# TRAUMATIC car rides - DESPERATE for help!!!



## filiadeluna (Oct 2, 2007)

My DD (18 months) has developed serious issues with being in the car. She has absolute *screaming, crying, thrashing meltdowns* in the car to the point where she is _almost hyperventilating_ before I have the chance to pull over somewhere and calm her down with breastfeeding, rocking her, etc.
















The longer the trip, the worse it is. She even gets fussy/upset when someone is sitting in the back with her (Daddy or Grandma usually), but at least doesn't generally have absolute meltdowns then. Most of the time it is just myself and her in the car.

It is not practical for me to stay home 24/7. I have to get groceries, run errands, and sometimes just get out of the house for my own sanity. There is not adequate public transportation, either, and this is not a walking/biking friendly town as everything is very spread out with a lot of traffic.

Yesterday I went on a trip out of town (about 30 miles) to meet up with some other moms, but I got lost on the way. It didn't help things that DD had a severe meltdown - the worst I've ever seen her. She screamed so hard that it sounded like someone was TORTURING her in the back seat. I'm not exaggerating AT ALL. Imagine the loudest cry/scream you've ever heard from your young child (probably when injured), and multiply that x10.

It's not even SAFE for me to drive when she is screaming like that, nor do I want to. All I want to do is comfort her and try to figure out what is bothering her so much. But when I am on the interstate going 70mph in rush-hour traffic through a major city like I was yesterday, stopping is not an option.

I've tried everything. I make sure she has plenty of toys, books, etc to look at in the car, and I keep some up front in case she throws or drops them out of her seat so I can hand more to her if she fusses. Even though she is breastfed, in the car I sometimes give her a sippy cup filled with mostly ice and a tiny bit of water to help her with teething and to keep her cool b/c the weather right now is still ridiculously hot/humid even with the car A/C on full blast. Well sometimes she decides to throw that and then gets even madder, and I cannot safely reach it to give it back to her without pulling over.

I play music - she has a few different CDs with "kiddie music" on them that she loves, and she also loves Dave Matthews and some rock. All of these things will calm her for a few minutes at a time, but if she is tired enough or teething or bored or whoknowswhat, it won't last. I try singing to her. There is a song I used to sing to her that would ALWAYS calm her down no matter how upset she was in the car, but it no longer works. I try talking to her to let her know where we are going and that we will be there soon. It just makes her angrier.

I am at my absolute wit's end! I'm a very patient mother, but I almost lost my cool on that trip yesterday. I ALMOST screamed myself - not at her, but just out of frustration and helplessness.

There are a lot of events out of town that I want to go to, mostly birth professional things. There are a lot of places I like to go around town, too, but I don't even like to get groceries anymore without my husband b/c of how awful the car rides are.

Any suggestions, experiences, etc, would be helpful. At this point, I am DESPARATE!














I am pretty much to the point where I feel like I cannot take her anywhere.


----------



## ancoda (Oct 17, 2005)

I really don't have any useful suggestions, but this is not really that unusual. My oldest use to do on almost every trip we took. It would take several minutes to get him into his carseat, because he would arch his back and refuse to let us buckle him in. He would scream at the top of his lungs, sometimes throw up all over himself and his seat on a regular basis and that was just for a 10 minute trip to go grocery shopping and stuff. I started not going anywhere I didn't have to and became very resentful of him, even though I didn't want to be. He got better at about age 2 which is when he outgrew the weight limit on RF on his carseat. I really don't know if the turning him around had anything to really do with the end of the tantrums, and don't recommend turning around a baby till you have to.


----------



## just_lily (Feb 29, 2008)

Has she always done this, or is it a recent thing?

Is she comfortable? Are her straps too tight? Do you have one of the more padded seats? (Sometimes kids hate the less padded seats like the Scenara).

Have you tried installing her seat more upright? Older kids don't need to be at a 45 degree angle, and can be as upright as 30 or 35 degrees depending on the seat (check your manual).


----------



## robugmum (May 1, 2003)

I know its not ideal, but could you disable the passenger side airbag and put her beside you when you're alone in the car? Maybe she'd be less prone to meltdowns if she was right beside Mama?


----------



## Jenne (May 21, 2004)

Robugmum, it isn't legal in Tennessee (which the OP specifies as her location) to have a child in a safety seat in the front seat.

OP- Have you gone over every inch of the seat with your hand to make sure there aren't any prickly, uneven, pokey places?

