# updated, finally! they wanted to induce me tonight... anyone know about placenta calcifications?



## cricketsmomma (Jun 14, 2007)

I'll try to be brief








I'm around 40w5d, no dilation/effacement/anything like that. I have planned for an hbac but DH is starting to be not on board with that. We have a CNM with hosp privileges who has OBs backing her. I love the CNM but hate the obs, so a little while back I found our CPM who I had planned to do the hb with.
Yesterday I had an NST with the CNM and it was fine. We've been wondering about position so today I had a u/s and yes the kid is head down.
Here's the catch - got an AFI of 4.7 (5 is the low end of normal). There are some calcifications on the placenta. The back-up doc wanted to induce tonight... probably would have been around 11 p.m. The CNM said what if I did NSTs every day? Baby and mama are both fine at the moment, why rush to an induction with an unprepared cervix? Doc says there's no reason for me to stay pregnant. Well, if the baby is ok and my body isn't ready... doesn't that make 2 reasons?
Why in the world would you induce an unprepared mama this late at night? so your golf game or bbq on a holiday weekend doesn't get interrupted?
So I'm not so worried about the AFI but I wonder about calcifications. Aren't they pretty normal at the end? I know I don't want to stay pregnant forever so this show needs to get on the road soon, but is it a desperate rush? CPM doesn't seem to think it is either. I don't feel it is. CNM wants to wait too but has all of that doc pressure on her.
I wanted an hbac because I feel like that's the safest option - less intervention is best. But I'm trying to keep DH comfortable too, so I'll compromise. Our CPM will be our doula if we go to the hosp.
Comments? Suggestions? Brilliant ideas? I could use them







:


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## Belle (Feb 6, 2005)

My spidey senses are tingling.

I can't post a lot now, but it doesn't make much sense to induce an VBAC momma with an unripe cervix when both mom and baby are doing fine. It sounds like a recipe for another c/s so your OB doesn't miss his/her holiday.


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## cristeen (Jan 20, 2007)

The fact that the OB is trying to push you for a VBAC induction is a red flag to begin with. On the Friday of a holiday weekend is an even bigger one. If the CNM and the CPM are both in agreement, then the cynic in me would chalk this up to the OB wanting to attend a holiday BBQ.


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## littlebb (Apr 15, 2009)

I have to agree with PP. This is coming purely from gut instincts, not actual birth experience of my own yet. It sounds like you are being pressured from a purely selfish position - the doctor is either protecting him/herself from something 'going wrong' or has something more important to get to over the weekend. Something just doesn't seem right about it, especially since normal gestation is between 38 and 42 weeks. My MW mentioned in one of our appointments awhile back that calcification are normal toward the end - it's when they appear rather early on that they are a concern. The doc saying 'there's no reason for you to stay pregnant'... that just doesn't sit well with me. Best of luck to you, and if you can get them to hold off, it sounds like it would be the best. Hopefully if she has to act as doula for you, she might be able to intervene a little more?


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Doctors get very nervous when they see low AFIs. Calcifications on the placenta are not a huge deal, though. I had some on mine, my friend had some on her placenta with a 38 week baby. And I wanted to add that inducing in the middle of the night is pretty common too. Some people prefer to come in, have Cervadil placed, and then sleep for the rest of the night.


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## Delta (Oct 22, 2002)

Aren't VBAC inductions a big no-no? There are very few docs here who do VBACs and those who do refuse to induce.


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## mamatolevi (Apr 10, 2009)

get in bed and drink a bunch of water and don't get out of bed except to pee for the next few days. I've known a handful of women w/o low fluid on Friday who just needed more water and rest for a couple of days and their "low fluid" went right back up by the following Monday. your fluid levels will likely go right back up. As long as your placenta looks fine, and I don't think you need to worry about calcifications quite just yet unless there are other risk factors going on (I could be wrong), then there's no reason to induce yet.


