST found this thread and have a lot of catch up reading to do.

I was diagnosed with the family Hashimoto's about four years ago and have remained stable and functional on Levothroid.

With this last pregnancy (delivered 4/19/07), TSH levels have gone on a cra-a-a-zy roller coaster. I am currently on 100mcg of Levothroid and retesting this week.

Something is still out of whack because the anxiety, intrusive thoughts and nightmares will not go away. Could be PPD too? Maybe.

The most depressing symptom right now is a massive hair shed.







:

Thanks for the great links and hugs to all you who are seeking relief!


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## jenrose

No way I can get through 28 pages... too tired.

Let's see...diagnosed with "mild hypothyroid" in 2006. Despite telling them in 2001 that my hair was falling out, I was tired and fat, etc. I managed to claw my way down about 40 pounds anyway, but a miscarriage and a term pregnancy put enough stress on my thyroid that the babywearing conference planning and my FIL's death managed to finish it off but good--I had my thyroid tested about a month apart, and even after going on synthroid, my TSH was still going up. They kept telling me the synthroid would make me feel better in a few weeks--then they upped my dose and I completely *crashed* and fired the doc and went to a naturopath, expecting them to prescribe Armour. Well, she put me on straight t-3, and I felt okay for about 5 minutes while weaning off T-4 and onto t-3. After a few months of her "wilson's temperature syndrome" treatment (Hello, I was *clinical* at that point!) I insisted she take me off T-3 and put me on Armour. I'm doing better on the Armour than on either of the individual synthetics.... but the dose is still not right. My new naturopath (fired the other one) listens but was going by numbers and I finally said, "Look. I know what the lab ranges say. But I felt better at .3 than .6, even if .3 is "too low", and clearly my levels are not stable yet."

So she prescribed 90 of the little 15-mg tablets and now I am titrating my dose upward until my morning temps are in the right ballpark and my eyebrows grow back. I'm up a full 45 mg from where she'd sort of let me idle for 6 months, and still not where I think I ultimately will be...but for now, I am starting to have a few hairs in the outsides of my eyebrows which were just *gone*. If the hair on my head grows back I'll be ecstatic.

It was putting on 15 pounds *after* going on treatment that really got me peeved.

I also had to go off of zyrtec and mirena, both of which were causing fatigue and weight gain--no wonder I'm heavier than I've ever been!


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## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *3girlsmommy* 
Thanks! Whats the natural prescription called? And how is the dose figured? I'm on synthroid 1.75. If I go into my doctor and tell him that this is what I want and back it up w/ info I'm pretty sure he'd do it.

go to the natural thyroid hormones group on yahoo for the conversion rate, it's been so long I don't recall. The women there know this stuff inside out and will be able to help you out. They can also tell you the common arguments your doc will have against natural hormones and what to counter with.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
So if nothing comes back on the tests I am having run regarding some kind of issue with my thyroid, should I ask the dr for a referral to the endo based on the symptoms?

Are specialists the way to go?

My doc is new to me, but he also does chelation and some other alternative therepys. He didnt vax his kids and is the only MD in the entire city who I know of who is anti-vax...I am glad about those things, but he is still just a regular internist. (I found him on some thyroid website though-I dont remember which one!)

I am excited to have him, but he is pretty dry and I only met with him once and couldnt read him...he seemed put off but I always think drs seem put off by my coming in with an agenda. LOL

Google top docs and search in your state for doctors who prescribe natural thyroid supplements, and read the comments from patients. You will be able to see who treats by symptoms instead of TSH, and who listens to their patients. They work for you, not the other way around. It's a shame so few of them remember that.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~*Trish*~* 
Hi there!

I JUST found this thread and have a lot of catch up reading to do.

I was diagnosed with the family Hashimoto's about four years ago and have remained stable and functional on Levothroid.

With this last pregnancy (delivered 4/19/07), TSH levels have gone on a cra-a-a-zy roller coaster. I am currently on 100mcg of Levothroid and retesting this week.

Something is still out of whack because the anxiety, intrusive thoughts and nightmares will not go away. Could be PPD too? Maybe.

The most depressing symptom right now is a massive hair shed.







:

Thanks for the great links and hugs to all you who are seeking relief!

Your problem is LEVO. You need the complete replacement you get from natural hormones.


----------



## jenrose

BTW... The doc who had me on the t-3 was really sure I had adrenal fatigue, but she prescribed dessicated cow adrenals and they made me feel totally panicky the two days I took them, so I stopped. She also had me on 1000 mg of B-12 per day by injection, but it really did not seem to help any more than oral stuff, so I stopped that. New doc wanted me on plant sterols--but they are derived from pine and I reacted to them.









Ideas? Alternatives? What should I be asking for? Why can't I find a doc who will actually connect all the dots?


----------



## transformed

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
They work for you, not the other way around. It's a shame so few of them remember that.

I decided that before I went in the other week. I was so nervous about asking the doc for all these tests, and then I thought

"Wait, I am PAYING this guy to be my doctor, technically, he is employed by ME."

LOL

That made me feel better.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jenrose* 
BTW... The doc who had me on the t-3 was really sure I had adrenal fatigue, but she prescribed dessicated cow adrenals and they made me feel totally panicky the two days I took them, so I stopped. She also had me on 1000 mg of B-12 per day by injection, but it really did not seem to help any more than oral stuff, so I stopped that. New doc wanted me on plant sterols--but they are derived from pine and I reacted to them.









Ideas? Alternatives? What should I be asking for? Why can't I find a doc who will actually connect all the dots?

That is the experience I had with adrenal stuff too. I had better luck with hydrocortisone, but I am still working on getting to the optimum dose. I was really scared of using it because I thought I'd get cushings, but it is helping a lot, and so far no ill effects.

Why injections of b12? You can get sublingual b12 tabs that work.

One of the things many people don't know is that you should take your b12 and your thyroid meds under your tongue so they go directly to your blood stream instead of through your stomach. It makes a big difference.

The search for a good doc is the hardest part of this. Did you google top docs yet? So far I've heard good things about a guy in Las Vegas, a guy in Texas, and I saw a good one in California who does phone consults. It kills me they're all so expensive, but in the end, the bad ones covered by my insurance cost me so much more in terms of lost work and lost time with my family, not to mention money spent on useless drugs and just feeling like crap _all the time._


----------



## transformed

I just found out my mom medicates for either hypo or hyper thyroid but she doesnt know which! I doubt she will call the doc to find out but if I find out the pill name, will I be able to identify the deficiancy?


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## bigeyes

yeah. find out and google it.


----------



## transformed

Borderline Personality Disorder

Has anyone been diagnosed but found out its actually thyroid/adrenal?

I am "diagnosing" myself with BPD right now.







Watching a documentary that is really speaking to my symptoms.










I annoy my family.







:


----------



## NocturnalDaze

Symptoms of BPD:

*Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment
*A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation
Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self
*Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating)
*Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior
*Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days)
*Chronic feelings of emptiness
*Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights)
*Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms

I can definately see hypothyroidism causing a lot of these symptoms....

Then again, I think much of the psychology profession may very well collapse if hypo was actually treated correctly.


----------



## ~*Trish*~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
Your problem is LEVO. You need the complete replacement you get from natural hormones.

Thanks! This is the first I've heard of them (naturals), so I will be checking into that. Here's hoping for a simple answer ...







Take care.


----------



## transformed

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NocturnalDaze* 
Symptoms of BPD:

*Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment
*A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation
Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self
*Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating)
*Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior
*Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days)
*Chronic feelings of emptiness
*Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights)
*Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms

I can definately see hypothyroidism causing a lot of these symptoms....

Then again, I think much of the psychology profession may very well collapse if hypo was actually treated correctly.









ALL of those symptoms fit me perfectly. There isnt even one on the list that I havent suffered in the last 10 years. And I have been suffering for 10 years!

I never really self mutilated, but I always wished I could. (I know, weird) When I have ever had suicidal thoughts, they are always really erratic and they come out of nowhere and then within a few minutes-go away. I think I have trained myself how to keep myself safe. I am not concerned that I would ever hurt myself and I am pretty self aware. (I would admit it if I ever did!)

I dont think BPD can be medicated, just managed.

hmmmm...It is confusing to know what to do. I dont want to see a bunch of docs and treat for a bunch of problems.


----------



## Needle in the Hay

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 

One of the things many people don't know is that you should take your b12 and your thyroid meds under your tongue so they go directly to your blood stream instead of through your stomach. It makes a big difference.


Does that go for the synthetic meds too? I have been taking euthyrox for 3 weeks now. I hope to eventually switch to armour but I decided to take what the dr. prescribed and see how it goes. For now. My main issue is secondary infertility (we've been ttc #2 for about 5 yrs) but I have some of the other symptoms too. I just don't care about them as much as the infertility.

What is weird is that he told me he was prescribing me a natural medication, but of course he did not, it's levothyroxine (I think that what it's called, the box is upstairs and I'm hypo, so of course I don't feel like going to get it







) so even though he seemed to know what he was talking about (he did an ultrasound, he didn't just rely on blood tests --though mine did indicate low thyroid function-- and he did write down my symptoms) it worries me that he said I would be taking a natural thyroid med.


----------



## transformed

It turns out my mom has a hypothyroid. But she still experiences most of the symptoms.

I was very interested the other day when I wikipedia'd borderline personality disorder that the FIRST thing it said about diagnosing BPD is to first have your thyroid tested. I have almost all the symptoms of BPD but it certainly wouldnt explain things like "sensitivity to cold."









I feel positive that I may finally know whats going on with my body.

My dh is going to be stoked if I figure it out besidees all the emotional stuff because then moving home to colorado may actually be a posibility! (Its to friggin cold for me now)


----------



## neveryoumindthere

Maybe he meant natural as in, this is something your body would produce anyway?


----------



## Electra375

I don't think I read the entire thread right now. But I've been on a low thyroid journey for a few years. Ignored by my family doctor, a gyn did some tests for me more than just the TSH, sent me to an endo, who said check back w your gyn in a year, gyn called me back in and prescribed Synthroid for me.

As I read, I think I need to be taking T3. I think I also need the blood test that tell whether T3 is active or non active type in my body.

I live in blah. I dropped 8lbs my first month on Synthroid and no more since, in fact I gained 3lbs back. And I'm not eating more, I'm eating less and less and less.

My problem is my TSH is completely normal .82, but T4 and T3 levels are low within range by 1 10th of a point. My symptoms however are right on par for hypothyroidism and I do feel better, just not 100% yet.

I hate to bother the GYN for a different med, I don't want to push my luck. He just gave me a years script that I turned into our ins script people so I just have to re-order every 3 months and they ship it out, much cheaper.

I'm actually trying a little bit more T4, but I think I really need T3. And I'm undecided if I want to try Amour or go with an addition of Cymotel. If I make up my mind and go see the GYN, I think he will comply and write it for me. Especially if I bring in the articles documenting my request is sound science.

BTW - he states Thyroid meds and treatment are not clear cut science, so anything I bring in would be probably fine with him.

I am also taking supplements for my thyroid. I'm working off of Julia Ross's The Diet Cure and The Mood Cure books. It's a supplement regime that should aid my thyroid back to health.

I also know that this past pregnancy I was suffering from low thyroid and it caused my anemia. I've never been anemic in my life and there is no dietary cause for it. I would also bet I'm Iodine deficient given I eat no iodized salt and make most everything from scratch, in addition to not being raised in the US. Endo doc who sent me away would not test for it, said it does not exist anymore, must not have heard me say how my life has been...

Doctors in general suck IMO. The gyn I found has been great thus far, nice guy, wants to help me. The Endo he sent me to, an a$$. This Endo actually told a friend of mine who has Graves and developed Type II diabetes that he would not see her anymore!!! She was devistated, what kind of endo decides that sort of thing about a woman??? I'm so glad he didn't want to treat me.


----------



## transformed

Does anyone have a website where all of the thyroid stuff is explained in VERY BASIC language. I know I had a test. I know I am testing Free T3 and Free T4, but I have no idea _what_ that is?!?!?!

I want to figure out _how_ the thyroid works, and then how it malfunctions before i figure out how to fix it. I need to know whatt he thyroid _does_ first!!! (OR doesnt do.







)

I need to be talked to like I am 5.









Jenny


----------



## transformed

One more question-







Thank you all for your patience!

Is this an autoimmune disease?

Is it something you just manage or is it something you cure?


----------



## Electra375

Been reading backwards...
Yes finding supplements and getting the quantities right is expensive. I take Zinc, magnesium, selenium, Vit C, Vit Bs (mega complex stuff), Calcium (not every day and not with my synthroid), Chromium (to help w my blood sugar), Iodine as Kelp and some other things, Adrenal gland & thyroid gland stuff from chiropractor, enzymes, probiotics, Omega 3s Prenatal formula, Omega 6s as Evening PrimeRose Oil, Iron, then L-glutamine, L-tyrosine, GABA, another L something.
During my last pregnancy this was all I could b/c I used a non-licensed mw and no docs will see you in this town except OBs when you are pregnant.
Since then I've been given Synthroid, but it isn't 100% and I've gone back to the supplements hoping for some energy and getting out of the blahs and enough focus to do the things I love - sewing! I can't think straight to do anything.
I so wonder if Armour or adding Cymotel would help.
I just started reading Mary Solomon The Thryoid Diet, it's hard to concentrate to read.


----------



## transformed

Armour seems....weird....to me.....Is anyone concerned with putting pig hormones in their body?


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Needle in the Hay* 
Does that go for the synthetic meds too? I have been taking euthyrox for 3 weeks now. I hope to eventually switch to armour but I decided to take what the dr. prescribed and see how it goes. For now. My main issue is secondary infertility (we've been ttc #2 for about 5 yrs) but I have some of the other symptoms too. I just don't care about them as much as the infertility.

What is weird is that he told me he was prescribing me a natural medication, but of course he did not, it's levothyroxine (I think that what it's called, the box is upstairs and I'm hypo, so of course I don't feel like going to get it







) so even though he seemed to know what he was talking about (he did an ultrasound, he didn't just rely on blood tests --though mine did indicate low thyroid function-- and he did write down my symptoms) it worries me that he said I would be taking a natural thyroid med.

I'm not very well versed in the infertility stuff, go to natural thyroid hormones on yahoo, and STTM, and read up. I'd be very leery of a doctor who either lied about or was ignorant about the difference between natural and synthetic.







: I do know that hypo causes huge problems with fertility and miscarriages, but that is one thing I don't have a lot of experience with. I was infertile for years, but they thought it was for another reason and at the time I just accepted it. I didn't know any of this stuff until about 1999 or 2000 and I'm still learning.


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## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *neveryoumindthere* 
Maybe he meant natural as in, this is something your body would produce anyway?

Except it isn't. Your body produces more than is in the synthetics. The natural contains more than just what is in the synthetics.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
One more question-







Thank you all for your patience!

Is this an autoimmune disease?

Is it something you just manage or is it something you cure?

It can't really be cured, you just manage it with hormones.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 









Does anyone have a website where all of the thyroid stuff is explained in VERY BASIC language. I know I had a test. I know I am testing Free T3 and Free T4, but I have no idea _what_ that is?!?!?!

I want to figure out _how_ the thyroid works, and then how it malfunctions before i figure out how to fix it. I need to know whatt he thyroid _does_ first!!! (OR doesnt do.







)

I need to be talked to like I am 5.









Jenny

www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

yahoo.com groups naturalthyroidhormones

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
Armour seems....weird....to me.....Is anyone concerned with putting pig hormones in their body?

No more concerned than I am with people putting pregnant horse urine in their bodies via birth control pills and estrogen replacements, or genetically modified crapola like soy and corn that is in virtually any food you buy that you don't make from scratch, or the chemicals that are in our air and water, or the gazillion other harmful things that we consume every day that should have never been approved by the FDA.







: In fact, I'm a lot less concerned since this illness was probably caused by all of _those_ things.

Once you start researching this, you will be reading for the rest of your life.
I just finished _Fight for Your Health:Exposing the FA's Betrayal of America._

Everyone who has or suspects hypothyroid should read books about the FDA, and _The Whole Soy Story._

It is not a coincidence that so many started getting sick when they started putting soy into our food, flouride in our water, and thimerisol into our children. It's all related. It is also no coincidence that so many stayed sick when they introduced synthetic thyroid hormones as the preferred treatment. It's big business disguised as progress and it's costing people their health and their lives.


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## Electra375

Oprah's show today, right now on the east coast is on THYROID and Menopause. Going to watch it...


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Electra375* 
Oprah's show today, right now on the east coast is on THYROID and Menopause. Going to watch it...

My thyroid group has been writing to Oprah for years trying to get her to do a show.

I am disappointed that Dr. Northrup is one of her guests, as she is a big soy pusher and soy is known to be bad for thyroid patients.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:

Is it something you just manage or is it something you cure?
Transformed, I think it can be cured, depending on the cause. I started my reading at ithyroid.com (but I admit, it's a big site, and maybe not as easy to navigate as one would like). The guy who put up the site took a self-treatment approach and gathered a lot of research and put up a list of vitamins/minerals that should, essentially, feed the thyroid what it needs to work well again. That said, and although that approach actually made me feel a whole lot better, other health problems had me ending up at a healthcare provider who said that my thyroid problems (and other stuff) were more fundamentally related to the mercury in my fillings (which subsequently started messing up the minerals in my body... etc). Other people have different causes, but at least one other person in this thread (um, what's her name? search the thread for alternative M.D., that's what she ended up with) have also treated (temporarily, not taking pills forever) with vitamins/minerals.


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## Electra375

Oprah show was a might bit disappointing in the thyroid area, but I'm sitting there thinking OMG I'm only 32 and I'm just likes these women over 35 and 40!!! OMG I'm too young to be this old...

Soy pusher or not, I think that docs book might be a good read with something to gleen from it. Any MD that talks Chankras has got to have something worth wild to read, IMO.

I wrote to Oprah's show once to get her to put Celiac Disease on there -- nope.


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## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Electra375* 
Oprah show was a might bit disappointing in the thyroid area, but I'm sitting there thinking OMG I'm only 32 and I'm just likes these women over 35 and 40!!! OMG I'm too young to be this old...

Soy pusher or not, I think that docs book might be a good read with something to gleen from it. Any MD that talks Chankras has got to have something worth wild to read, IMO.

I wrote to Oprah's show once to get her to put Celiac Disease on there -- nope.

I'm going to set the DVR for the show anyway. I'm sitting here re-reading The Whole Soy Story and getting pissed off all over again.







:

I wish I had the energy and the resources to grow and raise all my own food. I'm doing all I can as it is, but it may not be enough.


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## Electra375

With all the crazy dieting Oprah has done in her life and probably turned to the soy craze herself, I am not suprised at all when she started the show today by saying she's been tired, etc. And then saying her thyroid was shot. Hmmm, adrenals??? Oh and she fixed it herself??? yeah, right, she has put on some weight too. I noticed that the last time I saw her show, I'm not a show fan.

You don't fix a thryoid problem in a month or two, not IME. And turning to ONLY that doc will definitely not be the 1 stop shop for a cure.

I think I would bet money she is taking thyroid meds.


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## transformed

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 

No more concerned than I am with people putting pregnant horse urine in their bodies via birth control pills and estrogen replacements, or genetically modified crapola like soy and corn that is in virtually any food you buy that you don't make from scratch, or the chemicals that are in our air and water, or the gazillion other harmful things that we consume every day that should have never been approved by the FDA.







: In fact, I'm a lot less concerned since this illness was probably caused by all of _those_ things.

Once you start researching this, you will be reading for the rest of your life.
I just finished _Fight for Your Health:Exposing the FA's Betrayal of America._

Everyone who has or suspects hypothyroid should read books about the FDA, and _The Whole Soy Story._

It is not a coincidence that so many started getting sick when they started putting soy into our food, flouride in our water, and thimerisol into our children. It's all related. It is also no coincidence that so many stayed sick when they introduced synthetic thyroid hormones as the preferred treatment. It's big business disguised as progress and it's costing people their health and their lives.

It already stresses me out, and I havent even done that much reading on the evils of all that stuff!







I know just enough to be pissed off alot.

What do they site as the cause of putting all that in our bodies? Total mind control?







: I know, I know-its messed up...just like for profit health care, my #1 evil right now.







:

I am in a yahoo group-I'll go back over there and visit soon...or it might be an andrenal fatigue one.

I think I would like to get a copy of my test results _before_ my doc appointment so I can try and decypher them myself and have something intelligent to say to try to work with the doc.

I dont know if he will give me medicine without the test results saying I need it. It seems like it could be a huge liability for the doctor? I can understand that-people sue for EVERYTHING.

I dont even know if I can take this stuff while pregnant or nursing anyways!

I am visualizing a day when I am happy, and not yelling at my kids for no reason, and my brain doesnt feel like it only works 5% of the time. I know that day is near!


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Electra375* 
With all the crazy dieting Oprah has done in her life and probably turned to the soy craze herself, I am not suprised at all when she started the show today by saying she's been tired, etc. And then saying her thyroid was shot. Hmmm, adrenals??? Oh and she fixed it herself??? yeah, right, she has put on some weight too. I noticed that the last time I saw her show, I'm not a show fan.

You don't fix a thryoid problem in a month or two, not IME. And turning to ONLY that doc will definitely not be the 1 stop shop for a cure.

I think I would bet money she is taking thyroid meds.

I would also bet she's taking a synthetic, and she's still eating a bunch of soy. With all her money, she could see any doctor she wanted.

For a woman who is so accomplished she does a lot of stupid things. I remember being so mad when she admitted she'd smoked crack with a boyfriend that I stopped watching the show for years. I still get irritated with her fairly often and I rarely watch. She just seems so out of touch with reality sometimes.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
It already stresses me out, and I havent even done that much reading on the evils of all that stuff!







I know just enough to be pissed off alot.

What do they site as the cause of putting all that in our bodies? Total mind control?







: I know, I know-its messed up...just like for profit health care, my #1 evil right now.







:

I am in a yahoo group-I'll go back over there and visit soon...or it might be an andrenal fatigue one.

I think I would like to get a copy of my test results _before_ my doc appointment so I can try and decypher them myself and have something intelligent to say to try to work with the doc.

I dont know if he will give me medicine without the test results saying I need it. It seems like it could be a huge liability for the doctor? I can understand that-people sue for EVERYTHING.

I dont even know if I can take this stuff while pregnant or nursing anyways!

I am visualizing a day when I am happy, and not yelling at my kids for no reason, and my brain doesnt feel like it only works 5% of the time. I know that day is near!









This is exactly why I'm so angry. I have had to learn everything myself. I found the yahoo group on my own, and the internet literally saved my life.

I have gone to so many bad doctors, and I have missed out on so much because of bad health that was caused by bad medicine and big business poisoning me and millions of others.

I'm mad as hell and I'm tired of being told that I'm paranoid. Anyone who isn't paranoid isn't paying attention. They are killing us slowly while they grow rich. The more research I do, the more bad stuff I learn.

Read your labels when you go to the store. Google the stuff you can't identify and see what it is. It doesn't make sense for people who are concerned about the garbage that is in vaccines to put the garbage that is in processed foods into their bodies, does it?

We can't trust big business to protect any interests but their own. And pharmaceuticals and food are very big business. Hypothyroidism and your quality of life are collateral damage.


----------



## transformed

btw-thank you for "stopthethyroidmadness.com" this is an AMAZING website!!!


----------



## transformed

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
This is exactly why I'm so angry. I have had to learn everything myself. I found the yahoo group on my own, and the internet literally saved my life.

I have gone to so many bad doctors, and I have missed out on so much because of bad health that was caused by bad medicine and big business poisoning me and millions of others.

I'm mad as hell and I'm tired of being told that I'm paranoid. Anyone who isn't paranoid isn't paying attention. They are killing us slowly while they grow rich. The more research I do, the more bad stuff I learn.

Read your labels when you go to the store. Google the stuff you can't identify and see what it is. It doesn't make sense for people who are concerned about the garbage that is in vaccines to put the garbage that is in processed foods into their bodies, does it?

We can't trust big business to protect any interests but their own. And pharmaceuticals and food are very big business. Hypothyroidism and your quality of life are collateral damage.

Soy is EVERYWHERE.

So have you managed to manage your thyroid stuff?

Do you feel healthy yet?


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
Soy is EVERYWHERE.

So have you managed to manage your thyroid stuff?

Do you feel healthy yet?









I go up and down. I had an amazing doctor but we moved.








I also just found out that smoking raises cortisol, which helps your thyroid homone get into your system and work properly, so when I quit smoking and suddenly gained weight overnight and my symptoms came back, it was because of the drop in cortisol.

I'm now dosing with hydrocortisone and trying to get my adrenals back in shape but it's a long process. I'm getting better slowly but I swear if dh wasn't so anti smoking I'd go buy cigarettes right now.







:

I'm seeing an improvement but I'm not _right_ yet. I'm fanatical about watching what I eat. I just found a naturopath in a nearby town, so I may give her a try. We don't have the option of ordering our own tests in our state and I'm not going to waste any more time on endos, so it's either find a naturopath or fly somewhere. I have plenty of thyroid meds for a while so I don't have to go searching for a prescription any time soon.


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## Electra375

I have my GYN ordering the tests I want. So far, so good. He really seems geniunely interested in helping me. It's a first for me, a doctor who seems to truly care. He even says he can fix my bladder problems... Wouldn't that be great! I didn't even tell him I had a bladder problem, he figured it out when I had a vaginal u/s recently and my bladder was not empty after I just went -- it's the story of my life, I travel with a toilet.


----------



## MujerMamaMismo

What do you think?

A week ago I started taking a tiny dose (less than 15mg) of thyroxine (australian equivalent of synthroid). I am also taking selenium, tyrosine, B12, D3 and a pregnancy multi. My iodine levels are fine.

Anyway, the last couple of days I've felt awful. I've skipped 2 days of work because i feel so depressed and miserable. I haven't slept properly for 3 nights now and subsequently I have a horrible headache.

Do you think it's the thyroxine?


----------



## transformed

I hope you dont mind me asking, but what challenges have you all faces in your ability to parent your children?

What has medicine improved for you, and what hasnt it?

I am curious how thyroid issues have shaped your parenting.


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## bigeyes

Well, the fatigue, irritability and depression obviously make it more difficult. I feel like the kids are short changed because I used to be so energetic and fun, and now I'm not. With every improvement things get a little better, but I often feel like I'll never really be me again, and I don't like it that their memories will be of this sickly, lethargic, cranky person I've become.


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## bigeyes

http://thyroid.about.com/b/a/257479.htm

Apparently I wasn't the only one disappointed in Oprah's thyroid show.


----------



## Electra375

I wonder if my blood sugars not being so great are related. I've gotten fasting sugar at or near 100 and that has never happened before. I'm usually 60 to 80.

My body is falling apart and I hate this, I'm too young.

I need an over haul. I'm in prediabetes, I just know it. My mother was close to my age.

As for the letter from Mary Shomon and Dr. Northrups words --

Quote:

"In many women thyroid dysfunction develops because of an energy blockage in the throat region, the result of a lifetime of 'swallowing' words one is aching to say. In the name of preserving harmony, or because these women have learned to live as relatively helpless members of their families or social groups, they have learned to stifle their self-expression....It's no coincidence that so many more women than men have thyroid problems. Thyroid disease is related to expressing your feelings..."
I happen to think there is some relavance about Chankras and diseases in the body. I know for a fact I "swallowed" words and allowed my ILs to live in our home for 5 1/2 years of our lives to keep the "peace" between my dh and I. I suppressed every rage, unkind thought, and kept my mouth shut about the drinking & prescriptions drugs they did, the smoking, the smoking of illegal substances, the watching of TV and movies in front of our very young children inappropriate for our children (Dogma for one), they lack of respect for our home, our parenting values, etc.

So when I read this above quote I know that at my tender age of 32, those 5 1/2 yrs of living hell probably had something to do with breaking down my body. But not the only thing by any means. It does not work that way in my head. Now, how to heal from it...


----------



## transformed

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
http://thyroid.about.com/b/a/257479.htm

Apparently I wasn't the only one disappointed in Oprah's thyroid show.

Am I missing something? I cant find a thyroid show....and I tape every single Oprah!

I watched a show on menopause but there was like 2 words said about thyroid...

I am going to recheck my DVR.

IMO, if it raises awareness, its good for the cause, even if the info isnt completley 100%.


----------



## Electra375

Energy --

I had a 3 minute burst of energy this morning at 10:30ish. It didn't last. I got my laundry sort of put away. It was the best 3 minutes I've had in a long time.

I know a supplement routine takes time to build up to a good level, especially when dealing with deficiencies which I'm nearly certain I do have and 100% certain on iron.

I took my regular Synthroid when I wake up. And I took 10 minutes before this burst, 3 L tryosine instead of the 2 I had been taking. When I was pregnant I was taking 4. And it took about 45 days to start to feel right.

Oh... I guess my next dosing hour I will take 4. I didn't want to take so many with the Synthroid... I just don't think the Synthroid is cutting it, it's like I might as well not even take it, especially if I have to spend the money on L-tyrosine anyway.

I'm playing with fire and I know it, but all I have is a GYN who will script me drugs. He just isn't able to guide me to better living. Maybe when my T3 comes in that will be all I need. I display so many symptoms of simply T3 problems.

Better living is what I want. I want to have the energy to clean my house, play with my children, get back into the kitchen and bake for my Celiac sons, do extra things I like to do, I'm just a vegatable all day these days living in blah zone...


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
Am I missing something? I cant find a thyroid show....and I tape every single Oprah!

I watched a show on menopause but there was like 2 words said about thyroid...

I am going to recheck my DVR.

IMO, if it raises awareness, its good for the cause, even if the info isnt completley 100%.

That's it exactly. It was touted as her big revelation about her thyroid disorder, and instead she has on a doctor who tells us to take a bubble bath and masturbate and we'll be fine.







: She barely talked about her thyroid at all, and if you look at her, her face shows all the signs of hypo since last year. All of her features are thicker since last year, her eyes appear smaller and puffy, the difference between recent photos and those from last year are exactly like those from women in my thyroid group. She didn't mention what she takes, but I would bet a bunch of money she is on a synthetic, and still ingesting lots of soy, because Dr. Northrup is a soy fan.

The whole thing makes me sick.

Click on the link and read the letter so you understand what we are talking about. Mary spelled it all out.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 
What do you think?

A week ago I started taking a tiny dose (less than 15mg) of thyroxine (australian equivalent of synthroid). I am also taking selenium, tyrosine, B12, D3 and a pregnancy multi. My iodine levels are fine.

Anyway, the last couple of days I've felt awful. I've skipped 2 days of work because i feel so depressed and miserable. I haven't slept properly for 3 nights now and subsequently I have a horrible headache.

Do you think it's the thyroxine?

Go to the sites and read, and decide for yourself. I always think its the synthetic that is the problem.


----------



## Electra375

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 
What do you think?

A week ago I started taking a tiny dose (less than 15mg) of thyroxine (australian equivalent of synthroid). I am also taking selenium, tyrosine, B12, D3 and a pregnancy multi. My iodine levels are fine.

Anyway, the last couple of days I've felt awful. I've skipped 2 days of work because i feel so depressed and miserable. I haven't slept properly for 3 nights now and subsequently I have a horrible headache.

Do you think it's the thyroxine?

It would make sense on the time line. A week ago, 7 days started thryoxine, 3 to 4 days into it you started to feel aweful. Sleep is the big suggestion that the thyroxine might not be right for you.

But when did you start the other supplements?

Are you taking the pregi mutli b/c you are pregnant?

I did not have any major change in symptoms taking the low dose of Synthroid. In fact, I'd like to feel something, anything (good or bad) would be better than nothing.

What was your dx based on? I have been enlightened by reading up on Wilson's Syndrome and the T3 hormone. I think that is my missing key.


----------



## Electra375

An ah ha moment...

Cravings are signals to me that I need something I'm not getting nutritionally.

Ice crunching = Iron need
Chocolate = Magnesium

And I just figured out why I crave potatos and I had a serious craving for them in my pregnancy

Potatos = Potassium
(same for bananas, but I don't usually crave those)

And potassium increases cellular responsse to T3, which I know I don't have enough of.


----------



## transformed

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Electra375* 
An ah ha moment...

Cravings are signals to me that I need something I'm not getting nutritionally.

Ice crunching = Iron need
Chocolate = Magnesium

And I just figured out why I crave potatos and I had a serious craving for them in my pregnancy

Potatos = Potassium
(same for bananas, but I don't usually crave those)

And potassium increases cellular responsse to T3, which I know I don't have enough of.

Hey-where did you get those? I need a list of cravings!!!! I eat some things until I feel like I am going to throw up! (And I crave certain foods at certain times)

Also, I need a







magic nutritional pill to temporarily fix my isssues. I quit Omega3's because they were torture to swallow and I took them for a month with no changes in cognative function. Swallowing pills makes me gag just thinking about it. I can hardly get myself to take my prentals.

Or even the liquid iron/b vitiman.

Anyone have anything magical that will help me get through my day?

(Besides not drinking starbucks for breakfast and eating mcdonalds for lunch. Those were bad ideas....oops....there goes my day!)


----------



## Electra375

ithryoid.com has some supplements and how they affect the body that is where I had my ah ha moment for potassium

Iron and ice is a pregnancy myth thing that happens to be true for millions
Chocolate and magesium was something I came across in the last few years, don't remember where.

If I have enough magnesium, I don't crave chocolate. It can sit in front of me and I won't eat it and if I do it taste bad and I think why did I even eat that. And I LOVE chocolate.

There are some vitamins that are in liquid forms, look in a HFS, but it isn't going to be enough to rebuild deficiencies and you risk in a multi getting too much of one thing and not enough of another. The supplement route is not a quick fix. IT takes time for your body to build back it's depleated state and benefit from the supplements. Some like Dr. Mercola do not believe in supplements, personally, if your body needs them, your body needs them...

Also, how much Omega 3s were you taking? It takes more than the recommended dose to have benefits when you are deficient. And more than 1 month I'm afraid.

Are you pregnant?

And the swallowing pills is a clear sign to me that your thyroid is enlarged and it has enlarged into your throat and not outward. I have read that a doc will not feel an enlarged thyroid at times b/c it has not grown to the place they are feeling. I feel like something is in my throat all the time and it's not getting better, it's getting worse.


----------



## transformed

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Electra375* 

And the swallowing pills is a clear sign to me that your thyroid is enlarged and it has enlarged into your throat and not outward. I have read that a doc will not feel an enlarged thyroid at times b/c it has not grown to the place they are feeling. I feel like something is in my throat all the time and it's not getting better, it's getting worse.









OMG! Symptoms that no one even bothers to ASK about!

I have thought this is weird, because when I started taking pills by swallowing them (I dont remember when-when do kids usually do this? age 8 or so?) I was a PRO-I could swallow 5 of them at the same time,









Its only recently that I am choking and gagging on them. WOW.

I am pregnant. My dose was....

2000mg fish oil concentrate
1000mg epa
150 mg dha


----------



## Electra375

The other symptoms that no one tells you and it is a big one --

Hypothryoidism can cause malabsorption of the nutrients you do take in. It is a vicious cycle.

I know I suffered with this during my last pregnancy. And it messed everything up. My prolactin levels were so low I had trouble producing enough bm and now he is weaned at 8 mo old and he was FTT at 4 mo old. My GYN told me for whatever reason this time I would just not have the milk -- I read that hypothryoid can affect milk supply. He consulted w a reproductive endo on my behalf and they were both very sorry.

I encourage you to get it under control now to avoid the pain of a terrible bfing problem.

When I was pregnant I read The Diet Cure by Julia Ross. I did take her supplement program in the book and carefully researched it all to decide if I felt comfortable during pregnancy to take them. It took 45 days to start to feel better. I also knew I would probably benefit from medication for my thryoid, but hbing w non-licensed mw makes that difficult.

So, now I'm on meds. I'm not 100% and I've gone back to Julia Ross's routine, plus I'm working through Mary Shomon's The Thyroid Diet. My concentrations levels are not so good. I have to get that up so I can "get" what it is that I'm reading.

At first reading all this thyroid stuff was daunting, well, it still is at times. I have had to educate myself about my ds2's Celiac Disease and that was easy compared to this.

It seems to me that the imbalance of the thyroid throws everything else out of balance. But I'm not sure the thyroid is the gatekeeper, so to speak. IT's hard to hit the entire endocrine system at once, yet that seems to be the way to do it.

I'm iffy about my adrenals being affected and now add to it all higher than my own personal normal fasting blood sugars -- OIY...


----------



## transformed

Have you ever tried alfalfa? My DO told me it helps with absorption. I take it for...well I guess for that reasosn. Plus it makes me not get all swollen because I dont drink enough water.







:


----------



## Electra375

The HFS herbalist told me to take chollorfil -- can't bring myself to drink it, it's green...


----------



## sanguine_speed

:

I've read some of this thread.

My brief story: I HAVE HUGE MILK SUPPLY ISSUES. I do everything...supplements (blessed thistle, fenugreek, mother's milk tea, brewer's yeast---altogether almost 40 pills a day), pump after feeding, pumping extra times during the night as baby sleeps 6-7 hours (so i pump in between), tried a SNS, Domperidone (now up to 120mg a day). Someone finally said "have you checked your thyroid?"

It had never occurred to me before. In fact, it was Dr. Jack Newman whom I had emailed and gotten the question from.

Then I started reading about hypothyroidism. And it's me.

I had a blood draw yesterday for the tests.

Did anyone ever hope that it WAS their thyroid? I WANT to be sick. Probably because I need an answer so I can get onto recovery. And while low breastmilk supply is what I have been battling first, I do have many other symptoms of hypothyroidism. I never imagined I could get rid of those too--I have the "it's just because I have a newborn and other kids to take care of" way of disregarding symptoms.

I'm glad someone decided to make this one big thread. Thanks mamas!


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## transformed

I hope its my thyroid! Or else its bi-polar or personality disorder!









But then again, I dont know if it will be any easier to treat my thyroid than it is to treat those things.

I never had any issue with milk supply. I wonder why? I guess everyone doesnt have ALL the symptoms.

Hey, I am trying to fix my diet, and while I dont know what a "thyroid diet" is, I know whats healthy and not. I try so hard to eat protein in the morning for breakfast but I rarely do because this happens every single time, no matter what kind of protein= I ate eggs with cheese and broccoli this morning....I feel so sick I cant even tell u. It often gives me headaches to eat protein in the AM and also makes me sooooooo sick for the whole first half of the day.

Does anyone else have protein issues?


----------



## transformed

I am in a terrible rage today. I did everything "right" this morning-I got up, took a shower, did my hair, enjoyed a cup of coffee, ate protein and veggies for breakfast (which is unheard of for me!)

But I cannot stop feeling and expressing rage today.

Is there anything I can do? Its not even 10 AM and I have already yelled at my 2 year old and told my 4 year old to shut up!







:

I also kicked the cat (I was kind of loosing by balence because I am pregnant living in a trashed house with crap all over the floor to trip on, but I could have tried landing on some other crap in the floor instead of kicking her out of the way.)







:









It feels like its coming out of nowhere, and it IS!

I dont like days like this and I have no clue how to make it managable.








:


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## neveryoumindthere

The coffee perhaps? Sorry I'm not much help. I know if I drank coffee I'd be out of it.

For myself I'm keeping a journal of what I ate throughout the day and how I'm feeling. Sugar is a big trigger for me so far.


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## tanyalynn

I understand the rage/anger/impatience thing--I've been there, and some days I'm still there. It's frustrating, and a real downer, to feel like I'm not doing what I need to for my kids (almost 4yo and 18mos). I have to keep reminding myself (daily, often multiple times a day) that kids are resilient and I'm doing the best I can now, and I'm on the road to getting better, so this isn't forever. I struggle with getting bogged down emotionally with what I'm not doing for/with them. For me, I think the anger/rage/impatience is more an adrenal issue than thyroid, though they're so closely intertwined that I think it's hard to really fix one without the other. For me, I am on adrenal supplements and that has helped. I had to also accept, really accept, that this is going to take months, maybe even a couple of years, to really get better (since this part seems like the adrenal fatigue for me, I read about that and realized everyone says it takes a long, long time to get better). And I tried to adjust my expectations downward... gotta run, kids getting restless, we need to get out of the house. I'm sorry you're having a hard day, I've been there. Take care.


