# Do you believe being Gay/Lesbian is a choice??



## Marg of Arabia (Nov 19, 2001)

I do not think so. But, either way I support swinging the other way regardless.
I have heard some here say that many believe it is a choice. These are the same people who believe that if it is legalized it will somehow influence children into being gay.

What do you think?? BTW, I am not talking about a bi-sexual who decides to be gay.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

I really firmly believe that being gay is NOT a choice. I have witnessed the pain and stress of quite of few of my gay friends when they have decided to tell their family/friends that they are indeed gay. I often think why would anyone put themselves through such pain on purpose. It takes such strength on the part of the person who is gay to tell a family member or friend who clearly is antigay or has serious issues towards homosexuality. It is a part of the person from the moment of conception, I believe, not a conscious choice.
I recall my friend ( male) having a crush on the male teacher in grade one and I really did not think this was odd until I was told it was odd my older family members.

ETA: I have two lesbian friends who are lifepartners and just had their first child. Do I think this child will also be a lesbian just because her parents are? NO way. This child is what this child is, and that will be accepted no matter if she is gay or not. It is not a choice or an influence of ones surroundings, I truely believe that it just is who the person is. KWIM?


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## MelMel (Nov 9, 2002)

i dont think its a choice. but i voted who cares, non of my business. being a certain religion is a choice, yet that is acceptable..so even if someone thinks its a choice, why does that make it any different to them? to each his own. everyone should get the same protection even if they 'choose' certain lifestyles. (not that gays fall into that, since I personally believe that it isnt a choice, as I have stated)

that made no sense, but i am tired and should go take a nap with my kiddo (I was crabbier than she was







: )

:LOL


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Being hetero isn't a choice and neither is being GLBT.

BTW, I have no idea where the disclaimer about bi's "choosing to be gay" came from. Speaking only for myself, my sexual identity isn't a choice, period.


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## Bladestar5 (Jan 5, 2003)

I voted other. For some it is just a game, or experimentation to try to be cool and fit in with gay friends...at least that is how it was for a girl I went to highschool with....
for others it is genetic, and they are predestined to be gay.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

BTW, I just wanted to add that this idea that bi's choose to be gay confuses sexual identity with action. If someone is hetero, they are hetero even if they are being celibate. Bi people can have opposite sex or same sex partners (as can gays or heteros) but it doesn't automatically change their sexual identity.

Sexual identity is about alot more than what you do.


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## roshismomma (Mar 19, 2002)

my sexuality definitely isnt a choice and has been more of a learning experience (bi, and married, its complicated







)

but i voted none of my business, cause if someone feels it was a choice for *them*, that's none of my business.


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## anothermama (Nov 11, 2003)

I don't know.

I think that waaaay back in the "olden" days...maybe it was a choice.

I think that societaly today we've created so many things that pin people into certain lives that I don't know...maybe society has created people who really are gay from an early age and have no choice in the matter.

I voted other but I really don't think it matters. The ONLY thing that makes a gay person different than me is the gender of the person they have sex with.......and since when did who you sleep with become that big a deal? I dont like that idea that it matters who you have consentual sex with AT ALL.


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## BeeandOwlsMum (Jul 11, 2002)

Okay - this is coming back! (see I told you I would try!







)

I just want to remind everyone to please be respectful on this thread. Everyone has been so far, and I would like to keep it this way.

Thanks!


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## Katie Bugs Mama (Feb 1, 2004)

I voted "no," although my real answer of choice would have been "no--and who gives a rat's ass, it's not my business."

While people can choose to experiment with different types of sexual partners, I firmly believe that the real, bone-deep orientation that an individual settles on as he or she matures past the experimental stage is not the least bit optional.

As someone else mentioned, why in the world would someone choose to be gay? In most parts of the world today, this is a dangerous, painful, lonely choice.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

I'll come out of the woodwork and admit--- I said "Other." WARNING: I AM NOT TRYING TO BE OFFENSIVE.

