# Is it REALLY gross, or are people just uptight?



## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

In the last few weeks, I have gotten SO many comments from friends, family, and nosy strangers about the way I let my DD play outside. I guess it's pretty unusual for most people that I let her crawl around in the grass and the dirt and that it really doesn't bother me when she tries tasting the dirt, or the sticks, or the rocks. I don't let her put small rocks or pebbles in her mouth (choking) and I NEVER let her play anywhere where there's trash or any kind of toxic like lawn chemicals, etc., but I just don't see the harm in her getting dirty. She digs, and rubs it in her hair, and generally gets muddy and paddles in puddles and all that. Babies are washable, right, and I'd rather see her gnawing on sticks than on some toy full of PVC. I'd rather give her a bath when we get home than stick her in a stroller and prevent her from exploring the real world. But people keep STARING at us and making all kinds of comments, and I'm wondering if I'm out of line here. Even taking her out in the rain (even though it's over 90 here) seems to cause people to think I'm abusive or neglectful. What IS it with this super-clean thing? Am I the only one who just doesn't care all that much about dirt?


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## RedWine (Sep 26, 2003)

I'm with you -- little kids are SUPPOSED to get dirty, in my opinion. It is good for them to get dirty! Sensory experiences, and all that.

I too get looks from people, especially when we're at the playground and dd is covering herself (and sometimes me) in mulch. I think it's great, I actively encourage it.


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## Threefold (Nov 27, 2001)

Well, I'm just like you. My dcs are often filthy at the end of the day. In fact that's our marker of how good the day was! :LOL

If people comment I say, "Well, since we don't vaccinate, I figure they've got to get a little boost to the immune system somehow." :LOL









I don't get super-clean, either.







:


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## AllyRae (Dec 10, 2003)

LOL...what fun is going outside to a kid if they can't get dirty? Heck, I let my kid play outside completely naked sometimes, and he comes in caked in all sorts of dirt and grass stains. And he had a blast doing it (and even more fun with the bath afterwards :LOL )


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## Momto2boysNagirl (Aug 24, 2003)

I'm with you! My mother is obsessed with being clean. As soon as one of my kids gets anything on them she is chasing after them with a wet paper towel. I don't think the parents at my sons basebal game like me much either. Their kids saw mine playing in the dirt and joined right in...:LOL


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Another vote for "people are just uptight."


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## meowmix (Jul 14, 2005)

If only I could convince my kids that it's fun to get dirty! My 4 yr old is going through a stage where if any part of his clothes gets a speck of dirt or drop of water on it he needs to change before he like melts away or something. It's really a big issue! He must change clothes like 10 times a day.

But I never made a big fuss about them getting dirty either. I love puddle jumping when it's been raining!


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## PinkSunfish (Oct 20, 2002)

They are uptight and weird. Getting mucky is fun and very good for you in all sorts of ways.


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## babydoll (Apr 30, 2003)

I have a just turned 3 year old and I have to tell myself that is is normal for her to play outside and get dirty and that is part of life and learning. I don't know how old your baby is, but I confess I would be staring too if I saw a baby covered in mud making mud patties - especially at a park. Consider the germs, bacteria, and parasites you don't see. How many cats have walked through there and used it without you seeing - just because you don't see poop doesn't mean they haven't been doing it. Ringworm, ecoli, histoplasmosis (disease from bird droppings) are to name a few. Not to mention things like bugs, stickers, etc. that could scratch or injure your baby. A stick is not a safe toy for a baby - they could poke themself in the eye! As they saying goes God made dirt and (a little) dirt don't hurt - but consider how dirty are you letting your child get? I have seen mom's doing this a few times at the park and it drives me nuts. I think it does border on neglectful parenting. As a parent it is our job to keep our children safe. I think you have to use comon sense.

ANother thing - every once in awhile I will be at the grocery store or shopping and I will see a dirty filthy kid/baby sitting in the shopping cart while the mother is shopping. THat is absolutely neglectful! I want to tap them on the shoulder and say - "ever heard of soap? -it is cheap!"

( that is a huge pet peeve of mine!)


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

My DD is usually totally filthy at the end of the day. (As am I!) I don't let her actually chew on sticks (splinters in the mouth would be not so fun) or eat dirt (we do get stray cats in the yard sometimes) but she certainly is not a clean child. :LOL I would let her play with mud depending on what she was wearing (some of her clothes are on loan and have to be returned to friends/relatives).


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

My kids are the same. I think it's natural for them to explore their new world.

A friend of ours moved here 5 years ago from Brazil and her son is just like ours. But, she says it's really hard when they go home to visit b/c she doesn't feel as safe letting him play w/nature, etc.


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## mamalisa (Sep 24, 2002)

My dad always comments on how great it is that I don't care if ds gets dirty or gets his clothes dirty. My mom was a total freak about dirt and would be furious if we came home dirty. Just normal park dirt (not even digging) and we would have to take our clothes off on the back porch. I encourage it dirty play. I never met a kid that wouldn't come clean with some soaking, soap and water. I never met a stain I couldn't get out.

I was a lot more careful at the park than in our own backyard, just because there was always a lot of crap in the sand. Our park here is pretty clean so I dont' worry at all.


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## abac (Mar 10, 2005)

The dirtier the kid, the more fun they're having. I do limit what goes in his mouth, though. I've known too many kids with worms. Shudder.


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## Jade2561 (Jun 12, 2005)

I'm glad it's not just me! DD loves to get her hands in the mud-rub it all over her body; totes sticks and rocks as she run around the lawn...thats what kids are supposed to do right? People are weird - children and messes go together


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## Stacymom (Jul 7, 2002)

My kids are routinely filthy by the end of the day. We have a new house, and don't have our yard in yet, but we do have a fenced in backyard, and they love to go out and play and dig in the dirt. I hate having all the dirt in my house, but that's another story. My youngest (2 yrs) likes to taste everything- and routinely is putting rocks, dirt, and grass in her mouth. (I think she has some issues with pica and iron deficiency, and we're taking her to the Dr next week...) I mean, I watch them closely, but I really have no problem with them getting dirty and having fun outside. Seriously, I can't stand when I hear moms yelling at their kids in the park because they are playing in the dirt- isn't that what parks are for?

Quote:

ANother thing - every once in awhile I will be at the grocery store or shopping and I will see a dirty filthy kid/baby sitting in the shopping cart while the mother is shopping. THat is absolutely neglectful! I want to tap them on the shoulder and say - "ever heard of soap? -it is cheap!"
Okay, I'm really not trying to cause trouble, but this really bothers me. You have no idea what might be going on when you see a mother and a dirty child. Sometimes I'll be out with my kids, and no matter how hard I try, they get dirty, spill something on their clothes etc. We can be making a five minute trip somewhere, and we'll leave with clean clothes, and arrive somewhere with a shirt stained, a mouth covered in chocolate milk, and there's no way I'm going to turn around and go back home because my kid has a dirty shirt on. My youngest will not wear shoes for more than 30 seconds at a time, and goes barefoot everywhere because of that, so yes, her feet look filthy most of the time. But it's better that than fighting the "Put on your sandals" battle every five minutes. And there are other times where we've been to the park for a few hours, and we stop at the grocery store on the way home for something we need for dinner. I'm not going to leave my kids in the car, and I don't always carry a change of clothes or wet wipes with me so that they can be more "presentable" in the grocery store. Sorry. They're kids, and getting dirty is what they do.

Besides, one of my great pleasures is having a really dirty kid, getting them in the bath at night, and seeing them get all clean and come out smelling so good!


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## septmommy (Dec 21, 2003)

I let my son get as dirty as he wants! I love it. I think you sound like an awesome mama, llyra. As for dirty kids in the supermarket, well, to each their own. If you saw us in the market I can almost guarantee he would be filthy, but he'd also be smiling. I've got a dirty, happy kid and I'm proud of it!


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## Cheshire (Dec 14, 2004)

I'm a huge fan of the mud pie. Charlie loves to play in the mud.

My mom watches him during the day and they have a large muddy spot in their yard that is his favorite place to kick around in. She gives him the hose (on low) and he waters all her plants, fills up his little pool, makes mud, etc. The only thing she does is keeps a pair of cheap sandals on his feet and when they get so caked up with mud that he can't walk she just wipes it off and then he gets to go at it again. (he used to go barefoot but wound up getting all sorts of cuts and scrapes on the bottoms of his feet so the sandals help with that issue)

As far as seeing dirty kids in a grocery store. I agree, you have no idea what their day has been like. Like the pp said, what if they were just on their way home from a play date and didn't clean them up just to go to the store? I try not to judge or question others ability as parents but the things that bother me most are the behaviors of parents/attitudes towards their kids rather than the cleanliness. (we've all seen parents screaming and threatening spankings, etc. at their kids in stores -- that's the kind of behavior that bothers me).

And, as far as parks go I'm cautious just because I know that they treat the grass with all sorts of chemicals. In my lawn I know what goes on it (and what doesn't).

I'm voting people are too uptight and stick their noses into other people's business more often than they should.


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *babydoll*
A stick is not a safe toy for a baby - they could poke themself in the eye!

I guess I'm in trouble, then, because she's explored all kinds of sticks-- today she had one maybe four feet long.







I sit right next to her, though, and guide her. Heck, I let her play with a teacup the other day, and she had the cat's ceramic dish this morning. I just sit right there with my hands involved in the exploration, and carefully lead her to explore the object safely. The splinters thing is a good point, though, but most of her sticks have had bark on them.

And as for the germs, I think that a baby's immune system is a whole lot heartier than some people think. And protecting kids too much from germs prevents them from developing their own natural resistance. Have you read Guns, Germs, and Steel ? Check it out.

The human race survived and prospered on this earth for a long time before we discovered antiseptics and antibiotics. I really do think that Lysol and other chemical cleansers is a whole lot more likely to harm my child than some innocent garden soil. It's not like she's unwashed, either; she gets a soapy bath every single night (believe me, she needs it) and I wash her face and hands at least 5 times a day, especially before she eats.

Anyway, thanks for the reassurance, mamas. It's nice to know I'm not the only one. I know I'm a little more laid-back than most mamas, and sometimes I need a reality check.


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## spsmom (Jun 19, 2004)

huge fan of mud puddles and rain puddles, splashing in the rain...

just repeat of what everyone else pretty much said.

i am a little put off by the poster who is annoyed by dirty kids at the store, my kid comes out of the store with a brown face quite a bit. i let him have a cookie from the bakery and it usually chocolate chip. since we dont keep treats like that at home, it is a huge treat to get to go to the store with mommy and get a cookie. so call me neglectful, but i see nothing wrong with it.


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## LovemyBoo (Oct 11, 2004)

I have to wonder how much fun an always clean child can possibly have. :LOL My kids get pretty dirty. I do limit what goes in dd's mouth and I wipe her hands once in awhile to clean them off, but the rest of her can get very dirty. I don't see what the big deal is, they don't go to bed that way.

And if the most neglectful thing a parent does is let their child be dirty in public, more power to them. I'm not going to NOT stop at the store on the way home from the park b/c of what some stranger thinks of my kids with their dirty faces and clothes. Puh-leeze.







And no, I wouldn't bring them really filthy, but a few dirt and grass stains that couldn't be brushed off won't kill anybody.


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## Leilalu (May 29, 2004)

Uptight. Children are by nature sensual. This is how they learn.


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## momto l&a (Jul 31, 2002)

I think its important for kids to play in dirt.

cant remember whats in the dirt right now thats good for us







anyway its good bacteria


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## Ammaarah (May 21, 2005)

Some of my best childhood memories are of sitting in a mud puddle in my undies with my best friend for hours. I feel sorry for my future daughter with our association-maintained chemlawn. I'll have to find her some quality dirtpiles to investigate.


