# do i have the right to sneak meat into my kid's food?



## Lisa Lubner (Feb 27, 2004)

i'm asking this because of a comment i read in another thread about their kids' dark circles getting lighter after adding meat to their diet... i've experienced the same thing myself, so i'm even more concerned.

out of my three kids, the only one who has circles like mine is my oldest (6 year old adam). he is also the only one that absolutely REFUSES to eat meat. he did eat some fish for a little while, but changed his mind. he's not so against eggs, but doesn't like them straight. he generally eats really well; he's the type of kid who asks for raw tofu and extra collard greens. (







)

anyway, if he was older (say, a teenager maybe)... i wouldn't even consider sneaking anything he didn't want into his food. but since he's still little, would it be appropriate considering i've definately noticed a change in the health of myself and my younger two with the additions that i've made to our diet??

thanks


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Depends. I'd try casseroles and things of that sort and not TELL him they have meat, but if he asked I'd be honest.

-Angela


----------



## Lisa Lubner (Feb 27, 2004)

yeah i wouldn't lie. i mean, he's TRIED a bit of chicken and some fish and some scrambled egg... and he just didn't like. so he seems open enough to it. and i've never tried to coerce him into eating something he doesn't really want (for ethical reasons- he DOES have to eat his veggies, haha).

i was thinking more along the lines of trying some broth or something.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Yeah, I'd try it. If he asks and then refuses









Unless he's said flat out that he doesn't want to eat any meat. Then I'd talk to him about eating what our bodies need, and we might try it to see if his body is healthier with it.

-Angela


----------



## Lisa Lubner (Feb 27, 2004)

if anyone asks him if he wants any meat, he usually says "NO, i'm a VEGETARIAN"









the times where he's tried a bit here and there are when he will ask me "what's that?" and i tell him and ask if he would like to try it... usually, he tries a tiny bite and then moves on to his tofu.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

In that case, and given that he's 6, I think I'd discuss my concerns with him and see if he's willing to try some different options.

good luck!

-Angela


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MomiEilis*
if anyone asks him if he wants any meat, he usually says "NO, i'm a VEGETARIAN"









If he's actually being serious, I don't think I'd sneak the meat but would add some other nutritious options to his diet. My son is a picky eater at 4. He drinks eggnog with relish. I use raw milk and a raw egg yolk (fresh from our yard).


----------



## mamaverdi (Apr 5, 2005)

My son will not eat meat. From the time I was pregnant with him: anything fish, chicken, meat, I would eject. Or he would.

He still says he's a vegetarian, but he will make two exceptions: matzah ball soup (has chicken broth) and kosher marshmellows (have fish gellatin).

But that's it. And not with chicken pieces. And since he found out there is veggie chicken broth that tastes like chicken, well, he doesn't really want the chicken broth either.

Anyway, I always make a point to tell him that there is chicken broth in it. Or in whatever he asks for...if there is something in it....

(The dark circles could be not enough iron. You could try giving him blackstrap molasses in water (we call it kid's coffee) or blackstrap molasses bread and see if that helps. Dark circles can also be the sign of an allergy. Or not enough sleep.)

I know I feel better when I eat some meat, but I let my son follow his own conscience with that one.

mv


----------



## Lisa Lubner (Feb 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaverdi*
(The dark circles could be not enough iron. You could try giving him blackstrap molasses in water (we call it kid's coffee) or blackstrap molasses bread and see if that helps. Dark circles can also be the sign of an allergy. Or not enough sleep)

see, i'm not sure that's true (about the iron). after the birth of my second child, i saw a hematologist for a few months afterwards because i had lost a LOT of blood. (my level was a whopping SIX after the birth) i made a point of asking if the dark circles under my eyes had anything to do with having an iron deficiency (because i've had them for as long as i can remember) and she said NO... that it has more to do with heredity and fair skin than anything else. it was definately more pronounced when my levels were so low, but only because my skin was much paler with the blood loss, kwim? and while mine have gotten a bit better since i started eating the fish and whatever else, they are definately still there. i do have a history of being borderline iron deficient, so i do pay attention, and the circles are there whether i'm anemic or not.