----------



## transformed

*My Plan for the Day!*

Besides having a hard mental or thyroid







day, I am also 7 months pregnant so as the day goes on, my body gets less likley to move.







It hurts by 2:00...to the point where I do very little moving after that, if at all possible.

Today, I am choosing to prepare everything for the day RIGHT now. I am trying to get through this day without yelling at the kids _or myself_ all day. If I know whats for dinner NOW, I won't be as prone to get mad about it later when my brain function and body strength has gone out the window. I am trying really hard to get a little bit of dishes and food prep done in case I just cant do it later.

It's all I can think of to do to help myself today. I am proud of myself for being able to come up with a plan today, instead of just letting it happen to me.

And Thank God we have enough food that isnt total junk to get us through the day.

Come to think of it, yesterday, I had pastry and coffee for breakfast, mcdonalds and soda for lunch, and a halfway decent dinner with all the food groups....and another soda. That could be why I am in this state today. I have healthier food to munch on today, hopefully I choose it! (Or I'll force myself to go to panera for a salmon salad and a turkey sandwich.







)


----------



## trinity6232000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
I hope its my thyroid! Or else its bi-polar or personality disorder!










I'm finally getting the blood test on Monday to see if I have any issues with my thyroid. If something
is wrong I'm going to feel so foolish. I've been blaming all my symptoms on bipolar, and being on
Effexor.

The symptoms are getting worse, and I keep trying this and that for the past 3 years with no results.
I'm almost begging for it to be a thyroid problem so then I can at least have a plan of attack instead
of this wondering what is wrong with me.


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## Electra375

Yeah, I hoped it was my thyroid -- otherwise I'm a fat, non-milk producing failure! I was eating a GFDF diet nursing and not loosing weight, it is a very low carb diet, what's left when you take out Gluten and Dairy? Veggies, fruits, meat... And I was not loosing weight!!! This is when I realized I needed someone to hear me and help me. It's the pits to eat GFDF from birth through 4mo old and loose NOTHING!!! And then again from 5 1/2 mo old to 8 mo old and again nothing.

My thyroid tests are weird. My TSH is normal, my T4 and T3 are low. The endo locally did not want to treat me. The gyn I started to see after the birth of my 4th decided my symptoms w the tests were certainly enough for treatment -- thus far though I need more than what I have been given.


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## transformed

is it normal to not have any weight issues ever? I never have. Then again, I am only 26. But 4 pregnancys!!!!!?????


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Electra375* 
Yeah, I hoped it was my thyroid -- otherwise I'm a fat, non-milk producing failure! I was eating a GFDF diet nursing and not loosing weight, it is a very low carb diet, what's left when you take out Gluten and Dairy? Veggies, fruits, meat... And I was not loosing weight!!! This is when I realized I needed someone to hear me and help me. It's the pits to eat GFDF from birth through 4mo old and loose NOTHING!!! And then again from 5 1/2 mo old to 8 mo old and again nothing.

My thyroid tests are weird. My TSH is normal, my T4 and T3 are low. The endo locally did not want to treat me. The gyn I started to see after the birth of my 4th decided my symptoms w the tests were certainly enough for treatment -- thus far though I need more than what I have been given.

That is why TSH is such a lousy barometer for treatment. They don't test your TSH when you feel good, so they have no idea what _normal_ TSH _is_ for you. It's an arbitrary number. Before Abbott Labs (the makers of Synthroid and the root of all Evil) invented the TSH test, doctors treated hypo by symptoms. Meaning, if you felt lousy, they upped your dose. If your hair was falling out and you were too tired to get out of bed, they upped your dose.

I don't understand why it's so difficult for the doctors to understand that an inferior test invented by a pharmaceutical company that has a vested interest in making _their product necessary is not good medicine._


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
is it normal to not have any weight issues ever? I never have. Then again, I am only 26. But 4 pregnancys!!!!!?????

I had no weight issues until I was 35 and went hypo


----------



## Paramarie

Major lurker, infrequent poster...

Just want to say thanks to everyone here. Have had a sneaking suspicion of thyroid problems for a long time, and kept coming back here after drs appt for more information.

Finally asked & convinced dr..."let's just check thyroid antibodies, just for fun"

won't get the lab values until appt next week, but a phone call from Dr. just confirmed: "looks like Hashimotos"

I feel a little more validated.

Thanks for everything.


----------



## bigeyes

Oprah's website has gotten so many comments that the comment function is temporarily not working.









I've read some, and while I'm glad to see so many blasting her for the poor job they did educating people about thyroid problems, I'm saddened by how many think it was such a terrific show.


----------



## transformed

Because it was listed as "The Thyroid show" there have been a few local news stations here whos "medical" segments were on thyroid etc.

I am still trying to figure out why everyone is calling it the thyroid show though.









If I had sneezed, I would have missed the word thyroid even beingg said in the show.


----------



## bigeyes

My thyroid group has been writing to Oprah for _*years* begging_ her to do a thyroid show. It was advertised emphasizing the thyroid angle.

The show was an absolute joke and many of us are pissed off. Most of us have been hindered by geographical, income and insurance restrictions in our search for good doctors, where Oprah has so much money, she has researchers working for her, she's got _limitless resources_, yet she fell for the whole _be nice to yourself, soy is good for you, doctor knows best_ bill of goods hook, line, and sinker.

If you don't get angry about it, you'll be as defeated as she looked on that show.


----------



## ~*Trish*~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Electra375* 
An ah ha moment...
Cravings are signals to me that I need something I'm not getting nutritionally.

Infrequent poster here...

Thanks Electra, I hadn't thought of this before. It's definitely something to be mindful of.

I just wanted to share that Monday's TSH draw came back at 3.26 -- only a little higher than my old staus quo of 2.5. I'm feeling nearly normal at the moment, but am still going to confer with the GP doc on Thursday. I KNOW that I can get back to normal!


----------



## ~*Trish*~

Also, I am happy to report that I convinced my mom (also Hashi's) to be reevaluated for treatment! She went off all treatment about two years ago, and has had trouble with symptoms ever since.


----------



## transformed

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
Most of us have been hindered by geographical, income and insurance restrictions in our search for good doctors, where Oprah has so much money, she has researchers working for her, she's got _limitless resources_,
.

My mom mentioned this to me....its so hard when you dont have resources.


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## guest^

bigeyes-ITA!!!! Oprah was horrible!!!!!!!! And Christine Northrup-























If I had all of the $$$ Oprah has, I would get to an expert that lives far away from me-and it would *not* be C.N.!!

As I have lost all respect for Oprah in the past-this was the worst!!! I am convinced she has no brains.None.At. All.

Okay! Thanks for letting me rant!
















mp


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
My mom mentioned this to me....its so hard when you dont have resources.

Yes, it is. And yet, with everything she has, she's just blindly trusting the people who aren't helping her. I am still reeling from the difference in her face!

The women in the thyroid group have photos posted with the obvious facial changes _before and after hypo,_ and then _before and after proper treatment._ The transformation is easy to see, especially around the eyes, and the heaviness or 'thickness' of the face.

Oprah's face on that show was so changed from her appearance in fairly recent magazine photos it is incredible. But she's convinced _she's_ _better, because some doctor *told her so.







:

*

_


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## destinybound

I just wanted to say thank you. Once again the answers I needed are right here at MDC. I have hypo and am beginning to feel symptoms again. After looking at the web site you directed me to (stop the madness) I am now so much more educated and ready to go in to DR and tell him what I need!

THANK YOU!!!!


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## kdabbler

Joining in.

I went in to see my dr regarding getting a note for Weight Watchers of all things when I casually remarked how I feel like an old lady at the ripe old age of 38. I run for exercise and despite the fact that I've been gradually working myself back into shape, I'm still way off my old pace pre-baby. And I even way 15 to 20 lbs less than when I ran marathons!

So she sent me for blood work. Now I got one of those ominous letters saying that she wants me to get them done again in 2 to 8 weeks because of an indicator that I might have an overactive thyroid.

I absolutely hate the thought of taking medication for something chronic. I caved and took beta blockers while pg because I honestly felt as though I wasn't going to survive labor. (I'm overstating it but the palpitations I had made me think my heart was going to burst.)

I took a quick look at http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/
but I don't think it pertains to my possible condition.

Can anyone point me to a primer for hyperactive thyroid? What are my nutritional and alternative medicine options?

Sorry if this has been asked I've read about 5 of the ??? pages to this thread and haven't found an answer.


----------



## bigeyes

Well, I can tell you _this._ Endos freak out at the hint of a person being hyper, but they don't mind a bit if you suffer from the effects of being hypo. Given the choice, I'd rather be a little hyper than a little hypo, but they don't like giving the _patient_ a choice. Google hyperthyroidism for information, and google hyperthyroidism symptoms.

There are dangers associated with both conditions, but the problem is, when you are hyper they often want to kill off your thyroid, and then you end up hypo for the rest of your life. Go to mary shoman's site and read up about it, and look up Grave's disease, and hashimoto's. Sometimes you end up hypo after your thyroid attacks itself, so it's important that you get tested for antibodies. If they know your body is attacking your thyroid the treatment is different. Don't settle for a doctor who ignores your questions or treats you like you don't have a say in what kind of treatment you'll accept.


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## Electra375

My reading tells me that most Hypers become Hypo after treatment, so the info is generally a good read for Hypers. Great huh???

I suppose the No 1 advice I read about Hypers is not to do RAI (Radio Active Iodine), it KILLs the thyroid and then you are on meds for life.

Sorry I can't be of much more help. Those palpatations during pregnancy were not High Blood Pressure, they were Hyper Thyroid symptoms!!!


----------



## WannabeaFarmer

I agree. I was diagnosed with Graves two years ago and now I am signifigantly Hypo. I was so hyper that my body was rejecting pregnacies from my body in the beginning of my second trimester.
So my thyroid did wind up attacking itself and almost destroying me so to say. I was at a point where I couldnt swallow cause it was so swollen. I had terrible heart palpitations-Felt like my heart was gonna burst out of my chest....totally know that feeling. Endo started me on VERY low dose PTU's during my pregnacy with DD and it helped get me better.
I now am on the verge of my body shutting down cause all the docs before him(during my pregnacy)were so scared of treating me, not knowing how to deal that my body was left alone to deal with it till I started to deconstruct.
So I am currently trying to jumpstart my thyroid cause it literally has become a severe auto immune disease and my body stopped working properly....Although i think this endo is a bit tooo umm weak? I dunno if thats the right word. She is treating me to softly for fear I might break so to say. She doesnt wanna dose me to heavily with drugs till I am done having kids.
So thats my babbling today....


----------



## jenrose

Couple things...

1. Armour under the tongue... OMG does it work better, and *blech*. My eyebrows are starting to grow back.
2. Taking T4 alone nearly killed me. They upped my dose when I told them I wasn't feeling better and I pretty much did not get out of bed for 3 weeks before I managed to muster the energy to fire them and go to a naturopath. Who managed to not help by insisting my *clinical* hypothyroid could be treated best by the Wilson's Temperature Syndrome protocol. Feh. Fired her too after *that* left me drained and she kept being insanely vague.
3. Supplements I take, and when and how I take them:

Mornings: I swallow Vitex and Black Cohosh, Alpha Lipoic acid, Chromium Pic, high bioflavenoid time-release C, B-vitamin complex (B-50 complex, sometimes I also do under-the-tongue B-12/b-6 and folic acid) and DIM (Diindolylmethane). Then I pop my 145 mg of Armour under my tongue and try to ignore it for the next half hour or so.

Evenings: 2 grams of high DHA/EPA fish oil, 150 mg of CoQ10, Alpha lipoic acid, 2 tablets of spirulina, 1 DIM-Plus complex capsule (the morning stuff is a different brand), digestive enzyme supplement, 500 mg magnesium, Quercitin, Selenium and probalby a couple more I'm forgetting offhand.

Sometimes I add to that Chlorophyll (makes my farts not stink...lol), garlic, echinacea or other herbs if I have something that needs treating.

It seems like a lot, until I remember that most people take a multivitamin that has more "stuff" in it than I'm taking... I can't do multis, they all have things I don't tolerate well in them. Too many food allergies to do whole-food supplements. If i didn't have the allergies, I would not need half my supplements.

I'm thinking about doing the Anti-estrogenic diet. It fits how I prefer to eat, but I'm a bit daunted.

My reaction to getting the thyroid diagnosis was, "It's about danged time you guys noticed, I've been seeing symptoms for 7 years."

I gained 40+ pounds between 1994 and 2000. My hair was thinning, and I was having chronic low energy. My skin was dry, etc etc. But my "number" at that point was 2.15 (TSH) so it "wasn't my thryoid."

2006? In June my numbers were in the 6.7 range. They started treating me and tested me again a few *days* later and it was up in the 8.2 range. (long story about why the tests were so close together.) But I kept getting worse and worse and worse on T4, and no one would listen. I told them from day one, "Give me armour."

And now I'm on armour, and finally told my naturopath to quit testing my blood and start looking at my symptoms and let me titrate up my own dose and whaddyaknow? My eyebrows are growing back. Funny, that.

I'm annoyed because my current allopathic doc said, "They didn't test for Hashimotos when you were first diagnosed because all hypothyroid is Hashimotos."

Thanks for filling me with confidence in your understanding of the subject when you are supposedly an authority on my health.... NOT.

I just read the "Stop the Thryoid Madness" site.

Now I am going to have to restrain myself from killing my first nat for not explaining *why* I reacted so badly to adrenal treatment.


----------



## bigeyes

I'm curious about an anti-estrogenic diet. I can't take black cohosh or DHEA like many of the women in my group do, because they are either phytoestrogens or precursors to estrogen, and they make migraines go nuts.

The whole thing is frustrating, huh? I love the line about Hashi's, _as if.

_ It's terrible that we have to work so hard at finding decent doctors when we are in such bad shape, but you never hear about this stuff until you're already sick.







:


----------



## Pilgrim

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Electra375* 
My reading tells me that most Hypers become
Sorry I can't be of much more help. Those palpatations during pregnancy were not High Blood Pressure, they were Hyper Thyroid symptoms!!!

Yes, it's true that the palpatations during pregnancy could be caused by hyper thyroid, but it's also true that they can be caused by anemia.

I have been having my thyroid and my ferratin levels very closely monitored throughout this pregnancy. My TSH has gone slightly out of range in both directions, but my Free T3 & Free T4 have looked okay the whole time, so my ND is not treating my thyroid.

However, after we chased down my thyorid earlier in the pregnancy, we started to check my ferratin, which is super low. These anemia symptoms can mimic thyroid symptoms, which is why I suppose the STTM site recommends ferratin checks. My symptoms: exhaustion, hair loss, crankiness, general ick feeling, rapid heart beat - esp. after meals. It's hard to separate out what's thyroid, anemia, or just being pregnant!

The iron supplements have made me feel much better, and took care of all of those symptoms, whereas the earlier thyroid treatment that I did for 3 weeks did not help me at all. That has also been helpful to help separate out what's causing my symptoms. Though, because I do have the antibodies and have had a few TSH swings, I'm sure I've got to continue to keep a close eye on my thyroid throughout the pregnancy and after.

Also, though I'm feeling better, my ferratin levels keep going down, not up! EEK! I'm doing lots of different types of iron supplements, and now am having iron shots. But this does indicate to me that I more than likely have some auto-immune thing going on that's not letting me absorb iron, and I'm sure it's somehow linked with my thyroid. Gotta do more research for sure!


----------



## ShannonCC




----------



## Electra375

OH -- Heart beating issues can also be a deficiency in Magesium.
forgot until someone mentioned anemia...


----------



## Electra375

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pilgrim* 
Also, though I'm feeling better, my ferratin levels keep going down, not up! EEK! I'm doing lots of different types of iron supplements, and now am having iron shots. But this does indicate to me that I more than likely have some auto-immune thing going on that's not letting me absorb iron, and I'm sure it's somehow linked with my thyroid. Gotta do more research for sure!

My iron went way down during my last pregnancy, it along with my thyroid test results pointed to the thyroid dysfunction.

I was told chlorfil (sp) helps with absorption. As I stated I haven't found myself able to swallow it. I've been told FlorDix is better absorbed, it's a tough swallow. I also could not take it after I bought it b/c it has gluten in it (the regular formula) -- it didn't occur to me to check $20 down the drain literally!!!

I do feel better taking iron, but it could be a combo of taking some other supplements too.


----------



## sanguine_speed

My thyroid tests came back fine. the free T3 and T4, and TSH. And ferritin and hemoglobin and B12.

Sigh.


----------



## Electra375

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sanguine_speed* 
My thyroid tests came back fine. the free T3 and T4, and TSH. And ferritin and hemoglobin and B12.

Sigh.

How about adrenal fatigue?


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Electra375* 
How about adrenal fatigue?

That is what I was thinking. Also, did you run your numbers past some of the folks in a thyroid group, or did you just take the doctor's word for it that you're fine?


----------



## transformed

Off to my doctors appt to see if my tests show anything.









I am armed with the list of symptoms from stopthethyroidmaddness.com too. (The doc I found is listed in that site so I hope its a good situation!)

Jenny







:


----------



## Electra375

You need to learn to be your own lab tech!







well it isn't really funny...

My T4 levels are .1 within range, so "normal". But I'm not well. Symptoms over ride numbers. And fortunately my GYN is one who sees symptoms. Now the only bad part is he isn't experienced enough to help me get to the right level for me. And only Synthroid was prescribed.

I've got something else on order, it should be here soon. Self dx and self medicate -- love the internet.


----------



## Electra375

Add to my fatigue today -- my period started. I haven't had one for a while, the last one I had lasted too many days to count on and off again 8 and 9 day stretches. I went to my GYN about it - no real answers, "hormones".
This one has the lower backache, cramps the works... UGH...


----------



## KimPM

kdabbler - As part of everything else you are doing, I would also suggest you get a copy of your lab test results and then check them out for yourself. Look up anything you don't know. This way you can see exactly what she meant by you having "an indicator that I might have an overactive thyroid". I always keep a running spreadsheet of ALL my lab results over time, including the thyroid test results.


----------



## MujerMamaMismo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sanguine_speed* 
My thyroid tests came back fine. the free T3 and T4, and TSH. And ferritin and hemoglobin and B12.

Sigh.

I'd be interested in seeing your numbers - different doctors interpret tests very differently.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
Off to my doctors appt to see if my tests show anything.









I am armed with the list of symptoms from stopthethyroidmaddness.com too. (The doc I found is listed in that site so I hope its a good situation!)

Jenny







:

How'd you go?


----------



## linguistmama

Thank you ladies for this thread! I finally got through it all and it is so helpful.

I'm pregnant and have hyperemesis for the second time. As part of trying to find out why I had my midwife check my thyroid. She said my T3 was low so I emailed her to get a complete copy of the lab results to make sure all the right tests were done. Years ago a doctor "checked" my thyroid as a possible cause of depression, but I'm pretty sure he only did TSH.

On Monday I go to the docs office to get the rest of the recommended testing. Over the phone they sounded fine with it so we'll see how it goes. I already had my progesterone checked there and it was in the low range of normal at 19. They suggested progesterone cream which did help, I was able to get off anti nausea medication for a week which is a miracle. But it only lasted a short time so I hope more testing will help put it all together. I'm pretty sure my thyroid was low before I got pregnant. We were charting and my BBTs were in the 96 range.

If the doctor's office won't do all of the tests I have another doctor to try or my midwife can order most if not all of the labs. But I have to pay out of pocket for her.

Off to read more at the STTM site and forums.


----------



## sparkprincess

I've been having a hard time finding the new "healthy range".

I got bloodwork done a few weeks ago and was SURE I was going to show up as hypo. Here are my numbers: TSH is 0.98, FreeT3 is 133, FreeT4 is 1.0. Does that all sound right?

Thanks for your help ladies!


----------



## NocturnalDaze

Jenn,
Do you have the lab ranges? They can be different for different labs....


----------



## bigeyes

It's important to know if they measured your free T3 and free T4, or just T3 and T4. Frees let you know how well your hormones are being used up by your body. Just T3 and T4 don't really tell you anything, iirc.


----------



## NocturnalDaze

Quote:


Originally Posted by *linguistmama* 
I'm pregnant and have hyperemesis for the second time. As part of trying to find out why I had my midwife check my thyroid.

Hyperemesis is very often caused by poor adrenal function....


----------



## linguistmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NocturnalDaze* 
Hyperemesis is very often caused by poor adrenal function....

Does anyone have advice or references on starting something like hydrocortisone while pregnant? Normally I would think no way, but I'm currently taking phenergan which is a class C for nausea and vomiting. So I would like to at least do some online research about hydrocortisone.


----------



## Barcino

I have been hypo for a while - I am currently 8 weeks almost 9 weeks pregnant and this week I went in to the midwife (at a OBGYN's Practice) to check to make sure my meds did not need adjusting.
WELL HOLY COW! My TSH is now .01!!!!







: Totally on the other end. Three months ago it was a nice and normal 1.07. Go figure. I have been feelling good other than in the last few days I have had heart palpitations and really dry skin with flaking. I am thinking it might be related.

Anyway my freeT4 was more in the normal range according to her (did not get the exact number) but I am calling tomorrow to see if I can come in to check on the baby and get a referall to an endo. They want me to stop my synthroid all together at the OBGYN's office and I am not sure if that is right as I know sometimes the TSH can get crazy low during early pregnancy.
Also this is random but I am thinking I could possibly be pregnant with twins - my son has been saying that I am going to have two babies non stop and now the crazy TSH has me wondering.

Anyway I rambled but I was wondering if any of you have been in this situation and have any advice.


----------



## sparkprincess

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NocturnalDaze* 
Jenn,
Do you have the lab ranges? They can be different for different labs....

No I don't. How would I go about getting that? I'm very curious now!

Also, the numbers I posted were my free T3 and free T4 - I went back and edited that. Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sparkprincess* 
No I don't. How would I go about getting that? I'm very curious now!

Also, the numbers I posted were my free T3 and free T4 - I went back and edited that. Sorry for the confusion.

http://thyroid.about.com/cs/testsfor...a/labs2003.htm
the ladies at naturalthyroidhormones on yahoo can help you decipher your test results.


----------



## MamaTessa

Quote:


Originally Posted by *linguistmama* 
I'm pregnant and have hyperemesis for the second time. As part of trying to find out why I had my midwife check my thyroid. She said my T3 was low so I emailed her to get a complete copy of the lab results to make sure all the right tests were done. Years ago a doctor "checked" my thyroid as a possible cause of depression, but I'm pretty sure he only did TSH.

On Monday I go to the docs office to get the rest of the recommended testing. Over the phone they sounded fine with it so we'll see how it goes. I already had my progesterone checked there and it was in the low range of normal at 19. They suggested progesterone cream which did help, I was able to get off anti nausea medication for a week which is a miracle. But it only lasted a short time so I hope more testing will help put it all together. I'm pretty sure my thyroid was low before I got pregnant. We were charting and my BBTs were in the 96 range.

If the doctor's office won't do all of the tests I have another doctor to try or my midwife can order most if not all of the labs. But I have to pay out of pocket for her.

Off to read more at the STTM site and forums.

I would guess that it is actually your adrenals that are causing the hyperemesis. I had it with the last three pregnancies, before I knew that I had adrenal fatigue and hypothyroidism. I would see if you can get a saliva adrenal test ordered, if not then I would use canary club and get them tested yourself.

I am trying to get PG right now, and I am REALLY hoping that treating the adrenals will make for a hyperemesis-free pregnancy.

Here is a quote from http://www.healthchemist.co.nz/healt...ookie%5Ftest=1
"In a preliminary study done in the 1930s, eight women suffering from nausea and vomiting during the first trimester (13 weeks) of pregnancy received large amounts of oral adrenal cortex extract. In most cases, vomiting stopped after three to four days.6 In a follow-up study, women with nausea and vomiting of pregnancy received adrenal cortex extract, usually by injection at first, followed by oral administration. More than 85% of the women were completely relieved of the problem or showed definite improvement.7 Since no safety data exist for use during pregnancy, adrenal extract should not be used in these situations unless supervised by a doctor."

And here is a link to a more current study: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...37/ai_93531963

You might even want to take the second article to your midwife or doctor to see if they will treat you with hydrocortisone or another steroid. I know how wonderful it would be during pregnancy to not be sick!


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## Barcino

I got my full results from my tests

I am 8 weeks almost 9 weeks pregnant.

My TSH was 0.01 pregnant ranges are 0.20-4.70
My T4 Free was 1.5 range is 0.8-1.8

So my TSH is extremely low and my Free T4 is normal.

Has anybody gone through this...?

I am seeing an endo on Tue. My OBGYN and midwife said stop the synthroid for a month and we will retest then. BUT Hello? My Free t4 is normal won't I go hypo? I did not take my syntrhoid today I take 50mcg daily but I am going back on it tomorrow until I go to the endo. I think the obgyn does not have a clue. I will be sure to ask for a free t3 in case that is elevated and I want them to check my antibodies for both hashi and graves.

All in all







: and







:


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## tanyalynn

kdabbler-there's a fair amount of info on hyperthyroidism on ithyroid.com. Not so much about lab results, but minerals and nutrition/supplement related treatments (hypothyroid, too, as a flip side of the same coin). Good luck!


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## transformed

my thyroid test:

TSH: 1.38
Free T4: 1.1
Free T3: 3.83
Reverse T3: 29.5
Anti TG: <32
Anti TPO: <14


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## Electra375

With results that skewed, I might request a re-test. If blood sits around sometimes it will alter the results of some tests.

My numbers are the other way, Normal TSH and low free t4 and t3. My TSH would never be indicative of hypo status.


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## transformed

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Electra375* 
With results that skewed, I might request a re-test. If blood sits around sometimes it will alter the results of some tests.

My numbers are the other way, Normal TSH and low free t4 and t3. My TSH would never be indicative of hypo status.

You mean mine?


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## Electra375

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
You mean mine?

No Barcino... I think we posted at the same time, your post was not even up when I posted about those results. Cybertime...


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## bigeyes

Transformed, I'm impressed that so early in this journey you got someone to test you. I can't tell you how many times I've asked for my frees and Reverse T3 only to have them test TSH and 'forget' the frees.

I suck at interpreting tests, I always ask the women in the group when I get results, so I'll defer to them on this one. I just wanted to tell you you're doing great at getting your doc to cooperate. That's half the battle.


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## transformed

I made him do it.









I took a list and went in with the attitude "I am paying this guy to be my doctor, he has to do whatever I tell him to."


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## transformed

I made him do it.









I took a list and went in with the attitude "I am paying this guy to be my doctor, he has to do whatever I tell him to."










PS-He was also on the thyroid madness site so that may have been why too.

He told me to stop eating so many carbs and I would stop being "bi-polar"


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## Electra375

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
.

He told me to stop eating so many carbs and I would stop being "bi-polar"









Actually that is good advice. Several Thyroid type books talk about the swing in mood from carbs. It isn't just the bad carb good carb thing either, all carbs create sugar highs and lows and those affect your moods. The key is to level your sugar levels consistently thoroughout the day and night. Chromium is suppose to help with this, there are other supplements too that supposedly help with this. Eating protein with every carb helps as well. If you like donuts have 1 with some meat... Eat the meat first.


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## transformed

I know this too. The thing is, I eat normal healthy foods, but when I am craving sweets or sugar or carbs, I'll try and curb it by eating something healthy instead but after I am done eating I am still not satisfied unless I go for the unhealthy sugar thing ALSO.

I cant figure out how to stop. The cravings are seriously more intense than a smokers cravings for ciggerettes. I used to be baffled when I was a smoker too, that my sugar craving was more intense than sugar.


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## Electra375

L-glutamine - curbs cravings.

Read The Diet Cure by Julia Ross


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## goodygumdrops

Hey mamas,

Ok so I've been lurking for a few days...this thread is HUGE.
So, a couple of weeks ago I was feeling really moody swingy and I was concerned that I might be developing ppd. I started seeing a counseler. Well, I was reading some threads on ppd and was recommended to check thyroid. Last Wednesday I visited the dr, asking for my throid test and iron levels. Well......I am hypothyroid.

My labs are
HSH 7.5 in a range of .3 - 5.5
Free Thyroxine .79 in a range of .9 - 1.8

So, my dr precribed .05mg oral Levothroid. She wants me to come in in 8 weeks and retest.

So, I'm wondering what other supplements would be helpful for a breastfeeding mama. I am also wondering if it's worth it for me to ask my precription to be switched to Amour Thyroid. It seems that everyone seems to do better with this medication? Finally, is it recommended to see an endocrinologist at this stage?

TIA


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## thefragile7393

*subbing here
I've been dx'ed with borderline hypothyroid by my nature doc and he has given me Armour plus taking a drop of iodine and two drops of selenium once a day in some water. And acupuncture to help the liver metabolize it all.

I honestly like the Armour...it's cheap, it's natural, (though not acceptable if you are vegan). It seems to help a lot.


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## linguistmama

I need some advice for dealing with an allopathic doctor. I saw a PA yesterday and she refused to do most of the testing I asked for, even though her office does offer all but the saliva test for adrenals. If neccessary I'll order the rest of the testing myself, but I'd like to get the insurance to cover as much as possible. I called the endo in town and his office said that they wouldn't test my thyroid, that a pcp would need to do that. I also called several chiro offices and they sound wonderful, but only do muscle testing instead of blood tests. I really want to get the blood/saliva tests.

On Monday I have an appointment with an osteopath that I have seen before and who was very nice at that time. I'm looking for help getting my "ammo" ready. Here are my talking points so far:

I have hyperemesis again and am taking a class C medication to avoid extended hospital stays. Therefore I would like to have these tests done to look for the root cause.

I have signs of low thyroid: lots of brain fog, trouble sleeping, low temperature since before getting pregnant, low T3 level, but need the rest of the thyroid testing.

Adrenal fatigue has been shown to sometimes be connected to hyperemesis so I especially want to test for this. (I'll bring some info about the saliva test, using dessicated adrenal, and point out that sometimes hyperemesis is successfully treated with corticosteroids).

I want a vitamin and mineral test, partly to look for thyroid/adrenal related defficiencies, and partly because I likely have defficiencies due to the hyperemesis.

Any suggestions? I'll see an ND if neccessary, I just would like a western doc to sign for testing since insurance would cover it then.
TIA!


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## Electra375

IF you don't have luck with a reg doc, applied kinesiology is that muscle testing, and there is something to it.

I already had my blood tests and I went to see a compounding pharmacist about my ds's medication which I didn't want him on in the first place. The pharmacist was out and this chiropractor from next door was in. He asked me to come over to see him, so I did.

He did the AP muscle testing and said your thyroid is problematic, your hormones as in female system hormones, and nothing else. All of this was true to medical blood labs, yet he didn't know that, he had never seen me before and he didn't ask, he simply started the muscle testing.

His answer to my ds3's reflux medication was to give me supplements which would go to my bm in theory and although he never had before, told me to give the baby some of 2 of the supplements. I did and the reflux went away in 36 hours, magic... It has not returned, but I do keep giving the supplement every other day or so now.

Now, my thryoid was not cured so quickly, but I would not expect it to be. It is a work in progress between this chiropractor and his nutrition guidance with my GYN's medications. However the point of my story -- I would never have done AP if I hadn't been brought in off the street (the office secretary refers to me as the client off the street, it's funny). I thought AP was hoaky, before this experience I that Quack Watch was probably right. I do not think this any more.

He did tell me my pituitary was not involved, I was unable to get a blood test for it and it concerned me. He also did tell me my pancreas was not involved as this also concerned me after reading about the insulin connection to thyroid and adreanals. My adreanals and other endocrin areas were also not affected. I didn't ask for these answers, it was part of his exam. He could not tell me specifics about free t4 and free t3 levels obviously, but he did nail it that my thyroid was under distress and not working properly for me.

A chiropractor isn't going to be able to prescribe medications for you. If your thyroid is only mildly sluggish then I think a nutrition approach can restore function without medication. My reading is Julia Ross for this information. Good nutrition and supplementation with vital and likely deficient minerals and vitamins along with some herbs and even things like bovine spleen, might work for some people. (Standard Process supplements from the chiro I saw have some very strange things in them like bovine spleen, bovine pancreas, etc I'm not 100% sure on the supposed effect of these things, I'm still researching).


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## Electra375

My Cytomel is in... I have to go to the PostOffice to pick it up. Our mail in prescription company needs signature confirmation and I was picking the littles up yesterday when the mail came by. So now I have to drag 4 children into the PO to pick the package up... UGH.

I opted for this verses Armour only b/c I have many days worth of Synthroid and I'd rather not throw it away and send $$ down the drain -- if the two together work.

I should know in about 2 or 3 days if the addition of T3 is a good or bad thing for me. I'm hoping good and not bad, I don't need to feel worse KWIM...


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## KimPM

One of the problems I have with Armour thyroid is that it has only one ratio of T3 to T4. If you need more or less T3, then you are out of luck. The other thing is the half-life of T3 in the body is very short - anywhere from 3/4 day to 1-2 days, but it's time to action is much shorter than that.. probably a couple of hours. (The half-life of T4 in the body is 6-7 days, and it's time to action is longer as it requires bodily action to lose an iodine ion to convert to T3.) Because of the fast action of T3, it may be wise to take T3 in divided dose(s) during the day, rather than just once. However, it's really only necessary to take T4 once during the day - though I suppose you could take it in divided dose(s) if you wanted to.
Aside from those technical issues, there are also the usual religious, hygiene, or humane reasons why someone would not want to take anything derived from a pig.


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## Electra375

Well pig does not bother me...
Anyway, I cut the pills in half, took half this afternoon and felt nothing. In fact I almost fell asleep trying to get dinner on the table.
I'll try again tomorrow and probably won't up the dose on myself until Monday. I came across a woman I know who had a very bad reaction to T3 and her adreanals were exhausted. I do not believe my adreanals are affected, but in the off chance the chiropractor was wrong (I could only get a medical test for cortisol levels in my urine), I'm taking it easy.
So in the AM i'll take my regular Synthroid which is probably too low of a dose and I'll take 1/2 of the Cytomel dose.

I understand that T3 is easily absorbed by the intestinal track and T4 is not, is it advisable to use Synthroid sublingual? I do know ppl do that with Armour.


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## goodygumdrops

Well,

I spoke with my dr about the diffrences of one or the other.... She says that it's easier to regulate the amount of thyroid hormone in synthetically manufactured drugs. She also was concerned about injesting glandular tissue from an animal, in the wake of BSE in cows. She is from the UK, so I guess she's more sensitive to this issue.
I've decided to stick with the synthetic thryroid meds and if I feel the need to change later then I'll look for another dr.


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## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gavin'smom* 
Well,

I spoke with my dr about the diffrences of one or the other.... She says that it's easier to regulate the amount of thyroid hormone in synthetically manufactured drugs. She also was concerned about injesting glandular tissue from an animal, in the wake of BSE in cows. She is from the UK, so I guess she's more sensitive to this issue.
I've decided to stick with the synthetic thryroid meds and if I feel the need to change later then I'll look for another dr.

FWIW, that is standard garbage docs hand out when you ask for natural thyroid hormones. In fact, synthetics have been recalled more often for various problems, which is the _exact opposite_ of what most endos tell patients.

If you want synthetics because you are a vegetarian, that's fine. But it isn't natural, and the 'regulation' reason isn't really valid.


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## thefragile7393

Quote:

She also was concerned about injesting glandular tissue from an animal, in the wake of BSE in cows.
Armour, for example, is from pig, not cow. Synthetic is also more expensive, and not really all that easy to regulate in some people, watching my MIL go through this and finally finally getting her doc to switch her to Armour. Armour I can get without insurance for 12 US dollars. If you wish to avoid because you are vegan or vegetarian or have other religious or ethic concerns, sure, understandable, but honestly I think too your doc is feeding you some BS.


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## goodygumdrops

Thanks for the advice.
Do you think Armour is better than the synthetic versions?

TIA


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## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gavin'smom* 
Thanks for the advice.
Do you think Armour is better than the synthetic versions?

TIA

*YES!
*









read the personal accounts at stop the thyroid madness or the yahoo group naturalthyroidhormones.

Most of us who made the switch noticed a difference immediately. It's shameful the way they push the synthetic when the natural works so much better.


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## thefragile7393

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
*YES!
* It's shameful the way they push the synthetic when the natural works so much better.

Not only that, but it's cheaper, so you'd think that more docs would be interested in it!


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## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thefragile7393* 
Not only that, but it's cheaper, so you'd think that more docs would be interested in it!

Ah, but you have to _follow the money._ The people who make synthetics wine and dine doctors to get them to prescribe their product. They _spend_ a lot of money to _make money.

_ A friend clued me in to the way they keep track of this stuff. The pharmacy rep visits the doctor with free samples, maybe takes them to dinner, and sometimes the company even hosts seminars in vacation spots so the doctor can write off a trip to, say, _Hawaii_ as a _business trip._ When that doctor writes a prescription, he puts a number on the prescription pad (or the pad itself is numbered) that lets the company know which doctor and which rep are responsible for that drug being sold. That's how they know who is selling big and who is pushing their products onto patients. (ETA-my friend tells me she thinks they have made the trips a thing of the past, but for many years that was another benefit the doctors had for pushing certain drugs.)

And then you have the pharmaceutical companies' money going to medical schools and grants. It's a big incentive for doctors to prescribe drugs made by the companies that help them out financially. It ought to be illegal.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...medid=17455991
http://medicine.plosjournals.org/per...c05a7adce7bcda
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...medid=17356984
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...800896_pf.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/internatio...201991,00.html

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Moms here can see through the way big business tries to push vaccinations on us, and how they try to market so many things that we just don't need. Why isn't it obvious that big pharma, in partnership with the FDA, is also in the business of selling us products we don't need at an inflated price?


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## captain crunchy

Wow, a lot of information to digest and I really appreciate this thread.

I believe I have hypOthyroidism -- it took me a couple of years of everyone thinking I was crazy and two doctors to tell me I wasn't (without testing) because I wasn't hyper and sweating and slim --- they thought I was telling them I suspected hyPERthyroidism (I wasn't, I clearly said hypO, underactive)

Anyway, I was on synthroid for a while but then they only did check my tsh --- of course now I know that is not at all accurate (even before this thread, but this thread has shed a WHOLE lot of light!!) ---

My pregnancy I was upped from .50 synthroid to .75 (I think that is right, it was a lowish dose) and had a super great pregnancy and perfect homebirth....

BUT.... my supply was NON EXSISTENT. I can really relate to electra's comment:

Quote:

Yeah, I hoped it was my thyroid -- otherwise I'm a fat, non-milk producing failure!
The thing that sucked and was so painful was that according to my tsh my thyroid levels were *normal* with the synthroid and I was not producing ANY milk --- the breastfeeding failure is something that continues to haunt me to this day concerning my daughter -- I tried everything to produce milk and here I thought, it can't be related to my thyroid because my levels are "normal" --- well now I know that is crap









Anyway, my question is, I have been off any medication for about two years and I am beginning to have symptoms that are more pronounced -- mainly thinning hair, low energy, weight gain/difficulty losing weight -- I can't tell whether my throat is swollen or not, I don't know what to be feeling for exactly --

I want to take a nutritional approach and we don't have insurance (or money







) to go to the doctor and get all these tests ordered (my dh is a music teacher, no insurance) --- but according to my last thyroid test --- man if I can even remember --- TSH was 20 or something? Does that ring a bell? I could be way off -- way back then I was just too hell bent on someone BELIEVING me about my symptoms that I didn't do a lot of research into tests/meds etc.

We are strict vegetarians and have just given up soy so I hope that helps -- but then that also gives me a moral opposition to the Armour -- which even if I did take, wouldn't take until I could get proper testing for all that you mamas mentioned ---

We were considering taking CLO for vitamin d and omega 3s and sure people may say what is the difference between a pig and a cod -- but for some reason to us there is and also even deciding to take the CLO would be a huge step for me ethically (please understand







) ...

