# s/o of "picky eaters": how do you handle "i'm hungry!" when they didn't eat what you made for dinner?



## jackson'smama (May 14, 2005)

My ds (who USED to be the kid who thought raisins were candy and the best thing at mcdonald's was an unsweetened iced tea and bag of apples WITHOUT the caramel dip) has a thing of refusing dinner with "i'm not hungry" or "it's yucky" and then being starving about an hour later when he goes to bed and he demands a snack.
if you have whatever you would deem a "picky eater" how do you handle when they don't eat what you've prepared? giving in and making a snack seems to be a green light for getting out of eating a "yucky" dinner that he wouldn't even taste, but as a mama, i hate to 'send him to bed hungry'.
btw, he's 3.75 years old.


----------



## FancyD (Apr 22, 2005)

My boy is the same age, and does the same thing. He's non-verbal, so I don't hear 'yuck', but he refuse to eat some of the meals I make. Even though he loved them previously. Sigh. I just make him a sandwich, or cut up fruit for him.

For DS, I think it's a power struggle, and I hate the idea of fighting about food. Overall, DS eats quite well, and always better if I'm not stressing about it.


----------



## maliceinwonderland (Apr 17, 2005)

Mine is older than yours. With her it's not that she doesn't like the food, it's that she's gotten used to eating out at restaurants all the time so she doesn't enjoy eating what I've made for dinner (it's not me taking her out to eat, btw..I wouldn't do that to myself!)

If she doesn't eat dinner and ends up "staving" later on, she can have a bowl of oatmeal before bed or go without. I'm not into doing the short order cook thing.


----------



## meganeilis (Mar 12, 2006)

Well, we don't do "it's yucky". I don't serve "yucky" foods to my family, and DS knows that it's rude say that a dish is yucky or gross. It may not be his favorite , he might not be in the mood for it, but it's not fried worms and mud. If he doesn't want to eat a particular protein or veggie, he fills up on the other dishes on the table (usually a salad, two veggies and a protein).


----------



## shayinme (Jan 2, 2005)

I offer a snack since I really don't want dd going to bed on an empty stomach, she rarealy eats much of the dinners I cook, and with a 16 yo and a 3 yo, plus my own finicky ways finding meals we will all eat is a chore. So I cook it, offer and generally don't have a issue making something else available.

Shay


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I never deny a hungry child. If they don't want dinner at dinner- then they can have another (simple) option- yogurt, etc.

If they didn't eat dinner and are hungry later- then they get food then.

-Angela


----------



## mean_jeannie (Mar 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I never deny a hungry child. If they don't want dinner at dinner- then they can have another (simple) option- yogurt, etc.

If they didn't eat dinner and are hungry later- then they get food then.

-Angela


ditto.


----------



## roxyrox (Sep 11, 2006)

If ds doesn't eat his dinner he can have "dessert" (after everyone else is finished) which is normally a yogurt of fruit.

Later (at least an hour later!) if he asks for something I will make it - normally a cheese sandwich or toast.

I have given up arguments about food. Ds doesn't eat a lot (3-4 bites at most per sitting, even if it is his "favourite"). I just keep healthy stuff in the house now because he likes to graze all day and never eats a substantial meal. I think it is just a stage. Hopefully he will grow out of it soon! I really don't stress now if ds doesn't try his dinner - I serve it, encourage him, but it is up to him. Sometimes bribing him works to _try_ a new thing, (which sometimes he actually _likes_!)







:


----------



## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

We just make sure there are other things available that they like. Mostly snacky things like cereal, breads, cheese, fruit, crackers, peanut butter, etc.


----------



## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

I ask ds what, of the things we have in stock, he wants for dinner.









The foods he likes are all easy things. The end of the day, when he is tired, is not the time I prioritize trying new foods or eating what I made simply because I made it. I give him fruit and vegetables earlier in the day and don't sweat a balanced meal at dinner time.


----------



## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

What do I do? I feed them. Something healthy that they will eat.

And while I'm feeding them, I feel grateful and blessed to have such a wide abundance of food in my house that feeding them something else is possible.


----------



## velochic (May 13, 2002)

I definitely do not feel that I have a picky eater. However all of us in the family have had a night where one of us wasn't really keen on what was for dinner. The same rule applies to all of us... we're allowed to eat as much raw fruit and vegetables as we want... and we have to get it ourselves. If we don't fill our bellies at dinner, fruit and veggies.


----------



## dolcedaze (Jan 29, 2006)

We keep plenty of healthy foods around, and although I don't cook separate meals, anyone who isn't in the mood for what's cooked (DD or DH







) has something else. Some days DD wants everything I'm eating with lots of variety, other days she wants six bowls of plain oats or unsweetened applesauce. I think kids should be allowed food preferences among things that are good choices like anyone else, and it's not worth turning into a power struggle.


----------



## reece19 (May 21, 2008)

My kids are older now (11 and 10), but we have the same rules now as when they were little. If they are hungry after dinner - whether or not they ate dinner - they can eat anything they can make and clean up themselves.

I think we started that practice somewhere between age 2 and 3, and they were probably closer to 4 or 5 before they could snack without any help from me.

We had snacks and dishes on a low shelf just for them to use, and they could get in the pantry and the fridge. At that age, I think they usually had fruit (mainly banana), a fruit cup, bread, crackers, sliced cheese, etc. They could bring a fruit cup to me to open or something, but I didn't do any prep work other than that - and they had to put the trash away.

There were always some exceptions though. For example, if we tried something new for dinner, and they *did* try it but didn't like it, I would make a sandwich or bowl of soup for them to eat.


----------



## tm2840 (Feb 23, 2005)

Depends on the age of the child. A growing two or three year old with a very little tummy I cater to. My 8 year old? As he once said to his sister, "Just have carrots and milk if you don't want that! Mom always lets you have carrots and milk!"

There are times that plain fruit or veggies doesn't do it for me, but a glass of milk adds a little "comfort and protein," (and goes surprisingly well with carrots - tastes kind of like coconut if you have them in your mouth at the same time,







)


----------



## lindberg99 (Apr 23, 2003)

If my kids don't want what's for dinner, they get themselves something else. The only "rule" I have is that they do need to eat a fruit and/or vegetable. If they don't like what I made, they can get some baby carrots, an apple, whatever.

I definitely need to add the "and clean up after themselves" part to that though! Thanks reece19!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
And while I'm feeding them, I feel grateful and blessed to have such a wide abundance of food in my house that feeding them something else is possible.

A & A - This is how I feel too! I've people say that kids should eat what is in front of them because kids in other countries don't have the luxury of being picky. Well, kids in other countries also don't have the luxury of having indoor plumbing but I don't make my kids go outside to go to the toilet or shower off outside with the hose.


----------



## claras_mom (Apr 25, 2006)

pbj, cereal with fruit and milk, yoghurt.....


----------



## MCR (Nov 20, 2001)

I must be the meanest mom ever then.
If Dd doesn't eat her dinner, I put it up on the counter for her, if she asks for food cause she's hungry I give it back to her. She's 3.5 years. She's only done it a few times, she's not a picky eater and will normally eat whatever I put in front of her.
I did the same with both the boys, no arguments no trying to persuade anyone they like anything or the must take bites, the food is there, they can eat if they want it, no battles needed. I don't make alternative meals for anyone. Theres always something that they like included, even if it's just the mashed potatoes or something.
I'm not a short order cook, I do one meal at dinner.


----------



## maliceinwonderland (Apr 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MCR* 
I must be the meanest mom ever then.
If Dd doesn't eat her dinner, I put it up on the counter for her, if she asks for food cause she's hungry I give it back to her. She's 3.5 years. She's only done it a few times, she's not a picky eater and will normally eat whatever I put in front of her.
I did the same with both the boys, no arguments no trying to persuade anyone they like anything or the must take bites, the food is there, they can eat if they want it, no battles needed. I don't make alternative meals for anyone. Theres always something that they like included, even if it's just the mashed potatoes or something.
I'm not a short order cook, I do one meal at dinner.

Actually, this is what I used to do. In fact, I don't even know when the heck I changed from that to oatmeal. I must be getting soft in my old age!

Thanks for reminding me..mean moms unite.


----------



## SeekingJoy (Apr 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MCR* 
I must be the meanest mom ever then.
If Dd doesn't eat her dinner, I put it up on the counter for her, if she asks for food cause she's hungry I give it back to her. She's 3.5 years. She's only done it a few times, she's not a picky eater and will normally eat whatever I put in front of her.
I did the same with both the boys, no arguments no trying to persuade anyone they like anything or the must take bites, the food is there, they can eat if they want it, no battles needed. I don't make alternative meals for anyone. Theres always something that they like included, even if it's just the mashed potatoes or something.
I'm not a short order cook, I do one meal at dinner.

I do this too, and don't think I am mean for it. I never make anyone clean their plate, and there is always lots of options (2-3 veggies, fruit, protein, and grain/starch). Something in there is always a hit, and we just go with that. If it became an issue, I would probably offer something quick and healthy as a backup: oatmeal, ceral, veggies, other leftovers, etc.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MCR* 
I must be the meanest mom ever then.
If Dd doesn't eat her dinner, I put it up on the counter for her, if she asks for food cause she's hungry I give it back to her. She's 3.5 years. She's only done it a few times, she's not a picky eater and will normally eat whatever I put in front of her.
I did the same with both the boys, no arguments no trying to persuade anyone they like anything or the must take bites, the food is there, they can eat if they want it, no battles needed. I don't make alternative meals for anyone. Theres always something that they like included, even if it's just the mashed potatoes or something.
I'm not a short order cook, I do one meal at dinner.

And I'm sure that works for some kids. For my dd she would be hungry and melt down from low blood sugar and make everyone's life miserable.

Also, if *I* don't like something for dinner or my dh doesn't like it, we can always get something else. Why should my kids not have the same right?

-Angela


----------



## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *reece19* 
My kids are older now (11 and 10), but we have the same rules now as when they were little. If they are hungry after dinner - whether or not they ate dinner - they can eat anything they can make and clean up themselves.

I think we started that practice somewhere between age 2 and 3, and they were probably closer to 4 or 5 before they could snack without any help from me.

We had snacks and dishes on a low shelf just for them to use, and they could get in the pantry and the fridge. At that age, I think they usually had fruit (mainly banana), a fruit cup, bread, crackers, sliced cheese, etc. They could bring a fruit cup to me to open or something, but I didn't do any prep work other than that - and they had to put the trash away.

There were always some exceptions though. For example, if we tried something new for dinner, and they *did* try it but didn't like it, I would make a sandwich or bowl of soup for them to eat.

This is about how we approach it. We do model eating new things and a wide variety of food, and we gently correct anything like "yucky" as not a kind or respectful thing to say.


----------



## Sage_SS (Jun 1, 2007)

When we make a meal, we make the meal. If our kids choose not to eat, then they are making that choice. Not us. If its dinner and they say they are starving before they go to bed, we'll either make them a meal replacement drink, just so they get the vitamins and proteins or they can have A piece of fruit. Cereal is not an option, neither are sandwiches. We prepared the meal, they chose not to eat.


----------



## Azuralea (Jan 29, 2007)

Everybody in my family has the option of not eating dinner (or breakfast, or lunch). If they don't eat dinner/breakfast/lunch, they always can have bread, cheese, raw fruits, or raw veggies. We all follow the same rule.


----------



## mustangtbn (Jun 23, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MCR* 
I must be the meanest mom ever then.
If Dd doesn't eat her dinner, I put it up on the counter for her, if she asks for food cause she's hungry I give it back to her. She's 3.5 years. She's only done it a few times, she's not a picky eater and will normally eat whatever I put in front of her.
I did the same with both the boys, no arguments no trying to persuade anyone they like anything or the must take bites, the food is there, they can eat if they want it, no battles needed. I don't make alternative meals for anyone. Theres always something that they like included, even if it's just the mashed potatoes or something.
I'm not a short order cook, I do one meal at dinner.

That's basically what we do with DD, 21 months. We used to do the "other healthy choices" thing, but that quickly devolved into her subsisting on cheerios and bananas - healthy enough foods, but not enough variety. We've found that while she may not be in the mood for the food for whatever reason during dinner (or breakfast, or lunch) time, she may be perfectly happy to eat it later, so I don't think it's a "mean" thing necessarily. Also, sometimes she just needs to see the same food a few times before she'll eat it, especially if it's new.

DH is incredibly picky (really, it's extreme, he only ate about 10 different foods when I met him), so we are trying very hard to avoid this with our children. His father was a picky eater himself, and his mom did the short-order cook thing (and still does, for DH's even pickier 25-year-old brother that still lives at home). So, aside from not wanting to cook separate meals, I also don't want to do it because I'm concerned about long term effects. Of course, DH and I are both modeling eating every food put on the table (DH acts like he likes it in front of DD, whether he really does or not), and we hope that over time, that will do a lot to help.


----------



## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

If it happens a lot, is there something you can work into your routine that will stop him going hungry, but not be seen as giving in?

As part of our bedtime routine my daughter has a big glass of cow's milk while she's read a story. It fills her up if I misjudged dinner, and if she's full from dinner she doesn't drink much of it. But there's no bargaining involved and it's not a reward.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
And I'm sure that works for some kids. For my dd she would be hungry and melt down from low blood sugar and make everyone's life miserable.

Also, if *I* don't like something for dinner or my dh doesn't like it, we can always get something else. Why should my kids not have the same right?

-Angela

That's why she said

Quote:

Theres always something that they like included, even if it's just the mashed potatoes or something.


----------



## AllisonR (May 5, 2006)

I with MCR, or maybe I am the wicked witch of the north.







DS and DD can eat dinner, or not. That's it. I make sure that we have 3 or 4 items at dinner, and they like *at least* 1 or 2 of the items. I don't make myself eat things I don't like; I don't make them eat it either. There are choices. They can have as much, or as little, as they want. If they chose not to eat, and are hungry at bedtime (1 hour later), then they can eat the leftovers. Or not.


----------



## ProtoLawyer (Apr 16, 2007)

My stepdaughter went to bed hungry the other night. Why?

She refused dinner because it wasn't McDonalds. She got it in her head that she really, really wanted McDonalds, and nothing else would do. (We don't do McDonalds, period.) This also meant she refused to get anything else for herself (which is the normal remedy for a refusal to eat a prepared dinner), refused the rice that was served...

She refused a bedtime snack because it wasn't a banana. We had run out of bananas earlier that day (she ate the last one), and no, we weren't going to run out to the store after her bedtime to get her one when there were tons of other reasonable options. (I get that a banana and McDonalds are two different things, but if we don't have bananas, we don't have bananas, and unless it's medicine or something, nobody gets a special trip to the store.)

This meant she spent several minutes rolling around her bed, going "hungry...so very hungry..." and clutching her stomach dramatically. But she was refusing to eat simply to be contrary (or to see just how much she could get away with before we give in), and she was making the choice to go to bed hungry.


----------



## Rivka5 (Jul 13, 2005)

My 3.25-year-old can have bread and butter or a slice of deli meat or cheese if she doesn't want her dinner, and she can have all the milk she wants.

I know that kids this age often need many, many presentations of a food before they're willing to eat it. So I don't want to get into the habit of separate dinners for her - I want to keep offering the foods we eat so that they at least remain food possibilities in her mind. But I won't let her go hungry either.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
If it happens a lot, is there something you can work into your routine that will stop him going hungry, but not be seen as giving in?

As part of our bedtime routine my daughter has a big glass of cow's milk while she's read a story. It fills her up if I misjudged dinner, and if she's full from dinner she doesn't drink much of it. But there's no bargaining involved and it's not a reward.

That's why she said

And if my dd just eats one thing like that (especially if it's not high in protein) she's going to be a bear later. It's not a balanced meal.

-Angela


----------



## emmasmommy (Feb 26, 2004)

DD1 (just turned 6 today!) is very picky!! If she doesn't eat supper, she does get something for a snack after. A bedtime snack is part of our nighttime routine regardless of how much they ate for supper, so dd would get something to eat. Our evening snacks are usually yogurt, fruit, cheese and crackers or similar. Every once in a while dd wants toast or a sandwich.

I do admit to being somewhat of a short order cook, but only to a point. I try to make our meals include something she likes - even if it's only rice, but if we are eating something where I know she won't touch any of it, then I will cook some pasta.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ProtoLawyer* 
My stepdaughter went to bed hungry the other night. Why?

She refused dinner because it wasn't McDonalds. She got it in her head that she really, really wanted McDonalds, and nothing else would do. (We don't do McDonalds, period.) This also meant she refused to get anything else for herself (which is the normal remedy for a refusal to eat a prepared dinner), refused the rice that was served...

She refused a bedtime snack because it wasn't a banana. We had run out of bananas earlier that day (she ate the last one), and no, we weren't going to run out to the store after her bedtime to get her one when there were tons of other reasonable options. (I get that a banana and McDonalds are two different things, but if we don't have bananas, we don't have bananas, and unless it's medicine or something, nobody gets a special trip to the store.)

This meant she spent several minutes rolling around her bed, going "hungry...so very hungry..." and clutching her stomach dramatically. But she was refusing to eat simply to be contrary (or to see just how much she could get away with before we give in), and she was making the choice to go to bed hungry.









Yeah, and in that case I would have let dd go to bed "hungry" too.









-Angela


----------



## stayinghome (Jul 4, 2002)

My girls are older, but here's what we do. If they don't like what i make, they can make themselves something simple like a bagel or cereal or an egg. They usually have an evening snack of cheese or fruit or something else healthy and easy.


----------



## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MCR* 
I must be the meanest mom ever then.
If Dd doesn't eat her dinner, I put it up on the counter for her, if she asks for food cause she's hungry I give it back to her. She's 3.5 years. She's only done it a few times, she's not a picky eater and will normally eat whatever I put in front of her.
I did the same with both the boys, no arguments no trying to persuade anyone they like anything or the must take bites, the food is there, they can eat if they want it, no battles needed. I don't make alternative meals for anyone. Theres always something that they like included, even if it's just the mashed potatoes or something.
I'm not a short order cook, I do one meal at dinner.

This is what I would do.

I'm not a short order cook - and I don't cater to picky kids or husbands... Food is food - just because it's not your favorite doesn't make it inedible.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
And I'm sure that works for some kids. For my dd she would be hungry and melt down from low blood sugar and make everyone's life miserable.

Also, if *I* don't like something for dinner or my dh doesn't like it, we can always get something else. Why should my kids not have the same right?

-Angela

In my house - DH and I eat what's for supper.

I CAN'T imagine how offended I would be if DH looked at what's for supper and made himself something else. THAT'S SOOOOO RUDE!!!!

Ugggggg - that whole idea of that puts a bad taste in my mouth. What a HORRIBLE way to model food to your kids. What a waste! I don't want my child to learn that she can turn down perfectly good food just because she'd rather have something else.


----------



## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

I have no problem offering one simple alternative.
Same with being hungry before bedtime; it is no hardship to help him open a yogurt container.

In general, food is not something I will battle about. I hope not ever. Until he wants to go to McD's. Then we'll have some troubles.


----------



## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 

I'm not a short order cook - and I don't cater to picky kids or husbands... Food is food - just because it's not your favorite doesn't make it inedible.

In my house - DH and I eat what's for supper.

I CAN'T imagine how offended I would be if DH looked at what's for supper and made himself something else. THAT'S SOOOOO RUDE!!!!

Ugggggg - that whole idea of that puts a bad taste in my mouth. What a HORRIBLE way to model food to your kids. What a waste! I don't want my child to learn that she can turn down perfectly good food just because she'd rather have something else.


I guess it really depends on how things run in your household.

Dh and I don't have the exact same tastes and the same eating schedule. If he doesn't wish to eat my tofu dish, I take absolutely no offense whatsoever. I would never consider it rude if he passed it up. I've done the same for his meals because he simply chooses to eat more meat than I am comfortable with.

We often eat such simple meals that no one is slaving over a hot stove for hours. If I am planning on cooking a more elaborate meal, then I usually make sure it's something ds will like, or if it 's too spicy I will have something simpler for him.

And it's not wasteful here -- we eat leftovers.


----------



## lab (Jun 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MCR* 
I must be the meanest mom ever then.
If Dd doesn't eat her dinner, I put it up on the counter for her, if she asks for food cause she's hungry I give it back to her. She's 3.5 years. She's only done it a few times, she's not a picky eater and will normally eat whatever I put in front of her.
I did the same with both the boys, no arguments no trying to persuade anyone they like anything or the must take bites, the food is there, they can eat if they want it, no battles needed. I don't make alternative meals for anyone. Theres always something that they like included, even if it's just the mashed potatoes or something.
I'm not a short order cook, I do one meal at dinner.

