# Non-AP parenting techiques that bug you



## delighted.mama (Jan 29, 2003)

OK, sometimes I feel like I am being such a stickler when I ask my MIL or mom, or whoever is playing/watching dd to DO/NOT DO certain things. OR, when I see other parents in our playgroup do certain things with their kids. There are some parenting things that I simply do not want reinforced. I'm just curious if any of you have some parenting NO-NO's that drive you bonkers. Here are some things that bug me.....

-Saying "NO" repeatedly without either explaining why or stating the same concept in a different way, such as "Please don't do that..."

-Using scare techniques to get dd to do something.....like, "daddy's going to be home".... I hate this because she shouldn't be scared of any third person simply because someone told her not to put her feet on the table, for example.

-Letting the child simply do whatever without either re-directing or stopping the negative behavior------example, MIL actually let dd write on my walls with a crayon because "dd wanted to"....ARGH! I didn't think it was cute and I certainly don't want to reinforce that behavior with dd.

-Pushing food into DD's mouth....the "just-one-bite" syndrome---one of my biggest pet peeves. She'll eat if she's hungry!! I sound like a darn tape recording repeating this over and over again!

-T.V.---don't even get me started. For the most part, family is good about NOT turning it on, but, when then do let dd watch Mr. Roger's or something, they always tell me "how much she liked it!". She's 19 months! She likes watching ants crawl on the sidewalk too.....a more worthwhile activity IMO, than sitting like a zombie in front of the TV. (I had to disconnect the cable a few times to discourage tv use in my absence)

-Of course......spanking. No one has done this with dd, but I hate it when I am in a store and see someone screaming and slapping their kids around. Breaks my heart!!

That's about all I can think of right now. I'm sure more will surface if I think about it!







:


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## Quickening (May 20, 2003)

I hate it when parents threat their children... or blackmail their children or bribe their children!

It also greatly bugs me when parents make threats with instruments... like a wooden spoon or belt!!!!!!!!

I'm like uh, if you're gonna hit your child, do it with your hand so you know EXACTLY how much it hurts! If they hit with something then they could hit as hard as they like without having any idea of the actual damage they are doing.

Hitting full stop just makes me mad (even in the form of "spanking").

The repeated NO! seems to be a common thing! how annyoing is that?

One other thing is junk food.
I don't like it when other people say "oh just one candy/chocolate/bigmac won't hurt, give her a treat, I want to see her face when she eats it!" AND this is about my dd who is only 8 months and still exclusively bf! Ack! They better not do that when she is 2 years old, I really don't want her having refined sugar and junk food for a long while yet!


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## PurplePixiePooh (Aug 5, 2003)

CIO - there is NOTHING more of a sore spot for me. If I am at someones home and they "put the baby to bed" and let the child cry till they are ready to go to sleep I have to leave or to say SOMETHING! IMO CIO is a barbaric, disgusting, sick thing to do to a child, and it makes me ill to think of how many innocent children are victims of a mind set that does not recognize their innate humanity by allowing a helpless infant or sweet, innocent child to cry themselves to sleep all alone and without comfort. DISGUSTING!!!!!

Junk food - pet peeve here. I get so grossed out watching mothers unload the shopping cart full of soda, "fruit" snacks, pop tarts, hot dogs and other garbage. I really hate it when we go somewhere and I have to repeatedly tell them, no Tina cannot have that candy, or she does not drink soda....what is worse is when there is no alternative and then she gets thirsty and we either have to leave, buy her something somewhere or allow her to have that crap. EWWWW......

Spanking - Its violent, degrading, dehumanizing, humiliating, and just plain WRONG! I especially hate it when people think nothing of those that will see that violent behavior, like another child. They just assume that if they hit their chldren so deos everyone else.

Threats - It irritates me to no end when someone will say something to my dd like "oh, no don't do that you'll get a spanking" I'm like, no we don't hit our children!!!

The "its gonna get you" threat to get a child to cooperate - sometimes I will catch someone say to dd "Hurry up come here or that snake will get you!" Why, oh WHY would you want to frighten a child into doing what you want, and it will eventually cause that child to have irrational fears.

Parents who allow violent 'play' - At a party we were at some children were playing like they were hitting one another and one even pretended to hit my dd! Hiting is wrong and it should not be encouraged. Period.


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## padomi (Dec 28, 2002)

Yes, particularly the TV thing. When my mother comes to visit, it's a battle. If I leave the room, she turns the darn thing on. I've told her dd is only allowed to watch Noggin or videos and no more than an hour a day. But if I leave her alone with dd for a second, when I return, there's some violent cartoon on. When I explain that even cartoon ducks hitting each other is violence and not allowed - I'm told I'm too uptight.

Other than that, I hate it when my friend is mean to her kids. Her cute little boy will be trying to tell her something he's just discovered and she's ignoring him, then finally she'll yell and tell him to get lost. Makes me very sad.


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

my biggest peeve is when people mock their children. i have an acquaintance who will make fun of her children for crying, even when they get hurt. she'll say things like, "oooohhhh poor baby, you are so mistreated" and "oh look at the tiny little scratch, i'm sure that's soooo painful". it is absolutely sickening to me.

i am also disgusted by cio.


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## Very Snoofly (Jan 13, 2003)

Hm, well, my examples aren't as extreme as CIO or spanking and I'm not sure they have anything to do with being "AP," but...

My mother-in-law cares for my daughter 3 days a week while I'm at work. In general, she's great (and free!), but there are a couple of things that really bug me. For example, if Mallory is working on a puzzle and puts a piece in the wrong slot, MIL will say, "No, that's wrong," and take the piece from her and put it in the right spot. I think it's awful to tell a toddler that she's doing something "wrong" while playing, and I never take things away or "help" unless Mallory is obviously frustrated--and even then I try to work with her to help her do it herself. (And I say things like, "Try again!" or "That's a tricky one!" -- anything besides "That's wrong.")

In a similar vein, a couple of weeks ago we bought a dollhouse for Mallory to play with at MIL's. It had a mom, dad, and baby and all kinds of furniture and accessories. MIL and Mallory were playing, and MIL suggested that the family eat dinner. Mallory proceeded to put the mommy doll in the baby's highchair. MIL said, "No, the mommy doesn't go there!" and took the doll out. Again--what's the point of that? If Mallory wants the mommy to sit in the highchair, then that's where the mommy she sit. She's 20 months old, for heaven's sake--don't stifle her! I intervened and said something about how the mommy could sit wherever she wanted to.

Anyway, as I said, I guess these examples can't compare to spanking...but still involve a lack of respect for a child's autonomy and individuality.


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## NoHiddenFees (Mar 15, 2002)

Most of what peeves me has been mentioned already... but I've got one more that's not exactly AP related. It irritates me to no end when I hear, "good job, good job" for everything short of breathing. I was in a kids restaurant the other day and one mama there was hovering over her 3ish son at the train set asking every couple minutes whether he wanted another bite, or a drink. Every time the kid took a bite or sip, she acted practically overcome with joy... "good job, good job..."


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## Naturalmomma (Apr 29, 2003)

I agree with all of the above!

I dislike multiple warnings. Some of the best advice I've heard is "A parent who warns their child multiple times before correcting the behavior, will have a child who has to be warned multiple times before listening"
That is so true for a friend of mine. Her son is 4 and has to be "warned" that they will go home if he doesn't share, stip hitting, etc...He does not listen to her, yet she will NEVER follow up on what she says.

I really despise inconsistent parenting. It take time for discipline to work!

I hate spanking obviously. I was at a baby shower recently where a 15 month old little boy wanted to play with magnets on the refrigerator. His mom went over and moved the magnets but he still kept reaching for them. So, she put them back right within his reach and repeatedly slapped his hand...HARD...every time he went to touch them. I was outraged!


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## z-girl (Nov 28, 2001)

I'm not sure why, but I cringe when I hear parents scoldingly say, "Use your words." Maybe they could give their child an example of what to say, or do something more constructive than nag.


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## lula (Feb 26, 2003)

Oh crap, I read this hoping I did not use any of the tehniques listed but...I do say "use your words" when my dd is just screaming or another child is trying to take a toy etc. I do not say it in a patronizing fashion; more as a reminder. Maybe I should rethink this but it does work she now will usually tell me what is going on or tell the other child she is playing with the toy etc. Argh, at least I don't CIO or something truly heinous.

lula


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## monkeysmommy (Apr 3, 2003)

I hate it when parents tell their children not to do something when there is no good reason why they shouldn't do it. For instance, the last time I took my daughter to the ped, there was a mom there who kept yelling at her toddler to get off the floor, and not crawl around under the chairs. Meanwhile, my own child is crawling around happily under the chairs, and I'm thinking, "why shouldn't she be on the floor?" Then a few minutes later, another mom slapped her child's hand for playing with the mail slot in the door. Why? What was wrong with playing with the mail slot? It wasn't dangerous. She wasn't breaking it. It bugs me when people expect their kids to sit in chairs with their hands folded.


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## wemoon (Aug 31, 2002)

Thank you for this thread. I am mostly a lurker, and generally lurk when I feel like I am getting out of control, it helps me regain my focus. I am going nuts right now with my children, alot of things are going on in our lives. Their dad had to go to another state for work and will be gone at least 6 weeks, and I do work at home, so we are feeling trapped inside of my itty bitty apartment. The kids are bouncing off the walls, and I have no break from it. I have found myself doing many of the things listed here, and it is really frustrating me, cause I know that it doesn't work, it only hurts me and the kids and gets us no where. I love coming here when my emotions start getting out of control, cause you ladies are so wise with your gentle discipline. Thanks for being here!


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Celestial, I totally agree with you in regards to monkeysmommy's specific examples.

But momkeysmommy, I'm right there with you in general. Sometimes parents hover and micromanage their children.

The technique that bugs me most is probably the most extreme version of adult-oriented parenting, like Babywise. I think that rigidly schedueled breastfeeding is so wrong. I nursed ds "on command" for the most part, though I didn't drop every thing to stop and nurse him all the time. If I was folding laundrey I might finish the towels and then nurse him. But a woman at ds's preschool is pregnant and is already boasting about how this child will be nursed on her scheduel, not the baby's. No way that kid's gonna mess up _her_ life.


