# consensual living tribe 2009!!!



## umami_mommy

anyone want to get consensual for 2009?


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## boigrrrlwonder




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## mama in the forest

I'm here. Consenually.


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## cutekid

I am here, although I am pretty new to consensual living. I have found it easier to do with my older step kids than with my 4 year old.

I am here to learn and try.

Denise


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## umami_mommy

okay, i'll start!

we are moving again!! we left our house of 6 years and couldn't move to our new house so we ended up at my mom's. for 6 weeks!! and now we close on our new house thursday and we have to move again. and any change makes my 6 yo the most uncooperative and grumpy kid ever!!

how to deal with stress, a uncooperative kid, a toddler with no fear and a stressed out DH???


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## AngelBee

Lurking mostly.....but here







:


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## lurve

consensually here. at least trying really, really hard. really hard.


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## Theoretica

:


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## Cherie2

Oh I am in









I joined the cl group on yahoo about a year ago after learning about it here on mdc. I so love reading about cl and how people have managed to apply it to their lives. I try (and my son helps me a great deal) to incorporate cl into my life. It can be a difficult concept especially for me to convey to other family members in particular my dh. It seems the older we are the more set in a hierarchy mindset we are .. lol

So, I would like to live my life consensually it feels to me to be so natural and right - and am working to break some old hardwired behaviors and thought patterns.


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## umami_mommy

should we discuss what some of the stumbling blocks are? i'd love to hear what others wrestle with.

we are in the middle of moving (again) and so i'll likely be MIA for the next few days.


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## nolonger

I'm here and new, or else trying again. I've read the book, belong to the yahoo group, and introduced the concept to my 19 and 17 year olds who at least agree in principle, but still don't seem to apply it very well when interacting with each other or the toddler.

I'm not perfect either.

.


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## Keeta

:


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## Cherie2

Dh and ds butt heads so much these days ... its like they both want to prove to the other that they have power and are in charge. I can sit and talk with ds and quickly get to the point where he agrees that its really about solutions - and then he will attempt to solve the issue. Dh is a harder nut to crack. Of course he easily falls back into the old tapes of parents are in charge and I need to tell him what to do because he is a kid and I know better... sigh its exhausting .. and I don't know my CL lingo well enough to express it very easily. So while he agrees to a CL philosophy he (well we all do really) have a hard time implementing it.


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## Arduinna

I'm so here







:


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## LauraN

I'm here, too







. I'm brand-new to CL, just joined the yahoo group and am in the first week of trying to implement it in my family. We had one awesome day and one really hard day so far... I'm still doing a lot of reading, though, so little by little we'll get there...


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## poiyt

Im subbing for the first time here! My biggest struggle is living consensually with DH...I find with my daughter I have a much easier time letting go of things, and working on solutions (as much as possible with a 16.5month old) then I am with my DH. My second hang up is how to get him to work together with me on a consistent basis. Im trying to get it to happen naturally without giving it a label or "teaching" him anything, but am unsure how to influence his actions in the way I would like (and I believe he would like, as we both agree to RU, GD and AP..) Im interested to be here!


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## NinaBruja

here and on the yahoo group.
theres so much to learn


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## umami_mommy

struggling with medicine here. DS (6.5) has a yucky cough and asked me to take him to the doc after he refused my suggestions of nasal irrigation and some herbs to thin the mucus. the doc gave him some asthma meds and something the thin the mucus. he's still refused to take the meds. it wasn't a simple thing to get him to the doc. we don't have a new doc yet, we had to drive all the way to the old doc, the 2 of them were monsters while we were waiting.... and in the end he wouldn't take the meds anyway. thoughts?

struggle number 2 is DD (almost 2) doesn't want to wear a diaper anymore. but she only gets to the potty about 60% of the time. i am sick of cleaning up pee (and poop too) everywhere. i am working on getting trainers for her... but man they are expensive and pullups don't work.

<sigh>







: i feel worn out.


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## Chrilynhawk

Someone fill me in - what is consensual living? I'm very interested to find out!


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## AngelBee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *honeybeedreams* 
struggling with medicine here. DS (6.5) has a yucky cough and asked me to take him to the doc after he refused my suggestions of nasal irrigation and some herbs to thin the mucus. the doc gave him some asthma meds and something the thin the mucus. he's still refused to take the meds. it wasn't a simple thing to get him to the doc. we don't have a new doc yet, we had to drive all the way to the old doc, the 2 of them were monsters while we were waiting.... and in the end he wouldn't take the meds anyway. thoughts?

struggle number 2 is DD (almost 2) doesn't want to wear a diaper anymore. but she only gets to the potty about 60% of the time. i am sick of cleaning up pee (and poop too) everywhere. i am working on getting trainers for her... but man they are expensive and pullups don't work.

<sigh>







: i feel worn out.









