# Forcing child to stay in stroller



## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

So yesterday I was in the park sitting on the bench watching my little one (22 months) run around and beside me was a mother with her little girl in a stroller. The girl was pretty zen, just sitting there, and it occurred to me that it was unusual that the child was not protesting being in the stroller just sitting there. I said to the mother, "Wow, you have a pretty tranquil toddler. How old is she?". The mother said that the girl was 15 months old. I was really surprised by this and said that there was NO WAY that my daughter at that age (or now) would have been willing to sit in her stroller and watch other children play. She said, "Yes, but that is because you did not train your baby to sit in the stroller. I have always made her stay in the stroller when we are anywhere busy like in the park with older kids because I don't want her to get hurt running around."

Now, I do impose some constraints on my child if I think that the consequences of an accident could be fatal or the risks are significant. For example, she has to stay in her carseat in the car no matter how much she screams to get out. But generally speaking, I am really really against not allowing children to move around. Forcing your baby to stay in a stroller to me sends a message that it is good to sit and be passive rather than do and be active. It creates lazy, passive children. And I couldn't help feeling so sorry for the girl. Eventually her mother let her out just to stand around the stroller but as soon as the girl started to move away (and keep in mind that we were already in a confined area), the mother started to put the girl back in the stroller and the little girl started to cry. So then the mother took her out again but let her move in an approximately 3 square foot area.

I don't even think the stroller is necessary in the streets most of the time for many toddlers. We use either baby carrier or stroller but no matter what, DD walks if she wants to. We live in an urban area (central Paris) but (so far) DD walks right by me, never strays. If she walks ahead, I say stop at the curb and she stops in her tracks. She is a pretty zen toddler and I realise that not all toddlers are like her so I am sure that for some, keeping them in the stroller is a real safety issue but I just see so many kids who are strapped into those chairs for no reason other than the parents don't have the patience or just can't be bothered to let their child walk and go at the child's (slower) pace.

Anyone else out there relate to my freedom of movement philosophy??


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

I have a really tranquil boy who often will sit in my lap or in his stroller for lengthy (for his age) periods, but if he wants to get down and it's safe, then I absolutely let him.

Was this woman with other (older) kids or something? I'm confused about why she'd bring the baby to the park if she was just going to make her stay in the stroller. I remember when my son was that age, though, was when we very first started going to parks, and I was really unsure of what to do and how much to let him wander on his own, so maybe that had something to do with it.

Despite my DS's tranquility when we're sitting somewhere, when we're walking he's all about walking on his own right now, and I almost always just plan extra time so that I can let him. I get lots of, "Wow, you're a patient mom!" comments, but I remember my mom always letting me explore and take my time on walks, and I want my son to have the same nice memories.


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## Finch (Mar 4, 2005)

Ugh. Forcing/training a child to sit in a stroller.







We had to work with ds to even be able to *tolerate* a stroller. And that was just for when we absolutely had to use one for whatever reason. Man. Yet another "that's why I carry/wear my kid" reason to add onto the pile.


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## Vicitoria (Dec 17, 2004)

It kind of seems to be the same way here in Germany. DS walks for the most part but most kids I see are still in strollers dazed or eating something. There are also VERY FEW toddler friendly playgrounds so there is nowhere for the little ones to play anyway. When I asked where I could find one it was explained that there are sandboxes in every playground for my almost 2yo son. I do believe it is simply socially acceptable to train your child or perhaps force your child to stay in a stroller here.


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## velveeta (May 30, 2002)

Wow! My 3 yo DS is not tranquil, zen, or calm. Nothing like that. He wants to run around! And it is so good for our family if he does. He gets nice and tired that way.

I feel very sad for that little girl. She is going to be very hesitant to take risks and try new things. Well, let's hope she doesn't turn out that way.


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## Past_VNE (Dec 13, 2003)

OT: Finch, I utterly adore your signature!

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I am horrified that a 15 month old is forced to sit in a stroller at the park. My son was rampaging around the playground at that age!! I feel sooo bad for that little girl and hope that tidbit of their lives is not descriptive of their whole 'way of being.'


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Past_VNE*
I hope that tidbit of their lives is not descriptive of their whole 'way of being.'

It sounds like in the OP's case, the woman explicitly stated that she "trained" her daughter to sit in the stroller from a young age, but I think the above quote is true, and important to remember.

I was at the park with my DS the other day and a woman came with her 3 kids, ages maybe 5, 3, and 2. She sat down and they started playing, and were doing some things that I felt warranted the mom stepping in. I felt myself getting a little annoyed at her, and then her daughter asked the mother to push her on the swing and the mom said, "I can't right now, remember?" and the daughter said, "Oh yeah." A few minutes later, a truck pulled up and one of the kids said, "Mommy, Daddy's here!" and the mom said, "Yeah, he's coming to help me" in kind of a weak voice. Clearly she was having some type of health issues, and I felt bad for judging her earlier. I'm going to keep her in mind in the future and try to have compassion before jumping to conclusions.


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

I have never trained ds, and I belive if that woman did thats awful. Maybe she subscribes to the pearls definition of discipline.

Ds sits very contently, tranquil and peacefully in his stroller, he loves it. At 8mths old, just yesterday we had a meeting in starbucks that lasted nearly 3hrs because we had so much fun talking. Most the time he was in his stroller just sitting quietly playing with his toys, he fussed when he wanted to be picked up or nurse. I got complimented by a group of women as they left about how well behaved he was and that theirs at that age would never have done that, and he just grinned his dimple filled smile at them.

