# Can't I have any food rules?



## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

I am struggling with boudaries lately. I can't quite figure out if I have too many or not enough.
One huge issue is food. In my attempt to be really lenient about when to eat how much to eat..not spoon feeding but allowing my kids to eat when they're hungry is in all honesty not quite working out.
My kids both want their breakfast left out for way too long. They pick here and there; eat a little play a little.
When I am finally ready to clean up they decide that it is now time to eat...this could be 2 hours later. You see nothing is getting done around all the eating. I can't put the food away (Dry cereal...milk cereal does get tossed ) they want the toast left out forever...and they eventually come back and eat it but that is usually the time that we need to be walking out the door.
"Let's go" I say.
"I'm hungry ..is my breakfast still out my DD?" will say.
"uggh" I say because I just want to leave.
I really want to get the day moving..but everything is held up b/c they snack (healthy nice snacks)
I am not concerned about what they are eating jsut that I want to say.....
Breakfast is over...and not feel like I am creating a kid who will be worried throughout life that someone is going to toss their food therefore they must eat everything all at once.

I kind of want mealtimes...but don't feel right about them.
do you have ANY food rules and if so what are they?

BTW...the only places we are generally going are to the park to a friend's house and 2 y classes for each kid. Not that any of these are pressing meetings to attend but I do like to keep things going and get out of the house.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Do you allow food in the car? I always just have them bring it or something else with them. But, my car is pretty nasty.

Or if we're just sticking around the house but I want to clean up or clear the table, I'll stick the whole plate in the fridge. They won't usually eat it again, especially if it's something that's not very good once it's cold, but we have dogs and chickens, so I feel pretty mellow about waste.


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## smartair (Apr 8, 2007)

We eat at the table. Once you are done you are finished. We have one snack between meals. You eat what is offered. This may sound a little harsh but it works for us. I always make sure that there is only one new food that they may or may not like so MOST of their meal or snack is something I know that they like (they may choose not to eat it). There are exceptions to the rules: when we have friends over we may have our snack in the living room or outside. We sometimes have a picnic and eat outside. I have found that this gives some structure to our otherwise hectic world. It's the small parts of the day that we sit together and talk and share without distractions.
If you are thinking of introducing some rules, maybe explaine your struggles with your kids and have them brainstorm how you can fix the problem and make it seem like they come up with the rules... Just a thought. Good luck.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

We don't allow wandering around while eating meals. Snacks, sure, but meals are eaten at the table and cleaned up when finished/before playing. This is the way it's always been for DS, and he doesn't have a problem with it so far.


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## granolalight (Nov 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
We don't allow wandering around while eating meals. Snacks, sure, but meals are eaten at the table and cleaned up when finished/before playing. This is the way it's always been for DS, and he doesn't have a problem with it so far.

yep, same here.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

For all practical purposes we have no food rules. Off the top of my head the only rule we've had is yogurt stays in the kitchen.

Why can't they bring a container of dry cereal or a piece of toast in the car? I get the feeling they are sensing your controlling nature about food. I try to make it a non-issue. Here's food. Eat it if you're hungry don't if you're not. If she asks for something specific, I usually get it for her (if we have it etc)

-Angela


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *smartair* 
We eat at the table. Once you are done you are finished. We have one snack between meals. You eat what is offered. This may sound a little harsh but it works for us. I always make sure that there is only one new food that they may or may not like so MOST of their meal or snack is something I know that they like (they may choose not to eat it).

I think this is awful. I'm glad you offer something that they like, but I really disagree with limiting snacks like that. My sister has an incredibly fast metabolism and really NEEDS to eat very often. She always has.

We'd actually ALL be healthier if we ate more often in smaller amounts. Humans are really a snacking animal by nature.

-Angela


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

Quote:

I get the feeling they are sensing your controlling nature about food.
the only problem here is that I am NOT controlling their food. Not one bit...no; just one more or no dessert; no, "you can't get up from the table" (obvisoulsy) there isn't one thing I am controlling (except OJ which the ped got my DD hooked on so we limit it; DS wont even smell the stuff







)

I do bring snacks jsut about everytime we go anywhere but I guess I jsut want them to be done eating at some point during the day and not just taking a break.
Maybe I'm just in rut


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Is it possible that just eating all the time is the way these particular kids function? I ate snacks and meals. My sister ate all the time. It was all good, healthy food- but it was constant. (interestingly she nursed at night forever too...)

Know what? She's nearly 30 now and STILL eats all the time.

I'm a big believer in letting kids learn to listen to their own bodies.

-Angela


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## mothragirl (Sep 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hipumpkins* 

I do bring snacks jsut about everytime we go anywhere but I guess I jsut want them to be done eating at some point during the day and not just taking a break.
Maybe I'm just in rut

i snack all day long, dd does too. it is just how i eat. i can't sit and have a meal, i don't have the attention span or the stomach size.


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## straighthaircurly (Dec 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
We don't allow wandering around while eating meals. Snacks, sure, but meals are eaten at the table and cleaned up when finished/before playing. This is the way it's always been for DS, and he doesn't have a problem with it so far.

Basically the same here. If he really didn't have time to eat before we have to go, we will take dry cereal in the car or just transition into a healthy snack. But meals have a definite time limit to them before the food is put away. Depending on the meal, it is finished in 10-30 minutes.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

I think set mealtimes are a fine idea. I think that limiting the time for 'meals' is fine. You can clean up the meals and still leave 'snacks' available.

But, reading your post, this might be more about leaving than about eating. It sounds like they have a hard time transitioning into the day more than like meals are the 'real' issue. Is it only breakfast that has this issue?

This is what 'mealtimes' at our house look like on days when we're all at home:

Get up between 7 and 8 am (ds gets up at 7 am, dd often not till 8:30 or later).
Breakfast - about 30 minutes after getting up

Lunch offered about 11:30 or 12:00 depending on what we do that day (Sundays it's not until 1 PM for example).

Dinner is served between 5:45 and 6 pm.

Snacks - whenever they ask for them, unless it's within about 15 minutes of a meal. Often I will offer a snack at about 10 am and 3:30 pm when tempers start to fray. Some snacks (crackers, fruit, yogurt) are left where they can reach them and they can help themselves.

As long as it's food that doesn't go bad, it's left out on the table. Ds will never, ever go back, dd often will.

If we need to be somewhere, I will often give dd a 15 minute warning and say "We need to leave in 15 minutes. I'm going to set the timer, when it beeps, you need to be done eating and go get dressed and ready to go." On days when dd goes to daycare, she often eats breakfast in the car.


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

We struggle with the same thing. I try to so hard not be controlling about food, but ds1 really pushes me to my limits. Ds2 will sit down and eat, but ds1 bounces all over the place. This might sound ridiculous, but we had to institute a rule of staying seated while you are still chewing, because otherwise he would shove a bite into his mouth and then go do somersaults off the couch.

I have no problem with snacking all day long - our house is full of healthy food (for the most part) - and the kids seem to do just fine with it. But I do find mealtimes frustrating because ds1 is all over the place. We've started pointing out to him that we're leaving and not going to be eating again soon, so be sure to eat as much as you want before we go. Sometimes he screws around and doesn't eat, and is then complaining that he's hungry. We remind him that he didn't eat his breakfast, and that now he's going to have to wait. (Not because we're withholding food, but because it's just not available at that particular time.)


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## swampangel (Feb 10, 2007)

We don't really have any rules with food, but we do have mealtimes and I think they are important. Some children will say they are hungry and can identify that easily. My ds is so active and involved with other things that taking time to eat just slows him down from what he'd rather be doing. So, in our case, he really needs me to keep my finger on the pulse of his meals throughout the day. He will tell me that he'd like a snack at different times and I always give him what he asks for. But we do have breakfast, lunch and dinner. He eats the least at dinner but we also have a bedtime snack.

I think (depending on your children's age) that establishing good eating habits (whatever that means to you) is important. I can imagine my children making their own meal decisions when they are older, in terms of when and what not, but for now I think they are too young to take on that responsibility in full.

My ds decides what he will eat from the choices offered. We provide a large variety and let him eat whatever he wants. I think giving them freedom within structure is important.

Just my two cents on the matter!


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## swampangel (Feb 10, 2007)

I posted before I read the other posts. I gotta say that I think this is a very personal, individualized thing for families. Our country is so screwed up about food that it doesn't surprise me that the OP is concerned about making an issue out something like this.

