# "May" I start a new NT thread?



## Brisen (Apr 5, 2004)

It's a new month! What's everyone up to?

I have two questions:

1. If my soaked, freshly-ground whole wheat pancakes are light and fluffy and yummy and just slightly sour, without using any yeast, why is my soaked, freshly ground whole wheat yeasted bread dense and thick and crummy?









2. When I cool stock and spoon off the fat, there is always some stock sticking to it. My understanding is that stock goes bad much more quickly than just the fat. Should I worry about getting rid of that stock? Should I just simmer the fat until the stock all evaporates? How long is fat good for in the fridge?


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## Persephone (Apr 8, 2004)

When I went to the store the other day, I picked up some amaranth and quinoa. I have no clue what to do with these, just that I wanted to experiment with some other grains. Anyone have any ideas, other than breakfast cereal? Preferably vegetarian, because we don't have any meat in the house right now.


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## toraji (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brisen*
1. If my soaked, freshly-ground whole wheat pancakes are light and fluffy and yummy and just slightly sour, without using any yeast, why is my soaked, freshly ground whole wheat yeasted bread dense and thick and crummy?









How are you making your bread? Can you describe your procedure? Also, what kind of wheat are you using?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brisen*
2. When I cool stock and spoon off the fat, there is always some stock sticking to it. My understanding is that stock goes bad much more quickly than just the fat. Should I worry about getting rid of that stock? Should I just simmer the fat until the stock all evaporates? How long is fat good for in the fridge?

What we usually do is put it in a jar in the fridge and let it harden. Then you can pop the fat layer off the stock, wash it off with water, and then store in a different jar back in the fridge. It usually lasts us a couple weeks, though I've never had any on hand longer than that. But you'd probably be able to tell if it went bad, it would most likely smell "off".

On amaranth and quinoa, I exclusively do amaranth as a breakfast porridge (because it gets gummy any other way) and quinoa as a side grain since it has such a savory flavor. You can also use quinoa as a couscous replacement, so you can sautee vegetables and then mix into the cooked quinoa, fluff it all together with seasonings and eat. Depending on how you dress it it could either go like a stirfry/fried rice or a cold salad.

It's been a while since I made quinoa, but I would do 1 cup of grain to 2 cups of water, bring to a boil then turn down real low and cook for 20 minutes. If you soak it overnight then it would probably be more like 10 minutes. You'll be able to tell if it needs more cooking if you look at the grain, it will have an opaque spot in it if it's not quite done. After times up then fluff with a spoon so it doesn't turn into a brick.


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## Hibou (Apr 7, 2003)

Just wanted to pop in and say that I'm still here! I haven't been keeping up with the threads much lately- trying to get my house under control. I made a big batch of kimchi yesterday and after having gotten away from fermented foods for a bit am trying to incorporate them back into our menu. Made some nice sourdough bread recently, so here's the recipe:

Sourdough soda bread:
Day 1: Feed your starter the night before so that you will have 3 c. to use the next day. Day 2: Measure the 3 c. starter into a glass bowl. Add 2 tsp soda, 1/2 c. olive oil (or melted butter), 1/4 c. honey or maple syrup, and 1 tsp. salt. Add enough flour (I used all whole wheat) for a kneadable dough.
Let it rise all day, then punch down and shape into a loaf. Let it rise overnight, and then... Day 3: bake in the morning for about an hour at 350.


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## Hibou (Apr 7, 2003)

toraji- I just saw the pictures of your bread on your blog. They are beautiful, artistic loaves! Have you posted your recipes somewhere?


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## .:Becca:. (Apr 26, 2005)

Quote:

1. If my soaked, freshly-ground whole wheat pancakes are light and fluffy and yummy and just slightly sour, without using any yeast, why is my soaked, freshly ground whole wheat yeasted bread dense and thick and crummy?
Try using 1/4c vital wheat gluten per loaf. Since I've been using wheat gluten, my whole wheat loaves are alot softer and not so crumby. Also, make sure you give the dough a long kneading time. Whole wheat needs a longer kneading time to develop it's gluten. Good luck!


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## gardenmommy (Nov 23, 2001)

So my kefir has been going like gangbusters doing its thing. However, it's getting a little slimy looking. I tried rinsing the grains, but it doesn't look any better. It doesn't smell quite the same, either. What changed? What do I need to do with my grains to get the kefir I was getting?


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## cathe (Nov 17, 2002)

Just wanted to add a note about amaranth - you may want to combine it with other grains as amaranth by itself has a kind of strange texture that you might not like.

Here's a combination we like:

High-Protein Porridge
This cereal is a good source of minerals and B vitamins, as well as protein.

1/3 cup quinoa
1/3 cup millet
1/3 cup amaranth
5 cups water
Pinch sea salt
1/4 cup flax or hemp seeds, ground (optional)
1 teaspoon ground cinnamon or cardamom (optional)

Rinse quinoa. Place grains, water, and sea salt in heavy-bottomed pot. Bring to a boil over high heat. Reduce heat and simmer uncovered 25 to 30 minutes, stirring occasionally to prevent cereal from sticking to bottom of pan. Stir in ground seeds and spices.

Makes 4 servings


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## cathe (Nov 17, 2002)

I have a soy question?

NT says that only fermented soy is healthy and that soaking soy beans is not enough. Does anyone know, if I soak my soy beans with whey to ferment them and use that in my soy milk - will that do? Or - if I culture my soy into yogurt?


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## Brisen (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *toraji*
How are you making your bread? Can you describe your procedure? Also, what kind of wheat are you using?

Yeah, that probably would have helped.









I have mostly used all whole wheat flour -- I grind a bunch when I borrow a friend's grinder and freeze it. I use a breadmaker, I go by the recipe in the book but I mix the liquid and flour beforehand to soak. I have soaked it in yogurt and in sour milk -- 1 c. liquid to 2 1/4 c. flour. Then the recipe is 3/4 tsp salt, 1 (2?) tbsp butter, 1 1/2 tbsp sugar (I use honey), and 1 1/2 tsp yeast. So I soak the flour for 12-24 hours, put it in the breadmaker, add the other stuff, and just start the breadmaker. I also tried after reading about it here mixing up everything but the yeast in the machine the night before, then just adding in the yeast and starting it up. Always dense loaves. I have tried subbing up to a cup of unbleached white flour, and it didn't seem to help much.

On my last loaf I tried soaking 1 1/4 c. ww flour in 1 c. of water and whey, then the next day I added 1 c. unbleached white flour, and the other ingredients. That loaf has turned out quite well, actually. But I would like to see if I can make one out of all ww flour. I ran out of my ground stuff for a while, and was just making white bread. Man, did I notice the difference. So I don't want to have loaves all the time that are only really half ww.

Quote:

What we usually do is put it in a jar in the fridge and let it harden. Then you can pop the fat layer off the stock, wash it off with water, and then store in a different jar back in the fridge.
I don't know why I didn't just think of washing it off. Thanks!

Becca, is the wheat gluten something I would find at a bulk store?


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## Brisen (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cathe*
I have a soy question?

NT says that only fermented soy is healthy and that soaking soy beans is not enough. Does anyone know, if I soak my soy beans with whey to ferment them and use that in my soy milk - will that do? Or - if I culture my soy into yogurt?

What I would do is look into how to make the fermented soy that is considered safe, and see if you can incorporate that much soaking/fermenting into whatever you are making. I tried making tofu a long time ago, it was basically just make soy milk, and then curdle it into soy cheese. I imagine that soy yogurt would be analogous to tofu. Just plain soy milk, I don't know. Hopefully someone else will have actual facts for you, and not just wild guesses.


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## SimplyMama (Nov 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brisen*
It's a new month! What's everyone up to?

I have two questions:

1. If my soaked, freshly-ground whole wheat pancakes are light and fluffy and yummy and just slightly sour, without using any yeast, why is my soaked, freshly ground whole wheat yeasted bread dense and thick and crummy?









2. When I cool stock and spoon off the fat, there is always some stock sticking to it. My understanding is that stock goes bad much more quickly than just the fat. Should I worry about getting rid of that stock? Should I just simmer the fat until the stock all evaporates? How long is fat good for in the fridge?

I use a Bosch to make my bread, and it's stressed to use as little flour as poss. to make your bread. I found that when I used too little though, my bread was heavy and sometimes almost 'gummy' in the center. It didn't slice well, either. When I added a bit more than usual, enough to clean the sides of the bowl very well, my bread is lighter and fluffier. Maybe adding up to a 1/4 or so of flour to the recipe might help?


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

Glad to see the thread rolling along!

Anyone have a recipe for Swiss Steak?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Hey, I just made Swiss Steak last night! This is my grandmother's recipe. She was a nurse, so she used to get home in the middle of the afternoon, start dinner, and then take a nap while it was cooking









SWISS STEAK
1 1/2 lbs. cube steak
flour
salt & pepper
1 - 2 cups beef broth
6 sliced carrots
1 large onion, sliced
2-3 ribs celery, sliced

Dust steak in flour, sprinkle with salt & pepper. Brown in butter in a medium hot skillet.

Oil a rectangular baking dish. Place in steak and vegetables. Add broth, and then enough water to bring up to top of vegetables. Bake 1 1/2 hrs. at 350, stirring a couple times during last half hour. Serve over mashed potatoes.


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## Threefold (Nov 27, 2001)

can I just lurk? I've been off NT for a few years (not sure why, just slipped off the wagon







) but this recent bout with strep has me ready to start it up again.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

Thanks Jane! So do you think I could substitute round steak for cube? And could I use tomatoes instead of the beef stock?

Yum! I think I will include some shitake mushrooms too!


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

Oh and Welcome Dalai Mama!


