# If you want healthy kids throw out your TV.



## Momtezuma Tuatara (Mar 3, 2004)

I mean it.

It's the most insidious lying brain-washing tool they can possibly have access to.

Either that, or put some gadget on that eliminates all ads, and only pre-records programmes you want, which they watch at another time.

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...X.2006.02180.x


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## aira (Jun 16, 2004)

That's why we do only dvds or dwnloads, and edit out all commercials!









The ads are truely horrific.

I just saw a news piece about a local 2.5 y/o boy who was released from the hospital today 3 weeks after sustaining injuries from his dad running him over in the driveway. He had serious torso damage, and lost at least a kidney.

The parents said he's getting candy and chuck-e-cheese for being so "good".

<<shudder>>

That'll heal him up fast...


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momtezuma Tuatara*
Either that, or put some gadget on that eliminates all ads, and only pre-records programmes you want, which they watch at another time.

That's what we have- we only see commercials when watching in a waiting room. The problem is that they STILL spend too much time watching TV- but I can erase all their programs if I feel they've been abusing the priveledge.


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## Threefold (Nov 27, 2001)

Well, yes.
I teach in a public school part time and I swear the kids brains have been permanently altered by tv, vaxes, and processed foods.
Our school has us sign a "media agreement" that kids will not watch tv, have computer time, or play video games on school days.
Now, dh and I just need to sign that agreement wrt computer time ourselves


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## MyLittleWonders (Feb 16, 2004)

This is why we only watch dvd's or pbs (there are "commercials" on it, but nothing compared to network tv). I can't even stand that PBS takes funding from both McDonald's and Kellogg's - but maybe because my boys are young or maybe because they'd much rather eat a piece of fruit, it doesn't seem to affect them. I've seen way too many children that it does though.


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## Kama82 (Mar 12, 2006)

Commercials really give me the creeps especially ones targetted at kids. We always edit out commercials I plan to never let her watch TV that has commercials in it.


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## mammom (Aug 13, 2004)

TIVO. We can record the shows ds watches and there is a way to skip quickly through any ads. Although none of *his* programs have ads. Plus, like most mamas here I'm sure, we try to limit tv time anyway. One good channel though if you need to get something done is called Sprout - it's a PBS channel and they limit their ads too. All PBS shows all the time.

But, MT, you are right. We haven't watched ads ourselves much since we got tivo, but on the occasion that I do see them, I'm shocked by many of them.


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## MyLittleWonders (Feb 16, 2004)

During the Olympics, ds#1 (4.5 yo) got almost addicted to the commercials. They didn't make him want to get anything or ask to buy something new, but rather he was obsessed with trying to figure out what they were trying to sell him and why. He and I (and dh too) would sit and talk about each one and what they wanted you to believe and what they wanted you to do. He loved getting down to the nitty-gritty of it. One thing I continually stressed with him was especially the drug commercials. We are pretty herbal and homeopathic in our approach to healing (we threw out all OTC med's except my heartburn stuff for the pregnancy), and so he doesn't even really get yet that people believe there's a pill for everything. He just was like, why? The only network TV he sees now is when we are watching an Angels or Dodger's game, or when we watch Deal or No Deal







together. And he still loves to try to figure out the angle behind the commercials.







So, in that respect, I think it's important to teach them that there are people out there trying to sell them everything and trying to convince them that what they are selling will somehow, magically, improve their lives. But like I said, otherwise, we limit their TV to PBS and dvds, especially if one of us isn't in the room with them all the time while viewing.


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## Deborah (Dec 6, 2002)

Well, not watching advertising is a good beginning, but don't forget the product placements. Movies are full of them. Have fun watching for the brand name shots. They are all paid for.

As a librarian, I've been freaked out by the growing brand name presence in novels, particularly the light-weight silly novels. People don't eat "donuts" they eat a particular brand of donut, they don't wear perfume, they wear a particular brand of perfume, the brand of car is always mentioned.

Nowadays we are what we buy.

I don't think the novelists are being paid (yet) for the placements, but it is an indication of a society that is totally suckered by consumerism.

Just for contrast, try reading a great novel from the past. Dickens or George Eliot or Dostoevsky or Hawthorne. Any brand names? How is character revealed without brand name mentions? I guess that is why they were great novelists...

Deborah


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momtezuma Tuatara*
It's the most insidious lying brain-washing tool they can possibly have access to.


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## eloquence (Apr 25, 2006)

True, Deborah.

We have one TV and it is in storage with the exeption when we all want to watch a VHS together which is about once every ten days or so. We pull it out of the shed and put it back when we are done.


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## marilynmama (Oct 20, 2003)

That is why I thank god for the DVR!


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momtezuma Tuatara*
I mean it.

It's the most insidious lying brain-washing tool they can possibly have access to.

Either that, or put some gadget on that eliminates all ads, and only pre-records programmes you want, which they watch at another time.

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...X.2006.02180.x

You know, now that I think of it, since we got TIVO (about 2.5 years ago) I have not heard the endless, I want that, I want that, CAN I GET THAT, MOM I NEED THAT!!!!!!!

I missed it so much I just realized it was gone.


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## mykdsmomy (Oct 10, 2004)

My dd11 said she wanted to kill herself the other day (because of the pressures of school) A good friend of mine told me to get rid of my tv and I kind of thought







....now I think there might be something to it.....







:


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Some of the shows aimed at that age group are horrible!!! Just look at DEgrassi. I admit, I have never actually watched it, but just from the commercials I would never want my daughter to watch that show.

The only things she likes to watch these days, besides Danny Phantom, is the X Files and CSI. Oh my DD is 12.


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## LongIsland (Jan 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT*
Some of the shows aimed at that age group are horrible!!! Just look at DEgrassi. I admit, I have never actually watched it, but just from the commercials I would never want my daughter to watch that show.











I don't know if we saw the same commercial, but every scene shown in the commercial included violence.


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## VelmaLou (Jan 8, 2006)

TV-free here!

We went through a TV stage when we first came here. Dh decided dd needed French cartoons (he thought it was a channel that was "cleverly done."). All I got from dd all day long was "What can I dooo mama???" That was code for "Can't I watch another hour of television?" Thank gawd the pirated satellite card expired on us and that channel stopped working. She hasn't asked that gawdawful question even ONE time since then!









One month of television was like he** for me!


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## momma2girls (May 6, 2005)

I would love to get rid of my TV however I would also have to throw out my husband also. Which might not be a bad idea! I get so frustrated at how much TV my kids watch and thats with me restricting them during the week while they are with me but on the weekends when they are at nana's and daddy has them while I am at work they can watch as much as they want. And then of course I am mean b/c it has to stay off during the week. I loved it when my dd and I were living alone b/c there was no TV in the house I wish I could go back to that.


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## Gitti (Dec 20, 2003)

Dh and I had a small black and white when we got married. That went on the blink and although we often talked about getting another one, we didn't. We needed a piano first, then we needed furniture...and so on, until one year Christmas when the kids were 10, 12, 13, and we bought a color TV.

Soon I saw them watching it more and more so we made an agreement, each got to pick one half hour show a week and all three could either watch it or not. Total TV "on" time a week 1 1/2 hours. That was it, until they all went to college.


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## kewb (May 13, 2005)

Maybe it is because I work in advertising that I don't see commercials and tv as the root of all the I wants.

Since my children were little we have discussed commercials, what they are for, how they make the products look better then they are, why people fall for it, and so on.

I have never experienced the endless I wants from commercials because my children know it is not going to happen. If they express an interest in a product we do the research together on if the product is worth the money they are charging and if it really does what it claims to do. The final test-are they willing to spend their own dollars on it if mom says no.


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## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

We have a TV, but no television service. DS only gets to watch movies we select for him. No news and no commercials in our house!


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## Ex Libris (Jan 31, 2004)

Dh and I like watching movies, but we never turn on the TV until ds goes to bed. Ds only gets to watch the occasionally video.

I have to agree with kewb. The fact is that our ds lives in a society that is driven by mass media and consumerism. That doesn't mean he has to conform to that way of thinking, but it does mean he needs to understand it and live within it (until he's old enough to choose to live elsewhere, if he wants). Even if we never let him watch these commercials at home, he'll still see them elsewhere--such as when we visit the mainstream relatives. And then the ads and products will seem all the more alluring.

However, if dh and I sit down with him, as kewb has done, we have an wonderful teaching opportunity, including learning the psychology behind advertisements, research methodologies (like looking up the product information as kewb mentioned), and how to make good choices, even when they run counter to established views and perceived desires.

