# "I wish you wouldn't say 'please' to him."



## liberal_chick (May 22, 2005)

:

This is what my dh said to me tonight after I asked ds to "sit down, please" in his high chair while we were out to dinner.

I'm a big believer in teaching by example, giving respect to get respect, etc. If I want ds to say 'please' to me, I should say 'please' to him, right? That makes sense to me, but dh says that he'll learn to say 'please' b/c he's made to and that we are here to basically force compliance. Saying 'please' makes it seem like an option and when he tells ds to do something there is no option.

At 20 months we are just now getting to the point that we need to start laying some loose rules and such, so I may be off base here (but I really don't think so).

Anyway to sway my dh over to a more gentle way? We were both raised in yelling, spanking households and while I'd like to break away from most of that dh is of the thought that he turned out just swell and so will ds.


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## libranbutterfly (Jan 12, 2007)

I wish I could help, but DH is the same way







I will be watching this thread.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Wow. So he WANTS you to be rude to your child?







:

Well, fwiw we have always been polite and asked our dd to do things using please and thank you, and now at 2.5 she is an *unusually* polite and well mannered child (if I do say so myself







)

Even when she's feeling difficult (trying to get out of the house, she doesn't want to cooperate...) she'll say- "no thank you mama, I don't want shoes"







It sure beats the pants off of the standard screamed NO that you hear from most kids that age....

-Angela


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## TheDivineMissE (Mar 31, 2006)

I agree with your strategy of modeling manners. Heck, I even tell my dog, "Sit, please!"







My three year old has done very well learning to say please, thank you, you're welcome, excuse me, I'm sorry, etc all by example. It's my feeling that to teach a child to respect someone they have to first know what it feels like to _be_ respected.

Good luck with your husband - keep setting your good example! Maybe he'll pick it up too.


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## lisac77 (May 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Wow. So he WANTS you to be rude to your child?







:

Well, fwiw we have always been polite and asked our dd to do things using please and thank you, and now at 2.5 she is an *unusually* polite and well mannered child (if I do say so myself







)

Even when she's feeling difficult (trying to get out of the house, she doesn't want to cooperate...) she'll say- "no thank you mama, I don't want shoes"







It sure beats the pants off of the standard screamed NO that you hear from most kids that age....

-Angela

I have had the same experience. I try to treat DS with the utmost respect and politeness, and it comes back to me tenfold because he is automatically polite now. I've never made a big deal out of it, never forced him to say please or thank you, I just always treat him with respect. The payoff is a polite child.

Why is this such a disconnect for your DH?


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## TabbyK (Jan 14, 2007)

DH and I have always said please to each other and the kids. I was amazed to find some people thought this was strange! All I can suggest is that when your child is absolutely no where in earshot, start talking to DH like he wants you to talk to your son (only on a more adult level - Hey you b*astard, get your a** over here and take out the trash!). I bet he won't like it one little bit and will quickly see how a little disrespect can turn into a lot. Who wants thier child treated like that, kwim?

K.


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## ledzepplon (Jun 28, 2004)

We always say please and thank you and you're welcome to our dd (and ds). People are ALWAYS remarking how polite she is. Kids learn by example.


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## liberal_chick (May 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lisac77* 
I have had the same experience. I try to treat DS with the utmost respect and politeness, and it comes back to me tenfold because he is automatically polite now. I've never made a big deal out of it, never forced him to say please or thank you, I just always treat him with respect. The payoff is a polite child.

Why is this such a disconnect for your DH?

Dh is not into AP or any aspect of it, really. And, I will admit, we scoffed at AP together in the beginning, but it just happened to be the way I naturally parented and I seem to grow into it more and more everyday.

He's just one of those "well, my parents did it and I'm just fine" people, you know? He encouraged me to give up pumping/breastfeeding when it got tough (which I regretably did







) b/c he was FF and he is fine. He wants to spank. He is the ultimate boss, end of story. I just have to get through to him that that isn't the BEST way, which is proving quite the challenge.


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## lisac77 (May 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *liberal_chick* 
Dh is not into AP or any aspect of it, really. And, I will admit, we scoffed at AP together in the beginning, but it just happened to be the way I naturally parented and I seem to grow into it more and more everyday.