I agree we need to take a minute before judging some parents, sometimes there are just times when that is the childs natural temperament or the mother isn't feeling well etc.


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## acystay (Aug 15, 2002)

Well, not that I have "trained" them to sit in a stroller, but I've trained them to ALWAYS buckle in. My neice (18 years ago) fell out of her stroller. My mom and I didn't think (I know stupid but we learned!) that she could get hurt and out she tumbled onto the sidewalk.

My friend never buckles her children in. My daughter gets upset when I have her do it b/c her friend is not, but I cannot have her falling out.

Anyway, I have really tried as well to stop judging other mommas. I know nothing of what they are experiencing at the time. I make it a point to lead by example when I am out w/ my children and hopefully some other momma will follow my lead.


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## NoHiddenFees (Mar 15, 2002)

I can't imagine forcing a child to always be in a stroller. I usually take one with me, and DD2 can get in and out if she pleases. However, if she runs away -- something she takes great delight in -- then she gets strapped in for awhile. There's no shaming, but she's told why, and occasionally she'll get a warning to "come back or I'll have to put you in the stroller." I get scared because she's a fast runner and an accomplished hider. The only time she's always buckled is in the grocery store and the only other time she must use it is when we cross the street. Fortunately, she's great about getting in to cross.

She's been running away less often, but I think that's more a function of maturity than "conditioning."


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## pianojazzgirl (Apr 6, 2006)

So sad that that little girl was not being allowed to explore the park









Depending on how far we have to go I like to let dd walk. I have no trouble slowing down to her (much slower!) pace and enjoying her explorations of every little thing. If it is a time when I know I won't have the patience, or if it's too far for her to manage I usually put her in the stroller (which she's fine with). I rarely "force" her into the stroller - pretty much only if it's matter of safety.


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## aira (Jun 16, 2004)

It's a real peeve of mine to see children forced into confinement. Or generally trained into it.

DS was never mellow, but when he was in the mood to chill the sling or wrap was a fine place to do it. I could count on one time the number of times DS has been in a stroller.

I see some vicious scenes around here of parents shoving their screaming kid into a stroller. Also there are many times we hear a child wailing at the top of his lungs all over a store for over an hour with the parents dutifully ignoring the tot.







I've had so many conversations with DS about this, since it really freaks him out to see or hear kids in such distress.


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## aira (Jun 16, 2004)

I also don't like forcing into or leaving crying kids in a carseat.

To me the issue of safety is a red herring. I don't see how the idea of auto safety somehow justifies jeopardizing a child's emotional safety. Neither of those things is expendable to me. My schedule is.

I have always stopped and held DS when he cries in the car. Mostly these days distraction will work, but I will never leave him crying and scared.

This idea is hotly debated, but I see it as CIO. From the child's perspective they don't care if they are left helpless in distress in a crib or a car.


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aira*
I also don't like forcing into or leaving crying kids in a carseat.

To me the issue of safety is a red herring. I don't see how the idea of auto safety somehow justifies jeopardizing a child's emotional safety. Neither of those things is expendable to me. My schedule is.

I have always stopped and held DS when he cries in the car. Mostly these days distraction will work, but I will never leave him crying and scared.

This idea is hotly debated, but I see it as CIO. From the child's perspective they don't care if they are left helpless in distress in a crib or a car.

I have left ds crying in his carseat, because safety and the road didnt afford us the time or conveniance to pick him up and calm him......BUT! I sit in the backseat with him since I can't drive anyway, and I try to comfort him in all other possible ways.


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## Finch (Mar 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Past_VNE*
OT: Finch, I utterly adore your signature!

---------

I am horrified that a 15 month old is forced to sit in a stroller at the park. My son was rampaging around the playground at that age!! I feel sooo bad for that little girl and hope that tidbit of their lives is not descriptive of their whole 'way of being.'









Lol, thanks.









My son will not sit in a stroller that is not *moving*. He is in a stroller when I take him for long walks or when we go out into the woods and he gets tired and wants to ride. If I'm in a place where I'm concerned for his safety (he won't hold hands, won't listen, is a runner....that whole autism thing again...), I wear him in the sling, ergo, or backpack. If he's screaming, I take him out and let him run a while.


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## straighthaircurly (Dec 17, 2005)

If I had more than one child to watch I would probably resort to the stroller confinement more, but I have always believed in letting my son move about as much as possible. When he didn't fit in the sling well anymore, we started just carrying him on our shoulders if we needed to keep a tighter hold on him at a store or in a parking lot. But I was afraid when we went to Costa Rica this winter that he would dart in front of a car (the street we live on there is VERY busy) so I actually bought one of those harnesses for kids. Fortunately I didn't need it. When we got there something clicked in his head and he never once even considered crossing the street without his hand in mine. He even started saying "da me su mano" (give me your hand). He was 2.5 yo at the time.

I have a friend though who has 4 kids ages 5 and under. For safety they have to be confined to a stroller until they reach the age where they follow directions well (usually about 3 yo). Of course if they are in a confined playground area and there are extra friends to help watch she let's the younger ones loose. I mostly feel bad for that little girl that her mom is SO afraid she might get hurt just playing like normal kids. Kids need to run and jump and fall a little when they are young and close to the ground. Otherwise, IMO, they are much more likely to get hurt later on (they won't have a good understanding of how their body works and what their limitations are)


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## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

Glad I am not the only one who thinks this way. I should clarify, yes the mom had another older child there (4-year old boy), who was playing. The equipment was great for very small children but there were also bigger kids there - 4 and 5 year olds. In that situation when DD was under 18 months (and even now) I just generally watched DD vigilantly to make sure that she was not being disturbed by older children (it is not like this mother had anything else to do and no, she had no physical incapacities).

