# Toddler screaming for over an hour in a store



## Chicky2 (May 29, 2002)

Ok, so this happened a week ago and is still bothering me. I was at the grocery store, and it was about 8:30 p.m. As soon as I got my basket and started shopping, I heard a toddler start crying. Screaming. Heartwrenching to me. I saw the kid w/his parents a few minutes later. The dad was commenting on how he couldn't think because of his child. The mom looked frazzled and just kept putting things in the basket. I did not judge. I just thought maybe he'd asked for something and was told no and was reacting to that. Fast forward THIRTY minutes later and I could still hear him. By that time I was starting to get a headache and was really distracted from my own shopping tasks. Fast forward another 20 minutes and I got in line to check out. They were several lanes over and the child was still crying this awful heartwrenching cry. Just exhausted and sobbing. The parents still.had.not.picked.this.poor.child.up. Maybe it's wrong, but by that time I could not help but to judge, yk? Here is this child who is obviously miserable, and the parents are looking around at everyone looking at them and acting like THEY were the ones who deserved some sympathy. Everyone in line was talking about how they just couldn't believe the parents weren't tending to the childs needs. They didn't pick him up. They didn't try to distract him. One parent could have taken him outside and rocked him, sang to him, anything. I was just shaking and about to cry myself by the time I got out of there!

What, if anything, would you all have done in this situation? My kids were all w/their dad having ice cream. I guess I could have offered to help, but both of those parents were able-bodied, etc...


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## Learning_Mum (Jan 5, 2007)

Well, having a child who *has* thrown a major tantrum at the store because he couldn't have something he wanted, I would have felt sorry for them.

My DS does not want cuddles or hugs or to be picked up, if I try he will scream bloody murder. I may or may not be able to distract him, it really depends on how tired / hungry / thirsty etc he is.

I probably would have left way before then, because I wouldn't have wanted to subject everyone else in the store to the screaming and crying but maybe they really, really needed to do the shopping and had no choice but to go.

8.30pm does seem awfully late to take a small child to do a big grocery shop.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Two parents and the







people didn't have one parent take the kid out of the store while the other continued shopping? What was WRONG with those people?

One parent, I would've been sympathetic and assumed the kid would just freak out worse if picked up. Two parents, I would've been sympathetic for 5 minutes.

And after 10 minutes, I would've gone over and said something like "Hi, could one of you please take your kid outside?" Hoping that either they'd 1. do it. Or 2. get so mad about someone telling them what do to that I could relieve some frustration by yelling back at them.


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## spicyrock (Apr 11, 2009)

I'm sympathetic when I see parents in difficult situations with their children out in public. No matter what they do, someone will take issue with it.


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## lifeguard (May 12, 2008)

Can't say I'm sympathetic. With two sets of hands someone could have taken that poor child out of the store (regardless of the reason for the tears) to at the very least show some respect for everyone else in the store. Unacceptable in my books.


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## Krisis (May 29, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
And after 10 minutes, I would've gone over and said something like "Hi, could one of you please take your kid outside?" Hoping that either they'd 1. do it. Or 2. get so mad about someone telling them what do to that I could relieve some frustration by yelling back at them.

Seriously? SERIOUSLY?? My kid will scream for an hour, no problem. Doesn't matter what I do, he screams. It's extremely loud and I'm sure it bothers people in the store. It bothers me. But if I ever had someone come up to me and tell me to take my kid out of the store...










I think that is extremely rude.


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## bezark (Mar 17, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Krisis* 
Seriously? SERIOUSLY?? My kid will scream for an hour, no problem. Doesn't matter what I do, he screams. It's extremely loud and I'm sure it bothers people in the store. It bothers me. But if I ever had someone come up to me and tell me to take my kid out of the store...










I think that is extremely rude.

I agree. Yes, it breaks my heart to hear a wee one cry, but I would never suggest someone remove him/her from a public place, and I might have a few choice words for anyone who suggested it to me.


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## Chicky2 (May 29, 2002)

You know, I don't know that I could have asked them to leave, as I don't feel that is my territory. And I do understand that some kids freak out worse when picked up (I have a friend whose child is like that). But yeah, it seemed awfully late for them to have a small child out for something like a big grocery shop (and it was a really big, really full basket). And if it had only been one parent, I would have definitely been more sympathetic to the parent. But it was two parents. And a LONG time for a small child to be screaming and crying like that. If it had been me, and I'd been there alone, I would have had to leave. I would have had to come back later that night after my child was in bed and dh could watch him, or I would have come back in the morning after my child was rested/fed/whatever. They were obviously shopping for a party (this was July 3), as was I, but no party would have been worth leaving my child to scream for that long w/out at least doing *something* like leave and come back or one parent take the child somewhere else.


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## BellinghamCrunchie (Sep 7, 2005)

DD's friend (4 years old) with sensory issues skinned his knee at our house. He literally sobbed for 2 straight hours. There was nothing that could comfort him (and he had 4 adults trying). I'm sure the neighbors thought "someone should pick that child up!" or "what's wrong with those parents! Why don't they DO SOMETHING!!!"

Who knows what the child's history is, and whether the parents were handling it to the best of their abilities or were neglectful. I only know that I, as a stranger, have way less information than they do, and compassion for the whole family is rarely the wrong response.


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

I've seen that around here and it drives me insane. I don't care what you're doing, why your kid is crying, you need to remove them from the *public* area. The child is unhappy and you are driving everyone else crazy. Unless you're buying something vitally important like meds or diapers or something you need to leave and deal with whatever the problem is, even if dealing means going home and trying again tomorrow. I will leave my full cart (I tell a store employee if I have meltable food in there) rather than subject an entire store to my child screams no matter why she's screaming.


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## Ellen Griswold (Feb 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crystal_R* 
I've seen that around here and it drives me insane. I don't care what you're doing, why your kid is crying, you need to remove them from the *public* area. The child is unhappy and you are driving everyone else crazy. Unless you're buying something vitally important like meds or diapers or something you need to leave and deal with whatever the problem is, even if dealing means going home and trying again tomorrow. I will leave my full cart (I tell a store employee if I have meltable food in there) rather than subject an entire store to my child screams no matter why she's screaming.

I have done this.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Krisis* 
Seriously? SERIOUSLY?? My kid will scream for an hour, no problem. Doesn't matter what I do, he screams. It's extremely loud and I'm sure it bothers people in the store. It bothers me....

If you were there with your husband you would walk around the store letting your son scream instead of taking him out while your husband finished shopping? Would you mind explaining that line of thought? Because it makes no sense to me whatsoever except that maybe the parents were too frazzled to think of it, which is why I would've suggested it to them.

I already said I would just have sympathy for a parent alone.


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## mrspineau (Jan 15, 2008)

you know, at first after reading this, I thought "well, maybe the kid was having a tantrum and the parents were trying not to give in to the tantrum..." but, even if that were the case, or no, no matter WHAT the case, the child should have been removed from the store at the very least.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

It isn't fair to the CHILD to continue in the store instead of going outside to walk around.


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## verde (Feb 11, 2007)

On the one hand, I DO feel sorry for parents who having fussing children. Anytime I see a child throw a tantrum in the store I smile supportively at the parent and I have tried to distract a screaming child in a store. I try not to judge...on the other hand...

Quote:

Seriously? SERIOUSLY?? My kid will scream for an hour, no problem. Doesn't matter what I do, he screams. It's extremely loud and I'm sure it bothers people in the store. It bothers me. But if I ever had someone come up to me and tell me to take my kid out of the store...

I think that is extremely rude.
Seriously, I have to ask, would you SERIOUSLY ignore a crying child in a public place for a full hour?????? Would you SERIOUSLY allow a child to SCREAM for a full hour in a store?

I think it's rude AND CRUEL to force that experience on the child and everyone else in the store.


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## DianeMarie (Jul 7, 2009)

I was in Wal-Mart once and there was a child sitting in a shopping cart while his mother was wheeling him around the store, SCREAMING bloody murder at the top of his lungs. You could actually hear this kid screaming from across the store, that's how loud he was. Everybody in the store was looking at her, wondering why she didn't leave. This kid was OUT.OF.CONTROL. They finally left, after standing in a checkout line for about 15 minutes because it was crowded and busy. The mother was laughing--she thought it was funny!! . A kid giving the parent a hard time about something is one thing. For a kid to scream uncontrollably for an hour is a behavior problem that no one else but the parents should be exposed to---it certainly isn't the fault of other shoppers that this kid is out-of-control. To keep a screaming child in a store while you continue to shop is very disrespectful and inconsiderate to other people---and, I don't think there's anything wrong with someone confronting the parent about it. If the parent gets offended, then a rebuttal isn't too difficult---the ENTIRE STORE is offended that you have decided to continue with your shopping even though your kid is having a meltdown and you obviously have no control over the child or the situation!! It is not "rude". What is "RUDE" is letting your screaming child completely disrupt a store by their poor behavior, and the lack of any sort of consideration for other people by the parent. I'd love to see a person walk up to the parent and start screwming at the top of their lungs, and then follow them around the store doing that...........and see if it bothers the parent. LMAO!!!


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DianeMarie* 
I was in Wal-Mart once and there was a child sitting in a shopping cart while his mother was wheeling him around the store, SCREAMING bloody murder at the top of his lungs. You could actually hear this kid screaming from across the store, that's how loud he was. Everybody in the store was looking at her, wondering why she didn't leave. This kid was OUT.OF.CONTROL. They finally left, after standing in a checkout line for about 15 minutes because it was crowded and busy. The mother was laughing--she thought it was funny!! .

Well - I didn't laugh, but I have been the mum at Wal-Mart for a prolonged screaming fit.

My son had an ear infection and we were waiting for the prescription to be filled. My husband was away on business and my dad was having day surgery and my mum was with him.

It was really not fun.

ETA: Also, it was winter. And also, I had been up all night, so I don't claim my powers of distraction/soothing/coping were at their high point.


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## Famatigia (Jun 14, 2005)

I think we can also judge whats going on with other peoples children by their cries. I can make out an "I want that!" cry compared to a "heartwrenching" cry. It sounds like the OP noticed it was not just a tantrum, but that something was going on.

I experienced this at Wal Mart once. A lady had two toddlers and a very obvious newborn. The newborn cried hysterically while she walked through the store for about ten minutes. My mama instinct wanted to scoop him from his infant seat and soothe him desperately. I kept thinking she would pick him up at any moment, but she did not. She stood in line for ten more minutes while this teeny, tiny baby sobbed. She paid, and headed out the door while her newborn screamed. Even stopped to get the toddlers gumballs. There was NO excuse for that and it took all I had not to chew her a new a-hole. Seriously. She was obviously not in a hurry at all, but could not tend to a newborns needs. Ugh.


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## AmyB736 (Oct 21, 2006)

I am sure I would have done the same and ignored them and went on my way. But if I was passing by them I may have said something like "Aw, is it past his bedtime? I've been there with my kids and I've had to leave and come back later, at least there are 2 of you here so one could take him outside if you had to." And then smile warmly.


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## Sionainne (Jan 23, 2008)

This is why the I think parents should've taken the child out of the store, or that the store managers should've suggested it. The store stays open to make money. The sound of loud and continuous screaming generally repels and annoys people. It would make me want to leave earlier rather than linger and presumably buy more stuff. In Florida, the business license of a restaurant can be jeopardized if it allows any sort of hostile environment to persist without stepping in once alerted to it. I guess what I'm saying is that I doubt the store wishes to attract the type of shopper who can tolerate bloody murder screaming. Even if it did, there are some parts of the country where this sort of activity could result in the state penalizing the business or in theory revoking their license. Like if a grown man were screaming unintelligably for a long time at a restaurant, the staff have a duty to either ask him to leave or call the police.

I feel sorry for everyone involved. I have never heard continuous screaming for that long.


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## Chicky2 (May 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Famatigia* 
I think we can also judge whats going on with other peoples children by their cries. I can make out an "I want that!" cry compared to a "heartwrenching" cry. It sounds like the OP noticed it was not just a tantrum, but that something was going on.

I experienced this at Wal Mart once. A lady had two toddlers and a very obvious newborn. The newborn cried hysterically while she walked through the store for about ten minutes. My mama instinct wanted to scoop him from his infant seat and soothe him desperately. I kept thinking she would pick him up at any moment, but she did not. She stood in line for ten more minutes while this teeny, tiny baby sobbed. She paid, and headed out the door while her newborn screamed. Even stopped to get the toddlers gumballs. There was NO excuse for that and it took all I had not to chew her a new a-hole. Seriously. She was obviously not in a hurry at all, but could not tend to a newborns needs. Ugh.


Yes. I have 4 kids, from 20 all the way down to 2. I know there was something wrong--I know those cries. It just kept escalating and the poor child was so tired from the experience. It appeared to everyone around (because they all said so!) that he had just completely given up that his parents were there for him. Like that tiny baby who is left to CIO alone and learns not to trust that his parents will be there.

And I've heard the newborn thing, too. I can't stand it. It makes me hurt in my heart. One time my dh and I were Christmas shopping at Target. This woman was there w/her baby in a bucket/carseat and it was a TINY baby. My dh had our youngest in a sling, and he kept pacing in front of this lady, pointing to his sling and making cradling/pick up your baby motions w/his arms. She.just.kept.looking.at.a.stupid.watch while her baby cried pitifully all by herself.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

there are any number of good reasons why junior was crying, why the parents let it continue, why they were out that late...but yeah, after a while dad should have taken him out to the car or something.


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## Chicky2 (May 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyB736* 
I am sure I would have done the same and ignored them and went on my way. But if I was passing by them I may have said something like "Aw, is it past his bedtime? I've been there with my kids and I've had to leave and come back later, at least there are 2 of you here so one could take him outside if you had to." And then smile warmly.

Oh, I didn't just ignore it. That would have been impossible. I didn't offer to help, and stated why in a previous post, but I walked by several times and commented that it was late for such a little boy and is he tired? That sort of thing. They just grinned and shrugged their shoulders. I know they spoke English because I heard them talking to each other.


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## Belia (Dec 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BellinghamCrunchie* 
I only know that I, as a stranger, have way less information than they do, and compassion for the whole family is rarely the wrong response.









:


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## Krisis (May 29, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
If you were there with your husband you would walk around the store letting your son scream instead of taking him out while your husband finished shopping? Would you mind explaining that line of thought? Because it makes no sense to me whatsoever except that maybe the parents were too frazzled to think of it, which is why I would've suggested it to them.

I already said I would just have sympathy for a parent alone.

I can tell you if someone came up to me and "suggested" I take my son out of the store, I would not. I'm obstinate like that. I'm not saying that I wouldn't take my son out of the store if I were the parent in question, but that if someone came up to me and suggested I did I'd be pretty angry. I'm not saying I wouldn't do differently than the parents in question, I would. I'm just responding to the idea that you would tell someone else how to parent their child.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *verde* 
Seriously, I have to ask, would you SERIOUSLY ignore a crying child in a public place for a full hour?????? Would you SERIOUSLY allow a child to SCREAM for a full hour in a store?

I think it's rude AND CRUEL to force that experience on the child and everyone else in the store.

If it wasn't my child, you bet I would. I don't presume to tell people I see/hear/smell in a store how to parent, and I don't allow anyone to do that to me, either.

Do I think it's right for a parent to let their child scream in the store? Absolutely not. Do I think it's right for a parent to let their child "explore/run around" in a store? Absolutely not. That doesn't mean I'm going to go around being the Parenting Police. "Excuse me, your child is disturbing me and other shoppers. Please leave." No thank you, I'll just mind my own business.


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## kcstar (Mar 20, 2009)

DS has cried for two hours straight, when he was sick. Even with us taking turns holding him and trying to comfort him, he cried. There are also times/phases of crying when picking him up makes it worse.

Could the child have been teething? If so, it's possible they'd been crying all day, sometimes even with medication.

As for being out late, you really never know. There was a time when my parents worked three jobs each to keep the family afloat. In a situation where they're working multiple jobs like that, 8:30 pm might have been their only chance to go shopping.

For that matter, perhaps the child was special needs. I seem to recall reading articles about autistic children, that would scream in public.


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## Swan3 (Aug 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bezark* 
I agree. Yes, it breaks my heart to hear a wee one cry, but I would never suggest someone remove him/her from a public place, and I might have a few choice words for anyone who suggested it to me.

ITA on this.


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## Chicky2 (May 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kcstar* 
DS has cried for two hours straight, when he was sick. Even with us taking turns holding him and trying to comfort him, he cried. There are also times/phases of crying when picking him up makes it worse.

Could the child have been teething? If so, it's possible they'd been crying all day, sometimes even with medication.



But would you have taken your child out shopping when the child is sick? I sure wouldn't. And the child was a toddler, but an older one, who was likely not teething.

As for being special needs, I wouldn't know.


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## Swan3 (Aug 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crystal_R* 
I've seen that around here and it drives me insane. I don't care what you're doing, why your kid is crying, you need to remove them from the *public* area. The child is unhappy and you are driving everyone else crazy. Unless you're buying something vitally important like meds or diapers or something you need to leave and deal with whatever the problem is, even if dealing means going home and trying again tomorrow. I will leave my full cart (I tell a store employee if I have meltable food in there) rather than subject an entire store to my child screams no matter why she's screaming.

Aw man. Until recently I didn't have a vehicle and coming back the next day (with horribly swollen feet and pregnant belly) just wasn't an option due to the many appts I have. I was given dirty looks for my daughter crying as I waited in line to pay (for about 15 agonizing minutes). I've also had DD tantrum after 1.5 hours on a bus...no freaking WAY I'd be getting off that bus to appease someone else, that IS our way home. I'd of course be comforting her but my concern would be in attending to HER needs, not that of some stranger who can't stand to have a few minutes of their life upset by a crying toddler. That's life! Kids exist, they cry, and public places are just that!!! I hear people yakking TMI on their cellphones, stinking up public places, being drunk and somehow it's always the crying kid that gets the attitude.

If anyone had said something to me I would have gone hormonal on them.


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## 1growingsprout (Nov 14, 2005)

2 adults and 1 screaming child, obviously one of the adults needed to take the child outside or to the car etc... *if* i happened to be shopping in that store and continued to hear the screaming, i probably would have gone to customer service and let them know I was leaving and why. My grocery bills are routinely over $250... and my grocery store knows my... like it or not I do not have to shop and listen to JR scream his lungs out...

As a consumer I have the right to shop in peace. If i bring my kids to the store I make sure they are well behaved, sometimes they to go the kids playcenter (our store has free daycare for kids ages 2-8 during certain hours) if my kids start getting whiney WE LEAVE, end of story, any store, any time, any place. baby, toddler, older kid, bad manners, bad attitude, we all pack up and leave...


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## waiflywaif (Oct 17, 2005)

Personally I'm just surprised it took over an hour to grocery shop! Make a list, move faster!


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## KimL (May 16, 2009)

i don't know what you could have done. I had that toddler when my ds was one. He's 6 now and there are times when that's STILL me in that store. Some high needs kids can WIN the crying game. I often found my self seriuosly HAVING to finally go to a store and then having already been totally "touched out" by this child who THEN tantrums constantly while in the store... It honestly makes parents (or me anyway) go almost into shock after a while. which drags out the entire process of finding what you need in the store. You cannot muster up another bit of emotion to pick said child up... no one ever did a thing to ease that suffering and I'm not sure anyone can... ahhh high needs kids- I thank god mine is so bright and lovable!


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## Heidi74 (Jan 21, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DianeMarie* 
They finally left, after standing in a checkout line for about 15 minutes because it was crowded and busy...

In cases like this, I would think it would be both courteous and wise on the part of other shoppers to allow that parent to cut in line....just to get the child out of there. If it's two parents in the store, the situation is different, but I can sympathise with one parent alone with a child. We've sometimes been in long checkout lines and DS has gotten fussy and bored...and there's not much you can do to console a child when you're just standing there.

I certainly don't think it should be a "right" to cut in line if a child is screaming, but I'm sure most parents would really appreciate it...and having been there myself I would be the first to offer if I was standing ahead of such a person.


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## BroodyWoodsgal (Jan 30, 2008)

If I see one parent in the store, alone with a screaming child of any age...they have my complete sympathy....how do I know what the circumstances are? Maybe they don't have a car and have been driven there and HAVE to complete their shopping right then...perhaps the child is ill, perhaps the parent is ill? I wouldn't judge and if I saw them actively struggling with something that I could help with, I would offer my help.

I have to admit to having seen a parent with a child who was screaming in the store and the parent didn't seem concerned, just kind of lazed around, ignoring the screams...and that makes me so flustered...but again, how do I know that the woman isn't ill, stressed out or just completely wiped out...maybe that is the only time she can complete that shopping and maybe that kid has been screaming all. day. long. You know? There are many cases in which I think everyone should show compassion to a parent with a "screamer" on their hands. My child has never thrown a fit in the store...but should she in the future, if I am able, I will take her outside to soothe her, leaving my cart at the front desk....if I'm unable to do this, I will shop as fast as I can and get out...not even so much for other customers asmuch as in an effort to get my darling out of the store.....which is a terrible place to be in tears.

HOWEVER....TWO parents with a "screamer"....ummm, no. I'd be so mad inside...again, not that I have to hear the noise, so much as that the store is an AWFUL place to fall apart like that. 8:30pm??? THat kid was probably exhausted...completely overwhelmed and agitated by the glaring overhead lighting of the store and even more agitated at having to sit up in that hard metal seat. All the child wanted to do, most likely, was get the hell out of there and go lie down in his seat in the car! I wish one of the parents would take the child away, so he could be more relaxed.....who doesn't know the feeling of being tired or sick and having to be in the store at an hour of the day when you really wish you could be headed to bed?? Again, I don't know why the parents were there...could have been the only time they could have gone...maybe they were coming back from some place....but one of the parents should have taken the child out of there!