Our ds is only two, so he's still too young for all of this. But once he's old enough to notice these things, we'll begin talking about them. We still won't let him watch much TV, because I do think it rots your brain, but the occasional show can be both entertaining and educational.

Kelly


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## illinoismommy (Apr 14, 2006)

I agree







TV is a bad thing.... we limit our exposure tons!

Am I the only one wondering why this is in vaccinations though?


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *illinoismommy*
I agree







TV is a bad thing.... we limit our exposure tons!

Am I the only one wondering why this is in vaccinations though?









Because it is about keeping your kids healthy and their immune systems working properly. If they are sitting there watching TV all day long they aren't out getting the exercise needed to keep their immune systems in top working order.

There is also the fact that the commericals make your children want unhealthy things to eat which also hinder their immune systems.


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## illinoismommy (Apr 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT*
Because it is about keeping your kids healthy and their immune systems working properly. If they are sitting there watching TV all day long they aren't out getting the exercise needed to keep their immune systems in top working order.

There is also the fact that the commericals make your children want unhealthy things to eat which also hinder their immune systems.









Ahh yes, thanks for answering.

Getting exercise is also good for preventing childhood obesity which is good for their health also.


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## 2Sweeties1Angel (Jan 30, 2006)

Quote:

Some of the shows aimed at that age group are horrible!!! Just look at DEgrassi. I admit, I have never actually watched it, but just from the commercials I would never want my daughter to watch that show.
(standing up) Hi, my name is 2Sweeties and I am a Degrassi addict.

Seriously, it's embarrassing. I watch several of the shows on the N but I especially like Degrassi. I'm 25 years old for crying out loud! I can't figure out WHY I like these shows but I do. My kids think it's stupid and leave the room to play when it's on. It's not quite like the commercials make it out to be. They have commercials like that to draw in viewers. The show focuses on a few different groups of Canadian high school students and occasionally their families. They cover a lot of topics not typically shown on teen television, such as homosexuality, religion, drug use, teen sex, teen pregnancy, STDs, eating disorders, mental illness, etc. It's a actually a pretty good show to watch with your teens (I don't have teens but my aunt watches it with her 15 year-old and her 13 year-old) because it brings up topics for family discussion that you might not otherwise think of but that are relevant in your child's life.

We didn't have any sort of programming from about 2 years ago until last winter so all we had to watch was movies and TV shows on DVD. DH kept whining about it, so now we have DirecTv with DVR. I love the DVR because I can edit out those annoying commercials and watch my Degrassi whenever I want







DS (5) taught himself how to work the DVR and records Jimmy Neutron, Fairly Oddparents, and Spongebob to watch when he's finished playing outside.


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## Niamh (Jan 17, 2005)

We don't watch TV from March-October because we live in the country and are just too dang busy. We don't come in the house until it gets dark. When it gets dark early, my DH starts begging to get cable. It was so bad last year that the couch actually had his butt mark in it and he was getting ultra-cranky with DD-and this is a guy who's normally father of the year.

I'm not looking forward to the fall.


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## sunnybear (Nov 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT*
Because it is about keeping your kids healthy and their immune systems working properly. If they are sitting there watching TV all day long they aren't out getting the exercise needed to keep their immune systems in top working order.

There is also the fact that the commericals make your children want unhealthy things to eat which also hinder their immune systems.









Plus all the commercials talking about how "amazing" the latest prescription drug is...I hate those. Most of the time the side-effects are worse then the condition they're supposed to treat.


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## illinoismommy (Apr 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pariah*
Plus all the commercials talking about how "amazing" the latest prescription drug is...I hate those. Most of the time the side-effects are worse then the condition they're supposed to treat.

No kidding! And even more.... it seems like a lot of them a few years later turn out to be dangerous.







:


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## nonconformnmom (May 24, 2005)

I don't post in this forum much (still researching/ investigating the no-vax thing and so far am leaning toward selective vaxing), but this thread caught my eye.

We use our DVR to fast forward through commercials the rare times my dd watches tv. Usually we get books on dvd from the library.







Anyway, I read recently in my local newspaper that someone has invented a device that prevents people from fast forwarding through commercials on TiVO and that the plan is to install those on all tv's and then the cable co's and satellite co's can charge EXTRA for a service that circumvents those devices and allows you to fast-forward through commercials.







: Gah!

But, yes, I agree. I got my Master's degree in marketing and I learned firsthand how marketers are specifically designing commercials to encourage children to nag their parents to buy the things they see on tv. Grrrrrr! It happens to be a very effective marketing tactic.


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## chersolly (Aug 29, 2004)

Tivo/DVR service! That way, you can watch programs you enjoy, on your time, when the little ones are asleep and FF through the commercials (except for the commercial that goes _"Although a rare occurrence, men who experience an erection for more than 4 hours..."_).


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## cumulus (Jul 17, 2002)

Beyond the effects of commercialism, TV has other profoundly negative effects no matter what's on. In Bowling Alone, a Harvard sociologist's book on the loss of community in America, television was found to be a major factor in separating familes from those around them. A while ago at least families would watch together - now the tendency is that it even separates family members from each other (everybody with their own TV).

"And as parents and the home lose some of their hold on the imagination, senses and emotions, children naturally turn elsewhere for spiritual and psychic sustenance. The find it in the media and its indomitable infantry, the peer group." ~ Kay S Hymowitz, Ready or Not


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momtezuma Tuatara*
I mean it.

It's the most insidious lying brain-washing tool they can possibly have access to.

Either that, or put some gadget on that eliminates all ads, and only pre-records programmes you want, which they watch at another time.

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...X.2006.02180.x

Ok, I am going to be a dissenting vote.







Not sure how this is in the vaccine forum. But, how about we discuss the marketing process and help our children to be savvy shoppers instead of damning the evil commercialism? Empower, rather than restrict? I don't like the government choosing what to do with my health care, I don't believe that making the "health" choices for children promotes growth of knowledge and self-care either......

Pat, pro-tv-choice.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
I don't believe that making the "health" choices for children promotes growth of knowledge and self-care either......


As parents it is our job to make the health choices for our children. If I let my children make all their own choices my daughter would still be wearing her cast 3 years later because she didn't want them to use the saw to take it off. (Even got woosy and and almost passed out when it was taken off.) The doctor and nurses did everything possible to alleviate her fears, I even told her it doesn't hurt it only tickles (Yes from experience) but she was still afraid of the thing.

So if we allow children to make their own choices to we allow them to linger in a filthy rotting cast long after it should have come off because they are afraid?


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## 2Sweeties1Angel (Jan 30, 2006)

*So if we allow children to make their own choices to we allow them to linger in a filthy rotting cast long after it should have come off because they are afraid?*

That's quite a bit different than allowing them to make their own TV viewing decisions.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2Sweeties1Angel*
That's quite a bit different than allowing them to make their own TV viewing decisions.

But that is not what was said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scubamama
I don't believe that making the "health" choices for children promotes growth of knowledge and self-care either......


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT*
But that is not what was said.

I do believe that there are mutually agreeable ways to provide for our children's health care needs while still honoring their body integrity. I don't see any benefit in second guessing your experience and don't desire to place you on the defensive about it. We have had serious health issues that we have handled in a consensual manner, sometimes with delays, further explanations, repeated attempts, changed providers, alternative care environments, creative problem solving. In life threatening situations, I agree, that there is the possibility of feeling a need to override a child's reluctance. However, my intention with quoting "health" choices was to indicate the definition of "health" was being used quite broadly in this thread.

Your situation is more complicated, I agree. But, I do not believe that a child would want to keep a cast for three years.









Pat


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## Ayala Eilon (Apr 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eloquence*
True, Deborah.

We have one TV and it is in storage with the exeption when we all want to watch a VHS together which is about once every ten days or so. We pull it out of the shed and put it back when we are done.

US too. But it comes out only every a couple of months for something of real quality. It is not only the ads that ruin the brains. Much of the actual movies and program are 1) infested with hiddne ads. 2) deprives the child from imagining the story in her head 3) shortens span of attentiong (I read about that in Natural Parenting from AU and Life Learning from Canada. Articles by Dr. Naomi Aldort.) 4) interferes with brain waves development 5) takes children away from creating, sensing, inventing and relating 6) put a whole lot of useless ideas, sexism, bad guys and good gues and all other nonesense in their little innocent heads.


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## aira (Jun 16, 2004)

Well, I kinda thought of the OP as an issue of television programming, and not necessarily movies and the like.

