# resturant serving breastmilk icecream UPDATE it's been confiscated!



## LaughingHyena (May 4, 2004)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-12569011

I wonder how popular it will be. My first thought was is it really organic, wouldn't the women have to have completely organic diets for them to be able to claim that? I don't know anyone who has a 100% organic diet.

I don't know if I'd try it though, I've tasted my own milk many times but it would still feel a bit odd to try someone elses. I've also donated milk to a hospital milk bank which seems a better use than making icecream.


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## ramama (Apr 13, 2007)

I don't know. It saddens me that this milk is going to an ice cream parlor rather than a milk bank. Money talks, I suppose.


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## kythe (Dec 20, 2007)

I also see it as something of a waste. It seems to turn breastmilk into a novelty item. I'm not sure I would try it, because I also think breastmilk is better reserved for babies. Maybe time will tell, we will see what the response is to their business and whether it does help people become more open to breastfeeding.

At least they pasteurize it and have screened their donors. They are looking out for health concerns.


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## Ellp (Nov 18, 2004)

I read the article and while I had to laugh a little, I also see it as an opportunity for society to "normalize" breastmilk instead of seeing it as a toxic substance for anyone over 1yo.

I read an article once on public attitudes toward breastmilk in Mongolia, and not only was it widely accepted by young and old, it was revered and was drunk by adults. Wouldn't it be interesting if that were the case world wide?


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## mom2happy (Sep 19, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ellp*
> 
> I read the article and while I had to laugh a little, I also see it as an opportunity for society to "normalize" breastmilk instead of seeing it as a toxic substance for anyone over 1yo.
> 
> I read an article once on public attitudes toward breastmilk in Mongolia, and not only was it widely accepted by young and old, it was revered and was drunk by adults. Wouldn't it be interesting if that were the case world wide?


I read that article too. It was very interesting.

What a complete difference from our country where so many people think it is "disgusting".

I don't think anyone sees breastmilk as a toxic substance anywhere. I just think the attitude in this country is that breasts are for men to fondle and suck and people can't seperate that from what their primary function is. They are stuck with a perverted feeling about it.


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## 20605 (Oct 11, 2004)

I agree that its a waste of a precious resource.


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## Annie Mac (Dec 30, 2009)

It's just an awareness thing (and a good one too, the story is everywhere). I doubt it will be a regular addition to their menu. Even if it is, and some women want to sell their breastmilk to make ice cream, so what? It's not sacred. It's food. Making it into ice cream just highlights that fact. They were paid pretty well for their milk, too, btw (or she was, I think there was only one woman involved). I'd have done it.


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## swede (Nov 21, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rani*
> 
> I agree that its a waste of a precious resource.


But if everyone who could breastfeed, did breastfeed, there would be a huge surplus of milk.


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## mom2happy (Sep 19, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *swede*
> 
> But if everyone who could breastfeed, did breastfeed, there would be a huge surplus of milk.


That might be true, but none for me thanks!

It's for babies. They need it. Their umbilical cord is gone and that's why we have the food right away for them when they come out.

Adults can grow, find, pick, or kill their food and have the digestive systems for it.

I wouldnt pump milk out of my body for anyone but a baby who needed it.


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## Smokering (Sep 5, 2007)

Yeah, I find the waste aspect disconcerting too. I don't think breastmilk is just for babies (or toddlers!); apparently cancer patients benefit from it immensely. I believe during the Renaissance breastmilk was fed quite often to the sick and elderly. And that's pretty cool. But ice cream? Yeah, no. Also, from a Traditional Foods perspective, pasteurising it seems faintly heretical.


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## swede (Nov 21, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Smokering*
> 
> Yeah, I find the waste aspect disconcerting too. I don't think breastmilk is just for babies (or toddlers!); apparently cancer patients benefit from it immensely. I believe during the Renaissance breastmilk was fed quite often to the sick and elderly. And that's pretty cool. But ice cream? Yeah, no. Also, from a Traditional Foods perspective, pasteurising it seems faintly heretical.


