# CSection Support Thread 7 (Feb/March 2004)



## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Hi! Here is the new thread. What shall we talk about.

I want to know what kind of problems each of you experienced in the hospital reguarding policy, having babies rooming in, etc. What would you do to change what happened? Did you discuss it with your doctor?

Kim


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## Cajunmomma (Nov 21, 2001)

I've had four C-sections, and I've never had a problem with rooming in. I did have rather long and detailed conservations with my doctors (both my OB and my pediatrician) before about what I wanted to have happen, and for the most part, I got what I wanted. My OB wouldn't agree to letting me nurse on the operating table. But he did get the nursing staff to bring me the baby in the recovery room.

My ped. was wonderful. I had no problems with immunizations, supplemental bottles, etc. The thing that I think is important is to make sure that What you want is in your hospital orders. The nursing staff will give you all kinds of heck about things that you want, but once the DOCTOR has spoken, they tend to be a lot quieter.


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Cajunmomma_
*I've had four C-sections, and I've never had a problem with rooming in. I did have rather long and detailed conservations with my doctors (both my OB and my pediatrician) before about what I wanted to have happen, and for the most part, I got what I wanted. My OB wouldn't agree to letting me nurse on the operating table. But he did get the nursing staff to bring me the baby in the recovery room.

My ped. was wonderful. I had no problems with immunizations, supplemental bottles, etc. The thing that I think is important is to make sure that What you want is in your hospital orders. The nursing staff will give you all kinds of heck about things that you want, but once the DOCTOR has spoken, they tend to be a lot quieter.*
This is very sound advice. I think communication is key.

Can you share your experience as to why you had surgical births and if there were any additional concerns when you had no.4 ?


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## Cajunmomma (Nov 21, 2001)

No, I don't mind. My first pregnancy was very uneventful, but at birth we had some problems. There was a fairly severe cephelo-pelvic discrepancy. My oldest was wedged so firmly in my pelvis that my doctor had trouble dislodging her. There is an audible "pop" on our videotape of the birth when he pulls her out of my pelvis. For about a week, her head sported a little ring from where she had been stuck.

During my second pregnancy, we planned for a VBAC. But my #2 was big (10 pounds, 2 ounces), and I didn't realize that we probably should have tried a VBAC anyway, even though the ACOG guidelines at the time recommended that if the baby was suspected of being over 8 pounds that another section was recommended. My water broke early, and we went ahead with the section.

#3 was a scheduled section. There weren't any problems.

#4 was also a scheduled section. I'm not usre what you mean by added concerns. If you're asking if my doctor gave me any grief over having another baby, the answer is no. If you're asking if he wanted to run all sorts of invasive and expensive tests, the answer is again no (except for the ones that I have always turned down). But the birth was different. My water broke in a different way, and by the time the section got underway, my cord had prolapsed. My uterus had "ruptured"--at least it had windowed. It wasn't anything traumatic, or anything that caused any hemorrhaging or anything. I also had a huge hernia in my abdomen about where the rupture was.

I don't know if I've answered any of your questions, but I'd be happy to. Just let me know.


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Was your last baby breech or not engaged? Do they have an idea as to why the cord prolapsed? Thanks for sharing about your window of your uterus. Were you aware in the OR was going on? Did you have any prior pain to your water breaking?

I really think its important to share these experiences.


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## Megs Mom (Mar 19, 2002)

Checking in while I nurse in the middle of the night...thanks for the link, Patty!


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## MadyCakes (Feb 26, 2004)

Hi Ladies... I am brand new here as you can tell. I had a c/b with my dd on 11/15/99 after 33+ hours of labor and 2 hours of pushing. The dr told me that my pelvic bone structure was just too small for my 8.5 lb baby. I am now pg again and due 07/11/04. Because my dr told me that a vaginal birth would not be possible unless I have a 5-6 lb baby, I am looking at a repeat c /b. To tell you the truth I would rather have a repeat c/b because I am scared of rupture if I tried to go VBAC. But I have to admit, I am SCARED TO DEATH to have to undergo another c section!! The last time I didnt have a chance to think about what was going on because I was tired and exhausted and just ready to have my baby out of me!! This time around however, I am having PLENTY of time to read up on c/b and of course I am one of those people who worry about the bad things, and just have this horrible feeling, that I am going to bleed/hemmorage or worse... I have read somewhere that repeat c/b are riskier because the dr's have to deal with scar tissue that is likely to bleed more.. is this true?? Also last time, I was given an epidural, but everything is just so foggy to me. I had my dd @ 12:47 pm, but I didnt get to see her until almost 6:00 pm, and I dont remember anything between those times, and I don't want to be like that again. I am assuming it was becasue I was so worn out between being in active labor and pushing for so long, and then the surgery just caused me to wipe out for that long? I am just really scared and since I am reading all of your c/b stories, I was hoping for some positive reinforcement!!! Thank you all so much









Angela
MadyCakes


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## Dawnalex (Jan 21, 2004)

I am getting more nervous for my upcoming c-section...
I have never had a scheduled c-sec. Is the recovery time any easier, do you feel better?
I hope things go better LOL...
With luke i was on labour for 8 hrs then a c-sec and wth Irelend i was in labour for 24hrs then a rupture then a c-sec...

My next app is on thu (next) and i am going to be talking to the dr about the c-sec and stuff, as i get closer im getting anxious LOL


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Dawnalex_
*I am getting more nervous for my upcoming c-section...
I have never had a scheduled c-sec. Is the recovery time any easier, do you feel better?
I hope things go better LOL...
With luke i was on labour for 8 hrs then a c-sec and wth Irelend i was in labour for 24hrs then a rupture then a c-sec...

My next app is on thu (next) and i am going to be talking to the dr about the c-sec and stuff, as i get closer im getting anxious LOL*
Please go check out out last thread. My csection birth plan is located in that thread on the fifth page I believe. Check it out!

Yes, for me, the recovery was easier. I took measures to ensure that as well. This is spelled out in my birth plan.

I think the key is to have a good frame of mind, move asap, have great support, and eat!

