# Some people shouldn't have children



## Brojakee (Jul 14, 2006)

I was in the grocery store today and i walked by the bathroom, there was a cart with a infant, and a toddler all alone. The infant was propped in the cart with some kind of small pillow thing, and the toddler was in the bottom part. The infant was around 4 months i would guess, and toddler around 18 months. There was NOONE around. I kind of paniced, so i stood there and waited, and waited, and waited. I waited 20 minutes! Finally a lady comes out of the bathroom and said to me "Why are you staring at my kids"







: I said because you left very small children here for at least 20 minutes, they could have easily been kidnapped or hurt, or worse!" She said "You are a f'ing idiot" and walked off!

I can't even imagine doing that! Oh and i don't live in a small town, i live in a HUGGGGGGGGGEee town!!! Those poor kids....







:


----------



## Hera (Feb 4, 2002)

Wow. She should be thanking you for not calling security! Sheesh.


----------



## MommytoB (Jan 18, 2006)

OMG she left her two kids alone in a cart to go the bathroom that would be something I would never do! I had even taken taxi's and had to carry car seats and then if I had to go to the bathroom -and I didn't bring a stroller with me i would put my non walkable baby on my lap while I was using the toilet I couldn't bear to put a child that age on the dirty floor! I would have reported it to the customer service which would have proably said -there's no worries the mom is proably around until the kids ended up actually missing is when the worries of the stores would start in etc!


----------



## Meg Murry. (Sep 3, 2006)

Yeah, and if the kid(s) fell out of the cart, what do you want to bet that the _store_ would be legally liable?


----------



## mothragirl (Sep 10, 2005)

i would call the police over something like that


----------



## kittygrrl523 (May 27, 2006)

that is infuriating!!!

it makes me sad that there are so many people who want kids so badly and can't have them, and then some idiot has two wonderful little babies and leaves them alone in a shopping cart! ahhhhhhh


----------



## NicoleWisconsin (Apr 3, 2004)

OMG.

This fall, I had to go to a party supply store. There was a car parked at the entrance of the store, running, and both passenger side doors were open. There were two children in the car and when I entered the store, there was a woman checking out and then she got in the car. When I saw the car, I wanted so badly to jump in and do a lap around the parking lot.


----------



## Tilia (Nov 18, 2006)

Call the police!!! Or, at the VERY least, call security or a manager. Don't worry about being yelled at by someone. The person is in the wrong, not you!

I think we as American's need to learn to call the authorities ANYTIME we see something out of the ordinary. Better safe than sorry. I would rather call the police and have them check something out and me be wrong about it, than something horrid happening to a child!


----------



## ColeysMama (Apr 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mothragirl* 
i would call the police over something like that









:

I would have IMMEDIATELY notified security. That's child endangerment; it's freaking illegal, not to mention dangerous. She could lose her kids over something like that.


----------



## 425lisamarie (Mar 4, 2005)

I'm sure if that were a true story and you have not exaggerated at all, any mindful person would notify some kind of authority at the least.

I would probably assume the mother had a medical emergency or fell over dead or got flushed down the toilet or something. I mean, a minute is stupidity to leave a child, but 20 whole minutes...as in actually watching your clock for 20 minutes....is different.


----------



## teacup (Nov 12, 2005)

It's completely messed up that she left her kids alone, period, let alone for that long and in such a dangerous way. It hurts me more, however, that she spoke that way. She is obviously really, really angry and I fear for her children.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom2005* 
I think we as American's need to learn to call the authorities ANYTIME we see something out of the ordinary.

I'm curious what being an American has to do with this?


----------



## EMAID (May 23, 2006)

I shop in military commissaries, and if that had happened there, the police would have been called by the employees. That lady would have been in serious trouble. Heck, on a base, you can't even leave a PACKAGE unattended!


----------



## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

Quote:

or got flushed down the toilet


----------



## rabrog (Dec 20, 2005)

Next time you see something like that, call security immediately and then call the cops, also. That's neglect, pure and simple.

Jenn


----------



## terrordactyl (Jul 19, 2006)

those poor kids


----------



## Cutie Patootie (Feb 29, 2004)

So...I'm thinking after 5 minutes I would have gotten the attention of an employee and had the police called. Just curious







but why after 15 minutes didn't you call it to someone's attention? So sad for those babes...maybe the mother was really sick...or maybe it was some nutjob sitter that was not too responsible. I guess, for me personally, I would puke and poop on myself before I left my tiny kids alone in a cart for 20 minutes.


----------



## ewe+lamb (Jul 20, 2004)

My question is what was the mother doing in these twenty minutes - the kids were already alone by the time you found them so it was longer than that - so what was she doing for over twenty minutes in the bathroom - that's a really LONG time. Poor kids. I think I would have called the police IMO it sounds abit dodgy really.


----------



## beckyand3littlemonsters (Sep 16, 2006)

*Poor babies








i'd never leave my lo's alone in a shopping trolly to go to the toilet, i'd just try waiting till i got home if i could or if i really needed to go i would either go into the disabled toilet so i could have them in with me or take the trolly into the toilets and park it in front of the cubicle and leave the door open so could still see them, although usually if i have my lo's with me i don't use a trolly as can't push a trolly and pram at the same time but i would still take them in with me, you don't know what wierdos there are out there*


----------



## AllisonR (May 5, 2006)

Am I the only one to think the woman should be allowed to go to the bathroom? (though not for 20 minutes) The woman left her children by the bathroom. Why not just go into the restroom and say "hey, someone left their kids out here." Then the woman could have answered "they are mine, I will be out in a minute" or whatever. (And then she would have been sort of forced to get herself together in a reasonable amount of time.) That seems more practical and responsible to me than standing there 20 minutes, or calling security / police. If no one replies, then it is time to take stronger action.

Where I live we leave our sleeping children in the pram (buggy, stroller....) outside a shop or restaurant window. No one is going to steal them! Then we can look out occasionally and see if our babe is still sleeping, and still be able to shop or get something to eat. If the baby starts crying, a nice person on the street comes in and tells you your baby is crying, which I think is so thoughtful. On the other hand, if we go into a shop with a crying baby, we sit down and bf them. Often a shop person has stopped me and said "we have a comfy chair / breast feeding pillow / drinks in such and such room" and then shows me the way.

Perhaps a positive attitude, and respect for other parents, would be a better solution than the so-called "authorities".


----------



## the_queen (Nov 3, 2005)

Lucky it was a concerned and law-abiding mother who happened across them. Imagine if it was someone less scrupulous... actually scratch that, I don't wanna THINK of what could have happened. Poor bubby's.

Why would a person need to be in the bathroom for more than 20 minutes? Hmm. I'm a cynical negative-nancy... all I'll say is that at least she wasn't doing that around her kids.


