# At this rate, she'll be in a 5-point carseat until she's 7!



## ecoteat (Mar 3, 2006)

I was just looking at Maine's carseat laws and at girls' growth charts, and am a little perplexed. Kids have to be in a car seat until 40 pounds. They have to be in a booster until 80 pounds. If dd happened to stay at the 5th-10th percentile for weight, as she has all along, she won't be 40 pounds until she is almost 7! And she wouldn't be 80 pounds until she is 13. (Not that I'm expecting her to stay so petite--her dad's tiny Portuguese genes can't completely win over my giant Polish ones, can they?)

How would that work? A kid at the 25th percentile for height (she's hovered around 10th-25th there would be about 45 inches at that age. Can a 45 inch kid even fit in a car seat?

Right now she's 3.5 years old, 28.5 pounds, and 37 inches tall. She rides in a Fisher-Price Safe Voyage (is that what they are called? I can't remember. The one that is basically a Marathon) in one car and a Scenera in the other. The shoulder straps are at the highest spot on both of them. Is she really going to have to ride in a full carseat until 2nd grade? Or is there some intermediate step? I know she's fine in her seats for a while still, but I'm just wondering about this.


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## UberMama (Feb 27, 2007)

Most likely she'd outgrow most 5 pts (except the Regent) due to her torso height and her shoulders being above the top slots.

My 5.5 year old DD is 40 lbs right now, but she has just outgrown her True Fit (which I believe has 17" top slots? but has a 65 lb weight limit and she's no where near that, of course). She has a long torso though!

That said, most kids by 6/7 years of age are ready maturity wise for a booster. And there's no evidence that a 5 pt is any safer than a booster provided that both are used correctly. Granted, if the child fits the 5 pt, my thinking is - why not keep them in that until they've outgrown it?


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## lunita1 (May 12, 2008)

It does seem that if she's indeed that light she should legally be in a car seat that long in Maine. I'm not sure they mean a five point harness, or if they include boosters in their definition of child safety seats?

My 7 year old is 51 lbs. (and around the 50th percentile in height... I don't remember exactly) and fits the harness in her Nautilus still. The slots are about two inches higher than the slots in the True Fit, I think? (I think they're 1/2 inch lower than the regents' top slots)


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## urchin_grey (Sep 26, 2006)

Yep, it sounds like you'll need a combo or FF'ing seat before she moves to a booster. Something like the Graco Nautilus would be a good choice. The top harness slots are a lot higher than the convertible seats you have now, so she should be able to stay harnessed in that seat (or something similar) until she's ready for a booster.


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

I just checked out the actual text of the Maine child restraint laws and fortunately, that's not what it says.

It requires a child under 40 pounds to be secured in a 'child safety seat'. A few sentences above that, it defines "child safety seat" as

Quote:

A. "Child safety seat" means a child safety seat that meets the standards described in the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards.
So if your six year old weighs, say, 35 pounds, and you put her in an FMVSS belt positioning booster that is approved for children weighing 30 pounds or more, you are in compliance with the law.

Most states that 'appear' to have a restraint law requiring kids under 40 pounds to be in harnesses actually don't, if you read the exact wording of the law.


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## StrawberryFields (Apr 6, 2005)

I wonder this too about my kids! I asked a police officer at a car seat safety booth once and he said that they had to be 40 lbs before they could be moved to a booster. 4 year old ds just hit 30 lbs and 2 year old dd is not quite 20 lbs, so like you, it is going to be awhile for us.


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StrawberryFields* 
I wonder this too about my kids! I asked a police officer at a car seat safety booth once and he said that they had to be 40 lbs before they could be moved to a booster. 4 year old ds just hit 30 lbs and 2 year old dd is not quite 20 lbs, so like you, it is going to be awhile for us.

What state are you in?


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## StrawberryFields (Apr 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maedze* 
What state are you in?









Wisconsin


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

I should clarify that when we say, 'harness to 40 lbs' it's for several reasons:

1.) The 'average' (I know, who has this mythical average child?!?!) hits 40 pounds between 4 and 5, which is basically when you even have a chance in heck of a very small portion of the kid population being mature enough for a booster only

2.) Until very recently, seats did not harness beyond 40 pounds. Most seats would not get a kid beyond three or four by height, anyway. So we were begging parents to PLEASE use the seat until the child outgrew it rather than switching to a booster at 2 years.