He's just one of those "well, my parents did it and I'm just fine" people, you know? He encouraged me to give up pumping/breastfeeding when it got tough (which I regretably did







) b/c he was FF and he is fine. He wants to spank. He is the ultimate boss, end of story. I just have to get through to him that that isn't the BEST way, which is proving quite the challenge.


Sounds like he needs a technique that appeals to his authoritarian side. Will he read books at all? I've seen Anthony Wolf's The Secret To Parenting recommended as a first step for many parents who need to "see the light" in regards to parenting their kids. Do you think he would read it? I'm thinking of buying it msyelf....


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## frenchie (Mar 21, 2006)

I like to lead by example. I ALWAYS say "please" and "thank you" to my son. I have done this with him from the get go. He started saying please and thank you all on his own. I never *made* him say it. Now that he's almost 4, I gently remind him if he forgets. We don't respond to demands in this house. If he says, "mommy, get me some water", I remind him that we don't make demands to eachother, that we ask politely. He'll then say "mommy, will you please get some water".
I believe by not saying please and thank you to your child, you're (the collective you) teaching him to be disrespectful. If you want him to treat you with respect, it's important to lead by example.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *liberal_chick* 
.

He's just one of those "well, my parents did it and I'm just fine" people, you know? He wants to spank. He is the ultimate boss, end of story. I just have to get through to him that that isn't the BEST way, which is proving quite the challenge.

Sounds like we're almost in the same boat with our husbands. It's a hard place to be in. He calls GD "hippy bullsh*t"...yet he's at least willing to give some of it a try. It's a challenge, because we both parent differently, and it reflects in how our son responds to us individually. He LOVES us both, and is very attached to both of us. However, our son is much more responsive to my discipline than he is to my husband. My husband tends to make threats, and never follows through. I don't make threats...and if I say there will be a consequence to an action, the consequence WILL be carried out. My DH yells too much, bullies and patronizes our son. I used to get on his case about it all the time, but I was becoming a nag. Now, I try to intervene, or I just sit and watch, then pick up the pieces after all is said and done. DH has realized on a few occasions that he's being an a**hole, by our son's response. That is the time when I'm able to reason with him and point out ways to adjust his attitude toward his son. I know I'm not perfect...but I try as hard as I can to discipline gently.
Keep doing what your doing. If you ever need to vent or talk about dealing with your DH, feel free to PM me. We really are in similar situations with our husbands. It's nice to have somebody to talk to who you can relate with.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

What it comes down to me is respect. Why would I ask my children to show me respect if I show them none?

-Angela


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## irinam (Oct 27, 2004)

Did you ask him "why?" (aside from that's-how-I-was-raised-and-I-turned-out-fine thing)

You have a solid reason for your approach, does he?

I would listen attentively to his answer and if not ready to respond would promise to give it some thought. Then come back with my thoughts









ETA - never mind, I just re-read I see his reasoning. Sounds like he wants to issue "orders"


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## peacelovingmama (Apr 28, 2006)

Would your DH be receptive to a heart-to-heart? This is a big issue because it seems to boil down to how one views children -- as people worthy of respect or as subordinates to dominate. I would discuss your views and philosophies with him and let him know your goals for your children. Perhaps they are the same (e.g., that they feel loved, be happy and productive adults, respect others, etc.) and finding common ground would help reassure him that it isn't your goal to rear children without any discipline/guidance at all.

Also, I totally agree with those who have emphasized that this is a matter of respect. If DH does not show it for your child, then how can he expect his child to show it to him? Modeling is such a powerful way to teach children and if manners are important to you both, then I absolutely would model them every single chance you get.


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## EllenC (Oct 12, 2006)

I think this is the heart of GD. The point is you are treating your children with respect. I've always thought it was weird that most people treat strangers and acquaintances with more politeness and respect than their own family.


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## AntoninBeGonin (Jun 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lisac77* 
I have had the same experience. I try to treat DS with the utmost respect and politeness, and it comes back to me tenfold because he is automatically polite now. I've never made a big deal out of it, never forced him to say please or thank you, I just always treat him with respect. The payoff is a polite child.


That has been my experience, too.

I find it odd that your husband is against you being polite to your son. Out of all the parenting issues to argue about, why on earth pick that one? Is he possibly upset over something deeper and is using this as a way to vent?

