# Why Same Sex Marriage is Important and Needed



## Jwebbal (May 31, 2004)

I posted this at the end of a thread, so very few people saw it. I obviously feel very strongly on this issue so I thought I might put it where more people might see it. I really have never seen a valid argument against same sex marriage, and get quite tired of people really not understanding this issue and how it affects people, so I wrote this-

I am deeply offended over and over by the amount of misinformation and ignorance that goes around regarding the equal protection of and rights of same sex couples who wish to obtain legal marriage (not all of which are both gay or lesbian, bisexuals are in there as well, hence gay marriage is not the proper term).

To make this perfectly clear I will use my own family as an example, because too often this debate is esoteric to those in it. Once someone sees how it can affect a family, they might begin to see our collective point!

My partner and I have been together for 12 years now, we have a 9 month old son. We have both worked most of this time, recently we decided I should quit my part time position as a religious educator so our son gets the benefit of full time mothering and we can more closely follow attachment parenting.

In the beginning we took each others name, registered as domestic partners in our state when it became legal in 2000, have had documents drawn up that protect us as best as we are able to manage, have acquired insurance to protect our family in case my partner dies, have drawn up documents to protect my partner as the other parent of our son until her adoption becomes finalized, have instructed our families of our wishes in case one of us dies (as to our son, and our estates), and have tried very hard to make every assurance that we are protected. This has not been easy, NOT AT ALL. Changing our names, which was the simplest, took us years to straighten out with the various entities. I cannot even begin to describe to you how much of a pain it was, until JUST recently we still didn't have every legal document with our correct names on it. The other things were much much more difficult. The legal documents cost us thousands of dollars in legal fees to put together, and we are still not completely protected. It has taken more than 9 months and the adoption is still not finalized, and we are lucky to live in a state where we are able to do it! Domestic partnership registration gets us VERY few of the legal protections afforded in state civil marriage, and none of the federal protections. Some new ones will be added in 2005 in THIS state only, (mind you our domestic partnership protections are ONLY recognized in this state, they are not portable and in fact we have to seriously think about this whenever we travel, taking EVERY single document we have with us in case of emergency), and most of those are actually responsibilities, not benefits or protections. I have no problem with the responsibilities though, we would take it gladly to secure the protections afforded in marriage.

What other things are we missing? Well, like I said, we are lucky to live in this state, as most of the things we are able to do cannot be done in all states. What if we were less well off? What then? A marriage license costs less than $60 in most states, is easily accessed, and portable. And agencies recognize it easily, so even the simple task of changing our names would have been done in less than a few months, not the YEARS it took us! My partner would not have to suffer the legal limbo of a second parent adoption, her name would be on our son's birth certificate from day one. The other things are even more important to me, things like my partners pension and social security. Because I stay home, I make less money over my lifetime, if my partner dies I will not receive her pension or be able to increase my social security by having her's be considered like a heterosexual married couple. If my partner happened to be from another country (like my best friends) there would be no problem for her to obtain immigration status in this country so we can be together (my friend and his partner are currently separated by the stupid laws of this country because they cannot legally marry). Quite literally I am in deep doodoo once retirement time hits and my partner dies before me. We have some insurance for now, but once we get older this type of insurance will be prohibitively expensive. We cannot file joint state or federal taxes, and our financial situation suffers because of it. My partner has to pay federal taxes on my health insurance because it's a domestic partner benefit which they don't recognize. Married couples don't have to do that of course.

Of course legal marriage makes all of these stupid and very scary problems go away, I am constantly amazed at how little legally married couples take these things, they rarely have any idea of the REAL tangible benefits that come with that stupid license. Why should MY family have to suffer? Is my family not worthy of the same protections, benefits and responsibilities afforded other families?

Did you know that if a same sex couple separates and they have children, most of the time they cannot access the family courts to help them separate property and work out child custody issues? That many times a partner in a same sex couple who is not the biological parent (but every bit a real parent) of a child conceived in that relationship can be completely kept out of that child's life? That we CAN be forced to testify against one another in a court of law, things like emails, letters, personal conversations become open in court. Can you imagine what that would do to a couple? That if a partner is killed in an accident that they cannot sue the responsible party for the loss suffered by their partners death? Luckily that has changed in this state recently, but is not the case in other states. I could go on and on about this stuff, people really have no clue, or they take it so lightly, imagine if it were YOUR family, would you take it so lightly? When I was pregnant with our son, I almost had to have an emergency c-section without warning. Our legal documents were at home, and we were quite scared to have it done without having them, as the hospital stated until they had those documents my partner would have no ability to have any say about our son, or me if I became incapacitated. Luckily I was able to avoid the surgery, but what if? My partner was forced to think about whether to go get the documents or be with me. Of course in other states, and other situations even people who have had the documents were ignored. Partners have been kept from seeing their dying partner, or were kept from the funeral, or were not able to arrange for the reading on a tombstone. Others have had their nicely drawn up wills challenged by an angry family, have lost their belongings or home. We are lucky, our families are accepting and we have made it clear to them about our wishes, but the possibility always exists for them to challenge it. The courts are much more understanding of the legal definition of marriage, than they are of documents drawn up that try to duplicate what comes so easily in a marriage certificate.

