# No Cry Sleep Solution



## Owachi (Jan 15, 2007)

Has anyone tried the No Cry Sleep Solution? Did it work for you?


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## XanaduMama (May 19, 2006)

Well, I said "yes," but I think that's a bit misleading. The poll's options are a bit misleading, actually, since it's not really the "solution" that the book's title promises (I suppose the book's title is misleading too, then!). We've been trying the various strategies (esp the "Pantley Pull-Off") for about 7 months now and I think they've definitely resulted in a major improvement over the long term. ds no longer nurses TO sleep: when he's done nursing, he unlatches and rolls over and goes to sleep on his own. So bedtime is much, much easier than it used to be, and nighttime wakings are less disruptive. But if you mean, did it get him to sleep 10 hours at night, then no. He still wakes up a lot, but the book has definitely been helpful.


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

No. We call it the No Cry, No Sleep, No Solution book. There's no "solution" - just random things that might help. And if they help you, great. But there was really nothing in there for us.


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## Ex Libris (Jan 31, 2004)

Ditto.


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## eldadeedlit (Jun 22, 2004)

both of my older ones slept a lot better after doing the pull-off thing... woke up a lot less. great book imo.


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## newbymom05 (Aug 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *XanaduMama* 
Well, I said "yes," but I think that's a bit misleading. The poll's options are a bit misleading, actually, since it's not really the "solution" that the book's title promises (I suppose the book's title is misleading too, then!). We've been trying the various strategies (esp the "Pantley Pull-Off") for about 7 months now and I think they've definitely resulted in a major improvement over the long term. ds no longer nurses TO sleep: when he's done nursing, he unlatches and rolls over and goes to sleep on his own. So bedtime is much, much easier than it used to be, and nighttime wakings are less disruptive. But if you mean, did it get him to sleep 10 hours at night, then no. He still wakes up a lot, but the book has definitely been helpful.

If you've been trying the PPO for 7 mo's, don't you think that your dc may just be getting older and "solving" his own sleep problems? I dunno, I like the book but it seems like basically the advice is to just wait and then they'll grow out of it.

Don't mind me, just bitter that no one can tell me how to make my child sleep w/out waking up 5x+ a night!


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

Quote:

Don't mind me, just bitter that no one can tell me how to make my child sleep w/out waking up 5x+ a night!
I hear ya. I keep thinking there has to be SOMETHING between CIO and just waiting for her to outgrow it.


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## rzberrymom (Feb 10, 2005)

It didn't work for us. Absolutely none of the methods worked (and I followed it to the letter), which just made me frantic. And I got obsessed with the clock--I was either awake wondering why the heck the methods weren't working, or I was awake celebrating that she just slept 30 minutes longer than the last stretch. Crazy.


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## rzberrymom (Feb 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newbymom05* 
If you've been trying the PPO for 7 mo's, don't you think that your dc may just be getting older and "solving" his own sleep problems?

Yeah, I gotta agree with that analysis.


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## Flor (Nov 19, 2003)

The pull off worked. The rest did not. I never had much trouble getting ds to STAY sleeping, I had problems GETTING him to sleep. A baby who lays in bed for 1.5 hours kicking his legs and staring at you in the dark-- I didn't feel that she delt with that situation. The book seemed to assume the child would fall asleep, then wake up frequently.


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## newbymom05 (Aug 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Flor* 
The pull off worked. The rest did not. I never had much trouble getting ds to STAY sleeping, I had problems GETTING him to sleep. A baby who lays in bed for 1.5 hours kicking his legs and staring at you in the dark-- I didn't feel that she delt with that situation. The book seemed to assume the child would fall asleep, then wake up frequently.

OK, now that is interesting. I am going to have to reread it because I felt totally the opposite--it was for people whose kids wouldn't sleep, therefore I didn't find it helpful since we use the magic boob for sleep. I just don't want to have to use it every 2 hrs!

Sadly, I'm beginning to think there is no way to make anyone fall or stay asleep. Some of us seem to have been blessed w/ sleep challenged LOs.


