# When did you turn the car seat around?



## Rainbow Brite (Nov 2, 2004)

Curious as to when people turned, and why


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## lizziejackie (Jun 1, 2005)

We turned it at one year b/c the little one wanted to see Christmas lights. She didn't surpass 20 until 18 mo and I wasn't about to keep her turned that long. I know it's illegal...


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## hippycrite (Jan 23, 2003)

I turned my daughter when she hit the max weight for rear-facing. She didn't seem to care and we felt it was safer, so there wasn't any reason to turn her until we needed to. She was a little past three when we turned her car seat.


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## sweetfeet (Jan 16, 2003)

Sophie was 2 years old and hit the weight limit on her britax marathon.


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## Rainbow Brite (Nov 2, 2004)

Dd is 14 months and we haven't turned around yet. Our max rear is 40lbs. I don't think I would keep her rear past age 3, but I'm not sure how long I'd keep rear. I'd like to go to the max, but 40 sounds really big?


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## Junebug (Mar 31, 2005)

I voted other.
DD is 14 months & about 22 pounds and we just turned it last weekend. I had hoped to wait till she reached the limits (Britax Marathon) but her legs were squished up against the seat & it was driving her crazy.
Car rides became so awful thst we just folded.
I can't imagine a 3 year old riding rear facing...maybe it's just my car?


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## broodymama (May 3, 2004)

DS is 13 months and I haven't turned it around yet. I plan on waiting until he reaches the rear-facing weight or height limit for our carseat, a Marathon.

DS doesn't mind being rear-facing and I've seen the crash videos for front & rear-facing, so that clinched it for us.


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## annakiss (Apr 4, 2003)

About a year & a half, I believe. I think just because DS1 was getting rather rambunxious back there and we wanted to be able to keep a better eye on him and also so he could see us.


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## Threefold (Nov 27, 2001)

I turned ds around when he was 15 months. I hadn't planned on it, but we were traveling and his seat would not fit in the rear of our hosts car RF, so I had to turn him around. I hadn't seen any crash test of RF vs FF footage at that point, he was thrilled to be FF, so I just left him that way.








DD will RF until she reaches the max, which is 33lbs and 42" in her Roundabout.


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## hippycrite (Jan 23, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Junebug*
I can't imagine a 3 year old riding rear facing...maybe it's just my car?









I don't know, my daughter didn't mind, her legs weren't really squished, although she couldn't straighten them, she just folded them or put them up on the back of the seat. After I watched the videos at this site, I pretty much made up my mind to leave her rear-facing as long as possible.

It was an easy choice for us, I don't know what I'd have done if she was uncomfortable.


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

dd1: at age 2.5 when I was pg and could no longer lift her very well and get her settled. She was able to get into it herself more easily if it was front facing.

dd2: age 1.5, because my IL's were visiting and it was the only way to fit all of us in the car. I kept her that way after they left. Also helped me to attend to her better if she vomited (reflux) if she was forward facing.


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## Mirzam (Sep 9, 2002)

I answered this poll with my youngest in mind and I voted when he reached the maximum weight for the seat. I turned him one month shy of his fourth birthday when he was consistantly 33 lbs (he was in a Britax Wizard).

For those who cannot imagine a three plus year old rear-facing, they simply cross their legs or if they ride in the captain's chair of a minivan or SUV they often put their legs either side of the seat. Children are much more flexible than adults and it causes them no discomfort. If you want to see what a three year old looks like rear facing, here is some photos of my DS Toby from the CPSafety extending rear-facing page.


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## ashleep (Jul 20, 2004)

dd jus turned 1 and is exactly 20 lbs. I don't want to turn her until we have to by the weight/height limit. DH can't seem to get it that it's soooooo much safer for as long as possible and wants to turn her soon.


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## wawap (Jun 28, 2004)

I chose other because he had grown too long for the rear-facing seat. He was well below the weight limit for the seat, but was too long. I think he was 14 months... Close to 15? We have the Evenflo Triumph & their heads need to be 1" or more below the top. With fwd facing, it is fine as long as the ears are below the top of the seat.


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## psyche (Apr 6, 2005)

We have a Roundabout. I'm not sure *exactly* when we turned it forward-facing, but I know we did it due to a combination of height and weight (the height limit rear-facing is lower than forward-facing). I think it happened sometime around the kiddo's second birthday because we have a forward-facing picture from later that summer and a rear-facing picture from spring.


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## wendy1221 (Feb 9, 2004)

We only turned ds2's around (Britax Boulevard) because we finally figured out that he gets motion sickness and that's why he cries nonstop on long trips. He started puking, so taht was a big tip off. Anyway, we turned his seat around between 18 mos and 2 years old and he's been fine in the car ever since.


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## stafl (Jul 1, 2002)

DD1 was nearly two when she was turned around. She was barely 20lbs at the time. I had gone across the country and the car rental place had put in a front-facing carseat for her. Once she sat forward-facing, there was no going back.

DD2 was about 1.5 when she reached 20 lbs and was turned forward-facing.

yes, I have very petite children. But it's safer to be rear-facing, so I kept them that way as long as possible.


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## cmb123 (Dec 30, 2004)

I turned mine when they were over 1yr AND 20lbs. (which for my kids was closer to 18 months or so.

They are all still in carseats of some sort, and I plan to use them until they reach whatever maximum there is (much to my 9yo's horror!).


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## darkpear (Jul 22, 2003)

My daughter is 2.5 (28lb, 35") and still rear-facing in a Marathon. We will probably have to turn her around when we get a second Marathon for the new baby, but at this point I'm pretty comfortable with it


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## onlyzombiecat (Aug 15, 2004)

I don't really remember. I think it was between age 1 and 2.


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## Anguschick1 (Jul 25, 2003)

We haven't turned anyone around yet. Ds#1 is 2.5, 28 pounds and will be rear-facing until he hits the max of 33ponds (Britax Marathon). Ds#2 is almost 13 pounds, so he's a long way from turning around.

We've gotten crap from both of our families, like it's some wonderful thing to be forward facing. Ds's are fine rear-facing and it's so much safer than forward facing that I'm glad that ds has slowed on his growth.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

We haven't turned yet. We'll keep her rearfacing until she maxes out the rear limit in her wizard (off the top of my head, maybe 33 lbs?) she's got awhile.

-Angela


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## Trishy (Oct 15, 2002)

I turned ds1 around 18 months. Ds2 is 14 months and still rear facing. I don't plan to turn him for quite a while.


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## mbhf (Jan 8, 2005)

both of mine are still rear facing, and i plan to leave them that way until they are too tall or heavy.


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## MelKnee (Dec 5, 2001)

Well, since ds was 20 lbs at 4 mos, I definitely didn't turn him then! He was about 14 months.


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## Destinye (Aug 27, 2003)

Still rear facing at 21 mo and 27 lbs, 33 inches but will turn her around at 33 lbs in her Marathon unless she becomes too tall (not sure thats likely though before the weight).


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## wendy1221 (Feb 9, 2004)

I forgot to mention that ds2 was 23lbs at 6 mos and we kept him rear-facing till recently. He's almost 30lbs now, so I don't feel so bad. Liam will stay rear-facing till the limit on the seat (Britax I think is 33 lbs) unless he also gets carsick like ds2. nak


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## Anka (Aug 10, 2005)

My little alien is 16 months old. I have no intention to turn him before age 3, hopefully not before he's 4.

then again. I'm swedish. Keeping kids turned back for a long while is the norm here. Or at least it used to be. Seems the general world-wide way of turning the kids early is starting to take root, with the accompanying increase of death and severe injuries.


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## ETW (Feb 18, 2005)

We turned DS at a year -- he was already 20 lbs. DS was completely miserable in the car to the point that we didn't ever drive anywhere unless DH was along to ride in the back with him. That meant for months we didn't go to playgroup, couldn't sign him up for play classes, couldn't go on day outings at all unless we could walk or take public transportation. Once we turned him around he was happy in the car and we were able to resume normal activities. We decided that his day to day happiness was more important than the increased safety from staying RFing.


