# 12 year old with computer addiction



## croft6 (Nov 13, 2015)

Im not really sure where to turn for help so im going to try this. I would like to start by saying I have 6 kids. My current challenge is my 12 year old stepson. I love this boy like he is my own. He primarily lives with his mom who allows him to play video games all day. They do not have internet. Last year for Christmas I thought it would help him in school to have a laptop. So I got him one. His mom was trying to compete and bought him a tablet. The problem is the whole time he is here he sits on his laptop or tablet. We tell him to shut it off and he goes into a mental breakdown. Storms up to him room and cries. He is normally a good kid. About a month ago I grounded him for 1 day from any electronic devices. He was acting like an addict without drugs. It was bad. I want to find a way to get him to unplug are reconnect with everybody. I don't want him to hate me, he already hates coming over. Any suggestions?


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

My ds has similar tech affinities. I refused to get into a power struggle with him over it; I didn't want to destroy our relationship over something that was clearly very important to him. And I also recognized that the more I tried to pull him away from the computer the more desperately he clung to it. It wasn't addiction; it was just a normal human reaction when you fear losing something you love. I felt that if I could avoid feeding that fear, he would stand a better chance of learning to channel and regulate his use. I also didn't want him internalizing the message that he loved something his parents thought was _bad_ for him.

In the long run I think I was successful. None of the things I did were a magic bullet that put to rest all my concerns, but these three things helped:

1. Working with him to recognize when his computer use was interfering with his health and happiness, and to develop strategies to self-regulate. Sometimes this was a question of formally logging his hours of use and pointing out to him (later, when everyone was back in a good mood) that he tended to get headaches, or have trouble sleeping, or get into blow-outs with his sister after periods of prolonged use. Sometimes it meant helping him identify what he thought was appropriate use, and supporting him in sticking with his own limits. Sometimes it was a matter of suggesting strategies for staying aware of his use when he got sucked in. One of his more successful tricks was to have an kitchen timer in an adjacent room which he would set for however long he planned to be on the computer (up to 60 minutes). When it rang, he would have to get off for 10 minutes. Often that was long enough for him to get involved in something else and not go back, but if it was only time for a bite to eat and a chat with a parent or sibling, that was something at least.

2. Creating computer-free periods of time not as punishment but as special opportunities. Camping as a family, mountain-biking for an afternoon together, a picnic dinner and board games at the gazebo at the park, an afternoon in a nearby town sight-seeing or seeing a play or doing a workshop, a weekly family movie night in the living room with popcorn.

3. Validating the good stuff you see in his computer use. If you don't see good stuff, take more of an interest, because I'm sure it's there. Notice where you see learning taking place. Encourage the aspects of his gaming and computer use that involve accumulating general knowledge, solving complicated problems, coming up with creative workarounds, tweaking and customizing things, tinkering with code, using language effectively, connecting with others in a positive way, creating his own content. If he wants to learn photo manipulation, or HTML, or modding, or game-capture machinima, or java ... help him out with research and access and support.

My ds is now 19 and excelling in a college program that combines multi-media design and computer programming. He has friends and a social life and general life skills, and is a kind person with interests outside computers. He is required to put in up to 15 hours a day of work, much of it computer-based, and knows how to handle the workload and how to balance it with other things. When he gets time off he spends it connecting with human beings and enjoying pursuits like board games, cooking and making music. I'm really glad that when he lived with us we focused on supporting his interests and helping him learn life skills like time-management and healthy living habits rather than on wrestling him away from what he loved for as many hours as we could.

Miranda


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## blessedwithboys (Dec 8, 2004)

croft6 said:


> Im not really sure where to turn for help so im going to try this. I would like to start by saying I have 6 kids. My current challenge is my 12 year old stepson. I love this boy like he is my own. He primarily lives with his mom who allows him to play video games all day. They do not have internet. Last year for Christmas I thought it would help him in school to have a laptop. So I got him one. His mom was trying to compete and bought him a tablet. The problem is the whole time he is here he sits on his laptop or tablet. We tell him to shut it off and he goes into a mental breakdown. Storms up to him room and cries. He is normally a good kid. About a month ago I grounded him for 1 day from any electronic devices. He was acting like an addict without drugs. It was bad. I want to find a way to get him to unplug are reconnect with everybody. I don't want him to hate me, he already hates coming over. Any suggestions?


I think it's awesome that you love your step-son so much, but you have no right to ground him. Not even if his dad says you can. Especially because he lives primarily with his mother. If she was not around and he lived in your home, it might be different. Since he lives with his mom (no matter what kind of parent she is) and visits in your home, you should back off and let his dad do the disciplining.