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## monkeysmommy (Apr 3, 2003)

The mail slot was in the door, but the door was being held open with a hook thingy so the child was not in danger of being hit with the door. It was really flimsy, I don't think anyone could have gotten their fingers stuck in it.

I can see your point about the germs on the floor, but the floor there is this huge carpeted thing with all these bright patterns and shapes and characters. It is meant to be played on. There was no one anywhere near the child that could have sat on the chair she was playing under.

I guess it wouldn't have bugged me so much that the parents in question hadn't allowed their toddlers to do those things if they had dealt with it gently. The one mom who didn't want her child on the floor kept saying, "I SAID get up off that floor" and shoving her very forcefully into a chair without even offering her any alternative activity. Same with the other mom- she didn't offer the child anything else to do, just kept saying no no no, until she finally got up and smacked her hand!


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## Lil'M (Oct 27, 2002)

Well, I say "use your words," which I feel is a very gentle discipline way of dealing with my girls' whining and screaming. When they are fighting, that phrase often helps them work it out by talking, which I think is great for a 6 yr old and 2 1/2 yr old.

One big pet peeve I have is parents who feel it is necessary to lie to their kids to get them to cooperate. For example, I was at the mall with dd #2 and a friend and her daughter and we had to leave to go get my dd#1 from school. My friend starts saying "we have to leave, all the stores are closing" Why did she lie? I told dd that we had to go pick up her sister.

IMHO, you just can't build trust and respect with your kids by lying to them!


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## shanleysmama (Mar 9, 2002)

CIO and spanking/violence. Also people who do things in the name of "we all want what's best for our kids" when really they want what is easy/convenient for *them*, not what is best for the kids.
Why do people think it's OK to hit their kids, but if they hit a neighbor/spouse/stranger they get arrested? Also a mom on another board told of using ear-plugs while letting her kids CIO, because *her* sleep is so important her kids have to know what night time is for! But it "worked" for her kids, so she was advocating it. UGH!
We were at DS's eye doc last week, and a Mom was there with her DS and the Grandma. Grandma was watching the kid (just over 1) while mom pretty much ignored him. Then the Dad came in, and started calling the kid a brat and a monster cuz he wouldn't sit still, and said the son was acting bad cuz he needed a nap. So he picked him up and shoved him in a chair and said "if you're going to be a brat you're going to sit still." When the son wiggled, the dad picked him up and took him outside - in a very angry huff, I was scared watching it all happen. The anger in that Dad's face was scary. Grandma jumped up and peeked out the window, but I guess their car was on the side of the building. The poor boy was just bored sitting in the tiny waiting room and gets the anger of his father upon him. The boy was also playing in the mail slot and I told him he'd get an "owie", but the slot was in the door and if someone opened the door his hands would have been pulled outward with the door. It was just a sad scene all around.

Melanie


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## z-girl (Nov 28, 2001)

Lula and LilM,

I didn't mean to offend about the "Use Your Words" thing. I'm sure that it can be used kindly and effectively; I'm just picturing the patronizing, dismissive, I-won't-listen-to-you-unless-you-can-get-ahold-of yourself tone. I hear that tone so often with those words that I just say the same idea, but with different words, like, "Let's think about what you could say with words that might help..." DD is only 2 so I often need to help her come up with ideas of what to say.

I like this thread! Interesting stuff!


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

Lil'M - that's what I was going to say, lying. It really bugs me when people lie to little kids. I'm not talking about stuff like Santa Clause, even though yes that is technically lying, but like the example you gave. At my inlaw's house one time they had a box of chocolates out that we were eating from. I let ds have 2, and then told him we couldn't have anymore because it wasn't good to have too much sugar, and I put the box away. He was kind of asking for some more, but not anything bad, and my SIL and FIL started telling him over and over that there were no more chocolates left, that they'd all been eaten. I was thinking, he saw the box, do you think he's stupid? That's what I don't get - don't they know that kids usually know that you're lying? They can tell the stores are still open. And I just believe it is so critical to lay a foundation of trust between parent and child.

The other thing that bothers me is emotional blackmail - give me a kiss or I'll be sad, grandma's going to cry if you don't let her hold you, etc. etc. I can't stand that!


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## Eggie (Aug 7, 2003)

Almost everything has been mentioned, I hope I wont repit too much:

The spanking/violence... even the shouting. Not happened to dd and will never but I hate to see it for other kids. Today I listened a mom who said "If you don't shut up I will hit you"... I was furious.

The emotional blackmail is awful, when MIL tells my dd, who is only 4 months but anyway, "Oh, I haven't seen you for so long (15 days) and for sure you have forgotten me" or "You are crying because you don't love me".

The TV situation also gets me SO mad...

To put the bottle on her mouth every time she cries, gosh, you can check her diaper first or lots of things before.

To use sprays or something chemical around the baby... lots of people don't even realize the danger of this.

To use their saliva to arrange their hair

To say "you need to eat more, to sleep more, to what ever more"... what a lack of respect for the baby!

To use baby powder on babies and clap first with it close to her nose so the powder can stick to your hands

To brag about the baby being so good and well behaved (yes, at 4 months) because she sleeps in restaurants or public places.

To keep the babies dirty, with so much drooling on their clothes or dirty noses.

To let the diapers wet, not cloth ones, until they are soaked because will help them save money.

To tell a baby how stinky is their dodoo. Or commentaries like "Oh, you got for me a big and smelly surpise again?"

It's late , I cannot think of any other one but for sure I have a big list hided in my brain, lol.


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## delighted.mama (Jan 29, 2003)

NOW, I remember all of the other things that bother me.....it's all the other stuff that you listed! The "lying" stuff really bothers me, even if it is a small lie. I forgot about that one in my OP. Also, the "scare tactics" That's a total pet peeve. I have repeatedly told my mom and grandma NOT to use scare tactics with DD when they want her to do something. I have to admit that a couple of times I tried it (just to get dd to do something without throwing a total fit) and I felt so bad about it afterwards. I decided that I was not going to make up ridiculous scare tactics or make false promises just to get dd to do something. You are all right - it is a breach of respect and a betrayal of trust. It's nice to see that other mommy's are bothered by some of the same stuff. I don't feel like some uptight freak!!


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

I want to say that I totally find child abuse disgusting as well, but I can see why it happens. Mom's tend to hold a lot of stress in their lives.. keeping the house clean, baby clean, self clean, food prepared, garden prepared...... to infinity. It's so sad that that is the norm. If people lived in communities where mom's had all the free time they needed to de-compress, I believe there would be no child abuse. My baby has been stuck to my boob since she was born. I almost never let her cry... if she cries, there is something wrong and it is my job to fix it, but she needs to have strong attachments to other people as well ie.. my mom, my partner... anyways, I guess I'm trying to explain why abuse happens. Almost every one was told no when they were baby... and so we all have that anger in our systems, no wonder we go off on our babies... for all that we do for them and try to do for them. But one day (if you join Primal Scream Therapy, and never abuse your child) that baby will turn in to an adult and will hopefully never abuse their child....

i hope I'm understood. I'm not advocating discipline (abuse) obviously, it's so hard to concentrate with a baby crawling down the hallway eating dust balls etcetra off the floor. YKWIM?!


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## LunaMom (Aug 8, 2002)

I hate when I see parents who repeatedly give in to nagging, especially long bouts of nagging. All I can think is, "Come on, you held out for fifteen minutes, don't give in now!!!"

I really get upset when people try to "discipline" their children out of honest negative feelings. You know, the child cries because he is sad that the party is over, mom threatens him with a time-out if he doesn't stop carrying on. What a horrible thing to teach a child - that being sad is bad. Parents who do this do it because they are uncomfortable and they are trying to take care of themselves rather than their children.

The junk food thing bugs me too - not when it's a little here and there, because I think that's okay, even though we have very little junk in our own family. It's those moms at the market with their carts loaded sky-high with what I think of as "fake food" - poptarts for breakfast, lunchables for lunch, "Kid Cuisine" frozen dinners...ugh. Or people who, for no reason I can understand, give their kids the junkiest version possible of a certain food that doesn't need to be junky, like they buy Hi-C juice boxes when real fruit juice would make the kid happy, or bright blue yogurt, or any of the other stuff out there to convince parents that kids don't like plain old food. Stupid!

Yelling at babies. I just don't understand why anyone would yell at a baby.























Using pacifiers to "turn off" a baby. I don't mean normal pacifier use for a baby who wants to suck - I never used one with dd but I know lots of babies seem to need more sucking than mom can handle herself! I mean when people pop it in any time the baby makes a sound!

Mom substitutes - sound-activated vibrating bouncy seats and the like. Baby cries, and the chair soothes the baby! Wonderful!







:

I'm sure there's a lot more, but I'm tired from a long day of positively disciplining my child!


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## ladyelmo1 (Aug 23, 2003)

Regarding lying to children - I actually watched my best friend in the whold world tell my dd that something was "all gone" when the truth was that one serving of ice cream (all natural, of course) was plenty for anyone. I simply said "no, it isn't all gone, but we've had enough for now." Got a dirty look for it, but later I explained that I was very particular about lying, and that I didn't want anyone lying to Anna. My mother has a borderline personality (meaning she is a compulsive liar, among other things) and I am REALLY touchy about lying as a result. She understood, and I think that will be the end of the matter.

My pet peeve, even bigger than the lying thing, is summed up in one person. This girl I went to high school with, who had a baby because SHE wanted the attention. CIO was only the start for this piece of work. She lets him cry ALL THE TIME!!! Example: She's on the phone, he's crying in the background, friend says "Well, I'll let you go, I can hear the baby crying." Her reply??? "Oh, he'll be fine. He's just upset."

HE'LL BE FINE???????!!!!!!!!!