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## pixiexto (Mar 6, 2003)

We turned DD #1 when she was a little over two years old. Our reason for doing so at that time in particular is that we were moving to the South from Canada and had a 3+ day drive. We thought it would be more pleasant for her to be forward-facing. It did make it a much easier trip for all of us.

DD #2 is 9 months old & still rear-facing (of course!)


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

My ds is only 5 months old and is currently front-facing. I know he's not supposed to be, but it is a temporary solution to the problem of the car seat being very unstable when rear-facing. I can't find one that isn't, and I've heard you can put a Funnoodle in, but can't find a Funnoodle this time of year. I think I'm going to jury-rig a tie-down on to hold it to the frame of the car. Any one have any other ideas?

Those of you with older rear-facing children, where do they put their legs? My dd had her knees up by her ears (practically) by the time I turned her around.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

We just turned dd yesterday actually because she was less than an inch from the top. She is only almost 19 months. I had hoped to keep her rear facing longer.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lizziejackie*
We turned it at one year b/c the little one wanted to see Christmas lights. She didn't surpass 20 until 18 mo and I wasn't about to keep her turned that long. I know it's illegal...

















It is not illegal to keep children rear facing as long as they are within the weight and height limits. In fact, it is encouraged because it is safest.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah*
My ds is only 5 months old and is currently front-facing. I know he's not supposed to be, but it is a temporary solution to the problem of the car seat being very unstable when rear-facing. I can't find one that isn't, and I've heard you can put a Funnoodle in, but can't find a Funnoodle this time of year. I think I'm going to jury-rig a tie-down on to hold it to the frame of the car. Any one have any other ideas?

Those of you with older rear-facing children, where do they put their legs? My dd had her knees up by her ears (practically) by the time I turned her around.


DD's legs were scrunched up, but it is better to have scrunched up legs than turn forward facing before they are ready.

Can you get a car seat tech or even go to a fire station to get helpw ith installing your seat rear facing because it is illegal and dangerous to have such a young baby ff.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

My coworker was surprised on the weekend when she saw J was still rear facing because her 6 month old niece is forward facing. I almost shit. I explained how dangerou sand illegal it was, but I don't think she cared.


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## Mirzam (Sep 9, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah*
My ds is only 5 months old and is currently front-facing. I know he's not supposed to be, but it is a temporary solution to the problem of the car seat being very unstable when rear-facing. I can't find one that isn't, and I've heard you can put a Funnoodle in, but can't find a Funnoodle this time of year. I think I'm going to jury-rig a tie-down on to hold it to the frame of the car. Any one have any other ideas?

Those of you with older rear-facing children, where do they put their legs? My dd had her knees up by her ears (practically) by the time I turned her around.

Please mama, this is so dangerous. Don't gerry rig anything. Get your seat checked asap with a certified Child Passenger Safety Technician. You can find one in your area here or here.

Here is another link on why babies should be rear-facing take a look at the crashtest footage, please.

Also, squished legs are NOT a problem for babies, here is a quote from the above link:

Quote:

Won't my child be uncomfortable? Where do his legs go?

Many parents have the misconception that children are uncomfortable or at risk for leg injury by having their legs up on the vehicle seat or bent when kept rear-facing. These concepts are completely incorrect. First, children are more flexible than adults so what we perceive as uncomfortable is not for children. Think about how your child sits in everyday play. Do they sit with their legs straight out in front of them? When they sit on the couch, do they purposely sit so their legs dangle out over the edge? No. In real, everyday life, toddlers and preschoolers CHOSE to sit with their legs folded up - that IS comfort to them.

Second, there is not a single documented case of children's legs, hips, etc. breaking or being injured in a crash due to longer rear-facing. There are plenty of cases of head and neck injury in forward-facing children that could have been prevented if the child had remained rear-facing. However, even if a leg or hip were broken or injured, it can be fixed. A damaged spinal cord (from forward-facing too soon) cannot be repaired and subjects the child to lifelong disability or death.
I also posted this above, but here are some photos of my then 3 year old DS rear-facing in his car seat, he wasn't bothered in the least about the lack of leg room:

http://cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/TobyMA.aspx


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## mbhf (Jan 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah*
My ds is only 5 months old and is currently front-facing. I know he's not supposed to be, but it is a temporary solution to the problem of the car seat being very unstable when rear-facing. I can't find one that isn't, and I've heard you can put a Funnoodle in, but can't find a Funnoodle this time of year. I think I'm going to jury-rig a tie-down on to hold it to the frame of the car. Any one have any other ideas?

Those of you with older rear-facing children, where do they put their legs? My dd had her knees up by her ears (practically) by the time I turned her around.


have you tried a rolled up towel? are you installing it with LATCH or the seatbelt? in my car, with my seats, i can not get a tight installation rear facing with the LATCH, but i can with the seatbelt.


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## eorr (Jun 3, 2005)

Anyone watch the crash test video from the overhead view? It looked as though they strapped the head down. There's a large white strap going from the back of the chair, over the top of the head, to the forehead area.
Not that I'm disputing the safety of rf, but why wouldn't they play fair and show the exact same situation for both tests?


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## strollerfreak (Oct 20, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eorr*
Anyone watch the crash test video from the overhead view? It looked as though they strapped the head down. There's a large white strap going from the back of the chair, over the top of the head, to the forehead area.
Not that I'm disputing the safety of rf, but why wouldn't they play fair and show the exact same situation for both tests?

It's a data recorder tape IIRC, or some sort of other instrumentation cable. They use it to measure and record data on the head & spine for that specific situation.


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## strollerfreak (Oct 20, 2005)

I voted in regards to my DD, who turns 1 (gasp) in exactly one week.

She will not be turned around until she's older than 2, and even that is questionable. She is an extreme peanut...weighing in at a not so hefty 14lbs right now.
http://strollerfreak.itgo.com/family...ganWZ10mos.jpg

My ds#2 still rides RF occasionally when we need to configure the seats for the three of them across the middle row of my Suburban...he rode RF for the past week because of this. It doesn't bother him. This picture was taken last summer when I had to turn him FF because of the labeling on his Roundabout. (It dictated that it could only be used to a certain height RF, so even though he still fit very comfortably, and had never known anything else I turned him for liability reasons.)

http://cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/Reide.aspx

My ds#1 rode RF until he was a year old, then went FF, then back RF at 2.5yo until he hit the 33lb weight limit in his Marathon RF.

http://cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/ReillyMA.aspx

Oh, I'm a CPS Tech too...


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## Alkenny (May 4, 2004)

We switched the babe right around his first birthday. It was a week or so before. He hit 20 pounds by the time he was 3 months old, so it was a LONG time before the age and weight matched up.


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## mamabohl (May 21, 2005)

With my first son we turned it around as soon as he turned 1, he was HUGE and wedidn't know all the safety info. Now I'm not sure what to do. It just isn't as secure rear-facing...so I don't know if it's truly safer rear-facingor forward facing if it'smore secure forward facing...


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## bobandjess99 (Aug 1, 2005)

:

About 8-9 months? DD was 20 pounds by 4 months and by 8-9 months was about 26 pounds and had outgrown the height limit of the carseat for rear-facing. So, forward-facing it went, despite the 1 year criteria not having been met. FF helped TREMENDOUSLY with the "screaming-every-second-in-the-car" issue we had been having, so having an ENORMOUS child was really a blessing in disguise!


