# Killer Mei Tai Experience at Sushi Restaurant



## Past_VNE

DH, Jett and I went to South Street Philadelphia the other day. We went to a Japanese restaurant for some bubble tea and while we were waiting for it to be made, an older Asian man came up and in his beautiful accent said to me,

"Ahhhh, you have ancient Chinese baby carrier. People in China carry on back (gesture), people in US carry on front (gesture). They think back bad for babies. It is not. (shakes head)"

I said, "Yes, it is bad for babies' legs to dangle like in US carriers."

He said, "Americans not know this. How you know this?"

I replied, "I read on the internet about how bad it is for their backs if the weight in right here (gesturing like I'm cupping a babies crotch).

He nods and I say, "He really loves to ride back there. He loves to look all around and also he sleeps well when he is in it."

The conversation probably had a few other moments, but that was the gist of it.

I just loved how he said in his accent, (use your imagination here...) "ancient chinese baby carrier."































It was SUCH a great moment.


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## ashleep

Quote:

I just loved how he said in his accent, (use your imagination here...) "ancient chinese baby carrier."

Ahhh yes, I love that accent! How cool!


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## Quindin

That's so cool!!
Which MT did you have on??


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## Trishas Tribe

What a great experience







:


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## mommybritt

Very cool!


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## Past_VNE

As for the mei tai, it's a My Bei Bei one. I bought it from eBay. Her website, www.mybeibei.com doesn't have anything for sale yet, but I LOVE it. It's a little heavy for the hot days, but it's soooo great.

I'll get DH to take some photos when Jett is awake and I'll post them here.


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## sunshinegal

Where did you read about certain positioning being bad for their backs? I would love that info


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## melissabel

Kaire at Freehand Baby now stocks My Bei Bei carriers, if anyone is looking for one.

Melissa


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## Quindin

I thought a MyBeiBei was a Podegi - not a MT...


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## mahdokht

Yeah, I love it when I get attention from random ethnic people too. It's especially charming when they have quaint accents and wear their native dress.


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## Past_VNE

The My Bei Beis for sale by Kaire at Freehand ARE podaegis, or at least podaegi-ish.

This one, I got on eBay and is definitely a mei tai.
*
Here was the auction!*


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## karisaf

That is very cool!


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## Quindin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Past_VNE*
The My Bei Beis for sale by Kaire at Freehand ARE podaegis, or at least podaegi-ish.

This one, I got on eBay and is definitely a mei tai.
*
Here was the auction!*

OMG









Did you get that one??

It is GORGEOUS and it is such a great price!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## guerrillamama

Past_VNE, I tried really hard to think of some way to put this diplomatically, and then I realized I may as well just shoot straight, as I would if we were talking irl.

I think you are stereotyping and exotifying Asian people, and it's not cool. Our accents and culture are not cutesy knicknacks for the amusement of white people. Your post really really bugged me.


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## Potty Diva

Quote:

I just loved how he said in his accent, (use your imagination here...) "ancient chinese baby carrier."
HA! Oh yeah, just like that 70's laundry detergent commercial! I'm glad to see American's stereotyping of Asians as changed so dramatically....NOT!


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## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mahdokht*
Yeah, I love it when I get attention from random ethnic people too. It's especially charming when they have quaint accents and wear their native dress.

OMGoodness. At first I thought this was serious. I was so confused (which has generally been my reaction to this whole thread) then I realized who the poster was.







:


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## Past_VNE

Sheesh folks...chill out. I figured I would ignore the sarcasm last night, but I may as well go ahead and respond.

I guess it's bad that I adore my dad's girlfriends Aussie accent, too? Maybe she should be offended that I enjoy listening to her speak for her thoughts, her opinions AND her way of speaking? That's just silly.

I love cultural diversity and that is why I found this man's different perspective so appealing. I consider it neither quaint nor cutesy.

It's really a shame that you feel the need to be offended at my pleasure in variety.

I can't say I'm surprised, but saddened that you mamas can't share my experience. There is nothing bad about enjoying the conversation. I promise.


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## girlndocs

Good lord, VNE, you had a person of ASIAN DESCENT telling you she was offended by the way you told your story and you still can't take a step back and examine why it might have been offensive?


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## merpk

Yeah. That.


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## slightly crunchy

Well, I'll just pipe in that I'm not of Asian descent myself nor particularly PC, but it bothered me, too.

I am sure it was a nice moment though. It's always so cool when someone comments on babywearing and gets it!


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## mollyeilis

Well, my husband is (half) Korean, and he would have enjoyed the situation in exactly the same way as the OP did.

It's just plain old NICE to get validation from people that you're doing a good thing, and since so many people are caught up in the bland American way of doing things, usually those compliments will come from older people who perhaps are originally from those countries.

Heck, when I was in Ireland, I had people listening to my "cute" American accent...I thought they were crazy, but wasn't offended!


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## Quindin

People think I have a cute latino-accent too







- I don't particularly mind though









I remember when Americans came to visit us in Brazil when we were little and I was just fascinated by their American accent when they spoke Portuguese - we loved it and thought it sounded cute too







:


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## Mothernature

When I'm traveling people like to comment on my "cute" southern accent and I'm not bothered either. I can sort of see how the OP may have come off a little stereotypical, but that was not the intent of her post. I can tell by the tone, not just her follow-up post defending herself. Maybe it's a southern thing to give people the benefit of the doubt.


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## Potty Diva

Mothernature~ You're kidding right? It is far from southern nature to give people the benefit of the doubt, oh that is priceless!


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## Mothernature

Potty Diva- do you know many southerners or is that just a stereotype?


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## Potty Diva

Yes, after 7 years of living in NC, I know many southerners, and communicate daily with them. Giving the benefit of the doubt to people they consider strangers is NOT their strong suit.


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## Mothernature

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Potty Diva*
Yes, after 7 years of living in NC, I know many southerners, and communicate daily with them. Giving the benefit of the doubt to people they consider strangers is NOT their strong suit.

Oh, you just aren't far enough south.

I'm curious how a thread about Past_VNE's charming experience with a babywearing advocate turned into a cultural sensitivity debate.


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## User101

I wandered across it in new posts and thought it was about mixed drinks.


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## AngelBee

Very cool!


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## AngelBee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
I wandered across it in new posts and thought it was about mixed drinks.











Shoot.....I spilled my margarita!


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## AngelBee

Wow......now that I read the whole thread









Relax people!!! Half of my family sounds like a freakin mob.....I am Italian. Our accents are cute! As are my Vietnamese friends accents. And my American friends accents. And my South African friends accents. And my Russian friends accents. You get the point!

Gesh!!! A thread celibrating babywearing......not bashing on ethnic groups!







: Relax....


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## User101

AngelBee, when people perceive stereotyping, I don't think they need to relax. I think they need to try to get to the bottom of things.


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## AngelBee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
AngelBee, when people perceive stereotyping, I don't think they need to relax. I think they need to try to get to the bottom of things.

Then people should pm her privately and ask her to clarify her op.

It doesn't have to pulled through the mud on the thread and make it seem like she intentionally used him for her own entertainment.

She was flattered by this man. She felt validated by his comments.

I do not believe she in anyway tried to stereotype. She was just describing the scene as she saw it.


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## the_lissa

I firmly believe things like this need to be hashed out on the main boards, so other people can benefit and possibly learn as well.

People were offended. That needs to be addressed, not brushed aside.


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## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngelBee*
Then pm her privately and ask her to clarify her op.

You don't have to drag it through the mud on the thread and make it seem like she intentionally used him for her own entertainment.

She was flattered by this man. She felt validated by his comments.

I do not believe she in anyway tried to stereotype. She was just describing the scene as she saw it.

First of all, you seem to be directing your comment at me. I didn't say anything, and don't really appreciate being singled out.

Secondly, being dragged through the mud is a pretty subjective thing. Is asking someone what they meant dragging them through the mud? Asking for clarification?

Thirdly, the nature of discussion boards is to discuss. I must not have gotten the memo that said we were only allowed to validate, and never question. If that were so, then by all rights you should have PM'd the people you took issue with, rather than telling everyone to relax, instead of dragging them through the mud.


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## AngelBee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
First of all, you seem to be directing your comment at me. I didn't say anything, and don't really appreciate being singled out.










NO.....not at all singling you out. Sorry if I worded that wrong.

I editted the post to try and clarify...sorry again.


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## AngelBee

What I mean is that she did not post to start a debate.....she just wanted to tell about something exciting that happened to her. KWIM?

