# Article "What should I do when I see someone hitting their kid?"



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

http://www.nospank.net/stang.htm

Pat


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

Interesting, I haven't seen that site before. I should order some of those pamphlets. I've rehearsed in my mind what I would do if I saw someone being abusive to their child in front of me, but I've never had to do anything and I'm not sure what I would do.


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## charmarty (Jan 27, 2002)

That was awesome. I will be using some of those.

I have made it my personal mission to say somehting or DO something when I seea child in danger. ANY kind of danger.

Thanks for the link!


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## captain crunchy (Mar 29, 2005)

Thank you for posting that Pat...I read it with interest... I have always said or done something when I see a child being hit...I think I need to be a bit more suave though because it usually becomes ...um....a bit confrontational, even though that is not my goal...

I will save that article!


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## Dal (Feb 26, 2005)

I've never seen a child being hit and hope that I never will!!!! (Perhaps the title should be "What should I do if . . ." but, anyway, . . . I am going to read it now just in case this is something that I eventually am subjected to.









In Canada, at least in Ontario, it has been my experience that people do not spank in public. There is a HUGE taboo about it.


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## Anuska (Nov 13, 2005)

I disagree with some of the authors suggestions. Not ALL Situations can be judged so easily. She uses "being hit" but does not differentiate between a slight smack on the butt for a child doing something dangerous like climbing an isle shelf. One has got to be careful in judging, every situation is so different.....or one could call the CPS on a perfectly acceptable and loving family for a reason not worth having their child possibly taken away.

True, violent abuse is not usually missed and should be reported.


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## angelpie545 (Feb 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Anuska*
I disagree with some of the authors suggestions. Not ALL Situations can be judged so easily. She uses "being hit" but does not differentiate between a slight smack on the butt for a child doing something dangerous like climbing an isle shelf. One has got to be careful in judging, every situation is so different.....or one could call the CPS on a perfectly acceptable and loving family for a reason not worth having their child possibly taken away.

True, violent abuse is not usually missed and should be reported.


I agree. Spanking is legal in all states so calling the authorities won't do any good in the case of a swat. True public abuse, like the PP poster should of course be reported immediately.


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## annab (Mar 25, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Anuska*
One has got to be careful in judging, every situation is so different.....or one could call the CPS on a perfectly acceptable and loving family for a reason not worth having their child possibly taken away.

I would not call a family that hits 'perfectly' acceptable or 'loving'. A dangerous situation is still not an excuse for violence. We all just hope that it is a good mom having a crappy day, so I would definitely try to intervene personally before calling the authorities. However, if the person is becoming more intense, I would assume there was an anger management problem. An anger management problem needs to be addressed when someone is raising a child. I would hold out for the hope that a good-intentioned family would get the parenting classes they need to stop being violent.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

This is good, except I have to disagree on the part about calling the authorities. Would you call the DMV if you saw someone driving poorly? Well, IME, CPS is an equally inefficient, bumbling bureaucracy, only the lives of children are involved. I have found few instances where a child is better off being removed from a home, even an abusive one. As we all know, attachment to parents is a powerful force.


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## johub (Feb 19, 2005)

Thank you so much for posting this excellent list Pat!
As a nonconfrontational person (in person that is) by nature I have often felt that there is no way I could respond. But this list gives people like me some options, such as being a witness. I might not be able to confront anybody face to face (and actually say anything useful) but I could watch closely and make them uncomfortable continuing. Joline


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## phaeon (Nov 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah*
This is good, except I have to disagree on the part about calling the authorities. Would you call the DMV if you saw someone driving poorly? Well, IME, CPS is an equally inefficient, bumbling bureaucracy, only the lives of children are involved. I have found few instances where a child is better off being removed from a home, even an abusive one. As we all know, attachment to parents is a powerful force.

I have to agree with PP. Keep the government out of the child-rearing business!


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## mamaverdi (Apr 5, 2005)

I can't ever remember being spanked in public, though I was spanked in private probably several times per DAY as a child. I was OFTEN threatened in public.

I sure wish someone had called CPS on my parents.