Common law in many states has legal ramifications, that do not apply to same sex couples. Same sex marriage is NOT the legal wedge that will allow polygamy, that is a false argument. Polygamists are quite able to try their hand at the courts without having same sex marriage be a part of their legal argument. I am sick and tired of being told that my family must suffer because someone is afraid of more than two people marrying. Let each argument stand on its own. I am deserving of equal protection under the law, they let people in prison marry, but not same sex couples? Tell me what kind of sense that is? That tells me that marriage is a civil right, that cannot be taken away simply by becoming a felon, so why isn't it my civil right to marry the consenting adult of my choosing, even if she is another female? Isn't it in the best interests of my family, and the familes of millions of same sex couples?

Yeah sure, some could argue, that I make the choice to stay home, so I suffer the consequences of that decision. But who suffers the consequences of a decision to go back to work full time so that I can be better protected if my partner dies before me? I should think on this board that people wouldn't argue that. It's better for our children that I stay home, it would be even better if we were able to legally marry. I will part by saying that I know several of the couples in the Mass. case (I am Unitarian Universalist, half of the couples in the case were UU), one of which (they are the ones the case is named after) have a daughter. They sought legal marriage because of something their daughter said to them. They were describing their family, and the fact that both her mothers loved each other. The daughter stated that could not really love one another because they weren't married. In this society one of the ways we show our love and committement to our beloveds is by marrying them. Sure we don't need that to show those things, but it is one of the IMPORTANT ways we show OTHERS how much we feel those things in our hearts. Many of the same sex couples who legally married in either Canada, SF or Mass. have said that they were amazed by the outpouring of love and support from their communities and that they felt more responsible because of it. Part of being married is having our communities support that union, so that when we are troubled they can offer us support to that original committment, or if worse comes to worse and the couple decide to part, we hold them to promises they made while together or if something tragic happens the family is still protected. These are important things. Things I want for my family.

JoAnne, partner to Mary, mothers to Ryan


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## woobysma (Apr 20, 2004)

JoAnne - That was an excellent post. I hope everyone will take the time to read it and take your words to heart. I sincerely hope that sometime soon, you are able to wear the title of "wife" with pride and enjoy all the security that so many of us take for granted.


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## HoneymoonBaby (Mar 31, 2004)

neveermind. that was a bad idea.


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## alliwenk (Nov 6, 2003)

Yes, JoAnne, a wonderful post. Of all the conservative issues being thrown around in the media, this is the one that I just can't wrap my brain around; I just can not understand the vehemence against same-sex marraige.

Allison


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)




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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Thank you very much for starting a new thread for that excellent post.

Kay


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## littleaugustbaby (Jun 27, 2003)

Excellent post!


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## PM (Nov 19, 2001)

bump


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## Aura_Kitten (Aug 13, 2002)

JoAnne, do you mind if i post that in my LJ for others to read?


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)




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## loving-my-babies (Apr 2, 2004)

wow, I must say, being a conservative person myself, I applaud you for fighting for YOUR RIGHTS to be happy. as a christian, it sometimes is contradicting with my beliefs. but when this happens, I try to remember that God asks us not to judge, and he also gives us personal experiences (I have a VERY conservative family, and about a year ago my brother told us he was gay, now I completely support him and whatever he chooses to do, because I overcame the ignorance of thinking he "chose" to be gay)
I hope many more gay couples get the chance to achieve so much, although I am sorry you had to go through all that.







's to you.


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## owensmom (Feb 23, 2002)

That is fantastic and I agree wholeheartedly with you. Your insight helps me to argue more clearly for "gay" marriage.







to you and your family!


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## azyre (Oct 10, 2003)

Great post, I whole heartedly agree and hope it happens! I'll be honest and say I have little comprehension why it is a bad idea at all - seems like a no brainer to me - if you don't approve of a same sex marriage, don't have one yourself, seems easy enough.


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## Aura_Kitten (Aug 13, 2002)

but Leah, you're forgetting, if the government doesn't legislate morality, the world will degrade into chaos! people marrying goats! cats and dogs, living together!


