# Healing the Gut -- March thread



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

starting a thread for March!


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Lactococcus lactis in probiotics

the first ones that came up
http://www.ezoetic.com/showproduct.aspx?productid=565
http://www.vitaminlife.com/product-e...oduct_id/51676
http://www.consumerlab.com/results/nw_probiotics.asp


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

subbing...

ChinesePistache--on the digestive enzymes to digest grains in babies, from what I've read they start producing them somewhere between age one and two (bluets, have you found anything that narrows this down further?). Although really, other than grains being hard to digest, this really isn't a reason not to feed an older baby grains if you feed them fruits and veggies since the same digestive enzyme (amylase) is needed to digest these as well.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

amylase (found in the mouth in saliva) is the first point where starches start getting broken down. which is probably why it is an ingredient on rice cereal for babies. that said, i seem to recall that amylase is also in breastmilk -- which is why when you add some EBM to rice cereal, it just keeps getting runnier and runnier...

so i've always been confused about "babies shouldn't get rice cereal" because when they're breastfed, they do get at least some of the requisite digestive enzymes through breastmilk. haven't been able to hunt this down any more though (and my understanding of starch digestion is weak still).

ETA - i tried the whole rice cereal thing (before i really knew better). but then i'm kinda lazy and mornings are very crazy so usually breakfast was mama-masticated fruit... and ds just did NOT want to be fed (probably a daycare thing - meals at daycare were not based on someone feeding them, rather based on self-feeding with a spoon no less). i had to take my naive thoughts of "spoon feeding" (like i did when i babysat in high school) and heave them out the window.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Wow it's March!! Crazy!

Well, I think I'm dealing with a major Candida issue too. Does Candida and leaky gut go hand in hand, or is one more likely to cause the other??

I did the "spit in the glass test" first thing in the morning (I'm waiting on my stool results from Great Smokies, but am anxious!!) and a huge gross cloud went to the bottom of the glass. Dh's was fine...lucky guy who gets to eat junk food and still be healthy!

Does making your own yogurt help with Candida? I read on the customprobiotics.com site that you can make it with almond milk. I think I'm goign to be ordering probiotics from him today.

Also, dd is REALLY wanting food. She throws tantrums when I don't let her "taste" everything (which I thought was impossible for a 5.5 month old...). We are supposed to be delaying solids, but how on Earth can I when all she wants to do is eat?? Didn't know if any of you mamas went through this...

I hope everyone is doing well


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Thanks for the head up!

Okay, I have lots of random HTG thoughts.

We just started NAET 1 1/2 wks ago. So far, dd has been diagnosed with "allergies" (kind of a catch all term for foods/substances that one reacts to or isn't absorbing or otherwise has problems with due to energy blockages) to eggs, dairy, corn, grains, vitamin A, and yeast. Several of the identified allergens caused her no obvious reactions in the past, but the doctor "cleared" for corn and dairy (her big, obvious allergens), so we're currently on watch to see if her usual reactions come back. In the past 2-3 days, we've had dairy (which we've been off for 10 mths) and traces of corn (I need to buy some corn/corn products, because our house has been completely rid of it for months). (BTW, I'm ingesting the corn and dairy, too, so she'll get it through my milk and *I* feel very yucky. I'm sure I've got mild allergies to both; I can't believe how congested they've made me.)

Anyway, I'm guardedly optimistic as she doesn't seem to be reacting, but then again, I know that allergens can have a cumulative effect. BTW, she has not been treated for grains or yeast yet. Both of those will be done next week. (I'm still trying to keep my skepticism in check.)

I'm not giving up my gut-healing ways, though. Dd has had a bad yeast rash for two weeks. i wasn't sure that's what it was, but I finally ruled out the other culprits. I've been giving her a double dose of Threelac along with her regular probiotics as well as evening primrose oil and it's finally clearing up. Quickly, too. It didn't even take 2 days for it to go away and it was all over her torso, rear end and face.

We have been loosely following the FAILSAFE diet. Well, actually, we've just been avoiding her trigger foods (that give her bad rashes and diarrhea, along with general grumpiness) and when I look at the list of foods, I find that they are all high salicylate (though, not high amine). It's very interesting to me and I wonder if her sensitivity to sals can be cured through gut healing, too.

Finally, I'm very frustrated with getting dd to take her supplements. It kills me that I have supps that I believe will heal her (enzymes, glutamine, CLO) and I ca't get them into her little body! I'm taking them, too, but she reaaly needs them. Any advice/suggestions? I know all the tricks for enzymes, but with our corn/dairy allergies, many of those ideas wouldn't work. If we're really "cleared" of them (a la naet), then I might be able to try them again. But I'm not holding my breath, you know?


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache* 
Finally, I'm very frustrated with getting dd to take her supplements. It kills me that I have supps that I believe will heal her (enzymes, glutamine, CLO) and I ca't get them into her little body! I'm taking them, too, but she reaaly needs them. Any advice/suggestions? I know all the tricks for enzymes, but with our corn/dairy allergies, many of those ideas wouldn't work. If we're really "cleared" of them (a la naet), then I might be able to try them again. But I'm not holding my breath, you know?

what about just increasing your dosage so that you increase your levels in your breastmilk? probably wouldn't work for enzymes but might for glutamine and CLO.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Wow it's March!! Crazy!

Well, I think I'm dealing with a major Candida issue too. Does Candida and leaky gut go hand in hand, or is one more likely to cause the other??



hand in hand. they say that candida can cause leaky gut.

before i got scared of GSE, i used GSE in combination with a modified candida diet (along with my glutamine stuff) to overcome it. i managed to get rid of most of the symptoms pretty quickly. of course, right around the time i found out about leaky gut last spring (is it only coming up to a year now?), i had one big wicked sinus infection, got drugs after suffering with major pain for about 2 weeks, then after i took the drugs, i took one magic diflucan pill. so i imagine that the diflucan helped with the remaining candida









mum2be, if you're having issues with your liver, you will want to avoid diflucan, but nystatin would probably be ok.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 

Does making your own yogurt help with Candida? I read on the customprobiotics.com site that you can make it with almond milk. I think I'm goign to be ordering probiotics from him today.


Lactobacillus plantarum is the species that is a candida killer. So you should make sure you get that in your culture


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

subbing







:


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## Janelovesmax (Feb 17, 2006)

I am joining this thread because I really need support. I think I also might have Candida problem - finally my love for coffee and sweets caught up to me.
I've been off sugar for a week now, off dairy, and liming my potato/bread intake. Almost no grains and only one fruit a day which is green apple.

I also take probiotics, digestive enzymes, green superfoods.

How's everyone else here healing their guts? I really need support, because I'm very depressed without my coffee and sweets. I got some good support on my own Candida battleplan thread, but I think more people are visitors here.

Does anyone here take Treelac? Success?

It all started with my very first yeast infection that was so irritating and lasted for weeks. I took 2 rounds of that "what do you call it?" starts with a "D" and it seemed to help, but until I eliminated sugar it didn't clear up. Actually it's still there just a little bit.

Anyway, vent is over. I'll just keep reading.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Janelovesmax* 
I am joining this thread because I really need support. I think I also might have Candida problem - finally my love for coffee and sweets caught up to me.
I've been off sugar for a week now, off dairy, and liming my potato/bread intake. Almost no grains and only one fruit a day which is green apple.

I also take probiotics, digestive enzymes, green superfoods.

How's everyone else here healing their guts? I really need support, because I'm very depressed without my coffee and sweets. I got some good support on my own Candida battleplan thread, but I think more people are visitors here.

Does anyone here take Treelac? Success?

It all started with my very first yeast infection that was so irritating and lasted for weeks. I took 2 rounds of that "what do you call it?" starts with a "D" and it seemed to help, but until I eliminated sugar it didn't clear up. Actually it's still there just a little bit.

Anyway, vent is over. I'll just keep reading.

Yes, Threelac has definitely worked for us. It's not a cure all, in that even though it clears acute problems, when dd consumes too many fruits and grains, the yeast can come back. I definitely think it's useful as part of an overall yeast eradication plan.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

So, I think I spoke too soon about NAET. I've been watching dd carefully. I was especially interested in observing her today because last night is when I went whole hog on the corn and dairy and I wanted to see how that would affect her once it made its way to my milk. I was happily surprised when she woke up this morning with fairly clear skin. Now, a few hours and a few nursing sessions later, she's got eczema flare ups in all her creases AND diarrhea (which she hasn't had in a couple of months at least).

I think we'll go back to our original plan of attack. I liked the idea of trying NAET because it's not invasive and we have the money right now to afford it, but I'm concerned about continuing to expose her to her allergens in an effort to "test" them. Since her allergies (the big ones anyway) are IgE, I don't want to ruin our chances of outgrowing them by letting her eat them.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Why are there so many kids on here that have leaky gut/candida issues? Is it because WE have the issues and they have it as a result, or is there some other contributing factor.

If I have candida, will dd because I am nursing her?

I just want to clarify some things...

Thanks









Oh, and Bluets-Thanks for the info! I will add that strain when I order


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

i can't believe i didn't think to look for this sooner.

from 1986:
http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v8.../5614367a.html
Increased Intestinal Permeability in Atopic Eczema

abstract: We have investigated gastrointestinal permeability in children with atopic eczema by measuring the relative urinary excretion rates of the inert di- and monosaccharides lactulose and rhamnose following their oral administration. The median lactulose/rhamnose ratio was greater in 26 children with atopic eczema than in a control group of 29 children which included both healthy individuals and others with various noneczematous dermatoses. This increased permeability may be a primary abnormality of the gut or may reflect intestinal mucosal damage caused by local hypersensitivity reactions to food antigens.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

http://adc.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/89/3/227

abstract:

Background: Increased intestinal permeability has been reported in one study of adult asthmatics.

Aim: To determine whether children with asthma have altered intestinal permeability.

Methods: Thirty two asthmatic children, and 32 sex and age matched controls were recruited. The dual sugar (lactulose and mannitol) test was used to evaluate intestinal permeability, and the percentage of ingested lactulose (L) and mannitol (M) in the urine, and the L:M ratio were determined. All patients were skin prick tested for common aeroallergens, and specific IgE to some food items was determined.

Results: The median value of L in asthmatic children (2.29, IQR 0.91-4.07) was significantly higher than that in controls (0.69, IQR 0.45-1.08), and that of M was almost similar. The ratio L:M was significantly higher in asthmatic children (0.20, IQR 0.11-0.40) than in controls (0.06, IQR 0.04-0.09). Intestinal permeability did not correlate with eczema, inhaled steroids, positive skin prick test to aeroallergens, or severity of asthma.

Conclusions: Intestinal permeability is increased in children with asthma, suggesting that the whole mucosal system may be affected.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

To examine the association of intestinal barrier function with vitamin A deficiency and whether supplementation of micronutrients improves intestinal function and/or linear growth, height-for-age z-score (HAZ), concentrations of serum retinol and zinc, and intestinal permeability were determined in a cross-sectional sample of 75 children in northeastern Brazil. Effects of vitamin A and supplementation of zinc on intestinal permeability and growth were also determined comparing results before and after treatment in 20 children and age-matched controls. Lactulose:mannitol (L/M) permeability ratios inversely correlated with serum retinol concentrations (r = -0.55, p < 0.0005). Increased L/M permeability ratios with reduced concentrations of serum retinol were predominantly attributable to lower absorption of mannitol (r = 0.28, p = 0.02). L/M permeability ratios (p = 0.001) and HAZ scores (p = 0.007) improved with supplementation. It is concluded that impaired intestinal barrier function and linear growth shortfalls improve following supplementation of vitamin A and zinc in this setting.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=16882802

OBJECTIVE: The aim of this study was to examine the contribution of a broad range of external influences to the gut microbiotic composition in early infancy. METHODS: Fecal samples from 1032 infants at 1 month of age, who were recruited from the KOALA Birth Cohort Study in the Netherlands, were subjected to quantitative real-time polymerase chain reaction assays for the enumeration of bifidobacteria, Escherichia coli, Clostridium difficile, Bacteroides fragilis group, lactobacilli, and total bacterial counts. Information on potential determinants of the gut microbiotic composition was collected with repeated questionnaires. The associations between these factors and the selected gut bacteria were analyzed with univariate and multivariate analyses. RESULTS: Infants born through cesarean section had lower numbers of bifidobacteria and Bacteroides, whereas they were more often colonized with C difficile, compared with vaginally born infants. Exclusively formula-fed infants were more often colonized with E coli, C difficile, Bacteroides, and lactobacilli, compared with breastfed infants. Hospitalization and prematurity were associated with higher prevalence and counts of C difficile. Antibiotic use by the infant was associated with decreased numbers of bifidobacteria and Bacteroides. Infants with older siblings had slightly higher numbers of bifidobacteria, compared with infants without siblings. CONCLUSIONS: The most important determinants of the gut microbiotic composition in infants were the mode of delivery, type of infant feeding, gestational age, infant hospitalization, and antibiotic use by the infant. Term infants who were born vaginally at home and were breastfed exclusively seemed to have the most "beneficial" gut microbiota (highest numbers of bifidobacteria and lowest numbers of C difficile and E coli).


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## Rachel J. (Oct 30, 2005)

subbing


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

not quite related to intestinal permeability but it fits with the whole poop thing that we seem to keep going around in our threads.









Gas production by feces of infants.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_DocSum

BACKGROUND: Intestinal gas is thought to be the cause abdominal discomfort in infants. Little is known about the type and amount of gas produced by the infant's colonic microflora and whether diet influences gas formation. METHODS: Fresh stool specimens were collected from 10 breast-fed infants, 5 infants fed a soy-based formula, and 3 infants fed a milk-based formula at approximately 1, 2, and 3 months of age. Feces were incubated anaerobically for 4 hours at 37 degrees C followed by quantitation of hydrogen (H2), methane (CH4), carbon dioxide (CO2), hydrogen sulfide (H2S), methanethiol (CH3SH), and dimethyl sulfide (CH3SCH3) in the head-space. RESULTS: H2 was produced in greater amounts by breast-fed infants than by infants in either formula group, presumably the consequence of incomplete absorption of breast milk oligosaccharides. CH4 was produced in greater amounts by infants fed soy formula than by infants on other diets. CO2 was produced in similar amounts by infants in all feeding groups. Production of CH3SH was conspicuously low by feces of breast-fed infants and production of H2S was high by soy-formula-fed infants. CH3SCH3 was not detected. Only modest changes with age were observed and there was no relation between gas production and stool consistency, although stools were more likely to be malodorous when concentrations of H2S and/or CH3SH were high. CONCLUSIONS: Gas release by infant feces is strongly influenced by an infant's diet. Of particular interest are differences in production of the highly toxic sulfur gases, H2S and CH3SH, because of the role that these gases may play in certain intestinal disorders of infants.


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## Rachel J. (Oct 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=16882802

CONCLUSIONS: The most important determinants of the gut microbiotic composition in infants were the mode of delivery, type of infant feeding, gestational age, infant hospitalization, and antibiotic use by the infant. Term infants who were born vaginally at home and were breastfed exclusively seemed to have the most "beneficial" gut microbiota (highest numbers of bifidobacteria and lowest numbers of C difficile and E coli).

Hmmm, poor ds2 has all the "negative" determinants, except for now being EBF. It's no wonder he has gut issues.

I know it's been asked about a zillion times and I'm sure that if I did a search I'd eventually find an answer, but could anyone tell me a dairy/soy/corn-free infant probiotic?







I currently have three in my fridge that have given ds hives/welts around his mouth after taking them.







: I'm thinking that can't be a good sign.

Any thoughts on l. reuteri's benefits for children and/or adults with gut issues? I'm guessing most have seen/heard about the research indicating that it decreased colic in infants?


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## milkamama (May 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache* 
So, I think I spoke too soon about NAET. I've been watching dd carefully. I was especially interested in observing her today because last night is when I went whole hog on the corn and dairy and I wanted to see how that would affect her once it made its way to my milk. I was happily surprised when she woke up this morning with fairly clear skin. Now, a few hours and a few nursing sessions later, she's got eczema flare ups in all her creases AND diarrhea (which she hasn't had in a couple of months at least).

I think we'll go back to our original plan of attack. I liked the idea of trying NAET because it's not invasive and we have the money right now to afford it, but I'm concerned about continuing to expose her to her allergens in an effort to "test" them. Since her allergies (the big ones anyway) are IgE, I don't want to ruin our chances of outgrowing them by letting her eat them.


hi...i followed and posted for awhile some time ago...
just wanted to add in my 2 cents.
i tried naet for a long time with my ds2 (he has IgE reactions to wheat, soy, egg, rice, tree nuts, nuts and belly troubles with coconut, avacodo, onion...to name a few). although i love, love the dr. performing the naet (i still go for me once a week for craniosacral adjustments), she was more convinced than i regarding the 'elimination' of the allergens. i thought naet was THE end all be all for us. i saw huge improvements in the beginning and raved about how wonderful it is.

what i have learned from our experience is that naet typically ( i know a few folks who have tried it) works fully with older kids (ds1 who is 3.5 had three treatments for egg and is able to consume them, though i don't let him have them all the time and since naet can also consume dairy freely...with no belly trouble) and adults. i am not sure if ds2's system was just such a mess (and mine as well) or if he did clear for a while and then i went crazy and did not limit the 'cleared allergens'.

at the time, my thinking was, he is clear, now he can have say wheat whenever. once he was cleared i did give him large amounts of the cleared item and sure enough after a day or so (sometimes more), he would react again. what i think happens is they do clear, but then we try to consume the cleared allergen freely and maybe (as in my ds2's case) there are other gut issues going on and the cleared foods may stay cleared if say we only had them on a rotational basis. like i said this is just my 2 cents.

i do believe in naet, but i do think there are limitations.

i totally agree with your concern about exposing your dd to the allergens and honestly, at this time we have decided to go the same route. we steer completely away from all his allergens (and possible allergens)...and my ds2 now 26 months has fabulous looking skin, virtually no belly issues and grew 3.4 cm and gained 1 lb. in 3 mths (huge for him). but yeah like i said we have a very restricted diet...i am used to it now, but really miss eating out...having a break from cooking 3 meals a day, 7 days a week (sorry just a bit of self pity there).

i would love to eventually try naet again...if necessary. ds outgrew a dairy allergy what seemed like overnight. we strickly avoided dairy for a LONG time.
and now he can eat all dairy (hence the weight gain and growth) with no trouble. i pray, A LOT about him outgrowing everything and have continued my own gut healing (in hopes of having another baby and not having food issues...positive thoughts).

wow, this was way longer than i expected...hope this is helpful.
peace


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rachel J.* 
I know it's been asked about a zillion times and I'm sure that if I did a search I'd eventually find an answer, but could anyone tell me a dairy/soy/corn-free infant probiotic?







I currently have three in my fridge that have given ds hives/welts around his mouth after taking them.







: I'm thinking that can't be a good sign.

Any thoughts on l. reuteri's benefits for children and/or adults with gut issues? I'm guessing most have seen/heard about the research indicating that it decreased colic in infants?

www.customprobiotics.com--no fillers, so you shouldn't run into any allergens. If your DS is extremely sensitive to dairy you could call and see if they'll send you a sample as I belive all probiotics are originally cultured on dairy and then the hypo-allergenic ones are cultured again w/o dairy to remove traces.

I know a couple of people posted that they saw stool improvements (and possibly other improvements, can't remember) with their DC when they started them on l. reuteri.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Wow it's March!! Crazy!

Well, I think I'm dealing with a major Candida issue too. Does Candida and leaky gut go hand in hand, or is one more likely to cause the other??

I did the "spit in the glass test" first thing in the morning (I'm waiting on my stool results from Great Smokies, but am anxious!!) and a huge gross cloud went to the bottom of the glass. Dh's was fine...lucky guy who gets to eat junk food and still be healthy!

Does making your own yogurt help with Candida? I read on the customprobiotics.com site that you can make it with almond milk. I think I'm goign to be ordering probiotics from him today.

Also, dd is REALLY wanting food. She throws tantrums when I don't let her "taste" everything (which I thought was impossible for a 5.5 month old...). We are supposed to be delaying solids, but how on Earth can I when all she wants to do is eat?? Didn't know if any of you mamas went through this...

I hope everyone is doing well









Any fermented/cultured food will probably help with candida. Is your DD okay with nuts? You could probably make yogurt with rice milk, although who knows how it would taste.

How's your DD coming with the milestones for starting solids (sits up unassisted, has teeth, pincher grasp)? Sometimes you just have to have more willpower than your DC...they are awfully persistent but there's going to be lots of things they want that they can't have (speaking from experience!).


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Why are there so many kids on here that have leaky gut/candida issues? Is it because WE have the issues and they have it as a result, or is there some other contributing factor.

If I have candida, will dd because I am nursing her?

I just want to clarify some things...

Thanks









Oh, and Bluets-Thanks for the info! I will add that strain when I order









IMO, if mom has leaky gut or candida babe probably has gut issues too, because they get whatever gut flora the mom has during their trip down the birth canal. But kids can have gut issues that don't come from mom due to vaxes, antibiotics, formula, etc.

I don't know that your DD will automatically have candida if you do. I would guess that she's more susceptible because her gut flora's probably messed up, but I haven't heard anything about candida being passed through BM. I don't even know if a baby can be colonized with candida during the trip through the birth canal...based on my experience with DD I'd say that it can, but I've never seen any research one way or the other.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Any fermented/cultured food will probably help with candida. Is your DD okay with nuts? You could probably make yogurt with rice milk, although who knows how it would taste.

How's your DD coming with the milestones for starting solids (sits up unassisted, has teeth, pincher grasp)? Sometimes you just have to have more willpower than your DC...they are awfully persistent but there's going to be lots of things they want that they can't have (speaking from experience!).

I looked on the customprobiotic website and the yogurt starter section says you can use almond milk as a starter







I thought that was great, as my dairy on the IgE tests (I know they aren't super accurate) was very very high, and I hadn't consumed dairy in a long time...

I wonder how almond milk yogurt would taste....anyone try it?

Dd is sitting up for about 5 minutes unassisted (although maybe longer, but I typically have a boppy around her just in case), doesn't have any teeth and no sign (although she's been teething like crazy since 3 months), and I don't think she has a pincer grasp, but is very good at grabbing small objects








Is it bad if she just licks foods? Like she loved licking the salt off of my rice cracker, she liked licking my rice dream bar (just a teeny bit...this was her "first" food because she grabbed it out of my hand and shoved it in her mouth







before I could get it) and she licked a bit of olive oil/sheep's cheese (the parmesan style) off of my spoon...just the tiniest amount. It's impossible for me to avoid eating in front of her because she needs my attention 100% of the times, and most of the time I need to be holding her too...I mean, she gets very distressed when I don't give her any and I already deal with a cranky baby, so I'd like to keep her happy







But I know that delaying is better...but just little teeny licks? Is that okay?









Also, I posted this on the previous page, but if I have candida, will she too?

She's got all the good thigns going for her as far as gut flora (homebirth, natural, vaginal, breastfed, etc.) but what happens when the mother's gut flora is horrible? Does she still get the good stuff? what about candida? If I had it, wouldn't she have swallowed whatever was in my vagina during birth. (Is that a silly question?)

My dh is getting really upset about all this that is going on with me. He doesn't really understand it and seems to think that there is some cure out there where all I have to do is take a pill and I'll be better. He seems to think everything that we on this thread talk about is hocus pocus, because no doctors are telling us what to do. Does that make sense? I'm super tired and am not thinking clearly...


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## paisleypoet (Nov 17, 2006)

I'm subbing to this one...my dd is 17 months old, has IgE allergies to wheat, oats, dairy, peanuts and eggs, also has eczema and digestion problems. I KNOW she has some leaky gut and yeast issues. This stuff is fascinating, how it's all connected. I'm learning a lot!
I was giving my dd a capsule of acidophilus in her bottle each morning, then I kind of quit for a few days to see if it was really doing anything. She started to get runny, stinky poop with undigested food, and then developed a yeast rash on her bottom that cleared up instantly with Nystatin ointment. So needless to say we are back on it!
She is also intolerant to tomato products and any citrus, they go right through her and cause a nasty rash on her bottom. She eats a lot of vegetables, beans and legumes, potatoes, sweet potatoes, rice, some soy products, fruit, gluten-free snacks, and some meat, although I am trying to cut back on that (I'm a vegetarian). She actually eats healthier than anyone else in the house, since she can't have any junk food!
I am still trying to figure out everything that she can or can't eat, and trying to connect it all with her eczema flare-ups and diarrhea. It's so confusing sometimes.


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## Janelovesmax (Feb 17, 2006)

How would you know if your child has a leaky gut/yeast issues?


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## earthmama369 (Jul 29, 2005)

Jumping in with a possibly odd gut issue.

I'm suspect I've sustained some "gut" damage and am interested in finding ways to heal it. But it's not allergies or yeast or anything like that. It's as a result of panic disorder. Anyone have any thoughts, suggestions?

I started having panic attacks when I was 18. I went through several months of nearly non-stop attacks, all of which involved throwing up. (Some people feel like the're having a heart attack during a panic attack . . . some of us upchuck. Yay.) They gradually slowed to a few times a day, then a few times a week. 12 years later, I can count on two hands the number of severe panic attacks I've had in the last few years. But any time adrenalin hits my system, I feel it strongly in my gut and have an instant reaction -- diarrhea (sorry, TMI), nausea, etc.

Chicken or the egg -- I don't know if it hits me in the gut so hard because I already had an underlying weakness there or if it's just the nature of the beast. Either way, I can't have had so many intestinal problems without causing some damage. What would be some good ways to strengthen and heal my intestinal system?


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## APCDmama (Dec 22, 2004)

subbing







:


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *earthmama369* 
What would be some good ways to strengthen and heal my intestinal system?

Probiotics or homemade lacto-fermented foods or drinks (yogurt, pickles, sauerkraut, kefir, kombucha, etc), bone broths or glutamine supplements, cod liver oil, and a nutrient-rich diet.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Janelovesmax* 
How would you know if your child has a leaky gut/yeast issues?

If they have allergies, eczema, or digestive problems like constipation or diarrhea, they most likely have gut issues.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Dd is sitting up for about 5 minutes unassisted (although maybe longer, but I typically have a boppy around her just in case), doesn't have any teeth and no sign (although she's been teething like crazy since 3 months), and I don't think she has a pincer grasp, but is very good at grabbing small objects








Is it bad if she just licks foods? Like she loved licking the salt off of my rice cracker, she liked licking my rice dream bar (just a teeny bit...this was her "first" food because she grabbed it out of my hand and shoved it in her mouth







before I could get it) and she licked a bit of olive oil/sheep's cheese (the parmesan style) off of my spoon...just the tiniest amount. It's impossible for me to avoid eating in front of her because she needs my attention 100% of the times, and most of the time I need to be holding her too...I mean, she gets very distressed when I don't give her any and I already deal with a cranky baby, so I'd like to keep her happy







But I know that delaying is better...but just little teeny licks? Is that okay?









Also, I posted this on the previous page, but if I have candida, will she too?


I answered your candida question earlier on this thread...

The problem with your DD getting food so early is that if her gut isn't ready for it, more gut problems can result. Is there any way you can limit her to tastes of food just for her (like "tastes" of a fruit or veggie, for instance, particularly a raw one that she isn't likely to get much of anyway)? That way if you do see a reaction at least you'll know what it's to. Or at least avoid giving her any tastes of rice if you can, because so many babies have issues with rice cereal as a first food.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *milkamama* 
hi...i followed and posted for awhile some time ago...
just wanted to add in my 2 cents.
i tried naet for a long time with my ds2 (he has IgE reactions to wheat, soy, egg, rice, tree nuts, nuts and belly troubles with coconut, avacodo, onion...to name a few). although i love, love the dr. performing the naet (i still go for me once a week for craniosacral adjustments), she was more convinced than i regarding the 'elimination' of the allergens. i thought naet was THE end all be all for us. i saw huge improvements in the beginning and raved about how wonderful it is.

what i have learned from our experience is that naet typically ( i know a few folks who have tried it) works fully with older kids (ds1 who is 3.5 had three treatments for egg and is able to consume them, though i don't let him have them all the time and since naet can also consume dairy freely...with no belly trouble) and adults. i am not sure if ds2's system was just such a mess (and mine as well) or if he did clear for a while and then i went crazy and did not limit the 'cleared allergens'.

at the time, my thinking was, he is clear, now he can have say wheat whenever. once he was cleared i did give him large amounts of the cleared item and sure enough after a day or so (sometimes more), he would react again. what i think happens is they do clear, but then we try to consume the cleared allergen freely and maybe (as in my ds2's case) there are other gut issues going on and the cleared foods may stay cleared if say we only had them on a rotational basis. like i said this is just my 2 cents.

i do believe in naet, but i do think there are limitations.

i totally agree with your concern about exposing your dd to the allergens and honestly, at this time we have decided to go the same route. we steer completely away from all his allergens (and possible allergens)...and my ds2 now 26 months has fabulous looking skin, virtually no belly issues and grew 3.4 cm and gained 1 lb. in 3 mths (huge for him). but yeah like i said we have a very restricted diet...i am used to it now, but really miss eating out...having a break from cooking 3 meals a day, 7 days a week (sorry just a bit of self pity there).

i would love to eventually try naet again...if necessary. ds outgrew a dairy allergy what seemed like overnight. we strickly avoided dairy for a LONG time.
and now he can eat all dairy (hence the weight gain and growth) with no trouble. i pray, A LOT about him outgrowing everything and have continued my own gut healing (in hopes of having another baby and not having food issues...positive thoughts).

wow, this was way longer than i expected...hope this is helpful.
peace

Thank you for your experience. It IS helpful. I feel in my gut that avoiding her allergens strictly right now is the thing to do. I had my reservations about NAET, but now I can say I've tried it and I don't think it's our path right now. I feel strongly that we need gut healing and time to get to that "outgrown" allergy stage. I'm so glad to hear that your ds has outgrown his dairy allergy. I'm praying for that, too.

Interestingly, since consuming dairy after such a long time, I was amazed at how crappy it made me feel! I became congested almost immediately after eating cheese or something with milk in it. I've always dealt with this, but never thought it was "abnormal." I do miss the odd cheesy Italian dish and I do wish I could make my own cow's milk yogurt, but otherwise, I don't miss dairy. I would love for dd to outgrow corn, too (I also have minor issues with it) because I wouldn't have to be so vigilant about all the cross contamination and ubiquitous corn derivatives.

Thank you again for sharing your story.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
I looked on the customprobiotic website and the yogurt starter section says you can use almond milk as a starter







I thought that was great, as my dairy on the IgE tests (I know they aren't super accurate) was very very high, and I hadn't consumed dairy in a long time...

I wonder how almond milk yogurt would taste....anyone try it?

Dd is sitting up for about 5 minutes unassisted (although maybe longer, but I typically have a boppy around her just in case), doesn't have any teeth and no sign (although she's been teething like crazy since 3 months), and I don't think she has a pincer grasp, but is very good at grabbing small objects








Is it bad if she just licks foods? Like she loved licking the salt off of my rice cracker, she liked licking my rice dream bar (just a teeny bit...this was her "first" food because she grabbed it out of my hand and shoved it in her mouth







before I could get it) and she licked a bit of olive oil/sheep's cheese (the parmesan style) off of my spoon...just the tiniest amount. It's impossible for me to avoid eating in front of her because she needs my attention 100% of the times, and most of the time I need to be holding her too...I mean, she gets very distressed when I don't give her any and I already deal with a cranky baby, so I'd like to keep her happy







But I know that delaying is better...but just little teeny licks? Is that okay?









Also, I posted this on the previous page, but if I have candida, will she too?

She's got all the good thigns going for her as far as gut flora (homebirth, natural, vaginal, breastfed, etc.) but what happens when the mother's gut flora is horrible? Does she still get the good stuff? what about candida? If I had it, wouldn't she have swallowed whatever was in my vagina during birth. (Is that a silly question?)

My dh is getting really upset about all this that is going on with me. He doesn't really understand it and seems to think that there is some cure out there where all I have to do is take a pill and I'll be better. He seems to think everything that we on this thread talk about is hocus pocus, because no doctors are telling us what to do. Does that make sense? I'm super tired and am not thinking clearly...

Personally, I would be really careful with nuts and nut milk. If you've got poor gut flora, your dd *may* be more susceptible to food allergies. Nuts are a dangerous allergy, so personally, I'd avoid them until my child was a lot older 2 or more. Since my dd already has diagnosed food allergies, we're waiting until she's 4 to introduce them.

And with the licks of food, I'd avoid them, too. My friend was just lamenting today her decision to let her ds eat solids at 4 mths. He seemed really ready and wanted to eat, but now he seems to have developed an allergy to his formula (he is adopted, so not bfed

It's a tough thing to deal with. I have my own regrets about allowing my dd to take antibiotics. I'm not telling you any of this to guilt you into making a decision one way or another, but I just don't want you to have regrets later on.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rachel J.* 
Hmmm, poor ds2 has all the "negative" determinants, except for now being EBF. It's no wonder he has gut issues.

I know it's been asked about a zillion times and I'm sure that if I did a search I'd eventually find an answer, but could anyone tell me a dairy/soy/corn-free infant probiotic?







I currently have three in my fridge that have given ds hives/welts around his mouth after taking them.







: I'm thinking that can't be a good sign.

Any thoughts on l. reuteri's benefits for children and/or adults with gut issues? I'm guessing most have seen/heard about the research indicating that it decreased colic in infants?

I've had a hard time finding an infant's probiotic without all of those ingredients. We currently use UAS labs acidophilus with bifidus. With an infant, you really need bifidus. I'm checking on Natren dairy-free, but I don't know for sure that some of the inactive ingredients aren't derived from corn.


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

wow, spend the day at kindergarten and the park and things get busy around here!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=16882802

RESULTS: ... Infants with older siblings had slightly higher numbers of bifidobacteria, compared with infants without siblings. ...

boy, i read this and promptly visualized dd1 sticking her (grubby little unwashed) fingers into dd2's (pristine) mouth! maybe kids do know best about some things? they're "supposed" to be the bearers of bacteria to their sibs?

thanks for all the great study sifting, bluets!


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## paisleypoet (Nov 17, 2006)

What is NAET? Just curious.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Re: panic attacks and depression "without sweets"

Previous posters mentioned these and I want to HIGHLY recommend _The Mood Cure_ by Julia Ross. You will learn all about amino acids and how they effect your mood. Also how the body's craving for sweets is really a result of low serotonin. Both low protein in diet and inability to convert (properly digest) your proteins into amino acids make this a big factor for anyone who has gut damage. Provides detailed info on how to experiment with amino acids depending on your specific symptoms, but if you want to just go for the best, get an Amino Acid Bloodspot test from Metametrix to see which aminos you are low in.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*Challenge for This Week:*

Can everyone who can test their early AM temps to see if they are low?

Thyroid blood tests in DS are completely normal. But not temps. Our nutritionist has been very dogged in having me research *Wilson's Low Temperature Syndrome* and I think she is right.

Both DS and I temp test low. Apparently the digestive enzymes are produced and are effective in a very low temp range. If your body is too cool it will greatly effect digestion in addition to thyroid hormones that regulate a great deal of processes in the body. Also, a lightbulb went on and I wonder if that also effects your gut flora... we know that yeasts grow at lower temps than bacteria. I wonder if low body temp effects your gut flora balance?

Also, I will be posting our Rotation Diet guidelines in the Cheat Sheet, I know a number of people asked for it. Sorry it took me so long! Make sure you subscribe to the thread to get notified of new changes.

What do you think?


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

JaneS' post got me thinking about the more general relationship between gut flora and body temperature. My temp regulation seems better now than prior to pregnancy and during pregnancy (I was almost always cold while I was pregnant; now I'm usually quite comfortable).

This link popped up and may have some bearing on gut flora, body temp and SLEEP (since I recall that many mamas here have babies wih sleep issues):
http://books.google.com/books?id=C8t...MgNNZOVTbVW-E8

(if you want to repeat my search, i just used google and entered, without quotes, "gut flora basal body temperature")


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

Oral antibiotics reduce body temperature of healthy rabbits in a thermoneutral environment.

Nonabsorbable oral antibiotics, which reduce gut flora, decrease the daytime and night-time body temperatures of rats and mice. We investigated whether oral antibiotics would also lower the body temperature of healthy rabbits. Six rabbits received neomycin sulphate in their drinking water for ten days, and seven rabbits received a mixture of chloramphenicol and dihydroxystreptomycin for six days. Body temperatures, recorded using intra-abdominal radiotelemeters, decreased significantly, by 0.2-0.3 degree C, after three days of antibiotic treatment in both groups of rabbits. The drop in body temperature was transient; after six days body temperatures returned to pre-antibiotic levels. Antibiotic treatment had no effect on either the acrophase or the amplitude of the circadian rhythm in body temperature. Oral antibiotics therefore reduce body temperature of rabbits, without influencing the circadian rhythm in body temperature. Our results are consistent with the hypothesis that an agent arising from intestinal bacteria sustains an elevated body temperature in healthy animals.

so, not only do antibiotics wipe out gut flora, but it takes (rabbits, anyway) 6 DAYS to rebound back to a normal body temperature. wonder how long it takes humans (with a much larger body to heat up)... and so, coupled with the gut flora/sleep piece, if you wipe out your gut flora, you mess up your body temp., making it difficult to re-establish normal gut flora, and you disrupt your sleep cycles.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 

so, not only do antibiotics wipe out gut flora, but it takes (rabbits, anyway) 6 DAYS to rebound back to a normal body temperature. wonder how long it takes humans (with a much larger body to heat up)... and so, coupled with the gut flora/sleep piece, if you wipe out your gut flora, you mess up your body temp., making it difficult to re-establish normal gut flora, and you disrupt your sleep cycles.


The result seems to be messing with your thyroid hormone metabolism:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

B/c if you have low body temps, that means you have a thyroid problem regardless of blood tests... by the production of "Reverse T3" the inactive form.

Wilson's Low Temp information http://www.wilsonsthyroidsyndrome.com/


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

i have always had a low temp, usu 97.4 unless i had a fever. i recall when i was taking basal temp to ttc dd2, i was in the 97 range, and went up to 98.2 when i ovulated.

so this means my thyroid is out of whack? swell.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Yep, and take that as good news if you are having gut problems... might be a big help to you to fix it! (at least that is what I'm trying to look at for DS especially)

Medication freaks me out but we might not have a choice. The theory with treating low temp syndrome is to take only T3 for a while and then it stops the conversion to reverse T3. Not be on it for life. Something like that, still reading.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

If you're tracking BBT, what's the "ideal" range? I don't know if I'll remember/be motivated to take my temps now, but when I was TTC DD they were in the 98.2 range pre-ovulation (I only tracked for 10 days before O'ing in the cycle in which she was conceived). My "symptoms" haven't changed so if I did/didn't have a thyroid problem then it's probably the same now. Really I think I'm more likely to be hyperthyroid than hypothyroid since I have trouble keeping on weight...I don't have any symptoms of being hypothyroid.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Anyone know if persistant low blood pressure can be caused by things other than adrenal fatigue? I always have low blood pressure...guess I need to find some things to help my adrenal glands.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

This is very interesting about the low body temp and thyroid. I am awaiting further thyroid tests, but the last ones I had done (only partially done...) said my T4 was normal, but my "free T4" (???) was high. I guess they are awaiting the T3 results. I have no clue what I'm talking about here...









I've also had a low body temp for a long time now. In fact, when I was in labor it was in the 96 range! Usually it is in the low 97's though. Nobody has ever said anythign about it as abnormal or relating to thyroid...go figure!

Also, my ALP (alkaline phosphitaste?? or something like that...) was high, and my ND said it's usually only high in children because it has somethign to do with growing bones.

And there were some other things that came back as high too, but I am not remembering now.

We're really tryign to figure out what the heck is wrong with my body.

Question:

Can an imbalance of hormones cause any other weird things to happen to your body? Can leaky gut or candida cause hormonal changes, or can imbalanced hormones contribute to a leaky gut/candida??

SOrry about all the questions


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Question:

Can an imbalance of hormones cause any other weird things to happen to your body? Can leaky gut or candida cause hormonal changes, or can imbalanced hormones contribute to a leaky gut/candida??

SOrry about all the questions









I would say "Yes". If I had my copy here, I'd refer to it, but it's on loan... You should read "Sexual Chemistry" by Ellen Grant. She writes (going from rusty memory here) that hormonal changes associated with the pill can change acid/base balance, thereby changing vaginal flora. Hence candida (and other microbial) outbreaks in women who are on the pill. I think one could infer, then, that hormonal changes in general can contribute to changes in flora (gut and otherwise)...

Not on the pill here, but I do notice a change in my bowels when AF visits. I don't change my diet at all, so I can only assume that it is a result of a change in hormones.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
I would say "Yes". If I had my copy here, I'd refer to it, but it's on loan... You should read "Sexual Chemistry" by Ellen Grant. She writes (going from rusty memory here) that hormonal changes associated with the pill can change acid/base balance, thereby changing vaginal flora. Hence candida (and other microbial) outbreaks in women who are on the pill. I think one could infer, then, that hormonal changes in general can contribute to changes in flora (gut and otherwise)...

Not on the pill here, but I do notice a change in my bowels when AF visits. I don't change my diet at all, so I can only assume that it is a result of a change in hormones.

I was on the pill for about 3 years and was as healthy as could be...then I went off of it and started having all sorts of problems...


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Anyone know if persistant low blood pressure can be caused by things other than adrenal fatigue? I always have low blood pressure...guess I need to find some things to help my adrenal glands.

dh uses something called "Adrenergize". Mucho expensive. He only takes 1 pill in the morning, sometimes 1 at lunch, but was instructed NOT to take one n the evening lest he wanted to stay up all night. He DOES notice a difference, albeit a slight one, in his stress level and his anxiety (he's a pretty stressed out dude!) when he's taking the stuff. There's no way I'd be able to get him to actually eat anything that would be useful for adrenal glands, so the capsule is the next best thing. Oh yeah, he cut out coffee/mochas a few years ago, and cut out caffeinated last summer, with chocolate being his major source of caffeine now.

found this comparison (http://www.drrind.com/scorecardmatrix.asp) when looking to see if i had adrenal fatigue. if anything, i fall in the mixed category.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 

Not on the pill here, but I do notice a change in my bowels when AF visits. I don't change my diet at all, so I can only assume that it is a result of a change in hormones.

Me, too. When I was in college, I thought _What in the world do these two systems have to do with eachother?_? But that was before I had a more holistic view of health. Everything's connected.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
If you're tracking BBT, what's the "ideal" range?

Morning temps usually are slightly low normally. Best is taking them every 3 hours during day to average 98.6:

How are Body Temperatures Measured?
http://wilsonstemperaturesyndrome.co...AndAnswers.htm

edit: _The Mood Cure_ talks about adrenal issues too.


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## lincap (Aug 12, 2005)

"I know it's been asked about a zillion times and I'm sure that if I did a search I'd eventually find an answer, but could anyone tell me a dairy/soy/corn-free infant probiotic? I currently have three in my fridge that have given ds hives/welts around his mouth after taking them. I'm thinking that can't be a good sign."

We use Genestra brand... FREE OF EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Janelovesmax (Feb 17, 2006)

I have a question: What is the best way to flush out candida once it starts to die out? Is Fiber blend before bed enough? Or should I do colonics?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Janelovesmax* 
I have a question: What is the best way to flush out candida once it starts to die out? Is Fiber blend before bed enough? Or should I do colonics?

Enemas are supposed to be good for that. I never used anything and the candida seemed to get out by itself just fine without giving me many die-off symptoms


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## PapayaVagina (May 11, 2002)

i just remembered that i needed to scribe for March







boy this thing gets going fast!

i'm working on HTG for me and my 4-month-old dd. i bought a dairy free bifidus probiotic supplement for her and she's been taking it x1 week, i started drinking more kefir (but think I need to culture it more because she seemed to react to it) and am getting a kombucha start on Tuesday. we're still dealing with really strange poo off and on but did have 1 day last week where her poop was almost normal! yay!


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PapayaVagina* 
i just remembered that i needed to scribe for March







boy this thing gets going fast!

i'm working on HTG for me and my 4-month-old dd. i bought a dairy free bifidus probiotic supplement for her and she's been taking it x1 week, i started drinking more kefir (but think I need to culture it more because she seemed to react to it) and am getting a kombucha start on Tuesday. we're still dealing with really strange poo off and on but did have 1 day last week where her poop was almost normal! yay!

Does she react to dairy? If the kefir is bothering her that's most likely what it is, unless she's amine-sensitive. Culturing the kefir longer will just reduce the lactose and it's highly unlikely for babies to be lactose intolerant because there's lactose in BM so they're designed to be able to digest it.


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
*Challenge for This Week:*

Can everyone who can test their early AM temps to see if they are low?

Thyroid blood tests in DS are completely normal. But not temps. Our nutritionist has been very dogged in having me research *Wilson's Low Temperature Syndrome* and I think she is right.

Both DS and I temp test low. Apparently the digestive enzymes are produced and are effective in a very low temp range. If your body is too cool it will greatly effect digestion in addition to thyroid hormones that regulate a great deal of processes in the body. Also, a lightbulb went on and I wonder if that also effects your gut flora... we know that yeasts grow at lower temps than bacteria. I wonder if low body temp effects your gut flora balance?

Also, I will be posting our Rotation Diet guidelines in the Cheat Sheet, I know a number of people asked for it. Sorry it took me so long! Make sure you subscribe to the thread to get notified of new changes.

What do you think?


Very, very interesting. I have always had a low body temperature (hardly ever ran a fever as a child, too), except when I was pregnant with DD #1. I used to call her my little furnace because it was the only time in my life that I didn't have freezing hands and feet. That pregnancy was the healthiest I have ever been, and DD#1 is very healthy (and never cold). DD#2 has a lower body temperature, and I also did when I was pregnant with her, and DD#2 is the one I'm working through all kinds of digestive issues with. DD#2 also has my freezing hands and feet.

Off to read up on wilson's . .


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## PapayaVagina (May 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Does she react to dairy? If the kefir is bothering her that's most likely what it is, unless she's amine-sensitive. Culturing the kefir longer will just reduce the lactose and it's highly unlikely for babies to be lactose intolerant because there's lactose in BM so they're designed to be able to digest it.

Yes she does react to dairy. I was told on another board that if I cultured the kefir longer that she probably wouldn't have issues with it because it will reduce the lactose


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

:


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PapayaVagina* 
Yes she does react to dairy. I was told on another board that if I cultured the kefir longer that she probably wouldn't have issues with it because it will reduce the lactose

But it may not be the lactose. Lactose intolerance means she lacks the enzymes to digest milk sugar (lactose), but an allergy is a sensitivity to a protein (usually). If she's sensitive to casein, the protein in milk, there's nothing you can do except avoid all dairy products.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache* 
But it may not be the lactose. Lactose intolerance means she lacks the enzymes to digest milk sugar (lactose), but an allergy is a sensitivity to a protein (usually). If she's sensitive to casein, the protein in milk, there's nothing you can do except avoid all dairy products.

if she's sensitive to casein, she's likely not sensitive to casein directly - rather, the opioids associated with casein (beta-casomorphin, for example).


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## RachelGS (Sep 29, 2002)

I'm overwhelmed trying to catch up to what all of you already know; I'm a babe in the woods here. I have a sick toddler, though. I need your help. He has had lots of abx exposure (both himself and via breastmilk for many months as I was treated for methicillin-resistant staph in my breast) and seems to have some allergies. He has had chronic diarrhea since early December. Nothing is helping. I need some ideas and am all ears. Thanks, mamas.








:


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RachelGS* 
I'm overwhelmed trying to catch up to what all of you already know; I'm a babe in the woods here. I have a sick toddler, though. I need your help. He has had lots of abx exposure (both himself and via breastmilk for many months as I was treated for methicillin-resistant staph in my breast) and seems to have some allergies. He has had chronic diarrhea since early December. Nothing is helping. I need some ideas and am all ears. Thanks, mamas.








:

You might try Nature's Way L. reuteri probiotic for him...it's supposed to work well for normalizing bowel movements in young children. What have you done for him so far? Has he ever been tested for c. difficile (sp?)?


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## mrsalf97 (Oct 22, 2004)

I'm so glad I found this thread. My dh has ulcerative colitis and is in really bad shape again. He even asked me if I would help him go vegan and gluten free.







: He eats breakfast and lunch in a moving car so that's the main meals I am struggling with. Oh and I have no idea what to send for snacks. He does not tolerate many fruits or veggies so this is a real challenge for me.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mrsalf97* 
I'm so glad I found this thread. My dh has ulcerative colitis and is in really bad shape again. He even asked me if I would help him go vegan and gluten free.







: He eats breakfast and lunch in a moving car so that's the main meals I am struggling with. Oh and I have no idea what to send for snacks. He does not tolerate many fruits or veggies so this is a real challenge for me.

You may want to consider the Specific Carbohydrate Diet--there's some links in the cheat sheet stickied at the top of the forum. Eggs would be a good breakfast food if he'll eat them, and deviled or hard-boiled eggs are portable. The 24 hour yogurt recommended in the SCD would be a good snack, and you can make lots of things with nuts and nut butters (nuts would be a good snack, also). If you're not vegetarian, chicken, tuna, or salmon salad would be good lunch foods.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou* 
Very, very interesting. I have always had a low body temperature (hardly ever ran a fever as a child, too), except when I was pregnant with DD #1. I used to call her my little furnace because it was the only time in my life that I didn't have freezing hands and feet. That pregnancy was the healthiest I have ever been, and DD#1 is very healthy (and never cold). DD#2 has a lower body temperature, and I also did when I was pregnant with her, and DD#2 is the one I'm working through all kinds of digestive issues with. DD#2 also has my freezing hands and feet.

Off to read up on wilson's . .

I'm slogging my way thru the Ebook on the site and it's very very interesting and makes a lot of sense. Shorter if you skp all his analogies!

RE: Pregnancy

Quote:

From Chapter 2
Pregnancy
It should be pointed out that a fetal hormone known as human chorionic gonadotropin also can affect body temperature patterns. When a woman becomes pregnant, the baby begins to produce human chorionic gonadotropin or HCG. *HCG can increase the body's metabolism and body temperature patterns.* This can explain why women suffering from Wilson's Temperature Syndrome frequently do their best while they are pregnant. Unlike other women who often feel tired, feel depressed, and gain weight easily during their pregnancy, some women who are suffering from Wilson's Temperature Syndrome actually fare much better during pregnancy, enjoying much more energy, less depression than usual, and often having unusual success at being able to control their weight. Some women actually report that during their pregnancies were the only times that they were capable of losing weight with proper dieting and exercise. Interestingly, HCG has been used in the past as a treatment to help people lose weight.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RachelGS* 
I'm overwhelmed trying to catch up to what all of you already know; I'm a babe in the woods here. I have a sick toddler, though. I need your help. He has had lots of abx exposure (both himself and via breastmilk for many months as I was treated for methicillin-resistant staph in my breast) and seems to have some allergies. He has had chronic diarrhea since early December. Nothing is helping. I need some ideas and am all ears. Thanks, mamas.








:

I think a pathogen test is warranted too. A full CDSA from Genova plus the C. diff. if he has symptoms. http://www.gdx.net/home/education/da...documents.html

What about allergy testing... our AAEM Ped sees patients at The Marino Center in Cambridge but not sure they do intradermal allergy testing there. He recommends that b/c it seems to be the most sensitive even though it's a PIA. For us it seemed to be very right on. DS is doing a 4 day Rotation Diet including most of his allergens, excepting those which were really bad on testing, and any I notice poop/skin reactions.

The book _Bacteria for Breakfast_ is excellent at explaining the allergy-gut flora connection.
http://books.google.com/books?vid=IS...hgy0DopR51yjKQ


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mrsalf97* 
I'm so glad I found this thread. My dh has ulcerative colitis and is in really bad shape again. He even asked me if I would help him go vegan and gluten free.







: He eats breakfast and lunch in a moving car so that's the main meals I am struggling with. Oh and I have no idea what to send for snacks. He does not tolerate many fruits or veggies so this is a real challenge for me.

I wouldn't go vegan. A vegan diet is already difficult enough with his issues with fruits, veggies... and nuts and beans and soy are all hard to digest too! What else is he to eat? And personally I think it's deficient in many nutrients, one reason being that the minerals are harder to assimilate, and fat soluble vitamins are only in animal products.

If I had UC, I would go as raw as I can... raw grass fed animal products that is... they are easiest to digest and contain tons of nutrients and enzymes. Especially raw milk.

Read Aajonus Vonderplanitz' books, very enlightening.
http://www.karlloren.com/aajonus/index.htm

Would he consider The Raw Milk Cure?
http://www.realmilk.com/milkcure.html

See Dr. Ron Schmidt's article here, he had UC: http://www.westonaprice.org/moderndi...icdisease.html

Read _Nourishing Traditions_ to learn how to soak grains and nuts and beans if he is going to eat those.... and why this is essential for easy digestion.
http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/be_kind.html

Start making bone broths for him, he should have as much as possible everyday:
http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/broth.html
http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeat...beautiful.html


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

OH, ICK...THERE'S A DEAD MOUSE IN THE MOUSETRAP!!! Okay, totally OT, but I had to tell somebody! And I can't just leave it there for the next 4 months until DH gets back...which means I have to touch it...ick ick ick. But at least it's not running around my computer chair anymore.

Now on to the real reason for my post...I definitely react to amines, or at least to too many of them, as I discovered after eating chocolate which is very high in amines. The good news is that all but one of the candida symptoms that I thought were coming back are actually amine reactions. The bad news...I don't want to have amine reactions! In hindsight I'm realizing that some of the "die-off symptoms" I had on the candida diet were actually amine reactions. Which kind of makes me wonder if I had candida issues at all, or if I just had digestive issues and malnutrition issues, and the candida diet was nutrient-dense enough to fix the malnutrition, and water kefirs (amines and all) was enough to fix the digestive issues.

Anyhow, I'm working on cutting back on my amine consumption, and I really hope I can just cut back and that will be enough--I do not want to do Failsafe. It will be a huge PITA and it's not a workable long-term diet financially. Also, it seems like everyone who does the diet is/becomes so sensitive that the least little exposure to a food chemical sets off symptoms, and I'd rather feel slightly off all the time than constantly have to be on my guard against food chemical exposures. At least that's my current cost vs. benefit analysis.