I don't mind hearing a kid screaming....I mind it, because I hate hearing a child upset...but I don't get mad about the sound interupting my shopping so much....like somebody else said....kids exist...they make noise...sometimes really cute noises, sometimes ear shattering noises...this is life! I would never, ever presume to know enough about what was going on, to think it was my business to tell the parents anything about how they should be handling that situation. Period. It's rude as heck and really none of my concern in the first place.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

830 pm means nothing. I was out shopping with my own kids until that time last night. Mine go to bed at 10. There is no magic *ding ding ding* that makes kids exhausted by 8pm.


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## LuxPerpetua (Dec 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
830 pm means nothing. I was out shopping with my own kids until that time last night. Mine go to bed at 10. There is no magic *ding ding ding* that makes kids exhausted by 8pm.

This is true for us, too. Our dd regularly goes to bed between 10 and 11 p.m. and she is 3.5.


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## QueenOfTheMeadow (Mar 25, 2005)

I would have given the parents sympathy. I've been that mom. My son has special needs and at that age could have done something like that. When he'd really melt down like that. We could not engage him during those times, because, believe it or not, he would just get more worked up. He'd get violent if we tried to pick him up or rock him, etc. Sometimes you just don't know the situation, and due to my experiences, I try to give parents the benefit of the doubt.


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## BroodyWoodsgal (Jan 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
830 pm means nothing. I was out shopping with my own kids until that time last night. Mine go to bed at 10. There is no magic *ding ding ding* that makes kids exhausted by 8pm.

Well, mine *ding ding ding*'s at around 6:30-7pm, and has got to start moving in the direction of bed about 7:30-8pm, I know a lot of kids stay up later and a lot of kids don't.

The reason I think the child might have been tired, was not based on the time alone...it was the time of day PLUS the fact that he was crying uncontrollably for more than an hour..which, still doesn't mean he was necessarily tired.......but if you had to put money on it...8:30pm, plus crying uncontrollably, don't the two put together indicate a *higher* possibility that the kid is one of those who starts to get tired around that time of night?

No one was suggesting that people who take their kids out that late are crazy...if it works, it works....in the case of the child in question...something is not working, that's all. Maybe a bad day, maybe a rough phase for the kid....maybe out of the house too late. I guess we'll never know!


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## pinksprklybarefoot (Jan 18, 2007)

I try not to judge other parents too harshly - I just don't have enough information. Who knows what is going on in their lives that necessitates a large grocery shop at 8:30 PM? Heck, who knows if they were even both parents of the child? It could have been the child's mom and her brother (who is not good with kids), and he is taking her grocery shopping because she doesn't have a car. And maybe she doesn't have a car because her husband was just killed in a car accident and their car was totaled. In that case, maybe they thought it would be better to just power through the shopping, kid screaming or not, because the uncle isn't willing to take the child outside, but also doesn't know what groceries to buy. And if things are this bad, your screaming child is just one more thing on top of a big pile of crap that has just happened.

Likely? No. But it could have been any number of things like this. We just don't know the stories and lives of other people. Seeing someone parent at the grocery store is like watching reality TV - you are seeing it out of context and edited from the rest of their life. Sometimes in public I look like a much better mom than I am, other times I look like a terrible one. It just depends on the situation. So I try to cut others some slack.


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## barefootmama0709 (Jun 25, 2009)

Since you don't know the child's history, you have no way of knowing if they were handling the situation appropriately or not. As a previous poster stated, it's entirely possible that the child had a disability and couldn't be comforted. Maybe the parents needed to shop together because it's too difficult for one to handle the child alone. Maybe he would have run out into the parking lot the moment he was brought outside. Maybe they didn't have a car to wait in because they walked/took the bus etc. There are many scenarios that mean the parents were handling the situation the best they could-DH and I are pretty low-income and I have had to shop with a screaming child because I couldn't afford to waste the gas it took to drive to the store and back. I'm sorry you had to listen to that, but I think it's very important to remember that things are not always as they seem.


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## felix23 (Nov 7, 2006)

Was that me you saw?!







Here is the story of my child screaming for an hour at Walmart while we waited for them to finish changing the oil/tires on my car. We tried to leave her with my mom, but she wanted to go. She wasn't tired or hungry, she was just in a really, really bad mood that day. (that is why we wanted to leave her at home) It started off with crying about toys and junk food, and ended with her laying in the bottom of the buggy (yes another horrible parenting thing I did) crying. If we picked her up she would scratch and kick us. We couldn't go the car or leave because it was up on the lift, and it was raining outside, so no walking around outdoors. When my dh tried to carry her to look and the fish tanks she just screamed and cried for me. When I tried to take her to look at books while dh finished getting groceries, she just screamed at cried for him. So eventually we finished our shopping while looking frazzled and she layed in the buggy and cried.

And thank God I only met sympathetic people and no one who told me to take my kid and leave.


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## Cativari (Mar 26, 2007)

I think no matter what the parents did someone would have something bad to say about it. They stay in the store as they did and they get "why don't you do something like take the kid outside, let him down from the cart, brib him ect," If they took the kid out of the store someone would come over and ask why the kid is screaming and that they need to keep him quiet or go home, or even worse someone would call the cops or CPS because someone's letting their kid scream in the car or parking lot. They brib the kid next time he will expect it to keep quiet creating a bigger problem. they let the kid out of the cart and he runs around the parents will deal with at least one person telling them that they shouldn't let the kid run or roam.

No matter what someone would find issue with it. I think they were handling it to the best of their ability that night. The parents were probablly tired from working all day and though that the family needed a little time together
since they hadn't been together all day/week. I think we (the general we) need to be a little more understanding and less assuming about thing we don't know about.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

I get always giving the benefit of the doubt, sympathizing, all that and I would agree but there are 2 big factors here- there were two parents and it was for an hour.

I also have a screamer/tantrum thrower. This has happened to us except that there is no way we let it fly. If DH is with us he takes them out. This also has happened when one of them got hurt. We take them out. Forget the other shoppers (though really it doesn't hurt to be courteous) what about the poor kid? All the bright lights, the people around, the hustle and bustle... it has to be overstimulating at least a little. Take them out or to the side (I say this because weather isn't always going to allow) and allow them to calm down and have a word. It's that simple.

Again if it was just mom or dad or whatever yeah it's not so simple but with two parents it makes little sense why something wasn't done. I'm sure someone could think up something but it seems like that'd be the exception.


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## felix23 (Nov 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *magstphil* 
I get always giving the benefit of the doubt, sympathizing, all that and I would agree but there are 2 big factors here- there were two parents and it was for an hour.

I also have a screamer/tantrum thrower. This has happened to us except that there is no way we let it fly. If DH is with us he takes them out. This also has happened when one of them got hurt. We take them out. Forget the other shoppers (though really it doesn't hurt to be courteous) what about the poor kid? All the bright lights, the people around, the hustle and bustle... it has to be overstimulating at least a little. Take them out or to the side (I say this because weather isn't always going to allow) and allow them to calm down and have a word. It's that simple.

Again if it was just mom or dad or whatever yeah it's not so simple but with two parents it makes little sense why something wasn't done. I'm sure someone could think up something but it seems like that'd be the exception.


We tried taking her to the side, but it just made her scream worse. The only way to get her to stop crying would be to a) leave, which we couldn't do or b) buy her whatever she wanted, which we can't afford and even if we could we wouldn't do it.

It really is not just that simple.


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## QueenOfTheMeadow (Mar 25, 2005)

Please remember that

Quote:

MDC serves an online community of parents, families, and parent, child and family advocates considering, learning, practicing, and advocating attachment parenting and natural family living. Our discussions concern the real world of mothering and are first and foremost, for support, information, and community.


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## Bug-a-Boo's Mama (Jan 15, 2008)

First, it would have to have been an emergency for me to take DS out at 8:30 to go grocery shopping.

Okay so assuming we are in a parallel universe, if DH and I were out grocery shopping w/DS that late (for DS) I would have picked him up comforted him and then passed him to DH to have him walk around w/him. DS would not cry for an hour after being told no, but I also would have shopped as fast as possible at that point.

I would never leave DS sitting in the cart and let him cry for an hour, even if I was by myself. I would have picked him up and comforted him.

Sounds like that DC might have been sick? Maybe the mother didn't want to leave the DC home alone w/the DF because it kind of seems like him might not have been too reliable. Maybe they only have one car and this was the only time for them to go to the store and they needed to get all they needed. Of course while making these excuses, the mother also never picked the child up either. So, who knows.


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## Gentle~Mommy :) (Apr 21, 2009)

If I try to pick my toddler up during a meltdown, he will arch his back and fight me, kick and scream even louder. I probably would have left the store as no to disturb the other customers, but I would have definitely left him in the cart and not picked him up. LOL


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## Amylcd (Jun 16, 2005)

Quote:

The parents still.had.not.picked.this.poor.child.up
Ok, Unless you were watching them for the entire hour - You really have NO idea if they picked him up or not. You are assuming, and making it more dramatic. Not every child stops crying when they are picked up.


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## Magella (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Famatigia* 
I think we can also judge whats going on with other peoples children by their cries. I can make out an "I want that!" cry compared to a "heartwrenching" cry.

Not all kids have different cries, though. One of mine had the same cry for _everything_, and it was the "someone is ripping my arms off" kind of cry. I used to think something was wrong with me, as a mother, because I couldn't tell the difference between my child's cries like all the books said mothers could. It wasn't until I had my second child, who did have different cries, that I realized that I wasn't a bad mother and that my first child just had one cry only.

She's 9 now, and she still basically only has one cry (though it has mellowed somewhat). It's still a "something tragic has just happened" cry. Very out of proportion to most of the things she's crying about. Freaks out people who don't know her well, they get very concerned.

So, yeah, I don't think we can judge what's going on with a stranger's child by the sound of that child's cry. I don't think that for one second.


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## Amylcd (Jun 16, 2005)

Quote:

So, yeah, I don't think we can judge what's going on with a stranger's child by the sound of that child's cry. I don't think that for one second.
I agree. If someone would hear my 5 year old cry, they would assume she was in the worst pain you could imagine. She has the same cry for everything.


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## purplemoon (Sep 24, 2008)

Picking up my oldest during a meltdown is a big no-no. Unless you want it to get much much worse of course. My youngest is comforted by being held, the oldest? Apparently torture. Parents know what works for their kids and parents do their best. I hold no judgement.


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## Chicky2 (May 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waiflywaif* 
Personally I'm just surprised it took over an hour to grocery shop! Make a list, move faster!










Not sure if that was directed towards me or not, but I certainly have a right to shop as long as I wish.







Especially if it is a rare treat for me to get to do it *by myself* instead of trying to hurry before my own toddler has a meltdown and disturbs the entire store. Of course I would not allow my child to do that either, as I would have left.

I certainly understand that it is but a brief view into the lives of these parents. That still does not excuse the fact that they let it happen for an hour when ALOT of people would have taken the child out of the store.


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## Chicky2 (May 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amylcd* 
Ok, Unless you were watching them for the entire hour - You really have NO idea if they picked him up or not. You are assuming, and making it more dramatic. Not every child stops crying when they are picked up.

Agreed. I still wish they'd have taken him out of the store.


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## tjjazzy (Jan 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Krisis* 
Seriously? SERIOUSLY?? My kid will scream for an hour, no problem. Doesn't matter what I do, he screams. It's extremely loud and I'm sure it bothers people in the store. It bothers me. But if I ever had someone come up to me and tell me to take my kid out of the store...










I think that is extremely rude.

i have to agree too (and my ds1 doesn't do this) that yelling at the parents is rude. how will yelling at the parents solve anything? it will just make the situation worse and yelling in front of the child is no worse than doing nothing to stop _his_ yelling.


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## jjawm (Jun 17, 2007)

My dh had the police called on him once for holding our screaming dd when he walked her to the park (I was at my nearby doctor's office). She was screaming bloody murder enough for someone to call the cops, because she didn't want dad, she wanted mom. The police assumed she was being kidnapped.

When there is a screaming child, I don't judge, unless I see someone beating or yelling at them, or unless I have more information. You just never know what was going on.


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## felix23 (Nov 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chicky2* 
Agreed. I still wish they'd have taken him out of the store.

Maybe he is like my dd and taking him out of the store would have only made him scream and cry worse.


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## BroodyWoodsgal (Jan 30, 2008)

Yes, I think I have to agree...I mean, even outside the realm of parenting and whether it's nice or necessary to ask the parents to leave the store...proper etiquette would suggest that it is always rude to approach a stranger in that manner and ask them to leave...really, for any reason.

I think if you should feel SO strongly compelled that you would WANT to do that...the proper thing to do, is approach a manager or sales associate and alert them to the behavior which is troubling you. After all...the people with the screaming child don't own the place...but you don't, either. Store policy, which would pertain to what activities are not allowed in the store, is not set by YOU...it can be influenced by you...if you share with a manager a compelling arguement...but really, store policy is store policy and the store should decide whether someone is causing enough of a disturbance that they should be asked to leave the store.

All THAT being said...I want to repeat: I think, in a situation like this, with so many unknowns, so many possibilities for why and how this situation was taking place...the best course of action...use a little compassion and imagine yourself, somehow, in the shoes of the other parent.

When I am faced with a situation like that...I try to imagine being in that parents place. I try to view the situation with unjudging eyes, and cut the parents some slack...even give a small smile and perhaps an "I've been there, crummy day huh?" if it's appropriate...all in the hopes that someday, when my perfect angel of a kid, is totally melting down in the middle of the grocery store and I feel all these judging eyes staring at me and feel surrounded by reinforcement of the idea that somehow I'm failing as a parent...that perhaps some kindly mama will give a small smile and say "I've been there, crummy day, huh?" because at it's bare bones, sometimes parenting is just about making it, we've all had days like that.


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## AutumnAir (Jun 10, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Magella* 
Not all kids have different cries, though. One of mine had the same cry for _everything_, and it was the "someone is ripping my arms off" kind of cry. I used to think something was wrong with me, as a mother, because I couldn't tell the difference between my child's cries like all the books said mothers could. It wasn't until I had my second child, who did have different cries, that I realized that I wasn't a bad mother and that my first child just had one cry only.

She's 9 now, and she still basically only has one cry (though it has mellowed somewhat). It's still a "something tragic has just happened" cry. Very out of proportion to most of the things she's crying about. Freaks out people who don't know her well, they get very concerned.

So, yeah, I don't think we can judge what's going on with a stranger's child by the sound of that child's cry. I don't think that for one second.

Me too! It's good to hear I'm not the only one who can't identify all these different crys.

WRT OP - I can certainly see how the situation would have been upsetting for you. I get quite stressed out when I hear other people's kids crying too.

But I do try to give people the benefit of the doubt as far as possible. PPs have suggested a couple of possible reasons why the parents may have stayed with the kid screaming. I can also imagine parents being told to ignore their child's screaming/ tantruming by many 'parenting experts' like their pediatrician, their own parents, books & magazines. I've read a couple of articles that suggest that if you don't ignore a screaming/tantruming child and continue doing exactly what you were doing in stony silence you will end up with a monster child on your hands. If I didn't have other resources I might conceivably buy into it..


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## purplemoon (Sep 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AverysMomma* 
Yes, I think I have to agree...I mean, even outside the realm of parenting and whether it's nice or necessary to ask the parents to leave the store...proper etiquette would suggest that it is always rude to approach a stranger in that manner and ask them to leave...really, for any reason.

I think if you should feel SO strongly compelled that you would WANT to do that...the proper thing to do, is approach a manager or sales associate and alert them to the behavior which is troubling you. After all...the people with the screaming child don't own the place...but you don't, either. Store policy, which would pertain to what activities are not allowed in the store, is not set by YOU...it can be influenced by you...if you share with a manager a compelling arguement...but really, store policy is store policy and the store should decide whether someone is causing enough of a disturbance that they should be asked to leave the store.

All THAT being said...I want to repeat: I think, in a situation like this, with so many unknowns, so many possibilities for why and how this situation was taking place...the best course of action...use a little compassion and imagine yourself, somehow, in the shoes of the other parent.

When I am faced with a situation like that...I try to imagine being in that parents place. I try to view the situation with unjudging eyes, and cut the parents some slack...even give a small smile and perhaps an "I've been there, crummy day huh?" if it's appropriate...all in the hopes that someday, when my perfect angel of a kid, is totally melting down in the middle of the grocery store and I feel all these judging eyes staring at me and feel surrounded by reinforcement of the idea that somehow I'm failing as a parent...that perhaps some kindly mama will give a small smile and say "I've been there, crummy day, huh?" because at it's bare bones, sometimes parenting is just about making it, we've all had days like that.

Well said!


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## Jennifer Z (Sep 15, 2002)

I have been that parent, and I can tell you that nasty looks don't do a dang thing to help in the situation. If you are frustrated listening to a child cry/meltdown/tantrum, just be thankful you don't have to deal with it every day, all the time. Not all disabilities are visible and assuming the child is just ill behaved and the parents suck leads to a lot of cruetly from the self rightous and snobby parents who have no idea what our lives are like.

I have gone shopping with dh with my son screaming, and my dh has gotten frustrated because it is hard to think with the screams, I have had to just keep going because it wasn't like going home and doing it another time would have been any more successful, nor would taking him outside (although that would been much more dangerous), and we needed to get the shopping done. Talking to him would simply escalate it, and somebody would have been injured if we attempted to pick him up. My husband was there to help because there was a chance he would begin to injure himself or escape the cart and tear everything off the shelves. Such is life some days.

*Your "right" to shop in quiet does not outweigh the actual, true rights of people who are disabled (and their caregivers) to participate in life and shop without being criticized, degraded and hassled. For those of you who would actually have the audacity to complain to the store and "take your business elsewhere", you are acting like the people who refused to eat someplace because they "allowed" a black person to eat there. It is truly disgusting.*


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## Ruthie's momma (May 2, 2008)

I agree that continuing to shop that late in the evening with an obviously upset child is absurd. All of us have had a child experience a melt down in public. But, few of us wouldn't have removed the child from the situation, if needed.

One or both of the parents could have/should have left the store _for the child's sake_. Nevermind that the child's behavior was so obviously upsetting to other people. If the child does have some sort of disorder, the parents should be more considerate of _their child's needs_. My brother had special needs and my parents made sure to take extra care in planning our outings so as to best accomodate his limitations.

IMHO, these parent's did show a lack of concern for not only their child but for the other shoppers. None of us are an island unto ourselves and we should think about other people.


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## Jennifer Z (Sep 15, 2002)

Maybe they are shopping later BECAUSE their child has a hard time dealing with public places. What _you_ (general you) consider "late at night" might very well be the middle of their day because it is a 24 hour world out there now. It is _absurd_ to assume that they are up "late" just because you are. When dh isn't working a 9-5 job, we still choose to shop late at night when we have the opportunity because it is so much easier on both my son and my husband.

I think it is silly to assume that we have the luxury of just saying "well, we will try again later". Maybe that was the best behavior they could expect under the circumstances and having food in the house was getting to a critical level.

And, maybe they are meeting their child's needs in the long run by desensitizing them to public places.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

I also think everyone is leaping to the assumption that these were the child's parents and/or that one of the them was capable of taking the child outside. What if the "dad" were disabled such that he couldn't deal with crying child outside and also couldn't shop unaccompanied? Or maybe the woman here was under the extreme control of the guy and he wasn't willing to leave with child because she would run away... Or she wasn't willing to have him alone with child because he would kidnap the kid... OK, yes, I realize these are extremely unlikely scenarios. Point being, its impossible for us to tell exactly what the situation was. Maybe they were just clueless parents. But maybe not. And I, for one, would rather assume that there was a good explanation for what they were doing and that they were doing the best they could. Its really a much nicer world when you assume the best of people.


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## QueenOfTheMeadow (Mar 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthie's momma* 
I agree that continuing to shop that late in the evening with an obviously upset child is absurd. All of us have had a child experience a melt down in public. But, few of us wouldn't have removed the child from the situation, if needed.

One or both of the parents could have/should have left the store _for the child's sake_. Nevermind that the child's behavior was so obviously upsetting to other people. If the child does have some sort of disorder, the parents should be more considerate of _their child's needs_. My brother had special needs and my parents made sure to take extra care in planning our outings so as to best accomodate his limitations.

IMHO, these parent's did show a lack of concern for not only their child but for the other shoppers. None of us are an island unto ourselves and we should think about other people.

The fact of the matter is no matter how much you may plan, things do go wrong, and there are often extentuating circumstances involved. The OP said the parents seemed embarrassed, so I'd assume that there was a reason that they couldn't leave at the moment.

I've had that want to crawl into a hole feeling when one of my children has behaved in a not so socially acceptable way, and trust me, if I could have, I would have.


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## newbymom05 (Aug 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chicky2* 
Yes. I have 4 kids, from 20 all the way down to 2. I know there was something wrong--I know those cries. It just kept escalating and the poor child was so tired from the experience. It appeared to everyone around (because they all said so!) that he had just completely given up that his parents were there for him. Like that tiny baby who is left to CIO alone and learns not to trust that his parents will be there.

And I've heard the newborn thing, too. I can't stand it. It makes me hurt in my heart. One time my dh and I were Christmas shopping at Target. This woman was there w/her baby in a bucket/carseat and it was a TINY baby. My dh had our youngest in a sling, and he kept pacing in front of this lady, pointing to his sling and making cradling/pick up your baby motions w/his arms. She.just.kept.looking.at.a.stupid.watch while her baby cried pitifully all by herself.

I haven't read the whole thread b/c I don't think I can--I don't even like to *read* about infants/toddlers uncontrollably crying while their parents willfully ignore them. I just wanted to respond to say







to your husband. In those situations I get horribly upset but never say anything. This thread has really made me think. I usually think I"m being too thin skinned, but now I see that I'm by far the only one.It really is rude to subject other shoppers to it, esp in the OP's situation where there was another parent.

**And of course I realize that sometimes there's no way out, but in the OP and other situations mentioned, the child should have either been taken out, comforted or both.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *felix23* 
We tried taking her to the side, but it just made her scream worse. The only way to get her to stop crying would be to a) leave, which we couldn't do or b) buy her whatever she wanted, which we can't afford and even if we could we wouldn't do it.