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## jackson'smama (May 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah*
I've heard you can put a Funnoodle in, but can't find a Funnoodle this time of year.

our local police and sheriff's offices keep "noodles" in stock to give to parents when they do seat installations and inspections. check with your local safety seat inspectors to see what they can do for you.

also, to get ours secure enough, i sit in the seat on my knees bearing my full weight while dh tightens the strap. then, he sits in it and we tighten the strap together. see if you can get someone to assist you. IMO, installing a safety seat is NOT a one person job, but that's just me...

now, for my little man, he's reached the minimums and is approaching his first birthday. i'd like to keep him RF, but he HATES car rides and i think that FF would remedy this. it won't be too bad soon b/c we're moving and the 1.75 hour commute that we make (sometimes a couple times per week) will cease. we still have those dreaded 5 hour trips to the inlaws though (dreaded not only b/c of carseat agony :LOL ). how do you handle that when you drive alone and baby is RF alone in the backseat and you really can't pull over? the other evening we were coming home and i stopped 3 or 4 times. he'd stop crying as soon as he was out of the seat. we'd nurse, talk, cuddle, walk. but as soon as i buckled him back in, the crying resumed. i don't want to short-cut on safety, but i don't want a miserable baby either. tips?


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## Rivka5 (Jul 13, 2005)

Our baby is looong - she outgrew the length requirements for her infant seat at 5 months, even though a month later she's still well below the weight requirements.

I want her to ride backward until she hits the limits for her seat. The weight limit is 30lbs - but she'll probably hit the height limit first again. Looking at a growth chart, I see that if she stays on track with her current weight she'll reach 30lbs when she's about 3. That seems reasonable.


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## luckylady (Jul 9, 2003)

it was about 1 week before DD turned 1 and she weighed 21 lbs. I remember how happy she was!


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## jenaniah (Nov 23, 2003)

was 1 and around 23 pounds, I couldn;t convince anyone to keep her rf longer and she honestly hated being rf (yes I have done the research and realize it is safer to have them rf as long as possible)







is 14 months and still rf and wil be until she reaches 20 pounds (probably closer to 18 months) Again convincing people it's better is a very difficult thing...I'm just glad she is still rf


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Wow, I am really amazed at how many people just go against the laws and common sense and don't wait until at least THE MINIMUM for turning around!







(1 year AND 20 lbs.)

Anyway, the poll didn't have an option for AT LEAST 1 year and 20 lbs. so I didn't vote. Dd was 20lbs. long before a year and we waited a few months after a year to turn her around.


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## bobandjess99 (Aug 1, 2005)

velochic said:


> Wow, I am really amazed at how many people just go against the laws and common sense and don't wait until at least THE MINIMUM for turning around!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## solstar (May 26, 2002)

Sometime after 2yrs, dd was a teeny thing!


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

bobandjess99 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> ...


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## Anka (Aug 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jackson'smama*
our local police and sheriff's offices keep "noodles" in stock to give to parents when they do seat installations and inspections. check with your local safety seat inspectors to see what they can do for you.

also, to get ours secure enough, i sit in the seat on my knees bearing my full weight while dh tightens the strap. then, he sits in it and we tighten the strap together. see if you can get someone to assist you. IMO, installing a safety seat is NOT a one person job, but that's just me...

now, for my little man, he's reached the minimums and is approaching his first birthday. i'd like to keep him RF, but he HATES car rides and i think that FF would remedy this. it won't be too bad soon b/c we're moving and the 1.75 hour commute that we make (sometimes a couple times per week) will cease. we still have those dreaded 5 hour trips to the inlaws though (dreaded not only b/c of carseat agony :LOL ). how do you handle that when you drive alone and baby is RF alone in the backseat and you really can't pull over? the other evening we were coming home and i stopped 3 or 4 times. he'd stop crying as soon as he was out of the seat. we'd nurse, talk, cuddle, walk. but as soon as i buckled him back in, the crying resumed. i don't want to short-cut on safety, but i don't want a miserable baby either. tips?

You could solve the "lone and bored in the back seat" by having him on the front passenger seat (and of course, DISABLE/REMOVE the air bag, if you have one there)


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## sarahmae1 (Nov 11, 2002)

Dh turned both my boys ff w/ out asking me! However, they were both over a year and well over 20bls.

DS1 was 13mos. and about 24lbs. and dh had to pick him up from daycare and put the carseat in FF. DS2 he switched at 16mos. when I was running an errand. DS2 was about 28/29lbs. and his seat only goes to 30lbs. rearfacing. He's 31lbs. now at 18mos. so he has to stay FF.


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## johub (Feb 19, 2005)

With my oldest 2 it was 20 lbs but that was before I knew better.
With my twins I had intended to keep them rearfacing till they reached the limit for the seat. But the truth was that they were uncomfortable,so we turned the seats at about 18 months. Some children might be perfectly happy to sit cross legged. Mine were not.
I think that my dd2 has restless legs like me and any confinement to them is unbearable.
Joline


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

I turned ds around when he got too tall to be RF in his seat- he was about 2.5 by that time.

I turned my DDs around much earlier because they didn't have such good carseats then- the convertible carseat, rearfacing, had the seatbelt go OVER the seat, which was a major hassle with an 18lb 14mo who wore shoes. I turned the girls around when they were about 18lbs and over a year old, but I would have kept them RF longer if I'd been able to.


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## Ceinwen (Jul 1, 2004)

Wow, I really never knew some of this info!

I turned dd around when she was eight months old, and she weighed about 23 lbs.

I guess I know better for next time!


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## BurnsideMommy (Jan 25, 2004)

We turned Austin around at 2 years, only because we had Hunter on the way and the seats side by side didn't fit with 2 rear facing.







We turned him around in the middle for 2 weeks, and when Hunter arrived we moved him to the outside and put Hunter in the middle. Both seats are Eddie Bauers (Alpha Omegas).

Hunter is still rear facing, and new babe is due around Hunter's 2nd birthday. Hopefully Hunter can stay rear facing longer than his 2nd birthday, closer to the weight limit on the car seat preferably. Otherwise my kiddos just get stuck front facing from 2 years on I guess.

We're getting new Britax Marathon seats from my Dad, so hopefully new babe & Hunter can stay rear facing at the same time, and Austin will remain front facing (he now gets car sick easy and turning him rear again would be not pretty).

My sister turned her developmentally delayed, special needs kiddo around at 10 months because he cried otherwise! Dad & I tried to educate her, but she's so stubborn. Thank goodness they weren't in an accident with her crazy driving.


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## bobandjess99 (Aug 1, 2005)

****Not to be snarky or anything, but guess what! I live in Indiana, too!! I know it's not law in Indiana to be RF. But there are studies that show that no matter the weight of a child, their neck muscles cannot withstand a crash forward-facing until after 1 year of age simply because of physical development. In your situation, I would put my dc's safety first and do whatever it takes to get a new carseat with higher RF limits. That's what I would do, and those are MY limits.

THis is a mainstream link, but explains why RF is so important.

http://parenting.ivillage.com/baby/...0,,9r5v,00.html ***

Hello fellow hoosier!!! And this is exactly my point.........I DO KNOW why the 1 year is recommended for RF, and yet I still feel okay turning her around sooner. My decision was completely informed. My point is that, even when armed with the same information, some people will make different decisions. It's just the way life goes...... Heck, what is it, something like 99% of US births take place in Hospitals? I can't imagine WHY ON EARTH someone would do that, except maybe in an extreme medically-indicated situation, but yet so many do it....people weigh different concerns differently, that's all.....So, despite knowing all the info there is, I still consider early FF to be the best carseat choice for our family. Even if I had a Britax Marathon given to me for free tomorrow, I would still let dd stay FF. A variety of factors go into my decision, and her physical safety is only one of those concerns.....and obviously, not the one i gave the most weight to. Oh, and at age 4, she'll most likely go into a regular car seat belt because my car doesn't have shoulder belts, only lap belts, so using a "booster" isn't possible for us. And I'm okay with that too.


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## Mirzam (Sep 9, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bobandjess99*
Oh, and at age 4, she'll most likely go into a regular car seat belt because my car doesn't have shoulder belts, only lap belts, so using a "booster" isn't possible for us. And I'm okay with that too.

