# Creepy neighbor - WWYD?



## MittensKittens (Oct 26, 2008)

Perhaps this is not the right place for this thread, please move if need be.

I would appreciate some thoughts on this.... I am not sure whether I am overreacting or not. I have this neighbor who has given me the creeps ever since I moved here. To illustrate (and hoping not to sound prejudiced!), this is a person in his fiftees, unemployed and living alone, with a very poor standard of hygiene. He seems to be overly interested in my two year old daughter. When I first moved here, I would meet him on the way to the store (walking), carrying DD on my shoulders and he would say "she's to heavy for you; I will carry her". "No thanks, I'm fine" didn't seem to be something he understand, and he tries again each time








. He tries to stroke her hair and "shake hands with her", and I told him multiple times that this was not something I want happening. Also, he offered to babysit her more than once. He has not shown any interest in DS at all.

Now I met him in the hallway (apartment block) again, and he said to DD: "Give me you hand". I told her "No, sweety, we don't give people we don't know a hand". His reaction was that he was no stranger but a neighbor and that it is not healthy for me to stop my DD from shaking hands with someone who likes her, and she likes him (!?). It was OK for me to teach my kids not to hang out with strangers, but doing it at such an early age would just make them scared of everyone. After telling my neighbor that I can decide how to do my own parenting, thank you very much, and do not touch DD again, he went down the stairs.

I am pretty sure that the same thing will happen again when I see him next. I would like to tell him I am going to call the police if he tries that again. Generally I have no problem in people trying to be sociable, but this person just sends out all the wrong signals, and all my alarm bells are ringing. There are other kids around here, some of which go and play outside on their own from a young age at a nearby park (where I have also seen the neighbor hanging around, incidentally). Thanks for getting to the end of my post


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## tree-hugger (Jul 18, 2007)

that guy sounds 110% creepy--I would trust your instincts and keep your guard up.

I do NOT think that you are overreacting at all.

you are doing the right thing by making it clear to dd that she should not touch him

I absolutely would not let him hold her--abusers can fondle a kid while holding her in front of the parents and the parents might never know what was going on

you should read Protecting the Gift--the creepy guy you describe is showing many of the classic signs of pre-incident indicators that are described in this book
1. the guy not taking no for an answer--this is the single most significant signal of malicious intent and is a very common precursor to an incident. It sounds like that guy is really refusing to take no for an answer.
2. typecasting (labeling you in a slightly critical way)--i.e. that comment critical of you for for not letting him shake hands with dd
3. offering help that you did not request--i.e. offer to babysit and offer to carry dd--this is not to say that everybody who offers to help is sinister, but when you do not know their intent you should be cautious

Protecting The Gift by Gavin DeBecker has really good advice for how to keep your kids safe.

I suggest that you make it very clear to this guy that you do not want him having any contact with you or your kids and that you are not a woman to be crossed. Turn into a mama bear if you need to. It is perfectly fine to be rude, if that's what it takes to keep your kids safe. Look him in the eye in a way that your body language communicates very clearly "Do not mess with me and I mean what I say." Tell him that NO means NO. If he asks again to help you tell him that you did not request his help and that you do not want his help now or in the future. If he tries to touch you or your kids tell him that he may NOT touch you and that if he does touch you or your kids against your wishes you will call the police and charge him with assault.

Most predators are looking for an easy target. Your goal should be to make it very clear to him that you are anything but an easy target.

Most of all, trust your mama gut. A person's intuition about a person having sinister intent is very, very commonly correct. There are many subconscious signals that you are picking up from this guy and that your brain is processing to tell you that he is creepy. You have nothing to lose by making it very clear to this guy that he is not welcome, and you have everything to gain.


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## prothyraia (Feb 12, 2007)

Not overreacting at all, there's a bunch of definite red flags there.

I would stay as far away from him as I could, make sure my children (and anyone who might care for them) know to stay away, and if he still persists in trying to get close I would make it crystal clear that if he ever tries to touch my daughter again I will call the police. And follow through on that.