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## croft6 (Nov 13, 2015)

blessedwithboys said:


> croft6 said:
> 
> 
> > Im not really sure where to turn for help so im going to try this. I would like to start by saying I have 6 kids. My current challenge is my 12 year old stepson. I love this boy like he is my own. He primarily lives with his mom who allows him to play video games all day. They do not have internet. Last year for Christmas I thought it would help him in school to have a laptop. So I got him one. His mom was trying to compete and bought him a tablet. The problem is the whole time he is here he sits on his laptop or tablet. We tell him to shut it off and he goes into a mental breakdown. Storms up to him room and cries. He is normally a good kid. About a month ago I grounded him for 1 day from any electronic devices. He was acting like an addict without drugs. It was bad. I want to find a way to get him to unplug are reconnect with everybody. I don't want him to hate me, he already hates coming over. Any suggestions?
> ...


You make no sense. First of all he is in my home with my family's rules. Im in no way shape or form trying to take his mom's place. She happens to be my best friend and I wouldn't do that to her. However my husband and I co-parent all of are kids even the 2 that are not his. When I do ground him it's only for a day and that never goes into his mom's time.


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## croft6 (Nov 13, 2015)

moominmamma said:


> My ds has similar tech affinities. I refused to get into a power struggle with him over it; I didn't want to destroy our relationship over something that was clearly very important to him. And I also recognized that the more I tried to pull him away from the computer the more desperately he clung to it. It wasn't addiction; it was just a normal human reaction when you fear losing something you love. I felt that if I could avoid feeding that fear, he would stand a better chance of learning to channel and regulate his use. I also didn't want him internalizing the message that he loved something his parents thought was _bad_ for him.
> 
> In the long run I think I was successful. None of the things I did were a magic bullet that put to rest all my concerns, but these three things helped:
> 
> ...


Thank you for helping me look at this in a different way. I will try some of that stuff.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

croft6 said:


> She happens to be my best friend and I wouldn't do that to her. However my husband and I co-parent all of are kids even the 2 that are not his.


That doesn't jive with your first post. For one thing, you and his mom had a contest about who could get him the coolest gift. That isn't best friend behavior. Second, you used the pronoun "I" all but once in your post, instead of "we."



croft6 said:


> Last year for Christmas* I* thought it would help him in school to have a laptop. So* I* got him one. His mom was trying to compete and bought him a tablet. The problem is the whole time he is here he sits on his laptop or tablet. We tell him to shut it off and he goes into a mental breakdown. Storms up to him room and cries. He is normally a good kid. About a month ago *I *grounded him for 1 day from any electronic devices. He was acting like an addict without drugs. It was bad. *I *want to find a way to get him to unplug are reconnect with everybody. *I *don't want him to hate me, he already hates coming over. Any suggestions?


So five "I" statements to one "we" statement. You never mention discussing any of this with his father. Your post doesn't reflect co-parenting. It reflects step mom handling everything, while dad is .....????

I totally agree that you need to take a giant step back on discipline. He hates coming to your home. His dad needs to seriously step up the parenting when he is around, including spending quality one-on-one time with him.

When we had computer over-use at our house, we created "computer free times" such as meals, board games, family outings. We kept all computers in our bedroom after a certain time at night. We didn't, however, nag the kids to go do something else, set a limit as to how much time they could have on the computer, etc.


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

I think that moominmamma had some really great thoughts. I just wanted to add that, as parents, even though we generally fear technology and limit our kids' access to it, computer time, even something as inane sounding as playing video games or surfing the net, will have tremendous benefits to kids in the long run. Anything that increases their acceptance of and comfort level with technology will be of great benefit to them. As an IT person, I can tell you that we are barreling into the future and people who can leverage technology, even if they're not in IT, will have a huge advantage in their jobs and home life.

So, I don't think there's anything wrong with seeing the benefits of his passion and helping him channel it. Maybe he would be interested in some of the coding programs for kids - he's just the right age, there are online courses, and learning the concepts behind coding isn't required at that age, but holy cow! The benefits to him long-term could be huge. Maybe he'd like to set up a Minecraft server. I bet he'd love it if you guys played a cooperative video game together! My son is into video games and we've had some outrageously good times playing Minecraft and Borderlands together.

I think it's also important to talk about why being off the computer is important, too. How online friends can be important, but they will never replace real life friends; how computer time can seem really important and fun, but activities with the family are always top priority. But he's almost at that puberty age where he's trying to form his own identity and that means being alone and away from family members sometimes.

Good luck to you in your search for balance in this situation, I'm sure it must be a tightrope!