That sounds very tiring.

In my opinion with the potty trainer, her going all over the place is NOT a CL situation for you.







Could you maybe ask her frequently if she has to go and see if she wants to try going potty maybe every 30 mins or so? Then as she has better control, you can both go longer in between.

I also have Mylee help clean it up. Only issue......she likes doing that


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## AngelBee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chrilynhawk* 
Someone fill me in - what is consensual living? I'm very interested to find out!









I am a baby when it comes to the concept. Will try to find you some info.
















Be back!


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## AngelBee

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...sentual+living


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## AngelBee

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...sentual+living


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## Chrilynhawk

Thanks for the links


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## AngelBee

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...=890836&page=5


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## AngelBee

I think I linked one more than once







:


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## umami_mommy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chrilynhawk* 
Someone fill me in - what is consensual living? I'm very interested to find out!









http://www.consensual-living.com/


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## boigrrrlwonder

Can we talk about television, self-regulation, and toddlers? My toddler is obsessed with the television. It's not that I think she watches too much, though I do, but she will choose to watch TV far beyond when she's exhausted and it's causing twice daily meltdowns. I REALLY want to just ban the TV. But I'm gonna stick to my convictions and try to find a mutually agreeable solution. Any advice?


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## AngelBee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boigrrrlwonder* 
Can we talk about television, self-regulation, and toddlers? My toddler is obsessed with the television. It's not that I think she watches too much, though I do, but she will choose to watch TV far beyond when she's exhausted and it's causing twice daily meltdowns. I REALLY want to just ban the TV. But I'm gonna stick to my convictions and try to find a mutually agreeable solution. Any advice?

No














:


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## poiyt

By only suggestion would be....to let her. Make sure there are other fun activities that are available to her but let her chose. Taking away the tv - almost makes it seem like you dont trust her (or any other family member) to make that choice. Its probably just a phase - she probably has just discovered how mesmorizing the tv is - placing boundaries will only make it that much more appealing. Id let it pass - and it will pass. IMO...


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## umami_mommy

i agree. when we temporarily moved to my mom's about 3 months ago, my 22 month old "discovered" TV. she feel in love with thomas, bead in the big blue house, winnie the pooh, etc... she had only ever watched teletubbies before.

she couldn't get enough. we just rode it out and now she is striking a balance between "her" TV, her bother's TV and no TV. some days she watches very little, other days more. some days she wants it on and then she plays and ignores it, and other days she watches until she falls asleep on the couch.









in our family it seems that if we put restrictions on something, then the demand goes way way up.









i would reframe your thinking about it... instead of saying she is obsessed, say "she is really enjoying her TV time." this reframing will make it less negative for you and you can gain some joy by seeing her joy. the more joy to spread all around!







: focus on enjoying her pleasure and thinking about how you can help create more for everyone.

HTH!


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## clothdipemomof2boy

Just starting this concept. I just joined the yahoo group as well and will need lots of help from other moms. Thanks for the thread love to learn new ways to do things.


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## WuWei

Here are some old threads on the Consensual Living yahoogroup addressing some of the challenges of creating solutions with little people.

-Here are a few non verbal toddler threads:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1881

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1905

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1861

This one is about leaving places:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1719

This one is about leaving the park:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1445

This one is about negotiating around boring appointments:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1692

This one is about "too much information":
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1605

Getting shoes on a toddler and other creative problem solving:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1960

CL for a young preverbal toddler:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1895

Some basic CL questions:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1673

Toddlers with a mind of their own and transitions:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1443

Food issues and CL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1123

How to gain cooperation:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1305

Book recommendations:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1279 See also
the files for discussion and links to the recommended reading list.

Pat


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## WuWei

Here are some links to archived CL threads. Many are complex issues
with extensive discussion of nuances, practical application, and tools
for overcoming obstacles to creating mutually agreeable solutions.

Pat

Product oriented parenting:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...ing/message/52

Sleeping issues:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...ng/message/185

Boundaries: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...ng/message/134

Support group vs. discussion list:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...ng/message/131

Questions re: limits and control:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...ing/message/32

Challenges of living consensually:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...ng/message/405

Toddlers making messes:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...ng/message/388

Paradigm shift/ non-coercive vs. consensual:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...ng/message/249

Re: Logical and Natural Consequences:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...ng/message/408
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...ng/message/411
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...ng/message/427
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...ng/message/466

Saying Yes to video games?:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...ng/message/536

Ouch! And biting while nursing:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...ng/message/523

Attached babies and carseats:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...ng/message/542
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...ng/message/543
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...ng/message/547

The stories we tell ourselves:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...ng/message/502

Unconditional Parenting:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...ng/message/226
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...ng/message/299

What to do when a mom is being mean to their child:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...ng/message/424

Underlying needs:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...ng/message/756
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...ng/message/757
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...ng/message/764
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1172

