# Would you LIE to your Midwife or OB about your LMP?



## filiadeluna (Oct 2, 2007)

I am curious to see what everyone's views are on this... Long story short: With baby #1 I was induced at 42 weeks by a Certified Nurse Midwife in a hospital, with no signs of issues with amniotic fluid, the placenta, or otherwise. I was given Cytotec and Pitocin, and had a posterior baby. It was a very traumatic 36 hour labor that ended in a 3rd degree tear, some hemorraging, and postpartum depression. I am determined to have a home birth when I get pregnant with #2. I thought this would solve ALL of my issues, but apparently even the homebirth midwives around here transfer care anywhere from 41 to 42 weeks (there may be one who "lets" people go to 43, but I'm not sure). Personally, I do not feel that my baby was ready at 42 weeks, even though I am sure of when she was conceived. I feel strongly that my next baby is likely to come later also, and I'm comfortable with waiting beyond 43 weeks as long as there are no obvious signs of issues. *I will NOT be induced again. I refuse.* I am extremely fearful of giving birth in a hospital again, and I'm afraid that I will spend all this time and money with a midwife and then end up being risked-out simply due to a time limit. If that happens, I would probably just not show up for induction. Maybe even consider an unassisted birth, although I am not entirely comfortable with that, and I know my DH wouldn't be comfortable with that at all. *I'm tempted, when I do get pregnant, to lie to my midwife about when my last period was (add a week or two). * A friend of mine whom I mentioned this to said that she wouldn't do it simply because they wouldn't automatically start doing Non-Stress Testing when I might actually "need" it. What would you do in my situation? I just need to figure this out BEFORE I get pregnant, so that I can stick with a plan. Thanks!


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## mamapigeon (Dec 16, 2010)

I don't think I would be able to lie... I can understand why you would want to with your past experience, but if you are convinced you won't induce, then what does it matter if you tell the truth about the date of your LMP? I don't think they can force you to induce?


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## kriket (Nov 25, 2007)

I don't think I would in that case, but I would be very very firm that I would remain pregnant forever before being induced just because my number was up.

I do "lie" to some HCPs about my LMP, I have 35 day periods and as to not appear a week more pregnant.

It's hard to say if #2 will be late too. I've heard the first always bakes the longest.


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## treeoflife3 (Nov 14, 2008)

yes, I would consider lying if I felt the person I had to use at the birth (because if it were a choice, this wouldn't be a concern) would push hard/try to require that I birth before I feel my body is ready rather than just monitoring and letting my body do its own thing unless/until something seems to be going wrong.


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## AlexisT (May 6, 2007)

No. I would, however, adjust LMP to match ovulation dates, if known.

If you lie by that much, your midwife is going to get suspicious when your baby's size doesn't match the dates. 2 weeks would result in a noticeable discrepancy. Not getting an early ultrasound will allow for some ambiguity, but not 2 weeks' worth.


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## Bald_Bull's_Mama (Apr 7, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlexisT*
> 
> No. I would, however, adjust LMP to match ovulation dates, if known.


Yes to this. I adjusted my LMP to go with my known O date with this baby. I would just be VERY clear with your provider that you will not be doing an induction for non-medical reasons. Would it help you to interview some providers before you get pregnant? Have you posted in the tribe area here to find a more supportive provider?

I know our local CNMs have to transfer care at 42 weeks (liability insurance, I assume), but the OB that backs them up is not an induction pusher.


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## Lisa1970 (Jan 18, 2009)

I have used fertility treatments with my last few children so I knew exactly when I ovulated. But I found that OBs office will ask you your LMP and even if that puts your due date off by months, they put it in there anyway. It drives me nuts. I had where I had a baby at 23.5 weeks and got pregnant again before I got my period back. But the nurse insisted on writing my due date down as if I were pregnant since before my preemie who died! That was not just nuts, but it was hurtful having her constantly tell me I was due in March, when my baby that was due in March had died, and I was not even due until September! I decided after that to just take the date I ovulated, go back 2 weeks, and give that as my LMP. Then I do not have to stress over it.


