# Wrong baby circumcised! Yes, it DOES happen...



## pdx.mothernurture (May 27, 2004)

Quote:

Circumcision mix-up

Broadcast News

Friday, November 18, 2005

WINNIPEG -- Officials at St. Boniface Hospital in Winnipeg are trying to figure out how a
circumcision was performed on the wrong baby.
As a results of the mistake, the hospital has suspended circumcisions of male newborns.

Spokeswoman Helene Vrignon says she can't release details.

She says the identities of two baby boys on the same ward were mixed-up.

Vrignon says the family of the boy who was incorrectly circumcised hadn't decided
whether to have the procedure done.

No medical staff have been disciplined so far.
http://www.canada.com/fortstjohn/story.html?
id=603a30c4-71e3-4c06-85a4-558e68492dce















:
















Jen


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## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

Makes me want to homebirth the next one really bad! EEEK!

Wouldn't it be great if hospitals just stopped offering circumcision and parents had to make an appointment for it later on?


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

SCARY STUFF. I hope they sue!

SOOOOOOOOO glad ds never left my sight at the hospital.


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## Super Pickle (Apr 29, 2002)

Yeah,I hope they sue the living daylights out of that hospital and scare them out of resuming circs.


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## broodymama (May 3, 2004)

Yikes! Poor little guy.







I would definitely be calling my lawyer.









Just another reason I want this one born at home.


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## ollineeba (Apr 12, 2005)

unbelievable! wow... I, too, would be calling my lawyer.
I wonder what the parents had to say.
Poor baby


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## My2Matthews (Aug 9, 2004)

Oh, how devastating.
I think I would absolutely die.


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## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

Holy shit.

Well, somebody would die - a professional death, that is, and never practice witch doctor medicine again. I would have their license (and their gonads) for breakfast.









I hope the parents of the boy who was spared the knife don't do it after all.


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## Maple Leaf Mama (Jul 2, 2004)

I was born at that hospital. It's an old hospital, but has a state of the art research facility.

It's a terrible, terrible thing to have a mistake made like that. It sounds like the parents were on the fence, so not utterly against it.
I would feel sick if they were viscerally against it and it was done.
I'm not excusing it by any means, just a bit releived that they were considering it anyway. I wonder if they'll sue?


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## Mariposa (Nov 12, 2002)

that is soo horrible. totally why if this baby is born in the hospital, i am going everywhere with him/her. i am hoping for homebirth so i won't have to deal with this.

we circ at my hospital and the times i have had to assist, there is a whole process for identifying the baby and making sure we have the correct little boy. how sad. i wish we would stop doing circs in our hospital. i am so lucky that peds rarely do them at night and when i see one early AM, i get busy real quick so the charge has to help.


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## pdx.mothernurture (May 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama Nurse*
that is soo horrible. totally why if this baby is born in the hospital, i am going everywhere with him/her. i am hoping for homebirth so i won't have to deal with this.

we circ at my hospital and the times i have had to assist, there is a whole process for identifying the baby and making sure we have the correct little boy. how sad. i wish we would stop doing circs in our hospital. i am so lucky that peds rarely do them at night and when i see one early AM, i get busy real quick so the charge has to help.

You might be interested in this link: http://nurses.cirp.org/

Just like some people won't assist with abortions or other acts they find objectionable on moral or religious grounds, you *can* refuse to participate with circs. I wish I had known about this when I was working in our local birth center and 'had' to assist...

Jen


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## RiverSky (Jun 26, 2005)

For those who end up having their children in a hospital (whether by choice or necessity), simply insist that your infant NEVER EVER leave your side, or if they must go, that your DP is with them...no exceptions. Bring this written down a few times, perhaps in the form of a sign also, and tape it to your baby's bassinet. Both of my children were born in a hospital yet neither ever left my side or that of my DH's (DH slept there with me the entire time I was there).

Personally I was kind of freaked out by the idea of microchips being implanted in my children via needles. (just like they were in my cats!) Hopefully, that is an irrational fear, but I had it nonetheless.


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## hummingbear (Apr 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RiverSky*
Personally I was kind of freaked out by the idea of microchips being implanted in my children via needles. (just like they were in my cats!)

HUH?


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RiverSky*
Personally I was kind of freaked out by the idea of microchips being implanted in my children via needles. (just like they were in my cats!) Hopefully, that is an irrational fear, but I had it nonetheless.









I don't think it's irrational. I think it's totally plausible. And we're probably not the only people on this board who have considered such a possibility.

(Where's the tinfoil hat smilie?)

(Wow, we're wandering reeeally off-topic. Carry on!)


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## johub (Feb 19, 2005)

Having a baby in the hospital is no excuse to leave the baby at the mercy of the staff.
While I would have preferred a homebirth with my twins it wasnt possible, but that doesnt mean the hospital had carte blanche to do whatever they want. Those kids never left my side, not for a second.


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## RiverSky (Jun 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hummingbear*
HUH?

If my cats ever get lost, they have AVID brand microchips in them, supplied by the local Humane Society at my cost. The scanners are free to veterinarians, SPCA, Humane Society etc., then the owners have a fee (I think it's $40) to keep the pet's number on record. All you do if you find a lost cat or dog, is wave the scanner over their neck and beep, a number comes up on the screen. The employees of AVID then take the number, look it up in their database and tell you the name of the pet, the owner, their address, etc.

I thought it was a great thing for my cats, but then I immediately started to freak out, since it's just a normal looking needle (though a large one), a shot, that puts the chips inside. I'm sure the technology for smaller microchips, perhaps mixed in with a vaccine or other shot, exists. The idea of Big Brother tracking us down via inconspicuously placed scanners bothers me.


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## Lizzo (Jul 26, 2005)

That makes me so sick. I cannot even imagine what I'd do. I'd freak. I'd sue. I'd be livid...ugh AWFUL!!!!







:


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## purplemama (Jun 4, 2004)

When I gave birth to DS2, I was in the hospital room alone with him (DH had gone home for a shower) and a doctor came in and said, "I'm here to circumcise your son." I looked at him and said, "Um..., we're not circumcising him," and he looked at his paperwork and said, "Oh, sorry," and walked out. I was wondering after that incident, what if I had been in the bathroom or something? Would he have performed it without me there, or what? I don't know if there had been any signed paperwork he was holding, but still... it made me shudder to think what could have happened. DH or I never left his side at the hospital... I just don't have trust in all the staff.


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## InDaPhunk (Jun 24, 2005)

This entire thread is about to send me into panic mode. C ya.


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## hunnybumm (Nov 1, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *purplemama*
When I gave birth to DS2, I was in the hospital room alone with him (DH had gone home for a shower) and a doctor came in and said, "I'm here to circumcise your son." I looked at him and said, "Um..., we're not circumcising him," and he looked at his paperwork and said, "Oh, sorry," and walked out.

OMG That is so scary! It really amazing me what idiots are out there in charge of our medical health.

I am guessing the family in the article isn't going to sue. It sounds like they were on the fence and probably just figure it isn't that big of a deal. I really wish that would sue and at least get the hospital to stop doing circ and making it an appointment at the Peds office sort of thing.