Autonomy:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...ng/message/696
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...ng/message/691

Embracing your self-worth:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...ng/message/699

"Hurt when wrong":
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...ng/message/654

Reality, Judgment and Modeling:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...ng/message/587

Goodbadrightwrong:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...ng/message/601

Persuasion: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1185
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1200

Consensual weaning:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...ng/message/951
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...ng/message/956

Living Consensually with a partner:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1356
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1357

How to gain cooperation:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1293
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1296

Talking about peace with our children:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1289
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1298

Food: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1123

Toothbrushing:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1314
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1316

Even spending between siblings:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1263
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1265

How do you respond when you feel disappointment?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1232
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1233

TCC and CL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1567
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1568

Leaving the park:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1420
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1427

Dealing with issues that can't bend on - i.e. harming animals:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1378

Preschoolers and CL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1633

Too much information:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1605

Only one parent interested in CL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1590

HALT, coercion and CL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1592

Pat


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## WuWei

Is consistency important? What is consistency?:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/5017
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/5038

I don't want my son exposed to children who watch TV or movies:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/5039
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/5044

Validation vs. Fixing?:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/5025
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/5026

Recommended Reading Request:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4984

Child can not get enough of me:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4982

Kids testing boundaries in social situations:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4928

Getting your child ill on purpose (chicken pox):
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4929
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4948

helping dh to understand consensual living:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4914
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/1793

Siblings: To share or not to share, that is the question...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4822
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4804
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4891

How to restore trust and remove guilt with a 4 year old:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4775

Manners?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4851

Teens sneaking out, need some perspective:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4780

Wasting water:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4808

Finding it hard to deal with others and 'praise'...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4745

The Whole Point - I Think I Finally Get It!:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4733

Almost 4 y.o. wanting to nurse instead of eat:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4683

Does CL mean your toddler never cries?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4595

Rude seven year old son---THIS IS LOOONG.:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4664

question about judgment:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4593

CPS may visit our home:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4643

Consensual Eyedrops?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4657

Medications:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4600

Help. Sleep issues.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4555

Another question...about NVC:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4476

Toddler who wont move:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4516

Tick Bite:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4374

dentist and CL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4362
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4365
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4092

Won't take a bath?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4166

Changing clothes:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4131

This isn't consensual!! (re: toy mess):
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4115

goals and living in the moment:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4102

non-coercive, but reasonable bedtimes, boundaries, etc?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4014
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4023
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4030
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4035


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## WuWei

Dietary Question:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/8394

CL and dogs: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/8407

Question about bedtime:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/8437

Dd doesn't like her cousin, should I get involved:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/8402

rage, why parenting is hard:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/8314

Neighbor and I parent differently:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/8288

Help! 4 YO DS wants to learn to use the stove:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/8357

Selling the house:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/8333

Spinning Plates...at Bedtime...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/8305

Being aware of our cycles:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/8278

When your own cup won't fill:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/8216

Toddlers and 'discipline' (long):
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/8143

Struggling with late nights and poop, and lots of other fun stuff:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/8178

toys and storage space and not wanting a ton of STUFF:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/8176

Speaking of Food Issues...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/8108

To Stay in School or Not:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/8048

Struggling with late nights:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/8092

In-laws Testing Parenting Values and Meeting the Needs of dh:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/8010

4 year old Tantrum over Junk Food:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/7967

HUGE messes: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/7951

Video games & my 7 year old:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/7915

thumbsucking woes:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/7858

moving and downsizing:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/7855

If you had to choose just one book...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/7784

Pat


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## WuWei

cl responses to hitting? :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/7641

Hitting: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/7690

Toddlers and hitting:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/7606

Night time and Naps:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/7587

Ds doesn't want me to leave the house without him:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/7595

Bathing Short Cuts:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/7564

When partners disagree:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/7454
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/6948

When spouse parenting styles differ:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/7417

personal possesions or community property?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/7449

Sleep issues: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/7367

How do you deal with defiance?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/7339

The Highchair story:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/6854

Waiting in the proverbial parking
lot:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/6671

slowing down: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/6788

How do you deal with authority figures in society?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/6666

Helping shy child manage attention from adults:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/6663

When My Buttons Are Pushed:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/6736

Ds and food: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/5348

Re: choosing friend:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/6261

there is no right or wrong in anything?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/6323

Authority vs. CL (or...Dh vs. Me):
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/6200

car seats and meeting the need:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/5838

very attached...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/5683

Splinter in her foot!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/6067

Help me understand - why some cant 'do' CL?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/5953

Waldorf Discipline...? and CL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/5982
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/5488

How do you cope with the rest of the world? - feeling lonely:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/5789

Potty learning... or lack thereof!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/5745