I think for many, many people being Gay is not a choice--- it is biologically ingrained.

I do think for some people, though, perhaps they were "meant" to be hetero or bi and they are *forced* into the choice of being gay at a very young age. I see this mostly with women who have been abused (generally sexually) by exclusively males at a very young age. There seems to have been some switch, IMO, thrown that can not be thrown back. So, they may not be biologically gay, but they no longer have choice in the matter, either. That said, I am sure that there are at least as many people born gay who are so terrified of the possible repercussions that they "choose" to live a straight lifestyle.

I believe that there is a biological basis for homosexuality (and if you look into the animal kingdom this is backed up. In fact, as the population rises we would expect to see more and more people born gay).

In expression, of course, there is a choice. I am hetero (consider myself to be, but I think the women have more options there in our culture, I'm monogomous though so *hetero*) and I could choose, I guess, to be celibate making my orientation a non-issue. But that would, in no way, change my biology. So at that point it definately comes down to, "Who cares?"


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## Marg of Arabia (Nov 19, 2001)

Thanks for coming out! TiredX2!









I am wondering why the 4 who answered yes on the poll haven't spoken up yet?


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## Els' 3 Ones (Nov 19, 2001)

Do we need them to ?

I mean, they've made it known many times over how they feel. And why.


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## Marg of Arabia (Nov 19, 2001)

TRUE


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## MamaSoleil (Apr 24, 2002)

I voted who cares...

Live and let live!


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## ~Jenna~ (Dec 7, 2003)

I read in a book that most homosexuals have physical differences in their brains than heteros. So to me that means it's not a choice. Even if it were a choice though, I still think it is a valid choice


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

That's the biology I am referring to. But, it is much more obvious (and conclusive) for men than women thus far.


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

I used to think that if we could prove that being gay isn't a choice, that it's biological, then the christians and others would drop the issue. Sort of like the whole earth-revolves-round-the-sun controversy centuries ago.

But I have come to sadly realize that it simply doesn't matter. These people have made their stand, and it is so obviously based in xenophobia, ignorance, and sometimes just pure hatred that there is no "logicking" your way around it.

My mother, who I love dearly, but whose religion and politics make me







has already explained to me that even if gays are so "by nature", the bible clearly calls them to celibacy. She said just like priests are "biologically" attracted to women, and yet must remain celebate, so gays who are "biologically" attracted to members of the same sex must also remain celibate. Kind of makes you wonder what god was thinking to make people gay and then prohibit them from sex. At least priests have a choice.







:

What I find interesting about this is that, if the above argument is actually true, why aren't christians rabidly lobbying for laws against common-law marriage (living in sin!), criminalizing premarital sex (fornication!) and prohibiting divorce (destruction of marriage!)? Seems to me if it's celibacy you are so hung up about, why limit the venom to just one group of "sexual sinners"? Funny how it's this ONE PARTICULAR group of "sinners" who attract so much attention. Now why do you suppose that is?







:

Anyways, I voted "who cares". I do believe it is not a choice, but even if it was, so what? Being any form of religion is also a choice, and your rights to practice that religion are entrenched in law.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

I have come to that conclusion as well Piglet.

BIL compares homosexuality to murder & stealing--- things you might want to do, even have a biological tendancy towards (with XYY and the like) but MUST NOT do because they are wrong. uke But, IMO, even if it were "wrong" as it doesn't affect anyone else people need to make their own decisions. There is no nobility in doing the right thing if it is the law. Only when you make the choice to do the right thing in the face of opposition to it.


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## DebraBaker (Jan 9, 2002)

I think it's genetic but more like a continuum rather than this is the gay gene and this is the straight gene. I think a lot of people are switch hitters and could be any or both but there are some people who are completely gay.

Think about it, with the thousands of years of persecution who would have chosen that for themselves??

I didn't vote but I'm leaning toward who cares because, in the end, it's none of my business.