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## mzfern (Nov 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tree-hugger* 
that guy sounds 110% creepy--I would trust your instincts and keep your guard up.

I do NOT think that you are overreacting at all.

you are doing the right thing by making it clear to dd that she should not touch him

I absolutely would not let him hold her--abusers can fondle a kid while holding her in front of the parents and the parents might never know what was going on

you should read Protecting the Gift--the creepy guy you describe is showing many of the classic signs of pre-incident indicators that are described in this book
1. the guy not taking no for an answer--this is the single most significant signal of malicious intent and is a very common precursor to an incident. It sounds like that guy is really refusing to take no for an answer.
2. typecasting (labeling you in a slightly critical way)--i.e. that comment critical of you for for not letting him shake hands with dd
3. offering help that you did not request--i.e. offer to babysit and offer to carry dd--this is not to say that everybody who offers to help is sinister, but when you do not know their intent you should be cautious

Protecting The Gift by Gavin DeBecker has really good advice for how to keep your kids safe.

I suggest that you make it very clear to this guy that you do not want him having any contact with you or your kids and that you are not a woman to be crossed. Turn into a mama bear if you need to. It is perfectly fine to be rude, if that's what it takes to keep your kids safe. Look him in the eye in a way that your body language communicates very clearly "Do not mess with me and I mean what I say." Tell him that NO means NO. If he asks again to help you tell him that you did not request his help and that you do not want his help now or in the future. If he tries to touch you or your kids tell him that he may NOT touch you and that if he does touch you or your kids against your wishes you will call the police and charge him with assault.

Most predators are looking for an easy target. Your goal should be to make it very clear to him that you are anything but an easy target.

Most of all, trust your mama gut. A person's intuition about a person having sinister intent is very, very commonly correct. There are many subconscious signals that you are picking up from this guy and that your brain is processing to tell you that he is creepy. You have nothing to lose by making it very clear to this guy that he is not welcome, and you have everything to gain.

I completely agree with this post. Your post gave me the shivers. Keep your baby safe


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## Norasmomma (Feb 26, 2008)

Trust your instincts-this person sounds like he has malicious intent and is not ok. As the pp stated he is not taking "no" for an answer-I would seriously be considering calling the police. Do you know his name? Is there anyway you can do a background check on him? I'm not trying to sound paranoid, but I have had to deal with 2 men in my life that were exactly as you described, they would not take no for an answer and they did in fact scare me.

One of the men ended up being the former HS counselor in the town where I live-he had been fired for inappropriate behavior with a female student-I found this out from a friend, he also had harassed another young woman at a party and was kicked out and beaten up by some of my friends because he did something else inappropriate. He would stare at me and freak me out-my DH and I were out one night and he was there, when we left he followed me to the car and was banging on the window. My DH came up behind him grabbed him and told him if he EVER talked to me again he would F***ing kill him. He never bothered me again.

I would be taking his actions as threatening.


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## Mama2Rio (Oct 25, 2008)

go with your gut! instincts are there for a reason. is there any way you can run a background check on him? it might give you some kind of reasurance (good or abd). i might try to explain to dc that you want them to stay away from him and that he should be considered a stranger.


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## jjawm (Jun 17, 2007)

Creepy! I'd say something like "Look, I want to make this perfectly clear - you need to stop harassing us, or I will call the police. Don't talk to us anymore." and I'd also just call the police to see what they think - say this guy is harassing you and your young daughter and you're worried.

You don't owe him an explanation or any politeness. And definately tell your kids to stay away from him.


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## veganone (May 10, 2007)

I agree that you should trust your gut and keep your children far away from him. I would also look up your address on Megan's Law if you can. He may be a registered sex offender. You never know.

Even if he's not, plenty of predators have just not been caught yet.