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## 4cornersmamma (Aug 29, 2004)

:


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mountain mom*
Thanks Jane! So do you think I could substitute round steak for cube? And could I use tomatoes instead of the beef stock?

Yum! I think I will include some shitake mushrooms too!

I don't know steak cuts at all, I'm so pathetic (former veg.) but I don't see why not, as long as it's thin... you can pound to be a little less than 1/2" thick.

Mushrooms sound awesome.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

Yeah I know what you mean about steak cuts. I had my first bison steak ever 2 days ago. Its the first time I have had red meat in steak form in 15 years.! It was a round steak and it was kinda tough even though I marinated it for 24 hours. I remember my Mom would make swiss steak at least once a week as a kid.


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## gardenmommy (Nov 23, 2001)

Ok. I'm still having some trouble with my kefir. It smells more like plain old sour milk than fermented milk. Why? What am I doing wrong?

Help!


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

I would ask Heather, aka Xenabyte.

She is such a wealth of info.

I have been off Kefir for about 2 months. My guess is that the milk is too cold or the grains need less milk or a fast. All those are a consideraton.

You could check out Dom's site, although it is a large, vast site.

I would pm Heather.









Wow I am chatty tonight.


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## Pilgrim (Dec 12, 2004)

Hey y'all! Wow I can't believe how time flies. I have forgotten for several months to re-subscribe to the new NT thread. So here I am, mostly lurking as I don't know if I have anything to contribute yet!


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

:


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## gardenmommy (Nov 23, 2001)

Hmmm... thanks, MM, I think I will pm her. See if I can do some trouble shooting.


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## Aiti (Dec 24, 2003)

Hi! I am trying to improve my nutrition and I am also trying to kick a nasty sugar habit. I just bought the NT book and it's fascinating reading. I am looking forward to gaining knowledge from you all and benefiting from your experience. Thanks for letting me







:


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## Pilgrim (Dec 12, 2004)

Please forgive me, as I'm going to cross post this in a couple of places (including another board....) It's a breastfeeding issue, a health issue, and a fertility issue.

First, let me say that I am totally on board with NT, and I think that my WAP reading is heavily influencing my thought process with this. Here goes:

This is a bit of a long story, but I am sad at the thought of weaning my daughter. But I don't think I have much of a choice. Here's the story...

DD will be 2 years old in 2 weeks. She adores her "Na Na" and asks for it many times per day. I had set some limits in the past and she took well to those, but then she got sick, went through teething, and then we moved - so I have resumed nursing her pretty much on request. But, that's neither here nor there.

The REAL problem is her severe food allergies. She is severely allergic to milk, eggs, avocado, and banana. She also has eczema flares to wheat, soy, and glutens. We also haven't even approached trying out nuts and don't intend to. So of course, I don't eat the foods that she can't have. It's been quite a tough road, but I've been successful with it and am much healthier now because of my research on nutrition. I don't mind eating this way, but I do look forward to having a more full diet some day.

So DH and I had decided a long time ago that we would probably try to conceive when DD reached age 1 or 2. We are ALL ready for me to be pregnant, but my fertility has not returned. I think my body knows what it's doing by not becoming fertile. I simply do not think that I could support a healthy pregnancy with all of those things removed from my diet.

So I am considering weaning DD so that I could take some time to replenish my body's nutrients, have my fertility return, and become pregnant, if the Lord so wills it. *IF* I were to wean her, I think I would take about 6 months and formulate a plan for it. But I am truly conflicted about it because I also wish to allow her to wean herself. But that would mean putting off a pregnancy that we all very much want.

OK you should also know more reasons. I am 32. I was hoping to be finished birthing children by age 38-40 at most. We know we want one more child, but I secretly (ok, DH knows this!) hope to have 2, maybe 3 more. And, we have felt blessed (up until now) that my fertility has not yet returned, because we are enjoying the time that we have with DD, and like the spacing. I just thought I'd throw that out there so you'd know some more of my rational.

I'm also planning to discuss this with the naturopathic doctor, and a nutritionist. One other major issue is that I am currently DD's major source of calcium. So her nutritional needs would need addressing before I could consider doing this. But the ND put her on a calcium supplement, so she now has another source.

I'd love opinions on this - good, bad, and ugly. I really need some help with this decision. I've been praying a lot about it, but am still very conflicted and don't feel any leading in any direction. Thanks so much!


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## TopazBlueMama (Nov 23, 2002)

Well I've jumped back in the wagon today, finally. I've been away from home too much lately on trips, so it's been hard to stay real healthy. But I'm motivated to get back on now for sure.
I went out to the farm today and got my pastured eggs and raw milk and cream, and went to the organic coop and got a tray of wheatgrass for juicing (then I'll start growing my own).

I got my raw milk yogurt and kefir going tonight, and also started a batch of beet kvass. I'm getting in my cod liver oil and coconut oil too. Now I just need to make a big batch of chicken stock and I'm well on my way!








My garden is starting to look tasty too.









Pilgrim.
You're in for a tough decision, aren't ya? I'm wanting to go on the side of validating your feelings of wanting to wean for all of those reasons you listed. Now, I don't believe in weaning before 18-24 months so that you can get pregnant, but since your baby has already had 2 years of good nursing, I think starting to gently wean would be helpful for your fertility and *your* health situation, especially if you want to gain more strength and nutrition before you get pregnant again.
Remember to make a lot of stock for your baby for the needed nutrients and calcium. Personally, I'd also do the cod liver oil. I'm completely convinced that we need the extra vitamins a and D, as well as the fat for the children.
Hopefully she can tolerate those things! Wow, that is a lot of food to have to worry about.
Good luck with your decision!


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## toraji (Apr 3, 2003)

Brisen, I think that you may need more kneading to let the gluten develop. It is also possible that the other ingredients besides flour, water, salt, and yeast, are interfering with gluten development. If you're soaking in yogurt/whey then the lacto beasties will eat the gluten and give you a soggy loaf. I think yogurt/whey should only be added to quick breads (like naan), something you don't want really chewy.

I'm just taking a guess here, but try mixing everything together the night before with only a little bit of yeast. The yeast will multiply overnight so you don't need as much as if you are doing a quick bread. Probably 1/4 tsp if it is about 68 degrees in the house, less if it is warmer. Let sit and ferment overnight. Then the next morning take it out of the pan, knead until the dough feels "alive" (like a baby's bottom), let rest, knead another time or 2 during the day then bake. Hopefully that will do it!

Hibou, I will start a new thread with my bread recipe (actually my DH's primer on making bread, he's a bread perfectionist :LOL)

Pilgrim, my DD has some severe food allergies too (though not as big a list as yours!) so I totally empathize. We recently day weaned her because she would NOT eat during the day, only little bits here and there, and just drain me. I really do think the food allergies were part of it, eating food that makes you feel bad can be scary! But the milk was safe so she would eat that almost exclusively.

So I say do what you need to do. 2 years is an admirable length of time.









I agree with the PP about bone broths and cod liver oil. Also, lots and lots of greens, very high in minerals! Try a cooked puree or also you can do blended salads (cold veggie soup) for raw enzymes and high nutrients.


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## cathe (Nov 17, 2002)

I just read this book that I think would be of interested to NTers, "Last Chance to Eat: The fate of taste in a fast food world" by Gina Mallet. It gives a history of eggs, dairy, beef, fish, etc and about how they were ruined by the food industry. For example, how raw dairy became outlawed, the factory farming of eggs and beef, etc. Very interesting stuff.


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## Thursday Girl (Mar 26, 2004)

hi.

what's NT?

does anyone know about making bread in crockpots, our ovens broken.

I am still confused about Kefir.

I want to be healthier, I do. That's why I am here.

Courtney


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Hi Courtney









NT refers to Nourishing Traditions, the cookbook by Sally Fallon that is based on the nutritional research of the Weston A. Price Foundation.

www.westonaprice.org

It is actually half cookbook and half guidelines for nutrition. It's really fascinating reading with stories of traditional diets as well as current medical research. It is based on a whole foods diet and debunks the current popular nutritional model of a low fat low cholesterol diet completely. Soaked whole grains (to remove anti-nutrients called phytates that inhibit digestion), fermented veggies and dairy to add beneficial bacteria, meat, eggs, full fat (preferably raw) dairy are some of the cornerstones of traditional healthy diets that supply about 4x the current RDA's for vitamins and minerals.

Their argument is very convincing. Check out the website for a ton of info, you'll be lost for days...









This is the most popular work of Weston Price, also fascinating reading:
http://www.westonaprice.org/bookreviews/napd.html

For me, it makes complete sense that our current state of modern disease has a central and most basic cause: modern diets.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Oh and about kefir. There are two types: from grains and from powder.

Both are made at room temperature.

The grains, if taken care of, can last forever. This is the best site for info:
http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefirpage.html
Usually you add about 1/4-1/2 cup of grains to a quart jar and keep at room temp for 24 hours until thick. You strain out the grains, add more milk and keep reusing them.The kefir will keep refrigerated for about a week. The grains gradually grow in size, so you can freeze them for backup or give them away to friends to start their own cultures. Or of course, eat them.

The powder (I like Body Ecology's) is convenient. One box, although $24, can make more than 36 gallons because a small amount can be used as a starter for subsequent batches.

If you have any specific questions, fire away!


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## Brisen (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SimplyMama*
I use a Bosch to make my bread, and it's stressed to use as little flour as poss. to make your bread. I found that when I used too little though, my bread was heavy and sometimes almost 'gummy' in the center. It didn't slice well, either. When I added a bit more than usual, enough to clean the sides of the bowl very well, my bread is lighter and fluffier. Maybe adding up to a 1/4 or so of flour to the recipe might help?