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## BensMom (May 4, 2002)

I am sooo not a germophobe! This weekend, DS was at MILs house and was playing with some floaty letters in a large bowl of water in the grass outside. Well, some grass clippings and dirt got in there and he had a spoon and was playing "alphabet soup". I tried to stop him, but he would sip some of the "broth" from his soup. Oh well. Its only dirt, right? And I know MIL does not use chemicals or anything on her lawn. All of the ILs were looking at him, making comments about how gross it was. If DH had seen, he would have stopped him too. I honestly did not think it was worth a tantrum to get him to stop. We were building his immune system, right?

:LOL


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## johub (Feb 19, 2005)

Kids who get dirty have stronger immune systems and less asthma.
I welcome the germs and etc. . . in that dirt.
My kids have always been allowed and enocuraged to get good and dirty.
Kids are washable
There is nothing you can get from dirt that i am afraid of.
Joline


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## kewb (May 13, 2005)

I have told my kids that coming home dirty means they had a good time.
Everything is washable.


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## johub (Feb 19, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *babydoll*
ANother thing - every once in awhile I will be at the grocery store or shopping and I will see a dirty filthy kid/baby sitting in the shopping cart while the mother is shopping. THat is absolutely neglectful! I want to tap them on the shoulder and say - "ever heard of soap? -it is cheap!"

( that is a huge pet peeve of mine!)

My sister would bathe her kids before bringing them to the park and then not let them play in the sand in case they got dirty!! That is absolutely a pet peeve of mine.
SO what if I take my kids to the store AFTER taking them to the park. Or after lunch in which my toddler dumped his spaghetti on his head.
I dont know if you assume that children at the grocery store look at their best and if a child is dirty then he never gets a bath.
In my experience baths often come at the end of a day in which a child gets dirty, and not at frequent intervals throughout the day as they get dirty.
Joline


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## Dodo (Apr 10, 2002)

I think that people expect kids to be dirty, but babies to be clean. I know I do a double take when I see a muddy baby. Maybe the comments will lessen in the coming year.


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## babydoll (Apr 30, 2003)

Okay, I'm really not trying to cause trouble, but this really bothers me. You have no idea what might be going on when you see a mother and a dirty child. Sometimes I'll be out with my kids, and no matter how hard I try, they get dirty, spill something on their clothes etc. We can be making a five minute trip somewhere, and we'll leave with clean clothes, and arrive somewhere with a shirt stained, a mouth covered in chocolate milk, and there's no way I'm going to turn around and go back home because my kid has a dirty shirt on. My youngest will not wear shoes for more than 30 seconds at a time, and goes barefoot everywhere because of that, so yes, her feet look filthy most of the time. But it's better that than fighting the "Put on your sandals" battle every five minutes. And there are other times where we've been to the park for a few hours, and we stop at the grocery store on the way home for something we need for dinner. I'm not going to leave my kids in the car, and I don't always carry a change of clothes or wet wipes with me so that they can be more "presentable" in the grocery store. Sorry. They're kids, and getting dirty is what they do.

I don't mean ring around the mouth from chocolate milk or dropped food on their clothes ( I do change that as soon as I can), I mean the child that looks like they have just rolled around in mud for hours. There is no excuse on this earth for taking your child out that filthy. period!

Also have some consideration for the people that will use the cart next.


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## AmyAngel (Dec 3, 2004)

I think I'll probably be OK with the dirt. Kids are washable, you know! My mom has pictures of us completely filthy head-to-toe, and tells often about the times we were so dirty they hosed us off outside before letting us in the house. I grew up on a dairy farm and our favorite fun things were sliding down the side of a huge pile of red dirt, digging through the just-plowed fields looking for treasure (there were old houses on the area a century before), wading through the creek and playing in the hay. We helped in the garden and dairy barn a lot and played in the sandpile and gravel driveway every day. Some days we really were FILTHY, what with the cows and mud and all.

For a very little kid I'd watch what goes in her mouth, but otherwise go for it! Red clay mud makes great face paint! The dairy is gone now, and I was actually wondering the other day where she would go to run around outside and explore. I may deliberately make a mud puddle at my parents house just for that purpose.

I do remember once being too dirty for my mom to take us in the grocery store - but I think we'd been riding in the cubby in the back of the Volkswagen bug (no car seats then!) and had gotten grease on our clothes in my dad's workshop so it was a little worse than regular "kid dirt". I also think she was in a hurry that day, and really wanted us to stay in the car with our aunt!

When I see a really dirty kid at the grocery store, I just assume they've had a fun day and are picking up some items on the way home. It's the GROCERY STORE - who dresses up for that? I've seen people there in pajamas!

That said, my dad is a mechanic and still almost always has some sort of grease stain or dirt on his clothes, and has to take a shower before going anywhere - and it's impossible to work a dairy without getting some kind of messy so my whole family had the dirt thing going on!


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## morninglark (Mar 21, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Stacymom*
Besides, one of my great pleasures is having a really dirty kid, getting them in the bath at night, and seeing them get all clean and come out smelling so good!










I love that, too!

I also love that my DS explores the world--is out in the world. It builds him as a person, immunologically, physically, emotionally.

I used to be freaked about people with dirty babies until I had one ...


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Hmm--well, I've never actually seen a kid CAKED in mud in a grocery cart.

I may try to get the obvious crust off before we go out in public :LOL but that's about it. Unless a child is really, truly filthy and ragged and hasn't had a bath in days--I would never think thing one about seeing a dirty kid at the store. Seriously, I kind of hope you don't see mine.









There's a kid in my playgroup whose mom is obviously uncomfortable with her getting even a little dirty, and it makes me sad.


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

Children learn about their world by getting in it, and yes, getting dirty. Last week I was at waiting for my dd1 to finish a class at Parks and Rec, and there was a shallow puddle of water in the courtyard outside her class. My toddler was running around and so was this other toddler. That toddler went over to the puddle and stepped in it, and her mom said, "no no no no we do NOT want you to play in that puddle. Gross, yucky water! No no!". Well my dd went right over and started stomping in it, then squatted down and splashed in it with her little hands, looked up and smiled at me, splashed some more. I just washed her hands with a wipe when it was time to go. No biggie.

My IL's are also paranoid about dirty, and my dh is but tries to keep it to himself because he knows it's okay for them to play. But every time I turn around he's saying "Don't lie down on the floor, it's dirty" or some such comment. He catches himself and then says, Well it's not that dirty. He's really trying. My IL's make a huge deal out of it though.







:


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## Mackenzie (Sep 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *babydoll*
I have a just turned 3 year old and I have to tell myself that is is normal for her to play outside and get dirty and that is part of life and learning. I don't know how old your baby is, but I confess I would be staring too if I saw a baby covered in mud making mud patties - especially at a park. Consider the germs, bacteria, and parasites you don't see. How many cats have walked through there and used it without you seeing - just because you don't see poop doesn't mean they haven't been doing it. Ringworm, ecoli, histoplasmosis (disease from bird droppings) are to name a few. Not to mention things like bugs, stickers, etc. that could scratch or injure your baby. A stick is not a safe toy for a baby - they could poke themself in the eye! As they saying goes God made dirt and (a little) dirt don't hurt - but consider how dirty are you letting your child get? I have seen mom's doing this a few times at the park and it drives me nuts. I think it does border on neglectful parenting. As a parent it is our job to keep our children safe. I think you have to use comon sense.

ANother thing - every once in awhile I will be at the grocery store or shopping and I will see a dirty filthy kid/baby sitting in the shopping cart while the mother is shopping. THat is absolutely neglectful! I want to tap them on the shoulder and say - "ever heard of soap? -it is cheap!"

( that is a huge pet peeve of mine!)

Oh hecksters! I better break down and buy a protective bubble for my boys because that is the ONLY way that I am going to keep them out of these things. My five year old is a kid who LITERALLY leaves a ring in the bathtub at night. And that is an average day. My 21 month old is well on his way to the same lifestyle. IT IS OK! You are exposed to ALL sorts of filthy mcnasties evert single day but to be overly clean if often not good for a healty immune system. A few small illnesses, to us, is a whole lot better than a big huge one.


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## johub (Feb 19, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc*
There's a kid in my playgroup whose mom is obviously uncomfortable with her getting even a little dirty, and it makes me sad.

I was at a party with dh and the kids a few months back. WE were in a friend's backyard playing ring around the rosie with the kids (mine are 3 and 1 1/2 and 1 1/2 and 13) THis sweet little girl just watched and watched us and we asked her to join and she did once, but then she bowed out. She was too afraid she would get dirty. She was maybe four. She sat on the sidelines of life watching other kids have fun, unable to join because of fear that falling down on the grass will make her too dirty.
Another time when my ds1 was an infant I went to my dd's basketball game.
HE was crawling and we sat down on the pavement and he just crawled around. Another mom was there with a child the same age and she just stood there holding him for the entire time. She kept shifting around and looking terribly uncomfortable and irritable like she just didnt want to be thereand the baby kep fussing to get down. And I thought, if she just felt it was OK to put her baby on the ground both of them would be enjoying themseves much more.
So I suppose it is my experience that the fear of getting dirty seems to me to be an awful inhibition to full enjoyment of life and for me and my kids, I want none of it.
JOline


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## Artisan (Aug 24, 2002)

It's threads like this that make me love MDC. You would never see this conversation anywhere else. Of course kids are supposed to get dirty!


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## irinam (Oct 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *babydoll*
There is no excuse on this earth for taking your child out that filthy. period!

Why *should* there be an excuse? Who should she make her excuses to? I guess I don't really understand your logic. Is it because dirtied-up kids do not present a pleasant view that we see on the TV on on the cover of magazines?

I am all for a healthy helping of dirt. Johub's posts pretty much represent my point of view


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## Pandora114 (Apr 21, 2005)

I WISH my kid would get dirty!

Ever since she was mobile, I put her on the grass outside and she would FREAK. Didn't like the feel.

My dad led her out to the garden with a little shovel to see if she would help him...no dice..she pitched a fit

She gets sand on her she runs up to me and goes "mummy clean off?" wanting me to brush it off her...

She HATES dirt, even though I've given her ample opportunity and just sat back and let her do her own thing. Sticks..I make her put down though because she's a toddler and can put her eye out.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...4/HPIM0350.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...4/HPIM0335.jpg

How she PICKS the flowers:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...4/HPIM0343.jpg

She DOES however, Really like Crayon....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...4/HPIM0319.jpg

*sigh* I do give her lots of opportunity..I really do....*sigh*


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## Mallory (Jan 2, 2002)

My kids do go to the grocery store covered in mud. What usually happens is they've been out playing all day and are in the neighbors yard, I realize we have nothing for dinner so I grab shoes and shirts (since all they have on is shorts) and get in the car and pick them up next door, then I realize they have mud in their ears, or sand in thier hair, or sticky black popsicle drips all over or all of it and more, and we have no wipes ect. but we are hungry. So we go to the store messy. Or we ride bikes to the store and they ride through all the puddles and get that black stripe up thier backs from the splashes.

It doesn't make any since to bathe them to go five blocks when they are going to be right back in the mud in 20 minutes. While I do try to wipe of hands and faces, it doesn't always happen, and quite frankly a little mud is probably the least worry of any thing your kid might pick up from a grocery cart.


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## lilylove (Apr 10, 2003)

My Dd loves to get dirty, and she is good at it. I joke that she gets dirty just going from the tub to her bed :LOL
I agree, kids get dirty, thats what they do. Thats what they are supposed to do.

Ha. I just looked down and saw a spot of mud on my 9 month old's head.


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## irinam (Oct 27, 2004)

Oh Pandora - I LOVE that last picture of your DD :LOL


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## Pandora114 (Apr 21, 2005)

She wanted to wear lipstick!!! :LOL


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## mamabohl (May 21, 2005)

this thread just made me think of a cute story. A couple weeks ago my MIL was visiting...we took her to Colonial Williamsburg one day, but it poured on us. We were determined to not go home empty handed though so we dashed into a candy shop, and when we came out the rain had stopped breifly. So as ds and I were walking to the car I was pointing out puddles for us to jump in.