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## annab (Mar 25, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah*
Would you call the DMV if you saw someone driving poorly?

Not the DMV, but 911, certainly. I have called for an driver who was out of control and once for a family who had very small children who were not in restraints.

I think it is our duty as responsible citizens to stop that which is a danger to others, whether it is someone recklessly careening through lanes of traffic or a father lighting up his child's rear end. I do think that CPS is a sad choice for recourse, but I think it is worth it to save a child from physical and emotional pain.


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## aira (Jun 16, 2004)

I remember being spanked in public and others looking at me like "see there, that's what you get if you're bad" kind of looks...

I even remember my father telling me that I'd better not get any ideas about getting anyone else to help me - just for looking around. Like, I wasn't taking his punishment seriously if I didn't look in his eyes.

But he saved the worst if it for private. Many times the worst came specifically because I had looked at someone else while being spanked in public.

That's a real comment on the mind of child abusers...

But seeing as my mother was useless at protecting me, I would have benefited greatly if someone somehow would have intervened. I never even knew there was anyone who could or would help me.

One of my favorite responses came from (I think) Jan Hunt on the Natural Child Project site. In one of her articles about this she said that one of her most used responses is a deadpan: "Children are not for hitting."

As I recall, she stated that she speaks to the parent, but is really speaking to the child.

I'll try to look it up...

ETA: I'm editing again to just put up the whole list... They're all good.

http://www.naturalchild.org/articles..._advocacy.html


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

I think it is the one linked here (at the bottom of the page): http://www.naturalchild.com/jan_hunt/tenreasons.html

Pat


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annab*
Not the DMV, but 911, certainly. I have called for an driver who was out of control and once for a family who had very small children who were not in restraints.

OK, maybe a bad analogy.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annab*
I think it is our duty as responsible citizens to stop that which is a danger to others, whether it is someone recklessly careening through lanes of traffic or a father lighting up his child's rear end. I do think that CPS is a sad choice for recourse, but I think it is worth it to save a child from physical and emotional pain.

I know this has been hashed out here before, but please take the time to do some research into the choice of CPS before you choose to call them. The chances that you are going to "save a child from physical and emotional pain" by getting CPS involved are minute. There is a larger chance that the child will only suffer more and greater emotional damage by being ripped from the one home they know and losing their attachment, however tenuous, to their parents.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

There are a lot of other suggestions on that list that do not involve calling CPS. I found it to be a helpful article. Thank you for posting it, I've reposted the link several other places.


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

I only wish more pepple called CPS when I was a child, I was in foster care when I was 6 and loved it. I wish I could have stayed with that family forever. CPS was called in when I was 9 and I lied because I was scared (the girl at school told her parents about the scabbed over wounds all over my legs to her parents and they called) Children need adults to be speak up for them.


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## ThinkBlu (Oct 17, 2005)

I like the ones about interviening early and about holding comments until all parties have had a chance to 'cool down'. I think that except in cases of obvious abuse (I'm one of those who does not equate spanking with abuse) to interfere in the heat of the moment is more harmful than helpful and often times adds to the humiliation of the child.

Not surprising, I found some of the language 'extreme'. I choose not to spank, but as a child I was spanked and I in no way think it was an act of violence or abuse. I think using words like that to a spanking parent ensure that the message be labled as 'liberal extreme' and ensures that it not be heard. (Kinda like calling a pro-choice proponent an advocate of murder)

FYI - DH and I both come from a retail background, and the idea about invoking management wouldn't have worked at any of the places at which we worked. Many (most, I think) retail establishments train managers what to do in situations such as customer complaints about nursing in public (allow person filing the complaint to vent and be heard, but take no action), customer complaints about parental interactions with children (more complex, but generally in situations involving differing opinions on discipline, give the benefit of the doubt to the parent and allow the person filing the complain to be heard and to vent but don't take action unless the safety of the child is in question-per judgement of management...if deemed the child is not in danger and the complaintent makes threats, offer phone access (public if possible, i.e., a pay phone) to the complaintent so that they can voice their complaint to the authorities) Retail places receive a ton of 'threats' from customers stating they will take their compaint to the next level or invoke the media...employees even at the highest ranks of in-store personel are versed on store policy and generally do not have the authority to deviate from it.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Bumping this thread.