It really is not just that simple.

I know I PM'd you but I just wanted to clarify for everyone else I wasn't meaning it's that simple to help a toddler calm down and stop crying. Oh how I wish! Sorry for the confusion.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Some situations are just crap and you're damned if you do damned if you don't- both "you" meaning the parent and "you" meaning the bystander.


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## felix23 (Nov 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newbymom05* 
I haven't read the whole thread b/c I don't think I can--I don't even like to *read* about infants/toddlers uncontrollably crying while their parents willfully ignore them. I just wanted to respond to say







to your husband. In those situations I get horribly upset but never say anything. This thread has really made me think. I usually think I"m being too thin skinned, but now I see that I'm by far the only one.It really is rude to subject other shoppers to it, esp in the OP's situation where there was another parent.

**And of course I realize that sometimes there's no way out, but in the OP and other situations mentioned, the child should have either been taken out, comforted or both.

But we don't really know the situation in the OP. We don't know that the parents could just leave, maybe they don't have a car and were waiting on someone to pick them up. We don't know that it would have made things better to take the child out, with my dd1 it would only make her cry harder. We don't know that they didn't try to comfort him, maybe they did and it only made the situation worse, so they just let him be. We don't know that these parents weren't doing the best they could.

In regards to crying infants, dd1 was a preemie who only weighed 10 lbs at a year old. She also cried all the time and had sensory issues that caused her to freak out if we held her close. So I got plenty of evil looks and "advice" on how to care for my newborn, when in reality she was close to a year old and picking her up would have only made her scream more. If someone had walked in front of me with their happy baby in a sling pointing and trying to get me to pick up my baby, I think I would have just broken down cried right then and there. That first year was depressing enough without strangers trying to making me feel like an even worse mother.


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## mjg013 (Jul 29, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BellinghamCrunchie* 
DD's friend (4 years old) with sensory issues skinned his knee at our house. He literally sobbed for 2 straight hours. There was nothing that could comfort him (and he had 4 adults trying). I'm sure the neighbors thought "someone should pick that child up!" or "what's wrong with those parents! Why don't they DO SOMETHING!!!"

Who knows what the child's history is, and whether the parents were handling it to the best of their abilities or were neglectful. I only know that I, as a stranger, have way less information than they do, and compassion for the whole family is rarely the wrong response.

I have 2 kids with sensory issues and I can relate. Although if both dh and I were somewhere and that happened one of us would remove the child from the store althought that would entail literally dragging them out kicking and screaming. It can be quite intimidating trying to drag a 2 year old out of a store while he is screaming NO, NO, NO, NO over and over again inconsolably. When Tea was younger if we didn't just learn to tune her out and keep going, we'd never have gone anywhere or gotten anything done. There were many times we did sit down at a table and order food only to have a total meltdown for completely unknown reasons prompt us to just convert our order to go and get out of there. I learned then that sometimes things are not as they seem and I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt when it comes to misbehaving children.


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## Cinder (Feb 4, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Krisis* 
Seriously? SERIOUSLY?? My kid will scream for an hour, no problem. Doesn't matter what I do, he screams. It's extremely loud and I'm sure it bothers people in the store. It bothers me. But if I ever had someone come up to me and tell me to take my kid out of the store...










I think that is extremely rude.

I don't think it's any ruder than subjecting people to the screaming for an hour! Kincaid (who is autistic and has severe sensory issues, so we've definitely dealt with that) screamed for the first 6 months of his life, so I just didn't take him anywhere for 6 months. After that he'd get completely upset over hearing another baby cry and would be inconsolable...in those situations, I just left and did my shopping later when that occurred. It's just not ok to make other shoppers put up with your kids screaming for that long!


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## mommahhh (Oct 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kcstar* 
Could the child have been teething? If so, it's possible they'd been crying all day, sometimes even with medication.

As for being out late, you really never know. There was a time when my parents worked three jobs each to keep the family afloat. In a situation where they're working multiple jobs like that, 8:30 pm might have been their only chance to go shopping.

For that matter, perhaps the child was special needs. I seem to recall reading articles about autistic children, that would scream in public.

Really, none of this matters. Who cares WHY the child was screaming (I'm sure there was a reason, and no one else in the store could control that reason). What matters is that the parents allowed it to continue.

I'm not surprised at the attitude of a lot of people in this thread. I run into people like this a lot and I can't get over what I consider to be a huge sense of entitlement many people have.







If there are 2 of you, there is NO REASON the entire store should be subjected to your kid screaming on and on. I've experienced this in restaurants even! How self-absorbed to think you have the right to ruin other people's shopping/dining/whatever. I am the type of person who will actually get a throbbing headache from LOUD SCREAMING, and you bet I would have sweetly suggested they get their kid out of there.


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## purplemoon (Sep 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommahhh* 
Really, none of this matters. Who cares WHY the child was screaming (I'm sure there was a reason, and no one else in the store could control that reason). What matters is that the parents allowed it to continue.

I'm not surprised at the attitude of a lot of people in this thread. I run into people like this a lot and I can't get over what I consider to be a huge sense of entitlement many people have.







If there are 2 of you, there is NO REASON the entire store should be subjected to your kid screaming on and on. I've experienced this in restaurants even! How self-absorbed to think you have the right to ruin other people's shopping/dining/whatever. I am the type of person who will actually get a throbbing headache from LOUD SCREAMING, and you bet I would have sweetly suggested they get their kid out of there.

I get the entitlement issue (I have seen it as I mouthed "pick baby up, pick baby up, pick baby up" when baby screamed and then stopped as mom finally picked baby up). However, YOU don't KNOW.

People have laid out plausible scenarios. While maybe mom and dad were dorks about it, the reality is they could have been in a situation that we can't begin to understand. Why not give people the benefit of the doubt? Does it hurt to do it? I know for me, it makes me a more peaceful person. It makes it easier to hear, to know that MOM KNOWS BEST.

She isn't devoid of feeling or compassion. I can't trump her with my big fat maternal feelings card because we all got the same one once babe was born. I can't trump her with my "I always have well behaved children or we leave!" because I have flown on airplanes, needed groceries while seriously ill, survived through warfare of parenting. I did it and survived because I had compassion and not rolling eyes. I give back that compassion.


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## Krisis (May 29, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cinder* 
I don't think it's any ruder than subjecting people to the screaming for an hour! Kincaid (who is autistic and has severe sensory issues, so we've definitely dealt with that) screamed for the first 6 months of his life, so I just didn't take him anywhere for 6 months. After that he'd get completely upset over hearing another baby cry and would be inconsolable...in those situations, I just left and did my shopping later when that occurred. It's just not ok to make other shoppers put up with your kids screaming for that long!

Wow, if I wasn't able to take Toby anywhere for 6 months, especially the first 6, I would have literally killed myself. You are a much more patient woman than I!

As I've stated in this thread before, I don't agree with how the parents in question handled the situation, but I don't think it's right for someone to walk up to another person and suggest that they parent differently. If I had been in the store with this screaming baby I would have felt sorry for the parents, not walk up to them and demand they leave the store.

What's really accomplished by criticizing another person's parenting, especially when only a single situation has been witnessed? Honestly, I don't know that threads like these really help anyone.


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## felix23 (Nov 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cinder* 
I don't think it's any ruder than subjecting people to the screaming for an hour! Kincaid (who is autistic and has severe sensory issues, so we've definitely dealt with that) screamed for the first 6 months of his life, so I just didn't take him anywhere for 6 months. After that he'd get completely upset over hearing another baby cry and would be inconsolable...in those situations, I just left and did my shopping later when that occurred. It's just not ok to make other shoppers put up with your kids screaming for that long!

Well, count yourself very lucky that you have the support so that you didn't have to leave the house for the first six months. I had a child that screamed for the first year and it was impossible for me to keep her at home all the time for a year. We live in the country, a good drive from the store, so there was no leaving and coming back another time, we couldn't afford the gas. Crying children used to annnoy me, but now I just have compassion for both the parents and the child.


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## mommahhh (Oct 17, 2004)

I am not meaning to criticize anyone's parenting. I am criticizing their lack of respect for other people around them. This has happened many times in my life so it is definitely a pet peeve.







By the way, my kiddo has not always been an angel in public either. But I can't imagine thinking I had the right to subject other people to her tantrum (it's bad enough I have to be subjected to them







)

I know there are times (such as on an airplane or when you NEED a prescription and the child is howling) when there is no choice. Then I have plenty of compassion. But you can pretty much tell when the parents are just of the attitude of "_well, I want to be here and too bad if my kid is screaming_". That is what makes me crazy. That sense of entitlement that their personal wants are more important than all the other people in the environment.

Once I took a good friend who had recently had another miscarriage to a cute little coffee shop to talk. Another woman sat there drinking a coffee and calmly eating a bagel while her 1 year old screamed bloody murder. About 10 minutes worth of screaming. It was agitating my friend, which in turn was agitating me. We ended up having to leave, which is NOT fair. Yes, she definitely should have left....her child was disruptive. I can't think of one single reason why she couldn't have left. Even if she were meeting someone there, she could have stepped out of the shop. And if the child would become more upset by leaving, really that is her problem, not the rest of the people in the shop.

Hopefully what this thread will accomplish is that someone out there who lets their child scream in public on and on will read it and realize that it might be affecting other people around them.


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## mrs joe bubby (Mar 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthie's momma* 
I agree that continuing to shop that late in the evening with an obviously upset child is absurd. All of us have had a child experience a melt down in public. But, few of us wouldn't have removed the child from the situation, if needed.

One or both of the parents could have/should have left the store _for the child's sake_. Nevermind that the child's behavior was so obviously upsetting to other people. If the child does have some sort of disorder, the parents should be more considerate of _their child's needs_. My brother had special needs and my parents made sure to take extra care in planning our outings so as to best accomodate his limitations.

IMHO, these parent's did show a lack of concern for not only their child but for the other shoppers. None of us are an island unto ourselves and we should think about other people.


I agree so much.

I have extreme noise sensitives as well as asperger's myself. If I were the OP in this scenario, while I wouldn't have approached the parents in any way, I would have been one of those awful people who would have had to leave my cart and take my business elsewhere. I simply wouldn't have been able to tolerate the screaming without having a serious, meltdown that might have caused me to not be able to leave my house again for awhile. It wouldn't have been as simple as that I could have just run into the next store and completed my shopping.







: I'm reading many stories that were come up with up about how these were possibly not the parents and were both disabled and could not carry the child, someone had just died, all while the disabled child is teething and has the flu, etc etc etc. But no one seems to come up with anything about how much others in the store could be affected by listening to the poor kid screaming in the store for an hour. No matter the child's situation, please think of others and perhaps that there is more to _their_ story too.







Maybe there is more going on than them just being rude or "disgusting".


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## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennifer Z* 
I have been that parent, and I can tell you that nasty looks don't do a dang thing to help in the situation. If you are frustrated listening to a child cry/meltdown/tantrum, just be thankful you don't have to deal with it every day, all the time. Not all disabilities are visible and assuming the child is just ill behaved and the parents suck leads to a lot of cruetly from the self rightous and snobby parents who have no idea what our lives are like.

I have gone shopping with dh with my son screaming, and my dh has gotten frustrated because it is hard to think with the screams, I have had to just keep going because it wasn't like going home and doing it another time would have been any more successful, nor would taking him outside (although that would been much more dangerous), and we needed to get the shopping done. Talking to him would simply escalate it, and somebody would have been injured if we attempted to pick him up. My husband was there to help because there was a chance he would begin to injure himself or escape the cart and tear everything off the shelves. Such is life some days.

Your "right" to shop in quiet does not outweigh the actual, true rights of people who are disabled (and their caregivers) to participate in life and shop without being criticized, degraded and hassled. For those of you who would actually have the audacity to complain to the store and "take your business elsewhere", you are acting like the people who refused to eat someplace because they "allowed" a black person to eat there. It is truly disgusting.

I agreed with other posts in this thread, but picked this one to quote because of the anger behind it. I'm feeling that same anger.

My oldest child has autism and sensory issues. I did not know that when he was an infant and a toddler. I was severely sleep-deprived (often to the point of psychosis) for the first few YEARS of his life because the child never slept. He cried, arched his back, was never comfortable, couldn't stay still, was a difficult nurser, and generally made my life a living hell. There was no such thing as an easy outing with him. But, we had to get out of the house. I had to get out of the house simply so I wouldn't lose my mind and kill us all some days.

If you have a child who has the occasional tantrum due to teething or tiredness or not getting what he wants, then good for you. My second is like that. It's incredibly easy raising a kid like that. You can come back to the store another day. You can hand the kid over to your partner. You know it's a temporary situation.

But if you have a child like my eldest, whose behaviors made no sense, who drove you to the point of madness on a constant basis, who never slept and never seemed to be happy except when doing dangerous things... then maybe you can understand the frustration that many of us on this thread are feeling at the judgmental posts about this couple.

Maybe the child described in the OP doesn't have special needs. Maybe the parents had other options. But, maybe things aren't always as they seem, and your judgment towards them is truly unacceptable and harmful.

I was blamed for my eldest child's behaviors. For years, I heard about how I was such a bad parent, how I should discipline him more, how I was screwing up so badly. I lost faith in myself. I am still plagued with self-doubt years later, even though I know now that all those judgmental people were wrong. Those words and attitudes brought significant harm to me and my relationship with my child. I will not forgive those who chose to judge rather than show compassion and understanding. I will sit in judgment of all of you who glare and shake your heads and mumble cruel things about other parents who deserve more care and kindness. You judge me when you judge those other parents who aren't performing to your standards. You judge me when you determine that you know better how to deal with a child that you don't even know. You judge me when you consider yourselves superior because your child never acts in such a manner, but if he did, you know just how you'd deal with it. You judge me. So, I sit here and virtually glare at you in return. I shake my head at your cruelty and thoughtlessness. I mumble about your lack of compassion and understanding. And I promise myself to be extra kind to the next parents I encounter whose heads are spinning and hands are full. Because I'd rather live in a world where we genuinely care about each other than one in which we hurt each other in order to feel better about ourselves.


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## BroodyWoodsgal (Jan 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lotusdebi* 
I agreed with other posts in this thread, but picked this one to quote because of the anger behind it. I'm feeling that same anger.

My oldest child has autism and sensory issues. I did not know that when he was an infant and a toddler. I was severely sleep-deprived (often to the point of psychosis) for the first few YEARS of his life because the child never slept. He cried, arched his back, was never comfortable, couldn't stay still, was a difficult nurser, and generally made my life a living hell. There was no such thing as an easy outing with him. But, we had to get out of the house. I had to get out of the house simply so I wouldn't lose my mind and kill us all some days.

If you have a child who has the occasional tantrum due to teething or tiredness or not getting what he wants, then good for you. My second is like that. It's incredibly easy raising a kid like that. You can come back to the store another day. You can hand the kid over to your partner. You know it's a temporary situation.

But if you have a child like my eldest, whose behaviors made no sense, who drove you to the point of madness on a constant basis, who never slept and never seemed to be happy except when doing dangerous things... then maybe you can understand the frustration that many of us on this thread are feeling at the judgmental posts about this couple.

Maybe the child described in the OP doesn't have special needs. Maybe the parents had other options. But, maybe things aren't always as they seem, and your judgment towards them is truly unacceptable and harmful.

I was blamed for my eldest child's behaviors. For years, I heard about how I was such a bad parent, how I should discipline him more, how I was screwing up so badly. I lost faith in myself. I am still plagued with self-doubt years later, even though I know now that all those judgmental people were wrong. Those words and attitudes brought significant harm to me and my relationship with my child. I will not forgive those who chose to judge rather than show compassion and understanding. I will sit in judgment of all of you who glare and shake your heads and mumble cruel things about other parents who deserve more care and kindness. You judge me when you judge those other parents who aren't performing to your standards. You judge me when you determine that you know better how to deal with a child that you don't even know. You judge me when you consider yourselves superior because your child never acts in such a manner, but if he did, you know just how you'd deal with it. You judge me. So, I sit here and virtually glare at you in return. I shake my head at your cruelty and thoughtlessness. I mumble about your lack of compassion and understanding. And I promise myself to be extra kind to the next parents I encounter whose heads are spinning and hands are full. Because I'd rather live in a world where we genuinely care about each other than one in which we hurt each other in order to feel better about ourselves.

^This. (and mama....you are a warrior,







...I'm always glad to meet mamas like you.)

I want to say, that the above post is what I meant, when I said that I always try to give an encouraging smile and understanding to parents in this position...because you REALLY DON'T know what the true story is.

Sometimes I get mad, just burned up....because it's obvious the parent thinks it's funny, doesn't care..whatever...but then I think "What if this woman is REALLY embarassed and THAT is why she's laughing it off?" - and I jsut mind my own business.

The bottom line is...it doesn't really matter what the situation was...it doesn't really matter what the hidden reasons or non-reasons were behind this annoyance to other shoppers....kindness, it what really matters.

Kindness gets you a long way, I've learned. Kindness, in the face of a situation where you really don't even HAVE to be kind...where most people would say that you have a right to be UNKIND...gets you even further, at least in my book.

If you can't be understanding with people like this, on the off chance that there is a real, legit reason for their behavior....at least pity them, for their apparent lack of social awareness, which would cause any of us, if we could, to take a crying kid outside.

We are parents here. Everyone remembers the preparent days, where you saw a kid melt down in the store and thought "not my kids, when I have kids they will not behave like that" - then you have kids and all sorts of things you didn't understand, judged, etc are thrown in your face and sometimes you have to laugh at ever having judged those parents. And you can see, in the faces of people with no kids, who don't get it...those same judgements and you have to laugh it off, because you think to yourself "well, you don't have kids, those of us with kids, get it" - so...BE that. Be the "those of us with kids" and recognize that sometimes it's not clear to everyone else what's going on. Trust that what your kids are capable of doing to you (making you look like a complete jerk in public) other peoples kids are capable of doing to them.

Kindness can never be wasted. Best case scenario...you give a small boost of confidence to a mama who feels like running out into traffic over what her kid is doing and is so embarassed and just wants to sink into the floor....WORST case scenario...the mama is really ebing a jerk and just doesn't care...and YOU practiced tolerance and put POSITIVE vibes out in to the world anyway!

How can you lose, when you choose kindness, compassion and accept that, as a mere mortal human...you CAN'T see all reasons for all things??


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## KirstenMary (Jun 1, 2004)

I just removed my 3 y/o from a store the other day, so I was in a familiar situation. Fortunately, I was with my husband, and he was able to go about our business, and I was able to remove Devil Dillan to the comfort of our mini-van. We are blessed, though, with a lot of comforts that others might not have.

What if that family didn't have a car and took the bus to the store?

What if the situation had occurred in the middle of winter?

What if the situation had involved a single parent who had no food in the house and who had no other time to shop?

What if this is actually normal behavior for the child and because of diverse schedules, the shopping trip is the only time the family gets to spend together - thus the late time frame (the parents are aware of the screaming and its effect on other people).

Sometimes, judgement isn't just wrong - it's actually pretty crappy because there is just no way we can know what is going on in other people's lives. And if someone ever came up to me and screaming Devil Dillan and asked me to leave the store, they would get one heck of an earful.


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## Snuzzmom (Feb 6, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *felix23* 
Crying children used to annnoy me, but now I just have compassion for both the parents and the child.

Same here. I felt differently about a lot of things like this before I had a child of my own.

Also, I have a friend who has a gorgeous son with severe autism. You would never know there was a thing wrong with him from just looking, and I've witnessed her getting some horrible looks when out with him in public. She is used to it... it really made me mad.

You NEVER know what a person's situation is. Ever.

I have taken my child out of the grocery store before. I have also driven partway to the store, realized that my child was in a horrible mood, and turned the car around. But as people have pointed out, I have the resources (ie, time, reasonable distance to store) to do that.


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## SilverWillow (Dec 23, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bug-a-Boo's Mama* 
First, it would have to have been an emergency for me to take DS out at 8:30 to go grocery shopping.

Okay so assuming we are in a parallel universe, if DH and I were out grocery shopping w/DS that late (for DS) I would have picked him up comforted him and then passed him to DH to have him walk around w/him. DS would not cry for an hour after being told no, but I also would have shopped as fast as possible at that point.

I would never leave DS sitting in the cart and let him cry for an hour, even if I was by myself. I would have picked him up and comforted him.

Sounds like that DC might have been sick? Maybe the mother didn't want to leave the DC home alone w/the DF because it kind of seems like him might not have been too reliable. Maybe they only have one car and this was the only time for them to go to the store and they needed to get all they needed. Of course while making these excuses, the mother also never picked the child up either. So, who knows.









your 8:30 would ahve been my 11:30 to 1:30. some kids have sleep issues, even disorders. some PARENTS have sleep disorders. some parents work third shift and their kids' schedules are screwed up. it's nice for you that things are ideal in your world for shopping, but that's not the case for most of us.

trying to go anywhere near my daughter, or to speak to her in anything more than short, repetitive phrases, during a "tantrum" in a store would result in doubling both the length and volume of the episode, not to mention me getting hit or kicked in the head. this is when she was little; at eight we occasionally still have loud crying freakouts in the store. I have to look straight ahead and take her by the hand, get done what I need to get done or it's worse. I'm sure I look like I'm ignoring her. I'm not. I have just learned what works over the years. know what? NOTHING works! I do not have the joy of being able to comfort my child when she is injured, upset or angry like most moms do. It is part of the mothering experience I don't get. yeah, it's devastating. so quit judging us, ok? be glad you don't know what it's like to have those days. a sympathetic smile looks better on you (general you, not the quoted poster. I'm going off on all the general meanies in Evil-Mart) anyway than that nasty look.