It was lots of fun, I've always loved puddles. So MIL says, "You're such a good mom."


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## Threefold (Nov 27, 2001)

:LOL

My ds goes to the grocery filthy. Yup, filthy. He loves







the sandpit at school and his teachers are absolutely fabulous about letting the kids dig, roll, bring in gallons of water, and just generally have a good time. I send him to school in old clothes b/c I know he is going to get filthy. We live across town and often have to stop by the grocery on the way home. I'm not going to add, "bring fresh clothes for ds" to my long list of things to organize and remember, so, yup, he's at the store filthy.

But, he never goes to bed like that. (Not mama's bed, at least







)


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## Peony (Nov 27, 2003)

DD is generally pretty dirty all the time. :LOL I can clean her up and 2 seconds later she found a puddle, dirt pile, or something messy. She goes to bed clean and has fun getting dirty the rest of the time.


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## Poetmama (May 30, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *johub*
I was at a party with dh and the kids a few months back. WE were in a friend's backyard playing ring around the rosie with the kids (mine are 3 and 1 1/2 and 1 1/2 and 13) THis sweet little girl just watched and watched us and we asked her to join and she did once, but then she bowed out. She was too afraid she would get dirty. She was maybe four. She sat on the sidelines of life watching other kids have fun, unable to join because of fear that falling down on the grass will make her too dirty.


Hmmm, I worry about the assumption you are making about this girl. DS hates to be dirty. He is very shy, and would not join a game that required him to fall down. He would just watch. He also hates to be wet. It is to the extreme that he MUST change clothes if they are either a bit wet or dirty. I attend the local State college, he attends preschool there two days a week. At the begining of the semester, I make sure his teachers know that he is to change clothes if he says he wants to. I keep two outfits in his cubby. He would be in tears if he was forced to wear something he thinks is dirty (I know, I've tried!) It's his comfort level, not mine, that I am concerned with. I would hate to think that someone thinks I made my son paranoid about dirt when I have encouraged him to explore his entire life!

Now, DD, she is constantly dirty. Sticky by the end of the day. The ring in the bathtub comes from her! Unfortunatly, I have to watch her like a hawk when it comes to playing in our dirt. We just bought this house, I have NO idea what is in the soil (There was an overgrown veggie patch, the previous owners were landscapers)! I worry that what she eats will make her sick.

So, I guess I don't worry about getting dirty as much as I worry about eating the said dirt!


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## wildmonkeys (Oct 4, 2004)

I let my kids get super dirty in the yard (I also get super dirty gardening and whatnot)

We don't go to the store often - my kids don't really enjoy it so I try to make one shopping trip last for a week or two - I always clean them up before we go. I haven't ever really thought about it since I also clean myself up before we go, ykwim?

I have to say that I am pretty anal about what they actually put in their mouths though - I have to be because ds#2 would literally eat rocks & trash!

BJ
Barney & Ben


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## johub (Feb 19, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Poetmama*
Hmmm, I worry about the assumption you are making about this girl. DS hates to be dirty. He is very shy, and would not join a game that required him to fall down. He would just watch. He also hates to be wet. It is to the extreme that he MUST change clothes if they are either a bit wet or dirty. I attend the local State college, he attends preschool there two days a week. At the begining of the semester, I make sure his teachers know that he is to change clothes if he says he wants to. I keep two outfits in his cubby. He would be in tears if he was forced to wear something he thinks is dirty (I know, I've tried!) It's his comfort level, not mine, that I am concerned with. I would hate to think that someone thinks I made my son paranoid about dirt when I have encouraged him to explore his entire life!

My sadness for this child and the feeling that she is missing out on a lot of enjoyment remains whether this is her innate temperament or ingrained by her parents.


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *babydoll*
A stick is not a safe toy for a baby - they could poke themself in the eye!

I've never understood this reasoning. A baby could poke anything in their eye if they were so inclined. The only time I worried about my guy "poking himself in the eye" was when he was first learning to walk and was prone to tumbles.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *babydoll*
ANother thing - every once in awhile I will be at the grocery store or shopping and I will see a dirty filthy kid/baby sitting in the shopping cart while the mother is shopping. THat is absolutely neglectful! I want to tap them on the shoulder and say - "ever heard of soap? -it is cheap!"

What is neglectful about it? What is it that you think is going to happen to the child as a result of being dirty?

Sounds like you just have a bit of a germ phobia, honestly.







Which is fine, lots of people do, but please don't project it onto other people and make it their fault.


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## Pandora114 (Apr 21, 2005)

Well my DD IS pretty accident prone. She's 2, been walking for a year now, and I know she stumbles all the time still. Trips over her feet :LOL She's pretty coltish. So no, I won't allow her a stick for that reason.


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## UmmBnB (Mar 28, 2005)

My kids get filthy. I just clean 'em up before we go out!









I do have a thing for keeping them halfway clean when we aren't at home. I don't want to tote a muddy, slimey kid home and end up having to clean the car seats, van, etc.


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## *bejeweled* (Jul 16, 2003)

Poetmama, I totally understand your post. My DD is the same way. It is her temperament---no matter how much we encourage her to get dirty, she just does not want to. That is her choice and we honor it.

And Johub, everyone's idea of enjoyment is not the same as YOURS. Imagine that.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *johub*
My sadness for this child and the feeling that she is missing out on a lot of enjoyment remains whether this is her innate temperament or ingrained by her parents.


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## johub (Feb 19, 2005)

It doesnt really matter what my idea of enjoyment is.
If I see a child who wants something but is held back from that desire by something so unimportant as a little dirt, even if it is something I would never do. That is sad.
It would not be sad if she was simply not interested in playing. If she was joyfully and delightfully otherwise occupied.
It IS sad when a child wants to play and wont or cant because of a few flecks of grass.

My daughter once had a birthday party. She was 9. A little girl wouldnt go into the grass to do the pinata because she was wearing sandals and the grass would make her feet itch. I told her I would be happy to get her a nice pair of socks to wear under her sandals so the grass wouldnt bother her.
Her answer was "I'm not allowed to wear socks with sandals" and so she did not hit the pinata.

I respect that some children will not want to play ring around the rosie or hit a pinata. However it is shameful that some children who would want to are held back by such things as a little grass on their dress or feet or the inappropriateness of wearing socks with sandals.
Joline


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## *bejeweled* (Jul 16, 2003)

Johub,
It does matter what your idea of enjoyment is, because that is what you are using to judge the girl's unwillingness to continue playing. Maybe she just didn't like the game. She tried once right? You say it was because she didn't want to get dirty. Did she say that? Or did you assume it?


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## bri276 (Mar 24, 2005)

if a child is truly filthy as in neglected filthy- you won't have to guess, you will smell it. it won't be some dirt on the shirt or orange cheeto stuff on the face- it'll be urine, BO, and must. unfortunately, I know that much.

dirt. sticks, rocks, grass, leaves, and water are natures free toys. (and bugs sometimes!) we played for hours outside in the woods, in the sprinkler, digging in the dirt. it's perfectly safe and healthy (of course, if you were in a seedy neighborhood parking lot with cigarette butts on the ground I'd say no). But in the park? who cares!! if the kid is happy and safe leave em alone.


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## johub (Feb 19, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **bejeweled**
Johub,
It does matter what your idea of enjoyment is, because that is what you are using to judge the girl's unwillingness to continue playing. Maybe she just didn't like the game. She tried once right? You say it was because she didn't want to get dirty. Did she say that? Or did you assume it?

She actually said that she didnt want to get dirty. WHich is the only reason I would have included it in this thread. It has nothign to do with me or my sense of enjoyment.


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## Attila the Honey (Mar 15, 2003)

My dd is dirty all the time, she starts out clean and gets messier and messier throughout the day. If she's outside playing and gets grungy and I realize I need to go grab something at the store chances are slim that I am going to bother to bathe her. Give me a break! I dare someone to make that comment about soap to me. Besides, if the next parents who use that cart are the type that care about stuff like that they will probably have one of those super pimped out shopping cart covers. :LOL

When dd was 10 months old she was outside gnawing on a stick. My SIL, who is a total neatfreak, came over and said, "She has a stick in her mouth...". My dh said, "Oh yeah, I know. She's teething." and just continued to let her gnaw. She was obviously shocked and disapproving. (But then, she's the one that wiped her dd's face after every bite of cake on her 1st bday. She couldn't even stand to do the traditional "let the baby smash cake all over herself" first bday ritual.)

My MIL watched my dd for the first time yesterday and when i got home dd was clean, her hair was put in place with a barrette, and she had a new outfit on. I told MIL that was totally unnecessary because I *like* seeing dd messy. I like seeing what she did that day all over her clothes and face. I jokingly told MIL that the only kids who are clean at the end of the day are the ones that did nothing but sat in front of the TV. (Ok, ok, I know that's not true and no offense intended to those of you with neat kids.







)


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## Pigpen (Dec 12, 2002)

http://photobucket.com/albums/v736/i...t=P8240002.jpg
that tells you how I feel about it :LOL
We have a hose hooked up to our wash basin so I can hose them off with warm water before they come in for a bath.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Dirty is a wonderful thing to be. That's why we have a bath at the end of the day, hmm?


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

frankly i have been fortunate to always get the 'good mom' comment mostly from old men. never had anyone frown on my dirty child yet - even when at 16 months she was stomping in a greasy dirty knee deep puddle at 1 am on an icy cold morning. home was 5 mins away and the coffee shop inmates coming out from the band we had gone to see all gathered around smiling and laughing at my dd's obvious enjoyment of the moment. u could feel the 'laughter' in the air.


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## calicokatt (Mar 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pigpen*
http://photobucket.com/albums/v736/i...t=P8240002.jpg
that tells you how I feel about it :LOL
We have a hose hooked up to our wash basin so I can hose them off with warm water before they come in for a bath.

I want to know what laundry soap you use???


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## PadmaMorgana (Apr 14, 2004)

My kids love to get dirty. Right now we are doing major renovations to the backyard. Mix dirt, water and shovels and you get kids who need a hose off in the sink before the bath. Their scalps are black with dirt (as they fill their hats, then put them on) Right now, the favourite activity is to dump dirt on the slide, add water, and slide through it. All their clothes are play clothes









I try to wipe most of the dirt off before going to the store, but when I quickly run out, sometimes they are dirty. Oh well









But hey..what do I know? I taught DS the proper way to splash in puddles (if you jump with your feet together you stay fairly dry, but the others get wet).


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## littleaugustbaby (Jun 27, 2003)

babydoll, I think you have some issues. Who cares if a kid's dirty, as long as they're happy? You'd freak if you ever saw my daughter. She loves to play in the dirt, draw on her clothes with crayons, and explore everything around her. She hates having her hair brushed and her face wiped off. I'm not about to change her clothes every time she gets something on them - I'd never keep up with the laundry if I did! And if I have to run errands, and she doesn't feel like having her hair brushed or having her face wiped off, then there's a good possibility that you'll see her out in public with me with a dirty shirt, messy hair, and avocado on her face.

FTR, I've heard of soap. We use it to wash DD's hands when she comes in from playing outside and before we eat. We also use it every night when DD takes a bath before bed.

Sorry, but I just hate it when people put so much importance on someone's outward appearance, especially when it comes to children. We get enough of that crap from the media. It's a pet peeve of mine.


