# Legal Beagle input needed...UPDATE POST 145



## Theoretica

Ok our neighborhood *really* needs some help from a legal perspective. I'm going to be as vague as possible in order to prevent the thread from derailing into an OT debate that has no relevance to the issue at hand. We really need some productive ideas here mamas, so please don't go there. PLEASE. Here's the gist of it:

There is a large flat sided truck (the size of a 26 foot U-Haul truck) with each side of the truck displaying extremely graphic images (the content of which is entirely irrelevant). *They drive through our neighborhood 20-30 times in an hour* and make a point of slowing down in front of the kids (we're talking a fairly 'off the beaten path' SMALL neighborhood of four streets forming a 1/2 mile circle), every few weeks during the warmer months. This has been going on for the past several years. The images are horrific and have caused documented trauma and emotional stress to many children in the neighborhood. We have asked the driver to stop. We have done a civil disobedience protest preventing the truck from entering our neighborhood. We have formed a neighborhood group to approach city council and insist something is done to stop it. We have aired our grievances with city council. We have gotten NOWHERE.

We found out this week that a FEDERAL JUDGE has instructed the police of our town that they are not allowed, under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, to issue a citation or in any other way ticket the driver of the truck for violating either the state picketing laws (which he violates) or the state's disturbing the peace law (which he violates). If, for any reason, the police think the driver should get a ticket, they are court ordered to have their lawyer talk to his lawyer and "come to an amicable agreement" instead of issuing a ticket.

That's like saying before they can give me a ticket for speeding, they've got to ask my lawyer permission first.

Now, again, I am not interested in DEBATING whether the intended message is legal or not (it is, he has the right to protest anything he wants, please take THAT discussion OFF MDC so I can get some real input here). What I am looking for is productive solutions to stopping this truck from displaying these images and (even better) from coming into our neighborhood.

We are meeting with the police this weekend to discuss what they can and can't do. They are also telling us not to do anything to stop the truck. They are court ordered by a federal judge not to touch this guy. They are telling us not to stage any civil disobedience to stop him.

Any other ideas?

We don't know what to do! Help!

ETA: UPDATED POST 145


----------



## HarperRose

My dh says to have a blanket party.

My friend says call Dateline.


----------



## madsommer

does anyone know who he is? anyone tried just having a non-confrontational conversation with this man to figure out why he is targeting your neighborhood? seems really odd to me, but doesn't seem like there really is much you can do at this moment. but good luck!


----------



## bobandjess99

OMG!! I think I knwo EXACTLY what you are talking about, because they have started doing this in my town!! I had to re-route every day last week to avoid my FOUR year old seeing these disgusting, graphic, completely-unfit-for-children's-viewing images on the way to and from school!!!!!

Ugh...I know I can't name call....can I say I HATE them? I hate them, I HATE them, I HATE THEM.
It should be so darn illegal to do what they are doing...protesting is one thing...but showing MY CHILD these digusting images infeinges on MY rights, gosh darn it.

I'm so sorry...I don't have any help, but I commiserate.
People like that make my atheist self hope,hope,hope there *IS* a hell so they can go there and rot.


----------



## Theoretica

Quote:


Originally Posted by *madsommer* 
does anyone know who he is? anyone tried just having a non-confrontational conversation with this man to figure out why he is targeting your neighborhood? seems really odd to me, but doesn't seem like there really is much you can do at this moment. but good luck!

Yes. We know who he is, his name, and where he lives. Well *I* know where he lives, because I'm good at figuring that stuff out








He doesn't do 'non confrontational'. He also has a permit for a concealed weapon. We know why he is targeting our neighborhood, although again that's irrelevant. He stated on the news station "I want those kids to see this stuff". So he knows what he's doing and he doesn't care. There IS no reasoning with this guy. He's well funded and has his own (free) legal team with a seemingly endless capacity for harassing us.

Ugh.


----------



## Theoretica

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Justthatgirl* 
My dh says to have a blanket party.

My friend says call Dateline.

What's a blanket party?

And how do you call Dateline? I mean...seriously....you just look 'em up or something?







LOL


----------



## Theoretica

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bobandjess99* 
OMG!! I think I knwo EXACTLY what you are talking about

ITA but do me a favor and don't get caught up in that on this thread. If you want to PM me I can tell you what we ARE doing and maybe that will help you? I don't know if we can start an activism thread or anything? But don't get into specific details here, mmmkay?

Thanks for the support....really appreciate it!


----------



## Theoretica

Does anyone know how you make a gated community?


----------



## angie7

That's a tough one...it really sucks that the law is not on your side. Is there anyway you guys can get away with blocking the street. Like "oops, Joe's car broke down right in the middle of the street and it's going to be many hours before a tow truck can show up?" Probably won't work but hey it's worth a shot. That must be awful, I couldn't imagine what is going on in this guys head...

About dateline, I'm sure you could find them online and find a phone number that can direct you to the correct people. Also 20/20, MSNBC, etc. people would love this stuff!

pm'ed you


----------



## Irishmommy

How on earth can a judge of any sort tell police to allow someone to break the law?


----------



## sophiekat

what state are you in?


----------



## bobandjess99

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Theoretica* 
ITA but do me a favor and don't get caught up in that on this thread. If you want to PM me I can tell you what we ARE doing and maybe that will help you? I don't know if we can start an activism thread or anything? But don't get into specific details here, mmmkay?

Thanks for the support....really appreciate it!









i very specifically didn't say a peep,since your OP clearly wanted THAT to stay out of it!









Well...here, it is because they are protesting that President Obama,who they find morally reprehensible apparently, is coming to speak at a local university graduation, and they have said they will stop after May 17th when he is gone and it is over with...so I'm just stewing mad,but waiting it out......


----------



## Mamafreya

Theoretica, How many times have you guys been in contact with the local media? Have you already exhausted all the local media outlets?

The only thing I can think of is to try to make such of big stink that the federal judge gets a lot of publicity. It would maybe put him in the hot-seat so that he would have to stand down, so to speak. I'm pretty sure that what he's doing isn't entirely legal, right?

Could your neighborhood find a lawyer who could help you all out?

What about contacting the ACLU since a federal judge in involved with this. Maybe they could point you in the right direction. Or maybe there is some sort of legal coalition you could contact?


----------



## Code Name Mama

Go talk to your city council - what do the laws say about protests in your community?

I wonder if you could contact a national organization (Planned Parenthood maybe?) to see if anyone has been successful in suing the owners of these trucks in other cities.

I'm not finding much online that would help you. What a sticky situation.


----------



## sapphire_chan

If this was taken to a federal court, what happened at the state level?

Is there any suspicion of undue influence on that man's part?


----------



## crl

I'm thinking that the ACLU tends to go for free speech in the extreme so not likely to be of much help here, although I could be wrong.

The only thing that comes to my mind is to sue the guy for intentional infliction of emotional distress. You'd want to talk to an attorney. I'm not sure what advocacy group would be good. . . .

(Oh and I think a blanket party is where you throw a blanket over the guy so he can't identify you and you beat him up.)


----------



## sapphire_chan

If there's some sort of vote involved on this, you've got a great platform to get people to vote against his side.


----------



## Code Name Mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crl* 
I'm thinking that the ACLU tends to go for free speech in the extreme so not likely to be of much help here, although I could be wrong.

The only thing that comes to my mind is to sue the guy for intentional infliction of emotional distress. You'd want to talk to an attorney. I'm not sure what advocacy group would be good. . . .

(Oh and I think a blanket party is where you throw a blanket over the guy so he can't identify you and you beat him up.)


For IIED though, you'd most likely have to show that the driver's actions resulted in some medically diagnosable disorder (depending on the state). Something tells me that's a long shot.


----------



## MCR

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bobandjess99* 
OMG!! I think I knwo EXACTLY what you are talking about, because they have started doing this in my town!! I had to re-route every day last week to avoid my FOUR year old seeing these disgusting, graphic, completely-unfit-for-children's-viewing images on the way to and from school!!!!!

Ugh...I know I can't name call....can I say I HATE them? I hate them, I HATE them, I HATE THEM.
It should be so darn illegal to do what they are doing...protesting is one thing...but showing MY CHILD these digusting images infeinges on MY rights, gosh darn it.

I'm so sorry...I don't have any help, but I commiserate.
People like that make my atheist self hope,hope,hope there *IS* a hell so they can go there and rot.

Yeah me too, the guy here parked himself at our main intersection in town and trolled the highschool. Luckily our local police didn't like what he was doing and got him to stop somehow. I still see his wife at the store all the time.
I hope you can get it to stop or become a gated community somehow.


----------



## sapphire_chan

Any chance that whatever it is includes visible genitalia or nipples? Something that violates a decency law so you don't have to get into whatever his message is--just that the image violates a specific law?


----------



## Treasuremapper

How awful!!!!

I think this is harrassment and should be covered on the national news. I would start with the Huffingtonpost, just because I love that news site, but any network other than Fox should be willing to cover it.


----------



## Mamafreya

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Theoretica* 
We found out this week that a FEDERAL JUDGE has instructed the police of our town that they are not allowed, under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, to issue a citation or in any other way ticket the driver of the truck for violating either *the state picketing laws (which he violates)* or *the state's disturbing the peace law (which he violates).* If, for any reason, the police think the driver should get a ticket, they are court ordered to have their lawyer talk to his lawyer and "come to an amicable agreement" instead of issuing a ticket.

We are meeting with the police this weekend to discuss what they can and can't do. They are also telling us not to do anything to stop the truck. They are court ordered by a federal judge not to touch this guy. *They are telling us not to stage any civil disobedience to stop him*.

Any other ideas?

We don't know what to do! Help!

This has to be lawsuit material (bolded parts above). I'm so confused how a judge can tell the police not to issue a ticket to someone who is violating the state laws? There has to be something that your neighborhood can do. I'm so sorry for you guys.

Okay, this next idea is pretty silly but I'll just toss it out there anyway. Don't laugh at me.







:

What if you all got together and put up giant visual blocks in your yards so at least you couldn't see this guy's truck from your yard? Like what they do during a movie shoot to block traffic and "looky-loos".


----------



## Ironica

Hmmm...

Definitely go with media, and do your best to expose this Federal judge. Also, see if you can have a psychologist evaluate the kids who have been exposed to these images... preferably one who is willing to invoice you but wait to get paid out of potential a court settlement. ;-)

Research the documentation that exists on MPAA and ESRB ratings. Discuss with the media what rating on each scale these images would garner if they were in a movie or a video game. Compare it to GTA or something. Make the point that your kids would not be allowed to buy a video game containing such images without your help. Gosh, why do these people _hate kids_ so much? Why would they want to abuse them with these images? How frightening is it to live in a world of pedophiles, bullies, and these guys? This could be a really fun story for the right media outlet (and once one covers it, it'll go everywhere).


----------



## tinuviel_k

Ugh! I am going through something similar in my town, too.







: Only there isn't anyone driving through the neighborhood; it is a big group of people that parks themselves downtown, covering about two whole city blocks on both side, holding up HUGE signs and posters with the most graphic, creepy, disgusting pictures. And they are humungous, at least 10-15 feet tall. A couple of times I have turned to go down that street to get to my bank, not realizing they are out there, and then I have to drive through all that with my five year old daughter who of course doesn't understand why there are pictures of...horrible yucky stuff.

I want to do something! This is so horrible, it makes me want to scream each time. I get that free speech is important but what they are showing is beyond rated R. It would be against the law to show children images like that in a movie or TV show. What can be done about it?


----------



## Theoretica

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angie7* 
Is there anyway you guys can get away with blocking the street. Like "oops, Joe's car broke down right in the middle of the street and it's going to be many hours before a tow truck can show up?"

About dateline, I'm sure you could find them online and find a phone number that can direct you to the correct people. Also 20/20, MSNBC, etc. people would love this stuff!

I already asked the police 'hypothetically' what would happen if folks randomly had car trouble, they said they'd have to tow our cars.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Irishmommy* 
How on earth can a judge of any sort tell police to allow someone to break the law?

That's what we're wondering. But it's there. It states, and I quote (minus identifying details): The Specific City Police and/or their agents will not issue citations, make arrests, or file criminal charges against The Driver Or Their Organization for violations of the unlawful picketing statute or disturbing the peace statute. The Specific City is also ordered that prior to issuing a citation against The Driver Or Their Group, the lawyers for The Specific City will meet with the lawyers for The Driver And Their Group and attempt to reach an amicable resolution concerning any alleged unlawful speech or conduct.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sophiekat* 
what state are you in?

I can't say on here, I'm sorry. If I specify the state it'll pretty much identify me to the internet since I'm directly involved in this case. Suffice it to say the state actually doesn't matter.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mamafreya* 
Could your neighborhood find a lawyer who could help you all out? What about contacting the ACLU since a federal judge in involved with this. Maybe they could point you in the right direction. Or maybe there is some sort of legal coalition you could contact?

We have gotten publicity, but it doesn't seem to matter much. Maybe we need more/bigger publicity? The ACLU has actually represented the truck driver. They are looking into the legality of the federal judge telling the city not to enforce state law,. They're getting back to me next week.

We've contacted litigation lawyers. We're having a hard time getting someone to take the case because of The Driver And His ORganization's litigation team that works for free.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MahnaMahna* 
Go talk to your city council - what do the laws say about protests in your community?