DB


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

Quote:

What I find interesting about this is that, if the above argument is actually true, why aren't christians rabidly lobbying for laws against common-law marriage (living in sin!), criminalizing premarital sex (fornication!) and prohibiting divorce (destruction of marriage!)?
Ehhh, that would be because evangelical christians have higher divorce rates than the general public.

I think you are born gay. It's not a choice. I have a gay cousin, and we all knew he was somehow different from the time we were kids, back before we all knew that homosexuality even existed. He explains that it's all about who you are attracted to. That's not something one can control.

I've also talked to people who have gone through a "reorientation" program through a religious denomination. Over the long haul, it doesn't work. What it leaves behind is tragic.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:

I think a lot of people are switch hitters and could be any or both but there are some people who are completely gay.
ITA. I think in an open culture you would see a LOT of bi-sexuals! But in the society we are in, where the message is so hetero-biased from such an early age we are just encouraged to exclude those feelings from ourselves and "be" straight. I especially think this is true for men and that the "macho" backlash against gays is actually a further way of seperating from that.


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by TiredX2_
*I think for many, many people being Gay is not a choice--- it is biologically ingrained.

I do think for some people, though, perhaps they were "meant" to be hetero or bi and they are *forced* into the choice of being gay at a very young age. I see this mostly with women who have been abused (generally sexually) by exclusively males at a very young age. There seems to have been some switch, IMO, thrown that can not be thrown back. So, they may not be biologically gay, but they no longer have choice in the matter, either.

I believe that there is a biological basis for homosexuality (and if you look into the animal kingdom this is backed up. In fact, as the population rises we would expect to see more and more people born gay).*
I Totally Agree.
I also voted other, bc of the same reasons as TiredX2.

I am personally very close to a woman who was sexually abused as a child for years by a close family relative, and in her teenage and adult years chose the life of a lesbian. This lifestyle went on for years, with several longterm committed relationships with women. She has been through years of therapy as well, to deal with this abuse - which only emerged in her consciousness during her early 20's (while dealing with substance abuse issues), and finally in recent years she has decided that she is not a lesbian, and is totally ashamed of her life as a lesbian, and now dates men. But her problems live with her still, and it is very sad to see how this abuse continues to affect her life.

That said, I also believe that many people are naturally, biologically, genetically, whatever, predisposed to being either heterosexual or homosexual. And you know what? I don't really care, either, bc it's none of my business who/what anyone does regarding sex!!!


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## DreamerMama (Feb 2, 2003)

To answer your question, no. I don't think it is a choice. Not only do I not think it is a choice, but I think it is a genetic design in nature with humans.

But, this bugs me:

Quote:

_Originally posted by Marg of Arabia_
*BTW, I am not talking about a bi-sexual who decides to be gay.*
Have you ever heard of the Kinsey scale? A scale that basically shows that peoples sexuality is on a scale and most people fall into the bisexual range of sexual preference.

The bi-sexual doesn't decide if they are gay, they decide to practice a sexual preference that is comfortable to them. It's not any different than being gay. Again, genetics not a decision. They don't decide, they actually perfer a certain partner over another. Kwim? You see they might fall on the scale closer to hetero (like me) and live in a tradtional marriage to an opposite sex partner. Or they might fall closer to gay/lesbian and live a lesbian lifestyle. Either way, they don't choose. It is a genetic preference.

I have known several bi-sexual people that live for years hetro and then eventualy live a gay/lesbian lifestyle. Not, that they can't make up their minds, but they have a wide variety of comfort levels.

Who knows, in twenty years I might just become a big ol butch lesbian :LOL

Jenny

edited to make some freakin sense.


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## sarahwebb (Feb 12, 2002)

Although I agree that it's no one's business, I voted no because that's been my experience.

I am bisexual, and close enough to the middle of the scale that I contemplated spending my life with either a woman or a man. I wanted a long term, monogamous relationship and married a man I had known since high school. It wasn't much of a struggle to "choose" to live as a heterosexual because he is the one I wanted.

