# Honour Roll/Potential Suspension - same kid, same day *sigh*



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

So, yesterday was report card day at ds1's school. He came home late (had rehearsal for the school musical after school, until 9:00 or something like that) with his report card. He's got almost all As and is on the honour roll. There were lots of comments about his hard work, etc. It was his usual good report card. He was also the gymnastics team captain (season just ended) and voted "Gymnast of the Year" by his teammates. He's been busting his butt for the musical - they're doing Litlte Shop of Horrors, and he's the puppeteer - for months. He's had a lot going on...

Anyway, after we looked over his report card, he said (more or less - can't remember the exact words) "mom - what do you do when you've screwed up really badly and done damage to someone else?' I said it really depended on what kind of screw up it was, and what kind of damage you did, but that the first step is to own up to it, and try to make amends, and asked what happened.

Without trying to describe the exact spot (not sure if it's the one I'm thinking of, anyway)...ds1 does a lot of Parkour/freerunning type stuff. He tried something inside the school, and landed successfully, but the platform he landed on was only drywall. He went right through it, into a room that he didn't even know was there. So, he scratched himself up and also put a big hole in the ceiling.

And, now, he's facing a suspension (but not until after the musical, which opens next Wednesday). I was a total juvenile delinquent, but I managed to avoid ever damaging school property. This is just so...weird...


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## FiveLittleMonkeys (Jan 21, 2009)

Even good kids make mistakes. He didn't intentionally hurt the drywall, and while he shouldn't have been doing the moves IN school, kids do silly things. Impulse control and all that. I just don't know that I could even come down too hard on my kid if they were otherwise an excellent kid - as your son is. I think I'd go in with him, offer to pay for the repairs (and have DS do so - whether through working at home to pay you back, or doing jobs around the neighborhood to earn the money) and if the school still insists he serve the suspension, accept it and move on.

Your poor DS - I bet he was so shocked when that happened. I can only imagine what he was thinking.....


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

We're meeting with them tomorrow morning. I don't agree with the suspension at all. He's already willing to pay the repairs (he has a part-time job, and this will probably eat several weeks/months wages out of his savings), and he got hurt, himself, so it's not as if he hasn't learned a lesson already, yk? We're going to suggest financial reparations, plus some kind of around the school service (volunteer at the affiliated Boys and Girls Club, garbage detail, whatever). Suspension just makes no sense to me.

ETA: Honestly, after the initial "you did what??" reaction, I had to laugh. I can only imagine his face as he went through. One of his best frinds saw it, and I feel sorry for her, because she apparently freaked out - thought he'd died or something. (I can relate - he was warming up on the rings the provincial gymnastics finals last year, and one of them came loose while he was upside down, and he plummeted to the mat. I've never been so scared in my life.)


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

I think a suspension IS warranted since it is destruction of school property - whether it was intentional or not. "Good kids" screw up just as much as "bad kids" do. When they get caught they should do the same punishment as a "bad kid" would.

Now it doesn't mean it has to be an out of school suspension. I work in a middle school & Out of School's are for the more serious things or repeat offenders of (the same)minor things.

They do alot of In School Suspensions. There were 6 kids(out of 450ish) put on in schools this morning alone. 3 i know of were for not having work finished. There is probably a couple of more now(quite a bit of stuff happens during the lunch hour).

In schools are typically 1 day. Out of Schools typically are 3 days though they can be less or more depending on the act.

IE, in Feb we had 14 girls caught drinking either at the school dance or before the school dance and showed up drunk. 2 of them were suspended that night. The other 12 would have gotten off with nothing if their friends hadn't been discussing it within the vicinity of teacher's ears. The ones who were caught drinking at the dance or found out after that they were drinking at the dance had 5 day out of schools. The others had 3 day out of schools. About half of them were up for honor, distinction & merit awards the week they were suspended. They staff discussed it & since those were based on grades & behaviour in the first 2 terms that those kids would still receive their awards.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I would push for an in school suspension, and you guys pay for the repairs. (if it's not too costly)

All kids do dumb things. He's owning up to it, and he's obviously a good and responsible kid. Hopefully they are looking for loopholes to keep him in school. (hence the "after the play" idea)

This is the kind of dumb stunt that ends up being brought up 30 years later at the reunion, or written about in the yearbook. In the end, this will be fine, and it will be funny in a few years.


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## Just1More (Jun 19, 2008)

Stuff like this is so dumb. No, I don't think he should be suspended. I think the main issue here is intent. Did he INTEND to hurt the property? Nope, so the punishment should not be as severe. It's still a life lesson. He should have to pay to fix it, but I think that's about all.

Why punish somebody for an accident? And the last time I checked, kids were always running, jumping, etc in the school. We did... Pbff, we used to have track practice in the hallways on rainy days.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CarrieMF*
> 
> I think a suspension IS warranted since it is destruction of school property - whether it was intentional or not. "Good kids" screw up just as much as "bad kids" do. When they get caught they should do the same punishment as a "bad kid" would.
> 
> ...


ETA: I guess I just don't see the point in imposing a totally artificial, random consequence on something that already carried both a natural (hurting himself) and a logical (having to pay for the repairs) consequence. Suspenion has nothing to do with anything that happened.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nextcommercial*
> 
> I would push for an in school suspension, and you guys pay for the repairs. (if it's not too costly)
> 
> ...


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Just1More*
> 
> Stuff like this is so dumb. No, I don't think he should be suspended. I think the main issue here is intent. Did he INTEND to hurt the property? Nope, so the punishment should not be as severe. It's still a life lesson. He should have to pay to fix it, but I think that's about all.
> 
> Why punish somebody for an accident? And the last time I checked, kids were always running, jumping, etc in the school. We did... Pbff, we used to have track practice in the hallways on rainy days.


This. DS1 does take it to extremes, because he takes the running and jumping to extremes, in general. This was a very normal thing for him to do.

The band teacher was more worked up about him taking such a risk a week before the musical than she was about the property damage, though. (I'm not sure she understands how little risk the jump itself involved - ds1 is an exceptionally good judge of his own capabilities in this area. He's just not a great judge of structural integrity, apparently.) The principal is more concerned about the property, I think.


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## Chamomile Girl (Nov 4, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Just1More*
> 
> Stuff like this is so dumb. No, I don't think he should be suspended. I think the main issue here is intent. Did he INTEND to hurt the property? Nope, so the punishment should not be as severe. It's still a life lesson. He should have to pay to fix it, but I think that's about all.
> 
> Why punish somebody for an accident? And the last time I checked, kids were always running, jumping, etc in the school. We did... Pbff, we used to have track practice in the hallways on rainy days.


I totally agree with this. Aside from the fact that suspension is an inherently flawed punitive measure (I mean really...to punish a kid by telling them they can't go to class accomplishes what exactly?) your son did not intend to "damage school property". It's not like he was spray painting lewd phrases on the gym walls. I would also argue that there is an issue of lax supervision going on on the part of the school. The fact is that your son hurt himself on school property...they should be glad that you are not looking to sue them and leave it at that (I realize that you are in Canada, but here in the US that school would be crapping themselves).

I hope that you can come to a reasonable compromise with them that does not include suspension. If they do insist on suspending him they are being hugely hypocritical by not having him miss school until after the school musical. Sorry, but if they truly believe suspension to be a just punishment it doesn't make sense to reward your son by allowing his continued participation in the musical but insist that he miss out on his educational opportunities.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chamomile Girl*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


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## FiveLittleMonkeys (Jan 21, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> We're meeting with them tomorrow morning. I don't agree with the suspension at all. He's already willing to pay the repairs (he has a part-time job, and this will probably eat several weeks/months wages out of his savings), and he got hurt, himself, so it's not as if he hasn't learned a lesson already, yk? We're going to suggest financial reparations, plus some kind of around the school service (volunteer at the affiliated Boys and Girls Club, garbage detail, whatever). Suspension just makes no sense to me.
> 
> ETA: Honestly, after the initial "you did what??" reaction, *I had to laugh*. I can only imagine his face as he went through. One of his best frinds saw it, and I feel sorry for her, because she apparently freaked out - thought he'd died or something. (I can relate - he was warming up on the rings the provincial gymnastics finals last year, and one of them came loose while he was upside down, and he plummeted to the mat. I've never been so scared in my life.)


I don't really agree with the suspension either, I guess I didn't phrase my response well enough. I think the school should let him pay for it and move on. He didn't mean to destroy anything. I think intent should count for a lot.