We spoke to the city council last week at their meeting. They didn't even mention that they had agreed not to prosecute this guy for breaking the law. The laws say he can't do what he's doing. The federal judge said the police are 'enjoined from enforcing state law' specifically pertaining to THIS situation and THIS driver/organization. I can't fathom how this is legal.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
If this was taken to a federal court, what happened at the state level? Is there any suspicion of undue influence on that man's part?

He lost at the state level, his legal team appealed to the federal court and it was settled between the parties. I'm getting the impression our county attorney just rolled over and handed this guy our rights.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *crl* 
I'm thinking that the ACLU tends to go for free speech in the extreme so not likely to be of much help here, although I could be wrong. The only thing that comes to my mind is to sue the guy for intentional infliction of emotional distress. You'd want to talk to an attorney. I'm not sure what advocacy group would be good

We're working on finding an attorney. The problem is HIS lawyers are free (for him). Whenever he's been arrested for this in the past (prior to the injunction preventing him from being arrested), he's had his bail waiting for him before he got to the station.

The ACLU has actually represented HIM before. They ARE looking into the legality of the federal judge's ruling, but it doesn't look too promising. I'll find out next week.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
If there's some sort of vote involved on this, you've got a great platform to get people to vote against his side.

There's no pending vote regarding the issue he's protesting.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MahnaMahna* 
For IIED though, you'd most likely have to show that the driver's actions resulted in some medically diagnosable disorder (depending on the state). Something tells me that's a long shot.

How would I get more information on state specific requirements for this? We've got several kids in the neighborhood now in therapy for the stress this is causing. Kids w/nightmares, kids w/panic attacks when they hear large motor trucks like the UPS guy...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
Any chance that whatever it is includes visible genitalia or nipples? Something that violates a decency law so you don't have to get into whatever his message is--just that the image violates a specific law?

Nope. We're trying to get the obscenity laws to include language that prohibits graphic/violent pictures, but nothing yet. They are VERY careful.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Treasuremapper* 
I think this is harrassment and should be covered on the national news. I would start with the Huffingtonpost, just because I love that news site, but any network other than Fox should be willing to cover it.

Hmmmm....I







HuffPo, would I just email them? or call? I'm not clear on how to contact national media?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mamafreya* 
This has to be lawsuit material (bolded parts above). I'm so confused how a judge can tell the police not to issue a ticket to someone who is violating the state laws? There has to be something that your neighborhood can do. I'm so sorry for you guys.

Okay, this next idea is pretty silly but I'll just toss it out there anyway. Don't laugh at me.







:

What if you all got together and put up giant visual blocks in your yards so at least you couldn't see this guy's truck from your yard? Like what they do during a movie shoot to block traffic and "looky-loos".

I actually thought of this, we'd have to have it donated though. And we wouldn't want them up all the time. And he drives through for an hour at a time, about twice a month. I don't know that we'd be able to do anything like that in a timely enough manner to make a difference?

Thanks for the ideas and support....we have a meeting tomorrow with the police, keep the brainstorms going









P.S. And thank you SO MUCH for keeping this on topic and solution oriented!!!


----------



## gurumama

If he's part of what the Southern Poverty Law Center categorizes as an "extremist group," then SPLC might be a place to turn to for help: http://www.splcenter.org/index.jsp

Does he do this more on weekends? Could your neighborhood get town permits for street fairs over and over and over (different people applying for rotating days) to get the street closed off to traffic?


----------



## Theoretica

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ironica* 
Hmmm...

Definitely go with media, and do your best to expose this Federal judge. Also, see if you can have a psychologist evaluate the kids who have been exposed to these images... preferably one who is willing to invoice you but wait to get paid out of potential a court settlement. ;-)

Research the documentation that exists on MPAA and ESRB ratings. Discuss with the media what rating on each scale these images would garner if they were in a movie or a video game. Compare it to GTA or something. Make the point that your kids would not be allowed to buy a video game containing such images without your help. Gosh, why do these people _hate kids_ so much? Why would they want to abuse them with these images? How frightening is it to live in a world of pedophiles, bullies, and these guys? This could be a really fun story for the right media outlet (and once one covers it, it'll go everywhere).

I like both of these and will bring them up at the meeting...thanks!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tinuviel_k* 
Ugh! I am going through something similar in my town, too.







: Only there isn't anyone driving through the neighborhood; it is a big group of people that parks themselves downtown, covering about two whole city blocks on both side, holding up HUGE signs and posters with the most graphic, creepy, disgusting pictures. And they are humungous, at least 10-15 feet tall. A couple of times I have turned to go down that street to get to my bank, not realizing they are out there, and then I have to drive through all that with my five year old daughter who of course doesn't understand why there are pictures of...horrible yucky stuff.

I want to do something! This is so horrible, it makes me want to scream each time. I get that free speech is important but what they are showing is beyond rated R. It would be against the law to show children images like that in a movie or TV show. What can be done about it?

They do THAT here too, down at a 'major intersection'. There's NOTHING that can be done about that because it's protesting in a public venue and completely covered under free speech. Sucks. All we can do is try to get the residential harassment to stop.


----------



## Theoretica

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gurumama* 
If he's part of what the Southern Poverty Law Center categorizes as an "extremist group," then SPLC might be a place to turn to for help: http://www.splcenter.org/index.jsp

Does he do this more on weekends? Could your neighborhood get town permits for street fairs over and over and over (different people applying for rotating days) to get the street closed off to traffic?

I checked, his group isn't on it. Great idea though, I hadn't thought of that!

He picks about two days a month to show up. Days with perfect weather when everyone is outside but usually during the week right when kids are getting home from school.


----------



## TwinsTwicePlusTwo

Well, I can think of many different ways you could discourage him from cruising your neighborhood, but I think I better not post them (I can be truly devious when I want to be). If that happened in my neighborhood it probably would end in a blanket party!

Take it to the press. Go online and get the contact info for every major national news outlet in the country. Document when the truck passes, how many times it passes, and take pictures of it to share with the media to show them what you're talking about.

Your ultimate goal needs to be to find a lawyer with the resources and nerve to take this issue all the way to the supreme court, if need be. The federal judge's ruling was illegal and unconstitutional. The laws apply to EVERYONE, special interest groups are not excluded. Going to the press will probably bring a lawyer out of the woodwork.

I can't imagine the national media not LOVING this story, particularly if it's as sensational and politically-charged as it sounds!


----------



## onelilguysmommy

being that i can figure out what you mean, i get his point..

is there any way yall could umm...shorten the width of your road where his truck couldnt get through but yalls could? i mean no one who doesnt live there needs to be randomly driving through, right?

im trying to figure out what the heck hi obsession with your place is though. wouldnt it be more helpful and piss off more people to get out where more people could see?


----------



## Marylizah

OP, I can only imagine how angry I would be.

Some ideas:

Start a letter writing campaign. Get the whole neighborhood involved. Write to your mayor, congressman, senator, and the White House. One letter, cc'ed to everyone on your list.

If you know the name and address of the person doing this, start a letter-writing campaign to him. Make sure to write a letter that could in no way be considered threatening, but make it clear how "disappointed" and "saddened" you are that someone would target small children and subject them to such violence and gore. The point is to overwhelm him with mail, to be an annoyance to him-- NOT to threaten him.

Contact the media. All the shows have email addresses-- check the "contact us" section of their websites, they have a place where you can submit story ideas . Contact NPR. Contact 20/20, Dateline, Anderson Cooper 360, Rachel Maddow, HuffPo, Keith Olbermann, plus all the anchors at the big 3.

Set up a warning system-- people living near the streets that access your neighborhood take turns each week watching out for this guy. Invest in airhorns so that the volunteers can blast a pre-arranged code so that people who are out can get inside. Also set up calling trees so that people can be notified by cell phone, in case they are driving home.

Be as organized as you can. It's sickening that you have to live with a bully like this and the police won't do anything about it.


----------



## tinyblackdot

i dont know if this will be of any help at all, BUT i know here there are resident streets only, they have signs posted that say " no through traffic, residents only" could you get something like that posted in your neighborhood? Then if yall have that he wouldn't be allowed to drive through?


----------



## Treasuremapper

I did a bit more research, and you are going to have to balance contacting the news media very carefully. IF this is what I think it is, then you may be encouraging such irresponsible protests in the future. This group desperately wants national coverage for their story and may even be trying to annoy in the hopes of getting coverage. I checked through some of their sites and boards, and they are desperate for attention, even negative attention. I would handle with care.

But-- just in case you decide to do it --

Here is how to contact a news organization. Get their phone number and tell them you have a news tip. If you are calling a local newspaper, ask for the city desk or night desk or night editor. Explain that you have a tip. For this story, I would go with a television news broadcast (NOT Fox, of course) or the Washington Post or New York Times.

News organizations usually want to cover something happening, ie, citizens are protesting these buses at such and such a time, or neighbors oppose advertisements as inappropriate for children, neighbors fear that trucks will run over their children, or whatever your angle is. Be ready with information, and be ready to be interviewed. You can also offer anonymous or off the record tips.

Good luck! You may want to do a quick search first to see if this has already been covered.


----------



## Theoretica

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Treasuremapper* 
I did a bit more research, and you are going to have to balance contacting the news media very carefully. IF this is what I think it is, then you may be encouraging such irresponsible protests in the future. This group desperately wants national coverage for their story and may even be trying to annoy in the hopes of getting coverage. I checked through some of their sites and boards, and they are desperate for attention, even negative attention. I would handle with care.

But-- just in case you decide to do it --

Here is how to contact a news organization. Get their phone number and tell them you have a news tip. If you are calling a local newspaper, ask for the city desk or night desk or night editor. Explain that you have a tip. For this story, I would go with a television news broadcast (NOT Fox, of course) or the Washington Post or New York Times.

News organizations usually want to cover something happening, ie, citizens are protesting these buses at such and such a time, or pro life neighbors oppose pro life advertisements as inappropriate for children, neighbors fear that prolife trucks will run over their children, or whatever your angle is. Be ready with information, and be ready to be interviewed. You can also offer anonymous or off the record tips.

Good luck! You may want to do a quick search first to see if this has already been covered.

Can you PM me the links to these boards you've found? It might help if they are discussing our specific area. The news info is very helpful, and the problem is we *know* they want attention, we've tried ignoring him for the past several years. It's just getting to be too much and too constant, and we've got to put a stop to it. We've even asked him to put non-graphic images that convey his point and still drive around, he refused. So now what? Give them the media attention they want so they get free coverage? Or ignore them and they get to terrorize our kids? Argh.







:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tinyblackdot* 
i dont know if this will be of any help at all, BUT i know here there are resident streets only, they have signs posted that say " no through traffic, residents only" could you get something like that posted in your neighborhood? Then if yall have that he wouldn't be allowed to drive through?

Very good idea, I'll look into that. Although, I think he is 'protected' pretty extensively right now w/that recent judicial order and his claim each and every time he's stopped is his first amendment rights.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marylizah* 
Start a letter writing campaign. Get the whole neighborhood involved. Write to your mayor, congressman, senator, and the White House. One letter, cc'ed to everyone on your list.

If you know the name and address of the person doing this, start a letter-writing campaign to him. Make sure to write a letter that could in no way be considered threatening, but make it clear how "disappointed" and "saddened" you are that someone would target small children and subject them to such violence and gore. The point is to overwhelm him with mail, to be an annoyance to him-- NOT to threaten him.

Contact the media. All the shows have email addresses-- check the "contact us" section of their websites, they have a place where you can submit story ideas . Contact NPR. Contact 20/20, Dateline, Anderson Cooper 360, Rachel Maddow, HuffPo, Keith Olbermann, plus all the anchors at the big 3.

Set up a warning system-- people living near the streets that access your neighborhood take turns each week watching out for this guy. Invest in airhorns so that the volunteers can blast a pre-arranged code so that people who are out can get inside. Also set up calling trees so that people can be notified by cell phone, in case they are driving home.

Be as organized as you can. It's sickening that you have to live with a bully like this and the police won't do anything about it.

The warning system/phone tree is great...thank you! We could write him letters until our fingers fall off, he doesn't care. The police issue is so concerning....

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwinsTwicePlusTwo* 
I can't imagine the national media not LOVING this story, particularly if it's as sensational and politically-charged as it sounds!

Yeahhhh...the trick is balancing media coverage with getting OUR message out and not his...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *onelilguysmommy* 
is there any way yall could umm...shorten the width of your road where his truck couldnt get through but yalls could? i mean no one who doesnt live there needs to be randomly driving through, right?

The thing is, it's the size of a large moving truck. If we did anything to impede that from coming through it would create larger problems


----------



## Treasuremapper

Theoretica, please read all your PMs from me.


----------



## HarperRose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Theoretica* 
What's a blanket party?

Kidnap the offender, wrap him in a blanket, do not speak or make any sound so he will never know who it is, take him out somewhere, and beat him up.

It was a facetious comment, obviously.

Quote:

And how do you call Dateline? I mean...seriously....you just look 'em up or something?







LOL
They probably have a contact option somewhere on their website.


----------



## HarperRose

I'm really curious about the material ppl are being exposed to. If someone wouldn't mind PM'ing me, I'd sure appreciate it.









ETA: Nevermind. I googled and think I found the info.

I would be HORRIFIED if my kids saw anything of that nature. I'd be horrified if I saw it myself.

