# High "bubble" palate--anyone with experience with this, please help



## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

After 4 months of constant BFing pain, 4 LC visits, about 10 billion different thrush treatments, and uncounted tears, my baby was "diagnosed" with a high "bubble" palate yesterday. I still can't believe it--we have been so mystified for so long, and then the LC just stuck her finger in her mouth and said "OH, here's the problem."

I am finding very little information about this problem on the 'net. We tried some positioning stuff with the LC, mostly just attempting to get more breast into her mouth, and it helped some, but not that much. Also, I have to very aggressive with her for it to work at all--she hates it, and it's tiring.

I have worked hard on her latch; it is about as good as it can be and looks good from the outside. We use asymmetric latch. She is gaining *okay*--about 4-5 oz/week. To sustain that I have always had to nurse an awful lot (she will nurse 45 minutes at a time if I let her).

Has anyone had experience with this? Did it get better? When? Any positioning suggestions? Did you pump some of the time? I am considering buying an electric pump and pumping 2-3 feedings a day to help my nipples heal. They are not cracked or bleeding anymore, but are permanently purple at the tips and always bright red when they come out of her mouth. They are incredibly sore and sensitive and I can't bear for anyone or anything to brush against them. Must wear a bra 24/7.

I have also considered going to exclusive pumping.







I don't like the idea, and I'm sure she wouldn't either, but the thought of 8 more months of this just makes me want to tear my hair out. Nursing ALWAYS hurts. It is a major operation to get her on and positioned just right; I have to use tons of pillows and really concentrate. I can't nurse lying down. NIP is really hard and awful because I don't have my gazillion pillows to help and because latching is so painstaking.

Any support, ideas, or experience much appreciated.


----------



## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

sounds like y'all have been having a really rough go of it. i don't have much to offer except hugs. your story did remind me of an article i read a while ago on the compleat mother site about a high arched palate and reynaud's syndrome. don't know if that's the same thing as a high "bubble" palate or not, but here's the link if you want to check it out -- http://www.compleatmother.com/arch_raynaud.htm . hope she grows and it gets better soon.


----------



## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

Do a search for wombat's posts in the breastfeeding forum and PM her; she had the exact same thing with her dd. It took about 4 months to get her dd on the breast exclusively but she did do it - her dd was a tiny little peanut and it took some growing before her mouth got bigger and she could nurse well.

They're still going strong about about 16 months. I hope it works out for you two!


----------



## wombat (Nov 3, 2002)

Yes my dd had what the LCs said was a "high arch to her palate". I guess there's all kinds of variations to the high palate but the problem is the same - the baby can't draw the nipple back far enough into the mouth. This causes the pain and makes the babies attempts at suckling less effective.

I saw about 3 LCs who all assured me that babies grow out of this. And mine did too. What does your baby weigh now? Mine was only 6lb 3oz at birth so it took until about 16 weeks before we got to exclusive nursing. Also my left boob is bigger and rounder and that nipple is also bigger so it took a bit longer for dd to 'grow into' that left boob. It stopped hurting on the right side well before the left side.

So at 4 mo, I think you're probably over the worst of it by now. It should only get easier as baby gets bigger. I found it really hard after about the first 6 weeks cause of course everyone tells you "but nursing shouldn't hurt".

BTW I couldn't use the asymmetric latch technique. I tried so hard cause everyone told me that's easier but for us it was harder. Maybe cause dd also had such a little mouth. When I stopped trying that and just aimed the nipple dead center and tried to make a nipple sandwich, it actually caused me less pain and she'd latch on better. My advice is take all the advice and try it out but improvise on your own when things don't work. You and baby are a unique combination.

And you're right, there's so little information about palate variations out there. Dental sites mention it more often. I guess when the majority of the population is bottle feeding, no one is interested in studying these palate problems and their effect on breastfeeding.


----------



## wombat (Nov 3, 2002)

Oh forgot to comment on your pumping question:

My dd had immediate problems with weight gain. Lost 14% of her bodyweight by day 5. So we were supplementing from day 5.