Taking care of myself:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/5694

disconnected:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/5648

"violence": http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/5613

If your child won't let you socialize...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/5606

cutting nails:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/5518

music lessons:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/7210

Suggestions to help me night wean consenually:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/7203

Montessori sensitive periods and CL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/7139

excluding/bullying behaviour in young children:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/7187

Wanting ones own way? How to handle?:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/7129

need some help: independent toileting
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/7067

Child centeredness?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/7024

Finding it hard to deal with others and 'praise'...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4745

clean-up and kids:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/5073

Reccommended reading request:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4984

can't get enough of me!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...g/message/4982

Pat


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## WuWei

Please do post particular issues to the yahoogroup. There are over 800 families there who are resources to support you in your journey. But I hope this will help to answer some of the process and philosophy questions related to seeking mutually agreeable solutions with little people.

*CL website:* http://www.consensual-living.com/
*CL Yahoogroup:* http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consensual-living/

Pat


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## WuWei

*Original CL Thread:* http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ght=consensual

Pat


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## linguistmama

I'm here and trying really hard


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## Super Glue Mommy

im new to CL. I want to learn more and have been moving more towards CL these days and loving it!


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## Super Glue Mommy

here is my current 2 issues:

1) DD hits DS2 over and over and over again while I am not in the room. I hear him cry and as I approach the room I hear her keep hitting him. then when I come in the room she says "awe, dont cry baby. gentle gentle." etc giving him hugs and kisses. The only solution I can think of at this time is I can't leave them along together..

2) DS2 is special needs and sometimes he gets mad or excited and shows this with aggression and destructiveness.

First, I try to calm him down and talk to him about what he can do when he feels that way. The destructiveness I ask for his help to clean up. If he doesnt help then I do it but talk to him about how I feel. but if he continues to be destructive while I am cleaning I walk with him to his room and set him up witha quiet activity to do while I put away whatever he was trashing the house with. He doesn't like this idea, but cannot verbalize any other ideas. MY only other idea at the time is to keep these types of toys where he cannot get to them.

as for the aggressiveness, I have to comfort the hurt child first. While I am doing this my son sometimes continues to be aggressive. So I've been moving him to his room (the safest room in the house) and tell him I will be there soon to help him calm down. Take care of hurt child. Then come back and apologize for making him wait and explain why he had to wait. Talk to him about how he was feeling and what we can do in the future. IDK what is the best way to approach this (aside from trying to prevent it which we do also)?


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## AmyB736

I'm here!







: and subbing....

I'm kinda new to consensual living, more new to the name not the practice, I just recently learned that there's a name to how were living, and I love it!


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## umami_mommy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Super Glue Mommy* 
here is my current 2 issues:

i think it's a great idea to not leave a 2 year old alone with a baby. my 2 year old is a pirate. she hits the cats with heavy toys, pees down the heat vent (after removing her clothes), pours her juice into her brothers food, puts his clothes, shoes and food into the toilet, writes on things with sharpie markers she gets by pushing chairs over to cupboards, climbs up, finds them and then used them to destroy things, writes on my computer screen with anything she can find, hits her brother in the head with sippy cups and remotes and friday she poured an entire cup of water on her dad's keyboard! and i watch her pretty closely. she's done all this while i have been in the bathroom, on the phone or helping her bro with something. i can't imagine what she would do with a baby. DS was 4. 5 when she was born and he did some crazy stuff to her himself!

DS has some SNs too and i just do the best i can with both my kids and my HNs DH. usually i try to comfort both kids at once. usually i have to wait for DS to calm down before i can talk to him, so i just leave him alone.

it sounds like you are doing great, (probably better than me) so don't stress!!


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## mrs*kewpie*pie

here mostly as a learner and a lurker


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## Super Glue Mommy

we were struggling with DS1 taking baths - which he used to love. The more I pressed the issue the more of a power struggle it became (no surprise there right) I had at the time taken the approach of validating say I understand he doesnt like it but we need to to be healthy. I doubt he heard me over his screaming though. Obviously this was not working (not to mention it WASNT a healthy thing to do to damage him emotionally that way) and so I started a more consensual approach. We agreed on 1-2 baths a week and only wash his hair when it needed it. Go figure, after 2 weeks of that he wants to take a bath every night now!

The same can be said for tooth brushing (we were once in the forced tooth brushing camp and after holding him down way too many times even though it felt like I was abusing him to do so, we finally stopped and when we did, suddenly he didnt mind his teeth being brushed again.)

same with face washing.

I feel like I figured out an invaluable secret. The more I pressure my children to do something, or to do something a certain way, the more control I try to exert, the less cooperating I receive and the worse I feel.

When I value their opinions and feelings as much as my own, and work with them to find mutually agreeable solutions, things are magically resolved.