Oh gosh - I don't think you're mean AT. ALL.

This is exactly what do/did.

Now my kids are 11, 12 and 14 and they literally will eat anything. I have wonderful healthy eaters who prefer fruit to candy. Even at 14.

Which really sucks when I think about it. Have you ever seen a 14 year old boy polish off strawberries? Sheesh







He's expensive!


----------



## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hoopin' Mama* 
I guess it really depends on how things run in your household.

Dh and I don't have the exact same tastes and the same eating schedule. If he doesn't wish to eat my tofu dish, I take absolutely no offense whatsoever. I would never consider it rude if he passed it up. I've done the same for his meals because he simply chooses to eat more meat than I am comfortable with.

We often eat such simple meals that no one is slaving over a hot stove for hours. If I am planning on cooking a more elaborate meal, then I usually make sure it's something ds will like, or if it 's too spicy I will have something simpler for him.

And it's not wasteful here -- we eat leftovers.

For us supper is a family meal. We make something from scratch - then we sit down and eat.

I eat what he makes, and he eats what I make - that's common courtesy. I cannot believe that so many people think it's OK to make new food.

I cannot imagine not eating what was made for supper. That's just plain ridiculous.

We respect the other person when we cook - so I don't use mushrooms and he doesn't use ground beef. If DD has a like/dislike we'll respect that.

Maybe money's a factor. We don't have the money to make more than one thing - even if we used the leftovers. Well - I guess we could use them for supper the next night, but neither of us like to eat the same thing 2 suppers in a row. But our lunches tend to cost alot less than suppers. So - there's no way we could afford to make 2 suppers and then take leftovers for lunch. That would double our supper budget - and drastically increase our food budget.


----------



## limette (Feb 25, 2008)

dd1 is 2.5 and she rarely eats supper at supper time. I always give her a plate of food and if she doesn't eat it, I either leave it on the table for her to go back to or it goes in the fridge until she's hungry and requesting food.

if she doesn't like what we are having i have no problem providing her with something else; yogurt, fruit, raw vegs, basically something that requires no prep.


----------



## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

I should probably add - that we will start being strict about supper when our kids are old enough to have some level of self control.

So probably 4 or 5 - then they will participate in supper with us.

Before that - I will be much more lenient.

But - I have no desire to make multiple meals. I will not make a hot snack before bed just because my child refused to eat supper. It isn't a power struggle - that's just the way it is. Just like we don't have juice in the house, or we don't play with knives.


----------



## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
For us supper is a family meal. We make something from scratch - then we sit down and eat.

I eat what he makes, and he eats what I make - that's common courtesy. I cannot believe that so many people think it's OK to make new food.

I cannot imagine not eating what was made for supper. That's just plain ridiculous.

We respect the other person when we cook - so I don't use mushrooms and he doesn't use ground beef. If DD has a like/dislike we'll respect that.

Maybe money's a factor. We don't have the money to make more than one thing - even if we used the leftovers. Well - I guess we could use them for supper the next night, but neither of us like to eat the same thing 2 suppers in a row. But our lunches tend to cost alot less than suppers. So - there's no way we could afford to make 2 suppers and then take leftovers for lunch. That would double our supper budget - and drastically increase our food budget.

Well, I am also coming from a different perspective - dh is at work during dinner time. Dh has been working during dinnertime since the day I met him, so we fell into our own fend for ourselves routine long ago. It may sound strange to some, but really it works out fine in our home. We tend to make big deals of breakfasts and dinners on the weekend.

We eat from scratch also, but it's something simple like stir-fry or eggplant with tomatoes and mozzerella under the broiler.

Also, I don't make "new" food or 2 suppers. I tell ds he can help himself to a container of yogurt or a bowl of cereal.


----------



## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
I should probably add - that we will start being strict about supper when our kids are old enough to have some level of self control.

So probably 4 or 5 - then they will participate in supper with us.

Before that - I will be much more lenient.

But - I have no desire to make multiple meals. I will not make a hot snack before bed just because my child refused to eat supper. It isn't a power struggle - that's just the way it is. Just like we don't have juice in the house, or we don't play with knives.


Oh, you have a 1.5 yo. Ds is 3.5. I imagine when he is a bit older dinners will look a little different for us.
I have noticed the more participation ds has with meal prep, the more psyched he is to eat it.


----------



## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hoopin' Mama* 
Well, I am also coming from a different perspective - dh is at work during dinner time. Dh has been working during dinnertime since the day I met him, so we fell into our own fend for ourselves routine long ago. It may sound strange to some, but really it works out fine in our home. We tend to make big deals of breakfasts and dinners on the weekend.

We eat from scratch also, but it's something simple like stir-fry or eggplant with tomatoes and mozzerella under the broiler.

Also, I don't make "new" food or 2 suppers. I tell ds he can help himself to a container of yogurt or a bowl of cereal.

That's cool if that works for you. It is a different situation than, let's say, the DH coming home from work - looking at what's on the stove, and deciding to eat pizza pops... To me, that's really rude.

We're less picky about weekends and breakfast - we fend for ourselves. But supper is the meal we eat together.

But - I'm not ok with the idea of a kid eating yogurt for supper. To me, yogurt is a junky treat. It's not a supper substitute.

But also - we're on a tight budget, and I don't see that ending any time soon. If I buy yogurt - it's planned when we'll use it. I buy some to take to work with me for a snack. I buy some for DD as a treat kind of snack for days when DH works from home to watch her. It wouldn't be OK for her to want to have it all the time.

We basically don't eat packaged stuff like that. We can't afford it.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hoopin' Mama* 
Dh and I don't have the exact same tastes and the same eating schedule. If he doesn't wish to eat my tofu dish, I take absolutely no offense whatsoever. I would never consider it rude if he passed it up. I've done the same for his meals because he simply chooses to eat more meat than I am comfortable with.

We often eat such simple meals that no one is slaving over a hot stove for hours. If I am planning on cooking a more elaborate meal, then I usually make sure it's something ds will like, or if it 's too spicy I will have something simpler for him.

And it's not wasteful here -- we eat leftovers.









This.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
For us supper is a family meal. We make something from scratch - then we sit down and eat.

I eat what he makes, and he eats what I make - that's common courtesy. I cannot believe that so many people think it's OK to make new food.

I cannot imagine not eating what was made for supper. That's just plain ridiculous.

We respect the other person when we cook - so I don't use mushrooms and he doesn't use ground beef. If DD has a like/dislike we'll respect that.

dd has quite a list of things that she won't eat. or rather a short list of things she will.







It's just how things are now with this particular child.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
But - I have no desire to make multiple meals. I will not make a hot snack before bed just because my child refused to eat supper. It isn't a power struggle - that's just the way it is. Just like we don't have juice in the house, or we don't play with knives.

That's why I said simple. I don't cook separate meals, but it's no big deal to open a yogurt or spread cream cheese on a bagel.

-Angela


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
That's cool if that works for you. It is a different situation than, let's say, the DH coming home from work - looking at what's on the stove, and deciding to eat pizza pops... To me, that's really rude.

We're less picky about weekends and breakfast - we fend for ourselves. But supper is the meal we eat together.

But - I'm not ok with the idea of a kid eating yogurt for supper. To me, yogurt is a junky treat. It's not a supper substitute.

But also - we're on a tight budget, and I don't see that ending any time soon. If I buy yogurt - it's planned when we'll use it. I buy some to take to work with me for a snack. I buy some for DD as a treat kind of snack for days when DH works from home to watch her. It wouldn't be OK for her to want to have it all the time.

We basically don't eat packaged stuff like that. We can't afford it.

It's more the idea that dh likes things I don't like- he may make himself some dinner that I don't like. He'd be happy to share, but knows I don't like it.

Depends on what kind of yogurt you get







trix yogurt- sure.

Whole milk, plain yogurt... not so junky.

And if the other choice is going to bed hungry then it's a fabulous choice. (because let me tell you, rules, pressure, same food served again, NONE of that will make my dd eat something she doesn't want to)

-Angela


----------



## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
That's why I said simple. I don't cook separate meals, but it's no big deal to open a yogurt or spread cream cheese on a bagel.

-Angela

I guess - I don't see us keeping those sorts of things in the house...

We meal plan. We don't have the money to have random 'substitutes' laying around. If we have bagels and cream cheese - there for something in particular. Same thing with yogurt.

When we plan our meals - we make sure that DH and I both like what's on the menu and we make sure that there is enough that DD will eat. She's really really picky - and had a FTT diagnosis on her record - so we're concerned about making sure she get's enough to eat.


----------



## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
It's more the idea that dh likes things I don't like- he may make himself some dinner that I don't like. He'd be happy to share, but knows I don't like it.

My DH used to be picky. But early in our relationship we sorted that out.

I guess I'm not OK with people not eating perfectly good food. I don't care if it's something I don't particularily like - it won't hurt me to eat it.

Again - I might feel differently if I had money to burn and was able to buy lots of extra food.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
I guess - I don't see us keeping those sorts of things in the house...

We meal plan. We don't have the money to have random 'substitutes' laying around. If we have bagels and cream cheese - there for something in particular. Same thing with yogurt.

When we plan our meals - we make sure that DH and I both like what's on the menu and we make sure that there is enough that DD will eat. She's really really picky - and had a FTT diagnosis on her record - so we're concerned about making sure she get's enough to eat.

Yeah... wait until she's older. I thought dd would grow out of more of her pickiness... not so much. She'll be 4 in august.

I keep "snack" foods in the house that are easy for her and nutritious. Bagels, cream cheese, hard boiled eggs, yogurt etc.

Those all also work for a substitute dinner or lunch if needed.

-Angela


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
My DH used to be picky. But early in our relationship we sorted that out.

I guess I'm not OK with people not eating perfectly good food. I don't care if it's something I don't particularily like - it won't hurt me to eat it.

Again - I might feel differently if I had money to burn and was able to buy lots of extra food.

Some people really have issues with some foods. My food "dislikes" are all texture related. I truly can not eat most sausage. Makes me gag.

If dd has similar issues, why would I not honor them?

It has nothing to do with money to burn. You don't have to WASTE anything. Dh simply doesn't make more sausage than HE wants.

Leftovers get eaten for lunch or dinner









-Angela


----------



## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Some people really have issues with some foods. My food "dislikes" are all texture related. I truly can not eat most sausage. Makes me gag.

If dd has similar issues, why would I not honor them?

It has nothing to do with money to burn. You don't have to WASTE anything. Dh simply doesn't make more sausage than HE wants.

Leftovers get eaten for lunch or dinner









-Angela

I would honor them. But I would do that by not cooking them - not by making her a special meal!

DH doesn't like mushrooms - so I don't cook them.

I HATE cooked veggies - like steamed/fried. I can handle lightly cooked ones in stirfrys - but that's it. So we work with that. We eat alot of raw veggies and stuff shredded into sauces.

I would so the same for DD. She doesn't like purees - so we don't plan things that are pureed. If we have a blended soup - we make sure to add potato bits or something to give it texture for her.


----------



## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
That's cool if that works for you. It is a different situation than, let's say, the DH coming home from work - looking at what's on the stove, and deciding to eat pizza pops... To me, that's really rude.
.


Yeah, that would be annoying.

It's more like: Hey, if you're hungry, I made eggplant curry.
If he chooses to have leftover stew instead, more eggplant for me the next day







:

One new thing I've tried is setting out dinner "family style" on the table and letting ds choose what he'd like, instead of making his plate and putting it in front of him. I am hoping having the choices in front of him may inspire him more to try new things. The downside is it creates more dishwashing.


----------



## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Also, it's not really a matter of having "money to burn". Anyone who knows me knows that I am cheap...uh, I mean thrifty. I buy basic produce and meats for ingredients, keep spices on hand, and keep things yummy and simple. I also tend to cook large pots of stews and soups and draw from them all week.

I think the presence of Trader Joes' in my town helps a lot. Healthy yogurts and dairy foods can be purchased there for cheap.


----------



## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hoopin' Mama* 
Also, it's not really a matter of having "money to burn". Anyone who knows me knows that I am cheap...uh, I mean thrifty. I buy basic produce and meats for ingredients, keep spices on hand, and keep things yummy and simple. I also tend to cook large pots of stews and soups and draw from them all week.

I think the presence of Trader Joes' in my town helps a lot. Healthy yogurts and dairy foods can be purchased there for cheap.

We're not good enough cooks to do that.

When we buy general ingredients instead of food planning - we end up wasting alot... So we plan our meals - and then we use everything. It works for us.


----------



## Ceinwen (Jul 1, 2004)

DP and I often eat different things for dinner. And it has nothing to do with money to burn, or cooking different foods and wasting.

Sometimes one of us inadvertently cooks something the other one isn't too fussy on. Or maybe we just don't feel like that particular food tonight, kwim?

At least twice a week, one of us isn't as hungry as the other. So someone has something 'bigger' and someone else has something snacky. Leftovers go in the fridge, so there's no waste.

DD is never, ever forced to eat anything she doesn't like and/or want to - ever. She can have eggs, yogurt, sandwich, cereal, soup, granola, fruit, cheese, crackers.

She's also a midway fussy eater, and it's important to me not to battle. But you should see the things she's tried all on her own; she definitely has a wide array of tastes.

Her tummy is smaller than mine, so she often has a snack before bed.

My parents were adamant when I was a child that eating was a very individual thing, and food should never become a battle ground.

I remain thankful for that.







:


----------



## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nursemummy* 
DP and I often eat different things for dinner. And it has nothing to do with money to burn, or cooking different foods and wasting.

Sometimes one of us inadvertently cooks something the other one isn't too fussy on. Or maybe we just don't feel like that particular food tonight, kwim?

At least twice a week, one of us isn't as hungry as the other. So someone has something 'bigger' and someone else has something snacky. Leftovers go in the fridge, so there's no waste.

Why not just eat a smaller amount of the supper? Why do people have to 'love' everything they eat. That idea of so foreign to me. I guess I grew up with being allowed to eat or not - that was my choice. But no one ever had something different.

And I'm really glad for that.

Quote:

DD is never, ever forced to eat anything she doesn't like and/or want to - ever. She can have eggs, yogurt, sandwich, cereal, soup, granola, fruit, cheese, crackers.
But, in order to do that - you need to have purchased all those extra things. You need to have eggs that aren't slated for a specific meal - which mean if they aren't eaten they could go to waste, you need to have extra yogurt. For sandwiches you need to have extra bread and extra stuff to put in them. Do you get what I'm saying. We don't buy those things. We can't buy things we don't know we'll eat.

Quote:

She's also a midway fussy eater, and it's important to me not to battle. But you should see the things she's tried all on her own; she definitely has a wide array of tastes.

Her tummy is smaller than mine, so she often has a snack before bed.

My parents were adamant when I was a child that eating was a very individual thing, and food should never become a battle ground.

I remain thankful for that.







:
I'm all for making snacks after kids have had supper. But that's fundamentally different from the original question which was what to do when a kid wants a snack rather than supper.

And - you can be strict with food without it being a power struggle. Just don't get involved with the struggle. Give kids choices - and let them make them. Just - in our case, the choices will NOT include making different food.


----------



## MCR (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Some people really have issues with some foods. My food "dislikes" are all texture related. I truly can not eat most sausage. Makes me gag.

If dd has similar issues, why would I not honor them?

It has nothing to do with money to burn. You don't have to WASTE anything. Dh simply doesn't make more sausage than HE wants.

Leftovers get eaten for lunch or dinner









-Angela

Oldest Ds has texture issues and has SID and OCD, but even he will eat parts of whats for dinner, always has. I just make sure to prepare things with a texture he can eat, when he's home. Last night he ate the potatoes and Pork and applesauce, didn't touch the green beans.
What I find funny, as they grow, they change so fast. Dd is 3.5years, she used to just eat everything on her plate, now she goes through jags of eating parts of the meal and wanting more of that part. One time it was broccoli, she ate a ton and nothing else. Last night she ate a huge pork chop (bigger than her Dads) and applesauce and a taste of green beans. She was done. She's done it before with other things, but it's never consistent, she fancied the steak one night and ate more than anyone else in the house.
Kids amaze me, she gets a balance of food if I leave her too it, some days are veg days some are meat days and every days seems to be a grain day.
Not a big milk drinker but loves cheese and yogurt.
I eat whatever I'm given if I eat with friends, so does Dh, it would be rude not too. Thats how I discovered I really do like brussles spouts







:


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
I would honor them. But I would do that by not cooking them - not by making her a special meal!

DH doesn't like mushrooms - so I don't cook them.

I HATE cooked veggies - like steamed/fried. I can handle lightly cooked ones in stirfrys - but that's it. So we work with that. We eat alot of raw veggies and stuff shredded into sauces.

I would so the same for DD. She doesn't like purees - so we don't plan things that are pureed. If we have a blended soup - we make sure to add potato bits or something to give it texture for her.

But sometimes dh LIKES to have those foods... why shouldn't he?

One very picky person could severely limit the diet for the whole family. Seems much easier to offer an alternative.

-Angela


----------



## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 

In my house - DH and I eat what's for supper.

I CAN'T imagine how offended I would be if DH looked at what's for supper and made himself something else. THAT'S SOOOOO RUDE!!!!












Dh and I do this to each other sometimes. We just have really different tastes. No big deal in our house. So, the kids can have something else, too, if they want. This just isn't a fight in our house. And as another poster said, leftovers go in the fridge or the freezer so we're not wasting it. (And the dog is more than happy to help out on the rare occasions we do waste something!)


----------



## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
But sometimes dh LIKES to have those foods... why shouldn't he?

One very picky person could severely limit the diet for the whole family. Seems much easier to offer an alternative.

-Angela

It's called 'comprimise'...

I don't know - it's part of being a 'family'...

Everyone makes sacrifices. Do I like Mac and Cheese? Not really - but my babysitting kids asked for it as a special treat today (they get something like that every couple of weeks). So I made it. Did they like the pasta and sauce I made last week? No - but they ate some anyway.

And they aren't even family...

In our family we all do things we don't necessarily want to do. There are things that DH loves and I don't really care for on our menu - and stuff I love and DH could do without.

But - it won't hurt us to eat things we don't love.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
But, in order to do that - you need to have purchased all those extra things. You need to have eggs that aren't slated for a specific meal - which mean if they aren't eaten they could go to waste, you need to have extra yogurt. For sandwiches you need to have extra bread and extra stuff to put in them. Do you get what I'm saying. We don't buy those things. We can't buy things we don't know we'll eat.

Beyond just two people in a house (even that is hard for me to fathom...) I can't imagine how this works for a family. Is every single snack structured with no choice? What if someone is hungry and needs an extra meal one day?

That is not a way I could live.

-Angela


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
And - you can be strict with food without it being a power struggle. Just don't get involved with the struggle. Give kids choices - and let them make them. Just - in our case, the choices will NOT include making different food.

In the case of my child that results in a hungry child who is miserable and miserable to be around. No one wins. You do not win her over. She does not get less picky. And she does not get the nutrition she needs.

-Angela


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
It's called 'comprimise'...

I don't know - it's part of being a 'family'...

Everyone makes sacrifices. Do I like Mac and Cheese? Not really - but my babysitting kids asked for it as a special treat today (they get something like that every couple of weeks). So I made it. Did they like the pasta and sauce I made last week? No - but they ate some anyway.

And they aren't even family...

In our family we all do things we don't necessarily want to do. There are things that DH loves and I don't really care for on our menu - and stuff I love and DH could do without.

But - it won't hurt us to eat things we don't love.

Hurt us? Maybe not. (maybe so in cases of kids with severe aversions or intolerances...) But I'm not going to eat sausage and I'm not going to demand that dh never has it in the house









It's called compromise.

It's part of being a family.










-Angela


----------



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I don't think this has happened very often because my daughter is luckily not picky and will eat about anything.

BUT I would not make her go hungry, nor would I force her to eat something. If she didn't eat dinner for whatever reason, and was hungry later, she could have the leftovers from the fridge, or she could have some other healthy food we have on hand. It isn't wasteful to have snack food and lunch food available in the house, and leftovers always seem to get eaten around here, and I don't see how using one or two slices of bread and a bit of peanut butter (for example) is going to throw a household budget off. Any household budget.


