# Let's talk about pf's



## TypicalSituation (Jan 18, 2006)

Am I the only one on this board who uses only pre-folds? It sure seems like everyone is using fitteds or pockets. I only have 2 happy hempy's and I rarely use them. I am not so fond of pockets plus I don't really have that in my budget.

So, I thought maybe we could have just a pre-fold discussion. What are your fav. prefolds? What are your favorite folds? Any links to good folds? Snappi's or pins? Natural or bleached? Indian or chinese? Why do you like pfs?

I have thirsties unbleached cpf's from babycottonbottoms.com. I am pleased with them. I would like to maybe get some tie-dyed but don't know where to get them. (spam me). I only know 2 folds... newspaper and bikini twist. I use Snappi's for my baby, but I pin my son's because snappi's don't hold him well. Give me some good links for folding.

Sorry if this seems like a dumb post. I am just bored.


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## Mama~Love (Dec 8, 2003)

Another prefold lover here!! And it's not a dumb post. I love my unbleached Indian PF's







. I love my angel wing/sidewall fold with pins. I think I PM'ed you a couple of pics. I just love how versatile they are; you can experiment with different folds, and snappi or pin or lay them in a cover. I also love the classic pinned prefold look on my DD. I think it's just so cute







!

http://www.angelfire.com/id/megnkatesplace/folds.html

http://www.diaperco.com/side_wall_fold.htm


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## sweetangelbrynlie (Jun 23, 2005)

I love prefolds. I think their the greatest diaper out there. With a good cover they never leak, and they look sooo cute on baby folded cute.

And they wash well too. They are the BEST!


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## akmeg (May 4, 2004)

We love prefolds too! I like how they last and last. A lot of fitteds that I've used for almost 3 years now have worn little holes along the elastic and sewn edges, but my pfs look great, they're softer than ever! I use plain white CPFs, but I really want to try the indian pfs, they sound so soft and fluffy!


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## imgr8ful (Feb 25, 2005)

i







prefolds!!!

both babes (22 mo toddler and 6 mo babe) are in snappi'ed, bikini twisted, coverless prefolds 90% of the time at home.

i have a mix of chinese and indian, regular and premium, all unbleached and dyed or tie-dyed. a couple toddlers too.

i dyed some of them and got the rest of the tp. here are some sites that do tie-dye...

http://www.tyedyedreams.com/store/Default.asp
http://tinyheiny.com/
http://www.kelleyskreations.biz/store/Default.asp


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## vintagegreen (Dec 28, 2005)

I am addicted to prefolds







I love that they are soft and versatile and so far we've never had a stain. Mind you I've only been cding my ds for a few months now.

I almost always do the twist fold, why fix what isn't broken ya know. I am finally feeling the snappi love too.

We have been using white cpf's from cottonbabies but I just got some unbleached ipf's from abbyslane and am in love...they are sooooooo soft!

I'd love to do only pf's...if only I could convince dh.


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## Headymama (Feb 17, 2005)

I am also a pf lover. I like Indian pfs the best, but at this point the ones I'm using have all been purchased used from the TP, so I gots what I could find!

I never got the hang of pins, so we just use snappis. And I only use one fold too...I think it's the angel wing fold.

I do have a bunch of nice fitteds and some FBs (nighttime). I like to take the fitteds with me when I'm out and about in case anyone asks me about them.


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## TypicalSituation (Jan 18, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *teddybearmom*
I think I PM'ed you a couple of pics.

I didn't get any?

I have been using cpf's for 2 1/2 yrs now but have never had any ipf's. I feel silly for asking but, what's the difference? Better quality?

I learned lots from those links teddybearmom! Awesome. I gotta try that jellyroll fold so I can keep the poop off of my natural colored wool covers! I am so excited. Thanks for those. Oooh and those tie dyed pf from kellyscreations are awesome! Gotta get me some of those for this summer.


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## cozymama (Apr 27, 2004)

since y'all are the prefold queens




























..........can i ask a question??

i am planning on using prefolds as my only (or mostly-only) store-bought dipe, with the rest being handmade by me. right now i have a dozen infant sized and would like to get a dozen more-- should i get infant or regular? at what age did you find you could use regular ones? at what age did your little ones outgrow infant pfs (if you used them)? i can't make up my mind about the sizing since i have never cd'd a baby before!

much appreciation!


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## TypicalSituation (Jan 18, 2006)

Hiya and that's great that you are making the big dive into cding. My 4 month old outgrew her infant cpf's at about 10 lbs. She was 2 months old. I could still use them if I *REALLY* had to but I don't know that they would hold much. They are still useful though. I use them as doublers for night sometimes. Usually burp cloths though. I would probably get regular. You can still use them. It may be a little bulky but it would work. I only have a dozen infant sized and when she would run out I would throw one of the big ones on her. It sure looked funny though.


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## Sophiasmomma (Jun 16, 2004)

pfs are my favorites right now







I love the tri fold into a cover and the bikini twist too







.. My favs are indian premium size they seem to stay aloy softer thsn reg pfs for us w/ hard water


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## Shaunam (Oct 8, 2004)

I love trying out new diapers and I love making my DS cute pockets, but I always end up using prefolds! You just can't beat the absorbancy. I recently trimmed all of my prefolds so they would fit better. Now I just tri-fold them in a bummis wrap and I don't have to worry about folding down the excess material. They fit sooo much better and they are so much trimmer. My DS was about to outgrow the mediums, but now he has more room to grow before he needs the next size. If you like to tri-fold but don't like the bulk from the extra material, I highly recommend trimming them. I trimmed them so they *just* fit in a medium bummis, that way, when he moves up a size, they will still fit nicely in the cover. Oh, and they work better for pocket-stuffing too. This is where I got the idea and the instructions:

http://www.diaperpages.com/trimming_pf.php

Anyways, I like unbleached. I like both cpf and ipf. I didn't trim my ipf's because they are smaller, but I embellished all of them with scrap fabric. We have clifford prefolds, spiderman prefolds, looney tunes prefolds.







It's a lot of fun.