Of course I may end up doing Failsafe anyway if I don't see some improvement in DD soon as I'm at a loss to know what else to do for her. She has her first health kinesiology (similar to NAET) appt on Wednesday and I just hope it helps. If she's "cleared" of wheat or tree nuts I should know right away because she had very clear reactions to those in the past even with just one exposure (through BM). I'm really hoping that she'll be cleared, or have outgrown, her dairy intolerance since it's been almost 6 months since I've had dairy. I'm going to start a dairy trial right after her appt. regardless of whether dairy is "cleared" or not...starting with ghee, then butter, then goat yogurt. I'm a bit concerned about her nutrient status since she only eats meat and veggies and doesn't digest most of that, even with enzymes. And her baby teeth are coming in crooked







I feel like it would be a huge benefit to her if she can tolerate yogurt, and she ought to be able to digest that easily.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

So what does mucus in dd's poop really mean? That's she still reacting to somethign (she has it everyday, but some days are worse), or is it a sign that her gut is a mess (obviously, right?)...but what is happening and where is that mucus coming from?

The SCD book talks a lot about mucus, but I don't know if they're the same thing


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
So what does mucus in dd's poop really mean? That's she still reacting to somethign (she has it everyday, but some days are worse), or is it a sign that her gut is a mess (obviously, right?)...but what is happening and where is that mucus coming from?

The SCD book talks a lot about mucus, but I don't know if they're the same thing









This is just a guess: I believe the gut normally has a thin layer of mucus to protect it. If things go haywire and the gut is inflammed, it produces more and more mucus trying to protect itself, and some of that naturally comes out in the stool. My DD only has mucus in her stool when she's reacting to something. I would guess that either your DD is still reacting to something, or that her gut is so inflammed that everything is causing more inflammation (so kind of the same thing, I guess).

Are you working with a naturopath for your DD? I don't know if you've considered supplementing her with something like l-glutamine to try to heal her gut. Normally I think all supplementation (other than probiotics) should be done through mama until baby starts solids, but in severe cases you might need to do more than what can be done through BM. Just a though, though.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Any of you heard of microscopic colitis? Haven't googled yet, but supposedly the GI found it when he did the colonoscopy. My doc said he wasn't quite sure how it could tell that from what he did, but







.

Based on the recent posts on SCD, I am wondering if I should consider doing it again (for microscopic colitis and IBS and gastritis). I did it last summer and wasn't sure how helpful it was, but then again I also didn't feel that I did it completely exactly.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine* 
Any of you heard of microscopic colitis? Haven't googled yet, but supposedly the GI found it when he did the colonoscopy. My doc said he wasn't quite sure how it could tell that from what he did, but







.

Based on the recent posts on SCD, I am wondering if I should consider doing it again (for microscopic colitis and IBS and gastritis). I did it last summer and wasn't sure how helpful it was, but then again I also didn't feel that I did it completely exactly.

I would definitely give it a go. I have been doing lots of reading on it as my ND thinks it might be something I should try. I have read that if people didn't stick with it 100%, they didn't see much improvement. I guess you have to be really strict! I just called out co-op and I can get a 25 lb bag of almond flour for $184







: I guess the diet is expensive...









Okay....another question:

The past two times I have tried some grape juice (100% organic, no nothing added) I have gotten a really bad headache after and my tummy doesn't feel too good....what's up with that?


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## mykidsmyworld (Jan 18, 2007)

Hi everyone,

I am new to this thread so I'll need some time to catch up!!
I have been battleing my ds eczema since he was 2 months old and have been seeing a ND for the last two months.
He is balancing his gut right now and says that his skin problmes are from an unbalanced eco system...to much bad bacteria and toxin overload








He had horrible eczema all over his body until a few months ago but now it had all migrated to his face and seems to be getting worse...
He is on probiotics right now and other homeopathic drops.
Our ND keeps telling me that this is a process to clean his gut and rebalance the eco system and to expect his skin to errupt b/c the toxins are coming out...
He has even talked about purging any heavy metals that he has from the past vaccine that he had as an infant.
I need to learn more about this whole gut issue because I am a little confused how it all works.

I guess that is all for now since I have little fingers stopping me from typing!


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## buteoridge (Jun 16, 2006)

I am trying to address gut issues in my dd (8 mths) and am curious as to whether or not she can benefit from me taking digestive enzymes since she is EBF. I just started them today, but have been taking probiotics for a few weeks as well. I also give the probiotics to her directly.

She has been having poop problems (green, mucousy, watery, acidic, frequent, etc) for months and we are searching fo the cause through an elimination diet at this time. She has gained very little weight in the past four months (8 ozs I think), so it is clearly causing problems for her growth/development.

I am totally new to this stuff and can use all the help I can get. TIA for your comments.


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
I would definitely give it a go. I have been doing lots of reading on it as my ND thinks it might be something I should try. I have read that if people didn't stick with it 100%, they didn't see much improvement. I guess you have to be really strict! I just called out co-op and I can get a 25 lb bag of almond flour for $184







: I guess the diet is expensive...









Okay....another question:

The past two times I have tried some grape juice (100% organic, no nothing added) I have gotten a really bad headache after and my tummy doesn't feel too good....what's up with that?

I'm going off memory here, but isn't grape juice high in sulfites?


----------



## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
OH, ICK...THERE'S A DEAD MOUSE IN THE MOUSETRAP!!! Okay, totally OT, but I had to tell somebody! And I can't just leave it there for the next 4 months until DH gets back...which means I have to touch it...ick ick ick. But at least it's not running around my computer chair anymore.

Now on to the real reason for my post...I definitely react to amines, or at least to too many of them, as I discovered after eating chocolate which is very high in amines. The good news is that all but one of the candida symptoms that I thought were coming back are actually amine reactions. The bad news...I don't want to have amine reactions! In hindsight I'm realizing that some of the "die-off symptoms" I had on the candida diet were actually amine reactions. Which kind of makes me wonder if I had candida issues at all, or if I just had digestive issues and malnutrition issues, and the candida diet was nutrient-dense enough to fix the malnutrition, and water kefirs (amines and all) was enough to fix the digestive issues.

Anyhow, I'm working on cutting back on my amine consumption, and I really hope I can just cut back and that will be enough--I do not want to do Failsafe. It will be a huge PITA and it's not a workable long-term diet financially. Also, it seems like everyone who does the diet is/becomes so sensitive that the least little exposure to a food chemical sets off symptoms, and I'd rather feel slightly off all the time than constantly have to be on my guard against food chemical exposures. At least that's my current cost vs. benefit analysis.

Of course I may end up doing Failsafe anyway if I don't see some improvement in DD soon as I'm at a loss to know what else to do for her. She has her first health kinesiology (similar to NAET) appt on Wednesday and I just hope it helps. If she's "cleared" of wheat or tree nuts I should know right away because she had very clear reactions to those in the past even with just one exposure (through BM). I'm really hoping that she'll be cleared, or have outgrown, her dairy intolerance since it's been almost 6 months since I've had dairy. I'm going to start a dairy trial right after her appt. regardless of whether dairy is "cleared" or not...starting with ghee, then butter, then goat yogurt. I'm a bit concerned about her nutrient status since she only eats meat and veggies and doesn't digest most of that, even with enzymes. And her baby teeth are coming in crooked







I feel like it would be a huge benefit to her if she can tolerate yogurt, and she ought to be able to digest that easily.

I hope the kinesiology thing works for you guys. Good luck with your trial! was so disappointed that Naet didn't work for us, but I'm still hopeful that dd will outgrow her allergies if we can avoid them for the next 2 yrs or so.

We're not doing failsafe, but I've pretty much decided that dd has a salicylate sensitivity. I'm hoping it's connected to her gut issues and that when we can work those out, she'll be able to tolerate more high sal foods. We've recently reintroduced grapes (limited in number) and she's doing great with them--no reactions! I hope it means her gut is getting better.

I'm still trying to get all the right enzymes into my dd. I wish she wasn't such a picky eater. She's still so small


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou* 
I'm going off memory here, but isn't grape juice high in sulfites?

Sulfties, eh? I know wine is, right? So that could be true.

But then I've been noticing that if I have any sugar, I get headaches. So the grape juice has sugar IN it, not added though, but it is still super sweet. Could it be the sugar? If I have a candida problem, would sugar do that to me? The only thing that doesn't give me headaches with a tad of sugar in it is Green and Black's Organic dark chocolate







I have two squares (they're teeeeeeny!) a night...I know, I know...I probably shouldn't while I'm nursing but it's sooooooooo yummy


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
The past two times I have tried some grape juice (100% organic, no nothing added) I have gotten a really bad headache after and my tummy doesn't feel too good....what's up with that?

Do grapes and raisins give you headaches? Just asking because my best friend has that reaction. It could be the sulfur in the grapes or the salicylates. Also, grapes tend to be high in mold, which many people have a problem with. Or some other reaction. Sorry, not much help, am I?


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## milkamama (May 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
... DS is doing a 4 day Rotation Diet including most of his allergens, excepting those which were really bad on testing, and any I notice poop/skin reactions.

The book _Bacteria for Breakfast_ is excellent at explaining the allergy-gut flora connection.
http://books.google.com/books?vid=IS...hgy0DopR51yjKQ

jane,
i am so curious about your ds's rotation diet. after learning what my ds's triggers are, we decided to completely eliminate them in hopes of him outgrowing them. i would love to hear more about your thinking regarding the allergens in the rotation....really some days, i would just love to pick your brain about all of the healing the gut stuff! thank you!! you have helped me a great deal on our journey toward gut healing. many of your readings and advice has lead to healing...and sanity. i don't always get the chance to post much...my boys keep me very busy...but i read a lot.

peace


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Well DD had her health kinesiology visit today. It was very weird--the practitioner had me touch DD and then would ask questions while muscle testing my arm. Very, very weird...I can understand muscle testing while holding a substance, but muscle testing while asking questions? I don't know, I'm pretty skeptical. Then supposedly she "cleared" some emotional issues and wheat. But I can't trial wheat because she only cleared the allergy (which she described as reactions to the touch, smell, etc, which DD never had in the first place) and didn't clear her tolerance to wheat??? So...I'm supposed to take DD back on Monday and she'll clear most/all of the rest of her allergens and tolerances. I'm not too thrilled with the fact that there's nothing I can trial to see if it even worked before I spend any more money on it, and the whole thing was a bit too new-agey for me...but I feel like now that I've started and spent the money I better go to the next appointment and hopefully accomplish something. The practitioner did say it should not take more than one or two more sessions to be totally done (which is good because I'm certainly not going to cough up money for very long without some indication that this is actually working).

Oh, and she also recommended a homeopathic to help with DD's yeast and gut flora issues--it's called Intestinal Mucosa. Has anyone heard of this?


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## Rachel J. (Oct 30, 2005)

I have a few probiotic related questions for the "pros" here. My poor ds2 is now hoarse from what I assume is reflux due to bad food choices on my part







: I really need to get some safe, quality probiotics into him and have decided that customprobiotics is the best/safest way to go. So, what should I get for an EBF 4 1/2 month old? I'm thinking B. infantis and a little L. Reuteri but are there any other strains that I should include? I feel a little anxious playing with his gut flora but since it's clearly shot already it can't hurt too much. Also, for anyone who has ordered from there, what is a reasonable quantity to buy? I saw that the prices are based on 50 grams usually. How many doses does that average out to? Since it's $15 to ship no matter what you buy I might also get some for myself. Any recommendations? It's just so expensive, I'd like to get it right.

2nd issue (I'm just full of questions today







), I just got my first 2 gallons of raw milk







(where's the dancing cow?) and I want to make some yogurt for ds1 (the constipated guy). For now I'll probably just use Dannon since that's readily available and throw in some of the L. Reuteri probiotics I have. Is the yogurt starter from customprobiotics worth getting?

Okay, that's enough questions for now. Maybe one day soon I'll have enough experience/knowledge to give input here instead of just take, take, take.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 

Oh, and she also recommended a homeopathic to help with DD's yeast and gut flora issues--it's called Intestinal Mucosa. Has anyone heard of this?

what does it have in it? the info on the 2 websites i found are less than revealing.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rachel J.* 
I have a few probiotic related questions for the "pros" here. My poor ds2 is now hoarse from what I assume is reflux due to bad food choices on my part







: I really need to get some safe, quality probiotics into him and have decided that customprobiotics is the best/safest way to go. So, what should I get for an EBF 4 1/2 month old? I'm thinking B. infantis and a little L. Reuteri but are there any other strains that I should include? I feel a little anxious playing with his gut flora but since it's clearly shot already it can't hurt too much. Also, for anyone who has ordered from there, what is a reasonable quantity to buy? I saw that the prices are based on 50 grams usually. How many doses does that average out to? Since it's $15 to ship no matter what you buy I might also get some for myself. Any recommendations? It's just so expensive, I'd like to get it right.

2nd issue (I'm just full of questions today







), I just got my first 2 gallons of raw milk







(where's the dancing cow?) and I want to make some yogurt for ds1 (the constipated guy). For now I'll probably just use Dannon since that's readily available and throw in some of the L. Reuteri probiotics I have. Is the yogurt starter from customprobiotics worth getting?

Okay, that's enough questions for now. Maybe one day soon I'll have enough experience/knowledge to give input here instead of just take, take, take.









You probably want only the b. infantis for your baby as something like 90% of the good bacteria in an EBF baby's gut is that strain. If you tell them it's for an infant they'll sell you 25 grams. At 50 billion CFU's a day that would last you roughly 4 months, or at 25 billion CFU's a day 8 months. For yourself...maybe the adult capsules, or else they have a 6 strain blend that might be good. I got that one for my DD and had them add a couple of extra strains to it.

As long as your DS is okay with dairy I don't think it really matters what yogurt starter you use.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
what does it have in it? the info on the 2 websites i found are less than revealing.

I don't know, you probably looked at the same sites I looked at! The more I think about that whole visit, the less I like it. If I had realized beforehand what was it was going to be like, I would not have taken DD to it. Now I'm debating whether I should try another session just to finish it, or whether I should just cut my losses.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Caedmyn, I have been working with a kineseologist who also does homeopathics, and what she does is ask questions while energy testing to "ask the body what it needs." There are plenty of people who discount this, including energy healer Donna Eden, but to me it made sense. I am going with her because I like her and am optimistic about our cases. However, if your intuition is telling you it's not going to work, listen to that. I don't know. It's hard to work without a professional, but when you get into the fringe stuff, it's hard to find someone who is right, isn't it? Oh, and the homeopathic looks like a flower essence, right? This is what I found: http://www.apexenergetics.com/catalo...ients.htm#R-23
Maybe you could look each of the remedies up separately and see what they do, and use the individual one that seems right?


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

from pookietooth's link, it's a combination remedy with a lot of different potencies (the 3x 6c stuff) mixed together. a classical homeopath wouldn't recommend this type of remedy, they prefer to try one remedy at a time.

R-23 INTESTINAL MUCOSA
ARNICA for trauma
CANTHARIS (spanish fly), usually for burns
PLATINUM MET. not sure of the indication, but metals are often used as remedies, more commonly sulpher, phosphorus, mercury.
CALENDULA good for skin healing, and intestines are skin... sort of
NITRICUM ACIDUM nitric acid, not sure of the indication
CROCUS SATIVUM a flower, not sure of the indication
ADENOSINE TRIPHOSPHATE (ATP) basic unit of aerobic metabolism: ATP <-> ADP + P +energy (eeek, 1992 exercise phys flashback) not sure of the indication.

i looked up the links from materia medica, at ABC homeopathy, but didn't find an entry for ATP.

the potencies indicate how dilute it is (more dilute=more powerful). remedies are prepared by serial dilution. x=10, c=100, so 3x=1/1,000 6c=1/1,000,000,000,000 (1/100 to the 6th power). dilutions above 12c don't really have the likelihood to have even one molecule of original substance left (since < avogadro's number), but purportedly leave an energy imprint on the water molecules that can be seen with an electron microscope. not sure why they would combine potencies.

hope this doesn't muddle things further for you, caedmyn.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
Do grapes and raisins give you headaches? Just asking because my best friend has that reaction. It could be the sulfur in the grapes or the salicylates. Also, grapes tend to be high in mold, which many people have a problem with. Or some other reaction. Sorry, not much help, am I?

Nope....grapes don't and I haven't had raisins in a while, but they never did before. Maybe it's just the high sugar content in the juice or something?


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Well DD had her health kinesiology visit today. It was very weird--the practitioner had me touch DD and then would ask questions while muscle testing my arm. Very, very weird...I can understand muscle testing while holding a substance, but muscle testing while asking questions? I don't know, I'm pretty skeptical. Then supposedly she "cleared" some emotional issues and wheat. But I can't trial wheat because she only cleared the allergy (which she described as reactions to the touch, smell, etc, which DD never had in the first place) and didn't clear her tolerance to wheat??? So...I'm supposed to take DD back on Monday and she'll clear most/all of the rest of her allergens and tolerances. I'm not too thrilled with the fact that there's nothing I can trial to see if it even worked before I spend any more money on it, and the whole thing was a bit too new-agey for me...but I feel like now that I've started and spent the money I better go to the next appointment and hopefully accomplish something. The practitioner did say it should not take more than one or two more sessions to be totally done (which is good because I'm certainly not going to cough up money for very long without some indication that this is actually working).

Oh, and she also recommended a homeopathic to help with DD's yeast and gut flora issues--it's called Intestinal Mucosa. Has anyone heard of this?


We saw a kinesiologist, but only to muscle test certain foods to see if dd or I reacted to them. The kinesiologist we saw is GREAT and was dead on every time. She never tried to eliminate the allergies though and I didn't know they could do that...I hope it works out for you!!

I'm interested in how the homeopathic remedy helps. Keep us updated!!


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
You probably want only the b. infantis for your baby as something like 90% of the good bacteria in an EBF baby's gut is that strain. If you tell them it's for an infant they'll sell you 25 grams. At 50 billion CFU's a day that would last you roughly 4 months, or at 25 billion CFU's a day 8 months. For yourself...maybe the adult capsules, or else they have a 6 strain blend that might be good. I got that one for my DD and had them add a couple of extra strains to it.

As long as your DS is okay with dairy I don't think it really matters what yogurt starter you use.

I called him again yesterday and he kept asking me if I could hang on







and then eventually said, "I'm pretty busy today, can you call back and order tomorrow?" I was like, what the heck...does this guy not want my $200??? It was funny though...

So our ND has dd on the blend of probiotics I am taking because they skew against TH1 (something about autism, those were her words). They don't even contain B. Infantis and even contain FOS (which I don't like the idea of). So I originally thought I should get the lactate free ones, but if you're saying that babies should only get B. Infantis, should I NOT get those? Dd is 6 months.
I was going to get the lactate free and take those myself as well, and get the capsule for me too. I need some major gut healing here...

Oh, and we went to a mother's get together yesterday and my ND goes with her daughter. She sat down next to us with a plate of food and dd was sitting on the floor and reached out her arms towards the plate and made the sounds, "eh, eh, eh!" It was so funny. The ND was like, "I have NEVER seen a baby her age want food so badly!"

So yea, delaying solids is going to be REALLY interesting


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## Rachel J. (Oct 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
You probably want only the b. infantis for your baby as something like 90% of the good bacteria in an EBF baby's gut is that strain. If you tell them it's for an infant they'll sell you 25 grams. At 50 billion CFU's a day that would last you roughly 4 months, or at 25 billion CFU's a day 8 months. For yourself...maybe the adult capsules, or else they have a 6 strain blend that might be good. I got that one for my DD and had them add a couple of extra strains to it.

As long as your DS is okay with dairy I don't think it really matters what yogurt starter you use.

Thanks for the recommendations. Considering how long that will last compared to other high quality probiotics they actually have reasonable prices. That's a relief (on the pocketbook).


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## Rachel J. (Oct 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Nope....grapes don't and I haven't had raisins in a while, but they never did before. Maybe it's just the high sugar content in the juice or something?


I know that a lot of people struggling with candida issues (hence gut issues) get hangovers/headaches from overfeeding the little critters as well as from die off due to starving them.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
Caedmyn, I have been working with a kineseologist who also does homeopathics, and what she does is ask questions while energy testing to "ask the body what it needs." There are plenty of people who discount this, including energy healer Donna Eden, but to me it made sense. I am going with her because I like her and am optimistic about our cases. However, if your intuition is telling you it's not going to work, listen to that. I don't know. It's hard to work without a professional, but when you get into the fringe stuff, it's hard to find someone who is right, isn't it? Oh, and the homeopathic looks like a flower essence, right? This is what I found: http://www.apexenergetics.com/catalo...ients.htm#R-23
Maybe you could look each of the remedies up separately and see what they do, and use the individual one that seems right?

What sorts of questions does she ask, and have you seen any results?

I can maybe see that if she was testing me, she could say "garlic" and my body would react if I had a problem with garlic. But DD doesn't have a clue what garlic is, and I don't believe her body is magically going to react to the word garlic. And how are her cells going to know if a particular homeopathic remedy is right for her? And supposedly at the next session she's supposed to ask questions to determine DD's tolerances for certain foods...like DD can tell if I can only eat 1/4 c. of yogurt a day. And how the heck are a bunch of coils in vials taped to meridians on my and DD's bodies going to eliminate DD's allergies? I still feel like it could work, but logically, no, it isn't going to happen. But I hate to feel like I'm throwing all that money away if one more session would actually do something...

I'm going to call the two NAET practitioners in town today. I do actually believe in the theory of muscle testing (when it involves actually holding the substances, not by questioning), and I think that tapping could eliminate allergies, so that might be better for us if it's not too expensive.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *formerluddite* 
from pookietooth's link, it's a combination remedy with a lot of different potencies (the 3x 6c stuff) mixed together. a classical homeopath wouldn't recommend this type of remedy, they prefer to try one remedy at a time.

R-23 INTESTINAL MUCOSA
ARNICA for trauma
CANTHARIS (spanish fly), usually for burns
PLATINUM MET. not sure of the indication, but metals are often used as remedies, more commonly sulpher, phosphorus, mercury.
CALENDULA good for skin healing, and intestines are skin... sort of
NITRICUM ACIDUM nitric acid, not sure of the indication
CROCUS SATIVUM a flower, not sure of the indication
ADENOSINE TRIPHOSPHATE (ATP) basic unit of aerobic metabolism: ATP <-> ADP + P +energy (eeek, 1992 exercise phys flashback) not sure of the indication.

i looked up the links from materia medica, at ABC homeopathy, but didn't find an entry for ATP.

the potencies indicate how dilute it is (more dilute=more powerful). remedies are prepared by serial dilution. x=10, c=100, so 3x=1/1,000 6c=1/1,000,000,000,000 (1/100 to the 6th power). dilutions above 12c don't really have the likelihood to have even one molecule of original substance left (since < avogadro's number), but purportedly leave an energy imprint on the water molecules that can be seen with an electron microscope. not sure why they would combine potencies.

hope this doesn't muddle things further for you, caedmyn.

Thanks...I like the idea of it but I've never had any success with combination homeopathic remedies, so I think I'll pass on it. I should look to see if there's a single remedy for gut healing or yeast overgrowth or that sort of thing, though.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
I called him again yesterday and he kept asking me if I could hang on







and then eventually said, "I'm pretty busy today, can you call back and order tomorrow?" I was like, what the heck...does this guy not want my $200??? It was funny though...

So our ND has dd on the blend of probiotics I am taking because they skew against TH1 (something about autism, those were her words). They don't even contain B. Infantis and even contain FOS (which I don't like the idea of). So I originally thought I should get the lactate free ones, but if you're saying that babies should only get B. Infantis, should I NOT get those? Dd is 6 months.
I was going to get the lactate free and take those myself as well, and get the capsule for me too. I need some major gut healing here...

Yeah I had that experience with him, too! Maybe he has big clients on the other lines









I believe when a baby is born their immune system is skewed to Th1...basically so they can survive the pregnancy since they're essential a foreign body within the mother. As they develop their immune system slowly transitions so it is Th2 skewed. Sometimes this process doesn't happen correctly (vaccines especially interefere with it) and the immune system stays Th1 skewed, which causes problems. Hopefully I've got that right...I'm a bit fuzzy on the details, but anyway, I think your ND is recommending a probiotic that she thinks will help your DD's immune system (and food tolerances) develop normally.

Does the probiotic you were going to get have the same strains as the one she's currently on? You could always give her both... Since your DD's pretty close to the age when she'll start solids, I don't know how practical it is to buy a bunch (# of doses-wise, anyway) of b. infantis when she can certainly go to other strains once she "officially" starts solids. Does that make sense?


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
We saw a kinesiologist, but only to muscle test certain foods to see if dd or I reacted to them. The kinesiologist we saw is GREAT and was dead on every time. She never tried to eliminate the allergies though and I didn't know they could do that...I hope it works out for you!!

I'm interested in how the homeopathic remedy helps. Keep us updated!!

Did she muscle tests while you (or your DD) was holding the substance (or a homeopathic dilution of the substance) she was testing?


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
I should look to see if there's a single remedy for gut healing or yeast overgrowth or that sort of thing, though.

too bad they don't make homeopathically prepared _candida albicans_... considering how many people have yeast probs (look at all the money monistat must make) i'm really surprised they don't. but i guess they view such problems as "whole organism" issues and treat them constitutionally.

we did NAET (and 5wks of candida diet/herbs/enzymes/probiotics) when dd1 was 21mos, with mixed success. her sleep stayed an issue, but her eczema pretty much went away, even after reintroducing dairy and soy. (it came back after we had her vaxed with hepA before a trip to india, scaremongering got to me







: ). i held dd1 and the accupucturist tested me (and cleared her) as dd1 held the vials one by one. then because so much was positive, she started resting dd1's foot on as many vials in the box as possible at a time, and clearing lots at a time. i also felt much better and much less reactive to my uncleared allergens (acacia pollen, animals, she said you have to clear for each individual animal, ie "fido," not just generic dog) after treatment, but i think things have worsened since i kind of let things go after a while, and i'm pretty sure a fair amount of yeast is with us again, so we're probably sensitized again. i certainly reacted quickly and strongly to an overload of coconut (fresh, oil, milk) a month or so ago.

i know all of these "energy medicines" take suspension of disbelief, since the framework is so foreign to western medical teaching, and it's hard to $pend the buck$ for something that could just as easily be snake oil.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *formerluddite* 
too bad they don't make homeopathically prepared _candida albicans_... considering how many people have yeast probs (look at all the money monistat must make) i'm really surprised they don't. but i guess they view such problems as "whole organism" issues and treat them constitutionally.



ah, but they do:
http://www.nelsonshomoeopathy.co.uk/...91766095.shtml
(available in the US at http://www.smallflower.com/product/1784)

and although you won't find it on Boiron's website, Boiron does have a Candida product (and i could swear that i saw this locally in our HFS).
http://www.smallflower.com/product/15103

has anyone tried the RenewLife Candigone? (http://www.smallflower.com/product/22219)


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Had to share...

http://biochemistry.louisville.edu/education/altmed.htm

Am I the only one who thinks that this website is one-sided?

I am truly tempted to write to the faculty member but then I'm just beyond the point of being irritated that any attempt to write would just be futile. But then I think about the pathetic education those students are getting - that their role model isn't walking the walk, so to speak. Being critical about something means that one needs to consider both sides of the situation, no?

We just received delivery at home of a book called "The Rave Diet" or some such thing. Mostly because it comes with a DVD called "Eating!" that is supposed to be a good watch. Well, the author in the book is preachy, takes a truly "if you don't eat my way, you're an idiot" attitude (dh notices these things more than I) and has the same type of bias (only presenting facts to suit HIS point of view)...


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

but i did find a really good website the other day:

http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/index.cfm

not at all glamorous but filled with useful information.

this doc, according to her writings, would never advocate a highly restrictive diet for long periods of time because one then starts reacting to everything.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
What sorts of questions does she ask, and have you seen any results?

I can maybe see that if she was testing me, she could say "garlic" and my body would react if I had a problem with garlic. But DD doesn't have a clue what garlic is, and I don't believe her body is magically going to react to the word garlic. And how are her cells going to know if a particular homeopathic remedy is right for her? And supposedly at the next session she's supposed to ask questions to determine DD's tolerances for certain foods...like DD can tell if I can only eat 1/4 c. of yogurt a day. And how the heck are a bunch of coils in vials taped to meridians on my and DD's bodies going to eliminate DD's allergies? I still feel like it could work, but logically, no, it isn't going to happen. But I hate to feel like I'm throwing all that money away if one more session would actually do something...

I'm going to call the two NAET practitioners in town today. I do actually believe in the theory of muscle testing (when it involves actually holding the substances, not by questioning), and I think that tapping could eliminate allergies, so that might be better for us if it's not too expensive.

Caedmyn,
Our NAET practitioner didn't ask questions, but I read in the NAET book that some practitioners will do that. As I mentioned, it didn't work for us, but I hope it does for you. BTW, we paid $60 per visit, but our friends in another state pay $40 per visit. Hopefully, it won't be too costly, especially if there's a chance it will help you.


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
ah, but they do:
http://www.nelsonshomoeopathy.co.uk/...91766095.shtml
(available in the US at http://www.smallflower.com/product/1784)

and although you won't find it on Boiron's website, Boiron does have a Candida product (and i could swear that i saw this locally in our HFS).
http://www.smallflower.com/product/15103

has anyone tried the RenewLife Candigone? (http://www.smallflower.com/product/22219)

i should be paying you a retainer, bluets.

can you imagine 50M potency? 1/1,000 to the 50th power? lessee... that would be avogadro's number to the 6th power, so there's 6:1 odds that there's not a single particle left.

we used renewlife for lucy's candida cleanse, but used paragone for kids (she was ~22lbs at the time, i think i used 1/3 or 1/2 capsule/dose). i'm not sure why the accupuncturist recommended that one, maybe there isn't/wasn't candigone for kids? she didn't have me take the herbs because of nursing, said they'd have made the milk bitter.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Did she muscle tests while you (or your DD) was holding the substance (or a homeopathic dilution of the substance) she was testing?

No, the kin. we saw has been doing this for so long and is so good at it, that she only needs for us to tell her what we want her to check, and if it's something she does all the time like eggs, wheat or dairy, etc. she can just feel the "energy" and touch dd and tell. It's crazy! But I trust her completely...she's amazing. She even can pick up a supplement from a pile (she works with my ND a lot), touch me, and tell me that it will be 90% beneficial and I should take "this many pills, this many times a day" and she has NO idea what she even picked up. My ND will say, "yup! That's the one I was going to give her."

For dd, she would ask, "If mom consumes this food, dd will be (insert percentage here) in distress/benefited.

She really has been dead on every time and it freaks us all out








About a year ago when she first met with me (I was pregnant then) said, "I am getting an energy around your large intestine. It is in much distress."

A year later I find out I have a very leaky gut. Crazy, huh?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
No, the kin. we saw has been doing this for so long and is so good at it, that she only needs for us to tell her what we want her to check, and if it's something she does all the time like eggs, wheat or dairy, etc. she can just feel the "energy" and touch dd and tell. It's crazy! But I trust her completely...she's amazing. She even can pick up a supplement from a pile (she works with my ND a lot), touch me, and tell me that it will be 90% beneficial and I should take "this many pills, this many times a day" and she has NO idea what she even picked up. My ND will say, "yup! That's the one I was going to give her."

For dd, she would ask, "If mom consumes this food, dd will be (insert percentage here) in distress/benefited.

She really has been dead on every time and it freaks us all out







About a year ago when she first met with me (I was pregnant then) said, "I am getting an energy around your large intestine. It is in much distress."

A year later I find out I have a very leaky gut. Crazy, huh?

Have you actually been helped by any of the stuff she's recommended? She sounds like she does the same type of kinesiology as the person DD saw yesterday.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache* 
Caedmyn,
Our NAET practitioner didn't ask questions, but I read in the NAET book that some practitioners will do that. As I mentioned, it didn't work for us, but I hope it does for you. BTW, we paid $60 per visit, but our friends in another state pay $40 per visit. Hopefully, it won't be too costly, especially if there's a chance it will help you.

I spoke to one of the two NAET practitioners in town today and it's $60 a visit, and he seemed to think it would take 6-10 visits total. I have a call in to the other one and I'm hoping she's cheaper.


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## stellasmum (Oct 17, 2002)

Hi- I am getting an education here! My sister has a 2 mo old that has had every problem in the book - problems sleeping, diaper rash, yeast, gastro-intestinal cramps, diarrhea, supposed acid reflux, spitting up, continuous crying, all starting with some post-birth breathing difficulty leading to a stay in the NICU - which turned out to be "nothing"!

So what do you knowledgeable moms think about acid reflux in infants? This baby's pediatricians seem to say it's Zantac, Prevacid, Maalox (yes! for an infant!!!) tummy drops until 3-6 months?!?! No one is mentioning probiotics...I insisted to my sister it could be her intestinal flora, since mom had abx for mastitis, then a few days of abx for a phantom UTI, which she had to abandon for allergic reaction!!

this poor family!

Any advice anyone?? Mom is trying an elimination diet - but there is so much going into baby and so many things being tried it is hard to know WHAT is helping or hurting!!!


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## Rachel J. (Oct 30, 2005)

We had Noah's 6 (actually 7)month check up today. He was 10 weeks early so actually 4 1/2 months adjusted and today weighed 10lbs, 6oz. He's not even close to being on the charts but as long has he charts with the curve there's no concern. At this point he's not quite keeping up with the curve and his ped wants me to add some calories to make sure he's growing appropriately (brain growth concerns). I'm okay with that given Noah's less than ideal or normal situation. However his ped suggested rice cereal or oatmeal and given his reaction to wheat and oats in my diet I'm not very comfortable with giving a 4 1/2 mo grains. I'd rather wait on any solids for a very long time given his apparent gut issues with food sensitivity but realistically I may need to consider boosting his calorie intake in addition to breastmilk. I'd thought about fish/cod liver oil and/or EVOO. Any thoughts, suggestions or warnings? I may call the ped back and ask to come in for a weight check in a few weeks before starting real food. This was our first visit with this ped (he was my childhood ped) and I really want to stick with him. He's totally okay with my not vaxing which is a huge relief.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rachel J.* 
We had Noah's 6 (actually 7)month check up today. He was 10 weeks early so actually 4 1/2 months adjusted and today weighed 10lbs, 6oz. He's not even close to being on the charts but as long has he charts with the curve there's no concern. At this point he's not quite keeping up with the curve and his ped wants me to add some calories to make sure he's growing appropriately (brain growth concerns). I'm okay with that given Noah's less than ideal or normal situation. However his ped suggested rice cereal or oatmeal and given his reaction to wheat and oats in my diet I'm not very comfortable with giving a 4 1/2 mo grains. I'd rather wait on any solids for a very long time given his apparent gut issues with food sensitivity but realistically I may need to consider boosting his calorie intake in addition to breastmilk. I'd thought about fish/cod liver oil and/or EVOO. Any thoughts, suggestions or warnings? I may call the ped back and ask to come in for a weight check in a few weeks before starting real food. This was our first visit with this ped (he was my childhood ped) and I really want to stick with him. He's totally okay with my not vaxing which is a huge relief.

CLO or EVOO seem like decent choices to me if you feel you need to add something. You could also consider CO or coconut milk, which have some similarities to BM, or, if he seems okay with dairy thus far, ghee, butter, or cream. The EVOO's probably the least allergenic of the fats, but also the least desirable in terms of essential fatty acids. Not necessarily bad, but not beneficial, either.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rachel J.* 
We had Noah's 6 (actually 7)month check up today. He was 10 weeks early so actually 4 1/2 months adjusted and today weighed 10lbs, 6oz. He's not even close to being on the charts but as long has he charts with the curve there's no concern. At this point he's not quite keeping up with the curve and his ped wants me to add some calories to make sure he's growing appropriately (brain growth concerns). I'm okay with that given Noah's less than ideal or normal situation. However his ped suggested rice cereal or oatmeal and given his reaction to wheat and oats in my diet I'm not very comfortable with giving a 4 1/2 mo grains. I'd rather wait on any solids for a very long time given his apparent gut issues with food sensitivity but realistically I may need to consider boosting his calorie intake in addition to breastmilk. I'd thought about fish/cod liver oil and/or EVOO. Any thoughts, suggestions or warnings? I may call the ped back and ask to come in for a weight check in a few weeks before starting real food. This was our first visit with this ped (he was my childhood ped) and I really want to stick with him. He's totally okay with my not vaxing which is a huge relief.

Flaxseed oil is a good oil to add to food (not to cook with, though).


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *formerluddite* 
too bad they don't make homeopathically prepared _candida albicans_... considering how many people have yeast probs (look at all the money monistat must make) i'm really surprised they don't.

But they do! There are several, in fact. There is Can Albex, which is by a company called Genestra brands -- I'm taking it. And there is Pleo Alb, which is by a company called Sanum-Kahlbeck in Germany. My naturopath gave them to me.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Have you actually been helped by any of the stuff she's recommended? She sounds like she does the same type of kinesiology as the person DD saw yesterday.

She does both. She uses the vials with the substances in them, having the person being tested hold them and muscle testing. She also uses the same method to pick a remedy -- most are combination remedies, but some are single -- or other supplement. Then once she's picked one, she will say like "take this 1,2,3, times for 1,2,3 weeks or whatever, muscle testing for each number to determine the right one.

I feel like I've had some progress -- my vulvar itching is better, and my menstrual cycles are now pretty regular. Also, ds's nosebleeds are pretty much gone. He still gets food reactions, which I forgot to mention to her. But in general he seems a lot healthier. I feel better emotionally, too, which is a good thing. And I've had some other good things happen, like now dh is ready to have another baby (woo hoo!), which I think are related to my improvement.

One weird thing was that she recommended I "train" ds to sleep through the night by giving him rewards, like a point system with toys for not waking up. And she said to night wean him too. So she's still a bit mainstream in that regard. She has three kids and says they are all good sleepers because of her training them. Ugh!


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Rachel, my doctor pressured me to start rice cereal with ds at 4 months saying he needed more calories -- come to find out it's much less calorie dense than bm. Anyway, I tried it and came to regret it, as it brought back his thrush and changed the smell of his poop (now I know because he was no longer EBF and didn't have a virgin gut anymore and had nasty buggie in him). I would say oil would be higher in calories than bm, and of course raw oil is more digestible. If you really think it would help. But remember too that those charts are based on white midwestern kids who were formula fed and started on solids at 6 weeks. Also, bf babies tend to self-regulate, and yours would probably just nurse less to make up for the increased calories from the oil. Unless you are having a malabsorbtion issue or something.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
But they do! There are several, in fact. There is Can Albex, which is by a company called Genestra brands -- I'm taking it. And there is Pleo Alb, which is by a company called Sanum-Kahlbeck in Germany. My naturopath gave them to me.

Do they seem to be helping you?


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## Rachel J. (Oct 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
Rachel, my doctor pressured me to start rice cereal with ds at 4 months saying he needed more calories -- come to find out it's much less calorie dense than bm. Anyway, I tried it and came to regret it, as it brought back his thrush and changed the smell of his poop (now I know because he was no longer EBF and didn't have a virgin gut anymore and had nasty buggie in him). I would say oil would be higher in calories than bm, and of course raw oil is more digestible. If you really think it would help. But remember too that those charts are based on white midwestern kids who were formula fed and started on solids at 6 weeks. Also, bf babies tend to self-regulate, and yours would probably just nurse less to make up for the increased calories from the oil. Unless you are having a malabsorbtion issue or something.









Yeah, ds1 got a few things too early here and there (rice cereal to thicken his pumped bm- doesn't work, applesauce for meds- didn't work, juice for his constipation) and I regret it. I also thought cereal, besides being undigestable w/o breastmilk, was less calorie-dense than bm. Noah was born early because of interuterine growth retardation so he was only 2 lbs at birth and also seems to have some trouble consistently gaining weight.

Thank you all for reassuring me that oils will be okay for him if I go that route. I'm really going to consider this before going ahead with it. If I do this I'll probably just give him some droppers full of oil. He reacts to coconut so that's out, although I seem to be able to get away with some oil in my diet. I'm just concerned that he seems to be reacting to more and more foods in my diet so there's no way that dumping food directly into his gut could have a positive outcome. I guess I just have to weigh the risks of poor growth/brain development with a damaged gut







:


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## Rachel J. (Oct 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
Had to share...

http://biochemistry.louisville.edu/education/altmed.htm

Am I the only one who thinks that this website is one-sided?

If you really want to be annoyed check out quackwatch.com. This MD pretty much bashes everything that isn't straight forward allopathy. He ridiculed NAET b/c the creator said she was allergic to sugar and you "can't" be allergic to sugar, your body needs it







: If you can't be allergic then why eczema (symptoms) go away when it was avoided like it did in my sister's friend? He doesn't even consider that a person could react to the chemical alteration of processed sugar or the actual chemicals used in processing or something else entirely. He's sooo simplistic and arrogant and it ticks me off that lots of people searching for information about alternative medicine options will find his misleading information.


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

I just saw this link on another list I'm on. I know it's mainstream medicine but wanted to pass it on anyway. I would still try to take care of gut problems at their source to cure it in the long-run.

_In brief, the drug blocks the increase in the spaces between cells in the
small intestine ~ i.e., the drug tightens up a "leaky" gut. If I
understand the webpage correctly, this drug decreases inflammation (from
Food Allergies, Crohn's Disease, Celiac Disease, etc.) by blocking the
mast cells in the small intestine from recruiting white blood cells into
the gut. This drug looks really promising as a new treatment for EGE and
other small bowel inflammatory diseases._

http://www.freshpatents.com/Agonist-...pe=description


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USAmma* 
I just saw this link on another list I'm on. I know it's mainstream medicine but wanted to pass it on anyway. I would still try to take care of gut problems at their source to cure it in the long-run.

_In brief, the drug blocks the increase in the spaces between cells in the
small intestine ~ i.e., the drug tightens up a "leaky" gut. If I
understand the webpage correctly, this drug decreases inflammation (from
Food Allergies, Crohn's Disease, Celiac Disease, etc.) by blocking the
mast cells in the small intestine from recruiting white blood cells into
the gut. This drug looks really promising as a new treatment for EGE and
other small bowel inflammatory diseases._

http://www.freshpatents.com/Agonist-...pe=description

That's fascinating. Interesting, too, that many doctors (well, allergists) dismiss that the gut has any importance in matters of food allergies, but here iis a potential drug to address that. Probably in ten years, all the allergists will be on board (for now, all mine can say is that it's "unlucky genetics," which I definitely don't buy).


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

In my dd's case it is due to faulty genetics-- but we are trying to heal her by taking away the foods she is reacting too, healing her, and then doing very slow and careful food trials. I guess dd's GI is on board with not just giving pills but actually finding out what the cause is.

As a lifetime allergy sufferer it's been very frustrating to go into a doctor's office in the past, tell them I'm having bad allergy symptoms,and then have them give me a pill instead of trying to figure out exactly what allergy it might be or how best to change my lifestyle to make things more comfortable. I was the one who did the research on removing carpets, covering the mattresses, etc. I did sublingual immonotherapy with an NP and maybe it's just coincidence, maybe not, but I'm off all asthma meds now except if I get a bad UPI.

Coming from a genetic standpoint-- not sure about celiac's and chrones, but there have been some genes located that have to do with sinintis, asthma, and my dd's condition eosinophilic esophagitis (and also eosinophils in the lower gut known as EG and EC, basically white blood cells that cause inflammation, diarrhea, etc). They are all closely related. You can do a search on the genes: eotaxin-1, eotaxin-2, and eotaxin-3. In their non mutated form they protect the body against parasites and viruses and stuff. In the mutated forms there are some repeated gene sequences that make the genes overreactive. The more repeats, the more reactive they are and the worse the person is affected. Instead of just reacting appropriately to the parasites, for example, the reaction is for food proteins and other things, and they go ballistic and make way too much protein, attracts way too many white blood cells, and cause all the gut problems. It's very facinating stuff. They hope to oneday make a protein blocker for eo-3 that will help with my dd's condition. With eo-2 I think Singulair is that blocker. If they do come up with a med that doesn't mean I'll just let her eat anything, KWIM?


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Have you actually been helped by any of the stuff she's recommended? She sounds like she does the same type of kinesiology as the person DD saw yesterday.

Well, it's hard to tell. She recommended some homeopathic remedies and one that I took I saw improvement with my eczema, but it didn't last long. The others didn't help at all, or at least I couldn't tell that they helped. She does other things with supplements, but those are harder to tell if they are helping (like CLO, EFAs and such).

The foods she tested that we pulled out of my diet helped dd tremendously. That's how I got down to my 7 food diet that I was on for 4 months.

I haven't seen her in a while though. She used to come to our house for consults and would go through our fridge and cupboards and tell me what dd would react to. She is super nice...

I


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Okay, I've got a problem....I ran out of my EFA pills about a month ago and keep forgetting to tell the secretary at my ND's office to order more for me. So while I have been off of them, my acne has been improving. I didn't make the connection until I looked up the pills to see if I could order them online from somewhere. The ND that gave me these pills is not my usual one, but she stepped in because my ND was on vacation. She knew the history of food allergies and such, so I assumed these pills were okay...

Well, THEY CONTAIN SOY AND WHEAT OILS! Aaahhhh!! So I've been taking those for about 2.5 months and didn't know. Grrr...but they definitely helped my eczema, just made my acne worse. Since I have been off of them, my eczema is getting out of control...all over my eyes (my eyelids are splitting open and cracking







), my hands, my boobs...nasty stuff!

So, here is what she recommended. Is there anything that anyone takes that is similar and allergen free?


----------



## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USAmma* 
In my dd's case it is due to faulty genetics-- but we are trying to heal her by taking away the foods she is reacting too, healing her, and then doing very slow and careful food trials. I guess dd's GI is on board with not just giving pills but actually finding out what the cause is.

As a lifetime allergy sufferer it's been very frustrating to go into a doctor's office in the past, tell them I'm having bad allergy symptoms,and then have them give me a pill instead of trying to figure out exactly what allergy it might be or how best to change my lifestyle to make things more comfortable. I was the one who did the research on removing carpets, covering the mattresses, etc. I did sublingual immonotherapy with an NP and maybe it's just coincidence, maybe not, but I'm off all asthma meds now except if I get a bad UPI.

Coming from a genetic standpoint-- not sure about celiac's and chrones, but there have been some genes located that have to do with sinintis, asthma, and my dd's condition eosinophilic esophagitis (and also eosinophils in the lower gut known as EG and EC, basically white blood cells that cause inflammation, diarrhea, etc). They are all closely related. You can do a search on the genes: eotaxin-1, eotaxin-2, and eotaxin-3. There are some repeated gene sequences that make the genes overreactive. The more repeats, the more reactive they are and the worse the person is affected. It's very facinating stuff. They hope to oneday make a protein blocker for eo-3 that will help with my dd's condition. With eo-2 I think Singulair is that blocker. If they do come up with a med that doesn't mean I'll just let her eat anything, KWIM?

I'm sorry if it sounded like I was rejecting genetics as a cause of allergies. I definitely believe that, in many cases, there is a strong genetic component to health problems. I just reject it as a cause in *my* family's case of FAs. Sorry I worded that so poorly! And I totally understand what you mean about not just popping a pill, but getting to the bottom of the problem. I think allopathic medicine has a place and I wouldn't reject a treatment that could seriously improve my quality of life or that of my children. But, like you, I'd be doing the work on my end, too (nutrition, vitamins, exercise, etc.).


----------



## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache* 
I'm sorry if it sounded like I was rejecting genetics as a cause of allergies. I definitely believe that, in many cases, there is a strong genetic component to health problems. I just reject it as a cause in *my* family's case of FAs. Sorry I worded that so poorly! And I totally understand what you mean about not just popping a pill, but getting to the bottom of the problem. I think allopathic medicine has a place and I wouldn't reject a treatment that could seriously improve my quality of life or that of my children. But, like you, I'd be doing the work on my end, too (nutrition, vitamins, exercise, etc.).

((HUGS)) I didn't take it that way at all, I knew what you were saying.







I was just researching this last night as part of a bio paper and was so excited to see the actual gene mutations. I had to share.







You have been so helpful in past posts that I have made. I hope that soon we can get Nitara to a state where we can try some of these alternative treatments.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USAmma* 
I just saw this link on another list I'm on. I know it's mainstream medicine but wanted to pass it on anyway. I would still try to take care of gut problems at their source to cure it in the long-run.

_In brief, the drug blocks the increase in the spaces between cells in the
small intestine ~ i.e., the drug tightens up a "leaky" gut. If I
understand the webpage correctly, this drug decreases inflammation (from
Food Allergies, Crohn's Disease, Celiac Disease, etc.) by blocking the
mast cells in the small intestine from recruiting white blood cells into
the gut. This drug looks really promising as a new treatment for EGE and
other small bowel inflammatory diseases._

http://www.freshpatents.com/Agonist-...pe=description

My biggest concern would be the same issue that the new non steriodal eczema drugs have: blocking the immune system cannot be done. The irritation will just come out in other ways... hence that using things like Elidel has more incidences of developing asthma (progressing further down the "Allergy March").

Too bad they are not studying natural sources of decreasing inflammation: vitamin C, pycegenol, quercitin, cod liver oil, and glutamine and gelatin.


----------



## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
My biggest concern would be the same issue that the new non steriodal eczema drugs have: blocking the immune system cannot be done. The irritation will just come out in other ways... hence that using things like Elidel has more incidences of developing asthma (progressing further down the "Allergy March").

Too bad they are not studying natural sources of decreasing inflammation: vitamin C, pycegenol, quercitin, cod liver oil, and glutamine and gelatin.

Yeah, we stayed away from elidel after the cancer reports. If they could make a protein-less version of those things you listed so she wouldn't be allergic (or is it the proteins that make them work?), I would love to give them to Nitara. It would be so good for her.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Okay, I've got a problem....I ran out of my EFA pills about a month ago and keep forgetting to tell the secretary at my ND's office to order more for me. So while I have been off of them, my acne has been improving. I didn't make the connection until I looked up the pills to see if I could order them online from somewhere. The ND that gave me these pills is not my usual one, but she stepped in because my ND was on vacation. She knew the history of food allergies and such, so I assumed these pills were okay...

Well, THEY CONTAIN SOY AND WHEAT OILS! Aaahhhh!! So I've been taking those for about 2.5 months and didn't know. Grrr...but they definitely helped my eczema, just made my acne worse. Since I have been off of them, my eczema is getting out of control...all over my eyes (my eyelids are splitting open and cracking







), my hands, my boobs...nasty stuff!

So, here is what she recommended. Is there anything that anyone takes that is similar and allergen free?

I think you could get the same benefits from cod liver oil and evening primrose oil (if tolerated), and possibly a vitamin E supplement--the dry or clear base ones are usually soy free although I don't know what else they contain.


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Too bad they are not studying natural sources of decreasing inflammation: vitamin C, pycegenol, quercitin, cod liver oil, and glutamine and gelatin.

they will likely never do serious studies of these because there isn't profit or patents for big pharma OR for big nutraceuticals, the likely funders of such studies. (just wait until the US patent office stops approving patents on genes ... )

NIH is putting out calls for proposals for studies with probiotics but i'd be willing to bet that these will not be as thorough as we all would like.

btw, NIH has moved more away from basic research into "translational" research (i.e., things that make money) because of pressure from the (Bush) administration and the various political appointees. many many basic research grant budgets have been slashed this year, even those that are only being renewed on a noncompeting cycle. basic biomedical research (funded by the government, not subject to politics and economics) is moving into the realm of dire straits these days because of "direction" from non-scientist administrators.


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rachel J.* 
If you really want to be annoyed check out quackwatch.com. This MD pretty much bashes everything that isn't straight forward allopathy. He ridiculed NAET b/c the creator said she was allergic to sugar and you "can't" be allergic to sugar, your body needs it







: If you can't be allergic then why eczema (symptoms) go away when it was avoided like it did in my sister's friend? He doesn't even consider that a person could react to the chemical alteration of processed sugar or the actual chemicals used in processing or something else entirely. He's sooo simplistic and arrogant and it ticks me off that lots of people searching for information about alternative medicine options will find his misleading information.

what i find harder to believe is that the U of Louisville faculty member actually used quackwatch as a citation and reliable source.


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Okay, I've got a problem....I ran out of my EFA pills about a month ago and keep forgetting to tell the secretary at my ND's office to order more for me. So while I have been off of them, my acne has been improving. I didn't make the connection until I looked up the pills to see if I could order them online from somewhere. The ND that gave me these pills is not my usual one, but she stepped in because my ND was on vacation. She knew the history of food allergies and such, so I assumed these pills were okay...

Well, THEY CONTAIN SOY AND WHEAT OILS! Aaahhhh!! So I've been taking those for about 2.5 months and didn't know. Grrr...but they definitely helped my eczema, just made my acne worse. Since I have been off of them, my eczema is getting out of control...all over my eyes (my eyelids are splitting open and cracking







), my hands, my boobs...nasty stuff!

So, here is what she recommended. Is there anything that anyone takes that is similar and allergen free?

i liked http://www.nutraceutical.com/search/..._index=6593008
along with evening primrose oil (i just bought a brand formulated for our HFS), but our ND swears by Nutraceutical and its sub-brands because they do pretty rigorous quality control and testing. They're big enough that they'll be around for a while and they take responsibility for their products. Plus, he isn't feeding the pockets of Dr. Weil when he recommends the Nutraceutical line (ND doesn't have a favorable opinion of Weil). You'd probably have to call to see if they contain wheat/soy.


----------



## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
I think you could get the same benefits from cod liver oil and evening primrose oil (if tolerated), and possibly a vitamin E supplement--the dry or clear base ones are usually soy free although I don't know what else they contain.

Thanks







I have been taking Nordic Naturals CLO (2 tbls. a day!) for 3 months now. I just purchased the high vitamin Blue Ice one yesterday. Any brand recs for Vit. E and primrose oil? Both are safe for bf'ing, right?

My ND has gotten all of my other blood tests back as well as the follow up stool sample results after my leaky gut test. I am so anxious, but she said she won't tell me any of them over the phone (as she has done before...) and she wants to see me in person. I hope I'm not dying







She said earlier that she wonders if I have an autoimmune disease. I hope I'm okay...


