# playful parenting



## Denise K (Feb 26, 2002)

Anybody reading "Playful Parenting?" I am trying out some of the stuff from this book with ds (3.5) and loving it. But it's challenging. Wondering if there's anyone who wants to talk about it.


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## Suzannah (Nov 19, 2001)

I have read excerpts and I think it's a great concept.

It's often hard, though, to be a bear scampering into the mudhole when all I want DD to do is go take a d&mn bath...


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

Denise,

LOVE this book. It's my fav by far especially for this age group. It's made an immeasurable positive difference to my parenting, DH's parenting, our son's life and our family! It's a way of life! I'm actually RE-reading it right now. Brushing up you might say. DS has been going through a fearful time as of late (bedtime!) and as in the past, I'm finding role play an excellent way for him to work through some of these tough issues. We've also worked through hitting, tough times with playmates, concerns about particular outtings, etc. What I've found truly amazing is just how when I take time to really plop down, play and focus, DS often times really does bring up the things that he needs to work through. I have on occasion, taken the lead but usually it's not necessary.

DH has found wrestling a great vehicle for teaching boundaries and connecting. I'm a huge HUGE fan of f"ollowing the giggle!" The other day, I acted like a "dolt" while DS and I were playing with sporting equipment. DS has some confidence issues surrounding sports, but really wants to try them. My acting like a complete incompetent was reassuring and (ever so funny) to him. It also made the games so much fun that he didn't give up or bore of them nearly as quickly as he usually does....

On the same day, DS was telling me grand stories. Surprise surprise about all those scary monsters around! Just one after the other I listened in and DIDN'T try to make the stories end happy or discount them. I made comments about being scared myself, "OH MY GOSH, HOW DID YOU GET AWAY!?" DS in turn, came up with a number of ways to get away and how empowering that he had the answers inside of him! When a plane flew over the house and DS got that familiar panic look, it was *ME* who ran to the porch scared out of my mind and DS who ran after to comfort me.









That night, he fell asleep faster and slept better than he had in weeks!









So what are you working on?









The best,
Em


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## Denise K (Feb 26, 2002)

We play "Boss of the World," which is Glen's name for where I am extremely pompous and make up silly rules and then get bumblingly furious when he breaks them. He LOVES this game. I never would have done this--I assumed that it would just teach him to break rules. But it seems to be relieving some of the intense authority battles we have, and it makes me lighten up. Sometimes I do act like the boss of the world, I guess.... We laugh really hard.

I also play incompetent, usually when it's time to get dressed. "Is this (a sock) your hat? How does it go?" He loves getting dressed now, and I quit getting so Bossy about it.

I'm hoping playing can help DS with his fear of pooping.... The other day my hand (like a sock puppet) was terrified that it would have to smell wolverine poop.... I mean, totally silly. It seems like playing helps him relax and makes bathroom time more fun. His holding-it and fear is upsetting for me, too, so it helps to have something silly to do.

It seems like so far half the benefit of this book is in convincing ME that the world will not end if I (The Mom!) act silly, give up some control, and make fun of myself. Wow. It's so much more fun when I'm not afraid of the world ending all the time....

It's hard on my bummed and blue days. I just figure at least SOME of our days have a lot of laughing and play, and maybe that'll make up for the days I can't do it.


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## charmarty (Jan 27, 2002)

I am reading the book right now


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Denise K*
We play "Boss of the World," which is Glen's name for where I am extremely pompous and make up silly rules and then get bumblingly furious when he breaks them. He LOVES this game. I never would have done this--I assumed that it would just teach him to break rules. But it seems to be relieving some of the intense authority battles we have, and it makes me lighten up. Sometimes I do act like the boss of the world, I guess.... We laugh really hard.

This is a great idea and something I think DS would LOVE. We've played in reverse where we sit down to play and DS gets to boss me around. It occured to me however that it would probably be even more fun if I sometimes didn't cooperate in a loud, silly, bumbling sort of way. *making mental notes for next time*

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Denise K*
I also play incompetent, usually when it's time to get dressed. "Is this (a sock) your hat? How does it go?" He loves getting dressed now, and I quit getting so Bossy about it.

Dressing games have helped us too! Several nights a week, DS and I have the "Jammies Race" where we race to see who can undress and put jammies on first. I play the bumbling, trying real hard but too slow mom and DS gets to win. Jammies used to be a real issue for us and now, he can't wait!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Denise K*
I'm hoping playing can help DS with his fear of pooping.... It seems like playing helps him relax and makes bathroom time more fun.

Anything that relaxes a situation, makes it more fun? Good. Keep on it and I'll bet you'll see some real improvement!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Denise K*
It seems like so far half the benefit of this book is in convincing ME that the world will not end if I (The Mom!) act silly, give up some control, and make fun of myself. Wow. It's so much more fun when I'm not afraid of the world ending all the time....

Amen to that.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Denise K*
It's hard on my bummed and blue days. I just figure at least SOME of our days have a lot of laughing and play, and maybe that'll make up for the days I can't do it.

I've had the very same thought process. I'm much more forgiving of myself on those rough days than I used to be. And, because we've been making PP a way of life more or less, those rough days aren't nearly so rough as they used to be. All relative.

Ok, so we've been working on bedtime fear issues. Our PP game of the day has been to chase each other, trading turns being the monster/dinosaur/dragon. When I'm chasing him, I get close but then let him get away (while bumbling of course). I'm trying to help him learn that HE'S in charge of his imagination and no one else, monsters included.









Also, before bed each night, we've gotten into the habit of talking over possible scary scenarios. DS will bring up for instance: "what if the neighbors tree crashes into the house?" and I'll say something (VERY animated and silly of course) like, "Ok, Sidney's tree breaks off at the roots, crashes through our house, and lands on your bedroom floor. When you wake up there's a huge branch sticking up your nose and a pine cone in your ear. What do you do?" He's giggling away and coming up with all sorts of solutions right off... "I'd pull out the branch and stick it in Daddy's ear. And I'd keep the pine cone for my art projects."







Bottom line is that while he's still ending up on his floor bed in our room somewhere in the middle of the night, BEDTIME has changed considerably! He no longer fights it, seems much less afraid and falls asleep in minutes. I figure it's only a matter of time and more playing before the middle of the night stuff settles back to the old routine as well.









Happy playing. Always love hearing about other PP experiences. SHARE SHARE SHARE!

The best,
Em


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Hmm. I'd heard of this book before. Discounted it immediately. The very thought of acting silly with my kids gives me the *shivers*.







(Not entirely, but you know what I mean.) But you guys make it sound-- _fun_ almost!

Must investigate...


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## Denise K (Feb 26, 2002)

The sneaky voice at the back of my head says, "if you crack a smile, you're doomed as a mother." Or wife, for that matter..... what a ridiculous idea. Got it from my mom, bless her. I have to fight that feeling every day. PP helps becasue now I'm doing stuff like wrestling and roaring and falling down, which are not things you can do with dignity really. I'm stunned that it actually makes things easier--I assumed it was going to be one more parenting advice thing that would make my life harder for the sake of my child, but no. It makes life easier, and it helps me be happier and less uptight too.


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## shanleysmama (Mar 9, 2002)

I've been searching for a used copy of this book for a few months. Since I don't have it yet, I post excerpts from my Positive Parenting group on the fridge to remind me & DH to be gentle (DH is pro-spanking but I'm trying to get him to GD) and to give DH a few alternatives to spanking.
Lately he has actually playfully parented instead of lashing out and spanking when the kids have gotten a little rambunctious. The whole mood of the house changes to happy and silly and I breathe a big deep breath of relief (of course, I am also chanting a little loudly "patience, calm down, fill the love cup" to DH and that helps him keep his anger in check.


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## MSings (Jan 3, 2002)

I looked up this book on Amazon and there are two books with same title and different authors. Which one are people reading?
Thanks


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

MSings - It's the Cohen book.

shanleysmama - Here's a good price ($4.94) at half.com. Hope it helps.









http://half.ebay.com/cat/buy/prod.cg...1856&meta_id=1

Such a great thread! Embee and Denise K - thank you for sharing your experiences! They're great to read and get ideas from. I'm trying to be more playful (seems sort of oxymoronic, doesn't it? :LOL). We have so much stress in our lives right now and it really helps. Definitely difficult, though. I find when I remember that it helps me to tame my inner control freak which, of course, helps ds and I connect so much better.


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *journeymom*
Hmm. I'd heard of this book before. Discounted it immediately. The very thought of acting silly with my kids gives me the *shivers*.







(Not entirely, but you know what I mean.) But you guys make it sound-- _fun_ almost!

Must investigate...

Do! You won't be sorry. This book will change the way you think, act and _interact_ with your children. Denise put it soooo well: it really does make life so much easier. The more effort you put towards PP, the easier it gets, more and more rythym builds and it becomes a way of life. I'm incredibly grateful for having read this book. I have read many wonderful parenting books (Kids Are Worth It, How To Talk... etc.), but if I had to choose only one, this would be it. Truly. It's the one that stays OFF the bookshelf most of the time. Just picking up and reading a few paragraphs can change the whole course our day.

And I want to reiterate that it's not just a great way to relate to your kids (of course, laughter IS incredibly healing). With your help, connection and willingness to be playful, you can truly help them work through tough kid issues. Growing up is not easy as I remember all too well! Kids need someone to meet them where they live (in play!), and a parent is the very best person to do this IMO. PP, has been an absolutely invaluable book for DH and I. Anytime DS has an issue (hitting, social/friend, fears), we now look to PP before anything else. We look at it as trying to SOLVE from the inside out, rather than trying to control/stop the behavior from the outside in. KWIM? It works too well to consider anything else before it, and being that it's such a healing experience for DS? WIN/WIN

Ok, stepping off soapbox now. Sheesh, I think I've been waiting for a thread just like this to SPOUT about PP.














Thanks for the opportunity Denise.

The best to all,
Em


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

Oh, almost forgot DS's *working out the fears* PP moment of the day.

DS and I were cleaning this morning, moving large of pieces of heavy furniture, ya know... the usual.







Anyway, DS got a hold of a beautiful/scary mask (complete with horns) that belongs to DH. DS started wearing it around and pretending to be a monster as of course, this has been his/our MO lately. DS and I took turns being the monster, running around the couch, similar to my post from the other day.

Later in the game however, DH came in and was getting his turn to be the monster (and here's where a little parental guidance can be helpful in PP). DS and I have been talking a lot about how sometimes when people are grumpy/mean, it's usually quite possible that they are feeling sad inside. I suggested to DS while he was hiding behind my leg from monster/DH, that perhaps the monster was grumpy for some other reason than just being a monster. DS decided maybe he needed a hug and so he hugged DH/monster. We then took turns playing this game (over and over and over) with DS at the helm (of course): "Now YOU be the monster, mom!"







When I went to step out a few minutes ago, DS was concerned that he wouldn't have anyone to protect him from the monster if I left. I suggested that it was he who figured out a way to tame the monster all by himself (HUG), maybe it was "possible" that he didn't need me to protect this time. Afterall, he knows how to protect himself from this monster. He really thought about this and said, "Oh yeah!"

I'm waiting to see how many HOURS he spends in his room tonight before coming into ours. He's been sleeping better and better, each night a little longer in his own room and it's easy to see how good he's feeling about himself in general. Much more relaxed than just a couple of weeks ago and he hasn't fought bedtime in days now... HUGE relief for yours truly.

What never ceases to amaze me about PP, is that if I really take the time to tune into DS and his play, he ALWAYS seems to come up with his own ways of dealing with whatever issue is at hand. By just tuning in, and playing along (and for the most part, letting him take the lead), he seems to have a sense of what he needs to do (and what *I* need to do







) to work things out. The phrase, "we have a lot to learn from our kids" comes to mind a lot these days!

My ramble for the day. Thanks.

Em


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## Denise K (Feb 26, 2002)

Glad you did the soapbox thing, Embee--I tend that way, and it's good to know somebody else is THAT carried away about this book. Such usefulness is so rare....

After my miscarriage in November, I felt very disconnected from DS sometimes. Esp. through the 2 or 3 weeks of depression. Not being able to laugh with your child--when I read that line somewhere in PP, I saw myself a couple of weeks before. It's the saddest feeling. It was after the depression that I got this book, and I feel like PP is helping us rebuild our relationship. It's great that DS isn't screaming as much, or hitting me all the time, etc; it's better to know that it's in part because we are right with each other again. I feel so relieved, jsut having some guidance in finding that connection.


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

Denise

I'm so sorry for your loss. I've been there but it was before I had my son... the emotions of a miscarriage are not unlike any type of loss and I can only imagine how hard it must have been to try and stay connected while working through all of it. *sigh*

It is so reassuring to know that when DS and I get sliding on the skids (and we do indeed), that healing is just a "plop down on the floor away." Like I mentioned before, it helps me to not be so rough on myself for those days when my parenting is less than stellar. A good laugh can get us on the road to healing faster than anything else.

The best,

Em


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## MangoMamma (May 14, 2002)

I read the beginning of this thread and was so inspired I reserved the book from the library. I'm now on the chapter about wrestling. I'm really enjoying it. I always felt that I was pretty connected to my dd but I'm seeing how the playful parenting makes us have more fun and so far, less battles. I'm still a litte uncertain how to use it with my dd's fears: preschool, swimming and our battles to get dressed and go outside.


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## Denise K (Feb 26, 2002)

There's a whole chapter on fears, which you may not be at yet. But for us, I just keep playing with the idea of fear. DS is scared our house will catch on fire (bad side fo all those fire truck books), and sometimes can't sleep becasue he sees "sparks" when he closes his eyes. He got a brochure of construction tools that has a guy cutting pipe on the front --lots of sparks--and so I made the tiger we were drawing on newsprint be afraid of the sparks--it thought they would catch the house on fire. He loves this, and he keeps bringing out the picture again and saying slyly, "Tiger? are you still afriand of this picture?" and he'll explain about photographs and stuff while I tremble and wail. More drama makes more giggles. I have no idea how this is working in his psyche, but at the very least it's fun.