For my untrimmed prefolds, I do the bikini twist fold and pins.

cozymama, It depends on how fast your baby grows. My chunker only fit in them until about 3 months, and then it was a stretch because he was 18 lbs (the pins were hanging on for dear life). I have a friend who was using them on her 1 and 2 year olds. They were little-bitty things, obviously. She liked premiums for the absorbancy, but could easily pin infant-sized on both her girls. I personally never liked the regular size. It only has 6 layers in the middle and it was never enough. I went straight to premiums after infant, and yeah they were bulky for awhile, but DS didn't mind at all. You just fold down the excess fabric before pinning or snappi-ing, or trim them down. To answer your question, yes, I would buy a dozen more, unless you plan on making plenty. If you have an adequate stash of home-made dipes, then no, I wouldn't.


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## hillymum (May 15, 2003)

I'm not a prefold fan (still learning how to fold and loving pockets too much) but thought you should check out Funky Munky Fluff Designs. She has some really nice tie dyed prefolds, and some great bargains!


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## heathenmom (Mar 9, 2005)

CPFs make up the biggest part of our stash and I







them! My mom keeps dd while I'm at work ... she bikini-twists & snappis, with either wool or homemade fleece covers. I newspaper-fold with snappis (sometimes pins) and usually leave her coverless around the house. Mom just laughs at my "fancy" fold and says she can't figure it out.







I'm just thrilled that she was so agreeable with cd'ing. Of course, she used pfs on all of us, so it wasn't a big deal to her. She's the ONLY one in the family who didn't think I was nuts to cd.

I've been struggling with leakage with my 2 "nighttime" dipes and someone here suggested I double-dipe dd with 2 pfs under wool .... it was our first dry-sheet night in weeks! YAY pfs!!!


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## Slabobbin (Jan 29, 2004)

I have a mix of pockets and prefolds. I use the pockets when we are going somewhere and at night and have started using the prefolds during the day at home.

I'm just going through a stage where I like the prefolds better - I'm not sure why but I go through stages.









I didn't realize there were all of these different folds though. Does anyone have a link to the different folds? And are the folds just for the flat diapers or for the Chinese prefolds as well?


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## cozymama (Apr 27, 2004)

Thank you all so much for the help! I think I am just going to get some regular sized ones, and use homemade stuff to roundout my stash during the newborn days. It'll be summer when this one comes anyway, so I'm thinking just a t-shirt and dipe anyway, a little extra poochie in the tush won't matter









I love practicing the folds....ok, mostly on my son's stuffed animals, but hey, gotta start somewhere, right?!


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## susieinms (Aug 11, 2005)

TINY BIRDS ORGANIC COLORGROWN PREFOLDS!!!!!






















These are my absolute favorite!!!
http://www.tinybirdsorganics.com/org...h-diapers.html
These are brown organic cotton (not dyed), and are the softest prefold I have ever felt....they are even softer than Indian Prefolds if you can believe that!!! I had to wash them a bazillion times to get the oils out, but they are FANTASTIC!!!!

I use the anglewing fold. And I love my dritz pins.

What I love about prefolds is that they don't leave red marks and they always fit....maybe a little bulky at some stages, but you don't have to worry about it not being wide enough at the waist, the rise being high enough, is the elastic on the legs tight enough, loose enough, etc, etc. You just fold them to fit YOUR baby.


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## Mama~Love (Dec 8, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TypicalSituation*
I didn't get any?

I have been using cpf's for 2 1/2 yrs now but have never had any ipf's. I feel silly for asking but, what's the difference? Better quality?

I learned lots from those links teddybearmom! Awesome. I gotta try that jellyroll fold so I can keep the poop off of my natural colored wool covers! I am so excited. Thanks for those. Oooh and those tie dyed pf from kellyscreations are awesome! Gotta get me some of those for this summer.









Sorry, your siggy looked familiar, and I thought I sent you some. I can if you would like.

IPF's are so much softer than CPF's. I started with CPF's, and sold them all off to buy IPF's. Now I'm going to try a couple of those Tiny Bird Organics susieinms posted!!


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## mihrimah (Jan 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cozymama*
since y'all are the prefold queens




























..........can i ask a question??

i am planning on using prefolds as my only (or mostly-only) store-bought dipe, with the rest being handmade by me. right now i have a dozen infant sized and would like to get a dozen more-- should i get infant or regular? at what age did you find you could use regular ones? at what age did your little ones outgrow infant pfs (if you used them)? i can't make up my mind about the sizing since i have never cd'd a baby before!

much appreciation!









My DD is still in the infant size and she's 5 mos! If I were you, I would want at least 2 dozen- newborns poo a lot more than older babies, so keep that in mind. We just fold them in thirds and lay them in the wrap, and I tried them out in the different sizes and the infant size fits into the medium diaperaps, up to 21 lbs. She's only 14- so lay them in your covers and see how far they'll fit- if you have larger covers already that is!


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## ZeldasMom (Sep 25, 2004)

*What are your fav. prefolds?*
-We are using a diaper service. This is just a guess, but I think they are Gerber DSQ prefolds. If I were washing my own I would choose something else, but these work fine (I double diaper at night with a prefold folded along the prefolds). Actually, I think people (and I am including myself here) can get a little too perfectionistic about their diapers. It feels good to let go of that.

*What are your favorite folds?*
-newspaper (DS) and bikini twist (DD). I used to be really into jellyroll /sidewall, but I think if you get the diaper on nice and snug (especially through the rise) these work as well.

*Snappi's or pins? Natural or bleached? Indian or chinese?*
-Snappies.
-I prefer unbleached products whenever possible for environmental reasons
-organic/fairly-traded is important to me

*Why do you like pfs?*
-I think some people don't like prefolds because there is a learning curve. This is why I didn't start out with them and went with pockets initially. The thing is though, there are so many things in life that take some figuring out that are totally worth doing (breastfeeding, midwifery, gardening, tieing a wrap, knitting, etc.), that this in itself shouldn't be a reason to write off prefolds. My experience has been that the idea of using prefolds was more challenging than the reality.

I like that they are multi-use--a prefold can be used for so much more than just as a diaper.

I like that my 5mo and my 2 1/2 year old can wear the same diapers.

If I were washing my own I would like that they are easy to wash/dry.

Prefolds are more affordable than many other diapering options, which is good for CD advocacy. And for advocacy purposes, I think it's important that we CD keep information and support available and accessible. That is one reason I am so happy there are resources out there like MDC!!!