Another example: Her and her husband are friends of a friend. We are all at camp for mutual friend's birthday. They go to leave, and ask me to put him in carseat (I was pacing the floor with him, trying to ease out gas from mom overfeeding him formula. Their comment:"never thought of that".) Carseat strap is too loose. I tell dad. He checks it, says it's fine. I put my WHOLE HAND between baby and seatbelt. He doesn't do anything.

Then there was the time I actually witnessed him slide down a few stairs, cry because he was scared and they DIDN'T DO ANYTHING!! Their excuse: they didn't want him to grow up to be a crybaby. I'm the one that is crying!









So, there it is. Complete and utter negligence. This is only the tip of the iceburg. I could tell you stories about this chit to make your AP hair curl; but this post would be 6 pages long if I did. DH and I have been sorely tempted to call DHS on them, but there is no evidence of "outright negligence". Plus, she and I are in bridal party of mutual friend in a year. I pray every night not to do/say something I will regret.

Oh, and here's the best part: THEY WANT TO HAVE MORE KIDS!!!!!!!

I'm gonna go be sick now.

-Melissa


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## ~Megan~ (Nov 7, 2002)

Quote:

Every time the kid took a bite or sip, she acted practically overcome with joy... "good job, good job..."
For those of us who have kids who don't eat well this is very reasonable. My dd is 15 months this week and will only eat a few bites other than nursing each week. When she actually opens her mouth for something we do praise her. We are so excited to see her eat.


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## Aaudreysmom (Aug 20, 2003)

I really agree with what is written here. There is one that I HATED so much as a kid: "Stop crying or I will give you something to cry about!" And if they felt like it and I kept crying I would get a spanking. I got this from both my mom and dad.







Cant they see that I am clearly upset about something and need support?

I always try to be VERY gentle with my 15mo dd but I have been guilty of some of the above mentioned "parenting techniques" When I am at then end of my rope is when I will speak angirly to her like after she has pulled sever strands of hair out of my head! (I still have not figured out how to handle this one)

Im glad all of you good mamas are here to help and support.


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## pixie-n-hertwoboys (Aug 17, 2003)

It was very interesting reading what some ppl thought of as bad parenting or pet peeves. I of course don't agree with hitting, spanking or belittling children or babies, etc. But in other aspects not knowing the full circumstances of that person I try not to be judgemental on how another person parents. If you were treated a certain way as a child and you have a child just like you its not easy to break the cycle. Some people do things because thats all they know how to do because their parents did it to them. And I try to remember that everyone makes mistakes and is imperfect. Variety is the spice of life. Saying all this with respects to everyone.

I do have a pet peeve of people using "things" to spank a child ie a branch (OMG lets whip them like slaves were!) spoon, belt, etc - I was spanked with a wooden cutting board and I have it now and will NEVER hit my children with it..... or hit period.

Some of the ways I was disciplined as a child were so irritating but I find myself doing it to my boy - holding his face and telling him to look at me when I talk... geeze I'm turning into my mom!

Also, I hope that no one looks at me and goes home and tells people! I get so frustrated with ds at times. He is a HN and spirited boy and at times I get overwhelmed. I have been told wow you are so patient with him but inside I'm boiling....... so short of wanting to send him to the moon I try to do things that will not break his spirit but still show him I mean business as a mom.

trying to keep my perspective....

Sarah


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## mama-mukti (Mar 7, 2002)

In addition to all the other things previously mentioned:

*Over-medicating children, esp. at night, when maybe some parent-time would help ease the teething pain instead, etc.

*Anything to do with rigid feeding/scheduling. I heard such drivel from a relative today about how toddlers refuse to eat as a way to rebel against their parents and exert control. I remarked that maybe she just wasn't hungry and that was her way of telling you?

*The general notion that children are put in our lives for the sole purpose of manipulating us.

Bizarre!


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## sadie_sabot (Dec 17, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Eggie_
*
To use their saliva to arrange their hair
*
I'm guilty of this one!!!









any particular reason not to do it, or is it just a thing which irritates you?

(btw, I am not taking offense at all!)


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## PM (Nov 19, 2001)

Not really AP...Grabbing from babies' and childrens' hands and later getting angry when the child does the same with other children. This is something my dh and I have really worked on. People do it a lot more than they think.

Ask for the object first!


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## Eggie (Aug 7, 2003)

Hi sadie-sabot,

Quote:

any particular reason not to do it, or is it just a thing which irritates you?
About the saliva thing, actuallyI found myself yesterday using my saliva to take some dirt of dd's face, lol, but when I wrote that I was thinking of how much I disliked it as a child (not so much from my Mom but from aunts, grandma, etc), and also about my MIL doing the same with my dd... aghhh, I don't want to kiss my dd's head with others saliva!! I does irritates me.


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## LunaMom (Aug 8, 2002)

T to Amarasmom:

I know you are probably excited to see your dd eat regular food - my dd also ate very little food until she was over a year. Just keep in mind - and please understand I'm not criticizing at all, just trying to be helpful - that sending her a message that it makes you and dh so happy when she eats could cause her to eat for the wrong reasons later on (to please you), or even to NOT eat (to show her independence).

Here's a good alternative to saying, "good job!" or whatever it is you say when she eats: just say, "My, you must be very hungry today!" Gives you something to say and helps her make a connection between eating and feeling hungry. So of course, if she doesn't eat, you can also say, "Okay, you are not too hungry right now!"

Back on topic...I hate when people lie to kids, too, especially when it is to manipulate them into behaving a certain way. I have a friend who used to tell her dd that a playground was closed, or that the candy had bugs on it (!!!), or whatever else she needed to say to squelch her daughter from wanting something. To this day (she's 4 1/2), the kid CANNOT handle any type of disappointment at all. Mom still doesn't explain things to her appropriately. It's sad.


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## rosebuds (May 23, 2003)

My biggest is when the baby doesnt get any human touch...

car seat to stroller to car seat to bouncy thing to vibrating blanket thing to swing to crib for the night. UGH. Hold your babies people! I saw in a store this week a vibrating floor mat with dangling toys and lights, couldn't have been 1.5 ft. long, how old is the baby youre sticking on that thing??? Ridiculous.

This may be off topic, not necessarily an AP thing but I hate to see young babies ears peirced!

Bottle propping.

Oh and another thing that really gets me going...
Forced kissing. Eg. My fil _USED_ to try to force my dd to kiss him when clearly she did not want to. She would only see him every 3 months max and to expect her to go running up to this very loud 300pound man and happily plant one on him, I don't think so. Time and time again I would have to repeat "She does not have to kiss anyone she does not want too!" (as nicely as possible mind you so as not to hurt his feelings, he indeed has the best of intentions)


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## Periwinkle (Feb 27, 2003)

I agree with most of what's here already.

My biggest pet peeve (not listed) is not really AP or non-AP, but I do find it disrespectful of the child in a way...

I can't stand it when every single little interaction with dd or ds is a "learning experience" or instruction, with a "let's help them move to the next level" intention.

Don't get me wrong... I'm all about teaching.

But sometimes, I see moms constantly yammering on to their poor dd or ds in a sing-songy yet teacher-like voice, like "Yes, that's an apple! Apples are RED! Ahhhh-pul. Yummm! What color is that? That's right, it's RED!! What else is red? Can you say ahhhh-pul?"... Or: "Where is your nose? No, that's your mouth - where is your nose? There it is? Where are your eyes? See, those are your eyes! Here are mommy's eyes! Now where are YOUR eyes??" Or when playing with blocks, constantly trying to get the 6 month old to bang them together, the 10 month old to stack one on top of the other, the 15 month old to build a tower of 4 or 5 blocks. It's like competing against the milestones... focusing on the next level at all times.

Please, we all talk to our kids like this from time to time, our role IS part teacher after all. But sometimes I wish some moms would just r-e-l-a-x and interact with their dc at their level. Just playing, hanging out, having fun. No POINT or purpose to every single little thing. I feel sad for some kids who are just constantly in school 24/7.

I do notice it more frequently with non-AP moms though I guess.

Whew. End rant.


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## Yarnia (Aug 29, 2003)

I took my daughter (now 18 mo) to have a haircut at around 10 mos. She hairsdresser used a brush to brush off stray hairs afterwards. My baby protested and the hairdresser said in a light baby talk voice "you need to get the hair off or it will stick in your skin and Mommy will have to cut it out with a razor!"
Yeah, really.
I was freaked and immediately began repeating the phrase to myself so I could be sure and tell hubby. That woman had issues.
Recently I returned to same salon (never again!) different hairdresser. The hairdresser asked me if she'd freak out when she cut her hair. I said probably, which is true. She then said she had to "warn" me that her boss would get really "upset". I gave her a blank look as I didn't really understand what she meant. She went on about how annoyed he'd be, how mad, he can't stand it....he gets upset when kids cry during haircuts, etc.....it was very strange. I asked what she expected me or her to do about it. She seemed SCARED as if she'd lose her job if my kid fussed during a haircut. I think she expected me to be scared of her boss! I asked at one point "what's he going to do? spank me?" and my sarcasm was entirely lost on her.
It was really bizarre.

so, I figure as messed up as I think my parenting is, there's somebody more messed up out there that thinks it appropriate to warn a baby about Moms and razors.

I find myself "not allowing" o.k. behaviors when I'm tired or frustrated. I have to check myself and ask WHY can't she color right now, is it really a bad time or am I just having a power struggle?
I am also guilty of the too much TV thing. She has just discovered TV and I'm not sure yet how to manage it esp as we are TV watchers ourselves.


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## Eggie (Aug 7, 2003)

I found something else that I consider a total lack of respect for the baby:
There was this mom with her only child in her kitchen, she was feeding her 6 month old some peas and the baby was getting totally green... he looked so cute! lol, anyways, when they finished, she grabbed the same cloth she used before to clean the counter top, the grease from the table and some dirty dishes to clean the baby's face... That cloth was smelly







but maybe she cleans her self like that, right? aghhh


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## leelee (Jul 19, 2003)

I am so glad to see this tread. Sometime you just need to vent.

My list of peeves:

Over medicating: My girlfriend and I wanted to drive the the ocean for the day (about and hour drive) and we left at 8am. She gave her 3yo DD nightime tylonol to help her relax in the car. I was shock when she told me.