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## XanaduMama (May 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newbymom05* 
If you've been trying the PPO for 7 mo's, don't you think that your dc may just be getting older and "solving" his own sleep problems?


Yep, probably true. I'll clarify and say that the pull off thing was helpful, but the rest really is tips, rather than a "solution." It was no help at all for naps, which is what I really wanted...time was the only "solution" there.


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## Flor (Nov 19, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newbymom05* 
OK, now that is interesting. I am going to have to reread it because I felt totally the opposite--it was for people whose kids wouldn't sleep, therefore I didn't find it helpful since we use the magic boob for sleep. I just don't want to have to use it every 2 hrs!

Sadly, I'm beginning to think there is no way to make anyone fall or stay asleep. Some of us seem to have been blessed w/ sleep challenged LOs.

Well, I think I agree with you. She seemed to gloss over getting them to fall asleep-- it was either nursing or rocking or whatever, just have a routine (which we did, but it didn't seem to help at all) but had tips on how to get them to nurse less frequently or shorter duration, to not be attached all night. I didn't think she dealt with the child who would nurse, rock, read a book, sing a song, take a bath, whatever and is still awake 2 hours later!!!!


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

Nope didn't work for DD but I often mention the book in mainstream circles just so the info is out there b/c she does talk about how babies sleep and it does utt he gentleness idea out there. I don't recommend it on here b/c it is a lesson in futility...charts??? who has time for charts at 3 am? and again at 3:45 and again 4 and again and again... I was too tired!!
But in reality I feel like CIO babies aren't sleeping either it's just that their parents are.


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## jchizever (Feb 19, 2007)

Well - this is all a bummer. I am reading it now and was really hoping (praying) for the "magic" solution - I guess I shouldn't expect it now.


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## mama k nj (Dec 18, 2006)

I voted yes.
But it is in no way a quick fix. IMO the only quick fix is CIO and obviously I didn't want to try that route. We are no where near sleeping through the night at 6 months but as pps have mentioned the suggestions have helped us have a more pleasant bedtime and less disruptive wakings.
I have posted on this board and other forums about our sleep problems and the only advice I have gotten is to wait it out and that he will out grow it. That was not working for us at all. Both DH and I were tired and frustrated and close to caving on the CIO position, but NCSS gave us some suggestions and other things to try. Most importantly I think that this book has helped me set realistic expectations and to have a better attitude about everything.
So I definitely say it's worth a try. You should be able to get it from a library if you are unsure about buying the book.


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## amyb15 (Jan 10, 2007)

I am going to try and I'll get back to this topic soon


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## nighten (Oct 18, 2005)

I voted yes because it was helpful in making me think of more things to try. The pull-off thing works for us but ONLY if I do it right before I lay her down. If I let unlatch then continue rocking, she wakes up the second I lay her down.

There are other things in it that we've adapted, which I think is the point of the book: there is no one fix for every child. You take whatever works for you and go from there.

But overall I liked the book. It made me think, for sure, and the suggestions didn't run counter to our approach for parenting (unlike so many other sleep books out there).

We're still nursing to sleep but not nursing as much all night (her suggestions about when a baby might just need comfort but not necessarily nursing was a big eye-opener for us and was accurate in our case).

Overall I was pleased with it, though it didn't SOLVE our sleep problems, it definitely offered some tips on how to IMPROVE things, which has been a big help overall.









I don't think there is any book or approach out there that works 100% of the time, honestly, since every child is different and their sleep needs/patterns change as they grow. What we took away from our reading of this book was that the key in our case was being able to stick with what works, but adapt on the fly as needed.

'Course I probably could have figured that out, if I weren't so dang sleep deprived all the time, and saved the $$ we spent on the book.








Either way, it's still the first book I recommend when someone asks if I know of one that might help, especially if they're considering CIO.