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## kalamos23 (Apr 11, 2008)

I adjust to match my ovulation date, but had a similar experience when I got pregnant directly after a m/c with this baby, I told them my lmp was in may, but that I had am/c and got pregnant directly after and they still say mylmp is in between when I was bleeding from the m/c and my ovulation, even though ikeep telling them itwas not an lmp.

So in short, yes but only to match ovulation.


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## Evergreen (Nov 6, 2002)

I fudged a bit with one of mine. I said I couldn't remember the LPM ( I did) but knew the date of conception (which was true.) It all worked out.


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## FiveLittleMonkeys (Jan 21, 2009)

Like other posters, I would do it so it lined up with a known date of ovulation. If you lied about LMP by 2 weeks, making you seem 2 weeks LESS pregnant than you actually were, this could come back to bite you in the rear the other way if your baby was to decide to come at say, 37 weeks by YOUR actual dates, but your midwife/HCP thinks your baby is only 35 weeks. In many states, a midwife can't deliver until at least 36 weeks, and some it's 37. So you'd know that you're really 37 weeks, but all she knows is by the dates YOU gave, your baby is 35....and therefore, she has to risk you out.

I would just line it up with your ovulation date and choose your providers as carefully as you can.


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## artekah (Apr 26, 2009)

Absolutely YES, no qualms about it whatsoever, but as PPs have said, only to make it 2 weeks before your ovulation date. I happen to know I conceived my current baby-in-utero on day 21 of my cycle, so I just subtracted 14 days from conception to get my fake (but more accurate as far as they're concerned) LMP.

If I was unsure about when I conceived, I'd probably tell them my actual LMP (since this is why they go by LMP in the first place, because they assume most women couldn't possibly know when they conceived--so I suppose it does make sense to go by LMP if that's the only info you have.)

In your case I'd try very hard to find a care provider who understands and respects that some normal, healthy pregnancies can go up to or beyond 42 weeks!


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## mmaramba (May 17, 2005)

IDK... With the "next" PG being my first... There's no history in my family of preemies/pre-dates babies like AT ALL, but plenty going to 42-44 weeks. If I didn't know my ovulation date but did know my LMP and were facing a situation like you (HB MW won't attend after 42 weeks, which I think will be the case-- *sigh*)... I might lie by a week. Especially given it will be my first and going to 42-43 is still within the bell curve. I wouldn't lie by more than a week, but I might do a week, especially if 42 weeks is a hard legal line as I suspect it might be. I have considered this and I think that's where I fall, personally.


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## kriket (Nov 25, 2007)

For some reason I can't quote... lesigh. AlexisT mentioned 2 weeks is enough to notice, I would disagree. My LMP puts this PGcy at EDD 7/14 but an early U/S confirmed my educated guess of EDD 7/21, then the 20w U/S put my EDD (if they did it this way, mine don't change it, I have heard some do, but I think that's a touch silly) at 6/29.

I think it boils down to you need to have a HCP that you can be totally honest with.


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## tracymom1 (May 7, 2008)

My advice is to find a DEM or other type of hands-off type midwife that does not rely on LMP only for accurate dating. Try to find someone who trusts you and your body to make the best decisions for when your little one is ready to enter this world. My DEM from my last pregnancy had delivered babies that were supposedly 44 weeks but came out looking like your average full-term infant - so she knows that dates are just dates and babies are going to come when they are ready. Maybe check out the Finding Your Tribe forums and see if there is anyone more in tune with how you feel.

Also, if you want to avoid a medical induction, there are a lot of things you can do to stimulate labor once you reach your due date - frequent intercourse, nipple stimulation, EPO (which you can start any time after you reach term), etc...

If you don't want to get caught up in the conventional medical model of pregnancy, then you need to avoid those kinds of care providers.


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## Smokering (Sep 5, 2007)

I don't think it's fair to a HCP to give her inaccurate information - and, as a PP said, it could backfire if you gave birth at nearly 39 weeks and your MW thought it was nearly 37. (In NZ 37 weeks is the earliest MWs are legally allowed to attend a homebirth - 36 weeks 6 days, you risk out.) A MW and her client should have mutual trust; if you trust her to assist in the delivery of your baby, possibly even to save your lives if something went wrong, it seems only fair to trust her enough to tell her the truth about your pregnancy. I think if I were a MW and had developed a trusting, close relationship with a client, I'd be pretty hurt and aggrieved if she told me "I've just gone into labour, but I'm not really early - I lied to you about my dates before". You know?

