# Protestors Traumatized My Kids!!!



## grnbn76 (Mar 3, 2004)

Ok, my family and I went on a little Sunday drive yesterday.
We drove past the abortion and contraception clinic (which is down the street from both a Catholic church and a...um...what is the word for convents for priests? One of those...).
There was a large group of protestors...I am assuming they came from the church down the street, as it was very shortly after church let out, and they had four or five Catholic priests walking the protest, too. There were the priests, men, women, and children in the group.
The priests were just walking, and the women and children were carrying signs that said "There Are Alternatives. Trust God.". Okay. I can handle that. I don't like the fact that they had their children out there with them, but okay.
First of all...it didn't really make sense to me at all. It was Sunday. The clinic was closed. There wasn't a giant line of women off to get their Sunday abortions and birth control packs. The parking lot was empty, the clinic was dark. But okay...if you need to protest a closed business, fine by me. I just have better things to do with my Sunday afternoon.

But then.........I saw the signs the men were carrying. Typical abortion protest signs...pictures of aborted fetuses. Okay. I can deal with this as well. I don't like it, it doesn't make sense to me, but okay. The clinic doesn't perform abortions after 9 weeks, which means the fetus barely has arms, and it certainly doesn't look like a full term newborn...but okay.
And then....my daughter...my precious, innocent, smarter than she should be nearly 7 year old daughter was looking out her window. Happened so fast, I didn't even realize it. I'm sure she thought it was a big party. Until she saw the huge, larger than life signs the men were carrying. She burst into tears and wondered why on earth people would carry around pictures of dead babies. She said "Mom, that looks like the baby in your belly right now, only it looks like he's been set on fire! Mom! Is our baby okay, or does he really look like that in your belly???"

I had to try to explain that to my child. They care so much about protesting the abortions that were not even occuring that day that they traumatized my daughter. We weren't going to the clinic. We weren't part of their protest. We were driving by the place, on our way to treat our children to ice cream on a beautiful day. And instead, I was left to explain that behavior to my crying daughter. It's bad enough that they chose to subject their own children to those pictures (there were about 20 children in the group), but they had to expose MY children to those pictures.
Whether or not anyone driving by agreed with the people marching, not one of them deserved to be shown those pictures. And certainly not any children who happened to be innocently looking out of the car window.


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## Maeve (Feb 21, 2004)

They had a demonstration just like that recently near where I live, too! (forget exactly when) They even mentioned it on the radio (which is how I knew about it), warning that if you have kids, you might not want to drive nearby.
I would've been so upset if my child had seen that too! I hope you're dd is doing better. I can't imagine all the thoughts and feelings that were going through her (especially w/you being pregnant).


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

uke


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

I was just talking about this very thing to my sister (okay I was ranting). If you really care so much for children and you don't want harm to come to them then don't show pictures of dead babies where children can see them.
I have very little respect for anti-abortion protesters who carry those signs. I think they are huge hypocrites. Oh and don't get me started on them having their young children out there with them exposing children to things they just souldn't be burdened with, sick.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

I hope your DD is okay.


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## menudo (May 21, 2002)

We came acrossed these guysa few weeksago too. They were overshadowing the anti circumcsion people, it wasawful. Theyhad a truck that was circling the convention center where gynos were meeting. The truck had a headless baby on it. I went to catholic grade school andsaw these imagesatleast yearly at an assembly.Awful. anyway, somehow mykids didn't ee the many posters too, but who was holding megaphones? Kids!

It's tough, people are passionate on both sides, but gruesome is not the best answer people!


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## Evergreen (Nov 6, 2002)

Maybe you can write them a letter explaining what happened and asking them to tone it down a bit. I mean, if they care so much about children...


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## merpk (Dec 19, 2001)

Activists who are so overwhelmed with their own egotistical activism that they are oblivious to children ... others' and their own ... it makes me nuts.

