# Stranger Danger



## Zoesmama (Mar 26, 2005)

How do you teach this? Any programs that may help me. I talk with her about it but she is always so outgoing with adults in public. It really scares me sometimes. She was asked twice this summer by complete strangers where she goes to school. That is just creepy to me. I believe people are generally "good" but still that is weird to me. I would never dream of asking a kid where they go to school in front of their parent no less.

I keep it vague now.


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## TheGirls (Jan 8, 2007)

Have you read "Protecting the Gift" by Gavin de Becker? I think he has a very sensible and research based approach to children and personal safety.


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## russsk (Aug 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TheGirls* 
Have you read "Protecting the Gift" by Gavin de Becker? I think he has a very sensible and research based approach to children and personal safety.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TheGirls* 
Have you read "Protecting the Gift" by Gavin de Becker? I think he has a very sensible and research based approach to children and personal safety.

This. A million times this. Her ability to speak up, even to strangers, is a major tool for self-protection, and "don't talk to strangers" is nearly impossible to obey(unless you live somewhere small and know all the bank clerks, shop assistants, bus drivers, etc.) and means if she's ever lost she will be unable/too afraid to find someone to help her and if a dangerous paedophile sees a vulnerable lost child alone they will be only too happy to approach and "help".


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## shanniesue2 (Jul 4, 2007)

I haven't read Protecting the Gift...

I'm a kindergarten teacher and what I've always taught my kids at school is that there are 3 kinds of strangers. Nice strangers, mean strangers, and tricky strangers. Most people are nice strangers and really just want to help. A few people are mean strangers and you can tell that they want to do something bad. And some people are tricky strangers... they act like they are nice and that they just want to help, but they are really just trying to trick you. (I really only cover this when we are going on field trips in order to teach my kids what to do if they get lost while they are on the trip). So if they get lost, I teach them to sit down right where they're at and wait for me to come get them. If a stranger comes up to them and offers to help, it's probably because they are nice and want to help. But they could also be tricky, so the child should ask the person to call the school. But I tell them not to go anywhere with the person. I have them practice saying things like, "No, I'm supposed to wait here for my teacher. Please call my school." I also usually pin the phone number to the school on the back of their shirt. That way, if someone calls the school b/c a child is lost, the school can call me on my cell phone and let me know that I need to go get my student.


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## Zoesmama (Mar 26, 2005)

Nope I haven't read it so I will check for it at the library. Thanks!

Yeah I have told her there are some safe people to talk to for help(police) but its not always possible to find those people or for a young child to identify them. But it would be great to have phrases prepared for personal info like people asking her school.


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## Sharon RN (Sep 6, 2006)

I read Protecting the Gift a while ago, but I remember that he recommends teaching young children to find women if they need help. It seems that women are less likely to be a danger (but not guaranteed, obviously) and that women tend to stay until the child is taken care of, whereas a man may be more indifferent (like, just direct the kid to an information desk or something).

The problem with finding a police officer is that, depending on the age of the child, they may have a hard time recognizing the "uniform", and lots of security guards look like police officers, and apparently de Becker had something against security guards (which, I find funny, as my mother was a security guard for years.







).


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## Vancouver Mommy (Aug 15, 2007)

I've told my kids about how strangers can try to trick them as well (candy, lost puppy, etc.) and I want them to trust their instincts. They also know that they don't have to be polite when their instincts tell them something is wrong and that it's OK to bite, kick, scream if somebody tries to take them. If lost I've told them to stay put and ask a parent who has their children with them (anybody can claim to be a parent) for help.


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## TheGirls (Jan 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Zoesmama* 
Nope I haven't read it so I will check for it at the library. Thanks!

Yeah I have told her there are some safe people to talk to for help(police) but its not always possible to find those people or for a young child to identify them. But it would be great to have phrases prepared for personal info like people asking her school.

