# How do you deal with your kids when they simple won't listen and follow through on very basic requests?



## 3*is*magic (Sep 13, 2007)

I really want to understand and try the whole GD way of approaching this, but I am getting really frustrated with my 5 and 3.5 year old DDs and am pretty much at the end of my rope. I have tried a number of different ways of approaching this and have come to conclusion that the ONLY thing that works is a) screaming my head off at them or b) threatening to take/throw away something they enjoy, such as the Valentine's candy DD #1 was given by a friend yesterday.

An example: we need to be at preschool at 9 AM which means we need to be in the car pulling out of the driveway at 8:50. I do not like to be late. It's a huge pet peeve of mine, and something I do not want the kids to get into the habit of or think is OK. The girls are always dressed and fed and ready to go by 8:30, so they are not rushed. At 8:40 or 8:45 I ask them to go into the mudroom and please put on their coats while I warm up the car and get their younger brother ready to go and into his car seat. They ignore me. I ask again, making sure that they can see and hear me. They say OK, but make no move to actually do what they have been asked to do. I ask, nicely, again, that they PLEASE get going so we are not late. They drag their feet to the mudroom and proceed to dance, sing, whine, complain and basically do anything but put their coats on. At which point I start to LOSE IT, and let them know that if they do not put their coats on IMMEDIATELY I will replace the chocolate milk in their lunchboxes with water or some similar threat. They burst into tears, yell, scream and sob. I am ready to explode.

Similar scenarios play out over things like putting the caps back on the markers, picking up the crayons off the floor, putting shoes in the shoe cubby instead of the floor, replacing the dozens of books they took out back in the bookshelf. None of these are tasks that my children are incapable of. They do them routinely at school and at home _if they feel like it_. But generally, they _don't_ feel like it until I reach the end of my rope.

I have friends who simply expect nothing from their kids by way of picking up or completing tasks, but, to be blunt, their kids have the attitude that they are entitled to have adults wait on them and should not be expected to take some level of responsibility for themselves. That doesn't fly here. I don't ask my kids to do things that are age inappropriate, but I do expect that when I ask them to put their coats on or pick up all the play food, they'll do what they have been asked to do without making a big scene or being asked repeatedly.

I hate yelling. Especially when it's close to bedtime or time for school. I don't want my kids to fall asleep thinking about how shrill their mom is.

Thoughts?

ETA - Just so you know, they LOVE school, so the dilly-dallying has nothing to do with avoiding school.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I think all kids dilly-dally getting ready to get out the door. Every single morning, my daughter dilly-dallies getting her gear on to go to the bus stop for kindergarten. Every single morning. I don't yell but I do become a bit of a broken record. "We have to leave the house in 10 minutes." "We have to leave the house in 8 minutes." "We have to leave the house in 6 minutes." "We have to leave the house in 4 minutes. Have you used the bathroom?" "We have to leave the house in 3 minutes. Time to put on your boots." Etc. As I do this I physically help get the hat and what-not on if that'll move things along. My daughter anyway just needs constant reminding. She is so easily distracted. I think it's just an age thing - they're very distractable and can't stay focused that easily.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Yes, all kids dawdle.

It seems like you have hit upon a meaningful peice of information -- the kids respond when the stakes are high. I think the problem is that you are using arbitrary consequences instead of using more meaningful choices. "_Put on your coats or no chocolate milk,_" doesn't really teach anything meaningful about life. _"Everyone who wants a ride to school should have their coats on in 2 minutes!"_ might be more meaningful. If you are going to use a consequence, it should have a logical connection to the behavior you want to change. Otherwise, you might get cooperation in the short term, but they won't have learned anything that will "stick" in their minds for next time, and they are likely to become resentful and angry about the control tactics.

I also dislike being late, and I used to tell my older son that if made himself late for preschool by dawdling, then we would just take the day off and stay home, because I felt it was rude to disrupt class by being late. He also loved preschool, and this motivated him to stay on task when getting ready. OTOH, if we missed school now and then, I tried to be relaxed and nice about it. "_Oh well, we'll try again tomorrow. What shall we do at home today?"_ The lesson of having missed school was not lost on him, but I certainly didn't need to rub it in, kwim?

