# Free-range kids tribe



## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Hi, I wanted to see if anyone was interested in sharing about their experiences in allowing their kids greater freedom to move about their neighborhoods and cities on their own? The name "Free-Range Kids" comes from the book, movement, and website by that name, written/started by Lenore Skenazy.
http://www.freerangekids.com/


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## elliha (Jul 20, 2014)

I just have a 3 year old but I agree much with this perspective and I do try to give her age appropriate freedom whenever possible. I try to train her to be able to handle more freedom later too. I think children should be inspired to make decisions and be able to handle as many situations as possible.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Hi Elliha, it is great to hear from a mom with a younger child and also from a mom living in Sweden, as I think this can introduce different perspectives, and highlight interesting differences in our communities. 


We began the transition to free-range (or what some call just normal parenting, LOL) at a somewhat later time. Our girls are 15 and 10, and it was when our older daughter was around 10 (as our younger daughter is now) that she expressed a strong need to be allowed to walk places on her own. We started out by getting a big Labrador and letting her take her out for walks, which gradually got longer and longer, and we eventually became comfortable with her walking or bicycling places even without her canine protector.


I think our sense of security is somewhat challenged by the fact that we live in a part of the inner city that's considered pretty high-crime. Just since school started this fall, there have been two young people shot near us. One, a 15-year-old boy, was shot a few blocks from our house (right where our own 15-year-old catches the school bus), while he was walking home from school. As I understand it, another young man got out of a car and attempted to rob him, and then shot him in the chest and took off. As of the last I heard, the victim is recovering from the ordeal. But there was also a 19-year-old not much father away who was shot while on his front porch, and he died.


But at any rate, I've lived in this neighborhood for a total of about 21 years and have pretty much always felt safe when out walking, and have never been the victim of a violent crime. And I feel like most people in ANY part of town, in any part of the world, are good, kind, and trustworthy.


And so about a week ago, our younger daughter expressed the desire to start walking to and from school on her own. Her school's about a mile away, and I've enjoyed taking the walk with her -- but at the same time, I want her to get the same wonderful taste of independence that her sister also craved and has grown so much from. So she's now taking this trek on her own and we're so proud of her. There was even one morning when the crossing guard who's stationed at the one busy street she has to cross was running late for work, and dd, of course, had absolutely no problem pushing the crosswalk button and handling it by herself.


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## elliha (Jul 20, 2014)

Wow, well shootings would scare me a lot but I assume as always there are things you learn when you live in a neighborhood which means that you can get around some of the dangers that come. 

I don't live in the best neighborhood myself but very violent crime like shootings do not happen very much (one in 8-10 years from what I can remember). There have been problems with youth gangs who went around robbing people (thankfully that was stopped a couple of years ago and they have not reemerged), the typical things like graphitti, littering, destruction of property, small fights and things like that do happen. Overall I do feel safe here though. I have lived here for a long time and I know how things work and when it is best to keep a distance. 

There are also tons of positive things like a diverse population with people from all over the world, people look out for each other and the location in relation to the city center and my work is good, far enough away to not feel busy and close enough to be able to ride a bicycle to work with ease. The local school is actually rather good and I don't have that much money so I rather have a 3 bedroom apartment here than a 1 bedroom apartment in a good neighborhood. I grew up in a small town and hardly met a person who was not Swedish and white until I was maybe 10, my daughter probably has no clue that there are children who live in areas where everyone looks the same, eats the same things and belong to the same religion. To her it is natural some people do not eat pork and their mothers wear veils, others speak Chinese at home and others have dark skin and speak Swahili and so on. That is just life to her.

