# Moms dealing with elevated lead levels



## AnoriensMom (Feb 13, 2005)

As I am waiting for the results of my DD's 4th lead test it occured to me that I can't be the only mother going through this. This is a "tribe" I am reluctant to be in, but we found out when they did her 12 month blood test that her lead level was high (31). I am so glad we did that test. We are now giving her iron twice a day and have located the lead paint in and around the house. I would love to talk to other moms dealing with this. Have you had trouble giving your child the liquid iron? How do you get the stains off the teeth? Have you had the Dept of the Environment and Social Services come through your house? How long did it take for the lead to leave their system?


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## AnoriensMom (Feb 13, 2005)

I guess I should be glad that no one responded to my earlier post.


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## sfresco (Apr 17, 2004)

Hi, you are not alone, I have seen other mothers posting about this issue. Until 2 years ago we lived in a real old tenement type apartment. It had been repainted before we moved in when I was pregnant with dd1. Because the lead was well covered her lead levels were fine, never going above 5. When dd2 was born 4 years later I had lead tested at 6 months and it was already 14. Where we live in MA we were able to force landlords to de-lead. I was also giving her iron and cleaning like crazy. Iron levels went up after de-leading (this is normal) and since then have gone down. DD2 is 4 now and lead levels have been below 10 for 2 years. We have since bought a condo. There is lead in this building too. Isn't it great living in the northeast!? However the windows are replacement vinyl and the exterior of the house is sided. Windows I learned are a major form of contamination. The paint on the trim is in good condition and we plan to keep it that way. Some of the trim is natural wood and we would love to strip some of the painted woodwork but we will not do that until girls are older.

Both my girls are doing well, bright and energetic. PM me if you want. I know how crazy all this can make you feel.


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

Hey - we're still going through this and I know some natural stuff that will help. . . .pm me and I'll give you the 411.


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## Pagan_princess (Jul 17, 2004)

Yep, I'm part of this tribe too. Not one that I would love to be in, but here I am.

Three years ago, we discovered that our now almost 5 year old daughter had lead posioning. Her lead level at her highest was 47.8. She got it for the apartment that we live in. At that time, I never really knew much about what lead posioning was. All I knew was that it had been a big problem in the 80's and early 90's. I didn't even know there was lead paint still around.

My daughter had to be admitted to Buffalo Children's Hospital for six days for chelation treatment. That was the hardest thing that I have ever had to witness. Seeing my innocent baby deal with that, a nd being almost powerless in helping her. Watching her in pain seriously ripped my heart out of my chest. After 6 days her level was down to 21.3, and they finally let us take her home.

Yes, I had the county health dept. in and they took an assesment of our home to see where it was coming from. It was everywhere. They told me that I had to find some place to place Haylea-Ann while the abatement process was taking place, because she couldn't be back in the home until it was taken care of. At that time my support system was pretty much nil, so I was scared. Thankfully my next door neighbor took her, and let her stay with them until it got done. I was so grateful because if I couldn't find someplace for her to go, the state would've place her into foster care. And the sad part is my ex-landlord knew that it was here. He knew that it was a health risk to children, and he knew that when I moved into the apartment that I had children. My oldest son was 3 and I was a very visably 8 months pregnant when he moved in here. By law he was required to tell us that there was still lead based paint in the home. And he never did. What happened could have been prevented, if he would have just cared enough to say something to us.

We sued our old landlords and got Haylea-Ann a pretty nice settlement. If she uses it wisely as she grows older, she will never have to worry about money. But that is a small concilation to all the after effects of what she has had to deal with since then. There are still after effects that we may not see for years yet. My 4 year old baby may be sterile and not able to have her owb babies someday. That thought kills me.

Fortunently she has never had many of the problems that we were told that she could. She had been tested by a specialist that worked for my ex-landlord that Haylea-Ann was learning disabled. Which at that time worked to our advantage because it helped her settlement phase. But she has been tested at her school, and she is on the "Above Normal" charts in just about everything. She is very intelligent.

The things that we do have to work with is her temper. Because of what has happened, Haylea-Ann has a very hard time bringing herself back into control when she gets angry. We were warned that the lead could cause severe behavioral problems, but I definately wasn't prepared for what I got. When she is in a good mood she can be the sweetest most caring child you ever did see, but when she is mad or upset watch out. She has ripped apart her room, banged her head off things, and just generally having a hard time expressing how she is feeling. It is frustrating for me because disipline that you would use on a "regular" child does not work with her.

I am working with her school in trying to find some programs to help her, and our family. It's hard because there aren't many programs in the area for anything like this. So, now she school (HeadStart) is trying to help me find a specialist that can show me ways to cope with her behavior, and more importantly, help Haylea-Ann cope with how she feels sometimes.

It has been 3 1/2 years since all this began. Her lead level in December was 3.7. It is lowering, but as you can see it is a long process. I have been trying to find someone else on here that has gone through this same thing. It's nice to know that we aren't alone.


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## sincitymama (Sep 20, 2003)

I'm in htis tribe, sadly. I'll come back later with more of our story and probably lots of questions for those who've dealt with it longer.


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## sincitymama (Sep 20, 2003)

Told you I'd be back









We moved into our current apartment when ds was 3 months old. It's a pretty old house, and we knew coming in there was lead paint in the trim still. Doorways, windows. Our landlord(who is so fabulous) made sure we knew before formally agreeing. It's law here to test rental properties and inform tenants of hte results, also she has young kids so had everyhting tested when they moved in. Their youngest was a toddler at the time and they tested her levels pretty often to make sure her levels weren't elevated. it wa snever an issue, and that child is 3 1/2 now....
Also, htis apt has been completely redone since they bought the house. The tenant at the time was filthy and awful and everyhting had to be cleaned up. Like, floors ripped up and replaced due to cat boxes not taken care of, bag and bags of trash and cigarette butts, etc... Really gross. So the whole place has been completely cleaned, fresh paint, etc..

So, knowing there was lead paint we tested a little early. Our doc does it routinely at 12 months but we asked about it so we tested at 9 months. That was..let me think...September. His lead level then was 11. Just barely over 'acceptable'. We tried not to panic. Made a bigger effort to wash his hands and face more often, clean everyhting more regularly. He was just starting to be more interested in solid foods so we made sure he was getting good healthy foods. Also at that time, we were just coming into a new england winter. We always plastic our windows up for the cold season(saves a TON on heating bills) and we thought that would help a lot too. This apt has lots of windows, the really low ones. We assumed that not having access would help reduce his exposure.

At his 12 month appointment in December, we tested again. Up to 13. Ok. Wash hands and face before eating every time, also started the habit of wiping hands and face at every single diaper change. Wipe everyhting down with damp rags at least twice a week. I have a rotating schedule for this so the whole house gets done twice weekly. All the windows and doorways and stuff like that. Also cleaning hte kitchen floor more often, vacuuming more often (buying hepa filter bags for the vacuum). Learned that iron and calcium can help the body process lead and get it out. He already eats lots of yogurt and cheese and loves green veggies like broccoli. I also added green leasfy veggies. Spinach, kale, etc.. He can't eat them raw so what I do is cook up a bunch all at once until it's really soft, stick it in the blender, and freeze in an ice cube tray. In addition to other foods, try to get one or two cubes a day into him. Luckily he loves it. Then I read that lead is absorbed the most in the lower intestines and regular bowel movements help push it out before it's absorbed. So I monitor his food to make sure he poops at least once a day. Oatmeal and applesauce. Also raisins, he eats a lot of those and I hear they're good for iron.

So then we just tested a couple weeks ago, at his 15 month appointment. Since December his levels have jumped to 18. Now I'm really freaked out.

I just read(somewhere here I think) that when dealing with lead, yes you need to damp dust often and damp mop and vacuum-but you should be using paper towels, not rags that you wash and reuse! I had no idea! Still not sure why, maybe it stays on the cleaning rags even after washing? I don't know, but here I was feeling so good about not using as many paper products and stuff. That's out the window. If it'll keep my son healthier I'll have an extra bag of trash each week.







:

I just don't know what else to do now. We're trying to get in a good, thorough, spring clean. Wash every damn surface in our home. Vacuum out every nook and cranny. Wash everyhting that's washable. My husband is going to put together a few friends to help him put a fresh coat of paint over all the trim. Ds and I will just have to plan a whole day out of hte house so they can get it done, that's easy enough for me. We're trying to find ways to rearrange furniture so he has less access to the windows. We're planning to move(we were planning it before we got the most recent results, but a lead free building is a must now for our next place(cheap, lead free, good location, 2-3 bedroom apt in new england, lol. yeah right, we're dreaming) but not until fall.

We've been in touch with the health dept. More accurately, they've been in touch with us from the beginning. Over 10 they contact you. I'm not sure at what point they actually come out to your home. The woman who is our contact there has been very nice to us. She is sending a kit so we can test the water. In the meantime I've switched ds to bottled water just in case. If there is lead int he water from the pipes that might expain the jump in his levels, as he eats a lot more now so drinks a lot of water too.

I don't know what else to do. Should I supplement with iron and calcium? What is a good brand, or does it have to be Rx? How much? What kind of natural solutions are there? I'd be very interested int hat, can you post it here? I'm sure lots of people would find in helpful.

Stinks being part of this tribe, doesn't it?


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## Pagan_princess (Jul 17, 2004)

Well, I don't know about natural supplements much other then the ones that you have already mentioned, but yes, I would check with your son's Dr. about getting him on iron supplements. Haylea-Ann's Dr. gave me an Rx for multi-vitamins with iron and flouride added in. Lead can cause the enamel on their teeth to wear away too.

We were told not to vacuum the chips up because it can just cause more lead dust in the air. We rented a steam cleaner twice a month for six months for the rugs. It got to be very expensive. Also the county health dept. gave me a lead cleaning kit. Basically it is two buckets, two sponges (one for washing, and then one for drying, but you MUST make sure that you never mix them up) two mops (for the same reasons), rubber gloves, and cascade dish detergent. I guess that it cleans to the lead better then anything else.
My landlord was required to come have the apartment abated. He had to come and replace windows, doors, and repaint all the trim in the house. Careful for those that are going to try and repaint themselves, because there is some kind of primer that has to go on first. I will check through Haylea-Ann's records and see if I can get the name of it. I guess that the lead can leak through the new paint without it.

Hope this helps!!!


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## sincitymama (Sep 20, 2003)

Yes Pagan Princess, it does help. Cascade, eh? The liquid kind? My IL's have a steam cleaner that I know they'll let us use. Good good good.

Someone mentioned knowing about natural remedies....scrolling down... provocativa says she knows natural ways, that's whay I saw.

My husband is going to a seminar for contractors, homeowners, and parents, about dealing with lead paint and proper steps to take for construction/renovation/painting stuff. So we'll know he's doing it right. Our landlord may also attend or help. They've been very concerned about it all, always asking what they can do, etc.. so maybe they'll help with the painting or pay for it. They are they ones who told me about the lead sealing paint, probably the same stuff you're talking about.

The doc hasn't mentioned supplements yet. Probably because we're on the lower end of hte high levels? And ds hasn't shown an iron defficiency(sp?)-they test for that at hte same time they test for lead.

At any rate it's good to see I'm not alone. Makes me feel less like a bad parent and mor elike someone just dealing with a problem other people have, too.


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## MAMom (Mar 24, 2005)

We too live in New England...old houses - love 'em but not the lead!

DS had lead level of I think 9 or maybe it was 11 when he was tested at 12 months. Anyway, very close to the "red flag" number.

Our Doctor gave us a prescription for liquid iron supplements immediately & DS has been on them since. His numbers have continued to come down, so that is a good sign.

My understanding is that the body will absorb the iron over the lead (the iron helps prevent lead from being absorbed), so I would definitely ask your doctor for an RX.

There are lead-blocker paints available - they are really thick (and expensive - about $50 per gallon around here) but are NOT effective for doors or windows - anywhere surfaces rub together.


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

I'll tell our story later;. Actually, lead mimics iron and calcium in our blood, metabolic pathways, etc. So the diet that is adequate in those leaves fewer holes, so to speak, in the whole system for the lead to slide into. Lead has a half-life of 20+ years in bone. How's that for mamaguilt? Check your bathtub, too! Old cast iron bathtubs can leach lead into the water. I would recommend against a fluoride supplement, if your water is fluouridated- too much fluoride is toxic. And as for iron supplementation, the difficulty is that there is much arguement as to the true bioavailability of the iron in supplements. Doctors give supplements because they are expected to give a pill, and because it's easier than educating their patients. And, the kind of iron in many supplements (some are better than others) can be very constipating to young children, and constipation is very counterproductive to lead poisoning. The best iron is in food sources. Liver, of course. Molasses. Chickpeas. Leafy greens are the best because they also have calcium. I envy the pp whose child would eat them pureed and frozen- none of that with my 21month old dd. Try to pair iron and calcium rich foods with those high in vitamin C- it increases their absorbption. You can vacuum with a hepa filter. Lead cleaners are high in phosphate, which must bond with the lead- oops, baby awake, more later!


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## AnoriensMom (Feb 13, 2005)

well, I knew I couldn't have been the only one. thanks for the replies.
her last results came in at 21. still toxic, but slowly coming down from 31 in November.
I guess I just really don't know how to mentally deal with this. how much do I freak out? my husband's boss (and the guy who sold us the house) has this attitude that the lead poisoning thing is all hype. and this house was built in 1930 and i am sure many kids grew up in here. so then i start to calm down and think that maybe its like the stuff you see on the evening news like about the killer bees. hyped out of proportion. but then i read stuff like what pagan-princess wrote about the behavior problems. we immediatly had the health department contact us and i opted then to have our daughter tested to see how she was doing developementaly. some occupational therapists and nurses came to the house and spent a few hours "playing" with her. she was actually above her age level for almost everything. but sometimes when she gets mad and loses control and bites me, I wonder if that is normal for a 17mo or if that is a result of the lead. never considered the possibility of her being sterile.
we also received the double mops and buckets and were told to stop washing my husbands clothes with my daughters. cant afford a HEPa vac .
we got a perscription for ferrous sulfate (liquid iron) drops. we were told to give it to her twice a day. i magically and intuitively only remember to give it to her once a day. it turns her poop very green (doesn't that mean it is not being absorbed as much and the excess is being passed through?) and i think it is constipating but i eat alot of flax, still b-feeding, and i think that helps. just try ot give her lots of good food, toddler typing too. more later


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## mesecina (Apr 22, 2004)

My daughters level at 12 months was 11, but we had just finished remodeling (including deleading) an old house. We weren't living in the house at the time, but she did visit the house with us a few times when we were there to check things out and supervise. And we *were* living there when we had the exterior painted, which probably stirred things up, even though they were pretty careful wiht the chips when they scraped.

Anyhow, we were pretty lucky. Our doctor recommended putting her on a multivitamin with iron, which we did, even though we had to bribe her to take it (I think it tasted awful), and when they checked again at 18 months her level was back to normal range.


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## Subhuti (Feb 18, 2005)

Hi All.
We don't know if our girl has increased lead yet (she's seven months) but our house does have lead on the window sills, at the very least. I am quite worried. We are going to replace all the windows in the house with a company that has some training with lead abatement.
Have you or your spouses been tested? I had a zero lead level, then went to eight during pregnancy (when my husband, who didn't believe the lead issue was real ... grrr... stripped both the front and back porches of paint... got all over the house). I want to get another test. Is eight in an adult bad? The md's said not to worry. Am I passing the lead on to the baby through my breastmilk?
Yes, I am very worried. Has anyone found a lead abastment grant program in their state? It is so expensive to take care of this. We are takign out a second mortgage.
Liz


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## AnoriensMom (Feb 13, 2005)

we are working on a grant program right now in Maryland. we first found out about it when the health department and dept of environment came through and (with his neat little lead reader) told us all the places we had lead. As they were listing all the things we needed to do to de-lead, we just kind of laughed. our income has of course dropped considerably since I quit my job. So we applied for the Maryland housing rehabilitation program for lead abatement through the department of housing and community developement.
Marylands wesite is www.dhcd.state.md.us so you should just be able to replace md with your state
this so far has been a long and stressful process. they took six weeks just to decide that the first estimate was too high and they want another contratoer to give an estimate. i am worried now that we are just a number so I sent along some pictures of my daughter. more later


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## AnoriensMom (Feb 13, 2005)

ok, back online.
so we are hoping of course to get a grant. but they also have a no interest, no payment loan in which they put a lien on the house. as soon as they replace all the old windows and de-lead the house the value will go up considerably so it seems like a no-brainer investment to me. this last contrator who came through on monday knows the guy who makes the decisions so hopefully he can help speed things up a bit. i am terrified to open my windows and now the weahter is getting so nice.
i have not gotten a lead test done for myself. i think since my brain is developed it doesn't matter as much, but man, i am so glad i have not gotten pregnant.
i also don;t know about the lead going through the breast milk, but i am soooo glad i am still breastfeeding. my mom was a LaLecheLeague leader so a big advocate of b-feeding of course and a big support. she said the extra IQpoints Anorien gets from this should make up for the loss of IQ points from the lead. that makes me feel slightly better some days.