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## kerilynn (Sep 9, 2005)

I voted yes
at 11 months DS was still up 3-6x a night to nurse
I used a few different techniques in the book, including the pull off and by 12.5 months he was sleeping through the night, and by using the NCSS for Toddlers he was putting himself to sleep in the family bed by 22 months (started techniques for that at 20 months when we weaned because I had rotavirus and my milk dried up)


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## Fairy4tmama (Sep 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nighten* 
There are other things in it that we've adapted, which I think is the point of the book: there is no one fix for every child. You take whatever works for you and go from there.

But overall I liked the book. It made me think, for sure, and the suggestions didn't run counter to our approach for parenting (unlike so many other sleep books out there).

.

YEP "worked" for us but the title is misleading in that its not one solution but a whole lot of gentle ideas, that in a combination that works for you, may lead to a solution. I am glad that it is titled tthe NCSS because it catches the interest of those who might otherwise sleeptrain there baby.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

I learned a lot from NCSS. Here is an old post of mine about adding sleep associations and other ideas and issues related to getting to sleep and staying asleep. Some are about toddlers, rather than infants. Hope something helps.

Pat

Quote:

We have experienced a lot of challenges with ds's night wakening
through the years. Here are a bunch of ideas that I have accumulated.
Some work at different times, some are now obsolete, some are routines
for us. I hope something helps you all find more restful sleep.
Apparently, Kurcinka has a new book "Sleepless in America", which is
supposed to have some more ideas. I am not sure how consensual her
suggestions might be though.
http://www.amazon.com/Sleepless-Amer.../dp/0060736011

Our major issue stems around food intolerances which affect our son's
behavior and disturbs his sleep. We have mostly identified and
elminiated them. You might check The Feingold Diet on-line for
specifics. But dairy (including casein and whey) causes him to be
aggressive and less able to process information about other people's
needs and boundaries. Artificial colors red and yellow and high
fructose corn syrup and foods naturally high in salicylates also cause
hyper type behaviors and loud vocalizations (loud noise, loud voices,
loud forceful talking). If any of these are consummed late in the day,
he has more trouble falling asleep and has increased night wakening.
Wheat used to disturb ds's sleep, also.

Offering less to drink late, after 6 or 8pm might help some children.
And I have heard that dairy before bed is highly correllated with
night waking and night bedwetting. Soy seemed to disturb ds from
settling and resting for long periods as well. A protein food helps
our son settle for the night, like peanut butter and some OJ. Sugar
seems to hype some kids up. Obviously avoiding caffeine, chocolate. We
generally don't consume chocolate after 3-4 pm, if we can avoid it.

We use an aromatherapy called "Peace & Calming" which helps all of us
settle down for the night. It is part of our nighttime 'atmosphere'.
http://www.aroma-essence.com/catalog/peace-calming.html I put a couple
of drops on his feet or back, or on my wrists, and cuddle ds and he
will settle. Another thing that ds still at 4.5 liked was getting in
the sling and being held closely when he was overtired, but not
wanting to sleep. The chest pressure helps to center him. Bouncing,
rocking and swinging help to soothe too. I have also used Melatonin
(herbal) recently after a few late nights so that I would get right to
sleep. I have also used White Chestnut, a Bach flower remedy which
helps 'when thoughts go round and round in your head'.

Another thing that I found recently, is to be sure to get some
sunlight during the day at regular times to enhance the biorhythms and
hormones. And dimming the lights earlier in the evening helps
melatonin production, apparently. We have also tried melatonin
supplementation about a dozen times when we have had inadvertant days
of food intolerance exposure disrupting our sleep patterns. Melatonin
is great at helping our son get to sleep. If he has that second wind
and winds back up, he can be up for hours and hours. Apparently,
melatonin levels are low in hyperactive and autistic children. But,
there are some hormonal and immune system issues associated with its
use. So, we are very reluctant to rely on it. We've also noticed that
if it is given to get to sleep, he wakes up after 5 hours or so and
has a hard time getting back to sleep.