You don't owe him anything, including politeness. Be rude if you need to. His feelings are completely irrelevant to your children's safety.


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## La Sombra (Sep 27, 2007)

Ooh, mamma, your post gave me the willies, too. What a great mom you are for standing up for your babe and listening to your instincts. Keep listening to them; they will protect you (and your babies)! I have heard the Gavin deBecker book mentioned here a lot but I've never read it. I did read, many years ago, his first book, The Gift of Fear. In it, he talks about how many people, most especially women, ignore their instincts because they are afraid of seeming rude (or even, as you said in your post, like you are stereotyping). But our instincts don't lie. If this man was really a good man, and nothing to be afraid of, he'd respect your rejection of his offers for help. STAY AWAY FROM HIM AND BE CAREFUL!


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## CAKJNH (Dec 16, 2008)

i apologize if this sounds a bit pushy or forward but I have seen first hand what can happen to women and children who don't want to hurt someone's feelings by telling them NO! I have lived it.









Get some pepper spray to carry with you, if you can. Then call the police and report the behavior & tell them you want an officer to come to your apartment ( it's easier to get them to REALLY listen to you ). Explain that this man seems overly interested in your daughter and not your son, and don't forget to add the fact that he hangs around the park as well. Tell them you have tried to talk to this man and he refuses to stay away from you & your family.

The reports can help if he is a registered sex offender already (which he may in fact be) or can at least put this guy on police radar. Tell them you feel threatened and they will have to tell him to stay away from you.

I hate to add this too, but I would look into moving. No one can make him move, but for the sake of your children, it may be the best thing you can do. I know it sounds extreme, but if anything should happen - it wouldn't then.









Don't be afraid to protect your family anyway that you can!









Another note: this is the perfect time to teach DC about stranger safety (even nice ones!), how to use your phone AND cell phone to call 911 and where to turn if they feel threatened. Maybe you can talk to other neighbors as well. Make sure your children know to stay FAR FAR away from this man, not to take anything from him, etc. Mean people wear nice people masks is what I told DD1.

(long story short: we had a problem with my sister's ex and his family/friends. I got DD1 (age 7) her own prepaid cell phone. Even if there's no time on it, she can call 911. She also knows how to call 911 from all the phones in the house as well as myself, DH and other family members)


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## Cherry Alive (Mar 11, 2007)

It sounds like this guy is a psycho. He will keep coming after you and your daughter.

Please don't be afraid to be NASTY. The fact this man keeps grabbing at your kid is a really bad sign. It's only going to get worse if you let it. Who knows what he could do the next time? Maybe he'd actually grab her from your arms.

Don't be afraid to be an angry mamma bear to him. If he comes near you or her and pulls that crap again, scream at him and tell him to get lost.

As others suggested, call the police too. This man is harassing you. It may help, too, to contact your rental office and complain very loudly. If you have a boyfriend or husband who can do with you, that's even better. If you have neighbors with kids, find out if he's been doing the same to them and get them to complain, too. It's possible they will evict him. At the very least he is on their radar.

I had a creepy neighbor like who lived above us. I didn't have kids at the time, but he came after me. He kept harassing me and demanding I give him car rides. I found out from a female neighbor who lived across from us that one day he knocked on her door and forced himself into her apartment. He left, but she was pretty shaken up afterwards.

One day after he was particularly pushy with me, I called my boyfriend (now husband). He went to the rental office and complained very loudly (and I believe he even threatened to sue).

In less than a week later, we hear noise upstairs. The creepy neighbor bangs on our door. My husband asks through the door what he wants.

The neighbors asks if he can live with us. It turns out he got evicted.

We said, "NO" of course and didn't see him ever again.


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MittensKittens* 
Perhaps this is not the right place for this thread, please move if need be.