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## Pagan_princess (Jul 17, 2004)

Well, I BF'ed Haylea-Ann also, so maybe that is why the lead hasn't seemed to do much damage intellectually. Trust me, I wish that it would do something for her attitude though. :LOL :LOL :LOL


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## Subhuti (Feb 18, 2005)

I did a quick check for NY. No out and out grants for our area that I have found. Some areas have $1000 grants. That would not go far. We were told that to replace all the windows with someone who was certified for lead removal would be about $14,000.

You are right, the value of the house would go up, wouldn't it.

For us, the next big "watershed" will be when Lulu gets her blood test. That will help us really reckon with how bad a problem we have.

Oh mamas, this is hard isn't it? Its difficult when your own home doesn't feel safe. I worry about opening windows, letting Lulu play on the floor, etc.

Big hugs to you all.


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## gratefulmom (Jul 5, 2002)

my DS had a high level when he was one.
Other than increasing iron foods, eatin vit C with the foods high in iron increases the absorption.
Also_CILANTRO
Cilantro is a natural chelator-rids the body of toxic metals. Do an online search for Cilantro Chelation Pesto. I think we did 3 T daily of the pesto. It is yummy and works.
Good luck


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## AnoriensMom (Feb 13, 2005)

oh my gosh, gratefulmom, Thanks.
just did a quick skimming of cilantro chelation pages, wow, definitely going to the store tomorrow. in case any one else doesn't have time to search, here is a recipe i found.

Cilantro Chelation Pesto

You will need:
. 4 cloves garlic
. 1/3 cup Brazil nuts (selenium source)
. 1/3 cup sunflower seeds (cysteine source)
. 1/3 cup pumpkin seeds (zinc, magnesium sources)
. 2 cups packed fresh cilantro (coriander, Chinese parsley) (Vitamin A source)
. 2/3 cup falxseed oil
. 4 tablespoons lemon juice (Vitamin C source)
. 2 tsp. Dulse Powder
. Bragg's Liquid Aminos
DIREctions:
Process the cilantro and flaxseed oil in a blender until the cilantro is chopped. Add the garlic, nuts, and seeds, dulse, and lemon juice and mix until the mixture is finely blended into a paste. Add a squirt of Bragg's Liquide Aminos to taste and blend again. Store in dark glass jars if possible. It freezes well, so purchase cilantro in season and fill enough jars to last through the year.

One person suffering from high blood pressure due to mercury poisoning had her blood pressure return to normal after eating 2 teaspoons of this pesto daily for only a week. So whether you need to detoxify heavy metals from your body or just wish to use it as a preventative measure, 2 teaspoons a day is all you need to take.
-----------------------------------

on one site someone was saying that even rubbing cilantro on your wrists can help. i wonder if my daughter will like the taste.

and yes, catskillmama, this is hard. i am so angry at my house (trying not to be angry at my husband who wanted to buy this house!).
thanks for the hug.


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## gratefulmom (Jul 5, 2002)

Narnia, glad to share good info. The recipe I used was bit more simple. I will try to find it. Similiar but I didnt include the pumpkin seeds and a few others. I seem to remember them all having brazil nuts though.
Good luck, I try to tell everyone about Cilantro!!


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

I read about cilantro early on, but my toddler rejected it. That recipe sounds so yummy I am going to try again with her this week, and see if I can get the rest of my familty to try it too. Apples also help alot, particularly if the child is still being exposed to the lead. They are one of the traditional herbal remedies, and helping to bind lead in the stool to pass it, and as a blood purifier. Added bonus that even wee ones can handle apple sauce. Garlic and onions are also traditional blood purifiers. I just upped the onion content in all our food, since we love them anyway. DD, 22 months, identifies them by taste now and says oinyun, yummy, which of course makes papa chef proud.
Sea vegetables, particularly kelp, are also good for detoxifying metals, due to their high iodine and glutamic acid (an amino acid, so braggs has it too) content. Glutamates are key to heavy metal metabolism in a way science is just now discovering, and recent research indicates that children with autism, particularly those thought to have vaccine-related injury, may not metabolize glutamic acid properly. One can take medicidal iodine and glutamic acid supplements, but since such are unadvised for little ones, I occaisionally take glutamic acid myself and figure maybe a little gets to her in my milk, but considered iodine supplements too risky for the same reason. Kelp is easy, just add a dried piece to any pot of beans as they cook, or crumble into soup. It absorbs extra H20 so add extra. Of course one can make lovely sea vegetable salads, Annie's makes a sea vegetable dressing, dd will eat neither so it's only stealth kelp here.
If you own your own home, there is a national law that requires that you were notified of the lead paint when you bought it. Call 1 800 424 LEAD for info. The law also applies to renters, but there are more loopholes. I haven't learned everyone's name yet, but the poster who bought the house from her dp's boss should find out about this, and sue after dp gets a new job! We were renters, and haven't sued yet. We have another 8 months for the statute of limitations, and we will. The Drs. are such a pain, I'm not ready to deal with the lawyers yet. . . . but would appreciate any info that would help in the process. Home owners: an architect in the extended family told me that lead painted windows can be removed and acid dipped rather than replaced, He said it was cheaper than replacement and good for historic homes as it preserved authenticity. Renters, just move. All three of us feel better, less joint pain, fewer headaches, less fatigue. Dd acts like she feels better, too. We didn't have the resources to move, but managed it anyway. there are probably public resources to help.


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## nantwins (Aug 2, 2004)

I'm another less-than-thrilled member of this tribe. Thankfully our lead issues are over now, but it was a nightmare when we were in the middle of them. We moved into a new older home when my dd (now 3.5) was a little under a year old. We knew it had lead based paint in it because of the age, and we knew the windows would need attention at some point, but in the meantime, we planned to simply not open and close them very often. Three months after we moved in, my dd's lead level came back at 20, which totally alarmed us. We moved out of the house instantly and stayed in my parents' townhouse (my mother had died the month before, and my Dad moved out of town very suddenly, so it was not being used by anyone but us). Our city had no lead abatement program with financial incentives or help, so we were on our own. And there seemed to be no clear choice residential lead abatement contractors in our area, so it was very frustrating.

The city Health Dept came to our house to do dust wipes and to check the water and soil. We believe the largest source of contamination for us was in the soil around the house, since the paint on the wood on the house had been scraped shortly before the house was listed for sale. That dust got on shoes and feet and then got tracked into the house, where it ended up in the carpet. Stupid us pulled up the carpet while our kids were still playing on it! So I can only imagine that a lot of the lead buildup in my dd happened as a result of that. She was crawling and had just learned to walk a few months earlier, so her hands were always all over the floor.

Anyway, the dust wipes showed high lead levels on the windowsills, on the floor around the edges where the carpet had been, and on some floors. We wiped with paper towels and TSP (talk about an environmentally unfriendly procedure!) as often as we could. After the heel prick came back at 20, we had a venous sample done, and that one came back at 12, which was much more acceptable and closer to the normal range. During the time we were out, we had the exterior wood shakes of our house covered in vinyl siding, we had all 28 windows replaced in the house, we had all of the windowsills removed on the interior and replaced them with new wood. We had a lot of doorway trim replaced, quite a few window frame moldings on the interior replaced, and we had any carpet in the house taken out and all the hardwoods sanded and refinished. Even so, her bll was still at 7 when we had it all done 6 months later. My older boys were not affected, and they were 4 at the time.

The key is avoiding exposure and containing the dust. We used a vaccuum with HEPA filtration, which we hope helped prevent the dust from flying around. Before we had all the abatement work done, we would wet dust with TSP and we avoided using a broom or sweeping in any way--just sucking stuff up in the HEPA vac.

We ended up spending big $$$ on getting rid of the lead, and eventually the stress of it made us just put the house on the market (with full disclosure). Then my dh lost his job and we moved to a new city altogether, so that is all part of our past now, and we firmly decided that for now, for our sanity, we needed to live in a house built after 1978.

Good luck dealing with this. I appreciated the free dust wiping and results so I knew where to target abatement. We used iron supplements, but I used Floradix liquid, which doesn't stain like the other liquid irons can. We also upped her calcium. 2 years later, I don't see any obvious lasting effects of our adventure, so hopefully we caught it quickly and dealt with it efficiently and this is the end of it.

Nancy


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## AnoriensMom (Feb 13, 2005)

I can't wait to write about all this in the past tense and say that my daughter was uneffected. Sometimes I lie in bed at night and just freak out about it. Pagan_princess, how did you find out your DD is sterile?
I keep forgeting the reason that we are in this house, though. We put a contract on this nice little house before I was even pregnant. Then after a huge mess with an FHA loan and the bank, two days before we were supposed to close on the house, the house burnt down. I was 20 weeks pregnant. Luckily we were not already moved in. But we suddenly had no house and needed to be out of our apartment. there was another house on the same nice street, but a fixer upper. ha! We bought it "as is" and signed a paper saying that it may or may not have lead. My husband put up new drywall over all the old plaster walls. We redid everything, except the windows. at the time we just figured we would replace them one at a time as our budget could allow. I had of course heard of the dangers of lead poisoning, but I don't know why I thought we would not be affected. We also found out that a lot of the lead dust was outside around the perimeter of the house and we (and the cats) were constantly tracking it in. So, because of the "as is" purchase, I don't think we can sue the sellers.
Now we are in red tape, paper work, government grant hell. the second contractor still has not completed his estimate and we are coming up on two weeks. why does it take so long? for some reason they were saying it would be cheaper to just replace the windows then to try to get the paint off. and I think now we do have to get it done by a certified lead abater.
well, I bought a huge bunch of cilantro but my daughter doesn't like it. I ended up mixing it with all different things in the blender, even ranch dressing, to make this concoction that she will eat. she loves carrots and dipping, so now she has a secret cilantro dipping sauce. I also mixed some with pasta and parmesean cheese and she ate that.


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## Subhuti (Feb 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nantwins*
The key is avoiding exposure and containing the dust. We used a vaccuum with HEPA filtration, which we hope helped prevent the dust from flying around. Before we had all the abatement work done, we would wet dust with TSP and we avoided using a broom or sweeping in any way--just sucking stuff up in the HEPA vac.Nancy

Hi there nancy et al.
Any one have a recommendation for a good HEPA vac to deal with our lead? Should one have a bag system (versus the convenient bagless?) or does that not make a difference?

Also, what does TSP mean??

Thanks !


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## Subhuti (Feb 18, 2005)

anoriens mom:
good luck. keep us posted!
liz


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

Well, I don't know what TSP is but the cheapest high phosphate cleaner we found was Cascade powdered dish detergent, in a strong solution. The powder has a higher phosphate content than the liquid. The phosphate bonds with the lead as I understand it, and there's no reason to buy expensive lead cleaners. At least that's what the gentleman from our State Dept. of Public Health said.
As I mentioned before, we got our bagless Eureka Whirlwind at Big Lots, factory reconditioned and it is amazing! But if money is not a consideration I would buy a Dyson (maybe their ads have got me). My previous vacuum was an Electrolux (very expensive) but it lasted for over 30 years, making it very cheap in the long run. I really appreciate the bagless, and like being able to carry the cannister outside to dump it, as I am full of microfine dust paranoia at this point, as are we all, I'm sure.


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## Pagan_princess (Jul 17, 2004)

We don't know for sure if she is sterile. It was just one of the serious side effects that we were told could be a result. We will probably not know for many years yet. At least until she hits puberty to see if she can even menstruate.

We were cleaning behind the house this past weekend and see a spot on the other side of the building that is the paint is chipping really bad. I am going to have the landlord here tomarrow and show it to him. I already know that he HAS to fix it, but I can only imagine how rude he is going to be about it. Everything to him is money money money.







:


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## AnoriensMom (Feb 13, 2005)

still here in lead poisoning hell...
it does keep me up sometimes at night. i keep trying to remember that this house was a real blessing. we were in the process of buying another house and two days before we were supposed to close on it, the house burnt down. luckily we had not already moved in, but I was 20 weeks pregnant and we were already overextending our stay in our rented apartment. i amazed now that we did not look into the possibility of lead. we bought this house "as is" and signed an agreement that it may or may not have lead paint. i guess with everything going on, like the possibilty of having no home at all, we didn't give it much attention. it is, and is becoming a nice house, but it still needs a lot of work.
i am truely amazed at some of these moms that are actally able to spend time online typing emails ,and with lots of kids. i am having a hard time ewith one . she is litreally grabbing my face to turn it to hers haha


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## Subhuti (Feb 18, 2005)

Hi all
just an update. My DD came back with a lead level of 4, from a prick test. The dr. said this is not a cause for concern. Is this true? ? He said it could have been lead dust on her hands (I washed her hands just before the prick to avoid this).

I am still worried (we've an old house, done some remodling/stripping, and I had a lead level of eight), and am going to go ahead with getting a professional lead tester to come in and test our house. The whole test costs $300 with a device that sees lead through the paint. Also, we pay for wipes in each room for the dust ($15). Its costly, but I want to know how much of problem we have. Anyone have an opinion on this? Is this a waste?

We are planning on replacing all our windows but are afraid that it will introduce more lead into the house. Finding a contracter who is lead savy is not easy.

Anyway, at least my dd at eight months isn't sky high with lead. I just worry when we start opening the windows and she's really been crawling for a few months and the lead might have a chance to accumulate.

OK, hope you all are well.

Liz


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## sincitymama (Sep 20, 2003)

I just spent forever looking for us int he finding your tribe area. We're in health and healing. Did we get moved or was it here all along?
















CatskillMtnMama, 4 is pretty much the lower end of acceptable. It's when it gets over 10 that docs start paying attention and even higher before there is visible illness. But, obviously, having any lead in the body is clearly not a great thing, you know? Also the finger pricks are less accurate than an actual blood draw. More likely to show a falsely high level. Lots of people see a high number on the prick, get the more accurate vein test and find out it's actually much lower.

So I wouldn't worry too much yet, but definitely go ahead with testing the house and everything. Whether there is a lot, a little, or no lead in the house is definitely something to know. If it's there, you'll know to take measures. If not, you get peace of mind. Either way it's definitely worth knowing! And with the windows, I guess it depends but I htink it's often better to seal the lead in and contain it rather than disturb it by replacing things. You can get in touch with your health dept for more information if you want. Ours is constantly sending flyers for lead safe seminars for contractors and homeowners and basically anyone interested. They are free.

As for us, no real news. We're waiting for the results from the test of our water sample, and have switched to bottled for drinking in the meantime just in case. Bottled water, cleaning with paper towels and dishwasher detergent, how natural of us







Oh well. Ds gets tested again the second half of June.

He won't eat the pureed spinach anymore. Joy. Instead he rubs it all over himself, which gives him this weird bumpy rash on his skin which freaks me out. I try to still get those greens into him by putting it in other foods. Like tossing a few cubes into our smoothies, heating it up and mixing into scrambled eggs, that kind of thing. I'm going to try that cilantro pesto as soon as I have the money for the ingredients and figure out what all of them are









I give him a multivitamin now.

He's still healthy and developmentally on track. That makes me feel better. I mean he's not super advanced or anything but he's not lagging behind the average or slowing in learning new skills.

It's so nervewracking! Right now it's just doing what we can and hoping for the best, you know? We'll be moving sometime this summer and are hoping to get into someplace that's lead free, but on our budget and in these old new england buildings that might be tough.







SOmeone else said it about the housing around here- love the character, hate the lead!

And I had a question, if anyone made it all the way through this post. It seemed a bit strange to think of but I got wondering and figured this was the thread to ask on. Is there a way to tell if the lead is being eliminated? From his body I mean. Like a change in diapers or something that would show the lead is getting out? Is it totally bizarre that I got to wondering if there was a way to tell from his poop if the measures we're taking are helping him move it out of his system? I know the best way to know is the blood test, but hey, I was curious.








Hugs for all of us here in this tribe.


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## Subhuti (Feb 18, 2005)

Sarah--
hope you do find somewhere better! We do love the old houses, too. How old is your child? I don't think you mentioned. I hear what you are saying about all the cleaning. We repainted all the window trim last summer to seal in the lead, but were later told that that essentially does nothing because opening and closing the window releases it into the air.







This is all such a pain! Have to work hard to not get panicked, right? Even with a 4 on the lead test we are still worried, as we know there is lead all over the house, and she's just beginning to crawl...

I don't know anything about your question-- whether you can see if the lead is being eliminated. Like with iron you can see it in the BM right? Haven't heard of anything similar with lead. But I am still relatively inexperienced...

Trying to contact my local health dep't today.

Liz


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

I think that there probably won't be that much of a change in dc's stool at just a level 4. My doctor would say a level 4 is nothing (another reason we're switching doctors, again). But he might get less fussy! When I look back at dd's behavior around 9 months, I cringe. What the NP kept saying was my imagination, or teething, and to just give her as much ibuprofen as I wanted, I now know was undoubtedly stomachaches and headaches from the lead. Here, the environmental division of the State Dept. of Health were much more helpful than the local, but whichever agency can direct you to the one with more staff, etc. Of course, they had lost funding to keep a certified lead inspector on the city's staff.
Oh, no, I never thought about tracking dust into the house. Does anyone know what can be done about exterior lead dust and paint chips on the ground? Our old house had peeling paint, the new house we moved into in January (still an old house) had all intact new paint, but I notice now that it's spring and we're outside, that this house had been partially scraped and painted recently and there are paint chips all over the perimeter. Dd is too old to mouth paint chips, but it makes me want to vacuum the grass and the sidewalk, then wash down the sidewalk with cascade.


