# 2Y3M hitting me and DH - alternatives to time out?



## Bonawich (Jul 1, 2004)

Hello beautiful women! I'm wondering what suggestions you might come up with. My DS is a very sweet, empathetic child, most of the time







Our big problem right now is hitting - him hitting my DH and I and hitting and kicking our cats. Fortunately DS is not doing this so much with anyone else. I have talked with him about it, DH has talked with him - to no avail. He knows he is not supposed to do it and will say he is sorry and give a "sorry hug" when prompted, but then will turn around and do it again. It is driving DH crazy and he really wants to resort to time out. I'm turning to y'all for alternatives...Thanks!

Edited to say that I read the other "hitting thread" - but my son is not doing this out of anger, usually because he either wants attention or wants to get a reaction. In fact, often he laughs when we tell him No Hitting and then hits again.


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## Artmama (Apr 30, 2004)

I have started just picking up my daughter, saying,"If you hit, you have to sit," and holding her in my lap facing away from me. (if she faces me she likes the thrill of the one on one attention and just kind of sees the whole thing as a game.)I hold onto her arms firmly, but gently and talk to her about how we don't hit, we want people(or dogs) or whatever to feel happy. My dd is older (26 months) so I ask her questions about how people feel, etc. I do not let her get up until her body feels calmer to me, and I try to be silent and just sit there holding her, but preventing her from playing for a while, and just calming down. I think it makes an impression, because she wants to get up, but can't, but she is not isolated or told that she is being punished, and there is no withdrawel of affection, but it is clear that you do not get to just continue playing if you hit. It is not acceptable.
When she is calm, I ask, "What can you do to make so and so feel better?" We talk about hugs etc.
We also read a book called Hands are not for hitting'" that I found on the web about twice a day.
I made this up, I don't think there is a way to cure a toddler from hitting completly until they grow out of it. But you have to make it clear that it is not OK and there WILL be a break in the action.


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## sbmama (Jan 8, 2004)

We're dealing with this as well. He also includes one of his usual playmates on his "hit list," which baffles me to no end (unless, of course, he is only doing this to the most important, safe people in his life.) I like the sitting idea -- I've been doing a similar thing of removing him right away to a different part of the room and holding him. But this has gotten more difficult with a new baby at home. The fact that he often laughs and thinks it is all a game just drives me nuts.

I began to worry that he couldn't understand/empathize when other people were sad or hurt. But he'll say things like, "the baby is sad," when he hears one crying. He just can't put the cause and effect together that hitting someone hurts and might make them sad. Developmental, I hope.

I'm interesting to hear what other mamas have to say...

Heidi


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## arimama (Feb 13, 2004)

My son went through a loooong hitting phase. it peaked around 3.5.
He hit when he was mad or bored or excited and on and on...
Absolutly nothing worked until we started holding his hands and saying sternly "you may not hit". We were consistant about it even if the hit seemed kinda playful, so it was clear that hitting was never acceptable.
He really hated having his hands held and would scream and be all dramatic but we held them until he was chilled out, usually about 30 sec to a minute.
within a month the hitting stopped. I cant remember the last time he hit either of us.

I know that some people can get the hitting to stop by simply saying "ouch that hurts mommy, be gentle" but that didnt cut it for my guy.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bonawich*
Edited to say that I read the other "hitting thread" - but my son is not doing this out of anger, usually because he either wants attention or wants to get a reaction. In fact, often he laughs when we tell him No Hitting and then hits again.

I'd say to tell him that you don't like to be hit, and that there are better ways to get your attention. I find that stopping at "no hitting" is practically like asking my son to hit again. But if I say "Don't hit. I don't like it. Do 'x' instead" he is VERY likely to do x. I try to make 'x' as related to his reason for hitting as possible. ie- if he hits me with a book because he wants me to read it, I tell him that if he wants me to read to him, he can put the book in my hand.
Tell him he can make a silly face, or dance, or whatever. I'm sure he'll like your reaction better


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## irinam (Oct 27, 2004)

What about after saying whatever it is you choose to say for "we don't hit" you hit a pillow together?

