# Babywise - Do people really do this?



## New_Natural_Mom (Dec 21, 2007)

I just looked Babywise up b/c I heard some people talking about it. This is some crazy stuff. Don't feed an infant on demand. Make them nap on a predetermined schedule. Only intervene in public. Make the infant respect the parents marriage. If I didn't see the website I would think it was a joke or a prank or something. Tell me there aren't people who actually buy this stuff??


----------



## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Yup. I can't figure it out for the life of me.

An old acquaintance emailed me a couple months ago to catch up and told me about her infant daughter. She then told me that Babywise is her mommy bible and she recommends it to everyone.

I still haven't responded. Her daughter was about 6 months by then, so I doubt I could have changed her mind.


----------



## maliceinwonderland (Apr 17, 2005)

Unfortunately there are people who believe it's a fantastic system. I know of one who has a kid around ds's age. She was telling me how great it was to feel like you were in control and I had to ask her politely to stop, as I can't hear about babies being treated like that. No doubt she thinks I'm a softy with spoiled kids, but oh well. Some people would be open to information, others don't want to hear it. She was definitely the type who would think "my way" is crazy.


----------



## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Well, yeah there are.

I guess the goal should be to get people to see how this is crap before they have kids.


----------



## royaloakmi (Mar 2, 2005)

As unbelievable as it seems, yes, MANY people do it.

I had a friend who followed the book practically to the letter.


----------



## llamalluv (Aug 24, 2007)

Yup. I know several people. One of which also hands out the Pearls' garbage on marriage and child rearing.

One gem from the Pearls' book on child rearing was to teach an INFANT (who was barely crawling) to come when called by setting him down with a toy, allowing him to become engrossed in playing, calling him, and then beating him with a switch when he did not drop the toy and immediately scoot over.

Basically, punish a child for BEHAVING (playing quietly is behaving in my opinion).

What's sad is that the justification is "the baby won't remember it."* I called another woman on that, by asking her, "So, it's okay if the nurses strap your grandmother to her bed and ignore her when she calls for help, since she has dementia and won't remember it?" (Her grandmother is really far gone, and doesn't remember anything for more than a few minutes.)

I got a nasty look and "It's not the same thing." I still can't figure out WHY it's different....









*which puzzles me, because doesn't that defeat the purpose of sleep training?


----------



## onyxravnos (Dec 30, 2006)

it's sad isn't it?
I have found myself trying to educate when i can and if i can't i just have to distance myself from people who belive that is an okay way to parent.


----------



## AaronsMommy (Nov 18, 2007)

I had actually never heard of babywise until my amazing friend got pregnant (after a long road of infertility) and she decided she wanted to read about lots of divergent parenting styles for herself. So she read "The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding" at the same time she read Babywise. She said that Babywise made some sense BEFORE she had her baby. Once she had that amazing little boy in her arms, she knew she couldn't treat him that way and THANK GOODNESS. I don't know how I could spend time with her or discuss mothering with her if she followed that torture.

Not only do I find it frustrating that children are being treated this way, but I also find it really sad for Mom's who are somehow convinced to go against their maternal instincts


----------



## cotopaxi (Sep 17, 2007)

Someone in my birth club elsewhere liked it, but when I questioned her, she basically said that the main thing she took from it was the idea that babies have alert, playful periods and sleepy periods, and it helped her to notice when those were for her baby so she could plan her day better and make sure to make time to interact and play during the alert periods. Not having actually read the book myself (only having read the info on the anti-Ezzo site), I don't know what it actually says. But it seems at least some people read it and like it but don't come to the conclusion that you should smack your baby or leave them to cry. It made me want to read the book to find out whether the anti-Ezzo people are exagerating before I told more people to burn their copies, lol, but I couldn't bring myself to even check it out of the library because I was afraid it would just upset me.


----------



## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

Sadly, yes.


----------



## ProtoLawyer (Apr 16, 2007)

How on earth can you "make" a baby respect a marriage?

I've never read any Ezzo. I suppose I could see the attraction of putting your baby on a schedule...but I don't understand how you can "make" a baby respect...well, anything. That's a pretty big concept.


----------



## YesandNo (Mar 16, 2008)

There's a guy who works with DH who got puppies to "practice" for kids.... training them, putting them on a schedule, etc. They ended up having twins and they say that the puppy practice was critical to their success as parents. When I was pregnant they kept telling DH all their tactics as suggestions, which he related to me.