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

Denise - Fantastic idea for dealing with fire fears! DS loves the whole fire fighter scene as well and just today he drew a picture of our house being on fire. I know it's just one more step in him absorbing that the world can indeed be a scary place, but I'm hoping through PP, I can help him feel more empowered and not let fears run his life like they did for me as a child. I'm going to keep your idea on the ol' burner for when I need it. Something tells me it will be very soon. Thanks for sharing.

Your post brings up an important point, that indeed it really sometimes makes the best sense to hit things head on. I know as a parent and particularly before I read PP, I was afraid to "feed" DS any information about a fear or whatever it was that needed working through. I _knew_ better, but somehow got caught up in the thinking where by bringing it up at all, I was feeding it, rather than helping him cope and work through it (ACK! MY MOTHER!). My biggest enemy as a fearful child was that no one would take time to talk (much less play) with me about them. I got lots of "you're ok's" and "it will be fine's" from my mom, but this gave me nothing. I had one appointment with the child therapist at my grade school (I had gotten to the point where I was too afraid to go to school) and remember how much better I felt leaving his office. My whole life since then, I've been trying to figure out why drawing a picture of my family and playing a game called TOE TACK TICK made me feel so much better. Now I understand completely. Sad part is, my mom poo pooed the idea of me going in for more appointments as the therapist suggested. She only told me this a few years ago. I was so saddened, and was honest with her: "I really could have benefited from that Mom." *sigh* She knows that now, but back then... yada yada yada

But I digress...

Mangomama, as Dr. Cohen states in the book (if you haven't read it yet, you will







), If your child is afraid of something, play it! Afraid of preschool? Play it! Play the usual roles or reverse roles or even take on roles (or perhaps she will want to) of those you need to: preschool teacher or other kids in the class for example. Follow her lead for which role you each should take and switch it around when she wants to. For swimming, I'm not so sure exactly what you could do to create that environment IRL, but perhaps a big bowl of water, a couple of dolls that will do ok in water and see what your DD does? For getting dressed? We have found races to be HUGELY popular. We have more trouble with jammies here so when it's time, I run into my room yelling, "TIME FOR THE GREAT JAMMY RACE!" He can't resist and is practically falling over himself to get there to BEAT me. (Which he always does of course, because I play the bumbling dolt of a mom who can get her pants on.







)

However, since you mention preschool, it could be that an unwillingness to get dressed and out the door or directly related and by hopefully solving the preschool issue, you can solve all three. Also age (not sure what age your DD is). My DS at 3 1/2 was very difficult to get dressed and out the door, but now at 4, no problems. I usually ask who he is going to bring for the carride and he chooses and animal or train. Once we aren't focusing on him, he gets right in and is ready to go.









Best of luck to you!

Em


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## Denise K (Feb 26, 2002)

I've discovered a really neat thing about DS through playing. He's usually much rougher than I prefer in play--though, once we started wrestling, I remembered that I actually like that kind of thing. And he has done a lot of hitting and biting--I think of him sometimes as an aggressive wild kid....

Then we got a magazine that has a story about Hare tricking the Bad King Lion into leaping into the water hole and drowning (instead of eating hare). These folktales, they are so unsanitized







..... Well, DS had me read it 3 times in a row without stopping. Then he wanted to play it--I was supposed to be the lion. And he'd trick me into the hole--we had to do it exactly like in the story--and then stand there looking at me soberly while I lay there dead, and then want to play it all over. The 4th time or so, I lay there dead and asked, "are you concerned becasue the lion died?" he nodded. "Would it be better if the spirit of the lion was kinder and wiser than the alive lion, and came back to be with all the animals and help them?" He said "Yeah!" So I acted spirity and got up, and he ran over with a big grin and gave me a huge hug.

Which said something to me about him--that he likes this power and conflict play, but the reconciliation part is really important to him. He is always inviting me into his den after we wrestle over who gets to go in there, or helping me up after he laughs at me falling down chasing him. He gets in physical battles with his friends, and I've been trying to see a way to help them with the reconciling part--but it's hard when his buddy is crying and screaming for mommy's milk and won't look at him..... they're so little.... It's really neat for me to see this side of DS coming out in play-- and to think that maybe it can help him learn better social skills too.


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## MountainLovinMama (Mar 11, 2004)

Thanks for this thread. I had never heard of this book, but picked it up at my libe thanks to you mamas. Now I think I want to BUY my own copy because I suspect this might be a book I will want to return to again and again!


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## MangoMamma (May 14, 2002)

Thanks for the suggestions Embee and Denise. I understand what you are saying about fear Embee. I was the same as my 3 1/2 dd and I don't want those fears blocking her way. I know yelling" Just do it. Or "don't be so afraid" don't work. So I'll play the games.

I am having a hard time to figuring how to implement them though. Our preschool games seem to fall flat. I start them and they just don't go anywhere.


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## pickle it (May 16, 2004)

I first heard of this book about a month ago, on another thread. I ordered it the next day and have got a little more than half way.

This is a GREAT book!!!

Whining and arguing are way down. Getting things done is way up. Everyone gets along better. Two minutes of laughing and being silly really makes a huge difference.

I understand my child better. I used to think half of what she said was just basically nonsense. Now I see she was trying to tell me something, and I didn't hear it. I thing anyone who has a child or baby, and is not themselves a child psychologist, should get this book.


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

Mangomamma,

Hm, that's a tough one... when things fall flat. I'm having a similar issue right now trying to play out some social situations. I just can't seem to find the right vehicle. I've tried following his lead, but as Dr. Cohen suggests, sometimes if the issue is strong enough for the child, they will go to some length to avoid addressing it, including playing about it. If I could only think of a way to facilitate the right atmosphere to bring out the issue.

*think think think*

*still thinking...*









But seriously, sometimes it just takes time. The right play situation will present itself and you can jump in and follow along when the time is right. Our issue I mentioned above is about empowering DS in social situations. He's got a confidence issue that sometimes manifests itself in an aggressive way (aka, he turns into a clawing, roaring, angry dinosaur). Now, as playful parent, I both appreciate this and recognize what is going on however, for those not in the know, it's just plain aggressive and not likely to help him relate to others in a productive way... hm... any ideas anyone?

The best,
Em


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## jacksmama (Sep 19, 2003)

I'm sitting here reading this thread and I'm thinking back to when I was a little girl....can I even imagine how wonderful my life would have been if my parents had been silly even one day a month? You guys ROCK!














:









I had heard of this book here at MDC but really knew nothing except it was good. Now it sounds GREAT! Your kids are lucky to have mommies like you.







I can't wait to read it!


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## PM (Nov 19, 2001)

Embee,

I won't be able to get this book for a long time (acess probs), and I'm wondering if you could describe some of the things Cohen says about hitting. Thanks!


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## Denise K (Feb 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Embee*

empowering DS in social situations. He's got a confidence issue that sometimes manifests itself in an aggressive way (aka, he turns into a clawing, roaring, angry dinosaur). Now, as playful parent, I both appreciate this and recognize what is going on however, for those not in the know, it's just plain aggressive and not likely to help him relate to others in a productive way... hm... any ideas anyone?

The best,
Em

That's funny. That was my question. Today DS knocked over or grabbed and shoved his best friend four or 5 times while they were playing. I am trying to figure out how to play with this--we do talk about it, and do conflict management at the time..... One thing I do remember from the book is that kids benefit from being able to act out that aggressive rough stuff with parents, that it helps them figure it out--like wrestling, etc. So I can keep that up. Maybe we should wrestle before his friends come over. But I am wanting ideas too....


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

Denise, Hm, wrestling before friends come over sounds like something to try indeed. I am thinking perhaps just a maintainance dose of role play before play dates might be the answer. I've been trying to attack the situation in a general way, but perhaps I need to just be case specific. Tomorrow we have our regular weekly babysit/playdate with one of his fav pals. I'm planning to pretend I'm his pal earlier in the am and do some mock play scenes. They get along well for the most part, but his pal is a very strong personality and lately has gotten rather exclusive with me and I can tell it bothers DS, jealous and also a bit of the "left out syndrome."

Hi ParisMaman! Well, Dr. Cohen talks quite a bit in his book about aggression. He delves deep and what insights he has! I don't have the book on me right at present, but I will see if I can get some good excerpts/paraphrases sometime later in the week.

That said, we too have had our battles with hitting. We've had however mucho success with things like role play/drawing/puppet play in working through it. About a year ago, DS went through an intense hitting phase involving a friend's younger son (his playmates younger brother). He was being babysat at their house once a week. During all of this, I made extra time to sit down and play with DS and as Dr. Cohen suggests, let him take the lead. He was more than willing to show me that he too was trying to work through this. Everytime I sat down with him, the play would always turn to one object/character hitting the other be it trucks, trains, stuffed animals, puppets, whatever. I followed along... at the library one day we happened to be playing puppets. DS made up his very own game and even called it appropriately enough, "HIT BACK." I admit, this was early on and I wasn't feeling all that sure when he kept wanting me to hit his puppet back, but I went along (gently of course). Then, when I felt we'd covered that territory, I changed up and then starting talking my puppet more like, "I really don't like to be hit. I don't like hitting you. I like it when we play nice though." We went on like this. On and on... it seemed. Whenever we'd sit down to draw, he'd want me to draw someone hitting someone else, etc. Over a couple of weeks time, DS revealed to me through play that he was really working on boundaries more than anything else. In addition, he was feeling rather insecure at my friend's house and also feeling a little sibling rivalry towards his pal's younger brother (another thing he talks about in the book, that even only kids can experience sibling rivalry was hugely eye opening for me). The best part however is that after this couple of weeks, the hitting stopped. He went back to being very gentle with the younger chap, as he had always been in the past. *whew*

I think how a parent uses PP really depends upon the child's favorite mode of play. DS LOVES pretend and role play so in a way, I think he makes it rather easy for me. Today, we were having a ROUGH day, DS was tired, whiny and nothing was going his way much less a mom trying to get the chores done. Finally when I was washing the car and he was getting frustrated trying to help, I fixed him a snack, gave him an official supervisor chair which I placed on the porch, and told him he was the boss. He LOVED it. "Uh mommy, you missed a spot!" He would occasionally get up and hide behind the bushes during which time I'd "slack off on the job" and he'd get to suddenly reappear and reprimand me, "Go back to work!" He was laughing, I was laughing... laughing so very healing. He really needed to get some control and what better way than through playing the boss! (Thanks Denise!)

I'm rambling. I love this thread. It's keeping me "current" so to speak. I LOVE PP and I keep it on the shelf for reference, but it's easy to lose sight when you aren't reading up all the time, forget what you need to do, etc. This thread is helping me keep it fresh!

Thanks!

Em


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## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

been awhile since i've read this book, but i really liked it. i think i need to get my own copy and perhaps my own copy of spirited child.

the sibling rivalry comments were interesting. i think i could work through a lot of stuff with dd1 (just turned 4), but dd2 (14mo) is with us all day, too, and it's just rough. dd1 needs a lot of personal space and that includes from dd2 who just adores her and wants to be with her. dd1 will shove and push and kick her away and that just pushes my buttons and i start getting really mad since she's kicking my baby. she also does a lot of angry screeching in dd2's direction. dd2 isn't really old enough to understand that dd1 wants space, but she's old enough to get her feelings hurt when dd1 snatches a toy from her or kicks at her or knocks her down or screeches at her.

as for playing, dd1 llllooooooooovvves stories. she likes to take over when i start one, though, so i'm not sure i could get her to talk about pushing/kicking/screeching, but i guess i can try and keep an ear out for opportunities to bring it up. role playing she also tries to direct and gets mad if i say something that she doesn't want me to.

any suggestions for dealing with this?


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## MangoMamma (May 14, 2002)

I have to share. I've been trying to play "Preschool" with my dd and usually she just finds a way to nix it. Today she avoided playing it and played another game and then all of a sudden said, "OK lets play preschool." So we did. I was the daddy and she was the mommy, Winnie the Pooh and Rudolph were the children. Unfortunately, the door was locked and the"children" were sick so they had to go to the doctor instead. But we at least played it for a little while.


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## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

okay, on a more urgent note, i think i need to take dd1 to the pediatrician. she might have strep. she has an absolute phobia of the dr. i mean full on hysteria. what on earth can i do to ease this for her? she's even afraid of stories with drs in them. she loves "max and ruby" and there's one where they're playing dr with a toy drs kit and she won't go near it. it's bad...


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## Denise K (Feb 26, 2002)

Yikes, beanma.

Sometimes DS and I just play about fear in general. Like one morning my elbow was afraid of water. OK, that is very weird. Anyway, I am usually the scared one--or the character I am is--and he gets to be comforting, or challenging, or whatever he wants to be. He really likes these games, and they are so totally out of reality that I think it keeps him from being scared. Maybe you could create someplace that a character has to go and is scared of, but make it totally not the Dr. (Like my elbow was terrified to get in the shower.) Who knows.

And in general, I think it's OK to just do the game your dd1 wants to do--let her be the boss until she decides she wants to let you help with decisions. You may not be able to directly work on issues you're interested in, but she'll get lots of really good building-up from just playing with you. And maybe the stuff she wants to figure out is actually going to help, in some way you can't follow. Anyway, that's my theory. And the thing I love about PP is that even if it isn't fixing my problems, it's mostly fun (if demanding) and it seems reliably benign. Like, compared to sleep training or something, where you always wonder if you're harming your kid. OK, I do wonder regularly if I'm being a bad parent by not being meaner....like, do I have enough rules? Should I make him be more obedient? :LOL But my intuition and compassion have no qualms about this one.


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MangoMamma*
I have to share. I've been trying to play "Preschool" with my dd and usually she just finds a way to nix it. Today she avoided playing it and played another game and then all of a sudden said, "OK lets play preschool." So we did. I was the daddy and she was the mommy, Winnie the Pooh and Rudolph were the children. Unfortunately, the door was locked and the"children" were sick so they had to go to the doctor instead. But we at least played it for a little while.

Hey that's great... a start anyway, no? Good luck for future rounds of preschool fun!









Em


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Denise K*
Yikes, beanma.