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Thanks







I have been taking Nordic Naturals CLO (2 tbls. a day!) for 3 months now. I just purchased the high vitamin Blue Ice one yesterday. Any brand recs for Vit. E and primrose oil? Both are safe for bf'ing, right?

My ND has gotten all of my other blood tests back as well as the follow up stool sample results after my leaky gut test. I am so anxious, but she said she won't tell me any of them over the phone (as she has done before...) and she wants to see me in person. I hope I'm not dying







She said earlier that she wonders if I have an autoimmune disease. I hope I'm okay...

As far as I know they're both fine for BF'ing. www.iherb.com has a bunch of clear base and dry vitamin E...they show the labels so you can check to find a hypoallergenic one. I bought liquid EPO from www.mountainroseherbs.com for DD. I've been taking Natural Factors EPO capsules myself...the label says it contains no dairy, wheat, yeast, or corn, but says nothing about soy, so it probably does contain some soy. You probably don't want to take 2 Tbsp. a day of high vitamin CLO for more than a month or so, so you may want to take a combinatin of high and low vitamin CLO if you want a lot of EFA's from CLO.


----------



## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

The CLO I am taking now isn't high vitamin, so I think it's okay to take as much as I do, but with the Blue Ice, I only plan on taking what they recommend.

I'm going to wait for my appt. with my ND on Tuesday before I buy anything else. I'm afraid that my lab results will give us some answers that will require a lot of supplements, etc. so I want to be sure to get the right stuff









Can I just say how much I LOVE all the resources that MDC has??!! Seriously...I would have NEVER figured out what my problems were if it weren't for everyone on MDC. I would have been suffering for a long time. It amazes me how much the mamas on here know


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USAmma* 
Yeah, we stayed away from elidel after the cancer reports. If they could make a protein-less version of those things you listed so she wouldn't be allergic (or is it the proteins that make them work?), I would love to give them to Nitara. It would be so good for her.


What is she allergic to and how was she tested?

Glutamine is an amino acid... it's not a whole protein, you can get it in supplement form (in addition to making bone broths which are doubly beneficial b/c of the gelatin, but of course that is a protein... she can't be allergic to all meats can she??)

I don't know about proteins and cod liver oil. I would test natural vitamin A and D pills from Carlson's made from CLO and then do flax for omega-3 as next best thing.

Vitamin C, quercitin and pycegenol are not proteins, with the last 2 being bioflavonoids.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Thanks







I have been taking Nordic Naturals CLO (2 tbls. a day!) for 3 months now. I just purchased the high vitamin Blue Ice one yesterday. Any brand recs for Vit. E and primrose oil? Both are safe for bf'ing, right?

My ND has gotten all of my other blood tests back as well as the follow up stool sample results after my leaky gut test. I am so anxious, but she said she won't tell me any of them over the phone (as she has done before...) and she wants to see me in person. I hope I'm not dying







She said earlier that she wonders if I have an autoimmune disease. I hope I'm okay...


I hope you are okay too!








Carlson's natural vitamin E is supposed to be very good but I forget contents of for allergy purposes. Best natural source is cold pressed olive oil and wheat germ oil (don't heat them) .


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
they will likely never do serious studies of these because there isn't profit or patents for big pharma OR for big nutraceuticals, the likely funders of such studies. (just wait until the US patent office stops approving patents on genes ... )

NIH is putting out calls for proposals for studies with probiotics but i'd be willing to bet that these will not be as thorough as we all would like.

btw, NIH has moved more away from basic research into "translational" research (i.e., things that make money) because of pressure from the (Bush) administration and the various political appointees. many many basic research grant budgets have been slashed this year, even those that are only being renewed on a noncompeting cycle. basic biomedical research (funded by the government, not subject to politics and economics) is moving into the realm of dire straits these days because of "direction" from non-scientist administrators.

Yeah, the whole study focus thing is such a scam.

Ooooo... can you link to call for study proposals with probiotics?? I'm trying to talk a WAPF Ped that I just met into a bifidobacteria study!

Stupid *&^%$# Shrub!


----------



## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Okay, this question is for my mother who just had minor surgery, but they just pumped her full of antibiotics. They gave her a whole bag through IV, then gave her 2 pills while there as well. She has a Rx that she starts tomorrow for more.

I told her to run out and get probiotics, and the only ones she could find were PB8 (these ones). There's a warning on the back and she is wondering if she can take them with what meds she is using currently (something for thryoid and vit. D). Also, when should she take these in congunction with the antibiotics, and how much? I've always seen them measured in CFU's, not MGs, so I am confused


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Jen (Pookietooth)

Did you see my posts re: Wilson's Temp Syndrome, I think you should check this out.

My temps are running low and erratic, I'm pretty positive I have it. Correlated with a bunch of symptoms that started all together in my 20's... it's very very interesting. I want all my family members to test their temps too!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *milkamama* 
jane,
i am so curious about your ds's rotation diet. after learning what my ds's triggers are, we decided to completely eliminate them in hopes of him outgrowing them. i would love to hear more about your thinking regarding the allergens in the rotation....really some days, i would just love to pick your brain about all of the healing the gut stuff! thank you!! you have helped me a great deal on our journey toward gut healing. many of your readings and advice has lead to healing...and sanity. i don't always get the chance to post much...my boys keep me very busy...but i read a lot.

peace









Trust me, all my brain is pretty much in these over 5,000 posts! often I forget what I know.














:

In our situation, a Rotation was the only way to go. He tested allergic to over 25 different foods.

There's no way he could have existed on the ones that came up okay: dairy, soy (which I'll never give him unless fermented condiments), beef, chicken, broccoli, pears, strawberries, tomatoes, arrowroot. That's it!!!







:

Doris Rapp wrote about Rotation Diets with respect to kids in "Is This Your Child?" and other books. The idea behind them is that exposure is limited and the gut can rest in days in between when the food is not given, as each allergic food produces a specific immune response. Something like that.

There are still some things that DS cannot have at all: pineapple, orange, MANGO....omg those are horrible. Rice is suspect but he is seeming to do okay on it now I've got it in an 8 day rotation as opposed to 4. Not sure about corn, watching that for now. Sometimes he has a little reaction and it's hard to pinpoint. Overall he's doing really really well, best ever so something is working! He's on enzymes too, the Houston trio. They absolutely make a HUGE difference. Which makes sense b/c if the food proteins are being broken down they are less likely to cause a reaction in the first place.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Okay, this question is for my mother who just had minor surgery, but they just pumped her full of antibiotics. They gave her a whole bag through IV, then gave her 2 pills while there as well. She has a Rx that she starts tomorrow for more.

I told her to run out and get probiotics, and the only ones she could find were PB8 (these ones). There's a warning on the back and she is wondering if she can take them with what meds she is using currently (something for thryoid and vit. D). Also, when should she take these in congunction with the antibiotics, and how much? I've always seen them measured in CFU's, not MGs, so I am confused










I didn't like PB8 b/c of the FOS in them made my gut go haywire (lots of gas, FOS is an indigestible sugar).

You should take antibx 2 hours apart from probiotics.... so antibx at 8AM, probiotics at 10AM, antibx at 12PM.

Personally I'd do tons of kefir. But I'm currently on a Natren kick too, see this thread for more:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=631727

I don't know any issues with probiotics and thyroid meds, wonder what it is?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rachel J.* 
2nd issue (I'm just full of questions today







), I just got my first 2 gallons of raw milk







(where's the dancing cow?) and I want to make some yogurt for ds1 (the constipated guy). For now I'll probably just use Dannon since that's readily available and throw in some of the L. Reuteri probiotics I have. Is the yogurt starter from customprobiotics worth getting?

Okay, that's enough questions for now. Maybe one day soon I'll have enough experience/knowledge to give input here instead of just take, take, take.









I'm not too thrilled with Custom Probiotics yogurt starter. It's what, $45 with shipping? And the directions are wrong, you need more than 1/4 tsp. It's only if you need dairy free IMO. Otherwise, use a yogurt you like or for starters: Yogourmet or Natren, I like them both. Natren is supposed to have some super strain of Lactobacillus Bulgaricus. Sometimes I add the Acidophilus powder to it too.

Kefir and Natural Calm also for constipation.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

And how old is he? Constipation has been correlated with low bifidus.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stellasmum* 
Hi- I am getting an education here! My sister has a 2 mo old that has had every problem in the book - problems sleeping, diaper rash, yeast, gastro-intestinal cramps, diarrhea, supposed acid reflux, spitting up, continuous crying, all starting with some post-birth breathing difficulty leading to a stay in the NICU - which turned out to be "nothing"!

So what do you knowledgeable moms think about acid reflux in infants? This baby's pediatricians seem to say it's Zantac, Prevacid, Maalox (yes! for an infant!!!) tummy drops until 3-6 months?!?! No one is mentioning probiotics...I insisted to my sister it could be her intestinal flora, since mom had abx for mastitis, then a few days of abx for a phantom UTI, which she had to abandon for allergic reaction!!

this poor family!

Any advice anyone?? Mom is trying an elimination diet - but there is so much going into baby and so many things being tried it is hard to know WHAT is helping or hurting!!!

See post #20 in Healing the Gut Tribe Cheat Sheet. It's definitely the antibiotics and gut flora. Start now before the babe becomes allergic to foods. She might be now. It might be worth it to do Elimination Diet of the Top 8 allergens first if she is BF'ing. But I'd start the bifidobacteria first and see if it makes a difference in a few weeks.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rachel J.* 
We had Noah's 6 (actually 7)month check up today. He was 10 weeks early so actually 4 1/2 months adjusted and today weighed 10lbs, 6oz. He's not even close to being on the charts but as long has he charts with the curve there's no concern. At this point he's not quite keeping up with the curve and his ped wants me to add some calories to make sure he's growing appropriately (brain growth concerns). I'm okay with that given Noah's less than ideal or normal situation. However his ped suggested rice cereal or oatmeal and given his reaction to wheat and oats in my diet I'm not very comfortable with giving a 4 1/2 mo grains. I'd rather wait on any solids for a very long time given his apparent gut issues with food sensitivity but realistically I may need to consider boosting his calorie intake in addition to breastmilk. I'd thought about fish/cod liver oil and/or EVOO. Any thoughts, suggestions or warnings? I may call the ped back and ask to come in for a weight check in a few weeks before starting real food. This was our first visit with this ped (he was my childhood ped) and I really want to stick with him. He's totally okay with my not vaxing which is a huge relief.

I would not at all supplement with oils, just EBF for now. Just make sure your diet is full of good fats (at least a tablespoon or more of CLO, and preferably high vitamin).

LOTS of butter, preferably raw to be easiest to digest.

*NO* trans fats, they go thru to your milk. *ALL* fats you eat directly pass thru to your milk.

Cut down on vegetable oils, only olive. No canola, soy, that horrible cottonseed, or safflower. They are omega 6's and block brain building omega 3's.

The more omega 3's in your diet the more in your milk. Get omega 3 eggs and eat 3 a day. Add extra yolks to smoothies. Try to find grass fed beef. Eat lots of wild salmon, wild shellfish. Not farm raised fish, farm raised does not have omega 3s b/c their diets are unnatural (grains). Get grass fed dairy, this again has the omega 3's because the cows are eating their natural diet.... grass fed butter and high fat beef is as healthy for you as fish!

**OMEGA 3s* and Cholesterol are the brain foods. NOT oatmeal and rice. Honestly the madness of modern medicine!*







: The brain is mostly fat and that is a key reason BM contains a lot of omega 3 and cholesterol (but only if in your diet).

First foods for him should not be grains. Look into Weston Price feeding recs:
http://www.westonaprice.org/children/index.html

Traditional Japanese breastfeeding mama diet is 12 eggs a day for excellent omega 3 content of milk and lots of vitamin A for healthy immune system and eyesight.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

I just have to say it again, to correlate brain growth with needing to introduce rice and oatmeal is seriously screwed up. I'm going to be ranting for days on that one!

How little doctors know about the actual makeup of the human body: real nutrition, like actual vitamins and minerals and proteins and fats build body cells, b/c HELLO, THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE MADE UP OF!!!

You can't get blood from a stone, and you can't get a healthy human from simple carbs with little nutritional value. That a young babe doesn't produce adequate enzymes to digest and fully assimilate yet either.

Grrrrr...









Yes I'm still PO'd I gave grains to DS as his first foods too. Full body eczema. Yeast diaper rash from hell. Don't do it!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
but i did find a really good website the other day:

http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/index.cfm

not at all glamorous but filled with useful information.

this doc, according to her writings, would never advocate a highly restrictive diet for long periods of time because one then starts reacting to everything.

She says making a healthy baby is 1% genes and 99% environmental. I think I agree.


----------



## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

RE: sugar, sugar is related to wheat, so many who have problems with wheat have problems with sugar and molasses.

The homeopathics seem to be helping the candida to the extent that I'm not really sticking that close to any anti-candida diet anymore and it's not a problem unless I eat a lot of sugar.


----------



## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
What is she allergic to and how was she tested?

Glutamine is an amino acid... it's not a whole protein, you can get it in supplement form (in addition to making bone broths which are doubly beneficial b/c of the gelatin, but of course that is a protein... she can't be allergic to all meats can she??)

I don't know about proteins and cod liver oil. I would test natural vitamin A and D pills from Carlson's made from CLO and then do flax for omega-3 as next best thing.

Vitamin C, quercitin and pycegenol are not proteins, with the last 2 being bioflavonoids.


That's good to know about glutamine. I should have guessed by the name.









She is actually allergic to amost everything right now. It's a condition called EE. Her esophagus is so swollen that she has a hard time swallowing. She vomits, has been on a feeding tube from 3 mos old but just dx a couple mos ago through biopsy. People should not have any eos cells in their esophagus. At 20 they consider that a dx. She had over 100 eos cells in one area and 50 in another. Very severe case. This is caused by a delayed IgG reaction to foods, and sometimes it is caused by airborne allergens as well.

We did both skin prick and skin patch tests and she is having reactions to about 80% of foods right now including very common ones like dairy, soy, corn, oats, rice, fish, and several fruits and veggies. We put her on an amino acid medical food and she was only allowed to have that from late Jan until Feb 20. Then the GI said try her on rice. She showed some symptoms so I took her off rice, patch tested her and sure enough she's allergic. We are trying her on white potato b/c that test came up - and she seems to do well on it. But yeah pretty much she's allergic or irritated by everything. In late April she will have another scope, hopefully it will be clear of eos cells, and we can trial her with three more foods. She's only allowed to have potatos and a couple of oils that are considered safe. I'm hoping if she's on this medical food and has a gentle and slow introduction to foods she's not reacting to so much, she will be able to tolerate more foods eventually. Most kids with EE end up being on the elemental formula for years because they can't eat enough safe foods to get full nutrition. It sucks. If we play by the rules and don't allow much to enter her diet until we are sure she can tolerate it, she can heal and perhaps her body won't react to those foods anymore, or as much.

We are vegetarian and she has not been tested for meats for that reason. If it turns out that we can get her off the tube in the distant future by allowing her to eat meats we will probably allow her to have them. But we will try all other avenues first.

I would love to give her more Vit C but I am confused about what kind to give her. I tried to give her some once but she vomited it immediately in a very violent way. I know it was not citris based but not sure what else it had in it. I need to find a pure form that does not have any fillers of corn or rice or other things she can't have. Her formula has extra vitamins for kids who can't absorb nutrients as well, so she is probably getting a balanced diet. It would be nice to give her some extra C though.

She has tested + for fish and seafood so no CLO ever. Same with peanut and corn oil. Even though they are supposed to be free of proteins I don't want to take a chance after we've come this far getting her feeling better. She has improved so much on the amino acid medical food.


----------



## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USAmma* 
That's good to know about glutamine. I should have guessed by the name.









She is actually allergic to amost everything right now. It's a condition called EE. Her esophagus is so swollen that she has a hard time swallowing. She vomits, has been on a feeding tube from 3 mos old but just dx a couple mos ago through biopsy. People should not have any eos cells in their esophagus. At 20 they consider that a dx. She had over 100 eos cells in one area and 50 in another. Very severe case. This is caused by a delayed IgG reaction to foods, and sometimes it is caused by airborne allergens as well.

We did both skin prick and skin patch tests and she is having reactions to about 80% of foods right now including very common ones like dairy, soy, corn, oats, rice, fish, and several fruits and veggies. We put her on an amino acid medical food and she was only allowed to have that from late Jan until Feb 20. Then the GI said try her on rice. She showed some symptoms so I took her off rice, patch tested her and sure enough she's allergic. We are trying her on white potato b/c that test came up - and she seems to do well on it. But yeah pretty much she's allergic or irritated by everything. In late April she will have another scope, hopefully it will be clear of eos cells, and we can trial her with three more foods. She's only allowed to have potatos and a couple of oils that are considered safe. I'm hoping if she's on this medical food and has a gentle and slow introduction to foods she's not reacting to so much, she will be able to tolerate more foods eventually. Most kids with EE end up being on the elemental formula for years because they can't eat enough safe foods to get full nutrition. It sucks. If we play by the rules and don't allow much to enter her diet until we are sure she can tolerate it, she can heal and perhaps her body won't react to those foods anymore, or as much.

We are vegetarian and she has not been tested for meats for that reason. If it turns out that we can get her off the tube in the distant future by allowing her to eat meats we will probably allow her to have them. But we will try all other avenues first.

I would love to give her more Vit C but I am confused about what kind to give her. I tried to give her some once but she vomited it immediately in a very violent way. I know it was not citris based but not sure what else it had in it. I need to find a pure form that does not have any fillers of corn or rice or other things she can't have. Her formula has extra vitamins for kids who can't absorb nutrients as well, so she is probably getting a balanced diet. It would be nice to give her some extra C though.

She has tested + for fish and seafood so no CLO ever. Same with peanut and corn oil. Even though they are supposed to be free of proteins I don't want to take a chance after we've come this far getting her feeling better. She has improved so much on the amino acid medical food.

Pretty much all vitamin C (ascorbic acid) is derived from corn. Twinlabs makes a Vit C that is derived from Sago Palm. We take the sago palm Vit C + quercetin (a natural antihistamine).

Also, have you tried Nitara on Evening Primrose Oil or Flaxseed oil?


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## PapayaVagina (May 11, 2002)

Hey mamas. I need a little help. I bought dd some of the Flora infant probiotics which says that it has "traces" of dairy. My local HFS says that this is as good as I'm going to get with trying to get dairy free. True?

I'm having problems w/dd's poops (she's 4 months old). After I started the probiotics (2 weeks ago) she had 1 day of "normal" poop 2 days after I started them, but then right back to nasty smelly peanut butter poo so I'm going to cut out all of the top allergens (again) x2 weeks and see if there is even the slightest change. If not, I'm doing TED. I'm trying harder to be sugar free. I'm doing kombucha and am getting ready to start a batch of water kefir (even though I hear that dairy kefir is ok I'm not going to risk it with her anymore), extra strength probiotics for myself, and CLO.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PapayaVagina* 
Hey mamas. I need a little help. I bought dd some of the Flora infant probiotics which says that it has "traces" of dairy. My local HFS says that this is as good as I'm going to get with trying to get dairy free. True?


No. Solaray BabyLife is dairy-free.


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## PapayaVagina (May 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
No. Solaray BabyLife is dairy-free.

Thank you! Do you recommend any online sellers?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PapayaVagina* 
Thank you! Do you recommend any online sellers?

I'm don't know of any, I'm sorry. You could try googling, though.


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## Cello (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 

before i got scared of GSE, i used GSE in combination with a modified candida diet (along with my glutamine stuff) to overcome it.

Can I ask why you got scared of GSE? I am curious.


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## Cello (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
dh uses something called "Adrenergize". Mucho expensive. He only takes 1 pill in the morning, sometimes 1 at lunch, but was instructed NOT to take one n the evening lest he wanted to stay up all night. He DOES notice a difference, albeit a slight one, in his stress level and his anxiety (he's a pretty stressed out dude!) when he's taking the stuff. There's no way I'd be able to get him to actually eat anything that would be useful for adrenal glands, so the capsule is the next best thing. Oh yeah, he cut out coffee/mochas a few years ago, and cut out caffeinated last summer, with chocolate being his major source of caffeine now.

found this comparison (http://www.drrind.com/scorecardmatrix.asp) when looking to see if i had adrenal fatigue. if anything, i fall in the mixed category.


I am assuming you are referring to food of some sort. Would you mind sharing some? I think my DH would benefit them from.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cello* 
Can I ask why you got scared of GSE? I am curious.

It's supposed to kill off good bacteria as well as bad bacteria and yeasts.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cello* 
I am assuming you are referring to food of some sort. Would you mind sharing some? I think my DH would benefit them from.

http://www.enzy.com/go/EnzymaticTher...partcode=04085


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cello* 
Can I ask why you got scared of GSE? I am curious.

I had read some reports that the manner in which the stuff was extracted caused contamination in and of itself - with microbiocidal compounds, having endocrine disrupting properties. I also read about how the stuff was extracted ... it is a very chemical laden process. The details are fuzzy but I decided I wasn't going to use GSE internally.

I also read a paper whereby a south African clinical study used grapefruit seeds (crunch and swallow) for treating a UTI or some such thing. Within 2 weeks since starting treatment (4-5 seeds every 8 hours for the 2 week period) the UTI was gone.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PapayaVagina* 
Thank you! Do you recommend any online sellers?

You coudl try this place for starters: http://vitanetonline.com/description...mins/BabyLife/

A friend had some good pricing at Luckyvitamin.com but I'm not sure if they carry Solaray products.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Jane, I have heard of Wilson's but some of the symptoms don't match. I will check with my naturopath about it.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

USAmma. Your dd has it rough. Have you looked into homeopathy? Also, as far as vitamin C, Nutribiotic makes one that is supposed to be hypoallergenic and free of corn residue. That's the one I get because they sell it at Whole Foods.


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## Cello (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
http://www.enzy.com/go/EnzymaticTher...partcode=04085

Bluets:

From your original post, it seemed you were suggesting non supplement items, but I could have just misunderstood I was hoping you could share some of those? Are they some of the same ingredient in the product you sent the link for, such as organ meats?


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Yeah, the whole study focus thing is such a scam.

Ooooo... can you link to call for study proposals with probiotics?? I'm trying to talk a WAPF Ped that I just met into a bifidobacteria study!

Stupid *&^%$# Shrub!

http://grants.nih.gov/grants/guide/p...PA-06-316.html

next deadline is June 16 I think, with a final one on Oct 16. this rfa/rfp ends Nov 2 2007. there's a R-01 version but both NCCAM and ODS pulled out so i'm not sure if the rfp still holds (they were both the only participating components).


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## SAmama (Oct 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 

LOTS of butter, preferably raw to be easiest to digest.

*NO* trans fats, they go thru to your milk. *ALL* fats you eat directly pass thru to your milk.

Cut down on vegetable oils, only olive. No canola, soy, that horrible cottonseed, or safflower. They are omega 6's and block brain building omega 3's.

The more omega 3's in your diet the more in your milk. Get omega 3 eggs and eat 3 a day. Add extra yolks to smoothies. Try to find grass fed beef. Eat lots of wild salmon, wild shellfish. Not farm raised fish, farm raised does not have omega 3s b/c their diets are unnatural (grains). Get grass fed dairy, this again has the omega 3's because the cows are eating their natural diet.... grass fed butter and high fat beef is as healthy for you as fish!


Jane, what about mutton/lamb/goat? We can only find farm raised fish and grain fed beef here. And I cannot do eggs or dairy right now. Oh and we can find pork, but I am completely grossed out by pork after seeing one too many times what pigs here eat. We did find hemp seed oil. Is that okay?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SAmama* 
Jane, what about mutton/lamb/goat? We can only find farm raised fish and grain fed beef here. And I cannot do eggs or dairy right now. Oh and we can find pork, but I am completely grossed out by pork after seeing one too many times what pigs here eat. We did find hemp seed oil. Is that okay?

Where are you at? If you're in the US there are lots of places where you can get grass-finished beef mail order for reasonable prices. Grass-fed lamb or goat would be fine...I've read that in the US even supermarket lamb tends to be grass-raised but I don't know how accurate that is. We bought 1/2 a grass-finished lamb once and it definitely tasted different than any other lamb I've had.

I think hemp seed oil is better than most vegetable oils (with the exception of extra virgin olive oil, coconut oil, and palm oil) and it does have some fatty acids but you'll still need an additional source of omega 3's and I don't believe you can heat hemp seed oil. Flax seed oil would be a better choice for omega 3's but you can't heat that, either. Are you already doing cod liver oil? Also, if you can find ghee from pastured cows, that might be an option. Purity Farms ghee is from pastured cows and is casein free.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

So...here's my dilemma...

I tested for dairy with an 8+ on the IgG tests last summer. I was a vegan and hadn't consumed dairy in a long time. I STILL haven't had any dairy, but would love to add kefir, yogurt, some cheeses back into my diet. I took an IgE test that included dairy 2 weeks ago and am getting the results back tomorrow.

If my IgG test for dairy was high, and my IgE test is not, should I still avoid consuming any dairy?

I know that there are certain proteins that are already broken down or whatever in yogurt and ghee, but if you test positive for dairy on an IgG test, should you still avoid them?

Since dairy is a big allergen, I'm scared as to how dd might react.

Also, I know that many of you have said that a baby's gut should only have B. Infantis in it (right?) or was it bifidus? Anyway, what about the fact that I have been giving dd *my* probiotics (Pharmax HLC) since she was 3 months old, per ND's orders.

Does having the wrong gut flora now (good, but wrong) mess her up in the long run?

SAmama-Can you find frozen salmon portions that are wild? We can around here, where the fresh salmon is farm raised.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

So, ummm this was on that site that bluets posted about the study:

_Safety:

Some microorganisms have a long history of use as probiotics without established risk to humans. Nevertheless, probiotics may theoretically be responsible for: (1) systemic infections; (2) deleterious metabolic activities; (3) excessive immune stimulation in susceptible individuals; or (4) gene transfer. Probiotic organisms may be inherently resistant to antibiotics, and the concern has been raised that probiotics might transfer drug-resistance genes to pathogenic microbes._

Is this something that we should be concerned about?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Following up on the "Allergies are (not) genetic" thoughts.

MT's threads on epigenetics
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...4&postcount=32


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cello* 
Bluets:

From your original post, it seemed you were suggesting non supplement items, but I could have just misunderstood I was hoping you could share some of those? Are they some of the same ingredient in the produce, such as organ meats?


More on adrenal extract stuff here, did I post this already?








http://www.westonaprice.org/archive/britton.html

Dr. Rons is a good source of raw organ capsules, I use his Liver
http://www.drrons.com/organs-glands.htm


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
So...here's my dilemma...

I tested for dairy with an 8+ on the IgG tests last summer. I was a vegan and hadn't consumed dairy in a long time. I STILL haven't had any dairy, but would love to add kefir, yogurt, some cheeses back into my diet. I took an IgE test that included dairy 2 weeks ago and am getting the results back tomorrow.

If my IgG test for dairy was high, and my IgE test is not, should I still avoid consuming any dairy?

I know that there are certain proteins that are already broken down or whatever in yogurt and ghee, but if you test positive for dairy on an IgG test, should you still avoid them?

Since dairy is a big allergen, I'm scared as to how dd might react.


Maybe you should ask the dairy question on the Allergies board. My understanding is also that a good elimination and trial with a suspected allergen is the gold standard. And that IgG reactions can respond well to a Rotation Diet of at least 4 days between consumption. And that raw and cultured milks (and butter and aged cheese) with more easily digestible proteins can also be the best choice for intolerant people.

Also look into Houston's Peptizyde digestive enzyme that specifically degrades casein (and gluten).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Also, I know that many of you have said that a baby's gut should only have B. Infantis in it (right?) or was it bifidus? Anyway, what about the fact that I have been giving dd *my* probiotics (Pharmax HLC) since she was 3 months old, per ND's orders.

Does having the wrong gut flora now (good, but wrong) mess her up in the long run?


Maybe. Which one are you using? I'm trying to find references for Natren saying that acidophilus is not recommended for babes before 6 months.... I want to know why exactly and haven't found it yet (and the books I really want are at medical libraries are not available interloan







).

It makes sense to me that you give the Bifidobacterium only based on studies I've quoted already, but I cannot find any showing negative effects of large amount of Lactobacillus supplementation. Studies on L. casei/LGG don't really count in my eyes as that is a transient bacteria (doesn't colonize).


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 

Also, I know that many of you have said that a baby's gut should only have B. Infantis in it (right?) or was it bifidus?

Sorry forgot to respond to this, yes the human strain, reportedly the "gentlest" strain, is Bifidobacterium Infantis and is dominent in and host specific to infants.

I went crazy lately and updated the Cheat Sheet re: infants and gut flora:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...6&postcount=20

Bifidobacteria is the genus of which there are many species such as B. Bifidum, B. Longum, B. Adolescentis and B. Infantis.

It used to be known as Lactobacillus Bifidus, but that is no longer correct.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Who has issues with amines?

Came across this interesting bit about Bifidobacterium and the Liver
http://www.natren.com/pages/toxicliver.html

Stupid SCD.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Who has issues with amines?

Came across this interesting bit about Bifidobacterium and the Liver
http://www.natren.com/pages/toxicliver.html

Stupid SCD.

Nolansmum and I have amine issues...she has salicylate issues also, and I haven't figured out if I do or not. Remember that PM I sent you about the sugar-induced magnesium deficiency leading to insomnia and leg cramps? Well...it wasn't sugar, it was the amines in the chocolate cookies! Magnesium helps with amine reactions.

Why do you say stupid SCD? Oh, because Elaine thought bifidobacteria were bad?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SAmama* 
Jane, what about mutton/lamb/goat? We can only find farm raised fish and grain fed beef here. And I cannot do eggs or dairy right now. Oh and we can find pork, but I am completely grossed out by pork after seeing one too many times what pigs here eat. We did find hemp seed oil. Is that okay?

Have you found a WAPF chapter leader in your area that could advice you on local grass fed meats?
Also check www.eatwild.com

Hemp seems to be a no-no...

Quote:

*Hemp: Not For Human Consumption*
A number of companies are now selling hemp oil, toasted and shelled hemp seeds and granola bars containing hemp seeds. This is not a good use for hemp. Hemp may be appropriate for domestic animals and birds, but it should not be used for human food. In China, where cultivation of hemp originated, hemp oil was used occasionally, but there are no references in the Chinese literature to the use of hemp seeds as food for human beings. (Simoons, Food in China, 1991)

Hemp oil has been promoted in recent years as a "heart healthy" oil that is rich in essential fatty acids and low in saturated fat. Hemp oil is indeed highly unsaturated, and this is exactly why it should be avoided. Hemp oil is over 75 percent polyunsaturated, containing about 55 percent omega-6 fatty acids and about 20% omega-3 fatty acids. It contains only about 10 percent saturated fatty acids and 10 percent monounsaturated fatty acids. It is, therefore, highly unstable and prone to oxidation; and the high content of linoleic acid makes it particularly unsuitable for human consumption. Diets containing an excess of polyunsaturated fatty acids, particularly omega-6 fatty acids, have been linked not only to heart disease but also to cancer and autoimmune disease.

An additional problem derives from the fact that hemp oil may contain traces of cannabinoids and these substances can then turn up in the urine of those who consume it. In one research project, seven adult volunteers purchased hemp oil from a health food store and ingested 15 milliliters each. Urine samples taken at 8, 24 and 48 hours after ingestion were positive for THC. (Journal of Analytical Toxicology October 1997 21(6):482-485.) If these volunteers had been obliged to give a urine sample to their employers, they would have failed their drug test.

Because hemp oil is highly unsaturated, it makes an excellent base for paints and varnishes. In fact, there is no need to consider hemp for human consumption except in small quantities for medicinal purposes. There are many good fats and oils that humans can use and there are many good industrial uses for all the by-products of the hemp plant. Let's not make the same mistake with hemp that we have made with soy, by promoting its inappropriate use as a human food.
http://www.westonaprice.org/farming/hempandkenaf.html


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Nolansmum and I have amine issues...she has salicylate issues also, and I haven't figured out if I do or not. Remember that PM I sent you about the sugar-induced magnesium deficiency leading to insomnia and leg cramps? Well...it wasn't sugar, it was the amines in the chocolate cookies! Magnesium helps with amine reactions.

Hmmm, very interesting, although sugar depletes yoru minerals too so probably a double whammy.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Why do you say stupid SCD? Oh, because Elaine thought bifidobacteria were bad?

Yes. It's *supposed* to be dominent in the colon of adults too. Oh well, dummy me for not researching it myself. And I've been debating for a long time whether or not I should post on Pecanbread why SCD didn't work for DS but I don't think I will.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Update on us:

We're on day 2 of a dairy trial using goat yogurt...so far so good. I really hope DD has outgrown her dairy intolerance as I would love to be able to eat dairy again, and I would love for her to have another nutritious food to eat. Plus I found a local source for raw milk! If all goes well with the goat yogurt after a couple of weeks I'm going to switch to cow yogurt.

DD's skin looks really good, almost clear. I don't know if it's because I'm eating a lot less amines, or because she stopped eating solids for a couple of weeks while she was sick/teething/had an ear infection. Oh, and she's been getting LiverLife for a couple of weeks now, so that might be helping as well (salicylates and all). Either way, I'm happy with it, and I'm only giving her low salicylate veggies for now to make sure the eczema doesn't come back. It did get a bit worse a few days ago after I ate squash three days in a row. I don't know what it is with her and squash, it definitely doesn't agree with her for some reason. I know it is high in salicylates but I (and she) eat plenty of things just as high or higher that she doesn't seem to react to. Now if she would only sleep!

I've cut way back on the amines in my diet. In fact I am no longer eating any fermented foods at all (well, besides the goat yogurt). I don't know if anyone remembers back in November when I had about 10 days of horrible stomach cramps and diarrhea after going full-tilt into water kefirs and drinking about 24 oz a day for a week or so...in hindsight, I think it was some sort of negative reaction to all the amines in the water kefirs and not die-off. The itching, fatigue, and brain fog that went away on the candida diet but came back after I started grains all went away when I stopped the fermented foods/drinks and stopped soaking grains.

I'm considering doing the Failsafe elimination diet but am struggling with the idea of not being able to soak grains (not that I'm doing it right now, but I'm not eating many grains at the moment). I really don't think I digest them well when they're not soaked, and I think I'd eat quite a few grains on Failsafe for lack of anything else to eat. Also, I'm having trouble figuring out what to use for fats since all the healthy vegetable oils are high in salicylates and not allowed. Basically I can use butter (if the dairy trial goes well), ghee, or beef tallow. I don't really like the taste of either butter or ghee all that much, and I haven't found a source for beef tallow. If DD would start sleeping better, I'd be happy enough with our progress to just figure out my amine tolerance and skip the rest of Failsafe so I don't have to figure out what on earth to eat. We'll see...


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Hmmm, very interesting, although sugar depletes yoru minerals too so probably a double whammy.

I'm sure the sugar didn't help with the magnesium levels, but I had the same reaction from some sugar-free dark baking chocolate so I know the symptoms were an amine reaction.


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## SAmama (Oct 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Where are you at? If you're in the US there are lots of places where you can get grass-finished beef mail order for reasonable prices. Grass-fed lamb or goat would be fine...I've read that in the US even supermarket lamb tends to be grass-raised but I don't know how accurate that is. We bought 1/2 a grass-finished lamb once and it definitely tasted different than any other lamb I've had.

I think hemp seed oil is better than most vegetable oils (with the exception of extra virgin olive oil, coconut oil, and palm oil) and it does have some fatty acids but you'll still need an additional source of omega 3's and I don't believe you can heat hemp seed oil. Flax seed oil would be a better choice for omega 3's but you can't heat that, either. Are you already doing cod liver oil? Also, if you can find ghee from pastured cows, that might be an option. Purity Farms ghee is from pastured cows and is casein free.

We are in China. So, no WAPF chapter leader, no flax oil (although we sometimes can find flax seeds), no ghee and no grass fed beef near. Although we will hopefully move to a more rural area this summer, with yak, which would be grass fed. And maybe we can figure out how to make ghee, seeing that we can get yak butter there as well.
I found some fish oil and cod liver oil here, but now I am freaked out to use them because of mercury levels. I love this country and don't want to bash things, but controlling polution and manufacturing standards are not strong points here. So now I need to get CLO from the US with a friend who is back home now. But that is more than a month away.
Oh and we can only find farm raised salmon.

I am just feeling really discouraged about this whole gut healing thing. We have a skinny baby who nurses all the time and doesn't gain weight. And I apparently have done EVERYTHING wrong during pregnancy and while nursing, and now that I know better I cannot have butter or yogurt or bloomin anything. And I cannot find water kefir grains here or even milk grains for that matter and everything I need I need to figure out a way to get it from the US. And I wish with all my heart I could just take her to a homeopath or ND or someone who will not give her hydrocortisone. And she keeps getting eczema and if she sleeps for longer than an hour and a half I think something is wrong because she never does that anymore. And now I am doing the stupid TED and cannot even eat rice because it really makes her eczema flare and all the oils I have to put on will basically wreck her brain because they are pure omega 6. And who knows if it will even work, because what if it is salicylates or amines or just being allergic to squash or sweet potato?!

Sorry. Bad day.







: I just needed to get this out there and out of my system.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SAmama* 
We are in China. So, no WAPF chapter leader, no flax oil (although we sometimes can find flax seeds), no ghee and no grass fed beef near. Although we will hopefully move to a more rural area this summer, with yak, which would be grass fed. And maybe we can figure out how to make ghee, seeing that we can get yak butter there as well.
I found some fish oil and cod liver oil here, but now I am freaked out to use them because of mercury levels. I love this country and don't want to bash things, but controlling polution and manufacturing standards are not strong points here. So now I need to get CLO from the US with a friend who is back home now. But that is more than a month away.
Oh and we can only find farm raised salmon.

I am just feeling really discouraged about this whole gut healing thing. We have a skinny baby who nurses all the time and doesn't gain weight. And I apparently have done EVERYTHING wrong during pregnancy and while nursing, and now that I know better I cannot have butter or yogurt or bloomin anything. And I cannot find water kefir grains here or even milk grains for that matter and everything I need I need to figure out a way to get it from the US. And I wish with all my heart I could just take her to a homeopath or ND or someone who will not give her hydrocortisone. And she keeps getting eczema and if she sleeps for longer than an hour and a half I think something is wrong because she never does that anymore. And now I am doing the stupid TED and cannot even eat rice because it really makes her eczema flare and all the oils I have to put on will basically wreck her brain because they are pure omega 6. And who knows if it will even work, because what if it is salicylates or amines or just being allergic to squash or sweet potato?!

Sorry. Bad day.







: I just needed to get this out there and out of my system.
























Can you find EVOO for your DD's skin? That works pretty well for my DD. Otherwise I've used grapeseed oil and sweet almond oil on her skin. I don't worry about the omega 6s in them. Or are you talking about the omega 6's in the oils you are eating? Once you start adding foods in, can you get coconut or palm oil? I've ordered both from www.mountainroseherbs.com and I believe they ship worldwide.

I think you could probably get accurate results with the TED if you substitute a different gluten-free grain that you don't commonly eat for the rice (such as buckwheat if you can get it).

If it's any consolation, I apparently did pretty much everything RIGHT (except give DD probiotics from birth) during and after pregnancy and still have a baby who's allergic to half the foods on the planet (or so it seems!). Try not to worry too much about salicylate or amine sensitivities--they're really not that common. Just plain food allergies/intolerance are a lot more common than food chemical sensitivites.


----------



## SAmama (Oct 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 






















Can you find EVOO for your DD's skin? That works pretty well for my DD. Otherwise I've used grapeseed oil and sweet almond oil on her skin. I don't worry about the omega 6s in them. Or are you talking about the omega 6's in the oils you are eating? Once you start adding foods in, can you get coconut or palm oil? I've ordered both from www.mountainroseherbs.com and I believe they ship worldwide.

I think you could probably get accurate results with the TED if you substitute a different gluten-free grain that you don't commonly eat for the rice (such as buckwheat if you can get it).

If it's any consolation, I apparently did pretty much everything RIGHT (except give DD probiotics from birth) during and after pregnancy and still have a baby who's allergic to half the foods on the planet (or so it seems!). Try not to worry too much about salicylate or amine sensitivities--they're really not that common. Just plain food allergies/intolerance are a lot more common than food chemical sensitivites.


Thank you for the encouragement. The oils I am worried about are the ones I eat. Today I had sheep fat on my squash. If I don't eat a ton of oil I get really, really hungry. EVOO works well for her skin as well. And the hemp also. We have not been able to find coconut or palm oil. How crazy is that. We are still looking and hoping that we will find some here. Having it shipped from the US will be quite expensive.
In the meantime I hope and pray that the TED will help and that we can at least get a bit of an idea what to avoid without avoiding everything.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SAmama* 
Thank you for the encouragement. The oils I am worried about are the ones I eat. Today I had sheep fat on my squash. If I don't eat a ton of oil I get really, really hungry. EVOO works well for her skin as well. And the hemp also. We have not been able to find coconut or palm oil. How crazy is that. We are still looking and hoping that we will find some here. Having it shipped from the US will be quite expensive.
In the meantime I hope and pray that the TED will help and that we can at least get a bit of an idea what to avoid without avoiding everything.

You can use EVOO on your food as much as possible--it doesn't contain many essential fatty acids at all. I know what you mean about needing to eat a ton of fat, I'm the same way. The prices at mountainroseherbs are really quite low ($18 for a gallon of palm oil and $28 for a gallon of coconut oil) so even if you factor in shipping to China it still might be worth doing. What fats are traditionally eaten there?


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Sorry forgot to respond to this, yes the human strain, reportedly the "gentlest" strain, is Bifidobacterium Infantis and is dominent in and host specific to infants.

I went crazy lately and updated the Cheat Sheet re: infants and gut flora:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...6&postcount=20

Bifidobacteria is the genus of which there are many species such as B. Bifidum, B. Longum, B. Adolescentis and B. Infantis.

It used to be known as Lactobacillus Bifidus, but that is no longer correct.

Thanks JaneS! That's EXACTLY what I needed


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 

Maybe. Which one are you using? I'm trying to find references for Natren saying that acidophilus is not recommended for babes before 6 months.... I want to know why exactly and haven't found it yet (and the books I really want are at medical libraries are not available interloan







).

It makes sense to me that you give the Bifidobacterium only based on studies I've quoted already, but I cannot find any showing negative effects of large amount of Lactobacillus supplementation. Studies on L. casei/LGG don't really count in my eyes as that is a transient bacteria (doesn't colonize).

This is the one I am using: the HLC high potency powder.

I give her a little on a spoon (she loves it and thinks she is "eating" food) twice a day. It does contain FOS and freeze dried apricot.

I am all out as of yesterday, so I am going to ask my ND about custom probiotic's CP-1 for me and perhaps this Natren brand that you recommended for dd.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SAmama* 
We are in China. So, no WAPF chapter leader, no flax oil (although we sometimes can find flax seeds), no ghee and no grass fed beef near. Although we will hopefully move to a more rural area this summer, with yak, which would be grass fed. And maybe we can figure out how to make ghee, seeing that we can get yak butter there as well.
I found some fish oil and cod liver oil here, but now I am freaked out to use them because of mercury levels. I love this country and don't want to bash things, but controlling polution and manufacturing standards are not strong points here. So now I need to get CLO from the US with a friend who is back home now. But that is more than a month away.
Oh and we can only find farm raised salmon.

I am just feeling really discouraged about this whole gut healing thing. We have a skinny baby who nurses all the time and doesn't gain weight. And I apparently have done EVERYTHING wrong during pregnancy and while nursing, and now that I know better I cannot have butter or yogurt or bloomin anything. And I cannot find water kefir grains here or even milk grains for that matter and everything I need I need to figure out a way to get it from the US. And I wish with all my heart I could just take her to a homeopath or ND or someone who will not give her hydrocortisone. And she keeps getting eczema and if she sleeps for longer than an hour and a half I think something is wrong because she never does that anymore. And now I am doing the stupid TED and cannot even eat rice because it really makes her eczema flare and all the oils I have to put on will basically wreck her brain because they are pure omega 6. And who knows if it will even work, because what if it is salicylates or amines or just being allergic to squash or sweet potato?!

Sorry. Bad day.







: I just needed to get this out there and out of my system.









Gosh, that must be so tough mama. I am so sorry that you are limited in your resources and I wish I could help. I know how it feels to be stuck. I feel like I've done everything wrong pre-pregnancy, during pregnancy and even postpartum so far. But I think our babes are so lucky to have us for mamas because we are trying everything we can to make them healthy. So many people would have given up by now.

hang in there







s


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Okay, I have much to post about (just got all my test results in today!!), but dd is still awake, so I will just say this:

The guy at Custom Probiotics totally confuses me. He was super helpful the second time I called but when I went to order, he told me to think about it and call back with my order later. Then the 3rd and 4th time I called to order he told me he was busy and to call back. I called today saying I would like to place an order, he told me he was at lunch so call back in an hour. So I call back in an hour and he's sounding all rushed and stuff, or like he's too busy to talk with me, so after I ordered he asked me for my address and was getting all upset because I had to keep spelling out everything (he couldn't hear me well he said) so he said, "I wish the next you needed to order, you would do so online."

Umm...I just gave him $165 and would have spent more to get dd some, but he was kinda rude so I didn't want to. What the heck is up with this?! Please tell me that this is not a hoax or anything. This is the real stuff right?

Also, I looked into the Natren and Solaray Baby stuff and they both contain dairy. Any other sources I can look for dd?

More later...


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## PapayaVagina (May 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 

Also, I looked into the Natren and Solaray Baby stuff and they both contain dairy. Any other sources I can look for dd?

More later...

What? Oh no! Please tell me this isn't true! Someone JUST told me that Solaray doesn't have dairy in it and I have a big order on the way here







:


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

it said it may contain traces of dairy and soy.

I just didn't want to take the chance that she'd react.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

oops...something went wrong with this post...let me start again...


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Okay, let me start by saying that I had many blood tests done, as well as a stool sample following up my leaky gut test. Here are the results:

-I have Wilson's Syndrome (which I think is kind of weird because many of you were recently talking about this...) my T3 is low and my FreeT4 (is that what it's called?) is high
For this I will be taking a T3 supplement from Wellness Pharmacy, but I need to verify with the company what their fillers are. I also will be supplementing with ashwaganda (an herb)

-My progesterone is low (.7, normal range is 3-20) My ND thinks this may be because of my thyroid issue and adrenal glands. Does anyone know how this would affect nursing?

-My stool results came back with these things:

1) My pancreatic elastase is very low
2) My n-butyrate is low
3) My pH is more alkaline

And, probably the most alarming...

I have NO, I repeat NO, lactobacillus species in my gut. Nothing. Not even after taking probiotics for 4 years. I have bifidobacterium, but no lactobacillus. Isn't that weird? Why is this? Is it the leaky gut?

So I ordered some from Custom Probiotics. I'm hoping that will help.

Previous blood tests before concluded that:
1) I have very low cholesterol
2) I'm borderline anemic
3) my ALT or ALP (I forget which one is the right one, or possibly they are both high) levels are high (this was a big question mark for my ND)
4) my liver enzymes are high (possibly from my thyroid???)

Does anyone know anything about any of my test results? I'm going to look back and search for anything that was posted about Wilson's Syndrome. What about the fact that I have no L. anythings...is that FROM the leaky gut, or is my leaky gut FROM not having any of these? How do I know when I am starting to build them up in my gut?

My ND wants me to try homemade raw goat's milk yogurt. Is raw okay? I'm assuming it's better, but what about the "bad" bacteria in the raw milk? (I am totally clueless about this, so that may be a silly question.)

I know there is a great thread on here about making yogurt, but it's intimidating being x # of pages long!! Anyone here tell me these things off the top of their head:
What's the best yogurt maker to buy?
What's the best starter for goat's milk yogurt?

I know I ask a lot of questions on here and I really appreciate all the help everyone has given me. I feel so lucky to have the support I do from this thread. Thank you all


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Okay, I have much to post about (just got all my test results in today!!), but dd is still awake, so I will just say this:

The guy at Custom Probiotics totally confuses me. He was super helpful the second time I called but when I went to order, he told me to think about it and call back with my order later. Then the 3rd and 4th time I called to order he told me he was busy and to call back. I called today saying I would like to place an order, he told me he was at lunch so call back in an hour. So I call back in an hour and he's sounding all rushed and stuff, or like he's too busy to talk with me, so after I ordered he asked me for my address and was getting all upset because I had to keep spelling out everything (he couldn't hear me well he said) so he said, "I wish the next you needed to order, you would do so online."

Umm...I just gave him $165 and would have spent more to get dd some, but he was kinda rude so I didn't want to. What the heck is up with this?! Please tell me that this is not a hoax or anything. This is the real stuff right?

Also, I looked into the Natren and Solaray Baby stuff and they both contain dairy. Any other sources I can look for dd?

More later...

I ordered a custom blend from custom probiotics and got it 2 days later, so (unless the probiotics aren't really probiotics or something!) they are legit. I did email him with the order, though, and he called me to confirm it and get credit card information. His customer service skills definitely need some improvement!

The Solaray BabyLife I bought for DD said it was dairy-free. I last bought it in October, though, so maybe they changed their formula.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 

Does anyone know anything about any of my test results? I'm going to look back and search for anything that was posted about Wilson's Syndrome. What about the fact that I have no L. anythings...is that FROM the leaky gut, or is my leaky gut FROM not having any of these? How do I know when I am starting to build them up in my gut?

My ND wants me to try homemade raw goat's milk yogurt. Is raw okay? I'm assuming it's better, but what about the "bad" bacteria in the raw milk? (I am totally clueless about this, so that may be a silly question.)

I know there is a great thread on here about making yogurt, but it's intimidating being x # of pages long!! Anyone here tell me these things off the top of their head:
What's the best yogurt maker to buy?
What's the best starter for goat's milk yogurt?

I know I ask a lot of questions on here and I really appreciate all the help everyone has given me. I feel so lucky to have the support I do from this thread. Thank you all









I don't know anything about any of your test results. I do know that one of Annikate's DD's had a CDSA done and also had no lactobacillus. I don't know what could cause that, though.

There's a Salton yogurt maker on Amazon.com that several of us have used. I used a quart canning jar instead of the plastic jar it comes with and leave the lid off to keep it at the right temperature. You can use other goat's milk (or water buffalo, or sheep, etc) yogurt as your starter, or buy a non-dairy starter, but all the non-dairy starters I've found are very expensive ($40+). You can also just use probiotics as a starter. You can sterilize the raw milk by boiling it to 180 degrees then cooling it enough to add the starter (to around 110 degrees), although obviously the milk wouldn't be raw anymore. Or you can just heat it to 110 degrees and add the starter. I did it that way and I know JaneS did it that way as well. I didn't seem to have problems with not sterilizing the milk first. Good quality raw milk is great--it should be from primarily grass-fed animals, and you want to make sure their milking practices are sanitary.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

More questions...they just don't stop popping into my head







I'm hoping someone here might have some insight on these...

1) Does the fact that I don't have any lactobacillus species, but plenty of bifidobacterium in my gut affect dd?

2) Babies don't just "have" leaky gut because their mothers do, right?

3) Dd still has mucus in her poop. Does this mean that she is still reacting to other foods I am eating (even though she has no other symptoms now), or is it something internally that's going on regardless of what I eat?

4) My stool sample came back without any signs of yeast. This is quite accurate to determine if there is a yeast problem, correct?

5) Our ND saw how much dd wants food and said we could try her on homemade mashed organic carrots. What are the consequences of giving her these if her gut isn't "ready"? I've read much info on it that I could find on MDC, but I want to know what the consequences are. I truly believe that she is quite hungry and that is why the past two weeks she has been very cranky. She never refuses the boob, even 10 minutes after she last nursed. She never did this before...even during growth spurts.

TIA


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
-I have Wilson's Syndrome (which I think is kind of weird because many of you were recently talking about this...) my T3 is low and my FreeT4 (is that what it's called?) is high
For this I will be taking a T3 supplement from Wellness Pharmacy, but I need to verify with the company what their fillers are. I also will be supplementing with ashwaganda (an herb)

WOW that is a freaky coincidence! Which supplement are you taking, can you link to it? Is it sustained release?
http://www.wilsonsthyroidsyndrome.com/Medical.htm

I'm looking at the herbal WTSMed supplements to try, with advice of our holistic dietician who is very knowledgeable about this syndrome. With DS, we will probably to straight to T3 as I'm not comfortable with the amount of herbs and possible side effects in a child.

Quote:

-My progesterone is low (.7, normal range is 3-20) My ND thinks this may be because of my thyroid issue and adrenal glands. Does anyone know how this would affect nursing?
Do you have low supply?

Quote:

-My stool results came back with these things:

1) My pancreatic elastase is very low
2) My n-butyrate is low
3) My pH is more alkaline

And, probably the most alarming...

I have NO, I repeat NO, lactobacillus species in my gut. Nothing. Not even after taking probiotics for 4 years. I have bifidobacterium, but no lactobacillus. Isn't that weird? Why is this? Is it the leaky gut?

So I ordered some from Custom Probiotics. I'm hoping that will help.

Previous blood tests before concluded that:
1) I have very low cholesterol
2) I'm borderline anemic
3) my ALT or ALP (I forget which one is the right one, or possibly they are both high) levels are high (this was a big question mark for my ND)
4) my liver enzymes are high (possibly from my thyroid???)

Does anyone know anything about any of my test results? I'm going to look back and search for anything that was posted about Wilson's Syndrome. What about the fact that I have no L. anythings...is that FROM the leaky gut, or is my leaky gut FROM not having any of these? How do I know when I am starting to build them up in my gut?

My ND wants me to try homemade raw goat's milk yogurt. Is raw okay? I'm assuming it's better, but what about the "bad" bacteria in the raw milk? (I am totally clueless about this, so that may be a silly question.)

I know there is a great thread on here about making yogurt, but it's intimidating being x # of pages long!! Anyone here tell me these things off the top of their head:
What's the best yogurt maker to buy?
What's the best starter for goat's milk yogurt?

I know I ask a lot of questions on here and I really appreciate all the help everyone has given me. I feel so lucky to have the support I do from this thread. Thank you all








We've been eating raw yogurt for a long time, DS for almost a year and me longer. Re: "bad" bacteria in the milk: there shouldn't be any. It should be grass fed and all utensils very clean. Raw milk contains protective factors that kill off bacteria introduced into it. More info on this at Organic Pastures in CA raw milk website.