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## Jwebbal (May 31, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loving-my-babies*
... being a conservative person myself, I applaud you for fighting for YOUR RIGHTS to be happy. as a christian, it sometimes is contradicting with my beliefs.

See this is the thing I am unclear about with people whose beliefs, religious or otherwise, do not agree with homosexuality. It's one thing to be against it, it's quite another to believe that your beliefs should be trumped over others. So some people disagree with it (not you personally, speaking in general terms here), does that mean that their way should be the only way in this country? I so don't get that? Funny how some people will go on and on about how same sex marriage is going to destroy marriage as we know it, or the family, etc, but they don't spend the same amount of energy going on about divorce. Why not have an amendment to the constitution outlawing divorce if people are so worried about families and marriage? Not that I am advocating that mind you!

Klothos, no problem, though I am not sure what that little thing means, mailbox? Webpage? Whatever, I am fine with it as long as I am credited properly.


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## Aura_Kitten (Aug 13, 2002)

sorry ~ i meant my LiveJournal ~ my blog.









i always give credit where credit is due.


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## mama ganoush (Jul 8, 2004)

jwebbal-her post was actually quite supportive, even if, with her conservative upbringing, it makes her a little uncomfortable on a personal level.


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## green betty (Jun 13, 2004)

I'm going to take this opportunity to recommend a great book--What Is Marriage For? by EJ Graff. It gives a historical overview of the institution of marriage and how it has changed--continually!--over time. It's hard to read and NOT come to the conclusion that of course, gay marriage should be legal... and it's terrific for gems to rebut conservative arguments.

It's published by Beacon Press (the UU press, big surprise.)


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## Jwebbal (May 31, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama ganoush*
jwebbal-her post was actually quite supportive, even if, with her conservative upbringing, it makes her a little uncomfortable on a personal level.

Oh YES, of course, I am sorry I didn't say that. I am happy she is supportive. I was just thinking out loud about how others (not necessarily her) feel about this issue and how I don't understand.

UUelisabeth, I own that book! Still havn't managed to read the entire thing, but it is an interesting read.


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## holiday (Jul 10, 2004)

I agree wholeheartedly and for exactly the reasons you stated. My heart breaks for the couples who run into legal problems with children and death of a spouse. I'm a mother myself, and I feel your pain!

People need to get off their high horse. No one is asking anyone's permission if it's okay to be gay, they just want civil rights...it is the year 2004 and we do live in the U.S.A.


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## DebraBaker (Jan 9, 2002)

Whether you agree with same sex marriage or not it is justified by the concept of equal protection under the law.

Married gays isn't going to impact a hetero marriage.

Anyway if we were so good at being married and are so intent upon "protecting" marriage why do half of hetero marriages end in divorice?

Debra Baker


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

JoAnne,







wonderful post and I truly don't understand how anyone could argue with it!


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## pugmadmama (Dec 11, 2003)

Fantastic post! Thank you for writing all that out and sharing it with us.


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## polka123 (Nov 27, 2003)

*ALL* couples deserve the right to marry legally.


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## Alkenny (May 4, 2004)

Great post!


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## Parthenia (Dec 12, 2001)

Great Post, yeah!
I've watched friends and co-workers go through the same trials and headaches. Just before same sex marriage was legalized here I spent an hour on the phone trying to explain this to my mom, who is socially liberal and religiously conservative. And I think she got it! Us married hets really take for granted how easy the "paperwork" really is for us.

I think same sex marriage will become legal in all states eventually. 50 years ago, dh and I would have been barred from marrying because I'm black and he's white. While there are some people who still think it's not proper, it's hard to conceive bi-racial marriages being illegal. Hopefully our kids will have a hard time conceiving same sex marriage being illegal.


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

[


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## JessicaS (Nov 18, 2001)




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## spooky mom (Jul 3, 2004)

I am definitely in support of same sex marriages, even though I'm not currently in a same-sex relationship.

Very far in the future- I don't want my daughter (or anyone else, of course) to ever lose her rights depending on what's in her partner's pants. That is none of the governments business.

I'm hoping that someday we'll just be able to register 'household' status or something like that, so that friends, roomates, siblings, etc. who aren't romantically involved but live together and pool their resources would get all of the same benefits married people currently do.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

T

Quote:

I'm hoping that someday we'll just be able to register 'household' status or something like that, so that friends, roomates, siblings, etc. who aren't romantically involved but live together and pool their resources would get all of the same benefits married people currently do.
I don't think it makes financial sense for most people (unless they are actually sharing a budget & other concerns) to want to have "married" tax status. You have to add your incomes together, so people making less get taxed at a significantly higher rate. There are many other benifits, but I don't see it making sense to spread the "marraige benifts/penalties" to unmarried people. IMO, that is one big reason to have equal marraige benifits to *all* adults--- if you want the benifits, you get married. If you don't want to get married, you don't get the benifits.