Sometimes DS and I just play about fear in general. Like one morning my elbow was afraid of water. OK, that is very weird. Anyway, I am usually the scared one--or the character I am is--and he gets to be comforting, or challenging, or whatever he wants to be. He really likes these games, and they are so totally out of reality that I think it keeps him from being scared. Maybe you could create someplace that a character has to go and is scared of, but make it totally not the Dr. (Like my elbow was terrified to get in the shower.) Who knows.

And in general, I think it's OK to just do the game your dd1 wants to do--let her be the boss until she decides she wants to let you help with decisions. You may not be able to directly work on issues you're interested in, but she'll get lots of really good building-up from just playing with you. And maybe the stuff she wants to figure out is actually going to help, in some way you can't follow. Anyway, that's my theory. And the thing I love about PP is that even if it isn't fixing my problems, it's mostly fun (if demanding) and it seems reliably benign. Like, compared to sleep training or something, where you always wonder if you're harming your kid. OK, I do wonder regularly if I'm being a bad parent by not being meaner....like, do I have enough rules? Should I make him be more obedient? :LOL But my intuition and compassion have no qualms about this one.


What she said.
















Indeed, allowing DS to "take the lead" in play is the best way to work through anything. I'm not nearly so successful when I try to take charge. Sometimes it's hard to know exactly "how" to play along and I fail a few times before I get it right--do or say or act the way DS needs me to to understand how to work through whatever it is he might be working on at that moment. DS is a huge story teller also. I let him ramble and ramble! I ask questions and when he comes to a scary part, I act VERY scared, etc. I can't believe the complicated themes he comes up with and his ability to turn the story around for himself with just a few pointed questions and reactions from me.

Also, just wanted to second that reversing the roles is an excellent way for kids to giggle about fears and seeing you, the mom as the one in the position of fearful child is hugely helpful. *suspending reality--i.e., SAFE way to look at, and face fears* Whenever I act this way in play, DS is always the first one to step to my aid, puts him in a position of power rather than the reverse and helps him to see that he can come to his own aid as well.

Best of luck!


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## sistermama (May 6, 2003)

beanma - have you had her play being the doctor for you? My ds has to take nasty, disgusting tasting medicine three times a day and will have to until he is 12. We play a game all the time were he "gives" us medicine and we scream, cry and shout about how disgusting it is. Or maybe she could be the mommy telling you that you had to go to the doctor?

I'm really enjoying this thread - I've been a fan of the book for a while, but don't know anyone else who has read it. I also love the book "Easy to Love, Difficult to Discipline" (although I DESPISE the title - the book isn't at all what the title makes it sound like). It meshes really well with Playful Parenting and I kind of make a combined approach of the two. Those two books never make it onto the bookshelf, I leave them out and pick them up several times during the week. Sorry, I didn't mean to take us off of the Playful topic, but just thought I would mention it in case anyone else was looking for another good book!

As far as games falling flat, following the laugh has really worked the best for me. IME, if a game isn't working, I'm not being silly or ridiculous enough and I usually just need to ramp it up a notch.


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Denise K*
And in general, I think it's OK to just do the game your dd1 wants to do--let her be the boss until she decides she wants to let you help with decisions. You may not be able to directly work on issues you're interested in, but she'll get lots of really good building-up from just playing with you.

Just wanted to reiterate on this one. An excellent point! Sometimes when things are tough and DS is challenging, I know that at the very least, he really needs his "cup filled" as Dr. Cohen says. I sort of divide PP into two parts: 1) Maintainence and 2) Issues. By just making time everyday to sit down with DS, allow myself to be interrupted instead of being hell bent on getting the dishes done RIGHT NOW, I fill his cup. When he's getting the attention he needs, there are usually little or no behavior issues to work out, period. Maintainence. Let me add however (BEANMA







), I can't imagine however that trying to do this with two kids is at all easy though and being a parent of an only, I don't have room to advise. As for issues, these are things that I will facilitate sometimes, but usually I do look for an opening or a playful way enter in. For instance, with bedtime fears I got an idea when DS and I were already playing in his room one day to just jump in his bed and say I was going to bed now! Then, I started whining and fussing about all my these crazy, scary thoughts I was having and how I couldn't possibly go to sleep, etc. DS jumped right in and pretended to be me and then after a while, he wanted to switch and this went on for awhile until he decided for himself that he wanted to play library... another issue we'd had recently! All in all, I find it's key if I'm going to facilitate anything, I've got to connect with DS first, by playing with him, his rules, whatever and then when I introduce something make darned sure that it's something that initially at least, will get a HUGE giggle!

I'm rambling again and oh I needed this thread today! ROUGH day to say the least. Some particularly bad mommy moments... foggy head = less than stellar parenting.







:


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## Losgann (Jun 24, 2004)

and it's an absolute must to get my dd 4 1/2 out of bed and going in the mornings.

Just this morning she refused to put on her shoes, so I tried to 'catch' her foot. When I 'couldn't' catch her foot I put the shoe on her hand, on her knee, on her head.. Finally she let me put one shoe on and I really played it up with a "bwa ha ha ha ha! I havz caught zee foot!" and telling her "It's in the cage! It can't escape now!!" as I fastened the velcro. Then we started over with the other one.. It takes 10-15 minutes longer but we have a blast. I can't stay peeved at her when she's giggling up a storm!

It's been a while since I've read it, I really want to pull it out again!


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## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

thanks y'all for the advice. we've ended up not taking dd1 to the dr today. i talked to him on the phone and he said we could watch and wait so that's what we're going to do. i still need to address the issue for the future, but we're not in crisis mode on it any more.

interestingly enough, i tried the role reversal last night pretending to be scared of the noises of daddy cleaning up in the kitchen and she didn't like it at all. i even pretended when we could see daddy that he was a big furry monster (beard and all), but she would have none of it. might have just been bad timing, though. i'll try that again 'cause i think she does need to feel empowered about some of her fears. she will also deny being scared/sick/etc because she doesn't want to be. she's fine at letting angry out, though. :LOL

thanks again!


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sistermama*
I'm really enjoying this thread - I've been a fan of the book for a while, but don't know anyone else who has read it. I also love the book "Easy to Love, Difficult to Discipline" (although I DESPISE the title - the book isn't at all what the title makes it sound like). It meshes really well with Playful Parenting and I kind of make a combined approach of the two. Those two books never make it onto the bookshelf, I leave them out and pick them up several times during the week. Sorry, I didn't mean to take us off of the Playful topic, but just thought I would mention it in case anyone else was looking for another good book!

Thanks! I'm actually glad you mentioned what you did about the book. I admit, I heard good things about it, but was turned off by the title. Think I might just have to check it out. And no worries about the suggestion... I have a "final four" of parenting books and while PP is my fav for this age (and is rarely on the shelf), people are also bound to find my copy of Kids, Parents, and Power Struggles and Kids Are Worth It laying out as well. Whenever DS and I are having a tough time, I always reread the chapters on empathy and stress in the power struggles book. Brings me back in a hurry! And the of course, I sit right down, focus and starting playing!


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

THREE CHEERS TO PP!

The thread has been quiet, but I just wanted to say that we're making headway in the social department. I've really felt for awhile now that DS is lacking confidence socially. Some of it's his nature, he likes to play alone, but I can SENSE that he wants to play with others too, but gives up when things don't go well from the start. *sigh*

Today, we had a playdate and I really wanted it to go well for DS. Really wanted him to get some positive associations going there. So... we played PLAYDATE before we left for the park to meet our friends. Our last meeting didn't go all that well and I could tell DS felt bad and frustrated so we sort of played out some stuff that happened (arguing over a toy, other little boy sweet, but tends to get into DS's face a lot, wants to direct all the time, etc.) We just played a few scenes and then we did some scenes where DS just got to call all the shots and Voila! Playdate went great! They had their squabbles, but with a tiny help from me, they were able to connect, play and have a good time together. DS has been amazingly easy going, happy, independent and full of life the whole day. A little confidence goes a long LONG way!

Just had to share. It's such a load off! Now, if we can make the same thing happen for our babysit/playdate tomorrow. This one is tougher. We'll have to see.

THANK YOU PLAYFUL PARENTING!


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## MangoMamma (May 14, 2002)

Embee, thanks for sharing. That was so inspiring. My dd 3.5 yr has similar issues. I'm so happy to hear that PP can make such a difference in the social arena.


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## Denise K (Feb 26, 2002)

PP is helping me just get DS out the door for playdates. He'll say "I don't want to go to K's. I don't want to fight." Which they do....it doesn't seem to make it easier for him that he's the one who usually does the physical attacking.

So I say "I'm K. Hi!" which he loves, and we fight over playdough a little bit, and then he just wants me to play with him (This way he can get me to play trucks







) , and then it's time to go and he just goes. They are still having a lot of conflicts that upset them both--same with his other buddy--but at least he's willing to keep trying. I'm wanting to play with him about hitting--his other buddy has added punches to her repertoire, tho DS has moved on from whacking to tackling and shoving--but am scared of losing control and the world ending, I htink







....maybe I will relax soon and be able to work on that with him.

Does anyone have a thought about PP approaches to "I hate you Papa, go away, you are so bad!" ---DS likes DH much of the time, but if he's tired or especially if he's upset he just gets unbelievably hostile.


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## shanleysmama (Mar 9, 2002)

Checked it out of the library and I love it! I've even got DH reading some of it. It makes sooo much sense.


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Denise K*
Does anyone have a thought about PP approaches to "I hate you Papa, go away, you are so bad!" ---DS likes DH much of the time, but if he's tired or especially if he's upset he just gets unbelievably hostile.

Oh Denise, this can be soooo tough. My first thought was to do some sort of role play where your DS can try on the role of Dad? Not sure how that would work. My other thought was something that came to me over the weekend. When my DS is feeling insecure in an environment (like, when he wants to join in badly but doesn't quite know how and MOMS not helping much because she's dealing with her own social phobias














, he will very often become quite hostile. Not in a physical way, but by giving a really grumpy face to everyone he comes into contact with... I admit, at times it's a little embarrassing and off putting to those he really wants to connect with. *sigh* We were in the city the other day and a huge park with TONS of kids. Nothing like here at our small town home. DS was giving the face all about and when we got to the swing he was STILL grousing. Finally I started looking at him with my grumpiest (read SILLY) face I could think of. I think I said something like, "I'm GRUMPY! LOOK AT MY GRUMPY FACE!" DS could NOT stop smiling and laughing, he thought it was sooooo funny. I remembered then about when Dr. Cohen talks about immitating being very helpful in some circumstances as long as it's not mocking and how the giggle can change the tone. It really helped and our rest of the time at the park was more happy and relaxed.

I wonder if your DH couldn't playfully counter back to your DS in a MOCK grumpy way, just play the part of the total little kid, "Well fine then! I'll just build with blocks by MYYYYYself!" and then do so and see if DS doesn't just join in. Sometimes instead of trying to break into our play, my DH will simply start playing something and DS will usually happily join in. Or perhaps, "No *I* want to play with Mommy!" in sort of a whiny silly way and then perhaps a mock tug-o-war scenario? It sounds as if they might just need a key to connecting. Remember when Dr. Cohen talked about his wife being the one who worked away from home all day and they needed to do something (I can't remember what it was), to help she and Emma connect when she got home so that she could accept mom back into play and heal from being away from her all day?

Anyway, my RAMBLING .02 for what it's worth!

The best,
Em


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## shanleysmama (Mar 9, 2002)

I just read that part about the wife. He would say "who's holding you?" to his DD. Sometimes the DD would cry but she was just letting out frustration at missing her mom.

On the "I hate you" thing - I just read where he says that kids will lash out to cover up feelings of missing the parent, being lonely, and wanting the person (parent) to play longer. Cohen said he will be leaving a session, and the child will call him a name, and he'll turn it into a game "shhh, don't tell anyone Stinky is my secret name and only my closest friends know that". It's not that the child is being rude by lashing out or namecalling, but that they want him to stay longer and aren't ready to let go right then. Maybe that is it with your DS and your DH? Maybe your DS is feeling bad (i.e., tired) so he labels his daddy as such.


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## Denise K (Feb 26, 2002)

Thanks for your thoughts.

I'm thinking about why DS does this thing with DH. Sometimes it's when DS is needing to cry or crying, and he can't stand for anyone but me to be near him when he's crying (unless I'm not there, and then DH is fine). Or when he's in the bathroom and DH comes down the hall--it's just an extreme way to demand privacy, either way.

Other times I think it's a rivalry thing--he doens't want anybody else around who I might talk to. (He doesn't know that this is a recipe for maternal insanity....) He yells at Grandma sometimes too, for htis reason. Maybe I should look at the sibling rivalry stuff again, and see if any of that applies. Unfortuantely I had PP from the library--then I told all my friends about it before I took it back, so I'll never see that copy again....









I'll talk with DH too about ways to respond in a playful way--when DS isn't crying, of course. Maybe that would help. It certainly isn't changing anything to lecture DS about mean words and kindness and all that.


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## SRHS (Jan 9, 2003)

Just started...on chapter 3...but like most of you it has already had an impact..mostly on my perception, not as much on my behavior...YET...workiing on it!!!

Looking forward to more!!!
Susan


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## Mary-Beth (Nov 20, 2001)

I read this book a while back- maybe a year ago? I let a friend borrow it and need to get it back as I have all new questions and concerns now.

Out two biggest issues right now are...
My dd is not wanting to go to bed at night now and she wakes several times a night 3-4x a week now. I'm trying to figure this out....and how to be supportive and effective at helping her to sleep soundly again.
My dd is almost 3 years old and she seems to be outgrowing her nap- sort of. If she naps at all then she fights bedtime and is awake until 9-10pm if she doesn't nap she gets very cranky (VERY CRANKY!) by 4-5pm and usually goes to bed easily at her usual bedtime or a little bit earlier. Sometimes she still struggles at bedtime either way. I've tried playing the bedtime games with dolls and she's put me to bed, etc.