Also, with my local hospital the baby is taken to the nursery at every shift change for 2 hours (now it is only 2 times a day, when DS was born it was 3 times a day). I have talked to quite a few woman who have tried to keep their baby with them to no avail. So it isn't always possible to be with your baby 24/7 at every hospital. Sad but true.

Luckily this time we are giving birth at a BC that doesn't circ. However, I put (in bold letters) in my birth plan that If this baby is a boy it would not be circ, and there would be NO retraction. The MW said they don't circ and all they do is look at the penis, they don't retract in any way shape or form.


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## bravofrenchie (Oct 15, 2004)

OMG! I would be the mother from hell if that happened to my baby!


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

This is so sad and one reason my next babe will be born at home. My ds was born in the hospital (insurance didn't cover homebirth, blah blah) and I was a nervous wreck that they would circ him. I swear I would have probably at least beat the crap out of someone if they had. The thought brings me to tears, ugh.
Poor baby. If I was the parents I would most definitely sue.


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## joandsarah77 (Jul 5, 2005)

Unbelievable. A nightmare come true. I'de be





















and so ready to sue the living daylights out of him. Man am I gald that dosn't happen over here, I'de be too scared to even leeve the baby to go to the bathroom. What a shame it sounds like his parents probably wont sue, it might have been a great wake up call to these careless Dr's.


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hunnybumm*
Also, with my local hospital the baby is taken to the nursery at every shift change for 2 hours (now it is only 2 times a day, when DS was born it was 3 times a day). I have talked to quite a few woman who have tried to keep their baby with them to no avail. So it isn't always possible to be with your baby 24/7 at every hospital. Sad but true.

I gotta wonder how these women "tried". Not knocking them, but did they say "No, I'd really rather you didn't take him" and the nurses said "but this is hospital policy; we have to" and they said "oh, okay then"? Or did they continue to hold onto their children with death grips and the nurses had to sedate them and pry their screaming infants out of their arms? I think the latter approach is what most of us here at MDC are advocating.









Incidentally, Harrisburg Hospital in PA recently overturned a mandatory separation policy after a protest this summer. Change can be made.


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## njeb (Sep 10, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Super Pickle*
Yeah,I hope they sue the living daylights out of that hospital and scare them out of resuming circs.









:





























Sue the doctors, too!!!!!


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## Guest* (Aug 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bravofrenchie*
OMG! I would be the mother from hell if that happened to my baby!

Me too! Someone would have to hold me and DH back so we didn't physically harm the people who physically harmed our son!

Oh, man. I can't believe that.







Poor kid.


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## canuckgal (May 5, 2004)

I am a lurker here but as a mom of an intact 28 mo old and an OB nurse who has seen many many circs I had to chime in.

Unfortuneately as a nurse who has worked in extremely busy city hospitals on OBS floors I can see how this happened. I live in a small city outlying Winnipeg and while I don't work at this hospital, I have spoken to nurses who do and it has gotten extremely busy. One hospital in the city has stopped offering OBS services, so for a city of 600,000+ people plus rural areas there are only TWO hospitals that offer maternity care. Cutbacks plus busy-ness equals medical errors...it has been proven with medication errors and otherwise that the "system" the error happens in is a major contributing factor to the chain of errors, which ends in the individual making the mistake. And to the poster that said that they weren't glad that those things don't happen here think again...maybe not things as dramatic as the wrong surgery, but things like assessments of your patients not being done as often as standard or meds given to late or omitted for a dose, or a dressing change not done because of some other crisis for a more acute patient, etc. In the days I worked L&D in a city hospital I remember 10-12 babies born in a span of 12-18 hours some days and it was so busy my head was spinning and it was all you could do to keep who was in what room and dialated what # of cm's straight.

Regarding this actual error...On a postpartum ward with 30 plus patients, admissions coming in constantly, people needing help to breastfeed or something for pain...it can be nuts. Still, it could have been something like 2 patients in the same room, or more than one circ done that day, etc. My guess is the parents were told that they would be back with the baby and weren't told what it was for, or maybe they were told it was a circ and they thought this was done with everyone and didn't need to give consent in writing, and most definitely the baby's nameband and a written consent was not checked before starting, even though I imagine the consent was obtained for the right baby, just the wrong baby was done when the time came and the paper work was not double checked. Actually the hospital I work in now does very few deliveries...only 20-30 per month, and this week we had 2 babies the same sex with the same last name...scary!

Before someone flames me understand that I am not saying this is right, and most definitely an error was made, as one who works in the medical system I am trying to shed light as to how it could happen....but it still makes this a horrible situation.

Regarding letting your babies out of your sight... As a mom you have every right to insist your babies stay with you! Our scale is not portable so I weigh my babies in the nursery but I always welcome a dad or visitor to come if mom is not able to get up. I found it hard to believe the person who said the babies were taken out for 2h at shift change...but it is probably for the convienience of the hospital, because they are so busy and have so many babies to assess it is easier to have them in one location and do it all at once, as you never know what hell will break loose on your shift. That being said, babies can also be checked on mom's tummy in the delivery room, or in the bassinette or bed in mom's room.

Good for you who all insist your babies stay with you! Don't let the nurses intimidate you...you have every right!

Going off to read more of this discussion...Tina, here in Manitoba, Canada with dh James and dd Stephanie (5 1/2) and INTACT ds Jonathan (2 yrs)


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## polka123 (Nov 27, 2003)

O-M-G !!







:


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## Paper-Bag-Princess (Aug 26, 2005)

I would sue so fast that their collective heads would spin.

That poor baby! I really hope that the parents of the other baby choose not to circ. their son afterall. Very sad. Winnipeg is the freaking capital of Manitoba. How does this shit happen in 2005?























Pardon my language,







but this is beyond belief.

Sue


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

There was a case years ago where a baby born to parents from India was circed without their permission. Hindu boys are almost never circed and the parents were so, so upset b/c this would have social implications on the boy his whole life. They sued and won.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hunnybumm*
I have talked to quite a few woman who have tried to keep their baby with them to no avail. So it isn't always possible to be with your baby 24/7 at every hospital. Sad but true.



They don't own your baby. IT'S YOUR BABY!! Mamas just have to grow balls (figuratively speaking, of course.)

Oh, and after having one epidural birth and one natural birth, I can tell you that it's MUCH easier to get up and fight for your baby's rights after going natural!!


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

canuckgal, thanks for the insight.









It makes me think, though, that this is even more reason for them to stop doing a completely unnecessary procedure, if they're that busy.







:


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## TigerTail (Dec 22, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *paquerette*
I gotta wonder how these women "tried". Not knocking them, but did they say "No, I'd really rather you didn't take him" and the nurses said "but this is hospital policy; we have to" and they said "oh, okay then"? Or did they continue to hold onto their children with death grips and the nurses had to sedate them and pry their screaming infants out of their arms? I think the latter approach is what most of us here at MDC are advocating.









Incidentally, Harrisburg Hospital in PA recently overturned a mandatory separation policy after a protest this summer. Change can be made.

yup.

it's not that they didn't try (even upon the birth of my second son, where they was MANDATORY ROOMING IN- who says there isn't change in the wind?