I have to say, though, I think some rules are good ones...for adults as well as kids. Eating at the table is good in so many ways...it creates a ritual with food that involves everyone sitting together or being in the same place. It also decreases mindless eating which can happen when you're doing other things while shoveling food in your mouth. It basically makes one more aware of their body signals and intake when you devote a space and place to eat. I think it's a very good thing.

These are things we really do learn. Yes, certain things just happen naturally but we aren't living in a vacuum. Food is a loaded issue for a lot of people and personally I'm interested in getting my kiddos off to as good of a start as possible with eating sensibly and consciously.

So! I think some of the rules talked about - sitting at the table, eating during mealtimes, etc. - are really about establishing healthy eating habits. It's taken me my entire life to get healthy with food and it didn't come naturally! Living in our society really makes that hard.


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## Montessorimom8 (Mar 6, 2006)

mothragirl;8419555 i can't sit and have a meal said:


> https://www.mothering.com/img/vbsmilies/smilies/dizzy.gif[/IMG]: I'm confused - you as the adult don't have the attention span to sit and have a meal?


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

I don't think anyone has the RIGHT to make rules concerning how ANYONE else eats. (Health & safety aside, of course.) Hungry? Eat. Not hungry? Don't. Simple.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

I think rules for the sake of sanity are fine. I'm trying to remember back to when my kids were smaller, but now that they are older -- if they walk away from the table I consider them "finished." I ask them to go back and clear up. We also have the issue of a dog -- so anything left out on the table gets snitched up by her pretty fast.

I don't think you need to wait around for 2 hours while your kids graze. I don't really think its about food, or going to create food issues, to tell your kids that, "_We're leaving in 10 minutes. Last chance to eat what you need to feel full so that we can go."_ We also take unfinished food in the car, snacks in my purse, etc.


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## mountainsun (Jan 11, 2005)

Ds1 is 3 1/2 and he is in this phase where he pretty much grazes all day long. I am just trying to go with it. He will sit when we have lunch/ dinner, but only have a few bites. Then he will leave the table and kinda munch on and off. I do leave his food out for him, I will pick everything else up, but I wlways have food available for him. That is fine with me, I want him to keep on listening to his body.

I always have food in the car/ when we go out. In fact, most days, I pack a pb & j for him because inevtably, he will need a "meal" when we are out and about.

I understand your frustration, but I think making it less of an issue will in fact, make it less of an issue.

Good luck!


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

Quote:

"We need to leave in 15 minutes. I'm going to set the timer, when it beeps, you need to be done eating and go get dressed and ready to go."

Quote:

"We're leaving in 10 minutes. Last chance to eat what you need to feel full so that we can go."
I am so thankful for this b/c this is exactly (how simple) what I wanted "permission" to do.

I know it sounds crazy..well maybe not to those of you who suffer(ed) from eating disorders but I am so afraid of passing on my total confusion abut eating onto my kids..it is such a horrible way to live that I was afraid of even setting time limits at all. Those 2 things will totally work for me. thank you!


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## kristia (Jun 1, 2007)

This is an interesting thread and quite frankly I never thought of how we actually eat. I never considered that we have "rules" for our eating habits. I am home with dd and we sit down together to eat breakfast and lunch and daddy joins us at dinner. dd is 19mo and hasn't started to be picky yet, I'm sure it is coming. She eats heartily at most every meal. She usually lets me know she is done when she starts throwing the food on the floor for the dog. He sits right at her feet at every meal, licking his chops!!! The dog is one reason why we eat our actual meals at the table. I have a fast metabolism and dd is built just like me so we do nosh all day, but I really try to offer healthy snacks. Is it a "rule" to sit down together to have a meal or is it family time? Whatever works for you and your family just as long as everyone is happy and healthy.


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

Quote:

hasn't started to be picky yet, I'm sure it is coming.
It may not be. my DD is not picky. she does have certain foods (kielbasa but who could blame her) that she doesn't like but all in all she easy to feed.
My DS however has always been picky.


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## bdavis337 (Jan 7, 2005)

My kids eat all througout the day. They eat mesy stuff at the table, and I allow crackers or other easy stuff in the living room. They cannot have food upstairs, and as I'm not excited about a destroyed carpet just so they can eat cereal in front of the tv, we do have some basic rules about what's allowed where. I leave a bowl of crackers, raisins, cubed cheese, etc. on the table all day long and they graze from it. I do put it up about an hour before lunch and dinner so they're ready for "real food", and then we sit in our chairs and eat that specific meal. I think it's appropriate to treat food like you would any other "issue" in your home - there are guidelines, and even requirements. My 6 year old is not allowed to help himself to whatever he finds in the frig, he has to ask. He didn't buy it, he doesn't know what I might need it for and he doesn't know how close to mealtime it might be.


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

We have always, always, always had set meal and snack times.

Our rules were as follows:

*Meals: You can eat anything on the table but nothing else is offerred.* We tried to have at least one thing that everyone liked and each girl got to help plan one meal per week. If you leave the table you are done.

Snacks: A list is posted on the pantry door. You can choose anything on the list. Snacks are eaten in the kitchen, sitting down.

Here was a typical menu from the range where I had a 3 year old, a 4 year old and a 6 year old:

*Breakfast:* On table: Cherrios, Granola, Yogurt, Fresh Stawberries, Orange Juice, water, milk

*Snack*: (Sample items: banana, cucumber and tomatoes, celery with peanut butter, dry cereal, yougurt)

*Lunch*: Vegetable Soup, Tomato Soup, Grilled Cheese, Sweet potato chips, Carrots and Salsa.

Snack

*Dinner*: Salmon, Baked Potatos, Bowls of Chedder Cheese, Mozzarell Cheese, Spinach, Sour Cream, Tomatoes, Edamame, Ceasar Salad, Rasberries and Blueberry Salad.

*Here's another dinner menu:* Pasta with bowls of meat sauce, marinara sauce, plain bread, garlic bread, Stips of chicken breast, peas, Mozzarella, basil and tomato salad, Bananas and Blackberries.

*Here's another (I keep them on my computer...we still use them today)*: Skirt Steak, Mashed Potatoes, Itallian "Salad Bar" (bowls of Lettuce, tomoato, cucumber, feta, olives, peppers, olive oil, balsamic vinegar) carrots, mushrooms.

*Snack* Milk and Treat (small piece of candy, cookie etc) or any of our other listed snacks.

Now my girls, have a power bar and milk for breakfast and bring salads or pitas with stuff inside wtih some fruit for lunch. No snacks either, usually. But we still have our family dinners and I still use these menus!

No one ever complained that they were hungry in addion to the snacks and meals. If they had I would have added another set snack time. Often they would reject the snack.


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## swampangel (Feb 10, 2007)

I think part of the challenge with grazing is that it's hard to get a very balanced diet going. A friend of mine did that for a long time and then realized when her ds was about 3 1/2 that he was not eating a very balanced diet.

Anyway, I think the idea of meals and presented a balanced selection is teaching kids to think about what they are eating, how it makes them feel, the energy it gives them, when they are hungry, etc. If you graze all day, you rarely feel the hunger cues and end up eating snack types of foods rather than wholesome meals. Some things just take some time to prepare and I think that is a ritual that is important and healthy in the whole perception of nourishing our bodies.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

I do talk to my kids about eating a balance of foods -- but that said, I have also read several studies on the subject that found when children have access to a variety of healthy foods, they choose a balanced diet over the long haul. In the space of one or two days, it might look very imbalanced -- all carbs or something. But that when recorded over a period of months, and then evaluated as a whole, the diets of children who graze like this look pretty ideal. Now -- if there is junk food around, it becomes an option, then it throws the whole thing off.


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## aaronsmom (Jan 22, 2007)

My 16 mo old DS grazes all day long. Usually I'll just put some fruit or crackers on the coffee table for him and he'll take a bite, run to play, then come back when he wants another bite.
We don't have set mealtimes because I've always grazed as well. If I feel like cooking something, I will but since my DH has an unpredictable work schedule (he'll come home anywhere between 3 pm to 8 pm since he works construction) we don't have a set dinner time either. Usually, DS and I eat when we're hungry and if I make a meal I just put some in the fridge for DH or he makes himself something when he comes home.
We're just a grazing family.
The only "rule" I have is that if DS is eating yogurt or something of the sort, he'll eat it in the high chair or I'll feed it to him to avoid a huge mess on the floor. But I usually vacuum crumbs two-three times a day. Doesn't bother me in the least.
EDIT: To the OP, since your kids seem to be grazers and you have problems with snacks and having to leave, I recommend the snack trap for the car. It's awesome! I don't know if I'm allowed to post a link to where you can get it or not but PM me if you want to know.


