# Horrible experience at favorite restaurant with SUPER rude hostess...



## guest^ (Oct 29, 2002)

Well! I am so furious and am never my most articulate when so pissed, so please hang with me as i explain.....

We went to our favorite restaurant(authentic mexican) tonight and had a horrible experience there. Ds just turned 2....isn't the most cooperative little diner or shopper ever. and tonight was no different....but *none* of us deserved what the rude hostess did....

After eating, I let ds down....our rule is that he and only he(not dd-she is old enough to stay seated...) may get down from the table, but he is not allowed to walk or run around,touch or talk to other diners, and not allowed to touch stuff...you know pictures, decorations.....so basically, he can crawl under the table or play on the flooe right next to our table so long as he is out of the path of servers and diners. He had not evern been down for 2 minutes, when he stepped away from my reach and touched a potted plant...which then fell to the floor with a loud crashing sound. I was horrified. I grabbed ds to see if he was okay and to get him out of the mess as it fell toward him...at this point, the always snotty hostess came *storming* over to the "scene" and angrily picked up the plant without saying a word to us or even looking at us...she stormed off and I asked my dh could he believe this? She quickly returned with a hand sweeper,so I said,"I am so sorry this happened". She got right in my face and angrily said with a grimacing face," well it wouldn't have if you'd been watching him better"! I retorted,"excuse me? We've been eating here for years and nothing like this or even close has ever happened before...is R here?(the owner) I would like to talk to him." She gives me a look to kill and says,"No!" She then storms off. I wait a few minutes to see if she is going to return with more rudeness or perhaps will come to her senses and apologize. Nope. Everyone is staring. Dh and I are pissed....we had half our margaritas left to drink and I still had food left to eat....but I was so mad I was ready to cause an even bigger scene by confronting her or burst into tears. Given that dh and I are *extremely* exhausted and just wanted a quick and easy dining expereince, I felt that all my options sucked and so I took ds and left dh and dd to pay the bill.

To all you restaurant workers who may think about flaming me....please understand that dh and I both worked in restaurants during highschool and college and even beyond....we *know* the frustrations servers, etc experience and are very sensitive to them and fellow diners. This is NOT an upscale restaurant. When you are seated, crayons with childrens menus to color are given. We have NEVER let our kids run wild while while dining out...infact, we stopped going out to eat with other couples with kids cause their kids would run around and then dd thought she could too. Our mentality is that we have no family in town,and we have 2 places we like to frequent,the kids are with us and we work *very* hard to teach them good behavior when eating out. We are down to eating out 1 a week or 1everyother week. We are not idiots, we know the frusrtating challenges of taking a 2 yr old out anywhere, but we feel like for ds to get to where dd is with the whole thing, we gotta perservere through challenges. We speak quietely to dc and bring them books and quiet toys to keep them occupied. I really am not leaving anything out....

...except that this is like our most regular place to eat when we do go out. WE've been going there for almost 20 years back when it was a little ma and pa place and we were in high school and college....when we moved away for 8 yrs, this place was the one place that we would visit each trip back. When the owner's daughter(who has the same name as dd) is eating there at the same time, dd and her will sit and play together. The last time I saw the owner a month or so ago, he asked for my advice on a new dish they were introducing. And we have sentimental memories from eating there over the years....the most memorable was when my now deceased FIL gave dh his deceased mother's wedding ring to give to me. That was 14 yrs ago. Anbd then about a year ago, they hired this snotty hostess,who from the very first time shew seated us refused to seat us at our regular table as It wasn't clean. Whatever. I can put up with her little power trips and rudeness.....until she starts judging my parenting. MY claws pop out just thinking about it and I am stressing about how to handle this.

Should I call the owner tomorrow? Should I write a letter? What should I do?

Any advice and support is welcome.

Sorry so long....thanks for listening.








mp


----------



## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

Whew! I'm so sorry this happened to you! And DON'T beat yourself up, either. It's a family restaurant from the sounds of it, and that plant was obviously waiting for some kid to yank it over. It also sounds like your child was under control and just being a kid. Heck, a couple ten year olds jostling each other could do the same thing!

I do think you should mention something to the owner. He must value your loyalty over all the years, and if this hostess is relatively new I am sure he would appreciate the input. I think you should tell him that you just don't find her very friendly or nice to your children. He must be a good guy to have this restaurant stay in business so long, so I'm sure he appreciates a customer's input!


----------



## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

I probably wouldnt call the owner.

I havent let any of my three kids down on the floor. Personally, it irritates me when my kids have attempted it in the past. I dont like seeing kids under the table at a restaraunt. I know its important that we teach our kids how to act in a restaraunt, but the bottom line is, your child wasnt where he was supposed to be, and knocked over a potted plant. I do think that the hostess over reacted, she sound like a real wound up b*tch, kwim? like, is that the first time that has ever happened? is your child the only one to ever get up from his seat? i think not, and she has alot to learn.

I wouldnt stop going. i know what its like to haunt a beloved restaurant. keep going and gently reinforcing dining etiquette, and you'll be laughing about this in a few years.


----------



## Festivus (Jun 26, 2003)

I would


----------



## Festivus (Jun 26, 2003)

I would DEFINITELY write a letter. If you are longtime, regular customers and were treated this way - the owner would WANT to know how you were treated. Even if he/she would disagree with you allowing your child onto the floor, I am certain any business owner who wants return customers and good comments spreading through the community about his establishment would NOT want one of his servers behaving this way to customers. Even if you were way wrong (and I am not saying you were - it was an accident) she should not have handled the situation in the manner she did.

I once wrote a letter to an upscale store b/c the cashier was so snotty to me. I explained that I knew it was a busy night - took into account her possible state of mind, but explained that her behavior did affect whether I wanted to return to the store. I got a letter of apology from her a few days later.


----------



## Foobar (Dec 15, 2002)

I would talk to the owner. First apologise for the breaking of the plant. But then explain how you felt when the hostess treated you like that.

I think it is fair to take some responsibility(which you have), But he should know that kids in restuarant make messes. All kids do and you try hard to teach them and everyone has a bad day.

Even if the hostess was having a bad day, it was not acceptable to attack you on that. I think that the owner should be aware of this situation so the hostess can be more family friendly.


----------



## sadean (Nov 20, 2001)

I would definately say something to the owner, especially since you seem to havee a good repore with him. It is never acceptable for a hostess to that snotty, even if it is the patron's "fault". You are the customer and you are who keep his establishment in business. I think he would want to know (I know I would). I would try and talk to him when she is not around so that you can speak frankly about your feelings. It sounds like an issue has been on-going since she was hired (treating you poorly, being rude, etc.) , and finally came to a boiling point where she became overtly hostile. He should know.


----------



## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

I would definitely write or call the owner.

And you know, I have a particular issue with everyone being uptight about kids in public places. Why are we so intolerant of children? I absolutely do NOT think that children shouldn't be allowed down in a restaurant, or shouldn't be brought to restaurants to begin with. Should they run wild? No - that is a safety and respect issue. But respect is supposed to go both ways. What about having respect for the fact that they aren't adults, and shouldn't be expected to behave like adults. I just don't understand why our society as a whole is so intolerant. Why aren't they accepted as part of our life and culture and society? People roll their eyes when you get on a plane with a baby. What about noisy frat boys on a plane? Restaurant waitstaff get aggravated if they have to take a step out of their path because a kid is standing next to the table playing peekaboo. What about adults blocking an aisle why they stand and chat with each other?

What if an adult had knocked the plant over by accident? Would the hostess have been as rude? Everyone would be appalled if she had spoken about an adult that way. And hey, if the adult had been paying better attention, they wouldn't have knocked the plant over either.

Basically, it just seems as if so few people think that children are worthy of the same amount of respect and consideration as adults. I understand the waitstaff have a job to do - their job is to serve their customers. And that child, and his/her parents, are the customers. Again, respect needs to go both ways - respect for not being out of control and totally aggravating the waitstaff and other patrons, and respect for children being children.

Maybe there would be more wellbehaved children if they were allowed to act their age and not be considered social pariahs.


----------



## rainsmom (Dec 5, 2001)

I think the waitress was a little rude........BUT

I think children of that age belong with their parents at all times. There are just too many things for them to get in to. If they cant stay in the booth with you or in a high chair, then get the food to go.

My dd is 2.5 and sometimes cant sit in the booth with us while we finish. Usually my dh walks around the restaurant with her, hand in hand or carrying her.

PLUS the floors of a restaurant are SOO dirty.....


----------



## saturnine25 (Mar 26, 2002)

I would contact the owner- since you are a longtime patron, he's more likely to value your opinion. If I were him, I would appreciate the feedback.


----------



## shelbean91 (May 11, 2002)

I would call the owner. What happened was an accident- the hostess' reaction was completely inappropriate.


----------



## jasnjakesmama (Nov 19, 2001)

You've already gotten great advice so I will just echo the others and say Yes, do call the owner. You should not have to give up a restaurant you have patronized for twenty years over one out of line hostess.


----------



## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

I think the hostess overreacted and a letter or talk with the owner is appropriate. I also agree that society should be open to having children in public places and that there are areas where people should be more tolerant. However, I disagree that children should be let down out of their seats in a restaurant. Even if the intention is to keep this child "near by". I waitressed throughout college. I always had fun with kids at my tables even when working at places that did not cater to children. Kids typically do make a HUGE mess for the waitresses and it is very rare that a parent will attempt to tidy the area before leaving. This did not bother me although it was a complaint of some coworkers. The fact is, eating is messy whether you are a child or adult and I have to wipe the table whether it is mere crumbs or a huge mashed potato and drinking straw volcano creation. I could handle it, it did not really slow me down, and life went on. But kids on the floor was a problem. You always hear that accidents can happen with kids on the floor and I have first hand experience with this. I tripped over a two year old playing "right next to mommy" with a full tray during dinner rush. I had a full section and was running my butt off. My tray was huge and full of dinners for a six person table. I could not see the floor. The child was in the aisle (although still close to mother), I tripped over him and the tray went flying. Luckily the child was not hurt (although very traumatized). I was. Sprained wrist and a burned leg. Steak, potatoes, and sour cream went everywhere. Two tables worth of customers had a sour cream shower. They were irrate at me and I lost the tips for almost my entire section. While trying to frantically clean up the mess with a hurt wrist, I got chewed out by the cook because he was going to have to remake the whole meal. The parents of the child were extremely angry at me and ranted to the manager about my carelessness. I was very sorry it happened, but the fact is, children do not belong on the floor and I could not have avoided this unless I was assigned about half the number of tables I had that night. I urge all parents that if you cannot keep your kids in their seats, restaurants may not be a good place to patronize for a while. There were steak knives, sizzle platters, and hot butter on that tray. It was shear luck that nothing harmed the baby!

Does this mean I would ever yell at parents that made a mistake, certainly not. That is rude and the manager should know about it. I have happily cleaned up many spilled drinks, tossed meals, other childrens accidents, and yes, even a potted plant incident. A family restaurant should know that most kids cannot resist a potted plant! Thank god it was not a cactus! It happens to everyone and people should remember they were kids once too

Yooper


----------



## Kylix (May 3, 2002)

I would say talk to the owner--especially since you know him so well. The issue here is the waitress' rudeness not whether or not your son should have knocked over the plant.