), it's that we said 'no' and meant it. (after the csec w/ my 1st son, while i was groggy, dh went with the baby; we had agreed that even if i was dropping dead during the process of stitching me up, you *don't leave the baby*.)

my prayers are with single moms, or moms with crappy partners (like me during the birth of my dd), who have to go this alone. i hope they have family members or friends that can step up to the plate (yet another reason for same-sex marriage; imagine being partnered to a woman in that circumstance, and not being allowed to go with the baby because you are not 'family'.







)

susan


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## hunnybumm (Nov 1, 2003)

Ok, well I am sure that the mothers didn't have to be sedated and their children removed from the wretched arms, but these woman didn't just say "Well, I would rather keep my baby... but if you insist..." It was somewhere in the middle. The nurses have (sometimes with force) removed babies from the mothers arms, put them in the bassanet and left the room. They really did try, and I have yet to hear of anyone not having their baby taken to the nursery during the shift changes. I am not saying it's impossible, but very very unlikely and difficult. I am sure a protest or letter writing could change this, but this is no longer my fight, I refuse to use this hospital unless I am actually in need of medical attention.

And yes, when my DS was born it was 'hospital policy' to take the baby back to the nursery 3 times a day for 2 hours each time. I remember this vividly, I didn't fight to keep him with me, I was ignorant and went along with everything I was told. After my son was born I got to hold him for about 30 mintues, he was then taken to the nursery for 3 hours before I got to see him again. It was mentioned to be by the lamaze instructor, the OB, as well as a nurse that one of the reasons for this was to keep track of the babies during the shift change. And that was the time when the peds looked over the babies. Also, parents are not allowed in that area. If you want they can wheel your baby to the window (if they are not too busy sitting around listening to the babies scream) but only employees are allowed through the door.

Also, from a friend who was a nurse at the hospital, many times the babies would be screaming and the nurses just didn't feel like taking the babies back to the mothers, so they let them scream until the 2 hours were up. Luckily my friend (who breastfeeds) felt bad for the babies and would take the babies back to the mothers.

Four months ago a mother from my LLL group delivered at the same hospital and they only removed her child for 1 hour 3 times a day. So I don't know if enough people complaind or if they just decided to change their policy, but at least it has gotten better. A friend who delivered 1 month ago had the same experience.

This are just a few reasons why I chose a BC that is 2 hours away rather than this hospital that is 10 mintues away.


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## tiffer23 (Nov 7, 2005)

That's why I'm not letting our baby out of our sight. If the baby has to go somewhere, DH has been told he's to follow the baby!


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## Mewsin (Aug 30, 2004)

I'm honestly glad to be having my baby in the hospital I am. They don't have a nursery. Everything is done right beside you. I had Koivu, I carried him to the room, they weighed him and washed him right infront of me, I coslept with him in my hospital bed. He never left my sight. I wouldn't have had it any other way.

Oh, and they have an alarm that they attach to the umbilical stump so that the babies can't even be brought near the door without notice.

Also, I'm wondering if the hospital wasn't downplaying their mistake by saying the parents hadn't decided yet. They may have said, no circ, but the hospital doesn't actually want to tell the general public that part.


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## teniprice (Oct 7, 2003)

How awful for that little boy and his family.









When my ds was born, they put a sticker in his bassinett that read "NO" stating that he wasn't to be circ'd. It was also in our birth plan but no one ever said anything after his sticker was placed. Our hospital did take the babies every so often to watch them. I have heard people writing on their babies diapers "No Circ" just in case...


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## Past_VNE (Dec 13, 2003)

It happened to my husband.









I've never felt such long-standing fury as I do hold for that doctor. I've often imagined the things I would say or do if only I had the opportunity to meet the bastard.

DH's family is firmly anti-circ and all intact. They sued at the time and won a very small settlement. Good for them for pursuing it, but sadly it also eliminated DH's option to sue for what it truly was worth.

--------------------

On a similar note, DH's brother was born with malformed, inoperative testicles. They tried to force his parents to give him a sex-change operation! I think, in the 70s/80s, they were looking for any opportunity to do it, to study the effects that it had...but that's just my little conspiracy theory.


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## calngavinsmom (Feb 19, 2003)

I would have circumcised the hand from the wrist of that "doctor" who did that to my perfect baby boy! How disgusting. uke

Tara


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## Maple Leaf Mama (Jul 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *johub*
Having a baby in the hospital is no excuse to leave the baby at the mercy of the staff.
While I would have preferred a homebirth with my twins it wasnt possible, but that doesnt mean the hospital had carte blanche to do whatever they want. Those kids never left my side, not for a second.

I had my daughter 27 months ago. It was an emergency c/c.
I was told that b/c of the catheter, and the surgery, DD was NOT allowed to be in my room alone with me. Only if DH or someone else was there. For the first 4 days of her life, I was not allowed to bond with her alone/
So, I'm glad you ladies are so adament that yo9u will have home biirths and never let you babies out of your sight. But frankly, I resent the implication that I just didn't bother to do anything about it.
was a first time mother who didn't know I could buck the system.
I was mentally and physically exhausted from 3 days of home labor. And was being chewed out from the hospital ped. So I was afraid to put up a fuss.
I have grown some balls and intent to make my wishes know in the future. But please don't make statememts like I wonder how hard they really tried, because that's just nasty.


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## calngavinsmom (Feb 19, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maple Leaf Mama*
I had my daughter 27 months ago. It was an emergency c/c.
I was told that b/c of the catheter, and the surgery, DD was NOT allowed to be in my room alone with me. Only if DH or someone else was there. For the first 4 days of her life, I was not allowed to bond with her alone/
So, I'm glad you ladies are so adament that yo9u will have home biirths and never let you babies out of your sight. But frankly, I resent the implication that I just didn't bother to do anything about it.
was a first time mother who didn't know I could buck the system.
I was mentally and physically exhausted from 3 days of home labor. And was being chewed out from the hospital ped. So I was afraid to put up a fuss.
I have grown some balls and intent to make my wishes know in the future. But please don't make statememts like I wonder how hard they really tried, because that's just nasty.









s to you Momma. I was like you with my first. I didn't say boo either, (the only balls I had were the ones that had vacated my uterus on the baby boy I delivered earlier that day) I was just lucky that where we live, rooming in is the norm.

Take care,
Tara


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## Maple Leaf Mama (Jul 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *calngavinsmom*







s to you Momma. I was like you with my first. I didn't say boo either, (the only balls I had were the ones that had vacated my uterus on the baby boy I delivered earlier that day) I was just lucky that where we live, rooming in is the norm.

Take care,
Tara

Where are you?
I'm in Ottawa.
I think rooming in is the way it's done here too, unless you have a c/s.
Live and learn,huh?


