# In talking to intact/circ'd men about orgasm something I seem to notice...



## phatchristy (Jul 6, 2005)

I had a peculiar discussion with my DH about orgasms. I shared with him what mine are like, the fact that they are nearly always full body orgasms (to the extent that sometimes I swear I am floating above my body in ecstacy







). I feel it in my arms, back and incredibly in my face among other places. And, his response was "I feel it on the penis or it feels good on the penis." He didn't really have a concept exactly of what I meant by full body orgasms.

You know those fluttery/shivery sensations that you can have when you run your fingertips over someone lightly on the back/arm/thigh...well, he thinks those sensations are more "sensitive" than what he experiences during direct sexual stimulation. That really got me to thinking/worrying that sex for him sounds more like satisfying an urge and that it feels good, but isn't the "blissful dance of love" that it is for me.









In light of that conversation, I have opened up a bit of conversation IRL with some men who are intact and others who are circ'd. It seems that all the intact men KNOW what I am saying when I describe the sensations that I feel. They seem to have the "full body sensations" the way that I do. On the other hand, it seems like nearly every cut guy is saying that things are centered on the "penis" and they don't have a mental concept of a full body orgasm.

I don't have a big sample to go from, so I thought I might ask some opinions on this? Also, I know we have restored/restoring men here. Might they comment on the differences before/after with regards to this?


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## jee'smom (Mar 17, 2004)

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## DaddyJoe (Dec 30, 2005)

You are exactly, 100% and unequivocably correct. Circumcised men do NOT have anywhere close to the sensation that women and intact men do during orgasm. It IS just the satisfaction of sexual tension. The sensation of a backrub IS more intense than the sensation one feels on a circumcised penis. Cut sex _does_ feel good, and it is a relief of tension, for circed men... but it is not transcendental or overwhelming. You know that sense of relief you feel when you empty an overfull bladder? That's just a little shy of a circumcised orgasm. Feels just a tad better than that... sadly.

One thing that bothered me and got me on the road to restoring several years ago was the realization than I could feel more intensely with my fingertips and other parts of my body than I could with my penis. It didn't seem fair. Now, after restoring for over two years, the glans of my penis is so sensitive I cannot stand to have the shower spray hit it. Sex, after I achieved coverage, became something magical... romantic, intimate, transcendental, powerful, pleasurable... basically, every way that my wife had described our lovemaking all through our marriage (things I did not understand because I never felt them) became true for me to.

I came to love her in a very romantic, intimate and bonded manner... the two become one... the ways you read about in romance novels... those ways that do not exist for cut men because there is no physical way for them to feel it. Their capacity for it was snipped off along with a good portion of their penis skin.

Circumcision is not just a great loss for men... it is a loss for women too... because it partners you all with incomplete men who are not going to understand the finer points of sexuality and intimacy. Wouldn't it be nice to have a man you can drive over the edge of overwhelming pleasure and passion, make insane with lust and sexual stimulation, bond completely with you body and soul?

You can if you convince them to restore.

All that romance and sexual feeling... I thought it was all made-up crap until I restored and realized that it was all real... all true... it was like I hit puberty at the age of 34. I had my first real orgasm. I felt a true bond with my sexual partner and understood the things she said for the first time in my life. I know this all sounds rambling and broken, but there is just so much and it is so complex I can't describe it in a whole way.


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## minkajane (Jun 5, 2005)

Wow, DaddyJoe, that was beautiful. I wish people who claim there's no difference in sensation could read that.

I'm SO tired of reading articles that claim that there's absolutely no difference whatsoever because they did a survey of intact men and RIC'd men. If I had my clitoris removed in infancy, I would probably be perfectly happy with my sex life because I would have no idea what I was missing. I'd be thrilled that all that "redundant, dirty flesh" was gone before I could remember having it.


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## Belle (Feb 6, 2005)

hmmm. I'll have to ask my cut dh what his are like. I'm curious now.


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## MatrionsRevenge (Oct 3, 2005)

Wow the moment I started to read this I started to think. Hmm I have full body orgasms to and I am a guy and intact too! Then I got to the end of it surprised to find that most intact men feel this. This is very interesting.


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## phatchristy (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MatrionsRevenge*
Wow the moment I started to read this I started to think. Hmm I have full body orgasms to and I am a guy and intact too! Then I got to the end of it surprised to find that most intact men feel this. This is very interesting.

I have talked to several intact/cut men so far about this, including where and how they feel the sensation and so far it's only the intact men who appear to relate to what I describe as the feelings I have during orgasm. And, well if that is the generalization then that just sucks! I described my sensations to the cut men and they just couldn't understand the sensations/feelings I was describing







.

Now, if that isn't yet another thing that pisses me off about my inlaws having my DH cut







.


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## Nathan1097 (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phatchristy*
I have talked to several intact/cut men so far about this, including where and how they feel the sensation and so far it's only the intact men who appear to relate to what I describe as the feelings I have during orgasm. And, well if that is the generalization then that just sucks! I described my sensations to the cut men and they just couldn't understand the sensations/feelings I was describing







.

Yup. I remember one partner I had (circ'd) who could NOT for the life of him understand the meaning of "nuance"!


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## anony (Jun 19, 2005)

How very true this is. Being intact I can attest to it. Orgasms are experienced throughout the body. It seems muscles tighten, you get tingling sensations and you lose control of your breath, amongst other things. With the girlfriend I once had (the only one I had sexual relations with), it was even better having an orgasm as you share the experience. She did comment on how she thought I must be tremendously experienced or read books on love-making. Very flattering, but I thought there was more to this opinion of hers. I just laughed and suggesteed that maybe what the case was, was that she must not have had sex with someone who wasn't cut. And guess what, that's exactly what it was (her first boyfriend in fact).

It dawned on her and she said "oh no wonder it doesn't hurt at all with you. I don't feel like I'm being drilled to death." LOL, yeah it was funny. Didn't hurt that she thought her 1st BF was a total jerk anyway. We're just friends now (after a couple of years to get over breaking up but that's irrelevant stuff) but I hope going forward she knows intact is the way to go. I guess the pleasure enjoyed by the predominately intact number of men around the world gets taken for granted, but with my knowledge of the effects of circ I will always be grateful for being spared the cut. It's nature's way and yet if you only knew a circ'd penis throughout life (whether you are male or female) you'd think such details I read off (as well as Daddy Joe's, which sound very familar to me although I'm not a married man), could only be caused by a miracle drug or herbal remedy.

But it's simply just in the way the human body is constructed at birth. Knowing all this, I will never let any sons of mine face the ridiculously pointless threat of circ. Whomever my wife will be, she'll have to know it's not even an option (and shouldn't be for any parents) to do such a cruel and barbaric thing. I will always try to make sure no sons of any friends and relatives are deprived of a foreskin too. I feel a bit sorry for men and women who can never truly experience great sex, but what's done is done and it's no reason not to love someone. But it should serve as a reason to break the cycle of abuse so future generations will never have to deal with the grief. Then maybe finally Americans can be seen as great lovers like all those Europeans have the reputation of being.


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## PuppyFluffer (Mar 18, 2002)

This thread is discussing some very inportant aspects of the damage of circ. Posters, so far, have done a wonderful job of describign their feelings and conversations with others in a very tactful manner. It is important that discussions we host are of a graceful, not crass manner. Descriptions of a clinical manner or personal nature need to remain tactful and not contain gratuitous sexual content. So far, you're doing great. Just a reminder to keep this discussion on track and on the forum!


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## DaddyJoe (Dec 30, 2005)

I always thought it was funny how people would say someone was a "passionate Spanish lover" or "passionate French lover" or "Hot Italian lover". Yet, you never hear of a "passionate American lover" or "Hot Jewish lover". Somehow, people never make the connection to this disparity and the effects of circumcision on a culture's male population.

I know, after restoring, the sensations with orgasm became very overwhelming, and were no longer centered on the phallus. I would feel pleasure in my face, the back of my head if my wife touched my hair, my nipples and my entire pelvic region. There was a sensation of coming up out of my body, and my muscles constricted much harder and for a longer period of time-- not just in my genital area but throughout my entire body. There was a greater and longer lasting rush of sensual pleasure and emotional release, and afterwards a very great sense of relief and relaxation, almost like being high. The actual act is more intense as well... actually, since restoring, the sensation of simply entering my wife is better than my pre-restoring orgasms.

Intact men, if you want to know what a circumcised orgasm feels like, just imagine that nice sensation you feel during the initial penetration at the start of the act of lovemaking. That's it. That's the most a cut man feels. If that hurts anyone's feelings, I apologize. I've had it both ways. I have the right to give my opinion.


