# Soda!



## KweenKrunch (Jul 25, 2009)

Looking for some input from like-minded mothers...

My children have never had soda, as we do not keep it in the house and never order it on the very rare occasion when we eat out. I think it's liquid candy and the pinnacle of "junk" food - just terrible.

However, I hesitantly took my 6-year-old to a birthday party for a neighbor child who has mainstream parents (public school, supermarket food, television, well-child visits, etc.) and there were sodas in a cooler. Some of the adults were partaking, and some were pouring a bit of soda into cups for their kids.

Now, don't get me wrong. I do not judge other parents and what they feel is right for their families. However, I am very adamant that my children do not consume addictive and unhealthy substances that contribute to tooth decay, obesity and offer no redeeming nutritional value. I have not consumed soda in over 15 years, so I definitely model this to my kids.

Of course, at the party, my daughter asked for some "soda in the can" and I said absolutely not. She was upset with me and started to beg in front of the other parents and children. One of the moms said she could cut a bit of soda with water, which really undermined my position, and I held my ground.

Now I am wondering if I did the right thing. It was a rough afternoon for us because the cake wasn't vegan and so we couldn't have any, and my daughter left the party feeling left out and sulky.

Now I am really questioning myself - should I not have let her go? I am reluctant to quiz parents as to what they will be serving at their kids' parties - because it's really their business and I understand that completely - but I cannot keep being put in these situations where my values are undermined by the mainstreamers and my daughter isn't old enough to appreciate that I have her best interest at heart.

How do you other natural living mamas deal with the times when your children feel "left out" of the things mainstreamed kids are "getting" to do?

Thanks for reading and for your input...


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## leighi123 (Nov 14, 2007)

Maybe next time talk to her about it before hand - you could bring a special drink/snack that she could have instead so she wont feel left out. (my ds gets a special kind of all-fruit organic juice, that he only gets once in a while like at parties)

I think giving an advance warning, explaining that there will be junk food there but we dont drink/eat it because ___. Might make it easier on her knowing what to expect. Also focus on the stuff she CAN do at the party - play games, be with friends etc.


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## Kidzaplenty (Jun 17, 2006)

IMHO, I think it is wrong to take a child to a party and then not allow them to partake in the party (ie, the cake and drinks). It is like teasing them, IMO.

You may not allow it in your house or let your children generally have it, but why bother going to a party where the child will feel very left out and isolated because every other child gets to have cake, icecream, and soda?

It is just MO, but if you were not going to let your child enjoy the party, why take DD in the first place? I am guessing that you knew or at least considered that the cake would be not be vegan and that the other food/drink items there would not be something you would allow. So, I am wondering why you went?

I don't mean to sound harsh. I am just thinking about it from the eyes of a six year old that was taken to a birthday party yet not allowed to have any of the party stuff. Sounds very mean to me. And no matter what your convictions are, your child does not understand them at 6.


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## lulu_n2 (Apr 20, 2009)

I hear your plight, I'm very strict on sugar intake. My son is young enough, that I can bring something special for him, sparkling water, juice spritzer... and he's happy with that.
My parents didn't allow me to have sugar as a kid. I grew up feeling "left out" and did a lot of sneaking in sweets when away from my parents. As much as I could get








After having that experience, I let my son have a little of what is being offered. Literally a few bites worth of cake, watered down soda... and just on special occasions. For our own family's special days, I've made it know that we'd appreciate alternatives to the usual.
So the need for me to stretch my values is rare, so far.
I don't blame you one bit for putting your foot down, I only ask what is your daughter going to do when your not there?
Because sweets weren't a part of my daily life though, I soon grew out of them. I don't like soda anymore, and don't keep sweets in the house.


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## fruitfulmomma (Jun 8, 2002)

In the future I think it would be a good idea for you to bring along safe foods for your child. My 2yo dd has a gluten-intolerance and that is what we do.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Well, take this with a grain of salt, since by your definition I am a "mainstream" parent (my kids go to public school, they have had well-child visits, we buy some of our food from a supermarket especially in the winter, and we have televisions in our house) but...

I don't see anything wrong with your stance on the soda issue. I bet your kiddo was probably more enraptured with the "in a can" bit than anything else.

I DO think, however, that despite your protestation that you're not "judging" that honestly...you kinda are. Especially if someone having soda at their house would make you consider not allowing your child to go. Then again, I tell my kids 'no' a lot in regards to things that other people can have and that I do not believe is good for them, so it doesn't bother me when they are pissed at me because of it. I don't really worry what other people think, most of the time they're not really thinking about you after 5 seconds anyway. The woman offering to cut it probably was NOT trying to "undermine" you but rather was trying to come up with a nice compromised, which you politely declined (I assume). Very nice, all around, and nobody but you is likely thinking about it later.

The thing with accepting other people's hospitality is that sometimes they're going to offer you things that you wouldn't have chosen. It's within your guest-right (IMO) to politely refuse. If your child isn't quite ready to follow home rules when you're not there, then if you accept invitations you'll have to be there too (which, you were, so this is not a big change).

I don't see the host in the wrong. I don't see that you are in the wrong either (I might quibble with how you've boxed people up though, and with the idea that you're not negatively "judging" people when you pretty obviously are!)

It sounds like you were kind of embarrassed by your daughter's behavior "begging in front of other people" but you're only focusing on the environment. I get that, I hate it when my kids do that too--it IS kind of embarassing when you unexpectedly are made the center of attention (I really hate whining and begging too, it's my fasted button the kids can push). But they also know that if I say no once, and that it is not up for discussion, then further begging means that we leave (many things ARE up for discussion, but in the situation above, that would have been a non-negotiable for me as well.)


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## kcstar (Mar 20, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kidzaplenty* 
IMHO, I think it is wrong to take a child to a party and then not allow them to partake in the party (ie, the cake and drinks). It is like teasing them, IMO.

You may not allow it in your house or let your children generally have it, but why bother going to a party where the child will feel very left out and isolated because every other child gets to have cake, icecream, and soda?

It is just MO, but if you were not going to let your child enjoy the party, why take DD in the first place? I am guessing that you knew or at least considered that the cake would be not be vegan and that the other food/drink items there would not be something you would allow. So, I am wondering why you went?

