# How to resist Cry It Out pressure from all sides when you're too sleep-deprived to think clearly?



## blake201 (May 20, 2010)

Here's my situation: everyone around me--my parents, my pediatrician, even my husband--is trying to pressure me to "sleep train" my 6-month-old daughter in Cry-It-Out style for my own good... and I'm such a sleep-deprived mess I'm having trouble organizing a firm clear persuasive response. It doesn't help that I'm not having much success with any of my own "no-cry" methods! Any tools or ideas for fighting back?

Here's the background:

When DD was a newborn, I was able to use the "she's just a newborn" card to ignore any suggestions that she be allowed to cry, and I managed to get my husband mostly on board with me. I've always responded to any crying as instantly as possible by nursing, rocking or otherwise comforting her, and she almost never cries when I'm caring for her. She cries more often when my husband or mother watch her (cause she hates bottles) but they always held her when she was crying.

Plus, we weren't having any real sleep conflicts. By 9 weeks she was sleeping through the night on her own (and we cosleep--half the night she's in the crib right next to the bed and the other half she's in the bed snuggled with me.) Even when I returned to work at 12 weeks she only woke once or twice at night to nurse, so I always got at least a 4-hour sleep stretch.

Fast-forward to the present. Starting around five months, she started waking 3 times per night, then 4, then... every hour sometimes. And often crying, not just waking up and moving around quietly like before. I'd try to comfort her and put my arm around her and soothe her back to sleep, but only long bouts of nursing or rocking would actually do anything. And even after nursing, she'd often wake and cry again in another hour.

Meanwhile, my life fell apart otherwise--at work I went from being a high-performing star to being such a zombie that I got reprimanded by my manager several times (and especially now that my husband has just been laid off, I REALLY need that job!). All I did on evenings and weekends was lie in bed and nurse/nap with the baby.

And everyone started saying "you are hurting yourself and you're going to get ill by insisting that she only nurse at night and that she can't CIO"...

Since she was drooling and gumming everything, I figured it was teething. So I took her to the pediatrician with my mother in tow to make sure it wasn't a medical issue keeping her up...

And my otherwise great pediatrician informed us that the problem was that baby didn't NEED to nurse so often, but just WANTED to, so we needed to start sleep-training her via Cry It Out.

And then my otherwise great therapist (I have OCD and see a cognitive behavioural therapist) insisted that the pediatrician was right...

And then my parents and husband took this as validation of their views...

And I tried to talk to friends and coworkers who otherwise seemed to be very AP-style--babywearing, breastfeeding nurturing types... and discovered they all used the Ferber method.

And yeah, now it's just a mess. My parents are not people who believe that any articles I send them on why CIO is bad/harmful are valid ("you just put too much trust in books"). My husband unfortunately has read some articles promoting Cry It Out and has friends who swear by it.

And I've been trying techniques from the No Cry Sleep Solution but having no luck whatsover... mostly because I'm so sleep deprived I can't seem to get organized enough to try them:


I've tried repeatedly to pull her off the breast just before she falls asleep... but she latches right back on and nurses until she's asleep.
I've got a daily bedtime routine for her, but due to my work schedule, we can't start it until 8:30 p.m. and sometimes even later (9 p.m.)
I've tried as much as possible to let her nap in the crib, but she often ends up sleeping in my arms, in my husband's arms, in her wrap, in the stroller... (we are big babywearers, my mother included).

The only thing that's been working at all to help me function is handing the baby off to my mother (she lives with us) or husband for the first four or five hours of the night, and letting them give her a little pumped milk if she wakes up... then cosleeping and nursing her every time she wakes for the rest of the night. But this makes my hubby and mom tired and cranky, too. And just makes them pressure me to try CIO even more.

... ok, see how disorganized my thoughts are due to sleep deprivation?! Help?


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## MeepyCat (Oct 11, 2006)

There's a four month sleep regression, when sleep suddenly goes to hell in a fast car. And then there's a six month sleep regression, where it sounds like you're at right now.

I have a couple of thoughts about this:

1. You say you can't start bedtime routines until 8:30 or 9. Is your baby too tired by the time it gets to bedtime? That could make her wired and more prone to wake up. Is there any way to put her to bed earlier? Could you start the bedtime routine the moment you get home, or if you don't get home until later, have your mom or husband get her down, pump in the evening, and then nurse her during the night?