We just don't buy TV. Just isn't in the house. We don't feel OK to pay a company to pipe ads into our home. We don't want them. So DS isn't really being denied something that we make available to us. But I don't really limit his screen time, except to suggest other fun activities when he's just bored. He usually gets his fill of DVDs pretty quickly.

But IME there are plenty of opportunities to guide, discuss, empower, and foster awareness about responsible consumerism without having TV programming in the living room. In fact I think there is no shortage of it. So it would never occur to me to get TV in the house for that purpose if I otherwise wouldn't have it.

Just like I don't have meat, sugar, or dairy in the house... I make that decision for all of us, and I see TV in a similar way. If DS wanted a treat while we're shopping in the NFS I'd buy it for him, but I don't see him having a TV "impuse purchase".









JM.02


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## tippytoes26 (Mar 19, 2002)

I haven't read all the responses, but I thought I'd share

My 4 year old doesn't usually care too much about commercialized products, but she does have a weakness for disney's princess line of goods. So far,she's asked for the cereal,the fruit chews, and some snack cake thingies. Just recently the bakery at our grocery store started selling sugar cookies in the shape of a princess head (yum right?) topped with tons of colored sugar and the package is disney princess packaging. So, I answered her the same way as always "nah..we don't want those. If they have to put a picture of a princess on there to sell it to you, that means it doesn't taste very good or be very good for your body" To which she always agrees and puts it back(her dad let her get the breakfast cereal with thre princesses on the box..it was SO gross and sat in our cabinet for an entire month before I tossed a box that was 3/4 full)

what is funny is that there happened to be another little girl asking her mother for the same cookies. When she heard my response, she had to laugh and they too put their cookies back on the shelf.

So that's our mantra "If they have to put {insert character} on the box to get you to buy it, it must not taste very good or be very good for your body"


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

: My dh has almost completed his evil plan to have a TV in every room of the house.


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## Zamber (May 4, 2005)

This thread reminded me of the most scariest commercial I had the misfortune to see recently. It shows an elderly man getting an old fashion shave at a barber shop. As the barber is shaving the man, three nurses in bleach white uniforms sneak up behind them, one of them holding a pair of large percussion cymbols. The nurse goes to crash the cymbols as the blade is being used on his throat. Then, just before the cymbols crash, they pause the scene and say "We are tired of asking nicely. Give blood." I think they went on to describe the need for donated blood, etc., but I was too shocked for it to register in my brain. The commercial ends with the same nurses proudly walking down the street.







Yeah, I sure want to run to the nearest blood bank now....


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Zamber*
This thread reminded me of the most scariest commercial I had the misfortune to see recently. It shows an elderly man getting an old fashion shave at a barber shop. As the barber is shaving the man, three nurses in bleach white uniforms sneak up behind them, one of them holding a pair of large percussion cymbols. The nurse goes to crash the cymbols as the blade is being used on his throat. Then, just before the cymbols crash, they pause the scene and say "We are tired of asking nicely. Give blood." I think they went on to describe the need for donated blood, etc., but I was too shocked for it to register in my brain. The commercial ends with the same nurses proudly walking down the street.







Yeah, I sure want to run to the nearest blood bank now....

Ugg!! What a horrible commercial. "We are tired of asking nicely?" Last I checked it was not a requirement for people to give blood. It is even against some peoples religion. I don't give blood because I don't like needles but a commercial like that would just make me run the other way!!!


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## kewb (May 13, 2005)

That commercial sounds very disturbing. I am very glad I have not seen it.


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## TigerTail (Dec 22, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deborah*

Just for contrast, try reading a great novel from the past. Dickens or George Eliot or Dostoevsky or Hawthorne. Any brand names? How is character revealed without brand name mentions? I guess that is why they were great novelists...

Deborah

well, in my regencies, they walk on aubusson carpets, go to gunther's for ices, and get their waistcoats made by weston, but that's not quite what you meant, was it?


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## hellyaellen (Nov 8, 2005)

i'm usually sort of afraid to post in this forum because i'm still doing muy vaccine research but since tv is something i've had a bit of scholling on...and i have strong opinions about it...

i've seen lots of good points brought out.

Quote:

Well, not watching advertising is a good beginning, but don't forget the product placements. Movies are full of them. Have fun watching for the brand name shots. They are all paid for.

As a librarian, I've been freaked out by the growing brand name presence in novels, particularly the light-weight silly novels. People don't eat "donuts" they eat a particular brand of donut, they don't wear perfume, they wear a particular brand of perfume, the brand of car is always mentioned.

Nowadays we are what we buy.

I don't think the novelists are being paid (yet) for the placements, but it is an indication of a society that is totally suckered by consumerism.
originally posted by deborah

i did my senior seminor research project on product place ment so i'm constanttly interuppting our viewing to announce "Product Placement!"

i know what you mean about the literary tjing too. I've got a book by miriam keyes and its actually set in the world of book publishing and there a snippet in there about paying authors to place products... (and a few products weree placed in this particular book, a toyota mr2 is one i specifically remember)

Quote:

Since my children were little we have discussed commercials, what they are for, how they make the products look better then they are, why people fall for it, and so on.
originally posted by kewb

every ad you see with your kids is an opportubity to talk about marketing and consumerism. even with very young children you can point out that what they just saw was a paid commercial designed to make them beleive thus and such about a product or brand. you can talk about celebrity (cartoon or character ) endorsements.

i like the idea of researching the "i want thats"!









Quote:

Plus all the commercials talking about how "amazing" the latest prescription drug is...I hate those. Most of the time the side-effects are worse then the condition they're supposed to treat.
oroginally posted by pariah















those are my dd's favorite commercials and always have been. first it was "the purple pill-nexium", then she was into "gotta go gotta go gotta go right now-detrol la" and now she likes lunesta and their butterfly.

anyone evr read Four Arguments For The Elimination of Television?

i've got a few others on my bookshelf but i can't remember the titles.


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## muse (Apr 17, 2002)

nak

interesting topic

I just had an interesting discussion about this with a neighbour of mine who's a child pscyhologist involved with this group.Looks like interesting stuff they're doing.


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

I think this started in the vaccine forum so certain people wouldn't see it







Really, I'm glad it's where it belongs.

I can't think of the last time my daughter saw something on TV and expressed an interest in buying it - and she watches, on average, at least a couple of hours of TV a day... and has for at least 12 years now. She's the least consumerist kid I've met, doesn't follow the current styles or brand trends, doesn't trust the mainstream news or mainstream advertising, and has at least 12 hours of awake time a day to fill with all of her other interests (if she's not doing them simultaneously with tv watching). She's very healthy and always has been, and she's always had free access to TV.

When she was little, she sometimes wanted things she saw on TV, but we talked about advertsing and advertising techniques and had some experiences with buying things that weren't as cool as they'd seemed on tv... and that experience has helped her beome a teenager who doesn't do or buy things just because someone says they're "hip", and doesn't follow the crowd but instead makes her own decisions. Her exposure to the media enabled her to develop resistence to these things.

I don't think the issue is TV at all, but parenting. TV is a great tool, but a lousy parent, and parking your alone kid in front of the tube isn't doing your job as a parent.

There are also so many things my daughter has gained from TV. She's watching SNL right now - marvelous satire - and the same is true of South Park and The Simpsons. The clever society commentary and cultural references in the shows have shaped the way she thinks, and helped give complexity to her thoughts and humor. At other times in her life, other shows have exposed her to other things, more than I could ever give her live in a lifetime.

For more, read Everything Bad is Good for You...

dar


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## iamama (Jul 14, 2003)

We stopped watching TV 2 weeks ago and it has been the best thing for my dd! She has been so imaginative and creative! But we still have the tv. But if you are thinking of going tv less it is not as hard as it may seem.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

I let comercials run the worst thing I did was to FF through them. We don't watch must TV here we rent two films from the liabary ussually scolastic books on film sometimes a disney and that lasts us two weeks. DD likes Dora and Diego but we pretty much only watch it is its a new epsoide, DH ans I hav one or two shws we like but I think we all average maybe an hour a week for DD and 2-3 for DH and I. But I noticed that even in the limited amount if I FF through comercials DD got impatient and hyper. We actually found it was better for US to 1) limit exposure 2) make her wait for specific dates and times DVR was horrible here for here but nice for DH and I and eliminate TV watching for sake of watching.
Honestly yes TV is fluff but fine there are just fluffy things we do, I don't applogize for using TV for occasional entertainment value we do lots of other things. We once went 6 months with no TV when we first moved here we learned lots of alternitve things that was cool we also learned we want the TV







cabin fever set in enough that I will proudly say yes we own a TV what of it.

