# kids at playgroups



## dachshund mom (Dec 28, 2007)

I was run off from a play group yesterday by a little 4 year old.







To start, I'm not a kid person and have no idea how to interact with them. I'm learning as I go with 5mo DD. I'm not blaming this little girl at all, I just didn't know how to interact with her to get her to stop messing with me. lol.

So I was sitting on the floor with a bunch of moms with babies talking. This little girl started bringing books to me and I made comments like, oh it's about horsies, then went back to my conversation. She kept bringing more books and tossing them in my lap on top of DD. I was talking and did not want to go read to her. I finally said, I'm not going to read right now and started ignoring her. Then she was bringing toys and standing right in front of me so I couldn't talk. I kept saying, go play with the other kids, and putting the toys aside. Then she starting climbing on me and messing with my hair. DD started getting really agitated with all this, so I finally took her out of the room to nurse her and calm her down. The girl followed me and was jumping around on the couch and putting toys under my face. DD kept popping off to look at the girl. I got annoyed and we finally just left.

Could I have handled this better, or is this a reality of play groups and you have to deal with it?


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## purplepaperclip (May 19, 2008)

Where was her mom? Did she see any of this? I probably would have spoken firmly to her when she was really invading you and your baby's space and found her mother if she still did not stop.


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## Latte Mama (Aug 25, 2009)

All kids do not behave this way sweety! It sounds to me like she is starved for attention or maybe special needs? I would have definitely asked her where mom was and let her know what was going on.


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## dachshund mom (Dec 28, 2007)

She wasn't really misbehaving, just annoying me, so I was embarassed to call her mom over. Yes, I guess I was not firm in my tone. I need to practice that before DD gets much older. lol.


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## Youngfrankenstein (Jun 3, 2009)

This is normal but I think her mom should have stepped in. My dd would love to chat up and hug everyone repeatedly but I have to tell her some times to knock it off.


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

Yes the mom should have stepped in, but I can't see that she did anything wrong. 4 year olds tend to not get the whole personal space thing.

I don't know, I guess I expect adults to acknowledge my kids when they speak to them. I would have sent my kids off to play after a short conversation, but maybe the mom was busy with another child or something?


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## DaughterOfKali (Jul 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alyantavid* 
Yes the mom should have stepped in, but I can't see that she did anything wrong. 4 year olds tend to not get the whole personal space thing.

I don't know, I guess I expect adults to acknowledge my kids when they speak to them. I would have sent my kids off to play after a short conversation, but maybe the mom was busy with another child or something?

I have to agree with this.


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## Vancouver Mommy (Aug 15, 2007)

I have to say it gets so much easier talking to kids as your own get older. I have absolutely no problem addressing minor issues at the playground ("actually, it is his turn now, you'll need to wait", or "Please be gentle with smaller people") or making pleasant conversation with children I don't know well. A few years ago this would have stumped me completely. I think what has changed is that I now view them just as people, whereas before I found them very alien. Four year olds don't get subtlety either. I think I would have said "I have enough books now, please don't bring me any more. Maybe you could take some to you Mommy."


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## purplepaperclip (May 19, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DaughterOfKali* 
I have to agree with this. I think it's kinda funny that you (OP) say you're not a kid person...Yet you're a mom.









Lots of people become mothers before they are "kid people". It really isn't a prerequisite. Also lots of people love their own kids but don't enjoy other people's. It isn't at all out of the realm of common.


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## pjs (Mar 30, 2005)

I've often been the "victim" of this too. I don't fault the child, but, umm, I'd never let my kid do this so where the heck is the mom? IMO, there is no reason you should've had to call the mom over, the mom should've seen you're in the "baby space" and you're not there to to be her child's caregiver but rather to have some mom to mom time with others and not be isolated in your new parenthood.

Oh, and since I'm on kid #4, I have no problem being firm, the problem I've found is that these kids have rarely, if ever, heard the word no before and rather than repsecting the adult as the authority (when I was a kid any adult who told me to jump I'd have done it) they think they have just as much authority in the decision as to whether or not they need to stop







I know this might be an unpopular opinion, but I've encountered this all summer and am tired of people thinking just because I have three of my own with a fourth on the way that I'm eager to be a daycare provider to their kids as well


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Maybe the mom thought it wasn't bothering you or wasn't aware. I think it would have been fine to be quite direct with the little girl, 'The baby really needs to eat right now and needs some quiet, you'll have to stop jumping on the couch or showing us toys now." and then repeat, "Sweetie, I already told you the baby needs to eat right now, you'll have to stop jumping on the couch and showing us toys right now. Go bring that book to your mom and ask her to read it to you." Even if her mom doesn't hear you then one of the moms in the circle would hear you and get the little girls mom or tell the girl to come sit with them while you nursed the baby.


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *suebee79* 
Lots of people become mothers before they are "kid people". It really isn't a prerequisite. Also lots of people love their own kids but don't enjoy other people's. It isn't at all out of the realm of common.

So true. I adore my kids, and my nephews. But most children younger than 13 or 14 absolutely exhaust and confuse me.


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## mrs joe bubby (Mar 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alyantavid* 

I don't know, I guess I expect adults to acknowledge my kids when they speak to them. I would have sent my kids off to play after a short conversation, but maybe the mom was busy with another child or something?


I read the original post a second time and it seems like the OP repeatedly acknowledged the little girl. Was that directed to something else? If not, genuinely asking how she could have better acknowledged, as I am kinda in the same place as the OP kiddo-relating wise, and I'm trying to learn!


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## DaughterOfKali (Jul 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *suebee79* 
It isn't at all out of the realm of common.

Didn't say it was. Just said it was funny.


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *suebee79* 
Lots of people become mothers before they are "kid people". It really isn't a prerequisite. Also lots of people love their own kids but don't enjoy other people's. It isn't at all out of the realm of common.