----------



## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Beyond just two people in a house (even that is hard for me to fathom...) I can't imagine how this works for a family. Is every single snack structured with no choice? What if someone is hungry and needs an extra meal one day?

That is not a way I could live.

-Angela


Yeah... Kessed I don't want to say anything works or doesn't work one way or other. Tone is so important, and I think kids generally cope okay with true reality.

But I grew up in a house that worked this way some years (and radically different in other years). I remember being embarassed when my friend asked for more macaroni and cheese and could not have any because my mother always made casseroles for two nights, drew a line down the middle, and you could not go past it... and all my friend saw was that there was more food. I remember each member of the family having snacks parcelled out and labelled. I remember the rules about how many eggs were okay.

Every bite was controlled. It was horrible. I never felt like the food in the house was mine. Ever.

As I became a teen I just started buying crap food myself, food that made me overweight and ill, but at least it was mine and plentiful. I also have huge scarcity issues. As a young adult I had a pantry worthy of feeding the neighbours in a time of crisis, but it was never enough and I had cans stored everywhere.

The thing is though in our case the "need" was pretty manufactured. It had to do with priorities like taking a big family vacation ($$ one) over daily food. And it was in a family context that was dysfunctional in other ways. But the control issues remain with my psyche still. If you can afford the loaf of bread and jar of peanut butter I guess I would go for it, myself. (And do.)


----------



## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

I've been thinking about this more...

What it comes down to for me is this: I don't think that "I don't like it" is a valid reason to turn down food on a daily basis. I think it's valid to turn down 1 or 2 things - like mushrooms or fish. But I'm not willing to cater to a kid who "doesn't like" stuff. You're not going to 'like' everything in life - and that's just fine. I certainly don't like everything I eat. My MIL regularly puts icky nuts in her yummy brownies - but I don't turn those down even though I detest nuts.

I think that there is a second category for 'picky' - and that's food that causes someone to have a reaction of some sort. Eating bits of meat fat makes me vomit. It's something that I can only control in extreme situations (like being a houseguest of a VERY old relative in Norway and she serves fatty mutton chops... )

I would not serve/expect my child to eat something that made her sick/gag/vomit... If for some strange reason I did make something that caused her to react that way - I would be OK with her having something else. But I would try hard to not cook that kind of thing often.

If my child had numerous food aversions - then I would plan that into our meals. It wouldn't be that she looked at what we were having and got to say "yuck - I don't like this" and I made her something else. I would make the something else preemptively.

As for sandwiches - I didn't think of peanut butter - because we don't buy it on principle. Also - none of us like it. Jam isn't very 'nutritious' being straight sugar (fruit being sugar and water). And lunch meat is what we put on our sandwiches for work - and that stuff gets expensive. We buy the number of slices we will need for that week... We don't buy extra - because it might go to waste.

We've had HUGE issues with wasting food. With just me, DH and DD - we can't buy numerous 'extra' snack foods. We choose what we want - this week we bought 2 packs of pita bread and I"ve been making dips - and that's what we stick to. We just don't have the money to buy things that might go to waste.


----------



## MtBikeLover (Jun 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I never deny a hungry child. If they don't want dinner at dinner- then they can have another (simple) option- yogurt, etc.

If they didn't eat dinner and are hungry later- then they get food then.

Ditto with us too.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
What it comes down to for me is this: I don't think that "I don't like it" is a valid reason to turn down food on a daily basis. I think it's valid to turn down 1 or 2 things - like mushrooms or fish. But I'm not willing to cater to a kid who "doesn't like" stuff. You're not going to 'like' everything in life - and that's just fine. I certainly don't like everything I eat. My MIL regularly puts icky nuts in her yummy brownies - but I don't turn those down even though I detest nuts.

Answering in parts.

Of course it's a valid reason. If it's valid to turn down 1 or 2 things, why not 6 or 7?

And I really have a problem with the idea that those of us saying this are "catering" to anything.

My dd WILL NOT EAT many things. How would I *not* cater to her? As I see it, my choices are 1. Attempt to MAKE her eat the food or 2. allow her to be hungry and not get enough food (see notes above about low blood sugar making everyone miserable)

What would you suggest?

-Angela


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
We've had HUGE issues with wasting food. With just me, DH and DD - we can't buy numerous 'extra' snack foods. We choose what we want - this week we bought 2 packs of pita bread and I"ve been making dips - and that's what we stick to. We just don't have the money to buy things that might go to waste.

IME this becomes a whole different ballgame when you've got kids eating in the picture.

-Angela


----------



## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
I certainly don't like everything I eat.

Again just musing off your very thoughtful posts.

I do only eat food I like. Fortunately I love rice and lentils.







And most food actually. But I mention the rice and lentils and other bean and grain combinations because that is how we saved for our first house.

A big part of my journey to a better relationship with food is not to eat things I don't like. To stop overcooking the vegetables, under-seasoning the salads, etc.

When I was eating junk food it was not so much because of the taste but out of habit, fear, boredom, etc. After I weaned off those things I realized they don't really taste that great compared to really good real food. It was just that mostly I was treating the home cooking as "downmarket."

Part of righting that relationship to food for me has honestly been to not choke things down. Eating mindlessly things I didn't really like did not serve me in particular very well. Oddly enough once I committed I found that I could really give myself the experience of seeing if I could find a way to eat sardines that I could stomach. (I didn't. But okra, yes!)

And I don't mean fancy. Just prepared with care to my taste.

Of course like anyone I run into times I need to - occasionally at people's houses or weddings or the like. I'll try most things once and I can choke back the green bean casserole with the canned soup on it like most people and even smile at the aspic.

But in my home, no way. I'll try new recipes but if we don't like them (other than my completely unpredictable at this age toddler, who eats a wide range but on a sporadic basis) I don't keep them. Life's too short.


----------



## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Beyond just two people in a house (even that is hard for me to fathom...) I can't imagine how this works for a family. Is every single snack structured with no choice? What if someone is hungry and needs an extra meal one day?

That is not a way I could live.

-Angela

Actually there's lots of choice. I babysit 3 kids and they are perfectly happy and well fed.

We don't structure snacks in that we buy X for Monday morning and Y for Thursday afternoon... That would be ridiculous.

But planning that there will be roughly a morning and afternoon snack for all the kids. Then there will be an evening and bedtime snack for DD. I need 2 snacks per day for the days I work (in an office ) and DH needs snacks for work too.

So we buy food based on the number of kid/adult snacks we'll need. In general - there is a 'fruit/veggie' snack every day for each of us. I add a 'dip' for the kids - like sunbutter or hummus. And there's a cracker and protein snack like crackers and cheese or salami or something (homemade hummos and pitas was this week). We buy yogurt (Minigos) for DD's evening/bedtime snacks, and yogurt for 1 snack for me at work.

We just plan out, before we go to the store, what we will buy to have the right amount of food for the week. Otherwise we buy WAY too much food and waste it. Maybe one day we'll figure out how to do it the other way - but right now - we're clueless when it come to shopping without a plan.

Let's put it this way - there's always a small amount left over from each snack - so the kids always get enough.

Let me also say - I would NEVER deny food to a hungry person. EVER! I'm just not willing to have unlimited choices all the time. I'm also not willing to sub in unhealthy treat food - like yogurt - for real healthy food that we make for supper.


----------



## Ziggysmama (Dec 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Beyond just two people in a house (even that is hard for me to fathom...) I can't imagine how this works for a family. Is every single snack structured with no choice? What if someone is hungry and needs an extra meal one day?

That is not a way I could live.

-Angela

Its a hard way to live but the reality for many families. My mother raised me and my brother and sister on welfare. She had only a small amount of money each week to feed us with. Every meal was planned down to the T. Usually with one dinner being streched over into the next days lunch and evening meal too.
She bought enough food that we had dinner every night, a sandwich and fruit to take with us to school and a breakfast option if we chose to eat breakfast. Usually Oatmeal or cornflakes or toast.
We never had "snacks"... No yogurt, no bagels, nothing out of the bare nessicities. IF we were hungry when we came home from school we could have a piece of two of bread and a glass of milk or a piece of fruit sometimes.. But really, that was pretty much the options available to us. If you looked in our cupboards you would see food that could only be made into a dinners.
I don't ever recall turning down a meal my mother made for us as I realised to sacrifice and difficulty in getting the food in the first place.

That being said, I am over the moon with joy that in my present situation I have the resources to offer my child different food options when he NEEDS them.


----------



## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ziggysmama* 
Its a hard way to live but the reality for many families. My mother raised me and my brother and sister on welfare. She had only a small amount of money each week to feed us with. Every meal was planned down to the T. Usually with one dinner being streched over into the next days lunch and evening meal too.
She bought enough food that we had dinner every night, a sandwich and fruit to take with us to school and a breakfast option if we chose to eat breakfast. Usually Oatmeal or cornflakes or toast.
We never had "snacks"... No yogurt, no bagels, nothing out of the bare nessicities. IF we were hungry when we came home from school we could have a piece of two of bread and a glass of milk or a piece of fruit sometimes.. But really, that was pretty much the options available to us. If you looked in our cupboards you would see food that could only be made into a dinners.
I don't ever recall turning down a meal my mother made for us as I realised to sacrifice and difficulty in getting the food in the first place.

That being said, I am over the moon with joy that in my present situation I have the resources to offer my child different food options when he NEEDS them.

I'm able to offer more options than your mom - but that's because we don't want to get into a bad situation.

We stopped our previous spending habits so that we wouldn't run out of money. We were close. One month we somehow spent over $1000 on food for 2.5 people...







So - now we budget and plan. We are able to eat for around $400/month now - and that's with buying our fresh produce at the farmer's market. But there was one month when we needed (and succeeded) to feed us for just under $200. We ate ALOT of chili and lentil soup made from dried bulk produce.


----------



## trini (Sep 20, 2005)

We have the "I'm hungry" issue all. the. time. And I put healthy food in front of him and he doesn't eat it. He is not a picky eater. By that I mean he has eaten a wide variety of food in the past.

Our issue happens around bedtime. I happily offer him healthy alternatives to dinner. He doesn't want that, either. Then it's bedtime and he yells, "But I'm still hungry!"

I offer and I offer and I offer healthy food. When it comes down to the wire and it's bedtime, he goes to bed hungry because I'm starting to think it's more of a bedtime issue than a food issue.

I'm at my wit's end with the whole situation.


----------



## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
I'm also not willing to sub in unhealthy treat food - like yogurt - for real healthy food that we make for supper.

I'm confused by this concept of yogurt as an unhealthy treat. Why do you think this?

This prompted me to look at the yogurt I buy and I am seeing almost all good things except the oh-so-vague "natural flavors". Mine has a good dose of potassium, protein, calcium, and four active cultures.

What am I missing here?

ETA: I looked up the ingredients to Minigos because I didn't know what it was. No, it's probably not the healthiest yogurt on the market.


----------



## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hoopin' Mama* 
I'm confused by this concept of yogurt as an unhealthy treat. Why do you think this?

This prompted me to look at the yogurt I buy and I am seeing almost all good things except the oh-so-vague "natural flavors". Mine has a good dose of potassium, protein, calcium, and four active cultures.

What am I missing here?

It's got ALOT of sugar in it. In general our suppers aren't sweet. At least the minigos (which we use now because DD doesn't eat much and we want to max the calories - and they are more dense than other yogurts) don't have much else...

In the nutritional info - most things are 1 or 2%... 3% lipids, 3 (out of 60) grams of protein... That's almost nothing. My yogurt isn't much better.

There's basically nothing in it beyond fat and sugar.


----------



## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
Again just musing off your very thoughtful posts.

I do only eat food I like. Fortunately I love rice and lentils.







And most food actually. But I mention the rice and lentils and other bean and grain combinations because that is how we saved for our first house.

A big part of my journey to a better relationship with food is not to eat things I don't like. To stop overcooking the vegetables, under-seasoning the salads, etc.

When I was eating junk food it was not so much because of the taste but out of habit, fear, boredom, etc. After I weaned off those things I realized they don't really taste that great compared to really good real food. It was just that mostly I was treating the home cooking as "downmarket."

Part of righting that relationship to food for me has honestly been to not choke things down. Eating mindlessly things I didn't really like did not serve me in particular very well. Oddly enough once I committed I found that I could really give myself the experience of seeing if I could find a way to eat sardines that I could stomach. (I didn't. But okra, yes!)

And I don't mean fancy. Just prepared with care to my taste.

Of course like anyone I run into times I need to - occasionally at people's houses or weddings or the like. I'll try most things once and I can choke back the green bean casserole with the canned soup on it like most people and even smile at the aspic.

But in my home, no way. I'll try new recipes but if we don't like them (other than my completely unpredictable at this age toddler, who eats a wide range but on a sporadic basis) I don't keep them. Life's too short.

Well said.

I don't eat things that I don't like in my home. I don't expect my family to either. I do try to insist that ds take one bite and decide from there.

I don't waste food and I'm not burning money. I just have a different view of food I guess. I don't have our day's nutritional value tied up solely in dinnertime.


----------



## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hoopin' Mama* 
I don't have our day's nutritional value tied up solely in dinnertime.

I don't either. But, there isn't alot of 'wiggle' room for alternatives when a kid doesn't like what's being served.


----------



## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
But, in order to do that - you need to have purchased all those extra things. You need to have eggs that aren't slated for a specific meal - which mean if they aren't eaten they could go to waste, you need to have extra yogurt. For sandwiches you need to have extra bread and extra stuff to put in them. Do you get what I'm saying. We don't buy those things. We can't buy things we don't know we'll eat.
.

See, for me meal planning fails. When I have tried meal planning, I end up wasting food. Inevitably, something will happen that will throw the plan off and I won't get around to making a specific dish or two that I purchased ingredients for and then everything will get thrown out of whack. I do think ahead a bit, but mostly I buy what I consider staples, pick up what's in season at the farm market, keep my pantry stocked with bulk legumes and grains, and work from there. I often buy the large containers of plain yogurt for ds to make smoothies or tzazitki dip, the little cups are for me to take to work. These are counted out when I shop as planned work snacks for me. In a bind though, ds may have one.

Eggs and bread or not extra, they are staples. They are purchased every week and have the potential to be at the center of a meal. I had no plan for dinner tonight so we made french toast with fresh fruit. Thankfully ds loved it, so he got some egg protein in him.

Hard-boiled eggs also make excellent snacks/ meal substitutes.

Sorry I'm getting OT. I love talking about food.


----------



## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hoopin' Mama* 
See, for me meal planning fails. When I have tried meal planning, I end up wasting food. Inevitably, something will happen that will throw the plan off and I won't get around to making a specific dish or two that I purchased ingredients for and then everything will get thrown out of whack. I do think ahead a bit, but mostly I buy what I consider staples, pick up what's in season at the farm market, keep my pantry stocked with bulk legumes and grains, and work from there. I often buy the large containers of plain yogurt for ds to make smoothies or tzazitki dip, the little cups are for me to take to work. These are counted out when I shop as planned work snacks for me. In a bind though, ds may have one.

Eggs and bread or not extra, they are staples. They are purchased every week and have the potential to be at the center of a meal. I had no plan for dinner tonight so we made french toast with fresh fruit. Thankfully ds loved it, so he got some egg protein in him.

Hard-boiled eggs also make excellent snacks/ meal substitutes.

Sorry I'm getting OT. I love talking about food.

See - for us staples are things we purchase (ends up being in rotation) every couple of months like rice and dried beans.

Things like bread and eggs are planned and we buy them at different stores.

I would LOVE to just buy food and cook. But every time we try that we end up going shopping every 3 days and spending $100 each time. And that is something we can't do. So we plan. It's nice to do something like plan 2 meals to use an entire squash, half each time. The way it used to work for us was that we'd use half a squash and then throw out the other.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
Again just musing off your very thoughtful posts.

I do only eat food I like. Fortunately I love rice and lentils.







And most food actually. But I mention the rice and lentils and other bean and grain combinations because that is how we saved for our first house.

A big part of my journey to a better relationship with food is not to eat things I don't like. To stop overcooking the vegetables, under-seasoning the salads, etc.

When I was eating junk food it was not so much because of the taste but out of habit, fear, boredom, etc. After I weaned off those things I realized they don't really taste that great compared to really good real food. It was just that mostly I was treating the home cooking as "downmarket."

Part of righting that relationship to food for me has honestly been to not choke things down. Eating mindlessly things I didn't really like did not serve me in particular very well. Oddly enough once I committed I found that I could really give myself the experience of seeing if I could find a way to eat sardines that I could stomach. (I didn't. But okra, yes!)

And I don't mean fancy. Just prepared with care to my taste.

Of course like anyone I run into times I need to - occasionally at people's houses or weddings or the like. I'll try most things once and I can choke back the green bean casserole with the canned soup on it like most people and even smile at the aspic.

But in my home, no way. I'll try new recipes but if we don't like them (other than my completely unpredictable at this age toddler, who eats a wide range but on a sporadic basis) I don't keep them. Life's too short.

Yes. This. Very well put.

Why do we, as a culture, want to drown out our own body's messages? I think it's important to listen to your body- whether it's about hunger or sleep or simple flavor.

-Angela


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
Let me also say - I would NEVER deny food to a hungry person. EVER! I'm just not willing to have unlimited choices all the time. I'm also not willing to sub in unhealthy treat food - like yogurt - for real healthy food that we make for supper.

No one has unlimited choices all the time







If we don't have cream cheese, we don't have cream cheese. But we DO have healthy choices for when dd (or anyone else in the house) doesn't want a prepared meal.

How do you figure that plain, whole milk yogurt is unhealthy?

-Angela


----------



## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Yes. This. Very well put.

Why do we, as a culture, want to drown out our own body's messages? I think it's important to listen to your body- whether it's about hunger or sleep or simple flavor.

-Angela

Should I listen to my body when it says that it doesn't like being at work???? Should I just stop working because I don't like being there? Regardless of the fact that would make us loose our house?

Should I listen to my body when it craves potato chips and pop?

How about when I don't feel like getting off my rear and exercising?

Should I just go to sleep and let my DD cry in her room because my body says it need sleep?

We do things everyday that we don't want to do.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *trini* 
We have the "I'm hungry" issue all. the. time. And I put healthy food in front of him and he doesn't eat it. He is not a picky eater. By that I mean he has eaten a wide variety of food in the past.

Our issue happens around bedtime. I happily offer him healthy alternatives to dinner. He doesn't want that, either. Then it's bedtime and he yells, "But I'm still hungry!"

I offer and I offer and I offer healthy food. When it comes down to the wire and it's bedtime, he goes to bed hungry because I'm starting to think it's more of a bedtime issue than a food issue.

I'm at my wit's end with the whole situation.











I agree- doesn't sound like a food issue. We had a run of something similar.

-Angela


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
It's got ALOT of sugar in it. In general our suppers aren't sweet. At least the minigos (which we use now because DD doesn't eat much and we want to max the calories - and they are more dense than other yogurts) don't have much else...

In the nutritional info - most things are 1 or 2%... 3% lipids, 3 (out of 60) grams of protein... That's almost nothing. My yogurt isn't much better.

There's basically nothing in it beyond fat and sugar.

Ah, I was wondering as well.

Well, I maintain that there's nothing unhealthy about plain whole milk yogurt.

-Angela


----------



## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 

How do you figure that plain, whole milk yogurt is unhealthy?

-Angela

What makes you think it is?

It's fat... According to http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/d...products/104/2 1 serving of whole milk yogurt has 26% of the daily recommended intake of saturated fats. And very little else.

It might not be 'unhealthy' but it certainly isn't 'healthy' like a well balanced meal.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hoopin' Mama* 
Eggs and bread or not extra, they are staples. They are purchased every week and have the potential to be at the center of a meal. I had no plan for dinner tonight so we made french toast with fresh fruit. Thankfully ds loved it, so he got some egg protein in him.

Hard-boiled eggs also make excellent snacks/ meal substitutes.

Sorry I'm getting OT. I love talking about food.

Yes, this. The things I would "allow" as an alternative to a meal are staples in our house. Eggs, bread, cream cheese, nut butter, yogurt etc. They're not junky. And they're unlikely to go bad and need to be thrown out before they're used up (because they're all used regularly.)

Eggs really getting old? Breakfast for dinner! Or deviled eggs. Or a quiche. or or or.

-Angela


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
Should I listen to my body when it says that it doesn't like being at work???? Should I just stop working because I don't like being there? Regardless of the fact that would make us loose our house?

Should I listen to my body when it craves potato chips and pop?