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## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

My son has SID and is a horrible eater. We are working hard to introduce some foods he will eat .. otherwise he'd be happy to live off drinking a few PediaSure drinks each day.

So I let him eat what he wants, when he wants. Often we sit together on the couch and talk and I help him eat (otherwise he gets distracted). At school he's expected to eat at certain times, sitting at the table. I certainly don't think there is anything wrong with it, and if you want to implement that rule, I say go for it.

In the case where they get hungry just as you are ready to leave, I'd probably just take some food in the car. We do that often because my son eats really well from his booster seat while we are driving places.

But to answer your question, I don't think there is anything wrong with having meal times at the table that don't drag on all day. I'd be inclined to do something similar if I didn't already have such a challenging eater.


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## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aaronsmom* 
My 16 mo old DS grazes all day long. Usually I'll just put some fruit or crackers on the coffee table for him and he'll take a bite, run to play, then come back when he wants another bite.
We don't have set mealtimes because I've always grazed as well. If I feel like cooking something, I will but since my DH has an unpredictable work schedule (he'll come home anywhere between 3 pm to 8 pm since he works construction) we don't have a set dinner time either. Usually, DS and I eat when we're hungry and if I make a meal I just put some in the fridge for DH or he makes himself something when he comes home.
We're just a grazing family.
The only "rule" I have is that if DS is eating yogurt or something of the sort, he'll eat it in the high chair or I'll feed it to him to avoid a huge mess on the floor. But I usually vacuum crumbs two-three times a day. Doesn't bother me in the least.
EDIT: To the OP, since your kids seem to be grazers and you have problems with snacks and having to leave, I recommend the snack trap for the car. It's awesome! I don't know if I'm allowed to post a link to where you can get it or not but PM me if you want to know.

I would love to have the link to the snack trap. You can PM me, or I'm sure it's fine to post it here.


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## PreggieUBA2C (Mar 20, 2007)

We're also grazers, but if we do have a time constraint, we use the time-limit method to allow our dc ample time to finish what they want to eat. We also always take individual containers with a small assortment of snacks into the van everyday. The containers will have raisins, whole grain crackers, apple slices and cubed cheese or other items according to what we have available.

We sit down for breakfast every day (bananas, berries, milk and nuts in a bowl with whole grain toast on the side, occassionally oatmeal with raisins- definitely table meal). They have started to eat an enormous breakfast- much more than either dh or I can eat and since this is how they are eating, we eat lunch rarely, just graze on fruit, veggies, etc... and dependent upon what we're having, if we're having lunch at all, we will sometimes eat at the table. Usually but not always, we have dinner which we eat at the table.

Our dc do know that once they've come down from the table, they are done (unless it's to use the toilet, of course) and this is because our kitchen set-up means that most of us have to move when one has to leave the table or come back. I don't know if we would have that rule otherwise. We are planning to have a low table with floor seating on cushions in our new home, so dc will be able to move as they please; this set-up will influence our food choices as well, though, so their moving may or may not be an issue. We'll have to see.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

What I do, is I sit food out for ds. I ask him if he's done if he hasn't touched it for a while (and I'm very lenient about leaving stuff out, so sometimes it's an hour or more). If he's not done, I leave it.
But if I'm cleaning, or otherwise just really feel the need to put it up (after plenty of time, of course), I say something like "ok, I'm going to clean this up. If you still want something after I get this cleaned up, I'll get it for you."
And I mean it- if he still wants something- even the same thing, I'll get it for him. But usually it doesn't even go there. After the food gets put up, he realizes that he's doesn't really want to eat anymore.
I think there's something to it, that if there's food left, he feels like he shouldn't be done eating (even though I've never been a clean plate promoter), or he still wants to eat (even if he's not hungry).

My only real food rule is that I won't get out a new x if he hasn't finished the x (exact same thing) that he's already eating. Ie, if he's eating a strawberry yogurt, I won't get out another strawberry yogurt until he's done with the first one. (obviously, if it's fruit that's browned or something, I'll get him new).
Seems like a really logical "rule" to me, but it caused a few meltdowns in the past. lol.


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## warriorprincess (Nov 19, 2001)

I only give the kids a time limit if we have to get out the door.

I have two rules: food must be eaten over a hardwood floor ( or the backyard) and if DC gets out food they must finish it before they get new food. If the foods gone over I make an exception but for a while we were composting a lot of half eaten fruit and we are on a TIGHT grocery budget- we just can't do that.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

I think its entirely reasonable to have some boundaries around food and meals, but I also think that some people go way overboard for my tastes. And as someone else pointed out, this is a really individual thing for each family to figure out.

In our house, we have family breakfast and dinner (and lunch on weekends, but we are all out on weekdays). DH or I cooks (or assembles) those meals and we all eat together. The together is really key for us and helps everyone actually sit down and eat. But the kids are excused as soon as they say they are full, regardless of whether I think they have eaten enough or not. And if we prepare something they don't want or like, they are allowed to get themselves an alternative. But I don't get up and do it so I'm not a short order cook and I get to eat hot good food myself. They are 4 and 7 and have been getting their own alternative foods since they were about 2.

Snacks are much freer. During the week they eat snack at school, so that is a set time and a set snack that we don't have any control over. They know this and eat breakfast accordingly.

At home (afternoons, weekends) they are free to help themselves to anything they want when they want. I make it easier by having a snack bin in the pantry, fruit on the counter, and all of their snack-y foods together in reach in the fridge. But they are responsible for their own snacking. I do remind them, politely, to throw away trash and such and that is an issue that we are working on. I will also put out snack trays with an assortment of options for them if they are hosting a playdate, mostly to keep strange children from rummaging through the kitchen.

For us, this is a good compromise. Meals together ensure family time and some guarentee of nutrition. It also gives us a chance to both cook and eat together, and both kids are learning to cook and appreciate good food. And gives us a chance to coach table manners -- one area that I've seen other children who freely graze without family meals are sometimes (not always) woefully lacking. Being able to get their own alternatives if they don't like something respects their tastebuds and preferences while protecting my right to eat hot food. And giving them control over their snacking means they can eat when and what they want during the day, giving them control over their bodies and teaching them to understand their body's signals.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaduck* 
I think rules for the sake of sanity are fine. I'm trying to remember back to when my kids were smaller, but now that they are older -- if they walk away from the table I consider them "finished." I ask them to go back and clear up. We also have the issue of a dog -- so anything left out on the table gets snitched up by her pretty fast.

Your house sounds like mine! Random food left lying around will get eaten by our dog! My kids are old enough to carry their dirty dishes back to the kitchen -- so they decide when they are done and they help clean up after themselves.

Quote:

"_We're leaving in 10 minutes. Last chance to eat what you need to feel full so that we can go."_ We also take unfinished food in the car, snacks in my purse, etc.
I agree. Cold cereal in a bag, french toast sticks, raw vegies all make good car snacks.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hipumpkins* 
I know it sounds crazy..well maybe not to those of you who suffer(ed) from eating disorders but I am so afraid of passing on my total confusion abut eating onto my kids..it is such a horrible way to live that I was afraid of even setting time limits at all. Those 2 things will totally work for me. thank you!









I've never had an eating disorder, but I found this a funky issue when my kids were small. My goal was to find a solution that truly worked for all of us. I wanted a way to have a plan but not be controlling.

I decided on regular meals times but the kids always having access to healthy snacks because:

1. It was easier for me, which meant that I had more enjoy to be patient and kind and an all around good mom.

2. It encouraged my kids to try different foods, rather than sticking with the super easy to grap things.

3. It helped regulate their eating. When they grazed more and had regular meals less, one of my DDs wouldn't eat much all day, and then at night would eat and eat an eat and couldn't seem to get full.

4. Keeping easy things for them to get whenever they want -- yogurts, dry fruit, etc. -- means they are free to eat when they are hungry.

5. Doing most of their eating at the table means that the rest of the house stays cleaner. There isn't food all over everything they own.