I'm not a huge kid person. I love my own dearly, but find some others a bit much. However, I wouldn't have ignored a child wanting a story.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pjs* 
Oh, and since I'm on kid #4, I have no problem being firm, the problem I've found is that these kids have rarely, if ever, heard the word no before and rather than repsecting the adult as the authority (when I was a kid any adult who told me to jump I'd have done it) they think they have just as much authority in the decision as to whether or not they need to stop









I will not teach my children to jump because an adult says so. I won't teach them to jump because anyone says so. I will teach my kids to think for themselves and of course, be respectful of those around them. But I see no reason to make my kids believe every adult is always right and should always be listened to simply because they're bigger.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mrs joe bubby* 
I read the original post a second time and it seems like the OP repeatedly acknowledged the little girl. Was that directed to something else? If not, genuinely asking how she could have better acknowledged, as I am kinda in the same place as the OP kiddo-relating wise, and I'm trying to learn!

She did acknowledge her. And then said she started ignoring her. I'm not saying she was completely rude to the girl or that the mom shouldn't have come in and helped. Had I been in that position, I probably would have gotten up and helped her find something else to do. Maybe she was one of those kids who is very shy around other children and felt more comfortable with an adult? Obviously it wasn't the op's job to keep her entertained the entire time, but there very well could have been a reason the girl kept talking to her instead of the other children.


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## HarperRose (Feb 22, 2007)

I don't do well w/ other ppl's kids, either. It tries my patience, eventually. I think you did fine, interacting a bit and eventually putting up your boundaries. Her mom should have stepped in. I do not let my kids monopolize other ppl's time and I don't appreciate when it happens to me, either.

ETA: My kids and I all have special needs, though, so I'm extra cautious of what we do and what we expose ourselves to.


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## earthmama369 (Jul 29, 2005)

I have been in this position and I also have a highly social 4-year-old who sometimes gloms onto people the way you described. Her mother may have been clueless, but I suspect it's more that she was either having an off day or she misread the signals you were sending out.

I find with this age that being very concrete and repetitive helps. "Sweetie, the baby needs quiet to nurse. Please go show your mama the story you found."

I've also started to back off and wait longer before interfering when my dd tries to make friends with another adult. More often than not, when I've jumped in early and tried to redirect her, the other adult has told me they're enjoying themselves and there's no need for me to interfere. So I've learned to give it more time, and I'm sure at some point I've missed a signal from someone who really wasn't enjoying all the attention. Maybe I need a more concrete signal, too.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DaughterOfKali* 
I have to agree with this. I think it's kinda funny that you (OP) say you're not a kid person...Yet you're a mom.









Why is that funny? Lots of people who have children aren't 'kid people'.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alyantavid* 
I'm not a huge kid person. I love my own dearly, but find some others a bit much. However, I wouldn't have ignored a child wanting a story.

I will not teach my children to jump because an adult says so. I won't teach them to jump because anyone says so. I will teach my kids to think for themselves and of course, be respectful of those around them. But I see no reason to make my kids believe every adult is always right and should always be listened to simply because they're bigger.

She did acknowledge her. And then said she started ignoring her. I'm not saying she was completely rude to the girl or that the mom shouldn't have come in and helped. Had I been in that position, I probably would have gotten up and helped her find something else to do. Maybe she was one of those kids who is very shy around other children and felt more comfortable with an adult? Obviously it wasn't the op's job to keep her entertained the entire time, but there very well could have been a reason the girl kept talking to her instead of the other children.

But it doesn't seem like it should be the OP's responsibility to entertain her. I mean, it's a nice thing to do and all, but it almost sounds like you are saying she treated the girl poorly. The OP had her own baby to care for. I wonder where the girl's parent or caretaker was. Interesting how everyone is assuming the girl was there with her mother.

OP, I understand your dilemma. I had similar problems being firm when DS 1 was a baby. IME you have to be pretty direct and blunt with young kids for them to really listen. And of course you can do that and still be really nice. But you must be FIRM with them.


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## LauraN (May 18, 2004)

Using a firmer tone would have had the double effect of showing that you meant business, and perhaps getting her mom's attention. I don't mean a harsh tone, just a firm, "Sweetie, the baby needs to eat right now, so I can't read to you. Go ask your mom to do it."

Also, keep in mind that the subleties in "I can't read right now" are lost on a 4 yr-old. They don't understand that that means, "please stop talking to me and go to someone else." You have to be very concrete in what you ask them to do: "Go ask your mom," or "I'm busy with the baby, go talk to your mom." etc.

I strongly disagree with PPs who say that this 4 yr-old's behavior shows some kind of lack in the girls upbringing. Some 4 yr-olds are too shy to be this way with strangers, others aren't. But most 4 yr-olds behave that way with people they're comfortable talking to! In general they're not yet mature enough to understand that something else is more important than their immediate needs/wants. At 7ish they can start getting it, but at 4? Too young.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DaughterOfKali* 
I have to agree with this. I think it's kinda funny that you (OP) say you're not a kid person...Yet you're a mom.









LOL... At playgroup no less.

I thought that sentence was funny too.

And, I AM a kid person. But, that still would have annoyed me. There isn't much you can do.. but, at least you know others would have been annoyed too.


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## purplepaperclip (May 19, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nextcommercial* 
LOL... At playgroup no less.

I thought that sentence was funny too.

And, I AM a kid person. But, that still would have annoyed me. There isn't much you can do.. but, at least you know others would have been annoyed too.

How many people go to playgroup to meet other adults? I would bet a lot. Especially when they have infants. I really don't get the funny about this. Maybe my funny bone is out of order or something...


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *suebee79* 
I really don't get the funny about this. Maybe my funny bone is out of order or something...

Maybe. But, I think when she said it, she meant it to be a little bit amusing. Not everything is meant to be taken completely serious. And, sometimes things that are serious are still a little funny.