Oooooh, you have a Bosch? I'm thinking of getting one. Which one do you have? Do you like how it works? Kitchen Aid mixers were on sale everywhere here the week before Mothers Day, I was tempted to get one, but I thought the Bosch might be better. I'm hoping to get it to put Family Grain Mill attachments on it, I don't suppose you use them?

I'm making my bread in a breadmaker right now, so I try to be careful not to put in too much stuff. I don't like having to scrape the bread off the top of the machine. Of course, with my soaked ww bread being so dense, there's not much danger of that happening....


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## Brisen (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *toraji*
Brisen, I think that you may need more kneading to let the gluten develop. It is also possible that the other ingredients besides flour, water, salt, and yeast, are interfering with gluten development. If you're soaking in yogurt/whey then the lacto beasties will eat the gluten and give you a soggy loaf. I think yogurt/whey should only be added to quick breads (like naan), something you don't want really chewy.

I'm just taking a guess here, but try mixing everything together the night before with only a little bit of yeast. The yeast will multiply overnight so you don't need as much as if you are doing a quick bread. Probably 1/4 tsp if it is about 68 degrees in the house, less if it is warmer. Let sit and ferment overnight. Then the next morning take it out of the pan, knead until the dough feels "alive" (like a baby's bottom), let rest, knead another time or 2 during the day then bake. Hopefully that will do it!

Thanks, I'll try this. I have been using a breadmaker, but I think I am going to do it the "old fashioned way" until I get the hang of it, then let myself cheat. I also read the other day that honey can inhibit yeast -- anyone know if this is true? That's what I usually use in my bread (I use brown sugar if I'm too lazy to hack off a hunk of hardened honey).


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## nini2033a (Apr 11, 2005)

Honey may inhibit yeast, however, I made an ezekial bread today that had me add honey directly to the water and yeast and it rose beautifully.
Karen


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## cathe (Nov 17, 2002)

Can you share your ezekial bread recipe?


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## gardenmommy (Nov 23, 2001)

Yes Yes!! Please do post your ezekial recipe! I am most interested in this!

Not doing too well with everything in NT, right now. We've been eating sugar likes it's the only thing around. We've had birthday parties, year-end parties, recitals, church gatherings, and more.

Mostly, we're just trying to keep on with our fresh veggies, salads, smoothies, soaked grains, raw dairy, and pastured meats. We've been eating out far too frequently; it's hard when we have to be somewhere right in the middle of dinner time.

Still, I must confess, we, as a family, are ADDICTED to sugar!! Help!


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## nini2033a (Apr 11, 2005)

Actually, it is not my recipe, it is from Xenabyte, I found it somewhere a couple days ago and copied it happily because it contains no Soy like all the ones in the stores and I am highly allergic to soy.
I had to make a few substitutions to her recipe but it turned out great.

No Knead Ezekiel Bread (with my substitutions)

2.5 cups wheat berries (mine were sprouted)
1.5 cups Spelt
.5 cup pearl Barley
.5 cup millet (I couldn't find any in the stores so I used brown rice)
.25 cup green lentils (I used red)
2 TBS dry great white northern beans (Navy beans)
2 TBS dry kidney beans
2 TBS dried Pinto beans
4 cups warm water
1 cup honey ( I ran out so used .5 cup honey,.5 cup maple syrup--yum)
.5 cup Olive Oil (I used virgin coconut oil)
2 pkgs active dry yeast
2 TBS Sea Salt (I used only 1TBS)
2TBS sunflower seeds (grind seperately)
2TBS flax seed (grind separately)

mix water, honey,oil and yeast in large glass bowl. Let sit 3-5 minutes
Stir all grains and Legumes together (not seeds, they are too oily and will kill your grain mill, use a coffee bean grinder for these)and grind into a fine flour.
Add to liquid ingredients, stir until well mixed. The dough will be like that of batter bread. Pour dough into greased (with coconut oil) bread pans, (2-3).
Let rise in a warm place for 1 hour, should reach top of pans. Bake at 350 for about 45 minutes.
Was the most sucessful bread I have made to date.


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## Hibou (Apr 7, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cathe*
I just read this book that I think would be of interested to NTers, "Last Chance to Eat: The fate of taste in a fast food world" by Gina Mallet. It gives a history of eggs, dairy, beef, fish, etc and about how they were ruined by the food industry. For example, how raw dairy became outlawed, the factory farming of eggs and beef, etc. Very interesting stuff.

I just requested the book from my library. Looking forward to reading it- sounds super interesting. Thanks for the suggestion.

Thought I'd share my ezekiel bread recipe too. I was really surprised the first time I made it how light it turned out, because I was expecting it to be a really heavy, dense bread.

Ezekiel Bread
Day 1
1c. spelt or rye grains
½ c. pearled barley
¼ c. lentils
¼ c. millet or quinoa
6-9 Tbsp dried beans and/or field peas

Rinse beans and grains.
Cover with water and soak at least 6 hours.
Drain.
Transfer beans and grains to blender. Add enough water to cover.
Grind until soupy (this may have to be done in 2 batches).
Transfer ground mixture to large bowl.
Stir in:
2 ½ c. whole wheat flour
2 Tbsp yeast
1/3 c. honey

Cover and let sit overnight.

Day 2
Fold in:
1 Tbsp salt
1/3 c. olive oil
(optional: fold in 2 eggs and 1 c. pureed vegetable or fruit)

Slowly add enough flour to knead. (This dough will have a somewhat stickier texture than 100% whole wheat.)
Knead well.
Put in greased bowl and cover.
Let rise until doubled.
Punch down.
Let rise until doubled.
Punch down.
Shape into loves or rolls and place in greased pans.
Let rise until nearly doubled.
Bake at 350 for 1 hour for loaves, 35 min for rolls, or until golden brown.
Turn out of pans to cool.

edited to add: I find that smaller loaves work better with this recipe as the big ones occasionally don't cook through, so if you do make bigger loaves, maybe try a lower temp and cook a little longer.


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## mamalex (Mar 2, 2004)

Yippee! I knew there would be an NT gang here. Looking to not feel like a freak as we work harder to do what Sally suggests. Dh is completely obsessed with this book, and I must say we've had it for 2 years and warmed up to it very slowly. I was a vegetarian for almost 10 years- talk about a paradigm shift.

Right now, we mainly are soaking our grains and fermenting some veggies here and there. We made the recipe for Indian idlis (ferm. rice and lentil pancakes) very stinky, but yummy. Great toddler food. Dh wants to make kefir but needs a starter, so we're on the search. I've never done much with the dairy stuff (except separate the whey.) We don't have a good raw milk source yet, although last year we got a lot of raw goat's milk. We just started eating a little fish and want to eat meat, but want to do it right.

We're having terrible allergies this year (cats, grasses, etc.), and I've been fighting stomach problems my whole life. Does anyone have any experience with any of these? Dh has become very cynical about the allergies and has decided he'll just suffer because "nothing works."

Glad to subscribe here.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Welcome







I'm new to NT too!
You are lucky you have the support of your DH. What kind of stomach trouble? I highly recommend kefir, I'm sure you will see a huge difference with it. I started it quite a while ago, but didn't stick with it. Now I'm drinking everyday and I've seen great changes in my digestion/elimination and tolerance of carbs.

And, gee... now that I think of it... I don't have hay fever this spring... hmmmm?!

I got some grains from someone on the Kefir_making Yahoo Group. They were pricey ($25) but I got over a half cup of excellent quality grains grown in goats milk that are making a good quart or more of kefir for me right away. PM me if you would like contact info.

There is also lists of people willing to share grains for postage fees only at these sites:
http://66.46.11.99/clarkson/Show/Cla...ir/default.asp
http://www.rejoiceinlife.com/kefir/kefirlist.php


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## cathe (Nov 17, 2002)

There are several people here at MDC who share kefir grains as well - for only the cost of shipping. I know Gale Force and Xenabyte have extra now and then - and I think I rememer seeing a thread not too long ago with someone offering grains. Do a search and I bet you'll turn up something.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Hey, hey wonderful ladies!

It's been forever and a day since I've been around. I hope you all are doing well.

*kefir grains* Didn't I say once that I'd have grains to share "until Jesus comes back"? Well, after that fast in January when I got down to a tsp of grains, I really haven't gotten back up. It's been cold, I've slowed production and consumption, I've been using grains for fermented fruit drinks. So I don't have any now, but probably will in a few weeks. Definitely post asking. I have sent out grains to at least 25 people here at MDC and xenabyte's sent out a passle. There should be some spares floating around.

*babies* Pilgrim, I hear you. I like the plan to gently wean. She may not wean entirely for another year, who knows. But at least you will have fewer nutrients going out in that time. What do you feel like you need to eat that you cannot eat now? And have you tried liver???? I know, I know. I don't really care for it, but I do eat it. We just made some meatballs with 25% liver and 75% ground beef. It's better than liver and onions which I am sick to death of.

*my update* I've been so busy with my work and hit a bit of a depressive slump. My energy is diving. I realize that it's been so stressful, I've forgotten the fundamentals. Here I sit addicted to caffeine yet again. Up to 3 cups of tea, down to 2 now. Wine at night. Getting fat from it. So I am working on it again. I started getting very depressed about the huge amount of work we have to do on our house - lots of structural stuff. I am searching for someone in the area who works on historic homes. I've decided that my best strategy is to focus on my health, so I can work hard and make money to pay the team. I cleaned some clutter which helped a great deal and took some photos.


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## 4cornersmamma (Aug 29, 2004)

I am going to make some pemmican for a camping trip, I bought all the stuff to do it. Does anyone have any suggestions or comments for me?