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## TigerTail (Dec 22, 2002)

yes, i am sorry for how much bossier there are to first-time moms (i was hoping it had changed some from when i had my dd almost 19 years ago, but i see they still bully moms when they think they can get away with it.)









the only thing for it is for us old cranky moms they don't dare to pull that crap on, to *let you know*. that's what we're doing. i am sorry they were bastiches.

when i had my c-sec, they were 'funny' about me being alone in the room with baby w/out dh, too. after a major surgery like that, it is a safety/liability thing; they'd rather be uber-careful than have some morphined-out mama fall or drop the baby or whatever. looking at is as 'help', is less aggravating. so when i was still groggy/sore, my dh slept in the room on the couch.

they can examine babies in your room- i'm not saying they won't gripe, but it's not the end of the world if they do. they'll tell you there's not enough light, or it's inconvenient- bugger it. i swear to you, they can figure out a way if you are adamant enough.

it is not your fault you were bullied; it is the fault of the bullies. but now you know, & so do other first time mamas. that's a good thing, right?









susan


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## Frankly Speaking (May 24, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A*
Mamas just have to grow balls!!

I certainly hope I never come across one of those. I would be quite shocked to say the least!







:

Frank


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## calngavinsmom (Feb 19, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maple Leaf Mama*
Where are you?
I'm in Ottawa.
I think rooming in is the way it's done here too, unless you have a c/s.
Live and learn,huh?

I'm in St.Catharines. I didn't have a c/s but from one woman I knew, who did have one, she roomed in as well....maybe because the babys father was with her? Not sure.

Take care,
Tara


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## jessjgh1 (Nov 4, 2004)

How scary, homebirth is looking very good right now-- of course, got to get dh to agree to get pg again before we even go there(-;

I can't imagine- what if the parents hadn't decided yet because one partner didn't want to circ, but everyone else was against her/him? That is goign to be so hard because they are going to have no support on sueing and the family is just going to be like, oh well I guess it was meant to be- or something equally as insulting/stupid.

As for rooming in, I know after my epidural I was also not allowed alone with my ds. One of my legs was knumb and they were worried that I might fall or something trying to get to ds or while holding him. That concern seemed reasonable and luckily my parents were able to stay long enough for the knumbness to go away. I still panicked because my dh had left and my parents were getting ready to leave when they mentioned it--- like I should already KNOW. I just freaked out-- what do you mean you won't let me see my SON-- but then my parents stayed with me till they were satisfied I could manage to walk safely.

Yet another reason to avoid an epidural (and I really tried to, but again, they scared me into thinking it was either c/s or epi)

Also, my midwife advised me to let ds sleep in the nursery the first night because I was so exhausted. I did follow her advise but only because I felt like I was incapable of handling myself in the middle of the night. I so wish I hadn't felt that way, but I did. The darn hospital was so exhausting, I wish I had seen my best bet was to get the heck..ll out of there. I also was unsure about cosleeping- so the whole navigating the bassinete and bed was hard for me to imagine. I was in such pain (from my cut) and no help in the middle of the night. If I had just known to take my ds next to me and sleep sleep sleep.... I wonder what they would have done about that.

What I WISH I had done was beg my mother or dh to stay with me in the hospital. It sucked to be in there alone and to have my ds not with me- but I was so afraid I would be a klutz to him so in some ways he was better off. I've never felt so powerless in my life and it was all self-projected because the hospital and midwives are very supportive, but I just was still in the midst of my learning about things (cosleeping, circ, vaxxing, etc.)

Yep, there's a lot of work to be done to improve the 'birth process'. I still can't believe what I let happen and what others let happen. We hadn't decided yet what to do about circ- so having something accidental happen was on my mind a lot.

Home birth is looking really really good to me now that I know more(-; Ok, rant done.

Jessica


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## RiverSky (Jun 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maple Leaf Mama*
Where are you?
I'm in Ottawa.
I think rooming in is the way it's done here too, unless you have a c/s.
Live and learn,huh?

I had both of my children via c-section in a Kaiser Permanente Hospital in California and they ENCOURAGED rooming in and that is what I did. Go Kaiser!


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maple Leaf Mama*
But please don't make statememts like I wonder how hard they really tried, because that's just nasty.

It sounds like you did everything you possibly could. I was just wondering whether these other mothers did everything that they possibly could or thought that they had no right to argue. Forgive me for wondering. I honestly don't see what's nasty about that.

I know that not everyone's of the same mindset, or in the same place that we were or anything, but I think that if this had happened to us my DH would probably have knocked someone's teeth down their throat. (Either the accidental circ or the kidnapping.) That was actually pretty high on my worry list, that he would end up assaulting someone.


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## Maple Leaf Mama (Jul 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *paquerette*
It sounds like you did everything you possibly could. I was just wondering whether these other mothers did everything that they possibly could or thought that they had no right to argue. Forgive me for wondering. I honestly don't see what's nasty about that.

I know that not everyone's of the same mindset, or in the same place that we were or anything, but I think that if this had happened to us my DH would probably have knocked someone's teeth down their throat. (Either the accidental circ or the kidnapping.) That was actually pretty high on my worry list, that he would end up assaulting someone.









I'm just very touchy about my whole crappy birth experience.
It was almost 2 1/2 years ago, but just this past week, I was in tears about it.
When I was watching the Today show about the whole ferber thing, and I saw the babies crying in the bassi's by themselves-well I fell apart thinking about all the things I COULD have done, should have done. Then I just got mad and thought I must be so spineless to let some stranger insist on taking my baby away. We all slept in the same bed as soon as we got home, so what was the big deal (except to cover their own asses)?
I just tend to get very defensive about this b/c I really didn't know I could say piss off, leave my baby here-if I need you, I'll ring for you.
Let's just say things will be totally different the next time.
(I couldn't even have a Doula b/c of the whole SARS fiasco-I would have had to choose between her and DH)
Sorry if I got pissy, it's just that when people make blanket statements like that, you can step on toes.
Sandy


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Just for the record, I was bullied around as a first-time mom, too. So my dd was in the nursery quite a bit. Plus I was in such pain from my episiotomy that I needed the morphine and really couldn't handle taking care of her. It made me feel really powerless, as well.

It was only on my second child (ds)that I went natural (no epidural and no episiotomy!!!) and kept my ds with me the whole time. It was SOOOOO much more empowering ----so I wish very empowering future births to all of you.


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## joandsarah77 (Jul 5, 2005)

That is so diffrent to my hospital stays over here. Here they asume your rooming in, and you have to ask if you want your baby taken to the nursary.
With my last c-cection with ds I was mostly left to fend for myself from the second morning and could have done with some more help.


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## beachrock (Apr 26, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *purplemama*
When I gave birth to DS2, I was in the hospital room alone with him (DH had gone home for a shower) and a doctor came in and said, "I'm here to circumcise your son." I looked at him and said, "Um..., we're not circumcising him," and he looked at his paperwork and said, "Oh, sorry," and walked out.

This happened to us too, except the nurse had ds 's bassinet half-way out the door before I had the chance to say "WAIT! We're not circumcising!" There was even a stiker on the bassinet reading "infant not to be circ'ed". Sheesh.
DH always went everywhere with ds at the hospital. We were afraid of what else they might do to him.


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## mlec (May 29, 2005)

That poor little baby. How awful!

So many sad stories of first births in hospitals. I'm so lucky I found my way to mw care b/f my dd was born.