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## sincitymama (Sep 20, 2003)

To be clear, my son is 17 months now and his last lead test was 18. Someone asked about a level of 4, so htat's what I was responding to in my last post.

We test ds again at his 18 month appointment next month. One question I had about the chelation pesto recipes though-they do seem to all include nuts, but lead is mostly a concern for younger kids, right? We haven't introduced any nuts to ds's diet yet, and didn't plan to until he was closer to 3. Is the concern just about peanuts and hte others are ok? I know the seeds are fine, but I was worried about introducing the nuts so early. Thoughts?

As for anything else, we're just now starting to look for apartments. So we need, here in southern nh, a lead free apartment with at least 2 bedrooms as well as space for an office, decent parking for 1 car, nice neighborhood, near public transportation, for hopefully less that $850/month. :LOL Might as well ask for the world. Sigh.


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## trimomma (Jun 1, 2004)

Hello to all of you mommas struggling with lead in your homes. I'm very sorry you have to be going through this.

This thread piqued my interest because lead poisoning is something I've been concerned about in my home and, like many others that other posters described, put off getting my home inspected because I really didn't think it was a big deal. Anyway, I have a few questions and hope that you wouldn't mind me asking to try to have a starting point for my children. Did your doctors perform the bloodtests for lead as a standard part of the 12 month visit, or did you have to ask for the bloodtest? Did/do your children show any symptoms of possible lead issues? I've read that some children from this thread seem to have the hyperactivity and/or irritability markers, but were there any other symptoms that stick out for you?

I appreciate any assistance anyone can offer. I am going to make an appt for dc to get bloodtests done at the doctor's office so I can see where we stand with this.

Thank you.


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## Subhuti (Feb 18, 2005)

Hi Trimomma-

At my ped office it is standard at nine months to give the lead test. Our state requires it at 12 months, but apparently enough has accumulated by nine months to make it worth testing a little earlier. I had Lulu tested at seven and half months by a prick test. I have heard that these are not as accurate but I figured it would give us a rough idea of where were at.

As I mentioned, Lulu's lead level was four, and the dr. said that was fine. We are still going through with lead testing (we just had the whole house tested with something similar to an x-ray machine and also had floor wipes done). We found that at the very least our windows are VERY "hot" with lead. We'll have to take them out, and do it in a lead safe way. Very expensive.

What was surprising to me was how much, according to the lead inspector, basic cleanliness effects how much lead gets into the child. He said if you just wipe down your windows each day (the sills of the windows that you open and close) and you keep your floor clean ... it goes a long way. I have to find a good vacuum cleaner with a hepa filter.

Anyway, does this help?

Liz


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## sandrajoon (Oct 2, 2003)

Turning Lead Into Gold has very useful info about heavy metal poisoning and treatments. It was written by a Canadian mother and nurse whose twin boys were debilitatingly toxic with heavy metals, and it tells their story as well as exploring the options for treatment. I've just loaned my copy out so don't have the author's name handy.

HTH


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## Subhuti (Feb 18, 2005)

thanks s., will check out the book on amazon.
liz


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## gardenmom (Apr 9, 2003)

Massive Post ahead--sorry if it's too much







:

A friend of mine had trouble with her son testing high (about 25), so after learning the hazards from their experience, we have been fairly cautious in our old house (she attributes lowering his count quickly to use of kelp powder, hidden in pbj sandwiches). Dd tested at a 7.7 at about 1yo and 6 months later she was down to a 3, so I don't feel we have a huge problem, but am being especially cautious to keep things clean.

TSP is tri sodium phosphate, I think. You can buy it at a hardware or paint store. It's designed for wiping down walls prior to applying new paint. Using the water with phosphate dishwasher detergent will bind to the lead so you can pull it off surfaces instead of just moving it around. I go around the house with a roll of paper towels, a garbage bag to collect them, and a cup of clean solution to dip only clean towels into for a one-time use, washing the windows, sills, floors where dust has accumulated, etc. It's wasteful, but worth it.

Be very careful about hepa vacuums. According to the lead inspector who worked with my friend, inexpensive store bought vacuums labeled as hepa are NOT good enough, as most all of them have a blow-by feature that allows some of the air sucked in to go through the motor without being filtered properly, which disperses the dust back into the air. You need a true hepa vac that will capture dust down to 0.3 microns to capture lead dust. It really needs to be one of the ones that's certified for allergens. I plan to order a Nilfisk vacuum next week (to the tune of $400 to $600--mega ouch!). You also want a bag or one-time use cartridge so you don't have to handle the dust or end up spreading it around when you dump it. Many state health departments have professional hepa vacs that you can borrow for free, so call and ask to see if you can do a thorough cleanup a few times a year.

Also, I once spoke with the poison control center nurse who was a lead specialist (dd broke a maraca that was filled with a million tiny lead balls instead of seeds/beans







: ). She had the most info of anyone I've ever spoken to, and sent me a huge packet of information which I haven't had time to read yet. One thing she alerted me to is that you should always make sure to tell the lab that you want your child's blood put into a certified 'lead free vial' for testing. I know this sounds obvious, but according to the nurse, lead free vials are not always used, and a normal vial could skew the results by several points.

Other sources of lead I've heard of...can't confirm all but it can't hurt to list them:
-Vinyl mini blinds are a very real hazard due to moving parts which create dust.
-Anything PVC, apparently lead is a stabilizer in many forms of vinyl, and could be in your garden hose, those plastic/metal hoses that hook up to the newer faucets, etc.
-Stained Glass
-Ceramic bowls, plates, cups
-Cheap crayons, sidewalk chalk
-Soil near major highways or in cities where lead gas fumes settled over time
-Keys and jewelry (mentioned by pp's)
-Christmas lights (again, vinyl plastic covering the wires)
-Some makeup, hair dyes and ethnic food items--can't remember specifics
-Sign up for the CPSC recall email list--lead recalls seem to come up at least once a month, including children's toys http://www.cpsc.gov/cpsclist.asp
-Candles with leaded/metal core wicks
-Imported Canned foods may have lead solder
Another good info source I found:
http://www.calpoison.org/public/lead.html

For lead paint chips or residue on the soil, get some mulch and cover bare soil where you can. Grass or planted areas are considered safer because the lead dust works it's way into the soil and is harder to pick up again.

Here's my favorite article on renovating safely:
http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuild...ges/h00108.asp

Also, search the MDC forums using 'lead' or 'lead paint', and you'll find a ton of good information in older threads!


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## AnoriensMom (Feb 13, 2005)

We just got the results back from my daughters latest lead test. It was 19 so her progression over the last seven months has been 31 - 30 - 25 - 21 -19. At least its going in the right direction, but man is it taking along time.

When I made the cilantro pesto, I left out the nuts. I actually tried mixing it with all sorts of stuff, like tomatoes and even some ranch dressing, just to get my daughter to eat it. she really doesn't like it. oh well.

as far as her having symptoms, I think it is hard to tell. is she is pain becasue she is still teething or does she have a massive lead headache?
she is also sometimes really violent, and biting







: , so is that just her personality or the lead? As i mentioned before, we had some OTs and nurses come to the house to test her developmentally, and she was at or above average in everything.

all I can say is " aaarrrgggg"
oh, and "I hate my house".


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## sandrajoon (Oct 2, 2003)

Hey, I understood that blood lead levels are not an accurate indicator of the total exposure to a heavy metal, and in fact only gives a picture of the last three weeks exposure. The body stores & accumulates heavy metals in the fat (this is called the 'body burden') and that is much harder to test. Maybe that info that changed as the book I am referencing is about 7+ years old (Turning Lead Into Gold http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...27215?v=glance )

In essence I gleaned that typical heavy metal tests are not very reliable. Any info on this from others?


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## Ahimsa (Apr 7, 2004)

My 1 year old's level jumped from 10 to 14 in the past couple months. I am pretty sure it has to do with me moving in with my parents. Their house is old plus they are fixing it up. My relationship with my son's father ended and I need to live here until I can get my own place. It will probably be another month before I can afford to move. Cleaning this house is a huge task because it is such a big house. I am giving him the liquid iron and vitamin c. I am going to see if he'll eat cilantro. I hate cilantro, so we'll see.


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

Yes, the lead is everywhere in our systems. Lead mimics calcium as well as iron; it is knit into our bones. It has a half-life of 20 years at least. It is hard not to cry when I type that. Our ped read an article recently about the lead lining children's intestines. Does anyone know anything about hair testing? Heavy metals affect adults too, BTW. It's not so much of a risk because we don't mouth things, and we wash our hands. Peeling paint was everywhere in our old house, and more would peel when I tried to clean. After dd was born, I had significant joint pain in my ankles, hobbling every morning when I got up. I thought it was a post-pregnancy thing. But since we moved, it has about gone away. I think the lead caused it, and I have much more energy since we moved. In addition, we have battled thrush- a condition lead can exacerbate. Okay, dd typing, more later. . .


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## Subhuti (Feb 18, 2005)

gardenmom said:


> gardenmom--
> I have been trying to find a true HEPA filter VAC but unable to get a strong recommendation from anyone. How did you settle on a Nilfisk? Does it have a truly sealed cannister? Where are you going to get it?
> 
> I think someone recommended a Miele but I don't know if it has the blow-by problem or the air is all forced through the HEPA filter.
> ...


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## sugarmoon (Feb 18, 2003)

Hi.

I just got back my one yo ds's lead test today, and he is at 14. It really sucks b/c we have already *done* abatement work, due to my 2.5 yo having a level of 29 (21 venal) at one.

grrr. I had slacked off on cleaning w/ the cascade etc. after getting the work done, but I guess I shouldn't have. I do have a hepa vac though.

One comforting thing I read when I initally freaked out when I found out about ds1 having high lead was that in 1975, the average kid's lead level was 25. I don't know if this is true or not, but it kind of makes sense, lead paint, leaded gas etc. I know I grew up in a house full of lead paint and I'm pretty okay. I try to focus on that, yk?

My ds 1 seems to be okay. He does have speech apraxia, but so do lots of people w/out lead problems.

I am thinking about consulting with a naturopath this time around though. I knew about cilantro, and we did lots of cilantro in scrambled eggs, but I'm wondering about other chelation options.

Anorien'smom, you sound like how I felt the first time around. ((((HUGS)))). Biting is normal in a 17 month old. I'm sure your dd will be okay.

Elsa


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## Ahimsa (Apr 7, 2004)

I have been feeling sluggish lately. It could be depression or stress, because I do have a lot going on right now, but it feels physical. I wonder if lead has anything to do with it? I have the health depatment coming Wednesday, so I'll get a better idea how much lead isin thi house. I am afraid it might be a lot. This is an old hpuse with lots of peeling, old paint.


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## gardenmom (Apr 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gus'smama*
One comforting thing I read when I initally freaked out when I found out about ds1 having high lead was that in 1975, the average kid's lead level was 25. I don't know if this is true or not, but it kind of makes sense, lead paint, leaded gas etc. I know I grew up in a house full of lead paint and I'm pretty okay. I try to focus on that, yk?

Sorry to hear about your dc's lead levels being high. I had to comment and add that I completely believe what you said about how high our levels (all of us) were when we were growing up. We did so many renovations/painting, etc. in and around our homes, I figure lead exposure had to be the rule rather than the exception. My sister used to help scrape and paint the bottom of the boat as a child (lead anti-fouling paint). My friend scraped and painted his grandparents' entire home as a fairly young child. I used to go fishing all the time, handling lead sinkers and even using my teeth to close line weights. When they stopped making leaded gasoline, I used to buy the lead additive and dump it into our old car to mix with the fuel (I was older then, but still more exposure).

Not that any of those were good things, but our tolerance for lead is probably much higher than the government allows today, and I agree with you that there's a bit of consolation in the knowledge that most of us had high exposure by today's standards, and turned out OK.


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## gardenmom (Apr 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CatskillMtnMama*
gardenmom--
I have been trying to find a true HEPA filter VAC but unable to get a strong recommendation from anyone. How did you settle on a Nilfisk? Does it have a truly sealed cannister? Where are you going to get it?

I think someone recommended a Miele but I don't know if it has the blow-by problem or the air is all forced through the HEPA filter.

Thanks so much. Yes, we are ready to pay that amount, too.

Thanks for all your other info.

Liz

OK, I finally have more info on the Nilfisk. I emailed the company directly and asked a few questions, specifically stating that I had an old home with some lead issues, and asked if the vac would be safe for household use as well as final type cleanup on small renovations/vacuuming paint chips out of my windowsills, etc. An employee emailed back--here's the text of her message:

_Thank you for your inquiry. The Family Vac will absolutely work for
> all of your applications. In fact, your applications sound like a
> description of a week of my personal vacuum's life. I have a child
> with allergies and asthma, two cats and an old house that is in a
> constant state of renovation. Although I don't have the Family Vac, I
> have had it's predecessor for more than 15 years.

> Our largest dealer for the Family Vac is Aller-caire. Their phone
> number is 800-547-8095. Because they purchase in volume, they offer
> great prices. They are very helpful and will work with you.
_

She also sent me the specifications sheet for it. (I want to add that the company does not advertise it specifically for lead removal, and she was cautious about saying that it should be used that way, but my gut feeling is that stating that is a liability issue and that she personally felt comfortable with it, if that makes any sense.)

Today I called her for more info and asked a few more questions. The Nilfisk vacuum is definitely sealed--all air must go through the filters before exiting the machine. It has 3 'filters', the first is a paper bag, which collects the large particles and debris. The second is a cotton filter which fits inside the lid and supposedly lasts 'for ever'--like 2000 hours. Behind that is the HEPA filter, which is supposed to be replaced once every other year, I think (thought I wrote that down, but I can't find it now). The woman from Nilfisk said that the filters they use for this vacuum are the _exact same filters_ that are used in some of their commercial vacuums that lead abatement contractors and other 'clean room' type people use. I didn't specifically ask, but I assume the difference is in the power and size of the vac, and the attachments needed for a household use as opposed to commercial use.

So I called Aller-caire and ended up buying it today. After looking around on the web for comparison pricing, their price was definitely the best at $470 plus $15 shipping for the vac, 5 bags, crevice, upholstery and brush tools, wand and hose. I bought an extra pack of bags for additional $15. The sales person there said the basic floor tool would work for my home because we have no carpet, just wood floors with a few area rugs. That floor tool has two settings with a switch--brushes for the area rugs or plain for the wood floors. They also sell 2 power nozzels which are extra if you have a lot of carpet to vac.

Anyhow, that's a lot..whew! I also have a few details about emptying the bag and cleaning the cotton filter for anyone who wants more info, and I can dig up the PDF file with the specs if you want those as well. Feel free to PM or email me for more info!


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## Subhuti (Feb 18, 2005)

Gardenmom--

thank you so much for doing that research. I am going to purchase one this weekend (time permitting). It sounds as if it will be more than adequate. It is less than I thought it would cost.

I am just curious, where would one get it repaired? Would a local vac repair shop be able to repair it or is too "speciality?"

Thanks!!

Liz


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## gardenmom (Apr 9, 2003)

Both Nilfisk company (in PA) and the Aller Caire company in Chicago said they do repairs on site, so you'd have to mail it to them if repairs are needed. Also, I think Aller Caire only had hours on Saturday.

Good Luck!

I'll post again after I give it a try and see how it works.


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## sincitymama (Sep 20, 2003)

Ok so I've been trying that recipe(minus the nuts) but, um, what the heck is dulse powder and where do I find it? Is it a supplement of some kind? I neve rheard of it before so I don't even know what part of the store I should be looking in or what kind of packaging or anything. Thanks!


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## sugarmoon (Feb 18, 2003)

Sarah, dulse is a seaweed. I'm not sure where powdered would be -- maybe with bulk spices? also, if you buy it un-powdered, you can grind it yourself, in your blender when you are making the pesto

I'm not sure how important it would be anyway, unless it does something for the lead? The pesto will be good w/ just cilantro, olive oil, parm. cheese, walnuts and or pine nuts, garlic and salt. We had some the other day with lime juice in it, which was very yummy. unfortunately, my boys didn't like it as much as I did..


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## sincitymama (Sep 20, 2003)

Thanks







I checked all around my grocery store today-with the natural supplements(the store I use has a big area of natural/organic/imported stuff), with the regular spices, with the organic spices, and by hte seafood counter. No luck. We have a gnc in town, so maybe I'll check there. I don't know if it has an effect on lead or just is there for flavor, so I didn't want to skip it in case it was important. I'm already not using any of the nuts(ds is too young), just cilantro, and pumpkin and sunflower seeds, and olive oil.

Next lead check is in just a couple weeks now and I am starting to get so scared.