Rescue Remedy liquid or RR cream helps when everyone is too exhausted
to be quiet and settled. The cream helps you both. Outdoor play in
daylight helps our son sleep more soundly. A familar video helps.
Creating a routine of sleep associations helps. Certainly not
immediately but over time. Cuddle, blanket, lovey, specific chair,
song, video, rock, sling, pat, shussh, night time story. Car rides as
last resort. Caution they become habits too easily.

Cod liver oil (essential fatty acids) is supposed to have calming
factors too. Ds LOVES Nordic Naturals' peach flavored cod liver oil. I
heard that calcium in foods or supplements might help. Lavender helps
to soothe and calm. Especially in bath water or as a lotion or rub.
And transitions, strange places, or busy overstimulating
outings/activities energize and disturb our son from settling for at
least 2-4 hours after returning. He seems to need to process all the
going on while doing some familar free play before he can stop and get
quiet enough to fall asleep. So, we try to avoid exciting stuff in the
evening. Dh coming home late seems to delay ds from winding down for
the evening also. He seems to be waiting for him.

I have heard that Epsom salt baths have a calming effect due to the
magnesium in them. And it is available at chain pharmacies. It
apparently has a detoxifying effect also. Have iron levels been
discussed? I am ambivalent about trying iron supplements for our
little guy due to toxic potential. But from what I have read, iron
deficiency is related to hyperactivity/restlessness. I believe it was
Magnesium, Calcium, Zinc and Iron which are attributed to
restlessness. I've heard the best thing is to get some magnesium
citrate powder and take 3 - 4 times a day for a while. We've been
using Natural Calm for magnesium supplementation and it seems to help.

The No Cry Sleep Solution helped us to create additional sleep
associations. Now ds will just cuddle his lovey, I give him a pat and
a shussh and we both go back to sleep.
Restful dreams,

Pat


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Here is another old post about sleep issues:

Quote:

Ok, here are the rest of my tricks up the sleeve. LOL Another old post
about nipple weaning, AKA the Pantley Method.

Ds woke every 60-90 minutes too for the first 18-21 months until I
read No Cry Sleep Solution. I understood the idea of getting the
nipple out of his mouth but the reality was quite a bit harder. It
took almost three months for this to succeed. At times, I figured
trying to change seemed so much harder than just letting him nurse to
sleep every 60-90 minutes all night long. But I kept at it for one
week and found that several times in the week he DID fall back asleep
with out the nipple. And I swear it had never happened before NCSS.
So, that gave me some hope. Then, the second week it happened only
several times and again I felt hopeless. And sleepless because at the
same time I was doing MORE sleep associations which were just making
me MORE awake and MORE tired.

Oh, how I wished that I had done the MORE sleep associations when he
had been an infant. But I didn't have the energy or the desire not to
just peacefully nurse him to sleep. That worked and we both loved it.
Until, I was so sleep deprived that I needed sleep more than I wanted
to just keep waking to nurse him back to sleep. Of course, we co-slept
or I'd have died of exhaustion well before 18 months. But it wasn't
that ds wasn't just dozing peacefully back to sleep, *I* wasn't dozing
back to sleep despite exhaustion and probably due to the self talk of
"I want to sleep! I don't want to wake up every hour or two any more!"

So, we kept adding sleep associations: I would tap my finger on his
head softly with a heartbeat cadence; I had added a lullaby, started
making a shusshing sound at regular intervals, added a lovey which we
always held while nursing; held him in a specific way, cradled his
head against my arm for slight pressure on it; placed a heavy hand on
his chest to mimic holding him close; gently delatched him BUT DID NOT
MOVE A MUSCLE continuing ALL the added sleep associations; and waited
TEN MINUTES until he was deeply asleep and then I would slowly and
gently set him on the bed beside me and keep doing all the added sleep
associations except the nursing for several minutes. Then gradually
stopping the lullaby, then stopping the head pressure and then
stopping the tapping cadence then stopping the gentle chest pressure
and then stopping the shusshing and the lovey was his companion.