I love to see my child grow with responsibility too and I am glad your daughter can do that as well. Given her age my daughter's independence is small but she loves taking care of the things she can handle like choosing which apples to buy and carefully putting them in the bag or picking her own clothes or being able to walk around on her own in areas where there is not much traffic. For her age she can give me reasonable suggestions what to buy at the store and not just scream for candy or icecream (although that happens too). She is not a perfect kid by any standard but she loves being treated with respect and being listened to and believed to be capable. She is strong somehow and I think it is partly down to how we have tried to raise her.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Yes, I feel like the risk of one of my girls being shot here is practically nonexistent -- and, as someone pointed out to me at the Free Range Kids blog, my being with them wouldn't alter that risk in the slightest -- and also, people can get shot while riding in (or driving) cars, and right through the windows of their houses, too. Plus, of course, car travel increases the risk of being injured or killed in a car accident.


I think it's awesome that you're able to bicycle to and from work! It's unusual for people in my extremely spread-out Midwestern city to be able to find good jobs so near their homes. We have a bus system, but don't have enough people per square mile (about 5000 -- as compared to the roughly 27,000 per square mile in New York City) to support a really efficient metro service that goes everywhere in the city at the times when many people would be starting or finishing work. So practically everyone who can afford it drives a car -- but there are some great people lobbying for a better, safer situation for bicyclists.


My 10-year-old, who'd previously insisted that she didn't want to learn to ride a bicycle (my 15-year-old did ride for a while but kind of fell out of the habit) has now expressed an interest in learning. I think one reason is that she sees one of her classmates coming to and from school on her bicycle every day; I think seeing this is also what inspired her to decide that she wanted to walk independently. So we'll be either fixing her sister's old bike or getting her a new one so she can start learning soon. Which I know will bring me a whole new level of fear to grapple with, because of how many drivers in our city are not all that aware of bicyclists.


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## jazzmom74 (Jun 10, 2015)

My 9-year-old has been taking walks around our neighborhood this summer. She loves the freedom, loves being able to take time for herself. She has a friend a few blocks over so this allows her to move between their houses as well. I don't know that I think of her as free range kid though, mainly because I had the same freedoms at that age and there were no labels. I simply view her as experiencing-appropriate activities that help her learn and grow, sans contemporary terms.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Hi jazzmom74, I totally agree! This was completely normal parenting when I was a kid, too (I was born in 1964). But I'm not so sure how effective it would have been to start a "Normal Parents Tribe," LOL. Plus it seems like it is now an area for discussion, whereas it was so normal in the past that it was pretty much taken for-granted like breathing. Some years back, when my older daughter was tiny and my younger daughter wasn't born yet, I recall hearing two moms of teens in my neighborhood talking about how they didn't feel safe letting their daughters walk anywhere alone -- they had to be part of a group. It's strange but some parents around here feel like their daughters are more at-risk than their sons, even though the two teenaged shooting victims I mentioned were both male, and I actually think males are at a much greater risk of being shot than females in general.


I will say that we haven't been subjected to the criticism or unwelcome interventions that some parents have, since our girls were both 10 when they started wanting to take off on their own (they had previously had lots of experience walking around the neighborhood with me, and actually preferred being with me up till about age 10). Soon after our older daughter started the "free range" (or normal, age-appropriate  ) adventure, she did have someone warn her that she needed to be really careful when she walked her dog around the track at the park that's near our home, because this person felt the park wasn't safe. I guess that's kind of indirectly a criticism of us, her parents, for allowing her to do this -- but at least this person didn't attempt to interfere with our judgment regarding what was best for our own child. 


But other than that, I gather that once kids are 9 or 10 or so, some people may feel like they wouldn't feel safe letting their own children have that degree of independence, but they treat it as a "different strokes for different folks" kind of issue and aren't so inclined to pick up the phone and call Child Protective Services -- except, of course, that there was that woman in South Carolina who was arrested last summer for letting her 9-year-old play on her own at the park. But maybe the size of the child makes a difference? We're a very tall family -- our 15-year-old is now 5'9 1/2" tall like me, and our 10-year-old is on the same growth track and I believe she's right about 5'1" tall now. So when people see them out walking, they may assume they're a couple years older than they really are.


