# Empathizing vs. Patronizing



## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

My DH brought up an interesting point (or at least I thought it was interesting...) one evening recently. I was empathizing with my DS that he couldn't climb up on his windowsill







, that I understood he wanted to go up there, but that it was dangerous and he wasn't allowed to do that.

My DH made the observation that I should be careful how much I empathize, because he finds that kind of thing annoying and patronizing...OK, I realize he is an adult, but how much of that might be true for a child?.....like empathizing but then still saying "no" to somehting, could it be taken by your child as disingenuous?

So, how do you get across to your child that you're validating their feelings, and they have every right to feel that way, BUT...... (whatever) without condescending or patronizing?

Perhaps it's the same thing as expressing any other emotion, the more matter-of-fact (less over the top) about it you are, the better received it is.

Any thoughts?

FWIW, I can sort of see DH's point...if someone kept sayign to me every time something didn't go my way, "I can see you're upset. I know you really wanted to X, but that can't happen because of Y. It's OK to be upset, but you still can't X" could get kind of irritating if done time and time again. Like, I don't need someone to tell me it's OK to feel X way, because it's my feeling. So as long as you don't stifle a child's feelings by telling them to *stop* crying, or being sad, or mad, or whatever, do you really need to go out of your way to reflect their feelings? or will they understand internally that because you're not preventign them from haivng their feelings, that the feelings are OK to have?

I just don't want to come across as "mocking" my DS when I empathize, if you know what I mean....that was another term DH threw around (I've mostly converted him from a yelling, spanking, punitive upbringing, so we do have some very interestign discussions...)

Thanks for any thougths anyone has! Sorry for any typos, I don't have time to proof this right now, but will probably cringe later when I come back this evening or tomorrow!


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

I actually brought this up on anotherboard because I HATE when someone tells me Oh your sad or oh your mad you can't go outside Allways have. I learned something diffrent people react in diffrent ways. I think it has much to do with personalities. Id pay attention to what feed back your getting from your child to judge whats best for him.
Deanna


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## **guest** (Jun 25, 2004)

i think it depends how you say it.

if a friend told me 'i see you are upset that you can't come'. hmm depending on intonation, could be patronising.

if she were to come over, and sigh, and quietly offer a hug, and brought me a cup of tea, and said 'sad, eh'. hmm, more empathising.

depends WHO (how close relationship) says it, and HOW. and WHY (motive).

i think if it becomes a habit on our part, a sort of a mindless 'good job', we might unwittingly patronise.

gotta be 'real' :LOL dr. phil :LOL


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Yeah, this is something my dh struggles with, I think because he's not so good at expressing the positive "mushy" emotions, they sometimes come across as harsh/mocking/didactic/patronizing. Drives me nuts, but my dd responds better than I do, mostly, and I just appreciate his effort so much. Very few emotions were displayed in his family of origin, including sympathy, sadness, disappointment, so I just have to applaud his effort.

I personally think that if you REALLY are trying to relate to your kid and REALLY feel sympathy and empathy and can understand where they're coming from, it's going to come across.


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## BellinghamCrunchie (Sep 7, 2005)

I think it has to do with how you feel when you are saying it. If you are feeling geniunely empathic and compassionate, then you really can't go wrong. However, if you are just saying it because you want to get through it or don't really care, then it would be patronizing. But I guess it just depends on how the person receives it.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Thanks for your thougts ladies, they were helpful!

Ah, now I have one more thing to obsess about and overanalyze! :LOL

I never realized that when I became a parent I would be so concerned with semantics, intent, and motivation.....but I am!

I always appreciate the insight I gain from other mamas here; I'll be sure to see how DS is reacting to my reflections, and if I see that he's starting to appear annoyed or whatever, I'll tone them down a bit - I appreciated the comment about the "oh I can see you're upset" vs. "sad, eh?" - I think that's a great example and I'll keep that in the back of my mind when responding to DS's upsets.


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## quidditchmom (Jun 18, 2005)

I don't think that most children would find it as annoying as most adults. As an adult, you know that many people will try to tell you what they think you want them to, whether they mean it or not, "I know you're upset..."









But when you say this to your child, unless you're in the habit of lying to him on a regular basis :LOL , he's not going to find it patronizing, IMHO.

Now, if you were to say "ya, ya, I know you want to be on the window sill, but get down and now I'm going to go do the dishes" THAT would be different. But it sounds like you are

1. acknowledging his feelings/desires
2. setting appropriate limits
3. explaining the need for the limits and hopefully not forgetting
4. comforting him if he needs it

It would be the same as your husband saying to you, "I know you really wanted to go on vacation in Jamaica, but we're going to have to go somewhere closer because I didn't get the bonus I was expecting at work and we just can't afford it" and then hugging you because you really had your heart set on it.