She did not intend to get people fired up.....just wanted to share her cool story.

I feel bad that the thread took a huge twist and is making the op out to be racist or something....


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## User101

Sometimes threads go that way, I guess. I think the best we can do is face things head on and hash them out.


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## Summertime Mommy

First off, what a great experience for you! It is great to get positive comments about baby carriers.

I am not of Asian descent, but my ds is and his father are, and I have been sitting here thinking about the comments in this thread. At first I thought, why would anyone take offense to this? And then I reread the op and the story is lovely until it gets to the part about the accent. I don't think it was the intention of the op, but the statement really does make it sound like the man's accent was a novelty. I think maybe instead of commenting on the man's accent, it would have been better just to say how neat it was to have an asian man recognize that you were wearing an asian baby carrier. That's just my $0.02 anyway.


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## FuelJetA

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
I think the best we can do is face things head on and hash them out.


Do you think the details in the op's story were not pertinent? Did you think the story would have been better if it were made more PC for this forum? You yourself say above that we should 'face things head on and hash them out' so let's do that.

Imagine I describe a scenario to you by saying 'a car ran me off the road.' Now, let's imagine I use more descriptors. 'a red car ran me off the road while the female driver talked on her cell phone' both statements are true, one just happens to be more descriptive than the other, but this does NOT change the facts. If you choose to perceive that I am somehow saying that females can't drive, you would be making a determination based on YOUR OWN biases. Perhaps I was indicating that cell phones are dangerous, or that it is dangerous to pass on-coming red cars.

What if the op's character would have been a black Jamaican woman with a thick accent...would that not be important to the story? I think it would be just as pertinent as saying that this was a chinese man, some people may find that offensive, but those are still the facts. You shouldn't hide from the truth, only strive for accuracy.

Take for example a little book by a little know author, Huckleberry Finn, by Mark Twain.

****** Jim (that's not a typo folks!) says and I quote:
"'Ef you got hairy arms en a hairy breas', it's a sign dat you's a-gwyne to be rich. Well, dey's some use in a sign like dat, 'kase it's so fur ahead. You see, maybe you's go to be po' a long time fust,en so you might git discourage' en kill yo'sef 'f you didn't know by de sign dat you gwyne to be rich bymeby.'

He is referring to the value of money. Is he being portrayed as stupid or is he being made fun of? Neither. Twain is showing him as an intelligent slave, black no doubt. But he is more than intelligent, he is charismatic and full of wisdom, yet he speaks like a slave and not in 'the Queen's English'...go figure...that's what he IS.

Twain portrays ****** Jim in the same light as the op does her subject.

Point being: The world is full of stereotypes if you choose to look for them.

Don't let YOUR OWN judgements and choices taint your perceptions. Those who were offended by the op's statements CHOSE to be offended and missed the true point.








:


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## FuelJetA

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Summertime Mommy*
I think maybe instead of commenting on the man's accent, it would have been better just to say how neat it was to have an asian man recognize that you were wearing an asian baby carrier. That's just my $0.02 anyway.

My point exactly. You want the writer to 'spare the details' for your sake?

I would look inside yourself and ask 'why am I offended' before asking people to 'edit' what they write to make you feel better.


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## User101

Welcome to the thread, Past_VNE's husband. Do you always refer to your wife as OP?


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## Potty Diva

Oh yes, I see your wisdom Shanon. It is not the offender who has the problem, but the offendee for being offended in the first place...good grief! Now I have heard it all!

MN~ If NC isn't far enough, how about time inSC, Georgia, Kentucky(Scary), and Tennessee, totally 5 years. But, I am sure you'll find another excuse.


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## AngelBee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
Welcome to the thread, Past_VNE's husband. Do you always refer to your wife as OP?

Well....she is the OP...


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## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FuelJetA*
Imagine I describe a scenario to you by saying 'a car ran me off the road.' Now, let's imagine I use more descriptors. 'a red car ran me off the road while the female driver talked on her cell phone' both statements are true, one just happens to be more descriptive than the other, but this does NOT change the facts. If you choose to perceive that I am somehow saying that females can't drive, you would be making a determination based on YOUR OWN biases. Perhaps I was indicating that cell phones are dangerous, or that it is dangerous to pass on-coming red cars.

I disagree with your premise.

I believe that when someone goes out of their way to point out little details such as gender and race, one is engaging in a form of bias which assumes that one's own culture is the predominant or norm against which the others may be judged. If an accent is cute, it is cute because it differs from our own.

And your wife is a lovely person, I am sure, but she is no Mark Twain, nor is Mothering on the same level as Huck Finn.


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## Past_VNE

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
Welcome to the thread, Past_VNE's husband. Do you always refer to your wife as OP?

Nice of you to point out what everyone can read in his signature. Are you suggesting that he was trying to hide who he is? That would be unnecessary, and if that was his intent, he certainly would have unchecked the 'show my signtaure' box before clicking to submit his post.


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## AngelBee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
If an accent is cute, it is cute because it differs from our own.

.

Why is that a bad thing? Isn't it good to celebrate our differences?


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## User101

No, it was genuine question.
Nice assumptions though. You really had a whole scenario running through your head there!


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## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngelBee*
Why is that a bad thing? Isn't it good to celebrate our differences?

Yes, AngelBee, it is good to celebrate our differences.


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## FuelJetA

Quote:

I believe that when someone goes out of their way to point out little details such as gender and race, one is engaging in a form of bias which assumes that one's own culture is the predominant or norm against which the others may be judged. If an accent is cute, it is cute because it differs from our own.
That is not at all the case and again a generalization is being made. Mentioning a detail now makes you racist, or a biggot? That is downright silly.

Quote:

And your wife is a lovely person, I am sure, but she is no Mark Twain, nor is Mothering on the same level as Huck Finn.
She is not Mark Twain, nor is this a great novel, but my point stands. Mark Twain could have softened his text for you, but he didn't, nor should he have - even if he had been writing here.


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## AngelBee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
Yes, AngelBee, it is good to celebrate our differences.

Is it bad to point out differences we think are cute in others?


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## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngelBee*
Is it bad to point out differences we think are cute in others?

Well, AngelBee, I don't know about you, but as a full grown mature woman I generally set the bar a little higher than "cute".


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## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FuelJetA*
Brb...

Just realized you didn't read my post, huh?







:


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## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Past_VNE*









Thanks for the explanation.


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## Past_VNE

In all seriousness, I have the most rampaging imagination available without a prescription...anyone in real life can attest to that. You name a situation, I can imagine thirty nifty scenarios for it. My mind just races.









Please see my edited note, same time as your reply, to my last post. This thread's entire direction stems from the one thing I dislike most about the internet: lack of inflection, body language and gestures. Words are sooo lost without the other aspects of real conversation.


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## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Past_VNE*
In all seriousness, I have the most rampaging imagination available without a prescription...anyone in real life can attest to that. You name a situation, I can imagine thirty nifty scenarios for it. My mind just races.









Please see my edited note, same time as your reply, to my last post. This thread's entire direction stems from the one thing I dislike most about the internet: lack of inflection, body language and gestures. Words are sooo lost without the other aspects of real conversation.

I know what you mean. Some people, based solely on the internet, seem to think I am mean when, in reality, I am actually very nice. Not cute, but nice. :LOL


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## Quindin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Past_VNE*
This thread's entire direction stems from the one thing I dislike most about the internet: lack of inflection, body language and gestures. Words are sooo lost without the other aspects of real conversation.


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## Potty Diva

There's a fine line between celebrating diversity and mocking another's differences. Why was using broken english in her post necessary? I didn't see anything "cute" about it.

Oh, BTW, multi username much?


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## AngelBee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
Well, AngelBee, I don't know about you, but as a full grown mature woman I generally set the bar a little higher than "cute".

Guess I am too intouch with my inner child because the word *cute* sits fine with me


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## Past_VNE

On that note, I doubt that anyone would have felt this way towards me if we had this conversation IRL. I can't guarantee that, of course, but I really do think it stems from words onscreen vs. face to face discussions.

Ah well....I need to hit the hay shortly. Tomorrow's here already.


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## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngelBee*
Guess I am too intouch with my inner child because the word *cute* sits fine with me









Would you want to be considered cute because you were female?
Or because of how you spoke?
Or how you dressed?


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## AngelBee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Potty Diva*
There's a fine line between celebrating diversity and mocking another's differences. Why was using broken english in her post necessary? I didn't see anything "cute" about it.

Oh, BTW, multi username much?

It helped me to "see" her story.