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## nonuser (Jul 6, 2015)

My two girls are the same way with the computer/ Nintendo DS/ TV. I just do the best I can with limiting the time they spend on technology. My husband installed a program that is supposed to give the girls an hour each on their computer account, but it doesn't always work. I have to MAKE them go outside and play. We try to go on a two-hour walk to the park on Fridays. It's just something we have to enforce.

On weeknights they tend to be pretty busy anyway with piano practice and homework, but they would be in front of a screen all the time if I let them.

No good advice here but you are surely not alone.


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## Mackenzie82 (Sep 17, 2015)

Hi I have just joined the forum and this is the first post I have commented on. My daughter is 12 and was diagnosed on the autistic spectrum 4 years ago after an 18 month process. In the last few weeks I have been looking in to PDA as it seems to be much more accurate and a much better match to her behaviour. She was addicted to Minecraft for a few years it was awful, she stopped playing out and just used to shout 'get out of my room I want to hear the door click. She wanted all the add ons and used to create books about it


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## gooseysmama (Jul 23, 2006)

I can understand you concerns. While there is a need for technology in their future careers, the learning curve for any of that is small and will change drastically by the time they get to that point. There is plenty of time for our kids to "learn" technology...and they become adept at it quite fast.

My 12yo daughter would be addicted to her computer/devices if we allowed it, as well. We very much limit her time on any electronic device....our house, our rules. When she is on her own, she can make those choices for herself. In the meantime, we are responsible for helping her grow into the adult who is all she can be.

We have been getting her outdoors more by taking the kids "exploring" (if we call it hiking, she doesn't want to go, lol). Both of my girls become completely different people when we get them out on the trails.

You are definitely not alone. And our culture doesn't make it easy to fight the battle.


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## asnmdirteha (Nov 8, 2014)

It is definitely difficult to have time to unplug since I can only imagine how often kids use electronics now compared to before. I think having set family time is definitely the best route. If you try to restrict them they usually rebel. I've seen it in my ex-boyfriend of 24 who is addicted to his PS4. Being connected triggers a brain response to happiness which is why we continually do it. I would definitely utilize family time since he is still in middle school. In the future they will look back on these family memories not what their friend posted on FB and Instagram on such time, date, month, year.


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## joshparker (Jan 15, 2016)

*I hate Computers.*

Computer and technology has just ruined many children. I have a son at home who is just 5 and he can't live without mobile and computer. This annoys me. Moreover he watches cartoons atleast 5 hours a day. But now I have just excluded the cartoon channels from my TV package. My next mission is to do something with the computer.


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

I'd like to suggest that anyone who is views the "excessive" (however defined) use of computers as an addiction similar to drug addiction critically examine their assumptions about drug addiction. Have a look at this overview of the Rat Park experiments and the conclusions about the nature of addiction that can be drawn from them.

The tldr; version:

Rats in cages exhibit strong addictive behaviour when offered drugs. Rats put in a park-like setting with various social opportunities and freedom to explore exhibit almost no addictive behaviour when offered the very same drugs.

These observations cast a very different light on drug addition. They show that demonizing the drugs is a band-aid-like approach that doesn't address the underlying causes. The experiment suggests that the underlying causes are primarily socio-economic, the "socio" part of that including things like marginalization, discrimination, poverty, institutionalization and so on.

So if computer addiction is related to other forms of addiction, the message here is to examine what it is about the addicted person's life that is analogous to the caged rats' lives. Is there a lack of freedom to explore, to self-determine, to socialize freely? Is the environment too restricted, too limited? Is there an atmosphere of powerlessness, a lack of autonomy, a lack of opportunity to self-regulate activity and interactions?

Miranda


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

What you are saying is so true, and all the more reason I am slightly worried about my sons' extensive use of the ipad.
There is no back yard, nowhere for them to go in winter, aside from the occasional playdate where parents have to take them. Its hard when they come home, and all they look foward to doing is playing on the ipad. Extra curricular activities always seem to take second priority to minecraft. 
If we had a backyard, that might be different, but whadayagonnado when it comes to innercity living?



moominmamma said:


> I'd like to suggest that anyone who is views the "excessive" (however defined) use of computers as an addiction similar to drug addiction critically examine their assumptions about drug addiction. Have a look at this overview of the Rat Park experiments and the conclusions about the nature of addiction that can be drawn from them.
> 
> The tldr; version:
> 
> ...


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

While I greatly value time in the outdoors, I think it's important not to take the "park" part of Rat Park too literally. If you compare lab cages to Rat Park, the major differences were in the variety and amount of social and sensory input available, and in freedom to alter one's interaction with one's surroundings. I think there were some natural materials in the actual Rat Park, but if I recall it actually looked a lot like a miniature urban housing development with all sorts of rat-apartments. 

