# Saying "Bye bye" to try to get toddler to follow you



## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

My 15-month-old son and I took the dog out to go potty the other day. Until recently, I had been taking him in the stroller or just carrying him while we did this, but now that he's getting so sure-footed I decided to let him walk. He had a great time exploring all the sticks, leaves, bugs, etc on the ground on the way, and we took our time getting to the dog's potty spot.

After she went, I let him explore a little more, but it was starting to get cold out and I hadn't brought our sweaters, so it was time to go back inside. I told him this and he laughed and walked the other way, and without thinking I said, "Okay, bye-bye" and started slowly walking in the direction I wanted to go.

The second the words were out of my mouth, it felt wrong -- I think I was just repeating what I've seen so many other mothers do and didn't really think about it. But I turned around and he was just standing there giving me the most forlorn look, and I just felt awful and went and scooped him up for a hug right away.

It's so strange how your opinion of things that you saw other people do with their kids before you were a mother and didn't think were wrong, totally changes once you have a kid! I can't believe it's "normal" to make our kids think we're going to just walk away from them -- to let them think we would just leave them and try to scare them into sticking close to us. And it's also strange how even those of us who are thoughtful about the discipline tactics we use with our children can slip into mimicking observed behaviors without really thinking about it.

Anyway, just thought I'd share my "Ah-ha" moment about that!


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## tracilicious (Oct 5, 2004)

EEk! I know exactly what you mean. The same thing has happened to us. My first thought was, "Wow! That worked!" My second thought was, "Wait, I don't want him to be afraid of me leaving him!" Live and learn.


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## Attila the Honey (Mar 15, 2003)

That's something I've slipped and done too, and it shocked me the moment it was out of my mouth! Yikes.

I struggle alot with this, I know it's wrong but I have trouble remember how to get dd to come with me when we have to leave. I've only done it a couple of times and immediately stopped when I realized I said it, but it does slip out.









Usually I will say, "We have to go now, come with me..." and walk away. I don't actually say or imply I am leaving her behind, but I walk and expect her to follow. Not sure that's the right thing to do, either!


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## TeaBag (Dec 18, 2003)

I don't say "Bye" to my children, but when it's time to leave somewhere I give them plenty of warning and then I say "Okay, it's time to go." and start heading towards the car/sidewalk/etc. I *expect* them to follow me, adn most of the time, they do. Sometimes, dd2 -2yr old- will not and I will go back to her and reinforce that it's time to leave, that I understand she's having fun, we'll come back another day, etc....but to give them the impression that I'm leaving them somewhere is just cruel, imo. And, if you do a search, you'll find whole, long, involved threads on this subject, and have a whole lot more input on this.

I do think it's great that you're looking at this critically and examining your own behavior before it becomes the norm.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

I agree with APMom. I think its one thing to walk away, with the expectation that they will follow you. That is something that is in TCC. The Yequana parent's just walk, and expect that the kids will follow, and the kids follow. It's just something that happens. kwim?
But saying "Ok, then. I'm going now. Bye." with the intention that dc will follow because he doesn't want to be left alone, is mean (not saying that the op was being mean, of course. lol. Or that parents who do this are mean, per se. Just that it seems like an awfully confusing way to control kids.)
I have a friend who does this. It also doesn't seem like its doing much in the way of guiding and teaching.


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## Evergreen (Nov 6, 2002)

I am in the same boat. I remember once when my child was about 15 mos, I did it. It just came out, probably because I'd see my friends, parents at the park, heck even my own parents do it.

THen I realized how wrong it felt. NOw I do the give warning and the "I'm leaving, I expect you to be with me" thing. I just slowly walk away after letting her know it is time to go. She catches up with me in her own time and knows I would never leave her.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

I wouldn't say "bye bye" to mean "I will leave without you. come with me or you will be all alone." because that is mean and really disresepectful IMO. I would say "It's time for us to leave" or something though. Ds used to love to say "good bye" to all sorts of things when we needed to go. He'd say good bye to the trees at the park, the toys at the store etc.