Who has multi usernames? Did I miss something?







:


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## User101

Is babywearing always so political?


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## AngelBee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
Would you want to be considered cute because you were female?
Or because of how you spoke?
Or how you dressed?

Sure to all of the above.....

Though I would prefer hot, sexy, or knock out!


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## Quindin

Wow - I decided to take refuge on the Babywearing board for a whille in order to take a break from controversies and endless arguments...
I guess I'd better go check if there are new products in the market on the Diapering forum! :LOL


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## AngelBee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
Is babywearing always so political?

No......that's what shocked the hay out of me when I went back and read the thread.


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## Past_VNE

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Potty Diva*
Oh, BTW, multi username much?


Maybe I misunderstand, but if this is a reference to me and Shanon, look harder. I'm on a laptop, in bed with DS







who can't sleep without me these days. DH is in the living room with his supergeek-ready, do-anything desktop.

I would certainly think that our differents styles would attest to that alone, but ah, who am I to judge?


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## FuelJetA

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngelBee*
It helped me to "see" her story.

Who has multi usernames? Did I miss something?







:

'someone' is referring to the fact that Past and myself have the same IP. That is b/c we are in the same router in the same house, on 2 seperate computers.


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## AngelBee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *polihaupt*
Wow - I decided to take refuge on the Babywearing board for a whille in order to take a break from controversies and endless arguments...
I guess I'd better go check if there are new products in the market on the Diapering forum! :LOL









:


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## AngelBee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FuelJetA*
'someone' is referring to the fact that Past and myself have the same IP. That is b/c we are in the same router in the same house, on 2 seperate computers.

How do you even know someones IP?







:

Why would on even care......


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## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngelBee*
Sure to all of the above.....

Though I would prefer hot, sexy, or knock out!









We must be coming after this from two completely different places then, because I would prefer intelligent or loving, and not because of my accent or clothes, but because of who I really am.


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## FuelJetA

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngelBee*
Sure to all of the above.....

Though I would prefer hot, sexy, or knock out!









That would be sexist b/c it insinuates that you have are a specific gender. I won't even mention eye color or hair color. We might slip and insinuate race.


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## girlndocs

It's entirely possible to relay a story like this without emphasizing the novelty of someone's racial differences, or casting the other person in a bit part as "cute ethnic character". I know because I saw it done on this very forum.

A woman told how she was shopping in Chinatown with her baby in a new mei tai. She entered a store tended by a man who spoke very little English, and a woman who translated for him. They were surprised to see her carrier and the conversation went like this:

Man: How much did you pay for that?
Mama: About $30.
Man: See? $30 for a lifetime of happiness.

It was a lovely story, it brought tears to my eyes, and it was told with zero little racially-stereotyping cues.


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## Past_VNE

as to my last post, I could have said, "we are on two separate computers" but the picture would not have been so clear.


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## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FuelJetA*
That would be sexist b/c it insinuates that you have are a specific gender. I won't even mention eye color or hair color.









Um, no, it would be sexist because it would be making value statements about her based on her clothing and how "sexy" it was.


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## Quindin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FuelJetA*
That would be sexist b/c it insinuates that you have are a specific gender. I won't even mention eye color or hair color.









:LOL


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## Potty Diva

Gee, never mentioned names, but it seems the guilty parties are rarin' to go with excuses, I mean...explanations.

I still don't see how using broken english in writing had anything to do with the story. It was racist and something that reminds me of my racist father who used to speak in broken english to the waiters at the Mexican restaurant we frequented, OY VAY!


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## AngelBee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
We must be coming after this from two completely different places then, because I would prefer intelligent or loving, and not because of my accent or clothes, but because of who I really am.

Ok....the hot, sexy, knockout thing was a joke....

It doesn't offend me if someone were to say, "Your hair color is so cute!"
"Your eyes are really cute!" "Your accent is cute" (I live in MN ya know







)

Is it more meaningful when someone comments about my character.....absolutely! But that does not make the other comments offensive......it just makes them less intimant.


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## Potty Diva

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngelBee*
How do you even know someones IP?







:

Why would on even care......


I have no idea (to both questions)


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## FuelJetA

Quote:


Originally Posted by *girlndocs*
It's entirely possible to relay a story like this without emphasizing the novelty of someone's racial differences, or casting the other person in a bit part as "cute ethnic character". I know because I saw it done on this very forum.

A woman told how she was shopping in Chinatown with her baby in a new mei tai. She entered a store tended by a man who spoke very little English, and a woman who translated for him. They were surprised to see her carrier and the conversation went like this:

Man: How much did you pay for that?
Mama: About $30.
Man: See? $30 for a lifetime of happiness.

It was a lovely story, it brought tears to my eyes, and it was told with zero little racially-stereotyping cues.

I read this totally differently. The man was being portrayed as intelligent, kind and supportive. Who gives a rat's a$$ about the way she chose to portray the accent.

Also, how accurately was your conversation relayed? Was it more like:
Man: How much did you pay for that?
Mama: About $30.
Man: See? 30 dorrar for a rifetime of happayness.

Is that more accurate? Perhaps not. Either way, I am not going to be offended. The mans words were poignant and that is what was related and accepted (at least by me.)


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## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngelBee*
Ok....the hot, sexy, knockout thing was a joke....

It doesn't offend me if someone were to say, "Your hair color is so cute!"
"Your eyes are really cute!" "Your accent is cute" (I live in MN ya know







)

Is it more meaningful when someone comments about my character.....absolutely! But that does not make the other comments offensive......it just makes them less intimant.

Glad to know it doesn't offend you. But people of Asian descent have shared that it the statements made here were offensive to them, and they would probably be the ones who would be in a good position to judge.


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## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FuelJetA*
Who gives a rat's a$$ about the way she chose to portray the accent.

Apparently some people do. Thus, the conflict. Or do their opinions not count?


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## Past_VNE

Potty Diva, now you're just rude. I have no reason to play inane login games with you guys. I have been here for quite a while, have RL friends from here who can attest to my and Shanon's legitimacy for anyone who might care, but, sheesh...you're out on a limb.


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## FuelJetA

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Potty Diva*
Gee, never mentioned names, but it seems the guilty parties are rarin' to go with excuses, I mean...explanations.

I still don't see how using broken english in writing had anything to do with the story. It was racist and something that reminds me of my racist father who used to speak in broken english to the waiters at the Mexican restaurant we frequented, OY VAY!

Personal Baggage, now I see where you are coming from. You have successfully discredited yourself.


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## User101

Quote:

Also, how accurately was your conversation relayed? Was it more like:
Man: How much did you pay for that?
Mama: About $30.
Man: See? 30 dorrar for a rifetime of happayness.
Tell me you did not just affect an Asian accent in some miguided attempt to be witty.


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## Potty Diva

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FuelJetA*
I read this totally differently. The man was being portrayed as intelligent, kind and supportive. Who gives a rat's a$$ about the way she chose to portray the accent.

Also, how accurately was your conversation relayed? Was it more like:
Man: How much did you pay for that?
Mama: About $30.
Man: See? 30 dorrar for a rifetime of happayness.

Is that more accurate? Perhaps not. Either way, I am not going to be offended. The mans words were poignant and that is what was related and accepted (at least by me.)


Unbelievable! Now I can see that this is really going no where. We are dealing with people who see nothing wrong in making fun of, belittling, or steotyping others who are not like them. I'm reporting this to CM. This is just to much.


----------



## the_lissa

OKay, a person of Asian descent was offended. If I accidentally offended someone, I would want to dialogue about it, not brush it off with an Oh but I didn't mean anything.


----------



## Jenne

as a bystander I have a question...would quotation marks have helped with the comfort level of the story? I mean, if someone says, "Gee whiz I wulda luved a big ol piece a meat for suppa" that is what that person said as verifiable by quotes. Does that make a difference to those of you who are taking offense at the broken english portrayed?

OR is the whole controversy that she enjoyed his accent?

I'm not trying to start trouble just trying to understand. In the same light, those who are offended if someone enjoys your differences be it hair color, piercings, singing, writing does that offend you? That is not asked in a snarky way--if the problem is identifying his difference and enjoying that via this story then I am trying to figure out if it is all enjoyment of differnce or identifying that is frowned upon.

Also, if it is not okay for her to post that he was asian and reference his accent what type of writing makes detailing okay? If you are a published author? Newpaper? Magazine? Blogger?

Thanks!

Jenne


----------



## Potty Diva

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FuelJetA*
Personal Baggage, now I see where you are coming from. You have successfully discredited yourself.