Kim


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by MadyCakes_
*Hi Ladies... I am brand new here as you can tell. I had a c/b with my dd on 11/15/99 after 33+ hours of labor and 2 hours of pushing. The dr told me that my pelvic bone structure was just too small for my 8.5 lb baby. I am now pg again and due 07/11/04. Because my dr told me that a vaginal birth would not be possible unless I have a 5-6 lb baby, I am looking at a repeat c /b. To tell you the truth I would rather have a repeat c/b because I am scared of rupture if I tried to go VBAC. But I have to admit, I am SCARED TO DEATH to have to undergo another c section!! The last time I didnt have a chance to think about what was going on because I was tired and exhausted and just ready to have my baby out of me!! This time around however, I am having PLENTY of time to read up on c/b and of course I am one of those people who worry about the bad things, and just have this horrible feeling, that I am going to bleed/hemmorage or worse... I have read somewhere that repeat c/b are riskier because the dr's have to deal with scar tissue that is likely to bleed more.. is this true?? Also last time, I was given an epidural, but everything is just so foggy to me. I had my dd @ 12:47 pm, but I didnt get to see her until almost 6:00 pm, and I dont remember anything between those times, and I don't want to be like that again. I am assuming it was becasue I was so worn out between being in active labor and pushing for so long, and then the surgery just caused me to wipe out for that long? I am just really scared and since I am reading all of your c/b stories, I was hoping for some positive reinforcement!!! Thank you all so much









Angela
MadyCakes*
I can honestly say that my second csection carried less risk than the first emergency one I had. My scar was repaired and adhesions removed as well.

My second csection was great. I had a wonderful recovery and had very little to no pain. I had my baby with me in recovery the entire time. He even got to ride in the bed with me to my room. My first csection took an hour and fifteen minutes. My second csection was 30 minutes from start to finish. I went in at 12:45 to the OR. I looked at the clock as they were wheeling me into recovery at 1:15. I had my scar and adhesions fixed. I also was sewn with sutures instead of being stapled. I strongly recommend this.








Welcome to our little group!


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

YES!! A planned c/b is soo much easier than an unexpected one! With Tracy I labored for 16 hours on pitocin before I had my c/b. With Bryce I planned it. We didn't decide on the c/b until week 39 and I was 1 day shy of being 40 weeks when we had it.

My recovery with Tracy took a minimum of 6 months. This time around its been 4 weeks and I barely ahve any soreness!

We aren't planning anymore childrne but if we were to have a 3rd it would definetely be by c/b.

You are more in control os what happens and when it happens. You can choose your ob. You can prepare yourself physically and mentally. It is just a much better experience!

As for OTF question.... I had no problems in the hospital with my wishes. The only thing I would change is that they take the baby from the or and to the nursery to weigh and measure. I would have preferred he stay with us but it did make the sewing up much more relaxing...not sure why but it did. We didn't really room in. Mostly because he was in special care and partly because the hospital was awesome! When I had T they just let the babes cry. When we had Bryce the nurses held them, did infant massage, and little stretches. They were awesome!


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## MadyCakes (Feb 26, 2004)

Thank you for your responses!!! I think the worst part is just the initial waiting.. I think once the day finally comes, I will be mentally prepared and so anxious to meet my dd or ds that I wont even be thinking about this!! You all are a great team of ladies, and I am so glad to have found this board!! I think that the support system you all have here is awesome!!!

Thanks again )
Angela
MadyCakes


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

I have never had an emergency c-birth, but I do think that planned is better in a lot of ways- mainly in that you will have your own OB there.

My recovery was the very best this time, but I can't honestly say that I was calm going into this birth -I think that was *right* though, even my dh felt it- we were both very scared- in ways we weren't the first 2 times, and when we found out afterwards about the fact that I had begun to rupture, and the difficulty they had getting my ds out of me- things were not "good" and my body knew it, I think. I had originally thought I would go into labor before having this baby, and I DID feel much better after scheduling the birth,and knowing my OB would be there. I believe that scheduling the birth was right for me and my situation, but I can see how others would chose to labor first, and even to VBAC









As for the OP on this thread- the hospital was pretty good about all of my wishes, but I think that was mainly due to having discussed it all with my OB ahead of time, and complete rooming in of the baby (they had no chance to do anything I didn't want to him







), they even let me have someone stay overnight with me to help me care for the babe, which I did need, I was very sleepy that first night.

I think the recovery was best this time b/c I moved early, ate early (even prior to gas







), and switched to *my* preferred pain med as quickly as I could (morphine does nothing for me).

I wish I could have a sig line just for use in this thread







, it would be:
"Talk to your OB about double layer sutures, and report any internal incisional pain to your OB- oh- and listen to your instincts







"


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## KKmama (Dec 6, 2001)

This may not be the best place for this, because it's not directly c/b related, but you mamas are the most understanding and non-judgemental on all of mdc, so I'm bringin' it here... mostly I just want to whine, because I think a lot of this is hormonal...

Dh and I moved here ~ a yr ago, so obviously, I had to find a new person for my pg this time. I like my primary ob (A), but whoever's on call will be at my birth. There are 4 drs in the practice. A is fabulous. B is pretty good, a little more reserved. C is okay, even more reserved, seems doubtful about my VBAC and about "allowing" me to go past 40 wks (which I'm sure I will). D, in my opinion, has a really crappy bedside manner, and said very unprofessional things about VBAC in general (but she's pg, due in April, and leaving the practice, too).

Here's where my discomfort comes... (1) I had an appt last week with C. She was very rushed, but it seems like the further along I get, the less supportive she is of VBAC, which is kind of scaring me. (2) I just found out they'll be bringing on a new OB in April (I'm due 5/7), and I'm a little freaked out about how I'll feel if *that* is the dr. and I don't like her (because April is awfully late to try to switch to a new practice to avoid that). (3) I'm part of a local moms' hiking group, and there was just an online discussion of my ob practice, a lot of it not so flattering... (I missed out on this kind of thing when I chose the practice; I was new to town, didn't know anyone, asked my pediatrician--whom I trust--for a suggestion). The office staff isn't always the best--know that from experience. D is yucky--know that, and she's leaving. A few people had unflattering insights into C which unfortunately seem to resonate with (1) above. And the thing that freaked me out the most was a description of a delivery at which A was very rushed and caused an inverted uterus (big emergency) and then dumped it off on another doc... Aaaaaaaahhhhh!