I don't agree with your decision at all, I can't imagine anyone knowingly putting their child in danger, but that is my opinion and you are free to do what you wish with your children. Seeing as you like to know the facts before making a decision, even if that decision is somewhat questionable to say the least, I thought you might like to know how dangerous it is for a child, actually anybody, to ride in a car with just a lap belt, so I am giving you a link to a website run by a friend of mind who is one of the most knowledgable people I know on child passenger safety. Information on lap belts. Please be sure to click on the graphic which shows what happens to a six year old child in a lap belt in a crash. Just so you know, there are options for people who only have lap belts in the back of their cars to restrain their children safely. One of them only costs $55. Small price to pay to prevent, at best, serious internal injuries and, at worst, the death of a child. Worth considering don't you think?


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## momtokay (Apr 29, 2003)

I haven't read all the replies, but I turned my first around 2.5 yo. She was near the height limit and I was hugely pg and having a trouble getting her in tight enough rear facing.

My second is 2.5yo and still rear facing. She's rather short and is somewhere around 27 lbs so she'll be rear facing a good while longer. Since seeing those crash videos, I just can't bring myself to turn DD around until I have to. She can't easily straighten her legs, but she doesn't seem to care.


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## jenaniah (Nov 23, 2003)

bobandjess99 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> ...


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## shelley4 (Sep 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rainbow Brite*
I'd like to go to the max, but 40 sounds really big?


my DS is 4 years, 2 months and only 35 lbs. If I were to wait for 40 lbs, he could be closer to 5!

we turned him at a year. he was 21 lbs, and past the length recommendations


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## Mirzam (Sep 9, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rainbow Brite*
Dd is 14 months and we haven't turned around yet. Our max rear is 40lbs. I don't think I would keep her rear past age 3, but I'm not sure how long I'd keep rear. I'd like to go to the max, but 40 sounds really big?

Which car seat do you have? As far as I know no car seat in the US goes beyond 35 lbs RF, unless you have the special Volvo one which I didn't think was marketed in the US. In Sweden they routinely RF to 40 lbs and have a Britax seat which will RF to 55 lbs. These seats are very different to US seats and sit quite far away from the back of the car's own seat, and are tethered in a special way. I can't imagine, unless you live in Scandinavia you have one of these.

Just wondering.....


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

In AZ the law is:

Quote:

The driver will be cited if they fail to properly secure a child under 5 years of age in a child restraint device that meets federal standards.
NOTE: No weight limitation as of October 1, 1997
There is no law for turning the child around by a certain age, but they recommend at least 1 year AND 20 pounds.


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## Raynbow (Aug 2, 2004)

I waited past the requirement, and would have waited longer but my son was extremely unhappy facing backwards (I think he got carsick).


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

With ds#1, we turned it when he was a year and 20 pounds.

With dd, we turned it when she turned two because she was so squished. But she's still only 19 pounds.


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## Carolinamidwife (Dec 18, 2001)

Dd is 22 months and still rear-facing where she will remain until she meets the limit of her Roundabout. After learning what I have about crash physics there is nothing that would justify my turning her early.

Even if you have a bucket style seat you can consider switching to a convertable seat and keeping them rear-facing longer.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

I haven't turned the seats around yet because neither of my kids has reached the max rear-facing weight yet. BooBah is 16 months old and weighs 19.5 pounds; BeanBean is going to be three in a few weeks and weighs 29.5 pounds. If I have twins in April, I'll turn BeanBean around and move his seat to the back row of the van; otherwise, he'll stay where he is and I will not turn him around until a) he reaches the rear-facing weight or hieght limit [35 lbs] or b) NewBean needs to be put into a convertible seat [rather than an infant seat which can be easily retrieved from the back row of the van







].


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bobandjess99*
A variety of factors go into my decision, and her physical safety is only one of those concerns.....and obviously, not the one i gave the most weight to.









Am I the only one who finds that a little scary?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bobandjess99*
Oh, and at age 4, she'll most likely go into a regular car seat belt because my car doesn't have shoulder belts, only lap belts, so using a "booster" isn't possible for us. And I'm okay with that too.

http://www.parents.com/articles/health/2069.jsp?page=3

I do hope you never get in a car accident with your DD. I also hope you consider looking into the products uccomama mentioned. It seems like a small price to pay for the peace of mind knowing that your dd is at least a little more protected.


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## Rainbow Brite (Nov 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *uccomama*
Which car seat do you have? As far as I know no car seat in the US goes beyond 35 lbs RF, unless you have the special Volvo one which I didn't think was marketed in the US. In Sweden they routinely RF to 40 lbs and have a Britax seat which will RF to 55 lbs. These seats are very different to US seats and sit quite far away from the back of the car's own seat, and are tethered in a special way. I can't imagine, unless you live in Scandinavia you have one of these.

Just wondering.....


You are right, I just looked up the manual, 35lbs. It's the Eddie Bauer™ 'Elite' 3-in-1 Convertible Car Seat.

I must say your post is inspirational! Dd was 21lbs at 13 months, so we have a while to go till 35. Your post gives me the desire to go to the max. May I ask what your son thought about rf? My dd hates car rides which may determine how long we go rf. I am set to stay at least till 2yrs but would like longer.


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## MrsRoss (Aug 22, 2005)

my ds is only 10 mos old right now. he weighs about 25 lbs. i don't plan on turning him around on his first b-day like most car seats say you can. i want to keep him rf as long as possible so that he can be as safe as possible. we've been in accident, and ds, in his rf-ing seat, was the only one who was not injured.

we have a roundabout now. can someone tell me how long i can keep him rear-facing in it?


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## starlein26 (Apr 28, 2004)

we changed it at 1 year! he was a big boy at that point and he just hated the car seat. it's lonely when you're facing back!


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## solstar (May 26, 2002)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobandjess99
Oh, and at age 4, she'll most likely go into a regular car seat belt because my car doesn't have shoulder belts, only lap belts, so using a "booster" isn't possible for us. And I'm okay with that too.
dds ride in a car with lap belts. My 8 yr old sits in the front (no airbags) in a booster and my 5 yr old is in a FP Futura 20/60. If you can get your hands on one get it! they were discontinued in 2001 but I see them for sale by the carseat safety set. It would be much safer than lap belt alone.

In my car dds are in a booster and a Britax RA. My 5yr old is only 40lbs.


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## Carolinamidwife (Dec 18, 2001)

It's important to note that size has nothing to do with it. It is muscle integrity and skeletal maturity. So, even if your one year old weighs 25 pounds that doesn't mean his or her neck can withstand an accident. What happens is internal decapitation, something not worth the risk.

Also important is that all RF seats have a height limit as well, it should explain it in the manual. Oh, and also, be sure to understand which of the seatbelt slots on the seat are reinforced. AFAIK only Britax seats reinforce all of the strap slots so it makes a difference which slot you use. I saw horrible footage of a seat that had the entire harness area ripped out by non-reinforced strap slots.


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## mbhf (Jan 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StephandOwen*







Am I the only one who finds that a little scary?


no.


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## PadmaMorgana (Apr 14, 2004)

They were both around 18 months.

DS hit the weight limit around that time (33 pounds), DD we turned around at that time (she was 24 pounds) because she was a freaking nightmare rear facing and was getting worse. She is MUCH happier forward facing. Trips now don't include her screaming most of the way....


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bobandjess99*
A variety of factors go into my decision, and her physical safety is only one of those concerns.....and obviously, not the one i gave the most weight to. Oh, and at age 4, she'll most likely go into a regular car seat belt because my car doesn't have shoulder belts, only lap belts, so using a "booster" isn't possible for us. And I'm okay with that too.

All I can say is...