I think it's perfectly reasonable to interview a bunch of MWs, though, and say straight out what you said here: "I will not be induced again, I refuse" (making it clear that you mean "for no good reason", not "under any circumstances", as I assume is the case!). If you're particularly paranoid you could even get it in writing from the MW: "I understand that filiadeluna does not wish to be induced based on post-term dates without medical indication; I agree to this and accept her as a client regardless", or something along those lines. Find the right MW and she won't be "the enemy", so hopefully you won't feel the need or inclination to be dishonest with her.


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

No, I don't think that's fair, and unless you're also going to refuse u/s completely, no matter what happens, you might very well be found out anyway.

I like smokering's advice. That is what I would do. Actually, I offered to sign something for the doctor who was "overseeing" my birth once I passed the limits to deliver at the birth center. She admitted her fears were based on liability issues, and not on any real reason for me or the baby individually. She didn't give me any papers to sign, but she did shut up after that. lol I delivered two babies at 42 w 3 days.


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## ~~Sarah~~ (Nov 3, 2010)

Yes. I have in the past and would again if the situation called for it. Frankly one week or ten days difference is never going to make a care provider suspicious, but can give you a serious break at the end. I was transfered in labor with my first baby - I really believe that had the hospital known that I was more than ten days past my EDD I would have been treated differently. Frankly, I narrowly avoided a c/section and I'm convinced that my EDD lie was one of the things that saved me.

Many care providers believe that it is normal to go past 42 weeks, but have laws and protocols that get in the way of being able to practice in harmony with that belief. When you are looking for a care provider - ask about that too. Also, in a transfer situation - even if you have the most understanding mw, if you are "past dates" you may be treated like you are on fire.

Where I live there are entire communities that habitually lie to their doctors regarding LMP...


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## lovebeingamomma (Mar 16, 2007)

I wouldn't be comfortable seeing a midwife I felt I had to lie to. If I didn't want an NST, I would just tell them no thanks.


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## CBEmomma (Oct 24, 2010)

No I wouldn't lie.


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## AutumnAir (Jun 10, 2008)

Yup - I would and I did. Good thing too, since DD1 was born at 43+1 weeks and DD2 at 43+6 weeks. Very glad I did and in my situation it was definitely the best choice I could have made.


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## Full Heart (Apr 27, 2004)

From someone who has had 8 post dates babies (thats 8 babies past 42 weeks, yes I know insane) this is what I did. I tell my mws when I got pg and what my edd is. I do not let them tell me when I am due. If they ask when my lmp is I tell them 2 weeks before I ovulated. Think that solves my problem? NO WAY. I go to 42 weeks based on when I get pg, not my lmp. Every time. Heck, if I went by my lmp I would have had 46 week long pgs! Nope, I still go to 42 weeks and still have gotten risked out. Can they force you to induce? No, but they can drop you. And yes it happens, even with back up. Actually thats when its usually the worst because the mw can lose her back up and its just a nasty mess. (can you tell I have btdt?) Yes, I have lied but the mw knew I was lying, because she knew I would go late. Did not make a difference because I ended up being induced for PIH. Now, expecting my 9th, I have been very honest with my mws about my edd. I am due on Saturday. Given what happened last time I wanted to be able to get BPPs done at the end so I could keep track of how the baby was doing (The baby was not moving and I didn't realize it was as bad as it was and my placenta calcified very rapidly right at the end. It went from a few spots 6 days past edd to almost completely calcified 16 days past my edd). I found a mw, which is possible even given the laws, that would take me with my history knowing I won't induce based on dates alone. I can get my bpps if I want/need them, but I can also go to 42+ weeks without being dropped. So would I lie? Yes, does it help? Not usually. The best thing you can do is find someone to support you even if you do go past 42 weeks.


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## BetsyS (Nov 8, 2004)

I did with my last pregnancy.

