# Opinion: Would you eat this? (My WIC diet.)



## UrbanSimplicity (Oct 26, 2005)

My dd is 3.5 months and I've been receiving WIC coupons but have mixed feelings about the food. On one hand, though we are nowhere near starving, they do help with our grocery expense....but the food is of such poor quality! I am by no means a health food fanatic--I have a pizza once a week and love my chocolate chip cookies.







But I eat whole foods nearly all the time, and organic when I can afford it.

My biggest concern is the 4 cans of tuna and the mercury content while I'm bfing. And the milk/eggs/cheese from unhealthy farms. SEVEN GALLONS of milk per month! (I've been planning on making yogurt but still havent gotten around to it.) DH and I have actually found people outside the store to give our milk away to!

Am I just being a snob?

We also get Skippy peanut butter ( I would prefer organic Almond butter.)

Frozen concentrated juice. (not organic, but at least I can choose the brand with no added sugar or preservatives. Less informed mamas might not realize the difference.)

Regular carrots. Regular beans.

The most frustrating thing is the cereal we are allowed: basically, any rice, corn, oat or wheat cereal. (rice crispies, cheerios, etc.) I was happy initially since (I thought) I could get Old Fashioned Quaker Oats. Not organic, but a nice simple whole food. Ingredient: 100% rolled oats. When I got to checkout it turns out that type is not allowed--I have to get the box with individual packets inside called "Regular Flavor". What, you may wonder is Regular FLAVOR? Well, it's got a bunch of salt, coloring and factory-produced vitamins. AND--get this--it cost 4.39 as opposed to 2.59 for the SAME AMOUNT!!

It's so sad that this is how our government provides mamas in need with nutrition. And, I'm due for a visit at the WIC office. Last time I was there, dd was just a few weeks old and though they were happily surprized I was exclusively bfing, the woman told me that when I came in at the 3 month appt. they'd give me coupons for formula too. But I guess thats another story....

Anyway, how do you all feel about this? I'd love to hear from other mamas on WIC----I really hope I'm not offending anyone who depends on this food. I admit, I am not in a dire situation, in which case I would embrace this food more readily. But I feel we all would benefit from some healthier options. I dont expect the gov't to provide us with organic foods (wouldn't that be wonderful!) but mercury free tuna and whole oats instead of packages with additives would be a step in the right direction.

The food does help us, but in the long run, does it really.........?


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## BookGoddess (Nov 6, 2005)

I don't think you're being a snob. I'm not on WIC but I've dealt with WIC through my job. There should more whole food options, more vegetable/fruit and whole grain options. We know from current research that those are all components of a healthy diet. WIC does a good thing but I've often wondered why our government doesn't revise these outdated WIC food selections. We have such a diverse group of people in America today. Not everyone eats peanut butter or drinks that much milk. It would be good to see more "ethnic" type food choices as well.

Seven gallons of milk? Wow! There's no way my family of three could put away that much milk and that's with two adults who drink milk on a regular basis.


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## hookahgirl (May 22, 2005)

*


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## mamapixie (May 30, 2002)

Are you sure you can't get regular oatmeal? I'd double check about that, ask at WIC, because sometimes cashiers are just really dumb about stuff like that.


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## Herausgeber (Apr 29, 2006)

As a now-grown-up WIC baby, my mom ate all that tuna and milk, and so did I. I turned out just fine. It's light years better than eating cheap junk food all the time, if that's the alternative. If you need the program to feed your family, use it.

But I admit, organics are luxury to me, chosen mainly for taste when I find that it's superior, or if a particular product's growing practices are sketchy. If I lost my job tomorrow, the organic stuff would be the first to go. And I *rarely* shop at Whole Foods, which is grossly overpriced. Their profit margins are the stuff that most grocery retailers dream of. That money isn't making its way back to the farmers, I assure you.

Also, this is interesting:

http://www.fns.usda.gov/wic/benefits...ggenfaqs.HTM#2


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## amcal (Jan 13, 2003)

I don't know how to say this without comming across terribly and I really don't mean to be rude but, it struck me as interesting that you say you don't really need WIC but it's nice to have the help with groceries. But then you complain about the foods you're allowed to have - for example, tuna, regular carrots, regular beans and milk. There is nothing wrong with these foods and for many, many people these things are luxuries. It would be nice if the government would provide us all with organic, free range, whole foods but most of us can barely afford these things ourselves let alone expecting the government to foot the bill.

I know this sound horrible, but if you don't really need WIC, why are you getting it? If you don't like the food and don't think it meets your dietary standards, why continue to get it?

I'm sure there are many, many people out there who would desperately love to have your beans, carrots, tuna and milk.

JMHO.


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## Snowdrift (Oct 15, 2005)

I give four or five of my seven gallons of milk to the WAHM who has an in-home daycare next door to my MIL. The peanut butter I use, and just started getting no-sugar-added fruit spread to go with it, since the pb is artificially sweetened. DH eats at least half the tuna, since I eat mainstream tuna but try to keep it down to one every two weeks. I can get 100% juice blends ratehr than frozen concentrate--I get seltzer cheap and use the juice as a flavoring. I used to have an enormous pepsi habit and this is my replacement for it. Still sugary, but at least not high-fructose corn syrup, and I don't use as much. The oatmeal thing annoys me too. I let DH choose the cold cereals from the list and he eats them.


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

The government thinks the food it is offering is good, they just want to keep people alive, not necessarily at their very best.
I have been through times of less and I am not sure all the choices that WIC offers but here are some ideas:

Maybe have a organic container garden on a patio (since you live in NYC)
Bake your own breads
We prayed for God to noursih our bodies before we ate with the foods we had (and still do)
Make kefir and yogurt from milk
Checkout Nourishing Traditions-there are ways to prepare foods (soaking grains ect) that greatly increase the nutritional content.
Dry beans and whole oats are pretty cheap if you must buy them yourself.
I would still eat the commercial eggs even though they aren't the very best they are a good food for mamas.
I don't know much about NYC living, but maybe you could find a local source/farm to buy from.
I ate A LOT of tuna in my college days (almost everyday!)...If you are worried about mercury, just cut back on it.

I think as long as you focus on _whole, homemade foods_ your bodies should do pretty well and keep the cost low.
Congrats on your new baby,
Jennifer


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## babibelli (Jun 4, 2002)

I was on WIC when we lived in Wa. You CAN buy organic milk on WIC. (you can't buy organic eggs though) Instead of peanut butter, you can buy 1 lb of dried beans. We bought a TON of beans: black beans, split peas, kidneys-
and made good use of them. You can buy natural peanut butter on WIC-just not the organic type.The cheese and eggs were great too-for breakfasts and quiche dinners. WIC programs also offer coupns you can use at the farmers market, which we bought fresh organic fruits and veggies with. Healthier juice choices would be orange and v-8 (the more pulp, the healthier)We no longer use WIC, but I was thankful for the coupons when we needed it. (my husband had been laid off from his job at the time) We also had fruit trees and a veggie garden in our backyard.


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## mamajessica (Sep 15, 2004)

I feel your WIC pain mama. We certainly qualify here, but I didn't renew this month. I feel too crappy about the program as a whole. I am happy that there is a program to help feed low income families, but the problem is that it is bascially lobbied food. All these name brand cereals with the nutrients stripped from them in processing, artificially created nutrients added, then preserved with a chemical. Non organic, homogenized, pasturized milk courtesy of the dairy council, barely a food any more. Here we can get a pretty good quality cheese and I always get the beans, then soak and sprout them. Some of the bean have been mistreated and won't sprout. It is a bad sign when that happens. That's just my start. I really want there to be better options for families. And there are, starting with food banks which often carry produce and oats!
Rant about THE MAN done for now







:

eta: WA has one of the best WIC programs out there.


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## BBerryBliss (Sep 20, 2004)

It depends on t estate which you are in whether you can buy organic milk or not. Thankfully in WA you can.


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

Hmm. I can sort of see your point, but then, I'm not even low-income, but don't buy organics all the time. I can't afford it! And I'm trying to find a way to say this gently, but it's not really possible, so here goes - I really don't see that I should pay tax in order for other people to afford what I cannot feed my own family.

I'm sure that a lot of people would prefer organic almond butter, but that's just not what most people can afford. I'm sure that the majority of people like me also don't buy organic frozen orange juice, just the regular kind, even if they are informed and know that organic is better. And when we did eat fish, we couldnt afford the expensive tuna, so we just limited it. I don't think it is remotely reasonable to expect the government (ie taxpayers) to fund you eating mercury-free tuna. Or organic eggs or milk.

Now, as for the oats, yes, that seems crazy. And don't get me started on the formula.