I believe the owner appreciates you as a valued customer that has come back time and time again and will be very angry at this waitress who could have potentially jeopardized that.

Kylix


----------



## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

Quote:

What about having respect for the fact that they aren't adults, and shouldn't be expected to behave like adults.
Oceanbaby, i agree with your statement *but* when i go out to dinner with my husband, i want to relax, talk, eat a good meal in peace. I dont think because i want a peaceful uninterrupted meal, that i am intolerant, kwim? But i really do not think children belong on the floor, under or around the tables. they should be ina chair, their parents arms or a high chair. when i went out with my kids, they sat in their chair or high chair. period. if they couldnt (and i understood that they always couldnt because they were little!) i would take them outside for a walk, and if things didnt get better, we packed our food and left. i also understand that when i go into Golden Corral, i will see loads of families (including my own!) happy kids who are allowed to be just that, kids. thats why i take my kids there. but when i go alone with my husband, or with friends and i go to a restaraunt that is mostly for adults, i do expect the kids to sit in their chairs, i do expect the parents to keep them off the floor.

and i do think kids should get respect, but i also think i should get respect too, to dine and talk, to chat with friends, and not have to deal with kids running around, crying kids, etc. they _are_ paying customers, yes, but is my money not valuable too?

This is not to say that i dont think that the hostess over reacted. she sounds like a real piece of work, and like the op states, this is ongoing, and she is rude even when the kids are on their best behavior.


----------



## kama'aina mama (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by sweetbaby3_
*Oceanbaby, i agree with your statement *but* when i go out to dinner with my husband, i want to relax, talk, eat a good meal in peace. I dont think because i want a peaceful uninterrupted meal, that i am intolerant, kwim?*
Valid point, but if you are hoping for an 'adults only' type experience you probably aren't picking a restaurant that hands out crayons on kids menus designed to be colored on, KWIM?

The woman was very rude to a paying customer of long standing. Her boss should know that. And yes, accidents happen to people of all ages. If the incident was as you described that plant was an accident waiting to happen. Everyone is lucky your child wasn't hurt. She would never have behaved that way if an adult made a similar mistake.


----------



## TrinitysMama (Mar 13, 2002)

Yes the hostess was rude and probably shouldn't have reacted that way. . .

BUT

I have worked in restaurants before and I had a major problem with the fact that parents would finish their meal and let their kids run around while they sat at the table and talked. Kid-friendly or not, restaurants are not a very safe place for kids to be roaming free. Like the above poster mentioned, it's not safe to have small children underfoot when you are walking around with trays full of hot food. It's a potential danger to both the child and the employees. What if it wasn't a plant, but a hot plate full of sizzling fajitas? Your child could have been burned or injured by falling plates.

The hostess did overreact, but I think that in the future, you might want to keep a closer eye on your child and perhaps keep him in his seat unless you or your dh are with him.


----------



## juicylucy (May 20, 2002)

I say write a letter- accidents happen, but this waitress's reaction was WAY out of line. I think you'll feel better about it if you do something, rather than let this bug you so you no longer get so much enjoyment out of eating at this supposedly kid-friendly restaurant.


----------



## jen and her girls (May 22, 2003)

I would either write a letter or phone the owner. Explain that you like him and the establishment, but that the treatment you received was unacceptable.

I CANNOT STAND when people are uptight about kids in a restaurant. They are kids - they get bored, the get curious, occasionally they get in the way. Am I going to stay home for the next 10 years until I can ensure that they will be perfectly behaved at all times? Absolutely not! I will teach them to stay out of the way of servers, I will walk around a restaurant with them, I will understand and respect their limitations in regards to sitting through a long wait at a restaurant. I'm not taking my kids to highly upscale establishments - I am taking them to family places. If the other diners are bothered by children being children, then I feel that *they* should have stayed home or chosen a different place to eat. My kids are fairly well behaved, rarely have tantrums, and are extremely polite. As long as they aren't being loud or rambunctious, I let them act like kids. Ironically we often get compliments on how well behaved and friendly they are.

I have only had a hostess be rude to my kids once. After what my husband said to her I am pretty sure she no longer works there.

I am sorry that that happened to you. I don't understand why people like that take customer service jobs.


----------



## juicylucy (May 20, 2002)

In defense of the OP, it does not sound at all like the child was allowed to "run around".. he was right next to the mother as she had the chance to pull him away before the plant hit him. He was right next to the table, which I think is fair enough. I agree that kids shouldn't be allowed to run wildly around restaurants, for the sake of safety as well as out of consideration for other diners, however I don't think that was the case here.

Quote:

_Originally posted by mamapoppins_
*

After eating, I let ds down....our rule is that he and only he(not dd-she is old enough to stay seated...) may get down from the table, but he is not allowed to walk or run around,touch or talk to other diners, and not allowed to touch stuff...you know pictures, decorations.....so basically, he can crawl under the table or play on the flooe right next to our table so long as he is out of the path of servers and diners. He had not evern been down for 2 minutes, when he stepped away from my reach and touched a potted plant...which then fell to the floor with a loud crashing sound. I was horrified. I grabbed ds to see if he was okay and to get him out of the mess as it fell toward him...







mp*


----------



## rainsmom (Dec 5, 2001)

It takes 2 seconds for a small 2yr old to get away from your grasp. One second! Not a chance I would take with my dd...... Especially when there is hot food around, not to mention old food on the floor.

In another year or so he will be able to sit in a seat for the length of a meal. Sometimes we've had to leave the restaurant OR take turns eating while one of us entertains dc. My dd is starting to learn what is acceptible behavior in a restaurant, though she is far from perfect. If I started letting her do something now, that wont be acceptable when she's 3 or 4, it would be confusing.


----------



## anythingelse (Nov 26, 2001)

I would go in and visit with him a minute, tell him that you knew he would wonder if your ds was okay. Tell him your ds was not hurt by the planter falling on him and then offer a BTW, this was the hostess' remark to me. He needs to know his out of line hostess is rude and mouthy.
kind of OT My mom has parkinsons and she has gotten crap from waitstaff for spilling her drinks when she clearly said to not fill cup to the top. I am always stunned at how rude & hurtful waitstaff commenst about this can be. I have waited tables & hostessed and would never have assumed someone was neglectful about watching their kids and willingly made a mess. If they had a plant near a table that a toddler could bump into and knock over this could also have been a danger to my mom tripping on it or anyone else with physical limitations. Good luck!!


----------



## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

Jen and her Girls - My point exactly! I don't let ds run around in a restaurant unless I am there holding his hand, right by his side. My dh and I take turns getting up with him if need be. There are a million places where it is unsafe for a 2yo to run around unattended - Home Depot, the grocery store, the bank, the post office, a restaurant, Macys. But this is the world we live in. They are not guests in the adult world - they have just as much right to be in these places as we do, and to display age appropriate behavior. I just don't agree that children should be miserable so that other diners can have the meal the way that they want it. I understand that adults may want peace and quiet, but the kids want to get up and explore their environment. Why is what the adults want more important than what the kids want? Please understand that I am not talking about letting your kids scream and cry and throw food and run around and be obnoxious.

Yoopervegan - that sounds like a horrific experience! What a nightmare. But I don't think it means that kids shouldn't be out of their seat - it means that the parents should be watching to make sure they don't cause an accident. Adults cause accidents all the time in restaurants - they back up without looking, they dangle their feet in the walkway, they grab glasses off the server's tray, they turn a corner too quickly without looking, etc. But it doesn't occur to anyone to think that adults should stay seated the entire meal.

One of the reasons I am so peeved about this is because I had an incident when ds was a baby. We were in a coffee shop (a noisy, Nordstrom coffee shop of all places), and he was happily sitting on my mom's lap banging a little plastic lid on the table. Not a metal spoon, a soft plastic to-go cup lid. A guy walks in, sits down next to us, and opens a book. I see him looking at me, and finally he gets up, walks over, and asks if I can have ds stop banging the lid because he's trying to read. I jokingly said "Well, he's 10 months old, so asking him to stop will be pretty tough." Then he told me that I should take it away from him. I told him that I wasn't going to do that, because then HE would be unhappy. He wasn't making an unreasonable amount of noise - there were adults having noiser conversations, and an espresso machine going full tilt. The guy threw a little fit about how he was trying to read his book. I pretty much just politely told him that that was just too bad, maybe try a library. He slammed his stuff together and huffed off, glaring at me the whole time. I didn't see him asking any of the adults to keep their voices down.

That isn't the only experience I have had. I mean, ds is usually pretty well behaved in public, and dh and I are always right there with him if he's running around, but it seems like people have this general attitude that kids are a nuisance, that they are to be seen and not heard, and that they should be made to accommodate whatever it is the adults want. I just don't see this as very respectful treatment.


----------



## guest^ (Oct 29, 2002)

I am amazed at the response I've gotten here...thankyou.

I have put in a phone call to the owner, but unfortunately, his nephew is getting married this weekend and he will hardly be in the restaurant over the next few days...I did expain to the next person in charge who is the kitchen manager and has been there for 17 years...he said he was going to make it a top priority to get the message to the owner. You never know about politics at a restaurant, and I do wonder if the message will fall into the wrong hands IYKWIM....I couldn't make it in there today as I woke up with a crisis call from one of my best friends asking me to take her kids for a good part of the day...

I would like to clear up a few things...

This is the hostess-she is not a server.

Our children were *not* running around....we always ask to be seated next to the wall, and there is a space of about 4 feet behind me where if I have allowed ds to be down-he is allowed there. He is allowed *right* next to me.THIS IS NOT IN THE PATH OF SERVERS. I must emphasis that we are very sensitive to the wait staff and other patrons. I always leave a clean table and floor and always leave at least a 20% tip.Period. ds is past the stage of picking up leftover food from the floor, and this is a clean restaurant. I had just put ds down when this happened....my dh and I were not finished and were not sitting around talking while ds tore up the place....I put himn down to quickly shove food in my mouth and inhale my margarita...he was dancing to the Latino music one minute and the next thing he had reached to touch the plant. Before I could even say No to him, the thing tumbled down.

To those of you that don't let your kids down at all, that is great for you. That worked for us with dd-she was the type to finish eating and play quitely on our lap while we finished....this rarely has happened with ds...when he is finished, one of us DOES take him out of the restaurant or hold him on our laps...which we were about to do...and this happened. I am sure that even with those of you that say you take your food to go at that point or take your kids out of the restaurant....is there not a few minutes where this is trying to be accomplished...discussing which of you will finish,which of you will do the walk outside?... waiting for the server to bring the box or bag to take the food? I personally cannot go from child starts demanding to be put down or to go, to dashing out the door in a split-second. As soon as ds has refused to stay next to me, one of us *is* out of there.