Re the carseat, yes I agree that letting a child cry in the car seat is a form of CIO. For us, the issue comes up on the highway as we don't use the car much in the city. I try to sit in the back seat with DD as much as possible and do anything to prevent the crying but if she cries, I don't feel like I can take her out of the carseat in that situation. We try to stop at gas stations as much as possible.

DD used to be in the baby carrier most of the time but recently loves the stroller, not for riding in it but for pushing it.









I have a lot of friends whose children are completely content in the baby carrier or stroller and mine just wants to walk so much that it is very difficult when we are together. DD is of course walking behind us or pushing her stroller at a very slow pace and inevitably the friend says "Can't you just put her in the stroller?" My responses is that I am reluctant to do so if she really wants to walk. I think, funnily enough, that I have basically "trained" DD to walk all the time in the same way that other mothers have "trained" their children to stay in the stroller all the time.


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## aira (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:

DD used to be in the baby carrier most of the time but recently loves the stroller, not for riding in it but for pushing it.
Mine too. He pushes it about 2 feet, and then flips it over to spin the wheels.









That's the most use it's gotten.

I never bring it anywhere b/c it's more of a hinderance than a help. But god save us when he decides to flip over someone else's stroller and investigate their wheels...







That gets interesting.


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

I can't imagine training a child to sit in a stroller. That being said my dd's loved, loved, loved their stroller. My youngest would often stay in at the park when she was under two, if she was tired and her sisters still wanted to run around.

That being said, and while I did not like having a child crying in their car seat, for us that was sometimes not avoidable. There were other children whose needs were involved. My oldest was in preschool two hours per day, three days per week, which is something she simply adored. And she needed to be picked up so like it or not the other two had to be strapped into their car seats! Most of the time they did not mind, but when they did...oh well we had to go anyway!

When it is not "your schedule" but rather the schedule of other children, life is just different.


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## Mama Poot (Jun 12, 2006)

When my 10 month old is in a stroller, he is only happy for a short time, but he gets fussy, uncomfortable, and will start grabbing anything around him- clothing from racks or on people, breakable items at Bombay







: , and it goes on. I realized that the sling was the best place for him, and that for him to be happy and also to have the freedom of movement a baby his age needs, that slinging him and then letting him go when he wants to go is much better for everyone involved. I get dirty looks from people when I take him out and then let him crawl around. They think he should be all strapped down in a stroller or infant seat.







: That is really sad that the little girl you saw had been "trained" like an animal to just sit there and be a good little robot.


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## mmfoote (Mar 6, 2006)

Quote:

The equipment was great for very small children but there were also bigger kids there - 4 and 5 year olds. In that situation when DD was under 18 months (and even now) I just generally watched DD vigilantly to make sure that she was not being disturbed by older children (it is not like this mother had anything else to do and no, she had no physical incapacities).
When I am worried about DS on the playground, I just tag along with him! It was pretty tough sometimes climbing and bending around those little playsets at the park with a pregnant belly,but,hey, I got some exercise too! And, yeah, what else did I have to do?

DS1 is very good at walking along the street with me and most of the time, I let him walk. My husband gets very nervous about it and sometimes, I let his fears creep in to my head. Then DS and I start having struggles and I remind myself to trust him. I don't make him hold my hand when we're walking on the sidewalk most of the time, only to cross streets and along very busy roads. But most of the time, he will look ahead and say "street!" and hold my hand on his own. Sometimes, the street is like 8 houses away! That's Ok with me because a) I like holding his hand! and b) he is recognizing possible safety hazards himself. Sometimes, he'll even yank me closer to the middle of the sidewalk, saying, "Mama, too close - street!"

It may be different for us though because he absolutely refused to sit in his stroller for more than 5 minutes until he was 19mos old. Until then, we wore or carried him.

Quote:

Re the carseat, yes I agree that letting a child cry in the car seat is a form of CIO. For us, the issue comes up on the highway as we don't use the car much in the city
I agree with this too. My parents live about 30 minutes away, and there are many times when we have had to pull over for DS2. I just try to make it fun dor DS1 by telling stories or singing songs. And since we live in the downtown section of a small city, we just try to walk whenever we can!


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## slacker_mom (Mar 30, 2005)

I feel for that little girl! My daughter's personality and development are so tied into her ability to move; I can't imagine keeping her regularly confined like that.

I had to force DD to sit in a stroller on errands for a few months after I broke my ankle. I couldn't keep up with her when she ran, or carry her when she got tired. It was rough on both of us. I hadn't really used one much before that (DD loves to walk/run/jump), and I've fazed it out as my ankle has healed and DD has gotten better and sticking to some basic safety rules (staying on the sidewalk, holding hands or being carried across streets, slowing down when I ask her to, not approaching dogs on her own, etc). I will occasionally still use it if I am feeling too run down to cope with the situation. Every once in a while I think it's better to have her be frustrated with being in the stroller than to have me be frustrated with trying to corral her.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maya44*
When it is not "your schedule" but rather the schedule of other children, life is just different.

