# Why not night-wean?



## Queen of my Castle (Nov 11, 2005)

What is the logic behind avoiding night-weaning until a year? I've heard around the forums that 10 months is too young to night wean, for example, that it's best left until after a year. What is the reason for this, especially if the night-weaning is child-led, and the baby is healthy, happy, sleeps well and is of a good weight and obviously bright, and the bf continues well during the day, with no problems?
A


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Personally I don't advise *parent*-led nightweaning until 18 months or later.

Lots of babies DO self-nightwean before that. IMO that is not an issue.

Different babies have different needs.

I don't think parent-led nightweaning is appropriate at 10 months because:

many infants NEED that nutrition
at that age many babies nurse less during the day
nursing at night gets more milk and helps milk production
that is prime nursing-strike age

-Angela


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## Calidris (Apr 17, 2004)

I think it it were child led it would be OK. Many children aren't ready to give up night nursing at that age, and it would involve some amount of CIO type conditioning for the child to stop.

Apart from that, night time milk is supposed to be higher in fat thus important for brain development.


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## rzberrymom (Feb 10, 2005)

I'll give my take on it, but I'm sure the opinions vary quite a bit on this.

I found with my DD that night nursing was about so much more than hunger. And 12-18 months were a really difficult time for sleep for her--learning to walk, those terrible terrible molars and then the canines, separation anxiety was still in full swing, etc. So I was really happy that night nursing was able to help her through that. And I didn't think it was right to take away the most powerful calming tool JUST at the point when she was going through so many difficult challenges and developments.

I also felt that before 18 months, she couldn't really understand why she wasn't allowed to nurse at night--by 18 months, she could understand much better that it wasn't arbitrary and that mama just needed some more sleep. And before 18 months, she couldn't communicate with me very well, but then by 18 months she could tell me "mama, I need food" or "mama, I need water."

And I'm sure others will disagree with me on this, but I also would be a bit concerned about the babe weaning completely. We were doing GREAT with breastfeeding, but then once I nightweaned her, she weaned completely not long afterwards. In retrospect, I wish I had taken that into consideration a bit more.


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## Queen of my Castle (Nov 11, 2005)

Ok, that makes sense. As always, go by the old rule of follow your baby's needs. The problem is when parents deny their child night feedings in the interest of gaining sleep.
A


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## Queen of my Castle (Nov 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rzberrymom* 
And I'm sure others will disagree with me on this, but I also would be a bit concerned about the babe weaning completely. We were doing GREAT with breastfeeding, but then once I nightweaned her, she weaned completely not long afterwards. In retrospect, I wish I had taken that into consideration a bit more.

I suppose this is individual, I nursed for 12 months after ds was nightweaned. Also, I found I could go for a long, long time only nursing 1 a day.
A


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rzberrymom* 
I'll give my take on it, but I'm sure the opinions vary quite a bit on this.

I found with my DD that night nursing was about so much more than hunger. And 12-18 months were a really difficult time for sleep for her--learning to walk, those terrible terrible molars and then the canines, separation anxiety was still in full swing, etc. So I was really happy that night nursing was able to help her through that. And I didn't think it was right to take away the most powerful calming tool JUST at the point when she was going through so many difficult challenges and developments.

I also felt that before 18 months, she couldn't really understand why she wasn't allowed to nurse at night--by 18 months, she could understand much better that it wasn't arbitrary and that mama just needed some more sleep. And before 18 months, she couldn't communicate with me very well, but then by 18 months she could tell me "mama, I need food" or "mama, I need water."

And I'm sure others will disagree with me on this, but I also would be a bit concerned about the babe weaning completely. We were doing GREAT with breastfeeding, but then once I nightweaned her, she weaned completely not long afterwards. In retrospect, I wish I had taken that into consideration a bit more.


All very good points. I agree, weaning should wait until the child can understand and communicate.

You're right that complete weaning CAN come from nightweaning. I've actually heard of that happening quite a bit.

-Angela


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Queen of my Castle* 
I suppose this is individual, I nursed for 12 months after ds was nightweaned. Also, I found I could go for a long, long time only nursing 1 a day.
A

Dd was never "nightweaned" as I have never denied her nursing at night. But she went through several stretches of sleeping through the night from the very beginning.

And she's still nursing now and will be 3 in August.

-Angela


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## Al Dente (Jan 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Dd was never "nightweaned" as I have never denied her nursing at night. But she went through several stretches of sleeping through the night from the very beginning.