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## punko5 (Feb 21, 2005)

we stay with our babes after the birth.. thankfully...
birthed our last one at a BC in the water... into my hands... it couldn't happen to us.
but that poor child/family


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Yeah, this whole topic worries me, too...no for circ reasons as we are having a girl...but for vax & formula reasons. I am having a section and hubby can go up, BUT for the hr. I am in recovery they make him wait in my reg. room for me w/ the baby in the nursery. The rest of the time she'll be w/ me but it's that 1st hr. that is freaking me out!!


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

Quote:

BUT for the hr. I am in recovery they make him wait in my reg. room for me w/ the baby in the nursery
Wait... so, you're in recovery alone... your DH is in your hospital room alone... and the babe is in the nursery alone?







:














I would absolutely fight this tooth and nail. I don't see why your DH and the baby can't be in your hospital room together, or else your DH hanging out in the nursery with the baby if they insist that they need to monitor her. I don't know what it's like with a c birth but I've heard of people having their babies in recovery with them.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *paquerette*
Wait... so, you're in recovery alone... your DH is in your hospital room alone... and the babe is in the nursery alone?







:














I would absolutely fight this tooth and nail. I don't see why your DH and the baby can't be in your hospital room together, or else your DH hanging out in the nursery with the baby if they insist that they need to monitor her. I don't know what it's like with a c birth but I've heard of people having their babies in recovery with them.

Yeah, makes alot'a sence, right??







: I do plan to fight this, but being on another floor, unable to move...they just do what they want anyhow. Just like I KNOW all my kids got formula in the hospital...some nurses seem to do the oppsite of what the parents want for the sake of being right it seems. I am working on DH also & I think he's starting to see the light more and more...he isn't normally one to "rock the boat." I mean it IS his baby, too...he can just take it to the room & I can't see how they could do a damn thing...or so I believe...I am going to bring it all up with my OB at the next appt.


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## RNapmomma (Jan 8, 2004)

Quote:

Wait... so, you're in recovery alone... your DH is in your hospital room alone... and the babe is in the nursery alone? I would absolutely fight this tooth and nail. I don't see why your DH and the baby can't be in your hospital room together, or else your DH hanging out in the nursery with the baby if they insist that they need to monitor her. I don't know what it's like with a c birth but I've heard of people having their babies in recovery with them.
You need to go directly to nursing and hospital administration. Do NOT let this happen


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RNapmomma*
You need to go directly to nursing and hospital administration. Do NOT let this happen

Thanks...I am assuming from your ID that you're a RN??







Do you have any tips?? Do you think that behind "closed nursery doors" they do what they want with these babies anyhow?? This is the impression I get though I'd love an "insiders' view!!
I am glad I came to this thread, it's given me alot of motivation!! (Not that I wouldn't have tried anyway...) Maybe it WILL be possible though...


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## TigerTail (Dec 22, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *paquerette*
Wait... so, you're in recovery alone... your DH is in your hospital room alone... and the babe is in the nursery alone?







:














I would absolutely fight this tooth and nail. I don't see why your DH and the baby can't be in your hospital room together, or else your DH hanging out in the nursery with the baby if they insist that they need to monitor her. I don't know what it's like with a c birth but I've heard of people having their babies in recovery with them.
















:
the baby was taken to me in recovery, but there was still that period where they were fixing lovely little details like replacing my bladder. you need to get the papa bear in your dh aroused. they cannot keep your dh from the baby if he insists, not if the baby is healthy & not having emergency major heart surgery or something. you TELL them (nicely!), you don't ask.

in the long run most hospital personnel treat you better if you are assertive (esp about things like bfing, no-circ, rooming-in etc.) they see enough depressed & unresponsive, and/or ignorant & uninvolved mothers that good nurses & peds are thrilled to see fierce happy people who give a damn. (isn't that sad, for society to train you to be a 'good girl' and do as 'they' say, & then like & respect you more for being ballsy- er, ovary-ie? gonadical.







)

susan

ps as dear to me as the memory of my vbac babe on my belly before his cord was cut, wet & nuzzly & new, is the knowledge that when my little (well, almost 10 lb







) c-sec guy was in the nursery crying, my dh held his hand & sang to him, & he calmed. he knew his daddy's voice already, you see. tell your dh not to let them steal a memory like that from him.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

DH is in here with me now & we're talking about it - he says that he was allowed to go to the nursery in the sence of going to it physically, but having to stay outside & look through the window...then they said to go to the room & the baby would be RIGHT THERE...yeah, an hr. later.







Yes, he is agreeing with me and will keep her with him. I certainly hope it goes this way, will talk to med. staff before regardless. I actually hope he doesn't even have to & that she can come to recovery with me.








Thanks!!
~Marie


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

PS~ Suseyblue, did you coign the term "Gonadical??" LOVE IT!! LOL!!


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## TigerTail (Dec 22, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm*
PS~ Suseyblue, did you coign the term "Gonadical??" LOVE IT!! LOL!!









i guess i did, lol- i always say, "she's got ovaries', but that doesn't work linguistically with 'ballsy'.

mr jillette said i coined 'hard-off', so i guess i'm up for two. 

susan


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Ugh- the whole medical system is so messed up in this country (USA) and the medicalization of birth is just rediculous.

I don't understand why they're circ'ing healthy newborn boys in an OB unit to begin with. Those who circ for religious reasons (like me) aren't going to want it done at the hospital anyway, and anybody who really wants it done for cosmetic/stupidity reasons can have it done at the ped's office in a week.


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## Lisa Lubner (Feb 27, 2004)

Quote:

I was told that b/c of the catheter, and the surgery, DD was NOT allowed to be in my room alone with me. Only if DH or someone else was there. For the first 4 days of her life, I was not allowed to bond with her alone
this happened to me too. i was told that i couldn't have the baby in my room with me unless there was someone else there.







:

i was lucky enough to have enough support to get through it... my best friend babysat my 2 year old overnight so that my husband could sleep in the hospital room with me. during the day, DH would go home to take care of my son while by friend came to stay with me at the hospital during the day. one night, my friend wasn't available to babysit, so my DH brought our 2 year old to sleep in the hospital room too. he was fast asleep by 7pm... but that didn't stop the nurse from coming in and giving me a hard time, telling me my son was disturbing the other patients (he was FAST ASLEEP) and that he had to go home. i told her it was the only way i could keep the newborn with me. she looked at the empty bassinet and said "well, your baby isn't here right now." i lifted up the covers where my newborn was snuggling and nursing, and said OH YES SHE IS. the nurse gave in and left us alone for the rest of the night.

one of the days though, when my husband wasn't there for whatever reason (this was a very brief period of time btw) and they said they needed to do some test... that they would be back in 15 minutes. i said OK, but as 15 minutes came and went, they weren't back so i GOT UP and very gingerly walked to the nursery. my baby was lying there bawling her eyes out while two nurses just sat there LITERALLY with their feet up. i knocked on the glass and said i wanted my baby back. i tried to pick her up, but they told me i couldn't walk with her in my arms, that i had to push her in the bassinet...

UGH!!! and to hear about this poor baby being circ'd by mistake!!! how scary. how infuriating.