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## earthchick (Sep 30, 2004)

Hi all. I haven't posted to the NT threads lately, though I do still lurk. I haven't been doing much NT stuff other than making yogurt, and I've also been all over the map in terms of my thoughts about my diet. I have been inspired by a thread on the Fitness and Weight Management thread about the book Eat to Live. The experiences of cjr (a poster to these NT threads) and others have been inspiring and I am persuaded that, at the very least, I need to be eating much more fruit, veggies, and beans.

My big question right now is dairy. I love dairy, in pretty much any form. And I was persuaded by Sally Fallon that it was important. I am esp. committed to probiotics (usually in the form of yogurt which I eat almost daily and my sons have every day). The author of Eat to Live makes a compelling case against any animal proteins, including dairy. As I have pondered his arguments, I find myself continually coming back to what seems to be a big criteria for me: what is most natural?

I truly believe it is natural for humans to eat some meat. I also believe it is natural for humans to eat eggs, just as some other animals do. But I am having a hard time figuring out how it is natural for humans to eat/drink the milk of another animal. I can't think of other examples in the animal kingdom of this occurring.

So I am turning to you guys to help me get some clarity. The people in this forum have such a commitment to natural nutrition, even though that commitment is expressed in different ways (NT, veganism, vegetarianism, raw food, etc.). I really resonate with the NT way, so I'd like to hear from other NT folks about how you have decided that it is natural to consume dairy. I hope it's okay to ask this on this thread. I didn't want to start a separate thread about it, b/c I didn't want to start a debate with those who already have a very different viewpoint from me.


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## Pilgrim (Dec 12, 2004)

Ya know Stacey - I think that's a very good question, and I'm eager to hear other people's responses too. My own ND, who is also into NT and WAP, also thinks it's not natural to drink milk. Personally, I've never given it much thought. I grew up drinking milk, so it's completely normal to me. AND, now that DD can't have a trace of it, I am used to not having milk. But, our lives would sure be easier if we could have it!


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## farmer mama (Mar 9, 2004)

Hi NT mamas. Have any of you made the almond no-flour cake in her sweets section. How does it turn out? TIA


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Stacey – my chiropractor is very critical of any dairy that’s not cultured. So he would recommend yogurt or kefir or, I suppose, cultured butter and cream. Most of our dairy is cultured. We do have some cream that is not, but that’s not really a health decision, just what we “want” to eat.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

We don't eat any dairy that isn't cultured. Very minimal amount of dairy as well with perhaps a 1/4 cup of youghurt or a tablespoon of butter a day. Cultured butter that is









We have no dairy sensitivities though. Remember that what works for one, may not for another. I go through stages where I do not eat any dairy for months then it is a part of my diet daily.

It is all about a balance. I have done all the variations to the theme, raw foodist, vegan, vegetarian, fruitarian and now I eat chicken, fish, bison, dairy in addition to tons of veg and fruit, legumes prepared properly, ferments, nuts and seeds. I have finally found a balance of things. I don't eat more than about 3 servings of flesh a week, but I have bone broth three times daily.

Find your balance with the dairy, your body will give you its clues.


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## earthchick (Sep 30, 2004)

I guess what I'm really interested in finding out is how dairy in any form (cultured or not) can really be considered natural. How did humans first decide to drink the milk of cows and goats? Anyone know any theories about this, or anthropological studies? Are there any other animals who drink the milk of different species?

I personally feel fine on dairy and particularly feel good about including homemade whole milk yogurt. But as I think about what type of diet we were made to eat, I find myself wondering if we were really designed to be consuming the milk of another animal. (Truthfully, I hope so, because I love it! :LOL ) I am really curious if anyone has any explanation of how it is natural for us to do so.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Well I'm sure every person would have a different definition of what "natural" means... even the so called experts in the field.

My defination is if it's not an over-processed "modern" food, if it contains beneficial nutrients for human health, and humans from every corner of the globe eat it, it's natural for human consumption.

I've been very impressed by Weston Price's research showing that cultures who eat a great deal of dairy get all of their necessary mega nutrients and have kick ass immune systems like we as humans are meant to have. To me, it proves the question, but I'm an overeager newly NT gal right now









Pasteurization and homogenization is definately not natural.

But I will say I still have to get used to the taste of raw milk, that's been a challenge.


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Haven't been around MDC in awhile but this dairy discussion resonates with me right now. All our dairy is raw organic, except for yogurt which is only organic. But I'm feeling like so much dairy isn't quite on tho my ND feels it's actually beneficial in the proper form--full fat, cultured and raw perferably goat. Anyway I'm in a conundrum because I use a fair bit of it. Raw milk in my tea, raw butter on potatoes and sourdough, raw cheese and yogurt. Daily. My concern is with dioxins and the like. Organic is not a guarantee against these tho it does help somewhat. Anyone else share these concerns?


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

JaneS, totally agree with your rationale on the dairy issue. I am big into heritage and ansestory with regards to food intake. My heritage is northern European so cultured dairy is an important part of my diet. I think that it is 'natural' for some to consume dairy. It is not natural to consume ultra pasterized dairy or cheese from milk that isn't raw. IMO. I have no studies to back that up. I just know how basterdized the dairy industry has become and that is due to the imbalance of the average diet in north america. I think the amount of dairy that is consumed that isn't cultured or raw in our world is unnatural. And then when the dairy is cultured it is ruined with additives, sugars and artifical colour rendering the healthy bacteria inert.

Dioxin poisioning is real. I think alot about that. I try to maintain moderation with dairy. I also consume chlorella daily in hopes that it will bond to the toxin and digest.


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Yes, chlorella is a good way to take out the toxins and heavy metals but my nd also advised on being very careful of the source of your chlorella. Apparently there is the potential for chlorella to do what it does in the body and that is bind with any heavy metals and contaminants in the environment it is growing thus doing the opposite of what one wants, bringing toxins in.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mountain mom*
Dioxin poisioning is real. I think alot about that.

Oh lordy...what don't I know now. I've never heard of dioxins in milk and how they get there?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **solsticemama**
Yes, chlorella is a good way to take out the toxins and heavy metals but my nd also advised on being very careful of the source of your chlorella. Apparently there is the potential for chlorella to do what it does in the body and that is bind with any heavy metals and contaminants in the environment it is growing thus doing the opposite of what one wants, bringing toxins in.

Yes, my holistic dentist said the same thing. She trusts Dr. Mercola's recs and he recommends a brand that is from Yaeyama:
http://www.mercola.com/chlorella/processing.htm

I wonder if Jarrow's Yaeyama is also a good one (it's cheaper and easier to get)
http://www.jarrow.com/products/Yaeyamachlorella.htm


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

You know I hesitated about posting the chlorella stuff. I mean there is always something one can focus on but I figured I wasn't telling mountain mom anything new. As she said it's all about balance.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **solsticemama**
You know I hesitated about posting the chlorella stuff. I mean there is always something one can focus on but I figured I wasn't telling mountain mom anything new. As she said it's all about balance.

Well I for one greatly appreciate every mama here who has not held back this kind of info and told things like it is.

I really think it has changed my family's life.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Well I for one greatly appreciate every mama here who has not held back this kind of info and told things like it is.

I really think it has changed my family's life.









Ditto on that!!


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## annasmom (Oct 1, 2002)

It has been a very long time since I visited this site . I am now a mom of 2...wahoo!

I have been reading NT over the past month and raw milk has been the first major change....oh yeah...I have been soaking grains.

So, dd threw up tonight (3 years old) and last night she had a stomach ache and I may have jumped into the raw milk thing too fast?
She doesnt' seem sick (no fever, is acting completely normal). But I just want to know if others experienced these changes. She probably has been drinking 6-8 ounces of milk a day (since Thursday).

My husband says he noticed no difference but I have felt gassy and just fuller since we started drinking it 3 days ago. I have kept the amount we all drank pretty small, but should I have started with cultured raw dairy products to ease us into the new organisms (cultured with our regular yogurt organims)?

Feeling a little overwhelmed, actually. 35 years of thinking unpasteurized milk can make you sick...hard to change that line of thinking.

thanks ya'll
Kirsten

mom to Anna and Chloe








girl:


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## toraji (Apr 3, 2003)

I personally haven't read it, but heard that it's full of history on dairy:
http://www.newtrendspublishing.com/USOMilk/
It's called "The Untold Story of Milk" by Ron Schmid, ND.

According to the introduction (which you can download as a PDF), fermented milk products have been part of history for a long time but fresh sweet milk drinking did not become popular until the 1850's.

Now the question of what's natural? Certainly dairy is not what hunter/gatherers evolved on. It would be more at home in an agricultural/herding society. Humans, just like other animals, are opportunistic. Which means, anything edible is fair game whether animal, vegetable, or mineral. So I don't know who decided that it was a great idea to start domesticating animals and drinking their milk, but now it has become quite normal for many cultures.

(There is a great old Darigold poster I've seen that shows a pig nursing off a cow on a farm. Opportunism in action!)

So if you take a paleo approach to things, dairy is not "normal". However, using that same brush you'd have to admit that most of our vegetables and fruits are also not "normal", as they have been domesticated by humans to taste better/sweeter than their wild cousins that our ancestors would have gathered. And domesticated grain like wheat would also be out. But things like insects would be in. Saying dairy is not "normal" because it is not part of the hunter/gatherer diet ignores all the generations of humans that have been healthy including it in their diets, and assumes that humans are incapable of evolving to adapt to their local foods.

But I do think that you should look to your ancestry as to what foods resonate best with your body. For me, being of Asian descent, dairy is not really a "normal" part of Asian culture, so I'm probably better off with seafood and rice genetically.

Sorry if this is a bit disjointed, DD keeps bugging me to play with her.