I admit, the results are not always automatic, but they are becoming more and more quickly willing to help me meet my needs now that I respecting theirs. I can see how at first they were unsure of this, how they had stored hurt surrounding certain issues, but things have been improving.

Still struggling with aggression though - and with the manic episodes with my son...


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## umami_mommy

da, i agree. but i think the secret is not that it somehow "works" or "doesn't work." but that you come to value the relationship more than the outcome or results. this isn't always easy (like in the case of medicine giving and getting to appts on time), but i think the pay off is really a long term thing.

so interesting to me that the little "tricks" i used to get DS to cooperate at this this age... just annoy DD. if i use a puppet to ask her if i can change her diaper or have the toothbrush ask her if i can brush her teeth, she will usually rip it out of my hand and scream NO!! ha ha. and DS is supposed to be the uncooperative one!!


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## poiyt

Hello!

So, I did an interview for a semi-local large newspaper - and I guess did not actually realize how many people would read it...lol..

I was slightly misquoted, or morelike - the bits and pieces of what was quoted are made to seem like something I didnt say..but that's not the point - I knew that could and does happen when you do an interview..

What i was prepared for was the emails/facebook msgs and what not I would get from family/friends basically attacking me and criticizing me. After reading those, then finding the article, and then reading the comments to the article...Im feeling really down, and really unsure. Yes, I know its just a moment..

Anyways...can you guys send me some good vibes - and I dont know..share why and how CL has helped you and your family...I know we do that a lot, but I could really use some good stuff right now...I just feel really personally attacked, and hadnt prepared myself..


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## WuWei

Lindsay, sorry to hear about your experience. Please understand that everyone has a different path and that yours is not wrong. Nor are their beliefs.

Pat


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## umami_mommy

you know, i have found that nothing seems to enrage some people more than a free child. i found a quote from i believe john hotz that said something about the person who is in chains wants to chain other people too, esp. i think, children.

so i don't know if this makes you feel any better or not, but i feel like the louder someone protests CL the less anyone is caring for and trying to meet their needs. it's really a measure of their own hurt and neglect. sad, but true, i'm afraid.

for our family CL works (as much as we are bale to do it) becuase it works for my children, esp my DS and DH who both have "special needs" and it fulfills my need for non-violent parenting. other families likely do it for other reasons. cooperation is a skill. one my DS and DH are really really bad at. and CL helps them learn more each day about cooperating. something we clearly do not have enough of in this world. so it's my bit of activism too.

if you feel the need to respond to others, you can simply say "i understand how baffling CL must seem to you." or "thank you for your concern, CL works very well for my family though." or a gentle "i don't think judgment ever helped any situation." should shut them up.

and never ever read the comments at the end of a news story, you should have read what people wrote about a 19 yo who died from alcohol poisoning near here. it was shameful. people who comment on news stories are sickos who just want to hurt others.


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## honeyhaze

I have a newborn and I'm interested in implementing some CL principles from the beginning. I know it's a little early, but is there anything I can try and do at this early stage to start us off on a good foot?









Thanks,
Mariah


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## linguistmama

Sending you happy vibes! I'm sorry that happened to you







We are not completely CL, but try really hard and I love how we are all more connected and happier overall.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poiyt* 
Hello!

So, I did an interview for a semi-local large newspaper - and I guess did not actually realize how many people would read it...lol..

I was slightly misquoted, or morelike - the bits and pieces of what was quoted are made to seem like something I didnt say..but that's not the point - I knew that could and does happen when you do an interview..

What i was prepared for was the emails/facebook msgs and what not I would get from family/friends basically attacking me and criticizing me. After reading those, then finding the article, and then reading the comments to the article...Im feeling really down, and really unsure. Yes, I know its just a moment..

Anyways...can you guys send me some good vibes - and I dont know..share why and how CL has helped you and your family...I know we do that a lot, but I could really use some good stuff right now...I just feel really personally attacked, and hadnt prepared myself..


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## umami_mommy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *honeyhaze* 
I have a newborn and I'm interested in implementing some CL principles from the beginning. I know it's a little early, but is there anything I can try and do at this early stage to start us off on a good foot?









Thanks,
Mariah


hi mariah,

i think respect and responding to the baby's needs are key.

many times i hear people use a mocking or teasing tone when babies cry or express their displeasure. just taking them seriously when they are upset and being respectful would be a good way to start off consensual living with a baby. really all the practices of AP.


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## linguistmama

Besides what the PP said I would join the Yahoo CL group if you haven't already to read about some of the issues and solutions that are given there. It's taken me awhile to wrap my head around CL and I wish I could just read the whole list from the beginning.









For *me* as a parent it has been important to work on my issues from my childhood. My children have definately brought out the best and the worst for me to deal with. There are lots of suggestions for books on the yahoo list and I have also found journaling to be helpful. What has helped the most is energy work like Reiki to clear out old energies I was hanging onto and didn't need. So if this applies to you maybe you could start/keep working on them now.