I feel all kinds of doubts now. I definitely don't want a homebirth. There are no longer any CNMs in my town, and the hospital itself is much better than the surrounding hospitals, so I don't want to travel outside my town for care. This practice has better stats than the other 2 ob practices in town. My only other choice is a family practice that has 2 women drs., and they both do prenatal care/births (but I'm not sure if they do VBACs). I'm concerned, though, that if I do wind up needing a cesarean for legitimate reasons that an ob/gyn would do a better job at it than a family practice dr. (And to be perfectly honest, I see my odds of VBAC at about 50/50--I think I may just run out of time.) Part of the reason I'm considering looking elsewhere is that the "care relationship" with the CNM I saw when I was pg with ds fell apart by the end (and I was actually almost relieved to have the emergency so she wasn't at ds' birth). I just don't want to make that mistake again.

I think probably the best thing I can do is to call our doula and ask her to listen to me, and ask for her frank opinion of the practices in town. She's done a ton of births, pretty sure with all the drs. in town, so I think she might have more complete insight than a bunch of women each with an individual experience.

Anyone out there switched this late? Anyone gone with a family practice dr.? Anyone want to send me some calming vibes?


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

I am going to send you some calming vibes.

Sometimes people just say shit. I dont think you should let their rumors and gossip deter you if you feel comfortable with the majority of the practice and since the one you really dont click with is leaving than I wouldnt worry about it.

The practice I was in also got a new OB in during my pregnancy. I had to see her twice. Things did not click well at all. She was extra conservative. She was the first OB I went over my post op report with and when I asked her what "Patient faired well in the OR" She said that was a nice way to say I didnt die.









Anyway, I didnt click with her and she thought some of my ideas for the csection were a little wacked out. Guess what? She ended up attending my csection. And she was AWESOME! And I think she learned a lot from me by being part of my care for her future patients. (she was really green)

Go with your gut though. My dear friend switched at 34 weeks and didnt regret it for a moment. She just never clicked with the OB. He never explained anything to her, ran through her appointments, and talked down to her. (she has a phd and he treated her like she was a dumb ass) He also was big on inductions. And that didnt sit well with her.

Kim


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## KKmama (Dec 6, 2001)

Thank you, Kim. I'm going to make a couple of phone calls now.

Yeah, what I left out was that I wasn't sure if it was just a bunch of women trash talking. Also, I'm definitely crunchier than a lot of these moms (a lot of them are very, very mainstream)--nothing per se wrong with that, just that we may not be looking for the same thing. Also, don't know how much it applies to my situation... as I've said before, VBAC seems to be a "no man's (or woman's) land"...

Quote:

she has a phd and he treated her like she was a dumb ass
ha ha! That unfortunately resonates with me. I'm teaching general microbiology to future nurses while I finish up my doctoral dissertation. I'm tired of being treated like a brainless SAHM (not that SAHMs are brainless or should be treated badly!)... the nicest dr. doesn't do this, but a couple of the others are kinda there...


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

I switched OBs part way through my last preg. and was so glad that I did







That said, a new OB joined the new practice, and I really did not like her (trying to be nice here), which was a big factor in me scheduling my c-birth.

I wish I had advice for you, I say go ahead and call the doula and ask her opinion on the options you have, and I'll say a little calming prayer for you


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## ladylee (Nov 20, 2001)

KKmama-I switched late & everything was fine. I'm confident it was the right move for me. Good for you for not settling.

"I think once the day finally comes, I will be mentally prepared and so anxious to meet my dd or ds that I wont even be thinking about this!!"-MadyCakes

I bet you'll find you're right. Angela, I also felt the things you felt about a repeat C. And my emergency C was not all that traumatic for me. But the planned birth was such a different experience-and I had a much better recovery. With the first birth I was fatigued from laboring all night and the disappointment, with the second we were able to be much more celebratory about it. We were able to create a welcoming atmosphere for our little Alena that was even more intense than what we did for her sister. I had my first daughter at a hospital in NY, the second in CA. Both hospitals were absolutely amazing in terms of meeting my wishes for rooming in, immediate bonding, nursing ,etc. I wish you all the best!

The recovery for me was much better the second time around-the first time I had staples and my incision opened-very stressful. The second time I had stitches-no problems and six months later everything appears to be fine.


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

KKmama...I switched from mw to ob at 35 weeks this time around







I was nervous about the switch but like you said, the closer I got to vbac time the less they seemed supportive. The office I SWITCHED TO WAS MUCH LIKE THE ONE YOU ARE DESCRIBING in the way of vbac confidence. I, however, changed to repeat at 39 weeks. I was able to choose who I wanted. I jsut realized that vbacing wasn't really something I truly wanted. Yes, I wanted it but I didn't have my heart set on it and I did not want an ob who did not support my vbac decision and end up in the or anyway.

I had a doula but she broke her foot and had to bail and I couldn't find another one. I am much like you in that we moved here and I got pg the 4th m onth after our move. So, I also had to start over (I wouldn't have gone with my first obs anyway).

Do NOT be afraid to switch. It was the BEST decision I have ever made! My ob was great. I learned while on the or table that she was 62







and that she had spent a summer or 2 in africa teaching "safe" c/bs in the field for those women who needed them. She saw women die over there because of the care they had gotten in the or and it was her goal to make it so not one women would have to perish! She was also the ob that was most supportive of vbac...and they only gave me a 30% chance of vbacing







:


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

I was wondering how everyone here felt about about breech presentations and csections.

My sister an OB nurse thinks its ok with babies under 8lbs and a proven pelvis. This seems to be some type of guide I guess that the medical establishment uses. Who knows? I know a few of us had deliveries due to breech babies. My first was transverse.