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## spooky mom (Jul 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TiredX2*







T
I don't think it makes financial sense for most people (unless they are actually sharing a budget & other concerns) to want to have "married" tax status. You have to add your incomes together, so people making less get taxed at a significantly higher rate. There are many other benifits, but I don't see it making sense to spread the "marraige benifts/penalties" to unmarried people. IMO, that is one big reason to have equal marraige benifits to *all* adults--- if you want the benifits, you get married. If you don't want to get married, you don't get the benifits.

I'm not saying that we should force everyone who lives with someone to claim some sort of partnership, just that there should be an _option_ for those who do pool resources. I think some sort of "household" or "partner" status should be all there is, legally.
Marriage is really none of the government's business.

I think we should seperate a spiritual, personal, and sometimes religious event from legal status. I don't think we should be expected to report it to the government when we fall in love.


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

[


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:

I'm not saying that we should force everyone who lives with someone to claim some sort of partnership, just that there should be an option for those who do pool resources. I think some sort of "household" or "partner" status should be all there is, legally.
Marriage is really none of the government's business.
I have no issue w/a partner relationship not including romance/sex, but I would expect people who want those benifits to be in a committed relationship and just go ahead and get married/a civil union.


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## spooky mom (Jul 3, 2004)

I'm sorry if I offended you, especially if that offense causes you to feel threatened and pits you against such an important issue.
Believe me, I am no threat. I'm not going into politics any time soon, nor do I know of any politicians who share my views. I was just rambling off topic a bit due to sleepiness.









I've been hearing the same arguments a lot lately, and I don't get it.
I don't see why anyone would need the government to validate their relationship at all (though I can definitely see the need for the rights and privileges that are currently _only_ awarded with that validation), let alone why anyone would feel that one group's validation is more important than equality for everyone.
How is such validation anything but meaningless if it comes from an unfair institution?
A legal status awarded by a just government would mean more.

My apologies to the original poster as well. I'll try to stop derailing the thread now. :ignore


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

\kl


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## green betty (Jun 13, 2004)

Well, I have to say that I agree with Spooky Mom. I don't think it's the step that our society is ready for yet, but I hope that at some point in the future we will progress to a system where people can enter a legal family arrangement (be it couple marriage, polyamorous marriage, or other long-term committment) that carries the same legal benefits and protections that only het couples are eligible for now. I don't believe it is the role of the government to dictate the morality of what two people can get married, and similarly I don't believe that the government should be in the role of passing judgement on any small group of people who wish to enter a long-term family arrangement. "Marriage" means many different things to many different people--and I think that non-governmental ceremonies of meaning, religious or otherwise, are the right places to define that. And just as gay marriage doesn't take anything away from the meaning of my monogamous het marriage, neither does allowing a wider variety of family arrangements.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

This is







T

Perhaps I am misunderstanding what spooky is suggesting? Would it require a further commitment than just filing taxes. If so, I'm for it--- it if is a "real" committed relationship, sharing finances (and lives) between adults. But, I guess that's what I consider marraige to be


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## green betty (Jun 13, 2004)

Sorry, this'll be my last OT post. But when I talk about this long-term family committment, my work-in-progress vision is that involves shared living quarters, combined finances, and shared child responsibilities if there are children. Arrangements beyond that (like who has sex with who) I consider personal and not the business of government. So I guess I'd disagree with Spooky that roommates would be eligible; however perhaps siblings or other already-related people could be if that's how they chose to live their adult lives.


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## Meiri (Aug 31, 2002)

May I save your post to share with my mom? I think you explained this so much better than I ever could, since I'm able to take for granted the protections that come with marriage. Even before DH and I got that little piece of paper from the state, 16 years into the marriage, our marriage was recognized.

Marriage was a legal institution, an arrangement between families, from the start. Religion had nothing to do with it and did nothing with it until the Middle Ages. Religion should have nothing to do with it again, except in so far as the individual couples wish to ADD that into their understanding of what marriage is.


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## green betty (Jun 13, 2004)

Thanks! Share away. I consider all my posts to be public statements, since anyone could get on here and read them anyway (although I certainly have my fingers crossed that a few select members of my family do NOT!)


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

I'd love to continue this conversation about what constities a "family" on another thread if anyone else would like to


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## Meiri (Aug 31, 2002)

Oops, Thank-you UUElisabeth. Actually I was asking the original poster.