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

Seaweed is very important in chelation. I wish I had thought to grind it up when my daughter was younger. I put the whole leaves in soups and beans as they cook, and pull them out before serving. I neglect it now, but we had dramatic results back when her level was so high they were testing her every week. Look at an Asian market or in the Asian section of your HFS. (Kombu or kelp were the most recommended ones in my reading). It is very high in naturally occurring iodine, which supports liver function. I have just been reading about the liver's metabolic pathways, but my book is downstairs and I can't fetch it right now, or I'd have more details.
IMO, some of this paranoia about nuts is unfounded. True, the rate of peanut allergy in the U.S. has increased exponentially, but interestingly, they have not found a corresponding rise in China, where they consume much greater quantities. Peanuts are a legume, and much of the worry about other realated foods is that they were processed in a plant that also processes peanuts, and so that food corporations lawyers have spun some of this to protect themselves, and doctors too, yada yada. So the experts here haven't figured out the differences btwn. US and Chinese behavior, but we breastfeed less (so our kids have more allergies). And we may be overexposing ourselves prenatally because our restaurants often fry with peanut oil (high smoking point), and many lotions and cosmetics contain hidden sources of peanut oil. When my dd almost succeeded, at nine months, to snack on a toddler friends sandwich, I researched







We breastfed, and I was never much of a beauty product queen, or into fried foods, and nuts are so healthy, we gambled- but stacked the deck. At one year old, we took almond and peanut butters on a picnic right next to a hospital. No anaphalactic shock, but no worry- because if she did start to react, we were right by the ER! Pumpkin seeds are so healthy. And they are so easy for toddlers to chew at at young age.


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## Barcino (Aug 25, 2004)

Hi,

After reading all your posts I am thankful we live in a new house (I have always envied the beautiful character full old homes!) but had a "heirloom" piece of crap from my husband's family that was painted with lead paint inside my new house. My son has not been around it a whole lot - it was not in his room or play areas... so I am hoping his levels are fine. It was an old bench and truth is I never saw paint chips coming out of it but I am totally freaked out regarldess of the fact so I am having my 20 mo. old checked tomorrow. I wish I could live in a bubble!

Anyway just wanted to let you know that i have been doing research on HEPA vacuums and there is a very affordable EUREKA that has the same HEPA filtration that the expensive Nilfik or whatever has... the Eureka is the
http://www.eureka.com/products/upright/4870d/4870d.jsp Eureka Model 4870D/DT It sells for around $150 in amazon. The nilfik seems to have the same specs for HEPA than that Eureka. Here is a link so you can compare: http://www.natlallergy.com/cgi-bin/M...&spreadid=1385

I just thought this might help since the price difference is quite impressive. Both of them get rid of 99.97% of all particles down to 0.3 microns in size. The Eureka is also named a Consumer Report best buy.

Hope this helps some of you looking for good vacuums. I will let you know how my son turns out. I am also now going to go on a raid for toys that might contain lead... my inlaws have some stupid toy they brought from mexico that looks awful suspicious to me.


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## gardenmom (Apr 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Barcino*
I just thought this might help since the price difference is quite impressive. Both of them get rid of 99.97% of all particles down to 0.3 microns in size. The Eureka is also named a Consumer Report best buy.

I just wanted to add that I am skeptical about this, both due to the price, and the fact that it's not a canister style, and from basic cleaning info I just read in their own specs (part of the instructions said you should 'shake out' one of the filters, which is not acceptable from a lead safety standpoint). From all I have read and been told, unless you purchase a _sealed (pressurized)_ canister style vac with HEPA filtration, it doesn't matter how great the filter is, because the air isn't all passing through the filter. Though I admit I'm not familiar with the Eureka, I would want to speak with the manufacturer to find out if this vac is sealed prior to purchasing it for allergy or fine dust removal.

Edited to add that the specs on the Eureka (when you open the little window by clicking 'true HEPA filtration') talk about the HEPA _filter_ being able to catch 99.97% of particles, not that the actual vacuum performs to those specs.

I hope your son tests low! Best of luck.


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## Barcino (Aug 25, 2004)

I guess when it sounds too good to be true... it usually is








What you explain makes sense. Thanks for clarifying!

We should have the results in a couple of days. They did the finger prick test. I am not expecting it to come back abnormal but I guess better be safe than sorry.


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## Subhuti (Feb 18, 2005)

Dear Baricino

I think that I have to agree with Garden mom, that you're not getting a true HEPA filtration with the Eureka. I appreciate your trying to get a cheaper vac, but in a real lead situation (old house, for example, construction, etc.) you really need to have a full HEPA function.

I hope your kids are OK. From reading your situation, I don't think they will be in much jeopardy from a single peice of furniture. My sense is that it has to be day in day out exposure to lead dust or consumption of a large peice of lead to actually poison a child. Still, I really do feel for you with your worries!

Good luck.

Liz


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## Barcino (Aug 25, 2004)

Thanks so much! I did get the results today and the finger prick came out at 1 so the doctor said not to worry at all - especially since the fingerprick versus the vein tends to show a little higher. I am so thankful and the piece of furniture is out of here as of last week! I am glad I got it checked out though... I would have wondered and worried if I hadnt. Good luck to all of you!
BTW yes... totally agree that the Eureka is worthless for a true lead filtration since not only the filter is important but the sealing of the vacum itself. I just got excited too quick!


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## Barcino (Aug 25, 2004)

Double posted


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

We have a Eureka and it worked just fine, according to our personal experience and the opinion of the certified state environmental lead inspector that examined everything. I don't know what model it is, it does have a cannister. I'm sure it doesn't work as well as the very expensive one, but my aim was not to remove every micron of lead- that's not the direction where I point my anxiety. And, we would not have had money to move if we spent it on a perfect vacuum. Lead poisoning is more prevalent in lower income housing, so I encourage any poorer mamas who might read this thread to still go for the Eureka if it's all they can afford. We were in quite a dangerous lead situation at the time, and dd's lead went down 9 points in one week after we got the Eureka vaccuum. I concur with the previous assessment of the filter on it. It really is no big deal to take it outside, put the cannister in a plastic bag, seal it and shake, etc. The first few times we went very far from the house, and washed hands and clothes afterwards. Now that our lead situation is better, we still go outside, but don't have to be as paranoid. Those vacuums you all described sound awesome, though.


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## Subhuti (Feb 18, 2005)

Hi All-

I finally bit the bullet and got the Nilfisk vacuum cleaner. It was thanks to Gardenmom that we found it and I thought I would add to what she's said about the vacuum cleaner. It took me forever to find a private consumer vacuum cleaner that is TRULY adequate for lead clean up. We are doing construction on walls this coming week that have lead paint, and later in the summer will be doing work on windows that are very high in lead. So we HAD to find an adequate vacuum cleaner.

The Nilfisk "Family Vac" is the only consumer (versus industrial) vac that really filters out the lead. What Hoover, etc. claim is very misleading, IMHO. They claim "true Hepa filter" but it is not true HEPA *filtration.* Very important distinction in a lead situation. There is a real hepa filter in their vacs. However, the vacs bypass a lot of the intake and the lead/allergens just get reblown around the room. For us, that would be a nightmare.

The Nilfisk is expensive, (close to $500). However, it is made by a great company that is the number one industrial vacuum company in the world. And, it is ANSI certified for lead removal. When looking for a vacuum cleaner to deal with lead, apparently you need to see that it is:

certified for lead abatement, per ANSI z9.2 standard for OSHA and the EPA and it must have a *sealed* cannister.

If you bought something commercial, it would cost $1500-$2000.

The other great thing about this vac is that it has the strongest suction of home vacuum cleaners ( a CFM of 275). To me, that is very desirable in dealing with lead dust and chips.

Hope this helps.

BTW, we ordered ours from Aller-caire (800) 547-8095. They do not have a website, just phone orders. Their prices were equal or better to web prices, and their shipping is in 2-3 days. Their customer service was very, very knowledgeable. Refreshing!

Hope this helps parents who are in our situation.

Thanks again to Gardenmom for her tip-off to the Nilfisk. A real find. Will update once we get the vacuum cleaner.

Liz


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## sincitymama (Sep 20, 2003)

Levels went down 2 points





































Not that 16 is really something to celebrate but it's the right direction at least! Also we are moving somewher ethat is totally lead free. The nurse I was speaking with when I called for the test results said to definitely still test around september again, but she wouldn't be surprised if when we move we see a drastic drop-like possibly being below 10 next time we test









I am so happy.


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## Subhuti (Feb 18, 2005)

Sarah --

So happy for you!! Glad you're moving somewhere else, too...

Keep us posted on your progress!!









Liz


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## gardenmom (Apr 9, 2003)

Just checking in to see how everybody is doing.


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## Subhuti (Feb 18, 2005)

Hi Gardenmom
We love the Nilfisk -- wonderfully built. We used the vac when we did reno on two walls with lead paint on them. We'll be using it again later this summer when we do the window replacement. We're doing OK. I'm nervous about the windows, but will lay down plastic over everything, vac like crazy, and wear a respirator as I do the clean up (to protect me and my breastmilk). They cost under $50 and are well worth it. Then, we'll be done. At least the inside of the house! More outside, but less worrisome. Lulu's blood levels are still normal hopefully, we'll retest in the fall.

Anyone know the time between exposure to lead and measurable levels? I heard three months...

Otherwise, we've doing great. I had my gall bladder out so am sort of convalescing. How are you?

Liz


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## AnoriensMom (Feb 13, 2005)

We just received Anorien's lead level - 16. so the progression since November has been 31 - 30 - 25 - 21 - 19 - 16.
Sound average?
she is sleeping/nursing in my lap right now, hard to type, just thought I would share our latest number.
anyone else had recent tests?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sandrajoon*
Hey, I understood that blood lead levels are not an accurate indicator of the total exposure to a heavy metal, and in fact only gives a picture of the last three weeks exposure. The body stores & accumulates heavy metals in the fat (this is called the 'body burden') and that is much harder to test. Maybe that info that changed as the book I am referencing is about 7+ years old (Turning Lead Into Gold http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...27215?v=glance )

In essence I gleaned that typical heavy metal tests are not very reliable. Any info on this from others?

Yes, for example, blood tests for mercury are this way... useless beyond a few days. Mercury is stored in the body organs, not in the blood, and even when challenged (which is a very dangerous procedure), the metal doesn't necessary dump out into the blood right away. This has been proven over and over again with autistic kids.

Myself and my son have ordered a specialized hair test to check for mercury exposure in both of us. It tests all heavy metals as well as minerals.

The *Autism-Mercury Yahoo group* is the best source for information about chelation issues and hair testing information:
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury
See the Files section for a wealth of info in addition to searching the archives of posts.
(For those who have read "Evidence of Harm", the Group was started by Lyn Redwood, one of the moms who was a central character in the book.)

I ordered the *"Hair Elements Test"* from DDI, it was $69 if you are a member of the Yahoo list.
http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/HOW_TO_hair_test.html
The relationships between the metals and minerals are more accurate indicators of which metals are being excreted and which are being absorbed and stored in the organs. For example, mercury in the brain stays there unless it's chelated out. Some mineral deficiencies are hallmarks of metal poisoning.

The key with *chelators* is that they should be taken on a constant basis... if you take a large dose at a time, like just once or twice a day, it mobilizes the metals and then the body reabsorbs most of them back but in a new place, like more into brain. If you take a chelator every 3-4 hours, then the level in the body is constant and most of it is excreted. This is based on the research into mercury chelation by Andrew Hall Cutler: http://www.noamalgam.com/

He is a participant on the Yahoo Group, but there are a lot of very knowlegable parents there too re: supplements/testing/chelation and some are dealing with high lead as well.

*Seaweed* can be dangerous for a person with high metals, as it can contain mercury from the oceans. Same with chlorella and mercury, which has also reports of being dangerous for moving metals around and redepositing them back in organs/brain.

*Cilantro* really hasn't been proven or clinically tested. And also the same principles for dosing could apply. Just because something is natural doesn't necessarily mean that it is safe...

For example the best chelator of mercury from the brain is *alpha lipoic acid*, ALA. Every health store in the country carries it. Dr. Perricone recommends it to combat wrinkles. And if you have mercury fillings and take it... it is very dangerous... it chelates even more mercury out of your fillings into your brain.

Sorry to be so... "inflammatory" here.

I don't know how I'm coming across but like I said, we are dealing with mercury poisoning I believe. DS has gut and behavioral issues and I have many symptoms as well. I will start chelation on myself as I have gotten all my fillings out by safe protocol with a holistic dentist. I need to decide whether I will do chelate DS. We'll see what hair tests say first.

So I know how difficult it is to be a mama facing this kind of thing. There is so much I didn't know until only recently. I want to make sure I do the right think for my DS and make sure others have the opportunity to research for their babes as well.








to everyone


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

No time really to type- my research confirms much of what you said. Lead is stored in the bones, too, as it mimics calcium too. I have been wanting a hair test for my dd. One of the problems I have encountered is that allopathic doctors (and their egos) toe the standard line. Blood tests, and if it's not high enough for serious damage, then no big deal. We need to sue our landlady in order to cover dds healthcare, and it's hard to prove any damage- is hyperactivity damage, etc. Does anyone know what is in PCA-Rx? I've seen it advertised in Mothering and don't know. I am not one to think that because cilantro's effects aren't proven by the medical/ pharmaceutcial/ academic elite machine that they can't also be real and valuable. I think that there are brands of seaweed which are tested for mercury. Anoriens mom- we were at 27 in November and 14 in March or April. But we moved from a high lead house to a contained lead house, if that makes any sense.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *provocativa*
One of the problems I have encountered is that allopathic doctors (and their egos) toe the standard line. Blood tests, and if it's not high enough for serious damage, then no big deal. We need to sue our landlady in order to cover dds healthcare, and it's hard to prove any damage- is hyperactivity damage, etc.

A DAN doctor might be able to help you. They don't just work with autistic kids. Plus, they are well versed in chelation as well as behavioral issues.

http://www.autismwebsite.com/ari/dan/dan.htm


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## NoraJadesMama (Aug 16, 2003)

Hi mamas, just wanted to chime in here, having read this whole thread and taken notes. I'm so happy for you seeing lowering levels. I just got my kids the prick test, and was surprised to see my baby's come back at 8. I see from reading this thread that perhaps a venous test would come back lower. One of my kids was 3. Still I find it rather alarming. If they can see measurable problems at 10, I don't want my kids at 8. Or even 3.

One question I have for y'all. We were thinking one of the things we'd do to kick-off our lead abatement program here would be becoming a shoes-free household. I suspect a lot of our lead is coming from the dirt in our yard (we had a lot of lead paint sand-blasted off our peeling garage last year, in order to be able to paint... figured that the peeling paint chips were worse?). Are any of y'all thinking of shoes-free as a part of your new cleaner lifestyle, or would it just track in by your socks from the shoe removal area (which we would have on our porch)?


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## sugarmoon (Feb 18, 2003)

Becoming a no-shoes house is definitely a good idea. There is still a bit of tracking from socks for sure, but not nearly as much. Also, is your entry area set up so that you can baby-gate it off? I do that at my house, just to prevent people from passing through there more than neccessary and tracking in even more dirt.

If you haven't yet, I'd suggest getting your soil tested for lead, and keeping the kids out of the highest areas. Also, you should be sure to plant grass, or put down mulch over any bare dirt that has lead in it.

HTH


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## Isis (Aug 2, 2004)

I know there is no lead anywhere in our home- it's been freshly painted before we moved in- we're OK- right? No paint chipping or anything like that.

BUT- I do notice that we have an old metal gate that probably has lead paint on it. DS likes to push it open- will get some dust (paint) from the gate onto his hands. I never noticed it before. Last time I was at the Dr- she didn't think I needed to test for lead- but now I'm wondering. Can you get lead poisoing from this?


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## AnoriensMom (Feb 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NoraJadesMama*
Are any of y'all thinking of shoes-free as a part of your new cleaner lifestyle,


The first thing we did was install a no-shoes policy. We definitely have lead in the soil all around our house. One thing we did not consider that the health department pointed out later was the fact that we have cats. They love to sit on the back porch peeling paint and then bring the dust inside on their little paws and bellies. I just locked them out of our bedroom to atleast count down on the lead in there.

Anorien is still doing great, growing like she should, and likes washing her hands A Lot!!!


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## Subhuti (Feb 18, 2005)

Hi All

Just wanted to let you know we finished replacing all our lead filled windows with new ones. Man, it was stressful. I wrapped the entire house in plastic! All the floors and furniture! Then we did a clean up with our nilfisk vac. Me and the baby left while the windows and clean up was going on.

In a couple of days we should get the results back from the lead tests we had an inspector do after it was all done. Wish us luck! Perhaps our lead nightmare is almost over. (and we are almost broke!)

Liz


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## ~member~ (May 23, 2002)

Lead Poisoning

Sorry, I didn't see this earlier. My children had lead poisoning. My ds was 47, my dd was 52.
Stayed away from chelation and treated by changing diet. Lead levels were down to less than 5 in six months.
Will post more later...


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## late-night nan (Jan 28, 2003)

Thank you so much for this thread. Even though my son's lead level has tested in the "safe" zone, we live in an old house and worry that increased lead exposure is always a risk.