Kim


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

Good question OTF-

Well, as I have mentioned before, every OB or midwife I have ever seen has said I would not be likely able to deliver vaginally, but OBs were willing to let me try in a hospital setting (I believe due to the fact that they don't want the reputation of telling women that their pelvises are too small- we know the flack they get for that). Anywho- when my first child was breech at 36 weeks, I was given my options by my OB- a version, attempt breech delivery or c-section. She was very clear that it was my choice, although admittedly, she did not suggest going to a chiro for Webster, etc. She did say there were exercises I could do at home(that she would've instructed me on), but felt it was dangerous, as if the baby went into distress, I wouldn't know.

I asked her what she would do in my shoes, and she said that she would do either version or c-birth, as she felt with my knowingly small "unproven pelvis" and a baby whose head was measuring 40 weeks at only 36 weeks on U/S, that vaginal breech delivery would be dangerous, and I agreed (my dd's head was very large at birth too, and still is







- takes after her mama







). I asked her about her experiences with version and she said she had only done 3, one had been successful, one had resulted in emergency c-birth, and the last had not been able to be turned- she felt my chances were good, but frankly, it didn't sound like a good idea to me. (FTR_ she had delivered many breech babies vaginally)

I chose c-birth and decided that we would do an U/S immediately prior to check positioning. That morning (the morning of the c-birth), the U/S showed that the baby had moved (which I knew- I had felt the flip-oww!) and she was now a shoulder presentation, OB offered to try version, and I said "no", which surprised me and my mom (who unexpectedly felt the same way), when dd was delivered her cord was wrapped very tightly around her neck twice, and my OB (who had really pushed the version that morning) was very glad that we listened to my instincts







) And, yes, I am aware (for the lurkers







) that many babies are born with cords around their necks, and are fine- the fact is, some aren't, my Aunt had one such birth- and lost the babe.

There are certain breech positions I would never attempt version or v-birth with- such as footling (







Meg'sMom)

Wow- I put lots of







smilies in this post


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Jess thanks for your insight.

Though I have read about midwives delivering breech babies, I have read that there are just as many of those being transferred to hospitals as well. My grandmother had a vaginal breech delivery and as did both my husband grandmothers (theirs were at home) so I knew it was possible, BUT all of their breech births came after first children.

My sister worked in a teaching hospital here as an L&D nurse. She said she saw vaginal breech deliveries, some were easy, some were violent, she said some failed and they had to do emergency csections for various reasons.

I think you were very wise to avoid the version. I personally feel they are dangerous. Mine was traumatic for me and for my baby. Had I been aware of all the risks I would not have done it. I only did it because I was so desperate to avoid a csection and wanted a vaginal birth. Jack though not breech, shoulder presented against the cervix. (determined by ultrasound and confirmed when I was opened up)

I wish there was clearer evidence and more discussion about breech presentation and surgical birth.

Kim


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

I'm not sure how i feel about it. I havent done much research on the subject. I do know that I would never attempt a version. I've seen them done (on a Baby Story







and such). It looks terrifying!! Way back when they had to have delivered breech babes. Bryce flipped all the way to the end. I know he was breech the day before my c/b and was head down that morning. I could feel the flipping and I gree with Patty...OUCH!

I think the webster technique has many merits and is far less invasive. It is simply pressure applied to a muscle with a finger. It isn't a whole hand. There is no tugging or pulling. The only question for mom is "Why is baby breech?" There are some obvious reasons why baby would present that way.

So, I guess the question is more of a matter of risk. Would you risk turning a baby that should not be turned?

I had webster done with Bryce but not because he was breech. It was because he was too far over. His head was missing my cervix and hitting my hip bone. After webster was done...more than once to correct the problem. Bryce would slip right into place.


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## KKmama (Dec 6, 2001)

Thank you all for your support... I'm going to talk to the doula this weekend, and I chatted with a friend who's a midwife but lives in another state (unfortunately for me, otherwise, I'd love to have her do my birth). This friend has helped a lot, too (she gave me a lot more insight into cord traction and uterine inversions).

I need to find out more about our new insurance (changes 3/1) before I talk to the family practice dr. (because the staff asked questions I couldn't answer). Also, I want to talk to the doula first. I'm also thinking that if I do stay at the ob practice, I'll try to schedule the majority of my remaining visits with the "best" dr. Then, if I go into labor, I think I'll be fine with whoever's on call (can't stop a moving train), and if I don't, I'll have a C with her, and I will have avoided the stress of seeing the others. And I'll get more consistent care.

My dh talked to his higher-ups about time off after the baby, too, and it looks like he'll take about 3 wks paid. Woo hoo! *That* makes me feel really good.

As far as breech goes... It seems like most drs. (don't know about midwives) have little or no experience with or teaching about vaginal breech births anymore, especially with 1st time moms. It's not necessarily the best reason for a C, but I don't know that I'd want a dr. doing something she/he didn't really know how to do or do very often...

I've never heard of the Webster technique. What is it?


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

Basically there is a pressure point along the front of your hip bones. By pressing this point it causes the cradle (or the muscles that hold the bottom of your uterus) to relax in such a way that the baby is able to flip and slip into place.

I think that is the easiest way to describe it.... When I had it done it allowed the baby's head to slip frommy right hip bone down into my pelvis. My chiro said that out of 6 he has done 5 have worked. The 6th was so lodged in there that the ob had problems getting baby out.


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

All of your posts are so fascinating to me!

I'm going to answer the first question posted. I had never even considered the possibility that I would have a c/b. Baby was always head down, wasn't measuring super big, and my ob never questioned my ability to delivery vaginally. However, ds had other ideas and decided to present posterior and to not engage, two things I had done NO research about (and had I, things might have turned out differently). That said, my only knowledge about the delivering hospital's practices (and the practices of all my alternatives, too, for that matter), was that there was no 24 rooming in, but baby would room in from 9am-last feeding (11pm-midnightish), and would then go to the nursery and be brought on demand for feedings or every 3 hours, whichever came 1st (they were very good about this part, actually). I could live with this arrangement (what choice did I have?). I had also been told during my hosp. orientation that in the event of a c/b, baby would be brought to me in recovery. Ha.