You said he finds hitting fun and might not realize that it hurts mama / daddy. I know you told him and he heard you. But even if he had been hurt before he might be too young to internalize (or even remember) the feeling

I would get a big pillow (or two) and join him in hitting it, demonstrating what TO do, cuz demonstrating what NOT to do is kinda hard









To the pp - empathy develops over time and (I think) kids are able to act consistently with empathy only much later, around 5? (correct me mamas on the age if I am wrong)


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## Ayala Eilon (Apr 8, 2006)

I like Irinam's idea. In her book, Raising Our Children, Raising Ourselves, which I mentioned elsewhere, Aldort teaches to say yes to the child emotions and intent but not allow to hurt. You should clearly not let her hit. Stop her gently but give her alternative. But I may not say it good enough. Read that book. You sound like you may be lovingly permisive, and also, according to Aldort, that your daughter needs to express power safely. She has a chapter about doing this playfuly.


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## Bonawich (Jul 1, 2004)

Thanks beautiful women for all the suggestions. We have been doing the "if you hit, you sit" and holding his hands alternately with the saying you are sorry and giving a sorry hug. I just feel like he doesn't get it - he doesn't get that hitting hurts at all and doesn't understand why he shouldn't do it.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

I think the very first thing to do when he hits is to move out of range. Unfortunately, I can't see being able to do that and the hit/sit idea, so I guess you would have to choose. I never understand why a child ever gets a second hit in. After you are out of range, then you can address it with "Hitting hurts, do X instead" or whatever. But remember that you are modeling what you would like your child to do if someone hit them. Wouldn't the very first thing be to move so they didn't get hit again? My response was always "Hitting hurts. I am moving away because hitting hurts. When you stop hitting, you can come near to me again, " and then I find something else to do. This gets me out of range, gives him a reason, and demonstrates a coping strategy for being hit, as well as provides a natural consequence. It also does not provide the attention that the child is after to begin with.


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## Ayala Eilon (Apr 8, 2006)

Addressing the hitting is missing the whole point. I have four children. I tried all the ways of teaching not to hit. Meanwhile the child has an emotional need to hit. Until I learned to understand the NEED THAT DRIVES the hitting, there was not result. Or the child would stop hitting in order to comply with my instructions, but then the emotional need came out some other unwanted way
like poop in pants, pee in bed, eating disorders, defiance etc.

So the issue is not the hitting. You must understand WHY he needs to hit.
Don't let him hit. Stop him promptrly or move away, but that's not the solution. It is only a way to stop the symptom. Read the book, Raising Our Children, Raiisng Ourselves and you will know how to detect what is the deep and unconscious issue that drives your child to hit. Then you will cure the cause.
As long as you tell him that hitting is wrong and don't cure the cause he will most likely get worse or find other ways to unleash his distress. Please read that book and learn what no other source teaches. It saved our life with two of our four children.


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## Bonawich (Jul 1, 2004)

Well, at this point, I think he mainly hits to see what sort of reaction he can get. Occasionally he will hit out of anger, and it is very obvious that he is doing that. When that happens I have started trying to say "No hitting x. Hitting hurts. You are hitting because you are angry. Instead of hitting you can say Mama, I'm angry." It is the see what reaction I can get type of hitting that I am having a harder time dealing with...


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## Bonawich (Jul 1, 2004)

Double post, deleted.


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## mamabeca (Oct 3, 2004)

seriously scribing here, because I have a 16 mo old who consistently hits (gently, but that's for the moment, I think) when he isn't getting what he wants. UGh. Going to try to find ROCRO, but our library doesn't have it. Drat! anyone done with their copy???


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ghlight=biting

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...hlight=hitting

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ghlight=biting

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ghlight=biting

These are some older thread about biting and GD interventions.

Pat


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## dharmama (Dec 29, 2002)

my dd has just started hitting recently (we have a newborn) and i've been talking to her about her feelings and encouraging her to do something physical with her hands (clap, snap, open and close etc.). my dd's hitting does not appear to be anger-driven but more excitement and nervous energy....and sometimes frustration when her brother has my attention and she needs me.

one time i suggested that she could hit a pillow but not her brother (or me) and she responded well to that.

the other day in the car she was out of sorts....tired, wanted to nurse etc....and she told me that she needed a pillow. i thought that was pretty interesting and cool that she recognized that she was having a hard time but could use that outlet for her energy.

that's all i can manage while nak-ing. good luck mama. lots of great suggestions here.