On a practical note, you might try reading to them during breakfast. When my kids were smaller, I often read their library books to them during breakfast because it helped them sit still and focus on their meal. It's a nice way to start the day.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaduck* 
I have also read several studies on the subject that found when children have access to a variety of healthy foods, they choose a balanced diet over the long haul.

In the studies that I've seen, the kids only had access to healthy foods. They had no salt, no sugar, etc. Although we eat healthy as a family, we don't eat like that! My kids have access to the many wonders that our culture has come up with -- such as ice cream and chocolate. I feel serving them regular balanced meals helps them develop life long healthy habits.


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Montessorimom8* 







: I'm confused - you as the adult don't have the attention span to sit and have a meal?

Not all adults have the same attention spans.







Are you familiar with ADD/ADHD at all? Whether you believe it's as widespread as it is or that it's a "problem" or just a variation in people, some people do have to deal with it. If my caffeine level isn't just so, I have to fight to sit through an entire meal with my family.

As far as the OP's concerns, I'm a big fan of leaving snacks available whenever. My DH was taught as a child to ignore his hunger and only eat during mealtimes. He has blood sugar crashes and spikes because he won't eat for hours on end because he just never knows when he's really hungry. He waits until he's absolutely starving because that's where he got to as a child on someone else's schedule. I'm having a lot of trouble helping him figure out how to eat when he really needs to again.


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## swampangel (Feb 10, 2007)

This seems to be another area where what is important is to pay attention to your child and what they need in terms of meals/schedules/rules/etc. My ds would go for hours without eating if I didn't suggest it. He just is too busy doing other things to stop to eat. His papa is the same way. My younger babe is much more of an eater it seems. He enjoys sitting at the table and munching away. Friends of mine also have kids who get very excited about sitting down to a meal and seem to really enjoy eating.

I do think governing how much is not a good idea...that's when it's important for them to listen to their bodies. There's no way I can tell if their tummies are full...none of my business. But it is my business to present healthy options (and give in to the occassional treat now and then).


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## sugarmoon (Feb 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I get the feeling they are sensing your controlling nature about food.

Seriously?









I think the OP seems to have anything but a controlling nature.

I think some food rules would be totally fine! I used to be pretty free-for-all when it came to food, but frankly (and flame away, I'm happy with my decision) I got sick of it -- I got sick of the food waste, I got sick of the mess, I got sick of being out of fruit the day after grocery shopping (and yes, I buy *plenty* of fruit), I got sick of my kids being grumpy b/c they didn't eat enough protein, I got sick of cooking a decent meal and having nobody eat b/c they were gorging themselves on crackers while I was cooking.....

We do 3 meals and 2 snacks per day, generally. I offer food every 2-3 hours. For breakfast, if I cook (pancakes, crepes, waffles, eggs etc) then that is what is offered -- if it is cereal or toast they can choose from those, and I always serve milk (cow or soy is their choice) for the protien. Snacks are always from at least 2, and usually 3 categories of food -- veggies and dip made from yogurt, crackers and cheese with apple slices etc. Lunch is sometimes more like dinner, sometimes more like a big snack, and dinner is usually whichever of those that lunch wasn't. Again, if I really cook a meal, then that is the only thing served. If I do sandwiches or something, then there is usually a choice btwn pbj and cheese/lettuce or lunchmeat if we have it.

I don't leave food on the table when the meal time is done. Our cats get into it anyway. If someone really wasn't hungry, I'll save their plate for later, but if later gets to be right before dinner then they have to wait for dinner. I don't save stuff that I know they won't eat later (cereal, cold toast, soggy pancakes -- obviously this varies kid to kid).


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## smartair (Apr 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I think this is awful. I'm glad you offer something that they like, but I really disagree with limiting snacks like that. My sister has an incredibly fast metabolism and really NEEDS to eat very often. She always has.

We'd actually ALL be healthier if we ate more often in smaller amounts. Humans are really a snacking animal by nature.

-Angela

I am sorry you feel that way but it works for us... My 32lb, 2 year old would sit and eat all day if I let him. Because of my limitations he has a very healthy diet. To each his own!


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## melissel (Jun 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaduck* 
I think rules for the sake of sanity are fine. I'm trying to remember back to when my kids were smaller, but now that they are older -- if they walk away from the table I consider them "finished." I ask them to go back and clear up. We also have the issue of a dog -- so anything left out on the table gets snitched up by her pretty fast.

I don't think you need to wait around for 2 hours while your kids graze. I don't really think its about food, or going to create food issues, to tell your kids that, "_We're leaving in 10 minutes. Last chance to eat what you need to feel full so that we can go."_ We also take unfinished food in the car, snacks in my purse, etc.

Do you live in my house? This is pretty much how I operate. We didn't have problems with breakfast, we had problems with dragging dinner out until bedtime was pushed back by at least an hour. (And yes, we needed bedtime. If we missed the window, DD1 couldn't fall asleep for another hour and a half, but was a weeping, wailing mess the whole time.) When dinner's dragging, I'll finally say, "I'm clearing in 10 minutes, come finish if you're hungry. Otherwise please clear your bowl to the sink!" Half the time, they come and eat more. Half the time, they say, "I'm done!" and clear their plates. It works for us. Otherwise, they're free to snack all day long, if they're hungry. But I did have to make a rule about finishing up a meal (really just dinner) so that I could finally begin to end the day!


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## aaronsmom (Jan 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mistymama* 
I would love to have the link to the snack trap. You can PM me, or I'm sure it's fine to post it here.









Ok. I'll post it here so everyone else can have it, too. http://www.jamtots.com/Snack-Trap-C456.aspx
It's an ingenious little contraption!


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## 2tadpoles (Aug 8, 2004)

When my kids were younger, we had pretty "set" mealtimes, but they were always allowed to snack. I don't buy a lot of junk food, so if they were to snack, most of their snacks would be okay foods.

Now that they're older and DH and I work weird hours, the only "set" meal is dinner. We've had trouble with getting the kids up in the morning, but my boys actually told me last week that they'd be willing to get up earlier (which is what I'd like) if they had a hot breakfast ready for them every morning. I absolutely hate cooking breakfast, so this is a big deal for me, but I am willing to do it.

Anyway, I don't see anything wrong with moderate rules regarding food. When life is busy, being a short order cook can wear a person down.

And for those who have expressed here that they feel kids should be able to eat whenever they're hungry, I hope you plan to homeschool.


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## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Dd is only 13 months old, but we absolutely plan on doing family, sit-down meals. We all eat breakfast together at the table every morning. Currently, dd naps when I have lunch, but she has an afternoon snack with me, at the table. Right now, she goes to bed before dinner (she likes to go to sleep early, so there's not enough time between when dh gets home and when she goes to bed)--but dh and I eat dinner together every night, so dd will join us when she's older.

I think family mealtimes are wonderful--a great chance to talk and catch up, and they provide a little structure to the day. Like PP, we will put an array of foods on the table and nothing else will be served--but it's not like we'll force dd to eat anything. She can snack as much as she wants, on healthy choices, between meals.

I'm a little surprised that people think having meals together as a family is somehow bad. There's a limit to the kinds of foods you can graze on--sit-down meals provide opportunities to experience different kinds of food and to try new things. Especially when families are busy, meals provide built in "family time." I'm not saying to force your kids to eat (I definitely don't believe in that) and I also think it's a bad idea to disallow a hungry kid to have a snack, but I do think that sharing meals together is important. When I was young, my whole family always ate dinner together, but by the time I was in middle school, it had pretty much stopped as the older kids got older and my mom got sick of cooking. Honestly, it was a real loss emotionally and my diet was much poorer b/c I was eating a lot more convenience foods.


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## josephine_e (May 27, 2006)

i haven't read all the posts yet, but i just wanted to throw this in. i like the idea of "structure" better than the idea of "rules" ... i recently spent a month at a zen temple where there was definitely a lot of structure. we ate at the same time every day, often in silence. these weren't "rules" that someone enforced ... it was just the way we did it and i found that it was great! of course, if there was a really good reason that i couldn't participate, i would be allowed to skip a meal ... but that really rarely happened and otherwise everyone was expected to participate in the structure. eating with other people in that kind of way is definitely a bonding experience. this is something dh and i are trying to figure out now (how to eat at least one or two meals together around his work schedule) i'm not sure how old your kids are, but maybe they could even help deciding when and how you all want to eat meals. then, once it's decided, it will be a group thing and not mom enforcing the rules. this might take some of the power struggle out of it. maybe you could make it a fun thing -- like lunches get picnic status or everyone participates in cooking dinner ...

also, ita with pp's about snacks being available all the time. i think that your kids will learn healthy eating from your example and their own experience, as long as it isn't a power struggle.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Quote:

I'm a little surprised that people think having meals together as a family is somehow bad.
Oh no! I don't think anyone is suggesting that at all. I doubt anyone here would debate that family mealtime is a really nice experience, when everyone is interested and behaving nicely.