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## lonegirl (Oct 31, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pjs* 
I have no problem being firm, the problem I've found is that these kids have rarely, if ever, heard the word no before and rather than repsecting the adult as the authority (when I was a kid any adult who told me to jump I'd have done it) they think they have just as much authority in the decision as to whether or not they need to stop







I know this might be an unpopular opinion, but I've encountered this all summer and am tired of people thinking just because I have three of my own with a fourth on the way that I'm eager to be a daycare provider to their kids as well


















I too was brought up to respect adults. I am trying to do the same with Tyr. No, not every adult is right everytime....this is part of being human....but I don't believe every child is right either. When he starts school I will expect him to listen in class and be respectful.

As far as this little girl goes...sure she was just being a 4 y/o but as an adult with a little baby I think it is well within the OP rights to tell the little girl it was nice to see her but she can't play/read right now (firmly so she gets it). Direct her to the other kids and tell her that the baby needs some mommy time. I remember my neices always wanting to be on the bed while I nursed Tyr and I out and out told them that they would have to wait in the other room. The mom should have been the one to come collect the littlegirl. I know I always feel bad if Tyr seems to be 'pestering' people....I will redirect him myself...unless the adult says otherwise.


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
But it doesn't seem like it should be the OP's responsibility to entertain her. I mean, it's a nice thing to do and all, but it almost sounds like you are saying she treated the girl poorly. The OP had her own baby to care for. I wonder where the girl's parent or caretaker was. Interesting how everyone is assuming the girl was there with her mother.

I said it wasn't her responsibility to entertain her. Getting annoyed (which is the vibe I got from the op) at a child for being a child just seems wrong to me.


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## MamieCole (Jun 1, 2007)

I would have been annoyed too. But then again, I'm one of those people with kids of my own who really doesn't enjoy other people's children...at least, not at close range. I would have definately asked the child, politely but firmly, to stop and go elsewhere.

I sort of laugh when parents feel their child should be allowed to express themselves any way they want and ignore what adults might say as a request to stop or change the behavior. Why the double standard? If an adult were getting into someone's personal space and interrupting a nursing session, everyone would be saying things like "How rude." But since it is a child who doesn't "know any better" we should just let it go simply because there was no parent or caregiver stepping in to stop it?


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LauraN* 
Using a firmer tone would have had the double effect of showing that you meant business, and perhaps getting her mom's attention. I don't mean a harsh tone, just a firm, "Sweetie, the baby needs to eat right now, so I can't read to you. Go ask your mom to do it."

I would have handled it this way, too.

IMO, though, 4 yrs old is plenty old enough to know not to throw books into a strangers lap and risk hurting a baby. Also, blocking your view of others an climbing all over you, someone unknown to her? Not typical, imo. And I've had a lot of experience with 4 yr olds, so I don't think I'm off here. It sounds like the girl either hasn't learned appropriate behavior (and given her attention-seeking behavior, maybe her mom ignores her a lot of the time







), or she was having a bad day. But I don't think it's typical behavior for most 4 yr olds.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I don't think it's typical behavior for 4-year-olds either, and I think it's very reasonable to say, "I can't read it to you right now. Why don't you have your mom read it to you?" and hand it back.


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamieCole* 
I sort of laugh when parents feel their child should be allowed to express themselves any way they want and ignore what adults might say as a request to stop or change the behavior. Why the double standard? If an adult were getting into someone's personal space and interrupting a nursing session, everyone would be saying things like "How rude." But since it is a child who doesn't "know any better" we should just let it go simply because there was no parent or caregiver stepping in to stop it?

I don't know if you're talking about my posts or not, but assuming you are...I don't think that children should behave in any way they want and adults should deal with it. And I don't my previous posts suggested that. I do think children have every right to be heard and treated respectly, as do adults. If I brought something to show another adult that I felt I'd connected with in some way and that person said something like "that's nice" and started ignoring me, I'd be hurt. I'd guess a 4 year old who maybe didn't get that she was invading someone's space, probably didn't understand why the op left.

Call it a double standard all you like, but it goes both ways.

For the record, I do think this child's mother/caregiver/whatever should have stepped in and redirected her. Since that did not happen, perhaps engaging her a little more would have led to a happier (for both parties) result. Just my opinion and obviously, not a popular one.


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## PoetryMom (Mar 29, 2009)

I think the part that would have sent me off the deep end was the part when she was throwing the books on top of the baby!! I would have lost it if my own DD1 did that to DD2, let alone if it was someone else's kid. And, yeah, were was Mom or Dad? I have seen other kids behave this way, but usually the parent is there so fast that I often have to tell them "No it's OK, she's not bothering me." I would do the same with my own children, mostly because I wouldn't want them hurt by an unkind comment from someone who is not necessarily enjoying their company. What's wrong with that? What's OK with one person may not necessarily be OK with another. We all have different tolerance levels when it comes to children (and even adults).


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alyantavid* 
I said it wasn't her responsibility to entertain her. Getting annoyed (which is the vibe I got from the op) at a child for being a child just seems wrong to me.

So a person is never supposed to be irritated/annoyed by children?

How many of you have truly NEVER been annoyed by a child?


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## HarperRose (Feb 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
So a person is never supposed to be irritated/annoyed by children?

How many of you have truly NEVER been annoyed by a child?

Yeah, that struck me as weird, too.

My kids annoy me every day. My son likes to make weird noises with his mouth. It's annoying. My daughter has this whine quality to her voice when she's in the mood. It annoys me. My baby is 21 mos and does this up-down-up-down business when nursing sometimes. That's annoying, too.

It doens't mena I love them any less. It just means certain things get on my nerves. I know I annoy them, too.


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## teale (Feb 20, 2009)

I don't know, I read the OP, and I don't feel like the child was genuinely acknowledged. I know when I am at playgroups, our conversations are often stopped and interrupted to acknowledge the attention that any child needs of us. It doesn't take much to acknowledge them, and send them back to what they were doing, or even redirect them.