Then when he awakened we did the whole thing again every time for
about four weeks until gradually the delatching routine became
quicker. And after about two more months, when he awakened
occasionally the other sleep associations were enough and gradually
over the next several months I slowly withdrew them except to just
place my heavy hand on his chest or head and shussh him back to sleep,
sometimes with the heart beat tap, tap, tap cadence. But, he still
awakened to nurse about three times a night but it was a much shorter
time awake because all the signals were associated with sleep and he
dozed off more quickly. And I got back to sleep more quickly too.

So, the NCSS allowed me to ultimately get more sleep but in the "short
run" of the first couple of months of adding sleep associations, I had
much less sleep!
HTH, Pat


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## Deborah (Dec 6, 2002)

I'm curious. When my granddaughter was an infant she was a sort of self-stimulator: she would wiggle and kick and keep herself awake, even when exhausted. Her mother figured out that gently swaddling her in a blanket so she couldn't wiggle as much would settle her down to sleep in a few minutes. This may have been one of the reasons slings also helped her sleep, very comfy and no wiggle room.

She is a super good sleeper now as a seven year old. She can even fall asleep when her little brother is talking and singing (they share a bedroom).


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## Hollin (Jun 26, 2005)

Didn't work for us at all and I was religious about it. IMO there are only 3 ways to have a child who sleeps through the night:

1. CIO in some form (even crying in arms)
2. Been blessed with a child who naturally sleeps through
3. Wait until your child is ready

I don't believe in 1, 2 didn't happen, so I guess it's 3 for us


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## wendy1221 (Feb 9, 2004)

I voted no, but that's not entirely correct. I got the book after ds2 started sleeping through the night. We did these methods on our own instinctively. I nightweaned him when I was pregnant b/c I needed the sleep and dh would walk or cuddle him to sleep.

Nothing works on ds3. Dh can walk him to sleep, but he wakes up every hour or 2 (every half hour last night b/c he had a fever.














and dh needs sleep more than I do. I function pretty well w/out it, he doesn't, and he has to work.


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## newbymom05 (Aug 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Here is another old post about sleep issues: HTH, Pat

I'm sorry if you explained this in your post, but were you nursing in a chair/elsewhere and then setting him asleep on the bed? If you were cosleeping, didn't he wake up and want to nurse when you came to bed?

Thanks,your post was helpful--I'm desperately trying to connect the dots before we all lose it from sleep deprivation.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newbymom05* 
I'm sorry if you explained this in your post, but were you nursing in a chair/elsewhere and then setting him asleep on the bed? If you were cosleeping, didn't he wake up and want to nurse when you came to bed?

Thanks,your post was helpful--I'm desperately trying to connect the dots before we all lose it from sleep deprivation.

No, I couldn't move him that far. I was sitting in the bed, nursing, gently removed the nipple. Did. Not. Move. Another. Inch. until ds was asleep for exactly 10 minutes. Then I could set him down on the bed next to me, while continuing other sleep associations (tapping, shusshing, gentle chest pressure, stroking his forehead, etc.), and he'd remain asleep.

Gradually, the other sleep associations were all that were needed to resettle him, without nursing. But, it was a very attentive and engaged process of delatching. For a period of time, this same l-o-n-g process of delatching was repeated with EACH night wakening. But, the resettling was shortened gradually as the other sleep associations induced the sleep. We'd couldn't have lived without co-sleeping. Ds is very sensory seeking to this day. Some babies can't tolerate the stimulation of added sleep associations and resettle.

Hope that helps,
Pat


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## newbymom05 (Aug 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
We'd couldn't have lived without co-sleeping. Ds is very sensory seeking to this day. Some babies can't tolerate the stimulation of added sleep associations and resettle.

Hope that helps,
Pat

Yes, so very helpful! I'm printing out all your posts to share w/ DH. One more quesiton about your last statement:
_Some babies can't tolerate the stimulation of added sleep associations and resettle_

I'm not sure I understand--how does that tie into cosleeping? Sorry to be so







: --I need sleep!


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newbymom05* 
Yes, so very helpful! I'm printing out all your posts to share w/ DH. One more quesiton about your last statement:
_Some babies can't tolerate the stimulation of added sleep associations and resettle_

I'm not sure I understand--how does that tie into cosleeping? Sorry to be so







: --I need sleep!