3.) A study a few years back showed that putting a kid UNDER 40 pounds in a booster led to a significant increase in risk of head and neck injury, submarining and potential ejection.

That being said, maturity is a HUGE part of booster-readiness, both physical and emotional. The hips of a 35 pound seven year old are much more developed than the hips of a 35 pound three year old, and will do a much better job of keeping the lap belt down in an accident.

A 30 pound six year old in a booster? Pretty safe. A 30 pound 3 year old? Not safe at all.


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StrawberryFields* 
Wisconsin

I just read the whole text of the Wisconsin law. It's, uh, extremely wordy









It does have some problems in that it makes it sound like it's illegal to rear face a child over 1 (although that's not the case, it's just phrased badly).

But it has similar language to the Maine law, where it uses a vague 'child safety restraint system' which is defined as any FMVSS child seat used according to manufacturer use.

So it would not be illegal to put a 30 pound 3 year old in a booster (although it would be unfailingly stupid). It would also not be illegal to put a 30 pound 6 year old in a booster (although that would likely be quite safe )


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## hottmama (Dec 27, 2004)

My son is in the 75th %iles and was in a 5-pt. harness until 6.5.


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## KayleeZoo (Apr 8, 2003)

I agree, the way that the laws are written could not possibly be more confusing in some states. It's obnoxious, really.

Just to throw this out there- my 2nd DD will be 7 next month and is still harnessed in her Radian XT. At 35.5lbs, she honestly doesn't fit well in many boosters, and I'm not impressed with the one she does fit well in (Graco TurboBooster). I imagine she'll be harnessed for at least another year. My oldest was harnessed till almost 9, though


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## onlyboys (Feb 12, 2004)

My sons are still harnessed at almost 8, 6, and 4. My 13 year old is not harnessed or boostered, but was harnessed until 7 and then in a booster until 11 or so.


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## finnegansmom (Jul 15, 2007)

Isn't it safer to keep a child 5 pt harnessed as long as possible?
We just bought a Britax Regent for DS1 (3 yo, 38#) because we can stay harnessed until 80#. We have the Decathlon in the other car, which only goes to 65# but the regent is more roomy for an older child I think.


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## elmh23 (Jul 1, 2004)

My 5-year-old is 45 inches and fits great in a Regent (her main seat), a Nautilus (our back up seat) and a Frontier (her friends seat.) The only reason we bought the Regent is because, at 2, dd was outgrowin every convertable on the market and that was the only choice. If the Nautilus had been available then, we wouldn't have the Regent (though I do love the Regent!)

Finnegansmom, more than likely, your child will NOT make it to 80lbs in a Regent. Most kids outgrow seats by height not weight and most kids also slow down on their weight gain around 4ish. Dd has been 40lbs since she was 3.5.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

oops, double post


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *finnegansmom* 
Isn't it safer to keep a child 5 pt harnessed as long as possible?

There is no evidence that for a child who is able to use a booster properly, harnessing is safer than boostering. It is certainly not LESS safe, but we cannot say that it is safeR, either. With the caveat that all kids and all seats and all cars are different, and this is a VERY general guideline and not a hard-and-fast rule, I'm generally okay with a choice to booster for preference or convenience sometime around age six.


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *finnegansmom* 
Isn't it safer to keep a child 5 pt harnessed as long as possible?
We just bought a Britax Regent for DS1 (3 yo, 38#) because we can stay harnessed until 80#. We have the Decathlon in the other car, which only goes to 65# but the regent is more roomy for an older child I think.

No, it is not. It is not 'unsafe', but it is not safer than a booster provided that the following three stipulations are met

1. The child is at least 4 years old
2. The child is at least 40 pounds (Some wiggle room for older slender kids)
3. The child has the maturity to sit correctly in the booster 100% of the time (usually occurs between the 5th and 6th birthdays)

Incidentally, most children won't get to 65 pounds in the Decathalon or 80 pounds in the Regent. The seat will be outgrown by height, first. Most kids will outgrow the Decathalon by height and weight at about 44", 40-50 pounds, and the Regent is generally outgrown by around 4 feet/50-60 pounds.