OTOH, that's good to know about your posts too.







I feel the same way, though I also want my thoughts credited to me.

A thought I had on this issue awhile back: since the UU church does beleive in same sex marriage, don't the current restrictions against it constitute a law "regarding the practice of religion....etc the rest of the First Amendment religion clause"???

If not, why not?


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## Jwebbal (May 31, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *my~hearts~light*
I have not problem with the way things are now (other than how lightly divorce is taken) but I am willing to listen and learn why it is important to the gay community. It's not up to me nor you but educating people on why it's needed will help the case for it. Bringing issues like ending legal marriage into the grand scheme IMO will alienate more people than it will convince.

I don't understand how someone could see how unjust this is to a segment of society and then say they don't have a problem with the way things are right now? Is it because it doesn't affect you? Aren't you just a tiny bit concerned that this affects so many others, others who obviously need the same things you hold so dear? It is up to US, to you, to me, to everyone to do something about this, to speak out, to make it clear to others who don't yet understand. I personally am not out to end legal marriage, personally I am hoping that we can change the institution to be broader and to protect all families who choose to use it.

Oh, and Meiri, no problem, just give me credit, thanks everyone who liked my post, I hope it helped some people to understand a little how not being able to legally marry hurts our families.

JoAnne


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## Meiri (Aug 31, 2002)

Thank-you. It would be in private conversation with her. She listens, she loves, but this is a big concept for her, a big change in mindset. I think if she sees how this hurts real people in the real world and their children...


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

[\


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## Joyce in the mts. (Jan 12, 2003)

May I try to help?

It is important to everyone because everyone deserves to enjoy marriage...it's a joyful sharing of lives as one, looking toward a future together till death and beyond depending upon one's beliefs.

My dh and I are Pagan clergy. We also teach philosophy, and we taught a group of high schoolers years ago. They were great and we still keep some contact with all of them. Some live nearby, and some have moved. All are good folks and succeeding in happy lives.

One of these kids, J., was really searching. He was dabbling in Wicca, and I was concerned that he didn't have a good, safe foundation from which to come to that path, in awareness. So we offered the class and invited the kids.

J. was dating girls at the time, was still searching within about his sexuality, and wondering about himself as kids do in each their own way around that and other aspects. He diaried his explorations and his hetero *******, tobacco-chewing/spitting cousin (it's a VERY small town, folks, so this was HUGE), stole his journal, and Xeroxed it...passed copies of it around to the "guys" who were calling J. "***" at school. They amused themselves at J.'s expense, using his private writings and deep explorations for their entertainment. He was crushed and yet, he rose above. (I was SO proud of how J dealt with it and rose above it)

Later, the following summer, he came by one day, and "came out" to us; crying out of relief and hugging followed. My husband, my kids, and I were as supportive as possible. J. is a great guy, my boys "brothered" him, my daughter "sistered" him, and we were all just loving him. His own family outed him, and treated him like sh*t- sorry for the profanity, but that is the best way to describe it.

I could/can not for the life of me figure out how people could treat their own this way.

But he prevailed, graduated HS, went to college till he ran out of money. And then he came home, got a job in a plant nursery and garden center, and moved out of his parents' house to closer to his work. He found a community of support where he moved to. Wiccans welcomed him in, and he flourished beautifully (AND...he had a firm foundation from which to come to Wicca in a good way).

A while later, he met a guy and they were on again/off again for a bit, found their way together and the relationship strengthened and deepened and stablized nicely. They grew in love together over a few years.

One day a couple years ago, I got a call asking me if we would "marry" them. I was so honored as was dh. There were others who could do this for them, but he came back to us...wow. (my eyes are welling up...)

We did a handfasting which is an ancient form of life-joining/wedding. Both partners' families were represented there to some extent, and there were alot of friends there too.

I managed not to cry while we were officiating the ceremony. The guys meant every word of their vows just as much as I did when I wed. While it is not "legal", they couple did receive domestic partnership benefits through J's spouse's work, which I was surprised about.

I know that this is not possible everywhere. NY, where I am, also apparently has some sort of a domestic partnership law though that helps. I don't know the specifics of it though, but know it is NOT legal gay marriage.

From what I have seen, it'd be nice if it was uniform across the board in all states so that gay couples could count on it automatically when they "marry". They are not merely two gay guys, J and his spouse, living together in partnership, though.

They are truly spouses, and feel married even if the law does not see them that way, but it would be nice for them to not have to overcome the chasm created by our culture and the law, to simply be guaranteed equal protection as a legally married couple, like I am married to my dh and therefore have certain rights as a spouse. For them to be legally married strengthens the institution of marriage in my opinion. For deeply committed individuals to join hearts, lives and fortunes, and create families, is all to the good of every American, and every humanbeing.