2. Is co-sleeping still a functional strategy? Some babies actually sleep better when they *aren't* with their parents, and the amount of sleep I got changed radically when we started putting DS to bed in his own room, and instituted the "pee first" rule. We started going to the loo before dealing with the baby because there was never any saying how long it would take to get him back down, and then discovered (at least with our baby) that he often went back to sleep in the time it took us to go to the bathroom. (If the baby's still crying after you've emptied your bladder, by all means go in.)

I hope you can find a solution you can live with. This stage is hard, but rest assured it is not permanent.


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Is she reverse cycling??? It sounds like she might be. Also, what time do you get home in the evening? Is there anyway you can nurse nurse nurse all evening long so that she gets the snuggle time with you (that she misses while you're at work - don't feel guilty!!! Thats NOT my point!), and gets to nurse a ton right before bed? That helped us a bit when my ds would just want mommmmmy when I got home.

Teething could still be the culprit - have you tried tylenol or motrin at bedtime to see if it helps? My ds is a TERRIBLE teether - when he's teething and we don't do tylenol or motrin before bed he's up 6+ times per night. It STINKS.

Also, if you have any luck moving her bedtime a bit earlier that could help too. Can you sleep sidelying nursing? I know by 6mo I couldn't anymore, but some people swear by it.

Good luck!!! Sleep regressions are the WORST. (and if you are stressed, she's totally picking it up)


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## blake201 (May 20, 2010)

Thanks MeepyCat!

1. Yes, I usually get home at 7 or 7:30. The minute I get in the door she wants to nurse, nurse, nurse, and by the time she's nursed on both sides and we've had dinner, it's usually 8:30, and then we do her bath, massage, bedtime story and nursing. She doesn't really go down without nursing first, and it's hard enough being away from her all day--if she was already asleep when I got home, I don't know what I'd do. I know many sleep experts say babies need to go to bed earlier, but she's usually very active and happy in that hour.

2. I'm not sure. I know that bedsharing is tough for me--it hurts my back to sleep in the cramped position I find myself in to give her room. But we don't have the option of her own room--we live in a two-bedroom apartment, and we're in one room with the baby, and my mother stays in the other room during the week (she goes home to see my dad on weekends). So the baby is going to sleep in the same room as someone--either us or my mom. We've tried seeing if she could just sleep in the crib all night, but she usually will only do that for a few hours. And she seems to sleep sounder/longer next to Mommy.

Your "pee first" rule is great! I'll have to try that...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeepyCat*
> 
> There's a four month sleep regression, when sleep suddenly goes to hell in a fast car. And then there's a six month sleep regression, where it sounds like you're at right now.
> 
> ...


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## blake201 (May 20, 2010)

Thanks!

I think she is reverse cycling to some degree. She drinks 8-12 oz of pumped milk during the day (2-3 bottles). I do actually nurse nurse nurse as much as I can in the evening to try to tank her up and get in snuggle time... she's usually on the boob from 7-7:30, 8-8:30, and then straight from 9-10:30 (alternating sides until she passes out).

We have tried infant tylenol for the teething (I read that from Dr. Sears) but it didn't have any affect on the night waking. They haven't actually cut through yet.

Usually I do side-lying nursing for each time that she wakes up in the night, but I can't seem to fall asleep/relax that way until she's done.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Super~Single~Mama*
> 
> Is she reverse cycling??? It sounds like she might be. Also, what time do you get home in the evening? Is there anyway you can nurse nurse nurse all evening long so that she gets the snuggle time with you (that she misses while you're at work - don't feel guilty!!! Thats NOT my point!), and gets to nurse a ton right before bed? That helped us a bit when my ds would just want mommmmmy when I got home.
> 
> ...


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## Momtwice (Nov 21, 2001)

Since others are answering the practical questions:

You could always use the nursing home analogy. You can ask the adults if, when they are elderly, they want the nursing home staff to ignore them if they are in pain or lonely and crying at night.

You can say it gently or firmly. I met a woman who told her mother in law, "I would never leave you alone if you were crying. I would try to help."