~Nay


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Becky Bailey, who wrote "Easy to Love, Difficult to Discipline," is one who believes that we should not say please when we are commanding our children. Because that's basically what you're doing, right? Or is it optional that he sit down? If you're going to follow up with any sort of action if he doesn't sit down, she would argue that you are being passive-aggressive and merely confusing your dc by asking them with a please.

It's an interesting argument, and I've never quite decided how I feel about it. In a lot of ways, I think she's right. Especially with a 20 month old, who has limited language, and can more easily understand a direct sentence. I still find myself saying please a lot though.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah* 
Becky Bailey, who wrote "Easy to Love, Difficult to Discipline," is one who believes that we should not say please when we are commanding our children. Because that's basically what you're doing, right? Or is it optional that he sit down? If you're going to follow up with any sort of action if he doesn't sit down, she would argue that you are being passive-aggressive and merely confusing your dc by asking them with a please.

Well, I was about to flat-out disagree, then I realized the difference. I almost never command my children. I ask them. Unless it is an immediate, urgent safety issue- STOP that's hot. Otherwise I speak to them as I would expect to be spoken to by my dh or another loving adult (and if I was about to touch a hot burner, he'd say STOP too)

-Angela


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## Blue Dragonfly (Jun 19, 2005)

I actually struggle with what your DH is dealing with. I don't think I ever got an "order" with a please.

But, I do almost always say please, but wonder if I am wrong in doing so. However, it feels right to me. I think politeness and manners are really important, and the best way to show him is by modelling.

At 2, he's got great manners. He will forget his please and thank yous about 25% of the time. But I have also seen him say thank you to something five minutes later, all on his own.


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## peacelovingmama (Apr 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah* 
Becky Bailey, who wrote "Easy to Love, Difficult to Discipline," is one who believes that we should not say please when we are commanding our children. Because that's basically what you're doing, right? Or is it optional that he sit down? If you're going to follow up with any sort of action if he doesn't sit down, she would argue that you are being passive-aggressive and merely confusing your dc by asking them with a please.

It's an interesting argument, and I've never quite decided how I feel about it. In a lot of ways, I think she's right. Especially with a 20 month old, who has limited language, and can more easily understand a direct sentence. I still find myself saying please a lot though.

That is interesting. I do rarely "command" my children.

But I also don't see the use of "please" as passive-aggressive even if the request is ultimately mandatory (e.g., please get into your carseat) because it's the way I expect to be treated in the adult world. After all, my boss can fire me if I refuse to take a case but he still always says, "Kate, please prepare this brief/handle this oral argument, etc." It's hard to imagine him just saying "Kate, write this brief."

To follow that analogy, judges frequently say "please be seated/please approach the bench"/etc. and those are most definitely commands. It is about decorum and respect.

I personally think that even requests with consequences (aka "commands") can be delivered respectfully. I'm not convinced that the use of manners transforms a mandate into something optional.

ETA: ok, i'm on a roll here. another example from the world of law enforcement. traffic cop pulls over citizen and says "may i please see your license and registration ma'am?" optional? no. respectful? yes. i do think it would sound disrespectful if the cop just said "give me your license and registration." maybe it's all about intonation though because in this example, the sentence probably would not carry the intonation of a question. and i doubt many adults would understand it to be optional!


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## sincitymama (Sep 20, 2003)

Hmm. I am very polite and respectful to my son, we use lots of please and thank you here and he seems to be picking them up well. But I never say please if I don't mean it. He's 3-sometimes I DO tell him what to do, and it's not always optional. I do think saying 'please' makes the request optional. And I don't want him to learnt hat he can just tack please onto any request and that means he'll get it. (y/k, 'but I said please!')That's not what please means, to me. Doesn't mean I order him around like a tyrant either though









Respect can be conveyed well through tone as well as the specific words used. So I don't think a happy, upbeat, cheerful sounding 'ok ds, time to go get in the car hon. we're going to (wherever) remember?' is disrespectful to him at all. But I do think that 'please' makes 'no thanks' a viable response.

I use please plenty.
'would you please put that wrapper int he trash?' 'will you please take your plate to the sink?' 'please come upstairs while I take a shower, I really need one and I can't leave oyu downstairs by yourself'. These are all requests, and 'no' or 'wait a minute' are perfectly good answers.