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamatolevi* 
get in bed and drink a bunch of water and don't get out of bed except to pee for the next few days. I've known a handful of women w/o low fluid on Friday who just needed more water and rest for a couple of days and their "low fluid" went right back up by the following Monday. your fluid levels will likely go right back up. As long as your placenta looks fine, and I don't think you need to worry about calcifications quite just yet unless there are other risk factors going on (I could be wrong), then there's no reason to induce yet.

I'm agreeing with this.

Good luck mama, follow your instincts, do the NSTs if need be, but stick to your guns. An induced vbac is asking for trouble if it's unnecessary...

Keep us posted!


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## notjustmamie (Mar 7, 2007)

I could be wrong, but I thought low fluid wasn't supposed to be diagnosed with just one measurement? It was my impression that if you have a low AFI, the protocol is to have you drink lots and measure again later.

Also, isn't "low fluid" becoming the new "big baby" as a reason for induction _right now_?

Be sure to check out you option and know the risks/benefits before you make your choice.

Good luck on a wonderful birthing experience and a healthy baby!


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## MsBlack (Apr 10, 2007)

the calcifications are NOT an issue, IMO. This is simply not well understood at all by obstetrics, but they act/speak as if they are sure it's a problem. Why would so many women (nearly all) have at least a bit of calcification on placenta if it were a 'problem' (oh right, I forgot! Pregnancy is a DISEASE














.

I would say at this stage that the 'low AFI' is also not a problem. AFI drops by some degree, by this stage of things, for most women--like calcifications, this is just not well understood. And I further would NOT believe the result of 1 u/s concerning AFI. I wouldn't go so far as to say stay in bed while drinking a lot of fluids--but give you the same suggestion that I give all women near birthing time: make sure you are getting as much rest as you actually need, which for most women includes some sort of nap/feet up in the mid day. And just drink what you need--no skimping, no putting it off because of being too busy or you just hate to be running to the bathroom so often-- but there is also no need to force fluids which will only aggravate your kidneys and could result in LESS fluid actually being absorbed (more peeing though!). Tub baths are also reported to help AFI, no experience with this myself tho.

Anyway, ITA with those who said that it's a holiday weekend...ulterior motives are so likely to be involved! The state of your cervix really doesn't have much to do with your birthing day. Sure, MOST women will start with softening/effacement and even some dilation in the weeks prior to birth. And some don't, but go into labor on their 'unripe' cervix and have fine births anyway.

If you really want an HBAC/VBAC, I'd avoid that doc for several days. Daily NSTs are just going to promote fear/distrust, IMO, with no actual benefit.


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## cricketsmomma (Jun 14, 2007)

well I'm still pregnant...
I think I will say ok to a NST for DH's peace of mind. This whole situation sucks. I really believe that everything is fine, but with that tiny fraction of a chance that I'm wrong... oh you can just "what-if" this to death.
We'll see. I feel like the NSTs will add more drama to this but I'm trying to keep DH comfortable too. I hope this works


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Sounds like a good plan to me! I did several NSTs with both girls, mainly because we were freaked out by the sudden lack of movement they both had after their EDDs.


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## Sileree (Aug 15, 2006)

According to a nurse-midwifery text I looked at: "Amniotic fluid determinations are imprecise, practitioners overestimate low volumes by up to 89%."

The NHS of the UK's NICE guidelines: "Pregnancies with reduced amniotic fluid volume and no associated maternal or fetal conditions do not show an increased incidence of obstetric interventions or adverse perinatal outcomes."


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## Asher (Aug 21, 2004)

AFI absolutely varies from u/s to u/s, depending on the tech, the time, babes position, etc. It's crazy. I just went through this from 34-37 weeks b/c one u/s showed a "low normal" AFI. Every single tech (I had to have u/s 1x a week and NST's 2x a week) measured the AF differently. It was crazy. And keep in mind that if there is any body part, cord, etc. in a particular quadrant, they cannot measure that fluid. So you may well have even more fluid in there, just not that they were able to measure. It's also completely common to have fluid decreasing the closer to your due date that you get.