First of all, as of July 1, a child up to the age of 8 is REQUIRED BY LAW in Indiana to be in a booster. From the laws themselves, I quote: "Indiana state law requires children age 7 and under to ride in a federally approved car seat or booster seat that is appropriate for the child's height and weight. Indiana law also requires that the car seat or booster seat be installed and used according to the manufacturer's instructions. Children ages 8 to 16 must ride in a seat belt. The state of Indiana strongly encourages parents to place children in the back seat whenever possible, though this is not required by law."

So for starters, by putting your child in just a seatbelt, you are breaking the law. No biggie... we all do that sometimes.

But it absolutely makes me see RED when a mother blatantly says that they are not putting their child's physical safety first. I'm sorry, but I cannot see how a mother can put ANYTHING above the safety of her children. I just... I just... I really am just without words at this statement you've made. Even if it came down to being a money issue, I'd find ways of getting the money to make my dd's safety the #1 priority. I just can't believe you said what you said. WOW!!


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## Mirzam (Sep 9, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sheena*
Also important is that all RF seats have a height limit as well, it should explain it in the manual. Oh, and also, be sure to understand which of the seatbelt slots on the seat are reinforced. AFAIK only Britax seats reinforce all of the strap slots so it makes a difference which slot you use. I saw horrible footage of a seat that had the entire harness area ripped out by non-reinforced strap slots.









Here's a link to that photo in case anyone wants to see it. Broken car seat. The important thing is to read your manual, some covertible seats allow you to use the middle harness slots up to a certain weight (probably 30 lbs) and other can't. Those that have combo seats (the ones that convert to a booster over 40 lbs) don't need to worry because all the harness slots have been reinforced. Sheena is correct about Britax seats, all harness positions can be used FF.


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## Mirzam (Sep 9, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rainbow Brite*
You are right, I just looked up the manual, 35lbs. It's the Eddie Bauer™ 'Elite' 3-in-1 Convertible Car Seat.

I must say your post is inspirational! Dd was 21lbs at 13 months, so we have a while to go till 35. Your post gives me the desire to go to the max. May I ask what your son thought about rf? My dd hates car rides which may determine how long we go rf. I am set to stay at least till 2yrs but would like longer.

Toby never minded being RF as an older child. I explained to him he wasn't big enough to be FF (not exactly true, but he was under 33 lbs), so he was safer riding backwards. He never complained about being squished, and if you saw the photos I linked too, you will see he did look squished. He was sorry when his seat was turned around, he loved to tell me what was doing on out of the rear window. He was also a great help when backing up! He was a car screamer as a baby so he rarely rode in the car before he was 13 months old when he seemed to grow out of it. Thankfully we were able to walk almost everywhere.


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## srain (Nov 26, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic*
"Indiana state law requires children age 7 and under to ride in a federally approved car seat or booster seat that is appropriate for the child's height and weight. Indiana law also requires that the car seat or booster seat be installed and used according to the manufacturer's instructions. Children ages 8 to 16 must ride in a seat belt. The state of Indiana strongly encourages parents to place children in the back seat whenever possible, though this is not required by law."

Isn't the purpose of boosters to position the shoulder belt correctly? So if you're only using lap belts, wouldn't use of a booster seat be counterproductive?
(Obviously this doesn't address the argument that children shouldn't ride without a shoulder belt, but many many older cars do not have shoulder belts in the backseat.)


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## srain (Nov 26, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Anka*
You could solve the "lone and bored in the back seat" by having him on the front passenger seat (and of course, DISABLE/REMOVE the air bag, if you have one there)

Overall, backseats are considered safer. Is rear-facing in the front seat safer than forward-facing in the back? Anyone have any numbers? I plan to turn my hates-the-car-baby around as soon as she reaches the minimums, because I think she'll be less miserable that way, but she might be able to stand rear-facing in the front seat.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Boosters also position the lap belt correctly; most people (adults and kids alike) do not position their lap belts correctly when they get into a car, which can cause severe abdominal injuries in the event of an accident. A booster seat can ensure that the lap belt as well as the shoulder belt fits correctly around the child's body.

I've heard lots of people say that their kids didn't like to be rear-facing, or that they couldn't see out of the windows or things like that. I really don't understand it. My son has ridden forward-facing probably a half a dozen times in his life (in my sister's car







), but he's never complained about being rear-facing. He can certainly see out of the windows, in fact his view will be greatly diminished when he is eventually turned around. He's been cross-legged for at least a year now. He knows that there's an alternative to being rear-facing, but it would never occur to him to complain about it.







I guess I'm just wondering what sort of car unhappiness can actually be corrected/changed by turning the carseat around?


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## bobandjess99 (Aug 1, 2005)

Listen, truce, okay? I'm not a bad person, nor do i wish to be in an argument. I am actually very non-confrontational, some might say meek. i know this is a "hot button" issue for some people. That's fine. Of course I love my child. But, I do believe there are things in life equally important as physical safety. I truly do consider my child's mental/emotional state to be important. I find it interesting that some parents, who would not , for example, put their child in a crib to CIO, think it is okay to put them in a carseat to CIO, when the child's unhappiness can be relieved by simply turning the carseat FF. I have to consider the odds of being in a crash, not only a crash, but a crash in which the direction of the carseat will make a difference in the physical safety of my child...and weight that against the 100% certainty that my child will suffer extreme emotional distress from being RF, and when I do the math, I simply come up with a different answer than you do. To imply that i do not care about my child is just wrong. I love her more than anything. I make tough decisions everyday about what is best for her...I weighed the safety of having her in the hospital vs. at home, i weigh the risks of vaxxing vs. not, the risks of co-sleeping vs crib sleeping..I make tought decisions every day. .if I happen to make a choice..or two ..or three, that are different from yours, well, that's life. I truly do care about her. And yes, scare tactics can be powerful, but disgusting pictures of children who were injured and killed in accidents is a cheap emotional ploy, and I prefer to rely on facts, statistics, my heart and direction from God when making important decisions for my child. I am not swayed by that type of graphic "persuasion", just as I would not be swayed by photos of a child who had died while co-sleeping, or during a homebirth, or who died from a "vaccine preventable" disease. There is no way to be 100% safe. I have to go with what i feel is best.

As per the Indiana law, there actually is a clause for people who do not have shoulder belts, and it clearly states that children over 40 pounds MAY ride in a lap only belt, if that is the only belt available.

From the Indiana Code:
IC 9-19-11-3.7
Exception; child over 40 pounds; lap safety belt
Sec. 3.7. Notwithstanding sections 2, 3, 3.3, and 3.6 of this chapter, a person may operate a motor vehicle in which there is a

child who weighs more than forty (40) pounds and who is properly restrained and fastened by a lap safety belt if:
(1) the motor vehicle is not equipped with lap and shoulder safety belts;

As for there being products to use with lap only belts, THANK YOU for telling me about them. When I realized that my car only had lap belts, and therefore could not be used with a booster (As I was practicing trying to install the booster I had bought!!) I called my local POLICE DEPT.!!, and was told that after my child outgrew the 40 pound weight limit of my carseat, dd would have to ride in just the lap belt. They did not mention anything about any products I could get to make it safer. I will certainly look into such products. I simply did not know of their existence, and apparently, neither do my local police, at least the officer I spoke to.
All right. I'm done. Best wishes to everyone and the choices they make for their families.