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## 3inclothdiapers (Nov 18, 2004)

We would qualify for WIC, but have never wanted to. We do know several people who are on it though. You don't really sound like you really need it, if you are concerned about almond butter vs. peanut butter! Don't ask for handouts if you are going to be picky. Sorry if that sounds harsh. Dh is in seminary, so finances are tight, but we believe that God will provide for us. We don't personally believe that should include asking the government for free food. We are surrounded by people who have cable or high speed internet or whatever, and it just seems wrong to ask for free groceries! If we were completely and totally desparate, to the point of not being able to pay bills, and to cutting out the internet, and cutting out restaurants completely, and cutting out all other optional expenses, then maybe WIC would make sense. And in that case I certainly would NOT complain about what kind of milk and peanut butter they were giving me. I would be happy to have food to eat. And like a previous poster, we ask God to nourish us completely with the foods that we can afford.

Sounds like you should drop the WIC and figure out ways to put more money in your grocery budget, if possible, so you can buy the things you really want.

Sorry if I went off on a tangent.







:


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## firstkid4me (Nov 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *3inclothdiapers*
We would qualify for WIC, but have never wanted to. We do know several people who are on it though. You don't really sound like you really need it, if you are concerned about almond butter vs. peanut butter! Don't ask for handouts if you are going to be picky. Sorry if that sounds harsh. Dh is in seminary, so finances are tight, but we believe that God will provide for us. We don't personally believe that should include asking the government for free food. We are surrounded by people who have cable or high speed internet or whatever, and it just seems wrong to ask for free groceries! If we were completely and totally desparate, to the point of not being able to pay bills, and to cutting out the internet, and cutting out restaurants completely, and cutting out all other optional expenses, then maybe WIC would make sense. And in that case I certainly would NOT complain about what kind of milk and peanut butter they were giving me. I would be happy to have food to eat. And like a previous poster, we ask God to nourish us completely with the foods that we can afford.

Sounds like you should drop the WIC and figure out ways to put more money in your grocery budget, if possible, so you can buy the things you really want.

Sorry if I went off on a tangent.







:









YES! Beggars can't be choosers, if you don't like it, don't accept it.

ETA: I was on WIC for a few months when I was pg with dd before dh and I got married and it saved us $50 a month in groceries. They gave us 4 jugs of milk a month, and 4 lbs of cheese, and it was a lot. We would give some of the milk to a friend of ours, and we just kept the cheese. We had frozen juice in the fridge for a long time, I loved the farmer's market vouchers, they were great (you can get so much good food for a $5 voucher!) We did the natural peanut butter, I'd never even heard of almond butter until I came to MDC. I wasn't working at the time, and I was just happy to be contributing something to our family's finances because we were getting ready for the baby and getting married. Once we got married, I went to the WIC office and told them, we made too much married to qualify, they let me keep the rest of the checks they had printed, and I haven't been back since. Just take what you can get and remember there are always people worse off than you, and they certainly wouldn't be complaining about almond vs peanut butter.


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## Plummeting (Dec 2, 2004)

I agree that WIC should provide healthier options - especially when they are either more affordable or the price is the same. I also feel that if you don't need it, you should disenroll. If the only people who signed up for WIC were those who truly needed it, then the program could afford better options. Maybe not organic, but better.


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## Shirelle (May 22, 2006)

I was also on WIC for a while after my first child was born--it helped us when we literally had no money for food, but didn't qualify for food stamps. The milk they give doesn't have all the wonderful nutrients that farm fresh raw milk does, but it has some of them, and if you are very needy it will keep you from having a calcium deficiency. WIC's goal (I believe) is just to try to make sure that children and Mothers are getting enough of the basic VITAMINS....most of the foods (albeit overprocessed and NOT the healthiest things you could eat) do have substantial amounts of iron, vitamin C, calcium, and folic acid. A lot of times children in really poor areas deal with calcium deficiencies and anemia, and these foods are trying to combat that.

ETA: WIC has also recently started a program in some cities that also gives you vouchers for local farmer's markets so that you can also buy healthy produce.


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## VikingKvinna (Dec 31, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firstkid4me*







YES! Beggars can't be choosers, if you don't like it, don't accept it.

What she said. In response to the question in the subject line, I *did* eat it. And getting it for free really helped, since I was single, unemployed (for part of the pg) and pregnant. I wish we qualified now. I would not turn down free milk, cheese, eggs, tuna and beans -- all stuff we eat a lot of.

Next time you're at the WIC office, find a mama who's struggling to corral three young kids, a stroller, assorted diaper bags and toys and coats and other paraphernalia, onto the bus to make her way back home after getting her WIC checks. Ask *her* if she thinks that wanting organic almond butter instead of Skippy makes you a snob.


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## UrbanSimplicity (Oct 26, 2005)

I REALLY need to clarify that I in no way want or expect the govt to give me $10-$12 Almond butter on WIC! Good lord, what kind of crazy person would I be? I specifically said that I dont expect organic foods, but to be able to get REAL oatmeal that costs $2 less then the crap with extra packaging and additives. I think some of you missed the point which is basically WE ALL deserve healthy whole foods, even the poor! Doesn't it seem that a pg/breastfeeding mama should eat some veggies?

One more thing: Obviously, if I qualify for WIC then someone thinks I need it!

No, we are not in danger of STARVING without the food...but if I can save $60 a month on necessities then I can pay my gas bill. I work hard as does my dh....we are small business owners and just started our new (unexpected) family. Thought I would receive more support here. Thank you to the moms who made me feel I was not the only one seeing a few kinks in the system.


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## BookGoddess (Nov 6, 2005)

I'm sorry that you received some of the comments you did. I think some of the posters were unnecessarily harsh.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Wow. I find the attitudes on here fascinating. I stopped using WIC when it stopped offering organics. We could definitely use the help, but organic dairy is something we refuse to skimp on, not only because we believe it to be unhealthy for us, but also because we believe it to be a poor choice for the environment as a whole. As far as the whole, "Why should my tax money go to buy you organic foods?!" question, that just blows my mind. *MY* tax money is also going to WIC. Why should *my* tax money go to mercury-laden tuna, chemical-laced milk, and sugar-filled peanut butter? The entire point of WIC is to provide healthy nutritious food to women, infants, and children. There are ways the system could work for families who do believe that pesticide-free and chemical-free food is the way to go. Most of us have paid into the tax pool in some form or another. We all have the right to advocate for truly healthy and nutritious food. We all have the right to clean, healthy food, even those of us who choose to use WIC.


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## Shirelle (May 22, 2006)

Quote:

I'm sorry that you received some of the comments you did. I think some of the posters were unnecessarily harsh.
I agree....it was a valid question.


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## UrbanSimplicity (Oct 26, 2005)

I'm really hurt by the judgements here:

I am surfing on totally unreliable free wireless internet that I can pick up from some local cafes, and I'm on a computer that a dear dear friend bought me when my last one died. I cannot afford cable even though it would allow me to work easier from home since I have an online business. And I have bunny ears on my sh!tty tv and yes, my apt looks pretty cool, but I collected all the furniture from the TRASH. I don't need to share the rest of my situation....

I am not a begger and live a frugal life and resent being seen as one. I am regretting this post.

What sucks most of all is that a few hours after I posted the op, a terrible thing happened that I am sick over and I woke up thinking "I have no one to talk to, but maybe I'll be brave enough to ask for support on mdc." Now I don't know what I'll do.


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## mothragirl (Sep 10, 2005)

although i qualify for WIC, i choose not to recieve it. aside from food at the farmer's market they don't offer much we eat. i think they need a serious revamping and i'm sure they get kickbacks.


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## hookahgirl (May 22, 2005)

Can you see if your WIC offers farmers market coupons? It may not be organic, but its local produce. They do it in Ohio, but you have to be very poor to get it, I think less than 17,000 a year for a family of four?

Oh and by the way, to all the OPs, just because someone is poor doesnt mean they dont deserve the best food possible. We all do, and if you dont have to rely on programs to buy your food, you should consider yourself very lucky. And even if a person takes the WIC, they dont have to be happy about it. Esp. when they are trying to feed their children good wholesome foods and give them the best start possible.
Why wouldnt you want that not only for your child, but ALL the children???

It would make sense for WIC to offer better foods. Better whole food=healthier people who dont have to go to the doctor as much. Less going to the doctor means less tax money going twards medicaide. WIC, even if it provided all organic foods, would still be cheaper than a trip to the ER. Hum, something to think about, huh??