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## anniegirl (May 17, 2005)

I love pfs too! I always go back to them. Oh, I dabbled with a few fuzzibunz, sewed my own pocket dipes and some AIOs. I even turned some of my beloved pfs into fitteds. But here I am back to the classic pinned pfs. I've only used cpfs but am waiting on ipfs from granitesmith on ebay. I'm so excited I can hardly stand it!


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## Alkenny (May 4, 2004)

I ended up getting rid of all of my fitteds and AIO's. We use trifolded prefolds and Bummis wraps exclusively. I do have a couple of Motherease AF's and Snappi his dipes once in awhile, but nothing beats the trifold and Bummi IMO.


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## ish (Apr 9, 2005)

I love prefolds, but nobody else that diapers ds does. I really love using them durring the summer when I can let ds run around coverless outside.

We have at least 1 dozen DSQ chinese prefolds in each size, most of them are tie-dyed. My favorite fold is the newspaper, and I love snappis!

I like prefolds because they are the least expensive way to get into cding, and also require the least amount of money to upkeep. Prefolds are really versatile, easy to clean and to dry. My family just prefers fitteds more.


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## jodi5 (Mar 6, 2006)

I really like prefolds as well. I am with Shaunam, I have trimmed my prefolds as well as shown on the website, actually my mom did it. I too tried to make them as long as possible but still fit the medium cover. It is so much easier and they seem to stay trifolded better too (I trifold ahead of time).


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## BCmamaof6 (Sep 7, 2004)

Another PF lover here!
Thanks for the link to Tiny Birds. I had to order one of each kind to try out for the babe's stash.


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## ZeldasMom (Sep 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ish*
I like prefolds because they are the least expensive way to get into cding, and also require the least amount of money to upkeep. Prefolds are really versatile, easy to clean and to dry. My family just prefers fitteds more.

There is one teacher at my son's preschool who isn't good with snappies. I always make sure I send a velcro cover like a BSWW, and that way she can just skip the snappi. My MIL loves BSWW. She cloth diapered 2 kids in cloth diapers at the same time while living in Mexico and had to wash her diapers by hand. She is amazed at how far cloth diaper paraphenalia has come and says if velcro covers had been around when she was diapering it would have been a lot easier for her.


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## strollernut (Feb 9, 2006)

We use prefolds too, but more flats...I have tons of fitteds, but I love flats and prefolds for 'air' time







We use snappis, but that's becoming a problem as my son gets more active. I also have Playskool diaper clips that work great...I still haven't become proficient with the pins


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## teacup (Nov 12, 2005)

Hi. My name is teacup and I am a diapering dumbarse. A prefold nincompoop, if you will. I JUST realized that my 13-month-old daughter is still in infant-size PFs. Is that nutty? They are still so high on her rise. I know some people trim them, but still.

Maybe if I get premiums I can Snappi successfully. You should have seen me wrestling it, her, and the barely-wrapping-around-her-waist diaper.


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## teacup (Nov 12, 2005)

Tell me more about the diaper clip! Now that's something an uncoordinated mama could get into.


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## sarajane (Oct 20, 2004)

I too love pre-fold diapers. At this point my whole stash is made up of DSQ unbleached pre-folds and IPF save for 3 pocket diapers for outings (which I really want to sell). I feel really dumb for spending all that cash and time trying and shopping for fitteds and pockets when I end up loving pre-folds so much. And now I am also part time EC'ing so I'm like....I could of saved all that $$ from the pockets and fitteds for sure, I really didn't need them. What a bummer!

My fave is the bikini twist fastened with a snappi and covered with a nylon pull up pant and maybe a fleece liner for at night. I really love cloth diapering so much that I am having a hard time trying to switch to EC hence the part time....I really want to try it....I do....but........what would I do with all my pre-folds??


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## ZeldasMom (Sep 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *teacup*
Hi. My name is teacup and I am a diapering dumbarse. A prefold nincompoop, if you will. I JUST realized that my 13-month-old daughter is still in infant-size PFs. Is that nutty? They are still so high on her rise. I know some people trim them, but still.

Maybe if I get premiums I can Snappi successfully. You should have seen me wrestling it, her, and the barely-wrapping-around-her-waist diaper.

Wow--I am your diapering polar opposite! I switched DD to premiums when she was 12 or 13 pounds. If you fold the diaper down in the back before putting it on the baby you can make the rise fit your child.

Snappis work just like an ace bandage. They are cheap, so even if they don't work for you it's not a huge risk to give them a try. Good Luck!


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## anniegirl (May 17, 2005)

i got my ipfs yesterday, washed them up and put one on ds1 just a bit ago.







holy cow, i can't believe how easy it is to get pins through! they slide through like butter, it's amazing. and they're soooo soft! i've only used cpfs previously and some of them are getting quite worn and soft so i really wasn't expecting such a difference. it's MUCH harder to get pins through cpfs. so if you're feeling pin deficient try some ipfs from granitesmith on ebay!


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## TypicalSituation (Jan 18, 2006)

Oh, another good way to get pins through if you have cpf's is to run the pin along your face. The oils on your skin help it go through.


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## Slabobbin (Jan 29, 2004)

Does anyone have a link to the different ways to fold? I've never heard of all of these folds. How did you learn?


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## Attached Mama (Dec 4, 2005)

I like them becasue they are cheap!! I hate pins tho. Even after running the pin thru a bar of soap I could hardly get it thru her diapers. So we use velcro or snapped covers. *Is there a better pin then the ones walmart sells???*

I think how long you use newborn/infant prefolds depends on the size of the diaper. www.babyworks.com sells 2 sizes of birdseye and DD is just now switched to the larger size at 17 lbs. I still use the tiny ones tho - just double them. We have some bleached and some unbleached (they were out of all unbleached when I ordered.)

Only fold I know is trifold so going to go back and check out links.







thanks!!


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## teacup (Nov 12, 2005)

I lurve Karen's site. She has a bunch of good information, and her kids are so fricking cute.

http://diaperpages.com/


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## Mama~Love (Dec 8, 2003)

Attached Momma ~ try Dritz pins!! I got 3 pairs (6 total) from granitesmith off of ebay for $3.60 w/ shipping. Also, run the tips through your hair along your scalp to oil them up. Works wonderfully!!