I just use my oven, you can search on my name for oven method and HTG past threads.

You want a dairy free starter? If not I like both Yogourmet and Natren (sometimes I spike the latter with acidophilus or bifido, the former has acidophilus but I am on a Natren kick lately b/c of their super strains). The L. Casei in Progurt is not colonizing (benefits could end when you stop it).

The lack of lactobacillus could be one of the roots of your issues. Antibiotics the cause. Or WTS... I don't know this for sure but I wonder how a low body temp effects growth of our good bacteria?

What are your daily temps?

I'm sorry you have WTS but I'm glad that I now have a buddy to go thru this with!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
More questions...they just don't stop popping into my head







I'm hoping someone here might have some insight on these...

1) Does the fact that I don't have any lactobacillus species, but plenty of bifidobacterium in my gut affect dd?

2) Babies don't just "have" leaky gut because their mothers do, right?

3) Dd still has mucus in her poop. Does this mean that she is still reacting to other foods I am eating (even though she has no other symptoms now), or is it something internally that's going on regardless of what I eat?

4) My stool sample came back without any signs of yeast. This is quite accurate to determine if there is a yeast problem, correct?

5) Our ND saw how much dd wants food and said we could try her on homemade mashed organic carrots. What are the consequences of giving her these if her gut isn't "ready"? I've read much info on it that I could find on MDC, but I want to know what the consequences are. I truly believe that she is quite hungry and that is why the past two weeks she has been very cranky. She never refuses the boob, even 10 minutes after she last nursed. She never did this before...even during growth spurts.

TIA









These are difficult to answer with any suriety. They are good questions though!

Did you read the post "Infants and Gut Flora" in Cheat Sheet? Babes get their flora from their mamas. Also what they eat, whether they take antibx (or mama does), and vaccines. The quality of mama's milk makes a big difference and that would depend a great deal on her digestion and nutrition.

I've heard many stories that stool tests are not necessarily the best for dx yeast. Did you have pathogenic bacteria tested?

DD's Mucus: very hard to say. Could be yeast. Could be food reaction. How much? How often? Firefaery might know more on this.

How old is she? When starting on foods rotate them carefully every 3-4 days taking notes. Carrots with high beta carotene can overwhelm immature livers, not really good to overdose on the beta c. foods. I'm not so sure that WAPF is wrong about fats and protein foods being better as first foods (see Feeding Babies www.westonaprice.org.

The consequences...? Well, my DS who is allergic to 25 foods?? Eczema. Asthma, which has been shown to be just the next step on in the "Allergy March". Hard to say what will happen with each individual. Just go really slow. At least you know what to watch for now...a lot more than I did!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Whoops, you probably want dairy free. What about just using goat yogurt, can you get that where you are? Otherwise, Progurt is only dairy free starter that I know. I can send you some for several batches if you want to PM me ... its ridiculously expensive to not be sure you can use it. (Although it's getting warm outside, not sure how it will survive thru mail, but we can just have you do a double amount. You'll know by taste if it grows.)


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Also, I looked into the Natren and Solaray Baby stuff and they both contain dairy. Any other sources I can look for dd?

You can use Natren Dairy Free Bifido Factor. http://store.natren.com/Merchant2/me...Category_Code=
(And Mega dophilus and Digesta Lac are also available in dairy free chickpea base too.) I don't know for sure if the original cultures came on dairy, you should check with them... but I guess no b/c they use different strains for dairy and dairy free products.

...is that the issue with Solaray BabyLife although the ingredients are dairy free? I guess we have to exactly know HOW dairy free it is?? (Oy.)


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
Jane, I have heard of Wilson's but some of the symptoms don't match. I will check with my naturopath about it.

I don't have all symptoms either and that's pretty normal, the body temps are the key.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

mum2be--what about giving your DD homemade jello as a first food? That's the least-likely-to-be-harmful thing I can think of. You could either just give her bone broth that's jelled, or use gelatin in water with a bit of fruit juice for flavoring. The gelatin would be good for her gut as well.

I waited until 8-9 months to start my DD on solids and apparently it was still too early as she now reacts to every one of the first foods I gave her consistently (squash, avocado, coconut oil/coconut milk, and eggs).


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
WOW that is a freaky coincidence! Which supplement are you taking, can you link to it? Is it sustained release?
http://www.wilsonsthyroidsyndrome.com/Medical.htm

I'm looking at the herbal WTSMed supplements to try, with advice of our holistic dietician who is very knowledgeable about this syndrome. With DS, we will probably to straight to T3 as I'm not comfortable with the amount of herbs and possible side effects in a child.

Do you have low supply?

We've been eating raw yogurt for a long time, DS for almost a year and me longer. Re: "bad" bacteria in the milk: there shouldn't be any. It should be grass fed and all utensils very clean. Raw milk contains protective factors that kill off bacteria introduced into it. More info on this at Organic Pastures in CA raw milk website.

I just use my oven, you can search on my name for oven method and HTG past threads.

You want a dairy free starter? If not I like both Yogourmet and Natren (sometimes I spike the latter with acidophilus or bifido, the former has acidophilus but I am on a Natren kick lately b/c of their super strains). The L. Casei in Progurt is not colonizing (benefits could end when you stop it).

The lack of lactobacillus could be one of the roots of your issues. Antibiotics the cause. Or WTS... I don't know this for sure but I wonder how a low body temp effects growth of our good bacteria?

What are your daily temps?

I'm sorry you have WTS but I'm glad that I now have a buddy to go thru this with!

















For the WTS, she hasn't given me an Rx for it yet because I have to call and see what they use for fillers. It is the sustained release T3.
She gave me Ashwagandha powder and capsules to support my adrenal glands. I am taking 3 capsules of 500mg each a day. And two teaspoons of the powder, instead of the pills if I would like. (The powder is better, but more of a pain to take and tastes icky!)

I looked at that website and it's scary how exact everything has to be! With a baby to take care of, that's hard







: I'm going to look through the online dr.'s manual to get more info. Thanks for the link









I've been suspecting a low supply (not severe) for a while but it was attributed to my very limited diet and caloric intake. Dd has been nursing like crazy, and will never refuse the boob if I offer, which is unlike her. I figured she is constantly hungry and is probably ready for some solids. I wonder how else low progesterone effects your body...off to look up more in a bit









We live out in the country and have so many neighbors with goats, but I have no idea how sanitary their milking process is...I was hoping to get it from one of them, but who knows...I could always ask at the co-op! I will look into those yogurt starters...thanks!!


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

I have lots more to say later (sorry to hog the read...I swear I won't do this for much longer







) but I just wanted to add that I got dd Nature's Way Kids primadopholis (i totally didn't spell that right, huh?). It says for kids under two 1/2 teaspoon between meals. (Ha...that would be funny...she nurses every 10 minutes!)

It said it might contain traces of dairy, but I figured what the heck...I would just go for it.

How do I get this into her? Before I let her have some on a spoon, but it was flavored with apricot, so she liked it, plus the FOS made is sweet.

Can I put a little in just a bit of water and put it in a bottle? Or is that a no-no? She won't take this off a spoon like the other stuff.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 

I've been suspecting a low supply (not severe) for a while but it was attributed to my very limited diet and caloric intake. Dd has been nursing like crazy, and will never refuse the boob if I offer, which is unlike her. I figured she is constantly hungry and is probably ready for some solids. I wonder how else low progesterone effects your body...off to look up more in a bit










Have you tried red raspberry leaf infusions to help your supply? I started drinking them a couple of weeks ago to try to encourage my PP AF to come back so we can TTC again, and WOW! I think my milk supply has about doubled, and I've never had any supply issues.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
These are difficult to answer with any suriety. They are good questions though!

Did you read the post "Infants and Gut Flora" in Cheat Sheet? Babes get their flora from their mamas. Also what they eat, whether they take antibx (or mama does), and vaccines. The quality of mama's milk makes a big difference and that would depend a great deal on her digestion and nutrition.

I've heard many stories that stool tests are not necessarily the best for dx yeast. Did you have pathogenic bacteria tested?

DD's Mucus: very hard to say. Could be yeast. Could be food reaction. How much? How often? Firefaery might know more on this.

How old is she? When starting on foods rotate them carefully every 3-4 days taking notes. Carrots with high beta carotene can overwhelm immature livers, not really good to overdose on the beta c. foods. I'm not so sure that WAPF is wrong about fats and protein foods being better as first foods (see Feeding Babies www.westonaprice.org.

The consequences...? Well, my DS who is allergic to 25 foods?? Eczema. Asthma, which has been shown to be just the next step on in the "Allergy March". Hard to say what will happen with each individual. Just go really slow. At least you know what to watch for now...a lot more than I did!


Yes, I had pathogenic bacteria tested. It came up negative. Does this mean I probably don't have Candida? (I hope so!)

I did read the infant and gut flora cheat sheet. I guess I'm wondering because everyone is saying that a baby's gut is made up of bifidobacterium, right? Well, I have normal levels of that, but the lactobacillus I don't have any. So if their guts aren't made up of lactobacillus (I know they need some of it though) then is dd okay gut flora wise? I have been supplementing her with Pharmax Neonate for months 2-4, and Pharmax high potency powder months 4-6. Now I just got the Nature's Way kids primadophilos which has more CFUs than the Neonate one.

The poop has been mucusy since birth pretty much. Well, probably more like week 6 it started. Then she went 2-3 months of very runny, watery blowouts once a day. Then in January when I started adding more and more things into my diet, the mucus started again. I'm guessing they are related though.

She's never had antibiotics, nor have I since pregnancy or birth. She is not vaxed either. The only other supplements she has taken are homeopathic or an herbal supplement for gas from the ND.

She REALLY wants food and it breaks my heart to deny it. I've never seen a baby want it this badly. I picked up some jarred organic squash at the store after reading your thoughts on carrots. I was never going to give my child mushy food, and thought it best to do finger foods, but she just wants it so badly and has no teeth yet. I don't want her choking on a piece of avocado or anything...

I'm worried about her reacting and problems starting, but I guess I wonder if she just reacts to the foods MY body sees as allergens that I eat. They don't get broken down and get into my milk and she has issues with that. How do I know if she has bad gut flora (I know it's not ideal, but who knows _how_ bad it is) or if she is just reacting to the way the food proteins are getting into my milk? KWIM? Have I screwed up her digestive system by nursing her with my leaky gut?







:

She is healthy, no skin issues, is growing well, etc. Other than the mucus and mucusy spit-ups, she's perfectly fine.

It's such a hard decision and I know everyone is pretty much telling me to hold off, but it's hard when your babe is miserable because you won't give them anything...

Oh, and I thought her poor sleeping was due to discomfort and food reactions...well, she went from sleeping 45 minute intervals, nursing all night long, and being awake from 2-5 a.m. to sleeping in her own crib, waking twice a night, and having no gas or discomfort. Much of it was sleep related because she was so sleep deprived. We saw a new ped. for a consult (AP friendly) and she had us try this new sleep plan, and it's worked out pretty well.
So now I don't know what's what anymore...


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Have you tried red raspberry leaf infusions to help your supply? I started drinking them a couple of weeks ago to try to encourage my PP AF to come back so we can TTC again, and WOW! I think my milk supply has about doubled, and I've never had any supply issues.

I've had the Mother's Milk tea and everytime I had a cup, I woke up the next morning engorged!







Now when I drink it nothing much happens. I'd probably have to up my consumption quite a bit. Perhaps I should try that! Thanks


----------



## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
mum2be--what about giving your DD homemade jello as a first food? That's the least-likely-to-be-harmful thing I can think of. You could either just give her bone broth that's jelled, or use gelatin in water with a bit of fruit juice for flavoring. The gelatin would be good for her gut as well.

I waited until 8-9 months to start my DD on solids and apparently it was still too early as she now reacts to every one of the first foods I gave her consistently (squash, avocado, coconut oil/coconut milk, and eggs).

Really? I have no idea how to make it. Do you have a recipe?

Does your dd have a leaky gut? I'm wondering if both your dd and JaneS's ds reacted the way they did to solids because they had a leaky gut or candida. I could be very wrong, who knows...It's hard not knowing if dd has a leaky gut or not and I don't think she has candida, or it would be quite obvious, right?

Gosh, I'm just full of questions, aren't I?







:


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 

She REALLY wants food and it breaks my heart to deny it. I've never seen a baby want it this badly. I picked up some jarred organic squash at the store after reading your thoughts on carrots. I was never going to give my child mushy food, and thought it best to do finger foods, but she just wants it so badly and has no teeth yet. I don't want her choking on a piece of avocado or anything...

I'm worried about her reacting and problems starting, but I guess I wonder if she just reacts to the foods MY body sees as allergens that I eat. They don't get broken down and get into my milk and she has issues with that. How do I know if she has bad gut flora (I know it's not ideal, but who knows _how_ bad it is) or if she is just reacting to the way the food proteins are getting into my milk? KWIM? Have I screwed up her digestive system by nursing her with my leaky gut?







:

She is healthy, no skin issues, is growing well, etc. Other than the mucus and mucusy spit-ups, she's perfectly fine.

It's such a hard decision and I know everyone is pretty much telling me to hold off, but it's hard when your babe is miserable because you won't give them anything...

Oh, and I thought her poor sleeping was due to discomfort and food reactions...well, she went from sleeping 45 minute intervals, nursing all night long, and being awake from 2-5 a.m. to sleeping in her own crib, waking twice a night, and having no gas or discomfort. Much of it was sleep related because she was so sleep deprived. We saw a new ped. for a consult (AP friendly) and she had us try this new sleep plan, and it's worked out pretty well.
So now I don't know what's what anymore...

Did you see my post earlier today about trying homemade jello for a first food?

This is JMO, but...since a baby inherits the mother's gut flora during the trip down the birth canal, it seems likely that if the mother's gut flora is less-than-ideal, baby's will be, too. Once she starts eating a few solids you'll have a pretty good idea about the condition of her gut as she'll either react (or not) to foods that she eats one way or another.

Would you mind sharing your sleep plan with me? I'm at my wits' end trying to figure out how to get my DD to sleep better (and go to sleep in the first place).


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Really? I have no idea how to make it. Do you have a recipe?

Does your dd have a leaky gut? I'm wondering if both your dd and JaneS's ds reacted the way they did to solids because they had a leaky gut or candida. I could be very wrong, who knows...It's hard not knowing if dd has a leaky gut or not and I don't think she has candida, or it would be quite obvious, right?

Gosh, I'm just full of questions, aren't I?







:

I think we're cross-posting here! I just did a search for "homemade jello" and substituted gelatin from the HFS for the Knox gelatin the recipe called for. It worked fine except DD wouldn't eat it









I'm sure DD does have a leaky gut...whether she had one when she started solids, I don't know. And I still don't know if she has candida or not. I thought she did but she's never had any symptoms that are definite indicators of candida (like thrush), and the symptoms she does have could be due to a bunch of other things, so who knows.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

I just responded to your post about jello









The sleep plan is hard on us mamas because it involves our little ones crying in arms. But the ped. was right about dd needing to learn how to fall asleep on her own. She was waking every 45 minutes because that was her sleep cycle and she didn't know how to fall back asleep. It got to the point where she was sleeping 7 hours a day. I was sleeping around 3-4, so we HAD to try something. Go here to read my blog post about it and if you have any questions, PM me!

Oh and fyi...she is doing fine with one night nursing now and does not appear to be hungry when I try to feed her the other times she might wake up.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Has anyone here used kombucha?? I just bought some at the HFS and went to look up stuff about it to see how much I should drink. I found this which is a bit scary. But I know that store bought it probably safe.

If you drink it, how much do you drink a day? I've heard 2-4 oz.

Is it as beneficial as yogurt?


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

wow... i skip a day and miss a lot. found this link (http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-Kgb7f...sjmULpwU-?cq=1) through other means and thought i'd share. more wow.


----------



## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Jane, when are you supposed to temp and how often? My temps are all over the place.


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Yes, I had pathogenic bacteria tested. It came up negative. Does this mean I probably don't have Candida? (I hope so!)

I did read the infant and gut flora cheat sheet. I guess I'm wondering because everyone is saying that a baby's gut is made up of bifidobacterium, right? Well, I have normal levels of that, but the lactobacillus I don't have any. So if their guts aren't made up of lactobacillus (I know they need some of it though) then is dd okay gut flora wise? I have been supplementing her with Pharmax Neonate for months 2-4, and Pharmax high potency powder months 4-6. Now I just got the Nature's Way kids primadophilos which has more CFUs than the Neonate one.

The poop has been mucusy since birth pretty much. Well, probably more like week 6 it started. Then she went 2-3 months of very runny, watery blowouts once a day. Then in January when I started adding more and more things into my diet, the mucus started again. I'm guessing they are related though.

She's never had antibiotics, nor have I since pregnancy or birth. She is not vaxed either. The only other supplements she has taken are homeopathic or an herbal supplement for gas from the ND.

She REALLY wants food and it breaks my heart to deny it. I've never seen a baby want it this badly. I picked up some jarred organic squash at the store after reading your thoughts on carrots. I was never going to give my child mushy food, and thought it best to do finger foods, but she just wants it so badly and has no teeth yet. I don't want her choking on a piece of avocado or anything...

I'm worried about her reacting and problems starting, but I guess I wonder if she just reacts to the foods MY body sees as allergens that I eat. They don't get broken down and get into my milk and she has issues with that. How do I know if she has bad gut flora (I know it's not ideal, but who knows _how_ bad it is) or if she is just reacting to the way the food proteins are getting into my milk? KWIM? Have I screwed up her digestive system by nursing her with my leaky gut?







:

She is healthy, no skin issues, is growing well, etc. Other than the mucus and mucusy spit-ups, she's perfectly fine.

It's such a hard decision and I know everyone is pretty much telling me to hold off, but it's hard when your babe is miserable because you won't give them anything...

Oh, and I thought her poor sleeping was due to discomfort and food reactions...well, she went from sleeping 45 minute intervals, nursing all night long, and being awake from 2-5 a.m. to sleeping in her own crib, waking twice a night, and having no gas or discomfort. Much of it was sleep related because she was so sleep deprived. We saw a new ped. for a consult (AP friendly) and she had us try this new sleep plan, and it's worked out pretty well.
So now I don't know what's what anymore...

Mum2be - My dd is older than yours (9 mos), but I started doing some solids at about 7 mos because she was the same way - screaming ALL the time while we ate because she was so mad she didn't have anything. So, I started her on foods that I could cook and mash up with a fork and then she could still eat it herself, but it was mushy. Does that make since? Honestly, I think things are a little easier now because I can tell how she reacts directly to foods. Others might disagree, but I'd go with some solids and see what happens. I think the biggest thing is to only introduce a new food about every week to 10 days. for my dd, she reacts after she has digested it, so I have to wait til she poops and then some to really know how she did with a food. Interestlingly, she reacts directly to some things that she doesn't react to if I eat and she doesn't react directly to some things that do seem to bother her when I eat them (so I'm with you that I sometimes wonder if she is reacting to my reaction/histamine, etc). Also, in the beginning, I only gave her food once and then waited for her to poop. Now I give it to her every day, but I'm really careful that I only use safe foods (menaing tested at least 5 times with no reaction) and then one new food every week or so. I also am really careful to rotate so we dont' create problems with repeated exposure. to decide what order to introduce things, I looked at the Jorgenson allergenic scale and the amine/salyicilate content. Here are the things I tried with her - green peas, green beans, butternut squash, avocado (bad reaction), beets (prepare for a mess and purple poo!), choko, ripe banana (this was actually to test for amines - I don't use this regularly), carrots, beef, chicken liver (I mix the last two with a veggie, but she was borderline low on iron, so I added meat in).

By self-feeding, she doesn't get nearly the amount as she would if I were shoveling it in with a spoon, but she is happy, and we get to eat for a few minutes in peace!

FWIW, DD's poops have gotten better since we started solids. There are still green slimy ones every now and then, but not as much as she used to have, and every now and then we get a really perfect looking one (and then we do a celebration poopy dance!). It may not all be the solids, cause I'm doing more with probiotics for both of us, but it hasn't gotten worse, which I was worried about.

Good luck!


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
Jane, when are you supposed to temp and how often? My temps are all over the place.

If you're referring to WTS, you temp 3 hours after you wake up, 3 times a day, every three hours. So if you woke up at 9, temp at 12, 3 and 6 p.m. Then average the three temps together to get one.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

LovinLiviLou-Thanks for that info! I think that's what we will do. A very careful trial of each food, with rotation to avoid any build up of interolances! I type this as dd is eating a piece of paper...









We are going to try a little bit of homemade carrots today or tomorrow, and our next will probably be some squash next week.

You know, she may hate food and just like the idea of being able to eat! Who nows...


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Okay, here I go with more questions









I tested negative for yeast in my stools, but when I did the "spit in a cup of water first thing in the morning" test, I had a HUGE cloud float to the bottom. It was nasty! Dh was my control and his turned out fine. So which test should I believe?

I posted this on the last page, but it was the very last post of the page so it may not get seen...

I got dd Nature's Way primadophilus for kids. I need to give her 1/2 teaspoon like 2-3 times a day. How can I get it into her? Can I mix it in a little bit of water and put it in a bottle? She's never taken BM from a bottle, but may not mind water. Is this a good probiotic for her? It's the only one our HFS had, and I just wanted to get something fast. I am getting the Custom Probiotics probably tomorrow, but wanted her on one for kids/babies.

Here's what's in it:
Proprietary Probiotic Blend55.00 mg

providing 3 Billion CFU

Lactobacillus rhamnosus

Lactobacillus casei

Lactobacillus acidophilus

Bifidobacterium infantis

Bifidobacterium bifidum

Bifidobacterium breve

Bifidobacterium longum

NutraFlora® scFOS (short-chain fructooligosaccharides)2.00 g

Any ideas? Is this okay to give her or is there a better one?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Okay, here I go with more questions









I tested negative for yeast in my stools, but when I did the "spit in a cup of water first thing in the morning" test, I had a HUGE cloud float to the bottom. It was nasty! Dh was my control and his turned out fine. So which test should I believe?

I posted this on the last page, but it was the very last post of the page so it may not get seen...

I got dd Nature's Way primadophilus for kids. I need to give her 1/2 teaspoon like 2-3 times a day. How can I get it into her? Can I mix it in a little bit of water and put it in a bottle? She's never taken BM from a bottle, but may not mind water. Is this a good probiotic for her? It's the only one our HFS had, and I just wanted to get something fast. I am getting the Custom Probiotics probably tomorrow, but wanted her on one for kids/babies.

Here's what's in it:
Proprietary Probiotic Blend55.00 mg

providing 3 Billion CFU

Lactobacillus rhamnosus

Lactobacillus casei

Lactobacillus acidophilus

Bifidobacterium infantis

Bifidobacterium bifidum

Bifidobacterium breve

Bifidobacterium longum

NutraFlora® scFOS (short-chain fructooligosaccharides)2.00 g

Any ideas? Is this okay to give her or is there a better one?

Have you taken a candida questionnaire? There's some online...if you search for Dr. Crook and candida you should find one. I'm not sure how accurate the spit test really is, but I have heard that the questionnaire is pretty accurate. I don't know how accurate a stool test for candida is, either. I've heard that the most accurate candida test is a blood test.

I personally stay away from FOS, but some people really like them. IMO you'd be better off just giving her the custom probiotics because they don't contain any fillers or additives. You could give her a separate b. infantis probiotic as well if you like. She probably old enough to drink from a straw or a water bottle with a sport top, or you can just get your finger wet and put your finger into the probiotic powder (after you measure it out onto a spoon) and let her suck it off your finger (or scrape it off onto her teeth if she has teeth...faster that way!).


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Has anyone here used kombucha?? I just bought some at the HFS and went to look up stuff about it to see how much I should drink. I found this which is a bit scary. But I know that store bought it probably safe.

If you drink it, how much do you drink a day? I've heard 2-4 oz.

Is it as beneficial as yogurt?

From what I've read they determined the deaths had nothing to do with kombucha. I was drinking 6-8 oz a day. It is just different than yogurt--it contains both bacteria and yeasts, whereas yogurt just contains bacteria. Kombucha also contains gluconic (sp?) acid that helps your liver detox, BUT it also contains a variety of other substances that require detoxing by your liver, and it's high in amines. You might want to ask your naturopath for her opinion on it, as if your liver is in really bad shape it might not be such a great idea. I know it has a lot of health benefits for some people, but it didn't turn out to be a good thing for me because of the amines, and I think it was hard on my liver as the "detox" symptoms never would go away when I drank kombucha. JME, though.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I think DD is still intolerant to dairy...her eczema's getting a bit worse again and today I noticed that she has shadows under her eyes, although she's hasn't slept enough the last couple of nights so that might be the cause of the shadows. I'll give it a couple more days, though, since her eczema seems to get better and worse randomly for no reason that I can figure out.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Have you taken a candida questionnaire? There's some online...if you search for Dr. Crook and candida you should find one. I'm not sure how accurate the spit test really is, but I have heard that the questionnaire is pretty accurate. I don't know how accurate a stool test for candida is, either. I've heard that the most accurate candida test is a blood test.

I personally stay away from FOS, but some people really like them. IMO you'd be better off just giving her the custom probiotics because they don't contain any fillers or additives. You could give her a separate b. infantis probiotic as well if you like. She probably old enough to drink from a straw or a water bottle with a sport top, or you can just get your finger wet and put your finger into the probiotic powder (after you measure it out onto a spoon) and let her suck it off your finger (or scrape it off onto her teeth if she has teeth...faster that way!).

Well, the questionanaires are hard because I have so many other things going on that could also cause some of the symptoms. ywim?

I would give her the custom probiotics, but everything that I have been reading says that babies guts need infantis and bifidus (i think...my brain is all foggy today) and I've already been giving her my "adult" probiotics and don't want to screw her gut up anymore. I don't know. It's so hard making these decisions when there isn't concrete info anywhere.

FYI: Don't dip your finger in the probiotics to give to your dd. The guy at C.P.s said that's a big no-no and my ND said that too. You are getting "bad" bacteria from your finger in the bottle of probiotics.

So should I take the Nature's Way back, or does that look like a good blend? I don't know about the FOS, I wasn't thrilled about it, but that's all they had...


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Well, the questionanaires are hard because I have so many other things going on that could also cause some of the symptoms. ywim?

I would give her the custom probiotics, but everything that I have been reading says that babies guts need infantis and bifidus (i think...my brain is all foggy today) and I've already been giving her my "adult" probiotics and don't want to screw her gut up anymore. I don't know. It's so hard making these decisions when there isn't concrete info anywhere.

FYI: Don't dip your finger in the probiotics to give to your dd. The guy at C.P.s said that's a big no-no and my ND said that too. You are getting "bad" bacteria from your finger in the bottle of probiotics.

So should I take the Nature's Way back, or does that look like a good blend? I don't know about the FOS, I wasn't thrilled about it, but that's all they had...

I don't think my finger in the bottle, I dip the probiotics out onto a spoon and then stick my finger into what's on the spoon.

It seems like a decent blend to me if you're okay with the FOS in it. I don't really see that it's any different than giving her the custom probiotics + a separate b. infantis, though--either way she's getting "non-baby" strains.

I guess you could do a trial with anti-fungals and see if you have any die-off or feel any better (I'd recommend either Candex/Candidase/Candizyme or raw garlic).


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Would you mind sharing your sleep plan with me? I'm at my wits' end trying to figure out how to get my DD to sleep better (and go to sleep in the first place).

This book is REALLY good, and I've read pretty much every one on sleep and infants/toddlers out there:

*Sleepless in America: Is Your Child Misbehaving...or Missing Sleep?*
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...73602X/ggbc-20

It's by the author of the "Spirited Child" books. One thing I wish she would have addressed more would be helpful with our kids with sensory type sleep issues such as weighted blankets.

She is right on about keeping them calm... the more adrenaline in their systems the worse they are going to sleep. Unfortunately with gut issues, this is hard b/c their amino acids are off. At least that is what is going on with my DS. He is very moody and it definitely effects behavior and sleep.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Caedmyn,

So if drinking a lot of kombucha gives you headaches it could be an amines issue??

You think the fact that DS has been drinking plain raw milk as opposed to yogurt and doing better mean that too?

Geez. Is there *anything* that I can ignore and not have to incorporate into our already nightmarish dietary procedures ....!?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

OMG, bananas are bad for amine issue. If I took DS's bananas away, he would run away. Seriously.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Does milk thistle help with amines? Sorry to post a bunch at once, if I don't now when I'm thinking about it I'll forget.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
wow... i skip a day and miss a lot. found this link (http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-Kgb7f...sjmULpwU-?cq=1) through other means and thought i'd share. more wow.

I just couldn't help thinking of the movie title: "Willie's Baggie"









Very interesting though, thanks for posting. There is research on probiotics mitigating allergies, increasing IgA. Nutrients certainly do. I haven't gotten down to the contents of his baggie yet...

Hey, while I got you... could you do me a favor and find this study for me? I'm having trouble.

Quote:

a study at the hospital of the University of Pennsylvania found that only 20% of breast-fed infants (in a sample of 61) had a significant number of bifidobacteria. In a study conducted at a suburban hospital, just two-thirds of breast-fed babies (in a sample of 21) had significant numbers of bifidobacteria. Breastfeeding alone, particularly in urban areas, is not sufficient for infants' optimal well-being.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
For the WTS, she hasn't given me an Rx for it yet because I have to call and see what they use for fillers. It is the sustained release T3.
She gave me Ashwagandha powder and capsules to support my adrenal glands. I am taking 3 capsules of 500mg each a day. And two teaspoons of the powder, instead of the pills if I would like. (The powder is better, but more of a pain to take and tastes icky!)

I looked at that website and it's scary how exact everything has to be! With a baby to take care of, that's hard







: I'm going to look through the online dr.'s manual to get more info. Thanks for the link









I've been suspecting a low supply (not severe) for a while but it was attributed to my very limited diet and caloric intake. Dd has been nursing like crazy, and will never refuse the boob if I offer, which is unlike her. I figured she is constantly hungry and is probably ready for some solids. I wonder how else low progesterone effects your body...off to look up more in a bit









We live out in the country and have so many neighbors with goats, but I have no idea how sanitary their milking process is...I was hoping to get it from one of them, but who knows...I could always ask at the co-op! I will look into those yogurt starters...thanks!!









I think you just have to be sure to take the T3 every 12 hours, that's not too bad.

Low supply can be connected to low calcium so if you are dairy free be careful. That was my issue when I did the TED, I needed like 2,000 mg of calcium to keep up supply (probably wasn't aborbing it all and that was also before I was taking at least 3,000 IU of D a day too).


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
Jane, when are you supposed to temp and how often? My temps are all over the place.

Mine go up and down too. Interestingly when they are up I have more energy.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Mum2be:

I was just going to say that if you don't have pathogenic bacteria in your stool that might means it's MORE likely you have a candida problem. How many times have you taken antibiotics in your lifetime? I think there are so many other factors to developing leaky gut too: antibiotics in conventional meat, chlorinated water, history of birth control pills to just name a few.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Have you taken a candida questionnaire? There's some online...if you search for Dr. Crook and candida you should find one. I'm not sure how accurate the spit test really is, but I have heard that the questionnaire is pretty accurate. I don't know how accurate a stool test for candida is, either. I've heard that the most accurate candida test is a blood test.

Ditto this. Also the OAT test is supposed to be the best for detecting yeast: Organic Acids Test, urine.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
This book is REALLY good, and I've read pretty much every one on sleep and infants/toddlers out there:

*Sleepless in America: Is Your Child Misbehaving...or Missing Sleep?*
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...73602X/ggbc-20

It's by the author of the "Spirited Child" books. One thing I wish she would have addressed more would be helpful with our kids with sensory type sleep issues such as weighted blankets.

She is right on about keeping them calm... the more adrenaline in their systems the worse they are going to sleep. Unfortunately with gut issues, this is hard b/c their amino acids are off. At least that is what is going on with my DS. He is very moody and it definitely effects behavior and sleep.

I'll see if my library has that book, thanks. I just orderd the toddler NCSS so we'll see if that helps or not.

How can you tell if a child has sensory issues? DD hates having blankets over her legs--I can't cover her up unless she's really soundly asleep as she'll immediately start kick the blanket off (and usually wake herself up in the process).


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Caedmyn,

So if drinking a lot of kombucha gives you headaches it could be an amines issue??

You think the fact that DS has been drinking plain raw milk as opposed to yogurt and doing better mean that too?

Geez. Is there *anything* that I can ignore and not have to incorporate into our already nightmarish dietary procedures ....!?
















Amines can cause migraines, so I suppose they can cause regular headaches as well. If you eat some dark chocolate and get a headache that'd probably be a pretty good indicator as dark chocolate is very high in amines. Yogurt is supposed to be the one cultured food that is reasonably low in amines, although 24 hour yogurt is probably higher in amines than yogurt cultured for shorter periods. But I read that yogurt is high in glutamates which can also cause reactions... And I've also read that sometimes people react to certain strains of probiotics







:

Yeah the more I learn the less I know (and the more I wish I knew less!)


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Does milk thistle help with amines? Sorry to post a bunch at once, if I don't now when I'm thinking about it I'll forget.

Yes it should, because anything that supports the liver should help.

Getting OT on your question...do you know if milk thistle tincture is good for liver support (as opposed to the tea or ground seeds)? I've been doing different infusions for liver support but I think I'd like to try something simple, like a tincture.

If you join the native nutrition yahoo group, and search the archives for "biotin and candida", you can read a whole conversation between me and someone who seems very knowledgeable about food chemical sensitivities, nutrition, and a whole bunch of other things. He talks about different nutrients that help mitigate amine reactions (iron, for one). He's a real active poster, so you could also try posting your DS' issues and see if he has any new suggestions for you.


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## Rachel J. (Oct 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
And how old is he? Constipation has been correlated with low bifidus.

He's almost three and has been constipated most of his life








He loves yogurt so that's good from a probiotic standpoint. Unfortunately he's developed bad eczema on his bottom and it's spreading. Makes me wonder about food allergies (dairy,wheat/gluten). Just talked to dh about taking him to a ND a few hours away from here but dh wants to exhaust the local, insurance covered options first







: Oh well, at least he's open. I think everything is the bottom line ($$$) with him.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Just found a great source of bifidobacterium for our babes WITH NO dairy!! I searched on google and found a MDC thread where goodpapa suggested this particular brand. I searched on the brand and found this! It looks really good. Anyone know anythign about it?

I wanted to post that because I know many of you were looking for a dairy free probitioc for your dc.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Mum2be:

I was just going to say that if you don't have pathogenic bacteria in your stool that might means it's MORE likely you have a candida problem. How many times have you taken antibiotics in your lifetime? I think there are so many other factors to developing leaky gut too: antibiotics in conventional meat, chlorinated water, history of birth control pills to just name a few.

Ditto this. Also the OAT test is supposed to be the best for detecting yeast: Organic Acids Test, urine.

Ugh...seriously...I can't keep up with this anymore. There are so many tests! We've already spent well over $2,000 on tests and our insurance doesn't cover any of them







: I'll look again at that candida questionnaire.

I took antibiotics for acne for about 2 years in high school. Darn dermatologist never told me it could lead to leaky gut or candida, but who would? I also took heavy doses of Excedrin migraine pills for about 2 years in high school everyday, so I wouldn't have to go home sick with a migraine. Um, let's see, what else? Oh yes, I was on birth control pills for a total of 3 or 4 years.







: I'm just going to stop there...It's clear my body is falling apart...


----------



## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Sorry to keep posting again and again...

Just took the candida questionnaire and scored a 17. The only one that was negative was the UTI infection one.

Is the spit test pretty accurate?

Should I question my ND again, even when she seemed like the stool sample provided us with a good answer?


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Sorry to keep posting again and again...

Just took the candida questionnaire and scored a 17. The only one that was negative was the UTI infection one.

Is the spit test pretty accurate?

Should I question my ND again, even when she seemed like the stool sample provided us with a good answer?

I don't know how accurate the spit test is. What are you eating right now that you would have to eliminate for a candida diet? If you're only eating a few foods you may not be able to eliminate any to try a candida diet.

I still think your best bet is an anti-fungal trial. Raw garlic is cheap, and good for you regardless of whether you have candida or not. Digestive enzymes aren't too expensive, either.


----------



## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Well, my diet is pretty limited and I didn't have any sugar for around 5-6 months at all. The past 2.5 months I have added more sugar in...honey, brown sugar.

I know about garlic, but wonder how it would affect my milk. I heard it can alter the taste? Also, I have been taking digestive enzymes for a while now.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Well, my diet is pretty limited and I didn't have any sugar for around 5-6 months at all. The past 2.5 months I have added more sugar in...honey, brown sugar.

I know about garlic, but wonder how it would affect my milk. I heard it can alter the taste? Also, I have been taking digestive enzymes for a while now.

I was eating 5-6 cloves of raw garlic a day and it didn't bother DD any. Have you been taking digestive enzymes in between meals? The ones I mentioned are designed to be taken in between meals to kill yeast. Most candida diets also eliminate fruit and dairy and limit or eliminate grains and starchy veggies like potatoes and yams.


----------



## Rachel J. (Oct 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Well, my diet is pretty limited and I didn't have any sugar for around 5-6 months at all. The past 2.5 months I have added more sugar in...honey, brown sugar.

I know about garlic, but wonder how it would affect my milk. I heard it can alter the taste? Also, I have been taking digestive enzymes for a while now.

I've heard that, on average, babies nurse longer when their mothers eat garlic. That being said, I'm pretty sure large quantities bother my ds, and garlic is one of the few natural antifungals that I've been able to find as safe for bfing moms (anyone know of any others?). Totally antedotal but my cousin's baby refused to bf when she ate lots of garlic.


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Hey, while I got you... could you do me a favor and find this study for me? I'm having trouble....

weee... they don't give much info, do they? i'll see what i can do.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rachel J.* 
I've heard that, on average, babies nurse longer when their mothers eat garlic. That being said, I'm pretty sure large quantities bother my ds, and garlic is one of the few natural antifungals that I've been able to find as safe for bfing moms (anyone know of any others?). Totally antedotal but my cousin's baby refused to bf when she ate lots of garlic.

Digestive enzymes can be anti-fungal (between meals). I think grapefruit seed extract is safe but you don't want to take it for very long as I've read it kills the good bacteria, too. You could try oil of oregano but be careful as it can decrease milk supply. I took it for a couple of weeks and didn't have a problem but I've never had supply issues and I was drinking red raspberry leaf infusions at the same time.


----------



## SAmama (Oct 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
wow... i skip a day and miss a lot. found this link (http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-Kgb7f...sjmULpwU-?cq=1) through other means and thought i'd share. more wow.

Does he ever say what is in the baggie?


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## SAmama (Oct 13, 2006)

Oh, Caedmyn, they used to cook with pork fat here.







Honestly, I am getting used to the idea of other animal fats, but pork, yuck! We were in a village a while back during hog slaughtering festival and everything, everything was cooked in pork fat. I had a really hard time.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SAmama* 
Does he ever say what is in the baggie?

Yeah, in one of the blogs...#10 or 13 or 16...something like that.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SAmama* 
Oh, Caedmyn, they used to cook with pork fat here.







Honestly, I am getting used to the idea of other animal fats, but pork, yuck! We were in a village a while back during hog slaughtering festival and everything, everything was cooked in pork fat. I had a really hard time.

I don't know how they raise the pigs, but if the pigs eat a normal pig diet the fat is great to use. I just recently started using lard for baking and it makes things really moist and light. It might taste a bit odd to me for cooking, though, I don't know. Are you coming from a vegetarian/vegan background, or just trying to adjust to the saturated-fats-are-good mentality?


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SAmama* 
Does he ever say what is in the baggie?

yes... you have to dig for it... 21 different supplements


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
I was eating 5-6 cloves of raw garlic a day and it didn't bother DD any. Have you been taking digestive enzymes in between meals? The ones I mentioned are designed to be taken in between meals to kill yeast. Most candida diets also eliminate fruit and dairy and limit or eliminate grains and starchy veggies like potatoes and yams.

Mum2be:

Yes I would ditto taking enzymes between meals. They are the gentlest method I think and I found them immediately effective. Raw garlic really bothered me.

If you take both proteases and cellulases between meals it won't necessarily matter what type of dysbiosis you have IME.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Mum2be:

Yes I would ditto taking enzymes between meals. They are the gentlest method I think and I found them immediately effective. Raw garlic really bothered me.

If you take both proteases and cellulases between meals it won't necessarily matter what type of dysbiosis you have IME.

Any recs for a brand? The ones I get now from my ND are $26 and I can't afford to go through them any faster than I already am!


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Any recs for a brand? The ones I get now from my ND are $26 and I can't afford to go through them any faster than I already am!

http://www.vitacost.com/RenewLifeCandiZyme (Candizyme)
http://www.vitacost.com/NSI-Candida-...nagement/cas-1 (generic version of Candex...this one is cellulase only, no proteases)
http://www.throppsnutrition.com/ps_ElitezymeUltra.htm (digestive enzymes to be taken with meals...$18/bottle with multiple purchase discounts...I would imagine these are just as good as the ones you're getting from your naturopath)


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 

If you take both proteases and cellulases between meals it won't necessarily matter what type of dysbiosis you have IME.

Do you think enzymes in between meals would help improve digestion? I've been having problems with bloating/gas again







I've been taking the stronger of Thropp's enzymes both with and between meals.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Do you think enzymes in between meals would help improve digestion? I've been having problems with bloating/gas again







I've been taking the stronger of Thropp's enzymes both with and between meals.

*Enzymes between meals:* hands down one of the best things I've ever done for my gut.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

I have to say although probably most expensive (although maybe Enzymedica tops them) Houston's enzymes really are the best. The Peptizyde especially.


----------



## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Another question again...

Has anyone in the HTG tribe ever been "cured"? I mean, do we know anyone who had a leaky gut who is now fine and their dc too?

Will it take forever to fix my leaky gut? I've noticed a lot of you have been healing for a long time.

I guess it's just frustrating feeling like we're on our own with this. My dh is getting really angry that the only thing I can "do" is read stuff online and get help from people here. He wants a quick fix (as do I, but I know there isn't one) and is frustrated that I haven't gotten better yet...


----------



## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

This was on the Peptizyde part of the website:

_Reported Side Effects
In children sensitive to gluten and casein, initial use of Peptizyde™ may result in "exorphin-peptide withdrawal syndrome", as exorphin peptides are decreased in system. This may present as hyperactivity, irritability, increased aggression, tantrums, etc. for a period of several days to as long as a month. In most cases, this syndrome is resolved when dosing of 1 capsule per meal is obtained for a period of several days. Most parents report the cessation of negative behaviors after about 3 weeks. Often, the syndrome can be minimized by starting with low doses (¼ - ½ capsule) and working up to 1 capsule per meal within about 2 weeks. If behavior during this initial dosing becomes a concern, stop the enzyme supplementation for a period of 2 weeks (or until child returns to former behavior), then re-introduce Peptizyde™ at a much reduced dose and increase dosing at a much slower rate than previously used. Many parents also reported that decreasing or discontinuing certain vitamin supplements containing high amounts of B6 or P5P would alleviate much of the hyperactivity. Addition of HN-Zyme Prime to Peptizyde™ supplementation also seemed to reduce side effects from opiate withdrawal syndrome._

Honestly, I can't take anymore feelings of aggression!







Is that normal with food allergies/leaky gut? Gosh, I've never felt so angry in my life! I HATE it!! JaneS...did you find this to be true when you took it?

So, these are for in between meals? Like twice a day?

This is what I am taking now that I get from my ND. I don't know enough to be able to compare this to any other brands.

I hate having to take so many pills a day. My diet is horrible (still lacking a lot of things) so I should really be taking a multi vitamin and mineral supplement, but I hate to have to add MORE and also the extra $ spent would be hard...

Enough for now. I have a major headache and it's been a rough couple of days...


----------



## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Anyone know anything about this brand? Does this look like a good supplement? It's so cheap, that I have to wonder...


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Another question again...

Has anyone in the HTG tribe ever been "cured"? I mean, do we know anyone who had a leaky gut who is now fine and their dc too?

Will it take forever to fix my leaky gut? I've noticed a lot of you have been healing for a long time.

I guess it's just frustrating feeling like we're on our own with this. My dh is getting really angry that the only thing I can "do" is read stuff online and get help from people here. He wants a quick fix (as do I, but I know there isn't one) and is frustrated that I haven't gotten better yet...

Well what do you consider cured? I think I can say yes. I can eat "regular food" without enzymes, just had pancakes with maple syrup and strawberries this AM at a friends house... no bloating or gas.







I won't go into detail about poop quality but let me just say it's better.









However, I think do still need to be on intensive probiotics and do a traditional diet, lots of bone broths, CLO, soaked grain/low grain, low sugar, etc. But this is how I want to eat. I'll never go back to soy or harsh unsoaked grains or lots of sugar, I know better now.

DS is doing very well on his Rotation Diet with enzymes. He is sleeping better, skin looks great, poo's are generally good but tends to have constipation issues a bit, not that serious. Hardly ever diarrhea/soft stools now, that used to be his major problem and was clearly b/c his body was trying to expell allergens.

He ate RAW APPLE (with smoked salmon and you would've thought he was given ice cream he was so thrilled







) last week and did great!!! This is huge for him.









It's been a long road for us though. I didn't do things right in the beginning that's for sure, took longer than it might have needed to, but at least we are here now.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
This was on the Peptizyde part of the website:

_Reported Side Effects
In children sensitive to gluten and casein, initial use of Peptizyde™ may result in "exorphin-peptide withdrawal syndrome", as exorphin peptides are decreased in system. This may present as hyperactivity, irritability, increased aggression, tantrums, etc. for a period of several days to as long as a month. In most cases, this syndrome is resolved when dosing of 1 capsule per meal is obtained for a period of several days. Most parents report the cessation of negative behaviors after about 3 weeks. Often, the syndrome can be minimized by starting with low doses (¼ - ½ capsule) and working up to 1 capsule per meal within about 2 weeks. If behavior during this initial dosing becomes a concern, stop the enzyme supplementation for a period of 2 weeks (or until child returns to former behavior), then re-introduce Peptizyde™ at a much reduced dose and increase dosing at a much slower rate than previously used. Many parents also reported that decreasing or discontinuing certain vitamin supplements containing high amounts of B6 or P5P would alleviate much of the hyperactivity. Addition of HN-Zyme Prime to Peptizyde™ supplementation also seemed to reduce side effects from opiate withdrawal syndrome._

Honestly, I can't take anymore feelings of aggression!







Is that normal with food allergies/leaky gut? Gosh, I've never felt so angry in my life! I HATE it!! JaneS...did you find this to be true when you took it?

So, these are for in between meals? Like twice a day?

This is what I am taking now that I get from my ND. I don't know enough to be able to compare this to any other brands.

I hate having to take so many pills a day. My diet is horrible (still lacking a lot of things) so I should really be taking a multi vitamin and mineral supplement, but I hate to have to add MORE and also the extra $ spent would be hard...

Enough for now. I have a major headache and it's been a rough couple of days...

Yes, I had massive anxiety/panic feelings when starting Peptizyde. Like I drank an entire pot of coffee, it was not fun. I had to stop completely for a time (forget how long) then slowly, starting with a small amount with breakfast.

Do you have mood issues when not taking the enzymes? They are absolutely related to leaky gut... your gut creates the neurotransmitters. Your amino acids (from proteins) are directly responsible for making the brain fuel. A great book is _The Mood Cure_ by Julia Ross. It really helped me see personality differently. I went through insomnia and anxiety, all directly related to what my gut was doing at the time. And my nutritional stores.

What about bone broths? I think that is the biggest nutritional bang for your buck for minerals and amino acids and gelatin. It has L glutamine.

I'm not sure what to say about the pills... sometimes we really need the boost from supplements because we cannot eat enough of the right foods to get us better. But generally I try to stick to food supplements: cod liver oil, liver capsules, amla form of vitamin C. I do take selenium pills though.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 

Honestly, I can't take anymore feelings of aggression!







Is that normal with food allergies/leaky gut? Gosh, I've never felt so angry in my life! I HATE it!! JaneS...did you find this to be true when you took it?

So, these are for in between meals? Like twice a day?

This is what I am taking now that I get from my ND. I don't know enough to be able to compare this to any other brands.

I hate having to take so many pills a day. My diet is horrible (still lacking a lot of things) so I should really be taking a multi vitamin and mineral supplement, but I hate to have to add MORE and also the extra $ spent would be hard...

Enough for now. I have a major headache and it's been a rough couple of days...









I am so sorry your DD still won't sleep--my DD didn't sleep as poorly as yours but there have been so many times when I just felt like I couldn't do it one more day. I just keep telling myself: Someday she WILL go to sleep by herself and sleep ALL NIGHT LONG!

This quote from the enzyme website pretty much sums it up: "The blend of enzymes is unique because it is active across a broad pH range in the digestive tract.†" How much of a difference that makes vs. a much cheaper good quality enzyme like Thropps, I don't know. Maybe you could ask your naturopath what she thinks?


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

This is going to sound like a dumb question, but...does anyone know how to tell if you're bloated? Sometimes I can tell I'm bloated, but a lot of times I wonder if I am but can't really tell. My stomach is flattest first thing in the morning but gets big after meals and never really deflates til the next day. But my meals are pretty bulky, so I'm not sure how much of that is just normal due to portion size.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Anyone know anything about this brand? Does this look like a good supplement? It's so cheap, that I have to wonder...

I've used their version of Candex and it seems to be okay as far as I can tell...I think it helps. It's kind of a generic brand as far as I can tell so the prices are low but the quality is still decent. FWIW, I'd buy their products if they ever have the things I want.


----------



## Cello (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache* 
I hope the kinesiology thing works for you guys. Good luck with your trial! was so disappointed that Naet didn't work for us, but I'm still hopeful that dd will outgrow her allergies if we can avoid them for the next 2 yrs or so.









How long did it take for you to find out that NAET doesn't work?

I convinced my DH to go to his first appt today with an NAET practitioner, and she does testing and said based on his results, there was a good chance they would have to do the entire protocol -- which she said was not the average in her patients. And of course, she tries to push some supplements on us(glutamine, Saccharomyces boulardii). I asked her if we should try to heal his gut before we do NAET, she seemed like both together would help.

And as far as Chinese herbs, she pushes pills rather than real herbs. I asked her why, and her response was that unless you lived out in CA and had a China Town, it was not cost effective to stock so many herbs, and that most people were "lazy" and wanted the pills. She said she gets 1 or 2 at most/year who want to real herbs. Which leads to my next question: if she knows nothing about how these herbs are processed into these tiny little capsules, how would I know they are not causing more problems?

My poor DH's quality of life is horrible when his allergies break out(phenomenal fatigue), and it is really sad to hear ignorant stupid coworkers ask if he is contagious, because he is covered in pink splotchy spots -- so he wears long sleeve shirts all the time now. I know most people here are dealing with issues in their kids, but I'm honestly open to any advice you can give...It was hard enough for me to convince him to try YET another practitioners since western medicine has failed us, but I just did not get the warm and fuzzies about this woman....

Any input would be greatly appreciated ladies. Sorry if this was too long.


----------



## Cello (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
*Enzymes between meals:* hands down one of the best things I've ever done for my gut.









What brand of enzymes do you take, and what dose did you start at? I took some after the birth of DS b/c I ended up getting antibiotics, and I had the most horrible stomach aches for weeks on end. When I searched, I read a VARIETY of different reasons, ranging from that the bad stuff was dying off, there was an overgrowth of the good stuff, the product was bad, etc....You seem to have had success, and I was just curious HOW you did it....


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cello* 
How long did it take for you to find out that NAET doesn't work?

I convinced my DH to go to his first appt today with an NAET practitioner, and she does testing and said based on his results, there was a good chance they would have to do the entire protocol -- which she said was not the average in her patients. And of course, she tries to push some supplements on us(glutamine, Saccharomyces boulardii). I asked her if we should try to heal his gut before we do NAET, she seemed like both together would help.

And as far as Chinese herbs, she pushes pills rather than real herbs. I asked her why, and her response was that unless you lived out in CA and had a China Town, it was not cost effective to stock so many herbs, and that most people were "lazy" and wanted the pills. She said she gets 1 or 2 at most/year who want to real herbs. Which leads to my next question: if she knows nothing about how these herbs are processed into these tiny little capsules, how would I know they are not causing more problems?

My poor DH's quality of life is horrible when his allergies break out(phenomenal fatigue), and it is really sad to hear ignorant stupid coworkers ask if he is contagious, because he is covered in pink splotchy spots -- so he wears long sleeve shirts all the time now. I know most people here are dealing with issues in their kids, but I'm honestly open to any advice you can give...It was hard enough for me to convince him to try YET another practitioners since western medicine has failed us, but I just did not get the warm and fuzzies about this woman....

Any input would be greatly appreciated ladies. Sorry if this was too long.

Are the pills capsuled herbs? Did you ask her what she knows about them? I don't think it's necessarily bad to use herbs in capsules (if that's what she's recommending) instead of herbs to make into teas/infusions or whatever, and they would be easier to take that way.

What types of things is your DH allergic to? Has he tried any special diets (other than avoiding the allergens)?


----------



## Cello (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rachel J.* 
He's almost three and has been constipated most of his life







He loves yogurt so that's good from a probiotic standpoint. Unfortunately he's developed bad eczema on his bottom and it's spreading. Makes me wonder about food allergies (dairy,wheat/gluten). Just talked to dh about taking him to a ND a few hours away from here but dh wants to exhaust the local, insurance covered options first







: Oh well, at least he's open. I think everything is the bottom line ($$$) with him.

Would you mind sharing this ND or PMing it? I have never been to an ND, and a friend had a not so good experience with 2 that are 'close' to us....so we will probably have to travel several to find one....but luckily for me, my DH realizes that all the money in the world doesn't mean much if he is sick all the time...


----------



## Cello (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Are the pills capsuled herbs? Did you ask her what she knows about them? I don't think it's necessarily bad to use herbs in capsules (if that's what she's recommending) instead of herbs to make into teas/infusions or whatever, and they would be easier to take that way.

What types of things is your DH allergic to? Has he tried any special diets (other than avoiding the allergens)?