Deanna


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## AutumnMama (Jan 2, 2004)

We try to limit TV, but even with the little that does get watched there are still waaaay too many commercials







:

When I started noticing that DD was being influenced by them ("Mommy, I want THAAAT!"), we had a little chat about commercials just being things to make people buy their stuff and give them their money.
So now, whenever commercials come on she'll get really annoyed and tell the TV "We don't need your stuff! Mommy, tell them we don't want that!!"









Ideally though, I'd LOVE to get rid of the darn thing...DH is a techie though, so I can't get away with it (his idea of a nice home is totally different than mine--TVs in every room, etc ).


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

No thanks. My family really enjoys watching TV. We even like some commercials. Sometimes we like what they have to offer us and we are interested, and sometimed (more often than not) we think the commercials or the product is stupid. We do enjoy laughing at the lame acting in many of them. I don't feel that we've been brainwashed at all by television.


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

Unfortunately it gets so hot in the desert in the summers that we depend a lot on TV to get us through. During the morning I can turn on the water outside and they have fun but by 9AM it's too hot. Even their wading pool is like 115! We get really tired in the afternoons and I have been in the habit the last couple of years to use that as siesta time. Turn on a movie and we lie around and relax. It's just too darned hot to venture out because you still have to get back into a really, really, really hot car. It's like an oven. Literally.

But during the spring/fall I agree, it's great to turn off the TV and let the kids play and have fun! We homeschool year round. Dd is allowed to watch one show on PBS before "school" and one show afterwards, for a total of 1 hour of TV a day. Sometimes we do movies in the late afternoon while I cook dinner.

My dd has learned a lot by PBS/Discovery shows. We don't watch too much of the junk. Well, I do sometimes but that's when they are napping. Dd does like to watch supernanny with me because she likes to see the kids acting up. lol!


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dar*
I think this started in the vaccine forum so certain people wouldn't see it







Really, I'm glad it's where it belongs.

I can't think of the last time my daughter saw something on TV and expressed an interest in buying it - and she watches, on average, at least a couple of hours of TV a day... and has for at least 12 years now. She's the least consumerist kid I've met, doesn't follow the current styles or brand trends, doesn't trust the mainstream news or mainstream advertising, and has at least 12 hours of awake time a day to fill with all of her other interests (if she's not doing them simultaneously with tv watching). She's very healthy and always has been, and she's always had free access to TV.

When she was little, she sometimes wanted things she saw on TV, but we talked about advertsing and advertising techniques and had some experiences with buying things that weren't as cool as they'd seemed on tv... and that experience has helped her beome a teenager who doesn't do or buy things just because someone says they're "hip", and doesn't follow the crowd but instead makes her own decisions. Her exposure to the media enabled her to develop resistence to these things.

I don't think the issue is TV at all, but parenting. TV is a great tool, but a lousy parent, and parking your alone kid in front of the tube isn't doing your job as a parent.

There are also so many things my daughter has gained from TV. She's watching SNL right now - marvelous satire - and the same is true of South Park and The Simpsons. The clever society commentary and cultural references in the shows have shaped the way she thinks, and helped give complexity to her thoughts and humor. At other times in her life, other shows have exposed her to other things, more than I could ever give her live in a lifetime.

For more, read Everything Bad is Good for You...

dar


Another amazingly sensible post by Dar!







With whom I have almost nothing in common as I am a non-radical public schooling rule based (though GD) mama.

But my three dd's who only have "natural limits" (they are busy with school, friends, dance classes) on TV watching, have no "consumer-itis". Like Dar, I can't even remember the last time they asked for anything that was on TV...

Last night we sat and watched the news stories about the upcoming immigration day and talked about the issue at length. And then they watched "Deal or no Deal" which is kind of innane, and which I can't even watch, but when I came into the room they and my DH were involved with a complicated discussion of statisical probabitity, complete with equations scrawled on the back of an American Girl magazine, all brought on by the premise of this show!


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## Brigianna (Mar 13, 2006)

I agree with those who have said that the problem is not TV or commercials, but lack of parental guidance. My kids (ages 6 and 3) don't have any rules about TV (or much of anything else), either in terms of amount or content. They do not spend all day in front of the TV and they do not whine for things from commercials. I do try to redirect them from the worst commercialism, but not to the point of forbidding them from watching it. Now I might reconsider if there were some problem, or if they were watching a lot of stuff contrary to our values, but it has never been a problem, so I don't "address" it.

We do talk about commercials and consumerism and how companies want us to buy their products so they can get our money, and we talk about how commercials don't always tell the whole truth about a product. I also explain about how some of the products are made in other places by people who are very sad that they have to work in factories all day instead of being with their families.

It is true that we are affected by commercials--the advertising industry is very good at making ads that stick in our minds--but we are only influenced as much as we choose to allow ourselves to be influenced.

I think a lot of it has to do with modeling--dh and I have never watched much TV, so it's never been a "normal" thing for them. I think the best thing we've done for them in terms of protecting them from consumerism has been keeping them out of school.

Then again, I am the crazy radical mama who lets her kids eat whatever they want whenever they want and sleep whenever they want and who doesn't make them go to school or do chores, so take that as you will.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_dalai_mama*
Well, yes.
I teach in a public school part time and I swear the kids brains have been permanently altered by tv, vaxes, and processed foods.
Our school has us sign a "media agreement" that kids will not watch tv, have computer time, or play video games on school days.
Now, dh and I just need to sign that agreement wrt computer time ourselves









Do you mean that you as teachers are not allowed to use TV, computers, or video games in the classroom, or that you actually ask parents to restrict these things at home? Because I would be seriously irritated if a school, especially a public school, tried to tell me what I could allow for my own children in my own home.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brigianna*
Because I would be seriously irritated if a school, especially a public school, tried to tell me what I could allow for my own children in my own home.









: No freaking way would that happen.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:

Unfortunately it gets so hot in the desert in the summers that we depend a lot on TV to get us through. During the morning I can turn on the water outside and they have fun but by 9AM it's too hot. Even their wading pool is like 115!
Yup thats us add to that appartment living and thus no yard ect to play in and sorry their are just times when were are VERY thankfull for the TV even if its just a 15-30 mintue break.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brigianna
Because I would be seriously irritated if a school, especially a public school, tried to tell me what I could allow for my own children in my own home.
Ditto and I find the no computer time strange when it seems so many assignments kids are getting around here dirrectly involve the use of a computer.

Deanna


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## onlyzombiecat (Aug 15, 2004)

I don't think TV is super evil or super great. Sometimes it can be useful and entertaining and sometimes not. It depends on how it is used.
I've noticed that my dd has been paying a bit more attention to TV commercials lately. She doesn't say she wants stuff but she'll ask me questions about what she sees.


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## KayasMama04 (Feb 4, 2006)

I find nothing wrong with the tv if its limited. We only have educational commericals here (we live on a military base overseas) but not the point. DD watches what ive approved on dvd and sometimes our best times are when we are lounging on the sofa she is so cuddly when we are watching rachel ray lol


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## boomingranny (Dec 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dar*
I don't think the issue is TV at all, but parenting. TV is a great tool, but a lousy parent, and parking your alone kid in front of the tube isn't doing your job as a parent.

There are also so many things my daughter has gained from TV. She's watching SNL right now - marvelous satire - and the same is true of South Park and The Simpsons. The clever society commentary and cultural references in the shows have shaped the way she thinks, and helped give complexity to her thoughts and humor. At other times in her life, other shows have exposed her to other things, more than I could ever give her live in a lifetime.

For more, read Everything Bad is Good for You...

dar

I agree. My dd is watching That's Entertainment now. We don't watch a lot of commercial TV, but we do watch American Idol and we've watched the Olympics. When a commercial comes on we play a game - what are they trying to make you buy? How does the commercial do that? I talk to her about marketing and consumerism (which is prevalent everywhere, even in the diaper forums and in Mothering magazine).

Cheers


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_dalai_mama*
Well, yes.
I teach in a public school part time and I swear the kids brains have been permanently altered by tv, vaxes, and processed foods.
Our school has us sign a "media agreement" that kids will not watch tv, have computer time, or play video games on school days.
Now, dh and I just need to sign that agreement wrt computer time ourselves









Where do you live? Such an agreement would violate the Constitution in the U.S., if this is a true public school and not a public charter or magnet school where the kids have a choice about attendance at that particular school.