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## rainyday (Apr 28, 2006)

Frankly, who really cares what the child's history is or why he was screaming? There were TWO able-bodied parents there. There is absolutely no excuse for that kind of pure rudeness and lack of consideration for anyone (including the screaming child). Was the child special needs? Maybe. Who cares, though? I mean, really, TWO parents and one of them couldn't take him out of the store? Did they need something urgently? Maybe. Then grab a few things and get out of the store and stop making everyone, including your own child miserable. I really, highly doubt that one parent can't handle the child alone because I really, highly doubt that both parents are with that child all day long. In most families, someone has to um, go to the bathroom occasionally or go off to one of those pesky jobs that provide money for hour-long shopping expeditions. I have compassion in all sorts of situations but not in this one. It's rude. End of story.


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## *Aimee* (Jan 8, 2007)

After reading this thread I have a hard time believing we're all mothers here! I mean really, do you think this family was enjoying themselves? That this was a pleasant experience?

I haven't ever been in this situation. I'm lucky that my boys have never freaked out in a store. If they did, I guess I'd leave, but then again, I'm by myself so I may have stayed until I was done. I just think as mothers, it's pretty easy for us to all put ourselves in their position.

I admit to feeling brokenhearted when I see a baby crying and the mother doesn't have a sling or some way to hold and comfort him. Or the other day at target I say a maybe 4 week old baby screaming while his parents shopped and I felt very sad for the baby and sad for the parents that they didn't know it's okay to pick up the baby.

We're never going to know exactly what this family's situation was. We can sit here and guess all day but we won't know. It makes some of us (apparently) feel better to judge and others to offer understanding. So much for it takes a village, huh?


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## rainyday (Apr 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AverysMomma* 

The bottom line is...it doesn't really matter what the situation was...it doesn't really matter what the hidden reasons or non-reasons were behind this annoyance to other shoppers....kindness, it what really matters.

What about kindness to every other shopper or employee in that store?

For those of you with autistic children, I know what it's like, at least from the standpoint of a sibling. My sister was autistic. I grew up with it. I have a huge amount of compassion for parents who have a screaming child in public. But I'm still having an awfully hard time imagining a scenario other than rudeness where two parents would continue to leisurely shop for an hour with a distressed, screaming child (autistic or not).


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rainyday* 
Frankly, who really cares what the child's history is or why he was screaming? There were TWO able-bodied parents there. There is absolutely no excuse for that kind of pure rudeness and lack of consideration for anyone (including the screaming child). Was the child special needs? Maybe. Who cares, though? I mean, really, TWO parents and one of them couldn't take him out of the store? Did they need something urgently? Maybe. Then grab a few things and get out of the store and stop making everyone, including your own child miserable. I really, highly doubt that one parent can't handle the child alone because I really, highly doubt that both parents are with that child all day long. In most families, someone has to um, go to the bathroom occasionally or go off to one of those pesky jobs that provide money for hour-long shopping expeditions. I have compassion in all sorts of situations but not in this one. It's rude. End of story.

Really? How about this one?

"The phone rang at 9 in the morning. It was DH's mum. His dad had a stroke. We threw a few basic necessities in the car and drove two hours. But he passed before we got there. We spent the afternoon dealing with all the horrible mechanics of death. We dropped DH's mum back to her house but realized we didn't have anything our toddler would eat there, so we went to the store. It was surreal and we wandered around in the unfamiliar store... DS freaked out but neither of us had the energy to really cope."

Ok, that probably wasn't the case here but seriously - you *just. don't. know.* what is going on with other people's lives.


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## SilverWillow (Dec 23, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lotusdebi* 
I agreed with other posts in this thread, but picked this one to quote because of the anger behind it. I'm feeling that same anger.

My oldest child has autism and sensory issues. I did not know that when he was an infant and a toddler. I was severely sleep-deprived (often to the point of psychosis) for the first few YEARS of his life because the child never slept. He cried, arched his back, was never comfortable, couldn't stay still, was a difficult nurser, and generally made my life a living hell. There was no such thing as an easy outing with him. But, we had to get out of the house. I had to get out of the house simply so I wouldn't lose my mind and kill us all some days.

Yes. Other than not ever knowing for sure my kiddo is on the spectrum, this was my life! I feel you, mama! your post made me burst into tears, remembering what this was like.

after the age of 12 months my daughter also stopped breathing, turned blue and had seizures at random - went from happy and playing (or cranky and having that tantrum that other shoppers find so annoying, apparently), whatever) to blue, then falling over blue and not breathing with a slow or stopped heartbeat, having a full-on seizure and looking dead for about a minute, to waking up and being groggy. when I was in the store with her? watching her EVERY SECOND terrified it was about to happen. sometimes it did happen, right in the aisle of the Kmart or whatever. all I could do was wait and pray she came back to life again this time. I had nobody to help me and obviously nobody was willing to babysit her, even if I hadn't been too afraid she would die while I was gone to leave her.

I'm sorry, I obviously need to step out of this thread. it occurs to me that that's probably too disturbing for "normal" people. sigh. see, this is why I got so isolated that I became near suicidal when DD was little. People just wanted to sit on their high horses and tell me how much I stunk as a parent, and to give me dirty looks in the store because my child was so "spoiled." BLAH.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rainyday* 
Frankly, who really cares what the child's history is or why he was screaming? There were TWO able-bodied parents there. There is absolutely no excuse for that kind of pure rudeness and lack of consideration for anyone (including the screaming child).

Wow -- you can tell that the adults were both able-bodied based on the OP? I can't, because I know that some disabilities are hidden. You can tell that the two adults were the child's parents based on the OP? I can't, because I know that not all adults near a child are related to said child.

Yes, it would have been considerate if one of those adults had taken the child out of the store for the benefit of other shoppers. But there may have been a reason that this could not happen and we aren't going to know what it is.


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## felix23 (Nov 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rainyday* 
Frankly, who really cares what the child's history is or why he was screaming? There were TWO able-bodied parents there. There is absolutely no excuse for that kind of pure rudeness and lack of consideration for anyone (including the screaming child). Was the child special needs? Maybe. Who cares, though? I mean, really, TWO parents and one of them couldn't take him out of the store? Did they need something urgently? Maybe. Then grab a few things and get out of the store and stop making everyone, including your own child miserable. I really, highly doubt that one parent can't handle the child alone because I really, highly doubt that both parents are with that child all day long. In most families, someone has to um, go to the bathroom occasionally or go off to one of those pesky jobs that provide money for hour-long shopping expeditions. I have compassion in all sorts of situations but not in this one. It's rude. End of story.

Did you read my post? Seriously, if one of us tried to take her over to a corner to calm her down, it would only make it worse. I'm not going to make my dd even more upset by seperating her from one of her parents. If both of us are around, we have to be right with her and she gets very upset. This is a child who has a total melt-down every.single.day when her dad leaves for work. It is not that we can't handle her on our own, it is just that by doing so (in the store situation) it would make her even miserable.

I used to feel just like you do and I was one of those people who glared and thought evil things about parents shopping with crying children. but after Lilly, all I feel is compassion, because I know what it is like to be in that situation.


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## Chicky2 (May 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mrs joe bubby* 
I agree so much.

I have extreme noise sensitives as well as asperger's myself. If I were the OP in this scenario, while I wouldn't have approached the parents in any way, I would have been one of those awful people who would have had to leave my cart and take my business elsewhere. I simply wouldn't have been able to tolerate the screaming without having a serious, meltdown that might have caused me to not be able to leave my house again for awhile. It wouldn't have been as simple as that I could have just run into the next store and completed my shopping.







: I'm reading many stories that were come up with up about how these were possibly not the parents and were both disabled and could not carry the child, someone had just died, all while the disabled child is teething and has the flu, etc etc etc. But no one seems to come up with anything about how much others in the store could be affected by listening to the poor kid screaming in the store for an hour. No matter the child's situation, please think of others and perhaps that there is more to _their_ story too.







Maybe there is more going on than them just being rude or "disgusting".


Quote:


Originally Posted by *rainyday* 
Frankly, who really cares what the child's history is or why he was screaming? There were TWO able-bodied parents there. There is absolutely no excuse for that kind of pure rudeness and lack of consideration for anyone (including the screaming child). Was the child special needs? Maybe. Who cares, though? I mean, really, TWO parents and one of them couldn't take him out of the store? Did they need something urgently? Maybe. Then grab a few things and get out of the store and stop making everyone, including your own child miserable. I really, highly doubt that one parent can't handle the child alone because I really, highly doubt that both parents are with that child all day long. In most families, someone has to um, go to the bathroom occasionally or go off to one of those pesky jobs that provide money for hour-long shopping expeditions. I have compassion in all sorts of situations but not in this one. It's rude. End of story.

Yes to both of these.

I also get horrible headaches from loud screaming/flashing lights/all kinds of things. I also have had a VERY high-needs child, and a child w/Aspergers. Not like I don't understand high needs kids or how hard it is to deal with, AND the looks that one can get because of it. I also get prolonged visual migraine auras that prevent me from driving (happened too many times while driving and almost wrecked w/my kids in the car), so for long distances (like to town since I live in the country), my dh or 20 yo dd drives. We all have our stories. We all have our own issues to deal with. My high needs child was that way until she was 3. My Asperger's kid is MUCH more needy now (and at times can do very embarassing things) than she was when younger. When my high needs toddler screamed in a store or restaraunt and we couldn't calm her down, we left. Period. It was very common for us to go out to eat and my dh, who is a very fast eater, would scarf down his meal and take her for a walk while I got to eat in peace. Respect and consideration for others is what we give and what we expect in return. Of course we understand that kids are kids, and sometimes they freak out. Of course I don't think that means the child is necessarily misbehaving, just merely being a child. Of course we have compassion for those situations. That's why I didn't rudely walk up to the parents and ask them to leave. I know how I would react should someone have done that to me. They didn't have compassion or respect for the other shoppers or for their child,

I too hope that someone reads this and realizes that their actions (and the actions of their children) can and do affect others.


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## SilverWillow (Dec 23, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chicky2* 
Yes to both of these.

I also get horrible headaches from loud screaming/flashing lights/all kinds of things. I also have had a VERY high-needs child, and a child w/Aspergers. Not like I don't understand high needs kids or how hard it is to deal with, AND the looks that one can get because of it. I also get prolonged visual migraine auras that prevent me from driving (happened too many times while driving and almost wrecked w/my kids in the car), so for long distances (like to town since I live in the country), my dh or 20 yo dd drives. We all have our stories. We all have our own issues to deal with. My high needs child was that way until she was 3. My Asperger's kid is MUCH more needy now (and at times can do very embarassing things) than she was when younger. When my high needs toddler screamed in a store or restaraunt and we couldn't calm her down, we left. Period. It was very common for us to go out to eat and my dh, who is a very fast eater, would scarf down his meal and take her for a walk while I got to eat in peace. Respect and consideration for others is what we give and what we expect in return. Of course we understand that kids are kids, and sometimes they freak out. Of course I don't think that means the child is necessarily misbehaving, just merely being a child. Of course we have compassion for those situations. That's why I didn't rudely walk up to the parents and ask them to leave. I know how I would react should someone have done that to me. They didn't have compassion or respect for the other shoppers or for their child,

I too hope that someone reads this and realizes that their actions (and the actions of their children) can and do affect others.

Much respect for your personal situation and the needs of your children -- but you do acknowledge that other people sometimes have issues where they simply cannot leave? for example, the single mom who has no food in the house, just got her food stamps today and HAS to be in the store getting dinner or her kid will go hungry? sometimes you can't leave. we are all going to inconvenience each other or even ruin each others' shopping experiences, or give each other sensory issues or panic attacks when we are doing our best to meet our own children's needs. I'm not saying I didn't leave a store with my kid when I thought I could get away with it. But surely you wouldn't expect a single mom in that situation, or a family who has to take the bus to the store in the snow etc. to leave every single time? I know my case is unusual, but at the time I'd have inflicted anything on anyone to avoid my DD having a blue spell. I almost never left the house, so if I was in a store with her I HAD to be there. leaving, not really a viable option but I tried.

again, much respect to you and all you are dealing with on a daily basis. I think we probably aren;t very far apart in our views, really. I guess I just want people to leave open the option that sometimes, a crying kid in the store is just a fact of life and the parents may not be able to do a darn thing about it. sucks, but true.


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## felix23 (Nov 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chicky2* 
Yes to both of these.

I also get horrible headaches from loud screaming/flashing lights/all kinds of things. I also have had a VERY high-needs child, and a child w/Aspergers. Not like I don't understand high needs kids or how hard it is to deal with, AND the looks that one can get because of it. I also get prolonged visual migraine auras that prevent me from driving (happened too many times while driving and almost wrecked w/my kids in the car), so for long distances (like to town since I live in the country), my dh or 20 yo dd drives. We all have our stories. We all have our own issues to deal with. My high needs child was that way until she was 3. My Asperger's kid is MUCH more needy now (and at times can do very embarassing things) than she was when younger. When my high needs toddler screamed in a store or restaraunt and we couldn't calm her down, we left. Period. It was very common for us to go out to eat and my dh, who is a very fast eater, would scarf down his meal and take her for a walk while I got to eat in peace. Respect and consideration for others is what we give and what we expect in return. Of course we understand that kids are kids, and sometimes they freak out. Of course I don't think that means the child is necessarily misbehaving, just merely being a child. Of course we have compassion for those situations. That's why I didn't rudely walk up to the parents and ask them to leave. I know how I would react should someone have done that to me. They didn't have compassion or respect for the other shoppers or for their child,

I too hope that someone reads this and realizes that their actions (and the actions of their children) can and do affect others.

Yes, I do realize that my crying child makes other people unhappy, but in my situation, what the heck was I supposed to do?! We couldn't leave, we couldn't take her outside, we had to get food, and one of us taking her to the side one only mean that she would scream louder as she tried to run back to the other parent. Short of buying her every item she pointed to, nothing was going to make her stop.

I've also been the person with what looks like a screaming newborn (in reality just a tiny, tiny older baby) looking at my stupid watch while feeling mortified and like a horrible mother. It may have looked like I was ignoring my child but in my mind I was debating on picking her up and making her scream more or leaving her alone and letting all the people around me think I'm a neglectful mother. My dh was working two jobs, I had to do basically everything by myself. I got the glares, I got the people trying to get me to pick her up, and then I got the people who acted like I was lying when I informed them that she was 8 months old and picking her up only made it worse. That first year was hell on earth.


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## Magella (Apr 5, 2004)

I don't think I'm entitled to shop anywhere without hearing children cry. All sorts of things happen when I'm shopping that bother me. I've found myself quite disturbed by adults who are unaccompanied by kids. The fact is, they all have as much right to be there as I do. It's a grocery store. It's loud. All sorts of people are there. Things happen. I'm not entitled to a peacefully zen shopping environment every time.

I don't enjoy hearing kids cry, who does? I'd be willing to bet the people _most_ disturbed by it were those parents.

Reading this has made me so sad.


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## Chicky2 (May 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SilverWillow* 
Much respect for your personal situation and the needs of your children -- but you do acknowledge that other people sometimes have issues where they simply cannot leave? for example, the single mom who has no food in the house, just got her food stamps today and HAS to be in the store getting dinner or her kid will go hungry? sometimes you can't leave. we are all going to inconvenience each other or even ruin each others' shopping experiences, or give each other sensory issues or panic attacks when we are doing our best to meet our own children's needs. I'm not saying I didn't leave a store with my kid when I thought I could get away with it. But surely you wouldn't expect a single mom in that situation, or a family who has to take the bus to the store in the snow etc. to leave every single time? I know my case is unusual, but at the time I'd have inflicted anything on anyone to avoid my DD having a blue spell. I almost never left the house, so if I was in a store with her I HAD to be there. leaving, not really a viable option but I tried.

again, much respect to you and all you are dealing with on a daily basis. I think we probably aren;t very far apart in our views, really. I guess I just want people to leave open the option that sometimes, a crying kid in the store is just a fact of life and the parents may not be able to do a darn thing about it. sucks, but true.


Of course I acknowledge that sometimes there are situations where you have to be there. I'm not a rude or horrible person. I guess this is one of those 'you'd have to have been there' situations. I was not posting about a situation such as you mentioned. The parents were very well-dressed, the wife dripping w/gold and diamonds, very expensive bag/shoes, the man also dressed to a t (and no I'm not saying that they couldn't have just gotten laid off and were on food stamps, but really....), very stylish hair, nails all done, etc... There is not a bus line in my small town. It was not raining, nor does it often snow here. So really, does it make me such a bad person for seeing how they were dressed, what types of foods and products they were buying (obvious party foods/supplies), and then getting peeved that they were so inconsiderate? And she was obviously not a single mom, or at least alone. There was a perfectly able-bodied man there with her. *That's* why I was upset and it bothered me so much that I even posted here.

I didn't post some of these details in my OP because I just didn't think it would make any difference, and probably still doesn't. I am very glad to see that at least some mamas see where I was coming from. I'm sorry to those of you who my being bothered by this got offended. That was not the intention of the OP.


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## purplemoon (Sep 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Magella* 
I don't think I'm entitled to shop anywhere without hearing children cry. All sorts of things happen when I'm shopping that bother me. I've found myself quite disturbed by adults who are unaccompanied by kids. The fact is, they all have as much right to be there as I do. It's a grocery store. It's loud. All sorts of people are there. Things happen. I'm not entitled to a peacefully zen shopping environment every time.

I don't enjoy hearing kids cry, who does? I'd be willing to bet the people _most_ disturbed by it were those parents.

Reading this has made me so sad.

Word.

Adults bother me more mostly. The cellphone screaming (talking) constantly so I can't hear myself think, the cart bumper, the person who should have bathed, whatever. Shopping was and has never been my spa day.

And the clarification by the OP is probably that these people were jerks, but from so many posts and so much misery from moms about leaving the house, I think we all have learned a bit more compassion in general.

That's a good thing.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

The judgment on this thread.







:

These thread always make me laugh. You got a poster venting about whatever not necessarily saying the parents are evil or horrible or need to be shot but being judgmental, yes. We're human, it's what we do. But then you get the _real_ judgment- "how dare you judge! Why I think I am going to sit here and judge you harshly for judging." and that is different how?.... And it often gets blown out of proportion as if this mom said in her OP these people should have their child ripped away from them.

Quote:

After reading this thread I have a hard time believing we're all mothers here!










We can't just leave it at "I disagree. This could be a different way to look at it _____"? Why the personal comments about the posters who are suspicious/annoyed by the behavior in the OP? We can't just give the benefit of the doubt in both cases and look on both sides?

I dunno I just think maybe we should all take a step back and really think about the people involved on all sides.


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## SilverWillow (Dec 23, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chicky2* 
Of course I acknowledge that sometimes there are situations where you have to be there. I'm not a rude or horrible person. I guess this is one of those 'you'd have to have been there' situations. I was not posting about a situation such as you mentioned. The parents were very well-dressed, the wife dripping w/gold and diamonds, very expensive bag/shoes, the man also dressed to a t (and no I'm not saying that they couldn't have just gotten laid off and were on food stamps, but really....), very stylish hair, nails all done, etc... There is not a bus line in my small town. It was not raining, nor does it often snow here. So really, does it make me such a bad person for seeing how they were dressed, what types of foods and products they were buying (obvious party foods/supplies), and then getting peeved that they were so inconsiderate? And she was obviously not a single mom, or at least alone. There was a perfectly able-bodied man there with her. *That's* why I was upset and it bothered me so much that I even posted here.

totally NOT trying to argue with you. and maybe they were just weenies.







buuuut... brainstorming it, for all we know you were watching a woman who is a domestic violence victim shopping for some stupid party her husband was making her host for his work, and dealing with the kid would have resulted in violence toward her or the kid later. The other day in Some-Random-Mart I overheard a man reprimanding his wife for SPEAKING WHEN NOT SPOKEN TO. he wasn't kidding. scary! acting nonchalant in public is often a required part of covering up domestic violence in order for a woman to keep herself and her children safe. it may not be as unlikely as one would think in the situation you saw -- DV is horrifyingly common in all class levels.

some people do ignore their kids, but you really, truly never know what's up just by looking.


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## rainyday (Apr 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *felix23* 
Did you read my post? Seriously, if one of us tried to take her over to a corner to calm her down, it would only make it worse. I'm not going to make my dd even more upset by seperating her from one of her parents. If both of us are around, we have to be right with her and she gets very upset. This is a child who has a total melt-down every.single.day when her dad leaves for work. It is not that we can't handle her on our own, it is just that by doing so (in the store situation) it would make her even miserable.

I used to feel just like you do and I was one of those people who glared and thought evil things about parents shopping with crying children. but after Lilly, all I feel is compassion, because I know what it is like to be in that situation.

Who said anything about taking her to a corner? I said take her outside. And I still stand by it. If I saw you and your partner wandering the store for at least an hour while your child screamed hysterically, and you both seemed like normal, functioning adults holding a conversation (like the OP heard), then, yep, I'd judge. And I rarely judge people with screaming kids in stores. I only get judgemental when I see someone being incredibly inconsiderate of either their child or every single other person in that store in really rare circumstances like the OP's. Parent by herself with screaming kid? Nope, I don't judge that (unless I see parent mocking the child or something similar). Parent who seems zoned out pushing screaming child through store without interacting with it? I don't judge that. But with two adults who are functional enough to walk and talk normally, I can't imagine the scenario where they both must be in that store together with the screaming child for an hour. For 20 minutes? Sure, I can come up with scenarios for that one - but an entire hour doesn't say to me that the parents were rushing to get some essentials or even rushing to get the week's groceries.


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## rainyday (Apr 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chicky2* 
Of course I acknowledge that sometimes there are situations where you have to be there. I'm not a rude or horrible person. I guess this is one of those 'you'd have to have been there' situations. I was not posting about a situation such as you mentioned. The parents were very well-dressed, the wife dripping w/gold and diamonds, very expensive bag/shoes, the man also dressed to a t (and no I'm not saying that they couldn't have just gotten laid off and were on food stamps, but really....), very stylish hair, nails all done, etc... There is not a bus line in my small town. It was not raining, nor does it often snow here. So really, does it make me such a bad person for seeing how they were dressed, what types of foods and products they were buying (obvious party foods/supplies), and then getting peeved that they were so inconsiderate? And she was obviously not a single mom, or at least alone. There was a perfectly able-bodied man there with her. *That's* why I was upset and it bothered me so much that I even posted here.