We live a block from an LDS church (currently being converted into a temple, though I'm not sure what that means) ... and for the last two weeks a few very burly men wearing shirts that say things like, "Save yourself from hellfire" and the like have been standing on the street in front of the church shouting through megaphones about people burning in damnation, etc. They are along with their young children ... cute little children. Smiling while their daddies taunt and threaten the people entering the church. Including children that I've seen looking very frightened and upset.

There's security in front of the church now, but they can't kick these people off the sidewalk. First Amendment and freedom of speech and all that.

But total lack of concern for children.

Not the same thing as the OP, but it's the same thing. And equally terrible.


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

I am so sorry that your kids were traumatized. I am an anti-abortion activist and I do not own/use any graphic pictures for this very reason. I have a 4 year old, and she has no clue what abortion is, and I hope it is a long time before I have to explain it to her







.

I wish all pro-lifers would realize how horrible it is for children to be exposed to these images.


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## hotmamacita (Sep 25, 2002)

Many pro-lifers DO realize that and do not engage in protests of any sort.

THese fringe people infuriate me. Plus, they are doing this on their Sabbath. A day of rest and worship of our Lord. It's all wrong, wrong I tell you on many levels.

I am sooo sorry that your dd was exposed to this.


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## stafl (Jul 1, 2002)

I think you should write some letters. Write one to your local newspaper, tv and radio stations, the churches involved in the "protest"... I would be sooo angry if it had been my family!

Hotmamacita - those sort of anti-abortionists aren't the fringe around here, they are the norm. Their signs of dead babies, their big wooden crosses, and they get a lot of public support in the form of $$$.


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## pugmadmama (Dec 11, 2003)

There was a group of anti-choice activists who were doing this on a bridge over the highway when I lived in Virginia. They would park a tractor trailor on the bridge with a horrid picture and leave it there during rush hour. Awful.

Anyway, a lot of people, including myself, called the police to complain about the traffic hazard aspect of it. The group _was_ ticketed for creating a potential hazard and they moved off the bridge. I had also written the group a letter, explaining that they were traumatizing children and suggesting that maybe that's not the best way to argue your point but I never heard back from them. (Of course, I also wrote that I was going to make a donation in their name to NARAL for X dollars a day that they were on the bridge, so maybe that's why they did not want to correspond with me.)

My point is, if this group was on a busy road, at an intersection or in other way creating a traffic hazard, you might want to call the police. I know most of the time the right to free speech and protest will win out (as it should), but sometimes these groups really are creating an unsafe driving situation.


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## CortLong (Jun 4, 2003)

Grrr........







That would've really ticked me off.

DH said they had a huge protest like this that he passed on the way home from work the other day and had pictures like you mentioned. HE felt that he was traumatized by seeing them and we are anti-abortion! I just don't understand the purpose. I hope your dd is ok.


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## Ilaria (Jan 14, 2002)

Often it seems like anti-choice activists are so focused on unborn children that they can't give 2 flips about the born ones. Hypocrisy.


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## DebraBaker (Jan 9, 2002)

I can understand why you would be upset and I can certainly understand why your daughter was traumitized but is anyone else upset that a baby died in a gruesome manner in order to make such a traumatic picture possible?

Debra Baker


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DebraBaker*
I can understand why you would be upset and I can certainly understand why your daughter was traumitized but is anyone else upset that a baby died in a gruesome manner in order to make such a traumatic picture possible?

Debra Baker

The point is our living children should not be exposed to pictures of dead babies so someone can make a point. It is actually irrelevant if we are upset by what lead to the actual picture. I also think it is completely disrespectful of the babies that died, another reason I think those people are huge hypocrites. What if the baby in the pic didn't have a developed brain (or add any defect that would cause death if born) and that is why the woman aborted because the baby could not survive outside the womb. Maybe the woman would have died if she had carried to term. Do we really know the circumstances behind the pictures to make a real judgement on how the abortion came to be? Of course to some it doesn't matter if the baby would survive or not. I also don't know anyone who thinks a late term abortion is a lovely walk in the park.
And that is all beside the point because wether or not you agree with abortion or think it is gruesome all children have the right not to me scarred by seeing pictures of dead babies.