What it boils down to is I treat him the way I want to be treated. I want people to be polite to me, to ask nicely, to use a respectful tone with me. I wouldn't want someone to say please, when they are actually giving me a command. Seems....I dunno, condescending?

So I guess all I'm saying is there's a middle ground. Not using please when no isn't an option, is not the same as being rude.


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## IAmAMamaToLogan (Jan 25, 2005)

I agree with many PPs that it's about respect. We have a similar issue in our house where I often say "please" and "thank you" to the boys and they, in turn, treat me with the same respect. My DH is always barking orders at the boys ("pick up your toys" "go upstairs" "get off of that") and, in turn, they are barky with him. I'm the one that waits a moment to remind them they need to say please.

If it's a non-critical issue, please is a must. Something non-negotiable allows for a kind voice vs barking orders ("You need to sit down now" vs "Sit down!"). I have no idea how to get your DH to see that but perhaps with time, he will realize how much farther mutual respect will get him.


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

I put "please" at the begining of the request rather than the end because it somehow seems to make it less of an optional thing....

Like, "Please sit in the seat."

If that doesn't work I'll say, " I NEED you to sit down now."

I rarely need to get to the second stage. One time that it happens is when I need a child to sit in the seat of the shopping cart or in their carseat. Those are not optional so I will insist if the first phrase doesn't work. This is especially important when I'm out with 6 or 8 daycare children.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lisac77* 
Sounds like he needs a technique that appeals to his authoritarian side. Will he read books at all? I've seen Anthony Wolf's The Secret To Parenting recommended as a first step for many parents who need to "see the light" in regards to parenting their kids. Do you think he would read it? I'm thinking of buying it msyelf....









: beat me to it. Great "bridging the gap" book for an authoritarian Dad.


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## JSerene (Nov 4, 2004)

I also put please at the beginning (or somethimes middle) of the statement.

I think what's most confusing for kids is when parents end every comand with "okay?" as in, "honey, put your shoes on, okay?" That makes it sound optional. This is one I try especially hard not do do.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

I think saying please and thank you is appropriate and helpful, but I am careful not to "ask" for compliance when it is non-negotiable, and I agree with the PP that following every request with an "okay?" is confusing to the kids. (Its a hard habit to break though.) To the OP: I wonder if your husband is confused. It sounds like he doesn't want you to frame cooperation as optional. But you _weren't._ Saying "please" is polite. But you were still giving a clear direction.


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## daisymama12 (Jul 2, 2006)

liberal_chick;7187179
Anyway to sway my dh over to a more gentle way? We were both raised in yelling said:


> I think liberal_chick already agrees that it's a good idea to say please and thank you with their ds, her question is how to help/convince her dh to do so as well...
> 
> Would it be possible or effective to have a heart-to-heart talk with him, as a previous poster suggested, and say what you wrote above... "we both come from homes where we were yelled at a lot, and spanked. I know you feel that it hasn't hurt you at all, but I think we can do better with ds. ."
> Or something along those lines. basically, acknowledging his point of view, but offerering alternatives. Maybe baby steps is the way to start, one issue at a time...
> good luck!


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## jellop (Dec 11, 2006)

We are a big "please, thank you" kind of family, and I do believe you lead your kids by example. How are kids to learn manners and respect if you don't teach it by example? My children have learned they do not get anything by demanding, by the example I set. People comment on how polite my kids are all the time (not bragging, just saying - I see the difference in how my kids treat others vs how other kids treat people). We were at a swimming pool, and my 4 yr old was trying to get another 4 yr olds' attention by saying, "Excuse me, sir. Sir, excuse me . . . " , it was quite funny to watch.

In the way of asking vs commanding, I realize there's some difference. I do not ask my kids to "please get out of the road a car is coming". I realize there are differences - however, if I'm hollering at them to get the h**l out of the road, they are jumping! Because that's not an ordinary action out of me, so they will respond - when you hear someone yelling at you all the time, you learn to just tune them out. There's been times I've asked my 4yrold to please do whatever and he says no thanks (but it's more something he HAS to do, I'm just trying to be polite), I'll tell him I'm not asking him, I'm telling him nicely that he needs to do *blank*. Now, if I ask him to pick up his toys, he'll say, "are you asking me or telling me?". I'm telling you politely, hunny, now please get it done.