I didn't post some of these details in my OP because I just didn't think it would make any difference, and probably still doesn't. I am very glad to see that at least some mamas see where I was coming from. I'm sorry to those of you who my being bothered by this got offended. That was not the intention of the OP.

Nope, it doesn't make you such a bad person. And I think most people reading this agree with you that subjecting their child and everyone else in the store to that for at least an hour was inconsiderate, at best.

But there are always some people on MDC who somehow feel that they are being judged because they've let their baby cry for an extended period in a store or something. Or because their child is autistic and others just can't tell by looking or something. And really, we all tend to get defensive when we see someone being critical of something and feel like they'd also be critical of us. In reality, though, the situations that people have posted on here about their own children crying in stores strike me in almost all cases (skipped a couple of pages of this thread) as pretty different from what you described. There's a big difference between a couple of frazzled parents frantically trying to grab some needed things and get out of the store and the situation you described. Worlds apart.


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## Chicky2 (May 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *magstphil* 
The judgment on this thread.







:

These thread always make me laugh. You got a poster venting about whatever not necessarily saying the parents are evil or horrible or need to be shot but being judgmental, yes. We're human, it's what we do. But then you get the _real_ judgment- "how dare you judge! Why I think I am going to sit here and judge you harshly for judging." and that is different how?.... And it often gets blown out of proportion as if this mom said in her OP these people should have their child ripped away from them.










We can't just leave it at "I disagree. This could be a different way to look at it _____"? Why the personal comments about the posters who are suspicious/annoyed by the behavior in the OP? We can't just give the benefit of the doubt in both cases and look on both sides?

I dunno I just think maybe we should all take a step back and really think about the people involved on all sides.









Thank you. I was starting to feel bashed for being human.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rainyday* 
Who said anything about taking her to a corner? I said take her outside. And I still stand by it. If I saw you and your partner wandering the store for at least an hour while your child screamed hysterically, and you both seemed like normal, functioning adults holding a conversation (like the OP heard), then, yep, I'd judge. And I rarely judge people with screaming kids in stores. I only get judgemental when I see someone being incredibly inconsiderate of either their child or every single other person in that store in really rare circumstances like the OP's. Parent by herself with screaming kid? Nope, I don't judge that (unless I see parent mocking the child or something similar). Parent who seems zoned out pushing screaming child through store without interacting with it? I don't judge that. But with two adults who are functional enough to walk and talk normally, I can't imagine the scenario where they both must be in that store together with the screaming child for an hour. For 20 minutes? Sure, I can come up with scenarios for that one - but an entire hour doesn't say to me that the parents were rushing to get some essentials or even rushing to get the week's groceries.

And thank you. That last part was the way I felt.


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## felix23 (Nov 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rainyday* 
Who said anything about taking her to a corner? I said take her outside. And I still stand by it. If I saw you and your partner wandering the store for at least an hour while your child screamed hysterically, and you both seemed like normal, functioning adults holding a conversation (like the OP heard), then, yep, I'd judge. And I rarely judge people with screaming kids in stores. I only get judgemental when I see someone being incredibly inconsiderate of either their child or every single other person in that store in really rare circumstances like the OP's. Parent by herself with screaming kid? Nope, I don't judge that (unless I see parent mocking the child or something similar). Parent who seems zoned out pushing screaming child through store without interacting with it? I don't judge that. But with two adults who are functional enough to walk and talk normally, I can't imagine the scenario where they both must be in that store together with the screaming child for an hour. For 20 minutes? Sure, I can come up with scenarios for that one - but an entire hour doesn't say to me that the parents were rushing to get some essentials or even rushing to get the week's groceries.

It was pouring rain, we couldn't go outside. Someone else suggested taking her to the side or a corner of the store and try to get her to calm down, it wouldn't work, instead it would only make it worse. It was an hour because we were waiting on the car. Talking to her would also make her cry harder, so yes, we were two functioning adults, having a converstation, while our child laid in the buggy and cried.


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## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rainyday* 
There's a big difference between a couple of frazzled parents frantically trying to grab some needed things and get out of the store and the situation you described. Worlds apart.

From the OP:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chicky2* 
The mom looked frazzled

Doesn't seem worlds apart to me.


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## Chicky2 (May 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rainyday* 
. In reality, though, the situations that people have posted on here about their own children crying in stores strike me in almost all cases (skipped a couple of pages of this thread) as pretty different from what you described. There's a big difference between a couple of frazzled parents frantically trying to grab some needed things and get out of the store and the situation you described. Worlds apart.

Exactly. And I truly do feel for the parents who have posted about their own situations. But yes, they are completely different from what I posted about. I have a huge, huge heart and alot of empathy for others. I do not set out to the grocery store to see how many people or situations I can judge. Sometimes, however, situations just smack you right in the face and who can help but pay attention and sometimes judge? As a pp poster said, we are human, and that is what we do. Like it or not.


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## rainyday (Apr 28, 2006)

.


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## *Aimee* (Jan 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *magstphil* 
The judgment on this thread.







:

These thread always make me laugh. You got a poster venting about whatever not necessarily saying the parents are evil or horrible or need to be shot but being judgmental, yes. We're human, it's what we do. But then you get the _real_ judgment- "how dare you judge! Why I think I am going to sit here and judge you harshly for judging." and that is different how?.... And it often gets blown out of proportion as if this mom said in her OP these people should have their child ripped away from them.










We can't just leave it at "I disagree. This could be a different way to look at it _____"? Why the personal comments about the posters who are suspicious/annoyed by the behavior in the OP? We can't just give the benefit of the doubt in both cases and look on both sides?

I dunno I just think maybe we should all take a step back and really think about the people involved on all sides.









To me, if anyone should understand what its like to have a kid freaking out, it'd be another mother. Someone who is in the thick of it still. There have been a TON of posts here saying what bad parents these people are. I just get sick of all the "OMGZ check out the bad parents I saw today!" posts. They make me feel sad for the families.

I don't think anyone here is saying it's not horribly annoying to hear a screaming child. But the "I would just walk right over and tell them to leave". Serious? that's so awful!


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## Cinder (Feb 4, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *felix23* 
Well, count yourself very lucky that you have the support so that you didn't have to leave the house for the first six months. I had a child that screamed for the first year and it was impossible for me to keep her at home all the time for a year. We live in the country, a good drive from the store, so there was no leaving and coming back another time, we couldn't afford the gas. Crying children used to annnoy me, but now I just have compassion for both the parents and the child.

'
I didn't say I don't have compassion, but that does not give anyone the right to be that rude to every single other shopper in a store by letting your kid scream in a store for an hour! There is just no way this is acceptable behaviour! And crying children don't just annoy me, they greatly upset my 5 and 2 year olds, which is something they shouldn't have to put up with either.


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## Cinder (Feb 4, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AverysMomma* 
^This. (and mama....you are a warrior,







...I'm always glad to meet mamas like you.)

I want to say, that the above post is what I meant, when I said that I always try to give an encouraging smile and understanding to parents in this position...because you REALLY DON'T know what the true story is.

Sometimes I get mad, just burned up....because it's obvious the parent thinks it's funny, doesn't care..whatever...but then I think "What if this woman is REALLY embarassed and THAT is why she's laughing it off?" - and I jsut mind my own business.

The bottom line is...it doesn't really matter what the situation was...it doesn't really matter what the hidden reasons or non-reasons were behind this annoyance to other shoppers....kindness, it what really matters.

Kindness gets you a long way, I've learned. Kindness, in the face of a situation where you really don't even HAVE to be kind...where most people would say that you have a right to be UNKIND...gets you even further, at least in my book.

If you can't be understanding with people like this, on the off chance that there is a real, legit reason for their behavior....at least pity them, for their apparent lack of social awareness, which would cause any of us, if we could, to take a crying kid outside.

We are parents here. Everyone remembers the preparent days, where you saw a kid melt down in the store and thought "not my kids, when I have kids they will not behave like that" - then you have kids and all sorts of things you didn't understand, judged, etc are thrown in your face and sometimes you have to laugh at ever having judged those parents. And you can see, in the faces of people with no kids, who don't get it...those same judgements and you have to laugh it off, because you think to yourself "well, you don't have kids, those of us with kids, get it" - so...BE that. Be the "those of us with kids" and recognize that sometimes it's not clear to everyone else what's going on. Trust that what your kids are capable of doing to you (making you look like a complete jerk in public) other peoples kids are capable of doing to them.

Kindness can never be wasted. Best case scenario...you give a small boost of confidence to a mama who feels like running out into traffic over what her kid is doing and is so embarassed and just wants to sink into the floor....WORST case scenario...the mama is really ebing a jerk and just doesn't care...and YOU practiced tolerance and put POSITIVE vibes out in to the world anyway!

How can you lose, when you choose kindness, compassion and accept that, as a mere mortal human...you CAN'T see all reasons for all things??


But being kind goes both ways, and letting your kid scream for an hour in a store is not kind.

And seriously, I've been there, like I said, Kincaid literally screamed for the first 6 months of his life, all day, every day, nothing I did helped at all. He is autistic, little things can still set him off even at 5 (one of the biggest being another kid screaming! Doesn't he deserve this same kindness to not have to deal with it?), when that happens, we leave, it's my job to deal with it, not every other person who happens to be in the same place of business as us.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Aimee** 
*To me, if anyone should understand what its like to have a kid freaking out, it'd be another mother.* Someone who is in the thick of it still. There have been a TON of posts here saying what bad parents these people are. I just get sick of all the "OMGZ check out the bad parents I saw today!" posts. They make me feel sad for the families.

I get that. But as the OP stated she was just wondering why if there were two parents one didn't take the toddler out. I actually think that is a valid question. Now that doesn't mean I think she or anyone else has the right to sit and say these parents are bad or go up to them and say something rude but it does make me wonder why if there were TWO parents they just went on with it and for an hour no less. There could be a million reasons which is why the blind judgment is never a good idea but I guess I just don't see it as these posters really coming down hard on the parents- especially the OP.

And hey I am sick of threads like that too but it is what it is and they really do tend to turn into one big cesspool of judgment on both sides. I just feel like not all people who come here venting about others are doing so to feel superior or are looking down their nose. Sometimes people just need to vent.


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## felix23 (Nov 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cinder* 
'
I didn't say I don't have compassion, but that does not give anyone the right to be that rude to every single other shopper in a store by letting your kid scream in a store for an hour! There is just no way this is acceptable behaviour! And crying children don't just annoy me, they greatly upset my 5 and 2 year olds, which is something they shouldn't have to put up with either.

Well, I'm open for suggestions on what exactly I should have done when I :

~ couldn't leave the store for an hour because we were waiting for the car
~ couldn't take her outside because it was pouring rain
~ she wasn't hungry, tired, thirsty, she just wanted us to buy every item she pointed to, which we can't afford to do.
~ picking her up and trying to talk to her only made her scream worse, she is actually quieter when we don't talk to her.

So, what should I have done?


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## Cinder (Feb 4, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *felix23* 
Well, I'm open for suggestions on what exactly I should have done when I :

~ couldn't leave the store for an hour because we were waiting for the car
~ couldn't take her outside because it was pouring rain
~ she wasn't hungry, tired, thirsty, she just wanted us to buy every item she pointed to, which we can't afford to do.
~ picking her up and trying to talk to her only made her scream worse, she is actually quieter when we don't talk to her.

So, what should I have done?

I've bought a blanket and taken my screaming baby outside in the rain before. I know how horribly sceaming effects my son, so I don't subject others to it... I don't get why this kindness that should be shown for the screaming child shouldn't be extended to everyone... I know I for one have been there, with a kid who screams for hours on end and nothing can comfort him, and I know the last thing I want to do is cause the same pain for another parent and child, which is exactly what letting your kid scream for an hour in the store we are in would do (though, I also wouldn't let that happen, cause I'd leave before the kid had screamed for 10 minutes straight if Kincaid was with me...).

Seriously, Kincaid would be way less upset and offended by some random stranger walking up to him and slapping him across the face than he is by babies screaming uncontrollably, fire alarms, loud fans...just some examples.


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## felix23 (Nov 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cinder* 
I've bought a blanket and taken my screaming baby outside in the rain before. I know how horribly sceaming effects my son, so I don't subject others to it... I don't get why this kindness that should be shown for the screaming child shouldn't be extended to everyone... I know I for one have been there, with a kid who screams for hours on end and nothing can comfort him, and I know the last thing I want to do is cause the same pain for another parent and child, which is exactly what letting your kid scream for an hour in the store we are in would do (though, I also wouldn't let that happen, cause I'd leave before the kid had screamed for 10 minutes straight if Kincaid was with me...).

Seriously, Kincaid would be way less upset and offended by some random stranger walking up to him and slapping him across the face than he is by babies screaming uncontrollably, fire alarms, loud fans...just some examples.


I'm sorry, I'm just not going to force my child to stand out in the cold rain, I'm just not. I'm sorry you would have had to leave the store, but at least you have the ability to do so, I didn't.

When Lilly was small, children who laughed and talked loud would have sent her into a crying fit, there is no way I would have expected the parents of loud children to just leave. This is a store, not a library, it is going to be loud, so I only took her when absolutly necessary, and then I was prepared for her to cry. It sucked, but it was life.


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## momma_unlimited (Aug 10, 2008)

Quote:

I know how horribly sceaming effects my son, so I don't subject others to it... I don't get why this kindness that should be shown for the screaming child shouldn't be extended to everyone... I know I for one have been there, with a kid who screams for hours on end and nothing can comfort him, and I know the last thing I want to do is cause the same pain for another parent and child, which is exactly what letting your kid scream for an hour in the store we are in would do (though, I also wouldn't let that happen, cause I'd leave before the kid had screamed for 10 minutes straight if Kincaid was with me...).
Maybe, if you are so sensitive to it, *you* should be the ones to leave if there is a screaming kid, and do so peacefully, without any ill will to those who do not share your family's sensitivities or perspective. It is enlightening to others to hear about other people's sensitivites- it broadens our awareness- but nevertheless, after reading what you've written, I still don't think being in a public place means you need to consider every possible thing which could be offensive to another person and avoid it- that would make me a nervous WRECK, if I had to consider myself "insensitive or rude" because out of ignorance or difference of opinion I was "bothering" others. I do think that by entering a public place, you make certain concessions about what you will put up with graciously, as opposed to how you would do things in your own personal environment...???


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## SilverWillow (Dec 23, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cinder* 
I've bought a blanket and taken my screaming baby outside in the rain before. .

I wouldn't have the money for an unexpected expense like that. If I'd just abruptly changed the scenery like that, my daughter would probably have had one of her turning blue/seizure episodes (no, not on purpose. rough transitions were a trigger. also: water in her face, rain=bad. so now what she *I* have done, with no food in the house and needing to buy some or go hungry?


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## Cinder (Feb 4, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momma_unlimited* 
Maybe, if you are so sensitive to it, *you* should be the ones to leave if there is a screaming kid, and do so peacefully, without any ill will to those who do not share your family's sensitivities or perspective. It is enlightening to others to hear about other people's sensitivites- it broadens our awareness- but nevertheless, after reading what you've written, I still don't think being in a public place means you need to consider every possible thing which could be offensive to another person and avoid it- that would make me a nervous WRECK, if I had to consider myself "insensitive or rude" because out of ignorance or difference of opinion I was "bothering" others. I do think that by entering a public place, you make certain concessions about what you will put up with graciously, as opposed to how you would do things in your own personal environment...???

I did say that I leave, I always leave, I definitely don't go looking for the kid who is screaming, I have never once in my life commented to someone on their parenting (well, except the time my dh called the cops on the woman beating her kid with a pop bottle in a walgreens parking lot, but that's different), never, and I never will. But I leave in both instances, if my kid is the one screaming or if it's another kid, cause I do not think everyone else should have to be exposed to my screaming child, it's rude to think so!


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## felix23 (Nov 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cinder* 
I did say that I leave, I always leave, I definitely don't go looking for the kid who is screaming, I have never once in my life commented to someone on their parenting (well, except the time my dh called the cops on the woman beating her kid with a pop bottle in a walgreens parking lot, but that's different), never, and I never will. But I leave in both instances, if my kid is the one screaming or if it's another kid, cause I do not think everyone else should have to be exposed to my screaming child, it's rude to think so!

But you have the ability to leave and come back later, not every one can do that. People who ride the bus or depend of friends to drive them can't always do that. Some people have to continue on with a crying child if they want to have food in the house.


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## momma_unlimited (Aug 10, 2008)

Quote:

I did say that I leave, I always leave, I definitely don't go looking for the kid who is screaming, I have never once in my life commented to someone on their parenting (well, except the time my dh called the cops on the woman beating her kid with a pop bottle in a walgreens parking lot, but that's different), never, and I never will. But I leave in both instances, if my kid is the one screaming or if it's another kid, cause I do not think everyone else should have to be exposed to my screaming child, it's rude to think so!
Right, you leave, but I am gathering you leave with a negative attitude about it, the feeling the other people are *wrong*. ???

I guess, when I read yoru post, I thought of a lot of things. I thought abot how we try to avoid peanut containing snacks/treats in public in case anyone with nut allergies will pass by and go into anaphyliactic shock (had a coworker and roomie like that). I sometimes feel weird wearing pants, because with so many Amish around us, I tend to feel like some sort of hussy in a tank top and capris. I can't say "Merry Christmas" anymore without wondering if I will offend people. Forget about perfume, people have chemical sensitivies I could aggravate (went to a church with a plicy on that!) and now... if my toddler has a fit because he only wants to run around the store unrestrained EVERY TIME WE GO, and I make him sit in cart or my arms, I am rude not to leave.









Life is just too complicated!!!!


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## Cinder (Feb 4, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *felix23* 
But you have the ability to leave and come back later, not every one can do that. People who ride the bus or depend of friends to drive them can't always do that. Some people have to continue on with a crying child if they want to have food in the house.

It's true, I do have that ability, I'm honestly not sure what I'd do if I had no way to leave a situation, I guess I just don't put myself in that situation...but, again, I have a choice, I own a car(though, dh does take public transportation), I can walk to and from a couple grocery stores if I really want to (though, this is a recent occurance, like with in the last year-18 months)...

I know my mom was a single parent, and we lived in a SMALL town, grocery shopping for more than just the things that could be bought at the corner store/party store happened once a month, but she always got my grandparents, a friend, a cousin, someone to go with us...my brother has aspergers....he also had (thankfully he outgrew it cause it would be embarassing otherwise!) an issue of projectile vomitting at the smell of onions, so someone had to keep him out of the produce, there was just no other choice.


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## Cinder (Feb 4, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momma_unlimited* 
Right, you leave, but I am gathering you leave with a negative attitude about it, the feeling the other people are *wrong*. ???

I guess, when I read yoru post, I thought of a lot of things. I thought abot how we try to avoid peanut containing snacks/treats in public in case anyone with nut allergies will pass by and go into anaphyliactic shock (had a coworker and roomie like that). I sometimes feel weird wearing pants, because with so many Amish around us, I tend to feel like some sort of hussy in a tank top and capris. I can't say "Merry Christmas" anymore without wondering if I will offend people. Forget about perfume, people have chemical sensitivies I could aggravate (went to a church with a plicy on that!) and now... if my toddler has a fit because he only wants to run around the store unrestrained EVERY TIME WE GO, and I make him sit in cart or my arms, I am rude not to leave.









Life is just too complicated!!!!

I do leave annoyed, but annoyed at the fact that we have to leave...however if it had been going on for an hour, well yea...

I do those things to, no peanuts in case someone is allergic, etc etc (and I grew up in amish country, how funny!)

But I do think there is a HUGE difference between a kid throwing a temper tantrum from being put in the cart and a kid screaming for an hour straight in a cart, huge huge huge difference...

I however can even come up with an example where there is nothing you can do... I've been locked into a store twice in my life...when a kid was missing they locked all the exits and let no one leave till the kid was found...luckily I was alone both times, but one time we stayed locked in the store for 2 hours! I've also been caught in a store (as a kid) during a tornado warning and no one was allowed to leave.


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## felix23 (Nov 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cinder* 
It's true, I do have that ability, I'm honestly not sure what I'd do if I had no way to leave a situation, I guess I just don't put myself in that situation...but, again, I have a choice, I own a car(though, dh does take public transportation), I can walk to and from a couple grocery stores if I really want to (though, this is a recent occurance, like with in the last year-18 months)...

I know my mom was a single parent, and we lived in a SMALL town, grocery shopping for more than just the things that could be bought at the corner store/party store happened once a month, but she always got my grandparents, a friend, a cousin, someone to go with us...my brother has aspergers....he also had (thankfully he outgrew it cause it would be embarassing otherwise!) an issue of projectile vomitting at the smell of onions, so someone had to keep him out of the produce, there was just no other choice.

Your mom is lucky that she had a big support system, not everyone has that.


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## Sionainne (Jan 23, 2008)

How long would the kid have to scream for everyone to agree that somebody has to do something about this? 1.5 hours? 2 hours? 3 hours? The child could be in pain or have been kidnapped. You never know. It seems wrong to for everyone to just ignore the main problem and either silently or vocally bemoan the child, his parents, or the noise, or the store management, or the people who are bemoaning the child/parents/noise/management?? I mean, somebody is s c r e a m i n g , why are we as a polite society or supermoms supposed to pretend this is not happening? Parents, please ask for help. You may be surprised at the number of gentle faces and voices that come to your aid.

I asked in another thread how could a stranger help in such a situation, particularly aimed towards those mothers who have kids with spectral disorders. If a stranger offered to help in the midst of a meltdown, what would you say?