Yeah, deBecker recommends against teaching kids to find a police officer because they can be hard for a child to identify. Kids live in a world of legs, and police uniform pants look pretty much like everyone else's pants. Plus the security guard thing - apparently security guards have a higher statistical likelyhood of being someone who would hurt kids than someone chosen at random from the general population. (though, of course, the vast majoity of security guards are fine and helpful people

He also recommends strongly against waiting for someone to offer help (because the person who offers help is more likely to have inappropriate motives than there person you ask for help). He suggests you teach the child to choose who they ask. Women with children are a good bet, as are people in general who "fit" the situation (ie your instincts say they belong here, your instincts don't say "hmmm, that's odd")

He's a huge advocate of cultivating those instincts in our children.


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## snowgirl (Aug 2, 2007)

I did this workshop with my daughter recently and it was very good. http://www.kidpower.org/. One of the main things I took away is that a stranger is not going to ask a child to help look for their dog/cat/etc. It is so hard to define stranger. Anyhow, hth.


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## nannymom (Jan 23, 2004)

I love protecting the gift. I think one of the best things he touches on is teaching your child to listen to their instincts about people and not to deny those feelings or push them aside in the intrest of being polite.

I saw this in action with my 5 year old dd when we were at a coffee shop and she was roaming around with other kids and a man who gave me the serious creeps aproached her-she walked backwards into me and hid her face. As he walked by he said something like "Got a shy one there huh?" I just kind of nodded. When he was gone we discussed the feelings she had and I told her she had done the right thing.

Anyway, it's a great book a must read for parents imo.


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## JamieCatheryn (Dec 31, 2005)

I teach DS not to go anywhere with anyone or accept anything from anyone without his dad's or my permission, if he needs help/is lost look for a mommy to ask, and that if someone makes him uncomfortable he doesn't have to talk to them, and that he never has to keep secrets from daddy and I.

Most violence and such against children is by someone they know, a random stranger the child selects to talk to is unlikely to be a predator. A predator who approached him would know to act like a friend and quickly get past seeming like a stranger.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shanniesue2* 
"No, I'm supposed to wait here for my teacher. Please call my school." I also usually pin the phone number to the school on the back of their shirt. That way, if someone calls the school b/c a child is lost, the school can call me on my cell phone and let me know that I need to go get my student.

That is fantastic. I'd be so relieved as an adult finding a strange child to have an option like that.


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## Zoesmama (Mar 26, 2005)

She got lost in Target once at 3. She was walking in circles around the purses display near the front while I was in line watching. I looked forward to move my cart and waited she didn't come back. I didn't leave the front so I knew she didn't go out but found the security guard in front who put out the word for the department heads to search for her. She had told 2 ladies shopping she was looking for her mommy and they stayed with her and the women's team leader had went to check and found her with the ladies. It was only minutes but scary.

The ladies and the employee said she was very calm just saying I'm looking for my mommy. So having her actively seek help over having someone walk up is good I think. I can't find the book at my library but I'll see if I can find a used copy to buy online as soon as I can.

I'll talk to her about not sharing personal info like our address(she doesn't know street address but she knows the community name and our lot #) and her school with strangers.

And another mommy with young children with her should be a safe option if she uses similar things to the Please call my school. I like to have a cell phone even if its just got minutes for emergencies or "in case situations" but I don't currently have one.


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## Zoesmama (Mar 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nannymom* 
I love protecting the gift. I think one of the best things he touches on is teaching your child to listen to their instincts about people and not to deny those feelings or push them aside in the intrest of being polite.

I saw this in action with my 5 year old dd when we were at a coffee shop and she was roaming around with other kids and a man who gave me the serious creeps aproached her-she walked backwards into me and hid her face. As he walked by he said something like "Got a shy one there huh?" I just kind of nodded. When he was gone we discussed the feelings she had and I told her she had done the right thing.

Anyway, it's a great book a must read for parents imo.

I have noticed that while she is very outgoing with strangers there has been a few she backed off from. I think she was having a similar situation. She did that a lot more often when she was a toddler though.

I am definitely more worried about people that come up talking to her like a friend. Such as this woman the hospital who then asked her school.


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## JessJoy (May 5, 2005)

My dd is entering K this year and I am going to make her a beaded bracelet with my cell number on it. That way, if she gets lost, she knows to ask a "nice lady" to call my number. Also, it's very helpful to have them know their own address and their parents' names.