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## babibelli (Jun 4, 2002)

I do agree that some of the comments here were a bit harsh. There is no shame in using WIC; many people fall into hard times. The majority of our tax $ goes to corporate tax breaks and this stupid war, a very small percentage goes to helping mothers and children. I do not mind paying my taxes at all if it goes to helping people. We were helped when we needed it and I certainly do not mind helping others with the taxes we pay. It's a matter of social responsibility. I can understand why some people would be a little upset about the op's comments-we also cannot afford to eat organic. We do the best we can. This week we're broke so we've had to make do with what we have. That means even "regular" milk at $2.00/gal vs organic at almost 3 times the price. Living is expensive these days and most of us have to make hard decisions between how we'd like to live and what we can afford and is finanically responsible for our families. My opinion is that organic food does no good if we're fighting and stressed out from how broke we are because of our grocery bill. My take is that if its saving you money that you need for other things like rent or utilities, by all means use WIC.


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## mommyoftwo (Apr 6, 2004)

I don't usually post on these threads but wow, some of these comments made me mad and I have never gotten WIC.

Your family deserves healthy food! I see nothing wrong with expecting the government to provide food without transfats, mercury, and other chemicals. If we don't help our children in the country maintain a healthy diet, we pay for it in the long run through health care.

I would much rather my tax dollars go to providing quality food for moms who need it than going to this darn war.


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## firstkid4me (Nov 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *brooklyn lisa*
I REALLY need to clarify that I in no way want or expect the govt to give me $10-$12 Almond butter on WIC! Good lord, what kind of crazy person would I be? I specifically said that I dont expect organic foods, but to be able to get REAL oatmeal that costs $2 less then the crap with extra packaging and additives. I think some of you missed the point which is basically WE ALL deserve healthy whole foods, even the poor! Doesn't it seem that a pg/breastfeeding mama should eat some veggies?

One more thing: Obviously, if I qualify for WIC then someone thinks I need it!

No, we are not in danger of STARVING without the food...but if I can save $60 a month on necessities then I can pay my gas bill. I work hard as does my dh....we are small business owners and just started our new (unexpected) family. Thought I would receive more support here. Thank you to the moms who made me feel I was not the only one seeing a few kinks in the system.

I misunderstood your post, I apologize. I live in WI, and organic milk here is expensive, and I don't eat tuna (because of the mercury, I don't eat much fish period) so I don't have that problem. You can get natural peanut butter on WIC (I think Smucker's makes it) and it is crazy that you can't get whole oats on WIC but you can get packaged oatmeal. Maybe you can ask your WIC office about it like the pp suggested.


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## Mihelinka (Nov 2, 2004)

WIC is by no means perfect. In my opinion they should definetely encourage bf over giving formula coupons... I could go on & on ...anyway
as far as getting organic items. I had thought that you would be able to use WIC coupons for vegetables at your local Farmers market and there are organic farmers, I dont know about in Brooklyn but at the union square market in manhattan there are. Again I "thought" you could use them but maybe its food stamps that I'm thinking of...


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## amcal (Jan 13, 2003)

I think the issue is that she clearly stated she doesn't really need it but takes it any way and then complains about the food she gets.

It would be wonderful if WIC could provide whole/organic/raw/free range foods but that's not reasonable. The average person can barely afford to pay for these, let alone asking the government to pay for them for everyone on food assistance.

WIC is a SUPPLEMENTAL program. It's not designed to be your sole source of food.

There is no way the government can or should be your sole source of food - it's impossible.

Maybe make sure the other foods you buy are whole foods/organic/free range etc....


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## firstkid4me (Nov 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mihelinka*
WIC is by no means perfect. In my opinion they should definetely encourage bf over giving formula coupons... I could go on & on ...anyway
as far as getting organic items. I had thought that you would be able to use WIC coupons for vegetables at your local Farmers market and there are organic farmers, I dont know about in Brooklyn but at the union square market in manhattan there are. Again I "thought" you could use them but maybe its food stamps that I'm thinking of...

Just think, the money spent on formula could be used to provide better food in the area. I think it's a state (maybe county?) effort, so it's not like the federal government regulates it.


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## maxmama (May 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firstkid4me*
Just think, the money spent on formula could be used to provide better food in the area. I think it's a state (maybe county?) effort, so it's not like the federal government regulates it.

No, that's not true. WIC is a federal program with program rules and limited funding. States can add to that funding and food availability (we have farmer's market checks in WA, for example, and organic milk) , but are not required to. They are required to fulfill the federal WIC program, which spells out the acceptable foods in some detail.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amcal*
I think the issue is that she clearly stated she doesn't really need it but takes it any way and then complains about the food she gets. .

I think it's terribly judgemental to pick apart the OP and decide she somehow has no right to complain. She obviously meets the income requirements, so she is a WIC client. She has a right to complain. Heck, I"m not on WIC but am a concerned tax payer. I have the right to complain too!

Quote:

It would be wonderful if WIC could provide whole/organic/raw/free range foods but that's not reasonable. The average person can barely afford to pay for these, let alone asking the government to pay for them for everyone on food assistance.
The "government" isn't a stand-alone entity; it's made up of all of us. We ALL have the right to advocate for safe, healthy, clean food for all.

Quote:

WIC is a SUPPLEMENTAL program. It's not designed to be your sole source of food.
I do agree with this, and it is a common misconception that people expect WIC to provide fully for their nutritional needs.

Quote:

Maybe make sure the other foods you buy are whole foods/organic/free range etc...








Great idea!


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## amcal (Jan 13, 2003)

It's not that I think she doesn't have the right to complain - of course she does. If she had come one here and said how hard it is to be on WIC and be so limited in your choices and how she so much wants to give her children quality food - people probably would have been much more sympathetic.

But, she didn't do that. She starts out by saying that she doesn't really even need it which I think really rankles people - at least it rankles me. There are so many needy people in this country. To take a service that you don't really need, takes food and other services away from people who really, desperately need them.

She then goes on to complain about how sad it is that our government doesn't provide nutritious food for our women and children. This is ridiculous. WIC does provide nutritious food - maybe not organic/free range/raw etc... but, in the big picture, it provides a lot more nutrition than many people would otherwise get. On WIC, you get grains, dairy, fruits, veggies - this is a lot more than many people in our country - not to mention around the world get.

And then she complains about how much milk she gets?

Besides, she asked if she was being a snob - she opened herself up for criticism. So, I really don't think she can complain when people answer her question and tell her that, yeah, it is a bit snobbish to complain when there are people all over this country not to mention the world who would give their right arm to feed that food to their starving children.


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## Mom2Lily (May 18, 2003)

In case no one has clarified (I didn't see it, but could have missed it) Quaker Oats don't qualify because they don't have enough of the "fortified" viatmins. I asked my office, and that is what they said. I can not find a single cereal (and I spend over 30 minutes in the cereal aisle) that does not have sugar in it. Sad, but true.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Back to the main point, I think it's a great question -- how can we get by on the resources we have at our disposal. Most of us can't afford a diet that is 100% organic and meat that is 100% pastured. So of the food that we can afford and do eat, how can we maximize the nutrients in our diet?

Jennifer brought up a good point earlier in the thread: certain food preparation techniques can add nutrients to your food or increase your body's ability to digest the nutrients. There are a lot of resources on this forum already for this issue.

You can culture and ferment your foods to add vitamins, enzymes, and beneficial bacteria to your diet. Use the WIC milk to make your own yogurt and cheese. Make fermented bean dishes.

Soak your grains and legumes to reduce the phytate content in them. Phytates bind to minerals in your digestive tract and your body is not able to absorb those minerals. Reducing phytates increases the minerals you will absorb. Soak the oatmeal. (And it is CRAZY that they only allowed packets of oatmeal -- I agree with a PP, definitely double check.)


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mom2Lily*
In case no one has clarified (I didn't see it, but could have missed it) Quaker Oats don't qualify because they don't have enough of the "fortified" viatmins.

That makes sense in a backwards sort of way. Does this apply to grains as well? Or is there a certain allotment for breakfast cereal that's the issue here?


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## Mom2Lily (May 18, 2003)

"Does this apply to grains as well? Or is there a certain allotment for breakfast cereal that's the issue here?"

Sorry I don't really understand. There are only certain cereals you can get and you would think regular oats would be okay, but like I said they aren't. so only fortified cereals work and only the fortified ones they say work. I'm just really mad about the SUGAR!!!







:

T


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## kate~mom (Jul 21, 2003)

wow - i am astounded by some of these attitudes! as i believe AM pointed out, obviously the op qualifies for wic based on their income guidelines - so i think the argument of whether she *needs it is somewhat moot.

what the beggars can't be choosers (and BOY is that phrase offensive to the op, i imagine) argument ignores is the following - so only people who can AFFORD non-pesticide-ridden, antibiotic-pumped, sugar-filled food deserve it? i don't see the op complaining that her bottle of white truffle oil wasn't covered - she wants plain oatmeal. i don't see what is so outlandish.