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## GoGoGirl (Oct 13, 2008)

Hi mama!

I've been thinking about this...It seems like your DH and mom are really just worried about you and want what's best for YOU. So maybe instead of coming at it from the angle of books and studies that show the problems with CIO, you can just say how YOU would feel about it. Maybe it would get through to them if you say something like, "I know you just want me to be getting more sleep, but I'll be so upset if she's crying alone that there's just no way I'll be able to sleep." Or tell them that it will just stress you out MORE to use a technique that makes you feel like [you're not taking care of her or however it would make you feel]. Is there any other way that they can take on more work so you can get more sleep? Something like making you breakfast while you sleep in a little, or taking care of your DD on weekends so you can catch up on sleep.

You said that you're cramped when you bring DD to bed with you. What's your bed set up like? If you put some kind of rail on the end, would it let you use more of the mattress and be less cramped? I'm just thinking that anything that makes you a little more comfortable in bed will help your sleep quality.

How is it working for YOU to have your mom and DH take the early evening shift so you can sleep? You said it made them crabby, but is it working well enough for you?

I think this was a hard age for sleeping for us, too. It might help to just keep reminding yourself that this will not last forever! I really hope for your sake that you'll all come through this in a few weeks!


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## MeepyCat (Oct 11, 2006)

Let me second the notion that a two-bedroom apartment is not a place where you're going to get any rest while the baby cries.

IT sounds like your baby is actually up until 10:30. It's fine for the baby to be up late, if she can also sleep in in the morning. So whether the lateness is okay really depends on how the mornings work. In terms of getting the baby to bed earlier: your bedtime routine seems really long to me. Can your mom or DH give her a bath before you get home? How vital is the bedtime story? (At that age, my kids liked pictures of other babies and turning pages. We don't do books at bedtime until they're about two.)


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## Tattooed Hand (Mar 31, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeepyCat*
> 
> Let me second the notion that a two-bedroom apartment is not a place where you're going to get any rest while the baby cries.
> 
> IT sounds like your baby is actually up until 10:30. It's fine for the baby to be up late, if she can also sleep in in the morning. So whether the lateness is okay really depends on how the mornings work. In terms of getting the baby to bed earlier: your bedtime routine seems really long to me. Can your mom or DH give her a bath before you get home? How vital is the bedtime story? (At that age, my kids liked pictures of other babies and turning pages. We don't do books at bedtime until they're about two.)


I agree, I think your bedtime routine is unnecessarily long for a 6 month old. We used to do a story before bed when she was 6 months old after I read the NCSS and then dropped it in the attempt to get DD down earlier. Now, at 12 months, we read her books throughout the day and bedtime routine is 30 minutes long. It might help to do start an abbreviated bedtime routine right after that first nurse so that you're starting the bedtime nurse at 8pm. Can you eat dinner while you are doing that first nurse? When I would get home and DD (who has never drank more than 1 oz at a time of pumped milk) would want to nurse, I used to put her on the brestfriend to do her thing and I would chow down.

I thought I'd chime in because your LO sounds like mine, minus 6 months. DD never slept through the night, but I could get a 3-4 hour block of sleep once a night until she turned 5 months and then we were at 30-120 minutes all night long for 5 to 7 nights a week until she was 11 months old. Then two things happened - 1) she started walking (the journey to that really messed with her sleep); 2) and I got serious about the NCSS. I was on the verge of psychotic by this point and read the part in the back that talks about spending a couple of weeks catching up on sleep however you can before giving it a go. I did this how ever I could - sleeping in in the mornings, going to bed super early, napping all afternoon in the weekend. We also bought white noise machines, blackout curtains, and a wearable blanket for DD. I started unlatching her when she seemed to slow down on the nursing. She would often protest in the beginning and I would have to give it back to her, but don't give up! The window was short between when she was done nursing and when she would fall asleep, but you'll get better at finding it. One day, lo and behold, after I unlatched her, not only did she not protest, but she rolled over and settled down into sleep. The last months we've been working on limiting her nursing between 10-4 (like first only 5 minutes, then 4, now 3 minutes) and I'm trying to get her back down with just some shushing and cuddling for that first wakeup before midnight. As a result, we're having more nights of 3 and 4 hour blocks with no wakeups and often I can get her back to sleep with a quick cuddle and shush so that I don't have to nurse her for the first 6 or 7 hours a night. (Of course, I am still not getting this much sleep because her night begins at 7pm). I'm telling you all this to give you hope. Two months ago I was ready to go postal and she was waking up sometimes every 30 minutes. We still have some bad nights because of teething, but with strategic use of pain meds, that's more under control. Milestones still get us too but those nights are exceptions.