Well, a friend's baby was sensory overloaded by cosleeping. And it is a touchy subject here, but each baby is different.

Pat


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## swampangel (Feb 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Well, a friend's baby was sensory overloaded by cosleeping. And it is a touchy subject here, but each baby is different.

Pat


That's our story. I cosleep 1/2 the night now and it works really well. If we spent the whole night together, he'd be up so much more. This way we all get more sleep and there's no crying.

As far as NCSS, it didn't work for us. She talked about putting pressure under the baby's chin when you pull them off the nipple...this just pissed of my ds to the extreme. What works for him is pressure on the top of his head. I just keep my arm over his head and apply a little bit of pressure when he starts to stir...it settles him right back down.

So what I got from it is that you might stumble upon things that help over time and you just have to keep trying different things to find what works. That's what I've been sticking with now and my babe is 10mos and finally becoming a better sleeper.


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## SandraS (Jan 18, 2007)

I said no, but that's misleading. Never did it. I simply followed my children's cues, never read a parenting/sleep book in my life.


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## rootzdawta (May 22, 2005)

I voted yes but then I thought about it . . . ds is 18 mos. and still gets up 2-3 times a night. The only thing that worked for me is the actual getting him to go to sleep and take naps. Having a definite routine with ds made it so that we didn't have to beg and plead for him to go to sleep. Once the routine is complete, he practically puts his own self to bed. It started working at around 9 or 10 mos. with him and I really really struggled before then with getting him to go to sleep. But like I said, he doesn't stay asleep.

I think more than anything else, sleep issues are just something you have to ride out. I will not do CIO and so really, this is the only safe place where I can b**ch and moan about my 18 m.o. not sleeping through the night. I wish I had known what I was signing up for before I had ds so that I could have been better prepared mentally but . . . I wouldn't change it for the world. I know he'll soon outgrow it and I'll be saying "Remember when he would wake up 3 times at night . . . I thought he'd never stop doing that".


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## josh&davesmomme (Feb 24, 2006)

For my first son I never heard of attachment parenting, cosleeping etc. all the mainstream books suggested CIO, one even went as far as to say a mother was cowardly if she didn't do it this way. I also had *well meaning* family saying the same thing, so when this book fell into my lap- it _did_ help-no ds didn't magically start sleeping through the night but I leaned about things like routines and cosleeping. The night waking logs were a pain and made me realize how often he was getting up, and watching the clock all night was rediculous! So while many of the techniques weren't that helpful the book in general opened my eyes to: one that it was normal for baby to wake, and two that establishing a routine and cosleeping could improve our quality of sleep and maybe the length, which it did!


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## gaialice (Jan 4, 2005)

I voted no, the book was not helpful, not one bit hepful, in fact it was even bad for us! It really spoiled the first months of my dd2's life for me, even more so than her awful reflux did. I kept trying the pantley withdrawal technique, which was plainly not working. I obsessed that she was not getting the sleep she needed. I mean -- how can you make a baby sleep if whenever you put her down she throws up, unless the surface you're putting her to sleep on is so reclined upwards that the baby will fall off.... grrr.... In retrospect, my only strategy in those months should have been surviving the fatigue and the ordeal and save any energy to mother my dd1 decently. The sleep obsession really really sucks.


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## TinyBabyBean (Oct 18, 2003)

I voted no. Tried it with my fourth. With all five of my children, one breastfed only till 4 months, one till 6 months, one till 3, one still nursing at 4 1/2, and one still nursing at 2 1/2:

The only thing that worked was time. Even with the ones who went on a bottle (sadly, i know) did not sleep through the night until they were about 4-6 years old, depending on the personality. My most independant was at 4 years old sleeping through the night and my most dependant one was at 6 years old. I actually have to say this seems about right based on when they should be weaned (by weaned i mean weaned themselves as nature would have it) and I am starting to think this is how it is intended to be. With all the night waking it gives mom a chance to check surroundings to make sure "the cave" is still safe and baby checks in with mom. I am also convinced now that this lack of sleep does not affect a nursing mom the way it would a non nursing mom or other random human suffering from insomnia. Nature is always perfect. I think the only solution is to relax and enjoy each moment because soon they pass and we want those nursing moments back.