So true! DD and ds2 had a rough week last week, because ds1's schedule ended up being imposed on the whole family (naturally) and ds1 has been attending appointments for a broken bone in his hand. Since the doctors and clinics can't change their schedule to accommodate us, we have to make sure we're there on time - ensuring that ds1's hand heals properly is important!

But, I do try to work with my kids with respect to scheduling. I have to stop and think sometimes about whether I really _have_ to do x, y or z right now - can it wait until dh gets home? Can I do it differently (eg. walk to the corner store for the milk I need _now_ and buy the other stuff later if dd wants to walk and doesn't want to get in her seat)? Little changes help me a lot sometimes.

I can't imagine trying to keep dd in her stroller at 15 months. I can't really imagine wanting to, either. Kids need to run! DS2 is still in his stroller (or the Ergo), but once he's walking, I'll take the stroller (or Ergo) with me to the playground, so I have recourse when little legs get tired, but he can toddle around all he wants once we're there!


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## PatchyMama (Dec 6, 2002)

How said that that baby couldnt get out and play at the park







I have a 5 year old and an 18 month old and when we go to the park they both run around and play. Its a bit of a stressor for me tho its getting easier now that the 5 year old is getting older, but its worth it for them to have fun and get some excercize.

I think its a said situation all together, but I dont think its something that automatically makes strollers bad. We use a stroller on occassion. I am a HUGE babywearer, but unfortunately my 18 month old has other plans lately and hates to be worn







My dh works very long hours and only gets one day off at a time.... I am forced to do most of the errand running on my own with both of them. As much as I hate it sometimes I do have to keep dd2 strapped into the cart or stroller because I can't have her and the 5 year old running around willy nilly at the grocery store, its just not logical for me. Trips to the grocery store are stressful enough as it is, I dont know how people with more children do it







When dh is out with us its an entirely different story tho and they both get freedom if they ask for it


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Pushing a stroller through a PARK, of all places...where a kid can see other kids playing & he can't...seems kind'a mean to me...


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## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

Quote:

As much as I hate it sometimes I do have to keep dd2 strapped into the cart or stroller because I can't have her and the 5 year old running around willy nilly at the grocery store, its just not logical for me. Trips to the grocery store are stressful enough as it is, I dont know how people with more children do it
I think that it is totally reasonable to want your 18-month old to stay confined in this situation. We put our 22-month old in the shopping cart when we go grocery shopping (which she actually enjoys







). It's the whole idea of "training" a toddler to sit in a stroller passively all the time without complaining seems just cruel to me.


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## pianojazzgirl (Apr 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmlp*
It's the whole idea of "training" a toddler to sit in a stroller passively all the time without complaining seems just cruel to me.

ITA. I just can't see why a kid would have to "get used" to being strapped into a stroller at the park, watching all the other kids playing.


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## Brigianna (Mar 13, 2006)

So are you objecting to the fact that she apparently keeps her baby in the stroller for long periods of time, not letting her get out and play, or that she taught her to stay in the stroller when put there? I sort of agree with you, but I agree with the other mother too--public parks aren't always safe places for toddlers. And I did teach my kids to stay in the stroller because I didn't want them to fall out and bonk their heads.


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## SparklyMoose (Feb 13, 2005)

My husband and I both have back problems, so the stroller has been a godsend for us as far as getting places. However, since my son started to be able to walk, when he wants to, we'll walk with him. (He's 14 months today.) He's allowed to play on the big kid equipment--he adores the slides, even the tallest twisty ones--with supervision. And I try not to helicopter unless there are a lot of bigger kids there. I don't understand why you'd take a toddler to the park and then expect them not to play. Seems odd to me.

Although if I trained my kid to sit in his stroller without protest all the time, perhaps his little legs wouldn't look like someone had been at him with a baseball bat.







Between his insistence on crawling on pavement, and the constant falling as he learns to walk, he's a mess! Frankly, I think some bruises and a skinned knee are worth it, since he's very independent, and I'm thrilled that he is.

I will admit that we are planning to purchase a harness for him when he's truly walking on his own all the time. I'd rather have my child safe than not. I can see with him, just as was the case with my little sister, that he'll take off, and he'll be fast. I know a lot of folks here are anti-harness, but assuming it's not an upsetting thing to him, I personally think they're a helpful tool.

Brigianna: I expect my son to stay seated in the stroller while we're walking, and if we need him sitting there for reasons of his safety. He gets strapped in so he doesn't hurt himself (otherwise, he'd monkey his way right out







). If you're worried about the safety of the park, and aren't willing to supervise up close, why take the child to the park to begin with? I can't speak for the OP, but my objection is the training the child to be docile and not participate, versus having an expectation that, when the stroller is needed, that the child won't try to escape and possibly hurt herself.


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## pianojazzgirl (Apr 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SparklyMoose*
Brigianna: I expect my son to stay seated in the stroller while we're walking, and if we need him sitting there for reasons of his safety. He gets strapped in so he doesn't hurt himself (otherwise, he'd monkey his way right out







). *If you're worried about the safety of the park, and aren't willing to supervise up close, why take the child to the park to begin with?* I can't speak for the OP, but my objection is the training the child to be docile and not participate, versus having an expectation that, when the stroller is needed, that the child won't try to escape and possibly hurt herself.









:

From the original post it sounded to me like the mom just didn't want to be bothered helping her dc explore the playground safely, so she kept her confined to the stroller. It sounded like the mom wanted her dd to learn that her objections to being put in the stroller would not be heard/responded to. It seems almost cruel to bring the kiddo to the exciting world of the park and then "teach" her that however much she wants to get down to check it out she won't be allowed to.