I don't think you need to pair every direction with the threat of a consequence, but it might be helpful to start using "When.......Then......" statements when you give directions. (I don't like "If.... Then...." because "If" sounds like a threat, and it also makes it sound like your directions are optional. If you say "If" you leave yourself open for the possibility of "If not." ) But "When.... Then...." statements help kids understand that life has a daily life has natural progression to it, and that often unpleasant tasks are followed by nicer activities. Eg. _When your coats are on, then we'll go to school. When the books are stacked up, then we'll choose one to one to read. When the caps are on the markers, then we'll be able to fix our snack. When the blocks are put away, then we can take out the playdough._

I'm sure its hard to stay energetic with three little ones, but you could also try being playful. I carried a stop watch when my kids were that age -- _"I'm going to time how long it takes you to get your coats on. Ready, set go!"_ They loved it.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

My daughter also likes to daddle and she needs to have me either right in the room with her to follow through with a request a lot of times especially when it isn't really a request she wants to do. When I know it is going to be a slow morning I will just put her shoes on for her and then hold out her coat and we get going that way otherwise I can usually get her to do it by asking if she needs me to help her find a place to sit and put her shoes on or if she wants to find a place herself.

I find that questions like "What are you suppossed to be doing now?" and when/then phrasing also work very well to redirect her attention to what she is suppossed to be doing. I also find that just redirecting her back to cleaning up and telling her she needs to finish that task before getting another also works. I have also found it is very effective to tell her that she will have cold feet if she doesn't put her shoes on and I will be angry if I have to carry her out to the car. She knows that I am not joking, she will have cold feet, and I am willing to carry her out when we need to leave and put her shoes on her while she is in her carseat, and I will definitely be angry that it got to that point.

She will leave clean up if it is a big job and I leave the room for a while and if she doesn't want to go she will not put her shoes on and get ready if I go get things ready to go while I am asking her to get ready. I take this into account when I am preparing us to get ready because it is faster to redirect or plan than to fight. There are times though when she will refuse to do a task, usually it happens when a task is so big or when I have also been playing and then ask her to clean up alone. I find that helping her to do the task gets her reingaged at times like these. I don't think it gives her a sense of entitlement to have help, it gives the message that if you make a mess you clean it up no matter how old you are.


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## hubris (Mar 8, 2003)

For me, a large part of it is my own perspective. The words I use to describe what my children are doing (like not listening, dilly-dallying, etc) often reflect my own control issues.







I find that I get a lot more frustrated if I'm digging my own heels in and enforcing my agenda rather than looking at the situation from my kids' perspective.

So first, for me, it's important for me to rephrase what's happening in more objective terms, rather than my own negative, subjective, agenda-driven, controlling terms. Sometimes just that allows me to relax enough to get through a situation without being a mean person.

A while back I came up with a sort of checklist to keep my DH and I more respectful of our kids:

*1. Does it really have to be done?*
Often, the things we ask our kids to do aren't really necessary. Yes, we want them to be done, but nothing horrible will happen if it isn't done. If that's the case, I remind myself to just relax.

*2. Does it have to be done by them?*
If I can't relax about it, if it's important to me but not vital to life, then maybe I need to be the one to do it. I think sometimes we feel like "I'll be darned if I pick up the crayons, I didn't make the mess, they need to learn to clean up,"
There's this sense that if we do it this time, we're the kids' slaves, and that we must _teach them a lesson_!!! Sometimes we need to tell that voice in our heads to shut up. In general, if you're modeling helpfulness and encouraging the kids to participate in taking care of the home and their belongings, they WILL grow up to be decent human beings who usually clean up after themselves.

More often than not, my kids chip in. Sometimes it's ok for me to just go ahead and do it. And you know what? Sometimes my husband picks up a mess I made. Is he teaching me to treat him as my slave? Nonsense.

*3. Does it have to be done right now?*
Often we want something to be done right this moment, but really, it can wait a while, be scheduled differently, take longer, etc.

With this in mind, maybe I need to...
- discuss the task with my child and agree on a time when it will be done that is agreeable to both of us
- plan my morning better so that I anticipate the slowness with which my kids get ready to leave
- build spare time into my schedule to allow for unforseen delays
- work on my patience so that I'm not so easily frustrated by how long things take

*4. Can it be done in another way?*
If something really does have to be done right now by the kids, how can I motivate them to work with my agenda? Can I make it fun? Can I negotiate a deal? Can we sing? Can we work together? Do we need to do some prep work the night before?


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## 3*is*magic (Sep 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaduck* 
Yes, all kids dawdle.

It seems like you have hit upon a meaningful peice of information -- the kids respond when the stakes are high. *I think the problem is that you are using arbitrary consequences instead of using more meaningful choices. "Put on your coats or no chocolate milk," doesn't really teach anything meaningful about life. "Everyone who wants a ride to school should have their coats on in 2 minutes!" might be more meaningful.* If you are going to use a consequence, it should have a logical connection to the behavior you want to change. Otherwise, you might get cooperation in the short term, but they won't have learned anything that will "stick" in their minds for next time, and they are likely to become resentful and angry about the control tactics.