We have tried avoiding food, such as no dairy for months on end, without any help. His lips will swell up almost instantly if he eats anything spicy, dairy, citrus -- which is a good way for us to tell what he doesn't tolerate. But the GI symptoms don't always match the skin reactions either. We have never followed any of the diets I have read here. Although Jane S's Rotation Diet seems interesting enough to try. We even started WAPF and NT recently, and no improvement. Granted we aren't perfect, but much much better than we have ever been before. If you have any diet suggestions, I am ALL ears









And when I asked the AP today if she knew HOW the herbs are processed, she said she is not a scientist, and doesn't know how they are made! Basically brushed us off. I ask this stuff because DH had allergy shots(which he failed) and we found out LATER that he was allergic to the preservatives in the allergy shots! I know that the herbs would be easier to take in as a pill, but EASIER is often what has gotten us into trouble, from the way we eat, to finding a practitioner. Honestly, I would rather have more difficulty in my life if I can get his allergies somewhat under control. I know it sounds insane, but when a practitioner pushes the easy button, my alarms just go off.


----------



## Janelovesmax (Feb 17, 2006)

Body Ecology Diet
Has anyone read this book, familiar with the website, or followed the diet? I spoke to few people with candida problems and they said that "hands down, the best book and diet to follow for candida overgrowth".

Here is the website:

http://www.bodyecologydiet.com/

Also - do you guys prepare young coconut kefir? Heard it's great for healing the gut...


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cello* 
We have tried avoiding food, such as no dairy for months on end, without any help. His lips will swell up almost instantly if he eats anything spicy, dairy, citrus -- which is a good way for us to tell what he doesn't tolerate. But the GI symptoms don't always match the skin reactions either. We have never followed any of the diets I have read here. Although Jane S's Rotation Diet seems interesting enough to try. We even started WAPF and NT recently, and no improvement. Granted we aren't perfect, but much much better than we have ever been before. If you have any diet suggestions, I am ALL ears









And when I asked the AP today if she knew HOW the herbs are processed, she said she is not a scientist, and doesn't know how they are made! Basically brushed us off. I ask this stuff because DH had allergy shots(which he failed) and we found out LATER that he was allergic to the preservatives in the allergy shots! I know that the herbs would be easier to take in as a pill, but EASIER is often what has gotten us into trouble, from the way we eat, to finding a practitioner. Honestly, I would rather have more difficulty in my life if I can get his allergies somewhat under control. I know it sounds insane, but when a practitioner pushes the easy button, my alarms just go off.

I would probably be more concerned with the AP knowing what the herbs are supposed to do than with knowing how they're processed, but that's just me. I can understand your concern with her seeming lack of knowledge.

You could look into the Specific Carbohydrate Diet and the Failsafe Diet...I'd probably look at Failsafe first. Here's a link:
www.plantpoisonsandrottenstuff.com


----------



## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

this was posted recently in a local (bay area) email parents' network i get:

Quote:

Cocamide DEA allergy
-------------------------------------------
I've been diagnosed with a contact allergy to Cocamide DEA and advised to stay away from any products containing coconut derivatives. It was easy to find a bar soap without coconut oil. It turns out my conditioner is also coconut free, but finding a shampoo is turning out to be a real stickler, as is any kind of liquid hand soap.

If anyone knows of a product they can recommend it'd be great, especially one available locally. I am unsure about the ingredients of dish soap and laundry detergent because they don't list them. (At least what I have here...)

Does anyone else have this allergy and figured this out? My dermatologist wasn't sure about dish soap and seemed to think that laundry detergent wasn't something I needed to worry about, we use All Free and Clear. I wear gloves for dishes mostly, but it'd sure be nice not to have to... If anyone has a favorite web site along these topic lines please pass it along!
anyone with coconut allergy who considered shampoo/soaps as an issue? if so, what do you use? my first thought was dr bronner's, but it's coconut.


----------



## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cello* 
My poor DH's quality of life is horrible when his allergies break out(phenomenal fatigue), and it is really sad to hear ignorant stupid coworkers ask if he is contagious, because he is covered in pink splotchy spots -- so he wears long sleeve shirts all the time now. I know most people here are dealing with issues in their kids, but I'm honestly open to any advice you can give...It was hard enough for me to convince him to try YET another practitioners since western medicine has failed us, but I just did not get the warm and fuzzies about this woman....

Any input would be greatly appreciated ladies. Sorry if this was too long.

Sorry to hear about that. I know what it's like. I have pink patches on around my eyes, my hands, my face, as well as other places...people look at me like I'm contagious and some mothers even take their dc away from me







It makes me feel horrible. So I know how he feels









What else have you tried. Have you tried the things on the HTG cheat sheet? I've heard that NAET does wonders for some people and not much for others. I guess it depends on if you have the money to spare. It's just one more thing to try and certainly won't hurt. But if you really need to scrape together money to do it, I would do everything you can to heal his gut first. We almost did NAET, but it's super expensive and I would have to go twice a week for months and it's an hour away. With a 6 month old, that's almost impossible









I don't know your dh's particular problem...is it just a leaky gut? Have you looked into the Specific Carbohydrate Diet at all?


----------



## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
This is going to sound like a dumb question, but...does anyone know how to tell if you're bloated? Sometimes I can tell I'm bloated, but a lot of times I wonder if I am but can't really tell. My stomach is flattest first thing in the morning but gets big after meals and never really deflates til the next day. But my meals are pretty bulky, so I'm not sure how much of that is just normal due to portion size.

Let's see....how do I put this? I didn't know I was bloated, until I WASN'T bloated!







I always felt the same as you described. Tummy is flat in the morning, then after I ate it would get big. But since on this restricted diet, I never feel that "big" feeling after I eat. Sure, I feel full, but not "bloated."

Does that make any sense?


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

I've been going back and reading past HTG threads and have a new question (yes ladies, they never stop popping into my head







)...

It seems like there are a variety of diets people use to heal their guts and other issues. Is there one in particular that people have had the greatest results with.

I'm torn because dd reacts to things I consume through my milk, either because *I* do, or because she does. So adding new foods seems scary, but I don't think I can heal on this restricted diet I'm on now.

I've never had any bad bowel problems other than constipation (well, not so much constipation, but I have never been "regular") but not enough to cause me any discomfort. It just seems like I have a really bad leaky gut, no absorption issues (the test results confirmed this) so I'm wondering what diet I should be leaning towards.

Any ideas?


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## SAmama (Oct 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
I don't know how they raise the pigs, but if the pigs eat a normal pig diet the fat is great to use. I just recently started using lard for baking and it makes things really moist and light. It might taste a bit odd to me for cooking, though, I don't know. Are you coming from a vegetarian/vegan background, or just trying to adjust to the saturated-fats-are-good mentality?

Wow, I only get around to this thread every second day or so, and it sure moves fast.

I am coming from a "can do without meat" background, rather than vegetarian. I am South African though and grew up in the Kalahari where people "kill a chicken" when they want vegetables. So maybe I just had too much of a good thing for a while. Oh, and the whole mindset that saturated fats are bad is really hard to change!
The pork is just gross to me because the pork we get here often comes from villages and there the toilets are often open. And the pigs graze in the loos







Just very gross. And when they don't graze, they eat slop, which is leftovers from restaurants, including lots of meat (and msg, how can that be good for pigs?!). They can have all kinds of parasites, and I know most of us living here probably do to, but even more reason for me to avoid any more exposure to uninvited guests.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SAmama* 
Wow, I only get around to this thread every second day or so, and it sure moves fast.

I am coming from a "can do without meat" background, rather than vegetarian. I am South African though and grew up in the Kalahari where people "kill a chicken" when they want vegetables. So maybe I just had too much of a good thing for a while. Oh, and the whole mindset that saturated fats are bad is really hard to change!
The pork is just gross to me because the pork we get here often comes from villages and there the toilets are often open. And the pigs graze in the loos







Just very gross. And when they don't graze, they eat slop, which is leftovers from restaurants, including lots of meat (and msg, how can that be good for pigs?!). They can have all kinds of parasites, and I know most of us living here probably do to, but even more reason for me to avoid any more exposure to uninvited guests.

Yeah...in that case the fat probably isn't all that great!


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## Cello (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Sorry to hear about that. I know what it's like. I have pink patches on around my eyes, my hands, my face, as well as other places...people look at me like I'm contagious and some mothers even take their dc away from me







It makes me feel horrible. So I know how he feels









What else have you tried. Have you tried the things on the HTG cheat sheet? I've heard that NAET does wonders for some people and not much for others. I guess it depends on if you have the money to spare. It's just one more thing to try and certainly won't hurt. But if you really need to scrape together money to do it, I would do everything you can to heal his gut first. We almost did NAET, but it's super expensive and I would have to go twice a week for months and it's an hour away. With a 6 month old, that's almost impossible









I don't know your dh's particular problem...is it just a leaky gut? Have you looked into the Specific Carbohydrate Diet at all?


Thanks for you kind words. Have you tried NMT? If it works it should be quicker and not as expensive.

I am sure DH has leaky gut, so we are working on it with the probiotics, but not sure what else to give him, since several different practitioners have suggested vastly different things....so we are going to stick with the NAET, for a couple of months, and if not try the NMT in addition/in liu. I a just trying to keep him from going back on steroids. I bought a couple of books and am wading through them to see what to try first.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Let's see....how do I put this? I didn't know I was bloated, until I WASN'T bloated!







I always felt the same as you described. Tummy is flat in the morning, then after I ate it would get big. But since on this restricted diet, I never feel that "big" feeling after I eat. Sure, I feel full, but not "bloated."









:

Bloated to me is full plus uncomfortable bordering on painful for a long time. Full-normal is just, "Wow, I ate a lot" and then you forget about it in an hour. It's like the test for pornography, "You know it when you see it"


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *formerluddite* 
this was posted recently in a local (bay area) email parents' network i get:

anyone with coconut allergy who considered shampoo/soaps as an issue? if so, what do you use? my first thought was dr bronner's, but it's coconut.

Kiss My Face olive oil soaps.

I *think* this dishwasher detergent is okay:
http://www.ecover.com/us/en/Products...ing+Powder.htm


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Cello,

It also might be worth it for DH to consider a total raw milk fast where you drink nothing but raw milk (like 1-2 gallons a day). Apparently its like breastmilk for the immune system. Gale Force has done it search for her thread in Traditional Foods forum. It used to be common practice early last century at Mayo Clinic:
*
The Milk Cure*
http://www.realmilk.com/milkcure.html


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cello* 
What brand of enzymes do you take, and what dose did you start at? I took some after the birth of DS b/c I ended up getting antibiotics, and I had the most horrible stomach aches for weeks on end. When I searched, I read a VARIETY of different reasons, ranging from that the bad stuff was dying off, there was an overgrowth of the good stuff, the product was bad, etc....You seem to have had success, and I was just curious HOW you did it....


I would guess that the high proteases irritrated your intestinal lining (that was raw and exposed from antibiotics). Karen DeFelice's says this and she knows more about enzymes than anyone www.enzymestuff.com. She describes it as salt on a wound, it's cleaning out the bad stuff but it hurts for a while.

It's important to go slow. The website above has guidelines regarding.

I took both cellulases (for yeast, Houston's No Fenol or Candex) and proteases (for bad bacteria, Houston's Peptizyde or Enzymedica's Virastop) between meals b/c I didn't know what I had.

Probably both as I got thrush while bf'ing and DS had tested with bacterial issues. My guess is that most people have both really as there are hundreds of different species of yeasts and bacteria in our guts, both good and bad.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Darn it, where did my Dr. Ron post go... ?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

To Cello re: looking for ND

What about Dr. Ron Schmid, ND who is a board member of WAPF? He recovered from Crohn's or colitis or something like that in his 20's by drinking raw milk and eating seafood and veggies and small amounts of meat.

I would do the high amounts of cod liver oil too. The skin issues make me think of a vitamin A deficiency being a major factor. WAPF recommends 90,000 IU of A for a short time when facing a serious health crisis. I forget if it's several weeks or several months, check their website. This would be about 3 tablespoons/day of Blue Ice or Radiant Life.

www.drrons.com

Diet and Recovery from Chronic Disease
http://www.westonaprice.org/moderndi...icdisease.html


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Everyone is still pressuring me to stop bf'ing dd. There's no way in heck I would now...not after all I've been through with her. What can I tell them to get them off my back? Dh is angry with me because I won't make the switch to formula and I'm sick and tired of arguing...

I wouldn't mind supplementing her though. I think I have a low supply and I can't ever leave her because she nurses so often now. I can't pump, because my supply is too low and nothing ever comes out. (Well, I could get an ounce in about an hour







) I am afraid that she may not be gaining as well as she was and she constantly seems hungry.

My ND said goat milk would be a good substitute or supplement for BM. With an allergic babe (or we think is allergic...no telling if she's just reacting to things *my* body reacts to) is goat milk a good idea? Should it be raw or is that too risky? Would it be better to start her on homemade raw goat's milk yogurt? I know everyone is against me starting solids with her and we are holding off, but if she were to get goat milk, goat yogurt wouldn't be any different, right?

Considering my progesterone levels are so incredibly low (.7) I'm guessing that my supply is quite effected by that and won't increase until I get these levels taken care of.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Everyone is still pressuring me to stop bf'ing dd. There's no way in heck I would now...not after all I've been through with her. What can I tell them to get them off my back? Dh is angry with me because I won't make the switch to formula and I'm sick and tired of arguing...

I wouldn't mind supplementing her though. I think I have a low supply and I can't ever leave her because she nurses so often now. I can't pump, because my supply is too low and nothing ever comes out. (Well, I could get an ounce in about an hour







) I am afraid that she may not be gaining as well as she was and she constantly seems hungry.

My ND said goat milk would be a good substitute or supplement for BM. With an allergic babe (or we think is allergic...no telling if she's just reacting to things *my* body reacts to) is goat milk a good idea? Should it be raw or is that too risky? Would it be better to start her on homemade raw goat's milk yogurt? I know everyone is against me starting solids with her and we are holding off, but if she were to get goat milk, goat yogurt wouldn't be any different, right?

Considering my progesterone levels are so incredibly low (.7) I'm guessing that my supply is quite effected by that and won't increase until I get these levels taken care of.

She really needs to be supplemented with formula, or the nutritional equivalent of formula. Goat's milk is not a complete nutritional source for an infant. The book "Nourishing Traditions" or the Weston A Price Foundation website do have a recipe for homemade formula made with raw cow or goat milk, though. That would probably be my first choice. Raw milk is safe if it's from grass-fed animals and the milker follows good milk handling practices.

Can you take progesterone supplements to see if that increases your supply?


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Everyone is still pressuring me to stop bf'ing dd. There's no way in heck I would now...not after all I've been through with her. What can I tell them to get them off my back? Dh is angry with me because I won't make the switch to formula and I'm sick and tired of arguing...


What finally got my DH to close his trap was when I figured out how much it would cost for me to switch to one of the hypoallergenic formulas. Since my dd can't do dairy or soy, that would be the only option. I'm going off memory, but I think it would have been about $100/week at the time I figured it out. Now he's actually very supportive and thanks me for saving us the approximately $400/month. It is a sad statement about where he comes from sometimes, but I was more than happy to have him quit giving me grief.


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

I posted about this a while back, but I have this craving for jellybeans that won't go away. It's not about the sugar - it's about the intense flavor, I think (I don't carve the whole foods ones, just the jellybellys with the all the nasty additives and colors). So, what does this mean I'm lacking nutritionally? Anyone know what makes you crave intense flavor?


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
This is going to sound like a dumb question, but...does anyone know how to tell if you're bloated? Sometimes I can tell I'm bloated, but a lot of times I wonder if I am but can't really tell. My stomach is flattest first thing in the morning but gets big after meals and never really deflates til the next day. But my meals are pretty bulky, so I'm not sure how much of that is just normal due to portion size.

Oh, I so have this problem. It is one significant way I measure how well I am doing or not. I don't get a bloated feeling, per se, but it is like a distended stomach. I have wondered if it is due to weak pp stomach muscles, but that can't be the whole answer.

I am still torn about what diet I should be following right now. I am finally getting a stool analysis, so hopefully that will help me figure some things out.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
She really needs to be supplemented with formula, or the nutritional equivalent of formula. Goat's milk is not a complete nutritional source for an infant. The book "Nourishing Traditions" or the Weston A Price Foundation website do have a recipe for homemade formula made with raw cow or goat milk, though. That would probably be my first choice. Raw milk is safe if it's from grass-fed animals and the milker follows good milk handling practices.

Can you take progesterone supplements to see if that increases your supply?

Thanks for the formula info. I will look it up









My ND doesn't want me taking progesterone yet, because she thinks that my thyroid problems are causing my low progesterone levels...although I think that I have a hormonal problem anyway. Whenever I have been on birth control, I've been super healthy...I get off of it and I'm a mess again.

The interesting thing is, after I had dd, the first two weeks PP my eczema went away and my acne cleared up. It was a miracle!! Then it all came back again, exactly two weeks later.







I know that hormones are way different right after having a baby, but I don't know how the progesterone changes.

I start my T3 therapy for Wilson's Syndrome this week, so we will see if that changes anything. I hope so...


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou* 
What finally got my DH to close his trap was when I figured out how much it would cost for me to switch to one of the hypoallergenic formulas. Since my dd can't do dairy or soy, that would be the only option. I'm going off memory, but I think it would have been about $100/week at the time I figured it out. Now he's actually very supportive and thanks me for saving us the approximately $400/month. It is a sad statement about where he comes from sometimes, but I was more than happy to have him quit giving me grief.

Thanks for the idea....I've tried it though







I actually told him that it would cost around $2,000 a month and he still said, "Well, whatever works." His problem is he sees what a mess I am and how unhealthy I am and thinks somehow if I stopped nursing, I would be able to get better. IMO, it won't make a difference...


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine* 
Oh, I so have this problem. It is one significant way I measure how well I am doing or not. I don't get a bloated feeling, per se, but it is like a distended stomach. I have wondered if it is due to weak pp stomach muscles, but that can't be the whole answer.

I am still torn about what diet I should be following right now. I am finally getting a stool analysis, so hopefully that will help me figure some things out.

Yeah, that's exactly how it is with me. Sometimes I do actually feel bloated and uncomfortable, but mostly my stomach just sticks out...to the point where people are noticing and wondering if I'm pregnant! Actually I got a pregnancy test today just in case...I'd be shocked if I were pregnant because I'd be about 13-14 weeks along! Now I just have to get up the nerve to actually take the test...

I don't know what diet I should be doing now, either.


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## Cello (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Thanks for the idea....I've tried it though







I actually told him that it would cost around $2,000 a month and he still said, "Well, whatever works." His problem is he sees what a mess I am and how unhealthy I am and thinks somehow if I stopped nursing, I would be able to get better. IMO, it won't make a difference...

I think he just doesn't want to see you sick/hurt. Men are very different than women in how they deal with difficulties. I can't tell you how many times I wanted to stop pumping every 2 hours since I am an EPer(not by choice). He would just say that's fine, just think about it, and then if you are sure, do it. Needless to say, I am still pumping today. Several years ago we tried to focus on our different communication patterns, and it has really helped. Kinda off topic, so sorry. I know I'm lucky with DH, but try talking to your hubby about all of this -- in his terms.


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## Cello (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Cello,

It also might be worth it for DH to consider a total raw milk fast where you drink nothing but raw milk (like 1-2 gallons a day). Apparently its like breastmilk for the immune system. Gale Force has done it search for her thread in Traditional Foods forum. It used to be common practice early last century at Mayo Clinic:
*
The Milk Cure*
http://www.realmilk.com/milkcure.html

Thanks. I will look it up.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

mum2be, How old is she? Why is your dh angry at you for switching to formula? Does he think bfing is harming you or your dd? I would say if you do add anything, it should be homemade formula based on either meat or raw goat milk, not just milk because it's not right for human babies by itself. It's deficient in B12 and folic acid, among other things.
I couldn't help noticing in one photo she's using a pacifier. Have you talked to a good lactation consultant? Pacifiers are usually big no-nos if you have supply problems -- you want your baby to get all her sucking needs met at the breast. It will build your supply if she is nursing even non-nutritively for comfort.
You said you're not sure which diet is best for you? I would say, if you are already doing a whole foods diet, that you should go with your intuition about what to cut out (if you can't afford a test of allergies that you trust). Make sure you get plenty of cod liver oil and minerals, too, especially calcium. And broccoli is supposed to be good for hormone problems.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
mum2be, How old is she? Why is your dh angry at you for switching to formula? Does he think bfing is harming you or your dd? I would say if you do add anything, it should be homemade formula based on either meat or raw goat milk, not just milk because it's not right for human babies by itself. It's deficient in B12 and folic acid, among other things.
I couldn't help noticing in one photo she's using a pacifier. Have you talked to a good lactation consultant? Pacifiers are usually big no-nos if you have supply problems -- you want your baby to get all her sucking needs met at the breast. It will build your supply if she is nursing even non-nutritively for comfort.
You said you're not sure which diet is best for you? I would say, if you are already doing a whole foods diet, that you should go with your intuition about what to cut out (if you can't afford a test of allergies that you trust). Make sure you get plenty of cod liver oil and minerals, too, especially calcium. And broccoli is supposed to be good for hormone problems.


Well, the pacifier has been a life savor. She screamed the entire first 3.5 months of her life, and after she started taking a pacifier, she seemed more happy. I was against it, but she really needs it and I can NOT become a human pacifier. She nurses almost every 45 minutes during the day anyway...

Dh thinks because of my leaky gut that my breastfeeding her is harming her, or setting her up for life long problems. He also feels like it's hindering my recovery because I can't go anywhere or do anything. She won't take a bottle of BM (prefers having her mommy's boob, but I have a feeling she'd take a bottle of something else) so I can't leave her.

I did an IgG test last summer and it came back with a lot. I just recently took an IgE test and it all came back negative! Woohoo!

But my gut is so "leaky" that the doctor at the lab thought I had really bad Celiac's and had been consuming a lot of wheat and gluten. Well, I haven't had either wheat or gluten for almost a year...So I don't know if I could just go back to a good, whole foods diet with all of the things I feel my body needs. I would it I wasn't nursing, but I have no idea what eating the bigger allergens would do to dd...


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

BTW: dd is a little over 6 months..


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

I posted this before, but I don't think it got answered...

I ordered dd some Natren probiotics and I need to give her 1/2 teaspoon or something like that 2 or 3 times I day. Can I just mix it with about 1/8 cup of water and put it in a bottle? I would use BM, but I can't pump...Would that be okay?

Also, I got my Custom Probiotics and started them yesterday. Man, they are YUCKY to drink and you can't eat anything for 45 minutes afterwards. I just want to eat something to get rid of the taste! I hope they work.

JaneS-I started my T3 treatments today. I'll keep you posted!


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou* 
I posted about this a while back, but I have this craving for jellybeans that won't go away. It's not about the sugar - it's about the intense flavor, I think (I don't carve the whole foods ones, just the jellybellys with the all the nasty additives and colors). So, what does this mean I'm lacking nutritionally? Anyone know what makes you crave intense flavor?

what about using licorice root? though you might read about its use and its effect on gut, etc etc (coz you know that something tasty is going to be bad for you in some way or another!)


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
I ordered dd some Natren probiotics and I need to give her 1/2 teaspoon or something like that 2 or 3 times I day. Can I just mix it with about 1/8 cup of water and put it in a bottle? I would use BM, but I can't pump...Would that be okay?

Yes.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Well it looks like dairy is still a no-go for DD. Her eczema got a bit worse while we were doing the trial although it didn't appear that she had any digestive problems...except after the last day she had some diarrhea (probably teething-related) and there were a few specks of blood in that. I don't know if that was dairy-related or just because of the diarrhea. I did eat a pint of ice cream the last day, whereas the rest of the trial I'd only eaten about 1/2 c. of goat yogurt, so maybe the quantity of dairy I ate, or the cow milk, affected her at the end.

I am having major digestive issues. I'm not so bloated today after I did a magnesium flush yesterday, but now my stomach is rumbling after every meal. I'm afraid I'm going to develop IBS or something like that. I don't know if I should just eliminate grains entirely and go back to losing a lot of weight and not getting enough to eat, or if I should only eat white rice, or if I need to figure out a balance between the amines in soaked grains and the fact that I don't digest unsoaked ones very well...

Really this sucks. I've been trying to heal both of our guts for just shy of a year, and I think we're both worse off than we were when we started. Some symptoms are gone, but others have taken their place. Maybe I should just have eliminated dairy a year ago and left things to take their natural course.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Well it looks like dairy is still a no-go for DD. Her eczema got a bit worse while we were doing the trial although it didn't appear that she had any digestive problems...except after the last day she had some diarrhea (probably teething-related) and there were a few specks of blood in that. I don't know if that was dairy-related or just because of the diarrhea. I did eat a pint of ice cream the last day, whereas the rest of the trial I'd only eaten about 1/2 c. of goat yogurt, so maybe the quantity of dairy I ate, or the cow milk, affected her at the end.

I am having major digestive issues. I'm not so bloated today after I did a magnesium flush yesterday, but now my stomach is rumbling after every meal. I'm afraid I'm going to develop IBS or something like that. I don't know if I should just eliminate grains entirely and go back to losing a lot of weight and not getting enough to eat, or if I should only eat white rice, or if I need to figure out a balance between the amines in soaked grains and the fact that I don't digest unsoaked ones very well...

Really this sucks. I've been trying to heal both of our guts for just shy of a year, and I think we're both worse off than we were when we started. Some symptoms are gone, but others have taken their place. Maybe I should just have eliminated dairy a year ago and left things to take their natural course.

re - grains... have you tried a slow-cook way of doing grains? NT has a recipe for unsoaked brown rice, only it cooks for 3 hours or so. turns it to mush if you let it go long enough (though in my crockpot, it starts getting crispy and burnt on the edges).

what about doing the initial intro SCD diet to reset things? (or some appropriate modification) and then add things in without regard to SCD.

are you eating crucifers? (Broccoli, cabbage, and cousins) those give us really rumbly tummies - especially brussel sprouts. i eliminated them all for about a week and have been slowly bringing them back (and cooking the heck out of them) and we're much less rumbly now.

when i eat goat cheese, ds wakes up SCREAMING in the middle of the night. i've thought about trying a DPP-IV enzyme but it's a little pricy and i think it's just easier for the moment to not mess with what is generally working. btw, the DPP-IV enzyme is also supposed to work on gluten - maybe that's the enzyme you need to use for the moment?


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

so i finally hunted down the Zinc Status stuff just to see if we have a zinc deficiency. i guess if it has no taste at all - nada, nothing, plain ol' water - that i'm just a wee bit zinc deficient?

does anyone have a good oyster stew recipe?

the supremely good news is that ds LOVES LOVES LOVES bone broth aka "soup" in our house. but only if it is in his "teacup" (a salmon-colored espresso shot mug that we got from dh's grandma). he loves this ham bone broth so much that he can go through a small mason jar (8oz?) all by himself in one sitting, teacup full by teacup full.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

JaneS - that mystery study you asked about... i think i saw it referenced VERBATIM in another article on another website; the article was dated 1989. beyond that, i can't find anything. and i thought about asking the article's author what his source was but the guy doesn't have an email address. (who publishes on the internet and doesn't have an email address?)


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

mum2be - repeat after me: breastmilk is the best source of nutrition for baby because it is SECRETED, and secretion is the basis of nutrition.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

bluets: What do you mean by that? I didn't say I wanted to stop bf'ing...I said my husband and a lot of other people are pressuring me to and what could I tell them to make them stop...

I don't think she is getting enough of my milk. I haven't had her weighed in a while, but she is a lot more boney (sp?). I feel her ribs, backbone and shoulder bones way more than I did before. I don't know if this is just what happens as babies get older (they lose their pudge), but she's only 6 months. I would NOT stop bf'ing her, but I am wondering if I need to supplement her.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Well it looks like dairy is still a no-go for DD. Her eczema got a bit worse while we were doing the trial although it didn't appear that she had any digestive problems...except after the last day she had some diarrhea (probably teething-related) and there were a few specks of blood in that. I don't know if that was dairy-related or just because of the diarrhea. I did eat a pint of ice cream the last day, whereas the rest of the trial I'd only eaten about 1/2 c. of goat yogurt, so maybe the quantity of dairy I ate, or the cow milk, affected her at the end.

I am having major digestive issues. I'm not so bloated today after I did a magnesium flush yesterday, but now my stomach is rumbling after every meal. I'm afraid I'm going to develop IBS or something like that. I don't know if I should just eliminate grains entirely and go back to losing a lot of weight and not getting enough to eat, or if I should only eat white rice, or if I need to figure out a balance between the amines in soaked grains and the fact that I don't digest unsoaked ones very well...

Really this sucks. I've been trying to heal both of our guts for just shy of a year, and I think we're both worse off than we were when we started. Some symptoms are gone, but others have taken their place. Maybe I should just have eliminated dairy a year ago and left things to take their natural course.


Aww







That's gotta be so frustrating. I know that a lot of my problems started AFTER I eliminated all of the foods that showed up positive on my IgG test, and the foods that dd reacted to.

Sometimes I feel like there are so many healthy, good for me foods, that I can't have and that just negates my whole healing process.

I don't know what I'd do in your situation. I know that if I had been trying that long to heal my gut and hadn't seen much improvement, I would definitely try something else. Is your dd still nursing and does she still react to foods you eat? If not, I would attempt to add more foods in and see what happens.

I hope you figure something out. This whole thing is so frustrating...


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
re - grains... have you tried a slow-cook way of doing grains? NT has a recipe for unsoaked brown rice, only it cooks for 3 hours or so. turns it to mush if you let it go long enough (though in my crockpot, it starts getting crispy and burnt on the edges).

what about doing the initial intro SCD diet to reset things? (or some appropriate modification) and then add things in without regard to SCD.

are you eating crucifers? (Broccoli, cabbage, and cousins) those give us really rumbly tummies - especially brussel sprouts. i eliminated them all for about a week and have been slowly bringing them back (and cooking the heck out of them) and we're much less rumbly now.

when i eat goat cheese, ds wakes up SCREAMING in the middle of the night. i've thought about trying a DPP-IV enzyme but it's a little pricy and i think it's just easier for the moment to not mess with what is generally working. btw, the DPP-IV enzyme is also supposed to work on gluten - maybe that's the enzyme you need to use for the moment?

I'm not eating any gluten-containing grains. I'm not eating crucifers very much, either, but the crucifers are generally high in oxalates, and I am eating a lot of oxalates, so maybe that's part of the problem.

I have sort of tried the long-cook method (IIRC NT recommends 2 hours cooked in bone broth)...cooking for maybe 75-90 minutes. I may have to let stuff cook into mush, though. Right now I'm trying white rice to see if it's something about whole grains, or if it's starch or carbohydrates in general, or who knows what else it could be.

I could try the beginning of the SCD for a few days...I just hate being hungry and I know I'll be hungry if I do that. It'd be worth if it stops these gut problems, though.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
bluets: What do you mean by that? I didn't say I wanted to stop bf'ing...I said my husband and a lot of other people are pressuring me to and what could I tell them to make them stop...

I don't think she is getting enough of my milk. I haven't had her weighed in a while, but she is a lot more boney (sp?). I feel her ribs, backbone and shoulder bones way more than I did before. I don't know if this is just what happens as babies get older (they lose their pudge), but she's only 6 months. I would NOT stop bf'ing her, but I am wondering if I need to supplement her.

I think you're referring to Pookietooth's post, and I think she just misspoke (mis-typed?)...reading the rest of the post you can tell she understood what you were saying.

Babies usually slim down once they start to walk, but a 6 month old should still be chubby, IMO. It might not be a bad idea to supplement for a couple of weeks and see if she fattens up some.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
I don't know what I'd do in your situation. I know that if I had been trying that long to heal my gut and hadn't seen much improvement, I would definitely try something else. Is your dd still nursing and does she still react to foods you eat? If not, I would attempt to add more foods in and see what happens.

She does still react to the foods I already realized she reacted to (like dairy), but I don't think she's reacting to anything I'm eating now. She's still nursing, although sometimes I seriously want to wean just so I can eat some of the things she reacts to.







:


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
bluets: What do you mean by that? I didn't say I wanted to stop bf'ing...I said my husband and a lot of other people are pressuring me to and what could I tell them to make them stop...

I don't think she is getting enough of my milk. I haven't had her weighed in a while, but she is a lot more boney (sp?). I feel her ribs, backbone and shoulder bones way more than I did before. I don't know if this is just what happens as babies get older (they lose their pudge), but she's only 6 months. I would NOT stop bf'ing her, but I am wondering if I need to supplement her.

and you tell them that because breastmilk is secreted, and that secretion is the basis of nutrition, why on earth would you stop? because breastmilk is secreted, it is already somewhat digested, so your lil one doesn't have to work hard to convert it into body building components.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 

It seems like there are a variety of diets people use to heal their guts and other issues. Is there one in particular that people have had the greatest results with.

i didn't follow a specific diet. i followed loosely the initial SCD for a few days though without dairy, then i added a few supplements and focused on healing foods (bone broths, low allergenic meats, reduced grains almost completely - except brown rice - for the longest time, wellcooked veggies). i still stay away from gluten mostly because it makes me feel like crap and i start putting on weight, so i imagine a sensitivity of some sort.

Quote:

I've never had any bad bowel problems other than constipation (well, not so much constipation, but I have never been "regular") but not enough to cause me any discomfort. It just seems like I have a really bad leaky gut, no absorption issues (the test results confirmed this) so I'm wondering what diet I should be leaning towards.

Any ideas?
do you drink coffee? i read a paper that coffee can set up a (false?) leaky gut scenario and that, if one abstains from drinking coffee for at least 48 hours prior to taking the leaky gut test, then the test should correctly reflect the leakiness of the gut. otherwise, the gut will be leaky. does that make sense?


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## Rachel J. (Oct 30, 2005)

Gone for a few days and I'm already way behind on the posts. It's hard to keep up with you all!







I think I have poor adrenal function, definitely a adrenal/mixed type based on the questionaire that was posted previously. I found an adrenal support supplement that's on sale with Frontier and thought I'd get some through the co op if it's any good. Anyone know anything about this one?


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rachel J.* 
Gone for a few days and I'm already way behind on the posts. It's hard to keep up with you all!







I think I have poor adrenal function, definitely a adrenal/mixed type based on the questionaire that was posted previously. I found an adrenal support supplement that's on sale with Frontier and thought I'd get some through the co op if it's any good. Anyone know anything about this one?

My ND put me on Ashwaganda for adrenal support. It's this brand.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 

do you drink coffee? i read a paper that coffee can set up a (false?) leaky gut scenario and that, if one abstains from drinking coffee for at least 48 hours prior to taking the leaky gut test, then the test should correctly reflect the leakiness of the gut. otherwise, the gut will be leaky. does that make sense?

I used to, but haven't had any since before my pregnancy and even then it was a couple of cups a week of decaf. That's good to know though!


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## Janelovesmax (Feb 17, 2006)

I'm really sorry, I'm still relatively new on this thread. What does SCD stand for? What does NAET stand for?


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## Cello (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Janelovesmax* 
I'm really sorry, I'm still relatively new on this thread. What does SCD stand for? What does NAET stand for?

Specific Carbohydrates Diet. Other than that I don't know much about it, as I am trying to read on FailSafe now. One things at a time for my little brain









NAET: http://www.naet.com/

My DH had his first NAET removal this week, and it is an AP, so who knows, it may or may not work. I just am a bit confused how an AP, DC, ND, etc could do it. If you're interested I'll keep you posted on what happens.

How is the body ecology diet coming? I looked at the site, and it seems to incorporate many of the NT ideas, but very stringent the carb aspect, like NO the avocados surprised me, etc. Are you following it, or just reading up on it?


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Yeah, that's exactly how it is with me. Sometimes I do actually feel bloated and uncomfortable, but mostly my stomach just sticks out...to the point where people are noticing and wondering if I'm pregnant! Actually I got a pregnancy test today just in case...I'd be shocked if I were pregnant because I'd be about 13-14 weeks along! Now I just have to get up the nerve to actually take the test...

I don't know what diet I should be doing now, either.

Are you taking enzymes? I was not really taking them for a while, and then I started again, but have since run out. As if my stomach protrusion could get any worse, it seems as if it has. That and the awful gas I had tonight (leeks for dinner??), I ordered more just a bit ago.

In fact, I have been off most supplements lately, even SA. It is hard to feel like it isn't all just a big waste of money and effort.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluets
what about doing the initial intro SCD diet to reset things? (or some appropriate modification) and then add things in without regard to SCD.
I have thought of this. Well, I didn't think about abandoning SCD after the intro, which is why I haven't done anything more about it. I just can't find the energy for another diet that may or may not work.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Well, the pacifier has been a life savor. She screamed the entire first 3.5 months of her life, and after she started taking a pacifier, she seemed more happy. I was against it, but she really needs it and I can NOT become a human pacifier. She nurses almost every 45 minutes during the day anyway...

Dh thinks because of my leaky gut that my breastfeeding her is harming her, or setting her up for life long problems. He also feels like it's hindering my recovery because I can't go anywhere or do anything. She won't take a bottle of BM (prefers having her mommy's boob, but I have a feeling she'd take a bottle of something else) so I can't leave her.

I did an IgG test last summer and it came back with a lot. I just recently took an IgE test and it all came back negative! Woohoo!

But my gut is so "leaky" that the doctor at the lab thought I had really bad Celiac's and had been consuming a lot of wheat and gluten. Well, I haven't had either wheat or gluten for almost a year...So I don't know if I could just go back to a good, whole foods diet with all of the things I feel my body needs. I would it I wasn't nursing, but I have no idea what eating the bigger allergens would do to dd...

As far as supply issues -- well, I'm sure over in bfing challenges they have stuff, but I'm pretty sure some of the archived HTG threads mention low supply as a sign of a reaction to something (or lack of something). I wish the HTG threads were all in one place.
I think that the damage was already done by now in terms of your leaky gut and your dd. At this point, healing you and her both would help her anyway.

As far as what to eliminate, I think it depends on what you're reacting to. There are several approaches to healing the gut, not just one, and I think that's because it's a highly individual thing. SCD helps some but not all. Slippery Elm gruel helps some but not all. Raw foods help some but not all. The Maker's Diet helps some but not all. Sorry I couldn't help more, but it really is an individual thing.

As far as the binky, I think your dd's extreme sucking need could also be a sign of gut problems -- kids with reflux all tend to need them, even if they are exclusively breastfed.

DS would never take BM from a bottle, but he would drink it from a sippy cup. Have you tried that? Remember too that it's about her emotional needs, because she may not want to be separated from you that long.








mama. It's rough, but it will get better as she gets older. I'm sure of that.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine* 
I have thought of this. Well, I didn't think about abandoning SCD after the intro, which is why I haven't done anything more about it. I just can't find the energy for another diet that may or may not work.

I also have the same issue -- I actually have halfway abandoned the SCD (which means fully, since you have to do it 100%), but just don't have the energy to find another one. And none of the other ones seemed any better.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
She's still nursing, although sometimes I seriously want to wean just so I can eat some of the things she reacts to.







:

I think this is very common. I went through it a couple of years ago, although I'm still nursing my 4 year old (which is uncommon even among MDC mams, I'm finding).
For me, it was a combination of wanting to eat the stuff and (I think) frustration with feeling like your bm has to be "perfect" when LLL and others say it doesn't. They lied!


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
bluets: What do you mean by that? I didn't say I wanted to stop bf'ing...I said my husband and a lot of other people are pressuring me to and what could I tell them to make them stop...

I don't think she is getting enough of my milk. I haven't had her weighed in a while, but she is a lot more boney (sp?). I feel her ribs, backbone and shoulder bones way more than I did before. I don't know if this is just what happens as babies get older (they lose their pudge), but she's only 6 months. I would NOT stop bf'ing her, but I am wondering if I need to supplement her.

Sorry, my bad, I mistyped and asked why your dh was mad at you for switching to formula when I meant to ask why he was mad at you for *not* switching. Ugh.

As far as her skinniness, I think that that's also a sign of gut damage, and that in general, supplementing won't help because it's the malabsorbtion causing the skinniness, not how much milk she takes in. But of course I don't know your dd. Could you see a good lactation consultant? I know my ds was skinny as a baby, too, and now that he's eating plenty, he's skinny as a four year old. Although he has gained weight in the past few months with all the treatments he's been getting (cranialsacral, homeopathy, CLO, etc.) I know of several skinny kids who don't get any breastmilk anymore. Two of them have a mom with allergies, and I'm positive they have undiagnosed ones that are causing their skinniness and dark circles and fussiness (but I don't know their mom well enough to say anything, and she's pretty mainstream).








to all you mamas. I hope we all heal!


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine* 
(leeks for dinner??)

the onions in my onion-artichoke soup last night just about caused my belly to explode. no effect on dh who actually uses those digestive enzymes.

leeks are cousins to onions so are high in sulfur compounds...

if i felt i needed to reset things in my gut, i would go back to GALLONS of bone broth with side dishes of chicken/turkey (hard to get organic lamb here otherwise i'd use it) and apples, carrots, maybe peas/squash too. i think i'd even cut out the kefir for a few days - i don't think that one would need more than a week of that, probably only 3-5 days. then i'd slowly reintroduce things - yogurt/kefir, avocado, green beans, cauliflower, broccoli, pears, berries... etc. 1 new thing per *week*. veggies get well-steamed or cooked to death in bone broth. boring as heck but (a) easy shopping list! and (b) i'd know what was giving me issues pretty darn fast and (c) gradual retraining the gut on how to digest stuff.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine* 
Are you taking enzymes? I was not really taking them for a while, and then I started again, but have since run out. As if my stomach protrusion could get any worse, it seems as if it has. That and the awful gas I had tonight (leeks for dinner??), I ordered more just a bit ago.

In fact, I have been off most supplements lately, even SA. It is hard to feel like it isn't all just a big waste of money and effort.

I'm still taking enzymes and Betaine HCL. Actually I think a lot of the bloating was due to low stomach acid as now that I've increased my dose of HCL I'm having a lot less problems with bloating...except now my stomach is rumbly and unhappy after meals. I wonder if the casein I ate during DD's dairy trial messed up my gut...although I wasn't aware of being more than very slightly dairy intolerant (possibly lactose intolerant).


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
if i felt i needed to reset things in my gut, i would go back to GALLONS of bone broth with side dishes of chicken/turkey (hard to get organic lamb here otherwise i'd use it) and apples, carrots, maybe peas/squash too. i think i'd even cut out the kefir for a few days - i don't think that one would need more than a week of that, probably only 3-5 days. then i'd slowly reintroduce things - yogurt/kefir, avocado, green beans, cauliflower, broccoli, pears, berries... etc. 1 new thing per *week*. veggies get well-steamed or cooked to death in bone broth. boring as heck but (a) easy shopping list! and (b) i'd know what was giving me issues pretty darn fast and (c) gradual retraining the gut on how to digest stuff.

Thanks for the suggestions. I do need someone to give me a plan! Gotta get back on the bone broth making.

I forget where I read it, but isn't non-organic lamb supposed to be ok? I forget why -- something about where they graze?


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
I'm still taking enzymes and Betaine HCL. Actually I think a lot of the bloating was due to low stomach acid as now that I've increased my dose of HCL I'm having a lot less problems with bloating...except now my stomach is rumbly and unhappy after meals. I wonder if the casein I ate during DD's dairy trial messed up my gut...although I wasn't aware of being more than very slightly dairy intolerant (possibly lactose intolerant).

I was taking the HCL too, and I thought it was helping me digest things like salad w/o the nausea that I was having before. But then I had a bout of what I now know is gastritis, did the baking soda test, and burped right away. Not really sure where I stand right now.

I also really bloat after drinking, even water. What is that about?


----------



## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
I'm still taking enzymes and Betaine HCL. Actually I think a lot of the bloating was due to low stomach acid as now that I've increased my dose of HCL I'm having a lot less problems with bloating...except now my stomach is rumbly and unhappy after meals. I wonder if the casein I ate during DD's dairy trial messed up my gut...although I wasn't aware of being more than very slightly dairy intolerant (possibly lactose intolerant).

How do you know you have low stomach acid? My stool sample showed that I have a more alkaline pH, and I'm assuming that means from my stomach, but I don't know. Is the Betaine an enzyme?


----------



## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
As far as supply issues -- well, I'm sure over in bfing challenges they have stuff, but I'm pretty sure some of the archived HTG threads mention low supply as a sign of a reaction to something (or lack of something). I wish the HTG threads were all in one place.
I think that the damage was already done by now in terms of your leaky gut and your dd. At this point, healing you and her both would help her anyway.

As far as what to eliminate, I think it depends on what you're reacting to. There are several approaches to healing the gut, not just one, and I think that's because it's a highly individual thing. SCD helps some but not all. Slippery Elm gruel helps some but not all. Raw foods help some but not all. The Maker's Diet helps some but not all. Sorry I couldn't help more, but it really is an individual thing.

As far as the binky, I think your dd's extreme sucking need could also be a sign of gut problems -- kids with reflux all tend to need them, even if they are exclusively breastfed.

DS would never take BM from a bottle, but he would drink it from a sippy cup. Have you tried that? Remember too that it's about her emotional needs, because she may not want to be separated from you that long.








mama. It's rough, but it will get better as she gets older. I'm sure of that.


Well, I'm pretty sure we think my low supply is due to 1) low caloric intake and 2) (this is the major red flag) that my progesterone levels are about what a pre-menpausal woman's would be at...waaaaay too low. And this is the dominant hormone of nursing mothers (I believe anyway...)

You see, the funny thing is, I never had any issues until I got pregnant. I was eating foods fine, only minor bloating and I wasn't "regular." I ate anything and everything I wanted to. It wasn't until my ND did an IgG test because of eczema I developed in pregnancy and I cut out all sorts of foods that came up positive, did all the real issues start. The further my diet has been restricted, the worse my symptoms have become







:

And doctors have been telling me that dd doesn't have leaky gut, because one doesn't just "get it." It develops over time. She has never been exposed to any antibiotics or anything. She was naturally born at home, has only ever had BM and the occasional homeopathic remedy. So how could she have leaky gut? I honestly believe that her symptoms are caused by my BM. There are big, undigested proteins getting into my milk, some of which my body probably sees as allergens because I can't break down food properly. Her body isn't designed to break these down and I truly believe that is what is causing the mucus in her stools, the gas, the crankiness, etc.

I could be way off base here, but that's what I think is happening. Whether or not she develops allergies because of this is another story. I'm praying that she won't. I want her to be able to eat normally!!

Does any of that make sense? I'm a little low on sleep here, so forgive me if I ramble...


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Okay, this is wishful thinking and I may be asking too much, but it seems like there are so many people who read and respond on this thread. It's hard to keep track of what everyone is doing. Can we all do a recap and tell each other a little bit about our leaky gut journey?

Does that sound okay?


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
How do you know you have low stomach acid? My stool sample showed that I have a more alkaline pH, and I'm assuming that means from my stomach, but I don't know. Is the Betaine an enzyme?

I started having lots of problems with heartburn, and I tried taking some apple cider vinegar in water after meals and it helped, so I knew my stomach acid was low. Betaine HCL makes up for the low stomach acid. If you feel like you have indigestion or heartburn after meals, try taking a tbsp. of ACV in water. If that helps, you have low stomach acid. If it makes things worse, you probably have too much stomach acid. Or if taking baking soda in water when you have heartburn helps, that means you have too much stomach acid.


----------



## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
I started having lots of problems with heartburn, and I tried taking some apple cider vinegar in water after meals and it helped, so I knew my stomach acid was low. Betaine HCL makes up for the low stomach acid. If you feel like you have indigestion or heartburn after meals, try taking a tbsp. of ACV in water. If that helps, you have low stomach acid. If it makes things worse, you probably have too much stomach acid. Or if taking baking soda in water when you have heartburn helps, that means you have too much stomach acid.

Oh okay! Thanks







I don't have indigestion or heartburn problems, so I guess I'm all set!


----------



## Janelovesmax (Feb 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cello* 
Specific Carbohydrates Diet. Other than that I don't know much about it, as I am trying to read on FailSafe now. One things at a time for my little brain









NAET: http://www.naet.com/

My DH had his first NAET removal this week, and it is an AP, so who knows, it may or may not work. I just am a bit confused how an AP, DC, ND, etc could do it. If you're interested I'll keep you posted on what happens.

How is the body ecology diet coming? I looked at the site, and it seems to incorporate many of the NT ideas, but very stringent the carb aspect, like NO the avocados surprised me, etc. Are you following it, or just reading up on it?

Thank you so much for answering.

BED is coming ok. I slip once in the while. It's difficult for me, but in general I do pretty well. I try to combine meats with veggies only and I eat fermented veggies and Kefir.
I was surprised about Avocado as well, but I was asking around and heard that avocados are ok.
Actually at the back of Body Ecology Book, there is side note from Sally Fallon praising the book, yes they are on the same page (on most things)

Do you make your own fermented veggies or you buy them? If you buy them, then where??? I need a good unpasteurized source...


----------



## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
And doctors have been telling me that dd doesn't have leaky gut, because one doesn't just "get it." It develops over time. She has never been exposed to any antibiotics or anything. She was naturally born at home, has only ever had BM and the occasional homeopathic remedy. So how could she have leaky gut?

during birth, baby is supposed to get an "initiation" dose of flora from mama, which then colonize her. it sounds like your flora was already out of balance during pregnancy (eczema sx, etc.), so maybe your dd didn't get the flora she needed to start her off right (=leaky gut). this is not to say that your other suppositions (current effects of your leaky gut) are off base. i understand your concerns, for us it was better to continue and dd1 nursed til nearly 5.

as to recap: lots of food intolerances (prob mostly IgG) in dd1, ?similar to what your dd is experiencing (fussy/agitated, gassy, mucus poop, target sign, frequent/lingering colds, no sleep unless latched...). exacerbated by vaxing until 15mos. did TED for a few weeks at 4.5 mos, then she started to get worse, as she started to react to those foods too, since that was all i was eating. i ate no dairy/soy for 2 yrs. and tried to avoid too much exposure to any one food type (lots of rotation). dx with leaky gut/candida, started working on that, did candida diet/herbs/probiotics/enzymes and NAET for me and dd1. she still has eczema, that came on at 18mos, nearly cleared, flared when i got her hepA vaxed at 2.5 (for a trip to india) and hasn't gone since, waxes and wanes. tried CST, one course of homeopathic remedy (lycopodium). currently try to rotate foods and limit wheat/dairy/soy. not totally eliminating them, because of difficulty with a 5yo in the mainstream world, and seeing that sometimes total elimination leads to increased reaction. supplement with probiotics, CLO/omega3, dd1 seeing acupuncturist since july and taking chinese herbs with slow improvement. going to try another homeopathic remedy soon. held off because too many experiments at once leads to not knowing what's helping.

for myself, react to dairy by increasing other seasonal/pet/dust allergies (total allergic load), and chronic mild sinus stuff. probably have yeast going on again, had probs as a baby like ours do: "allergic" to mama's milk, so weaned at 2 weeks, couldn't tolerate milk based formula or goat's milk, given soy formula, frequent ear infections (with a shot in the butt that i can remember), lots of excruciating gas pain as a kid (drank milk daily after i "grew out of" my allergy to it... who decided THAT???). not too strict with anything for myself, but rotate/supplement (probiotics, omega3, need to try glutamine). hindsight of my mother makes me think she had leaky gut (chronic fatigue in her 50's, ?manic depressive---> suicide, lots of cravings for dairy and sweets), and my aunt has a lot of health probs, treated conventionally with lots of meds.

dd2 has benefitted from dd1's experiences. homebirth, mama better varied diet in pregnancy and probably better gut condition (if not great), probiotics started early (?3wks). limit dairy/wheat/soy for her too, and she's a snot factory who gets mild sandpapery rashes, so there's some allergy. refluxy as a newborn. 2 rounds of antibiotics: for pneumonia at 3mos (very scary, hospitalized overnight. sometimes abx are really great!!!), and one bad ear infection (both ears) when our homeopath recommended it (which i would not do if i had it to do over again).

i know how hard it is to decide whether to wean. we know how valuable all the components of bm are, and how babies with allergies do much better on mama's milk (some don't even get the allergies until a few mos after weaning), but your situation is tough since you're so ill and depleted currently, and you know you are passing on some things that make it worse for your dd (along with all the good things), and it's harder to heal while bfing.








sorry i can't offer more help.


----------



## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

i've been wondering something:

sometimes an indiction of an allergy is NOT liking a certain food. other times an indication is loving, craving, getting high on (beta endorphins), eating nothing BUT a certain food.

anyone know why? is one IgE and the other IgG? or something?

the craving thing makes it very hard to know when craving is a sign of a nutrient depletion (=good to eat the food) vs a sign of allergy (= bad to eat it).

thoughts anyone?