Like others have said already, CIO bothers me SO much. I would not let my spouse feel sad or upset in the other room by himself, why should I make my baby.

Junk food thing. It bothers me when parent will give junk food as a reward for good behavior. A warm huge from a parent means much more to a toddler. The same girlfriend that medicates will give her dd sugar at every meal, reward her with sugars and then doesnt understand why her dd is out of control. She is so high on sugar. If I ate that much junk food I would be unmangable also. And then she will punish the out of control behavior by rubbing it in that dd cant have candy because she wasnt listening or behaving properly. She told me that she once ate an ice cream cone in front of her dd to enforce her "you dont get any" method. Strange brew







When I questioned her she got angry with me. I dont see that girlfriend much anymore and thats fine with me.


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## nuggetsmom (Aug 7, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by pixie-n-hertwoboys_
*It was very interesting reading what some ppl thought of as bad parenting or pet peeves. I of course don't agree with hitting, spanking or belittling children or babies, etc. But in other aspects not knowing the full circumstances of that person I try not to be judgemental on how another person parents. If you were treated a certain way as a child and you have a child just like you its not easy to break the cycle. Some people do things because thats all they know how to do because their parents did it to them. And I try to remember that everyone makes mistakes and is imperfect. Variety is the spice of life. Saying all this with respects to everyone.

Sarah*
I agree with you. You could certainly find me saying "good job" at times, or even NO with no explanation. Because I am just done giving explanations. ANd many of the things mentioned I have done to some degree but overall I think I parent very consistently and gently, without punishment etc. It's just that sometimes you catch me at a bad moment. Luckily my worst moments are at home so there is noone there to judge me.

edited to add: let me clarify that I have never hit or punished DD. I didn't schedule her or anything like that. But if you were to see me out of context sometimes you could think I was a mean and strict mommy.


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## Periwinkle (Feb 27, 2003)

Quote:

You could certainly find me saying "good job" at times








T What's wrong with saying "Good job"? Am I missing something?







: I praise dd's or ds' efforts a lot. I think I am just confused. Sorry for being OT.


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## rosebuds (May 23, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by TwinMommy_
*







T What's wrong with saying "Good job"? Am I missing something?







: I praise dd's or ds' efforts a lot. I think I am just confused. Sorry for being OT.*
Here is an article you can take or leave...

http://www.alfiekohn.org/parenting/gj.htm

Here is a link to the thread...

http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...threadid=71611

HTH!


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## kaya3 (Nov 30, 2001)

OMG. As i read this, I find myself doing some of these thingd. good job, use your words... I say "use your words when ds sees my cup of water and begins to cry for it. I hope to teach him that crying doesn't gethim what he wants. Now, ds is 17 months old, and of course i don't make him say"mom, i'd really love a sip of yoour cold refreshing water." lol. anything other than crying works for me, which to him is generally"pease" (his too adorable version of please). i see nothing wrong with this, and think it's a good lesson.

My pet peeve....kids drinking soda. i've seen 2 year olds with soda at the park, and i just don't get it. also, when a parent is just downright disrespectful to their child, using a sarcastic tone of voice, or saying something horrible.


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## Periwinkle (Feb 27, 2003)

Oh OK, gotcha. I knew about not saying "Good *girl*" or "Good *boy*" (as in, child is only "good" when doing x, y, or z) or using praise as control (e.g., saying "Please put the telephone back... Good job!" But when dd or ds are trying really hard at something, it just is instinctive for me to praise them for trying. Like, when dd tries to go down the stairs backwards, which is still tough for her, and when she gets to the bottom, sometimes I say, "Wow! That was hard! Good job!"

Good article/thread though... food for thought! Thanks!


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## kaya3 (Nov 30, 2001)

Oh ya, one more ....
when a child doesn't hop to when it's time to leave the park, and the parent pretends to leave with out them. That really kills me. i would never want to teach either of my sons that if they are not faast enough to listen to me, i will just leave them where they are. I htink this tells a child that they are not worth waiting for, and not important enough to be braught home!! i would be heartbroken if my sons felt like I would just leave them.


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## LunaMom (Aug 8, 2002)

Yep, I hate that too - the "if you don't come with me I'm leaving without you" thing, I mean. When dd won't leave after she's had her five-minute warning, I will begin to head for the door or gate or whatever and say, "im walking out and I expect you to follow me." Amazing how well this works!

Can you imagine how a three year old feels when his mother tells him she's going to leave him at the park???


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## OneCatholicMommy (Jan 21, 2002)

LOL! Twinmommy, you might find me doing that with my boys (3 and 4) while in public! I find that it helps me to distract them "What color do you see more of in this aisle....green or white." "If I buy three green towels and five blue ones, how many do I have altogether?" I like to reinforce stuff I teach them at home so they see it as practical knowledge.


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## CTMOMOF2 (Aug 7, 2003)

Here's one i don't think was mentioned.

People that try to raise super-kids. I actually heard this acquatance of mine say to his 2 year old, "say the numbers in french, spanish, german, and Japanese" and she was tired because it was very late and we were at a party. She was wining and wanting to nurse (at least she was still nursing), anyway, he said "X, if you don't say your numbers you will get a time-out!" "So&so want to hear you say your numbers!"

like it was so important to hear a 2 year old say 1-10 in 4 languages!! I felt sooo bad for her, especially when she gave in and did it, practically falling asleep and you could hardly hear her, so the dad said "X! Speak up, no one can hear you!"

When she was done, he was looking around w/pride. Only like 2 of the people were listening at this point and I was one of them (because i was discusted!) and I said "poor thing, she's so tired, where's her mommy?" and the other person was thoroughly impressed with the baby that could memorize and recite on command!


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## DaryLLL (Aug 12, 2002)

My parenting bible when the kids were young was How To Talk So Kids Will Listen. I dislike it when I see parents using techniques that are so ineffective and disrespectful. If they would follow the ideas in that book, both they and their children would be happier and get thru life more easily.







:

Example: I was watering plants in the lobby of a health clinic (part of my florist job). A boy about 3 or 4 and his mom were there for at least 20 minutes between one office and another. The boy was crying _the whole time_. I just knew it must have been over shots (also don't agree with vaxes BTW), and I finally hear the mom say something about "needles." Well, the boy was crying and crying and when he could speak, just got out, "Let's go home--right now!" I just knew "right now" must be one of the bossy things the mom must say to him daily. All the mother said, for 20 minutes was, "Stop it. Stop crying. No, we are not leaving." They went outside for a while. They came back in. She let him go get a drink of water. He kept crying and demanding to go home. She finally got him into the office where somehow or another he must have gotten his shots.

It was so exhausting to watch. I would have empathized with the boy, myself. If I believed the shorts were good for him I would have said something like, "I know, the shots hurt, you don't like shots, you are scared," and let him feel validated. IME when the child feels validated, he is much more likely to co-operate. I then would have said, "I will hold you the whole time. I know, shots hurt!" Poor little boy. I am sure others in the clinic must have felt, "What a little brat," but it was the mom, not the boy, who was in the wrong. He must have felt so alone.


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## Leonor (Dec 25, 2001)

Interesting thread to read. I wish I could say I never did some of these things.


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## Aura_Kitten (Aug 13, 2002)

Quote:

Over medicating: My girlfriend and I wanted to drive the the ocean for the day (about and hour drive) and we left at 8am. She gave her 3yo DD nightime tylonol to help her relax in the car. I was shock when she told me.
ok, there really is a reason behind this, at least for a lot of people (me included, and i don't medicate at all usually) ~ consider that the same stuff in nighttime tylonol is in dramamine... it may have been a more acceptable alternative for her than dealing with a puking, stressed out child. my parents *always* medicated me on trips, because when they didn't i was in so much distress from getting carsick i couldn't enjoy anything, and i had gotten so worn out by the time we reached our destination i was cranky and couldn't enjoy it. we've tried everything else "natural" and it just doesn't cut it. motion sickness is well remedied by diphenydramine hydrochloride. while the friend in question may not have been using it for that same reason, i'm just pointing out that some parents do.

Quote:

sometimes, I see moms constantly yammering on to their poor dd or ds in a sing-songy yet teacher-like voice, like "Yes, that's an apple! Apples are RED! Ahhhh-pul. Yummm! What color is that? That's right, it's RED!! What else is red? Can you say ahhhh-pul?"... Or: "Where is your nose? No, that's your mouth - where is your nose? There it is? Where are your eyes? See, those are your eyes! Here are mommy's eyes! Now where are YOUR eyes??"
when my son was younger i did that *constantly* with him, we *always* had a dialog like that going to build his language skills and help communication along. he now has extremely good communication skills and a huge vocabulary. what bugs me is when people do that, and then *drill* their kid to recite the information back to them, at the distress of the child.

Quote:

if you don't come with me I'm leaving without you
my dp and i got so frustrated one day we tried that... and it completely didn't work because our son knew we'd never leave him :LOL he just sat there laughing. but for a parent to threaten that at all is mean (and yes, i regret that we tried it).

Quote:

Use your words
we do this too, mainly because i *know* my son knows how to communicate without just screaming at me. so i'll tell him, "you need to use your words. calm down so that i can understand what you're saying to me."

Quote:

I hate it when parents tell their children not to do something when there is no good reason why they shouldn't do it
but maybe there *is*, at least maybe the parent thinks there is.

Quote:

To put the bottle on her mouth every time she cries, gosh, you can check her diaper first or lots of things before.
for a bottle-feeding parent, how is this any different than a breast-feeding parent who does it? do b/f'ing parents who nurse to pacify also bother you?

Quote:

To say "you need to eat more, to sleep more, to what ever more"... what a lack of respect for the baby!
for some of us, we call it "caring for our child's health and well-being." if my son lays down for 20 minutes after being up 8 hours straight, yes, i lead him back to bed and tell him he needs to sleep more. if he hasn't eaten anything besides a couple of crackers all day and refuses to eat more because he wants to go play instead, yes, i keep him at the table until he eats another spoonful or two of food.