Material aside, I don't need someone to expose MY FAMILY to their agenda. Not like that.


----------



## ramama

A lot of more-experienced and more intelligent people than me have already posted here, but I have issue with this sort of thing. (I kick myself at times like this, that I changed study and no longer have access to great and free lawyers!)

What would happen to a person who took my minor child to a graphically violent movie (say, Saw II) without my permission? What would happen to a person who showed my children pornographic images? Is there something there?

This might be a long-shot, but trying to think outside the box...Say your neighbor had a huge spotlight on their property and its light glared into your house all night long. That is considered trespassing, regardless of whether the offender, or the offending item, were actually on your property or not, because it interferes with the enjoyment of your home. Could these pictures be in the same category (especially if you were able to get pictures of every time they drove through, time-stamped and all that)? Just trying to look at it from a different angle.

This is also a long-shot. Is it possible to have a "conversation", innocent in your part, but intended to incite the man, and then get a restraining order on him? Granted, it would be temporary, but he wouldn't be able to come down your street for a little while, at least. Then maybe another neighbor could do it, and another, and take turns so he can, essentially, never come down your street? I know, I'm nuts...


----------



## flminivanmama

I think you should all lay/sit down on the street in front of his truck.

let them arrest you... then you can take it as high as he has (to a federal judge)

JMO


----------



## colobus237

I'm inclined to say leave it alone and ignore it. Attention and outrage is what such an activist wants.


----------



## mysticmomma

Do you have a HOA?


----------



## philomom

Write President Obama. He has kids. Maybe if the whole neighborhood wrote him.


----------



## Code Name Mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Theoretica* 
I already asked the police 'hypothetically' what would happen if folks randomly had car trouble, they said they'd have to tow our cars.

That's what we're wondering. But it's there. It states, and I quote (minus identifying details): The Specific City Police and/or their agents will not issue citations, make arrests, or file criminal charges against The Driver Or Their Organization for violations of the unlawful picketing statute or disturbing the peace statute. The Specific City is also ordered that prior to issuing a citation against The Driver Or Their Group, the lawyers for The Specific City will meet with the lawyers for The Driver And Their Group and attempt to reach an amicable resolution concerning any alleged unlawful speech or conduct.

I can't say on here, I'm sorry. If I specify the state it'll pretty much identify me to the internet since I'm directly involved in this case. Suffice it to say the state actually doesn't matter.

We have gotten publicity, but it doesn't seem to matter much. Maybe we need more/bigger publicity? The ACLU has actually represented the truck driver. They are looking into the legality of the federal judge telling the city not to enforce state law,. They're getting back to me next week.

We've contacted litigation lawyers. We're having a hard time getting someone to take the case because of The Driver And His ORganization's litigation team that works for free.

We spoke to the city council last week at their meeting. They didn't even mention that they had agreed not to prosecute this guy for breaking the law. The laws say he can't do what he's doing. The federal judge said the police are 'enjoined from enforcing state law' specifically pertaining to THIS situation and THIS driver/organization. I can't fathom how this is legal.

He lost at the state level, his legal team appealed to the federal court and it was settled between the parties. I'm getting the impression our county attorney just rolled over and handed this guy our rights.









We're working on finding an attorney. The problem is HIS lawyers are free (for him). Whenever he's been arrested for this in the past (prior to the injunction preventing him from being arrested), he's had his bail waiting for him before he got to the station.

The ACLU has actually represented HIM before. They ARE looking into the legality of the federal judge's ruling, but it doesn't look too promising. I'll find out next week.

There's no pending vote regarding the issue he's protesting.

How would I get more information on state specific requirements for this? We've got several kids in the neighborhood now in therapy for the stress this is causing. Kids w/nightmares, kids w/panic attacks when they hear large motor trucks like the UPS guy...

Nope. We're trying to get the obscenity laws to include language that prohibits graphic/violent pictures, but nothing yet. They are VERY careful.

Hmmmm....I







HuffPo, would I just email them? or call? I'm not clear on how to contact national media?

I actually thought of this, we'd have to have it donated though. And we wouldn't want them up all the time. And he drives through for an hour at a time, about twice a month. I don't know that we'd be able to do anything like that in a timely enough manner to make a difference?

Thanks for the ideas and support....we have a meeting tomorrow with the police, keep the brainstorms going









P.S. And thank you SO MUCH for keeping this on topic and solution oriented!!!


What state are you in? I'll see if I can find the elements for you. Personally, I think it's time to go talk to a lawyer. A good lawyer should be able to read through the judge's order and figure out what legal grounds he has for telling the police not to interfere.

I haven't read all the updates, but let me just say one other thing (not legal though): everyone who is saying to get the media (esp. the nat'l media) involved - isn't that what these people want? They WANT the media exposure. They want the big brouhahas made over their graphic pictures. Heck, that's why they drive around with the crap all over their trucks in the first place. When I was trying to find ideas online (in response to the OP), I read a quote from someone who supports these trucks - it went something like, "yeah, Planned Parenthood might be getting increased donations as a protest to our trucks, but we are getting even more attention and support. So the collateral benefits to PP don't really bother us." (obviously not a direct quote)

KWIM?


----------



## philomom

OMGosh. I just googled a tad and found out where this is happening and the man responsible. I would be livid. To inflict horror on innocent minds that way... is beyond disgusting.














:


----------



## HarperRose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *philomom* 
OMGosh. I just googled a tad and found out where this is happening and the man responsible. I would be livid. To inflict horror on innocent minds that way... is beyond disgusting.














:









You know what's sick? I googled, too, and it's happening in a few states.

I would come unglued if someone did that to my kids. You can't UNsee things!


----------



## Ironica

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tinuviel_k* 
I get that free speech is important but what they are showing is beyond rated R. It would be against the law to show children images like that in a movie or TV show.

No, actually, it wouldn't.

The movie ratings system (and the video game ratings system) is an entirely voluntary industry-sponsored thing. The MPAA sets the ratings scale, rates the movies, and all their members (the movie studios) tell the theaters they better abide by it if they want to get first-run movies released to them. Video game makers similarly threaten to withhold distribution from retailers who don't support the ESRB system. FCC regulations and fines prevent the broadcast of such images before bedtime.

Unfortunately, the only laws about display of graphic images relate to sexual images, not violent/gory ones (at least, that is my understanding; IANAL and I could be wrong). That's why I think that suing for the emotional harm inflicted on the children (and it sounds like there's already documentation of that, and expenses related to it) and going to the media are the best options available (as well as organizing the neighborhood to alert each other, and that would be a good media angle too).


----------



## Porcelain Interior

Have you contacted other related organizations that think this is going too far?

If I'm guessing correctly? Because I think a lot of people within this particular branch/viewpoint wouldn't agree with this particular practice or way of getting a "point or message" across.

I just don't understand why there aren't thousands of (related organizations) freaking on this guy and what he's doing.


----------



## mysticmomma

maybe it will stop after commencement?


----------



## Ironica

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MahnaMahna* 
When I was trying to find ideas online (in response to the OP), I read a quote from someone who supports these trucks - it went something like, "yeah, Planned Parenthood might be getting increased donations as a protest to our trucks, but we are getting even more attention and support. So the collateral benefits to PP don't really bother us." (obviously not a direct quote)

I think that, if the media hit the angle that these people are _hurting children_ to make their point, it will erode an awful lot of their ability to get support. It will completely break them from the more "mainstream" elements of the same cause, and will give the cause in general a negative hit. They may not agree... they may like being famous too much to care what damage they do to national opinion on the matter. But at some point, if they do enough damage to the cause overall, SOMEONE on "their side" will tell them to cut it out.


----------



## colobus237

It just seems to me that the more stink you raise about this, the more motivated the organization will be to continue targeting your neighborhood to get more press and legal/media martyrdom.

If a court found that police were using traffic laws or picketing laws unconstitutionally to suppress the particular content of this group's speech, that would be why they might have issued an order that no unapproved citations should be issued.

I get that this is gross and I would be offended if it drove around my neighborhood, too. But I think the law is probably on the truck's side if you are in the US, unless he is making loud noises or violating traffic laws.


----------



## Code Name Mama

This 9th Circuit opinion may be of interest to you. A discussion of First Amendment rights starts at page 7994 (IIED was not at issue).


----------



## doctormom

I would be furious if someone deliberately exposed my children to such graphic images.







There's freedom of political speech, and then there's infringing upon the innocence of children.

The website for the organization responsible includes links to past legal action, and one of their court filings states that they have _specifically targeted middle and high school students_ with their trucks. There was a lawsuit between the organization and a major metropolitan area's police department & school district (trucks driving past the schools). The US Supreme Court declined to review that specific case just a few months ago, but it made its way through several levels of the court system at the state and federal level. I agree with the PP who said that this organization is desperate for publicity, and that the more media attention you create for them locally, the happier they will be.

I'm sorry you aren't getting more support. I think the issue involved is so politically charged that your community law enforcement is afraid to get involved, especially because the organization is quick to file lawsuits. I hope they will move on quickly from your neighborhood, and that the children involved will receive the support they need to process any trauma they experienced from viewing the extremely graphic photos.


----------



## Barbamama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Theoretica* 
*They drive through our neighborhood 20-30 times in an hour* and make a point of slowing down in front of the kids (we're talking a fairly 'off the beaten path' SMALL neighborhood of four streets forming a 1/2 mile circle), every few weeks during the warmer months. This has been going on for the past several years. The images are horrific and have caused documented trauma and emotional stress to many children in the neighborhood.

OMG that's awful!

Not giving legal advice here (ahem) but there's a legal doctrine of nuisance that may be applicable. It's defined in different ways from state to state, so you'll need to check with a lawyer, but the general gist of it is that you're entitled to the "peaceful enjoyment" of your property, and you can sue to bring a stop to activities that interfere with that enjoyment.

One wrinkle: in the classic examples they give us in law school, the doctrine is applied as between neighboring property owners -- e.g., neighbor A has a kennel that he never cleans, causing foul odors to drift onto neigbor B's property -- I don't recall ever seeing nuisance law applied to something that's not real property-based, like the trucks you're describing here. But since they're targeting your neighborhood, one could say that they really are a "fixture" in your community.

Other random thoughts:

Since they're targeting and injuring children, call CPS (?!?)

Are the trucks in compliance with the vehicle code? Your city's restrictions on advertising/billboards? As I read the consent decree, the cops are only enjoined from ticketing certain individuals. Can you be sure that it's always one of those individuals who's driving the truck?

HTH


----------



## Code Name Mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ironica* 
I think that, if the media hit the angle that these people are _hurting children_ to make their point, it will erode an awful lot of their ability to get support. It will completely break them from the more "mainstream" elements of the same cause, and will give the cause in general a negative hit. They may not agree... they may like being famous too much to care what damage they do to national opinion on the matter. But at some point, if they do enough damage to the cause overall, SOMEONE on "their side" will tell them to cut it out.


It seems they've thought of a response to this argument









I guess the problem with an IIED suit is that while it may help the OP's troubles, it does nothing to stop the trucks from cruising down any other street (until of course, the next plaintiff proves severe emotional distress). Very frustrating.


----------



## fek&fuzz

maybe look into getting an ordinance against "cruising" put in place. Basically outlawing driving through neighborhoods like that with no purpose.

http://www.popcenter.org/problems/cruising/3


----------



## Treasuremapper

I agree about giving them media exposure. I googled the organization and that is what they want. They obviously UAUAUA. I think that sort of thing is appropriate for adults, but if the images are anything like the video on their website, I would be totally freaked.

So -- now that I realize what they are and what their goals are, I agree, if you contact the national media it will only encourage them to engage in such campaigns in the future.


----------



## tanyam926

I can see the pps points about media attention just furthering their cause, but wouldn't it also put pressure on politicians to help and/or connect them w/ a good lawyer to fight it in court maybe for free (for their own publicity)?

It seems like the only other option is to lay down and continue taking it. They aren't going to stop so I would probably do whatever it took to try and stop them.


----------



## Teensy

I was going to suggest a cruising ordinance also. Would your town council be willing to pass such an ordinance? If so, that could at least minimize the number of times the truck could be driven down your street.

I would find several examples of such town ordinances (simply google "cruising prohibited" to find various laws), then contact each town council memember and ask them if they would propose and vote for such an ordinance.

Good luck.


----------



## Mamafreya

I think the cruising thing is a good idea but I don't know if any ordinances will work though because of the court order. Who would enforce it?? The police can't do anything to him so I don't think it would be a deterrent.

Theoretica, I hope that your meeting is productive today. Let us know how it goes.


----------



## Ironica

West Hollywood, California has cruising ordinances on Sunset Boulevard and Santa Monica Boulevard. Also, the city government is EXTREMELY progressive, and would probably be happy to talk to someone, provide documentation of the process, etc.

I was also thinking about ordinances that municipalities have attempted to pass to specifically prohibit driving around for the sake of advertising. The rationale is that it's an increase in traffic and pollution without serving any transportation purpose. I'm not sure if any have been successfully passed and enforced yet.

Also, I haven't read the consent decree, but if it's specifically with the local police department, you might want to look into county or state-level law enforcement. I know that here, while the County sheriffs generally respect that the LAPD has jurisdiction within the City of Los Angeles and don't want to step on their toes, they do *legally* have the right to enforce the law within the city. They also are contracted to provide law enforcement to some incorporated cities that don't operate their own police department, so they do enforce regulations that aren't strictly County-based. Similarly, the Highway Patrol is a state law enforcement entity, but definitely operates within cities and counties. In that way, you might be able to get the law involved on your side.