----------



## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *formerluddite* 
during birth, baby is supposed to get an "initiation" dose of flora from mama, which then colonize her. it sounds like your flora was already out of balance during pregnancy (eczema sx, etc.), so maybe your dd didn't get the flora she needed to start her off right (=leaky gut). this is not to say that your other suppositions (current effects of your leaky gut) are off base. i understand your concerns, for us it was better to continue and dd1 nursed til nearly 5.

as to recap: lots of food intolerances (prob mostly IgG) in dd1, ?similar to what your dd is experiencing (fussy/agitated, gassy, mucus poop, target sign, frequent/lingering colds, no sleep unless latched...). exacerbated by vaxing until 15mos. did TED for a few weeks at 4.5 mos, then she started to get worse, as she started to react to those foods too, since that was all i was eating. i ate no dairy/soy for 2 yrs. and tried to avoid too much exposure to any one food type (lots of rotation). dx with leaky gut/candida, started working on that, did candida diet/herbs/probiotics/enzymes and NAET for me and dd1. she still has eczema, that came on at 18mos, nearly cleared, flared when i got her hepA vaxed at 2.5 (for a trip to india) and hasn't gone since, waxes and wanes. tried CST, one course of homeopathic remedy (lycopodium). currently try to rotate foods and limit wheat/dairy/soy. not totally eliminating them, because of difficulty with a 5yo in the mainstream world, and seeing that sometimes total elimination leads to increased reaction. supplement with probiotics, CLO/omega3, dd1 seeing acupuncturist since july and taking chinese herbs with slow improvement. going to try another homeopathic remedy soon. held off because too many experiments at once leads to not knowing what's helping.

for myself, react to dairy by increasing other seasonal/pet/dust allergies (total allergic load), and chronic mild sinus stuff. probably have yeast going on again, had probs as a baby like ours do: "allergic" to mama's milk, so weaned at 2 weeks, couldn't tolerate milk based formula or goat's milk, given soy formula, frequent ear infections (with a shot in the butt that i can remember), lots of excruciating gas pain as a kid (drank milk daily after i "grew out of" my allergy to it... who decided THAT???). not too strict with anything for myself, but rotate/supplement (probiotics, omega3, need to try glutamine). hindsight of my mother makes me think she had leaky gut (chronic fatigue in her 50's, ?manic depressive---> suicide, lots of cravings for dairy and sweets), and my aunt has a lot of health probs, treated conventionally with lots of meds.

dd2 has benefitted from dd1's experiences. homebirth, mama better varied diet in pregnancy and probably better gut condition (if not great), probiotics started early (?3wks). limit dairy/wheat/soy for her too, and she's a snot factory who gets mild sandpapery rashes, so there's some allergy. refluxy as a newborn. 2 rounds of antibiotics: for pneumonia at 3mos (very scary, hospitalized overnight. sometimes abx are really great!!!), and one bad ear infection (both ears) when our homeopath recommended it (which i would not do if i had it to do over again).

i know how hard it is to decide whether to wean. we know how valuable all the components of bm are, and how babies with allergies do much better on mama's milk (some don't even get the allergies until a few mos after weaning), but your situation is tough since you're so ill and depleted currently, and you know you are passing on some things that make it worse for your dd (along with all the good things), and it's harder to heal while bfing.








sorry i can't offer more help.


Thanks for your story. It's nice to know where everyone is coming from









I don't want to wean dd, but there are times I really do wonder if because of my BM I am causing her lifelong problems, even though she is also getting good stuff in it too...It's way past that point now, so I'm not even questioning it. Only when it comes to healing myself, and if I can't because I am breastfeeding, would I have to consider it.

I do really wonder why all of my problems started when pregnant. Why could I eat anythign I wanted to before and was fine?!







: So confusing...

I haven't had wheat in almost a year. I really want to give it a go, but I'm afraid of how dd will react. If I have a little bit, am I setting her up for a bigger chance of allergies?

This is what I don't understand...if I totally avoid some foods and then we introduce them slowly after a LONG time, why wouldn't her body say, "Woah...what the heck is this?" and treat it as an allergen? You would think that if you had it more regularly, that the body would see it as an okay substance. Am I making any sense here?

Going to have my breakfast now...


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *formerluddite* 
i've been wondering something:

sometimes an indiction of an allergy is NOT liking a certain food. other times an indication is loving, craving, getting high on (beta endorphins), eating nothing BUT a certain food.

anyone know why? is one IgE and the other IgG? or something?

the craving thing makes it very hard to know when craving is a sign of a nutrient depletion (=good to eat the food) vs a sign of allergy (= bad to eat it).

thoughts anyone?


This is a good question and I don't have the answer








I crave chocolate everyday...it's my only craving now.

After about 2 months of my eliminating everything that turned up positive on my IgG test (dairy, soy, wheat, gluten, yeast, etc...) I stopped craving everything. It was weird. I don't really crave anything now either, except my beloved chocolate!

I don't have any IgE allergies.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 

And doctors have been telling me that dd doesn't have leaky gut, because one doesn't just "get it." It develops over time. She has never been exposed to any antibiotics or anything. She was naturally born at home, has only ever had BM and the occasional homeopathic remedy. So how could she have leaky gut? I honestly believe that her symptoms are caused by my BM. There are big, undigested proteins getting into my milk, some of which my body probably sees as allergens because I can't break down food properly. Her body isn't designed to break these down and I truly believe that is what is causing the mucus in her stools, the gas, the crankiness, etc.
.

Babies are born with leaky guts, and normally their guts close/become un-leaky as they get older. In your DD's case, she wouldn't have gotten the correct gut flora at birth, so her gut continues to be leaky. Continued exposure to things that irritate her gut/set off her immune system, whether things she reacts to or things that you react to, keeps her gut from healing. I think it's likely that your DD reacts to some foods as well as reacting to things you react to. That's the case with my DD, and she was also homebirthed with no vaxes, antibiotics, or OTC meds.


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## Cello (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Janelovesmax* 
Thank you so much for answering.

BED is coming ok. I slip once in the while. It's difficult for me, but in general I do pretty well. I try to combine meats with veggies only and I eat fermented veggies and Kefir.
I was surprised about Avocado as well, but I was asking around and heard that avocados are ok.
Actually at the back of Body Ecology Book, there is side note from Sally Fallon praising the book, yes they are on the same page (on most things)

Do you make your own fermented veggies or you buy them? If you buy them, then where??? I need a good unpasteurized source...

We have a local farm that makes some fermented veggies for sale, but they don't ship, so it is only a local supply. Sorry!

Do you do yogurt too, or just Kefir? I am curious because the Kefir tastes just like the soured yogurt drinks my mom used to make when I was younger.


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## Cello (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
This is a good question and I don't have the answer







I crave chocolate everyday...it's my only craving now.

After about 2 months of my eliminating everything that turned up positive on my IgG test (dairy, soy, wheat, gluten, yeast, etc...) I stopped craving everything. It was weird. I don't really crave anything now either, except my beloved chocolate!

I don't have any IgE allergies.

Don't you wish that craving was for broccoli and carrots?







:

I read on another forum that chocolate craving was a mineral deficiency of some sort...i just wished I remembered...oh well!


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
I do really wonder why all of my problems started when pregnant. Why could I eat anythign I wanted to before and was fine?!







: So confusing...

I haven't had wheat in almost a year. I really want to give it a go, but I'm afraid of how dd will react. If I have a little bit, am I setting her up for a bigger chance of allergies?

This is what I don't understand...if I totally avoid some foods and then we introduce them slowly after a LONG time, why wouldn't her body say, "Woah...what the heck is this?" and treat it as an allergen? You would think that if you had it more regularly, that the body would see it as an okay substance. Am I making any sense here?

Going to have my breakfast now...









Pregnancy is very hard on the body as it depletes your nutrients, causes all sorts of hormonal changes, and suppresses your immune system so it doesn't reject the baby. It's very common for people to start having health problems during or after pregnancy. My symptoms certainly got worse during and shortly after pregnancy.

I don't think it would hurt to do a wheat trial...but definitely use soaked/sprouted/sourdough grains. She'd probably have the best chance of tolerating wheat if you use it in rotation and only eat it every 4 or 5 days. Just keep in mind that gluten is really hard to digest and even if she tolerates it well, it might not be a good food for you to eat as far as healing goes.

She's not more likely to react to new foods because the body is designed to recognize new foods as foods and develop oral tolerance. Now when that process goes haywire, all sorts of things happen... There have been studies done on increasing tolerance to allergens by gradually increasing the dose, but I don't know how successful it would be if you just did it yourself. Not that I haven't considering doing that in the past...but for now we're just avoiding allergens and hoping DD grows out of them.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cello* 

I read on another forum that chocolate craving was a mineral deficiency of some sort...i just wished I remembered...oh well!

magnesium


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Thanks for your story. It's nice to know where everyone is coming from









I don't want to wean dd, but there are times I really do wonder if because of my BM I am causing her lifelong problems, even though she is also getting good stuff in it too...It's way past that point now, so I'm not even questioning it. Only when it comes to healing myself, and if I can't because I am breastfeeding, would I have to consider it.

I do really wonder why all of my problems started when pregnant. Why could I eat anythign I wanted to before and was fine?!







: So confusing...

I haven't had wheat in almost a year. I really want to give it a go, but I'm afraid of how dd will react. If I have a little bit, am I setting her up for a bigger chance of allergies?

This is what I don't understand...if I totally avoid some foods and then we introduce them slowly after a LONG time, why wouldn't her body say, "Woah...what the heck is this?" and treat it as an allergen? You would think that if you had it more regularly, that the body would see it as an okay substance. Am I making any sense here?

Going to have my breakfast now...









pregnancy sends your body into a state where your immune response is T2 dominant. also the same condition that is favored in atopic response. basically, your body has to shut down the "self" identification pathway in order to not expel the fetus. it's only the beginning of conflict with babes









Shifts in the TH1/TH2 Balance during Human Pregnancy Correlate with Apoptotic Changes

Authors: Reinhard G.; Noll A.; Schlebusch H.; Mallmann P.; Ruecker A.V.

Source: Biochemical and Biophysical Research Communications, Volume 245, Number 3, 28 April 1998, pp. 933-938(6)

Abstract:
An important prerequisite for a successful pregnancy is that the maternal immune system does not reject the fetus. Down-regulation of the T helper 1 (TH1) associated cellular immune response could therefore be essential. With flow cytometric techniques, we show on a single cell level that both CD4+ and CD8+ T cells from peripheral blood produce less TH1 cytokines (i.e. IFN-gamma and IL-2) and more TH2 cytokines (i.e. IL-4) during normal human pregnancy and shortly after delivery than during non-pregnancy. *The TH1/TH2 cytokine ratio in T cells of women during pregnancy and after delivery was significantly decreased. In contrast the TH1/TH2 ratio was elevated to near normal in women with recurrent spontaneous abortions, indicating a marked shift towards TH1 immunity.* Fas antigen (CD95) on T cells was significantly elevated during pregnancy and in the post-delivery phase whereas the intracellular expression of anti-apoptotic protein Bcl-2 remained unchanged. Nevertheless Fas-mediated apoptosis in T cells was markedly reduced during normal human pregnancy. *We hypothesize that TH1 cells undergo predominantly Fas-mediated apoptosis during pregnancy as has been shown in some TH2-prone diseases (e.g. SLE, HIV) where an elevated Fas expression on peripheral T cells is observed. This could explain the exacerbated occurrence of TH2-associated diseases in pregnancy.*

(apoptosis is a fancy word for programmed cell death)
(atopic diseases are classic indicators of TH2 dominance)


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## p1gg1e (Apr 3, 2004)

Two "quick" questions...I'm going to buy a yogurt maker. I want one with the individual jars as DD#1 has a dairy allergy...what ones do you like?

I want a maker because I'm lazy









Also has anyone read Brenda Watson's books?
http://www.brendawatson.com/

I love her probiotics and enzymes they have worked well for me


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Well, I'm pretty sure we think my low supply is due to 1) low caloric intake and 2) (this is the major red flag) that my progesterone levels are about what a pre-menpausal woman's would be at...waaaaay too low. And this is the dominant hormone of nursing mothers (I believe anyway...)

You see, the funny thing is, I never had any issues until I got pregnant. I was eating foods fine, only minor bloating and I wasn't "regular." I ate anything and everything I wanted to. It wasn't until my ND did an IgG test because of eczema I developed in pregnancy and I cut out all sorts of foods that came up positive, did all the real issues start. The further my diet has been restricted, the worse my symptoms have become







:

And doctors have been telling me that dd doesn't have leaky gut, because one doesn't just "get it." It develops over time. She has never been exposed to any antibiotics or anything. She was naturally born at home, has only ever had BM and the occasional homeopathic remedy. So how could she have leaky gut? I honestly believe that her symptoms are caused by my BM. There are big, undigested proteins getting into my milk, some of which my body probably sees as allergens because I can't break down food properly. Her body isn't designed to break these down and I truly believe that is what is causing the mucus in her stools, the gas, the crankiness, etc.

I could be way off base here, but that's what I think is happening. Whether or not she develops allergies because of this is another story. I'm praying that she won't. I want her to be able to eat normally!!

Does any of that make sense? I'm a little low on sleep here, so forgive me if I ramble...

I thought all babies had leaky gut, in that their intestines weren't fully sealed until they were at least 6 months old or older, which is why delaying solids is a good thing. JaneS, who sometimes posts here, has a bunch of info about it. Bifidus is supposed to help seal the gut in babies. Are you giving her probiotics?

I do think your dd is probably getting stuff from your bm that is not agreeing with her. Trouble is, what else can you give her? Another woman's bm whom you trust doesn't have leaky gut or allergies or any diseases would be ideal. After that, there really isn't an ideal supplement, since any other milk would be problematic for other reasons. That's why healing your own gut is the best thing you can do. You know that, of course.

What exactly are you eating right now? Are you doing a rotational diet? That can help with someone with a ton of allergies, which it sounds like you have. Have you had your intestinal flora tested, to see if you have parasites, yeast, etc? I think the Organic Acids Test is the most accurate for that -- it's rather expensive, not covered by most insurance, and (I think) requires collecting your pee for a while. But I think Jane did it and was helped by it.

Fermented foods can restore intestinal flora. Are there any you can have?


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
I don't want to wean dd, but there are times I really do wonder if because of my BM I am causing her lifelong problems, even though she is also getting good stuff in it too...It's way past that point now, so I'm not even questioning it. Only when it comes to healing myself, and if I can't because I am breastfeeding, would I have to consider it.

I think JaneS found that after weaning her ds (he was nearly 2 or just past 2 at the time), she was able to heal, but only because she had her amalgam fillings removed and began drinking kefir again, among other things. See the Healing the Gut Cheat Sheet -- I think she talks about it in one of the threads linked there.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

My story: I had yeast infections a lot throughout my adult life, and as a teenager had chronic sore throats which I now think were probably either allergies or yeast, but were treated repeatedly with antibitoics. In my mid twenties, I developed asthma, and as a result I was given two kinds of inhalers to use and some antihistamines to keepi it under control. I also had very irregular periods, and was diagnosed with polycystic ovarian syndrome when I was 30 years ol. When I was in my early 30s, I went on the birth control pill to regulate my wacky periods (mostly absent by then), and started having debilitating migraines, which kept coming even after I went off the pill.

To conceive ds, we used injectible fertility drugs, having tried herbs and acupuncture, low carb dieting, and clomid first.
I had a normal pregnancy, although I had "morning sickness" most of it. When ds was born, there was meconium in the amniotic fluid, so they suctioned him deeply to prevent aspiration.

Perhaps as a result, he had major thrush early on (diagnosed at his 2 week checkup) and was also very orally defensive and fussy. We treated the thrush with nystatin twice, then gentian violet twice, then grapfruit seed extract several times along with probiotics. It eventually went away. When he was two, I noticed that he would have alternating diarrhea and constipation, particularly if he ate grapes, almonds, or cinnamon.

He was always very sensitive to noise (can't stand powered things like vacuum cleaners), touch (seams, textures of food, etc), and movement (jumping, etc.) and his fine motor skills have always been a bit behind. He was never one of those kids who jumps into things, and was always a hanger back on the playground, watching the other kids but staying away from them. I found out about sensory integration disorder, and his behaviors and symptoms fit that, although mild compared with some kids.

I was sure that my leaky gut had started it all, because I ate a ton of almond butter, grapes, and stuff with cinnamon like homemade zucchini bread when I was pregnant. I started us on the Specific Carbohydrate diet in October of 2005, hoping to restore his gut flora. We were on it almost a year when we started adding things back in, partially out of frustration and partially because I felt that he wasn't getting enough to eat. He is now eating some grains in moderation, but we are still pretty much gluten free, and dairy is a problem for him as well.

I find that if I eat grains, I start to put on weight really fast. I am using some homeopathic things that are supposed to help with hormones, but not really with the gut. I need to talk to my naturopath about it, I guess. I was taking a homeopathic for yeast, but she says I don't need it anymore. She's kind of a medical intuitive, but I am having my doubts about her because she wants me to sleep train ds by giving him points for sleeping through the night and not nursing him at night. Kinda doesnt jive with me.


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## Janelovesmax (Feb 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cello* 
We have a local farm that makes some fermented veggies for sale, but they don't ship, so it is only a local supply. Sorry!

Do you do yogurt too, or just Kefir? I am curious because the Kefir tastes just like the soured yogurt drinks my mom used to make when I was younger.

I do cow's milk based Kefir and I love it.

Actually my co-worker who is a health nut in a good way brought me young coconut kefir and it was yummy.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
JaneS - that mystery study you asked about... i think i saw it referenced VERBATIM in another article on another website; the article was dated 1989. beyond that, i can't find anything. and i thought about asking the article's author what his source was but the guy doesn't have an email address. (who publishes on the internet and doesn't have an email address?)

Guy? I thought it was this article by Aileen Murray from Natren: http://www.natren.com/pages/baby.html

I will write to them, thanks!


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
magnesium

Yea, I knew that too, but I think I just crave chocolate because I love it so much and my diet lacked any sugar or chocolate for months. Now that I can have a little bit, I crave it even more. I have to have my nightly chocolate fix or I can't sleep







: (you'd think it would keep me up, being 80% dark and all..







)

I take a supplement with mag. and it's over 100% the RDA. I got some Aussie sea minerals the other day and started taking that too, not realizing that it also has over 100% the RDA rec. Well, wouldn't you know that the extra magnesium totally gave me diarrhea (sorry TMI), so I stopped taking it and all is well again...

So I doubt that I'm magnesium deficient, but I could be wrong!


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Oh, wanted to mention that I got dd's Natren dairy free bifidus in the mail and wouldn't you know, on the label it says "may contain traces of dairy and soy" What the heck???!! I didn't see that on their website, but I wasn't looking too closely because I assumed that dairy-free meant dairy-free. Ugh...

SO I called and they said she shouldn't react to it, but if she did I could get my money back. Great...

I've been giving it to her for two days and no reaction yet...


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## Rachel J. (Oct 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *formerluddite* 
i've been wondering something:

sometimes an indiction of an allergy is NOT liking a certain food. other times an indication is loving, craving, getting high on (beta endorphins), eating nothing BUT a certain food.

anyone know why? is one IgE and the other IgG? or something?

the craving thing makes it very hard to know when craving is a sign of a nutrient depletion (=good to eat the food) vs a sign of allergy (= bad to eat it).

thoughts anyone?

I don't know too much about the science behind cravings, I just know that mine aren't trustworthy







If I followed most of my cravings I'd be eating sugar, cereal/crackers, dairy, and chocolate all the time.

I wonder about allergies or sensitivities in ds1 because most of what he eats is wheat and dairy based.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Babies are born with leaky guts, and normally their guts close/become un-leaky as they get older. In your DD's case, she wouldn't have gotten the correct gut flora at birth, so her gut continues to be leaky. Continued exposure to things that irritate her gut/set off her immune system, whether things she reacts to or things that you react to, keeps her gut from healing. I think it's likely that your DD reacts to some foods as well as reacting to things you react to. That's the case with my DD, and she was also homebirthed with no vaxes, antibiotics, or OTC meds.

See, this confuses me too. Apparently I have plenty of bifidobacterium, but no L. species in my gut. So if I baby's gut is mostly bifidus, isn't she in pretty good shape?


----------



## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
pregnancy sends your body into a state where your immune response is T2 dominant. also the same condition that is favored in atopic response. basically, your body has to shut down the "self" identification pathway in order to not expel the fetus. it's only the beginning of conflict with babes









Shifts in the TH1/TH2 Balance during Human Pregnancy Correlate with Apoptotic Changes

Authors: Reinhard G.; Noll A.; Schlebusch H.; Mallmann P.; Ruecker A.V.

Source: Biochemical and Biophysical Research Communications, Volume 245, Number 3, 28 April 1998, pp. 933-938(6)

Abstract:
An important prerequisite for a successful pregnancy is that the maternal immune system does not reject the fetus. Down-regulation of the T helper 1 (TH1) associated cellular immune response could therefore be essential. With flow cytometric techniques, we show on a single cell level that both CD4+ and CD8+ T cells from peripheral blood produce less TH1 cytokines (i.e. IFN-gamma and IL-2) and more TH2 cytokines (i.e. IL-4) during normal human pregnancy and shortly after delivery than during non-pregnancy. *The TH1/TH2 cytokine ratio in T cells of women during pregnancy and after delivery was significantly decreased. In contrast the TH1/TH2 ratio was elevated to near normal in women with recurrent spontaneous abortions, indicating a marked shift towards TH1 immunity.* Fas antigen (CD95) on T cells was significantly elevated during pregnancy and in the post-delivery phase whereas the intracellular expression of anti-apoptotic protein Bcl-2 remained unchanged. Nevertheless Fas-mediated apoptosis in T cells was markedly reduced during normal human pregnancy. *We hypothesize that TH1 cells undergo predominantly Fas-mediated apoptosis during pregnancy as has been shown in some TH2-prone diseases (e.g. SLE, HIV) where an elevated Fas expression on peripheral T cells is observed. This could explain the exacerbated occurrence of TH2-associated diseases in pregnancy.*

(apoptosis is a fancy word for programmed cell death)
(atopic diseases are classic indicators of TH2 dominance)

Thanks for that...I only understood about 1/4 of it though







: So I'm assuming that it will get better as time goes on? I sure hope so!


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *p1gg1e* 
Two "quick" questions...I'm going to buy a yogurt maker. I want one with the individual jars as DD#1 has a dairy allergy...what ones do you like?

I want a maker because I'm lazy









Also has anyone read Brenda Watson's books?
http://www.brendawatson.com/

I love her probiotics and enzymes they have worked well for me









From my searches on past posts, I decided to get this one. I heard good things about it and I loved the fact that the jars are glass. Haven't tried it yet though, as it's still being shipping







but I'm hoping it will be as good as everyone says!


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
I thought all babies had leaky gut, in that their intestines weren't fully sealed until they were at least 6 months old or older, which is why delaying solids is a good thing. JaneS, who sometimes posts here, has a bunch of info about it. Bifidus is supposed to help seal the gut in babies. Are you giving her probiotics?

I do think your dd is probably getting stuff from your bm that is not agreeing with her. Trouble is, what else can you give her? Another woman's bm whom you trust doesn't have leaky gut or allergies or any diseases would be ideal. After that, there really isn't an ideal supplement, since any other milk would be problematic for other reasons. That's why healing your own gut is the best thing you can do. You know that, of course.

What exactly are you eating right now? Are you doing a rotational diet? That can help with someone with a ton of allergies, which it sounds like you have. Have you had your intestinal flora tested, to see if you have parasites, yeast, etc? I think the Organic Acids Test is the most accurate for that -- it's rather expensive, not covered by most insurance, and (I think) requires collecting your pee for a while. But I think Jane did it and was helped by it.

Fermented foods can restore intestinal flora. Are there any you can have?


I have a source of donor milk (my ND) who eats a whole foods, organic diet. She doesn't eat meat, but consumes some dairy and wheat. So she has offered many times, but I wasn't sure about the whole dairy/wheat thing. It would be interesting to see if dd could tolerate milk from a non-leaky gut person though









I did have a stool sample done that showed I have no Lactobacillus species in my gut, but plenty of bifidobacterium. No signs of pathenogenic bacterias or yeast either. But I did the amino acid test and will find out the results on Tuesday.

I've given dd probiotics since she was about 6 weeks old, but not regularly







: as the ones we got from the ND kept starting to smell bad after only 2 weeks. Since she didn't take a bottle at all, it was nearly impossible to get them into her when she was younger. She was constantly screaming and had to be held a certain way to stay happy, etc. that it seemed like another daunting task to get her to take them. Now that she's older, I just got the Natren bifidus powder and am giving her 2 teaspoons a day (I never realized how BIG a teaspoon of powder was until I had to get it in a baby







) a day in some water with a syringe. She wouldn't drink it from a bottle...

For her first 4 months, I only ate organic chicken, peas, carrots, kale, basmati rice, yukon gold potatoes, quinoa and sunflower seed butter. Oh, and olive oil.

Now I can't have the chicken, but I eat buffalo, ostrich (which I react to sometimes depending on the brand), lamb, salmon, haddock and rotate these. Everyday I have some type of rice product though. Other things I have added are organic dark chocolate







: (only 4 squares a night though!), almond butter occasionally, rice dream bars (I know, I know...they contain a trace amount of gluten but I just HAD to have a sweet!), eggs (only every three days), chicken sausage, squash, coconut oil, snap peas, green beans, beets, and there are a couple other things I am forgetting.

Sometimes I feel like the fact that I can't eat some things hinders my healing process. I am going to try to find an alternative nutritionist who can revamp my diet.


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## p1gg1e (Apr 3, 2004)

Thanks!!


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## Rachel J. (Oct 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
pregnancy sends your body into a state where your immune response is T2 dominant. also the same condition that is favored in atopic response. basically, your body has to shut down the "self" identification pathway in order to not expel the fetus. it's only the beginning of conflict with babes









I guess that explains why my eczema ran rampant during my pregnancy and cleared up so nicely when I got steroid shots for ds2's lungs. It returned (of course) and is almost as bad as it was during my pregnancy. I guess that's an indication that my immune response is skewed, more so than before my pregnancy. I guess this partly explains why I felt healthier before I started getting pregnant even though I was much less health conscious than I am now.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rachel J.* 
I guess that explains why my eczema ran rampant during my pregnancy and cleared up so nicely when I got steroid shots for ds2's lungs. It returned (of course) and is almost as bad as it was during my pregnancy. I guess that's an indication that my immune response is skewed, more so than before my pregnancy. I guess this partly explains why I felt healthier before I started getting pregnant even though I was much less health conscious than I am now.

Sounds exactly like me...!!


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
I just got the Natren bifidus powder and am giving her 2 teaspoons a day (I never realized how BIG a teaspoon of powder was until I had to get it in a baby







) a day in some water with a syringe. She wouldn't drink it from a bottle...

For her first 4 months, I only ate organic chicken, peas, carrots, kale, basmati rice, yukon gold potatoes, quinoa and sunflower seed butter. Oh, and olive oil.

Now I can't have the chicken, but I eat buffalo, ostrich (which I react to sometimes depending on the brand), lamb, salmon, haddock and rotate these. Everyday I have some type of rice product though. Other things I have added are organic dark chocolate







: (only 4 squares a night though!), almond butter occasionally, rice dream bars (I know, I know...they contain a trace amount of gluten but I just HAD to have a sweet!), eggs (only every three days), chicken sausage, squash, coconut oil, snap peas, green beans, beets, and there are a couple other things I am forgetting.

Sometimes I feel like the fact that I can't eat some things hinders my healing process. I am going to try to find an alternative nutritionist who can revamp my diet.

i was successful getting them into dd2 by making a paste/slurry and spoon feeding it, a small amount 3-4x/day whjiloe she was on abx, and `3x/wk otherwise.

where do you get ostrich? is it easy to prepare? how's it taste: would a picky 5yo try it?

other seeds/grains to try: teff, amaranth, millet, buckwheat (?technicnally a fruit), pumpkin seeds, garbanzo beans (they make flour out of this, too).
fruits: odd/exotics (dragonfruit-just found some dried at TJ's), guava, papaya, goji berries.
vegi's: rutabaga, parsnips (may be too closely related to carrots, if they bother you/dd), turnips, asparagas, artichoke.
meat/seafood: rabbit, calamari, octopus, clams.

these are ideas based on what we rotate through, but basically anything you can think of that you have rarely ever eaten before, and certainly never ate regularly. i know some things are hard to find or $$$.

for calories, can you increase fats/oils? extra CLO, and such? any "odd" oils, exotics to try? (obviously not tree nuts, but i bet there are some other oils out there... ?yak butter).

as to why pregnancy started things, besides what other have said before, your intestinal transport slows down (so things are there to be absorbed longer and can irritate longer), and the pH changes (?less acidic), so gut flora changes, chemical reactions (=enzymes) change, ...


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

too bad we can't find a nice case of measles or chicken pox for you to catch, to help bump back into T1 immunity.


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

I've been contemplating posting a good news update on us, but have been hesitant for fear of jinxing us. So, I'll take your invite for stories as a sign and think positive thoughts while I post. I'm going to post our update first and then my "story" since it is long.

Update - the past few days, for many reasons, I have just needed a break. And I have eaten several seriously banned foods that I'm not even going to admit to here for fear of serious flaming







: (which I deserve, by the way). But here's the thing - NO BAD REACTIONS!!!!!!!! I kept waiting for the screaming night or the yak. But, nope. It hasn't come. And so, after my revelation, I've tested banned but not bad things, like 24 hour SCD yogurt, and so far, so good. I really need to give that one another 24-48 hours to see what it does to her poop, but she did go today, so I'm really hopeful. I'm also reserving judgment because it could be that symptoms are going to manifest themselves in other ways, but I am really hopeful at this point that we are really making (or have made) progress.

Our story - I came to these boards when my DD was about 6 - 8 weeks old, looking for some answers to my DD's problems - pretty severe yakking (sometimes projectile, sometimes not but chunky and smelly, always requiring clothes changes!), very infrequent and not normal breastfed bms (like every 6 - 8 days, no seeds, usually slimy and sometimes green), and clear discomfort - ranging from just needing to be held and kind of puny to 2 and 3 hour screaming sessions. The first thing I did was cut out dairy, and I thought that was going to be the end of me! After a week, things were much improved, but there were still clearly "bad" times, so I knew other foods had to be triggering it. So, then I went on a total elimination diet (followed the Dr. Sears one), while reading on these boards and being completely overwhelmed by all the info. But the TED made such a difference in our lives - DD was happy and no yak! My laundry load each week was reduced by at least half. I kept reading here about SCD and "healing" the gut, but I wasn't convinced I had a leaky gut at this point. However, I decided that I could either stay on this TED diet and potentially not heal (if I needed healing) or I could go ahead and do SCD, which would be harder than just the traditional TED for me, but would enable us to heal while we avoided trigger foods. So, I started SCD a few weeks later. The first 2 weeks were awful - I felt bipolar. I went from feeling awesome to feeling agitated and completely out of it. I think it was the emotional adjustment and die-off. But DD was great, and I felt great when I was on the good end of things, so I stuck with it. I eventually added probiotics for both of us, and we ventured into new foods, sticking completely to SCD, but with no dairy or eggs (both of which are clear nos for DD). I stuck with this for about 4 months, and things were fine when I didn't eat any offending foods, but bad when I did. So, I wasn't feeling very enthused that we were "healing" so much as just avoiding. I decided then around the holidays that I needed to have a break from the obsession, and ventured out into eating some SCD banned things but things that I knew weren't trigger foods for DD (like sweet potatoes, rice, etc). I've bounced around from strict SCD to modified to FAILSAFE, and have now landed on a diet of no dairy, gluten, eggs, no high amine or salicylates, and no high sulphur foods, and am slowly implementing a rotational diet with what I can eat so that I only get each food or related food once every 4 days.

As my DD has been starting solids, I'm seriously strict with her foods - she is SCD compliant with only "low" or "moderate" amine and salicylate foods, no dairy, no eggs, and no high sulphur foods. She has had two full blow eczema reactions, and I suspect both to were reactions to high sulphur foods. She was on the low end for iron a few weeks ago, so I've added in beef and chicken livers to her food rotation (4 days there, too).

So, what I've learned is that this is a journey, and an individual one at that. What works for one doesn't necessarily work for others. So, you have to read, plan, and test. And then regroup once you know how it went and go at it again. It has been a very hard journey, and I have felt emotionally outcast from society at times for not being able to eat (I'm from the South, where we do everything around food) with others, it has been a pain in the buttocks to spend so much time cooking and planning and taking my food everywhere, and I have felt at times like I'm neglecting my kids to be online reading and researching all the time. But I must admit that I feel better (physically) than I ever have, look better, and have more energy (even without caffeine, chocolate or much sleep!). I also have dropped every pound of baby weight plus some. On the down side, I still feel overwhelmed, and while DD is better, she's not as good as I'd like. She still isn't growing as much as I'd like (height more so than weight). Along the way we had allergy testing done with her (which showed nothing) and our ped diagnosed DD as failure to thrive (I was devastated). We went to see a pediatric GI, and that was a visit I could rant about for hours, but in the end, he isn't too concerned and, quite frankly, I don't think he knew what to do with a momma who wasn't going to take a bottle of pills and complacently do what he said. He looked like I'd grown a second head when I handed him my 60 page typed food log. So, our visit ended with him telling me to keep doing what I was doing and bring her back in a month to check her weight. We've also done chirorpractic for her, and I'm pursing a lead on a holistic nutritionist who is studying CST. And, if you're still reading at this point, well, thanks for listening to my rambling! I often wonder where we would be if I hadn't found this incredible knowledge source of all you mommas, and I am very thankful for all I've learned here.


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## Rachel J. (Oct 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *formerluddite* 
too bad we can't find a nice case of measles or chicken pox for you to catch, to help bump back into T1 immunity.

Hmm, maybe a little exposure to chicken pox would help? I've already had them but haven't been exposed in so long I'm probably due a natural booster now anyway. Is there any possibility that the lack of these viruses floating around contributes to the T1-T2 skewing (in addition to the vaxes) and thus the increase in eczema, allergies, etc.? Makes me even more angry with myself for allowing ds1 to get the unnecessary chickenpox vax. Maybe a little case would help with the awful eczema on his bum/thighs/back. At least they're recommending a second shot for full chickenpox immunity. I'll feel good about not giving him that one.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Guy? I thought it was this article by Aileen Murray from Natren: http://www.natren.com/pages/baby.html

I will write to them, thanks!

http://www.garynull.com/documents/Ar...y_Bacteria.htm

Friendly Bacteria -- Lactobacillus acidophilus & Bifido bacterium -- Supplement to The Art of Getting Well

Sources are given in references.

Authors of contributions\quotations are alphabetically arranged; major author, if any, is underlined.
John M. Baron, D.O., Luc De Schepper, M.D., Ph.D., C.A., Gerald Domingue, M.D., Brad Everett, Howard Hughes, William H. Lee, R.Ph., Ph.D., Lida Mattman, Ph.D., Ed McCabe, Natasha Trenev, Dr. Ken Rifkin Ray C. Wunderlich, Jr., M.D./Responsible editor/writer Anthony di Fabio.

Copyright 1989

All rights reserved by the The Roger Wyburn-Mason and Jack M.Blount Foundation for Eradication of Rheumatoid Disease

AKA The Arthritis Trust of America,
7111 Sweetgum Road, Suite A, Fairview, TN 37062-9384

Scroll down to the section:
Breast-feeding Alone May Not be Enough

Breast-feeding alone does not seem to be sufficient to introduce bifidobacteria into the infant's colon. In a University of Pennsylvania Hospital study it was found that of 61 urban breast-fed babies, only 20% had an adequate number of bifidobacteria present. A similar study conducted at a suburban hospital found 66% of the breast-fed babies tested had large numbers of bifidobacteria.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

i started browsing when ds was 11 months old - he had a mild case of eczema that came and went... (in hindsight, he also had allergic-mediated ear "infections"; maybe those moments of gasiness at bedtime were a sign of digestive problems but they didn't happen often and they weren't accompanied with traditional colicky screaming). i didn't have digestive issues except if i had lots of milk as in a latte or cappucino. i did have mild chronic postnasal drip.

when he was a few weeks past the 1 yr mark, he got rotavirus (and i had mild cramping). we ended up spending 5 days eating chicken soup (from a can) and applesauce. but the eczema cleared up (almost) completely. so then i made the decision for him to go dairy-free. by the end of the following week, his skin was just peachy. a few teeny tiny spots of redness and roughness that cleared up after i went dairy-free a few weeks later.

i decided to enlist our local ND and test for leaky gut. initially on ds until i found it meant catching pee for 6 hours. and the day i went to pick up the kit, i had hives for the first time ever - so the ND had me do the test. did the test, sent in the sample. got hit with a MAJOR MAJOR sinus infection, around the time i had been doing my own version of the SCD intro diet. wheni saw the doc for the sinus infection, i asked about allergy and he said that the infection did look to have some eosinophilic response to it (read: yes it could have been an allergic reaction). so i did a course of antibiotics with a 1 pill diflucan chaser.

from there, i did a bit of a candida-type diet with some elements from SCD as well. when the results from the leaky gut test came back positive for leaky gut, negative for malabsorption, i started Intestinew then switched to Glutagenics + UltraFlora DF Plus + EPO. dairy-free cleared up the postnasal drip.

for ds, he doesn't get dairy at all at daycare (that is the hardest part of this whole thing - daycare). it's a vegetarian nutfree center and they only allow packaged snacks. so i hunted down a bunch of acceptable packaged snacks and i send his snacks. we don't eat much wheat but he gets whatever they give at school during lunch (e.g., macaroni, rolls, etc.). we eat pretty high protein, high fiber, dense meals at home. his latest favorite snack is the cherry pie larabar.

ds does have some issues with yeast diaper rashes but that is controllable with probiotics, limiting dried fruit (sadly, he just loves those raisins), and sprinkling probiotics on his behind. [a few weeks ago, i pulled out the probiotics from the fridge for oral use. he started saying something like "penis sprinkle eat" coz he remembered the other bottle upstairs. we immediately taught him the word "probiotic".]

i have succeeded in getting him to take probiotic powder off the spoon (he thinks it is funny when he coughs because he inhaled at the wrong time). he gets the occasional shot of Blue ice cinnamon CLO and always asks for more. he loves bone broth, most meat (especially ham, sausages, venison, chicken, salmon, but not the grassfed beef). i cannot get him to drink kefir. he loves helping make smoothies but will not drink them himself. thankfully, he will eat most of what i put in front of him.

now i'm trying to get my vitamins and minerals balanced. i am an intuitive eater, so when i want chocolate, i eat chocolate.







but i don't want it very often (chocolate is loaded with antioxidants and other redeeming qualities beyond magnesium. if you feel guilty about it, get some cacao nibs for the raw stuff without the added sugar and cocoa butter). otherwise, i forage pretty broadly - i'm using the "Body Clutter" menus from http://savingdinner.com -- i found that having someone else decide what i was going to eat relieved the stress of "what are we going to eat?" AND she provides enough variety that it is almost like eating on a rotation diet.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
I think JaneS found that after weaning her ds (he was nearly 2 or just past 2 at the time), she was able to heal, but only because she had her amalgam fillings removed and began drinking kefir again, among other things. See the Healing the Gut Cheat Sheet -- I think she talks about it in one of the threads linked there.

Yes, but DS got worse. I should have stuck with BF'ing him and did the same things I did: enzymes with and between meals, kefir, TF diet. Oh well if only we could turn back the clock and compare...


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Oh, wanted to mention that I got dd's Natren dairy free bifidus in the mail and wouldn't you know, on the label it says "may contain traces of dairy and soy" What the heck???!! I didn't see that on their website, but I wasn't looking too closely because I assumed that dairy-free meant dairy-free. Ugh...

SO I called and they said she shouldn't react to it, but if she did I could get my money back. Great...

I've been giving it to her for two days and no reaction yet...

That is maddening... I suspect it's because of the standard industry practices thing. That since it is maybe produced in the same facility as dairy? Honestly I'd only be concerned if you have an anaphylactic allergy. I remember from the "How Not to Have An Allergic Child" thread that our resident scientist Insider said that food proteins can hang around a mamas body for a long time and be enough to cause allergies (if immune system is broached) even if she doesn't eat the food while pg/bf. So it's really all about the defense!

I am reading an excellent book _Digestive Wellness for Children_ and she (Dr. Lipski) says that supplementing with dairy probiotics will help digest dairy. If they are tolerated.

http://www.digestivewellnessforchildren.com/

I think you just have to do a trial and error unfortunately, with everything!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
This is what I don't understand...if I totally avoid some foods and then we introduce them slowly after a LONG time, why wouldn't her body say, "Woah...what the heck is this?" and treat it as an allergen? You would think that if you had it more regularly, that the body would see it as an okay substance. Am I making any sense here?

There is debate about this. I remember reading specifically that wheat introduced earlier rather than later set up the body to recognize it as okay.

I think there is just so much that is unknown about the babe's immune system. That reminds me, I need to find that link to the discussion MT had with top immunologists on BMJ Rapid Response where they admit they know nothing about how an infant's immune system works...


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

1. Has anybody listen to a CD "The Benefits of a Probiotic Diet" from Body Ecology? One of the chapter is "Babies born with a Leaky gut" and I was wondering if it was worth a purchase.

2. I would like your opinion of SCD recipe books. It seems my choices are:
"Adventure in the Family Kitchen"
"Recipes for the SCD: The grain free, dairy free, sugar free
solution to IBD, Celiac Disease, Autism, cystic Fabrosis and
other... conditions"
"Eat Well, Feel Well"
"Grain Free Gourmet"
"Lucy's SCD Cookbook"
"Nourishing Tradition"

If the recipe contains honey, dates, coconut, apples or other sweet fruits, I have to omit or substitute with pears. My kids will break out from too much ripe banana or carrots as well. So, I am looking for recipes that uses a lot of green veggies and herbs/spices.

3. Has anybody treid detox such as colon cleanse, parasite flush, liver flush, etc. while you are on the SCD?

4. Where do I start, if I want to make Kifer or Combucha? Which one is a fool proof method? Or should I read "Bacteria for Breackfast"?

Thanks!

Greencat


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## elisabethmelner (Jun 2, 2006)

I put my 2 year old son on the 1st stage of Breaking the Vicious Cycle diet in order to heal his leaky gut. After two days of being on it, his poop went from runny w/ undigested food to harder extremely dark (almost black) poop. This has been going on for about 1 1/2 weeks. Before the diet, he was pooping 3-5 times a day and it was always a nasty blowout with food particles still present. He now poops this dark, black poop about once a day.

Any thoughts on why his poop has changed so drastically? Should I be concerned? Have others experienced this same change when trying to heal the gut? Another bit of info., he is on a muti vitamin that has iron in it, which I hear can also turn your stools black. He started taking the vitamins the same time he started the diet. Also, he's been eating quite a bit of homemade gelatin w/ grape juice, which is quite dark. Not sure if this would affect the stool color though.

Please share your insights with me! Thanks!


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

:







:







:







:







:







:

I am so depressed. We failed the raw goat's milk trial







I had 3 oz. and she was up ALL night long. I didn't sleep because she didn't sleep...she's super crabby today because of not sleeping, but won't take a nap...

I was so optimistic about the raw goat's milk. I really was. I bought a yogurt maker too. Would raw goat's milk yogurt have a better reaction? I don't know if I can take another night like last night.

I was really, really hoping this would be something I could add to my diet.

I AM SO SICK OF THIS. I feel like I'm at the point where I want to give up because I don't see any sign of this getting better. I can't take another year of it. I feel like I have no right to complain because plenty of you have been doing this a heck of a lot longer, but you must be stronger than us. I just want her to eat normally.

I did another thing that was "bad." She was having more and more tantrums over not being able to get our food. I steamed some organic carrots really, really well. Cut them into tiny little pieces (people on MDC seem to be against pureed foods, so I went this route) and let her go at it. She didn't really seem all that impressed and after about 3-4 tiny pieces that she got in her mouth, she decided it would be much more fun to just mush it around the tray.
Well, the next day the tiny pieces of carrot came out in her poo. They were just as they were when they went in.

So, is that normal, or a sign of major gut issues in her?

I know you all told me not to feed her, but dh was up my back about this, which just added to the other things and I couldn't take it anymore. He's already pissed at me for bf'ing her, so I just went ahead and let her have the carrots. Hopefully I haven't screwed her up anymore...


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
from there, i did a bit of a candida-type diet with some elements from SCD as well. when the results from the leaky gut test came back positive for leaky gut, negative for malabsorption, i started Intestinew then switched to Glutagenics + UltraFlora DF Plus + EPO. dairy-free cleared up the postnasal drip.

Mine came back positive for leaky gut, negative for malabsorption as well. Do you know why this is? What would cause malabsorption?

Thanks for your story. It's nice to hear what everyone has tried and it seems like you have made some great progress


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

mum2be--Have you tried almond/nut milk yogurt? My dd5 can eat goat's but my ds3 can not, unless whey is drained out. The yogurt will get tart if you drain whey out which ds won't eat. Another thing is using yogurt maker for goat or nut milk: I think it is set too high, but for cow's. I use oven with lower temp for incubating goat yogurt (110F) and nut milk yogurt (105F)

And, as far as malabsorption, when the colon is so damaged from condition like Leaky gut, your body can't absorb nutrient. So, staying on SCD with good compliance, eating SCD yogurt every day in the empty stomach, and using digestive enzyme with meals is one way of healing. Try not to get discouraged. This can be a slow, long road of recovery.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greencat* 
mum2be--Have you tried almond/nut milk yogurt? My dd5 can eat goat's but my ds3 can not, unless whey is drained out. The yogurt will get tart if you drain whey out which ds won't eat. Another thing is using yogurt maker for goat or nut milk: I think it is set too high, but for cow's. I use oven with lower temp for incubating goat yogurt (110F) and nut milk yogurt (105F

So you're saying the yogurt maker won't work for nut yogurt? Should I just return it before I open it then?

I'm so bummed...


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

May be other people had better luck using the yogurt maker for goat or nut milk yogurt, but I did not. I was getting pink spots after incubating for 8hr., no matter how much I starlized the equipments and container. I figured the temp was set too high, killing the good bacteria that you want to grow and culturing the bad which resulted in pink spots and bad oder. The yogurts also tasts better in the oven with a lower incubation temp, and comes out more creamy with organic milk. Other key is to cool the milk lower than 70F to add starter. You can lower it even lower (anywhere from 64F-70F.)
Good luck


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

this is a direction I wrote for my husband, if in case I have to leave or gone to stay at hospital, etc. The basic instruction is best read from pecanbread.com. Good luck.

It is best to use utensils that were in the dishwasher, or boil everthing for 10mim in a large pot, emersing everything.

1.5L Pyrex cooking pot and a lid
A large, cotton dish cloth
Stainless cooking spoon with holes
Cooking thermometer with holder
1/8t. measuring spoon
Timer
Blender
Ice

2/3 C Sliced, Blanched Almond
2/3 C Cashew nuts, or you can also add few pine nuts
4C filtered water
1/8sp Pro-Gurt

Have a dish cloth over a Pyrex cooking pot, ready to cook the nut milk.

Put nuts and water in a blender for 8min. to make nut milk.
Pour the nut milk in the pot, over the dish cloth.
Gently squeeze all the milk as you twist the top--Throw the nuts out

Put the cooking thermometer in the pot, and heat the milk with medium-high heat.
Slowly boil the nut milk to the boiling point as you stair often with the spoon.

Take the pot off the heat as soon as it reaches the boiling point. Do not let it burn. Keep the cooking thermometer and the spoon in the pot (until you are ready to put the pot in the oven.)

Let it cool to reach 64-77F. Keep the lid on while you cool it and the fan on high. You may do this with ice water in the sink to shorten the time of cooling. Stir before you read the temperature.

Set the oven temperature at 105F (Slightly lower than the goat milk.)

When cooked milk is in the appropriate temperature, take the Pro-Gurt out of the refrigerator, and sprinkle 1/8spoon of it. Then, gently stir. Do not mix too much where live culture does not like to be disturbed, and the yogurt will not sit well.

Cover the pot with Saran Wrap. Write the time you put the cooked milk in the oven on the Saran Wrap. Incubate without disturbing the milk for 8hours.

After the incubation, cool it in the refrigerator over night (without disturbing.)

Care and Cooking Tip

The cleaning is easier if you put water in the blender as soon as nut milk is poured into a pan. Wash the dish cloth in the hot, power wash cycle with Borax.

The reason you keep the cooking spoon and the thermometer in the pot until you are ready to put the cooled milk into the ready oven is to avoid introducing bacteria after the milk has reached the high temperature, making the milk a comfortable place for the good bacteria to thrive.

Keep the stove fan on high while you cook and cool the milk. Don't talk to it, but just look; keep your mouth closed, and keep the lids on while cooling.

Different kind of milk may take different temperature setting for incubation. The good bacteria will not grow if the temp is set too low, and the bad bacteria will out grow the good if it is too high. You will know when the bad bacteria have taken over the milk with bad, pungent smell or mold on the surface.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

greencat-Thank you so much for that recipe! I'm so thankful for all the support here on MDC


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## Janelovesmax (Feb 17, 2006)

mum2be;7644054 much more fun to just mush it around the tray.
Well said:


> First of all: hugs.
> 
> I think the reason why carrots came out as they went is is because she didn't chew them and just swallowed them and therefore they didn't digest and came right out as they came in.
> It happens to my son as well. He ate quinoa the other day without chewing, just swallowed it and I saw it all in his poop later that afternoon.


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
I steamed some organic carrots really, really well. Cut them into tiny little pieces (people on MDC seem to be against pureed foods, so I went this route) and let her go at it. She didn't really seem all that impressed and after about 3-4 tiny pieces that she got in her mouth, she decided it would be much more fun to just mush it around the tray.
Well, the next day the tiny pieces of carrot came out in her poo. They were just as they were when they went in.

So, is that normal, or a sign of major gut issues in her?

I know you all told me not to feed her, but dh was up my back about this, which just added to the other things and I couldn't take it anymore. He's already pissed at me for bf'ing her, so I just went ahead and let her have the carrots. Hopefully I haven't screwed her up anymore...

i've BTDT, and know how much pressure family can give you. my dh wouldn't read anything, barely listened, and just pretended that if he didn't acknowledge the problem it would go away (his approach to pretty much everything). when i would go to work on the weekend, he would go to my IL's, where he'd hand dd1 over to his mother, and the 2 of them would sabotage any trial/eliminations. after a while (MONTHS) they got better, but before then i'd hear "well there was only a LITTLE milk/whatever in it." and the frustrating thing was that often dd1 would sleep BETTER that night, maybe because she was getting different foods that she didn't usually get (dh is Indian, so she'd get iddly sambar, appams, etc...), and the defrosted milk she drank was from a few weeks previously and so also had different proteins in it than i was putting out currently, since i wouldn't be eating exactly the same thing as the day i pumped it.

i also now think that if the allergies are IgG (not the anaphalctic type), a little exposure now and then might be better than total elimination. i'm fuzzy on what i've read/the science behind this (bluets?). this stuff is so complicated, and like with most things the body of knowledge conflicts with itself regularly, and is just the tip of the iceberg. i mean, if one's body is hanging onto proteins (in storage, so to speak) for years, just to keep a template upon which to make antibodies in the future, what hope is there for a total elimination of something (=not eating it for months/years) to allow "growing out of" an allergy to occur? there must be something else going on, like the T1 T2 stuff, some sort of shift in how the body is approaching things.

and the stress of trying to "fix" the problem: constant trial, error, controling every bite you/dd takes, fighting with saboteurs... that weakens your immune system too, and the kids pick up on your stress. i've never eliminated rice, because dh refuses to support that, he eats it daily, so do the kids. i sometimes wonder if dd1's eczema would go away if i did, but how long would i have to eliminate it? and what would we eat to replace it? if she reacts to that too, then there'd be no change. and/or the IL's would sabotage (and dh too, probably), so then the elimination would fail to change things, so would that mean rice is ok for her, or just that we didn't eliminate it well enough. lots of stress for small chance of a "cure."

i started dd1 on solids (?rice cereal, which has soy lecithin) at 6 mos due to pressure, and she tolerated them badly (fussy, latched all night, gassy, target sign, mucus poop...). held off again until about 9 mos, when she tolerated them better. mostly squash, potato, yam/sweet potato, rice, barley, chard, peas, green beans, canned/cooked dried beans, beets, parsnips (not carrots for a long time since i thought she reacted to them), chicken (dh would make chicken soup with these, and i'd freeze portions in baby food jars), applesauce, softened/mashed fruits (no berries), avocado... i'm hazy at this point as to others. this variety was worked up to slowly over ?4-6mos.

i wouldn't worry too much about the lack of digestion going on. i think that's the way it is for most babies. i take it as a sign that babies really shouldn't be eating much before 9-12mos, because they don't have the teeth to chew it up into something digestible, and that probably reflects on their gut's ability to digest it either. but remember, babies put EVERYTHING in their mouths, and it's a sensory exploration most of the time. nobody says "she's hungry" when your baby puts pebbles in her mouth (very common when teething, molars especially). but at the dinner table, the only "toys" available are the food. you might want to start her on something that isn't a "staple" for you (=you eat it infrequently, say <once a week), so it's less likely to be something she reacts to. you can use this to your advantage in placating those who want to feed her: if it goes through intact, then she isn't being exposed to much of it (since it's only the surface of each chunk available to her).

at 6mos dd1 ate the bottom of a cardboard price tag (the part that comes off at a perforation so you can hide the price tidily at xmas). it came out intact; slightly damp, but still quite legible. both my kids (granted, not examples of steller digestion) sent out identifiable, properly colored chunks until >a year, after their molars came. you should have seen the pomegranite seeds: whole, shiny and ready to be served!


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Janelovesmax and formerluddite- Thanks sooo much. Your posts really helped me. It's nerve wracking making decisions that could determine whether she's going to be allergic to foods for her entire life! I don't want to! I turn to MDC a lot for those kinds of questions because I literally can't make them myself. Then I have all these people in my life who are pressuring me to do certain things, SO many people who think all of this is in my head (I can't even tell you how much that hurts), etc. that I just want to throw up my arms and say, "okay...you win! Happy now? I give up!"










Another question about poo...

Dd has pretty much always had bad mucus in her poo, but sometimes there are little dark green specks. Is that normal in BF babies? I thought it was weird because it's not like she's eating anything, so what could cause it to sometimes happen? Are there dark green specks coming out in my BM?









I'm hoping it's not blood. I even mushed one around a bit to see if it would turn red or something, but it stayed dark green.

Any ideas?


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## Rachel J. (Oct 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
It's nerve wracking making decisions that could determine whether she's going to be allergic to foods for her entire life! I don't want to! I turn to MDC a lot for those kinds of questions because I literally can't make them myself. Then I have all these people in my life who are pressuring me to do certain things, SO many people who think all of this is in my head (I can't even tell you how much that hurts), etc. that I just want to throw up my arms and say, "okay...you win! Happy now? I give up!"









I can totally relate. Sometimes I'm so confused and overwhelmed that I just want the knowledgeable MDCers to tell me what to do. They know so much more than the doc and other professional "experts" out there. I think my dh thinks that I overreact and over analyze. It's hard when you aren't fully understood or supported by those closest to you. Ds1 has bad eczema on his bottom and thighs. I want to try eliminating dairy and/or wheat but because ds1 is 3yo (last Tues







) and that's the majority of what he eats (another red flag to me) dh thinks we need to wait until he's older and should see the dermatologist for answers and meds







I really struggle with trying to do what I feel is in the best interest of my children and ot alienating and excluding my husband.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *formerluddite* 
i've been wondering something:

sometimes an indiction of an allergy is NOT liking a certain food. other times an indication is loving, craving, getting high on (beta endorphins), eating nothing BUT a certain food.

anyone know why? is one IgE and the other IgG? or something?

the craving thing makes it very hard to know when craving is a sign of a nutrient depletion (=good to eat the food) vs a sign of allergy (= bad to eat it).