How about when I don't feel like getting off my rear and exercising?

Should I just go to sleep and let my DD cry in her room because my body says it need sleep?

We do things everyday that we don't want to do.

If you're having a visceral reaction because you dislike your job that much- yeah, you should investigate another option.

When your crave potato chips and pop you should investigate what that really means and how you need to provide for it.

If you don't want to "get off your rear" and exercise- you need to find activity that makes you feel good that you look forward to.

If you don't want to get up to get your dd in her room, you should move her sleep space closer to yours.

Seems pretty simple to me...
















-Angela


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
What makes you think it is?

It's fat... According to http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/d...products/104/2 1 serving of whole milk yogurt has 26% of the daily recommended intake of saturated fats. And very little else.

It might not be 'unhealthy' but it certainly isn't 'healthy' like a well balanced meal.

I have no problem with natural fats. ESPECIALLY for a young growing child. I try to get as much good fat in dd as I possibly can.









-Angela


----------



## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
If you're having a visceral reaction because you dislike your job that much- yeah, you should investigate another option.

When your crave potato chips and pop you should investigate what that really means and how you need to provide for it.

If you don't want to "get off your rear" and exercise- you need to find activity that makes you feel good that you look forward to.

If you don't want to get up to get your dd in her room, you should move her sleep space closer to yours.

Seems pretty simple to me...
















-Angela

Or maybe sometimes you just have to suck it up!

I did today. I'm having morning sickness - but I had to babysit 2yo twins, a 4.5yo and my own DD. I didn't have a choice. Tomorrow I have to go to work at my office. I don't have a choice about that either.

And I'm not talking about 'visceral' reactions... I already said that I would make allowances for those and make sure I had food that was acceptable to the child. It's "likes" and "dislikes" I'm not going to cater to.


----------



## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I have no problem with natural fats. ESPECIALLY for a young growing child. I try to get as much good fat in dd as I possibly can.









-Angela

And with a toddler I don't either. DD can have as many minigos as she wants, although I don't offer them while my babysitting kids are here because 2 of them have dairy allergies and I serve all the kids the same food.

But a child is a different case. Childhood obesity is a HUGE issue in our society. And it doesn't matter if fats are 'natural' or not - they still count the same.


----------



## ~sweet pea~ (Aug 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Answering in parts.

Of course it's a valid reason. If it's valid to turn down 1 or 2 things, why not 6 or 7?

And I really have a problem with the idea that those of us saying this are "catering" to anything.

My dd WILL NOT EAT many things. How would I *not* cater to her? As I see it, my choices are 1. Attempt to MAKE her eat the food or 2. allow her to be hungry and not get enough food (see notes above about low blood sugar making everyone miserable)

What would you suggest?

-Angela


If it's valid to turn down 6 or 7 things, why not 50 things? Would it be okay to turn down everything except chicken mcnuggetts and icecream? What if your child will eat cheerios and only cheerios for every meal? What if your child won't eat the "healthy" alternative snacks and only wants junk? Where do you draw the line?

I think everyone posting on this thread is in basic agreement that a child's preferences should be taken into account to some degree. The real question is what to do when the child's preferences are contrary to what the parent believes to be proper nutrition or are outside the parent's ability or reasonable willingness to provide. It hardly seems to be a one size fits all kind of issue and I would expect that each family finds a proper balance that works for them.

You can't possibly be suggesting that people not use the word "cater" in conjunction with children and food. Whether you like it or not, I would imagine that the people who used that term believed it to serve as an accurate description. 'Cause I, too "really have a problem with the idea" of any one person on these posts making demands, outside the bounds of the UA, about what other people can and should say in their posts. The free-flow of ideas is not enhanced by the presence of thought-police.


----------



## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
In my house - DH and I eat what's for supper.


In my house, I'm the only one who eats what I cook. I pretty much never cook for my husband, although sometimes he'll buy some ground beef with the intention of making burgers, and I'll cook them for him if it looks like he is just going to eat them raw.

I do serve my kids things they don't like, because they don't like vegetables. My 4 year old used to eat vegetables all the time, but now she is starting to get picky too. So I'll serve at least one thing they like, maybe two, and then a fruit or vegetable. Last night we had a friend over with his 6 year old daughter. I served pasta with butter (or Earth Balance, their choice) with freshly shredded parmesan, and blueberries. The one girl didn't like blueberries, so I also served strawberries. And that was it. My daughter did ask for a slice of my leftover homemade cheese pizza, so I let her have that. Not the healthiest meal in the world, but that's as close as we get a lot of the time. My 4 year old fell asleep early and completely missed dinner. The adults, oddly enough, had food from Wendy's. Originally we all talked about going out or bringing in take-out, but it seemed better for me to serve pasta and fruit to the children. I do make the vegetables, but the 9 year old, at least, never seems to eat them.

The pickiness around here is unreal, I'm tired of trying to cook meals. I try the cheese stick and a piece of fruit thing, but the 9 year old feels that is insufficient, cereal or sandwiches too, some days. My husband, the pickiest eater on earth just about, has a rule that no one has to eat any food they don't want to eat. He was always forced to eat vegetables, until one day he threw up because he hated them so much, so his parents stopped forcing him. But his feeling is you should not be forced to eat, you should be allowed to choose to go hungry. The "but I'm hungryyyyyyyyy" whine after I've just offered a banana, a cheesestick or a peanut butter sandwich ticks him off big time. I just say, "OK, you are going to be hungry then, there isn't anything I can really do about it."


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
And with a toddler I don't either. DD can have as many minigos as she wants, although I don't offer them while my babysitting kids are here because 2 of them have dairy allergies and I serve all the kids the same food.

But a child is a different case. Childhood obesity is a HUGE issue in our society. And it doesn't matter if fats are 'natural' or not - they still count the same.

Childhood obesity is not cause by too much plain yogurt. The mere idea is absurd.

I will let my kids have full fat plain yogurt whenever they want.

-Angela


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~sweet pea~* 
If it's valid to turn down 6 or 7 things, why not 50 things? Would it be okay to turn down everything except chicken mcnuggetts and icecream? What if your child will eat cheerios and only cheerios for every meal? What if your child won't eat the "healthy" alternative snacks and only wants junk? Where do you draw the line?

Personally I draw the line by only offering and having available things I find nutritionally sound. Chicken mcnuggets and ice cream aren't options here









No one has suggested that.

-Angela


----------



## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
What makes you think it is?

It's fat... According to http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/d...products/104/2 1 serving of whole milk yogurt has 26% of the daily recommended intake of saturated fats. And very little else.

1 cup of Straus Organic Plain Whole Milk yogurt has 170 calories, 7g of fat, 4.5g of saturated fat, 410 mg potassium, 14g carbs, 7g sugars, 17g protein, and of the RDA vitamins, 35% calcium, 2% iron, 6% thiamine, 25% riboflavin, 4% Vitamin B6, 10% folate. It also has 4 active yogurt cultures.

Now the thing is, are my kids going to eat plain yogurt with no sweetener added? No way in hell, unless they use it as sour cream or the basis for a dip or something. But if they don't want dinner, unsweetened yogurt is not going to cut it. I would at least have to add fruit or honey and cinnamon. If you are looking for the cause of childhood obesity rates increasing, it's not plain, whole milk yogurt.


----------



## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I have no problem with natural fats. ESPECIALLY for a young growing child. I try to get as much good fat in dd as I possibly can.










-Angela

Yeah, but most children by the age of 3/4 don't need that much saturated fats. I know Savannah was FTT, but most kids aren't. Yoghurt is junky.

You're very lucky she'll eat it with no additives, mine would only have it with fruit puree mixed in from day 1. I only eat it with curry.

And, anyway, why can you never buy a single serving size of full fat plain, why is it always in huge containers?


----------



## littleaugustbaby (Jun 27, 2003)

DD generally gets some input as to what we have for dinner, and I always make sure that there is at least one thing that she likes, even if it's just a side of cut up fresh fruit. If she doesn't like whatever veggie I'm making, she can have an extra serving of fruit, or a raw veggie that she does like. If she doesn't like whatever the main dish is, I will usually offer her something simple instead, like mac and cheese or a sandwich. If she doesn't finish her dinner, a lot of times she will put her plate in the refrigerator and come back to it later. She has always been more of a grazer, so it is difficult to get her to eat a whole meal in one sitting.

If she comes to me and is hungry after a meal, I try to tell if she is really hungry, or if it is boredom. I will suggest that she get some fruit (we always have a variety of fresh fruit ready to eat), and she has a snack box full of healthy snacks in the cupboard, and sometimes I'll tell her to grab a snack from her snack box. Once dinner's over, I'm not cooking or preparing any other food, so it has to be something that she can grab easily.


----------



## AlexisT (May 6, 2007)

yoghurt certainly isn't 'junk'... the junk is the stuff they put in ready to eat yoghurts. it's actually a great source of calcium and protein, and you can get lower fat yoghurt if obesity is a huge concern.

dd eats yoghurt blended with fruit all the time (still whole milk, because she's only 18 months).

You can buy small containers of some brands (total comes in 200g and 500g), but it gets expensive!


----------



## macca (Jan 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I never deny a hungry child. If they don't want dinner at dinner- then they can have another (simple) option- yogurt, etc.

If they didn't eat dinner and are hungry later- then they get food then.









:

My daughter will often have a sandwich, a piece of fruit or a yoghurt. I don't expect her to always eat what I make.


----------



## macca (Jan 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
This is what I would do.

I'm not a short order cook - and I don't cater to picky kids or husbands...

I don't think that making a peanut-butter sandwich or giving my kid an apple is really being a short order cook


----------



## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

I've also taken the approach not to worry too much about the nutritional value of one particular meal or meal substitute, rather look at the whole day's overall nutrition. He may have only eaten the rice at dinner, but the lunchtime carrots and hummus were packed full of good things.

If it's been an exceptionally picky week, I will brainstorm to come up with something he will like. Lately he has a big aversion to beef and chicken, and he doesn't gobble up the legumes with the gusto he once did. Sometimes the lack of protein concerns me. This is why the tub of plain yogurt is good for smoothies, and why I'd rather spread some almond butter on a piece of bread for him than have him go hungry.

I don't know where the pickiness comes from and I can only hope it's a stage. This child used to eat anything. I have to wonder if the triple-digit heat has something to do with it.


----------



## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~sweet pea~* 
If it's valid to turn down 6 or 7 things, why not 50 things? Would it be okay to turn down everything except chicken mcnuggetts and icecream? What if your child will eat cheerios and only cheerios for every meal? What if your child won't eat the "healthy" alternative snacks and only wants junk? Where do you draw the line?
.

I think many of us that are posting that we don't have a problem offering something else don't actually have chicken nuggets or even cheerios in the house. The junkiest thing I I keep in my house is organic mac and cheese, which I limit to once a week and gets doctored up a bit. The junkiest snack food I have are tortilla chips, which are served with homemade pico de gallo and guac which are healthy.

When I talk about the alternative of cereal, I am talking about Kashi Crunch cereal. I haven't compared the ingredients to Cheerios, but I'm guessing it's healther. I really have gotten to the point that i don't trust the nutritional value of anything in the conventional supermarket. If Trader Joes left my town I'd be up the creek. I can't afford Whole Foods.


----------



## Ceinwen (Jul 1, 2004)

Kessed, this is really not a personal attack, but I haven't been back since my posts on page two, and I feel the need to say something.

You talked about how having 'extra' things like eggs, snacks, etc. around and how if they're not budgeted specifically - they go to waste.

I actually do work off of a pretty regular meal plan, where we try different things. And I do understand what you're saying about the difficulty inherent in working off of a budget.

My dh is the sole income earner, and we live in a bigger northern town where produce, dairy and meat is extremely $$$. Like, painfully so.

Having said that, I have never budgeted every slice of bread, or every egg, or every snack.

I have neighbourhood kids regularly drop by, or family, or company. Or dd is going through a growth spurt and eats eight times in one day. We work with what we have - and I've never had food go to waste.

I'm a big fan of leftovers actually. Most supper stuff is better the next day!

I just worry at the inflexibility of not allowing a child simple options if dinner is really disagreeable to them. How will they actually learn what they like and dislike, and how to discern that? Or will they override that as an adult, and just eat everything on their plate?

Like I said, I was spared from the typical 'clean your plate' syndrome as a child. And while the 'try just ONE bite' may work for some children, my dd WOULD literally vomit at the table. And that is just so far beyond humane, I can't even comprehend it.

And to the pp that said it could lead to ice cream and chicken nuggets - like Angela said, if it's not in the house, it's not an option.

And quite frankly, the ice cream and chicken nuggets we make at home here *would* be a healthy option. Along with plain whole fat yoghurt - I'm willing to bet it all that yoghurt is *not* contributing to the obesity epidemic in North America.

More likely drive through fast food and super size pop, right?

This is a really interesting discussion though!


----------



## FoxintheSnow (May 11, 2004)

We tell ds that if he doesnt like what's made, he can eat pb&j, which we are teaching him to make himself. He likes pb&j, and it's a healthy meal (as long you buy only healthy components of the sandwich) and it takes like 30 seconds to make.


----------



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Yogurt is a healthy food, so long as you're not buying Trix yogurt or something like that. That's just silly. And young children, particularly toddlers, need a lot of fat.

Kessed, I see your child is only 1.5. Are you aware that at some point your child will go through cycles where she will eat tons each day and be hungry all the time for a week or so, and then go through another week or so when she'll just pick and won't eat much? That's how kids eat. They know when they're going through growth spurts and need a lot to eat, and they would truly be starving their bodies if they didn't eat as much as they need at those times, and then they also know when their bodies don't need much. What are you going to do when your child is older and is going through that?


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
Yeah, but most children by the age of 3/4 don't need that much saturated fats. I know Savannah was FTT, but most kids aren't. Yoghurt is junky.

You're very lucky she'll eat it with no additives, mine would only have it with fruit puree mixed in from day 1. I only eat it with curry.

And, anyway, why can you never buy a single serving size of full fat plain, why is it always in huge containers?

Savannah was never FTT for the record.

And I still don't think there's anything junky about yogurt.

-Angela


----------



## maliceinwonderland (Apr 17, 2005)

I don't understand the whole "If I don't like what's for dinner I make myself something else so kids should be able to as well" thing. Sometimes dinner is something I don't like (if for example it's SO or dd's night to pick dinner) and I just eat it anyway. Same with SO. I guess it would be pretty hypocritical for a parent to make themselves something different but not allow a child to. I just don't see how it's such a big deal. You eat dinner and move on with the evening. It doesn't ruin my whole day to swallow a couple mouthfuls of peas or beans and I want my kids to have the ability to work through things they don't enjoy and carry on with life.


----------



## prairiemommy (Sep 25, 2003)

I have to say that I agree with Kessed somewhat and I find that Viola brought up a really good point too.

I have four children. If I made meals that took into consideration everyone's likes and dislikes PLUS allergies that we have, I'd be handing out raw peas to everyone every night. And maybe some chicken.

So yeah, I plan suppers and make the meals. There will be something that each kid doesn't like more often than not - that is the reality when you are accommodating a lot of people. Our rule is "This is your supper, it is healthy and you need to eat some of it." I never force them to eat TONS but they must eat some.

After supper, everyone is allowed to have fruit and then a small dessert (we're talking a homemade cookie or something). But I will not and have never made extra meals for those who didn't like what we were having. Sometimes my meal plan accounts for that but more often than not, it doesn't. Even now - we're learning a new way to eat because the youngest is allergic to dairy and gluten so that is how I cook for everyone at supper.

When I make my meal plan, I ask each kid for ideas for one supper that week - that way they know their likes are being taken into account. But I'm not going to deny DS1 steak because DD doesn't like it. She'll get her noodles a few days later.

Sometimes they are still hungry after fruit and small dessert. I offer more supper, as generally those are the days that they didn't eat much supper. Sometimes they will take me up on it, sometimes not.

And to touch on what Viola said - a yogurt or an egg is *not* enough supper substitute for my 10 year old. I noticed that a lot of the posters here have small children and perhaps even just one small child. Just wait until you are feeding older ones (and more than one!) who cannot just have a yogurt instead and want a hamburger and fries (homemade even) instead of sitr-fry. My 10 yo will still be hungry because she needs a full meal. Same with my 8 year old.

Breakfast on weekdays and lunch most days is more free-form so the kids do have a say in what they eat, lest anyone think my kids get no freedom of choice. It's been a long-standing rule that I am in charge of supper while they get more freedom with other meals

So to answer the OP's question - my kids rarely outright refuse what's on the table for supper because they know that's what there is. I too have done the, "wrap it up and save it for bedtime snack" and they have eaten it then, with whatever the others had for bedtime snack after their supper was eaten. It isn't practical for me to let one child decide they don't like what we're having - then all of a sudden I'd have at least two that want an alternative and they'd probably both want different alternatives and then I'm up and cooking more etc... You can see the snowball effect.

Supper is supper. It is what we eat.


----------



## maliceinwonderland (Apr 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *prairiemommy* 
Supper is supper. It is what we eat.

















:

That's what I was trying to say in my rambling post above.


----------



## MCR (Nov 20, 2001)

I have to Ask What is a Mingo?


----------



## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *prairiemommy* 
Supper is supper. It is what we eat.










This is true for us and dd, age 7. It was not that simple when she was 2-3, though.

At that age, I always put a small plate of fruit or cut veggies, and maybe a some cheese cubes, on the table along with the rest of the meal. We never called the fruit and cheese "dd's food" or "kid food", but it was just there. She was free to eat whatever was on the table. We modeled eating, and enjoying, the prepared entree/sides.

Over the years, and over many exposures, dd grew to try and enjoy more and more of the meals. After a while, she was choosing the meal over the fruit/cheese, so the fruit/cheese got phased out. She is now a very adventurous eater.

Ds is now 1.5, and eats what we eat. He isn't nearly as sensitive to spices and things as dd was at his age.

The things that are important to me at mealtime are:

1. Spending pleasant time together, and
2. Getting enough nutritious food

in that order. More than anything, I want family meals to be pleasant. Nutritional needs can be met at other times throughout the day, but this might be the ONLY time of the day that we all sit down together.

I do have one rule--no disparaging the food. No "yuck!" or "this is gross." It is fine to say that you don't like it, or choose not to eat it, but it is not ok to be disparage the food that someone lovingly prepared for the family. Not cool.


----------



## katheek77 (Mar 13, 2007)

For me, it depends on the "severity" (I guess) of the dislike.

I cannot stand steak. Can't. It makes me gag. My DH loves it. So, if I make steak for him, I usually make sure there are other things for me to fill up on (potatoes, salad, a cooked veggie), or I may just eat leftovers. However, although I'm not a big fan of pot roast (or most other roasts), I will eat a few bites at dinner, and just "deal". DH has similar issues - some he *can't* eat (spicy), others he's just not a fan of (most veggies







).

I think we're setting a good example for our daughter, who, as far as we can see, doesn't have a lot of dislikes. Yes, if you truly dislike something, you are free to refuse, and I'll make sure there is something you DO like there. At the same time, if you're being picky for the sake of being picky, don't expect special accomodations. As adults, we (in our house) don't. I think it's perfectly reasonable to accomodate absolute dislikes, but, I'm not going to give my daughter free reign just because she doesn't "feel like" XYZ that night (and yes, I do plan dinners, so, sometimes, even *I* don't "feel like" XYZ, but that's what's for dinner). She doesn't have to eat XYZ, is free to choose from whatever else is on the table, but, I'm not making another main course for her. At the same time, breakfast, lunch, and snacks are very much whatever we "feel like" as long as it's in the house, so no one is being subjected to a steady diet of mashed turnips. DD had leftover baked pasta, half an orange, and some strawberries for breakfast.







: Fine with me.

The only time that I enforce "You need to eat that" is when she specifically asks for food A, and then, when I prepare it (which may just be cutting it and putting it in a bowl, so, not like decades have passed), decides she doesn't want that, but wants B. She's not getting B until she eats some of A, because *she* CHOSE A, I took the time to prepare it for her, and, no, I'm not playing "musical foods" with her for an hour.

So, I'm sure some of you think I'm a terrible ogre cracking the food whip, and others think I'm far too indulgent


----------



## ~sweet pea~ (Aug 8, 2007)

I think it's hysterical that all the responses to my post have been to the portion that was intended as rhetorical (the mcnuggetss and icecream), while the rest was ignored.