And, my dd isn't eating her dinner like she used to. She asks for something takes two bites, wants someting else but doesn't finish that either. It's not working for me becasue I make this food and don't want to waste it. Also, I'm tired, hungry, etc and need to eat too. I don't want to have these control issues around food so I basically draw the line with the choices and then let her decide if she'll eat or not...
but then at bedtime she's "I'm starving Mommy" and we're into the bedtime stalling techniques....


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## Denise K (Feb 26, 2002)

Oooh, I hear you. That sounds exactly like DS, who is 3.5, on all counts. The transition out of napping is SO HARD. We've been struggling with it for months now, and tho he never naps any more, he still gets crazy at 4 or 5. 13 hours is just too long for him to stay awake.... I assume this will get better eventually. Or anyway, he'll move out and get his own place one of these days.









On the food thing..... I am with you on setting out the meal and then letting dc decide about eating. the more we've tried to make ds eat (he's been skinny all along, and sometimes hardly eats at all), the more stressed we've all gotten, without him eating more. If ds doesn't like the food but seems hungry, I might offer him some leftovers from an earlier meal instead. But usually he's just too busy to eat.

My best solution is to give him a snack at bedtime--he can't sleep well if he hasn't eaten enough (could this be your dd's problem?). It's a different meal, is how I think of it--this is the bedtime snack, and each meal gets a blank slate. I don't worry about whether he ate supper at that point. Usually a banana or yogurt, sometimes in the bathtub







--nothing hard to fix, and I don't give him choices at that point, just hand it to him and he is hungry enough to eat by then. I don't think it reinforces him not eating supper ( I could be wrong)--it just provides him with extra calories to survive till morning.. This is not stuff out of PP, it's just my experience.

Here is a PP type trick I use though, when I REALLY need for ds to eat (he's been fasting for 5 hours and we're getting ready to go to a playdate, for instance): I take a slice of bread, and put PB and honey on it, then put it on DS's plate and give him the ingred. to build a birthday cake out of it--carob pwd, banana slices, coconut, etc. He makes it all fancy, and I put a banana candle on it, and we pretend to light it and sing, blow out candle, cut cake, eat. He will almost always eat if I do this with him. This is really time consuming but there are moments when it's worth it to me, and we have so much fun doing it. If DS is really not eating sometimes I will do this late afternoon, and then I don't have to worry about him eating dinner. This reqires giving up some strong traditions--but I found the traditions were'nt helping me any.

Sorry for rambling. These trials are near and dear to my heart.... hang in there.


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## chrissy (Jun 5, 2002)

just checked this book out of our lll library today.


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## sistermama (May 6, 2003)

OT kind of - for the not eating dinner, is she eating an afternoon snack? If my ds has an afternoon snack he really isn't interested in eating dinner. I've found that he really doesn't need snacks during the day anymore. Also, is she drinking juice during the day? Ds would live off of juice if he had the option.

Chrissy - I think you will love the book (Noah will too!)


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mary-Beth*
Out two biggest issues right now are...
My dd is not wanting to go to bed at night now and she wakes several times a night 3-4x a week now. I'm trying to figure this out....and how to be supportive and effective at helping her to sleep soundly again.
My dd is almost 3 years old and she seems to be outgrowing her nap- sort of. If she naps at all then she fights bedtime and is awake until 9-10pm if she doesn't nap she gets very cranky (VERY CRANKY!) by 4-5pm and usually goes to bed easily at her usual bedtime or a little bit earlier. Sometimes she still struggles at bedtime either way. I've tried playing the bedtime games with dolls and she's put me to bed, etc.

Mary-Beth (Hey! That's MY name, without the hyphen.







). But more to the point...

Nap transitions are hard. When this was happening with us (DS was not quite 3 I think), we finally just dropped the nap once and for all. It was cranky in the evenings but only temporarily and then he got used to the new routine and wow, bedtime got MUCH easier all around. During the transition time, I went ahead and put him to bed earlier than usual (6-6:30ish if necessary) because if he got too overtired, bedtime was rought and sleep was restless. Gradually as the evenings got mellower, bedtime moved to about 7-7:30 and there it remains at age 4.

If you think it's more than the nap/no nap thing however, I suggest going ALL OUT of the role reversal you described above where she puts you to sleep. I've had so much success with going over the top. If you read earlier in this thread, you'll see we've been having bedtime/nighttime issues as well. Hang in there. Here's a quick recap of an idea or two:

One day while playing in DS's room, I got this idea out of the blue to just jump into his bed and start WHHHHHIIIINNNNING about going to sleep. I had all sorts of reasons as to why I couldn't possibly go to sleep and I kept referring to DS as "Mommy" and he accepted the role happily amidst MANY giggles. He was actually AMAZINGLY patient with me (more than I am with him I'm certain!). We're still working on the nighttime wakings but bedtime has changed dramatically since this day. After we played out this little scenario, we sat down together and started brainstorming ways to change the bedtime routine that will help him fall asleep more easily. He now had some control over the HOWS of bedtime, and together we made a workable plan. Also, by having "suspended reality by reversing our roles," I think it helped worked through some things he needed to work through and took the pressure and tension off bedtime overall.

I could go on and on... there is more info at the beginning of the thread if you want more. Hang in there and I hope things get better soon.

Em


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

Good Morning PPers!

So lately, I've been trying to make a habit of grabbing PP off the shelf in the morning while drinking my coffee. I just read an excerpt here, an excerpt there. I've taken to highlighting some of my favs that help me get and stay on track for the day. You know how you can read a great parenting book and it feels so empowering at the time, but then when it comes time to access it, it feels like you've lost all the entered data? That's me. So here's my qoute for the day...

_"Play is children's main way of communicating. To stop a child from playing is like stopping an adult from talking and thinking. To control every minute of their play is like controlling every word someone says. But to leave children all alone in their play is like spending the day with other adults and never talking with them."_ -- Dr. Lawrence J. Cohen, author of _Playful Parenting_

DS has a decent ability to entertain himself, and I often find myself taking this ability for granted. The other day, he was doing so before we had some friends coming over and I took the opportunity to clean up the house before they arrived. I KNOW that DS needs to play with me BEFORE he has a friend over. It really helps him feel confident and relaxed, but NOOOOOOOOOOO I insisted upon giving into my OCD nature! By the time our friends arrived, DS was no longer so happy and his "cup" was bone dry. PARCHED! The playdate was disasterous. His playmate whom he usually ADORES playing with was doing all the things that drive him crazy (basically ignoring what he was trying to play, taking apart his "scene" and being extremely in his face and physical). With the proper "play prep" I could have helped DS deal effectively with this situation, but he had no prep. By the time they left, DS was unreachable and his playmate was also pretty out of control (screaming, run around, escaping her mom trying to gently get her to the car).

I'm not sure why I needed to share this, but it's really been bothering me (I'm so angry with myself!) and I thought maybe this was a good forum to "release" my thoughts on the matter. One playdate, not a disaster, and I learned something (again














. Needless to say, this was day when I didn't bother to read PP in the am. *sigh* Next time, I can make a better choice! Right?









The best,
Em


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## MangoMamma (May 14, 2002)

I am near the end of the book, but I still don't understand what I can do for a child who is clingy. For those who have read the book do you have any ideas of what I can do. I am starting to lose my patience and I see myself doing things that are not positive at all. I'm exhausted and tapped out, she needs me even more.


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## Denise K (Feb 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MangoMamma*
... what I can do for a child who is clingy. For those who have read the book do you have any ideas of what I can do. I am starting to lose my patience and I see myself doing things that are not positive at all. I'm exhausted and tapped out, she needs me even more.

Thoughts: Probably a PP approach would be to work on "filling her cup" by doing different, playful stuff with her--playing her own things, physical play...--with the idea that you're giving her what she needs to be able to pull away from you and feel secure doing it. If there's a time of day or activity with DS that tends to be particularly hard (clinginess is not our problem, but it may apply), I try to play with him before that time. (Sometimes....)

Another thought I had--if you have a friend or relative who could read PP or get the gist from you, and then come over to visit and play with her. Giving you a break, but also maybe offering her a way to fill her cup with somebody else and maybe get different things than she gets from you.

On being burned out... that makes everything harder, doesn't it? My version of it is just plain tiredness, and the desire to be ALONE. I can say that wrestling with ds is great for this. Not as great as being alone, maybe--but it recharges my batteries as well as his. We wrestle silly, and laugh, and it gets us both in a better space. Or any other really loud and wild play. (Even knowing this, it is very hard for me to consider doing that stuff when I'm tired and burned out, every time....)
Good luck.


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Denise K*
On being burned out... that makes everything harder, doesn't it? My version of it is just plain tiredness, and the desire to be ALONE. I can say that wrestling with ds is great for this. Not as great as being alone, maybe--but it recharges my batteries as well as his. We wrestle silly, and laugh, and it gets us both in a better space. Or any other really loud and wild play. (Even knowing this, it is very hard for me to consider doing that stuff when I'm tired and burned out, every time....)
Good luck.

This totally speaks to me. Even when I KNOW that doing these things will actually help us both, it's still hard to muster the energy (both physical and emotional) to jump in and play. I'm getting better at just doing it no matter how hard it is though because the inevitable positive result is building a positive association in my brain I think!









Em


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## Denise K (Feb 26, 2002)

Hint: Do not refuse to play as a consequence for obnoxious behavior.

Earlier this week I told DS I'd play Rompus Walrus with him as soon as I was done sweeping the floor. For some reason he can't leave me alone while I sweep--I thought this might help him wait. So he ended up rolling around in the dirt pile, spreading dust all over the kitchen and getting coated with it. Understandably I huffed and puffed, and said Now I will NOT play rompus walrus, becasue I can't get the floor clean like I need to before I go play.








So then the rest of the day was crazier and crazier, becasue we really needed some wrestling and hadn't done it in days.... I think this is called shooting yourself in the foot. A better plan: wrestle first next time, and see if then he can let me sweep in peace once he's gotten his cup filled. If not....velcro him to the wall?









Oh no, not another learning experience.....


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## charmarty (Jan 27, 2002)

sooo i got a bit through the book and thought..gee? what is the big fuss about????? I am not seeing it here.

TEHN i realized it was the wrong Author!









I have the RIGHT book now and am slowly plowing throught it.
We are really facing some challenges here and I am looking forward to applying the info in the book to us.


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## Maggie Mae (Sep 14, 2004)

Just wanted to pop in and say a big THANK YOU to all of you posting on this thread!!!























DD has been through transition after transition after transition over the past 2 years and thanks to PP I feel like I've finally got my kid back. And I wouldn't have ever found the book if I hadn't stumbled on this thread. You all are wonderful!









I'll have to read through the more recent posts when I have more time, and jump in with news from our house, but I just wanted to say hi for now, and thank you guys for putting PP on my radar screen!


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## sphinx (Mar 13, 2003)

Okay this is going to sound stupid, but I think i need help with this. I'm reading and absolutely loving this book, and want so much to implement it with my very angry and sad 5 1/2 year old... but it's not working! Maybe I don't take the play in the right direction, or something. I can't pinpoint exactly how/why I'm failing at it, but it's like, it's hard to think of what to say or do, and dd doesn't really laugh and get the energy out, she kind of just half smiles or goes along with it, but her anger still remains.

For instance: yesterday she got upset because her friend had to go home, and she blamed it on me and hit me and called me stupid. I told her she could pretend to hit and kick me, but not do it for real. I held my hands out so she could punch them and she did that for awhile but it didn't seem satisfying for her. So then I had her and her friend pretend to stomp my feet and I was dramatically screaming owww and pretending to cry. The friend laughed but my dd didn't - and she really wanted to stomp and hurt me. She was air-kicking me and I kept saying "thanks! I love you too!" (not being sarcastic - but maybe she thought I was being?) and trying to give her hugs which she vehemently rejected. Dd hits and kicks and screams horrible things at me on a daily basis and I've been trying to find some ground for negotiation for months now - i really think the playful concept could be the way out of this cycle we're in. After the friend left, I asked dd what would help her when she feels angry like that - her answer was "if you would let me hit, kick, pinch and punch you!" I said well you can't do it for real, but let's pretend. I said we can do the kicking dance, or I can hold a pillow right in front of me and you can punch & kick it. She screamed "No! That is not good enough! I want to really do it!" And walked away and sulked.

What would you do?


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## Pagan_princess (Jul 17, 2004)

Ok, I must be totally out of the loop, because I have never heard of it. Does anyone know if Barnes & Noble would have it?


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## ramona_quimby (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Denise K*
That's funny. That was my question. Today DS knocked over or grabbed and shoved his best friend four or 5 times while they were playing. I am trying to figure out how to play with this--we do talk about it, and do conflict management at the time..... One thing I do remember from the book is that kids benefit from being able to act out that aggressive rough stuff with parents, that it helps them figure it out--like wrestling, etc. So I can keep that up. Maybe we should wrestle before his friends come over. But I am wanting ideas too....


This is an issue with us, too (ds is 3 1/2). He shouts and yells at anybody who comes near me to say hello or starts up a conversation with me. It is stressing me out, along with his myriad fears and his unhappiness at preschool.... Anyways, reading along here, I just realized that maybe one of his favorite games lately is actually helping him work out some of this stuff (but I don't understand how it could work it ALL out...):

He comes running toward me on the bed and I surprise him by pushing him backwards onto a stack of pillows. I shove him pretty hard, actually, and he goes "poof" onto the pillows, cracking up, I mean completely cracking up. I always surprise him with WHEN I do the shove, sometimes right away, sometimes I wait until right before he runs into me. He loves it.

Sigh...but I am just overwhelmed by his well of emotions lately...so much is going on in his life - new baby, preschool fears, monster fears, being-alone-in-a-room fears, my husband travels a lot, refusal to do anything himself or believe he can do anything himself - I just don't know where to begin helping him heal. He is getting more and more angry and isolated. I've got to get into the silly play again b/c it has worked before - thanks for the inspiration here.


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## Mary-Beth (Nov 20, 2001)

Hey everyone,
I love hearing all the questions and comments being passed around here. It helps give me ideas!