Honestly, I would wonder where the mom was too, because I know when I my child decides that someone is his new BFF, that I gently ask him to stop what he is doing, or to ask. Most times the mom will indicate she has no issue with him, or she will agree with me at which point, I step in and redirect him.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *teale* 
I don't know, I read the OP, and I don't feel like the child was genuinely acknowledged. I know when I am at playgroups, our conversations are often stopped and interrupted to acknowledge the attention that any child needs of us. It doesn't take much to acknowledge them, and send them back to what they were doing, or even redirect them.

Honestly, I would wonder where the mom was too, because I know when I my child decides that someone is his new BFF, that I gently ask him to stop what he is doing, or to ask. Most times the mom will indicate she has no issue with him, or she will agree with me at which point, I step in and redirect him.

So what should the OP have done differently??


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## signingmamma (Aug 28, 2009)

Allright where was the mom???

This sounds something that DD would have done, not really throwing books at people or toys, but sometimes she seems very interested in engaging conversations with other adults - when I'm around. And if I see that my daughter is annoying the person, I just get her out of there before she gets hurt.


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## Bug-a-Boo's Mama (Jan 15, 2008)

How odd. DS is 3y9m and would never act that way with another adult-or even DH and I. Her parent really should have stepped in and handled her DD.

I'm not a children person either. But since having K and being in a large Mother's group, I have opened up. I still don't get mushy seeing children I don't know, but do enjoy most of the children from the group.


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## Bug-a-Boo's Mama (Jan 15, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *suebee79* 
Lots of people become mothers before they are "kid people". It really isn't a prerequisite. Also lots of people love their own kids but don't enjoy other people's. It isn't at all out of the realm of common.

I agree with this 100%. And if when K was 5m old I had a 4yo in my face, I would have felt the same. As he got older I got much better at talking to other children. Not everyone has an instant kid comfort thing going on.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bug-a-Boo's Mama* 
I agree with this 100%. And if when K was 5m old I had a 4yo in my face, I would have felt the same. As he got older I got much better at talking to other children. Not everyone has an instant kid comfort thing going on.

I really want to reiterate this because I want the OP to understand that she did NOTHING WRONG!!
OP...It sounds like you were trying so hard and I am really sorry if come of the comments here have hurt your feelings. I think you were very nice to the girl while still taking care of your own needs.







:


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## Dandelionkid (Mar 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alyantavid* 
I said it wasn't her responsibility to entertain her. Getting annoyed (which is the vibe I got from the op) at a child for being a child just seems wrong to me.

It seems wrong to me to to ignore feelings of annoyance just cause someone is a kid







Other people's kids often annoy me- there just isn't the love factor often too make the age-appropriateness more tolerable. But I am not a kid-person either









Op you sounded like you did great but maybe need to be a little firmer next time or try out some redirection as someone else pointed out. I have a friend who is a master of the re-direction (hi free-range mama!) and she is so good at setting boundaries with my kids in a very gentle way.


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## poiyt (Jul 6, 2008)

This is DD. But dd will be 2 on september 10th - so much younger. But she feels connected to some adults - right off the onset. Strangers - it doesnt matter to her. Im not sure how she "picks" them..but its very obvious when she feels drawn to other adults.

I always ask the adult if they mind - if they dont, they I let them play - let dd have her connectedness with another human being for whatever reason exists. I tell the adult to let me know if she needs redirecting, and try to look for cues. Like other posters, Im sure I have missed some cues from people - but really..kids are kids.

I know there have been tons of times when adults have just kept talking and talking and talking about a subject, or giving advice or doing something else that I have asked them to stop doing because it annoys me. Adults miss the signals too.

I think there must be a reason, for my dd anyways, why she feels so connected to other adults - there must be some need, some desire..some..."thing"...but I try to honour that in a way thats both respectful to her and to the adult.


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## transylvania_mom (Oct 8, 2006)

deleted


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## Jennifer3141 (Mar 7, 2004)

Maybe her mom was overwhelmed? Huh?
So she doesn't have to watch her child interacting with a stranger? If the mother is that darned "overwhelmed," she probably shouldn't be out in public. That's not a safe situation.

I remember when my DD was 5 months old. I would not have taken it kindly had a kid thrown books at me or interrupted my nursing time with her. I think you did a fabulous job, OP.


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## amma_mama (May 20, 2008)

While I agree that the mother should have stepped in to redirect at some point, I do think that one has to expect to interact with other children at a playgroup. If you have no desire to interact with other kids, then maybe an infant-only "playgroup" would be more appropriate so that it is understood by all that the focus is on giving new mommies an opportunity to connect with others. But in the case of a mixed playgroup, I can't imagine going and not expecting from the get-go to interact with other children for at least part of the time, whether you are kid-person or not.







Sometimes I go to a playgroup and I am able to spend most of my time talking to adults, other times I end up with some of the kids for a good chunk of the time. At a non-child oriented event, I would have different expectations of the adults that are present, but I would be surprised to see any kid "brushed off" at a playgroup.

That said, when the little girl started to purposefully annoy the OP (standing in front of her or following her to the next room), which is what it sounds like, then I agree with the need to be clear and firm in a way that can redirect the child to another activity or get her mother involved.


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## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

That could have totally been my 4 yo dd. She just loves adults. She frequently attaches herself to one and wants them to play ponies, will serve them pretend tea and cake, gives them tours of my house, and all sorts of things. Once she halted a family bike ride to have a conversation with a mail man about her daddy







. She has these cute, big, expressive eyes so she generally gets away with it and people rarely tell her no (except her mean mama of course







). She just doesn't read those "stop" cues in people AT ALL.

In reality, you are at a playgroup and interacting with children is going to be a regular occurrence. I always hated that when I only had an infant. I never knew what to say and I was generally worried I was being 'judged' on my performance by the other moms. Like one bad child conversation would make them all think I was going to be a terrible mom or something. I too had very little kid experience.

I think ignoring people is rude (even kids) and I wouldn't do it. I don't think you should be held hostage by some one else's overly friendly 4 yo though (even mine). I wholeheartly disagree that this is somehow abnormal behaviour though, the posters who feel that way may not have much experience with 4 year olds (and it seems as though I have encountered way more 4yo girls with this trait).