And she's still nursing now and will be 3 in August.

-Angela


And I nightweaned ds at 27 mos and he nursed strong until we weaned about 2 weeks ago, at 38 mos.


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## rzberrymom (Feb 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Queen of my Castle* 
I suppose this is individual, I nursed for 12 months after ds was nightweaned. Also, I found I could go for a long, long time only nursing 1 a day.
A

Yes, definitely. I wasn't saying it was a necessary connection, but rather something worth considering.


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

This is from LLL: _Suggesting that mothers refrain from night breastfeeding, when many babies receive 30% or more of their daily calories, is counter productive to breastfeeding and to the mother-baby bond._


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## Peony (Nov 27, 2003)

For me, I have what makes my baby happy, why would I deny them that? My baby is waking up for a reason, I don't know what in going through their mind, body, etc... all I can do is provide them with what they need.

My DD1 wasn't ready to stop nursing at night until she was 3y, and she was a very frequent night waker. My DD2 is almost 8 months and only wakes up 3-5 times a night, it feels like such a break after DD1.


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

DS2 did the bulk of his nursing at night. I couldn't imagine being able to night wean him without fully weaning him and I couldn't see weaning him if I didn't get an overnight job. I weaned him at 24 months.


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## arlecchina (Jul 25, 2006)

personally i dont need facts .. if my baby didnt need it he would stop.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnysideup* 
This is from LLL: _Suggesting that mothers refrain from night breastfeeding, when many babies receive 30% or more of their daily calories, is counter productive to breastfeeding and to the mother-baby bond._











-Angela


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## sparklefairy (May 21, 2005)

I would not nightwean while we were getting the benefit of LAM.

And I say "we" because it's a benefit to everyone in the family, not just mom!


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## *mama moose* (Oct 12, 2006)

I agree with the pervious points!
Also, maybe I'm just lazy







, but nightweaning just seems like WAY too much work, especially if you don't do CIO. There are a few moms on my more mainstream board nightweaning their 10-11 month babes, and it just seems like a TON of work to try to get them to sleep w/o nursing. I do have nights where all DD wants to do is nurse and it makes me feel







:, but when I try to think about what I would do INSTEAD of nursing her, it makes me tired to even think about


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## annewiz (May 15, 2007)

IMHO, it just depends on the baby and the mama.

I just recently nightweaned using Dr. Jay Gordon's plan. My boy will be a year old in a week and a half. Up until about a month ago, his night feedings were obviously necessary for nutrition and soothing, but recently it appeared that it was more habitual than any other kind of need. He'd not even wake up fully, nurse for less than 2 minutes, and then he'd be back asleep and I'd be awake.

I decided to try the Dr. Jay thing and it was so easy. We did not even complete the full program because he was sleeping through before we were even done with it. Now I feed him somewhere between 10:30-11:00 p.m. (when I go to bed) and feed him again when he wakes up between 5:30-6:30. If he wakes up in between there, I hug him and snuggle for a minute, and he goes right back to sleep. But most often he does not wake up at all, and he is more rested and naps better during the day.

I noticed a slight drop in what I could pump at work initially, but my supply recovered in a few days.

I'm not saying it would work this way for anyone else, or that anyone should or shouldn't do it...just sharing our experience.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *arlecchina* 
personally i dont need facts .. if my baby didnt need it he would stop.









: I plan to not encourage day or night weaning. It is, IMO, as simple as the above. When she no longer needs it, she'll stop. That means both nutritional & emotional needs.


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## Mama Poot (Jun 12, 2006)

Henri is 10 months old and we recently ended co-sleeping. Ongoing chronic back issues and pain, and the fact a queen sized bed is not big enough for everyone forced us to make the transition. Henri actually sleeps better now, and he would often nurse just to nurse because the boob was right there. He still wakes sometimes in the night, and I just go in and nurse him, then go back to sleep and he is fine with this. He will sleep through the night sometimes, other nights he'll wake up 2-3 times. I just go with it, especially if he's teething. I wouldn't dream of nightweaning him right now!


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## Queen of my Castle (Nov 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 







: I plan to not encourage day or night weaning. It is, IMO, as simple as the above. When she no longer needs it, she'll stop. That means both nutritional & emotional needs.