I knew that I was facing a likely repeat c-section at 39 weeks (39 weeks being the standard where I am for elective repeats), because I'd had 2 previous c-sections. I'd gone 41 and 42 weeks prior, so I did NOT want a 39 week baby.

I added 10 days to my LMP, delivered at 39 weeks according to them, at what was in reality 40+3. Everything was fine.

Next time, I'll do the same, knowing that I'm again facing a repeat c-section at whatever they consider 39 weeks.


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## Comtessa (Sep 16, 2008)

I'm with FullHeart; I don't ever let my HCP's tell me when I am due. When they whisk out the Wheel of Destiny and ask for my LMP, I simply say, "my due date is ______." If they push for an LMP, I smile blandly and repeat, "my due date is _______." After a while, they give up, or if they really need an LMP for paperwork, they count backwards from the date I give them.

DD was born one day before her EDD as I calculated it, but if I'd gone by LMP she would have been 42 weeks. According to the pediatrician who saw her the day she was born, her gestational age was exactly 40 weeks. If I'd allowed them to calculate my EDD for me, I would have ended up with an induction for sure; my OB was pretty touchy about any patient going past 41 weeks.


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## mrsberman (May 7, 2010)

I don't think I could lie, but my MW told me that if I were to ever go to a hospital or somewhere that she wasn't, then to tell them my last lmp was xx/xx date. Like others, my cycle is longer than the typical 28 day cycle and the computer systems in the hospitals around here do not recognize the longer cycle. I guess to avoid confusion telling a white lie isn't that big of a deal.


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## erigeron (Oct 29, 2010)

As far as I'm concerned, the purpose of giving an LMP is to calculate a due date. I knew my ovulation date so I gave them the LMP date that gave the same due date as my ovulation date. I don't consider this dishonest because I gave them the most accurate data available. And the only reason I did this was because I told the MA taking my history that I knew my ovulation date and she kept insisting on getting my LMP date, so finally I told her "Well, you might as well write down XXX, even though that isn't accurate", and that's what she did. (I later switched practices.)


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## happyhippie (Apr 1, 2011)

How about this idea OP, why lie? Just stand up for your rights and steer clear of an induction. I was 42 weeks and made sure no one touched me. However, I was willing to just show up at the hospital ready to go if need be. You can do it! Your body, your rights.


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## AlexisT (May 6, 2007)

Sure, you can do that, but sometimes, that may be the difference between losing your care provider and not. In some places, midwives cannot care for patients past 42 weeks, or may have an agreement with an OB that prevents it.


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## redpajama (Jan 22, 2007)

I don't advocate lying to your midwife about your LMP, or anything else. If you are hiring her for her knowledge and her judgement, what purpose does it serve to impair both by giving her misinformation.

Also, it might come back to bite you, so to speak, if you go into labor early--when you are, say, 37 weeks pregnant and she believes you to be 35-36 weeks. In the practice I work in, that would risk you out for a home birth, and unnecessarily so, if you were lying about your LMP in the first place.

I think the best thing to do is to be honest with her about your LMP but also about your concerns. Most midwives I know would be very reasonable. She may be willing to to continue care beyond 41-42 weeks with a little extra monitoring of some sort, or she may just want to have a conversation with you to be sure you are aware of the statistics surrounding outcomes at 41, 42, 43 weeks.

Anyway, in my opinion, she is entitled to accurate information. If you won't give her that, don't hire her.


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## GOPLawyer (Mar 21, 2005)

If I could not not find a HCP that I trusted, I would consider it (of course, if I found such a person, I wouldn't have to lie). I certainly understand lying to a HCP due to our current medical model in the US. Mamas shouldn't have to lie but the fact is, Mamas are essentially not given a choice. Telling the truth isn't always the best choice. Long story short...had I lied to the doctors when in the hospital for PTL, my DD would likely not have been born at just 30 weeks.

Not everyone is comfortable lying to a HCP but for other Mamas, it's the best course of action. Go with your instincts, Mama!