Gale Force, nice pics of the house! I am shuddering at the thought of trying to heat it in the winter though. :LOL


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## Brisen (Apr 5, 2004)

I agree with toraji. Actually, the argument that the milk of other animals wasn't *designed* for us to eat amuses and confuses me -- it seems to suggest that the other things we eat were *designed* with our consumption in mind. I suppose some plants grow fruit that it "wants" animals to eat to spread the seeds, but does lettuce grow leaves so we can eat it? I thought they were to gather energy so it could make seeds and propogate. I suppose if you are a creationist (which I am), then this pov makes sense -- but if you are a creationist, why wouldn't it make sense that the creator also made animals that were easy to domesticate and milk for nourishment? Obviously I think that human milk is best for human babies, but I don't think that there is anything wrong with drinking cow/goat/sheep/yak/etc. milk, any more than I think eating the flesh of those animals, or plants, is wrong. Actually, considering that milk was designed for mamillian (sp?) consumption, and many plants have defenses to discourage animal consumption, if anything I would say that milks are closer to being designed for human consumption than plants. JMO.

Cultured dairy -- I returned Dr. Price's book to my friend, can anyone remind me about the people in the Swiss Alps, what they ate? I thought they drank sweet milk in addition to cheese and cultured milk products. I consume most of my milk uncultured. Like pps mentioned (toraji and mountain mom, I think), I have looked to my heritage to help me decide how to eat, and it's northern European so milk is big. My dh is the same, so the kids are the same, too. I never really liked drinking milk plain -- only with chocolate syrup added, or with cookies, or a cold cut sandwich. But now that I've switched to raw, I love it. Honestly, I don't want to switch to having it all cultured, since I'm finally enjoying milk. I like yogurt -- as a snack to eat with a spoon. Is kefir more of a drink? Maybe I'll head over to the probiotics thread to get inspired.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

I definitely agree on toraji's analysis of what's natural. The extension of the "dairy is not natural" argument is that grains are not natural. Of course, there are people who think they shouldn't be eaten either and I do find I do better without them. THough they are SO HARD to give up.

annasmom -- We haven't noticed any changes like that except in reaction to kefir. How is she doing today?

toraji -- we don't try to heat it all and we wear wool sweaters.







My office used to be the cold room for the kitchen. brrrrr


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## cathe (Nov 17, 2002)

I just finished an amazing book called "Our Stolen Future" which talks about endrocrine disrupters like PCBs, dioxins. They recommend limiting animal fats because that is where these toxins are stored.


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## Mountain Chick (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:

But I am having a hard time figuring out how it is natural for humans to eat/drink the milk of another animal. I can't think of other examples in the animal kingdom of this occurring.
I have heard that if an animal loses it's mother on a farm, they can nurse the animal with goats milk. I have a friend who did this with a foal (baby horse), and kittens.

And once a long time ago I read a story in the newspaper of a mother Cat nursing some puppies who lost there mother. The mother Cat did this on her own, not being incouraged by humans in any way.

So I think it does happen, just not as commonly as humans do it.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cathe*
I just finished an amazing book called "Our Stolen Future" which talks about endrocrine disrupters like PCBs, dioxins. They recommend limiting animal fats because that is where these toxins are stored.

Ugh. That is one issue that NT does not address.
Where are they coming from... water, air?
Would organic, pasture fed make a difference or not?








I'm going to not rant about the current changes to our enviroment and the state of the courts right now...


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## cathe (Nov 17, 2002)

Both air and water. Water is contaminated from pesticide runoff, waste spills, detergents, etc. Air carries it too. When ingested, the toxins are stored in fatty tissue like breast tissue, etc. And in females, they come out in the breastmilk (which includes cow milk of course). I would think that organic would have lower risk because at least their feed does not contain pesticides.

Also, the higher up on the food chain you eat, the more you are getting - and it's not just in industrialized areas. Polar bears up past the Artic Circule in Norway started dying off and they found incredibly high levels of PCB's in them even though the area was "remote and pristine". But they ate lots of seals, who had eaten lots of fish, who had eaten lots of smaller fish, who had eaten bugs, who had eated the contaimated seaweed and it multiplied up.

Their finding problems in all kinds of remote places like the rain forest and high on mountains. Also, what is really sad that a lot of primitive tribes of people who are living off fish are having some of the worst problems.

This whole thing just makes me sick how we have contaminated the whole world - and really not much is being done about it.
(Please excuse my off topic rant.)

Oh - and one more awful thing the book talks about. That much of the time, the effects of the dioxins, PCB's and other endrocrine disrupters doesn't show up on the person ingesting them - but on their offspring. THey also say that it's not just want you eat while you are pg or bf but also before since all the stuff is stored in your fatty tissues.


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## earthchick (Sep 30, 2004)

Thanks for all the input about dairy, mamas!







Very helpful. And you gave me a different perspective on what "natural" means. Toraji, thanks for the link and the info you provided - it was great. I had done a google search on "dairy history" but hadn't found much.

My ancestry is entirely Scotch-Irish-English with the tiniest smidgeon of Cherokee Indian. So I guess that means dairy would be a reasonable choice for me? (Am still somewhat new to the whole idea of ancestry influencing what a natural diet is for a person).

Thanks for giving so much thought to my questions and for sharing your thoughts with me!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Ugh, thanks Cathe. I think.

All this information is enough to make me seriously food phobic. Especially since this is in an NT thread... I used to be vegetarian/low-fat, relying on only vegetable oils and I really believe that is not a healthy way to eat for me. The research just makes sense, as well as how I feel. It's such a conundrum.

On a related note, check out Sally Fallon, et al food diaries at WAPF. Now that is a lot of fat:
http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...oarddiets.html


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

I don't know, I don't really see it all as a dilemma. We know we're supposed to eat organic to reduce the toxins and we do as much as we can. And we know that if our bodies are functioning properly that it will be able to flush out a lot of toxins. We need fat to function.

When I was on a very clean WAP like diet, my uranium levels decreased by 40% (haven't had the test in a while so I don't know how I've progressed since). At that time, my uranium exposure continued. Uranium is supposed to be one of the most difficult substances to get rid of, there aren't even any chelation techniques. It gets lodged in the bones and doesn't want to move.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

From a herbalist point of view as well, its vital to keep the liver functioning at a top notch level. The liver is the filter and if its clogged then that influences how your metabolize the fats and digest them. As well it very much influences hormonal levels in the body and the health of the blood. Unhealthy blood, unhealthy body. Support those livers!!


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Jane,

I just checked out that website and my reaction was "how can these women eat so little?" Even the diets of some of the men at 4000+ calories a day seem pretty meager.

No wonder I can't fit into my shorts.

And actually, I really try not to eat grains, so it's odd for me to see such grain-filled diets.

Here's one (Cowan):
****
DAY 2 - 4633 calories: 15% protein, 26% carbohydrate, 59% fat

Breakfast: 1 cup soaked, cooked rolled oats with 2 tablespoons raw honey, 1/2 cup pecans, 1 tablespoon ground flax seed and 1/2 cup plain whole milk yogurt.

Lunch: 2 slices homemade sourdough bread with 5 ounces raw cream cheese and 1/2 cup lacto-fermented carrots.

Dinner: 3 cups cream of vegetable soup with 1 pound sausage, 2 slices homemade sourdough bread with 2 tablespoons butter, 1 cup sauerkraut.

******

The breakfast and lunch wouldn't get me by. But the soup with the 1 pound of sausage, well that's another story.

But is that pork sausage I wonder? Tasty, but probably not the healthiest meat choice.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

Speaking of sausage we found this amazing bison sausage that using saskatoon berries as the binder and has no nitrates. Its delish!


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## cathe (Nov 17, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Ugh, thanks Cathe. I think.

All this information is enough to make me seriously food phobic.

I know what you mean.


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## xenabyte (Jul 16, 2004)

Hey, I've been outdoors enjoying the







, planting lots of







and so I'm mostly







: about the site....but wanted to say hello and howdy!

I'm also starting a 'sprout farm' and wheatgrass array! I agree about how sad it is how polluted our land, water and air is! I am trying to grow sprouts as a way to help combat the pollution of our foods.

I did a *liver cleanse* and OMG, I got out these green 'rocks' from the size of lentils (mostly) up to a few the size of a thumbnail....so I know it's a good thing to take care of your liver!









I also bought an expensive 'colon cleanser' mix, then figured out a cheaper way to make it myself. It's good, and I feel better drinking it if I've had animal products (makes any potential toxins move out of your system faster):

*Colon Cleanser Drink*

2 cups organic bottled or fresh pressed apple juice
1 banana (Fresh or frozen at the peak of ripeness)
2 TBS golden flax seeds
1 TBS chia seeds (or psyllium)

Blend (I use my vitamix) and drink pretty quickly. This 'bulks up' and sweeps your entire digestive track out. It tastes really good, like a milkshake. You could add a half packet of Stevia if you like it sweeter...but it's great as it, especially if you use ripe bananas.

I know you discussed *chlorella* a bit back, but I'm enjoying the 'Sun Chlorella' brand, even the granulated stuff that you mix into a drink or 'chew' on. It has a slightly sweet taste and goes good with any juice. I sprinkle it on almond butter and spread it on celery sticks. Even the Dh will eat it this way.

OH, and I do have *TONS of milk Kefir grains* available....and the water grains are reproducing well too. So I can start shipping those as well now.









I'm making up a batch of *rejuvelac* and it's pretty tasty! Oh, and I finally made *'sprouted wheat' tortillas* and OMG they turned out good. They take a bit of finagling..but definitely doable and tasty! They stayed soft and moist until the next day, when the left overs were eaten up!

I just got a large 'plant' shipment in, so I need to hit the dirt, but I will post the sprouted wheat tort recipe when I have a bit more time, if any are interested.