If I lived in an inner city environment with my kids, I guess I'd try to give them as much freedom and opportunity as I could to shape their own interactions with their physical and social environment. I'd try to avoid controls and limits, I'd ensure they had plenty of down-time and a range of opportunities for social, physical, creative and contemplative activities. If I had kids who wanted to do nothing other than sit on a computer, I'd ask myself two questions:

1. Is their use of technology perhaps more social, creative and intellectually challenging than I'm giving it credit for? ... and if not

2. How can I empower and enrich the rest of their life so that technology isn't the only draw.

I don't entirely buy that computer use is "addictive" in the sense that drugs and such are addictive. But if, for the sake of argument, we accept that it is, I think it's worth looking deeper into the whole idea of addiction and questioning the common assumption that the addictive substance is the root cause of the affliction.

Miranda


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## Alexander Wiesenthal (Feb 5, 2016)

Go out with him for a week, on the mountains or something similiar!


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## Snydley (Feb 22, 2012)

> I don't entirely buy that computer use is "addictive" in the sense that drugs and such are addictive. But if, for the sake of argument, we accept that it is, I think it's worth looking deeper into the whole idea of addiction and questioning the common assumption that the addictive substance is the root cause of the affliction.


Neurology research is showing that internet/screen use rewires neural networks, causing users brains to look and perform differently. It's too much information at once, overloading what is called "working memory" and causing loss of focus and dramatic attention issues, among other problems. I spend a lot of time on a computer for work and started to notice I have difficulty paying attention to novels, even to people telling me involved stories face-to-face. I highly recommend the book "The Shallows: What the internet is doing to our brains" by Nicolas Carr.

Addiction is defined as: 

a strong and harmful need to regularly have something (such as a drug) or do something (such as gamble)
 : an unusually great interest in something or a need to do or have something
The stories I have read here on Mothering and heard/seen in real life unequivocally indicate that computer use is addictive. Quite frankly, I'm disturbed by the all the kids, young and older, constantly on their screens and missing out on the all the rest of life because of it. This is true of many adults as well.

I am a parent, like many on Mothering, that believes kids should be given as much freedom as possible. On this issue, my 8yo DD is allowed 2 hours a day using a screen (besides homework). This is the AAP recommendation for her age group, and I feel that 2 hours is plenty of time to enjoy TV/video games. This is the one relatively rough rule in our house (I don't time it to the minute, however.) 
When she gets older and has her own phone I obviously won't have this rule anymore, but I'm considering having her read sections of the "The Shallows" and similar passages as a pre-phone requirement so that she is informed before she has a screen in her pocket at all times.


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

Snydley said:


> Neurology research is showing that internet/screen use rewires neural networks, causing users brains to look and perform differently.


But again, just to play devil's advocate ... this is also the definition of learning. If we're talking about, say, learning to walk after a stroke, or learning another language, or taking up piano study we'd also see "rewiring of neural networks" and brains performing differently. Simply being able to see and measure changes in the brain isn't in and of itself evidence of harm.



Snydley said:


> Addiction is defined as:
> 
> a strong and harmful need to regularly have something (such as a drug) or do something (such as gamble)
> : an unusually great interest in something or a need to do or have something


Addiction in the sense of drug addiction -- the clinical definition -- requires the presence of four factors: compulsion and harm (as outlined in the first colloquial definition above) and also tolerance and withdrawal. Tolerance means that larger and larger exposures are required to get a desirable effect, and withdrawal means there are negative physiological effects when the addictive stimulus is removed. We don't really see either of those with screen time: a child still gets pleasure from a half-hour show, or from playing a game for a short period, and I don't think we see an identifiable physiological withdrawal syndrome (eg. increased blood pressure, sleep disturbances, digestive troubles, hormone changes, tremors, etc.).

If we call into question that idea that brain changes equal harm, and disqualify ordinary childhood stuff like not finishing homework, being late for bed or getting into trouble for breaking rules, then we may really only left with compulsion. Compulsions can definitely be behavioural problems, but they're not addictions in and of themselves.

I'm not saying your approach with your kids isn't healthy and appropriate for your family. I'm not saying screen-time isn't something parents should be mindful of. And I'm not saying screen-time never contributes to or exacerbates problems in families or with children.

I'm just saying that demonizing screen-time as unhealthy by nature can be problematic. Why? Because many children love the creative, aesthetic and intellectual enjoyment they get from screens, and consistent subtle messages from their parents that they love something that is inherently evil can really mess with a child's self-concept.

