# Pantley Pull-off (or Pantley Gentle Removal): Does this thing actually work?



## summerbabe (Nov 12, 2006)

Well, after a year of rolling with whatever sleep situation DS has us in, I broke down and started reading NCSS. We cosleep full time and most of the time now, he is nursing every 1-2 hours in the night, and I'm not sure I'm up for waiting another year and a half or whatever for him to outgrow it. I think I want to be more proactive. We already do all the bedtime routine, daytime routine, nap stuff. Basically I think our problem is firmly entrenched nipple in mouth=go back to sleep. So I want to try to work on teaching him to go back to sleep without having to nurse EVERY TIME. I tried this Pantley Pull Off thing tonight. It seemed to make him hold on even more. OK, so it's only one try but I'm just wondering if this has actually worked for people. I'd like to hear that before I put a lot of effort into this which I am kind of ambivalent about doing in the first place. Thanks for input from those who have tried this.


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## Martha_2sons (Mar 28, 2007)

The whole "gentle removal" thing didn't work when I used it with DS1, who was a little older than your DC is now. I think it just frustrated him. At 18 months old I used Dr. Jay Gordon's "10 Night Plan" from his book Good Nights. This worked great with him, I would simply tell him "booby is sleeping" and cuddle him and he would go back to sleep with no nursing.

There is a NCSS support thread in here that will probably have more info for you.


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

It worked for us but we bottle-feed, so I don't know whether that makes a difference.


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## Mary-Beth (Nov 20, 2001)

You have to listen to your inner voice, you know.
I did use this approach and it did work. I slowly started to gently take her off the breast when she was drifting to sleep and not actually drinking. If she cried I put her back on but then did it again. After a while she started drifting off to sleep without being latched on. It does take patience and persistence but didn't involve crying or anything.
If it doesn't feel right for you at this time though don't feel pressured. Your baby is still young. But if you feel like this is something you are ready to do it's a very sweet and gentle way to encourage your baby to go to sleep without being latched on. It doesn't have to mean you're weaning or not available to them at night. Just introduce new ways to comfort and sleep.


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## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

I did it around 3 mos (how ambitious I was! I have to laugh at myself now). Anyway I did it then and it didn't do anything for his nightwaking but it DID make it remotely possible to put him to sleep without nursing. Since then he'll sometimes pull off and roll around a bit before going to sleep. This is good because if he nurses for a super-long time I get that skin crawling feeling. (I mean if he's flutter-sucking for a while. Not if he's actually nursing obviously).

Recently I started to delay nursing him (by the length of time it takes to sing a verse of 'amazing grace' and this probably cut his nightwaking in half. He was ready though.


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## earthgirl (Feb 6, 2006)

NO WAY! Every single time I've tried it DD just fully wakes up and then I have to spend another hour trying to get her back to sleep. I have officially given up on it. I will say that sometimes she does just pull off the breast, roll over and go to sleep. I have no idea when it's going to happen though. You could try the pull-off a couple of times and see what happens. It just may work for you.


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

I'm having good luck with it with my 6 month old son. I usually had to do it three or four times and he'd root around and fuss and I'd give him back the boob, but eventually on the fourth or fifth try he'd root a second, and then rub his head in the mattress a second and then drift off. And now I notice that I can pull out earlier and earlier; at this point I'm pulling off as soon as he stops swallowing and his eyes close. And yeah, when he wakes during the night he is able more and more to settle himself back again without me; he only fully wakes to nurse if something really disturbed him or if he's genuinely hungry. Before, he was waking at least eight times and I couldn't get him to drop the boob until he was limp asleep, which took about an hour and a half sometimes. Now, he wakes around 2, and then around 5, unless DD's noise wakes him earlier.

I would imagine it doesn't work for every kid, and even when it does work, it takes a long time. We've been at it for two months now, and it took almost a month before I saw a real change. And who knows if the change is developmental, and would have happened anyway? There's no way to know for sure...


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## artemis80 (Sep 8, 2006)

It works for us part of the time. If he freaks out, I put him back on, but often he will just settle down and go to sleep. I would say this has been the case since about 7-8 months.