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## jazzmom74 (Jun 10, 2015)

Oh, I totally get you, too.  I just find it funny that as you said, this was totally normal parenting back in the day and now it's viewed as neglect in some cases. It isn't just parenting...it is everything that we seem to have to label these days. But you are right, since things seem to have changed, it's nice to be able to easily find like-minded individuals to discuss and compare your choices with. I guess that's kind of what the labels do, right?


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Right, kind of like how 100 or so years ago, mothers learned breastfeeding from their mothers, aunts, grandmothers, sisters, and the other women around them, and probably would've laughed at the idea of anyone forming a group like La Leche League. These days, sometimes we have to "learn" to be natural.


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## Turquesa (May 30, 2007)

I love the FRK book and blog. But I had to quit reading it because ironically, doing so gets me worried about another danger--paranoid do-gooders calling the authorities over my free-range kids! :lol Fortunately, I live in a pretty close-knit community where, for better and for worse, neighbors keep an eye on each other.


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## elliha (Jul 20, 2014)

I think big harmful idea is that children because they are not as developed as adults are completely unreliable and completely lack consequence thinking. It is true that they cannot always assess risks as well as adults but that does not mean they lack this skill at all, it is like saying a 2 year old cannot walk just because they do not walk as fast and as easily as an adult. Also, as an adult you can teach them and help them get better at assessing their situation and thus be ready earlier. My daughter walks around on the side walk without holding hands and sometimes several meters behind me. I know she knows not to run into the street and that she will not run off because this has been practised so many times now. I trust her and she knows not to violate this trust by doing dangerous things.

My friend claimed it was just down to my daughter being calm and that nothing like this could be done with her daughter. I then one day when we were by a lake and the children were playing and my friend's daughter was constantly running off the mother needed to go away for a bit to talk on the phone. I basically taught her daughter to not run into the water or out onto the pier in 20 min and it stayed the whole summer and into this summer. I just defined the area she could run in by watching the water edge and every time she got to close I turned her around and pointed to where it was safe to run. It was more of a challenge due to her being faster and more tenacious than my daughter but the same technique worked on both of them. A bonus was the perceived freedom to run around within sight of the parents and more safety for the parent because the child was not constantly trying to run away. (And yes, of course they were allowed to go in the water and onto the pier with a parent present but a 2 year old is not old enough to go in the water on their own as small children can drown even in very shallow water if they fall. This summer at 3 my daughter was allowed being in the water herself with me on the beach watching from very close by.)


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Turquesa, I totally understand about how reading about all the ways that paranoid people can interfere with families, can scare some parents away from allowing their kids as many freedoms as they'd like to. I even learned on the blog about how at least one British school has informed parents that they will call Child Protective Services if they learn that their children have played certain kinds of computer games before whatever age the school considers to be an appropriate age. It used to be that parents might just worry what others might "think" of their parenting choices -- but now the "thinking" often seems to go hand-in-hand with forceful, legally-supported interventions. I really admire parents like the Meitivs who stayed the course regarding letting their own children walk places, and brought about some really positive legislation for families. I think most parents, me included, would have caved to the pressure out of fear of losing my kids. I'm glad you've got such a great community!


elliha, your friend must've been so thankful to you!


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## Turquesa (May 30, 2007)

Elliha, you handled the situation well. Drowning is a common cause of death and accidents for kids, so I'm not so "free-range" when my non-swimmers get around water. On the other hand, the goal isn't to create an unhealthy fear of water, but water should humble them enough to be careful.

Is anyone else having a hard time finding social acceptance for this parenting choice? I'm convinced that there is an unusual amount of very, very protective parents in my area.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

I totally agree about water! 


I haven't gotten any negative feedback thus far (other than indirectly when dd1 told me about the person who warned her about the park not being safe) -- but there probably are some folks who privately think we're crazy. If they'd started taking off on their own at 7 or 8 instead of 10, we might be getting a lot more flack, though. And especially if they were itty-bitty for their ages instead of being so tall. I imagine Free-Range (AKA normal  ) kids who are small for their ages have to put up with almost continual "well-meaning" interference in some parts of the U.S.