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## dlcmama (Apr 9, 2006)

I seen the title of this and just had to respond. I haven't read any of the other responses but i just wanted to to add my 2 cents on this one. I'm prob alone on this (as i haven't read the other posts) But i think Tv is and can be a GREAT THING!!!! They have educational things out there that will catch the child's eye far more then talking about that education thing. My son who is 7 years old, who has been watching tv since infancy is the VERY smart. He attends a Private Catholic School and is currently in the first grade. When he was at the end of his k- year they tested his standards and knowledge and he tested at a very HIGH 2nd grade level. He is in accelerated Math and Reading and gets A+'s in those. We have the option to skip a grade (or 2) but that's against my better judgement. Anyways it always bugs me when they say TV can make kids overweight and not as smart because my son has been proven the opposite.

I think it's only commen sense that you kid will be overweight while watching tv all day with a bag of ding dongs on his lap and your child won't be as smart if the child sets there in front of the tv all day watching sponge bob. Doesn't take a genius to figure that one out. That's why i always laugh at the statistics. Both of my kids love tv.. Granted i don't let them set there all day watching what they want. My son would much rather watch the discovery channel or the history channel because that's what he enjoys but i say it can infact be a very good thing and i'm 100% not against it!!

okay now i can go and read the rest of the posts..lol..
sorry so long. hugs, Deana


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## dlcmama (Apr 9, 2006)

When there is a commericals on that's when my kids get up and do whatever, they NEVER just set there and watch the commericals. Maybe they will when they get older but for now that's "free time" from what they were watching.


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## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

I'm finally breaking the TV addiction (I truely believe it is an addiction) I'm doing so well that a couple weeks ago there was a pretty bad storm and it knocked our satalite dish off it's holder, it took me 3 days to realize it...I just never turned it on, finally I wanted to listen to the music station and it wouldn't come in. I went outside and sure enough, it was hanging off the back side of our house.









TV can be a great thing, I don't let James watch TV at all though. I don't see how a 1 year old could possibly need to watch TV. I know lots of people say "Well Sesame Street taught my daughter her colors." thats great, but I'd rather be the one to teach my son his colors. I'd rather be the one to teach him his letters and numbers, not say "Big Bird taught my son everything he knows!" Just my $0.02


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## knittingmomma (Jun 5, 2004)

In my opinion, TV is never the BEST option - but.... it is an option.

We don't have cable, but our children do watch movies - this way they avoid media (for the most part - although it does sneak in even on the movies) and they are limited to what and when they can watch.

Could they be doing something better with their time? Yes, but a movie a couple times a week(often national geographic or magic school bus), probably won't hurt them either and does give my husband and I a breather.

Warm wishes,
Tonya


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Yet another agreement with those who say lack of parental guidance is the problem. Funnily enough, the product ds is most interested in is that plug-in scent thing, also the smelly candles. My ds is rarely happy to watch tv alone, so I am invariably watching and talking with him about it. One time, I was in the other room and he came running in saying "mom, they are trying to make me buy something!" when a commercial came on. If I see a toy in a store that I remember him being interested in, based on the commercial, I make a point of pulling it off the shelf to show him. He doesn't usually find the IRL product interesting. I think just not making a fuss about buying brand name clothes goes a long way to avoiding consumerism. So many little kids are wearing t-shirts that say Old Navy or Gap.

I would have a problem with a school pressuring my family to sign an agreement about how we spend our home life.


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## Moochie Mamma (Jan 23, 2006)

We used to have TIVO and had recorded a bunch of Noggin shows for our 5yo. He wanted to watch all the time cause he knew they were recorded and could put them on himself.

We've since gotten rid of it and cable and now only get PBS and NBC (which he doesn't watch anyway). We let him watch his DVD's once in a while but after a week-long "withdrawal" period he rarely even asks to watch! He plays soooo much more, does more art, plays more piano... I think getting rid of both cable and TIVO were the best things we ever did!!

I only watch one show a week (Las Vegas) and after I do I always think what a waste of an hour it was (even though that actor who plays Danny is smokin hot!!).


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## muse (Apr 17, 2002)

As long as a child is exposed to marketing I think of course it's fantastic if we can talk them through the manipulation techniques being used, but (a) a young child is much more vulnerabe to those techniques and much less able to understand the concept of advertising, and (b) over the course of their childhood a child who watches regular TV will be exposed to such a massive onslaught of advertising that it becomes incredibly hard to counteract.

I find it so hard to swallow the concept that TV is educational; however "good" a given show may be. Watching TV is an incredibly passive activity, which does not involve healthy creative exploration, or social interaction. In my view the "educational" tag added to certain shows, characters, products, etc, is yet another marketing ploy, this time geared towards us parents. A child is going to learn colours by exploring the natural world, without the aid of Big Bird or Elmo. Maybe the "educational" factor relieves some of the guilt we feel about using TV when we "need" it.

Here's some interesting stuff from the Campaign for Commercial Free Childhood:

_*Marketing to children is big business*
• From 1992 to 1997 the amount spent marketing to children shot from $6.2
billion to $12 billion. Today marketers spend at least $15 billion a year
targeting children.
• Children aged 4-12 made $30 billion in purchases in 2002, a remarkable
increase from the $6.1 billion they spent in 1989.
• Children aged 12-19 spent $170 billion in 2002, a weekly average of $101 per teen.
• Children under 12 influence $500 billion of purchases per year.

*Marketing exploits children's developmental vulnerabilities*
• Until the age of about 8 children do not understand advertising's persuasive intent.
• Very young children can't distinguish between commercials and program
content; even older children sometimes fail to recognize product placement as advertising.
• Marketers often use older children's desire to fit in with their peers and
tendency to rebel against authority figures as selling points for their products. A recent Pepsi ad celebrated teens who had been arrested for downloading music illegally.

*Children are bombarded with marketing every waking moment*
• Children see about 40,000 advertisements a year on TV alone, a figure that does not include product placement.
• Children see advertisements on the Internet, at the movies, on school buses, in their classrooms and cafeterias.
• Almost every major media program for children has a line of licensed merchandise used to sell fast-food, breakfast cereals, snacks and candy.
• Many toys, such as Coca-Cola Barbie and McDonald's Play-Doh are actually advertisements for junk food.
• In their effort to establish cradle-to-grave brand loyalty, marketers even target babies through licensed toys and accessories featuring media characters.

Very young children can't distinguish between commercials and program content
_


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *muse*
over the course of their childhood a child who watches regular TV will be exposed to such a massive onslaught of advertising that it becomes incredibly hard to counteract.

That hasn't been my experience. I didn't find it particularly difficult to counteract at all - all I did was talk with my kid about what was going on, and shared with her some of my basic cynicism about big business. What's difficult about that?

Quote:

Watching TV is an incredibly passive activity, which does not involve healthy creative exploration, or social interaction.
How can you say this when so many posts in this very thread have demonstrated the opposite? At our house, TV shows have lead to explorations of everything from earthquakes to circus "freaks" to statistics to the AARP... and that's just regular network TV, during the past couple of weeks. And social interaction? Maybe for you TV watching is a passive and solitary activity, but at my house we often watch together, and while doing so we talk to each other (and I talk to the TV) as we criticize, figure out clues, question motivations, and more... and we're usually sewing or knitting or something besides.

Quote:

In my view the "educational" tag added to certain shows, characters, products, etc, is yet another marketing ploy, this time geared towards us parents.
I think much of the TV programming deemed educational is just stupid, myself... but then, I think regular old mainstream TV is pretty educational on its own.

Quote:

• Until the age of about 8 children do not understand advertising's persuasive intent.
That may be true for some kids, but certainly not for mine. By three I know she understood that commercials were different from programming, and their intent was to sell products.

Quote:

• Marketers often use older children's desire to fit in with their peers andtendency to rebel against authority figures as selling points for their products. A recent Pepsi ad celebrated teens who had been arrested for downloading music illegally.
Yup. They do that - on TV, on billboards, in magazines. My child doesn't fall for it - she knows better. Is yours media savvy? Banning TV won't help you get to this point.

dar


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## dlcmama (Apr 9, 2006)

clap clap clap! Beautifully said Dar!


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## dlcmama (Apr 9, 2006)

I have a question and prob will get flammed for it but o'well i don't sugar coat anything. LOL

Ok I'm not the best at wording things but i'll give it a shot

While i know some of you don't like or are against tv and that's fine and all but don't you think that kids need to be exposed to things that aren't right so they can infact disquinish what's right and what's wrong. (does that make sense?)
Aren't you in fear that when they off to college that they will have a culture shock to the world because of the lack of things they've seen or won't maybe not know how to handle certain situations because growing up those situations were avoided.