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## NaomiLorelie (Sep 2, 2004)

Maybe the OP is REALLY good at being frugal. Maybe she has trust in herself to be able to aquire food without the WIC supplements if she wasn't able to receive. However, if she is receiving WIC then her income level is low enough to qualify. I think it is a little strange to judge someone for her personal interpretation on her own situation. The amount of income it takes to just qualify for WIC is pretty hard to live on. Cut the OP a break.


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## Ammaarah (May 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BookGoddess*
I'm sorry that you received some of the comments you did. I think some of the posters were unnecessarily harsh.











Personally, I'd be very happy w/my tax dollars paying for organic food for children and moms. Better than plenty of the other "projects" the government has going.


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
Why should *my* tax money go to mercury-laden tuna, chemical-laced milk, and sugar-filled peanut butter? The entire point of WIC is to provide healthy nutritious food to women, infants, and children. There are ways the system could work for families who do believe that pesticide-free and chemical-free food is the way to go. Most of us have paid into the tax pool in some form or another. We all have the right to advocate for truly healthy and nutritious food. We all have the right to clean, healthy food, even those of us who choose to use WIC.

I agree that we should all have the right to clean, healthy food. But I really can't get the leap that it is therefore right that my dh should work his ass off to pay taxes that then pay for other people to afford to eat food that he can't afford to buy for his own family.

I also don't get the leap that somehow people who dont believe that the govt should provide organics, therefore support the spending on the war. The two things are not linked.

I am strongly, strongly anti the war and most govt policies. I do not resent paying tax one bit. I believe that systems should be in place to provide food for those who need it. I believe that I should pay in taxes for that to happen.

I don't believe that Skippy should be the PB provided. But I do think that to ask for organic almond butter is, yes, a trifle snobbish. I think that the system obviuosly needs some work and the foods rethought. And as I said in my OP, don't even get me started on the formula.

But to assume that if I think that providing expensive organics on the state is unreasonable, I therefore resent paying taxes (and therefore must support the war), is misinterpreting entirely what I said.

Maybe a little off topic, but I guess that my feathers were ruffled on this issue a long tiem ago when a poster complained about a gift token that wouldnt buy her organics, at the time of the mdc drive. I had stretched my holiday budget considerably to send people gift tokens for food. I do not buy all organics myself for my own children. It surprises me that so many posters here are OK with the idea of paying for others to eat what they cannot afford for their own families. I applaud you, but I'm maybe just not as generous in spirit as some people here.

I am wondering now about the meals that I buy for a homeless man in our town. Whenever we go into town, the kids pick out a meal for him, either from a nearby restaurant, or the supermarket. I never buy him organics. I try to buy non-crap food, although the kids often choose cookies etc too. We put in fruit, bread, some cheese, and some other stuff.

Am I wrong to do this and not buy him organics? I'm not being snarky here, I'm truly curious. What would you do? I spend about $7 or so each time we do this. Should I buy quality food or go for quantity? I would ask him but he doenst talk, except to say hello and nod at the kids.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Dude, I'm totally confused. I never even *mentioned* the war. Where on earth did you pull that from?!?!


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Britishmum*
I agree that we should all have the right to clean, healthy food. But I really can't get the leap that it is therefore right that my dh should work his ass off to pay taxes that then pay for other people to afford to eat food that he can't afford to buy for his own family.

My point is that those "other people" may be working their asses off as well. They're paying into the system, same as you. People on food stamps can use their money to buy organic if it's important to them; people on WIC can't. People on medical assistance can probably get things I can't afford for my own family, but I don't begrudge them that.

Quote:

Maybe a little off topic, but I guess that my feathers were ruffled on this issue a long tiem ago when a poster complained about a gift token that wouldnt buy her organics, at the time of the mdc drive. I had stretched my holiday budget considerably to send people gift tokens for food. I do not buy all organics myself for my own children. It surprises me that so many posters here are OK with the idea of paying for others to eat what they cannot afford for their own families. I applaud you, but I'm maybe just not as generous in spirit as some people here.
I can understand how that would be upsetting, but I don't think you can compare a holiday helper drive to WIC. WIC isn't a gift, it's a service.

Quote:

I am wondering now about the meals that I buy for a homeless man in our town. Whenever we go into town, the kids pick out a meal for him, either from a nearby restaurant, or the supermarket. I never buy him organics. I try to buy non-crap food, although the kids often choose cookies etc too. We put in fruit, bread, some cheese, and some other stuff.

Am I wrong to do this and not buy him organics? I'm not being snarky here, I'm truly curious. What would you do? I spend about $7 or so each time we do this. Should I buy quality food or go for quantity? I would ask him but he doenst talk, except to say hello and nod at the kids.
No idea. I usually just give people money and let them use it as they will, but that's me. When I am buying food for the church food pantry I do often buy as healthy as I can for as inexpensively as I can. So, all natural applesauce rather than stuff with corn syrup in it, even if it's not organic. No sugar-added peanut butter, not organic almond butter.







But I don't buy the cheap 3/$1 mac and cheese either because there's no real nutritional value to it. But again, I think comparing personal acts of charity to a government service is apples and oranges.

And I'm just skipping over the war stuff because you totally plucked that out of nowhere. I never mentioned the war or liberals or conservatives.


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
Dude, I'm totally confused. I never even *mentioned* the war. Where on earth did you pull that from?!?!

Sorry, nak, I wasnt meaning you re the war. That was a turn the thread took on page 2. The implication seemed to be that if you mention tax $$s you are a stereotypical republican. That's how I took it, anyway.


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## rootzdawta (May 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ammaarah*









Personally, I'd be very happy w/my tax dollars paying for organic food for children and moms. Better than plenty of the other "projects" the government has going.

I totally agree. In the grand scheme of things (and maybe I'm being a little utopic) everyone should have access to healthy and whole foods regardless of how little or how much money they make. Isn't is to ridiciulous? It costs more money to strip, process and package foods (like the packaged oatmeal) then to provide the raw uncut. It's obvious that someone (not the general public just trying to survive) benefits from programs and set-ups that make fake and unhealthy foods more accessible and cheap. I wanted to buy some graham crackers for my little cousin who was visiting and at my local grocery store I couldn't find ONE box of crackers without trans-fat--not one. At the HFS, there were many varieties--not organic but the exact same price as the trans-fat ones. I keep wondering how a struggling mama could ever travel the 30 mins to get the healthier ones . . .and I just counted my blessings.


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
My point is that those "other people" may be working their asses off as well. They're paying into the system, same as you. People on food stamps can use their money to buy organic if it's important to them; people on WIC can't. People on medical assistance can probably get things I can't afford for my own family, but I don't begrudge them that.

I can understand how that would be upsetting, but I don't think you can compare a holiday helper drive to WIC. WIC isn't a gift, it's a service.

Yep but that thread took a similar turn - ie everyone has a right to organics, so those of us who dont feel we should pay for it are immoral/selfish/tightwads.









I dont think that charity vs govt is unrelated though. If I give $x in taxes, I think it should be spent wisely. Like you say, if you give to the food drive, you strike a balance in what you buy. I dont think it unreasonable to expect govt agencies to do the same. Which imo is healthy PB not Skippy, and decent cereal. And promoting breastfeeding, not formula. Which is what you say you do when you give. I see that posters differ in what they view as wise spending by govt. That's fine. But it irritates me to be jumped on as being callous for having that different view. I'd prefer twice the number of families get healthy PB with my tax dollars than anyone get organics. I dont see that as being mean, just practical.

(Re the homeless. I give money too, but we like to buy food aswell. We used to see him rumaging through trash for food







But since we've been buying him food we've not seen him doing that







)


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rootzdawta*
I totally agree. In the grand scheme of things (and maybe I'm being a little utopic) everyone should have access to healthy and whole foods regardless of how little or how much money they make. Isn't is to ridiciulous? It costs more money to strip, process and package foods (like the packaged oatmeal) then to provide the raw uncut. It's obvious that someone (not the general public just trying to survive) benefits from programs and set-ups that make fake and unhealthy foods more accessible and cheap. I wanted to buy some graham crackers for my little cousin who was visiting and at my local grocery store I couldn't find ONE box of crackers without trans-fat--not one. At the HFS, there were many varieties--not organic but the exact same price as the trans-fat ones. I keep wondering how a struggling mama could ever travel the 30 mins to get the healthier ones . . .and I just counted my blessings.

Aaah, ITA re transfats - I think they should be banned, period, in all foods, not just those on WIC.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Britishmum*
I dont think that charity vs govt is unrelated though. If I give $x in taxes, I think it should be spent wisely. Like you say, if you give to the food drive, you strike a balance in what you buy. I dont think it unreasonable to expect govt agencies to do the same. Which imo is healthy PB not Skippy, and decent cereal. And promoting breastfeeding, not formula. Which is what you say you do when you give. I see that posters differ in what they view as wise spending by govt. That's fine. But it irritates me to be jumped on as being callous for having that different view. I'd prefer twice the number of families get healthy PB with my tax dollars than anyone get organics. I dont see that as being mean, just practical.