----------



## LolaK (Jan 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AllisonR* 
Am I the only one to think the woman should be allowed to go to the bathroom? (though not for 20 minutes) The woman left her children by the bathroom. Why not just go into the restroom and say "hey, someone left their kids out here." Then the woman could have answered "they are mine, I will be out in a minute" or whatever. (And then she would have been sort of forced to get herself together in a reasonable amount of time.) That seems more practical and responsible to me than standing there 20 minutes, or calling security / police. If no one replies, then it is time to take stronger action.

Where I live we leave our sleeping children in the pram (buggy, stroller....) outside a shop or restaurant window. No one is going to steal them! Then we can look out occasionally and see if our babe is still sleeping, and still be able to shop or get something to eat. If the baby starts crying, a nice person on the street comes in and tells you your baby is crying, which I think is so thoughtful. On the other hand, if we go into a shop with a crying baby, we sit down and bf them. Often a shop person has stopped me and said "we have a comfy chair / breast feeding pillow / drinks in such and such room" and then shows me the way.

Perhaps a positive attitude, and respect for other parents, would be a better solution than the so-called "authorities".

That would never work in the US for so many reasons.


----------



## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

...but it sure sounds like the best soluton.


----------



## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

I wouldn't call authorities IMMEDIATELY. That's just asking for trouble for the mother when you don't even know the situation. After ten minutes I would have looked for her, worreid. I commend you for looking out for the kids, and it's so unfortunate for them that she obviously didn't care and was so rude to someone who was trying to help. But it always intrigues me that people seem more upset with the mom for being "bad" than worried for the kids. What's the ultimate objective here? Yes you're mad b/c she wasn't caring for her kids. But saying you'd call immediately without even knowing the particulars is a bit much. CPS isn't something you should handle lightly.

And I do think that the suggestion that respect for parents should come before kneejerk "alert the authorities" would indeed work in the U.S., even if the solution to leave kids unattended would not.


----------



## clane (Aug 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AllisonR* 
Am I the only one to think the woman should be allowed to go to the bathroom? (though not for 20 minutes) The woman left her children by the bathroom. Why not just go into the restroom and say "hey, someone left their kids out here." Then the woman could have answered "they are mine, I will be out in a minute" or whatever. (And then she would have been sort of forced to get herself together in a reasonable amount of time.) That seems more practical and responsible to me than standing there 20 minutes, or calling security / police. If no one replies, then it is time to take stronger action.

Where I live we leave our sleeping children in the pram (buggy, stroller....) outside a shop or restaurant window. No one is going to steal them! Then we can look out occasionally and see if our babe is still sleeping, and still be able to shop or get something to eat. If the baby starts crying, a nice person on the street comes in and tells you your baby is crying, which I think is so thoughtful. On the other hand, if we go into a shop with a crying baby, we sit down and bf them. Often a shop person has stopped me and said "we have a comfy chair / breast feeding pillow / drinks in such and such room" and then shows me the way.

Perhaps a positive attitude, and respect for other parents, would be a better solution than the so-called "authorities".


Wow, I wished the side of the world I live in could function like that. But our reality (in the US) is that in 20 min, those kids could be in a car 20+ miles away, by the time the "mother" reported them gone & a search began, who knows what might have happened.

I just this month brgan to let my DS (8) wait outside the rr & the girls come with me (as it not his respnsibility to keep the 3 yr & 1 yr olds safe). And that is dependant on the location of the restroom in question. Most of the time he comes in and waits by the sinks if he doesnt need to go.

I have had urgent potty needs before and the family room not avail. and handicapped stall occupied. I pull the cart in front of the stall and leave the door open. If anyone sees anything, oh well. My first & foremost priority in life is protecting my children. Anything beyond that is just a bonus to me.


----------



## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Wow, AllisonR, that sounds like where I'd like to live!

On the kidnapping fears - really? It is *so* rare, statistically. The fact that it gets plastered all over the media makes it feel like a real and present danger, but kidnapping is not on the list of things I'm concerned about with my child. Think about what is lost becoz we are held hostage by paranoia!


----------



## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *clane* 
My first & foremost priority in life is protecting my children. Anything beyond that is just a bonus to me.

ITA that protecting my child is my foremost priority in life. But thinking of *everything* else as a bonus? OMG that sucks. HAving a pee should not be a bonus. We need to make some changes!


----------



## MommytoHHH (Sep 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AllisonR* 
Am I the only one to think the woman should be allowed to go to the bathroom? (though not for 20 minutes) The woman left her children by the bathroom. Why not just go into the restroom and say "hey, someone left their kids out here." Then the woman could have answered "they are mine, I will be out in a minute" or whatever. (And then she would have been sort of forced to get herself together in a reasonable amount of time.) That seems more practical and responsible to me than standing there 20 minutes, or calling security / police. If no one replies, then it is time to take stronger action.

Where I live we leave our sleeping children in the pram (buggy, stroller....) outside a shop or restaurant window. No one is going to steal them! Then we can look out occasionally and see if our babe is still sleeping, and still be able to shop or get something to eat. If the baby starts crying, a nice person on the street comes in and tells you your baby is crying, which I think is so thoughtful. On the other hand, if we go into a shop with a crying baby, we sit down and bf them. Often a shop person has stopped me and said "we have a comfy chair / breast feeding pillow / drinks in such and such room" and then shows me the way.

Perhaps a positive attitude, and respect for other parents, would be a better solution than the so-called "authorities".

Wow. There are still places like that in the world? That honestly sounds like something from a book from the 1800s to me. In the US your children would be gone in a flash - probably never to be seen again. Sad, but so true.


----------



## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommytoHHH* 
That honestly sounds like something from a book from the 1800s to me. In the US your children would be gone in a flash - probably never to be seen again. Sad, but so true.

NOT true. Not true at all, statistically speaking. We believe the media twist entirely too much.







:


----------



## SharonAnne (Jul 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AllisonR* 
Am I the only one to think the woman should be allowed to go to the bathroom? (though not for 20 minutes) The woman left her children by the bathroom. Why not just go into the restroom and say "hey, someone left their kids out here." Then the woman could have answered "they are mine, I will be out in a minute" or whatever. (And then she would have been sort of forced to get herself together in a reasonable amount of time.) That seems more practical and responsible to me than standing there 20 minutes, or calling security / police. If no one replies, then it is time to take stronger action.

Where I live we leave our sleeping children in the pram (buggy, stroller....) outside a shop or restaurant window. No one is going to steal them! Then we can look out occasionally and see if our babe is still sleeping, and still be able to shop or get something to eat. If the baby starts crying, a nice person on the street comes in and tells you your baby is crying, which I think is so thoughtful. On the other hand, if we go into a shop with a crying baby, we sit down and bf them. Often a shop person has stopped me and said "we have a comfy chair / breast feeding pillow / drinks in such and such room" and then shows me the way.

Perhaps a positive attitude, and respect for other parents, would be a better solution than the so-called "authorities".


Well, that sounds just lovely. But, that's not the way it works here.