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## Mirzam (Sep 9, 2002)

Quote:

As for there being products to use with lap only belts, THANK YOU for telling me about them. When I realized that my car only had lap belts, and therefore could not be used with a booster (As I was practicing trying to install the booster I had bought!!) I called my local POLICE DEPT.!!, and was told that after my child outgrew the 40 pound weight limit of my carseat, dd would have to ride in just the lap belt. They did not mention anything about any products I could get to make it safer. I will certainly look into such products. I simply did not know of their existence, and apparently, neither do my local police, at least the officer I spoke to.
Just because the local police department say it is within the law to use a lapbelt, it doesn't make a safe option, the only thing, whatever the law might state, that a lap belt is good for is installing a car seat. You can either put your child in a harnessed car seat that is rated over 40 lbs, for example the Britax Marathon/Decathlon/Boulevard/Wizard which are rated to 65# or the Britax Husky rated to 80#, the Cosco Apex 65 which harnesses to 65# and then converts to a booster, or there are special vests like these. If you are not inclined to do any of these things, then your child is safer in a booster in the front with the seat pushed all the way back. I don't know why the police department didn't tell you that, they obviously don't know much about child passenger safety. You need to discuss your situation with a certified child passenger safety technician not any old police officer who is likely to know diddly about what options are available to you, all he can do is quote the law. I recommend you try and find a technician in your area, you can find one online here or here. FWIW, I birthed my children at home (the youngest was a UC), I don't vaccinate, my children co-slept and I do not let them CIO, but I do take the safety of my children in the car very seriously which is why I would never knowingly take the less safe option.

Please take the time to read this web site, it will help you make a much more informed decision when it comes to child safety: http://cpsafety.com/default.aspx there are plently of statistics for you to base your decisions on.

BTW, I must have missed the photos of the dead children.







:


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## Anka (Aug 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *srain*
Overall, backseats are considered safer. Is rear-facing in the front seat safer than forward-facing in the back? Anyone have any numbers? I plan to turn my hates-the-car-baby around as soon as she reaches the minimums, because I think she'll be less miserable that way, but she might be able to stand rear-facing in the front seat.

I can't bring you any numbers, but yes, there is research, at least in sweden, that conclusively shows that back-facing is always safer. The protective effect being 90-95% when back-facing, and 50-60% when forward-facing.

The reason why sitting in the back seat is considered safer I would guess is because you get further away from the point of impact, and so, are less likely to hit part of the structure.

In Sweden the recomendation is to have the kid in the front seat (or the smallest kid, if there are more then one) just because if you are the only adult in the car, you are less likely to get distracted by a fussing kid, have an easier time keeping an eye on it, and the kid will have far better contact with you, being able to see your face.

ETA: Crash tests has shown that a CR in a back-facing position, in the front seat and braced against the instrument panel provides slightly better protection then a back-facing CR in the back seat braced against the front seat in a frontal collision, which also is the most common type of collisions. (at least in sweden)


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## srain (Nov 26, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eilonwy*
I've heard lots of people say that their kids didn't like to be rear-facing, or that they couldn't see out of the windows or things like that. I really don't understand it. My son has ridden forward-facing probably a half a dozen times in his life (in my sister's car







), but he's never complained about being rear-facing. .....I guess I'm just wondering what sort of car unhappiness can actually be corrected/changed by turning the carseat around?

Well, you're lucky. Just because your son doesn't have a problem with riding rear-facing doesn't mean that other kids don't. 1-year-olds usually can not articulate their objections to riding rear-facing, so I don't know the reasons why facing them forward improves their experience, but my son cried much less after we faced him forward, and I have heard many many other parents say the same thing. Maybe it's because they can see better; maybe they feel less nauseous; maybe it's because they can see the driver better; maybe it's because the seats are less reclined- I don't know, but a lot of parents have found that it makes a big difference.


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## srain (Nov 26, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *uccomama*
the only thing, whatever the law might state, that a lap belt is good for is installing a car seat.

Really? You feel it's just as safe to ride with no belts at all as to ride with just a lap belt?


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## srain (Nov 26, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Anka*
I can't bring you any numbers, but yes, there is research, at least in sweden, that conclusively shows that back-facing is always safer. The protective effect being 90-95% when back-facing, and 50-60% when forward-facing.

Thanks!


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eilonwy*
I've heard lots of people say that their kids didn't like to be rear-facing, or that they couldn't see out of the windows or things like that. I really don't understand it. My son has ridden forward-facing probably a half a dozen times in his life (in my sister's car







), but he's never complained about being rear-facing.

I've been one of the people here urging others to keep their kids RF as long as possible, but I have to reply to this comment.

My dd was about 4 months old when she first protested about being RF. We were about 1 hour from home on the opposite side of the city when she just totally freaked out. She was so frantic that she made herself throw up. I pulled over and comforted her (nursed her). To make a long day/story short, I had to stop at my dh's office and have him ride home with us because she was completely freaked out. For the next 10 MONTHS, I could not drive anywhere because dd could not handle me being out of her sight. The only time I went ANYWHERE was when I could be in the back seat with her. Her panic attacks at not seeing me is THE ONE AND ONLY reason we turned her around when we did at 14 months. I planned to let her RF until the seat (Marathon) limits, but I became so distraught at not being able to go anywhere, it was MY mental health at risk. And FWIW - she was the same way in the stroller, so even walking anywhere was out of the question. Yes, there are some kids for whom RF is an issue. I still don't advocate turning them sooner, but I think once the recommendations are met, it can mean the difference between a happy and unhappy mommy.

And to add to that... when I vowed to never let dd CIO, that meant the car, too, for me.


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic*
I've been one of the people here urging others to keep their kids RF as long as possible, but I have to reply to this comment.

My dd was about 4 months old when she first protested about being RF. We were about 1 hour from home on the opposite side of the city when she just totally freaked out. She was so frantic that she made herself throw up. I pulled over and comforted her (nursed her). To make a long day/story short, I had to stop at my dh's office and have him ride home with us because she was completely freaked out. For the next 10 MONTHS, I could not drive anywhere because dd could not handle me being out of her sight. The only time I went ANYWHERE was when I could be in the back seat with her. Her panic attacks at not seeing me is THE ONE AND ONLY reason we turned her around when we did at 14 months. I planned to let her RF until the seat (Marathon) limits, but I became so distraught at not being able to go anywhere, it was MY mental health at risk. And FWIW - she was the same way in the stroller, so even walking anywhere was out of the question. Yes, there are some kids for whom RF is an issue. I still don't advocate turning them sooner, but I think once the recommendations are met, it can mean the difference between a happy and unhappy mommy.

And to add to that... when I vowed to never let dd CIO, that meant the car, too, for me.


I hope that by doing that, you never face a tragedy, but more power to you.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TinkerBelle*
I hope that by doing that, you never face a tragedy, but more power to you.














































Did I miss something?


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## Mirzam (Sep 9, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *srain*
Really? You feel it's just as safe to ride with no belts at all as to ride with just a lap belt?

Obvioulsy no I don't. But there is no way I will permit any of my children to ride in a car with a lap belt only except in a dire emergency. As I said in my above post it is safer to be in the front in a booster with the seat all the way back than riding in the back with a lap belt. The point is lap belts aren't safe for anyone, riding in a car without a seat belt isn't safe either, but children are especially at risk from severe internal injuries from the lap belt in a crash. So if push comes to shove, put the adult in the lap belt not the child.


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## Mirzam (Sep 9, 2002)

*A post to those who have turned their infants forward facing early or at earliest opportunity.*

If there is nothing that will make you change your mind and turn your babies back RF, whatever your reasons, please make sure you have your seats installed correctly. You need to ensure that there is no more than one inch of movement at the belt path, that you have the harness in the correct slot -- at or just above the shoulders, and that it in an approved FF position. Also you need to keep it flat and snug, by snug it needs to be snug on the shoulders, like a bra; if you can pinch any of the harness at the shoulders, then it is too loose. The chest clip should be at armpit height. Also, I would urge those that don't have top anchor tethers in their cars get them installed. An anchored car seat performs much, much better in a crash than one that isn't. It limits head excursion. In Australia, they tend to turn their babies early, even as early as six months old but they must tether their car seats by law. This has shown to greatly reduce the injuries in young infants.


----------



## Carolinamidwife (Dec 18, 2001)




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## Monkeyfeet (Feb 5, 2005)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lizziejackie
We turned it at one year b/c the little one wanted to see Christmas lights. She didn't surpass 20 until 18 mo and I wasn't about to keep her turned that long. I know it's illegal...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa*
It is not illegal to keep children rear facing as long as they are within the weight and height limits. In fact, it is encouraged because it is safest.