(I'm actually not going to follow any links provided... because I'm honestly afraid to. I don't want to see any of this, or hear any of it. I'm glad they haven't decided to target our neighborhood. I hope they never do.)


----------



## Mamafreya

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ironica* 
(I'm actually not going to follow any links provided... because I'm honestly afraid to. I don't want to see any of this, or hear any of it. I'm glad they haven't decided to target our neighborhood. I hope they never do.)

Yeah, I'm with you there. I clicked on something last night and I really wish that I hadn't.


----------



## jocelyndale

Join the parade.







Adults and older teens with large poles holding up loooong, tall swaths of sheet/tarp. You get a line-up on either side of the truck and march along. If he drives that slowly, it would be easy to keep up.

No need to even call the media and give him attention.

You could put in LOTS of speedbumps. Annoying for you, sure, but might be a deterrent. Except he seems to be fueled by p!ss and vinegar. Always hard to deal with that kind of fuel--it just doesn't run out.

I'd be tempted to have the guy get caught in the middle of a paintball fight, but that would probably violate vandalism/destruction of personal property statues.


----------



## CameronsMama

Ugh. I'm sorry your community and children are being put through this. I know the trucks you're talking about.

Honestly, the fastest way to get him to stop driving through yourneighbirhoid might be to let him do it. He does it for the attention, he does it to upset people who don't agree with him, and he does it hoping that seeing the "ugly truth" will change minds and that once the shock factor wears off people will "see the light". Media coverage would be a bonus to them because they want any publicity they can. They dont care if people hate them for what they are doing, they just want people to know that they're out there doing it. Rumor has it that some neighborhoods have had success by just ignoring, I've heard one story (and it's just a story I don't know if there's any truth to it though) that the people in the neighborhood started waving hi and making cookies for the driver and he was convinced that that neighborhood had seen the light and he never came back.


----------



## MusicianDad

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ironica* 
I think that, if the media hit the angle that these people are _hurting children_ to make their point, it will erode an awful lot of their ability to get support. It will completely break them from the more "mainstream" elements of the same cause, and will give the cause in general a negative hit. They may not agree... they may like being famous too much to care what damage they do to national opinion on the matter. But at some point, if they do enough damage to the cause overall, SOMEONE on "their side" will tell them to cut it out.

When contacting the media, contact media that favours your side. That's a big point. No media outlet is entirely unbiased (for isntance, we all know Fox tends to favour conservatives). Evetually it will start airing on the other side, but the first and main points made would have been the negative impact on the children, and those living there. The supporters will have to defend the actions in the media before they can say what a good job this guy is doing. It does need to be a well planned manouver, the media is a double edged sword.

I can't help on the legal front however, in Canada the guy would likely not be allowed to do this and no court would say he is because of the potential for harm and for the harm it has already caused.


----------



## Treasuremapper

It seems to me that this should at least fall into old fashioned common law nuisance laws. You could probably find a lawyer to represent you by contacting certain organizations. It's definitely a nuisance.

Here is the wikipedia on common law nuisance, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuisance

"Under the common law, persons in possession of real property (either land owners or tenants) are entitled to the quiet enjoyment of their lands. If a neighbour interferes with that quiet enjoyment, either by creating smells, sounds, pollution or any other hazard that extends past the boundaries of the property, the affected party may make a claim in nuisance."

Go to the link for the full definition.

Sure, there is freedom of speech, but that freedom is not unlimited. The classic example is that people do not have the right to yell FIRE in a crowded movie theatre.


----------



## Theoretica

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flminivanmama* 
I think you should all lay/sit down on the street in front of his truck.

let them arrest you... then you can take it as high as he has (to a federal judge)

JMO

Thanks, we've done that







They will prosecute US for violating picket laws, but not the driver.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ccohenou* 
I'm inclined to say leave it alone and ignore it. Attention and outrage is what such an activist wants.

We've ignored it for THREE YEARS. It hasn't stopped. It's actually gotten worse.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mysticmomma* 
Do you have a HOA?

How would we find out about establishing one of those? And how would it stop this guy?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *philomom* 
OMGosh. I just googled a tad and found out where this is happening and the man responsible. I would be livid. To inflict horror on innocent minds that way... is beyond disgusting.














:









Thanks for the support, it's actually happening around the country in several areas. The reason I'm being so vague is to avoid any more detailed identification.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Porcelain Interior* 
Have you contacted other related organizations that think this is going too far? If I'm guessing correctly? Because I think a lot of people within this particular branch/viewpoint wouldn't agree with this particular practice or way of getting a "point or message" across.

I just don't understand why there aren't thousands of (related organizations) freaking on this guy and what he's doing.

Because they support him and see it as a necessary evil. There are two people in our area that have lectured the rest of the neighborhood to take our kids inside and let him do what he wants to do.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Barbamama* 
Not giving legal advice here (ahem) but there's a legal doctrine of nuisance that may be applicable. It's defined in different ways from state to state, so you'll need to check with a lawyer, but the general gist of it is that you're entitled to the "peaceful enjoyment" of your property, and you can sue to bring a stop to activities that interfere with that enjoyment.

One wrinkle: in the classic examples they give us in law school, the doctrine is applied as between neighboring property owners -- e.g., neighbor A has a kennel that he never cleans, causing foul odors to drift onto neigbor B's property -- I don't recall ever seeing nuisance law applied to something that's not real property-based, like the trucks you're describing here. But since they're targeting your neighborhood, one could say that they really are a "fixture" in your community.

Other random thoughts:

Since they're targeting and injuring children, call CPS (?!?)

Are the trucks in compliance with the vehicle code? Your city's restrictions on advertising/billboards? As I read the consent decree, the cops are only enjoined from ticketing certain individuals. Can you be sure that it's always one of those individuals who's driving the truck?

HTH

I'll check into the nuisance laws? Also re: CPS the kids aren't under this guy's care or protection so it doesn't apply. We've tried









Quote:


Originally Posted by *CameronsMama* 
Honestly, the fastest way to get him to stop driving through yourneighbirhoid might be to let him do it. He does it for the attention, he does it to upset people who don't agree with him, and he does it hoping that seeing the "ugly truth" will change minds and that once the shock factor wears off people will "see the light". Media coverage would be a bonus to them because they want any publicity they can. They dont care if people hate them for what they are doing, they just want people to know that they're out there doing it. Rumor has it that some neighborhoods have had success by just ignoring, I've heard one story (and it's just a story I don't know if there's any truth to it though) that the people in the neighborhood started waving hi and making cookies for the driver and he was convinced that that neighborhood had seen the light and he never came back.

We *have* ignored it, for YEARS. There is a reason he targets our neighborhood persistently that I can't discuss here and really doesn't matter.


----------



## Theoretica

Update:

The meeting was interesting and helped us to get more organized. The police said that they can't do anything to stop the truck and that we can't do anything to stop the truck other than get the laws changed. I pointed out there IS a law that the driver is violating but they just aren't enforcing it, and the police said they can't comment on that.









So, we formed a steering committee (that I was nominated for














for the neighborhood and are moving forward to work on litigation options and legal changes. We need a good lawyer, if anyone knows one










We did adopted the air horn idea, and I'm putting together all the awesome ideas on this thread to share at the next committee meeting. Keep the ideas coming if you have any, and feel free to PM me if you have ideas that involve more specific topic discussion that needs to be avoided on this thread.

Thanks everyone for keeping this solution oriented and not derailing onto off topic territory that will get the thread pulled. I can't thank you guys enough









Still







:


----------



## bobandjess99

I just want to say I am trying to organize a "counter-protest" here..the idea is, we make big huge signs like the ones "they" have, but put pictures of traumatized kids on them, like pics of 4-6 year olds with horrified and crying expressions and statements like "Protect ALL our babies" "trauma hurts kids" "4 year old traumatized child", etc and we're going to go out there and picket right along side them!!!!! We are trying to get some media coverage to be guaranteed to be there first......is that totally insane?


----------



## MusicianDad

Not totally insane. It might show (at least some of) these people that what they are doing is doing more harm then good.


----------



## Freud

I think it would be a great idea to develop at HOA and then the HOA can make it a gated community with gates and/or guards at each entrance (if this is plausible, given the layout of the community). Trespassers are arrested. I think all members of the community would have to agree to the development of an HOA though. Your community might want to consult a lawyer to help get you started and draft the necessary documents.


----------



## Lolagirl

I'm glad to hear the meeting with the police went well. Have you considered contacting the office of the president of this institution of higher learning to insist that they help you out on your mission? If this is where and what I think it is, you may be able to persuade them by pointing out how they brought this nuisance on the neighborhood and that they owe you whatever legal or monetary help you need to shut down this UAV.

You definitely have my sympathies, I would be absolutely outraged if this was going on in my town.


----------



## Code Name Mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
I can't help on the legal front however, in Canada the guy would likely not be allowed to do this and no court would say he is because of the potential for harm and for the harm it has already caused.


Unfortunately, I came across some articles about this happening in Calgary.


----------



## Code Name Mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lolagirl* 
Have you considered contacting the office of the president of this institution of higher learning to insist that they help you out on your mission?

This might be a good idea - I'd bet you have a law school very close to you. Most law schools have free/reduced cost law clinics (students "take" the cases with professor supervision). The professors might jump at the chance to get involved in this case!


----------



## Pinoikoi

I don't know. I guess I would build some big signs, post them on my vehicle and cruise his neighborhood with my views on it. See how he likes it. See what he does about it.

This isn't a problem where I live though, "signage" here is very limited by law.


----------



## Cheshire

My first thought was to figure out how to legally take private ownership of your streets so you can control who comes onto the property. This might be a huge hassle and interfere with police and fire responders coming into the neighborhood. Something to look into. If you could gate off the community that would be great and he can't trespass on private property.

Next, I thought have a ton of yard signs printed up saying things like:

"Quit traumatizing my children
-God"

"Jesus says to love your neighbors, not send their kids into therapy"

"We pray for you daily"

"May God change your heart to stop harassing our neighborhood"

"United we stand - spend all the gas money you want"

"You're wasting your time, haven't you figured that out yet?"

This sucks and I hope you find the perfect solution quickly. Best of luck.


----------



## Theoretica

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bobandjess99* 
I just want to say I am trying to organize a "counter-protest" here..the idea is, we make big huge signs like the ones "they" have, but put pictures of traumatized kids on them, like pics of 4-6 year olds with horrified and crying expressions and statements like "Protect ALL our babies" "trauma hurts kids" "4 year old traumatized child", etc and we're going to go out there and picket right along side them!!!!! We are trying to get some media coverage to be guaranteed to be there first......is that totally insane?

That's a great idea too, I'm definitely bringing this up. We don't expect that the driver will care (AT ALL) but it would make a nice point.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Freud* 
I think it would be a great idea to develop at HOA and then the HOA can make it a gated community with gates and/or guards at each entrance (if this is plausible, given the layout of the community). Trespassers are arrested. I think all members of the community would have to agree to the development of an HOA though. Your community might want to consult a lawyer to help get you started and draft the necessary documents.

Logistically we can't gate the community, so that won't work. It's a small neighborhood out of the way, but the layout doesn't work for that. We're looking into the HOA idea though to see what that can do to restrict things. The problem is anything we do he finds a way to be exempt for, because his falls under 'right to free speech' and people won't freaking touch that with a ten foot pole.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pinoikoi* 
I don't know. I guess I would build some big signs, post them on my vehicle and cruise his neighborhood with my views on it. See how he likes it. See what he does about it.

Yeahhhhh here's the deal though. There's a state law that specifically outlaws this kind of picketing. I *realize* this is what HE is doing to US, but HE has a federal order that says the city is prohibited from enforcing the law with him and his group...specifically. I asked point blank if the law would be enforced against US and the police 'weren't comfortable commenting on that'.







:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cheshire* 
My first thought was to figure out how to legally take private ownership of your streets so you can control who comes onto the property. This might be a huge hassle and interfere with police and fire responders coming into the neighborhood. Something to look into. If you could gate off the community that would be great and he can't trespass on private property.

Next, I thought have a ton of yard signs printed up saying things like:

"Quit traumatizing my children
-God"

"Jesus says to love your neighbors, not send their kids into therapy"

"We pray for you daily"

"May God change your heart to stop harassing our neighborhood"

"United we stand - spend all the gas money you want"

"You're wasting your time, haven't you figured that out yet?"

This sucks and I hope you find the perfect solution quickly. Best of luck.

I really like the signs with messages, that's spectacular!!!! Taking ownership of the streets is a great idea but not plausible. This is a really basic middle class neighborhood, lots of manual labor folks working more than one job and in school, that sort of thing. Money isn't available. Sigh.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MahnaMahna* 
This might be a good idea - I'd bet you have a law school very close to you. Most law schools have free/reduced cost law clinics (students "take" the cases with professor supervision). The professors might jump at the chance to get involved in this case!

Hadn't thought of this, we have a couple and I'll call them Monday!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MahnaMahna* 
Unfortunately, I came across some articles about this happening in Calgary.