Because I can clearly see racism? Yeah, nice try.


----------



## FuelJetA

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
Glad to know it doesn't offend you. But people of Asian descent have shared that it the statements made here were offensive to them, and they would probably be the ones who would be in a good position to judge.

Again, you love to generalize! Go ahead and ask your 'people of Asian descent'...all 2.6 billion of them. You are placing YOUR opinion on a HUGE group. Generalization? I think so.


----------



## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FuelJetA*
Again, you love to generalize! Go ahead and ask your 'people of Asian descent'...all 2.6 billion of them. You are placing YOUR opinion on a HUGE group. Generalization? I think so.

Maybe I am more sensitive than you are, but if even one person of Asian descent came to me and shared that I had offended them, I would certainly do my best to try not to do it again.


----------



## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FuelJetA*
Again, you love to generalize!

Isn't this a generalization?


----------



## Potty Diva

Ok, instead of being cruel (personal baggage) and denying you did something that may have been off color, why not just admit it, and get past it. Learn from it. The description of the gentleman was inappropriate, whether it was intended or not. We are all human, we make mistakes, but we should learn from the too. Good grief!


----------



## Past_VNE

I still find it highly amusing that you are accusing us of racism. If only you knew.....it is 180 degrees from the truth.


----------



## FuelJetA

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
Isn't this a generalization?

No.

generalization

n 1: the process of formulating general concepts by abstracting common properties of instances

You have demonstrated what could be defined as gross generalization on two specific occasions. Thus, I am not abstracting anything. But it was a nice try.


----------



## User101

I am actually not accusing you of racism. I just feel that your words were poorly chosen.


----------



## FuelJetA

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Potty Diva*
Ok, instead of being cruel (personal baggage) and denying you did something that may have been off color, why not just admit it, and get past it. Learn from it. The description of the gentleman was inappropriate, whether it was intended or not. We are all human, we make mistakes, but we should learn from the too. Good grief!

I did not make the comment, only, as you are doing, did I pass judgement on it. Thus, I am not going to apologize any more than you should. I felt that the accent was pertinent in portraying the character in the story. Should I apologize for that?


----------



## AngelBee

I find it interesting that there are posts about being sensitive if even one person is offended. Yet quite a few threads have been agruing this exact thing......being offended by people comments.....and the result was basically toughen up.

So if it is political or religious......it is ok if people feel offended. But when it comes to stereotyping.....we must not offend even one person.

I am confused....


----------



## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FuelJetA*
No.

generalization

n 1: the process of formulating general concepts by abstracting common properties of instances

You have demonstrated what could be defined as gross generalization on two specific occasions. Thus, I am not abstracting anything. But it was a nice try.

You are really annoying. I would say taking two supposed instances of generalizations, and abstracting them into the generalization that I "love to generalize" is a generalization in itself.

Or, perhaps, I should have said it was an annoying, presumptious statement from someone who has absolutely nothing to add to this conversation but rudeness and sarcasm.

Why don't you do surf the web and let us work this out? We are listening to each other, unlike you, who seem mainly interested in being insulting.


----------



## Potty Diva

The "character"? He is a human being!!!!
WHY was it pertinent?


----------



## Jenne

Jenne said, "Ya can't please 'em all, even part of the time."

How would one go about not offending ANYONE? Goodness gracious!


----------



## Potty Diva

Jenne~
It isn't about walking on eggshells and not offending anyone, it's about apologizing when you do and trying not to do it again. It's called awareness of other people, places, things other than those that we are accustomed to.


----------



## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jenne*
Jenne said, "Ya can't please 'em all, even part of the time."

How would one go about not offending ANYONE? Goodness gracious!

One wouldn't. But one would hope that if one was told that one had been offensive, one would face that head on rather than trying to convince the offended party that their offense didn't count. One could explain oneself and agree to disagree, or one could come to understand the other person's point of view.


----------



## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Potty Diva*
Jenne~
It isn't about walking on eggshells and not offending anyone, it's about apologizing when you do and trying not to do it again. It's called awareness of other people, places, things other than those that we are accustomed to.

I think there is even room for agreeing to disagree.


----------



## Potty Diva

It's all about the "blame the victim" mentality.

If that Asian didn't have such a darm cute accent, none of this would have happened!


----------



## FuelJetA

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
You are really annoying.

I am insulting? Have I personally attacked you? No. I just disagree with you.

Quote:

someone who has absolutely nothing to add to this conversation but rudeness and sarcasm.
I did add something. I wrote a long thought out post and you chose to acknowledge it in a few sentences, then you continued to push your ideas and refuse to even consider seeing it from another perspective.

Quote:

Why don't you do surf the web and let us work this out?
Do you mean that I should leave so that you may attempt to convince everyone that the post is wrong and bad without an adversarial perspective?


----------



## User101

Wow. You must think I am really powerful if you believe that I am going to make everyone accept my point of view. Thanks!


----------



## Potty Diva

I don't know about that, but I do know there is room for sleep...
Camping tomorrow..caio for now.


----------



## Jenne

Okay pottydiva. Sure, in real life, if I offend someone I tend to appologize for it. Especially if my intent was not to offend. I guess irl I've never had someone call me out on telling a story. I have called people out, namely relatives who use what most of society consider to be offensive terms based on race, religion, sex, creed. When called out they do tell me to get over it. Freedom of speech, you know, I don't get upset I just stop caring what they have to say.

Sorry, I got a bit off topic there, my point was that rl is different from being online. Anyone could read any post and be offended. Not offending ANYONE is nearly impossible. I don't just mean that a spanker could read something written by a non-spanker and be offended, I mean, what if someone was offended by the ridicule Past has received for her story? Then there are 2 diametrically opposed viewpoints. Who gets the apology?

Jenne


----------



## AngelBee

Everyone.....play nice


----------



## slightly crunchy

I said it bothered me, I never said it was racist.

I agree we can enjoy differences in accents. But if you don't think that the story was poorly worded, think about this. Would you tell this story, as it was written, to someone IRL, imitating the accent and the grammar mistakes? I can't imagine that many people would, because it would come across very badly and be considered rude and condescending.


----------



## User101

Past_VNE, I would love to discuss this further with you any time to see if we can find some common ground. Have a great night.


----------



## Past_VNE

annettemarie,

That is where I feel like we are. I see what you all are saying, but still feel the same. I meant no disrespect, had no ill motivations or prejudices and meant no belittlement. So, while I see that there was offense taken, I don't feel the need to apologize for my actions. I feel that, "I'm sorry you feel that way," kind of response would be appropriate, but I HATE that phrase and feel like it says, "Gee, tough crap." I don't feel that way towards the offended party, so I won't say that. So, I guess it comes back to, agree to disagree.

This thread HAS been enlightening, though.


----------



## Potty Diva

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngelBee*
Everyone.....play nice









I agree


----------



## User101

Gotcha. I agree about the "sorry you feel that way".

I'm sorry we couldn't see each other's point of view. I have had some insight into other ways of thinking on this thread as well.


----------



## FuelJetA

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
Wow. You must think I am really powerful if you believe that I am going to make everyone accept my point of view. Thanks!

I believe you misquoted me. I wrote: "so that you may _attempt_ to convince everyone"


----------



## Quindin

Yay - lets talk about the latest pouches, MeiTais and wraps in town!!
I can't afford to buy any right now, but it sure is fun to talk about them :LOL


----------



## AngelBee

Kozy.....I am dreaming about it polihaupt!!!







:


----------



## Jenne

Potty Diva said:


> It's all about the "blame the victim" mentality.QUOTE]
> 
> Hmmm. Interesting point. Who was the victim in this? The nice Asian man? The person/people who read the story and were offended? The OP? I guess I don't get it.
> 
> Maybe this has to do with a difference in viewpoints between the right to never be offended because one will never hear/read/see anything offensive and the freedom within limits of self-expression.
> 
> Jenne


----------



## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *polihaupt*
Yay - lets talk about the latest pouches, MeiTais and wraps in town!!
I can't afford to buy any right now, but it sure is fun to talk about them :LOL

Blessed are the peacemakers, huh? :LOL


----------



## AngelBee

Oh.....and my stepmama wants to wear my baby brother!!!


----------



## UrbanPlanter

why is it so hard for the OPs to just accept the fact that the OP has offended someone instead of being so self-righteous about what the OP said being ok.

I'm too tired to explain what I mean.

But, if I said something that was considered offensive, I'd be considerate of the person/s offended - not blame them or tell them to look deep inside themselves and figure out why they are offended.