----------



## SharonAnne (Jul 12, 2004)

RE: Kidnapping fears;

I have a friend whose daughter has been missing for five years. Call me paranoid, but I won't give anyone the opportunity to take my kids.


----------



## wendy1221 (Feb 9, 2004)

I take the cart with me into the stall if I have to. Usually I sling the baby and the toddler's awake, though. I think you did the right thing.


----------



## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SharonAnne* 
RE: Kidnapping fears;

I have a friend whose daughter has been missing for five years. Call me paranoid, but I won't give anyone the opportunity to take my kids.

I'm very sorry to hear that, and I would probably paranoid also if I knew someone who lost their child in this way.

Statistically tho it is very rare to have a child stolen by a stranger. Kidnapping by someone the child knows is not so rare, but leaving children while you go pee in a grocery store would not risk this. Molestation is also a great risk, but as evidenced by a recent thread people around here don't seem nearly as concerned with this risk as they do with 'stranger danger.'

Talk about misplaced fears. Oy.


----------



## Amila (Apr 4, 2006)

I pee with the babe in the sling







Shes little though. If I had no sling I would carry her in. If I had more than 1 kid and REALLY had to go I would ask an employee to watch the cart and I would be out in 3 minutes or less. Scratch that I don't think I would even be ok with that!


----------



## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amila* 
I pee with the babe in the sling







Shes little though. If I had no sling I would carry her in. If I had more than 1 kid and REALLY had to go I would ask an employee to watch the cart and I would be out in 3 minutes or less. Scratch that I don't think I would even be ok with that!


Me too. But it's coz I'm scared someone would call CAS, not coz I'm scared of kidnapping. And that is sad.


----------



## ~MoonGypsy~ (Aug 21, 2006)

Was it a private bathroom? One toilet, locked door? Or many stalls unlocked door? I would have looked for the mom and made sure she was okay before alerting anyone, especially because the children were outside a bathroom, not the cereal aisle.

What really irks me though is the way she responded of all things. 20 minutes in the loo = somethings wrong and she could have been in pain but geez. What a UA violation.


----------



## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

Statisicially it's rare, but it is a small threat. Not worth taking obviously. I'd worry more about them getting molested in/near a bathroom (well kind of the same fear) or falling out of the cart. My son is going into the women's bathroom with me til he's, well, old.

That being said, I think we are still way alarmist in our society. Our first response isn't "where's mom? Is she OK? Can I help?" It's "Where IS this bad mother!!??"


----------



## MyLittleWarrior (Dec 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AllisonR* 
Am I the only one to think the woman should be allowed to go to the bathroom? (though not for 20 minutes) The woman left her children by the bathroom. Why not just go into the restroom and say "hey, someone left their kids out here." Then the woman could have answered "they are mine, I will be out in a minute" or whatever. (And then she would have been sort of forced to get herself together in a reasonable amount of time.) That seems more practical and responsible to me than standing there 20 minutes, or calling security / police. If no one replies, then it is time to take stronger action.

Where I live we leave our sleeping children in the pram (buggy, stroller....) outside a shop or restaurant window. No one is going to steal them! Then we can look out occasionally and see if our babe is still sleeping, and still be able to shop or get something to eat. If the baby starts crying, a nice person on the street comes in and tells you your baby is crying, which I think is so thoughtful. On the other hand, if we go into a shop with a crying baby, we sit down and bf them. Often a shop person has stopped me and said "we have a comfy chair / breast feeding pillow / drinks in such and such room" and then shows me the way.

Perhaps a positive attitude, and respect for other parents, would be a better solution than the so-called "authorities".

I am assuming that the OP lives in the USA (please correct me if I'm wrong) and unfortunatly, here it is not safe to leave your children unattended. I wish we were a society where everyone looks out for everyone elses kids, but it's just not the case. As much as I love my country, we do have some issues. There are way too many sickos and psycos out there roaming around waiting to prey on poor helpless children. Someone could have very easily pushed that shopping cart away and the mother would have come out of the bathroom 20 minutes later and her children would be gone and she would never see them again. I know it's awful to think about, but that mother was very lucky that nothing happened to her kids.


----------



## nonconformnmom (May 24, 2005)

There is no way I could have been, umm ..... productive ... in a bathroom stall if my kids were not within sight/ hearing of me at all times. That's not about fear, per se, but about my comfort in being able to relax and perform bodily functions. That is just bizarre to me.


----------



## 2tadpoles (Aug 8, 2004)

I would be less worried about kidnapping than about my kids falling out of the cart. The toddler could have tried to climb out and either A) fallen, or B) walked away and gotten lost. The toddler could also have knocked the infant out of the cart.

At any rate, it's completely negligent to leave your kids in a shopping cart all alone.


----------



## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

Wow, I am really super laid back on most kid issues; ie. we don't know the whole story, the family, etc BUT that pretty much screams neglect, abuse, immaturity, etc.

I mean, I could understand leaving a 5 y.o. by the door for a couple of minutes but so young and so long?!







: Yeah, I would've notified store personnel after 5 minutes.

Going potty is a right that we still have







but there are ways to do it and not to do it.


----------



## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hazelnut* 

That being said, I think we are still way alarmist in our society. Our first response isn't "where's mom? Is she OK? Can I help?" It's "Where IS this bad mother!!??"

I understand what you're saying but I do disagree.







My first thought would've been, "What should/could *I* do to help these children?"


----------



## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2tadpoles* 
I would be less worried about kidnapping than about my kids falling out of the cart. The toddler could have tried to climb out and either A) fallen, or B) walked away and gotten lost. The toddler could also have knocked the infant out of the cart.

At any rate, it's completely negligent to leave your kids in a shopping cart all alone.









: It is much more likely that the toddler would fall out of the cart on his/her head then kidnapped. Either way, wasn't there a handicapped stall for the woman to take her cart in?


----------



## TripMom (Aug 26, 2005)

2o minutes! Really! At first I read your post and though - this mama had a very extreme bathroom situation (I have had this happen to me - but lucklily the shopping cart fit in the bathroom!) But 20 minutes????


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

I don't think my husband takes 20 min in the bathroom, and with a good book. That is an incredibly long time.

Drugs?


----------



## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BusyMommy* 
I understand what you're saying but I do disagree.







My first thought would've been, "What should/could *I* do to help these children?"

Well that's different than thinking first "CALL THE POLICE."


----------



## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kundalini-Mama* 
Drugs?

It doesn't take 20 minutes, even if you are shooting heroin. Snorting a few lines of coke is like 2 minutes tops.


----------



## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

I wonder if it really was 20 minutes? Maybe, but I mean it just sounds strange. It's reprehensible either way, but it just sounds awfully long.


----------



## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kundalini-Mama* 
I don't think my husband takes 20 min in the bathroom, and with a good book. That is an incredibly long time.

Drugs?

My DH can take 20 minutes in the bathroom. Don't tell that I tattled.







:


----------



## newmommy (Sep 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wendy1221* 
I take the cart with me into the stall if I have to.