I might also add that even though my last fluid level at 37 weeks was around 7.5cm, when my water actually broke at right around my due date, I lost copious amounts of fluid. More than I ever had with the other three, I might add. Like from the time I got from my house to the hospital, my pants were soaked down to my knees and that was with changing my pad before I left the house b/c I'd been soaked before then, too. I continued losing tons (seriously, sooo sooo much) of fluid until he was actually born. My midwife kept saying how crazy it was that they had me being tested for AFI every week when it was obvious that we had PLENTY of fluid.

Good luck, mama!!!


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

Keep us posted mama, I'm just popping in to see if you've got anyone popping out


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## cricketsmomma (Jun 14, 2007)

well, today's NST was excellent







. The nurse said she wouldn't worry a bit. So tomorrow I'll go for another one... it's a hassle (over an hour each way!) but it's reassuring too. Especially for DH. meanwhile... I'm going to toy with some of these natural induction ideas - but I can't bring myself to drink castor oil!


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## kltroy (Sep 30, 2006)

Hey I just wanted to offer some encouragement to hang in there!! My VBAC was at 41+2 and they were going to induce me b/c AFI was 2. In my case I was in early labor and it all turned out perfectly. As for the calcifications, this is a sign that the placenta is getting old and may not function as well. AFI is also an indicator of this. In fact, after my placenta was delivered the doctor checked it for this (he even let my husband put on some gloves and showed him what he was looking for) - it actually feels "crunchy" if there are a lot of calcium crystals in it. Despite my low AFI, the doctor said mine wasn't in bad shape.

Anyway, I say all this only to say... good for you for doing the NSTs and sticking to your guns. As long as your baby looks good there's no reason you can't let labor start naturally. We're all cheering for your VBAC!!


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## ShwarmaQueen (Mar 28, 2008)

Hold your ground mamma. Keep your senses and get the birth you want (and deserve).


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## cricketsmomma (Jun 14, 2007)

no baby yet...
today's NST was great too!
They're getting antsy. The RN asked me today if I've picked a day to be induced. But today could be 40 weeks! So why why why the panic?????







:
I've tried walking, pressure points, sex, evening primrose (for weeks), visualization, nipple fun, black cohosh... because I figure these all have to be better than pitocin. Nothing made a bit of difference. I'm on my way to walk to my mom's house, it's a mile up the side of a mountain. I wish I wasn't feeling so pushed to get this kid out!
The nurse said today, "You must be so miserable." NO! I feel fine! Then she said some women just can't go into labor. Well, how many of these she's talking about were just left alone and not pestered by their care providers?
Ok, no more venting. I have a walk to take... and a lot of pineapple to eat!


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## Asher (Aug 21, 2004)

They are so used to women coming in begging to be induced at 37 weeks (or before, but don't get me started) b/c they are just miserable and want to be done with it. *rolling eyes*








Glad babe is looking good on the nst's!


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## Turquesa (May 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Asher* 
They are so used to women coming in begging to be induced at 37 weeks (or before, but don't get me started) b/c they are just miserable and want to be done with it. *rolling eyes*








Glad babe is looking good on the nst's!

They used to say this (and still try to) about c-sections. But with c-sections, we learned that the whole "maternal request" line is a myth to justify selling women on them through fear or other tactics.

I'm left to wonder how many women come in begging for inductions versus how many cave in to guilt, fear, and even sales pitches from their doctors: "You know, you'll feel a lot better if we just get this over with. Don't you want to meet your baby _now_?"


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## Asher (Aug 21, 2004)

I don't know about statistics, etc. I am going more on the comments on the mainstream boards that I am on about wanting to hurry up and schedule inductions, etc. just so they can be done. Some even wanting to at 36 weeks for no reason other than that they are so done and ready for it to be over. Great reasons for putting your body through an induction.


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## Turquesa (May 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Asher* 
I don't know about statistics, etc. I am going more on the comments on the mainstream boards that I am on about wanting to hurry up and schedule inductions, etc. just so they can be done.

Yeesh! While I empathize (what woman in her third trimester doesn't??) it's unfathomable to me to want to go through with it. Ugh!