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## trinity6232000 (Dec 2, 2001)

Kids who like to get dirty, and are not only allowed to get dirty, but
encouraged to, are having the best time. They are exploring their
world, and what could be better than that.
People gave me weird looks too when dd was a baby and she was
all grassy and dirty. I got used to it, which is good cause we still get
looks, and it's not just cause dd is dirty.
Last week she got into my makeup right before we were leaving the
house. Just blush and lipstick, but with a five year old hand, so you
can imagine the clown face she had. She ran out to me and said
"Mama don't I look pretty". Big smile across her face. I told her I
knew she was pretty all the time. But she was so proud of herself.
I didn't have her clean up, she spent the day like that. Many people
thought it was cute and asked if she had played dress up today. But
many looked at me like I was the one who applied makeup on my
5yo daughter. <rolls eyes>


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## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *johub*
My sadness for this child and the feeling that she is missing out on a lot of enjoyment remains whether this is her innate temperament or ingrained by her parents.

Some kids (and people) get a lot more out of watching and observing than doing. You may be someone who enjoys doing and you might very well be missing out if you weren't involved in the activity. The little girl may be someone who doesn't enjoy doing as much as she enjoys watching. I was such a child myself (I'd much rather sit and watch others play than play with them, and this preference had nothing to do with fear of dirt). In fact, I think my joy of reading comes from this same trait - watching and observing others' emotions and actions is basically what you do when you read a novel.


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## johub (Feb 19, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamawanabe*
Some kids (and people) get a lot more out of watching and observing than doing. You may be someone who enjoys doing and you might very well be missing out if you weren't involved in the activity. The little girl may be someone who doesn't enjoy doing as much as she enjoys watching. I was such a child myself (I'd much rather sit and watch others play than play with them, and this preference had nothing to do with fear of dirt). In fact, I think my joy of reading comes from this same trait - watching and observing others' emotions and actions is basically what you do when you read a novel.

Sure I get that. But I also think you can kinda tell when that is the case and the child who is just longing to join but doesnt.
Whether or not the child looks like they are having a good time is far more important than what they are doign to have that good time.
I also know that some children do not bubble out joy whenever they are experiencing it, and so they may look serious or sad but actually feel happy.
But If someone looks sad, I dont think it is jumping to conclusions to feel bad that they seen sad.
joline


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## BabyBumblebee (Mar 16, 2005)

well, I love my dirty, sticky, blueberry-stained, dog hair eating baby! I love that she doesn't have any inhibitions about exploring her environment with *all* of her senses, and that she is able to be comfortable and play. She gets a bath every night, and her hands and face wiped as and when necessary, but I do not feel the need to 'sanitise' her or her environment! And yes, that does mean that we leave the house *in the daytime* and go to the store and she's grubby







: She's a child, for pete's sake, not a biohazard!

I grew up in a household literally *obsessed* with dirt and contamination, and all I got out of that was an anxiety disorder - I truly believe my daughter deserves better than that


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## Pandora114 (Apr 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BabyBumblebee*
She's a child, for pete's sake, not a biohazard!



:LOL Well I dunno, If she's on any kind of solids yet.... :LOL

There are some days I wonder if my DD is a biohazard on diaper odour alone!


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pandora114*
:LOL Well I dunno, If she's on any kind of solids yet.... :LOL

There are some days I wonder if my DD is a biohazard on diaper odour alone!









:







:







:







:







:







:







:
Yeah, DD ate corn and beans last night. You can imagine the result. I changed three poopy diapers between waking up and naptime this morning, and







what a mess!!!


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## kamilla626 (Mar 18, 2004)

A few days ago dd was complaining that she had a little piece of blueberry skin stuck in her teeth. I asked "How do you think we should get it out? Maybe your toothbrush?" She said, "No, me have a good idea!!" and took off for the bedroom. I followed her a few seconds later and saw her sitting on our bed, gnawing on the sole of dh's shoe! :LOL

We are SOOO not germ phobic. Children who are exposed to the common germs of the human body, household and domestic animals are often healthier in the long run.

Speaking from experience, and about the adults I know, there seems to be a high correlation between germ-phobic, overprotective parenting and anxiety disorders. Not sure if one causes the other... just an observation that makes me wonder...


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## eorr (Jun 3, 2005)

Great pics!! I hope I can be dirty with my dc once I get 'em.
I am reminded of an encounter with my then 1 1/2 yo nephew. His first time at the beach, and we couldn't keep the sand filled shovel out of his mouth!! I have no idea how much sand he ate that day. The look on his face was quite contemplative as he moved it around in his mouth. . .







: It was an absolute riot, and my favorite memory from that visit.


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## Shann (Dec 19, 2003)

My boys LIVED dirty in the summer, and in fact still do (they are 10 and 8 now). To be honest, I wanted them to get out and get dirty, cause to me that showed they were enjoying the outdoors. Plus, I just think dirty little kids are CUTE ! LOL ! And when we needed to go to the grocery store, post office, park, dept. store, etc., etc., they never got cleaned up beforehand. I would take them in all their barefoot, shirtless, grimy, sweaty, dirt and popsickle stickiness-stained glory ! And I have to admit, if they fell asleep at night before they got a bath, I just carted them off to their beds and let them get up the next morning still messy and ready for round two, and if there was yet another trip to the store on the agenda, they would go with me again on day two. Don't worry...they always got a bath eventually. I just never had a set schedule for it. They still enjoy playing and getting dirty...but now I let them decide when they are going to get clean. They usually do so on a daily basis, but not always. I just have never worried about my kids getting dirty, and I never will.


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

.


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## Neldavi (Jun 28, 2005)

Yeah, people are just uptight.

I remember when ds first started crawling my instinct was to protect him from anything dirty ... my precious perfect baby! :LOL ... but once I thought about it and obviously saw that what he needed was to explore everything .. what's a little dirt?

Or a LOT of caked on mud? Or a mouthful of grass, or... you get the point.

Where's the fun in never getting dirty? What would be the point of baths, then?

And sticks, I really feel like moms know best what is dangerous or inappropriate for their kids, and if mom thinks they're okay with a stick, noone else is a better judge of what's gonna "put an eye out"


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## chinacat (May 14, 2003)

lol.. my boys are the kings of messy!!lol they are 4 and 1 and i don't think they have been clean all summer. My oldest constantly has mud on his face..even if there is no mud around?!? lol And his little brother is the same. He will not wear shoes so his feet are always dirty.
The other day we had a huge rain storm here, when it was done the boys and i went for a walk downtown. Obviously my boys find the biggest badest puddle the the sidewalk and start running threw it. Laughing and giggling, jsut getting utterly soaking wet and muddy!! My youngest went face first in it just as 2 eldery ladies were walking by. They stopped and watched the kids and laughed along with them. Then they said to me "it's so nice to see kids getting to be kids."
And when they were done we i rung out there pant legs and shirts a little and we walked over to the grocery store.


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## Ellien C (Aug 19, 2004)

M 2 yo knows to take her clothes OFF before she sits in the mud puddles - much to my neighbors chagrin, I think. They all have toddlers and are a little more - hovering, shall we say.

I don't worry about sticks or rocks or anything. I don't see monkey mommas taking sticks out of baby monkey hands and they seem to be OK. I think that's what the eye reflex is for. Your eyes normally close when something gets near them.

We are also a "low soap" family. I won't say NO soap. But it's not a staple in the bath. And baths for DD happen once or twice a week. The rest of the time we just shake her out.

As for the grocery store - well you won't see me there with DD.

That's DH's job - and DD will probably be climibing up the cart perching precariously somewhere and someone else will be glaring at DH.


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## Lady Madonna (Jul 2, 2004)

Hee, like Pandora114, I *wish* my DD would get dirtier! A kid who smells of dirt and sunshine and good, clean sweat is a wonderful thing! She prefers to get wet, which I suppose is messy play, but I like the dirt!

When we were kids, my mom would bathe us in the basement utility sink if we were terribly filthy (which happened a lot) - it was easier to do that than bathe us and then scrub the bathtub! At a minimum, we'd be told to scrub the bottoms of our feet before we came in the house, because we went barefoot a LOT and played on grass, dirt, concrete, blacktop, you name it.


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## PikkuMyy (Mar 26, 2004)

I can't wait to have a dirty child! Of course, if my child turns out to be germ-phobic, I'll deal with that as well.

I think that many of you are jumping down johub's throat, and I'm not sure why. I have seen what she has described several times and I am always sad that a child is left out of something he/she wants to do, or even if the child doesn't want to do the activity, if he/she is left out of wanted social interactions because all the other children are doing it, that makes me sad, too.

I teach and several children in my class have had times when they've been really upset about their clothing because they were playing in the mud pit at school (yes, we have one in the garden!) and splashed a tiny bit on their clothing and were crying because they had promised their parents that they wouldn't get their clothing dirty at all. For shame! And this is a Waldorf school where parents know we have a garden and play in nature all day long...


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

<---Another vote for people are uptight.
<---And another mom with grubby kids.


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## momatheart23 (May 25, 2002)

Another mama who encourages her children to get dirty. And gets some crazy looks for it, but who cares?
I am a firm believer that children need to be exposed to bugs so that their immune system learns to fight them off. I think the obsessions with germ phobia, antibacterial soap, disinfect everything is only making sicker and sicker people. Besides one of the most harmful things to the body is stress. When my boys were newborns, people would say they couldn't visit because they had a cold. I asked them if they had anything deadly and they said no, so I said come on over. We had animals, dirt and I never had a rule about washing hands before holding them, and I have some amazingly healthy kids. My oldest has never been to the doctor besides a well baby checkup, and not even those is 3 years and he is turning 4 monday. When they do get sick it is so mild because their body just fights it off so well. I have moms all the time asking me if I am going to stop my kids from putting this or that in their mouth and I say no.

In fact now that we live in an apartment I know they are missing having a backyard to get muddy and wet in, I may take them camping this weekend though and then they can get their fill of it. An old playgroup I went to we went to the pumpkin patch and one of the moms yelled at her daughter for jumping in a puddle, we are at the pumpkin patch for Christ's sake, let her be. It made me so sad.


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## babydoll (Apr 30, 2003)

I am sure I will get hundreds of flaming e-mails from this post but I don't care. I am so glad that I have instilled a sense of self confidence in my child that she likes to have good hygiene and when she plays outside and gets dirty that she WANTS to come inside and get clean. She does help me garden and play outside and take yard sticks (carefully - without knawing on them) to the stick pile in the yard. She does have a swingset and covered sand and water table that she plays in. We do have a good time, but we know what is acceptable and what is not.

Shame on you Mamas that can't be bothered to bring an extra outfit or wash your children's face and hands. Good hygiene is not just about looking good -there are health reasons for washing your hands after playing in the dirt!

Some of the stories on here make me want to puke. I would not let my child play with a child that is covered in dirt. I would be afraid the kid had lice and would not want her to play with that child. Sorry people but your outward appearance does affect how people treat you and your kids might as well learn that in life people are going to respect and want to be around the clean kid not the dirty filthy kid with 2 or 3 or 4







days of dirt on them.

Flame away. Kick me off. I don't care. I have said my peace! :yawning:


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## PadmaMorgana (Apr 14, 2004)

*Bah...never mind*


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## Pigpen (Dec 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PadmaMorgana*
*Bah...never mind*

Taking PadmaMorgana's muddy high road...love the scenery!


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## talk de jour (Apr 21, 2005)

Perfectly fine.

Builds character. :LOL


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pigpen*
Taking PadmaMorgana's muddy high road...love the scenery!









:


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## Ellien C (Aug 19, 2004)

_We do have a good time, but we know what is acceptable and what is not_.

As do we









_Some of the stories on here make me want to puke. I would not let my child play with a child that is covered in dirt. I would be afraid the kid had lice and would not want her to play with that child._

I need to let you know that lice is a communicable disease and has NOTHING to do with cleanliness. The cleanest people in the world can get lice. And it's really common, though traumatic in childhood. So if/when you kids come home with lice, please know that's it's really common and unrelated to hygiene.

And to everyone else - don't worry. We'll still play with you in the park and I'll make nice if I should ever see you in the grocery store.