This is what I do too. I will will the grocery cart inside the bathroom and into the stall.

I guess, it wouldn't occur to me to do otherwise?


----------



## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

That's what I do too, when I just need to pee. Sometimes it makes the other ladies in the bathroom hostile, but oh well.

When I was very pg with my daugher I realized I was about to have a major and prolonged poo problem in the Fred Meyer, so I lied about my son's age (he was a little shy of 2) so he could go in the secured play area. That experience totally sold me on Fred Meyer - I don't usually put him there, but it's nice to know that I COULD do it if I get ill again.


----------



## leahr (May 15, 2005)

Pee, Drugs, fix makeup that could take 20 minutes. I would have poked my head in the bathroom to try to find the mother.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 

Statistically tho it is very rare to have a child stolen by a stranger. Kidnapping by someone the child knows is not so rare, but leaving children while you go pee in a grocery store would not risk this.

Talk about misplaced fears. Oy.

If she is going grocery shopping i'm assuming she lives in the area and the risk of someone she knows kidnapping her children is still there


----------



## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

The last time I saw a young child unattended he was around 3-4yo in the store I watched him for a bit to see if anyone came looking for him when no one did after a few minutes I went to one of the sales people and pointed him out. The sales person just looked at me like so what and they didnt do a flipping thing. So I continued to watch the child until his mom came looking for him.

I know that the statistics say kidnapping is a low risk but just think, someone has to be that statistic and do you really want your kids to be that statistic?? Sure we shouldnt live in fear but common sense goes a long way. If everyone watched there kids and didnt do things like the OP is talking about then the statistics would be even lower.


----------



## Terabith (Mar 10, 2006)

Kidnapping by a stranger is very, very, very rare. We have developed a culture of fear around that. The reality is that while leaving your young children unattended is not safe, it's more because the child could fall out of the cart, get upset and cry, etc. It's not a "leave child unattended = child kidnapped and 20 minutes away" scenario.

I would have gone looking for the mom in the bathroom. But honestly, my first thought is that she was ill and that her rude response was because she was embarrassed and knew that what she had done was not good.

I think calling the authorities anytime something is amiss is just going to contribute to the culture of mistrust and fear in our society. Playing peekaboo with the baby and knocking on the door/ checking to see if everyone is okay does not.


----------



## dawn1221 (Sep 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AllisonR* 
Am I the only one to think the woman should be allowed to go to the bathroom? (though not for 20 minutes) The woman left her children by the bathroom. Why not just go into the restroom and say "hey, someone left their kids out here." Then the woman could have answered "they are mine, I will be out in a minute" or whatever. (And then she would have been sort of forced to get herself together in a reasonable amount of time.) That seems more practical and responsible to me than standing there 20 minutes, or calling security / police. If no one replies, then it is time to take stronger action.

Where I live we leave our sleeping children in the pram (buggy, stroller....) outside a shop or restaurant window. No one is going to steal them! Then we can look out occasionally and see if our babe is still sleeping, and still be able to shop or get something to eat. If the baby starts crying, a nice person on the street comes in and tells you your baby is crying, which I think is so thoughtful. On the other hand, if we go into a shop with a crying baby, we sit down and bf them. Often a shop person has stopped me and said "we have a comfy chair / breast feeding pillow / drinks in such and such room" and then shows me the way.

Perhaps a positive attitude, and respect for other parents, would be a better solution than the so-called "authorities".

I agree with other posters. It must be really nice where you live.

However, in Los Angeles where I live there are registered sex offenders livinging within .2 miles of my home so I would never risk it for any reason! As far as the statistics being in favor of the mother not having her kids kidnapped I say who cares! Why would you risk even a 1% chance someone could take your baby and do who knows what with him/her?

It is neglect pure and simple and I WOULD have called the police and reported her for that. For her to be defensive about the fact that she left her BABIES alone is all the more reason. I would have taken it one step further and followed her out to the parking lot, got her license plates and reported her (if I hadn't already). IMO, this is a sign of other issues in the home.

If it is considered neglect to leave your dog in the car for 5 minutes, what do you think this was? You would lose your dog for something like that. Why wouldn't you want someone to do a welfare check on a child too!


----------



## grypx831 (May 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
It doesn't take 20 minutes, even if you are shooting heroin. Snorting a few lines of coke is like 2 minutes tops.

I was JUST going to post that but I didn't want to look like the neighborhood junkie









Op that is SO SCARY! I had something like that happen to me in BRU. I was with my girls picking up a few things and when I went to pay I noticed a little teeny baby - MAYBE 4 months tops, in one of those "snap n go" car seat stroller things. I thought she was with the guy next to her but then he walked off to pay and she was all alone. I didn't know what to do and I was afraid to move her because I thought somebody might think I was stealing her - and all of a sudden I hear a mom SCREAMING that her baby was lost. The older child had been pushing the stroller and kinda ditched the baby to look at something.

oh, and the only time I was in the bathroom for 20 minutes was a miscarriage, other than that I'm in and out.


----------



## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AllisonR* 
Am I the only one to think the woman should be allowed to go to the bathroom? (though not for 20 minutes) The woman left her children by the bathroom. Why not just go into the restroom and say "hey, someone left their kids out here." Then the woman could have answered "they are mine, I will be out in a minute" or whatever. (And then she would have been sort of forced to get herself together in a reasonable amount of time.) That seems more practical and responsible to me than standing there 20 minutes, or calling security / police. If no one replies, then it is time to take stronger action.

Where I live we leave our sleeping children in the pram (buggy, stroller....) outside a shop or restaurant window. No one is going to steal them! Then we can look out occasionally and see if our babe is still sleeping, and still be able to shop or get something to eat. If the baby starts crying, a nice person on the street comes in and tells you your baby is crying, which I think is so thoughtful. On the other hand, if we go into a shop with a crying baby, we sit down and bf them. Often a shop person has stopped me and said "we have a comfy chair / breast feeding pillow / drinks in such and such room" and then shows me the way.

Perhaps a positive attitude, and respect for other parents, would be a better solution than the so-called "authorities".

Personally, I think it's less about someone coming along and snatching the baby and more about leaving two children alone with no one to meet their needs.


----------



## Destinye (Aug 27, 2003)

If I left my DD in the shopping cart even that young (18 mo!) she would have been at the other end of the store after about 2 minutes probably checking out the toys!


----------



## riverscout (Dec 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AllisonR* 
Where I live we leave our sleeping children in the pram (buggy, stroller....) outside a shop or restaurant window. No one is going to steal them! Then we can look out occasionally and see if our babe is still sleeping, and still be able to shop or get something to eat. If the baby starts crying, a nice person on the street comes in and tells you your baby is crying, which I think is so thoughtful. On the other hand, if we go into a shop with a crying baby, we sit down and bf them. Often a shop person has stopped me and said "we have a comfy chair / breast feeding pillow / drinks in such and such room" and then shows me the way.