It happens all over the US and Canada, as well as some parts of Europe.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lolagirl* 
I'm glad to hear the meeting with the police went well. Have you considered contacting the office of the president of this institution of higher learning to insist that they help you out on your mission? If this is where and what I think it is, you may be able to persuade them by pointing out how they brought this nuisance on the neighborhood and that they owe you whatever legal or monetary help you need to shut down this UAV.

You definitely have my sympathies, I would be absolutely outraged if this was going on in my town.

Thanks for the support, unfortunately it's not quite that simple







We do know we have the full support from the 'people behind the reason he's here' so that helps tremendously just on the issue of pulling together. At the same time, those people aren't in a position to help much either, as they've been battling this guy and his minions in the courts for over a decade.

Argh.

Can I just say though....y'all seriously rock my world...I'm so impressed that this has managed to stay open and productive and I just so appreciate it. Every time I log on I'm biting my nails that it's had to get pulled. I wouldn't be surprised or even annoyed if that happened, just sad that it went that way. But this whole thread has generated a ton of ideas we hadn't thought of, and this situation has the genuine potential (if we can find a lawyer willing to take it) of becoming a national legal precedent that finds a way to protect OUR rights AND his. Thanks so much


----------



## cristeen

Honestly, if you're going to pursue media attention, I would try to avoid the subject matter completely and approach it from the angle of a Federal judge violating your rights for a special interest group. That the local police force has been ordered that they're not allowed to enforce the laws against this one person, but they're still expected to enforce them against everyone else. By all means include the trauma to the children, but avoid the subject matter entirely if at all possible. *That* tact may very well start a furor going that invoking the subject matter won't. There's such a distrust of politicians (and judges are politicians too), that this approach may get you further.

That's just what I've been thinking as I've been following this thread the last couple days.


----------



## HarperRose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cristeen* 
Honestly, if you're going to pursue media attention, I would try to avoid the subject matter completely and approach it from the angle of a Federal judge violating your rights for a special interest group. That the local police force has been ordered that they're not allowed to enforce the laws against this one person, but they're still expected to enforce them against everyone else. By all means include the trauma to the children, but avoid the subject matter entirely if at all possible. *That* tact may very well start a furor going that invoking the subject matter won't. There's such a distrust of politicians (and judges are politicians too), that this approach may get you further.

That's just what I've been thinking as I've been following this thread the last couple days.

That's a REALLY good point.


----------



## Treasuremapper

Back to the nuisance suit -- it would be a civil action where you would ask for an injunction because this is interfering with your right to peaceful enjoyment of your property.

Common law causes of action do not require you to change statutory law or city ordinances or regulations. This is CIVIL, not criminal, at this point in time, so the police cannot help you without a statuory change.

You need to find a local lawyer who can help you with this.


----------



## Ironica

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cristeen* 
Honestly, if you're going to pursue media attention, I would try to avoid the subject matter completely and approach it from the angle of a Federal judge violating your rights for a special interest group. That the local police force has been ordered that they're not allowed to enforce the laws against this one person, but they're still expected to enforce them against everyone else. By all means include the trauma to the children, but avoid the subject matter entirely if at all possible. *That* tact may very well start a furor going that invoking the subject matter won't. There's such a distrust of politicians (and judges are politicians too), that this approach may get you further.

That's just what I've been thinking as I've been following this thread the last couple days.









:

This finally occurred to me, too. See if you can get a journalist to cover the story of someone deliberately and maliciously flaunting violent, graphic images at your children, causing them emotional harm, and hiding under the cover of "free speech," without _ever mentioning_ what the subject matter is, what the agenda is, or what organization is behind it. Focus on this one guy, your neighborhood, the lengths you've gone to, this Federal judge who doesn't have to wake up in the night to your children's nightmares and has decided this guy has a right to do this.

Give them NO PUBLICITY. Just tell *your* story.

What you'd want to do is develop a personal contact who's a journalist, and make the release you all sign conditional upon this point. If they want to cover the story including that information, they can... but they can't use the images of anyone in the neighborhood, or any quotes from them, to do it.

It will take some time, and you might do best finding an independent journalist who will submit the article to the New Yorker or something like that, rather than a conventional newspaper. (And I think print is probably a better medium for this than TV.)


----------



## moondiapers

Could your neighborhood vote to become a gated community, and put up gates to prevent him from entering?


----------



## colobus237

I really can't imagine any major journalistic outlet covering a story like that without mentioning what the other side was all about. Just saying.


----------



## SleeplessMommy

As Fex and Fuzz mentioned, anti-cruising laws are the way to go. They are instituted for _safety_ in many college towns to keep dumb inebriated college kids from circling the main drag. Get the anti-cruising law first, for *safety* then worry about getting it enforced.

You could also try lowering the speed limit on your street - there could be fewer passes of the truck during daylight hours. I assume he obeys the speed limit and has a valid commercial drivers license?

How much have you been in contact with state representatives? You have dozens or hundreds of affected families, and dozens of kids in therapy. Your state lawmakers may be able to help or to direct you to someone who can. It is not about the "political issue", it is about harm to your kids. Even the lawmakers on "that side" of the issue will understand that kids are being harmed.

I think a Twitter feed (sent to cell phones!) could be used to keep track of the truck - at a national level. You could have a private Yahoo or Google group to track sightings and coordinate legal efforts across state lines. That group could also coordinate fund raising efforts on a multi-state basis, though you can't directly disclose your legal strategy because you can expect to get "moles".

Have you talked with anyone from the major national non-profit they are protesting? I am sure that non-profit has a pretty big legal team to deal with protesters and make strategies.

Has anyone tried taking the truck driver to small claims court for the therapy costs? The cause and effect sounds pretty definite. Of course the truck driver will never pay, but the court ruling would be one more evidence of harm caused by the truck. If you could get the truck confiscated to pay for the therapy, that would be super









If you can find a sympathetic local judge, you may be able to get a restraining order against the truck driver. Bring testimony from the therapist. Get the restraining order first, THEN worry about getting it enforced.

If you can find out which insurance company covers the truck, they may be interested to hear how it is being used. Driving near schools while kids are outside is more likely to have costly accidents than "normal" use of a moving truck.

If you look a the recent Iowa decision to allow gay marriage, big changes are made by a combination of local and national groups, working mostly in secret until the big day comes. You will need the national group, a local group, and your state legislators all working together.

I am sorry you have to deal with all this!


----------



## marimara

I didn't see it mentioned at all but some neighborhoods have "no Through traffic" and "no trucks" in them. idk if that's an option for you though.


----------



## New_Natural_Mom

I have encountered this group before, unfortunately, and ran up against the SAME 'police impotence.' This group bothers me on so many levels, mainly though the negativity and hypocritical hate that contributes to a polarizing dialog rather than a positive, peaceful discussion.

Sorry, had to say that, on to my probably illogical idea. This group has to be funded somehow. Obviously they encourage donations from like minded people to help pay for gas, truck maintenance, legal issues, etc. Might there be a way to legally classify this as advertising? Don't you technically need a permit to put up an advertisement or drive through a community or go door to door? There should be a restriction against advertising...not violating free speech. I just don't understand how this can be legal. And I totally support discovering who the judge is and exposing him.








: This is not an exercise of free speech, it is a blatant assault on others.


----------



## BeeandOwlsMum

Hey folks, this is now in Activism.







Please remember that there is no debate in Activism.







If you don't agree with a cause, scroll on by. If you have a valid counter cause, please post a new thread to Activism.









Thanks for keeping this thread as civil as it has been


----------



## Turquesa

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moondiapers* 
Could your neighborhood vote to become a gated community, and put up gates to prevent him from entering?

I believe that the OP was asking earlier in the thread how to do this. (It's OK if you missed it. It's a long thread!)

If the OP lives in an HOA-run subdivision, it sounds like she would be successful rallying her neighbors to put up the gate. It would involve increasing annual dues to pay for it, but it sounds like there would be enough support.

If she is NOT in an HOA, unfortunately I don't think it would be possible. Traditional neighborhoods have public parks and sidewalks with grassy "buffer zones" and trees for the city to maintain. So the city would need immediate access to it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New_Natural_Mom* 
I have encountered this group before, unfortunately, and ran up against the SAME 'police impotence.'

Theoretica, for clarification, is this a group? Or some nutcase acting alone?

You might also have success in rallying people together who agree with him on the surface of the issue but wouldn't dare resort to such horrid tactics. You'd be surprised how many you could get on board. On any side of any issue, MOST people are pretty level-headed and not extremists. Their voice could be a compelling one.

I'm so sorry you're having to go through this! I can't even imagine answering the questions that the children must have. This is no way to broach a sensitive topic with them!


----------



## Court

How about suing the city for not enforcing it's laws? Or suing the city for emotional distress after getting it all documented. The street in front of the house is where the nuisance and assault is occuring...the street belongs to the city...the city refuses to do anything about it, like update and enforce it's laws...therefore...city responsible for emotional distress...
crazy?


----------



## SleeplessMommy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Turquesa* 
Theoretica, for clarification, is this a group? Or some nutcase acting alone?

It is a group. The group has large numbers of contributors and very small number of people who do the truck driving and other actions. The people doing the driving are lifelong activists. They may have criminal records from various protests or actions, but it does not matter - members of the larger group will keep them fed or employed. Jail time, when it comes to that, actually helps with the fund raising.









I am wondering is a criminal record is a problem with a commercial drivers license in any midwestern states?

I think the fix will be legislation at a state level (public decency laws) combined with the legal battle at the federal level - group X has a right to free speech, but not a right to traumatize children so that they need therapy.


----------



## sapphire_chan

Is a CDL even needed though? The truck was described as a "moving truck."


----------



## New_Natural_Mom

I thought more about this last night. Could this be classified as hate speech? They couldn't go around with pictures of gay/lesbian couples or black individuals on the truck and have it be protected as free speech...I wonder if it could fall under hate speech?


----------



## colobus237

My lawyer-in-the-house says that a local ordinance would be the way to go - and it needs to be content neutral as much as possible. Cruising could be one - also some areas have prohibitions on driving trucks for the purpose of advertising *anything* d/t the street wear and environmental costs - or could go for no graphic bloody sexual or disturbing images over so many inches to be displayed in public or in residential areas. But the more specific it is to the issue at hand, the more likely it would lead to extensive litigation I think. It needs to have a very clear and reasonable purpose outside of suppressing this group's expression of its particular views.


----------



## PudnHead

*Exceptions to Freedom of Expression*
Many exceptions to the First Amendment protections have been recognized by the courts, although not without controversy. Courts sometimes justify these exceptions as speech which causes substantial harm to the public, or speech which the Founding Fathers could not have intended to protect, or traditions that have long been part of the common law tradition from England that was the basis of our American legal system.

Causing panic: The classic example of speech which is not protected by the First Amendment, because it causes panic, is falsely shouting "fire" in a crowded theater. (2) *This is narrowly limited to situations in which a reasonable person would know that it was very likely that his or her speech would really cause harm to others.*
Source: http://www.csulb.edu/~jvancamp/freedom1.html

Wow, I didn't know people were doing this. I did a quick search and one of the exceptions of freedom of speech is causing panic. I bolded the most interesting part. Would this extend to pictures? I can't remember if you said you had a lawyer. Could you document the time he is coming by to show that he is intentionally driving by at times when children are out of school and intentionally inflicting harm on children?


----------



## sapphire_chan

Are pictures speech?

Not that them yelling things to kids would be any better, but wouldn't it be lovely if they could only cover the truck with words?

"hey kids, read this!"


----------



## StoriesInTheSoil

Theoretica, I wanted to let you know I'm still following this and still asking around. My dad said that you should try to pass cruising laws but could police even enforce them with this guy?

I think that when (if) you go to the media it should remain non-specific and focus only on the fact that 1) Children are being traumatized and are terrified and 2) a federal judge is allowing it to go on.

What was the case that brought this in front of a judge in the first place (you can PM me on this one if you want.)

I am horrified by the situation you are in right now and I'm sending you and your neighborhood good thoughts and peaceful vibes.


----------



## 2cutiekitties

Is moving out of the neighborhood an option? I mean it seems like except a gate (which you cant do) there is nothing. We have an HOA and the sign says not to solicit ... stops no one!!

I am dying to know why he is targeting your neighborhood. I am going to be house hunting soon and I really dont want to end up in this situation. The unknown is so scary









Hugs to you. No one should have to deal with crap like this in neighborhoods.


----------



## SleeplessMommy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2cutiekitties* 
I am dying to know why he is targeting your neighborhood.

I don't know her specific situation, but there are two obvious possible reasons: 1) a person in her neighborhood works for the non-profit organization that the "truck" group is targeting. The non-profit probably has dozens of employees, all whose names are known get targeted with the truck, death threats, etc - as do their children's schools. 2) there is a middle school or high school nearby.


----------



## Theoretica

Sorry I haven't had a chance to sit and reply to everyone, thanks so much for the continued support and interest. The 'out of the box' ideas are exactly what we need to get around this guy.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cristeen* 
approach it from the angle of a Federal judge violating your rights for a special interest group. That the local police force has been ordered that they're not allowed to enforce the laws against this one person, but they're still expected to enforce them against everyone else. By all means include the trauma to the children, but avoid the subject matter entirely if at all possible. *That* tact may very well start a furor going that invoking the subject matter won't. There's such a distrust of politicians (and judges are politicians too), that this approach may get you further.