Well ... rooming in ended up being a non-issue as ds was severely jaundiced and under the lights in the nursey for 2 days starting 30 hours after his birth. But worse than that -- and something I'm still stewing about -- is that, despite the fact that there was nothing medically wrong with either ds or me (case in point, his Apgars were 9 and 9), he was not brought to me until I made it to my room over 4 hours after his birth, and then only for an hour or so b/c by that time, it was 1am or so (ds was born around 8pm). And I only saw him in the delivery room for about a minute (they didn't even hold him up for me to see immediately after his birth). I only saw him b/c dh had a digital camera and was taking photos and running back and forth from ds to me (modern technology is wonderful). And the nursery wouldn't let dh hold ds either until he was bathed (and dh didn't want to make a scene -- in his defense, we were both exhausted and hungry at this point -- very long labor preceeded c/b). The nursery nurses (except for one) were AWFUL -- totally anti-AP, not very supportive of bfing, etc., etc.

Knowing what I know now, I hope to NEVER deliver at this hospital again. The problem is, my current ob (who I don't love but don't hate, either) is willing to do a VBAC (feels like I'm an excellent candidate) if I leave at least 2 years from birth to birth, and obviously, she knows me best at this point. She only delivers at this one hospital, though. There is a more mom-child friendly hospital in the area that I would really prefer to go to, but the problem is finding a new mw or ob who will accept me as a VBAC (difficult around here). So I don't know what to do. I have TONS of time to figure this out, but I really don't know what to do. Stay with the devil I know or switch to the devil I don't?

Any thoughts?

Oh, and welcome new person who's name I can't remember (sorry ...).


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Amy,

Put the word out before you ever concieve. Try to find someone now when you arent pregnant, do some soul searching. Do things to empower yourself to have a VBAC and prepare your body. Figure out what you can do differently the next time, even if you are to have a csection.

{{{hugs}}}

Kim


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

I was wondering if the c/b mommas would share what their babies apgar scores were. Time and time again I hear from people that csection babies have lower apgar scores, but of all the csection mommas I know there babies had pretty good apgar scores. I would say that "bad" apgar scores that I know about from friends and relatives are equal with c/birth or vaginal deliveries.

My daughters were 7 and 8. Keep in mind I had a failed version that caused fetal distress that lead to an emergency csection.

My middle child, born by csection had apgars of 8 and 9.

Jack's apgars were 9 and 9.

And how many of you were really concerned with how your baby would even be scored?

Kim


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

#1- 8 and 9
#2- 8 and 9
#3- 9 and 9








Good question! You're making this thread interesting OTF!


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## ladylee (Nov 20, 2001)

#1- 8 & 9
#2 -9 & 9

I come across that as well, OTF.


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## gina (Aug 30, 2002)

hi all,
happy to have found you- i love my march mamas thread and wish i had found you sooner- i am having a c-section tomorrow- i'm not conflicted about this one as i have many indications that it is safer to do this than to labor.
now, my first birth, on the other hand... i have found myself so upset about my first c-section- it was 3 years ago and i have worked through much of it- but it has been hard to forgive myself and the "system" and to recognize how much it has cost me since then-
anyway, i appreciate this board- i look forward to checking in w'you-


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## Morgraine (Mar 1, 2004)

I was birthing at home. I was fully dialated and 10 cm when my Midwife showed up. I was so glad to see her b/c I had been breathing thru the push urge for 30 minutes. She of course confirmed my worry. Breech presentation. We called the hospital to let them know that we were on our way. All was calm, I was doing well, and so was my son. And the rest (one year later is still hard to discuss) was sureal. I had an emerg C section. I call it a section b/c I believe that birthing is something that women do, and I felt like I wasn't even there. I left the hospital 13 hours later. I had VERY painful gas for 12 days. I would love to do a VBAC at home. . . but will I be able to find anyone help me? That remains to be seen. The way he was born does not bother me, rather the way I was treated and the disregard for my wishes.
And the worst thing was that there was a Dr. on the ward who specialized in breech birth!
Loving life and Being a Mom


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

Gina- you will be in my thoughts as your child is born







It is so good that you are at peace with the c-birth, that'll make a big difference in the surgery and recovery.

Morgraine- I am sorry to hear about your disappointment in your birth, and how badly you were treated in the process, I hope you feel comfortable sharing and working through it all with us







. Was there an agreement with your midwife that she wouldn't deliver a breech baby? Was it an unusual breech presentation? From the folks on this forum, you would think all midwives were well trained and comfortable with breech delivery







:


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## Morgraine (Mar 1, 2004)

In Ontario Canada midwives are covered by the our health care plan. There is no cost. They are a self regulating profession. Their scope of practice requires transfere of care to a Med Physician.

I think that a planned cb is probably easier to cope with in some ways. I am very glad that I did have the chance to labour. Who knows?

In the news lately there is lots of Hype about an elective cs. I can't understand it. And what I do understand scares me. Where is the magic and mystery of birth. Why would you choose to avoid it? How can I be more empathetic to women who choose elective cs? Any ideas?


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

I want to say that I am in no way supportive of women electing to have csection to avoid pain, save their pelvic floor or sex life.

I am supportive of women who choose to have repeat surgical births. Here is why. While there may be a 75% success rate of VBAC *and not I dont think that is an accurate statistic for the US* I think that women need to go with their gut and what they feel comfortable with. While rupture may be small for VBAC, some women may not feel comfortable with that small percentage. But rupture is not the only risk with VBAC. And I think that is often ignored.

For me planning my csection was crucial to me have a good outcome. I had no desire to go into labor. None. I don't think pushing a baby out of vagina or having horrific pain is the mark of a good woman or mother. I feel that this was safest, saneist thing I could do for myself and my baby. I knew the risks and I though they were far less than a VBAC. With a mullerian anomaly and a baby's shoulder presenting against the cervix, high blood pressure, and protien beginning to spill in my urine I felt comfortable with my decision to move forward with a surgical birth.


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## Morgraine (Mar 1, 2004)

on the fence - you seem very empowered by your experience. If I don't end up as a VBAC for whatever reason, I will remember your common sense on the issue.