My point was that of course as parents we lay down boundaries on what our kids eat and how often. The real question, as I stated before, is where to lay that boundary. That answer is going to vary by family. While it's nice to make suggestions and to know what works in one's own family, I think it's preposterous to suggest that there's some universal answer. The arguments about what is reasonable are going to differ because reasonable minds can differ.

for example, I tend to agree with the following:

Quote:

It doesn't ruin my whole day to swallow a couple mouthfuls of peas or beans and *I want my kids to have the ability to work through things they don't enjoy and carry on with life.*
I, personally, place greater value on my child learning that there is worth in perservering through doing (or eating) things that one doesn't particularly like. However, someone else may not think there is any value in this at all. At that point, it's really a philosophical debate about whose values are better. Really, is it so hard to say "This is what works for us, but to each his own," recognizing that none of us is in a position to judge what other does? Or is it ALL about the judgment?


----------



## DragonflyBlue (Oct 21, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jokerama* 
We tell ds that if he doesnt like what's made, he can eat pb&j, which we are teaching him to make himself. He likes pb&j, and it's a healthy meal (as long you buy only healthy components of the sandwich) and it takes like 30 seconds to make.


This is what I do on the rare occassion I have had the food refusal come up. I can count on one hand, still have fingers left over that in over 23 years of parenting this has happened.

Maybe I lucked out, but my kids will eat anything and everything. There are some minor preference such as not liking ketchup or mustard, preferring peanut butter to be smooth or creamy that are totally normal things, but my kids will literally eat anything.

When I make something new and the little ones start to wrinkle their nose I smile, tell them that it was one of their favorites but I had not made it in a long time. They'll taste it, eat it ask for more.







:

I'm sure I will take a beating for this, but I really do believe that some picky eaters are that way simply because they are catered to from the get go. I've seen too many parents who let the kids rule the roost as far as food goes.

*This* is what I made for breakfast, lunch, dinner. You may choose to eat it or not. My step mil totally catered to her son. I watched one day as she fried up a dozen eggs for him before he ate one that was *just* the way he liked it. The others were tossed in the trash. No way in Hades would I ever do anything like that with my kids.

My grandson who will not eat certain foods at his house, will eat them at mine. Go figure. *shrug*


----------



## lindberg99 (Apr 23, 2003)

You know, what has always struck me as odd is (at least in the families I know), dinner is dinner but nobody seems to care what you eat for breakfast or lunch.

Like for breakfast, don't you ever ask your child if they would prefer oatmeal or cold cereal? Or do you just pour out cereal without asking?

And how about lunch? (Although for some people, maybe lunch is a big non-negotiable meal?) I will ask: Do you want yogurt or a sandwich? And I give them a choice of sandwiches too, like PB & J or ham. I give them a fruit too but again, I ask them. Do you want an orange or banana?

I don't know, maybe I'm the only one who does this.







But if I offer my kids choices at breakfast and lunch, why should I be so put out if someone wants a PB & J that s/he makes themself instead of steak at dinner?


----------



## maliceinwonderland (Apr 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~sweet pea~* 
However, someone else may not think there is any value in this at all. At that point, it's really a philosophical debate about whose values are better. Really, is it so hard to say "This is what works for us, but to each his own," recognizing that none of us is in a position to judge what other does? Or is it ALL about the judgment?

My answer to that would have to be, I do what works for my family, everyone else can do whatever they like. I don't generally spend a lot of time dwelling on the feeding habits of other families, I have more important things to bother with.


----------



## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Savannah was never FTT for the record.

And I still don't think there's anything junky about yogurt.

-Angela

I'm sorry, I must have had you mixed up with someone else. I remember now, you don't visit doctors.


----------



## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

Hmmm... so everybody approaches dinner differently.

Here, it's my job to shop and cook meals. DH has other household jobs. If he looked at my dinners and made himself something else, I would be offended. And it would throw off our meal plans drastically too if it happened on a regular basis, as would regular post-dinner snacks. I ask before I grocery shop if people have preferences for that week, I take their likes into account before I meal plan. I sometimes even ask that morning if they'd prefer 1 of the 2-3 meals I have the ingredients for. And when it's served, if it's brand new it's not the core of the meal, and everyone should try 2 bites if they've never had it before.

This morning I asked if DH and DD would rather burrito wraps (with sweet potato this time, which is new) or salad with mock chicken and apple. They chose wraps. Salad will be tomorrow's dinner. DD hasn't had sweet potato in a very long time (she liked it then). I'm sure she'll build her burrito with the ingredients she knows and likes--wrap, rice, black beans, cheese, sour cream. I'll ask her to try 2 bites of sweet potato. It's not the main part of the meal, I'm not going to make her clear her plate of a servings worth of it. She won't go hungry. She might say she wants chocolate instead, or cookies. I'll tell her we all need to finish dinner first and she needs to eat healthy foods first.

If she decides she's not hungry and doesn't want any of the things that are for dinner that she normally eats? Hmmm... I don't know. That's never happened. I guess she could have healthy snacks that are in the house, but those are budgeted for the week, so if she ate them all, she wouldn't have them in her summer camp lunches or other times she expects to have them. I wouldn't buy more I don't think. I wouldn't make a new meal either. I figured I'd offer the option of something the kids can get and clean up themselves when they got older and it got to that situation, but I don't know if I will. I mean I'd be pretty annoyed if DH did that. We both do it for leftovers for lunch sometimes, and get sandwiches instead, but if it's for dinner... I dunno, I worked to make that and it was even requested...


----------



## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Why argue? You feed your kids your way; I'll feed my kids my way. Agree to disagree.


----------



## katheek77 (Mar 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lindberg99* 
You know, what has always struck me as odd is (at least in the families I know), dinner is dinner but nobody seems to care what you eat for breakfast or lunch.

Like for breakfast, don't you ever ask your child if they would prefer oatmeal or cold cereal? Or do you just pour out cereal without asking?

And how about lunch? (Although for some people, maybe lunch is a big non-negotiable meal?) I will ask: Do you want yogurt or a sandwich? And I give them a choice of sandwiches too, like PB & J or ham. I give them a fruit too but again, I ask them. Do you want an orange or banana?

I don't know, maybe I'm the only one who does this.







But if I offer my kids choices at breakfast and lunch, why should I be so put out if someone wants a PB & J that s/he makes themself instead of steak at dinner?

I don't think you need to be put out, but my perspective is that sometimes, you may have to eat something that you're not dying to. Also, life is about balance. Dinner is usually the most labor intensive meal at my house, I shop and plan for it days ahead of time. I take likes and dislikes into account. And, 5/6 meals (if you include snacks) are pretty much free-for-all. I don't think there's anything wrong with saying, "Look, I made XYZ. You are free to not eat it, but don't expect me to prepare anything else for you, especially when you ate it three weeks ago and enjoyed it." Also, because, while PB and J is healthy, not ever eating a vegetable probably is not. And, because there may be times where PB and J is not available (say, at a peanut free school, or a friend's with a peanut allergy)? Because maybe there does have to be a line drawn somewhere - (I don't pretend to know where that is, but, obviously, there are extremes at both ends) - if you have a kid who does become super-picky, are you ok with them eating pb&j for every. single. meal? Because, yes, I have seen that come very close to happening (in that case it was noodles with butter, apple juice, and coffee-flavored yogurt. Oh, but he'd eat McDonalds.)


----------



## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *prairiemommy* 
And to touch on what Viola said - a yogurt or an egg is *not* enough supper substitute for my 10 year old. I noticed that a lot of the posters here have small children and perhaps even just one small child. Just wait until you are feeding older ones (and more than one!) who cannot just have a yogurt instead and want a hamburger and fries (homemade even) instead of sitr-fry. My 10 yo will still be hungry because she needs a full meal. Same with my 8 year old.


Just for the record, I have an 11 yo. and a 6 yo. I'm still very flexible with their food needs.


----------



## mran (Dec 9, 2007)

I plan my meals so that there is something that everyone (parents and kids alike) will enjoy. If someone doesn't like the meal, they are more than welcome to serve up something else for themselves.

I will not serve dessert of any kind if no dinner was eaten.


----------



## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lindberg99* 
You know, what has always struck me as odd is (at least in the families I know), dinner is dinner but nobody seems to care what you eat for breakfast or lunch.

Like for breakfast, don't you ever ask your child if they would prefer oatmeal or cold cereal? Or do you just pour out cereal without asking?

And how about lunch? (Although for some people, maybe lunch is a big non-negotiable meal?) I will ask: Do you want yogurt or a sandwich? And I give them a choice of sandwiches too, like PB & J or ham. I give them a fruit too but again, I ask them. Do you want an orange or banana?

I don't know, maybe I'm the only one who does this.







But if I offer my kids choices at breakfast and lunch, why should I be so put out if someone wants a PB & J that s/he makes themself instead of steak at dinner?

I give choices at most of the meals, including dinner, but it has to be something I already have. So bagels aren't a breakfast option when we don't have bagels. And while we might eat different things at breakfast, or lunch, we don't for the most part. I'm not making mac and cheese and pbj one for each kid at lunchtime when DS is old enough for lunch. Any more than I'm making 2 different meals at dinner. There are always options in our meals though-sandwiches for lunch, would you like cheese, pbj, jelly, hummus. Dinner is mock chicken with salad and breadsticks. DD doesn't eat salad. What uncooked veggies we have available would she like in place of salad greens?


----------



## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

I would get my child something simple- a sandwich, an apple, yogurt, or cut veggies or a salad that we usually always have in the fridge.


----------



## maliceinwonderland (Apr 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lindberg99* 
You know, what has always struck me as odd is (at least in the families I know), dinner is dinner but nobody seems to care what you eat for breakfast or lunch.

Like for breakfast, don't you ever ask your child if they would prefer oatmeal or cold cereal? Or do you just pour out cereal without asking?

And how about lunch? (Although for some people, maybe lunch is a big non-negotiable meal?) I will ask: Do you want yogurt or a sandwich? And I give them a choice of sandwiches too, like PB & J or ham. I give them a fruit too but again, I ask them. Do you want an orange or banana?

I don't know, maybe I'm the only one who does this.







But if I offer my kids choices at breakfast and lunch, why should I be so put out if someone wants a PB & J that s/he makes themself instead of steak at dinner?

All of our meals (breakfast, lunch, dinner, snacks) are planned 1-2 weeks at a time. Everyone gets input while I'm planning the menu, but we generally stick to whatever was planned for each day. Between SO, dd and myself the food preferences vary so wildly I'd be ready to head back to bed after breakfast if I made exactly what everyone wanted every day. Everyone generally gets their "favorites" at least once a week here and the other days we recognize that it's someone else's turn to have their favorite.


----------



## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

If my child does not eat their dinner, then they will have it for breakfast. If they won't eat it for breakfast, then they will have it for lunch. And so on.

Kidding. This is life, not a Shirley Temple movie.


----------



## mamajama (Oct 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *littleaugustbaby* 
DD generally gets some input as to what we have for dinner, and I always make sure that there is at least one thing that she likes, even if it's just a side of cut up fresh fruit. If she doesn't like whatever veggie I'm making, she can have an extra serving of fruit, or a raw veggie that she does like. If she doesn't like whatever the main dish is, I will usually offer her something simple instead, like mac and cheese or a sandwich. If she doesn't finish her dinner, a lot of times she will put her plate in the refrigerator and come back to it later. She has always been more of a grazer, so it is difficult to get her to eat a whole meal in one sitting.

If she comes to me and is hungry after a meal, I try to tell if she is really hungry, or if it is boredom. I will suggest that she get some fruit (we always have a variety of fresh fruit ready to eat), and she has a snack box full of healthy snacks in the cupboard, and sometimes I'll tell her to grab a snack from her snack box. Once dinner's over, I'm not cooking or preparing any other food, so it has to be something that she can grab easily.


This is identical to how we do it! Although I don't make another main dish unless I'm experimenting and it's something I'm pretty sure they don't like---eggplant casserole or something


----------



## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MCR* 
I have to Ask What is a Mingo?

It's a tiny pot of soft cheese/yogurt. It has 60 to 70 (depending on the flavor) calories per 60g pot. So they are VERY dense for calories.

My DD doesn't eat more than a few bites at a time - so it's been important for her food to be dense.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *prairiemommy* 
I have to say that I agree with Kessed somewhat and I find that Viola brought up a really good point too.

I have four children. If I made meals that took into consideration everyone's likes and dislikes PLUS allergies that we have, I'd be handing out raw peas to everyone every night. And maybe some chicken.

So yeah, I plan suppers and make the meals. There will be something that each kid doesn't like more often than not - that is the reality when you are accommodating a lot of people. Our rule is "This is your supper, it is healthy and you need to eat some of it." I never force them to eat TONS but they must eat some.

After supper, everyone is allowed to have fruit and then a small dessert (we're talking a homemade cookie or something). But I will not and have never made extra meals for those who didn't like what we were having. Sometimes my meal plan accounts for that but more often than not, it doesn't. Even now - we're learning a new way to eat because the youngest is allergic to dairy and gluten so that is how I cook for everyone at supper.

When I make my meal plan, I ask each kid for ideas for one supper that week - that way they know their likes are being taken into account. But I'm not going to deny DS1 steak because DD doesn't like it. She'll get her noodles a few days later.

Sometimes they are still hungry after fruit and small dessert. I offer more supper, as generally those are the days that they didn't eat much supper. Sometimes they will take me up on it, sometimes not.

And to touch on what Viola said - a yogurt or an egg is *not* enough supper substitute for my 10 year old. I noticed that a lot of the posters here have small children and perhaps even just one small child. Just wait until you are feeding older ones (and more than one!) who cannot just have a yogurt instead and want a hamburger and fries (homemade even) instead of sitr-fry. My 10 yo will still be hungry because she needs a full meal. Same with my 8 year old.

Breakfast on weekdays and lunch most days is more free-form so the kids do have a say in what they eat, lest anyone think my kids get no freedom of choice. It's been a long-standing rule that I am in charge of supper while they get more freedom with other meals

So to answer the OP's question - my kids rarely outright refuse what's on the table for supper because they know that's what there is. I too have done the, "wrap it up and save it for bedtime snack" and they have eaten it then, with whatever the others had for bedtime snack after their supper was eaten. It isn't practical for me to let one child decide they don't like what we're having - then all of a sudden I'd have at least two that want an alternative and they'd probably both want different alternatives and then I'm up and cooking more etc... You can see the snowball effect.

Supper is supper. It is what we eat.









Excellent post!

That's how I was brought up. We just ate supper. If it was a stir-fry we could politely put 'things' (we were allowed 2 or 3 specific foods we didn't like - and they couldn't change every day) we didn't like to the side. As long as it was done politely - there was no issue. I hated fried onions for the longest time.

I can't remember there ever being a big fight about it. From about 4 or 5 on - we were expected to eat at least 1 bite of each thing. If we ate 1 bite of each thing - after a 'reasonable' amount of time (at least half an hour) we could have a snack of some sort.


----------



## DragonflyBlue (Oct 21, 2003)

nvm


----------



## ~sweet pea~ (Aug 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lindberg99* 
You know, what has always struck me as odd is (at least in the families I know), dinner is dinner but nobody seems to care what you eat for breakfast or lunch.

I think that for some people, supper is family time. It's about more than just putting food in your mouth. It's about having a shared experience. My DH grew up in a house where everyone did their own thing for all meals. What he likes most about my family is that we have big, sit-down, pass-the-plate family affairs, something he now thinks he missed out on as a kid. Mostly, it's a cultural thing, and as I've said, to each his own. For me, haphazard snacks of yogurt or a PB&J some time before bed simply _isn't_ supper.


----------



## DragonflyBlue (Oct 21, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karina5* 
If my child does not eat their dinner, then they will have it for breakfast. If they won't eat it for breakfast, then they will have it for lunch. And so on. Kidding. This is life, not a Shirley Temple movie.


That's not Shirley Temple. That was in Mommy Dearest,









My mom was like this though. Only thing worse than liver for dinner was trying to gag down that farkin liver for the next few meals till I could get it down.

It sucked...


----------



## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karina5* 
If my child does not eat their dinner, then they will have it for breakfast. If they won't eat it for breakfast, then they will have it for lunch. And so on.

Kidding. This is life, not a Shirley Temple movie.

OMG, karina, you totally scared me!

I think so much of this depends on age. At two, dd doesn't eat a whole lot in one sitting--she naturally grazes throughout the day. And dinner is almost always her smallest meal of the day. I never make it a "battleground" meal--which is to say, I almost never introduce new foods or have high expectations, because she's just not that hungry at the end of the day. So, for her, a yogurt might be "enough" for dinner. A 10 year old is different--and a 10 year old also has a much greater capacity to understand the work that goes into cooking a meal, what a balanced meal looks like, etc.

Dinner is our least formal meal of the day. Dh is almost never home. We eat breakfast together every day, and dd and I eat lunch together. Sometimes dd will eat dinner by herself (I sit with her, obviously) and dh I will eat later. Sometimes I will eat what she's eating. Sometimes we all have something different. She has very extensive food allergies, and dh and I really like to have a wider range of foods sometimes. She'll almost always eat part of her dinner (at least the fruit, or some chicken, or whatever), but if she doesn't, I won't necessarily offer an alternative unless she asks. If she does, she can have something simple--a slice of whole grain bread with cheese or something like that. I never, ever force my child to eat anything (though I certainly encourage her to try new things and offer her a wide variety of foods). I've seen the damaging effects of that up close.

Finally: I really don't see why people are getting up in arms about what other people do. If someone can't afford lots of extra snacks, or if someone feels older children should eat what they're served, I totally respect that. But if other families do it differently...why do you care? It sounds like everyone on this thread is feeding their kids reasonable, well-balanced diets, and it doesn't sound like anyone is making 3 or 4 complicated meals a night to "cater" to different desires.


----------



## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NYCVeg* 
OMG, karina, you totally scared me!

.
















:

Then my work here is done.


----------



## mamameg (Feb 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
I'm sorry, I must have had you mixed up with someone else. I remember now, you don't visit doctors.

And you certainly can't get a diagnosis if you never go to the doctor. Doesn't mean there's nothing going on - it just means you don't know about it.

I'm not all rah rah about doctors, but if my child wasn't eating and wasn't gaining weight, you can bet I would be making an appointment with _someone_.


----------



## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lindberg99* 
But if I offer my kids choices at breakfast and lunch, why should I be so put out if someone wants a PB & J that s/he makes themself instead of steak at dinner?

For us, dinner is a family event. It's special. Breakfast and lunch usually are not; usually they are a bit of a free-for-all. Some days, breakfast or lunch are a family event (bagels and lox on Christmas morning, for example), and we don't offer choices on those special occasions. Everyone is too excited about the special breakfast to want choices, anyway!

Dinner is a family event every day. Dd looks forward to our family dinners (more so than breakfast and lunch, which are just about eating), and sharing lovingly prepared meals is part of the fun. Also, there is the discovery of "what's for dinner?" every day!


----------



## orangecanoe (Aug 3, 2003)

I don't happen to think that yogurt eating is a cause of obesity, but I would hazard a guess that food selectivity is. IMO, when you allow alternatives to balanced meals, that's the road you're heading down. It's often abundantly clear to me that some kids here may have sensory or oral motor issues that aren't being addressed.

I'm with some others on this thread in that I don't force foods that my kids are known to not like. DD1 hates when I put spinach in the pasta sauce so I leave hers without, but that's as far as I take it.

DD2 would be happy to eat nothing but baby carrots and drink horizon chocolate milk boxes all day long. And she would certainly be doing backflips if she knew that she could have yogurt for dinner every night instead of working through issues with food textures and tastes to find what her true likes and dislikes are. You know what? Mealtimes are not a struggle or a game of short-order cooking in our house. DH and I have consistent mealtime expectations and lead by example. I save the variety and choice for snacks, not mealtime. ymmv.