Ah, so what else should I be doing nutritionally -- is the iodine patch test accurate? I don't know as I could be defficient, it could go either way -- I don't think we eat a lot of iodine rich foods, I can't stand kelp, tastes too fishy to me --

We switched to cast iron and have upped our non-heme iron a lot and take it with vitamin c to help absorption, as I know non-heme iron is not absorbed as well

we have begun magnesium baths

I have begun a multi vitamin with what I believe is all natural vitamins except for the ones are only found in animal sources --- hence the decision to maybe begin CLO

- Separate vitamin B support

( I am saying *we* because many of these things we are doing already for some nutritional imbalances I believe dd age 2 may be experiencing unrelated to thyroid)

I did read some of the suggested web sites/nutritional/natural sites and they have been very informative and wonderful and thank you all....

I am sorry I am all over the place, just trying to make sense of this!

I am very much supportive of natural, homeopathic/naturopathic/nutritional healing and when we can afford a doctor and tests (whether through insurance or cash-pay) can someone tell me *exactly* what to ask for? Like give me a dialogue --









"Hi, I have a thyroid issue and I need X, Y, Z tests"

Thanks in advance!


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## bigeyes

go to stop the thyroid madness dot com and read read read.

go join natural thyroid hormones at yahoo groups and start asking questions and again read read read.

there are ways to get tests done if your doctor won't cooperate. there are ways to get supplements and natural thyroid if you can't get a prescription. It's more expensive, but it can be done. There are sites where you can search for a better doctor.

It's a pain, but when so many things are working against us, we don't have any other choice but to do the legwork ourselves.


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## captain crunchy

Thank you for your quick response, I have gotten a lot of information from this thread, your posts have been especially helpful









I have been eating all the wrong foods too! In addition to soy (which I recently gave up) I do eat spinach, broccoli, brussel sprouts, peaches and pears --- like almost all the foods they say suppress thyroid function







whoops....

I also don't believe I get enough iodine -- looking at my sea salt, it isn't iodine rich --- well, one good thing I did was to stop flouride toothpaste months ago, but now I realize my filter probably isn't filtering it from the water! AH... my book on nutritional healing says to drink steam distilled water.... does that not have flouride? Do I buy it?

I see a lot of people mentioning progesterone and hyrocortisone (sp) --- how do these help?

Thank you again for all your info!


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## prettypixels

I just recently switched to Armour thyroid and I now have a normal body temperature for the first time in... I literally don't even remember how long. I am still exhausted but I have a 10 month old baby who is a horrible sleeper!


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## linguistmama

Here are the test results that I got from the PA:

TSH 1.54 Range .45-4.67
Free T3 2.9, 2.4-4.2
Free T4 .89, .71-1.85
Ferritin 21, 12-200
Progesterone 20.6, 22.5-95.3 for 2nd tri preg(which I am)

It was like pulling teeth to even get her to authorize these tests! And of course she wrote a note on the results saying everything is normal. These results explain why I'm having so many symptoms besides nausea and vomiting. On Monday I see an Osteopath in the hopes that he will be open to the rest of the testing I need. I especially want to see what my anitbodies are, I want to make sure they are ok before starting iodine etc. I also need to read more at sttm to see about treatment options.


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## Electra375

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Moms here can see through the way big business tries to push vaccinations on us, and how they try to market so many things that we just don't need. Why isn't it obvious that big pharma, in partnership with the FDA, is also in the business of selling us products we don't need at an inflated price?

Absolutely!!! No one has to tell me this more than the first time.

For me, I'm using synthetic b/c that is what I was prescribed and it seemed to do okay at first. So I got a script for 1 yr from my doc. Now I have a lot of synthroid and I now know I need something more, ie T3 help. It's cheaper for me to use what I have and add Cytomel and when I'm out try Armour and see how that goes. So that is the plan... If only I had just asked for Armour to start with, gyn guy probably would have done it for me.

I'm 3 1/2 does in w Cytomel added and I feel a little better, I'm not holding my breath, sometimes it could just be mind over body. I'm giving it until Monday at this dose.

I need to go in for my PAP, so I can discuss all this then and possibly get a script for Armour, but he just gave me the script for the Synthroid. I hate to "bug" him.

For Captain Crunchy, I'll have to read your post but really quick, sometimes an online pharmacy from outside the US will have better prices than even your co-pay if you had insurance. I came across this for myself. I'm also from Latin America and have had access to non-US made medications and feel for me they are safe.

The best advice I can give you is to read my most favorite books by Julia Ross The Diet Cure and The Mood Cure. I found The Diet Cure at my local library and I later purchased both for my own library. If I had to own just 1, it would be The Diet Cure. Solidly the best book on thyroid I've read. Books by Mary Shomon are also good, but The Diet Cure goes into more natural approaches to healing I think.


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## Dana Hoffman

Hi, all...
Just to offer a different perspective, I have been on levoxyl and a seperate t4 (compounded to be time released) for a few years, and feel much better than when I was on naturthroid. I find it is much easier to monitor and keep my levels stable. I am very hashimoto's, and have been since I was a small child--and bordering on "national geographic"-style goiter...lol...

Dana
mama to 15 yo Lauren, 9.5 yo Otto, and new little one due in May!


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## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *captain crunchy* 
Thank you for your quick response, I have gotten a lot of information from this thread, your posts have been especially helpful









I have been eating all the wrong foods too! In addition to soy (which I recently gave up) I do eat spinach, broccoli, brussel sprouts, peaches and pears --- like almost all the foods they say suppress thyroid function







whoops....

I also don't believe I get enough iodine -- looking at my sea salt, it isn't iodine rich --- well, one good thing I did was to stop flouride toothpaste months ago, but now I realize my filter probably isn't filtering it from the water! AH... my book on nutritional healing says to drink steam distilled water.... does that not have flouride? Do I buy it?

I see a lot of people mentioning progesterone and hyrocortisone (sp) --- how do these help?

Thank you again for all your info!

Hydrocortisone helps if your adrenals are shot and are preventing the thyroid hormone from getting into your system to be used. There is also a natural thyroid hormones adrenals group where a lady named Val can help you a lot with that stuff. Other hormones get out of balance when your thyroid is out of whack, which is why they get mentioned. There are women in the thyroid group who are pretty well versed in the other hormones, they can help you with that information.

Water is really a hard one. Flouride and chlorine are both bad for your thyroid, and they are usually in water supplies, and then you have the problem of bottled water and the whole plastic thing. We have catchment water (rain) and a 3 filter system, and I use glass bottles. I'm also getting ready to buy kleen kanteens for travel.

One thing about it, we are so lucky we are living in this computer age. The internet really did save my life, because if it were not for my online thyroid group, I would be dead from thyroid related illnesses.


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## Electra375

Captin Crunchy -- I have been taking a lot of natural supplements and those alone are rather expensive, more expensive per month than my thyroid meds for 3 months self paying using off shore pharmacies.

Tests -- TSH is rather useless from what many say. However, I think all the tests, useless or not, give a total picture. The TFI is an outdated test, however, it is what prompted my GYN to treat me.

The big tests people ask for --
TSH
Free T4
Free T3
Antibody tests (you'll have to look those initials up, I forgot).

Other tests that are benficial, adrenal tests Cortisol (saliva is suposed to be the best, most MDs use urine) and one other...

Pitutitary function tests, incase your thyroid is related to a pituitary problem.

It gets very confusing, trust me...

If you TSH was 20, you belong on medication IMO. Normal TSH is under 5 and some labs under 2 or 3.

The TSH begins to not be worth anything when you are symptomatic with normal TSH levels -- IE ME!!! That is when the Free T4 and Free T3 started to tell the real picture.

HTH


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## Electra375

Quote:


Originally Posted by *linguistmama* 
Here are the test results that I got from the PA:

TSH 1.54 Range .45-4.67
Free T3 2.9, 2.4-4.2
Free T4 .89, .71-1.85
Ferritin 21, 12-200
Progesterone 20.6, 22.5-95.3 for 2nd tri preg(which I am)

It was like pulling teeth to even get her to authorize these tests! And of course she wrote a note on the results saying everything is normal. These results explain why I'm having so many symptoms besides nausea and vomiting. On Monday I see an Osteopath in the hopes that he will be open to the rest of the testing I need. I especially want to see what my anitbodies are, I want to make sure they are ok before starting iodine etc. I also need to read more at sttm to see about treatment options.


I agree, just b/c they are within the "normal limits" does not mean it's normal for you. My last pregnancy was the worse ever, I was SO sick and I had never been sick before (3 pregnancies before, not ever sick). I think it was b/c my levels were so not normal for me. I was hanging out 1 10th of a percent within normal and the local endo said he would not treat me! No wonder he'd been pulled from the "best thyroid doc" list.


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## captain crunchy

Thanks for your info electra -- I may have been wrong about the 20, maybe it was 2 something because they said it was *borderline* so if it were 20, I don't know as I would have been on only 50 of synthroid? Again, this was a couple of years ago so I am fuzzy on the exact details but I do know I was taking just 50mcg of synthroid and in my understanding that is a fairly low dose?

I dunno, I believe I have adrenal issues too so I am off to check out that thread ---

Hubby and I have been under a lot of stress lately... A LOT (of a financial nature) and I notice my symptoms tend to flare during those times so maybe it isn't so much hypothyroidism as it is an adrenal issue interfering with its function?

Really, thank God for the internet. Especially for people who are financially challenged and don't have insurance or even the money to see a doc right now --- or even for people who DO see "good" doctors that tell them a bunch of bs.

At least I feel a bit empowered to do everything in my immediate power to try to support my adrenal system and thyroid until I can get proper testing.

Thanks all!


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## captain crunchy

*bump*

A lot of useful information here!


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## KimPM

Re: drinking water...
Distilled water may be good to drink for short periods to detox, but I wouldn't do it for too long. It's so deficient of minerals that it pulls them from your body. Good for short detox, bad for long term use. We started with bottled spring water (large 5 gal bottles and a cooler) at first when we got off carbon filtered tap water. Now we finally got a reverse osmosis system installed, and boy is it nice. Your options for fluoride free water are: distilled water, well water, reverse osmosis, and spring water, though not all well and spring water are fluoride free.


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## bigeyes

Today some of us noticed we couldn't access the stop the thyroid madness page. If you google 'the wayback machine' you can still get there while the owner gets it sorted out.


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## NocturnalDaze

We rent so we haven't put a reverse osmosis system in our home. We get our water from those big filtration machines that they have at the supermarket. The ones we use are reverse osmosis and it's $1.50 for 5 gallons. The only problem is we have to put our water in plastic containers...still trying to figure out how to do it with glass.


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## beautyful

I posted a couple of months ago, I think, that my thyroid had been hyper but the treatment plan was to wait and see.

At my last check it TSH had gone from .20 to 1.7 in a month. That was on October 19ish. (I wish I could find my lab sheet, because it had the values for FT4 and FT3. But I know they were in normal range too.) I have positive (reallyreally positive for one of them) antibodies.

Now that the background is all out of the way..









The last few days or so, I've noticed that my eyelashes are constantly getting in my eyes. I have to get at least one out a day. None of my other hair (head, legs, etc.) is falling out like this that I can notice. My milk supply is down too, but AF should be here Wed, so that's not abnormal.

Is this a sign that I might be swinging to hypo? (My mom, grandmother, greatgrandfather all have/had it.) I follow up with my endo again in January, so I don't want to be Chicken Little now.


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## jlutgendorf

Hi everyone! I don't know if I should be here or not, can you all give me some advice?

I'm trying to decide if I need to get my thyroid tested. Here's what's going on.

2003 - was on hormonal bc (the patch) for about 3 months. Made me crazy, made dtd painful and killed my libido (like seriously, killed it).

Stopped taking it, I got uncrazy, but dtd still hurt and I didn't want to do it anyway, those have never gone away (mama's my partner and I haven't dtd in 2 years, that's how bad it is).

I've felt depressed on and off, I feel tired a lot, which makes me feel more depressed because I feel guilty that I'm not doing more around the house. And lately, my memory is terrible and I normally have a fantastic memory. I'll open up email to send an email and by the time it's up, I've forgotten who I was emailing and why and it takes a few minutes to figure out what I was doing.

Finally stopped procrastinating and went to the gyn. Turns out I have a low level yeast infection (for 4 years? What's wrong with me?) and she's sending me to a therapist for the libido issues (same as what the last gyn. told me). I do realized that having a drive that's this depressed has most likely given me some issues, but I think there's more going on with my hormones. We're talking I went from joyfully dtd to zero desire in 3 months.

She also ordered a cholesterol test which turned up borderline high levels for cholesterol and LDL (and I just turned 26 and east mostly healthy!).

I've always been sensitive to cold, and have put on about 20-25 lbs in the last few years (though that could be my nice young metabolism is slowing down).

So does any of that sound like it could be thyroid related? If so, then I need to find a dr. who will order the test. Like I said the dr. i just saw the other day said there's no way bc could kill my drive for that long and she's not aware of any hormone studies that would indicate my loss of libido is due to an imbalance, so I probably have set up mental blocks, blah blah blah.

I just don't know. My life has also been more stressful these past months, and I know that can effect everything as well. What do you all think?

(and thanks for listening to me ramble! I have a hard time getting to the point!
















~Julia


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## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jlutgendorf* 
ne

So does any of that sound like it could be thyroid related? If so, then I need to find a dr. who will order the test. Like I said the dr. i just saw the other day said there's no way bc could kill my drive for that long and she's not aware of any hormone studies that would indicate my loss of libido is due to an imbalance, so I probably have set up mental blocks, blah blah blah.


Stop the thyroid madness is back up. Go read. Being cold, and tired and having no sex drive are big signs that you may have a thyroid problem. All of your hormones can be out of whack when your thyroid is screwed up, so it sounds like your doc is just as bad as the ones most of us have gone to in the beginning.







:


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## Electra375

Julia
My GYN was who dx me. He's in my book the best gyn I've ever seen. He talks to his patients in his office and I went to see him, he mentions my weight and I told him that I'd been wanting to test my thyroid b/c I have a lot symptoms that point to it not being 100% for me. I said I needed a complete panel b/c 2 yrs ago my TSH was normal, but I know that isn't the compete picture. It was done, he wrote the order and I was tested.
If you have a relationship w your GYN, go in and talk to her, let her what you want done. You are the client, she is the doctor -- ask. The worst that can happen is she says no and you find another doctor, the best case is she says yes and helps you.
FWIW - the local endo doc here will not see patients w/o a referal, he just has too many. In fact, I went to see him for more tests and he told me I was fine. Fortunately, he notified my GYN and he called me into his office and talked about treatment w me.
Your symptoms are valid enough to ask for a thyroid panel of tests TSH, Free T4, Free T3 and even the older TFI (which is an interesting little # even if most doctors don't rely on it anymore). Andrenal tests are often useful since thyroid and adrenals are related in symptoms, if you treat thyroid and have andrenals not treated, you won't feel well. For women w issues surrounding pregnancy and birthing, antibody tests should be done and Pituitary hormone levels.
I requested the pituitary hormone levels and unfortunately I was unable to read them, my GYN didn't tell me they were cycle specific and my cycle is so wacked up I don't know when my phases are right now.

My adrenal tests were 1/2 done by the Endo and he didn't see why to do more. So, as a precaution I take vitamins and minerals that support adrenal function. I think I was caught early enough to not have drained my adrenal system, yet on the other hand I have some signs. So, simple supplement support is my only option.

If you can not find a doctor to treat you, I would suggest finding a chiropractor who is trained in Applied Kiniesology. AK is a weird thing, I was shocked and amazed at it's accuracy. Dr. Mercola has a few articles on the topic which I find reassuring.

Best wishes


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## Electra375

Steph,
You stated you have the antibodies, are they treating you with any medication? I read somewhere that there was success in preventing either state with using T4 (Synthroid). It was in a Mary Shomon book I believe. She answers questions at about thyroid dot com.

I definitely see your symptoms as being thyroid related, hypo dips milk supply (this I know personally and my 4th baby is on formula b/c of it).

I really hope you find some answers fast.


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## jlutgendorf

Just wanted to say big quick THANK YOU! (I'm at work).

I'm seeing a therapist on friday regard the libido issues, I'll find out if she's allowed to order blood tests and see if she will. If she can't/won't, then I'll keep searching. Thanks for the specific names of the tests, that helps a lot.

~Julia


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## linguistmama

I saw the Osteopath who attended dd's birth yesterday and he was fantastic! He ordered the rest of the testing I wanted so in a couple of days I'll get the results. Then we can look at treatment options. I'm wanting to start with nutrition and possibly supplements.


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## WannabeaFarmer

ok I have a question for you ladies:
A little history,
I have been on depo for 2 yrs, I have Graves, I have never had cramping or bleeding of any kind with the depo(thats why I am on it). My Endo recently changed my levoxyl from 112mcg daily to 112mcg daily and 1/2 pill on sat & sun. I have bee on this dose for three weeks or so. During that time I have noticed hormonal type changes:
i.e. Menstrual bleeeding ( older blood, with like a sweet smell??)
cramping(mild)
headaches
nausea
Strange bout of emotions(hormonal pms type stuff)
decrease in breastmilk(even though DD is nursing more frequently)

This has strangly corresponded with the increase in my thyroid med dose, or do ya'll think this could be an obgyn issue? I am kinda weirded out







:
Any ideas?


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## Moon Faerie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NocturnalDaze* 
Hyperemesis is very often caused by poor adrenal function....

Huh. Wow. So maybe we will reconsider having another baby. After having hyperemesis both times, we decided that we're done, even though we both always wanted 3.

I went in and got tested about a year ago, complaining of several hypo symptoms, mainly fatigue, weight gain, and hair loss. All the blood work came back "normal."

Well I still have all the same symptoms. I checked out the list on stop the thyroid madness, and I have easily 75% of the symptoms. I think I'm going to be going in again. Something's got to give; I need to be able to function again.


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## 3girlsmommy

Ok I have a question for some of you wise women. I have hypo. For the most part now that my meds have been adjusted I am feeling "normal" but I can't lose weight. I have noticed though that the week before I get my period I drop about 5 pounds but then it all comes right back the week after, no matter what I do or don't eat. My diet is pretty much the same before, during and after. My question is.... does anyone have any ideas as to why this is happening? I'm wondering if there is some hormone that my body produces during that time that it doesn't produce the rest of the month.


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## WannabeaFarmer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jess12808* 
ok I have a question for you ladies:
A little history,
I have been on depo for 2 yrs, I have Graves, I have never had cramping or bleeding of any kind with the depo(thats why I am on it). My Endo recently changed my levoxyl from 112mcg daily to 112mcg daily and 1/2 pill on sat & sun. I have bee on this dose for three weeks or so. During that time I have noticed hormonal type changes:
i.e. Menstrual bleeeding ( older blood, with like a sweet smell??)
cramping(mild)
headaches
nausea
Strange bout of emotions(hormonal pms type stuff)
decrease in breastmilk(even though DD is nursing more frequently)

This has strangly corresponded with the increase in my thyroid med dose, or do ya'll think this could be an obgyn issue? I am kinda weirded out







:
Any ideas?

Well my endo thinks its an GYN issue, so I suppose my questions are more for another thread than this one...The symptoms have worsened too....Oh well







:


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## Electra375

Question --
I started Cytomel (T3) about the 1st of Nov. 4 days later my Libido is BACK full force like a teenager and it hasn't gone anywhere but up. Do I need to say I'm feeling more than a little frisky...








Is it the medication? Or just coinsidence???


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## bigeyes

No coincidence. Nice, huh?


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## Electra375

WOW... I think starting the Cytomel was a good choice. I need to have some more blood work done, I do not think I make T3 from T4 very well at all.

How long will this last? LOL







:


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## jlutgendorf

I got my thyroid tests back, and they all seem to be normal. Sigh. In a twisted sort of way I was hoping they would show I had a problem to explain my total lack of sex drive. I still want to look into testing my sex hormones, but maybe now I'm looking at mild depression.

Here's my results

TSH 1.81 (normal .34-5.6 uIU/ml)
Free T4 .68 (normal .58-1.64 ng/dL)
T3 1.56 (normal .87-1.78 ng/mL)
(I thought they were testing Free T3, but apparently not!)

When looking for explanations of what the results mean, I've seen some that give different ranges, is that pretty standard that each office sets their own "normal"? Some of those ranges would put me low on the Free T4, but not by very much.

Electra, I'm jealous! Enjoy the friskiness!

~Julia


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## Electra375

My Free T4 was like yours, within normal limits but just barely!!!
My GYN treated my symptoms, not the numbers.

But I've been on meds since July and realized I needed more probably than what he was giving me, so the "friskiness" took a while to happen. But yes, it is nice, my dh is well...


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## goomjiji

I was just dx boderline hypothyroid based solely on TSH (4.7) as part of an initial round of infertility testing. Dr. prescribed Synthroid (25mcg), but I'm reluctant to jump on the meds if I can resolve it more naturally. So I'm seeing my acupuncturist/herbalist.

Has anyone had success with Chinese medicine? Am I going to end up on the meds anyway if/when I get pregnant? Should I just take them now to get/stay pg and try to go with something more natural PP? Has anyone been in this type of situation and what did you do? I know that nobody can tell me what I should do, but any advice or input would really help to me figure out what is the best path to take.

It seems likely that this could have developed PP with DS, but perhaps not. I had horrendous nausea until about midway through with my first pregnancy. Could that have been something off with my thyroid? Could it create problems with labor starting or progressing? DS doesn't exhibit any of the "side effects" a baby would suffer from having a hypothyroid mama during pregnancy, but . . .

I just feel so lost. I've got a couple of books waiting for me at the library, but almost all of the research I've seen online just points to thyroid meds as the only solution. And it would be easier to just trot down the alternative medicine path if I didn't have to be concerned about what is/isn't safe for somebody TTC because it seems that Synthroid really is safe for pregnancy and breastfeeding. Or maybe I should just give up the idea of having another baby and cherish DS and take care of myself.

TIA for any wisdom you can share.


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## Electra375

A natural cure, read Julia Ross The Diet Cure or The Mood Cure, I like The Diet Cure better. She addresses hypothyroidism and how to pull yourself out of it using amino acid supplements, minerals, and sometimes medication if medically necessary. It is the first book I read and frankly the only book I go back to.

FWIW - I was given 25mcg of Synthroid and after 4 mo on it, I realized while I felt a wee bit better, I was not really better. I started adding like 1/4 of a pill more, then 1/2 and then read up on T3 Cytomel and once I started that -- WOW!!! So there is a lot of evidence to support Armour, which is animal based thyroid hormones and it covers T4, T3 and a few others.

The 5 and under TSH score is very out dated. I believe newer tests look at anything above 3 (might even be 2) is Hypothyroidism.

In Julia Ross's books she does advocate the use of medication when medically necessary along w the supplement routine and diet recommendations to aid the body. The goal is not to be on the supplements forever, but rather a short term to heal and get the diet to supply the nutrition necessary to give the body what it needs to function on it's own. It's breaking the cycle of diet distruction to your body and even the best diets can benefit IMO.

As good as all the other Thryoid books are out there, I LOVE my Julia Ross books, her philosophy is more in line w my thinking. I would love to go to her clinic and be treated... I don't see that ever happening, so I use my GYN for tests and use my books to heal myself.


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## Brookesmom

Hi all,









I have mild to moderate hypothyroid and adrenal fatigue. Just found out a few months ago with a "holistic" M.D. after my chiro did muscle testing at the beginning of the year and told me my adrenals were shot.

I go back for follow up lab results next week to see if I need Armour and or hydrocortisone or if the multivitamins/minerals are doing enough. I don't think so because my temps are still running 97.1-97.5 but they are pretty stable so maybe the adrenal fatigue is getting better which she wanted me to work on.

How are all your temps? I can't believe no PCP Dr. ever asked me this question. They've been this way at least 6 years when I started temping for TTC baby #1 ! Reading the symptoms of both hypo and adrenal fatigue, I feel vindicated, like I wasn't lazy or a hypochondriac after all, all these years! (I know I wasn't but it was insinuated to me over the years or I was told "it's just from having two little kids, honey".) Can anyone else relate?

Just knowing what it is makes me feel tons better emotionally although I hope to get more energy soon, like a normal person LOL. I would love to have my libido back too!

--Kelly


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## Indigomama

jlutgendorf - your lab values look like mine when I initially started to suspect thyroid issues..

According to a link on Mary Shomon's thyroid page below, TSH results can be different depending on time of day and fasting... I actually went back through 3 years of my own TSH tests once I realized the normal values they were pitting me against were baloney and was surprised at the results... clearly I can't vouch for the info below (always have to take anything you pull off internet with grain of salt). I had had several TSH tests taken in the space of about 4 months, and all the ones taken in afternoon post lunch were below 3 and all in morning were above.

http://thyroid.about.com/od/getteste...a/tshtests.htm

_"In some cases, if you are having your thyroid testing done along with other bloodwork -- such as glucose, insulin, or cholesterol levels done -- you will be asked to fast, and have your test done first thing in the morning. In other cases, your doctor may not dictate when to have your TSH test, or whether or not to fast. But be aware that if you test later in the day and you've eaten, you are likely to have a lower TSH level than if you test earlier in the day with fasting."_


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## flutemandolin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brookesmom* 

How are all your temps?


I have been tracking my temps using Dr. Rind's graph and before I started taking Nutri Meds thyroid glandular they were in the low 97's. When I was taking Nutri Meds I was averaging 97.8, even had a few days at 98.2. Then I ran out and my new order hasn't arrived yet.







I just took my temp and it was 97.5. By the way, I lost about seven pounds during that same time when my weight hadn't budged in months!

I asked my doctor about my low body temperature last year and he just said "98.6 is an average. People vary a lot, you can't tell anything from temperature." Excuse me, does temperature not indicate how my metabolism is functioning? And maybe all the "normal" people with temps on the low side are really hypothyroid and could benefit from treatment. (Carefully) treating myself has made a difference!


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## 3girlsmommy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flutemandolin* 
I have been tracking my temps using Dr. Rind's graph and before I started taking Nutri Meds thyroid glandular they were in the low 97's. When I was taking Nutri Meds I was averaging 97.8, even had a few days at 98.2. Then I ran out and my new order hasn't arrived yet.







I just took my temp and it was 97.5. By the way, I lost about seven pounds during that same time when my weight hadn't budged in months!


Do you take the Nutri Med and synthriod(or other thyroid medication) or do you take it in place of the medication? And where do you get it?


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## flutemandolin

I order them from their Web site: http://www.nutri-meds.com/ The first order arrived very quickly, like two days after I ordered. This one has taken a week now.

I wasn't on any other thyroid medication before this (doc didn't think my numbers were abnormal), so this is somewhat of an experiment. If I continue to see results, I want to find a doctor who will prescribe Armour because it's cheaper.

A note of caution about experimenting with over the counter thyroid glandulars: read all the info on Stop the Thyroid Madness, and the Real Thyroid Help forums before you begin. Treat for adrenal fatigue first if necessary. Increase your dose gradually, and keep a record of all your symptoms.

As long as I'm posting, I have a question: has anyone else had experience with hypo symptoms connected to Lyme disease? I know there's one article about it on STTM, and I think mine might be related.


----------



## beautyful

Thanks Electra, for the advice!

I decided I was just paranoid and didn't call because I didn't want my doctor to think I was crazy. (Good reason, huh?)

The last two days, I'm back to hyper symptoms. Intense irritability is NOT something I need with Thanksgiving. Oh well, at least I'll be able to pig out.







I called and left a message at the endo's office just so they can note it in the chart. There's nothing they can really do until I either even out, or my thyroid bites the dust.

My theory is that it dipped low a bit, so the thyroid is overcompensating for it now. I woke up and felt like my milk had come in again, so now I'm trying to watch out for mastitis (again.)


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## WannabeaFarmer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *3girlsmommy* 
Do you take the Nutri Med and synthriod(or other thyroid medication) or do you take it in place of the medication? And where do you get it?

I was wondering the same thing. I found it!
Here








one of the many places im sure it can be found....I am very interested in trying this.

***







sorry bout the delayed reaction....my notificatins via email are a bit delayed....


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## tuppence

Oh, wow, I'm so glad I found you guys! I'm going to go back and read some of the past posts so I can catch up and read the advice but here's my story:

Before I got married, I had a goiter, which I didn't realize, but you can see in the pictures. I had gained weight and had to have my dress taken out even though I had been dieting. I was exhausted but put it all down to wedding stress.

During my pregnancy (I got pg on the honeymoon after we'd been trying for 6 months), I was extremely ill, irritable, and had an irregular heart beat. I thought it was normal pg stuff.

After I had the baby, I was miserable. Couldn't sleep because my heart raced all the time, got out of breath with any exertion, was an insane bitch to my family. Lost 110 lbs. Finally remembered that my sister has thyroid issues, so got checked out. Diagnosed as hyperthyroid with a level of .004.

I went on a beta blocker, which I still take, and PPU, which I don't. The PPU forced me into hypo and I was freezing, exhausted and gained 40lbs in two months. I would have kept taking it if it was doing anything, but it didn't seem to be doing anything positive.

I think I have Grave's disease but will need to be diagnosed further. There's a well recommended clinic in SC a few hours away from where we now live, so I'm planning on making an appointment there soon.

I was very interested to read the ithyroid comments--I had looked at his site when I was diagnosed but was hesitant to try it out--I'm going to look at the comments more closely and then head to the herb store.









Thanks for listening to my long saga--I'm looking forward to hanging out here.


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## simonboy'smommy

Wow, I've got a lot of reading to do on this thread! I'm just looking into the possibility of thyroid being the problem. I just don't feel great like I think I should and I am concerned about my younger sister too. We are both soooo low energy and I am dealing with more and more headaches and other problems on a regular basis. Hope I don't ask too many questions. I've got a lot.
My hair falls out but only from August into winter. Is that a symptom? Part-time hair-fallout?







My mom and I joked that it always did that because of the stress I went through at camp every year in Aug. My friends and their problems......wow. Anyway I felt fine as a kid and started having problems once puberty kicked in. No energy. I walk around in a fog. I'm having more and more trouble getting my eyes to focuse at times. I could go on but I'll read more first. Glad this thread exists!


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## reeseccup

Subbing so I don't lose you again, been trying to read through this thread and gain some information to aid in my healing naturally, if possible.

I'm not officially diagnosed, but I'm 99.99999% sure this is the base of my health issues. My mother, aunt, sister and brother all have it and are officially diagnosed, it's not a far stretch to figure I have it too.

Thanks for this thread and for all those that have are are willing to repeatedly support and help inform and provide btdt advise for others.


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## tanyalynn

Reesecup-since you mentioned healing naturally, if you have amalgam fillings (or other significant mercury exposure) you may want to do some reading on mercury and hypothyroidism. I have a family history of hypo too, and for me I realized that the hypo showed up because I have a genetic susceptibility that was triggered by the mercury.


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## reeseccup

Tanya, I'm probably one of the few people in this country that doesn't have any fillings or dental issues of any kind, but I was excessivly vaccinated in my youth with horrible reactions esp. to the tetnus (got those a lot being an accedent prone, barefoot farmgirl). I haven't ruled out anything, and am researching that angle as well.

My mother had her hypothyroidism diagnoised while she was prego with my older brother, she was under excessive stress with that preg. in her early 30's and there was a predisposition for her to have it (her sister had it for years before). In my case it seems to be genetic predisposition. Both my brother and sister were officially dx'd in their early 30's, my sister after she quit smoking and my brother (never smoked) after some excessive stress in his life partly due to a car wreck he had.

Me, my symptoms kicked in while I was pregnant with my last baby, in my 30's, quit smoking with pregnancy, 9-11 and dh left for an overseas deployment right before 9-11, and me in a fairly new place w/o much support, and 2 young children to care for. I was under a ton of stress, it was a stressful and uncomfortable pregnancy and I take the world on my shoulders and support everyone...but myself. I think the stress ultimatly kicked the hypo into gear, the straw that broke the camals back.

Ironically, this pregnancy I took the best care of myself, unlike my other preg. I took alfalfa religiously (come to find out the natural fluorine in it is a thyroid supressant) and I gained tons of weight with the baby. I asked for a thyroid pannel, and it came back "negetive", this was before I was better educated on what I needed to push for and to read the results myself. I had symptoms of low blood sugar, hypothyroidism, anemia, and high blood pressure, all tests came back negetive. No known cause for my symptomes *sigh*, so I just suffered. After I had dsyoungest, I got this horrible rash I couldn't get rid of. Was told it was a prego rash and it'll go away in a couple of weeks...several months later I was still dealing with it. It did finally go away on it's own. I nursed dsyoungest so much and ate not so much, yet I gained weight after he was born. I struggle to maintain and the pain some days overwhelm me.

The list of my symptoms is long, I didn't realize how many of my "irritating symptoms" are thyroid/adrenal related. This past fall, the symptms became so bad I couldn't ignore them anymore. I relented that I must focus on me, take care of my health or I'm not worth squat to anyone else. So I started the research.

I wish to fully understand before I do a lot of supplimenting, but I've started my lists of suppliments to consider, and I intend on revamping my diet (and to think I thought I was good by my body by eating all those good veggies LOL), researching the Paleolithic Diet and considering adjusting that to work for my new found dietary needs. I know nutrition very well, so this won't be so hard, on paper, always an adjustment in practice though. I strongly believe that the body can be healed with proper nutrition for the individual body's needs and exercise, and even some chiro care and chakra balance (for lack of a better term) and support in most cases.

This thread and the adrenal one, have been great fires under my bum to get me moving towards healing my body. I don't know if you ladies understand how important this thread is and how grateful I am for your time and efforts.








Reese


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## bigeyes

The thing about smoking is, a lot of us kept the symptoms of hypo at bay by smoking and using a lot of caffeine, then when we decided to get healthy and stopped....huge crash. I think I was hypo for many years before I knew it, and when I decided to live a healthier lifestyle everything fell apart. At one point I started smoking again and _felt better_ then I quit again and felt like [email protected]

It's so frustrating when the fatigue just takes over and no matter how much sleep you get it's never enough.







Self-medicating is the reason why so many people mysteriously _become_ hypo after quitting smoking and/or caffeine. They were hypo all along and just covering the symptoms with stimulants.


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## reeseccup

When I was reading your posts, I had an "ahha" momoment. I told my dh, no wonder all these years on a daily bases, I crave a bleepin' cigerette. I want to smoke, but resist. I've even cut way back on my caffine use, and just recently read that in black and green (white) teas there is natural fluorine and not suggested for use, or at very minimal use for those with hypo, not sure about hyper. I did notice after the initial wean, that I felt better and my mind felt clearer after I gave up my morning tea.

I so agree, the extreme exaustion just drives me completely batty. I used to be a self motivated individual with the desire to have a nice clean house and doing tons of projects, just for something to do. Now I'm lucky if I get even one room clean and a load of laundry done in a day. I just lack motivation, and the energy to act on what my mind is reeling around about wanting to do. If only I could shut my mind off some times so I can sleep, that would help too.

This has been quite an interesting research. My one and only NY's resolution is to make myself healthier, this is part of the journey.


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## bigeyes

Tea is also bad for your thyroid. You can't win.









Oh, the wired and tired thing, not being able to shut off and sleep at night is totally adrenal fatigue that comes from being hypo for years.

For years I was so annoyed with people who would ask me _Don't you feel so much better since you quit smoking?_ *NO, I don't.* If it didn't stink and my DH didn't hate it so much, I"d start again, and that's the honest truth.







:

The more research I do, the more things I find I am not supposed to eat or drink. And if one of your hormones (say, thyroid) is out of whack, it's a good bet another one is as well. My generation was put on synthetic hormones as teens because of irregular periods or menstrual cramps, _with no hormonal testing done whatsoever._ When we decided to stop taking the hormones for whatever reason (in my case supposed sterility) we were left all screwed up. Between daily doses of synthetic hormones from our pills, and the stuff that is in our food and water, it is no wonder we're all messed up in middle age.

But just try getting a doctor to _test_ your hormone levels and _correct them with a natural hormone source._







: They look at you like you have 2 heads. They hand out the synthetic hormones that mess up your system, but they refuse to test your levels to see what you need? That makes no sense at all. When you finally do get someone to test you, they won't do a thorough set of tests, but rather a haphazard group that doesn't show the complete picture, and then they give you synthetic, frankenstein hormones that don't work properly and cause even more health problems.









Do some research, talk to a doctor about it, and you're a hysterical woman, crazy, or exaggerating your symptoms.







It's amazing to me that there are so many of us sharing our stories, joining groups, exchanging doctor's names and even _giving up and self treating,_ yet mainstream medicine refuses to acknowledge the problem with anything other than _they're a bunch of crazy women._ In my thyroid group there are women who fly to Europe to see doctors because they are so sick of American doctors and their attitude.

Makes me want to blow smoke in their faces, but instead I self treat and keep looking for my perfect naturopath/homeopath/saintly doctor in the meantime.


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## reeseccup

UHHH did you need that vent?







I'm feeling you all the way!


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## bigeyes

It's the new year. I'm steeling myself for the annual onslaught of well meaning folks telling me how if I'd just eat more soy I'd feel better.









Since soy is one of the biggest goitrogens there is and it's hidden in most food that you can buy, it's a pet peeve. With my estrogen aggravated migraines, it's a double no-no.







: My delete finger is at the ready.


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## reeseccup

I hear ya, I can not digest soy, it gives me such severe pain that I break out in sweats. The funny thing is, I grew up on a farm and would eat raw soybeans out in the field...how's that for irony.







At least we didn't spray our fields or use any chemicals in the soil, it was just a rotation crop choice that we used and sold to our small town grain mill.

I have a friend that dh is diabetic, and she swears by splenda







She supports him by eating meals he would be able to eat, so she's eliminated a lot of the bad sugars/starches, but they depend on splenda as a sweetener, and hydrogenated oils (usually soy based). Luckily I'm blessed with good friendship and she doesn't mind I bring my own condiments







.

A few weeks ago I got a lecture from a friend about how handling my hypo naturally is dangerous and that the vitamines and such are regulated by FDA which means they aren't safe. She took a pharm class and her professor was very emotional about the dangers of herbs, and health food store supplies. Then she goes on about the great results she was getting on her synthroid. I told her I wasn't ignorant about how to educate myself and choose high quality sources of suppliments. I prefer not to put synthetic anything in my body, so I choose not to take the same route she chose, and left it at that...pass the beans moment.

Well today I'm wondering if I can eat my *tree nuts* (I know peanuts







and cashews are on the no-go list), but wondering about some of my other quick snacking nuts. Brazil nuts are good for us, a great natural source of Selinum, but I need variety. I have to force myself to eat most of the time, so a quick grab of a snack when I realize I've not eaten is best. I've read that pecans can aid in arthritis pain, so perhaps it'll help with other pain as well.

I drank a cup of *chamomile* infusion (tea) lastnight, first time in years I've had it, not sure why. I was in bed by 9:30 and slept until 5:00!!! I woke up tired, went to the toilet, climbed back into bed with another quilt and fell back to sleep. I woke up at 6:30 or thereafter and actually felt pretty with it, for once. So will be looking into that [chamomile] as well to find out if it was a freak chance or if there is a chemical reason behind my good sleep.

OH, I forgot, I ate some peanut butter cookies last week, first time in ages and my gut rejected them. That's when I put 2 and 2 together and so have now decided to eliminate peanuts+cashews+(ofcourse) soy for my health.

I tell you what, this whole thing has also lit a fire under my brown thumb as well. I'm going to do my utmost best and have some great gardens this coming season. I plan on a large parsley plot as well as cilantro, not to mention many other foods that are expensive to buy and not as healthy as from my own gardens. I'm blessed to have meat we're raising/hunting for healthier protein sources, and I'm good and taking care of animals, for some reason though, I never got the green thumb.

Anyway, Happy NewYear, it's going to be better as we heal our bodies.


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## reeseccup

Found this interesting, perhaps this is why I've been craving and eating these a lot lately. My only concern is how do I determine how much polyphenal antioxident level is too much for a hypo person? How does a serving of pistachios rate on the exstrogenic level? Doing more research....

Pistachio Nuts

Quote:

Super Nutrient Dense In 8 Nutrients
In relation to calories, pistachios are nutrient
dense in thiamin, vitamin B6, copper, manganese,
potassium, dietary fiber, phosphorus and magnesium.


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## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *reeseccup* 

Anyway, Happy NewYear, it's going to be better as we heal our bodies.