(Re the homeless. I give money too, but we like to buy food aswell. We used to see him rumaging through trash for food







But since we've been buying him food we've not seen him doing that







)

I still don't know. I think this is all somewhat of a red herring.

How many people really would buy organics if they were offered? I really have a hard time believing that there are enough people out there to break the system. And the point is, it's NOT all that healthy. It is Skippy and Jif and sugar cereals rather than whole grains. So I think attacking the OP (I'm not saying you did, but I do believe some people on this thread did) avoids the point, which is that for a healthy, nutritious supplemental food program, WIC doesn't necessarily provide healthy, nutritious food. So how do we change it? That's the big question.


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## Ammaarah (May 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rootzdawta*
In the grand scheme of things (and maybe I'm being a little utopic) everyone should have access to healthy and whole foods regardless of how little or how much money they make.

Utopic? Perhaps, but safe and clean food is a basic human right in my book, and the fact that _I_ can't afford 100% organic doesn't mean we all don't deserve it. JMO.


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## cam&kat's_mom (Jan 12, 2006)

I'm gonna chime in my 2 cents her and hopefully not get bashed.
We also get WIC due to our income and family size. We use a lot of what we are given and the rest goes to family and friends that are in need and d0on't qualify (Their kids are too old etc) We dont' have teh option of getting checks to go to teh store and choose what we want to buy. We get teh food delivered to our houses at 4 am in all sorts of weather. Pouruing rain or blizzard like snow often soaks teh boxes of cereal and eggs so the carton are unusable. In teh sumer you must leave a cooler out of your food spoils in teh heat in teh winter it freezes. Seriously. I'm not joking. It may seem liek a luxary to not have ot pick teh cheks up adn shop for hte food but it greatly limits what you can get and when you get it. If we are out of milk on Saturday and WIC comes on Tuesday we have to go out and buy milk (regardless if we just went and got groceris or not) Several tiems teh milk is at expiration date when it is delivered so it spoils before it is consumed or we try and freeze and and unthaw it but it never tastes quite right after it is frozen and unthawed. We do get all natural peanut butter (some generic brand but it's just peanuts adn salt for ingredients so i don't care) the chees ewe get is wonderful but onyl choices are cheddar or american and teh american has yellow food dye in it which DS cannot have due ot allergy. So we just get cheddar. The beans tuna and carrots are solely a benefit as long as you breast feed, If you ask for forumla form them they drop those form your order. Also baby rice cereal starts arrivein gas soon as your DC reaches 4 months along with orange juice grape or apple juice concentrates (not frozen)
Quite franlkly to me this is a bad message to send to new parents at 4 month. (Here's juice and cereal to feed your baby that may not be ready for such things) I'm not being ungreatful in any way shape or form adn quite honestly if we stopped getting WIC all together we woudl be cutting out a lto of our food that we do buy. (Which is mainly whole foods and all natural (or organic when we can afford it)) The cereal we get is 4 or 5 choices mainly general mills and sucpposedly whole grain.
I totally agree with others statements that the program needs serious revamping. and more options for healthier foods but these arent' that unhealthy as far as general nourishment goes. If people neeed assistance purchasing food over and beyond WIC they can try for food stamps those allpow you a set $$ amoutn to spend on food for your family. That may help with the heatlhier options issue.
OH and one other thing, as far as takign food that you qualify for but don't need/use all of. We tried to decline about half of our foods form WIC. Cause we still needed help but we were recieving WAY too much food and felt terrible that others might be denied food that we werent' even using. Well when we tried to refuse 1/2 our order (Told the nutritionis t that it was way more thatn we use) we were told that for our family size (2 adults, a toddle rand a nursing baby) at the time if we weren't taking our full order and using it all then we were providing improper nutrition to our children adn family. Honeslty how does anyone use 4 gallons of milk a week with this size family. PLUS 8 lbs of cheese a month? We were told that we would be monitored for proper nutrition if we refused any of teh items but stayed on teh program. So we didn't efuse them >We just pass them along. (OH and the tax $$ my DH and I pay taxes as wel to fund several programs that w e dont' and never will use... but I dont' think we should stop having these programs for those that need them!)
Sorry thsi got lengthy. I think it's hard for those not on the program or never have been on teh program to understand how it works sometimes and it's easy to look into someoen elses backyard and comment on teh grass but unless you're livign there it really isnt' "real". Hugs to original poster and hope you get it figured out.


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

cam&kat's_mom - it sounds incredibly frustrating. I can totally see that the system needs overhauling. I hope that things get easier for your family.

Just to be clear - I believe I was the first to mention tax dollars, but I didnt say in any way that we shouldnt have WIC. I said that the money should be spent wisely & imo that does not include organics.

Now, obviously I agree that in utopia the whole world would be fed wholesome organic foods. But in reality, the focus should be on the fact that the whole world should be fed. And if organics are too expensive for the average family, we cant expect to tax them more so that those on WIC can eat organics. Can we?

Of course I know that money could be cut elsewhere (ha, Iraq) and we could afford organics all round. But that isnt the point. It is all about priorities and balance. I guess we just differ in what we think those priorities should be.


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## Lilcrunchie (Jun 16, 2004)

I think I primarily get kind of irritated that a lot of the foods provided are IMO based on outdated nutritional information (like the rice cereal starting at 4 months that a PP mentioned). I know they are trying to meet RDAs of nutrients but pumping them into foods in an artificial form isn't all that effective. Same w/ dairy...lots of research out there debating if pasteurized, homogenized, factory-farmed milk really does much to help w/ calcium (I'm not vegan, but I don't believe that most convential dairy is all that hot nutritionally).

I can understand that the gov't can't afford organics, but I do think there are inexpensive foods that could fit a family's needs more effectively than sugary cereal can.

I feel badly for the OP getting jumped all over







I don't eat tuna or most fish now at all, and I think it would be hard to know what most of us know about mercury around here and eat it without worry, even if I was in need of food.


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## corwinegall (Jul 7, 2004)

Food Stamps, or whatever they call it now, is a food assistance program, WIC is a nutritional assistance program, so the 'beggers can't be choosers' bash doesn't apply. WIC is to help educate and support in nutrition. So this issue is TOTALLY worthy of discussion.

I don't think WIC nesc needs to offer organic food-if they need to keep costs down, that's one of the best ways, but I do find it appalling that they let people get sugary peanut butter and processed cereals. I'm really surprised about the tuna too, but I suppose it is an easy way to get protein in.

I do think its ment more for people who don't know much about nutrition and what babies need, and people who feel they need to cut down on the amount of milk or formula or make other food choices (think top ramen-awlful) to save money. I don't think that applies to me. But I do take it, it is such a big help with the budget. I've thought about taking what I don't need and giving it to the food bank-but its just the same just not getting what I don't need and keeping the $$ in WIC.


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## UrbanSimplicity (Oct 26, 2005)

WOW-

What a debate I set off!

It seems some people still think I want free organic almond butter...







:

I thought I'd get answers like "I qualified for WIC but just couldnt bring myself to eat conventional tuna while bfing." or "I fed my 4 kids conventional tuna for years and they all turned out great!"

So "WOW"!

I really did mean my op as a jugement on the govt and feel they could adjust what foods they offer to better serve the recipiants and not have it cost them money. Like instead of offering 8 different juices when 6 of them have color, sugar, and preservatives--they could simply offer their 2 natural choices: 100% orange or 100% pineapple.

Also, you should know that part of reason some of the food seems undesirable to me is that I get it from the filthy run down supermarket in my neighborhood. I grew up in the suburbs and know what its like to drive to a great big shiny, clean, well stocked supermarket. Here I live in a poor, mostly Hispanic neighborhood and we walk to the only store nearby. So I know that is a separate arguement here on the boards, but it nonetheless affects how I feel about my food.

That being said-

I love and appreciate the juice, carrots, beans, cheese and eggs. (I now make a mean frittata!)

I wish there was a no- or low-sugar option pb.

The tuna concerns me. (i mean, does the fed. govt not know/care/believe that mercury is bad for baby's brain? I thought this had been pretty much proven, even in mainstream circles.)

The box cereals are awful....you can get frosted mini wheats or at "best" cheerios. I read the fine print and figured out I could get oatmeal. The oatmeal choice annoys me, but I understand that it is because it has supplemental vitamins. (I just dont think these work very well IMHO.)

The milk is a problem because of the quantity and they set it up so you can't *not* get it. (And remember, I WALK to the store. Coming home to my 4 story walk up with 3 gallons of milk in the stroller along with everything else is no picnic!) Milk is a super allergenic food--initially I was drinking milk with everything I had a stuffy nose for 2 weeks. I have tons of food allergies.