I also dislike being late, and *I used to tell my older son that if made himself late for preschool by dawdling, then we would just take the day off and stay home, because I felt it was rude to disrupt class by being late.* He also loved preschool, and this motivated him to stay on task when getting ready. OTOH, if we missed school now and then, I tried to be relaxed and nice about it. "_Oh well, we'll try again tomorrow. What shall we do at home today?"_ The lesson of having missed school was not lost on him, but I certainly didn't need to rub it in, kwim?

I don't think you need to pair every direction with the threat of a consequence, but it might be helpful to start using "When.......Then......" statements when you give directions. (I don't like "If.... Then...." because "If" sounds like a threat, and it also makes it sound like your directions are optional. If you say "If" you leave yourself open for the possibility of "If not." ) But "When.... Then...." statements help kids understand that life has a daily life has natural progression to it, and that often unpleasant tasks are followed by nicer activities. Eg. _When your coats are on, then we'll go to school. When the books are stacked up, then we'll choose one to one to read. When the caps are on the markers, then we'll be able to fix our snack. When the blocks are put away, then we can take out the playdough._

I'm sure its hard to stay energetic with three little ones, but you could also try being playful. I carried a stop watch when my kids were that age -- _"I'm going to time how long it takes you to get your coats on. Ready, set go!"_ They loved it.

*BOLD* is mine







. They particularly struck me as interesting and insightful. I might try the "we can't be late, so if you don't put on your coats, we will miss school today" next week, though I'll have to strategize how to handle it of one DD does put her coat on and the other does not....

Thank you for your thoughtful reply and ideas, they are really helpful. Also thank you for acknowledging how hard it is to maintain energy with three little children. I just always feel so defeated and worn out.

I guess what I find really hard is when I can't find a compelling "when...then..." Sometimes I need them do do things without a reward or consequence they think is meaningful. I really want my girls to pick up all of the animals off the floor before dinner. They don't CARE about dinner. I could say "When you pick up the animals, we'll sit down to eat" but that doesn't get them going. So instead I resort to "there will be no dessert if you don't pick up your animals before dinner." And when they don't do as I asked, and they don't get dessert, they get upset. And so do I. But for some reason, they are not compelled to pick up the next night, and we repeat the scenario.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *3*is*magic* 
*BOLD* is mine







. They particularly struck me as interesting and insightful. I might try the "we can't be late, so if you don't put on your coats, we will miss school today" next week, though I'll have to strategize how to handle it of one DD does put her coat on and the other does not....

Thank you for your thoughtful replay and ideas, they are really helpful. Also thank you for acknowledging how hard it is to maintain energy with three little children. I just always feel so defeated and worn out.

I guess what I find really hard is when I can't find a compelling "when...then..." Sometimes I need them do do things without a reward or consequence they think is meaningful. I really want my girls to pick up all of the animals off the floor before dinner. They don't CARE about dinner. I could say "When you pick up the animals, we'll sit down to eat" but that doesn't get them going. So instead I resort to "there will be no dessert if you don't pick up your animals before dinner." And when they don't do as I asked, and they don't get dessert, they get upset. And so do I. But for some reason, they are not compelled to pick up the next night, and we repeat the scenario.

I understand the temptation to say stuff like that (and I definitely admit to resorting to such things myself!), but maybe your girls are feeling over-controlled. Getting coats on so that you can be on time to school is one thing, but is picking up their animals before dinner instead of after dinner really something to get in a power struggle over? Maybe if you loosened your standards on some of the smaller issues, your girls would be more likely to understand that when you request something of them, it's something important, and would be more likely to listen.


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## LilyGrace (Jun 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *3*is*magic* 

I guess what I find really hard is when I can't find a compelling "when...then..." Sometimes I need them do do things without a reward or consequence they think is meaningful. I really want my girls to pick up all of the animals off the floor before dinner. They don't CARE about dinner. I could say "When you pick up the animals, we'll sit down to eat" but that doesn't get them going. So instead I resort to "there will be no dessert if you don't pick up your animals before dinner." And when they don't do as I asked, and they don't get dessert, they get upset. And so do I. But for some reason, they are not compelled to pick up the next night, and we repeat the scenario.

This is one time where I think I would revert back to being _very specific_, and using the touch, talk, listen approach.