Miranda


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

My son just turned 13 and he also splits his time between two households. Each house has a different set of rules about computer use. I made a rule about four years ago that my son cannot have screen time in the morning before school. I told him that I noticed that the promise of screen time made him get up earlier and not go back to sleep until his alarm, that it made him cheat himself out of his breakfast because he wanted the time to use his device, and that it made him forget to put on his socks. I told him he could have morning screen time one day a week (because I also don't let him use a computer at all on Saturdays.)

He sticks with that rule, because he understood why I made it. He's also developed the ability to switch off his device and do homework on days when things are totally unregulated. (He still forgets to put on his socks. Who knows what is up with that.)

I also created a hierarchy of approbation about screen use. I rated playing outdoors with other people and no screens at the top, then playing indoors with other people and no screens, then playing with other people through the medium of screens, then playing on the computer alone, and then, at the bottom, watching other people on videos. (He often enjoys watching other people PLAY GAMES on videos!) This rating system conforms to my son's habits of mind. He loves this kind of rule-based system. When I was a kid, I would have hated to have my mom develop such a systemic way of rating what I liked to do. He's a different type of kid than I was. Being a mom is trippy.

Being a stepmom is trippier. You need to think both about how the child thinks and what makes him respond, and also about the other household where he spends more of his time. Probably in your shoes, and this is really based on having Logic Boy as my son (Captain Optimism and Logic Boy! Making the universe safe for democracy!) I would talk to him about what you observe. He gets melty and grouchy when he has too much screen time. He gets melty and grouchy when you ask him to get off the screen.

Tell him you want to set a limit and you want his help figuring out how to do that, since he's 12 and already in the process of learning to set his own limits. The limit might look like, "Once I have finished all my homework, I can do whatever I want on the computer for an hour. Then I'll take a walk around the block to reset my brain." Or it could be, "I won't exceed [some amount of time] on the computer every day." Or, "I will use the computer but I'm also going to set [another non-computer goal, like books per year or running] so that the computer doesn't take over." Help him come up with something reasonable.


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## Snydley (Feb 22, 2012)

> Originally Posted by *Snydley*  _Neurology research is showing that internet/screen use rewires neural networks, causing users brains to look and perform differently._
> 
> But again, just to play devil's advocate ... this is also the definition of learning. If we're talking about, say, learning to walk after a stroke, or learning another language, or taking up piano study we'd also see "rewiring of neural networks" and brains performing differently. Simply being able to see and measure changes in the brain isn't in and of itself evidence of harm.


 No, it isn't. This concept of neuroplasticity is now well established (albeit somewhat recently) and basically means that we are not as hard-wired as we previously thought and yes, altering how we experience things actually changes how our mind works. It the sentence of mine after the one that you quoted that indicates the harm from screen use. Overload of working memory leads to an inability to focus, poor retention of what one is absorbing, and another key point I failed to mention, this over-stimulation is believed to disable our ability to make larger connections between different concepts, etc. and it is these larger connections that help us to frame our beliefs, ethics, grasp larger paradigms and come up with novel, creative ideas.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Snydley*  _Addiction is defined as:
> 
> a strong and harmful need to regularly have something (such as a drug) or do something (such as gamble)
> ...


I wasn't trying to parallel screen use with drug addiction per se, simply a standard definition of addiction (which is plenty bad enough). I can understand the point of a child being really passionate about one thing/activity (skateboarding, for example) and this looking like addiction but it's really just what they love. Therefore, one could argue that some kids really love video games/computers the way other kids love sports. So I pose this: family #1 has a 10 year old that skateboards every day for hours before/after school, and family #2 has a kid the same age who uses screens for many many hours a day. Family #1 travels to New York City for the weekend, Family #2 decides to spend a weekend in a cabin in the woods with zero screen use. Which child will fair better on their trip? I believe that the screen kids will be FAR more likely to lose it completely. I live in New England, we were getting a huge storm years ago, and our friends bought a generator because they felt that their 7 year old (who has no screen limits and is nearly always on some device) would completely LOSE IT if they lost power. Now, that is a bit of an extreme example (but true!), but IMO no child who is 'passionate' about anything else would have parents who would react that way. Nothing sucks them in like screens, their social/emotional development suffer as a result a lot of the time, not to mention the speech delays in younger kids, I could go on and on.

That said, we aren't screen free by any means, and I don't demonize it. I appreciate moominmamma's points. But I am convinced that too much of it is a problem for everyone, young and old.