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## chelle.ra (Jul 28, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JamieCatheryn* 
Most violence and such against children is by someone they know, a random stranger the child selects to talk to is unlikely to be a predator. A predator who approached him would know to act like a friend and quickly get past seeming like a stranger.

This is backed by evidence; http://www.missingkids.com/en_US/doc...2_overview.pdf.
The U.S. Department of Justice reports

* 797,500 children (younger than 18) were reported missing in a one-year period of time studied resulting in an average of 2,185 children being reported missing each day.
* 203,900 children were the victims of family abductions.
* 58,200 children were the victims of non-family abductions.
* 115 children were the victims of "stereotypical" kidnapping. (These crimes involve someone the child does not know or someone of slight acquaintance, who holds the child overnight, transports the child 50 miles or more, kills the child, demands ransom, or intends to keep the child permanently.)

[Andrea J. Sedlak, David Finkelhor, Heather Hammer, and Dana J. Schultz. U.S. Department of Justice. "National Estimates of Missing Children: An Overview" in National Incidence Studies of Missing, Abducted, Runaway, and Thrownaway Children. Washington, DC: Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention, Office of Justice Programs, U.S. Department of Justice, October 2002, page 5.]

We stopped seeing our doctor after she brought up "Stranger Danger" at dd's 4 year well child appointment. The doc that that was important to discuss, but not potential side-effects and concerns of vaccines - grr!

Having read some research on this subject, I have come to the conclusion that the threat is a social construct perpetuated by the likes of Nancy Grace and 24 hour news channels that want us to live in fear. Statistically, there are no more "stereotypical" kidnappings than there were "back in the good ol' days."

Having been raised by a mentally ill woman who was sexually abused as a child, I have to look at the facts to get past the extreme way my mom "taught" me about these things. I'll have to check out "protecting the gift."

O


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## Elizabeth2008 (Nov 26, 2008)

I second getting a copy of "Protecting the Gift". I am so glad I read that book. Children need to be able to talk to strangers - it's one of the ways they can help themselves if they get lost. Telling them to "sit and wait for you" is not a good idea, as they could be lost for a long time and a child sitting alone is a target for a pedophile. Telling them to talk to a police officer is also a bad idea. Kids have no idea who real police officers are. A security guard may look like a police officer and anyone can become a security guard with very little training or background checks (no offense to security guards, but they are no safer than the general population, and they often carry guns). Becker suggests that you teach them to find someone "who looks like a mommy" and say "I can't find my mom/dad, can you help me." He also discusses how - based on a ton of research - children are more likely to become victims of child abusers when they are not comfortable speaking up for themselves. Child molesters were interviewed and they actually describe how they pick out their victims. His whole thing is that children need to be armed with information - know the correct names of their body parts, know that it's not OK for anyone to touch them on their penis/vagina, know that it's NOT ok to touch others there, be comfortable saying no to adults (so never tell them that they must "always obey adults) when they are asked to do something they aren't comfortable with. And most importantly, make sure they know you always want them to tell you things, even if they're worried you might get mad. That you will never get mad, as long as they tell you the truth.


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## moxygirl (Jun 23, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Elizabeth2008* 
...be comfortable saying no to adults (so never tell them that they must "always obey adults) when they are asked to do something they aren't comfortable with.

This. My grandmother was raised in the "you don't say no to adults, EVER" era and has always told any child in her care "you don't say no to me". When I was old enough to realize the danger of this, I told her that she was taking away their most important means of protecting themselves. I intend to let my kids say no to me as often as they want. They may still need to do what I ask if it's in the best interest of their health or safety but I want them to realize that they not only have the ability to say no, but also truly have a say in their own lives, which I think is one of the most important ways of avoiding becoming a victim later on, in any situation. I've never read Protecting the Gift but I plan to as soon as my 8 mo old starts talking.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

i have my own philosophy about this formed along with what i got from protecting the gift and from the peace pilgrim. the peace pilgrim once took a ride from this guy and was so tired she fell off to sleep immediately. he had picked her up with intention to rape but was sooo moved by her complete trust of him that he took her to her destination. to me that was the most powerful thing i had ever heard.

i have never ever done stranger danger with my child. ever. i think she was introduced to it when she was 5 at K.