Perhaps next time just redirect a child like that. A "shhh, the baby is sleeping. See how her eyes are closed? Shall we pull up her blanket? Okay why don't you find something to play with? That house looks so fun.".

Or maybe a, "Wow, that looks like a great book! I can't read it for you, but you can look at it and tell me if you like it.".

Generally I find acknowledging the child's feelings then finding another activity really helps. Also, if you can include them in a small way it makes a difference. Of course they will likely keep coming back, but at least they won't be there jumping on you the whole time







.

If necessary I would also use the, "where is your mom? Maybe she could read that book to you." But I tend to use that kind of tactic as a LAST resort. Often playgroups are the only sanity break moms get. I feel like if we all chip in and care a little bit for each other's children everyone benefits. To only take (relaxation, adult conversation, etc.) and never give (short conversation with other kids, breaking up altercations) seems a little one sided to me. Not all playgroups are the same of course, but it is nice to create a sort of family community. That only happens if we are willing to be a little annoyed by each others' children once in a while


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DaughterOfKali* 
I have to agree with this. I think it's kinda funny that you (OP) say you're not a kid person...Yet you're a mom.










Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
Why is that funny? Lots of people who have children aren't 'kid people'.









It's true, one can be a parent and not love certain people 'just because those people are really young'. There are people I like and people I don't like, regardless of their age. Being young doesn't make me like you just 'cause. If a person is annoying, they're annoying.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *suebee79* 
Lots of people become mothers before they are "kid people". It really isn't a prerequisite. Also lots of people love their own kids but don't enjoy other people's. It isn't at all out of the realm of common.

I agree.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alyantavid* 
I see no reason to make my kids believe every adult is always right and should always be listened to simply because they're bigger.

I absolutely agree with this, Alyantavid.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamieCole* 
If an adult were getting into someone's personal space and interrupting a nursing session, everyone would be saying things like "How rude." But since it is a child who doesn't "know any better" we should just let it go simply because there was no parent or caregiver stepping in to stop it?

I agree. I don't know any parent, from any of the playgroups we've attended, that would have ever condoned their child interrupting a nursing mom by throwing a book on their lap and onto the nursing babe.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
I don't think it's typical behavior for 4-year-olds either, and I think it's very reasonable to say, "I can't read it to you right now. Why don't you have your mom read it to you?" and hand it back.

Yeah, does not sound typical to be unaware of boundaries or unable to read body language and outright requests to be left alone. Asking for her to read a book, seeking interaction in and of itself is not strange at all and is certainly not unpleasant, but to not leave the mom alone after several requests, including that mom having to leave the room, does not seem age appropriate for a 4 year old.


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
So a person is never supposed to be irritated/annoyed by children?

How many of you have truly NEVER been annoyed by a child?

Absolutely its normal to be annoyed by a child. I get annoyed when mine scream standing a foot away from me. But really? The child in the op didn't sound annoying to me, she sounded like a kid.


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## Youngfrankenstein (Jun 3, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Purity♥Lake~* 
Yeah, does not sound typical to be unaware of boundaries or unable to read body language and outright requests to be left alone. Asking for her to read a book, seeking interaction in and of itself is not strange at all and is certainly not unpleasant, but to not leave the mom alone after several requests, including that mom having to leave the room, does not seem age appropriate for a 4 year old.

I'm suprised to see this written. What 4 year old reads body language and is aware of boundaries? I consider my 4-yr-old "mature" but she needs to be told when enough is enough. When my childless brother visits, he is game for a few hugs and kisses but then doesn't want her jumping all over him. I tell her, nicely, to stop. She doesn't get the he wouldn't want to be hugged and kissed from the moment he walks in the door until the time he leaves. I don't think that makes her atypical.


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## pjs (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alyantavid* 
I will not teach my children to jump because an adult says so. I won't teach them to jump because anyone says so. I will teach my kids to think for themselves and of course, be respectful of those around them. But I see no reason to make my kids believe every adult is always right and should always be listened to simply because they're bigger.

I don't intend on teaching this to my children either. However what I am teaching my kids is that if someone (adult/child/sibling) asks you to stop, you need to respect them and stop. So if the OP told the child that she would not read a story (and for me personally, I'm not there to read stories- if I wanted to read stories I'd host a storytime) the child should have stopped. If the OP told the child to stop touching her hair, she should've stopped immediately. I was just referencing my childhood as to how I would never have dared to keep doing something if an adult told me politely to stop.


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## pjs (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamieCole* 
I sort of laugh when parents feel their child should be allowed to express themselves any way they want and ignore what adults might say as a request to stop or change the behavior. Why the double standard? If an adult were getting into someone's personal space and interrupting a nursing session, everyone would be saying things like "How rude." But since it is a child who doesn't "know any better" we should just let it go simply because there was no parent or caregiver stepping in to stop it?

ITA. How will the child ever know better is he isn't taught?
I don't expect perfect behavior, but eventually a child needs to learn to respect personal space. Gosh, with a new baby I was teaching my 2.5 yo to respect the baby's space so he's not always in his face. And perhaps it's just my 3rd trimester hormones, but lately I've been encountering grown adults who seemed to not know better.


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

Dachshund mom, you didn't do anything wrong and in fact you handled it well. You engaged the child and you tried nicely to redirect her. When that clearly wasn't working her _parent_ should have stepped in.


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## dachshund mom (Dec 28, 2007)

Thanks for reassuring me and for the advice. Next time I just need to me more assertive. Yes, I did worry about what other moms would think if I said or did the wrong thing. I thought everyone was thinking I should have just read to her, but I never see any other moms playing with the kids besides their own. This is an awesome AP group and I was enjoying the conversation.

The girl was actually pretty sweet and only wanted some attention. All the others kids were boys and her mom was the host and was busy. I've seen the mom and daughter at other times and they're cool. The whole issue is I should have been able to handle it, but it was an awkward situation for me having no experience with this age. I was trying to come across as not being bothered, so the poor girl was probably confused.