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## kathymuggle (Jul 25, 2012)

croft6 said:


> Im not really sure where to turn for help so im going to try this. I would like to start by saying I have 6 kids. My current challenge is my 12 year old stepson. I love this boy like he is my own. He primarily lives with his mom who allows him to play video games all day. They do not have internet. Last year for Christmas I thought it would help him in school to have a laptop. So I got him one. His mom was trying to compete and bought him a tablet. The problem is the whole time he is here he sits on his laptop or tablet. We tell him to shut it off and he goes into a mental breakdown. Storms up to him room and cries. He is normally a good kid. About a month ago I grounded him for 1 day from any electronic devices. He was acting like an addict without drugs. It was bad. I want to find a way to get him to unplug are reconnect with everybody. I don't want him to hate me, he already hates coming over. Any suggestions?


I have not read the other response.

My son used screen very heavily from about 12-15. Part of it was that he did not have much else going on, but part of it was he genuinely enjoyed them. He still games a tiny bit, but nothing like the early teen years! It seems really common for some kids to go through a high tech involvement phase, I would not overly worry. You already says he does not like coming over, so I would not push the screen thing. I may make a few things screen-free, such as family dinner....but that is it.

If his grades are acceptable, he has friends, and is generally making good choice in other regards I would ease up and let it go. My 2 cents.

Now I am off to read the other replies!

K.


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

My son kicked me because he had to get off the ipad after playing on it for an hour. He was playing a star wars game. I wanted him to get off, because we had a friend over. We had discussed the terms, and he agreed to them. ie he could play on the ipad for a hour, but would socialize when the friend came over.

Screen activities that give a frequent dopamine burst by clicking on icons, but yield no results other than the dopamine burst, are acting the like an addictive substance. The dopamine is designed as a reward to encourage the same behavior that is beneficial to the organism-like eating, urinating, sleeping, but when the behavior is detrimental to the organism, you have the basis for addiction. 

But screens offer so much more, really, they do everything for us nowadays. I cant even be a competent parent anymore without my screen. I trust what i get on the internet more than any professional when it comes to almost any issue.
Our school communicates almost uniquely by email now. Even the school contracts are signed online. Im doing most of my shopping online. Did I mention phonecalls? 

I put up a fight-the fight against seeing my kids define their lives around computer/ipad games. There are pro and cons, but there are definitely cons, and I feel like its a tidal wave coming at me.

I fight by demanding other activities that use their brain differently and more constructively. We do auditory processing exercises ( to flex their auditory functions since screens overuse their visual processing at the expense of all others) 
I want them to practise focus and intention. They focus by learning something, committing something to memory and not relying on the screen for everything. Intention-going to the screen with an intention to discover/solve/create. rather than letting the screen do this for them. Or...going to a book...or, any other thing. The point is-to have an intention, to engage in a project.

This is a doozy of an uphill battle. 

I believe anything can be addictive. Screens most certainly can but that does not make them bad. It just makes them a dangerous force to contend with.

I notice i learn less efficiently with a screen because I am only looking/scanning, and not stopping to focus and memorize. 

OTOH, once having learned something, going back to the screen to get a youtube explanation of something can be very rewarding 
(my kids were learning 'precambrian' as a concept and as a word per se (for auditory processing) , and then we went to youtube and witnessed what precambrian earth actually looked like. (I highly recommend checking it out on youtube)
We learn poems and songs (by reciting /reading them word for word) then we go to youtube and hear people singing those songs/reciting poems.....

So I'm not against screens anymore than I'm against money. How to harness than power to their benefit, that is the question....

As my father pointed out...they certainly read fewer books....

(sorry for the ramble...there is so much going on with this question)


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## sillysapling (Mar 24, 2013)

moominmamma said:


> Addiction in the sense of drug addiction -- the clinical definition -- requires the presence of four factors: compulsion and harm (as outlined in the first colloquial definition above) and also tolerance and withdrawal. Tolerance means that larger and larger exposures are required to get a desirable effect, and withdrawal means there are negative physiological effects when the addictive stimulus is removed. We don't really see either of those with screen time: a child still gets pleasure from a half-hour show, or from playing a game for a short period, and I don't think we see an identifiable physiological withdrawal syndrome (eg. increased blood pressure, sleep disturbances, digestive troubles, hormone changes, tremors, etc.).


http://healthland.time.com/2013/02/...s-suffer-withdrawal-symptoms-like-drug-users/


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

Yes I've read that study. It's very small, and involves survey-style self-reporting, so it's scientifically weak to start with. It found that it was people with schizoid personality disorder, autism and depression traits who were more likely to have problematic internet use (which is completely unsurprising to me: people who have "issues" are likely to find those issues affecting various parts of their lives, including internet use. And it was these people -- with pre-existing developmental / mood / personality issues and concomitant problematic internet use -- who were likely to experience negative feelings after using the internet for 15 minutes. Which to me is like taking a bunch of people with OCD, observing that they felt short-term relief followed by rebound in their anxiety after washing their hands, and drawing the conclusion that hand-washing is addictive. In other words, maybe they're looking at people with pre-existing conditions who are finding some relief by distracting themselves with internet use, and noticing that after the distraction is gone, they feel crappy again. 