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## poiyt

I completely recommend journalling as well - its a great way to get everything out, and work through thoughts you've had during the day or situations you dont know how to handle or whatever....


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## Super Glue Mommy

I'm open to guidance in this scenario, any ideas on how I could have handled it better.

DS is newly potty learned. He has been having mostly accidents lately, and seems to do well with reminders. I have asked him if he wants to go back to diapers and he has said no, so that's fine. A reminder looks like this "You haven't used the potty in a while, want to try before lunch?" or "If you have to go potty, I can go with you and keep you company." or "You are really into your playtime right now. Can we take a break to use the potty, and I will make sure that toy is still there for you when we get back?" or "It's been a while since you used the potty, if you want to use the potty but don't want to stop playing you could bring that toy with you?" (if its a bigger toy I will even carry it for him). If he doesn't want to go I don't push it, though I admit I have some words running through my mind when he has an accident 5 minutes after a potty suggestion lol. I don't want to pressure him though.

Today he wanted to go with my husband to run errands. I told him I would like him to get dressed and wash his face first - no problem. He did wants to run around and jump on the bed in between, I let him know I want to jump on the bed too and would join him after he got dressed, of course he was welcome to jump on the bed all he wanted. He jumped for a bit, then got dressed, then we jumped some together. So anyway, here he is all ready to go....

I asked if he would like to use the potty before he went, since he hasn't been in awhile and it might be hard to hold it for a long time while with Daddy. He said he didn't have to go. So dad let him know "I wouldn't like pee in my car." and I offered some solutions "Would you like to wear a diaper just this once? bring a towel to sit on? or try to use the potty before we go?" He doesn't talk a great deal, so he didn't have any suggestions of his own to offer, but he agreed to try to use the potty before we go - the underlying issue was he was afraid daddy would leave with out him - and he asked for us to give him 2 minutes and I told him that daddy wouldn't leave without him and that he would wait until he was done trying to go potty. So, he tried to go potty, and he did.

oh, the other thing was - he could still go with daddy even if he didn't use the potty, wear a diaper, or sit on a towel - but DH told him that if he had an accident this time that next time he would want DS to try one of the solutions (trying to go potty, bringing a towel, or another solution) before going with him.

insight and ideas for improvement welcome. I mean, obviously this worked for us, and DS was happy with the arrangement as well, I know I wasn't intending to be coercive, but sharing these examples may give me insight towards other future situations as well... perhaps this was *not* a good example of living consensually, and I could learn something here.


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## doublyblessed

Quote:


Originally Posted by *umami_mommy* 
i would reframe your thinking about it... instead of saying she is obsessed, say "she is really enjoying her TV time." this reframing will make it less negative for you and you can gain some joy by seeing her joy. the more joy to spread all around!







: focus on enjoying her pleasure and thinking about how you can help create more for everyone.

HTH!

oh i love this! thanks for reminder to re-label my thinking and outlook on things...

i'm subbing and learning also....is this related to living a radical unschooling philosophy of life/unconditional parenting? seems like it. i likey!!!









i look forward to learning more about this...







:


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## doublyblessed

anyone know of any good solid ones? preferably in the west...could be southern, like new mexico or arizona...even could be in mexico/central or even south america. i feel like this is what my family needs...i am tired of living amongst what seem like aliens/drones... i want like-minded consensual community of other families...and nature. and animals...not something in the middle of a large town or city...

thanks!







:


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## chanibell

I sent you a Pm but all it said was that the co-housing convention is in Seattle this yr,if you wanted to check it out. And your inbox is full


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## LabileLotus

Just started reading more about this and am very interested so I'm going to subscribe


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## poiyt

I totally meant to post this. This is the link to the article I was mentioned in about CL..that caused so much grief in my family..lol http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...ifeFamily/home


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## HikeMama

i didn't think the article was really negative- it seemed to showcase thoughtful, respecting parenting.


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## boigrrrlwonder

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JamieHornych* 
i didn't think the article was really negative- it seemed to showcase thoughtful, respecting parenting.

It definitely seemed negative to me, since they ended the article with an expert slamming consensual living. For what it's worth, though, I saw part of this article in a newspaper through news of the weird, and it did not show the negative ending.

I'd forgotten about it, though. I'd love to talk about it more, if it won't rile anyone's feathers too much. It sounds like it's a sensitive topic for you, poiyt. But when my partner and I read the article, the doctor example really hit us. I know taking it out of context of the larger relationship may make it look very different, but one of the things I've struggled with the most in my CL journey is that when the process breaks down and often having thoughts when this process breaks down that what I need is more important. From my perspective, I give way to when she needs something, even if it means sacrificing something I need. But at times when it's two in the morning and I'm falling asleep on my feet and my daughter is yelling at me because she wants me to stay awake and play with her, I have a really hard time viewing her need to play with me as equally legitimate as my need for sleep.