One the issue of elective cs - For me this topic really gets my hackles up. I don't really think that planning the day and time of a babies birth is a very good reason for elective cs. To me that attitude is not conducive to enjoying a new baby. I mean they rarely "fit" into your schedual! That said I believe in women supporting and not judging other women. It is a great divide in some ways. I think that there are bridges. Compassion . . .


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

<<One the issue of elective cs - For me this topic really gets my hackles up. I don't really think that planning the day and time of a babies birth is a very good reason for elective cs. To me that attitude is not conducive to enjoying a new baby.>>

Many of his here planned our second (third or fourth) csections. I dont believe anyone here intentionally planned their first csections for just "timing". However, I will tell you that if I had a daughter in the position I was in the day she was born, I would have her plan a csection. (I had a transverse breech presentation and other complications, including broken ribs)

I was recently reading an article about women having csections to protect the pelvic floor. Ok, that is weird. Save your pelvic floor, but hey have all your guts cut through that will never be the same again with adhesions. O yeah, there is a plus -- NOT.


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

About the 75% success rat in the US. If I just go by the ppl I know IRL... 6 have had c/bs and only 1 has had a vbac. The others either opted for the repeat (2) and the rest were failed vbacs. So, just in my own little world 75% ain't right...

About saving the pelvic floor and your sex life....
I know several women who had to have c/bs after I had my first. They were completely distraught over it. One of the things I gave them as a plus (because sometimes you just have to find it in a situation) is that you didn't have to worry about tearing and it afecting sex. Yeah, that might sound really surperficial but i heard those same women say it because it is a "plus" in something that most ppl see as a "minus"

I would never have planned a c/b for convenience the first time. To me that is silly. but it really is no different than women planning inductions for conveneince. I know several women who on their very first ob appts schedule their induction. Now that is what I call jumping the gun.

As for needing to feel labor and pushing a baby out. That was the hardest thing for me to overcome mentally and emotionally. To know I won't ever feel it. Well, I've felt labor and while it was not that great I loved every minute of it. Just knowing my body was doing what is was built to do was amazing. I'm still sad that i didn't labor and birth on my own. But you know what, I don't ever really think about it unless I think about it on purpose. I don't jstu have thoughts in the day about...Oh boohoo I washed I had pushed a baby out my vagina!

i could go on but I have a crying baby and a quiet toddler....


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

I think the VBAC success rates I have read are not very accurate. Of course it may depend on where you live. I do know women who have had succesful VBAC and HBAC. But I know just as equal failed VBACs as well. One of the failed VBACs was a woman whose dr put his foot down at the 42 week mark. And they knew when she concieved because she had fertility treatments. They did cervidil over night and then started on a low dosage of pit the next morning. At 42 weeks her baby was still high and she was barely a one. By noon the next day she was at a 2 and baby was really high. They even did an US to see where he was! After the US the mom just gave in the towel. The dr doesnt know why she didnt go into labor, never responded to an induction, or why the baby was not engaged. He was puzzled. Sometimes it just aint meant to be.


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

Here is my birth story....

http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...hreadid=120755


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

Megan, I read your story- it was very nice







, I like how you didn't make any apologies about your decision









And to OTF- let's just say- I've been reading around







, and Thank You and







, I just don't have the energy for it, or even the will, but I am glad you do, it's nice to have someone speak for me, even if it does feel like this


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

Why should i apologize? I did not give birth to my sons the way that i did for statistics or to make a point or to have something to brag about.

My birth experience is just like my life. it is what "I" make it to be.

kwim?? I think sometimes ppl do what they do to prove something. I remember someone recently (i remember but not saying who...so you might know too







) a first time c/b mom saying that she didn't feel like she had much of a story to write about her c/b birth. It was planned due to baby positioning but she felt like it wasn't much of a story.

I felt so bad because she had this feeling that her story wasn't worth sharing because it wasn't all "natural". She didn't have her baby at home or in water or on the highway. She just had her baby.

Not that i could read her mind but I'mr eally jsut generalizing and she popped into my head









But I think some women have been fooled into thinking their birth has to be abc in order to be a "worthy" birth.

Why can't we all jsut make babies, be excited about them, and give birth? Why does it have to be a contest about who did things the "right" way? Is there really a right way?


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

ITA!







You go girl!









And, yes, I know who said that, and I felt bad that she felt her birth story was not important, and I was glad when she realized it was







I have chosen not to post my birth story, as it's not a positive c-birth experience (except in the outcome which is what matters), and I don't want to add fuel to the anti-c-birth vibe in certain places, YK? I liked how you spoke well of all the people in the OR, which I would not be able to say the same about, so I only told my story on here.

I hope you know that when I said I was glad you didn't make apologies, that I was not implying that you have anything to apologize for









I know what you mean about doing things to prove something. I secretly (well I mentioned it here :LOL) wanted to birth this baby at home, it kept running through my mind that maybe it *could* happen that way. Not until after the birth was I so very glad that it didn't happen that way, and I have to honestly say that if it weren't for coming here (MDC) I never would've had that longing (to birth at home), and I never think about it(the fact that all my kids were born via c-birth) as a *negative*except when I am here.


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by jess7396_
*
I hope you know that when I said I was glad you didn't make apologies, that I was not implying that you have anything to apologize for







*
Oh, I knew that! You of all ppl no you don't have to amke apologies









Quote:

I never think about it(the fact that all my kids were born via c-birth) as a *negative*except when I am here. [/B]
Thats sad isn't it. I get that feeling every once in awhile. That is why I stay away from the B&B forum especially. If you look quite a few of the posts are negative c/bs and mainly from women who have never had one. They are just quoting articles and such.

yes, I think that c/bs are done way too often. But until we, as a whole, decide that the "medical" way isn't the best all the time then it isn't going to change. No amount of screaming "No more C/Ss" is going to change anything. That is just how things are. Because lets face it. In some cases it isn't just the best way it is the ONLY way!


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## UD_CHICK (Sep 17, 2003)

Hi there ladies!

If you're wondering why I haven't posted lately, it's because I just got home from the hospital. I have quite a tale, but I'll keep it brief.