Re: the bolded....after I read it, I laughed. I can imagine that if one of my kids did the same thing, after the initial, "What the heck were you thinking?!" that I would retire to my room and laugh for awhile. And then call my sister and laugh with her over it.

Hope the meeting with the school tomorrow goes well!


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chamomile Girl*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


And there's how you play hardball with them. They insist on the suspension, your ds doesn't do the play.

And don't "compromise" on an in school suspension either, unless you know it'll have educational merit. I've heard of schools where the in school suspension is doing a ton of busy work and then it gets thrown away--sort of the mental equivalent of the sort of hard labor old-time prisons had.

Mind you, I hope it doesn't come to that. Having him pay for the repairs, and doing some volunteer time makes soooo much more sense.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


> I think suspension falls under that "when the only tool you have is a hammer, ever problem looks like a nail" category


That's really the problem. It isn't the school or the teacher, or the administrator. It's the fact that every other possible consequence has been taken away from the school. In past years, kids could help clean up the school grounds as a repayment. But, now things they might come in contact with are more dangerous. Plus, parents have had so many fits about little precious having to work, that the only thing left is suspension.

There's a "no tolerance, no exception" rule now. The teachers can't see a kid with a Tylenol in their backpack without it being an automatic suspension. Because the administration and teachers are no longer allowed to use common sense. It's just one sweeping punishment. If you bring a Motrin, or bag of Oxycontin. The punishment is all the same. If a kid defends himself, and there are tapes to prove the kid was defending himself, both kids are still suspended. Nobody uses common sense anymore because they aren't allowed to.

The teacher is mad because he risked hurting himself before a big show. She's put most of the semester into this, and all the students have worked hard on this... so, of course she's upset that he would do something to hurt himself before the program. I don't blame her.

You can say "he knows his limits". But, the next kid doesn't. So, if he's allowed to jump through walls, the next kid will try to jump through a brick wall, because teenagers don't THINK. They just don't. There is scientific proof that they don't think. There are hours and hours of Youtube to prove they don't think. There are ENTIRE websites full of videos that prove teenagers don't think ahead. So, just because YOUR teenager can think ahead, there are 900 students in his school who can't.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nextcommercial*
> 
> That's really the problem. It isn't the school or the teacher, or the administrator. It's the fact that every other possible consequence has been taken away from the school. In past years, kids could help clean up the school grounds as a repayment. But, now things they might come in contact with are more dangerous. Plus, parents have had so many fits about little precious having to work, that the only thing left is suspension.
> 
> ...


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Just1More*
> 
> Stuff like this is so dumb. No, I don't think he should be suspended. I think the main issue here is intent. Did he INTEND to hurt the property? Nope, so the punishment should not be as severe. It's still a life lesson. He should have to pay to fix it, but I think that's about all.
> 
> Why punish somebody for an accident? And the last time I checked, kids were always running, jumping, etc in the school. We did... Pbff, we used to have track practice in the hallways on rainy days.


I totally agree.


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## marinak1977 (Feb 24, 2009)

Yep, I had to laugh too. I wish I could see his face as he was going through the wall.







Glad he's ok, and hope that the school administration comes to their senses and rescinds the suspension.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

If anything will keep other kids from trying to jump on a ceiling at school, it'll be your ds paying money--not any suspension.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan*
> 
> If anything will keep other kids from trying to jump on a ceiling at school, it'll be your ds paying money--not any suspension.


That's my feeling, too. The money is going to hit him where it hurts. He's put a lot of time and effort into earning it (and lost more than a little sleep), and he's also made huge efforts to save it up to a certain level. Added to the fact that he booked off for three weeks, to accommodate the increased rehearsal schedule and multiple performances (four evening, plus two matinees, for elementary students), so he hasn't made any money for the last little while, and this is going to be a nasty, nasty bite.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Oh - not that it matters much, but my anal retentive nature is niggling at me. He didn't go through a wall. He went through a ceiling. From what he described, he landed on both feet, and went right though, which would explain the scratches on his arms (I'd guess he had them raised) and his abdomen. Then, he fell to the floor of the room to which the ceiling belonged.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Suspension sounds like over kill in this situation. He didn't intend to cause damage, he is willing to pay for the damage he did cause, and he did suffer injury (albeit minor injury). At this point a suspension of any sort would fall under the "kicking a person when they're down" heading.

And really, who makes a floor out of only dry wall? Though your DS is lucky there weren't studs under there for support...


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MusicianDad*
> 
> Suspension sounds like over kill in this situation. He didn't intend to cause damage, he is willing to pay for the damage he did cause, and he did suffer injury (albeit minor injury). At this point a suspension of any sort would fall under the "kicking a person when they're down" heading.
> 
> And really, who makes a floor out of only dry wall? Though your DS is lucky there weren't studs under there for support...


It wasn't really a floor, either. There's a higher balcony/landing and then there's this lower level over by some light switches at the side of hte stage area (his school has this really weird multipurpose room - it's normally the caf, but also serves as their "event" room - the "stage" is also a hallway). DS1 and his friends thought that the level area was the top of a wide pillar, but it was actually a ceiling over a small room (storage room, probably - he said there were shelves in there). So, thinking that it was a solid roof piece, he jumped on it - but it was actually a drywall-only interior ceiling piece.

We're going to take a look at it in the morning.


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## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

I would still think the school would be liable that students had access to an area that was so structurally dangerous.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> It wasn't really a floor, either. There's a higher balcony/landing and then there's this lower level over by some light switches at the side of hte stage area (his school has this really weird multipurpose room - it's normally the caf, but also serves as their "event" room - the "stage" is also a hallway). DS1 and his friends thought that the level area was the top of a wide pillar, but it was actually a ceiling over a small room (storage room, probably - he said there were shelves in there). So, thinking that it was a solid roof piece, he jumped on it - but it was actually a drywall-only interior ceiling piece.
> 
> We're going to take a look at it in the morning.


lol Does the school want to suspend him for the damage or for going into an unauthorized area?


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ssh*
> 
> I would still think the school would be liable that students had access to an area that was so structurally dangerous.


Since the student in question does parkour, there may have been some jumping of perfectly reasonable railings involved.

This kind of accident is as much a standard risk of parkour as kicked shins are of soccer and bruised forearms are of volley ball.

(er, not that it happens nearly as frequently as those, but anytime you're moving freely through space, there's going to be a risk that things aren't quite as expected.)


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan*
> 
> Since the student in question does parkour, there may have been some jumping of perfectly reasonable railings involved.
> 
> ...


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan*
> 
> lol Does the school want to suspend him for the damage or for going into an unauthorized area?


That's a really good question. Maybe I'll ask them tomorrow...or maybe not.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

So.... your ds1 is a gymnast who does freerunning? Videos! I adore seeing people who are very competent kinesthetically.

Okay, I'll just go find some parkour videos and Cirque du Soleil stuff.

For that matter, just so people who aren't familiar with free running can have an idea of what your ds was up to:






(What's funny is that now I think that stuff is awesome, but when my little brother did infinitely more mild versions of the same stuff when I was a teen I just about fell over with embarrassment. )


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

Quote:


> Why punish somebody for an accident?


Breaking the platform may have been an accident but was the actions he was doing appropriate behaviour inside a school? If he was acting as a person should be in a building then the platform/ceiling would not have been broken. It doesn't matter if he didn't know that it was not wood he was not acting appropriately in the school.

Our schools have laptops for the kids. They have handles on them & the kids are supposed to use the handle to carry them. If a kid is holding it by the handle & drops it, not a big deal THAT is an accident. If the kid it holding it with 1 hand while jumping down the 2 steps from the portable, it drops & breaks then the kid is fully at fault for not acting in an appropriate manner & should be held accountable.

This kid has a part time job. He is old enough to know better than to do stunts in a school. If this kid was 6 or 7 the consequences would & should be different.

Quote:


> 'm not following this one very well. Which "other ones" got the 3 day suspensions?


The ones caught drinking AT the dance got 5days, the ones who were drinking BEFORE the dance(based on talking to all the girls involved) got 3 days.

Quote:


> Honour roll isn't dependent on behaviour here. It's strictly marks-based.


Honour roll is marks based here too, but Merit awards are marks/behaviour expectations based here & that was why it came into question with these girls.

Quote:


> And don't "compromise" on an in school suspension either, unless you know it'll have educational merit. I've heard of schools where the in school suspension is doing a ton of busy work and then it gets thrown away--sort of the mental equivalent of the sort of hard labor old-time prisons had.