So I am to assume that becuase my dd has stopped waking up at night, that she no longer needs it? She's very young, but she's been sleeping consistantly for several weeks now. She's also very healthy, she's more than thriving, she's huge. Of course, if she started waking up again, I would feed her. I am not going to wake her though, and I don't feel I've done anything to encourage the night-weaning. I was curious, however what the reasoning was to this perspective. I will of course, do whatever my baby indicates she needs.
A


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## hanno (Oct 4, 2006)

My little guy is starting to 'nightwean' himself. He'll go for 7-8 hour stretches and I gotta say I don't love it because it makes me really engorged and then I soak the bed. One time he snuggled up to me and I tried to offer him a breast and he pursed his little lips and shook his head. I felt horrible because he just wanted to cuddle with me! I get the point now though. I REALLY don't want my period to start and engorgement hurts, but if he wanted it, it's right there and he knows that.
eta- he also doesn't pee at this time and then when he wakes up, he nurses and pee and is ready to start the day.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Queen of my Castle* 
So I am to assume that becuase my dd has stopped waking up at night, that she no longer needs it? She's very young, but she's been sleeping consistantly for several weeks now. She's also very healthy, she's more than thriving, she's huge. Of course, if she started waking up again, I would feed her. I am not going to wake her though, and I don't feel I've done anything to encourage the night-weaning. I was curious, however what the reasoning was to this perspective. I will of course, do whatever my baby indicates she needs.
A

I am of the mindset that sleeping babies should be left to sleep! Unless there's an issue. So if babe is sleeping through - they clearly don't need nursing, that night and every other sleeping through night. They may later need to night nurse again though. My 15 month old sleeps through for periods of time but nowadays she nurses about 2-3 times per night. As long as you're willing to nurse if she asks I think it's fine. Enjoy the sleep!


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Queen of my Castle* 
So I am to assume that becuase my dd has stopped waking up at night, that she no longer needs it? She's very young, but she's been sleeping consistantly for several weeks now. She's also very healthy, she's more than thriving, she's huge. Of course, if she started waking up again, I would feed her. I am not going to wake her though, and I don't feel I've done anything to encourage the night-weaning. I was curious, however what the reasoning was to this perspective. I will of course, do whatever my baby indicates she needs.
A

I would assume that right NOW she doesn't need it. But her needs may change 20 more times over the next two years.

I NEVER woke dd. She slept through much of the time from the beginning.

-Angela


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## GracesMama (Oct 24, 2006)

I see no problem with child-led nighttime weaning, especially with a 10 month old.


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

Of course if it's child-led it's fine. You would be certifiable to be waking up a *healthy* child over three months to feed them at night. Totally insane.

Unless you have a doctor telling you this child needs to cram in the calories (and more than just being slight, I'm thinking serious illness), then let the kid sleep, praise the high heavens and SLEEP YOURSELF! Congratualtions! I hope this phase lasts a good long time for you.

Night-weaning is when the *parent* decides to not nurse the child when they awaken. I actually don't have a problem at all with very very VERY gentle alternatives to nursing being tried, but if the baby needs to nurse, they need to nurse!


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## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

I guess I'm in the minority here but I don't have a problem with parent led nightweaning for a period (maybe 5 hours) as long as the baby doesn't resist TOO much. I think if nursing is getting in the way of everyone's sleep then there is nothing wrong with trying to adjust it.

Now - I nurse my son every couple of hours throughout the night. it works for us. It helps him sleep and doesn't disturb me much. But I read many posts on here where people have to get up to feed.. or can't sleep well while nursing or whatever. Is it really optimal to support that for 18 mos?







Many of you would say yes but I don't agree.


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Dr. Jay Gordon strongly discourages parents from night weaning a baby under 12 months of age. I think there are good reasons to agree with him. As he says, "babies do better when we answer all their questions as best we can, and meet their needs as best we can." Just like I believe that a child will eventually wean when they outgrow the need to nurse, I think a child will night wean when they outgrow the need to nurse at night.


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## prettymom (Feb 23, 2007)

No way am I going to jinx myself by messing with the cure-all.


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## Manfa (May 27, 2007)

For a few weeks nows DS has been waking at night to feed, but only feeding for a couple of minutes and then droping right back to sleep. At first, when this had happened for several nights I thought perhaps he was waking more out of habit than hunger. So when he woke I tried cuddling him and offering him his dummy. No joy. So he went straight back to waking each night for a few minutes and he still does it now. Sometime soon I'll try just offering him a cuddle again and if he goes with it; fine. If not, thats fine too.