To me it a head-scratcher. Thing is, it's not like they didn't do the research. And it's not like they don't love their kids. They honestly believe that what they are doing is the best thing for their family. Their theory is that kids thrive on schedules and rules and discipline (which, yes, that is true for some kids, but not for infants!!) These are smart people doing what they think is best based on thoughtful choices. So I don't think they're right, but I'm not utterly appalled by them either.


----------



## Treasuremapper (Jul 4, 2004)

I saw a booth displaying the Pearls books at a homeschooling conference. They also advertise in "the Old Schoolhouse" a prominent homeschooling magazine that also gets big name advertisers like Borders and Sonlight. I can't believe that any reputable organization would have anything to do with the Pearls.


----------



## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

Yep. We have good friends who have a 12 week old baby. We had dinner with them the other night, and she was raving about how wonderful Babywise is and how she wished she had found that book with her first son.

In their defense, they don't do it perfectly. They didn't let her cry or fuss while we were there and held her the entire time. At one point she was super fussy and obviously hungry and they kept trying to soothe her other ways while saying "It's not time for her to eat, she shouldn't be hungry"







: But eventually she got fussy enough that they went ahead and fed her "early".

Even still, it was hard to watch. I can't imagine how awful it would be if they followed it exactly.


----------



## momeg (Dec 4, 2006)

Don't know if you saw my thread, but I have been getting an earful of Babywise recently.

I do actually know a woman who followed the Babywise method with her daughter. She was a friend of a friend who actually gave the book to my friend, raving about how wonderful it is. A month later her daughter ended up in the ICU for failure to thrive. The poor dear is still having problems years later.


----------



## SquishyKitty (Jun 10, 2005)

I have a friend who loosely followed Babywise with her second child, but all she took from it was that babies have cycles of awake, tired, and hungry. Her DH deployed shortly after the baby was born, so it really helped her transition by herself from one child to two. She is an amazing mother and her girls are well-loved.


----------



## angie7 (Apr 23, 2007)

I belong to a very "mainstream" site, and it seems many follow babywise. Quite sad


----------



## soso-lynn (Dec 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llamalluv* 

What's sad is that the justification is "the baby won't remember it."* I called another woman on that, by asking her, "So, it's okay if the nurses strap your grandmother to her bed and ignore her when she calls for help, since she has dementia and won't remember it?" (Her grandmother is really far gone, and doesn't remember anything for more than a few minutes.)

I got a nasty look and "It's not the same thing." I still can't figure out WHY it's different....









*which puzzles me, because doesn't that defeat the purpose of sleep training?

That is so ridiculous. I know we most likely all get this here, but I'll say it anyway. Babies might not have actual memories later in life but their brains develop according to what they experience as infants. So, yes, their brains will remember and their future personalities and behaviours will be influenced by what happened to them and what they were taught as infants. Just like learning to talk. We do not remember actual interactions where we learned certain words, but we remember the words and know how to talk.

On another note, I really do not get why people care so much about having a regular feeding schedule or less feedings throughout the day. It's not like it's a lot of work to feed a baby. At the same time, those same parents, are watching growth charts and measuring everything. It just makes no sense.


----------



## Peony (Nov 27, 2003)

My BIL and SIL swear by Babywise and then lecture DH about how to fix our "unruly" children. I should mention that their first child isn't even 1 yet, but they have all the answers.







Thank goodness they live across the country and we never see them.


----------



## eurobin (Aug 20, 2006)

to be polite, babywise is not my style.

to be truthful, babywise is abusive.

i'd gladly let my miss anna run around like nuthead rather than squelch her soul.


----------



## sparklefairy (May 21, 2005)

Yup. I left a party once because the hosts put their baby in her crib (she started crying as soon as they opened the bedroom door!) and left her there screaming. There was a stereo speaker outside her room blaring but we could hear her over it. I guess we were just supposed to pretend nothing was happening. Even the older guests (supposedly of the "cio" generation) were horrified.

This was a honeymoon baby and these parents were very determined that she would not change their lives or "ruin" their marriage.

We lost touch with them soon after.


----------



## mrspineau (Jan 15, 2008)

I really don't know anything about babywise. I do know that to leave my baby crying just doesn't make any sense. Also, I am not understanding the whole "feed the baby and nap the baby on schedule" thing. How do you even do that? My sister does it, she has a seven month old. He eats and sleeps on schedule, so much so that she will do absolutely NOTHING that could possible disrupt his schedule even slightly. But she also doesn't believe in crying it out. My son will not eat when he's not hungry, will not sleep when hes not tired, and will cry if he is hungry until he is fed. So I don't even know how I would go about putting him on a schedule even if I wanted to. But really, it doesn't matter to me if he is on a schedule because I am at home anyways and I am comfortable breastfeeding him anywhere. But anyhow, this babywise stuff doesn't sound so "wise" to me.