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## missi66 (Mar 25, 2005)

What is in your rejuvelac?I made some about a year ago that was sprouted rye.We could not drink it.Any tips?On the sprout garden...are you doing the micro greens or just normal sprouts? I am interested in the micro greens like sproutpeople.com talk about but am just not sure. Organic greens are almost to pricey to buy here.


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## xenabyte (Jul 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *missi66*
What is in your rejuvelac?I made some about a year ago that was sprouted rye.We could not drink it.Any tips?

On the sprout garden...are you doing the micro greens or just normal sprouts? I am interested in the micro greens like sproutpeople.com talk about but am just not sure. Organic greens are almost to pricey to buy here.

Hey missi66,

I sprouted wheat berries for two days. Then I put them in a large glass jar with enough water to cover double the height of the sprouts. Then you let them soak for 24-48 hours. (Make sure to cover the opening with cheesecloth). I also added just a TINY TINY pinch of sea salt, and a 1/8th? tsp of lemon juice (guessing, I squeezed it out of a lemon I was using to make lemonade).

Today is almost up for the first 48 hour 'brew' of the rejuvelac. It is like mild 'wheat flavored' water with a bit of a 'tangy' note and a little 'lemony'.

I think I will be tossing in 'one single grain' of 'water kefir' just to see if it gets more 'fizzy' and fermented on the next two 'batches'. Then the wheat berries are considered 'spent' and you should toss them to the birdies...

You can probably add in a bit of lemon juice and maybe a packet of stevia to make it more like a light lemonade. I'm drinking a glass of it now 'straight up'. It's not bad, but to make it appeal to a 'wider audience', it probably needs to be mixed with some other flavors (tea, juice, etc.)

I'm setting up a system to do the 'micro greens'. I want to start with sunflower and buckwheat 'lettuce' for salads. Wheatgrass for juicing and Garbanzos and lentils and wheat berries, black beans and mung and broccoli sprouts for salads, essene breads, cookies and torts. I've been juicing alot and they blend in so easy! I'm thinking about getting an 'easy green sprouter'. It's pretty automated. You just rotate the trays and harvest when ready. Here is a link: http://www.wheatgrasskits.com/easygreensprouter.htm

Other than that, I'm just rearranging the kitchen and converting an old cubby to hold trays for the 'micro greens' and jars of 'little sprouts'. I'm also putting in a 'patio' lettuce garden that I can harvest for a 'big greens' salad occasionally.

We're eating a salad a day, and WOW organic can get expensive. I think if I can find a nice 'home blend' I like as much, then it'll be worth the time and effort to set it up. There is a nice 'automated' system for sale at www.wheatgrasskits.com but it's kinda pricy. So I'm going to start with garden trays and composting first.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
Jane,

I just checked out that website and my reaction was "how can these women eat so little?" Even the diets of some of the men at 4000+ calories a day seem pretty meager.

No wonder I can't fit into my shorts....

The breakfast and lunch wouldn't get me by. But the soup with the 1 pound of sausage, well that's another story.

But is that pork sausage I wonder? Tasty, but probably not the healthiest meat choice.









you Amazon woman you!! I guess I'm used to starving from the Elim Diet, those menus seem very heavy to me.

Also, it really made me giggle at how addicted to chocolate Mary Enig is :LOL

I know pork is not rec on NT...why is that exactly? Pork sausage still grosses me out for some reason, but I love the apple chicken or rosemary chicken sausage at Whole Foods.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mountain mom*
From a herbalist point of view as well, its vital to keep the liver functioning at a top notch level. The liver is the filter and if its clogged then that influences how your metabolize the fats and digest them. As well it very much influences hormonal levels in the body and the health of the blood. Unhealthy blood, unhealthy body. Support those livers!!

Here, here! Also I've read that simple vitamin C at 500mg/day can greatly increase glutathione levels.

Xenabyte re: those green rocks... that's truly bizarre!
I'm scared of doing a cleanse after reading about how all this unbelievable stuff gets purged.


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## nini2033a (Apr 11, 2005)

xenabyte....and the water grains are reproducing well too. So I can start shipping those as well now. [/QUOTE said:


> Just a quick question,,, I have never before had problems with yeast infections, but since I started water kefir, I seem to constantly be battling yeast rashes, (not internally- but on the skin). Do you have problems with the water kefir and yeast? How much do you drink daily/weekly?
> How much sugar is really needed to feed it, can we adjust down the suf=gar without hurting the grains? I am almost ready to give it up because of the rashes, and the only thing that seems to help it is applying coconut oil to the rash. The RX that the Dr. gave me didn't touch it.
> Thanks,
> Karen


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## Pilgrim (Dec 12, 2004)

Hey I have a completely new question for y'all....

I'd like to do some soaked pumpkin and sunflower seeds, then crisp them and put them into a trail mix.

I add organic chocolate chips to my trail mix, and I don't like the salty flavor of the seeds mixed with the sweet flavor of the chocolate. So my question is: Is the salt for flavor only, or is it necessary in phytase reduction and releasing the enzymes during the soaking? Can I use just water to do the soak? Oh, and I can't do whey or anything with milk proteins.

Thanks!


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## cathe (Nov 17, 2002)

I love rejuvelac - I make mine a little different - with ginger. Here's my recipe:

Rejuvelac
This has a strong, lemony taste that is similar to lemonade. The ginger is good for digestion and gives it a little extra zing. If the taste is too strong, use rejuvelac to replace part of the liquid in a smoothie or try Watermelon Blast-Off (page xxx).

1/2 cup soft wheat berries
1 (2-inch) piece fresh ginger root, sliced (optional)
7 cups water

Sprout wheat for 3 days as follows: Soak berries in 2 cups water for 12 hours. Drain. Place berries in quart-size jar. Cover jar with cheesecloth and secure with rubber band. Rinse soaked seeds by filling the jar with water and inverting it to drain through cheesecloth. Position the jar at approximately a 45-degree angle, mouth side down, to allow excess moisture to drain. Place jar out of direct sunlight. Rinse sprouts at least twice daily to provide them with water and wash away by-products of growth.
After 3 days, or when sprouts are about as long as the seeds, remove sprouts and place them in a blender along with the ginger and 3 cups of water. Blend for about 10 seconds, just enough to open the sprouts up a bit. Pour the mixture into a half-gallon jar. Fill the jar with the remaining water. Cover the jar with cheesecloth or a dish towel and let it sit for 3 days in a shady spot. Stir the mixture twice daily to keep the enzymes and live organisms mixed. Smell the rejuvelac each day to monitor its progress. It should have a fresh smell like lemons or sauerkraut. If it smells bad, discard it and start again.
After 3 days, or when it tastes and smells strongly like lemons or sauerkraut, stir the mixture one final time and pour through a strainer. Keep rejuvelac refrigerated in a covered jar but be sure to open the jar every few days to release gasses that will build up. It will last for at least one month.
Sip rejuvelac slowly. If you are not used to eating fermented foods, start with 1/4 to 1/2 cup per day. After a couple of weeks, gradually increase to one cup a day.

Makes 2 quarts

Note: The strained pulp can be used to start another batch. Place pulp in clean half-gallon jar and fill with water. Stir and cover with cheesecloth and ferment as previous batch. It will mature faster - probably in two days. Discard pulp after second batch.


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## member (Apr 15, 2002)

Jane, wrt pork, I know a few nutritionists (Hass and Gittleman specifically) do not do pork because of toxins. Pork only have sweat glands in their feet and therefore their flesh holds on to more toxins (I think that's right). However, I do have the newest Enig/Fallon book and nitrite-free bacon is included in all of the meal plans.


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pilgrim*
Hey I have a completely new question for y'all....

So my question is: Is the salt for flavor only, or is it necessary in phytase reduction and releasing the enzymes during the soaking? Can I use just water to do the soak?
Thanks!

I just pulled my first batch of almonds out of the oven after soaking them in salt. Yes, the salt is necessary for the phytase reduction. Mine don't taste very salty tho.


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## Brisen (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **solsticemama**
I just pulled my first batch of almonds out of the oven after soaking them in salt. Yes, the salt is necessary for the phytase reduction. Mine don't taste very salty tho.

Kind of thinking out loud here....

The salt is to reduce phytates when you soak the almonds. Then you dry them in the oven/dehydrator to crisp them. I wonder if you soaked the nuts in fresh water once the phytase stuff has taken place, to draw out the salt, you could then crisp them?


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## member (Apr 15, 2002)

This looks soooo good.







Lacto-fermented salsa


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

Oh great recipe Selu. Do you think you could sub whey for the kimchi juice?

If I could then I can make this tomorrow!! I am so excited. Thank you for sharing.


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## member (Apr 15, 2002)

MM, I am thinking you could, I actually plan to use whey as well, because I don't have any kimchi juice.


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## Pilgrim (Dec 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brisen*
Kind of thinking out loud here....

The salt is to reduce phytates when you soak the almonds. Then you dry them in the oven/dehydrator to crisp them. I wonder if you soaked the nuts in fresh water once the phytase stuff has taken place, to draw out the salt, you could then crisp them?









- Why didn't I think of that? How simple!! :LOL







:


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Selu Gigage*
This looks soooo good.







Lacto-fermented salsa

Those pictures look so idyllic. I have made a bunch of fermented veggies lately... and used whey from both yogurt and kefir. One batch of cucumbers came out nasty, don't know why, but everything just far has been great. DS loves fermented cucumbers so much it's not even funny.

I would not pack the salsa so full as shown, leave an inch or two at least at the top.

I've also made the fermented ketchup from the NT book, it was waaaaay too fishy. I'm going to try to make again with only a tablespoon or less of fish sauce the next time.