I am emigrating to Denmark as soon as possible.


----------



## mom2katie (Jun 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AllisonR* 
Am I the only one to think the woman should be allowed to go to the bathroom? (though not for 20 minutes) The woman left her children by the bathroom. Why not just go into the restroom and say "hey, someone left their kids out here." Then the woman could have answered "they are mine, I will be out in a minute" or whatever. (And then she would have been sort of forced to get herself together in a reasonable amount of time.) That seems more practical and responsible to me than standing there 20 minutes, or calling security / police. If no one replies, then it is time to take stronger action.

Where I live we leave our sleeping children in the pram (buggy, stroller....) outside a shop or restaurant window. No one is going to steal them! Then we can look out occasionally and see if our babe is still sleeping, and still be able to shop or get something to eat. If the baby starts crying, a nice person on the street comes in and tells you your baby is crying, which I think is so thoughtful. On the other hand, if we go into a shop with a crying baby, we sit down and bf them. Often a shop person has stopped me and said "we have a comfy chair / breast feeding pillow / drinks in such and such room" and then shows me the way.

Perhaps a positive attitude, and respect for other parents, would be a better solution than the so-called "authorities".


I have been to Arhus (DH was there for 4 months a few years ago) and was shocked to find that this was very common. Babies commonly napped outside in prams even in very cold weather. Unfortunately this wouldn't work in the US. I believe that a Danish couple living in NY were prosecuted for neglect for putting their child outside of their apartment to sleep.


----------



## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leahr* 
If she is going grocery shopping i'm assuming she lives in the area and the risk of someone she knows kidnapping her children is still there

Are you serious? Do you ever think to yourself, "Huh, better not leave my kiddo unattended in a public place in case *someone I know* kidnaps them!" That is absurd. If you are not in a child custody situation, or dealing with an abuser or stalker ex, the risk that someone you know will kidnap your child is pretty darn low. And, the risk that someone you know will get them in the grocery store is even lower. Usually what happens in known abductor cases is that children are not returned after visitation.

The fear of stranger danger here shocks me. Seriously.


----------



## J's Mombee (Aug 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beckyand3littlemonsters* 
*Poor babies








i'd never leave my lo's alone in a shopping trolly to go to the toilet, i'd just try waiting till i got home if i could or if i really needed to go i would either go into the disabled toilet so i could have them in with me or take the trolly into the toilets and park it in front of the cubicle and leave the door open so could still see them...*


----------



## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

Have you heard of the book _Protecting the Gift,_ by Gavin de Becker? It's often recommended on mdc a lot, and I think it's a great book about children and safety, esp. wrt Americans' culture of fear. Anyway, it's been awhile since I read it, but IIRC, he does highlight how small the chance is that your child could be abducted. He also doesn't say not to worry about it. That being said, I still think people are way alarmist and a little loose with alerting! the! authorities! I swear, the amount of times I've heard "I woulda called cps immediately!" on even this website filled with mothers shocks me. I wouldn't leave my kid alone either for a second, but what happened to just keeping an eye on the kids, making sure the mom is OK, and maybe letting her know how long it was or something. Let's immediately get her in trouble and get the kids removed! Without knowing anything about them!


----------



## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AllisonR* 
Am I the only one to think the woman should be allowed to go to the bathroom? (though not for 20 minutes) The woman left her children by the bathroom. Why not just go into the restroom and say "hey, someone left their kids out here." Then the woman could have answered "they are mine, I will be out in a minute" or whatever. (And then she would have been sort of forced to get herself together in a reasonable amount of time.) That seems more practical and responsible to me than standing there 20 minutes, or calling security / police. If no one replies, then it is time to take stronger action.

Where I live we leave our sleeping children in the pram (buggy, stroller....) outside a shop or restaurant window. No one is going to steal them! Then we can look out occasionally and see if our babe is still sleeping, and still be able to shop or get something to eat. If the baby starts crying, a nice person on the street comes in and tells you your baby is crying, which I think is so thoughtful. On the other hand, if we go into a shop with a crying baby, we sit down and bf them. Often a shop person has stopped me and said "we have a comfy chair / breast feeding pillow / drinks in such and such room" and then shows me the way.

Perhaps a positive attitude, and respect for other parents, would be a better solution than the so-called "authorities".

Wow that would SO never happen here!! If you go in a store with a fussy baby you get ppl staring at you. I went into Hanna Anderson's with a fussy baby the other day. No one offered me a chair or anything to nurse my son. There was no where to sit in the store so we went outside in the cold and I sat on a cold cement bench to feed him.

At the very least I would be concerned these babies could have fallen out of the cart and been hurt. At the worse, some sicko could have come by and snatched them (not unheard of in this country.) It is against the law to leave a child under X age unattended. I am not sure of the age but I know it is more than 18 months!


----------



## coobabysmom (Nov 16, 2005)

This is horrifying... It was noble of you to watch her children but it sounds like calling the store management would have been in order for such negligence. I think 20 minutes is really long time to leave a toddler alone w/ an infant in a public space. Maybe she would have learned a lesson, intead of being such b***h to you.

I think you did a nice thing keeping an eye on her kids.


----------



## 2tadpoles (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hazelnut* 
I swear, the amount of times I've heard "I woulda called cps immediately!" on even this website filled with mothers shocks me. I wouldn't leave my kid alone either for a second, but what happened to just keeping an eye on the kids, making sure the mom is OK, and maybe letting her know how long it was or something. Let's immediately get her in trouble and get the kids removed! Without knowing anything about them!

On the one hand, I agree with you.

On the other....if a parent leaves her (tiny) children alone in public for 20 minutes, what might s/he be doing to them at home? Usually, people behave _better_ when they're in public.

About ten years ago, there was this family across the street from me with very young kids. I didn't regularly associate with them, but knew enough about them to know they weren't the sort of people I wanted to hang out with.

Anyway, this one time I ran to the corner store for milk or something. Their car was parked in the lot, windows down, 8- or 9-month old infant in the carseat with a couple of bees swarming around her. This was on a small military base, so I wasn't really afraid of someone snatching her. I went into the mini-mart, found her mom, and said "You might want to go bring your daughter inside. There are bees on her."

She said, "Oh....that's okay. She's not allergic."







:

No, I didn't call any authorities. Several months later some other people did, because the family's toddler was found running around outside (alone) in 20-degree weather in nothing but a diaper. Shortly thereafter, the parents decided to go shopping, took the toddler with them, but left the baby home in the crib. The neighbors called base police after listening to the baby screaming for some time. I don't know whatever happened to the family other than they were forced out of military housing.


----------



## queenjane (May 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AllisonR* 
Where I live we leave our sleeping children in the pram (buggy, stroller....) outside a shop or restaurant window. No one is going to steal them! Then we can look out occasionally and see if our babe is still sleeping, and still be able to shop or get something to eat. If the baby starts crying, a nice person on the street comes in and tells you your baby is crying, which I think is so thoughtful. On the other hand, if we go into a shop with a crying baby, we sit down and bf them. Often a shop person has stopped me and said "we have a comfy chair / breast feeding pillow / drinks in such and such room" and then shows me the way.

