# Which is safer? RE: transitioning our DS out of car seat



## janinemh (Apr 25, 2006)

I have been researching booster seat laws and safety issues and have come upon this conundrum:

From what I can understand, according to Oregon state laws, once kiddos are 40 lbs they have to use a booster seat unless they will be sitting in a lap-belt only seat and then they can just use the belt. I've also read that booster seats can only be used with shoulder belts and are not safe if used only with a lap belt.

We have a little Honda hatchback. The back seat has a lap belt in the middle and shoulder belts on the outside. For maximum safety in case of collision, we try to have DS's car seat in the middle seat whenever possible. So, it seems that we have 2 choices when we transition out of a car seat:

1. In the middle lap belt with no booster (which would be rather nice and uncomplicated--there are middle lap belts in my parent's cars as well)

2. Or, in a side seat with a booster (where he might be more vulnerable should we ever get in a side-impact collision)

If this were your kiddo, what would you feel most comfortable doing?


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

I would not ever ride with a child in just a lap belt. Frankly, I wouldn't want just a lap belt even for an adult. I would use a booster. No question at all.

You don't say how old your DS, though. If he's younger than 4, I don't know that I'd even be comfortable yet with a booster. Boosters are a safe choice for children who fit properly in them, but only if they are able to sit correctly in them. Younger children often don't.


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## janinemh (Apr 25, 2006)

DS will be 4 in a few days. He is 38 lbs, so we will be waiting to switch until he reaches 40 lbs. I'm just thinking ahead and trying to figure out the best option.


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## MariesMama (Sep 26, 2008)

What seat is he using now? Does it only harness to 40 lbs?


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## DoomaYula (Aug 22, 2006)

NEVER use a lap-only belt for anyone -- child or adult. In a crash, you could end up with all kinds of wonderful things, like being cut in half!

Second of all, just because your DS is 4yo, does NOT mean he has to go into a booster seat. There are many seats that harness much longer than 4yo/40lbs. In fact, at your DS' age and size, he could still be rear-facing in several seats.

My 5yo DD is forward facing in a Graco Nautilus that harnesses to 65lbs. She will probably outgrow it by height before 65lbs, but it should get her at least to 6yo.

My 7.5yo twin boys just outgrew Britax Regents which harness to 80lbs.

There is also SK Radians, which harness to 65/80lbs.

In short, the safest way for your DS to ride is harnessed until he is big enough AND mature enough to ride in a booster seat. For most kids, that's not before 5yo.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I would not be comfortable with a 4 yr old in a booster. I would want them harnessed until at least 5.

And ditto- NO ONE in a lap belt.

-Angela


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## MJB (Nov 28, 2009)

I would not personally ride in or let my child ride in a lap-only belt. I'd put them on the side with a high-back booster, or in the center in a harness. You can use the lap belt to install a harnessed seat (which is really all they are safe to be used for).
My 42 lb. 4.5 yr. old is typically harnessed in a Radian but rides in a high back booster sometimes, always with a shoulder belt. My 57 lb. 7 yr. old rides in a high back or backless booster with a shoulder belt.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

No way, never, under no circumstances short of a true life and death emergency should a 4yo ride in a lap belt. The belt will be up on his soft tummy and in a crash, thousands of pounds of force will be directed into his abdomen and internal organs.

Outboard in a high-back booster and three-point belt is acceptable (barely), but at his size and age harnessing is safest.


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## urchin_grey (Sep 26, 2006)

Firstly, the lap belt is DEFINITELY out. No one should be in a lap only belt, much less a small child. There is a huge risk for severe abdominal and spinal cord injuries. I know of a small 5 year old that was recently in an accident in a lap only belt. The belt crushed her organs and her spine and she's now paralyzed. If only she had been in a booster or 5-point harness seat...

Secondly, you are misinterpreting the law. You do not _have_ to move your DS to a booster at 40lbs. He has to be in at _least_ a booster at 4yrs/40lbs. There is a clause in the law somewhere that should say something like "if your child fits into more than one of these categories, it is recommended that your choose the seat that offers the most protection". And since your DS falls into two categories, you have two choices - a 5-point harness seat (with a higher weight/height limit if he outgrows his current seat) or a belt positioning booster.

A booster is not _unsafe_ but most just-turned 4 year olds are just not going to be mature enough to sit properly in a booster 100% of the time. This means no leaning over or out of the seat, no slouching down in belt, no putting the shoulder belt behind him, no unbuckling the belt while moving, etc. Plus, not that it would be the deciding factor for me, but as you said, the center does offer a bit more protection. So if you'd rather him sit in the center, that is perfectly fine, as long as he stays in a harnessed seat. A few to check out would be the Evenflo Maestro, Graco Nautilus, and Britax Frontier (in order from most affordable to most expensive). All 3 will last a considerable time harnessed and all 3 convert to a booster (you'll still need a dedicated booster after the Maestro though because unfortunately the booster mode is outgrown shortly after the harness).