Yeah, peanuts are a no-no, but every now and then I have to have a peanut butter cookie. Brazil nuts are on the good list for the selenium which you need to help use the thyroid hormone, iirc.

I think if you google goitrogens you will get a long list of foods that you aren't supposed to eat. Broccoli is one, in fact a lot of the ones that you're supposed to eat for other health benefits are bad for your thyroid. Sometimes you have to eat a little bit of something, but I try to avoid as much as possible, especially around dose times. I think Mary Shoman's site and STTM have lists of the foods that are bad.

A lot of the women in my thyroid group get imported chocolate to avoid the lecithin, which to me is a good idea. I think the tiny bits of [email protected] that are in every little thing we buy build up, and that is why so many of us have this problem in the first place, yk? They put mercury in our fillings and in our vaccines, they put flouride in our water, they put hormones and soy in our food, and all this has been going on for most of my life....and then _thyroid disorders, obesity and related health problems are epidemic_, but only those of us who are sick can see the connection? That amazes and confounds me.


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## reeseccup

It confounds me as well, and what even boggles my mind the most, are those that are suffering that don't see the connections.

I was just reading that one Brazil nut a day is all we need, I can hang with that, they aren't my favorite nut, but I like them well enough.

I took a break from researching to tend to my sick dd and dh, luckily my ds's are entertaining themselves and are quite content.

OH, I had a couple more ahha moments today. I was reading that stimulants, not just coffee and drugs







, but vigurous excercise has the oppisite effect we are looking for as well. It's suggested that those with hypo do yoga and similar type exercises. I thought, 'huh, no wonder I always felt better after a belly dancing or yoga booty ballet session than after a power 90 workout.' I know with the belly dancing exercises, there is a segmant of focus on opening up chakras, esp. the neck chakra (think thyroid). I always felt relaxed but energized after a bellydance session, whereas after a power 90, or even Tony and the Kids, I'd feel ready to crawl into bed and crash for a long time.

NOTE to self: Stay away from stimulants, chemical and physical except fun time...when ready to sleep (gawd I can't wait to get my libido back *sigh)









Some interesting reading from Highbeam Encyclopedia

Another interesting read from Vitality

Sorry if anything I post is a repeat, this thread is long and I can't remember everything that's been linked.

Part of the food plan I'm putting together for myself will drastically reduce/eliminate a couple of food families, it's going to be interesting. I've come to terms I must give up some things in order to be healthy again, and it's worth it.

Reese


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## bigeyes

I hear you. It's frustrating, because I've had well meaning friends give me the tofu speech, and the exercise speech, but they forget I've already btdt. I used to work out over 3 hours a day, and I did the whole soy thing, and it made me sicker. When all the 'right' things don't work, you have to start digging deeper. Some people are luckier than others and their systems are more resistant to the toxins and hormones, I guess. For me, and others like me, there doesn't seem to be a safe level of exposure.


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## reeseccup

I had a friend that kept telling me I'd sleep better and loose weight if I exercised like her daily. She even stated that my periods wouldn't be painful if I just exercised. Yea, I'm one of them people that if I exercise, or even move, my periods are even more painful. "Well you know if you exercised more, and harder, you'd feel better", uhhu. Occasionally in my grumpy moments I wanted to say, kiss mine...people just don't get it.

As for soy, luckily most people I know get my anti-soy stance, and the ones that don't know arguing with me about it is futile







.

I don't necessarily think that others are less suseptable to reations, rather their bodies react differently and they aren't as intuned with their bodies and/or don't know how to read how they are feeling connecting it to why. People are so big into the bandaid treatments, masking the real reason behind their health woes. It's much easier to pop a pill than it is to actually delve deeply and revamp ones lifestyle. Case in point, the gal that was telling me how good her synthroid worked, as she's downing a pound *yes, I'm not exagerating* of bacon *shudder* and making comment that she's not lost any weight, but she was feeling better. Uhhu, and yet you wish for me to take advise from you on how to manage MY hypo? Suuuuuuuure, I'll make note that right away.

Better living through chemestry don't ya know...that's the mantra of the latter half of the 20th Century, and moving on into the 21st. If there is a pill to be popped, why not pop it, heck, even if it can be remotely suggested as an option, let's pop it. Let's not take any responsibility for our lifestyle being a cause of our health and revamp it so we can be healthier....without that pill. I'm all for popping a pill, if it really is towards a goal of reparing yourself, but not for a bandaid treatment.

Ooops, guess I need to pop off the soap box now huh.


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## bigeyes

preaching to the choir

I'm looking forward to a day, maybe when I have grandchildren, when big agriculture and food manufacturers are sued for damaging our health so they could profit with the addition of soy to nearly everything on the grocery store shelves. Everybody's gotta have a dream, right? Cigarettes have warnings now, why not soy products?


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## mommyshine

Hi - I am a recovered pp hypo. My TSH at it's worst was 14 (Oct 2006) and was 1.6 at my last test (Nov 2007). I treated it pp after both pregnancies with supplements. Had another health issue and loads of depression and stress, got adreanal fatigue... exhusted and couldn't sleep and what not... But things are better now. I have been taking Adrenal Stress End for the adrenal fatigue since July and that finally pushed my TSH from 3 points to where it is today. I am gettin gother health issues under wraps and am sleeping great!!! I got the go ahead to wean off the Adrenal supplement and decided to wait until after the holiday stress. I still take sups for thyroid but not as many.

Wish me luck! Happy New Year everyone.


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## tanyalynn

Mommyshine! Hey, you were one of the inspirations for me back when I felt bad and was trying to figure out the approach I wanted to take. I did the supplement route, too, and my symptoms went away (haven't actually re-tested). I later figured out that there was another, underlying reason for my thyroid problem--the mercury in my fillings. It messes up mineral transport in the body. Not sure if it would apply to you, but I wanted to mention it. I'm dealing with the adrenal fatigue stuff too right now, and I'm glad that you're on the road to feeling better.

Reese--you sound far better informed than I was when I dealt with this. And if I could do it, in my relative ignorance, then it sounds like you'll do a great job in figuring out the answers that apply to you. Good job!







Just re-read your response--mine came on during a stressful pregnancy (my 2nd) too. Stress, of all sorts, can really wreak havoc on us--something that I have only recently accepted.


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## WannabeaFarmer

Off to the ENDO....today for my checkup. Trying to convince her that I need Armour....Crossing my fingers she doesnt shoot me down. Cause then its off to the naturopath that is all out of pocket







:
She is a nice doc, my endo-so we will see if she will scribe it for me. Its covered by my prescription drug coverage-just gotta get a doc to scribe it for me.....Otherwise-Then I gotta pay for my own lab work,a special visit, and all the supplements out of pocket....
She is gonna be mad that I didnt get my blood work done before I went into her office today, but oh well-I want a full panel done anyways-not just a darn TSH....
So send me some good vibes for a happy visit.....


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## reeseccup

Thanks, thanks and thanks to you ladies. I'm feeling more confident every day that I'm choosing a good path for me and that I'll be able to beat this thing into submission







I've been researching this on and off for a while now, but with more intent recently. I've known I needed to face this issue, but have procrastinated it due to how daunting it is to face and deal with.

What prompted me to take more serious action was this past fall I had an exploision of symptoms. Then come to find out that what I was blaming on residual effects from having encephilytis, was really my thyroid/adrenal issues.

I have learned one valuable thing though, the more I learn, the more I realize I don't know and still need to learn.

Health to us in 2008


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## reeseccup

OH Jess, I hope she doesn't give you any gruff and you get what you need.


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## turtlewomyn

OK, here goes. My brother has been diagnosed with hypothyroid. I believe he has Hashi's as he described it as his autoimmune system attacking his thyroid and said it was hereditary. He was having horrible problems with fatigue, depression, sleeping a lot, weight gain, and his voice is gravely (he also has hair loss, but that has been going on for a while). He is on medication now.

After I had DD I lost weight very quickly, I was ten pounds below my pre-pregnancy weight by the time DD was six months old. Now, when she is 27 moths old I am 10 pounds above my prepregnancy weight (so, a 20 pound weight gain in about 20 months, not too extreme). This could also be attributed to a decrease in her nursing, a change to a new job which involves lots of sitting at a desk and high stress that has lead to overeating (mt. dew every day, icecream everyday). However, over the past month I have cut the bad stuff out, and have started exercising again. The scale isn't budging. I am now working on decreasing overall calories (I was eating about 2000/day - way too much for a non pregnant person I thought, and am now using sparkpeople to monitor this) and improving the nutrients in my diet as well, to see if that works for weight loss.
I also have had problems with reactive hypoglycemia (my GTT was a 67, they tried to claim that they missed GD when I grew a 9.5 lb baby and scared me into a c-section for fetal macrosomia fears). I do have rage issues as well, and have for a long time (I thought this might be attributable to the reactive hypoglycemia).
My cycles have been screwy since they came back at nine months pp. They are long, I usually O late, and my luteal phase has been variable. My periods are getting lighter and lighter, this last one was a few days of spotting (and no, I am not pregnant, I chart and there was a definite drop in Temp, and we avoided sex from day 9 onward (due to fertile CM) and I didn't O until day 24).
Now, my hair is NOT falling out, my skin is NOT dry and flaky, and I am tired but definitely not fatigued. My tiredness could easily be attributed to sleep deprivation (you know, mom stuff), because whenever I get more sleep I feel just fine. I do have some achy joints and muscles, but they seem to get worse after exercising, so perhaps I am just getting used to exercising?
Do I have enough symptoms to get my thyroid checked out? I made an appointment with my FP (who is also an OB/GYN VBAC doctor in town) but the soonest I can be seen is April 3rd (when I will get a pap smear and do some preconception counseling). We were hoping to start TTC in May/June of 2008. So, if there IS a problem, not time to fix it.
I googled thyroid and my location and found the "North Florida Regional Thyroid Center." I think I can go there without a referral because I have a PPO. Should I just go ahead and do that?
I am also thinking that I could have adrenal fatigue, and this place also looks at that.
What can thyroid issues due to my fertility? Will this risk me out of a homebirth (I was hoping to travel to another location to have an HBAC since none were available in my town)? Does it cause any issues with VBAC? I guess I am sort of afraid to find out, but I know that if it IS an issue, I should find out.
Sorry if some of these things have been answered in this thread already, I have been slowly wading through it and trying to look at the links, but it is a LONG thread!!!


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## bigeyes

I'm a little torn about them. They look like synthroid pushers. Where did you see that they treat adrenal fatigue? That part sounds good, but the ATA is very up on synthetics, which is unfortunate since the natural hormones make most of us feel so much better. If you read on Mary Shoman's site you will see that mainstream endos generally are anti-natural hormones, which is why so many of us don't use them.

When you follow their links they sing the praises of synthetic hormones, which gives me a really bad feeling. If you can get them to treat your adrenal fatigue that would be a really good thing, but you may want to expand your search before you commit. IIRC there are some pretty good docs in FL that have been mentioned on either the natural thyroid hormones group or the NTH adrenals group on yahoo, you could probably get someone to give you a personal reference.


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## turtlewomyn

well, the thyroid place wont even see me until I get labs done with my regular doctor. So, I got an appointment with his Nurse Practioner to run some labs for the 22nd. That will give me more time to do some research and get information off some of these websites as well.


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## mommyshine

I have an MD who practices natural medicine (an MD who uses crystals and herbals, and true Rx when needed) AND takes my insurance. She is not an endo - just a reg Dr. She treated my adrenal fatigue and monitors my thyroid since I have that in my history. The Dr who treated my thyroid with supplements was an MD but didn't take my ins. She gets women off stuff prescribed by the reg Drs all the time.

Search for integrated medicine or holistic medicine (not that you all haven't tried) - even these searches do not pull up the Dr I currently see, so they are probably out there, just hard to find










Tanya - glad you are feeling better! Health is complicated but attainable! We take so much for granted..


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## neveryoumindthere

tha'ts great you found a doctor who knows what they are doing.
If you dont mind, can you tell me more about how she tested/treated you adrenal fatigue, and how you felt before and after.


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## mommyshine

My Dr used a saliva test to test my cortisol at four dif times of the day.

I felt tired to THE BONE, completely DRAINED, Like I had no blood or something. They say men think of sex every few minutes... I thought of that saying often becuase I thought "I am soooooooo tired," About every other minute of my waking days. Then - I couldn't fall asleep!!!!! I'd get so upset and felt so desperate for sleep. Little things would wake me and I wouldn't be able to fall back to sleep. I wanted to run away somewhere where I could stay in bed all day. It went way beyond the hypothyroid fatigue. This all happened in response to emptional stress after my thyroid had started working better. I had a bad and wrong diagnosis which I took as true and written in stone and I grieved and got depressed and stressed and ... my body needed rest but there wasn't any to be found and once my cortisol got out of whack my perspecitve on everything was skewed.

Not sure how long it took to turn around once I started supplements... a few months maybe. I pretty much feel great now. Just very out of shape from years of pregnancy, birth, new baby, hypo, repeat... I am going for a swim right now though!


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## amyjeans

Anyone else having issues with rage and uncontrollable emotions lately? Now I am 7 months pregnant, but still after reading Mary Solomon's thyroid diet book, I know my adrenals are reeking havoc on my emotions and hormones.
right now I am on a rollercoaster. my doctor is helping me manage my adrenals but I would really like to get a grip. Know what I mean? I feel like I loose my temper often and am easily stressed out.
anyone else feel like this?


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## NocturnalDaze

I find that rage has to do with my thyroid. I was on 3.5 grains of Armour before I was pregnant. I had to raise it to 5.5 grains during pregnancy.


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## reeseccup

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amyjeans* 
Anyone else having issues with rage and uncontrollable emotions lately? my doctor is helping me manage my adrenals but I would really like to get a grip. Know what I mean? I feel like I loose my temper often and am easily stressed out.
anyone else feel like this?


Look at your diet! I've been off nightshade foods for not even a week now and I'm feeling so much better, a lot less stressed and a lot calmer. I used to have verbal rages at least once a day







and battled the urge to rage even more. The way I'm feeling can also be attributed to other parts of my diet/nutrition changes, but I think that the nightshade connection is a big one.

Nightshade family foods include, but not limited to, tomatoes, potatoes, peppers, eggplant, tobacco (don't smoke and try to avoid being around it) ...

If you are hypothyroidic, any kind of stimulant food/drink/exercise is not good for you. Avoid caffine and vigerouse stimulating exercise, instead do yoga or pilates or similar calming exercises and drink water.

health


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## amyjeans

wow- nightshade, I never knew of this! And we're on the Feingol;d diet also. Tomatos are eliminated during stage one- but I reintroduced them back into the diet thinking there was no trigger...guess there is, because now that I think about it, everyone in my family gets crazy after eating anything tomato-y.
so- no trigger foods, caffiene, heavy stimulants.
I think I can handle that- I'll keep you posted!
thanks!


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## N8'sMom

I'm subbing to this thread........

Sometime between the last pregnancy and this one I got
hypothyroid. I hate taking pills....I'm ready to explore other options.


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## MamaLisa1

Hi...I just saw this thread. I have been on meds for hypothyroidism for 5.5 years. I can answer a lot of questions about thyroid issues if needed...I think I've experienced almost every symptom!


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## southernmommie

subbing. just found this thread while searching.. My thyroid seemed to have quit working while pregnant with #2. That was 2 years ago. I've been on synthroid ever since. My question is, can I treat this with diet and natural ways, or do I have to stay on meds for the rest of my life??


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## MamaLisa1

interestingly, my dosage kept going up and then all of the sudden I went hyper. My tsh was .003, so they moved me down one prescription and now I take a half of a .75mcg of levoxyl...so .375. I know there is a more natural thyroid replacement called Armour www.armourthyroid.com which comes from pig thyroid, but I have not found anyone who would prescribe it to me. http://armourthyroid.com/ From what I understand, once you are on the meds, it's almost unheard of to be able to stop them...but I know there are some natural supplements that might make it possible for you to take less thyroid replacement hormone.


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## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaLisa1* 
interestingly, my dosage kept going up and then all of the sudden I went hyper. My tsh was .003, so they moved me down one prescription and now I take a half of a .75mcg of levoxyl...so .375. I know there is a more natural thyroid replacement called Armour www.armourthyroid.com which comes from pig thyroid, but I have not found anyone who would prescribe it to me. http://armourthyroid.com/ From what I understand, once you are on the meds, it's almost unheard of to be able to stop them...but I know there are some natural supplements that might make it possible for you to take less thyroid replacement hormone.

Go to stopthethyroidmadness.com

The tsh test is a colossal fraud perpetuated upon an unsuspecting public by Abbott Labs, the makers of $ynthroid. They invented the test, which is now considered the gold standard by misguided endos, and it is purely designed to make their product necessary. And telling you you're _hyper_ is one of the biggest lies of all. Often patients with adrenal or pituitary problems will have _both_ hyper and hypo symptoms while very much hyper and some endo lowers their thyroid meds making them feel even worse. Before the invention of Synthroid and the TSH test, people were treated by symptoms, not an arbitrary number concocted in a lab. Since nobody ever tests your TSH until you are sick, _there is no way they can know what *your individual 'normal' TSH is*._ People who take Synthroid continue to suffer from a laundry list of symptoms that many of us have found magically go away once we switch to natural thyroid. The pharmaceuticals industry and the doctors they brainwash fight against prescribing better, cheaper medicine because by prescribing synthroid, they get to keep taking your money for follow-up appointments (and more drugs)for high blood pressure, diabetes, obesity, heart problems, migraine headaches, menstrual abnormalities, acne and other skin problems, depression, IBS and many other mysterious illnesses that go away or improve when you find a doc who ignores the synthetic drug hype.

http://www.askapatient.com/viewratin...name=SYNTHROID

Now, there are some lucky patients who do OK on Synthroid. But for many of us, there were years of sheer hell spent on an endless quest for a doc who would believe us when we said we felt like death warmed over while their fabulous TSH test said we were _fine.









ETA-not that diabetes will go away, but the other illnesses do improve and often disappear. Many people could avoid diabetes and other obesity related illnesses if they just were treated properly for hypo before they gained ridiculous amounts of weight because of it.
_


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## nz mummy

Hi, I also have the hypothyroidism symptoms but fairly normal blood tests. Half of my thyroid was enlarged one day (after what I think was triggered by a lot of goitregen foods - another story) and were very sick etc. After a year f the docs etc doing biopsies, radioactive scans etc, thye decided that they still couldnt confirm if it were malignant, so removed half of my thyroid. It was the scariest year of my life - I work (on maternity leave at the mo) in the natural health industy here in nz, so found it so hard having to resort to drastic measures within my own health, especially when I often gave other people advice on similar things. Now a few years later, i still suffer incredible fatigue, sensative to the cold, healt palpatations, anxiety and hormonal ups and downs, but i've learnt to manage them (most of the time) well and also regularly go to a clinic here called Natural fertility and hornmone treatments wher i'm using a natural progesterone cream. Along with diet etc it all seems to be ok. Apart from the upheaval my body went through with being pregnant and hormones adjusting post natal!!!
If anyone needs advice on the foods to avoid - i'm your lady...


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## reeseccup

NC Mummy, I'm at the moment working on compiling a list of foods that I CAN eat, so that the daunting list of foods I should not eat doesn't seem so depressing. I've come to realize that I can still eat yummy foods, and a goodly variety, without starving or feeling starved or depraved.

Right now I'm allowing myself a day of "cheat within safe reason" for myself, but I've just started revamping my diet. The only foods I won't cheat and eat, are the cabbage family and the nightshade family foods. Those are the worse triggers for me, so I'm not going to allow myself several steps forward just to go twice as much backwards.


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## jlutgendorf

Hi wise mamas.

can any of you tell me if parathyroid has anything to do with hypothyroid? For example, if a grandparent has a parahtyroid conditions, can that make their children and grandchildren more susceptable to ALL thyroid conditions or just increase their chance of a parathyroid condition?

Thanks!

~Julia


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## Venice Mamacita

Jumping in -- I'm post-partum hypo (about 10 months after DS' birth) and have been on Armour for 14 months, after suffering 3.5 years not understanding what was wrong with me . . . SO happy to find this thread!


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## MamaLisa1

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Venice Mamacita* 
Jumping in -- I'm post-partum hypo (about 10 months after DS' birth) and have been on Armour for 14 months, after suffering 3.5 years not understanding what was wrong with me . . . SO happy to find this thread!


where are you mamas finding docs who will prescribe armour? I cannot find any local docs on the list other than a pediatrician and a family doc who is 38 miles away! I'd love to try it vs. staying on the levoxyl long-term. I find the levoxyl too hard to tweak. Right now, I break a 75mcg tablet in half, because 50 is too much, 25 is too little. I was on 100mcg at one point, so I'm thankful it has decreased, but I just hate how all over the place my levels are.


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## N8'sMom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaLisa1* 
where are you mamas finding docs who will prescribe armour? I cannot find any local docs on the list other than a pediatrician and a family doc who is 38 miles away! I'd love to try it vs. staying on the levoxyl long-term. I find the levoxyl too hard to tweak. Right now, I break a 75mcg tablet in half, because 50 is too much, 25 is too little. I was on 100mcg at one point, so I'm thankful it has decreased, but I just hate how all over the place my levels are.


I'd like to know this as well. I need a doc to go to in Oklahoma. All
my endo wants to prescribe is synthroid and there is no way I'm taking that.


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## bigeyes

PM'd you two.

I'm cross posting this in the adrenal fatigue thread as well. I don't recall which group of mine sent this information, but I did some research because I was intrigued, and of course, I'm obsessive.









Yk how flouride and chlorine can suppress thyroid function? Guess what? Lots of prescription meds are processed with those 2 things, which means that when you take your prescriptions, just like when you drink flourinated or chlorinated water, you are ingesting something that can counteract the medicine you take to help your thyroid disorder!
























Does anyone else ever feel like you just might explode?

this site isn't updated, so not all of the links still work, but there is a lot of information still available:
http://bruha.com/pfpc/index.html
more links:
http://www.thenhf.com/fluoridation_71.htm
http://www.just-think-it.com/f-drugs.htm
http://www.slweb.org/ftrcfluorinatedpharm.html

I especially like the 'may or may not' statement made in this link. If you can't tell me whether or not chlorine is left in the final product, maybe _you_ aren't qualified to tell me a pharmaceutical drug is safe to use.
http://www.unece.org/indust/chem3.htm

http://www.n-wellness.com/stories.php?id=84

I just like these guys cuz they rant like I do.








http://www.newstarget.com/008511.html
http://sonic.net/~doretk/Issues/99-0.../thegreat.html

Better living through chemistry? I think _not._


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## Venice Mamacita

Quote:

























Does anyone else ever feel like you just might explode?
Amen, sister! That's how I felt the whole time I struggled with this. My levels were on the low end of "normal." Thankfully DH is an acupuncturist and knows that the "normal" range is totally inaccurate -- he's the one who ordered my blood test and finally figured out what was wrong.

Re: finding a doc to prescribe, we're in LA and DH has many physician friends, so it wasn't a problem . . . sorry, I wish I could be more helpful.


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## PennyS

Hi Ladies -

I did not read through this entire thread so if I am being repetitive, please forgive me. At about 4 months PP, during a routine office visit, I had labs drawn. My PCP told me that my thyroid level was very low (0.087). She referred me to an Endo. who ran more blood work -- this was at 7 months PP in December. At that time, my TSH was 1.098 and T3 and T4 came back normal but my thyroid antibodies were 900! I have done alot of research and am looking at taking Selenium to try and lower the antibodies. As I am currently nursing, I was wondering if it is safe to take the 200McG dose? Also, would it be safe to take while TTC and/or during pregnancy?

I am going to back and read through this entire thread as I am sure there is great information here.


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## N8'sMom

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

T-4 Free is 1.0
T-4 Thyroxine is 12.2
TSH is 3.51

They say I am borderline HYPO.
Aren't these normal? I'm in my 4th month of pregnancy.
Even in the pregnancy ranges my labs look normal.

I was on 50mg of LEvothyroxine and now she wants me on
75mg of unithroid.

This doesn't make sense to me at all. Can someone explain this to me
so I can understand it better?? PLEASE? I don't get it.

I'm ready to stop taking the meds altogether. I don't think I need them.
I don't have any symptoms. I have the usual pregnancy tired-ness at times, but that's about it.

How do you know when your PP hypo goes away? Do they take you off
the meds and see how it goes? I don't want to be on pills forever.
I'm afraid I'll get stuck taking them because my thyroid will be reliant upon them. I started taking the pills in November 07. So it hasn't been long. I don't know if they've helped. Cuz like I said, I didn't have symptoms in the first place.


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## WannabeaFarmer

I was on meds during pregnancy without any physical signs or symptoms. I got put on meds after a blood test found that I was so Hyper that I could have given myself a heart attack with a combo of my high blood pressure and my thyroid and I didnt even know it.
After pregnancy my thyroid took a dump and quit working and now I am on meds to bring me back (t3 and t4) to normal range. They actually thought that my thyroid would have to be removed and had to do a repeat of my blood work at 6 weeks PP(I had blood work done immediately after delivery).
I would say that you need to discuss your concerns with your doctor and see what they say. I would imagine that they want you on 2 drugs cause the 1 isnt making enough hormone for both you and baby(that was my case, I was making too much for both of us).
If you arent satisfied you have the right to a second opinion.....








I found after going through three docs that I just had to find the right one who blended well and treated me proactively.
The reason I took so long to level out PP was because I didnt have the right doctor and they were ignoring my questions and concerns.
So I finally am comfortable now with my treatment.
Thats my suggestion, its totally up to you....


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## turtlewomyn

Well, I saw my FP yesterday about my potential thyroid symptoms (brother with Hashimoto's, tired, fatigue, low libido, screwy menstrual cycles, cold hands, low temperature on my FAM charts, stiff joints in the AM, aches and pains in joints and muscles, etc.). He thought that I was likely hypothyroid given my symptoms and ordered the blood tests. I will get those done this week and then go back in to see him for the results. I asked him if he would treat or refer me out to an endo. He said that he treats a lot of thyroid patients and some do prefer to be referred out to their endocrinologist. I asked him what medications he usually prescribes and he said he starts out his patients on synthroid and most do well, those that don't get switched over to armour. I told him I would research the two meds in time for our next appointment and he nodded. Of course, I have a hard time getting through all the information because of my lack of concentration!
I like this doctor though, he is our family doctor and did not bat an eyelash when I told him I was still nursing my 28 month old. He is also one of the VBAC supportive docs in town (since he does OB/GYN too) and I told him the situation of my c-section (coerced for fetal macrosomia by a doctor who told me that I might sue him, so he needed to talk me into it). He kind of chortled, and told me that he thought there had been a huge pay out in a lawsuit for a shoulder dystocia injury the year or two before my c-section in the county where I had it. He didn't say it outright (because of the liability) but I could tell that he had a very different mindset then that doctor.
So, we shall see what the bloodwork says.


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## reeseccup

Hi all, just a quick update. I've been trying really hard to stay on a nutritional path that is best suited for my health. It's not been easy, and I've slipped on the edge a few times, but for 2 weeks now, I've been really trying. I'm not good at taking suppliments, that's the hardest part for me, popping suppliments and remembering to do so.

I decided I needed to take some thyroid and adrenal concentrates, L-tyrosine, zinc, selinium (via a brazil nut daily, may up that) and royal jelly. I'm also trying really hard to stay gluten free (slipped on some pasta the other day, and some pita bread today), brassica veggies, and nightshade family veggies/fruits, and foods that are estrogenics.

I'm also trying to up my natural copper intake, but I may end up taking a suppliment for that as well since I have a hard time forcing myself to eat enough food in a day.

When money allows, I will be starting a pro-adjuster chiro therapy, since I know my neck is all jacked up and that will have an effect on my thyroid since my throat chakra is being blocked due to my nerves being squished in my neck.

Anyway, I've been working on my diet for 3 weeks and taking suppliments for 2.

As of now here are symptoms that are improving:

I have moons on both thumb nails, and just starting some on my right pointer, middle, and ring finger nails.

My ears haven't had that bug crawling itense itching inside for nearly a week, only mild itching and maybe once a day, but I've not noticed it in 2 days.

I'm sleeping harder, deeper, longer. I'm still very tired through out the day, but some days I get good bursts of energy and I actually get things accomplished!!

I feel less tired, more refreshed when I wake up in the morning, although I still require some time between waking up and getting up. I also still require some "wake up time" before I can "funtion", even though I may be up.

My hair isn't falling out in clumps, now just in strands.

My head doesn't itch as much.

I am in more noticeable pain, though.

My brain isn't constantly chattering at me, esp. at night when I'm trying to go to sleep.

My rages are fewer, less intense, and farther inbetween. I am starting to feel less intense and I am not over reacting as much. I've actually had some days where I've not even felt the urge to yell at the kids. Gaw, I remember when I was such a pleasant mom







I miss those days.

I still don't have much of an appetite, and when I do, I don't have the desire to fix myself anything to eat. I know this is unhealthy, so I've figured some healthy easy snacks I can grab every time I enter the kitchen or my stomach growls.

I've lost 5 pounds!!!

My last period was only 7 days, 5 of them heavy flow, and only 2 days of pain.

OH and I've had a couple of flickers of desire!!!!

That's a start, I think, not bad for just starting the repair journey.

Reese


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## N8'sMom

Is anyone taking supplements like sea kelp, selenium, iodine, etc...
while on Prescription meds?


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *N8'sMom* 
Is anyone taking supplements like sea kelp, selenium, iodine, etc...
while on Prescription meds?

yup

I take selenium
and a copper and zinc supplement
and iron

I've taken kelp in the past, didn't notice a whole lot of difference so I stopped buying it.


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## 3girlsmommy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
yup

I take selenium
and a copper and zinc supplement
and iron

I've taken kelp in the past, didn't notice a whole lot of difference so I stopped buying it.

What does selenium, copper, zinc and iron do for you?

Also does anyone know where I can find a synthroid/amour conversion chart? I've looked at the Stop the Madness site and the amour site but I didn't find it. I'm planning on asking my doctor for a switch but I want to go into him w/ as much info. as possible.

Thanks!


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *3girlsmommy* 
What does selenium, copper, zinc and iron do for you?

Also does anyone know where I can find a synthroid/amour conversion chart? I've looked at the Stop the Madness site and the amour site but I didn't find it. I'm planning on asking my doctor for a switch but I want to go into him w/ as much info. as possible.

Thanks!

Selenium and iron are helpful in getting your body to convert your thyroid hormones and use them.
You have to take them if you are taking iron or you'll throw the balance off.


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## N8'sMom

Does taking those supplements mess with the prescription or
mess with your levels while you're on the prescription?

I ordered some sea kelp and I am taking unithroid right now. (Also
on prenatal vitamins with iron)....
I just don't want to mess anything up and I don't go to the doctor
again until Feb 18th.


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## bigeyes

The whole point of taking them is to make sure my body actually _uses_ my thyroid meds. I wouldn't take anything that would inhibit my thyroid meds, that would be silly. I don't take my iron or calcium at the _same time_ as my thyroid pills for that reason, you need your iron levels to be up so you'll use the hormones, but you can't take the iron at the same time. I multi-dose thyroid because your body uses it up in about 3 hours, so it doesn't make sense to take the whole dose at once.

Read the inserts for anything you buy, _and_ anything your doctor prescribes. I've had docs _try_ to prescribe me things in the past that work against my thyroid meds.









ETA-converting from synthroid to armour
http://www.drumlib.com/dp/000016.htm
http://www.armourthyroid.com/faq.html

and this one just cuz I love it.








http://thyroid.about.com/cs/thyroiddrugs/l/blletter.htm


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## nichole

can someone pm me with the answer to my question?

i feel like total crap. i'm on synthroid and it just isn't working anymore. i'm going to a dr tues to ask for armour but it seems like forever away.

anyway, i had an endo tell me that i have hashimoto's and to take and anti-infammatory for my "flare-ups." but i can't really take ibuprofen while nursing right? at least not long term? i'm wearing a wool coat and a scarf indoors. i had a coffee and a tea. how am i going to make it to bedtime lol.

i'm trying to nightwean the baby but it isn't really going that great. i think some sleep would help.


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## nichole

oh i just wanted to say i'm trying to read this thread and the resources mentioned, but i don't have time to read much at a time. the kids need me.


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## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
oh i just wanted to say i'm trying to read this thread and the resources mentioned, but i don't have time to read much at a time. the kids need me.

keep the page open for STTM and sneak peeks at it whenever you get a chance. Also, post a question in the thyroid group on yahoo and set your group settings to individual emails. Delete any that don't have 'RE: your question' on them. Take what you need and don't waste time reading the rest of the posts.

I read almost 400wpm, and I would lose my mind if I tried to read every single post in all my groups. I skim and look for what is relevant and keep moving.

Definitely ask your doc for armour. You should read the page about adrenals on STTM and see if you have any adrenal issues, start graphing your temps according to the directions given, and see if you start feeling better when you get your armour. Also, don't take the whole dose at once, take a large portion first thing in the morning, then space out the rest of it. You need to replace your thyroid hormones about every 3 hours, and taking your whole dose in the morning just doesn't work as well. Some people go every 4 hours and do OK, I take a little bit of mine every 3 hours from the time I get up until dinnertime.


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## Danielle13

Hello everyone!







So I don't have the time to read through all 772 replies in this thread but heres some background. I have a hyperthyroid and my husband has hypo. I am trying to find natural remedies so we don't have to be on synthroid. Does anyone know anything that we could take??







any help is really appreciated!!


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## Venice Mamacita

Thanks for those great links, bigeyes -- LOVE the letter!


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## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Danielle13* 
Hello everyone!







So I don't have the time to read through all 772 replies in this thread but heres some background. I have a hyperthyroid and my husband has hypo. I am trying to find natural remedies so we don't have to be on synthroid. Does anyone know anything that we could take??







any help is really appreciated!!









That depends. Are you vegetarian? Unfortunately the best thyroid supplements come from pigs, so that's the first thing I'd want to know.

go to stopthethyroidmadness.com and read. that's the quickest way to get the rundown if you don't want to read the whole thread. there is a link to a chat group where you can post a question. Some people swear by yoga and coconut oil. But you have to read up and decide for yourself.


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## mombh

O.K., Itried reading through some of this thread, but I have got to run
so I have a quick question.
I recently had boodwork done and TSH, free t4, free t3, even ferritin levels were all well within normal ranges. My question is, is ist still possible to have something like hashimotos or other thyroid disorder if all levels are normal?
from what I was able to read ...Iam more confused now???
I generally feel o.k. so would I need to feel symptoms??
tia


----------



## MamaLisa1

get your actual levels and the ranges they are to be within to be normal. Often, Dr offices will tell you they are normal, but that doesn't mean they are. The only way to know if you have Hashimoto's is to get a specific blood test for it. If you PM me your test results I can help you interpret them a little bit better! Or post them here if you want!


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## Danielle13

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
That depends. Are you vegetarian? Unfortunately the best thyroid supplements come from pigs, so that's the first thing I'd want to know.

go to stopthethyroidmadness.com and read. that's the quickest way to get the rundown if you don't want to read the whole thread. there is a link to a chat group where you can post a question. Some people swear by yoga and coconut oil. But you have to read up and decide for yourself.

i am, dh is not so he can take anything.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Danielle13* 
i am, dh is not so he can take anything.

ok. you may want to go to the natural thyroid hormones group for suggestions. I think there is a way to combine 2 synthetic drugs to try for the same effect. I don't think it's as good, but if you are dead set against using the natural hormone from pigs you will have to go that route.

There are a bunch of thyroid support groups where you can get some information. I personally felt like death warmed over on synthetic hormones, so I'm not going to be much help with that.


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## ErinBird

Hi everyone- I check in on this thread periodically, but I don't recall if I have ever posted. I'm looking for some advice/commiseration tonight.

I had my daughter in 9/06 after an unassisted pregnancy and birth. I had no issues at all with either. in 1/07 my random back pain/discomfort turned uglier then ever before and I saw a doctor who rana ton of bloodtests and diagnosed a gall bladder issue. The blood tests showed that I has hypothyroid. I was started on Armour and my dose was increased monthly until my TSH/T4/T3 levels were acceptable (below 3). I started making more milk and came out of a terrible fog.

I have spent a few months reading now and suspect that my hypothyroid problems extend back to my early teens when I gained weight and was coping with depression, something I have dealt with ever since. My suspicions are that pregnany/birth just sent my thyroid spiraling out of control- my TSh was 18.2 when I was diagnosed last year









My levels tested fine in August and September of 2007 and my doctor was leaving on maternity leave, so I was given 6 refills and told to wait until march to have levels rechecked which is normal from what I read.

Progressively, I am doing worse and worse though. In the evenings I am extremely sensitive to noise and to light. I read somewhere that taking Armour sublingually would help with adsorption and that some women find their results are better if they break their dose into smaller "dosettes" and take them throughout the day. I am on 75mg of Armour daily, so I take 45 before breakfast and 30 around lunchtime. I find that if I take it too late in the day I am unable to fall asleep at night.

Tonight I was alone with DD and we were supposed to pick up my husband at 7pm. For an hour or two leading up to this, I was so exhausted I could not move and was having difficulty engaging in play with my toddler DD. At one point she fell over and bumped her head and I could not handle the crying at all- it took all I had to make her stop crying without running out of the room and covering my ears to muffle the noise.

We went to leave the house and I accidentally dropped my full water bottle on the hard floor. The sound was unexpected and loud and I just lost all control and started screaming (which set DD off) because I was so startled. I then just stopped beign able to think very well. We quickly left the house to get DH and I was having trouble controlling rage at a driver who cut us off.... mamas, I just felt so awful and so crazy. We got DH and he drove home while I covered my eyes because the lights were hurting so much.

This scenario repeats itself 3-4 times a week, almost always in the evenings and with increasing severity and frequency in the last 6 months.

I did manage to call ym doctors office and make an appt with a different doctor for Monday morning. What is wrong with me though? What can I do differently or take or test to figure out what is wrong with me? Is this par for course with thyroid problems? Help!


----------



## MamaLisa1

I could be wrong, but based on the monthly frequency of the occurrence of that behavior, it could be hormonally related. Of course, thyroid problems can throw off our hormones, so it may all be related to that as well. I'd go for a complete workup and see what's going on. Have you been tested for Hashimoto's or any other autoimmune system diseases? Do you go to an endocrinologost? I think you need some answers fast....also, and I don't know if you're open to this, but I personally get a little bit easily agitated each month during ovulation. I take Xanax when this happens and I can't get ahold of it. I don't take much, and I don't take it regularly. It does take the edge off. My dr prescribed me 30 tablets in June, and I still have 16 of them left...and I think my husband used two of them when he flew somewhere last summer. Also, yoga is quite helpful with those feelings. But if your levels are all wacky, you really need to get it under control!
HUGS!!!!


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## bigeyes

Definitely get your hormones checked. I'd look into adrenal fatigue as well. The startle thing is very familiar to me.

You might want to look into a couple of books

Screaming to be Heard
Feeling Fat, Fuzzy or Frazzled?
Adrenal Fatigue:The 21st Century Stress Syndrome


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## heatherh

Hi!

New to this thread. I was just diagnosed w/ hypo this week. My #s: TSH 4.94 ("normal" for the lab is up to 5, but my ND says she generally likes 3 - 3.5), free T3 2.8 and free T4 1.1.

I'm researching and I've been reading on STTM and this thread, but I have a few specific areas where I'd appreciate any general advice/links for learning more.

I have no symptoms that I'm aware of. My ND did a basic workup at my request because I just started my 6th cycle of TTC. Last time took 7 cycles and resulted in m/c.

* My ND has suggested that I wait a month and test again. What are the odds that the #s will really change before then? I am feeling like it's a waste of time to wait, but I'm impatient due to TTC.

* Is it necessary to treat when there are no symptoms? Esp when TTC/pregnant/breastfeeding. I've seen some info online that suggests that hypo can cause issues w/ TTC and m/c.

* Are there other things I should have checked? Again, no symptoms so not sure what to do. Most info I've found is around symptoms and trying to reduce them.

* Is there a way to tell if it's affecting our efforts to TTC? I Ovulate regularly, but generally a little late and my basal temps are lower than average (regularly dip down to 96.9, sometimes lower pre-O). Charts in my sig if that helps.