Its just that the toddler/preschool age kids have such a hard time with it. I think that a lot of people are suggesting that creating a lot of requirements around mealtime and food issues can create power struggles that may lead to hang ups about food. Its one perspective.

Many of us (me included) were lax about keeping our kids at the table in a chair when they were little, instead just letting them come and go and graze. It was a phase -- my kids sit very nicely at the table now, because they want to and they enjoy it, not because its mandatory.


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## sanguine_speed (May 25, 2005)

We definitely have food 'rules' though many of the people I know IRL would call them way too lax. DD1 had food texture issues from the beginning, and is sensitive in general to any stimuli. This led to my consulting with registered dieticians and public health, which in turn led me to reading Ellyn Satter's books. Anyone else familiar with them?
Very generally, the premise is that adults have the responsibility of "what" and chidlren have the responsibility of "how much, if any". It advocates predictable meal times so that children can learn to predict time distance between meals and "fill up" accordingly (or not). So, meal time is when it is, and you eat as much as you want (if any) and on it goes throughout the day, with some attention to serving foods you know your child normally likes instead of new foods all the time, or less liked foods all the time. This approach really helped DD1 with becoming used to new foods; the no pressure approach with structure really worked: "you do not have to eat this food, but I'm putting it on your plate. you may try it if you would like". Also, we do not accept complaining or whining about food. "EEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWW!" is NOT an acceptable response to a new food. Part of this is my belief that at some level, I would like my family to appreciate what bountiful food choices we have and how fortunate we are to have them. The other part is my sanity. It's pretty awful to spend hours making a new special meal to be responded to with "ewww, that's disgusting!".

The planned or scheduled meals and snacks has put an absolute end to panhandling at our house between meals. That said, when we first introduced planned meal times, we had about 8 eating times per day. We adjusted that as we found appropriate for our family's needs, and now it's 6 times a day. Works great for us, and while I do appreciate that "eat when and what you want" philosophy, it does not work for us. It is not just about the children; I as a mother need some structure and sanity in my life to be a good parent.


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## Aeress (Jan 25, 2005)

The only thing I find fustrating is when they ask for food 10minutes after we just had a meal.

Well actually, I have another. My oldest will walk into the kitchen and say "ewww xyz. I don't like xyz."







: No, you don't have to eat it. I kind of lost it tonight when I had just asked her what she wanted becuase we were having something she didn't like and she still complained about dinner. Seriously, you don't have to eat it, you can have something else.







:


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## Roar (May 30, 2006)

Recently I read an article that supported what I've observed with people we know. Families that don't have family meals are more likely to end up with kids who eat a very restricted diet. It is important that kids see other people eating a variety of foods together as a social experience. It is very easy with the array of snack type foods and kid friendly foods to get into a habit of just giving kids bits of what you know they will eat rather than having a normal social experience of eating a wider variety of foods. If it is important to your family over the long term that your kid eat something other than baby carrots and goldfish crackers I think it is worth making some effort to have regular family meals.


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2tadpoles* 
And for those who have expressed here that they feel kids should be able to eat whenever they're hungry, I hope you plan to homeschool.









One of the many reasons.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:

I'm a little surprised that people think having meals together as a family is somehow bad.
I don't think anyone said it was bad.

However I personally find chewing and eating not to be particularly...relevant?...to spending quality time with others. It's more the talking and hanging out that generates a sense of closeness for me. So, if my interest was in setting aside quality time to spend with family each day, we'd be more likely to sit around and talk, or go for a walk, or play a game, or something like that as a focus.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:

Recently I read an article that supported what I've observed with people we know. Families that don't have family meals are more likely to end up with kids who eat a very restricted diet. It is important that kids see other people eating a variety of foods together as a social experience. It is very easy with the array of snack type foods and kid friendly foods to get into a habit of just giving kids bits of what you know they will eat rather than having a normal social experience of eating a wider variety of foods. If it is important to your family over the long term that your kid eat something other than baby carrots and goldfish crackers I think it is worth making some effort to have regular family meals.
Well, that wasn't our experience.

We homeschool, ds is around us all the time, so he sees us eating. It's not necessary to eat on a schedule or eat in tandem in order for him to understand there are many foods in the world that others enjoy, and which he might like to try.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaduck* 
I think that a lot of people are suggesting that creating a lot of requirements around mealtime and food issues can create power struggles that may lead to hang ups about food.

yes. Gently encouraging some structure but not having any requirments was the happy medium for us.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *brendon* 
My oldest will walk into the kitchen and say "ewww xyz. I don't like xyz."







: No, you don't have to eat it. I kind of lost it tonight when I had just asked her what she wanted becuase we were having something she didn't like and she still complained about dinner.

I think that her behavior doesn't have anything to do with eating, but just with manners. Different people like different foods. We needn't comment on things that other people like that we do not. This is just about teaching basic manners, not about controlling food.


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## bdavis337 (Jan 7, 2005)

I think the general consenus here is that you need to find the thing that works for YOUR family. If random eating throughout the day doesn't work for your kids and your family life, than it's not for your family, and that's ok. Set whatever structure is appropriate for YOUR family. I have one kid who would go from dawn to dusk without eating a single bite, and another who eats literally nonstop. I need a "set" time for breakfast, lunch and dinner so my oldest will sit down and eat. My toddler snacks a lot, and I do "restrict" his snacking an hour or so before mealtime so he'll be able to eat what I"ve prepared for that meal (snacking works between meals for him, but he DOES need the substance of a full meal to keep going).

As for me, I'm 8 months pg. I eat nonstop.







My hsuband, he's not pregnant, and he also eats nonstop. It's all about what is right for your family.


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## aggie11381 (Jan 21, 2007)

As a few PPs have said, getting a balanced diet is so important and that's hard to do by grazing. It's important to have protein and fiber at every meal and that takes thought ahead of time - ie if I eat some oatmeal at 7am, I should have some protein (cottage cheese, eggs) at 10am.

Last year I was having some weird symptoms like sweating, shaking and dizziness. After consulting with my doctor, I realized my diet was horrible even though I am a healthy weight. I would eat a ton of fruit, yogurt and milk - healthy foods, but loaded with sugar. I avoided cheese and meat because of cholesterol worries. So big blood sugar crashes twice a day like clockwork. A little diet change and I lost 10lbs and feel great.

No kids for me yet, so I don't have advice about meal times. I did enjoy as a kid sitting down for dinner and the whole family discussing our day.


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## fuller2 (Nov 7, 2004)

Wow. I do feel like there is a sort of anti-mealtime vibe on this thread, which really surprises me. I think the idea of structure is excellent. I also think that mealtimes can be an incredibly civilized and wonderful experience. (ever had a family meal in Italy, where they can literally last for 3 hours?)

My family is of Italian descent actually, and mealtimes have always been a lovely experience on my mom's side. Lots of talking, laughing, being together, and always a wide variety of things to choose from. (My friends laugh at me if I have a dinner party because I always make enough food to feed 20 people!)

I treasure my mealtimes with my son. (He's 4 now.) I'm a working single mother and being able to sit and have breakfast and dinner with him is so important. I guess so much of the rest of our lives are very structured by my work schedule, his school schedule, his visitation with dad schedule, that I can't imagine mealtimes being sort of non-events.

When he was younger he used to get up and run around whenever he wanted, but I always stayed at the table. I guess about a year or two ago he mostly stopped doing that and now he sits with me and we talk, read books, etc. We don't always eat the same thing but most of the time we do. (Luckily he likes salmon, which is really quick to make.)

I have found that even at this age, he starts telling me things at dinner about his life, his day, etc. that never come up at any other time. So far (knock on wood) he really doesn't seem to have any issues with food, has never been super picky, etc.