I find my slightly flighty 8yo does much better when I go over to him and tell him exactly what I want to have happen in very few words:

<scratch his head to get his attention>
_Hey, bud. You need to pick up the animals._ (or 5 animals, or 3, or all the cats..)
<give it a second>
_I'm going to finish dinner. What's your job?_
<sigh>_To put away the animals._
_How long do you think that will take?_
<gives time, or "until the ____ is done">
_Thank you._

Or, if it seems really overwhelming, that's when I turn over a sand timer. Very visual, short 30sec - 3 minutes (depending on the timer), and the job is done amazingly fast. Since they know they only have to work until the sand is gone, they don't mind as much as an open ended job.

Putting off meals doesn't make me feel good. We have a rule here that the usual stuff gets done, but no play time, tv time, computer time, or ds time until the tasks are done.
"Can I watch a movie? "
"Sure! As soon as your chores are done!"
Repeat ad nauseum.

When they were really little it was more a case of "say it once, do it with them the second time". I don't feel like wasting my voice, honestly. I'll say it the first time, then if I need to say it again, the child is picked up or has his hand held as we walk over and I say it as we start to do it. "You need to put on your jacket." Second time - walk child to the jacket "You need to put on your jacket". No asking, no making it seem like it's optional. Just "it's this time and this is what needs to be done."


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

What I would do is stop relying on them to get their own coats on while you get the baby ready. They don't seem able to do this on their own without your presence- by the time you're yelling and threatening, you're also physically there with them.

Go into the mud room with them and help them with their coats- whether that means physically helping put them on or just keeping them company and reminding them at every single step. Then make them wait inside, all bundled up, while you get the baby ready, and then you all walk to the car together.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Quote:

I guess what I find really hard is when I can't find a compelling "when...then..." Sometimes I need them do do things without a reward or consequence they think is meaningful. I really want my girls to pick up all of the animals off the floor before dinner. They don't CARE about dinner. I could say "When you pick up the animals, we'll sit down to eat" but that doesn't get them going. So instead I resort to "there will be no dessert if you don't pick up your animals before dinner." And when they don't do as I asked, and they don't get dessert, they get upset. And so do I. But for some reason, they are not compelled to pick up the next night, and we repeat the scenario.
I don't think it always has to bee "compelling." Just something to indicate that there is a valid reason for moving things along. Kids like to know the order of things.

I've been kind of lucky with the picking-up thing -- I've always been able to say, _"The dog thinks he can chew plastic animals that are left on the floor."_ Which the kids know from experience is true!

In your shoes, I think I might let go of the expectation that toys get picked up before dinner. I might instead, suggest that one set of toys gets put away before another gets taken out, regardless of how long they linger over picking up.

Or, hand each child a bowl and ask them to see who can pick up the most plastic animals. Or sugggest that one child pick up reptiles and one pick up mammals.

Going back to the dinner idea though, do you think your kids would be interesting in helping with dinner? "_After the animals are picked up, I am ready to have two helpers in the kitchen. I need a cheese grater and a lettuce ripper."_


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## 3*is*magic (Sep 13, 2007)

I guess I should clarify, I don't actually make them clean up *all* their toys (or even just the animals) every night before dinner - that was just tonight's scenario







.

Tonight I did want them to get going on picking up something before dinner because I knew they would not be up for it after dinner. We have a pretty set-in-stone routine in the evening - dinner at 5:00, jammies at 6:15, teeth, stories, sometimes a 30 min. show or a family Lego session and then bed by 7:30.

Also, I feel like I should say that I never expect that they'll clean _everything_ up, I usually give each of them a category. Tonight Lily Jane was the pick up the animals and put them in a basket, and Nina was to put all the play food in another basket. Neither of these is a taxing job, IMO, and was really just the tip of the "picking up iceberg". I still have a huge mess to clean up. In fact, it was after Nina came downstairs one morning and asked (rather snarkily, I might add) "why didn't you clean up all our toys, Mommy? You ALWAYS clean up our toys." that I decided that it was time for the kids to take some (not much) responsibility for cleaning up after themselves. A PP asked if it was truly important for these things to get done, and worth the power struggle. The answer, for me, is yes. We live in a tiny house. In order for me to relax and enjoy my house in the evening, I like it to be neat and picked up. I think that the kids should contribute something to that effort. I don't expect perfection, and I don't think that having them pick up everything is realistic, but I don't think that asking a 5 year old to gather the play food she spread across 4 rooms over the course of the day and put it in a basket is asking too much. I am not really interested in negotiating it with them, though I often do give choices ("do you want to put books away, or blocks?"). I ask them to do so little during the day - it really boils down to the coats and the picking up that I am sick of battling over. I try very, very hard to save my "no"s and let them do whatever they feel like doing during the day - messy art projects, watch shows, make cookies, etc. I guess I'd like a little cooperation in return.