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## Heffernhyphen (May 3, 2005)

I can't even begin to imagine a conversation with my male friends about the intimate details of their orgasms. And that's even if I did have a clue as to which ones had which kind of penis.

If these guys you've questioned have wives/girlfriends/boyfriends, how do they feel about these conversations? I can just see my girlfriends' faces when I asked their husbands, "So, Jim, tell me about your orgasms. And could you please pass the rolls?"


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## Fi. (May 3, 2005)

He's right. You always hear the tales of the hot European lover, or the hot lover from South America.

I've said to people many'a'times, "Haven't you ever stopped to think about why women rave on and on about their European lovers and European women VERY RARELY go on and on the same way about American men?"


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## Mama Dragon (Dec 5, 2005)

I never pop into discussion here, but I felt the need to add (maybe in defence for some weird reason) that DH is cut and has those "full body orgasms" that the OP describes. It's obvious his whole body is "into" it. They last forever and he's wiped out afterwards. Well for a few minutes. Then he's ready to go again









NOT defending circ'ing FYI. Just wanted to post my (DH's) side of things.


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## Minky (Jun 28, 2005)

When we lived abroad yes my female friends would tell stories about affairs w/ American soldiers. Maybe we just don't hear about it because we live in America. No need to say American when everyone's American.

My point is, this discusson is not saving penis's.
This discussion is putting circed men who had no choice in the matter down and it offends me. It is also a good way to put circed men on the deffensive side of things.

and with the Jewish thing I'm sorry but it just comes out as rascist to me. You are for one assuming that all American's and all Jewish are circumcised which we know from here not to be true. And also saying "hahaha people of your race make lousy lovers" is going to send any prospective circ'ers off this forum more convinced than ever that they're right.

Edit my post again if you need to Puppyfluffer but if your going to edit out references to Jewish people again please do so in DaddyJoes post as well. Thanks.


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## Minky (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Synthea™*
I never pop into discussion here, but I felt the need to add (maybe in defence for some weird reason) that DH is cut and has those "full body orgasms" that the OP describes. It's obvious his whole body is "into" it. They last forever and he's wiped out afterwards. Well for a few minutes. Then he's ready to go again









NOT defending circ'ing FYI. Just wanted to post my (DH's) side of things.

See this is what I mean. How many parents considering circ are going to read this thread and say "But my DHs orgasms are just fine, these people are wrong, about everything." And go and cut their kids.


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## DaddyJoe (Dec 30, 2005)

My comment was not an insult. It was an observation. I think arguing about what is and is not politically correct is pretty stupid. Since culture and religion are two reasons people give to PROMOTE circumcision, why should we shy away from the subjects? That's just my opinion, and you are free to agree or disagree. I really don't care. My observation is that I have never heard the phrase "my passionate Jewish lover" or "my hot American lover" either in real life or in any form of media. If you have, please share the reference. I do recall hearing, in one movie, a woman raving about her Jewish lover's beautiful penis, if that makes you feel better. The point is, why censor ourselves in honest and thoughtful debate when we are contending with a culture that is soooooo heavily biased toward the natural way of living? In a society where the popular media constantly makes jokes about severed foreskins falling into soup (Meet the Fockers) men being accidentally circumcised (Married with Children), it seems self-defeating to bicker about what is PC and what is not. They are not playing by our rules.

That being said, I apologize for hurting anyone's feelings, and I don't mind one bit if someone can present any evidence to the contrary. And Synthea, I would venture to say that you seem a little overly defensive. I'm glad YOUR husband is fine... not like all us other poor, cut guys who have sexual issues. Then again, maybe he just got lucky. I don't know.


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## phatchristy (Jul 6, 2005)

Minky said:


> My point is, this discusson is not saving penis's.
> This discussion is putting circed men who had no choice in the matter down and it offends me. It is also a good way to put circed men on the deffensive side of things.
> 
> QUOTE]
> ...


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## Silvercrest79 (Jan 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Synthea™*
I never pop into discussion here, but I felt the need to add (maybe in defence for some weird reason) that DH is cut and has those "full body orgasms" that the OP describes. It's obvious his whole body is "into" it. They last forever and he's wiped out afterwards. Well for a few minutes. Then he's ready to go again









NOT defending circ'ing FYI. Just wanted to post my (DH's) side of things.

My cut DH is the same as yours.


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## DaddyJoe (Dec 30, 2005)

For silvercrest and sythea: Do your husbands have loose circumcisions? A loose circumcision is the least damaging. If you can pull the skin at least partially over the glans when they are erect, it is a loose cut. There IS variation between circumcisions-- tight is the most damaging, loose is the least damaging-- just like there are variations in female forms of circumcision, with some being very mild and some horrific. There is a difference between contributing to a debate and just bickering. Give us more info so that we can understand WHY you DHs seem to be in better working condition than others, okay?


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## moonmama7 (Jan 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heffernhyphen*
I can't even begin to imagine a conversation with my male friends about the intimate details of their orgasms. And that's even if I did have a clue as to which ones had which kind of penis.

If these guys you've questioned have wives/girlfriends/boyfriends, how do they feel about these conversations? I can just see my girlfriends' faces when I asked their husbands, "So, Jim, tell me about your orgasms. And could you please pass the rolls?"

I don't have anything to add but this post just made me







I couldn't imagine having these conversations either but if people can, more power to them!

Also, American men seemed pretty popular with European women when I lived there so maybe novelty is an issue?


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## Silvercrest79 (Jan 20, 2004)

My Dh's is loose, he has plenty of skin to pull way over the end when erect. When flacid you'd never know he was cut.

Maybe that is the key. *waiting on sythea's response*


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## DaddyJoe (Dec 30, 2005)

That is exactly the key.

Before I restored, I didn't even know the skin was supposed to move. I thought it was just supposed to be stuck there, like the skin of the fingers or toes. When I restored to the point that the skin was loose and stretchy, I thought I had damaged myself.

Aren't you and your husband lucky he didn't get skinned alive, like some of us did. It's not something to brag about... because we're not all that lucky... it something about which to say, "Whew! Guess we dodged a bullet!"


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## bravofrenchie (Oct 15, 2004)

This hits close to home for me. DH & I don't make love very often, and he has admitted to me that he does it more for my pleasure than his. Half the time he doesn't reach orgasm, either he tires out or it becomes too painful for me. He has said that it seems like alot of work for just "two seconds of pleasure." (His words.)








He is tightly circed, with little skin movement when erect. I've wanted to bring up restoration for a while now, but for the life of me, I can't think of how to talk to him about it without making it sound like I'm not satisfied with him. Or sounding like I'm nagging him into it.


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## Mama Dragon (Dec 5, 2005)

Sorry, there are so many forums here at mdc it takes me a while to check back on all the ones I've posted to.

I think DH's is "looser" then most...he can pull enough of the shaft skin over the head to cover it. But normally, he looks completely cut. Completely hard, he can barely move the skin.

I didn't make my post to cause a debate. I highly doubt anyone is going to see my post and decide that it, instead of all the other posts here, will sway them one way or the other in reguards to circumcising their boy. I'm not propagating circ'ing, merely pointing out that there are many reasons a man might not being reaching the orgasm he thinks he should be having (or actually should be having). And I wholeheartedly agree that being cut can definitely cause problems. Hard to convey what I mean in typed words, sorry.


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## kxsiven (Nov 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonmama7*
Also, American men seemed pretty popular with European women when I lived there so maybe novelty is an issue?

Just curious - what part of Europe you where and when? I know here in Scandinavia we get lot of exchange students from USA and since our naughty sauna culture Americans quickly learn that they are different on penis department - this is comes often as a shock to them(obviously lot of young Americans still think that circ is done everywhere). Scandinavians mostly feel pity - just like they would feel pity to circumcised woman.

I also do know a finnish woman who is married to circ American guy and she told me she is absolutely devistated and don't kno what to do. I talked about foreskin restoration but she is afraid to bring it up.


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## Fi. (May 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bravofrenchie*
but for the life of me, I can't think of how to talk to him about it without making it sound like I'm not satisfied with him

Tell him you're sick of the fact that he doesn't/can't enjoy sex. Tell him you WANT him to enjoy sex with you and that you want to share that with him. Make it about him, because really it is - the benefits to you are only secondary.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonmama7*
Also, American men seemed pretty popular with European women when I lived there so maybe novelty is an issue?

Dunno, but my friends in the UK seemed to have the same attitude that kxsiven's friends have. They wouldn't necessarily turn down a cut guy over being cut but it'd probably be a bit of a dissapointment. The way guys are cut over there (for medical reasons) is a lot looser and saves as much of the skin as possible, as opposed to the stripped barren way here so encountering a cut British bloke isn't as bad to them as say, an American.