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## bobandjess99 (Aug 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pigpen*
Taking PadmaMorgana's muddy high road...love the scenery!


Whew! I'm getting tired over here...Legs are starting to hurt from walking up this high road.....but at least the company's good!


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## PadmaMorgana (Apr 14, 2004)

My grandmomma taught me how to cook with flour in our hair, how to play with dirt on our clothes and how to love with snot rubbing on your shoulder.

She also taught me, "if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing"


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## Shann (Dec 19, 2003)

I will openly admit that my kids have, on several occasions in their lives, been those kids with "2 or 3 or 4 days of dirt on them," as babydoll mentions. And you know what? I'm not ashamed of it ! And know something else? My kids are great kids and have never wanted for friends and playmates, even on their dirtiest days ! From what I have seen, the clean and neat kids have always been in the minority...there are FAR more dirty kids that I have seen over the years than clean ones...and to that I say ...CHEERS to the mammas who don't get uptight about it!


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## Ellien C (Aug 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PadmaMorgana*









My grandmomma taught me how to cook with flour in our hair, how to play with dirt on our clothes and how to love with snot rubbing on your shoulder.

That's really beautiful. I was thinking one day as my 2 yo lay in my arms, all sweaty with a booger dried on her face HOW much I loved her. With all of her dirt and boogers. I mean I wouldn't sleep with my DH all sweaty and booger-esque - but no problem with DD.

sorry TMI just totally ruined your beautiful sentiments.
Was it something you g-ma said, or something you just made up now about her? I'd love for someone to think that about me someday.


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## PadmaMorgana (Apr 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ellien C*
That's really beautiful. I was thinking one day as my 2 yo lay in my arms, all sweaty with a booger dried on her face HOW much I loved her. With all of her dirt and boogers. I mean I wouldn't sleep with my DH all sweaty and booger-esque - but no problem with DD.

sorry TMI just totally ruined your beautiful sentiments.
Was it something you g-ma said, or something you just made up now about her? I'd love for someone to think that about me someday.

My grandma died when i was 9. We had tea parties and baked. needless to say, when i stirred, flour went everywhere. She never made me feel bad about it. She taught me to flour a board (like a kneading board) with a heavy hand. We used to dig in the garden for vegetables. When I cried (at 9, I was convinced she was the only one who loved me) she would hold me as the snot flowed. DH is the only other one upon whose shoulder I wiped my nose.

It is not what she said to me (the last thing she said to my face was in response to me saying "someday grandma I will be taller than you". She told me "I hope you are everything you dream") It is how I remember her









The "if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing" she liked to tell me. And she lived by it.

love never has TMI







You didn't ruin anything...my grandma was a loving soul. Her funeral was packed, with people standing on the lawn of the church. If my kids remember the mess, the snot and the love, *I* have done my job.

Dirt washes...memories are forever.


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## Threefold (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *babydoll*

I have said my peace! :yawning:

yet somehow not very peacefully.


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## water (May 15, 2003)

I love my filthy kids, both of them are sleeping right now in our family bed, dirt and all, after crashing out in the car driving home from a BBQ where the baby ate dirt, grass, black beans and zucchini









They also both play with sticks all the time, not sure why kids aren't allowed to play with sticks? The baby eats them and the 4yo, well, uses them for a million things, we have quite a stick collection and they are all, apparently, sacred :LOL

I think it's silly and a waste of time to worry about a little dirt, there are so many better things in life to waste your energy on, so I agree with the OP: UPTIGHT!!!


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

Are some people just completely unaware that we humans used to live a completely un"civilized" existence as nomadic tribes with *gasp* no soap OR running water?


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## water (May 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KristiMetz*
Are some people just completely unaware that we humans used to live a completely un"civilized" existence as nomadic tribes with *gasp* no soap OR running water?

I know, isn't it SHOCKING!!!! How did the species EVER SURVIVE without pump-top antibacterial soap?


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *babydoll*
I would not let my child play with a child that is covered in dirt. I would be afraid the kid had lice and would not want her to play with that child.

Just be aware that lice do not care if a kid is clean or not. The most sparkling, squeaky clean kid in your child's class will have lice at some point, and so will yours. I can just about guarantee it.

I dont play in mud these days, and I shower daily, but I've had headlice more times than I can remember. Caught from numerous clean kids.


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

.


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## Pigpen (Dec 12, 2002)

Padma, your Grandma was wonderful!
I was just thinking about this thread again, and remembered one of the few things I remember from my childhood. I was about 5 years old and my dad dug up a big shrub in our backyard. Where the shrub used to be was now a big hole. He filled it with water and we played in that ALL DAY! Our clothes were completely mud-soaked but we had a blast! I still remember it 30 years later.


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *babydoll*
Well it may be true that headlice is a communicable disease. Thankfully I have never had it! However, the child that is bathed daily is FAR more likely to nip it in the bud immediately than those whose NEGLECTFUL parent waits 4 days to give him or her a bath!

When I was in second grade the girl next to me ALWAYS had headlice. We had to sit in alphabetical order. Every time the nurse came thorugh with her nit comb and spray alcohol this girl had it, yet I sat next to her for years and I never got it. Maybe luck combined with daily bathing.









Daily bathing does NOTHING to prevent lice; it's a COMMUNICABLE disease. You get lice by being near other people who have it. Daily baths don't prevent it in ANY WAY.


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## leomom (Aug 6, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llyra*
I guess I'm in trouble, then, because she's explored all kinds of sticks-- today she had one maybe four feet long.







I sit right next to her, though, and guide her. Heck, I let her play with a teacup the other day, and she had the cat's ceramic dish this morning. I just sit right there with my hands involved in the exploration, and carefully lead her to explore the object safely.

I think that's great!







You're teaching her how to handle and respect fragile things.







I need to start doing that with my dd.


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## LovemyBoo (Oct 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KristiMetz*
Daily bathing does NOTHING to prevent lice; it's a COMMUNICABLE disease. You get lice by being near other people who have it. Daily baths don't prevent it in ANY WAY.











I used to work in a group home for teen girls, went through more lice episodes than I care to think about. Scabies, too. All the regular shampoo and soap in the world ain't gonna deter the little buggers. All of our girls and a good chunk of the staff got headlice regardless of their personal hygiene status. In fact the girl who had the most trouble with recurring lice had problems not because of her hygiene, but due to her really long thick, dark hair that took us HOURS to find the nits to comb out. She wouldn't cut her hair and it took weeks of recurring lice episodes until she finally changed her mind and let us cut it.

FTR I never got lice or scabies from any of the kids. Thankfully. But some of our staff who were far more fastidious and anal than me got them. It's proximity darling. Not personal hygiene. Living in filthy conditions and rarely bathing your child is one thing. Save your rants for those parents, babydoll. I think the parents here that you are scolding clean up child and home well enough at the end of the day. I hate to tell you but a spotless child is not a sign of a loved and thriving child and a dirty child is not a sign of a neglected, abused child. You just can't tell by looking, esp. a passing glance through judgemental eyes in the supermarket.


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## la mamita (Apr 10, 2005)

<-------- Mama to a kid who will be crawling in the dirt (as soon as he learns to crawl! :LOL)
<--------- another vote for fear of dirt, messy play, etc=uptight

My only qualm about the dirtiness issue would be I would be worried that the dirt had been chemically treated in some way. (like Trugreen Chemlawn type deal--GROSS) So I'd probably only allow dirt in/near the mouth if I was sure that the dirt wasn't all chemical-y.

Apart from that, break out the mud puddles and let's get to jumping! (oh I am going to have so much fun making messes with my son







)


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

.


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Another vote here for letting babies get dirty! Within reason of course, will always make sure the area doesn't have real contamination.
Last sunday our family outing was to a pig sanctuary!!! It was great fun, they had 450 pigs. I am going to volunteer there, and someday I hope I can bring ds to play and "help" while I do. I am glad I am not uptight about dirt so he can experience that.
Think of all the kids that grew up on farms, how dirty they must have been.

Babydoll, be careful how you judge. A few weeks ago we had a power outage in the middle of the day and my cooling system turned off. It was 107 outside so I scooped ds off the floor and headed to the mall for some air-conditioning. When we got there I realized his white onesie was brown and covered in doghair from crawling around (I clean my floors all the time but we live in the desert and I have a really hairy dog). He had one of those dirt necklaces, and he had a little bit of yogurt near his ear. I chuckled to think of what we looked like. You would have labeled me neglectful, when actually I am a wonderful Mama


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Wow.
I had only read the first two pages of this thread before I posted, and then went back to read the last few.
Just wow.
Can I hang with you Mamas on the high road even though ds hasn't had a bath since thursday?


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

forget it....


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## babydoll (Apr 30, 2003)

when a child is exposed to lice there is the opportunity to kill it, remove it, etc. before it gets completely out of hand. THis happens when the exposure is noticed immediately -i.e. when the child is being bathed etc. When a child is NOT bathed regularly the lice will thrive and grow. Your dirty minded hygiene will be cold comfort to you when you are trying to de-lice your child and your home. Good luck with that.

I sincerly hope that this is really just a contest to see who can pretend to be the crudest about their child's hygiene and that you all do actually bathe your children regularly.

I also hope that you can comfort your children well when they come home crying because they have been labeled the "dirty kid" in school. I am talking about FUNK here, not a little spilled juice down the shirt.

GOOD LUCK TO ALL!


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## leomom (Aug 6, 2004)

Okay..I'm following my own advice in my siggy.


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## Attila the Honey (Mar 15, 2003)

Yikes, I don't know what kind of buttons this is pushing for you, babydoll, but I hope that along with teaching your child how to be clean and neat you are also able to teach him/her that treating people like dirt is liable to make someone friendless alot quicker than skipping a bath will. This whole thread is a perfect example of how to become unpopular in a real hurry, isn't it?

I don't know what else to say, just yikes.


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## babydoll (Apr 30, 2003)

I am not here to make friends. I have plenty of real life in the flesh reach out and touch friends. I am here to speak my mind, ask questions, and find answers. I have learned a few things on this forum as well as taught a few things on this forum. I will never think it is ok to let my child or your child go 4 days without a bath. Sorry it is never gonna happen. If you have questions about your child's hygiene and think I am incorrect about this take it up with your child's physician. I suspect they will agree that a child needs a bath and an infant doesn't need to play with sticks.
Since I know it happens, yet I can't imagine why people are so truly ignorant, I am unsubscribing to this thread. If you want to me stinky go ahead - but I don't want to smell you.


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## johub (Feb 19, 2005)

I have a theory that lice, like mosquitoes, choose their hosts based on somethign entirely different than hygiene.
I have never had lice, even my daughter who has attended many sleepovers which were followed by a call "my daughter was at the sleepover and we found out the next day she has lice" has never had it. She has shared a bed with friends who learned they had lice the very next day. It went round and round her school and girl scout troop. And we never have had it.

And that all on 2 baths/showers a week usually! (ok well I go every other day, I was talking about her)

Joline


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

.


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## malibusunny (Jul 29, 2003)

i let my child get dirty, and even our middle of the road, mainstream pediatrican thinks daily soap is bad for kids.

Sun (who has been known to lick her young)


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## Pandora114 (Apr 21, 2005)

Last time I checked. lice prefered CLEAN hair to dirty oily hair

It's easyer to grab onto the clean hair.

Easyer to lay eggs on the clean hair

With unwashed hair, natural oils build up creating an inhospitable environment for the critters. basicly scalp oils make the hair shaft too slippery for the lice to grab hold.

Sooo..don't be surpised if your immaculately groomed child comes home one day from school scratching her fool head off.

To be honest, Only time a human NEEDS a bath is when dirt/funk/sweat is pretty bad. with kids, it's usually when the skin looks tanned when you know it's the dead of winter. I was bathed once a week on Sundays when I was in elementary school *Before puberty* and I NEVER got lice despite the dozens upon dozens of lice advisories my school sent out every year.