But as long as 'her' baby is getting what she needs, then any surplus being used for 'any'thing can't be called 'wasteful'.I wouldn't eat it, but I don't think its wierd.


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## Smokering (Sep 5, 2007)

Quote:


> But as long as 'her' baby is getting what she needs, then any surplus being used for 'any'thing can't be called 'wasteful'.


I think it can, when there are literally millions of babies out there in need of it, and thousands of other ways adults can get their nutrition. Yes, it's not as wasteful as tipping it down the drain, but given the preciousness and - oddly enough - scarcity of the resource, it could be put to far, far better uses. It's like... if the blood bank desperately needs AB-negative blood, and someone with that blood type decides to siphon off a pint of his own blood every few weeks and make it into black pudding for a vampire-themed restaurant. Sure, it's his blood, so arguably he doesn't have to give it to anyone; but it seems like a frivolous thing to do with it when people are literally dying of the lack of it, and cow's blood is readily available for black pudding-making.

OK, that was a gross analogy.


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## Annie Mac (Dec 30, 2009)

I'm not sure the state of milk banks in England, where the ice cream is being served, but here in Canada, there is one. Yes, ONE bank. For the entire country. And there's a great deal of red tape to wade through before you can donate. I guess if the infrastructure is there to donate, and the desire to use donated milk is high then I can see it being viewed as wasteful. Otherwise, no.


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## Oubliette8 (Apr 15, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LaughingHyena*
> 
> I wonder how popular it will be. .


There was a blurb in my local paper today that said it had already sold out. Here's a similar article that says the same- http://news.discovery.com/human/breast-milk-ice-cream-110225.html


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## swede (Nov 21, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Annie Mac*
> 
> I'm not sure the state of milk banks in England, where the ice cream is being served, but here in Canada, there is one. Yes, ONE bank. For the entire country. And there's a great deal of red tape to wade through before you can donate. I guess if the infrastructure is there to donate, and the desire to use donated milk is high then I can see it being viewed as wasteful. Otherwise, no.


Yes, in some places, the donor has to pay to ship the milk! I don't think the blood analogy works. There is no substitute for blood. Babies can survive without breastmilk. And when you say "better uses" (smokering), how many of those babies have mothers who truly couldn't produce milk for them?


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *swede*
> 
> Yes, in some places, the donor has to pay to ship the milk! I don't think the blood analogy works. There is no substitute for blood. Babies can survive without breastmilk. And when you say "better uses" (smokering), how many of those babies have mothers who truly couldn't produce milk for them?


A lot of those babies are adopted, or parented by gay or single men, or by mothers who are ill and unable to safely breastfeed (as in taking hardcore drugs for their illness). I truly couldn't produce milk when DS was little, and neither could DH. Thankfully for us, babymoma was more than willing so we didn't even have to think about finding another donor.


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## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

I was thinking if breastfeeding moms could use something like this to supplement their income maybe more moms could make breastfeeding work. The ice cream is very expensive and the mom got about $24 (15 pounds) for 10 ounces of breast milk.


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## Eavesdrop (Nov 19, 2005)

Is it vegan?


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## Smokering (Sep 5, 2007)

Quote:


> And when you say "better uses" (smokering), how many of those babies have mothers who truly couldn't produce milk for them?


Is that the point? Even if a mother could breastfeed but chooses not to for the most frivolous or silly reason, it's still better for the baby to be fed donated breastmilk than formula. So it's still a far better use than making ice cream out of it. Yes, ideally babies should get breastmilk from their own mothers, but it's not their fault if their mothers won't do it, even if they can. Like bone marrow donation - ideally a relative will do it, but if someone's dying, who'd say "Well, your mother and sister were both matches, but they refused, so I'll make bone marrow soup out of mine instead!"? (OK, another gross analogy. I'm on a roll today...) In other words: the mothers might not "need" it, but the babies definitely do.

I do agree that the infrastructure of milk banks is a problem, but there are plenty of people who arrange donation privately. It can be done.