It's also very important to me that he understands that mealtimes are also relaxing time for me, so even if he finishes before I do and runs off to play (which is the way his meals usually end!), I will stay, and tell him why. Sometimes he protests but I really want him to understand that mealtimes are almost a sacred ritual, something very important that we don't rush through unless we have to (though sometimes we do have to.) And also that Mommy has been running all day! and she just wants to sit and eat a meal without being continually interrupted (even though I usually still am







).

I don't know. I think that very small children need their adults to structure their days. I think that many kids would consent to mealtimes with beginnings, middles and ends if their parents made them that way, and -- I don't think this is a bad idea at all. It really seems strange to me that this is somehow frowned upon here!! I remember having many very nice meals with my parents, especially my mom, even as a teenager.

Snacks: He loves trail mix! so I constantly have a bag of nuts and raisins with me that he can have whenever he wants. If he doesn't want dinner I'll just give him trail mix. I bet 1/3 of his diet is nuts!


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aggie11381* 
It's important to have protein and fiber at every meal and that takes thought ahead of time - ie if I eat some oatmeal at 7am, I should have some protein (cottage cheese, eggs) at 10am.

Oatmeal is pretty high in protein.

Overall, it's not that hard to balance out food by grazing. There are a few things that you probably want to sit at a table and eat (especially if you're a toddler







) but most things are conducive to snatching a bite here and there, or picking off a tray in the living room. I'll even grab a bowl of yogurt or soup and bring it in the living room and DD and I will carefully share it while we're doing other stuff.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

We don't have set mealtimes. My daughter grazes all day on whatever she wants - sugar is a battle but other than that we're pretty easygoing around food. I keep lots of foods in the house that she likes and are healthy, most are very easy to prepare, and I just fix her food whenever she wants.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaduck* 
Oh no! I don't think anyone is suggesting that at all. I doubt anyone here would debate that family mealtime is a really nice experience, when everyone is interested and behaving nicely.

Its just that the toddler/preschool age kids have such a hard time with it. I think that a lot of people are suggesting that creating a lot of requirements around mealtime and food issues can create power struggles that may lead to hang ups about food. Its one perspective.

Many of us (me included) were lax about keeping our kids at the table in a chair when they were little, instead just letting them come and go and graze. It was a phase -- my kids sit very nicely at the table now, because they want to and they enjoy it, not because its mandatory.









:

I don't have any problem asking kids to come to the table and be part of the experience. I recognize though that for a 2 or 3 yr old that may only last 3 minutes.

What I have a problem with is people withholding, limiting, setting time limits on or forcing food.

-Angela


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I don't have any problem asking kids to come to the table and be part of the experience. I recognize though that for a 2 or 3 yr old that may only last 3 minutes.

Most toddlers I know, including DS, have no problem sitting at the table for 20-30 minutes and eating dinner. Is it really that unusual? (Edit: I know I'm going to get a rude awakening with my second child and come back here to eat my words.







)

Even when DS was tiny he was a part of our mealtime experience. Back then, that may have just meant that he nursed while we ate, then when he got bigger he might sit in my lap and gum small pieces of my food, then he started sitting in his high chair and eating finger foods, and now, at 2.5 he sits down to dinner after he sets the table.

I guess it's not so much that we have "rules" about that as that it's just an expectation, on our part and on DS's part -- he doesn't know any other way and would probably be bewildered and ask me why I forgot about dinner if I gave him snacks while he played rather than having us sit at the table to eat.

For those of you whose kids roam during dinner, do *you* eat at the table? What does your toddler do while you're eating? Or do you eat after they go to bed? Or do you all just kind of graze and never sit down to eat?


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## swampangel (Feb 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fuller2* 
Sometimes he protests but I really want him to understand that mealtimes are almost a sacred ritual, something very important that we don't rush through unless we have to (though sometimes we do have to.)

I don't know. I think that very small children need their adults to structure their days. I think that many kids would consent to mealtimes with beginnings, middles and ends if their parents made them that way, and -- I don't think this is a bad idea at all. It really seems strange to me that this is somehow frowned upon here!! I remember having many very nice meals with my parents, especially my mom, even as a teenager.

ITA with everything you've said here and loved your post. I can imagine as a single mom that those times when you are together with no interruptions is priceless. Good for you for making that a priority!

We sorely lack rituals in our culture and I think the family eating together is such a basic one. Meals have been a social/communal event throughout the ages (even in the animal kingdom, as so many like to make that connection!). I agree that the kind of connection and conversation that can come up at the dinner table is different than in other aspects of our days.

To each their own, of course, but I have always found meals to be a lovely thing to share.


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## swampangel (Feb 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
Most toddlers I know, including DS, have no problem sitting at the table for 20-30 minutes and eating dinner. Is it really that unusual? (Edit: I know I'm going to get a rude awakening with my second child and come back here to eat my words.







)

Even when DS was tiny he was a part of our mealtime experience. Back then, that may have just meant that he nursed while we ate, then when he got bigger he might sit in my lap and gum small pieces of my food, then he started sitting in his high chair and eating finger foods, and now, at 2.5 he sits down to dinner after he sets the table.

I guess it's not so much that we have "rules" about that as that it's just an expectation, on our part and on DS's part -- he doesn't know any other way and would probably be bewildered and ask me why I forgot about dinner if I gave him snacks while he played rather than having us sit at the table to eat.

Our kids are the same...sitting at the table has never been boring or a problem for them. My oldest does have a very long attention span, so he might be a bit unusual in that way, but my youngest (now 13 mos) sits with us for the duration of the meal and loves it. We engage with one another and have great conversation. It's a lovely way to end the day especially when my dh has been working and this is our time to really all sit with one another and just be.

It's probably all about past experiences with food/meals for us as parents and the expectations we have for our kids. Dinner as a family has always been an important thing for me and as the pp said, my oldest would probably be quite confused if we didn't all sit down together for meals.


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
Most toddlers I know, including DS, have no problem sitting at the table for 20-30 minutes and eating dinner. Is it really that unusual? (Edit: I know I'm going to get a rude awakening with my second child and come back here to eat my words.







)

Even when DS was tiny he was a part of our mealtime experience. Back then, that may have just meant that he nursed while we ate, then when he got bigger he might sit in my lap and gum small pieces of my food, then he started sitting in his high chair and eating finger foods, and now, at 2.5 he sits down to dinner after he sets the table.

I guess it's not so much that we have "rules" about that as that it's just an expectation, on our part and on DS's part -- he doesn't know any other way and would probably be bewildered and ask me why I forgot about dinner if I gave him snacks while he played rather than having us sit at the table to eat.

My kids also never had a problem sitting 20-30 minutes at this age. I think you are right in saying if its just the expecation and you all sit down, many kids (not all) will sit with you.


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## Decca (Mar 14, 2006)

Quote:

which in turn led me to reading Ellyn Satter's books. Anyone else familiar with them?
Very generally, the premise is that adults have the responsibility of "what" and chidlren have the responsibility of "how much, if any".
I LOVE her book _Child of Mine_ a lot and recommend it often. I grew up with the requirement that I _must_ clean my plate, and snacks were a rare treat, so I had a really hard time understanding my own hunger cues when I was a young adult. It's also helped me let go of the anxiety that my young toddler must eat, that he's not eating enough, etc. etc.


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## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
Most toddlers I know, including DS, have no problem sitting at the table for 20-30 minutes and eating dinner. Is it really that unusual? (Edit: I know I'm going to get a rude awakening with my second child and come back here to eat my words.







)

Yeah, I have to say...my experience dining with toddlers (family, friends) is that most of them can sit quite happily and enjoy a meal with the family for 20, 30 minutes. We just went out to brunch with all my parents' grandkids plus a family friend and her child--so the kids were infant, 13 months, 16 months, 2.5 years, 3 years--and no one had trouble sitting through the meal (well, the baby pretty much slept through it, so maybe she doesn't count







). I did have dd on my lap part of the time, but that was really it. I'm sure there are exceptions, of course.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
Most toddlers I know, including DS, have no problem sitting at the table for 20-30 minutes and eating dinner. Is it really that unusual? (Edit: I know I'm going to get a rude awakening with my second child and come back here to eat my words.







)

Even when DS was tiny he was a part of our mealtime experience. Back then, that may have just meant that he nursed while we ate, then when he got bigger he might sit in my lap and gum small pieces of my food, then he started sitting in his high chair and eating finger foods, and now, at 2.5 he sits down to dinner after he sets the table.