Maybe this is off-topic. Anyway.


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## poiyt

I am totally open to discussing it








The only sensitive part was the critique from my family, and the fact that I was misquoted...or misunderstood...

I think for me, in regards to your general query about whose needs supercede who - I have two thoughts. 1) As an adult you are better able to assess needs, you are also able to be of the mindset that things can be just as fine/happy/"good" if you dont get what you want. There doesnt always need to be compromise - because its not a compromise - its simply a change, and you can recognize that you can be just as happy and satisifed with the change as with your original want. I dont think children have that ability - I think thats something we must show them. Its okay to want things, its just as okay not to get exactly what we want. And 2) Sometimes a need isnt directly expressed. Her wanting to play at 2am...maybe thats not the need. Thats just the result of the need. I cant say what the need would be as its not my child, and every child and every individual is going to be different.

I just got a daily groove the other day...and it really struck me (well..a few have). Anyways. it was about wants. In it, he talks about a child wanting a bike, and you cant get them the bike. He speaks about finding joy in the wanting of the bike, and dreaming of the bike - and that its just as fine and can be fun to not get the bike but to be in the moment of wanting the bike - of course he says it much better....I really recommend subscribing to the daily groove if you arent already.


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## HikeMama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boigrrrlwonder* 
It definitely seemed negative to me, since they ended the article with an expert slamming consensual living.

oh... I guess I have a tendency to ignore "expert" opinions I don't agree with. Sorry about that...


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## earthmama4

I tried this for a while but returned to a mostly authoritative parenting-style with CL leanings. I was trying to incorporate the ideas into a very competitive, rivalry-filled house of 3 school-age/teenage boys with the teen having behavioral special needs, and total CL wasn't working. I am still very interested because I think it CL is a good idea in theory and I think the values of it are so much more conducive to family harmony than many other styles of communication, discipline, etc.

It seems though that CL theory has a tendency to be misinterpreted and mispracticed in real life in ways that make it stressful on everyone or at least on mom and dad. It is easy to make the pendulum swing from one extreme to the other, going from where Mom and Dad are "in charge" to a point where adult needs no longer considered as an equal part of the equation. For example, if mom is tired and needs to sleep and DC won't go to bed so mom just stays up, that's not CL as I understand it. A child pooping and peeing on the floor where others have to walk is not CL. It is equally important IMO to meet childrens needs and also teach them to help meet the needs of others which required giving up some of our own needs. Leave out the second part and that's not CL.

The other struggle I see is a lack of understanding of early child development. I don't mean that in an offensive way, so please no one take it that way, its just my educational background and I see it conflicting _at times_ with the way CL is implemented with young children. Children are not born fully quipped to converse their needs nor understand cognitively everything that you are saying to them. Its a developmental process that takes the first several years. Its part of their growth. I have a hard time with parents asking questions of 2 or 3 year olds that are better suited for a 8 to 10 year old to answer. Many problem-solving questions are in this category. Children need an observational period to learn how to problem solve, observing good adult role-models before they can be questioned about solutions. They must see effective solutions in practice before they can be expected to understand and contribute to problem-solving. Language development and cognitive development are separate areas of development so even children who exhibit high verbal skills may not understand the abstractions and representational thinking of an adults, and vice versa, a child may be advanced cognitively but unable to articulate it. Young children can express needs and in CL their needs would be considered equally valid, but I think it is more developmentally appropriate for the parent to meet the need calmly and without too many questions or abstract thoughts until after age 7 to 8.

One last concern is the need in early childhood for security. There is a security in knowing that your needs will be met by someone bigger and stronger than you. A parent always going to the child to make decisions could potentially cause a child to feel vulnerable and insecure, when the design of the approach is to create the opposite effect. I am sure this varies widely with each child's temperament as to whether this occurs. I can see within my own family a child who would have thrived with CL from birth, whose strong temperament often clashed with his fathers (XH) rigid rules, and another child who seems to really need and value parental guidance and authority in a way the other resents.

So one might need to approach CL differently with toddlers than teenagers. In our house we'll have both shortly so i am trying to figure out what approach will work best for us as a whole and not make me crazy in the process. Maybe I don't know enough about it to implement it effectively myself. For example, my son, 13, agreed to go to the zoo this morning during family breakfast. Now he says he won't go, that zoos are stupid. He cannot be left alone in our house because he steals money (he has behavioral issues that are supposed to be helped by CL but I find it very hard to practice it with him).

Ok...had to leave this post sitting here while DS had major behavioral blowup and I spent too much time on it (the post, not the blow-up ) to let it go...so I'll just end here and hope its coherent and of value to someone!