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## chel (Jul 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maedze* 
Incidentally, most children won't get to 65 pounds in the Decathalon or 80 pounds in the Regent. The seat will be outgrown by height, first. Most kids will outgrow the Decathalon by height and weight at about 44", 40-50 pounds, and the Regent is generally outgrown by around 4 feet/50-60 pounds.

good point! i think many people miss the concept of the high weight seats helping those dc in the 95+% of weight stay in a suitable seat, rather then being made to keep skinny 12yr olds in a harness seat


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## RiverSky (Jun 26, 2005)

My almost-11 year old son is still using his Britax Parkway booster (rated to 100 lbs and 5") and doesn't mind at all. He's very close to fitting in the middle row of our Honda Odyssey without it, according to this sheet. The nice thing is that it has side impact protection wings built into the top of it, and you can't imagine how many times those have come in handy when the children fall asleep on long trips, they far prefer having them to not having them.


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## ecoteat (Mar 3, 2006)

I guess I've just never seen a kid older than, oh, maybe 4 in a harnessed seat. But then again, I never noticed toddlers rear-facing as long as dd and most of her friends were until I had a kid that age. I noticed her shoulders are REALLY close to the Scenera's top slots today. Are that seat's slots particularly low? She has a long way to go to get close to the weight limit! Where should her shoulders be in relation to the top slots before we upgrade her seat?

Maedze, thanks for your take on the wording of the Maine law. It is a bit confusing. DD is certainly nowhere near ready to use a booster correctly. But the thought of having to buy two seats with higher slots sometime in the not-too-distant future isn't so great, either. Maybe we could manage with just one? Maybe I'm fretting over this a bit prematurely, anyway.


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## 3plus2isme (Nov 8, 2009)

DS will be 6 in a few months and still happily harnessed


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## boheime (Oct 25, 2005)

My oldest is 7 and still happily harnessed.


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Wow you people have tiny little kids! My youngest is 3 yrs 10 mths old and has been in a high backed booster seat for about 4 months. We had her in a harness that said it went to 47 lbs but she outgrew it at 45 lbs. Yes my almost 4 year old is 45 lbs and also very tall so too big for a harnessed seat. My older two are 55 lbs (7 years old) and in a backless booser and 62 lbs (almost 9 years old) and in a backless booster.


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## KMK_Mama (Jan 29, 2006)

My 7 1/2 yo (42 lbs) and my 6 1/2 yo (38 lbs) are both happily harnessed in Sunshine Radians. They aren't even in the top slot yet. My 3yo is in a Sunshine Radian too.


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## Collinsky (Jul 7, 2004)

My Dd is 3 weeks shy of her 7th birthday, and at 39.5 lbs is still comfortably in a 5 pt harness carseat. Her 5 1/2 yo sister is as well - but since she is also 39.5 lbs, I figure she'll be in a booster before she is 6. One or both will be in booster seats this spring, at this rate.

It's been a total nonissue for us - for one thing, at 5+ they are capable of fastening their own buckles securely (I double-check to be sure, but it sure does save time for them to be able to do that while I get their little brothers in!) and it is just much easier than when they were 3. I do remember, when they were much smaller, being appalled at the idea of them being in carseats for years and years and years... but it turned out not to be a problem for us at all.


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
Wow you people have tiny little kids! My youngest is 3 yrs 10 mths old and has been in a high backed booster seat for about 4 months. We had her in a harness that said it went to 47 lbs but she outgrew it at 45 lbs. Yes my almost 4 year old is 45 lbs and also very tall so too big for a harnessed seat. My older two are 55 lbs (7 years old) and in a backless booser and 62 lbs (almost 9 years old) and in a backless booster.

I strongly, strongly, strongly encourage you to put your 3 year old back in a harnessed seat. No child her age is mature enough to sit correctly in a booster, let alone a 3.5 year old. In an accident, the consequences could truly be deadly. PLEASE look at your options and find a more suitable seat for your child


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ecoteat* 
I guess I've just never seen a kid older than, oh, maybe 4 in a harnessed seat. But then again, I never noticed toddlers rear-facing as long as dd and most of her friends were until I had a kid that age. I noticed her shoulders are REALLY close to the Scenera's top slots today. *Are that seat's slots particularly low?* She has a long way to go to get close to the weight limit! Where should her shoulders be in relation to the top slots before we upgrade her seat?

Maedze, thanks for your take on the wording of the Maine law. It is a bit confusing. DD is certainly nowhere near ready to use a booster correctly. *But the thought of having to buy two seats with higher slots sometime in the not-too-distant future isn't so great, either. Maybe we could manage with just one? Maybe I'm fretting over this a bit prematurely, anyway.*


The top slots of an older style Scenera ARE quite low, and most kids, except the round ones







will not make it to 40 pounds in one.