I would appreciate some thoughts on this.... I am not sure whether I am overreacting or not. I have this neighbor who has given me the creeps ever since I moved here. To illustrate (and hoping not to sound prejudiced!), this is a person in his fiftees, unemployed and living alone, with a very poor standard of hygiene. He seems to be overly interested in my two year old daughter. When I first moved here, I would meet him on the way to the store (walking), carrying DD on my shoulders and he would say "she's to heavy for you; I will carry her". "No thanks, I'm fine" didn't seem to be something he understand, and he tries again each time







. He tries to stroke her hair and "shake hands with her", and I told him multiple times that this was not something I want happening. Also, he offered to babysit her more than once. He has not shown any interest in DS at all.

Now I met him in the hallway (apartment block) again, and he said to DD: "Give me you hand". I told her "No, sweety, we don't give people we don't know a hand". His reaction was that he was no stranger but a neighbor and that it is not healthy for me to stop my DD from shaking hands with someone who likes her, and she likes him (!?). It was OK for me to teach my kids not to hang out with strangers, but doing it at such an early age would just make them scared of everyone. After telling my neighbor that I can decide how to do my own parenting, thank you very much, and do not touch DD again, he went down the stairs.

I am pretty sure that the same thing will happen again when I see him next. I would like to tell him I am going to call the police if he tries that again. Generally I have no problem in people trying to be sociable, but this person just sends out all the wrong signals, and all my alarm bells are ringing. There are other kids around here, some of which go and play outside on their own from a young age at a nearby park (where I have also seen the neighbor hanging around, incidentally). Thanks for getting to the end of my post









Your hackles are up for a reason. Worst case scenario you continue giving the cold shoulder to an innocent man with bad manners. Not your problem. I'd also suggest documenting time/date/incident w/him since you keep running into him. Also a patient visit to your local PD could yield some results regarding his record or SO history (if there is any).

Good luck mama...what a creepy creepy situation!


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## marrymeflyfree (Jan 5, 2008)

To echo the others: trust your gut. Whether he happens to be truly innocent of intent or not is no reason to second guess yourself. You don't have to 'play nice' if you don't want to, and you don't have to explain yourself to him. Sounds like you already know that, but it's good to hear sometimes too.









Do you know any other families in the apartment complex? I wonder what interactions he has had with others and what their opinions are of him.


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## Norasmomma (Feb 26, 2008)

I also was going to suggest possibly moving-I know it may seem extreme, but the way this guy is acting I'd be very cautious. I cannot say enough that you should call the police and tell them your accounts with him and that he seems interested in your young DD, and is constantly harassing you. I also second the pepper spray recommendation.

Like I said I have had experience with a psycho stalker and it was very unsettling. I also suffered from an abusive relationship when I was a teen and I was threatened numerous times, so I am definitely jumpy when it comes to situations threatening myself or my family.

He may be harmless, but he very well could be a predator.


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Yep yep to everything said, especially the recommendation for reading Protecting the Gift. You have these instincts for a reason; keep trusting them and keep protecting your daughter!


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## Treasuremapper (Jul 4, 2004)

Did you already check the database for registered sex offenders?


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tree-hugger* 
you should read Protecting the Gift--the creepy guy you describe is showing many of the classic signs of pre-incident indicators that are described in this book
*1. the guy not taking no for an answer--this is the single most significant signal of malicious intent and is a very common precursor to an incident. It sounds like that guy is really refusing to take no for an answer.
2. typecasting (labeling you in a slightly critical way)--i.e. that comment critical of you for for not letting him shake hands with dd
3. offering help that you did not request--i.e. offer to babysit and offer to carry dd--this is not to say that everybody who offers to help is sinister, but when you do not know their intent you should be cautious
*
Protecting The Gift by Gavin DeBecker has really good advice for how to keep your kids safe.

Yes, indeed.

The next time tell him "No, I do not want you touching my daughter. I did not ask for your help." If he says anything other than "OK." You follow it up with "I will call the police if you bother me again." (And then do so!)