Please know this isn't personal towards anyone. Just a hypo question and am curious as to what you think.


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## VelmaLou (Jan 8, 2006)

Quote:

Aren't you in fear that when they off to college that they will have a culture shock to the world because of the lack of things they've seen or won't maybe not know how to handle certain situations because growing up those situations were avoided.
Nope. I don't live in fear of anything, actually. Seriously, from experience, most people in this world do not talk much about television. I hope our daughters, like their daddy and me, will prefer to talk about good books, philosophy, films, poetry, spirituality, history, politics, travel, art, the weather, etc.

When we go to parties where there are Americans the conversation inevitably turns to television or football and baseball. Everyone is supposed to know who Monica is. If you don't, you get everyone turning to you to stare at you with incredulous expressions. How incredibly boring!


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *muse*
and (b) over the course of their childhood a child who watches regular TV will be exposed to such a massive onslaught of advertising that it becomes incredibly hard to counteract.

 This is not what we have seen happen in our family at all. It's been very easy to point out (marketing ploys, etc) to my kids.

Quote:

I find it so hard to swallow the concept that TV is educational; however "good" a given show may be. Watching TV is an incredibly passive activity, which does not involve healthy creative exploration, or social interaction.
 I couldn't disagree more with this statement. Who decides how "good" any given show is anyway... other than the viewer? We discuss what we see on TV. We talk about character motives and development, we look for the answers on shows like CSI (and we talk about how it's not an accurate depiction of CSI work lol), something will come up that is a cultural reference (or geographical place or historical event) that my kids have never heard of so we talk about that. We've had many conversations with other people in social settings about what we watched.


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## muse (Apr 17, 2002)

I really don't want to get into judging other people's decisions here; I didn't come into this thread for that, and dar you have leaped to some assmptions about my own family's choices without asking...I never said we were a no-TV family, I talked about the effects of marketing on young children. Why do my children need to be "media savvy"? They are 1 and 4 and are healthy, happy, creative children. They are building their own sense of right and wrong, and of what fulfills them, without the help of media characters. There are far more fruitful and enjoyable ways for me to spend time with them other than sitting analyzing media content.

I think as a community of parents who are questioning the mainstream about most other parenting practices it makes perfect sense to be open to and curious about criticism of mass media. Seems people are very quick to defend a government and corporation endorsed medium which is based in capitalism and materialism.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boongirl*
My dd has learned more about sharing and caring from Sesame Street than from her friends. (she acts like I am nuts when we talk about sharing but when Elmo does is it apparently is ok.







)

I find this really strange and sad. So how did children learn social skills before TV? We need Elmo to tecah them how to share? Huh???

Ok, i have to run to calling babe..i could say more but i don't want to be fighting with anyone, just exchanging thoughts on an interesting and important subject.


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## muse (Apr 17, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boongirl*
There is nothing in life that is all good or all bad. There are a lot of bad information and influences in the world, on tv and off. This is where good parenting is key.


p.s. I'm in complete agreement with you on this!


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## cumulus (Jul 17, 2002)

I believe the American College of Pediatrics recommends that pediatricians ask how many hours of TV each child watches per week as part of their initial examination. I do not think there's a question about whether or not the commercials are muted etc.. It's the hours spent watching that are a concern.
Teaching children to be media smart misses the point for me. One TV critic tells this story about how parents mistakenly monitor TV viewing by their children: A border guard is about to inspect a truck coming into the country when he gets the sense that the driver is smuggling something in. The guard opens the back of the truck and peeks in - nothing. The next time the driver tries to come through the guard performs a more thorough search - nothing. Over the years the guard puts the truck through more and more thorough inspections that come to involve taking the truck apart. On the day the guard is retiring forever, the truck appears and he tells the truck driver he's been sure that the driver has been smuggling something in and if he'd please tell him what it was he promises to never tell anyone. "What have you been smuggling in?" asks the guard. "Trucks," replies the driver.

"Television has changed the American child from an irresistible force to an immovable object." ~ Laurence J. Peter


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *muse*
So how did children learn social skills before TV? We need Elmo to tecah them how to share? Huh???

 I am not sure anyone is saying (or at least I know that I am not saying..) that we must have, _need_, TV for proper social skills. Some of us are saying that we think TV can be a good, educiational, fun, and interesting thing. We are saying that even though it might not be a necessity we choose to have TV in our lives because we think it adds to it in a positive way. My kids did not require Elmo to learn how to share, but if my kid enjoyed a character so be it. And if Elmo taught them things about sharing why would that be bad? (Mine were not Elmo fans when they were little, but liked Barney and the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles instead







)

Basically my point is that TV isn't all bad or all good. It's worth is in the eye of the viewer.









Quote:

Ok, i have to run to calling babe..i could say more but i don't want to be fighting with anyone, just exchanging thoughts on an interesting and important subject.
No fighting here.







And I agree it is an interesting subject.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cumulus*
I believe the American College of Pediatrics recommends that pediatricians ask how many hours of TV each child watches per week as part of their initial examination. I do not think there's a question about whether or not the commercials are muted etc.. It's the hours spent watching that are a concern.


Yes my son's doctor asked that the last time we went in. We said we do not keep track of hours and the content is not screened. He is almost 15 for pete's sake. He attempted a bit of a lecture on that and a few other things. I don't think it's any of their business personally. Just my .02 though.


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *muse*
dar you have leaped to some assmptions about my own family's choices without asking...

I asked if they were media-savvy, and then said that banning TV wouldn't get you to that point. I guess I assumed that they weren't media-savvy, but you stated in this post that they weren't, so...

No one said that kids *must* watch TV. The OP (and I notice that the original poster has been conspicuously absent of late), however, said that tv was "the most insidious lying brain-washing tool they can possibly have access to" and that kids who watched TV weren't healthy. Many of us have first-hand evidence that this statement is false. And I suppose 4 year olds can get by without being media-savvy, but with advertising so pervasive in our society, I wouldn't wait much longer. If you listen to the radio, drive around a city, or buy commercial products, you're being exposed to the media and to advertising. Your children are soaking it all up... they need to understand what it's about, and what its goals are.

I'm not sure how the smuggling trucks story fits here... actually, it's a really old joke and originally the guy was smuggling wheelbarrows, but since immigration is a hot topic now I suppose someone had to change it. As far as TV, though, I don't think we're missing anything...

I would miss TV... not only because of Grissom (and I knew I could count on you to bring up CSI, Unschoolnma!







) but because of all of the worlds it brings to me, the stories and information and music and people. What's wrong with learning from Elmo? I ask myself What Would Fred Do? in certain situations (Fred being Fred Rogers, still my main man) and I think it's lead to my making kinder decisions than I otherwise would have. Sure, maybe reading about Ghandi would have lead me to the same place... but it didn't, and watching Fred did.

dar


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## ericswifey27 (Feb 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AutumnMama*

Ideally though, I'd LOVE to get rid of the darn thing...DH is a techie though, so I can't get away with it (his idea of a nice home is totally different than mine--TVs in every room, etc ).

Me too! But I'll admit I watch way too much TV. It's kind of hard to go cold turkey with DH not on board.

BTW to the poster(s) commenting on the legality/ fairness of a "NO TV" contract from kids' schools, I don't think there's anything wrong with a school sending home a "contract" limiting kids' TV and video use etc. If you don't agree with it, don't sign it. It's not legally binding anyway, or intended to be legally binding; its sole purpose is to get parents thinking about how much TV the family is watching. I think one of the schools I worked at in the past had a similar "contract".


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dar*
The OP (and I notice that the original poster has been conspicuously absent of late), however, said that tv was "the most insidious lying brain-washing tool they can possibly have access to" and that kids who watched TV weren't healthy.

Most likely because this thread was moved to a forum she doesn't visit.


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dar*
That hasn't been my experience. I didn't find it particularly difficult to counteract at all - all I did was talk with my kid about what was going on, and shared with her some of my basic cynicism about big business. What's difficult about that?

How can you say this when so many posts in this very thread have demonstrated the opposite? At our house, TV shows have lead to explorations of everything from earthquakes to circus "freaks" to statistics to the AARP... and that's just regular network TV, during the past couple of weeks. And social interaction? Maybe for you TV watching is a passive and solitary activity, but at my house we often watch together, and while doing so we talk to each other (and I talk to the TV) as we criticize, figure out clues, question motivations, and more... and we're usually sewing or knitting or something besides.