I hope this makes it a bit more real for you. You may think you know no gays, but really, you may know someone preserving their dignity by not coming out.

I wish you well and hope that something I have shared helps.

All this said, I don't have the perfect grasp of gay folks, their needs and feelings and don't presume a thing. I just understand some about some people's paths, a few in particular and as clergy, I respect the human need for sharing one's life with another for life...as a married person, I know I take for granted all the privileges of marriage by law...I never think about it. But...I believe that all those seeking marriage should have access legally to the benefits, if they are going to take on the responsibilities that many heteros don't take seriously at all. And I believe that divorce is too easy, but still, if gays or heteros need truly to part ways from a marriage and only they know if they have tried to reconcile and so on, they should have access to divorce also. There are times when issues are truly irreconcilable and could not have been foreseen, so while I am not advocating divorce, I am advocating equal access to all aspects of marriage law.

But really, I know little; just what I have seen and been involved with myself.

Respectfully,
Joyce in the mts.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

uuelisabeth, that was a beautiful post and I agree with everything you said.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Thank you for sharing that Joyce.


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## mtnsunshinemama (Sep 21, 2004)

Great posts OP and Joyce, it just makes me cry to realize this kind of bigotry exists under the auspices of religion. Here are

100 of the rights, responsibilities and protections that will be denied to same-sex couples and their families under Oregon new state law.