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## jazzmom74 (Jun 10, 2015)

Turquesa said:


> Elliha, you handled the situation well. Drowning is a common cause of death and accidents for kids, so I'm not so "free-range" when my non-swimmers get around water. On the other hand, the goal isn't to create an unhealthy fear of water, but water should humble them enough to be careful.
> 
> Is anyone else having a hard time finding social acceptance for this parenting choice? I'm convinced that there is an unusual amount of very, very protective parents in my area.


I guess I feel that this practice of interfering with others' choices is so ridiculous that I just don't worry about it. I know there have been court cases in the news and that I should probably be more fearful of some "well-meaning" (that is, interfering, nosy  ) stranger, but I'm just not. Maybe I'm just naive, I don't know. Then again, my daughter hasn't ventured beyond the neighborhood yet. Maybe when she asks to ride to the park or elsewhere across town the paranoia will set in!


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

jazzmom74, I imagine it's totally different in different kinds of communities.


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## Turquesa (May 30, 2007)

May I threadjack?

In social situations, how do you handle decidedly _non_-free-range parents? I have this neighbor dad who epitomizes helicopter parenting. Watching him chase his toddler around with frantic neurosis would be comical if it weren't so sad. He won't even let her climb anything on the playground. Yes, he actually removes her from the equipment when she tries to climb. :duh

It goes without saying that it's not my business to intervene in how he chooses to parent her. The problem is that he's crossing boundaries with _my_ parenting by constantly getting on my kids. He's not worried about my own children's safety so much as his daughter's: "Hey! Careful with that stick! You could hurt Chloe with it!"

Last night was my last straw: "Hey, hey, hey! We do NOT kick balls around other people!!" Ummmmmmmmm, dude? It's called soccer. That's how soccer is played. :duh :bang

This transpired while I was busy gathering up my other kids to leave. Other neighbors were out, and I really didn't want to create a scene because anything I said at that point would have been a reaction and not a response.

But yea. I was irritated. :irked Do any of you have a graceful way of handling these situations?

And by the way, he's not the only parent like this in my area. (I feel pretty counter-cultural here). He's just the most notorious.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Yeah, it's one thing when they're hovering over their own child -- but it can get pretty annoying when they want to interfere with other kids' play. I think I'd just try saying what you were thinking -- that this is how soccer is played. Surely the dad has had some exposure to sports -- it sounds like he's just lost touch with his awareness of basic life facts while struggling to keep up with a busy toddler. Maybe even seeing a little mild annoyance over his paranoia will help him see that he needs to lighten up...


My own husband has a super hard time trusting that our kids will be okay out in the great big world. Case in point: a few weeks ago, I let my 10-year-old daughter play at the home of a classmate who lives about three blocks from us after school for about 1 1/2 hours. When dh wondered where she was and I let him know, he was like, "Are you sure that's a good idea?" and I said I'd talked with the mom and they were a really nice family -- and he said, "So was Jeffrey Dahmer's family."


He also initially said no when she wanted to start walking to school on her own, and commented something along the lines of him being the only one who had any sense (this directed at me). But within a couple of days, he'd come around and realized it was a good idea.


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## Turquesa (May 30, 2007)

mammal_mama said:


> Yeah, it's one thing when they're hovering over their own child -- but it can get pretty annoying when they want to interfere with other kids' play. I think I'd just try saying what you were thinking -- that this is how soccer is played. Surely the dad has had some exposure to sports -- it sounds like he's just lost touch with his awareness of basic life facts while struggling to keep up with a busy toddler. Maybe even seeing a little mild annoyance over his paranoia will help him see that he needs to lighten up...


Ohhhhh, I'm pretty sure that saw me scowl! :blush Under the circumstances, a poker face just wasn't going to happen. :lol

I do need to start speaking up. I may not rehash with him what happened last night, but I need to be on high alert, even if it's just to yell toward my kid, "He doesn't really mean it, honey. I know you're just trying to start a soccer game. Go ahead."