----------



## jackson'smama (May 14, 2005)

W-O-W! i never thought i'd start a hot topic with this question! to clarify OUR situation...

ds is almost 4 and most nights, i fix everybody the same thing or make him a variation. like last night, we had taco salad. instead of a made up salad, i served him a cheese quesadilla with the "chili beans" on the side and then some cut up veggies and fruit. he hates lettuce. i don't know if that's catering, or bad, or whatever, but it's what we do.

my mom, OTOH, has a thing with ALWAYS making him some type of pasta. no matter what she's making. she's one of those "well he's got to eat SOMETHING and he'll always eat noodles." fortunately, i've forced the high protein/omega3/whole grain pasta and she makes it from scratch - not a box. who knows how much better it is, but i feel better about it and i insist that it's cooked with broccoli in the same pot (b/c the broc sticks to the pasta well when it's cooking).

my biggest problem is that now that he's had a taste of some of the things he never had available when he was younger, he seems to want them more often. then we have the issue of making certain things "off limits" and whether that's right or wrong and whether it causes more of a craving/addiction if it's off limits. for example, we recently purchased marshmallows to make smores for a campout. (should i find the smiley hiding under the chair?) now, we have a partial bag of marshmallows and he knows it and he wants them. so, we have nights where i know i've made something for dinner that he likes and all he can do is think about how he's gonna get a marshmallow instead. so he refuses supper (or part of it). then, thinks he's gonna get a marshmallow (or whatever it is he's decided he wants) and when i say no, he starts in with the "i'm hungryyyyyyyyyyyy" bit.


----------



## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jackson'smama* 
so, we have nights where i know i've made something for dinner that he likes and all he can do is think about how he's gonna get a marshmallow instead. so he refuses supper (or part of it). then, thinks he's gonna get a marshmallow (or whatever it is he's decided he wants) and when i say no, he starts in with the "i'm hungryyyyyyyyyyyy" bit.

Dd was like that at that age. She got so fixated on the dessert (when there was one) that she didn't eat her meal, no matter how much she liked it!

It helped when I served the "dessert" alongside her dinner. I'd just put his portion of marshmallows right on the plate with his food. Sometimes dd would eat the treat first, and then move on and eat her meal. Other times she would let the treat sit until she'd finished her meal and we all were eating dessert. But it really helped to just give her a portion, so she could move on


----------



## littleaugustbaby (Jun 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamajama* 
This is identical to how we do it! Although I don't make another main dish unless I'm experimenting and it's something I'm pretty sure they don't like---eggplant casserole or something









Yeah, same here! Most nights dinner is something that everyone likes, but I love stuff that nobody else in my family likes, like Indian food, and I love to try new recipes, so I make that stuff for myself and everyone else can eat their boring old food.


----------



## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karina5* 

Kidding.

I'm SOOO glad you're kidding!!


----------



## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heatherfeather* 
I don't happen to think that yogurt eating is a cause of obesity, but I would hazard a guess that food selectivity is. IMO, when you allow alternatives to balanced meals, that's the road you're heading down.

I'd state that it's exactly the opposite. (And btw, "alteratives" to balanced meals can certainly be other balanced things, as well.)

My dh is a "you eat what I put in front of you" kind of guy. Well, he would be if I weren't here to balance him out. Anyway, he's quite a bit overweight.

I eat what I want, when I want it. And I'm normal weight.

My kids are healthy weights, too.

Forcing food on kids makes them ignore their own hunger and satiety signals, and that messes up metabolism and influences obesity. (There are other factors that influence obesity as well: genetics, amount of sleep the child gets--less sleep directly correlates to higher obesity rates-- amount of exercise the child gets, amount of TV the child watches, even the amount of good bacteria in the gut, as they are now finding out. Obesity is complex.)

There are certainly ways to influence good food choices beyond force. First of all, breastfed babies _*typically*_ are less picky than formula fed babes. (As a general rule.)

Also, my kids LOVE their veggies, and a large part of that is because we grow tons of yummy, fresh, organic veggies in our garden. When they've planted it and weeded it, they want to take part in eating it.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamameg* 
And you certainly can't get a diagnosis if you never go to the doctor. Doesn't mean there's nothing going on - it just means you don't know about it.

I'm not all rah rah about doctors, but if my child wasn't eating and wasn't gaining weight, you can bet I would be making an appointment with _someone_.

Dd has always grown and been healthy.

-Angela


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
I'd state that it's exactly the opposite. (And btw, "alteratives" to balanced meals can certainly be other balanced things, as well.)

My dh is a "you eat what I put in front of you" kind of guy. Well, he would be if I weren't here to balance him out. Anyway, he's quite a bit overweight.

I eat what I want, when I want it. And I'm normal weight.

My kids are healthy weights, too.

Forcing food on kids makes them ignore their own hunger and satiety signals, and that messes up metabolism and influences obesity. (There are other factors that influence obesity as well: genetics, amount of sleep the child gets--less sleep directly correlates to higher obesity rates-- amount of exercise the child gets, amount of TV the child watches, even the amount of good bacteria in the gut, as they are now finding out. Obesity is complex.)

There are certainly ways to influence good food choices beyond force. First of all, breastfed babies _*typically*_ are less picky than formula fed babes. (As a general rule.)











-Angela


----------



## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maliceinwonderland* 
I don't understand the whole "If I don't like what's for dinner I make myself something else so kids should be able to as well" thing. Sometimes dinner is something I don't like (if for example it's SO or dd's night to pick dinner) and I just eat it anyway. Same with SO. I guess it would be pretty hypocritical for a parent to make themselves something different but not allow a child to. I just don't see how it's such a big deal. You eat dinner and move on with the evening. It doesn't ruin my whole day to swallow a couple mouthfuls of peas or beans and I want my kids to have the ability to work through things they don't enjoy and carry on with life.


There are very few things I dislike in the unprocessed food realm (and I'm a sucker for frozen pizza). When I choose not to eat it is usually me listening to my body. If I can tell a heavy Italian meal is not what my stomach can handle at the moment, I will not eat it. Dh can enjoy his Italian meal, and I will make a salad and join my family at the table.

It's not about absolutely refusing to take a spoonful of peas. I really believe in listening to my body and following rational cravings. (I say rational because my lust for salty potato chips is very much not rational).

Maybe my son is doing the same thing right now in his own peculiar way. Maybe the heat is making him eat less and drink more fluids. I dunno.


----------



## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
I'd state that it's exactly the opposite. (And btw, "alteratives" to balanced meals can certainly be other balanced things, as well.)

My dh is a "you eat what I put in front of you" kind of guy. Well, he would be if I weren't here to balance him out. Anyway, he's quite a bit overweight.

I eat what I want, when I want it. And I'm normal weight.

My kids are healthy weights, too.

Forcing food on kids makes them ignore their own hunger and satiety signals, and that messes up metabolism and influences obesity. (There are other factors that influence obesity as well: genetics, amount of sleep the child gets--less sleep directly correlates to higher obesity rates-- amount of exercise the child gets, amount of TV the child watches, even the amount of good bacteria in the gut, as they are now finding out. Obesity is complex.)

There are certainly ways to influence good food choices beyond force. First of all, breastfed babies _*typically*_ are less picky than formula fed babes. (As a general rule.)

Also, my kids LOVE their veggies, and a large part of that is because we grow tons of yummy, fresh, organic veggies in our garden. When they've planted it and weeded it, they want to take part in eating it.

This is my experience too. I'm fine with people doing things a different way but I have to admit because of my past I am fascinated with these choices and how people make them.

My son's most frequent requests instead of whatever we're eating are chickpeas, lima beans, broccoli, cheese, and PB & J, OR whatever we've picked or bought together. Although I find it kind of fascinating that if, say, we've been light on beta-carotene veggies that week he often goes to the fridge and asks for carrots. I assume this wears off at some point but for now it's great. He is in the "eats two tablespoons of food for 5 nights running and then consumed two adult-sized portions in a single sitting" phase now.

I suppose it's too hippy to admit that we make our own yoghurt from skim milk.  But he's not that keen on it alone; we use it in curries and smoothies.


----------



## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
Why argue? You feed your kids your way; I'll feed my kids my way. Agree to disagree.

Amen!

As a Mom of one three year old and jobs that aren't regular 9-5 schedules, dinnertime is going to look different here than a house with 3 kids and parents home by 5pm.


----------



## trini (Sep 20, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jackson'smama* 
my biggest problem is that now that he's had a taste of some of the things he never had available when he was younger, he seems to want them more often. then we have the issue of making certain things "off limits" and whether that's right or wrong and whether it causes more of a craving/addiction if it's off limits. for example, we recently purchased marshmallows to make smores for a campout. (should i find the smiley hiding under the chair?) now, we have a partial bag of marshmallows and he knows it and he wants them. so, we have nights where i know i've made something for dinner that he likes and all he can do is think about how he's gonna get a marshmallow instead. so he refuses supper (or part of it). then, thinks he's gonna get a marshmallow (or whatever it is he's decided he wants) and when i say no, he starts in with the "i'm hungryyyyyyyyyyyy" bit.

This is pretty much our situation. He refuses to eat the food offered, even though he used to like it and even though he is hungry.

(We have marshmallows in the pantry, too. From making fudge. I am not at all ashamed.


----------



## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
I'd state that it's exactly the opposite. (And btw, "alteratives" to balanced meals can certainly be other balanced things, as well.)

My dh is a "you eat what I put in front of you" kind of guy. Well, he would be if I weren't here to balance him out. Anyway, he's quite a bit overweight.

I eat what I want, when I want it. And I'm normal weight.

My kids are healthy weights, too.

Forcing food on kids makes them ignore their own hunger and satiety signals, and that messes up metabolism and influences obesity. (There are other factors that influence obesity as well: genetics, amount of sleep the child gets--less sleep directly correlates to higher obesity rates-- amount of exercise the child gets, amount of TV the child watches, even the amount of good bacteria in the gut, as they are now finding out. Obesity is complex.)

There are certainly ways to influence good food choices beyond force. First of all, breastfed babies _*typically*_ are less picky than formula fed babes. (As a general rule.)

Also, my kids LOVE their veggies, and a large part of that is because we grow tons of yummy, fresh, organic veggies in our garden. When they've planted it and weeded it, they want to take part in eating it.


No one is suggesting forcing kids to eat.

I think that 'clear your plate' is a horrible idea.

BUT - what I object to is allowing kids to opt out of healthy meals and eat snacks for supper.

To me that's RUDE. It's insulting to the person who cooked. It's insulting to the people who like the dish. It's just plain rude.

Maybe I'm more strict that yon are (well - not maybe...) but I'm not going to tolerate that kind of rudeness.

I grew up eating family style from the foods that were presented. I learned how to find things I liked in any meal. I ate a balanced meal and I'm not overweight (neither are my sisters). I have a very healthy attitude towards food and eating. I NEVER ignore my body's full signals. I'm also now willing to try almost anything.


----------



## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

I get balance in dd's diet by looking at food choices (what I buy, what I cook, what she eats) over the course of the day or even over a few days. On the level of the individual meal, I don't think it's that important (at least, I'm not willing to fight her on it). If she decides she wants blueberries at every meal for a couple of days, and wants second helpings of avocado at lunch but skips her turkey, I'm not going to sweat it. I AM going to make sure that I offer different kinds of foods the next day, or at a different meal, to ensure balance (again, this is a toddler--not an 8 year old). The point being: eating carrot sticks and yogurt at dinner time doesn't mean your child isn't getting a balanced diet. Maybe he had a veggie omelet for breakfast and beans and rice for lunch and fruit for a snack. Maybe he's simply not hungry by the time dinner rolls around. Balance is about the overall diet, not an individual meal here or there.


----------



## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
No one is suggesting forcing kids to eat.

I think that 'clear your plate' is a horrible idea.

BUT - what I object to is allowing kids to opt out of healthy meals and eat snacks for supper.

To me that's RUDE. It's insulting to the person who cooked. It's insulting to the people who like the dish. It's just plain rude.

Maybe I'm more strict that yon are (well - not maybe...) but I'm not going to tolerate that kind of rudeness.

I grew up eating family style from the foods that were presented. I learned how to find things I liked in any meal. I ate a balanced meal and I'm not overweight (neither are my sisters). I have a very healthy attitude towards food and eating. I NEVER ignore my body's full signals. I'm also now willing to try almost anything.


See, I don't see a 3yo who is still learning about different ways that food is prepared and presented, as being rude. I would correct him if he said "ew" or "yuck" and I do emphasize table manners. But if he doesn't want to eat, I don't find it rude.

While I was at work today dh made sausage and spaghetti. My body told me that was much too heavy a meal for me today. I just got done working in triple-digit heat. He packed his up to take to work and put the rest in the fridge. He in no way found it rude that I declined his meal.

I still make an effort to have a nice dinnertime, even if we are eating light.


----------



## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Kessed ~ What are you going to do when you're 3 yo doesn't feel like eating dinner?


----------



## madskye (Feb 20, 2006)

I have one 3 +year old, and so far we've been really lucky as far as food goes, she tries most things and isn't particularly opinionated as far as likes or dislikes yet. I make sure every meal has at least one thing I know she likes. And I don't stress about if she eats or not--she'll eat when she's hungry. (And I don't mean that in an "She'll eat what I put in front of her when she's hungry"...more just practically--when she is actually hungry she is much more open to trying things.) If she's hungry later, she can have cheerio's or yogurt or some cheese and crackers. If at that point she still needed a whole meal I think I'd tell her that there are dinner leftovers in the fridge!

I read the thread--and it sounds like a lot of kids aren't hungry at dinner time. Could their afternoon snack or lunchtime be out of sync? Could their mid-day meal be too large if eating dinner is very important to your family/their metabolism so they don't get miserable? DD definitely has a pattern where she won't eat very much, and then the next meal she is ravenous and she eats a big one. I don't force her to eat when she's not hungry, and I think that lets her actually get hungry for the next meal.

Lastly, add me to the League of Yogurt Defenders--I had terrible digestive tract problems till I added yogurt to my diet. It is essential in my house.


----------



## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hoopin' Mama* 
See, I don't see a 3yo who is still learning about different ways that food is prepared and presented, as being rude. I would correct him if he said "ew" or "yuck" and I do emphasize table manners. But if he doesn't want to eat, I don't find it rude.

While I was at work today dh made sausage and spaghetti. My body told me that was much too heavy a meal for me today. I just got done working in triple-digit heat. He packed his up to take to work and put the rest in the fridge. He in no way found it rude that I declined his meal.

I still make an effort to have a nice dinnertime, even if we are eating light.

Why are saying a "3yo"????

I've said MANY times on this thread that I hold this view with kids who are old enough to understand social constructs and have some level of self control - needed to eat things that aren't their favorites... So kids who are at least 4 or 5... And it will depend on the kid.

I haven't ONCE talked about toddlers on this thread - except to say that I do cater to toddlers. I will give my DD some of what we are eating - if she eats it great. If she doesn't then I will make sure to give her something that she will eat so that she's not hungry.


----------



## llamalluv (Aug 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
I'd state that it's exactly the opposite. (And btw, "alteratives" to balanced meals can certainly be other balanced things, as well.)

My dh is a "you eat what I put in front of you" kind of guy. Well, he would be if I weren't here to balance him out. Anyway, he's quite a bit overweight.

I eat what I want, when I want it. And I'm normal weight.

My kids are healthy weights, too.

Anecdotal.

I eat what I want, when I want and my mother never MADE any of us eat lima beans (or anything else we didn't like) and I am SIGNIFICANTLY overweight. I weigh over 280 and I should weigh between 140 and 160 for my height.


----------



## madskye (Feb 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
To me that's RUDE. It's insulting to the person who cooked. It's insulting to the people who like the dish. It's just plain rude.
.

To me that is just giving food a ton of emotional power. It's just food. It's a meal. It's not a comment on your personally making it, or a non-acknowledgement of the blood, sweat, and tears that went into your casserole. They just don't want it.

I had wanted to respond to your post a few pages ago where you mention eating your MIL's brownie's even though she puts nuts in them. Do you really think it is healthy to feel obligated to eat a dessert you don't care for? You don't have to say it's because you don't like nuts--you just politely say "No thank you!"

You could apply that to Hoopin' Mama's post about the 3year old--3-7-12 30 years old--as long as you decline politely, it's fine with me.


----------



## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hoopin' Mama* 
Kessed ~ What are you going to do when you're 3 yo doesn't feel like eating dinner?

Is the 3yo hungry?

If 'no' - then the kid can sit at the table for some length of time - dependent on that child's abilities - and then they can go play. If the 3yo gets hungry later (which may/may not happen with little kids) I will offer them available supper foods. Supper foods are ones that 'stick' - food that will keep a kid full for a decent length of time.

If 'yes' - and the kid is just being picky - they need to try a tiny nibble of what's offered. If they don't like it - then I would probably be amenable to making something quick - but meets my criteria for acceptable supper foods. Yogurt is out - so is a piece of fruit. Those don't 'last' in the tummy. But oatmeal (right now DD eats alot of it and asks for it by name when she's hungry) or while grain pasta/cereal, maybe a sunbutter sandwich on whole wheat bread. Something that will fill her up like supper is supposed to.

As the kid gets older - my willingness to offer alternatives will get less.


----------



## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
Why are saying a "3yo"????
.

Because you have a toddler. I figured your ideas were coming from the realm of the toddler world.
And because that's the only child experience I have.

Alegna has a child my age. We are part of the discussion.

I don't presume to know what my child will be like when he is 6. I do hope he will be less finicky and apt to eat much of what we cook. I'll find out.


----------



## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *madskye* 
To me that is just giving food a ton of emotional power. It's just food. It's a meal. It's not a comment on your personally making it, or a non-acknowledgement of the blood, sweat, and tears that went into your casserole. They just don't want it.

I had wanted to respond to your post a few pages ago where you mention eating your MIL's brownie's even though she puts nuts in them. Do you really think it is healthy to feel obligated to eat a dessert you don't care for? You don't have to say it's because you don't like nuts--you just politely say "No thank you!"

You could apply that to Hoopin' Mama's post about the 3year old--3-7-12--as long as you decline politely, it's fine with me.

You entirely missed the point of my post.

But since you bring it up - there is a social expectation of hospitality and acceptance. When you are a guest - you should accept all reasonable forms of hospitality. It is culturally rude to turn down all refreshments - just as an example. If you don't really want something to drink - you ask/agree to water. If you don't really want to eat - then take a tiny amount and make pleasant conversation.

When my MIL puts in lots of effort and time into making home made brownies - it would be rude of me not to have a small piece just because I don't like nuts and she puts those in. It would hurt her feelings. She's really nice - and she'd never say anything - but it would still be rude.

If I put lots of effort into making something - be it a salad, main course, or dessert - my feelings would be hurt if people didn't at least try it.


----------



## prairiemommy (Sep 25, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
No one is suggesting forcing kids to eat.

I think that 'clear your plate' is a horrible idea.

BUT - what I object to is allowing kids to opt out of healthy meals and eat snacks for supper.

To me that's RUDE. It's insulting to the person who cooked. It's insulting to the people who like the dish. It's just plain rude.

Maybe I'm more strict that yon are (well - not maybe...) but I'm not going to tolerate that kind of rudeness.

I grew up eating family style from the foods that were presented. I learned how to find things I liked in any meal. I ate a balanced meal and I'm not overweight (neither are my sisters). I have a very healthy attitude towards food and eating. I NEVER ignore my body's full signals. I'm also now willing to try almost anything.

Yes, yes and yes! This is exactly how it is here in our house. If a kid of mine says, "I'm not hungry tonight." I'm not going to force a 5 course meal down his throat. They can sit out. If not ill, they still sit with us at the table as supper time is family time. But they are not going to eat incomplete snack after incomplete snack to fill up where a balanced meal should have been.

There is a happy medium between allowing kids to make all their own choices and providing a meal they must eat at all costs, which is what we seem to be forgetting here. Just because I don't offer an alternative to supper doesn't mean that I'm a "eat every scrap on your plate or you won't eat until morning!" kind of person. And I also don't think that anyone would let their child choose to eat only soda crackers for 3 weeks straight because it's what they say they want.

I think though, as Kessed has mentioned, that quite often our views on meals follow our views on child-rearing in general. CL families probably don't make their children try anything they don't want where as more strict families insist the children try the foods.

Unless there is a health issue at stake, so be it.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
No one is suggesting forcing kids to eat.

I think that 'clear your plate' is a horrible idea.

BUT - what I object to is allowing kids to opt out of healthy meals and eat snacks for supper.

To me that's RUDE. It's insulting to the person who cooked. It's insulting to the people who like the dish. It's just plain rude.

Maybe I'm more strict that yon are (well - not maybe...) but I'm not going to tolerate that kind of rudeness.

Okay. What is the alternative? When a child WILL NOT eat whatever dinner is, for whatever reason. And -for the record- are polite about it. They don't say yuck, they don't wrinkle their nose, they just say no thank you. Then later they are hungry. They still won't eat the dinner food, but are truly hungry.

What's the solution look like?

honestly curious.