I hope you find some real solutions soon! That sounds awful for her and for you!
Jenne


----------



## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

Honestly at that point I'd be seeing if bribing with junk food worked. Suckers never fail to stop car freakouts over here. I know they're processed sugar junk, but I don't really care at the point where my kid is losing her mind and I just want to get home to put the groceries away before they melt.


----------



## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

I second double checking the seat. Definitely install more upright and put her by a window if she's in the middle to see if seeing out helps. Make sure there is nothing pokey in the car seat itself and that the straps are not digging into her. If you can, borrow a different seat from a friend you trust for a few days and see if that makes a difference.

Honey's idea is good too. We've used the yummi brand of organic lollipops on airplanes and it works well. They're fairly small, don't have too much sugar, all things considering, and nothing artificial. Of course, then you'll want to stash some baby wipes in the car to clean her up with afterwards!


----------



## filiadeluna (Oct 2, 2007)

The car seat manual (Britax Boulevard CS) says that you MUST keep the seat _fully reclined_ in RF position, so that's not an option.









And it is definitely illegal in TN to put a child in the front (even with airbags deactivated) if you HAVE a back seat. If it's like a truck or something without a back seat, I believe it's legal (though not very safe), but that doesn't relate to my situation anyway.

I don't give her lollipops or candy, not just for the junk factor, but because they are choking hazards. I'd think the choking hazard would be increased in the car. Yikes! When desperate I have given her bits of food in the car before, I'll admit, but definitely not candy.


----------



## Ninetales (Jan 25, 2009)

One of the carseat experts will have to confirm, but I'm 99% sure that the 45 degree recline is only for newborns. That's the advice I've seen on these and other carseat boards for all brands including Britax.


----------



## mama2soren (Feb 12, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ninetales* 
One of the carseat experts will have to confirm, but I'm 99% sure that the 45 degree recline is only for newborns. That's the advice I've seen on these and other carseat boards for all brands including Britax.

This is true. You must keep the Britax in the reclined position (where you pull on the bar by the foot of the seat and click it to be more reclined vs. upright), but when you install the seat in your car, put more of your weight near the front part of the seat (where your DD's feet will be), to get the seat installed more upright. It can be as upright as 30*. 45* is necessary for newborns and young babies without good head control.


----------



## mama2soren (Feb 12, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *filiadeluna* 
I don't give her lollipops or candy, not just for the junk factor, but because they are choking hazards. I'd think the choking hazard would be increased in the car. Yikes! When desperate I have given her bits of food in the car before, I'll admit, but definitely not candy.

Would you feel safer if you had a mirror to keep an eye on her while she was snacking? if you have removable headrests in your back seat, you can get a mirror that snuggly wraps around the headrest so it's not a projectile risk. Having a tasty snack in the car goes a long way keeping my DS happy!


----------



## just_lily (Feb 29, 2008)

When I first responded I assumed that you were already trying to bribe her with snacks. Food is like magic! You have to vaccuum out the seats fairly often, but it is worth it.

If you are worried about choking, you can try the toddler puffs that just melt in the mouth. I agree that I probably wouldn't give an RFing child a sucker or hard candy, but we do crackers, granola bars, cheese, etc.


----------



## NaturallyKait (Sep 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2soren* 
This is true. You must keep the Britax in the reclined position (where you pull on the bar by the foot of the seat and click it to be more reclined vs. upright), but when you install the seat in your car, put more of your weight near the front part of the seat (where your DD's feet will be), to get the seat installed more upright. It can be as upright as 30*. 45* is necessary for newborns and young babies without good head control.











Unfortunately a lot of kids go through stages like this where they just hate the car and nothing can stop it. I was one of those kids (screamed bloody murder the entire drive non stop until I was about 4 no matter what my mom did).


----------



## Aliy (Jun 1, 2010)

My youngest had troubles with driving for a bit he really didn't like travelling.. we ended up letting him have snacks and found comforts ( blanket paci) that worked well.

For long trips we have a dvd player for the kids


----------



## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

We turned ds1 around at about that age. He'd been a screamer since day 1, and at that point I decided it was worth a try... so we flipped him around and the screaming stopped. Immediatly.







We also always did lots of snacks (annies cheddar bunnies were especially a big hit for a while), and sippies with water. Good luck!!


----------



## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

At that age we use snacks and sippies of water, and car toys.