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## feelinhot (Jun 19, 2006)

It worked for me. Not every single time but the more I tried, it seemed to work better. I just waited till he wasn't drinking anymore, just sucking. Turning the other direction afterward seemed to help too. If it doesn't work the first time try waiting a few more minutes and trying again and again


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## BensMamacita (Mar 13, 2007)

It worked for me - but it took a while. Like months.

Also, my son started sleeping for longer periods just after his first birthday, so I suspect it had more to do with his developmental stage than with the method, ykwim?


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

It's worth a try, certainly worth a try before nightweaning! It got us from must sleep with nipple to nurse to sleep and stay asleep when delatched. She wasn't OK with going further (and still isn't and she sleeps for 9 hours!

But if you're ambivalent, maybe not. There's nothing wrong with nursing all night if you're OK with it. Have you tried all the other suggestions, like sleep associations, etc first?


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## robinchap1 (Mar 15, 2007)

I have tried and tried and gotten nowhere with the Pantley pull off. I so wanted it to work! I've been at it for months. Like some others here, my DS is addicted to falling asleep with the breast in his mouth and wakes every 1-3 hours (mostly every 1-1 1/2). I am on the brink of insanity at the moment! I have repeatedly tried the pull off... and he cries, wakes himself up more, then I give him the breast. I don't want to night wean. I just want him to realize that he can go to sleep without the breast in hopes that he will get some longer stretches. If he rolls over, he wakes up and wants to nurse to go back. He doesn't know how to go back when he gets into that light sleep phase.
Sorry... didn't mean to hijack. But no... it hasn't worked for me. But I do know others that it has worked for.


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## LolaK (Jan 8, 2006)

I have basically been doing this for over two years and my daughter still nurses a million times a night.


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## jennybean0722 (Jun 19, 2006)

I did the PPO too, and it worked on getting him off the boob, but it did nothing to make them sleep longer by any means. He still nursed 8,000x a night.


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## summerbabe (Nov 12, 2006)

Thanks for all the responses. I just don't know....I have not given it a fair chance but I just don't see it working. When I gently put a finger against his chin to close his mouth as the book suggests, he bats it away and literally claws his way back to the breast in his half asleep state.

And, last night we had a better night--he only woke up a couple times like
11ish and 3ish (holy crap, was that a 4 hour stretch?!?) then again at 5am after which time he always nurses off and on until up for the day around 7. So that amount of waking to nurse I can handle. This is how it's been all along with this kiddo. Just when I think I can't roll with it anymore and I must DO something, it gets a little better (temporarily). So I may experiment with this Pantley thing a little, but I'm not going crazy with it.

Part of me thinks it's just too late with DS...the suck to sleep association is fully ingrained, and maybe it will be a huge struggle to get even slight improvement. So maybe I just need to accept the sleep situation and with the next babe I can think about doing some preventative stuff to help the baby sometimes fall asleep without breast in mouth.

If others want to share their tidbits about the Pantley Pulloff, keep em coming!


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## bananababies (Dec 10, 2006)

I think it works to a certain extent. I've been doing it off and on for the last few months. I can't say for certain, but it seems like when I'm consistent and remove my nipple just before she falls asleep, she sleeps a little better. But when I get into the habit of letting her fall asleep with my nipple in her mouth she wakes to nurse more frequently. By less frequently I mean about 2-4 times per night, and more frequently would be like 5-7 times. So I think it's worth a whole hearted try, but don't expect miracles!!!


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## robinchap1 (Mar 15, 2007)

Summerbabe...
Just had to say... my baby is exactly like that! Bats my hand away... claws for the boob!
And I feel exactly the same... I've let the sucking become such an ingrained thing and I think he feels so dependent on it. And I would definitely do it differently next time. I'm just not sure how to handle it now.
That sounds like a good night... what I would give for a 4 hours stretch...!
Hang in there!