Get educated...and watch a few episodes of Mythbusters will ya?


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## BabyBumblebee (Mar 16, 2005)

Wow! I go away to play in the sandbox for a couple of days, and look what happened! OMG









FWIW, if I used soap on dd every day, as has been suggested, her skin would be a *mess* - she (and I ) have chronic exzema. My ped. is perfectly comfortable with our cleansing routine, thank you.

Oh, and being an attached mama I *do* tend to spend a lot of time with my baby - and know her skin and hair pretty much inch by inch - I feel very confident that if (or when!) we ever have to deal with lice I will know about it. It will also not be the end of the world, or any kind of judgement on my dd, or me as a parent.







:

Off to kiss my beautiful, and slightly sticky dd - peach juice makes for a great facial, apparently :LOL


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## 3boobykins (Nov 21, 2001)

DD, 2.5, regularly comes in from the yard with dirt all around her mouth, in her hair, etc. DH calls the dirt around her mouth a "mudstache." :LOL

I know babydoll is no longer subscribed, but I would never send any of my kids to school dirty, and I know no one else here would either. DS just started kindergarten and while he may not shower/bath daily, he is always nice and clean when he goes to school.

Sometimes I just don't remember to bring a change of clothes to the park, and then we have to go to the store on the way home. I have 3 kids 5 and under. Going home and changing/bathing them and then going out to the store again would be a major ideal and would make us all miserable. If someone wants to think I'm neglectful, they can go right ahead and do so. I can't do anything about thier thinking--none of my business. I could bring them to the store totally clean and someone could judge me for nursing in public or not smacking my 2.5 yr old for screaming or tying to climb out of the cart.

My mom was great about dirt--she's let us get positivelly filthy. I remember having mud fights, "washing" our hair with mud, playing in the rain, etc. We have a picture of me around 10 months old playing in Central Park. It's a shot of me bending over, and all you can see is my muddy plastic pants diaper cover and a bit of chubby, dirty leg.

Yay for grubby, loved, happy kids!!


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## littleaugustbaby (Jun 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *babydoll*
Since I know it happens, yet I can't imagine why people are so truly ignorant, I am unsubscribing to this thread. If you want to me stinky go ahead - but I don't want to smell you.

Do you promise that you're really leaving this time?


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## Threefold (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *johub*
I have a theory that lice, like mosquitoes, choose their hosts based on somethign entirely different than hygiene.
I have never had lice, even my daughter who has attended many sleepovers which were followed by a call "my daughter was at the sleepover and we found out the next day she has lice" has never had it. She has shared a bed with friends who learned they had lice the very next day. It went round and round her school and girl scout troop. And we never have had it.

And that all on 2 baths/showers a week usually! (ok well I go every other day, I was talking about her)

Joline

I agree, my mom, my sister, and I have never had lice, despite lots of exposures, both as kids and adults.
I do get bitten by mosquitoes though.








As for the rest, I'll hold my tongue and count myself lucky to run into many of you at the grocery


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## PadmaMorgana (Apr 14, 2004)

*sigh*

You know if you have someone on ignore, you can still read their posts when people quote them? Very interesting.

You know, I would rather be ingorant than judgemental. Maybe my priorities lie in loving my children rather than bathing them 6 times a day making sure no one gets the wrong impression. Sheesh.


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## AutumnMama (Jan 2, 2004)

Just a note : My Doctor told me that it's actually *not* good to bathe a baby/young child every day (barring head-to-toe muck







). It dries their skin out; the natural oils are good for them.

I do bathe my kids before bed if they've been really dirty that day, even if it's just a sponge bath. But I'm not gonna freak out if they haven't bathed in the last 24 hours simply because it's been X ammount of time.

Clean is good, dirty is good; extremes either way are not (Meaning, scrubbing every second of the day and never allowed outside/ has only had one bath in the past 5 years and plays in trash every day :LOL ).

The only thing I'd want to be a little cautious about is ingesting dirt, etc. parasites are more common than we realize


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## dharmamama (Sep 19, 2004)

I have always let my kids get dirty.

I have always tried to keep them from ingesting things that are not food.

Especially outside stuff, which could have all sorts of icky-yuckies in/on it, including but not limited to lead (in the soil), parasites, animals droppings, etc. I'm all for not being fanatical about germs, but I am also all for trying to keep my kid from getting some sort of yucky illness.

If I saw a young child eating dirt, yeah, I'd think it was gross. And I'm not an uptight person.

Namaste!


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## jannan (Oct 30, 2002)

it is fine that children play in dirt! i hated when people would flip out when we'd be at the park and dd would be full of dirt. children are washable. and it is good for their sences. feel the dirt.smell the dirt.taste the dirt.

long live dirt!


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## 3boobykins (Nov 21, 2001)

Shortly after I posted yesterday, my two oldest got into the ash can out on the patio. (It's usually out of reach, but dh moved it for some reason). THe baby came outside while I was taking pictures of them and found a chunk of ash, which she thought was just delicious. Here are my little grubby urchins:

http://share.shutterfly.com/action/w...=8QcsWzNu4bMTm


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## bellyb (Oct 30, 2004)

my dd is always filthy by the end of the day. If sh wasn't I ould fel bad that w didn't do anything fun. Sh i almost always barefoot as long as the area is safe. I actually had a mom ask me one day how I keep her clothes so clean (she doesn't know us very well) and I was offended. DD was wearing a new pair of pants. I prid myself in my dd's grass stains. To me it means that she is having a great day!


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## Divina (Sep 13, 2003)

My teens don't get that dirty on a daily basis anymore, but they will if they want/need to. My 3 yo doesn't like to be sticky or wet, but doesn't mind dirt. He won't finger paint, but he'll dig. The littlest one is a dirt magnet! I have my own personal acceptance level of dirt to deal with, but I try not to let it interfere with their fun & learning. I mean, I prefer not to have a sticky, snotty face rubbed on me, but it sure doesn't have to be perfectly clean. And if the child with the aforementioned face is in distress in any way, my "issue" gets ignored--I can always change my shirt later.

And we don't bathe daily. We'll bathe the bits that need it--usually feet, face and hands--before bed. Personally, I get a good shower 2ce a week, and have had no complaints about smell, etc. I think it's bad for people to bathe too often, just as it's bad to bathe too little! (My youngest and I both have some eczema which is exacerbated by too frequent water/soap).


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

God made dirt don't don't hurt







Yes I let my toddler play and get dirty kids that are allowed to safely get dirty often have fewer allergies and are overall healthier. No ones saying let them play with rusty nails or in the sewer just good old fashioned gotta hose em off latter fun.. Umm if shes has a dirt full day we doa quick bath at the end of the day no biggie but if shes not really dirty them umm we bath her bout once or twice a week. Its really not healthy to bath daily and for my DD excema its really not wise. We wash hand before eatting and when going potty we so quick wash ups of hands and face and feet at the end of the day and we do dentle hygine. Not a biggie

Deanna


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## earthmama369 (Jul 29, 2005)

One of my favorite childhood memories is camping at Seldon's Island on the Connecticut River every summer. There was a small cove with a tiny beach that opened up onto a huge bend in the river. We'd hop in that water, dive down, and scoop up big ol' double handfuls of mud and river grass and give each other "spa treatments." That mud would be in our hair, between our toes, in our bathing suits. . . . And then we'd spend the next three days camping, with no bathrooms, showers, or antibacterial soap in sight. LOVED IT! We were filthy by the end of the trip, probably a little smelly, and just as happy as could be. Never got sick from it, never got *lol* lice from it, never got any fewer hugs from our parents from it. And that bath we got first thing when we got home felt sooooo much better than our usual weekly baths did. :LOL

Imagine my surprise when I asked our doctor about following old habits versus new research, and she said that what my mother did was absolutely correct -- bathing a baby once a week is best for her skin, with spot cleaning in between for the grubby bits. For a toddler, she recommended twice a week. More if she gets really grubby, less if her skin feels dry. Works for me!


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## johub (Feb 19, 2005)

*Warning*
Mud that dries on the skin can be really uncomfortable!!
I once encouraged my dd to get covered head to toe in a puddle at a park with thick mud. And she was.
But silly me, there was no hose at the park. By the time we got home the dried bits were like a mud facial all over her body! Poor thing was quite uncomfortable.
Now we dont do the full body mud thing unless we have a way to at least rinse a little.
Joline


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## earthmama369 (Jul 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *johub*
*Warning*
Mud that dries on the skin can be really uncomfortable!!
I once encouraged my dd to get covered head to toe in a puddle at a park with thick mud. And she was.
But silly me, there was no hose at the park. By the time we got home the dried bits were like a mud facial all over her body! Poor thing was quite uncomfortable.
Now we dont do the full body mud thing unless we have a way to at least rinse a little.
Joline

Yeah, I could see that. But we were in the river. WAAAAY more water than mud! (Just not the cleanest water!) :LOL


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## shishkeberry (Sep 24, 2004)

I guess I'm a neglectful mom with a dirty kid :LOL


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## lactavia (Aug 25, 2005)

As a teacher I see kids hang out inside WAY to much. I always have said that children need to be outdoors breaking themselves. They need to eat dirt, grass and bugs. They'll be fine. If they grow up outside then they'll most likely stay out there instead of glued to their TV sets.


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## avivaelona (Jun 24, 2005)

Dirt is one thing but I'd avoid mulch at the park. Commercial mulch or wood chips can contain all kinds of wood from yucky chemically sources or poisonous woods. Every year on my equestrian lists there is someone whose horse gets poisoned from them having used commercial sawdust or woodchips as bedding. Plus mulch is designed to hold moisture so it is more likely to be teeming with mold spores than plain old dirt.

I was always one of those clean kids; though I would get terribly messy, playing outside I never got dirty. I also didnt like a lot of rough games and might have told an adult that I was afraid of getting dirty while I looked longingly at the other kids wishing they'd play something else, but I don't think not wanting to get dirty ever really kept me from doing anything I wanted to do, just if I did get dirty I wanted to get clean again fairly quickly (I'm still like that actually, and I'm still miss messy). But still I know what Johub means..I had cousins whose mom would SCREAM at them when they came to visit if they ran around and got a little sweaty, if they ever got dirty she would have blown a major fuse the one time they got a little mud on their legs (and I mean just a few spatters), she made them take a bath at our house.

I was always messy but clean, one brother was as neat as a pin but would get dirty, and my other brother was pigpen..always a total disaster within minutes of having had a bath so it had nothing to with our parents, it was just how we were. Because of my dislike for dirt though I feel like I need to be careful not to influence my son too much..I think I wipe his face too often because I don't want to get the mud or dirt on me. However, since he is a big water baby, at the moment he thinks washing his hands or wiping his face is fun so no conflict yet. Hopefully there won't be an issue and he'll like getting dirty and getting clean again









As a preschool teacher I had kids who wouldn't participate in messy stuff because they didn't want to be dirty, I found that if there was a way for them to clean up periodically during the activity (not making them wait til after it was over) they would often choose to participate. For kids that are really phobic about dirt its often a self image problem and doing mirror excercises can help them be more confident about it but for most kids its just a sensory preference and doesn't mean they aren't having fun.

I was glad to read this thread by the way, I always feel weird because even a lot of the crunchy mom's around here use shopping cart covers and take toys away if they fell on the floor. We got a shopping cart cover as a baby gift and I ended up returning it because I didn't see the point of having to carry it every time we went out.


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

I'm always late to the best parties. I was trying to copy and paste, but it got to be too numerous so I just thought I'd post my own words instead!

I have always been a very neat person, even as a kid. Bathed every day, washed my hair everyday. And I got lice in 4th grade from sharing a hairbrush with another girl. Bathing and washing does nothing to prevent lice. The ignorance about these kinds of things is astounding.