1. No automatic right to make health care decisions for partner
2. No automatic right to visit partner in the hospital
3. No right to sue for wrongful death if partner negligently killed
4. No right to consent or refuse consent to an autopsy of partner's body
5. No vested right to be buried in cemetery plot with partner
6. No automatic right to inherit cemetery plot
7. No automatic right to make arrangements for funeral or dispose of deceased partner's body
8. No right to donate partner's body or organs after death
9. No automatic right to inherit deceased partner's estate
10. A prior will is not automatically revoked when entering a new relationship
11. A prior will is not automatically revoked when the relationship ends
12. No right to be notified in a public notice before partner's will is destroyed by an attorney
13. No preference to be appointed personal representative of deceased partner's estate
14. No right to continue to live in the deceased partner's home for one year after partner's death
15. No automatic right to notice in matters involving deceased partner's estate
16. No right to support from deceased partner's estate 17. No right to demand one-quarter share of partner's estate if will leaves less than that
18. No automatic right to notice that a conservatorship or guardianship is being filed against partner unless currently living together
19. May not get highest preference by court to be appointed as guardian or conservator for incapacitated partner
20. No right to private visits in long-term care facility
21. No right to share a room in long-term care facility
22. No right to file joint tax returns
23. No right to name partner as health care decision-maker when partner is serving as physician
24. No right to rollover IRA upon partner's death and continue tax deferral
25. Surviving partner may have to pay inheritance tax when first partner dies
26. No automatic right to receive deceased partner's unpaid state salary and other moneys due
27. No right to maintain deceased veteran's property tax exemption
28. No right to claim senior or disabled property tax deferral when property is jointly owned but only one partner qualifies
29. No right to continue deferral of previous taxes deferred by deceased partner even though surviving partner is currently eligible for deferral
30. No protection against impoverishment if disabled partner needs Medicaid benefits for long-term care
31. Cannot transfer residence or other assets to partner without causing the disabled partner to become ineligible for Medicaid
32. When partner who received Medicaid dies, the state can recover the amount paid against the estate of the deceased partner even while the surviving partner is still alive
33. No right to require suppliers to repurchase deceased retailer's inventory
34. Partner of retailer has no cause of action against non-paying suppliers on cancellation of a retailer agreement
35. Not automatically an "authorized driver" on partner's rental car
36. No absolute right to transfer a franchise or dealership to partner
37. No right to be a designated successor in deceased partner's retail dealership
38. No right to partner's Oregon Medical Insurance Pool coverage
39. No automotive personal injury protection benefits for partner
40. No right to coverage under partner's health benefit plan
41. No automatic right to obtain life insurance on partner
42. No uninsured motorist insurance coverage for partner
43. No right to spousal cash surrender valuation of term life insurance on partner
44. No right to coverage under deceased partner's group health insurance plan.
45. No protection for partner's home in bankruptcy
46. Private conversations with partner are not protected in court
47. Conversations with a marriage counselor are not protected in court
48. No automatic education on fetal alcohol syndrome 49. No court-ordered counseling upon divorce
50. No court-ordered life insurance upon divorce
51. Partner not responsible for family expenses
52. No automatic paternity for children
53. Must testify against partner in a court case
54. Must surrender home to satisfy lien for partner's unpaid medical treatment in long-term care facility
55. No right to sue long-term care facility that fails to discharge lien in a timely manner once overdue charges for partner are paid
56. No right to avoid court appointment of a property manager during foreclosure of partner's home
57. No right to maintain a dwelling on EFU (exclusive farm use) property even if occupied by farm operator's partner
58. No right to maintain a dwelling in a farm or forest zone even if lawfully created or acquired by the owner's partner
59. No right as a partner to a landowner to obtain a "landowner preference tag" for hunting from the Fish & Wildlife Commission
60. No right to examine or get copy of autopsy report of deceased partner
61. No right to receive personal effects from deceased partner's body
62. No access to partner's death record
63. No automatic right of survivorship for jointly owned real property
64. No right to sell property qualified for farm use assessment to partner without disqualification
65. No right to loss of support payments from the state crime victims' compensation fund if partner killed in a crime
66. No right to family therapy from state crime victims' compensation fund in case of child sexual abuse
67. No right to crisis counseling through state crime victims' compensation fund if partner is a victim of international terrorism
68. No right to exclude capital gain on principal residence based on partner's ownership
69. Must pay taxes on employer health insurance benefits for partner
70. No right to deduct partner's medical expenses on income tax return
71. No right to receive deceased partner's wages
72. No right to deceased partner's wage claim against non-paying employer
73. No right to work on partner's farm for less than minimum wage
74. No eligibility for scholarship if partner is disabled or killed on the job
75. No right to sue for partner's death that was a result of an unsafe workplace
76. No right to workers' compensation benefits if partner disabled or killed on the job
77. No right to opt out of workers' compensation insurance as a family business
78. No right to sue non-employer for negligently killing partner on the job
79. No right to continue workers' compensation benefits until remarriage if partner is killed or disabled on the job
80. Required to comply with childcare facility regulations when caring only for partner's children
81. No automatic right to special retirement benefit after death of partner who was a police officer or a firefighter
82. No right as unmarried couple with children to be treated as married for workers' compensation rights and benefits
83. No automatic right to partner's group insurance provided by public retirement system.
84. No right to opt out of unemployment insurance as a family business
85. No right to receive deceased partner's unemployment benefits
86. Required to comply with farm labor contractor regulations when working only with partner
87. Subjected to employment discrimination laws when hiring partner in family business
88. Employer can refuse to hire or discharge employee because it employs or has employed partner
89. No protection through emergency court orders in case of divorce
90. No tax exemption for dividing property upon divorce
91. No dividing retirement plans upon divorce
92. No automatic right to receive partner's judicial retirement pension
93. No automatic right to make retirement selection from deceased partner's public employee retirement benefit
94. No automatic right to partner's pre-Medicare insurance benefit provided by public retirement system
95. No automatic right to partner's Medicare supplemental insurance paid for by public retirement system
96. No automatic right to approve partner's public employee retirement choices
97. No automatic right to special pre-retirement public employee retirement benefit after death of partner who was a judge
98. No right for partner of disabled or killed public safety officer to Public Safety Memorial Fund benefits 99. No automatic right to receive partner's public employment benefits
100. No right to retired partner's health insurance offered by local government employers

Pretty sad!


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## Thomi'sMommy (Feb 11, 2004)

Very good stuff, ladies. Very important.

How do I find out what the particular laws and legislation in my state are?

I was so scared by ELEVEN more states passing the gay marriage ban amendment, that I feel as though I ought to be informed and active.


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## boatbaby (Aug 30, 2004)

I've only just skimmed this whole thread... baby needs me.
But I just want to say that real love and commitment between two people is so rare and hard to come by these days. We should not discourage it in any way, shape, or form. Loving each other is the most honorable, brave, and admirable thing any two people can do. I hope one day everyone has the rights and support that they deserve with that.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

and a reminder for those that may want to debate, debating the validity or acceptablilty of queerness is against the user rules now!


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## Jwebbal (May 31, 2004)

All of those things listed are things that just about any same sex couple are denied in most states. Only those progressive states that have same sex marriage (Mass), civil unions (Vermont) or domestic partnerships (Calif) have any sort of protections for same sex couples. The federal benefits of marriage are denied to all same sex couples. And boy are those many, and very important as well. I surely hope that before our son becomes an adult, my partner and I's long term, committed relationship is recognized by our govt like it does a quickie wedding in vegas of a couple who just met. Or as the marriage of a felon in prison and his pen pal bride. Can you tell I am bit bitter? LOL, actually its really not funny.

blessings,
JoAnne, partner to Mary for 12 years, mothers to Ryan for one!