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## purple_kangaroo (Feb 20, 2006)

What I find works well for me (when I manage to do it consistently) is ask once, and if they don't do it then I help them to do it. So with the coats I would ask them to put on the coats, and then if they didn't do it I would matter-of-factly pick up the coat and start putting it on them.

How important, though, is it that they actually wear their coats? If it's not dangerously cold there, I would probably be tempted to say, "We're leaving in 5 minutes. It's cold out, so I think you'll want to put on your coats to help you stay warm." Then if they don't put on the coats, just say, "Do you want to wear your coat or carry it?" If they choose to carry the coats, they might get cold, but that's how they learn. Unless, of course, it's actually dangerously cold.


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## singin'intherain (Feb 4, 2006)

I think your expectations sound reasonable. I'm going to continue subbing. Keep the responses coming!


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

It sounds like you've gotten into a spiral where they think they don't have to listen until you yell or threaten. If anyone is going to put a stop to that, it's going to have to be you. (eta: Whoa! That sounded way less nice than I intended! What I meant was finding a way to stop that spiral- either an "ask once, then try a different approach", or try a Secret of Parenting approach, or something else)

Have you checked out Secret of Parenting? He has some very effective ways to get kids to *do* things we want them to do. There's no punishments or yelling. But it's quite on the authoritative side.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *3*is*magic* 
Similar scenarios play out over things like putting the caps back on the markers, picking up the crayons off the floor, putting shoes in the shoe cubby instead of the floor, replacing the dozens of books they took out back in the bookshelf. None of these are tasks that my children are incapable of. They do them routinely at school and at home _if they feel like it_. But generally, they _don't_ feel like it until I reach the end of my rope.

For markers, I would do one of two things- I would tell ds that it's important that the markers have the lids on so they don't get dried out. I have started telling him that it's not MY job to pick up the toys he played with. He got them out, so I expect HIM to help clean up. (though I don't really like the message that sends- one of YOUR job and MY job, and not 'we work together as a family to help each other out') I tell him that I will certainly help though. (he's 3.5). So, usually that would do it, and he would at least help.
If not, my reaction would depend on my mood. If I didn't mind picking them up, I'd do it. Then I'd tell him that I had to it myself, and next time I want him to help me. But if I didn't want to, I'd tell him that if *I* have to pick them up by myself, I'm going to put the markers up.

With shoes and coats, I tell ds "Shoes go in the closet" and if that doesn't do it, I tell him that I want him to put the shoes in the closet now. I insist until he does it. Kind of the waiting for the bus thing from Secret of Parenting.
I also expect him to hand me his coat (instead of dropping it on the floor) so I can hang it up. Same thing.

I'm on the lenient side when it comes to picking ds's toys up. BUT he helps me out with a LOT of stuff. He'll happily run and grab a towel if I need one, he helps hand the laundry, do the dishes, basically anything that I even allude to having any desire for his help, he's on it (as long as its not toys). lol.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Several thoughts (probably random)

when do you get a break? You sound like I do when I'm needing a little time to rest and recover. You've got 3 kids under 5, that's a lot of work, and constant attendance to little things, which can really grind you down. Do you have an opportunity to spend some time every week where you don't have to worry about kids/house, etc.? Are you an extrovert? Do you need to get out of the house and connect with grown ups? Are you an introvert? do you need someone to take all the kids so you can stay home and curl up with a good book or MDC?

I second the idea of just taking them to car without their coats on. The natural consequence of not putting your coat on is being cold. My dd is "warm blooded" and doesn't like to wear a coat. Here in Oregon, she can get away with that a lot. (We carry a coat a lot of places.) When we went to my parents house in Minnesota, it took 2 steps out the front door before she realized she _needed_ the coat. If they're going from the house to the car (through a garage?) they may not feel like they need it.

I do also physically lead my children when I need them to do something and they're just sitting there. I will take my dd's hand and put a toy in it and lead her over to the toy box. (Yes, for those who object, it's coercive, but it's a lot better than the alternatives.)

I have found for my kids, that I need to be right there doing things with them in order for things to really work. Yes, my 3 year old is _capable_ of getting her coat on, but she _likes_ to have help sometimes. Ds was especially like this for getting dressed. One of his 'love languages' is acts of service. When I refuse to help him, he interprets that as not being loved. That realization has helped me relax a lot when he asks me to do things that I KNOW he can do.

Cleaning up at our house only works if we're also cleaning too. As part of our bedtime routine, we have 15 minutes of cleaning a night. The kids are given specific tasks - sometimes it's picking up toys. Last night it was scrubbing the sink the bathroom. I figure if they're scrubbing the sink, I've got time to pick up a few toys. They love doing 'real' chores and hate picking up toys. Some days they do need to pick up toys because we can't mop the floor if I can't find it! But since we're all picking up, it helps.