At my appointment next week I am going to:

1. not let them give me coupons for formula (a no-brainer)

2. ask why I'm not eligible for fruits and veggies from the farmers makets (i think you get this once your children eat solids.)

3. get double beans instead of pb. (i think this is possible)

Thanks to all the moms who have been giving me support. Frankly, you put my feelings into words much better than I did!

And thank you to the few of you who offered other creative ways to feed my family. I'd love to have a garden but am in a north facing apt without even a fire escape (we had to buy a rope ladder!) I do plan on making a bunch of yogurt any day now!

Let's keep the constructive critique going!


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## Mihelinka (Nov 2, 2004)

*TUNA*







:
Just thought I'd through this in, are they just giving you the cans of tuna or do you get coupons to purchase it? The reason for my question being that "chunk light tuna" is supposed to have much less mercury than "white albacore tuna" not sure why, but my mw had mentioned this to me. So if you can choose which tuna you can buy chunk light tuna is a less mercury filled alternative.


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## mamachandi (Sep 21, 2002)

Herausgeber said:


> As a now-grown-up WIC baby, my mom ate all that tuna and milk, and so did I. I turned out just fine. It's light years better than eating cheap junk food all the time, if that's the alternative. If you need the program to feed your family, use it.
> 
> But I admit, organics are luxury to me, chosen mainly for taste when I find that it's superior, or if a particular product's growing practices are sketchy. If I lost my job tomorrow, the organic stuff would be the first to go. And I *rarely* shop at Whole Foods, which is grossly overpriced. Their profit margins are the stuff that most grocery retailers dream of. That money isn't making its way back to the farmers, I assure you.
> 
> ...


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## mamachandi (Sep 21, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mihelinka*
*TUNA*







:
Just thought I'd through this in, are they just giving you the cans of tuna or do you get coupons to purchase it? The reason for my question being that "chunk light tuna" is supposed to have much less mercury than "white albacore tuna" not sure why, but my mw had mentioned this to me. So if you can choose which tuna you can buy chunk light tuna is a less mercury filled alternative.

yes yes!! my mw said so too! I buy that once a week.
also I read a story about a seaside city where the woman and children ate fish (trhat supposedly had mercury galore in it) everday and they didn't seem to have anymore toxic levels than woman who ate less??? so though I still am careful about what fish I eat I wouldn't worry too too much...


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

ate all the stuff from WIC. The only reason we used up all the milk when I was BF was because I was the only one officially on WIC but the milk covered all 4 of us (not counting the baby.)

Unsweetened apple juice concentrate can be used in recipes.

The deal with the cereal is the iron content- all WIC cereals are fortified with iron. Cheerios are probably the most "natural" of the options- the least amount of added sugar and salt, and no BHT used as a preservative.

I never had a problem with the 4 cans of tuna a month- I mean, that's a single can a week- how much mercury is in THAT??


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## mamachandi (Sep 21, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla*
ate all the stuff from WIC. The only reason we used up all the milk when I was BF was because I was the only one officially on WIC but the milk covered all 4 of us (not counting the baby.)

Unsweetened apple juice concentrate can be used in recipes.

The deal with the cereal is the iron content- all WIC cereals are fortified with iron. Cheerios are probably the most "natural" of the options- the least amount of added sugar and salt, and no BHT used as a preservative.

I never had a problem with the 4 cans of tuna a month- I mean, that's a single can a week- how much mercury is in THAT??

yup-


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## Herausgeber (Apr 29, 2006)

_this is not true and a rediculous statement at best! As someone who has worked with farmers who literally make their living off selling to wf's and other natural foods stores I am so offended by your ignorance on that issue!!
please stop spewing info you know nothing about but just assume because of pseudo radical beliefs!_

I'm not ignorant, nor do I have "pseudo radical beliefs." Indeed, I'm a skeptic about organic labeling, knowing full well that to ag business that it's a marketing scheme to them more than anything else. This is why, for example, they push for preposterous changes to the organic labeling regulations that would allow them to feed their "organic" chickens conventional food when they organic feed gets "too expensive."

I have an ag background (including ag business) and grew up on a farm. Whole Foods is an anti-union, anti-farmer company. They practically brag about it in their financial statements. Read those sometimes, instead of their green-washed press releases. Your farmers might make their living selling to WF, but I assure you, based on what I see in WF's financial statements, it's still WF that is getting the best end of that deal. Their profit margins are the best in the grocery business, and it comes at the expense of what they pay their workers and their suppliers. Financially, it pays more to be a shareholder of WF than a supplier to them or a shopper there any day.

Disagree with me if you like, but there's no need to be "offended" by my assessment of their business practices. Feel free to share any factual information (profit margins, producer payments compared with other grocery chains and natural food stores, etc) that contradict my perception. I'd love for it not to be true, since the Whole Foods is closer to me than the food co-op.


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## 3inclothdiapers (Nov 18, 2004)

Sorry if my comments were harsh.
After reading this thread, I have come to the conclusion that it's really more of an issue of over-hauling the food in this country in general, not just WIC. If the government were to start subsidizing organic milk farmers (and other organic products) like they do the regular, costs would go down on those items and we ALL could afford them, WIC included. And if certain preservatives and hydrogenated oils and stuff like that were actually banned from foods, then NONE of us could buy them, including WIC. But in the meantime, why should WIC offer foods that the average person can't afford to buy? I do see your point about the quantities and think some of the rules are kind of silly. But, it looks like they are trying to offer healthy foods (they aren't letting you buy poptarts for breakfast, are they?) and based on what I see people buying in the grocery store, it's a fairly healthy diet. And it sounds like most people try to pass along the foods they can't eat, so it's not getting wasted.

A lot of things need to change in this country regarding food. Until that happens, I don't think you should expect too many changes from WIC!


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## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

This thread has gotten me more worked up than I have been in a LONG time!

First off, to the OP. No, you are not a snob. I think it is OK for you to want organic almond butter although I recoognize that you are not even asking for that. I understand what you are going through. I am there myself.

We quit WIC because I simply could not bring myself to feed that crap to my family. Sorry to the people that think beggars can't be choosers. You can start throwing your flames at me all you want, it will not change the fact that this "nutritional program" is really a farm/corporate subsidy program that is based more on what the lobbists want you to eat than on what is healthy. I am downright disgusted that MY tax dollars are being used this way. Lets take a looksee....

In MI, where I live, I cannot buy organic. I believe organic is not a "luxury". It is not a luxury for health OR for the environment. Organic food is more important to me than what housing I have, whether I can have a car or not, etc..... We are poor poor poor right now but I still buy 100% organic foods. And I will continue to do so until the roof over my head is threatened. Whatever the case, I have paid a great deal of taxes over my lifetime and I do want to ensure that poor children get quality food.

Hydrogenated oil is NOT food. In MI, I can only buy the PB with hydrogenated oil. I cannot get Smuckers natural or anything like that. Why on earth does anyone think it is a good idea to offer food that has been proven to cause heart disease AND cancer to people that are likely on government medical? I mean HELLO!!!! The government will be paying for the expensive medical care of many of these people down the road. doe sit not make sense to not only offer a healthier alterntive but perhaps even BAN that poison?

The cereal is a joke. First off, cereal is not very healthy anyway. And they are more hung up on fortification than exposing people to whole grain, low sugar, low chemical foods. If they are relly stuck on it, hand out vitamins. I spent a good hour in the cereal aisle looking for ANY WIC cereal I thought was OK to feed to my dd and left empty handed. Insane. My only criteria was 100% whole grain, no sugar, no chemicals. I know organic was out of the question. But come on! Why do they ALL have sugar?

Juice is not good for any one any time. The last thing that a nutritional program should be doing is getting babies hooked on sugar. How dumb is that? It is like handing over a generation on a platter to the soda companies. I did get tomato juice that I used to make bloody mary's so that I could calm down and NOT storm the WIC office. I am kidding on the last line before anyone starts to think that I am advocting using WIC juice as drink mixers.....

The tuna thing is also dumb. There are other prepacked protien sources that make more sense for pg and nursing women.

I could go on all day......

It makes me very sad to hear people with their "beggars can't be choosers" and "I cannot afford that food why should poor children?" comments. Poor kids deserve good food just as much as rich kids. Unfortuantely, most children are at the mercy of thier parents choices. And even more unfortunatelty, some are also at the mercy of bad goverment practices. It is NOT THIER FAULT that they were born poor. For those that have decided that buying organic is not important enough for them to make whatever sacrifices, that is cool with me. I can understand. I myself would quit buying organic if it meant sacrificing the roof over my head. We all have drawn that line somewhere. But if a low income parent wants to feed thier kids whole and healthy foods, I say be a choosy beggar!