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## nini2033a (Apr 11, 2005)

question::: Do any of you use coconut flour? Do you have any recipes to share? I have just gotten some and since I dont do cookies, I am looking for other uses.
Thanks,
Karen


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## xenabyte (Jul 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nini2033a*
Just a quick question,,, I have never before had problems with yeast infections, but since I started water kefir, I seem to constantly be battling yeast rashes, (not internally- but on the skin). Do you have problems with the water kefir and yeast? How much do you drink daily/weekly?
How much sugar is really needed to feed it, can we adjust down the suf=gar without hurting the grains? I am almost ready to give it up because of the rashes, and the only thing that seems to help it is applying coconut oil to the rash. The RX that the Dr. gave me didn't touch it.
Thanks,
Karen

Hey, I've been drinking water kefir for months and months now. I drink a 'beer bottle' or less daily, most days. I've never had a 'yeast rash' from it, however it can make you 'detox'. You might be having 'detox' rashing or internal yeasts trying to 'clear out' as the probiotics in the water kefir 'battle it out' with candida yeasts...

I would cut back and see if it helps, but I would keep drinking it in the long run. Take some of that coconut oil internally too, it'll help kill off yeasts internally too.

The most 'basic' recipe for water Kefir calls for like 6 TBS sugar. Most of that sugar is 'eaten' and converted so you are left with only a very slightly sweet product. If you are not ingesting sugars or refined carbohydrates in the rest of your diet, then maybe it is the sugar giving the yeasts in your body a chance to grow, but I'm thinking if that small amount of water kefir would do this, you should probably look into doing a candida cleanse.









Hope this helps a bit


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## gardenmommy (Nov 23, 2001)

I am going out of town for a couple of weeks. How do I store my kefir grains while I am gone so that they don't die? Can I just put them in the fridge, or do I need to do something else with them? Thanks!

On another note, I made a really good salad the other day with some steak. It was delicious! My ds and dd cleaned everything off their plates, and wanted more! I was very proud of my efforts, esp. considering it was an experiemental dish, iykwim.

I've been making butter with the cream I skim from the top of my raw milk. It's very tasty. DD, however, is less than impressed. She tried a small amount, and said, "I need a drink after that nasty butter!".

Ok, I know this probably totally defeats the purpose of taking coconut oil, but... I made totally awesome brownies with it the other day...so good, they are all gone!

Yes, I have fallen off the wagon. Ok, well the wagon is a long ways ahead of me right now. Maybe if I run fast enough I can catch it. I did enjoy the brownies, though!!


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## Goddess3_2005 (Oct 20, 2004)

At the risk of sounding like a total bimbo, can someone explain Nt to me?


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## member (Apr 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Goddess3_2005*
At the risk of sounding like a total bimbo, can someone explain Nt to me?









There's a pretty good overview here.


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

I'm wanting to make some of the almond cookies and they call for arrowroot flour but I'm having a really hard time finding any. Anybody got ideas as to where I could find it or whether I could substitute something like potato flour or tapioca flour?

Yesterday I made both the basic biscuits and the persian black beans. Both were very good and, not counting the long fermentation process, pretty easy to make.


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## mamamillie (Jul 22, 2003)

Hi. I wanted to sign on the thread.
I finally got a copy of NT yesterday. I had no idea it was so HUGE; I have only barely skimmed it thus far. I do have a chicken stock going right now and have been making yogurt for a long time...waiting for kefir grains to get here. I must say I was SHOCKED when I read that the best fat to use for occasional frying is lard! I almost fell out of my chair- I had no idea! :LOL
I knew NT was all about animal products and we are not technically vegetarian, but meat is a seriously rare, once in a while treat. We do fish (wild salmon) at least weekly and I am going to try to get a chicken or two a month. But I have not been able to find organic or grass fed beef so I don't imagine we will "go there."
Are you guys able to find raw milk? I can't even get nonhomo organic locally (I could go to Wal-Mart for Horizon but I won't do that) and am driving 45 minutes to the next city to get Organic Valley milk and cultured butter (As well as organic produce, etc...it seriously sucks that I have to take a whole day, spend $10 on gas, and load up three coolers to get food for my family)! I am considering running a classified ad in the local paper looking for raw milk but wonder how you all were able to locate your sources. We do not really drink dairy (occasionally I do) but I use it for yogurt and soon, kefir. We mostly drink rice and almond milk, because my ds seems to have a behavioral allergy to drinking cow's milk
Anyway, I look forward to delving deeper into this book and keeping up w the thread.









BTW, I don't know yet if juicing is discussed in NT, but I got an awsome deal on a juicer yesterday and am super excited to be juicing. SO far we have had carrot and parsley juice, and cherry-papaya (it was a strawberry papaya)-apple nectar.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Hi Millie








http://www.realmilk.com/
Check here for raw milk sources... also the WAPF chapter leader in your area might have more ideas. Mine turned me onto a drive share co-op that was not even listed on the Real Milk site. Also a CSA, Community Supported Agricultre organic farm too. Hope you can find some near you!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **solsticemama**
I'm wanting to make some of the almond cookies and they call for arrowroot flour but I'm having a really hard time finding any.

I found some in the spice jars section of all places... tiny 2 oz jar (what's that, a 1/4 cup?) I dont know how much the recipe calls for.


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## cathe (Nov 17, 2002)

I get arrowroot powder in the bulk bins at my health foods store. And those cookies are yummy!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Goddess3_2005*
At the risk of sounding like a total bimbo, can someone explain Nt to me?









Sally Fallon wrote the Nourishing Traditions book based on the nutritional research of Weston Price... Mercola's site has a good description of Price's findings here:
http://www.mercola.com/2001/jan/21/weston_price.htm

Then when you are ready, start looking around the Weston Price Foundation's website, there is so much information there:
www.westonaprice.org


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I've also made the fermented ketchup from the NT book, it was waaaaay too fishy. I'm going to try to make again with only a tablespoon or less of fish sauce the next time.

I make the ketchup regularly, as my dh is a ketchup addict. Mine doesn't come out too fishy, but I also ferment it a couple days longer than her recipe says to (otherwise it's not tangy enough). It could be the brand of fish sauce you're using, too.


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

as far as cow's milk being natural for humans to drink, I'm not really certain of the answer, but the fact that it's so integral to the creation story in the Eddas always comes to my mind.
http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/creation.html (see Audhumla)
So, being a person of almost half Norse descent, it stands to reason to me that my ancestors were extremely reliant on cows, and the place of Audhumla in the story says to me that cows milk played a central role in daily nutrition and even the creation of their society.


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## toraji (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **solsticemama**
I'm wanting to make some of the almond cookies and they call for arrowroot flour but I'm having a really hard time finding any. Anybody got ideas as to where I could find it or whether I could substitute something like potato flour or tapioca flour?

Either one should substitute just fine. They all do pretty much the same thing.


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## toraji (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gardenmommy*
I am going out of town for a couple of weeks. How do I store my kefir grains while I am gone so that they don't die? Can I just put them in the fridge, or do I need to do something else with them? Thanks!

I used to store mine in the fridge. Probably fresh milk would give you the longest amount of time before it ran out of food, though xenabyte would probably know more about this than me!


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

I looked in the bulk bins at 2 different HFSs but found no arrowroot. I'll try the spice section tho. I hadn't thought of that. Glad to hear the cookies are good. Sometimes the recipes are so so and after all the time involved fermenting stuff you want it to taste worth the effort YK. The persian beans, for example, are







but the biscuits need tweaking. They were very, ahem, wholesome tasting









On another note the last two batches of raw milk we've bought have been off. Hmm, I might have to call the company and see what's up. It's about 3 or 4 times the price of pasteurized milk so this is getting expensive. We only use it in our tea and coffee so I'm thinking maybe it's just not worth the price or effort and we'll switch back to pasteurized.


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## member (Apr 15, 2002)

Wrt arrowroot, I find it in the bulk herbs section (Frontier brand) at my co-op and Wild Oats.

About milk, I cannot find raw milk here and mail ordering it is too spendy, so I took a page from the new Fallon/Enig book and use coconut milk. I use it in my coffee and some other places that would call for milk. I still use cultured butter and raw cheese though.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

Off topic... HerthElde..Welcome back!


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

Thanks, mountain mom, nice to hear I've been missed








Life has been busy, but I have been staying with my parents for a week, so have a few more pairs of eyes watching out for the little one.


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## spyiispy (Jul 23, 2002)

I am subbing!! Those lacto-fermented salsa pix *were* gorgeous; cept I am thinking I will leave OUT the cat hair from mine









Including a link to pix from my "Bread Baker's Apprentice" experiments these past couple weeks. This book is soo awesome and I've converted the recipes to use sourdough starter with no problems.

Bagels & pain l'ancienne......

http://share.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?...zcMmn7&notag=1


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Yum that bread looks delicious!

I did find the arrowroot in the bulk herbs and spices section, thanks mamas. And I've emailed the raw milk company to see what they have to say.


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## member (Apr 15, 2002)

Lisa, the bread and bagels are beautiful! I wish I was there to eat with you.


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## mamamillie (Jul 22, 2003)

Hi mamas.
I read all the way through nt this weekend (not all the sidebars, yet). My chix stock turned out beautiful and fully gelled







. I put up a bunch in the freezer, some in the fridge and made the chicken and rice soup last night w green beans that I had frozen and carrots. (It wasn't that great, to be honest but I think I just am not nuts about chicken and rice. I am going to try the coconut chix broth soup next, sounds interesting).
We made (me and ds) sauerkraut w a beautiful red cabbage he picked out at the hfs, and cherry chutney-







can't wait to try it, and the carrots. I am going to market tommorrow and plan to make pickled beets for dh as he said he liked them this way when I cooked beets last. He had never heard of chutney before, it is totally new for him. I think he is in for a new favorite; I cannot get him to eat well, but I can totally see him munching out w a jar of fermented salsa, and hopefully many different interesting things. I am real excited about lacto fermented stuff; this (and sprouting grains) was the info that drew me towards this book. I cannot believe I have been throwing out whey from making cheese the whole time waiting to be able to get this book so I could learn to ferment!