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sionainne* 
How long would the kid have to scream for everyone to agree that somebody has to do something about this? 1.5 hours? 2 hours? 3 hours? The child could be in pain or have been kidnapped. You never know. It seems wrong to for everyone to just ignore the main problem and either silently or vocally bemoan the child, his parents, or the noise, or the store management, or the people who are bemoaning the child/parents/noise/management?? I mean, somebody is s c r e a m i n g , why are we as a polite society or supermoms supposed to pretend this is not happening? Parents, please ask for help. You may be surprised at the number of gentle faces and voices that come to your aid.

I asked in another thread how could a stranger help in such a situation, particularly aimed towards those mothers who have kids with spectral disorders. If a stranger offered to help in the midst of a meltdown, what would you say?

Good point.


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## seawind (Sep 28, 2007)

Earplugs. Easier for an individual to use than for frazzled parents to handle grocery shopping, a grumpy toddler and whatever else is going on in their lives that we, noise-sensitive strangers, are not privy to.


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## SilverWillow (Dec 23, 2003)

good question. if someone had offered to help, I think it would have depended on the day. some days I just fell into a pit of despair and self-pity (not proud of it, but it's true) and I might have taken it the wrong way and snapped. other days I would have probably cried with gratitude. other days I would have cheerfully said "thank you SO much!" and asked them to grab a few things off the shelves within reach of where they were standing, and promised to pass the favor on someday when I could.







kindness can never hurt.

pre-kid I was super judgmental of basically all parents. then I got my humbling experience. sometimes I try to remember that mean people just haven't gotten their humbling experience... YET. heh heh.







maybe it's evil to take satisfaction in knowing that pretty much everybody becomes more insightful over time, whether they like it or not. I don't know. but I think it's good to see everyone as works in progress, even people who disagree with me  or who behave unkindly. on my good days, I do remember that.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

What would I have done in the OP's situation?

First I would get near the family and "listen", pick up on subtle cues, and see if there was some way I could help. There have been plenty of times when I see a parent shopping alone, and the child is fussing, when I'm able to entertain or distract the LO and make for a more smooth shopping experience all around. But there are other times when I get vibes that it's best not to interfere, and then I won't say anything.

If I heard a child screaming for more than 10 or 15 minutes, and there were TWO adults there, and I got "don't interfere" vibes from those adults, I would have asked a store employee to handle the situation. Let the manager ask them to take the child outside, and not risk my own personal safety.

When it was my own child doing the screaming, I'd do everything in my power to calm the child down (including giving them space or "riding out a tantrum" when appropriate- but that's never been longer than 10 minutes IME.) If the child couldn't calm down in a reasonable amount of time, I'd hurry up and finish my shopping as fast as possible.

Usually it was NOT reasonable to abandon my shopping and go another day, as whatever problem the child had would still be there the next day, and we'd already done half the shopping (so why repeat the entire experience the next day when I can finish up in 5 minutes today?) Plus, if I was in the store with an overtired or sick toddler, chances are I'd already put off the shopping as long as possible (waiting for "the right time to shop" that never came) and we desperately needed the groceries.


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## seawind (Sep 28, 2007)

Earplugs. Easier for an individual to use than for frazzled parents to handle grocery shopping, a grumpy toddler and whatever else is going on in their lives that we, noise-sensitive strangers, are not privy to.


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## BroodyWoodsgal (Jan 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rainyday* 
What about kindness to every other shopper or employee in that store?

<snip>


Quote:


Originally Posted by *AverysMomma* 
<snip Kindness gets you a long way, I've learned. *Kindness, in the face of a situation where you really don't even HAVE to be kind...where most people would say that you have a right to be UNKIND...gets you even further, at least in my book.*

<snip>

^Kindness is always cool, even when someone is being thoughtless with your personal enjoyment of shared space. How lucky for my throbbing fingers, that I have already answered the question you asked...out of curiosity: What do you say to your children...when you tell them to stop bickering and one of them offers up the ole "He staaaaarted it!!" - because that's essentially what you're saying here.

"Her child annoyed me and my perception, is that she doesn't care and isn't responding properly, so I should feel free to judge her, glare at her and/or ask her to leave a space I don't even own" - right, because this makes you look any better?

Come on mamas, it's called radical acceptance...look it up. Crap happens. Other peoples kids noises are harder to tolerate than our own. Some men smell bad...sometimes a young man ogles you without shame in the freezer isle. One time a lady I had never seen before, tried to feed a big huge piece of cheddarworst to my baby, after I clearly said "she doesn't eat that sort of thing" - Welcome to Earth, what you are about to experience is called life...sometimes it;s fantastic, sometimes it's really freakin' annoying. When you go into public...guess who you meet there? THE PUBLIC! "The Public" are loud, they chew gum obnoxiously, they scream at their kids in the parking lot, they whine, they yell into their cell phones, or worse yet...those earbug cells, that you can't even SEE! UGH! They do all sorts of things which drive. you. crazy.

Here;s the thing....YOU do things that drive THEM crazy, too. Like..when you're walking along in the isle and your son, who is learning to whistle, strikes up a tune as he merrily walks along...and you think "_wow, he's getting so good at that"_ and smile, so proud at your boy....and down the isle...a man is turning to his wife, and says _"I wish someone would stop that god awful screeching...look at that mother, she's smiling, she doesn't even care, I shouldn't have to listen to that when I'm out, I can hardly think!"_ - See, YOU are "The Public" to someone else!

I say, and I mean this...get over it. How many times a week is this happening to you, that you mamas can even GET that upset about it! This is not happening in your living room...this is happening in a space which does not belong to you, which you are vouluntarily entering, KNOWING that you could be confronted with something obnoxious.

Yeah, if they really were able bodied, and they really could have had one of them take the kid outside, etc etc...it's rude. Okay, there you have it...they were rude. but so is the guy who makes that snorting sound and then spits a big phlem ball out of his mouth onto the ground right next to you. So is the man, who didn't wear underwear and has baggy pants on and gives you an eyefull, so is the lady who cuts her car in front of you into the space you just waited so patiently for....if you walk around angry and judging these people all the time, I have two thoughts for you:

1. Be careful, because judgment and anger are poison to your soul, and

2. try not to ever have a bad day....because it stinks when you do and people glare at you when everything is going wrong and your kid is crying and you're running late, etc.

I'll tell you, I don't know how the universe works, I wouldn't pretend to KNOW if there is such a thing as getting back what you put out...but I try, just in case, to put out good energy..I figure, worse case scenario, I went through my life with mercy, forgiveness, grace and good will toward man. Even really rude ones.


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## Magella (Apr 5, 2004)

AverysMomma,


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## SilverWillow (Dec 23, 2003)

AverysMomma;14065131
1. Be careful said:


> I loved your whole post. AverysMomma, you ROCK.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AverysMomma* 
^Kindness is always cool, even when someone is being thoughtless with your personal enjoyment of shared space. How lucky for my throbbing fingers, that I have already answered the question you asked...out of curiosity: What do you say to your children...when you tell them to stop bickering and one of them offers up the ole "He staaaaarted it!!" - because that's essentially what you're saying here.

"Her child annoyed me and my perception, is that she doesn't care and isn't responding properly, so I should feel free to judge her, glare at her and/or ask her to leave a space I don't even own" - right, because this makes you look any better?

Come on mamas, it's called radical acceptance...look it up. Crap happens. Other peoples kids noises are harder to tolerate than our own. Some men smell bad...sometimes a young man ogles you without shame in the freezer isle. One time a lady I had never seen before, tried to feed a big huge piece of cheddarworst to my baby, after I clearly said "she doesn't eat that sort of thing" - Welcome to Earth, what you are about to experience is called life...sometimes it;s fantastic, sometimes it's really freakin' annoying. When you go into public...guess who you meet there? THE PUBLIC! "The Public" are loud, they chew gum obnoxiously, they scream at their kids in the parking lot, they whine, they yell into their cell phones, or worse yet...those earbug cells, that you can't even SEE! UGH! They do all sorts of things which drive. you. crazy.

Here;s the thing....YOU do things that drive THEM crazy, too. Like..when you're walking along in the isle and your son, who is learning to whistle, strikes up a tune as he merrily walks along...and you think "_wow, he's getting so good at that"_ and smile, so proud at your boy....and down the isle...a man is turning to his wife, and says _"I wish someone would stop that god awful screeching...look at that mother, she's smiling, she doesn't even care, I shouldn't have to listen to that when I'm out, I can hardly think!"_ - See, YOU are "The Public" to someone else!

I say, and I mean this...get over it. How many times a week is this happening to you, that you mamas can even GET that upset about it! This is not happening in your living room...this is happening in a space which does not belong to you, which you are vouluntarily entering, KNOWING that you could be confronted with something obnoxious.

Yeah, if they really were able bodied, and they really could have had one of them take the kid outside, etc etc...it's rude. Okay, there you have it...they were rude. but so is the guy who makes that snorting sound and then spits a big phlem ball out of his mouth onto the ground right next to you. So is the man, who didn't wear underwear and has baggy pants on and gives you an eyefull, so is the lady who cuts her car in front of you into the space you just waited so patiently for....if you walk around angry and judging these people all the time, I have two thoughts for you:

1. Be careful, because judgment and anger are poison to your soul, and

2. try not to ever have a bad day....because it stinks when you do and people glare at you when everything is going wrong and your kid is crying and you're running late, etc.

I'll tell you, I don't know how the universe works, I wouldn't pretend to KNOW if there is such a thing as getting back what you put out...but I try, just in case, to put out good energy..I figure, worse case scenario, I went through my life with mercy, forgiveness, grace and good will toward man. Even really rude ones.

Totally agree.

And I did look up radical acceptance









http://www.ehow.com/how_2078558_prac...cceptance.html

Did you read the book, AM?


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## SilverWillow (Dec 23, 2003)

magstphil: thanks for the link! that info now lives on my refrigerator door.


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## *Aimee* (Jan 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *magstphil* 
I get that. But as the OP stated she was just wondering why if there were two parents one didn't take the toddler out. I actually think that is a valid question. Now that doesn't mean I think she or anyone else has the right to sit and say these parents are bad or go up to them and say something rude but it does make me wonder why if there were TWO parents they just went on with it and for an hour no less. There could be a million reasons which is why the blind judgment is never a good idea but I guess I just don't see it as these posters really coming down hard on the parents- especially the OP.

And hey I am sick of threads like that too but it is what it is and they really do tend to turn into one big cesspool of judgment on both sides. I just feel like not all people who come here venting about others are doing so to feel superior or are looking down their nose. Sometimes people just need to vent.

Maybe I didn't make myself totally clear. I understand venting and coming here. What is bothering me is not necessarily the OP, but all the posters saying they'd demand the child leave. I just think that's crappy.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Aimee** 
Maybe I didn't make myself totally clear. I understand venting and coming here. What is bothering me is not necessarily the OP, but all the posters saying they'd demand the child leave. I just think that's crappy.

I have to agree there.


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## BroodyWoodsgal (Jan 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *magstphil* 
Totally agree.

And I did look up radical acceptance








http://www.ehow.com/how_2078558_prac...cceptance.html

Did you read the book, AM?

Haha! I love that you found that link!!

I used to be a person who suffered near crippling anxiety...I used to get SO twisted up inside over things...actually, the grocery store used to be a real nightmare for me and one day, I was in therapy and I was LOSING it..telling my therapist about something which had happened "to" me:

A woman behind me in the check out line was a "Creeper"....I wasn't half way through my transaction before she was creeping up on me, ready to pay for her own. I was finished paying and trying to stuff my change, etc into my wallet, and the man started ringing in her stuff and she was almost pushing me, physically, out of the way to get in front of the pay station....I almost cried...instead I sputtered out something very strange, not words, just..like, gutteral, raw, emotion...and gave her a look (which Im sure was a look of pure murder and hatred) and felt like I wanted to just, KILL her.....

My therapist chose that day, to begin a new chapter in our work together. She said "What we're going to talk about is called radical acceptance, have you heard of that" - my life totally changed that day. I'm serious....hand to the stars...I'm telling the truth, my. life. changed. It was like all along,I'd been waiting for someone to give me permission to let go and just accept life as it came to me.

I completed years of therapy, and Dialectical Behavioral Therapy as well....which I did in an intense, once weekly, one on one, year long treatment. I HIGHLY recommend it, for people who live in the tortured, crazy mind of an adult living in the confusion and aftermath of an abusive childhood. I totally reprogrammed my brain and my entire life changed. It just so happen, that over the same years that I was experiencing a huge shift in my thinking and ability to cope with life, I was also experiencing a spiritual explosion! I shed all my religion and perceptions of any god, etc. and just started believing in people, in GOOD and in living through love. I came out of all of it, a happy, confident person....who is finally capable of only giving love to people who love me back, in the healthy way that I deserve. You would never in a million years, seeing how high on love I am now, how committed I am to only allowing healthy people in my life....you would never guess how low my lows have been.

So...as a person who used to walk around SO angry, judging, ranting in my mind about the world, taking everything...no matter how completely disconnected frommy life that it was...taking EVERYTHING as if it were being pointed at me....I can honestly say, that living in love and practicing a radical acceptance of the world and al lthe people in it, is the better way to live.

I'm not perfect, I still get angry at stupid stuff, that is what it means to be human...but really, since I started letting go of stuff more than holding on...my life is like a freakin' carnival ride!! (in a good way!) I keep myself open to love and awesome, fun possiblities.....and guess what? All that love and all those awesome possibilities just come a'roooolllin in!!


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## Cinder (Feb 4, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Aimee** 
Maybe I didn't make myself totally clear. I understand venting and coming here. What is bothering me is not necessarily the OP, but all the posters saying they'd demand the child leave. I just think that's crappy.

I do not think a single person said they'd demand the child leave. One person said she'd suggest to the parents that maybe they take the child out and others agreed. Suggesting and demanding are completely different.


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## jeanine123 (Jan 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
Two parents and the







people didn't have one parent take the kid out of the store while the other continued shopping? What was WRONG with those people?

One parent, I would've been sympathetic and assumed the kid would just freak out worse if picked up. Two parents, I would've been sympathetic for 5 minutes.

And after 10 minutes, I would've gone over and said something like "Hi, could one of you please take your kid outside?" Hoping that either they'd 1. do it. Or 2. get so mad about someone telling them what do to that I could relieve some frustration by yelling back at them.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cinder* 
I do not think a single person said they'd demand the child leave. One person said she'd suggest to the parents that maybe they take the child out and others agreed. Suggesting and demanding are completely different.


The first response I quoted sounds like a demand to me. A politely worded one but a demand nonetheless. And really, saying this to the parents in the hopes that you could get into a screaming match with them in order to release some of YOUR frustration? That's a pretty crappy suggestion.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AverysMomma* 
^Kindness is always cool, even when someone is being thoughtless with your personal enjoyment of shared space.

I'll tell you, I don't know how the universe works, I wouldn't pretend to KNOW if there is such a thing as getting back what you put out...but I try, just in case, to put out good energy..*I figure, worse case scenario, I went through my life with mercy, forgiveness, grace and good will toward man. Even really rude ones*.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Magella* 
AverysMomma,



















I quote you a lot, Averys Momma.








Now if only my husband could adopt the attitude I highlighted with bold in your quote


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AverysMomma* 
Haha! I love that you found that link!!

I used to be a person who suffered near crippling anxiety...I used to get SO twisted up inside over things...actually, the grocery store used to be a real nightmare for me and one day, I was in therapy and I was LOSING it..telling my therapist about something which had happened "to" me:

A woman behind me in the check out line was a "Creeper"....I wasn't half way through my transaction before she was creeping up on me, ready to pay for her own. I was finished paying and trying to stuff my change, etc into my wallet, and the man started ringing in her stuff and she was almost pushing me, physically, out of the way to get in front of the pay station....I almost cried...instead I sputtered out something very strange, not words, just..like, gutteral, raw, emotion...and gave her a look (which Im sure was a look of pure murder and hatred) and felt like I wanted to just, KILL her.....

My therapist chose that day, to begin a new chapter in our work together. She said "What we're going to talk about is called radical acceptance, have you heard of that" - my life totally changed that day. I'm serious....hand to the stars...I'm telling the truth, my. life. changed. It was like all along,I'd been waiting for someone to give me permission to let go and just accept life as it came to me.

I completed years of therapy, and Dialectical Behavioral Therapy as well....which I did in an intense, once weekly, one on one, year long treatment. I HIGHLY recommend it, for people who live in the tortured, crazy mind of an adult living in the confusion and aftermath of an abusive childhood. I totally reprogrammed my brain and my entire life changed. It just so happen, that over the same years that I was experiencing a huge shift in my thinking and ability to cope with life, I was also experiencing a spiritual explosion! I shed all my religion and perceptions of any god, etc. and just started believing in people, in GOOD and in living through love. I came out of all of it, a happy, confident person....who is finally capable of only giving love to people who love me back, in the healthy way that I deserve. You would never in a million years, seeing how high on love I am now, how committed I am to only allowing healthy people in my life....you would never guess how low my lows have been.

So...as a person who used to walk around SO angry, judging, ranting in my mind about the world, taking everything...no matter how completely disconnected frommy life that it was...taking EVERYTHING as if it were being pointed at me....I can honestly say, that living in love and practicing a radical acceptance of the world and al lthe people in it, is the better way to live.

I'm not perfect, I still get angry at stupid stuff, that is what it means to be human...but really, since I started letting go of stuff more than holding on...my life is like a freakin' carnival ride!! (in a good way!) I keep myself open to love and awesome, fun possiblities.....and guess what? All that love and all those awesome possibilities just come a'roooolllin in!!

















:


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## Jennifer Z (Sep 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lotusdebi* 
I agreed with other posts in this thread, but picked this one to quote because of the anger behind it. I'm feeling that same anger.

My oldest child has autism and sensory issues. I did not know that when he was an infant and a toddler. I was severely sleep-deprived (often to the point of psychosis) for the first few YEARS of his life because the child never slept. He cried, arched his back, was never comfortable, couldn't stay still, was a difficult nurser, and generally made my life a living hell. There was no such thing as an easy outing with him. But, we had to get out of the house. I had to get out of the house simply so I wouldn't lose my mind and kill us all some days.

If you have a child who has the occasional tantrum due to teething or tiredness or not getting what he wants, then good for you. My second is like that. It's incredibly easy raising a kid like that. You can come back to the store another day. You can hand the kid over to your partner. You know it's a temporary situation.

But if you have a child like my eldest, whose behaviors made no sense, who drove you to the point of madness on a constant basis, who never slept and never seemed to be happy except when doing dangerous things... then maybe you can understand the frustration that many of us on this thread are feeling at the judgmental posts about this couple.

Maybe the child described in the OP doesn't have special needs. Maybe the parents had other options. But, maybe things aren't always as they seem, and your judgment towards them is truly unacceptable and harmful.

I was blamed for my eldest child's behaviors. For years, I heard about how I was such a bad parent, how I should discipline him more, how I was screwing up so badly. I lost faith in myself. I am still plagued with self-doubt years later, even though I know now that all those judgmental people were wrong. Those words and attitudes brought significant harm to me and my relationship with my child. I will not forgive those who chose to judge rather than show compassion and understanding. I will sit in judgment of all of you who glare and shake your heads and mumble cruel things about other parents who deserve more care and kindness. You judge me when you judge those other parents who aren't performing to your standards. You judge me when you determine that you know better how to deal with a child that you don't even know. You judge me when you consider yourselves superior because your child never acts in such a manner, but if he did, you know just how you'd deal with it. You judge me. So, I sit here and virtually glare at you in return. I shake my head at your cruelty and thoughtlessness. I mumble about your lack of compassion and understanding. And I promise myself to be extra kind to the next parents I encounter whose heads are spinning and hands are full. Because I'd rather live in a world where we genuinely care about each other than one in which we hurt each other in order to feel better about ourselves.

Wow, somebody who has the same experience, nearly exactly. My second is "high needs" and intense by almost anybody's standards, and I get comments on it from proffessionals who work with special needs kids and laypeople alike, but she is EASY compared to my first.

I don't think people understand who have not been through the intensity of YEARS of severe sleep deprivation and having to somehow continue living.


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## SilverWillow (Dec 23, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennifer Z* 
Wow, somebody who has the same experience, nearly exactly. My second is "high needs" and intense by almost anybody's standards, and I get comments on it from proffessionals who work with special needs kids and laypeople alike, but she is EASY compared to my first.

I don't think people understand who have not been through the intensity of YEARS of severe sleep deprivation and having to somehow continue living.











I get it. sometimes I can't believe I'm still here, as in, in the world.


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## Jennifer Z (Sep 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rainyday* 
Frankly, who really cares what the child's history is or why he was screaming? There were TWO able-bodied parents there. There is absolutely no excuse for that kind of pure rudeness and lack of consideration for anyone (including the screaming child). Was the child special needs? Maybe. Who cares, though? I mean, really, TWO parents and one of them couldn't take him out of the store? Did they need something urgently? Maybe. Then grab a few things and get out of the store and stop making everyone, including your own child miserable. I really, highly doubt that one parent can't handle the child alone because I really, highly doubt that both parents are with that child all day long. In most families, someone has to um, go to the bathroom occasionally or go off to one of those pesky jobs that provide money for hour-long shopping expeditions. I have compassion in all sorts of situations but not in this one. It's rude. End of story.

You are making so many assumptions here. You are assuming the parents are able bodied. They might not be. Even if they look "normal", they might be recovering from surgery and not able to lift, have MS or Lupus or back problems. The second parent might be there to help insure the safety of the child, helping the parent shopping. Going outside might not be a safe option because the child can't be contained like they can in a shopping cart. They might not have a car to take them to, or the car might be a peice of junk that is not an appropriate temperature without the car running. Or, maybe this is the closest thing to "together" time the parents ever get.

And, you know what, there was a time when I couldn't go to the bathroom when I was the lone adult. I had to lock my ds in the bathroom with me because he could not be alone for a momment. I was nearly psychotic from sleep deprivation because he would never sleep more than 3-4 hours at a time, then he would be awake for anywhere from 4-48 hours and I never knew what it was going to be. SO, it is still unreasonably judgemental EVEN IN THIS SITUATION.