But this is the cultural norm in Denmark. NOT the cultural norm in the US, not at all. In fact, i remember there was a tourist visiting (i think)NYC, she was from Denmark, or Scandavia....some place that has similar cultural practices as what you've just described...she thought she was doing the ok thing, but got in BIG trouble, they wanted to put her baby in foster care (i think she just got the baby back and got the heck out of the US.)

Its really not done here, at least i've never seen it done as a normal practice. Maybe MAYBE in a real small town where everyone knows one another? Here you can get in BIG trouble for leaving a baby totally unattended like that.

Katherine


----------



## queenjane (May 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *425lisamarie* 
I would probably assume the mother had a medical emergency or fell over dead or got flushed down the toilet or something. I mean, a minute is stupidity to leave a child, but 20 whole minutes...as in actually watching your clock for 20 minutes....is different.


Exactly. I wouldve assumed, after about ten minutes, that the mother was lying unconscious in the bathroom, or someone had dragged her in there and murdered her. Or, the babies had been abandoned. It really doesnt take 20 minutes to use the bathroom, esp in public, unless she was having some major issues...and if that were the case (like, she was really sick or something)why wouldnt she say "Gosh, i know, i didnt expect to be there so long but i was having some bowel issues....thanks SO MUCH for watching my babies!" Instead, she cusses at the woman??

Katherine


----------



## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Quote:

As far as the statistics being in favor of the mother not having her kids kidnapped I say who cares! Why would you risk even a 1% chance someone could take your baby and do who knows what with him/her?








:







: This is what I was trying to say in my pp. It ISN'T worth the risk no matter how small.


----------



## Potty Diva (Jun 18, 2003)

I noticed that some had mentioned that she may have fallen, passed out etc. but I haven't seen anyone mention that she may have had bowel issues (oh wait I did see this mentioned) or she may have been throwing up, or perhaps started her period and needed to get cleaned up.

perhaps the children were left where they were because the potty break was an emergency and she just hustled them as close as she could get them and ran in.

Her response if the above were true may be spot on. I would have been tired and hurting if I had bowel issues and a good F you! would have been appropriate for someone who judged a situation without knowing what was going on.


----------



## 2tadpoles (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *queenjane* 
But this is the cultural norm in Denmark. NOT the cultural norm in the US, not at all.

Just out of curiosity, can anyone tell me WHY this is the norm in Denmark? What is the reason for leaving your kids outside while you eat or shop?


----------



## mamajama (Oct 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Potty Diva* 
I noticed that some had mentioned that she may have fallen, passed out etc. but I haven't seen anyone mention that she may have had bowel issues (oh wait I did see this mentioned) or she may have been throwing up, or perhaps started her period and needed to get cleaned up.

perhaps the children were left where they were because the potty break was an emergency and she just hustled them as close as she could get them and ran in.

Her response if the above were true may be spot on. I would have been tired and hurting if I had bowel issues and a good F you! would have been appropriate for someone who judged a situation without knowing what was going on.

I totally agree with this.

What a sad thread. Paranoid people living in fear terrify me. Does that make any sense?








OP, why didn't you knock on the door to see if the mother was ok?


----------



## Potty Diva (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamajama* 
I totally agree with this.

What a sad thread. Paranoid people living in fear terrify me. Does that make any sense?








OP, why didn't you knock on the door to see if the mother was ok?

Paranoid people terrify me as well. They are irrational and tend to act before thinking (ok, so that sounds a lot like me, but I promise I am NOT paranoid- really.)


----------



## PumpkinSeeds (Dec 19, 2001)

Prams are huge. Stores are freakishly small. I'm not in Denmark, but nearby. Leaving prams outside shops is a common practice where I live too. In cold weather, most people use one of those zip up sleeping bags thingys.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2tadpoles* 
Just out of curiosity, can anyone tell me WHY this is the norm in Denmark? What is the reason for leaving your kids outside while you eat or shop?


----------



## queenjane (May 17, 2004)

I don't think its about paranoia...this was a toddler and a baby, left totally unattended. In a shopping cart. For at least 20 minutes.

As others have mentioned, the toddler couldve climbed out of the cart, or fallen, or accidentally tipped the cart over w/ the baby in it. The baby couldve started to cry, with no mother in sight. Twenty minutes is a LONG time to leave a child completely unattended (and it was likely longer than that)...when my son was a toddler, i dont think i left him for 20 minutes without checking on him in my own house. There was just too much stuff for him to get into.

Sure, the mom couldve been having a "problem" in the bathroom. The "proper" response when she came out was to be thankful that a stranger was keeping an eye on her kids, not swear at her. If that happened to me, i think i'd want that stranger to know that i wasnt a bad mother, i just had an emergency. And really, if i WAS having an emergency, i woudve taken the kids in the bathroom with me. I just don't see how its safe to have two kids unattended in a shopping cart (not safe, as in they might be kidnapped, but safe as in, they couldve gotten hurt.)

You arent worried that a couple of babies might be scared that their mom is just GONE, for such a long time?? I wouldnt have such a problem with it, if it was for a couple of minutes, or if the kids were older, or if the mom would have at least been civil to the poster.

Katherine


----------



## queenjane (May 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PumpkinSeeds* 
Prams are huge. Stores are freakishly small..


Thats pretty much opposite of the US, where strollers are small and stores are freakishly huge.









Katherine


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newmommy* 
This is what I do too. I will will the grocery cart inside the bathroom and into the stall.

I guess, it wouldn't occur to me to do otherwise?









Were there any unpaid for groceries in it? If so, taking the cart into the bathroom isn't allowed here. Actually, I'm not sure I could get a cart into the bathroom in either of the grocery stores I usually shop at.

re: 20 minutes in the bathroom. This doesn't seem so bizarre to me. I'm sure I've been that long on occasion, even without a good book. Things don't always work so well in my digestive system (although my problems with that seem to be gone these days).

She definitely left her kids unattended for too long, and I hope that feeling freaked out about having someone staring at her kids twigged her into that. However, her reaction doesn't really surprise me. That's probably how I'd feel if I found some random person hanging around my kids, then got lectured on my bad parenting. I've had some extremely bad moments as a parent, and I really hated it when people judged on a brief public example of what was going on in my family.


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *queenjane* 
Exactly. I wouldve assumed, after about ten minutes, that the mother was lying unconscious in the bathroom, or someone had dragged her in there and murdered her. Or, the babies had been abandoned. It really doesnt take 20 minutes to use the bathroom, esp in public, unless she was having some major issues...and if that were the case (like, she was really sick or something)why wouldnt she say "Gosh, i know, i didnt expect to be there so long but i was having some bowel issues....thanks SO MUCH for watching my babies!" Instead, she cusses at the woman??