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## wende (Oct 4, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sheacoby*
The point is our living children should not be exposed to pictures of dead babies so someone can make a point. It is actually irrelevant if we are upset by what lead to the actual picture. I also think it is completely disrespectful of the babies that died, another reason I think those people are huge hypocrites. What if the baby in the pic didn't have a developed brain (or add any defect that would cause death if born) and that is why the woman aborted because the baby could not survive outside the womb. Maybe the woman would have died if she had carried to term. Do we really know the circumstances behind the pictures to make a real judgement on how the abortion came to be? Of course to some it doesn't matter if the baby would survive or not. I also don't know anyone who thinks a late term abortion is a lovely walk in the park.
And that is all beside the point because wether or not you agree with abortion or think it is gruesome all children have the right not to me scarred by seeing pictures of dead babies.


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## hotmamacita (Sep 25, 2002)

I don't agree with these pro-life tactics. How do they serve to fuel anything buy hatred and anger? And I am uncomfortable with children seeing those photos. I don't want my children to see photos like that and I am FOR life.

I really had no idea that there are areas where people are doing this routinely, stafl. But then, I am not surprised that in Tennessee and other southern states that this is common. What saddens me is all the money that you say they raise to do things like this. I'd rather see all that money go to helping pregnant women kee their child, get the education and support they need and get started in rasing that child. To me--that is pro-life too.

DB--I agree. I am horrified at the abortion procedure and its purpose and result. It is just another reason why I loathe the medical community and their quest for the almighty $$$. But I do not think it is good to show these pictures where children may be exposed. Or to use children to make a point.


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## indie (Jun 16, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hotmamacita*
I really had no idea that there are areas where people are doing this routinely, stafl. But then, I am not surprised that in Tennessee and other southern states that this is common.

I live in TN and have actually never seen it here although I have seen it in California.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hotmamacita*
What saddens me is all the money that you say they raise to do things like this. I'd rather see all that money go to helping pregnant women kee their child, get the education and support they need and get started in rasing that child. To me--that is pro-life too.

ITA


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## menudo (May 21, 2002)

FYI-I saw them in Center City, Philadelphia, right downtown.

Then again I went to suburban Catholic school and saw slide shows of it in grade school...


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## Meiri (Aug 31, 2002)

Letters to the editor complaining about protests of this type are published regularly in PGH. Doesn't change a thing. Those protesters could not care less about the living children they traumatize, and some have said so. There have been responses to the effect that it's good. I guess their "reasoning" is that that child will not go on to have one????


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## Aura_Kitten (Aug 13, 2002)

Sheacoby ~









when i was still anti-abortion (and a pro-life activist) the pro-life group i was part of would go to clinics -- during their hours -- and sit and pray. there were no signs -- the "protest" was conducted in complete silence -- and everyone simply sat on the ground, sidewalk, etc and prayed for the women (and babies) going into the clinic.

i am horrified that people would think it's OK to show images like those to children.


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

Totally off topic but . . .

I noticed one of the posters here who said she was an anti-abortion activist has a quote from Dr. Seuss in her sig line about "A person's a person no matter how small."

I saw a documentary about him awhile back, and while he was still living, some anti-abortion activitists were using that line from his book, and he was livid. He actually ended up suing some places. He was adamant that that line had nothing to do with abortion, nor his political stance about it.

Anyway, everytime I see that line used with respect to abortion, I think about Dr. Seuss rolling over in his grave. Apparently it was something that made him incredibly angry, and that he fought against it for a long time.


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## hotmamacita (Sep 25, 2002)

I used to live in Philly, never saw them there. Used to live in NJ, neversaw them there. Used to live in Texas, SADLY saw them there in the early 90's. I live in Seattle now, haven't seen them yet. In fact, the only time I saw them was in Texas.

I do not doubt they are everywhere. I only thought it was a fringe element thing. Stafl's post corrected me that it is not the fringe element where she is. I assumed she meant Tennessee. I am glad she posted that b/c I had no idea this occurs regularly.