At the school here an In-School suspension is doing the same work as the kids in the class they're just in a different room


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## Chamomile Girl (Nov 4, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CarrieMF*
> 
> Breaking the platform may have been an accident but was the actions he was doing appropriate behaviour inside a school? If he was acting as a person should be in a building then the platform/ceiling would not have been broken. It doesn't matter if he didn't know that it was not wood he was not acting appropriately in the school.
> 
> ...


Eye yai yai, I'm sorry but I just can't get behind the "not acting appropriately deserves lame punishment" sentiment. No matter how you cut it there is very little rationale behind a suspension. It's an old-school solution that is supposed to be shaming and purely punitive without any real behavioral modification merit.

And in regards to in-school suspension, they might be doing the same work but they are certainly not benefiting from the instruction associated with doing the work properly. Or does teaching not matter anymore?


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CarrieMF*
> 
> Breaking the platform may have been an accident but was the actions he was doing appropriate behaviour inside a school? If he was acting as a person should be in a building then the platform/ceiling would not have been broken. It doesn't matter if he didn't know that it was not wood he was not acting appropriately in the school.
> 
> ...


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Okay - new question, based on ds1's conversation with the Vice Principal today...

Does anybody actually believe all that crap about the grade 12s/seniors being "leaders" of the school? I mean...seriously? DS1 got told that it was especially bad that he did this, because when grade 12 "leaders" do it, it makes it more likely that other kids will try it. I've heard all that "leaders" crap for years - they always trot it out at pointless assemblies and in stars-in-your-eyes assemblies. But, do people actually believe it? I've never met a younger student who saw the grade 12s as people to look up to or whatever. For the most part, they just aren't relevant to the worlds of the younger students.

DS1 said that he's heard lots of kids talk about wanting to make that jump, but nobody else has ever tried it. So, I really think they might want to reinforce it, because regardless of whether or not there are people who might follow him (which I doubt), there are people thinking of it independently. This story might dull interest for a while when it makes the rounds, but stories like that don't last forever. I can easily see this happening again.


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## LiLStar (Jul 7, 2006)

The "behaving inappropriately" doesn't hold water for me, because lets say there *had* been wood there like he thought, and probably had good reason to think because again.. who makes a ceiling with JUST drywall? That can't be safe for anyone in the room. Think wind storms, and debris. Ceiling=sturdy/wood is a pretty reasonable assumption. Okay, so assuming it was, and he'd made the jump successfully and not fallen through or caused damage, would he have been in trouble? I seriously doubt it. If they refuse to budge on the suspension, I'd probably try to make the days off school EXTRA special somehow. Any particular place he's been wanting to go freerunning at?  or cool amusement parks? I'd be like, "your school sucks, its time to PAAAARTY!" Stick it to them by turning a punishment into a reward. Getting hurt and paying for damage is PLENTY of consequence, so any further illogical punishments that aren't avoidable, I'd be quite tempted to simply negate!


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

I think suspension is overkill and pointless for something like this. I assume that if the place he jumped to had been sturdy and a teacher saw him, they probably would have said "Hey, come down from there! You can't be jumping around up there!" and that would have been the end of it. The fact that damage occurred doesn't make it a "worse" offense. I can absolutely see expecting him to pay for the repairs or do public service around the school to make up for the expense, but suspension? No. Especially if they're willing to make the suspension "convenient" for them by having it after the musical that they need your son for. That's like a star quarterback getting in trouble and getting suspended and barred from extracurricular activities - except for that big game coming up against the arch rivals that we just _have_ to win. I would definitely call them on that hypocrisy if it goes that way.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> DS1 said that he's heard lots of kids talk about wanting to make that jump, but nobody else has ever tried it. So, I really think they might want to reinforce it, because regardless of whether or not there are people who might follow him (which I doubt), there are people thinking of it independently. This story might dull interest for a while when it makes the rounds, but stories like that don't last forever. I can easily see this happening again.


It sounds to me like to school needs to make it clear that this platform is not an actual floor, but straight dry wall. Either that or make it a real floor instead of a floor look alike.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> Okay - new question, based on ds1's conversation with the Vice Principal today...
> 
> ...


People like your ds get the attention of younger students. At least in my high school there were those few upper classmen that "everyone" knew about doing cool things.

Of course, part of what made them cool was doing stuff we knew we couldn't do.

Like the guy who rode his bike into the school and then rode up the stairs to the 2nd floor. Or the two guys who regularly dressed in 3piece suits.


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## Ldavis24 (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan*
> 
> People like your ds get the attention of younger students. At least in my high school there were those few upper classmen that "everyone" knew about doing cool things.
> 
> ...


This would have garnered a small amount of attention in my high school, but not in a good way, mostly it would have been "what a bunch of weirdos (not that they are weird for dressing different, just saying how it would have been seen)!!" Kids wearing 3 piece suits would have been relegated to the same group of kids who wore shirts made entirely out of duct tape and fishnet









OP...Honestly I think it is BS that they want to suspend him but ONLY after the musical. Regardless if they can't do the musical without him, they want their cake and to eat it too.

I had an in school suspension once, for skipping to many days as a senior. They didn't even give us busy work, we were supposed to sit there and "think about what we did" for literally 6 hours with only ONE bathroom break...I just grabbed my stuff and left at the first bathroom break and nothing ever happened after that, I don't think they even noticed I left.

I'm with a PP, if they insist on suspending your DS I would demand it be done immediately and he miss the musical. I get that it is about everyone but the message they are sending with that is so messed up. Honestly, ok I am a sports nut here, it is like the NCAA suspending certain college football players but only after they get to play in the BCS because it is good for the ADULTS not the kid...Some lesson right, if you are important enough we will bend the rules just enough to fit OUR needs!


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan*
> 
> And there's how you play hardball with them. They insist on the suspension, your ds doesn't do the play.


Here's the thing - NO ONE is indispensable. Really. No, not even Audrey's puppeteer. They could easily find a teacher to pick up the slack, if not another kid. We've done Little Shop - and it's not THAT hard a job. Sorry. If your kid wants to do the musical? I wouldn't play that card.

As for the rest? Just because your son always does these sorts of stunts doesn't mean they're appropriate for the venue he performs them in. There does come a point when we should be able to expect our kids to use some level of common sense.

I'm not fond of suspension myself, but if that's the tool they use, then such is life.


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## Just1More (Jun 19, 2008)

There are places for your trickster ds in the world. And, you are right, he probably won't stop. My dh STILL does stuff, and he IS 30.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

will the suspension really effect anything in his life? Does it matter if he is suspended for a couple of days?

I agree that it's stupid to suspend a kid for a mistake, and he sounds like a great kid who immediately owned up to his error. I'm wondering if "suspending" is sort of like getting a sticker on a paper, it makes the school feel like they've done something and has an emotional impact on the student/parent, but really doesn't matter.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtiger*
> 
> Here's the thing - NO ONE is indispensable. Really. No, not even Audrey's puppeteer. They could easily find a teacher to pick up the slack, if not another kid. We've done Little Shop - and it's not THAT hard a job. Sorry. If your kid wants to do the musical? I wouldn't play that card.
> 
> ...


Thank you. That was my point all along, I just didn't say it so simply. Just because you CAN jump on the roof of a storage room, doesn't mean you SHOULD jump in it.

There should not be a sign for the kids saying "This ceiling cannot support your weight, it is only drywall". And, the school shouldn't make a ceiling stronger to support the weight of a teenager who might decide to jump on it. It is not the responsibility of the school to make ceilings safer for kids to jump on them.

This is why coffee cups have to say "Coffee is hot and can cause burns if spilled on skin". And why my new pack n Play says "do not use near open flame".


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtiger*
> 
> Here's the thing - NO ONE is indispensable. Really. No, not even Audrey's puppeteer. They could easily find a teacher to pick up the slack, if not another kid. We've done Little Shop - and it's not THAT hard a job. Sorry. If your kid wants to do the musical? I wouldn't play that card.
> 
> ...


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nextcommercial*
> 
> This is why coffee cups have to say "Coffee is hot and can cause burns if spilled on skin". And why my new pack n Play says "do not use near open flame".


I disagree completely. He definitely should have been certain of his jump target, but this isn't the kind of common sense thing that hot coffee or setting a Pack and Play on fire is. He knew he could make the jump, and had no way to know that ceilings can be made of substances that can't support a person's weight.