-Angela


----------



## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hoopin' Mama* 
Because you have a toddler. I figured your ideas were coming from the realm of the toddler world.
And because that's the only child experience I have.

Alegna has a child my age. We are part of the discussion.

I don't presume to know what my child will be like when he is 6. I do hope he will be less finicky and apt to eat much of what we cook. I'll find out.

I find it really insulting that you don't think I should be a part of this discussion because I only have a younger child!

I have been around alot of small children with different parenting methods. I have seen things work, backfire and fail miserably.

I have seen 1 nephew be absolutely F'n rude at other people's houses about food because his parents thought it was 'cute' that he was 'verbalizing' his feelings. "Yuck - that looks like vomit" "Are people really going to eat something that looks like vomit" "Ewwwww - she did it - she ate the vomit!"...

I also rmember the injustice from my own childhood at my cousin getting special meals at my grandparent's house while I politely ate what was served.

Does none of that count?

I babysit 2yo twins and a 4.5yo. Does that count? I make 2 meals and multiple snacks everyday that they eat/don't eat. I see that a 4.5yo is fundamentally a different creature to a 2yo - and I have different expectations for them.

I happily make a big pot of oatmeal every morning - and the toddlers are welcome to have that instead of lunch or any snack is they choose. The 4.5yo - since I normally ask her what she wants for lunch - she has to at least try what I made before she can switch to oatmeal. But even over this summer her ability to eat something that maybe isn't exactly the same as her mother's has grown. She's pretty close to where, if she was my own child, I would start requiring her to eat what I made for supper. But she's not my child - so I won't for quite some time.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *madskye* 
To me that is just giving food a ton of emotional power. It's just food. It's a meal. It's not a comment on your personally making it, or a non-acknowledgement of the blood, sweat, and tears that went into your casserole. They just don't want it.

I had wanted to respond to your post a few pages ago where you mention eating your MIL's brownie's even though she puts nuts in them. Do you really think it is healthy to feel obligated to eat a dessert you don't care for? You don't have to say it's because you don't like nuts--you just politely say "No thank you!"

You could apply that to Hoopin' Mama's post about the 3year old--3-7-12 30 years old--as long as you decline politely, it's fine with me.









:










-Angela


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
Is the 3yo hungry?

If 'no' - then the kid can sit at the table for some length of time - dependent on that child's abilities - and then they can go play. If the 3yo gets hungry later (which may/may not happen with little kids) I will offer them available supper foods. Supper foods are ones that 'stick' - food that will keep a kid full for a decent length of time.

If 'yes' - and the kid is just being picky - they need to try a tiny nibble of what's offered. If they don't like it - then I would probably be amenable to making something quick - but meets my criteria for acceptable supper foods. Yogurt is out - so is a piece of fruit. Those don't 'last' in the tummy. But oatmeal (right now DD eats alot of it and asks for it by name when she's hungry) or while grain pasta/cereal, maybe a sunbutter sandwich on whole wheat bread. Something that will fill her up like supper is supposed to.

As the kid gets older - my willingness to offer alternatives will get less.









Pasta or cereal is a more filling choice than yogurt?

Whatever works for you









Not sure what you mean by the sit at the table part. Are you saying make them stay there? When they don't want to eat?

And what will you do if they will NOT take a nibble?

-Angela


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
You entirely missed the point of my post.

But since you bring it up - there is a social expectation of hospitality and acceptance. When you are a guest - you should accept all reasonable forms of hospitality. It is culturally rude to turn down all refreshments - just as an example. If you don't really want something to drink - you ask/agree to water. If you don't really want to eat - then take a tiny amount and make pleasant conversation.

When my MIL puts in lots of effort and time into making home made brownies - it would be rude of me not to have a small piece just because I don't like nuts and she puts those in. It would hurt her feelings. She's really nice - and she'd never say anything - but it would still be rude.

If I put lots of effort into making something - be it a salad, main course, or dessert - my feelings would be hurt if people didn't at least try it.

I disagree. I think there is nothing rude about saying- no thanks or we just ate, or I'm not hungry thanks. Or I'm on a diet (not me, but hey...) or I'm not eating chocolate this month or WHATEVER.

It *is* perfectly okay to refuse food or drink POLITELY if you don't want it.

-Angela


----------



## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Okay. What is the alternative? When a child WILL NOT eat whatever dinner is, for whatever reason. And -for the record- are polite about it. They don't say yuck, they don't wrinkle their nose, they just say no thank you. Then later they are hungry. They still won't eat the dinner food, but are truly hungry.

What's the solution look like?

honestly curious.

-Angela

For a child who is old enough to follow reasonable request, and understand basic cause and effect? So - let's say 6? Or let's add that the kid doesn't have sensory issues or any other medical reason to be picky.

I have 2 repsonses:

1) If it's a mixed meal (like a stir-fry or chilli) and the kid truly doesn't like something that can't be picked out - then I would let them have something else. It wouldn't be a fun treat type thing - it would be another solid meal option.

2a) If there is a wide varried array of things to pick and choose from - and for some reason the kid is being ornery or picky or something _today I would wait for a while. If after sitting through supper, and then going off and playing the kid really wanted a good snack before bed - I would be 'persuaded' to make an exception and help the kid get a PB&J sandwich.

2b) If this became a habit - and it felt like the kid was refusing perfectly good food in order to get the alternative - then I would probably try a wait and see. It won't kill a child to go to bed hungry once. It's not my first choice. But - IMO, it's not the end of the world. We'd probably talk about it ALOT the next day and see if we could come to some sort of comprimise.

2c) If it was a habit - and it seemed like it was turning into a power struggle: then I would require the kid to sit at the table with us and pick from what was available. After the meal was over - then the child could probably make him/herself something from an acceptable set of alternatives. It wouldn't be PB&J every night. It would be something healthy.

And if it really persisted - then the kid could use his time on a weekend to make himself his own freezer meals and eat those.

I'm still not going to make more than one meal._


----------



## Hatteras Gal (Jun 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jackson'smama* 
My ds (who USED to be the kid who thought raisins were candy and the best thing at mcdonald's was an unsweetened iced tea and bag of apples WITHOUT the caramel dip) has a thing of refusing dinner with "i'm not hungry" or "it's yucky" and then being starving about an hour later when he goes to bed and he demands a snack.
if you have whatever you would deem a "picky eater" how do you handle when they don't eat what you've prepared? giving in and making a snack seems to be a green light for getting out of eating a "yucky" dinner that he wouldn't even taste, but as a mama, i hate to 'send him to bed hungry'.
btw, he's 3.75 years old.

Dd1 (6) is my picky eater. If dinner is something she hasn't had before, I ask her to try it first. If it's something I know she doesn't like (tacos, for instance), I make her a cheese quesadilla. If it's things she likes but isn't particularly interested in, I tell her to eat until she feels full if she's hungry and if she isn't hungry, I can save her plate for later.

I won't cook her something separate after the fact (like deciding she doesn't want the grilled chicken, broccoli and rice that is dinner) but she is free to make herself a bagel, have some fruit, yoghurt, get a bowl of cereal, have some sort of leftover, etc in that vein.

Breakfast and lunch are more free-for-all where we all can have what we want. If they want cereal, okay. If one of them wants a bagel and the other a scrambled egg, okay. If one of them wants a grilled cheese and the other wants pb&j, okay. But for dinner, I make one thing. I take everyone's likes and dislikes into account but I can't please all of us every single meal- dd1 doesn't like potatoes, so when we have potatoes, I put one on her plate but she'll also get a slice of butter bread.

Tonight we're having steak, potatoes, and green beans. Dd1 doesn't particluarly love steak, but she eats it w/o too much complaint. She probably won't eat the potato I give her but she'll have a piece of butter bread and she love green beans. I don't give her more than I think she can eat on her plate; she gets overwhelmed if I do. If she finishes what's on her plate, she can have more. Then she gets dessert. Tonight that will be a fudge pop. Before bed she'll want a snack. That will be cereal with milk and some fruit, crackers with cream cheese, toast, a bagel with cream cheese. If she doesn't finish a plate that has food I know she likes, she can't have dessert (I am not by the book strict about this, I take it on a case by case basis, often she'll have her replacement and then she has dessert). But she can still have a snack later on before bedtime.

One thing I will never do is have my kids go to bed hungry. My picky eater is also my small child (6 yo, 37 lbs) so when it comes down to it, I'd rather have her eat than not, regardless of whether she cleaned her plate at dinner. If she wants something an hour later before bed, she can have it, as long as it's got some sort of nutritional value.


----------



## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 

Not sure what you mean by the sit at the table part. Are you saying make them stay there? When they don't want to eat?

And what will you do if they will NOT take a nibble?

-Angela

I mean they will sit at the table.

Supper is about FAR MORE than eating to my family. It's about visiting and connecting. It's about spending time away from distractions to talk about our lives and spend time with each other.

Growing up we used to visit while supper was being made - then eat all together. It was really nice.

And if they won't take a nibble - fine. They won't take a nibble. But - I'm very unlikely to do something extra for them like make them something else to eat - if they won't do something for me like take a tiny nibble of each thing.

My job is to offer healthy food in a reasonable quantity. Their job is to eat it. I'm not going to worry about it - unless there's a reason to. If my kid never eats - then I worry. If my kid overeats - then I worry. But there's alot of middle ground.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
For a child who is old enough to follow reasonable request, and understand basic cause and effect? So - let's say 6? Or let's add that the kid doesn't have sensory issues or any other medical reason to be picky.

I have 2 repsonses:

1) If it's a mixed meal (like a stir-fry or chilli) and the kid truly doesn't like something that can't be picked out - then I would let them have something else. It wouldn't be a fun treat type thing - it would be another solid meal option.

2a) If there is a wide varried array of things to pick and choose from - and for some reason the kid is being ornery or picky or something _today I would wait for a while. If after sitting through supper, and then going off and playing the kid really wanted a good snack before bed - I would be 'persuaded' to make an exception and help the kid get a PB&J sandwich.

2b) If this became a habit - and it felt like the kid was refusing perfectly good food in order to get the alternative - then I would probably try a wait and see. It won't kill a child to go to bed hungry once. It's not my first choice. But - IMO, it's not the end of the world. We'd probably talk about it ALOT the next day and see if we could come to some sort of comprimise.

2c) If it was a habit - and it seemed like it was turning into a power struggle: then I would require the kid to sit at the table with us and pick from what was available. After the meal was over - then the child could probably make him/herself something from an acceptable set of alternatives. It wouldn't be PB&J every night. It would be something healthy.

And if it really persisted - then the kid could use his time on a weekend to make himself his own freezer meals and eat those.

I'm still not going to make more than one meal.
_
_
_
_
Thanks. That gives me a better idea where you're coming from.

I think there are a couple of things that are worth saying here.

1. This will vary by age. (which you've mentioned)

and

2. Kids are different. SOME kids are fine with -do this- (ie. take one bite etc) Some kids will make anything a power struggle if you lock your knees and go authoritarian on them. If that's how you want to live your life and run your family - that's your choice. Me? I don't like conflict that much.

-Angela_


----------



## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
I find it really insulting that you don't think I should be a part of this discussion because I only have a younger child!

What are you talking about?







:
I never said that. You asked why I kept talking about 3 yo. I was responding. I thought we were talking about all age groups, but my only anectodal experience is with a 3yo.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
I mean they will sit at the table.

Supper is about FAR MORE than eating to my family. It's about visiting and connecting. It's about spending time away from distractions to talk about our lives and spend time with each other.

Growing up we used to visit while supper was being made - then eat all together. It was really nice.

And if they won't take a nibble - fine. They won't take a nibble. But - I'm very unlikely to do something extra for them like make them something else to eat - if they won't do something for me like take a tiny nibble of each thing.

My job is to offer healthy food in a reasonable quantity. Their job is to eat it. I'm not going to worry about it - unless there's a reason to. If my kid never eats - then I worry. If my kid overeats - then I worry. But there's alot of middle ground.

Cool on the table. I'm all about meals being about more than food. I wanted to make sure we weren't talking stay at the table after everyone has left.

The nibble thing- this I have issue with. You keep making individual food choices of another individual- about YOU. It's not about you. (well, it could be, but it could NOT be also) When my dd won't try something it has nothing in the world to do with me. Nothing. To turn it around and put that emotional baggage on it is absurd at best. DEFINITELY has the potential to set up a less than ideal relationship with food.

I want my kids to eat because it's enjoyable and good for their bodies. Not to make mama or anyone else happy.

-Angela


----------



## meganeilis (Mar 12, 2006)

Not every decision we make should be dictated by what we want as an individual. Sometimes we do things because we are part of a family unit and it's the right thing to do. I'm sure that my DS doesn't always have a deep seated desire to share his toys with his cousins, but he does, because giving a little bit of yourself comes back to you. This attitude of being an individual at all costs is bound to catch up with kids eventually, and make them very lonely adults.


----------



## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Cool on the table. I'm all about meals being about more than food. I wanted to make sure we weren't talking stay at the table after everyone has left.

The nibble thing- this I have issue with. You keep making individual food choices of another individual- about YOU. It's not about you. (well, it could be, but it could NOT be also) When my dd won't try something it has nothing in the world to do with me. Nothing. To turn it around and put that emotional baggage on it is absurd at best. DEFINITELY has the potential to set up a less than ideal relationship with food.

I want my kids to eat because it's enjoyable and good for their bodies. Not to make mama or anyone else happy.

-Angela

Thanks for saying what I seem to have trouble getting across.

We have so much emotional baggage with food in this society.

In this house, we are trying to avoid it.

I will not tolerate ds sitting at a dinner table saying the food tasted like vomit.

I will tolerate politely declining something in my home and among family and friends.

As an honored guest in someone's home in Mexico, I forced myself to eat spam. I did not know these people prior to that day and they were poor. These kind of situations do not occur too often. I will also teach ds about these kinds of situations.


----------



## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meganeilis* 
Not every decision we make should be dictated by what we want as an individual. Sometimes we do things because we are part of a family unit and it's the right thing to do. I'm sure that my DS doesn't always have a deep seated desire to share his toys with his cousins, but he does, because giving a little bit of yourself comes back to you. This attitude of being an individual at all costs is bound to catch up with kids eventually, and make them very lonely adults.

I really don't see the correlation between not making food a power struggle frought with emotional baggage, and teaching my child to be an individual at all costs and not to give an inch.


----------



## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Thanks. That gives me a better idea where you're coming from.

I think there are a couple of things that are worth saying here.

1. This will vary by age. (which you've mentioned)

and

2. Kids are different. SOME kids are fine with -do this- (ie. take one bite etc) Some kids will make anything a power struggle if you lock your knees and go authoritarian on them. If that's how you want to live your life and run your family - that's your choice. Me? I don't like conflict that much.

-Angela

I didn't say that I will lock my knees and go authoritarian on them...

There is a HUGE difference between going authoritarian and having some basic rules.

It is possible to have rules and enforce them without making it a power struggle. I worked at a summer camp for 4 summers. We had 150 new kids every 2 weeks. There is no way you can force those kids to eat anything.

But there were no special meals. There wasn't anyone keeping track of what kids ate. It wasn't possible. A meal was served - always in as many pieces as possible - so pasta, sauce and meat would be in 3 bowls so that kids had options. It would probably be served with bread and butter and a salad. That would be it. If kids didn't eat it for supper - they could wait until bedtime snack - and have their 1 glass of juice and 1 cookie...

None of the kids really seemed to mind. Many were surprised that there weren't more options. But they were free to eat/not eat as they wished. No care packages from home (we were nut 'aware' but that meant no outside food). Candy was limited to their tuck shop runs - and then it was like $2 every 3 days or something like that. So not enough to live on.

It was my experience that when kids sat around a table watching other people at the food, they would often end up trying something. But all campers were expected to sit at a table during meal time - it wasn't a free for all - food was served family style with 2 adults and 6 kids at each table. And it was pretty cool to see the number of kids who ended up trying things they didn't think they'd like - and then liking them. It was cool.

One cook used to make this really yummy strawberry spinach salad. One kid (notoriously picky) ate some and asked me what kind of lettuce it was because he loved it... I told him it was spinach and the look on his face was priceless. (Please note - if he'd asked before he ate any - I would have told him the truth. He wasn't tricked into eating it or anything).

And - in my 4 years working at that camp there was only 1 camper who ended up needed some sort of medical attention because she wouldn't eat. And, if I recall correctly - after this all came to light - she spent her rest hour in the kitchen helping the cooks put together her supper for that night and her lunch for the next day (breakfast was find with her).


----------



## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meganeilis* 
Not every decision we make should be dictated by what we want as an individual. Sometimes we do things because we are part of a family unit and it's the right thing to do. I'm sure that my DS doesn't always have a deep seated desire to share his toys with his cousins, but he does, because giving a little bit of yourself comes back to you. This attitude of being an individual at all costs is bound to catch up with kids eventually, and make them very lonely adults.

Great post!


----------



## tuansprincess (Oct 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
No one is suggesting forcing kids to eat.

I think that 'clear your plate' is a horrible idea.

BUT - what I object to is allowing kids to opt out of healthy meals and eat snacks for supper.

To me that's RUDE. It's insulting to the person who cooked. It's insulting to the people who like the dish. It's just plain rude.

Maybe I'm more strict that yon are (well - not maybe...) but I'm not going to tolerate that kind of rudeness.

I grew up eating family style from the foods that were presented. I learned how to find things I liked in any meal. I ate a balanced meal and I'm not overweight (neither are my sisters). I have a very healthy attitude towards food and eating. I NEVER ignore my body's full signals. I'm also now willing to try almost anything.

This post is full of "I" and "me". You are making this very personal and it is not!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
For a child who is old enough to follow reasonable request, and understand basic cause and effect? So - let's say 6? Or let's add that the kid doesn't have sensory issues or any other medical reason to be picky.

I have 2 repsonses:

1) If it's a mixed meal (like a stir-fry or chilli) and the kid truly doesn't like something that can't be picked out - then I would let them have something else. It wouldn't be a fun treat type thing - it would be another solid meal option.

2a) If there is a wide varried array of things to pick and choose from - and for some reason the kid is being ornery or picky or something _today I would wait for a while. If after sitting through supper, and then going off and playing the kid really wanted a good snack before bed - I would be 'persuaded' to make an exception and help the kid get a PB&J sandwich.

2b) If this became a habit - and it felt like the kid was refusing perfectly good food in order to get the alternative - then I would probably try a wait and see. It won't kill a child to go to bed hungry once. It's not my first choice. But - IMO, it's not the end of the world. We'd probably talk about it ALOT the next day and see if we could come to some sort of comprimise.

2c) If it was a habit - and it seemed like it was turning into a power struggle: then I would require the kid to sit at the table with us and pick from what was available. After the meal was over - then the child could probably make him/herself something from an acceptable set of alternatives. It wouldn't be PB&J every night. It would be something healthy.

And if it really persisted - then the kid could use his time on a weekend to make himself his own freezer meals and eat those.

I'm still not going to make more than one meal.
_
_
_
_
All I can say is that your extremely authoritative take on parenting and, in this example, food is so far from what I feel is healthy._


----------



## meganeilis (Mar 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hoopin' Mama* 
I really don't see the correlation between not making food a power struggle frought with emotional baggage, and teaching my child to be an individual at all costs and not to give an inch.

Not asking a child to take a nibble before dismissing perfectly good food is loading on just as much emotional baggage as making that a standing request at the dinner table. Anectodotal example: My BIL is a 35 year old picky eater. He gets downright offended when he shows up at a family function and there is nothing that he deems acceptable to eat. It's gotten to the point where he sees someone's inability to bend over backwards to suit his tastes as a lack of consideration for his feelings (no, he's not vegan or vegetarian, just a self-involved turd). Because of this, he gets invites less than other relatives, it's just not worth tip toeing around trying to find things he won't object to.

Expecting your kids to be flexible, is not being inflexible yourself. And the argument that having some minor expectations for your family means you saddling your kids with _emotional baggage_, well that seems to be two way street. Placing so much importance on never eating anything that you don't love doesn't seem very healthy either.


----------



## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meganeilis* 
Not every decision we make should be dictated by what we want as an individual. Sometimes we do things because we are part of a family unit and it's the right thing to do. I'm sure that my DS doesn't always have a deep seated desire to share his toys with his cousins, but he does, because giving a little bit of yourself comes back to you. This attitude of being an individual at all costs is bound to catch up with kids eventually, and make them very lonely adults.