maybe i'm worrying too much though. have a look for yourself: http://4alarmfire.blogspot.com/


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

I checked out your pics (cute kids!) and yea, I see the circles. Is it reason to be concerned? I don't know. My DD1 has had them for a long time. I have done various things -- checked with ped, who said not to worry, some kids get them. (good answer? I am not sure.) Took her to my acupuncturist, who told me to have her start eating eggs. She was vegan at the time. I really had to think hard on that one, but then started giving her eggs. Her color improved, but the circles never completely went away. Had her see a different acupuncturist, who specifically worked on kids, and she did some things, which didn't seem to make a difference, and also recommended her eating meat. I was very much not ready to hear that at the time. I am a bit more willing now, although we haven't taken the plunge yet. DD is 4.5 and asks about what food is good for her all the time, and wants to know about meat. (why we don't eat it, etc) I bought some, for me actually (which I haven't been able to bring myself to eat yet!) and I think that she would try some if I were having some. Not sure if she would want to keep eating it, but I guess we will go from there.

ETA: as far as your original question, I would talk to your son about it and work through it together. Talk about your health/nutrition concerns and that you know he isn't keen on eating meat, but that maybe you guys could work together to come up with palatable options. And I would imagine it might be similiar for a 6 yr old -- what my kids don't want one day isn't always consistant with another.


----------



## toraji (Apr 3, 2003)

Dark circles can also be related to food allergies. Check out "Is this Your Child" by Dr. Doris Rapp.

If the child is nutrient deficient, then adding meat may help because it would help balance the immune system. But heck if I know if it's the iron or whatever in animal products that are directly related to dark circles!

I personally would explain straight out to my child if I were in the same situation, that I'd previously thought that our diet was the best for the earth and the animals, but that now I feel that adding some animal product is necessary for our good health and that our health is suffering because we don't eat animal product right now.

Since we switched our diet when DD was still a babe, we didn't have to go through that conversation! We grow our own animal product now and DD is very aware of where her meat comes from.


----------



## reeseccup (Jul 3, 2003)

have you looked into enviromental/airborn allergy causes? I know we get the rings under eyes = food or airborn allergies, once the cause is eliminated they go away.


----------



## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

Hmm, if he's caliming vegetarianism, then how abotu doing some really hard research into the food combining stuff that real vegos have to do?


----------



## edamommy (Apr 6, 2004)

no. certainly not for curing "dark circles", as it's not a proven fact in your case as to WHAT is causing (if anything) the dark circles.

My ds is 3 and I know he would be so upset to find out we snuck him meat.







:


----------



## ColoradoMama (Nov 22, 2001)

Honestly, I think it would be very disrespectful to "sneak" it into his food. Since a vegan diet is not inherently unhealthy, my suggestion would be to examine his diet and try to make it healthier by adding things that would be acceptable. If he is missing something nutritionally, he certainly doesn't need me to fill that deficiency. When he gets older, I'm sure he will be very appreciative of the time you spent trying to help him while still being respectful of his wishes.


----------



## Wolfmeis (Nov 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MomiEilis*
yeah i wouldn't lie. i mean, he's TRIED a bit of chicken and some fish and some scrambled egg... and he just didn't like. so he seems open enough to it. and i've never tried to coerce him into eating something he doesn't really want (for ethical reasons- he DOES have to eat his veggies, haha).

i was thinking more along the lines of trying some broth or something.

If he doesn't have an ethical objection to eating meat, then I say go for it. A lot of food opinions are based on repeated exposure. He may just need to "develop a taste" for it.

Needless to say, I am not a vegetarian. If he did have an ethical problem, then no, I wouldn't sneak it in.

Regardless, I would suggest you do some heavy duty research into our vegan friends' diets. If he only want to eat veggies, then you have to do the due diligence to find out how to provide the full spectrum of nutrients. Meat is an easy way to get some of them in.

May I suggest you start with beans and rice (a LOT)? That provides a complete protein, and it can be vegetarian as well. (I use ham in mine so it's not, but hey.)