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## lovebug (Nov 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cricketsmomma* 
no baby yet...
today's NST was great too!
They're getting antsy. The RN asked me today if I've picked a day to be induced. But today could be 40 weeks! So why why why the panic?????







:
I've tried walking, pressure points, sex, evening primrose (for weeks), visualization, nipple fun, black cohosh... because I figure these all have to be better than pitocin. Nothing made a bit of difference. I'm on my way to walk to my mom's house, it's a mile up the side of a mountain. I wish I wasn't feeling so pushed to get this kid out!
The nurse said today, "You must be so miserable." NO! I feel fine! *Then she said some women just can't go into labor.* Well, how many of these she's talking about were just left alone and not pestered by their care providers?
Ok, no more venting. I have a walk to take... and a lot of pineapple to eat!

So what happens to them- do they stay pg forever *gasp*

GOOD LUCK mama! i hope all goes well and you get what you want and what will be best!







s


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cricketsmomma* 
The RN asked me today if I've picked a day to be induced. But today could be 40 weeks! So why why why the panic?????

I don't know, but I remember it, and how frustrating it is...

Quote:

I wish I wasn't feeling so pushed to get this kid out!
The nurse said today, "You must be so miserable." NO! I feel fine! Then she said some women just can't go into labor. Well, how many of these she's talking about were just left alone and not pestered by their care providers?























That's such an awful feeling. I spent my last 2.5-3 weeks of pregnancy with ds2 feeling as if I were under siege. The pressure just never stopped.

I'll tell you something. My VBA2C with ds2 didn't work out...but, after my OB told me that he'd drop me if I didn't have the section the next day (I saw him when I was 41w, 4d - had the section the following day), I went home in an indescribably bad frame of mind. I was such a mess that I decided to have a drink...one bottle of cider. An hour later, I was in labour. I don't think there was anything _wrong_ that was causing me to go post-dates. I think that's normal for my pregnancies with dh (he and his brothers were all 43 week babies). However, I do think all the stress people were putting on me to get the show on the road actually prevented my body from being relaxed enough to labour.

So...I'm not advising a drink of cider or anything...but I am advising that you _try_ not to let all this pressure get to you so much. People are ruining your last days/weeks of pregnancy with this nonsense. Try to relax, and forget about inducing labour...at least for a few days. Just relax, laugh, watch a funny movie, whatever...and shake off all that pressure.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Asher* 
I don't know about statistics, etc. I am going more on the comments on the mainstream boards that I am on about wanting to hurry up and schedule inductions, etc. just so they can be done. Some even wanting to at 36 weeks for no reason other than that they are so done and ready for it to be over. Great reasons for putting your body through an induction.









I find that kind of thing really frustrating, but there is still also informed choice/informed consent to consider. I mentioned something to a pregnant woman I knew about induced labour being, by all accounts (ie. pretty much everybody I've ever talked to who has had both - I haven't), more painful than spontaneous labour, general. She was shocked...had been seriously considering an induction, _after her OB pointed out that getting the baby out would end the back pain_, and had no idea that it was in any way different than natural labour...no idea at all.

I'm not saying there are _no_ women who would choose induction (or scheduled section) just to get it over with, even if they were properly informed. I just have strong reason to believe that a large percentage of the ones making that choice _aren't_ properly informed...risks are downplayed, or completely ignored, and benefits are highlighted.


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## kltroy (Sep 30, 2006)

Hang in there! As my boss said to me last year when I was waiting waiting for my baby to make an appearance, "I don't know too much about these things, but I'm pretty sure you're closer now than you were yesterday." Smartass.







I would do my best to stop thinking about things, as much as possible anyway. Oh - and make some plans for later in the week - like a great massage or meeting a friend for lunch.


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## cricketsmomma (Jun 14, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I do think all the stress people were putting on me to get the show on the road actually prevented my body from being relaxed enough to labour.