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## Lisa1970 (Jan 18, 2009)

I don't think he meant to damage it. But I am confused...where was this dry wall? Was it a place kids walk? I would be a little concerned the school was not safe enough if it has straight dry wall where kids walk or something.

I would let him serve the suspension with no computer or cell during that time and let it go. It does not sound like a big deal to me.


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## Lisa1970 (Jan 18, 2009)

So he was jumping on a ceiling or roof? That makes more sense then. I think that is a bigger deal because it sounds like a place he should not have been regardless of damages. I would keep him grounded until all time served.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

I just want to disagree with the statements that imply intent does not matter, rules are rules. This is definitely not the way the real world works. Intent is very important in a legal sense. Whether or not you INTENDED to do x absolutely may impact the consequences you face.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> I disagree completely. He definitely should have been certain of his jump target, but this isn't the kind of common sense thing that hot coffee or setting a Pack and Play on fire is. He knew he could make the jump, and had no way to know that ceilings can be made of substances that can't support a person's weight.


OK.. lets say he was at my house. I have a shed that my husband built. It might support the weight of a 17 yr old. He could easily jump on it from the ground. But, I would be very mad that he did... because it isn't HIS. It isn't YOURS it's mine, and I don't want him jumping on it. I also have closets inside my house that stick out, have a ceiling and there's enough space for a full size adult to stand on it without hitting their heads. But, I don't want someone jumping from the bed to land on the top of the closet. It could be done... but, I don't allow that in my house. I don't give a rat's tail if he's certain of his jumping target. It's not intended for jumping on, and it's mine. Not his.

I saw the video of the kid jumping off the Coke machine. I think he jumped from the roof of the building to the Coke machine, then he was going to jump from the Coke machine to a stair rail. But, he missed. FIne.. he expected to make the jump.... however it's not his Coke Machine. He was sure of his landing... but, it wasn't HIS.

I do agree that suspension is overdoing it. But, it's what they use.

As his parent, I would be incredibly proud that he was owning up to it, and he felt bad about it, and he intended to make it right. That is all we want in our kids.. someone who is responsible and intelligent. I am very impressed with him. I know many kids his same age that would just try to hide the evidence, or flat out lie to get out of trouble. Since he's more than willing to fix what he's done, I think that is best, and the suspension should be dropped. But, I wouldn't try to justify it by saying "he was sure of his landing". Because that isn't even the point. The point is, he had no business being up there at all.


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## JessBB (Apr 10, 2007)

I'm sorry, but I think doing acrobatics inside a school at any time is dumb, dangerous and should definitely be punished. Suspension may be a bit much but you aren't doing your son any favors okaying this behavior. If it was on private property he could well be arrested and charged.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

>Well, I see things differently, because I wouldn't/don't have an issue with this particular behaviour. DH is, admittedly, in the "there's no way he should be doing something like this in school" camp, though. I don't see why a school is an inappropriate venue for something like this. During school hours, with people all over the place? Sure. But, at 8:30 at night, when the halls are almost completely empty? I just don't see the big deal. I don't see this as being about common sense.

Given that he went through the ceiling? You don't see that it was inappropriate behavior? Okay. I see THAT differently.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtiger*
> 
> >Well, I see things differently, because I wouldn't/don't have an issue with this particular behaviour. DH is, admittedly, in the "there's no way he should be doing something like this in school" camp, though. I don't see why a school is an inappropriate venue for something like this. During school hours, with people all over the place? Sure. But, at 8:30 at night, when the halls are almost completely empty? I just don't see the big deal. I don't see this as being about common sense.
> 
> Given that he went through the ceiling? You don't see that it was inappropriate behavior? Okay. I see THAT differently.


*sigh*

I don't think it's inherently inappropriate to be doing acrobatics in school, is what I was getting at.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I'm back from our meeting.

He's not suspended. He'll be paying for the repairs, of course. He's also going to have to toe the line, because his grad privileges are "on hold" (ie. we have a stick to use to make you behave, even though you're clearly remorseful, have a 4 year, 7 month clean record, etc.), and he'll be doing some kind of school service. As expected, he was okay with this. He also embraced my suggestion that he spread the word about having to pay for this with is own money, as that will help deter people from doing it, since there seems to be a deep-seated desire to do so among the student body, in general. DH and I gave the Principal a heads-up about the fact that kids often talk about making this exact jump, and suggested that she put something on surface to dissuade them. A vase would look good, and do the job, imo. It's probably too expensive, but it would be a good idea to replace the railing on the overlooking balcony, too. It's about 8" deep, and even I found myself thinking that it would be easy to stand on (which is what ds1 did when he made the jump).

Having seen the spot, I'm astonished that ds1 jumped it, but I've never figured out how I ended up with a kid who's prone to this kind of thing in the first place. I'm one of the least kinesthetically gifted people on the planet! It would never have crossed my mind to jump to a surface like that.

I really, really dislike the Principal, but I always have. Even when I agreed with her, the way she phrased things set my teeth on edge. I let dh do most of the talking, because he's better at standing his ground without getting made than I am.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nextcommercial*
> 
> OK.. lets say he was at my house. I have a shed that my husband built. It might support the weight of a 17 yr old. He could easily jump on it from the ground. But, I would be very mad that he did... because it isn't HIS. It isn't YOURS it's mine, and I don't want him jumping on it. I also have closets inside my house that stick out, have a ceiling and there's enough space for a full size adult to stand on it without hitting their heads. But, I don't want someone jumping from the bed to land on the top of the closet. It could be done... but, I don't allow that in my house. I don't give a rat's tail if he's certain of his jumping target. It's not intended for jumping on, and it's mine. Not his.
> 
> ...


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LiLStar*
> 
> The "behaving inappropriately" doesn't hold water for me, because lets say there *had* been wood there like he thought, and probably had good reason to think because again.. who makes a ceiling with JUST drywall? That can't be safe for anyone in the room. Think wind storms, and debris. Ceiling=sturdy/wood is a pretty reasonable assumption.
> 
> ...


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* ETA: Honestly, after the initial "you did what??" reaction, I had to laugh. I can only imagine his face as he went through. One of his best friends saw it, and I feel sorry for her, because she apparently freaked out - thought he'd died or something. (I can relate - he was warming up on the rings the provincial gymnastics finals last year, and one of them came loose while he was upside down, and he plummeted to the mat. I've never been so scared in my life.)










That sounds like a scene from a movie!

I can totally see a kid doing that and not realizing it. Yes, he caused major damage. Yes, he probably should have thought ahead. But he's a teenager. They aren't renowned for their ability to think ahead! I don't think it's that big of a deal. He owned up to it (a very mature and responsible thing!), feels bad and is willing to make restitution. I agree that suspension is probably over the top, but I wouldn't argue too hard with the school. Schools get a lot of parents who try to rescue their kids from things they've done wrong. "Oh no, little (6'4") Johnny did really mean to body slam that freshman into the locker, he doesn't deserve detention..." So, they tend to be relatively inflexible about that sort of thing.

I guess I'd help him do what he needs to do, and then let the school deal with their end.


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## *MamaJen* (Apr 24, 2007)

Haven't read all the replies, but first of...parkour is awesome. I would be totally stoked if my DS got into it when he was older. I may have to cover my eyes a bunch, but I think it teaches kids such amazing lessons. It's great for kids to learn how to use their bodies like that in a context other than team sports. Outside of organized sports, it really seems like it's become criminalized for kids to be physical. Also, I've lurked on some of the message boards and their philosophy about things like self-growth and community and humility is really striking.

It seems like the school's response was ultimately pretty appropriate. Paying for the damages and community service is what I would have come up with too.

More to the point, I would be really proud of my DS for the way he responded. He made a mistake, he owned up to the damage he caused and he's willing to fix the mistake. It seems like he learned a good lesson from it. And he also learned a good parkour lesson about picking the right location for tricks, and for checking his target. I would have been angry if he had deliberately vandalized school property. This was an accident on par with sending a baseball through a neighbor's window. You fix what you broke, but you're not a bad person for breaking it.

Public high school is probably not an appropriate place for freerunning, and it sounds like your son knows this now. I think there's a lot of good lessons he's learning in this situation.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LynnS6*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LynnS6*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by **MamaJen**
> 
> Haven't read all the replies, but first of...parkour is awesome. I would be totally stoked if my DS got into it when he was older. *I may have to cover my eyes a bunch,* but I think it teaches kids such amazing lessons. It's great for kids to learn how to use their bodies like that in a context other than team sports. Outside of organized sports, it really seems like it's become criminalized for kids to be physical. Also, I've lurked on some of the message boards and their philosophy about things like self-growth and community and humility is really striking.
> 
> ...