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## Zach'smom (Nov 5, 2004)

Maybe the daughter had medical problems and getting knocked down or falling on hard ground could be an issue. Maybe she had a heart condition or hemophilla or a bone condition. Maybe the Mom had medical problems and couldn't run to catch her daughter and save her from a dangerous situation. There might be a completely logical reason she is worried she will get hurt running around.

Or maybe Mom is just lazy.

We should try not to judge when we don't have all the facts.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

It really sounds like this was a control issue from the mother, based on what she told you...


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## aira (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Zach'smom*
Maybe the daughter had medical problems and getting knocked down or falling on hard ground could be an issue. Maybe she had a heart condition or hemophilla or a bone condition. Maybe the Mom had medical problems and couldn't run to catch her daughter and save her from a dangerous situation. There might be a completely logical reason she is worried she will get hurt running around.

Or maybe Mom is just lazy.

We should try not to judge when we don't have all the facts.









If this were the case, then the mom wouldn't have spoken as though it were a deficiency in the OP's parenting...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmlp*
She said, "Yes, but that is because you did not train your baby to sit in the stroller. I have always made her stay in the stroller when we are anywhere busy like in the park with older kids because I don't want her to get hurt running around."

That makes her reasons pretty clear.


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## Zach'smom (Nov 5, 2004)

Mom may have trained her to stay in the stroller when they are in the park with older kids running around because of her medical condition.

Maybe Mom didn't give you more details because she had been asked that 10 other times that week and was in a bad mood. Maybe she didn't think it was any of your business.

Maybe she is just a bad Mom.

I don't think her reasons are clear at all.
Lets not be so quick to judge.


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## edamommy (Apr 6, 2004)

I've seen situations like that. My dh's former employer often had cook-outs and parties for families and there was this one couple w/ a child whom was about 15 months when we first met him and honestly, in like 10 different get-togethers, we NEVER saw the child out of th stroller. He just sat there zombie like. And, the mother was aksed how he sat so "good" for so long and she responded that "it wasn't easy to get him to be like that..."? what the heck?

i always felt a little sad for him as he watched my ds (who was a bit younger) running free and having a blast...


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## Brigianna (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SparklyMoose*
My husband and I both have back problems, so the stroller has been a godsend for us as far as getting places. However, since my son started to be able to walk, when he wants to, we'll walk with him. (He's 14 months today.) He's allowed to play on the big kid equipment--he adores the slides, even the tallest twisty ones--with supervision. And I try not to helicopter unless there are a lot of bigger kids there. I don't understand why you'd take a toddler to the park and then expect them not to play. Seems odd to me.

Although if I trained my kid to sit in his stroller without protest all the time, perhaps his little legs wouldn't look like someone had been at him with a baseball bat.







Between his insistence on crawling on pavement, and the constant falling as he learns to walk, he's a mess! Frankly, I think some bruises and a skinned knee are worth it, since he's very independent, and I'm thrilled that he is.

I will admit that we are planning to purchase a harness for him when he's truly walking on his own all the time. I'd rather have my child safe than not. I can see with him, just as was the case with my little sister, that he'll take off, and he'll be fast. I know a lot of folks here are anti-harness, but assuming it's not an upsetting thing to him, I personally think they're a helpful tool.

Brigianna: I expect my son to stay seated in the stroller while we're walking, and if we need him sitting there for reasons of his safety. He gets strapped in so he doesn't hurt himself (otherwise, he'd monkey his way right out







). If you're worried about the safety of the park, and aren't willing to supervise up close, why take the child to the park to begin with? I can't speak for the OP, but my objection is the training the child to be docile and not participate, versus having an expectation that, when the stroller is needed, that the child won't try to escape and possibly hurt herself.


I assume or would guess that the woman described in the op had older kids who were playing, and that's why she was at the park. Otherwise it doesn't make much sense. But I don't see how training a child not to climb out of the stroller necessarily equates to training her to be docile and not participate? I mean, the mother did let her get out and walk around a small area when she cried, so she was not being ignored or made to cio in the stroller. I sometimes see parents out with babies in strollers or infant seats, and the baby is fussing or even screaming, and the parents totally ignore it. But in this case the baby was content in the stroller, so I don't think it's comparable.

I was at the park last week with my two kids and my 11-month-old baby cousin, who was in his stroller. I certainly didn't let him have "freedom of movement" in that unsafe place. He wasn't in the stroller the whole time; I did take him out and hold him on my lap for awhile, and I was talking to him and keeping him well entertained, but I wasn't going to put him down on the ground. I was supervising two other children and wasn't going to take the risk that the one second I turned away would be the second he chose to pick up a sharp object or swallow something dangerous. Parks are meant for older children to roam free, not babies.


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## Nora'sMama (Apr 8, 2005)

I don't know - DD loves the playground and would have been terribly sad and confused if at 11 months old I had taken her there and made her watch the other kids from her stroller.







I understand that when watching 3 kids it is difficult to keep an eye on them all, but the 10 month old is probably not moving very fast and can easily be scooped up, so I don't see why they need to be in a stroller. At a park I go to frequently with DD there is a woman who brings her own 2-yo and also the 2 other toddlers that she babysits - very active kids to say the least. She is also pregnant. And she somehow keeps track of all of them, so I know it can be done. Maybe it's just that I know my DD would NEVER have stood for it, but I can't imagine most older babies or young toddlers would be content to remain strapped into a stroller while watching all the older kids play on the equipment. To me, the park is TOTALLY a place for babies to 'roam free'! The nice part is that at that age they don't roam very fast.