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## MittensKittens (Oct 26, 2008)

Thank you so much for all your thoughts. It was really helpful to read that nobody thinks I am overreacting. I don't make a habit of ignoring my instincts, but know that I can be sensitive at times. I know that this is really bad, but part of my weariness is also in the fact that my neighbors probably think I am a weirdo any way (I do AP, UC and other things people find "shocking" in this very conservative area) so I didn't want to add to that further. I know that I should not be concerned about that obviously, though.

I will actually go to the police station to have a chat about him, get some advice and see what info I can get about him. That way, if I need to call them later on they will already have a record of it, and probably take it more seriously. I already do carry pepper spray with me, but I am aware that that is probably not going to protect from sexual predators, because what they would do would not be a "spur of the moment" type thing. The other factor I didn't mention in my opening post is that I am a single mom (by choice) and that probably makes me and my family a "more suitable target" for people who do have bad intentions, and a personal like my neighbor might think that there is nothing to stop him. Thanks for the book recommendation as well, I will see if I can get hold of that book. Suggestions to think about moving go a bit too far for me at the moment, mostly because I have a great apartment for a great price







but if things get out of hand or if I found out that this person *is* in fact a registered sex offender, I would definitely consider that.

I do know some other families with small kids here, and perhaps I should warn them about this neighbor and see what their experiences with him are.


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## amlikam (Nov 19, 2008)

Definately share this kind of news.... Noticed an red truck that would always drive by and slow down in front of our house... (across the street was the bus stop).... it was always around the same time of day- afternoon around the bus time.... sometime a couple times a day

I made it a point to ask my neighbors about it- because I didn't want to get something wrong (ie its grandpa picking nick up for me)... but also so they would know. most of them where like, I don't know who he is....

So one day I waited for this guy to come by and started to cross the street so he slowed down for me. I told him if I ever saw his truck again I would call the cops on him and I had a detailed log of the times he was in the neighborhood in addtion to his lic plate #. and asked if I made my clear.

Funny- I haven't seen him in the neighborhood for a while now...

sometimes you don't know who bad people are- other times it screams right at you.....


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## MittensKittens (Oct 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amlikam* 
Definately share this kind of news.... Noticed an red truck that would always drive by and slow down in front of our house... (across the street was the bus stop).... it was always around the same time of day- afternoon around the bus time.... sometime a couple times a day

I made it a point to ask my neighbors about it- because I didn't want to get something wrong (ie its grandpa picking nick up for me)... but also so they would know. most of them where like, I don't know who he is....

So one day I waited for this guy to come by and started to cross the street so he slowed down for me. I told him if I ever saw his truck again I would call the cops on him and I had a detailed log of the times he was in the neighborhood in addtion to his lic plate #. and asked if I made my clear.

Funny- I haven't seen him in the neighborhood for a while now...

sometimes you don't know who bad people are- other times it screams right at you.....

Since he has not shown up again, you were obviously right that something was wrong wit this guy... Good for you for telling him not to come back!


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## mamarootoo (Sep 16, 2008)

just chiming in to agree w/ all the PP.

i think there's a reason so many mama's responded to this post. i felt the creepy crawlies too, and felt the need to circle the wagons.

don't feel bad-- do what you need to and keep your baby safe.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

We're reading Protecting the Gift in the Book Clubs forum. See my sig for the link.


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## homewithtwinsmama (Jan 5, 2005)

I guess I will disagree in one small way. I would call the police NOW and not wait for another incident. He has ignored your requests repeatedly already AND you have seen him playground lurking. Put him on their radar now.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Yes I think your instincts are right, and I will also suggest Protecting the Gift as a good book for you to read. Scary! And I agree that you should NOT be polite. No is a complete sentence. If you say no, don't keep discussing it. Just go, and don't worry about what he thinks.


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## *~Danielle~* (Mar 27, 2005)

I would agree with everyone else. You need to look him in the eye and tell him, not ask him, to not speak to your daughter. Do not apologize, just be frank.