I'd like to know, too! I think that in most cases, if you are healthy and without allergies, a food craving, for a whole food (not candy etc.) is a sign of a need for a nutrient in it, but if you are less than healthy and have intolerances/allergies, a food craving is nearly always a sign it's bad for you.
I wish that I could trust my body to know what it needs and tell me. Maybe it does and I'm just not listening?

You can also do an energy test -- have someone pull on your arm as you resist (hold it either down by your side or out at a 45 degree angle from your body perpendicular to the floor) without the food in your hand, then
with the food and compare whether your arm is weaker or stronger. This can be thrown off by your own perceptions though, so ideally you put a bunch of different foods in identical containers and then only reveal what's in them after you do the test. Does that make sense? It's described in detail in the book "Energy Medicine" by Donna Eden. It's basically applied kinesiology (sp?) but done at home. You can do it in the store, too, if you want, actually.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

I think the carrots not being digested is fairly common, even in an older child. For a long time, that how ds's poos would be. I think it's only been in the past year or so, after he turned three, that he's really been digesting his food more thoughly (but he's still clearly got problems, because he had a mucous poo this morning).

I think JaneS found that her ds could only digest carrots if they were braised for a long time in chicken broth, then the broth evaporated into a sauce.

The dark green in the poo -- not sure about that, but I think it's a sign of a food intolerance.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *elisabethmelner* 
I put my 2 year old son on the 1st stage of Breaking the Vicious Cycle diet in order to heal his leaky gut. After two days of being on it, his poop went from runny w/ undigested food to harder extremely dark (almost black) poop. This has been going on for about 1 1/2 weeks. Before the diet, he was pooping 3-5 times a day and it was always a nasty blowout with food particles still present. He now poops this dark, black poop about once a day.

Any thoughts on why his poop has changed so drastically? Should I be concerned? Have others experienced this same change when trying to heal the gut? Another bit of info., he is on a muti vitamin that has iron in it, which I hear can also turn your stools black. He started taking the vitamins the same time he started the diet. Also, he's been eating quite a bit of homemade gelatin w/ grape juice, which is quite dark. Not sure if this would affect the stool color though.

Please share your insights with me! Thanks!

I would vote for the vitamin, because the diet shouldn't cause it to turn black. The vitamin probably also is causing his poop to dry up, as many can do that. The iron in most multivitamins is not in a very absorbable form, and in fact iron supplements are not SCD legal -- have you see the (very short) list of SCD legal supplements on pecanbread? I went with Freda for awhile, now I just take some minerals, sodium ascorbate, and cod liver oil. For iron, you can give him liver, if he will eat it. There is a recipe in BTVC for liver pate that isn't too bad.


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## Cello (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
From my searches on past posts, I decided to get this one. I heard good things about it and I loved the fact that the jars are glass. Haven't tried it yet though, as it's still being shipping







but I'm hoping it will be as good as everyone says!

I am curious to hear how it works out for you. I gave up after two failed attempted, but I really like the glass idea too. I've gone back to making it the old fashioned way in the huge pots that I saw them being made in as a child.


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## SAmama (Oct 13, 2006)

So I have been reading everyone's stories and from what I read lately and also before it sounds like many of you have done the TED, it worked, only to have dc become sensitive to the foods in the TED. Then you switched to something like SCD, candida or TF, rotation diets or whatever you felt would be best?
I am on the TED right now, because eliminating the top eight and a few more for about two months didn't seem to help that much. Now dd's skin is looking better, but she still has some eczema (it used to be ALL OVER her body, so this is better) and rashes/hive type things (teeny bumps here and there. Yeast?). But I am nervous that she might get sensitive to something like sweet potato, which I eat everyday now. I wanted to do this to find out what she reacts to, because aside from a few things I don't know what the heck she is still getting that is messing her up. That makes me nervous about nuts and eggs in scd.
Now I just read that a little bit of exposure is better than total elimination. And what is this of your body "holding on" to proteins?

Also, I don't seem to really have digestive issues. Occasional bloating and gas, but I can't seem to figure out what foods cause it. It is so random. So I don't even know what would be best for me. I obviously have a leaky gut, because dd reacts to what I eat.

Oh, and mum2be, we just found out that dd reacts to cooked carrots.







:
Also, I don't know if you can have coconut, but coconut milk makes great yogurt.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SAmama* 
So I have been reading everyone's stories and from what I read lately and also before it sounds like many of you have done the TED, it worked, only to have dc become sensitive to the foods in the TED. Then you switched to something like SCD, candida or TF, rotation diets or whatever you felt would be best?
I am on the TED right now, because eliminating the top eight and a few more for about two months didn't seem to help that much. Now dd's skin is looking better, but she still has some eczema (it used to be ALL OVER her body, so this is better) and rashes/hive type things (teeny bumps here and there. Yeast?). But I am nervous that she might get sensitive to something like sweet potato, which I eat everyday now. I wanted to do this to find out what she reacts to, because aside from a few things I don't know what the heck she is still getting that is messing her up. That makes me nervous about nuts and eggs in scd.
Now I just read that a little bit of exposure is better than total elimination. And what is this of your body "holding on" to proteins?

Also, I don't seem to really have digestive issues. Occasional bloating and gas, but I can't seem to figure out what foods cause it. It is so random. So I don't even know what would be best for me. I obviously have a leaky gut, because dd reacts to what I eat.

Oh, and mum2be, we just found out that dd reacts to cooked carrots.







:
Also, I don't know if you can have coconut, but coconut milk makes great yogurt.


I went on the TED too and dd (or I...who knows how this one works...) started reacting to my only source of protein (this happened three times). I didn't know that could happen until I started reading more and more on MDC. I wish I had known about rotating foods back then...Now I am eating more things (although I eat some sort of rice product everyday) and trying to rotate them as much as possible, especially the meat.

I don't know what diet to turn to next, because like you, I don't have any digestive symptoms other than the occasional gas and constipation. No signs of yeast, but I am waiting to hear the results on my organic acids test.

The only problems I have are eczema and acne. I believe both are caused by my hormonal imbalances, because they came on in the pregnancy and went away completely for two weeks after the birth, when progesterone is high. (My progesterone is VERY low now.)

I think my limited diet has probably done me more harm. Sometimes I wish I could turn back the clock and have never done the IgG testing during my pregnancy, never eliminated all those foods during month 6, and just see what would have happened. If it weren't for dd's mucus poo, chunky spit up and excess gas at night, I would have never suspected a food allergy/intolerance.

I also feel that avoiding these foods is going to make her body go into "freak out mode" when she finally consumes a bit of wheat, etc. Like if I just kept having raw goat's milk (the last thing she has reacted to and pretty much the only dairy I've had while pregnant or nursing, other than sheep's cheese) would her reactions eventually get less and less or more and more?

Aah...I just wish there was some concrete info on all of this and it wasn't up to us to figure it all out...







:


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SAmama* 
Now I just read that a little bit of exposure is better than total elimination.

i speculated this, based on reading a whole bunch, lots of it links posted by JaneS and bluets, lots of people's experiences, and perhaps some wishful thinking on my part, since total elimination is so hard to do of the common allergens, precisely because they end up in everything with more than a few ingredients, all food prep places are "contaminated" with them (restaurants, etc.), and so on.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SAmama* 
And what is this of your body "holding on" to proteins?

i can't remember what i read that left this sticking in my mind. i'm not sure if researchers actually found food proteins in a person's blood who hadn't eaten that food in years, or if they were postulating a theory as to why someone would continue to react. but the immune system already does this with virus particles, etc.; keeps a bit around to use as a template to make new antibodies with.

sorry it's all so mushy. makes one wish for a nice uncomplicated broken leg or something (but i guess even that's complicated when it's your leg).


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SAmama* 
Now dd's skin is looking better, but she still has some eczema (it used to be ALL OVER her body, so this is better) and rashes/hive type things (teeny bumps here and there. Yeast?).


are you taking evening primrose oil? any other EFAs?


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## moongoddess176 (May 16, 2006)

My ds is 4 months old and for the past 3-4 weeks he has been having green poops. I wasn't too worried about this at first because he wasn't having any other problems or symptoms. The past week he has been having painful poops where he cries and pushes so hard for 15-30 mins. It comes and it is green, seedy and has some mucous. After that he seems fine. He is also waking up alot at night and will not totally wake, but thrash around alot and I bf him back to sleep.

He is EBF and fed on demand. I have also already thought about foremilk/hindmilk imbalance, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I hate to see him in pain. Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this? Can gut yeast cause pain? I am going to start eliminating dairy as of today.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moongoddess176* 
My ds is 4 months old and for the past 3-4 weeks he has been having green poops. I wasn't too worried about this at first because he wasn't having any other problems or symptoms. The past week he has been having painful poops where he cries and pushes so hard for 15-30 mins. It comes and it is green, seedy and has some mucous. After that he seems fine. He is also waking up alot at night and will not totally wake, but thrash around alot and I bf him back to sleep.

He is EBF and fed on demand. I have also already thought about foremilk/hindmilk imbalance, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I hate to see him in pain. Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this? Can gut yeast cause pain? I am going to start eliminating dairy as of today.

flip through this thread and look for the dairy free infant probiotics for your ds and adult probiotics for you. (though they don't actually say "adult" probiotics - that's the default! the infant ones DO say "infant")


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## lastrid (Jan 20, 2007)

I've just started reading this thread and have a couple of questions. I've been doing TED with my five month old for about five weeks. I have not been able to successfully introduce anything back in yet, mostly because I started with oatmeal and he began reacting to it after 6 or 7 days and I didn't pick up on it so it threw everything else off.

He's greatly improved since I've been on this, but still has some issues, like having trouble passing gas/pooping, sometimes thrashing around in pain and only walking him around draped over my shoulder or in the kangaroo hold calms him down.

I guess my question is, should I try a different approach? I'm considering getting some Solaray Babylife for him, and I want to start drinking kefir. Would those things help or hurt? I've had IBS off and on for years, so I imagine that I've contributed to this problem, not to mention that I got iv antibiotics after he was born for ruptured membranes.

Any ideas? TIA.


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## Rachel J. (Oct 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lastrid* 
I've just started reading this thread and have a couple of questions. I've been doing TED with my five month old for about five weeks. I have not been able to successfully introduce anything back in yet, mostly because I started with oatmeal and he began reacting to it after 6 or 7 days and I didn't pick up on it so it threw everything else off.

He's greatly improved since I've been on this, but still has some issues, like having trouble passing gas/pooping, sometimes thrashing around in pain and only walking him around draped over my shoulder or in the kangaroo hold calms him down.

I guess my question is, should I try a different approach? I'm considering getting some Solaray Babylife for him, and I want to start drinking kefir. Would those things help or hurt? I've had IBS off and on for years, so I imagine that I've contributed to this problem, not to mention that I got iv antibiotics after he was born for ruptured membranes.

Any ideas? TIA.

I'm sure you'll get a response from someone more knowledgeable than me but I'll get you started. Definitely get the probiotics for him as soon as possible and some for you, too. Kefir (water until you successfully reintroduce dairy) would be great for you, as well as fermented foods. I'll bow out now and let the experts step in.


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## lastrid (Jan 20, 2007)

I wanted to add a link to the thread I had started in the allergy forum so you could read the original story if anyone was interested:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...68&postcount=1


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## Rachel J. (Oct 30, 2005)

Last week was an interesting week for me. Ds1's birthday was on Tuesday and of couse I had to make a cake (and birthday brownies). I tried not to eat too much of the batter as it had wheat, eggs, butter and buttermilk in it but I've always been a batter/bowl licker so it was really hard. I thought ds2 might react (gas, fussy, refluxy) but he didn't. Thursday I made cream cheese frosting (raw butter and reg. store bought cream cheese and iced ds1's cupcake cake, very messy, again much more sampling then I should have done. Still no reaction. Friday I had a cupcake, quite a bit of icing, some chocolate chip cheesecake and I've had an icing-free cupcake every day since. He doesn't seem to be having any problems (although I may have to reconsider my sugar intake because I'm getting bad cravings for it). He's a little over 5 months, adjusted for his prematurity. Could it be that his gut is sealing and now he's just not as reactive? Or am I jumping the gun and setting him up for future trouble?

I've also realized that, other than oats, wheat and peanuts, the foods that seemed to bother him were high in sulfur (broccoli- didn't even try related foods like cauliflower and cabbage, coconut, eggs, lots of garlic). I'm not sure what to make of that connection, if anything.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lastrid* 
I've just started reading this thread and have a couple of questions. I've been doing TED with my five month old for about five weeks. I have not been able to successfully introduce anything back in yet, mostly because I started with oatmeal and he began reacting to it after 6 or 7 days and I didn't pick up on it so it threw everything else off.

He's greatly improved since I've been on this, but still has some issues, like having trouble passing gas/pooping, sometimes thrashing around in pain and only walking him around draped over my shoulder or in the kangaroo hold calms him down.

I guess my question is, should I try a different approach? I'm considering getting some Solaray Babylife for him, and I want to start drinking kefir. Would those things help or hurt? I've had IBS off and on for years, so I imagine that I've contributed to this problem, not to mention that I got iv antibiotics after he was born for ruptured membranes.

Any ideas? TIA.

you need to focus on healing yourself first - baby will follow.

read the cheat sheet/sticky and then start considering your options, which are many... testing for leaky gut, allergies etc.; variety of diet choices (SCD, rotational, candida, failsafe, etc) and a variety of supplements to boost your healing.

i'd RUN -not walk- to get your hands on some good organic chickens, beef, ham bones, etc. and start making bone broths. they will contain many many nourishing nutrients that will facilitate healing.


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## lastrid (Jan 20, 2007)

So how do I choose which diet to try? Do I totally scrap TED and start with something else? Do I bother giving Colum probiotics as well? I haven't been able to find a good resource for a rotation diet, so anything along those lines would help as well.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Sorry I haven't been on the thread much this month. We're going out of town again soon, so I won't be back regularly until April.

Anyway, I want to get your opinions. Since bifidus is the gut-sealing probiotic, would you give it exclusively to a toddler who will probably wean herself over the next couple of months or would you move to a mixture of different probiotics? What would be most beneficial for gut healing and sealing in this case?

Secondly, I need a strain that is dairy and corn-free. The two infant ones (solaray and natren, I think) won't work (I think one has corn, the other has dairy). Would Custom Probiotics work for us? Anyone have their contact info?


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lastrid* 
So how do I choose which diet to try? Do I totally scrap TED and start with something else? Do I bother giving Colum probiotics as well? I haven't been able to find a good resource for a rotation diet, so anything along those lines would help as well.

There is a lot of info about rotation diets out there, you just have to dig. I have a book called the Allergy Self-Help Cookbook that has some info. I think some of the previous threads have info about the leading researchers.

How old is Colum? I would definitely do probiotics for him no matter what his age, with bifidus being the one if he is EBF and a combo for later (because it naturally changes once solids are introduced).


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## SAmama (Oct 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
are you taking evening primrose oil? any other EFAs?

I used to take about 6g of EPO and then some fish/flax/borage sometimes with that as well, or just fish. And I ate ground flax seed. Now I am doing the TED, so I am not taking anything. The EPO I have is in gel caps and I don't know if that might bother dd (or the oil itself, we have some mystery allergies). So I need to trial it in, probably by squeezing it out of the caplet thingy). I also have CLO on the way, finally. Will be here in April somewhere. In the meantime I have hemp oil as one of my oils, and I have been cooking with sheep fat as much as I can.


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## SAmama (Oct 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Yes, but DS got worse. I should have stuck with BF'ing him and did the same things I did: enzymes with and between meals, kefir, TF diet. Oh well if only we could turn back the clock and compare...

You did a TF diet, not SCD? Uh, TF, I am just assuming that is traditional foods, as in "Nourishing Tradidtions"?
Your ds did SCD though, right. I think I remember you said he didn't heal on that. Did you post somewhere on here why you think it didn't work? I cannot access pecanbread or breaking the vicious cycle from here, so i have a very basic idea of scd.


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## SAmama (Oct 13, 2006)

> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *formerluddite*
> ...


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SAmama* 
Our kitchen floor is contaminated.







I really try to keep it clean, but she finds the minutest crumb in the weirdest out of the way places. And that has already messed with this TED - as in, was that the new food I added in, or that crumb she found on the floor.







:

that's what makes this stuff so frustrating. when i first started TED, i was about to go back to work (1-2day/week at that time), and so i had stockpiled a frozen milk supply. but a lot if it was from before eliminating, and i didn't really have much choice but to use some of it. i think i threw some of it out







but i had to have a few day's worth in the freezer, so i ended up using some. and after a flare up i'd never know if it was what i ate that day, or 2 weeks earlier and was in the frozen milk.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

So I've been doing some thinking lately...

I had NO symptoms before my ND wanted to do an IgG test besides the eczema and acne that developed during my pregnancy. I had no symptoms before the pregnancy and I was pretty darn sure that it was the cause of a hormonal imbalance. After I stopped the pill, I started getting some acne, and then when I got pregnant it just got much worse, and the eczema started.

But my ND wanted to check for food allergies/intolerances because the eczema sent up a red flag for her. So I complied.

The test came back with wheat, gluten, pears, milk, certain cheeses, yeast, soy, and some other random things. I was a vegan previously and freaked out that I couldn't have most of these. So I eliminated them all, only to see a *slight* improvement in my acne, but a worsening in my eczema. But I stuck with it, because that's what I was told to do.

Fast forward to the birth...

For two weeks after dd was born, my acne cleared up and my eczema went away. A miracle!!! Then, BAM! It comes back as quickly as it left. Weird, huh? No change in my diet either.

Then dd wouldn't stop crying, had horrible poos, spitups, etc. so my ND says, "she's reacting to food you are eating. Go see a kinesiologist that I trust and have her test you and the baby."

So I do. I end up eating chicken, peas, carrots, kale, potatoes, rice, olive oil and quinoa for 4 months. NO improvement in dd really now that I look back, and NO improvement in my acne or eczema.

So here we are today. My body is starting to react to things it never did before. I have a bad leaky gut that I believe just got worse the more foods I pulled out. I had some allergen free chocolate cake two days ago and it made me break out and have bad gas. I had this same cake 2 weeks after dd was born with no reaction.

What is going on here?? I am seriously p.o.'d that I ever let my ND do that IgG test. I honestly believe it made everything worse and I think now dd is getting the worst of it.

I have no idea what is going on with my gut and why it's all of a sudden so bad, but I know that I felt a heck of a lot better when I was eating food. A HECK OF A LOT BETTER!

I see my ND today. I love her to death (she's a midwife and delivered dd too) but I just want to scream at her and say, "What have you done to us?" I want to tell her all of this, but I'm afraid it will get brushed aside.

That's all for now.


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)




----------



## Rachel J. (Oct 30, 2005)

So the more I research the more I'm starting to think that I seriously have adrenal fatigue and that is what is mainly throwing my system off and contributing to my seasonal allergies, sugar/carb cravings, stomach acid and gassy food digestion issues. I'm sure I have candida issues and low body temp. I guess I don't really know what's the chicken and what's the egg and which one came first. It's all very overwhelming (as we all know).

Here's some info I stumbled across, hope it hasn't been posted before. It's quite long but interesting and ties lots of health issues together. From NATURAL MEDICINE by Roy B. Kupsinel M.D.

WILSON:
Denis Wilson, MD has developed a protocol for the treatment of
WILSON'S THYROID SYNDROME (WTS). His diagnosis and treatment parallels
that of Barnes but there are some major differences. The diagnosis is
based on the presence of symptoms of low thyroid function, enumerated
in his Thyroid Symptom Check List, a low body temperature based on oral
temperatures and abnormal thyroid function test(s). Temperatures are
taken with a non-digital thermometer three times during a day at three 
hour intervals, beginning in the early morning and averaged. Normal is
98.6. Thyroid function tests such as TSH, T-4, and T-3 may be ordered.

Before discussing the treatment, here is a brief view on the
physiology. The pituitary gland secretes Thyroid Stimulating Hormone
(TSH) that tells the thyroid gland to produce T-4. An enzyme normally
converts T-4 to T-3, the active thyroid hormone that keeps the body in
metabolic balance. For various reasons, some people do not efficiently
convert T-4 to T-3 and end up with what is called Reverse T-3 with the
result of the body temperature going down and the symptoms coming up. A
synthetic form of T-4 is called Synthroid and is the most commonly
thyroid medication used by conventional doctors. I have one friend now
whose endocrinologist keeps increasing her Synthroid because of her
lethargy and even with ever increasing TSH levels. I suggested she
discuss combination therapy with T-3, sustained release, for my hunch
is she is not converting the T-3 to T-4 but to Reverse T-3.

The WTS treatment consists of taking sustained released T-3 capsules,
e.g. 7.5 mcg twice a day at an exact twelve hour interval, increasing
dosages each day by 7.5 mcg, to capture the normal temperature of 98.6,
continuing on this dosage for two weeks, and then gradually reducing 
and stopping. The treatment period is about one month. A patient may
repeat the series a few times if the temperature is not captured.

When this method works the patient's result is most rewarding. I have
been treating patients with WTS therapy for about one year. I find 
75% of my patients do very well, capture their temperature and reduce
their symptoms. They usually take one to three series. Some do need
another series down the road for stress, which is a factor that may
lower the temperature. The beauty of successful treatment is that the
patient has no need to take further thyroid prescription medication.
With the Barnes Method the patient takes Thyroid, USP indefinitely. 
The other 25% of patients seem to have problems in tolerating the
medication. The use of the Barnes Method is an alternative.
You may learn more about WTS from going to the web site
<wilsonsthyroidsyndrome.com> . Here you will also find a
referral list of area physicians. Dr. Wilson has written a most
understandable and cleverly illustrated book for both the patient and
the doctor called THE DOCTOR'S MANUAL. I encourage my patients to
order it.

4. LOW ADRENAL FUNCTION

I have been treating patients for hypothyroidism with the Barnes Method
for over twenty-eight years and with the Wilson's Thyroid Syndrome
Method, according to the protocol, for over two years. I remember
Broda Barnes, MD talking about the importance of normally functioning
adrenal glands and the pituitary, the master endocrine gland, in
establishing normal thyroid gland function. Actually, it is a trio of
three endocrine glands -- pituitary, thyroid, and adrenal -- like a
triangle that needs to be balanced with equal sides. I have been
finding some patients having difficulties in success with WTS because
of adrenal under function or adrenal fatigue.

Let me take you back in my history to 1975 when I became the transition
physician with the goal of physician heal thyself. Being diagnosed as
having hypoglycemia, I began a simple nutritional program with a
dramatic dietary change to healthy wholesome foods, just three or four
nutritional supplements and injections of ACE or Adrenal Cortical
Extract. It took me about six months to figuratively and literally get
back on my feet and I attribute these changes and especially ACE to my
recovery. After getting the intravenous injection of ACE, I would
develop a splitting relentless headache for three days but began
experiencing a rapid improvement in my health. I took them on a weekly
basis. Although the product was available from perhaps one or two
pharmaceutical companies, it became more and more difficult to obtain
as the synthetic adrenal cortical products were introduced to the
market in both oral and injectable forms. You may know these synthetic
products or drugs best by the general name "cortisone." ACE became
known as a legend drug and was available from some pharmacies. A major
source was from cattle adrenals and guess where? The Falkland
Islands!!! We'll when war broke out there, there was no more ACE coming
to the USA. Broda Barnes even recommended small doses of cortisone
for some of the hypothyroid patients, especially if they were not
improving with five grains of Thyroid, USP. Bottom line, I did then
heal myself. In the early 1980s I developed an interest in the
mercury-amalgam toxicity problem from the dental fillings and also
autism and the relationship to vaccinations with thimerosal as a
preservative. Guess what, the ACE I received back in the 1970s was
preserved with? This mercury substance called thimerosal. That is why
I had headaches then, and every day of my life until amalgam removal
and replacement accompanied by detoxification that I started in the
early 1980s.. I attribute these headaches to mercury toxicity and it's
secondary devastating effect on my body

There is a product called NatCell Adrenal that is a natural complex of
many different adrenal peptides from the medulla and cortex of the
gland (animal). It is relatively expensive and available through your
physician from Emerson Ecologics. Apothe'Cure Inc., a pharmacy in
Dallas,Texas now as "Adrenal Cortex Extract sublingual" but the
physician may filter the product and administer it intravenously. Call
1-800-969-6601 or 972-960-6601 for information or to order. Website is
<www.apothecure.com>. 
WILSON'S THYROID SYNDROME has an herbal supplement to enhance adrenal
function, ADAPTOGEN-PLUS and the newer ADAPTOGEN-PLUS 2.. I have been
using the Adaptogen-Plus and subsequently added three important adrenal
building nutrients -- vitamin C, Pantothenic, and Adrenotrophic. I
recommend for the vitamin C, the superior product, C-Salts by Wholesale
Nutrition. Dosage is to bowel tolerance. Pantothenic and Adrenotrophic
are by Progressive Laboratories, another company of longevity and
integrity in the nutriceutical field. Pantothenic is pantothenic acid
in capsule form and Adrenotrophic is an adrenal glandular concentrate
also in capsules. I recommend for the average adult to take these two
products initially with one three times a day and increase to two three
times a day. John Tintera, MD called the condition
HYPO-ADRENOCORTICISM and wrote a book by this title many years ago.
Here are a couple of signs of the condition that you may be able to
determine yourself or with the help of your doctor. If your blood
pressure drops 10 points or more in either or both the systolic (higher
reading) or the diastolic (lower one) when you go from a supine (laying
down) position to a standing position, it is a very positive sign. 
Often with the BP drop you may experience dizziness or lightheadedness
when you go from a recumbent to a standing position. Normally when one
checks the pupil reflex of the eye with a bright light held to the
side, the pupil will constrict and hold to block out the light. If the
constriction is only brief, a few seconds, and doesn't hold, this is
another positive sign of low adrenal function.

The two small adrenal glands sit like a triangular shaped Robin Hood
hats on top of each kidney. The inner part (middle) is called the
medulla and the outer part, cortex. The medulla produces adrenaline
or epinephrine that is a stress hormone. The cortex secretes cortisone
and also sex hormones like the ovaries and testes!!! The adrenal
cortical hormones help with salt and water balance, carbohydrate
metabolism, and blood sugar regulation. The signs and symptoms listed
below in the Adrenal Appraisal Indicator may occur with low adrenal
cortical function. When the adrenal cortex is extremely underactive,
this most serious but rare condition, is called Addison's disease. When
the adrenal cortex is overactive another rare condition called
Cushing's syndrome exists. The long term use of cortisone and cortisone
related pharmaceuticals, often used for treating patients with
asthma,arthritis,and transplants can lead to a Cushinoid like
appearance with the rounded "moon" face, heavy abdomen and buttocks,
and thin legs. There are numerous side effects and adverse reactions
from the general cortisone family, but the focus here is on adrenal
under function.

I have composed the ADRENAL APPRAISAL INDICATOR from my studies with
appropriate credits as subtitles. I took the test and scored 16 out
of the 32 questions!. So, I am back in the physician heal thyself mode
and on the supplements cited above. I am thankful to Dr. James L.
Wilson for his 2001 article in Townsend Letter for Doctors and
Patients. Subsequently, I bought his 2003 book in 2004, Adrenal
Fatigue: The 21st-Century Stress Syndrome by James L. Wilson 09
January, 2002, List Price: $14.95 Amazon.com. I purchased one copy at
Barnes and Noble and another in Borders.


----------



## Rachel J. (Oct 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
So I've been doing some thinking lately...

I had NO symptoms before my ND wanted to do an IgG test besides the eczema and acne that developed during my pregnancy. I had no symptoms before the pregnancy and I was pretty darn sure that it was the cause of a hormonal imbalance. After I stopped the pill, I started getting some acne, and then when I got pregnant it just got much worse, and the eczema started.

But my ND wanted to check for food allergies/intolerances because the eczema sent up a red flag for her. So I complied.

So I eliminated them all, only to see a *slight* improvement in my acne, but a worsening in my eczema. But I stuck with it, because that's what I was told to do.

Fast forward to the birth...

For two weeks after dd was born, my acne cleared up and my eczema went away. A miracle!!! Then, BAM! It comes back as quickly as it left. Weird, huh? No change in my diet either.

So here we are today. My body is starting to react to things it never did before. I have a bad leaky gut that I believe just got worse the more foods I pulled out. I had some allergen free chocolate cake two days ago and it made me break out and have bad gas. I had this same cake 2 weeks after dd was born with no reaction.

What is going on here?? I am seriously p.o.'d that I ever let my ND do that IgG test. I honestly believe it made everything worse and I think now dd is getting the worst of it.

I have no idea what is going on with my gut and why it's all of a sudden so bad, but I know that I felt a heck of a lot better when I was eating food. A HECK OF A LOT BETTER!

I see my ND today. I love her to death (she's a midwife and delivered dd too) but I just want to scream at her and say, "What have you done to us?" I want to tell her all of this, but I'm afraid it will get brushed aside.

That's all for now.









s I don't have anything helpful to tell you, just wanting to commiserate. I didn't have any obvious problems before ds2 was born, either. I mean I had eczema and dry skin which got really bad during my pregnancy (hormones, right?). I thought it would improve after ds was born like it did with my first but it stayed bad and then I got really bloated and gassy, along with ds, and now feel like I have a rock in my stomach when I eat and don't use enzymes or enough of them and more, recently my I feel my gallbladder. The more I try the worse it gets???


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

mum2be said:


> So I've been doing some thinking lately...
> 
> I had NO symptoms before my ND wanted to do an IgG test besides the eczema and acne that developed during my pregnancy. I had no symptoms before the pregnancy and I was pretty darn sure that it was the cause of a hormonal imbalance. After I stopped the pill, I started getting some acne, and then when I got pregnant it just got much worse, and the eczema started.
> 
> ...


----------



## crazycat (Oct 20, 2004)

I posted this in a separate post but really haven't gotten any response so thought I would try here and see if anyone had any ideas.

My 2-yo son has been having a lot of stringy, mucousy stools kind of alternating with liquid stools with lots of undigested foods in them. He had this as an infant before I realized he did not tolerate dairy products, but is still currently dairy free, and so am I since he is still nursing. His stools had been fairly normal up until a couple of weeks ago when he started having stools like I mentioned above - at first it was kind of here and there but now it is pretty much constant. Today he had a very small stringy, mucousy stool within a few minutes of eating anything at all. He also had one larger liquid stool with lots of undigested foods as well as a couple larger of the other stools with lots of stringy, mucousy stuff in it. He has not had a "normal stool" at all for several days now.

I talked with our pediatrician's office today and they said just watch it, give him bananas and encourage pasta and mashed potatoes and such since they tend to firm up the stools. He does not have any fevers or other symptoms other than intermittent irritablity so they are not too concerned.

He is very small, about 34 inches, 25 pounds. His appetite tends to fluctuate widely but has not been diminished at all in the last couple of weeks. If anything he is asking to eat and drink more often, which could be partly due to my being about 9 weeks pregnant and my milk supply diminishing somewhat.

What would you think? Does the ped's advice seem appropriate? He does have asthma and takes daily steroid nebulizer treatments along with albuterol nebulizers when necessary. The diarrhea type stools initially started when he was on oral prednisone a couple of weeks ago for an asthma flare but as I said they have just progressed since that time to where we are now. He has not had this type of response after previous oral prednisone courses. In the past couple of days the stools have started making his bottom quite red and sore as well, so he's also uncomfortable from that of course. He does seem to have tummy aches sometimes but that doesn't seem to be frequent and most of the time he is acting pretty much normal.

Thanks so much for any thoughts!


----------



## sphinxie (Feb 28, 2006)

What is the best approach for quick relief of reflux? Especially in the middle of the night?

I no longer had reflux for quite awhile, but it has come back, I think it's time to increase the enzymes and generally refocus on prevention.

But in the meanwhile, what's the healthiest way to deal with the symptom... especially when it's very painful and not what one wants to just put up with?

Over a year ago I used to drink some milk, but nowadays I avoid that since I want my body digesting less at night. Then I just ignored it & propped myself up, but it wasn't as painful as it has been lately. Lately I've taken antacids--pepcid I think--when it's painful. I've also got milk of magnesia. Oh, and there's baking soda.

I know that it's better to keep the stomach acidic so that whatever hydrochloric acid is produced can be more effective... but what about when that's too uncomfortable? Are all alkalanizing medicines equal?


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crazycat* 
I posted this in a separate post but really haven't gotten any response so thought I would try here and see if anyone had any ideas.

My 2-yo son has been having a lot of stringy, mucousy stools kind of alternating with liquid stools with lots of undigested foods in them. He had this as an infant before I realized he did not tolerate dairy products, but is still currently dairy free, and so am I since he is still nursing. His stools had been fairly normal up until a couple of weeks ago when he started having stools like I mentioned above - at first it was kind of here and there but now it is pretty much constant. Today he had a very small stringy, mucousy stool within a few minutes of eating anything at all. He also had one larger liquid stool with lots of undigested foods as well as a couple larger of the other stools with lots of stringy, mucousy stuff in it. He has not had a "normal stool" at all for several days now.

I talked with our pediatrician's office today and they said just watch it, give him bananas and encourage pasta and mashed potatoes and such since they tend to firm up the stools. He does not have any fevers or other symptoms other than intermittent irritablity so they are not too concerned.

He is very small, about 34 inches, 25 pounds. His appetite tends to fluctuate widely but has not been diminished at all in the last couple of weeks. If anything he is asking to eat and drink more often, which could be partly due to my being about 9 weeks pregnant and my milk supply diminishing somewhat.

What would you think? Does the ped's advice seem appropriate? He does have asthma and takes daily steroid nebulizer treatments along with albuterol nebulizers when necessary. The diarrhea type stools initially started when he was on oral prednisone a couple of weeks ago for an asthma flare but as I said they have just progressed since that time to where we are now. He has not had this type of response after previous oral prednisone courses. In the past couple of days the stools have started making his bottom quite red and sore as well, so he's also uncomfortable from that of course. He does seem to have tummy aches sometimes but that doesn't seem to be frequent and most of the time he is acting pretty much normal.

Thanks so much for any thoughts!

i would start with a dairy-free probiotic -- you'll have to dig through this or previous threads to find suggestions on brands.

you'll want to wait and see what happens with extra probiotics before you tweak anything else. the next step beyond probiotics would be homemade (nondairy) yogurt or kefir, using nut milk or coconut milk if those are well tolerated. sometimes (like myself) homemade dairy yogurt/kefir are tolerated because one can control the degree of fermentation, allowing for more of the nasty milk proteins to be broken down than in commercial offerings.

you might want to see what deficiencies arise following steroid use - perhaps googling on (without quotes) "prednisone nutritional deficiency" might bring up useful material. certainly look at the material linking asthma to a magnesium deficiency - you might be able to reduce dependency on prednisone by correcting an underlying mineral imbalance/deficiency. i think high vitamin A cod liver oil might also be helpful in combating asthma.

but again, i would first add the probiotics and see if that helps before you start messing with anything else. keep in mind that it may take some time to see a response, so don't give up after a day or two - it might take up to a few weeks before you see a change.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sphinxie* 
What is the best approach for quick relief of reflux? Especially in the middle of the night?

I no longer had reflux for quite awhile, but it has come back, I think it's time to increase the enzymes and generally refocus on prevention.

But in the meanwhile, what's the healthiest way to deal with the symptom... especially when it's very painful and not what one wants to just put up with?

Over a year ago I used to drink some milk, but nowadays I avoid that since I want my body digesting less at night. Then I just ignored it & propped myself up, but it wasn't as painful as it has been lately. Lately I've taken antacids--pepcid I think--when it's painful. I've also got milk of magnesia. Oh, and there's baking soda.

I know that it's better to keep the stomach acidic so that whatever hydrochloric acid is produced can be more effective... but what about when that's too uncomfortable? Are all alkalanizing medicines equal?

Have you tried a test to see whether you have too much or too little stomach acid? Both cause the same symptoms, but most people actually have too little stomach acid. You can drinking 1 tsp of baking soda in 8 oz of water first thing in the morning to test--if you have enough stomach acid, you should burp within 5 minutes. If your problem is too much stomach acid, then you can keep a glass of water with 1/4 tsp of baking soda by your bed and sip that when you have reflux problems. If the problem is too little stomach acid, then you want to take Betaine HCL with meals, and you can keep a glass of water with a Tbsp. of apple cider vinegar by your bed and sip that when you have problems.


----------



## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crazycat* 
I posted this in a separate post but really haven't gotten any response so thought I would try here and see if anyone had any ideas.

My 2-yo son has been having a lot of stringy, mucousy stools kind of alternating with liquid stools with lots of undigested foods in them. He had this as an infant before I realized he did not tolerate dairy products, but is still currently dairy free, and so am I since he is still nursing. His stools had been fairly normal up until a couple of weeks ago when he started having stools like I mentioned above - at first it was kind of here and there but now it is pretty much constant. Today he had a very small stringy, mucousy stool within a few minutes of eating anything at all. He also had one larger liquid stool with lots of undigested foods as well as a couple larger of the other stools with lots of stringy, mucousy stuff in it. He has not had a "normal stool" at all for several days now.

I talked with our pediatrician's office today and they said just watch it, give him bananas and encourage pasta and mashed potatoes and such since they tend to firm up the stools. He does not have any fevers or other symptoms other than intermittent irritablity so they are not too concerned.

He is very small, about 34 inches, 25 pounds. His appetite tends to fluctuate widely but has not been diminished at all in the last couple of weeks. If anything he is asking to eat and drink more often, which could be partly due to my being about 9 weeks pregnant and my milk supply diminishing somewhat.

What would you think? Does the ped's advice seem appropriate? He does have asthma and takes daily steroid nebulizer treatments along with albuterol nebulizers when necessary. The diarrhea type stools initially started when he was on oral prednisone a couple of weeks ago for an asthma flare but as I said they have just progressed since that time to where we are now. He has not had this type of response after previous oral prednisone courses. In the past couple of days the stools have started making his bottom quite red and sore as well, so he's also uncomfortable from that of course. He does seem to have tummy aches sometimes but that doesn't seem to be frequent and most of the time he is acting pretty much normal.

Thanks so much for any thoughts!

Most MDs know next to nothing about food intolerances, nutrition, and even the gut in general. Have you read the Healing the Gut Cheat Sheet at the top of this forum? Asthma is often triggered by food intolerances -- I know mine was (it's gone thanks to a better diet and homeopathy). Have you ever done an elimination diet for him? A naturopath who knows about it can help, as can a holistic nutritionist (different from a registered dietician). There are blood tests for food intolerances, and energy testing, but an elimination diet, though hard, is the most accurate.







to you and best wishes.


----------



## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sphinxie* 
What is the best approach for quick relief of reflux? Especially in the middle of the night?

I no longer had reflux for quite awhile, but it has come back, I think it's time to increase the enzymes and generally refocus on prevention.

But in the meanwhile, what's the healthiest way to deal with the symptom... especially when it's very painful and not what one wants to just put up with?

Over a year ago I used to drink some milk, but nowadays I avoid that since I want my body digesting less at night. Then I just ignored it & propped myself up, but it wasn't as painful as it has been lately. Lately I've taken antacids--pepcid I think--when it's painful. I've also got milk of magnesia. Oh, and there's baking soda.

I know that it's better to keep the stomach acidic so that whatever hydrochloric acid is produced can be more effective... but what about when that's too uncomfortable? Are all alkalanizing medicines equal?

Drinking a full glass of water can relieve reflux short term. Reducing starches and foods you can't digest helps long term.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SAmama* 
You did a TF diet, not SCD? Uh, TF, I am just assuming that is traditional foods, as in "Nourishing Tradidtions"?
Your ds did SCD though, right. I think I remember you said he didn't heal on that. Did you post somewhere on here why you think it didn't work? I cannot access pecanbread or breaking the vicious cycle from here, so i have a very basic idea of scd.

Yes TF=Traditional Foods=Nourishing Traditions.

SCD=no grains, sugar or starches (no potatoes, corn). Nuts, meat, fish, aged cheese, veggies, fruits, fat and honey okay. Lots of 24h yogurt.

I did do SCD first, sorry... a TF version of it (mostly soaked nuts, lots of broths and HVCLO, traditional fats meaning no vegetable oils other than EVOO).

I did notice a difference for myself immediately. But I really made strides with digestive enzymes with and between meals (cellulases and proteases). At that point I added back in starches and small amounts of soaked grains from a TF perspective.

I had kept my raw milk kefir even in beginning when I started SCD b/c I was stubborn. It was the first thing that I saw a lot of healing from (hay fever, interstitial cystitis in addition to gut). I went off kefir eventually to yogurt but I didn't feel as good. Perhaps I needed the beneficial yeasts to continue to crowd bad guys out.

I've been on and off so many things at different times! I honestly cannot say whether I needed to go about this in a roundabout way... such as perhaps TED helped me at first to give things a rest? It also made it relatively easy to do the SCD as in being grateful for more of a variety. I've learned something at every step at least ... it was a long road though. Hopefully my experiences can make it a little easier for y'all!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
So I've been doing some thinking lately...

I had NO symptoms before my ND wanted to do an IgG test besides the eczema and acne that developed during my pregnancy. I had no symptoms before the pregnancy and I was pretty darn sure that it was the cause of a hormonal imbalance. After I stopped the pill, I started getting some acne, and then when I got pregnant it just got much worse, and the eczema started.

But my ND wanted to check for food allergies/intolerances because the eczema sent up a red flag for her. So I complied.

The test came back with wheat, gluten, pears, milk, certain cheeses, yeast, soy, and some other random things. I was a vegan previously and freaked out that I couldn't have most of these. So I eliminated them all, only to see a *slight* improvement in my acne, but a worsening in my eczema. But I stuck with it, because that's what I was told to do.

Fast forward to the birth...

For two weeks after dd was born, my acne cleared up and my eczema went away. A miracle!!! Then, BAM! It comes back as quickly as it left. Weird, huh? No change in my diet either.

Then dd wouldn't stop crying, had horrible poos, spitups, etc. so my ND says, "she's reacting to food you are eating. Go see a kinesiologist that I trust and have her test you and the baby."

So I do. I end up eating chicken, peas, carrots, kale, potatoes, rice, olive oil and quinoa for 4 months. NO improvement in dd really now that I look back, and NO improvement in my acne or eczema.

So here we are today. My body is starting to react to things it never did before. I have a bad leaky gut that I believe just got worse the more foods I pulled out. I had some allergen free chocolate cake two days ago and it made me break out and have bad gas. I had this same cake 2 weeks after dd was born with no reaction.

What is going on here?? I am seriously p.o.'d that I ever let my ND do that IgG test. I honestly believe it made everything worse and I think now dd is getting the worst of it.

I have no idea what is going on with my gut and why it's all of a sudden so bad, but I know that I felt a heck of a lot better when I was eating food. A HECK OF A LOT BETTER!

I see my ND today. I love her to death (she's a midwife and delivered dd too) but I just want to scream at her and say, "What have you done to us?" I want to tell her all of this, but I'm afraid it will get brushed aside.

That's all for now.

Let me add another perspective: nutritional and immune system deficiencies as a cause. Especially if you used to be vegan. I was practically vegan too when all this started exept fish and dairy maybe 1-2x week, I had a very deficient diet thru my 20's too.

Pregnancy changes the immune system to TH2 dominent. Perhaps that was the balance that tipped you over to eczema and brought healing when you delivered? Can't say for sure but it's gotta be a factor.

Also your what fats you eat and fat soluble vits greatly influence your skin and strength of immune system. Esp. vitamin A. Maybe your body became even more deficient in some key things when you eliminated foods?

That is my biggest beef with the TED. We are all already coming from years of deficient diets... anyone eating conventionally (even healthy conventional) is deficient. Grocery store foods are crap. Vegetable oils are rancid. Our soils do not contain enough minerals unless supplemented and the food companies don't make $ from doing that. Our animals are fed grains and soy which changes their milk and meat and eggs, so they do not contain the nutrients they should either. And to top it all off: sugar, white flour, and processed foods strip from the body even further what precious few nutrients we have managed to get.

Reading how many issues are effected by even one nutrient being off: selenium, or the B vits which work in tandem, or magnesium, really has given me enormous perspective.

Forgive me for not remembering in your case, but also add things like antibiotics etc. to the mix and it's a wonder we modern humans are still alive and functioning.







:


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crazycat* 
I posted this in a separate post but really haven't gotten any response so thought I would try here and see if anyone had any ideas.

My 2-yo son has been having a lot of stringy, mucousy stools kind of alternating with liquid stools with lots of undigested foods in them. He had this as an infant before I realized he did not tolerate dairy products, but is still currently dairy free, and so am I since he is still nursing. His stools had been fairly normal up until a couple of weeks ago when he started having stools like I mentioned above - at first it was kind of here and there but now it is pretty much constant. Today he had a very small stringy, mucousy stool within a few minutes of eating anything at all. He also had one larger liquid stool with lots of undigested foods as well as a couple larger of the other stools with lots of stringy, mucousy stuff in it. He has not had a "normal stool" at all for several days now.

I talked with our pediatrician's office today and they said just watch it, give him bananas and encourage pasta and mashed potatoes and such since they tend to firm up the stools. He does not have any fevers or other symptoms other than intermittent irritablity so they are not too concerned.

He is very small, about 34 inches, 25 pounds. His appetite tends to fluctuate widely but has not been diminished at all in the last couple of weeks. If anything he is asking to eat and drink more often, which could be partly due to my being about 9 weeks pregnant and my milk supply diminishing somewhat.

What would you think? Does the ped's advice seem appropriate? He does have asthma and takes daily steroid nebulizer treatments along with albuterol nebulizers when necessary. The diarrhea type stools initially started when he was on oral prednisone a couple of weeks ago for an asthma flare but as I said they have just progressed since that time to where we are now. He has not had this type of response after previous oral prednisone courses. In the past couple of days the stools have started making his bottom quite red and sore as well, so he's also uncomfortable from that of course. He does seem to have tummy aches sometimes but that doesn't seem to be frequent and most of the time he is acting pretty much normal.

Thanks so much for any thoughts!

The Ped's advice is not treating this seriously IMO. Maybe a healthy child with intact immune and digestive system would do well on a limited high starch diet for a short time but that is not a diet for healing!

Asthma is just another example of an immune system under attack, like food allergies. In fact, there is something called The Allergy March, which is eczema as infants, then food allergies and then asthma is next step in progression. It is all rooted in immune system. And the immune system runs on essential nutrients and the correct gut flora. But mainstream medicine is sadly blind to those basic facts.

I don't know specifically what steriods do to the gut flora and nutrient load... but I know they can be very damaging to the immune system on a long term basis.

If this stool pattern continues I'd also be concerned he has some sort of serious bug like C. difficile. A virus can change the stool greatly for a short time but the mucus is concerning. I think also if previous doses didn't have this effect it doesn't mean continuing them will not eventually cause some more noticable damage the body cannot recover from as it had before?

I would first get him on high vitamin cod liver oil for immune system support. Try to figure out if he has any food allergies. Start slowly but work up to massive amounts of probiotics. Does he exhibit environmental allergies? My understanding is that mold, dust mites, pets all can make asthma worse if not be cause. (Well, root cause is deficient immune system but ykwim).


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *formerluddite* 
i can't remember what i read that left this sticking in my mind. i'm not sure if researchers actually found food proteins in a person's blood who hadn't eaten that food in years, or if they were postulating a theory as to why someone would continue to react. but the immune system already does this with virus particles, etc.; keeps a bit around to use as a template to make new antibodies with.

I'm pretty sure food proteins actually have been found years after a person stopped ingesting them ... Insider spoke of this in the "How Not to Have an Allergic Child" thread with respect to eggs.

I wish I knew more about the underlying theory and science of a Rotation Diet... we were too in the thick of things for me to research the heck out of it before doing it (I know what a surprise!







) Right now it's working so I have other things competing for my attention.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Thanks JaneS for your insight. I guess now it's knowing where to go from here...

Dd's poops are getting much worse. I haven't really changed my diet, but her poops are SO incredibly mucusy. It's disgusting!! She is getting a teaspoon of probtiotics a day (bifidus-Natren) but I'm wondering if because they claim they are dairy-free, but then say they could contain traces of dairy or soy







: So I don't know what to do now.

She did have about a month and a half of really good poops (no mucus!) after I had been on the TED for 2.5 months. Then the mucus got much worse the more I added in. I honestly don't know if I can take the TED again. I'm already a size 0 and I know I will lose weight on it. I was only eating around 1,000 calories a day for 4 months...

She has been consistently gaining weight all along. Usually she's gained 1-2 pounds a month. She was 16.4 lbs about a month and a half ago. She's 16.15 lbs now. So her weight gain has slowed. Not a whole lot, but when I'm worried about my milk supply, anything that points to her not getting enough worries me! Does weight gain slow around month 6?

What should I do about the mucus? If something is irritating her, the longer it does, the worse she will be in the long run, right?

Also, what the heck is the mucus? Is it the lining of her intestine?


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## ravenna206 (Mar 19, 2007)

I had bad acid reflux for a good month before the doctor knew what it was. Swelling throat and never knew what set if off. That's why it took so long to diagnose. I used this cure and it worked. 1/2 tsp baking soda and 1/2 tsp citric acid with 8oz water take it 1st thing in the morning and before bed. Turns out I was eating things that were too acidy and not enough alkaline. I got it in check now.
The concern with the mucus stool, my youngest went through the same thing. We put her on a rotation diet and did kefir, sauerkraut (homemade). If she eats nuts too many days in a row she will get it. She's doing fine now.
Here's info on mucus: Mucus is a clear, white, or yellow substance with the consistency of jelly that is produced by the mucous membrane of the large intestine. Mucus is also produced by other organs in the body such as the lungs, where it helps to trap any foreign particles that are inhaled. In the intestine, mucus protects the inner lining and helps ease the passage of stool.In ulcerative colitis, the mucus membrane of the intestine becomes inflamed and develops ulcers. These ulcers bleed and produce pus and mucus, which may be visible as they are passed in the stool. In IBS there may be increased mucus production by the lining of the intestine, which is then passed. Mucus is more often associated with diarrhea-predominant IBS. Mucus is less frequent with CD, but may be associated with the development of an anal fissure. Bacterial infections, such as those from Campylobacter, Salmonella, Shigella, and Yersinia may also cause mucus in the stool. A bacterial infection may also cause diarrhea, fever, and abdominal cramps. Some bacterial infections may resolve on their own without treatment, but some cases may be serious and require treatment with antibiotics.
Doesn't seem like your little one has a bacterial in fection which is why the doctor probably wasn't concerned but the other alternatives would worry me. Good luck.


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

Sorry to be a wet blanket here, but can some one explain what is TED ?


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## gilamama (Aug 9, 2005)

i havent read through the whole thread but so some of this may be repeat or moot. i have posted here b4 abt my dh and baby but now my dd is having issues too. dont have much time to post but wanted to give this link abt l-tyrosine that mentions low body temps and I saw something abt prednisone here and that drug works by suppressing adrenal function. which can can cause lots of problems! heres the link

http://www.healthvitaminsguide.com/a...s/tyrosine.htm

happy passover everone!


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## PapayaVagina (May 11, 2002)

I feel so discouraged right now with trying to HTG.

Right now I'm on no wheat, soy, dairy, eggs, nuts, shellfish, tomatoes and beans, dd is getting probiotics x2 a day, has had craniosacral/reiki sessions, and I'm taking vits, omegas, CLO, drinking kefir and kombucha and yet her poop is still greenish ALWAYS.

She is also teething really badly so has been getting some Hyland's (dairy, I know - ugh!) and getting usually Tylenol x1 a day so that she can get some sleep at night (otherwise she wakes up every 15 minutes). Of course, I had to have some minor surgery on my feet and have ended up with an infection as well so am probably headed towards antibiotics and have been taking ibuprofen. #[email protected](%(#U!!!

I think that I'm probably going to start TED next weekend and am crossing my fingers hoping that it will help to calm things down.

Does anyone have any advice for us? Sometimes I just feel like I'm not making any headway whatsoever and that this will never get better. Shouldn't we be seeing some sort of improvement by now?

I was also curious about another question as well. Dd is only 5 months old and so starting solids are still a loooong way off (I want to wait as long as possible anyway because I have so many food allergies) but am nervous about how starting solids might impact the work that we've done on her gut. I'm really hoping that things will be better by then though. Thoughts?


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
If this stool pattern continues I'd also be concerned he has some sort of serious bug like C. difficile.

fyi: a c-dif stool tends to smell sickly sweet, and have a greenish tinge. at my hospital we usually know when someone has c-dif long before the tests come back, because we all know what it smells like.


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## PapayaVagina (May 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *formerluddite* 
fyi: a c-dif stool tends to smell sickly sweet, and have a greenish tinge. at my hospital we usually know when someone has c-dif long before the tests come back, because we all know what it smells like.

any idea what green and sometimes very dark orange peanut butter consistency that smells like vinegar means?







ugh!


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Um...this is kinda weird, but I took a picture of dd's poop and I'm just wondering if I should post it and see if it's the typical "allergic reaction" type poop or something else.

FYI: they smell disgusting...like make me gag disgusting...don't know how to describe it though.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PapayaVagina* 
I feel so discouraged right now with trying to HTG.

Right now I'm on no wheat, soy, dairy, eggs, nuts, shellfish, tomatoes and beans, dd is getting probiotics x2 a day, has had craniosacral/reiki sessions, and I'm taking vits, omegas, CLO, drinking kefir and kombucha and yet her poop is still greenish ALWAYS.

She is also teething really badly so has been getting some Hyland's (dairy, I know - ugh!) and getting usually Tylenol x1 a day so that she can get some sleep at night (otherwise she wakes up every 15 minutes). Of course, I had to have some minor surgery on my feet and have ended up with an infection as well so am probably headed towards antibiotics and have been taking ibuprofen. #[email protected](%(#U!!!

I think that I'm probably going to start TED next weekend and am crossing my fingers hoping that it will help to calm things down.