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## Minky (Jun 28, 2005)

Ok now what happens' when someone comes on like alot of my DH's friends and was stationed in Germany or where ever before Desert Storm or went to a foreign hospital after being injured in this war, and they were popular with the girls there?

They read these posts, say "Well thats not true, nobody said anything bad about me being cut" and go on and cut their kids, that's why I think this sortof disucssion isn't productive.


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## phatchristy (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Minky*
Ok now what happens' when someone comes on like alot of my DH's friends and was stationed in Germany or where ever before Desert Storm or went to a foreign hospital after being injured in this war, and they were popular with the girls there?

They read these posts, say "Well thats not true, nobody said anything bad about me being cut" and go on and cut their kids, that's why I think this sortof disucssion isn't productive.

This whole post has to do with is the general trend I have been noticing in questioning men that typically circumcised men appear to have orgasms which are penis centered. And, men who are intact have orgasms which are experienced as more full bodied. That was the whole point of this. And, I WILL point out, that a couple of the men I talked to who were cut were absolutely intrigued with the concept that there are men who experience orgasms with their full bodies...not only on their penis. Seriously, they thought that their experience of the penis centered orgasm was normal and that women were just built "completely different."

I would have to say, that I think it is VERY possible for a woman to have good sex with any man...hey, if a woman has all her genitals I think she is able to get a lot of pleasure out of a cut man, intact man or sex toy for that matter. But, that is not the point of this post. It is focusing on the man and what they were robbed of, and what they DON'T even know they should be able to experience.

Plus, as several people I know have eluded to this idea...."sex is like pizza... even bad sex, is ....errr....still sex." And, I think a lot of this will hold true for women, at least while we have higher levels of lubrication and are young (but that is a whole other matter). Enough women who have been with cut men long term have told me that often they don't notice the issues in the relationship until deep in the relationship when the mental "newness" and excitement of a new partner wears off. But that is a whole other concept...


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## gabysmom617 (Nov 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Minky*
Ok now what happens' when someone comes on like alot of my DH's friends and was stationed in Germany or where ever before Desert Storm or went to a foreign hospital after being injured in this war, and they were popular with the girls there?

They read these posts, say "Well thats not true, nobody said anything bad about me being cut" and go on and cut their kids, that's why I think this sortof disucssion isn't productive.

Personally, I feel that argument is pretty pointless. I mean if you have an individual who is so open minded enough to be here, hopefully they will not take this argument as the only reason for not circumcising their son. I would hope that they look at this whole reasoning, as a POSSIBILITY, a very likely possibility that perhaps their son's sex life will not be all that it could be.

I mean if you have somebody as close minded enough to do what you say, "Oh, that's not true, because overseas I was popular with the ladies and I'm cut" and goes on to cut their son anyway, they will probably not be open to any of the other reasons not to cut their son anyway.


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## Islay (Apr 29, 2006)

I must chip in here. There does seem to be a sudden change of mood (shall we say?) in this thread, but that is the stuff of debate and acceptable. However, as I understand it, this is supposed to be a _discussion_ board, not a debate board - more's the pity.

To briefly answer the two posters who have offered a different and refreshing aspect to this thread, I'd like to respectfully ask if you have experienced penetrative sex with an uncircumcised penis. My point is, just as a male who underwent RIC as an infant can never understand what he has not known, nor can a female. He may well find sexual intercourse to be as rewarding and wonderful as his imagination can muster, with a whole-body experience that leaves him - and his partner - totally fulfilled... to the best of his knowledge.

Nature provides us with the perfect design for procreation. Each sex is given the ultimate tools to accomplish this. The foreskin is the equivalent of the clitoral hood; each were created to protect and enhance the act of copulation - and thereby encourage us to perpetuate the species. The foreskin is not a freak of nature, it is part of a faultless whole. It is there to offer _both_ partners the definitive sexual experience.

Christopher, England

(I added my location because for some reason it doesn't appear under my username. I included it when I registered. Can anyone explain its absence? Please?)


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## moonmama7 (Jan 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kxsiven*
Just curious - what part of Europe you where and when? I know here in Scandinavia we get lot of exchange students from USA and since our naughty sauna culture Americans quickly learn that they are different on penis department - this is comes often as a shock to them(obviously lot of young Americans still think that circ is done everywhere). Scandinavians mostly feel pity - just like they would feel pity to circumcised woman.

I also do know a finnish woman who is married to circ American guy and she told me she is absolutely devistated and don't kno what to do. I talked about foreskin restoration but she is afraid to bring it up.

Hmm. I lived in England but I must admit, when I lived there I really wasn't that "conscious" of the whole issue so probably wasn't paying attention to that aspect, IYKWIM? And no one really said anything to me, but maybe because I am American?

In terms of American male popularity, what can I say -- they were popular in the dating pool that I knew! but as I said above, maybe my English friends had other thoughts about their equipment -- we never overtly discussed it.

I'm also thinking of your friend -- didn't she know before they got married? Would most Finnish women turn down American men because they're cut? I've never really thought about this international dating angle before!


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Well, orgasms are different for different people. Not all women describe orgasm in the same way, or feel it the same way. And orgasm is not exactly the same every time it happens for me. I have had long term relationships with intact men and circed men. I can say without a doubt that the circed men I've been with have had what would be described as full body orgasms.


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## Nathan1097 (Nov 20, 2001)

Gotta run out the door to church but thought I'd quickly add that my intact boyfriend's responses are WAY different than any circ'd partners I've had. Longer, louder, more intense.... I'd say he's both more sensitive and more reactive but at the same time! I don't think circ'd men could comprehend this idea.


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## gabysmom617 (Nov 26, 2005)

Sure, it "seems" that some of these circed men are having "full body orgasms". It seems that my husband's (who is tightly circed) whole body is involved with the orgasm, his breath quickens and deepens, and his muscles tense up.

So, it would SEEM that he is having a full body orgasm.

But, when you ASK him what his orgasm feels like, he will tell you that he feels it in his penis. It's like, he still can't relate to the entire spectrum of sensations that sweep over my body. He just looks at me and raises an eyebrow, and think that it's because I am a woman.

So even though it may seem like a circed man is having a full body orgasm, he still may not be feeling as much as he seems to be. The key is to ASK HIM and see what he says.


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## mamabeca (Oct 3, 2004)

To _discuss_ that point just a moment - Gaby'smom, my dh couldn't describe his orgasm if you paid him. He doesn't know how to use words to describe himself hardly at all, and describing orgasm is hard enough for the verbalizers! His whole body is definitely involved - respiration, shoulders, toes, the whole shebang. However, he was circed at birth, and so doesn't know how different it would be. Doesn't matter to him at this point, because he is who he is. He doesn't have much hair on his head anymore, either, and that is who he is. It would be great if he could verbally communicate with me about whether this is what he wants for himself, whether he feels it's a whole body experience, but I don't think he COULD, circed or not.

I think that finding a partner who responds in ways that are thrilling and moving to you is really important, not whether there is anything in particular about his orgasm that makes you think that his intact or c'd penis is what you were always looking for...That's for Nathan - whom I'm thrilled to hear has a wonderful partner who sends him to other universes.









As for the OP I think that DaddJoe covered the bases there - we're all just fluff.


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## phatchristy (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gabysmom617*
Sure, it "seems" that some of these circed men are having "full body orgasms". It seems that my husband's (who is tightly circed) whole body is involved with the orgasm, his breath quickens and deepens, and his muscles tense up.

So, it would SEEM that he is having a full body orgasm.

But, when you ASK him what his orgasm feels like, he will tell you that he feels it in his penis. It's like, he still can't relate to the entire spectrum of sensations that sweep over my body. He just looks at me and raises an eyebrow, and think that it's because I am a woman.

So even though it may seem like a circed man is having a full body orgasm, he still may not be feeling as much as he seems to be. The key is to ASK HIM and see what he says.









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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gabysmom617*
So even though it may seem like a circed man is having a full body orgasm, he still may not be feeling as much as he seems to be. The key is to ASK HIM and see what he says.

I've had very open relationships with my partners that involved detailed communication regarding sexual feelings. Probably because I'm really interested in what my partners feel. All I can say is that IME you can't make a blanket statement regarding how ALL circed men experience orgasm. I haven't found the conclusions being made in this thread to be an accurate assesment of the men I've had sex with.

To answer the question fully would no doubt put this thread in lockdown as the details involved in why orgasm can be better for some men and not others involve talking about sex in more detail than is allowed on MDC.

BTW, nowhere in my post did I use the term seem, which you seem to be so forcused on. I went by my own personal experiences of having sex with these men and on discussions with them about how they experience orgasm.