I am on the camp that you should look for another apartment complex when your lease is up. The fact that he is offering to babysit, when he is a single man that hardly knows you...just plain wrong. He is a freak. Hugs. You are not wrong.


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## Girl In The Fire (Apr 6, 2005)

I just skimmed the thread so someone may have already said this... If this man lives in your apartment building I would complain to the management ASAP I would also call the police and ask if he is a sex offender or if other people have had the same concerns.. The guy sounds a lot like a creepy man that lives in our neighborhood that I make it a point to stay far far away from.


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## mom2tristan04 (Mar 1, 2006)

Oh, yuck. Red flags started going up left and right for me as I read this. There is definitely something not right there. I'm so happy you're listening to your gut feeling about him.


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## Virginia Mom (Feb 17, 2006)

Also check with the police about "stalking" charges if nothing else.........and don't forget to remind babysitters and anyone else who watches your babies while you are away.........

And just because he might not show up on any sex offender registry, doesn't mean he isn't one that just didn't get caught........

worse case scenario ..could you get something like an order of protection?

If this guy is a perv, and he knows you are alone, have some plans in place in case he makes an unwelcomed visit.....

also ask the apt manager to install a keyless deadbolt on your door as added security if you don't already have one (locks from the inside and can't be opened from teh outside --no keyhole)...or look into an alarm

and is there a husband, or brother you can borrow from a friend perhaps......let this guy think you have a big burly something staying with you? sometimes just idea of a guy is enough to send a perv running.....

(I had taken my two kids to a local moon bounce place..... a teen worker, I think it was the son of one of the owners, was way too touchy feely with the kids......he was stopping all the kids before they went into the inflatable toy and asking for hugs.......I was watching from the water fountain....he gets to this one girl and she was a bit freaked out.....I ran up to her and told her that you don't have to give hugs to anyone you don't know......and told the guy that he was out line........when I complained to teh owners, they didnt care at all.........hubby said that this guy probably was taking liberties with the kids bc there were only moms around....but had he seen a dad, he woudln't have been so 'touchy feely'.......hope that makes sense.....

NO MATTER WHAT GO WITH YOUR GUT........IF THIS GUY GIVES YOU THE WILLIES, THERE IS A REASON.........MOST PERVS LOOK LIKE GRANDMA OR GRANDPA......


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## luv-my-boys (Dec 8, 2008)

You mentioned you lived in an apt? Have you brought this up to the property management? You shouldnt feel harassed or unsafe in your apt. Not sure what they can do but perhaps if others have complained as well they might evict him or not renew his lease. second I would contact the police and ask for a point of contact in case this weirdo tries talking to you again you have someone who already knows what is going on. There are lots of offenders who are not registered, at least putting this guy on the police's radar is better than nothing. heck they may even know who your talking about. If this creep tries to contact you again tell him NO and that your calling the police for harassment, heck file a restraining order if need be. I do not believe your over reacting. We are all given something called *intuition* and yours is sending out all sorts of red flags on this weirdo. Also because you know that he is paying attention to your child talk to her and your DS about this guy. The whole stranger danger and instruct them if he was ever to come up to you to immediately start screaming and yelling/kicking and biting if need be.


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## PlayaMama (Apr 1, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DianeAK* 
Ooh, mamma, your post gave me the willies, too. What a great mom you are for standing up for your babe and listening to your instincts. Keep listening to them; they will protect you (and your babies)! I have heard the Gavin deBecker book mentioned here a lot but I've never read it. I did read, many years ago, his first book, The Gift of Fear. In it, he talks about how many people, most especially women, ignore their instincts because they are afraid of seeming rude (or even, as you said in your post, like you are stereotyping). But our instincts don't lie. If this man was really a good man, and nothing to be afraid of, he'd respect your rejection of his offers for help. STAY AWAY FROM HIM AND BE CAREFUL!









i totally agree with all of this! SUPER CREEPY!!


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