I don't mean to sound harsh. I am just thinking about it from the eyes of a six year old that was taken to a birthday party yet not allowed to have any of the party stuff. Sounds very mean to me. And no matter what your convictions are, your child does not understand them at 6.

This. Maybe I'm more mainstream than most, but I think the important part is what happens on the regular daily / weekly basis at home. For a party outside the home, I suggest either: 1) let them eat one bite and one sip, then provide your own snacks for the main "meal", or 2) don't go. Your mileage will vary.


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## Mama Mko (Jul 26, 2007)

I would bring safe cake if you're a strict vegan because it really sucks if your child can't have cake while everyone else is eating cake. My son is allergic to many things so I always just bring his own food.

On the soda thing, if there's not a food allergy, I'd let them have it occasionally. I just don't think having it very rarely is going to be a health concern. Just my opinion.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote isn't working on my phone, but I wanted to say I really like Tigerchild's post (and btw, it's good to know I'm a bit mainsteam after all







) what she said makes a lot of sense - even though I am a parent who allows soda on occasion and has served store bought cake - I respect that the OP wants only the best for her child.

But, I kinda agree with kidzaplenty, too. Chances are that if you go to a birthday party there will be plenty of things that don't fit in with a vegan and sugar-free lifestyle. Your child doesn't have any say, it seems, so it is a bit cruel to taunt her like that with treats at a fun celebration she won't be allowed to have.


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

I also agree with Kidzaplenty. I do not think it is a good idea to take a 6-year-old to a party where she can't eat the same cake and drink the same drinks as the other kids. But I'm an "everything in moderation" kind of parent and honestly can't imagine forbidding my children to have normal, everyday birthday cake throughout their entire childhood.


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## bezark (Mar 17, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *becoming* 
I also agree with Kidzaplenty. I do not think it is a good idea to take a 6-year-old to a party where she can't eat the same cake and drink the same drinks as the other kids. But I'm an "everything in moderation" kind of parent and honestly can't imagine forbidding my children to have normal, everyday birthday cake throughout their entire childhood.

Yea, that.
I am also of the opinion that the bigger deal you make of some things, the bigger deal they will be to your child.


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## Youngfrankenstein (Jun 3, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kidzaplenty* 
IMHO, I think it is wrong to take a child to a party and then not allow them to partake in the party (ie, the cake and drinks). It is like teasing them, IMO.

You may not allow it in your house or let your children generally have it, but why bother going to a party where the child will feel very left out and isolated because every other child gets to have cake, icecream, and soda?

It is just MO, but if you were not going to let your child enjoy the party, why take DD in the first place? I am guessing that you knew or at least considered that the cake would be not be vegan and that the other food/drink items there would not be something you would allow. So, I am wondering why you went?

I don't mean to sound harsh. I am just thinking about it from the eyes of a six year old that was taken to a birthday party yet not allowed to have any of the party stuff. Sounds very mean to me. And no matter what your convictions are, your child does not understand them at 6.

Pretty much all that. I just don't see a soda a few times a year will be harmful. I don't see it any worse than other junk foods. Obviously you don't provide it at home so I'd think that would take care of keeping the times she does have it few and far between.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I'll jump on the kidzaplenty train. I understand wanting your child to eat well, but at some point the dietary issues are going to cause hurt feelings. So long as it's occasional (like just at birthday parties), IMO feelings are more important than diet. I understand not budging on the vegan issue, so maybe a little soda would have spared her feelings. I would have said, "Sorry about the cake" and been lax on the soda issue, personally. Well, I'm not vegan so I would have said OK to the cake too - though my dd doesn't like cake - but like I said I get that a vegan can't sometimes have non-vegan stuff.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Yeah, I agree with the other moms.

Might I also gently suggest that sugar does have some redeeming value? Not particular nutritional value, but the ability to make things taste exceptionally wonderful, and to make us feel a little bit of joy. Maybe I'm not actually a like-minded mom, though. I do try to talk to my kids about how our strong bodies can handle a little bit of sugar, and how it makes things taste really good, and it's good to have for a treat or special occasion like a birthday party. I will not have them under my roof forever, and I would hate to send a child who had never had any refined sugar to the dorms.


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

If it was the in a can part your DD was focused on could you find something else in a can she could drink? I think they make seltzer water in a can and I know you can get oj and apple juice in a can. I know juice isn't that great, but it's better than pop and then she could still be having something in a can like everyone else.


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## Mountaingirl79 (Jul 12, 2008)

I'm probably more mainstream than I like to think







but I also don't give my children soda at home. But then again, I believe in teaching my children moderation in all things, so I see the occasional soda or sugar treat at a celebration as a good treat and not at all detrimental to their overall health and well being. It's a good thing, imho, to teach them that someone can have just one or just a taste and be satisfied with it.

When soda or treats are offered or preferred for an event, I usually try to choose carrot cake or seltzer water with a splash if it is available, it seems like a good compromise and elevates anyone feeling left out.

But, that is all just what works for our family.


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## ChetMC (Aug 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kidzaplenty* 
IMHO, I think it is wrong to take a child to a party and then not allow them to partake in the party (ie, the cake and drinks). It is like teasing them, IMO.

This is my feeling as well. Our kids get junk at parties, events, and in restaurants if other people are having it, and if they ask for it. For several reasons :

- It's rude and unfair to ask anybody to watch others eat and drink while they look on wishing they had some too. We hope to teach our children healthy eating. but good manners and sensitivity as well.

- Ultimately, it's more useful for kids to learn moderation and how to consume sensibly than to have their diet micromanaged. Our kids know what is junk, and that it doesn't help their bodies grow. Feeling denied and like you have no control over what you eat can lead to some pretty serious food issues.

I think it's very reasonable for you to bring some alternatives for your DD, ones that she would find acceptable. But honestly, you may find that she doesn't even like pop once she tries it. Our kids don't really care for carbonated beverages. and generally consider chocolate milk and orange juice even of a treat at celebrations.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

If you're invited to a party by people who you strongly suspect don't share your food values, then it's up to you, as a parent to bring something that your children WILL be able to partake in when the other kids have cake and treats. I know a fair number of people with children with severe food allergies, or who are gluten/casein free. We know one family who keeps kosher. They always bring food that they know is 'safe' for their kids.