So...I'm not advising a drink of cider or anything...but I am advising that you _try_ not to let all this pressure get to you so much. People are ruining your last days/weeks of pregnancy with this nonsense. Try to relax, and forget about inducing labour...at least for a few days. Just relax, laugh, watch a funny movie, whatever...and shake off all that pressure.


oh that sounds like me!!!! I definitely feel like I'm fighting people off. I know everyone is getting impatient but honestly, I am considering unplugging the phone and locking the door. But even my hubby is getting edgy, and he has a key...

we'll see what tomorrow brings. I am expecting the heat to be turned up, as the CNM will be around for our NST. I'm considering castor oil (tried EVERYTHING ELSE I can think of) but I'm hesitant because... well... we have an outdoor bathroom and it really sucks to make all those trips out past the garden in the middle of the night...







:


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## homewithtwinsmama (Jan 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cricketsmomma* 
oh that sounds like me!!!! I definitely feel like I'm fighting people off. I know everyone is getting impatient but honestly, I am considering unplugging the phone and locking the door. But even my hubby is getting edgy, and he has a key...


Inductions of a vbac are dangerous. Just say no. Your husband has no vote here (as in No Vagina, No Vote). No woman should make her birth decisions for the comfort of that person whose body it isn't happening to. Tell him to support or shut up!







:

Oh and you can have calcifications if you used a lot of Tums for heartburn. Just saying...


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## Asher (Aug 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I find that kind of thing really frustrating, but there is still also informed choice/informed consent to consider. I mentioned something to a pregnant woman I knew about induced labour being, by all accounts (ie. pretty much everybody I've ever talked to who has had both - I haven't), more painful than spontaneous labour, general. She was shocked...had been seriously considering an induction, _after her OB pointed out that getting the baby out would end the back pain_, and had no idea that it was in any way different than natural labour...no idea at all.

I'm not saying there are _no_ women who would choose induction (or scheduled section) just to get it over with, even if they were properly informed. I just have strong reason to believe that a large percentage of the ones making that choice _aren't_ properly informed...risks are downplayed, or completely ignored, and benefits are highlighted.

I agree completely and I will avoid getting in to my rant about so many blindly following what their care provider tells them without researching it.







(Another one of my big pet peeves. Degree next to their name MUST mean that they want the best for us, right?!







)


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## cricketsmomma (Jun 14, 2007)

the CNM and RN both said they never heard of tums causing this... they couldn't tell me if they felt this was normal as a placenta is getting close to finished...
makes me worry what else they don't know!


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## mamatolevi (Apr 10, 2009)

VBACs can be induced. Most drs won't take the perceived risk v. the perceived control that a c/s offers the dr.

vbac pit inductions are done very differently than I suspect how they were done on all the studies that showed high rupture rates (the ones I've skimmed don't stay if the used prostaglandins or not and I suspect they did) they are also done very differently than on an uncut uterus. No cervidil or cytotec ever.

The rupture risk does go up slightly, i think from .5% to 1-1.5%. Someone on the ICAN board would know the exact stat as I'm sure someone here does as well. Given a choice between an induction and a r c/s, I'd take the induction. but given a choice between induction and waiting... I'd wait. Understandably, it's not a risk everyone is willing to take and there are very individual circumstances to consider with every pregnancy.

my vba2c baby was induced with pit at 41w5d. I had a good bishop's score and a doc I could completely trust not to screw it up like my first dr did my first labor. they used very low doses of pit and no increases unless I completely stalled. The highest dose on the delivery notes says 6mu, and I know it started at 2mu (I read the orders before consenting to the IV). I was otherwise mostly unmediated but for a paracervical block that didn't have time to start working before she was out.

If I had known about a foley catheter as an option to induce I would have asked to try it first. If I'm facing another induction this time around, I definitely will ask for it. As long as my water's not broken I'll be off the clock and able to go home if nothing get's going.


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## cricketsmomma (Jun 14, 2007)

well, I have til 7:00 tomorrow morning to go into labor, or they'll induce. I am not happy with this but I feel like I've pushed DH as far as I can... and I know it's my body, but it's our kid and I'm just the hostess for now so I really am trying to give him some consideration in this. I bought 5 days and I think that means something!
I like the idea of reading the orders before consenting... it's so easy to get stuck/mixed up with all of this, and I am generally a pretty thorough girl but I'm afraid I'm starting to lose my mind.
well, off to try the castor oil! Why not - nothing to lose now except some poo!