Maybe with your hubby, you can try to get him thinking (remembering) about more how he felt being bossed around by his parents and treated more like a slave than an actual thinking, feeling human being worthy of respect and love - instead of the whole, "that's how I was raised, and I turned out fine". Good luck!


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## liberal_chick (May 22, 2005)

This is fabulous food for thought. Thanks for that!

I do often put please onto my commands, which I don't give too often. Sitting down in his high chair last night was not optional (we were all still eating and I was afraid he'd fall). Maybe I should have said "Ds, you need to sit down" in a nice tone.

Dh is very much a barky parent. Every command is made in a harsh tone and in a loud voice, which just isn't necessary, quite frankly. Telling ds not to touch the breakable ornaments on the Christmas tree is not a matter of life or death, but dh acts like it is.

I will pick up the book. Maybe if I leave it laying around he'll pick it up and read it. He won't read it if I outright suggest it. He is very sensitive about his parenting skills b/c he was in Iraq for ds's first 8 months of life. And he came back from Iraq with a very decreased patience level, which has a huge impact on the way he parents. Whereas I feel like throwing the blocks all around the room is a way for an almost 2 year old to play and explore, he thinks ds is being naughty and messing up the house on purpose.

Dh's mom is very GD (she's the one that got me turned on to Mothering Magazine and, in turn, MDC) and he is much more open to suggestion from her than me. Its a suggestion from her and criticism from me, KWIM? I'll see if she might casually suggest the book.

A heart to heart might work as well, but I'd have to catch him in the right mood.

Again, thanks for all the suggestions! I'll keep watching this thread...


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I always say please.

I NEVER say "O.K?". Because that makes it optional. "Sit down, O.K?"

Please is just polite. Why wouldn't a child deserve respect?


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## katallen (Jan 4, 2005)

I think you are right to be polite to your child. I have always used please and thank you with requests and my daughter who is four now continues to understand that I am being polite not giving options. He will learn what he is modeled for the most part though you do also have to lay down ground rules and redirect or say no to some things. Using manners and modeling is a way to teach your child how adults behave and a very effective way to teach young children because they mimick what they see. It may be that later you have an issue come up when you do have to push for compliance because of the situation or your stress levels, but for the most part redirecting and a firm reminder of the rules and expectations works especially in such a young age.

I would encourage you to sit down with your husband when you two are alone and talk about some of the rules that you want to have for your house and how each of you are comfortable enforcing them. Be upfront and tell him that you are not going to be comfortable with hitting or being authoritarian and you won't back him up in that but be open to backing him up in other cases, like time-out or telling your child to do something without saying please if he is a father that is involved.

If he is not very involved and you do most of the parenting especially daytime parenting then tell him that and that this is what works for you but when it no longer works you will try something else.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *liberal_chick* 
Sitting down in his high chair last night was not optional (we were all still eating and I was afraid he'd fall). Maybe I should have said "Ds, you need to sit down" in a nice tone.

Well, I like what you said better. Its not a huge big deal, but I've actually been working on rewording statements that I usually tend to begin with _"You need....."_ I'm not sure its respectful to tell other people what they need, and at some point he's going to think to himself, _"No, I don't need that."_ Putting myself in the child's shoes -- I would be more responsive to, "Please sit down," than "You need to sit down."

Also, I so often see caregivers repeating, _"You need to sit down. You need to sit down. You need to sit down."_ IMO, it can be pretty ineffectual.

Another way to say it is, "_Chairs are for sitting on_." or "_Put your bottom down."_

Quote:

Dh is very much a barky parent. Every command is made in a harsh tone and in a loud voice, which just isn't necessary, quite frankly. Telling ds not to touch the breakable ornaments on the Christmas tree is not a matter of life or death, but dh acts like it is.
This must be so hard for you! I wonder if this has something to do with his military background? It can be really hard to switch gears mentally, when you are used to a certain way of relating to people.

There is a book called "Raising a Family," http://www.amazon.com/Raising-Family...e=UTF8&s=books It talks about switching gears between work and home in order to be more "family minded." It helped my DH. And I see you can order it used for 1 cent, plus shipping!