----------



## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

I also vote for turning her around. Rear facing is not safer in this case. Another option is an osteopath, but a chiro might also help. My first was like this from the beginning, and it was not safe for me to drive at all. I bought an old steel tank, and put her in the front seat (which you can't)- but most of the issues went away when she was able to be forward facing in the back. I didn't hear about the chiro / osteo possibility until afterwards. Statistics are difficult things to analyze- this board wants everything to be safest. I know so so so many people whose lives are ruined by sugar addiction. I don't know a single person whose life was ruined by a legal carseat adjustment, nor do I know anyone whose toddler was killed in a car wreck. It was very hard for me to make the decision to put my baby and toddler in socially unacceptable seating, but we did it, stayed off the highway of course, and were able to get to the store without almost dying every time.


----------



## OkiMom (Nov 21, 2007)

Honestly are you sure shes comfortable back there?
My youngest started screaming hysterically in her carseat around 20 months. I thought she was just upset because she wanted to play, it went on for about a month before I figured out why. One time (and I will remember this for a really long time) the screaming stop, I got worried and had DH pull over because she never stopped screaming. She was so hot in her seat she was passing out from the heat. We came close to taking her to the hospital because I was that worried about her. Luckily she cooled off some, nursed and seemed fine after that. DH turned her carseat around so she could be cooled off by the AC (we have a two door car right now with no AC vents in the backseat, even front seat we sweat when it gets hot) and we won't turn her back around until we get a bigger car (we might be leaving the country in less than 2 months, we aren't sure yet so we can't buy one until we get the word whether we are staying or going). Rear facing is the safest way but if for some reason its causing problem (like my DD and the heat) then obviously you need to find a safer alternative. If its making you distracted on the road and she isnt' screaming forward facing then its something you need to consider.


----------



## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *provocativa* 
Rear facing is not safer in this case.

Yes, it still is.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *provocativa* 
nor do I know anyone whose toddler was killed in a car wreck.

Then you are very, very lucky. Sadly I cannot say the same.


----------



## filiadeluna (Oct 2, 2007)

*sigh*

I think I figured out part of the problem. The crotch strap is short/tight/awkward, and it digs into her poor chunky thighs when it's tight enough to be considered "safe".

So *I am going to have to get her a new car seat* (she's almost outgrown the 35lb RF limit in this seat anyhow). I want to get her another Radian. We had one before, and she seemed quite content in it, although it in an accident so we disposed of it.

I do notice that on some particularly hot days when I take her out of the seat her back is sweaty.







But I'm not going to FF her before 2 (minimum) just because she's sweaty. If it's that hot out I just won't be able to take her anywhere.


----------



## saimeiyu (Aug 13, 2007)

If she's really hot, try getting her one of those battery-operated fans with the foam blades. It might help her cool down and give her something to play with all at once.
My DD gets super-hot in the back seat of our Civic, even though she's FF already, and she always gets really fussy when she's hot. If I'm on a surface street, I'll roll down the window by her just a bit so that she can get better airflow, and she loves it, so that's an option if you don't want to get her a fan.


----------



## surrogate (Oct 10, 2009)

I am glad you figured out what may be causing her distress, and have a plan to fix it









To pp who said that you don't know anyone whose toddler was killed in a car accident and don't know anyone whose life was ruined by a "legal carseat adjustment" talk to Kyle David ******'s mom, you may not know her personally, but I can assure you that she deals with the trauma everyday of making a "legal carseat adjustment" that led to her sons demise. Just because you don't know anyone doesn't mean it doesn't happen and doesn't mean that parents should just hide their head in the sand when it comes to the issue.


----------



## leighi123 (Nov 14, 2007)

I keep a damp washcloth in the freezer for ds when we get in the car, helps keep him cool and he likes to chew on it (even though he is 3 he chews everything still!)


----------



## leighi123 (Nov 14, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *provocativa* 
I also vote for turning her around. Rear facing is not safer in this case. Another option is an osteopath, but a chiro might also help. My first was like this from the beginning, and it was not safe for me to drive at all. I bought an old steel tank, and put her in the front seat (which you can't)- but most of the issues went away when she was able to be forward facing in the back. I didn't hear about the chiro / osteo possibility until afterwards. Statistics are difficult things to analyze- this board wants everything to be safest. I know so so so many people whose lives are ruined by sugar addiction. I don't know a single person whose life was ruined by a legal carseat adjustment, nor do I know anyone whose toddler was killed in a car wreck. It was very hard for me to make the decision to put my baby and toddler in socially unacceptable seating, but we did it, stayed off the highway of course, and were able to get to the store without almost dying every time.

Car accidents are the #1 cause of preventable death. I don't think 'sugar addiction' is anywhere on the chart... Plus too much sugar is something that can be reversed, internal decapitation/death is not something you recover from.