Quote:

To keep the babies dirty, with so much drooling on their clothes or dirty noses.
while i can't stand dirty noses, what's wrong with drooly babies? do you change their clothes every time they get a little food/mud on them too? in our home, we have the philosophy "the gods made dirt, so dirt don't hurt." our son has also only been sick about 3 times in his life.

Quote:

To tell a baby how stinky is their dodoo. Or commentaries like "Oh, you got for me a big and smelly surpise again?"
i tell my son his poopies are stinky, because they ARE stinky. it's not a negative thing, and i don't think the commentary example was a negative thing either. poop stinks. our poop stinks. his poop stinks. and everybody poops. (we even made up a poopy song for him when he was younger.) again, for us it's a language thing; it gives him a word for what he's smelling.

the praise thing... we praise a *lot*. i thought this was an AP thing, or a GD thing... praise in order to keep up the good behaviour, instead of just negative consequences for bad behaviour.


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## Leonor (Dec 25, 2001)

This is getting more interesting, it started as AP vent of non-AP things and we actually have an AP mum arguing back.








:


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

WOW! It took a while to read through this whole thing! I wanted to add a couple things too. I do agree with what some of the moms were saying earlier that you never really know the situation and I personally try not to judge because I think there might be more to the story. Of course in some cases it doesn't matter what the story is, what the parent is doing is just not ok. My point is, with my HN 5 year old, I'm sure you could've caught me at some moments where you'd think, "What a mean mommy!" but there's so much more to story. Anyway, nonetheless, I still have some gripes!

The dangerous & tacky bottle propping. Hate it. It makes me sad for the baby.

In general it bothers me when babies aren't held. Of course sometimes we just have to set them down but babies are supposed to be held as much as possible and I cant imagine not wanting to hold my sweet baby. This also makes me sad for the baby, that they're missing that human closeness.

I hate it when people try to embarass and demean their children. Or when they force affection on them. That is sending such a wrong message. Kiss someone when you don't feel good about it because they want you to or you're "supposed" to. Hmmm, what else could that lead to in the future? Or when the parent won't respect a child's feelings. I was at Chuck-E-Cheese and a little girl was scared of the huge moving singing characters (they scare me too!) and her dad kept making her go by them and totally disregarding her feelings saying, "Come on, they're not real." (in a tone of voice like she was "stupid.")

I really, really hate inconsistent parenting. Of course we've all had that one time that we let it slide, I"m talking about the one that says the threat over and over but never follows up, etc. Or a parent being really permissive and letting their kids do things that aren't ok, like hitting my child, and acting like it's no big deal. Hello, treating violence as acceptable is a big deal! So, there are more but these are my main gripes.

Oh yes, CIO, scheduled nursing and seeing those newborns screaming to eat but the mom won't feed it because she doesn't feel comfortable in public. AHHHHH! Don't starve your 3 day old baby because you think someone might judge you!









Sorry, I guess I could go on for days!!!!!!!!!


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Leonor_
*This is getting more interesting, it started as AP vent of non-AP things and we actually have an AP mum arguing back.
*
I think it is because it should have been put as what parenting techniques bother you, not what non-AP parenting techniques bother you. A lot of this is subject to interpretation so just because a parenting behavior bothers another mom, it doesn't mean it can't be used with attachment parenting.

I have friends who I feel are too strict with their children and won't let her misbehave. They say no all the time to things I think are kind of arbitrary. I also have friends who don't say no at all. I used to have a hard time saying no, feeling like I had to give a long explanation. Phrasing it in terms my dd would understand could be tricky, but I'd come up with something. Then right after I finished, she would ask the same question over and over again. I found this very frustrating, and finally would just reply with no.

Last year I took some Communication Skills classes offered by my LLL group. I brought up this issue. One of the facilitators said that you need to state the limit and reinforce it, but sometimes you might have to restate the limit a number of times before the other person gives up. Interestingly enough, she was saying this in regards to one adult to another. Like a mom might ask repeatedly for a LLL leader to give a medical recommendation as an informal opinion and may not give up on the request until you've refused it a number of times. I brought up my issue with my daughter and the facilitator said that once you've explained yourself, and re-explained making your position clearer, you will have to say no a number of times.

So if you see a woman in the grocery store pushing a cart with a baby in a sling saying "No, I've told you why already!" with a 4 year old trailing behind whining, crying and saying things like _but *why* can't we have ice cream, ice cream is healthy!_ it's probably us. :LOL


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

:LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL
Amy,

That sure sounds like me! Baby in the sling, pushing the shoping cart with a 3 year old and 5 year old inside always trying to do something we've already discussed was not an option! The life of being a MOTHER - It's an amazing job!


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## Aura_Kitten (Aug 13, 2002)

Quote:

This is getting more interesting, it started as AP vent of non-AP things and we actually have an AP mum arguing back.
well how exactly do you all define attachment parenting? it seems to me that a lot of things that were mentioned weren't necessarily non-AP, just things that parents do differently.

does it mean keeping kids and houses spotless? *only* using nonchemical cleaners? (no, i'm not martha stewart. i do keep earth-friendly chemical cleaners around, and send my son out of the room before using them usually. but we keep a very messy home, the laundry is hardly ever folded and put away....) does it mean letting kids eat whatever they want? not ever feeding your kids sugar? not communicating constantly to boost language and communication skills? these don't seem like AP _or_ non-AP things. AP to me means raising securely attached, communicative, respectful children that are content and thoughtful of others, and respecting children as people. it means giving children rights and choices, and when they need discipline, doing it without violence.

maybe i have a different view of AP than most people here?


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## MamaSoleil (Apr 24, 2002)

I agree with Klothos.

I obviously am not into CIO, and spanking. That for me, is the biggie. But I want to teach my children to be respectful. If I see a mother, and she says or does something that makes me cringe, well, I think "She may be having a bad day", and I'll give her a smile. I've had my bad days, and wouldn't want to be judged on that.
So, I'm respectful, and my daughter, at 41/2, I have to say, is extremely respectful, and mindful, of others. And I'm proud of that.

BTW, Amywillow...your scenario...baby in sling, child trailing behind for ice cream....btdt...:LOL


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Klothos,

I actually just started reading this thread out of curiosity. Honestly, I've never labeled myself as AP. I just consider myself a mother who tries to do things naturally and I try to stay in tune with my mothering instincts while raising up my little ones. Maybe I'm an NM (Natural Mothering?). I noticed that a lot of the posts on this thread were saying, "well this isn't exactly non-AP" so I thought it wouldn't matter if I chimed in with my gripes. I'm kind of with you though. I'm interested to know what is the exact definition of AP. I personally don't let my kids watch any TV or eat junk food, but I never thought that would be part of AP. I'm assuming AP is things like skin to skin contact, co-sleeping, etc. But I'd love for someone to enlighten me with all it truly entails. I guess I'm a little behind the times


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

p.s. Thank you Klothos for the bit about the messy house and unfinished laundry. I'm not alone!:LOL


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## beaner&tiegs (Aug 3, 2003)

I think for me, some of my biggest pet peeves have to do with how others interact with my children - like "Well look at so&so, she's doing that, why can't you be more like that?" in front of both kids. Or "If you're not nice/don't play with so&so, she's not going to want to be your friend" - don't do that to her......and I find it so hard to undo once it's done! That, and always commenting on how pretty DD is.......I"m sure that's all she thinks she has going for her in other people's eyes, as that is what is constantly commented on. I feel like screaming "there's so much more to her, and her looks are really the least important aspect of who she is" And it is soooooo pervasive to focus on only that, from store clerks to fellow passengers on the bus, to acquaintances. The number one comment is on her hair, and she now refuses to let me cut it - and is becoming scarily focused on how she looks to other people








Soother - I would love to go without it, but DD2 LOVES to suck, and we went for a while where she *needed* to suck, but would get so frustrated whenever my milk came in, so finally after laying in bed with my finger in her mouth for hours, I decided to get her a soother! Whatever, not a huge deal. But one day I'm walking down the street with her in the front carrier, and an older woman comes up to pinch her on the cheeks (oh, another one....don't touch my baby's face!) and pulls the soother out of her mouth and says "she doesn't need this" Uh, EXCUSE ME?!!!!
From my childhood - at about 10 years of age I had a cough, and couldn't stop coughing one night. Dad was so annoyed that I was disturbing his sleep, so storms in to say "if you cough one more time, I'm going to give you a spanking" How illogical is that?! And blatant power trip. I was so scared, I spent the next hour or so trying desperately not to cough, tears streaming down my face. And it still haunts me. This kind of parenting is a huge pet peeve - it's not as if I had any control over it, or as if I didn't want to go to sleep too!!
Anyways, writing a novel here.....!


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## Aura_Kitten (Aug 13, 2002)

Quote:

"If you're not nice/don't play with so&so, she's not going to want to be your friend"
this could also go a different way though... like for my son, if he's playing nicely and then suddenly decides he wants a toy from someone and smacks them and grabs the toy and makes the kid cry, i intervene and say something like that, like "if you're not nice, nobody will want to play with you." or "please play nicely; how would you feel if someone came up, hit you, and stole your toy?" and i'll encourage him to apologize / give hugs and give the toy back.

Quote:

From my childhood - at about 10 years of age I had a cough, and couldn't stop coughing one night. Dad was so annoyed that I was disturbing his sleep, so storms in to say "if you cough one more time, I'm going to give you a spanking" How illogical is that?! And blatant power trip. I was so scared, I spent the next hour or so trying desperately not to cough, tears streaming down my face. And it still haunts me. This kind of parenting is a huge pet peeve - it's not as if I had any control over it, or as if I didn't want to go to sleep too!!








my parents used to do stuff like that to all of us. i remember when i was being potty trained, if i got out of bed to use the potty and couldn't go, my dad would barge into the bathroom, pick me up by my shirt/PJ's and spank me, then throw me back onto the toilet and yell at me for staying on the potty. (i *still* have issues with that.) i can't stand control trips like that. i'm sorry you had to deal with something like that too.







s


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## beaner&tiegs (Aug 3, 2003)

__________________________________________________ __
this could also go a different way though... like for my son, if he's playing nicely and then suddenly decides he wants a toy from someone and smacks them and grabs the toy and makes the kid cry, i intervene and say something like that, like "if you're not nice, nobody will want to play with you." or "please play nicely; how would you feel if someone came up, hit you, and stole your toy?" and i'll encourage him to apologize / give hugs and give the toy back.
__________________________________________________ __

I guess for me (and this is talking about *ideals* as opposed to what ALWAYS comes out of my mouth!