----------



## Lisa Lubner (Feb 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe*
Hmm, if he's caliming vegetarianism, then how abotu doing some really hard research into the food combining stuff that real vegos have to do?

sorry i didn't mention it before (i have in other threads)... but i was vegan for 7 years before re-introducing fish into my own diet. the whole food combining/complete protein myth is an outdated one. and protein is the LEAST of my worries. my kids in general eat really well... some of my son's favorite foods to snack on are plain black beans, raw tofu, and collard greens. i've just found that after being vegan for so long, even eating as healthfully as a good vegan should, i was not reeping the benefits that i expected and saw a MAJOR improvement when i introduced (particularly) fish and eggs into my diet. there has been a major improvement in both of my girls, and only a marginal improvement in my son, who eats the least animal by products (no flesh and no eggs, just a TINY bit of dairy).

the only reason i would consider sneaking anything into his food is because i've seen these additions benefit me and my girls (and my ex, btw... who was also vegan for as long as i was). and it isn't just the dark circles, though that's what triggered this thread for me- hearing about another woman's kids' improvement in that area after adding animal foods to their diet, which was also my experience. my son also has behavioral problems that are definately influenced by the food he eats... which is part of the reason we avoid artificial foods and preservatives etc.

anyway, it's the ethics of it all that i'm worrying about. i DO believe he would benefit from making the same changes in his diet that my girls and i did... i just don't know if it's my choice to do it without him really knowing, if at his age i should just let him make this decision. i know there are other areas like schooling and tv etc. that i feel it's on my shoulders to make a decision for him. kwim?


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Lisa,

Do you have any sense of what it is in the meat that you were lacking?

Amanda


----------



## Lisa Lubner (Feb 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ColoradoMama*
Honestly, I think it would be very disrespectful to "sneak" it into his food. Since a vegan diet is not inherently unhealthy, my suggestion would be to examine his diet and try to make it healthier by adding things that would be acceptable. If he is missing something nutritionally, he certainly doesn't need me to fill that deficiency. When he gets older, I'm sure he will be very appreciative of the time you spent trying to help him while still being respectful of his wishes.

thankyou, that's the issue i'm trying to address specifically. i know plenty of ways to improve his already pretty good diet... it's just that we've had such success with me and the girls just by adding (seriously) minimal amounts of animal foods that i believe it would benefit him also. i definately don't think that veganism is inherently unhealthy... my kids were vegan up until very VERY recently, and their diet is still something like 90% vegan, and they are phenominally health kids in most ways. but different people require different things, and in my experience it was NOT the most optimal diet for my health. try as i might, grinding flax seeds for my oatmeal and everything (haha) i just couldn't quite get it to work for me. and i dont believe that i (or my kids) should have to rely on supplements to be healthy. i would rather eat the fish than the fish oil capsules, kwim?


----------



## Lisa Lubner (Feb 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
Lisa,

Do you have any sense of what it is in the meat that you were lacking?

Amanda

for me, specifically, i'm pretty sure it was the EFA's. most of my issues were literally erased when i started eating some good fish once a week or so.

also, i'm hypoglycemic... it's much better now than it was a few years ago.


----------



## Lisa Lubner (Feb 27, 2004)

btw, i think i should also mention that i think we've also benefited from eliminating much of the soy and gluten from our diet, as much as adding other things.

and i am going to look into the food allergies/sensitivities issue with adam, i think that it's pretty likely that he has issues in that area. my mom and my sister are both allerigic to dairy, and my sister has ADHD.


----------



## veganeema (May 31, 2006)

mv...nice to see you on a different thread and to know that you're kiddo is such a highly evolved soul.

so you can tell from my moniker that i'm a little biased about this one, but, as someone from a non-vegetarian (very non-vegetarian, new orleanian) family who, at age 7, decided to go vegetarian and went vegan at 16), i might be able to offer a unique perspective.

i would have been very angry if my parents (who are/were generally supportive, even though they think/thought i am/was nuts) had "sneaked" anything non-veg into my diet--even if it were more a lie of omission than explicit. if your son really doesn't want to eat meat then maybe you should work together to find dead-animal-free diet solutions that satisfy his nutritional needs.

for whatever reason (and i'm not clear on whether he's got definite ethical objections or what), your son has chosen a peaceful diet and that's a choice that should be respected.

michal
vegan eema to izzie bean (thriving vegan almost-three year old)

p.s. had great vegan pregnancy, too!