This is not an upscale restaurant. It is afamily owned and operated restaurant. The owner is actually the son of the man who started it,he is now deceased and his sons run it...the top owner has a daughter 1 year younger than my dd and when I've seen them in there, their daughter goes roaming *all*over the restaurant...many times sitting with us as dd and her have the same name and they think that is great...and so they chat and play when they see each other. It's not Chuckee Cheeses,but it is family friendly...like i stated, when you walk in, the kids are given a cup of crayons and a menu to color....

I agree with Oceanbaby.....the overall attitude toward babies and children in American restaurants is a huge reflection of how we as a society treat our littlest members.

I am not going to avoid eating out for the next few years...we stopped eating out when ds was around 1 yr -till he was about 18months. I think that it is acceptable to take a 2 yo out to eat....it is through this period that he/she becomes comfortable slowly with the eating out experience and grows into a 3-4yo who is a pleasant diner. MY best friend has never taken her dc out to restaurants due to one son who is special needs, and she has told me that when her Mom takes her 6 yo out, he doesn't know how to behave and is very impatient. Maybe some kids can wait to be taken to restaurants till they can behave like little adults, but I am guessing most can't. Afterall,where are the practice sessions?

I do not feel like we were in the wrong here. We absolutely were *not* slacking-I can admit if I've been negligent-and this was not the case. The issue is the horrible attitude we got from the hostess. She was out of line.

On a side note, I did remember the first negative experience we had with this lady-when she asked us smoking or non(first time meeting her) I replied that I wanted one of our usual tables over by the wall so I could have some privacy BFing....she acted all put out.























mp


----------



## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

Quote:

I just don't agree that children should be miserable so that other diners can have the meal the way that they want it.
So I should be miserable, right?
If i child doesnt deserve misery, then neither do i. I _do_ have a right to a meal the way i want it. And children _should_ have the opportunity to learn observe and explore. The two shouldnt be mutually exclusive. unfortunately, time and time again, i am in an nice restaraunt, after 9pm, and kids are all over the place "exploring". I guess this is so the kids arent "miserable", and while their parents eat happily away, my dinig experience is ruined.


----------



## sleepies (Nov 30, 2001)

well. as the customer they should NOT have said anything like that to you. they should go by the policy that the customer is always right. if they had a problem, they should have NICELY told you before it came to that point. seems like they had a problem BEFORE the pot broke.....so that is when they could have said something "nicely".

but, id not let your child out of their seat in a restraunt. i think it is a little rude. sorry. my opinion, that you didn't ask for.

but you got!


----------



## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

Reply from a VERY seasoned restaurant worker here!!! YES, call the owner! That hostess was rude and that is not acceptable. You paid for your meal AND you paid for hospitable service. It sounds like your child wasn’t bothering anyone and wasn’t anyone’s way and an accident happened…big deal. I think under the table or close to the table (out of workers way) is a perfect place for a child in a restaurant. Also, I think that children should be welcome in all public places and I don’t really understand why on this site you’re getting grief for bringing your child with you to eat.


----------



## jen and her girls (May 22, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by sweetbaby3_
*So I should be miserable, right?
If i child doesnt deserve misery, then neither do i. I do have a right to a meal the way i want it. And children should have the opportunity to learn observe and explore. The two shouldnt be mutually exclusive. unfortunately, time and time again, i am in an nice restaraunt, after 9pm, and kids are all over the place "exploring". I guess this is so the kids arent "miserable", and while their parents eat happily away, my dinig experience is ruined.*
Well, I guess that depends. I don't think that children should be running around screaming, beating each other up in the aisles, or throwing food around. However, I don't see anything wrong with children walking around (with a parent), checking out the other patrons, exploring, playing peek-a-boo under their table, etc. It shouldn't matter if it's 4pm or 10pm - I think that kids have as much right to be in a restaurant as any adult. Just as I don't think that overly rude and obnoxious children should be tolerated anymore than overly rude and obnoxious adults.


----------



## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

OP, you seem to be very restaurant savvy but I wanted to add one more thing. When calling a restaurant, timing can be very important. Try to call in the morning or between lunch and dinner.


----------



## jen and her girls (May 22, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by HannahSims_
*...and I don't really understand why on this site you're getting grief for bringing your child with you to eat.*








I was really surprised by that, too.


----------



## rainsmom (Dec 5, 2001)

YIKES!!

I thought we were talking about whether children should be out of their seats and about contacting restaurant owners about rude hostesses......not whether we should bring them AT ALL........

did I miss something


----------



## sillypants (May 16, 2003)

We are in the restaurant business and yes, you should call the owner. He will REALLY want to know, trust me.

You did nothing wrong with letting your little one down. If people want to go to a quiet restaurant and have a quiet meal, that's where they should go. Not a family restaurant where there are families eating.


----------



## sadean (Nov 20, 2001)

rainsmom-If you missed something so did I







:

It is my belief that children have the right to be treated with dignity and respect in public, and that goes especially for family dining places...that's why it's "FAMILY DINING". It aggrivates me to no end when my kids are looked down upon simply because they are and act like children. They are well behaved, but are still often impatient, talkative and enthusiatic. They are not "running wild", but they are kids. In order to make good citizens/patrons-in-restarants, they need to have hands-on practice and I will continue and proudly give them that, even if snotty people don't believe my children belong out in public...and personally i care what time it is. Adults don't have a monopoly on life after 7:00 p.m.

If people don't want to eat with children, they should not patronize places that cater to families. I also think that people need to have a little more empathy for parents in general. Yes, some are irresponsible, but most are doing the best they can. And if an adult did any of the things my and other children do (talk loudly, bang their silverware, ask where there food is 10 times in 5 minutes), nobody would scold them, give them dirty looks, or sniff in displeasure.









OP, I fully support you and completely empathise.







I hope that you are able to get in touch with the owner soon and that he fires her a$$.


----------



## anythingelse (Nov 26, 2001)

me too!! I was shocked to read the sentiments expressed. I went out to eat with my kids a couple nights ago and the boys got up to go to the bathroom each at least once and dd walked around to check out the fish tank and then chat up the hostess, this was normal dinner at Benihana. The severs there are always happy to see us.

If your dining experience is ruined by having children behave in normal childlike fashion near you, then you should request a different table away from familys out, hit a bar restaurant that children do not frequent, or go eat at late late hours when most kids are in bed. IMHO YOU own the problem and the solution, the child does not.
ROTFLMBO you would hate eating at my house where the average number (not age) of children is 7-8 at the lunch or dinner table all summer long.

ma of four wonderful children


----------



## guest^ (Oct 29, 2002)

Ut-oh...well maybe it was I who got the topic off and onto even taking small children out....but oh well....it seems to be a passion filled topic huh?









Dh is reading to the kids, so I'll jump in again....

Yk, before I became a parent, and worked at or ate at restaurants, I was full of judgement against those who would let their children down at a restaurant,or had their children eating out late.

But I've learned that I never know the circumstances that bring a family to make the choices that they do. And I think that when you have no children or very easy children....judgement calls become easier, and tolerance just isn't exercised enough.

That said, I also think that eating is such a personal thing that we all do and that we tend to get sort of...understandably picky about our surroundings when doing so. Does that make sense? But this is hugely off the topic that our favorite restaurant has a mean,rude hostess who was horrible to us leavibg us with the dilemma(sp?) of what to do...

mp


----------



## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

Quote:

That said, I also think that eating is such a personal thing that we all do and that we tend to get sort of...understandably picky about our surroundings when doing so. Does that make sense?
Totally.


----------



## PJsmomma (Apr 21, 2003)

Business owner here--Make sure you speak personally with the owner. He will probably be disappointed in his employee's behaviour. If he was gone when she behaved this way, she probably is alienating other customers. (Maybe she thinks she's the boss!)

I heard a statistic if one person complains to you (or gives a compliment) 100 others were thinking the same thing--probably not exact in the numbers there but I'm sure there are other people annoyed by her actions.

I would prefer to have a customer let me know if they have a problem--if I can't change everything to make it perfect for the customer I can at least explain my reasons and usually the customer is pleased that they at least got an explanation

hth
Malissa


----------



## rainsmom (Dec 5, 2001)

Quote:

That said, I also think that eating is such a personal thing that we all do and that we tend to get sort of...understandably picky about our surroundings when doing so. Does that make sense?

I agree!

Also, as far as the noise kids make, that cant be helped. My dd has a high pitched squeal that can seem to irritate some people. Ive had people, usually seniors, get disgusted and move to another table when my dd was an infant making infant noises (not crying) making it hard for them to read! SHEESH!

The only thing along those lines that would bother me is when I hear a parent verbally abusing their dc.


----------



## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

Wow. I hope I did not give the impression that kids should not be in restaurants. My only warning is that if you have a kid that needs to be out of the seat and has a tendency to bolt or get in the pathway, you might consider avoiding reatsurants until this passes for the child's and wait staff's safety. That said, it sounds as though th OP was at a table out of the way where no one would be hurt. Just be aware that your idea of in the way and what actually is in the way could differ. Kids being down does not "bother me", it worries me. After my experience with the little boy, I fret about any kids I see down and wandering alone (even close to the table). I actually dove for a kid a few months ago that was about to get stepped on. It is not that they don't have a right, it is that they are hard to see. When I was still waitressing, I would ask the parents of wanderers to either keep the child in the seat or wander with the child. Children going to the bathroom with a parent or to see the fish is totally expeted and acceptable. As for kids behavior in a family restaurant, there is nothing wrong with that. I have worked in both family places and adult places. Unfortunately around here, many adults think it is OK to bring kids to bar-like restaurants. No one cares about the noise, but if I were the parents, I would not want my kids inhaling that smoke or seeing the behavior of the clientel in these places. Some times bringing children to a fancy restaurant is not avoidable. You are there for a function like rehersal dinners, family events, etc.... I always sympathize with the parents trying to manage that situation......long waits for food, no toys, place too quiet. Most (not all) parents do the best the can to keep other diners from being annoyed....but there is only so much you can do.... Happy squeels (or unhappy for that matter) cannot be stopped.

Yooper


----------



## granolamom (Sep 30, 2002)

Call the owner!!!!!

Continue to take your sweet son with you and continue to let him play around close to the table. He is a 2 year old child!!! Kids get restless, their little bodies need to move around.....that is how they are wired!!!

Peace to you,

Granolamom


----------



## jeca (Sep 21, 2002)

Well...I wouldn't bother calling the owner. The next time I saw him or her I would mention it then but I wouldn't make a special case of calling. After all my son was wrong and knocked over the plant and while her comment was rude and inconsiderate I think it can wait.
Now if I was the waitress and I saw that the child was obviously o.k I wouldn't run right over and make a fuss over him either. I would try to clean the mess up as quickly as possible so the ordeal can be quickly forgotten and less attention drawed to it. Afterwards I would have come over.Speaking from experiance.

I don't think it's realistic for a young child to stay still at a resturant either.


----------



## chellemarie (Jan 17, 2003)

ITA with oceanbaby.

Accidents happen in restaurants. I'm talking about little ones like a knocked-down plant. Who gives a rat's butt if a plant gets knocked over. I certainly didn't feel the Earth stop turning when it happened. The hostess's job in that situation was to divert attention and make everyone feel as comfortable as possible. It wasn't her job to be a freak about it.