Slabobbin ~ http://www.angelfire.com/id/megnkatesplace/folds.html

http://www.diaperco.com/side_wall_fold.htm


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## Momof3Girlz (Aug 18, 2002)

I'm so glad for this thread! I've been out of the cloth diapering loop for some time now, and am back pregnant with baby number 4 due in October. I have been trying to avoid cloth diapering boards because I didn't want to get myself caught back up in the obsession that I was in with my last two children. However, I know that I can't deprive my child of the comfort of cotton diapers just because I can't control myself, LOL...In all honesty I remember my prefolds and BSIWW and an Aristrocrats soaker being so simple and calming. However, for some reason I was drawn to buying up all the cute fitteds I could get my hands on! I would hardly use them. I'd mainly reach for my pf. Crazy, I know...

Anyhow this time around I'll be investing in 3 dozen Indian prefolds (unbleached) and an assortment of bummins covers and some wool thrown in for good measure









Thanks for this positive thread on prefolds!!!


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## JenMidwife (Oct 4, 2005)

So happy to see this thread! I'm pg w/ #1 & totally new to the CD world. After much research & advice from MDC mamas, my NB stash is going to be 90% PF & Bummis (for $$$ & simplicity sake), w/ a little wool, fitteds, & FBs to experiment w/.

A silly question- I know DSQ stands for diaper service quality. Are some PFs non-DSQ? Which is better?

Also, can you dye your own PFs? Can you dye white Bummis?


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

I too love prefolds.







They are the one dipe that has never let me down


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## MistyMM (Aug 7, 2003)

I love pf's too! they are our main diaper, we use them folded into a wool cover, no snappi or pins. We used to use only UBCPF's but I have become addicted to flannel prefolds. cute and SUPER absorbant, even though they are thinner! I LOVE THEM!!

hth








Misty


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## African Tulip (Mar 9, 2006)

I love prefold's.









I got a bunch of cpf's from ebay, they had gone through 3 kids prior to my use and looked almost brand new. I used my cpf's the most with my dd. I was even able to get my dh to use them once I got some snappis.

Not sure of the fold we used but it worked. Never had a leak with them, even over night.









Very sad we our diapering days were over.







She only wears fitted now at night as the prefolds don't fit anymore.


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## Nothingbutbreast (Dec 26, 2005)

I love prefolds They are the only diaper I'm attached to Lately it's all I use
I use indian regular trimmmed prefolds
I'm going to order some prem and toddlerprefolds soon I'm working at figureing out how to keep my DD dry at night whiel using wool when I figure it out We will eb a wool prefold loving family


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## MCPM (Jan 29, 2006)

So glad there are CDers out there who are keeping it cheap and simple.

Anyway...anyone have an answer to the dye question? I have some Rit sitting around. Is it safe/advisable?


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## anniegirl (May 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MCPM*
So glad there are CDers out there who are keeping it cheap and simple.

Anyway...anyone have an answer to the dye question? I have some Rit sitting around. Is it safe/advisable?

*Don't use Rit!!!!* I dyed some of my pfs purple with Rit. I *thought* I had rinsed out all the excess dye. Nope! All of my dipes and wipes are a lovely light lilac now, lol!

I re-dyed some of them orange using procion dye and they came out great. I washed out the excess dye with synthrapol detergent and they don't bleed at all even though they're very bright.

Here's a good thread about dying pfs: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=413968


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## littlemommy18 (Sep 17, 2004)

ok so i've been lurking this thread and i have a question. We are going to use all pf and bummis SWW but my dd rise is so short i was just going to use the 4x8x4 infant size and trifold them into the diaper. are the reg/prem thicker or more absorbant than that or are they the same?


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## Selesai (Oct 26, 2005)

I agree, this is a great thread.
I'm planning to start cding w/ prefolds and see what I like. What should I choose-- CPF or IPF? (I am thinking I'll go w/ unbleached because of the environmental impact of bleaching)
Thanks!


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## MCPM (Jan 29, 2006)

Thanks for the link, Anniegirl. I have a hell of a time w. the forum search engine...

I am wondering with the Rit, though...ok, it bleeds, but I was planning to do all the dipes the same color, so maybe it doesn't matter? I know it's better to do the whole serious thing, but...I am lazy.


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## MistyMM (Aug 7, 2003)

we use trifolded infants w/o a problem


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *littlemommy18*
ok so i've been lurking this thread and i have a question. We are going to use all pf and bummis SWW but my dd rise is so short i was just going to use the 4x8x4 infant size and trifold them into the diaper. are the reg/prem thicker or more absorbant than that or are they the same?

The premium is more absorbent because it's bigger. Not thicker, but longer and wider, so there's simply more cotton to absorb the wee.

We started having terrible absorbency issues (soaking wet, wicking, etc) when my dd hit around six months - we needed to up a size for absorbency, even though she still fitted the infant size (we snappi). If you never have long trips out of let them go two hours between changes they'll be fine in the smaller size.


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## Mama~Love (Dec 8, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Selesai*
I agree, this is a great thread.
I'm planning to start cding w/ prefolds and see what I like. What should I choose-- CPF or IPF? (I am thinking I'll go w/ unbleached because of the environmental impact of bleaching)
Thanks!

I have both unbleached CPF's & IPF's, and I reach for the UB IPF's first. They are much softer than the CPF's. The IPF's are smaller size-wise, but it's good for my very petite 2 yr old. The CPF's are HUGE on her.

I started with bleached CPF's (they looked cleaner to me







: ), and sold them all off & got UB IPF's. And I'm so glad I did!


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## TypicalSituation (Jan 18, 2006)

I love my unbleached cpf's. Bleaching also damages the fibers so they don't last as long. I have 3 bleached that are as old as my unbleached and they have holes in them. I don't know for sure because I don't have any, but I have heard that indian pf's aren't as durable as the chinese. Umbleached also helps hide the stains, at least for a while. Some of my unbleached are almost white now.


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## sparkprincess (Sep 10, 2004)

I'm using cps most of the time with my toddler. I like the cost of these over the FBs and such. I've found they work well - even for short trips out and about.

Plus, I don't feel like I have to be as fussy with them - if they get stained or whatever it's not that big of a deal.


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## JenMidwife (Oct 4, 2005)

anniegirl, thanks for the link for dyeing


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## SweetTeach (Oct 5, 2003)

OK, can someone help me out here?

My 5.5 month old is 22 pounds and 28 inches long. What size prefolds should he be in?