That's what I was thinking too. I'm going to detail this to the neighborhood as it makes the most sense. We can't get the order vacated, but as far as the media route this is the best chance we've got.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Treasuremapper* 
Common law causes of action do not require you to change statutory law or city ordinances or regulations. This is CIVIL, not criminal, at this point in time, so the police cannot help you without a statuory change.You need to find a local lawyer who can help you with this.

We're definitely going the route of changing the laws, but the civil route is a definite as well. The key is finding the lawyer...that's where we keep running dry as no one wants to touch it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ironica* 
This finally occurred to me, too. See if you can get a journalist to cover the story of someone deliberately and maliciously flaunting violent, graphic images at your children, causing them emotional harm, and hiding under the cover of "free speech," without _ever mentioning_ what the subject matter is, what the agenda is, or what organization is behind it. Focus on this one guy, your neighborhood, the lengths you've gone to, this Federal judge who doesn't have to wake up in the night to your children's nightmares and has decided this guy has a right to do this. Give them NO PUBLICITY. Just tell *your* story. What you'd want to do is develop a personal contact who's a journalist, and make the release you all sign conditional upon this point. If they want to cover the story including that information, they can... but they can't use the images of anyone in the neighborhood, or any quotes from them, to do it. It will take some time, and you might do best finding an independent journalist who will submit the article to the New Yorker or something like that, rather than a conventional newspaper. (And I think print is probably a better medium for this than TV.)

ITA, the thing is the pictures are what sell the papers, and unfortunately the intensity of the graphics is what gets the journalistic furor all a flutter. Otherwise it's not that interesting of a story, AND it doesn't affect the national audience. It's when the 'rest of the story' is added that people realize how much it affects them.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moondiapers* 
Could your neighborhood vote to become a gated community, and put up gates to prevent him from entering?

Yeahhhhhh I doubt it. We don't have a layout conducive to that anyways. I wish.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SleeplessMommy* 
As Fex and Fuzz mentioned, anti-cruising laws are the way to go. They are instituted for _safety_ in many college towns to keep dumb inebriated college kids from circling the main drag. Get the anti-cruising law first, for *safety* then worry about getting it enforced.

You could also try lowering the speed limit on your street - there could be fewer passes of the truck during daylight hours. I assume he obeys the speed limit and has a valid commercial drivers license?

How much have you been in contact with state representatives? You have dozens or hundreds of affected families, and dozens of kids in therapy. Your state lawmakers may be able to help or to direct you to someone who can. It is not about the "political issue", it is about harm to your kids. Even the lawmakers on "that side" of the issue will understand that kids are being harmed.

I think a Twitter feed (sent to cell phones!) could be used to keep track of the truck - at a national level. You could have a private Yahoo or Google group to track sightings and coordinate legal efforts across state lines. That group could also coordinate fund raising efforts on a multi-state basis, though you can't directly disclose your legal strategy because you can expect to get "moles".

Have you talked with anyone from the major national non-profit they are protesting? I am sure that non-profit has a pretty big legal team to deal with protesters and make strategies.

Has anyone tried taking the truck driver to small claims court for the therapy costs? The cause and effect sounds pretty definite. Of course the truck driver will never pay, but the court ruling would be one more evidence of harm caused by the truck. If you could get the truck confiscated to pay for the therapy, that would be super









If you can find a sympathetic local judge, you may be able to get a restraining order against the truck driver. Bring testimony from the therapist. Get the restraining order first, THEN worry about getting it enforced.

If you can find out which insurance company covers the truck, they may be interested to hear how it is being used. Driving near schools while kids are outside is more likely to have costly accidents than "normal" use of a moving truck.

If you look a the recent Iowa decision to allow gay marriage, big changes are made by a combination of local and national groups, working mostly in secret until the big day comes. You will need the national group, a local group, and your state legislators all working together.

I'll look into the anti-cruising laws. The thing is, we already have it in the original law that patrolling an area where they aren't wanted is illegal. They just can't enforce it now. Restraining orders have been tried and the driver's legal team has appealed until they are vacated. State representatives are 'concerned' about our 'situation' but have stressed that they can do nothing other than listen because they don't want to give the impression they are 'taking sides'. That should tell you how powerful the group is that funds this driver. Not sure how we'd find the insurance company of the truck, but that's an interesting idea for sure and I'll do some digging. We have a private yahoo group, that was one of the first things I got going, ITA about that one.

And, he isn't protesting a national non profit. He's protesting a topic. So there's no legal team to back us up. I am in contact with some national groups that advocate for that topic, but they aren't directly connected or involved. Interestingly, they knew his name as soon as I mentioned it and I did get patched through to their legal team within seconds...







:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *marimara* 
I didn't see it mentioned at all but some neighborhoods have "no Through traffic" and "no trucks" in them. idk if that's an option for you though.

I think he'd wriggle out under 'free speech', or just get bigger picket signs for walking the neighborhood, but it's worth looking into and I put it on the list









Quote:


Originally Posted by *New_Natural_Mom* 
This group has to be funded somehow. Obviously they encourage donations from like minded people to help pay for gas, truck maintenance, legal issues, etc. Might there be a way to legally classify this as advertising? Don't you technically need a permit to put up an advertisement or drive through a community or go door to door? There should be a restriction against advertising...not violating free speech. I just don't understand how this can be legal. And I totally support discovering who the judge is and exposing him.

It's not advertising, it's protesting.







There's no product involved. I know who the judge is that signed the federal order. Until we get a lawyer there's nothing we can do about that end of it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AdinaL* 
Hey folks, this is now in Activism.







Please remember that there is no debate in Activism.







If you don't agree with a cause, scroll on by. If you have a valid counter cause, please post a new thread to Activism.









Thanks for keeping this thread as civil as it has been









Yeayyyyyy! Thanks so much!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Turquesa* 
If the OP lives in an HOA-run subdivision, it sounds like she would be successful rallying her neighbors to put up the gate. It would involve increasing annual dues to pay for it, but it sounds like there would be enough support.

If she is NOT in an HOA, unfortunately I don't think it would be possible. Traditional neighborhoods have public parks and sidewalks with grassy "buffer zones" and trees for the city to maintain. So the city would need immediate access to it.

Theoretica, for clarification, is this a group? Or some nutcase acting alone?

You might also have success in rallying people together who agree with him on the surface of the issue but wouldn't dare resort to such horrid tactics. You'd be surprised how many you could get on board. On any side of any issue, MOST people are pretty level-headed and not extremists. Their voice could be a compelling one.

We're not in an HOA.

It's an individual who is funded by a national group. It's done very carefully so there's no 'official' connection, but the national group donates all funds to him to support what he does.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Court* 
How about suing the city for not enforcing it's laws? Or suing the city for emotional distress after getting it all documented. The street in front of the house is where the nuisance and assault is occuring...the street belongs to the city...the city refuses to do anything about it, like update and enforce it's laws...therefore...city responsible for emotional distress...
crazy?

ITA...working on the lawyer aspect.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SleeplessMommy* 
It is a group. The group has large numbers of contributors and very small number of people who do the truck driving and other actions. The people doing the driving are lifelong activists. They may have criminal records from various protests or actions, but it does not matter - members of the larger group will keep them fed or employed. Jail time, when it comes to that, actually helps with the fund raising.









I am wondering is a criminal record is a problem with a commercial drivers license in any midwestern states?

I think the fix will be legislation at a state level (public decency laws) combined with the legal battle at the federal level - group X has a right to free speech, but not a right to traumatize children so that they need therapy.

Your description of the workings of this group are very accurate.

ITA re: decency law definitions

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
Is a CDL even needed though? The truck was described as a "moving truck."

Exactly. It's the largest one allowed without a CDL.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New_Natural_Mom* 
I thought more about this last night. Could this be classified as hate speech? They couldn't go around with pictures of gay/lesbian couples or black individuals on the truck and have it be protected as free speech...I wonder if it could fall under hate speech?

Nope. Not here at least.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ccohenou* 
My lawyer-in-the-house says that a local ordinance would be the way to go - and it needs to be content neutral as much as possible. Cruising could be one - also some areas have prohibitions on driving trucks for the purpose of advertising *anything* d/t the street wear and environmental costs - or could go for no graphic bloody sexual or disturbing images over so many inches to be displayed in public or in residential areas. But the more specific it is to the issue at hand, the more likely it would lead to extensive litigation I think. It needs to have a very clear and reasonable purpose outside of suppressing this group's expression of its particular views.

Yep we're pushing the city council to redefine their obscenity laws.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PudnHead* 
*Exceptions to Freedom of Expression*
Many exceptions to the First Amendment protections have been recognized by the courts, although not without controversy. Courts sometimes justify these exceptions as speech which causes substantial harm to the public, or speech which the Founding Fathers could not have intended to protect, or traditions that have long been part of the common law tradition from England that was the basis of our American legal system.

Causing panic: The classic example of speech which is not protected by the First Amendment, because it causes panic, is falsely shouting "fire" in a crowded theater. (2) *This is narrowly limited to situations in which a reasonable person would know that it was very likely that his or her speech would really cause harm to others.*
Source: http://www.csulb.edu/~jvancamp/freedom1.html

Wow, I didn't know people were doing this. I did a quick search and one of the exceptions of freedom of speech is causing panic. I bolded the most interesting part. Would this extend to pictures? I can't remember if you said you had a lawyer. Could you document the time he is coming by to show that he is intentionally driving by at times when children are out of school and intentionally inflicting harm on children?

I think this is a good angle for when we are able to head to court.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tinyactsofcharity* 
Theoretica, I wanted to let you know I'm still following this and still asking around. My dad said that you should try to pass cruising laws but could police even enforce them with this guy?

I think that when (if) you go to the media it should remain non-specific and focus only on the fact that 1) Children are being traumatized and are terrified and 2) a federal judge is allowing it to go on.

What was the case that brought this in front of a judge in the first place (you can PM me on this one if you want.)

See that's the thing, we can change the laws all we want, but if the police are ordered not to enforce them...what the @$#*(&#$ do we do about it???

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2cutiekitties* 
Is moving out of the neighborhood an option?

No. It would solve the problem for us, but not anyone else.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SleeplessMommy* 
I don't know her specific situation, but there are two obvious possible reasons: 1) a person in her neighborhood works for the non-profit organization that the "truck" group is targeting. The non-profit probably has dozens of employees, all whose names are known get targeted with the truck, death threats, etc - as do their children's schools. 2) there is a middle school or high school nearby.

Try elementary school. And there's an opponent to their 'cause' in our neighborhood who, BTW is one of the nicest and kindest people I've ever encountered. With the exception of a few folks, the entire neighborhood has rallied around the 'opponent' and made it clear 'the driver' isn't going to run them out of the neighborhood, it'll be the other way around thankyouverykindly









Wish me luck, I'm returning calls to the media and several legal organizations...I'll keep everyone posted


----------



## colobus237

The thing is that it is *really hard* to make an obscenity charge stick to political speech. Usually it would have to be a direct incitement to violence with a reasonable chance that violence or other threat to life or limb will imminently occur to count under the panic/incitement exceptions. It's really, really hard to win a stand-alone claim for intentional infliction of emotional distress - in some places it is actually legally impossible. Political speech, even the ugly and disturbing kind, has a very high level of constitutional protection and anything that affects it is likely to be heavily scrutinized in court. I think that ordinances dealing with repeatedly driving around period, with a totally non-speech-related purpose ie safety or street wear, might be the best option.


----------



## SleeplessMommy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ccohenou* 
... with a totally non-speech-related purpose ie safety or street wear, might be the best option.

I would go with safety on this one. Then the federal judge will be choosing between the _safety_ of kids playing in or near the street (get some photos!) and the "free speech rights" of the group in question.


----------



## sapphire_chan

Can the elementary school playground be walled? Some plywood, lots of paint, and some volunteers and there's a nice batch of murals?

Get the kids to ask the driver why he hates kids?

I think what really gets me about this is that, assuming it's the agenda I think it is, positive images would be 100% more effective at getting elementary school kids on their side. All the negative images do is make the kids associate that man with being scared.


----------



## Turquesa

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New_Natural_Mom* 
I thought more about this last night. Could this be classified as hate speech? They couldn't go around with pictures of gay/lesbian couples or black individuals on the truck and have it be protected as free speech...I wonder if it could fall under hate speech?

If what these people are doing legally constitutes "speech," she probably wouldn't have a lot of luck taking this route. Some years ago, the Aryan Nations demanded the right to march in a local parade in our area. The ACLU successfully defended them on the grounds of free speech, even though there was little disagreement that the message was hateful. Come to think of it, I wonder what the ACLU would have to say about the OP's dilemma&#8230;

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ccohenou* 
Political speech, even the ugly and disturbing kind, has a very high level of constitutional protection and anything that affects it is likely to be heavily scrutinized in court. I think that ordinances dealing with repeatedly driving around period, with a totally non-speech-related purpose ie safety or street wear, might be the best option.

I would agree. At the same time, I wonder if this case would be different because it involves images. For example, the city MUST have some sort of prohibition against blantantly pornographic billboards (I mean, beyond the stupid, booby beer commercials). Pornography ranks right up there with violence for "obscenity," especially the extreme violence that is apparently portrayed in these images.