Does anyone have any advice for us? Sometimes I just feel like I'm not making any headway whatsoever and that this will never get better. Shouldn't we be seeing some sort of improvement by now?

I was also curious about another question as well. Dd is only 5 months old and so starting solids are still a loooong way off (I want to wait as long as possible anyway because I have so many food allergies) but am nervous about how starting solids might impact the work that we've done on her gut. I'm really hoping that things will be better by then though. Thoughts?


I hear ya. I feel the same way. I wonder if I should go back on the TED too, but I'm not sure my body could take it again. I feel like we are getting nowhere. Isn't this frustrating?? Don't you wish there was some doctor out there who could do all the research and give us answers we desperately need?!

Ugh...that's all I have to say. Sorry things are so tough for you


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greencat* 
Sorry to be a wet blanket here, but can some one explain what is TED ?

Total Elimination Diet (basically you eat about four foods, like turkey, rice, and a couple more...I haven't done it so I'm not real familiar with it).


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PapayaVagina* 
I feel so discouraged right now with trying to HTG.

Right now I'm on no wheat, soy, dairy, eggs, nuts, shellfish, tomatoes and beans, dd is getting probiotics x2 a day, has had craniosacral/reiki sessions, and I'm taking vits, omegas, CLO, drinking kefir and kombucha and yet her poop is still greenish ALWAYS.

She is also teething really badly so has been getting some Hyland's (dairy, I know - ugh!) and getting usually Tylenol x1 a day so that she can get some sleep at night (otherwise she wakes up every 15 minutes). Of course, I had to have some minor surgery on my feet and have ended up with an infection as well so am probably headed towards antibiotics and have been taking ibuprofen. #[email protected](%(#U!!!

I think that I'm probably going to start TED next weekend and am crossing my fingers hoping that it will help to calm things down.

Does anyone have any advice for us? Sometimes I just feel like I'm not making any headway whatsoever and that this will never get better. Shouldn't we be seeing some sort of improvement by now?

I was also curious about another question as well. Dd is only 5 months old and so starting solids are still a loooong way off (I want to wait as long as possible anyway because I have so many food allergies) but am nervous about how starting solids might impact the work that we've done on her gut. I'm really hoping that things will be better by then though. Thoughts?

Have you looked into food chemical sensitivities? I think most people who react to tomatoes probably aren't allergic/intolerant to the tomatoes per se, but to the food chemicals in them...tomatoes are high in amines, salicylates, and some other food chemical, too.

I can't say my DD's done a whole lot of healing (for every symptom that goes away it seems another one pops up), but it didn't seem like starting solids really affected her other than making her eczema flare up (probably because I was feeding her coconut oil which she reacted to but it took me months to figure that out). I started her on solids at around 8 1/2 months, took her off them for a month a few weeks later, started them back up, and then took her off again from 10.5 to 12.5 months. She was eating a ton when I finally started them again and had some very stinky stools for a while, but I gave her digestive enzymes with meals and that seemed to fix the problem--now her stools smell okay even when I don't give her enzymes.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Thanks JaneS for your insight. I guess now it's knowing where to go from here...

Dd's poops are getting much worse. I haven't really changed my diet, but her poops are SO incredibly mucusy. It's disgusting!! She is getting a teaspoon of probtiotics a day (bifidus-Natren) but I'm wondering if because they claim they are dairy-free, but then say they could contain traces of dairy or soy







: So I don't know what to do now.

She did have about a month and a half of really good poops (no mucus!) after I had been on the TED for 2.5 months. Then the mucus got much worse the more I added in. I honestly don't know if I can take the TED again. I'm already a size 0 and I know I will lose weight on it. I was only eating around 1,000 calories a day for 4 months...

She has been consistently gaining weight all along. Usually she's gained 1-2 pounds a month. She was 16.4 lbs about a month and a half ago. She's 16.15 lbs now. So her weight gain has slowed. Not a whole lot, but when I'm worried about my milk supply, anything that points to her not getting enough worries me! Does weight gain slow around month 6?

What should I do about the mucus? If something is irritating her, the longer it does, the worse she will be in the long run, right?

Also, what the heck is the mucus? Is it the lining of her intestine?

You could try stopping the probiotics for a bit to see if her stools improve. Did they change at all when you started feeding her solids?

Really the TED is only designed to be done briefly...like do it for a couple of weeks and then add foods in. If you don't have excess weight to lose, you definitely don't want to be on it for long periods of time.

Maybe it would be worth it for you to try the Failsafe elimination diet for a couple of weeks. I've been lurking there quite a bit and there's been some talk lately of how salicylate intolerance can possibly lead to the development of food allergies (even to foods that don't contain salicylates). Or maybe you could consider a rotational diet again--she might react a lot less if you're eating each food only once or twice a week.

You could also try giving her slippery elm bark powder, which is supposed to be good for the gut and very nourishing. I gave it to my DD for a while. Just mix a Tbsp or so of it with enough water or BM to make a baby-cereal consistency mush. You could add a bit of juice for flavoring if you wanted/it was tolerated, too.

I'm sorry things just aren't improving for you--I know how frustrating that is. Wish I had something else to suggest!


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I'm planning on starting the Failsafe elimination diet on Wednesday or Thursday. I'm going to try to do it without grains for at least a week or two, or with only white rice, as I've been having IBS-type symptoms from unsoaked grains (I've tried brown rice, millet, wild rice, and buckwheat and had major gas, bloating, diarrhea, and an upset stomach). Part of me really hopes it works since I'm pretty much done with attempts to heal the gut if it doesn't--I don't know of anything else to try, and frankly I'm tired of trying. But part of me hopes it doesn't work so I don't have to constantly worry about what foods to eat and not being able to eat tomatoes, salads, aged meat, and spices!

We've been visiting relatives for the last 10 days or so and I've been feeding DD a lot of fruit and some rice flour baked goods...figured nothing else was working so it wasn't going to do any harm to let her eat things I don't normally let her have. Her eczema has flared up a bit but in a weird way--her cheeks are kind of red but her skin feels fairly soft. She is sleeping horribly, though, so I think the fruit is negatively affecting her. It sure has been nice to be able to eat a lot of fruit, though!


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
You could try stopping the probiotics for a bit to see if her stools improve. Did they change at all when you started feeding her solids?

Really the TED is only designed to be done briefly...like do it for a couple of weeks and then add foods in. If you don't have excess weight to lose, you definitely don't want to be on it for long periods of time.

Maybe it would be worth it for you to try the Failsafe elimination diet for a couple of weeks. I've been lurking there quite a bit and there's been some talk lately of how salicylate intolerance can possibly lead to the development of food allergies (even to foods that don't contain salicylates). Or maybe you could consider a rotational diet again--she might react a lot less if you're eating each food only once or twice a week.

You could also try giving her slippery elm bark powder, which is supposed to be good for the gut and very nourishing. I gave it to my DD for a while. Just mix a Tbsp or so of it with enough water or BM to make a baby-cereal consistency mush. You could add a bit of juice for flavoring if you wanted/it was tolerated, too.

I'm sorry things just aren't improving for you--I know how frustrating that is. Wish I had something else to suggest!


Her stools have always been a mess and it's hard to tell if they got worse when I started the probiotics because the mucus worsens every now and then and I can never pinpoint it.

She is not eating solids. She had about 5 pieces of carrot (really mashed, but not pureed) and they came out whole in her poops. She hasn't had anything else and doesn't show interested in food anymore since the carrot trial, so delaying will be easier now.

We checked the slippery elm with the kinesiologist and she said it was harmful, but wasn't beneficial either. She said the L-glutamine was 100% beneficial, so I am now giving her 1/2 teaspoon a day with her probiotics in the morning.
So it's okay to mix a little juice in there too? I can't imagine glutamine, probiotics and water are too tastey! What kind of juice would be good? I'm talking like 1/4 of a teaspoon only mixed, just to add some flavor. I react to grape juice (gives me headaches...).


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Her stools have always been a mess and it's hard to tell if they got worse when I started the probiotics because the mucus worsens every now and then and I can never pinpoint it.

She is not eating solids. She had about 5 pieces of carrot (really mashed, but not pureed) and they came out whole in her poops. She hasn't had anything else and doesn't show interested in food anymore since the carrot trial, so delaying will be easier now.

We checked the slippery elm with the kinesiologist and she said it was harmful, but wasn't beneficial either. She said the L-glutamine was 100% beneficial, so I am now giving her 1/2 teaspoon a day with her probiotics in the morning.
So it's okay to mix a little juice in there too? I can't imagine glutamine, probiotics and water are too tastey! What kind of juice would be good? I'm talking like 1/4 of a teaspoon only mixed, just to add some flavor. I react to grape juice (gives me headaches...).

if i recall, glutamine has little taste. the probiotics ought to be a little sweet. i'd try first with just water - heck, *I* would taste it before i gave it to ds. you'd be surprised what kids will scarf down...

(my ds is a major sunflower seed, pumpkin seed, sauerkraut and olive addict right now, with goji berry chasers. but he won't eat almonds. cashews - yes, but almonds no. oh and he loooooves the cinnamon CLO. he prefers his probiotics DRY off the spoon.)


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Hope all of you ladies get this figured out. I am about ready to give up myself. DS's poops are a lot better, unless he eats a ton of fruit. We did SCD for a year, and have slowly added back in grains, but are still mostly gluten free. He does get a bit of sugar now and then now...


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

Caedmyn: Thanks for the explanation of what TED is. And, let me add a short story of my experience with SCD for you and Pookietooth. I hope my story will consider you to stay on SCD.

I started SCD when my dd was 3.5 years old. (she is now 5.5) It took me a good 8mo. to comply 100%, with occasional illegal ingredient. In time we were getting very good results, along with a use of digestive enzyme: No constipation, no tummy ache, no eczema and good sleep at night.

Then, we got off SCD last year because we got too busy with building a new house, cleaning the old house, selling the old house, packing, moving, etc. Well, it took us two months of bad diet to loose all I have done before the move. The kids were starting to loose weight, looking pale and began to have eczema again with foods they over came, like fruits, red foods (salicytes) and eggs. That was when I realized to start makeing SCD yogurt and SCD bread again. So, I did, like a mad scientist (but, in my new kitchen







) I was very fearful that they were going to get sick, and won't be able to get over it with their weakened immune system.

Well, it has been about 6mo. since we got back on SCD. My new house is sill full of boxes, but the kids just cleared on all eczema, and starting to sleep better at nights. We still avoid fruits, but pare, berries or kiwi in the morning if they eat any. And, we still have a lot of foods that we can't eat within the SCD legal foods (ripe banana, grapes, raisins, dates, coconut flakes, honey, too much carrots, etc.) However, the kids are now sleeping better at nights, no constipation, no stuttering, but a daily BM and beautiful skin.

SCD is hard. A matter of fact, one of the hardest diets I know (I used to be a diet counselor) because of the cooking involved. The very few moms I met from Autism support group in my area had all quit (just GFCF). I feel there is few support even on line, since people are new to SCD or won't stay long enough to see the benefit. I strongly hope that you will consider staying on the SCD as much as possible, and get back on it when you can. (So we can share the glory together later.) Remember, the gut heals very slowly and progress are not very easily visible (that is until you get off the diet.)

Here is another reason you may want to stay on SCD. We live in Iowa where weather is rather humid in a spring with lots of rain and through out the summer (the very reason why moldy corns grows well here.) My DS had seizure from a spike of a high temperature when he was one years old. Then, again last year for the second time, both around this time of the year. He is having a cold, and running a temperature again, this year (with days of rain.) I was very fearful of him having another seizure. He did not have much of an appetite either, but ate SCD yogurt twice a day. He still has the cough and runny nose today, but no temp and no seizure.

I also wondered why we still have some symptoms of yeast over growth; like a bad breath and redness under the penis when my DS eats too much carrots, etc? We are on the hard core SCD now with no honey, banana, carrots, etc, and I feel we are still at the tip of the scale on "Over growth," as if the yeast had grown the resistance. A matter of fact, I found some article on yeast growing resistance. I don't really understand how, and which kind, but I feel getting off the SCD was part of a reason why we are having a harder time to control yeast. I don't think this damp weather helps our situation either...

If anyone has some insights, please write.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Um...this is kinda weird, but I took a picture of dd's poop and I'm just wondering if I should post it and see if it's the typical "allergic reaction" type poop or something else.

FYI: they smell disgusting...like make me gag disgusting...don't know how to describe it though.

It could be any kind of bad bacteria. My DS had Klebsiella and Proteus and Citrobacter (detected on stool tests) at different times.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*Greencat,*

Are you doing any other probiotics than yogurt? what kind of starter?

What about digestive enzymes with and between meals?

The biggest beef I have with SCD for small kids is the food allergy issue. A leaky gut + immature immune system = automatic food allergies in our experience.

*PapayaVagina,*

Please stop the Tylenol, that is SO bad for the digestive lining. I know you want to beat me over the head for saying that... b/c I've so been there with the sleeping issues ... but I think that is one of the early mistakes we made too. What about some homeopathics in water instead of lactose base? Boiron makes Camillia and Colic ones.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Um...this is kinda weird, but I took a picture of dd's poop and I'm just wondering if I should post it and see if it's the typical "allergic reaction" type poop or something else.

FYI: they smell disgusting...like make me gag disgusting...don't know how to describe it though.











PM it to Teresa!


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

Hey Jane; good to hear from you.

We do the SCD 24hr. yogurt from organic (store bought) goat milk for my DD5, and nut yogurt for my DS3. I use starter called "ProGurt." I also sprinkle one cap of ProBio or Metagenic's Dairy Free probiotics on the yogurt.

I am waiting for my veg. pickle maker (a container with special lids) and the starter in the mail, so I can add more rotten foods to our regime. I am still intimidated about Kefier... but looking into coconut Kefier.

The hardest thing in the state of IOWA is to find raw milk. The dairy industry/corporation had made sure the farmers of Iowa were not to speak of raw milk years ago. My kids are now getting more tolerable to dairy, I have been searching, but with not much of luck.

We are just starting with the enzymes b/w the meals in small doses, since they tend to constipate if I give them too much.

I chose SCD because we ate a lot of rice and soy products which were constipating factor for us. And, my son had seizures (due to a sudden rise of temp) and I wanted a diet that was aware of issues of immune system, seizure and Autism (I have been dx with LD and ADD, and my kids stuttered.) At most, I like the SCD yogurt. I also like some of the idea from Nourishing Tradition and Eating of Garden, but not very familiar with their ingredients and eating raw meat, etc. I do cook soup bones accordingly, though.

Anyway, I am also venturing out with Natto, sea vegg and dried fish broth that are SCD illegal. I just wanted to start with a solid concept to follow with.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

greencat--we did the SCD for almost 3 months and saw very little improvement, so I don't think it was going to work for us. Plus DD is intolerant to so many of the foods on it that it would be pretty difficult now (no nuts, eggs, coconut oil, or dairy).

Have you looked at the Failsafe diet at all? It is possible to do that and the SCD...if you know your kids react to high salicylate or high phenol foods that might be something to consider to help get on top of the yeast.

mum2be--it'd be better not to give your DD juice if she's not getting solids, unless that's the only way you can get her to take the probiotics/etc...you could always try mixing them with BM if she doesn't like them mixed with water.


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## acupuncturemomma (Dec 31, 2005)

I hope this is the right place to ask:
I need help choosing probiotics for my 7-month-old.

I'm sure she needs them; she's just getting over a little bout of diarrhea/mucusy poop, and is now pooping more often than usual.
Also, she was put in the NICU at 5 hours old and placed on IV antibiotics for one day (that's another story--one that still breaks my heart)...

Anyway, we did give her Jarrodophilus after the NICU, but now I'm worried that may have been a really bad call, as it does say on the bottle that it contains dairy and soy (that brand didn't used to say that, if I remember correctly). Did we mess up her gut? I'm so sad about it, and now unsure which brand of probiotics to use. Even the infant Jarrodophilus contains dairy!

Is there anything I can do to counteract the dairy/soy that she ingested so early on? I'm worried about it since it's recommended for babies to avoid soy & dairy until they're 12+ months old.


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

caedmyn: I will look into the Falsesafe diet. Thank you.

And, regarding SCD, we also started with a long list of foods that resulted in cry outs, tummy ache, eczema, stuttering, diaper rash, chronic constipation, interrupted sleep at nights, etc. I won't deny SCD is hard, and you don't see the results right a way. Often, you see the benefit after you get off the SCD (because your condition will worsen.)

When I read the book, "Breaking the Vicious Cycle," the concept hit me like a lightening bolt: I believed in her concept. Yet, I think one of the biggest reasons I was able to do it so long is due to the fact that I am a stay-at-home mom, and we did the SCD as a family, with very supportive husband. It worked for us since I was still nursing my son, and my first born was not yet exposed to the attractive "processed" foods. (Not that she was ever going to.) Yeast was an issue from the moment my baby was born, so it was my focus point. The fact I worked as a diet counselor and managed the health food store (including menu plans and cooking) may have been an added bonus, too.

The biggest key to my success was to write down everything we/they ingested. When I made the connect-the-dot with wheat = eczema, finding culprits and strengthening the immune system was my mission (and still is.) So, it became our life style. I excluded synthetic materials out of our life as much as possible, installed air cleaner, went completely organic foods, organic cotton clothes/futon, natural cleaners and personal care products (which I was very familiar with, since I am a former cosmetologist who worked at Aveda Concept Salons) to avoid possible cause of their immune system to be over loaded. Which this was the reason we moved out of our old house, and custom build the current home with no or low VOC material. Since, it took me good 8mo. or so to comply with SCD, and felt comfortable with recipes, figured everything SCD lega/illegall foods, I was yet totally focused with SCD and did not think about including anything new into our diet. I stayed busy finding a way to eat what we can from SCD recipes, do the enzymes religiously and eat SCD yogurt everyday. I was also busy looking at floor plans, choosing the building materials, etc to build the new house. So, staying with the SCD were easier than intorducing something they may end up in cry outs and eczema: I stayed where I knew it was safe for the kids. Which may have elongated the healing period. That is until the closing date came closer.

It has been about six months since we had re-started the SCD. And we are now just starting to see the good results: We can now eat eggs, etc again. Many people give up on GFCF or SCD before the gut had a chance to heal. I think, I've read it can take up to six months for gluten to be completely be out of your sys.

Supplementing with digestive enzyme does help. You just have to be patient about fining the enzyme that helps you the best, the timing to take it and the doses or frequencies that helps you the most. I can't speak as a fact, but I feel you will better respond to enzymes if your body is free from trigger foods. We were on SCD for a while before we tried enzymes. I attended Karen DeFelci's conference since she lives in Iowa. We made our share of mistakes, but others (Moms of Autistic children) who were not on SCD, but on GFCF seemed to have more bad reactions, especially with wrong enzyme.

The SCD yogurt worked wonder on my kids. I started with SCD nut milk yogurt when my kids couldn't eat cow's or goat's milk. Now my DS3 can eat goat's in moderation.

Another reason why I stuck with the SCD may be due to the fact I had no other place to go to, with a long list of foods that we couldn't eat. SCD gave me ideas, structure and plans in my diet. You may call it a blind faith.

I speak of pro-SCD, but I don't know if SCD will work for all because everyone's gut/immune situation is different, as well as our living condition, weather, medical/dental history; economical situation for buying all these foods and time to prepare the recipes, accessibility to certain foods, like raw milk in my case. Everyone heals differently, too. Matter of fact, now my kids are eczema free, I am focusing on the healing foods that helps probiotics to stick to the gut better. I feel SCD is a bit short on that topic. I am also doing various detox remedies for myself.

SCD is also difficult because you invite questions like "So, what do your kids really eat?","Is it going to cure your condition?","What does your peds say about that?" These lines of questioning often comes from people who are close to your heart. I don't discuss my health care or diet practice with anyone except on line and with my husband anymore: I'm too busy cooking.

If you read the book, Breaking the Vicious Cycle, and decide to give a go, I highly recommend studying the web site pecanbread.com (both old and the new) throughly.

Greencat


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

*Has anyone healed their food senstivities?* Is there a good book/link/diet for this? I do WAPF diet (minus eggs, dairy, tomatoes, gluten, all grains excpet rice(which will probably have to go) and many more random foods) Right now my diet is mainly meats, broths, veggies, water kefir, kombucha, coconut/olive oil and fruit/honey sparingly.

Caedmyn-I checked out failsafe and the chemicals don't seem to be the issue for me.

Here is the issue. I have Lyme and when I start eating my IgG reactive foods (according to an Immunolabs bloodtest) I don't notice any difference right away but I will get worse arthritis/aches over the course of a few weeks. Tomatoes- I do get a headache right away. And grains do make me feel fat. What I do not understand is how I eat dairy/eggs/ect. foods my whole life without feeling bad, but now I am sensitive to them?

I would love to be able to have either dairy or eggs back in my diet someday. Is it possible? I am so frusterated tat I can't seem to find an answer to this. Even the practioners who ordered my allergy blood test don't seem to get what I am asking.

Thank you,
Jen

I just found this, but there is not that much detail on healing-http://www.rwood.com/Articles/Cure_F...sitivities.htm


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newcastlemama* 
*Has anyone healed their food senstivities?* Is there a good book/link/diet for this? I do WAPF diet (minus eggs, dairy, tomatoes, gluten, all grains excpet rice(which will probably have to go) and many more random foods) Right now my diet is mainly meats, broths, veggies, water kefir, kombucha, coconut/olive oil and fruit/honey sparingly.

Caedmyn-I checked out failsafe and the chemicals don't seem to be the issue for me.

Here is the issue. I have Lyme and when I start eating my IgG reactive foods (according to an Immunolabs bloodtest) I don't notice any difference right away but I will get worse arthritis/aches over the course of a few weeks. Tomatoes- I do get a headache right away. And grains do make me feel fat. What I do not understand is how I eat dairy/eggs/ect. foods my whole life without feeling bad, but now I am sensitive to them?

I would love to be able to have either dairy or eggs back in my diet someday. Is it possible? I am so frusterated tat I can't seem to find an answer to this. Even the practioners who ordered my allergy blood test don't seem to get what I am asking.

Thank you,
Jen

I just found this, but there is not that much detail on healing-http://www.rwood.com/Articles/Cure_F...sitivities.htm

I think if your gut heals there's a chance you'll be able to do dairy or eggs again...it works that way for some people.

If you have arthritis symptoms, maybe lectins are a problems for you. Here's a link...http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html#Become

When you eat foods that you're sensitive to every day, your body basically has to cope the best it can, so you might have a bunch of tiny symptoms that you don't even realize aren't normal...whereas when you eliminate the food your body stops reacting, so when you suddenly add it back in you see a dramatic reaction. That's what I've read, anyway.

You might try posting your symptoms on either the NN or FailsafeNT yahoo groups--someone named Chris is on those and he is really knowledgeable about different things that can cause different types of reactions. He's the one who helped me figure out that I was reacting to amines.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
I think if your gut heals there's a chance you'll be able to do dairy or eggs again...it works that way for some people.



i disagree. i am pretty certain that i react to casein, not because i can't digest it but because when it gets digested, the beta-casomorphin latches onto the opioid receptors elsewhere in my body and makes things go loopy. turns out that gluten has similar proteins (opioid-like peptides) and my current 95% GF diet seems to help me focus a bit more clearly. codeine (an opiate) did really weird things to me the one or two times i took it after major surgery years ago. so, in my own case, i'm pretty sure my reactions are because of my body chemistry to opiates and related compounds. i doubt that any more gut healing will help that out.

i think one really needs to understand one's underlying reason for reactions before one would know if gut healing would wipe away all food reactions. for some (like myself) this is probably pretty straightforward; for others, it is probably not so clear.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
i disagree. i am pretty certain that i react to casein, not because i can't digest it but because when it gets digested, the beta-casomorphin latches onto the opioid receptors elsewhere in my body and makes things go loopy. turns out that gluten has similar proteins (opioid-like peptides) and my current 95% GF diet seems to help me focus a bit more clearly. codeine (an opiate) did really weird things to me the one or two times i took it after major surgery years ago. so, in my own case, i'm pretty sure my reactions are because of my body chemistry to opiates and related compounds. i doubt that any more gut healing will help that out.

i think one really needs to understand one's underlying reason for reactions before one would know if gut healing would wipe away all food reactions. for some (like myself) this is probably pretty straightforward; for others, it is probably not so clear.

I think you misunderstood me to be saying that once your gut heals you'll be able to tolerate all foods again, when I was actually saying that for some people gut healing will allow tolerance of some or all foods they previously reacted to. There are a lot of different reasons why someone would react to dairy besides a straight immunological response to casein. In some cases improved nutritional status or liver support might eliminate reactions.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
In some cases improved nutritional status or liver support might eliminate reactions.

and in other cases, those reactions may still occur. if one has a mutation in a metabolic pathway ( or two or three...) that prevents one's body from breaking down a specific compound (which, when not broken down, causes a variety of allergic style reactions), gut healing will not necessarily help the body cope with those reactions.

at some point, genetics does play a role. if you don't have the metabolic machinery, immune support is only going to have so much mileage.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newcastlemama* 
What I do not understand is how I eat dairy/eggs/ect. foods my whole life without feeling bad, but now I am sensitive to them?

as caedmyn said, you just may not have noticed that you were sensitive to them before. headaches? skin issues? post nasal drip? recurrent "colds" (sinusitis or otitis media)? digestive issues? all of those are symptoms of food intolerances (they're also symptoms of other conditions, but lots of conditions have overlapping symptoms).


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
and in other cases, those reactions may still occur. if one has a mutation in a metabolic pathway ( or two or three...) that prevents one's body from breaking down a specific compound (which, when not broken down, causes a variety of allergic style reactions), gut healing will not necessarily help the body cope with those reactions.

at some point, genetics does play a role. if you don't have the metabolic machinery, immune support is only going to have so much mileage.

I'm not saying that any one thing is a cure-all, or even that all things can be cured! I'm just saying that these are things that might help some people and thus are worth exploring. I'm not trying to imply that that's the case in your situation!


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

Thanks for responding ladies. I will look into the things mentioned.

I do have a sensitivty to most of the letchin foods! Thank you for the lead Caedmyn! I came back allergic to all the lechin foods listed except peanuts, eggplant and soy. But, I stopped soy when I was a veg because I gave me horrible stomach cramps.

That would make sense that I may not have been noticing reactions when I was eating the stuff all the time. I used to have really bad cat/dog/pollen allergies until I cut out cereal, milk, and sugar. I thought it was the sugar, but it was probably the wheat+dairy. Now I have a St. Bernard, 4 cats, and live in the forest without any of the allergy symptoms (puffy, itchy red eyes, congestion) that I took perscription meds for! I don't struggle with my weight anymore, even though I eat a lot. The more I think about it, I did have low-grade symptoms of food allergies.

Okay. I just need to stop whining and find some more cavewoman meat, nut, and produce recipies









Thank you again,
Jen


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newcastlemama* 

Okay. I just need to stop whining and find some more cavewoman meat, nut, and produce recipies









Thank you again,
Jen


if you're ever looking for interesting stuff, firefaery often posts recipes that are raw - very yummy stuff. look in the raw food threads for some ideas, though they're a bunch of vegans so don't expect to find raw meat ideas there! it would definitely cover your veggie, fruit and nut requirements. i'm sure you already know about the Garden of Eating book - isn't that suppsoed to address your cavewoman needs?


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Thanks greencat for your experience with the SCD. I am contemplating going on it, but it's so hard with the time it requires for cooking and dd is still so fussy and needs to be entertained constantly. If I even try to clean the dishes, she has a fit and cries the whole time. So I don't know how it would be possible unless I got some pretty heavy duty ear plugs








Also, the expense...since January alone we have over $2,000 worth of medical bills for dd and I that insurance isn't covering.







Our grocery bill is high enough with all of the organic, free range, grass fed meats I have to eat. I just don't know how we could swing it in hopes of it making a difference.

So, I beg to differ on the reactions only seeming worse now when we eat a "bad" food because we didn't notice how bad we were feeling before. I was feeling great, then I got pregnant and didn't feel so hot. When I removed the foods confirmed positive on the IgG test, I only felt worse and worse. I know I may be a special case here or something. It seems like the more restricted my diet gets, the worse off I am. Yet dd is still clearly reacting to somethign I am eating, hence the mucus poos and spit ups. But I honestly can't cut out anything else. The hard part is knowing if she's reacting on her own, or if she's reacting to something my body is reacting to, but I don't know I do.

Does that make any sense?

I have to go now as dd is requiring my attention! I have more to write later. I am seeing an internist this afternoon and will let you know what he thinks of all this...


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
I'm not saying that any one thing is a cure-all, or even that all things can be cured! I'm just saying that these are things that might help some people and thus are worth exploring. I'm not trying to imply that that's the case in your situation!

heh - i know what you're saying.

there have been a few queries about "has anyone been healed?" that i'm just tossing this notion of genetics as a real possibility - one that seems to have been overlooked in many of our threads.

there are some who won't be able to be "healed" in this sense, because their genetics and accompanying body chemistry doesn't function that way. healing the gut may boost the immune system and reduce some reactions (like newcastlemama's dog/cat allergies). however, if a myriad of elimination-style diets has yielded only some results and one still reacts to specific foods (most likely a narrow? group with shared features), one should consider genetics as a possible cause - and that those foods are likely going to be mostly verboten. unless, of course, one is prepared to live with (and not complain about) the resulting reaction.

not only do we not know how digestion and the immune system really work, we know just as little about cell metabolism. one of the hottest fields right now for us is "metabolomics" - the intersection of cell metabolism and genomics. if we don't know that much in the fruit fly (a model organism with a distinguished history and about which we know plenty), we probably know even less in humans.


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
if you're ever looking for interesting stuff, firefaery often posts recipes that are raw - very yummy stuff. look in the raw food threads for some ideas, though they're a bunch of vegans so don't expect to find raw meat ideas there! it would definitely cover your veggie, fruit and nut requirements. i'm sure you already know about the Garden of Eating book - isn't that suppsoed to address your cavewoman needs?

I got the _Garden of Eating_ for Christamas and like it except I disagree with them on fat. I realy like is www.paleofood.com. I like raw too, I just need a lot of meat at this time because I am recovering from anemia.

*About the genetics*-The nutritonist I am working with says that I may not do well on grains because of my strong Scandinavian ancestry. She also said that they eat a lot of game/fish and maybe that is why a diet higher in meats is working so well for me.

*Mum2be*-That must be frustrating. I understand what you mean seem to be getting more senstive even though your diet is stricter. I don't know why it happens though.
I was re-reading some of Nutrion and Physical Degeneration and some people lived on very limited diets, especially far north native americans. I have been thinking--why did they not develop sensitvities to they repeated meats, nuts, fruits? Or the Isolated Swiss to the stapes of dairy and rye? All I can tink is 1)They were not dealing with modern toxins 2) They were born with very good guts-passed on from their mother, then nurse, then given the highest quality of foods 3) They were eating the foods that their genetics thrived on. (I hope that all makes sense. I am pondering while writing)

It is hard to afford the food, dr bills and all that.







s I try and remember that if I focus on the quality foods then my dr bills will hopefully decrease over time. I am even having my brother get us a deer this year (all I have to pay for is the tag and processing) and I am going trout fishing to supplement. Jen


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 

there have been a few queries about "has anyone been healed?" that i'm just tossing this notion of genetics as a real possibility - one that seems to have been overlooked in many of our threads.

there are some who won't be able to be "healed" in this sense, because their genetics and accompanying body chemistry doesn't function that way. healing the gut may boost the immune system and reduce some reactions (like newcastlemama's dog/cat allergies). however, if a myriad of elimination-style diets has yielded only some results and one still reacts to specific foods (most likely a narrow? group with shared features), one should consider genetics as a possible cause - and that those foods are likely going to be mostly verboten. unless, of course, one is prepared to live with (and not complain about) the resulting reaction.

Interesting notion and I'm sure it plays a part, but what about for us who never showed any reaction to foods before and then all of a sudden did? I grew up without any problems until I hit my teenage years and dealt with headaches and migraines. Then I got pregnant and everything else started. I just wish we knew more and had answers...


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

So I don't even want to mention how the appt. with the internist my ND recommended went. He basically looked at me like I had three heads, was completely stupid, and was complaining about problems that didn't exist and that I didn't have...

He told me that he doesn't believe in "leaky gut" and told me to start eating more foods. At least he told me to stay away from wheat/gluten. He did remark on how high our grocery bills must be







He also said, "have you ever taken a survey for PPD?" I was like, dude...DO NOT tell me that I am sick because I'm depressed. Don't tell me that my eczema, my acne, my stomach problems, dd's reactions to foods I consume are all due to PPD!!!!























Then he ordered another IgG/IgA (what's the IgA??) for gluten and wants me back in three weeks for more thyroid tests. I told him that I had thyroid tests done less than a month ago and I doubt they would have changed. He also told me that I felt better while on the T3 therapy for Wilson's Temperature Syndrome because it's like taking speed. He then said that it's not a real treatment for anything, blah blah blah!!

Okay, enough of that. I could rant and rant about this guy because I am so fed up with our medical system. My ND has been a godsend because she's the only one that believes that anything is going on in my body, even if she doesn't know what the heck to do about it, at least she listens to me!!

Totally off topic, but I am going to start making goat's yogurt with my new maker and I have a couple of questions:

1) If I am using goat's milk, why would I need a dairy free starter? Doesn't that defeat the purpose?!

2) I heard that you shouldn't heat raw milk up to the 180 degrees because it destroys the enzymes, but on the pecanbread.com website, it says to. Should I?


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

Mum2be- If you noticed problems from post-partum onward that is a sign of nutritional defiency. I had a lot of them and I am feeling so much better. No amount of food elimination could have gotten me to this point because I was depleated. Gale Foce (Amanda) has a website about rebuilding after pregnancy. Look up her name and the link is in her siggie. I eat a tradtional foods diet and then targeted my defiencies with supplements, especially Total Minerals with Iron by County Life.
Gotta go!
Jen


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Interesting notion and I'm sure it plays a part, but what about for us who never showed any reaction to foods before and then all of a sudden did? I grew up without any problems until I hit my teenage years and dealt with headaches and migraines. Then I got pregnant and everything else started. I just wish we knew more and had answers...

from what i understand, puberty knocks around your hormones and changes minerals/vitamin requirements (esp. zinc, magnesium, etc). that you had heachaches/migraines indicates a magnesium deficiency. if you were (minimally) magnesium deficient going into pregnancy, pregnancy could have sent you into magnesium depletion. i just read something about this earlier today but the paper is sitting at work.

have you tried taking a magnesium supplement? if not, having btdt, i'd start with small doses for a few days, starting around lunch time and taking a dose every couple of hours. if, by the time you go to bed, you haven't reached your bowel tolerance, you could increase the dose size the next day. it could take WEEKS to rebuild your supply. after that, you should be able to back off the frequency of doses (every other day) and perhaps taper down to once a week. trust me that you WILL be able to tell the signs of magnesium deficiency (for your body) once you've resaturated your tissues. oh, epsom salt baths are also a good way of both detoxing and boosting magnesium stores. take your dc into the tub with you as you both will benefit.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 

If you have arthritis symptoms, maybe lectins are a problems for you. Here's a link...http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html#Become

Thanks a ton for this link! I react to a lot of these although I don't think nightshade is a problem for me. It even mentions PCOS, which I have, and how a low carb diet helps (it does!). Now it makes sense! Wow!

One thing, though, is that there are a lot of experiments with people taking antibiotics to improve rheumatic illnesses (although not curing them), so there is an environmental factor at work too.


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

To answer yogurt question, you don't need to use DF starter but other yogurt starter, if you want. Many SCD'ers are casein sensitive. Therefore, they use DF starter. The pourpose of eating SCD yogurt is not for "dairy" intake, but for the probiotics that you culture in it, and enzyme. Matter of fact, if you make yogurt in SCD recipe, you are incubating it for 24hr. which makes it lactose free.

You need to cook it till 180F, but do not pass 185F for goat milk, but I don't know the exact temp for raw goat milk. Some people heat it very low (110-115), some don't even bother to heat it. The higher temp is needed for cow's. You also need to cool the goat milk below 77F. I usually cool it to 64ish. This is to avoid the theramal shock for the starters. You want them to be as cozy in the new milk-bed for them to grow.

If you are using a yogurt maker, you may want to keep the cooking theramometer in the milk as you keep incubating. Or, test your yogurt maker's temp to be sure it is not too hot. Yogurt makers are made to incubate cow's milk which takes higher temperture.

By the way, if your bebe can't tolerate goat yogurt, drain the whey in the ref for few hrs.

good luck


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

Pookietooth: There are many disease that respond well with anti-candida treatments; rhumatoid arthritus is one of them. Getting on the anti-biotics seems very wrong thing to do... at least, to me.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greencat* 
To answer yogurt question, you don't need to use DF starter but other yogurt starter, if you want. Many SCD'ers are casein sensitive. Therefore, they use DF starter. The pourpose of eating SCD yogurt is not for "dairy" intake, but for the probiotics that you culture in it, and enzyme. Matter of fact, if you make yogurt in SCD recipe, you are incubating it for 24hr. which makes it lactose free.

You need to cook it till 180F, but do not pass 185F for goat milk, but I don't know the exact temp for raw goat milk. Some people heat it very low (110-115), some don't even bother to heat it. The higher temp is needed for cow's. You also need to cool the goat milk below 77F. I usually cool it to 64ish. This is to avoid the theramal shock for the starters. You want them to be as cozy in the new milk-bed for them to grow.

If you are using a yogurt maker, you may want to keep the cooking theramometer in the milk as you keep incubating. Or, test your yogurt maker's temp to be sure it is not too hot. Yogurt makers are made to incubate cow's milk which takes higher temperture.

By the way, if your bebe can't tolerate goat yogurt, drain the whey in the ref for few hrs.

good luck

So are you saying that incubating for 24 hours removes the casein from the reg. starter anyway? I'm pretty sure I'm lactose intolerant and I know dd reacts to dairy. I'm not consuming this for "dairy" intake, I'm doing it for the probiotics.

So heating goat's milk only to 115 degrees is okay? I don't want to risk bad bacteria growing, but I don't want to destroy the good ones either.

I'm using the Euro Cuisine yogurt maker with the little glass jars, so I don't know how I'd stick a thermometer in there while it was on. Any ideas? I was wondering about this as I don't know how high the temperature gets in there.

How do you drain the whey?

I'm totally new to this, and while I've read some of the Probiotics thread from goodpapa, I seriously can't filter the right information from like 20+ pages!

If I wanted to add some of my DF probiotic powder to make it even more "potent", when and how much do I add?

Thanks so much for the info!!


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greencat* 
Pookietooth: There are many disease that respond well with anti-candida treatments; rhumatoid arthritus is one of them. Getting on the anti-biotics seems very wrong thing to do... at least, to me.

I'm beginning to think that the reason that candida diets work for many people is not because so many people have candida, but because candida diets tend to be low in lectins and salicylates. That's also probably at least part of why the SCD is helpful for some (because it's low in lectins).


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Healing The Gut mamas.

This place was my home for a solid year. I didn't go to any other threads during that time.

This is the place where I found out about all the ways to heal myself and my dd.

(See "The Gut Brain Connection" page on my site - - link in siggy.)

I've read some about you wondering if anyone was healed. I am.







DD is getting there.

I stopped posting over here because I sort of ran out of things to say and wanted to start focusing on the *positive* in our lives, rather than continually focus on what was wrong. (I did that for about 18 months.







)

Anyway, just wanted to say







to Jane, Bluets, Caedmyn and whoever else is still over here posting.








to you all.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
So are you saying that incubating for 24 hours removes the casein from the reg. starter anyway? I'm pretty sure I'm lactose intolerant and I know dd reacts to dairy. I'm not consuming this for "dairy" intake, I'm doing it for the probiotics.

So heating goat's milk only to 115 degrees is okay? I don't want to risk bad bacteria growing, but I don't want to destroy the good ones either.

I'm using the Euro Cuisine yogurt maker with the little glass jars, so I don't know how I'd stick a thermometer in there while it was on. Any ideas? I was wondering about this as I don't know how high the temperature gets in there.

How do you drain the whey?

I'm totally new to this, and while I've read some of the Probiotics thread from goodpapa, I seriously can't filter the right information from like 20+ pages!

If I wanted to add some of my DF probiotic powder to make it even more "potent", when and how much do I add?

Thanks so much for the info!!









Culturing the yogurt for 24 hours removes the lactose--breaks it down into galactose. It does not affect the casein. If your DD reacts to dairy it's pretty unlikely that she's reacting to the lactose component, so she probably won't tolerate 24 hour yogurt, either (unless she does okay with goat milk and you make goat milk yogurt). Dripping the yogurt/removing the whey will probably remove some of the milk proteins, but I doubt it would be enough to cause no reaction in your DD.

You add the probiotic powder when you add the yogurt starter (or you can culture yogurt with just probiotic powder. If you're using the custom probiotics powder you probably only need about 1/8 tsp, but probably more like 1/2 tsp for other probiotics that have fillers. That's just a guess, though.

It's okay to only heat raw milk to 115 degrees (enzyme destruction begins at around 118 degrees) but pasturized milk needs to be heated to 180 degrees. You can't add the starter until the milk's cooled to about 110 degrees either way.

You can do a trial run with your yogurt maker and water...just heat the water to around 110 degrees and then stick the cups in the yogurt maker and check the temperature every hour or so to make sure it's staying at the right temperature.


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newcastlemama* 
*Has anyone healed their food senstivities?* Is there a good book/link/diet for this?

I don't have much time to write right now, but wanted to chime in to say that I'm very optimistic that we are on our way to healing. I can now eat some previous trigger foods sparingly without DD reacting, and overall, she is getting better. We are still having issues with height gain, but my ped is about to conclude that maybe she is just going to be short (none of the family is tall, so this wouldn't be a shocker).

I wrote a really long post about our story a few weeks ago, but wanted to chime in here to say that I do think SCD really helped us, though it took me a while to figure out that the high food chemical content of coconut, nuts and honey were negatively affecting our progress (since I was all about those on SCD). I was doing SCD without dairy or eggs so I was focused a lot on coconut and nut butters.

I also wanted to add that I think the stress of dealing with all of this is really damaging for your gut, too. I had to really focus on keeping things positive and not getting down while sitting in front of the computer in all my spare time reading everything that might be wrong with us.

the time stress was the hardest for me. i work outside the home fulltime, and finding time to make everything was crazy. When I finally progressed to being able to eat salads, i was overjoyed and life became so much easier.

So, we're still healing and learning, but wanted to add our story since it is sometimes helpful to see that there mioght be a light at the end of the tunnel . . .


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

mum2be: caedmy maybe right, but try the SCD yogurt anyway. At least, you'll know what may and may not work.

My kids were sensitive to both lactose and whey(milk protein) at first, and that is why I started with the nut milk yogurt.

To drain the whey, put a cheese cloth (I use a large cotton, dish cloth) over a strainer, tie the top, and keep a bowl under the strainer to catch the whey. Keep it in the ref for 30min to few hrs. The trick is, longer you drain the yogurt, and firmer it will become (a bit more like a pudding consistency to soft, cream cheese like consistency.) Also, the yogurt will taste tart if you drain longer. If your bebe can eat fruits, and dislike the tartness, you may want to make a smoothie with a bit of fruit. You can also freeze it to make it a popsicle.

Are you using raw goat milk or store bought? If you are using the store bought, cook it until it reaches 180F. I usually do 182F. And try different goat milk. One brand may come out creamier than the other.

The REAL KEY TO SUCCESS with goat milk yogurt here is you need to cool it to a ROOM TEMPERTURE (77 or below) before you add any starter.

The Starter: Another easy mistake you can make is not knowing how much starter to use: More the better don't apply here. We are trying to grow the beneficial bacteria, and you can kill them easy if you don't create the cozy place for them to grow. Measure carefully according to the portion of milk you are using. You don't want to over crowd them.

The Temperatures: You can grow bad bacteria easily, too, and this yogurt is for the kids with bad guts: You want to be careful about growing only the good bacteria. If you incubate in high temp, the good guys will die and you will grow the bad ones. If you don't cool the milk low enough, you will kill the starter in thermo shock.

I have the Euro Cuisine, too. Love the little jars, but it was too hot for goat (fine for the cow's.) I tried to put towel under the jars, keep the lids cracked open a bit, but I can't make it as fine as I can in my oven. I got tired of wasting the time and milk, so I use my oven. Mine has the temperature control starting from 100F. I set mine at 110F for goat (lower if you are making nut milk yo.) It works since I can incubate 2qts at a time. I just have to schedule my baking and use of oven better (I wish I had two ovens.)

Regarding your question of adding more probiotics on your yogurt, the 'more' doesn't work well here again; at least at the beginning. If you give too much probiotics at first, you can create bigger "die off" and/or diarrhea. You would be better off paying attention to eat the yogurt every day, and alone in the morning: Letting the stomach digest it better. You can add extra probiotics on the yogurt later.

I hope I answered all your questions. Let me just add, making yogurt was very intimidating to me at first, where people were telling me "Oh, it's very easy." Well&#8230; I don't think it is "Easy" at all. The concept of making yogurt is simple: Heat it , cool it and wait till it is half rotten. Yet, you are culturing bacteria for your kid's consumptions ('with a bad gut' to add a little pressure here.) You may make a mistake here or there at first, but that's o.k. I burned the milk on the first try. I didn't know how quickly the milk burnt on the bottom. Finding your ways in your kitchen is another key to success. You may want to make a cheat sheet on your own words, or have all the utensils laid out before you start cooking the milk, etc.

Good luck


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

Annikate and LovinLiviLou-It is great that you both have had progress!!!

ITA about staying positive--I sometimes get overwhelmed with my health issues so I have to think about how far I have come and that I am on my way to wellness. I will always have Lyme disease, but I think that I can a least get the pain to stop because it has decreased so much already.

Jen


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou* 
I also wanted to add that I think the stress of dealing with all of this is really damaging for your gut, too. I had to really focus on keeping things positive and not getting down while sitting in front of the computer in all my spare time reading everything that might be wrong with us.


This is exactly what has kept me away from here. I don't mean to offend anyone but it was time for *me* to get away from what was wrong and focus on what was *right* yk?

It helps healing immensely to change your frame of mind and how you think about things.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Thanks greencat! Perhaps I will use the oven. Bummer...because I just bought the yogurt maker thinking that would be easier







Maybe I can still return it.

Annikate-Thanks for your success story! Your website is great. I know you don't want to be endorsing the brands of supplements you were using, but I'd love to know the enzymes/probiotics, etc. you were using.

I think being positive is key, but one of the hardest things to do when everything seems to be against you! Have you all watched "The Secret" or something?!







I try and try, but everything keeps snowballing and it's really hard on little to no sleep. But I'm trying and the fact that we make it through everyday is a good thing, right?







But I'm going to keep trying to stay positive.

I do have a question: is nutritional yeast gluten free? I had some "Tings" yesterday because dd seems to be okay with corn flakes. So these were a last resort at the HFS when we were in a rush and I hadn't eaten in 4 hours. So she was up all last night







Lots of gas that is continuing into today. Is the fact that she's probably reacting to the yeast signal a yeast issue, or just another typical new food reaction? Just wondering what I should be concerned with treating I guess...

That's all for now!


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Thanks greencat! Perhaps I will use the oven. Bummer...because I just bought the yogurt maker thinking that would be easier







Maybe I can still return it.

Annikate-Thanks for your success story! Your website is great. I know you don't want to be endorsing the brands of supplements you were using, but I'd love to know the enzymes/probiotics, etc. you were using.

I think being positive is key, but one of the hardest things to do when everything seems to be against you! Have you all watched "The Secret" or something?!







I try and try, but everything keeps snowballing and it's really hard on little to no sleep. But I'm trying and the fact that we make it through everyday is a good thing, right?







But I'm going to keep trying to stay positive.

I do have a question: is nutritional yeast gluten free? I had some "Tings" yesterday because dd seems to be okay with corn flakes. So these were a last resort at the HFS when we were in a rush and I hadn't eaten in 4 hours. So she was up all last night








Lots of gas that is continuing into today. Is the fact that she's probably reacting to the yeast signal a yeast issue, or just another typical new food reaction? Just wondering what I should be concerned with treating I guess...

That's all for now!









yikes... i JUST read a post on another mailing list that NY can cause some MSG-like effects. but THAT might be a clue in and of itself.


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

I kept my Euro Cuisine, since it came with the glass jars, and qt size glass bowl fits fine as well in there. I plan to use it when we find the raw cow's milk.


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## Cello (Feb 15, 2007)

So ladies, I have a question for you...

NAET has been going slowly, and without any progress 4 session into it., but we are willing to be patient. My question as I read up more and more about SCD is how can NAET work when every food in the list each weeks seems to be starch laden? How can we heal the gut with the NAET's stringent diet requirements for 3 days out of the week? I don't know what came first here, the chicken or the egg: do we heal the gut with diet, or do the NAET. I am probably missing something, but how are they compatible with e/o? Sorry if these are novice questions, but any input would be welcome


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## Cello (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
This is exactly what has kept me away from here. I don't mean to offend anyone but it was time for *me* to get away from what was wrong and focus on what was *right* yk?

It helps healing immensely to change your frame of mind and how you think about things.









This is very true: I tend to be realistic often bordering on pessimistic -- so I try to remind myself to be patient everytime something requires more time to work....I read a study once that individuals who donate their organs to another family member are overwhelmed by the symptoms of their surgery post organ removal b/c they are generally healthy people, and have little tolerance/experience with discomfort/pain. The recipient however(who by the way go through a much larger operation) usually say they come out feeling like they are on cloud 9 -- again b/c they are used to knowing what illness is. Attitude is a huge part of the battle. I can't agree with you move. I has changed my expectations from 'cure' to simple 'improvement.'


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

I think that for us, we should have tried SCD nut, egg, and dairy free, at least for awhile. It just seemed like it would be too expensive and difficult, especially with a picky ds. Now it's just that he's too willful to get him to stick to anything, LOL.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Don't Tings also have a bunch of other weird ingredients, many of them to give it texture? And aren't they deep fried?


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

My intention on MDC is to share my experience with SCD for people with bad gut and weak immune system. I believe SCD had made a significant difference for my children and me. I made many mistakes as a learning process, but I was desperately searching for an answer on web sites (including MDC) when my kids were suffering. Believe me; I'd been there. I don't read a lot research paper (like Jane







: ) but I'd like to contribute my opinion based on my experience with SCD for people who are still searching.

I can not claim my opinion with a study group of 50+ people to compare with, yet it is my belief that your success rate is higher if you do SCD before you include other treatment, like NAET, Reiki, Healing Touch, Chinese medicine, herbal medicine, or whatever. The picture here is like adding treatments after treatments of stuff like Draino into a sink that is full of clogs or a pipe that needs to be patched up. I think many of you would agree, if you read the book, Breaking the Viscous Cycle that if your gut is so badly damaged from foods that s/he can't digest, toxins (medical and environmental), yeast, bad bacteria, intestinal parasites, or what ever is not going to help much unless you ease the load on your GI and immune system. I am not saying those treatments will not work, but the progress is more visible if you are on SCD, perhaps.

I went to Karen DeFelice's conference with few moms of kids on Autism spectrum. We all tried the digestive enzymes (of same brands,) and the results were interesting. Moms who were on SCD (two of us/ four children total) did very well with the enzyme, where kids who were just on very strict GFCF, but full of SCD illegal food did not. May be this is just a fluke.... This is not to say the enzyme they chose was ill fit. My son did horrible on one kind, and we all did better with one brand vs. the other. I will never know, but to wonder.

I will keep writing more about SCD and including other ideas.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
Don't Tings also have a bunch of other weird ingredients, many of them to give it texture? And aren't they deep fried?


It said cornmeal, safflower oil, nutritional yeast and salt. I don't know if they're deep fried...perhaps.

If I remember correctly, don't lactobacillus species make up your small intestine, while bifidobacterium inhabit the larger one? I have plenty of bifido, but lacto. according to my lab tests. So I'm trying to pinpoint which intestine is "leaky." I wonder if it will make a difference if I do. Anyone know?


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

Cello: To respond to your post, I knew one mom who went to NAET. Her progress were so slow, she quit. I think NAET may be more money's worth, if you are on you know what. My approach to healing the gut was very holistic/wholistic. I not only followed the SCD, but added other ideas to better your health, like using sea salt, drinking Mountain Valley Spring water, using filtered water for cooking, etc, etc, etc. We also went completely organic, removed all chemical stuff, and build a house with VOC free material, etc to ease the load on our immune system. Yes, I can be a bit crazy..


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## Richie'sMama (Dec 4, 2001)

Can you give a brief overview of SCD and how could one get a very picky eater to do it? (presently we're gfcf mostly sf and corn free and chemical free, but a lot of sweets, rice and potatoes in those categories. It's all he'll eat.)

thanks.

- paula


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
It said cornmeal, safflower oil, nutritional yeast and salt. I don't know if they're deep fried...perhaps.


Nutritional yeast can contain free glutamates (think natural MSG), and I've heard of babies reacting to the nutritional or brewer's yeast added to the WAPF homemade baby formula. Corn is a really common allergen as well...you could try tortilla chips and if she doesn't react to those, then you could rule out the corn as a cause.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Richie'sMama* 
Can you give a brief overview of SCD and how could one get a very picky eater to do it? (presently we're gfcf mostly sf and corn free and chemical free, but a lot of sweets, rice and potatoes in those categories. It's all he'll eat.)

thanks.

- paula

www.pecanbread.com is a good website--most of the recipes come from moms of kids with ASD so I imagine they are good for picky eaters.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Nutritional yeast can contain free glutamates (think natural MSG), and I've heard of babies reacting to the nutritional or brewer's yeast added to the WAPF homemade baby formula. Corn is a really common allergen as well...you could try tortilla chips and if she doesn't react to those, then you could rule out the corn as a cause.

I don't know. She was fine with corn flakes that I have for breakfast, so I thought these would be okay. I think it's the yeast, but I don't think it has anything to do with MSG. Yeast came up positive on my IgG tests, i haven't had any until now.

It's all a big mystery







:


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 









PM it to Teresa!









you've got me visualizing a fed ex box...









i've been off line for a few days, and my name turns to... ?poopqueen?

my internet connection is out of whack, so i'm just checking in when i can.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...88#post7763988

psst... it's april now!


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