> My own husband has a super hard time trusting that our kids will be okay out in the great big world. Case in point: a few weeks ago, I let my 10-year-old daughter play at the home of a classmate who lives about three blocks from us after school for about 1 1/2 hours. When dh wondered where she was and I let him know, he was like, "Are you sure that's a good idea?" and I said I'd talked with the mom and they were a really nice family -- and he said, "So was Jeffrey Dahmer's family."
> 
> He also initially said no when she wanted to start walking to school on her own, and commented something along the lines of him being the only one who had any sense (this directed at me). But within a couple of days, he'd come around and realized it was a good idea.


That must present an interesting dynamic in a marriage. For some marriages, (not necessarily yours), I'd imagine it would create quite a strain. Has your DH read _Free Range Kids _or at least the blog? My DH has fortunately been on board, although some occasional gray areas come up. But we can talk about it civilly.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

It can create a strain, but I try to be chill about it. It seems like anytime we FIRST start talking about one of our girls' desires to branch out and become more independent in some new way, he's very resistant and accuses me of not having much sense about what the real world is like. Then once he has time to process it, he decides it's a good idea and he's cool with it. So I kind of recognize the cycle -- now that they're 15 and 10, LOL.


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## Turquesa (May 30, 2007)

I think you have a great attitude. You and your DH have found a rhythm that has wiggle-room for disagreement but enough sanity to hold things together.

Part of my issue is that FRP is somewhat new to _me_. I'm from that generation raised with fear of stranger-danger and poisonous Halloween candy. (If you grew up in my time, you'll remember the McGruff houses). I need to build up enough confidence about what I'm doing that I can better handle other-parent encounters.


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## elliha (Jul 20, 2014)

I have taught my daughter from the start that people in general are nice and friendly and that we should not be afraid of them. That doesn't mean that I totally ignore the risk of pedophiles and that this does not scare me because it does. She is only 3 so right now I only tell her to not go away from me and I have talked about the right to your body, you do not need to hug someone, your genitals should not be touched without permission and that if you ever meet a "bad" adult tell mommy or another "nice" adult about the bad adult. The risk of abduction is minimal but if abuse happens it is sadly often someone you have already let into the circle so this is why I have yet not talked about such things. 

When she starts going outside on her own and go to the park I am going to tell her that these are the people I might send to collect you from the park for some reason and if anyone else says that you should go with them you can be sure they are lying and you should rather run the other way than follow them. There are a few very bad adults who might harm kids and they sometimes say things like that to get kids to go away with them so it is easier to hurt the kid. I don't think you will ever meet such a person but they do play tricks like that. If you stay in the park or anywhere were there are other people you are usually safe from these people but if you follow them they have the power. Tell me immediately if such things happen to you or another kid. My own mom said something similar to me and it worked out fine.

I believe in preserving the child's natural instinct to avoid danger while not making them believe danger is everywhere or that absolutely everyone is great. I do however want to tell my child the truth and that is that most people are completely harmless to kids, even people who might be offensive to adults are often much more friendly towards kids.


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## elliha (Jul 20, 2014)

How do you feel free range has played into other choices such as education for you?


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Great question, elliha. We unchooled our girls up until the time when each wanted to start school -- our older daughter at 13, our younger just this past fall at 10. And I'd say that we're pretty much not at all into scheduling their lives -- but our older daughter now has a pretty busy schedule, because of her own desire for this.


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## Nazsmum (Aug 5, 2006)

May I join?



elliha said:


> How do you feel free range has played into other choices such as education for you?


For me homeschooling does make me thing twice about sending them out alone during the day. During the summer or school holidays no problem.

But on the other hand. The other day I sent my 6yr into a shop to get me a drink alone. Not busy in the middle of the day...so not worry about a long line. (long wait time)


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