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## monkaha (Jan 22, 2004)

Peaceful birthing vibes to you! An induced birth can still be a wonderful birth!


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## kltroy (Sep 30, 2006)

Sending you best wishes for a peaceful and beautiful birth!! Have a talk with your baby about it being his/her birthday tomorrow to get him ready. You've done fabulously so far --- now go meet your little one with joy! (btw I think 5/26 is an excellent birth day - it's my son's too!!)


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## mamatolevi (Apr 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cricketsmomma* 
well, I have til 7:00 tomorrow morning to go into labor, or they'll induce. I am not happy with this but I feel like I've pushed DH as far as I can... and I know it's my body, but it's our kid and I'm just the hostess for now so I really am trying to give him some consideration in this. I bought 5 days and I think that means something!
I like the idea of reading the orders before consenting... it's so easy to get stuck/mixed up with all of this, and I am generally a pretty thorough girl but I'm afraid I'm starting to lose my mind.
well, off to try the castor oil! Why not - nothing to lose now except some poo!









Read those orders. If there is something you don't agree with or is different than what you discussed with your dr, you make your dr come talk to you. Don't let the nurses say they'll call the dr and get back with you. You call the dr's office yourself if needed.

Hugs. I'll be thinking of you tomorrow. You can do this!! YOU CAN!


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## smeep (May 12, 2006)

Hey mama, I would STRONGLY that you reconsider birthing at the hospital. The attitude of the docs should be enough to make you run the other way. You may like the CNM, and will have your CPM attend, but they can only do so much if the doc decides to "be done" with your "trial of labour." The doc sounds like he's full of cow dung (how DARE he give you a 7am ultimatum when everything is FINE!!!). I can't say how things will turn out but, simply from your posts, you are clearly at FAR more risk (you, the baby, and your VBAC) by giving into these (IMO) selfish, impatient and irresponsible (the "no reason to stay pregnant" comment is outright irresponsible on his part, to totally ignore the risks for HIS convenience) jerks. Please remind your DH that if he can be that "laa dee daa" about serious risks he pretends don't even exist, how will it be when you're in labour, PARTICULARLY a more painful induced one? And I can imagine it'd be easier for him to scare the pants off DH, which may help "persuade" you to consent to a whole other host of things while you're in labour land.

...sorry, I ranted a bit. Either way, GOOD LUCK AND HAPPY, HEALTHY LABOUR AND BIRTH VIBES!!!


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## Quindin (Aug 22, 2003)

I am so sorry they are being so horrid about all this!








I am praying that you will go in labour in the next few hours, and for an uneventful and easy induction if you don't.








:


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## cricketsmomma (Jun 14, 2007)

well, it's 5 a.m. and no labor. I tried everything - except the castor oil, I figured I'd rather spend my last night home in my own bed rather than the outhouse (the rain may have figured into my decision, it's a long walk out back in the mud!).
I'm just going to try to do the best I can with this. I am so grateful for your encouragement! We'll see how this goes


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## leighann79 (Aug 4, 2005)

I just wanted to wish you good luck! I hope everything goes well for you!


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## monkaha (Jan 22, 2004)

Any news from OP? Hope you're having a wonderful babymoon!


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## SeekingJoy (Apr 30, 2007)

OP, how are things?


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## cricketsmomma (Jun 14, 2007)

well, it's a long long story.... if you have a minute, it's here!
Thank you SO SO much for all of your encouragement and info! This experience was made much better because I was an informed mama!

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...9#post13889179


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## ShwarmaQueen (Mar 28, 2008)

Congrats momma! Enjoy your lo!!!







:







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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

So- happy to read you had a such a healing experience. Enjoy your babymoon!


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## kltroy (Sep 30, 2006)

Congratulations on your baby! It sounds like you were a real trooper and that you and everyone working with you did everything you could to make good decisions and take care of yourselves. Enjoy your babymoon!


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