Thanks for any info you can share!


----------



## bigeyes

I'm pretty sure hypo does affect pregnancy and breastfeeding. Did you click on the links from STTM to go to the forums? I think there may be an answer there.


----------



## nichole

Well my appointment is for Tuesday and I DO NOT KNOW HOW I AM GOING TO MAKE IT UNTIL THEN.

Everyday it is the same thing. I wake up feeling normal. Then around 2:30 or 3pm "it" starts. You know what I'm talking about. The feeling like you cannot stand up anymore, you have no more patience, you need to cry, have some peace and quiet. It gets slightly better after dinner. And then after the kids go to bed maybe I can relax a little.

I quit drinking caffeine a few days ago and that helped a lot. Today I am going to get serious about this. I got out some paper plates. I don't know how but i'm going to make 3pm quiet time around here. I will be sitting in a chair reading a book taking a "break."

I overdid it yesterday. I'm trying to get my son in preschool b/c I am just trying to find something to make my life easier. Well I toured the preschool and that just wiped me out. I have been reading the STTM page and I can really relate to the stories where people have to "pay" for days after going somewhere or exercising. So my husband took the kids out to dinner so I could lay around a bit. I was kind of having a meltdown..just putting my face in my hands...unable to cope with any conversation or question.

I really need to nightwean the baby but I just can't. I'm just too tired. And so is the rest of the house hold. I did have a few dreams last night so I felt like I slept a few "chunks" uninterrupted.

I have been reading about adrenal fatigue and it is going to take some time to get through the info. The idea of leaving the browser up was a good one.


----------



## nichole

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ErinBird* 

Progressively, I am doing worse and worse though. In the evenings I am extremely sensitive to noise and to light. I read somewhere that taking Armour sublingually would help with adsorption and that some women find their results are better if they break their dose into smaller "dosettes" and take them throughout the day. I am on 75mg of Armour daily, so I take 45 before breakfast and 30 around lunchtime. I find that if I take it too late in the day I am unable to fall asleep at night.

Tonight I was alone with DD and we were supposed to pick up my husband at 7pm. For an hour or two leading up to this, I was so exhausted I could not move and was having difficulty engaging in play with my toddler DD. At one point she fell over and bumped her head and I could not handle the crying at all- it took all I had to make her stop crying without running out of the room and covering my ears to muffle the noise.

We went to leave the house and I accidentally dropped my full water bottle on the hard floor. The sound was unexpected and loud and I just lost all control and started screaming (which set DD off) because I was so startled. I then just stopped beign able to think very well. We quickly left the house to get DH and I was having trouble controlling rage at a driver who cut us off.... mamas, I just felt so awful and so crazy. We got DH and he drove home while I covered my eyes because the lights were hurting so much.

This scenario repeats itself 3-4 times a week, almost always in the evenings and with increasing severity and frequency in the last 6 months.

I did manage to call ym doctors office and make an appt with a different doctor for Monday morning. What is wrong with me though? What can I do differently or take or test to figure out what is wrong with me? Is this par for course with thyroid problems? Help!

oh my gosh i can so relate to this. i am having my thyroid levels rechecked. maybe you should too.

have you been tested for hashimoto's? my endo wants me to take advil for my hashimoto's when i have "flare ups." maybe i should take one around 3pm when i start to feel that way. i hate taking anything, but i'm afriad i'm just going to have to. either that or a xanax or get an afternoon nanny!


----------



## EarthMommy80

Hey mama's I just need to jump in here. I have Graves disease, just found out. I haven't filled the scripts yet, I'm just scared... of putting weight on to be honest. The doc put me on a med to slow down my thyroid, twice a day, and a beta blocker twice a day. This on top of a split up with my DP, now a single mom, I feel so stressed and scared. My T-3, and T-4 were rediculously high, and the doc said we would probly have to do radioactive iodine... someone please tell me this isn't all as scary as it's making me feel! I read a bit of the back posts, and I have issues with angery, anxiety, depression... so many of the same symptoms of hyperthyroidism. I guess I'm looking for a hug, and someone who's been through it! Thanks mama's, Im a mess!

Blessings,
LeeAnn


----------



## nichole

LeeAnn,

I don't know much about your disease, but anyone would be a mess after going through all that. Hang in there. I'm just taking it minute by minute.


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## nichole

Wow I have so many questions. I found out that in addition to armour, other people are helped by getting medicine from a compounded pharmacy. I want to ask my dr about the adrenal fatigue saliva test. Also, if nothing works, can't I just get my thyroid removed. I CANNOT GO ONE LIKE THIS FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE.


----------



## moonlightinvt

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heatherh* 
Hi!

New to this thread. I was just diagnosed w/ hypo this week. My #s: TSH 4.94 ("normal" for the lab is up to 5, but my ND says she generally likes 3 - 3.5), free T3 2.8 and free T4 1.1.

...
* Is it necessary to treat when there are no symptoms? Esp when TTC/pregnant/breastfeeding. I've seen some info online that suggests that hypo can cause issues w/ TTC and m/c.

* Are there other things I should have checked? Again, no symptoms so not sure what to do. Most info I've found is around symptoms and trying to reduce them.

* Is there a way to tell if it's affecting our efforts to TTC? I Ovulate regularly, but generally a little late and my basal temps are lower than average (regularly dip down to 96.9, sometimes lower pre-O). Charts in my sig if that helps.

Thanks for any info you can share!

HeatherH,

Sorry to hear of your problems TTC. I would recommend that you next be tested for antibodies. This would mean a Tg Antibody Test (TgAb-thyroglobulin) and a TPO Antibody test (thyroid peroxidase). If one of the antibodies is high then there is an attack on your thyroid going on. Apparently, this can happen for weeks to years before you start having hypo symptoms. Once you start having symptoms you can swing between hypo and hyper as your thyroid becomes damaged from the attacks and alternatively dumps the die-off hormones into your bloodstream. If this is the case, the other tests are not applicable--only the antibody tests are.

Based on what I've read I think it would be prudent to test for this before conceiving because, supposedly, you can pass these antibodies to the fetus and then they may also end up with thyroiditis (Hashimoto's) or hypo/hyperthyroidism as they grow older.

Much of the above information I've read on StopTheThyroidMadness.com site, however, I have been reading MANY other sources--some of which back it up and some of which contradicts (particularly the mode of treatment).

Thyroid issues are a real challenge with regards to diagnosing and treatment--there are soooo many schools-of-thought! I would just say to do your best to educate yourself while partnering with your ND on the testing/treatment.

Goodluck!


----------



## KJoslyn78

i havent posted here in a looooooooooong time.. but i am having a lot of issues lately... here's a run-down list: (ok - i stole the list frmo STTM and took the ones i've been having)

# Less stamina than others
# Less energy than others
# Long recovery period after any activity
# Inability to hold children for very long
*# Chronic Low Grade Depression*
*# Often feeling cold*
# Cold hands and feet
# Constipation
# Dry Hair
# Hair Loss
# Dry cracking skin
# Requires naps in the afternoon
# Forgetfulness
# Foggy thinking
*# Inability to lose weight*
# Inability to function in a relationship with anyone
*# NO sex drive*
# Moody periods
# Swelling/edema/puffiness
# Acne on face *
# Exhaustion in every dimension-physical, mental, spiritual, emotional*
# Complete lack of motivation
# Slowing to a snail's pace when walking up slight grade
*# Extremely crabby, irritable, intolerant of others*
# Handwriting nearly illegible
# Dry skin or snake skin
# Lactose Intolerance
*# Inability to eat in the mornings
# Carpal tunnel symptoms*
# No Appetite
# Swollen legs that prevented walking (nearly)

yeah - and i'm taking 100mcg of levothyroxine now for... years? Ok - i admit i HATE taking pills - so i've only been regular about taking it for the last 9 months... but i shuold be feeling BETTER... but i feel worse!

the carpal tunnel like symptoms has been killer... as has raging. I can barely stand to be near/with my kids without sceaming at them.







this isn't the mother i wanted to be to them









make matter worse - when i saw my (now ex) Dr - all she would say to me was i needed to lose weight. She wouldnt listen when i was telling her that i felt like crap - i had been taking my medicine regularly and feeling like i wasnt taking it at all (actual i wonder if i almost felt better NOT taking it). All she tested was TSH and i had a 2.1

now after reading - i wonder if for me personally i need to be under 2, and what my t-3 is like.

THANKFULLY - i finally got my stuff together and am switching Doctors! I already submitted the form to release my records - so i'm just waiting on the record transfer before i can be seen.

I think i should write out for my new Dr everything i need to say/ask of him. I think i want to ask about trying armour. I want a COMPLETE work-up (using the tested list off STTM as a guide of what ones to ask about) and mostly i want to make sure he is going to listen to ME (i've heard awesome things about this Dr - though it wasnt for thyriod issues - but he was the only one to listen to the woman when they were having issues with her son - she is now working for him







) and not jsut "listen" to ink-spots on white paper - KWIM?

i guess this is more of a - ok - i'm still here - but for anyone reading this - any thoughts/suggestions on stuff i should ask my new Dr when i can get in to see him?


----------



## FrannieP

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ErinBird* 
We went to leave the house and I accidentally dropped my full water bottle on the hard floor. The sound was unexpected and loud and I just lost all control and started screaming (which set DD off) because I was so startled. I then just stopped beign able to think very well. We quickly left the house to get DH and I was having trouble controlling rage at a driver who cut us off.... mamas, I just felt so awful and so crazy. We got DH and he drove home while I covered my eyes because the lights were hurting so much.

This scenario repeats itself 3-4 times a week, almost always in the evenings and with increasing severity and frequency in the last 6 months.

I agree with Bigeyes, this would make me suspect adrenal trouble. Have you done the saliva testing or graphed your temps?


----------



## tanyalynn

LeeAnn--a good place to start reading about alternatives to RAI is ithyroid.com--a guy who self-treated his Graves' wrote it. I'm sure there are other resources out there, but this is what i know about.

HeatherH-untreated hypothyroidism is associated with lower IQs for babies. I was worried about that when I became hypothyroid in the middle of my last pregnancy. I'd do two things if I were you (how's this for unsolicited advice?): do some reading on alternative approaches that you could do at the same time as drugs (or instead of, if that's what you want, though you may need to find an alternative-type HCP) and do some reading on causes of hypothyroidism. Before I decided that a TSH of almost 5 was normal (though it could be, there's a lot of variability from person-to-person and I don't want to discount that), I'd want to rule out the typical causes of hypothyroidism (things like mercury exposure which is my reason (my fillings)--I know there are others, but nothing is coming to mind at the moment).


----------



## ErinBird

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaLisa1* 
I could be wrong, but based on the monthly frequency of the occurrence of that behavior, it could be hormonally related. Of course, thyroid problems can throw off our hormones, so it may all be related to that as well. I'd go for a complete workup and see what's going on. Have you been tested for Hashimoto's or any other autoimmune system diseases? Do you go to an endocrinologost? I think you need some answers fast....also, and I don't know if you're open to this, but I personally get a little bit easily agitated each month during ovulation. I take Xanax when this happens and I can't get ahold of it. I don't take much, and I don't take it regularly. It does take the edge off. My dr prescribed me 30 tablets in June, and I still have 16 of them left...and I think my husband used two of them when he flew somewhere last summer. Also, yoga is quite helpful with those feelings. But if your levels are all wacky, you really need to get it under control!
HUGS!!!!

If this comment was for me, I'm not yet fertile from having DD 17mo ago, otherwise I would be charting my symptoms right along with my other fertility signs.


----------



## 3kidsclmr

Subbing...

It was great to find this thread. I never had a problem with my thyroid, but on my last two blood tests, tested 5.10 and 4.99. I get re-checked in a few months, and then they said they'd start medication. I'm going to try everything I can to get my thyroid working right before I have to resort to medications. I cannot think of any symptoms that I have. I'm going to try one of the nutritional thyroid support products and see what that does. I'm really feeling worried about this, though.


----------



## 3kidsclmr

I'm trying to read through everything on this thread- must admit, it's a bit overwhelming, as I'm very new to this! One question: If you have an elevated TSH, should you automatically get your doc to test for the antibodies?


----------



## FrannieP

"One question: If you have an elevated TSH, should you automatically get your doc to test for the antibodies?"

I would because it's important to know if you have Hashimoto's given that it's an auto immune condition in which one can switch from hypo to hyper.

MD's are fond of saying it doesn't matter b/c Hashi's and hypo are treated the same - which they are, by most docs. That is, most docs _inadequately_ treat both conditions by prescribing t4 only meds.


----------



## Danielle13

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
ok. you may want to go to the natural thyroid hormones group for suggestions. I think there is a way to combine 2 synthetic drugs to try for the same effect. I don't think it's as good, but if you are dead set against using the natural hormone from pigs you will have to go that route.

There are a bunch of thyroid support groups where you can get some information. I personally felt like death warmed over on synthetic hormones, so I'm not going to be much help with that.

is there a group on this site? or should I google it?


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Danielle13* 
is there a group on this site? or should I google it?

go to yahoo groups and search for natural thyroid hormones, there are some people there who can talk you through it. Though everyone in the group is pro-armour, which is from pigs, there are occasionally people who can't tolerate it and have to go back to synthetic, and I've seen vegetarians come in with questions before.

someone here should be able to offer some help also, and you may want to try them first:
http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/index.php


----------



## heatherh

Thanks for the replies, everyone. I talked to my ND some more and decided to start with the Armour - I just started last weekend. She's starting me on 30mg, then I up to 60mg after 1 week. We'll retest after a few weeks of that. Depending on how that goes, I may talk to her about additional tests at that time.

It all seems so stupid since I don't have any symptoms that I've noticed. I read the posts here and on STTM and all I can think is I've got it easy! But it seems wise to treat it for the sake of TTC and hopefully preventing things from getting worse down the road (at least that's my current philosophy).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonlightinvt* 
Based on what I've read I think it would be prudent to test for this before conceiving because, supposedly, you can pass these antibodies to the fetus and then they may also end up with thyroiditis (Hashimoto's) or hypo/hyperthyroidism as they grow older.

So if it's controlled, would that reduce the risk of passing it on? I'm thinking no...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
HeatherH-untreated hypothyroidism is associated with lower IQs for babies. I was worried about that when I became hypothyroid in the middle of my last pregnancy. I'd do two things if I were you (how's this for unsolicited advice?): do some reading on alternative approaches that you could do at the same time as drugs (or instead of, if that's what you want, though you may need to find an alternative-type HCP) and do some reading on causes of hypothyroidism. Before I decided that a TSH of almost 5 was normal (though it could be, there's a lot of variability from person-to-person and I don't want to discount that), I'd want to rule out the typical causes of hypothyroidism (things like mercury exposure which is my reason (my fillings)--I know there are others, but nothing is coming to mind at the moment).

I checked the causes list at STTM and I'm not strongly connecting with any. I do have 2 very tiny fillings and a m/c that I'm wondering could contribute - but I realistically can't do much about those. So I'm trying the Armour and waiting and seeing how that goes in 3-4 weeks. Hopefully that will get things under control and I can reassess as needed.


----------



## KSLaura

Hmm

I'm starting to wonder if I should have my thyroid checked. I've had anxiety/irratability/rapid heartbeat for almost a year now. I have a range of other symptoms off and on. Just wondering if anyone else had similar symptoms.


----------



## Ninjinmama

Hello everyone!
It's great to find this thread. I was diagnosed w/ Hashimoto's about 7 yrs ago.
Had a very hard time getting stable(horrible doc), but have been for about 4 yrs now. Still have icicles for feet and hands. Has anyone ever found something that helps this or is it just always going to be this way like my doc says?
Also, I've been suffering from anxiety and panic attacks as well as depression for about 6 mo now. I can tell you really ready for this to be over(it all manifest itself through agoraphobia). I had my levels taken about 2 mo. ago and was told I was within "normal" range. I'm wondering if I should push to get rechecked? I do have a history of anxiety and depression. I'm seeing a cognitive behavioral counselor and it's helping a bit. But seriously confused as to what to do and feeling so mixed up. Has anyone had experiences with anti-depressants and/or anti-anxiety meds with Hashimoto's they'd be ok sharing?
Thanks! BTW I take synthroid.


----------



## 3girlsmommy

Does anyone know about this site? http://www.womentowomen.com/default.aspx A friend pointed me to it and just for "kicks" I took their survey and came out w/ severe hormonal imbalance but then I was wondering if I came out that way so they could sell me something. What do you all think?


----------



## FrannieP

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ninjinmama* 
Hello everyone!
It's great to find this thread. I was diagnosed w/ Hashimoto's about 7 yrs ago.
Had a very hard time getting stable(horrible doc), but have been for about 4 yrs now. Still have icicles for feet and hands. Has anyone ever found something that helps this or is it just always going to be this way like my doc says?
Also, I've been suffering from anxiety and panic attacks as well as depression for about 6 mo now. I can tell you really ready for this to be over(it all manifest itself through agoraphobia). I had my levels taken about 2 mo. ago and was told I was within "normal" range. I'm wondering if I should push to get rechecked? I do have a history of anxiety and depression. I'm seeing a cognitive behavioral counselor and it's helping a bit. But seriously confused as to what to do and feeling so mixed up. Has anyone had experiences with anti-depressants and/or anti-anxiety meds with Hashimoto's they'd be ok sharing?
Thanks! BTW I take synthroid.

Hi Ninjinmama,
It doesn't sound like you are stable to me, regardless of what your labs show.
There is some very good info about symptoms which persist beyond the "adequately treated diagnosis":
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

3girlsmommy,
I've had a bit of correspondence with that site. They were very nice and helpful, but really seem keen on pushing the progesterone cream, which I'm sure helps some people. There are some good articles, but I haven't tried their program or purchased any of their products. Maybe someone else here has.


----------



## NocturnalDaze

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ninjinmama* 
Had a very hard time getting stable(horrible doc), but have been for about 4 yrs now. Still have icicles for feet and hands. Has anyone ever found something that helps this or is it just always going to be this way like my doc says?
Also, I've been suffering from anxiety and panic attacks as well as depression for about 6 mo now. I can tell you really ready for this to be over(it all manifest itself through agoraphobia). I had my levels taken about 2 mo. ago and was told I was within "normal" range. I'm wondering if I should push to get rechecked? I do have a history of anxiety and depression. I'm seeing a cognitive behavioral counselor and it's helping a bit. But seriously confused as to what to do and feeling so mixed up. Has anyone had experiences with anti-depressants and/or anti-anxiety meds with Hashimoto's they'd be ok sharing?
Thanks! BTW I take synthroid.

When I was on synthroid I was never stable. I was depressed all of the time, my hands and feet were cold. My TSH tests always put me in the normal range. I switched to Armour last year and it really made a huge difference.

Synthroid is just a T4 medication. Our bodies are supposed to convert T4 to T3 but most people that are hypo have trouble converting so it almost makes the medication worthless. Armour has T4, T3, T2, T1 and calcitonin so it has everything you need.


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## singlemomof4

Thank God I found this! I have been suffering for nearly 6 yrs with this problem that all this time has been diagnosed, misdiagnosed and rediagnosed about a million times over! I am just so sick and tired of being sick and tired!







: I have tired to read all the posts in the thread however with DD,DS and gfs son in the house it is a wee bit difficult to do. So I have skimmed, I have read most, but most has been forgotten at this point. I noticed alot of women posting symptoms So I will begin with that

Menstrual Periods: After DS 1 they were just the same as pre-babyhood. DS 2 they got heavier and harder to handle. DS 3 heavier still and diagnosed with severe anemia and iron deficiency. Then after DD I literally felt like I was a stuffed pig. Pantyliners no more. Extra absorbant pads needed changing after two hours. AND ontop of all this they were seriously messed up! I was always a strict schedule of every month same say, around same time, same consistancy and same duration. This all went out the window after DD was born. I would get a period 4 days late, lighter than normal, then heavier, then lighter and 3 days later it was gone. Only to return 3 days later same thing. Then would be gone rest of the month.

Sex Drive: Non exsistant for years! Go figure I have four children and can honestly tell you all that I probably wasn't all that "into it" while the baby making was happening. I get so distracted and can't seem to focus! Thankfully I am a good actor! lol

Memory loss: I swear I have thoughts each day wondering if this is early indication that I will end up with Alziemers Disease. I know it isn't the fact but still. I need to write everything down! And I mean everything!! I would like to return to school in the fall and worry so much about failing miserably b/c I just can't seem to get my mind to absorb anything anymore.

Hair loss: I have always had thinner hair but this is ridiculous! I look in the mirror and ask myself how it was possible my ponytail has shrunk and I haven't cut my hair in over two years!

Weight: I cannot for the life of me gain anything! I loved being pregnant each time b/c of the added 30 lbs I would put on for a few months. I felt healthier, happier and livelier. Now I eat constantly and never put on an inch!

Cravings: I constantly crave pastries, cakes, muffins, breads, creamy things, filling foods (turkey dinners etc.) but yet as one woman posted way back in beginning....this all seems to diminish within ten minutes of having eaten it!

Mood Swings: I wake up telling myself I will not freak out today, I will not yell, I will not lose patience, I will remain calm blah blah blah and it never works! It's like my fuse was cut to a 1/4 of its size and I have no idea when this happened or why. I used to love goffing around with the kids and now feel like I am ready to scream if they begin to get too excited and start laughing too loud etc.

I am sure there are many more symptoms but to be perfectly honest I am surprised I was allotted this much time alone to type what I have so far.....

I did have diagnosis of hypo-thyroidism. Now this makes no sense to me whatso ever b/c my mother has this and is the complete opposite (as far as the weight part) I was given perscription meds and told take one a day, blah blah I never took them b/c it just doesnt make any sense to me!

I really hope someone can help


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## NocturnalDaze

I'm hypo and I've never had a problem with my weight. You probabably have both hypo and adrenal fatigue and the AF may be keeping your weight down.


----------



## bigeyes

There are some rare birds with hypo who lose weight. My FIL is one of them. Most of us gain though. Your symptoms sound more hyper than hypo, but anything is possible. I was very hypo and had a lot of hyper symptoms.


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## nichole

I feel completely better. seriously. i hope it continues. I switched to armour. I take it with bottled water, but decided to drink tap water the rest of the day. I'm taking coconut oil, multivit with b complex, fish oil, and probiotics. the thing that has helped the most though is giving up grains and dairy.


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## NocturnalDaze

You can also take it sublingually so you don't have to worry about not eating for 2 hours before or an hour after. I was taking it 4x a day and never getting to eat!


----------



## purplegirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
I feel completely better. seriously. i hope it continues. I switched to armour. I take it with bottled water, but decided to drink tap water the rest of the day. I'm taking coconut oil, multivit with b complex, fish oil, and probiotics. the thing that has helped the most though is giving up grains and dairy.



































































































































Hi there. I noticed that you are in Delaware. May I ask who the doc is that you are seeing? I would love to see a doctor who is open to prescribing amour! I am glad you are feeling better too!


----------



## nichole

Quote:


Originally Posted by *purplegirl* 
Hi there. I noticed that you are in Delaware. May I ask who the doc is that you are seeing? I would love to see a doctor who is open to prescribing amour! I am glad you are feeling better too!

OOps, I moved to Virginia and did not change my location. I wonder if the midwives at the birth center in wilmington, de would see you? I know that they do well woman visits.


----------



## purplegirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
OOps, I moved to Virginia and did not change my location. I wonder if the midwives at the birth center in wilmington, de would see you? I know that they do well woman visits.

Ahh, good point. I can certainly call and see. Thank you and again, I'm glad you are feeling better


----------



## jlutgendorf

Can I ask you kind women to look at some test results for me?

I just got results back from my Diagnostecs test and they've just added a free thyroid panel.

Saliva:
fTSH 40 Normal 26-85 nlU/ml
fT4 .12 Normal .17-.42 ng/dl
fT3 .39 Normal .28-1.10 pg/ml
TPO Negative Normal: Negative

Blood Serum
S-TSH 1.6 Normal .4-7.0 ulU/mL
S-fT4 1.0 Normal .8-2.0 ng/dL
S-fT3 1.5 Normal 1.4-4.2 pg/mL

When I had my thyroid levels tested through my HMO, my free T4 came back as the lowest possible "normal" before it hit low. So of course, I was "normal".

I also had a blood test for anemia done and came back with low red blood cell count, but apparently even though it was classified as low, it wasn't "low enough", as my dr said my levels were fine.

I've been trying to figure out some health issues (tired, depressed, no libido, etc) and may be barking up the wrong tree here, but I thought I would ask.

I'm in the process of saving enough money to see an MD/naturopath on my own, but in the mean time, I'm trying to figure out what's going on.

Thanks for your help and insight!

~Julia


----------



## jlutgendorf

ack! DP!


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## reeseccup

Julia, it sounds like you ARE barking up the RIGHT tree, but your dr. is ignorant (classic definition). Read through this thread and the Adrenal Fatigue thread, a lot of insite and help to be had.

I had tests done years ago and was told they were "normal", this was before I became better informed. I've now taken my health into my own hands and am repairing myself through nutrition, chioro therapy (pro-adjuster) and knowing what works best for my body.

Keep researching, and you'll find how to help yourself. I'd say more, but I'm in some pain today.


----------



## kindacrunchy

joining!
here is my thread i posted yesterday and had one response to:
my thyroid nodule that i developed during my last pregnancy over 2 years ago has grown and changed in appearance. i'm waiting for the biopsy appointment. i think i'm ok but i wanted to hear from people who have had thyroid cancer and what their experience was like.

i'm a little stressed out!

i haven't had a chance to read thru all the posts but glad to find others in same situation.
btw my TSH was .16 which is below normal range and he said it was normal and my free T4 was totally within normal.
i've been battling depression since my 2nd was born and after my dad was diagnosed with brain cancer. i had been going to counseling and things have been going well except when it is that time of the month. i had a near anxiety attack, hot flashes, and started crying while i was at a local hardware store with my family. i'm like dr. jekyll/mr. hyde during that time. my cycle is also wacky it can go from 28 days to 42 days. i thought that maybe things with my thyroid were going wacky again so i went to see the endocrinologist. I am not on any supplements.
Glad to see you all here







I must start reading!


----------



## Venice Mamacita

Hi All ~ I hope this isn't completely off topic, but has anyone gone from hypo to hyper in their first trimester? I've heard of going from hypo to _more_ hypo, but not the other way around. I'm 7 wks tomorrow and adjusted my Armour dosage from 60 3x/day to 2x/day a week ago because my blood tests showed hyper . . . I think it's strange, though.


----------



## FrannieP

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Venice Mamacita* 
Hi All ~ I hope this isn't completely off topic, but has anyone gone from hypo to hyper in their first trimester? I've heard of going from hypo to _more_ hypo, but not the other way around. I'm 7 wks tomorrow and adjusted my Armour dosage from 60 3x/day to 2x/day a week ago because my blood tests showed hyper . . . I think it's strange, though.

do you have Hashi's?


----------



## Venice Mamacita

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FrannieP* 
do you have Hashi's?

Nope, just run-o'-the-mill, post-partum hypothyroidism.


----------



## reeseccup

What I've read is that stress and stress on the body can be a trigger. Pregnancy is a stressor. I've also read that it can swing back and forth and back again. So, in short, it's very possible.


----------



## nz mummy

hi Ladies,
I have posted a while ago but haven't read any following threads as havent' been online for awhile.
(Excuse errors - typing fast as need to get some sleep!!)

I've briefly read a few that have caught my attention.
I have an under active thyroid - started premenstrual with a whopping great nodule (size of a hard boiled egg!) Docs removed half of it as werent sure if it was malignant - luckily it wasnt.

For the lady who has a nodule, I were scared out of my mind, and were not thining clearly at all - I urge you to find soem people you trust (naturopath, doc ?) to help keep your mind at ease - I work inthe natural health industry (also studying to be a naturopath) and I were trying to source all the answers myself and it drove me nuts! From what I foudn out - if you were to have any form of cancer, apparently Thyroid can is the better one to have as it is enclosed in a capsule (???) and this limits any spreading.

Re blood tests - doctors always tell me theres nothig to worry about and that my results are "normal" as they are within the range. The range is a big range, and mine are often at the very lowest point. I'd put soem examples here but my results are filed away and i'm out here on the computer! Again, find a professional you trust, with an open mind to help interpret your results as again, i nearly went mad trying to do it myself. If you want a god book, read 'solved the riddle of illness' - i'm sure it's written by Dr John Lee.
We have a clinic here in Tauranga, New Zealand which bases itself on John Lees findings. The lady I see has herself had thryoid issues, and runs a clinic called Patient Advocates for Natural Hormonal Therapy. She uses natural horomones and has had brilliant success for thryoid issues. I had all of this prior to becomign pregnant, and now have a healthy 6.5 mth girl.

Felicity (practioner at above clinic) has had soooo many ladies who have been unable to concieve, hypo or hyper thyroidism, recurrent misscarriages etc and the stories of success are great. It really frustrates me that the orthodox world, make out that the emotional stuff (low libido, energy, depression etc ) are not related. Grrrr, if it werent for the progesterone cream i used throught my entire pregnancy and still now whilst breast feeding (exclusively pumping actually) than I dont know how things would have been for me - my progesterone levels were lower than soemone going through menopause and i'm a fit healthy 30 year old!!

low progesterone is a HUGE factor in thyroid issues, along with xenoestrogens in the environment, cholrinated and fluridated drinking water, soy products (nasty), giortergen foods etc.

If you cant find this sort of info over there on the other sidee of the wordl, I urge you to email Felicity at patient Advocates. I found her information to be my god send!!!

About the iron levels too and saying how theya re within the range. Look at what iron they are testing - free iron or stored? Also at what end of the scale. The scales they use are for the average person, we are all different, so what may be normal for one, may be far from normal for another.

Good luck ladies - our computer is farily slow, which is why i've not repleid for awhile, it takes me such a long time to get here to type my novels!!!

If anyone needs IBSN numbers for that book, jsut ask and i'll post next time.


----------



## nz mummy

Stress decreases your progesterone levels drastically - which then seriously effects thryoid.


----------



## neveryoumindthere

Does anyone know if the goitrogenic foods like broccoli and cauliflower are OK to eat as long as they are not raw? For some reason I remember reading that somewhere


----------



## reina28

I was just diagnosed today and start my synthroid tomorrow. (Hypo) I do not know what my level is or what caused it yet, the doc just wanted to start me on medication right away. I assume it is not really bad because I am on a pretty low dose of synthroid. My mom has hypo too and I was having symptoms for so long...

But we are TTC too so I'm really hoping its not going to cause any difficulties. I will have to get a minute to read this whole thread, just wanted to introduce myself first... its a very long thread. Looks like I am not alone though.


----------



## brookely ash

i was diagnosed 2 weeks ago. my ND started me on Armour Thyroid. So far i have noticed an increase in my energy, and an annoyance at having to take the medicine before i can drink coffee.

i'm trying to eat more raw fruits and veggies and drink tons of water.

my symptoms have included many that are listed.

water retention
brittle hair/nails
sleep distubance
inability to lose weight
mood swings
weird appetite cravings
heavy periods
etc
etc

i think i have been suffering from this for quite some time and just didn't realize it. looking back i can pin-point when it all started. it was during a very stressful time.

anyway, i'm glad to find this thread.


----------



## reeseccup

Quote:


Originally Posted by *neveryoumindthere* 
Does anyone know if the goitrogenic foods like broccoli and cauliflower are OK to eat as long as they are not raw? For some reason I remember reading that somewhere

If you are in healing mode, I wouldn't consume them at all. Once you are healed, then eating them once in a while is what I plan, but not like I used to.


----------



## kdabbler

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KimPM* 
kdabbler - As part of everything else you are doing, I would also suggest you get a copy of your lab test results and then check them out for yourself. Look up anything you don't know. This way you can see exactly what she meant by you having "an indicator that I might have an overactive thyroid". I always keep a running spreadsheet of ALL my lab results over time, including the thyroid test results.

Ug. Renewing my subscription to the list here. I was bad and never went for a follow up lab test until my regular physical last week. I guess I thought if I ignored it, it would go away. Now I'm on pins and needles waiting for her to call me back. Getting a letter from the doctor about your lab results is good. Getting a phone call about them is not!

My PCP is sooooooooooo in trouble having me as a patient let me tell you







. I question everything. I hate taking meds unless _I_ deem it best for me and I'm a laymen who works with physicians. She's going to be earning her professorship, let me tell you. (I go to a women's health group that is affiliated with a medical school.)

So I'll see if I can get all my numbers over the phone from her when she calls back this afternoon. The big question is am I hyper? hypo? And would all this change if I stop nursing my 21 mo?


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## Brookesmom

I just started a low dose of Armour a week and a half ago myself. So far, so good. I expect I might need to bump it up in a week or two since it's such a low starter dose, but we will see. I'll be following this thread! It's nice to have a normal amount of energy most days again. And my temps are up, almost to 98.6 some days midafternoon.


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## kjbrown92

Okay, I just read through ALL 42 pages of posts looking for answers. I'm going to a new doctor (naturopath) in 2 days and I'm trying to make sure I have all my ducks in a row. Here are my symptoms since 03/01 (when DS weaned at 8 months):

progressively worsening back pain - mostly upper middle of back. Can no longer wear a bra or underwear or anything even slightly constrictive or sends back into spasms/pain
chronic UTIs - started out every 4 months, then every 3 months, until every 3 days. I go on antibiotics for 6 months, go off and 3-4 days later I get another UTI. 4 different bacterias. They culture them every time.

These are from the stopthethyroidmadness.com list of thyroid symptoms:
*Less stamina than others - I used to be able to walk 3 miles several times a week. Now if I try to do a mile, I come back and my back goes into spasm.
*Long recovery period after any activity - if I start cleaning the house. I fizzle out after about an hour, and can't do anything else
*Inability to hold children for very long - If I do this for more than 5 minutes, I'm done for the day.
*Arms feeling like dead weights after activity - when I held my daughter sleeping at a store the other day - 15 minutes - I put her back in the car, and sat there for 10 minutes because I couldn't move my arms to hold the steering wheel.
*Often feeling cold - unless it's 75 degrees
* Cold hands and feet
* High cholesterol - hovers around 230 no matter what I do for diet. We went on the Omega Diet and my husband's went down 50 points, and mine didn't move.
* Bizarre and Debilitating reaction to exercise - I didn't see this the first time on the list. If I throw the ball for my dog for 5 minutes (like I did yesterday) my back goes into spasm. All exercise (including physical therapy) sends me into more pain
* Hard stools
* Constipation
* Dry Hair
* Dry cracking skin - esp. my heels. My DH tells me to keep my feet away from him.
*Forgetfulness - I have lists all over the house. If only I could find them!
Inability to lose weight -- this one is opposite - I can't gain weight. I'm eating fattier foods than ever - bacon, sausage, coconut oil, and I seem to be losing weight
*NO sex drive - NONE!
* Moody periods -- very snappish
* Excruciating pain during period - No, but it's getting heavier and heavier, and my cycle went from 40-55 days to 27 days, and it goes off and on -- I call it an ellipses (...) instead of a period (.). Literary humor.
*Swelling/edema/puffiness - under eyes and ankles. I've been wearing my husband's socks and they still make indents!
*Aching bones/muscles - this is the worst - constant pain - I'm on lyrica now and it's not doing anything except helping me sleep a little better
* Osteoporosis - the rheumatologist said my bone density test "wasn't good" and put me on 1200mg of calcium
* Breakout on chest and arms -- chest and back and I've never broken out anywhere before
* Inability to stand on feet for long periods
* Complete lack of motivation
* Extremely crabby, irritable, intolerant of others - low tolerance to my children, which I hate
* Handwriting nearly illegible - yes, DH can't even read it anymore.
* Broken/peeling fingernails - I can't grow them at all
* Dry skin or snake skin
*Major anxiety/worry
* Inability to eat in the mornings - I don't usually eat until mid-afternoon and only because I'm "supposed to" not because I'm hungry
* No hair growth, breaks faster than it grows -- esp. notice when shaving legs.
* Joint pain - my knees and hips have been killing me
* Carpal tunnel symptoms - no, but I've had two bouts of tendonitis in the last year with no overuse or injury
* No Appetite
* Blood Pressure problems - very low (like 95/45 - top never goes above 100 unless I'm pregnant)
* Low body temperature - usually 96.8-97.3
* Swollen lymph glands
* now how do I put this one politely&#8230;.a cold bum, butt, derriere, fanny, gluteus maximus, haunches, hindquarters, posterior, rear, and/or cheeks. Yup, really exists. -- DH noticed this. Weird.

I have multinodular goiter (bunches of them on both sides) and when my thyroid was tested 06/07 at my physical last year TSH was 1.43 and FT4 was 1.1.

I've already been to an acupuncturist (didn't work), 3 physiatrists (3 MRIs - one bulging disk in neck; cortisone shots, muscle stimulation, physical therapy), a rheumatologist (tested me for a lot of autoimmune stuff -- $2000 worth of blood tests), 2 chiropractors, massage therapy (sends my muscles into spasm), 3 urologists (cystoscopy, cystogram, etc.). My allopathic doc thinks the UTIs and back pain are related but can't find a connection. He's tested me for MS and heavy metals. Because my health issues are strange, he'll test me for anything I ask for because nobody has been able to figure out anything.

Does anyone have a clue? Hypothyroid? Something else? It sounds like I might have some of the symptoms of Adrenal Fatigue and maybe they overlap.

When I see this new doctor on Friday (which I'm VERY ANXIOUS about) do I just lay it all out on the line, or do I ask for specific tests?

Thank you everyone!

Kathy


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## tanyalynn

Kathy, quick question before naptime (ours, I mean). How did your doc test for heavy metals? Because mercury from my fillings is part of my adrenal fatigue and hypothyroidism and I get the impression that my experience isn't atypical. Gotta run, kids really need nap (and so do I).


----------



## kjbrown92

It was my regular allopath doctor who did the testing - I think Mercury and Lead at least. It was a blood test. I have 9 fillings (I think) plus a crown. But I read a lot about the filling thing and most people weren't really helped by it. It was one of the UTI theories that came up empty for me.


----------



## tanyalynn

The fillings may not be your problem, but a blood test isn't the way to check for metals. Metals mostly settle into tissues pretty quickly after exposure, so for a little kid who's eating lead paint chips, it works, but if the exposure was a while back (just a few months), it doesn't work so much. Since the problem with mercury is the exposure over time, there's not a lot circulating at any one point, but it's just accumulating.

If you want to look into that, I'd recommend a hair test using the Andy Cutler approach to interpretation (more info on this site):
http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/HOW_TO_hair_test.html


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## MujerMamaMismo

Hi there,
I'm looking for some advice. I posted a while back when I was first diagnosed with hashi's and was given some good counsel.

My levels are all good now and I've achieved that via diet (no soy, no wheat, limited organic dairy etc), a low dose of thyroxine and a stack of supplements including selenium and tyrosine. My TSH is just under 2 and my T3 and T4 are looking great too. I'm not sure that I feel a million bucks yet but I'm feeling so much better than I did 6 months ago. I don't have adrenal fatigue.

I've been TTC'ing for a while now and I'm starting to get distressed even though my doctor and naturopath are pretty nonchalant about the whole affair. Mostly my concern is with my temps. They are pretty low - well below the *thyroid alert* low of 36.4 (97.5), most of the time. You can see my charts for yourself via the link in my sig. I have had all my hormones tested and was pinning hope on my progesterone being low because I figured that was pretty easy to remedy. My progesterone is great - 38.5 during my luteal phase. All my hormones are, in fact, perfect.

So, do you think I'm paranoid and just need to be patient with TTC or do you think I should still be concerned that my thyroid is causing TTC problems?

I know I haven't been trying for years or anything but 7 months is a very long time to an impatient aries like me.

TIA for any advice.


----------



## Stevi

Wow! This is a looooooong thread!

So, I've been TTC for a long time and stumbled onto this Thyroid possibility.

Here are my symptoms...

fatigue/lack of energy
brittle nails with easily seen ridges
leg/muscle cramps
short luteal phase
weight gain
feel cold easily
low basal temp
some breaking out on upper arms, occasionally on chest
I have Emphysema which is very similar to Asthma

So, after reading up a bit about Thyroid problems, I went and bought some iodine to take the skin test I read about.