----------



## Kelly Jene (Jun 8, 2008)

Oh boy could I go off on how insane this "program" is. I do know the Ezzo's believe kids should be seen and not heard. They don't want the kids to interfere in their parents lives. (WHAT??!!) They also believe in first notice obedience. They obey immediately or they are punished and they say the parents are encouraging bad behavior if the kids aren't punished right away.

I've read one of their books that deal with child-rearing, babies, all of it and it's like you're reading some sick horror novel, but it's real and yes, people really do devote their lives to following it. It's garbage, it's abusive and it's wrong.


----------



## Lolagirl (Jan 7, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mrspineau* 
I really don't know anything about babywise. I do know that to leave my baby crying just doesn't make any sense. Also, I am not understanding the whole "feed the baby and nap the baby on schedule" thing. How do you even do that? My sister does it, she has a seven month old. He eats and sleeps on schedule, so much so that she will do absolutely NOTHING that could possible disrupt his schedule even slightly. But she also doesn't believe in crying it out. My son will not eat when he's not hungry, will not sleep when hes not tired, and will cry if he is hungry until he is fed. So I don't even know how I would go about putting him on a schedule even if I wanted to. But really, it doesn't matter to me if he is on a schedule because I am at home anyways and I am comfortable breastfeeding him anywhere. But anyhow, this babywise stuff doesn't sound so "wise" to me.

My kids are very, very set in their own routine that follows the clock almost to the minute, but it's one that they pretty much developed on their own. I joke that it almost seems as if they have little clocks installed in their behinds, because if we miss stuff like their mealtimes or snacktimes by even a few minutes they will come to me and remind me (and they definitely have no concept of reading an actual clock down yet.) And the scenes and tantrums that result if we do miss the snack/meal window are epic. Up until a few months ago, they were the same way with their naps, if I missed their set naptime by a few minutes they were a total mess and they would ask to go sleep.

Some kids are just very dependent on their routine and become very unhappy and even disoriented if life strays too much from their set routine. My kids fall firmly into this camp, and it's very important to me to respect that and stick to their schedule as a result.

Just my $.02


----------



## cotopaxi (Sep 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mrspineau* 
Also, I am not understanding the whole "feed the baby and nap the baby on schedule" thing. How do you even do that?

One of my friends is like this. She did do CIO too but not until like 4 months I think. If the baby cried for milk before it was "time" she'd walk with her, bounce her, etc. to try to calm her until closer to the appointed time...


----------



## maliceinwonderland (Apr 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cotopaxi* 
One of my friends is like this. She did do CIO too but not until like 4 months I think. If the baby cried for milk before it was "time" she'd walk with her, bounce her, etc. to try to calm her until closer to the appointed time...

Is it just me, or does this seem like it would be MORE work than just feeding the kid when it tells you it's hungry the first time.

I dunno, maybe I'm just lazy


----------



## cotopaxi (Sep 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maliceinwonderland* 
Is it just me, or does this seem like it would be MORE work than just feeding the kid when it tells you it's hungry the first time.

It seems like MUCH more work to me. Her rationale was to do the work get her on a schedule in hopes that that would make life easier in the long run. People also believe that if you can "train" lo to go longer between feeds during the day they will sleep for longer stretches at night.

NEITHER has been true in my experience. They change so quickly that to me there's no point in trying to get them to stick to a schedule before they're ready.


----------



## thebarkingbird (Dec 2, 2005)

my aunt nursed on a strict schedule. i have no idea how she did it so long. she nursed both her kids for about a year and from birth they ate every 4 hours. i think it's easier if you start at birth 'cause they're so sleepy you just wake them to eat every 4 hours. i dunno. worked for her and she says that knowing it wasn't always on demand made it possible for her to do it much longer than many of the people she knew at the time. so it was a good decision for her but i have no idea how she kept her supply up! she was ap before there was a word for it. the kids liked the schedule and didn't really fuss much about it as i recall. she also helled them all the time. that was a huge deal before anybody knew about slings.

i don't think scheduling is a bad thing in itself. i think it's terrible to make anyone cry for food though.


----------



## uccellina (Jan 26, 2006)

Salon.com article about Babywise. Fascinating read.


----------



## AnutaCielo (Jun 28, 2008)

I've never heard of this book before, now learning about it makes my heart break for those poor babies who were subject to such a "parenting" as described in the article...
Why some people find it acceptable to treat innocent helpless babies the way they would never dare treat any of their friends or a partner is simply beyond me


----------



## ~Boudicca~ (Sep 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *uccellina* 
Salon.com article about Babywise. Fascinating read.