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## ecoteat (Mar 3, 2006)

I said no, but I hesitated to do so. I liked the overall attitude of the book and found many of the suggestions helpful. We took the sleep charting a little too seriously and have months of sleep charts! But any improvement in sleep we have seen I don't attribute to NCSS. For a "program" that takes SO long to implement, you are going to see changes whether you are following the book or not. I got the feeling that the book almost misleads parents into thinking that if they just keep trying her suggestions for 10 more days (and 10 more, and 10 more...) that it would work. But in fact, the baby may be shifting sleep needs/routines regardless of what the parents are doing.


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## coobabysmom (Nov 16, 2005)

My DS's response to the PPO is "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO", said louldy, in very pissed off toddler-ese. I stopped the techinque and put down the book, for now...


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## haleyelianasmom (Nov 5, 2005)

I just took this book out, though I haven't read it yet. DD has a lot of sleep issues, especially when teething or learning something new it seems. However I've heard about the "sleep window" thing, not sure it works.


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## Mia's Momma (Mar 2, 2007)

It gave me some new ideas... and a deeper understanding of why we shouldn't allow our babes to CIO!


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## TattooedMama (Aug 31, 2005)

I voted No, but need to explain. I read it for ds#2 around 6-9 months when he was nursing every hour all night long and not napping unless attached to someone or the breast. It sounded like too much work.







: I read the toddler version later and it was still too much work.







: I was tired!!!!! I couldn't stay awake long enough to write a sleep log! I could barely roll over and switch breasts. I think it sounds GREAT in theory; and all the sleep books I have read have offered good advice that I have incorporated, but..... I am a tired, lazy mama. That's why I co-sleep. I could never stay awake during a night feeding to shove the baby back over into the co-sleeper.








I do think it is a great book though, if you have the fortitude to stick with it. Maybe I wasn't tired or desperate ENOUGH!


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## *Amy* (Jun 16, 2004)

No, it didn't really work for us. I did learn a lot about sleep cycles, and it did help us to create a bedtime routine, so I will say that the book does have some benefit.

We tried it in two different cycles, when DD was around 9 mos, and then again around 11 mos. The PPO just made her angry, and the constant clock-watching just made me even more obsessed with it, and more resentful of how frequently she was waking. We had many months of DD waking every 45-90 minutes, all night. And TinyBabyBean, I'm sorry to disagree with you, but it was incredibly hard on me, physically and mentally.

She's 15 months now, and sleeping 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 hours at a stretch, but I think the only thing that has really made a difference is transitioning her into her own sleeping space. She's now in the pack 'n play right next to our bed, and I actually get up and take her to the rocking chair to nurse her when she wakes. I found that if I nursed her in bed, she would latch on and only nurse for 30 seconds or so, and then drift off to sleep - with my nipple in her mouth! So of course she was getting hungry more often at night (and I wasn't getting any good sleep, and my back was always in knots!!). Now, I take her into her room, nurse her fully from both breasts, and then put her back into her PnP. I usually bring her back into bed with us between 5:00 and 6:00am, but her sleep is always very restless when she's in bed with us...so mainly that time is more for cuddling and nursing for comfort than sleeping.

I guess what I have come to think about the whole sleep issue is that there is no magic cure or easy solution. Some kids are sound sleepers from the beginning and some aren't, and I think that there is really only so much you can do about it if your child is one of the latter.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Bumping.

Pat


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## vstaudac (May 15, 2007)

I read the book - we have a routine - he still can't fall asleep until 9 pm - he still nurses 2 times at night (19 months old) - but I don't mind. THe 1:00 am nursing is when I get a glass of water and the 5 am one makes me up to say goodbye to my husband. THe Pantley Pulloff - he have done it every night for 6+ months......
But i feel rested....so no worries.. .he's in bed with us so it's easy.