----------



## Heart.Revolution (Apr 30, 2004)

Quote:

do i have the right to sneak meat into my kid's food?
Nope.

Adam is proud to be a vegetarian. I think you should respect his wishes.


----------



## midwifetx (Mar 16, 2005)

As a non-veg mama of a veggie 6yo (the rest of the children are meat eaters, but non-meat eating is her preference. She has tried meat recently, again, but the taste of it gags her) I know that I have to be really careful to do food combining for her, and it's important to remember to get those veggiekids their B-vitamins. Lack of B vitamins can lead to all kinds of nasty problems, not the least of which are sluggishness and depression! I do sneak my 6yo protein in all sorts of creative ways because she is also not a legume eater. I buy high protein bread products and also mix a little protein powder into her pasta sauces, etc.

Interestingly, the women in my family have a tendency toward an acidic pH which eats away our teeth from the inside and causes nasty anemias, and one way to avoid/mitigate this is to eat no flesh foods. My Babs is most like my side of the family, physically, so it wouldn't surprise me to find that her preference is about doing what is the very best for her body.


----------



## ColoradoMama (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MomiEilis*
thankyou, that's the issue i'm trying to address specifically. i know plenty of ways to improve his already pretty good diet... it's just that we've had such success with me and the girls just by adding (seriously) minimal amounts of animal foods that i believe it would benefit him also. i definately don't think that veganism is inherently unhealthy... my kids were vegan up until very VERY recently, and their diet is still something like 90% vegan, and they are phenominally health kids in most ways. but different people require different things, and in my experience it was NOT the most optimal diet for my health. try as i might, grinding flax seeds for my oatmeal and everything (haha) i just couldn't quite get it to work for me. and i dont believe that i (or my kids) should have to rely on supplements to be healthy. i would rather eat the fish than the fish oil capsules, kwim?

I understand what you're saying. I truly believe that he would respect you more by either what I said before or even by talking to him about why it is that you are concerned and why you would like to modify things. Obviously as a mom, in the end you have to make the decision that you feel is correct! Boy is that a toughy sometimes, eh? I also have a six year old, and we have had many discussions about why we eat the way we do and why I don't want her to have certain things. There are some discussions that we have had to have more than once, but I really feel like she is old enough to have an intelligent discussion about it, KWIM? She "gets" a lot of it and asks really intelligent questions. Good luck. Your kiddo is lucky to have a mom who would put so much though into the situation rather than just act on a knee jerk reaction! You're doing something right, mama!

p.s. I know grinding up flaxseeds can be a real pain. Have you tried just buying a bottle of flaxseed oil and putting it on his food? Or, you can make dressings with it. My kiddos like flaxseed oil on stuff. It's way easier than grinding!


----------



## Heart.Revolution (Apr 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *damedame*
The parent thinking in the best intrests of the child overrides the autonomy of the child.

What a parent wants for their child may not always be what's in the best interest for the child. The bottom line is that Adam WANTS to be a vegetarian. That being said what the parent should do is ensure that their vegetarian child eats well, and does not eat crap foods.


----------



## caitlinsmom (Jun 10, 2004)

I dont know if it is mentioned or not (didnt read the thread) but people who have a milk allergy will (sometimes) have those circles. After cutting out milk and most cheese the circles go compleatly away.
A friend of our families had these for 30 somthing years. Finally someone mentioned it to her, so she stopped drinking milk and eating cheese (Still had yogurt and the like) and they went competly away. She never new she was allergic because this was her only symptom. An allergist confirmed it later on.

Anyway jsut a thought.