LOL at baby only playgroups. Everyone seems to have a 3-4 year old also. I'm not going for DD's benefit, although me not going crazy from being alone with a baby all day works out for her too.


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## teale (Feb 20, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
So what should the OP have done differently??

You quoted me, so I'm assuming I didn't make my "what to do" clear









I think she should have actually acknowledged this child. To me, when she described it, I was picturing someone shooing away a pesky fly. She clearly had no interest in the child whatsoever.

Playdates are for Mom's too, but more importantly they are for the children. I know with the group here, I've never seen anyone treat another child like that.

Redirection is the key, I suppose. Engage, acknowledge, and then let her know how her behavior is effecting you or the baby.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Youngfrankenstein* 
I'm surprised to see this written. What 4 year old reads body language and is aware of boundaries? I consider my 4-yr-old "mature" but she needs to be told when enough is enough. When my childless brother visits, he is game for a few hugs and kisses but then doesn't want her jumping all over him. I tell her, nicely, to stop. She doesn't get the he wouldn't want to be hugged and kissed from the moment he walks in the door until the time he leaves. I don't think that makes her atypical.

Well, I don't know what is normal for other kids. I just know how my high needs four year old is. She has always displayed empathy. When she was 7 months old and her older half-brother pinched his fingers folding up a wooden tv tray, she crawled off my lap on the couch, across the floor to him and hugged and kissed him. It is just the way she is. My three year old is extremely exuberant and enthusiastic and for a time while she was two, we had a lot of problems with her physically invading everyone's space, in a violent manner, out of affection, yet still violent. We've had to make more effort with teaching her to see how her actions affect others. It didn't come naturally for her, although she is quite loving by nature. Now she is three years old, and there are still times she will body slam to give a hug, or smack my husband's crotch as a way of greeting him when he comes home from work, but I sure expect she will be more self aware by the time she is 4, with more effort on our part teaching her these things than we had to make with Abigail. I still cannot imagine how a 6 year old could be so clueless : meaning unaware of boundaries and body language.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Great post, Freerangemama!

I also have a daughter who is extremely outgoing and loves adults. I am rather introverted and find this excruciating to deal with. It's actually quite tricky for everyone, because I tend to say things like "Let's let the lady play with her baby now" or something, and the other mom will say, "Oh no, it's fine," and I never know whether she means it or is just being polite! And sometimes I have asked, "Is she bothering you?", but it's occurred to me that this is just dumb, because who is going to say "Yes"? And at the same time, I don't want to seem like I am paranoid or like I think the other person is somehow suspect or unsafe. And sometimes people obviously really enjoy DD. She often compliments women on their clothes or jewelry, and more than once someone has been obviously touched or had her day brightened and said so. I hate to discourage that kind of sweet outgoingness! Yet at the same time she can unintentionally cross boundaries (she is overly touchy-feely, for instance, no matter how many times I speak to her about it)

I certainly would redirect DD if she was bothering a nursing mom, but engaging other adults in conversation is a lot more gray area to me. I never know if DD is talking to someone who enjoys her or someone who doesn't like kids. I don't want her to think she can never talk to strangers or meet new people--it would squash her, as she is such a natural extrovert. So we work on negotiating it together, but I'm sure sometimes we screw up.


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## purplepaperclip (May 19, 2008)

I still find there to be a *vast difference* between a four year old "engaging" an adult through conversation and dropping books on an infant, climbing on a mother holding/nursing said infant and messing with her hair, especially after being redirected.


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## poiyt (Jul 6, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *suebee79* 
I still find there to be a *vast difference* between a four year old "engaging" an adult through conversation and dropping books on an infant, climbing on a mother holding/nursing said infant and messing with her hair, especially after being redirected.

I guess I pictured the scenario not with the child intentionally dropping books on the baby - but rather like my dd who when she is excited and wants to show people things (books, toys, cheese..lol) she just keeps bringing them and putting them down - without really looking around to see if its in a convenient place for the person she is showing it to.

If the 4 yr old was purposefully dropping books then thats a different thing I guess. Same with the climbing on - my dd is usually just trying to get comfy or play and doesnt posess the fine motor skills to do it in a way that, once more, is convenient for the adult.


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## Cujobunny (Aug 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vancouver Mommy* 
I have to say it gets so much easier talking to kids as your own get older. I have absolutely no problem addressing minor issues at the playground ("actually, it is his turn now, you'll need to wait", or "Please be gentle with smaller people") or making pleasant conversation with children I don't know well. A few years ago this would have stumped me completely. I think what has changed is that I now view them just as people, whereas before I found them very alien. Four year olds don't get subtlety either. I think I would have said "I have enough books now, please don't bring me any more. Maybe you could take some to you Mommy."

Yes I agree with this. Or some distraction: "Wow, look at what those kids are doing over there! Doesn't that look like fun???" Then


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## Cujobunny (Aug 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
Great post, Freerangemama!

I also have a daughter who is extremely outgoing and loves adults. I am rather introverted and find this excruciating to deal with. It's actually quite tricky for everyone, because I tend to say things like "Let's let the lady play with her baby now" or something, and the other mom will say, "Oh no, it's fine," and I never know whether she means it or is just being polite! And sometimes I have asked, "Is she bothering you?", but it's occurred to me that this is just dumb, because who is going to say "Yes"? And at the same time, I don't want to seem like I am paranoid or like I think the other person is somehow suspect or unsafe. And sometimes people obviously really enjoy DD. She often compliments women on their clothes or jewelry, and more than once someone has been obviously touched or had her day brightened and said so. I hate to discourage that kind of sweet outgoingness! Yet at the same time she can unintentionally cross boundaries (she is overly touchy-feely, for instance, no matter how many times I speak to her about it)

I certainly would redirect DD if she was bothering a nursing mom, but engaging other adults in conversation is a lot more gray area to me. I never know if DD is talking to someone who enjoys her or someone who doesn't like kids. I don't want her to think she can never talk to strangers or meet new people--it would squash her, as she is such a natural extrovert. So we work on negotiating it together, but I'm sure sometimes we screw up.