Also, what covers do you all recommend? I've been part time cd'ing, ec'ing and sposie-ing...hoping to move over to just cd's and ec.

I've invested in some pockets (10) for nightime, going out and dh (misses signals) and want to use pf's during the day...I liked them when ds was small enough to fit in to his infant pf's.

Also, since I've spent $$ on the pockets, I want to get the best value for my $ with the prefolds/covers. I'd like to spend in the neighborhood of $50. Any ideas?


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## jodi5 (Mar 6, 2006)

I would say either regular or premium depending on the absorbancy you need. We use premiums for my 4 month old that is about 18lb and I expect they will work for a long time. I think some people have a mix of regulars and premiums so that if they want something trimmer for shorter periods the can use the regulars.


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## teacup (Nov 12, 2005)

Ha! I have to laugh, ST, because I just realized my daughter is in infants. (I should've upsized by now!) She is almost 14 months, but is almost the same size as your 5.5-month-old (31.5" and ~20lb). I'm still slapping my forehead about the infant size snafu. I guess it's not a snafu if they're working, but I feel like a dolt.

About covers for daytime while ECing: You might ask over on the EC board because I think they have some handy-dandy clothing for things like this. My first instinct, though, is to just let him sans cover, especially since you have the pockets for outings. A lot of moms let their children go coverless at home, and that way you could have quick access to the dipe. (However, I guess it depends on how fast you are with a Snappi or pins. It might be faster just to whip off the cover and a trifolded PF.)

If you do go with an inexpensive cover, I suggest Proraps (because that's what we use most of the time). They're very inexpensive (~$6 per cover) and velcro closure, so it's easy to get into quickly.

***
I was going to post here and ask a few ques.

Do you think I should upsize my PFs? You can see her measurements above (no idea about rise, etc). However, a friend gave me a Snappi and an IPF and wow! I actually got it onto her. (Picture me wrestling a toddler and trying to pull an infant-sized PF over her hips while Snapping for the first time.)

And can I Snappi the IPFs? They snagged a little that first time, so I am thinking it best not to, but man are they soft. Would that my underwear were that comfy!

Thanks.


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## ibusymomto5 (Jan 29, 2003)

I'm another huge prefold fan! They're so simple and easy to care for, plus I think there's nothing cuter than a neatly pinned prefold. They're so soft, and I love being able to customize the fit for my baby. I like washing them better! No snapping or stuffing inserts/soakers, etc. I like the neat, clean stack they make on the shelf.

I started out 8+ years ago with Gerber dsq prefolds, then moved on to cpfs, then recently tried ipfs. I like the ipfs the best. They're incredibly soft and easy to pin. LOVE THEM!!! I got a rainbow of solid dyed ipfs from Bumwrapdiapers.com, and they're so nice. Some of our cpfs were getting frayed on the edges from several years of hard use and needed to be replaced finally, so I thought I'd break out and add a little splash of color to the stash.

My favorite folds are... all of them! I like being able to switch up as my mood hits. The last couple of days I've been doing the newspaper fold, but I also like the angel fold, jelly fold, and bikini twist. They're all good, imo.

Prefolds rock!


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## TypicalSituation (Jan 18, 2006)

Get this... I started out dsq that the diaper service sold going out of business. Then I needed more because they had holes. So I went to Wal-mart and got GERBER POLY-FILL BIRDSEYE PREFOLDS and plastic pants plus Gerber diaper pins. Man those sucked so bad. They leaked so much that I gave up diapering for a while. Then I decided to take it up again becaue sposies are so $$$ and I discovered the wonderful world of online diaper stores and ordered me some unbleached cpf's and bummis covers. My whole world changed!

I am Jenny and that is my diaper story.


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## JenMidwife (Oct 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TypicalSituation*
I am Jenny and that is my diaper story.









Hehehe, Jenny- too funny!!!!


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## mamajea (Jan 7, 2005)

Im another prefold fan, I sold all my fitteds because I wanted to use Fuzzi Bunz exclusively but I didnt have enough FB's to use them full time, so I got my prefolds and bummis covers out (they had been sitting unused in a drawer) and started using them, well, I fell in love







I use them all the time now (trifolded in a bummis cover mostly, although sometimes I do a bikini twist) and only use the FB's (we have 8) for nights, the diaper bag and DH. I think a trifolded PF is just as quick and easy to put on as a pocket but is so mucher cheaper and theyre easier to care for too.


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## Mama~Love (Dec 8, 2003)

*Happy Sigh* I LOVE this thread!! LOVE the prefold talk!

teacup - I would get some Premium UBIPF's. They will fit much better, and be much easier to put on! And yes, you can Snappi them! I was doing that until I fell in love with pins







.


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## hellyaellen (Nov 8, 2005)

i started cd'ing ds from birth with nothing more than a dozen cpf's. i added 3 tyedyed ipfs shortly after that. the ipfs are much softer!









i've added a few other styles into the stash but i still love my pfs! i think dh would rather use a pf trifolded in a velcro close cover than anything else


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

I'm in the process of selling off all my Fuzzi Bunz and going strictly to prefolds, mostly out of a desire to have my son in all natural materials rather than artificial such as PUL.
Just thought I'd join the conversation.


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## puddingpop (Feb 1, 2004)

Another prefold-loving mama here! I trimmed them and now trifold them into BSWWs -- very easy and they seem to be working well. Occasional leaks, but no blowouts, which is more than I can say for the sposies. (Yuck.)
We've only been CD-ing for a little over three weeks, but I'm loving it. The system is so simple and even DH thinks they're great.


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## TypicalSituation (Jan 18, 2006)

I just bought some of these:
http://www.tinybirdsorganics.com/org...h-diapers.html
The color grown ones. I can't wait to get them.


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## Nickarolaberry (Dec 24, 2001)

nak
i love my prefolds and my prefitteds also rock.







.

ds is right now in an embellished premium prefitted -- yellow teddy bear flannel on an unbleached cpf, modified by Tammy at tinkletraps.com, pinned with yellow topped dritz pins and covered by a nylon dappi.








:

now I'm getting into wool too....uh oh....


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## Slabobbin (Jan 29, 2004)

Someone please help me figure this one out. My DD is almost 13 months old and has never in her life had a diaper rash. I have started using prefolds exclusively at home this past week and she is developing quite the bad rash all over her diaper area. Could it be the diapers?? She has used them before without a problem but I have never used them exclusively.