: ) that I would rather deal with the behaviour itself (ie your second option, or something similar dealing with what has to change) rather than the threat of noone wanting to play with him/her. Because I don't know why others are playing with him/her, and they all seem to hit/grab toys from each other - it's par for the course, really. So more than likely, they would want to play with him/her even with the behaviour. I guess if they were older, and people started to not want to actually play with him/her we would talk about why others might not want to play with them, but at this point it seems like a threat that I don't even know if it's true or not, and just adds that extra element that doesn't need to be there, and IMO doesn't really help the situation, dykwim? And in my example it was definitely used in a shaming sort of way, as if my DD has never hit this child herself, and as if we all could not work something out - ie in the spirit of relationships are something that you work on, rather than always having the threat of it disappearing if you don't do the right things. Does that make sense? It's late and I need to go to bed, hope I"m being clear and non-offensive!


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## mommajubilee (Jan 9, 2004)

well, i know i won't be winning the AP Gold Medal!:LOL

it's such a balancing act isn't it? trying to be the most loving, gentle, attached, patient parents to our children, while at the same time trying to meet our own needs as individuals too? (not to mention keeping our sanity! :LOL ) i have struggled with this so much since becoming a mama.
i completely agree with the general AP philosophy, but find myself falling short often. i have yelled, i have disrespected my son (and felt *horrible* about it), i have given him soda..







, i have definitely made poor decisions just because i was feeling too tired/lazy/frustrated to handle things a better way. granted, these things don't occur on a regular basis, but they do occur. and i have been working on moving beyond my guilt for these things, because ultimately, i really am doing the best i can in this moment. i am always striving to do better. i have never let him CIO, i breasfed until he was 2.5, i've never used violence to discipline, i view him as an individual who still has rights even though he is a child, i sleep with him every night, and i *love* him so deeply. i will always work to improve my shortcomings, but i will also love myself for the great mama that i am!








sorry to make this a tangent about ME :LOL . I was really inspired reading this thread...it's so interesting to see what perspectives all you wonderful women have on this enormously challenging and rewarding job of being a mama!


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## Leonor (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by klothos_
AP to me means raising securely attached, communicative, respectful children that are content and thoughtful of others, and respecting children as people. it means giving children rights and choices, and when they need discipline, doing it without violence.
I think you pointed out something very important.

When I started AP (some weeks before my child was born) I wanted to be as far as possible from the mainstream and the pains it caused while promising no pain, and try to understand my child cries from a natural perspective. So I natural birthed, breastfeed, co-sleep and so on and everything was actually much "obvious", easier and gave me a sensation of freedom for both me and my baby.

But when the baby became a toddler, AP was not making life easier anymore. The natural parenting that soothed my baby was making my toddler cry, as he seemed, against my beliefs, to choose the horrible plastic toy instead of wood and go for candy instead of fruit.

When I came for AP for reassurance, I've found that AP parents think children are people and can have choices, but they don't agree in which choices children can't have a choice (sorry, can't put it better) and can't agree where discipline is needed and how exactly is done (only all seem to agree against yelling and hitting). But it was very confusing for me anyway.

It disturbed me that although some parents are ok with some of the "polemic" choices, others are not, but the fact was that young children, if I can generalise, tend to choose the "polemic" choices if those choices are not hidden from them. They tend to want horrible candy and horrible toys... and TV and computers and so on.

I also prefer to sit at my computer than dig the earth for food.
I rather hear electronic music than classic one. I can't help it, I like the sound of it. I like cheap diet cola, it's my favourite drink. And fizzy candy. I actually had to force myself to eat all the recommended eat vegetables and fruit. I'm an adult yes.

But somewhat I never felt ok by enjoying things and hiding them from my child, I think of it as "preaching then not practising" (it's not really possible for me anyway).

So that's I why left it and was lured by another philosophy that promises being possible to raise children without discipline (please pm privately if you want to know which, it's an issue here in mothering) and joined them in their "fight", and then everything went wrong for us.

One of their beliefs is they think nobody can know anything for sure even if they prove it. I've been analysing this, and "anything" is an exaggeration for them to make a point, but I still think it's true we can think we know something for sure and then be wrong about it. I don't think it applies to morality, but to factual truths, like the earth not being flat.

The problem is I can't really know things for sure, as in complicated issues like plastic, that I can't analyse on my own, I will have to trust the words of an expert, some printed study (how do I know if it's really true?) and in the end all it amounts to is what makes sense to me or which expert I trust.

It reminds me of a teacher back in school commenting on someone" He didn't believe the man went to the moon, he though it was all special effects". Everybody was laughing and
I said nothing but I went home thinking: "How can my teacher really know it's not TV special effects?"

All this makes me want to live of the food I plant myself to really know what is in the food, but it seems this is a world poor people can't do that and rich people don't bother to...

And then again is it right to live on a desert island? What's the point?

Yikes, so long. Sorry, I'm rambling, maybe I should have started a new thread?


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

Leo, I think everything in life is like that: you have to make decisions on available evidence, your own thinking and on what other people say has been their experience.

I went to look at the Attachment Parenting International website, to see what they say. Very interesting, they don't have a list of ideals for toddlers! Their ideals are for infants and schoolchildren.

I think toddlers pose a huge challenge to all parenting philosophies. Also, that individual toddlers pose unbelievable challenges to individual parents!







Right now, my baby is still not officially a toddler--he is pulling up on the furniture. He has some characteristic toddler behaviors--right as I was typing that, he went for the cat's tail! I'm holding him now--and some more "infant" characteristics. So I'm in no position to advise you, is what i mean!

I figure, in a thread like this one, people are responding to parenting behaviors that look unloving. Attachment parenting is supposed to promote the child's sense that he or she is loved. This is crucial to development.

I have more to say but baby is impatient, I think he wants to nurse.


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## Leonor (Dec 25, 2001)

Oh, my child is not a toddler anymore (already 4), but I still think the advise for children is confusing. Thanks anyway


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

Hitting bothers me. Otherwise, I try to MYOB and tune out what others do. I'm not living the other mama's life, I don't know her kid, I don't know what she's already tried and hasn't worked.

I have enough trouble figuring out what works GDwise with my kids--I'm not going to be the GD police.


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## wendyk (Feb 9, 2004)

How about "Oh quit being so sensitive" for the very tired 7 month old that cried at the slightest upset? Don't we all have a little trouble coping with things when we're tired?

Wendy


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

Parenting techniques I dislike vehemently:
Yelling and screaming at children of any age
Physically jerking a child around
Lashing out in anger with a smack
Hitting/beating
Threatening discipline but not following through
Bringing in a third party "Wait till dad gets home, he'll tan your hide" or "If you keep doing ...., the police will come get you"
Taking misbehavior as a personal insult and responding to it the same way they'd respond to an insult from an adult.
Allowing a child to to *anything* they want
Being too lazy to teach and discipline properly (which results in any of the above things)

I could go on.

The funny thing is, I'm not anti-spanking!


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

Oh, I forgot things specifically related to babies:
Bottle feeding for convenience
Bottle propping
Continually verbalizing what a pain children are and how tied down the parents (particularly mom) are.
Doing that in front of children who can comprehend it.








"Disciplining" children who don't have the mental capacity to even know what is acceptable and what is not. (like, spanking a baby for crying to eat)
Rigid scheduling of infants from day 1

I could go on...


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## JanB (Mar 4, 2004)

Most of mine have already been mentioned, except one that just occurred to me:

Assigning motive or intent to very young infants.

I've heard people say things like, "Oh, we don't believe in catering to our infant's every little whim" or "She's just doing that to get a reaction from me." We're talking about one- and two-month old babies here! They don't have whims, and they definitely aren't trying to manipulate their parents. They only have instincts and needs. That attitude drives me crazy.


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## LunaMom (Aug 8, 2002)

I agree, JanB, very well put! I've heard parents say, "oh, she just wants me to pick her up" about their babies...like it's a BAD thing! It makes me just want to say, "Oh, well no wonder she's crying, since you WON'T DO IT!!!"







:

I also agree with the pushy parents who drill their toddlers in "academics" and coerce them into performing in public. "Sweetie, can you count to ten? Very good! Can you tell me what color this is? Can you sing the ABC's for everyone??? I'll give you a cookie if you sing the ABC's!!!"

Woof.







:


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## delighted.mama (Jan 29, 2003)

Well, after reading through some of these posts, I think that this thread should have just been entitled, "Things that bother you" or something to that effect. Sorry for not thinking it through when I titled it!







Can you Edit the title of a thread???

After re-reading some of the posts, I realize that some of the things have nothing to do with being AP or Non-AP. This wasn't meant to be a judgmental thread. Just some friendly venting about general parenting practices or things that are irritating.

Just thought I'd clarify that......







:


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## 1Plus2 (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by rosebuds_
*This may be off topic, not necessarily an AP thing but I hate to see young babies ears peirced!

Bottle propping.

Oh and another thing that really gets me going...
Forced kissing. Eg. My fil USED to try to force my dd to kiss him when clearly she did not want to. She would only see him every 3 months max and to expect her to go running up to this very loud 300pound man and happily plant one on him, I don't think so. Time and time again I would have to repeat "She does not have to kiss anyone she does not want too!" (as nicely as possible mind you so as not to hurt his feelings, he indeed has the best of intentions)*
Yes, yes, yes...on all three points! I can not stand to see or hear about a baby getting her ears pierced. Breaks my heart. It's their bodies and when they are old enough they can make that decision!

Bottle propping...ugh!! I remember when I was pg with my twin girls and was looking at twin nursing pillows. I saw an ad for one pillow that held two bottles so that each baby could suck their bottle without the mother doing anything. She sat there in the middle of the picture with her hands in the air like "Look at me! I have twins and don't even have to touch them to feed them!"