I know that example might have an anti feministic quality, but it's all I could think of







. It would work the other way around if you're the one making mad cash









Oh, and the repetition, though it might get to us, I don't think phases a small child. I for one read the book "Wocket in my Pocket" by Dr. Suess five million gazzillion times when my ds was tiny. Unfortunately, even when it got to the point where I was dreaming about zelfs and ninks and yeps and nellars he still didn't tire of the repetition.


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## Ione (Jul 22, 2002)

Another thing to remember is that adults (well, most hopefully) have already learned to verbalise their feelings and identify "angry", "sad", "frustrated", "happy", etc. and the physical reactions that go with those feelings. And, if they are at least fairly well-adjusted they know that their feelings are OK and won't make the most important people in their world love them less. And, depending on the situation of course, know things like "I'm feeling angry at my boss but I still have to go to work..."

Babies and toddlers are in the process of learning these things. They do need caring adults around them to give them the words to process these feelings. Remember how you physically felt when in a blind rage over something... now, imagine that you did not know what was happening and why you were feeling the pounding heart etc. Scary, huh?

What could (depending on how said & done) be patronizing to another adult with a life's worth of experience dealing with emotions is less likely to be patronizing for a baby/toddler when what is being said is giving them valuable information: what I'm feeling is "angry", it's an OK reaction to X, it doesn't change X...

Does that make any sense?


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I think it would sound patronizing to an adult because you'd be talking to an adult like he/she was a child. But it isn't patronizing to talk to a child like a child.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ione*
Another thing to remember is that adults (well, most hopefully) have already learned to verbalise their feelings and identify "angry", "sad", "frustrated", "happy", etc. and the physical reactions that go with those feelings. And, if they are at least fairly well-adjusted they know that their feelings are OK and won't make the most important people in their world love them less. And, depending on the situation of course, know things like "I'm feeling angry at my boss but I still have to go to work..."

Babies and toddlers are in the process of learning these things. They do need caring adults around them to give them the words to process these feelings. Remember how you physically felt when in a blind rage over something... now, imagine that you did not know what was happening and why you were feeling the pounding heart etc. Scary, huh?

What could (depending on how said & done) be patronizing to another adult with a life's worth of experience dealing with emotions is less likely to be patronizing for a baby/toddler when what is being said is giving them valuable information: what I'm feeling is "angry", it's an OK reaction to X, it doesn't change X...

Does that make any sense?


Yes!!! Great point!!


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee*
I think it would sound patronizing to an adult because you'd be talking to an adult like he/she was a child. But it isn't patronizing to talk to a child like a child.









:

But, I'd still watch your son's reactions. Even when I was very young, I tended to feel that adults were being condescending/patronizing (even if I didn't know those words) when the other kids around didn't feel the same way. So, to some extent, it depends on your child's personality.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Wow, more thoughts -thanks!! It's becoming much clearer to me, and I appreciate some of your thoughts especially so I can help explain to DH too if he ever brings it up again.

This is also helping me understand the value of helping a child learn to label their feelings by reflecting them and giving them the name to know and use for the future.

I will watch him and follow his cues, as I do with pretty much everything else - if he's anything like his dad, I may need to pull back on the empathy, so I'll just need to stay really tuned in to him and see how he takes it.









Great, great stuff. Thanks again!


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*







:

But, I'd still watch your son's reactions. Even when I was very young, I tended to feel that adults were being condescending/patronizing (even if I didn't know those words) when the other kids around didn't feel the same way. So, to some extent, it depends on your child's personality.

yup!!! i am there now. my dd says 'stop it' when i start verbalising so now i am figuring out a whole new route of how to handle her tantrum or emotions. sometimes i have noticed all she needs is me just sitting next to her and ready to give her a hug when she needs it. but i am really struggling to 'grow up'/change with her. sometimes its just eye contact she needs. it is difficult let me tell u as i can get the outburst worse by trying to empathise.


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## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

Both now and when I was a little kid, I've felt that empathy works a lot better when it isn't immediately followed by "but..." Same thing for apologies. Give me a chance to appreciate your empathy or apology before you launch into the explanation! Also, I think the tone of voice is likely to sound more genuine if you give the empathy a whole sentence or more to itself.

What I find myself doing w/my son so far is explaining why he can't do something when I'm intervening, then empathizing when I'm consoling him about it. Example: "Do not pull on the power cord. (I pry the cord out of his fingers.) Power cords are not safe to pull on. They can get damaged and cause a fire. (I move the fan so that the cord is hidden behind it.) Here, play with this towel. (He drops the towel and lunges toward the side of the fan and tries to get behind it.) Oh, you just can't forget about that cord! (I pick him up and carry him away. He is leaning over waving his arms toward the fan.) You would really like to pull it! You like the way that cord feels in your hands. (He wails.) You're upset that I won't let you pull on the cord. It's very disappointing." I try to continue empathizing and offering distractions rather than justifying myself. It's hard to tell how well this works since he can't talk yet!







But being empathetic seems easier if I try to do it AFTER ending the unwanted behavior.


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