----------



## Quindin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngelBee*
Kozy.....I am dreaming about it polihaupt!!!







:

Don't even bring that up AngelBee... I am having "givers-remorse"







:LOL :LOL


----------



## UrbanPlanter

I think the "blame the victim" in this case the "victim" is the person/s offended by the OP.


----------



## AngelBee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *polihaupt*
Don't even bring that up AngelBee... I am having "givers-remorse"







:LOL :LOL









Oh......are you going to get one now or wait? Just think how happy Jess is......







And Kristi thinks we are pretty funny!







:


----------



## FuelJetA

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
Blessed are the peacemakers, huh? :LOL

Offended Atheist!









This time am I TRULY kidding, but I am sure you see the point. Lively argument! Thanks for some mental stimulation.
Goodnight!







:


----------



## User101

I want an Ellaroo Mei Tai. Not sling hyena material, I'm sure, but I love the fabrics. Nicholas is almost 2, though, and I'm just not sure now is the right time to start wearing him on my back.


----------



## AngelBee

Nite Shanon


----------



## AngelBee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
I want an Ellaroo Mei Tai. Not sling hyena material, I'm sure, but I love the fabrics. Nicholas is almost 2, though, and I'm just not sure now is the right time to start wearing him on my back.

When is a good time to start wearing them on your back? I have been too scared to really do it







:


----------



## Quindin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngelBee*







Oh......are you going to get one now or wait? Just think how happy Jess is......







And Kristi thinks we are pretty funny!








:

:LOL Didn't she call us "Larry, Curly, and Moe"? :LOL
I am very happy for Jess








I am just kidding about the remorse though - I can't afford a Kozy right now anyways ...


----------



## AngelBee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *polihaupt*
:LOL Didn't she call us "Larry, Curly, and Moe"? :LOL
I am very happy for Jess








I am just kidding about the remorse though - I can't afford a Kozy right now anyways ...

Yup....We are the Kozy Stooges!!!


----------



## Quindin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngelBee*
When is a good time to start wearing them on your back? I have been too scared to really do it







:

I have been wearing DS on my back for weeks now!! He is only 13 weeks








I heard it is easier with a Kozy, but I have not tried it


----------



## Quindin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
I want an Ellaroo Mei Tai. Not sling hyena material, I'm sure, but I love the fabrics. Nicholas is almost 2, though, and I'm just not sure now is the right time to start wearing him on my back.

Annette, with a 2 year old you might want to try a bigger body MT.
Just my opinion based on what my 2yo likes of course.
I do only wear him very occasionally though (he prefers running around), so I buy my carriers with my 3mo in mind...


----------



## sarajane

What was the stereotype portrayed in the very first post? I really don't see how saying someone has a beautiful accent is a stereotype. I'm really just curious about what the upset was about, I read alot of the posts from the beginning and just don't get it.


----------



## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *polihaupt*
Annette, with a 2 year old you might want to try a bigger body MT.
Just my opinion based on what my 2yo likes of course.
I do only wear him very occasionally though (he prefers running around), so I buy my carriers with my 3mo in mind...

Maybe I'll just wait and treat myself next baby!


----------



## UrbanPlanter

*sarajane* - does this help explain it?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *guerrillamama*
Past_VNE, I tried really hard to think of some way to put this diplomatically, and then I realized I may as well just shoot straight, as I would if we were talking irl.

I think you are stereotyping and exotifying Asian people, and it's not cool. Our accents and culture are not cutesy knicknacks for the amusement of white people. Your post really really bugged me.

and this:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mahdokt*
Yeah, I love it when I get attention from random ethnic people too. It's especially charming when they have quaint accents and wear their native dress.


----------



## AngelBee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *polihaupt*
I have been wearing DS for weeks now!! He is only 13 weeks








I heard it is easier with a Kozy, but I have not tried it

That is the entire reason I want a Kozy.

Angelo is a big boy and he sticks out to far on the front for me to be comfortable. I am small waisted and big boobed......and he is like 25lbs, 7 months, and only eats breast milk!









I think I could wear him alot more if I can get him comfortably on my back. I have a stretch wrap, pouches, and a wise woman sling.....I just can't get a fit that feels sturdy on my back. I keep trying but it doesn't feel secure


----------



## AngelBee

Annettemarie......I just started laughing thinking about your thread earlier......are we OT ya think???







:


----------



## AngelBee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngelBee*
Annettemarie......I just started laughing thinking about your thread earlier......are we OT ya think???







:

Oh wait.....it wasn't just *your* thread.....


----------



## Quindin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngelBee*
That is the entire reason I want a Kozy.

Angelo is a big boy and he sticks out to far on the front for me to be comfortable. I am small waisted and big boobed......and he is like 25lbs, 7 months, and only eats breast milk!









I think I could wear him alot more if I can get him comfortably on my back. I have a stretch wrap, pouches, and a wise woman sling.....I just can't get a fit that feels sturdy on my back. I keep trying but it doesn't feel secure











I ADORE my Freehand for that - I can get DS VERY tight!!
I can already see I am going to need a taller MT for when he wants to nap on my back though. I am getting this one before my Kozy: www.mamabydesign.com It will be costume made with appliques, embroidery and the whole enchillada!!!
















Edited to add: Sorry for being OT everyone








Wait: is talking about BW really being off topic HERE??







:LOL


----------



## AngelBee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *polihaupt*
I ADORE my Freehand for that - I can get DS VERY tight!!
I can already see I am going to need a taller MT for when he wants to nap on my back though. I am getting this one before my Kozy: www.mamabydesign.com It will be costume made with appliques, embroidery and the whole enchillada!!!
















Oh......I saw those before....I want the butterfly one.....won't happen.....but a girl can dream!


----------



## Potty Diva

PAST:
I'm just wondering if you would tell the story, suing broken english and an asian accent if that man was standing behind you, while you told it to a friend? How do you think that man would feel?


----------



## mahdokht

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Past_VNE*
I still find it highly amusing that you are accusing us of racism. If only you knew.....it is 180 degrees from the truth.


Yes, I'm sure some of your best friend are colored.


----------



## Potty Diva

Ok, I am so not hip with the babywearin crowd, but I still wear Kailey on my back in a Maya Wrap. Is this not acceptable?


----------



## AngelBee

Come on.....no fighting.....think happy thoughts


----------



## AngelBee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Potty Diva*
Ok, I am so not hip with the babywearin crowd, but I still wear Kailey on my back in a Maya Wrap. Is this not acceptable?

That is great! I am just a scaredy cat....that's all....







:


----------



## Jenne

Okay, thanks UrbanPlanter for reprinting Guerillamama's quote. This is what has been bothering me about this whole situation...

Guerillamama do you know Past? Do you know she is white? Are you bugged about the story and her use of identifies and accents or is this really about her using a meitei? By throwing in the cultural knicknacks part I thought maybe it was more about the latter?

Also, what is wrong with liking attention from people be they random strangers or friends? Don't we all like attention to some degree? Especially positive attention about our parenting choices? And although you were being sarcastic, Mahdokht, I agree, accents can be charming. I have lived all over the world and the way people sound completely different from one another is incredible to me. All this diversity is such a beautiful thing.

Jenne


----------



## Potty Diva

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mahdokht*
Yes, I'm sure some of your best friend are colored.

Oh Snap!
And Mahdokt swings with an uppercut, landing PAST right on her tush!


----------



## mahdokht

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Potty Diva*
Oh Snap!
And Mahdokt swings with an uppercut, landing PAST right on her tush!

It's nice down here isn't it? How's your bum?


----------



## Quindin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Potty Diva*
Ok, I am so not hip with the babywearin crowd, but I still wear Kailey on my back in a Maya Wrap. Is this not acceptable?









That is impressive!! I can't for the life of me figure out how to use ring slings properly - can't imagine a back carry with them!!


----------



## AngelBee

I must be horrible......I tell people right to their face "Oh...I love your accent." "Your accent is so sweet" "What a beautiful accent....where are you from?"








I have great conversations with these people. I love the fact that we are all created equal but not the same. Variety is beautiful!


----------



## Potty Diva

Jenne~ You are freakin me out here. What does PAST being white have to do with wearing meiteis?

Did you catch the meaning in Mad's sacrasm?

Do you all realize I need to get out of this house at half past eight if we are going to get a good long day on the beach? Myrtle Beach is a good two hours away. I just can't keep on chatting like this. So stop it darn it!