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## EVC (Jan 29, 2006)

AverysMomma is my new MDC crush


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## rainyday (Apr 28, 2006)

You know, in a forum that typically has members who pride themselves on looking out for children's needs, I'm really surprised at how many people are willing to defend these parents who were leaving their child to scream for at least an hour while they shopped. Is this really the best situation for that child? Does anyone seriously think that child wouldn't have been happier if her parents would have just taken her home or to the park or somewhere other than where she was so clearly really, really, really unhappy and upset? This wasn't a short emergency shopping trip. This went on for more than an hour. And that child was left to scream miserably for more than an hour. And all our compassion is going to the parents? I'm really boggled by the reactions here.

If the OP had posted about her neighbor leaving a child to scream for that same amount of time at bedtime, all of the people above who are bending over backwards to excuse the parents would have been up in arms about what that poor child was experiencing. Yes, sometimes we have to get some shopping done in really crappy circumstances with a really unhappy child. Most of us have had to do that for one reason or another. But leaving that poor child to scream for at least an hour (and remember, we don't know how long they were really there - it may have been longer) really doesn't seem kind to anyone, most especially the child.


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## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rainyday* 
If the OP had posted about her neighbor leaving a child to scream for that same amount of time at bedtime, all of the people above who are bending over backwards to excuse the parents would have been up in arms about what that poor child was experiencing.

Not true. I wouldn't. I can think of a few instances where letting the child scream at bedtime is the best course of action.

I'm not into demonizing parents for their decisions when I'm not privy to their everyday experiences.


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## EVC (Jan 29, 2006)

Quote:

You know, in a forum that typically has members who pride themselves on looking out for children's needs, I'm really surprised at how many people are willing to defend these parents who were leaving their child to scream for at least an hour while they shopped. Is this really the best situation for that child? Does anyone seriously think that child wouldn't have been happier if her parents would have just taken her home or to the park or somewhere other than where she was so clearly really, really, really unhappy and upset? This wasn't a short emergency shopping trip. This went on for more than an hour. And that child was left to scream miserably for more than an hour. And all our compassion is going to the parents? I'm really boggled by the reactions here.
But we just don't know the situation, do we? I think I am sympathetic because I have been in a similar situation several times myself where dd was SCREAMING, both dh and I were there, and no in fact for various reasons we could NOT "just leave" and one of us could NOT just take dd outside. There were specific reasons for this that a casual onlooker would not have known or necessarily understood. Now, granted, the situations have in some ways been different from what the OP described, but nevertheless I can EASILY imagine someone catching site of the scene and judging me and venting to their friends in much the same way. And I don't feel I would have deserved the judgment especially with no opportunity to defend my actions or explain what was REALLY going on that the person venting perhaps didn't know about. Who knows? I don't know what the parents were thinking. Maybe they really were awful parents and rude customers. Who knows? I don't. But I do know that I could easily find myself the subject of one of these threads some day.

And for that matter, it seems that many of the critics of these parents were not talking about the CHILD'S needs, they were talking about their own inconvenience as shoppers listening to a crying child. And I GET that, I do.

These situations are just crappy to EVERYONE involved: the child, the child's parents, and the other shoppers. But they do happen. And some children are more prone to it than others, for various reasons.

It sucks for everyone. It does. But suck happens. Time to move on.


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## felix23 (Nov 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rainyday* 
You know, in a forum that typically has members who pride themselves on looking out for children's needs, I'm really surprised at how many people are willing to defend these parents who were leaving their child to scream for at least an hour while they shopped. Is this really the best situation for that child? Does anyone seriously think that child wouldn't have been happier if her parents would have just taken her home or to the park or somewhere other than where she was so clearly really, really, really unhappy and upset? This wasn't a short emergency shopping trip. This went on for more than an hour. And that child was left to scream miserably for more than an hour. And all our compassion is going to the parents? I'm really boggled by the reactions here.

If the OP had posted about her neighbor leaving a child to scream for that same amount of time at bedtime, all of the people above who are bending over backwards to excuse the parents would have been up in arms about what that poor child was experiencing. Yes, sometimes we have to get some shopping done in really crappy circumstances with a really unhappy child. Most of us have had to do that for one reason or another. But leaving that poor child to scream for at least an hour (and remember, we don't know how long they were really there - it may have been longer) really doesn't seem kind to anyone, most especially the child.


It is bedtime right now and my three year old is screaming in her room because dh had to leave and go back to work. I tried to go comfort her but she just kicked and hit at me. Since I will not allow her to kick and hit me I left her in her room. When she wants me to come cuddle her I will. She can even come out of her room and stay up if she wants to, but right now she just wants to lay in her bed and cry. So if anyone didn't know the whole situation, it would look like I am CIO, but I'm not and never have.


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## EVC (Jan 29, 2006)

Quote:

If the OP had posted about her neighbor leaving a child to scream for that same amount of time at bedtime, all of the people above who are bending over backwards to excuse the parents would have been up in arms about what that poor child was experiencing.
Dunno. If I were certain it were some kind of ritual sleep training on the part of the parents, I guess I would condemn it. But how would I know?

And FWIW, my little angel can turn into a MONSTER when she's tired and has been known to SCREAM for a good half hour or so at bedtime. When she was an infant, it was NOT a rare occurance for her to scream for well OVER an hour straight at bedtime (as well as at other times). At one point, we DID have a concerned neighbor knock on the door because she had been crying so loudly for so long. I guess it's nice to have such concerned neighbors, but lemme tell you, it was MORTIFYING. And I assure you, we have NEVER CIO'ed. NEVER. And we have co-slept since the day dd was born and continue to do so to this day. But I can see how our neighbors through the years could EASILY get the wrong impression about the bedtime hysterics.


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## honey-lilac (Jun 30, 2009)

I got to the point where I was quoting so many posts that I just had to erase all the quotes and just write.

Basically. I was the mother whose kid didn't stop crying for the first year of his life. I had to jump up and down with him in the Moby for him to be even slightly comfortable. People looked at me like I was nuts and gave me lectures about how I was giving him brain damage.

I also often had DH in the store with me. But just because you SEE two parents, doesn't mean that there are two functional parents in the store. DH has certain mental issues of his own where he cannot take the stress of being responsible for DS. I was in the hospital when DS was four months and I had to leave AMA because DH called me to say he couldn't handle DS crying and "was about to throw him off the porch." I knew he wasn't really GOING to do it, but he was at that level of stress. I literally pulled the IV's out of my arms, half crawled to the hospital exit, and went home to relieve DH. We had no one else to pitch in and help.

Then we had DD, a super easy baby. BUT although she is a perfect little angel, she ONLY goes with Mommy. DH picks her up and she screams bloody murder, as if she was panicking because she'd never seen him before. DS started taking her cues and he also does this, and cries, "No, Mommy! Mommy help! HELP!! MOMMY!!! I WANT MY MOMMY!!!" - So is DH supposed to drag him out of the door while he's screaming that? How long would it take someone to play the hero in that situation?

And there was no way that I could send DH in to do the shopping. He gets social anxiety and basically I have to be there in a social situation with him. And he loses power of concentration - even if I give him a list of food he comes home with Spam and Cheetos. So yes, sometimes if you see the two of us, me with a baby on my back and DS screaming in the cart... it's easy to assume that DH can just take over and help out. He can't.

As many have said before... don't judge.

And as for the poster who said that since her grocery bills were $250 and up regularly... well good on you! Great that you get that sort of money to spend on food! I still don't think you get to dictate the "clientele" a grocery store can service. It's not like it's a private restaurant where the regulars get the best service. It's a grocery store. People need to shop to eat.


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## honey-lilac (Jun 30, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *felix23* 
It is bedtime right now and my three year old is screaming in her room because dh had to leave and go back to work. I tried to go comfort her but she just kicked and hit at me. Since I will not allow her to kick and hit me I left her in her room. When she wants me to come cuddle her I will. She can even come out of her room and stay up if she wants to, but right now she just wants to lay in her bed and cry. So if anyone didn't know the whole situation, it would look like I am CIO, but I'm not and never have.

Yeah, same here. Tonight DS was screaming BLOODY FREAKING MURDER because I'm trying to push his bedtime forward to 7 pm instead of his usual 6 pm, because I'm tired of him waking up at 4 am. So as a result he is TIRED and CRANKY. He didn't want dinner, he didn't want to play, he didn't even want to watch TV (a special treat for him). He didn't want stories, he didn't want ANYTHING, he just lay there screaming.

And he screams like he's being mauled. He was literally foaming at the mouth, yes, FOAMING AT THE MOUTH while he was screaming "NO MOMMY! NO MOMMY! PLEASE! NO MOMMY! PLEASE NOOOOOO!" Of course all the windows are open because we have no AC and it's 95 plus degrees out here, and the lots are REALLY close together. I was tidying up the downstairs of toys and such because I was so sure CPS was going to be called on us.

Same thing last year right when we moved in, DS had to be literally held down for up to two, three, sometimes four hours while he screamed hysterically - otherwise he would not fall asleep. Period. I was always terrified that the cops would be knocking down our door.

Sigh.


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## GrumpyGranola (Dec 31, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lotusdebi* 
Not true. I wouldn't. I can think of a few instances where letting the child scream at bedtime is the best course of action.

I'm not into demonizing parents for their decisions when I'm not privy to their everyday experiences.

Yeah, I would not judge someone if I had NO CLUE about the situation (like in this case)


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## Kristine233 (Jul 15, 2003)

An answer on why the other "able bodied" parent not taking child out? Perhaps one parent wasn't able to actually care for the child sufficiently? I'll get to that.

For 4 years of DS's life my husband was an over the road truck driver. During that time I went it alone parenting 3 kids, and DS is Autistic. Up to age 4 (still hard after that too) he was a terror in the store. As soon as we stepped inside the door he'd drop to the floor and scream. His body went rigid and there was no consoling him. When my husband was away, I HAD to shop by myself. I had people actually tell me to "shut him up". I couldn't. If I let him out of the cart he ran, and ran, and ran. It simply wasn't safe. He would bolt across the store, hide and it would take half the staff at the store to find him. If outside he'd run into traffic. No family around and no help.

There were times when DH was in town that I needed him to come to the store with me. We don't have a joint checking account (and never will) and he would have to purchase groceries or I needed his help with DS. Since he was only home 2-3 days during the month he didn't know what we needed as a family food-wise. (And when he was driving local he worked very long hours so he really wasn't there and other times I worked nights so the kids were asleep when he was home) I couldn't just give him a list. And he honestly had no clue on how to deal with DS and didn't have the patience for him. He's a great dad, but did what he had to do for work at the time to support us and missed out on a lot of the kids' early years. So I couldn't just ask him to take DS out of the store and I couldn't either. We'd just get done as quickly as possible so we could go home.

Obviously things have changed. We moved and DH changed jobs. Then in Feb DH became a SAHD and is great with the kids. Now I can lean on him for a ton more support. My ILs also moved near and DS has a PCA.

All this has taught me one thing, don't judge other parents. I try to be supportive as I can because I know that no matter how it looks, I don't know the whole story.

More recently I experienced this at a local store. On my way home from work I stopped to shop for dinner. I heard a toddler cry for a good 20 minutes as his dad tried to shop. Dad had his "I'm trying to make it look like nothing is wrong" face on. I'm sure most of you know what I'm talking about, lol. People gave him very dirty looks and a couple comments. He was one isle over at checkout. Everyone just watched him as he struggled with 2 kids, one screaming. I finished checking out first so I put my stuff down and started bagging his groceries for him. After I was done, I gave him a smile and told him I'd been there and turned and walked out. No recognition needed. I was actually pretty disgusted that others just gawked and didn't offer him help. What kind of world is it that everyone is so judgmental and can't offer a bit of help or at least a smile and kind word?


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

i have never seen so much judgement directed at someone for being judgemental. i would wonder wth they was going on too... but the stupid newborn cry they have in the no talking clip in the movie theatre makes me hormonal.. a kid the same age as ds screaming like that would probably upset me too. am i going to judge? probably a little depending on the situation... but for my own peace of mind i wouldn't worry to much about it because i don't need the exta anxiety.

i really don't get the 845 different scenarios that may have been possible. the OP didn't say anyone whose kid cries for more then an hour is a terrible parent so what is with the defensiveness? i have seen parents go about their business while a kid screams... sometimes its pretty obvious they are tuning the kid out... will i judge them? maybe.. but so what? they will never know and i will forget about it ....

if the OP were 100% sure that these were able bodied parents and a child with no special needs who were not in the throes of family tradgedy would anyone feel differently? i mean really... this does happen....its probably way more plausable then any of the other scenarios


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## QueenOfTheMeadow (Mar 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kristine233* 
More recently I experienced this at a local store. On my way home from work I stopped to shop for dinner. I heard a toddler cry for a good 20 minutes as his dad tried to shop. Dad had his "I'm trying to make it look like nothing is wrong" face on. I'm sure most of you know what I'm talking about, lol. People gave him very dirty looks and a couple comments. He was one isle over at checkout. Everyone just watched him as he struggled with 2 kids, one screaming. I finished checking out first so I put my stuff down and started bagging his groceries for him. After I was done, I gave him a smile and told him I'd been there and turned and walked out. No recognition needed. I was actually pretty disgusted that others just gawked and didn't offer him help. What kind of world is it that everyone is so judgmental and can't offer a bit of help or at least a smile and kind word?

That is such an awesome way to help without judgment!! Will you go shopping with me sometime?


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## Magella (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kristine233* 

All this has taught me one thing, don't judge other parents. I try to be supportive as I can because I know that no matter how it looks, I don't know the whole story.









I think this is what many people are trying to get across.

As a mother whose child on numerous occasions screamed for so long and so loudly (while I was right there doing my very best to try to help) that I was afraid that neighbors were going to call the police, I have learned not to judge others because I really don't know what's going on. I cannot know the whole story just by watching one episode in a store, or hearing the crying from next door.

Many of us who advocate for children and believe in looking out for the child's needs and focus on compassion for children, also focus on compassion for the parents of those children as well. Particularly when we don't know the whole story.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kristine233* 
recently I experienced this at a local store. On my way home from work I stopped to shop for dinner. I heard a toddler cry for a good 20 minutes as his dad tried to shop. Dad had his "I'm trying to make it look like nothing is wrong" face on. I'm sure most of you know what I'm talking about, lol. People gave him very dirty looks and a couple comments. He was one isle over at checkout. Everyone just watched him as he struggled with 2 kids, one screaming. I finished checking out first so I put my stuff down and started bagging his groceries for him. After I was done, I gave him a smile and told him I'd been there and turned and walked out. No recognition needed. I was actually pretty disgusted that others just gawked and didn't offer him help. What kind of world is it that everyone is so judgmental and can't offer a bit of help or at least a smile and kind word?

This is wonderful! How compassionate and kind. I have so appreciated the occasional kind word of support from other parents, those words mattered so much. I wish there were more people like you out there.


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## QueenOfTheMeadow (Mar 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1littlebit* 
i have never seen so much judgement directed at someone for being judgemental. i would wonder wth they was going on too... but the stupid newborn cry they have in the no talking clip in the movie theatre makes me hormonal.. a kid the same age as ds screaming like that would probably upset me too. am i going to judge? probably a little depending on the situation... but for my own peace of mind i wouldn't worry to much about it because i don't need the exta anxiety.

i really don't get the 845 different scenarios that may have been possible. the OP didn't say anyone whose kid cries for more then an hour is a terrible parent so what is with the defensiveness? i have seen parents go about their business while a kid screams... sometimes its pretty obvious they are tuning the kid out... will i judge them? maybe.. but so what? they will never know and i will forget about it ....

if the OP were 100% sure that these were able bodied parents and a child with no special needs who were not in the throes of family tradgedy would anyone feel differently? i mean really... this does happen....its probably way more plausable then any of the other scenarios

I think there is a certain amount of defensivness from those of us who have been in that situation, and despite our every effort, our kid is still "that kid" and we are still "that parent." Trust me, we know that we are being looked at and judged. We've seen the looks, we've gotten the comments, and we've read the threads.

And for us, no, it isn't more plausable that it's just a bad parent. It's more plausable that there is something going on that a stranger is aware of. Because, after all, we don't know the situation, so why assume the worse? Why is assuming that the parents are doing their best any worse than assuming they aren't? I guess it's a glass half full/half empty kind of question.

I don't think the OP was being judgemental. I think she was genuinely asking

Quote:

What, if anything, would you all have done in this situation?
She's been given different reasons why the parents might not have been neglectful of their child's needs, and she's been given ideas of what she could or shouldn't do with regards to it. She asked a question and was given an answer.


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

I wonder what exactly gives anyone the impression that they have the right to shop without being disturbed. Whatever the definition of disturbed is- in public places I don't feel we have that right. It just makes me incredibly sad. I have not had near the difficult children that some posters have but I well remember being on the verge of insanity from sleep deprivation w/ my first. I remember being on the verge of sanity w/ my second who arrived 2 days after my house burned down. We were doing our best to survive and had someone had the audacity to throw a tantrum and go to the manager of a store because my children were disturbing them it would have been the last straw. Why judge these people, huh? What good does it do? Yes, it was an uncomfortable experience for all involved I am sure but what positive thing comes from stressing over it. What positive does it bring for anyone to sit there and talk about what they would have done and what horrible parents they must be.


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## mrs joe bubby (Mar 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kristine233* 
More recently I experienced this at a local store. On my way home from work I stopped to shop for dinner. I heard a toddler cry for a good 20 minutes as his dad tried to shop. Dad had his "I'm trying to make it look like nothing is wrong" face on. I'm sure most of you know what I'm talking about, lol. People gave him very dirty looks and a couple comments. He was one isle over at checkout. Everyone just watched him as he struggled with 2 kids, one screaming. I finished checking out first so I put my stuff down and started bagging his groceries for him. After I was done, I gave him a smile and told him I'd been there and turned and walked out. No recognition needed. I was actually pretty disgusted that others just gawked and didn't offer him help. What kind of world is it that everyone is so judgmental and can't offer a bit of help or at least a smile and kind word?

The kind of world where people have done this and it hasn't turned out well? We were in the grocery store awhile back with a momma trying to herd her 4 children through the shopping trip alone, 1 babe in the top of the buggy, 2 toddlers, one slightly older child. They were all in various stages of melting down and Mom looked like she was about to melt down herself. People were staring and shaking their heads. At the checkout I smiled at her and offered her to take my place at the front of the line. My baggy was packed, she would have been waiting behind me forever. She took it, but rolled her eyes and kind of huffed at me, then I got to wait behind her while one of the children made very rude remarks to the mom about my tattoos and clothes.







She then turned around and rolled her eyes at me again as she left. She obviously didn't want my kindness or my help, maybe not every stranger in the store does.


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## mrs joe bubby (Mar 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama* 
I wonder what exactly gives anyone the impression that they have the right to shop without being disturbed. Whatever the definition of disturbed is- in public places I don't feel we have that right. It just makes me incredibly sad.

So would it be okay if I, or any other adult, walked around a grocery store screaming nonstop for an hour? Do I have the right to do that, if no one else has the right to shop without being disturbed? Shopping certainly makes me want to scream sometimes.


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## honey-lilac (Jun 30, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mrs joe bubby* 
So would it be okay if I, or any other adult, walked around a grocery store screaming nonstop for an hour? Do I have the right to do that, if no one else has the right to shop without being disturbed? Shopping certainly makes me want to scream sometimes.

Seriously? You have to question the difference between an adult and a baby?

And if you had a disability in which you couldn't help but scream, yes, you would have the "right" to shop while screaming.


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## honey-lilac (Jun 30, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mrs joe bubby* 
The kind of world where people have done this and it hasn't turned out well? We were in the grocery store awhile back with a momma trying to herd her 4 children through the shopping trip alone, 1 babe in the top of the buggy, 2 toddlers, one slightly older child. They were all in various stages of melting down and Mom looked like she was about to melt down herself. People were staring and shaking their heads. At the checkout I smiled at her and offered her to take my place at the front of the line. My baggy was packed, she would have been waiting behind me forever. She took it, but rolled her eyes and kind of huffed at me, then I got to wait behind her while one of the children made very rude remarks to the mom about my tattoos and clothes.







She then turned around and rolled her eyes at me again as she left. She obviously didn't want my kindness or my help, maybe not every stranger in the store does.

That's sad. You did the right thing, though, and if the situation cropped up again I'd hope you'd do the same thing. Sometimes kindness is not taken well, but that's not your fault. Just keep doing the right thing.


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

QueenOfTheMeadow said:


> I think there is a certain amount of defensivness from those of us who have been in that situation, and despite our every effort, our kid is still "that kid" and we are still "that parent." Trust me, we know that we are being looked at and judged. We've seen the looks, we've gotten the comments, and we've read the threads.
> 
> And for us, no, it isn't more plausable that it's just a bad parent. It's more plausable that there is something going on that a stranger is aware of. Because, after all, we don't know the situation, so why assume the worse? Why is assuming that the parents are doing their best any worse than assuming they aren't? I guess it's a glass half full/half empty kind of question./QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## mrs joe bubby (Mar 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kaleanani* 
Seriously? You have to question the difference between an adult and a baby?

And if you had a disability in which you couldn't help but scream, yes, you would have the "right" to shop while screaming.

Well, not questioning the difference between an adult and a baby. What I was getting at is I DO have a disability that would be seriously affected by listening an hour of prolonged screaming in an enclosed place. I would not be able to complete my shopping that day and get food for my family. Just questioning why the adults with the screaming person have rights but according to some posters, I do not. That is very confusing to me.


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## Kristine233 (Jul 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mrs joe bubby* 
The kind of world where people have done this and it hasn't turned out well? We were in the grocery store awhile back with a momma trying to herd her 4 children through the shopping trip alone, 1 babe in the top of the buggy, 2 toddlers, one slightly older child. They were all in various stages of melting down and Mom looked like she was about to melt down herself. People were staring and shaking their heads. At the checkout I smiled at her and offered her to take my place at the front of the line. My baggy was packed, she would have been waiting behind me forever. She took it, but rolled her eyes and kind of huffed at me, then I got to wait behind her while one of the children made very rude remarks to the mom about my tattoos and clothes.