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## insidevoice (Feb 16, 2011)

The kid was being a kid- testing his boundaries, and the school is going to punish him for.. being a kid? I fail to see the correlation between this and some middle-schoolers drinking at a dance. I tried to see the point there, but there is just no parallel.

In my dance and drama days, kids were doing stuff like this all the time- not as well- clearly, but we tried! Usually falling on our butts and embarrassing ourselves was the only real punishment. Any damage done was something we would be responsible to fix. This is a kid with one foot out the door of the highschool already, what kind of a message does it send to the younger kids that they can toe the line for most of their HS career and be all around good kids, and be treated the same way someone who really gets in trouble all the time is treated? Applying a one-size-fits-all approach doesn't work.

I'm glad you managed to advocate for him so he is not suspended, but it's inane that anyone had to waste time with this to begin with. It should have been a non-issue with the adult in charge simply letting him know that once he'd finished applying a couple band-aids they could start talking about the repair bill.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Oh - and to clarify (since I have a thing about leaving incorrect details hanging), ds1 didn't land on the floor. He landed on a cupboard, and it was the actual kitchen. I thought he'd walked out, but he apparently climbed back up to the platform (with the big hole in it) and then jumped down.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ldavis24*
> 
> This would have garnered a small amount of attention in my high school, but not in a good way, mostly it would have been "what a bunch of weirdos (not that they are weird for dressing different, just saying how it would have been seen)!!" Kids wearing 3 piece suits would have been relegated to the same group of kids who wore shirts made entirely out of duct tape and fishnet


lol And in my school, that sort of outfit wouldn't attract any particular attention. When we had spirit weeks with different decades, for the 60's a lot of people stopped wearing hippie-esque clothing and put on little suits and pill box hats. If someone had come to school in a kimono with a pompadour, it would've gotten more criticism for the mix of cultures than the style.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nextcommercial*
> 
> OK.. lets say he was at my house. I have a shed that my husband built. It might support the weight of a 17 yr old. He could easily jump on it from the ground. But, I would be very mad that he did... because it isn't HIS. It isn't YOURS it's mine, and I don't want him jumping on it. I also have closets inside my house that stick out, have a ceiling and there's enough space for a full size adult to stand on it without hitting their heads. But, I don't want someone jumping from the bed to land on the top of the closet. It could be done... but, I don't allow that in my house. I don't give a rat's tail if he's certain of his jumping target. It's not intended for jumping on, and it's mine. Not his.
> 
> ...


I just realized that I completely missed which post of mine you were responding to when I previously replied to this.

My post that you quoted had nothing to do with most of this. I was simply saying that equating this to the "coffee is hot" type warning signs is going overboard. Whether or not he shoudl have been jumping where he was, it's not obvious that the landing point won't support his weight.

Now that I've seen it, I think they should put a vase or something on the platform, actually. There are apparently a significant number of students who have commented about wanting to try the jump at some point. While I'm sure it's just talk for many of them, someone could really hurt themselves there. DS1 is unusually gifted with kinesthetic awareness and intelligence, and has also trained fairly heavily in gymnastics over the last 6-7 months. He's also a teetotaler and completely drug free. If someone less gifted, trained and sober tried it, they could kill themselves (yes - he could have, to - but it's very unlikely in his case). That ledge has only been there for five years, and now someone has gone ahead and done the jump. I think the results (the hole, the injury and the costs to him) will have some discouraging impact for the next couple of years...but if he did it, and others are thinking of it, he's very likely to be the first one, not the only on, to do it. From an adult perspective, I'm sure it's a perfectly logical structural set up. From a teenage perspective? It's just too temping. (This is the kind of layout that I'd have looked at in high school, and thought "hey - I bet someone could jump to that"...but I wasn't the type to do it.) I'd suggest a vase or flowers or something to the principal, but I think I'll let it wait. I get the feeling dh and I aren't her favourite people after this morning's meeting.


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## Laurski (Mar 13, 2010)

First, congratulations on raising a spectacular son! I'm so impressed with his willingness to be accountable for his actions and to take responsibility for remedying the fallout (no pun intended...







). The world would be a much better place if there were more people like him in the world.

Second, congrats to your son for the wonderful honors you mentioned in your first post. I appreciated the irony you must have experienced in hearing about both the honors *and* the potential suspension (which I'm glad he didn't get).


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> I just realized that I completely missed which post of mine you were responding to when I previously replied to this.
> 
> ...


So if he fixes it/pays to get it fixed, and all that they do is replace the drywall without reinforcing it, is your ds then liable if someone else does it an dgets hurt? I know this is Canada, but still...

And I'm so glad he didn't get suspended. Dd1 skipped two classes last week to go to the school library and work on a project. Apparently if it happens again, she gets suspended. Same as a kid that skipped two classes to go to the football field and smoke/drink/have sex/etc. I don't get that. Yeah, she skipped, but she was working at the time. And the penalty for not showing up to class? Not being alowed to show up to class. Great logic there!


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Irishmommy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Or they could paint "Jumping Fee $XXX + medical expenses" on the new ceiling. Or "Land at Your Own Risk." Or "Ask What Happened to The Last Guy Who Tried It."

Or, actually put some framing in there, and put the drywall on the bottom only, so that there's a normal ceiling inside the room, but from the top it is clearly not stable.

Of course it won't help for drunk/high people, but they aren't allowed at the school anyway so the ledge and ceiling combo could be a trap.....hmm.....


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan*
> 
> Or they could paint "Jumping Fee $XXX + medical expenses" on the new ceiling. Or "Land at Your Own Risk." Or "Ask What Happened to The Last Guy Who Tried It."
> 
> ...


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## Polliwog (Oct 29, 2006)

He's 18. Not really a kid any more. He did something stupid and is dealing with the consequences.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Polliwog*
> 
> He's 18. Not really a kid any more. He did something stupid and is dealing with the consequences.


Um, the consequences that he's dealing with would be just as reasonable for a 58 year old student at a college doing the same thing to a college ceiling.

In fact, the fact that a suspension probably wouldn't happen for a college student who did exactly the same thing, just proves how idiotic suspensions are.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan*
> 
> Um, the consequences that he's dealing with would be just as reasonable for a 58 year old student at a college doing the same thing to a college ceiling.
> 
> In fact, the fact that a suspension probably wouldn't happen for a college student who did exactly the same thing, just proves how idiotic suspensions are.


I agree.

I talked to him a little last night. He's just realized that he won't be allowed to play Ultimate, and that he probably won't be allowed to be an Outdoor School counselor this year (which he's really good at, so this is as big a loss to the Outdoor School as it is to him). He's pretty bummed now. And, as expected, this "consequence" has resulted in him now being pissed off. Before their disciplinary action, he was 100% apologetic and repentant. After their disciplinary action, he's pissed off, frustrated (because he can't even speak up for himself, as that could cost him his Grad Banquet) and feeling put upon. This is not, in any way, effective discipline.

DH and I had originally planned to only homeschool my other three kids though grade 7, then switch them into high school. I've been having my doubts about that for quite a while, and am not about 95% sure we'll homeschool through to the end. I'm really unimpressed with everything about the way this was handled, from the near-hysterical preliminary email from the band teacher to the admin, to the principal's "I'm the Queen" attitude, to the counter-productive, ineffective "consequences" they put into place. (I've always been unimpressed by their discipline structure, but I haven't had to actually deal with it before.)


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Yeah, I'd at least give your other kids a choice. I don't think this situation would be worth forbidding them from attending the high school, but it's definitely something they should know about before choosing it as an educational path.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan*
> 
> Yeah, I'd at least give your other kids a choice. I don't think this situation would be worth forbidding them from attending the high school, but it's definitely something they should know about before choosing it as an educational path.


Oh, yeah - I wasn't clear. If they want to go to high school (or even just give it a try), they're welcome to do that! I think that knowing ds1's friends, and seeing movies and such, has given it a bit of glamour in their eyes, in some ways, so they may want to at least check it out.


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## Mom2M (Sep 23, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MusicianDad*


I LOVE that scene!


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MusicianDad*


I just showed this to ds1. He got a big laugh when the third wall-running attempt ended with a broken wall...