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## Amoreena (Sep 10, 2003)

http://www.awareparenting.com/timeout.htm

http://www.awareparenting.com/twenty.htm

on biting:
http://www.awareparenting.com/answer11.htm

Lots more good articles at the site.


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## boricuaqueen327 (Oct 11, 2004)

i am going to read this thread again, it has lots of good info and we are dealing with the exact same thing with dd who is 25 months.


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## sbmama (Jan 8, 2004)

This is really helping me clarify my thoughts and beliefs about how to best interact with DS more globally, not just when he is physically agressive. Thanks to the pp for the great links. It's just the kind of concrete information my sleep-deprived brain can handle at the moment. Hopefully I'll get the chance to read ROCRO. It's on my summer list.

Still







: for more insight.

Heidi


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

Hitting was my big button issue when DD turned 3.

I COMPLETELY, 100% AGREE WITH AYALA EILON. I really can't emphasize it enough.

You know that he understands hitting is not okay. So obviously, "in the moment", he lacks the impulse control to stop. Haven't you ever had one of those moments when you said something you just *knew* you shouldn't, or done something you knew wasn't okay, because you felt a strong emotion and were too tired or drained to control yourself?

Address the cause. If he's angry, show him what he can do (I had my DD stamping her feet at that age as an alternative). If he's seeking attention, give him attention (after you remind him gently that hitting is not okay, ask if he'd like to play a puzzle. and NO this isn't "reinforcing the hitting" unless you never play with him or give him attention in the first place). If he's looking for a reaction, again that is normal. And the best way to prevent it from becoming a fun game is to stay calm and almost "bored" with it. Move out of the way and mutter "We don't hit in this house" and continue with what you are doing. I agree with whoever said you shouldn't be hit twice - move out of the way!

As for the pets, supervise when they are together. Give them a safe exit route, or a safe place they can retreat to if DS.

Advice, if I read your son's birthday correctly he is just over 2. A good rule of thumb for this age, and especially as he moves towards 3, is never EVER stand there and say "don't do X". It's like throwing down the proverbial gauntlet, lol.


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## Amoreena (Sep 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Piglet68*
good rule of thumb for this age, and especially as he moves towards 3, is never EVER stand there and say "don't do X". It's like throwing down the proverbial gauntlet, lol.

Right, because developmentally, they are wired to hear only the part after "don't"







... you say "Don't touch that!" they hear you excitedly saying "touch that!" They are wired to touch, touch, touch, explore, explore, explore. They are driven by their DNA to explore, it is how they develop, how their brains grow, make connections ... and according to some research, it's also the time when they hear someone barking "NO!" at them about every 9 seconds on average or something like that, in our culture, I don't remember the exact number, Joseph Chilton Pearce cited this in a talk I heard him give last fall. He's the author of MAGICAL CHILD. Tough read, great material.


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## VelmaLou (Jan 8, 2006)

My 6 yo was a hitter (started as a biter). I agree with Ayala Eilon.

I do have a couple of comments:

* Moving out of the way is simply not possible with some children. My dd would follow me all over the house, hitting me on the back. Very few mamas understand this and become very outraged at the idea of it (ooh the beautiful memories of a long and heated discussion on a TCS/unschooling list are coming back to me :LOL) . I could not move out of the way unless I locked a door, which is something I adamantly refused to do.

* Offering a pillow will only make the child's aggressive feelings grow. Some studies have been conducted on this; all show that the participants who were given a pillow or boxing thingy were even more aggressive afterwards than those who were given alternative ways to deal with their emotions. Thich Naht Hanh also advocates against the pillow theory.

* "We don't hit in this house." Well, my dd obviously did. I would much rather convey to her how it makes me feel to be hit than to offer a generic (and obviously untrue :LOL )statement like that.

* Impulse control exercises worked pretty well for us (in the end what really helped is that she simply grew out of it :LOL). We started them a bit late in the game, so they might work better for a child who has just started to hit. Daniel Goleman has some good ideas. I can't recall the titles of his books nor the name of his school project. Just Google his name.