I have this type of child also. He loves to climb all over people, and often people don't mind, even though it's making me squirm to watch. If I tell my son to stop and the adult says "It's OK" or whatever, I will remind him to give people their space if they ask for it, and I definitely tell the adults to feel free to tell my child to stop if they don't want to do it anymore.

I know some people are uncomfortable telling children not to do something because they don't want to be seen as disciplining someone else's child, but I want my son to learn respect and that means stop doing something if it's making someone unhappy or uncomfortable, especially if they are asking him outright to stop. And also that it's ok to stand up for your body and your personal space.


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## bebebradford (Apr 4, 2008)

The Op did NOTHING wrong. I would have felt the same way! If another child comes up to me, I'm always kind and make them feel special.. but I'm NOT the other child's mother. I have to parent my children, and my children only. I would never let my child run around freely while I'm doing something else. I am responsible for my child, and don't expect other moms to pick up the slack. I also don't feel that I'm responsible for entertaining another child while I'm busy with my own. Granted, there have been situations where a mother wasn't paying attention and I've seen other children almost hurt themselves. I always step in on those situations. As for just entertaining a child at a playgroup, I wouldn't do it.


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## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bebebradford* 
The Op did NOTHING wrong. I would have felt the same way! If another child comes up to me, I'm always kind and make them feel special.. but I'm NOT the other child's mother. I have to parent my children, and my children only. I would never let my child run around freely while I'm doing something else. I am responsible for my child, and don't expect other moms to pick up the slack. I also don't feel that I'm responsible for entertaining another child while I'm busy with my own. Granted, there have been situations where a mother wasn't paying attention and I've seen other children almost hurt themselves. I always step in on those situations. As for just entertaining a child at a playgroup, I wouldn't do it.

Wow! This makes me so grateful for my wonderful playgroups! We don't "parent" each others' children, but we certainly have a certain sense of community! I would never mind engaging a 4 year old, nor would I expect every parent to be paying 100% attention to their 4 year old the entire time. It isn't picking up another mother's slack, it is being part of the village that it takes to raise a child.

It seems pretty age appropriate for a 4 year old to not be entirely aware of a baby in a mother's lap. Dropping a book on the infant or climbing all over a lap would hardly be malicious at this age, more like a lack of awareness. Maybe someone shouldn't expect to have to interact with a child in this way in a restaurant, at a book club, or a variety of other activities, but at a PLAYGROUP it just comes with the territory.

The problem here doesn't seem to be with the 4 year old (who was acting within the realms of age-appropriate behaviour). It is more of an issue with the OP who is not yet comfortable dealing with children of this age, other people's children, or the many issues that arise in this kind of situation. That is totally something that I can relate to! I felt the same way in these situation when I only had an infant. But it comes in time. As our children get older it is so much easier to deal with this stuff. Experience helps!


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## bebebradford (Apr 4, 2008)

You have a good point Mama. I guess I'm a little weird. I know what my children are doing at all times in public situations. Like I said, I'm always kind to all children, and would step in if needed to, but I'd be really embarrassed if my child wouldn't leave another mom alone. My kids are my responsibility to take care of. I feel for the OP, I think she tried her best.. but the mother should have stepped in. The OP was busy with HER baby at the time.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

I'm also going to add that my DD is an intense and emotional little beastie (who really, really thrives on interaction with others) and that sometimes insisting that she, for instance, not talk to another mom was going to result in tears. (This doesn't really happen now, because she is 5, but it would when she was younger.) Let's say I end up having to drag her away (not really, but you know what I mean) crying. The other mom might feel uncomfortable with THAT, too, and maybe wonder why I had to cause a scene when she really didn't mind interacting with DD...perhaps that mom then thinks I must really get a bad vibe from her or really have some weird issue about strangers if I am going to make that big a deal about it...see the dilemmas here?


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## bebebradford (Apr 4, 2008)

Oh I'm not saying don't let your babes interact with adults!







I'm just saying keep an eye out to see if the child keeps insisting on the adults attention while you see the adult has told her she's busy at the moment, etc. I let my child talk to other moms , but I don't let it go on for long periods of time if I see the mom is doing something else.. or telling the child she's busy,etc at the moment.


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bebebradford* 
The Op did NOTHING wrong. I would have felt the same way! If another child comes up to me, I'm always kind and make them feel special.. but I'm NOT the other child's mother. I have to parent my children, and my children only. I would never let my child run around freely while I'm doing something else. I am responsible for my child, and don't expect other moms to pick up the slack. I also don't feel that I'm responsible for entertaining another child while I'm busy with my own. Granted, there have been situations where a mother wasn't paying attention and I've seen other children almost hurt themselves. I always step in on those situations. As for just entertaining a child at a playgroup, I wouldn't do it.

Kinda throws that "it takes a village" argument out the window.

Yes, again, the mother should have stepped in. But I think it's ludicrous to go to a playgroup and not expect to have to interact with a child that isn't yours.


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## bebebradford (Apr 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alyantavid* 
Kinda throws that "it takes a village" argument out the window.

Yes, again, the mother should have stepped in. But I think it's ludicrous to go to a playgroup and not expect to have to interact with a child that isn't yours.

I'm not saying the OP shouldn't have interacted, but she was busy with her own babe who takes priority at the moment. She was nice to the child. You think that she should have been the child's entertainment when she was trying to take care of her own babe?


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## KirstenMary (Jun 1, 2004)

OP, you did nothing wrong, and you are entitled to have felt however you felt, okay? I would have said something like, "Sweetie, I would love to play with you, but I am busy right now. Where is your mommy?"

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alyantavid* 
I said it wasn't her responsibility to entertain her. Getting annoyed (which is the vibe I got from the op) at a child for being a child just seems wrong to me.