I wondered how it was done!
It is too meat-based for me, though, and a lot of the recipes we will never try-Raw meat uke ....Although, if I find grain fed and organic, I think I might do the corned beef. I know that my dh LOVES reubens.
Can anyone give me an idea on the price of benito? What about rapadura? Is this known by another name, btw?


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## arcenciel (Nov 26, 2001)

Hi. I subscribed a few months ago, but there's too much going on here for me to keep up as well as attempting to actually do some of the NT stuff!

Anyway, I finally got round to doing some ginger carrots last week and tasted them for the first time today. It was SOOO salty that I couldn't eat it. Have I done something wrong? I'm fairly sure I added the quantity it said in the recipe.Has it not fermented properly? Can I add less salt and still have it ferment (I used whey so I only added 2 tbsp salt, not 3 without whey).

They whey must be about 5 months old, is it possible it's not good any longer? - it says it'll keep for 6 months in the book, but I haven't used it recently for anything else so I'm not sure....

thanks for any ideas.


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## mamamillie (Jul 22, 2003)

Here's more questions for you mamas.

Are you guys soaking your rice? I saw a recipe for soaked and not soaked and couldn't tell where she said you should...does it really not matter?

Okay, I skimmed the fat from my stock and plopped it in a container and put it in the fridge. I have some green tomatoes we want to fry today...should I/ can I fry them in that?

Has anyone made "fly" (the sweet potato "soda")? Did your dc like it?

What are your fave recipes in the book?


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

On rice: it's better for digestibility to soak it but apparently the unsoaked method is more palatable.

Ok, mamas has anyone made the banana bread? After culturing my flours for about 15 hrs I made it this morning. And it did not work. It took 3 hrs of cooking and then I finally gave up as the outside was getting burnt. The inside was still soggy and undercooked. The outsides came away easily from the insides so I popped them back in the oven for another hour!!! Anyone have any ideas?


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **solsticemama**
Ok, mamas has anyone made the banana bread? After culturing my flours for about 15 hrs I made it this morning. And it did not work. It took 3 hrs of cooking and then I finally gave up as the outside was getting burnt. The inside was still soggy and undercooked. The outsides came away easily from the insides so I popped them back in the oven for another hour!!! Anyone have any ideas?

For the most part, my banana bread and muffins turn out great, but I have had each fail.
What I've learned and what I do:
I always use kefir, however once I used kefir that had been made in the fridge and was a very thin consistency. Because of this, the dough was too wet, and the bread did not cook through.
Always put the pan as close to the bottom of the oven as possible - I think she says this in the intro to the chapter, but not in the recipe itself.
Freeze bananas first.
Leave in the pan until the bread (or muffins) has cooled to about lukewarm - it continues to cook the insides after you've taken it out of the oven.
You may have more success with a longer bake time at a lower temp, although I have found that doing it as I stated above I use her temps and times without a problem.
HTH!


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## spyiispy (Jul 23, 2002)

arcencial........YES, there is a misprint in the amount of salt. It should read 2 TEASPOONS, not 2 tablespoons. I think there is one other misprint in the book too.....anybody remember it?

Thanks for the bread compliments, guys







I really enjoy working with dough.....there's something remarkably peaceful about it. Both the bagels and pain l'ancienne were made with sourdough starter....NO YEAST....and a long (overnight), cool fermentation. The results were amazing......the pain l'ancienne tasted buttery without a smidgen of butter on it. So here it is, 11:26 PM Wednesday night and I am sitting here....waiting for a couple loaves of cinnamon-raisin-walnut bread to rise so I can bake them in the middle of the night. That's the downside to sourdough.....it has its own schedule.....and could care less about yours :LOL

mamamillie....SAVE that whey!!!! It keeps forever in the fridge and you invariably find uses for it. Rapadura is unrefined and unbleached whole cane sugar. Its got a yummy caramelly taste and well...here....

http://www.rapunzel.com/products/rap..._rapadura.html

Lisa


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## arcenciel (Nov 26, 2001)

Thank you so much, Lisa. No wonder the carrots are inedible. Back to square 1 I guess...


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Thanks HerthElde. I am feeling grumpy this morning, having just looked at the remains (3/4 of the loaf) of what was supposed to be banana bread and realizing I'm going to have to chuck it. I don't really want to it's full of great things--among them raw butter, freshly ground spelt and kamut, kefir, truly free range eggs from a small local farm etc. The last two recipes I've made have been dodgy but I'll keep your suggestions in mind HE and try again.


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **solsticemama**
Thanks HerthElde. I am feeling grumpy this morning, having just looked at the remains (3/4 of the loaf) of what was supposed to be banana bread and realizing I'm going to have to chuck it. I don't really want to it's full of great things--among them raw butter, freshly ground spelt and kamut, kefir, truly free range eggs from a small local farm etc. The last two recipes I've made have been dodgy but I'll keep your suggestions in mind HE and try again.

I don't know if it's too late . . . but you could always drench it in some kind of syrupy concoction (maybe use maple syrup, honey or sucanat, water and arrowroot to thicken) add some fruit and call it a bread-pudding-like or fruit-cobbler-like dessert . . .


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## toraji (Apr 3, 2003)

OMG, those breads are gorgeous...my good RL friend has that book and she loves it!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spyiispyIncluding a link to pix from my "Bread Baker's Apprentice" experiments these past couple weeks. This book is soo awesome and I've converted the recipes to use sourdough starter with no problems.

Bagels & pain l'ancienne......

[url*
http://share.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=EeEMWLNizcMmn7&notag=1[/url]


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## mamalex (Mar 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *arcenciel*
No wonder the carrots are inedible. Back to square 1 I guess...









I HAD to go check dh's carrots after reading this and yikes!! are they salty!!
I hate to waste it...what do ya'll think we could do with them. i was thinking about using them to inoculate a batch of other fermented veggies- like cabbage. give me your ideas.

also, anyone ever fermened greens? i've just got sooo many.

lastly, i made kefir finally and it worked! so did my yogurt, but dh didn't leave me enough to do it again. can you make yogurt from kefir starter?

so many questions...


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## MaryCeleste (Jun 11, 2004)

The arrowroot sold in health-food stores tends to be pricey. If you're using it to bake with, you might want to order it from a gluten-free food company, like Miss Roben's ($2.79 / lb), or Authentic Foods ($11 / 3 lb.). Even with shipping, it usually works out to be a better deal. (Come to think of it, if your HFS carries other items from those companies, they might be willing to special-order the arrowroot for you.)

BTW, has anyone tried substituting arrowroot for bulgur flour in the NT recipes that _don't_ list it as an alternative (such as the carob chip cookies)?


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## MaryCeleste (Jun 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamalex*
also, anyone ever fermened greens? i've just got sooo many.

Not sure about greens, but "Keeping Food Fresh" has a recipe for lactofermented chard stems. The authors claim that they're a wonderful delicacy.

Personally, I thought they were kind of nasty, but maybe I didn't give them a fair chance!


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## spyiispy (Jul 23, 2002)

toraji! I loved your bread blog entry! A baby's bottom.....maybe THAT'S why its sooo addictive. I also read the article on Safeway sucking your soul....BRILLIANT.

You all MUST read this:

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...505.DTL&nl=fix

It'll make you feel a little nauseous at first......maybe a little dizzy....but it is sooooo true. Its why I almost have to steel myself to walk through the door at Wal-Mart. Its why I feel exhausted, spent after being in there for a couple minutes. (Usually, I'm getting quilt batting at the fabric section). I just have two words for Mr. Mark Mortford......"RAW MILK!!"

Thanks toraji


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## member (Apr 15, 2002)

Hee! I love that Safeway article, and we don't even have a Safeway here. I just sub any Kroger, Giant Eagle or Meijer.

NYT ran a good piece on pastured beef yesterday. Free log-in is required. Give 'em a chance, Steers will eat grass.

Are we gettin' a June thread? I'm too much of a timid NT newbie to start it.


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## mamamillie (Jul 22, 2003)

I made some of those ginger carrots, too...before I had read the headsup on the misprint.
I just pulled them out immediately after I read it and cooked them w potatoes to soak up the salt and made a soup w chix stock. It definitely wasn't that great, but we ate it. I am gonna do the coconut chix soup tonite; that looks interesting.

If anyone knows what the other misprint is, please do post it! Thanks.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

I know that the index is mixed up and I can never find the split pea soup recipe. I have flipped through the flippen book so many times and never have I found it.

Selu....Start the thread, go for it! Post a link here okay?


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## nini2033a (Apr 11, 2005)

We made the ginger carrots as one of the first NT things. Someone said it was one of the easiest ways to convert to NT. I already knew about the misprint, and adjusted. I guess we aren't used to such sour/pickled taste. While I liked it in small amounts, my family did not. So in desperation, I added mayonnaise and raisins and it ended up like that carrot salad you can get at the deli. Pretty good and everyone ate it that way.









By the way, if anyone responded, I missed it,... I recently got some coconut flour from wildernessfamily naturals and want to use it since it is so healthy and high fiber etc. It came with several recipes for cookies and sweets, but we don't eat alot of those things and I am interested in making bread with it. Has anyone tried Coconut flour and what have you made? How would you suggest I use it?







:
Karen


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## nini2033a (Apr 11, 2005)

Split pea soup recipe is on page 215 at the bottom as a variation of the Roman Lentil Soup.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

Thanks Karen!


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## member (Apr 15, 2002)

New June thread is here!


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