My goal (and we are still working on getting there) is to get us to a point where I can get a 4-5 hour block at night and then nurse her after 4 pm as much as she wants.

But I do have to say that my DH and I are on the same page with CIO. It's really hard to not have that support. Others have noted that they seem worried for you and you should let them know your feelings. My friends all think I am crazy for not putting DD in her own room, in a crib and doing either rapid or gradual extinction. But I just cannot do it. It's annoying because DD is the crappiest sleeper of any baby around and the only one that isn't sleep trained (though DH's mother has regaled me with stories of what crappy sleepers DH and both his brothers were, and they slept in their own rooms in cribs). But you know what, this is your baby and you'll be the one who has to listen to her cry and be separated from her

It sounds like you want to sleep but don't want to lose what little time you have with your LO. I totally understand. I would miss my DD if she was in another room. That said, somewhere around 6-7 months, sleeping pressed up against each other wasn't working for either of us. Moving our blankets and sheets around disturbed her and she began flopping and rolling around alot and smacking into us. We sleep on 5 inch foam mattresses on the floor, but we began to put her in her own little twin bed pressed right up against mine. So she is still right there, but less disturbed by my rolling over in my sleep and vice versa. Also, I think I was in fact responding to her too quickly, at times when she wasn't even awake and thus waking her up! There are times when she will stir, and even sit up and cry out and then promptly flop down dead asleep.

I'm still tired, but I am glad we seem to have gotten through the worst of it without doing something that would have felt so incredibly wrong, even though I was desperate for sleep. The NCSS stuff takes longer. The key is to be persistent and consistent. I know that's hard when you are tired. I know! But if you can concentrate on getting more rest how ever you can for a couple of weeks and then keep at it, it might really make a difference.

Hang in there. People who love you want what's best for you, but you don't have to let them force you into doing something you don't feel right about.


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## Tattooed Hand (Mar 31, 2009)

Also, your baby is waking up to nurse because she needs you. Taking you away from her only makes that need worse and could result in some long neverending nights of crying. It's not like those methods are a one shot deal, every time something comes up, like teething or milestones, you'll have to do it again. That's alot of crying.


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## blake201 (May 20, 2010)

GoGoGirl, I think you're right--if I just had a bed rail, we wouldn't be cramped. We have a queen-sized captain's bed, so we're cramped because when DD is in the bed, I sleep at the very very edge of the mattress on my side with baby at boob level, to put as much space between her and hubby as possible (he never rolls over in his sleep and is a light sleeper, but I always hear that dads don't have the same instincts as moms while asleep). So I might try hunting for a bed rail I feel safe with--I just worry about her getting wedged between the rail and the mattress.

MeepyCat and TattooHand, you're both probably right. And thanks for giving me hope! As much as I love her daddy reading her a book each night (and she seems to love it too), he could certainly read it to her earlier and not as part of the routine. She gets so excited by the books (she loves turning the pages and squeals in delight as he reads to her) it probably just winds her up. We could cut it back to just the bath, massage and nursing. (She needs the massage because she has WICKED eczema, and we have to slather on layers of ointments and creams or she wakes herself up trying to scratch her face/stomach/arms/head.)

I do usually nurse her while eating dinner (the second nursing). I've given up trying to make dinner and just let my husband or mom do it.

And that idea about catching up on sleep before really trying to implement NCSS is great--I do spend most weekends napping thanks to husband or my parents--they just wake me up when she wants to nurse.

Oh, and in a bizarre twist--for no apparent reason last night, she just slept straight from 11 p.m. to 7 a.m., without even a slight part-waking. But I doubt it's a trend--she just randomly does that sometimes. I of course woke up engorged around 4 a.m. and stood over her crib trying to decide whether to pick her up and nurse her in her sleep or not... but decided to let her sleep.