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## TypicalSituation (Jan 18, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Slabobbin*
Someone please help me figure this one out. My DD is almost 13 months old and has never in her life had a diaper rash. I have started using prefolds exclusively at home this past week and she is developing quite the bad rash all over her diaper area. Could it be the diapers?? She has used them before without a problem but I have never used them exclusively.

What detergent are you using?


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## Slabobbin (Jan 29, 2004)

I use grated Ivory Soap with a squirt of Dr. Bronners Sal Suds and white vinegar in the rinse.


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## TypicalSituation (Jan 18, 2006)

Well then I have no idea. I only asked because I used to use a detergent with an optical brightener in it and my kiddos got bad rashes.


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## Kontessa (Nov 5, 2005)

I am loving the pre-folds we have. We put the gerber covers over them more often then not. Little one is already out of his wool cover and I am thinking soon may be out of the size pre-folds we have. (We got them on e-bay from someone who did not use them and no clue what kind or size) They are going to be small soon too. So looking for more cloth diaper options on a messed up military pay at the moment. (Will they ever fix it? LOL Should we not be used to it by now? LOL)

Babies godmother might be sending him some money this summer so mommy can get him some things he needs, cd would be it! LOL

Oh, and Snappis are a must in my house! We adore them!

Blessings,
Kontessa


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## Vaquitita (Mar 2, 2006)

i love the look of prefolds! I use unbleached premium indian prefolds and dritz pins. usually the basic fold. i bought a couple fuzzi bunz, but didn't care for them. even my initially pin-aphobic hubby prefers to use a pf and pins. my ds outgrew infant pf's by 4 weeks, but he's a chunky guy (started at 9lb. 7oz.). then we switched to regualr cpf's from our diaper service. when our gifted service was up, i bought the ipf's from zannadu.com


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## eightyferrettoes (May 22, 2005)

Prefolds rock! I've got unbleached CPFs on the baby all the time. They are friggen indestructible. And I, too, love the effortlessly tidy stack they make on the shelf.

But alas, where do the Snappis run away to?


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## teacup (Nov 12, 2005)

Robyn, I put some fleece liners in my PFs. It's just white, cheap fleece that my Mom bought and I cut to fit. It helps keep her feeling dry. She had started to get a rash, too, when I began CDing in earnest. This helped nip it in the bud. Some people swear by keeping el bebe out of PUL, too, and either coverless, fleece, or wool, so the whole shebang is more breathable.

Well, people, tell me about your pins. What's the big deal with the Dritz? Where did you get them? How did you get good at pinning without impaling yourself/your child?


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## Slabobbin (Jan 29, 2004)

Teacup, is it that I'm not chaning her often enough? I try to get it as soon as she pees but I know sometimes she is playing or in the highchair or sleeping, etc. and I don't.







I just hate it because I really am digging using the prefolds. Would a fabric store have the type of fleece I need? I am going for simplicity so I was hoping to be able to just put on the dipe and be done with it. I don't use a cover most of the time (since we are just here at the house) so that isn't it. She doesn't seem to be in pain but it doens't look good to me, it looks painful.


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## teacup (Nov 12, 2005)

I am not sure if it's your changing time; I bet that's irrelevent, however, if you're cognizant about changing her often.

And I am certain my Mom got the fleece from (the only stinking store in their town that sells material) Wal-Mart, so you can get it cheap cheap anywhere. I just cut it into long maxi-pad-sized rectangles--wide enough to cover a trifolded PF and fairly long. Nothing scientific, you can be assured of that! I just used plain old paper scissors and went at the fleece, no sewing. If you want to get fancy you could use pinking shears. I throw the liners in a basket near the dipes and put a couple on top of the PF every time I change her. I throw the fleece in with the wash. It made a difference almost immediately. I can feel that she's dry this way, even when her dipe is soaked.

Yeah, I hate when their little bums look irritated like that. Try the fleece for 5 days or so and see what happens. I hope it works! Let us know.


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## Slabobbin (Jan 29, 2004)

Thanks.







Next time I get to town I'll have to get some and try it.


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## TypicalSituation (Jan 18, 2006)

I don't remember where I got my Dritz pins, but they are WAY better than the stinkin' Gerber pins I had. About impaling myself... I did it for the first time in a while the other day. Deep too! Practice! I am still working on getting a tight enough diaper so they don't leak poo onto my beautiful SP wool cover.


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

I bought some Dritz pins from Hana's Organics, where I order my prefolds.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

oh yeah you definitely have to try Dritz pins, way better than the gerbers. I tried pinning when ds was a newborn and gave up because of the cheapy pins. Dritz slide thru the cotton easily and have locking heads, no plastic part! I got mine from divadiapers but I don't think she's in business anymore. There's usually some on ebay and many cd sites sell them as well.

And my snappi's are always running off as well









I go back and forth as far as feeling the prefold love







It depends on how wiggly my son is and how patient I am but they are by far my favorite cloth diaper and I've tried many. It's funny cause when I first started researching cloth I planned on buying 3 dozen indian prefolds and some bummis covers then I got sucked into all the cute stuff. Now I seriously wouldn't mind converting to all pf's, I could have saved a ton of money had I stuck to my original plan.


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## Nickarolaberry (Dec 24, 2001)

Yeah, I agree. The only expensive thing I do with diapers these days is sometimes convert my prefolds to prefitteds.

That, plus buy wool.







.

And, my dd2 will only wear Fuzzibunz, but that's another story...







:

but the baby, he's all "natural."


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## SweetTeach (Oct 5, 2003)

jodi and teacup thanks for your thoughts. Teacup, that is too funny about the sizing. when my ds was 12 weeks he was 16.2 pounds and I couldnt figure out then why I was wrestling to get him into the infant cpf's.

I just received my 18 Premium UIPF's from Cloth Diapers N More (Yay Ally! Superfast shipping!) and I'm excited to get started.

I ended up getting 3 prorap covers too.

I think I'm going to start knitting a soaker for ds as well (we have one that he fits in now).

So I'm off to the laundrymat (down my 4 flights of steps thank you very much) to do the what, 5 washes I need to do before I can put him in them. I'm excited to get into cloth 100% now.