however i also find where do you go to school an icebreaker. people ask my dd all the time and i dont have a problem with it ever. now a ps yes that would be a problem. but not for a k age child.

i did not tell her there were bad people either. i just told her there are certain things that are not done.

for instance she is not supposed to go anywhere or take anything from anyone without a parents permission. no matter who it is. never ever.

as she started growing older at around 4 i brought up no one is allowed to touch your body including bottom or vagina without her permission. neither her daddy or me.

if she ever feels unsafe and someone approaches her she was supposed to yell fire.

i also watched dd and saw how she had a 'feel' for people. i watched how intuitively she knew who to stay away from. i trusted that instinct and encouraged it - always. i never, ever forced her to answer any question she was unwilling to answer or say hi to someone she didnt want to (the shy stage is different).

she is an extremely social child and i completely trust her judgement. even as a baby she would stay away from certain people. others she would reach out with outstretched arms. to me that was key. her personal intuition. i had that too as a child and i was never wrong. ever. my mom said they would not know immediately but ultimately they would find out there was something wrong with that person.

and because i trust this instinct i allow dd to be a little more personal with certain people. she has a sense of reaching out to people in need. i have gotten comments since dd was a babe in arms how much her smile or conversation made their day.

she has gotten lost on a few occasions. well a few times she was off playing by herself with me freaking out to find her. on a couple of occasions she was lost at a fair. she was calm and collected. even at 3. the mom who my dd went to said she wasnt frightened or anything (again my dd figured this out by herself before i had the talk about who was ok to approach). by the time dd was 4 she had learnt my cell phone number and would call me on it when she got lost.

i think this has had a fantastic effect on my dd. she has learnt to respect people and not be scared of them. never doing the stranger danger has taught her to watch out for odd behaviour from anyone. she does not hesitate to speak her mind. mainly what pleases me is that she has a "healthy" attitude towards people. neither freaked out nor totally gushy mushy. she stands up to bullies and makes them into friends. i really admire that quality about her. THAT has come from being taught - dont judge a person by his action. every single person is a good person. if you treat them kindly and sincerely that's what you will get out of them. every person deserves to be treated kindly. no matter who they are. because i believe if you do you would be the one that got away. that for some reason the serial killer picked you up but let you go.

now that she is old enough to be on the computer and play games on it and search google and youtube, i have started doing the computer safety issue with her. no personal info - nothing should be given out.

even at 3 i was focusing on how to empower my child not just for childhood but adulthood too. she has a v. strong foundation and now we only add common sense stuff as she grows older.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sharon, RN* 
I read Protecting the Gift a while ago, but I remember that he recommends teaching young children to find women if they need help. It seems that women are less likely to be a danger (but not guaranteed, obviously) and that women tend to stay until the child is taken care of, whereas a man may be more indifferent (like, just direct the kid to an information desk or something).

Is it possible that some men feel nervous about helping due to fears that they'll be accused of something? Over at the Free Range Kids site, I read a story by a man who saw a little girl crying, all alone, but hesitated to help her out of fear that he might be accused of something and his own kids might end up with their dad in jail.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
Is it possible that some men feel nervous about helping due to fears that they'll be accused of something? Over at the Free Range Kids site, I read a story by a man who saw a little girl crying, all alone, but hesitated to help her out of fear that he might be accused of something and his own kids might end up with their dad in jail.

It's possible but i think it might be irrelevant. Statistically women with children are going to be a safer bet. My dad was in a similar situation, he approached a woman with young kids himself and asked HER to help, and she did.

Meemee i have never read the Peace Pilgrim - how did she find out she was going to be raped but for her total trust? Did the guy tell her "hey i'm actually a rapist"? My experience with rape made me think that actually my rapist relied on trust to get his victims and got off on taking advantage of helplessness, so i can't imagine this guy's angle that he would only choose and rape those who already suspected he would...? I have done a lot of hitch-hiking, you generally know as soon as you open the car door if the driver is a weirdo or not, but i guess sometimes you're in the desert and a ride is a ride.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoBecGo* 
It's possible but i think it might be irrelevant.