Thank you to both Denise K and Embee for responding to my bedtime/naptime challenges. My dd still loves to play that she's putting me to bed and she's so patient with me. As for our other "issue" I've pretty much decided to completely disengage from food struggles. I put food on her plate and she can eat or not. I don't say anything prompting her to eat. It just seemed to fuel her resistance. I am concerned about her vegetable intake though. But when we pretend to cook and eat she always suggests wonderful dinners. If I pretend not to like it she'll just keep making me something else.

When I play 1-1, I mostly just try to join her activities and usually don't try to work on anything. That alone is so helpful!


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *charmarty*
sooo i got a bit through the book and thought..gee? what is the big fuss about????? I am not seeing it here.

TEHN i realized it was the wrong Author!









I have the RIGHT book now and am slowly plowing throught it.
We are really facing some challenges here and I am looking forward to applying the info in the book to us.

I was curious about this "other" Playful Parenting and so ordered it for a few cents. Um, well... not really my bag baby.







Two very different books, indeed. Glad you found the right one. Happy reading!


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sphinx*
Okay this is going to sound stupid, but I think i need help with this. I'm reading and absolutely loving this book, and want so much to implement it with my very angry and sad 5 1/2 year old... but it's not working! Maybe I don't take the play in the right direction, or something. I can't pinpoint exactly how/why I'm failing at it, but it's like, it's hard to think of what to say or do, and dd doesn't really laugh and get the energy out, she kind of just half smiles or goes along with it, but her anger still remains.

For instance: yesterday she got upset because her friend had to go home, and she blamed it on me and hit me and called me stupid. I told her she could pretend to hit and kick me, but not do it for real. I held my hands out so she could punch them and she did that for awhile but it didn't seem satisfying for her. So then I had her and her friend pretend to stomp my feet and I was dramatically screaming owww and pretending to cry. The friend laughed but my dd didn't - and she really wanted to stomp and hurt me. She was air-kicking me and I kept saying "thanks! I love you too!" (not being sarcastic - but maybe she thought I was being?) and trying to give her hugs which she vehemently rejected. Dd hits and kicks and screams horrible things at me on a daily basis and I've been trying to find some ground for negotiation for months now - i really think the playful concept could be the way out of this cycle we're in. After the friend left, I asked dd what would help her when she feels angry like that - her answer was "if you would let me hit, kick, pinch and punch you!" I said well you can't do it for real, but let's pretend. I said we can do the kicking dance, or I can hold a pillow right in front of me and you can punch & kick it. She screamed "No! That is not good enough! I want to really do it!" And walked away and sulked.

What would you do?


Dr. Cohen would say that these kinds of things are a simple (or not so simple) lack of connection between parents and child. Indeed, you're right on to understand that your DD needs an outlet, but she may be too young to be able to grasp such an outright question. I'm not sure how this might work for you, but my only advice is to simply sit down and play... stop everything, focus on her, play what she wants to play and play it up as best you can. Follow her lead, see where she takes you. If it's into the world of pretend, pretend along with her, be what she wants you to be... kids are amazing at knowing where they need to go to work something through. They need us to be tuned in to now only see it, but to play along.

I wonder rather than asking her point blank what she needs (she may not be able to articulate it and the question alone could be confusing and scary), make a point to join her in play after her friend goes home. She won't be as sad for her friend leaving if she knows mom is ready to play for a spell afterward... a transition if you will. My DS often times seeks out recconection with me after a friend leaves.

I wish I had more time. Perhaps if you could give me some hints as to the kind of play your DD likes, I can help you find ways to join in with her. And don't worry! This does get easier once you get the hang of how to join in. It's not easy at first, and even now I've been doing this awhile and I have awful days where I can't find the formula... chances are I'd just do better to let him boss me around *KINGLY STYLE* as we call it. Whenever DS needs some power in his life, this is the game we play. It's OH SO HELPFUL!

The best,
Em


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## GoldBerry (Oct 4, 2004)

My Dd loves physical, rough play and it's not my thing. Through Playful Parenting, we found "The Unmoveable Wall". It's saved my butt many times since the baby was born. It works for us!


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## sphinx (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Embee*
Dr. Cohen would say that these kinds of things are a simple (or not so simple) lack of connection between parents and child.

thank you for your views on this - well at the risk of getting verrrry long winded here, i'll just outline my dd's past year - moved to a different country, to a big city to a flat on a busy dirty street - complete opposite to the old house with yard in small town, got a new baby brother, parents relationship stressed, just now starting to make friends after a year here - etc etc. She went from being a happy bright eyed fairy to a very somber and sad 5 year old in this year of so may transitions. So yes, I think there are definitely some attachment issues going on, which I have been trying to deal with by keeping her home (preschool is free here and everyone thinks I'm crazy to send her just 2x a week instead of 5x) and really trying to focus on her. We dance and read a lot, which we both enjoy, but her real passion is playing barbies which i hate and it's probably quite obvious, but i do it. She's also into role playing and I always submit to whatever she wants to play, as Cohen instructs. In a lot of her solitary play there is a great deal of anger and violence. But when I join her in play she tends to make it G-rated for me. I'm having a hard time trying to find the door to get into the depths with her. Not to mention I'm really exhausted with a baby who cries a lot and naps very sparingly, etc. Dd and I are still very attached but this gap in connection is definitely palpable.

My dh was asking me, why does dd freak out with me (like, all day long) but not him? I thought maybe it was because she trusts me more than him and is able to share her emotions better. [This is definitely partly true, esp as he has problems accepting her displays of emotion, so she is much more guarded.] But another reason, I just recently realized, is that he PLAYS with her and gets really goofy. They can play for hours. I think she can let out her frustration in this way with him and it doesn't build up as it does with me. I am always stuck being "mama" and I don't get this outlet. I have to create it and it's been very challenging.

Must go to bed. Thanks again. I will keep trying!


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## sphinx (Mar 13, 2003)

Dd is usually very articulate and can often pinpoint exactly what she needs. Though I agree that sometimes that question is not helpful and deeper observation is the only thing that can tell me. However her latest answer to everything is "i don't know" or "I won't tell you" and/or a frustrated sigh and eye-rolling...


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## CurlyTop (Jun 18, 2003)

Hi! I'm on my second reading of PP and have been so stumped I actually emailed Larry Cohen for advice. He replied in such a kind, generous way that I'm even more a fan. My problem was that trying to be playful was making me literally shake in my boots. I figured that a big part of my anxiety was due to my own childhood at exactly my kids' age (almost 3 year old twins). When I was 2.5 my dad took me from my mom, sister, and brother and didn't let me see them again for almost 6 years; he stashed me away with some people he knew in town and saw me only on weekends while he worked 2 hours away. Several months later he married my step mom and I had a "new" family. My life was so upside down that I literally couldn't play. So today, I see my girls and am deeply, almost subconsciously, reminded of the turmoil ~ plus, and this is sad, I sometimes have the feeling they should thank me for giving them so much more playfulness and happiness in their childhood than I had. I felt like they didn't know how lucky they were. Thing is: they DESERVE a happy and playful childhood just as much as I did. DH and I are not as immature and clueless as my parents were. We are doing the best we can ~ just like my parents were. OK, that's my way of introduction...

Oh, one more thing. Dr. Cohen references Patty Wipfler several times in his book. I am fortunate enough to live near her and take advantage of her parenting support listening groups every other week, and her playmornings which teach a playful style including being the bumbling incompetent one, letting children win and be powerful, and role playing. It is from this learning that I want to address Sphinx:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sphinx*
Okay this is going to sound stupid, but I think i need help with this. I'm reading and absolutely loving this book, and want so much to implement it with my very angry and sad 5 1/2 year old... but it's not working! Maybe I don't take the play in the right direction, or something. I can't pinpoint exactly how/why I'm failing at it, but it's like, it's hard to think of what to say or do, and dd doesn't really laugh and get the energy out, she kind of just half smiles or goes along with it, but her anger still remains.

For instance: yesterday she got upset because her friend had to go home, and she blamed it on me and hit me and called me stupid. I told her she could pretend to hit and kick me, but not do it for real. I held my hands out so she could punch them and she did that for awhile but it didn't seem satisfying for her. So then I had her and her friend pretend to stomp my feet and I was dramatically screaming owww and pretending to cry. The friend laughed but my dd didn't - and she really wanted to stomp and hurt me. She was air-kicking me and I kept saying "thanks! I love you too!" (not being sarcastic - but maybe she thought I was being?) and trying to give her hugs which she vehemently rejected. Dd hits and kicks and screams horrible things at me on a daily basis and I've been trying to find some ground for negotiation for months now - i really think the playful concept could be the way out of this cycle we're in. After the friend left, I asked dd what would help her when she feels angry like that - her answer was "if you would let me hit, kick, pinch and punch you!" I said well you can't do it for real, but let's pretend. I said we can do the kicking dance, or I can hold a pillow right in front of me and you can punch & kick it. She screamed "No! That is not good enough! I want to really do it!" And walked away and sulked.

What would you do?

Half of Patty's prescription (my word, not hers) for connecting with children is Special Time which is essentially the Playful Parenting approach with a few minor differences. The other half has to do with fear and healing it. Children have faced terrifying and helpless situations since before they were born. Birth itself is certainly often very terrifying for an infant, and from then on, no matter how responsive the parents are, times of helplessness and powerlessness are certain to occur. When a baby or child (or adult) is afraid, the natural healing process includes crying, trembling and perspiring, and struggling in the presence and warmth of someone who loves you. When this healing process is interrupted, it goes underground until some new situation restimulates the original fear and the tears and anger come up again. From what I've read, your DD seems to be in the throes of some big fears. What she may need is time to struggle in your arms to heal the fears. She has asked to literally hit and punch you. That would, in reality, not help anyone since she would feel badly for hurting her beloved mom and you would not be respecting your right to not being hurt.

Here's the idea I have for you: wait for the next pretense your DD chooses to get angry or cry (for example, blaming you for her friend having to leave, needing to wear a dress that is in the laundry, wanting only her blue cup when you've offered her red one, etc) and then just get close to her. Physically sit next to her, take her into your lap if she'll let you - or follow her gently and sit by her again if she leaves you - listen to her cry. If at all possible, hold her gently and firmly in your arms and let her struggle without letting her hurt you. Tell her you want to be with her while she's feeling so (angry, sad, however it looks to you) and that you don't have any place you'd rather be than right there with her while she cries and rages. This can be physically challenging, and emotionally too especially if you were not allowed anger or crying as a child. Your goal is to give her a safe, warm, loving place to struggle against the fears she has internalized and which are keeping her from being a sunny, fun loving girl these days. Anger, according to Patty, is really fear and sadness packed in really hard. It takes physically struggling against something to release it. There was a time she was afraid and helpless and now she can be afraid and powerful in reliving the struggle there in your arms. This can go on for up to 45 minutes sometimes. One tell-tale sign that it's helping is if she is wailing and raging with very few if any tears. It can end with her falling asleep in the middle of it (it's exhausting work), with her calming and looking deeply into your eyes and slowly recognizing where she is again (not in the past with the fears), or even with her suddenly exclaiming that she feels better and hopping off to play.

This is a big topic and I know this post isn't complete. I've been a student of this kind of parenting since my girls were only 8 months old. Here's a success story: one of my DDs was stuck in the birth canal for 2 hours after her twin was born. As an infant she had trouble making eye contact for very long and would struggle to get away if I tried to hold her gaze. After multiple sessions of her crying and struggling in my arms, trembling against some (unknown to me) fear, she started to say, "I'm stuck! Let me out!!" while crying. We worked on this several more times. I'd remind her softly that she'll never be stuck in that way again; that she could get up now any time she wanted and that she was safe in my arms. Slowly, it transformed itself into play. Pretty soon she would say, "Hold me tight! I'm stuck!" with a glimmer in her eye. I'd hold her and she'd pretend struggle to get out, giggling as I held her and she slowly got free. She'd dance around, "I did it!" Nowadays she likes to get me stuck and say, "You're all tucked in!" and I pretend to cry and want out. She laughs until she lets me out and says, "It's ok, mama, it's just me!"

Please let me know if I can answer any questions. I want this to be helpful and I'm aware that I'm not an expert or a teacher so I may have been confusing.

All the best to all of you great moms. How lucky our kids really are to have such fun in their childhoods.

Warmly,
CurlyTop

p.s. see Parenting By Connection for more; it's Patty Wipfler's site.


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

Sphinz







Indeed, so many changed for your family. I can't begin to imagine how difficult a transition that must be and with a babe in arms too. I'm so glad CurlyTop joined the discussion. I can't give any better advice than that! Excellent. The best to you and hang in there.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *CurlyTop*
plus, and this is sad, I sometimes have the feeling they should thank me for giving them so much more playfulness and happiness in their childhood than I had. I felt like they didn't know how lucky they were. Thing is: they DESERVE a happy and playful childhood just as much as I did. DH and I are not as immature and clueless as my parents were. We are doing the best we can ~ just like my parents were.

Thanks so much for joining this discussion. Your contribution above was wonderful. Wow! How I'd love to live close enough to join in Patty's discussion groups! Indeed, I'm going to visit her site. Just today I got "Raising Cain" from the library... a book mentioned in the chapter about connecting with boys/empowering girls. It's been so enlightening. I'm convinced that not only does Dr. Cohen know what he's talking about, he surrounds himself with so many other amazing mentors in this business of parenting. I feel so blessed to have read his book.

The best to you!
Em


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## sphinx (Mar 13, 2003)

i was offline for a couple days. thank you SOOO much for your sensitive and kind replies. i will check out the website. I do try to hold her and let her let it out, but she is too angry. She really hurts me - i am 5 feet tall and i have a new baby i'm carrying, so practically speaking it's hard to be consistent. Actually my dd just went away with her dad for 2 weeks (first time every away from me longer than a weekend), so i think this is good time for a lot of reflection, consideration and planning on my part - how to provide her with more rhythm & stability, and brainstorming a consistent plan for how I am going to respond when she expresses herself in certain ways I think the break will be good for us both. thanks again and i will continue to follow this thread!


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## MangoMamma (May 14, 2002)

I've put the book down for awhile and have just realized that I have not been doing as much pp. How is everyone else doing? How do you keep it in your daily life/schedule?