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## babyluvr (Mar 21, 2004)

i have a rather different perspective. my first two babies were definitely suck to sleep but this baby (now 5mos) only wants to nurse to sleep if he's hungry and refuses the breast often (something my others hardly ever did) and has since birth. so we haven't done the PPO at all because he doesn't need to learn other ways of going to sleep, already likes (and sometimes prefers)them. but i will say that sometimes i miss the relative convenience of just lying there and nursing him to sleep...it's a lot easier than some other things (like walking him in the wrap when i want to rest for 15 mins while the sibs rest!







: ), and i really miss it when we're out and he's sleepy but not hungry and then screams from being overtired but won't just nurse and settle.

i always thought it would be great to have a babe not so addicted to the boob for sleep and in some ways it is nice, but it's doesn't make everything as easy as i had fantasized.


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## vstaudac (May 15, 2007)

summerbabe said:


> TWhen I gently put a finger against his chin to close his mouth as the book suggests, he bats it away and literally claws his way back to the breast in his half asleep state.
> 
> For my son - the finger against the chin just ticks him off. My son is like a bat - he has boobie radar - he can find it with his eyes closed and me hiding on the other side of the bed. I've tried just ignoring him - but he starts crying and then throws up - so we just PPO when I'm awake enough to or let him suck while I sleep - I give up! If the kids wants to nurse until he's 18 fine! Just let me sleep! Ahhh, he's only 19 months - he'll sleep throughout the night eventually....right??????? Normally it's better than last night but he's sick.
> 
> Good luck! Just wanted to let you know you're not alone and all my friends who coslept assure me that eventually they wean themselves from the boob and cosleeping...... So I'm not going to stress or listen to advice from my ....well everyone I know.... regarding sleeping or night nursing. I doubt cavewomen worried about it too much - if they could sleep and nurse and everyone had a good night then so be it!


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## insahmniak (Aug 16, 2003)

Nope. Didn't work for us. I think it may have even made it worse. DD was and still is a very light sleeper and seemed to always be aware of what was going on in her sleep, especially nursing-wise. I think taking it away when she was not ready to give it up made her want it more and feel even more desperate for it. She was NEVER in a deep enough sleep for this to work.

If I had it to do over again I wouldn't have tried to make this work just because it seemed to work for others - expecting that magical "let go and roll over." I had a light sleeper who loved nursing and I don't think this works for that type of babe. She's four now and those days are behind us and I totally regret not simply helping her feel secure when I had the chance.


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## bandyr (Aug 11, 2007)

For my son - the finger against the chin just ticks him off. My son is like a bat - he has boobie radar - he can find it with his eyes closed and me hiding on the other side of the bed. I've tried just ignoring him - but he starts crying and then throws up

This made DH and I laugh out loud! Sounds just like last night. Nursed the two-year old to sleep (can't pull him off until he starts loosing suction) and then the 5 month-old woke him up five minutes later. He looked around, asked to nurse, was told he had to wait (so I could nurse the baby, though we just said I was busy) and he cried until he threw up - at 1:30 am. The only time we regret co-sleeping has to be when there's puke in our bed! PPO, etc. don't work for us with DS. I have to wait until he's practically falling off before I can wrangle my nipple out. But self-calming skills will come some day, right? "This is so he won't need Lunesta as an adult" is my current mantra.

Rebecca - mom to 2! Evan (7/05) and Laura (3/07)








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## velcromom (Sep 23, 2003)

It worked for us, but it took about three weeks of patiently trying and keeping at it. I would stop if he stirred _at all_ and try again in a minute. In the beginning it took many tries before he would finally give in to it. I did not find it increased the length of time he would sleep, but it was enough that I could use it to put him down without him waking and having to start all over getting him back to sleep. I can't nurse lying down and staying up all night with a babe attached to my chest was not an option, lol.

He nursed to sleep til sometime in his second year, I think... gave it up on his own gradually and then continued to nurse before bed and go to sleep on his own til almost three and half. Now that he's selfweaned he gets a backrub or scratch at bedtime instead of nursing. So, yeah they do eventually gain those self-comfort skills... he's a great sleeper now!


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## mommycakes (Sep 21, 2005)

It worked for us too. It took a few weeks but I was persistent. It really finally did get to the point that dd would stir and start to root and either dh or myself would put a hand on her and "shhhh". She settle back into sleep.

It's worth a try.


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