It would cost the government a lot less overall if all poor children were exposed to whole and healthy foods. Imagine that.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Actually, they ARE starting to change the WIC program- but changing things in a burocracy take time.

The quantities of milk have already been reduced during the last few yeras (in NY anyway.) Over the winter, they offered $5 per month in fresh produce, and over the summer they have the Farmer's Market program. I think the plan is for the fresh produce to eventually replace the juices- at least I hope so!


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Here, I'm pretty sure you can ask for extra cheese to replace milk.

I wonder what we could do if we all put our minds to trying to reform WIC?


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## activistmama (May 5, 2006)

my experience with WIC has been very positive mainly because the community food coop in my neighborhood accepts WIC checks. We get organic BGH free milk, vegetarian-fed free range eggs, and natural peanut butter. These choices are not available for WIC shoppers at the big supermarkets in town, but one chain store does allow organic milk. So my advice is look around and see if other stores in your area offer organic products for WIC shoppers. If not, ask your natural foods store why they don't participate in WIC. Maybe you can gather enough interest or find a sympathetic insider at the natural foods store to instigate change and persuade them to accept WIC. Ask any local farmers markets if they would consider teaming up with WIC.

The actual WIC food choices are questionable, but I find that as long as you have quality and organic products to choose from you can incorporate them into a healthy diet. Or, as others have suggested, share! I have donated Earth's Best rice cereal to the food bank on several occasions.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to eat safe and healthy and wanting the same for your family. Everyone deserves good food. To take a line from Food Not Bombs...(healthy and safe) Food is a right, not a privilege.

Good luck!


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## lunasmommy (Jun 30, 2005)

This part of the reason why we stopped going to WIC appts...and our vax issue. But thats another post...


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## DuckyTate (Aug 11, 2004)

I never got WIC because I had better luck getting helthier food on the Colorado Comidities Program (Sorry spelling dork.) when we lived in CO.

Ask and see if there is a program like that in your area.

Have you looked in to the Share Food Network I think they are nation (USA) wide too.


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## maxmama (May 5, 2006)

Here's what I can't figure out: why is quality food (regardless of its organic/nonorganic nature; I ate a lot of food when I lived in Ireland that wasn't organic but was very high-quality) the prerogative of the rich in this country? Is this some bizarro Marie Antoinette world, let them eat crap?


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## mamajessica (Sep 15, 2004)

Yooper, you are my girl














!


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## UrbanSimplicity (Oct 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamajessica*
Yooper, you are my girl














!









:

Thanks for the info on the tuna. Yes, I have to get the chunk lite tuna (which ironically made me assume it was the least healthy of the choices!)

Now I feel somewhat better.

BTW, everyone--I DO eat all this food and my dd is a beautifully fat and happy specimen of a baby!


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

So, what can we do? I realize this goes beyond the scope of the OP, but I've been thinking about this. How can we organize and make our voices heard? Not necessarily about organics, but about more healthy, whole choices. A mama in my playgroup was reemed out by the grocery store manager for attempting to buy non-organic BHG-free milk.









One thing to realize, is that WIC is run out of the US Dept of Agriculture. It was originally intended to be a government program that also helped send some money the farmers' way. So how can we use this to get some activism going?


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## kat85 (Apr 12, 2006)

I like WIC but the choices stinks, I remember I was denied Rasin Bran cereal and I like why it better then froste mini wheats


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maxmama*
Here's what I can't figure out: why is quality food (regardless of its organic/nonorganic nature; I ate a lot of food when I lived in Ireland that wasn't organic but was very high-quality) the prerogative of the rich in this country? Is this some bizarro Marie Antoinette world, let them eat crap?

In case some of these comments are directed at me, (the one I've quoted and other posters) i wanted to clarify (repeat) what I have said. I have this feeling that the word 'tax' creates a knee-jerk assumption about what someone is saying and believes. I was saying that many families scrape buy and have little left after paying taxes. Their tax dollars need to be spent wisely. imo that does not include organics (and sorry to the OP, but the original post that you prefer organic almond butter did read as if that's what you would expect. I'm glad you later clarified)

I agree 100% about transfats. And about Skippy. And crap cereals.

I guess on organics we just differ. I said in my last post that personally I'd prefer the govt to feed 2x as many families with good non-organic food than 1x on organics. I happen to view organics as a luxury at the prices they cost. Maybe they shouldn't be, but imo they are.

Some people dont see them as luxury. That's fine. I can see your POv, but I just dont agree.

So in answering the OP, (which imo was not clear, but has been clarified in subsequent posts), I do think it 'snobbish' to view all those items as unuseable. You asked, I answered honestly - and I think quite gently. I have many of those items in my kitchen and I dont think I feed my family a crap diet. It's not 100% ideal, but neither is it crap.

In no way does this equate to saying that quality food is a prerogative of the rich. I answered the OP: I dont view all those items as crap food. I wouldnt feed my kids Skippy, but they eat cheerios, and if I couldnt afford organic eggs, they'd eat non-organic (sometimes they do). We have non-organic OJ in the fridge. There have been times in my own life when I'd have been so incredibly grateful for a basket of those things. Yes, I've been poor, I've survived on 6 bagels & a pot of cream cheese for a week (a special offer - buy the bagels, get the cheese free) or a pot of PB and a loaf of crap, (yes truly, truly crap) bread. Maybe my perspective comes from having done that. I dunno.

So my opinion of what constitutes reasonable food varies from some of you. That's not the same as saying 'let them eat crap' at all


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
One thing to realize, is that WIC is run out of the US Dept of Agriculture. It was originally intended to be a government program that also helped send some money the farmers' way. So how can we use this to get some activism going?

Now that stinks. I imagine its the big 'farmers' who benefit. I come from a farming family, and know how small farms are put out of business by these guys.


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## maxmama (May 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Britishmum*
In case some of these comments are directed at me, (the one I've quoted and other posters) i wanted to clarify (repeat) what I have said. I have this feeling that the word 'tax' creates a knee-jerk assumption about what someone is saying and believes. I was saying that many families scrape buy and have little left after paying taxes. Their tax dollars need to be spent wisely. imo that does not include organics (and sorry to the OP, but the original post that you prefer organic almond butter did read as if that's what you would expect. I'm glad you later clarified)

I agree 100% about transfats. And about Skippy. And crap cereals.

I guess on organics we just differ. I said in my last post that personally I'd prefer the govt to feed 2x as many families with good non-organic food than 1x on organics. I happen to view organics as a luxury at the prices they cost. Maybe they shouldn't be, but imo they are.

Some people dont see them as luxury. That's fine. I can see your POv, but I just dont agree.

So in answering the OP, (which imo was not clear, but has been clarified in subsequent posts), I do think it 'snobbish' to view all those items as unuseable. You asked, I answered honestly - and I think quite gently. I have many of those items in my kitchen and I dont think I feed my family a crap diet. It's not 100% ideal, but neither is it crap.

In no way does this equate to saying that quality food is a prerogative of the rich. I answered the OP: I dont view all those items as crap food. I wouldnt feed my kids Skippy, but they eat cheerios, and if I couldnt afford organic eggs, they'd eat non-organic (sometimes they do). We have non-organic OJ in the fridge. There have been times in my own life when I'd have been so incredibly grateful for a basket of those things. Yes, I've been poor, I've survived on 6 bagels & a pot of cream cheese for a week (a special offer - buy the bagels, get the cheese free) or a pot of PB and a loaf of crap, (yes truly, truly crap) bread. Maybe my perspective comes from having done that. I dunno.

So my opinion of what constitutes reasonable food varies from some of you. That's not the same as saying 'let them eat crap' at all









I was actually speaking generally about the quality of food considered acceptable in the States.


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maxmama*
I was actually speaking generally about the quality of food considered acceptable in the States.

Did you mean that maybe the govt has the 'let them eat crap' mentality? In which case, I totally get what you are saying now.







(I thought you meant the general public, and those posters here who said that they don't think the OP was totally justified in her complaints. In which case I misunderstood you. Apologies.


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

It does suck. Not to mention it's probably more expensive than the healthier things they could be subsidising.

I used to trade cereals with a friend on WIC. I can't remember what it was she use to get, but I'd swap her for fresh fruit and veg.

But UGH, I've got this HUGE jar of Skippy in my cupboard from when she moved away and gave me her pantry. What do you do with a kilo of sugary peanut butter?


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## hookahgirl (May 22, 2005)

They are trying here in Ohio to do the farmers marker thing, with local food. You cant get thigns like lemons cause they arent grown here! But you cant even get herbs on it. Its a tiny step in the right direction!
http://www.fns.usda.gov/wic/FMNP/FMNPfaqs.htm


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## Starr (Mar 16, 2005)

Ok I didn't read the entire thread because usually after this long its way off topic







so I will just address the first post.