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## intentionalmama (Aug 23, 2008)

I think you have a lot of wisdom in your following quote. Your boy has a lot of integrity; and it is unfortunate that your school authorities do not seem to recognize that. I think it is so good for him to have you as his mom. You get him; and I think it is good that he knows that; and can feel supported. It sounds like he has learned some great values; these are the kinds of traits (being authentic) that so many of us strive for.

Actually, something else occurred to me a little while ago. I was trying to figure out why the authorities in these situations seem to have so much trouble figuring out that just piling artificial consequences onto a kid backfires as often as it does. And, I think some of it ties into the whole forced apology thing. DS1 was expected to approach the Vice-Principal (who was along on the field trip yesterday) with an apology and explanation for his actions. And...I don't get it. Expecting an apology accomplishes what, exactly? If he's sorry, he'll apologize on his own. If he's not sorry, it won't mean anything if he does. But, this is an expectation, so lots of kids go through a meaningless, pro forma, apology, because it's expected. What that means is that when ds1 says, "I'm sorry - I screwed up", the staff doesn't realize that he means that. They probably assume that dh and I told him to say it, and he's doing what he's told. So, how are they supposed to realize that they're working on switching him from truly repentant to feeling picked on (he hasn't said this, but I know him, and it's probably happening), when they don't know that's he's truly repentant in the first place? To them, this is all the standard dance of offense-apology-restitution-stick/carrot-behaviour improvement (if any).

I have to say that when I have a kid who was talking to us for 10-15 minutes about what he did, and what the damage was, and how to fix it, etc. before he even told us that he'd hurt himself, it's kind of frustrating to watch this whole routine go down. We went in there with the position that he should pay for the damages, out of his own pocket, and do extra school service (he's a member of the Interact Club, so he already does a lot of service stuff), so it's not like we were saying, "let him off the hook"...


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *intentionalmama*
> 
> I think you have a lot of wisdom in your following quote. Your boy has a lot of integrity; and it is unfortunate that your school authorities do not seem to recognize that. I think it is so good for him to have you as his mom. *You get him;* and I think it is good that he knows that; and can feel supported. It sounds like he has learned some great values; these are the kinds of traits (being authentic) that so many of us strive for.


Thank you. This was nice to read, and also made me smile. DS1 had a bunch of friends over for birthday cake a couple weeks ago (we do a family dinner, then on another day, he does something - usually Laser Tag - with a group of friends, and comes home for cake). He doesn't have his friends here all that much, because we have a relatively small place, and three little kids underfoot, so he mostly socializes at the homes of his friends. His bff (one of them - he has one female, and one male, and they're a couple) laughed at something I said, then said, "I love your mom - she really gets you". It just seems funny that two totally separate people have said the exact same thing, for completely different reasons, only a couple weeks apart.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan*
> 
> In fact, the fact that a suspension probably wouldn't happen for a college student who did exactly the same thing, just proves how idiotic suspensions are.


You're right, the college student might be expelled. Saw it happen 5 times at my large state uni, especially for freshmen guys that destroyed property (accidental or otherwise) in the all-male dorm next the one I lived in. Though I guess there were drunken rampages all the time on the part of the football players, who apparently *did not* get expelled. Sure was a real good lesson on how "real life" works.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tigerchild*
> 
> You're right, the college student might be expelled. Saw it happen 5 times at my large state uni, especially for freshmen guys that destroyed property (accidental or otherwise) in the all-male dorm next the one I lived in. Though I guess there were drunken rampages all the time on the part of the football players, who apparently *did not* get expelled. Sure was a real good lesson on how "real life" works.


Did the first guy who did a particular act of destruction get expelled or just the other ones (less the football players)?


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Your average freshman still falls into the "we expect you to behave like an adult (according our definition of adult, which will never be spelled out to you) in all ways, and at all times, but if you ever make a mistake of any kind, rest assured that we'll treat you like you're six" age group, though. Sapphire_chan was specifically addressing more mature students. I haven't seen one of them do anything like that, but I suspect they'd be given the benefit of the doubt and dealt with in a fashion that depended largely on their own response to whatever happened.

And, honestly, if there were ongoing problems to that extent (that at least five guys got expelled over it) in the dorms, then it's a fairly safe bet that the particular behavioural issues at hand had been addressed, and more than once.


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Lisa, have you considered talking to the superintendent of your school at the board level? Even if nothing for your son gets rescinded, I think he/she should know what is going on.

And there are 6 years left before your next kid hits high school age. Chances are good that the principal won't be at that school by then, assuming BC is like Ontario.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Irishmommy*
> 
> And there are 6 years left before your next kid hits high school age. Chances are good that the principal won't be at that school by then, assuming BC is like Ontario.


I'm guessing your right, I had three principals when I was in high school. The longest one lasted about 2.5 years.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Irishmommy* 

Lisa, have you considered talking to the superintendent of your school at the board level? Even if nothing for your son gets rescinded, I think he/she should know what is going on.
I have to check, but if the superintendent is who I think it is, that would probably not be a good idea. He was the Vice-Principal when I went to the same school, and I'm quite sure he wouldn't take me seriously...and I'm equally sure he remembers me. Aside from the fact that I wasn't one of the "good" kids, he and I got along really, really, really badly.









And there are 6 years left before your next kid hits high school age. Chances are good that the principal won't be at that school by then, assuming BC is like Ontario.


> This is probably true, but this is her sixth year, already - she seems to have staying power.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Yes and no. Typically it was the first 1 or 2 people per year who were farting around and caused the damage (popping out the window screens, to be specific)--once that happened the damage...tended not to happen again, at least of the horsing around sort. So you could see it as an ongoing frustration of the university, but to be fair it happened with a 90 percent freshman all-male dorm, so the kids coming in each year didn't know it (or probably weren't paying attention at the 10 minute RA meeting) It did NOT stop the habitual drunks from throwing things like coke machines and mattresses and other things out the window (though they were expelled too) when they got drunk enough, so one could say that it didn't stop property damage altogether. When someone is made to pay heavy consequences, even if they're not a bad person or it was just one tiny stupid mistake or lack of judgement in the grand scheme of things, sometimes it is used to make an impression on those who are impressionable (with the understanding that there will always be a minority who are not.) But again, my point is that more than this Ye Bastion of Bureaucracy High School may take a dim view of "not a big deal" property damage even by people who might know better but probably could reasonably be expected to suffer from temporary judgement impairment from time to time.

I have seen similar cases of people being made an example of in the workplace. Or a zero tolerance workplace. My main point is that I take issue with the people saying that the "real world" doesn't dole out severe consequences sometimes even if there was no intention of harm. Maybe it's just the kinds of jobs I've had and whatnot, but my experience has been the opposite. Lots of people who just made a silly mistake sometimes get their butt handed to them, and it's not fair, but it *can certainly be* "real life". You don't get over the top consquences for poor judgement just in bureaucratic institutions.

Say it's not fair, say he should get a break, but don't say "that's not like real life." IMO. As always other people's mileage may vary vastly.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan*
> 
> Did the first guy who did a particular act of destruction get expelled or just the other ones (less the football players)?


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tigerchild*
> 
> Yes and no. Typically it was the first 1 or 2 people per year who were farting around and caused the damage (popping out the window screens, to be specific)--once that happened the damage...tended not to happen again, at least of the horsing around sort. So you could see it as an ongoing frustration of the university, but to be fair it happened with a 90 percent freshman all-male dorm, so the kids coming in each year didn't know it (or probably weren't paying attention at the 10 minute RA meeting) It did NOT stop the habitual drunks from throwing things like coke machines and mattresses and other things out the window (though they were expelled too) when they got drunk enough, so one could say that it didn't stop property damage altogether. When someone is made to pay heavy consequences, even if they're not a bad person or it was just one tiny stupid mistake or lack of judgement in the grand scheme of things, sometimes it is used to make an impression on those who are impressionable (with the understanding that there will always be a minority who are not.) But again, my point is that more than this Ye Bastion of Bureaucracy High School may take a dim view of "not a big deal" property damage even by people who might know better but probably could reasonably be expected to suffer from temporary judgement impairment from time to time.
> 
> ...