But I have contemplated how I might have chosen if the person who seemed to be the right mate was female. I believe it would have been a much more difficult choice, and I might have kept looking for the right man. I've had this discussion with several of my gay and lesbian friends, and they all agree that if it had been a matter of choice, being heterosexual would have been easier.

All this said, I still identify as bisexual because who I chose doesn't change who I am attracted to. This used to drive one of my fundamentalist Christian friends crazy, "You're married, so why do you have to keep saying you're bisexual?" Well, because I am, and God knows it whether or not I say it. Generally, I don't say it. I don't feel like I'm in the closet, and if it comes up in conversation, I'll talk about it. But I don't go around outing myself to everyone. So basically my life is heterosexual.

Best,
Sarah


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## DreamerMama (Feb 2, 2003)

Sarah









My thoughts exactly. I think it is important to understand that the act of choosing isn't the sexual preference, but rather, the partner that you want to spend your life with.


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## SoHappy (Nov 19, 2001)

One of my best friends considers himself "a non-practicing gay man" -- because he hasn't been able to get a date in so long. He would not have chosen this. He is a great guy, a total family-man type. But he can't find a man to share his life with and he's feeling old and sad. I know women who would marry him in a second. If it was a choice, he'd change for the companionship and family life he wants so badly. He can't change. It's who he is.


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## GoodWillHunter (Mar 14, 2003)

I voted "No." I do not believe homosexuality is a choice. As many previous posters have said, "Why would they *choose* a lifestyle that is persecuted?" I believe those who persecute homosexuals are actually terrified of homosexuality. It rings a deep note within. We often lash out at things we are afraid of. I do know that if one of my children is gay, my heart would break for them, as it is a tough lifestyle, but I would support them every step of the way. Besides, I often find women attractive... Very attractive, but, since I am married to DH, I just tell him about it and he smiles and says, good thing I got you first!!!! :LOL


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## radish (Sep 19, 2002)

well said!!!

Quote:

What I find interesting about this is that, if the above argument is actually true, why aren't christians rabidly lobbying for laws against common-law marriage (living in sin!), criminalizing premarital sex (fornication!) and prohibiting divorce (destruction of marriage!)? Seems to me if it's celibacy you are so hung up about, why limit the venom to just one group of "sexual sinners"? Funny how it's this ONE PARTICULAR group of "sinners" who attract so much attention. Now why do you suppose that is?
i voted not a choice.


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## LunaMom (Aug 8, 2002)

I don't think it is a choice; however, behavior is a choice, so if a person defines sexuality by what kind of sex a person has, I could see how they would call it a choice.

I don't define sexual identity by behavior, though...I mean, don't straight people know they are straight when they are still virgins? If it is defined by how one feels, what one finds sexually attractive, then how can that be a choice? I don't choose who to be sexually attracted to, I just AM.

So, sure, people can choose who they sleep with or don't sleep with - there are certainly plenty of people who are gay who have never had gay sex, because they are afraid, or they have been taught to hate themselves, or they just haven't gotten around to it yet







...but that doesn't make them any less gay. JMHO.

And as far as the comment about bisexuals choosing to be gay...I don't really understand that comment. I don't see how a bisexual can choose to be gay or straight - she (or he) is BISEXUAL. Once again, saying that a bisexual can choose to be gay or straight is confusing sexual identity with sexual behavior. Bisexuality is a sexual identity all in itself - it's not some halfway point between straight and gay. That's been hotly debated, of course, but ask any true bisexual and they will probably agree with me!

I'm bi, but I'm married to a man and we're monogamous. That doesn't mean I have chosen to be straight. People THINK I'm straight unless I tell them otherwise (and I usually do tell them), but that's their problem, not mine!


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## DreamerMama (Feb 2, 2003)

Lunamom, very well said, and I couldn't agree more







.


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## Marg of Arabia (Nov 19, 2001)

Yes, and if some of these people would imagine a gay world. They would be the minority hetrosexuals. Can they imagine being told by the gay majority that they can't be married because they love people of the opposite sex? I wish they would put themselves in that situation and then tell me how they can justify telling others who they can marry!