I still think circ should be illegal, but I do agree with PPs that trying to pin intactness on this issue is not the best way to further the cause. Especially I have seen this discussion on mainstream forums and it always results in people saying that well I/my partner doesn't have any problems you all are nuts and I'm not listening to anything else you say. Plus there are the people that think less feeling is good and reduces the incidence of masturbation so you are giving them one more sellng point for circ. Sadly I've even seen such sentiments posted at MDC that someone doesn't want to "promote" masturbation.







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## phatchristy (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna*
I still think circ should be illegal, but I do agree with PPs that trying to pin intactness on this issue is not the best way to further the cause. Especially I have seen this discussion on mainstream forums and it always results in people saying that well I/my partner doesn't have any problems you all are nuts and I'm not listening to anything else you say. Plus there are the people that think less feeling is good and reduces the incidence of masturbation so you are giving them one more sellng point for circ. Sadly I've even seen such sentiments posted at MDC that someone doesn't want to "promote" masturbation.







:

I have to say, there are people out there who NO MATTER what evidence, logical thought and documented facts you present to them will still go on to circumcize their sons. Just because those people are out there, it doesn't mean that we have to stop discussing what we know. Is EVERYTHING on this board about trying to convince people not to circumcise? I mean, a lot of this is sharing experiences and ideas with eachother who are likeminded.

I have heard some of the same sentiments as you....a woman on a mainstream breastfeeding board I am on researched all of the information I showed her, then went on to write to me and everyone in the group "I don't care if he feels more or enjoys sex more...frankly I think men enjoy sex enough." According to her, as long as he is able to have any orgasm then circumcision is OK. What a load of crap.







: These women on the whole don't seem to enjoy sex and mainly just tolerate it with their husbands. They don't know what sex might be like with a partner with intact genitals. And, since they have discomfort/weird sensations which take away from sex they just mentally assume that women just aren't designed to have sexual pleasure or orgasm. It takes a whole lot of female stimulation in the right way to overcome the negative/irritating sensations that you receive at times. Irony being I am one of those women who is very responsive AND have not had difficulty climaxing...BUT...they were often a mixture of pain/pleasure when it happened.

Before I knew what role circumcision played in my sex life I assumed that something was wrong with me because I got chafed (as did DH) and I had to use artificial lube. DH had to be so rough to get pleasure, and that made things uncomfrotable/painful at times. I had thought that was normal and that there "must have been something wrong with me" for not liking it when he did that.

THEN...when I discovered what circumcision had done, how it made sex less comfortable, dryer and made me more likely to chafe...well, then something just clicked in my head. Well, DUH, if you took away the negative sensations circumcision gives you well then sex would be all around comfortable, no pain at all...just pleasure (it was sort of a mix of it before...the sensations being at best subconsciously annoying to at worst painful). Now that I understood how a penis was meant to work (a whole penis that is) I never felt bad about using lube....I insisted that I start on top to take things at my own "gentler" pace...I take my time and do my thing....then I give him his turn to do the rough stuff he needs.









DH knows most of this stuff too....I talk to him/share things (which may be why he is now on the road to restoration). He is open minded about things, and to a certain extent that is what you need to be in order to be receptive to the idea that what your circumcised normal is wouldn't be as good as what an intact normal would have been.

I mean, if you think about it in simple language...who do you think would have more sexual sensation...the person who had all of the genitals they were born with, or the person who had some of their genitals removed? That makes it a no brainer.

Like you said, there is going to be people out there who will think "oh, well, if he can still orgasm then it's still OK." What stupid logic though. I mean, I have read stories of circumcised women who still orgasm. So, does that mean that it was still right what was done to them? I think not.

Everyone has the right to the fully functioning genitals they were born with.


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## Bm31 (Jun 5, 2005)

It's a no-brainer to me that an intact man is going to have the _potential_ to have a better, fuller sexual experience. Whether he does or not will depend on a lot of other factors, just like it would for a circ'd man.

My circ's were botched, so I know I can orgasm despite the fact that my penile sensation and direct pleasure from it are practically non-existent. Like others have said, it's a lot of work for a few seconds of enjoyment. I DO think I've had the rare full-body orgasm, maybe because it's such a mental exercise for me that I've had to develop other qualities of my sexuality rather than rely on enjoyment from my penis. But I'd still rather have been left intact and had the opportunity to develop my full capability.

I think this is a valid discussion for this board. The bottom line for me is still that any parent who would circ for a sexual-related reason is just cracked in the head; there's no way it can improve on nature's design.

Interesting discussion!


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## Fi. (May 3, 2005)

I know a circumcised woman who would argue that her orgasms are just as good as mine. Does that mean it's okay she's circumcised even though she feels orgasms "just as good"? I mean, we know they aren't really just as good - but since she feels she's 100% does that mean it's okay? No. Same applies to the male side of this argument.


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## gabysmom617 (Nov 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna*
BTW, nowhere in my post did I use the term seem, which you seem to be so forcused on.


For the record, I was not focused on your post AT ALL. It was somebody else's post that I was specifically responding to.

You are so defensive, that you jump all over me as if I was speaking directly to you. In reality, I was speaking in general terms.

My simple point was, some women said that their partner's "seemed" to have full body orgasms, even though they were tightly (or loosely) circed, but they did not indicate that they had really ever had a discussion with him about it, but just went by their observations in bed.

My point was, even though it may "seem" or "look" like the guy is having a "full body orgasm" because his muscles tighten and his breath quickens, he may not be having the full experience that you would think he is having. I know this from experience.

Quote:

Sadly I've even seen such sentiments posted at MDC that someone doesn't want to "promote" masturbation.
I am not sure what exactly that sentence meant, or if it was meant at me because in another thread I mentioned that my religion doesn't particularly promote masturbation.

But personally, I don't see how discussing this topic would give points to some one who is wishing to circumcise their child. As I mentioned before, if some one is even in this room (the case against circumcision), they are at least exploring the possibility of leaving their child(ren) intact.

By discussing this topic, we are looking at the POSSIBLE CONSEQUENCES of circumcising your child. Key word="possible"

It is possible that you are limiting his ability to enjoy his sex life to the fullest extent by circumcising him. He may still enjoy a very productive enjoyable sex life. But there is a possiblity that he may not.

Just like it's a possibility that he could get an infection from a circumcision. There is the possibility that there will be complications that need to be corrected later. There is a possibility that he may go into shock from blood loss and pain, and die.

Many pro circ doctors will tell you that that never happens, and that they have never lost a child to a circumcision, blah blah blah. But that does not erase the risk. Just like many circed men will tell you, "Oh, i have no problems having sex. Sex is wonderful and my orgasms full bodied." Just because some circ'ed men have no problem in this department does not mean that RISK of your child developing sexual problems later in life due to his circumcision is not there.

We are looking at RISKS of circumcision. This thread is exploring one of those RISKS: decreased feelings during sex and orgasm.

I think it is a great topic and should continue to be discussed.


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## sophiesue2 (Jan 15, 2005)

I realize that the topic of this thread is disapproved of by some posters, but I'd like to say THANKS!!!! I read some of DaddyJoe's post to my husband just as a "isn't this interesting" sort of thing. His response? HOLY CRAP! you can RESTORE?! what is involved? how do you do it? and then a "we'll have to look into that."


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## phatchristy (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gabysmom617*

It is possible that you are limiting his ability to enjoy his sex life to the fullest extent by circumcising him. He may still enjoy a very productive enjoyable sex life. But there is a possiblity that he may not.

Just like it's a possibility that he could get an infection from a circumcision. There is the possibility that there will be complications that need to be corrected later. There is a possibility that he may go into shock from blood loss and pain, and die.
..

I think there should be a differentiaion between these two scenarios though.

If a child is circumcised it an *absolute* that they will not feel the maximum sensations that he would have had the ability to feel if his genitals has been kept whole and intact. He could still have a productive sex life (orgasm and children being that definition), and the range of sensation he would have would depend on the level of inner mucosal skin left, the frenulum left, the tightness of the circ, etc. The amount of sensation lost would vary based on how it was done. However, it is pretty much a given that some sensation is going to be lost as nerve endings are amputated, no matter how little skin is removed. That is a definite thing.

As far as possible complications of circumcision...well those are possibilities. There is always a risk of death, losing all or part of the penis, meatal stenosis, infection, inability to have sex...among other things. But, those aren't definite.


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## gabysmom617 (Nov 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phatchristy*
I think there should be a differentiaion between these two scenarios though.

If a child is circumcised it an *absolute* that they will not feel the maximum sensations that he would have had the ability to feel if his genitals has been kept whole and intact. He could still have a productive sex life (orgasm and children being that definition), and the range of sensation he would have would depend on the level of inner mucosal skin left, the frenulum left, the tightness of the circ, etc. The amount of sensation lost would vary based on how it was done. However, it is pretty much a given that some sensation is going to be lost as nerve endings are amputated, no matter how little skin is removed. That is a definite thing.