Quote:

I will pick up the book. Maybe if I leave it laying around he'll pick it up and read it. He won't read it if I outright suggest it.
He is sensitive to critisism -- and that is understandable. What if you framed it this way: _"I'm thinking a lot about parenting lately, and how I want to raise our child. I wish I had someone to bounce ideas off of. Would you consider reading a few things, and talking with me? That might help me to clarify my own approach, and also help us with consistancy between the two of us."
_


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

I also say please - and have a very polite 3 year old (most of the time) to show for it. I think modelling behaviour is vital.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JSerene* 
I think what's most confusing for kids is when parents end every comand with "okay?" as in, "honey, put your shoes on, okay?" That makes it sound optional. This is one I try especially hard not do do.

I used to think that way, but dh and I have a tendency to say ok?, so I was reflecting on why that is recently. For us, we use it in a way that pretty much means "do you understand?" - but are careful not to use it in a patronizing manner. I think it stems from the fact that we are both of (at least partly) a German background and the word "ok" sounds a LOT like the German "verstehe"(sp?), which means "understand?" In fact, sometimes dh will say "verstehe?" to me when he's talking to me just to make sure I'm following what he's saying . . . (again, not in a patronizing manner, but in a genuine way - same way people say "know what I mean?").


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## guestmama9915 (Jul 29, 2004)

I never, ever force my children to say please, thank you, etc. They have learned by example only.

My daughter started saying please, thank you, and excuse me at an early age. She uses it consistently. She also used to say "I'm sorry" but I overused that myself and so she doesn't so much anymore.

Tough situation. Getting DH on board can be pretty hard. Good luck.


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## SuperMama (Jan 22, 2007)




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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *liberal_chick* 
Dh is very much a barky parent.
<snip>
He is very sensitive about his parenting skills b/c he was in Iraq for ds's first 8 months of life.

Not to play Monday morning quarterback or anything,







: but - suddenly this all makes sense to me. If he's in the military, he's probably used to orders and commands, as I don't imagine them saying "please forward harch!"








All kidding aside, though - It certainly doesn't mean he's correct and you shouldn't be giving your child the common courtesy you expect to get back from him, it just means that you can maybe understand more where he's coming from, and figure out a better way to address it with him.

I can guarantee you modeling the behaviors you desire is the best way to get them; the old, "children live what they learn" really is true. Forcing "respect" out of a child without giving it to them will only breed resentment...

Of course, I also read that he's viewing his role as a parent differently than you are (you mentioned his talking about 'forcing compliance' in your OP), and in that case, I highly recommend you get his mom involved in encouraging him to read some parenting books. In addition to Wolf's book, I'd also recommend "Playful Parenting" by L. Cohen. Also, maybe have mom talk to him about how SHE modeled courtesy/manners with him, and how well he turned out (you know, stroke the old ego).

Good luck, and please keep us posted!


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## MOM2ANSLEY (May 19, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *peacelovingmama* 
That is interesting. I do rarely "command" my children.

But I also don't see the use of "please" as passive-aggressive even if the request is ultimately mandatory (e.g., please get into your carseat) because it's the way I expect to be treated in the adult world. After all, my boss can fire me if I refuse to take a case but he still always says, "Kate, please prepare this brief/handle this oral argument, etc." It's hard to imagine him just saying "Kate, write this brief."

To follow that analogy, judges frequently say "please be seated/please approach the bench"/etc. and those are most definitely commands. It is about decorum and respect.

I personally think that even requests with consequences (aka "commands") can be delivered respectfully. I'm not convinced that the use of manners transforms a mandate into something optional.

ETA: ok, i'm on a roll here. another example from the world of law enforcement. traffic cop pulls over citizen and says "may i please see your license and registration ma'am?" optional? no. respectful? yes. i do think it would sound disrespectful if the cop just said "give me your license and registration." maybe it's all about intonation though because in this example, the sentence probably would not carry the intonation of a question. and i doubt many adults would understand it to be optional!

I agree. I remember laughing to myself when dd was not even 2 but would say " NO MAM' MAMA" If I did something she did not like.... If she was doing something "wrong" I would tell her No Mam, not that way, we do "XYZ" instead


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SuperMama* 
I think it is an issue of respect. I often say "please" to my two year old son, b/c I respect him as an individual. A situation may seem, to a parent, to have one obvious solution, example: the op's child was standing in his high chair, his parent's wanted him to sit down.
I agree, the child should sit in the seat. But WHY is he standing? This is where respect comes in. Sometimes I don't understand WHY my child is standing on his chair, but if I just MAKE him sit down, I might be missing the point. Maybe he is reaching for something on the table. Maybe he needs to use the restroom. He does have a reason for standing, and I respect that. If the reason is, he wants butter, I can help him get it, if he needs to pee, I'll take him. And once those needs are all met, then, "PLEASE SIT DOWN."