----------



## Lisa Lubner (Feb 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ColoradoMama*
p.s. I know grinding up flaxseeds can be a real pain. Have you tried just buying a bottle of flaxseed oil and putting it on his food? Or, you can make dressings with it. My kiddos like flaxseed oil on stuff. It's way easier than grinding!

it wasn't a pain, i just used one of those plug in coffee grinders... it just wasn't doing much (the flax, i mean). the flax oil i never bothered with because it just always goes rancid faster than i use it.


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Lisa,

Does he have an ethical objection or just not want to eat meat? If it's a meat issue, you could try a cod liver oil supplement for the EFAs, vit A and D.

Amanda


----------



## tboroson (Nov 19, 2002)

You know, there are a lot of threads here about sneaking vegetables into a child's diet. Nobody seems to have a problem with the issue when it's kale. Is that any more "respectful" of the child's wishes? Nope. But, you know what, in both cases, with a child that young, it is the parent's responsibility to make sure the child eats healthfully. This boy is showing signs of nutritional deficiency. His mama has every right and even responsibility to attempt to resolve it. He is not old enough to understand the implications of his choice to continue to eschew a class of food that he clearly needs. And he's a growing boy - being nutritionally deficient at this age can be especially dangerous. If he were sixteen, it would be different.

veganeema, it's nice to meet you. Perhaps you'd be interested in introducing yourself and looking around a bit before jumping in so critically.


----------



## Hibou (Apr 7, 2003)

I think a parent has every right to sneak meat (or whatever they deem necessary) into their child's diet. Especially when it comes to their health and well-being. I do it on a regular basis. I don't think that a child has the capacity to make a fully informed decision at that age, and until such a time, it is the parent's job to make those decisions.

Quote:

What a parent wants for their child may not always be what's in the best interest for the child.
Really? I'm of the opinion that most parents _do_ want what is in the best interest of the child.


----------



## ~Megan~ (Nov 7, 2002)

It depends on why he doesn't like it. If its taste then its okay to camoflage it. If its for ethical reasons then its not okay to hide it from him.

However, you could look at some supplements that would make up for the nutrients he might be missing instead of giving him meat.


----------



## Lisa Lubner (Feb 27, 2004)

wowsers. i should know better than to start a thread like this on mdc









anyhow... i want to make it clear that this is not a "would veganism or meat eating be better for my kid" thread. i am of the opinion that my son _would_ benefit from a little bit of fish (or whatever), based on how those additions have positively effected my own health, and the health of my two daughters. there is no question in my mind about it.

the question here is whether or not i have the right to feed him animal products without him knowing. if he were old enough that i thought he was capable of making an informed decision, then i wouldn't dare. but the fact is, he's SIX, and it's on my shoulders to make sure he is healthy. honestly, he has tried a few things with no coercion from me whatsoever, and i think he's (for the most part) rejected them because he's not used to the taste/texture of meat. he is also the only child of mine that was old enough to really absorb all the vegan rhetoric we (the ex and i) fed him his whole life. we were plain with him about why we were vegan, and we have been plain with him about why we aren't anymore. he seems to understand that it is okay to eat animals, IF you need it to be healthy, and IF you do it respectfully. i am not interested in ruling out the possability of introducing foods that are potentially beneficial to his health, purely for the sake of holding onto an ideal that i (and he) have developed an enormous attachement to.

now, considering that i was vegan for the better part of ten years, and FAR from a junk food vegan, i have no need of advice on how to supplement his diet to make it "healthier"... though, i thank everyone who offered suggestions on the subject. with the exceptions of when he visits with his dad or grandparents, he eats NO artificial foods, no preservatives, blahblahblah... he eats (and LOVES) whole grains and veggies and tofu. he takes a kids chewable vitamin on a daily basis. for a kid his age (and this is true of all my kids), he is remarkably tall and strong and energetic. but we do have the dark circles, and we have some behavioral issues. i am sortof really suspecting an allergy issue, because i forgot to mention, he does this snotty snorting mucousy sounding thing as he's going off to sleep.

that said, i do not think the circles are related to the dairy. we eat VERY little dairy, and only started that a few months ago. the dark circles under his eyes have been there long before we introduced ANY into his diet. he usually has almond milk, and the dairy usually comes in the form of raw organic cheese. (unless the ex is visiting and taking them out for pizza- haha)

thanks everyone


----------



## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Since he is willing to *try* meat, my suggestion would be to make bone broth, and make soup out of it with no meat in it.
I'd tell him what was used to make the soup, or at least let him see how you made it. I think bone broths would probably be a pretty good source of whatever he's missing, and is probably more palatable to a vegetarian than outright eating meat.