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## lovemygirl (Feb 22, 2002)

OMG!!!!!!!! This is horrible!!! I am SO outraged. That poor baby.







Oh man I would be freakin if that was my baby.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

MomiEilis~ Wow. That's unreal. I am sorry you & your baby had to go through that. Just awful.


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## BelovedBird (Apr 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *QueenOfThePride*

Wouldn't it be great if hospitals just stopped offering circumcision and parents had to make an appointment for it later on?

Definately!!


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## RubyWild (Apr 7, 2004)

I'm in the middle of reading _Complications : a surgeon's notes on an imperfect science_ by Atul Gawande. It's a fascinating read about the imperfections/mistakes made in medicine. Physicians and surgeons make mistakes all the time and because of the medical culture, must constantly cover their tracks and never admit wrong-doing. Physicians, being human, make an error and someone else has to live with the consequences.

One small change made in medical protocol recently was - immediately before a schedule surgery - to have the MD initial with a pen right onto the body part to be operated on. THat way the patient and staff can confirm it's the correct leg or whatever before going in to surgery. This alone reduced the number of wrong parts being operated on each year.

I don't understand a medical protocol that allows minors to be operated on without the guardians there before, possibly during, and after the surgery. That protocol is severely messed up!


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## RubyWild (Apr 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm*
Yeah, makes alot'a sence, right??







: I do plan to fight this, but being on another floor, unable to move...they just do what they want anyhow. Just like I KNOW all my kids got formula in the hospital...some nurses seem to do the oppsite of what the parents want for the sake of being right it seems. I am working on DH also & I think he's starting to see the light more and more...he isn't normally one to "rock the boat." I mean it IS his baby, too...he can just take it to the room & I can't see how they could do a damn thing...or so I believe...I am going to bring it all up with my OB at the next appt.

I was told that I couldn't be with my daughter when I was being sewn up. I told them verbally and in writing that I did not give my permission for my baby to ever be out of mine or my Dh's direct supervision. The hospital has no right whatsoever to circumvent your refusal to consent. The hospital cannot legally do anything without your consent. They can pretend and bluff differently, but stand your ground. I did!

After my c-section, my physician and anesthisiologist were so impressed with how smoothly it went having me hold the baby while I was sewn up that they said they were going to look into changing hospital protocol. I'm very proud of that because I think it can help so many families.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RubyWild*
After my c-section, my physician and anesthisiologist were so impressed with how smoothly it went having me hold the baby while I was sewn up that they said they were going to look into changing hospital protocol. I'm very proud of that because I think it can help so many families.









WTG!! That's awesome!! I couldn't ever hold mine in the OR...or recovery...just in my room. (An hr. later with my boys, then with my daughter I was only in recovery 20 min.) I have heard of moms having the baby in recovery but here it's on another floor & with them it's a "We can't let the baby leave the maternity unit" thing. Though the OR certainly isn't there either...so why not only GO to the MU AFTER when we BOTH can?? I guess cuz it makes too much sence...


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## moppity (Aug 15, 2005)

Wow, thats horrible. Thank goodness I live in a country where you can't get circ done in hospital after the birth and rooming in is normal. I would freak if this ever happened to my baby.


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## Maple Leaf Mama (Jul 2, 2004)

Incedentally, I don't know if you ladies have heard of this case.
In the SAME city as this accidental circumcision was performed (the city I was born in)there was a baby boy in the 70's who had a grossely maimed penis afterward. So much so, that they decided to cut it off and call him a girl. They tried to raise him like a girl, even though he always resisted wearing dresses and playing with dolls.
It became harder and harder for him to live life like a girl.
I think he did eventually decide to live as a boy and even got married.
This poor guy appeared on Oprah 2 or 3 years ago.
He has since commited suicide.

This is the scenario that has made me rethink routine circumcision. DH wants it and keeps telling me I'm not the woman he married (I was very into myself-couldn't leave the house without perfect hair, nails....), and since DD I'm gettieng crunchier by the day after spending time here at MDC


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Yeah, I did hear about that. There's a website that tells his story.


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## calicokatt (Mar 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hunnybumm*
Also, with my local hospital the baby is taken to the nursery at every shift change for 2 hours (now it is only 2 times a day, when DS was born it was 3 times a day). I have talked to quite a few woman who have tried to keep their baby with them to no avail. So it isn't always possible to be with your baby 24/7 at every hospital. Sad but true.

Please tell me this is not true? I, for one, would call the police and slap that hospital with a kidnapping charge so fast their collective heads would spin. They have NO right to do that.


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## Dave2GA (Jul 31, 2005)

Unfortunately wrongful circumcision is very common. I am a trial lawyer who concentrates in genital injury litigation. Since 1995 I have been involved either as counsel or as an adivsor in more than 20 cases where a boy was not to be circed but ended up circed anyway. The cases have been all over the place: in Texas, Illinois, Arkansas, Alabama, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Georgia, Virginia, New York, Ontario. I even had one for an adult in Kentucky. In 1995 we obtained a $65,000 verdict for a boy in Alabama. Even though the cases are now worth real money, the defendants fight them like the devil. I recommend marking your son's bassinet "NO CIRCUMCISION" in the hospital. I also recommend getting one of the baby shirts with the NO CIRCUMCISION symbol on it. NOCIRC has them or you can make your own. And be sure to express your wishes in no uncertain terms to both your Obstetrician and Pediatrician well in advance of the birth. Husbands should make sure that their wives are not conned into signing a consent form for circ while under the effects of drugs after the birth. Better safe than sorry.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

That's actually a really good tip, the no circ shirt!! HOW can they say they didn't know at that point??


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## RubyWild (Apr 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm*
I have heard of moms having the baby in recovery but here it's on another floor & with them it's a "We can't let the baby leave the maternity unit" thing. Though the OR certainly isn't there either...so why not only GO to the MU AFTER when we BOTH can?? I guess cuz it makes too much sence...

Thank you. I was told a lot of things that the hospital could not do. I was told that it was too cold in ER for me to hold my baby (I asked if I was going to be cold. No, then the baby won't be cold on my chest under a blanket.) I was told I might drop her (I said my husband would stand next to me and make sure that didn't happen). I was told the baby couldn't ride on the stretcher with me. (I said that "I do not consent to you taking this baby from my arms.")

I don't expect everyone to want to go toe to toe on this while in such a vulnerable situation, but I'm glad that I refused to accept their B.S. as truth. There are ways around their protocol.


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## RubyWild (Apr 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maple Leaf Mama*
Incedentally, I don't know if you ladies have heard of this case.
In the SAME city as this accidental circumcision was performed (the city I was born in)there was a baby boy in the 70's who had a grossely maimed penis afterward. So much so, that they decided to cut it off and call him a girl. They tried to raise him like a girl, even though he always resisted wearing dresses and playing with dolls.

In that case, though, the parents consented to the circumcision of Bruce (later Brenda and then David). The doctor was using a method called ablatio, where an electrical current was used to cut and cauterize the foreskin. The settings were wrong and the penis was instantly burnt to ashes. As far as I know, that procedure isn't used anymore and hasn't been for decades.