Do you see these people regularly in Philly/NJ because if so, its really changed since we left? Who is it that is doing it there? Catholics?

The whole thing just really bothers me regardless of how often or how infrequently this is done. I do not think it will change anyone's political opinion since many people make this a political issue. I feel strongly about pre-born children, yes. But not enough to harm a post-born child.

Again, I am so sorry your daughter witnessed that. I know you will guide her through this well.


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

Oceanbaby-

If you have a problem with my sig line b/c I happen to be pro-life- I think you will have to get over it. I assume that were I pro-choice you would feel no need to comment on my sig.. I'd appreciate you taking up any problems you have with me to the pm system.


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## sleeping queen (Nov 10, 2003)

Quote:

I can understand why you would be upset and I can certainly understand why your daughter was traumitized but is anyone else upset that a baby died in a gruesome manner in order to make such a traumatic picture possible?
I agree. I also think many people don't like to see the reality of what abortion is.


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## menudo (May 21, 2002)

Quote:

Do you see these people regularly in Philly/NJ because if so, its really changed since we left? Who is it that is doing it there? Catholics?
No. I think theywere from out of town when I was in Philly. They were there for a convention (something about gynos and obstetricians-brain fart). I actually went back a couple days later to chat with the nocirc.org people whom they were overshadowing BIGTIME. Most local "activists" are the quieter type, a few signs (words only or words and healthy babies smiling), but they are rare here too. Not sure where in Jersey you lived but as a kid they (from my schools church, lol) used to always be at Underwood hospitaal, generally peacefully. It was the assemblies at school that were gruesome. And they also told us planned parenthood was evil-EVIL!

Notice I am avoiding discussing my viewsonthe subject...


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## DreamerMama (Feb 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sleeping queen*
I agree. I also think many people don't like to see the reality of what abortion is.


Ahh, so you think her 7 year old needs a reality check? That is what she was posting about, her 7 year old. Not a bunch of pro-choice ADULTS but a small defensless child.

To the OP







s. I can't imagine my daughter (who is nine) having to see that. I would be at a loss for words to have to explain it. She would most likely have nightmares, she is a very sensitive child. It would even prompt me to take her to a therapist if I had to. I would be so very very angry.

What in the world does that teach our small children about the pro-life movement? That it is ok to harrass and show disgusting images to small children for the sake of an unborn fetus that might or might not be aborted.

I am beyond disgusted.


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## DreamerMama (Feb 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jess7396*
Oceanbaby-

If you have a problem with my sig line b/c I happen to be pro-life- I think you will have to get over it.

I'm not Oceanbaby, but it disturbes me that you are using that quote from a Dr. Suess to make a political statement. It has always bothered me and this isn't the first time I have been put off by your sig line.

I am not upset that you use the quote and your pro-life, I am upset because your using it to make a political statement.

It makes me also very very sad that, like Oceanbaby said, he would be upset that people misused his words to make a statement about abortion.

When you misuse an innocent statement, made by a beloved writer, to further your own agenda, it is WRONG. It is WRONG because he specificaly asked it not to be used in that way. Why not respect him?

Why not find a quote by someone who is vocally pro-life, and let poor Dr. Suess alone?

May he rest in peace.


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

I am not particularly upset by it, so 'getting over it' isn't really an issue. And I couldn't remember which poster it was, so that's why I didn't specify (you can't see sign lines when you read the posts in reply mode). I just thought I would point out that Dr. Seuss himself was adamant that that line was NOT a political statement about abortion.

Quote:

I agree. I also think many people don't like to see the reality of what abortion is.
So I assume you are in favor of the press showing pics of dead soldiers coming back from Iraq. And how about some shots of the dead schoolchildren from the bombed buses. That is the reality of war. Maybe school cafeterias should hand out pics of bloody mangled animals to anyone who orders a hamburger. That's the reality of eating meat.


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

On another note . . .

I was one time stopped coincidentally in front of Planned Parenthood because I saw my mom drive by and we were going to pull over and talk.

A protestor came up to my window and started screaming at me about being a sinner and how I was going to hell, etc. etc. My mom walked up just then and just about punched her.