I think that Lizzie was saying that she knows that it was illegal to turn her dd at a year, because she did not reach 20# untl she turned 18 months.

My dd is 12 months, 22 1/2 # and we weill not be turning her until she reaches the limit for RF. Now I need to go read up on what that is!


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *uccomama*
*A post to those who have turned their infants forward facing early or at earliest opportunity.*

If there is nothing that will make you change your mind and turn your babies back RF, whatever your reasons, please make sure you have your seats installed correctly. You need to ensure that there is no more than one inch of movement at the belt path, that you have the harness in the correct slot -- at or just above the shoulders, and that it in an approved FF position. Also you need to keep it flat and snug, by snug it needs to be snug on the shoulders, like a bra; if you can pinch any of the harness at the shoulders, then it is too loose. The chest clip should be at armpit height. Also, I would urge those that don't have top anchor tethers in their cars get them installed. An anchored car seat performs much, much better in a crash than one that isn't. It limits head excursion. In Australia, they tend to turn their babies early, even as early as six months old but they must tether their car seats by law. This has shown to greatly reduce the injuries in young infants.


Your post assumes that people who turn their children around earlier than others don't know how to install a car seat. It also assumes that these same people don't know how to put their kids in the car seat. How about addressing your post to everyone instead of making assumptions?


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## Mirzam (Sep 9, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic*
Your post assumes that people who turn their children around earlier than others don't know how to install a car seat. It also assumes that these same people don't know how to put their kids in the car seat. How about addressing your post to everyone instead of making assumptions?

Defensive aren't we? I did not assume that at all, you took it that way. It's wonderful that you know how to install and use a car seat correctly, good for you and your DC. The truth of the matter is eighty percent of car seats are misused, according to the NTSHA, but 95 percent of parents think otherwise. Of course everyone needs to have their car seat installed and used correctly, but RF is somewhat more forgiving and it is inherently safer. So if you do have a young child FF when they are still within the RF limits of their car seat, you really do need to make sure the seat is installed and used correctly. That was my point.


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## Rainbow Brite (Nov 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *uccomama*
*A post to those who have turned their infants forward facing early or at earliest opportunity.*

If there is nothing that will make you change your mind and turn your babies back RF, whatever your reasons, please make sure you have your seats installed correctly. You need to ensure that there is no more than one inch of movement at the belt path, that you have the harness in the correct slot -- at or just above the shoulders, and that it in an approved FF position. Also you need to keep it flat and snug, by snug it needs to be snug on the shoulders, like a bra; if you can pinch any of the harness at the shoulders, then it is too loose. The chest clip should be at armpit height. Also, I would urge those that don't have top anchor tethers in their cars get them installed. An anchored car seat performs much, much better in a crash than one that isn't. It limits head excursion. In Australia, they tend to turn their babies early, even as early as six months old but they must tether their car seats by law. This has shown to greatly reduce the injuries in young infants.


A couple of questions. We are rf, and plan to stay that way, but I'm assuming these go for rf as well? The chest clip should be at armpit height? Not collar bone? And what is a car seat tether, does it only apply with ff?

Thanks!


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## Rainbow Brite (Nov 2, 2004)

When did he/she outgrow that if you left him rf? My dd is getting so much better, but I really never leave the house unless dh is home so one of us can be there with her. I would like to leave so I don't go







but her happiness is important to me, so we stay home. Lately she won't sit down, so we don't leave, and I'm just hoping she will some day be a bit happier in the car so we can go places together. I'm not willing to put her ff for this, and I'm not willing to have her upset, so we stay home, but we live in the country, so walking is not an option. Fortunantly I'm a homebody, but would still like to get out w/out dh a bit, so looking for some positive stories where rf kids suddenly were ok


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rainbow Brite*
A couple of questions. We are rf, and plan to stay that way, but I'm assuming these go for rf as well? The chest clip should be at armpit height? Not collar bone? And what is a car seat tether, does it only apply with ff?

Thanks!

The chest clip should be at arm pit level and the harness should be at or below shoulders for rf. The tether I'll let someone with more experience answer. I think I know the answer but dont want to give out wrong info!


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic*
Your post assumes that people who turn their children around earlier than others don't know how to install a car seat. It also assumes that these same people don't know how to put their kids in the car seat. How about addressing your post to everyone instead of making assumptions?

I don't think she meant it that way, nor did I read it that way. Not everyone does know how to correctly install a carseat. And some people think they do but are doing it wrong. Using the statistics uccomama stated only 2 of every 10 kids are in properly installed carseats. Not good odds that everyone reading this thread knows how to and has properly installed a carseat. Might I also suggest that EVERYONE go to a carseat check to make sure they're installed correctly.

FWIW I didn't know half what I do about carseats until I started browsing car seat boards and asking questions. To assume every parent knows EVERYTHING about installing carseats is just wrong. I would rather give out info that a few people know just to get it to those who don't.


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## Mirzam (Sep 9, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rainbow Brite*
When did he/she outgrow that if you left him rf? My dd is getting so much better, but I really never leave the house unless dh is home so one of us can be there with her. I would like to leave so I don't go







but her happiness is important to me, so we stay home. Lately she won't sit down, so we don't leave, and I'm just hoping she will some day be a bit happier in the car so we can go places together. I'm not willing to put her ff for this, and I'm not willing to have her upset, so we stay home, but we live in the country, so walking is not an option. Fortunantly I'm a homebody, but would still like to get out w/out dh a bit, so looking for some positive stories where rf kids suddenly were ok










For us it was when I moved DS from his infant carrier to a convertible car seat at 13 months. He couldn't tell why, but I suspect it was because he was more comfortable, our infant seat didn't have much padding.


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## Mirzam (Sep 9, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rainbow Brite*
A couple of questions. We are rf, and plan to stay that way, but I'm assuming these go for rf as well? The chest clip should be at armpit height? Not collar bone? And what is a car seat tether, does it only apply with ff?

Thanks!

As the chest clip question has been answered, I will address the tether question. In your case -- I believe you have the Cosco Alpha Omega, but I haven't checked back through the thread to make sure. Anyway, the tether is the long strap with a clip at the back of the car seat. It is generally only used for FF seats, with one major (current) exception -- Britax convertible car seats, these can also be tethered RF too. See here for info on how to tether Britax RF (NB -- some of the info maybe out of date for some vehicles). All new cars today come with LATCH with includes the tether anchor which the strap attaches too, check your car's manual to find out where it is located. In older cars, generally pre 2000, they are not factory installed, but can be done at dealerships, some manufacturers will do one anchor for free. I would post on one of the dedicated car seat boards like Parent's Place for specific info from techs on your car if you need to do this. In Canada, it is law to tether a car seat, and I believe all cars later than 1989 will have anchors factory installed.

As I mentioned in one of my above posts, tethering a car seat FF will greatly reduced head excusion and will make the seat considerable safer, so it really is a good idea to get this done if you have an older car without LATCH (from 2002 onwards) or tether anchors (pre 2000).

I am including a link to Car-safety.org which has a great explaination on LATCH and top tethers: http://www.car-safety.org/latch.html


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## Carolinamidwife (Dec 18, 2001)

We have our RF Britax tethered as it shows in that link and it makes a WORLD of difference. If I had a RF seat that did not tether I might consider buying one that did. Her seat is un-budgable (is that a word?) no matter how hard I try to rock it. Without the tether I can wiggle it free so that it can actually be flopped back against the back seat.









My baby was and sometimes is unhappy in the car. Someone equated leaving them RF to cry-it-out but I seriously disagree with that comparison. There are times when dd would have to ride in the car as an infant (like picking ds up) and she would cry cry cry. There was nothing I could do. She was 2 months old; should I have turned her around? IMO it makes no more sense to FF a 12 month old than it does a 2 month old just for the purpose of making them happier in the car. Yes, they might cry while in the car but THEY WILL LIVE through crying.... they might not live through an accident if not properly restrained.