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## blessedwithboys (Dec 8, 2004)

i would keep the child ina harnessed seat at least until the 5th b-day, longer is possible. you may have to buy a new seat witha higher weight limit. you can then keep the child in the middle seat.

if you buy a seat that can be used as a booster when the straps are removed, you will save on having to buy a whole separate booster. try to find a seat with the longest life-span possible so it doesnt expire before your LO is ready to go without a booster. once he moves to booster mode, you will have to put him outboard, which is fine.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

I'd buy a graco nautilus to keep him harnessed for a while longer, and then use it in booster mode outboard.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

In general, I would agree with that, but for a 4yo, I'm not sure I'd worry about the longest lifespan possible. All combination seats are good for at least six years: by age ten, a $15 backless booster is usually an appropriate choice.


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## blessedwithboys (Dec 8, 2004)

i hear ya, i guess i'm just a super thrifty mama! i always think in terms of betting bang for my buck. haha


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

I am too -- but a Frontier85, with a 9-year lifespan, is about $250. A Nautilus, which is 6 years for harness/highback booster and 9 years for backless booster, is $150. A Maestro (harnessed*) plus Turbobooster (highback to backless booster) is $120.

* Technically, the Maestro is a combination harness-to-booster seat, but the booster portion is outgrown very shortly after the harnessed portion, so practically, it is pretty much useful only as a harnessed seat.


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## urchin_grey (Sep 26, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
I am too -- but a Frontier85, with a 9-year lifespan, is about $250. A Nautilus, which is 6 years for harness/highback booster and 9 years for backless booster, is $150. *A Maestro (harnessed*) plus Turbobooster (highback to backless booster) is $120*.

* Technically, the Maestro is a combination harness-to-booster seat, but the booster portion is outgrown very shortly after the harnessed portion, so practically, it is pretty much useful only as a harnessed seat.

And that's why the Maestro is the awesome. If only the booster mode lasted longer, it would be awesome x 1000.


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## JamieCatheryn (Dec 31, 2005)

Neither, I went for a booster with a back that can use it's 5-point harness or the belt positioner to guide the regular seltbelt over his shoulder. DS will be in the 5-point for a while.


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## Minxie (Apr 15, 2008)

My 4.3-year-old DS (48lbs, 48 inches) rides harnessed in a Britax Frontier. He'll stay harnessed until he outgrows the height and weight limitations (around 80lbs so we've a bit of time). When that happens, the Frontier will change over to a booster.

I wouldn't put him into either a lap belt or a booster at his current size and maturity.


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

My 5.5 year old sister just outgrew forward facing harnessed in a true fit...and IMO I think she could have lasted much longer but she decided it wasn't comfortable. And that's not to say I base safety decisions on comfort; she is currently in a high back booster properly installed and I am keeping an eye on a clearanced frontier 85 at my local Target.

I would not use a backless or even belt positioning booster on a 4 year old. Even if it fits well, I just can't see a 4yo consistently sitting correctly to be protected.

Please take a few moments to meet Kyle:






And Isabelle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA9Q0...eature=related

And Joel (at 4 years and 38lbs, your child could technically still be rearfacing in a couple seats, and definitely longer in a Radian XTSL):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8gU9...eature=related

Compare a 5pt harness to a belt positioning booster:






Belt only, no booster:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yUl4...eature=related


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

What's the maximum weight on his car seat? We had dd in a Britax Marathon until she outgrew it torso wise -- that was close to age 6. She still wasn't close to the maximum weight of 65 lbs. (and she's a hefty kid!)

Unless your carseat is only rated to 40 lbs for the 5 point harness, you're best off keeping him in the current carseat until he outgrows it.

We moved dd to a Turbobooster (high back, belt positioning) when she was 5 3/4 and about 55 lbs. She still has to be reminded to sit properly about once every 2-3 weeks.

IMO, the proper belt restraint trumps side impact.


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## janinemh (Apr 25, 2006)

OP here. Thanks for all of the responses. I wasn't aware of the dangers of lap belt (although it was hard to envision my little in one) So that is good to know and we will be avoiding them. We have an Evenflo Triumph car seat which looks like its rated to 50 lbs, and he seems pretty comfortable in that one, so we will stay with that for the time being. My mom has another Evenflo model that he seems to be outgrowing pretty fast--I think it might only go to 40 lbs so I might suggest she get the nautilus for her car.


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

And just keep in mind that a seat can also be outgrown by height before weight - so if his shoulders go over the top slots the seat is outgrown.


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## MacKinnon (Jun 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *janinemh* 
OP here. Thanks for all of the responses. I wasn't aware of the dangers of lap belt (although it was hard to envision my little in one) So that is good to know and we will be avoiding them. We have an Evenflo Triumph car seat which looks like its rated to 50 lbs, and he seems pretty comfortable in that one, so we will stay with that for the time being. My mom has another Evenflo model that he seems to be outgrowing pretty fast--I think it might only go to 40 lbs so I might suggest she get the nautilus for her car.

Great!







Glad to hear you've decided to keep him harnessed! Just keep an eye on the height in that Triumph, straps need to be at or above the shoulder and the top of his ears can't go above the top of the shell of the seat. The Nautilus is a great option for kids at this stage!


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