In addition to the many good ideas in this thread, I haven't seen anyone mention that old dust gets trapped in window screens. It doesn't seem like much until you run a wet paper towel over a dirty screen--I was amazed by how much came up. I'm assuming much of the dust is from outside but it surely contains particles from what was rubbed off from the sills. We also have a box of TSP in the basement and never knew what it was for, but I'm bringing that up today to go over the sills and screens again this weekend.


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## NoraJadesMama (Aug 16, 2003)

Hi all,

CatskillMtnMama--that sounds like so much work. go mama go! AnoriensMom glad Anorien is doing so well.

Thanks for the responses on no-shoes. We'll be implementing that this weekend. I also ordered a nilfisk. We have a cat who likes to sleep on my pillow...hmmm....

Also the lead guy from county health came out yesterday and did some swabs and soil test. his xrf was malfunctioning, so he'll have to come back for that. he was supposed to charge us $125 to come, since our child isn't above a 10 yet, but somehow he managed to fanagle us a referral so we got it for free. phew! it seems like the county should be willing to help prevent children from GETTING to a 10! anyway he totally agreed.

I hope to get some answers. at this point it's still pretty mysterious where exactly the baby is getting it from. the lead guy said i should get tested, that it is quite possible that he got it from me in utero and now through breastfeeding (not that he was anti-bf, he wasn't). if that is the case, probably my other two had elevated levels as babies. they're low now. hmmm. taking all three kids to county health so i can get tested doesn't sound too fun. any input, mamas?

we're developing our lead-abatement plan:

have dh wear a mask and carefully dig up soil that got paint dust/chips on it when we pressure washed the garage last year; replace with new soil and plant grass.

become a no-shoes household

hepavac the heck out of the house (floors, bedding, furniture) when the vac arrives, wash all sills and floors with cascade in that throw-the-paper-towel-away fashion

get all cords as out of baby's reach as possible

weekly hepavac floors, and do the wipe thing on sills and wet mop floors (we may get disposable attachments for our sponge-mop)

get kids to wash hands every time they come in from outside (which they pretty much do anyway) and allow no food when playing outside; wash baby's hands and face with every diaper change

get new window screens

(their diet is already high in calcium and their iron levels tested well, so i won't change diet)

...hmm i guess that's it for now. other than being vigilant about toys with lead, crayon chewing, stuff like that.

mamas, i got a LOT out of this thread. thank you so much. i'll update when we have more news. i enjoy your updates so much.


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## late-night nan (Jan 28, 2003)

what is the risk of crayon-chewing? are nontoxic crayons ok?


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## ~member~ (May 23, 2002)

Crayons, even ones labeled non-toxic, sometimes have cadmium in them, which is one of the metals that sit atop the brain.
Cadmium, mercury and lead are the three most damaging to the human body, especially children. They are easily absorbed and because of density, travel to the top of the body to the brain.
I think in my pp, there is a link that talks about those three and how they work.
Also, in one of the link there is a site that lists everything that is dangerous, including Barbie and Disney toys, since soft plastic often contains cadmium to make it pliable.

I, personally, would never use chelation on my children. It is just too dangerous. Using the healthy eating guide, i was able to naturally lower my children's lead levels within six months.
I, also, cut out all food that made it harder to digest, like dairy and bread. They had cheddar cheese and Keifer(sp?), but no yogurt, butter, milk, or ice cream.
Tons and tons of veggies. They both love asparagus, artichokes, collard greens, tabouli, and salads.
For fruit, tons of blueberries(those are the best as they contain almost everything a growing body needs), raspberries, cherries, etc. No juice, just water and fresh fruit.
Yellow vegies are important, too. Red peppers, yellow peppers, tomatos, corn, squash, pumpkin, and many others that I cannot think of right now.
My children never eat hot dogs or anything high in nitrates. Ham and white bean soup is a treat on Mother's Day(because that is my favorite







).
Oh, and beans, beans, beans! Not just standard Red Kidney beans, but a variety.
Check out some of the recipe boards. Our favorite is refried black beans. Yummy! Yellow split peas, green split peas, white beans, etc. We have made everything from the Ethiopian dishes to plain ole Chili.







Guatemala and Ecuador has some yummy recipes for beans, too.


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## late-night nan (Jan 28, 2003)

thank you for the warning about crayons. ds is past the age of putting things in his mouth, but i'm putting away the crayons andwill only let him use them under supervision. what do you let your children draw with?

sorry for all the questions, but I may have missed the "healthy eating guide"--is there a link upthread? thanks!


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## ~member~ (May 23, 2002)

My older children say I am a mean mommy because I threw away all the crayons and markers. I live in an apartment and just cannot afford the writing on the wall, so to speak. :LOL
My children have a MagnaDoodle(?) tha they draw with. No paper to waste, no marks on the walls or anywhere else. If it's something really cool, then I take a picture with the digital camera.
Can you tell I love trees? :LOL


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## late-night nan (Jan 28, 2003)

we're renters, too, but luckily ds has not been that interested in drawing on the walls (though occasionally the floors







). and yes the trees love you back!









we have a small magnadoodle, too, and are thinking of getting a chalkboard. do you know whether chalk is safe? it seems there are heavy metals everywhere...


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

I'm an artist, so not letting my child experience color and creativity in multiple mediums is an anathema to me. We ordered Stockmar beeswas crayons from Germany. They might still have cadmium, though I trust that company more than crayola. I make food based paints. It is ridiculously easy to find paper headed for the recycling bin that has only been used on one side- so we just re-use it then recycle. Just ask an office drone to save some for you. We have also gotten the ends of butcher paper rolls from a restaurant that uses them on their tables. I don't question the pp mama's knowledge of cadmium (I think it's not used in every color, though).


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## Subhuti (Feb 18, 2005)

Nora- sounds like an excellent plan! I can't think of anything else to suggest.

Our windows and sills (NEW) failed the lead swipe test. The floors were OK. I was disappointed! But it turns out my husband FORGOT to wash down the new windows after construction.







: He did do the floors, though, so those were OK.

So we are back to scrubbing the new windows and I am actually going to paint the old wooden sills to make them easier to clean. They are beautiful but not in great shape, and hold the lead dust.

Nora -- what prompted you to be so careful in your house? I forget... your kids had high normal levels?

Liz


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## ~member~ (May 23, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *late-night nan*
we're renters, too, but luckily ds has not been that interested in drawing on the walls (though occasionally the floors







). and yes the trees love you back!









we have a small magnadoodle, too, and are thinking of getting a chalkboard. do you know whether chalk is safe? it seems there are heavy metals everywhere...









You can make your own chalk! There are recipes on-line...I made one with egg shells and food coloring and other stuff. It was a long time ago and I remember it being a PITA at the time. I think it had more to do with not having all the right utensils.


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## AnoriensMom (Feb 13, 2005)

I just brought home the july/august issue of Mothering from the library and saw on the last page an ad for something called PCA-Rx. "A powerful, biologically active detoxification agent." Here is the link

http://ssl.maxamlabs.com/MAXAM_ASP_V...ProductINDX=47

Any one heard of this??


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## NoraJadesMama (Aug 16, 2003)

On crayons, our lead guy from the city said that he has tested a bunch. Yes, even crayola have lead, but only some colors, and, interestingly, only certain boxes. So a given color might have lead in one box and not in another. Variation at the factory?? I let my kids use crayons and markers, but I am now vigilant about crayons not being in baby's reach.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CatskillMtnMama*
Our windows and sills (NEW) failed the lead swipe test. The floors were OK. I was disappointed! But it turns out my husband FORGOT to wash down the new windows after construction.







: He did do the floors, though, so those were OK.


aagh! how frustrating! after all you did to make it better! I feel for you. I'm really impressed that you're getting back on the horse, as they say.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CatskillMtnMama*
Nora -- what prompted you to be so careful in your house? I forget... your kids had high normal levels?

I just happened to get them a lead test, all three, just becuase I'd been meaning to for ages. The older kids were 3. The baby, who I figured would be 0 was 8. So I am worried that he's only going to elevate from here unless we take action. I can't wait for the hepa vac to arrive, so we can give the house one big suction cleaning!

I'm now a big advocate for everyone getting their kids tested. I bet y'all are too!


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## welldone (May 30, 2003)

What about Dyson vacuums? Has anyone done research on them? We just bought one, and I'm tempted to return it and buy a Nilfisk, but wondered if it would work just as well. Probably not.

We're buying an older home, and there's chipping paint in it. We're in an apartment right now, and hope that we can get lead issues taken care of before moving in. We recently moved out of an apartment filled with lead hazards. I looked high and low for a lead-free apartment, and found our current one. We can only afford a one bedroom, but it was worth it to me to get the kids (6 mos. and 2.5 years) away from the lead.

I'm scared silly about the lead, and wish we could afford a home without it. No dice.


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## ~member~ (May 23, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *welldone*
What about Dyson vacuums? Has anyone done research on them? We just bought one, and I'm tempted to return it and buy a Nilfisk, but wondered if it would work just as well. Probably not.

We're buying an older home, and there's chipping paint in it. We're in an apartment right now, and hope that we can get lead issues taken care of before moving in. We recently moved out of an apartment filled with lead hazards. I looked high and low for a lead-free apartment, and found our current one. We can only afford a one bedroom, but it was worth it to me to get the kids (6 mos. and 2.5 years) away from the lead.

I'm scared silly about the lead, and wish we could afford a home without it. No dice.

I would check with your county or state, because when buying a home, the homeowner or city is required to take care of the lead.
In MN, since the city owned the house, they were required to replace all the pipes, windows, etc before they could sell it. Of course, they tried to sell it to us anyways, until I called the Health Department and harrassed the city zone people(?)....can't remember off the top of my head what they were called.
So, anyways, no money out of our pocket for a problem that should have been taken care of years ago, kwim?


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## ~member~ (May 23, 2002)

Also, wanted to add that some Health Departments or Lead Programs will pay for the Nilfisk vacuums for you.
I would do a little research and see what you can find.


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## ~member~ (May 23, 2002)

I was reading the posts and saw someone ask about liquid Cascade. No, that will not work. You need the powdered kind, even the new lemon-scented one works.
It is because of the TSP in it. TSP bonds to the lead and cleans it off the floors, walls, windows, shoes, etc.
I used to wash everything, well, not our clothes, but toys, shoes, baby gates, anything the kids touched or tried to chew on was washed with powdered Cascade or else the straight TSP powder that sold at the hardware store.
Also, the rinse bucket with just water is important!
Thanks to the pp for pointing that one out! And the part about never mixing the two. Also, don't forget to change the mopheads frequently.

It was cheaper and safer in the long run for me to move.








It is sad that the government that helped ban lead is lazy about taking care of the problem. You just have to call and call and write and write, but you should be able to get your house lead-free without taking money from your pocket.

the previous links I provided should lead you to the appropriate places and people to call/harrass.


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## welldone (May 30, 2003)

Hm...I'm not sure this can be done here in PA. From what I understand, the sellers don't have to take care of lead unless they choose to. And since we're getting a lead inspection, we're required to pass that information on to any future buyers. (That's why most people don't do lead inspections around here.)

I will check with the health dept. re: the vacuums, though. But I've done a lot of research around here, and people treat me like I'm nuts when I ask anything about lead paint. Just about every house in this county has lead paint, but when I took my daughter into a health center to get her finger poked (the health dept. sent me there), the nurses kept asking why I was doing it. As it they never do these. I was appalled.

And, I never got the results.


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## ~member~ (May 23, 2002)

welldone- I lived in PA for awhile! Outside of Eerie. I would check again because it is a 'new' problem and takes awhile for people to get on the train, so to speak and fight for their rights.

I ran into the same problem in MN, and I just fought and fought until it happened. It is well worth it when you think of your children's quality of life, kwim?

Lead Elimination Plan PA
okay, the links to read it are Adobe so I couldn't cut and paste, but if you read the one about homes, you will see that PA state is mandated to make the house lead-free.
I hope the above link helps...it gives the name of the contact person, too.


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## Subhuti (Feb 18, 2005)

Nora -- So you are in a situation like us. Lulu was a 7 lead. Not terrible, but still present. You and I are doing some precautionary work (hopefully) rather than remedial.

Welldone --
Make sure you go back and read the posts in this thread about vacs. Nilfisk is the only consumer vac that is certified for lead abatement. Dyson is not a true HEPA vac. if you are doing lead clean up, you should return the Dyson and get the Nilfisk (aprox $500 ). Be careful, dyson will say it has a true HEPA filter, but this is very different from being a true HEPA vac. The filter is hepa, but the lead dust is blown out of the vacuum as part of the functioning of the machine.

Hope this helps.

Liz


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## late-night nan (Jan 28, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaInTheBoonies*
I was reading the posts and saw someone ask about liquid Cascade. No, that will not work. You need the powdered kind, even the new lemon-scented one works.
It is because of the TSP in it. TSP bonds to the lead and cleans it off the floors, walls, windows, shoes, etc.
I used to wash everything, well, not our clothes, but toys, shoes, baby gates, anything the kids touched or tried to chew on was washed with powdered Cascade or else the straight TSP powder that sold at the hardware store.
Also, the rinse bucket with just water is important!
Thanks to the pp for pointing that one out! And the part about never mixing the two. Also, don't forget to change the mopheads frequently.

We have something called TSP-PF which is phosphate-free. Would this work, too?

Otherwise, I think it's better to go with straight TSP rather than Cascade since we are trying to avoid the chemicals in regular dishwasher soap.


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## NoraJadesMama (Aug 16, 2003)

Hello sisters-in-lead-distress,

So... dh mentioned that a maracca had broken in the playroom. and it made a mess of metallic gray beads. Tiny. lead colored, if you will. all over the floor. It's a big room and I had never noticed. we don't know when this happened. But it's been a while. and now you can find little gray beads in the dust by the baseboards all around the room.

It's a huge room.

And here's the kicker. they're round. They roll.







: so if we get one area perfect, and move something around, the lead beads can roll right on over to the perfect area.

WHY are people allowed to sell lead beads in maraccas?







It was not imported. It was a little purple pastic maracca we got as a gift.

On a lighter note, those hepavacs can really SUCK! Hoo doggies, that vac is impressive!


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## late-night nan (Jan 28, 2003)

this will be of interest to those following this thread, lead in vinyl lunchboxes!
http://www.cehca.org/lunchboxes.htm#test


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## ~member~ (May 23, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *late-night nan*
this will be of interest to those following this thread, lead in vinyl lunchboxes!
http://www.cehca.org/lunchboxes.htm#test

Just wanted to add that almost any malleable type plastic has a greater chance of containing lead and/or cadmium.
That is why a lot of parents have started demanding natural wooden toys that are not painted or treated...like the waldorf toys and such. Myself, I just use the lead test sticks you can buy at Menards or most hardware type stores and if any toys test positive I first call the 1-800 number to report them and the health department, then I dispose of properly...which here means it goes in a 'special' landfill.







I guess it is one that will not leach into any underground water that could get in the lakes or rivers. Thinking about it, I suppose that is better than burning it, right?

For 9 years I have been writing letters to Disney. They are the worst about letting lead and cadmium be put in their toys. And Barbie. We don't get Barbie toys, but they do come as an occasional gift, kwim?

Please keep your children safe. Some damage is irreversible.


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## AnoriensMom (Feb 13, 2005)

oh NoraJadesMama, I am so sorry. That's awful about the toy.

Well, my days of being stressed out about the lead dust in my home should be over!!!!!

the contractor finished today and the inspector also came today to do the follow up swipe tests, although I wasn't here for that part.

To re-cap, after my daughter's routine 1 year lead test last November came back at 31, we were contacted by the health department. They came in with someone from the Department of Environment who was able to tell me where all the lead was. As they were telling us all the work that needed to be done they noticed our dismay and referred us to the Dept of Housing and Community Development. There is federal and state money available for lead abatement. They have grant programs but also no-interest, no-payment loans that you pay back when you sell your house. There was quite a bit of paperwork involved and the whole process seemed to take forever, but we found out a few months ago that we were approved for a grant. Then we had to wait for the certified lead abatement contractor to fit us into his schedule. They provided us with a trailer to move our stuff into and the few nights we had to stay in a hotel while they did the inside was included. The work, totaling $27,000 is being totally paid for. They vinyled over, painted over, or replaced wood on the front and back porch. They replaced all the windows and the great thing is that they are all custom fitted. They could have just put in some small standard windows and then put plywood over the gaps like my brother's landlord did to him. They put down a layer of mulch around the outside of the house and a layer of polyurethane over the gouged dining room floor that was trapping a lot of lead dust. There was no mention of the possibility of receiving a HepaVac. oh well.!

So I would strongly urge everyone to check your state's DHCD website for their Single family home Rehabilitation and lead abatement programs. What I would not encourage is for anyone to be living at this level of poverty so that you qualify for these programs. After I quit my job to be a FT mom, my husband began a career in real estate and had crazy bad luck (a client even died) so we basically had zero income for a long time. We used all our savings and racked up some cc debt. When we began applying for some assistance with the lead it was obvious we had no way of paying for any of it.

OMG, all those sleepless nights, and all my new gray hairs, but I think we are all going to be ok. Her last level was at 19 so it will be interesting to see how long it takes to get to zero.

Hugs to everyone and their families.