I HUGE pet peeve of mine is when anyone tries to force my daughter to talk, hug, or kiss them. She is her own person and as long as she isn't being blatently rude she should be able to decide who she wants to speak to and she should NEVER be forced to kiss or hug anyone!!!

CIO, spanking, empty threats are also on my list. Love this thread!!


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## Aura_Kitten (Aug 13, 2002)

Leonor ~









Quote:

When I came for AP for reassurance, I've found that AP parents think children are people and can have choices, but they don't agree in which choices children can't have a choice (sorry, can't put it better) and can't agree where discipline is needed and how exactly is done (only all seem to agree against yelling and hitting).
i kwym. children will *always* choose something sweeter/colored/artificial over something healthy/natural, particularly when they are young... the only exception being of course when you never present them with the choice so they never know what that stuff is. personally i really think it's the parents job to say, "no, you can't have _____" and then explain why and put their foot down. it really bugs me when parents consistently just give in and let their child have whatever the child wants -- children don't know what's best for them unless we teach them! that means...

don't give a child soda in a bottle! aside from the health effects, look at the habit you're raising the kid with!

promote imaginative play over TV / movies (my personal philosophy is that a little TV in the form of movies or advert-free violence-free educational TV is ok, max 1 hr a day).

don't give your kid the choice between celery sticks with peanut butter or a candy bar; the kid will always choose the candy bar, they'll get in the habit of wanting junk food, and if you decide at the last minute to not give them the candy bar and just give them the celery sticks instead that's not a real choice. i've seen this happen! "here honey, would you like carrot sticks, or this chocolate chip muffin?"







what don't people understand about this?? give the kid a choice like, "would you like celery sticks with peanut butter, or carrot sticks with cottage cheese?" roughly equivalent nutritional value, and completely different essence. the kid feels empowered, the parents know they're giving their kid a healthy snack, and the child grows up with good eating habits. wow pet peeve, didn't mean to start ranting.

i better stop, i'm so scatterbrained right now all i'm going to do is keep rambling.


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## Lucysmama (Apr 29, 2003)

Well, I can't stand it when:

-people who use sposies don't change their kids for hours and hours, just because the diaper CAN hold more!

-people prop bottles 24/7 so they don't have to go thru the hassle of holding their baby.

-people put their kids in swings/bouncers/carriers/baby gyms/playpens/saucers ALL DAY, just move them from one to the other. I nannied for a baby who had 7 baby-holding devices in the living room alone!







I only ever used one: the sling that the parents never touched. They would always come in and say, "Oh, you don't have to hold him!" Poor baby.

And, when I was a kid, my mom used to count in a very menacing way: "ONE......TWO......" the point was, when she got to three something would happen. But I never knew what! She never told us, "when I get to three, you're getting spanked!" or anything, so it was always just this weird threatning counting.







:

She still parents my little brothers in an awful way. She thinks it is appropriate to lock a child out of the house if they did something wrong, or to pull hair and swear. It makes me so







. I feel so bad for my brothers - I had to go through it, my older bro went thru it, and now they have to. It sucks.


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## Aura_Kitten (Aug 13, 2002)

Quote:

when I was a kid, my mom used to count in a very menacing way: "ONE......TWO......" the point was, when she got to three something would happen. But I never knew what! She never told us, "when I get to three, you're getting spanked!" or anything, so it was always just this weird threatning counting.
:LOL

sorry. i do that to my son ~ the counting, that is ~ but he knows that when i get to 3 he gets a time out, no questions. normally h e'll obey by 1 so, it's kind of a nonissue now. but i start by saying, "OK michael, if you don't ____________ / if you don't stop _________ i'm going to count to 3..." and then *poof* usually he'll do what i've asked of him.









not explaining what will happen is kind of weird. my mom sometimes did the "i'm going to count to 5" thing but we all just kind of _knew_ that it meant if she got to 5 we'd have to face our dad. and that was scary.


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## Foobar (Dec 15, 2002)

I am guilty of some of these.

We give Goo benedryl for long carrides because she has motion sickness. We discovered this after the 4th long car ride in a row where she puked all over everything. Ped suggested benedryl and it helps her tons!

I ask Goo to use her words when she starts whining for something. I explain that I can't understand what she wants from the whine, that I need to hear the words to understand it.

We often use the markets for teaching time. But not non-stop. We let her have plenty of imagination time too!

I have a question: I can't get back to the post to quote it: How do you know that a baby is hungry because they are crying? That always bugs me because Goo would cry often when she was young and we never figured out what the problem was. We checked diaper, offered food, checked temp, held her, nothing would stop the crying?


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Foobar_
*
I have a question: I can't get back to the post to quote it: How do you know that a baby is hungry because they are crying? That always bugs me because Goo would cry often when she was young and we never figured out what the problem was. We checked diaper, offered food, checked temp, held her, nothing would stop the crying?*
I don't know that someone else's baby is hungry when they cry, except to the extent that the cry resembles my baby's hungry cry. My guy, when he was littler, would sound and look kind of angry when he was hungry--would look intense, frowny. I didn't let him get to the point of crying from hunger very often! Now that he's a bigger baby he gives more cues about what he wants and needs.

Sometimes babies cry because they are overstimulated or because they need to be held (and even though you are holding them, they got started and it's hard to stop crying!) Our pediatrician showed us that a newborn will stop crying if you make a noise like a vacuum cleaner (a sort of loud hum) and then immediately attend to their needs. So when we got the "crying but not wet, hungry, hot or cold" we used the hum or other distracting noise, and then did some holding in low light in a mellow space.

When my friends had a baby recently, I used some of the tricks I had used with my son a year ago to calm her. I really had a good sense of what was up with her! I was so pleased! But my guess is that every baby is not the same...


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## boomingranny (Dec 11, 2003)

Pet Peeves:

judging and criticizing other parent's choices because they're "not AP"

Labeling parenting styles

Parenting fads

the fine art of competitive parenting

cheers


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

BoomingGranny,

:LOL Thanks for your wisdom. I personally choose not to label my parenting style. I do think a little venting is perfectly healthy sometimes though. That said, your comments are the most helpful to every parent. I don't like being judged and I feel bad when I do judge others. So, let's all make sure to keep it to venting and not competing and judging. Granny makes an excellent point..


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## boysrus (Dec 2, 2001)

What granny said.

This should be a supportive place. A lot of moms are new to ap. Why the heck are you piling guilt on them?

And some of this is crazy, imo. If you have a teacher dialogue(or monlogue) with our kids, your not ap? If your kids are dirty, you're not ap? My kids have huge sensory issues and they scream their heads off if I wash their faces. We do the best we can.

Hm, mybe I am on to something

Quote:

We do the best we can.
Of course, we cant all be as wonderful as the perfect Mothering mothers who are posting here, but we do the best we can


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## Leonor (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by boysrus_
Of course, we cant all be as wonderful as the perfect Mothering mothers who are posting here, but we do the best we can [/B]








:LOL


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

My sister's neighbor has 4 children. The baby is around 1 and the mom oftenrefers to her as that little F****in B****. The older kids spend a lot time at my sister'house b/c they told her that their mom doesn't like kids. When the one daughter spilled some water on my siter's floor she got very very upset. My sister told her not to worry it was jsust water. Then she saw why the little girl was so upset. On antoher occasion at the neighbor's house the little girl couldn't get the spout clsed on the water dispenser and she was screamed at and sent to stand in the corner. My sister actually spoke up and said, "tell her she can get out of the corner"
I think about those poor kids often and that is the parenting "technique" that really upsets me the most. I will be witness to it when we go to Florida this summer and am not sure if I should be around her so she can see other ways to aprent or keep my DD (Who will be around 21 mos when we go) as far away as possible.


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## Leonor (Dec 25, 2001)

Why does a woman that doesn't like kids has 4?


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## Suzetta (Dec 21, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by boomingranny_
*Pet Peeves:

judging and criticizing other parent's choices because they're "not AP"

Labeling parenting styles

Parenting fads

the fine art of competitive parenting

*


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## pamelamama (Dec 12, 2002)

oh fade away thread... just fade away... nothing to see here... move along....


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## JessicaSpalding (May 24, 2003)

Quote:

CIO and spanking/violence. Also people who do things in the name of "we all want what's best for our kids" when really they want what is easy/convenient for *them*, not what is best for the kids.
I have been thinking alot about this lately. There are so many times when AP is soooo hard for me, like when I am breastfeeding DD for hours, etc. But I could never let her CIO! Today I was at the park, and I overheard a mother who has a 2+ year old and a 4 mo old, and she was talking about CIO with her first baby, and how "it went against everything she was studying in school about child development and attachment theory (hello?) and it was the hardest thing she ever did and it tore her heart out and she cried too evernight that he was crying" blah blah. If well educated, generally intelligent sensitive people KNOW this, why do they do these things? Because it's not convenient or easy.

Another thing that bugs me is parents not believing that baby's and children have emotional needs. My SIL said that her DS (13 mo at the time) was crying and crying and she went in to check on him and he didn't need a diaper, he wasn't cold and he wasn't hungry, he just wanted back into the parent's bed for a snuggle. She said "he was just trying to manipulate me!"

oh well.


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## bananasmom (Aug 2, 2002)

Quote:

If well educated, generally intelligent sensitive people KNOW this, why do they do these things?
I think the answer is different for some people. I think that many new moms have pressure from family and friends to get their baby to sleep through the night. I think that the prevalance of formula use has a lot to do with this as well. The longer sleep periods and less frequent feedings of the ff'ing mom effects the expectations of the bf'ing mama. Additionally, bottle-feeding does not lend itself to co-sleeping or comforting in the way that nursing does, and many find themselves considering alternatives.