This article was fascinating, thank you. The last page gave me the creeps.

I have never read any of Ezzo's books, but I have read plenty about them. And from what I have heard about the concepts he touts in his books make absolutely no sense.


----------



## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cotopaxi* 
One of my friends is like this. She did do CIO too but not until like 4 months I think. If the baby cried for milk before it was "time" she'd walk with her, bounce her, etc. to try to calm her until closer to the appointed time...

Yes, this is exactly what our friends do. Usually they end up feeding her "early" because she gets so pissed off .. but in the meantime, they make so much more work for themselves b/c they are trying to keep her happy until it's "time".


----------



## shannonnc78 (May 15, 2008)

I wish people realized that just because a book gets published doesn't mean that the information in it is good, researched, based in reality or science, or well-informed. I think too many people buy into this crap because "if it's in a book it must be good information, right?" I wish that people would be better informed consumers, especially when it comes to how they're going to treat their children. A simple web search for Ezzo turns up all kinds of horror stories. Babywise and the Ezzos makes me sick.


----------



## mustangtbn (Jun 23, 2007)

Amazing what people will do and think it's ok because they saw it in a book. I began to read it once, but was very turned off at how disparaging and uninformed it was towards other (i.e., AP) parenting styles. I figured if he didn't know what he was talking about in the first chapter, why would the rest of the book be different?

Later I read the stories about the BabyWise babies experiencing failure to thrive, and that apparently some of Ezzo's own adult children have chosen to cut him completely out of their lives. Not exactly the long-term parenting results I'm shooting for.

DH's boss is a BabyWise fanatic (sadly and somewhat shockingly, because otherwise he's a super-cool, thoughtful guy). He pushes the book to everyone every time parenting comes up like he thinks it's gospel - to the point where it caused a small conflict between DH and him when DD was small and said boss didn't know when to keep his mouth shut. We just continue on happily with our AP ways, although from that point on said boss was no longer privy to any info about DD - DH was under strict orders to answer any and all questions with "she's fine". When some of our coworkers recently had a high-needs baby, though, guess who they turned to for advice? Us crazy AP-ers!


----------



## 2lilsweetfoxes (Apr 11, 2005)

My parenting style when my kids were infants was melded from inspiration of several. I did read Babywise and took the scheduling from it, but twisted it. Instead of Eat, Play, Sleep, I made it Eat, Play, Eat, Sleep and instead of not feeding my child until X hours were up, I used it to say: be sure to feed your child at least every X hours--I'm a scatterbrain who often lets time slip, so if I did not pay attention and my child did not "ask", then I can see myself actually forgetting to feed the baby. (I also found that if I fed the baby before a nap, he or she would nap longer...so I could get a shower or meal in for myself). But, all in all, our schedule was very loose--we never followed the clock, but tried to keep a rhythm to our day. I gave up trying to schedule with our first because when dh would be home on weekends, he'd want to do stuff and it was not fair to him to say "no...we have to be home by X time because dd needs to eat/nap/whatever"--we'd have missed many an excellent day trip.


----------



## Suzannah (Nov 19, 2001)

Interesting that Ferber - the CIO dude - comes out against the sleep schedule of Babywise in the article.


----------



## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

I don't think a schedule is a bad thing .. if your child sets the schedule and you are willing to change it as your child's needs change.

DS thrived on a schedule, one he set. So yeah, I was the Mom who wouldn't go out to lunch because it was naptime, and had to be home at a certain time to do our bedtime routine, etc. But that was also because ds thrived on his schedule and was so much happier and slept much better when our day followed the usual pattern.

What I can't understand is having a fussy baby who is obviously hungry and NOT feeding them, spending an hour or more trying to soothe and distract them because it's not "time" to eat. To me, it seems so much easier to just feed the baby and everyone is happy.









I found it incredibly sad in that article how many babies had FTT after their parents did Babywise. I can't imagine what those poor babies went through. I know our friends that do it end up feeding their baby because she gets so upset, she MAKES them feed her early.







But what about the parents that are hard-core about it and make their baby wait? That is just sad, and abusive, IMO.


----------



## Suzannah (Nov 19, 2001)

I remembered when I was about 10 months PP, I went to visit a friend with a new baby; she was doing Babywise at the time and had her 4 month old on a feeding schedule. Well, I was nursing (or feeding breastmilk in a bottle, in the case of DH) on demand and had..ahem...ample bosoms, very smelly milk. I couldn't get near my friend's baby; the baby was so hungry all the time that every time I came near and she smelled milk she went crazy and started screaming. It was awful.