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## gardenmom (Apr 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NoraJadesMama*
Hello sisters-in-lead-distress,

So... dh mentioned that a maracca had broken in the playroom. and it made a mess of metallic gray beads. Tiny. lead colored, if you will. all over the floor. It's a big room and I had never noticed. we don't know when this happened. But it's been a while. and now you can find little gray beads in the dust by the baseboards all around the room.

It's a huge room.

And here's the kicker. they're round. They roll.







: so if we get one area perfect, and move something around, the lead beads can roll right on over to the perfect area.

WHY are people allowed to sell lead beads in maraccas?







It was not imported. It was a little purple pastic maracca we got as a gift.

On a lighter note, those hepavacs can really SUCK! Hoo doggies, that vac is impressive!

I had this EXACT same thing happen about a year ago. Ours was a gourd maraca from the flea market, that I stupidly assumed was filled with beans or seeds. When dd broke it, tiny lead shot spilled all over our (charcoal gray) carpet! I spent a few phone calls back and forth to poison control because it was mildly possible that she ate a few. I also spent a week scraping poopy diapers with a butter knife to make sure she hadn't ingested any.

Disgusting on so many levels...


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

What about lead in cans?

I just noticed that Muir Glen organic tomatoes come in "lead free, enamel lined cans" ... so that means there is danger in other cans?


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## NoraJadesMama (Aug 16, 2003)

AnoriensMom you have come such a long way! What a lead abatement journey. I'm so impressed that you did so much and were able to use your resources so well --and get her lead level plummetting! Wow. Mamas are powerful beings!

lunchboxes.
maraccas.
cans.
it's such a toxic world for our little ones, sometimes I feel despair.


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## AnoriensMom (Feb 13, 2005)

A woman today, when she saw my daughter chewing ice, said that she heard that was a sign of a vitamin defincincey, although she couldn't remember what. Doing a little research just now I found that "pagophagia" is the compulsive eating of ice that is a common symptom of a lack of iron. My dd is not yet two but has been loving ice all summer and asks for it often. All this time I've been thinking it is great because I know she is getting fluids on these hot summer days. like healthy popsicles!! I'm wondering now how often she asks for it and how often we are the ones offering it to her. How can I tell what "compulsive ice chewing" is?
Her doctor prescribed liquid iron back in november when we first discovered the lead poisoning. For the first few months we were very dilligent about giving it to her twice a day. But I started thinking that her very dark poop must mean that she is geting too much and the constipation seemed counter-productive to the chelation. I cut down to once a day and then, when her doctor said to go to once a day, I cut down even more. Now i give her the liquid iron every few days. I serve her healthy food of course, and she is still nursing alot.
Does the lead effect her ability to absorb iron, or is the iron used to chelate the lead, or iis it both? I can't seem to remember.
Has anyone else encountered this?


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

Lead mimics iron and calcium at the cellular level. So, when lead is an issue, dietary insufficiencies leave room, so to speak, for lead in the cells/tissues. If low on calcium, more might get knit into bones, low in iron, will replace it in hemoglobin etc. Pretty much every toddler I've ever known has loved ice. It is fun, soothes erupting gums, and teaches them so much about temperature and matter, solid to liquid. You are absolutely right about excess iron in the stool. It could be too high a dosage or the form might be malabsorbed by dc. Food sources of iron are better, they say. Lately we're making baby coffee- molasses mixed into 'cow milk'. Two weeks from now, I'll be trying something else. . . .


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## Maman*Musique (May 13, 2005)

We belong here


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## welldone (May 30, 2003)

I finally got the ped to order lead tests for both the girls, now that the baby is six months. I had my older one finger pricked by the health dept. in July, but never got the results. They just kept telling me that she was fine, or the results weren't in yet. So much for consistency.

We're out of the lead hazard apartment and into one build in 1983. No lead paint. Icky carpet, but no lead paint. For now. But we just bought a house, and we know it has lead paint in it.

We've hired a lead inspector--a good one, as far as we've been told. (Better be, for the price we're paying.) He comes next Wednesday. We're willing to have all the trim removed and replaced before we move in, if that will help. The kitchen needs to be remodeled, so if we can afford it, we hope to get that going before move-in, as well. But we can't afford to live in the apartment and own the house at the same time for very long, so we're limited in what we can do.

Our city (Pittsburgh) has a lead safe organization that lets you borrow HEPA vacs. I'll have to ask them what brand they lend. They also have lead remediation programs for low income folks, but I'm not sure what they do. I'm anxious to find out, because it's going to really deplete our wallet to have trim removed and replaced. But I don't want to deal with higher lead levels. I'm already afraid of what we'll find when I get them tested now.

A sad welcome to the new moms in this thread.


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

M. Musique, your ped could be wrong. Search the boards for iron supplementation and related topics. Many of us lead mamas have found that our dcs got constipated on iron supplements or multis, as they often have poorly absorbed types of iron. Constipation is counterproductive to chelation. Floradix is one widely touted around here, as it is plant based and easily absorbed. I just got some yesterday (I'm newly pregnant! Yea!) so I can't tell you yet if it seems to be being absorbed by dd better. Iron rich foods are often better absorbed by the body, esp. with vit C rich foods, and many peds recommend supplements to cover their butts, etc. As for the testing, don't let either child be tested by that nurse again. Find a phlebotomist experienced with small children. We actually switched peds after their phlebotomist left (the last straw). Dd has been tested by a variety of folks and I can tell you, skill levels vary immensely. The good ones never hurt her on a veinous draw.


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## Maman*Musique (May 13, 2005)

Thank you for the advice. I agree and don't want to give an iron supplement. Floradix is good but only for kids over age 4. I think I will just go with iron rich foods for now. She is still an avid nurser and her iron levels do test fine so that's good.


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## late-night nan (Jan 28, 2003)

Maman, good luck with the move and relocation on top of everything else.







Your plan sounds like a good one.

I wanted to share some tips on cleaning lead dust that I found through a search--it's a very thorough brochure:
Reduce Lead Dust in your Home


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## Shiloh (Apr 15, 2005)

-AHHH
Okay so I think we've got major lead paint.
+But regardless of how it or we test I ordered a test kit today for the home.
What should I be testing?
I am just going to get rid of the obvious offenders








Old metal toys....etc.

But if lets say I test a toy I got from 'wemakeourowntoys' and it has lead...
do I ask for a refund?

How do they get lead in vinyl anyhow?


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## NoraJadesMama (Aug 16, 2003)

late-night nan, that is a helpful link, thanks.

We got some results back from the county health lead guy.

The maracca beads were lead-free! So much for my clever theories. And my hours and hours of cleaning. :LOL
















The high lead results he got were our soil by the garage (which we knew) and our kitchen floor (which is where we enter the house).

I did spend a great deal of time cleaning the kitchen floor, hepa-vacing the house, and we are now shoes-free. I am hoping the baby's lead goes down accordingly. The hepa vac is so quiet that it's easy to do around my kids, which means i can hepa vac several times a week. my 4-y.o also enjoys using it!

We need to replace the soil out there and get some stuff growing.

Welcome to the new members







sorry you have to be here.







I am so impressed with you mamas who are moving or considering it. What a huge undertaking.


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## Maman*Musique (May 13, 2005)

Norajadesmama, We are also a leave-your-shoes-in-the-mud-room family right now and I think that should help. We have two dogs who are staying in the kitchen for now. I would encourage you to do a veinous test since the finger prick is known for showing false positives. Just to ease your mind. It sounds like you are doing a great job. We also love our nice quiet hepa vac









Our update - I have taken a nice deep breath. Whew. We have changed the plan just a bit. What we are doing now is -

-Boxing everything up in preparation to either delead or move
-Wiping everything down with the phosphate cleaner
-Vaccuming constantly
-Getting a NEW lead inspection (lots of $ but we think the first one was not accurate)
-Getting our son tested Monday(we bought the EMLA cream) I am really scared of what we will find out.
-We are still looking at houses to buy but it does not look promising at all. The houses without lead are out of our price range. The market here is swinging to the buyer's advantage though, so it might look better in the next year. DH thought we might sell our house now before the down-turn and then rent for a year until we could buy at a good price.
-I have looked for rentals but folks don't want to rent short term - the dogs are also an issue for most landlords. I will keep looking.
-Getting a bunch of estimates for deleading. I would rather move altogether but I know it may not be possible. I just don't trust the deleading contractors I have spoken with and I have heard so many negative stories about deleading results.

My baby has a terrible cold right now so she has been up for 2 nights straight. I am going to try to get as much done as possible over the next few days with her in the sling nursing. My mother is coming to help.

Hope others are hanging in there


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## AnoriensMom (Feb 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AnoriensMom*

So I would strongly urge everyone to check your state's DHCD website for their Single family home Rehabilitation and lead abatement programs.


Maman*M, please go back and read some of my former posts. I did receive federal help, and a bunch of it too!!! It was tough work, a lot of phone calls and paperwork, but it is finally over.

Never got a chance to thank you, provocativa, for your reassurance with the ice-chewing. If I may gush for a moment...MotheringDC is sooo awsome. Here I am feeling pretty isolated from friends and family, and especially people who are raising their kids the way I want to. When ever I have a question I can just go online and search MDC. Its like a living constantly updated child care book written by the coolest mamas around. So when some stranger makes me freak out about my child having a vitamin defincency because she is chewing ice and I don't have any one around me to offer advice, I am grateful that I just have to type it into a forum and an experienced mom expert can help relieve my fears. I thought it would be normal for a toddler to chew ice (she sure does enjoy it), but without any one to compare it to, I couldn't really tell. Thanks!

And more hugs to all the families dealing with lead.


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## Subhuti (Feb 18, 2005)

Anoriens' mom--

in your last post you said you received "federal" money ?? But prior to that said it was a state program. NY state does not have, as far as I could find, a state program for helping with lead abatement. But is there federal money to be had?? We've spent close to $10,000 so far de-leading (mainly removal of windows).

Thanks!

Liz


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## Maman*Musique (May 13, 2005)

I could not find any information about state assistance with lead removal. All they provide is a list of lead inspectors and a list of deleading contractors.


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## AnoriensMom (Feb 13, 2005)

This is the link for my state's page

http://www.dhcd.state.md.us/Website/...lp/lhrglp.aspx

We applied for this money through our state, but then they were all saying that the grant we received was federal money. I think you do have to apply through your state. Maybe it is just a maryland thing, but that would be awful.


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## Maman*Musique (May 13, 2005)

It looks like my state does offer loans/assistance with lead removal, for low income families in high risk areas. That is a great thing but we don't qualify.


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## ernestholmes (Jul 24, 2005)

We evacuated our home of four years on Sept 2 because a third scientific lab had confirmed toxic lead levels on the entire lot aurrounding our home, the outside of the house, the baseboards window casements and cabinetry in the home - all the counter top tile (chipped!) the bathtub was 200x the legal limit with its peeling procelain - my baby had bathed in it for 30 minutes every night for three years. Dust swipes picked up extremely toxic levels on the baby's window sills (at mouth level) on the fireplace tiling, on the kitchen floor.

My child was normal when we moved into the home and developed perfectly until 18 months. She then began to exhibit autistic symptoms and at 2.8 was diagnosed and is still autistic. The symptoms of that disorder mimic lead poisoning almost exactly. Her (past) deathly diarreah mimics everything lead does.

My child had a lead blood level done one week after we evacuated - both that and her 24 hour urine came back >4mcg

But as I read through this thread I realize the blood tests are temporal and that lead may be hiding in her bones, hair and adipose tissue

HOW DO I GET HER TESTED FOR THIS?

Where does one go to get the hair test? I looked at the link from the yahoo group but its inconclusive - you have to have a doctor do it. What if they won't?

Does anyone know how to get a child's bones tested?

I need to look into this further - as my landlord refused my wish to be relocated and have the place cleaned up so we can move back in - and they served us eviction papers because I filed to get relocation expenses back from them plus my security deposit. They won't budge a finger.

We move into a new place this weekend? How can I test it for lead without spending the $500 I did on the contractor who tested our old home?

Also, our old sofa - which is actually still in great condition, has been covered with a slipcoiver for three years, which gets machine washed maybe twice a month. Can I take it with us or is it contaminated? I have an antique loveseat too that I adore - if I get it reupholstered can it be salvaged?

BTW the lead gave both of our dogs cancer and one had her lead amputated, which is what tipped me off the get the testing done on the first place.

Info GREATLY appreciated.


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## ernestholmes (Jul 24, 2005)

hi sending up a flare again - we are supposed to move this Sat
Anyone out there with info?


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## Maman*Musique (May 13, 2005)

Oh my goodness. I am so sorry.









I would suggest a naturopath for the hair strand test. We haven't done this with our children but we may at some point.

Not sure which state you are in but I think many people qualify for assistance with lead inspection and removal.

Are there agencies in your state who would be able to help you find an attorney for a reduced fee or pro bono?

I wish I could offer more help - i'm sure others will chime in with good advice.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ernestholmes*
But as I read through this thread I realize the blood tests are temporal and that lead may be hiding in her bones, hair and adipose tissue

HOW DO I GET HER TESTED FOR THIS?

Where does one go to get the hair test? I looked at the link from the yahoo group but its inconclusive - you have to have a doctor do it. What if they won't?

Does anyone know how to get a child's bones tested?

Hair tests can be ordered thru Direct Labs without a doctor.
http://www.directlabs.com/
They have a doctor on staff to order them for you, they are extremely nice, even when they were decimated by Hurricane Katrina!

I would pose these questions on the Yahoo Autism-Mercury list.
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury/
There are so many knowledgable parents who have been through testing/chelation for metals, including lead. There may be some discussions in the archives as well:
http://onibasu.com/archives/am/date_index_1.html

See info here from the group http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/ "Procedures for testing for mercury and other heavy metals" for information about the Hair Elements Test that is the basic one recommended. If you belong to Autism-Mercury and mention it to Direct Labs, it's is only $69 instead of $93. It will test 16 metals and 34 minerals.


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

I do think a hair test is a good idea, we never have the extra money. You can sue your landlord. We're getting ready to sue ours, but haven't found a lawyer and don't know how to go about finding a decent one (any help there is appreciated). There is a national lead law, they are supposed to inform you. The EPA has a hotline, check their website. Most local laws are more strict than the national one, which has a loophole for leases under 30 days. The difficulty in suing for damages is that there is not an actuarial table for possible IQ points lost.
I think that you all need to take a deep breath and try to panic less. I remember the panic in myself, it was horrible. A lead level under 10 is not considered harmful. Under 20 used to be the standard, when we were kids. Brain damage doesn't happen until much higher levels- over 40, or really over 70. A better diet, especially high in essential fatty acids as the DAN doctors recommend, is a good step. I think a special X-ray tests the bones. I have not found a doctor who would order it, so probably a DAN doctor or a naturopath is your only bet. I do think those folks at the mercury boards are wise, but not the gospel. I like cilantro, for instance. I do think it very dangerous to vaccinate a child who is exposed to excesses of other heavy metals. I also think it is very important to remember that lead cleaning and lead containment (painting and planting over) do seem to work. My daughter's lead level dropped dramatically, when first we cleaned, and then moved to a lead-contained (Newly painted) older home. A 4 year old playing in the dirt must not be eating it- babies mouth the contaminated soil, that's the danger. It's not so much absorbed through the skin. It seems to me that we may be moving from the frying pan into the fire going to new homes. Vinyl siding? PVC pipes? Synthetic carpets? There are dangers to living surrounded by plastic, too. It has been asserted here that TSP, a very anti-environmental cleaner, is neccessary. This study refutes that assertion: ( http://www.epa.gov/lead/clean.htm ). Incidentaly, this site is interesting, http://www.ledizolv.com/LearnAbout/L.../lszsixarg.asp but it is put up by the people who make the product, which is quite expensive. They give free samples, but I didn't register for one yet. TSP is trisodium phosphate, Cascade is disodium or other sodium phosphates. There is a greater concentration of phosphates in the powder than the liquid, but they are in the liquid too. When dissolved, the TSP would create three sodium ions and three phosphates per molecule, to bind the lead. So the other Cascades would have a lower phosphate level, but they're still there. I found that the liquid left less spotting and was better on antiques, but I used the higher phosphate on windowsills and floors. I don't want to use the phosphates again, but I'm nervous without them, I confess. ernestholmes, I think you should check out the above mentioned boards quickly! According to my extensive research, it certainly seems that lead-induced autism is as likely as mercury-induced. If you vaccinate, it could be a combination. We stopped vaccinating before I found out about the lead. I had been bullied into earlier ones, and am greatful I stopped before she started getting really mobile and her lead exposure increased. Our state lead inspector said that home test kits were worthless, if they only tested for the presence of lead, not its concentration. I sued my landlord for my deposit and won- however, I did give her 30 days notice before moving. Of course, the b*tch hasn't paid me yet and is evading the sheriff, but that's another story.


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## NoraJadesMama (Aug 16, 2003)

Re: Cascade. Do other brands of dishwasher detergent have the right phosphate content?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *provocativa*
I am not one to think that because cilantro's effects aren't proven by the medical/ pharmaceutcial/ academic elite machine that they can't also be real and valuable.

I went back to see if I explained this issue since you mentioned it again in a recent post...I meant to expand on it but forgot I think.