Now this doesn't mean I don't still nag. I do still lose my temper at bedtime or when I'm in a rush. I get a lot less grumpy when I've had some time to myself. (Dh and I trade off the bedtime duties - I do 2 nights, he does 2. It makes a huge difference.)

And part of it is development. The only thing I need to regularly nag ds about these days is changing his socks! (Why the child gets dressed _every single day_ without changing his socks is beyond me!)

I second the Secret of Parenting.


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## mary3mama (Apr 2, 2004)

subbing too.

I thought after my first son, now 8.5yo, and how hard it was to get through his early years...that I'd have the resources and experience to work through all of it with second son, now 4.5yo.

Nope.

Having to learn everything all over again because he is such a different creature from his elder brother.

And the baby....we'll I'm sure I'll have to relearn everything for her in a few years too.


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## rainyday (Apr 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 
What I would do is stop relying on them to get their own coats on while you get the baby ready. They don't seem able to do this on their own without your presence- by the time you're yelling and threatening, you're also physically there with them.

Go into the mud room with them and help them with their coats- whether that means physically helping put them on or just keeping them company and reminding them at every single step. Then make them wait inside, all bundled up, while you get the baby ready, and then you all walk to the car together.









:
That seems like the natural consequence for not being ready on time. But I'd be really matter of fact about it, and I wouldn't make an issue about why they're getting their coats on before the baby is all ready.

I'd use a similar approach for something like the markers. I'd pick them up and put them away out of their reach. Next time they ask about them, I'd bring them out, but gently say that last time they were left out without lids, can they make sure they put the lids on this time or we won't be able to have markers to play with. And then, if lids don't go back on (with a reminder if you're around!), I'd just put them away again out of reach.

Do they like to race? That's a tactic that often makes clean up or getting into coats more fun. "I wonder if you can both get your coats and boots on before I'm back with the baby!" or "Let's see if you guys can get this bin filled up with the toys on the floor before I finish _____" Same thing for books on the floor, etc.

Also, remember they're little. Just because they are able to do isomething sometimes doesn't mean that they necessarily have the mental focus to do it all the time. Their abilities to do it will vary depending on what's going on, how distracted they are by something else, how well slept they are, etc. They don't have the same ability to just drop one thing and jump to something else that an older child or adult has.

We've also done silly games where just randomly throughout the day, I'll ask DC to do something like jump up and down or flap like a bird or count backwards from five - just to get them in the practice of listening a little more when I say something. My DS loves to do this, and I've found it makes a big difference!

If I really need something to be done, I will sometimes get down on my knees and ask DC to look at me, tell them what I need, and then have them REPEAT it back. Sometimes, despite looking at me while I said it, they can't tell me what I said. But not being able to answer gets their attention to listen when I tell them again!

I find that sometimes just gently asking, "Honey, do you remember what I asked you to do?" will get them moving. Sometimes the answer is no, and then we'll go through the above routine, and then they'll usually get moving.

They're still young enough that most kids that age really do want to please their parents, especially when they have a strong connection. I find it helps a lot to not take it personally! Not listening usually has a lot more to do with being distracted (even just by what's going on in their head) than with trying to ignore me or irritate me.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

I am glad we don't go to school.









Pat


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## Queen of my Castle (Nov 11, 2005)

I find myself in situations like this all the time- my oldest is younger- 3.5 and he's so distractable at this age- sometimes I get SOO frusterated that simple things are just incredible chores.
Like tonight- getting pj's on: 'Axel, stand up on your bed so we can get changed'. Axel climbs up on his headboard. 'Come down' He holds out his foot. 'Come down so I can get your shirt on, you're too high' He comes down, lays down. ' I can't get you dressed laying down. Ok, hold out your feet'. Kicks feet. Rolls over. puts bum in air... Every direction is met with opposite action, patience is being tried. I threaten him. If he accomodates me by standing up, he will then pay attention to something else or distract himself so he's twisting or not moving in an accomodating way. It takes 15 min to get his pj's on!
d

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hubris* 
*1. Does it really have to be done?*
*2. Does it have to be done by them?*
*3. Does it have to be done right now?*
*4. Can it be done in another way?*

I completely understand what you're saying, and perhaps it's just an age thing, but I find myself asking these questions all the time, and my requests are reasonable, and if I answered 'no' to them any more I would be a bad mother. So what do you do when you reach that point?? (I'm not trying to be snarky or anything. I just find lately I run out of skills)
A