In my family, possible because of my past, your responsibility to the family ends at what you put in your body, or when you take off your clothes. Food is cultural, sure, but I am happy to have the role of PRESENTING food, not ENFORCING it.

And while we have funds for it, alternatives will be available. I'm an adult who travels for business and has family and friends of all different cultures, and while there definitely are cultures where it is rude to refuse food, I have always found a pretty happy medium, without always having to eat the tongue.

I think it is entirely possible to participate in family and society and still maintain personal boundaries. I also think that it is possible to be grateful without consuming. As an example, I do not always choose to drink. Although it's customary to toast the bride, etc., I have sometimes not had the alcohol. Funny how we want our kids to be able to say no in certain social situation and not others. Although I think a lot is dependent on personality and situations, I guess I kind of hope that my son will refuse the beer on the night he's driving, y'know?


----------



## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meganeilis* 
Not asking a child to take a nibble before dismissing perfectly good food is loading on just as much emotional baggage as making that a standing request at the dinner table. Anectodotal example: My BIL is a 35 year old picky eater. He gets downright offended when he shows up at a family function and there is nothing that he deems acceptable to eat. It's gotten to the point where he sees someone's inability to bend over backwards to suit his tastes as a lack of consideration for his feelings (no, he's not vegan or vegetarian, just a self-involved turd). Because of this, he gets invites less than other relatives, it's just not worth tip toeing around trying to find things he won't object to.

Expecting your kids to be flexible, is not being inflexible yourself. And the argument that having some minor expectations for your family means you saddling your kids with _emotional baggage_, well that seems to be two way street. Placing so much importance on never eating anything that you don't love doesn't seem very healthy either.

I'm guessing this is not his only area of rudeness.

Picky eating doesn't seem to run in my family much but my BIL is about as picky as you can get. He has never, ever been rude about it. He eats before he goes somewhere. It's kind of nice to not have to stress about it.


----------



## meganeilis (Mar 12, 2006)

Really? Because I want my son to never turn down the offer of a beer or a shot of whiskey. Safety be damned right?


----------



## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
In my family, possible because of my past, your responsibility to the family ends at what you put in your body, or when you take off your clothes. Food is cultural, sure, but I am happy to have the role of PRESENTING food, not ENFORCING it.

And while we have funds for it, alternatives will be available. I'm an adult who travels for business and has family and friends of all different cultures, and while there definitely are cultures where it is rude to refuse food, I have always found a pretty happy medium, without always having to eat the tongue.

I think it is entirely possible to participate in family and society and still maintain personal boundaries. I also think that it is possible to be grateful without consuming. As an example, I do not always choose to drink. Although it's customary to toast the bride, etc., I have sometimes not had the alcohol. Funny how we want our kids to be able to say no in certain social situation and not others. Although I think a lot is dependent on personality and situations, I guess I kind of hope that my son will refuse the beer on the night he's driving, y'know?


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meganeilis* 
Not asking a child to take a nibble before dismissing perfectly good food is loading on just as much emotional baggage as making that a standing request at the dinner table. Anectodotal example: My BIL is a 35 year old picky eater. He gets downright offended when he shows up at a family function and there is nothing that he deems acceptable to eat. It's gotten to the point where he sees someone's inability to bend over backwards to suit his tastes as a lack of consideration for his feelings (no, he's not vegan or vegetarian, just a self-involved turd). Because of this, he gets invites less than other relatives, it's just not worth tip toeing around trying to find things he won't object to.

Expecting your kids to be flexible, is not being inflexible yourself. And the argument that having some minor expectations for your family means you saddling your kids with _emotional baggage_, well that seems to be two way street. Placing so much importance on never eating anything that you don't love doesn't seem very healthy either.

Asking kids to be flexible is one thing. I *ask* dd to try things. She declines. At that point I can choose to make it a big deal or not. Perhaps she will get more flexible with age. I hope so, but I'm not betting the house.

-Angela


----------



## vegiemum (Jul 16, 2008)

i hope it's okay that I jump in...
my ds is very picky. very very picky. After 5 years I have given up trying to cook for him. I provide the food he eats. the same darned things, every day! Luckily, the food he does like are good foods (well, except gummy worms!). He eats raw carrots, broccoli and cucumbers. EVERY DAY for his camp lunch he takes a sandwhich w/ mixed baby greens, american cheese and mayo. has an apple and banana. a pudding. a yogurt smoothie. some crackers.

I just gave up pushing diversity... and the arguing has stopped!


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
In my family, possible because of my past, your responsibility to the family ends at what you put in your body, or when you take off your clothes. Food is cultural, sure, but I am happy to have the role of PRESENTING food, not ENFORCING it.

And while we have funds for it, alternatives will be available. I'm an adult who travels for business and has family and friends of all different cultures, and while there definitely are cultures where it is rude to refuse food, I have always found a pretty happy medium, without always having to eat the tongue.

I think it is entirely possible to participate in family and society and still maintain personal boundaries. I also think that it is possible to be grateful without consuming. As an example, I do not always choose to drink. Although it's customary to toast the bride, etc., I have sometimes not had the alcohol. Funny how we want our kids to be able to say no in certain social situation and not others. Although I think a lot is dependent on personality and situations, I guess I kind of hope that my son will refuse the beer on the night he's driving, y'know?

Very well put. My thoughts exactly.

-Angela


----------



## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meganeilis* 
Not asking a child to take a nibble before dismissing perfectly good food is loading on just as much emotional baggage as making that a standing request at the dinner table. Anectodotal example: My BIL is a 35 year old picky eater. He gets downright offended when he shows up at a family function and there is nothing that he deems acceptable to eat. It's gotten to the point where he sees someone's inability to bend over backwards to suit his tastes as a lack of consideration for his feelings (no, he's not vegan or vegetarian, just a self-involved turd). Because of this, he gets invites less than other relatives, it's just not worth tip toeing around trying to find things he won't object to.

Expecting your kids to be flexible, is not being inflexible yourself. And the argument that having some minor expectations for your family means you saddling your kids with _emotional baggage_, well that seems to be two way street. Placing so much importance on never eating anything that you don't love doesn't seem very healthy either.


Oh, I do agree with asking to take a bite.

And I do hope my child won't grow up to be a self-involved turd









I'm not saying I won't eat something I don't love. Not every bite that goes in my mouth needs to be a superb gastronomical experience.

What I generally won't do is eat when I don't want to eat or politely decline something that does not appeal to me b/c it is overfilling, too heavy, too spicy, too processed, etc. Especially in my own home. I will have a bite of bday cake, etc. in the spirit of celebration or taste my friends fabulous flan ( I don't much like flan, but I know enough to know hers is fabulous).


----------



## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meganeilis* 
Really? Because I want my son to never turn down the offer of a beer or a shot of whiskey. Safety be damned right?









ETA:

Sorry - lost track of usernames... You were agreeing with me earlier. I've had a long day and missed the sarcasm.


----------



## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

Out at other people's houses is different than at home too. I mean, I would like my children to be polite, and I try to be polite at other's homes, so we might eat a few bites of something we don't like so we're not sitting with empty plates. I would NEVER ask a host to make me something else (I let them know about allergies and vegetarianism in advance though)... and certainly would never help myself to something else in their kitchen. (I did have a friend once who did that; ate the last of my birthday chocolates when I'd offered him a drink and he said "sure, I can get it" and found the chocolates when he got a glass. Yeah, I think that was rude.)

It's just a different approach though, if you consider meal making to be someone's task for the family, then ignoring their food and making your own day after day is pretty rude. If you consider it more like each person fends for themselves, and if you happen to like what someone else is making, you ask to be included; then it's not rude to make something else. I follow the first model, but it is kind of fifties; it can be patriarchal I suppose. The second model I think of as very roomate-ish. Pros and cons either way.


----------



## FoxintheSnow (May 11, 2004)

In my house as a child supper was supper, if you didnt like it- too bad. I had to take a few bites (usually hide a few in my napkin) and then be excused, usually sneak into the kitchen after bedtime starving and looking for a snack. As an adult, Im a really picky eater. When I first went out on my own I overindulged in foods I like because I was free to have them. Now Im more conscious of it, but for a while it was a problem.


----------



## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

It's interesting how people are so invested in this choice. My mom had the "supper is supper and you will eat it" for her first three kids, then she had me.







If I don't want to eat something there is no making me eat it. I will not eat for days out of stubbornness. (Yeah, that Mommie Dearest scene--we did that. Once.) If the texture of a food bothers me I will probably vomit it back all over the table.

It didn't take too terribly long before she decided that it was ok that I only ate a few things and she always had them in the fridge. (She would scramble up a dozen eggs at a time and put them in the fridge so I could graze at will; ooooh and mashed potatoes. I could still live on mashed potatoes.) I didn't eat vegetables until I was much older.

At this point I am still gradually trying to expand my diet, but I do it because I want to. The food rules in my house are still hypothetical (Cause I can't imagine her turning down breast milk.







) but I imagine that I will be pretty flexible. I will encourage her to try food, but if she doesn't want it I'm not going to enforce it. My husband and I sometimes have different meals, but not usually. I imagine things will change when we have three or four or five people eating so it is a bigger production.


----------



## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 

BUT - what I object to is allowing kids to opt out of healthy meals and eat snacks for supper.

To me that's RUDE. It's insulting to the person who cooked. It's insulting to the people who like the dish. It's just plain rude.

.


Wow, this thread goes fast. A girl can't hardly go to the dentist around here!!

Anyway, are you objecting to it merely at your house, or at everyone's house? Are you just continuing to explain how things work for you and your family, or are you saying that those of us who disagree with you should change our ways, as well?

Because it's not rude at our house.

I can't find who to quote, but somebody else said that food isn't an emotional issue for them. That's the case for me, too. I'm not emotionally wrapped up in it, even if I spent a long time cooking something. It's just food to me. In general, I just eat to live, not live to eat.

It relates to how I parent in other realms, as well. I allow lots of choices, where I can fit them in. I think about what kind of relationship I want with my kids 20 years from now, not just want I want them to do today.

I remember how my parents forced food on me (or insisted, or didn't allow me anything else to eat, or however you want to put it) and how that permanently changed how I feel about them (of course there are other aspects of their parenting that come into play here, too.)

I think about karma and gratitude and how I want to appreciate life and the abundance I currently have, including the wide array of good foods I could give my kids and the fact that I have healthy children to feed in the first place.

So, I think about all of that, and I just can't make it a power struggle. I just can't.

I respect that your family and parenting and background and choices are different.

So, how 'bout you and I just don't invite each other over for dinner. -K-?


----------



## macca (Jan 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
No one is suggesting forcing kids to eat.

I think that 'clear your plate' is a horrible idea.

BUT - what I object to is allowing kids to opt out of healthy meals and eat snacks for supper.

To me that's RUDE. It's insulting to the person who cooked. It's insulting to the people who like the dish. It's just plain rude.

Maybe I'm more strict that yon are (well - not maybe...) but I'm not going to tolerate that kind of rudeness.



My DD is a funny one. She hates "pressure" to eat, but will quite happily do it if left alone. We went through a stage where she wouldn't touch anything on her plate and would want a sandwich or yoghurt instead of dinner. I never made a big deal of it, just slapped something together and DH and I continued with our own meal. The only rule was, DD had to sit at the table with us to eat, which she was quite happy to do. After a while, she took a natural interest in what we were eating and now eats the same meal 9 times out of 10 - and BEGS for green beans!!!









Then, when we go to extended family member's homes and there's something unusual, the host will often do the hovering thing and keep pressuring DD to try some. DD HATES being put on the spot like that and it becomes a power struggle. As soon as adults back off and just let her enjoy the meal at her own pace, she usually relishes every mouthful and even asks for more.


----------



## macca (Jan 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
I can't find who to quote, but somebody else said that food isn't an emotional issue for them. That's the case for me, too. I'm not emotionally wrapped up in it, even if I spent a long time cooking something. It's just food to me. In general, I just eat to live, not live to eat.


----------



## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llamalluv* 
Anecdotal.


I never claimed it wasn't.


----------



## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *prairiemommy* 

I think though, as Kessed has mentioned, that quite often our views on meals follow our views on child-rearing in general. CL families probably don't make their children try anything they don't want where as more strict families insist the children try the foods.


I prefer the terms "laissez-faire" or "Taking Children Seriously" over "Child-Led." (CL). The children aren't _*leading*_ our family, but their wishes matter and we take them seriously.

Small example: Ds will only use strawberry-flavored toothpaste (Tom's of Maine). Dd prefers cinnamon flavored. Dh and I like mint. So, we have three different types of toothpaste. A little more complicated that just using one, but not a huge deal so we buy three different types. They are happy, and we're happy they're brushing their teeth.


----------



## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *macca* 

















:

(I've never been clapped for TWICE in one thread! So, thank you to you and Alegna for giving me a round of applause. --or anyone else I might have missed who clapped for me, or wants to clap for me???!







-- Now back to the regularly-scheduled discussion.)


----------



## Ziggysmama (Dec 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 







:

(I've never been clapped for TWICE in one thread! So, thank you to you and Alegna for giving me a round of applause. --or anyone else I might have missed who clapped for me, or wants to clap for me???!







-- Now back to the regularly-scheduled discussion.)









tee hee hee


----------



## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ziggysmama* 







tee hee hee

























PS. Love your sig.


----------



## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

What an interesting discussion. Kessed, I don't know whether to hope you have a kid one who does well with your rules or is like my dd1 who made me rethink a lot of things I thought about kids.

My dd1 has interesting eating habits. She's not really "picky" per se, but she does have a lot of ideas about what she will and won't eat and sometimes they radically change from day to day and week to week. FWIW, we don't really do consensual living (I thought that's what the CL was for), but we don't really have "rules". DH is not a rule kinda guy and I'm not a rule kinda gal and, boy oh boy, is dd1 not a rule kinda girl. I would never force her to eat (even take one bite). That is so setting up an non-constructive power struggle dynamic with this particular (and she is particular) kid. I recognize that the same thing is not the case for everyone else's kid, but a lot of times other folks (out there in IRL-world) don't always see that what works for them doesn't always work for everyone else. We've run into that more than once in situations involving dd1 just because she's got quite a different temperament from your average kid.

I think that a lot of this food discussion is really about control and respect, isn't it? I totally agree with the moms here (and I think that's just about everyone who'd posted) that rudeness at the supper table ("that's gross", "yuck" "ewwwww") is not okay. I don't agree that it's rude to have different food, though. I mean if I went to a friend's house for a dinner party and got up to go make myself a pb&j, well, yeah that's way rude







. If I'm in my own house, though, and I don't like something that's being served I think it's perfectly okay for me to say "oh thanks, but I'm not up for a steak tonight-i'll just fix a salad"







.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
Yogurt is out - so is a piece of fruit. Those don't 'last' in the tummy. But oatmeal (right now DD eats alot of it and asks for it by name when she's hungry) or while grain pasta/cereal, maybe a sunbutter sandwich on whole wheat bread. Something that will fill her up like supper is supposed to.

That's funny! I just quoted this because my DH always says that oatmeal just doesn't last for him and he's always hungry an hour later. YMMV, of course, which is what I think this whole discussion is about.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
When you are a guest - you should accept all reasonable forms of hospitality. It is culturally rude to turn down all refreshments - just as an example. If you don't really want something to drink - you ask/agree to water. If you don't really want to eat - then take a tiny amount and make pleasant conversation.

I've never heard of this! I was raised by very traditional Southern parents (who are probably as old as a lot of y'all's great grandmas - they're both 82, fwiw) and I would certainly refuse a drink if I wasn't thirsty. "No thanks" is a perfectly appropriate and polite response. If I was invited for dinner and didn't eat (unless I had health problems) that would be very very rude. I don't think it's rude to refuse food on a stopping by to chat visit, though. Maybe it is in your culture, but not mine and I don't think in the larger context of American culture, either. However, I do think it might possibly border on rude not to offer a guest a drink (of water, etc). At any rate certainly it's more polite to offer, but I would never ever be offended if a guest declined something to drink or eat if I hadn't invited them for a meal.


----------



## littleaugustbaby (Jun 27, 2003)

Kessed, that might be how it works in your family, but for a lot of people, it's just not the way it is.

Generally, we eat a big breakfast and a big lunch, and a couple of snacks during the day, and by dinnertime, nobody's really hungry, so we eat pretty lightly. Sometimes we even skip dinner, or just have a snack. Most of the time, our dinners are really light, like a salad (or in DD's case some fruit and/or yogurt, or a small bowl of dry cereal).

I guess I don't see the problem with having a 'snack' item for dinner if that's all you're hungry for. If my DD is not all that hungry and would rather have an apple at dinnertime than a meal, then that's fine. I'm not going to force her to eat something more filling if she isn't hungry for it -- I think that is far more dangerous and much more conducive to obesity. And if she decides in an hour or two that she's hungry again, then she can have another small snack before bed.


----------



## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

So i thought DD would be reluctant to try sweet potatoes... uh, no, she'll apparently taste them before dinner and then try to keep the bowl of them for herself. DH and I had to talk to her to get her to share a few with DS. Well, that's why "build your own variety of whatever" meals are my fave!


----------



## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
I prefer the terms "laissez-faire" or "Taking Children Seriously" over "Child-Led." (CL). The children aren't _*leading*_ our family, but their wishes matter and we take them seriously.

Doesn't CL stand for consensual living?


----------



## orangecanoe (Aug 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meganeilis* 
Not asking a child to take a nibble before dismissing perfectly good food is loading on just as much emotional baggage as making that a standing request at the dinner table. Anectodotal example: My BIL is a 35 year old picky eater. He gets downright offended when he shows up at a family function and there is nothing that he deems acceptable to eat. It's gotten to the point where he sees someone's inability to bend over backwards to suit his tastes as a lack of consideration for his feelings (no, he's not vegan or vegetarian, just a self-involved turd). Because of this, he gets invites less than other relatives, it's just not worth tip toeing around trying to find things he won't object to.

Expecting your kids to be flexible, is not being inflexible yourself. And the argument that having some minor expectations for your family means you saddling your kids with _emotional baggage_, well that seems to be two way street. Placing so much importance on never eating anything that you don't love doesn't seem very healthy either.









:

I have early teen nephews/nieces who have a relative running to Subway for them or cracking a can of beefaroni at family gatherings---even Thanksgiving.


----------



## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
Doesn't CL stand for consensual living?

I guess. I thought it stood for "child-led," as in "CL weaning," which I see around MDC a lot.


----------



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

As long as we're all being anecdotal, I was a terribly picky eater and my parents tried to force me to eat. I had to have so many bites of this or that. And I decided I simply was going to win, and they decided the same. I lost a lot of weight and my mom took me to the doctor, who told her to let me eat what I wanted. I have sensory issues so that might have been part of my problem. But I lived on PB&J for a while and I ended up being pretty healthy.

I'm not that picky anymore. I outgrew it when I started living on my own and having to cook my own food.

I have never forced food on my daughter, told her it's rude to not eat what I eat, refused her other food if she didn't like it, or anything like that. But as it turns out, she isn't picky at all so this isn't an issue that comes up often - she eats most things. I just serve up the food, and she almost always tries everything just because she's curious. Even if she's had it before. She says, "Maybe I'll like it this time." But I wouldn't dream of telling her she had to eat something that she didn't like. There is no emotional attachment to food in this house, and there are also no power struggles over food. And she has healthy foods available to her at any time if she's hungry (though she doesn't actually like yogurt - so there's one food she's picky about), but since she isn't picky that's usually for snacks when she's going through a growth spurt. She eats a LOT during those times, and other times she'll take a few nibbles and not want anymore. Anyway, I want her to listen to her body's signals and eat as much as is right for her at that time.

Oh, one last thing. I really hate the idea of her eating to please me. There's something about a child eating to please his/her parents that freaks me out. I really see that leading to terrible food problems.


----------



## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

Another story of an adult being a childish picky eater:

My cousin got married on this beautiful island on the Maine coast. We all went and stayed at this wonderful B&B for a couple of nights to enjoy the wedding and the parties afterward. There was only one restaurant on the island.

Well my cousin (the bride's younger brother, who had Co-Co Puffs every night for dinner growing up) looked over the whole menu and then asked the waitress what kind of soup they had. They had Cream of Broccoli and Lobster Chowder (of course! It's Maine!). Cousin sighs loudly and asks her, "Don't you just have a can of Chicken Noodle back there?"

It was embarassing. So yeah, I understand kids being picky. And I agree w/ not forcing them. But Super Picky Adult Eaters are a royal pita IMNSHO.


----------