Call the owner. Then go back again and again and smother her with kindness.







(If I see a dustbuster at a garage sale, I'll have to pick it up for you. We'll spray paint it gold and give it to the Queen.)


----------



## gurumama (Oct 6, 2002)

Another seasoned waitress here with a slightly different view.

I had adults do far worse things when waitressing, so the fact that he dumped a plant doesn't even faze me, personally.

The hostess's reaction, however, was atrocious. You apologized and she was contemptuous, degrading, and demeaning.

If she treats a CUSTOMER like that, how does she treat coworkers? I'll bet she isn't well-liked, causes problems among staff, and the owner might want to fire her but doesn't have grounds to do so. I worked with a lot of people in various customer service positions who were real @ssho!es but management couldn't get rid of them because they feared a lawsuit. One good customer complaint would often be a relief for all the workers--management included--because it finally meant that the workplace could be cleansed and life would be more pleasant.

Write a detailed letter--accepting responsibility for letting him down and explaining that you apologized--with a blow-by-blow of how she blew up at you, her poor attitude, and how it deters you from patronizing his restaurant and makes you reluctant to continue recommending the place to friends and family. Make it friendly but clear.

You've been clear that this was a family-friendly restaurant, you have a long-standing relationship with the place, your son was two steps away and out of the path of waitstaff--so why is everyone making sweeping generalizations about the role of children in restaurants that have nothing to do with your particular story?

mel


----------



## guest^ (Oct 29, 2002)

We had played phone tag all week, and today I finally spoke with him.

He would not accept an apology from me about ds...he said that we were not at fault. He said that those plants have been knocked over many times, and probably more times by adults! He said that as soon as someone knocks it over, he or his wife relocates it to another part of the restaurant-only to find it put back there by his MIL who insists it perfectly fits the spot!







:







:

He apologized for the hostess behavior,saying it was absolutely inexcusable(sp?). He said that she told him the next day how awful she was to us and that she had had a really bad day, and felt bad. He said he told her that he pays her to check her bad days in at the front door. It is her job to please the customer. I basically told him that while I most certainly can forgive her, her general attitude has never been good or family friendly. He said that she has no kids and that she is clueless about them.

He asked me what he could do to make things better, that he valued us and *our children* as customers. I told him we deserved a face to face apology,but would accept a written one as long as we were assured that her behavior towards us and other families would improve. He assured me that she would receive a harsh reprimand , and most definitely we would receive an in person apology. He also said that he wants to pay for our next meal if we come back.

I told him we most definitely would be back. We were there before her and we'll be there long after she is gone. It will take a lot more for us not to come back!!

So there it is. Not much drama. I feel like I've been pretty fair,dh has cooled down too, and we feel valued by the owner and his family. Life goes on!!




























:






























mp


----------



## juicylucy (May 20, 2002)

good on you! Glad you got it resolved. The boss sounds great.


----------



## cinnamonamon (May 2, 2003)

Glad it all turned out for you, but I'm a bit disappointed that the hostess wasn't fired. I just don't understand anyone being kept on when being rude to ANY customer -- longstanding or not! Ah well... she probably won't last much longer in any case.

Enjoy your free meal!


----------



## ebethmom (Jan 29, 2002)

Good for you, mp! I'm glad that the restaurant owner was able to see the situation clearly, and I hope that this was some sort of eye opener for the hostess.


----------



## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

The whole thing has been completely blown out of proportion IMO.


----------



## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

:LOL You could be us! We have a 2.5 y.o. and a 9 mos old and we've been going to the same Mexican restaurant about once/week for many many years. We love the waiters b/c they love our kids. No, we don't have crayons, but they bring us extra spoons to play with, crackers, and to go cups. Those chips are on the table asap to keep my son happy. I really and truly believe that the more experience kids have in restaurants, the better behaved they are. My kids are awesome.







But, we eat fast and those margaritas are speed sucked.
















Good for you for exposing your kids to society! Personally, I don't (and won't) let my boys on the ground but that's just my personal quirk. I think that once I've let him out of his seat once, it'd just be a battle.

Yes, follow up on your call. She's snotty when she has absolutely no reason or right.

BTW: It sounds like the disagreements here are really rhetorical. People who are out for a relaxing or romantic dinner aren't likely to pick someplace that caters to families. You kind of pick up on that atmosphere when you walk in the door. KWIM? Kinda like buyer beware...

PS: Oceanbaby...I don't get it...did that guy's coffee cost more than yours?







:
And, Yoopervegan I simply CANNOT believe that accident. OH MAN, people should have been falling out of their seats to help you.









Ah, I finished reading...YEA, it's resolved. GOod for you


----------



## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

Thought I'd mention, since no one yet has, one strategy I use when a salesclerk or waitress or hostess etc is rude to me. I remind myself that they are being paid, mostly likely, minimum wage or close to it. Yes, a hostess is paid to be nice, but at 7.00 dollars an hour . . .

This helps me "cool off" some.

I allso try to remember when I worked these jobs just how many peopel were rude to me and how easy it was to be unreasonable to someone when someone else was unreasonable with you. These are emotionally and physically tiring, low paying jobs.

Anyway, this helps me not stew about something for too long. teh older I get though, the harder it is to brush off the occasional rudeness of a telephone operator etc. Why is that?


----------



## irishprincess71 (Mar 22, 2003)

First off let me say that I think the hostess was rude and you deserve an apology. I am glad you are going to get one.

However, I must emphatically disagree with all the posters who are complaining about "society's" lack of tolerance for children in public in general and restaurants in particular. Everyone's comments seem to imply that this attitude is a new thing. It is only new because until the past 30 years parents didn't take children to restuarants. How many of our parents saw the inside of a restaurant before the age of 10 or even 20? Dining out was a special occasion for our parents or grandparents to celebrate. I would wager that most of the "disapproving" looks come from the over 50 crowd because they were not raised with the attitude that you took kids everywhere and demanded respect for them from the other adults around you. They were raised with the attitude that restuarants were for adults and if a parent is going to bring there child to a restaurant the child should be able to act accordingly.

That all being said - I have been on both sides. I was a waitress at a family restaurant and the kids ran wild. My biggest pet peeve though was not with kids wandering around but with the total disaster they would make with food, etc.

I now have a 1 year old and he would love to wander if he could. I have let him do this only when we were seated in a banquet room by ourselves. However, I will ALWAYS pick up as much of the food off the floor as I can before I leave because he has an awful







: habit of tossing his food for fun and I don't feel it is fair to ask anyone to clean it up.


----------



## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

Quote:

The whole thing has been completely blown out of proportion IMO.
Mine too, Ard.


----------



## cinnamonamon (May 2, 2003)

Arduinna & Sweetbaby: As a waitress & hostess, I don't think it was blown out of proportion at all. If something like this had happened where I worked, my boss (the owner) would have been furious if he found out that he wasn't told. When he did find out the Hostess would have been fired and the family apologized to & offered a free meal as well.

After all, there was a study done that showed that when a person had a positive experience at a restaurant they told an average of 2-5 people, but when they had a negative experience, they told 10 - 15 people.

I'd say that's pretty important to a restaurant's business reputation.


----------



## gurumama (Oct 6, 2002)

good point, irishprincess

my dad was bron in 1942 and he said he went to a restaurant once a year as a kid--it was like a Denny's--and his parents went out once a year as a couple to a nicer place to eat and dance. that was it.

they were solidly middle class--grandpa was a foreman at a rubber tire factory. he said you simply didn't go out with kids. he didn't see a restaurant until he was about 10, I think.

even if they were travelling grandma made sandwiches. they only travelled to places where there were relatives or relatives along the way to visit, so they would just load up on food whenever they stopped, then go on. they drank water and would stop by the side of the road for picnics.

it is a surprise for older folks, the way we bring little kids to restaurants. but it shouldn't have been a surprise for this hostess, and she shouldn't have taken out her frustration on the OP.

i waited tables for 6 years and while ITA on the gross factor of people leaving the tables a mess after little kids eat there, I was always happy to clean the table if they tipped 25%. that's what we do now if i can't clean up (like travelling alone with a 4 and 1 yo). I waaaaaaay overtip as compensation.


----------



## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

I don't really see how the fact that back in the 50's to whenever; children were not welcome in restaurants. I guess it would be in interesting point if this were about an issue with an older group of people who didn't understand why you would bring your child out with you but it's not.
There's so much that we're trying to change about parenting left over from that time period that I don't think it's a good idea if we pick and choose what we liked from that time and used it to our advantage. Kwim?

Not to mention that the assumption that children are the worst behaved clientele in restaurants is not accurate. Okay, on a give day there may be a particularly poorly behaved child but there may have been a badly behaved man or woman also. Like one poster (and the OWNER!) said that pot has and could have been broken by anyone. I have found that some of the most pleasant people I have waited on are families who know how to dine, and this probably comes from children taken to restaurants throughout most of their lives.

Mamawannabe,
I think yours is a good strategy if it helps you be more compassionate towards people in the service business but I must say that your assumption about how much people in the restaurant business make is off by a bit. I'm sure there is a big range but I was making $300-$500/night in San Francisco a few years ago&#8230;ah, those days. Where did all the money go?

About the messes that families leave, I couldn't agree more. I vowed to always clean up after my kid...and myself when we make a mess. I have other peeves about restaurant edict but that's another thread..


----------



## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

Hannah Sims - thank you, that was the point I was going to make about parenting practices left over from years ago. That was also the "children should be seen but not heard" and "spare the rod spoil the child" mentality that screwed my parents up so badly that they vowed to do differently with their children.

I also wanted to point out that this seems to be largely an American attitude. In European countries (and possibly others, but I am not familiar with them) children are a normal part of society, and are expected to be in restaurants and elsewhere. It's interesting to me that children are also usually very well behaved in these cultures. I really believe that children tend to live up the expectations that we have of them. If the general attitude towards them is that they are a nuisance to be tolerated, then that's what they will be. That's why I've always hated the phrase the Terrible Twos. It's like a self fulfilling prophecy. (Not that we haven't had some terrible moments over here, but that's for another thread!)

And I too spend many meals cleaning the floor and table, and leaving huge tips these days. More often than not I have the waitress or waiter come by and tell me to please not bother, but I just don't feel right leaving a huge mess.


----------



## cinnamonamon (May 2, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by oceanbaby_
*And I too spend many meals cleaning the floor and table, and leaving huge tips these days. More often than not I have the waitress or waiter come by and tell me to please not bother, but I just don't feel right leaving a huge mess.*
Yea.... we just say that to be nice! :LOL







:LOL







Just teasin. I had a regular who would get the bistle/hokey and start getting even the cracker crumbs! Then she left a 25% tip! I love(d) that woman! :LOL She is also still nursing her 2 1/2 year old









Seriously, a bigger tip for a bigger mess is what I always thought was right -- or just clean the worst of it up.


----------



## Jane (May 15, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by oceanbaby_
*I also wanted to point out that this seems to be largely an American attitude. In European countries (and possibly others, but I am not familiar with them) children are a normal part of society, and are expected to be in restaurants and elsewhere.
*
I have so far not posted, lest I be revealed as the intolerant person y'all are refering to in some of the above posts.