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## JessBB (Apr 10, 2007)

I'm sorry, I have followed this whole thread and I think you are being *WAY* too easy on your son. He did something really, really dumb and dangerous and so obviously against the rules. Period. How could a person possibly reasonably believe that doing indoor circus tricks anywhere but your own home or a gymnasium would be ok? Really? Really? And you seem way more focused on (a) your dislike and disdain of authority / bureaucracy & (b) how cool you think your son is, overall. I'm sorry, he's not responsible, no matter how sorry he might be (or seem to be) after the fact. He is 100% at fault and the rule he broke is obvious, necessary and totally reasonable. If this was a mall or something he could easily be arrested for destruction of property. He is almost an adult and this was a really bonehead move. He should take his lumps and move on.


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## Chamomile Girl (Nov 4, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JessBB*
> 
> I'm sorry, I have followed this whole thread and I think you are being *WAY* too easy on your son. He did something really, really dumb and dangerous and so obviously against the rules. Period. How could a person possibly reasonably believe that doing indoor circus tricks anywhere but your own home or a gymnasium would be ok? Really? Really? And you seem way more focused on (a) your dislike and disdain of authority / bureaucracy & (b) how cool you think your son is, overall. I'm sorry, he's not responsible, no matter how sorry he might be (or seem to be) after the fact. He is 100% at fault and the rule he broke is obvious, necessary and totally reasonable. If this was a mall or something he could easily be arrested for destruction of property. He is almost an adult and this was a really bonehead move. He should take his lumps and move on.


He admitted to being 100% at fault so I don't really see your point. I think that by admitting his fault he is showing responsibility. Unless you think that since he broke a rule suspension would have been an appropriate punishment? Or are you saying that he should not be resentful about the way his punishment was meted out by the authorities?

Yeah, someone can do something dumb and still be punished inappropriately for what they have done. Which is what this discussion is about really.

He is not an adult he is a teenager. Sorry, I work with teenagers...there is a BIG difference in terms of learning curve.


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## JessBB (Apr 10, 2007)

I guess my point is that I do not think the punishment is excessive. By "not responsible," I don't mean that he isn't taking responsibility after the fact, but rather the initial decision to act was not a responsible one. I know teenagers aren't adults, but this isn't a close call of a decision or some stupid arbitrary rule.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

I think paying for the damage and doing some sort of service work is a much more appropriate consequence than suspension. And it's great that he came to you and was so open about what happened and his responsibility for it. I'd be proud!

That said, I do agree with your DH that freerunning shouldn't be done on school grounds. For me, it falls into the realm of things like skateboarding, which are usually prohibited at school. Both activities carry a potential for personal injury and property damage, and aren't appropriate to do at school -- I can see the school being concerned from a liability perspective (although I live in lawsuit-happy California, so maybe I'm bringing my own experience into that viewpoint).


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## LiLStar (Jul 7, 2006)

Here's how I see it. What is the purpose of punishment/disciplinary action? Not in this situation, but in general. What results do we want? Imo, I think the ideal results are to make restitution, to feel remorse and to be sufficiently motivated to not repeat the offense. So, in this situation, we have a student who feels genuine remorse, (and not because he regrets the consequence) who never once tried to lie/cover up what he did, who has apologized, who recognizes that he made a poor choice, Is NOT going to do anything like that again, and is making restitution by paying for the damage himself, WILLINGLY and not trying to get out of it. He has HUMILITY. My gosh, what more do you want from him?! I think the ball is now in the school's court to FORGIVE. To punish further by suspension, or withholding other school privileges, is simply vengeful imo.


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## Chamomile Girl (Nov 4, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LiLStar*
> 
> Here's how I see it. What is the purpose of punishment/disciplinary action? Not in this situation, but in general. What results do we want? Imo, I think the ideal results are to make restitution, to feel remorse and to be sufficiently motivated to not repeat the offense. So, in this situation, we have a student who feels genuine remorse, (and not because he regrets the consequence) who never once tried to lie/cover up what he did, who has apologized, who recognizes that he made a poor choice, Is NOT going to do anything like that again, and is making restitution by paying for the damage himself, WILLINGLY and not trying to get out of it. He has HUMILITY. My gosh, what more do you want from him?! I think the ball is now in the school's court to FORGIVE. To punish further by suspension, or withholding other school privileges, is simply vengeful imo.


Or simply a power trip. Which is what I'm seeing.


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## MissMaegie'sMama (Jul 27, 2006)

Accidents happen, and it seems to me that he has probably learned a lesson in judgement and impulse control from this incident. He's not a "problem child," he's a kid who made an honest mistake. I think that suspension is uncalled for in a case like this. A student who is succeeding academically and is involved in a variety of extracurriculars who screws up one time (causing property damage, not bodily harm to another person) shouldn't face suspension, either in-school or at-home. I think if the school can involve him in the repair of the drywall platform and bill him for materials, he will have done his part to rectify his mistake and the damage he caused.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MissMaegie'sMama*
> 
> Accidents happen, and it seems to me that he has probably learned a lesson in judgement and impulse control from this incident. He's not a "problem child," he's a kid who made an honest mistake. I think that suspension is uncalled for in a case like this. A student who is succeeding academically and is involved in a variety of extracurriculars who screws up one time (causing property damage, not bodily harm to another person) shouldn't face suspension, either in-school or at-home. I think if the school can involve him in the repair of the drywall platform and bill him for materials, he will have done his part to rectify his mistake and the damage he caused.


This is how I feel about it, and I'd feel the same way if it weren't my son, as well. He can't be involved in the repair itself, as that will be handled by a contractor, but he will be doing extra school service, in lieu of that.


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## ChristyMarie (May 31, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JessBB*
> 
> I'm sorry, I have followed this whole thread and I think you are being *WAY* too easy on your son. He did something really, really dumb and dangerous and so obviously against the rules. Period. How could a person possibly reasonably believe that doing indoor circus tricks anywhere but your own home or a gymnasium would be ok? Really? Really? And you seem way more focused on (a) your dislike and disdain of authority / bureaucracy & (b) how cool you think your son is, overall. I'm sorry, he's not responsible, no matter how sorry he might be (or seem to be) after the fact. He is 100% at fault and the rule he broke is obvious, necessary and totally reasonable. If this was a mall or something he could easily be arrested for destruction of property. He is almost an adult and this was a really bonehead move. He should take his lumps and move on.


Really? He didn't jump on it intending to damage it. He was trying to do a cool move and fell. There was no way he could know that area would not support his weight. He is sorry, he feels responsible enough to want to rectify the situation financially. I think that is pretty mature thinking for a kid his age. If it was a mall I wouldn't be surprised to see the mall partially at fault for having an area not built to code. Because really, how is just drywall possibly to code?

The kid made a stupid mistake. And the school had some shoddy construction done in an easy accessed area. Sounds like the OP's son learned a good lesson. I wonder if the school did as well?

P.S. I completely agree that suspensions are usually pretty pointless. I was suspended once. Nice vacation day.

OP, this is going to be an AWESOME story in a few years. ;-)


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## Katwoman (Apr 15, 2004)

(Note: I have no idea what's up with the underlining. I can't turn it off. ARGH.)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JessBB*
> 
> I guess my point is that I do not think the punishment is excessive.


I'm really not trying to pick on you, but honestly this statement makes me think you've never done something bone headed in your life. (Or at least don't recognize your mistakes as boneheaded.) Most people, regardless of their age, really do have the capacity to learn from a boneheaded move/mistake. Of those that don't have the capacity to learn on their own, they can learn by natural/logical consequences tied to the boneheaded move. I bet if you asked 50 parents on this board that had been grounded or suspended for a significantly long period of time what their crime was the contributed to the consequence more than half of them wouldn't be able to tell you. But they would be able to tell you how they felt emotionally about being grounded like that, or emotionally how they felt by being dumped on by an adult in the situation simply because the adult COULD do anything they wanted to PUNISH the child/teenager that did the boneheaded move.

Logical consequences - you can't be on school property after school hours because you made a poor choice while unsupervised. Illogical consequence not tied to the crime - you can't go the the grad banguet where you will be around a swarm of people and not given any opportunity to come up with stunts because of the number of people there.

Honestly, the list given by the OP smacks of the principle piling on as much as possible for a reason other than making sure that future kids think before they act. Yes, you pile on enough and you will get compliance because kids want to graduate. But does compliance = teaching them something? Helping them learn to make better choices in the future? What are schools for? To create cattle that follow the rules no matter how arbitrary or are they there to teach kids and help them because good adults? (Yes, I realize this is a VERY simplistic statement and don't believe this is the proper format to debate this issue.)

I just think it's amazing that in our time where we're always complaining about people not thinking for themselves, need to own up to their mistakes, and how many really horrible crimes we have out there. We choose to take a kid who TOOK RESPONSIBILITY for the situation and make him out to be someone that needs to villafied. (Or however you spell that word.)