Not that I support circumcision.


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## hummingbear (Apr 17, 2003)

Dave2GA

Good to see you here. I hope you can help bring our medical practices here in the states to their senses.

I know you have offered to help those who have been wronged.

I would like to ask you if there is anything legal to be done about medical schools which are teaching outdated and potentially harmful information on the care of an intact penis.

It seems that wrongful actions can be stopped more effectively by making sure that the educational institutions are doing the right thing.


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## Dave2GA (Jul 31, 2005)

I agree that we need to get the med schools teaching the correct material. Perhaps the best place to start is with the medical textbook publishers. If everyone with access to a med library would look through the pediatric, general anatomy, obstetric, nursing, urologic, and family practice texts and then write the authors and publishers to correct incorrect information (and believe you me most of the texts are full of incorrect info about the normal penis, the foreskin, progressive retraction, etc.) about the normal penis and circ, then perhaps they would begin to listen. There is power in numbers. In addition each person can educate their own OB and Ped by using the NOCIRC pamphlets. We need everyone doing all they can to promote the truth. Lawsuits are only so effective, because they are not brought that often. Not that one should not sue. On the contrary, suits are necessary to vindicate your child's violated rights. However, other methods can be at least as effective as suits in changing doctor's minds.


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## Shenjall (Sep 14, 2002)

"Incedentally, I don't know if you ladies have heard of this case.
In the SAME city as this accidental circumcision was performed"

Actually, it was the same hospital. Slightly frightening.

Most of my kids were born there. My one intact son was saved by the nurses. They wouldnt give me the consent form and asked me many thought provoking questions on why we wanted it done. Of course, at the time I was pissed but it planted a seed let me tell ya. Thank you nurses!

FYI, the hospital has stopped all circumcisions while they investigate. I'm hoping it stays that way. The thing thats confusing me though, is that circ's are no longer covered by MB health, so you need to make an appt, pay, and come back later. As far as I understood, they stopped doing them right after birth. I wondered what happened to that policy?


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## Paper-Bag-Princess (Aug 26, 2005)

The hospital where I had my son no longer performs circ. They haven't in years. I was so paranoid about someone circ'ing my son that I began telling my ob, from about 20 weeks on, that there was no way my son would be circ'd. I later found out that the hospital no longer performed them. If you wanted it done, you had to make an appt. at a clinic to have it done. My son was lucky. I was relieved to find out that the nurses on the mat. floor were all well aware of how to take care of the intact penis. Our family gp knows how to take care of an intact child, the ped. in the hospital was from an intact culture too. My son was lucky.

I feel so badly for that baby. I can't stop thinking of him and his parents. I sent my dh everywhere with our ds when I couldn't get out of bed (c-sect., don't get me started... lol!). I can't imagine how we'd feel, and the amount of unnecessary pain our son would've felt, when we already decided to leave him intact, and he was circ'd anyway.

I'm sorry, I just can't get past how pissed off I'd be that someone did that







:







. I hope that the hospital stops performing circs all together, and that the parents take the hospital to task for their utter negligence and incompetance.


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## susienjay (Oct 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla*
Ugh- the whole medical system is so messed up in this country (USA) and the medicalization of birth is just rediculous.

I don't understand why they're circ'ing healthy newborn boys in an OB unit to begin with. Those who circ for religious reasons (like me) aren't going to want it done at the hospital anyway, and anybody who really wants it done for cosmetic/stupidity reasons can have it done at the ped's office in a week.

I totally agree with you. The hospital I had my twins at would even circ preemies as long as they weighed 4 pounds. I know of a couple that were circed over a month before their due date. It seems pretty irresponsible of the hospital to do surgery on a baby so small. One of the little guys I heard the doctor/nurses debating if the baby was actually ready to go home. If he wasn't ready to go home then why was he okay for surgery? He was so tiny I didn't see why his parents couldn't have had it done a week or 2 later. Plus they didn't even stay with him for the surgery. I don't know much about Jewish circ but I do know of one mom who delayed the bris because her son was a preemie.

Since I couldn't stay with my son all the time I put DO NOT CIRC in red sharpie across his chart. It got me some weird looks but at least it me feel better.


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## LadyMarmalade (May 22, 2005)

Remind me never to have a baby in Winnipeg. That hospital should be shut down. First that poor guy whose entire penis they cut off. Then there was the baby they forgot to put the ID bracelet on, and it had to have DNA testing done. Then there was the mother who sued because they gave her the wrong child to breastfeed (she nursed it for an hour). And now they circumcise the wrong boy. Yikes.


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## crissei (Oct 17, 2004)

During my pregnancy I told everyone that I never wanted my baby to leave my sight.
Well of course my all of my plans had to be scrapped. (see sig)
I had to watch my tiny baby endure countless medical procedures. He was constantly being poked with needles and had tubes and wires coming out of him. Then the day I had to leave the hospital without him (he was only 5 days old/ 31 weeks gestation) the OB came in and asked if I wanted to circ... I wanted to puke on the spot!
Yeah, my baby hasn't had enough pain yet, hasn't endured enough hell mabye we should start cutting parts off of him!

Anyway my point is , the 7 weeks DS was in the hospital was the worst time of my life, and one of the worst things about it was wondering WHAT were they doing to him when I wasn't there?


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

((((Crissei)))) Oh, man - I am so sorry. It's like adding insult to injury...gee, we haven't done NEARLY enough, let's rip some skin of the most sensative part of your body for good meansure!! Gross.


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## Pandora114 (Apr 21, 2005)

ok I hope I NEVER GET POSTED TO WINNEPEG! *Airforce wife, it is a possibility*

Sure it might be a nice city and all, with it's obvious draw backs, like only two seasons, bitter cold and mosquito. But man, does anyone know if midwifery is covered by the MB medicare because for crying out loud I am NOT gonna birth in that hospital *shudder* if that happens no THANK YOU. I'd go UC before I went there.


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## Shenjall (Sep 14, 2002)

As a proud winnipeger, I cant help but feel slightly offended......its not the city's fault, its one crappy ob ward at one hospital. As another pp mentioned, they have an amazing research facilitly. St. Bonicafe Hospital has a wonderful NICU; the nurses are kind and caring. Well, I take back the "crappy ob ward", even the ob ward has changed. Theres a hot tub available to labouring women; private labour/delivery rooms with your own personal bathroom; rooming in policy. LC on staff, theres 24 hour breastfeeding hotlines in the city.
The biggest problem is with circ in general. It shouldnt be offered - period.

And like I mentioned before, they stopped doing it at the hospitals b/c MB health no longer covers circ's - you now have to pay out of pocket and make an appt with a ped urologist. This is what we were told when our last ds was born. He was a preemie, and our dr said he'd put on our chart that it had to be done before he was discharged so he could do it and save us the $170 (how thoughtful







: ). This is where the nurses came in and refused to give us the consent form. I cant thank them enough for that. (we rethought and left him perfect and intact). Then when my dnephew was born (same hospital) they were told the same thing. Not done here, not medically necessary, heres the # to call. (sadly, wouldnt hear any info and went ahead with it).