Good point, about respecting the desire behind the action.

I don't see "please" as necessarily indicating that something is optional. It's in your tone of voice. I don't say it all the time, even when things are optional. ("hey, let's get your coat on" - ds knows that a coat is optional). I try to speak to ds the way I'd feel comfortable speaking to an adult, kwim?
I DO agree that "okay?" DOES make something seem optional.


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## FLmom_3 (Jan 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Wow. So he WANTS you to be rude to your child?







:

Well, fwiw we have always been polite and asked our dd to do things using please and thank you, and now at 2.5 she is an *unusually* polite and well mannered child (if I do say so myself







)

Even when she's feeling difficult (trying to get out of the house, she doesn't want to cooperate...) she'll say- "no thank you mama, I don't want shoes"







It sure beats the pants off of the standard screamed NO that you hear from most kids that age....

-Angela

Ditto - except my dd is 3 and there will be the occasional "NO!" (more than I'd like sometimes) BUT she is very polite to others and says "please" and "thank you" more often than most her age (according to others, anyway). She always says please and thank you to waitresses, for example or at her daycare. I think she uses "NO!" with her sisters more than anyone, but who can blame her. They're ALWAYS in her personal space and trying to tell her what she can and can't do (they mean well but she can't stand it!) - we're working on that one. LOL!

My husband and I have different views on these things sometimes too because we were both raised the same way and it is difficult as someone raised that way to decide to make the change yourself but even more difficult to try and convince someone else who was raised that way also. I usually do most of the discipline though so we somehow make it through.

If all else fails (I know it's wrong), I use the guilt (how would you feel if...) and it seems to work with my dh by helping him remember she (any of our 3 dd's) is a person as much as he is (not "your the kid and I'm the adult" attitude).


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## zeldamomma (Jan 5, 2006)

What has helped me convince my husband to consider a different approach to parenting was to explain that I don't have the temperament to parent like he was parented. This way, I'm not criticizing the way he was raised (and in a round-about way, criticizing him), I'm just explaining that I need to be the kind of mom that suits me.

I think I would concentrate on explaining/defending what you do, rather than trying to change his behavior (assuming that he's not abusive, just a little "barkier" than you'd like). Teaching by example can work for all ages. I would also make a point of really listening when he does have a criticism-- if he can see that you respect him, he may not feel quite so strongly about demonstrating his role as an authority figure for ds.

HTH!

ZM


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zeldamomma* 
What has helped me convince my husband to consider a different approach to parenting was to explain that *I don't have the temperament to parent like he was parented. This way, I'm not criticizing the way he was raised (and in a round-about way, criticizing him), I'm just explaining that I need to be the kind of mom that suits me.*

I think I would concentrate on explaining/defending what you do, rather than trying to change his behavior (assuming that he's not abusive, just a little "barkier" than you'd like). Teaching by example can work for all ages. I would also make a point of really listening when he does have a criticism-- if he can see that you respect him, he may not feel quite so strongly about demonstrating his role as an authority figure for ds.

HTH!

ZM

Bolding mine. WOW. I really, really like these thoughts!!

And I do agree that teaching by example works for husbands







- I've seen my own DH using phrases and techniques that I use with our son. Not to toot my own horn, but I'm pretty sure with a different wife/family, he probably would have spanked, since he was raised that way...but I have shown him the light


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *liberal_chick* 
Anyway to sway my dh over to a more gentle way? We were both raised in yelling, spanking households and while I'd like to break away from most of that dh is of the thought that he turned out just swell and so will ds.

Sounds to me like your dh turned into someone who would rather make demands than ask nicely--as long as the person he wants to do something is smaller than him. Tell your dh flat out "I will not be rude to our child."


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## Aeress (Jan 25, 2005)

I use please except when dd is doing something that could be unsafe. For instance, we were shopping and I had accidentally picked a cart without the restraint, I stopped to ask for another one and she started to stand and jump. In that moment it was "SIT DOWN".