And ... "internet use" in young adults ... What does that specifically mean? I highly doubt it's the same from a brain/learning/cognitive standpoint as a 12-year-old playing RTS or MMORPG or sandbox games. 

The scientist in me resists generalizing conclusions about the all use of screens by all age groups based on a tiny study with very specific observations about specific subgroups of the population.

Miranda


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## sillysapling (Mar 24, 2013)

Yes, other conditions can exacerbate it and they're also more likely to lead to unhealthy internet use. (internet is a wonderful coping mechanism) (and by wonderful I mean dangerous) It doesn't dismiss the fact that internet use can become very unhealthy and damaging. And I'm not impressed with parents' ability to recognize mental health issues in their kids, so "but my kid is healthy" isn't really going to hold a ton of water unless you've got a psychiatrist to back you up. 

Nevermind that puberty is a minefield to begin with and "Hey, let's let kids have a massively dangerous form of escapism readily available to them 24/7" isn't really the greatest way to handle it. 

We live in a society where too many people are literally attached to the internet from the second they wake up to the second they go to sleep, and where they really cannot function without it. We can't get around without the internet. We can't maintain friendships without it. It's impacting our memory. Cars are now being made so that people can be constantly attached to their phones and internet while driving without getting into crashes because who can go a whole 10 minutes without checking their texts? Be realistic, car manufacturers!

I don't really care if it's not an addiction the way that cocaine or sugar are. People are letting technology take over their lives and are becoming entirely dependent on it in a very bad way. And kids are NOT immune to it. It's letting bullying take on dangerous new forms, kids are becoming more vulnerable to predators. It's a bad thing and if someone is legitimately concerned about a 12 year old who's using the computer too much- they're right to be.


(and in the OP's case, I do agree that the OP needs to step back and let the child's actual parents deal with it, but plenty of step parents have had to bite their tongues til they bled while the bio parents allowed the kids to develop very unhealthy habits)


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

Yes, I agree. Whether it's an addiction or not, whether it's a symptom of a problem or a problem in and of itself, deal with the problem.

I like clarity in language, because I think it can help elucidate *where* the issue is, and help address it, help deal with the complexities, rather than over-generalizing and thinking there's one answer to the whole ball of wax. Life is rarely that simple.

Until very recently my town didn't have cell service. When they finally installed a tower here, it was already the 3G/$100-smartphone era, so uptake was immediate and widespread. So I remember this pretty abrupt change well. Five years ago if you wanted to get in touch with a friend immediately and they weren't answering their land line, you'd actually have to phone around to mutual friends to try to find them, or walk or drive around town looking for places they might be. There was something really 'connected' about not being electronically connected, because you would encounter people you weren't necessarily intending to run into, often just random neighbours, and talk to them and chat about what they're up to. On the other hand, I have a whole new set of people in my community whom I interact with, and a whole new set of really worthwhile community projects that I never would have got connected to in the absence of mobile technology... things like outdoor fitness clubs and anti-poverty alliances and sustainable food movements, people like church-lady-activists and disabled shut-ins. So ... you win some and you lose some.

Miranda


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## mumto1 (Feb 17, 2016)

We are in a similar situation here. My son has ALWAYS been susceptible to electronic distraction and button pushing. For him it is like a disability or addiction. It had NOTHING to do with having no other options. He finds so many things a struggle and pushing buttons and flashing lights are so easy. He is always looking for the quickest result, the easiest path. When he was little he didn't have lot of computer time but if I tried to severely curtail it he would turn to something else like the otherwise innocuous leappad. It all started when he was a baby (maybe 1.5) and his great aunt gave him his first battery operated toy. He would become so invested in pushing buttons he would do nothing else and I would have to hide the toy so we could do anything else at all. The easiest thing I find is to just tell him what days he may use the computer, (and I'm thinking now we'll have to cut back to only after dinner) and what days he can't, homework be damned. I really wish they did not have to use computers for homework, for French, he just types English into a translator. And yes, I have been physically assaulted too when I try to get him to stop. I used to do web sites for a living and I can tell anyone that tries to argue that they need tech experience for the future that is nonsense. Technology is changing all the time. We've been dealing with serious computer issues in our house for about 10 years and he has not learned how to keep things in balance, he prioritises computer time over practically every other single thing in his life, refusing even to leave the house if he thinks he will get more computer time. And I did try testing him to see if he could practice self limitation and he pretty much can't. Although he's slightly better now. In the past he wouldn't eat, drink, or go to the washroom if he was on the computer. When he tries to get out of school by claiming illness, sick or no he is not allowed to go on a computer. Would I like to be supportive of something he loves? Sure. But it's sickening for me to see how much he isn't living his life with actual people, or learning real things or having any kind of real life experiences at all.