Katherine


Maybe because if she was having some kind of problems, particularly if she was in pain, she wasn't emotionally prepared to be attacked when she came back out of the bathroom. I know the OP didn't mean her comments as an attack, per se, but she definitely meant them as a condemnation of the woman's parenting. So...let's see:

-Sudden need to use the bathroom, perhaps accompanied by pain (it often was for me)
-Desperate search for a bathroom and somewhere to put the kids
-No luck finding somewhere for kids
-20 minutes in bathroom, in pain, freaking out about whether kids are okay
-Come out to find random stranger "staring" at your kids
-Freak out a little.
-Stranger attacks your parenting.

If this were the scenario, you honestly can't see why a calm "thank you for watching my kids" wasn't the woman's reaction?

Aside from everything else, I certainly can't imagine telling some woman I'd just met in a store that I was "having some bowel issues". I always found those problems extremely embarrassing.

All that said - sure - there's every chance this woman was just being negligent. I'm not so starry-eyed as to think there aren't any parents out there who don't pay enough attention to what their kids are doing, and grocery carts are potentially dangerous.


----------



## newmommy (Sep 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
Were there any unpaid for groceries in it? If so, taking the cart into the bathroom isn't allowed here. Actually, I'm not sure I could get a cart into the bathroom in either of the grocery stores I usually shop at


No, no groceries in it. I do my business before shopping.

I go to Publix and Walmart.

Publix have those Car Shopping Carts...so no I wouldn't be able to fit it in the stall. I just take DS out of the shopping cart and bring him into the stall with me.

Walmart have regular shopping carts and their bathrooms are wide enough to fit shopping carts in there.

If I am ever questioned, I will explain I am doing this for the safety of my child...although it should be common sense.


----------



## Rainbowbird (Jul 26, 2004)

I am glad to see that I am not the only one who finds this thread a bit fishy.

Sorry, but I don't believe any rational person would stand for 20 whole minutes watching two unattended children and not a) find the mother; b) tell a store employee.

If I observed such a situation I would try to find the mom or at least let an employee know.

I would not leave my children unattended, but I would not necessarily say the woman is an unfit parent, either. We don't know the whole story. Possibly she was neglectful; possibly she was in trouble of some sort as others have mentioned.

I also hate the whole culture here of "call the cops/authorities/DCF" on someone before getting all the facts in an ambiguous situation. Obviously there are situations where an immediate call is warranted, but I just really dislike the whole mindset/culture of fear. Yes, I'm very protective of my kids but you can't let that sour your whole outlook. I read "Protecting the Gift" btw, and while I learned a lot from it, it doesn't advocate being totally paranoid either. Smart and proactive is more like it.

Maybe I should move to Denmark!


----------



## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

_I read "Protecting the Gift" btw, and while I learned a lot from it, it doesn't advocate being totally paranoid either. Smart and proactive is more like it._

I'm the one that suggested it, and I agree. The only idea I was disagreeing with was the idea that abduction almost never happens, so don't worry about it. The whole reason I bought it up was b/c this safety expert who talks about how our culture of fear harms us, acknowledges that it is still an issue to be aware of in certain situations. I don't think keeping abduction in mind is paranoid. But I do think a lot of responses in this thread, or assuming that it will happen, is paranoid.


----------



## dawn1221 (Sep 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
Are you serious? Do you ever think to yourself, "Huh, better not leave my kiddo unattended in a public place in case *someone I know* kidnaps them!" That is absurd. If you are not in a child custody situation, or dealing with an abuser or stalker ex, the risk that someone you know will kidnap your child is pretty darn low. And, the risk that someone you know will get them in the grocery store is even lower. Usually what happens in known abductor cases is that children are not returned after visitation.

The fear of stranger danger here shocks me. Seriously.

I think about abduction all the time. I live very close to the Mexico/US border and there have been some horrifying cases of child abductions near me (plus my DD is so cute who wouldn't want to steal her







).

I hate to bring up recent cases but I feel like it really does apply to your comment. Ben Ornby was taken right after he got off the school bus in a town where everyone knows everyone (and that is what saved his life thankfully). Stranger danger is out there and being afraid means being aware and pro-active.

I was almost abducted when I was 11 years old by a STRANGER (danger) and thank god I knew what to do when this pervert tried to grab me. The reason I knew what to do is because my parents were not living in another time where everything was all roses and rainbows. The educated me about these things and it is important to not only be aware of them as parents but to teach our kids about them. Even if it means putting the fear of stranger danger in their little minds (as if they don't have enough to worry about already - but this is important).

As I said before, it is not worth even a 1% chance. Why risk it?


----------



## riverscout (Dec 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rainbowbird* 
I am glad to see that I am not the only one who finds this thread a bit fishy.

Sorry, but I don't believe any rational person would stand for 20 whole minutes watching two unattended children and not a) find the mother; b) tell a store employee.

If I observed such a situation I would try to find the mom or at least let an employee know.

I think it is really easy to be a Monday morning quaterback in situations like this. I think the OP's response to casually observe but not get actively involved was pretty typical and not irrational in any way. People are afraid to make the wrong choice in odd situations like this. It's why most people stand around and don't step in when folks need help because they don't want to make the wrong choice. It takes a rare person to do so. It's a very normal human reaction to just freeze and observe and social psychology experiments demonstrate this type of reaction very clearly.

If the OP called the cops, she would have been vivlified by half the folks here and risked getting a possiblely sick mama's kids taken away or at least gotten her investigated by CPS. If she went looking for the mom, she may have gotten a worse tounge lashing from her if she interuped her personal business and she may have been afraid to embarrass anyone else or be embarrassed herself. If she went to an employee, they may have acted like she was a lunatic and probably not done a damn thing about it anyway.

I find nothing at all odd about the OPs actions. I actually think it was quite admirable of her to give up 20 minutes of her time to make sure these little ones were safe. Sheesh, give the woman a break. She did a good thing IMO.


----------



## newmommy (Sep 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dawn1221* 
it is not worth even a 1% chance. Why risk it?

I completely agree.


----------



## queenjane (May 17, 2004)

Quote:

However, her reaction doesn't really surprise me. That's probably how I'd feel if I found some random person hanging around my kids, then got lectured on my bad parenting.

Quote:

Maybe because if she was having some kind of problems, particularly if she was in pain, she wasn't emotionally prepared to be attacked when she came back out of the bathroom.

Quote:

If this were the scenario, you honestly can't see why a calm "thank you for watching my kids" wasn't the woman's reaction?
I guess it wouldnt occur to me, if i'd left my children alone for that long (esp if it were for a "good" reason, that is, unexpected emergency)to say "F**k Off!!" or whatever to the mom who was nice enough to keep an eye on them, regardless of whether she "attacked" me (and i think its a stretch to call what the OP said an attack.) I'm not saying she needed to get into details, but she didnt have to cuss at her.Regardless of whether the mom felt justified in leaving her kids alone (for twenty minutes, unattended, in a shopping cart), another mother was concerned enough to keep an eye on them for her. She didnt call CPS, or store security or the police.