As far as possible complications of circumcision...well those are possibilities. There is always a risk of death, losing all or part of the penis, meatal stenosis, infection, inability to have sex...among other things. But, those aren't definite.

Oh, absolutely!







If we can discuss the possibilities and risks that circumcision will have on a child, including all the ones you mention such as infection, stenosis, losing all or part of the penis, I think that we most certainly can discuss the certainty that losing those sensitive nerves in the foreskin will have an effect on a child's future sex life.

If we use the argument that some one will come in and say, "Oh, my sex life is fine, circumcision did not have an effect on it, so therefore I will go and circumcise my son", then it would also make sense to say, "Oh, well my husband was circumcised, and he did not lose his penis. He did not have any infections. He did not die. All of you people are full of balogna because those things did not happen to my husband and he is circumcised. Therefore since he is fine, then I will go and circumcise my son." And then we would not be able to discuss any of the other risks.

I think that we should discuss ALL the risks and side effects of circumcision, regardless of if some people actually had these problems due to their circumcisions or not.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Fi.*
I know a circumcised woman who would argue that her orgasms are just as good as mine. Does that mean it's okay she's circumcised even though she feels orgasms "just as good"? I mean, we know they aren't really just as good - but since she feels she's 100% does that mean it's okay? No. Same applies to the male side of this argument.

Of course not, nor have I seen anyone here make that argument. The discussion in this thread hasn't been who has better orgasms. The focus from what I can tell is the assumption that circed men are not capable of "full body orgasms".


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gabysmom617*
You are so defensive, that you jump all over me as if I was speaking directly to you. In reality, I was speaking in general terms.

I didn't jump all over you, I addressed the issues you mentioned in your post.

Quote:

My simple point was, some women said that their partner's "seemed" to have full body orgasms, even though they were tightly (or loosely) circed, but they did not indicate that they had really ever had a discussion with him about it, but just went by their observations in bed.

My point was, even though it may "seem" or "look" like the guy is having a "full body orgasm" because his muscles tighten and his breath quickens, he may not be having the full experience that you would think he is having. I know this from experience.

Not one of the other posters that described their husbands orgasms used the word seems.

In fact synthia said this : I never pop into discussion here, but I felt the need to add (maybe in defence for some weird reason) that DH is cut and has those "full body orgasms" that the OP describes.

And the other poster posted a thumbs up in agreement.

[/QUOTE]

As for your comment about religion and your assumptions that my post was referring to you. I have no idea what religion you are, and I do not remember having any conversations with you at MDC before. Doesn't me we haven't, but I don't remember it. Maybe one of the posts I've seen made here at MDC regarding masturbation and not wanting to promote was made by you, but since you are clearly an intactivist I doubt it. Since I thought my reference was clear that it was made by someone that doesn't want to encourage masterbation and that their beliefs regarding it could influence their choice to circ. Which as an intactivst that wouldn't be a viable argument for you.


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## phatchristy (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna*
Of course not, nor have I seen anyone here make that argument. The discussion in this thread hasn't been who has better orgasms. The focus from what I can tell is the assumption that circed men are not capable of "full body orgasms".

Aha...well just to add fuel to the fire...that is another thing we could talk about.







Here's my experience: I am assuming that the full body orgasms are the better ones because for myself and others I have talked to that is the case. I have had more localized ones at times...but they are the "small, slightly wimpy ones", and the intense--"mind blowing--swear you're leaving your body and visiting the 10th dimension" ones, well...those involve the entire body.

Though, when the actual act is happening, I still feel it in other areas of my body...even before the orgasm. You intact men out there are going to have to set me straight if this isn't the same for you, but for me the actual act of sex isn't as good as an orgasm but it isn't dramatically different on the pleasure scale either. Hope that makes sense the way I wrote it? For the cut men I have talked to, as well as my DH it seems like orgasm is the big BOOM, and the actual sex act is much less pleasurable. For me the orgasm is like the icing on the proverbial cake, the dessert for the five course gourmet meal....well...err..you probably get it







. I wonder if it is the same for intact men too. My circ'd hubby seems so goal oriented, while I seem to enjoy the journey...sound familiar?

I guess, then I made the assumption that full body orgasms are better because that is what I find to be better and that is what the men I have talked to who have them tell me as well.

Input/opinion on that?

Oh, and yep, I know there are going to be people saying...oh, well you're just generalizing. Well, hey, I'll admit to that. Just like we've discussed, all circ'd men have reduced range of sensation but how much is for a circ'd men is dependant on how the circ was done.


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## Nathan1097 (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phatchristy*
For me the orgasm is like the icing on the proverbial cake, the dessert for the five course gourmet meal....well...err..you probably get it







. I wonder if it is the same for intact men too. My circ'd hubby seems so goal oriented, while I seem to enjoy the journey...sound familiar?

Yup! I was JUST relating this to my intact boyfriend recently. He gets concerned if I don't "get there", but I tell him that the during is SOOO wonderful and mind-blowing, that having an orgasm would just be icing on the cake. (Of course, I still can't put my mind around what it must feel like for him when he "gets there".







Let's leave it at that.)


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## Islay (Apr 29, 2006)

I think I covered virtually everything we're discussing here (at least I tried hard to!) in my post:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...0&postcount=31

However, I would add it has always been my understanding that a full female orgasm _is_ different from the male. The term 'whole-body' orgasm is decidedly female - lucky girls! Perhaps this ties in with the needs we have once the male has withdrawn? Men are usually exhausted to the point where they could happily turn over and go to sleep. I've even heard that a male's point of climax is equivalent to running a sub four minute mile, in terms of energy spent!







Women, on the other hand, want to cuddle; lie together and enjoy the closeness and warmth of their partner. All this is a generalisation, of course.

From a male perspective only, what I _can_ say with assurance is that sex with a foreskin is wonderfully sensuous and smooth. Without being too explicit, think of what happens to the foreskin and glans as the penis moves in and out.

Finally at the moment of climax, the mind and body go into a world unlike anything experienced at any other time. Sight and mind float in a swirling lake of ecstasy. Thinking becomes impossible. Arms, legs and body cling and melt...

I can never experience this again but the memory will abide with me.

I speak only as one man among millions who may or may not be able to empathise; circumcised or intact.

Christopher, England
(Please, how _do_ I get my location listed automatically under my username?)


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## alsoSarah (Apr 29, 2002)

OT post, here....

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Islay*
(Please, how _do_ I get my location listed automatically under my username?)


Click "User CP", on the left, near the top of this screen.

Click "Edit Profile."

Scroll down to very near the bottom of the page, where there's a space to enter "Where You Live."

That should work. I hope.

alsoSarah


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## DaddyJoe (Dec 30, 2005)

I think we've hit a nerve with a few members here. I just want to clarify that circumcised sex and circumcised orgasms are good. But I would be lying if I said it was just as good before restoring as it is now that I am pretty much intact.

I went through three stages with restoring: very tight cut, loose cut, intact.

Tight cut was exactly as some ladies have described it with their men. "A whole lot of work for a couple seconds of pleasure." Sex is goal oriented, with orgasm being the finish line that one is sprinting for. Orgasms are satisfying but not mind-blowing. Intercourse is a relief of sexual tension. There does not seem to be a deep bond with a mate. Not that physical craving you feel for the other that transcends the physical. That feeling that you are connected. One might have difficulties getting and maintaining an erection. One might have problems with control, finishing either too fast or too slow. Sex is a job... a pleasant one, granted... but nevertheless, it is a lot of fuss for a bit of fun. It's good, but something seemed lacking.

Loose cut was a good stage. That's when I noted a leap in sensation. I began to have better orgasms. Sex became alot less work and alot more fun. My added skin made intercourse more pleasurable and less uncomfortable for my mate. As I neared the end of loose cut and transitioned into coverage, I noted that I was having full-body orgasms, that I was able to get back in the saddle twice and even three times in a night, and that I was feeling more intimate and bonded with my wife. I was less intent on orgasm because the actual act was sensual and pleasing. To be honest, I could have stopped at loose cut and been COMPLETELY SATISFIED with sex and intimacy. It's not as FULL but it is very good.

Intact is the best of all three. The actual physical pleasure does not seem extremely increased over very loose cut, but there are now NUANCES of sensation. The sensation is not so much stronger as BROADER. I am feeling things that I never felt before, that add to the overall act and make it seem fuller. The gliding sensation is nice during intercourse. I feel softer touches and strokes more strongly. The emotional side is so much stronger, as the very soft and silky joining of our bodies seems more intimate and mingled, not friction but a fluid joining. I crave her presence because she makes me feel so wonderful and I care more about her feelings, because I feel more bonded to her. I also feel sexier because all that extra surface area makes my phallus feel HUGE to me. No more insecurity about that silly thing.