I would buy some natural juice boxes and bring those to the next party. (FWIW, I hate juice boxes because of the packaging. But you can buy 6 and have them last 6 months if they're a treat.) Bring a piece of vegan cake. Your child is young enough now to have a really hard time resisting things, even if she understands it intellectually. You can short circuit that by bringing your own special things.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KweenKrunch* 
mainstream parents (public school, supermarket food, television, well-child visits, etc.).

Two thoughts on this: First, you ARE judging. That's OK, we ALL judge. I think it's better to acknowledge that you're judging rather than to say that it doesn't matter to you when it clearly does. Be up-front about your values. (FWIW, by your definition, I'm mainstream. My neighbors would beg to differ (I nursed well beyond 2, I have a small organic garden in the front, we pull our weeds by hand and refuse to put chemicals on the lawn, we limit (but don't forbid) screen time), but I will readily acknowledge being more mainstream than you are.)

But this leads me to my second point: I think it's important to separate your food values from some of these other things. You can, believe it or not, cook whole foods from scratch while shopping at a supermarket. For reasons that aren't germane to this post, I'm a firm believer in public schools. But, you have some very definite and clear values around food. That's great. But you also need to be prepared when you bring your children to events where you know (or at least suspect) there is going to be food that you can't tolerate.


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

I agree with all those who suggest you bring your safe foods with you on these occasions. You don't have to compromise your food beliefs, but for your dd's emotional well-being, you should be prepared to help her out. A 6 y.o. is just not going to understand why she can't enjoy the same food and drink as everyone around. She won't have the capacity to be graceful about denying herself these pleasures - and that's what they will seem like to her - not dangers.

If you quietly decline what's offered, having already pulled out some special treats of your own, she's less likely to make a fuss. And who knows, maybe if others try some of your special foods, they may find something they like too. Win-win all around.


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## mom2reenie (Nov 14, 2006)

I'm going to disagree with a lot here

--Please don't bring your own food, unless you talk to the host first. It's not a food allergy, it's because you judge the choice of food not good enough for you dd. To me that is ruder than telling your dd absolutely not in front of the other moms. Either explain to your dd that she isn't going to be able to eat at the party, or realize it's a treat and moderation isn't a bad thing and let dd enjoy a little of a special treat.
--The thread is judgemental. I'm sure the moms all felt like you thought they were making the wrong choice for their children and I'm sure some moms felt you were making the wrong choice. Not right or wrong, just the way society is. You can politely decline food at a party. DD does it all the time and has since she was little. She'll request water and eat only the food that she likes (which isn't alot).
--Mainstream people aren't evil. They are different than you. Some of my closest friends parent completely different from me and it's great. I learn from them, they learn from me and our kids learn from each other. So don't close yourself and your dd from pareties that are held differently than yours. Be respectful to their choices and they'll be respectful to yours.

I don't think there is anything wrong with not letting your dd have soda, but I think the situation could have been a great party and time for your dd if you'd discuss what she can/can't eat before the party, polietely decline to the host if you don't eat, and keep an open mind to those who parent differently than you.


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## Mama2Bug (Feb 18, 2005)

I am a vegetarian and so is my DD, so I understand the point of not allowing your child to eat non-vegan birthday cake. I often end up in this sort of situation when other kids are eating, say, fruit snacks and DD can't have any because of the gelatin. I have explained that there is gelatin in those candies and we don't eat that because it is made from the body of an animal, yada yada yada.... She gets it. But the death of an animal is a very concrete idea and easy to grasp, especially since we have pets. My DD understands ingredients because she sees me cook. And there is always some sort of substitute available- another kind of "treat" etc. If I think DD won't be able to eat the main course, like pepperoni pizza, we bring something along. She is not upset about it, because she doesn't _want_ to eat animals and she even finds it kind of gross (though she certainly knows better than to say anything!) that the other kids _do_ eat them.

However, I would have budged on the soda. We don't have soda in the house either, but DH and I sometimes drink it when we're out. (DD has tried it, but dislikes carbonation.) We see it as a treat. It's something that is not good for you that you have very occasionally, just because it tastes good. It's isn't something to be drunk for hydration. We know it isn't good for us. It's enjoyed for its taste, like any kind of candy. We certainly don't eat that kind of thing every day, or even every week. DD's snacks are fruit, cheese, whole grain crackers etc. But on a special occasion, we allow her to eat the special treats, because it's a celebration of happiness and the treats enhance that joy.

I am assuming, but you probably grew up in mainstream american culture. You know that birthday parties tend to entail cake, ice cream, candy, chips and soda. I know it isn't healthy, good for you or even a tradition that _should_ be continued, but it is what it is. When you take your child to a birthday party, there's a very good chance that those things will be there. Unless you've laid it all out for her beforehand, your DD is going to want to join in the same "fun" as the other children. If you don't prepare with some very tempting treats of your own to "make up" for that, she's going to be unhappy.

The problem is that, at six, your DD doesn't understand the implications of HFCS, childhood obesity, diabetes, the commercial foods industry or any of those things. You can explain them, but she isn't able yet to process the scope of them. She does, however, feel difference very keenly and, in the moment, all she's going to be able to focus on is that the other children are doing/eating something that is clearly enjoyable and you won't allow her to do the same.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kidzaplenty* 
IMHO, I think it is wrong to take a child to a party and then not allow them to partake in the party (ie, the cake and drinks). It is like teasing them, IMO.

You may not allow it in your house or let your children generally have it, but why bother going to a party where the child will feel very left out and isolated because every other child gets to have cake, icecream, and soda?

It is just MO, but if you were not going to let your child enjoy the party, why take DD in the first place? I am guessing that you knew or at least considered that the cake would be not be vegan and that the other food/drink items there would not be something you would allow. So, I am wondering why you went?

I don't mean to sound harsh. I am just thinking about it from the eyes of a six year old that was taken to a birthday party yet not allowed to have any of the party stuff. Sounds very mean to me. And no matter what your convictions are, your child does not understand them at 6.









: I totally agree.