Pat


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## peacelovingmama (Apr 28, 2006)

I was at Barnes and Noble the other day and noticed that someone had left a stack of no-spank stickers on a bench (they said "kid-safe zone, no spanking). I will be printing out the pamphlet to have available to people.

I realize that spanking is currently legal. But that doesn't make it acceptable. Personally, when it comes to domestic violence, I think the gov't should be involved. As in hitting family members should not be legal.


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## Wugmama (Feb 10, 2005)

I understand the thought that even an abused child has an attachment to their parents, but that in no way is a justification for them needing to stay in an abusive home. Of course children will identify with their abuser - it is usually the only choice they have and is like a defense mechanism. But it won't do them any good.

~Tracy


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phaeon*
Keep the government out of the child-rearing business!









: Even if there's ABUSE going on?

I wouldn't call the authorities lightly; I would try lots of the other things on the list first, especially if it's "just" a spanking. If it's someone I saw in a store, I would empathize with the parents and suggest an alternative.

But come on, for child abuse?







I just don't understand the reasoning of keeping the government out of child-rearing there. It's not child-rearing that they're involved with but child-saving. At least where I live, our CPS has a strong focus on keeping families together -- so much so that they've had 2 or 3 children killed by their families after CPS was involved. No, not all interventions are great. But not all families deserve to raise their children either.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

P.S. Thanks for the great list. I've got it bookmarked and am going to get some of the pamphlets. I don't often see spanking, but I do sometimes at our park.

Do you know if they've got them in Spanish?


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Wugmama*
I understand the thought that even an abused child has an attachment to their parents, but that in no way is a justification for them needing to stay in an abusive home. Of course children will identify with their abuser - it is usually the only choice they have and is like a defense mechanism. But it won't do them any good.

~Tracy

You are GREATLY underestimating the attachment of children to their parents! What won't do them any good is to have them yanked out of the only home they've ever known, away from the people that they HAVE formed an attachment to, and be bounced around from place to place. Removal from the home should be a LAST RESORT!

The foster care system is not some sort of saving grace where children's wounds are healed and they somehow emerge whole. And even when they are in the best case scenario, a loving and wonderful foster home, the loss of attachment is a major setback.

Please, please think a little harder about this before you give this advice. Do a little research. Find out where children are placed when they are removed from the home. Talk to some of the social workers. Try to imagine you are a three year old and a disapproving stranger and a policeman come and take you away from the only home you've ever known to a 24 hour daycare where there's no consistency in care, and little regard for you. Please, think about this a little more.


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## Catrinel (Jul 18, 2005)

I liked some of the suggestions in that article. I have to say, though, that I've never seen it happen, or not that I can remember at any rate. Would you intervene in a case of verbal abuse and how?


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## Wugmama (Feb 10, 2005)

Oh gosh, I just meant that if I child was really being abused, it is best to call child protection. I'm not talking about just a family that spanks or something. I have never called child protection execpt once when I was working in the psych ward and a patient needed help for her kids while being hospitalized. I certainly don't make a habit of calling and would never make a call lightly. But obviously there are times when unfortunately removing a child from the home is actually better than leaving them there.









~Tracy


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## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aira*
I even remember my father telling me that I'd better not get any ideas about getting anyone else to help me - just for looking around. Like, I wasn't taking his punishment seriously if I didn't look in his eyes.

But he saved the worst if it for private. Many times the worst came specifically because I had looked at someone else while being spanked in public.

This made me so sad.

I can't even imagine parents treating their children this way. The hitting was probably the least of the abuse involved.

I think all of us have experienced a rush of anger when a child is being persistently loud or contrary, and you're tired, stressed and just unable to cope. I can count them on one hand, but there've been a few times in which I found myself thinking, boy, if I believed in spanking now would be the time!