But this is something I couldn't resist commenting about.

Honestly, in my travels in Europe, Asia, even Canada, their children are not as loud. I have had several German mothers comment out of the blue that American children are SO LOUD. American parents, in general, do not moderate the volume of their children's speech.

I could care less about children being in a restaurant, but if I hear that stupid SHREAAAAK, ah ah ah ah ah SHREAAAAAAAAK from another two year old with a clueless parent, I swear. It's not going to be pretty for the waitress. She's gonna have me telling her to do something about the kid screaming or I'm leaving.


----------



## TrinitysMama (Mar 13, 2002)

ITA, Apricot.


----------



## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

I'm with ya too Apricot!! I used to be a server, and dealt with my fair share of unsupervised children, screaming ones, extremely messy ones ect. Management always kissed butt to the parents face and then told us what they really thought. A free meal is a cheap payoff in the long run when the person will come back and spend more money.

I don't get the attitude that the whole world revolves around anyones child?? Yes, children should be taken to restaurants (we took dd from birth) but that doesn't mean they are more important than any other diner there. My dd is very well behaved in restaurants and in peoples homes because she was raised to be. To be completely inconsiderate of other diners, the wait staff and the public in general while out creates self centered and bratty children and selfish adults IMO.


----------



## cinnamonamon (May 2, 2003)

Constant loud noise, or children running wild is obviously rude & shouldn't have to be tolerated. A young one leaving cracker crumbs on the floor & pieces of napkin is to be expected & shouldn't be a big deal. Nor should a loud sound every once & again, especially when followed with a "Now xx, you need to quiet down -- we are inside." Which should in turn be followed by said child quieting down! :LOL

In any case, I think it's clear that the OP's children were not behaving incorrectly. Her ds touched a plant that happened to be wobbly & it tipped. I'm not sure what I would do if my ds was a "screamer" -- or if he becomes one in the next few months during his playtime or what-not. Honestly, I would probably not eat out as often for a while as I really dislike inconveniencing others. That said, I'm often irritated by loud ADULTS -- I think that people in America are just more rude overall!


----------



## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

Apricot - While I would never allow my ds to shriek and yell in the restaurant (the rare times he has done that we take a walk outside), I'm just curious as to what it is you expect the waitress to do about another child that is being loud?


----------



## Jane (May 15, 2002)

I would hope that the waitress would ask them to quiet the child / suggest an area for loud voices.

If I were to walk over and confront them, that would be a confrontation. If the waitress were to stop by, as a person who is already standing and walking around, I would hope that would be a request/mild reprimand, rather than a confrontation.


----------



## mamaley (Mar 18, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by mamapoppins_
*Yk, before I became a parent, and worked at or ate at restaurants, I was full of judgement against those who would let their children down at a restaurant,or had their children eating out late.
But I've learned that I never know the circumstances that bring a family to make the choices that they do. And I think that when you have no children or very easy children....judgement calls become easier, and tolerance just isn't exercised enough.*








My opinions changed quite a bit from when I had an infant to after I had my own 2 year old! :LOL

Irishprincess, we ate out a ton when I was a child--definitely not for just special occassions in my family. My husband's family was the same way. Then again, we're in our 20s so maybe it's different?

edited to add--at the risk of being flamed, some of you make "quieting the child" sound so damned simple! There are times when we tell him to use his inside voice, distract him, entertain him, etc, and it just doesn't work. Granted, it usually does, but there are off moments that occur unexpectedly in a restraurant, as at home, or whereever. One of us usually takes him outside if this happens. To me, it seems like people just assume that the parents don't give a damn about the behavior--believe me, we are trying! And yes, we limit our restaurant visits now, are very careful of choosing when and when not to go, etc--and it is better now that he's 3 and not 2.


----------



## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Apricot_
*I would hope that the waitress would ask them to quiet the child / suggest an area for loud voices.*
While I completely agree with you, I have a feeling that as in the OP any employee stating the obvious ( too much noise, or broken items) would be seen as "super rude". Seems we live in a world where no one should comment on the actions of others children.







:


----------



## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

Unfortunately, if the waitress relayed another patron's concern about child noise, the parent(s), more often than not, would be angry at the waitress. People are very defensive of anything remotely negative said about their children, especially if it comes from a serving "peon," from a person whose paid purpose is to cater to their every desire and need. As tactful and kind as you try to be, some customers take any "request/mild reprimand" as an affront and will demand to speak to the manager about your "rude" behavior etc. Seriously, people are VERY mean to wait staff, who, unless they work in a nice or especially busy restaurant, are making about 10 dollars and hour after tips and working their butts off (hostesses make much less cause no tips).

I did this work for years, and I am still a little bitter about the way people treated us. Twice some customer took affront at something small I did and demanded the manager fire me (managers nod their head politely, comp meals, and then talk crap about the customer behind their back).

So no, don't ask the waitress to run interference for you. Go directly to the manager and get a free meal out of it

I do think we need to expect more from our kids if we are going to take them out. Eating habits in the US have changed dramatically though. Just a few years ago was the first time Americas spent more money in restaurants than in grocery stores. What was once a treat that required "best behavior" is now an everyday thing.

(had to fix spellings - how come I can read this over before I send and everything looks fine. Then when it gets posted, I notice a million mistakes?!)


----------



## jen and her girls (May 22, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Arduinna_
*While I completely agree with you, I have a feeling that as in the OP any employee stating the obvious ( too much noise, or broken items) would be seen as "super rude". Seems we live in a world where no one should comment on the actions of others children.







:*
If anyone commented on the actions of *my* children in a restaurant I would knock them on their a$$ in a New York minute. Unless somebody else's kid came and spit on my plate I would NEVER make parenting/discipline suggestions to anyone else. I cannot believe that anyone would consider it even remotely acceptable.


----------



## Jane (May 15, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by jen and her girls_
*Unless somebody else's kid came and spit on my plate I would NEVER make parenting/discipline suggestions to anyone else. I cannot believe that anyone would consider it even remotely acceptable.*
Your 3 month old kid (theoretically speaking) could scream all throughout dinner and I'm not allowed to to make a *suggestion*??
I find that a sad statement about the world.
I'm trying to ignore your thinly veiled threat of violence.

PS. A suggestion is "Your baby has been screaming a long time and I'm trying to eat my dinner in peace. Can one of you take him out for a while. "
NOT "Tell your kid to STFU before I smack them myself."


----------



## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

Quote:

If anyone commented on the actions of *my* children in a restaurant I would knock them on their a$$ in a New York minute.








: uke
How sad. that might explain why some folks eat their dinner in peace, oblivious, and my dinner is ruined.

Quote:

I would hope that the waitress would ask them to quiet the child / suggest an area for loud voices.
ITA


----------



## jen and her girls (May 22, 2003)

allow my child to scream throughout an entire meal, or anything else even similar to that, I would have a real problem with anyone making suggestions about what I should or shouldn't be doing as a parent. I would never presume to understand the situation of another family well enough to make a suggestion about their child. And while I doubt I would ever physically harm someone who made an inappropriate suggestion about my child, you can be sure that I would put that individual in their place well enough that they wouldn't make the same mistake twice. I already go through some parenting acrobatics to make sure my kids are well behaved in a restaurant. To have a stranger then come to let me know how I could be doing a better job would absolutely put me over the edge.


----------



## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

My problem with this is that if an adult was being noisy and disturbing others, everyone would just deal with it and be glad when they finally left. Like in the OP - if it had been one of the adults that had accidentally knocked the plant over, it would not have been a big deal. But if it's a kid, then everyone gets their panties in a bunch. Would you ask the waitress to ask the women who has had one glass of wine too many and is laughing too loud to be quiet or go outside? Talk about generating complaints to the manager.

That's what bugs me - not whether you like to eat your meal in quiet or not. It's that so often children are treated as second class citizens who don't deserve the same respect and tolerance as adults.

When I pay to go see a movie, I like to actually be able to hear the movie. When dh and I went to go see X-Men a few months ago, there was a woman next to us with her pre-teen daughter, and a son who was maybe about 6. The 6yo was asking questions really loudly, whining, asking to go outside, and several times dh and I couldn't hear the dialogue. It occurred to me to say something, but then I thought, you know, maybe this woman is a single mom with no support system and no babysitter, and is trying her best to take her pre-teen to a movie, and really doesn't need me making her feel bad because her 6yo is acting like a 6yo. No, he shouldn't have been in the movie theatre. She tried taking him outside a couple of times. But dh and I actually ended up just finding the whole thing really amusing because the kid was cute, even if he was being disruptive. And I would rather have had my movie experience ruined than feel like I made a mom, who was trying her best, feel bad and embarassed.

OT: I can't believe how rude people are to waitresses, cashiers, and just other people in general. Yes, I expect to be treated nicely in a restaurant, but mainly because I'm a nice person and usually don't warrant rude treatment, not because you are my servant for the evening. A woman I know who used to be a bridge toll collector told me that people would sometimes drive up to the window and swear at her, throw money at her, all kinds of mean things. WTF?


----------



## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

Quote:

Yes, I expect to be treated nicely in a restaurant, but mainly because I'm a nice person and usually don't warrant rude treatment, not because you are my servant for the evening.
ITA








When i am at a restaraunt, i am amazed at how rude people are! I cringe when i hear how others speak to the servers, the bus boy, whatever. unwarranted i might add. my sil is like that and i no longer go out with her. ever. we used to meet for breakfast, a quick lunch, whatever, but no more. its too stressful.


----------



## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

I wonder if we have less tolerance for children's bad behavior than for that of adults or if we just react differently.

You would give lots of dirty looks, you might even say "shhh," and you might talk to be overheard about "rudeness" when the offender is an loud adult in a restaurant or theater. When a child is loud and unruly, the parent, not the child, gets the "message" and the message, perhaps because it is not directed at to the offender, is often more strait-forward and direct, as in "Could you take your child outside until s/he stops crying."


----------



## rainsmom (Dec 5, 2001)

I dont know how we got on this whole line of children as 2nd rate citizens or how annoying they are in restaurants.........WTF??? THat seems WAY OT

Some of us EARLIER were disputing whether a 2yr old should be let out of the booth or out of his seat at all, thus avoiding this whole situation. Not whether they are intitled to make as much noise as the drunk woman at the next table. The OP explained that it was a section out of the way of traffic....... I still think that a 2yr old child shouldnt be let out of his seat/booth whatever, unless the parent is holding their hand...but thats JMHO

As for someone suggesting I "DO SOMETHING ABOUT MY CHILD" comment.....I would take offense to that too, only b/c Im so conscious of teaching my dd how to behave appropriately in a restaurant or anywhere else, and whether her high pitched squeals are annoying other people. I dont take her to the kinds of places where adults as well as children need to keep it down. We get a sitter for that. But in a family restaurant, its totally acceptable to have a child make a little "indoor" noise........

Thats what all of us are doing......raising our children, teaching them what is acceptable.....and where it is acceptable.