(some are just lazy, but I think there is more to the story)

~~~

As for me, my parenting experiences thus far have not gone according to what I have planned. From the outside, I must look lazy or weak to some, but I'm not. So, I am more prone to give the benefit of the doubt, when I see mainstream-ish parenting, particularly if I only see a tiny bit of the parenting.

For the most part, these are the things that I find myself questioning:

Starting solids before the 4-6 month window.
Feeding junkfood to babies.
Allowing a baby to cry, uncomforted, while the parent shops or eats.
Bottle-propping.


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## griffin2004 (Sep 25, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by bananasmom_
*Additionally, bottle-feeding does not lend itself to co-sleeping or comforting in the way that nursing does, and many find themselves considering alternatives.
(some are just lazy, but I think there is more to the story)
~~~
Career? Schameer!
*
And just when I thought I might be getting semi-adequate at this AP mothering stuff!

On behalf of bottle-feeding, career moms everywhere, may we PRETTY PLEASE play in the AP Doctrinaire Clubhouse if we promise to use the back door, sit our lazy fannies in the corner, and only speak when spoken to? I'll be the one with the scarlet "WOHM" emblazoned on my nonbreastfeeding chest.
Thanks ever so,
--Trish


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## bananasmom (Aug 2, 2002)

Trish - both of my daughters are/were formula fed. I didn't mean any offense, if you read my post again, I think you'll see that I was tip-toeing in around the issue. I am one of you, and have always felt terribly out of place here.

I myself am considering sleep training my youngest in the future, because of my experiences with my oldest daughter. I think bottlefeeding has been hard to night-time parent, because I can't let her fall asleep with a bottle in her mouth. Not only is it unsafe, it has yielded more gas (requiring picking up, waking up and burping). I'd have gladly co-slept, allowing her to nurse, but I didn't produce enough milk*, and both of my chldren eventually refused my breasts.

I was adamantly against sleep training, and tried my damnest to be a gentle night-time parent with Ana. Things went quite well for the first 10 months. She is not a good self-comforter, and I had no problem holding her and rocking her and doing whatever I could to help her back to sleep. But, as she became more mobile and willful comforting her at night was nearly impossible. By 15 months, she couldn't fall asleep with me or on her own. She would wake 3-6 times a night, and was often inconsolable; she wouldn't let me hold her. We often had to drive her, or allow her to fall asleep watching TV (I am very embarrassed about that - but I did what I had to do). I felt so detached as a parent, and helpless, and I often said to myself "oh, if only she would nurse, and could be comforted like the other babies that I read about at mdc."

As such, she was not getting enough sleep (only about 10 hours/day), and her health suffered. She was miserable. We had another child, when Ana was 18 months old. One night, I could not get to Ana, because I was busy with Marissa. I was fed up, and stressed out, and Ana cried in her crib. For 20 minutes. Then, she fell asleep. That was about 3 or 4 months ago, and practically every night since then, she has fallen asleep shortly after I put her in her bed. She does the same in her nap. She sleeps about 14 hours/ day and is a completely different child. She is healthier and happier. Really, it's like night and day (no pun intended) in terms of her disposition.

Looking back, I really don't think that I was meeting her needs. It may have been unkind to have let her cry herself to sleep. But, I think it was more unkind for me to allow her to become so sick and so miserable, by sticking to ideas that weren't working for her. I actually worry that how she might have suffered, knowing that babies need sleep for proper brain development. As it turned out, she now does very well by herself. I had no idea that she could comfort herself like that, and I still wish she would let me hold her to sleep. But, in her daytime hours, she is quite charming (for a toddler), and I make up for it then.

That's why I say that there is more to every story. Sure, if we know someone well, and we know the story, we probably do understand enough. But, when we overhear someone talking about Ferber or CIO or whatever, we just never know the full story. Just like anyone who sees my bottles (and yours) has no idea that we aren't just lazy.

Again, I didn't mean any offense, I was just very hesitant to post my whole thing here, for fear of the flames. Oh well, I zipped up my suit, ready for the heat.

* before anyone jumps on that, I have seen _many_ IBCLCs, and have been diagnosed with hypoplastic (insufficient glandular tissue) breasts and never produced more than 1/4 of dd's needs.


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## maemaesmama (Mar 19, 2004)

I am new to this whole "letting other people judge me cociously thing"







But, I just want to say.... I think it is healthy to admit to yourself your are not superhuman! AP has high standards that I try my very hardest to meet everydayI tandem nurse, CS, don't spank, give extra kisses!, however.... I am dealing with my own personal issues while raising my children. I just had to leave there father for reasons totally out of my control. Icry myself to sleep every night, and it is all I can do not to cry all day. I have had to uproot our family, figure out a means of support, edu..ect, move back in with my parents (who say I am not firm enough), and be grateful for what I have!!! My point is you never know what one single mama is trying to take on, Sometimes it looks great on the outside, but LIFE CAN BE TRYING. This is OK It has been said that a wise man welcomes pain for from pain comes wisdom. We are going to have days that we do not do it PERFECT! Lets get back to reality, and try to support one another more openly. Really I think as long as our children know they are loved, and respected. We can make mistakes! We need each other for guidance, and encouragment, not judgment, and harsh criticisms. Come on mamas I know you are not all flawless. Oh yeah, and one more little thing that bothers me Three kiddos is not 1 or 2!!!!! It is just not the same. Often I see mamas with one baby or two children talking about they would do it so perfectly well you know what I'll believe it when I see it. Everyone has room for growth. I hope this has not offended anyone. I am new around here, and do not want to allienate anyone. Somebody had to say it.


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## KermitMissesJim (Feb 12, 2004)

> To tell a baby how stinky is their dodoo. Or commentaries like "Oh, you got for me a big and smelly surpise again?"
> 
> 
> > Ok, that one made me laugh, because poop does smell--no way around it. I'm not going to pretend it doesn't. Plus, both of my kids, when I would wrinkle my nose and say, "ooh, stinky!" would laugh with delight. They loved the face.
> ...


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## pamelamama (Dec 12, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by KermitMissesJim_
*
Of course, I really doubt I am an AP or a GD parent. The GD way makes me leery because it walks the line of NOT disciplining, which is a nationwide catastrophe.

*
Hmmm







I will respectfully submit that for most of us who hang out *here in the Gentle Discipline forum* , <pointing to name of forum> there is quite a difference between GD and No D. That's why we don't call it the No Discipline Forum. :LOL







Stick around, and please don't use this thread as a yardstick.

It's a rough thread.


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## pamelamama (Dec 12, 2002)

Please can we just let this thread die already.


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## memory maker (Dec 11, 2003)

I hate it when people talk about their children in front of them, like they cant hear them. my DH's sister was telling my mom about my nephews reading problem, how his girlfriend broke up with him etc. My nephew was right in the room!!

I also hate it when I am walking through the grocery store and there is a crying baby in their carseat and the mother continues through the store while the baby screams. She didnt even look into the carseat to see what was wrong with him.


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

There are places for various things you ladies complained about.

Praising: Yes you can hurt your kids by over doing in and giving false praise but if your kids don't know that you are PROUD of them then they can be hurt also. I know, I was never told good job or way to go. There are times I do go Good job and Way to go but I also say something along the lines of "You must feel proud of yourself for ~~~~~, I know I sure am. You worked hard to ~~~~~~~." Or "I can see how proud you are by your face."

Bribing/rewards/and good job: My dd was born with a birth defect and we have had many test and hospital visits. We don't lie about something being uncomfortable. We tell her it is ok to cry and/or other acceptable behavior. It is ok to be scared. Yes, we have bribed her to be brave and "BE" still. Hugs and kisses sometimes only go so far and it has helped us give her incentive to be as still as possible. She knows if she does not do it she won't get the reward. There has been times talking about the bribe MENTALLY helps her make it through and past the pain and nerves of what is about to happen or happening. We talk have talked her through procedures and her feelings. We acknowledge pain cries and screams. It is hard to look at your baby and say "I know sweetie, it hurts just be still." "You are doing so good at being still." "Way to go. I know that was so hard for you."

Some times these bribery and praises are very needed and very healing, for you and the child.

My dd has speech and hearing problems. So yes I say "Use your words". She knows them, just does not always want to use them.


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## maemaesmama (Mar 19, 2004)

OK I do have one thing that gets my really upset. SMOKING in the car with the babes in the back







I really do HATE that!


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## simple gifts (Feb 27, 2003)

For all of you that mentioned difficulty in APing children past the baby stage, Isabelle Fox has a new book out called Growing Up: Attachment Parenting From Kindergarten To College.

I received a notice from APInternational when it came out. It's very good.


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## aravinda (Jan 10, 2004)

well this may sound strange, but i actually cringe when people say "good girl" to dd (9 mo). i think that mainly it is because she is by default "good" and not because she didn't cry or slept well, etc.
also i think i just have a negative connotation associated with the concept of the "good girl" that maybe is just something i have to get over but i myself dont think i coudl ever use the phrase as a term of praise. probably i would prefer to describe whatever it was she did, "oh you colored so nicely" -- rather than make her feel that if she hadn't done that she might not have been good -- i mean my comment should not reflect on her character but more my ability to appreciate (like the way we appreciate art).

of course i never say this outloud because i am sure folks would roll their eyes and such (i seem to be a prime target for people thinking that i know nothing or in their words "don't let anyone do anything" or "think too much"). same thing goes for tv, junk food (or at this point, almost any food) ...
aravinda


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## bananasmom (Aug 2, 2002)

*aravinda* - I know exactly what you mean. DH used to say that ALL THE TIME, but he has been working really hard to be more specific with his praise ("You drew a blue circle that is really very nice and round"). IMO, I think many people just don't think about it and/or don't realize the power of their words. I learned to do that as a teacher, but dh had to learn to do it.


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## kamilla626 (Mar 18, 2004)

I'm also annoyed and even outraged by the issues that people have mentioned here...

However, I'm also a little irked that these were brought up as "non-AP techniques". I don't consider what I do AP: my daughter sleeps in a crib, goes to daycare, I don't (can't) breastfeed any longer....

But I certainly don't agree with CIO, spanking, expecting kids to be still and quiet, fitting the baby into my "schedule" etc...

Do people really feel that if you're not AP-ing, then you're doing all those awful things?? I don't think it's quite that black & white.


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