Eavesdrop: I believe the theory goes that breastmilk is indeed vegan, because it's freely given. Don't know about the ice cream itself, though - does it have egg yolks in it? Breastmilk isn't that creamy, so I imagine they'd have to use egg yolks or cream to make up the richness... unless they just used hindmilk, or even separated the cream from the breastmilk? Fascinating thought....


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## LaughingHyena (May 4, 2004)

Quote:


> I'm not sure the state of milk banks in England, where the ice cream is being served, but here in Canada, there is one. Yes, ONE bank. For the entire country. And there's a great deal of red tape to wade through before you can donate. I guess if the infrastructure is there to donate, and the desire to use donated milk is high then I can see it being viewed as wasteful. Otherwise, no.


I'm not sure how many milk banks there are, the one I donated to was about an hour away. They had a midwife who lived locally to me who collected the milk and took it in, I was to far away for there general collection round to cover me. They supplied sterile bottles and I rang them when I had run out of freezer space. From what they said most people who were offered donor milk for their LOs took it but they were only able to offer it to the sickest babies with the limited supplies. I remember them saying that 1oz was all these tiny babies needed for a day, that was what kept me doing it as I was never able to pump very much.


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## swede (Nov 21, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Smokering*
> 
> Is that the point? *Even if a mother could breastfeed but chooses not to for the most frivolous or silly reason, it's still better for the baby to be fed donated breastmilk than formula.* So it's still a far better use than making ice cream out of it. Yes, ideally babies should get breastmilk from their own mothers, but it's not their fault if their mothers won't do it, even if they can. Like bone marrow donation - ideally a relative will do it, but if someone's dying, who'd say "Well, your mother and sister were both matches, but they refused, so I'll make bone marrow soup out of mine instead!"? (OK, another gross analogy. I'm on a roll today...) In other words: the mothers might not "need" it, but the babies definitely do.
> 
> ...


What I meant was, how many women who "choose" not to breastfeed, would then go ahead and use donor milk?


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## Eavesdrop (Nov 19, 2005)

> It's hers to sell. No need to put a moral weight on it. Many people 'waste' things that would be better put to use elsewhere.


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## DaughterOfKali (Jul 15, 2007)

My initial thought was "That's weird" but then I had another thought. Drinking milk from an entirely different species is the weird thing (and yes, I eat/drink dairy.)


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Smokering*
> I think it can, when there are literally millions of babies out there in need of it, and thousands of other ways adults can get their nutrition. Yes, it's not as wasteful as tipping it down the drain, but given the preciousness and - oddly enough - scarcity of the resource, it could be put to far, far better uses.


I see what you're saying, but the same argument could apply whenever you buy anything that you don't absolutely need. There are millions of people out there starving and dying of preventable disease, so any money we spend on a new cell phone, or roller skates for our kids' birthdays, or even a pack of gum could be saving someone's life instead. And yet most of us make the decision to spend at least some money on wants instead of just meeting our basic needs and then giving all the excess money to charity.


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## Smokering (Sep 5, 2007)

Quote:


> What I meant was, how many women who "choose" not to breastfeed, would then go ahead and use donor milk?


Dunno. Some might. There are women who choose not to breastfeed because they worry it will "ruin" their breasts, or they don't want to be tied to the baby, or they have issues with past sexual abuse. Those reasons wouldn't preclude them from using donor milk, as opposed to the "ew breastfeeding is gross" mentality. If it were a) readily available and b) well-marketed (and perhaps even c) subsidised), it might become a more attractive option than formula for some women at least.

Quote:


> I see what you're saying, but the same argument could apply whenever you buy anything that you don't absolutely need. There are millions of people out there starving and dying of preventable disease, so any money we spend on a new cell phone, or roller skates for our kids' birthdays, or even a pack of gum could be saving someone's life instead. And yet most of us make the decision to spend at least some money on wants instead of just meeting our basic needs and then giving all the excess money to charity.