I agree with you, I have little use for the "machine" that has caused damage to my health myself. I'll never agree to anything done to me or my family without researching it fully ever again.

The issue that is brought up by the Yahoo group is that the mechanism and ingredient in cilantro that may or may not work to remove metals is unknown.

So therefore it could be dangerous to use b/c generally one does not take it several times a day/night to keep a constant level of whatever ingredient that works in the system... and with chelators, a high level in the blood, followed by a drop, can cause redistribution of the mobilized metals with more going into the brain and organs simply because the body cannot possibly eliminate so much at once. Sometimes in adults, using cilantro or chlorella causes severe migraines, and then you can assume that it is a problem and moving metals into the brain, but in children, they can't articulate their experience all that well.

Just another perspective.


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## Maman*Musique (May 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *provocativa*
I think that you all need to take a deep breath and try to panic less. I remember the panic in myself, it was horrible. A lead level under 10 is not considered harmful. Under 20 used to be the standard, when we were kids. Brain damage doesn't happen until much higher levels- over 40, or really over 70

Deep breathing is always good. I'm far from an expert on heavy metal poisoning but I don't trust the state/gov to tell me what is safe. The standard in my state just changed a few years ago. Like vaccines, they often realize one is dangerous after millions have been given it and suffered. I don't want any lead in my daughter's body if I can help it. 13 in my state was enough to have us flagged. Our pediatrician recommended moving or deleading because of the dramatic rise in my daughter's lead level.

Quote:

A better diet, especially high in essential fatty acids as the DAN doctors recommend, is a good step.
My daughter still gets about 80-95% of her nutrition from breastmilk.

Quote:

I do think it very dangerous to vaccinate a child who is exposed to excesses of other heavy metals.
I agree. Luckily we don't vaccinate.

Quote:

I also think it is very important to remember that lead cleaning and lead containment (painting and planting over) do seem to work.
That may or may not be true in each individual case. We were told to leave asap and I think it was a good plan. Once the lead gets in the body, even if it drops in the blood it can still be in the bones/tissue/brain right?
For us, the best plan was to leave immediately. I know we are lucky to have the option.
We did the cleaning at 5.6 but it still rose to 13. The recommended cleaning solution made me sick from the smell so we skipped that. We used the correct vaccuum on a daily basis. Cleaned hands constantly, wiped down molding with wet cloth, etc.

Quote:

My daughter's lead level dropped dramatically, when first we cleaned, and then moved to a lead-contained (Newly painted) older home.
Our home had been painted right before we moved in but it began to chip. I don't believe regular paint will suffice - unless there are many layers?

Quote:

A 4 year old playing in the dirt must not be eating it- babies mouth the contaminated soil, that's the danger. It's not so much absorbed through the skin.
When the soil was dry I imagine he could have breathed it in. Who knows. He has lived in the house for 4.5yrs. We only had him tested at 9mo - we didn't know to test after that. He was 4 and we were told that was normal







: (found out later that normal is 0-2)

Quote:

It seems to me that we may be moving from the frying pan into the fire going to new homes. Vinyl siding? PVC pipes? Synthetic carpets?
I think it depends. I won't live with carpeting. Each potential material should be investigated but I believe we are in the fire at the moment so moving/deleading is the only option for us. At least then we have a *chance* of being in a safe environment.

Edited to fix my quote issues


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

When I was pregnant I gardened in soil often without gloves, that later tested at 5000 or some huge number. This freaked me out, but the state lead inspector and doctor said absorption would have been negligible. Planting grass, or anything- fast growing prickly groundcover of some sort, really really lowers what kids are exposed to- throw some seed down just as a favor to the next folk that live there, if you don't have the house condemned. I don't let mine play next to the house, and will plant there next year. When my daughter first tested for lead, we lived in an old house like yours, M.Musique. No amount of lead cleaning would have made it safe- it had been allowed to deteriorate too much. When I would clean, paint would chip off. There's a room like that in hell, trust me. The only place we could move was another old house, but it has always been fairly well maintained, and the landlord agreed to paint it all and seemed safe. Now the handyman has created a new lead hazard outside (he's not the brightest) so we'll see how the landlord (very kind) responds. I would hate to have to move again, I'm newly pregnant. Very interesting about the chlorella and cilantro. We only made cilantro pesto twice, she would only eat it half the time and it was too expensive to waste. DD has always loved drinking green drinks like Odwalla Superfood. So now that I'm pregnant I bought some powdered greens to mix with juice and smoothies when my diet hasn't been the greatest. We drank some yesterday. Then I had a tiff with my father, and developed a severe stress headache or minor migraine, which is still hanging around. I know stress was the trigger but I bet the chlorella made it much more severe. I rarely get headaches but have had one severe and one not so severe migraine. And most of us know how the pregnancy hormones increase stress and sensitivity. I wonder if anyone makes liquid greens without them.


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## Maman*Musique (May 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *provocativa*
Planting grass, or anything- fast growing prickly groundcover of some sort, really really lowers what kids are exposed to- throw some seed down just as a favor to the next folk that live there, if you don't have the house condemned.

In addition to, of course, handing over the lead report to any potential buyer, we will also discuss our soil findings and disclose the fact that our daughter tested above normal for lead.

I have never heard of a house being condemned for lead but I guess it's possible. Ours just needs deleading. Part of our issue was that we wanted every single piece of molding replaced - even the pieces that had an "acceptable" amount of lead in them. We could cut the cost to about $10K by deleading "to code". Someone else may feel comfortable with just doing the minimum deleading. We will probably ask the buyer what they would like to do about the soil. We could do what the inspector suggested (lay mulch or something? I forget) or sod or let them do what they wish.

Good luck to all.


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

Of course. I think like a renter, not a buyer. They have made our former landlord bring everything up to code- it's still vacant 8 months later. I live downtown, and I drive by a deleading project almost daily. It seems like the contractor might know his business, but that the workers (mostly migrant) don't. And the soil and neighbors houses are covered in paint and plaster dust in spite of plastic dropcloths and precautions. How will they ever clean it all up? I totally understand why someone would move rather than deal with that.


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## AnoriensMom (Feb 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *provocativa*
When I would clean, paint would chip off. There's a room like that in hell, trust me.


I used to have nightmares of that room in hell all the time.

The contractors that de-leaded our house did a great job of cleaning up on the inside but not outside. It's not like they could shop-vac the gravel driveway. There are chips of paint, and scrap pieces of the metal they used to cover the outide of the window everywhere. They put mulch about a foot out all around the house, but the debris spread much further.


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## welldone (May 30, 2003)

Well, we closed on our "new" 1920s house today. We had a full lead inspection done a few weeks ago, and are anxiously awaiting the results any day now. We were there for a part of the full day that the worker took to test every wall, piece of trim, soil, etc. She had a little box machine thing (please excuse my veeeeery technical language) that is radioactive, I think, and can detect lead through 30 layers of paint, she said. I was shocked when most every wall and piece of trim came up negative.

Does anyone know what that means? Negative, from one of those machine thingies? I asked her if that meant it was lead-free, or just lead-safe, and she kept saying "it's just negative." She did say that she sees a lot of homes test negative, and with the number of older homes in our area, that can't be right. I'm anxious to see how the dust swipes came back. After being in a wretched, lead contaminated apartment for a month, I don't want to move into a house that I'm stuck with for three years minimum.

We're willing to totally remove all the trim and replace it, if necessary. We might have to work seven jobs and wear potato sacks for a few years, but you know...lead safety is a big issue for us. *Sigh.* I guess I just hope the full inspection report clears things up for us, somehow.


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

Our state lead inspector took paint samples, down to the wood, and dust wipes. I don't remember a machine such as you described, but I was busy taling to the nurse that came with him, and crying. Our house was about the same age and there were 55+ layers of paint. I think I would call your state EPA or local health dept and ask them. Our guy had much education- like a chemical engineering degree then his certification, and was very very serious. It was quite reassuring. What good does that do if the 35th layer of paint is lead? As stated before, I think containment often works, but many don't. Maybe her machine isn't functioning properly. I thought almost all homes that old would have lead paint.


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## welldone (May 30, 2003)

She said she used to have to cut paint samples, 2"x2", down to the wood, but commented on how much easier it is now that she doesn't have to do that.

I still haven't received the full inspection report, with all of the actual numbers. That will clear things up, I believe.


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## Subhuti (Feb 18, 2005)

Moms-

We had a lead inspector come into our house. He explained the following: most interiour paint has always been lead free. Lead paint was more expensive and people rarely used it inside unless they were wealthy.

He rarely sees interior paint with lead. He also uses the (highly accurate) method of the handheld radioactive scane that you mentioned. The problem comes when higher quality lead paint (more durable) WAS used inside. This happened in more expensive homes. The other problem is the exterior paint which almost always is full of lead, to give durability. And window sills were painted with more durable lead paint. And sills are the real problem.

Our inspector, very knowledgable, says that the lead in the walls is the POTENTIAL lead. It is not something you are exposed to until the paint brakes down into chips or you do construction. You do not have to worry about it. We've got lead in one bedroom. We are not worried. When we did construction, we just hepa vac-ed (with a NILFISK vac only, see
my earlier threads) very carefully and did other lead-safe practices.

The lead in the lead dust swipes is ACTUAL lead that you are exposed to and IS of concern. You need to clean it up and erradicate the source. But this lead dust can be cleaned up through a true hepa vac (such as nilfisk) and wiping with paper towels. We use baby wipes, as suggested by our lead inspector. Use on per small area, and toss.

Hope this helps, writing this on no sleep, best of luck to all the moms.

We did a lot of reno this summer in our house with lots of lead, and passed most (though not all) the lead swipe tests. Fortunately, Lulu's lead level and mine are low so far. We'll keep testing. We live in a house with lead, but with some simple precautions we can keep it safe. It was expensive to remove the leady windows, but hopefully that was enough. I don't know if I would be so quick to move as you guys... the lead levels don't sound that high (tho scary, I know







) and you're not going to find a lead-free house that easily... Plus, with some simple measures, you can clean up the house fairly well, hopefully.

Best of luck


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## ernestholmes (Jul 24, 2005)

Hola

So I went to this link but it's all about Mercury - why pray tell ought I bug these souls with my lead issues? Just curious - juts because lead is very exact... its junk doesn't translate to mercury's junk exactly if you know what I am trying to say in my feeble way!









Everyone is telling me (esp. my child's neurologist) that my Great Plains test is twaddle (that is where I ordered the hair test) and will never stand as legal proof. I can't seem to find a doic who will test her hair - because her last blood test was at 4 mcg. BUT I also know that does not mean she didn'teat dirt a year ago and get poisoning then. What to do?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Hair tests can be ordered thru Direct Labs without a doctor.
http://www.directlabs.com/
They have a doctor on staff to order them for you, they are extremely nice, even when they were decimated by Hurricane Katrina!

I would pose these questions on the Yahoo Autism-Mercury list.
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury/
There are so many knowledgable parents who have been through testing/chelation for metals, including lead. There may be some discussions in the archives as well:
http://onibasu.com/archives/am/date_index_1.html

See info here from the group http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/ "Procedures for testing for mercury and other heavy metals" for information about the Hair Elements Test that is the basic one recommended. If you belong to Autism-Mercury and mention it to Direct Labs, it's is only $69 instead of $93. It will test 16 metals and 34 minerals.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

There are people on that list who have also dealt with high lead.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Also if you have an ASD child, that list will be invaluable.


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## NoraJadesMama (Aug 16, 2003)

CatskillMtnMama : that is what our lead guy explained to us, too.

Well dh traded out a lot of the soil near the garage. we've been no shoes for a while now, and i'm a hepa-vac fanatic (I never thought i'd have feelings for a vacuum). so i'm guessing our baby is low again... when should i have him tested again?

also i spent a great deal of time a few weeks ago de-leading our kitchen floor, three hours maybe, and it was how i used my very limited "special time" that week, and i really enjoyed it. afterwards i was really confused, had i become some kind of demented housewife, getting fulfillment out of housework? and my dh nailed it: "You're nesting," he said. It made me realize that de-leading, although drudgery, is so meaningful because it's a way of caring for my baby, for which us mamas are clearly hard wired. Interesting. (and not what i expected when i was in college!)

good luck all, and hang in there!


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## welldone (May 30, 2003)

Got our lead inspection report today. (We were supposed to get it 10/10.) Hazards exist on the exterior of every window, porch ceilings, etc.; A room in the cellar has lead paint and lead dust hazards; and a few doors have lead paint. The rest of the surfaces in the home--walls, trim, doors--tested negative!

Is that possible? Help me out, lead knowledgeable mamas. When a surface tests negative, that doesn't mean I'm in the clear--that just means the paint has less than 1 mg/sq. cm. What kind of hazard does that "low" level pose?

We're meeting with Healthy Home Resources on Tuesday. They do free abatement and hazard reduction in my area. I hope, hope, hope they can work quickly to make things safe. We're supposed to move in 11/5 - next Saturday!


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## Subhuti (Feb 18, 2005)

Welldone--
yes, its possible, reread my last post. Your lead test results sound exactly like our house. And every other house! It means you need to be aware and careful, but that you should be OK. How did the lead dust swipes turn up?

Liz


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

It seems like I am always contradicting, but what the lead guys say is not always right. Ours performed tests as did yours, but some were wrong. Our floors were painted- peeling in places, even, and he only did a dust wipe because 'interior paint was rarely lead'. But the count came back so high (5500)- that's AFTER lead cleaning and hepa vacuuming 2-3 times, that he said he should have done a paint chip sample. By the time the test came back, we were out of the place, and couldn't get back in to test it. Our landlords owned a floor refinishing company, so of course we thought they would have checked it for lead. And we had a window come back negative, but he was certain it must have had lead. He said it was perhaps a lab mistake, or a sampling mistake. Also, people do dumb things with paint. Like use the kind they're not supposed to (ala, honey, that's the paint for outside the house, or, one of my friends has a drunk handyman- as I'm sure there others, historically). So, even if people didn't use lead paint inside, according to the experts, actually, some of them did. However, I agree with Catskillmama, I wouldn't desert an old house for a lead level as low as some you all are dealing with. But, I was born before 1978 and grew up in an old house. I just love them.


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## Maman*Musique (May 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *provocativa*
So, even if people didn't use lead paint inside, according to the experts, actually, some of them did. However, I agree with Catskillmama, I wouldn't desert an old house for a lead level as low as some you all are dealing with. But, I was born before 1978 and grew up in an old house. I just love them.

In my state, close to 80% of homes have interior lead paint.


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## chickadee79 (Jan 5, 2005)

Hi. Ds had a finger prick Oct 6. I got a phone call yesterday saying that his lead level was 18 and he needed to come in to get a venous draw and that my older 2 should be tested as well. I have read this thread a couple times since yesterday, and first off want to say thank you for all of the information and also







for everyone, I have been really worried about this.

How long does it take to typically get results back? We went this morning. I think I was told 48 hours, but I was having a hard time digesting the information, so of course everything I was told is in a big confusing jumble. Dh said I shouldn't be worried about anything until I get the results back and then go from there if there is a cause for concern. That is really hard for me to do, but I am trying.

Can/Should I be doing anything while I am waiting to get the results? Should I get tested since I am nursing? I think I read that unless my level is over 40, then not enough to make a difference is getting through while nursing. I have no insurance otherwise I would have just gone ahead and done it today with the kids. Should I not do anything until I get results back? I have a hard time thinking that it was a gross mistake and that it will come back at a very low level, and so want to do something now since there must be lead here.

Thanks.


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## Maman*Musique (May 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickadee79*
Hi. Ds had a finger prick Oct 6. I got a phone call yesterday saying that his lead level was 18 and he needed to come in to get a venous draw and that my older 2 should be tested as well. I have read this thread a couple times since yesterday, and first off want to say thank you for all of the information and also







for everyone, I have been really worried about this.

How long does it take to typically get results back? We went this morning. I think I was told 48 hours, but I was having a hard time digesting the information, so of course everything I was told is in a big confusing jumble. Dh said I shouldn't be worried about anything until I get the results back and then go from there if there is a cause for concern. That is really hard for me to do, but I am trying.

Can/Should I be doing anything while I am waiting to get the results? Should I get tested since I am nursing? I think I read that unless my level is over 40, then not enough to make a difference is getting through while nursing. I have no insurance otherwise I would have just gone ahead and done it today with the kids. Should I not do anything until I get results back? I have a hard time thinking that it was a gross mistake and that it will come back at a very low level, and so want to do something now since there must be lead here.

Thanks.









From everything I have read, finger prick tests are way off.

After testing, I called the Ped's office about 24hrs later and they had the results of our veinous test. I think when I waited for the ped to call it was about 48hrs later. I would put into practice all of the wonderful advice on this thread now. Even though his test could be way off, he might be at a 5 - 10. That is not considered toxic, but it would be a good idea to be proactive anyway. What we did was begin by wiping down our areas we knew had lead paint. We tried the phosphates but the fumes overwhelmed us so we used water. Better than nothing. Also, if you can get a good hepa vacuum like the ones mentioned on this thread, do so. I think your state might be able to help with the financing of that if you qualify. Leave shoes at the door if they might be tracking in soil with lead in it. Wash hands and toys a LOT.