I also need to brush up on all the folds and practice with the pins I have. I've only snappied up to this point.


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## teacup (Nov 12, 2005)

Cool! Always fun to get dipes in the mail. I have read on one of the diapering sites (can't recall which--Diaperware, maybe) that IPF take fewer washings for readiness than do CPFs. So that's a (4-flight) bonus!


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## crysmomofthree (Mar 18, 2004)

I have developed a new love for prefolds, with my current dd!

I dappled in almost every kind of diaper with my ds #3 he wore fuzzi bunz, wonderoos, moes, other fiiteds and all sorts of pul covers.

Well dd is of the more sensitive type







she needs cotton (or hemp) and wool. any kind of fleece makes her red, pul covers make her rashy, so while I do have a dozen fitteds, I have started pulling out my prefolds again. But through my rediscovery of prefolds, I realized the one thing missing from them is "stretch" I really like a stretchy diaper. So that is my new quest to perfect a stretchy prefold, that washes wonderfully, dries quick, and snappies and pins like a dream







:


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## teacup (Nov 12, 2005)

Robyn, is the rash any better?


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## mama2graham (Mar 12, 2006)

Crysmomofthree, I too love a stretchy diaper, and I don't want to replace all my beloved prefolds with fitteds. Plus I feel like I need stretch to give my wool covers extra protection from gappy plain prefolds. So...I recently got a Babykicks Hemparoo Duz-it-All and have been using it to wrap up a prefold (a la directions at greenmountaindiapers.com) and it seems to be a solution! I ordered more, and I even saw hemp/cotton jersey by the yard is available online. Maybe I'll make some, and then have the perfect prefold/duz-it-all blend? Anyway, if you discover some other stretchy perfection, let us know!


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## crysmomofthree (Mar 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2graham*
Crysmomofthree, I too love a stretchy diaper, and I don't want to replace all my beloved prefolds with fitteds. Plus I feel like I need stretch to give my wool covers extra protection from gappy plain prefolds. So...I recently got a Babykicks Hemparoo Duz-it-All and have been using it to wrap up a prefold (a la directions at greenmountaindiapers.com) and it seems to be a solution! I ordered more, and I even saw hemp/cotton jersey by the yard is available online. Maybe I'll make some, and then have the perfect prefold/duz-it-all blend? Anyway, if you discover some other stretchy perfection, let us know!

hmmm I don't think the mdc ua allows me to talk about what I have made







lol

but stretchy prefolds are too die for










they have all the benefits of prefolds (quick drying less expensive very versatile) but with many of the benefits of fitteds (snug no poop leaks)

I really never felt the prefold love before this, yes I felt the prefold practicality but not the love, but talk about stretchy prefolds and I am in heaven


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## rootzdawta (May 22, 2005)

Oh gosh . . . I'm just fascinated with prefolds now. When I decided I wanted to cloth diaper, I had no idea what I was doing. I bought a whole bunch of different diapers and accessories and ended up selling most. My prefolds were so intimidating in the beginning being sleep deprived and all. I couldn't figure out the folds/pins and I didn't have the patience. So for the first month I used sposies until ds could fit into the Fuzzi Bunz I had. Well, since I hadn't really thought about what I would stuff the FB's with, I used the prefolds because that's what I had. They worked like a charm. I have two wool covers and I just ordered some larger unbleached prefolds. I'm so excited to give prefolds another chance. Although I love my pockets, I really love the simplicity, classic look and versatility of the prefolds. LoL . . . sometimes I feel so basic because I don't own anything but some regular pockets and prefolds but I am learning more and more everyday that the more basic the better! BTW . . . .this is a really great thread!


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## CalebsMama05 (Nov 26, 2005)

I had initially planned to go with 6dzn flats and 1/2 dzn each size FB's but now I'm considering getting at least a couple dozen prefolds...not sure...I like how there are a ton of different folds for flats and they dry (at least mine do) in 10 mins for 2dzn.


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## TypicalSituation (Jan 18, 2006)

Guess what I did this weekend? I dyed all of my prefolds! It only cost me about $6. They are now turqoise, purple, and red. I used dylon. I am in love all over again.


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## JenMidwife (Oct 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TypicalSituation*
Guess what I did this weekend? I dyed all of my prefolds! It only cost me about $6. They are now turqoise, purple, and red. I used dylon. I am in love all over again.

Oh, I can't wait to do mine! Did you do them in a stock pot or washing machine? If washing machine- did it stain the inside of the machine? What kind of dye did you use?

I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait!!!


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## Nickarolaberry (Dec 24, 2001)

Oooh, pics of the dyed pf's please!

Where did you get the dyes?


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## TypicalSituation (Jan 18, 2006)

I used Dylon dyes. I got them at Wal-mart. I did mine in my sink. I forgot to put salt in the purple batch, and it came out kinda spotty. I don't know for sure that that is what did it, but that was the only difference between the others and purple. My red ones are in the wash right now, but here is a pic of the others. I also think that I put too many in at a time, but they are still pretty. It makes me want to buy more pf's just to dye them.


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## JenMidwife (Oct 4, 2005)

Is Dylon like RIT? Your dipes are beautiful!







Thanks for the pics.


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## TypicalSituation (Jan 18, 2006)

I think Dylon is more permanent than RIT, but made by same people. So, now my sons toddler prefolds are PINK instead of red! I accidently pulled the plug in the sink and lost half of the dye, so added more water, and now they are pink. I guess I need to get more red and redye them.


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## Slabobbin (Jan 29, 2004)

It's better but I think it's only because we've been on the go a lot and using our pockets.







I'll have to evluate again when we stay home a day and only use the prefolds all day. Thank you for thinking of us.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *teacup*
Robyn, is the rash any better?


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## SweetTeach (Oct 5, 2003)

Question:
I put one of the premium pf's on my ds this afternoon (with a terry cloth liner) and his behind was huge. He just started sitting up on his own but with that dipe he couldn't really sit up (butt too big). Do other people have this problem? I guess I shouldn't line the prefold, huh?


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## teacup (Nov 12, 2005)

It's the PF. We need to invent a new fold called the Sitter Upper. Kind of wedged out, like a pyramid, so you can set that baby down and he'll stay sitting up.

Dude, those dyed dipes look awesome. I'm lurving the blue. What is the brand/kind of dye I see people mention on MDC now and then? Is that what you used?