Also, I was thinking of the time that I took DD and her (fast-running







) friend to the park...DD was not walking yet...if the little boy took off running (which happened several times) I just picked her up and went to get him, nothing simpler. I never had to set her down or turn my back on either of them. Of course, with 3 kids it's more complicated. But IMO it's not a reason to keep the youngest in a stroller.

ETA I guess I'm just kinda surprised that a park/playground would be described as a 'dangerous place', so dangerous that a baby couldn't get out of their stroller...what kind of park are you going to?? I'm seriously curious! Yes, there is nasty stuff in the sand or wood chips that the little ones love to mouth, but I guess I don't see the big danger in letting a baby explore a little. It's the bigger kids that I'd worry about since they are the ones I see doing daredevil maneuvers on the equipment...


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## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

It is so hard to judge from just a few minutes interaction. If someone had seen me last week, I would have been the worst parent on earth. I made dd (14 mos) leave the play area (screaming) because it was a new play area and I felt that the children were a little too old and rough for her to play with. Usually I do the 5 more minutes thing but I was about to kill one of the parents and I thought leaving would be less traumatic then a mother in jail. The next day, we went out for lunch and dd would *not* go in her car seat when we left. I held her for about ten minutes and then tried again, still screamed. So I carried dd in the 95 degree heat to a coffee shop across the street to have coffee and some cuddle time before trying again. The employees of the coffee shop went nuts thinking my car broke down until I explained, no dd would not get in her carseat. The employees (all with small kids) smiled knowingly. Then I tried to get dd in her carseat again. Still screamed. This time I persisted since it was a full 90 minutes after I left lunch and it was still 95 degrees. Dd was asleep before I left the parking lot.

If an outsider saw some point of the lunch time interaction, they might have thought I just forced dd into the car with no thought to her state of mind. Nothing was further then the truth but that is what it might look like from some small snapshot of my day.

I completely agree that parents should encourage their children's growth and that keeping them in strollers is not the best way to do it. I also agree that there are a lot of parents that throw their kids in strollers because it is easy. Just don't think too poorly of that particular mother because she might just have had a bad day. -And if you were outside corner bakery last week and saw the blonde screamer, I tried, really!


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## Nora'sMama (Apr 8, 2005)

lalaland, that's a great point. I had almost the identical interaction w/ my DD re the carseat last week...a couple of times! I always am so patient w/ her and don't force it, I'll take her out and play, nurse, whatever until she feels better about the carseat, but sometimes circumstances require that she be in it sooner than she'd like and I just sing really loud to her, try to make a game of it, and strap her in and go...and she is usually quiet as soon as I start the engine and snoring within minutes! But to the outside observer I either look like a crazy mom who won't just PUT her dd in the carseat, or an impatient mom who puts her in too fast! Since I doubt most people are going to sit there for as long as the whole interaction takes.







I certainly wouldn't judge a mom at a playground if I saw she had a kid in a stroller - as long as the kid was happy and being otherwise attended to. I just disagreed (tentatively?) with the idea that multiple kids means you HAVE to leave the baby in the stroller.

(On another note, I do sometimes see interactions between parents and kids on the playground which are harder to ignore. Last week a mom was yelling at her son to quit using a stick as a sword - why, I don't know, 'cause he wasn't hitting anyone with it, just doing some pretend play with another child - and when he wouldn't, she broke it.







He was about 4 and he started crying and saying "you broke it! you BROKE my SWORD! Poor, poor sword...why did you have to break it..." - it about broke my heart for the poor kid. Maybe she was having a bad day, but she was pretty mean IMO and I left soonafter, it just left a bad taste in my mouth to see that.)


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## faithnj (Dec 19, 2004)

I wish more people would concentrate on what it is they want to do with their own particular child/children, and less on what others are doing with theirs. It's fairly obvious that distastful or not-- a wide variety or parents and parenting practices are going on in this world, and they don't all end with the creation of pyromanics and mass murderers. In fact, many of the people posting here weren't parented in the way the find "ideal" today. Most of us were in strollers and in playpens. And some of us were reared GD, and still don't think our parents did a good job. The truth is, we all have enough on our own plates with our own kids, and we don't know what most other people are going through, and if we aren't going to hand them a book or some advice, (not that most other parents take advice from friends or strangers, anyway,) it's best to focus on our own screaming, hitting, biting, non-pottying, sword and gun playing bundles of joy. *After all, just as we don't like how other people are parenting.....often they don't like how we parent either. The criticism can flow both ways.*
Faith


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## Brigianna (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nora'sMama*
I don't know - DD loves the playground and would have been terribly sad and confused if at 11 months old I had taken her there and made her watch the other kids from her stroller.







I understand that when watching 3 kids it is difficult to keep an eye on them all, but the 10 month old is probably not moving very fast and can easily be scooped up, so I don't see why they need to be in a stroller. At a park I go to frequently with DD there is a woman who brings her own 2-yo and also the 2 other toddlers that she babysits - very active kids to say the least. She is also pregnant. And she somehow keeps track of all of them, so I know it can be done. Maybe it's just that I know my DD would NEVER have stood for it, but I can't imagine most older babies or young toddlers would be content to remain strapped into a stroller while watching all the older kids play on the equipment. To me, the park is TOTALLY a place for babies to 'roam free'! The nice part is that at that age they don't roam very fast.