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## Magali (Jun 8, 2007)

I would absolutely lie. I have 37 day cycles and most Dr.s refuse to take that into consideration when setting a "due date". If I ever get pg again I will lie about when my LMP was. My dd was born 2 weeks after her "due date". I did stand up for my rights and refuse induction.


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## Jaimee (Jun 7, 2007)

I've seen OB's, CNM's, and CPM's for prenatal care. At the OB they refused to listen to me about my conception date and only wanted my LMP. With my longer cycles, this would have been quite inaccurate, but I knew that I wasn't staying with them so I didn't care. If I had been staying with them, I would absolutely have subtracted 14 days from my conception date to come up with a fake LMP that gave me my correct due date.

With the CNM's they wanted my LMP, but did listen to me when insisted that I knew my conception date. It took a bit of explaining and demanding, but then they actually asked me which due date I wanted and I obviously picked the later one. The 20 week u/s gave me a slightly earlier due date and they asked if I wanted to switch dates. I, of course, kept choosing the latest date.

With the CPM I worked with last time, she just asked for my due date. She also would have been completely fine with me going past 42 weeks as long as everything continued to look good.

So I think the answer to your question depends greatly on the type of provider you choose. I don't think it's ever a problem to make up an LMP (by subtracting 2 weeks) if you're certain of your ovulation day. If you have to go with an OB or midwife practice that you know will induce you or risk you out for going late then I would definitely consider fudging by a week and then make sure you receive careful monitoring if you make it to that extra week. Standing up for your right not to be induced is great, but they can drop you from their practice and that means you'd end up in the ER to deliver or having a UC. You might be fine with either of these options or you might not be.


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## redpajama (Jan 22, 2007)

Just to clarify, I responded to the OP who (1) stated that she is planning on working with a home birth midwife during her next pregnancy and (2) did not mention longer-than-average cycles or even later-than-average ovulation, only that her first pregnancy went to 42 weeks (before being induced).

Giving an "LMP" date that is not technically true, but that is "accurate" within the 28-day-cycle model that most care providers employ (so, subtracting 14 days from your ovulation date, if you know it, or adding as many days as your cycle is over 28 days--for example, adding 6 days to your actual LMP if you have a 34 day cycle) is *not* the same, in my opinion, as giving an arbitrarily made-up LMP because your last pregnancy last longer than 40 weeks and you have a feeling it's going to happen again. In the first case, you are providing your care provider with the most accurate information (in terms of accurately dating the pregnancy), even if you have to give an untrue LMP to do it. (While I would like to think that an intelligent and reasonable care provider (OB, CNM, CPM or other) would listen and could comprehend that LMP does not always accurately determine a due date, I understand that that is not always the case.) In the second case, though, you are giving your care provider false information that will lead her/him to false conclusions, and may lead to less-than-optimal decisions being made about your care (transferring you to the hospital for a "preterm" birth that is actually not "preterm," for example). Most midwives I know are happy to let a pregnancy continue until its natural conclusion, assuming that everything is well, but knowing that a woman is 41, or 42, or 43 weeks when making decisions about how to care for her is pertinent, and a midwife should not be impaired by information you know to be false.

OP, I really think that if you explain your history to your midwife and explain your strong bias against induction, she will be reasonable--especially if you are *also* reasonable about perhaps being seen more frequently after, for example, 41 weeks. Or, for example, letting her listen for several minutes with the doppler (for reactivity and longer-term variability) after 41-42 weeks. (I don't know what her protocols are or what would be her comfortable--these are just a couple examples.)

Also, I would remind you that you have had ONE pregnancy. If you were to survey moms of 2, 3, 4, 5 or more, I bet you'd find a lot of women who had their babies at very different gestations from one pregnancy to the next. To be sure, some women tend to carry long than 40 weeks (I'm one!), but it is not a given that because your first baby came "later," your second will as well. We had a client whose first baby came prematurely at 33 weeks who was (understandably so!) very worried about preterm labor in her second. He was born at 42 weeks on the dot. I think her 3rd came within a couple days of its EDD. There's just no telling for sure when your baby will come.

Good luck--I'm hopeful and relatively confident that you can find a care provider reasonable enough to take your (accurate) information at make wise decisions with it.


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