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## ktcl (Jul 12, 2003)

I actually remembering realizing for the first time that that tactic was never going to work with DS, and I was proud of that. In other words, when I considered it at around age 2, I realized that with all of our attachment-creation in the first two years, he felt secure that I wouldn't ever just leave him. So I could say that I was going, but he would not believe that I would abandon him. Of course, I never really tried to go any further with that one either. Didn't really feel like "testing" the attachment theory. But I liked the idea that he didn't have that as a fear!


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## Diane~Alena (Aug 23, 2004)

I know what you mean I am often at a loss as to what to do with my strong willed little two year old. She will not go anywhere she doesn't want to go and no amount of warnings or positive spins help us. I have walked forward and said "bye bye then, I guess you will have to catch up when you are ready"I stay in sight and never let her feel abandoned I just remove her audience she sees her fit isn't working and often gets up and joins us. I have had some fits go on and we just stay close and ignore the negative behavior. I wish i could scoop her up and hug her she will bite and arch so I can't hold her. She was a preemie and she is a challage to positive disipline. i actualy had one women tell me to just beat her today







.


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## Attached Mamma (Mar 16, 2004)

My ds and I were at the park with a friend and her ds and she overheard a lady say to her child "o.k. I'm going to leave, bye, bye", and an older child around age 8 witnessed this and said to her "you can't leave him here alone, he isn't old enough", and then the lady looked rather embarassed and said "oh, I wasn't going to really leave him, I'm just trying to get him to come". I thought that was a good wake up call, even at that age the older child thought she was serious and going to leave, imagine the fear that a young child has when his mother says that.

I have heard that it is not healthy at all for a child when parents to this sort of thing, it triggers a fear response in the child and is very damaging to them emotionally.


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## spsmom (Jun 19, 2004)

oh my! i just happened upon this thread. and so thankful that i did! i am that mom who has let it become to norm. lately i have just felt like i am at the end of my rope with ds#1. the first time i did it, it worked so quickly, i didn't think twice about it. but, (smacking myself across the head now) duh. how cruel. i am having a self awareness moment here! i don't have to say "bye" i know my son. if i just let him know it is time to go, and start to head for the door, he will say, wait for me. how horribly cruel of me the make him think i would leave him behind. thank you!


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## AntoninBeGonin (Jun 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Attila the Honey*

Usually I will say, "We have to go now, come with me..." and walk away. I don't actually say or imply I am leaving her behind, but I walk and expect her to follow. Not sure that's the right thing to do, either!

That's what I do, too. I'll let him know it's time to leave, and I'll walk a few feet away, and wait expectantly. I have never liked when parents imply they'll leave without their child. (Not that you were doing that.)

~Nay


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## rootzdawta (May 22, 2005)

I never thought about it but I guess from a young child's perspective saying "bye-bye" when you want them to follow maybe would make them panic the first time or if you really walked away and left which I don't think anybody does. Maybe. However, I've seen it done with my toddler nephew and not only does it not work, it makes him laugh. His mother says, "Bye-bye baby" and walks a few steps away, stops and says, "C'mon" and keeps on doing it. Usually she just ends up picking him up so they can get going. It does works with my cousin but only after a few tries and maybe an explanation as to where they're going or a bribe. I think they know their mom is not really going anywhere without them because they've never been left. I mean, children think simply so the word "bye" simply means "it's time to leave." Someone said that in another culture, the parent just gets up and leaves and the child follows. I would guess they learned to do that after the parent got up to leave and started walking a few times. Prefacing that walking away with a "bye," a clue as to the fact that you're leaving doesn't seem so terribly horrible that it would mar a child because you aren't really leaving.

So what are some ways beside saying "bye" to get a toddler to come along if saying bye is not GD enough?


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## the_queen (Nov 3, 2005)

When my daughter was 2 yrs old, I tried this on her. I said "come on, we have to go" etc etc about 5 times. Then I said "OK then, seeya later" and started to walk off. She waved to me and said "bye!!"


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## riversong (Aug 11, 2005)

I remember reading somewhere that saying "Bye, I guess I'm going to have to leave you" or some variant on that, just takes advantage of children's fear of abandonment. I have also heard people use that kind of talk many times and I've caught myself doing it and had to stop and pick something kind to say.

I will also never forget the news story of a little girl who was hiking with her grandparents. They said "bye" and actually walked out of sight of her to try and get her to come. They lost her in the woods and I can't remember if she was ever found. I think she was found, but how horrifying. Anyone else remember this story?