I think much of the TV programming deemed educational is just stupid, myself... but then, I think regular old mainstream TV is pretty educational on its own.

That may be true for some kids, but certainly not for mine. By three I know she understood that commercials were different from programming, and their intent was to sell products.

Yup. They do that - on TV, on billboards, in magazines. My child doesn't fall for it - she knows better. Is yours media savvy? Banning TV won't help you get to this point.

dar

Ok i just as well should admit it right now: I have a total girl crush on DAR!









And no TV in our house in NOT passive. We watch Americal Idol and critique the singers. We dance to the songs. We talk and talk and talk about what we are watching.

And TV commercials have little affect on my kids wants. Those are drawn mostly by the fads they see around the town where I live. And none of these "fads' is advertised on TV (e.g. Webkins, Guitar Pick Necklaces, Peace Love and ... Shirts). Moreover, its usually ME pushing this. "OMG did you see that necklace. Isn't that the cutest thing you ever saw. Do you want one?" And my kids are usually like "Ok if its not too expensive." They are just, through no specific thing that I have done very good and very undemanding about "stuff".

Moreoever, my kids have NO interest in most of the products advertised on TV with the exception of the MR. Clean Magic Eraser which I lUV myself!


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ericswifey27*
BTW to the poster(s) commenting on the legality/ fairness of a "NO TV" contract from kids' schools, I don't think there's anything wrong with a school sending home a "contract" limiting kids' TV and video use etc. If you don't agree with it, don't sign it. It's not legally binding anyway, or intended to be legally binding; its sole purpose is to get parents thinking about how much TV the family is watching. I think one of the schools I worked at in the past had a similar "contract".

But what happens to your child when he returns an unsigned contract to his teacher? The whole class knows and he is aware that the teacher doesn't approve. Not exactly a no pressure situation.


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## *~mommy2matthew~* (Apr 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momtezuma Tuatara*
I mean it.

It's the most insidious lying brain-washing tool they can possibly have access to.

Either that, or put some gadget on that eliminates all ads, and only pre-records programmes you want, which they watch at another time.

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...X.2006.02180.x

agree 309%!!!


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## muse (Apr 17, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dar*
I asked if they were media-savvy, and then said that banning TV wouldn't get you to that point. I guess I assumed that they weren't media-savvy, but you stated in this post that they weren't, so...

Dar, I never directly answered your question, and I also never said I banned TV. Does it really matter to you what the heck I let my kids watch? That really isn't the point of this thread. The OP posted with a link to interesting, factual research. I threw in some statistics on the same subject. Anecdotal evidence based on our kids or our neighbours kids or whoever doesn't stand up against factual, wide ranging research, and I'm afraid the statistics are pretty bleak.


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## Threefold (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *4evermom*
But what happens to your child when he returns an unsigned contract to his teacher? The whole class knows and he is aware that the teacher doesn't approve. Not exactly a no pressure situation.

I haven't been following this thread, but I guess I should have been!








Okay, I'm the poster who signs the "No Media" contract with the school. We are at a Waldorf Preschool and will attend the Waldorf Charter. These are schools of choice, even though the Charter is public. If it doesn't make sense to you, then likely the school's overall charter/philosophy isn't for you and you aren't going to choose it.
TV based play is not allowed at the school. It's a common Waldorf thing, but I won't derail this thread with anymore explainations.









And the contract is part of the enrollment packet, not a single piece of paper handed to the teacher in front of peers.


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## Threefold (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brigianna*
Do you mean that you as teachers are not allowed to use TV, computers, or video games in the classroom, or that you actually ask parents to restrict these things at home? Because I would be seriously irritated if a school, especially a public school, tried to tell me what I could allow for my own children in my own home.

Ahh, finally found it. The contract we sign states that our children will not watch TV or play video games on school days. If it isn't for you, then you don't sign.







I think most parents in our community are on-board and it isn't an issue. The thing that is enforced at school is "No TV based play" b/c this seriously limits the growth of a child's creativity and problem solving ability to simply reinact scenes from the latest episode of whatever. Also, no media characters on clothing.


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## Threefold (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maya44*
Where do you live? Such an agreement would violate the Constitution in the U.S., if this is a true public school and not a public charter or magnet school where the kids have a choice about attendance at that particular school.

Private Preschool, Public Charter.
Not the public school I teach in.
Sorry to have been unclear and ruffled feathers.

I like our contract, it works for us.


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## Threefold (Nov 27, 2001)

double post


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## ericswifey27 (Feb 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *4evermom*
But what happens to your child when he returns an unsigned contract to his teacher? The whole class knows and he is aware that the teacher doesn't approve. Not exactly a no pressure situation.

I would expect if the parent didn't agree with it , it would get tossed in the trash







I suppose you could run into opposition from a teacher







But the school I worked at that had such a "contract" was a public school, and it was just a recommendation. I believe it was something the principal had sent home to the kids in the school newsletter, I don't remember any teacher ever asking a student if he had turned in his contract or not. I think my situation is different from a charter or private type school like Waldorf where tv is more a no no, where a teacher might pressure the family to sign. (Although parents sending their kiddos to that type of school might be doing so because it promotes a tv free environment anyway... )


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

My only point was that if students only have one choice of public school (which is true in a large percentage of this country)requring signing a contract limiting students access to information would violate the child and the family's constitutional rights.

If students have a choice than having different enterance requirements may or may not be ok depending on whether the child could argue that this is the only choice that meets the childs educational needs.


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## mykdsmomy (Oct 10, 2004)

I dont think it's as simple as marketing ploys towards our children and their inability to comprehend that. I dont necessarily worry about my children becoming greedy from watching commercials about cool new Barbies or the newest Aqua-doodle. I worry more about the subtle marketing. Corporations spend TONS of money on making sure they are appealing to children in a very sneaky way.
I also cant stand how most television shows portray people who are materialistic and way too "perfect".
There is entirely too much immorality and violence on tv. I dont want my kids being exposed to this on a daily basis. In my opinion, it conditions them to think that 1. violence is ok, 2. women should be skinny and pretty and 3. do whatever it takes to "fit in". Just my humble opinion


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *muse*
OP posted with a link to interesting, factual research. I threw in some statistics on the same subject. Anecdotal evidence based on our kids or our neighbours kids or whoever doesn't stand up against factual, wide ranging research, and I'm afraid the statistics are pretty bleak.

You made some black-and-white statements that weren't supported by any research, like "over the course of their childhood a child who watches regular TV will be exposed to such a massive onslaught of advertising that it becomes incredibly hard to counteract". Since my child is "a child", anecdotes seemed an effective counter to such an extreme statement. The only research you quoted, by the way, was about how items are marketed to children and how they influence purchasing decisions - there was no research quoted to support the anti-tv sentiments. No one has disputed the fact that advertisers market to children.

The problem with the research I've seen on TV is that it assumes that all TV viewing is similar. It's not. No one has argued that plopping a child in front of a TV set alone for hours a day is a good thing. However, when incorporated into an active parenting lifestyle, I believe that TV has much to offer and few risks. I think the same is true of computers, by the way, and radios, and books...

Oo! And Maya, big smoochies...









dar


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dar*
The problem with the research I've seen on TV is that it assumes that all TV viewing is similar. It's not. No one has argued that plopping a child in front of a TV set alone for hours a day is a good thing. However, *when incorporated into an active parenting lifestyle, I believe that TV has much to offer and few risks. I think the same is true of computers, by the way, and radios, and books...*

 (Bold emphasis mine) This whole paragraph echoes my thoughts perfectly!


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

We don't have cable, DS gets to watch PBS, but now even that channel has commercials


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

Quote:

But what happens to your child when he returns an unsigned contract to his teacher? The whole class knows and he is aware that the teacher doesn't approve. Not exactly a no pressure situation.
My kids' public school sends home a number of pseudo-contracts every year. We are opposed to having children sign phoney-baloney contracts about anything, so we always return them unsigned with a letter explaining why we don't do coercive "contracts." The teachers and the administrators must realize that they are on shakey ground with the contract nonsense, so we've never heard a peep back from them, and the kids have never been singled out. It's become a family joke.

That said, if I deliberately selected a Waldorf type school, I would go along with the program or I wouldn't be there in the first place. (I wouldn't--not our cup of tea.) I still wouldn't have my kids sign "contracts" though.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

I wasn't thinking Waldorf with those contracts. I understand that that is part of the Waldorf philosophy and if you have picked out a Waldorf school, you are theoretically on board with their stance on TV.