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## Denise K (Feb 26, 2002)

We're starting on our 5th week of at least 2 people being sick in our household--and there are only 3 of us....







Stupid flu.

It's hard to keep that humor and energy going when you're sick. BUT it helps to know that if what I managed to do today was play with toy animals for a while and put food on the table, that was probably a good use of my resources.

(Ds's game with the animals went like this: Little Cheetah's mom is off talking to Elephant, and little Cheetah wants his mom, NOT his papa or the other animals, and he cries. Mama Cheetah says "little cheetah, it's just boring over here, we're only talking. I like to talk to elephant. You have papa, and I will come home when I'm done talking." Then little cheetah gets a new mom, the Mountain Horse, who doesn't like to talk so much. I was little cheetah--I complained about this, but ds said it was for the best. I was about to crack up--mama cheetah sounded pretty much like me.....







)


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## SRHS (Jan 9, 2003)

Hi...I too have put the book down and yesterday tried to playfully parent my 8 year old by spraying him with the hose when he said "Give it to me Mom" and he ended up in tears!!! Maybe he was tired, but I thought that would be playful and funny. He also had an annoying habbit of rolling his eyes, so when he does that, I do it all exaggerated at him when he asks me something in response or starts to argue...Like I answer but the whole time I'm rolling my eyes and head around. Its not working as well as I thought it would, though it is keeping me from making an annoyed response to him and neagging him about his "attitude"....

Susan


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## Mary-Beth (Nov 20, 2001)

I don't have a formal way of doing this...It would probably be helpful if I set aside time to have our playtime however i usually just wing it. My kids are young and I play a lot so there is ample opportunity. You know thinking about this though, it would really be nice to really set a time and tell my dd this is her time and she has my complete attention verses what I've been doing.

I just try to remember to be playful. The other night my dd was at the dinner table with the salad I made her (looking at it, not really eating it!) and she mentioned something about the Easter Bunny- I think she said she was the Easter Bunny- so I playful said, "Don't eat that salad bunny! Scram! Get off my garden!" and with each bite (now she's eating!) she said, "oh oh, the bunny's in your garden!" It was a fun game and it wasn't even actually doing a real totally attentive to her session I was still fixing dinner and tending to that. But is helped to be playful!

I lent my book to a friend and want to get it back so I can re-read it!
I still have a long way to go in remembering to be playful!!
~Mary-Beth


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

Glad to see the thread revived. We've been battling the flu as well and I have indeed (as Denise mentioned), lost my sense of humor with all the hacking, fevers and general malaise. *sigh* I'm vowing to gear back up and into PP because it's clear DS needs me to, but I'm off my game a bit these days. Also, I haven't been picking up the book everyday as I had been doing and it makes a difference. This is the kind of information that I NEED to keep fresh or it can get lost in a see of colorful four year old behavior.









I vow to pick it up and read a little tomorrow am, start the day on an up note.


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## Denise K (Feb 26, 2002)

And I am going to buy a copy! I can't memorize a whole book in the 3 weeks the library lets me keep it....

I think regular play times are a good idea, too. Not that we wouldn't play other times, but to make a commitment to do what HE wants for a certain amount of time, every week or more often. I just made a new schedule for myself, to make time for writing and meditation--not that I "made" any more time, but I committed to use those after-bedtime hours in this and tht way--and it has helped me a lot. I bet a regular playtime would help us both. So there's my goal.


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## Mary-Beth (Nov 20, 2001)

I'm not really one to be structured but I have noticed that setting a specific time has helped a lot. I noticed too that keeping to the duration I have alloted is so helpful becasue I used to kind of quit when I wasn't as interested thinking that the session was just naturally winding down and she was ready to play alone again. But now I'm starting to see that if I stay with her some really great stuff emerges- lastnight she started really telling me how she feels when she sees her sister eat something she cannot eat. (they have different allergies) and she wasn't whining or anything. It was really great to hear her express herself so clearly at just 2 years old!


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## MangoMamma (May 14, 2002)

OK I am going to start trying to have a set time to do pp. Thanks for all the ideas.


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## Denise K (Feb 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SRHS*
...yesterday tried to playfully parent my 8 year old by spraying him with the hose when he said "Give it to me Mom" and he ended up in tears!!! Maybe he was tired, but I thought that would be playful and funny. He also had an annoying habbit of rolling his eyes, so when he does that, I do it all exaggerated at him when he asks me something in response or starts to argue...Like I answer but the whole time I'm rolling my eyes and head around. Its not working as well as I thought it would, though it is keeping me from making an annoyed response to him and neagging him about his "attitude"....

Susan

I wanted to say yeah, I find it hard to predict the line between fun teasing and too much. I think I never have learned to do teasing play, from either end... And I do find that it's really hard for me to be any kind of playful about things that actually really bug me, or in conflict situations. Every once in a while I have a brilliant moment. But usually not.

I read a book (um....Your Child At Play, 2-3 years, I think) that talked about parental conflict styles. It was SO useful. Some parents (DH) are naturally prone to avoid or defuse conflict--often with redirection or humor. Others (me) are more about setting clear rules and then referring back to them. Sometimes this means I'm being clear about limits and helping DS learn, other times it means I'm stubborn and inflexible--depends on the day.

So anyway, my thought was that for some of us, using play in dealing with conflict or annoying behavior comes less easily. I do want to try it more, but I'm working on the easier stuff first, hoping that if we're all going around with "our cups full" maybe we won't need the conflict skills quite as often.


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## Mary-Beth (Nov 20, 2001)

I bet your 8 year old would really enjoy squirting you with a hose! Seriously. If the weather is warm enough where you are- or when it is- a water fight might be fun!

I was going to respond yesterday too about your post on sarcasm but a big thunder storm came and so I shut down my computer.
You might try games that give him control and help him feel strong since he seemed to want control (of the hose, in your example) You could play a game that he is better than you at for example. And, you could experiment with your response when he rolls his eyes...maybe you could say, "oh your sooo cute when you roll your eyes like that. Is that your way of asking for a kiss" and maybe playfully kiss or blow kisses. But again, make it playful not coming from a place of teasing. It's a fine line, one I'm learning how to master myself. Let us know how it goes!

~MB


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## wednesday (Apr 26, 2004)

I read the book over the past week, and have been following this thread. I want to share an interesting playful parenting experience I had with my nephew last night.

My BIL and his 7yo son "H" had come over to my MIL & FIL's house and we were all supposed to have dinner together. There was quite a group of other extended family and some guests. Due to some family issues going on (long unimportant story) BIL was not really able to pay attention to H, and after a while H got a little uncomfortable and unhappy and started saying he wanted to go home. We were about to have dinner but he said he wasn't hungry, hates barbecue, etc. His dad kind of shrugged and said, "Okay, you can walk home if you want." (Their house is around the corner two blocks away and SIL was at home with their two smaller kids anyway.)

I was feeling bad for H. I didn't want to see him make the walk in the cold rain feeling kind of crummy. I tried to playfully block the front door and say, "You can't make me go out there, it's cold!" He just said, "I'll go out the side door then," and walked away. I thought about it for a minute and then got an umbrella and followed him. The umbrella was just kind of a pretext, it wasn't really raining that hard, but when I offered it to him he said, "YOU carry it." So we walked together and I decided I would just let him talk about whatever he wanted. He started telling me all about planes and we chatted about that a little. He said he was cold and he leaned into me so I put my arm around him as we walked. Then a car went by with only one headlight on and he started squinting one eye to be like the car. Then he closed both eyes and said, "Hey, what if I was blind?" He wrapped both arms around my waist and said, "You would have to lead me while I held on." Then he got really goofy and was pushing me in one direction for a few steps, then another, so we were zig-zagging all over the place. We were both really cracking up. I tried to turn up the walk of the house before his and pretend it was his house. He yelled, "No, this isn't my house!" and I was challenging him back, "How do you know? You're blind! Yeah, I can see your mom in there! This is totally your house!" He pushed me the other way and yelled, "No! I control you! Go the way I push you!" He was still laughing. I turned back and we went the rest of the way up to his house where he happily stopped the game to go in and say hello to his mom. He asked her, "What's for dinner? I'm hungry."

Well his mom was not that receptive--she said to him, "I'm not making dinner! There was dinner over at grandmom and granddad's! You can go back over there if you want dinner!" He turned to me and asked, "Can we go back?" So we went back and he ate barbecue and was totally happy and had a good time.

I felt that the whole experience really validated for me everything I had read in the PP book. H really needed to have his emotional cup filled. Even with both his mom and dad being kind of dismissive of him right then, it took only ten minutes from another caring adult for him to feel connected and loved and want to participate in dinner with everybody. H *needed* to feel physical affection. He *needed* to feel like he had some control, because he was having some feelings that were very confusing. He needed to feel loved, and he needed to laugh. He got all those needs met and he was back to being a happy kid, getting his dinner, playing with his younger cousins, just being in a good place. I hate to think that otherwise he would have gone home alone in the cold, his mom would have groused at him, he probably would have gone off to his room to sulk, etc. I was also struck by how *easy* H made it for me. He came up with the whole playing blind and hanging on to me part. I just played along.

(Just to be clear, I am not dissing BIL & SIL. They have three high-energy kids and get really worn out...and they have totally come through for me when I was at the end of my rope with my own son!)


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## Mary-Beth (Nov 20, 2001)

WakeUpMama- thanks for sharing your experience! That is just awsome that you both had this experience together. You really followed his lead, literally! I bet this will be with him forever.


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

wakeupmama!

Thank you so much for sharing that story and for joining in on this thread. It really made my day to read that. Oh, how kids go exactly where they need to and if we take the time listen in, be there and let them lead the way... *sigh*

Life has been sort of tough around these parts lately. I haven't been my most PP self and your story here really inspired me to get back to work (er, uh PLAY







). Thanks. I needed that!

The best,
Em


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## wednesday (Apr 26, 2004)

I'm so glad you appreciated my story! I think the experience clarified for me the worry I'm sure a lot of us have--that it might be a bad idea to give attention when a child "asks" for it (by withdrawing or acting up) because of a risk that we are reinforcing undesirable behavior. So it was interesting to me that after we got back to grandmom and granddad's, H was totally independent from that point. He sat at the other end of the table to eat dinner. He helped his grandmom serve dessert. He played with his younger cousins in another room for a while. I don't think he and I even said anything more to each other the rest of the evening, other than "bye" when he and his dad left.

I've also been trying to be "playful" with my 18-month-old. It's a little harder because he's not very verbal yet and he mainly wants to "play" with things I just can't let him (like opening and shutting the front door which isn't ideal when it's really cold out). I have been trying to spend the time between when I get home from work, and when dinner is on the table (about an hour), just giving him 100% devoted attention. I'll try to play whatever he wants within limits of what I can allow. I've figured out a new game that is good for distracting him from the door/phone/dancing on tabletops, which is the "you can't get me" game. I pretend to run away from him and say, "You can't get me! You'll never catch me!" but I go really slow and then when he's close I kind of fall down on the floor and pull him on top so it's like he is knocking me down, and we have hugs and kisses. I say, "Oh no! You got me!" He LOVES this game. I think it combines the ideas about giving him control, letting him feel powerful, and enjoying physical closeness. Taking time to be goofy with him seems to really be paying off in terms of less general crankiness in the evenings. Being a WOHM it is especially heartbreaking for me if the 2-3 hours we have at night are a cry-fest, you know?

ETA: DH makes dinner! He is home before me and it helps a lot!


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## pfamilygal (Feb 28, 2005)

We play "coupon and sample detective" at the store. I tell Nate his job is to find all the coupons in the aisles and the ladies giving samples. I make him a hat out of a grocery flier. If there aren't any samples that day I give him a coupon and tell him its his job to find the product on it. Much less fighting in the store!

Yesterday we went to see Dora the Explorer at the mall. The line was 1 1/2 hrs long (they had an interactive Dora house set up and another exhibit - with a 2 1/2 hr line - to see Dora herself, all free) and I had my 4 y/o and my 4 y/o nephew with me. We did all sorts of goofy things in line. Simon Says, a bear hunt and "mother may I?" We took turns walking like our favorite animals and I gave them "jobs" to do (like: find a sign that has a word with 2 "o"s in it, run over to that sign with the Incredibles and point to your favorite character, etc). We had so much fun. All these other parents were staring at us and yelling at their kids. Yuck! I really don't care if folks at the mall think I'm lame. We had fun!


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## MangoMamma (May 14, 2002)

thanks for that story wakeupmamma. It was really inspiring. Its given me motivation to keep the pp going. I returned the book to the library but have put it on hold again and when finances are better am going to to try and buy it. I want to keep reading it and following up with this thread because I see what an amazing way it is to connect with my dd and to do things on her terms and empower her. Its so great that I am a little sad in thinking that it might become just another dusty book on my shelf.


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

Wonderful ideas. I'm thrilled this thread is still going!

wakeupmama - The only thing that makes me the least bit sad about PP is that I didn't read it when DS was younger (I read it when he had just turned 3). Many of it's principles I had already been practicing to a certain extend, but I would have loved to have the full range of information available, especially at that 18 month age--such a fun age!

Pfamilygal - Wow, the fact that you had the patience to stand in line with not one, but TWO four year olds to see DORA is amazing. The best part being that it sounds like standing in line was fun too. Kudos to you for having the patience and presence of mind to keep the play going. Loved your coupon idea too (the finding the product idea especially, DS would LOVE that).


 








Things are looking up around here. WAAAAY up. Flu over, mom feeling less cranky and kid easy going. I'm back to making a point of playing with DS first thing after breakfast. That's our specified playtime. It truly sets a great tone for the whole day. The rest of the day, I step in and out of playing with him as he needs and also get a bunch done here on the homefront.

The best to all!

Em


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## wednesday (Apr 26, 2004)

MangoMamma, I bought my copy used on amazon marketplace. They have quite a few very inexpensive copies of the hardbound edition (link).

pfamilygal, I love the coupon detective idea! That is so clever! I can really see a preschooler getting into that.