WRT to your seating situation: if your daughter were a bit heavier, I'd start booster training her at 4. But she's quite petite...I would plan on trying to keep her in a harness at least for another 18 months. When you do start booster training, look for a seat that fits littles well. The Graco Turbobooster (don't forget the screws in the armrests!!!) and the Recaro Vivo are both excellent options.


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## triscuitsmom (Jan 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
Wow you people have tiny little kids! My youngest is 3 yrs 10 mths old and has been in a high backed booster seat for about 4 months. We had her in a harness that said it went to 47 lbs but she outgrew it at 45 lbs. Yes my almost 4 year old is 45 lbs and also very tall so too big for a harnessed seat. My older two are 55 lbs (7 years old) and in a backless booser and 62 lbs (almost 9 years old) and in a backless booster.

If the seat she outgrew had a 47 pound harness weight there are bigger seats on the market that could hold her harnessed







40lbs AND 4 years old is the bare minimum for safety to begin booster training. Before 4 years old there isn't enough physical development (I'm not talking about maturity, I mean strictly body structure) to safely have the child out of a 5 point harness. Maturity also comes into play and most kids won't be mature enough to properly sit in a booster seat (never wiggle, never reach for a toy, not slump if they are sleeping etc) until sometime between 5 years and 6 years old.

My son is not small or short and only a couple of months younger then your daughter and he's still rearfacing in a 40lb rearfacing seat, and soon to be a 45lb one. I understand your daughter is over the weight limit for that, but really my point was that by height the seats we have will be outgrown rearfacing long before forward facing and he's not even done that yet.

From a safety perspective your daughter really should be in a five point harness still. It could be the difference between her staying restrained in a crash and not staying in the restraint during a crash... which is a pretty significant difference I think we can all agree.


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## 2xand2y (Sep 13, 2009)

I have a nine year old riding in a Regent. She will be there until she outgrows it by height. Since she has been in the 5th percentile or lower in height and weight since birth I don't expect her to out grow it by weight. I also have an almost 7 year old in a radian80 and I'm sure it will be a similiar situation.


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## devon (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
Wow you people have tiny little kids! My youngest is 3 yrs 10 mths old and has been in a high backed booster seat for about 4 months. We had her in a harness that said it went to 47 lbs but she outgrew it at 45 lbs. Yes my almost 4 year old is 45 lbs and also very tall so too big for a harnessed seat. My older two are 55 lbs (7 years old) and in a backless booser and 62 lbs (almost 9 years old) and in a backless booster.

My boys are big - bigger then yours for their ages. My oldest DS just turned 5 in October. He is 48'' and 52 lbs. He is happily harnessed, and will be for awhile, he still has a slot above the one he is in - in the Nautilus.

I plan on keeping him harnessed as long as possible - and would have no qualms if that was until he was 8 (but most likely it won't be given his size).


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

On the weight I know my DD also had a huge weight surge and growth spurt kinda late. At 3.5 shes was easily under 30lbs still and we had her in her radian 65 but by her Kindegarden year 5.5 years (late October birthday) she had suddenly popped up over the 50lb mark we then one day maybe just shy or right around her 6th birthday had an issue where the chest clip on her radian broke not sure how but she was also wanting to be more independent at that time so because she was mature enough tall enough and of a decent weight we made the tranastion to her booster which at 7 she is still in. I think shes around 60lbs now...

Deanna


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## jillmamma (Apr 11, 2005)

I have a little 4 year old too. At 4y3m, she is 29 lb and maybe 37.5 inches tall. She was just turned around FF in her Britax Decathlon so that I can more easily fit the newborn seat for her sister coming next month next to hers. Her Decathlon has at least 2 more years till it expires, so I plan to keep her harnessed in it till then (she has plenty of room on the second slot from the top yet, and no way will she gain 35 lb in 2 years!). At that point, she will be 6.5+, and still probably not yet 40 lb, but due to age, I would be comfortable getting another Graco Turbobooster (her older brother who is 7 is riding in one now) for her then. So I too will have a kid still harnessed till close to 7.


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## littlemizflava (Oct 8, 2006)

my dd is 7y 7m, 47lb, 46" tall and 15.5" torso hight. she **** fully fits in her radian carseat and will for a long time yet. i wont rush her to a booster because of her age. as long as a she is fitting in a 5 point seat she will be in one.