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## Pepper44 (May 16, 2006)

I think making a big deal of something--in this case sugar and soda--turns it into a big deal for your child. It's one thing to not buy it and explain how it's unhealthy, but if you always completely and totally restrict it don't you think one day when you aren't there she's going to realize she has the freedom to gulp it down? Then she'll either love it and want to keep drinking it or it will make her sick.

And just because I'm curious, how do you not shop at the supermarket at all? Where do you get fruits and veggies in the winter? I don't think shopping at the grocery store makes someone "mainstream"...


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## KristyDi (Jun 5, 2007)

Hanging around a bunch of people eating, drinking and having a good time and not being allowed to take part sucks, especially if you're 6 years old.

It would also suck not to be allowed to go to a friend's party because their food isn't up to mom's standards.

IMO, you need to either bend a bit on the restrictions for special occasions or take food you're ok with, but that would be a treat to your dd for her to have.

Having a brother who is a type 1 diabetic this is something my family dealt with a lot. My mom frequently offered to bring something to the party. Then she'd make one of my brother's favorite things. That way there'd be at least one thing he could enjoy without feeling singled out.

This kind of stuff does make an impression on kids. My brother wrote a great essay in college called ". . .And I had Animal Crackers" (a reference to getting animal crackers rather than cupcakes or cookies or whatever other treat the kids in school were getting) about the constant singling out. It doesn't have to be damaging but I think it's important to acknowledge that yes, our food choices, whether they are for medical or personal reasons, do affect our kids, especially if they're outside the norm.


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom2reenie* 
I'm going to disagree with a lot here

--Please don't bring your own food, unless you talk to the host first. It's not a food allergy, it's because you judge the choice of food not good enough for you dd. To me that is ruder than telling your dd absolutely not in front of the other moms. Either explain to your dd that she isn't going to be able to eat at the party, or realize it's a treat and moderation isn't a bad thing and let dd enjoy a little of a special treat.

I think it's a very good idea to talk to the host first, but I guess I don't see this situation as very different from someone who keeps kosher. Food beliefs are valid whatever their basis. I wouldn't mind if they brought an alternative to a party. Although actually if I was hosting, I would first try to make sure there were some good alternatives available for them - because I respect their food values and their situation.

It would be really nice if the 6 y.o. understood the situation. It's really great that some children have developed this kind of maturity and social grace. Not all will though, and they deserve some positive help in this kind of situation.


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## Beene (May 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mountaingirl79* 
I'm probably more mainstream than I like to think







but I also don't give my children soda at home. But then again, I believe in teaching my children moderation in all things, so I see the occasional soda or sugar treat at a celebration as a good treat and not at all detrimental to their overall health and well being. It's a good thing, imho, to teach them that someone can have just one or just a taste and be satisfied with it.

nak. Beautifully said. why did you take you dc to a party you knew wasn't going to be as strict as your household without bringing, say, a piece of vegan cake? DH and I started being strict about our diets waaaay before i got knocked up, but something we have always liked to do when going to dinner parties is to bring our own vegan dish or a small vegan cake or cookies to share with everyone!!! It's fun to watch other people enjoying something they wouldn't have thought they would, swapping recipes and such. I think your idea of mainstream is pretty narrow, but you're certainly not making any friends by judging the food offered. Your dc may even feel special if she brings her special treats to shae with friends!







:

I think it is this obsessive controlling thing that makes children addicted to sugar/alcohol/pornography/whatever later on in life. Also, the "mainstreamers" as you say will see conscious parents as horrible weirdos if they see all of us making our kids cry and beg for a taste of soda. The best way to break the stereotype is to SHARE your life with others, not think you're above it all and micromanage. Bring a plate of vegan cookies for everyone!


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## ChetMC (Aug 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom2reenie* 
Please don't bring your own food, unless you talk to the host first. It's not a food allergy, it's because you judge the choice of food not good enough for you dd. To me that is ruder than telling your dd absolutely not in front of the other moms.

In addition to the soda thing, the OP also mentioned that they were vegan. I am not at all offended when a vegetarian or vegan brings their own food to supplement the party offering for their child without talking to me first.


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## fruitfulmomma (Jun 8, 2002)

Quote:

In addition to the soda thing, the OP also mentioned that they were vegan. I am not at all offended when a vegetarian or vegan brings their own food to supplement the party offering for their child without talking to me first.
This. I disagree very strongly with the OP's stance but what if her family ate Kosher or held to some other type of religious diet that restricted foods? Would you still be all over her insisting that she let her kid eat foods that went against their beliefs?


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## tankgirl73 (Jun 10, 2007)

Quote:

Ultimately, it's more useful for kids to learn moderation and how to consume sensibly than to have their diet micromanaged. Our kids know what is junk, and that it doesn't help their bodies grow. Feeling denied and like you have no control over what you eat can lead to some pretty serious food issues.
This.

I'd also suggest, in addition to talking to your child ahead of time, talking to the parent hosting the party ahead of time. If there are any food issues -- be it allergies, religious restrictions, or philosophical or nutritional or whatever, the host would like to know. 9 times out of 10, they will make sure something special is available for the affected kid.

I know that as a host myself, I'd hate to prepare a great fun feast for the kids then on the day of the party, one child arrive and tell me they couldn't have any. I'd be feeling like a poor host, not having something available for my guest. I'd wish that I had known ahead of time.

For my son's most recent birthday party, there was a child allergic to dairy, one allergic to peanuts, and one diabetic. They all let me know ahead of time. I just made sure there was something for everybody. The no-dairy kid had cake but no ice cream. I made sure the diabetic kid had an opportunity to test before eating. Etc. It all went smoothly... the kids knew what they were and weren't able to eat and nobody was upset about anything, and I wasn't taken off guard. Of course these were 8-11 year olds, not 6, so they're more mature about things in general and have several birthday parties under their belts.


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tankgirl73* 
This.

For my son's most recent birthday party, there was a child allergic to dairy, one allergic to peanuts, and one diabetic. They all let me know ahead of time. I just made sure there was something for everybody.









That's pretty much what it's like around here - and toss in a couple of vegetarians, and occasionally someone who has religious restrictions as well.