I'm all for dirty kids, but interestingly, ds1 is just like me. He doesn't like to be dirty. If food drips on his hands, he wants me to wipe it off (he does it himself now). He'll play in the dirt or the mud, but somehow always ends up being the cleanest looking kid there. For his first birthday we gave him his own little vegan cake, hoping for the typical smear all over your face cake pics, and he barely got it on the corner of his mouth! When he was a baby, we only bathed him a couple of times a week. He was always clean and yummy smelling.

My neighbors kids can walk by dirt and somehow end up covered head to toe within 5 seconds. Her kids always look dirtier than mine, yet they have all been doing/eating the same thing! And, she actually bathes them much more often, sometimes 2x a day! But if they eat one popsicle they look like they haven't bathed in a week.

I do change my kid's clothes if they are really dirty because when I pick them up and carry them around it gets all over me, and I'm not big into sticky dirty on me. But kids rolling around in mud puddles? No problem at all.

Sidenote: For skin prone to eczema, like mine, the worst thing you can do is bathe every day. Add my ped to the list of docs who recommend against bathing babies every day.


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## craftykitty (Jan 31, 2005)

I love to see kids rolling in the mud having a grand time. I don't like my baby to eat dirt though. I don't want her to get some kind of parasite. I also wouldn't let her knaw on a stick because I would be afraid that a splinter might hurt her gums. Other than that, she has freedom to roam and get as filthy as she pleases. We live by the beach and my kids spend much of the time with sandy, gritty hair. I do wash her before we go anywhere that is indoors, though. It yucks me out to see babies in grocery stores, etc. that look like they haven't been bathed in a week.







Maybe they have been just playing in the yard - but maybe their mom could care less about taking care of them.


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## heldt123 (Aug 5, 2004)

I have one of those super clean kids too. When he was first learning to climb those playgroung platforms, he would stop an wipe off his hands after climbing each step. (I have actually had to teach him how to get dirty. Picture adult woman jumping in every puddle along the road and puposely smearing food on young child's face for a picture...







) Kids need dirt!


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## cyncyn (Nov 19, 2004)

People are too uptight. I let dd get as dirty as she wants at home. I am more careful at our parks because syringes sometimes show up and there is usually some poop on the grass too.

I do need to work on having play shoes for outside, because her regular shoes are getting trashed.

DD will spend hours making sand and mud pies in the backyard. I was the same way as a kid, playing with sticks, collecting rocks, making "soup", climbing trees, etc. Playing outside is so fun!

As far as dirty kids at the grocery store go, it doesn't really bother me unless there are obvious signs of neglect. What bugs me more is seeing a baby in just a disposable diaper in the grocery store.


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## johub (Feb 19, 2005)

especially a wet sagging one down to their knees.
I hate that too


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## kayjayjay (Jul 15, 2003)

I've become less uptight about dirt with each kid. My youngest does play in and sometimes eat dirt (I try to discourage the eating part!) and we don't even bathe every day. More like a couple of times a week. We don't generally go anywhere that it matters...and I don't care what the people at the grocery store think.

Nice to know we're not the only ones.


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

Wow, I'm cringing a bit... Didn't realize I'd start 8 pages of controversy. And I want to point out as the OP that I NEVER said anything about not bathing my child. I think I explicitly said that she never goes to bed dirty, but I have to back up the assertion that a daily bath with soap is not healthy for ANYONE's skin; I wash her when she's dirty, otherwise she just soaks in warm water. The only parts that I always wash are her hands, face, and diaper area.

But yeah, when she's been dirty outside I always wash her. I don't want all that muck in my bed, after all.

But anyway, WOW.


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## ebethmom (Jan 29, 2002)

oceanbaby
My neighbors kids can walk by dirt and somehow end up covered head to toe within 5 seconds. Her kids always look dirtier than mine said:


> Ds's best buddy is a pigpen kind of kid! He just attracts dirt. He and ds like to play in the tub together. They'll take a bath together, and ten minutes later he's just grubby. Somehow ds stays clean longer. But ds doesn't much care to get dirty.
> 
> We had a bog between our neighbors' yards last summer. Ds happened to slip and fall in the mud, and he had to come home right away to change pants. After that, he would go around the block to avoid the mud!
> 
> ...


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## Trinitty (Jul 15, 2004)

It's perfectly okay to let her play in the dirt, in fact, children build a better immune system that way.

Whip me up a mudpie!


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## Shann (Dec 19, 2003)

I have always had better things to do than worry about whether my kids were perfectly 100 % clean and bathed all the time. My boys (now ages 10 and 8) usually got one bath per week, sometimes two, during the summer (more often during the school year) and they did just fine...never any lice and never any lack of friends. Now we pretty much let them decide on their own "cleansing schedule," and we don't push the issue unless they get really bad. They are usually pretty good about it, but I admit they don't always bathe/shower daily...and we just don't worry about it.


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## RedWine (Sep 26, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cyncyn*
What bugs me more is seeing a baby in just a disposable diaper in the grocery store.

Umm..I've been that mama. My youngest (5 months) went through a one week phase of spitting up a LOT. I got tired of changing her shirt every ten minutes. Also, it was HOT here. So I just stopped putting clothes on her for a while. I thought she was very cute! Never would have crossed my mind that I might be annoying someone! I think all naked babies are adorable.


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## Attila the Honey (Mar 15, 2003)

I've been that mama too. In fact, my dd is almost 2 and we walked around the zoo a couple of weeks ago with her in nothing but a diaper!







I had 4 kids total, and dd spilled a sticky juice all down the front of her shirt AND shorts. She was drenched and sticky. For a long list of reasons that are too boring to go into, I didn't have a change of clothes for her. My choices were pack up all the kids and kiss the money I spent to get in away, let dd go around drenched and sticky and uncomfortable all day, or let her wear only a diaper. I chose the last one, and I got alot of "looks" that day. Oh well.


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## Little_Ladybug (Aug 10, 2005)

Another filthy kid here!


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## Kinipela79 (Apr 8, 2003)

My boys love to get dirty and it really doesn't bother me unless they are tracking it all over the house!







I don't really care if other people's kids are dirty either!


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## Sneezykids (Feb 24, 2003)

<<Dirt washes...memories are forever>>

Amen Sistah. Another mom of two happy dirty kids! The mud pie factory in the yard has been in full swing since the snow melted









My mom, AKA Donna Read (or Mrs Cleaver whichever you like) let us get dirty too, she nicknamed me "Grub" for the longest time! :LOL


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

I don't think i would want to offer up how often my young children (don't) bathe.

But i will tell you all that dirt is probably a reason none of my children have needed an antibiotic in 13 years. And two of my children have never had them. The other two have had them once each. One not until they were 12.

Dirt is gooooooood.


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## Mackenzie (Sep 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *babydoll*
Well it may be true that headlice is a communicable disease. Thankfully I have never had it! However, the child that is bathed daily is FAR more likely to nip it in the bud immediately than those whose NEGLECTFUL parent waits 4 days to give him or her a bath!

When I was in second grade the girl next to me ALWAYS had headlice. We had to sit in alphabetical order. Every time the nurse came thorugh with her nit comb and spray alcohol this girl had it, yet I sat next to her for years and I never got it. Maybe luck combined with daily bathing.










I am not going to dignify the rest of the drivel you posted about dirty kids with a reply, but I do have to give you some clarification on head lice. Unless you are CHECKING DAILY, the number of baths that you give your child with not help nor hinder you finding it quicker. You will not see them during a bath UNLESS YOU LOOK! My daughter had it twice when she was younger, both times were when I was anal about her appearance, cause I (mistakenly) thought that was part of what made me a good mother. I think it might be because I was ignorant to the fact that clean kids can get it *gasp* and was lulled into a false sense of security so I did not check. Since I have got off my high horse about how my kids look, and let them be kids *gasp again* she has not gotten it once, but I still check and do my best to minimize her heads contact with other kids and their head accessories (mostly by keeping her hair up in a bun at school and asking her not to share head things) but so what if she gets it again. Worse things have happened.


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## amanda2b2 (Oct 28, 2004)

Head lice are more attracted to clean hair than dirty. Lice have nothing to do with how dirty or clean you are.

Kids should be allowed to get dirty!!!!


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## captain crunchy (Mar 29, 2005)

our daughter is only 3 months old, but bring on the dirt!! When she is old enough to crawl/explore etc...she will have free reign unless it is dangerous/toxic etc... weonly clean with vinegar and baking soda so I probably won't even babyproof the cabinets they are kept in -- call me "neglectful" but I am all about dirt -- it is a natural immune system builder... I had her at home, didn't "sanitize" or any crap like that beforehand, just cleaned with my regular ol' vinegar ... we don't wash our hands when we hold her unless we have just used the bathroom or something (that is just common sense)...sometimes her paci will be stuck in the crook of the chair and I will kind of wipe in on my shirt and pop it back in her mouth.... guess I am a terrible mother but for 3 months she is healthier than ever (never been vaxxed etc)....

This obsession with cleanliness in our society is creepy to me -- of course, I am not about to let her knaw on the side of the cat's litter box or go days without bathing if there is an inch of crust all over her --- and if we were going to a wedding/funeral/party/pictures etc I would make sure she was squeaky clean and cute as a button... but for every day living, I am more concerned with her happiness (and mine) than with following her around with a can of Lysol or something...

And about lice, for your info lady, my mom was kind of like you are (but not so anal!!) and we got bathed EVERY SINGLE NIGHT even if we didn't even get dirty... hair washed, the whole deal, and guess who got lice in the second grade? Yup, Miss clean, me.... and everyone is talking about lice like it will freaking kill you and is the most disgusting thing to ever happen... of course it is kind of yucky, no one wants it, but shit happens.... it was just very unpleasant combing my hair out with that crap in it (the stuff to kill them) as my hair was very long and thick ... but I never got it again so it was just luck of the draw (or un-luck as it were)...

As far as the grocery store thing... yeah I might swipe her face and hands with a baby wipe or something before going but I am not about to do a wardrobe change and a bath just to pick up some friggin soy milk....

Some people are WAY uptight....


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## westernmamomma (Aug 25, 2005)

You should see people when I let my 2yo dd splash in puddles! "What do you do she gets wet?" mmmm..... let me see.....dry her off? That's why we're made washable!


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## Crunchier (Jun 26, 2003)

I'm ok with safe dirt, no throwing, no eating. I do let him go shopping with cheesy, crackery clothes, but not actually dirty.


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## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:

I don't think i would want to offer up how often my young children (don't) bathe.
Glad I'm not the only one :LOL I won't even go into the long list of yucky stuff my 2 year old has eaten. He's curious about things, he feels it, smells it, tastes it, and just explores it in general. He also has never really been sick and is very bright. Both boys roll around the sandbox (usually after spitting hose water at each other) or shimmy around the garden on their bellies chasing bugs and worms. They love puddles and throw grass and leaves at each other for fun. My 2 year old doesn't even wear pants anymore, they just get wet and slow him down. He spent his morning crawling through the IL's garden eating whatever fruits and veggies he could find (not sprayed).

As for stores, I would be more worried about the chemicals in the soaps and baby wipes than I would be about a little dirt. My kids are frequently dirty in stores. I try to wash their hands and faces so they don't get merchandise dirty, but usually we just grab them and go (and quite often any trip in the van requires a detour to the sandbox or flower bed). Dh can't resist a mudpuddle splash-fest in any parking lot we happen to be in (just watered plants at the garden centers provide many), I just ask him to try to refrain splashing with the boys until AFTER we shop because I don't always enjoy carrying a wet and muddy child around the store.