There are very few times when I don't believe that dd gets a choice and then I am more serious and less likely to say please when needing co-operation. This rarely happens and usually it is due to either a time constraint (which we try to avoid) , mommy stress or safety.

I think your DH may be under the assumption that you don't give a child a choice unless you are comfortable with the answer and he feels "please" allows wiggle room. I think alot of people are taught this concept, I know I was.


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## Jmo780 (May 3, 2006)

ITA with you!

We have 3 kids who we teach manners and politness too. You give it to get it IMO!

Yesterday, I told my oldest Ds (11) "Go get daddy and tell him to come here real fast!"

Dd5 said "Um, mommy, don't you think you should have said 'Go get daddy and tell him to come here real fast PLEASE?!'"









I told her yes, I should have said please, but I forgot, and good job for reminding me and helping me remember my manners









But I don't see "Please" as an option-To me/us it is a respect thing. I refuse to make my kids say please, thank you, excuse me, while we sit back and do non of that!

It works out well.

I hope it all works out well for you in the end too!


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## Lady Lilya (Jan 27, 2007)

My mother always said "please" and other polite things to us. Also, she would make doing a chore sound like a priviledge "you can put away that toy now." I find myself doing the same thing with my husband. "You can take out the garbage now." He gives me a sarcastic "thanks."

No kids yet. First is due in August.

I'm polite with the cats too. If one meows at me, I say "how can I help you?" or "what can I do for you?" If I ask them to do something, I am nice. If I am scolding them because they didn't do what they were asked to do, I drop the "please." I know the cats don't understand the words, but I guess it is just a habit I pick up from my mother.

In the OPs situation I would also have said "sit down, please," but if I had asked several times, I would eventually drop the please as it has then become a command in a scolding voice.

My father talked to us like subordinates to dominate. We were not worthy of respect until we earned it by being viable adults.

My father seems to see my mother's use of "please" to give instructions as passive-aggressive. I think as long as you ask first nicely, giving the child the option of complying voluntarily. If the child doesn't comply, then you can step it up a level to a command which has a tone clearly suggesting consequences.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaduck*
Well, I like what you said better. Its not a huge big deal, but I've actually been working on rewording statements that I usually tend to begin with "You need....." I'm not sure its respectful to tell other people what they need, and at some point he's going to think to himself, "No, I don't need that." Putting myself in the child's shoes -- I would be more responsive to, "Please sit down," than "You need to sit down."

Also, I so often see caregivers repeating, "You need to sit down. You need to sit down. You need to sit down." IMO, it can be pretty ineffectual.

How about "I need you to sit down" ? This implies that he is doing it for you because he respects and loves you.


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## chanale (May 6, 2004)

Refusing to saying "please" or "thank you" to a child yet expecting him/her to say it to others sounds quite illogical to me. DD is 2¼ and just started saying them a month or two ago. Whenever people gave something to her, I would always thank them instead of telling DD to thank them, but I would remark to DD privately how thoughtful the action was. DD responded by becoming more empathetic and kind to others in action even though she didn't start saying the magic words until recently.


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## Cassandra M. (Aug 3, 2003)

I didn't read all the responses.

Tell him children behave as well as they are treated.

and model model model the behavior you are looking for!


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## Ambrose (Apr 20, 2004)

I haven't read the thread except the OP but I just wanted to say that my DH doesn't say please that often but doesn't ask me to not say it with DD. What bugs BOTH of us those is that people we know tell us that when we say please we are giving our daughter a choice and when we want her to do something we should NEVER say please.







: I just wanted to gag at that.


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## Mama Poot (Jun 12, 2006)

Jumping in late....Stop saying "please" to your DH. See what happens. Then ask why he wants his child to be treated that way.







:


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

Quote:

How about "I need you to sit down" ? This implies that he is doing it for you because he respects and loves you.
Here's my personal .02: I don't _need_ anyone to sit down. I would _like_ for them to sit







My actual need would most likely be for _safety_. So not sitting in this particular scenario might have me worried, if standing on the chair put him in danger.

I am concerned about the implication of trying to get anyone to do something for me because they love me? We are talking about small children in this thread, so IMO, it's much more effective to tell them what you _want_ (rather than need) for them to do and a short why if appropriate.

At our house, the shorthand for how it's safe to sit in chairs is: Knees or bottom, please


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