In fact, as a host, I just routinely ask now if there are special considerations. I want everyone to enjoy themselves, and it's no fun for anyone if one of the kiddies is unhappy.


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## ChetMC (Aug 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fruitfulmomma* 
This. I disagree very strongly with the OP's stance but what if her family ate Kosher or held to some other type of religious diet that restricted foods? Would you still be all over her insisting that she let her kid eat foods that went against their beliefs?

I don't follow you. mom2reenie suggested that bringing your own food is rude. I don't think it is. I think it's a reasonable solution. It's nice to touch base with the host, but as an example, I've never been offended when somebody brought their own package of veggie dogs and asked if they could put them in the fridge until it was time to barbecue. I don't expect somebody to call ahead about that.

If a parent opts to provide an alternative for their child I think that's fine - for whatever reason. However, when allergies or religion don't preclude a child from sharing what's on offer at a party I think it's reasonable for a parent to consider relaxing the food rules in light of the fact that it's a celebration and a shared experience.


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## fruitfulmomma (Jun 8, 2002)

Quote:

I don't follow you. mom2reenie suggested that bringing your own food is rude. I don't think it is. I think it's a reasonable solution.
I was agreeing with you. I don't understand why it would be an issue for a guest to bring their own food. Sorry, maybe I should have separated the "This" (a statement of agreement) from the rest of my post which was directed at other posters.

ETA: I know there are different reasons for veganism but since one of the main ones is a moral issue I see it as no different than eating Kosher or whatever and I am a little confused as to why a host would take such offense at a family bringing their own food if they don't want to impose on the host or have their child felt left out. I don't think a parent should have to put aside their moral beliefs just because the child wouldn't understand, although I do agree that the sugar thing could be compromised on.


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

Your kid, your rules--I'm 100% on board with that.

But if I had been the mom throwing the party, I don't think you would be invited back the next year. I don't know how it was at the party, but the tone of the original post seemed like things ended up all about you when really that party was all about the birthday kid.

I'm not clear for myself even exactly what the requirements are for being a good guest, but some of what happened tripped the meter for me. I would have taken the cake, let Dd have a bite and then redirected to something else. Same with the pop. It would have been an unobtrusive way to handle things without openly conflicting with the values of the host family.

We are very anti-sugar and empty calories but we don't outright deny food in a group setting when everyone else is eating the same thing (I've had that done to me and it is beyond isolating and humiliating). We just limit the amount and get DD up and moving on to the next big activity. We are also philosophical about the fact that a little sugar here and there isn't going to kill DD.

I don't know the best way to manage events where some people do XYZ and you do ABC, but my instinct is to avoid the scene and be a good guest. Next year, don't go, send a gift or plan a one-on-one play date at your house with the birthday kid where you control the environment.

V


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## jjawm (Jun 17, 2007)

My thought is this:
We're very strict about what we have in the house, as far as food and drink. But when they go out of our house, to church, parties, and school, they're free to partake in what they want, with the exception of my 2 year old (my boys are 10 and 12). A little sugar, caffiene, or preservatives won't do much harm in my book, because we are so careful at home. And I think feeling 'normal' as a kid is really important, not feeling like mom and dad control everything so they want to rebel.

My hope is that soda and junk will simply taste bad to them since their bodies aren't used to it. Not likely but I can hope.

We also talk a lot about our bodies, what food does, and what junk does and does not do.


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## Dandelionkid (Mar 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Violet2* 
Your kid, your rules--I'm 100% on board with that.

But if I had been the mom throwing the party, I don't think you would be invited back the next year. I don't know how it was at the party, but the tone of the original post seemed like things ended up all about you when really that party was all about the birthday kid.

I'm not clear for myself even exactly what the requirements are for being a good guest, but some of what happened tripped the meter for me. I would have taken the cake, let Dd have a bite and then redirected to something else. Same with the pop. It would have been an unobtrusive way to handle things without openly conflicting with the values of the host family.

We are very anti-sugar and empty calories but we don't outright deny food in a group setting when everyone else is eating the same thing (I've had that done to me and it is beyond isolating and humiliating). We just limit the amount and get DD up and moving on to the next big activity. We are also philosophical about the fact that a little sugar here and there isn't going to kill DD.

I don't know the best way to manage events where some people do XYZ and you do ABC, but my instinct is to avoid the scene and be a good guest. Next year, don't go, send a gift or plan a one-on-one play date at your house with the birthday kid where you control the environment.

V

Well said!


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

By your definition, I'm pretty much another mainstream type. As a frequent hostess of birthday parties, Adventure Guides (they all just left 15 minutes ago), Brownies, and other assorted groups, I'm curious about what I *should* serve to keep everyone happy. For example, a mixed group of families just left. We had everyone from 4 YOs, 5-10 YO boys (the main group), handleful of teens, and parents. I served cookies (homemade, but not vegan), popcorn (ditto), watermelon slices, lemonade (with sugar), Iced Tea (unsweetened), water, soda (Coke, Dt. Coke, 7 Up), beer and sangria. I thought I was doing pretty well, but now I'm wondering what a good hostess should do?

We don't serve soda at home. If there is a choice when we are out they will mostly choose juice, water or lemonade on their own. But if they want a non-caffienated soda its not worth the battle for me to say no. THough I will hold the line on caffiene because their behavior becomes so miserable. For me, there are more important things to battle and take a stand on.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

As the host I would always appreciate knowing if there are dietary restrictions. It doesn't mean I can always accomodate them totally but often I can at least stock an alternative, like have some vegan treat alongside a non-vegan cake, etc.

For the soda... hey, you're the mom, and she's six, so it's your call. I support you in it. I also think your daughter has the right to her feelings about it. That does not mean you have to say yes. It also doesn't mean you'll always have a quick solution or way to make her less upset either (although bringing something else might help, but you know, you can't always know what's going to be offered and bring alternatives). I think you will just have to accept that sometimes she's going to be briefly upset about these things.

I was allergic to milk growing up and I couldn't have a lot of things at parties. It was no fun, and no, I didn't always get it. But it was necessary and I still had lots of fun at the parties doing the other things.