Really? I get annoyed with my kids all the time. And other people's kids? Heck, they annoy me even more.







And I am darn-tootin'-sure that MY kids sure as heck get on other people's nerves from time to time, too. Maybe even more than from time to time.









And there is nothing wrong with that.


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## KirstenMary (Jun 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bebebradford* 
I'm not saying the OP shouldn't have interacted, but she was busy with her own babe who takes priority at the moment. She was nice to the child. *You think that she should have been the child's entertainment when she was trying to take care of her own babe*?

Absolutely not.


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## Lula's Mom (Oct 29, 2003)

I think you did fine by saying hello to her and telling her to go play with the other kids. That's what playgroup is for, so the kids can play with each other! You were not obligated to read her a book- something that's not easy to do while also holding an infant in your lap.

In my playgroup, we certainly do take care of each other's kids. I like it when my friends' kids like and trust me! And so, if someone's 4 year old was climbing on me and dropping books _on my baby_, someone else would have said to her:

"Anastasia, you need to be careful of Miss Kristi's baby on her lap, there! Here, you can sit on my lap/ I'll read you the book/come with me and let's find your mommy."

Was _everyone_ else nursing a baby at that moment? If not, I think the other adults- who certainly can read body language and can tell whe you and your baby's space is being violated- kind of hung you out to dry there.


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## camracrazy (May 27, 2006)

I think you did fine. You were trying to do what you thought was right in the situation, but for whatever reason the 4 yo wasn't on the same wavelength as you. You were speaking Chinese and she was speaking Spanish.









Does this 4 yo have younger siblings? It could be that she's just not used to having a baby around, so she didn't think about being gentle around your baby. Although I would think if she regularly attended playgroups that included babies someone would probably have shown her how to be gentle with them by now. Maybe not. If you are planning on going back to the playgroup you could practice a few things to say to her or other children in case you find yourself in that situation again. It's so hard to come up with a "good" response when you are in the middle of a situation and already frazzled!

As for her following you when you went to another room to nurse, I would have taken her hand, led her back to the other room that the kids were in, and told her so stay there (finding her mother and taking her to her mother if I felt she wasn't going to stay). Then I would have went back to the room I was going to nurse in and shut the door (and even locked it, if I could and nobody needed to get into the room). I used to hate it when my kids did the pop on, pop off nursing because they were distracted. It always left me with extremely sore nipples!

I actually think you did better than I would have. As soon as the kid started crawling on me and pulling my hair I would have been hollering for her mother to come get her off of me. I totally hate grabby hands from ANYBODY, kid or adult.


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## alleybcat (Aug 9, 2005)

I think that the OP was maybe expecting too much adult time at a playgroup. We do lots of playgroups around here with our kids (5y - newborns) and they are always alot of kid/kid interaction alot of kid/adult interaction and not a tremendous amount of adult/adult interaction.

If I want to have a peaceful conversation with an adult, I will call them up in the evening or plan something without the older kids around. I think that a baby only playgroup is the way to go if you want to have mama only conversation.

In our playgroups we tend to look out for the whole group as well as care for our own child. Someone is almost always willing to read a book or pitch a ball, etc.


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## darcytrue (Jan 23, 2009)

I've always found that just smiling but ignoring really young (and sometimes annoying) children will work just fine.







I guess it just depends on the child though. But I've had similar situations come up in the past and ignoring the child does the trick.


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alleybcat* 
I think that the OP was maybe expecting too much adult time at a playgroup.

Really? That's not the case for us. We play with several families. We've never done formal "playgroups," just more a phone call to go to the park or come over, but there's definitely adult/adult interaction. In fact, sometimes that is the point. One mom will call and say "want to come over? I could use some adult conversation." Of course we interact with the kids and help them out, but it's really about them playing together and the adults getting some time to talk.

I would've said something firm when she started climbing on me and pulling my hair, whether I had a baby in my lap or not. I don't think it's okay to climb all over other people, especially when you don't know them. It's not unreasonable to say that your boundaries are being violated and that you don't want her to climb on you. Your personal space is *yours*, and children aren't immune from knowing that.


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## tbone_kneegrabber (Oct 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alleybcat* 
I think that the OP was maybe expecting too much adult time at a playgroup. We do lots of playgroups around here with our kids (5y - newborns) and they are always alot of kid/kid interaction alot of kid/adult interaction and not a tremendous amount of adult/adult interaction.

In our playgroups we tend to look out for the whole group as well as care for our own child. Someone is almost always willing to read a book or pitch a ball, etc.









:

Also the kid in question was the child of the host. In the playgroup circles I run in, it's assumed that the host's child will be watched over by others because the host is making coffee, answering the door, finding rags to clean up spills, making more coffee, finding snacks etc etc. (I mean in a reasonable way not like a crazy Martha Stewart, bless her heart, kinda way).

The playgroups I go to are in people's homes and I feel like everyone is expected to play with everyone else's kids. Yeah we talk to each other of course, but I also read books to kids, show them how things work, complement their dancing, grab them a snack etc.


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## bebebradford (Apr 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tbone_kneegrabber* 







:

Also the kid in question was the child of the host. In the playgroup circles I run in, it's assumed that the host's child will be watched over by others because the host is making coffee, answering the door, finding rags to clean up spills, making more coffee, finding snacks etc etc. (I mean in a reasonable way not like a crazy Martha Stewart, bless her heart, kinda way).

The playgroups I go to are in people's homes and I feel like everyone is expected to play with everyone else's kids. Yeah we talk to each other of course, but I also read books to kids, show them how things work, complement their dancing, grab them a snack etc.


Yeah.. I agree too somewhat.. everyone should play together AND interact.. but the OP was holding a little babe.. then trying to nurse. The little girl was climbing on her.. Someone.. the mom esp.. should have helped out.
AND as much as I love all children.. mine come first. I know that sounds brash.. but that's just how it is.


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