She then turned around and rolled her eyes at me again as she left. She obviously didn't want my kindness or my help, maybe not every stranger in the store does.

An act of kindness isn't about getting recognition or the other person appreciating it. Its about you doing what you know is right and feeling better for offering the help. Sometimes people are appreciative, sometimes they are indifferent and sometimes they are so frazzled they don't know how to respond to your acts appropriately. It could be that she thought you were only doing it to get her out of there faster so you didn't have to listen to her kids. Or she thought you were judging _her_ in some way. There are many reasons why you got a bad reaction. But _you_ know you did the right thing in trying to be nice, and that's all that matters. Later she may have looked back, less frazzled, and felt bad for the looks she gave you and rethought her own actions. You don't know that.


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mrs joe bubby* 
Well, not questioning the difference between an adult and a baby. What I was getting at is I DO have a disability that would be seriously affected by listening an hour of prolonged screaming in an enclosed place. I would not be able to complete my shopping that day and get food for my family. Just questioning why the adults with the screaming person have rights but according to some posters, I do not. That is very confusing to me.

that must be really difficult







i can only speak for myself and i know this is probably going to sound selfish, though i don't mean to be this way, but if i am out somewhere and ds starts to melt down the possibility of someone being unable to deal with the noise he is making is totally not going to cross my mind. i have a screaming toddler in the grocery store and i need to get food.. there is no way in he!! i am going to prolong the outing by taking him outside unless it is absolutely necessary. it is hard enough for me to get us both out the door and to the store one time... it would be a week before we got to the store again. half the time when that happens i don't end up with half the stuff i need (and i do end up with a bunch of stuff i don't) b/c i am so distracted by him that i can't focus on what i am doing.

i am not sure how we are all supposed to take every possible situation into consideration when we are out in public. i guess i am of the opinion that when you are in a public place there are going to be things that are beyond your control. i don't know how we would accommodate everyone.. look at this thread... you have a disability that makes it impossible to tolerate constant loud noise, other people have children with special needs who are more prone to tantrums and meltdowns that would escalate if they were picked up or taken outside, i am a sahm with ADD and toddler who doesn't like to be confined to a cart.... how do all of us coexist if we all expect to have 'rights' that are at odds with each other?


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

i have realised something.

how much being a mother has changed me.

how it has really brought compassion into my life.

if this incident happened before i was a parent, i would probably be really judgemental.

but these days it brings up compassion. judgement does not even enter into my thoughts. even things that are hard for me to see - extremes.

i always see anyone as trying to do the best they can at that particular point.

plus having volunteered in organisations where i have seen parents with two three jobs adn still trying to take care of their children - i am so sad and MAD at the government for not supporting our parents so that they CAN be parents.

if i had been at that store (and i have been in similar situations) i would have held a 'support thought' in my heart for the whole family. for the child who was crying and for the parents who had to be there inspite of the crying. and if i passed those parents i would have given them my best 'i soooo understand what you are going thru' compassionate look. perhaps they had no food and chose this time when there were less people in the store to do the shopping.

btw it would never have entered my mind its late for a child. till 6 my dd never went to bed anytime before midnight.


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## Kristine233 (Jul 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mrs joe bubby* 
Well, not questioning the difference between an adult and a baby. What I was getting at is I DO have a disability that would be seriously affected by listening an hour of prolonged screaming in an enclosed place. I would not be able to complete my shopping that day and get food for my family. Just questioning why the adults with the screaming person have rights but according to some posters, I do not. That is very confusing to me.

Then you do what you have to do and whats right for you. There have been times I haven't been able to finish shopping either, I've left carts in the store and left (and gone to another store). Not due to screaming but due to anxiety or overstimulating because its too busy. My needs do not trump the needs of others, therefor I remove myself from the situation if I can't handle whatever it is that is triggering me.


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## LuxPerpetua (Dec 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1littlebit* 
i am not sure how we are all supposed to take every possible situation into consideration when we are out in public. i guess i am of the opinion that when you are in a public place there are going to be things that are beyond your control. i don't know how we would accommodate everyone.. look at this thread... you have a disability that makes it impossible to tolerate constant loud noise, other people have children with special needs who are more prone to tantrums and meltdowns that would escalate if they were picked up or taken outside, i am a sahm with ADD and toddler who doesn't like to be confined to a cart.... how do all of us coexist if we all expect to have 'rights' that are at odds with each other?

I really liked this as it really echoes what I've been thinking lately about so many societal issues at large--sometimes you have conflicts in which one person's right to say something infringes upon someone else's right not to hear it, ya know? I don't have any answers to that other than at that point you sometimes have to just take care of your own business (whether that is having a less than ideal shopping trip or removing yourself from the situation) and just chalk it up to a bad day. I guess I just feel like if you have no idea why a child is crying and you can't think of anyway to help and the noise is really bothering you, well, all you can take care of in that situation is your end of the equation. I think it would be a better world if more often _compassion_ would take precedence over _rights_.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1littlebit* 
i am not sure how we are all supposed to take every possible situation into consideration when we are out in public. i guess i am of the opinion that when you are in a public place there are going to be things that are beyond your control. i don't know how we would accommodate everyone.. look at this thread... you have a disability that makes it impossible to tolerate constant loud noise, other people have children with special needs who are more prone to tantrums and meltdowns that would escalate if they were picked up or taken outside, i am a sahm with ADD and toddler who doesn't like to be confined to a cart.... how do all of us coexist if we all expect to have 'rights' that are at odds with each other?

This is exactly it.

Each side seems to be saying "well I can't because of _this_ and you should because of _this_..." and no matter how much they say the other should be being non judgmental or open they themselves aren't. We're human is what it comes down to. But I think we all need to step back and take everyone here into consideration.


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

i am always surprised about what rights people think they should have... and what rights they think other people should not have. it really comes down to intolerance and entitlement. people in the US imparticular are very into their 'rights' and i think this is so dangerous.

take NIP.. most of us would agree that a mother has the right to NIP... but there are people who think it is their right to not see a woman NIP. not to different from this thread... does a crying child have a right to be in public or do people have the right to not listen to a crying child? do parents have the right to refuse vaccinations or do the parents of a vaccinated child have the right to not have unvaxed kids in daycare with their kids? IMO rights are restricted to your own actions... someone who doesn't like NIP has the right to avert their eyes or leave yk? of course not everything is that strait forward but it is a pattern i have noticed and find very disturbing


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1littlebit* 
i am always surprised about what rights people think they should have... and what rights they think other people should not have. it really comes down to intolerance and entitlement. people in the US imparticular are very into their 'rights' and i think this is so dangerous.

take NIP.. most of us would agree that a mother has the right to NIP... but there are people who think it is their right to not see a woman NIP. not to different from this thread... does a crying child have a right to be in public or do people have the right to not listen to a crying child? do parents have the right to refuse vaccinations or do the parents of a vaccinated child have the right to not have unvaxed kids in daycare with their kids? IMO rights are restricted to your own actions... someone who doesn't like NIP has the right to avert their eyes or leave yk? of course not everything is that strait forward but it is a pattern i have noticed and find very disturbing

I agree.

We just get so absorbed in ourselves and in our own situations it becomes a battle rather than living life and allowing others to live theres. We really do feel like every little thing must be a fight to the finish. We must advocate for this and this and that at every waking moment. Whatever happened to just live and let live? We don't have to make a statement every single time. If you hear a child crying and supposedly being allowed to cry by his parents why is it so important something be said or done? Same goes for if it is your child doing the screaming and someone comes to you with a nasty look or word or two- why does anything need to be argued at that point? It is what it is. Who knows, maybe that person has had a horrible day in which their mother died and wanted to shop in peace. You really do never know. But we point the finger "well you shouldn't be doing this!" when in truth who are we really to say with issues like this? On all fronts- excepting our own- we have no idea. So why not just focus on our own?

I think NIP is a great example. It's like we can't even just sit and nurse our babies in public because we have one side insisting it be a form of activism every last time ("don't use a cover or your feeding into their over sexualization of breasts" "do it where people can see so they know it's normal" etc) and then those who don't want to see it at all and deem it inappropriate for all. Uh why can't it just be about nursing our kids? I am not interested in drawing battle lines when my kids are hungry in public or cranky or whatever else. I just am doing what I need to do. That's what it comes down to or at least should.

When you need to go shopping just do your shopping. There are going to be inconvenience and people acting like jerks. Such is life. But you know their rights are no different than your own and yours just aren't as important as theirs.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1littlebit* 
i am always surprised about what rights people think they should have... and what rights they think other people should not have. it really comes down to *intolerance and entitlement*. people in the US, in particular, are very into their 'rights' and i think this is so dangerous.









:

I have been saying the same thing, particularly about 'USA-ans', for a very long time. Intolerance and a sense of entitlement are big problems in this 'me-first' country.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Purity♥Lake~* 







:

I have been saying the same thing, particularly about 'USA-ans', for a very long time. Intolerance and a sense of entitlement are big problems in this 'me-first' country.

You really rocked the nutshelling here!









Needless to say I agree.


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## KirstenMary (Jun 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Magella* 
I don't think I'm entitled to shop anywhere without hearing children cry. All sorts of things happen when I'm shopping that bother me. I've found myself quite disturbed by adults who are unaccompanied by kids. The fact is, they all have as much right to be there as I do. It's a grocery store. It's loud. All sorts of people are there. Things happen. I'm not entitled to a peacefully zen shopping environment every time.

I don't enjoy hearing kids cry, who does? I'd be willing to bet the people _most_ disturbed by it were those parents.

Reading this has made me so sad.

I agree. To heck with anyone else. I am confident in how I parent, and if anyone wants to judge me, let 'em.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *purplemoon* 
Word.

Adults bother me more mostly. The cellphone screaming (talking) constantly so I can't hear myself think, the cart bumper, the person who should have bathed, whatever. Shopping was and has never been my spa day.

And the clarification by the OP is probably that these people were jerks, but from so many posts and so much misery from moms about leaving the house, I think we all have learned a bit more compassion in general.

That's a good thing.

I agree.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *magstphil* 
The judgment on this thread.







:

These thread always make me laugh. You got a poster venting about whatever not necessarily saying the parents are evil or horrible or need to be shot but being judgmental, yes. We're human, it's what we do. But then you get the _real_ judgment- "how dare you judge! Why I think I am going to sit here and judge you harshly for judging." and that is different how?.... And it often gets blown out of proportion as if this mom said in her OP these people should have their child ripped away from them.










We can't just leave it at "I disagree. This could be a different way to look at it _____"? Why the personal comments about the posters who are suspicious/annoyed by the behavior in the OP? We can't just give the benefit of the doubt in both cases and look on both sides?

I dunno I just think maybe we should all take a step back and really think about the people involved on all sides.









Yep.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rainyday* 
Who said anything about taking her to a corner? *I said take her outside. And I still stand by it.* If I saw you and your partner wandering the store for at least an hour while your child screamed hysterically, and you both seemed like normal, functioning adults holding a conversation (like the OP heard), then, yep, I'd judge. And I rarely judge people with screaming kids in stores. I only get judgemental when I see someone being incredibly inconsiderate of either their child or every single other person in that store in really rare circumstances like the OP's. Parent by herself with screaming kid? Nope, I don't judge that (unless I see parent mocking the child or something similar). Parent who seems zoned out pushing screaming child through store without interacting with it? I don't judge that. But with two adults who are functional enough to walk and talk normally, I can't imagine the scenario where they both must be in that store together with the screaming child for an hour. For 20 minutes? Sure, I can come up with scenarios for that one - but an entire hour doesn't say to me that the parents were rushing to get some essentials or even rushing to get the week's groceries.

Really???? What if the parents had no car? What if it were raining? Or snowing? Would you banish a child to inclement weather for your own comfort? And how do you know anything about the functioning ability of the adults? All you can see is a superficial assessment from a grocery shopping perspective, and that's hardly enough to make any kind of diagnosis.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *magstphil* 
I agree.

We just get so absorbed in ourselves and in our own situations it becomes a battle rather than living life and allowing others to live theres. We really do feel like every little thing must be a fight to the finish. We must advocate for this and this and that at every waking moment. Whatever happened to just live and let live? We don't have to make a statement every single time. If you hear a child crying and supposedly being allowed to cry by his parents why is it so important something be said or done? Same goes for if it is your child doing the screaming and someone comes to you with a nasty look or word or two- why does anything need to be argued at that point? It is what it is. Who knows, maybe that person has had a horrible day in which their mother died and wanted to shop in peace. You really do never know. But we point the finger "well you shouldn't be doing this!" when in truth who are we really to say with issues like this? On all fronts- excepting our own- we have no idea. So why not just focus on our own?

I think NIP is a great example. It's like we can't even just sit and nurse our babies in public because we have one side insisting it be a form of activism every last time ("don't use a cover or your feeding into their over sexualization of breasts" "do it where people can see so they know it's normal" etc) and then those who don't want to see it at all and deem it inappropriate for all. Uh why can't it just be about nursing our kids? I am not interested in drawing battle lines when my kids are hungry in public or cranky or whatever else. I just am doing what I need to do. That's what it comes down to or at least should.

When you need to go shopping just do your shopping. There are going to be inconvenience and people acting like jerks. Such is life. But you know their rights are no different than your own and yours just aren't as important as theirs.

I've never seen anyone say you MUST refuse to cover up, every time you nurse it needs to be a form of activism, etc. I've seen people say they do not want to cover up nor be told to do so by others, but I've never seen what you are describing.

And I think the difference btw NIP and this situation is that people perceive the child as suffering. I mean, I don't agree with the OP's interventions, but I also don't go along with the 'no judgment ever' when it gets into territory in which infants or children are being treated poorly, and we are supposed to ignore it or be judgmental. Kwim?


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
but I also don't go along with the 'no judgment ever' when it gets into territory in which infants or children are being treated poorly, and we are supposed to ignore it or be judgmental. Kwim?

i have always wondered about this. i don't really get the whole no judgement thing.. mostly b/c i think everyone judges... i don't know how you wouldn't .. i mean every post in this thread that disagrees with the OP is just telling her to reach a different conclusion when she judges.. not to not judge at all.

but i have noticed that there is a tendency towards minding your own business, not judging, and assuming the best. if i could think of a thread title i would start one but i would love to know if everyone thinks you should always assume the best and or what. i kind of want to know how people just don't judge.. that doesn't really make sense to me.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1littlebit* 
i have always wondered about this. i don't really get the whole no judgement thing.. mostly b/c i think everyone judges... i don't know how you wouldn't .. i mean every post in this thread that disagrees with the OP is just telling her to reach a different conclusion when she judges.. not to not judge at all.

but i have noticed that there is a tendency towards minding your own business, not judging, and assuming the best. if i could think of a thread title i would start one but i would love to know if everyone thinks you should always assume the best and or what. i kind of want to know how people just don't judge.. that doesn't really make sense to me.


Yeah, we all make judgments, all the time and there is nothing wrong with it.
It is natural and healthy and in many cases keep us and others safe from harm.
I don't know when having good judgment became a bad thing.

I don't think the 'bad' comes from making a sensible judgment.
I think the 'bad' thing would be how you choose to use the information.

We all make judgments and we should be.
I'd be afraid when we all stop thinking for ourselves, instead blindly following the crowd with our brainwashed responses.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
I've never seen anyone say you MUST refuse to cover up, every time you nurse it needs to be a form of activism, etc. I've seen people say they do not want to cover up nor be told to do so by others, but I've never seen what you are describing.

There have been threads here on MDC saying this very thing. Try Lactivism though they may be locked and gone as they got heated. Though you can ask some of the conservative Christian mamas as they were there defending covering.

Pretty much just







: to the two above posts.


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## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
830 pm means nothing. I was out shopping with my own kids until that time last night. Mine go to bed at 10. There is no magic *ding ding ding* that makes kids exhausted by 8pm.

agreed. the time of day wouldn't faze me. kids have different bedtimes.

the fact that the kid had 2 parents present does suggest one of them could've taken him out. then again, maybe they had been dealing with a screaming kid all day (teething/sick/who knows), and neither one of them could be left alone with him anymore because they were both about to snap...kind of like how when DD is screaming her head off in the bathtub, sometimes i have to have DH with me (or vice versa)--just for moral support.

sure, it isn't ideal to let him scream like that, but without more background info we can't say for sure it wasn't the best option they had.


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## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pinksprklybarefoot* 
I try not to judge other parents too harshly - I just don't have enough information. Who knows what is going on in their lives that necessitates a large grocery shop at 8:30 PM? Heck, who knows if they were even both parents of the child? It could have been the child's mom and her brother (who is not good with kids), and he is taking her grocery shopping because she doesn't have a car. And maybe she doesn't have a car because her husband was just killed in a car accident and their car was totaled. In that case, maybe they thought it would be better to just power through the shopping, kid screaming or not, because the uncle isn't willing to take the child outside, but also doesn't know what groceries to buy. And if things are this bad, your screaming child is just one more thing on top of a big pile of crap that has just happened.


i think you should write tv shows







--this is really elaborate and interesting. point well taken!


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## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Magella* 
Not all kids have different cries, though. One of mine had the same cry for _everything_, and it was the "someone is ripping my arms off" kind of cry.

yes, yes, yes! mine cries like that! i've always felt deficient as a mother that i can't discern her cries, but it's always HORRIBLE, like she's being tortured, no matter what it's about! this made me laugh so hard i almost peed my pants, btw


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## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennifer Z* 
*Your "right" to shop in quiet does not outweigh the actual, true rights of people who are disabled (and their caregivers) to participate in life and shop without being criticized, degraded and hassled. For those of you who would actually have the audacity to complain to the store and "take your business elsewhere", you are acting like the people who refused to eat someplace because they "allowed" a black person to eat there. It is truly disgusting.*

this is a really interesting perspective. thank you for sharing it, and i agree with you.


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## valerie mom of 4 (Jul 9, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lifeguard* 
Can't say I'm sympathetic. With two sets of hands someone could have taken that poor child out of the store (regardless of the reason for the tears) to at the very least show some respect for everyone else in the store. Unacceptable in my books.


I agree


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## mrs joe bubby (Mar 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1littlebit* 
that must be really difficult







i can only speak for myself and i know this is probably going to sound selfish, though i don't mean to be this way, but if i am out somewhere and ds starts to melt down the possibility of someone being unable to deal with the noise he is making is totally not going to cross my mind. i have a screaming toddler in the grocery store and i need to get food.. there is no way in he!! i am going to prolong the outing by taking him outside unless it is absolutely necessary. it is hard enough for me to get us both out the door and to the store one time... it would be a week before we got to the store again. half the time when that happens i don't end up with half the stuff i need (and i do end up with a bunch of stuff i don't) b/c i am so distracted by him that i can't focus on what i am doing.

i am not sure how we are all supposed to take every possible situation into consideration when we are out in public. i guess i am of the opinion that when you are in a public place there are going to be things that are beyond your control. i don't know how we would accommodate everyone.. look at this thread... you have a disability that makes it impossible to tolerate constant loud noise, other people have children with special needs who are more prone to tantrums and meltdowns that would escalate if they were picked up or taken outside, i am a sahm with ADD and toddler who doesn't like to be confined to a cart.... how do all of us coexist if we all expect to have 'rights' that are at odds with each other?


I don't have an answer to your questions... but thanks for your kind reply and enlightening answer.


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## NettleTea (Aug 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BellinghamCrunchie* 
DD's friend (4 years old) with sensory issues skinned his knee at our house. He literally sobbed for 2 straight hours. There was nothing that could comfort him (*and he had 4 adults trying*). I'm sure the neighbors thought "someone should pick that child up!" or "what's wrong with those parents! Why don't they DO SOMETHING!!!"

Who knows what the child's history is, and whether the parents were handling it to the best of their abilities or were neglectful. I only know that I, as a stranger, have way less information than they do, and compassion for the whole family is rarely the wrong response.

See, there's the difference - your situation involved the adults actually _trying_ to comfort the child.


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## childsplay (Sep 4, 2007)

Wow, they had it easy! TWO parents and only one screaming/tired child. I'd give my right eye to have my DH with me in the grocery store when one of my kids pitches a fit!! I'd be more than happy to leave the shopping to dh and take the screaming child for a walk and a snack outside, or visa versa!
Why didn't one of them do that?? How mean, poor little guy probably just didn't want to be GROCERY SHOPPING AT BEDTIME!
Another thing....when I worked as a cashier years ago, I'd fasttrack the Mom/Dad with the screaming child through the line. some people would get upset, but tough, the child needs to go home, not stand in a long line.
As a solo shopper with three kids I've had my share of tantrums, as well as my share of nasty comments and dirty looks : ( so I'd never say anything.
What I have done though, when someone's child is totally losing it in the grocery store line is trade spots with them (if I'm ahead), help them bag their groceries, or get my own kids to distract the screaming child (it works more often than not) .
Poor little guy, I hope they took him right home and let him go to sleep!


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## rainyday (Apr 28, 2006)

Oh no! The thread that wouldn't die! It's back!


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## Landover (Oct 12, 2007)

Quote:

How self-absorbed to think you have the right to ruin other people's shopping/dining/whatever.
I just find this odd. Seriously? How self absorbed is anyone else to feel that they are entitled to shop in *public* place without hearing a toddler tantrum?


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## BroodyWoodsgal (Jan 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rainyday* 
Oh no! The thread that wouldn't die! It's back!

O my goodness...I just thought the exact same thing...I had to double take...I was like "MY WORD! Could it BE....wait, IT IS!!!"

I totally thought this thread was locked!!


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## Landover (Oct 12, 2007)

Oh how funny!! I didn't notice the dates!









I don't have time to check in here but a couple times a week and certainly didn't have time to read through the whole thing.


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