Besides, many kids go through this at that age, its not always a RF/FF thing. Sometimes turning the seat "helps" b/c its something new for the child, but so is changing the install of the seat or getting a new one and keeping it RF

OP- glad you figured it out! ds loves his radian, so hopefully getting a new seat will solve your problem for ya.


----------



## OkiMom (Nov 21, 2007)

Unfortunately not going places wouldn't work for our family since that would mean we would be trapped in the apartment for 5-6 months out of the year..

Radians are awesome! I love the one we have for our oldest. I'm debating getting one for our other daughter since she doesn't like the seat we have for her (we have the Costco Scenera). She has chunky thigh issues as well and the Scenera seems to cut into the chunkiness.

ETA: I think its easy for people to judge circumstances outside of their control on what "they" would do but its harder when you are sitting there. You have to make the BEST decision for YOUR family. Ideally children would go to the limits rear facing but its not always possible. If people want to judge for that so be it.


----------



## leighi123 (Nov 14, 2007)

My ds SCREAMED in the car from 0-8months (stopped when we got a convertible), and then again from 15-19ish months (started/stopped for no apparent reason).

So I was in the same position. I'm not judging anyone, but for me, I'd rather have a screaming child and limit outings as much as possible, vs. having a dead child from FF too soon.

At 3, he loves his carseat and doesnt mind being in the car, but I did go though some AWFUL times with him screaching for hours on end. Not fun.


----------



## jocelyndale (Aug 28, 2006)

How are things going?

I know this thread is from last month, but I had a carseat screamer. He screamed until he was just past two. He started tolerating rides of maybe 15min around then. At 3.5y, he now tolerates longer rides.

We also have a Blvd. We bought it when kiddo was 7.5mo, hoping that he'd stop screaming (it was cushier than his bucket). Didn't work and the screaming continued for ages. I think the headwings make it hard for younger toddlers to see out. Once he could actually see (we have a sedan, so he sits lower), he was much happier. Until then, one of us always sat in back with him.

Did you try the upright install as described? You leave the Blvd in the reclined position, as that is required. You pull it about an inch away from the bight of the vehicle seat and then press down on the front/foot area while tightening the belt (or lower anchors). This gives a more upright angle and it's perfectly acceptable (and very safe) for an older child to be at an upright angle. An upright install helps pacify my kiddo, for sure.

We're lucky enough to live in a city with adequate public transit, so I just avoided the car if I was by myself. We saved grocery shopping for evenings, when DH could come along and sit in back with DS.


----------



## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

I would switch her forward facing. She is probably carsick (my daughter was) and the switch to forward facing will solve the problem (for my daughter it did). I don't think rear facing until 2 makes sense for a child who is that traumatized in the car.


----------



## *MamaJen* (Apr 24, 2007)

My baby started screaming bloody murder in his carseat -- turned out he was allergic to the fabric. His whole body was covered in the awful rash by the time we figured it out.
I'm glad you figured out what was going on, and I think it's good to remember that if your baby is screaming in the car seat as though they're in pain, maybe they are in physical pain.


----------



## Adventuredad (Apr 23, 2008)

Turning a child forward facing at 18 months is anything but safe. It's 500% less safe than rear facing. That we know for sure both from research and real life experiences. It's basically a terrible idea.

Good options have already been mentioned above. A comfortable car seat is of course important, toys, rear facing mirror, and more upright position take car of most problems.

Some kids have these stages when they are simply miserable regardless of circumstances. My daughter, known as Europe's most active toddler, was a screamer until age 2. It was not the car seat or Rf/FF, she was simply miserable sitting still. After age 2 things turned around and she has stayed RF until now (age 4). It was RF until age 4 or not going in the car at all.

Deactivating airbag is sadly usually not possible in US but it's an excellent option. Other people outside US readin this, those who can deactivate airbag, should definitely try this. Not only is is as safe, actually safer, to keep a child up front (airbag must be deactivated) but it's comfortable for both child and parent.


----------



## Toolip (Mar 7, 2008)

really? It's safe to have a car seat in the front as long as there's no airbag or it's deactivated??
What about side airbags, do they have to be deactivated too?

What are the laws about seats in the front seat in the US? I thought it was only ok if there was not another seat available....


----------



## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Rearfacing in the front seat is supposed to be safe, according to the Swedes, as long as there is no airbag. I don't know about how side body airbags affect car seat installs (I know in my dh's Mercedes SLK the special child seats for it only turn off the front airbag, not the side airbag, so I would assume that one doesn't matter). Side curtain airbags, which cover windows only usually, are fine.