But in the end, its kind of like comparing good, better and best--- not bad, so-so and good.

I also think that some of the ladies turning this thread into an argument are in severe denial. How can they even KNOW what their men are experiencing? They don't have penises, cut or intact.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote:

I also think that some of the ladies turning this thread into an argument are in severe denial. How can they even KNOW what their men are experiencing? They don't have penises, cut or intact.
Wouldn't that statement apply to all female partners, regardless of the status of their partners penis?


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phatchristy*
Aha...well just to add fuel to the fire...that is another thing we could talk about.







Here's my experience: I am assuming that the full body orgasms are the better ones because for myself and others I have talked to that is the case. I have had more localized ones at times...but they are the "small, slightly wimpy ones", and the intense--"mind blowing--swear you're leaving your body and visiting the 10th dimension" ones, well...those involve the entire body.

My circ'd hubby seems so goal oriented, while I seem to enjoy the journey...sound familiar?

I guess, then I made the assumption that full body orgasms are better because that is what I find to be better and that is what the men I have talked to who have them tell me as well.

Input/opinion on that?


Regarding different kinds of orgasm, I've had that conversation with female friends too and some describe being multi-orgasmic with many smaller orgasms and some describe one huge one and feeling spent. And my experiences and discussions with intact and circed male partners is that they also have varieties in intensity and number. In fact one circed male partner I have been with is multi-orgasmic w/o loss of erection between orgasms.

About which is better? I think it's personal preference, I know some of my friends would prefer to be multi-orgasmic and others would prefer the one huge one. I wish I could go into more detail, but MDC won't allow it and we are already probably close to the line here.


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## Pandora114 (Apr 21, 2005)

Quote:

All this is a generalisation, of course.








Yup! All I ever wanna do after is roll over and go to sleep! hehe I'm just so "spent" from O after O after O.....

Oh yeah, my DH is intact...and I've had both intact and cut partners, and I have noticed a difference in thier whole "O" Face.

It's hard to put my thumb on it, especially since I only got about oohh 3hrs total sleep last night due to my allergies going crazy...but I'll leave it at that....


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## DaryLLL (Aug 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Islay*
However, I would add it has always been my understanding that a full female orgasm _is_ different from the male. The term 'whole-body' orgasm is decidedly female - lucky girls! Perhaps this ties in with the needs we have once the male has withdrawn? Men are usually exhausted to the point where they could happily turn over and go to sleep. I've even heard that a male's point of climax is equivalent to running a sub four minute mile, in terms of energy spent!







Women, on the other hand, want to cuddle; lie together and enjoy the closeness and warmth of their partner. All this is a generalisation, of course.

Yes, it is. Women who ejaculate get that spent feeling.


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## ~Nikki~ (Aug 4, 2004)

Quote:

Oh yeah, my DH is intact...and I've had both intact and cut partners, and I have noticed a difference in thier whole "O" Face.








I hear ya. Thinking back, I used to beleive that I was a horrible sexual partner. Prior to DH, I had only been with circumsized partners. I can remember it being like russian roulette, whether I would climax or not. "Faking it" just so they would let me go to sleep, was a common practice. It was a different kind of sex, for sure. In the 5ish years I've been with DH, I have never ONCE had to fake it. Sex suddenly got good! It felt "real." And like others have mentioned, an intact man's climax is much different to see/experience than a circumsized man's.

I think this is a good discussion. Certainly, sexual pleasure shouldn't be the first or only reason to leave an infant intact. But it definitely drives the point home that YES, this skin DOES have a purpose. It's not just there because God screwed up and miscalculated the amount of skin to put on the naughty bits.  It's not disposible. It has a purpose - _many_ purposes - and there is no reason to rip it off of an infant.


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## Islay (Apr 29, 2006)

*alsoSarah*: Thank you, I will do as you suggest and check my profile - though I _did_ include my location when I registered..!

*DaddyJoe*: I applaud your present state - well done! Just shows what determination and perserverence can do, eh? As you readily acknowledge, a restored foreskin cannot fully duplicate a natural one because of the nerves that were cut away with the circumcision, but I imagine it does wonders for the glans, even if keratinisation has set in. Does the glans' exquisite sensitivity return? Oh, and does the process of stretching the skin tend to carry pubic hair onto the shaft? (Though, if it does, a couple of minutes waxing or shaving would deal with that.







)

You mentioned the "ladies who are turning this thread into argument". I must say that, for me, I welcome their input provided it keeps to the overall subject of circumcision and, more particularly, RIC. It's the stuff of debate which, frankly, is more productive than 'preaching to the converted' on support boards. Baby Centre (oops, Center







) - for all it's faults caused by a top-heavy site and insuffcient bandwidth, had the best circumcision debate board on the Web. Its scores of regular contributers were very saddened by its demise. They kept their support boards: Choosing to Circumcise and Choosing not to Circumcise, but these are classic examples of mutual back scratching; cosy places to spend a little time with like-minded Internet friends. And the moment a modicum of debate creeps in warnings are issued to stay within the guidelines - or else!

That said, Motheringdotcom, with this support/discussion board, do seem to be a great deal more relaxed and sensitive to the need for some debate, which is why I became a member.







Did they once have a dedicated circumcision debate board which was also closed down? Or would it be worthwhile suggesting it? As an established member here, I'm sure you can tell me, please?

*Pandora* & *DaryLL*: Do either of you, nevertheless, sometimes/often feel the need to cuddle afterwards or, at least, fall asleep in the arms of your partner? In my experience this need has always been apparent in my partner/s and I soon learned to reciprocate and enjoy it too - no matter how exhausted I was after my four-minute mile!

DaryLL... not all women ejaculate, of course, but it occurs to me that if the physiological response in a female is similar to that of a male when he ejaculates then it's little wonder you also want to drift off into a blissful sleep.









Christopher, England


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## Pandora114 (Apr 21, 2005)

Quote:

Do either of you, nevertheless, sometimes/often feel the need to cuddle afterwards or, at least, fall asleep in the arms of your partner? In my experience this need has always been apparent in my partner/s and I soon learned to reciprocate and enjoy it too - no matter how exhausted I was after my four-minute mile!
No.

I'm not a cuddler. I get enough touching during the whole sex thing that I just roll over and go to sleep. I can't sleep with someone touching me. HE is the cuddler, not me. He tries to cuddle I go "Nah dont touch me please..I wanna sleep"


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## Wolfcat (Jan 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pandora114*
No.

I'm not a cuddler. I get enough touching during the whole sex thing that I just roll over and go to sleep. I can't sleep with someone touching me. HE is the cuddler, not me. He tries to cuddle I go "Nah dont touch me please..I wanna sleep"









:

I'm not a cuddler and can barely stand an arm wrapped around me. I'm okay with it if HE wants to, but I almost never get that urge.

Also, I'm not an ejaculating woman, but when I have an orgasm, I'm zonked out in about five minutes.

All in all, it seems to me that circing or not has more to do with potential then actual. The rest is up to experience, effort, etc. Sort of like intelligence versus education...


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## DaddyJoe (Dec 30, 2005)

Islay: I can't compare my restored foreskin to what I would have felt if I had been intact because I was circed in early childhood. If you are intact, you can't either. As far as nerves being cut, I think the damage from that is a little overrated. Sorry, if that offends any anti-circers, but I honestly feel it is true. I have a very good friend who was circumcised at 19 and has since restored. He knows how it feels ALL THREE WAYS and has told me that the main difference is just a sense of looseness... the prepuce isn't as tight and snappy anymore. Anyhoo, whether you believe in all that "it isn't as good as natural" stuff or not... all I can really say is how satisfied I am now compared to before... and it is a monumentally huge improvement!!! As far as hair... no... it's not really worse than it ever was. I always had some hair on the shaft from my tight cut... but it has actually receded as I grew new skin, not creeped up. I am very careful what type of skin I put tension on to restore, tho, and I also make sure to hold down the hair and scrotum when manually stretching to prevent any kind of hair creep.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

I do believe that it does feel better being intact, I mean lots of sensitive skin is cut off during circ. And the mechanics are different so the feeling is different. My only disagreement was with a statement that ALL men that are circed are incapable of full body orgasms.


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## Islay (Apr 29, 2006)

Pandora & Wolfcat...

Fascinating responses! Thank you. Though they do gainsay all I have ever understood about female sexuality.







Hey, but it's never too late to learn!

However, it does beg my next question...