(Robyn, I'm really hoping the fleece does it on the PFs. I have a little bit of fleece left, by the way, that's not cut. Would you like me to send it?)


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

oooh I've been dying to dye my prefolds







Thanks for the motivation! I'm gonna try the Dylon, I had thought you could only use the dye from procion on diapers but those look great!


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## Slabobbin (Jan 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *teacup*
(Robyn, I'm really hoping the fleece does it on the PFs. I have a little bit of fleece left, by the way, that's not cut. Would you like me to send it?)

That is so kind of you. I never cease to be amazed at the wonderful mama's here.







If you'll PM me your paypal addy I'll be happy to pay you for it, or at the very least pay shipping. Thank you mama.


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## susieinms (Aug 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rootzdawta*
. . . sometimes I feel so basic because I don't own anything but some regular fuzzi bunz and prefolds but I am learning more and more everyday that the more basic the better! BTW . . . .this is a really great thread!

Oh please don't feel that way!! You know what...I used 99% gerber 3 layer prefolds with my first 3 kiddos and all I had was 1 doz!! Can you say POOR!!! I would go to the baby section and wish that I had the money to buy just one more doz, but alas I didn't have it.

Well, when the Good Lord decided to bless us with our latest additon we are thankfully better off financially. My dh said, "I don't want this baby in a sopping wet diaper!!" He was all for sposies!! Then with the invention of the internet that we didn't have when my other three were babes (yes, I am a dinosaur!!







) I discovered FB!! Glory-be!! They have found a way to keep a baby dry and my lap dry too!! So with the blessing of my dh I ordered 18 FB. I absolutly loved them!!

Now my baby is too big for smalls and too skiny for meds!! I have gone through about 4 different types of diapers and spent way too much money for them ALL not to fit my baby!!! Not to mention that now dd has eczema and I don't want to use synthetics on her unless absoultly necessary.

My point....
I went back to prefolds (this time dsq ubip) and I am in love!!!! I also use an ocassional flat!! These diapers do not cause a rash on my dd and the fit!!!!!!!!!!! To top it off they are cheep!!!!!! They clean very well and rarely (if ever) get buildup like fleece can.

I think our Grannys knew EXACTLY what they were doing!!! All of these beautiful dipes out there are made to fit someone elses baby. Yes, they do fit others too, but often they won't fit yours. Prefolds and flats fit just how you want them too.









Please don't feel "just basic" cuz basic is where it is at!!!!







Feel..... "Hey I am basic, and basic is good!!"







No worrying about size, elastic giving out, snaps coming undone, and if you use white no worrying about fading. See you have more than you though!!


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## Mama~Love (Dec 8, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *susieinms*
These diapers do not cause a rash on my dd and the fit!!!!!!!!!!! To top it off they are cheep!!!!!! They clean very well and rarely (if ever) get buildup like fleece can.

I think our Grannys knew EXACTLY what they were doing!!! All of these beautiful dipes out there are made to fit someone elses baby. Yes, they do fit others too, but often they won't fit yours. Prefolds and flats fit just how you want them too.









Please don't feel "just basic" cuz basic is where it is at!!!!







Feel..... "Hey I am basic, and basic is good!!"







No worrying about size, elastic giving out, snaps coming undone, and if you use white no worrying about fading. See you have more than you though!!

AMEN mama







!! Basic is better in the long run! I'm proud to be basic too, LOL!!


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## MCPM (Jan 29, 2006)

I just got my first batch of prefolds that are MINE (I was doing diaper service before) and I'm so into them - unbleached IPFs. I want to cuddle them, they are so nice and soft and fluffy...and clean. Shame they have to meet their doom, but oh well! Now I get to figure out how to clean them.


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## JenMidwife (Oct 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MCPM*
Shame they have to meet their doom, but oh well!

Hahahaha







:


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## JenMidwife (Oct 4, 2005)

Um, I'm not 100% sure if it's okay to do this, but I just wanted to let you know know that I've searched high & low for the best prices on unbleached Indian pre-folds (will be the staple of my stash) & have found the cheapest price at a co-op (not for profit) I'm involved in. If you're interested, check out http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lct_diaper_supply/


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## welldone (May 30, 2003)

Another prefold lover here! We tried fancy stuff with my firstborn, but she got all rashy. We love how prefolds last *forever* and get so soft! We use nylon pull-on covers for day time use and wool for night.

Whoever pointed out Tiny Birds Organics organic prefolds--thank you! I've been looking for a non-knit organic prefold for a while, and was so excited to see these. How are they? Anyone tired? Birdseye or twill?

My second daughter gets rashy quickly--the key is quick changes. Oh, and don't let your diapers get moldy, either--that might add to the rash. (Ew, I know. I'm working on it...)


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## TypicalSituation (Jan 18, 2006)

I actually got my Tiny Birds organic color growns yesterday. I am so anxious for them to be broken in. I have only 2 washings under my belt and they still have oils on them. They are SO soft. Jenny is so great too! Mine got lost in the mail, so 2 weeks later I asked her about them and so sent me the 2 I ordered, plus 2 extras priority mail. So great! Especially since I am gonna be broke for a while and can't afford any more of them.









I am also proud to be "simple". I keep reading about the pocket diapers leaking or stinking or something. I actually have 2 happy hempies pocket diapers and I think it is kinda gross to stuff them. Having to pull out soaking wet diapers. My prefolds are reliable and they clean up good. I am glad I am not the only one that likes a good reliable diaper.


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## Mama8 (Mar 6, 2006)

Another prefold user here. I have cd 6 bottoms and have tried ME, WHAMS fitted snap diapers (Cute to cute I went way to














buying all the cute dipes and trying to keep them stain free) I have also used the wool covers. Love them. Except up keep was a little much for me. Now I use Hemp Fleece Prefolds with Nikki Heavy Duty Poly wrap. Works well for me and I don't worry about my PFs getting stained. Nor do I go bonkers bidding for and buying all those cute WHAM diapers. Yes I am a recovering WHAM diaper addict. I have been clean for 2 years now







I am going to add some Indian PFs to my stash though


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## welldone (May 30, 2003)

Jenny, thanks for the early review. Let us know how they work when they're broken in, would ya? I'm interested to know if their absorbancy is equal to or better than that of a conventional prefold.


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