As for picking up after my dd makes a mess......I clean up more than I should cos I know in AZ, the wait people make 2bucks an hour....and their tips. So if I cant clean up, I leave a huge tip!

And if the waitperson is rude......take it out of their tip.....I dont think being rude back gets the point across quite effectively as not leaving a tip! I think being rude to the wait staff is very dangerous business, especially when they are bringing your food back. And Im not nice to them just bc I think they might spit in my food or something worse LOL! I just dont think it helps the situation at all, and ends up ruining my meal!

And dont get me started on children or worse, babies in a movie theatre! THats for another thread and one of my peeves!!! Especially at what movie prices are these days! Rent a video, get payperview or hire a sitter!!!

sorry for the rant


----------



## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by rainsmom_
*I dont know how we got on this whole line of children as 2nd rate citizens or how annoying they are in restaurants.........WTF??? THat seems WAY OT
*
Because the hostess would most likely not have reacted the way she did if an adult had knocked over the plant.


----------



## rainsmom (Dec 5, 2001)

oh.......selective rudeness...........

My guess is she's rude......to everyone.

If it happened to me, I would have assumed it was the kid thing too, but my bet is shes just rude and we are all a little overly sensitive to how people feel about children. I think most of us remember being looked upon that way as kids too.......


----------



## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by jen and her girls_
*If anyone commented on the actions of *my* children in a restaurant I would knock them on their a$$ in a New York minute.*
Yes, showing your kids that violence is the way to solve problems is definately the way to go







:


----------



## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

Arduinna going back to your earlier comments, are you saying you thought the hostess in the OP was right to say what she did?

I can't tell if you are speaking generally or about the OP.

I thought the OP was describing a well behaved family and a really rude hostess.

Personally if the baby at the next table was screaming through dinner, or a toddler was throwing food, my only thought would be a blissful "Thank god, it isn't my baby!".

And actually, I always make eye contact with the parent and coo or talk to the baby, or say something empathetic like "Oh, it is so hard at that age".

Honestly I tend to commiserate more than be bothered by it. I guess I just can't relate to being upset by crying babies at family restaurants.

And I consider a "family restaurant" anything that doesn't cater specifically to upscale romantic dining. If restaurants do not want a family atmosphere, I think they should be adult only, like bars. That way people could have the dining experience they want, without disappointment (both ways).


----------



## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

Oceanbaby, you are right on!!
This attitude that children shouldn't be tolerated TO SOME EXTENT for behaving like children in a family restaurant is simply prejudice, IMO. It seems that some posters are making the exception the rule in order to get some point across. No one here who is defending a families choice to bring children to a restaurant is suggesting it is okay for a child to scream all throughout a meal or roam recklessly around the restaurant. Are we?

What I am saying is that when dinning in a family restaurant certain child, age appropriate behavior should be tolerated. The occasional loud voice, a banged plate, spilled water, limited supervised exploring are all things that most normal children do in restaurants. Even European children.

The reason I think this is prejudice is because I don't think any of you pass judgment about similar behavior in a different kind of establishment when it's committed by adults. For example, when you decide to go to a sports bar (your decision) it is acceptable for adults to yell while a big game is being broadcasted. Can you imagine the reaction if a customer asked the waitress to quite down the other customers watching the game?

There is a simple solution to those who want a quiet meal. When you call to make a reservation ask what kind of establishment the restaurant is and ask for a quite table. Because you are going to a public place, there is still the odd chance that you'll be sitting next to a loud bachelor party and you could ask the waitress to quite THEM down but unless you're a regular and if they're spending 10x what you are, you'll loose out in my experienced opinion.

OP, jump in here if this discussion seems way too off topic and I'll stop&#8230;


----------



## irishprincess71 (Mar 22, 2003)

It is not a matter of children being treated as 2nd class citizens.

I think the OP made it clear in a later post that the hostess is rude in other areas also not just about this one incident.

I, and I am pretty sure almost everyone in the country, would be just as, if not more, annoyed, bothered and even ticked off, by the rude behavior of an adult. However, if you went up to a somewhat inebriated person and asked them to quiet down you run the risk of an argument at best and a gun battle at worst. If you ask a parent to tone down a child, you are more likely to get results. I think a lot of parents tend to tune out their children's noise and behavior simply because they are used to it, exhausted, or just plain lazy without realizing outside the home how it affects others around them.

No one is asking for a "seen and not heard" mentality again. But don't take your child out knowing they are unprepared to behave properly and expect everyone else around you to suck it up. That is just inconsiderate and rude as a parent. The OP however did nothing wrong. I am talking more about those parents who let their children run around the restaurant disturbing other patrons and waitstaff, throw food that actually reaches other tables, or throw temper tantrums while the parents ignore them.

Only once has DS not gone with us to a restaurant (my b-day) and so far I haven't had any complaints and quite a few compliments. I have never been made to feel like my child was a 2nd class citizen and if I ever received a complaint about his behavior I would probably apologize and chaulk it up to some rare person just being oversensitive.

I will admit that I am one of those people that took their baby to a movie theater. The first time was when he was 3 months and he slept through the whole thing. The second was when he was 5 1/2 months and he woke up half way through. At which point DH and I took turns taking him down the hall and away from other patrons so as not to ruin anyone else's experience. Needless to say, we will not be taking him again for a number of years.


----------



## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Arduinna going back to your earlier comments, are you saying you thought the hostess in the OP was right to say what she did?

Let's see, the hostess said " it wouldn't have happened if you had been watching him "

IMO, that is stating the obvious and not "super rude".


----------



## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

Aduinna, the owner said people are always knocking the plant over. Would it have been okay for the waitress to state the obvious to an adult patron, ie "If you were more careful, that would not have happened!".

I mean, it can be rude to state the obvious, right? They aren't mutually exclusive.

I guess that is what I was trying to understand, how do you feel about that?

edited to add: If the plant was that easy to knock over, couldn't it have happened when she WAS watching? Ds has done stuff while I was sitting right next to him that happened to quickly for me to stop.


----------



## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

I can't seem to keep myself from popping in here.

If an adult had knocked over the plant, and the hostess had said "If you had watched where you were going, it wouldn't have happened" wouldn't you find that extremely rude? Of course it's true - by definition an accident is something that happens during that split second that your attention is diverted. Hasn't anyone here ever knocked over a glass of water on their table at a restaurant that spilled onto the floor? Is that the kind of reaction you would have liked to have gotten from the waitstaff?

Irishprincess - like Hannahsims said, no one here is talking about letting their child scream through the restaurant and throw food at other tables. We're talking about normal, age appropriate behavior. A voice that occassionally gets too loud, some food spilled on the floor, and a plant knocked over by accident. These are not symptoms of children who do not know how to behave. These are natural actions of normal, healthy, well behaved children who have every right to be taken to a restaurant with their parents.

"I, and I am pretty sure almost everyone in the country, would be just as, if not more, annoyed, bothered and even ticked off, by the rude behavior of an adult. However, if you went up to a somewhat inebriated person and asked them to quiet down you run the risk of an argument at best and a gun battle at worst. If you ask a parent to tone down a child, you are more likely to get results."

This is exactly the problem I am talking about! So because an adult is more likely to put up resistance, let them act like an ass, but because kids are expected to be subserviant, and because parents (especially moms - notice dads don't seem to get this kind of rude behavior) are expected to be ashamed and made to feel guilty for the actions of their children, then we think they need to be spoken to if their child dares to annoy us.


----------



## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

nope, I don't think it matters if an adult did it or not other than the fact that small children can't be expected to know what to touch or not so it's up to us parents to do that. It's not like the plant fell over on it's own and you just happened to be standing next to it. I'm baffled that the kid obviously grabbed the plant, yet the waitress is seen as mean and nasty.

BTW, spilling a glass of water isn't breaking something. And in this case the child was not sitting at the table. I assume you all aren't saying that the plant was there for him to play with and oops he accidently broke the "toy"?


----------



## rainsmom (Dec 5, 2001)

Quote:

This is exactly the problem I am talking about! So because an adult is more likely to put up resistance, let them act like an ass, but because kids are expected to be subserviant, and because parents (especially moms - notice dads don't seem to get this kind of rude behavior) are expected to be ashamed and made to feel guilty for the actions of their children, then we think they need to be spoken to if their child dares to annoy us.
Adults are suppose to know better. Though some dont as we all know.

Parents are suppose to be teaching their children the appropriate behavior, or trying to.......

I would NEVER say something to another parent, unless they were ignoring the child completely. But not while they were sitting right there with their child. We never know the full circomstances.

I worked in a retail shop (a record store) and this young mother brought her 2 or 3 year old in, set her down turned her back on her and completely ignored her. As if it were someones home that was completely childproof. The child got into something and as the mother was completely oblivious, I told her that her dd had gotten in to something. She got all pissy at me! I said to her "HEY, this isnt a playground or day care center where you can ignore your child..... " She left and her friend said to me "she does this wherever she goes...(.ignores her dd) That was the only instance that I felt I needed to say something......


----------



## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

Quote:

If the plant was that easy to knock over, couldn't it have happened when she WAS watching?
No. I disagree. It wouldnt have happened if the child was sitting in his seat. The plant didnt jump out in front of him, he wasnt where he was supposed to be, which is in his seat.

Like Arduinna, I too am baffled that the child isnt in his seat, knocks over a plant and the parents demand an apology.







:


----------



## rainsmom (Dec 5, 2001)

Quote:

Like Arduinna, I too am baffled that the child isnt in his seat, knocks over a plant and the parents demand an apology.

Sorry, I have to agree!


----------



## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

I guess the OP thinks that she and her child deserve to be spoken to with respect, rather than with contempt and rudeness, even when one of them has an accident and knocks something over. Call me crazy, but I agree with her. I've knocked things over by accident in restaurants. Maybe I shouldn't be let out of my seat. Even though many accidents happen while I am still in my seat. I guess I shouldn't be allowed in restaurants at all because obviously my dh isn't supervising me well enough!


----------



## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

Hey, the OP said the hostess was rude there should be no question of that...the title of the post is:

Horrible experience at favorite restaurant with SUPER rude hostess...

HELLO!!!! HELLO!!! Did ya'll read the OP's post?

The OP was not demanding an apology because her child knocked over a plant. She was demanding an apology because the hostess was RUDE.

Later in her other posts she said that the OWNER of the restaurant told her that the plant had been knocked over several times before BY ADULTS and his mother kept moving it back to that logistically poor location.

Has everyone read all the OP's posts? I know I'm no longer here just to defend the OP, I'm here for some good, trashy, fun debate but hey, if we're going to get into it, we should all read all the posts.

Now a serious question: Are there actually some parents out there who feel an absolute responsibility to prevent every accident their child may make? Is this actually working? This just seems like a tremendous burden.

I will agree with the idea that it isn't the worst thing in the world when someone steps in to recognize some inappropriate behavior. I would feel tremendously wounded but if what I was doing was truly inappropriate and I was called on it I would eventually be appreciative. I think this idea can blend into the philosophy of "It Takes a Village" where the greater community is trying to help. That said, there are big problems with this idea, especially because most people who would be popping in to tell be about my problems would be doing it because it bothered them and usually not to help guide me, kwim?