Theoretica, these days most cities post their codes online. It might help to skim through them and see if you find anything that your city officials may have missed.


----------



## honorelspeth

maybe you could set up a "donation fund." for each time he drives through the neighborhood, a donation to a specific organization (ahem) will be made in his name. you could put signs up in the neighborhood informing him of the fund, that might be a deterrent? "for each visit, a donation will be made to (organization) in your honor. because of you, we will be able to help many females in need. thank you for your support!"


----------



## ColoradoMama

My idea may not be feasible at all because it would take a lot of coordination and cooperation, but here goes: Have a phone tree and several volunteers. When someone sees him pull in the neighborhood - pull out in front of him and block his way - temporarily. You know - oh darn, the car just won't start. The phone tree starts - people vacate - go inside - go to the backyard - whatever. Have volunteers with loud speakers to walk through the neighborhood warning that the obscene man is here. The car would mysteriously start and get out of obscene man's way before the police could ever show up. His audience is gone. If he doesn't have an audience, maybe eventually he'll stop coming. Just a though and probably too complicated anyway. Good luck.

I really like honorelspeth's idea.









It really seems like parents of children who have been harmed have a good civil case against this man, but I am not a lawyer.


----------



## michelleklu

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ColoradoMama* 
My idea may not be feasible at all because it would take a lot of coordination and cooperation, but here goes: Have a phone tree and several volunteers. When someone sees him pull in the neighborhood - pull out in front of him and block his way - temporarily. You know - oh darn, the car just won't start. The phone tree starts - people vacate - go inside - go to the backyard - whatever. Have volunteers with loud speakers to walk through the neighborhood warning that the obscene man is here. The car would mysteriously start and get out of obscene man's way before the police could ever show up. His audience is gone. If he doesn't have an audience, maybe eventually he'll stop coming. Just a though and probably too complicated anyway. Good luck.

I really like honorelspeth's idea.









It really seems like parents of children who have been harmed have a good civil case against this man, but I am not a lawyer.

Ooh, this sounds really cool. If he knows that he's still having an impact on the town, he'd probably keep doing it? I don't know. He doesn't seem like a very logical person, lol.


----------



## Theoretica

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
Can the elementary school playground be walled? Some plywood, lots of paint, and some volunteers and there's a nice batch of murals? Get the kids to ask the driver why he hates kids?

The schools are on raised areas of land, the fence/wall would have to be extraordinarily tall to make any difference. And, he waits for when they are out of school/walking home.

Asking him why he hates kids would send him into a tirade of unimaginable length and detail.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Turquesa* 
Come to think of it, I wonder what the ACLU would have to say about the OP's dilemma&#8230;

Theoretica, these days most cities post their codes online. It might help to skim through them and see if you find anything that your city officials may have missed.

The ACLU is reviewing the federal order but otherwise has represented The Driver and His Minions in court.

We're a smaller town, codes aren't online yet. I'll work on getting a copy of them though....there's got to be SOMETHING.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *honorelspeth* 
maybe you could set up a "donation fund." for each time he drives through the neighborhood, a donation to a specific organization (ahem) will be made in his name. you could put signs up in the neighborhood informing him of the fund, that might be a deterrent? "for each visit, a donation will be made to (organization) in your honor. because of you, we will be able to help many females in need. thank you for your support!"

Can I just say that THIS idea is simply SPECTACULAR?!?!?! I wonder if that could be a whole campaign...see if we could get like minded folks around the country to all donate $1/$5 to their local/national Opposing Viewpoint Organization for every pass he makes? Oh. My. God. that would piss him/them off SO badly to know that driving through....instead of pissing us off and trying to STOP him....that we're just sending the kids inside and counting the funds raised....laughup







: Hmmmm. We could do a website or something to keep track of it and invite neighborhoods around the country to participate. Have a fundraising thermometer or something to be sooo excited about it, totally change the energy focus? MWAHAHAHA! I love it!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ColoradoMama* 
My idea may not be feasible at all because it would take a lot of coordination and cooperation, but here goes: Have a phone tree and several volunteers. When someone sees him pull in the neighborhood - pull out in front of him and block his way - temporarily. You know - oh darn, the car just won't start. The phone tree starts - people vacate - go inside - go to the backyard - whatever. Have volunteers with loud speakers to walk through the neighborhood warning that the obscene man is here. The car would mysteriously start and get out of obscene man's way before the police could ever show up. His audience is gone. If he doesn't have an audience, maybe eventually he'll stop coming. Just a though and probably too complicated anyway. Good luck.

Yeahhhhhh the police have already said they'd have to issue citations for blocking traffic, even if it 'accidentally' started up and left the area.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *michelleklu* 
He doesn't seem like a very logical person, lol.

THAT is the understatement of the CENTURY!


----------



## New_Natural_Mom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *honorelspeth* 
maybe you could set up a "donation fund." for each time he drives through the neighborhood, a donation to a specific organization (ahem) will be made in his name. you could put signs up in the neighborhood informing him of the fund, that might be a deterrent? "for each visit, a donation will be made to (organization) in your honor. because of you, we will be able to help many females in need. thank you for your support!"









: I LOVE this idea. Sign me up. I already donate to the opposing viewpoint, but I will happily add $ to this cause (b/c I feel it is valuable & important anyway)!

What a positive way to approach the situation.

OP, I would also be willing to donate to a fund set up for legal fees to combat this group. Set the precedent & hopefully they can be stopped everywhere.


----------



## Theoretica

Awesome!!! Let me work on getting something set up for that and I'll let you know









I'm thinking for the drive by donations, I'll see if we can get a website...I was thinking stopthetruck or something but I'd rather a positive focus to keep the theme consistent









Anywhoo, I'm thinking I could videotape him driving by over and over, then post it on the website and have the sound be a 'kaching' sound with a little balloon that says THANK YOU FOR DONATING $X TO THE __________ CAUSE!!!

I. Would. Die. Laughing.

I still think we need to work on changing the laws, but this is a great way to handle it in the meantime. And I betcha he wouldn't be as interested in coming by if folks had yard signs saying "thanks for helping us donate to the _____ cause!" or some other really clever phrase that we haven't thought of yet


----------



## Mamafreya

Quote:


Originally Posted by *honorelspeth* 
maybe you could set up a "donation fund." for each time he drives through the neighborhood, a donation to a specific organization (ahem) will be made in his name. you could put signs up in the neighborhood informing him of the fund, that might be a deterrent? "for each visit, a donation will be made to (organization) in your honor. because of you, we will be able to help many females in need. thank you for your support!"









I Love this idea!!!!


----------



## honorelspeth

i would also be willing to donate







. i know many, many like-minded people that would probably offer a donation as well.

i really hope your neighborhood is able to find a long-term solution. this has got to stop.


----------



## Theoretica

Ok so help me brainstorm a cool name to do this...

Stop The Truck is catchy but the wrong focus. I mean ITA that this might help stop the truck, but in order for reverse psychology to WORK and all....


----------



## fek&fuzz

How about www.Thanks[Guy's Name or his org's name].com

or F*ckTheTruck.com


----------



## New_Natural_Mom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fek&fuzz* 
How about www.Thanks[Guy's Name or his org's name].com

or F*ckTheTruck.com

I love option #2, but don't see that as being super positive.

www.lovefromhate.com?

peacefromhate.com

takebackourtown.com

thanksforyourcooperation.com


----------



## sapphire_chan

You should also put a thing on the website where people can make Paypal donations when they see a truck in their area.

Hmm, the website name does need work, stopthetruck sounds like a protest against emissions.

How about:
KidsAreChildrenToo


----------



## New_Natural_Mom

Possible text for the website. This was just off the top of my head and not polished in any way. Feel free to use, discard, edit, etc.:

Free speech and freedom of expression was a bedrock ideal upon which America was founded. It is our diversity as a country that is a great strength and also a challenge. There comes a point when free speech crosses a boundary from what the founding fathers intended into malicious, spiteful, vindictive, and violent attacks. As a community, we welcome different ideas when presented in a positive, respectful manner. This is difficult when topics spring from passionate, deep-seeded belief, but we believe that expressing "free speech" in such a way that it presents a violent, offensive, and negative message simply exacerbates underlying tensions and closes off any and all positive, healing, and productive dialog.

In response to the activities of certain groups who thrive on using shocking, angry, violent, and graphic images in such a way that vagrantly and willfully (and intentionally) targets young children we are going to respond in a manner that turns something negative into something positive.

Every time this truck drives up or down our streets, members of a consortium of concerned citizens have committed to donating $5 to ______ in this group's name. At the current rate of traffic this will result in anywhere from $100 - $200 per day! As a community we are grateful that this money will go to women and families in need and make a positive contribution to such an unpleasant situation. Become a member of the consortium today and help support our noble cause.

It isn't right for extremist groups to hide behind slick lawyers and corrupt judges in order to bend the constitution in order to support what amounts to domestic terrorism. We welcome your support.

Respectfully,


----------



## Turquesa

Quote:


Originally Posted by *honorelspeth* 
maybe you could set up a "donation fund." for each time he drives through the neighborhood, a donation to a specific organization (ahem) will be made in his name. you could put signs up in the neighborhood informing him of the fund, that might be a deterrent? "for each visit, a donation will be made to (organization) in your honor. because of you, we will be able to help many females in need. thank you for your support!"

Our local branch of "Ahem" has outright admitted that the whole pledge-a-protester tactic is not a deterrent. It's more just a cutsey fundraising idea.

And don't forget that not everybody opposing this driver opposes his side of the issue. Not everybody is pro-X, and this could only serve to isolate those who are pro-Y







and strongly deplore this tactic, (which, by the way, is also used in by a _pro-X_ organization based in Colorado).

My point is that there's the message itself and then there's the way that its conveyed. The opposition should focus on the latter.

Ever the devil's advocate














,

~T


----------



## flminivanmama

i'd donate!!


----------



## Theoretica

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fek&fuzz* 
How about www.Thanks[Guy's Name or his org's name].com

or F*ckTheTruck.com

I *really* like 'www .thankTheDriver dotcom. His name is REALLY well known in both circles. He's a hero to 'their side' and a pariah to 'the opposition'.

The second one is my absolute favorite though. I mean seriously now...I just want THAT on a t-shirt!!!!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *New_Natural_Mom* 
Possible text for the website. This was just off the top of my head and not polished in any way. Feel free to use, discard, edit, etc.:

Free speech and freedom of expression was a bedrock ideal upon which America was founded. It is our diversity as a country that is a great strength and also a challenge. There comes a point when free speech crosses a boundary from what the founding fathers intended into malicious, spiteful, vindictive, and violent attacks. As a community, we welcome different ideas when presented in a positive, respectful manner. This is difficult when topics spring from passionate, deep-seeded belief, but we believe that expressing "free speech" in such a way that it presents a violent, offensive, and negative message simply exacerbates underlying tensions and closes off any and all positive, healing, and productive dialog.

In response to the activities of certain groups who thrive on using shocking, angry, violent, and graphic images in such a way that vagrantly and willfully (and intentionally) targets young children we are going to respond in a manner that turns something negative into something positive.

Every time this truck drives up or down our streets, members of a consortium of concerned citizens have committed to donating $5 to ______ in this group's name. At the current rate of traffic this will result in anywhere from $100 - $200 per day! As a community we are grateful that this money will go to women and families in need and make a positive contribution to such an unpleasant situation. Become a member of the consortium today and help support our noble cause.

It isn't right for extremist groups to hide behind slick lawyers and corrupt judges in order to bend the constitution in order to support what amounts to domestic terrorism. We welcome your support.
Respectfully,


















Quote:


Originally Posted by *Turquesa* 
Our local branch of "Ahem" has outright admitted that the whole pledge-a-protester tactic is not a deterrent. It's more just a cutsey fundraising idea.

And don't forget that not everybody opposing this driver opposes his side of the issue. Not everybody is pro-X, and this could only serve to isolate those who are pro-Y







and strongly deplore this tactic, (which, by the way, is also used in by a _pro-X_ organization based in Colorado).

My point is that there's the message itself and then there's the way that its conveyed. The opposition should focus on the latter.
~T

Good points, I appreciate the input! Could you PM me some links to any sites or groups that have info about this tactic, from either side?

I've never heard of it being used before, and I'm wondering if it's done on a grander scale if it would work to draw better attention to the issue. I like the idea because it does the one thing they DON"T want. So, even if they don't change the images (which would be the goal anyways) it's at least doing some good somewhere. If they changed to neutral or positive images I'd wager most folks wouldn't bat an eye.

Plus it's hard to win the public's approval when you are doing something hateful and scary, and the opposition is turning it into something constructive and positive.

Hmmmm...thanks for the devil's advocate perspective. How appropriate a term too LOLOLOL


----------



## IceyTheBatmom

Personally, at this point, I probably would have resorted to taking the law into my own hands, so kudos to you and your neighborhood for being so patient.

I read the whole thread, and at first, seriously, I thought we were talking about a certain animal rights group that's been known to target children with some really terrible, traumatizing 'comics' and the like. Maybe you could look into what's been done to stop them, and go off of it?

While I did see someone saying sue the police, I was thinking maybe picket the police at the station? A few big signs reading "To protect and to serve... FAIL!" (Sorry, been on failblog too much lately, hehe) may bring the reporters in.

For a domain/name for the donation idea, I agree that Stop the Truck is too out there, but maybe 'Stop the Trauma?'