----------



## Jenne

:


----------



## Potty Diva

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngelBee*
I must be horrible......I tell people right to their face "Oh...I love your accent." "Your accent is so sweet" "What a beautiful accent....where are you from?"








I have great conversations with these people. I love the fact that we are all created equal but not the same. Variety is beautiful!


ME TOO! I love the sound it makes in my ears.

The difference...How often do you recite a incidence, interaction you have had with someone who has a different accent than your own, using a Westernized version of it?

And if you have, how often have you thought what that person would think, if they were standing behind you and you were doing it? I would think it would be very hurtful.


----------



## AngelBee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Potty Diva*
Jenne~ You are freakin me out here. What does PAST being white have to do with wearing meiteis?

Did you catch the meaning in Mad's sacrasm?

Do you all realize I need to get out of this house at half past eight if we are going to get a good long day on the beach? Myrtle Beach is a good two hours away. I just can't keep on chatting like this. So stop it darn it!

Oh.....I







Murtle Beach! Had my first french kiss there!


----------



## mahdokht

meh forget it.


----------



## Potty Diva

Great! Let's bring the French into it now. Why is it a FRENCH kiss? Do all French use their tongues when kissing? if not why is this particular type of kiss called a "French" kiss? Oh Bother.


----------



## Jenne

What Past being white has to do with is Guerillamama's statement:
"I think you are stereotyping and exotifying Asian people, and it's not cool. *Our accents and culture are not cutesy knicknacks for the amusement of white people*. Your post really really bugged me."

I thought that maybe Guerillamama was upset about the culture part being a presumeable white woman drinking bubble tea at a sushi place whilst wearing a meitei (the knicknack). Otherwise I didn't understand where in the world knicknacks or culture particularly entered the scene.

And yes, I understood Mahdokht was being sarcastic. I happened to agree with some of the words and not nescessarily that particular set of meaning inferred by the sarcasm.

Jenne


----------



## UrbanPlanter

ok, lemme try again

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jenne*
Okay, thanks UrbanPlanter for reprinting Guerillamama's quote. This is what has been bothering me about this whole situation...

Guerillamama do you know Past? Do you know she is white? Are you bugged about the story and her use of identifies and accents or is this really about her using a meitei? By throwing in the cultural knicknacks part I thought maybe it was more about the latter?


Quote:


Originally Posted by *guerrillamama*
I think you are stereotyping and exotifying Asian people, and it's not cool. Our accents and culture are not cutesy knicknacks for the amusement of white people. Your post really really bugged me.

I don't think this has anything to do with PAST wearing a meitei. It has to do with illustrating the story in such a way that is offensive (the stereotypical description of the man and his accent) - if the man was standing next to or behind PAST when she was telling this story, would she have described the encounter the same way for his ears?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jenne*
Also, what is wrong with liking attention from people be they random strangers or friends? Don't we all like attention to some degree? Especially positive attention about our parenting choices? And although you were being sarcastic, Mahdokt, I agree, accents can be charming. I have lived all over the world and the way people sound completely different from one another is incredible to me. All this diversity is such a beautiful thing.

Jenne

I'm too tired to explain this. I like what Mahdokht wrote. It sorta sums it up, as long as the sarcasm is read with it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mahdokht*
Yeah, I love it when I get attention from random ethnic people too. It's especially charming when they have quaint accents and wear their native dress.


----------



## AngelBee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Potty Diva*
ME TOO! I love the sound it makes in my ears.

The difference...How often do you recite a incidence, interaction you have had with someone who has a different accent than your own, using a Westernized version of it?

And if you have, how often have you thought what that person would think, if they were standing behind you and you were doing it? I would think it would be very hurtful.

To be honest I sometimes do immitate it. Not on purpose....I have a habit of mimicking peoples voices when I talk to them or repeat stories. My friend Kim (from Vietnam) makes fun of me all of the time because when we talk I start picking up her accent.


----------



## Potty Diva

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mahdokht*
meh forget it.

No, I totally dig what youa re saying.


----------



## UrbanPlanter

gosh it took me so long to answer, that a complete conversation occurred :LOL


----------



## Jenne

Mahdokht I am really trying to understand here but I am getting frustrated. Maybe you are too? Oops, went back to read your last post and it is gone...

Urbanplanter...one more question and then I'll quit. How could the conversation be "stereotypical" when in fact it was (I am presuming here as I wasn't there) carried out the way it was written. To be stereotypical wouldn't it have to be fictionalized or based on a stereotype instead of reality?

Jenne


----------



## Potty Diva

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UrbanPlanter*
gosh it took me so long to answer, that a complete conversation occurred :LOL

But I am glad you thought your post out so well. I was getting a headache fro mthis thread and not thinking I explained the "white" reference well, and you really covered it for me, although I know that was not your intention.

Thanks. You got some good words lady.


----------



## Potty Diva

Jenne~
The sterotype is (to me) the use of broken english as a stereotype of native Asians who speak english. It's infuriating.


----------



## UrbanPlanter

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Potty Diva*
But I am glad you thought your post out so well. I was getting a headache fro mthis thread and not thinking I explained the "white" reference well, and you really covered it for me, although I know that was not your intention.

Thanks. You got some good words lady.

:LOL you're joking, right? it was all quotes :LOL


----------



## Jenne

Except in THIS case it is not a sterotype IF that is what the man actually said.

If she was making the story up or adlibbing then sure that is stereotypical.


----------



## AngelBee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Potty Diva*
Great! Let's bring the French into it now. Why is it a FRENCH kiss? Do all French use their tongues when kissing? if not why is this particular type of kiss called a "French" kiss? Oh Bother.


----------



## AngelBee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UrbanPlanter*
:LOL you're joking, right? it was all quotes :LOL

I just scrolled back to see what she was talking about......I was so confused!!!







:


----------



## UrbanPlanter

*Jenne* - ok, here goes my attempt to figure this out...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Past_VNE*
...an older Asian man came up and in his beautiful accent said to me,

"Ahhhh, you have ancient Chinese baby carrier. People in China carry on back (gesture), people in US carry on front (gesture). They think back bad for babies. It is not. (shakes head)"

I said, "Yes, it is bad for babies' legs to dangle like in US carriers."

He said, "Americans not know this. How you know this?"

I replied, "I read on the internet about how bad it is for their backs if the weight in right here (gesturing like I'm cupping a babies crotch).

He nods and I say, "He really loves to ride back there. He loves to look all around and also he sleeps well when he is in it."

so, here are the descriptors which paint the stereotypical picture:
- older asian man
- beautiful accent
- quotes of broken english
- "gestures"

and then... the grand finale...

Quote:

I just loved how he said in his accent, (use your imagination here...) "ancient chinese baby carrier."
gawd, this just harkens back to that laundry detergent commercial of the 70's where the Asian laundryman says he has an "anciant chinese secret".

this story could have been relayed in a much less stereotypical/offensive way, just stating that an asian man who is familiar with the meitei carrier was impressed that we were using one bc he never sees them in america, and so on, and how lovely he was in the conversation... whatever.

do I make any sense? yawn.........


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## Jenne

And I guess that is where the confusion lies for me. Yes, stereotypes are infuriating. I am blonde, currently southern US, fat, and a woman so lots to choose from in the stereotypical world. However when I say "y'all" if someone were quoting me that would not be sterotypical presentation of a southern person it would be representing exactly what I had said. I find that details about situtions make them easier to visualize and more specific. Did I have to know that the man in question was elderly, asian, had an accent? No. The writer, I believe, chose to share these parts of the story to lend flavor, interest, and realism to the story.

I better stop now before 20 more pages are written and I'm totally off again.

Jenne


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## Potty Diva

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jenne*
Except in THIS case it is not a sterotype IF that is what the man actually said.

If she was making the story up or adlibbing then sure that is stereotypical.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH HHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

_NO! What he said was:
Ahhhh, you have an ancient Chinese baby carrier. People in China carry babies on their back. People in the US carry babies on their fronts. They think carrying on the back is bad for babies. It is not._

"Ahhhh, you have ancient Chinese baby carrier. People in China carry on back (gesture), people in US carry on front (gesture). They think back bad for babies. It is not. (shakes head)"

I said, "Yes, it is bad for babies' legs to dangle like in US carriers."
_He said, "Americans don't know this. How do you know this?"_
He said, "Americans not know this. How you know this?"