Tuesday 24 Feb at 6 pm, I came down with what doctors suspect was the Norwalk virus (violent vomiting and diarrhea). Called DH, told him to come home NOW! By about 6:30, I was 'empty', so the dry-heaves commenced. Called the doctor at 7:15 - I was having MONSTER contractions every 3-5 minutes - not like I'd ever had before. And let me tell you, dry-heaves and contractions are not fun. Was instructed to head to the hospital.

Got to the hospital around 8:30, bucket in hand. Needless to say, at L&D triage, they put me in my own room and masked, gloved and gowned up. I told them that I didn't want to have the baby that night, that I had a planned CB for Thursday. They seemed a little shocked at that (my OB wasn't on duty, and I didn't know the on-call doctor - but, a friend of mine who worked at the hospital told me she was good so I wasn't too worried.) The doctor said, "Well, let's check you out and see what's going on."

So they hooked me up to an IV (I was severely dehydrated), gave me some serious anti-nausea medicine (which worked pretty well) and then waited to see if the contractions slowed down. After 7 bags of fluid, and about 6 hours, I was READY for my son to come. The doctor wasn't really happy with his heart-rate - too high for a while- so my bouncing baby boy was born via CB at 3:09am on Wed 25 February. His apgars were 8 and 9, so he was no worse for wear from the virus that made me (and our ENTIRE family) very much the worse for wear!

As many of you know, I was agonizing about having a repeat CB versus a VBAC. The doctor wouldn't have let me deliver vagnially - I was simply too weak. In addition, she told me I had severe scarring and adhesions (some of the worst she'd ever seen). Before we started I told her we were interested in having two more children - so she spent a lot of time trying to repair things. She said we would be able to have more children under close supervision with a planned CB. That's OK with me!

My son and I were in an isolation room. Anyone who came in had to put on a gown and gloves. We were set to go home on Sunday, but by Friday I had developed a UTI/Kidney infection and then on Sunday I was diagnosed with cellulitis of my abdomen (skin infection). I then got to meet some of Washington DC's finest infection medicine specialists. I've been on intravenious antibiotics since Monday.

I was released today (8 days after the birth) with a mid line IV. A nurse will be visiting us for the next 4 or 5 days to administer IV antibiotics once a day.

This has really been a remarkable experience. Here are some of the High/Lows:

Lows:
- 9 days away from my daughter and husband!
- having to interrupt BFing for 40 hours b/c/o misinformation about the safety of bfing with one of the antibiotics they tried
- Bizarre skin infection!

Here are some of the up sides:

- My son is gorgeous, wonderful, a beautiful baby!
- the birth experience (once I received my spinal and got some pain relief) was a wonderfully intimate experience. Though I had just met the doctor, she was wonderfully experienced with a wry sense of humor. The anesthesiologist and nurse-anesthetist were the same ones who helped me deliver my daughter 2 years ago! Imagine the statistical improbability of that!
- The nurses and clinical assistants at my hospital were wonderfully supportive, empathetic and sympathetic. They helped me through the lows and celebrated the highs with me. I bonded with many of them. They shared their own stories of challenges during child-bearing and life in general. They were truly remarkable. It was a wonderfully affirming experience to be surrounded by such amazing women.
- My doctors were amazing. The Pediatrician made sure to write my son's discharge orders so that he would be discharged with me (since he was ready to go home days before I was). That way we didn't have to be separated.
- My family was so supportive, they visited, took care of my daughter and did everything they could to keep my spirits up.

Despite the drama of my son's entrance and the complications, this was a wonderful birth experience - very positive and affirming. I'm already looking forward to bringing home my kids' next playmate! (Though I want to get well recovered from this one first!)

Thank you all for your support during this process! Good Luck to everyone who is trying to make a decision and who is recovering and enjoying their new family member.

deb


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## UD_CHICK (Sep 17, 2003)

I forgot to add - he was 8lbs 9oz!

He's alert and has a latch like a vacuum - both my nipples are bleeding now, but we're working out our latch issues (mis-positioning). I think now that we're home and people won't be walking into the room to take my/his vitals or mess with the IV, we'll be able to focus a bit better.


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Deb, I am so glad you and your baby pulled through such an illness and you were still able to have a good birth experience, even though not under ideal circumstances!

I am glad they worked hard to repair you and sew you up really good so you can have more babies! It is great to have a wonderful staff that works with you and not against you.

I hope you can recover from this sickness quickly and be back to yourself soon.

We want to see a pic of that beautiful baby boy!!!

Congrats again!!!!

Kim


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

UD_Chick Congratulations on the birth of your babe. Make sure his lips are outward on the breast(like when he latches pull the top and bottom lips *out*on the breast)- that was what made mine bleed with dd and ds#1, I corrected it right away with this babe and nipples never bled







Just a thought!

Sorry to hear you were so sick going into this and are still on antibiotics- YUCK! But, you gotta do, right?

I hope you are enjoying your babymoon! Come join the Jan/. Feb. 2004 mamas thread in Life With a Babe, IOF and I are there


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## KKmama (Dec 6, 2001)

Ack! Ack! I've written 2 long responses and lost both of them! Let's just say that I've been thinking about the moms having their babies, and I can't wait to hear more.

I'm also officially retiring from looking at other threads in Birth and Beyond for the rest of my pregnancy, so y'all will have to let me know when the c/b subforum is set up.









Did I ask anyone for a c/b birth plan? I've been getting my birth plan ready, and I think I've got the VBAC part in good shape, but I was hoping for cheat sheet from someone here for plan B.


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## Dawnalex (Jan 21, 2004)

Guess what were having????

A BOY!!!!
I guess Luke was right, he has been telling us since day 1 it was a bother LOL....

They werent going to do an ultrasound today but because of some of the pains i have been having they decided to. Im glad








We got some great pics!!
Things went well, i am 18 wks (for some reason i thought i was farther who knows!)
The c-sec is scheduled app for July 12 unless something happens before then. I will go in on July 11 and get an amnio done and if everythings ok theyll do the c-sec the next day.

I am on lifting restrictions...no more lifting more than 15 lbs and they put me back in physical therapy YAY..
But im nervous about telling my Physical therapist that i am pg again LOL...shes really neat though..