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

mumto1 said:


> I can tell anyone that tries to argue that they need tech experience for the future that is nonsense. Technology is changing all the time.


I have a somewhat different take on this, because a large part of what I do these days is try to help people who haven't kept up with technology over the last decade make sense of newer tools. Yes, the details are changing all the time, but there are some fundamentals about the architecture of information technology that change more slowly and build on each other. If you miss one or more of those changes, it can be hard to make sense of all the newer stuff.

For example, for the past three weeks I've been trying to get a group of older people comfortable using Slack, the cloud-based team-messaging and file-sharing tool. Those who own smartphones, or use cloud storage, or have online photo galleries, or adminster Facebook groups, they pick Slack up in one short session; they have good tech intuition, and they understand the broader idea of cloud messaging. But those who haven't made an effort to stay current with technology are really struggling. There are two people in the group who were actually really tech-savvy back in about 2001. Back then they were part of a community group that built webpages from scratch using HTML in text editors and uploaded them with FTP clients to URLs (laden with tildes!). I was part of the same group, and they were pretty slick at the time. But these guys are taking about ten times longer to understand Slack than those who continued to press forward in the tech world. They've missed the evolution of concepts like multi-platform sync'ing, sharing permissions, cloud backup, pairing of devices, the difference between wifi and mobile network, these sorts of broad ideas.

Obviously one doesn't need to be using digital technology for hours a day from toddlerhood to pick up these broad new concepts. But I think that beginning by early adolescence at the latest, ongoing exposure to current technology allows one to continually internalize the broader shifts in technological architecture. Yes, it's always changing; memorizing CorelDraw's keyboard shortcuts isn't likely to be helpful in five years. But unless you make an effort to stay current-ish, your intuition and self-teaching abilities will suffer and you may end up hopelessly behind like my Slack-challenged crew.

Miranda


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## mumto1 (Feb 17, 2016)

*I guess I'm one of them*

But I haven't had any reason to use that stuff either and nothing I currently do requires me to use it. I grew up in an a time when home or office computers were not even a reality, cell phones did not exist. I hand wrote most of my university essays. I was able to teach myself what I needed to know. So my beef is people thinking that immersing kids in computer tech is necessary for learning. Ironically, my son plays a game based on history and building worlds and he nearly failed geography and history this term. He is not a dumb kid, he was tested for giftedness last year. Whatever is "educational" about the games he plays isn't helping him at school at all.


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

mumto1 said:


> I grew up in an a time when home or office computers were not even a reality, cell phones did not exist. I hand wrote most of my university essays. I was able to teach myself what I needed to know.


Likewise. But it requires a concerted effort to learn, and the difference is that nowadays computer literacy is essential for those entering higher education, wanting to participate in a mainstream young adult social life, and for a huge portion of the job market.

Obviously one can learn curriculum-oriented academic content more effectively from attentive work with curriculum-oriented tasks than from random video games. I was just trying to make the point staying abreast of current developments in technology is what will enable one to easily master upcoming developments as they occur.

Miranda


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

Whether it be addictions or just 'bad habits', this article offers advice on how to combat them using mindfulness:

http://www.businessinsider.com/psychiatrist-mindfulness-is-the-best-way-to-break-a-bad-habit-2016-2

Maybe we just need to teach our kids mindfulness if we observe behaviors that are turning into bad habits. (where the threshold lies between addiction and bad habit is another question)

I also really appreciate Miranda's posts detailing a contemporary use of screens that even former techies might not be accustomed to. In other words, keeping up with technology is a new task that is essential to parents bearing in mind that this task gets exponentially larger as technology evolves at an exponentially greater pace.
In this way, we can more easily distinguish the good and the bad when it comes to our kids' use of screens, and to hone its power to our advantage.

So, be mindful of bad habits and embrace technology. And the third crucial point- accept that this is your job as a parent, whether you like it or not.....

They told me breastfeeding was important, but they never told me this when I had my baby....


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