What she did was write in stereotypical asian broken english. It's rude. Just as rude as taking your fingers and pulling the outer part of your eyes to the side to simulate an Asians eyes (or what people THINK Asian eyes look like)


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## Jenne

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UrbanPlanter*
*Jenne* - ok, here goes my attempt to figure this out...

so, here are the descriptors which paint the stereotypical picture:
- older asian man
- beautiful accent
- quotes of broken english
- "gestures"

and then... the grand finale...

gawd, this just harkens back to that laundry detergent commercial of the 70's where the Asian laundryman says he has an "anciant chinese secret".

this story could have relayed in a much less stereotypical/offensive way, just stating that an asian man who is familiar with the meitei carrier was impressed that we were using one bc he never sees them in america, and so on, and how lovely he was in the conversation... whatever.

do I make any sense? yawn.........


Hmmm...I didn't have TV until about 5 years ago...so maybe that is the confusion? Again I have to say that the list of things you mentioned while they may be stereotypical (i.e. southerners say "y'all") in THIS case they were reality and NOT a stereotype (unless of course the person was fictional in which case I could see the stereotyping). The use of gestures as pointed out was a 2 way street. He used gestures, she used gestures. I'm just lost, unless the verdict is that no description of events can be embellished with details. That would suck.

Jenne


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## Jenne

See, I just am not down with changing spoken language if I am going to "it". So, even if someone said something offensive or sterotypical if I was telling the story I would "what they said exactly as they said it". That was the way I was taught to write. Different schools of learning, different schools of thought I guess.

Jenne


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## Jenne

Okay, I have to go to sleep now! Night y'all!

Jenne


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## UrbanPlanter

the description of his use of "gestures" just punctuates the broken english which was written when he was quoted.

I guess I am ok with noting that he is an older asian man, but when you start putting broken english, gestures, and the stereotypical accent into the mix, you might as well post a link to someone pulling their eyes up to illustrate his "expression" (like Potty Diva said...).


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## AngelBee

Nite Jenne


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## cmb123

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FuelJetA*
Also, how accurately was your conversation relayed? Was it more like:
Man: How much did you pay for that?
Mama: About $30.
Man: See? 30 dorrar for a rifetime of happayness.

Gee, I can see we're all way off in suspecting a little bit 'o racism from your end.

I'll tell you why I after just reading 9 pages of this, was offended. Because I doubt that any of the story would have been told if there was no "cute" accent. That WAS the story, not "hey, somebody complemented me on my babycarrier" - lets be real.


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## AngelBee

Oh no.....it has resurfaced...


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## Oh the Irony

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UrbanPlanter*

this story could have been relayed in a much less stereotypical/offensive way, just stating that an asian man who is familiar with the meitei carrier was impressed that we were using one bc he never sees them in america, and so on, and how lovely he was in the conversation... whatever.

do I make any sense? yawn.........

total sense to me. and you are right, the culminating statement is that last sentence with the (use your imagination).


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## orangefoot

I've come to this late..... my eyes are bleeding from reading the sorry tale.
I can see the problem

I have met americans who think England is so small that we must all know each other (Oh Oxford near London? I have a second cousin there - do you know him? Said to me in Mexico - I am not kidding) During the summer the whole place is overrun with americans taking photos of our cultural heritage and trying to work out how some part of it might be theirs. I know that all of you are not like this but it is true to say that some are.

Those of you who are saying stereotying is wrong are right to draw attention to it as it is the seed of a much greater problem. From over here your country definitely needs a bit of a reality check where respect for others is concerned so every little helps.

As for slings - it is so unusual to meet people IRL who say kind things about sling wearing that I can see why the OP wanted to shout about it.


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## sarajane

From the original post I don't see a stereotype being used. She told exactly what was said and says she loves his accent. That I would think is a compliment to the man and not a stereotype. Fact is, he had an Asian accent she found beautiful.


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## UrbanPlanter

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sarajane*
From the original post I don't see a stereotype being used. She told exactly what was said and says she loves his accent. That I would think is a compliment to the man and not a stereotype. Fact is, he had an Asian accent she found beautiful.

... but then she quoted his broken english - not a very respectful rendition of how the man presented himself.

I still want to know if she would have told this story exactly the same way if he was standing right next to her.


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## girlndocs

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UrbanPlanter*
I still want to know if she would have told this story exactly the same way if he was standing right next to her.

Let's face it, UP, by now it seems pretty clear that the sad fact is she WOULD.


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## UrbanPlanter

OT girlndocs I love your siggie


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## sarajane

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UrbanPlanter*
... but then she quoted his broken english - not a very respectful rendition of how the man presented himself.

I guess I don't see that as a bad thing seeing as it is only proper when quoting someone to quote it exactly as they said it. If I tried speaking in another language I wouldn't expect to be quoted as speaking it perfectly, that would be silly.

If he has no problem presenting himself with his "broken english" then I doubt he has a problem being quoted as such. I don't think anybody expected him to speak it perfectly.


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## User101

I was thinking about this. If someone posts on a message board, and I responded with all their typos and grammatical errors in quotes, that would be seen passive aggressively being antagonistic, not as trying to continue the conversation.


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## delicious

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sarajane*

If he has no problem presenting himself with his "broken english" then I doubt he has a problem being quoted as such. I don't think anybody expected him to speak it perfectly.

do you honestly believe that? i can't speak for him, but when i've tried to communicate in other languages (and always ended up sounding really bad...) i've always been extremely embarrassed.

maybe thats what you guys want to believe so you can feel better about yourselves for making fun of them at the end of the day.

i guess it's probably pretty easy to live that way though.


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## AngelBee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
I was thinking about this. If someone posts on a message board, and I responded with all their typos and grammatical errors in quotes, that would be seen passive aggressively being antagonistic, not as trying to continue the conversation.









Should you correct their spelling and grammer in their quote instead? Or just avoid quoting them?

I think if you quote exactly what they said.....spelling, grammer, and all...........and responded to their post.....that would be fine. :sgrug

Maybe I don't get what you are trying to say...







:


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## User101

No, AngelBee, you don't.


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## girlndocs

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngelBee*
Maybe I don't get what you are trying to say...

Maybe because you have never experienced being of an ethnicity that is routinely stereotyped in a degrading way ...


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## AngelBee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *girlndocs*
Maybe because you have never experienced being of an ethnicity that is routinely stereotyped in a degrading way ...

I have been called a whop and a **** (sp?) all my life. I have been teased that my grandpa was the Godfather.

My son is Native American, Black French Creo, Spanish, Italian, Puerto Rican, and a mix of a couple other caucasion ethinticities.

I know about stereotyping.


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## simonee

I have one serious question to the OP:

If you had told this story to a group of people, would you have done the guy's accent the same way?

And if you had told it to a group of people including a bunch of Asians, would you also have?

If you answer both questions with "yes", I think there's some validity in the way you told it here. Especially considering the fact that I"m afraid you wouldn't have too many IRL friends to tell it to, you dh's comments about the 180 degrees notwithstanding


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## member

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngelBee*
I know about stereotyping.

Then why do you seem so clueless about stereotypes and exoticification hurting people?

I dunno, when someone comes to me and says "hey, _____ offends me and here's why." I tend to stop, look and listen. And I sure as all heck do not try to make it all. about. me. like so many folks.


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## User101

Simonee, I think I agree with your whole post!


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## bri276

wow. people get so uptight about this stuff. like it's never ok to point out our differences. because different must = bad.
my father was born in Italy. He, himself, will make fun of his own father's (my grandfather's) extremely broken English, right in front of Nonno, and Nonno will laugh. We all think it's CUTE that he says scrimps instead of shrimp. Is my Dad prejudiced against his own Italian heritage? of course not. Am I a hateful biased granddaughter for making the funny Italian accent when I quote my Nonno? definitely not. I'm doing it in a loving way, and because honestly- it is funny. Even small children love playing with words to make them sound different because it's a form of humor. And if you think other cultures don't make fun of American accents you're kidding yourselves- and personally I would care less if someone made fun of my Rhode Island accent if it wasn't meant in a mean way.
There is a huge difference between a KKK member using so-called ebonics sarcastically to hatefully make fun of a different race, and a person using language differences to illustrate a conversation- to accuse someone of being prejudiced is a really big deal.


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## its_our_family

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sarajane*
I guess I don't see that as a bad thing seeing as it is only proper when quoting someone to quote it exactly as they said it. If I tried speaking in another language I wouldn't expect to be quoted as speaking it perfectly, that would be silly.


If he had a french or english accent would it have been stated that way?

I can admit that I would have found it all the more cute that the man had an accent but it didn't add anything to the story. So what was the point?

a written quote isn't supposed to be edited. I'm not sure a person quoting what someone said with their voie is the same. The person writing the original quote is responsible for the correctness.