I put about a quarter size circle of iodine on my stomache at about 7pm. It is now 9:30pm and I can barely see it!! The yellow is really, really pale! The directions for the test said to see if it had faded in 24 hours. If it had, you have a Thyroid problem. It's been less than three hours! Do any of you think this test is at all accurate???

I decided to start taking Selenium, as it is an antioxident and can help with my Emphysema even if I don't need it for my Thyroid.

How else can I diagnose myself? I do not have health insurance, so I can't afford to go to doctors right now.

BTW my mother was diagnosed with a Thyroid issue and was extremely obese, though she ate small meals.

What do you all think? Thyroid problem?


----------



## MujerMamaMismo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Stevi* 
Wow! This is a looooooong thread!

So, I've been TTC for a long time and stumbled onto this Thyroid possibility.

Here are my symptoms...

fatigue/lack of energy
brittle nails with easily seen ridges
leg/muscle cramps
short luteal phase
weight gain
feel cold easily
low basal temp
some breaking out on upper arms, occasionally on chest
I have Emphysema which is very similar to Asthma

So, after reading up a bit about Thyroid problems, I went and bought some iodine to take the skin test I read about.

I put about a quarter size circle of iodine on my stomache at about 7pm. It is now 9:30pm and I can barely see it!! The yellow is really, really pale! The directions for the test said to see if it had faded in 24 hours. If it had, you have a Thyroid problem. It's been less than three hours! Do any of you think this test is at all accurate???

I decided to start taking Selenium, as it is an antioxident and can help with my Emphysema even if I don't need it for my Thyroid.

How else can I diagnose myself? I do not have health insurance, so I can't afford to go to doctors right now.

BTW my mother was diagnosed with a Thyroid issue and was extremely obese, though she ate small meals.

What do you all think? Thyroid problem?

Sounds pretty thyroid-y to me. Selenium, tyrosine and iodine are the big 3 supplements for thyroid. Get yourself on some kind of regimen with those 3 and see how you feel in 4 weeks time.


----------



## Stevi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MujerMamaMismo* 
Sounds pretty thyroid-y to me. Selenium, tyrosine and iodine are the big 3 supplements for thyroid. Get yourself on some kind of regimen with those 3 and see how you feel in 4 weeks time.

Thanks!









How are you doing with TTC? I've been taking Vitex and my O feels stronger, if that makes sense.


----------



## Hera

Hey mamas,
I had my thyroid tested a little (TSH, free T4, free t3) back in September because of some other issues I was having. For over a year I've been having symptoms that scream hypothyroid to me, but I was told my results were normal.

I'm seeing a doctor this week who has a reputation for treating symptoms rather than strictly bloodwork. I'm really excited about that, but I thought I'd ask here...

What does it mean if all of the numbers are at the low end of normal, and you're having hypo symptoms?? I know if TSH is high, that means hypo, but mine look like this:

TSH .48 (range .4-4.5)
fT3 2.87 (range 2.4-4.2)
fT4 .75 (range .56-1.64)

When I had these done, I had been taking a supplement called Thyodine sporadically, including a dose a day or two before the test was done. I'm going to tell the doctor, because maybe he'll want to do them over again...

ETA: A month or so ago I was dosing myself with strong licorice infusion and I felt pretty good - able to sleep at night, energy during the day- but I stopped because you're not really supposed to take it tonically. Hmm...


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## 3girlsmommy

I finally went to the doctors today and he switched me from Synthroid to Amour. I start it tomorrow. He gave me a split dose. I'm so excited and hope that I get the results that I have been hoping for. I've heard that you can usually feel the difference in a matter of days. Here's hoping!


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## JustKiya

Yipe! I subbed to this thread a while ago, but never actually sat down to read it - I'll have to do that over the weekend/next week - but I was hoping you ladies could eyeball my results....
I'm TTC'ing (if that matters) and I've been more or less







'ed at by every doc I've gone to - the RE told me 'I'm looking at your neck, and I don't see a goiter', and even with the little bit I know about thyroid issues now, I KNOW that having/not having a goiter is not the endall/be-all of dianosing thyroid.

Anywhooo....

t3Total: 117
t3Uptake: 32
freeT4: 1.1
t4Total: 7.7
freeT4Total: 2.5
TSH: 1.90

Sorry I don't have units, but it was like pulling teeth actually getting the numbers from my doc and not just 'the results were normal'. Murph.


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## BeingMe

I usually am on the Adrenal thread but I thought you mama's could help me sort this out. I just did a ZRT test for my adrenals and thyroid and can't understand whats going on with my thyroid (andmy adrenals, but that's another thread). Here's what my abs have been with the most current at the bottom. The far numbers on the right with the **'s next
to them are in reference to Dr. Rinds scale.

12/2006 (NO MEDS)
WESTCLIFF LABS
TSH 1.069 (Range 0.350-5.50) **-2
FT4 0.99 (Range 0.80-1.80) **-3
FT3 2.7 (Range 2.3-4.2) **-3

07/2007 (NO MEDS)
WESTCLIFF LABS
TSH 2.894 (03.50-5.50) **+3
FT3 2.4 (2.3-4.2) **-5

11/2007 (ON ADRENALS, IODORAL, MAYBE T3 MEDS BUT JUST STARTED IF SO)
QUEST LABS
TSH 2.18 (0.40-4.50) **+1
FT3 2.46 (2.30-4.20) **-5

03/2008 (ON ISOCORT, IODORAL AND T3, BUT STOPPED ADRENAL FOR 4 WEEKS
BEFORE TEST)
ZRT-BLOODSPOT
TSH 0.7 (0.5-3.0) **-4
FT4 1.0 (0.7-2.5) **-2
FT3 1.9 (2.5-6.5) **-7 TO -8

It just seems as if I am going the wrong way when I place them on Dr.
Rinds thyroid scale. PLease help!

Just in case it matters here are my adrenals and hormones:
My old labs from last July are on the left with "quotation marks around them". The new labs are to the right of the old ones and have **stars** around them. Then after
that is the ranges.

Hormone Test "6/29/2007" **3/14/2008** Units Range

Estradiol (saliva) "1.7 Ok" **1.8 Ok** pg/ml 1.3-3.3 Premenopausal
(Luteal)

Progesterone (saliva) "63 L" **49 L** pg/ml 75-270 Premenopausal
(Luteal)

Ratio: Pg/E2 (saliva) "37 L" **27 L** Optimal: 100-500 when E2 1.3-

Testosterone (saliva) "43 Ok" **31 Ok** pg/ml 16-55 (Age Dependent)

DHEAS (saliva) "3.7 Ok" **5.5 Ok** ng/ml 2-23 (Age Dependent)

Cortisol Morning (saliva) "3.4 L" **7.8 Ok** ng/ml 3.7-9.5

Cortisol Noon (saliva)"no old" **0.8 L** ng/ml 1.2-3.0

Cortisol Evening (saliva)"no old" **1.9 Ok** ng/ml 0.6-1.9

Cortisol Night (saliva) "0.1 L" **0.3 L** ng/ml 0.4-1.0

>>>>

Free T4 (blood spot) **1.0 Ok** ng/dL 0.7-2.5

Free T3 (blood spot) **1.9 L** pg/ml 2.5-6.5

TSH (blood spot) **0.7 Ok** uU/ml 0.5-3.0

TPO (blood spot) **21 Ok** IU/ml 0-150 (70-150 borderline)

---I've been on Isocort since last August (4 in the am, 2 in the
afternoon), and T3 meds since last November. Still nursing, but
dunno if that changes things. And was taking Iodoral but stopped in
February. Also take vitamin c, magnesium, probiotics, cod liver oil, sea salt, post natal, iron sometimes, and b's.
Please let me know what you think.


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## Brookesmom

Shannyshan, your Free T3 is way too low IMHO. Maybe you need more T3. Has your Dr. upped your dosage after seeing the results? Your morning cortisol went up nicely though.









We are in similar boats although I started Armour for my free T3 and am still taking Iodoral.

Just my 2 cents.... Seems like you need more T3. Why did you go off the iodoral? Maybe it would help your body use the thyroid more effectively. I'm not an expert though. Do you have a good Dr. ?

--Kelly


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## 3_opihi

Hi everyone!

I was just diagnosed with Grave's Disease. My blood labs were in the normal ranges, except for the antibodies which were crazy high. But on doing an RAI the scan showed homogenous elevated uptake.

I am on a beta blocker for management of symptoms, and just went to the endocrinologist for the first time today. He said that even though my bloodwork was in the normal range, it might not be normal for ME, so to just disregard it sort of and look at the other stuff. I go back in 10 days to discuss treatment options - radiation or medication.

My question is, does anyone have experience with one of the other? He is leaning towards meds, but since I already have a low WBC and am anemic said I may not tolerate them well. Plus they just seem scary to me. I want to just to the radiation and get it over with, but he said most people don't want to do that. I know both options suck. I was just wondering if there was a consensus on which would be best tolerated and have the least amount of side effects for me in the long run.


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## FrannieP

Hi All ~

I was wondering if any of you ave heard of or tried LDN for auto-immune thyroid disorders (Hashi's & Grave's)???

I've been reading yp on it and it's pretty interesting.

This is the LDN site:
http://www.lowdosenaltrexone.org

And Elaine Moore has some articles :

http://autoimmunedisease.suite101.co...ose_naltrexone

It looks like a promising treatment for pppl w/ MS, fybro, and all types of autoimmune disorders.

I'm curious if anyone here has tried it for thyroiditis?


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## MammaKoz

I just wanted to chime in here and say hi!!









I was just diagnosed with Hypothyroidism yesterday. FINALLY I found a Dr. who is AWESOME and went beyond testing just TSH and tested my T3 levels as well, which were ridiculously low.

Anywhooo, after feeling like crap for 15 years, I am excited to have finally started on Armour Thyroid, 60mg (for now) this morning. I'll go back in 6 weeks and have my blood tested again.

I just wish all my other doctors would have listened to me years ago.







: I knew my thyroid was out of whack based on my symptoms, but they would only test my TSH levels, which were and still are normal, and then send me off with a Rx for an antidepressant and basically telling me to get over it. *sigh*

I'll write more later about my story, all my symptoms etc etc.

I just wanted to pop in and introduce myself!


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## FrannieP

Congratulations!
I look forward to hearing how you do on the Armour.
Oh, and could you clone that doctor for us?


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## meandk0610

i just got diagnosed hypo (finally!) and the doctor wrote me a perscription for armour as well as sold me some thytrophin to try. has anyone else used thytrophin? she said if i didn't like it then i could go ahead and get the armour scrip filled. i'm just curious if there's much difference.


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## BeingMe

Anyone know anything about the liver and not coverting T4 into T3, and possible liver/gallbladder issues connected to hypothyroid?


----------



## sunkissedmumma67

:


----------



## N8'sMom

You could've went hyper, which could have burned it out and then went hypo.I've heard of people doing that.


----------



## FrannieP

Have you had antibodies tests done for Hashi's/Grave's?


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## Viola

I'm convinced I have thyroid issues. I have a lot of the symptoms. About the only one I don't have is irregular periods, although they are different than they used to be. I have thought I've had problems with my thyroid for awhile, but then after I gained even more weight with no change, that I could see, in my exercise or eating patterns, I started thinking seriously about it. My mother has taken thyroid for years and at least 4 of my sister's have all been diagnosed with thyroid issues.

I didn't want to go to the doctor until I was sure it was bad enough that it would show up in a test. So I finally went in, and my TSH was fine. For some reason they forgot to run the T4 test, but I'm probably fine, he says. He suggested the weight gain was age related. My cholesterol is fine, under 200, but my LDL is higher than it should be. I have been told this for years.

I have been having problems with my throat lately. I have pain around my windpipe when I move my jaw in a certain way, tenderness in the front of my neck, a feeling like something is pressing against my neck and jutting into my throat, sometimes trouble swallowing. Plus I get this aggravating dry cough and my voice has changed. I keep thinking I will go back soon, but I don't even know if there is a point to doing that.

I keep thinking I should find a way to treat this naturally, but could it be something else I'm not thinking of?


----------



## FrannieP

Rarely does anyone have ALL the symptoms.
Have you tried the Thyroid Self Test of charting your temps? That's a pretty good indication of thyroid function.


----------



## Viola

No, I haven't tried that, thanks!

My body temperature is often low, however. My mother and I both commented that our body temp seems to run about 97 when we aren't sick, but I that seemed to happen when I used a glass thermometer instead of an electronic one.

I will try the temperature test this week.


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## lisap

Hi,

I was diagnosed with hypo-thyroid about 10 years ago. This was after my GYN felt a goiter. I immediately went on Levoxyl and I have been on it ever since. That is until about a month ago when I stopped taking my pills. I wanted to get all the meds out of my system to be retested to find out what my levels are, but I am worried about my goiter. I have never seen an endo. I never knew that rage and depression were side effects of my thyroid. Lately I have been such a bad mama and I don't want that for my kids. I am really stuck and not 100% sure which direction to go in. I was thinking about finding a doc to prescribe Armour, but the thought of it kinda creeps me out, KWIM?

Well that's it in a nut shell.

-Lisa


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## lisap

Just another thought, has anyone successfully used chiro or detox to "correct" or manage thier thyroid? I am currently doing both, but I am not sure how successful I am going to be.

-Lisa


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:

Just another thought, has anyone successfully used chiro or detox to "correct" or manage thier thyroid?
I've used other non-medication approaches to support my thyroid. Haven't tried those, exactly, but detox-related stuff is involved--the mercury in my amalgam fillings was part of the reason I became hypothyroid, so that (the mercury, I mean) is very treatable, and detox is involved. I'm partway through now--recent blood tests, just before I got my fillings replaced, showed my thyroid just a bit "off" but nowhere near where it was before, and symptomatically I feel much better.

Rage can also be involved in adrenal fatigue--stress on one part of the endocrine system, the thyroid, can cause stress on others, like the adrenals (and vice-versa, of course). I have more adrenal symptoms than thyroid now, but they are slowly improving too. There's a long thread, The Adrenal Fatigue Thread, I think it's called.


----------



## Leersia

HELP!!! I'm 42, and my very thick hair is suddenly thinning. My last TSH test came back at 6.7 (about a year ago), but because my T4 was normal, the doctor said that I don't need to be treated for hypothyroid. My TSH started to become elevated after having kids, and my mother has been on thyroid medication since after having me in her mid-twenties. Other things I've noticed lately are a dull headache, and more bouts of anxiety than usual. Are these possibly thyroid related?

I'm going in for labs next Monday for my annual exam in a couple of weeks and I'm wondering what to do. Should I ask for more tests? Which kind (T3? antibodies?)? Should I ask to try a low dosage medication right away? If so, which one?

Thanks for any advice!


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## neveryoumindthere

You are definitely hypoT with a TSH like that! I'm surprised he wouldnt' treat you.
Many docs are not up on the change that the American Endo. Society changed the cut off to 3 (ie. anything over 3 is hypoT), but your tsh is higher than most lab ranges I've seen anyway.

Is there any way you could see another doc?


----------



## Heavenly

I saw the doctor today and she said my TSH is high and I am developing a goiter but she didn't give me meds. Isn't that odd? She gave me a requisition for an ultrasound on my thyroid and a requisition to do bloodwork again in July. I started on lithium in January which is known to cause hypothyroidism. In February my TSH was 2.46 and now it is 5.01 plus she felt my neck and said my thyroid is enlarged. For the last 6 weeks I have been losing handfuls of hair and having many other symptoms. Why would she make me wait until July? I don't even know if they are planning on giving me medication in July either, I sure hope so. I don't have a family doctor so I go to a walk-in clinic and I don't always see the same doctor so that complicates things. Am I crazy to think that they should be putting me on meds already? I am going to be bald before they get around to it! Her only advice was for me to cut my hair (I have hair down to the middle of my back). Help!


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## FrannieP

If it were me - I would insist on the following tests:

* Free T4 and Free T3 (note the word "free")
* Thyroid Antibodies (anti-TPO and TgAb. YOU NEED BOTH.)
* Ferritin (and do stress FERRITIN, not just RBC)
* Reverse T3

(IMO, It is also a good idea to test B-12, estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, DHEA and adrenal function if you suspect underactive thyroid.)

Testing for antibodies will help diagnose or rule out Hashimoto's, which is an auto-immune disorder that is a common cause of hypothyroidism.

You can read about natural ways to support thyroid function here:
http://www.naturalfamilyinfo.com/Hypothyroid.html

But again, I would want to have those tests done to see what's going on.
Also, I really like the book, Your Thyroid And How To Keep It Healthy, by Dr. Peatfield. Maybe they'll have it at your library?

I've also found a lot of useful info here:
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

Good luck - I know how frustrating this stuff can be.


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## N8'sMom

You need to go to an endocrinologist. This doctor at your walk in
clinic clearly doesn't know what she's doing. She should have given
you something.


----------



## poetesss

Maybe some of you all who have researched hyperthyroidism can help me out here. I keep trying to hunt for info, but it seems like there is a lot more focus on underactive thyroid.

Since giving birth I have had a ravenous hunger, and it has seemed to get worse over time. It would get to the point that a few hours after eating I'd feel so weak, and I'd NEED food, now. My family has been shocked at how much food, especially protein, I consumed.

I tend towards a fast heart rate and low blood pressure, have a lot of sweating as well.

I am currently pregnant and so the natural hunger that comes with pregnancy is obviously complicating the symptom picture. Also I am weaning ds now because the hunger is overwhelming me and because I tend towards excessive contractions in mid to late pregnancy. So I am not sure if my hunger issues are just due to the nursing because I am pregnant anyway!

My TSH result was 0.521. I'm thinking of doing further tests, so far I'm coming up with the T3/T4 tests.

If anyone can suggest any books or articles I should read, please do, or if there are any other tests I should do. My chiro suggested a saliva test, I have to look more into how that works.

Thanks a lot in advance


----------



## Truvie

I would really appreciate any advice.

I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism a few months ago. My tsh level was initially 31 and, about 6 weeks ago, was 1.something. Last week I discovered that I'm pregnant and had my levels checked -- 3.8. Internet info says that it should be below 2.5 during pregnancy. How important is this? My midwife doesn't handle this, and the local doctor's office that I usually go to will only now refer me to an ob/gyn. The ob/gyn, in turn, knows my current test info and won't get me in until June 23. Am I just worrying over nothing here?


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## tanyalynn

Truvie-there are links between maternal hypothyroidism and mental deficits in the baby. Since I became hypo in the middle of my last pregnancy, I freaked a bit, though my son seems fine. But it seems like the early part of pregnancy would be more important, I'd push to get in sooner.

Poetesss-I can give you a place to read about hyperthyroidism, but it's pretty alternative and may not be appropriate during pregnancy. Check out ithyroid.com. It has both hypo and hyper info, it discusses them in terms of mineral deficiencies and a bit on underlying causes (why/how minerals could get so out-of-whack). I can say that the mineral stuff was right-on for the hypo part, but being pregnant takes on a whole new set of complications.


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## AfricanQueen99

Hi, all. I've been lurking on this board for quite some time, but decided to join today to respond to this thread.

I'm 34 and was diagnosed with cancer last year (when my only kid turned one). I went through the typical total thyroidectomy with lymph node removal...luckily my parathyroids were in good enough shape my surgeon was able to relocate them. I had to wean and dry up (one year later, this is still the worst part of the whole experience to me) to prepare for RAI. I found out last month that there is "suspicious activity" in the thyroid bed (via ultrasound). So my old man and I are on hold until October to determine if there is another round of RAI or if we can TTC.

I'm on Levoxyl right now and am so disgustingly hyper (.05 TSH last month) that my mind and body are just not in a good place. I've had many, many reductions in doseage, but we're not able to get my meds where they need to be. It's all a work in progress.

Anywho, good luck to all. I've had some friends that push their docs for meds the second they hit 3.0 TSH. I guess it's interesting to me because I felt a million times better then this when I was hypo. Ugh. Both ends of the spectrum blow!


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## 3_opihi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poetesss* 
Maybe some of you all who have researched hyperthyroidism can help me out here. I keep trying to hunt for info, but it seems like there is a lot more focus on underactive thyroid.

Since giving birth I have had a ravenous hunger, and it has seemed to get worse over time. It would get to the point that a few hours after eating I'd feel so weak, and I'd NEED food, now. My family has been shocked at how much food, especially protein, I consumed.

I tend towards a fast heart rate and low blood pressure, have a lot of sweating as well.

I am currently pregnant and so the natural hunger that comes with pregnancy is obviously complicating the symptom picture. Also I am weaning ds now because the hunger is overwhelming me and because I tend towards excessive contractions in mid to late pregnancy. So I am not sure if my hunger issues are just due to the nursing because I am pregnant anyway!

My TSH result was 0.521. I'm thinking of doing further tests, so far I'm coming up with the T3/T4 tests.

If anyone can suggest any books or articles I should read, please do, or if there are any other tests I should do. My chiro suggested a saliva test, I have to look more into how that works.

Thanks a lot in advance









I have hyperthyroidism as well. My TSH last time they checked was around .09 or something, but my t4 and t3 were in the normal range. So no hormones for me right now, but I am taking a beta blocker to manage symptoms.

I know you said you are pregnant, but I think the only clear cut way to diagnose it is with a thyroid scan. That's what I did after about a year of trying to figure out what the hell was wrong with me! I also had the hunger issues, and when it was at it's worst lots of weird low blood sugar issues. Like no matter how much I ate my blood sugar would crash.

Anyway, the tests you'll need are Free T4, Free T3, thyroid stimulating antibodies (this checks for grave's), 2 other antibody tests I can't remember the names of offhand, and most likely a scan - but we don't know if you can have that because you are pregnant - I doubt it. You may just have thyroiditis which is easily treatable, but it's best to make sure you don't have Grave's. Both are treatable during pregnancy and actually if you do have Grave's it's ESSENTIAL that you are treated. Your midwife or OB should know what to do.

I go back in a week for more blood tests. I am curious to see what is going on as I randomly gained 6 pounds last month, after steadily dropping weight for a year. I'm hoping that means I'm getting better and can stay of medications. I have a feeling I may have swung a little hypo - or towards the mid range, but we'll see what happens when I go in.

AfricanQueen - So sorry to hear about the cancer.







I know what you mean about being really hyper - it's by far the worst feeling in the world that I've experienced. I was in the ER three times in April because of heart arrythmias. It's pretty unsettling and uncomfortable to say the least.


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## lil_miss_understood

NAK
I was dx'd in December (I think) w/hypo. TSH was 100. I can't remember ft3 or ft4 atm.
I was wondering how to find out the *cause* of the thyroid problem, but haven't had a chance to read through everyone's posts. My ND figures it's adrenal fatigue since I have had a pretty stressful life.







How do I rule out autoimmune disorders, ie Hashimoto's, Celiac, etc, as a cause?


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## tanyalynn

Quote:

I was wondering how to find out the *cause* of the thyroid problem, but haven't had a chance to read through everyone's posts. My ND figures it's adrenal fatigue since I have had a pretty stressful life. How do I rule out autoimmune disorders, ie Hashimoto's, Celiac, etc, as a cause?
For me it was the mercury in my fillings. Read this:
http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/HOW_TO_hair_test.html

on how/why a hair test can be a good tool to see if mercury toxicity is your issue. If you need help interpreting the test, the folks on the autism-mercury yahoo group are very helpful (and if you order the hair test by phone, you can mention the group and they'll give you a discount).


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## Heavenly

They say I have a nodule on my thyroid (diagnosed by u/s). Now they want me to get a radioactive isotope uptake test. I looked into it and I would have to wean my 2.5 year old to get the test done. No way am I willing to do that! She is not ready to wean and neither am I (she is my last baby). I am afraid if I tell the doctor I am refusing the test that they won't help me anymore. What should I do???


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## 3girlsmommy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
They say I have a nodule on my thyroid (diagnosed by u/s). Now they want me to get a radioactive isotope uptake test. I looked into it and I would have to wean my 2.5 year old to get the test done. No way am I willing to do that! She is not ready to wean and neither am I (she is my last baby). I am afraid if I tell the doctor I am refusing the test that they won't help me anymore. What should I do???

I was in a similar situation 6 years ago. My doctor knew how much my breastfeeding relationship meant so instead of the radioactive isotope test he sent me to a surgeon that could do a needle biopsy. Not a whole lot of fun but not too bad. Do you know if you have multiple nodules or just one? Are they interfering w/ your ability to swallow? Are they causing issues w/ your levels? Why is your doctor concerned about it?

Best of luck.


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## kindacrunchy

Heavenly, ditto on what Sandi suggested. Ask for a fine needle aspirate instead. Tell him you aren't ready to wean or leave your family for 1-2 weeks so you don't flow anymore. I blew it off. I don't want to do the radioactive thing unless my nodule is casuing me more trouble or is cancerous.
Good luck!


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## guest^

I haven't been around for awhile...

Just wanted to urge many of you to check out www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

The last I knew, it was the MOST informative site for all things thyroid and adrenal.

Ditto on the Mercury Poisoning.

Ditto on an alternative to the radioactive test. I had to take radioactive dye for other health problems, and was bfing my then 3.5 yo DD-I weaned her for 3 weeks-and pumped and dumped-didn't think I had any milk left-and after FIVE weeks of no bfing, I was able to bf again. If I had to do it again....I would never have agreed to the dye. Never. I am now wondering if some of my DD's problems could be due to some exposure-if maybe me resuming bfing was the right thing to do. I was working with a Lactation Consultant/Nurse practioner-and she kept saying I would be fine.

Oh! One more thing---endocrinologists are NOT always the right doc to see. The above website will explain why.

Hang in there mamas!!!!!

mp


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## AfricanQueen99

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
They say I have a nodule on my thyroid (diagnosed by u/s). Now they want me to get a radioactive isotope uptake test. I looked into it and I would have to wean my 2.5 year old to get the test done. No way am I willing to do that! She is not ready to wean and neither am I (she is my last baby). I am afraid if I tell the doctor I am refusing the test that they won't help me anymore. What should I do???

NO doc worth their salt would recommend RAI *before* going through the proper channels. I would run. Fast.

I had to wean because mine is cancer, but there is no way that you jump to step 5 before going through steps 1-4, YK?


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## Heavenly

They aren't recommending the treatment, just the test. But you still can't breastfeed with the test. Did you have a radioactive test or was yours diagnosed through a fine needle biopsy? I am very conflicted as to what I should do. Everything says only 5% chance of cancer but obviously someone has to be that 5% as you obviously know.


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## AfricanQueen99

I had a biopsy first and was lucky that they found the cancer at that point...MANY MANY peoeple get inconclusive FNA biopsies and have to have surgery to determine if they actually have cancerous cells.

Why does your doctor want to skip the biopsy? How big is the nodule in question?

Getting the test is more than just weaning - you will also be isolated from your kids. It seriously sounds like your doctor is jumping ahead before necessary...and that would make me get a second opinion.


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## kindacrunchy

Correct me if I am wrong, but, from what I understand about the uptake test is that it is testing for thyroid function not necessarily cancer.
By the way, my history is nodule detected in 8th month of second pregnancy. Thyroiditis post-partum. Declining TSH ever since, T3 and T4 normal. HUGE emotional rollercoaster sent me back to endocrinologist earlier this year. Nodule growth, US guided FNA came back benign. Yes, FNAs can be inconclusive, however, I feel that the docs can recognize abnormalities in the US and if FNA comes out benign and they are still suspicious they will further diagnostics.
Educate yourself and ask tons of questions. Have you had a full blood work up?


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## Heavenly

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AfricanQueen99* 
I had a biopsy first and was lucky that they found the cancer at that point...MANY MANY peoeple get inconclusive FNA biopsies and have to have surgery to determine if they actually have cancerous cells.

Why does your doctor want to skip the biopsy? How big is the nodule in question?

Getting the test is more than just weaning - you will also be isolated from your kids. It seriously sounds like your doctor is jumping ahead before necessary...and that would make me get a second opinion.

They don't want to skip the biopsy, they wanted to do the radioactive test first to see if they even needed to do a biopsy. The nodule is only 1/2 cm so it is not very big yet but they said it could grow. There is a small one starting to form on the right side of my thyroid as well. I was under the impression that you didn't need to be isolated unless you were having the radioactive isotope treatment not the test. Is that different than what you were told.\
Thanks so much for your help!


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## AfricanQueen99

This test will have you ingest radioactive iodine to test the thyroid function, right? If yes, then, YES, you will have to be isolated from your children for a brief time.

I am not a physician, but I would get the biopsy first, but that's just me.


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## 3kidsclmr

Quote:

Oh! One more thing---endocrinologists are NOT always the right doc to see. The above website will explain why.
What kind of doctor do people recommend? I have an appointment with an endocrinologist in two weeks. My TSH was almost 9.0 and my doc wanted to put me on synthroid right away, but I wanted a second opinion. My T3 and T4 tests were all normal, but they didn't do the antibody tests. I'm sure I need thyroid medication because of the TSH being so high, but I really don't have any symptoms...


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## guest^

Nicole,
There are *some* endos that would be good for you-but they are scarce. But, I am coming from a POV, that the Thyroid med-Armour is far superior to Synthroid, or Levothyroxine,etc...(aka synthetic drugs). Depending on where you live, it will be hard to find an endo who would prescribe Armour.

That is why you should checkout the above website. I believe,somewhere on that site, is a list of docs who do prescribe Armour. If not, join,post, and ask.

Also, it couldn't hurt to call a bunch of pharmacies in your area, and ask if they could give you the names of docs who prescribe Armour-that you are looking for a referral.

Lastly, checkout if there are any osteopaths,or older docs-they are more likely to know about Armour, as it was around more when they first started out.

Just pick up the phone, and start asking nurses. Some will not take kindly to being asked, and will insist that you come in(I'm thinking if you just started calling GPs), say no thankyou, I want to save my visit for a doc I know for sure will prescribe Armour.

Good luck! You can do this!

mp


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## lovbeingamommy

Hello Mamas!! I need







I am new to this thread and very concerned that I may have an underactive thyroid. I've read the last several posts so know what tests to ask my naturopath for when I go tomorrow. However, my urgent question I have is do you think that an underactive, untreated thyroid can lead to m/c?

The reason I ask is that I had my first son 2.5 years ago and was on 3 gr of Naturothroid (sp?) through my nathuropath. I remember going to my OB/Gyn and getting scared to death becasue he said one of my thyroid levels was way too high and I should stop taking the thyroid. I was scared...I did. Luckily, I didn't have any problems and have a healthy son now. I never did resume taking the Naturothroid after his birth. However, this past Jan. I became pregnant again, easily at 43, and lost my baby between 6-8 wks. So now I wonder if I actually do have hypothyroid, if that contributed to my m/c. I am now TTC #2 again and don't want another m/c if it's something that I can help to prevent by taking thyroid meds. Does anyone have any info, research, opinions, personal experience, anything would be appreciated







I really really want this next baby to stick and every month counts at 43 that is







TIA, Kate


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## 3girlsmommy

My family doctor prescribed amour for me. I had talked to him about going to an endo. but the "good one" in town recently retired and he doesn't care for the other ones as far as the thyroid is concerned. He is willing to do a little research and is also "ok" w/ me doing my own research and brining it back to him(that's how I switched to amour).

Here's a little note of caution to those of you who are trying to get on amour. My friend recently went to her doctor to be switched. She has seen the amazing difference it has made for me and she wanted to give it a try. Well her doctor decided that she didn't need a switch from synthroid to amour but she needed an antidepressant. So my friend left the office w/ a script for zoloft and a refill on her synthroid. What bugs me about it is that I think that w/a change from synthroid to amour she would have had similar improvements but she went along w/ her doctor who said she'd rather give the zoloft a try first and then they "would see" about the amour. I just can't help but wonder what the kick back are combined for those two big name drugs!


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## AfricanQueen99

Quote:


Originally Posted by *3kidsclmr* 
What kind of doctor do people recommend?

I'd recommend an Endo, but one that's listed through the American Thyroid Association. You need a specialist that focuses on thyroids...and not all Endos have that specialty.

Whatever medication they use (Synthroid, Levoxyl, Armour)...make sure it is NOT generic. You want the real stuff.

I've heard the good and bad about Armour - depending on who you ask it's not the end all be all.


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## AfricanQueen99

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lovbeingamommy* 
Hello Mamas!! I need







I am new to this thread and very concerned that I may have an underactive thyroid. I've read the last several posts so know what tests to ask my naturopath for when I go tomorrow. However, my urgent question I have is do you think that an underactive, untreated thyroid can lead to m/c?

The reason I ask is that I had my first son 2.5 years ago and was on 3 gr of Naturothroid (sp?) through my nathuropath. I remember going to my OB/Gyn and getting scared to death becasue he said one of my thyroid levels was way too high and I should stop taking the thyroid. I was scared...I did. Luckily, I didn't have any problems and have a healthy son now. I never did resume taking the Naturothroid after his birth. However, this past Jan. I became pregnant again, easily at 43, and lost my baby between 6-8 wks. So now I wonder if I actually do have hypothyroid, if that contributed to my m/c. I am now TTC #2 again and don't want another m/c if it's something that I can help to prevent by taking thyroid meds. Does anyone have any info, research, opinions, personal experience, anything would be appreciated







I really really want this next baby to stick and every month counts at 43 that is







TIA, Kate

Thyroid functioning affects pretty much every other piece of your body. It's *possible* that was the cause of the miscarriage, but it could have been many other things, too. It wouldn't hurt to get another blood test...and get copies of previous bloodwork to compare.


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## Heavenly

AfricanQueen - Did you have any symptoms with your cancer? I have all the symptoms of hypothyroid and my TSH is high. From what I read I was under the impression that the thyroid nodules usually cause HYPERthyroid. Did you have symptoms that led you to believe that it was cancerous or did it just come out of the blue?


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## AfricanQueen99

Well, I'm not textbook because I was still nursing (losing weight) every two hours (exhausted). I had a HUGE lump on my thyroid...if you looked you couldn't miss it. My TSH, at that time, was 3.14. Pretty much all thyroid cancer people have "normal" enough TSH. So if your TSH doesn't fall within the 1-3 range it's a good sign it's not cancer. Not definite, but good.

I also started having really bad acid reflux and trouble sleeping. Both were from the tumor pushing in my airway.

Oh, pregnancy tends to be a kickstart of cancer - I was *amazed* at how many women get diagnosed during or shortly after pregnancy.


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## heatherh

*lovbeingamommy* - In my case, we believe the hypo was caused by my first m/c. After several months of TTC, I had some baseline hormone testing done - that's how we discovered the hypo. After going on a small dose of Armour, I became pg a 2nd time but then my TSH went super low, so my ND weaned me off the Armour, then I miscarried again. DH and I believe that my hormones being misbalanced could very well have caused/contributed to my 2nd miscarriage. My advice would be to check your levels before TTC and get them balanced before conceiving. I can't help but wonder if we'd just waited one more month if I wouldn't have weaned off the Armour anyway and been just fine...

Yes, I believe hypo can make it difficult to conceive and cause m/c.


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## 3_opihi

Heavenly - whether or not you have hyper or hypo thyroid depends on what kind of nodule you have. If you have a hot nodule, it's hyper - if you have a cold nodule, it's hypo. Cold nodules are more likely to be cancerous but even then, the cancer is very rare. And even then, many times the actual thyroid is fine and the crazy little renegade nodule is off doing it's own thing.

About the radioactive thyroid uptake scan - there are two parts to it. For the first part, you go in and take an iodine pill. This will measure how quickly your thyroid is absorbing iodine. After you take the pill, you then come back 24 hours later and they take like an x-ray of your neck. I'm not sure if this part has radiation in it - you may be able to have it.

The second part is the nuclear medicine scan, and no, it's not the same as radioactive isotopes that you would have it you had hyperthyroid (in which point you would need to be isolated for quite a while). More, it's like a very, very detailed MRI or Cat scan. You are injected with a small amount of radiation, you wait a couple hours and come back for the scan. The radiation is not enough to have to be in isolation or anything. When I had mine, I got the shot and my boyfriend and I went and sat in the hospital waiting room and played on my ipod. Though you can't breastfeed - definitiely - you can for sure be around your kids right away, and even during (well, not during the scan, but while you are waiting around).

Since they suspect that you have a nodule - it's important to check that you really have one! They can do this through a CT or MRI, though they won't measure what kind of nodule it is. At that point, if there really is one (and I just say that because it was suspected I had one, only to reveal I didn't, but my thyroid was enlarged and leaking fluid into my surrounding tissues) then you should have a fine needle biopsy, to figure out what its doing.

If it's cold, they will probably leave it alone, as long as it's not impacting your ability to eat or swallow and isn't cancerous. Hot nodules are rare, and I believe they'll just try to remove the nodule or wait until it dies down. But aside from all that - nodules are super, super common. I think some crazy number like 60% of women get them at some time in their life.

As far as doctors, it's recommended you see an endocrinologist. However, the one I saw didn't know much about thyroid disorders, and NOTHING about Grave's disease. I don't know if it was just him, but it seemed he dealt much more with diabetes. I've been being treated by an immunologist with much better luck.


----------



## AfricanQueen99

Quote:


Originally Posted by *3_opihi* 
you can for sure be around your kids right away, and even during (well, not during the scan, but while you are waiting around).

That is contrary to everything I've ever heard about this test.


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## 3_opihi

Oh, and forgot to add - if you are really worried. Call the nuclear medicine dept, and talk to the Nuc Med doc. He should be waaaaaay more knowledgeble about all this than a regular doctor, and can recommend what would be the best alternative way to get a look - (CT, MRI, ect.....)


----------



## 3_opihi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AfricanQueen99* 
That is contrary to everything I've ever heard about this test.

Because you are thinking of the radioactive isotope treatment that is given. There are two types of radioactive iodine treatments. One is benign, one is very NOT.

If you are given the one dose radioactive isotopes to kill your thyroid over a period of six months, you would need to be in hospital isolation for 3-5 days, and isolated from any children for up to two weeks.

Nuclear medicine scans are not *quite the same*, although it's true that small doses of radiation are given. My dd had a brain injury - when she has MRIs, she is given the same dose of radiation. It's purpose is to illuminate the vascular system so that you can get a better look at what's going on it there.

Of course, the disclaimer is: being radiated in any form is never anything to take lightly.


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## AfricanQueen99

^^^ Yes, I understand the difference between a treatment dose of RAI and a scan dose (which it sounds like you're discussing). A scan dose still includes a brief isolation (like you said, nothing like a treatment dose).

For the record, it's nearly impossible to get a hospital isolation in the states. Insurance companies won't pay for it and hospitals don't want the liability. There's an active group of cancer patients that are working on changing that, though. I really hope they do...the thought of my kid walking around someone that's capable of lighting up makes my skin crawl.


----------



## Heavenly

They definitely know I have a nodule already. I had an ultrasound of my thyroid last Monday and that's when they spotted the nodule, and another small one starting to form on the other side of my thyroid. Something is definitely off with my thyroid anyways. My TSH is high and I am soooooo sick. I feel like I've been hit by a bus. I have no energy at all, I feel dizzy and loopy, I am really nauseous, and many other problems. I just want to get this all sorted out ASAP.


----------



## 3girlsmommy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
They definitely know I have a nodule already. I had an ultrasound of my thyroid last Monday and that's when they spotted the nodule, and another small one starting to form on the other side of my thyroid. Something is definitely off with my thyroid anyways. My TSH is high and I am soooooo sick. I feel like I've been hit by a bus. I have no energy at all, I feel dizzy and loopy, I am really nauseous, and many other problems. I just want to get this all sorted out ASAP.

That is exactly how I felt 6 years ago. I also couldn't swallow, things like bread always got stuck in my throat. When I would read to my girls my vocal cords felt strained. I ended up having half removed and it turned out to be non-cancerous. I am finally feeling good again since going on Amour a few months ago. It has been a LONG uphill journey for me. I wish you all the best.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

This is off the current topic of RAI and nodules, but I was wondering if anyone has had to have their medication adjusted after quitting smoking? And could anyone tell me how to get switched to Armour from levo-thyroxine?
I've been *very tired* and quit smoking just over 2 weeks ago. My dosage hasn't been adjusted since January (or even checked), I don't believe I had anti-bodies checked. I'm also having some depressive problems- still far from symptom-free in general.