Sure, except that breastmilk is a rather more specific substance than money. Fewer people can produce it, it has qualities that can't be substituted (whereas you can donate money or food or clothes or time to combat poverty, etc). Plus, in the majority of cases, breastmilk isn't "earned" the way money is - hence my blood donor analogy. And anyway, we're not talking about buying excess things - I'm sure plenty of people here have issues with rampant consumerism.

Don't misunderstand me - I'm not saying women should be forced into giving their excess breastmilk to a milk bank, or prevented from selling it to a frivolous cause. It is, after all, their milk. All I'm saying is that I don't like it - it's using an incredibly needed, incredibly precious resource in a frivolous manner. No adult will suffer adverse health consequences through not having breastmilk ice cream, as far as we know; but there's a ton of research out there showing that babies who don't get breastmilk can suffer lifelong health problems and death because of it. It seems just messed up, like a rich person in Africa buying a ton of AIDS medication and using the bottles to make an attractive wall display. Sure it's his money, he can do it if he wants, but under the circumstances it seems crass. And I'd hazard a guess that most people would find it more crass (logically or illogically) than him simply having the money, because it's so darned obvious what the stuff is for and how it could best be used.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Smokering*
> It seems just messed up, like a rich person in Africa buying a ton of AIDS medication and using the bottles to make an attractive wall display. Sure it's his money, he can do it if he wants, but under the circumstances it seems crass.


Okay, I guess we should stop using analogies. It's too tempting for both of us to say, "Well that's not the same because..." We just disagree, that's all.


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## beckybird (Mar 29, 2009)

At first, I thought the breastmilk ice cream idea was great. I like to hear anything positive about breastmilk.
However, Smokering makes an excellent point. When you think about it, it is pretty sad that the milk isn't being used for somebody who might _need_ it. Her "blood pudding" analogy is spot on.


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## Eavesdrop (Nov 19, 2005)

The woman (according to the article, there's just one) who sold her breast milk to be made into ice cream isn't any more obligated to donate her milk to a milk bank to be given to actual babies than any other lactating woman is.


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## ramama (Apr 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Smokering*
> 
> Yeah, I find the waste aspect disconcerting too. I don't think breastmilk is just for babies (or toddlers!); apparently cancer patients benefit from it immensely. I believe during the Renaissance breastmilk was fed quite often to the sick and elderly. And that's pretty cool. But ice cream? Yeah, no. Also, from a Traditional Foods perspective, pasteurising it seems faintly heretical.


In the Middle Ages (and later) women commonly drank breastmilk (from another woman) during labor to ease the pain. There is evidence, in colonial America, that a reverend fell ill, and was on his death bed. His wife tended him at night and his diary reveals that she "supplies me with breastmilk" and he recovered and lived another 30 years. The history of the uses of breastmilk is quite interesting!


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## LaughingHyena (May 4, 2004)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-12569011

I wonder how popular it will be. My first thought was is it really organic, wouldn't the women have to have completely organic diets for them to be able to claim that? I don't know anyone who has a 100% organic diet.

I don't know if I'd try it though, I've tasted my own milk many times but it would still feel a bit odd to try someone elses. I've also donated milk to a hospital milk bank which seems a better use than making icecream.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-12615353

Two complaints and the council have confiscated the ice cream to make sure its safe. They say they are screening the donors and pasteurising the milk, assuming that's true (and I have no reason not to believe it) it should be safe. Milk banks use the same techniques and give the milk to the tiniest babies!

I guess if there aim was to get people talking they are achieving it.


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## Annie Mac (Dec 30, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LaughingHyena*
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-12569011
> 
> ...


Huh. Interesting. Can't say I'm too surprised. You can put BHA, BHT, nitrates, nitrites, my latest favourite azodicarbonamide (wiki it), etc. But breastmilk? NO WAY!


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eavesdrop*
> 
> Is it vegan?


I think it depends on how you define vegan. If you don't think it is exploiting the human animal that produces it, then I could see a vegan eating it. But maybe you'd want the mother to have a vegan diet, or there would be issues with it because of feeling like it was taking breastmilk from children, or something.


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