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## Shaunam (Oct 8, 2004)

DS is already past 20 lbs, but he's only 9 months old. I will wait until he is at least a year to turn it. I will probably keep him rear-facing until he hits the max weight (33 lbs) or close to it. The longer they rear-face the better!


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## mamabohl (May 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *uccomama*
See here

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

with my first baby I turned her around at 10 months, she was 20 pounds and I wanted to be able to see her.

With my second I turned him around at 14 months because we were taking a long road trip.

My third is 8 months and rear-facing and I plan on keeping him that way until atleast 18 months.

I know better now than I did when I had my first baby


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## Carolinamidwife (Dec 18, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoDNJ*

I know better now than I did when I had my first baby

Ain't that the truth! I could say that about just about every subject, lol.


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## greenmansions (Feb 16, 2005)

I voted not turned yet.

DS is 19 months old, and is a big kid - 36 inches tall and 29 pounds. We have the Britax Roundabout which will go to 33 pounds RF and til his ears reach the top of the seat.

We are expecting baby #2 in early February will have to turn him around then reagrdless of his size. Right now his seat is in the middle of the backseat, but when it has to be moved to accomodate a second seat in the back, it will no longer fit RF.

We have a Subaru wagon, and a RF carseat hits the seats in front. There's not enough legroom for the front seat riders if we move the seats up enough for the carseat to fit. Even the bucket seat we have hits the seats in front, so that one will go behind the passenger seat, RF, and DS will go behind the driver, FF. It doesn't help that DH is tall, so he needs a lot of leg room if he's driving.


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## SneakyPie (Jan 13, 2002)

Turned at 9 months -- son was 23 lbs at that point & we're in an whichever-comes-first state. Would've turned him sooner had I known that -- *miserable* in the car rear-facing, no matter how short the journey.


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## joandsarah77 (Jul 5, 2005)

Your poll didn't have our reason for turning. While ds was at least 23 lb and 12 months, that wasn't why we turned him. We actualy had to turn him as his shoulders were becoming higher then the highest strap position. lol good going for a guy who was only 5lb 4 oz at birth!








It's a convertable seat (Australian) ment to last till about 3-4 years I think, but I can't see it lasting anywere near that long unless ds dosn't grow much in the torso.

Those photos of rear facing children are intresting, I've never seen that. I don't think we have any seats designed to do that over here. All convertables are in a semi lay back position when rear facing here.


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## sleet76 (Jun 2, 2004)

I turned her at about 22 months. I was having another baby any day, and couldn't fit two car seats rear-facing in my car. I had to put the new baby rear-facing behind the passenger seat, and couldn't fit a seat rear-facing behind the driver seat and maintain enough distance to drive and to stay far enough away from the airbag. I can't fit a seat in the center seat with the two seats I have. I am a total believer in keeping them rear-facing as long as possible. She is plenty small enough to still be rear-facing; she has about 6 pounds to do to her seat's weight limit.


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## aydensmama (Jun 2, 2005)

I voted other. Ds hated the car. He was 10 months and hadn't had a doc appointment in a while, well I was sure he was 20lbs, and we were going on a 3.5 hour car ride. I told myself we would see if it helped, and turn him back around till he was one after that. Well..... he loved it and the scream fests were gone, only had to stop and nurse once during the car ride. I kept him facing front, once again sure he was 20lbs. and found out at the 11 mth check up that he was only 19. I couldn't torture him so I strped him in tight and I pray! He has wonderful head control and has been walking since 9.5 months! I know, not good, but it keeps us sane!


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## janellesmommy (Jun 6, 2004)

My 2 1/2 year old daughter is 26 pounds, and is still rear facing in her Britax Advantage. The rear facing weight limit for this carseat is 33 pounds, so for maximum safety she will remain rear facing until she reaches 33 pounds, regardless of her age.


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## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

I haven't turned my DS (9months 22lbs) yet and am undecided about when I'll turn him. I'd like to wait till he hits the weight max (33 lbs) but he gets hysterical in the car so we'll see how he's doing at one year. He's been doing better and better (so long as he's well rested/fed/entertained) so thats been working for us. I'm hoping that when he's older the Portable DVD player we got for him will hold his attention better.







:


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## Mirzam (Sep 9, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *joandsarah77*
Your poll didn't have our reason for turning. While ds was at least 23 lb and 12 months, that wasn't why we turned him. We actualy had to turn him as his shoulders were becoming higher then the highest strap position. lol good going for a guy who was only 5lb 4 oz at birth!








It's a convertable seat (Australian) ment to last till about 3-4 years I think, but I can't see it lasting anywere near that long unless ds dosn't grow much in the torso.

Those photos of rear facing children are intresting, I've never seen that. I don't think we have any seats designed to do that over here. All convertables are in a semi lay back position when rear facing here.

I am confused, in the US a child in a RF seat must have the straps at or BELOW the shoulder. FF seats are where the harness must be at or ABOVE the shoulders. Why would crash dynamics be different in Australia? I don't think it has anything to do with being south of the Equator!

It is interesting because Australia has had tethered seats for ages which is such an important safety feature, but in other areas such as extended harnessing the Aussies are well behind. Your boosters leave a lot to be desired too.


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## dallaschildren (Jun 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *uccomama*
I am confused, in the US a child in a RF seat must have the straps at or BELOW the shoulder. FF seats are where the harness must be at or ABOVE the shoulders. Why would crash dynamics be different in Australia? I don't think it has anything to do with being south of the Equator!

I don't think it is crash dynamics that are different. It is the way the seats are made, designed, and crash tested. There are different crash test standards for safety seats throughout much of the world. Edited to add, there are different vehicle safety standards as well.

Dallaschildren
CPS tech and mom to 2 sons in seats


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## Mirzam (Sep 9, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dallaschildren*
I don't think it is crash dynamics that are different. It is the way the seats are made, designed, and crash tested. There are different crash test standards for safety seats throughout much of the world. Edited to add, there are different vehicle safety standards as well.

Dallaschildren
CPS tech and mom to 2 sons in seats









I know all that.







I guess the Aussie seats are like the Fisher Price ones, in that the child's shoulders can be below the harness slots when RF, but FP also allowed them to be below too. I made the comment because I have never heard of any standards which state the shoulders must be below the the harness slots when RF. European seats certainly aren't like that.


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## Mirzam (Sep 9, 2002)

Well, I have been doing some research and the recommendation in Australia is for RF for the shoulders to be at or above the top harness slots and must not be below the shoulders. This is the total opposite for US seats. Interesting.....


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## johub (Feb 19, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eilonwy*







I guess I'm just wondering what sort of car unhappiness can actually be corrected/changed by turning the carseat around?

Some people get very uncomfortable , bordering on claustrophobic, at not being able to move their legs freely. So while my children are all comfortable sitting cross legged, they are not comfortable sitting crossed legged with no other alternatives for long periods of time.
At least one of my children has restless legs like I do. (she even hated cosleeping because that might mean I would touch her legs while she slept)
So while I do appreciate the safety of remaining rear facing, there are comfort issues for some children, if not for others.


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## Carolinamidwife (Dec 18, 2001)

Since we are on the subject does anyone have any ideas why mainstream carseat info has not caught up to longer rear-facing recommendations? We were just at the ped and the hand-out had the standard turn at 12 months or 20 pounds info. Why not catch up?


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## becca011906 (Mar 29, 2004)

My first turned at 10 months past 20lbs. didn't know any better.
My second stayed backwards till she was 36 months (2 months before dd2 was born). she was about 28lbs when we switched and it was b/c she was to tall for a confirtable car seat anymore and needed a booster seat.
My third is still rear facing at 21lbs and 14months old. She will stay that way till she reached weight limit or hight for rear facing, also we did turn her around when we took a road trip to fl but it got fliped as sson as we were home.


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