But this _calculated_ cruelty - planning a beating for later, threatening, denegrating... What god awful place in a human soul does that kind of behavior live?

I can't see it, I don't get it, I will never understand.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Bumping.

Pat


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## elizawill (Feb 11, 2007)

if i saw someone spank their kid in public, chances are i saw that *moment* but was not a witness to their whole day or aware of what escalated to that moment. how many times have we read about MDC members who have lost it and spanked their own children. i'm on here daily and must read that at least a few times a week. should we report them???

plus, i know people have looked at me like i was abusive before, but the truth was....my then 2 year old son was kicking my butt in target and i was just trying to secure him in my arms while we made it to the car so i could go home. i wasn't doing anything wrong or harmful to my child, ...but to an onlooker at that *moment* i may have looked like a terrible mother restraining or kidnapping some poor kid.

sometimes, they actually aren't bad moms....they are just moms who had a bad day.


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## mightymoo (Dec 6, 2003)

I just had a discussion about this the other day with the crime prevention officer in our town. She said that they would like people to call if they see something questionable happening, rather than trying to get involved themselves, but they also understand sometimes a parent just needs a moment to calm down, sometimes they are overwhelmed. Usually she said they will ask the parent if they would like them to watch the child for a while while the parent takes a moment. A call to the police does not equal a call to DSS/CPS. The police would call child services only if they saw evidence of abuse, not just a parent a little over the edge. However, in those cases where serious abuse is occurring, this may be lifesaving for the child. At least that's what they do in my town.







:


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## josephine_e (May 27, 2006)

i found this article really helpful. especially the "witness" part.

i have a question, though. the other day ds and i were at the mall playing in the play area. he was having a great time with a little girl and her 2yo brother. the brother, however, didn't totally realize that he was too little to pick up ds (a very common thing for toddlers, of course). his dad and i told him once that ds was too big for him to pick up. a few minutes later, he tried again and his dad slapped him on the arm, pointed his finger at him and said "no! that's BAD!" i had no idea what to do! the guy obviously didn't see this as anything wrong, but i was in shock. i was also afraid that ds might get upset because he's been very sensitive to my reactions lately, and i knew he'd realize that hitting was a very strong reaction. he didn't seem to notice, but i just stood up and said, "hey, kaibear, we're gonna go to the book store! c'mon!" ... i totally copped out 'cause i didn't know what else to do. i was actually embarrassed to make a "big deal" out of such a small swat.







: of course, afterwards i wished i had said something. ... but what do you say when the incident happens that quickly? :eye contact: "please don't hit your son" ? i just feel like that wouldn't even make sense to the person, kwim?


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah* 
You are GREATLY underestimating the attachment of children to their parents! What won't do them any good is to have them yanked out of the only home they've ever known, away from the people that they HAVE formed an attachment to, and be bounced around from place to place. Removal from the home should be a LAST RESORT!

The foster care system is not some sort of saving grace where children's wounds are healed and they somehow emerge whole. And even when they are in the best case scenario, a loving and wonderful foster home, the loss of attachment is a major setback.

Please, please think a little harder about this before you give this advice. Do a little research. Find out where children are placed when they are removed from the home. Talk to some of the social workers. Try to imagine you are a three year old and a disapproving stranger and a policeman come and take you away from the only home you've ever known to a 24 hour daycare where there's no consistency in care, and little regard for you. Please, think about this a little more.











I hope noone ever calls the cops on me if I have a bad day in public, wow...







:


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *josephine_e* 
... but what do you say when the incident happens that quickly? :eye contact: "please don't hit your son" ? i just feel like that wouldn't even make sense to the person, kwim?

I try to offer empathy for both parent and child, and in conversation suggest "a couple of books that really helped to create cooperation in our family were "Kids, Parents and Power Struggles" and "How To Talk So Kids Will Listen". Sometimes, just redirecting the adult to having an adult conversation changes the energy, because they no longer feel isolated and socially challenged by the child's behavior. Out of probably 20-25 times that I have initiated contact in a heated parental exchange, only once did I encounter an unwelcomed response. I just listened and was sad and cried later. But, I had spoken up for the child's experience, which I trust at least validated the child's feelings.