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## mom2reenie (Nov 14, 2006)

DD will be 8 in March and still harnessed in her safegaurd go seat. She's 42 pounds and 43 inches.


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## mommyto3girls (May 3, 2005)

Maia turned 7 in November. She is 48 inches tall and about 45 pounds and LOVES riding in her Graco nautilus w/5 pt harness. Many of her 8 year old friends ride in the 5 pt harness when with us. My car, My rules! I do keep a LBB for her taller friends though


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## water (May 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
Wow you people have tiny little kids! My youngest is 3 yrs 10 mths old and has been in a high backed booster seat for about 4 months. We had her in a harness that said it went to 47 lbs but she outgrew it at 45 lbs. Yes my almost 4 year old is 45 lbs and also very tall so too big for a harnessed seat. My older two are 55 lbs (7 years old) and in a backless booser and 62 lbs (almost 9 years old) and in a backless booster.

My tall big ds rode harnessed until he was 8 yo; 73 pounds and 55 inches tall. The only reason I moved him to a (high-backed) booster was that his little sister grew out of her 40 lb seat and so needed a bigger seat that she will be in until at least 8 yo. I can't imagine putting a 3 yo in a booster!


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## ecoteat (Mar 3, 2006)

After reading through this thread my title sounds pretty silly! I had no idea so many kids (on MDC, anyway) rode harnessed for so long. That's good to know, since that was what I figured we'd be doing here, too.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Just chiming in that I moved my daughter to a booster at about 7.25, because she'd been asking and she demonstrated good booster behavior.


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## crl (May 9, 2004)

Just adding to the chorus that DS is 6.5 and still harnessed. He's big for his age too--95 percentile in height and 75th in weight. But he still meets the criteria to stay in his Radian. I think he's only now anywhere near being able to sit properly in a booster. But since we have the Radian, no need to buy a booster just yet.

Catherine


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## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maedze* 
I strongly, strongly, strongly encourage you to put your 3 year old back in a harnessed seat. No child her age is mature enough to sit correctly in a booster, let alone a 3.5 year old. In an accident, the consequences could truly be deadly. PLEASE look at your options and find a more suitable seat for your child









Unfortunately, Heavenly is in Canada, and our options for HWH seats are severely limited, especially if you are on a budget. The Nautilus is over $200 most places. The Chase is the only lower price seat (harnesses to 47lbs), and is what I am assuming was outgrown.

Heavenly, while I agree with Maedze in theory, I understand in practice that it may not be possible, depending on your budget. Some other suggestions would be a Truefit (harnesses to 65lbs, you can get it for $150 at Zellers Baby Days) or the Apex, which TRU has, though I'm not sure on the price.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

I agree with both you and Maezde. A child under four is simply not safe in a booster, and it's important to get the word out that it's age as much as (in fact, more than) weight that determines booster readiness. However, it's also true that some families simply can't afford higher-weight harnessing seats for younger/larger children.


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## AFWife (Aug 30, 2008)

I'm not trying to be argumentative...I'm truly curious....

When do you stop worrying about height and weight and go by age? I went to college with a girl that wasn't even 5" tall and probably not quite 100lbs at 18!


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AFWife* 
I'm not trying to be argumentative...I'm truly curious....

When do you stop worrying about height and weight and go by age? I went to college with a girl that wasn't even 5" tall and probably not quite 100lbs at 18!

If we're talking about a harness, it has substantially more to do with age than with size. Age and maturity: most kids reach that level of maturity to be in a booster between 5 and 6.

If you're talking about a booster, it's PURELY seatbelt fit. Weight is completely irrelevant.

If a grown adult is so tiny that the lap belt doesn't fit her, she's better off using a backless booster.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AFWife* 
I'm not trying to be argumentative...I'm truly curious....

When do you stop worrying about height and weight and go by age? I went to college with a girl that wasn't even 5" tall and probably not quite 100lbs at 18!

My opinion (and in all cases assume that the child in question at least meets the minimums for the seat in question):

Forward-facing -- somewhere between 3 and 4. I would consider turning a 4yo FFing even if she fit RFing.

Harnessing -- somewhere between 5 and 6. I would consider putting a 6yo in a booster even if she still fit harnessed.

Backless booster -- somewhere between 8 and 9. I would consider moving a 9yo to a backless booster even if she still fit in a highbacked one.