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## angela&avery (May 30, 2002)

i dont like or do this either, but my mom does.....







:


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## aira (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:

I don't say "Bye" to my children, but when it's time to leave somewhere I give them plenty of warning and then I say "Okay, it's time to go." and start heading towards the car/sidewalk/etc. I *expect* them to follow me, adn most of the time, they do.
This is what I do.

Quote:

So what are some ways beside saying "bye" to get a toddler to come along if saying bye is not GD enough?
The idea is that saying bye is threatening abandonment, and showing a clear expectation that you think the DC will stay, instead of come along. It's nothing but manipualtion by use of a child's deepest fear of losing connection to caregiver. Expressing nothing other that an expectation that DC will follow will give them the clues they need to choose what's best for themselves.

OP, not meaning this personally... I know how things slip out when we don't expect it! I'm so glad your intuition was spot on about this!


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## captain crunchy (Mar 29, 2005)

I think it is the child's perspective that matters in relation to this thread. We can argue semantics (threats to leave versus expectation that they follow) but if your child thinks you are leaving them, what your intention was becomes moot. Yo may be thinking "oh I am just slowly walking away expecting them to follow, I won't leave them"... but if your child thinks you may leave them or follows because they are scared you will leave... it is kind of the same as if you said "I am leaving without you if you don't come" because the child *feels* the same inside.

I think preparation is important. Talking about the time you intend to leave, preparing them to leave, talking about the next activity that will take place when you leave this activity can help make the transition smoother. Giving the child ample time to finish what they are playing with/working on etc while gently reminding them that you need to be going soon because you are cooking ___ for dinner and that takes ___ time to make and you want to eat as a family when your partner comes home etc... helps give children a reasoning behind *why* you want to leave at whatever time. Playfullness can be fun too... a race to the car, seeing if they can get to the car before you count to 30 (in a fun way, not in a count to a number or punish way)...walking backwards to the car...saying goodbye to all the play equipment, whatever...

Good luck!


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## oliversmum2000 (Oct 10, 2003)

i kind of do this but not in a threatening way if that makes sense

i will explain to ds 2 that we have to go and why , then eventually i will say ok honey i have to go now because of x,y,z.. then very slowly walk away obviously closely watching him, he gest a cheeky grin and tiptoes up behind me and sometimes will do a moster growl and make me 'jump' which he loves or he will just jopin me to which i respon with huge amounts of nethisiasm, commenting that i am so glad that he decided to join me as i have would have been so lonely without him!

so far this seesm to work, if he ever felt i was leaving or abandoning him i wouldnt ever do it again, it just seems to motivate him to move in a playful way.


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## AntoninBeGonin (Jun 24, 2005)

On a related note, I once watched a mother walk away from her toddler in a crowded store in an attempt to have the child follow her. There was no way the kid could keep up with her mom. She just started following another pair of legs with pants similar to what her mom was wearing. I'd kept an eye on the mom, so I got behind the toddler and steered her towards the parent. I don't think the mom even noticed she was missing.









~Nay


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## writermommy (Jan 29, 2005)

This is one thing that has always annoyed me. I think its because I worked in preschool before I had kids and saw parents do this all the time. It really does make a lot of kids feel they will be abandoned. Often we would get kids that had so much fun in my class that they didn't want to go home at the end of the day. Moms would say things like "Bye bye, I'm leaving now" and even once in a while, "See you tomorrow" or the more horrid, "You can go live with Miss Pattie then!"







: (The bitch in me wanted to say, "Y'Know what? he can!!" ) I know that NO mommies here would ever say anything like that, just an example of what I've heard other parents say out of frustration! I've seen kids get very upset and run crying after mom.







For this reason, I've never done this to my girls.

DH has done it a few times, but he gets in trouble for it.







I would never want them to think I would actually leave them anywhere, ever. From a young child's perspective, this is how they sometimes see it. Once I explained this to him, he stopped doing it. I do start walking slowly and wait for them to follow. They eventually do, most of the time.