The unwelcome incident was when a man slapped a child (about 5-7 years old) across the face while standing in line at the CVS. I immediately spoke up and said "Please don't hit her. Hitting hurts." He declared that "as long as I don't leave a bruise, I can punish her as much as I want". I didn't know what to say further, I felt horrible for the child, but knew legally he was "right". I felt very intimidated by his stance and didn't challenge him. It was a very helpless feeling. (I was alone.) I sorta feel that I would have felt stronger if ds had been with me. Because I would have been concerned about his experience of witnessing this. *I* felt like a child being reprimanded, interestingly. With ds, I feel much more Mama Bear, I guess. I wish I had spoken about how I had felt as a child when I was punished, but I really felt mentally/emotionally threatened by his stature, voice and body language.

EVERYONE has *thanked me* for intervening prior to this, when the family was obviously overwhelmed and feeling out of control, even those who had been threatening or had just hit their children in public. In the mall situation, I might say something like 'I know you are concerned that he'll be dropped, but please don't hit, hitting hurts. He was just trying to pick him up. He is having fun learning how big everyone is!', and I might do a light little awkward chuckle to lighten the tension.

HTH, Pat


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## hippymomma69 (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Out of probably 20-25 times that I have initiated contact in a heated parental exchange, only once did I encounter an unwelcomed response. I just listened and was sad and cried later. But, I had spoken up for the child's experience, which I trust at least validated the child's feelings.











Pat - you are a saint. There's no way I would have the courage to do this....I'm so glad there are people like you who give the rest of us courage to act on our convictions....I've never seen anyone except family hit their kids - but if I do (or any family member) then I will think again about remaining silent...

thanks for bumping up all these interesting threads!
peace,
robyn


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## josephine_e (May 27, 2006)

Quote:

but I really felt mentally/emotionally threatened by his stature, voice and body language.
i can 100% relate to this! anger really scares me, so i guess when i see someone being mean to a child, sometimes i don't say anything out of fear of them turning on me!







: i hadn't even thought of it that way until you said that.


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## srbushey (Sep 27, 2006)

I'm glad so many of you would be slow to call CPS on parents spanking in public. First, what CPS will do to children can be a LOT worse than leaving many of these kids in their own home.

Second, I think the Golden Rule goes a long way here. I can only imagine how awful many of us would feel if we lost our children to CPS over something like not vaxing or refusing something like the Vit. K shot for our newborns!!! Or, God forbid, BF'ing in public! (not that I know of any cases, but...)

I also think we're all mature enough to look at a situation and recognize that someone's just handling their difficult child as best they know how or if someone is truly being abusive. I fear anyone here getting so worked up about the idea of hitting _at all_ to the point where they will call CPS over a quick swat on a (likely diapered) rear, (the safest area of the body to spank, if you think you must).

The MAJORITY of parents you will ever meet I imagine, only want the best for their children and most likely have never been introduced to GD concepts. They probably would LOVE to learn more!!!

On the note (or notion) of abuse, what really gets me worked up isn't the occasional quiet mother who gets her kid to behave with a quick swat on the rear, but the mother who screams obscenities and endless threats to her confused and wound-up toddlers, and causes far more of a scene than her children! You can only imagine what goes on in that home pretty much all the time. I just want to go over and almost literally shake sense into that parent/guardian! What is ever said about THOSE people (of whom I see far more in this spanking-paranoid world)?


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## elizawill (Feb 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
The unwelcome incident was when a man slapped a child (about 5-7 years old) across the face while standing in line at the CVS.

that's really awful. i've got to say, i am extremely non-confrontational...but if i saw a child a foot away from me slapped across the face, i don't think i could stop myself from saying something. i think my mouth would blurt out something before my brain could stop it. i bet that was terrible to witness.

that incident doesn't sound like a dad having a bad day & reacting with anger because he lost control of his temper ....i bet that's the norm for him. poor little guy.