I was so in my own little AP world that I didn't know much about what she was doing - just knew it wasn't for me. Yes, we were on a schedule, but it was really based on DD. We wouldn't cut short activities to nap, but she would fall asleep wherever we happened to be (or not - she wasn't much of a napper).


----------



## hippiemum21580 (Jul 14, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eurobin* 
to be polite, babywise is not my style.

to be truthful, babywise is abusive.

i'd gladly let my miss anna run around like nuthead rather than squelch her soul.

Well put.


----------



## hparsh (Jun 12, 2008)

It is abuse and neglect IMO









I can't be around people who let their babies cry or put them on rigid schedules. It just bothers me too much.


----------



## mommy2one0326 (Jul 4, 2008)

I've heard some really bad things about babywise so I won't read it...it would just upset me. I was told at our 6 day breastfeeding course for work that babywise has been linked to Failure to thrive.


----------



## Blucactus (Nov 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New_Natural_Mom* 
I just looked Babywise up b/c I heard some people talking about it. This is some crazy stuff. Don't feed an infant on demand. Make them nap on a predetermined schedule. Only intervene in public. Make the infant respect the parents marriage. If I didn't see the website I would think it was a joke or a prank or something. Tell me there aren't people who actually buy this stuff??

I haven't read all the replies yet, but while I have a moment I wanted to say YES people ABSOLUTELY do Babywise & love it. If you know nothing else--want to do good by your kids--have your kids on a schedule--want someone to tell you how to care for baby step by step--want a 'solution' so your chidren turn out good, not 'spoiled'....it is appealing (and if you don't know better you don't see the massive red flags--low milk supply, baby not thriving, etc as being connected to Babywise, but as a general, random misfortune). Not to ME--but to people I know. nak

NOT endorsing it, DON"T believe in it, but there are people (I know some) who love their kids and do it and believe in it.







I have also seen people who are very scheduled themselves, or who think babies should be convenient and conform to the household/parent schedule and rules ASAP.


----------



## llamalluv (Aug 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Treasuremapper* 
I saw a booth displaying the Pearls books at a homeschooling conference. They also advertise in "the Old Schoolhouse" a prominent homeschooling magazine that also gets big name advertisers like Borders and Sonlight. I can't believe that any reputable organization would have anything to do with the Pearls.

The woman in church that gave me a copy of the Pearls' book (TTUAC and also CTBHH) had a child that died of birth defects shortly before his first birthday. His doctors had told them to not let him cry, because crying puts pressure on the heart and prolonged crying causes stress and excess stress hormone (both true). So, they didn't let him cry, ever. Her husband says, "We're glad we didn't [let him cry], because he didn't need to learn anything anyway." They still advocate CIO and spankings for babies, because that's how they raised their two older daughters. I am still trying to figure out what an infant LEARNS from crying. Other than, "No one cares."

I'm also trying to figure out how these two life-long church members CANNOT see the doctrinal errors that riddle both books.


----------



## heatherdeg (Dec 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *YesandNo* 
There's a guy who works with DH who got puppies to "practice" for kids.... training them, putting them on a schedule, etc. They ended up having twins and they say that the puppy practice was critical to their success as parents. When I was pregnant they kept telling DH all their tactics as suggestions, which he related to me.

Honest-to-God, I advise couples all the time to get a dog first because it will make you better parents. That assumes, of course, that you treat the dog like a member of your family and not "the dog".

We learned about how dh and I needed to be consistent between one another as well as with the dog so that our little beast wasn't confused when things were this way with mom and that with dad--or rules changed by the day. We learned about deciphering poop to monitor health and how foods can affect their energy levels. We learned that those little beings who can't speak don't think the same way we do--and that we needed to "learn their language" so that everyone could be happy. We learned that sometimes, plans were going to be destroyed. We learned how to screen people that were going to care for our animals so that they'd be safe and cared for. But most of all we learned how to come together for the good of another being that was not ourselves--and to focus on that together.

"Techniques"? I don't know what they had. Maybe they didn't learn the same things we did. I WILL say that with the first dog, we WERE more towards the military/BabyWise end of raising our pup. We've had three dogs and by far he was the best one we had and we weren't just bonded--we were co-dependent with him. Sometimes I'm angry that we didn't do the same with the other two because one of them has such horrifying behavior issues that we've thought of finding her another home, but I didn't have the heart to be that way at the times.