----------



## gardenmommy (Nov 23, 2001)

You sound like a very thoughtful, concerned mama. It sounds like you are really searching out what is the best plan for your child.

IMHO, if your son is open to eating meat, if you think it is simply a taste/texture sort of issue, then I don't see anything wrong in "sneaking" it into his diet. As a pp has mentioned, no one raises an eyebrow at sneaking in veggies or fruit, because it is assumed that the child simply doesn't have the understanding of the food's benefit to help overcome those taste/texture issues. I don't think it is any different with meat.

If your son has an ethical issue with it, I still would try to work with him on this issue, since you so clearly feel that it would benefit him. At six years old, he is not able to fully understand the ramifications of eliminating a whole food group.

You will come to a decision that respects both of your desires in this situation. It may take some time, but given the amount of respect you obviously have for him, you will be able to find a balance.


----------



## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna*
Depends. I'd try casseroles and things of that sort and not TELL him they have meat, but if he asked I'd be honest.

-Angela









:

I don't see it as any different as "sneaking" veggies into something. I mean I don't chop those onions and celery that small for my health. he sounds open, kinda like if youcould just make it in a way that he didn't hate . . . I wouldn't lie about it but also wouldn't say there is beef in this unles he asked outright.

soups, broths, gravies, cassaroles and one pan dishes (like hamburger helper but from scratch) etc might be good ways to get it in. you can always cook pasta, rice, veggies etc in broth for a little boost.


----------



## Aura_Kitten (Aug 13, 2002)

to the OP (since i've only skimmed the other replies) -- i would suggest trying vitamin supplements before sneaking meat. also offer him pumpkin seeds (as they have many of the same nutrients as red meat).


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

As I've thought more about this thread and read more of your story, MomiEilis, and considering he's six years old, I'd feed him what I thought he needed to eat. I wouldn't lie to him if he asked and I wouldn't be overly cagey, but surely this question does not come up with every meal. Or maybe it does....

Do you have recipe ideas that you think would be palatable to him or do you need suggestions in that department?


----------



## Lisa Lubner (Feb 27, 2004)

suggestions would be VERY welcome.

if i do it, it will probably be a broth thing at first. we use a lot of broth in our household for soups and cooking rice etc...

he does ask me what is in the food we eat, partly because he can be picky when there are many ingredients mixed together. (he likes SEPERATE food, haha) he also is frequently involved in the cooking process.

to klothos... thankyou for the suggestion. we already have a daily chewable vitamin and we eat a variety of seeds in our oatmeal and in our breads. the kids LOVE pumpkin seeds and sunflower seeds in just about everything.


----------



## Heart.Revolution (Apr 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *damedame*
ill remember that the next time my daughter wants to run accross the road

My comment refers to the diet, you don't need to turn it around. Obviously if a child wants to run into the street that is not in their best interest. What kind of parent do you think I am?







:

Quote:

Generally a parent has the ability to know what is better for their kid in terms of nutricion etc
I would like to think so. Since this issue is about whether or not slipping meat into Adam's food to help him with his dark circles and behavior issues will help, I think would be a better idea is to see a nutritionist and see what Adam might be deficient in rather than guessing.

Quote:

not very practicle to be making 2 different sets of meals on a limited budget tho, or time for that matter
MomiEilis stated that they eat mostly vegan...so there would be no need to cook two different meals.


----------



## Aura_Kitten (Aug 13, 2002)

if he's already getting a supplement then i really wouldn't worry about the circles, but if you're still concerned you might ask a nutritionist.


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *klothos*
if he's already getting a supplement then i really wouldn't worry about the circles, but if you're still concerned you might ask a nutritionist.