Seatbelt only -- puberty. I would consider allowing a person past puberty to sit without a booster even if she did not pass the 5-step test (mature hips do a better job of positioning the lap belt).


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## Dov'sMom (Jan 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AFWife* 
I'm not trying to be argumentative...I'm truly curious....

When do you stop worrying about height and weight and go by age? I went to college with a girl that wasn't even 5" tall and probably not quite 100lbs at 18!

Did you ever drive with her?

I went to high school with a girl who maxed out at 4'10 and 85lbs. She needed a booster to drive so she could see the road properly...


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## AFWife (Aug 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dov'sMom* 
Did you ever drive with her?

I went to high school with a girl who maxed out at 4'10 and 85lbs. She needed a booster to drive so she could see the road properly...

Honestly, no. We weren't that close...she's just the first smaller person of that age I could think of..


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## triscuitsmom (Jan 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Twinklefae* 
Unfortunately, Heavenly is in Canada, and our options for HWH seats are severely limited, especially if you are on a budget. The Nautilus is over $200 most places. The Chase is the only lower price seat (harnesses to 47lbs), and is what I am assuming was outgrown.

Heavenly, while I agree with Maedze in theory, I understand in practice that it may not be possible, depending on your budget. Some other suggestions would be a Truefit (harnesses to 65lbs, you can get it for $150 at Zellers Baby Days) or the Apex, which TRU has, though I'm not sure on the price.

The Apex is on sale right now for $149.99 I believe. The only thing with that seat is that it needs a headrest behind it.


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## triscuitsmom (Jan 11, 2007)

I guess I don't get the budget thing when it comes to carseats... I very very very much get the need to not spend unnecessary money. But if my option is putting my oldest (who is also 3 years old) in a booster which isn't fitting him properly and is therefore going to be unable to protect him in a crash I would not go in the car. Period. I would beg, borrow, and scrimp to afford a seat that would fit him, or I would take the bus or walk or not go. Going and putting my son in life and death danger would not be an option. And yes, I have been extremely poor when it was just my son and I and I was a single parent not working... We didn't have a lot but we would never have gotten into a car with no carseat or a carseat that was not going to actually be able to protect him in a crash.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dov'sMom* 
Did you ever drive with her?

I went to high school with a girl who maxed out at 4'10 and 85lbs. She needed a booster to drive so she could see the road properly...

DH used a phone book & pillow when he learned how to drive







He grew a full foot his senior year of high school


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## pumpkinhead (Sep 15, 2003)

My ds is 7 and still in a 5 pt harness. I plan to convert his Nautilus to a BPB really soon. It's not really a big deal







.


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *triscuitsmom* 
The Apex is on sale right now for $149.99 I believe. The only thing with that seat is that it needs a headrest behind it.

Unless someone has $150 to give me it being on sale is of no use to me. My husband is out of work and we have no income whatsoever. $150 is two weeks worth of groceries for us. She is a very big, solid girl and I feel that she is safe in the seat she is in (yes, it's the Chase without the harness). She will be 4 in one month.


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
Unless someone has $150 to give me it being on sale is of no use to me. My husband is out of work and we have no income whatsoever. $150 is two weeks worth of groceries for us. She is a very big, solid girl and I feel that she is safe in the seat she is in (yes, it's the Chase without the harness). She will be 4 in one month.


Unfortunately, being big and solid has no bearing on whether or not a booster is appropriate for her. Adding insult to injury, the Chase makes a terrible booster, so despite perception, she's actually likely to be pretty UNsafe in the event of a crash.

I am by no means underestimating the difficulty being out of work can impose on a person, but I strongly urge you to make finding an appropriate seat for your child a priority, even if it's just a dedicated booster like the Graco Turbobooster. Still not particularly safe, but at least she'd have a better chance of surviving a serious accident without severe injuries.