----------



## AfricanQueen99

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
They definitely know I have a nodule already. I had an ultrasound of my thyroid last Monday and that's when they spotted the nodule, and another small one starting to form on the other side of my thyroid. Something is definitely off with my thyroid anyways. My TSH is high and I am soooooo sick. I feel like I've been hit by a bus. I have no energy at all, I feel dizzy and loopy, I am really nauseous, and many other problems. I just want to get this all sorted out ASAP.

I really do hope you're able to start feeling better soon. Unfortunately, thyroid issues can take a long, long time to work through.


----------



## AfricanQueen99

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
This is off the current topic of RAI and nodules, but I was wondering if anyone has had to have their medication adjusted after quitting smoking? And could anyone tell me how to get switched to Armour from levo-thyroxine?
I've been *very tired* and quit smoking just over 2 weeks ago. My dosage hasn't been adjusted since January (or even checked), I don't believe I had anti-bodies checked. I'm also having some depressive problems- still far from symptom-free in general.









I'm not sure about the smoking, but do you have a physician that is prescribing your Armour? What about asking that person to switch you to Armour and see what they say?

If you're having depressive symptoms it's high time to call and get your levels checked! That's a clear warning sign that something is wrong.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
This is off the current topic of RAI and nodules, but I was wondering if anyone has had to have their medication adjusted after quitting smoking? And could anyone tell me how to get switched to Armour from levo-thyroxine?
I've been *very tired* and quit smoking just over 2 weeks ago. My dosage hasn't been adjusted since January (or even checked), I don't believe I had anti-bodies checked. I'm also having some depressive problems- still far from symptom-free in general.









smoking raises your cortisol. Cortisol helps your thyroid hormones work better if you don't make enough.

You need to get your horomones checked. Your cortisol levels probably dropped and consequently your thyroid hormones are not working as well as they were previously. When I quit smoking I was exhausted for the same reason. Before I found a thyroid group and someone explained this to me, I couldn't figure out why I always felt better when I smoked.

I think this may explain overweight smokers, since some people gain weight with _too much_ cortisol. Maybe the people who are thin from smoking are just masking thyroid/low cortisol symptoms like I was, and the heavier ones are adding something they didn't need in the first place.


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## lil_miss_understood

I have a ND who is willing to prescribe Armour but he is not the prescribing physician for the levothyroxine- my prescribing doctor for the levothyroxine gave me the spiel about how Armour is unreliable so she only prescribes synthetics.

Quote:

You need to get your horomones checked. Your cortisol levels probably dropped and consequently your thyroid hormones are not working as well as they were previously. When I quit smoking I was exhausted for the same reason. Before I found a thyroid group and someone explained this to me, I couldn't figure out why I always felt better when I smoked.
So the increase in hypo symptoms could be more linked to adrenal fatigue then? I mean, it would affect the effectiveness of my thyroid hormones because of the drop of an adrenal hormone.
My adrenal levels have never been checked, but my ND has me on Adrenal Support anyway. We're working on this from a symptoms standpoint rather than from labs. Should I maybe request an increase in Adrenal Support along with a switch to Armour?


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
I have a ND who is willing to prescribe Armour but he is not the prescribing physician for the levothyroxine- my prescribing doctor for the levothyroxine gave me the spiel about how Armour is unreliable so she only prescribes synthetics.

So the increase in hypo symptoms could be more linked to adrenal fatigue then? I mean, it would affect the effectiveness of my thyroid hormones because of the drop of an adrenal hormone.
My adrenal levels have never been checked, but my ND has me on Adrenal Support anyway. We're working on this from a symptoms standpoint rather than from labs. Should I maybe request an increase in Adrenal Support along with a switch to Armour?

I would insist that they test your various hormone levels, and 24 hour cortisol.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
I would insist that they test your various hormone levels, and 24 hour cortisol.

Okay, thanks! My ND's office is closed for the day so I'll phone in the morning for an appointment and to request the labs.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

nak
I haven't heard back from my ND but I got in with my family doctor today- she *finally* gave me my results from March (she only got TSH and T3 done, apparently):

TSH: 4.48 ("Normal" range: 0.4-4.6















Free T3: 3.18 ("Normal" range: 2.4-4.2)

Personally, I think the TSH explains a *whole* lot.
She's concerned about "overmedicating" me.







: I didn't see the test results before I left her office or I might have had a thing or two to say about that (such as: I'm not asking you to *over*medicate me, just medicate me *properly*).
She has me being sent for a bunch of tests now because I complained that I'm not symptom free and because I'm still breastfeeding (anemia, a bunch of vitamin levels, blood sugar). She's getting my thyroid checked also, but of course the first thing she suggested was an anti-depressant and to stop breastfeeding.



































:








Yeah, so that's that.
She's not an endo. There are no endos in my town, closest one would be an hour's drive away so she (or my ND) is all I have to work with.
Can anyone suggest a way to educate her gently?


----------



## SheBear

NAK, but hope this helps (I'm going thru the same battle with my doc right now!):

the AACE, American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists, now recommends a range from 0.3 to 3.0 TSH (http://www.aace.com/pub/positionstat...ubclinical.php)

"Even though a TSH level between 3.0 and 5.0 uU/ml is in the normal range, it should be considered suspect since it may signal a case of evolving thyroid underactivity."
(AACE Press Statement, January 18, 2001) http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/aacereversal.htm


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## 3girlsmommy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
nak
I haven't heard back from my ND but I got in with my family doctor today- she *finally* gave me my results from March (she only got TSH and T3 done, apparently):

TSH: 4.48 ("Normal" range: 0.4-4.6















Free T3: 3.18 ("Normal" range: 2.4-4.2)


Different people do better at different levels w/in normal. Thankfully my doctor knows that I do better between 1.0 and 2.0. I actually feel "normal" and not like I'm made out of lead.

Keep fighting the results are so worth it.


----------



## 3girlsmommy

Does anyone know if vitamins interfere w/ Amour the same way they can interfere w/ Synthroid? I haven't been taking a multi-vitamin (or any for that matter) in a while and I feel like I need to start. Any suggestions? Thanks!


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Not to be onerous, but I'm already being treated for hypothyroidism. I'm trying to get her to acknowledge that I'm not "optimally treated". She asked me about whether I was taking the bc pill she described and I said I don't need to since I'm not having sex and have no desire to do and results in me having flashbacks to abuse from when I was a child if I try, which is seriously adversely effecting my marriage. [/rant] Sorry.
My TSH was 100 to start and I still can't find my previous Free T3 and T4. I wasn't very together when I wrote it down so I can't remember where it is.. not that I'm very together yet.








In addition to what I wrote in my pp, she flat out _refuses_ to have my thyroid antibodies checked because "it doesn't change how it's treated at all".







:


----------



## 3girlsmommy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Not to be onerous, but I'm already being treated for hypothyroidism. I'm trying to get her to acknowledge that I'm not "optimally treated". She asked me about whether I was taking the bc pill she described and I said I don't need to since I'm not having sex and have no desire to do and results in me having flashbacks to abuse from when I was a child if I try, which is seriously adversely effecting my marriage. [/rant] Sorry.
My TSH was 100 to start and I still can't find my previous Free T3 and T4. I wasn't very together when I wrote it down so I can't remember where it is.. not that I'm very together yet.








In addition to what I wrote in my pp, she flat out _refuses_ to have my thyroid antibodies checked because "it doesn't change how it's treated at all".







:









It's so stressful. It really stinks that when you feel your worst and have the least amount of energy your have to fight really hard. I hope your ND will be more helpful.


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## SheBear

sorry to offer useless or redundant information. I haven't had time to read the whole thread, so I don't know who is being treated how. I just noticed this part of your post:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
TSH: 4.48 ("Normal" range: 0.4-4.6















Free T3: 3.18 ("Normal" range: 2.4-4.2)

and since I'd just been through the same issue with my doc (who is also not a endo or very well-versed on thyroid/adrenal issues) I thought I'd share the links that I'd found to be helpful.







good luck with it, I hope you get the help you need.


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## lil_miss_understood

There's no need to apologize and I'm sorry if I came off as snarky. I wanted to wish you well in getting treatment, also, but my nursling woke up and I got distracted. I consider all information to be useful, it's just a matter of *how* I can use it.







Trust me, I will find a use for that information yet. If nothing else, I have a new website to peruse!
As I said, my problem isn't in convincing her that I have hypothyroid but that having my TSH at 4.48 is way too high. I haven't had a chance to look at both articles fully yet, I kind of skimmed them, but I will look at them better the first chance I get.







Thank you.


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## AfricanQueen99

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
nak
TSH: 4.48 ("Normal" range: 0.4-4.6















Free T3: 3.18 ("Normal" range: 2.4-4.2)

Um, your doctor is VERY old school...4.48 is NOT normal range. It was years ago, but it no longer is...your body needs to be between .3-3.0. Find a new doctor that knows what they're doing.

I *really* want to remind everyone to get all your labwork results IN WRITING and keep them together. It is your body and the only way you'll end up owning your health to figure out what works for your body.

JacquelineR - depression is a clear side effect to both hypo and hyperthyroidism. As is lack of sex drive. It really sounds like your doctor is doing a disservice to your body. I'd find a new doctor in a heartbeat.


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## lil_miss_understood

Has anyone researched the link between fluoride and hypothyroidism? Additionally, has anyone purchased a filter to remove fluoride from their water and has it helped?

Angela, I intend to get copies of my test results and take them to my ND.


----------



## AfricanQueen99

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Angela, I intend to get copies of my test results and take them to my ND.









Good! I really hope things start looking up for you soon.


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## mingus

Thought I was done with this, but ...

I just hear from my NP that I'm a little hyperthyroid again (FT4 of 2.2). I developed Graves a few months after having my DS (almost 3.5 years ago). I didn't get diagnosed for almost a year after I developed symptoms, and I responded quickly to a moderate dose of anti-thyroid drugs. I went off my meds 14 months ago and have been totally fine till a few weeks ago.

I was just in for a physical and she wanted to check my thyroid levels just because. I wouldn't have even asked because I've just been a little anxious and hot - no big deal. Now, just in the last few days I've been feeling worse - easily fatigued, jumpy, grumpy, hungry a lot.

I really don't want to go back on my meds. I got hypothyroid from too high a dose at one point, and I didn't feel like myself again till I stopped the meds entirely. I am very wary of repeating that experience. I just don't know whether to wait and hope this is just a little fluctuation, or whether it will only get worse if I put it off.
Anybody out there have fluctuations that don't need to be medicated?


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## Chakra

Does anyone have hachimotos? I have normal thyroid levels with antibodies. I have a small nodule that bugs me sometimes. Just wondering.


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## 3_opihi

Mingus - I have Graves and am not on hormones right now. My TSH was .09 and my FT4 and FT3 were in "normal" ranges - can't remember what they were offhand. I go back on the 17th to get them rechecked. Right now I'm taking a watch and wait approach as I don't want to take hormones if I don't have to. I am taking a beta blocker to manage symtoms and it helps a ton...I was having palpitations, sweats, moodswings, the whole shebang. The beta blocker calms these.

I also have Hashimotos antibodies, which complicates things.


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## lil_miss_understood

http://www.thyroidtoday.com/TTLibrar...Newsletter.pdf

Posting this here so I can find it again to print out for my doctor. It's an AACE Newsletter stating that the normal TSH range should be between 0.5-2.5 and that anything above 2 is considered to be at high risk for anti-thyroid anti-bodies.

This might be a silly question but has anyone had a problem where their thyroid was hyper then went hypo- sort of "burned out"?


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## bigeyes

yes! It's fairly common. I think I must have been hyper for years before I was hypo. For many years I could eat nonstop and not gain weight, and people accused me of being anorexic if they _didn't_ see me eat, bulimic if they _did.

_ I had a husband and a couple of boyfriends who gained weight hanging out with me while I stayed skinny. I remember people commenting on how much I ate all the time and how amazed they were that I was so thin. I was 5'7 " and usually 110 to 115 lbs.

Then I went hypo while pregnant and ballooned up to over 200 lbs.









It can change in a flash. By the time I got anyone to believe me that I was hypo, I was carrying around 80 lbs I couldn't lose for several years.









In my case, it was a lot more fun being hyper.







I mean, if they're going to continue letting us be sick, it would be nice if they'd let us be a little hyper instead of a lot hypo. Let _me_ choose which side effects I can live with.


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## 3_opihi

Yes, it's common and can happen with thyroiditis as well.

Big Eyes, I wish I could enjoy being hyper...it is by far the worst health thing I've ever gone through!!! The heart stuff SUCKS.


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## bigeyes

No doubt. A _lot_ of either sucks.

But I'd take a _little bit_ hyper over a _little bit_ hypo any day.

And most docs will let you suffer from quite a lot of hypo symptoms before they'll waver from their precious TSH lest you read slightly hyper according to the numbers _even if you feel good._

I'd rather choose for _myself_ which symptoms I can stand.

I've been 'barely' hypo according to them and so exhausted I couldn't move, losing hair, brain foggy, depressed, etc.

I've also been hyper _according to them_ and not had a fast heartbeat or any other symptoms whatsoever. _Because their numbers lie.









_ The thing I always say is _nobody tests your TSH when you feel good._ It's an arbitrary number, and since they don't test you when you are _fine,_ they will never know what is _normal for you._
And, once you start treatment, your TSH is irrelevant.







They need to check frees, and your other hormones, and pay attention to how you _feel._


----------



## mingus

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
The thing I always say is _nobody tests your TSH when you feel good._

That's going to be my motto from now on.

My NP seems to understand a lot better than my endo that medication decisions should not be made based on TSH. When I started ATDs, my T3 and T4 were fine, but my TSH dipped a little at one point, and my endo said I needed to up my meds. That was when I got a little hypo, and boy did I feel bad.

I took 2.5 mg of my tapazole last night. I forgot how it makes me have vivid dreams at first. I had a very realistic dream about my cat dying. Weird.

Does anybody try to manage dietary iodine intake to help with thyroid problems? I noticed last night that the last time I bought salt, I got iodized. I had switched to non-iodized when I was hyper before because too much iodine might lead to too much thyroid hormone production. I'm hoping getting back to euthyroid will be as easy as switching my salt, but that seems a little too optimistic.


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## lil_miss_understood

Quote:

Does anybody try to manage dietary iodine intake to help with thyroid problems? I noticed last night that the last time I bought salt, I got iodized. I had switched to non-iodized when I was hyper before because too much iodine might lead to too much thyroid hormone production. I'm hoping getting back to euthyroid will be as easy as switching my salt, but that seems a little too optimistic.
Is your water fluoridated and/or chlorinated? Fluoride, chlorine/chloride and bromide (sometimes in bread) all compete with iodine for the receptors on your thyroid. If you increase your iodine intake, those 3 chemicals start to be flushed from your system and the iodine takes back it's proper place. So it makes complete sense that you might get back to euthyroid with a switch of salt type.
That said, I've had okay energy today and some of my symptoms seem to be dissipating a little... I'm no longer having poop problems anyway. Sorry if that's TMI.
My doctor ordered a thyroid panel (of course not antibodies and apparently not TSH














and here are the results (these were done yesterday):

Total T4: 7.8 (I forgot to ask range)
FT4: 0.9 (Normal range: 0.56-1.64)
FT3: 2.92 (Normal range: 2.4- 4.2)

I have no idea what the *actual* normal range should be and I'm wary of what hers are reported to be.
So, apparently my FT3 has gone down by 0.26 since March. No idea about the other 2 since she didn't run them last time. I'm annoyed she didn't run TSH and thyroid antibodies, which are the 2 tests for which I specifically asked. Last time (March), I asked for FT4 and she ran FT3 and TSH. Maybe she just has an issue with people daring to think they know anything about their own health.







:
Anyway, I think I'm going to kick her to the curb and take these results to my ND, but I wanted to ask your opinions first. I've only really looked into the TSH range (which is now recommended to be between 0.5-2.5, btw, based on research which said "normal" people had a TSH of around 1 or 2). I think the FT4 looks on the low side. Opinions?


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## 3_opihi

I really don't have any answers for you. Have you had a thyroid scan yet? My numbers are always a little strange. My antibody levels are always through the roof, yet my T4 and T3 are usually in normal ranges (though usually at the edge of those ranges). The scan gave a bit more insight into what was going on. As did the antibody tests...if you have antibodies, you have thyroid disease - no matter what your levels are. I wonder why your doctor doesn't understand this? Is there anyone else you can see?


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## lil_miss_understood

I'm looking.
I didn't know I should have a thyroid scan. *sigh*
I found a site which gave optimal ranges on a chart and according to that, I'm still very hypo- not that that's surprising. It's just nice to have confirmation, even if it's just from a chart, kwim?


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## tanyalynn

Quote:

Does anybody try to manage dietary iodine intake to help with thyroid problems? I noticed last night that the last time I bought salt, I got iodized. I had switched to non-iodized when I was hyper before because too much iodine might lead to too much thyroid hormone production. I'm hoping getting back to euthyroid will be as easy as switching my salt, but that seems a little too optimistic.
If you want to read about minerals and thyroid, head over to ithyroid.com. Lots of fascinating tidbits.


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## lil_miss_understood

nak
Phoned my medical group to see about switching doctors. They told me they're not doing that presently but they'd get me a referral to an endo in the city 1 1/2 hours away (which I don't want since I can't drive and DH can't take off from work all the time).
Got called back again by the doctor's office, nurse- who worked in a lab- tried to tell me that "every lab has different results based on their controls" and that "everything you've (I've) read isn't right- there is no norm that every lab goes by because their controls are different". I said, "That's kind of funny. If that's the case, why is it stated by the AACE that norms for TSH are between 0.3 and 3 and have been since 2004?" Nurse: "Well, these are the norms for our lab." Me: "Sorry, your lab is wrong."








So now I'm going to have to take day-trips with a kid who can't eat anything at a restaurant (there's no one willing to watch him because they're scared to feed him) and who won't eat sandwiches because he hates gf bread and DH is going to have to take time off of work. He's in a family-owned business and that's going to tick off his family- they always make a big deal out of him taking a day off, because if something goes down (the business is an ISP), they're screwed if he's not available.








I'd almost rather be sleeping 18-19 hours a day like I was in November at this point. At least I wouldn't have to deal with this crap.


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## nichole

Does anyone have an Rx for Armour but finding the pharmacy keeps saying it is backordered indefinately?







:


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## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
Does anyone have an Rx for Armour but finding the pharmacy keeps saying it is backordered indefinately?







:

try another pharmacy

or ask them to get naturthroid

or another size of armour and cut them down to your dosage (1/2 pills or 1/4 pills instead of 1 pill )

They make armour in all kinds of dosages and there are other natural thyroid brands on the market they can get if need be.


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## 3girlsmommy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
Does anyone have an Rx for Armour but finding the pharmacy keeps saying it is backordered indefinately?







:

My local Rite Aid didn't have my dosage in stock when I got my first script filled so they gave me a few days worth of a different dose broken up to equal my dose. They now have it for me every month. W/ the number of different pharmacys around these days if they won't or can't fill your script then go elsewhere. My guess is that some don't carry it because the kick back from others greatly outweighs the money they make from Amour.


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## SheBear

The Armour site says that due to a processing change, some of the dosages are running scarce: http://www.armourthyroid.com/


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## nichole

Thanks for the ideas. For now, I know another pharmacy has a little bit in stock.

I was on 1 grain and I felt okay, but tired. My labs said I was low so I went up to 1.25 grains. It has been 3 months now, and I still feel super hyper since I started 1.25 grains. It is kinda manageable with yoga and chamomille tea. I have diarrhea (sorry if that is gross), but not so bad that I'm getting dehydrated. I stopped my supplements for 2 days to see if maybe I'm overdosing on something, but I guess it is the hyper thyroid that is giving me diarrhea.


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## CowsRock

(X-posted in breastfeeding, tried to search this thread but don't have the best luck with my searches.)

I was prescribed synthroid today and the pharmacist asked if I would take generic and without thinking I said yes and now I'm worried. I had already seen that people on here had looked up synthroid and that Hale said it is ok with breastfeeding...I'm concerned about whether the generic will be as well. The last thing I want to do is mess with my supply. I'm blessed with a great supply and don't want to lose it now. I was specifically given Levothyroxin 25 mcg. Is there anyone with a Hale book that can look, or someone who has already found this answer? Thanks!


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## lil_miss_understood

For the most part, levothyroxine is levothyroxine. Just don't change brands as each brand is absorbed differently. So stay on generic and make sure you don't switch pharmacies and that your pharmacy gets their generic l-thyroxine from the same source always.


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## CowsRock

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
For the most part, levothyroxine is levothyroxine. Just don't change brands as each brand is absorbed differently. So stay on generic and make sure you don't switch pharmacies and that your pharmacy gets their generic l-thyroxine from the same source always.

Thanks!


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## AfricanQueen99

Kripa - I'd really reconsider and just get the Synthroid. That way you know you're always getting the exact same stuff.


----------



## Elecampane

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
For the most part, levothyroxine is levothyroxine. Just don't change brands as each brand is absorbed differently. So stay on generic and make sure you don't switch pharmacies and that your pharmacy gets their generic l-thyroxine from the same source always.

So I just found this out for myself the hard way







...switched pharmacies to save money in the spring and found out I am being undersupplemented just this week. I have felt inexplicably awful for the past few months and it never occurred to me that it could have been my thyroid or that changing pharmacies could affect it. I have gained almost 20 pounds, constantly fatigued, cranky, headaches, the works. My TSH is at 5 so I think that's not dramatically high, but it is enough, apparently, for me to feel the effects. Doctor wants it at 2.5 and has upped my dose to 150 mcg.

So my question for you experts, is how long once you get your dose of levothyroxine adjusted does it take to feel better? days? weeks? thanks!


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## nichole

Could be a few days that you feel better, could be a 6-8 weeks to level out. When I changed I felt very, very hyper for the first few days. It really sucks. I am sorry you have been feeling bad.


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## FrannieP

Quote:

So my question for you experts, is how long once you get your dose of levothyroxine adjusted does it take to feel better? days? weeks? thanks!
I think it depends also on how your body absorbs thyroid hormone.. Some (in fact many) ppl have trouble converting a T4 only med (Levo) to the usable T3.
This happened in my case and I ended up feeling much worse - not better. The stress of converting thyroid hormones eventually tanked my adrenals - also rather common in those with conversion issues.

It seems some ppl do okay on Synthroid (Levo) while others fare better on the dessicated thyroid such as Armour which contains T4, T3, T2, as well as calcitonin, etc.

I think it's important to monitor your symptoms closely after starting any thyroid meds. Your body will tell you what's going on faster than any lab work can.


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## lil_miss_understood

When it comes to desiccated thyroid, is there a difference between NatureThroid and Armour like there is with Synthroid and generic?


----------



## stephaniezinger

I can relate to most of this. I had a huge goiter which only got worse with my second pregnancy. I also have a low body temperature, am cold all the time, and am fatigued constantly. i have been reading up on some things and have noticed that others helped. take this for what it is worth but after taking soy out of my diet, my goiter shrunk to an almost unnoticeable size. also check your fluoride levels in your area. fluoride is BAD for thyroid function. a good book to read about all this is Politically Incorrect Nutrition. hope this helps. it has helped me.


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## BeingMe

Have a couple questions...
1. What is better...T3 or Armour?
2. Would being off my 30mcg of T3 for 1 day cause me to feel completely drained?


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## bigeyes

my personal opinion is that armour is better, but some people do fine on others.

I think if you miss your thyroid meds it makes you tired, definitely. Is T3 all you take?


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## BeingMe

Yes, all I take is the 30mcg of T3, and Iodine occasionally. I also have AF so I take Isocort.
I met with an endo last week to get the ok for my surgery(the surgeon wouldn't accept my ND). She doesn't believe T3 is safe and is ok with armour. I have been paying for my T3 myself, but she is willing to prescribe armour, and if I push really hard she said she will prescribe T3 although she doesn't think it's good. I am on 30mcg of T3 which she says is way to much, and she says it's causing my heart palpitations and anxiety. My ND says that there are studies that show that supplementing with T4 can cause the thyroid to be repressed, yet the endo says to stay away from T3. I do feel better with the T3 but still have a lot of fatigue and some other symptoms (but then again I am also fighting adrenal fatigue).


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## bigeyes

What surgery are you having?

Do you belong to any thyroid or adrenal support groups? Usually there are people there who can help you find doctors if you aren't happy with yours. PMing you.


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## BeingMe

I'm having my tori removed(bone growth under my tongue). They are putting me under general and incubation. I actually belong to that group but posted in both places in case I didn't get a response in one place.
Thanks for all your help, I really appreciate it.







:


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## bigeyes

ok, so it isn't thyroid related.


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## 3kidsclmr

Is Armour o.k. to take while breastfeeding?


----------



## FrannieP

Quote:


Originally Posted by *3kidsclmr* 
Is Armour o.k. to take while breastfeeding?

Yes.


----------



## bigknitwit

I am new to this thread but I need some advice.

My background: I have Hashimoto's thyroiditis, which started about 9 years ago and has progressed steadily (especially after the birth of each of my children). I am pregnant again, and my thyroid dose has gone up tremendously. Pre-pregnancy I was taking 200mcg + 5mcg cytomel. Now I am taking 288mcg, no cytomel. The thing is, over the past 2 weeks I am feeling absolutely terrible. My mood is relentlously horrendous, and I have very little energy. If I could lie around all day long, I would! This is not me. I could never have obtained an engineering degree, ran a marathon, etc, if it were. I just had my TSH retested in case it's climbing again, and I am awaiting the results. What's going on? Why do I need such a huge dose of thyroid medicine (pregnancy aside, as I know thyroid hormone demands increase while pregnant)? Why do I still feel so miserable? What can I do to feel better, given that I am pregnant (16 weeks). I'm not sure now would be a great time to experiment with changing to Armour. Help!!


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## nichole

I have a dr appointment tomorrow b/c I feel soooo hyper and anxious. I think my dose is too high. If not I guess I will be going to a therapist. If that doesn't work I guess I am going to need some xanax. I feel sooooo yuck lol.


----------



## AfricanQueen99

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
I have a dr appointment tomorrow b/c I feel soooo hyper and anxious. I think my dose is too high. If not I guess I will be going to a therapist. If that doesn't work I guess I am going to need some xanax. I feel sooooo yuck lol.

Let me know what your doctor says, Nichole. My endo (one of *the* cancer specialists in the country) told me that my current feelings of depression are not thyroid induced. Really? I never had one issue with this when I had a typically functioning thyroid.


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## JaneS

Anyone having Hashimoto's might consider going gluten free. I personally know someone who this worked for. Testing and more information at www.enterolab.com. Read article "Before the Villi are Gone".


----------



## nichole

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AfricanQueen99* 
Let me know what your doctor says, Nichole. My endo (one of *the* cancer specialists in the country) told me that my current feelings of depression are not thyroid induced. Really? I never had one issue with this when I had a typically functioning thyroid.

I did some exercise this a.m.. That helped some, but eventually I had to stop and tend to the kids lol. I will let you know what my dr says. Your endo is wrong.

JaneS- I quit glutein and casein. It has helped my thyroid and sinus problems.


----------



## AfricanQueen99

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
I did some exercise this a.m.. That helped some, but eventually I had to stop and tend to the kids lol. I will let you know what my dr says. Your endo is wrong.


I know. My oncologist tried to pull the same BS. I *know* my meds are off, but they are too number oriented to care.


----------



## nichole

Ok I just have to talk about my appointment. The only bad thing about it is that i should have got a sitter. I'm kicking myself about it now b/c Isaac was a huge distraction.

I am getting my tsh, t3, and t4 done. i had to INSIST on the t3 and t4 which was hard for me. he said that the tsh tells you a lot and none of it is 100% reliable anyway. he said for now to go to 30 mg in the a.m. and 30 mg in the pm instead of 60 mg in the am and 15 in the pm. he said that the way i'm feeling may be related to the medicine or maybe not. i am open to going to a therapist for anxiety if need be. i also have a choice switch to thyloxor in the future which is synthetic t3 and t4.

he sold me some adrenal support which is mostly b vitamins and a buffered vitamin c. i'm supposed to add extra magnesium too to calm myself. he is also checking my vit d levels.

i felt so overwhelmed leaving there. i was hungry, thirsty, and anxious. he was reminding me to get my cholesterol checked and obgyn visit yearly. i feel overwhelmed by all i need to do. as i was checking out, isaac was trying to get into the collection box of urine and blood by the door.



































: i brought him tons of distractions, but he was bored. he rearranged the furniture a bit and the dr was like wow. but i mean, i was able to put 4 chairs back so i dont see why he cared ??

all in all, i have been feeling better. in feb, i could hardly get off the couch and now i can mow the grass with a pushing lawnmower!


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## captain crunchy

(crashing the thread here for a minute)

Just got my test results back, my TSh is 5.5 -- which is a big improvement from 9.99, then 6.68 which is what it was a couple of years ago when I began treating myself naturally (without medication)... Obviously it is not completely under control and I am grateful that my doctor does *not* think that is normal range (some do!!).

Still debating the Armour, but I think I have made my peace with it.

I am wondering if the stronger my adrenals get (this is what I have been working on, that and more recently, my PCOS which is why I think my thyroid is working better now) if I could someday have an actually healthy thyroid with no medication?

Hmm..


----------



## BeingMe

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BeingMe* 
I usually am on the Adrenal thread but I thought you mama's could help me sort this out. I just did a ZRT test for my adrenals and thyroid and can't understand whats going on with my thyroid (andmy adrenals, but that's another thread). Here's what my abs have been with the most current at the bottom. The far numbers on the right with the **'s next
to them are in reference to Dr. Rinds scale.

12/2006 (NO MEDS)
WESTCLIFF LABS
TSH 1.069 (Range 0.350-5.50) **-2
FT4 0.99 (Range 0.80-1.80) **-3
FT3 2.7 (Range 2.3-4.2) **-3

07/2007 (NO MEDS)
WESTCLIFF LABS
TSH 2.894 (03.50-5.50) **+3
FT3 2.4 (2.3-4.2) **-5

11/2007 (ON ADRENALS, IODORAL, MAYBE T3 MEDS BUT JUST STARTED IF SO)
QUEST LABS
TSH 2.18 (0.40-4.50) **+1
FT3 2.46 (2.30-4.20) **-5

03/2008 (ON ISOCORT, IODORAL AND T3, BUT STOPPED ADRENAL FOR 4 WEEKS
BEFORE TEST)
ZRT-BLOODSPOT
TSH 0.7 (0.5-3.0) **-4
FT4 1.0 (0.7-2.5) **-2
FT3 1.9 (2.5-6.5) **-7 TO -8

It just seems as if I am going the wrong way when I place them on Dr.
Rinds thyroid scale. PLease help!

Just in case it matters here are my adrenals and hormones:
My old labs from last July are on the left with "quotation marks around them". The new labs are to the right of the old ones and have **stars** around them. Then after
that is the ranges.

Hormone Test "6/29/2007" **3/14/2008** Units Range

Estradiol (saliva) "1.7 Ok" **1.8 Ok** pg/ml 1.3-3.3 Premenopausal
(Luteal)

Progesterone (saliva) "63 L" **49 L** pg/ml 75-270 Premenopausal
(Luteal)

Ratio: Pg/E2 (saliva) "37 L" **27 L** Optimal: 100-500 when E2 1.3-

Testosterone (saliva) "43 Ok" **31 Ok** pg/ml 16-55 (Age Dependent)

DHEAS (saliva) "3.7 Ok" **5.5 Ok** ng/ml 2-23 (Age Dependent)

Cortisol Morning (saliva) "3.4 L" **7.8 Ok** ng/ml 3.7-9.5

Cortisol Noon (saliva)"no old" **0.8 L** ng/ml 1.2-3.0

Cortisol Evening (saliva)"no old" **1.9 Ok** ng/ml 0.6-1.9

Cortisol Night (saliva) "0.1 L" **0.3 L** ng/ml 0.4-1.0

>>>>

Free T4 (blood spot) **1.0 Ok** ng/dL 0.7-2.5

Free T3 (blood spot) **1.9 L** pg/ml 2.5-6.5

TSH (blood spot) **0.7 Ok** uU/ml 0.5-3.0

TPO (blood spot) **21 Ok** IU/ml 0-150 (70-150 borderline)

---I've been on Isocort since last August (4 in the am, 2 in the
afternoon), and T3 meds since last November. Still nursing, but
dunno if that changes things. And was taking Iodoral but stopped in
February. Also take vitamin c, magnesium, probiotics, cod liver oil, sea salt, post natal, iron sometimes, and b's.
Please let me know what you think.

Here are my new labs, please tell me what you think. Putting it all out there in case something matters.

TEST--------------VALUE---------RANGE
*WBC-------------6.8------------4.0-11.0
*RBC--------------4.39----------3.80-5.10
*Hemoglobin-----12.7----------11.3-15.5
*Hematocrit------38.1-----------35.5-47.0
*MCV--------------87-------------81-102
*MCH--------------28.9----------27.0-35.0
*MCHC------------33.4-----------31.0-37.0
*RDW-------------13.5-----------11.5-14.5
*PLATELET CT----231------------150-450

CORTISOL AM(blood)-----17.8-----------4.3-22.4

C-PEPTIDE---------1.03----------0.81-3.85

MAGNESIUM-----------1.8------------1.7-2.8

TRIGLYCERIDES---------38--------10-150
CHOLESTEROL-----------137-------133-199
HDL-----------------------68---------40-75
CHOLESTEROL/HDL RATIO-----2.0
LDL(CALC)---------------61----------57-100
VLDL(CALC)-------------7.6---------6.0-35.0
LDL/HDL RATIO---------0.9---------0.5-3.0

FASTING
GLUCOSE----------------76-----------65-99
BUN----------------------17-----------6-18
CREATENINE------------0.6----------0.6-1.4
BUN/CREATENINE------28-----------6-25 **HIGH**
SODIUM-----------------142----------131-150
POTASSIUM-------------3.6-----------3.5-5.5
CHLORIDE--------------103-----------95-108
BICARBONATE----------26------------21-31
OSMOLALITY SERUM---294-----------278-305
CALCIUM----------------9.4------------8.5-10.6
IONIZED CALCIUM-----4.2------------3.9-4.7
BILIRUBIN, TOTAL-----0.7------------0.1-1.4
AST/SGOT---------------15-------------0-48
ALT/SGPT----------------13------------0-52
ALKALINE PHOS.--------37------------30-130
TOTAL PROTEIN---------6.9------------6.0-8.5
ALBUMIN-----------------4.5------------3.5-5.0
GLOBUMIN---------------2.4------------1.8-3.8
A/G RATIO---------------1.9-------------1.1-2.5

TOTAL IRON-------------89---------------34-182

IRON BINDING CAPACITY, Unsat.----180-----130-375
IRON BINDING CAPACITY--------------269-----245-400

%SATURATION (CALC)------------33---------20-55

FERRITIN---------------22---------------------10-295

VITAMIN B12----------1190-----------210-925 ***HIGH**

PROLACTIN------------4.0------------2.8-29.9

FREE T4----------------1.12-----------0.80-1.80

FREE T3----------------2.4-------------2.3-4.2

TSH, 3RD GEN---------0.114--------0.350-5.50 **LOW**

T3 TOTAL--------------69.0----------80.0-200.0 **EXTRA LOW**
(results confirmed by repeat analysis)

REVERSE T3-----------548------------90-350 **HIGH**

ACTH-------------------22-------------9-46

LH----------------------11.41
midcycle------------8.7-76.3

FSH--------------------5.0
midcycle----------3.4-33.4

FOLIC ACID (FOLATE)------19.58-------2.60-16.00 **HIGH**

VITAMIN D, 25 HYDROXY------29.5-------31-100 **LOW**
10-30=VITAMIN D INSUFFIENCY
--I do go in the sun and also take 1 tsp CLO everyday

Please let me know what you think. I am on 30mcg of T3, which I stopped 3 days before the test, and take 6 Isocort each day. I occasionally take a b-complex, but it's not a high one. I take 1 tsp of CLO each day, but still my Vitamin D is low, and I have had plenty of sub lately and even in the winter I try to go out 15 min each day, plus I live in So.Ca. The Reverse T3 has me puzzled along with the other thyroid numbers. Please share your thoughts


----------



## AfricanQueen99

Nichole - I'm sorry to hear you didn't get what you needed from your appointment. It can all be so disappointing.

I also had to start leaving my daughter with someone else. I found that I was so focused on her not mucking up the office that I couldn't focus on what was being said to me. Another thing I try to do is take my husband (but, really, anybody would work) with me to the appointments...we figure four ears will hear more than two.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *captain crunchy* 
(crashing the thread here for a minute)

Just got my test results back, my TSh is 5.5 -- which is a big improvement from 9.99, then 6.68 which is what it was a couple of years ago when I began treating myself naturally (without medication)... Obviously it is not completely under control and I am grateful that my doctor does *not* think that is normal range (some do!!).

Still debating the Armour, but I think I have made my peace with it.

I am wondering if the stronger my adrenals get (this is what I have been working on, that and more recently, my PCOS which is why I think my thyroid is working better now) if I could someday have an actually healthy thyroid with no medication?

Hmm..

I've heard of this, but I think it's _extremely_ rare and only possible if you don't have a pituitary gland that is shot. I think mine is, so I'll always have to take thyroid hormones.









How did you do it?


----------



## captain crunchy

Wow, a combination of things. I think treating my underlying stress/adrenal issues were key (still have a long way to go). Eating much healthier, dropping soy, supplementation, exercise, positive thinking, prayer, stopping flouride (as much as I am aware of that is)... and (more recently) PCOS diet -- just diagnosed -- stopping all caffeine, quitting smoking some months back, keeping my thyroid warmed (I keep a scarf on in the house most days when no one is around, which is kind of funny in the summer but has been shown to help thyroid function) -- just a lot of little things.

It might just be a fluke but from 9.99 to 5.5 all naturally is pretty cool to me.

The thing is, all my symptoms have disappeared except a bit of dry skin around my nose and a reeeeeeeeeallly long period last month which may also have been PCOS related... so I dunno what's going on







.

Regardless, 5.5 is still low, or high, or whatever







so I will probably begin the Armour by the end of the month. Still making peace with it.


----------



## bigeyes

I think dropping soy is huge. The fact that soy has infiltrated nearly all of our food sources, the addition of flouride to our water, and chlorine rinses on produce are responsible for the majority of thyroid disorders, imo.

Most people have no idea that eating out and buying packaged foods means they eat soy several times a day.


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## kindacrunchy

Hello, bigeyes, i see you're mood hasn't changed








So what is the deal with soy and thyroid anyway? I have a nodule that can produce more hormone. So I can have a hyper issue not a hypo. Educate me on the soy thing, please!


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kindacrunchy* 
Hello, bigeyes, i see you are still bitchy









It's a constant thing.

I heard that if I change it I can't get it back because it's no longer available.


----------



## nichole

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AfricanQueen99* 
Nichole - I'm sorry to hear you didn't get what you needed from your appointment. It can all be so disappointing.

I also had to start leaving my daughter with someone else. I found that I was so focused on her not mucking up the office that I couldn't focus on what was being said to me. Another thing I try to do is take my husband (but, really, anybody would work) with me to the appointments...we figure four ears will hear more than two.

Hey there. I did get what I needed from the appointment. I just kinda had to insist.


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## nichole

captain crunchy= that is amazing!!!


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## bigknitwit

Just a quick update: I got my thyroid test results back, and my levels are now balanced (endo did the full panel, not just tsh). She did tell me that some people who require high quantities of thyroid hormone may have another autoimmune process going on, affecting the absorption of B12. So my B12 levels were checked, along with that particular antibody. In the mean time, my pregnancy bloodwork came back, and it turns out I am a little anemic (low hematocrit). So, I'm wondering if that's been the source of my tiredness problems. I am focussing on more iron in my diet, and hoping for an improvement. I am also supplementing.

I thought the tidbit about needing very high thyroid hormone replacement might be of interest to others.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigknitwit* 
Just a quick update: I got my thyroid test results back, and my levels are now balanced (endo did the full panel, not just tsh). She did tell me that some people who require high quantities of thyroid hormone may have another autoimmune process going on, affecting the absorption of B12. So my B12 levels were checked, along with that particular antibody. In the mean time, my pregnancy bloodwork came back, and it turns out I am a little anemic (low hematocrit). So, I'm wondering if that's been the source of my tiredness problems. I am focussing on more iron in my diet, and hoping for an improvement. I am also supplementing.