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## prettypixels (Apr 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rzberrymom* 
It didn't work for us. Absolutely none of the methods worked (and I followed it to the letter), which just made me frantic. And I got obsessed with the clock--I was either awake wondering why the heck the methods weren't working, or I was awake celebrating that she just slept 30 minutes longer than the last stretch. Crazy.









OK... no offense, seriously, but I think that is more you than the book. Honestly she doesn't tell you to stay awake staring at the clock all night long... and of course anyone can choose to log or not log. The reason for the logs (which are only to be done every 10 days) is so you can see when there is SOME IMPROVEMENT. If you're expecting it to be perfection after ten days, yikes you'll be disappointed. But SOME IMPROVEMENT.

In my case SOME IMPROVEMENT (sigh) means that my baby now will let go of the nipple while still just barely awake and sometimes just go to sleep. It also means we occassionally get a 3 hour stretch of sleep. Which is a big improvement from up every 45 min all night long. But obviously, it's not where I want to be!!!!! So was it successful? I suppose we have to define success...


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## wombatclay (Sep 4, 2005)

I said yes... but I guess it depends on what you mean.









I think the titles is a little misleading, since she points out over and over again that there is no one way to help a child sleep (so no "solution"). Each child is different, each family is different, and both the child and family change with time so something that does/does not work one week may not the next. I think the real value of her books (I have NCSS and the toddler version and prefer the toddler one) is that they provide a pretty clear description of "normal" sleep needs at different ages and then offer the reader dozens of different ideas which can be customized into the sleep plan that can work for you, your child, and your situation.

I never did a sleep chart and honestly didn't see them as a necessary part of the program...so I'm surprised how many mamas mention them! Especially since everyone seems to dislike doing them.







I did put a paper by the bed and made a mark each time we woke up...it helped me realize that I had it a lot better than some mamas! But that was just one or two nights every couple of months.

Anyway, the toddler book helped me nightwean dd1 during my pregnancy, and when dd1 was younger it helped us create a sleep routine that worked for everyone. Now with two little ones it's helped me keep dd1's nap on track and although dd2 is still in the newborn "sleep a lot" phase I've been re-reading things to help me handle things that may come up. And it's the book I suggest to all my friends since it supports co-sleeping and breastfeeding.


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## timneh_mom (Jun 13, 2005)

Nahh... my kids don't do anything "sleep" by the book, unless the book talks about not sleeping. The only way I got my son to sleep better was to gently but firmly get him used to the crib. It's because I was 12 weeks pregnant and his keeping me up until that point was making me go totally nuts from being so tired. He regressed a bit when DD was born.

She is a pretty bad sleeper and so far putting her to bed early has backfired, it's just made her stay up MUCH later (because she thinks going to bed at 7 is a nap). I usually have to "help" her back to sleep every 45 minutes during naps and supposedly after a week they learn to do it themselves, well, she did it this morning but I will see if it's consistent after that.

Books just never have helped my kids. I've had to rely on my own instincts and try to follow their natural patterns (within reason) instead of putting them on a schedule.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Bumping to share with the mamas on the other NCSS thread.

Pat


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## riomidwife (Sep 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Amy** 
No, it didn't really work for us. ........The PPO just made her angry...... I found that if I nursed her in bed, she would latch on and only nurse for 30 seconds or so, and then drift off to sleep - with my nipple in her mouth! So of course she was getting hungry more often at night (and I wasn't getting any good sleep, and my back was always in knots!!).

this is our situation. i've only skimmed the book, but the PPO doesn't really work here, at least it hasn't yet. for those that is has worked for, how long (weeks?) did you have to do it before your child nursed efficiantly then went to sleep?

ds will do go on and off doing the PPO thing for 30 minutes each nursing. and we're up every 1-2 hours at 5 months. i can't nurse side-lying either for the above reasons. he'll just snack on and off all night because he's never getting a full belly.


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