I do want to say though that your statement "but I cannot keep being put in these situations *where my values are undermined by the mainstreamers* and my daughter isn't old enough to appreciate that I have her best interest at heart" is a pretty aggressive statement (the bolded part).

If I eat eggs, I'm not undermining a person who's vegan. I simply have made other choices. The soda is the same. The person who made the offer just wasn't aware that in your head soda is The Ultimate Evil. She was just trying to make it okay for you at that moment.

I think if you want people to respect your space about food you're going to have to also respect different choices. I kind of believe, although it's just a belief, that if we're relaxed (but firm) it makes it better for everyone.

Here's my story about this stuff: I remember being at a friend's home when she offered my son a snack I would normally not give him. That was the first time in his life (he was about 18 mos?) that I had not controlled what he was eating. He accepted it and I did have that little twist of wishing that he hadn't eaten it. It lead to some soul searching. This is what I realized: She is a great mom. I learned from her every time we got together (and still do when we each have time.) She loves her son and my son tons. If I had an emergency I know I could drop my son at her house in the middle of the night and she would do everything she could to be sure he was comfortable and happy.

This means so much more to me than the sugar. Just a thought.


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## fruitfulmomma (Jun 8, 2002)

Quote:

I thought I was doing pretty well, but now I'm wondering what a good hostess should do?
Personally I think you are fine. While it would be nice for a hostess to try to accommodate our gluten-free needs I would not expect them to do this. It is a pain and frankly it is easier for me to bring something along than to have to explain to the hostess why their food, which they thought would be okay, isn't or hope that it remained uncontaminated by all the other non-gf foods.


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## funkymamajoy (May 25, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChetMC* 
In addition to the soda thing, the OP also mentioned that they were vegan. I am not at all offended when a vegetarian or vegan brings their own food to supplement the party offering for their child without talking to me first.









: and if I know that a guest has dietary restrictions (vegan, kosher, allergies, etc) then I try to provide something they can eat too. I don't knowingly invite someone to my table and then provide food they can't have.

But I would've let my kid have the soda.


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## tankgirl73 (Jun 10, 2007)

I wanted to add, when I said to talk to the host before the party, and 9 times out of 10 they'd provide something for you... I *meant* to also add that if they can't, or don't offer, then you can mention you'll bring something yourself. The host still doesn't end up feeling offended that they weren't given the chance to provide something for their guests.

Something like "hi there, thanks so much for inviting DD to the party, she's really looking forward to it. I was just wondering... DD does have some dietary restrictions... she can't have any X Y or Z... will there be anything there she won't be able to eat, or should we bring something for her?"

Something like that. Then it's not you saying "Your Food Choices Suck and Mine Are Superior So We Brought Our Own Food, SURPRISE!" And it's not DEMANDING they accomodate you. It's just informing them of the issue. It might be that the host then answers "oh, thanks for letting me know, there will be item A that has X in it, but everything else should be fine... can she eat B? What if I make sure there's some G around too?" Or she might say "oh dear, I'm afraid everything we've planned has X Y or Z in it. Sure, please bring your own food, terribly sorry for the inconvenience."

Most people these days are very understanding about dietary choices, whether they are "just" choices or more strict problems like allergies. Also if the host knows ahead of time, even if they can't provide something separate, they're less likely to accidentally give your child something without knowing she wasn't supposed to have that.


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## Beene (May 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fruitfulmomma* 
Personally I think you are fine. While it would be nice for a hostess to try to accommodate our gluten-free needs I would not expect them to do this. It is a pain and frankly it is easier for me to bring something along than to have to explain to the hostess why their food, which they thought would be okay, isn't or hope that it remained uncontaminated by all the other non-gf foods.

I still stand behind my suggestion, which I think would solve all of these etiquette problems we seem to be discussing. If your child has diet restrictions, make your favorite recipe for treats and bring enough for everyone to share! That way your child feels special for contributing to the festivities and sharing her treats with her friends and you may even get a chance to share your recipe and choices judgment-free.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

I think you get less sensitive to people bringing their own food the more people you have in your circle who have sensitivities or allergies.

I love to cook, it's one of the few artistic outlets that I have right now. Before I had any kind of connection with sensitive folks, I did feel a little twinge if people brough something more than a typical hostess gift. But then once I became aware, it was fun to learn how to cook/prepare vegan things, GF things, nut/dairy free things, ect. Since cooking is my creative outlet, the challenge was fun! If someone has to bring their own thing, I'm not pissed, just kicking myself for not mentioning that I always prepare something GF and something vegan or asking if they had any allergies/special needs.

The only time I have ever felt offended in the last 12 years of hospitality is when a mom at a playdate sniffed and pulled out "organic" MIC junk food to feed her kid because she ASSumed that my stuff (which wasn't processed and all was not only organic but also came from a farm within walking distance!, except for the amaranth graham crackers, which were organic anyway!) was probably from the regular grocery store.







But even that was more of an eyerolling offendedness rather than a "don't let the door hit your organic buns on the way out sister!" offendedness.


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## MacKinnon (Jun 15, 2004)

As a mom who grew up with a very restricted diet in early childhood, then a free for all when my mom had trouble later on, I never learned how to sensibly limit junk foods. I grew up dreading finding what was in my lunch box, and generally not appreciating the effort my mom made to make and serve us healthy, natural foods. And I totally binged on crap once I hit later high school and college. My DH also had a very restricted diet, and again, had trouble making sensible choices later on. To this day DH will 'sneak' junk foods, buying them at the gas station and scarfing them before he gets home.

As a mom now, we would be considered mainstream by many standards on this board. My kids eat, and enjoy, cake, ice cream, pop, candy and other special foods, on special occasions. We never serve pop in the house, and cake is for birthdays and other special days. Candy is a treat, but not limited on Halloween, Easter and Christmas, and offered at other times. Campfires mean Smores, with Hershey's chocolate bars, and big fluffy (non organic) marshmallows. Our family enjoys our fair share of sugary treats. I'm not opposed to sugar. I am opposed to the massive consumption of HFC at breakfast, snack, lunch and to drink in between.