Since this thread is about the perceived difference between circ'd and uncirc'd male orgasms, may I ask if either of you have experienced both? It occurs to me that this could be significant. (Forgive me if I'm asking what most long-time members may know already, but I'm new here and a long way from reaching even 'Member' status yet!)

Last question...

Foreplay - surely females need this before sexual intercourse? Or is the anticipation (as in male arousal) sometimes enough?

Christopher


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## Fi. (May 3, 2005)

Quote:

I have a very good friend who was circumcised at 19 and has since restored.
Much different as an adult though. When an adult gets cut, more is saved.


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## DaddyJoe (Dec 30, 2005)

Not necessarily true, because every circumcision is different, and even adults get bad overly tight cuts... but that is absolutely the closest we can come to knowing how different the two are... intact and restored, I mean. I'm not one of those people who like to wallow in despair or complain or try to make mountains out of molehills so I can feel there is some drama in my life. I restored. I love it. My take on the whole intact versus restored debate is this: if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. I know that doesn't sit well with very politically motivated anti-circ people, because it kind of gives people an excuse to go ahead and cut, justifying it with "If he doesn't like it he can always restore." All I care about it being honest... and the honest truth is, I felt there was something missing before. I don't feel that way anymore. I support the right of any ADULT AND FULLY-INFORMED male to circumcise himself if he wants. Hey, it's his loss! I mainly just oppose RIC and try to get guys who feel lacking to restore their foreskins, cause its such a great improvement.


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## PuppyFluffer (Mar 18, 2002)

Just a little reminder to keep ontopic and not delve too much into personal sex issues.


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## phatchristy (Jul 6, 2005)

I have relatives visiting, and have been busy with them (though circumcision has been the topic of conversation with my mom and some BIG family "secrets" have come forward regarding it---aha, for another thread later when I have time).

Here is some of what I was told:

I know a guy who was circumcised as an adult. From what he described, he described it as a moderately loose circ, with a fair amount of intermucosal skin left. He was actually circ'd because of an "idiot doctor while in the military." Anyhow, he did say, before circ he was able to easily achieve what he described as powerful full body orgasms. Afterwards, he said he lost at least half his sensation, and was unable to have orgasms as intense, and nearly all sensation was centered on the penis. He stayed that way for over 10 years...rather frustrated (he even said that he no longer masturbated at all as he said after circ it was a futile attempt at pleasure). Anyhow, he happened upon restoration. It took him about two years, but he said that although it was not the same he said maybe 70% of his lost sensation returned. He did have all his frenulum remaining and he said he was very thankful for that.

I have also talked to three restored men who have said that before restoring the sensation was centered solely on the penis, however after restoration their orgasms were so much more intense and less localized.

Anyhow, regardless of people who want to "think" that there is no difference (trust me, I would love it if that was the case with a cut DH but it is not), these are from what I have read at some of the restoration sites VERY common things.

Anyhow, it really makes me feel sick when I think of how my DH was robbed...and I know some of you out there would say that sexual pleasure isn't one of the most important reasons for not doing a circ...but I have to say that for an adult man (and hey, most of us out there will be spending the vast majority of our lives as an adult) the sexual aspect of circumcision has the most lifelong repercussions. And, we know from examples of restored men, and men who are circ'd as adults that circ does take away that ability to have the fullest orgasms possible for them.

Of course, not everyone is going to fit into a neat box...not are circs are the same (as we have discussed). There is of course variance among women as well (after all, there are women out there who don't need foreplay or cuddling, ejaculate, am multiorgasmic and feel energized after sex







). Hey, I know there's one living in my household







.

But, even if you use that argument..."well, some men are sensitive in some areas more than others", etc...well, frankly why even RISK it by removing anything?

I mean, give your boy a full chance at having the best sexual pleasure that God/nature intended him to have, right?


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## DaryLLL (Aug 12, 2002)

Right. But then, if your goal is actaully to make him enjoy sex less, then you will circ.

After all over a century ago, that was the reason drs recced circing. To reduce masturbation. That is the reason women are mutilated too, to reduce sexual sensation.

Humans really seem to need to control each others' sexuality. They must be really afraid of "natural" sexual pleasure. I wonder why? Is it a form of birth control? Reduce sexual sensation, have less sex, have less babies? And of course, decrease infidelity?


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## Wolfcat (Jan 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DaryLLL*
Right. But then, if your goal is actaully to make him enjoy sex less, then you will circ.

After all over a century ago, that was the reason drs recced circing. To reduce masturbation. That is the reason women are mutilated too, to reduce sexual sensation.

Humans really seem to need to control each others' sexuality. They must be really afraid of "natural" sexual pleasure. I wonder why? Is it a form of birth control? Reduce sexual sensation, have less sex, have less babies? And of course, decrease infidelity?

I think there is a certain amount of unconscious need to decrease sexual desire, to reduce infidelity in women and competition in men...

To clarify, I'm basing this opinion on the biophysiological sexuality studies that I am aware of. These are, of course, animal-based with speculative theorization on human applicability. (There go all of my 50 cent words for the year!







)

Many male animals will cause temporary sexual inhibitions to prevent the females from having the babies of another male (reducing sperm competition, etc.). The things that they can do would make your eyes pop...














:

Anywho, there have been several studies that strongly suggest that many of these instincts are still a subconscious influence on modern, "civilized" humans. So, while we don't do the caveman-dragging-by-the-hair stuff, we still act often in accordance with these desires.


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## Islay (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DaddyJoe*
Islay: I can't compare my restored foreskin to what I would have felt if I had been intact because I was circed in early childhood. If you are intact, you can't either. As far as nerves being cut, I think the damage from that is a little overrated. Sorry, if that offends any anti-circers, but I honestly feel it is true. I have a very good friend who was circumcised at 19 and has since restored. He knows how it feels ALL THREE WAYS and has told me that the main difference is just a sense of looseness... the prepuce isn't as tight and snappy anymore. Anyhoo, whether you believe in all that "it isn't as good as natural" stuff or not... all I can really say is how satisfied I am now compared to before... and it is a monumentally huge improvement!!! As far as hair... no... it's not really worse than it ever was. I always had some hair on the shaft from my tight cut... but it has actually receded as I grew new skin, not creeped up. I am very careful what type of skin I put tension on to restore, tho, and I also make sure to hold down the hair and scrotum when manually stretching to prevent any kind of hair creep.

DaddyJoe, thanks for your response which I read with interest.

To my ever increasing regret, I had to be circumcised about three years ago. (Though I'm delighted to say that all three of my children were conceived whilst my partner and I were still able to enjoy the immeasurable benefits of a foreskin.) So, yes, sadly I can compare.

Respectfully, I must disagree with your comment about the loss of nerves. I'm sure you're aware of their specialised nature and purpose. It's difficult to keep within the guidelines of this board and still illustrate my point, but I will try. (Please read between the words.) Oral... tongue and/or finger... glans... foreskin. The sensation is uniquely exquisite. During sexual intercouse, the inner foreskin and its sensory nerves are designed to work in conjunction with the glans and, well... enough said?

This is _not_ to say that a successful restoration such as yours is not a huge step towards recovering what was lost in your circumcision. The looseness your friend describes is apparent and an inevitable part of any attempt to recreate a naturally existing prepuce. By the way, was his circumcision elective or medically required? If the latter, it could be significant.

Once again, I applaud all your efforts to encourage and assist others wishing to restore. If their success matches yours then their improvement will be equally monumental... good for you and good for them!!

Christopher


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## TigerTail (Dec 22, 2002)

if you don't mind sharing, christopher, i'll ask: what is the medical reason you were given for 'needing' circumcision? (i had a scottish bf that was circ'd at 13, sadly never able to orgasm after.







) and are you attempting to restore? (as for the other details- *cough*, yes, i have been on the other side of that equation, & from my vantage point, it was unique. 'nuff said.)


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## Islay (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Wolfcat*
....... Many male animals will cause temporary sexual inhibitions to prevent the females from having the babies of another male (reducing sperm competition, etc.)........

The following is largely OT, but was prompted by the above from Wolfcat. I apologise in advance!

About a year ago the BBC ran a fascinating TV series entitled: *What If...* Each of these programmes was based on existing, measurable criteria and applied to our future world. One of these discussed and dramatised the ramifications of a disturbing - to say the least - world-wide fact that will affect human reproduction if the trend continues (regardless of a man's penile state _vis a vis_ circumcision, by the way).

Studies show that the human sperm count is dropping, year by year.

The final, slightly tongue-in-cheek, conlusion eluded to a possible matriarchal society where males became treasured for their 'stud' potential or discarded as manual workhorses. Eventually, though, it was postulated that specialised DNA implants would produce the embryos to perpetuate the species.

The stuff of science fiction... or a possibilty??