Laws about when children can ride up front vary from state to state. In my state it's children under 12 that cannot, WHENVER PRACTICAL. So in a two seater, all other seats used, or even other seats folded flat to haul a load, a child up front could be justified.


----------



## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Toolip* 
really? It's safe to have a car seat in the front as long as there's no airbag or it's deactivated??

Swedish researchers apparently say yes, US researchers say no.


----------



## Toolip (Mar 7, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
Swedish researchers apparently say yes, US researchers say no.

is there research in the US on it? Or is it just a theory?


----------



## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Yes, NHTSA has done the research. I don't have it in linkable form, but it's out there.


----------



## Toolip (Mar 7, 2008)

So what's the speculation on the differing results?

Different cars? Different car seats? I'm very curious....


----------



## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

I was thinking carsickness like a pp. My son had that. It's a tough situation to figure out...OP did changing the seat help at all?


----------



## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Toolip* 
So what's the speculation on the differing results?

Different cars? Different car seats? I'm very curious....

The major difference is that in Europe, cars are made with airbags that have keyed switches, but in the US it's very very rare to find a passenger car with a usable backseat, that has a keyed airbag switch.


----------



## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
The major difference is that in Europe, cars are made with airbags that have keyed switches, but in the US it's very very rare to find a passenger car with a usable backseat, that has a keyed airbag switch.

Quite frankly, it's hard to find ANY cars anymore that have a keyed switch. Even a lot of 2 seaters just have sensors, so you cannot install a car seat in that seat rfing at all (unless you buy a special car seat that turns off the sensor in a few vehicles).


----------



## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

There was a picture of a brand new Audi floating around that has a switch (not a keyed switch, but a manual button versus a weight sensor) for the airbags, but that's the only new car I've seen with a switch.

ETA: and the regulations are changing I believe in 2011 or 2012 where new trucks and cars w/out a usable backseat (ie 2- seaters) don't have to have a keyed switch anymore, but can instead just use a weight sensor


----------



## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

My dad has a toyota pickup w/o a backseat thats a couple yrs old now and it doesn't have a switch either - just a sensor. I don't get it. I really, really don't.


----------



## Toolip (Mar 7, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
The major difference is that in Europe, cars are made with airbags that have keyed switches, but in the US it's very very rare to find a passenger car with a usable backseat, that has a keyed airbag switch.

I don't understand... so the studies have compared the safety of the front seat with no airbag to the safety in the US where we can't turn the airbags off? That's not a comparison at all...

Also, aren't there ways that you have have the passenger airbag disabled by the dealer?


----------



## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Passenger airbags cannot be disabled without a waiver from NHTSA, and they require a better reason than "I'd rather put my kid in the front"; plus, even with a waiver, very few mechanics will actually disable the airbag.

I think I've read studies that try to control for airbags and still find the front less safe, but I'm not sure. I'm comfortable with the idea that things are different enough in Sweden (vehicles, traffic, driving habits, etc.) that what holds true there may not hold true here, and since I drive here and educate people here, I'll go with what "our" research shows.


----------



## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

i am curious too OP if a new seat took care of the problem. a tight crotch. OUCH!!!!

i know when my dd SCREAMS like your dd did, there is SOMETHING for SURE going on.


----------



## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
Passenger airbags cannot be disabled without a waiver from NHTSA, and they require a better reason than "I'd rather put my kid in the front"; plus, even with a waiver, very few mechanics will actually disable the airbag.

I think I've read studies that try to control for airbags and still find the front less safe, but I'm not sure. I'm comfortable with the idea that things are different enough in Sweden (vehicles, traffic, driving habits, etc.) that what holds true there may not hold true here, and since I drive here and educate people here, I'll go with what "our" research shows.

Very well said


----------



## ErikaS57 (Jul 15, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
ETA: and the regulations are changing I believe in 2011 or 2012 where new trucks and cars w/out a usable backseat (ie 2- seaters) don't have to have a keyed switch anymore, but can instead just use a weight sensor









Yuck! I'd never trust those weight sensors. The shifting weight of my purse & laptop is enough to turn my passenger airbag on or off as I drive. I'd think that the weight of a carseat + child would likely leave the airbag on frequently (some of those seats are heavy!).


----------



## Toolip (Mar 7, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ErikaS57* 
Yuck! I'd never trust those weight sensors. The shifting weight of my purse & laptop is enough to turn my passenger airbag on or off as I drive. I'd think that the weight of a carseat + child would likely leave the airbag on frequently (some of those seats are heavy!).

I would think that when a seat was strapped down, it would definitely trigger the weight sensor (or not, I mean that the airbag would be on). That's just craziness!


----------