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## DebraBaker (Jan 9, 2002)

There was a Star Trek (Next Generation) episode like that....most of the people were gay and a minority were gendered (straight) and their way of relating to one another was illegal.

I'll try to remember the name of that episode so you can look for it.

It was thought-provoking.

DB =/\=


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## Pynki (Aug 19, 2002)

I remember that episode DB.. In the end didn't the "lady" get put through a "rehabilitation" program, and denounce "her" feelings.. Doesn't sound like anything i've ever heard of happening here on EARTH.. <said with dripping sarcasm>







: :LOL

I voted NO.. It's not a choice.. The person who is gay.. "Just knows".. I have asked friends when i was in high school if they were gay cause i just had a feelings.. I was told no.. A couple of months go by.. Yep.. Gay.. When asked they said they were afraid that i knew.. They had acted affronted at the time to hide their fear.. It bothered me because they thought it would change something inside me about them.. Nope.. Been around gay people my whole life..

One memory that brings a smile to my face is being at one of my parents play cast parties at one of the other players house.. Flaming dyed in wool gay man totally blissed out with a baby in his lap.. Saying he misses his girls being babies.. That he loved babies soooo much.. And he just sat there holding this babe.. Gay people love, and fear, and laugh, and cry just as everyone does.. Just as I didn't ask to be born female no one asks to be born gay, or to be gay.. It doesn't matter whether you die a virgin or have 100's of lovers.. You will always be what you are..

Warm Squishy Feelings..

Dyan


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

QUOTE FROM ZAQ001:
Have you ever heard of the Kinsey scale? A scale that basically shows that peoples sexuality is on a scale and most people fall into the bisexual range of sexual preference.

The bi-sexual doesn't decide if they are gay, they decide to practice a sexual preference that is comfortable to them. It's not any different than being gay. Again, genetics not a decision. They don't decide, they actually perfer a certain partner over another. Kwim? You see they might fall on the scale closer to hetero (like me) and live in a tradtional marriage to an opposite sex partner. Or they might fall closer to gay/lesbian and live a lesbian lifestyle. Either way, they don't choose. It is a genetic preference.








I have always thought this, but didn't know it had a name.

I voted no, obviously.


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## Katie Bugs Mama (Feb 1, 2004)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Marg of Arabia_
*Yes, and if some of these people would imagine a gay world. They would be the minority hetrosexuals. Can they imagine being told by the gay majority that they can't be married because they love people of the opposite sex? I wish they would put themselves in that situation and then tell me how they can justify telling others who they can marry!*
My neighborhood has a very high percentage of same-sex couples of various races, ages, and sex; many of them have children. When I want to give a conservative or homophobic person something to think about, I like to say: "It's a great place to live. Everyone is very accepting of DH and me and our family. They don't hold our heterosexuality against us at all. They know that we were born this way and can't help it." You should see the doubletakes that I get when I say this. :LOL

In all seriousness, I think that it helps to turn the tables sometimes.


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## DebraBaker (Jan 9, 2002)

Awww, Katiebug, please, dont lump all conservatives with the homophobes.

I identify myself as a conservative (actually I'm rather eclectic with my politics) and I know gay people who tend toward conservative views.

I would love to visit you in your community, however, because we live in the far suburbs and, well, we don't have a lot of gay folk here.

There's a gay couple down the street and that's about it. Dittos for other local neighborhoods....generally there's one gay family and they're quiet about it, it'd be nice to see a rainbow neighborhood. Good friends of my DD and SIL are trying to build a "gayborhood" in the middle of Philly.

I guess I'll just make a point of actually *going* to outfest one of these years









db


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## DebraBaker (Jan 9, 2002)

Pynki,

yes, she was put through "rehab" (what the old Communist States would call re-education) and was appropriately gay in the end.

DB


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## morgan's_mom (Aug 25, 2002)

[edited because I found what I was asking for a link to!]


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