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## Ladybug Mama (Oct 11, 2005)

DD1, now 3, never hit, until we had dd2. But, it was short lived and we knew it was a new baby, get Mommy's attention kind of thing. When she would hit (it was always her sister, the new baby!) I would sit her by herself, but I was always close by in the same room and I would talk to her while she sat. It killed her that she couldn't be near me. If she got up or moved over to me, I would sit her back down and tell her she needed to be by herself for a minute because she isn't being gentle. I was very confident that I knew her reason for hitting because she had never done it before and it was only when she was tired and wanted my full attention (ie. if I was paying attention to her sister at the moment). I would talk to her about why we don't hit the baby and I told her that I would help her when she was calm and she could show me and her sister gentleness. Sometimes it only took once, sometimes it took doing this over and over again several times. BUT, the phase was very short lived because there was only one big reason (and recipient) for the hitting. It wasn't her nature to start off with.

NOW, with dd2, now that she's a 2o month old, I'm going absolute bonkers with her hitting! She hits all the time and most people we know!!! She hits me, she hits dh, she hits her older sister, she hits her little playgroup peers, she hits when she's happy, she hits when she's feeling silly, she hits when she's angry (and the angry ones are easier to stop and control, I think she understands that emotion more than the others!). She is a very emotional, cuddly, expressive little girl and I think her feelings of excitement get the best of her. I spoke to my pediatrician about her hitting and he had some really interesting advice. He said that there have been studies on victimology that suggest a bad behavior is repeated less if the "perpetrator" is ignored or given very little attention for the bad behavior, and all the attention is lavished on the victim. He said he tried this technique with his two children and it worked really well. So, having tried most things I was willing to try with dd2 (the technique I used with dd1 does not work with her), I thought I would try it and see what happens. Now, when dd2 hits dd1 (who gets most of her sister's hitting, hair pulling, scratching), I look at dd2 and quickly tell her in a very stern, even voice "Mama does not like hitting. Gentle touches only. You need to play alone now", and I simply go over to dd1 and hug her and tell her that I'm sorry her sister hurt her and I kiss her where she was hurt. I lavish most of my attention on the victim. Most of the time, dd2 just stands there and watches dumbfounded and will now come over and say sorry to her sister, hug her and give her gentle touches, all without me asking. So, I'm now thinking that we're going to grow out of this without too much scarring. We have also dubbed dd2 as a drama queen, she LIKES attention and lots of it. So, I'm thinking that this is the way to go with her. The less attention she gets for hurtful behavior, the better off her victims are going to be. Once recently, when she hit me, I simply moved away and told her that "hurt Mama" and her sister was right next to me. So, I told dd1 that dd2 hurt me and would she kiss my boo boo. dd1 did so and when dd2 saw this, she immediately joined in and she patted me gently and practiced her gentle touches. After she corrects her behavior, I always lavishly praise her. I also had her practice lots of loving touches to her baby doll and I had baby doll give her lots of attention and hugs when she did gentle touches. She really liked this game a lot. I also am dealing with my dd1's feelings getting really hurt when her sister hurts her. We tell her that her sister didn't mean to hurt her and that she is only little and still learning what hurts and what is gentle. But, I'm thinking that with some children, when they are hitting to express all their feelings like mine is, perhaps showing them that we don't pay attention to that kind of behavior will help. I'm also thinking that it's a "I'm overcome with emotions that I don't know how explain" phase that most kids just grow out of. When she hits her little peers at playgroup, I know that it's to say "hi, I'm really excited to see you!" kind of thing, so I've been showing her how to say hi to someone we're really happy to see (hugging, waving excitedly, running around, etc.). That kind of hitting has subsided too. But, who's to say that it's that part of the phase ending, or if I helped at all? You just never can tell. With dd1, it seems that her hitting phase ended as abrubtly as it began. Suddenly, when I thought I couldn't take it anymore, she stopped!









Ladybug Mama to two beautiful girls, (3 yrs. & 20 mos.), and wife to crazy freefalling DH._
Seasons of Cosleeping:_
...dd1 ... dd2 ... me with both ... me with dd2 ... dh with dd1


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## katallen (Jan 4, 2005)

With dd who is three I tell her that she needs to walk away if she hurts the cat and I help her walk away and if she hits me I will walk away with no reaction. For the times when it is very persistent I have found telling her she needs to be in a different room or in the rocking chair until she is done hitting works very well.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Bumping since this is a frequent issue on GD.

Pat


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## BonMaman (Sep 25, 2005)

Thanks for bumping this!


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