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## madskye (Feb 20, 2006)

What about a side car sleeper for her? That might give you all a good amount of room and still maintain closeness.

I'm not actually a babywearer, or a cosleeper, or an extended nurser...but...your baby's only six months old! At that point, I still nursed my DD (now 5) on demand through the night as she needed. It was much as you described--she'd be up once or maybe twice and I could handle that. At six months old, she wasn't eating solid food or anything else but breast milk, and my certainty was that if she was up and crying she was probably hungry.

When she started teething around six months, it was bad. (Again, much as you describe) I didn't think she was teething, and she was absolutely miserable. I was also very hesitant to use the infant tylenol until one day I was zombified and crying in the ladies room, and some nice woman in another department told me DD was probably teething, that it is really painful for them, and that I should try the infant tylenol. And so I did, and it did help. It wasn't a magic solution, she still woke up, but she seemed less frenzied and went back to sleep much easier. And then we went into another cycle. And I still breast fed her, too, because again--she might have been hungry. I never really experienced my baby breastfeeding just to amuse herself--she was either hungry, or she'd root around and gum a bit but not really suck. And to me, that was an indicator that she wasn't actually hungry. I had no problem with giving her a pacifier if I thought that was going to help her, though I know others would disagree with offering pacifiers.

I think, DD, now 5, is a good sleeper and always has been. But to me, that doesn't mean she never wakes up in the middle of the night. I just think that's what a lot of kids do. I think it is important to help them learn to self-soothe and once you are confident that it's not hunger, help them find another means of comfort beyond the breast. But at six months, I'd still be eager to feed the baby if it is an option.

Lastly, I think you need to be either so bone tired that you really don't hear the baby to CIO or just have a certain personality that is able to subscribe to that school of thought. I think, if you have doubts about it, it is 10,000 times more excruciating to sit and listen to your baby cry for a length of time (for sleeptraining) when you could just get up and go hold them and be done with the crying quickly and expediently.


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## blizzard_babe (Feb 14, 2007)

Another option that we've discovered works pretty well... we pushed the bed up against the wall. We did it on DH's side, and he has found that it's WAY more comfortable to sleep right on the edge of the bed if he's next to the wall. Might this help you be more comfortable? We've done this in combination with a sidecarred crib, and we can have plus-sized DH, toddler DS1 (he usually climbs in with us around 5am or so), plus-sized me, and then two month-old DS2 all in "bed" at the same time. DH is up against the wall (if he's not next to a wall he needs to be pretty far from the edge to be comfortable), DS1 is in between us (usually snuggling one or the other of us), I'm next to the sidecarred crib, and DS2 is in aforementioned sidecarred crib (except when he falls asleep on my chest). I can actually side-lying nurse him with him still mostly in the crib. It also worked well, when I was up against the wall; I could kind of lean against it while nursing.

I'm like you... I cannot sleep while nursing. I am incredibly envious of those who can just "give them the boob and sleep through it," because I can't. It's not comfortable at ALL, and I need to sleep in a certain position that is not conducive to nursing (curled up on my side with my arms up in front of my chest/face). I also just need my personal space to get any really restful sleep, which makes co-sleeping... not exactly the miraculous wonder everyone talks it up as. HOWEVER, when we tried putting DS1 into his own space, he woke just as often, and given a choice of lying, wide awake, in bed, and sitting, wide awake, in a chair, co-sleeping won out. It was like the lesser of two evils.

I'm also a WOHM, so I understand reverse cycling. It sounds weird and extreme, but can you do a few shirtless evenings? Like, come home from work, strip down from the waist up, and then carry your DD around in a wrap (at least you'll be mostly "covered") so she just has nursies in her face ALL. Evening. Long. Might be awkward with your mom around, I don't know. I wouldn't want to do it with *MY* mom around, I know that, but... desperate times and all. Sleep issues when you WOH are a nasty beast. Is there a way you can get home at lunch for a nursing? Or can your mom/DH bring her to you on your lunch hour? "Refill the tank," physically and emotionally, one extra time during the day... it's not much, but it might help. Any little improvement is welcome, I know.