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## CryPixie83 (Jan 27, 2004)

We have done the "okay bye bye" thing, but it's always in a silly tone and dd knows we're joking because she just laughs. It doesn't actually work for us though, she knows we won't leave her







It does really bug me when parents do this and they know their kids believe them. I've seen a lot of parents get really mean with it and it makes me mad and sad.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

I find saying bye bye to everyone and everything helps my dd leave things..."bye swings, see ya soon, bye sandbox, thanks for the fun" etc. etc. got them going.

Also lots of warning and also lots of talking about it before. I have always talked about "when it's time to leave this is what will happen" when we go anywhere...so they know and remember...makes the transition go much more smoothly.


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## Mary-Beth (Nov 20, 2001)

I try to help with the transition by asking her to finish up her game/activity now becuase it's almost time to go then I give them the "2 more minutes." This works well most times...I stick to it and they usually don't resist. I have said, "bye...I'm going now" not walking away but getting my coat on or whatever and it hasn't been threatning at all. I don't consider it a threat of leaving my child behind...I wouldn't say, "I'm leaving without you" or imply that with my gestures. What I mean to say, "Bye friends we're leaving now." But saying bye as a prompt for my child to come along is one of those things I have said from time to time. I don't think its the best method but I don't feel guilt about the way I've done it either. More often I'd be likely to say, "Bye swings! Bye slide! See you next time!" or whatever.

I have seen mothers threaten to leave without their child or walk away until the child either comes running or cries...That just seems ineffective and sends a message counter to the one I'm wanting my child to get from me...safe, secure, unconditional, etc.


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## johub (Feb 19, 2005)

I do not say bye bye to my children but I do turn and walk away with the full expectation that they will follow me. And they do. It isnt an abandonment issue. It is a cue that we are leaving. Not that "I" am leaving because it is understood that we are a unit.
A funny story though, one time we were walking towards our car in a school parking lot and my 2 year old dd diverted off into the bike racks. We paused, turned and told her "the car's this way. Let's go" and then turned back around to continue walking trusting that she would catch up. She showed no signs of being afraid, but her older brother who was 3 was very upset by this and would not go another step without his sister and insisted DH go in after her. He takes such good care of his brother and sister.(and isnt mature enough to trust that they are just as interested in staying with us as he is) And usually we do pause casually to let the child catch up (but try not to make it too obvious because we dont want to start the "chasing game").


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## CryPixie83 (Jan 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Diane~Alena*
. I have had some fits go on and we just stay close and ignore the negative behavior. I wish i could scoop her up and hug her she will bite and arch so I can't hold her. She was a preemie and she is a challage to positive disipline. *i actualy had one women tell me to just beat her today*







.









what did you say to her??


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## IncaMama (Jun 23, 2004)

i've found that rowan transitions easier if we focus on what we're going TOWARD rather than what we're leaving. like if he doesn't want to leave the park, instead of just saying bye to that stuff we talk about how when we get home we'll have a snack, or play with blocks, or whatever...he still freaks out half the time LOL but it helps sometimes.


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## *LoveBugMama* (Aug 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *captain crunchy*
I think it is the child's perspective that matters in relation to this thread. We can argue semantics (threats to leave versus expectation that they follow) but if your child thinks you are leaving them, what your intention was becomes moot. Yo may be thinking "oh I am just slowly walking away expecting them to follow, I won't leave them"... but if your child thinks you may leave them or follows because they are scared you will leave... it is kind of the same as if you said "I am leaving without you if you don't come" because the child *feels* the same inside.


I agree completely!









My son would be really scared and run after me in fear if I started walking away and just expect him to follow.


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## Diane~Alena (Aug 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CryPixie83*







what did you say to her??

I actualy walked beside the women for a block and we talked about how I don't want to dominate my children but teach them how to reason. This women has a child in my daughter Elizabeths class so I kind of know her. Then we went on about how preemies(her twin brothers were born at 30 weeks) have a higher pain threshold and spanking doesn't work the same as with babies who haven't had hundrends of needle pokes. I was left speachless at the end, she still stood by the idea that Ellanor should be beaten untill she does as she is told. I personaly don't want my child to do what she is told when she is told it, I like her to be a free spirit with her own ideas. My children are strong and that makes me proud the probelm is it also leaves me tired







.


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## Diane~Alena (Aug 23, 2004)

Darn did it agian, sorry I don't know why it keeps posting twice I feel so silly


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