FWIW my ds1 has a lot of sensory issues. It has taken all of his 4 years to overcome freaking out about dirt and grass on him, but we have worked a lot on it just slowly encouraging him to try new things. He used to scream and freak out at the smallest amount of dirt, but now he rolls around in the sandbox. He enjoys so many more things now (like looking for bugs) that he never would have done before. It took a lot of time and patience, but I really believe playing in the muck has so much value to children.

And no, I don't bathe them every day, or even every other day. We go far too long between baths sometimes. Ah well, they are dirty. Not the end of the world. The friction of tomorrows play will rub off the dirt from today right :LOL And horror of horrors, we don't use soap OR shampoo. I do hate sleeping in a pile of sand though.......


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## Shann (Dec 19, 2003)

When my boys were younger, I never saw the extreme importance of bathing them every day. So they often went 2, 3,4 days without a bath, and we didn't worry how dirty they OR their clothes got. They got baths eventually and were none the worse for wear. Now that they are older, they are allowed to choose their own schedule for bathing, and they also don't necessarily see a need for the daily routine. But that's up to them now, and I still don't worry about it .


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## Wabi Sabi (Dec 24, 2002)

I thought of this thread while my 11 mo. old baby was getting delightfully dirty at the park today.

He got filthy rolling in the sand, crawling in the grass, and chewing on sticks. I turned my attention away for just a second and in the meantime he dumped out my yogurt into the sand. He had a blast playing in the sand/yogurt mess. A while later, my friend's dd set her container of bubbles down on the ground and you guessed it- ds found them, dumped them out, then had a grand time splashing and rolling the liquid. And oh yeah, he also has a runny nose. Let me tell you, snot is a dirt magnet!

By the time we left, ds was literally caked in dirt, sand, grass stains, yogurt, snot, and bubble solution. His hair was crusted with dried goo. You would have never guessed that he'd bathed with me this morning.

We came straight home, but if I had needed to run a quick errand I wouldn't have hesitated. Maybe I would have gotten some dirty looks in the grocery store, but frankly, I don't give a damn because my filthy little boy couldn't have been happier!


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## tyedyedeyes (Apr 5, 2005)

DS LOVES getting filthy. I have no problems with it. If we're outside playing, chances are at least one of us is dirty. I'll get right down in the dirt with him. Monday afternoon we spent over at my moms house (They're out of the country in GREECE!!! <jealous> ) and DS loves to play in their huge backyard and garden, (and I love doing laundry and hanging it out on the line :LOL )
and gets really dirty. It was rather warm outside, so he's out there naked, covered in sand from the sandbox, dirt/mud from the garden, blackberry juices (he just eats 'em off the vine of course) and snot.

<sigh> I love my dirty little boy....


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## mommy73 (Sep 17, 2005)

I have allways belived that there nothing wrong with a child being dirty, as long as it's not day old dirt









Two years ago we took our children to Mighty Mud Mania, in St Louis see
http://www.co.st-louis.mo.us/parks/mud-mania.html The Children LOVED IT!
It is the ultimate place for parents to take your children to have some good clean dirty fun.

I am allso a strong beliver that going barefoot should be a part of childhood, i wish that children could go to school barefoot, there is no good reason why this should not be allowed, up to the last half of the 20th century it was very common for children to go to school barefoot.









Please see my fav web site Parents for Barefoot Children at, www.unshod.org/pfbc

God Bless you all............Beth.

Beth Chandler... [email protected]


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## RedWine (Sep 26, 2003)

Mommy73,

That mud party looks like fun!!

And, slightly OT, my dd1 goes barefoot as much as possible. I get SO many sideways looks at the playground. :LOL

By the way,


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## trinity6232000 (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy73*
Two years ago we took our children to Mighty Mud Mania, in St Louis see
http://www.co.st-louis.mo.us/parks/mud-mania.html The Children LOVED IT!
It is the ultimate place for parents to take your children to have some good clean dirty fun.

I am allso a strong beliver that going barefoot should be a part of childhood, i wish that children could go to school barefoot, there is no good reason why this should not be allowed, up to the last half of the 20th century it was very common for children to go to school barefoot.









*How much fun does that look!?!?!* I love it! We're big bare footers
here. Actually I go barefoot so often that my feet are permanently off color.
I shower and scrub them everyday. I guess the dirt has become a part of
me. My dd is not at all like me. She demands socks on her feet at all times.
So if she wants to take her shoes off I get muddy little socks, but she's
happy, I'm happy, and the oxy clean company is happy.


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

My kids get dirty. But when we go out I take a washcloth to their faces, hands and knees. But if I forget about it, oh well.

I have a friend that everytime we see takes T to the bathroom to wash his hands and face. It pisses me off.

Just wanted to add that being judgemental about dirty kids is just as bad about being judgemental about those that don't get dirty.

Oh, and I am an adult that gets dirty at the drop of a hat. I can just sit in a room alone with nothing around and be filthy in 10 minutes....


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## BrooklynDoula (Oct 23, 2002)

My ds is always dirty. i swear hi is only clean while he is actually in the bath. Who cares? There are lots of things one could be concerned about - like maybe I don't like having to put my kid in the cart after your clean kid because you use a toxic laundry soap or you put lotions on your child that I find offensive or any number of equally crazy assertions. It's not like you have a right to a shopping cart for your kid, it is a convinence you don't have to use.

If someone saw me at the store and thought my kid was dirty and said something to me I would not only be terribly offended, I would think they were clearly a very small minded, petty person.

Dirty is good. You should have seen our friend painting with mud on the kids bellies yesterday!


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## Kathryn (Oct 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RedWine*
Umm..I've been that mama. My youngest (5 months) went through a one week phase of spitting up a LOT. I got tired of changing her shirt every ten minutes. Also, it was HOT here. So I just stopped putting clothes on her for a while. I thought she was very cute! Never would have crossed my mind that I might be annoying someone! I think all naked babies are adorable.









The only reason it bothers me to see a baby in just a diaper (which I've done many times with my dd) is cause the ones I've seen are practicly purple cause they're so cold in the freezer section. I usually offer up a baby blanket or something to them.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

In my purely unprofessional opinion, anyone who is so utterly obsessed with "dirt" and cleanliness should seriously consider exploring those feelings with a trained counselor. Jeesh.


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

DD gets dirty as often as she likes. She doesn't aways want to but when she does she gets good and filthy.
Mommy73 I just checked out your barefoot website and loved it. My DD loves to be barefoot (as does her father) .
We were at a birthday party last week and DD was playing outside without shoes. Another mom was scolding her daughter about not having shoes on and she turned to my DD and said, "You should probably have shoes on too" My DD said, "I have tough feet" and continued on her way.


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## Boobiemama (Oct 2, 2002)

LOL If its gross, then my kids are gross too. And besides the dirt and mud, mine also run through chicken crap barefoot. Although they are required to take a bath after being in the chicken coop....


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## Shann (Dec 19, 2003)

I am very happy to see that this thread shows that the VAST majority of parents in here don't mind having dirty kids...and in most cases, just like my kids, VERY D-I-R-T-Y kids! I have always enjoyed letting my kids get dirty and stay dirty for a long while, and this thread has redeemed my faith in that! Thanks, all you mommas of dirty kids! Keep up the dirty work!


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## westernmamomma (Aug 25, 2005)

It rained here yesterday, and you should have seen the looks I got for the puddle jumping I encouraged. It's only water, and actually washed off some of the dirt that had accumulated on dd's feet. I'm all for that!


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## MtBikeLover (Jun 30, 2005)

We are all for rolling in the dirt as well. And if someone ever tapped me on the shoulder in the grocery store and asked me if I knew what soap was, I'd tell my kids to close their ears while I told that parent to "Go to Hell". One thing I have learned is to never judge a parent because I have no idea what their day has been like. Unless, of course, I see a child being neglected or abused. Then I judge away because there is absolutely no excuse for that. And another note on this topic, sometimes there are medical reasons for not being able to bathe. My son had surgery and had stitches and was told no bath for 5 days. Sure we tried to wash him with a washcloth, but I know that didn't get him anywhere clean enough. I sure am glad that none of his friends decided he was too dirty to play with. and I sure hope that no one thought I was being neglectful for my son looking a little dirty.

At the park behind our house, there is a puddle that fills up under the slide. My son (2.5 yo) loves to slide down and land right in the puddle. Sure he gets filthy but boy does he love it. I actually had a parent tell him not to play in there because he would get dirty and I said "No, its ok if he plays there" and I turned around and told him it was ok to get dirty.

DD is 8 months and we went to the Beach the other day and she loved crawling around in the sand. She also loved it when her brother poured sand all over her body (until he did it to her hair!). They had so much fun and I didn't worry for a second about how dirty she got.


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## ToniaStarr (Sep 27, 2005)

I have two very active boys who seem to be always filthy. They are outdoor lovers and I couldn't keep em clean if I tried. And I do. They are washed everytime they eat and after and before snacks and meals. And before bed. It can be tough though...please do not assume a parent is lazy or bad if you see a child dirty. Just recently our family was living in tents and I tried my best but we were too broke to get them hair cuts. I kept them as clean as I could but living outdoors meant they had access to dirt and I certainly could not keep them in the tents all day long. I washed them OFTEN with baby wipes and sponge baths but had to rush out a couple times to the store for something (had to grab a ride when I could) and was very self conciese by the LOOKS.
I am fairly open minded about them playing outdoors. I am a barefoot walkin in the grass type myself so I have few qualms about that unless we are somewhere I am not comfy with like a public park or such. In their own backyard is another story.
Tonia







:


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

Call me crazy but my ds has never gotten dirty playing outside.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sharlla*
Call me crazy but my ds has never gotten dirty playing outside.

Is your yard a concrete lot?


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## Earth Angel (Dec 13, 2004)

My boys get dirty...and they LOVE it!! Just the other day Dh had them undressing on the proch cause the 3 (2 boys and Dh) of them had gotten really into playing in the mud puddles.

I actually think it is really important for all children to play with the earth. Climbing trees, making mud pies, playing with water outside, all of these things connect them to the earth from which they came.

I can't imagine not allowing my children to get dirty. That would cause them so many hang ups in the end. I do understand if children don't want to get down and dirty outside, but I'd still encourage that type of play creatively if I could.

I remember really enjoying myself when I was a kid, outside playing with rocks, dirt etc with my friends. I still like to get outside and play in the dirt....but now that I'm older it has to be in the form of "gardening" so that I'm not considered a freak :LOL

Quote:

Call me crazy but my ds has never gotten dirty playing outside.
I'm assuming that your joking, and if not, WOW....just WOW.


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Earth Angel*
I actually think it is really important for all children to play with the earth. Climbing trees, making mud pies, playing with water outside, all of these things connect them to the earth from which they came...

I remember really enjoying myself when I was a kid, outside playing with rocks, dirt etc with my friends.


ITA!


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Do you know that the more unique sensory experiences a child has, the more the sensory and motor neurons interact, forming inter-neurons, which connect one type of neuron to another. Sensory play (including playing in the mud, dirt, snow, water, etc!!!) are important for development.


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## tayndrewsmama (May 25, 2004)

Oh I have no problems with my kids being dirty or playing in the dirt and such. What I cannot understand is why the same people who freak out about dirt are the same ones who don't think twice about their kids sitting in a restaraunt high chair, or licking a shopping cart handle, or playing with all the toys in the waiting room at a Children's Hospital. What they should be worried about is what they can't see, not some dirt and grime.

But, I know I have issues with that myself. Dh thinks that hand sanitizer commercial with the lady and her kids waiting for someone to open the door so they don't have to touch it is hilarious and eerily similar to me. I pull my hand in my sleeve to open the door.







:


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:



Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharlla
Call me crazy but my ds has never gotten dirty playing outside.

Is your yard a concrete lot?
:LOL Gosh I hope so if not please throw some dirt on your child








Wait do you mean your not yet 4 month old? Well umm okay I'm assumming hes not mobile yet














:nana:

Deanna


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