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## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bri276*
There is a huge difference between a KKK member using so-called ebonics sarcastically to hatefully make fun of a different race, and a person using language differences to illustrate a conversation- to accuse someone of being prejudiced is a really big deal.

I think you have some valid points. However, the "vibe" I got from this thread and the other one about the "beautiful chinese woman" were that the differences were not being celebrated or used to illustrate a conversation, but more in a "noble savage" sort of way.


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## AngelBee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Selu Gigage*
Then why do you seem so clueless about stereotypes and exoticification hurting people?

I dunno, when someone comes to me and says "hey, _____ offends me and here's why." I tend to stop, look and listen. And I sure as all heck do not try to make it all. about. me. like so many folks.

It is all about intent.

Does the person stereotyping me or my family mean it in a hateful way?

Do they appreciate our differences and think we are "cute"?

I celebrate my families differences. We may talk cute, dress funny, talk loud, or us our hands to much............I am proud of those things. I love when people pointed out my papas accent. I love when they comment on the tone of my sons skin. I believe it shows appreciatiion for our differences.

Everything can be a stereotype.............you can't get away from that.

It is all about perspective...........and I chose to see the glass as half full.


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## member

Angela, I must say this last post has helped me to see _something_... even if it was not the glass.







:


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## AngelBee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Selu Gigage*
Angela, I must say this last post has helped me to see _something_... even if it was not the glass.







:

What did you see???









Are you seeing dead people again???








: (6th sense.......







: )


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## Wugmama

Past_VNE, what a great experience that must have been. I would have been warmed from head to toe after that conversation! I never used any sort of sling with my first - didn't learn about them until it was too late. Now I already have two maya wraps in the ready for the new babe. Thanks to reading your story, I also want to get a Mei Tei (sp?). Thanks!


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## Pynki

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UrbanPlanter*
so, here are the descriptors which paint the stereotypical picture:
- older asian man
- beautiful accent
- quotes of broken english
- "gestures"

and then... the grand finale...

gawd, this just harkens back to that laundry detergent commercial of the 70's where the Asian laundryman says he has an "anciant chinese secret".

this story could have been relayed in a much less stereotypical/offensive way, just stating that an asian man who is familiar with the meitei carrier was impressed that we were using one bc he never sees them in america, and so on, and how lovely he was in the conversation... whatever.

do I make any sense? yawn.........

EXCEPT that THIS is what this man did and said.. She was using HIS WORDS and gestures as HE used them.. She RELAYED a STORY as it HAPPENED TO HER..

Normally I would agree with you.. I don't see it here..

I thought it was an endearing story..

I have gotten comments on my sling from a woman from South Africa who said it was very similiar to how they carried their babies there, and from interestingly enough, an older asian lady who works at.. Ok here I got ethinically stereotyping.. PANDA EXPRESS!!!

She also said that it looked very similiar to the baby carries they used.. All smiles like she was reminiscing about either a)when her children were little or b) when she was a child herself..

Simply because a person who is of an ethnicity doing something that has been stereotyped FOR that ethnicity and is related by written word using their EXACT words does NOT make it stereotypical..

The OP was NOT talking about *ALL* the asian people who say this to her, or who may speak this way..

She is relaying a story about a specific man who used THESE words, and used THESE gestures in THIS way with an accent (and here may be the only thing that could even been deemed stereotypical) that is usually recognized as asian..

Warm Squishy Feelings..
Dyan


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## buglette

Quote:


Originally Posted by *guerrillamama*
I think you are stereotyping and exotifying Asian people, and it's not cool. Our accents and culture are not cutesy knicknacks for the amusement of white people. Your post really really bugged me.









:


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## Jan Andrea

Wow. I don't post here very often, and was referred from another board, but this has been blown so far out of context I'm surprised some of you can still see the ground.

The OP was trying to tell a sweet, enlightening story. She used colorful language to describe what happened. It would not have had the same charm had she used the dull, lifeless language someone else used a few pages back. That was boring, and frankly, I don't think it made the point nearly as well as the OP did.

People are all different. If I went to France and used my (bad) French to compliment someone, it would not bother me in the least to have them copy my words in a post such as this. Indeed, I would be disappointed to find that they had cleaned it up, especially if it was my words that had touched them in the first place -- that I was paying them a compliment despite my incomplete knowledge of their language.

This is probably not going to go over well, but it seems to me that many people are eager to find excuses to be offended. I'm an atheist, and for a long time, I took it negatively and personally if someone dared to say "Bless you!" when I sneezed (how dare they!). I found it personally offensive if they said something off-hand about how Canadians are all (fill in the blank), being that I was born in Canada. I became a Christian for a while, and then found endless examples of persecution against my new-found religion.

Was any of this warranted? No. Was it helpful to me or those around me? No. All it did was engender bad feelings all around. I'm not "blaming the victim" here, because in retrospect, there was no victim. Not everything people say has to be taken personally. Not every comment involving someone of a different nationality says "I'm a racist!" Not every perceived slight is actually meant as one. And while there is a great deal of racism in this world, *quoting* a person's speech in an online forum is not in itself a racist act.

Take a deep breath, step back, and look at it without an expectation of offense. It makes a big difference.


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## bizarrogirl

I don't usually get involved with these kind of threads, since I don't post here a lot, but I've been musing over this all day ...

I'm Italian-American. A significant portion of my relatives are immigrants or still live in Italy. If the OP had related the same story, except she was in an Italian restaurant, and had related the broken English used by an Italian immigrant, I would not have been at all offended, unless it was done maliciously or mockingly. I didn't pick that up at all here.

I love my relatives. They almost all speak broken English, to varying degrees. When I relate stories about them, or write about them, I try to capture their language as it is spoken; I don't edit it for grammatical correctness or proper pronunciation. That's not who they are. Their usage of the language, however improper or "stereotypical" is part of what makes them unique and beautiful. To correct their language for them doesn't just flatten their character and personality, it's actually a bit insulting.

If my Zia (aunt) says to me, "Oh, dio, che bella bambina! She want a sangwich?" and I want to write that down in my journal or as part of a story, I'm not going to write, "My, what a lovely baby. May I make her a sandwich?" That makes her sound like a completely different person, even changes her personality. It would leach her ethnicity, which is a big part of her, completely away.

I don't know; I would like to think that if the shoe were on the other foot, and my relatives found my broken Italian charming, they would feel free to share that as part of MY personality and not feel like they had to pretend I'm not an American because it would be stereotyping.

Now, if someone giggled at my father, who looks Italian but has perfect English diction, and related his language to reflect a thick immigrant-speak, THAT would be stereotyping. If someone looked at him and said, "I bet he's in the mob and loves capicolla," THAT would be stereotyping. If someone related my aunt's speech, not as she actually speaks it, but made it up to sound more "Italian," THAT would be stereotyping.

I guess what I'm saying is that it's not stereotyping to portray someone as they are. Would we be having this discussion if the OP were describing a Texan twang, or a Boston accent, or Long Island talk?


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## girlndocs

The fact that this man was of a marginalized ethnicity, and the OP is of apparently of the marginalizING ethnicity, changes the context dramatically.

Or, to put it differently, there is a big difference between being caricatured as the tough cowboy character in a John Wayne movie, and caricatured as the Asian neighbor in "Breakfast at Tiffany's".


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## Aura_Kitten

for heaven's sake, people.

i'm joining the dissenters. i really enjoyed VNE's op.

maybe you see it as stereotypical because you know that old asian men are like that and you are all so afraid of being politically incorrect that you don't want to admit it?







:

Pynki hit the nail on the head. "THIS is what this man did and said.. She was using HIS WORDS and gestures as HE used them.. She RELAYED a STORY as it HAPPENED TO HER.. " <-- yes, that.


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## Aura_Kitten

what's next, is the PC crowd here going to try to ban the Joy Luck Club because Amy Tan wrote about asian people like this?

gah.


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## Jenne

Wow! I can't believe this is still going on...

Jenne


----------



## AngelBee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jenne*
Wow! I can't believe this is still going on...

Jenne

Me either....


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## cynthia mosher

This discussion has been taken way off topic. The sarcasm posted is extremely inappropriate and does nothing to advance the discussion in a positive direction. Our User Agreement specifically asks members to avoid using sarcasm when posting so a few of you are in violation of that.

For those of you who wish to discuss the general topic of stereotype and racism, please do so in TAO with a new thread or in posting to one of the several existing threads of the past.


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