I guess they've never heard about catching more flies with honey.


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

OP- sorry this is so OT but I feel a need to respond to ASSUMPTIONS made.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Zaq001*
I'm not Oceanbaby, but it disturbes me that you are using that quote from a Dr. Suess to make a political statement. It has always bothered me and this isn't the first time I have been put off by your sig line.

I am not upset that you use the quote and your pro-life, I am upset because your using it to make a political statement.

It makes me also very very sad that, like Oceanbaby said, he would be upset that people misused his words to make a statement about abortion.

When you misuse an innocent statement, made by a beloved writer, to further your own agenda, it is WRONG. It is WRONG because he specificaly asked it not to be used in that way. Why not respect him?

Why not find a quote by someone who is vocally pro-life, and let poor Dr. Suess alone?

May he rest in peace.

Zaq and Oceanbaby- you are both making some pretty strong assumptions here, and- we know how assumptions can go- ----

FTR- I didn't put that there to have anything to do with abortion- I am referencing CHILDREN, when I was a teacher I posted that quote on the door of my classroom to hopefully have people understand my view that children should be treated with equal respect to adults, it's there more as a gentle discipline idea, you can ASSUME that b/c I happen to be pro-life (or anti-abortion, whichever term you prefer) that you know why I put a certain quote in my sig. line. You are free to assume and then be offended by whatever you like- but that does not make it my issue, it is something for you to come to terms with. We are all here on a site where we place a high value on treating our children as equals- and it never crossed your mind that I *might* be quoting my favorite children's author for that reason- I hope you can wrap your minds around that.

I am strongly against abortion, yes- but I choose not to put abortion-related quotes in my sig. line b/c I try to be sensitive to the fact that a number of mamas here have been through abortions.

Surely the idea that "a person is a person no matter how small" could/does relate to the abortion discussion, but you 2 have chosen to assume that I put that out there for reasons other than what I did.

PS-I read of Dr. Seuss talking about how the book was actually about the Japanese people----so I guess even using it about children might be "against what he was talking about".


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

Just to be clear myself, I am not particularly offended or upset about it, so it's not something I need to come to terms with or get over. There's no need to start implying that I may be unable to wrap my mind around simple concepts.

I have seen it used many times with respect to being anti-abortion, which is why I wanted to point out that Dr. Seuss specifically did NOT mean it be a political statement. It's why I did not PM you or try to single any one person out specifically (although yes, it seems awfully coincidental to be used as a sig while posting about being anti-abortion, but I can believe that it's just coincidence).

I just think that people should know what Dr. Seuss's intentions were with that quote since it is so often used out of context, just like I wanted people to know that Robin Williams did not write that stupid political piece that being passed around on the internet being attributed to him.


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## DreamerMama (Feb 2, 2003)

Jess, I actually made a remark because I have seen you post some very interesting pro-life things on this board. As a matter of fact, I hardly recognize "names" or siglines on here because it is so large but I do remember your name. Every time I see a post from you about anti-abortion, and see your sig line...I cringe.

Hey maybe it's just me, and if that was not your intention...I do apologize.

When I see that line thrown around by pro-lifers, I always think that it is a very underhanded way to get accross their agenda. I just take issue with it...that's all.


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## pugmadmama (Dec 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sleeping queen*
...I also think many people don't like to see the reality of what abortion is.

88% of abortions occur in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy. 55% occur prior to the 9th week. The pictures I've seen used by anti-choice groups show a much older aborted fetus.

But you would never guess that from the protestors. And they don't want you to know that either. Whatever it is those protestors are trying to do, it's _not_ show the reality of what abortion is.


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## tracymom (Mar 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hotmamacita*
I really had no idea that there are areas where people are doing this routinely, stafl. But then, I am not surprised that in Tennessee and other southern states that this is common.