On the other hand, as well as it worked for my dog, I never thought to do some of those things with my CHILD. (I'm specifically thinking of eating on a schedule here--which can be healthy for some dogs--and having a "going outside" schedule, which a dog completely "gets" and lives by with more peace than the alternative).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kelly Jene* 
They also believe in first notice obedience. They obey immediately or they are punished and they say the parents are encouraging bad behavior if the kids aren't punished right away.

I definitely believe that this is critical--at least with my own child. HOW you correct the action is another story. Often (especially when he was young) it was as easy as redirection. But we try to ensure that if our son is doing something dangerous or unacceptable, we catch it IMMEDIATELY before he starts to enjoy it too much. And if we don't, we ARE pretty much allowing him and enabling the behavior. Truly, I think it's cruel to watch a child do something that you know darn well isn't going to fly long-term, allow them to have fun and enjoy it a few times (especially if they are entertaining the adults and soaking up the spotlight), then tell them it's wrong/take it away.

Funny, but this IS a dog-training technique because if you don't correct the dog "in the act", they have no memory of it later and/or can't understand how a human relays to them what was done in the past. Okay... so there's a "technique"


----------



## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heatherdeg* 
I definitely believe that this is critical--at least with my own child. HOW you correct the action is another story. Often (especially when he was young) it was as easy as redirection. But we try to ensure that if our son is doing something dangerous or unacceptable, we catch it IMMEDIATELY before he starts to enjoy it too much. And if we don't, we ARE pretty much allowing him and enabling the behavior. Truly, I think it's cruel to watch a child do something that you know darn well isn't going to fly long-term, allow them to have fun and enjoy it a few times (especially if they are entertaining the adults and soaking up the spotlight), then tell them it's wrong/take it away.

Funny, but this IS a dog-training technique because if you don't correct the dog "in the act", they have no memory of it later and/or can't understand how a human relays to them what was done in the past. Okay... so there's a "technique"









That's not what they mean by first-time obedience though. They mean, comply immediately - to any command - right away, or else. That is not natural child development no matter how one deals with it later.

FTR I agree about the watching the child... depending. I think it is fine to acknowledge that a lot of 2 yr old behaviour would never fly "long term" without insisting that a 2 yr old behave like a 10 yr old.


----------



## heatherdeg (Dec 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
That's not what they mean by first-time obedience though. They mean, comply immediately - to any command - right away, or else. That is not natural child development no matter how one deals with it later.

Yeah... that's mildly insane.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
FTR I agree about the watching the child... depending. I think it is fine to acknowledge that a lot of 2 yr old behaviour would never fly "long term" without insisting that a 2 yr old behave like a 10 yr old.

No--I totally didn't mean that a 2yo should behave outside of their age capacity! I meant more like staying out of danger stuff--especially at such a young age. Like I don't really want to let him explore an outlet, enjoy it, THEN have to take it away once he's found something to love... kwim?

But I think you get that I wasn't talking about the ridiculousness they were pushing.


----------



## BunnySlippers (Oct 30, 2007)

I took a parent and tot class with a 'babywiser'.
She kept trying to push her 'knowledge' onto the parents. I was the only one to speak up to her. Every single class. There was a one new mom who did not speak much english and had a 2 month old. The 'teacher' latched onto her to try and get her to ignore her crying baby and dunk him under water. I fought 'her' tooth and nail to get the mom to understand she did not have to listen to the teacher, to follow her heart (which was trying to comfort her baby). That mom ended up droping out.


----------



## MamaPyratekk (Jun 22, 2008)

Ugh I've heard a lot of moms talk about Babywise, but I never looked into it. I had planned on reading up on it just because I like to be educated about things I DON'T agree with so I can compare them to the things I DO agree with (especially if someone is asking my opinion on something). But after reading the replies here I'm not sure I could stomach the read


----------



## BensMom (May 4, 2002)

Its amazing how many moms who follow babywise have either a baby who "self weans" at 4m or their milk "just dried up" at 4m. It has nothing to do with the fact that around 3-4m your hormones play less a factor in milk production, and it becomes more of a supply/demand issue. And PDF (parent directed feeding - ezzo lingo) doesnt ensure for a correct balance of supply and demand. Noooo. They never seem to get the link. But its ok, Babywise works with FFing too.







:

Makes me want to scream.

I think the religious version is even more vile than the secular one, because in that program, he ties his brand of child abuse to your faith. So if you dont follow it, you are not following god. Blech.


----------



## MamaPyratekk (Jun 22, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BensMom* 
I think the religious version is even more vile than the secular one, because in that program, he ties his brand of child abuse to your faith. So if you dont follow it, you are not following god. Blech.