Not sure that I agree with that. I take the dark circles to mean that he might have a food allergy, and giving him a vitamin that he may or may not be fully digesting will not fix the "problem." For my DD with the dark circles, I am going to attempt to cut the grains, as it seems like the most likely source of a problem. Easier said than done, as she tells me that pasta is her favorite food.







: (also a former vegan child, now eating eggs and some dairy, not meat yet)


----------



## tboroson (Nov 19, 2002)

Lisa, I get a lot of broth into my girls by using it to cook rice or pasta (rice pasta in our case). A meal they *love* is when I boil carrots, turnips, celery, peas, any other veggies I have on hand, in the broth and then add enough rice pasta that it absorbs all or most of the broth. They scarf that down. You could also use it to make miso soup, which is something I would guess your son is already familiar with? You could use homemade bonito (fish) stock or chicken stock for that.

You want to make sure that the broth is homemade (either by you or someone else you know) bone stock, not just grocery store broth. Real stock gels, which makes it inconvenient in canned soups and things. The componants that make it gel, the collagen specifically, are in the skin and bones, which is where all the important nutrients come from. I recall that you're in north-central PA? You should be able to find an Amish farm nearby where you could buy it, if you don't want to make it yourself. If you do want to make it and don't have use for all the meat from buying entire chickens, go to a farmer's market or straight to the farm and ask for bags of chicken parts (backs, necks, feet, even







heads) and use them. Or you could get a few soup bones from a beef farmer.


----------



## talk de jour (Apr 21, 2005)

-


----------



## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

My children are vegetarian by choice, and I wouldnt dream of sneaking meat into their diet. For me, it's a trust issue. Plus I know how upset and angry they would be if they knew I'd done that.

If I really felt that they needed to eat meat (which I don't), I would discuss it with them and try to find a an agreement about a way of adapting their diet to meet their needs.

I'm not a nutritionist, so that's my only input here.


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *talk de jour*
How about looking up the best veggie combinations that will still give him complete proteins (i.e. -- combine legumes and soy?) I think that might be more comfortable than sneaking/fibbing to him.

It's usually not a protein issue that makes people go from veg*n to omni. He may need more B12 than he's getting, more zinc, more retinol. Who knows.

What I didn't appreciate in the OPs initial post is that this is a former vegan family who has begun to incorporate meat into the diet. Everyone in the family who has done so appears to be healthier. The six-year-old recalcitrant was taught to eat a vegan diet and his parents have now changed their minds and have seen health benefits as a result. Since he is six and not sixteen, OP needs to take over parental responsibility to ensure his health.

OP could have him tested for allergies, she could have a mineral panel, a fatty acid panel, a B vitamin panel. She could consult a nutritionist who could offer little but the lab work. She would be at least $1,000 out on that and she still may not have answers. Go to the Healing the Gut tribe to see how much moms struggle for answers even with a lot of lab work. The fact is, even something as seemingly simple as a mineral panel, it is not so simple.

These are all options for OP and if she or anyone would like suggestions on lab work, I can make suggestions on all but the allergies. I don't have a lot of experience there.

OP has found that the rest of the family has started to do better on meat. Six year old would benefit from meat as well, it would appear. If I were in such a position, I would feel bad about it, but I would make sure he had what he needed to be healthy.

This is also a good lesson in talking to children. Around here, why we eat something is "because it is healthy." End of story. If something previously considered healthy ends up in the dog house, so be it, we'll discuss why.

Good luck MomiEilis.

Amanda


----------



## Lisa Lubner (Feb 27, 2004)

thankyou amanda, i really appreciate the advice.









i've considered going to a nutritionist (among other things)... we're just between health insurances at the moment, and i sure as heck can't afford lab fees for now.

i definately think he would benefit from some additional variety in his diet... but i'm not feeling the *sneaking* thing. i appreciate everyone's input, which is why i asked. and again, i don't need advice on food combining. it's more of a moral issue (the sneaking part) than anything else.


----------



## Bia (Oct 21, 2004)

Soy is as common an allergen as dairy... maybe he loves tofu so much because he is craving it, as people often crave foods they are allergic/reactive to. (?)


----------