What matters more to me, is that my kids eat, and love vegetables. They prefer the texture of whole wheat grain products, they ask for fruit over 'junk' more often then not, and understand that eating cake for breakfast, while tasty, will leave you feeling yucky a couple hours later. They prefer grilled chicken over hot dogs, most of the time... and know that fast food isn't healthy to have very often. They eat what we eat, no special 'kid' meals, no short order cooks. We have strove for balance. And that does mean they get fruit leathers instead of fruit roll ups in their lunch boxes, ice water instead of pop when they are thirsty. But when we are in someone elses home, at a party, what is served is what they eat.

I understand the desire to maintain your vegan values. In light of that I would have called ahead and let the hosts know, and offered to bring something else for everyone. And I would have given in on the pop. Feeling singled out, and left out, at 6 will leave a longer lasting impression then you might realize. And I don't think it teaches much, frankly.


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## KweenKrunch (Jul 25, 2009)

Thanks everyone for your input.

To be sure, I was VERY discreet at the party. I really tried not to let the guests and hosts know that I was shocked by the soda, etc. I know it is TOTALLY the mother's prerogative to provide those things for her kids. And, to each her own, right?!

I do like the idea of bringing a special treat for my children when we go out - many of our friends are vegan but as my girls get older we are meeting more and more non-vegans and I guess it's time to accept that this is going to happen. I have a great recipe for soy cake with sunflower seed frosting that would be perfect. I could even freeze individual cupcakes and just pop one out when we go somewhere I suspect is going to serve "treats."

As for the soda, I have to admit I'm a bit surprised so many said they'd have caved in for that. It gives me a lot to think about. I've done a bit of research and apparently Hansens makes an organic soda from cane sugar, not HFCS. I could definitely pray about buying some of those to bring with us when we go somewhere sweet drinks might be served.

And I do want to clarify that I do not judge mainstreamers! I know everyone is doing the best they can with the information they have, and everyone wants what is best for their children. What's good for mine not be the same for yours, kwim?

Also, to the poster who wanted to know how I avoided the supermarket: I grow a lot of my own fruits and vegetables, I frequent the farmer's market, and dry goods are purchased via an organic co-op. I make most of our cleaning supplies. Since we don't consume meat, eggs or dairy it makes it easier.

Thank you all again for your wise insight.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kidzaplenty* 
IMHO, I think it is wrong to take a child to a party and then not allow them to partake in the party (ie, the cake and drinks). It is like teasing them, IMO.

You may not allow it in your house or let your children generally have it, but why bother going to a party where the child will feel very left out and isolated because every other child gets to have cake, icecream, and soda?

It is just MO, but if you were not going to let your child enjoy the party, why take DD in the first place? I am guessing that you knew or at least considered that the cake would be not be vegan and that the other food/drink items there would not be something you would allow. So, I am wondering why you went?

I don't mean to sound harsh. I am just thinking about it from the eyes of a six year old that was taken to a birthday party yet not allowed to have any of the party stuff. Sounds very mean to me. And no matter what your convictions are, your child does not understand them at 6.


exactly.

and really, life is so short. a few sips of soda and few bite of cake would have made the party so much more enjoyable for her and meant so much to her. I am mostly vegan (mostly as in I would never turn down birthday cake offered to me at a birthday party) and do not drink pop but I also do not go nuts controlling what my kids eat. I try to extol the virtues of my excellent choices (







) and encourage them to make good choices too but i know the truth of the matter is that as soon as my back is turned they will run after whatever I do not allow them to have. Also I think if they own their own choices it will go so much further. And the last thing I need is for them to be mad at me for not letting them have treats every now and then. for them it is more than food. it is fitting in and having fun and being normal. I am not going to keep that from them all to save a few drops of HFCS from their lips.

If you really really can't let your child particiapate in a mainstream birthday party do them a favor (and the hostess - because I know you say you are not judging and that you were being discreet but reading your post I felt judged ) and just tell them no they can't go. You assume people drink pop and eat cake because they don't know any better and when they know better they will do better. I know allabout how bad that stuff is for me I srill indulge in a yummy pile of junk every now and then. if 1% of my food is gross yummy junk I will still be 99% healthy. good enough for me.


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## Surfer Rosa (Jun 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KweenKrunch* 

How do you other natural living mamas deal with the times when your children feel "left out" of the things mainstreamed kids are "getting" to do?

Thanks for reading and for your input...

I always make sure I bring something that is a special treat (in DDs eyes) so that she gets something special too. We're vegetarian and E can't have dairy, so she often can't have what's on offer. In addition, I'm also pretty picky about what she's allowed to eat/drink (nothing processed, no soda, etc.). DD is only 4, but this has worked so far.

I don't mind her having sugar, per se, (ie homemade treats, natural ice cream); I have a problem with chemical crap/additives/preservatives in store-bought stuff. I am working on finding a middle ground between what I'd *like* her to eat, and letting her have treats. She seems to understand the difference between "once in a while" foods and "every day" foods, so I guess I'm doing okay...


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## lonegirl (Oct 31, 2008)

Perhaps next time when the situation arises bring your own special drink and vegan cake. OR let the mom know ahead of time. I myself not being vegan and would likely fall into your mainstream parents category (Tyr watches cartoon, plays video games, eats the occasional McDonald's burger, has the very occasional sip of GingerAle, Shop at supermarkets-as well as Organic Grocers, I am for vaccs, etc).... That being said if I invited someone to my child's party who had special dietary needs I would try and accomodate them if I knew in advance, or would ask the mom to bring a special treat for the child that could be brought for them when the cake came out.


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## mom2reenie (Nov 14, 2006)

I don't think it's wrong to bring your own food, I think it's wrong to not mention it to the hostess (sorry if it didn't come off that way--I got distracted mid post and didn't reread it until just now). I know of parties where the hostess wasn't aware of food restrictions, the guest's mom brought their child some snack that she felt was more appropriate and then all the other kids got upset because they also wanted some of that snack, but the mom only brought enough for her kid. IMO that caused more hassle that coule have easily been prevented if the mom would have talked to the hostess first.
I understand food restrictions and food beliefs. I've never met a mom whose child had allergies, who had a kosher house (not sure if that's the proper term), or who had other food beliefs that did not mention it to the host first and who did not have the host be willing to accomade the guest.
So, I think it would be rude to just show up with different food, I don't think it would be rude to talk to the hostess beforehand and mention the food restrictions and if the hostess doesn't mention being willing to accomdate the guest, for the guest to say "so, would it be okay if I brought such and such for everyone, so that my child can also enjoy a snack?"