If you don't need it and you don't like what you get, then stop taking it. No one is forcing you. Its great that you don't rely on WIC to survive but for some families thats all they have. I realize some of their food choices could be greatly improved but for a majority of the mainstream population what WIC offers to them is healthy. Its great that you love organics but to me organic is a luxury. If buying organic is that important to you and your family and you wont budge then that is your decision and you need to find your own way to budget it in. WIC supplements your grocery list. So hopefully you are able to spend your own money on things you feel you need to have for your family. As for WIC itself and the food they offer, well if you gave 20 women a list and had them write out what they thought was essential, you would have 20 different lists. Whats important to you may not be to someone else. They can't tailor for you sadly.


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## corwinegall (Jul 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Starr*
Ok I didn't read the entire thread because usually after this long its way off topic







so I will just address the first post.


Maybe you should have read all the posts, the op has already been slammed and forgiven.


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## amcal (Jan 13, 2003)

I don't see anywhere she was slammed. She stated she didn't really need WIC, she complained about the food and then asked if she was being a snob. Starr was just answering her question.

And, it's not a matter of being forgiven. There is nothing to forgive. The OP asked a question and got varying points of view. Simple as that.


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## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amcal*
I don't see anywhere she was slammed. She stated she didn't really need WIC, she complained about the food and then asked if she was being a snob. Starr was just answering her question.

And, it's not a matter of being forgiven. There is nothing to forgive. The OP asked a question and got varying points of view. Simple as that.


Is it possible to get over the "need" thing? WIC is not even really about "need" since it's primary purpose is as a farm subsidy program. I wonder if General Mills "needs" WIC. That is the real question we should be asking here. Whatever the case, many families on WIC are not in poverty. A family of 5 making $40K qualifies for WIC in MI. So a lot of people are using it that would not otherwise starve. I am sure the OP is like many many others on WIC (and like me for instance). We more than qualify for it, we are WAY below the income threshhold. But we are choosing not to take it. Not because we don't "need" it. I could easily argue that we do. We go without a lot of things that most people consider essential in order to afford good food. But there are a lot of "essentials" that can go away before food for our family. Many people in low income or poverty situations are in the same boat. Simply because one can get by without it does not mean they necessarily should. If the food was not a total lobbyist checklist, I could use my WIC coupons and be able to free up money for health insurance, denists visits for the whole family, the new glasses perscription I really need, yadda yadda yadda. So lets all remember that the word "need" is very relative and I do not see how it has anything to do with the government pawning off a bunch of very unhealthy "food" to a mass of population that could reap much more benefit from truly nourishing foods.


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## richella (Nov 30, 2004)

Okay, I don't have time to read the whole debate, sorry, but I wonder if anyone pointed out yet that WIC is, first, a farm subsidy program? It's goal is to stabilize the prices of certain commodities. This is done by the government purchasing them. Then, they dispose of it in a politically and economically expedient way.

Most farm subsidies benefit agribusiness, the giant corps. who have tons of money to lobby the people in power. There is no incentive to allow WIC purchase of organic and higher quality foods.


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## corwinegall (Jul 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amcal*
I don't see anywhere she was slammed. She stated she didn't really need WIC, she complained about the food and then asked if she was being a snob. Starr was just answering her question.

And, it's not a matter of being forgiven. There is nothing to forgive. The OP asked a question and got varying points of view. Simple as that.

I thought it felt a little harsh, "beggars can't be choosers" was pretty offensive imo. But you're right, the discussion flowed, I was just saying that its all good now-that's what I ment by 'forgiven', we didn't need to bring that up again. I mostly didn't want the op to feel like someone else was getting on her case.


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## amcal (Jan 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yooper*
Is it possible to get over the "need" thing? .

I just want to be clear - it is not my place to make a judgement on whether someone needs WIC or not. The OP is the one who indicated that she didn't really need WIC.

And, for the record, I completely agree that only wholesome foods should be allowed on WIC. Foods with no transfats, without added sugar and other chemcials - I am completely in agreement with this - an no, skippy does not qualify as wholesome.

But this isn't how the OP presented herself. She stated she prefered organic almond butter (at close to $10 a jar???). She complained about milk, "regular carrots and beans" - all wholesome foods. It's those things that I have issue with.


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## Herausgeber (Apr 29, 2006)

The USDA's web site about WIC is pretty interesting. Apparantly their goal is to supplement some pretty specific nutrients (protein, iron, calcium, Vits A and C) that their target population tends to be chronically deficient in. Now, this might not be true of MDC-nutritionally-aware-type mamas, but it does make sense to me in terms of many mainstream poor mamas, including women in my family and my own situation growing up in a WIC household. Sugar, additives, etc., are just not their main concern.


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## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amcal*

But this isn't how the OP presented herself. She stated she prefered organic almond butter (at close to $10 a jar???). She complained about milk, "regular carrots and beans" - all wholesome foods. It's those things that I have issue with.

Hi. I am not trying to pick on you, this is just exactly what I am talking about. First of all, no matter how "needy" one is, they can still prefer things. They might not get them. They might even know that it is an unreasonable request. However, it is still OK to prefer them. And does anyone really think that the $1.98/jar that Skippy costs is a real cost? The $10/jar is more like what a jar of pureed nuts should cost (even if $10/ jar is really an exaggeration). What happens in that $8 difference is pretty scary.

But, lets just play devil's advocate here. Regular beans, milk, and carrots are not wholesome in everyone's opinion. Now I know as well as anyone here that there will be flying pigs and icicles in hell before the government ever does anything to support organic farming. But that does not mean we should allow the attitude that these items are "luxuries" to propogate. They are expensive. They are what the "real" cost of food is. That is how much it costs to make food that is not damaging to the environment, our bodies, the farmers, and the animals involved. If the government is suppose to be responsible for the well-being of the people that live here AND showing a good example of nutrition, then organics is where it is at. Why say "well, we need people to get vitamins x,y,and z and we really are not going to concern ourselves with any other aspect of nutrition or responsible food production"? Why not just give poor people a case of vitamin popsicles every month? This is not for lack of money. The government could easily spend the money to provide everyone with WIC comparable products that are healthier and more responsible. They could be subsidising small organic farmers which are suppose to be the "meat and potatoes" of this country rather than padding the pockets of large agribusiness that most definately has no one's best interest in mind but their own wallets.

I cracks me up that Skippy and Juicy Juice are even part of a farm subsidy program. Is any of this stuff actually grown in this country?!?!?! Where do they grow the Crisco (AKA the stuff that makes skippy so creamy)?

So I guess these sorts of attitudes that beggars shouldn't be choosey or that government programs should include substandard fair or that it is unreasonable to prefer non-hydrogenated, lower allergen nut spreads really bother me because it makes me sad for the future of this country. I realize most WIC recipients really do not have the free time to fret over what non-organic farming is doing to our world and bodies, but some can, specifically like the people on this board, we might be able to change attitudes. That could give people a chance. Kids who grow up in poverty would only benefit to have real fruit rather than juice. Real whole grains rather than cereal (AKA extruded grain slurry). Real actual nuts rather than hydrogenated sugar-frenzied Skippy. These things do not cost more and would be a real step in the right direction. But every time someone calls organics a luxury, we step further away from the right direction.

If people like us, on a NFL board cannot even agree that EVERYONE deserves accessability to good food (meaning free of preservatives, sugar, artificial anythings, pestacides, animal suffering, and Crisco) then I do have to agree that the situation is hopeless.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Starr*
Ok I didn't read the entire thread because usually after this long its way off topic







so I will just address the first post.

If you don't need it and you don't like what you get, then stop taking it. No one is forcing you. Its great that you don't rely on WIC to survive but for some families thats all they have.

I think this is another common misconception, that WIC is some sort of finite program that can only serve X number of people. In reality, the more people who utilize the WIC program, the more funding (and attention) it receives. The WIC offices around here bend over backward to sign families up because they have to have a certain level of participation.


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## steffanie3 (Mar 17, 2002)

I was on WIC at one point and just didn't get the things we didn't need or eat. You don't have to get everything on the check.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *steffanie3*
I was on WIC at one point and just didn't get the things we didn't need or eat. You don't have to get everything on the check.

This depends on the state. In some states, you do indeed have to take every single thing on the coucher.


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## rozzie'sma (Jul 6, 2005)

This is why although I qualified for WIC I refused it. I flat out told the lady to her face that I would not feed anyone in my family her highly processed crap food that she thought was healthy. ALso in Mississippi we don't get checks so all the food comes from a food pantry place, you get shelf milk for crying out loud, YICK


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