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## barefootmama0709

Cross-posted because I put it on the wrong thread-that's what I get for multi-tasking!
I am finding that this thread really ties into the way I would like to be raising my son-I am very inclined to just let him do as he likes most of the time as long as he isn't hurting himself or anyone else. (He can't eat or paint with the Desitin, for example, but he can smear edible fingerpaint on his head if he really wishes to..he is washable!). I do have many questions though.
My ODS is only 20 months-how does the concept of consensual living and freedom of choice tie into things like bedtime? He is pretty willing to go to bed when he's tired-he crawls in and lays down. What about the nights when he's obviously tired and fighting sleep?
What about naps? He needs one, takes one...isn't always enthused about it though.
How do I implement PLing? He is indicating that he is ready to try the potty...would it be considered consensual if I introduce it??
What do I do if he hits his baby brother??
What if he wants to do something that's obviously dangerous like go into the road?? There obviously isn't a compromise for this sort of situation...do I resort to redirection??
Sorry if my questions seem ignorant or silly...I am at a transitional point with ODS and would like to handle it in a way that makes him feel respected. I have more questions but I can't think of them right now...thanks in advance for any input!


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## spottiew

Quote:


Originally Posted by *earthmama4* 
One last concern is the need in early childhood for security. There is a security in knowing that your needs will be met by someone bigger and stronger than you. A parent always going to the child to make decisions could potentially cause a child to feel vulnerable and insecure, when the design of the approach is to create the opposite effect. I am sure this varies widely with each child's temperament as to whether this occurs. I can see within my own family a child who would have thrived with CL from birth, whose strong temperament often clashed with his fathers (XH) rigid rules, and another child who seems to really need and value parental guidance and authority in a way the other resents.


this is about what i am being told my my kid's preschool director... the whole 'children need limits' etc. which is just not my style, for better or worse. but i don't know what to say/think back to her.


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## umami_mommy

when pondering the "CL" perspective (whatever that is!), i usually turn it around and see how a situation fits on an adult.

my response would probably be something like "*adults* feel better when children have limits. *all* human beings have a need to be free. as long as ______ isn't hurting someone else or threatening his/her life, we don't place artificial limits on our children. if he/she is being risky, we help him/her do whatever safely. how would you feel if someone put arbitrary limits on your behavior?"

i think also, explaining the difference between permissiveness and respecting autonomy is in order. one is about being disengaged from a child, the other is about respecting and trusting a child and his/her need for exploring, being independent and competent.

children, i think, need to believe that someone will be there for them when they need them. i don't think that equals limits. i think children need to understand (over time) how their behavior effects others. i think children need help learning to respect others boundaries. but i don't think they need limits put on their behavior unless it's things like not hurting others, putting their seatbelt on in an airplane, not running into oncoming traffic. i can't stand it when people tell my children not to run, not to climb, not to stand in a shopping cart, not drink out of an open cup. these are all constructed limits that have more to do with adult needs than children's needs.

forcing a child to do something doesn't teach them much. modeling teaches so much more.


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## Epona

subbing


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## spottiew

there are times when he seems to be asking me for limits and direction- which i figure must be consensual since it's his idea and he engages in that interaction... and there are times when it seems needed to 'help' in cases where can't/doesn't help himself. i don't know if this fits with CL, but it seems true for us and meets his needs. i think i would be cruel to watch him suffer being out of control when he doesn't know the repercussions. he doesn't want freedom all the time as far as i can tell. i try (in my mind anyway) to provide structure and support w/o 'rules'- except the rules that he likes to make. but i also try to take care of our family 'rhythm', as that matters to me- he often derails that, then feels lost without it. i wish he had more sense of his own rhythm and regulation of self, but that's always been hard for him.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *umami_mommy* 
when pondering the "CL" perspective (whatever that is!), i usually turn it around and see how a situation fits on an adult.

my response would probably be something like "*adults* feel better when children have limits. *all* human beings have a need to be free. as long as ______ isn't hurting someone else or threatening his/her life, we don't place artificial limits on our children. if he/she is being risky, we help him/her do whatever safely. how would you feel if someone put arbitrary limits on your behavior?"

i think also, explaining the difference between permissiveness and respecting autonomy is in order. one is about being disengaged from a child, the other is about respecting and trusting a child and his/her need for exploring, being independent and competent.

children, i think, need to believe that someone will be there for them when they need them. i don't think that equals limits. i think children need to understand (over time) how their behavior effects others. i think children need help learning to respect others boundaries. but i don't think they need limits put on their behavior unless it's things like not hurting others, putting their seatbelt on in an airplane, not running into oncoming traffic. i can't stand it when people tell my children not to run, not to climb, not to stand in a shopping cart, not drink out of an open cup. these are all constructed limits that have more to do with adult needs than children's needs.

forcing a child to do something doesn't teach them much. modeling teaches so much more.


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