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChetMC* 
In addition to the soda thing, the OP also mentioned that they were vegan. I am not at all offended when a vegetarian or vegan brings their own food to supplement the party offering for their child without talking to me first.


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## notneb (Aug 31, 2006)

I'm another one who believes in all things in moderation. As long as there are no allergies, a sip or a taste of sugary food on occasion is just not a big deal to me - not worth hurting the feelings of someone who has been gracious enough to prepare food for us, and not worth placing a barrier between my children and their peers. Presumably, you are feeding her wholesome, healthy foods 99% of the time. I'd just let the 1% go.


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## Mama Mko (Jul 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KweenKrunch* 
As for the soda, I have to admit I'm a bit surprised so many said they'd have caved in for that. It gives me a lot to think about. I've done a bit of research and apparently Hansens makes an organic soda from cane sugar, not HFCS. I could definitely pray about buying some of those to bring with us when we go somewhere sweet drinks might be served.

There are several companies that make soda with cane sugar.







Root beer is especially good.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I don't generally let my dd have anything with HFCS, but I don't think having half a cup of soda two or three times a year is going to hurt her. And, again, her feelings are more important than that small amount of HFCS.


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## Jackpackbaby (Oct 9, 2006)

Hmm. Your question is a tough one. I am not mainstream by any means. We home school, don't vax, don't circ, we co-sleep, extended breastfed, eat garden grown and farm raised food, cloth diapered, don't watch TV, don't do well-visits and home birthed (whew) so hopefully I qualify to answer your question lol. I would have let her have the soda. We don't drink soda at all either but when we are around other people who do partake of that (and worse) we allow the kids their small indulgence. We went to a friend's 6 year-old DS's birthday the other day and not only did my DS (almost 6) have cake made from a mix he also had Doritos (GAG), although he did opt for lemonade instead of soda - it was minute maid lemonade (blech) and a lollipop! I was perfectly scandalized lol, but what on earth is the point of going to a party and not allowing a bit of freedom. I can absolutely understand your view on the cake since it was not made to vegan standards (and BTW a bit off track here, I would have made a vegan cake if I had known vegans were coming to my party) but I think you could have been bit more lenient about the soda. We have friends that get Virgil's Root beer which has no artificial anything, uses raw sugar and is the tastiest soda I've ever had and I don't even like soda lol. Maybe next time you can bring something special for her to drink or eat but if not, I would definitely be a bit more flexible.


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## MLA (May 22, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rebeccajo* 
There are several companies that make soda with cane sugar.







Root beer is especially good.

Yup. Whole Foods has a whole line of sodas made w/cane sugar. The Black Cherry flavor's very good!


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## moaningminny (Dec 31, 2007)

Our girls are 2 and 4 and they've never tried pop, at least as far as I'm aware. I always take a sport bottle full of water for them wherever we go, so if we did go to a party that only had pop I would allow them to try it if they were interested, but I would be surprised if they even liked it and would have their water for them as a backup.

They know what it is - DH and I have a can of Diet Coke every day. They've never asked to try it and we've never offered - as far as they're concerned it's a "mummy and daddy drink".

They will eventually have it, but as a treat - not as an everyday thing. That'll probably mean DH and I will have to curb our intake of it, but that's ok!

OP, I totally understand your anti-pop stance. I do, however, think that if you're that strict with it and knew beforehand that it was going to be there that you could have made the decision to not go. I'm really don't believe that a few sips for special occasions will ruin a child. I'm a big believer in learning to eat responsibly.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChetMC* 
In addition to the soda thing, the OP also mentioned that they were vegan. I am not at all offended when a vegetarian or vegan brings their own food to supplement the party offering for their child without talking to me first.

I've never had a vegetarian or vegan attend one of my children's parties, but I agree totally. It would absolutely not be a problem for them to bring their own food. About the only things I usually put out that a vegan could eat are the veggie tray and the potato chips.


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## Beene (May 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KweenKrunch* 
As for the soda, I have to admit I'm a bit surprised so many said they'd have caved in for that. It gives me a lot to think about. I've done a bit of research and apparently Hansens makes an organic soda from cane sugar, not HFCS. I could definitely pray about buying some of those to bring with us when we go somewhere sweet drinks might be served.

I don't drink soda and no one in my family does, but when an occasion arises, I've opted for good ole BlueSky:
http://drinkbluesky.com/


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

Quote:

You may not allow it in your house or let your children generally have it, but why bother going to a party where the child will feel very left out and isolated because every other child gets to have cake, icecream, and soda?
I agree with this. I remember a family we knew when we were kids who were on the extreme end of natural living, and it was so difficult for their kids to participate in any activity related to food because they were not allowed to have anything. In our childish foolishness, we classmates actually thought baking a cake for their farewell party when they left would be a good idea. Poor kids. They couldn't eat a bite of it and we felt *so* stupid and bad about it.

I do think though, that if you're going to hold fast on the rule that it would be wise to bring food/drink your daughter can have, especially something that is a treat to her.

In our family, we don't buy soda and don't drink it at all regularly. I can just feel my teeth rotting away when I drink it.







: However, although it is not a habit in our family, just like dessert, or candy, or TV watching are not habits in oru family, we make exceptions on special occasions. I don't know how my younger ones will do, but my oldest has a very healthy attitude about food, and is not obsessed with snacking or sugar or soda even though he's tasted those things multiple times in his little life.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KweenKrunch* 
And I do want to clarify that I do not judge mainstreamers! I know everyone is doing the best they can with the information they have

Excuse me??? So us "mainstreamers" are making decisions "based on the information we have"? Thus implying that with more information we would make a different decision. Um... No. I would guess that I have roughly the same information/knowledge that you have. But I also have different priorities and have made different decisions. This isn't because of lack of knowledge or resources. Its because of placing different priorities on different aspects of these decisions.


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## QueenOfTheMeadow (Mar 25, 2005)

Closed for moderator review.


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