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## mommyto3girls (May 3, 2005)

I also think about the budget thing with carseats and safety. We have 3 girls, all in Graco nautilus seats. the oldest was in a graco HBB and the littles were in harnessed seats that we could "afford" as i learned more, I became more passionate about their safety (and their friends when they ride with us) When i started reading about the major safety differences, we bit the bullet and bought 6 nautilus seats all at once ( I found them for $125 shipped online, but still, $750 all at once) we cut everywhere we could. groceries-no soda, no snacks, no prepackaged lunchbox food, lots a meals with dried beans, rice, canned & frozen veggies, etc) To me, it was the number one most important safety issue we faced, and they are in the car basically every day! I figured over just one year, it was a cost of $0.68 cents per girl (for 2 seats-2 cars) and if we were ever in a major accident and I knew that the 5 point harness was safest, but said $$ prohibited it, and they were seriously injured or killed, i could NEVER live with myself. My kids safety is worth WAY more than $0.68 a day no matter what cutbacks we needed to make. We dropped to basic cable (almost cancelled it, dropped our landline, did not eat out at all for 4-5 months, took advantage of any free activities for the kids- library, city programs, art museum, metroparks, etc) It was just too important not to.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

If the money's not there, it's not there, unfortunately. As Maedze wrote earlier, though, if the child could be in a good dedicated booster, it would be significantly safer (although harnessing would be safest).


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## SeekingSerenity (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AFWife* 
I'm not trying to be argumentative...I'm truly curious....

When do you stop worrying about height and weight and go by age? I went to college with a girl that wasn't even 5" tall and probably not quite 100lbs at 18!


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dov'sMom* 
Did you ever drive with her?

I went to high school with a girl who maxed out at 4'10 and 85lbs. She needed a booster to drive so she could see the road properly...

I am 4'10" and I weigh 97 pounds (I am 35 yrs old). I've needed pillows to sit on when I drive my entire life, except for when I had a car with a highly-adjustable electric driver's seat that boosted me and put me forward enough to forgo the pillows.

I use two pillows now in my full-sized pickup truck. I wish I could turn off the driver's side airbag because I sit about 12" from the steering wheel out of necessity, and that's truly scary.

I often joke about the current state laws that require a booster seat for any child under 4'9" or 80 pounds. If they change it to, let's say, 5' and 100 pounds, I will legally require a booster seat to drive. (I laugh about it, but deep down, I'm a bit worried that with the current increase in average size and weight for most children, they might do exactly that. Will I need some kind of exemption??)

As for my kids, they aren't as small as me (well, one of them is - she's 11) but because of my genetic influence, they _are_ smaller than average. My DS2 is going to be 7 in March and he's not 40 pounds yet; however, when I can afford it I will transition him to a booster since he's lanky and the 5-point harness is starting to not fit him as ideally as it should. As of now, he's 6 years, 9 months and still in the 5-point harness.

I wish I could consider the more expensive seats like everyone on these boards talks about. I have two Gracos and an Evenflo, though, because they're inexpensive. I don't know what models they are but they all cost under $100.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

SS, booster laws only apply to children.


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

Seeking, you would be a lot more comfortable (and a lot safer) in a backless belt positioning booster. The Harmony booster at Toys R Us is only 20 dollars and really fits adults GREAT...plenty of leg support, wider seating area for mature hips. I would look into it in your shoes.


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## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maedze* 
Seeking, you would be a lot more comfortable (and a lot safer) in a backless belt positioning booster. The Harmony booster at Toys R Us is only 20 dollars and really fits adults GREAT...plenty of leg support, wider seating area for mature hips. I would look into it in your shoes.

Are there any backless boosters for adults who are over 100 pounds? And are they OK to use in the driver's seat? I am 120# and of average height (much of it in my legs, admittedly) but I drive an older car (1995 Mercury Sable) that just has a bad seatbelt situation. In the front seats, the seatbelt goes across my neck. Not only is it dangerous in a collision but it is really uncomfortable. I have seen aftermarket seatbelt adjusters but I know those are bad news. I am currently using a pillow, which is still not solving the problem completely.

As an aside, my 6.5 yo is still in a 5 pt harness and will probably stay in it until she is 10 as it will most definitely fit and is used in a seat that only has a lap belt.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

There are some backless boosters rated to 120#, but honestly, I would not hesitate to use a backless over the weight limit if it was needed for a good fit. The Harmony Secure Comfort fits most small women.


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

Weight limits on backless boosters are sort of....eh. They're there because...no one's sure why







In a crash, the seatbelt and the seatbelt alone is supporting the weight of the passenger, not the booster.

All in all, it's YOUR decision, but I'm more worried about a good belt fit than I am about a very arbitrary weight limit on a backless booster.

I mentioned the Harmony booster because it fits adult butts so well







I believe it has a 110# weight limit. If I were in your shoes, I would be perfectly comfortable using it.


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