----------



## ColoradoMama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IceyTheBatmom* 
For a domain/name for the donation idea, I agree that Stop the Truck is too out there, but maybe 'Stop the Trauma?'

or "Save the children?"


----------



## Theoretica

Thanks for the ideas









I'm still brainstorming. I'd love to take all of these ideas and go with them, but we have to weigh everything with the likelihood of attracting more crazies to the area.

With a recent event that has occurred very close to our home, (and probably cannot be discussed in this thread), we are going to have to be as low key as possible in our fight to deal with this, out of concerns for the protection and safety of everyone involved. I don't think taking on this group 'by the horns' is necessarily the most judicious use of our resources, given that their tendencies clearly lean towards violence.

I do love the website idea. But after doing some research, the groups that support this driver have a history of hacking opposition websites, and folks helping them find their homes, vehicles, and properties vandalized in the night. So that isn't likely to go forward at this time. For now we've got air horns to blow as a signal to get the kids in the house. But the legal representation route is going to be even more difficult now that there's a direct concern about personal safety when dealing with these people. I'm still making phone calls though. Thanks everyone for the support and ideas, I really appreciate it and have passed it along to our local group.


----------



## Irishmommy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ColoradoMama* 
or "Save the children?"


That's taken.


----------



## New_Natural_Mom

I was wondering if that recent event was near you and thought of you and your neighbors when I heard about it. I still feel that it is domestic terrorism, but understand the very real fear of violence.







to you and your community. Hopefully this can be resolved peacefully and these people can see reason.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Theoretica* 
Thanks for the ideas









I'm still brainstorming. I'd love to take all of these ideas and go with them, but we have to weigh everything with the likelihood of attracting more crazies to the area.

With a recent event that has occurred very close to our home, (and probably cannot be discussed in this thread), we are going to have to be as low key as possible in our fight to deal with this, out of concerns for the protection and safety of everyone involved. I don't think taking on this group 'by the horns' is necessarily the most judicious use of our resources, given that their tendencies clearly lean towards violence.

I do love the website idea. But after doing some research, the groups that support this driver have a history of hacking opposition websites, and folks helping them find their homes, vehicles, and properties vandalized in the night. So that isn't likely to go forward at this time. For now we've got air horns to blow as a signal to get the kids in the house. But the legal representation route is going to be even more difficult now that there's a direct concern about personal safety when dealing with these people. I'm still making phone calls though. Thanks everyone for the support and ideas, I really appreciate it and have passed it along to our local group.


----------



## sapphire_chan

If it's domestic terrorism, could you report this guy to homeland security?


----------



## SleeplessMommy

Given the recent developments, you might be able to have a lawyer ask a judge for an emergency injunction against the protesters - to give law enforcement time to figure out if *your* protesters were associated with the murderer.









By the way, if the local school is the main draw for the truck, a hedge planting of arbor vitae could make a very fast, affordable screen. Put in some white pine or blue spruce also (on the inside or outside), for a very natural looking visual barrier. A good landscaper will be able to provide advice.







:


----------



## eclipse

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Theoretica* 
Thanks for the ideas









With a recent event that has occurred very close to our home, (and probably cannot be discussed in this thread), we are going to have to be as low key as possible in our fight to deal with this, out of concerns for the protection and safety of everyone involved. I don't think taking on this group 'by the horns' is necessarily the most judicious use of our resources, given that their tendencies clearly lean towards violence.



that was near you? damn.


----------



## flminivanmama

way back in the beginning of the thread I was going to say something about Dr. Slepian and how you should be careful & I decided not to b/c I thought it would never happen again... had devestatingly sad that I was so wrong


----------



## Viola

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jocelyndale* 
Join the parade.







Adults and older teens with large poles holding up loooong, tall swaths of sheet/tarp. You get a line-up on either side of the truck and march along. If he drives that slowly, it would be easy to keep up.

That's what I was thinking a blanket party was.


----------



## Romana

This case, while an older case, may be helpful for you as a lay person in getting some talking points. It's a case from '98 where similar tactics were deemed not protected by the First Amendment.

http://www.wturley.com/news/news.htm

It indicates that IIED may be an option for your neighborhood, with a substantial potential recovery. If children are receiving therapy for trauma associated with this, I think there's something there.


----------



## khaoskat

I would be marching my happy back side down to the federal court with a list of dates and times (keep a log of every time the truck drives through the streets) and a few of my neighbors with our children and pictures of what is on the sides of the trucks.

Say that we understand the ideas of freedom of speech, but he is going to create a riot because we are no longer going to tolerate this. He is hurting our children with his message and showing material that is inappropriate to our children.

I would then contact your State's Attorney General Office and ask them to look into this gentle for corruption of a minor.


----------



## khaoskat

If you think they are stalking you and your neighbors, and are fearful for your and your children's safety (have each person in your neighborhood do this)...

Go to your County Courthouse and file a Civil Stalking Protection Order against the company and its employees. Then the cops have no choice but to act, because they are violating a restraining order and all their guns/weapons get taken away.


----------



## lovebug

... can read whole thread at work i will be back


----------



## Kristine233

Can the people being targeted file harrassment charges against him and get a restraining order?

I really hope you guys are able to find some sort of resolution. In our area it probably woudl end in violence too, so i understand what you mean by being a touchy situation. I comend the patience you all have shown so far!


----------



## Theoretica

Quote:


Originally Posted by *khaoskat* 
I would then contact your State's Attorney General Office and ask them to look into this gentle for corruption of a minor.

The State Attorney General has issued several statements, including one just a few days ago, that indicate his personal views are such that he isn't any help to us. Our calls to his office have not been returned. We think he's going to run for governor soon, and the politics are such in this state that he doesn't want to be seen as helping 'the other side'. So much for being in the 21st century.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *khaoskat* 
If you think they are stalking you and your neighbors, and are fearful for your and your children's safety (have each person in your neighborhood do this)...

Go to your County Courthouse and file a Civil Stalking Protection Order against the company and its employees. Then the cops have no choice but to act, because they are violating a restraining order and all their guns/weapons get taken away.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kristine233* 
Can the people being targeted file harrassment charges against him and get a restraining order?

This has been tried, the retraining order was vacated on appeal. The individual is 'protesting' so it's protected, we're not.

And, now that there's been a recent event closely related to this issue, the lawyers aren't returning calls anymore.

ARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!







:


----------



## Okapi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Theoretica* 

Asking him why he hates kids would send him into a tirade of unimaginable length and detail.


Would this tirade potentially involve threats or other non-protected speech?

Another thought, if this tirade occurred on his first pass through, would it be long enough to limit the number of times he could drive through the neighborhood that day?

Just a couple of thoughts I had while reading, though probably not much help. That is a really tough situation.


----------



## eclipse

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Theoretica* 
The State Attorney General has issued several statements, including one just a few days ago, that indicate his personal views are such that he isn't any help to us. Our calls to his office have not been returned. We think he's going to run for governor soon, and the politics are such in this state that he doesn't want to be seen as helping 'the other side'. So much for being in the 21st century.











I wonder if whomever his opponent will be would be interested in hearing from you.


----------



## Belia

I just stumbled on this thread and am absolutely HORRIFIED that you and your neighborhood are going through this.

And I am














:




































:







that you are not able to find ANYONE within the legal community to take this man / group on. Everyone who is in a position to help you is running scared, which leaves you out in the dust.

Even if you got the local laws changed or added new laws to the books (ie a cruising statute), it doesn't sound like local law enforcement would enforce them.

I'll be thinking about this one..... in the meantime, I wish you well.


----------



## SunshineJ

Ok reading through all of this, I'm wondering why no one has sued the guy for medical expenses and future therapy bills? A clear link has been established, the health professionals have the documentation to back it up. People take others to court and win all the time for cases like that - and if just one person or neighborhood did this and won, the floodgates would open and other neighborhoods or individuals would follow. You could also request a change of venue if needed. Just a thought.


----------



## StoriesInTheSoil

I don't really have anything to add right now but I wanted to let you know that I'm still here, still reading, still brainstorming and thinking of you and your family and neighbors. I'm also still mad as nails this is happening and I'm so so so impressed by your ability to keep your cool.

Please don't hesitate to contact me if you need anything.


----------



## Theoretica

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SunshineJ* 
Ok reading through all of this, I'm wondering why no one has sued the guy for medical expenses and future therapy bills? A clear link has been established, the health professionals have the documentation to back it up. People take others to court and win all the time for cases like that - and if just one person or neighborhood did this and won, the floodgates would open and other neighborhoods or individuals would follow. You could also request a change of venue if needed. Just a thought.

Because we'd need a lawyer to do that. And there isn't one that we can find who is willing to take the case. I've talked to actual litigation lawyers who, as soon as they realize the organization we're dealing with, all of a sudden "don't take these types of cases".








:


----------



## 2pinks

any updates?


----------



## Theoretica

Well hum.

We formed a neighborhood group that no one has followed up on doing anything organized with, despite my pointing out that nothing will change if we don't stay motivated and mobilized. I've tried. I get ignored. I've nudged, I get ignored. Basically it's too much work for people to stay on top of this, they've lost interest, so they hole up in their homes and pull their kids inside while this group of wingnuts holds the entire neighborhood hostage.

He's still coming by every 2-3 weeks for an hour or so, circling the same few streets 10-20 times. I've got pictures and documentation, most without his realizing it. The one time he saw me taking photos he waved and smiled, and his passenger took video of me taking pictures of them. Blech. We've been warned by area police that his brand of protesters are going to increase in intensity thanks to recent events.

Our councilman *might* be working on a law to restrict residential cruising. Found that out after he (finally) emailed back one of the neighbors. He's ignored everything from everyone else. Nothing is going to be done on the obscenity definition though, from the looks of it. I think that's too much work for them when Mr. Driver has so much legal funding to fight everything, and we're a city on a serious budget.

I've tried pointing out to these people that he hides behind first amendment legalese to protect his right to free speech, but then says he's not protesting when he's in direct violation of the picketing ordinances that disallow targeted picketing.







:

Argh.

Some people.


----------



## SunshineJ

I don't know if this has been suggested or not, but you know, why not write President Obama about this? Be sure to include how he's abusing the 1st amendment, how laws are being disregarded and ignored, and especially how this is having such a detrimental effect on the children. Also, include the governor's office on it. Will it get attention? Who knows, but hey it can't hurt to try can it?


----------



## Bleu

Oh my goodness, what a clusterfVck. I'm extremely sorry to hear this is happening. Talk about enraging!

I have two possibly useful thoughts: a possible legal argument is the unconstitutionality of "partial legislation", which means you cannot create a law meant to apply to just _one_ person, just _one_ company, just _one_ industry, just _one_ obscene truck-driving whack job... you get the idea. Laws must be for everyone, for the good common good. The trick is, I'm not sure whether there's precedent for using this argument about a judicial decision versus a law created by legislators. Even if no precedent exists, it's possible that some lawyer somewhere could re-apply this angle to overturn the federal judge's decision. (And does that mean - Supreme Court? Holy cow!)

Which brings me to possibly helpful thought #2. I think you might need to look for representation via <ahem> affiliation networking, not among general local attorneys. How about contacting (again) the legal dept. of the organization associated with the opposite point of view, and ask them to help you to find a lawyer who, far from avoiding this hot-button issue, seeks it out? Lawyers have friends... It may be that purely local lawyers aren't the best answer... you might need someone who can practice in your state, but who has the protection/independence of being geographically remote. If that doesn't work, ask around among similar organizations, public interest law groups, organizations who support related goals, etc. HTH.


----------



## Theoretica

Ok we have a small update. The organization being targeted by the truck has set up a website to collect pledges and funds from folks every time the truck makes a round, or a graphic image is displayed in the neighborhood or at the organization. In other words, the more the truck drives by, the more money is raised to fund the organization that the truck driver can't stand.

Me Likey







:

We also found out our area doesn't have an actual obscenity law, so there are folks working on drafting a petition to change that. This part will take time, but I think it's a solid option to put a stop to the imagery being forced on our homes.

Wish I could say more and give more detail, but I don't think I can without violating the UA.

Thanks for all the support, I really REALLY appreciate it! Feel free to share more ideas if you get them...it's been awesome sharing everyone's suggestions with the organization being targeted and brainstorming solutions!


----------



## lalemma

Quote:

The organization being targeted by the truck has set up a website to collect pledges and funds from folks every time the truck makes a round, or a graphic image is displayed in the neighborhood or at the organization. In other words, the more the truck drives by, the more money is raised to fund the organization that the truck driver can't stand.
I believe I know what you're talking about, and I just have to say that I find this hilarious. Great stuff.


----------



## txdancer

I know that you have looked for legal representation and have had no luck, but you really need to look for a partner at a BigLaw firm. These are the guys who take cases like this, not only because they have the staffs and interns and assistants to really fight it the way it needs to be fought, but also because they aren't afraid of losing their local client base. They also have the time to do large-scale pro bono work. They ca be hard to get in touch with, but the best way to do so is to look at who has fought cases in this area in the past and start calling, and writing letters, and emailing.


----------



## Seasons

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lalemma* 
I believe I know what you're talking about, and I just have to say that I find this hilarious. Great stuff.










Me too! I guessed what the images and organization were, and Googled to confirm. Kewl stuff.


----------