I am excited that things are going so well







I just wanted to update you guys on me...i know i dont post that much lately i have been in lurker mode LOL..

Hopefully ill get out of it soon.


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Hi all,

I really want to see the people who post here keep this thread and subsequent threads alive on Mothering. I am taking a break.

My Cbirth birthplan is in the other thread if anyone wants it and would like to use it. You can PM me or email me at [email protected] if you have any questions about it or what type of pain management I used.

I hope all of you who are waiting to give birth have successful births with healthy babies, whether that be through repeat surgical births or VBACs.

Also, dont let anyone question your motives and choices, stay strong!










Kim


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## ladylee (Nov 20, 2001)

Take care, OTF.









Congratulations, UD CHICK! What a wonderful birth.

And congratulations Dawnalex!

How is everyone recovering that birthed recently?

My daughter is six months old-still have a little numbness and my incision itches fiercely! Yesterday I was thinking about the midwife that contributed to c/b #1 and of course affected c/b #2.
I never felt the need to confront her, and I did forgive her. But I'm feeling the need to write her a letter and share my experience w/c/b #2, just so she's aware of the impact of that event (she doesn't know I've had a second child.) She needs to fully understand how her part in the c/b went on to affect my next birth.

Other than that, I'm truly experiencing more and more acceptance and closure.

I'm happy about that.


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## TexasSuz (Mar 4, 2002)

OTF,

You deserve a break. Take some time to recharge your batteries. But please come back to us when you are ready. I can't even begin to tell you how much you have meant to me. Discovering this thread, getting some valuable information, and finding support and people who understood my csection experience has been wonderful.

I know that because of you and this thread, my next csection will be a much better experience. Thank you for all the work you do to help support us csection AP mom!
























You are a hero in my eyes!

Susan


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

OTF- I understand completely, but will miss you holding us together, hope you can take your time away and come back like Ladylee has







You will be missed greatly. Thank you for helping me out so much with this last c-birth, and helping me come to terms with all of my births- with NO APOLOGIES!









I'll be e-mailing you soon


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## Megs Mom (Mar 19, 2002)

My recovery continues to be excellent. Just the tiniest bit of numbness. I am only limited in activity by time, not at all by physical ability.

Catherine has to have a hernia repaired surgically on Monday.







Any moms who have spent nights in the hospital with babies, please advise. I was in with Meg one night with RSV and it was just awful. BUT! This situation is a private room which will be so much better, at least.


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

Do we know when the new forum will open?? I've seen MamOui post (she is the mod right??) a couple times lately so...

OTF..>Come back soon!! Like others have said, I've really appreciated your input and help on a lot of different levels!

Ladylee--Thank you for coming back!!!

My recovery is awesome! Bryce is 5 weeks 2 days old. I have numbness in my incision but that is fine. I'm losing weight. I can't get over how gross my tummy looks! Not from anything in particular but from just losing a baby tummy









I had some skin iritation in the beginning. Anything rubbing across my skin KILLED. But that is mostly gone. My incision looks great and I have no muscle soreness anymore. I feel great and I'm pretty much back to everything normal...even my pre-pg clothes


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## Monkey (Jun 21, 2003)

congradulations ud_chick!

so happy for u and new baby, glad you are doing well







s!


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## ladylee (Nov 20, 2001)

Things got a bit ugly last week and they're reconsidering giving us our own forum:

http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...85#post1162185










This topic does touch upon people's emotions-it's hard for it to not spark controversy and division, as much as I wish it wouldn't.
I can understand people feeling angry and frustrated that they aren't "heard"-sometimes it's very difficult to not get personal. I certainly don't want to diminish anyone's anger, and even though things got heated I know at least it's a way for some to fully own their power by expressing their anger and that's good. Even if it means we don't get our own forum.


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## Susu (May 31, 2002)

well, that's bad news for me. i was really looking forward to the new forum. i'm pregnant now and busy with a toddler so i don't have a lot of time to sift thru long threads to find the information i want.


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## ladylee (Nov 20, 2001)

I know, Susu.

I personally think having our own forum would prevent a lot of conflict, as opposed to having both sides come into contact with each other on general threads within Birth and Beyond.
I hope MDC gives the cesarean sub forum a chance-maybe test it and see how it goes. It would be a shame to prevent it based on the actions of just a few people.


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

According to Cynthia there is no definite answer made. They are still talking about the benefits and the "dangers". I think they are smart for thiking carefully about the new forum. I would love to have it but I'm also wondering about the negative side of it.

KKmama--I've also stopped reading the threads in this forum. Welll, I read my own


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## ladylee (Nov 20, 2001)

As I said initially, it is being reconsidered.

These conflicts will come about periodically whether there's a cesarean sub-forum or not.


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Well if we dont get the forum its probably going to be because of me and my big mouth and to all of you, I give my deepest apology. I think we need the forum. I don't think AP or natural mommas should be excluded because we had surgical births.

Going back to lurkdom...


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## Cajunmomma (Nov 21, 2001)

Wow!!! I've been busy for a while, and I missed watever it was that caused the controversy that you're all talking about. Can somebody give me the short version?

Just from reading what you've all been saying though, I have to say that I'm confused and a little bit angry. I know that Mothering has an "anti-c/section" bias, and I've always tried to interpret it as as "pro-natural" birth thing. But, without knowing exactly what's going on, it sounds a little like those of us who have had c/sections and aren't embarrassed or ashamed or humiliated are being treated like people who shouldn't express their opinions for fear of influencing others. I would never counsel anyone who could give birth naturally to have a section, that's just not the way nature intended for it to go. But, likewise, I don't appreciate being made to feel like less of a woman or mother because of the way that I gave birth.

My children are happy and healthy and I not only breastfed, but am still breastfeeding an almost 3 year old. If I had listened only to the things that I have read in Mothering, I don't think that I would even have tried. And that makes me very sad. I wish I could turn to them for the support that they always seem to give everyone else.

Just my opinion.


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## ladylee (Nov 20, 2001)

Hi Cajunmomma-I'm too tired to summarize recent events, sorry. :LOL I'd rather make a fresh start. Here's the link to the new Cesarean support circle thread:

http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...hreadid=122475


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