Good luck. Things WILL get better. It took a while with DS1, but we got there. I know "it WILL get better" kind of rings hollow when you're running on fumes, but... um... it will.


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## northcountrymamma (Feb 24, 2006)

I just wanted to add my 2cents...having been there....

I found that a late bedtime was really hard on dd...she was just too tired to settle and it affected the entire night. Is there anyway to shorten up the bedtime routine? Even the bath, is there a different time of day that this can be done, or can dh do this while you prepare dinner? The hard part is that it would limit the time you get to spend with your LO before bedtime, but it might help quite a bit. Stories and the like are probably not necessary for a bedtime routine for a 6mo old either...sounds like nursing and snuggling is all she will need. That and the great idea to strip down and wear her all evening (perhaps right after her bath until you have eaten and bedtime comes). And there are some wonderful suggestions about side car-ing the crib...it's honestly one of the best pieces of advice EVER!!!!

hugs mamma...you are doing great...it's just a frustrating time which will most certainly pass!


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## goldenwillow (Jan 5, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *madskye*
> 
> Lastly, I think you need to be either so bone tired that you really don't hear the baby to CIO or just have a certain personality that is able to subscribe to that school of thought. I think, if you have doubts about it, it is 10,000 times more excruciating to sit and listen to your baby cry for a length of time (for sleeptraining) when you could just get up and go hold them and be done with the crying quickly and expediently.


I agree. Sounds like your gut wants to not CIO. For us, we cannot CIO. It goes against all my being to do so. I honestly don't care what others say or have said. My gut says to hold my baby and when I am tired I would much rather hold and nurse my baby then to hear him CIO. Sleeptraining is for the birds to me at this point in a babes life!

Listen to your gut and all will be right.


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## Jend1002 (Feb 2, 2010)

Hi and hugs to you. You got lots of practical advice so I won't try to give you any more. I just wanted to respond to your title - I didn't resist cry it out pressure when I was a complete mess from lack of sleep. I tried it (first time admitting it here, actually) and I am still healing from the trauma. Seriously. I only tried it very briefly out of desperation and it is one of my biggest life regrets. DS is fine - we have an incredible bond and I am completely (ok - maybe not completely....) accepting of his lack of sleep, even at 27 months. Stick with what your gut is telling you and do what is right by you. I didn't and it troubles me to no end. I wish I could take it back!


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## To-Fu (May 23, 2007)

It does look like you got a lot of good practical advice, so I'll take a pass there. But I *can* recommend our bed rail, which is really just a modular set of inexpensive foam bumpers:

http://www.gobedbug.com/GOPAGES/infantcosleep.htm

This way, I can switch sides with the baby and not worry if he's on the edge of the bed b/c there's a bumper there that's soft to stop him from rolling anywhere. It's also nice back support when I'm on that side.


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## melinstar (Dec 9, 2010)

All good advice on how to resist CIO pressure. On making co-sleeping more doable for you, I also LOVE the bed bug bumpers!! I even take one when traveling, and that's all I need to keep the baby from rolling off the bed. I second the bonus back support, too.

Side-car-ing the crib (which I never used anyway), also allows me to lie down to nurse, and then when dd falls asleep, I roll back to my bed. Of course, she always ends up snuggled next to me during the night (at 27 months, she still wakes often, although I have gently gotten her to accept back rubs instead of nursing all the time), but even for the first few hours of the night, it is a kind of freedom. I can even leave the room for a solid hour before she stirs agan. I waited a long time to side-car, and I wish I had done it sooner--from birth even. As a practical matter, there are many instructions on how to side-car, but I found that bed risers under the crib legs and a memory foam topper under the crib mattress were useful tools to get it all to level out.


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## KLM99 (Aug 9, 2007)

I feel you on this! Plus sometimes you just want to complain "ohhhh I'm so tired, I'm not getting any sleep" without someone saying that if you just CIO'd you'd make it a lot easier on yourself. I would love if I could just complain and someone would just say "oh I know - parenting can be exhausting, huh?" I feel like I can't complain about being tired because everyone thinks I'm just being a martyr. No, I'm absolutely sure that I'm doing the right thing, but I'm still exhausted


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