I guess it's not so much that we have "rules" about that as that it's just an expectation, on our part and on DS's part -- he doesn't know any other way and would probably be bewildered and ask me why I forgot about dinner if I gave him snacks while he played rather than having us sit at the table to eat.

A big







: to this. So far both of our kids have ust been at the table for the whole meal since they were tiny babes. Our meals rarely last longer than 20 minutes; it's never occurred to me to allow them down from the table before we're all done, and neither of them have ever freaked out in a high chair or booster wantign to get down. Our almost 3-1/2 yr old now sits in a regular chair and still sits for the whole meal on his own. And beleive me, he is NOT a calm, sedate child







...it's just been the thing we do since the beginning.


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## ameliabedelia (Sep 24, 2002)

Quote:

We'd actually ALL be healthier if we ate more often in smaller amounts. Humans are really a snacking animal by nature.

That is not true. Animals which graze (horses, cows, giraffes, zebras, rabbits, etc.) are meant to eat all the time. Carnivores (lions, tigers, etc.) are the other extreme..they make their kill, eat it and gorge and then may not eat again for days. Humans, (as omivores) are somewhere in the middle. Throughout ALL of history, humans have had set meal and snack times. They were too busy doing work (whether hunting, gathering, building huts, cooking, preparing food, tending animals, farming, etc., etc.,) to eat all the time. It is really only in our modern society where people have the "luxery" of eating very frequently (already prepared foods, lots of leisure time, sit-down jobs. You can't exactly be munching while plowing the fields.

Of course babies need to eat very frequently, as as children get older I think it is a natural progression to go from nursing/eating often to set meal and snack-times.

To the OP: I think your children are actually at different stages in this regard. I think your 4.5 year COULD learn to do set meals and snacks, however the (just turned) 2 yo probably can't, so that is kinda hard situation to be in..where children are close in ages, but at different stages of where their expectations are.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

I have four kids and we subscribe to the family mealtime idea for dinner. Breakfast is a get when you are ready kind of thing. I have one who eats immediately and one that waits about 10 minutes and two that can't stand to eat before they have been awake at least 30 minutes (I am like this as well). Lunch is hit and miss. Sunday we always sit down together for a lupper of sorts (lunch/supper) b/c it it typically closer to 2 before we sit down. The kids usually snack for dinner.

My kids are good to sit for at least 20 minutes, usually longer. We do follow the whole idea of once you get down, you are done b/c a few of our kids would do the eat, play, eat, play thing and it just doesn't work for our house. We enjoy meals together b/c we can all sit and see how everyone's day has gone. It is also the only meal dad can join us for b/c he is gone before we get up in the morning.


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ameliabedelia* 
That is not true. Animals which graze (horses, cows, giraffes, zebras, rabbits, etc.) are meant to eat all the time. Carnivores (lions, tigers, etc.) are the other extreme..they make their kill, eat it and gorge and then may not eat again for days. Humans, (as omivores) are somewhere in the middle. Throughout ALL of history, humans have had set meal and snack times. They were too busy doing work (whether hunting, gathering, building huts, cooking, preparing food, tending animals, farming, etc., etc.,) to eat all the time. It is really only in our modern society where people have the "luxery" of eating very frequently (already prepared foods, lots of leisure time, sit-down jobs. You can't exactly be munching while plowing the fields.

Of course babies need to eat very frequently, as as children get older I think it is a natural progression to go from nursing/eating often to set meal and snack-times.


Thanks for posting this. I wanted to correct the misinformation from a historical/anthropolgical standpoint, but never got around to it.

Humans all over the world sit down for meals. They rarely graze!


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:

That is not true. Animals which graze (horses, cows, giraffes, zebras, rabbits, etc.) are meant to eat all the time. Carnivores (lions, tigers, etc.) are the other extreme..they make their kill, eat it and gorge and then may not eat again for days. Humans, (as omivores) are somewhere in the middle. Throughout ALL of history, humans have had set meal and snack times.
Some, not all, and it would be difficult to say for sure whether even "most" did, because what makes it into written record isn't necessarily what was happening for all people at every level of any particular society.

I just read in a contemporary anthropology text, a native American recounting the meal routine in his boyhood community--foods were kept covered in a specific area, a kind of open air covered porch, and when you were hungry, you went over, got what you wanted, and ate. He described a pot of beans (I think) and stacks of tortilla-like breads...possibly fruit as well.

I've also read numerous references of contemporary nomadic and hunting societies, where foods are prepared and packed in the morning, and everyone just eats when hunger and opportunity coincided.

I don't know if "graze" in the sense that rabbits graze is accurate, but we have contemporary records of humans in different cultures who let _individual_ hunger determine when they eat, as opposed to the clock.


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## KLK7 (Jan 31, 2004)

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Originally Posted by *smartair* 
We eat at the table. Once you are done you are finished. We have one snack between meals. You eat what is offered.

This is how I was raised. And as a result, by the time I was a teenager, I hid food, horded food, stole food, and stole money from my mother's purse to buy food. I was starving all the time and by the time I was 14, I was 5'8" and only 100 lbs. I am one of those people that needs to eat and snack a lot and still do. Something you might want to keep in mind.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *smartair*
We eat at the table. Once you are done you are finished. We have one snack between meals. You eat what is offered.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *KLK7* 
This is how I was raised. And as a result, by the time I was a teenager, I hid food, horded food, stole food, and stole money from my mother's purse to buy food. I was starving all the time and by the time I was 14, I was 5'8" and only 100 lbs. I am one of those people that needs to eat and snack a lot and still do. Something you might want to keep in mind.

See this all goes to personal experience. For every child who this had a negative impact on their will probably be a child that had a positive impact. It really has to be watching your child's cues mixed with what works for the family.

We had set mealtimes and never really had snack time at all. We did have snacks after school once we started going, but no other times. I never did any of the things you mentioned above and never went hungry either. I don't have the metabolism you have as far as eating more often.

I wonder how many people have higher metabolisms that require food more often. I know there are people who do, but I wonder how common it is. I have five brothers and three sisters. I don't recall any of us having to eat more than at mealtime and I don't recall anyone being hungry in between. Not to say they weren't and just didn't say anything, but it just never came up. My youngest brother is only five though, so maybe he will have the need food more often thing happen later.


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

With my first I allowed grazing, it was very "in". But 4 kids later, no way. I simply do not have the energy to clean up all day from that or the time to waste on whether child 1,2,3, or 4 has eaten.

I think we have to teach our children good eating habits and there are pros and cons to just about everything out there.

But here is how it works in our house -
1) Food is only allowed in the kitchen (food in the vehicle only on vacation or long trips)
2) We eat at the table, sitting down. It creates a good habit for later in life and for those who struggle with weight issues one of the first lessons is to set a nice table and eat there and only there. It cuts down on mindless snacking and added pounds.
3) The children set the table, it's routine, it's a job for the family

As for meals, maybe b/c I've already trained them, I'm not sure -- but they get up and help themselves to cereal in the morning. I'm nursing the 4th right now, so I'm not up as soon as they are hungry. By the time I'm finished, they are finished and I clean up.
Sometimes they need a snack, sometimes I just serve lunch b/c it's close enough to noon time.
Lunch is fixed and served by me usually, when I was on bed rest my oldest fixed lunch for the others.
We have a snack in the afternoon or else I'm fighting off hungry children while I'm cooking dinner, like about now, it's 3:30pm
Dinner is served between 5:30 - 6:30 most evenings. If my dh is not home, we eat without him. If he is going to be in in just a few minutes and the kids are not appearing to be famished, then we wait.

I don't think learning to eat when it's served is a bad thing, depending on the age of the child. A toddler needs to eat when they are hungry, but they can still sit with the family at meal time. I'm not catering to every "I'm hungry", if I did, I'd never leave the kitchen. Of course, there are always options that do not require my doing anything - apples, bananas, grapes, cherries, GF crackers, etc. Water from the door.

I don't ask if they are finished anymore, I did for a while, it's counter productive b/c 1) raw milk left on cereal for long is gross, 2) toast left out is stale and chewy, if it's GF forget it and 3) the answer is yeah, I'll eat it later and later never comes. Bottom line, if they leave the table they are probably done, exceptions do apply... relative to age of child.