----------



## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

sweetbaby/arduinna,

...I am surprised you would say he couldn't have done it while he was in his seat. I think I remember ds breaking a few things while strapped into a stroller at that age. And once in the backpack. But anyway...

...So the child wasn't in his seat, that is what you have said was a factor in why his accident warranted chastisment from the staff...so lets say he wasn't in his seat because they were standing up to leave, mom was holding his other hand, and THEN he reached to touch the plant and knocked it over with his free hand. Hostess response was still acceptable?

Arduinna re your comment "I don't think it mattered if an adult did it or not"...what do you mean? That the hostess would be fine talking like that to you or another adult who touched the plant, maybe to admire it, and it fell over? Really? You'd expect that response from her?

I guess I am trying to nail down when, if ever, a child's accident in a restaurant does not warrnat public reproach in your opinion? Or an adult's accident for that matter, if I understood your last comment right Arduinna.

Oh, yes, a down and dirty debate


----------



## guest^ (Oct 29, 2002)

I guess I don't get admitted into the MDC perfect motherhood club. Bummer. But then again, I would have to have angelic dc whose feet float in the air entering and exiting the restaurants. At the first scream or discontent, I would immediately have to exit the restaurant,food in my mouth,drink half full. Because God forbid I should try to slam my drink, gather my families things and get the [email protected]*ll out of there.

I mean seriously. Come on. I think those of you who are flaming me ought to go back and reread my first 2 posts.

The issue here was never a shrieking,running wild child. This is a 2 yo who was next to me.

The pot was NOT broken, it was *gasp!* knocked over.

The 21 yo single,childless hostess was out of line.

Quote by arduinna:" I have a feeling that as in the OP any employee stating the obvious(too much noise, or broken items) would be seen as "super rude". Seems we live in a world where no one should comment on the actions of their children"

WTF????? I find your comment rude and disrespectful. You don't have a clue what I am about.
So I will tell you!
I am a polite,respectful,courteous and compassionate person to others. I EXPECT others to treat me the same. If someone has a problem with me or my children, they can express themselves respectfully and nicely. Nastiness is dark energy, and I don't need it and I avoid it.
I care for people on a basic human level. Raised in the midwest,friendly,hardworking and damn proud of it.
Been thru a lot of sh#& in my life and still treated people with respect-even those who have min. wage jobs. I remember to ask our servers how their such and such is doing. I ask the grocery bagger how his mom is doing. I ask the HFS clerk how she likes working there fulltime as opposed to pt. I offer to hold strangers babies as they chase down their toddlers or pay the clerks at Target. I am a people person. I treat people nicely.

Had the girl given me a chance, I would have been on the floor cleaning the damn mess up myself. But since she didn't even so much as look at me when she hastily came over, who had the chance?

ANother quote by Arduinna:
" I used to be a server, and dealt with my fair share of unsupervised children, screaming ones, extremely messy ones ect. Management always kissed butt to the parents face and then told us what they really thought. A free meal is a cheap payoff in the long run when the person will come back and spend more money.
I don't get the attitude that the whole world revolves around anyones child?? Yes, children should be taken to restaurants (we took dd from birth) but that doesn't mean they are more important than any other diner there. My dd is very well behaved in restaurants and in peoples homes because she was raised to be. To be completely inconsiderate of other diners, the wait staff and the public in general while out creates self centered and bratty children and selfish adults IMO."

I can't really tell if you are taking another jab at me here?

Let's see, at a very conservative estimate, I have spent at least $4,200 (not including tip) there in the last 5 years alone(been going there for almost 20 yrs) and expect to keep going another 5 or more years. And for what? A good meal. I clean up after my children to the point that my family will be out of the restaurant and there I am underneath the fricken table cleaning up after my kids....BECAUSE I CARE ABOUT THE FREAKIN SERVERS AND DON'T THINK THEY SHOULD HAVE TO DO IT! Why? Because like I posted in my original post, I have been a server,hostess,grocery store clerk,pizza delivery gal...you name it, I've BTDT! Yes, since I left a good part of my meal and half my drink sitting at the table, I deserved to be compensated.

AND another thing... my children are well behaved as is appropriate to their age. My ds *was* supervised. I don't need any judgements about how I am raising bratty,selfish kids just because i let my ds down RIGHT NEXT TO ME in a restaurant.
I guess Arduinna, your dc are perfect. Perhaps you'd like to share some of your advice to raising perfect children?

That is fine that some of you think it is *horrible* to let your dc down in restaurants. I for one think that a couple of minutes down as we quickly finish doesn't mean we are clueless parents raising bratty kids.

I would ask if we could agree to disagree,but obviously this thread just won't end.

I came here for advice and support. I don't need to be treated so disrespectfully and rudely.

mp


----------



## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by mamapoppins_
*The 21 yo single,childless hostess was out of line.
*
What's your point? Which one do you have a problem with?

Young?
Single?
or Childless?

It sounds to me like you have issues with the hostess that go way beyond her "rude" comment.


----------



## guest^ (Oct 29, 2002)

I absolutely feel that I deserve one however.

The owner ASKED me WHAT COULD BE DONE to make things right. I told him an apology would be satisfactory.

I am not a perfect person. When I am rude to someone, I APOLOGIZE. I expect others to do the same.

Just yesterday, I had called the docs office to get a prescription. After hours, the nurse finally called back to say that the doc was gone but that another doc had filled the script,but with explicit instructions to NOT BF. I snapped big time at the nurse while quoting Thomas Hale,etc..

I was at the end of my coping rope with the kids as I had not really slept the night before....I felt bad all night. Today, I CALLED TO APOLOGIZE.

Treat others the way you want to be treated. *That* is how I am raising my dc.

OT- I would beware of approaching other patrons in public about the way they are raising their dc......my sis was eating at a very upscale Indian restaurant in a major midwestern city,when she saw a woman repeatedly slapping her toddler on the face whenever the girl tried to get noisy,etc....my sis walkedover to her on her way out and said something like parenting was hard, but there are other ways of handling toddlers,and could my sis hold the child so the woman could finish eating. The woman grabbed my sisby the neck and smashed her face to the table.














Yes, the police got involved. But my sis has never,ever said anything to anyone in public about their parenting since. Freaks are everywhere. This lady was dressed nice and seemed mormal. Very sad for the little girl and my sis.
























mp


----------



## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

OMG I can't believe that last story.







Makes you want to grab that child and run far away w/her.








Wow, you've started quite a little debate w/o ever having that intention. I think "you" got lost in the generalized debate over children in public places; ie. seen and not heard vx. running wild. So, I sure wouldn't take anything personally anymore. At this point, it surely seems to be a purely rhetorical argument.

Go have a margarita and enjoy your free dinner.


----------



## guest^ (Oct 29, 2002)

Quote by Choli:
What's your point? Which one do you have a problem with?

Young?
Single?
or Childless?

It sounds to me like you have issues with the hostess that go way beyond her "rude" comment.

End of quote

Have you read my previous posts on this topic? Your answer is there in my posts!

mp


----------



## Jane (May 15, 2002)

I agree with BusyMommy about the recent general nature of the conversation.

For your original posting, I got that the hostess is a bitch. She would react to any situation with that attitude. While it normally doesn't bother you that much, it involved your child and that made you very mad.

If I've learned anything from this thread, it's that parents take comments about their children VERY seriously. As evidenced by the story about the sister and the irate mother.

I stand by my comments about noisy children, but I wouldn't say it relates to the episode you related, mamapoppins.


----------



## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

Quote:

The 21 yo single,childless hostess was out of line.
and your point is?
The story about your sister....i am a bit skeptical. Someone would smash your sisters face for an innocent comment? Police involvement, no less. I would bet my last dollar that she wasnt as nice as you think. (this is not to say i advocate violence).

Quote:

I guess I don't get admitted into the MDC perfect motherhood club.
Me neither MP. remember i'm a rightwinger who gave her kids pacifiers :LOL

Arduinna


----------



## irishprincess71 (Mar 22, 2003)

Oceanbaby -

I]This is exactly the problem I am talking about! So because an adult is more likely to put up resistance, let them act like an ass, but because kids are expected to be subserviant, and because parents (especially moms - notice dads don't seem to get this kind of rude behavior) are expected to be ashamed and made to feel guilty for the actions of their children, then we think they need to be spoken to if their child dares to annoy us.[/I]

Yes, an adult can act like an #%@ and everyone will not only think of them as such but think of their parents as failing to teach them proper manners.

Subservient by dictionary definition means subordinate in capacity or function. Guess what!!!! Subservient describes children. Children are subservient in capacity. The capacity to understand the proper behavior in certain situations and therefore, it is a PARENT'S responsiblity to teach them proper behavior. I would HOPE that a parent is in the habit of teaching their children not only proper manners but doing so when it warrants it. Such as when someone comes up to them and says something.

You are right most of us are not talking about your everyday occasional accident that can happen to an adult or child or even occaisional loud behavior. But there have been some comments here that seem to suggest that regardless of the behavior it is the child's RIGHT to act however they want, and the parent's right to allow them to distrup and disturb other people around them. I don't have the time at the moment to cut and edit but if you want I can do so later. The first one that comes to mind is Jen and girls comment about knocking anyone on their #%@ for EVER saying anything to her.


----------



## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Heartmama, when I break things I take full responsability for it accident or not. And again, yes I don't see anyone stating the obivous such as if you were looking straight ahead you wouldn't have walked into the wall (for example) as "super rude". I mean really, if someone isn't watching where they are walking or driving isn't a natural consequence to bang into something?? Is it the walls fault? The builder of the houses fault? No it's mine for not watching where I'm going.

This has absolutely nothing to do with perfect behavior, it has everything to do with the maturity to accept responsability for ones actions. My kid isn't perfect and neither am I. But I don't blame my mother for having the VCR within dds reach when dd put some change in it when I wasn't looking. Do I expect my mom to take responsability for it? Do I expect her to be happy about her broken VCR? Do I replace it? Or do I tell everyone I know how it never would have happend if my mom hadn't put the VCR there?


----------



## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

Quote:

You are right most of us are not talking about your everyday occasional accident that can happen to an adult or child or even occaisional loud behavior. But there have been some comments here that seem to suggest that regardless of the behavior it is the child's RIGHT to act however they want, and the parent's right to allow them to distrup and disturb other people around them. I don't have the time at the moment to cut and edit but if you want I can do so later. The first one that comes to mind is Jen and girls comment about knocking anyone on their #%@ for EVER saying anything to her.
ITA.

Quote:

This has absolutely nothing to do with perfect behavior, it has everything to do with the maturity to accept responsability for ones actions. My kid isn't perfect and neither am I. But I don't blame my mother for having the VCR within dds reach when dd put some change in it when I wasn't looking. Do I expect my mom to take responsability for it? Do I expect her to be happy about her broken VCR? Do I replace it? Or do I tell everyone I know how it never would have happend if my mom hadn't put the VCR there?
Excellent point Ard.