I thought the tidbit about needing very high thyroid hormone replacement might be of interest to others.

A lot of the women in my thyroid group have found that they need a pretty high dose of thyroid hormones, much more than any endo was willing to prescribe going by TSH only.


----------



## jenji

brand new to this thread. I have skimmed through, but it's kind of info overload!

I was diagnosed 2 years ago (25yo) with hashimoto's and a pituitary tumor that caused me to produce too much prolactin.
thyroid is under control with synthroid (88mcg daily) and for the pituitary I was taking Cabergoline until PG and it's actually improving since PG without medicine.

*my question is what are some good sources of info on controlling thyroid with diet?*I've read a couple books on it, but nothing that has any clear connections between specific dietary changes and thyroid


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## 3kidsclmr

Just went to see an endocrinologist today. My TSH has steadily climbed to 8.36, and I'm actually o.k. with the fact that I need to take meds. However, when I asked about Armour, he told me that your body makes T3 from the T4 so that using something like Armour might introduce more T3 than is needed in the system and cause things to be out of whack. He also said that my high TSH has nothing to do with the irritability I've been feeling over the past few months, since I have enough thyroid hormone floating around in my system (I have normal T3 and T4/free T4 levels), so now I'm thinking I should start an antidepressant along with the T4 hormone he prescribed. I think maybe I'm o.k. with just taking the levothyroxine since I really don't have any symptoms of hypothyroidism (other than the irritability which I guess is not necessarily related), but not sure if I should seek another opinion or maybe just see how I feel on the T4 med.


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## llnmaw

Not yet diagnosed with anything but just received my thyroid biopsy results and was told that it was negative (no cancer). I am to follow up with my nurse practitioner next week to discuss.

The medical assistant told me over the phone today that the course of action is labs again (current ones were 'normal') in 6 mo and new u/s in 1yr. That sounded fine with me...but she also told me that I'd not be put on meds...which did not sound fine with me! I cannot continue to live like this. Originally my hcp was going to prescribe synthroid based on my symptoms but wanted to get an u/s to look at thyroid before meds. So I had it...discovered the nodule and now we will do nothing about none of it?

I feel as though I have 8million questions!

I'll only ask a few.

Should I ask to be referred to an endocrinologist? (HMO...blech)

Why would my thyroid suddenly at the age of 41 become grossly enlarged and have a 3.6cm nodule on it? I did have my second baby 16 months ago and the enlarged thyroid was palpated in January and scanned a month or so ago.

And why would we think that nothing needs to be done? Does nothing need to be done? MY hcp is aware of my symptoms which are the following:

Fatigue - she used the term malaise which I nearly screamed YES to. NO amount of sleep is enough sleep
Hair loss
Unstable moods - very easily frustrated and angry and minor things. Slight depression.
Hungry all the time - belly growling hunger at times
Dramatic weight gain! I'm overweight already, but have packed on 45 lbs since giving birth when I've hardly altered my diet (i actually lost 25 lbs during my preg.) or my walking regime.
Difficulty getting to sleep but average 6-7hrs. a night
Odd periods. Relatively regular though increasingly closer together. A really slow start to my period if that makes any sense.

I've had most of these symptoms since giving birth to dd but chalked it up to pp stuff....even in Jan I was still rather sleep deprived and figured it was due to that. But now...and for 3 months or so dd sleeps all night and I still need a 2-3 hour nap every day!

As a side note I get gest. diabetes with my pregnancies and I've been checking my blood sugar for the heck of it. My fasting is always over 100, often 112 or so. Isn't that high? My after meals #'s are great, often well below where they wanted me during my pregnancy. Could this be a diabetes thing along with a thyroid thing?

So...the big question is, with the info I've given, what would your next step be and what would you be discussing with your hcp? BTW...I'm still bf dd and plan/desire to continue.

Many thanks!

~L.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *3kidsclmr* 
Just went to see an endocrinologist today. My TSH has steadily climbed to 8.36, and I'm actually o.k. with the fact that I need to take meds. However, when I asked about Armour, he told me that your body makes T3 from the T4 so that using something like Armour might introduce more T3 than is needed in the system and cause things to be out of whack. He also said that my high TSH has nothing to do with the irritability I've been feeling over the past few months, since I have enough thyroid hormone floating around in my system (I have normal T3 and T4/free T4 levels), so now I'm thinking I should start an antidepressant along with the T4 hormone he prescribed. I think maybe I'm o.k. with just taking the levothyroxine since I really don't have any symptoms of hypothyroidism (other than the irritability which I guess is not necessarily related), but not sure if I should seek another opinion or maybe just see how I feel on the T4 med.

Your endo is full of crap. Mood swings and irritability are a big hypo symptom that some of us only got relief from by switching to armour, and that _too much t3_ is a big load they try to sell you to keep you on synthetics and antidepressants. Have you googled top docs? Gone to stopthethyroidmadness.com or joined any thyroid groups? A lot of us have found that antidepressants make your thyroid problem worse (some antidepressants are processed with chlorine or fluoride in manufacturing which some of us believe further depresses your thyroid function) and the side effects from them make the symptoms such as exhaustion _much_ worse.


----------



## BeingMe

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BeingMe* 
Here are my new labs, please tell me what you think. Putting it all out there in case something matters.

TEST--------------VALUE---------RANGE
*WBC-------------6.8------------4.0-11.0
*RBC--------------4.39----------3.80-5.10
*Hemoglobin-----12.7----------11.3-15.5
*Hematocrit------38.1-----------35.5-47.0
*MCV--------------87-------------81-102
*MCH--------------28.9----------27.0-35.0
*MCHC------------33.4-----------31.0-37.0
*RDW-------------13.5-----------11.5-14.5
*PLATELET CT----231------------150-450

CORTISOL AM(blood)-----17.8-----------4.3-22.4

C-PEPTIDE---------1.03----------0.81-3.85

MAGNESIUM-----------1.8------------1.7-2.8

TRIGLYCERIDES---------38--------10-150
CHOLESTEROL-----------137-------133-199
HDL-----------------------68---------40-75
CHOLESTEROL/HDL RATIO-----2.0
LDL(CALC)---------------61----------57-100
VLDL(CALC)-------------7.6---------6.0-35.0
LDL/HDL RATIO---------0.9---------0.5-3.0

FASTING
GLUCOSE----------------76-----------65-99
BUN----------------------17-----------6-18
CREATENINE------------0.6----------0.6-1.4
BUN/CREATENINE------28-----------6-25 **HIGH**
SODIUM-----------------142----------131-150
POTASSIUM-------------3.6-----------3.5-5.5
CHLORIDE--------------103-----------95-108
BICARBONATE----------26------------21-31
OSMOLALITY SERUM---294-----------278-305
CALCIUM----------------9.4------------8.5-10.6
IONIZED CALCIUM-----4.2------------3.9-4.7
BILIRUBIN, TOTAL-----0.7------------0.1-1.4
AST/SGOT---------------15-------------0-48
ALT/SGPT----------------13------------0-52
ALKALINE PHOS.--------37------------30-130
TOTAL PROTEIN---------6.9------------6.0-8.5
ALBUMIN-----------------4.5------------3.5-5.0
GLOBUMIN---------------2.4------------1.8-3.8
A/G RATIO---------------1.9-------------1.1-2.5

TOTAL IRON-------------89---------------34-182

IRON BINDING CAPACITY, Unsat.----180-----130-375
IRON BINDING CAPACITY--------------269-----245-400

%SATURATION (CALC)------------33---------20-55

FERRITIN---------------22---------------------10-295

VITAMIN B12----------1190-----------210-925 ***HIGH**

PROLACTIN------------4.0------------2.8-29.9

FREE T4----------------1.12-----------0.80-1.80

FREE T3----------------2.4-------------2.3-4.2

TSH, 3RD GEN---------0.114--------0.350-5.50 **LOW**

T3 TOTAL--------------69.0----------80.0-200.0 **EXTRA LOW**
(results confirmed by repeat analysis)

REVERSE T3-----------548------------90-350 **HIGH**

ACTH-------------------22-------------9-46

LH----------------------11.41
midcycle------------8.7-76.3

FSH--------------------5.0
midcycle----------3.4-33.4

FOLIC ACID (FOLATE)------19.58-------2.60-16.00 **HIGH**

VITAMIN D, 25 HYDROXY------29.5-------31-100 **LOW**
10-30=VITAMIN D INSUFFIENCY
--I do go in the sun and also take 1 tsp CLO everyday

Please let me know what you think. I am on 30mcg of T3, which I stopped 3 days before the test, and take 6 Isocort each day. I occasionally take a b-complex, but it's not a high one. I take 1 tsp of CLO each day, but still my Vitamin D is low, and I have had plenty of sub lately and even in the winter I try to go out 15 min each day, plus I live in So.Ca. The Reverse T3 has me puzzled along with the other thyroid numbers. Please share your thoughts

Any chance I coud be on too much T3? I started it in November, then upped it again in April. It just seems that the more T3 I take the worse my Tsh gets and my T3 numbers are. **My old labs are on my other post a couple above this**


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BeingMe* 
Any chance I coud be on too much T3? I started it in November, then upped it again in April. It just seems that the more T3 I take the worse my Tsh gets and my T3 numbers are. **My old labs are on my other post a couple above this**

Once you are on T3 you don't pay attention to your TSH, you pay attention to your frees. TSH isn't what is important once you're being treated. Your frees tell you how much of your medicine is actually being _used.

_This is especially true if your pituitary is not working. TSH is what tells your pituitary to make more thyroid hormone, and if your thyroid isn't working at all, you are getting it all from supplements. Your frees tell you how much is floating around and how much is being used, IIRC. There are some people in the support groups who can explain this in much better detail than I can, but that is the gist of why so many patients run from TSH worshipping docs, and why we insist on the other tests.


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## nichole

Well, I am feeling so much better. I was so hyper and anxious it was terrible. Now with the lower dose and the adrenal support I started, I feel AWESOME. I also had lots of help with the kids this weekend. I had the idea for dh and I to join a gym that has childcare during workouts. If we can swing it financially, I think it will help our stress level a great deal.


----------



## jenji

Quote:


Originally Posted by *3kidsclmr* 
Just went to see an endocrinologist today. He also said that my high TSH has nothing to do with the irritability I've been feeling over the past few months, since I have enough thyroid hormone floating around in my system (I have normal T3 and T4/free T4 levels), so now I'm thinking I should start an antidepressant along with the T4 hormone he prescribed. I think maybe I'm o.k. with just taking the levothyroxine since I really don't have any symptoms of hypothyroidism (other than the irritability which I guess is not necessarily related), but not sure if I should seek another opinion or maybe just see how I feel on the T4 med.

Definitely just see how you feel on the levothyroxine. After months of depression, which resulted in me quitting my job and several other rash things, a week on Synthroid and I felt MUCH more balanced again. I don't think high TSH *causes* mood swings/depression, but it definitely can be a byproduct of hypothyroidism. I dont' know your exact situation, but I would just try the levo and see how you feel after you get your TSH regulated with that. If you're still feeling the same, definitely get a second opinoin. I wouldn't ditch your endo until you've at least tried his treatment (assuming you're ok with it).


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## bigeyes

quoted from
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com...ad7f9cf7ec556a

*Long and Pathetic list of Hypothyroid Symptoms*


Less stamina than others
Less energy than others
Long recovery period after any activity
Inability to hold children for very long
Arms feeling like dead weights after activity
Chronic Low Grade Depression
Suicidal Thoughts
Often feeling cold
Cold hands and feet
High cholesterol
Bizarre and Debilitating reaction to exercise
Hard stools
Constipation
No eyebrows or thinning outer eyebrows
Dry Hair
Hair Loss
Dry cracking skin
Nodding off easily
Requires naps in the afternoon
Sleep Apnea (which can also be associated with low cortisol)
Inability to concentrate or read long periods of time
Forgetfulness
Foggy thinking
Inability to lose weight
Always gaining weight
Inability to function in a relationship with anyone
NO sex drive
Moody periods
PMS
Excruciating pain during period
Nausea
Swelling/edema/puffiness
Aching bones/muscles
Osteoporosis
Bumps on legs
Acne on face and in hair
Breakout on chest and arms
Hives
Exhaustion in every dimension-physical, mental, spiritual, emotional
Inability to work full-time
Inability to stand on feet for long periods
Complete lack of motivation
Slowing to a snail's pace when walking up slight grade
Extremely crabby, irritable, intolerant of others
Handwriting nearly illegible
Internal itching of ears
Broken/peeling fingernails
Dry skin or snake skin
Major anxiety/worry
Ringing in ears
Lactose Intolerance
Inability to eat in the mornings
No hair growth, breaks faster than it grows
Joint pain
Carpal tunnel symptoms
No Appetite
Fluid retention to the point of Congestive Heart Failure
Swollen legs that prevented walking
Blood Pressure problems
Varicose Veins
Dizziness from fluid on the inner ear
Low body temperature
Raised temperature
Tightness in throat; sore throat
Swollen lymph glands
Allergies (which can also be a result of low cortisol-common with hypothyroid patients)
Headaches and Migraines
Sore feet (plantar fascitis); painful soles of feet
now how do I put this one politely&#8230;.a cold bum, butt, derriere, fanny, gluteus maximus, haunches, hindquarters, posterior, rear, and/or cheeks. Yup, really exists.
quoted from
http://www.elliotthealthcare.com/low_thyroid.htm
*Low Thyroid Function - Hypothyroidism*
Pat Elliott, ND

*Common Symptoms:
*
Fatigue, falling asleep during the day, excessive need for sleep, difficult to awaken, sleepiness after eating
Weakness, lightheadedness
Low pulse rate (below 80), low body temperature
Muscle and joint aches and pains
Low tolerance for temperature fluctuations, easily chilled or overheated
Cold hands and/or feet, poor circulation, Raynaud's phenomenon (fingers turn white when exposed to cold)
Pale skin, pale lips
Depression, decreased joy in living, lethargy, apathy, poor memory, difficult concentration
Irritability, mood swings, nervousness and anxiety
Un-coordination, sluggishness or "laziness"
Easy weight gain, difficult weight loss
Swelling in feet, puffiness around eyes on awakening
Sugar and other food cravings, hypoglycemia symptoms (weakness, shakiness and/or irritability before meals)
Dry skin, itchy skin, hives, acne, coarse or rough skin, eczema, psoriasis
Decrease in or lack of sweating
Brittle and slow growing hair and nails, dry hair, hair loss, loss of lateral eyebrows
Recurring or prolonged infections including: sinusitis, bronchitis/pneumonia, ear infections, tonsillitis, boils,
vaginitis, bladder and kidney infections, and prostatitis
Poor wound healing, tendency for bruising
Elevated cholesterol and/or triglycerides in the blood, atherosclerosis, angina, heart attack, palpitations
High or very low blood pressure
Low libido, infertility, repeated miscarriage
Menstrual disturbances including: early or late starting age, painful periods, long or short cycles, irregular periods, heavy
bleeding, bleeding lasting greater than 5 days, PMS, endometrial hyperplasia, uterine fibroids, and ovarian cysts
Constipation, indigestion, loss of appetite in the morning
Abnormal sensation in throat or upon swallowing
Hoarseness of voice
Allergies, asthma
Difficult breathing
Insomnia
Carpal tunnel syndrome and other nerve entrapment symptoms (burning/tingling), hands or feet falling asleep
Migraine and other headaches
Poor hearing
Decline in health following a pregnancy


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## AfricanQueen99

Quote:


Originally Posted by *3kidsclmr* 
He also said that my high TSH has nothing to do with the irritability I've been feeling over the past few months, since I have enough thyroid hormone floating around in my system (I have normal T3 and T4/free T4 levels), so now I'm thinking I should start an antidepressant along with the T4 hormone he prescribed.

He flat out lied to you.


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## lil_miss_understood

Went to see my ND today. He ordered a thyroid panel for me and will let me know when it's in. Once we do the panel and see where I'm sitting presently, I'm doing a switch over to Armour. My ND figures, based on present symptoms, that he'll start me on 1 grain (my present Synthroid dose is equivalent to 3/4 grain). I'm just so sick and tired of being sick and tired.








I can hardly wait.







:


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## lil_miss_understood

So I got a call from the endo's office today to make an appointment. According to his nurse, he goes by "same ranges the lab considers normal"- so lab ranges which are 5 years old or so.
I'm wondering if that's true or if that's just what she thinks, so to speak- like, maybe he looks at it with a more experienced eye or something, iykwim. On the other hand, I'm not sure I want to waste my time and money finding out. I mean, I know he makes $200 in 15 minutes, but that's not true in my house.









ETA: Is it a little obvious that I'm confused? Do I really *need* an allopathic doctor for this?


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## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kindacrunchy* 
Educate me on the soy thing, please!

http://thyroid.about.com/cs/soyinfo/a/soy.htm
http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/soydangers.htm
http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/thyroidproblems.html

What I really love is the latest study about male infertility, with the statement that the information isn't enough to make people stop eating soy.








http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/200807...y-011ccfa.html

If this information isn't enough, WTH is? It also kills me that during this study they made no mention of soy aliases, or how many processed foods it's hidden in.

http://www.geocities.com/hotsprings/4620/decoder.htm
http://www.chesapeakestyle.com/celebrate/nov04a.html
http://www.fitnessforoneandall.com/n...y/part_two.htm
http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/onewoman.html
http://www.frot.co.nz/dietnet/basics/soy.htm
http://www.soya.be/forum/viewtopic.php?t=260
http://ezinearticles.com/?Masacuring...bard&id=571531

Over the years I've figured out that soy aggravates my migraines and makes me feel like crap, and it is known as an endocrine disruptor. Because it is cheap to produce soy flour, soybean oil and soy protein, it has systematically replaced flours, proteins and oils in so many of our food sources it's nearly impossible to avoid unless you stay home and make everything you eat from scratch, which is what I do. It's shocking when you start reading labels and see what they hide it in, things like lemonade drinks in restaurants, canned water packed tuna, most chocolate, many vitamin pills. I have a book around here somewhere that tells about the FDA approval of soy as a food source, and the studies that showed everything that was wrong with it were downplayed _simply because it is so profitable._ That is the real reason why we have been told it's healthy, and that is the real reason why so many people feel like crap when they do everything they think is going to help them regain their health. Soy is the kiss of death for thyroid patients.

Fermentation makes soy easier for your body to digest, but even then, it isn't something to eat in unlimited amounts. All the hype about Asians eating huge amounts of soy is just that, _hype._ It's only American where people think _a serving_ of something equals _a pound._


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## kindacrunchy

thank you much. i'll check it all out! my mom mentioned it when i was all stressed out about my biopsy and i learned that my biological father has thyroid cancer.


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## nichole

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 

ETA: Is it a little obvious that I'm confused? Do I really *need* an allopathic doctor for this?


I think that is up to you. If you don't feel good about that dr, then keep looking. I'm sorry I don't remember if you said you have been looking for a while or if this is your first dr you tried. You could try the raw glandulars first if you are comfortable with that. If you feel fatigued enough, then you may need some raw glandulars or thyroid hormones to help you get by. I am on armour as well as adrenal support. To me the best option is a natural minded MD. I also went to an endo one time, which was useful b/c he wasn't afraid to order the whole thyroid panel plus screen me for hashimoto's.


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## WuWei

Ladies, I just happened upon this thread and wanted to share an old post of mine.

Quote:

*Hormonal imbalances-saliva testing*
I just learned this stuff and wanted to share. I hope it helps you all.

Last Tuesday evening I attended a class about female hormonal imbalances. The issues regarding hormonal levels is that they may be normal on blood levels, but symptomatic (menstrual pain, moodiness, endometriosis, tired, difficulty conceiving, insomnia, hair loss, etc.). The blood levels were discussed as *available* hormones BUT with poor utilization by the body, they aren't effective. The utilization efficiency is dependent upon many interrelated nutrients and other hormones. Interestingly, cortisol is a huge variable associated with effective uptake of the hormones progesterone (especially), estrogen and testosterone, AND thyroid. High cortisol levels cause hormone resistance and block the utilization of the hormones. Many post partum women have disturbances in their cortisol (due to STRESS!!) and thyroid uptake becomes interfered with too. Evidently, progesterone levels, associated with mood stability, start decreasing precipitously about age 35 naturally. Low progesterone = mood changes.

The recommendation was to have saliva testing of these hormones, instead of blood level evaluation. And it should include the saliva levels of cortisol and thyroid. Pregnancy and breastfeeding alter these sex hormones and nutrient variables are critical in the uptake and utilization ability of the blood, especially in the brain neurosynthesis of these hormones. These hormones effect the immune system, and seratonin is associated with sleep and estrogen. (I was taking notes.) The progesterone level evaluated in saliva is critical as most women at age 35 are low in progesterone, irrelevant of recent pregnancy or breastfeeding even. Pregnancy alters all of these hormones, as does breastfeeding.

Apparently, there are synthetic hormone replacements (HRT) and bio-identical hormone replacements (BHRT). (I had never heard much about this issue before now.) Anyway, the BHRT are more able to be utilized by the body because of their "fit" with (proteins or amino acids, I believe) in order to be used rather than freely "available" in the blood. Does this make sense? Basically, HRT and even our own hormones may appear to be adequate in quantity, according to the blood level, but the the interaction of other hormones and nutrients (specifically deficiencies) means that they are not effectively used. So, the suggestion was to have each of the sex hormones evaluated in saliva and replaced specifically (as necessary) with bio-identical replacements (BHRT). Evidently, the reason that most HRT used by the medical profession is HRT, is because HRT is marketed. BHRT are naturally derived and MUCH less expensive and don't hold the profit potential.

Apparently, BHRT are *derived* from Wild Mexican Yams and Soy and made to be chemically identical to our natural hormones. Although, food consumption of these foods in huge quantities would NOT be as useful or efficient an effort to "replace" the hormones. The natural derivative of the hormones is chemically dissimilar, ie. phytoestrogen is NOT the same as a bio-identical hormone. Confused as mud? I was a critical care nurse for 17 years and I am a bit confused. So, I am giving my best understanding, but this is NOT my area of specialty. I was a cardio-thorasic nurse. BUT, I am now 43 and ummmm....needing to understand this stuff better.

BTW, endometriosis is associated with progesterone levels. I too have endo too. And progesterone is associated with the utilization of estrogen...which all needs to be in balance to conceive and carry babies to term. All of this is interestingly connected. Frankly, I have written all I know. So, I am not more help than knowing that I need more info! And Magnesium (and many other nutrients) are critical to the immune system and the hormones, if I recall correctly. And most of us are low in Magnesium, especially after pregnancy and while breast feeding.

The book "Menopause & The Mind" was a referenced resource for the lay person about the interaction of hormones and moods. I am going to seek it out. Another author knowledgeable about hormones and women is Susan Weed. She has several books about different stages in a woman's life: childbearing years, premenopausal, etc. I haven't read her books, but a friend recommended them. And John Lee writes about hormone balancing in relation to diet, supplements and exercise.

HTH, Pat


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## beckington

Crashing here!







I've been reading through the thread and various links and I think I'm more confused than ever (of course sleep deprivation and brain fog doesn't help!). My mom and maternal grandmother have hypo, my aunt (mom's sister) has hyper. I was testing two years ago and it was 'normal' - I don't know the details, whoops. Anyhow, I've got lots of hyper and hypo symptoms but actually thought I was anemic again (had been when I had the thyroid test two years ago) so went back to the doc. She did a bunch of tests to see why I was anemic again, but test results show that I'm not, woo hoo! My TSH level is .3 - the doc said normal was .1 to 5 (which I know from reading is debated!). We were joking about how funny it was that I was closer to hyper than hypo considering I weigh close to 300lbs and am not energetic to say the least. But my .3 is considered normal by the doc. Should I ask for more testing? I can't believe I have an overactive thyroid, but something feels wrong!

Thanks for any advice!


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## AfricanQueen99

.3 is at the low end of the normal range. I'm having a hard time living at that end (and I'm supposed to be lower).

I'd get the results from the last test and get a new work-up done. See where you are and how far you've moved.


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## lil_miss_understood

nak
I went to check out top docs again... It was only then I noticed that Dr. Ray Peat lives/works in the same city I'm being sent to see an endo in. I wonder if I should/could get an appt with him instead.


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## jessjgh1

subbing here lo fell aslleep nak and my arm is about to fall off.
awaiting tests from my midwife...

after reading a few posts all i can think is what to do if my labs show nothing?

jessica


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## bigeyes

First, get copies of your labs, and go to a thyroid group and ask for help interpreting them. Plenty of docs just look at your TSH, tell you you're _fine,_ and keep you in the dark.

Through my thyroid group over the years I've read about how antidepressants affect cortisol levels, which affect how your thyroid works, for example, and how smoking affects your thyroid, and all kinds of things my thyroid doctor never even talked about. For about 20 years I had doctors giving me drugs that worked against my thyroid, all the while telling me I was _fine.







:_

Until you know how to interpret your labs, or have someone help you interpret them, you can't take it for granted that they _show nothing.









_Keep a Word file with things you learn in it, because if you're like the rest of us with _thyroid brain fog,_ you'll forget things and ask the same questions over and over. This way you'll have a file to go back to when you need to look something up. Save links and tidbits so when you need to know something it's all in one place.

STTM has a page with tests you will want to have run.
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com...ffda99be0de8a9


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## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
Keep a Word file with things you learn in it, because if you're like the rest of us with _thyroid brain fog,_ you'll forget things and ask the same questions over and over. This way you'll have a file to go back to when you need to look something up. Save links and tidbits so when you need to know something it's all in one place.

This honestly never occurred to me before.







Thanks.
A silly question maybe, but does the brain fog ever go away? I'm so tired of feeling stupid.


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## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
This honestly never occurred to me before.







Thanks.
A silly question maybe, but does the brain fog ever go away? I'm so tired of feeling stupid.

Sometimes I think it has, then I seem to have a relapse.


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## jlutgendorf

Can those of you with hypo tell me if you have all experienced weight gain?

I'm seeing a new dr. on Thursday for many issues, one of which is suspected hypo. I have some test results that indicate mild hypo and I just found out I have FOUR family members with thyroid problems. I also have started forgetting things, I've been getting easily fatigued, have no libido, etc.

But I haven't had significant weight gain or thinning hair. I've certainly gained weight, but I'm still within a "normal" range for my height. I've just started to regularly workout so no time to see if I can loose the extra weight or not. I actually used to be quite thin as a kid/teenager. Looking back at photos, I can see why people used to ask me if I was anorexic







. But I've figured the weight gain I have now is just my metabolism slowing down coupled with working a desk job. We can't all stay a size zero-five forever, right?

So I guess, what this whole rambling thing is asking, if there hasn't been significant weight gain, can I have hypo?

Thanks!

~Julia


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## bigeyes

Some lucky people don't gain weight when hypo. MY FIL is hypo and is actually losing weight, but I gained 80 lbs when I went hypo. A couple of times I've lost all the weight and gotten sick again when I moved and couldn't find a decent doc and refill prescriptions, so I would gain the weight back while waiting to get an appointment, or while messing around with lousy TSH worshippers.







:

If you don't gain, count your blessings.


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## myjo

Me, my mother, and my grandmother all have hypo-thyroidism and non of us gain weight. If fact, we all tend to lose weight from any extra stress. So yes, you absolutely can be hypo and not have excess weight issues.


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## lablover

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jlutgendorf* 
Can those of you with hypo tell me if you have all experienced weight gain?

I didn't have weight problems when I was diagnosed - I found out my TSH was in the 30s through an infertility workup years ago. I was a size 4 at the time.


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## WildIris

On the flip side, sometimes hypers gain weight because everything in the body speeds up and they are hungry all the time, so they eat more and gain. The stereotype of hypo=weight gain and hyper=weight loss just isn't true.


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## kindacrunchy

who here is hyper?


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## jlutgendorf

Thanks for the replies! You know, now that I think about it, my family members with thyroid issues are all within ranges of "healthy" weights. Granted, I'm not clear on what everyone has.

I'm getting nervous about my appointment this week. Psyching myself out that I'm going to hear another "it's in your head, here's an anti-depressant". I mean, if you hear that often enough, at what point do you start to believe it?

I've got iffy test results (not great, but not clearly hypo), some family with thyroid issues and then just the way I feel (crappy).

Sorry, this is getting a little ranty&#8230;

Thanks again for the replies, they mean a lot to me!









~Julia


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## jlutgendorf

Also, does anyone know if there is any relationship between issues with the parathyroid and hypo (or other thyroid issues)?

My grandfather just had one of his parathyroid glands (is that the right term?) removed, but I don't think he has any problems with his thyroid.

~Julia


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## Venice Mamacita

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jlutgendorf* 
Can those of you with hypo tell me if you have all experienced weight gain?

Emphatically, yes! I'm post-partum hypo, and noticed weight gain starting when DS was about 9 months old. I'm 5'5" and weighed around 130 when I got pregnant with DS. I weighed 165 when finally diagnosed as hypo 3.5 years later. After 1.5 years on Armour (and eating right and exercising 3 times a week), I was back down to 130 when I got pregnant with DD, who's due in October. I'm 7m1w pregnant and still weigh about 10 pounds less than I did at my peak.

My blood tests are within "normal" range, btw. DH is an acupuncturist, and he's the one who finally figured out what was going on with me. Besides the weight gain, I was exhausted all the time, depressed, couldn't concentrate, and had horrible AFs.


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## AfricanQueen99

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kindacrunchy* 
who here is hyper?

I am, but not naturally. I'm suppressed to .05 TSH.

And weight gain is absolutely normal for hyper, too.


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## 3kidsclmr

Since the endo I went to see wouldn't give me armour, I had to schedule another appointment with another doc. who I can't get in to see for two months. In the meantime, I figured I'd take the levothyroxine the first doc. prescribed... He told me to take 37.5 mg once a day, which I've done for about two weeks. I cannot believe how absolutely horrible I have felt. Physically, it's been like I have a hangover- and I've been way more irritable... to the point that I'm almost homicidal (no worries... I absolutely will not act upon it!). I cut the dose to half over the past week and don't feel quite as bad. Does anyone know if this is typical? I figured that even though it was synthetic, the levothyroxine is still something that is very close to what's naturally in your body, so I have no idea why I'd have such negative side effects.


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## Celtain

Quote:


Originally Posted by *3kidsclmr* 
Since the endo I went to see wouldn't give me armour, I had to schedule another appointment with another doc. who I can't get in to see for two months. In the meantime, I figured I'd take the levothyroxine the first doc. prescribed... He told me to take 37.5 mg once a day, which I've done for about two weeks. I cannot believe how absolutely horrible I have felt. Physically, it's been like I have a hangover- and I've been way more irritable... to the point that I'm almost homicidal (no worries... I absolutely will not act upon it!). I cut the dose to half over the past week and don't feel quite as bad. Does anyone know if this is typical? I figured that even though it was synthetic, the levothyroxine is still something that is very close to what's naturally in your body, so I have no idea why I'd have such negative side effects.


I've never had a dr just start me right where I was supposed to be. They have always started at like a quarter of the dose, then gone up to half the dose, then 3 quarters, then full dose. I bet you felt bad it must have been a heck of a shock to your system!


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## AfricanQueen99

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Celtain* 
I've never had a dr just start me right where I was supposed to be. They have always started at like a quarter of the dose, then gone up to half the dose, then 3 quarters, then full dose. I bet you felt bad it must have been a heck of a shock to your system!

Yeah, that. The basic reason is that they don't *know* where you should be without wiggling the dose around. It's dependent on so many things.

Levo is a long-term drug so altering your dose isn't being helpful at all...your next blood draw won't be accurate since you're not ingesting the same amount each time.


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## Queen of Cups

Any quick words of wisdom for me? I have a doctors appointment today and I"m going to bring up thyroid testing. In the past year I have gained 12 lbs even though I work out 1500-3000 minutes per month (usually 60-90 minutes a day using a heart rate monitor to keep me in a training zone and doing heavy weight lifting three times a week) and have gone up 1-2 clothing sizes. I eat very healthy and am still nursing, and I have to get under 1400 calories/day to loose weight (and then it comes right back on as soon as I eat normally again). Doesn't that seem a bit extreme? I also have been more tired than usual, I don't remember the last time I made it through a movie without falling asleep, either at home or at the theater. I've always had terribly dry skin, there's not been a change there. I've also been struggling with depression, though super-high levels of fish oil seem to be helping a little. My basal body temperature never seems to get above 98 degrees.

I'm a bit worried, because I've been taking an iodine supplement (100% recommended amount, twice a day) and I worry that will skew thyroid tests. Will it?


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## AfricanQueen99

I don't know if iodine will skew results, but I'd imagine many other women in this thread do.

As for advice: just tell your physician that you'd like a full thyroid panel (including TSH, T3, T4). Explain why. It's your body and you get to make your own medical decisions.

Good luck!


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## lil_miss_understood

I'm not sure either if iodine will skew results. What it *will* do is provide your body with a necessary building block to produce T4 and flush bromide, chloride and fluoride out of your body- into your nursling.
It certainly sounds like you may be having thyroid problems, although I never would have been able to exercise for 1 minute even when I was at my worst. Just unloading a dishwasher or walking 2 feet put me out of breath.
I would suggest also getting antibody tests done along with the TSH, T3 and T4 (and make sure those are FREE T3 and FREE T4). From what I understand, some women start feeling effects of Hashimoto's before the thyroid hormone levels are affected.
Hopefully others can give you a more direct answer about iodine and maybe some more info on Hashi's.


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## guest^

To the OP.....

Could you start a new thread? This is sssooooo long to read through.

Please?







:








:







:

mp


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## tanyalynn

Quote:

I'm a bit worried, because I've been taking an iodine supplement (100% recommended amount, twice a day) and I worry that will skew thyroid tests. Will it?
Iodine relieved some of my symptoms, but I was taking a much higher dose--several milligrams per day (1 Iodoral). You're just taking 150mcg 2x/day? Hope I'm remembering the RDA correctly. I would think that low an amt would not mess up test results (it's still within the range of what you could get from food), but like a pp said, iodine does mobilize various nasties (including mercury, my personal nemesis).


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## *Jessica*

I've started a new thread (link below) as requested since this one is soooooooo long. Should I edit the first post of the thread to add any important info? Like links to good sites to read, etc? Just let me know what should be there and I'll edit.

Link to The Thyroid Thread (Part II)


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## Kramas Creation

Hypo here - wow theres lots of posts i only got thru the first 2 pages will hae to come back later lol

I have always supsected i have it and so did my previous family dr. I had and enlarged thyroid gland in my neck that he monitored but when he sent me for blood work it would always fall within a normal enough range that he would just monitor it and never medicated me.

Well i moved and never had a family dr for s afew years till i got preggo with my first though nothing ever came up in my blood work till this time around. Im on baby #3. And for my routine 15 week blood work it was noted that I have Hypothyroidism so FINALLY i am on synthroid for this.

Since being put on it my enlarged thyroid has almost dimished.

Something I later found out was that just because my levels come back as normal accourding to their charts they may not be normal for ME.

My current dr is having me testing reg. while im preggo and will continue to do so after the birth. Its hard to tell how things are different now from being on the meds as i was leaving that horrid first trimester and entering blissful tri #2 when the meds really kicked in.

I dont eat A LOT and my diet has not changed much over the years but i was putting on a lot of weight despite not eating anything. However my first 2 pregnancies i lost an avereage of 20lbs in the first trimester whereas this time around i didnt lose anything just gained despite my morning sickness and lack of eating so i guess my thryoid just finally gave up all together.


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## SheSpeeds

Hypothyroid and Allergies? I have recently been diagnosed, and deciding how to proceed. It is not super high, nor do I think I have symptoms. Except... I have been increasingly struggling with what seems to be seasonal allergies that last most of the year, reoccurring bronchitis, and this year two episodes that I would describe as asthma. This year I finally jumped on the bandwagon and fully medicated myself for allergies to bar against having to take an antibiotic for bronchitis, and it didn't scratch the surface.

Anyone find allergy relief from treating their thyroid?


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## Chicharronita

SheSpeeds said:


> Hypothyroid and Allergies? I have recently been diagnosed, and deciding how to proceed. It is not super high, nor do I think I have symptoms. Except... I have been increasingly struggling with what seems to be seasonal allergies that last most of the year, reoccurring bronchitis, and this year two episodes that I would describe as asthma. This year I finally jumped on the bandwagon and fully medicated myself for allergies to bar against having to take an antibiotic for bronchitis, and it didn't scratch the surface.
> 
> Anyone find allergy relief from treating their thyroid?


It could be your thyroid, but it could also be low cortisol. Did you have any labs done, like the four-times-a-day salivary panel?


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## SheSpeeds

Interesting, have never heard of low cortisol and salivary panels. I go today and will bring it up. My thyroid is at 3.1, so I'm mainly hoping to find out if I can control with nutrition or if I should do nutrition and medication. As you can imagine, my hopes and dreams are that I avoid the pills.


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## Chicharronita

SheSpeeds said:


> Interesting, have never heard of low cortisol and salivary panels.


If your doctor uses Labcorp, the test can be done by them. However, it's been my experience that many doctors don't ask for this test, only anti-aging and holistic-minded ones.



SheSpeeds said:


> As you can imagine, my hopes and dreams are that I avoid the pills.


I hear ya! For years I tried to avoid the inevitable by trying this and that diet, supplement, herb, etc. Unfortunately my hypothyroidism only responds to desiccated thyroid medications.

But it's worth trying the other stuff while monitoring your thyroid with labs and by how you feel.


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## shelley4

hi everyone, i'm new to this whole thyroid thing and pretty darn confused. as background... i'm currently acting as a surrogate for a cousin.. as a part of getting ready to do this, her fertility doctors ordered a whole slew of blood tests. everything except my TSH came back normal.. but my TSH was 6.9. when i asked the doctor what the heck that meant, he would only tell me that it was 'high' and that i'd have to take pills for a while. i continued asking more questions, but he pretty much refused to answer, and it was very frustrating. 

when i went to fill my prescription (synthroid), the pharmacist was very helpful, and explained that the TSH being so high actually means that my thyroid function was low.. and that i had hypothyroidism, and would likely be on these pills forever. when i went home and did some online research, that all made sense. 

when i spoke to the fertility docs again (different one), he was very insistent that i do NOT have hypothyroidism, which i really don't understand at all. is it possible to have high TSH without having hypothyroidism?? 

follow up blood work brought my TSH down to better levels.. 2.4 within two weeks of being on a tiny dose.. 0.05/day, and at my last blood draw, i was down to 1.65. since i am now pregnant, it is being monitored by an actual endocrinologist. i had thought that the endo would give me a better understanding of what is going on, but when i had my appointment with her a week or so ago, i left feeling pretty much as confused as i do now. i asked her straight out if i had hypothyroidism, but she kind of danced around the issue.. she even said that if i was not pregnant, she would not treat a TSH of 6.9 .. that she only treats 10 and higher (?!?!?!). from what i've read, TSH should be under 5, and even that is considered crazy high by most people, that under 3 is more reasonable. during the pregnancy, i know i need to keep it under 2.5. i know that there are other test results that usually go along with TSH (free T4 or something???), but i have no idea what those results might be, or if the tests were even ordered. oh, i should add that she has scheduled me for a thyroid ultrasound.. she doesn't think it's necessary, but she wants to have 'complete records', so i do that the first week of september.

as for other symptoms, well, that's hard to say. i have three children, i have worked full time doing home daycare (read 5 toddlers everyday!!) for the last 12 years... of course i'm tired. over the last few years, i have gained weight while not really changing what i eat... in fact, in the first two weeks of being on meds, i lost 7 lbs without exercise/diet changes. this whole TSH has come out of the blue for me.. if it weren't for the initial blood tests, i would have had no idea that anything was going on. i have been under alot of stress for the last few years, so i've now quit my job, and between that and my meds, i feel that i am getting more sleep and have less stress in general. the pregnancy is going well.

the only thing other than my meds that i am taking for my thyroid is this blend of sea veg added to my daily smoothies.. i've read that natural sources of iodine can be helpful. would love any additional advice.


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