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## cellarstella (Jan 2, 2006)

I can't speak for all regions, but what I was told when I contacted police _myself_ as a child (I was so scared!) was that they would open a case and if it happened again then measures would be taken to mediate the situation. I felt really let down and never called again. But from what I've experienced with CPS (or CSD) is that they don't just remove children; they investigate, evaluate, and mediate first.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Bumping.

Pat


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Bumping.

Pat


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## honolula (Apr 11, 2005)

I like # 3, being a witness, except that the parent will in all likelihood think you're glaring because of the child's unruliness, which will just make things worse for the child.

I like #4
I see a lot of spanking/threatening when I'm out, usually when a parent is visibly embarrassed by other peoples' negative reactions to their child's behaviour. A little smile of understanding can mean a lot to the mom whose toddler is pulling jeans off the shelf and running through the dressing room looking under the stall doors, while all the old biddies are glaring and giving poor mama the impression that this is the first they've ever seen a child behave this way and it's ALL. HER. FAULT.

The idea that a business will feel threatened by "I'll contact the local media if you refuse to intervene with something that is fully legal and accepted by society at large" is dellusional. Same thing with invoking the rules of the establishment.

Calling the cops or child services will get you nothing but rolls of the eyes. Spanking is legal.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Here's the thing...... any intervention may make things worse for the child.

You might have gotten my mom or dad to stop in public, but then I would have gotten worse at home. Ya'll please be careful!!!!!


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## J. Jones (Jan 28, 2007)

I had a moment in the kid's play place in the mall that made me proud of my no violence against children ethic. A little (4 y.o) boy was pummeling a big (8 y.o) with his fists. The older kid looked a little shocked, but almost amused. They were right beside me and I only had time to exchange looks with the big kid before the little guy's dad picked up the 4 y.o. and hit him several times on the butt. Before I had time to think about what was appropriate, I said, "Now I know where he learned about hitting." The dad looked shocked and walked away with his kid. I was shaking. I can see why the little guy shouldn't hit his playmates, but his actions seemed normal now.


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## bubs8 (Jan 1, 2008)

Pat,

Thank you for posting this! I was just at our mall's play area and saw a mom spank her son after he was spitting on another little boy. I was so angry, but didn't know what to do, so I just grabbed my LO and hugged her so close to me.

I also don't like when parents ignore their crying babies. DH and I were out shopping and there was a baby (maybe 13 months old) crying and crying. His mom wasn't even paying attention. I casually walked over and began to talk to him, telling him what a good shopper he was being and then his mom looked up and said "I'll hold you in one minute, honey, I'm almost done". He was still crying, but it wasn't nearly as intense once he realized he WAS being heard (if not instantly cared for).


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## cellarstella (Jan 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *J. Jones* 
I had a moment in the kid's play place in the mall that made me proud of my no violence against children ethic. A little (4 y.o) boy was pummeling a big (8 y.o) with his fists. The older kid looked a little shocked, but almost amused. They were right beside me and I only had time to exchange looks with the big kid before the little guy's dad picked up the 4 y.o. and hit him several times on the butt. Before I had time to think about what was appropriate, I said, "Now I know where he learned about hitting." The dad looked shocked and walked away with his kid. I was shaking. I can see why the little guy shouldn't hit his playmates, but his actions seemed normal now.

*chills* Go you! It sounds like you gave him some food for thought, as snarky as it may have come out.







Hopefully your comment will echo in his mind every time he thinks of "disciplining" his son.


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## aschmied (Apr 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThinkBlu* 
I choose not to spank, but as a child I was spanked and I in no way think it was an act of violence or abuse. I think using words like that to a spanking parent ensure that the message be labled as 'liberal extreme' and ensures that it not be heard. (Kinda like calling a pro-choice proponent an advocate of murder)

I agree here. So what do you do when good friends have child rearing practices you can't stand? I've tried talking to them about it, but I have gotten some pretty clear "We choosing not to hear you" vibes. It's nearly killed the friendship, as neither DH or I can stand watching them interact with their kids, but I mourn the friendship and I worry about the kids.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Bumping.

Pat


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