A public school should know better. If they are concerned, they can send home articles, but I always hated all that getting parents to sign things to prove they read it stuff when I was growing up. OT but I remember getting a demerit for not having a parental signature on a test graded with an A. Yeah, I was really trying to hide that grade.


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## christymama (Feb 21, 2003)

You cant seriously blame tv commercials for your child's behavior. Your Duty as a Parents is to mold and shape your children into respectable and Productive Adults. If it was me and I was blaming tv for the way my child behaves then I have failed as a parent. Everyone likes to play the Blame game. Tv and Commercials are yes in for the money. But we as parents need to explain to your child that 1 you cant get everything you see on tv and 2 that just that tv is out to make money. What better way to learn these two things then from the mouths of your parents.


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## christymama (Feb 21, 2003)

sorry double post


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## newmommy (Sep 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa*
No thanks. My family really enjoys watching TV. We even like some commercials. Sometimes we like what they have to offer us and we are interested, and sometimed (more often than not) we think the commercials or the product is stupid. We do enjoy laughing at the lame acting in many of them. I don't feel that we've been brainwashed at all by television.

Agreed.


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## newmommy (Sep 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *christymama*
You cant seriously blame tv commercials for your child's behavior. Your Duty as a Parents is to mold and shape your children into respectable and Productive Adults. If it was me and I was blaming tv for the way my child behaves then I have failed as a parent. Everyone likes to play the Blame game. Tv and Commercials are yes in for the money. But we as parents need to explain to your child that 1 you cant get everything you see on tv and 2 that just that tv is out to make money. What better way to learn these two things then from the mouths of your parents.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:

Your Duty as a Parents is to mold and shape your children into respectable and Productive Adults.
***Gotta, disagree with this one. Sorry, I believe my *choice* as a parent is to support and nurture my child's autonomy because it is their own life to choose, not mine to "mold and shape" into some "respectable and productive" person. Who is to define "respectable and productive"? Plenty of people would say that an educated woman isn't being "productive" by choosing Motherhood. I totally disagree with "productive" as the value that defines a life. Nor, do I agree with what society defines as "respectable" parenting...

My children come through me. They are not products of me. Nor are they "mine" to mold and shape into something other than they want to be, imo.

Pat, anti-Product Oriented Parenting

_"We worry about what a child will be tomorrow, yet we forget that the
child is already someone today." - Stacia Tauscher_


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## lisac77 (May 27, 2005)

We also enjoy watching TV at our house, but like many other parents here, I actually enjoy the shows my son watches and I will usually watch with him. We'll sing songs and count, dance around to the music, or just talk about what's going on during the show. We have DVR so commercials aren't an issue.

More often than not, taking the "everything in moderation" route works well for our family.


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## dallaschildren (Jun 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*

_"We worry about what a child will be tomorrow, yet we forget that the
child is already someone today." - Stacia Tauscher_

I absolutely agree with this 100%. *Excellant* quote.

DC


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## Ravin (Mar 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tippytoes26*
So that's our mantra "If they have to put {insert character} on the box to get you to buy it, it must not taste very good or be very good for your body"

Yet last time I was at a regular grocery store, I saw snack packets of fresh baby carrots with SpongeBob Squarepants on the wrapper.


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## trmpetplaya (May 30, 2005)

Hear hear, MT! We have a video monitor (from a commodore 64







) with a VCR and DVD player that lives in our closet. It comes out maybe once or twice a week (sometimes once a month) when we feel like watching a movie or TV show on DVD (my parents like to get us seasons of old shows like Twilight Zone on DVD - we like it too







). I don't mind dd watching a bit of TV at others' houses as long as they mute the commercials. They really bother me too so I prefer to have them muted for my sake as well. Everything that I've ever read about marketing to kids makes me wish that I could raise my kid(s) in a little marketing-free bubble... I figure I can get away with it at least till they're old enough to understand WHAT advertising is and that's what I plan to do. Once they hit an age where they start going to friends' houses to watch TV then I'll explain the concept and why we don't watch ads at our house.

ITA that not all types of TV viewing are bad for children, _in moderation._ Just like *ahem* computer time







I guess I should work on that one myself...

love and peace.


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## Ravin (Mar 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_dalai_mama*
Ahh, finally found it. The contract we sign states that our children will not watch TV or play video games on school days. If it isn't for you, then you don't sign.







I think most parents in our community are on-board and it isn't an issue. The thing that is enforced at school is "No TV based play" b/c this seriously limits the growth of a child's creativity and problem solving ability to simply reinact scenes from the latest episode of whatever. Also, no media characters on clothing.

As a child who did quite a bit of "media based play" pretending to be thundercats and GI Joe's with my friends at recess in elementary school, I've gotta say that I don't get the lack of creativity thing. We NEVER re-enacted stuff we'd seen. It was all improv/making up our own thing. And if you think that' can't be creative, you've never heard of fanfic I'm guessing...

I do understand the Waldorf viewpoint, sorta, but I don't think borrowing from the world around them makes children uncreative, whether it's characters in books or in the movies or on TV. It helps them put themselves in roles they couldn't have come up with on their own. It's a starting point, a creative jumping-off place.

I do think active play is better than sitting in front of the TV all day, and could think of many, many more constructive uses of my time. But the same is probably true of reading Mercedes Lackey novels. But I enjoy them (both TV and fantasy novels), even though I'm perfectly capable of writing my own original stories and living my own original life.

Though when I move next year I'm not taking the TV with me.

And now I'm rambling.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ravin*
I do think active play is better than sitting in front of the TV all day, and could think of many, many more constructive uses of my time. But the same is probably true of reading Mercedes Lackey novels.

















This is a very timely post for me to read. I haven't watched more than two hours of tv in the last eight months, and that was all yoga! But, I've been telling myself lately that I _really_ need to put down the Mage Winds books and do something useful! (This is doubly true, as I didn't even like them as much as some of her other work.)


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## Threefold (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ravin*

I do understand the Waldorf viewpoint, sorta, but I don't think borrowing from the world around them makes children uncreative, whether it's characters in books or in the movies or on TV. It helps them put themselves in roles they couldn't have come up with on their own. It's a starting point, a creative jumping-off place.


I don't want to get into a Waldorf debate on this thread, but if you're really curious, I'm sure you could pose the question in the Waldorf forum.
(I probably won't be part of it as we just found out we have to move and I am sick, so I'm too tapped out







)


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## Canadianmommax3 (Mar 6, 2006)

if there weren't commercials when would i go pee or get a snack?


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ravin*
As a child who did quite a bit of "media based play" pretending to be thundercats and GI Joe's with my friends at recess in elementary school, I've gotta say that I don't get the lack of creativity thing. We NEVER re-enacted stuff we'd seen. It was all improv/making up our own thing. And if you think that' can't be creative, you've never heard of fanfic I'm guessing...











I often help suprevise recess at my very very very mainstream school and I have never ever seen kids "reinact" a scene. They might take an idea and then run with it, but it is as creative as a kid who has read about fairies who use the characters for a jumping off point.


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## newmommy (Sep 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ravin*
Yet last time I was at a regular grocery store, I saw snack packets of fresh baby carrots with SpongeBob Squarepants on the wrapper.

See, I don't see anything wrong with this. If it takes putting SpongeBob Squarepants on the wrapper to get my child to eat fresh healthy carrots, I'd buy 6 packs.


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newmommy*
See, I don't see anything wrong with this. If it takes putting SpongeBob Squarepants on the wrapper to get my child to eat fresh healthy carrots, I'd buy 6 packs.









I think the pp was responding to the person who said to tell your child they put characters on stuff cuz the stuff was not good for your body. In other words the pp was saying, "Don't tell your kids that"


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## monkey's mom (Jul 25, 2003)

I have another take on the "they spend millions of dollars targeting kids--kids don't stand a chance!"

If it were THAT easy to compel someone--through advertising--to go out and buy something, why would they need to spend so much money?

Advertisers spend a lot of money b/c it is really, really hard to compel people (even kids







) to buy their products.

My kid is 4.5, and he's quite media savvy. He gets advertisers and advertisements. He's known the difference betw. the show and the ad since he was two-ish (?).

People comment on how creative and bright and articulate he is all the time. He's had free access to TV his entire life.

And, like other's have said, that's not just plopping him down with a day's worth of food and walking away.







We watch together and discuss and interact.

He just watched Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure the other day. He's been talking about Joan of Ark and making jokes mis-pronouncing "Socrates" since then.

We're keeping our TV--it's been working out pretty well thus far.


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