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## mamadawg (Jun 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jwebbal*
All of those things listed are things that just about any same sex couple are denied in most states. Only those progressive states that have same sex marriage (Mass), civil unions (Vermont) or domestic partnerships (Calif) have any sort of protections for same sex couples. The federal benefits of marriage are denied to all same sex couples. And boy are those many, and very important as well. I surely hope that before our son becomes an adult, my partner and I's long term, committed relationship is recognized by our govt like it does a quickie wedding in vegas of a couple who just met. Or as the marriage of a felon in prison and his pen pal bride. Can you tell I am bit bitter? LOL, actually its really not funny.

blessings,
JoAnne, partner to Mary for 12 years, mothers to Ryan for one!









, JoAnne. I just saw this thread for the first time. You have every right to be bitter.

I can't believe my state (Oregon) is one of the 11 that just passed an anti-gay marriage constitutional amendment. My hopes is that the courts will throw it out eventually.


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## iris0110 (Aug 26, 2003)

I just wanted to throw in my support. Your post was so well spoken. I am not gay, but I will always be a fighter for gay rights. I don't believe that the government should dictate our morality. I will continue to join with grass roots efforts to protect the rights of women, gays, and other oppressed groups. My fathe is adamantly anti-gay. He says that allowing gays to marry is encourages people to be gay.







Unfortunately no amount of explaining things to him will show him how ignorant he is. He is a close minded conservative Christian. He also believes that religion should be dictated by the government (as long as that religion is Christian, but not catholic.














Any way that was pretty off topic. I just wanted to let you know that there are alot of us American's out here who support you, whether we are gay/straight/bi, doesn't matter.


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## whimsy (Aug 6, 2004)

Thank you for the OP. Sometimes it is hard to really "see" an issue until you "see" the people it affects.

I come from an incredibly conservative Christian background so it is very interesting to me to see the other side.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Thank you for this post.

I can't understand how people can deny people the right to marry the person they love.


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## Pynki (Aug 19, 2002)

You know for me.. I'd be more understanding of the stodgy uptight middleclass white men in congress going on and on about the sanctity of marraige and how it must be protected from the "EEEEEEVILLL" homosexual agenda if they weren't all screwing around on their lovely wives back home..

Gay marraige should ABSOLUTELY be legal, and any change to the constitutin banning it is UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!!

Warm Squishy Feelings..

Dyan


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## Jennifer3141 (Mar 7, 2004)

Kudos to the OP for that fabulous post!

Jen


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## Calm (Sep 17, 2004)

Hi JoAnne. I am just here to say that I fight your fight whenever I can. I am a woman married to a man, but we have gay friends and we don't even see them as "gay" or "queer" until those off moment times when someone new brings it up. I will never understand why you can't marry the one you love, never. If it helps to know, my husband and I have enlightened many people about your situation (ones like yours) and we will continue to open people's eyes until no one is left blind.

Beautiful post, JoAnne, even though it made me cry.


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## LiamnEmma (Nov 20, 2001)

You go Joanne! Keep fighting the fight, and I'll fight along with you! My dh will too! I'll always vote and argue in favor of your rights as a human being, a parent and a loving spouse!


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## pilesoflaundry (Dec 9, 2003)

JoAnne, I'm sorry you and your partner had to go through all that while my dh and I and other heterosexual couples didn't. It doesn't seem quite fair







. Hopefully the tide changes soon.







s


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## rainbowmoon (Oct 17, 2003)

this just makes me sick what I read about the OR law..

Joanne you have every right to be bitter.


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## calpurnia (Sep 26, 2004)

My DP & I have been burning a candle for several days now. At first it was our "pray Kerry wins" candle. Then it became our "the world needs prayers" candle. Tonight it is in memory for a man called David Morley who was killed on Sunday in what is suspected to be a homophobic attack. He had previously survived a nailbomb attack on Soho, a gay area in London, which killed 3 & injured more than 70 in 1999. A vigil is being held tonight.

We're fighting against injustice & hatred as hard as we can.

Cal xx


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## A&L+1 (Dec 12, 2003)

I read this post yesterday and it has taken me this long to clear my emotions enough to write. Thank you, JoAnne for putting this into words.

I have lived in and loved three states; Michigan, Oregon and California. I am so thankful that we are currently in California where it is possible for my daughter to have a least some of the legal structure necessary to protect our family. We won't be leaving now. I won't be moving my family back to Michigan now. I hate to feel this fearful closed-in sense of isolation and I detest the impact that this will have on my daughter. She deserves better. We all do.


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