As if the comments here didn't already make me cringe at the thought of reading Babywise...
They also have a religious version?! What are the concepts that are brought up to tie it into religion?


----------



## veryerin (Jul 29, 2007)

My sister plans to do babywise when she has kids. uke

Her church teaches classes on it.

I refuse to set foot in her church anymore, but when I used to visit her and go to her church, my husband always reminded me not to drink the koolaid.


----------



## pink gal (Feb 27, 2008)

There is a whole curriculum for older kids as well "Growing kids God's Way" as if you are not following God's will for your children if you don't parent their way.

Many mainline Christian publications have found fault in their use of scripture and their techniques.

Here's a link to The Christian Research Institute's paper on Growing Families International, The Ezzo's organization.
http://www.equip.org/site/c.muI1LaMN...B464/DG233.htm


----------



## boysmom2 (Jan 24, 2007)

I too have a friend who refers to Babywise as her "Bible." It makes me want to vomit. When her 1st was a newborn they would spend hours dressing and undressing him to keep him awake until it was "time" to sleep. She recommends starting the sleep training before 12 weeks and bought herself a pair of earplugs. They have 3 now, and every time they don't follow the schedule exactly, like they go to a party and the kids are up a bit later than usual, they have to DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN! It's not a one time investment to teach them forever how to sleep. And all of her kids have had developmental delays of one kind or another. I'm sure some of that would have been there regardless of their parenting, but I can't imagine this kind of treatment is helping in any way.

I can hardly stand to be around her with her kids. It's so sad to watch.


----------



## Chakra (Sep 7, 2006)

My friend did it with her baby. She was really big on the cio and scheduled naps/bedtime. And how dare him wake up in the night! They started letting him cio as a newborn throughthe night (alll frickin night) and he still did it until 4 months. Then he was transfered to the basement so they would not hear him cio. I thought of calling cps. Poor babies, they just wanna eat and snuggle with mama. Whats wrong with that?


----------



## Lizzardbits (Jan 21, 2006)

nak. over here in the UK, it isn't babywise as it is gina ford and her horrid horrid horrid (did i mention it is horrid?) new contented little baby book. ugh! there is even a website and forum for the fordists.

shortly after i moved from the US to the UK, my husband and i visited some new mutual internet friends and their 2 month old baby. she had clocks all over and was always watching them and at precisely x o'clock, baby was fed. then baby was put in baby's crib to cio for the scheduled nap. i was shocked, but what was worse is while we were listening to the baby monitor of baby screaming and coughing, the mother was praising her new "bible" that "helped her regain her life and sanity" and shoved the gina ford book in my face.

needless to say we have "lost touch" with them.


----------



## ebethmom (Jan 29, 2002)

My SIL uses Babywise. My Mom even bought a copy so she would know exactly how to follow SIL's instructions when she babysits. They know better than to even bring it up with me! The arrogance of the title "Growing Kids God's Way" just makes me want to uke

My nephew is the most easy going, placid baby. He goes right along with the scheduling without a problem. I know that Babywise would not have worked at all for my high needs ds. My dd had her own schedule, so she might have adapted to something more strict. I didn't feel inclined to try it, so I don't know.


----------



## becomingamama (Jul 17, 2008)

I have a great group of friends, but practically all of them read and swear by Babywise. It is now at the point where I don't know what to do...I can't really have them over at my house, because they let their babies scream when it is "sleep time" and it upsets my toddlers so much!

My husband and I finally borrowed the book and read it. The absolute worst chapter is about babies and crying. In my opinion, the worst part of the book is a paragraph that describes attachment parenting styles as "blocking a baby's cry". Ezzo says that a baby who is carried in a sling and co-sleeps cries very little, but "this is not a result of love, training, and an abiding sense of security. Such babies cry less because this parenting philosophy calls for the suppression of all crying." Wow, I cannot believe that is actually what people are reading.

I could go on forever...but, if you need to calm down after hearing about Babywise, I recommend reading The Continuum Concept!


----------



## cotopaxi (Sep 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *becomingamama* 
Such babies cry less because this parenting philosophy calls for the suppression of all crying." Wow, I cannot believe that is actually what people are reading.

Ooh that's whacked. I will have to think about actually reading it to see exactly what it says, troubling as it may be.

"Suppression of crying." By... comforting and meeting the baby's needs? Snort. That's like saying my DH is suppressing my expression of anger by failing to do jerky things for me to get mad about.


----------



## ContentMom (Jul 3, 2008)

A few years ago I had a friend that swore by Babywise. We ended up drifting apart; our mothering styles were too different. It always broke my heart when her baby was crying in the other room all by himself. A mommy knows what different cries mean, and I know her little guy was hungry. Babywise methods are so disheartening.