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## LilyGrace (Jun 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Queen of my Castle* 

I completely understand what you're saying, and perhaps it's just an age thing, but I find myself asking these questions all the time, and my requests are reasonable, and if I answered 'no' to them any more I would be a bad mother. So what do you do when you reach that point?? (I'm not trying to be snarky or anything. I just find lately I run out of skills)
A

I think when I get to this point it's easier to repeat a small prayer (Lord, help me to accept the things I cannot change, change the things I can, and have the wisdom to know the difference), take a deep breath, and accept it. Pajamas? Ok, no pajamas tonight. Kid can go to bed as is. When it turns into a battle of wills or a game I have no patience for, and it's not something that dangerous, illegal, or immoral, then I need to back off and end it. Course, at age 3 if I said "okay, into bed, mister!" I'd probably get a "but I need my jammieeeessss!" wailed back, and problem would be solved quickly.


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## ayme371 (Jan 5, 2005)

Queen of my Castle said:


> I find myself in situations like this all the time- my oldest is younger- 3.5 and he's so distractable at this age- sometimes I get SOO frusterated that simple things are just incredible chores.
> Like tonight- getting pj's on: 'Axel, stand up on your bed so we can get changed'. Axel climbs up on his headboard. 'Come down' He holds out his foot. 'Come down so I can get your shirt on, you're too high' He comes down, lays down. ' I can't get you dressed laying down. Ok, hold out your feet'. Kicks feet. Rolls over. puts bum in air... Every direction is met with opposite action, patience is being tried. I threaten him. If he accomodates me by standing up, he will then pay attention to something else or distract himself so he's twisting or not moving in an accomodating way. It takes 15 min to get his pj's on!
> 
> I so hear you on this one. I try really hard not to get frustrated but after requesting numerous times I can feel the frustration. I like the suggestion of going to bed without the pj's and think I'll give it a try.
> ...


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Queen of my Castle* 
Like tonight- getting pj's on:

Unfortunately, there are many times when I'm quite short on patience. Fortunately, I'm getting better at being aware of those situations, and being aware of my limits.

We went through one of those phases where "jammie time" was interpreted by ds as "jump on the bed and do anything BUT get jammies on." The days that I had the patience, I just let it be and sat waiting for him to choose his jammies.
The other days, when I could feel the frustration, I'd leave the room and say "You just let me know when you're ready to get your jammies on." In kind of a boring voice, and go to do something else. Without fail, in seconds he'd be ready for his jammies. THEN I'd feel more cooperative with him and not feel so frustrated when he jumped


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## aschmied (Apr 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
I understand the temptation to say stuff like that (and I definitely admit to resorting to such things myself!), but maybe your girls are feeling over-controlled. Getting coats on so that you can be on time to school is one thing, but is picking up their animals before dinner instead of after dinner really something to get in a power struggle over? Maybe if you loosened your standards on some of the smaller issues, your girls would be more likely to understand that when you request something of them, it's something important, and would be more likely to listen.

There are lots of good ideas in th thread, but this one made me think about a situation we had with our 3yo this afternoon that we found enlightening.

We had pulled the fridge out from its nook to clean it, and she was enthralled with the "cave". DH was finishing cleaning it up, as I was getting the babe down for a nap. I heard him start arguing with DD about her getting out so he could push the fridge back in. He was trying so hard, and getting so frustrated. Finally he left it before he lost it. I got the babe down, went in, asked DD WHEN she would be ready to get out. She said she needed to eat the eggs that she was making - I asked if they were scrambled or fried, she said scrambled, ate her pretend eggs, and jumped out.

My interpretation is that DH made it an order, which left her no control, and no "out", so it became a power struggle. When that happens it only escalates.

This isn't to say that that ALWAYS works, but I get great mileage from it, and a reputation for a very compliant child.

Oh, and Deva3Mommy, we have that exact scenario all the time. I was amazed when I happened on it (out of sheer frustration). I am almost sorry compliance is so quick sometimes - I could use 5 minutes on something else!


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## MtBikeLover (Jun 30, 2005)

I do what a lot of other people posted already in that I ask my kids to get ready and if they don't, I start to help them do it themselves.

But another thing that has worked great for me is to say "I'll be waiting for you in the car." And then I go to the car and just wait for them to come. Of course, this only works when you can actually take the time to wait for them.


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## PancakeGoddess (Oct 8, 2004)

I think kids need more hands-on help with this kind of thing than most people really want to offer (including me!). I do think it's *possible* to get young children to comply, but unfortunately it usually does require threats of some kind or general stress.