Eventually they learned to eat it fresh and ready or not at all. I don't think they are harmed into thinking there isn't any food for them to eat when they are hungry. There is plenty in the house that is for sure.

Children will eat when they are hungry. If a child decides at dinner they are not hungry, they sit with us until the adults are finished. If they come back later, I will heat up left over dinner. I will not fix a 2nd meal. If they eat their dinner and are hungry before bedtime, they can have an appropriate snack. This is for my 5 and under children. My 8 yr old is now learning that he will eat dinner at dinner time or not at all, he's old enough in our opinion to eat with the family when the family eats. If he eats dinner that is served and is still hungry, he can have more dinner or if it's later an appropriate snack.

I generally do not have any problems with breakfast b/c they are hungry. I have a 3 yr old who is not a morning eater, she will drink a yogurt if she is hungry and we need to leave the house. If we have an appt to get to, I make sure I'm up and they are eating. I will even wake my dd up a little earlier to make sure she will eat before we need to leave.

I will leave lunch out on the table during the week, if they don't eat it, depending on what it is. If it isn't eaten by dinner, it's dumped. I will say the 3 yr old is more likely to leave her food than the boys (5 and 8). This is a habit of laziness more than an actual decision I've made. After I get lunch together I'm just not up to putting it all away and usually the baby is screaming for his mimis by that point.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Our older child was willing to sit for meals at a young age. Our second was not willing to sit for more than 3-4 minutes. Wasn't a big deal. At 10 and 6, they both enjoy sitting down for a full length meal. (The older one, who always sat well for meals, is slightly overweight and the younger one is very active and fit. Don't know if there could be any relationship -- or if its just the way they are made.)

I work in a large montessori school, in the toddler wing -- some kids sit nicely to eat long lunches, other kids take 2 bites and then go look at books. The expecation is that they will all learn to sit through the whole meal. The reality is that in by preschool, some do and some do not. All of them seem to master it by grade school.

I don't think its at all fair to attribute an inability to sit through a meal to poor parenting, or too-low expectations. Of course everyone can cite their own strategies and experiences, and that is valuable. But when a parent posts that they *can't* make their child sit through a meal (which happens pretty frequently at MDC) it seems self-defeating to continue the struggle.


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

..


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## ZanZansMommy (Nov 8, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaduck* 
Our older child was willing to sit for meals at a young age. Our second was not willing to sit for more than 3-4 minutes. Wasn't a big deal. At 10 and 6, they both enjoy sitting down for a full length meal. (The older one, who always sat well for meals, is slightly overweight and the younger one is very active and fit. Don't know if there could be any relationship -- or if its just the way they are made.)

I work in a large montessori school, in the toddler wing -- some kids sit nicely to eat long lunches, other kids take 2 bites and then go look at books. The expecation is that they will all learn to sit through the whole meal. The reality is that in by preschool, some do and some do not. All of them seem to master it by grade school.

I don't think its at all fair to attribute an inability to sit through a meal to poor parenting, or too-low expectations. Of course everyone can cite their own strategies and experiences, and that is valuable. But when a parent posts that they *can't* make their child sit through a meal (which happens pretty frequently at MDC) it seems self-defeating to continue the struggle.









:

My DS (20 mos) will not sit more about 2-5 min & that's it--he's done being at the table, but not done eating. I have no problem setting his plate onto our small snack table so he can come & go as he sees fit to finish his meal. I don't see how his actions now could possibly dictate what he'll be like when he's 6, 7 or 8. Even my DD (3.5) has a hard time sitting any longer than 15 min. I'm confident that as she gets older she'll be able to sit longer if she so chooses.

I don't agree with whoever posted that it's not possible to get a balanced meal by grazing. Why not? Sure if one grazes on crackers, peanuts, coke, popcorn etc..all day you're probably not hitting all the major food groups. But I graze all day long. It's innate to me.







I have toast, & then 20 min later a protein shake & then maybe eggs or pancakes an hour after that & by then it's only about 10:15. Throughout the day I'll have a piece of chicken, maybe a small salad, a yogurt. I consider this pretty balanced. My children are the same way. They eat fruit all day long & crackers & chicken nuggets & carrots & raisins & whole host of other good & sometimes bad foods. I find that when *dinner time* comes around they're still interested in eating. So grazing doesn't affect their ability to get a balanced *meal* into their bodies. For us, grazing all day works & I feel like I'm honoring my children in letting them decide when they are hungry & when they should eat. We never follow a clock, we follow our instincts. Luckily for us, we are mostly all on the same internal clock.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaduck* 
Our older child was willing to sit for meals at a young age. Our second was not willing to sit for more than 3-4 minutes. Wasn't a big deal. At 10 and 6, they both enjoy sitting down for a full length meal. (The older one, who always sat well for meals, is slightly overweight and the younger one is very active and fit. Don't know if there could be any relationship -- or if its just the way they are made.)

My kids too!!!!! My older DD could always sit through a meal and was a "good eater" and is now chubby. My younger DD was a wild thing as a toddler, is a picky eater, and is slender. Both now enjoy family meals very much (our schedule only allows a few each week, but the kids really look forward to them and treasure the time.)

Also having more than one kid makes me laugh when people talk about what they did and how their child is as if there is a direct correlation. You can do that exact same thing with another child and get a VERY different result!

Quote:

All of them seem to master it by grade school.

I don't think its at all fair to attribute an inability to sit through a meal to poor parenting, or too-low expectations.
I have met school aged kids who don't know how to sit through a meal, but they come from families that never sit down to a meal. I think that having meals and assuming that at some point the child will enjoy them makes a lot of sense. Not having regular meals, on the other, really can lead to kids who just don't get it.


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

Quote:

You can do that exact same thing with another child and get a VERY different result!
that is sooo true!! We used brag what good parents we were b/c DD was not a picky eater. Loves..fish and hates chicken fingers.
Ds taught me that it was not my doing and I have since been humbled..that kid wont touch a piece of fruit wiht a 10 foot pole. and i am lucky to get a veggie in him a couple times a week. Celery at that!


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## Janelovesmax (Feb 17, 2006)

For those moms who said that their tots didn't sit thru the meal for longer then 2-5 minutes, when did that change? My son is a 5-10 minutes sitter and I CAN'T WAIT FOR THAT TO CHANGE!!! I would love to have long family lunches/dinners, I'm all for that idea, but with my son, it's not possible. He is 2.


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## MichaelsSahm (May 11, 2006)

In our home, we eat when we're hungry, we don't eat when we're not.
Recently we went on vacation to visit family, and they were so obsessed with eating at certain times, it made me sick, we're not all the same, we all have different eating habits. I am not the type of person to put a plate out in front of someone and say "eat this it will be the last meal for today" I think that will create bad eating habits.
I put out snacks that don't go bad, and just leave them there for my son to grab. I will fix meals, and if he isn't hungry I will warm it up when he is.


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## BethsMom (May 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kmisje* 
In our home, we eat when we're hungry, we don't eat when we're not.
Recently we went on vacation to visit family, and they were so obsessed with eating at certain times, it made me sick, we're not all the same, we all have different eating habits. I am not the type of person to put a plate out in front of someone and say "eat this it will be the last meal for today" I think that will create bad eating habits.
I put out snacks that don't go bad, and just leave them there for my son to grab. I will fix meals, and if he isn't hungry I will warm it up when he is.

our family is also like this - everybody has meals together but if one person is not hungry, no big deal, they will eat later if they want.. my dd has meals with the family but snacks a lot in between meals - cut up fruit mainly.


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## cottonwood (Nov 20, 2001)

To the OP, that's never been an issue for us, because my kids don't really graze like that. But I guess if it were I'd just 1) not stress about a bowl or two being left out until they're done and 2) if we had to get going, take something along. We actually do that anyway, we live a ways out of town so that when we get out we're often gone for hours, so we need to have backup. Bananas are good for that, nuts, dried fruit...

It's interesting how different people think "healthy" is come by. To me it's a completely alien way of thinking that eating habits must be taught and learned. It just seems obvious to me that healthy eating is innate (unless that's been suppressed) and is about paying attention to your body's cues. I honestly don't see how people whose eating is controlled throughout childhood can maintain an ability to self-regulate.

I also don't understand the need to mandate a time for connecting. Not that sharing mealtimes can't be good, it isn't about that. It just seems weird to me that people can't find a way to get what they need from each other without being made to.


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