Embee, I am so glad I found this book now. It has really made a difference for us already. I enjoy being playful and I love the results but before I read the book I really struggled with how to play with DS. I wanted to but it was like I didn't know how.


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

Haven't read it yet . . .I just got it from the library today based on this thread, though! I read the intro and thought, OMG, are we (the author and me) the same person? The whole thing about playing when I just don't wanna and then falling asleep on the floor once I finally do . . .that's me!

Looking forward to learning here!


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

Mizelenius, Indeed I hear ya! Even having read the book (over and over), I still have many moments when I have to adjust my mindset and just sit down and play darnit! It sounds like the easiest thing in the world, but most of us realize that's it's truly not. The more I play, the better I get at it. The more I let DS lead, the more I learn, and the more he works through. I'm never disappointed in having made the effort, but I still have to actually talk myself into every now and again even with knowing how wonderfully it affects our whole relationship/family. Happy reading!


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## sphinx (Mar 13, 2003)

I was just reading in PP where he mentioned sweets & emotions being deeply related. I have sensed this greatly for a long time, because my dd appears to be using sweets as a way of asking for love. (I think half the world is doing it, too!) She is obsessed with sugar and wakes up begging for crap to eat - even seems to want to pace out her sugar dosage - every hour or two "can I have gum/chocolate/bon bon"? When I say no, major tantrums/power struggles ensue. But I notice that on days when we are more connected, there are fewer requests; on other days when we are less so, her sugar rant goes on and on. Any insights, thoughts or experiences with this? I am hoping it will all sort of heal itself as I get better at being playful and she is able to process the deeper stuff that's in there. But in the meantime, how to get the kid off sugar without making her hear no, no, no and feeling powerless all day?


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## Denise K (Feb 26, 2002)

Sphinx--

I just try to never have anything sweet in the house except some fruit. This is totally avoiding the issue, I know--but when we have sugar around, there is endless conflict. If I just say "we don't have any," honestly, DS can usually deal with that.

Yesterday I had a great moment when DS was whining in this awful squawk every time he didn't like something--and he wasn't liking anything. DH pushed his chair in so he wouldn't drop food all over himself, DS screeched, and I (without any forethought and with my FIL across the table) said "Oh that sonded awful! Did it HURT when he touched your chair? Was it like this?" And then I did a total dramatic freakout with facial expressions and bizarre noises about someone moving my chair, and DS laughed his head off.

I wish I had that kind of energy other days....today it's all about I have a right to not be treated this way, not "rewarding" bad behavior with attention, and trying to assert my authority, which is not going well. I don't know how to deal with it once I'm mad--but that's probably another thread.... we seem to be in a rough period. At least it seems like things haven't always been this hard. I need to play more, and I am feeling so drained and frustrted and like a bad parent that I can't stand to be silly. Maybe tomorrow will be better.


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## wednesday (Apr 26, 2004)

Oh Denise, I have so been there...just not feeling the energy to be "fun". In the PP book Cohen goes into how there are times you don't feel playful and you need your own emotional cup filled...I just didn't find the suggestions all that helpful. I think he mentioned a support network of friends, even a therapist, etc...I think I would feel more playful if I didn't have so much stress...but the stress is related to having to WOH fulltime, being anxious about finances, etc.

Does anyone have suggestions for filling one's own emotional cup?


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## MangoMamma (May 14, 2002)

I would love to hear other's suggestions to that one. For me I thought that going out with people might be a way to fill my cup. Going out to dinner with me and some friends, no dh and no dd. However, the last three nights out have really left me down, having me comparing myself to super successful people. So maybe that is not a good strategy for myself. I think I am going to try and investigate a writing group that meets on Saturday as a time to do something I enjoy or do an aquafit class. I notice one thing that allows me to fill my cup is allowing myself some time to curl up on the couch and read a book: fiction, non-fiction. I really have been enjoying just focussing on something for myself.


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

This may already have been answered in this thread, so please direct me to the appropriate post if it has!

I am still just skimming the book. However, I noticed one chapter in which he describes an 11 month old "hiding" from the world. He played games with her which made her cling more tightly to her mom. Isn't what the 11 month old experiencing just normal stranger-anxiety and nothing to be concerned about? If I were a child in that stage, I'd think that I'd hate for a stranger to invade my space (he did things like try to touch her, I think).

My DD went through that stage. She was very fearful of new people, and I think that's normal, no? Now, at age 3, she is a complete extrovert and talks to just about anyone who will listen, which sometimes freaks me out.

Just wanted to get others' opinions on that section . . .

BTW, wakeupmama, your experience really touched me!


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## MangoMamma (May 14, 2002)

I was a bit confused with that section as well. My dd is really clingy and I didn't really understand what he was saying about that.


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## sphinx (Mar 13, 2003)

ideas for refilling one's cup
meditation/yoga/other quiet, internal practice
get a massage & go to the sauna
go swimming
have a date with significant other
call a friend who lives far away
go on a hike (or other nature spot) with a close friend or SO
listen to a CD of a comic or watch a hilarious movie - make yourself laugh
listen to your favorite music when you were a teenager


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## Denise K (Feb 26, 2002)

What I do to refill my cup: make time to write, make time to meditate--generally after DS is asleep. Watch mindless movies with DH--The Great Train Robbery. Go for walks at night with other mom friends. Do one-on-one talking time with a friend, sometimes NOT about parenting at all.

The problem: When things start getting hard, the first thing I jettison is my time alone/time away. I feel guilty leaving, or going off by myself, when DS is in freakout mode and Dh is tired from lifting logs all day. It's partly mom-guilt, and partly caring about my family.

I would love a playful parenting support group--and as my dad says, people in hades want ice water. When am I supposed to find a time to do that? And if I did find a time, I'd use it for a writer's group.... I just do my parenting support one-on-one. I walked to my neighbor's porch yesterday (she has much older kids) and said "so what would you do with this?" and described our struggles' pattern. She had some good ideas. No scheduling, no stress, nothing to organize.


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## Stacymom (Jul 7, 2002)

I've been reading this bok over the past few weeks too, and I can't get enough of it. In fact, I've renewed it from the library 2 times, and just need to go get my own copy. I'm excited to have people to discuss it with.

My biggest issue is this- (and I'm only a little more than halfway through the book, so maybe I will find the answer...) how do you end playtime? I know the the optimal answer is that you should be able to incorporate playtime into things all day long, but what happens when that just isn't practical? For example, I teach violin lessons out of my home four afternoons a week. My dds (3 1/2 and 22 months) are used to this, since I have been doing it since before either one of them was born. I try to make the time in between nap time and lesson time (usually at elast an hour) focused exclusively on them without any interruptions, so that they can be more independent during lessons. The problem is, even after a sustained playtime or connection, my oldest completely freaks out every time I have lessons come over.

She has a tendency to get so worked up phsyically and emotionally that she doesn't know when to calm down and "separate" herself from the activities that we were doing. This happens when we're doing physical play too- she will start being agressive and even violent if we stop wrestling because someone gets hurt, or we have to transistion out of an activity. I've tried giving her countdown type warnings like "In five (Two, one, etc) minutes ____ is going to come for a lessons, and you can color or play with your trains." Or, I've tried pulling her into my lap after we're done wrestling or roughhousing so that I can rub her back and try to help her calm down, but the transistions are so rough! Any suggestions?


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Stacymom*
My biggest issue is this- (and I'm only a little more than halfway through the book, so maybe I will find the answer...) how do you end playtime? I know the the optimal answer is that you should be able to incorporate playtime into things all day long, but what happens when that just isn't practical? For example, I teach violin lessons out of my home four afternoons a week. My dds (3 1/2 and 22 months) are used to this, since I have been doing it since before either one of them was born. I try to make the time in between nap time and lesson time (usually at elast an hour) focused exclusively on them without any interruptions, so that they can be more independent during lessons. The problem is, even after a sustained playtime or connection, my oldest completely freaks out every time I have lessons come over.

Hm, an idea...

During your uninterrupted playtime, trying playing "violin lesson." With my DS, anytime we're having any issue, we PLAY it. Reversing the roles ("suspending reality") is a favorite for DS and has helped us through many tough transitions. He tends to want to try on my role for size and then switch it back and forth and all around until we've played it out. This might require you to get things started: "Hey, why don't you be the violin teacher today? I'll be your student!" And then hopefully she'll jump in and go where she needs to with it. Give it some time and see. DS never ceased to amaze me during these role reversals or playing out of real life dramas. He always seems to lead us right into the exact place he needs to go to work it through! OTOH, you might perhaps wish to do a little more guiding here and there if you feel the need: "Hey, now let's pretend your student isn't here yet, and I'll pretend to be you, and we can play like we always do!" Grab a stuffed animal or doll to be the arriving student and when the student arrives, you can make a fuss, an over the top fuss!" A silly approach can help you find the giggles and release some tensions, or OTOH, a more serious fuss might have her running to you and soothing YOU through the transition (I've used this approach with DS's fears... acting afraid of something that scares him and having him comfort me has really helped him have more power over his fears). Sometimes just having had the chance to play the other role can be so helpful for kids. In play, we can let them be in charge of that one situation where they never get to be and that in and of itself, can help when the real situation arrives. Once she's gotten to step into your shoes, she might feel more calm in the future. It's worked for us a dozen or so times!









Well, my .02 for what it's worth. Best of luck and happy reading!









THe best,
Em


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## PM (Nov 19, 2001)

Great thread!

I'll share yesterday evening's playful moment.

Dd got a bit wound up with her babysitter yesterday afternoon and really needed a physical outlet. She was starting to bounce off the walls; I was starting an internal dialogue that sounded a bit like this: "Gawd, I just want some peace tonight. I don't want to have to deal with one of her moods." (I'm pregnant and sleepy.) She, of course, was picking up on that and getting irritated herself. She was also hungry. But there wasn't much in the house to eat, so I kept putting her off, hoping she could wait till we got something better than another piece of toast with jam.

I needed to get her out the door so we could go grocery shopping when papa finished work. She resisted because I wasn't exactly doing things nicely -- stuff like, "Come on! Let's get going" in my grumpy, I-don't-want-to-do-this voice. I was putting on her shoes, kind of frowning and grabbing each foot and pulling it towards me to tie the laces. And in my head I was sympathizing with the poor kid, telling myself how she's tired, hungry -- nothing she can control, nothing I should be irritated at.

So, suddenly I just started this ridiculous laugh, the kind you do when you're a 9 year-old kid. Bwwaaahhhaa hhaa HAAA HAA. At first she didn't like it (she has issues about being laughed at -- long story). But then she started to giggle. I tickled her a bit, and she laughed. And then, because I was still feeling particularly tense, I started to play karate (she learned about this somehwere and thinks it's the funniest thing). So we started doing these karate chops and yelling karate chop! (not the usual fake Karate sounds that seem rather sterotypical/racist to me)

Anyway, we're a choppin and a kickin, and she's laughing and having fun. At one point, I had to pee before we left, so we started saying totally silly things like Karate Pee Pee Chop! (what kid doesn't love the peepee caca talk?)

Suddenly, she looked at me and said, "Mommy, this makes me so happy!"

And we continued playing karate down the stairs and outside in the driveway. By the time papa came to pick us up we were both cool & relaxed!


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## muse (Apr 17, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ParisMaman*
Suddenly, she looked at me and said, "Mommy, this makes me so happy!"


Awww, that says it all eh?














Makes me totally want to buy this book.

I just had a baby after a pretty tiring pregnancy and feel like I've forgotten how to have fun with my DS (3 1/4 yrs). He's also changed a lot with the new baby, and with just being a 3 yr old.

All my creativity and tolerance has gone out of the window and I'm constantly nagging him - which gets nowhere - and then getting frustrated, then angry...usually all ends up in tears with me having to apologise to DS for losing it, and him apologising to me for "making me angry". Same story with DH, who I never saw angry EVER before he had a 3 yr old...Lately DS keeps saying he wants to make us happy, and it breaks my heart, that should not be his responsibility.









Does the book address playful ways to express/deal with anger (on the parent's part)? Sounds like I could use it right now, anyway...


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## PM (Nov 19, 2001)

Muse, I haven't even read the book yet.







:

I've used playful parenting (ideas I've read here) for a while, but not consistently. I subscribed to this thread when it started (Embee is so inspiring!







).

I think what I did really worked (the silly laughter); growling, also, seems to work -- if you do it playfully, that is!









I really know what you mean about your dh. My dh is the calmest guy in the world, but my dd can get him to yell and grab (well, he'll yell no -- not the kind of yelling most people think of, but it's a biggie for this guy, believe me!). He uses non-violent techniques now, and those are working for him -- for the most part.


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## Denise K (Feb 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *muse*

Does the book address playful ways to express/deal with anger (on the parent's part)? Sounds like I could use it right now, anyway...

This is one of my biggest struggles too. The one thing I'm rememebring from the book (which I haven't read in a while) that helped me is more of an attitude--that's it's OK to not be in control of your kid, and it's OK to just be silly sometimes. I tend to be afraid of what will happen if I am not serious--everything will just spin out of control. Those moments when I do manage to see a rage situation coming, and choose to go down a play track instead, are really good. It doesn't have to be outrageously silly or brilliant-- Getting DS to walk along the sidewalk instead of whine to be carried, I can gripe and be firm with him or I can say "Oh no! Look at all these cracks! We have to jump over ALL these cracks! OH, can we DO It?"

I find that if I can wrestle with DS sometime during the day, it helps my mood as well as his. Gives me more energy. Lets me, too, get out my aggressions in a playful and not hurtful way.


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ParisMaman*
So, suddenly I just started this ridiculous laugh, the kind you do when you're a 9 year-old kid. Bwwaaahhhaa hhaa HAAA HAA. At first she didn't like it (she has issues about being laughed at -- long story). But then she started to giggle. I tickled her a bit, and she laughed. And then, because I was still feeling particularly tense, I started to play karate (she learned about this somehwere and thinks it's the funniest thing). So we started doing these karate chops and yelling karate chop! (not the usual fake Karate sounds that seem rather sterotypical/racist to me)

Anyway, we're a choppin and a kickin, and she's laughing and having fun. At one point, I had to pee before we left, so we started saying totally silly things like Karate Pee Pee Chop! (what kid doesn't love the peepee caca talk?)