Also, I was thinking of the time that I took DD and her (fast-running







) friend to the park...DD was not walking yet...if the little boy took off running (which happened several times) I just picked her up and went to get him, nothing simpler. I never had to set her down or turn my back on either of them. Of course, with 3 kids it's more complicated. But IMO it's not a reason to keep the youngest in a stroller.

ETA I guess I'm just kinda surprised that a park/playground would be described as a 'dangerous place', so dangerous that a baby couldn't get out of their stroller...what kind of park are you going to?? I'm seriously curious! Yes, there is nasty stuff in the sand or wood chips that the little ones love to mouth, but I guess I don't see the big danger in letting a baby explore a little. It's the bigger kids that I'd worry about since they are the ones I see doing daredevil maneuvers on the equipment...


Well, every kid is different, and every park is different, too. The one we went to had debris and stuff on the ground; it wasn't very safe. There's another park we go to that's better, but I still wouldn't put a pre-walking baby down on the ground. I'm not saying that I have to use the stroller; obviously plenty of people don't, but personally I would not want a pre-walking baby crawling around the ground of a public park. Which is not a criticism of those who do, just that I wouldn't. He doesn't mind sitting in the stroller as long as he has something to do and he's close to me. And apparently the baby in the op didn't mind either, which was my point--the baby was sitting calmly, not upset, not crying, not being ignored, so what is the problem?


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## katallen (Jan 4, 2005)

Maybe she had several kids to watch and couldn't let them all run in other directions for the sake of their safety and her sanity. Perhaps she doesn't have the energy to look after several kids and constantly redirect a child to stay with the family group and teaching her daughter to sit in the stroller at times was a solution that helps her to be a patient and loving mother instead of an overstressed monster. She didn't say that she never lets her kids out of the stroller or that they always stay in no matter where they go and never get to explore. She trained her child to stay in the stroller until she is let out, because she feels it is necessary for her child's safety. Maybe she say a kid run over or has heard to many horror stories to take a chance. I don't see what the big deal is since her situation and parenting skills beyond this are totally unknown. Why not give her the benefit of the doubt?


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## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

Just a few points:

- she had ONE other kid to watch (as mentioned in previous post), a 4-year old boy who, incidentally, was perfectly happy to play with his little sister

- the girl was 15 months old and walking well (in the 3 square foot perimetre that she was allowed to walk in, that is

- the park was a corralled-in area with equipment suited to very small children. My 22 month old was easily going on everything. There were, however, some 3-5 year olds there, too.

- The park was completely clean and otherwise safe

- The mother said that she purposely "trained" her toddler to sit passively in her stroller, staring at the world like a zombie, with no interaction with anyone, so that she (the mother) did not have to watch her daughter while she played around big kids.







: Poor baby.


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## Brigianna (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmlp*
Just a few points:

- she had ONE other kid to watch (as mentioned in previous post), a 4-year old boy who, incidentally, was perfectly happy to play with his little sister

- the girl was 15 months old and walking well (in the 3 square foot perimetre that she was allowed to walk in, that is

- the park was a corralled-in area with equipment suited to very small children. My 22 month old was easily going on everything. There were, however, some 3-5 year olds there, too.

- The park was completely clean and otherwise safe

- The mother said that she purposely "trained" her toddler to sit passively in her stroller, staring at the world like a zombie, with no interaction with anyone, so that she (the mother) did not have to watch her daughter while she played around big kids.







: Poor baby.

Okay, she didn't "have to" use the stroller, but if baby was content, I still fail to see the harm? The baby was not crying or unhappy, not being ignored or left to cio, so why is it a problem? I don't know what you mean by "trained her to sit passively." I have trained/taught my kids not to stay seated in the stroller and not climb out, but that doesn't make them passive or zombie-like. I would guess that the child was just naturally like that, because I don't see how zombie-like passivity could be trained or taught.


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## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brigianna*
Okay, she didn't "have to" use the stroller, but if baby was content, I still fail to see the harm? The baby was not crying or unhappy, not being ignored or left to cio, so why is it a problem?

The problem is that the reason that the baby was content was because she had been "trained" to be such. When I told the mother that my DD would have a fit if I made her sit in the stroller like that at that age, the mother said to me "yes, but you did not 'train' your daughter. Mine was like that too but I forced her to stay in the stroller so that now she is used to it and does not mind it anymore."** This mother has transformed a normal, curious toddler into a passive zombie, oblivious to all happening around her, content to sit bored in her stroller. The whole thing totally creeps me out, quite frankly.







:

** And let's not forget that this "training" is basically a form of CIO. Even worse, in my mind, than nighttime CIO because at least with nighttime CIO, parents who use it can say in the end "well, now I have a baby who happily goes to bed and sleeps X hours a night". With stay-in-the-stroller CIO, the result is just to remove all curiousity and desire to explore that is naturally present in a toddler. What benefit is that?


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## Zach'smom (Nov 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmlp*
Just a few points:

- she had ONE other kid to watch (as mentioned in previous post), a 4-year old boy who, incidentally, was perfectly happy to play with his little sister

- the girl was 15 months old and walking well (in the 3 square foot perimetre that she was allowed to walk in, that is

- the park was a corralled-in area with equipment suited to very small children. My 22 month old was easily going on everything. There were, however, some 3-5 year olds there, too.