:

I hope you don't mean that like it sounds, but anyway... I haven't seen people carrying signs like that 'round here but the thing that gets my goat are the "graveyards" they put up of tiny little wooden crosses with the statistic of how many babies died. We have had several deaths in our family over the last few years and of course my DS knew what a graveyard was, so he was asking about it. Not gruesome to look at, but I still had to try to explain it, IYKWIM.


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## CaringDaddy (May 23, 2004)




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## pugmadmama (Dec 11, 2003)

Caring Daddy, I am so very sorry about the death of your daughter. For a life to be cut so short is just so unfair and so very sad.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CaringDaddy*
...If only we had told our daughter the dangers of abortion instead of trying to protect her from it or cover it up, she still might be alive today. Oh, I wish we would have exposed to the stuff you all are talking about. ...

If it's any comfort to you...the risk of death associated with childbirth is 11 times higher than the risk of death from abortion. So if even if you'd spoken frankly with your daughter about abortion, she still might very well have drawn the conclusion that abortion was safer.

Also, I went to a Catholic high school where we were exposed to literature and pictures like the things described in this thread. Many young women I went to high school with _still_ chose abortion. Again, exposing your daughter to these things might have not had the effect you think it would have on her.

I'm telling you these things in the hope that you'll be able to perhaps be more peace with your daughters decision and your influence on it.

But above all, I am so sorry that your daughter died.


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

Caring Daddy- I am so very sorry for your loss.

Someday I know I will have to educate my children about abortion- but right now my oldest is 4, and though she knows all about fetal developoment (I just had a baby) and birth, etc. it is WAY too early- I hope I will know when the time is right to discuss it with each of my children. I imagine it will come up along the way with all of the discussions of sex, birth control, etc.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

CaringDaddy - also sorry for your loss. I think those abortion pills are more dangerous than we realize, and still too new. I will plan on warning my dd about them when she is older.

I think there are other ways to teach about the risks of abortion than what the protesters were doing. And this post brings up a good point:

Quote:

I also think it is completely disrespectful of the babies that died, another reason I think those people are huge hypocrites.
All those people preaching about the rights of the children don't seem to care that these children could not consent to having photos of their dead bodies shown to everyone. What if, every time a woman was killed from domestic violence, we took pictures of her body and displayed them in public to "educate" the people about the dangers of domestic violence? What might the woman's family think of that? Is that something the deceased might have wanted?


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## Maeve (Feb 21, 2004)

CaringDaddy,
I can't tell you how sorry I am for what happened to your daughter. I can't imagine going though that and how hard it must be.









But I believe there is a huge difference between a six yr old (my dd's age) and a teenager seeing those pictures. I believe that I should have the choice when and if to show those to my child. My daughter is a very sensitive child and it would be too scarring at this age for her to be exposed to something like that. I see no reason why a six year old needs to be exposed to the reality of abortion. I prefer for her to have at least a little while to remain innocent, kwim?


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## SkyAngel (May 26, 2004)

I hate protestors!! They're always so angry and mean! Luckily I don't encounter them too much, but they riot and everything. I don't feel it's a good way to get your point across when resorting to violence. Those anti-abortion people are scary anyhow. They'll kill a doctor to save life??


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## Summit (May 27, 2004)

I'm afraid such protestors don't much care if your child is offended given that they have their own kids marching around despide the fact that they probably arent old enough to understand the issue. Such ideologues often view children as pawns in such "wars."

I remember when PETA was handing out little booklets to children that said something along the lines of "Your mommy is a murderer" with graphic pictures of cartoon mothers gleefully butchering cute little bunnies for breakfast etc.

Within their rights? Yes. Morally dubious though...


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Does anyone know if there are laws (esp. in CA) about these types of signs (graphic abortion depictions) near a school? About once a week, a group of protesters with graphic signs outside of a medical building that also happens to house a charter school. Which means that all of the students at the school must walk past these signs to get to school. But I can't figure out who to complain to or call. I am not directly involved, I just drive by it on the way to work. I do not want to get into a free speech, right to demonstrate debate, or even an abortion debate, I would just like to move this away from the school. After all, you can't advertise alcohol or cigarettes near a school. Seems like this shouldn't be allowed either.


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