Honestly, how would you like it if you one day, in your sleep deprived state - those early baby days when we think we're thinking human but we're really too tired to breath - you had your baby in the "bucket" seat with a blanket on. You could have sworn that baby was buckled in all afternoon, but when you get home you realize the baby wasn't. Now society decides you can't be responsible for driving and parenting. You have to take cabs. Oh and by the way you can't take the baby in a cab because you need the baby in a car seat in the cab too. Or you can't take the baby out of the house without checking with a social worker first to make sure you've had enough sleep and strapped in the baby. Oh and there is a fine. And now your DH calls during the day to make sure you're watching the baby. Maybe throw in a parenting class too.

I realize that this is not a perfect example of the two situations. I just can't think of an exact situation as an adult to the one we are discussing here. But the reality is, adults do boneheaded things too. Most of the time nothing bad happens and we say our prayer of thanks and move on. But when something bad happens, I don't think you'd be very happy if you had someone just randomly piling on consequences just because they decided you had no capacity to learn from the situation so they had to make you suffer for the situation.

And don't forget there are sentencing recommendations for adults that do specific crimes. They can't stand in front of a judge and hope that judge didn't eat crappy wheaties that morning. Teenagers are not afforded that consideration.

Now I'm just irritated and on my soap box. I'm climbing off now.....


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

To be fair, if you happened to get in an accident along the way, and your baby was ejected from the car and died, the social ramifications would be just as severe, not to mention what you might do to YOURSELF. Most people, even here, get extremely angry and vindictive against parents who through a "one time" careless mistake cause their children death or immense pain and suffering--yet IMO they are just as deserving of compassion (more so, in my opinion) than people who make a stupid mistake with minimal consequence because they were freakin' lucky they didn't get t-boned or rear ended at the intersection.

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *Katwoman*
> 
> Honestly, how would you like it if you one day, in your sleep deprived state - those early baby days when we think we're thinking human but we're really too tired to breath - you had your baby in the "bucket" seat with a blanket on. You could have sworn that baby was buckled in all afternoon, but when you get home you realize the baby wasn't. Now society decides you can't be responsible for driving and parenting. You have to take cabs. Oh and by the way you can't take the baby in a cab because you need the baby in a car seat in the cab too. Or you can't take the baby out of the house without checking with a social worker first to make sure you've had enough sleep and strapped in the baby. Oh and there is a fine. And now your DH calls during the day to make sure you're watching the baby. Maybe throw in a parenting class too.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Random update: The principal took ds1 over to the accident site today, and showed him the repairs. They've redone it, so that the formerly flat platform comes to a triangular point in the centre. I don't think anyone else will be jumping on it now.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> Random update: The principal took ds1 over to the accident site today, and showed him the repairs. They've redone it, so that the formerly flat platform comes to a triangular point in the centre. I don't think anyone else will be jumping on it now.


Excellent!


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> Random update: The principal took ds1 over to the accident site today, and showed him the repairs. They've redone it, so that the formerly flat platform comes to a triangular point in the centre. I don't think anyone else will be jumping on it now.


Good! It seems like everyone managed to learn from this.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JessBB*
> 
> I'm sorry, I have followed this whole thread and I think you are being *WAY* too easy on your son. He did something really, really dumb and dangerous and so obviously against the rules. Period. How could a person possibly reasonably believe that doing indoor circus tricks anywhere but your own home or a gymnasium would be ok? Really? Really? And you seem way more focused on (a) your dislike and disdain of authority / bureaucracy & (b) how cool you think your son is, overall. I'm sorry, he's not responsible, no matter how sorry he might be (or seem to be) after the fact. He is 100% at fault and the rule he broke is obvious, necessary and totally reasonable. If this was a mall or something he could easily be arrested for destruction of property. He is almost an adult and this was a really bonehead move. He should take his lumps and move on.


Yeah, I don't think you read the whole thread... Or you'd know that 1) the young man in question was not only willing to accept punishment, but willing to pay for the damages out of his own pocket. Something many adults won't even agree to most of the time. 2) The principal, in the end, decided not to suspend him and 3) they aren't "circus tricks", this one bugs me just because it seems to indicate you have no clue what parkour even is.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I don't think he should be facing suspension. The school should be built sturdily enough that kids don't fall through walls even if they are doing stupid tricks. Kids and teenagers do the weirdest stuff on the strangest surfaces for no other reason than that they thought about doing it, the school administrators should know that. I would probably call the school to complain about my child getting hurt on an area that was unsafe but not blocked off. I would demand to know what they are doing to make the area safe for students and if there had been a medical cost associated with the wounds I would have demanded payment. I don't think your son should have to pay a dime for accidently breaking something that wasn't safe to begin with.


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## MissMaegie'sMama (Jul 27, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> This is how I feel about it, and I'd feel the same way if it weren't my son, as well. He can't be involved in the repair itself, as that will be handled by a contractor, but he will be doing extra school service, in lieu of that.


That sounds like the best possible solution for the situation. I'm glad level heads prevailed. I also saw your post about the triangular protrusion being built into the platform. Great idea!


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## Katwoman (Apr 15, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tigerchild*
> 
> To be fair, if you happened to get in an accident along the way, and your baby was ejected from the car and died, the social ramifications would be just as severe, not to mention what you might do to YOURSELF. Most people, even here, get extremely angry and vindictive against parents who through a "one time" careless mistake cause their children death or immense pain and suffering--yet IMO they are just as deserving of compassion (more so, in my opinion) than people who make a stupid mistake with minimal consequence because they were freakin' lucky they didn't get t-boned or rear ended at the intersection.
> 
> Quote:


I did admit it wasn't a good example. But he didn't hurt anyone else. Just himself. I am sorry that I used the example, should listen to that little voice more often. But I do think a lapse of judgement on the part of a teenager is treated much differently than a lapse of adult judgement - for equal/same type of offenses. Especially in a school setting.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katwoman*
> 
> I did admit it wasn't a good example. But he didn't hurt anyone else. Just himself. I am sorry that I used the example, should listen to that little voice more often. But I do think a lapse of judgement on the part of a teenager is treated much differently than a lapse of adult judgement - for equal/same type of offenses. Especially in a school setting.


Personally, I feel that *everyone* who must deal with devastating consequences if there is a perfect storm of events revolving around a stupid mistake should be extended compassion and grace; and people who are not "caught" by fate should be reminded of how lucky they are when their mistake has a less devastating consequence. I don't think adults should be exempt from that. Neither should teens.


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## Smokering (Sep 5, 2007)

Haven't read all the responses, but my initial reaction is "Saywhat? They're going to suspend him for that?". He wasn't being malicious, hurting anyone except himself, preventing other kids from learning, bullying... I guess if the school has a "no freerunning" rule he broke that, but that's a fairly minor infraction, surely? Sounds ridiculous to me.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Smokering*
> 
> Haven't read all the responses, but my initial reaction is "Saywhat? They're going to suspend him for that?". He wasn't being malicious, hurting anyone except himself, preventing other kids from learning, bullying... *I guess if the school has a "no freerunning" rule* he broke that, but that's a fairly minor infraction, surely? Sounds ridiculous to me.


Actually, they don't. I've seen the school Code of Conduct, and there's not really anything in there that this violates, imo...but it is fairly vaguely phrased, so (as seen by posts in this thread), the jump could be construed as a breach of general rules about appropriate behaviour, or whatever.

I wonder when we'll get the bill and see how much money he owes. I think it may be a nasty shock for him - just as well that he's been saving most of his income since he got his job!


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Gymnasts are a weird group. DS1 told his gymnastics coach (well, former coach, I guess - he's finished with competition) about the accident. It turns out that his coach has been up on that platform, too. He was a gymnast at the same school until about 3-4 years ago, and he went up there doing some wall climbing one day. He didn't go through, because he's smaller, lighter and was traveling up, not down. So, I guess the temptation to get onto that spot was even higher than ds1 had realized. It's probably a good thing they've changed the structure.


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## Just1More (Jun 19, 2008)

I just have to say that I was a "good" kid, and spent my time surrounded by other "good" kids, and we were all over our school. My brother's senior class stole the class mascot and tied it to the railroad tracks just for a picture. Stuff like that was expected. I can't believe the debate on here, but I'm happy things settled down a bit for your son. I'll bet it's in the yearbook, or in some other way remembered.


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