Anyway, I'm done defending my city.









And yes, midwives are covered by MB health, our dd was born at home.


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## Pandora114 (Apr 21, 2005)

Still doesn't excuse the fact that ya'll have only two seasons out there, Farking cold and West Nile









I've had enough Cold and Skeeters to last me forever thanks







*Borden ON, second in the mosquito population I swear*

At least ya'll cover midwives. Sure better than going to the hospital and either not making it due to being caught in a snow drift, or getting divebombed by the tons of mosquitoes and arriving as an anemic husk as soon as you walk out the door.

AAAH I'm just joshin ya


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## Shenjall (Sep 14, 2002)

I cant deny it, you are right about the cold and mosquitos!


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## Pandora114 (Apr 21, 2005)

Yeah it's kinda hard to hide that. Mosquitoes the size of small pigeons....

All Canadians know that Victoria and Comox Valley BC are Gods Country where everything is peachy and beautiful and clean!
















Lets just say I'm NOT looking forward to the cross country trip if I'm pregnant, because my DH is gonna get posted in June, and if this cycle is promising, I'll be out to *here* pregnant by then and well DND doesn't cover train trips, and planes wont take me. YAY Prairies in the summer while pregnant woooohoooohooooo

BAH

I'm thinkin Winnepeg aint that bad now, at least it's not far far far...


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## autumn_faune (Jun 15, 2005)

"women need to grow balls"

How abouts if we just get brass ovaries?


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## Maple Leaf Mama (Jul 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pandora114*
ok I hope I NEVER GET POSTED TO WINNEPEG! *Airforce wife, it is a possibility*

Sure it might be a nice city and all, with it's obvious draw backs, like only two seasons, bitter cold and mosquito. But man, does anyone know if midwifery is covered by the MB medicare because for crying out loud I am NOT gonna birth in that hospital *shudder* if that happens no THANK YOU. I'd go UC before I went there.


EEEAAASYYY there!
As a born and bred Winnipegger, I take offence to you slamming my city because of a hospital's mistake (s)
Just so you know (because obviously, you've never been there), Winnipeg has 4 -count them, 4 seasons!
A much welcomed spring starting on April
A hot (albeit mosquito fouled summer)
A beautiful, usually warm fall (with the added Indian summers from Alberta)And a MUCH, MUCH warmer winter than when I lived there even 10 years ago.
Last winter we got a blizzard on Dec. 30. (It needs to be warm to snow, which is why they are more common in the spring)

I'm sure there can be nasty things said about every place on earth. But unless you've lived there, you shouldn't slam a place based on hearsay.

Sandy (who is a bit surprised that I got so protective of Winnipeg. LOL)


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## Pandora114 (Apr 21, 2005)

4?









Freeze your nuts off, Cold, not so cold and Mosquito?









And I've been there...well through there, and over there...so it's not like I've never really ever BEEN there..just passed through.

Bah. Rick Mercer makes fun of Winnepeg all the time. You just let him because he's famous









Let's give peace a chance and make fun of Quebec then shall we?

heheheh


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## Maple Leaf Mama (Jul 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pandora114*
4?









Freeze your nuts off, Cold, not so cold and Mosquito?









And I've been there...well through there, and over there...so it's not like I've never really ever BEEN there..just passed through.

Bah. Rick Mercer makes fun of Winnepeg all the time. You just let him because he's famous









Let's give peace a chance and make fun of Quebec then shall we?

heheheh


Are you kidding me?? It can get into the high 90's there during July and Aug. (Although last summer did suck)
As someone who has also lived in Quebec, I can and do make fun of it.
So I can live with that!


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## Pandora114 (Apr 21, 2005)

July and Aug fall into the Mosquito season.

And I can and do Make fun of Quebec too, I'm half French, my DH is full French.

Hell he was at his school the other day, and some Quebecer private damn near ran him and his fellow classmates over. My DH is a Cpl, the dummy was a Private, so my DH was allowed to dress him down. My DH went "ESTI QUEBEQUOIS!!" And it made everyone laugh because here was this french guy bitching about french guys!

Hey have you noticed that the ambient noise level is exponentially proportional to the amount of Quebecers in a room?

There's a real equation for it my DH made up

Q > 4 = N^8

Q beign the number of Quebecers and N = the noise level. Get it?

I love my family I really and truly do...


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## nd_deadhead (Sep 22, 2005)

I live in North Dakota, 150 miles south of Winnipeg (but not far enough south to be any warmer!)

We get to pick from any number of season descriptions:

1. Winter 2. Bad sledding (though it's so flat here there isn't much sledding)

1. Winter 2. Road construction

1. Winter 2. Late winter 3. Mosquito 4. Almost winter

Actually, we do have lovely spring and fall weather - but usually they fall on weekdays.

I would rather endure cold than heat. One can always put on more clothes to stay warm - there's a limit to how much I can take off!

And we do get the most delightful Northern Lights.


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## Frankly Speaking (May 24, 2002)

This is a hoot watching all of you Eskimos trying to defend that place for a guy that thinks being born this far north (Georgia) was a birth defect.







:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nd_deadhead*
Actually, we do have lovely spring and fall weather - but usually they fall on weekdays.

Yeah, which two week days are spring and which two are fall?

Frank


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## Maple Leaf Mama (Jul 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Frankly Speaking*
This is a hoot watching all of you Eskimos trying to defend that place for a guy that thinks being born this far north (Georgia) was a birth defect.







:
Frank

Don't let any "Eskimos" hear you call them that! They'll string you up!
Eskimo means meat eater in English.
The PC term is now Inuit. Pronounced: in-u-eet.

I also just want to let the southern boy to know FTR, we do NOT live in igloos!

:nana:


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## LadyMarmalade (May 22, 2005)

My cousin moved to Canada and spent nearly 10 years convincing her father that she didn't live in an igloo or take a team of dogs with sled to do the grocery shopping (she lives on Vancouver Island which I hear is quite mild).


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## RiverSky (Jun 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caloli*
My cousin moved to Canada and spent nearly 10 years convincing her father that she didn't live in an igloo or take a team of dogs with sled to do the grocery shopping (she lives on Vancouver Island which I hear is quite mild).

As a Canadian living in the U.S. permanently, I have seriously had many, many people asking me what it was like to live in an igloo.







I thought that certainly they must be joking, but I'd look and see that, no, they were completely serious.

On Vancouver Island, it rarely even snows, maybe a few days a year in a cold year. There'd be no ice or snow to make an igloo with. Too funny!


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## nd_deadhead (Sep 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Frankly Speaking*
This is a hoot watching all of you Eskimos trying to defend that place for a guy that thinks being born this far north (Georgia) was a birth defect.







:

Yeah, which two week days are spring and which two are fall?

Frank

If we knew when they were coming, we could take the day off!! Oh, and they aren't usually consecutive.


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

Okay, I recently shared this gem in a TAO thread about Canada (and misperceptions thereof) and I think many of you will enjoy it, as well:

Great Canadian Wallpaper Festival


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## angela&avery (May 30, 2002)

:


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## Maple Leaf Mama (Jul 2, 2004)

ROFL...snow ants...LOL


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