Wow, us too! What is it about karate chopping? DH, in one of his silly moments a few nights ago (since DS was a tiny babe, it's been DH's mission in life to get him to laugh, really laugh), I was sitting out in the office when the two of them came in and started their karate chopping. Mainly, it was Dad doing the demonstrations and DS laughing so hard he had to run to the bathroom. Indeed, these are the kind of moments that can make or break a situation and while it's not easy getting through our own grumpiness, it sure does pay off for all. I wonder if you happened to be imagining how that trip to the grocery store would have went had you not been able to switch gears and "find the giggle." I've had more than my share of teeth grinding, jaw clenching moments on route, just hoping to break through my own baggage long enough to save us both from grocery store mayhem.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *ParisMaman*
I've used playful parenting (ideas I've read here) for a while, but not consistently. I subscribed to this thread when it started (Embee is so inspiring!)

Ah ParisMaman, thanks.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *muse*
Does the book address playful ways to express/deal with anger (on the parent's part)? Sounds like I could use it right now, anyway...
Yesterday 04:40 AM

This is a great question (indeed, I struggle with this too). The book has an entire chapter devoted to "accepting strong feelings, YOURS and theirs."

One thing Dr. Cohen mentions as a suggestion for angry parents is to "act angry" when your really are angry. Sort of an over-dramatization of your real feelings--adds silliness but also allows you to release some of your strong feelings. If DS is lollygagging and I NEED to get out the door (for a bonified appointment or for sanity purposes), sometimes I'll take on the silly drill sargeant voice, "ALRIGHT! That's it! No more of this lollygagging! Time to ship up and shape out!" Silly I know... I usually follow up with marching (ok, stomping) out the door loudly, DS right behind. When he's stalling at bedtime, I might say, "THAT'S IT! YOU ARE FORBIDDEN TO BRUSH YOUR TEETH EVER AGAIN!" And DS (very receptive to the idea of reverse psychology I should add), says, "OH YES I WILL! WATCH ME!" And then me, "ah well, if it means that much to ya, I guess we can make an exception." Sheepish. I tell ya, this little suggestion has helped mucho. Not only does it indeed help me release some of my anger, it breaks the tension in a big way and usually gets us laughing silly.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Denise K*
It doesn't have to be outrageously silly or brilliant-- Getting DS to walk along the sidewalk instead of whine to be carried, I can gripe and be firm with him or I can say "Oh no! Look at all these cracks! We have to jump over ALL these cracks! OH, can we DO It?"

Denise - these are the very things that get us through the day. At present, DS is obsessed with counting everthing. If we're on the way home and he asks to be carried, I might suggest out of the blue that we count the lines in the pavement or are "how many steps is it to the car." If I'm quick on my feet, I can think these things up all day. If I'm not... oh, I hate to think about those days.









The best,
Em


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## muse (Apr 17, 2002)

Ok, I've got the book on order..









I talked to a friend about it who I thought would be interested and she was very resistant, saying she feels it's really important that parents are an authority figure and silliness/playfulness could interfere with that...hmm..what would you say to that?

I think personally I only really feel that's true for me when it comes down to safety issues, everything else is more negotiable...


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## Tanibani (Nov 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *muse*
I talked to a friend about it who I thought would be interested and she was very resistant, saying she feels it's really important that parents are an authority figure and silliness/playfulness could interfere with that...hmm..what would you say to that?

I got it and was skimming it yesterday. I really like it. I first heard of it from Aletha Solter. She wrote these books
:http://www.awareparenting.com/books.htm

She had a great handout on the effects of typical forms of discipline. Here ya go:

*Comparison of 4 approaches to Discipline by ALETHA SOLTER (AWESOME handout)
1 - Authoritarian - (violent)*
Who has the power? Parents
Type of control? Control by physical or verbal abuse
Methods used - Hitting, spanking, threatening, yelling, humiliating, blaming, criticizing
Home atmosphere - Tense, rigid, oppressive
*What children learn* - Blind obedience to authority, violence, competitiveness, lying, no self-discipline
*How children might feel* - Angry, hostile, scared, powerless, low self-esteem
*What can happen during adolescence* - Children rebel, leave or "act out" (fights, drugs, etc...) become hurtful to others; parents run out of power

*2 - Authoritarian (non-violent)*
Who has the power? Parents
Type of control - Control by material & emotional means
Methods used - Rewards - money, privileges, treats, hugs, praise, attention. Punishments - loss of privileges, isolation, withdrawal of love & attention, making child feel guilty
Home atmosphere - Orderly, consistent
*What children learn* - Conformity, apple-polishing, deviousness, competitiveness, no self-discipline
*How children might feel* - Resentful, angry, misunderstood, manipulated
*What can happen during adolescence?* Children withdraw emotionally, rebel, search elsewhere for unconditional love; parents run out of power.

*3 - Permissive*
Who has the power? Children
Type of control - no control
Methods used - Pleading, bribing, nagging, yielding, lecturing, waiting, self-sacrificing, rescuing, neglecting
Home atmosphere - chaotic, inconsistent
*What children learn* - how to manipulate others, no self-discipline
*How children might feel* - confused, guilty, insecure
*What can happen during adolescence* - Children are selfish, dependent, demanding, irresponsible, parents resent children

*4 - Democratic*
Who has the power? Everybody
Type of control - self-control
Methods used - unconditional love, modeling, encouragement, filling needs, listening to feelings, natural consequences, problem solving, family meetings
Home atmosphere - Relaxed, orderly, flexible
*What children learn* - Self-discipline, responsibility, problem-solving skills, respect, cooperation
*How children feel* - happy, secure, confident, well-loved, high self-esteem
*What can happen during adolescence* - Love & respect between parents & children, no need for children to rebel or withdraw.

Muse, now you can answer your friends question.

From what I have been reading, the author believes that playfulness increases cooperation (rather than encouraging resentfulness if an authoritative figure is too "heavy handed") and maintains that close connection throughout adolesence.

BTW, she also highly recommends the P.E.T. book, which explains HOW to be democratic (I just got that too.) Her 3 books are also incredible.


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## muse (Apr 17, 2002)

Tanya, thanks for that! Very very interesting; led to some interesting discussions with Dh...


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## Denise K (Feb 26, 2002)

Wow, I want MY house to be like that Democratic one!









About parental authority: I have this issue in a big way some days. I definitely struggle with fears about not being in control of my kid, even though I don't believe in controlling people (in my intellect, anyway...). And yet I don't want to be a servant in my own home either... There is a great description of the unhelpful parenting this can lead me into in
the book "Easy to Love, Difficult to Discipline." Whoever recommended that book (on this thread somewhere), thank you! I would never have read it, due to hating the title. But it IS a great complement to PP, and is giving me a clear path to work on dealing with conflict and being a better role model. It's definitely what I was asking for in my life, and I recommend it to others here who are struggling with anger. Hooray for all the awesome authors out there!

DS is loving Rompus Walrus (wrestling) as much as ever--particularly games where he gets to knock me down a lot, or where I fall on him and am too weak to get up. Giggle giggle giggle. This is the best antidote to the nap-skip blues at 3 p.m., and boy is hard to drag myself to do it....
The other day, after hanging around while I was dealing with my period in the bathroom (he usually avoids that), he ended up orchestrating a huge playacting story in which he protected me by slaughtering all manner of other animals (he was a horse, I think) and getting blood everywhere. Quote from three-year-old: "I bit its head off. See all the bloody footprints?" I love trusting his process--it's like science fiction. Without the kind of reassurance PP offered on violent etc play, I'd probably be trying to stop him from killing everything--instead I can just participate and enjoy his imagination, while trying not to crack up from the total wackiness of it all. Helps me remember how much I love him, instead of always getting bogged down in anxiety and trying to fix him.


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Denise K*
Without the kind of reassurance PP offered on violent etc play, I'd probably be trying to stop him from killing everything--instead I can just participate and enjoy his imagination, while trying not to crack up from the total wackiness of it all. Helps me remember how much I love him, instead of always getting bogged down in anxiety and trying to fix him.









Denise, I too am soooo soooo grateful to PP for this very reason. DS can be so very fearful, but yet drawn to those things he fears. I've got "bloody dinosaurs" laying all over my house. I've just learned to walk around them and clean up where necessary.









You were mentioning "Easy to Love..." which surely does come well recommended in these parts. I will have the check it out one of these days. I recently read, "Unconditional Parenting" by Alfie Kohn, and I'm finding it to be a great compliment to "PP" as well. My recent quote is that if "UP" is the book that tells us that it's the "relationship with our child" that truly counts, well then it's "PP" that shows us one of the best ways to strengthen and nurture that relationship. Indeed.









The best,
Em


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## ladyelmo1 (Aug 23, 2003)

I haven't managed to read this whole thread quite yet, but I will. Ran into it last night, read first two pages, and am going out to buy this book today. This sounds wonderful.

-Melissa


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

Did anyone happen to catch the chat with Larry Cohen today? I wasn't able to be there (DH uses the computer during the day for work).







Does anyone know if I can access a transcript or something? Guess I'll go searching about for something like that.

I'm hoping this thread might revive a bit? I have been having the hardest time playing lately. DS weaned a few months ago, my hormones are nutz, our relationship is changing and... somedays I just can't stand one more minute of playing dinosaurs. The biggest irony comes today when I grabbed PP off the shelf and began to read the chapter, _Learn to love the games you hate._ Of course, the whole time I was trying to read, DS wanted to play, and I kept putting him off so I can read about how to play with him.







I've got problems.









Lately, I just haven't been feeling as confident about our play. As Cohen describes, it seems to have become very repetetive and I'm not sure if it's just DS being his focused self or if we need to broaden the horizons a little. He has things he really needs to work through (social stuff mostly), but we haven't happened upon a good formula for doing that. Our old methods seemed to be unhelpful, or perhaps its because I haven't been putting my all into it?

Anyone else having any thoughts about play lately? Suggestions, experiences, co-misery? It's like I know what I need to do, but can't seem to get there mentally. It's me me me! Can't. get. out. of. my. own. head.

Help.

The best,
Em


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## Mary-Beth (Nov 20, 2001)

Hi Embee...if you find the transcipt please let me know. I missed it but was so interested. Anyway...what has helped me is to focus on being present when you play. Don't think about what you want to "work on" or figure out what you child may be processing (or what you're processing!). Really be present. It takes practice. Suspend any judgments and outside thoughts. A friend of mine says this, "No place to go, nothing to do but be right here loving you." I remind myslef of that going into a playtime session.
I'll also add that when it's not your time to play then freely disengage from the play and give yourself time to attend to those other thoughts that might otherwise creep into your mind. I notice that I sometimes feel like I "should" always be playing. It'n not realistic. When I let go of that I do much better. If my dd wants to play while I'm wanting to do something else I tell her I'm really looking forward to playing in (name time).
I just thought it was worth mentioning so you could check in with yourself and see if that applied to you as well.


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## Denise K (Feb 26, 2002)

Yeah, embee, I'm there lately too. Me me me--I have so much to do and it's so important and hard, can't we play something a little more stimulating before I go nuts, there must be a shortcut...... Also I got another black eye wrestling a couple weeks ago, which always slows me down awhile (I am prone to black eyes







).

And weaning is huge. I weaned DS last October, and it's only now that it's starting to feel really settled and not loaded anymore for either of us. I think.

Here is what's helping me: I did make a Mama Special Playtime (MSP) date and put it on the calendar each week. He loves it--just the idea that we will play whatever HE wants. And I love the fact that the timer is set, so if we're playing Cars it will only be for 20 minutes. :LOL

The rest of the time when I play with him, I'm not always playing exactly what his favorite thing is--I try to find common ground more. We go outside, and sometimes I MAKE myself just sit down and dig in the dirt instead of messing with the garden or something. Or running home from the park singing silly songs. When I'm outside I'm better at everything. And having the MSP date gives me permission to make the play something I enjoy too, at other times--he wants to play Bulldozer, and I like to build houses out of twigs, so we can do a construction site together.

This is on good days.....some days I think it is OK to pat myself on the back for not yelling at anybody. (If I manage that.)

Also we both like the wrestling game someone suggested, where I surprise him with a grab--he walks across the bed to nibble my leaves (I'm a tree) and then I roar and throw him on a pile of pillows. About thirty times. It's easier for me to get myself to do that than all-out full-body wrestling, sometimes.

A practical note--my computer is taking forever to download this immense thread now. Can we start a new one? Would anybody mind?


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

Denise, Mary-Beth, Thanks so much for the pep talks/advice. I needed that!









Things are much MUCH better in the past several days. I think for the most part, boredom was our biggest issue. Like I mentioned, DS recently weaned (he's been working on it since around Christmas time and as of last week, hasn't asked to nurse in a month), and with hormones awry and the weather windy and cold, we've been cabin fever city. EEK. By mid-last week, I finally decided "we're getting out of this house" no matter how windy, how cold! It worked. Got our juices flowing and although we're still having moments here and there, I know that being "present" is what he truly needs (thanks Mary-Beth, good reminder and words to live by!). When I drop the "issue playing" stuff, DS goes where he needs to. When our activities are varied and we get some fresh air each day and a few outtings each week, things are great.

The thing is, we went to the beach today. Yes, there were times when he felt a little threatened by older rambuncous kids and he donned his "dinosaur roar" mode, but he was also respectful of people's space while roaring about and even stopped to explain what he was doing to a few older ladies walking on the beach.







Once, he'd gotten used to the people running around nutty at the beach, he relaxed and we played hard and had a great day--FOUR HOURS at the beach, just him and I playing. The favorite being the chase game... we run after each other (taking turns), and somehow I can seem to catch him, but he always catches me and we fall in a pile and laugh, over and over and over... its the best. By the end of out time at the beach, he actually wanted me to "catch him" and I did... albeit in a falling all over myself sort of way... if I hadn't gotten sunburned, I'd march us right back there tomorrow!









Thanks again!

Em


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## wednesday (Apr 26, 2004)

I startd a new thread here.


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