If your nipples aren't cracked or bleeding then I'd avoid pumping if you can. Reason I say this is because part of the reason, I couldn't get dd to exclusively nurse before 16weeks was because she developed strong nipple preference from the bottles. I'd especially avoid pumping/supplementing at this late stage in the game. At 4 mo you could almost be there! And if baby develops bad latching habits from supplementing then it'll only slow your progress and compound the latching problems, kwim? Syringe finger feeding also make my dd's latch worse. She had strong nipple preferences though - I've heard from others that their babies could go back and forth from syringes or bottles whatever to nipple without major problems.

I found taking ibuprufen/motrin helped to get me through. And on bad days, I'd take a 800mg maximum dose. It took the edge off the pain.

And I empathise about the effort in getting baby latched on. I couldn't nurse lying down until about 5-6 months and then it wasn't very good. And I mostly stayed home cause I had to sit on a certain sofa, with my boppy and dd had to be positioned just so. NIP was totally out of the question. And no one else I knew who was nursing had to do all this - they all made it look so simple and that made me feel even worse.


----------



## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Thanks for the replies. Wombat, it is really helpful to hear from someone else with this problem...just knowing that someone else knows what it is like helps. I agree, all my friends make nursing look so easy and enjoyable and it really hurts to have our BFing relationship be so difficult and painful. I have also felt like I must be some kind of uncoordinated idiot all this time because of all the "it shouldn't hurt" talk.

Eleanor is about 13 pounds. She was 8 lbs at birth. We did supplement for a few days her first week because she lost 10% of her birth weight, but her gain has always been (barely) good enough. She has an occasional bottle (maybe once/week) of EBM and takes it well. I haven't noticed her latch getting weird after a bottle, but since we do it so rarely, it might not be obvious. She never showed any signs of rejecting the breast after a bottle. She loves the boob, actually, and is a major comfort nurser (ow).

Did your pain disappear suddenly or quickly? How much did your DD weigh when it started to decrease?


----------



## wombat (Nov 3, 2002)

"I have also felt like I must be some kind of uncoordinated idiot all this time because of all the "it shouldn't hurt" talk."








Yeah I used to studiously observe the moms at LLL, you know holding their 2 week old baby in the cradle position, nursing away. I think it was about 5-6 months before we could use the cradle position. I started out using the football hold and when dd got too big for that, I used cross cradle on the boppy.

At her 4 mo WBC she weighed 12.0 lb and at 6 mo WBC she weighed 14 lb 4 oz. So it was when she hit that 12 lb mark it started to get easier. It was kinda gradual and like I said took longer on one side cause that side was bigger. I remember one LC saying that babies often outgrow their latch problems by the time they hit 11 or 13 lbs - that these weights seem to be some kinda milestone.

Her weight percentile started at the 25th and by 9 mo she was down to about 5th % where she's stayed.

I do remember by about 5-6 mo I just realized one day that nursing no longer hurt. And I no longer had to constantly watch her latch and be so painstaking about positioning her every time.

The high palate issue certainly affected our BF relationship a lot but I'm not sure how typical our experience was because we had other problems too - c/s complications, thrush, dd's SMALL mouth, the nipple preference issues cause of the syringe finger feeding and bottles. Hopefully other moms would get BF sorted out a lot sooner than we did.


----------



## sarahwebb (Feb 12, 2002)

If you're going to pump and supplement, you might try using a supplemental nurser. My second son, born May 5, has had some latch, tight frenulum and weight gain issues. I supplemented with a bottle a few times but got concerned about doing a bottle regularly this early one and got a supplemental nurser a couple of days ago. I've had good luck with it. Of course, it won't alleviate your pain, but you'll get more "bang" for your nursing because she'll be getting more volume. You can also be sure she's getting enough hind milk by pumping right after she nurses and fully emptying your breast.

Good luck!
Sarah


----------



## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

I can't do the cradle hold either, wombat. I feel like the kid who got held back a grade or something.

Sarah, I have thought about the SNS. That way she would still get the comfort of the boob and, hopefully, nursing sessions might be quicker (since she doesn't get the milk out all that well from the boob). I guess I wonder if it would make her nursing even more painful to have something else poking around in there or if it could mess up the latch. Also, are they reasonable in cost?

I have also thought about cup supplementing or finger feeding. I guess I need to do more research. I am not sure which nipples would be best for the bottles, either.


----------