- The park was completely clean and otherwise safe

- The mother said that she purposely "trained" her toddler to sit passively in her stroller, staring at the world like a zombie, with no interaction with anyone, so that she (the mother) did not have to watch her daughter while she played around big kids.







: Poor baby.

She must be a horrible mom. Now the rest of us can pat ourselves on the back for being perfect.


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## Brigianna (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmlp*
The problem is that the reason that the baby was content was because she had been "trained" to be such. When I told the mother that my DD would have a fit if I made her sit in the stroller like that at that age, the mother said to me "yes, but you did not 'train' your daughter. Mine was like that too but I forced her to stay in the stroller so that now she is used to it and does not mind it anymore."** This mother has transformed a normal, curious toddler into a passive zombie, oblivious to all happening around her, content to sit bored in her stroller. The whole thing totally creeps me out, quite frankly.







:

** And let's not forget that this "training" is basically a form of CIO. Even worse, in my mind, than nighttime CIO because at least with nighttime CIO, parents who use it can say in the end "well, now I have a baby who happily goes to bed and sleeps X hours a night". With stay-in-the-stroller CIO, the result is just to remove all curiousity and desire to explore that is naturally present in a toddler. What benefit is that?

Okay, I didn't realize you were talking about a cio type of training. I agree that is wrong.


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## katallen (Jan 4, 2005)

I still don't see what is so wrong about learning to sit passively in certain situations even if it does involve a little fuss at first. Nor do we know that she never gets to explore. There are times when mobility needs to be limited and teaching children to accept that from a young age doesn't necessarily cause them to not explore and it doesn't mean that this woman didn't talk them through it with loving and comforting words, none of us were there when she taught her child to sit calmly in the stroller. My dd is happy to hold my hand or ride in the stroller because those are the options available to her and she still has a lot of time to explore in areas where I feel she is safe.


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## Vicitoria (Dec 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *katallen*
I still don't see what is so wrong about learning to sit passively in certain situations even if it does involve a little fuss at first. Nor do we know that she never gets to explore. There are times when mobility needs to be limited and teaching children to accept that from a young age doesn't necessarily cause them to not explore and it doesn't mean that this woman didn't talk them through it with loving and comforting words, none of us were there when she taught her child to sit calmly in the stroller. My dd is happy to hold my hand or ride in the stroller because those are the options available to her and she still has a lot of time to explore in areas where I feel she is safe.

I agree with this. The OP is in Central Paris. I'm in Dusseldorf Germany. These are cities with many people. Public transportation is used a lot and walking to do many things is very common. It's not like you take dc from house to car to shopping cart to car to home. We were almost strollerless when we got here when ds was 16 months but he HAD to learn to ride in it again for simple practical reasons. His safety and life goes on. If I have to walk to the grocery store It's a lot easier if I don't have to hold ds's hand or pick him up if he's tired - not to mention carrying groceries. DS also has to sit in the stroller once a day while we walk the dog. The dog HAS to poop. If we spend our walk following a two year old on foot it doesn't always happen. Everybody has their turn. That's life. When it's DS's turn it's a wild adventure sometimes!

It's a balance.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmlp*
"Yes, but that is because you did not train your baby to sit in the stroller. I have always made her stay in the stroller when we are anywhere busy like in the park with older kids because I don't want her to get hurt running around."


Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmlp*
The mother said that she purposely "trained" her toddler to sit passively in her stroller, staring at the world like a zombie, with no interaction with anyone, so that she (the mother) did not have to watch her daughter while she played around big kids.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmlp*
"yes, but you did not 'train' your daughter. Mine was like that too but I forced her to stay in the stroller so that now she is used to it and does not mind it anymore."

Sorry, but what did the mother actually say? The first quote sounds the most reasonable, if not the choice many of us would make while at a park. I'm sure the second one is mostly exaggerated frustration on the OP's part, which I understand. The third one, while somewhat similar to the first, is rather different in tone, and I'm having a hard time picturing a mother actually saying that (using words like "forced") as a way of defending her parenting choice.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

In the mall, she had to sit, or be carried. She rarely had the freedom to walk through the mall. But, in a store, she could walk around.

At Disneyland, she stayed in the stroller.

At Costco, she stayed in the cart.

But, those are all busy bustling places. She WOULD have gotten knocked down. Which would make her cry....excessively, then she would talk about it for days. Drama.

But, in the appropriate place. (like a park) she could walk, run, climb...whatever her little heart wanted. It was my job to follow her around and catch her if need be, or let her fall, and hopefully learn.


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## Brigianna (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *katallen*
I still don't see what is so wrong about learning to sit passively in certain situations even if it does involve a little fuss at first. Nor do we know that she never gets to explore. There are times when mobility needs to be limited and teaching children to accept that from a young age doesn't necessarily cause them to not explore and it doesn't mean that this woman didn't talk them through it with loving and comforting words, none of us were there when she taught her child to sit calmly in the stroller. My dd is happy to hold my hand or ride in the stroller because those are the options available to her and she still has a lot of time to explore in areas where I feel she is safe.

I agree with you, but that's not the same thing as forcing a child into a stroller and leaving her to cry, which is what this woman apparently admitted to doing.


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## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

Just to clarify, the women specifically said that her daughter "used to be like" mine (I had said that mine would "have a fit") when forced to stay in the stroller but that she had "trained" her daughter and now she "was used to it". Those were her words.


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