Babies need to be held and shown unconditional love. I know that it does not spoil them. I held mine all the time when they were babies, talked to them all the time, read and explained things, and spent all my time with them. I constantly get compliments about how well-behaved and intelligent my children are. I know that spending so much time with them, showing them love all the time, and treating them like real people (not the Babywise way) has helped shape who they are.


----------



## IdahoMom (Nov 8, 2005)

My SIL swore by it after using it with her 2nd baby. But that baby was very easygoing. Number 3 came along and wasn't having it, and her feelings changed (I think).


----------



## daughteroftruth (Jun 12, 2008)

Okay, well, I didn't read all the posts. I'm quite shocked at how many people have formed opionons without ever reading the book.

With that said, I have read the book. Course I've read almost every parenting book in our library. In every book I find things that I love, and things that I hate. But I take what works from my family, and throw away the rest. I find it hard to beleive taht a family can take only one "method" and apply it to a T and have it work with evey child.

I took the eat, play, sleep from it...which I have found in other methods as well, I took the laying a baby down awake and not nursing them to sleep...but I do swaddle and gently soothe then, then gradually they just seem to fall asleep on their own...and I've never had crying....I don't do crying (with the exception that sometimes my older one will cry when he gets over tiered, then there is just nothing in the world that will help except just leaving him be and letting him cry to sleep...but that only happens when he gets over tired..and sence we are all on a eat and sleep shedual...that happens only once in a blue moon. I also took the idea of full feedings, and spacing them out...right now with my 1 mo old its 6am is the first offical feeding of the start of his day, come 8am I offer him the breast again. And he usually takes it, if he acts hungry before that, then I feed (the book actually says, if baby gets hungry, then feed him, and never let baby get to the late signs of hunger (crying)..allways feed at the first signs of hunger rooting, or munching on hands. The idea is to guide the baby to full feedings vrs snacking, then instead of the baby falling asleep at the breast, do some play time then nap. AS far as the "respecting the parents marriage", its doesn't say anywear in the book that your to make the infant respect the marriage...its about the mother and father respecting the marriage and not forgetting how important their relationship is. Yes, bbaby is important...but I beleive (and alot of research supports this), that a healthy marriage is more likly to produce emotionally stable adults.

Everyone is entitled to their opinon on it...but I take what works for my family and I don't make any apologies for it. I don't take everything from the babywise...some things are just not right for our family...but that goes for all the things I've read...I loved "the happiest baby on the block"...and took with me swaddling...and it was a life savor...but I refuse to give a pacifire, or to be a human pacifier (did that with baby number two...and....well the first 8 months of baby number 2, was the worst and most exausting 8 mo of my life).

I also have many friends who use the Parent directed feeding method...no of us do it the same, we all just do what works. Most of us breastfeed...in fact most of us are avid breastfeeding advocates. And those of us who have breastfed have all been sucessfull at it....I know for sure that all of us made it past 6 mo...most past a year (I'm the only wone who has n't made it past a year...baby #1 self weaned at 8 mo, he was fed on demand, I had to force wean baby number #2 at 8 mo due to sever health issues, baby number three had to be weaned at 7 mo I was 5 mo pregnant, and after nursing my contractions would pick up, and I couldn't nurse and be on trabutaline..but she still gets breastmilk...and if I could get her to learn to latch back on, I would nurse her again...but she won't so I give it to her in a cup)....most of my breastfeeding friends who use the PDF method breast feed till around two.

I think to many people take the worst and assume the worst. But I would invite anyone into my home to see how what I do works. It feels that most people assume that if your not sold out APing, then your kids must be misrable, and if you have your kids on a shedual, then they are crying out of starvation and then sent to bed crying, then left crying....this just isn't allwyas true, and its definelty not true in our house hold. And remeber, that no matter what method somones usues, if they go off the deep end and don't use common sence, it makes the whole method look bad.

And as far as this Pearl's method goes...well, I thought I had heard of almost every parenting book out there...but I've never heard of that. Is that the name of the author...or the book? I probably won't read it, what we do works for us...plus I promised dh that I wouldn't force him to sit through any more parenting books (okay, I find them interesting...even if I don't plan on useing anything from it...its still interesting to hear all the different veiws and opinions).


----------



## tree-hugger (Jul 18, 2007)

At one of my baby groups, someone was advocating CIO. She said it worked like a charm for her friend even though the baby cried for 3 HOURS straight. I don't understand how people can do that to their tiny babies. Sounds like child abuse to me.


----------