----------



## padomi (Dec 28, 2002)

mamapoppins - if I were you I'd tell the owner directly - don't leave it in the hands of someone else to pass along the message. He obviously likes having your business all these years. He should know if he one of his employees is rude and insensitive.

All I have to say is, this hostess must not have kids. And if she does, she must have never tried eating out with them! I'm always so saddened that people aren't more tolerant of children in public. I'm reminded of Continuum Concept. Kids learn by experiencing life with adults. This includes going to public places. Children are a fact of life. And they are curious and wiggly and their little hands work faster than you can catch them sometimes. I, too, do my BEST to make sure things go smoothly and keep my child close, but as anyone with kids knows, sh*t happens! It's the hostess' problem - not yours. You're a valued customer. Talk to the owner. I'm sure he'll make you feel better.


----------



## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by mamapoppins_
*I told him we deserved a face to face apology,but would accept a written one*
Since you said you didn't demand an apology, I figured I'd quote where you gave him the option of making her give you one face to face or written. Sorry, but it sure looks to me like you are demanding one since these were the only two options you gave him. You specifically told him this is what you wanted to make it better, so you definately requested it.


----------



## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

This is what is so baffling to me "sh*t happens! It's the hostess' problem - not yours". How is not your problem when your kid is the one that did it??


----------



## rainsmom (Dec 5, 2001)

oh boy..................


----------



## MoonLissa (May 3, 2003)

*edited until I can read ALL The posts...since it was suggested I do that before opening my "mouth" and because things posted after my original response are REALLY confusing me about the entire point of this thread*

Anyone got a shoehorn?? Size 9/12 Wide, please.
























^^Liss


----------



## rainsmom (Dec 5, 2001)

NAK

you should really read the posts inbetween the first and last..........not an attack........its just not adding/helping anything to an already heated thread


----------



## MoonLissa (May 3, 2003)

So...was something discussed about toys or other amusements for little ones? I didn't see any reference or quote.

If it's been discussed already, then maybe it needs to show up again. I see a lot of that on these threads. If one MORE mention is going to push someone else over the edge...well....









^^Liss


----------



## irishprincess71 (Mar 22, 2003)

Sweetbaby -

I believe that any woman capable of repeatedly slapping her child's face in a public place just to make them be quiet is quite capable of slamming a stranger's face to the table. If you treat your loved ones like that, a perfect strange has no hope of kindness from you.


----------



## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

Arduinna, I feel like we are talking about two entirely different episodes.

You are describing one that where an out of control, unsperivised 2 year old breaks a pot. The parents demand an apology for the pot being there in the first place, and blame the entire incident on the staff for occuring in the first place.

I read the OP and she stated over and over that she felt responsible for the pot, was prepared to clean it up herself, and before she had a chance to do it, the hostess was so rude to her family, they felt it was better to leave their unfinished meal and make a quiet exit than stick around and make a bad situation worse.

I mean, why are you so angry with the OP? You seem and sweetbaby seem really pissed off and I am trying to figure out what exactly you would have done differently?

Also, you haven't addressed whether you think it is okay for someone to make you feel bad for having an accident. You said:

-----------

"This has absolutely nothing to do with perfect behavior, it has everything to do with the maturity to accept responsability for ones actions. My kid isn't perfect and neither am I. But I don't blame my mother for having the VCR within dds reach when dd put some change in it when I wasn't looking. Do I expect my mom to take responsability for it? Do I expect her to be happy about her broken VCR? Do I replace it? Or do I tell everyone I know how it never would have happend if my mom hadn't put the VCR there?"

---------------
That doesn't explain why it is okay for someone to treat you rudely because you had an accident in the first place, does it? The mom in the OP never had a chance to say anything, let alone lay blame, before the hostess started with the rude attitude, did she? The apology isn't for the pot, it's for the grief the hostess gave her, right?


----------



## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

sweetbaby3 wrote:

Quote:

The story about your sister....i am a bit skeptical.
And if we thought people handled criticism of their children badly, folks they don't handle it much better when you suggest they are liars!










I'd like to keep this going in the right direction. Anyone want me to insult their religion?


----------



## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

Heartmama - Just wanted to say that you save me a lot of posting! Thank you!


----------



## irishprincess71 (Mar 22, 2003)

|I'd like to keep this going in the right direction. Anyone want me to insult their religion?|

Me First, Me First!


----------



## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Heartmama, I answered those question repeatedly in my previous posts.


----------



## PAflower (May 12, 2002)

You make me laugh. thanks.


----------



## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

Quote:

but as anyone with kids knows, sh*t happens! It's the hostess' problem - not yours.
are you serious?

Quote:

If you treat your loved ones like that, a perfect strange has no hope of kindness from you
Point well taken, IP

Quote:

You seem and sweetbaby seem really pissed off and I am trying to figure out what exactly you would have done differently?
Kept my child in his seat. had he been in his seat, he would not have knocked over the plant. I also have a problem with this:

Quote:

I told him we deserved a face to face apology,but would accept a written one

Quote:

I'd like to keep this going in the right direction. Anyone want me to insult their religion?








:LOL


----------



## rda (Apr 13, 2002)

Arduinna - I have read this entire thread and I don't think you _have_ responded to the points in heartmamas post.

Heartmama wrote:

==============================================
Also, you haven't addressed whether you think it is okay for someone to make you feel bad for having an accident. You said:

-----------

"This has absolutely nothing to do with perfect behavior, it has everything to do with the maturity to accept responsability for ones actions. My kid isn't perfect and neither am I. But I don't blame my mother for having the VCR within dds reach when dd put some change in it when I wasn't looking. Do I expect my mom to take responsability for it? Do I expect her to be happy about her broken VCR? Do I replace it? Or do I tell everyone I know how it never would have happend if my mom hadn't put the VCR there?"
==============================================

This analogy is not accurate if you are trying to compare it to the OP's situation. How would you feel if your mom launched into a bitchy tirade about your kids misbehavior? Wouldn't you feel that was unnecessarily rude?

Even if you disagree with the OP having let her child out of his seat, the fact remains that an accident happened, and before she could even make any kind of reparations she was treated rudely by the hostess. THAT is the point in question. There was no valid reason for the hostess to speak to her that way. Period. She was right to have brought it to the managers attention. When the manager asked how they could make it up to her, she said an apology would suffice. That is not demanding an apology, it isn't really even requesting one, IMO.

Please help some of us to understand your position on the actual situation from the OP, because your comments seem to be about something other than that.


----------



## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

ya might want to read some of my previous posts. I won't be answering the same questions I've already answered.

Sorry for those of you don't understand but I feel that I've been as clear as I can be.


----------



## guest^ (Oct 29, 2002)

Busymama- I would love to enjoy that well deserved free dinner and drink....unfortunately dh is working another 70 hr work wk....so I don't see that happening soon.







: But have decided that when i do, I will be bringing the hostess the book,"Don't Sweat The Small Stuff.It's All Small Stuff"

----------------------------

As quoted by Apricot:

" If I've learned anything from this thread, it's that parents take comments about their children VERY seriously. As evidenced by the story about the sister and the irate mother. "

----------------------------

Well, if I've learned anything from this thread, it's that people can be just as rude online where MDC is supposed to be a place for support for parenting. Ha! I've been treated rudely and have now been called a liar.
-----------------------------
As quoted by sweetbaby3:
"and your point is?
The story about your sister....i am a bit skeptical. Someone would smash your sisters face for an innocent comment? Police involvement, no less. I would bet my last dollar that she wasnt as nice as you think. (this is not to say i advocate violence)."
-------------------------------
Actually if you go back and actuaLLy *read* all of my posts, you will see in the one where I talk to the owner,that HE makes a point of saying this to me.Prolly to explain her lack of tollerance and rudeness.

as for calling me a liar sweetbaby3......are you incredibly bored to be picking another fight with me? Yk, the only *thing* I left out of the story was that the woman replied to my sis(a 13 yr member of LLL) and I quote from the police report,"NOONE TELLS ME HOW TO RAISE MY KID" this was said as she grabbed my sister's neck to bring sis closer to her head as she had been standing over her. There was an assault charge filed against the woman and child abuse charges filed against the woman.

So I ask....what the hell purpose does it serve me to lie about a sad story that has nothing to do with me and that happened 5 yrs ago????

With the way you play, I would hold onto your money.

--------------------------
Quote by Arduinna:
" This has absolutely nothing to do with perfect behavior, it has everything to do with the maturity to accept responsability for ones actions."
-----------------------------

This is ridiculous! AS was stated in at least 2 posts of mine, I DID APOLOGIZE IMMEDIATELY. AND AGAIN TO THE OWNER-WHO WOULD HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ME TRYING TO APOLOGIZE.

When at a restaurant an accident happens, the patron will apologize and regardless of whether it was caused by child or adult, help to also clean it up will be offered. The ball is then in the workers hand to act PROFESSIONALLY AND WITH POLITENESS.

The hostess acted unprofessionally and very rude,brushing off my apology and harshly judging me. WAAAAAAAAAAY out of line. She knew it herself as she admitted it to the owner.

----------------------------
As Quoted by Arduinna:
"Since you said you didn't demand an apology, I figured I'd quote where you gave him the option of making her give you one face to face or written. Sorry, but it sure looks to me like you are demanding one since these were the only two options you gave him. You specifically told him this is what you wanted to make it better, so you definately requested it"
------------------------------

I did NOT call up and DEMAND an apology. I was ASKED what could be done to make things right. I answered that I deserved an apology either in person or written.That is not DEMANDING. And who cares if I did anyway????? I have always treated every person in that restaurant like a friend. Being very nice, asking about their families and school,etc and on this night, an accident happened cuz I was a HORRIBLE MOTHER and couldn't stop an accident from happening. I tried to apologize. I TOOK RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE ACCIDENT. I DID NOT BLAME THE HOSTESS. What posts have ya'll been reading to think that I did?

-------------------------------
Another quote by Arduinna:

"This is what is so baffling to me "sh*t happens! It's the hostess' problem - not yours". How is not your problem when your kid is the one that did it?"
-----------------------------------

That's right, sh^t does happen. And we felt bad and tried to apologize. BUT .......BOOOHOOO







The poor hostess can't handle it and so she tells me off,kicking me while I'm already down. That is such bullsh^t, and *I* as a paying customer don't have to take that kind of crap.

-----------------------------
quote from rda:

"This analogy is not accurate if you are trying to compare it to the OP's situation. How would you feel if your mom launched into a bitchy tirade about your kids misbehavior? Wouldn't you feel that was unnecessarily rude?

Even if you disagree with the OP having let her child out of his seat, the fact remains that an accident happened, and before she could even make any kind of reparations she was treated rudely by the hostess. THAT is the point in question. There was no valid reason for the hostess to speak to her that way. Period. She was right to have brought it to the managers attention. When the manager asked how they could make it up to her, she said an apology would suffice. That is not demanding an apology, it isn't really even requesting one, IMO.

Please help some of us to understand your position on the actual situation from the OP, because your comments seem to be about something other than that."
_______________________

Well said.

mp


----------



## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

_I'm closing this thread. It's gotten off topic, and very nasty. I apologize for not catching this a whole lot sooner._


----------