I thought I was against NW, but is that considered NW? Thinking abt sleep cycles and I can't help thinking that waking at a "bad" time in your sleep cycle is like cutting hours off your sleep. Weigh that against the minimal amount of breast milk he is getting at that time and I cant help but think that, for us, NW (that is, encouraging him to go without night-milk but definately not denying him it if he really needs it) could actually be beneficial to him and me..... ??????


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manfa* 
For a few weeks nows DS has been waking at night to feed, but only feeding for a couple of minutes and then droping right back to sleep. At first, when this had happened for several nights I thought perhaps he was waking more out of habit than hunger. So when he woke I tried cuddling him and offering him his dummy. No joy. So he went straight back to waking each night for a few minutes and he still does it now. Sometime soon I'll try just offering him a cuddle again and if he goes with it; fine. If not, thats fine too.

I thought I was against NW, but is that considered NW? Thinking abt sleep cycles and I can't help thinking that waking at a "bad" time in your sleep cycle is like cutting hours off your sleep. Weigh that against the minimal amount of breast milk he is getting at that time and I cant help but think that, for us, NW (that is, encouraging him to go without night-milk but definately not denying him it if he really needs it) could actually be beneficial to him and me..... ??????

Well if he won't take his pacifier or go down for cuddling, exactly how do you think you would night wean?

-Angela


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## dillonandmarasmom (May 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Calidris* 
I think it it were child led it would be OK. Many children aren't ready to give up night nursing at that age, and it would involve some amount of CIO type conditioning for the child to stop.

Apart from that, night time milk is supposed to be higher in fat thus important for brain development.

Yep. I can't imagine DD wanting to night wean anytime soon. She loves her snuggles and mommy milk at bedtime and still wakes in the early AM to the snooze button (my boob







). I am thinking that night time will be last on her list (CLWing, though).


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## Nan'sMom (May 23, 2005)

If it is child led then fine--i.e., if they are sleeping and not asking to nurse at night, then don't wake them up, I'd say. But if they wake and want to nurse, why deny them if it's possible to nurse? For one thing, it's easier than getting up to make food or get a drink for them--if you co-sleep, you just roll over, nurse and everyone falls back asleep again.


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## snt88 (May 9, 2007)

I agree that child-led is different than parent-led.

BUT I also think that you can help you child to sleep longer without needing to nurse. This isn't the same as "denying" night-nursing.


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## finn'smama (Jan 11, 2006)

nak
i wouldn't nw under ayear because it's the main source of nutrition for at least that long and if they're waking to nurse, they likely need it, imo. Ds2 has also been sleeping really long stretches (10 hours the other night!







: ) but i really don't expect it to last for more than afew months and i don't consider him "night weaned".
That said, i did nw ds1 when he was around 15 mo. i was pg and just wasn't getting rest and it was really really *really* irritating me. before the pregnancy though, it never bothered me and i always felt well rested. it went really smoothly and he seemed ready. if he hadn't i wouldn't have pushed for it. that was almost ayear ago and he still nursing during the day as often as i will let him (if I nursed him whenever he wanted I'd be constantly nursing someone all friggin day...).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snt88* 
I agree that child-led is different than parent-led.

BUT I also think that you can help you child to sleep longer without needing to nurse. This isn't the same as "denying" night-nursing.

I agree...when I nw ds1 I would offer cuddles and water and if he didn't accept that I would nurse him. Eventually he would take the snuggling and drift back to sleep. As I said though, he seemed ready, because it was so easy for both of us.
Anika

eta this wasn't an overnight process, it took a few months.


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## gethane (Dec 30, 2003)

All 5 of mine seemed to naturally start to sleep through the night around 18 months, some earlier, some later, but it really was quite a clear line from needing more night time care, including lots of night nursing/feeding, and after (sadly, didn't breastfeed my first 3 that long, but they still wanted bottles up to 18 monthsish). My youngest is now a few weeks away from 18 months and I'm getting so much more sleep! She's still nursing when I go to bed, and around 5 amish, but sometimes its just to reassure herself its there, and she rolls over away from me and goes back to sleep.


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## nina_yyc (Nov 5, 2006)

Quote:

Apart from that, night time milk is supposed to be higher in fat thus important for brain development.
Cleary, my baby is going to be a genius







:


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