Apparently others think that is a logical reaction.









And...if the mother didn't want "random people" hanging around her kids, she shouldnt have left a toddler and infant (who couldnt even sit up in the cart) alone in a shopping cart--for at least 20 minutes. She truly expected that no one would notice them?!

Katherine


----------



## Rainbowbird (Jul 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *riverscout* 
I think it is really easy to be a Monday morning quaterback in situations like this. I think the OP's response to casually observe but not get actively involved was pretty typical and not irrational in any way. People are afraid to make the wrong choice in odd situations like this. It's why most people stand around and don't step in when folks need help because they don't want to make the wrong choice. It takes a rare person to do so. It's a very normal human reaction to just freeze and observe and social psychology experiments demonstrate this type of reaction very clearly.

If the OP called the cops, she would have been vivlified by half the folks here and risked getting a possiblely sick mama's kids taken away or at least gotten her investigated by CPS. If she went looking for the mom, she may have gotten a worse tounge lashing from her if she interuped her personal business and she may have been afraid to embarrass anyone else or be embarrassed herself. If she went to an employee, they may have acted like she was a lunatic and probably not done a damn thing about it anyway.

I find nothing at all odd about the OPs actions. I actually think it was quite admirable of her to give up 20 minutes of her time to make sure these little ones were safe. Sheesh, give the woman a break. She did a good thing IMO.

Sorry, but I just have my doubts about the validity/accuracy of this story.


----------



## Tiffany_PartyOf5 (Jan 5, 2007)

I sooo would have found the nearest cop or called the cops on that lady.. Im the type to follow people home so I can call CPS on them for not having their kids in a carseat LOLOL..


----------



## 425lisamarie (Mar 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rainbowbird* 
Sorry, but I just have my doubts about the validity/accuracy of this story.


yeah, I was laughing like "oh for pete's sake," don't you have anything better to do then make things up?







:. Yeah, shouldn't have said anything, but it's like so stupid around here sometimes. This is totally to me a case of: this is the internet and people have nothing better to do


----------



## Potty Diva (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rainbowbird* 
Sorry, but I just have my doubts about the validity/accuracy of this story.


So do I. We really don't know what the tone of the OP was when she spoke to the mom. In fact the OP might have been extremely abrasive to the mom, and if she indeed was having an emergency in the bathroom and some random women came and lectured me about leaving my kids, I woud have called her the same as the woman did. perhaps it's an accurate description for those of us who want to play "child advocate" before getting the facts.

I think a "hey I noticed your kids were alone, and also wanted to make sureyou were ok. Are you alright? I stayed with them just in case you miht need help when you came out." Yeah and I have seen kids unattended and was proactive about finding the mom. Once the woman came aroundd the corner out of breath because she had been looking for her son for a few seconds and it freaked her out and another time mom didn't realise herlittle girl was missing because she got caught up in a conversation with a friend and her newborn. Neither times did I freak out on the mom. I have never had the misfortune of having Kailey walk away from me or leaving her unattended(haen't had any emergency that warranted it) but I am not going to assue it doesn't happen and go "all wild" when I encounter this type of situation.

So let's not assume the worst of this unknown mom who may be just like any one of us.


----------



## MidwifeErika (Jun 30, 2005)

I think that if I found children that were unattended for 20 minutes, I would alert security so that they could find out if the mother/father/caretaker was ok! I would be wondering if the person stumbled in the bathroom having a major medical emergency.... maybe diabetic and having trouble with blood sugar, or having some MAJOR bathroom trouble, or something.... 20 minutes is a very long time to be away from a cart. I wonder what she was doing in a bathroom for 20 minutes if she was really just neglectful? If I was going to neglect my kids, I can think of more enjoyable places to hang then a public bathroom for 20 minutes. So, maybe there really, really was a very good reason for how everything went down.


----------



## momz3 (May 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EMAID* 
I shop in military commissaries, and if that had happened there, the police would have been called by the employees. That lady would have been in serious trouble. Heck, on a base, you can't even leave a PACKAGE unattended!


not at ft hood...they seem to care less...kids play in the streets here, parents are no where to be found ..cops do nothing







:


----------



## momz3 (May 1, 2006)

I don't think anything is strange about this story...

ppl here can be sooo judgemental...


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newmommy* 
No, no groceries in it. I do my business before shopping.

I generally do, as well...didn't use to make much difference, though. I was frequently struck by an _urgent_ need to "do my business" while shopping, anyway.

Quote:

I go to Publix and Walmart.

Publix have those Car Shopping Carts...so no I wouldn't be able to fit it in the stall. I just take DS out of the shopping cart and bring him into the stall with me.

Walmart have regular shopping carts and their bathrooms are wide enough to fit shopping carts in there.

If I am ever questioned, I will explain I am doing this for the safety of my child...although it should be common sense.
The stall? One of our grocery stores doesn't have a stall - there's only one toilet...the other one has two stalls, but nowhere near enough room to fit a buggy into the room itself.

I honestly don't know what I'd do if I were struck by the need to use the bathroom these days...it wasn't so logistically unfeasible with one child, but with two...I'm really not sure what I'd do...


----------



## BumbleBena (Mar 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tiffany_PartyOf5* 
I sooo would have found the nearest cop or called the cops on that lady.. Im the type to follow people home so I can call CPS on them for not having their kids in a carseat LOLOL..

You sound like my MIL, who thinks I'm being neglectful for homebirthing, not vaxing, and homeschooling. I'm just *waiting* for the day that woman calls CPS on me because she thinks it is the right thing to do, and her opinions of how a child should be raised/tended to are SO superior to mine. Honestly, who are any of us to judge another person without knowing their whole story? Sometimes preggo-brain sets in for me and I forget to fasten my seatbelt, so I'm sure I deserve to go to jail and have my baby taken away from me because I'm *SO* neglectful.

I really don't understand that mindset. I just don't. I wouldn't have *purposely* left my two very young children alone outside a bathroom, but I also have suffered from bowel problems in the past, and when you need to go *you need to go NOW.* Does that make me a bad person, or a bad mommy who deserves to have her kids taken away?

In my utopia, every bathroom would be nice and big and roomy, so when I have an emergency the kids can come in with me. But when I'm doubled over in pain, that pain is (believe it or not) the first thing on my mind. And sometimes it isn't feasible to bring the kids in. Maybe she had a DH who was supposed to be watching the kids and wandered off. Then who is at fault? And why does said fault fall squarely on this woman's shoulders? Maybe she took out the anger she felt on this (hypothetical) DH on the woman who judged her. Just a thought.


----------



## mraven721 (Mar 10, 2004)

I think this thread has been discussed out. I'm closing it and asking for edits when I get a chance. Any questions, PM me. Do Not start a new thread on this topic. Thanks, Michelle


----------