Christopher


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## Islay (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TigerTail*
if you don't mind sharing, christopher, i'll ask: what is the medical reason you were given for 'needing' circumcision? (i had a scottish bf that was circ'd at 13, sadly never able to orgasm after.







) and are you attempting to restore? (as for the other details- *cough*, yes, i have been on the other side of that equation, & from my vantage point, it was unique. 'nuff said.)

Briefly for the moment, TigerTail (it's very late here!). An emergency caused by paraphimosis following phimosis... which itself was the result of premature retraction when I was 6. It was an abusive incident that I'm not certain is appropriate to detail here. (Perhaps Karen could comment if she reads this?)
Alternatively, by all means e-mail me or send a private message.

Your poor, erstwhile b/f... I can only imagine that the circumcision itself was so invasive (possibly very tight - or worse) that it prevented his ability to orgasm. It _does_ take longer to achieve with no foreskin, and in comparison, even masturbation is hard work.

No, I won't attempt restoration. At least, I think not... largely for the very reason of the reciprocal 'uniqueness' we spoke of.







:

Christopher


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## PuppyFluffer (Mar 18, 2002)

Islay, I think it would be appropriate to discuss the medical technical aspects of what happened that led up to your needing a medical circumcision as an adult. Any personal details of the experience can be shared via PM or email with any members you chose.

I do think that learning about medically necessary circ is informative as the need (however real or not) to be circ'd at an older age or adult certainly does influence people to circ their infants.

I would be interested in the amount of pain perceived and the amount of pain relief provided to you by the medical staff.


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## LadyMarmalade (May 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PuppyFluffer*
I do think that learning about medically necessary circ is informative as the need (however real or not) to be circ'd at an older age or adult certainly does influence people to circ their infants.

I would be interested in the amount of pain perceived and the amount of pain relief provided to you by the medical staff.

Yes, ditto to this.

This thread has been fascinating and informative to read. Thanks everyone!


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## ThomasL (Sep 2, 2003)

I am circumcised but I believe any guy can have a full body O by focusing away from the penis.There is even a book out called The Multi Orgasmic Male which provides techniques to help men have this experience.I used to have them in my sleep before puberty.


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## Islay (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PuppyFluffer*
Islay, I think it would be appropriate to discuss the medical technical aspects of what happened that led up to your needing a medical circumcision as an adult. Any personal details of the experience can be shared via PM or email with any members you chose.

I do think that learning about medically necessary circ is informative as the need (however real or not) to be circ'd at an older age or adult certainly does influence people to circ their infants.

I would be interested in the amount of pain perceived and the amount of pain relief provided to you by the medical staff.

Karen, for the first part, I will do my best to be clinical...

Forced retraction at 6 years old caused injury. The wound healed but left a significant scar which was not overly intrusive until well into adulthood. By this time it became increasingly difficult/uncomfortable to achieve natural retraction during the sexual act. As the years passed, even manual retraction became impossible without pain. At this point it was important to seek medical assistance. Steriod cream and gentle stretching seemed helpful at first, but the scarred flesh had little or no elasticity, which prevented any further benefit. This was a classic example of acquired phimosis, apparently. A dorsal slit was discussed but discarded for asthetic and practical reasons. Intercourse continued, occasionally. It was not pleasant. Finally, paraphimosis occurred. An emergency visit to hospital released the trapped foreskin, but with unequivocal advice - to accept circumcision as soon as possible or refrain from penetrative sex in the future.

I hope it's obvious to any passing visitor to this board that my experience is very much the exception than the rule. I have a twin brother and two younger brothers who are very happily intact; grandsons too. Rather than influence anyone to circumcise their little boys, I hope they will view my circumcision in perspective; and even, perhaps, rejoice that I was able to live through my baby-making days with a fuctioning foreskin.

Pain and pain relief: I opted for a local anaesthetic because a general carries risks, however small. I was distressed and nervous, of course. I didn't want to lose my foreskin. (There was a moment when I discovered the surgeon was female when I wished I had chosen general anaesthesia, but as things turned out, she was probably more caring and reassuring than most males.) The injections in the base of the penis were uncomfortable, to say the least, but once they had taken effect, I relaxed. The best way to illustrate the effectiveness of the anaesthetic is to relate the moment when the first incision was made. One of the attending nurses asked me: "Did you feel that?"

"No," I replied, "Not a thing."

"Just as well," she said. "You'd have kicked her!"

I felt _nothing_ until the anaesthetic wore off, about forty-five minutes later.

The initial pain and prolonged, acute sensitivity of the exposed glans during the next two weeks was hard to cope with, despite strong pain-killers. I can best describe this tenderness as similar to knocking the humerus (funny-bone). It's still with me, though decreasing with time as the glans forms a dry, toughened surface in the absence of its protective prepuce.

I had some problems after surgery with a closing penile meatus and a UTI, but I was told this is symptomatic of adult circumcision.

Christopher


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## gabysmom617 (Nov 26, 2005)

Quote:

A dorsal slit was discussed but discarded for asthetic and practical reasons.
Could you explain please?


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## Islay (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gabysmom617*
Could you explain please?

A dorsal slit is an incision made along the upper side of the foreskin, of sufficient length to release the phimotic condition and allow retraction. Once healing is over, the resulting flap of foreskin that hangs down is not only unsightly but can compromise penetration.

None of the foreskin is removed but it is mutilated and cannot function as nature intended.

Christopher


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## Revamp (May 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phatchristy*
I had a peculiar discussion with my DH about orgasms. I shared with him what mine are like, the fact that they are nearly always full body orgasms (to the extent that sometimes I swear I am floating above my body in ecstacy







). I feel it in my arms, back and incredibly in my face among other places. And, his response was "I feel it on the penis or it feels good on the penis." He didn't really have a concept exactly of what I meant by full body orgasms.

You know those fluttery/shivery sensations that you can have when you run your fingertips over someone lightly on the back/arm/thigh...well, he thinks those sensations are more "sensitive" than what he experiences during direct sexual stimulation. That really got me to thinking/worrying that sex for him sounds more like satisfying an urge and that it feels good, but isn't the "blissful dance of love" that it is for me.









In light of that conversation, I have opened up a bit of conversation IRL with some men who are intact and others who are circ'd. It seems that all the intact men KNOW what I am saying when I describe the sensations that I feel. They seem to have the "full body sensations" the way that I do. On the other hand, it seems like nearly every cut guy is saying that things are centered on the "penis" and they don't have a mental concept of a full body orgasm.

I don't have a big sample to go from, so I thought I might ask some opinions on this? Also, I know we have restored/restoring men here. Might they comment on the differences before/after with regards to this?


Whatwhatwhatwhatwhat*WHAT?!*

I had heard that circed guys missed out but I never imagined that it was _this_ bad!

I feel those all the time, I can not imagine doing without...


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## SkyDweller (Mar 1, 2006)

Quote:

Originally Posted by phatchristy
they are nearly always full body orgasms (to the extent that sometimes I swear I am floating above my body in ecstacy ). I feel it in my arms, back and incredibly in my face among other places. And, his response was "I feel it on the penis or it feels good on the penis." He didn't really have a concept exactly of what I meant by full body orgasms.
Yep! Precisely my experience. I remember hearing my best friend tell me about his wedding night. No, no details, but all he told me it was special between them, and that it was 'different' than he'd expected. The idea was that it wasn't as exciting as he'd envisioned it would be. He is circed and they waited til their wedding night. I do know in later years he was very disappointed that she wouldn't give him oral. (related??)

What has amazed me is this: I'm choosing to wait until marriage for the 'act', but in fooling around and sometimes just kissing, ex gf's have been *extremely* responsive. Just cuddling with them, or kissing. One gf went into spasms and 'woke the neighbors'







. I remember her telling me about a prior bf who couldn't come inside of her--she asked me why that might have been --was it an inadequacy in her? I didn't know--now I know--her bf was circed!! My current g/f and I can be just laying on the couch in each other's arms, fully clothed, just kissing, and she can come again and again and again. It's amazing. Me? It takes an act of Congress. And though I enjoy seeing her response, sometimes I've felt like I'm accomdating her--rather than just reveling in the joy of just being together. (I had just started restoring when I met her, and taking the tape off, I _was_ more sensitive to rubbing against her, but still nothing compared to her 'earth-shaking' experiences. And increasingly I've realized that the girls I've dated get WAAAYYYYYY more out of our sexual experiences than do I
















I have to admit that sometimes I read these posts I get so angry at what was done to me. (and perhaps a bit 'down') But it does help for me to actively talk parents out of 'circing'--very exciting to see my friends 'see the light'.


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## Nathan1097 (Nov 20, 2001)

Skydweller









All I can say is its a different world with my intact boyfriend.


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