It seems like a relevant concern to me that any individual, male or female, would hold back from giving practical help to a crying child out of fear of being accused of something.

I also felt like it was relevant because the poster I'd quoted had said that the book said women were more likely to stay with the child whereas men tended to take a more detached approach.

I do think it's probably better to approach a parent with children for help if the child has a choice. Plus I think that's what most children would instinctively do anyway.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

Quote:

Plus I think that's what most children would instinctively do anyway.
Maybe that is relevant too? That instinctively children would do the wisest thing, and that for whatever reason the wisest thing to do is to find a woman.

I don't think your point is irrelevant for all of society, only for when educating kids in who to go to for help!







I also think it's sad that men are punished for not being nurturing when they are parents but forbidden from being so in pretty much every other context.


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## 2cutiekitties (Dec 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snowgirl* 
I did this workshop with my daughter recently and it was very good. http://www.kidpower.org/. *One of the main things I took away is that a stranger is not going to ask a child to help look for their dog/cat/etc.* It is so hard to define stranger. Anyhow, hth.

That is very helpful, great way to define predator, imo!


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## sarahsmiles (Jan 9, 2007)

DD is VERY outgoing and social, and I do not want to discourage that. I've also read PTG and agree with 99 percent of it. I would have no problem with someone asking where she goes to preschool -- some of our neighbors see us walking there in the morning and it's small talk; she has a shirt from the school; it's just something to say to her. If someone decided to stalk her outside school, that would be another issue completely unrelated to knowing where she goes, right?

I am a bit torn about other personal information. I've been teaching her our address (we just moved and she helped put up new house numbers.) I want her to know her full name for a variety of reasons. So this morning, a lady is walking her dog. We'd seen her before with another dog who was not friendly, but she made a point of saying this dog was and we could pet the dog. Small talk ensues. She asks if we go for a walk every morning and I say we're on our way to school. Before I know it, DD is telling her her full name, my full name, our street address, DS name, etc. No biggie in this case -- she's just a friendly neighbor and we'll likely see her most days -- but this is the kind of thing that FREAKS DH out. He's really uncomfortable with her "sharing."

So I don't know how to teach her the information she needs to know for her own safety, and let her know she might need to tell someone her name and address and phone if she got lost, without her constantly telling random people ...


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoBecGo* 
Meemee i have never read the Peace Pilgrim - how did she find out she was going to be raped but for her total trust?

i cant remember GBG. its been quite a few years. i think when he was dropping her off he told her. rather confessed it. however i dont think he used the word rape. probably something along the lines of wrong intention. or intention to harm her. i mean she had nothing on her so what could he take.

it was that incident that makes me wonder what makes some criminals and murderers let someone go. some are startled by others. but some do change their mind. with that one victim.


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## Callimom (Sep 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Zoesmama* 
How do you teach this? Any programs that may help me. I talk with her about it but she is always so outgoing with adults in public. It really scares me sometimes. She was asked twice this summer by complete strangers where she goes to school. That is just creepy to me. I believe people are generally "good" but still that is weird to me. I would never dream of asking a kid where they go to school in front of their parent no less.

I keep it vague now.

I agree with Protecting the Gift. It's the best book on this topic.

We have a few more family rules (for when my kids are young - they are growing beyond that now).

They could talk to anyone who is there size or smaller.
They are welcome to talk to any adult as long as they are holding my hand. And so if they want to talk to someone, they should come and get me so that we can meet them together.

I also still tell my kids to look for a woman with kids (which I think I got from Protecting the Gift) and we practised what to say in asking for help.

We have a standard meeting spot in stores if they get lost - beside the cash register. I figure it is easiest for the store employees to spot a child by the cash if we need to use the PA system. They know I will never leave the store without them and so that is a family rule - they don't leave and I don't leave.

Before we go somewhere with a high chance of separation or getting lost (ie crowded music festivals) we go over all of this stuff.

For my wanderer, I had certain clothes that he always wore out to places he was more likely to get lost and I had written our contact info into those clothes. They were also easy to spot - tie dye shirts. Even now he has our list of emergency phone numbers written on the inside of his bike helmet and quarters in his bike bag and backpack.


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