I think leading the child to the shoes, putting them in their hands, etc, is a good way to go for the GD solution to the daily dawdle. My 4yo does well if I put his coat right in front of him, and he just flips it over his head. I would definitely just carry him out to the car without shoes/coat if he resisted this. In the cold van, he'll want them on (and be strapped in, too!)

I even need to lead my 10yo to the closet occasionally when it's time to go and he's just so distracted.

It's annoying, but personally I'd prefer my kids to have their heads a bit in the clouds than so firmly planted that they're stressed.

Eventually, they really do start getting themselves ready without help, on time.


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## gaialice (Jan 4, 2005)

Joining this quite late and just to say

Quote:


Originally Posted by *3*is*magic* 
The girls are always dressed and fed and ready to go by 8:30, so they are not rushed. At 8:40 or 8:45 I ask them to go into the mudroom and please put on their coats while I warm up the car and get their younger brother ready to go and into his car seat. They ignore me.

dress them up completely including the coat a little later.
I guess that the time between 8:30 and 8:45 is time you spend getting yourself or their brother ready. I would try shifting things around and getting the girls completely ready, including their coats and boots, at about 8:40. Spending 10 minutes in their coats won't kill them, and if they complain, you may remind them that this will be done until they can be held responsible for wearing their coats independently. Maybe this will motivate them or maybe you will need to do this for awhile......


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PancakeGoddess* 
I think kids need more hands-on help with this kind of thing than most people really want to offer (including me!). I do think it's *possible* to get young children to comply, but unfortunately it usually does require threats of some kind or general stress.

Yes, even with only one, it's a big pain. My five year old hates transitions, he gets distracted easily, and it takes a lot to get him to follow through on things without reminders. Your situation with three children, 3*is*magic, seems quite trying.

I'd probably plan to go with them into the mudroom and watch them put the coats on, even though it means budgeting extra time. What a bummer, because it would be so much easier if you could count on them to get ready while you get the baby into his seat and warm up the car. I don't think that this is a matter of being unwilling to comply, just distractable and unaware of the time.

When kids put on their coats at school, or put things away in cubbies at school, there is usually an adult there saying, "It's time to put away our books now!" and then a whole group of people doing it at the same time. You can create similar conditions at home. I don't love doing it though--it makes me feel like a drill sergeant.

I think we're doing a lot better with all this stuff lately, since I have been more consistently willing to supervise and he's been what? Older? I have no idea what shifted. I still have to hop from foot to foot during the morning transitions out of the house, though. "come on, come on!" So hard to be patient.


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## boheime (Oct 25, 2005)

A lot of great suggestions. One word that almost always gets help around here is the word "let's." Let's pick up the toys. Let's put away books. Let's get ready for dinner. The kids realize we are in it together.

Another thing that works is for them to realize that by them helping, you have time to help them. Can you put these books up while I get you a snack?


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## momofayden (Jan 8, 2007)

What do you do when NONE of those work.
Ex. "Whom ever wants a ride to school needs to put their jacket on" my son will say then i don't want to go to school. "Put your shoes on or you'll have to walk into school without shoes on", he'll walk into the snow to get to the car still no shoes and no shoes byt he time we hit school either. "Pick up your game boy and keep the games in their case", my son can't find his gameboy going on 5 months now and has no intention on looking for it. he would rather be without it. I can't live like this anymore. I don't know what i am doign wrong or how to fix it.


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## nancy926 (Mar 10, 2003)

The OP says she knows families where the parents pick up after the kids, and the kids expect that.

But she also said that her kids appear to assume SHE will pick up their toys (re: her DD asking snarkily why her mom hadn't picked up all the toys).

Perhaps they have too many toys?

My ideal response, which I am working on, is called Waiting for the Bus. I got the idea from an MDC thread. You state what needs to happen. "These toys are on the floor instead of in the basket."

Then you wait. Not impatiently. Not tapping your foot or glaring. You wait, like you're waiting for the bus.

I have found that most often, my kids do what is needed if I wait long enough. It is well under a minute of waiting. That seems like a long time while you are waiting, but it's really not long at all.

If they don't do it, I will do it if it's something I can do (i.e., I can pick up the toys. I can't put their coats and shoes on for them -- well, not without a tussle).

The problem is trying to reason with them. I think before about age 4, they don't understand reason. My 2-year-old would rather fight about brushing her teeth for 15 minutes than to take 1 minute and get them brushed.


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## moonlight mom (May 19, 2007)

All these ideas are so awesome and I can't wait to try them with my 3 year old that is going to the exact same thing. I can honestly say that he says "no" about 100 times per day.


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