I will be keeping my fingers crossed for you and your little ones. Keep us updated.


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## chickadee79 (Jan 5, 2005)

Thanks so much for the reply. I am definitely going to start wiping everything down today. As far as the vac goes, we have one that says it has the proper filter, but I remember not paying too too much for it, so it probably isn't the best, but it is better than nothing right? Or would it be doing more harm even using it? We certainly cannot afford one of the ones recommended here but wow, would I ever love to have one!

It is so overwhelming about where to start. Our house is pretty big, and pretty old(100+). I guess just work my way from room to room, probably take a couple days!

I will definitely keep you updated, and will probably be calling the dr's office tomorrow afternoon to find if they have the results yet. Thanks again.


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## chickadee79 (Jan 5, 2005)

Here is an update.

Ds1 and Dd have levels of 3. Ds2 has a level of 14. They are going to retest in Jan. I was told that since the other 2 have low levels that it is probably not the house, but could be something that Ds2 has/uses that the other 2 do not. The only thing that I can think of is the fact that Ds2 is nursing and the other 2 are not. My mom thought the same thing when I told her. I am planning on calling back and asking if I should get tested. So, if not, then I just have to wait until Jan to find out if his levels are rising or falling.

I hope everyone is doing well.


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## Maman*Musique (May 13, 2005)

Hi Chickadee,

About the vacuum, if it is an upright it could do more harm than good because, as I understand it, uprights actually send the dust around the house as it vacuums. Canister vacuums are apparently much safer.

About your youngest having higher lead levels, that is normal. Babies that age are putting things in their mouth and spending lots of time on the floor, presumably. My 4.5yo has a 1.5 level and my 15mo tested at 13. Our ped also explained that different bodies metabolize it differently.

I have never thought of testing myself and I am nursing. I don't think that would be the likely culprit. Anyone know about that?


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## chickadee79 (Jan 5, 2005)

Yes it is an upright. Would using dh's shopvac be any better? It has a hepa filter.

I had read somewhere on the net while looking for more info about this, that it can come through breastmilk, but I think it said only if the mother's levels were above 40 or something. Under that not enough to make a difference gets through. I'll have to try to find that info again. I'll post again if I do.

Has anyone tried a home lead test kit from Lowe's or Home Depot or someplace like that? Is it worth it to try? I am having a hard time just saying "ok, we will retest in Jan la-de-da" you know? I just don't know where to go from here except wait and that is really hard for me, not knowing something, or not doing something. I don't even know what the lead problem is to correct it.


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## chickadee79 (Jan 5, 2005)

Ok. Found some. Not what I thought i remembered, so thats good.

Quote:

What has been found, is that the lead levels in breast milk are related to the lead levels in a mother's blood, but breast milk contains only 5% or less of this amount.

Quote:

There is much controversy over how much lead is in breast milk, however, experts all agree that breastfeeding should continue unless there has been severe lead poisoning diagnosed in the mother during her life. Artificial baby milks and cow's milk also contain lead. (Abadin HG., Hibbs BF., Pohl HR. 1997, Newman J. 1992, Rabinowitz M., Leviton A., Needleman H. 1985). Reducing your exposure and continuing to breastfeed is the most effective way of limiting your baby's risk of lead exposure.

Quote:

If the blood lead levels are <10 µg/dL then there should be no cause for concern as the amount of lead in breast milk should be only about 5% - or probably less - of that in her blood (Gulson et al., submitted). As an example, Baum and Shannon (1996) describe two subjects in the USA whose blood leads were 34 and 29 µg/dL. The breast milk contained <10 ppb (see Table 1). If a mother's blood lead level is above 20 µg/dL, it is recommended that a test of the breast milk should be undertaken.

Even if wholly breast feeding, at these low levels, the impact on blood lead of the infant will be small (estimations based on the Physiologically based Pharmacokinetic Model of Ellen O'Flaherty of the University of Cincinnati Medical Centre 1995).
So, looks like unless I have really high levels, not enough to matter is getting through to Ds. If I had high enough levels, I would know, right? Even without a bloodtest, I would know?


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## Maman*Musique (May 13, 2005)

Also, I would think it would be likely that your level is the same or below that of your older children. I am assuming mine is in line with my 4.5yo who is 1.5. Even taking into account the fact that different bodies metablize lead differently, I would think it would be in a similar range. Less even, since I am larger than them. I'm no expert though, just guessing.


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

You would probably have headaches, joint aches, stomach aches and other malaise, enough to have you worried, if you have a high level. I didn't get tested- but I don't have insurance- and I had achey joints upon awaking when we were living in the high lead house. Went away when we moved. Also, I agree that you should not continue using your upright vacuum. You can search this thread for vacuum info. There are mothers here who insist that only a Nitfilsk (sp?) vacuum will do. They are ridiculously expensive to the average household. Cleaning studies do not back up this necessity. Another hepa vacuum would work, but I would wonder about the efficacy of hubby's shop vac, security of the seals and whether the filter needs changing, etc. Now, if you are renovating or removing lead hazards, and not just cleaning your house, you do need the snooty vacuum. Those are very high risk endeavors and really do need professional equipment. Home test kits for lead are usually useless, as they only indicate the presence of lead, and not its concentration, which is the real danger. Another mama on this thread uses them to test toys, however, and that is a brilliant idea.


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## chickadee79 (Jan 5, 2005)

I don't have insurance either. I don't feel sick so that is a good sign. I guess all I can really do is continue doing some of the great advice I got from this thread(washing floors, etc) and will retest in Jan.

Thanks.


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## Jodie (Jul 18, 2002)

Hi all.








My DD had a finger prick test at her one year check up and her lead level was a 14, her venous draw was a 10. Her diet is good (eats well and is still nursing) and we have started moping more often and wiping sills and blinds.We wash hands before meals, she gets a bath before bed,ect.
We rent. The "maintance" men came and tested the spot in the house that is really chipping and pealing, it tested positive for lead. Now they want to move us into another one of their houses so they can scrape and repaint every window frame, door frame, molding, ect. in the house. They also want to replace the windows. Sounds nice but this company has a way of screwing people over.








We are afraid we will never get back in our home(we really love this house).
There is no evidence there is a lead problem elsewhere in the house(they only tested one doorway). Also these were tests from the hardware store, it doesn't tell you how much lead ,just if there is lead. I think we may be "kicked out " of our home.
The land lady says since lead was detected she was instructed to scrape and repaint everything, of course we can't live there while they do.

Is there some sort of law or HUD ordanince that says they have to do a full eradication of lead?

I am thinking they take care of the problem spot, maybe put a freash coat of paint on everything and we continue with the cleaning. DD is being retested in Dec. so then we can go from there. Does that sound resonable?
Or would you all just move to the other house? If we move it will be temp till they finish the work, don't know how long that will take. Worried our rent will go up.
The house we would move to rents for $700, be will will only have to pay the $550 we are struggling to pay now. This whole thing really sucks. Wish I would have thought of testing for lead before we had DD.








TIA for any words of wisdom.


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

It would be rare for just one spot to have lead. If you owned it, containment would be an option. The national law requires that she should have tested it herself and notified you beforehand. Your local law is probably more strict. If you live in a metropolitan area, do go see tenant services, and get informed about your local law. You may be right that the company screws people, but just the fact that they want to fix things makes them way more responsible than landlords here. If it is a historic house, contact your local preservation people too, who might be able to keep them from putting in hideous windows. I think you should move and let them repair the house. It's the most generous offer I've heard from a landlord, but more to the point, it removes the hazard for future generations. You may be able to do some legal wrangling, depending on your legal savvy and your landlord's. You want to get everything in writing. Since probably the hazard should not have been there to begin with, you should act like the whole contract was invalid. You're not going to sue her for leasing you a hazardous house, you can argue that instead of suing her, you want her to pay your moving expenses, and guarantee your rent will stay the same. Bluffing can work! Here, the law would be behind you, I don't know about Alabama. . .


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## Jodie (Jul 18, 2002)

hummm....









Yes we might be able to use the fact that they did not give us info on the lead in the home before we signed the lease 3-4 years ago, to keep our rate the same. According to a hud sheet about lead our health department worker gave us, they are required by law to give us info on the lead in the home before we sign and at any time our rent is raised. Its also their job to keep the paint in good shape. Our worker also told me they should pay for any moving expenses we should have. Moving shouldn't cost us a thing.

Thinking about it more, yes moving would be the best. Well we really have no choice. We are going to keep our current rate in the new home even though it rents for more. Need to find out if that is only until our lease is up or till the work is done. Lots to do.

Thanks for pointing out the fact that this should have already been taken care of or we should have been told there was lead in the home before we signed the lease. Yes, it is an historic home(they have used that excuse in the past for not putting up storm windows







). Going to pay some rent and talk to her today.


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## Subhuti (Feb 18, 2005)

Be very careful with the lead abatement process. If it is not done by people who are lead savy, it can make the house far WORSE. Basically, you are taking everything that is sealed into the wall and scraping it into the environment. The lead dust can be tremendous and difficult to clean. You may have a minor lead problem now (one chippy wall) and end up with a terrible problem later.

When we had our windows replaced, we removed ALL furniture and personal possessions, and covered all the floors and baseboards with plastic tarps, taped down. We used a special hepa vac to clean up afterwards. The window guys wetted down the windows as they tore them out (with water, as we instructed them) so that the dust was minimized. They bagged all the old frames before they moved them through the house and out. We couldn't afford lead specialists, but we trusted these window guys to at least work with us.

Even with all that care, we had more lead in our house (temporarily) after our windows were replaced. Before the renos we had no lead dust (we tested professionally) just lead in the sills and walls. The reno process kicked up lead dust and my husband forgot to clean the new sills after the renos. Thanks hon! Fortunately, they were tested and we realized what had happened and did a thorough clean of the windows. Hopefully, the dust was not ingested. But it's a good example of how sloppy renos can worsen the lead problem.

I would be very nervous about your situation because your landlord is the one currently in control of the reno's. You don't know the quality of the work being done. In our state (NY), I believe there may be rules about hiring only lead specialists to do the renos when a child has tested over a certain level. The landlord may be forced to do this. Also, it may be the law that there must be professional testing before the renos and after the renos (before you are allowed back in). In our state, once a child gets a lead of 10, the state gets involved, and I believe strict mandates come in to play.

It gives you an idea of what the gold standard is of lead abatement: using professional lead abatement contractors and having professional testing of ALL interior and exterior surfaces before (to guide you in your renos) and after the renos.

As a tenent, I would demand these measures. Your power lies in the fact that your child's health has already been harmed and they are liable for this and any future harm. In our state, landlords are sued for any damage to a child when they haven't warned the tenants of a lead situation.

Since they never told you there was lead in the house, they should be bending over backwards to make amends. Rent going up afterwards? You should get it in writing that it will NOT, as well as free rent while you are displaced... And your landlord is getting off easy with that. Consider getting a lawyer to make a few calls on your behalf to let them know you are really serious. It will save you $$ in the end and make sure you have a clean place to live.

Please keep us posted. A 10 is not too bad, and it gives you a good heads up. Best of luck.

Liz


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## Maman*Musique (May 13, 2005)

My dh rented a lead detection gun and checked every single surface for lead (including furniture and toys) The report seems to be off.


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## welldone (May 30, 2003)

Where did you get the lead gun, Maman? I want to get my hands on one of those.

We removed all of the doors/jambs and replaced them this week. We haven't moved into the house yet, so my husband was able to make a mess. But our stuff is being moved into the home TOMORROW and it hasn't been cleaned yet. He's there, as we speak, nailing trim around the doors. The doors/jambs that we couldn't replace (due to time constraints) have just the doors removed so there won't be any rubbing. The surfaces are intact.

What would you do? We're relying on volunteer efforts to move our stuff, and they're all set to go tomorrow. I'm going to spend all morning/early afternoon cleaning with some friends; we've borrowed a HEPA vac (Nilfisk) from a local lead awareness agency, and I've got loads of buckets, mops, and sponges to do the three bucket cleaning method, top to bottom. I plan to not let a box in the door until I've cleaned thoroughly, but after reading testimonies here, I'm afraid that the lead dust level will be high anyway. Will I be guaranteeing lead poisoning for my girls if our stuff is moved in tomorrow? We need to be out of our apartment by Tuesday, so the girls will be living there by then.

I'll admit, I'm very frightened. The lead inspection didn't turn up as many positive surfaces as we expected, yet after ripping out trim around the doors, we see many layers of that old suspicious green paint that is almost certainly lead-based.

I wish that everyone on this thread could be blessed with the money and resources (including the rare knowledgeable, reputable contractors) to have safe homes.


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## Maman*Musique (May 13, 2005)

welldone, DH went online and found the manufacturer who happened to be local. Apparently there are only two different manufacturers of lead guns. I will ask him how exactly he found all this out. I imagine he went online and did a search. What state are you in ?

I would be concerned about lead dust. I know someone posted a link to cleaning instructions that was very comprehensive. You might be able to follow those and be ok. I don't remember your whole story but it sounds as if you/your dh did the deleading yourself. I know the deleading contractors told us that part of their process is removing all of the lead dust in the house. The inspector then takes dust swipes to prove there is no lead dust anywhere. Maybe you could clean thoroughly and do the swipes and be fine.

Good luck and congrats on moving into your home









ETA - welldone, I checked your blog and see that we are located in different states (your girls are gorgeous, btw







)
I did a quick search and found this http://www.niton.com/lead_testing.asp
I can't remember the name of the other company and didn't have time to search this morning but it should be easy to find. I will try to get some info from dh today and post back tonight or tomorrow. We are spending the weekend getting our house ready to show asap---and moving into short term housing. Good luck to you


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## welldone (May 30, 2003)

Well, we ended up sealing off the second floor, as the renovations (removing doors and jams and replacing them) still aren't fully complete. We used duct tape and plastic to create and airlock around vents and the entry to the staircase to the first floor. (I used more duct tape than I've ever used in my life!) We elected to clean the 1st floor and basement very well and move all of our stuff on those two floors. Since our stuff was stored in a friend's basement, it's covered with dust of its own. I'll have to go back and use the Nilfisk on all the boxes.

Long story short, we haven't actually moved our bodies in yet. I'm just too worried about the dust from the second floor, even though we've sealed it off. We're going to finish the work upstairs, clean that floor and the entire house again, and then move in. Hopefully within the week.

But our dusty stuff worries me. It's impossible to wet clean all the boxes and furniture, so dust will inevitably get scattered all over. The basement was in a fifties ranch with no paint on the trim, but still. I have no way of knowing.

Tip for those cleaning with TSP: have lanolin around to soothe your chapped, cracking fingertips afterwards. I've never had such dry, painful fingertips in my life, and I happened upon a lanolin sample in our diaper bag. Now my fingertips feel slightly better--the lanolin did a much better job of soothing than any other lotion or oil could do.


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## pumpkingirl71 (Jul 12, 2005)

I should be scrubbing my son's play room right now









Thank you all so much for sharing your stories. Mine is unwinding and it might never become terrible, but it stinks all the same.

We live in MA and have been trying to have our home deleaded for over a year. My son is 13 months old. The process is actually even paid for. But the money is just sitting in an account waiting. We are next on the contractor's list, but he was in a car accident and doesn't know when he will be working again. And our loan stipulates that we cannot change contractors...

My son's first came back in the high normal range, a 9. That is so scary to me becasue we did everything possible to keep lead away from him. We cleaned, kept him away from chipping paint, and did not open any windows. Still, his levels are high. Hoepfully, we will take a few more precautions and the delaeding will happen and he will never cross that 10 threshold.

Of course my first worry is my son's long term health. But we are also trying to adopt a child. I am so worried that being on record as having a child with elevated lead levels will hurt that process. I know that I am being paranoid, but it is still a worry.

My son has a venous test in two months. Hopefully, it will have come down by then...


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## AnoriensMom (Feb 13, 2005)

Just to update, my dd's latest test came back at 16. The previous test result was also sixteen, so that means it didn't change in those three months. We were de-leading then so I wonder if that had something to do with it.

We are now certified lead free and just have to deal with what I have heard is a long descent back to zero. Happily, I am not crazily freaking out about it anymore. Even though we started with our first test result of 31, dd is growing like she should and is unbelievably smart. Probably the non-stop b-feeding and attachment parenting helped.

More hugs to everyone dealing with this.


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## cortsmommy (Jul 6, 2003)

subscribing to the thread. I just bought an old house (65yrs old) a few months ago and the windows are very very suspicious to me. I'm not opening them up at all. They have been freshly painted on the inside but the outside of them is chipping terribly. ICK! I took my son in today for a blood draw to check his lead levels. I'm going to follow the advice I found in this thread. THANK GOODNESS for this thread!







I will update you all as to his lead levels when I get the results.


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## dove (Jun 13, 2005)

I am subscribing, too. Thank you all for being here to soothe my aching brain and heart. Leo was tested 2 months ago, he was 6.5 at age 9 months. He has been crawling since 6 months, when we moved into this house. It is circa 1920 and was reno'd right before we moved in. Lead was not on my radar, and the landlord did not give us an info sheet or have us sign a disclaimer/waiver, whatever it is called. So, we happily moved in and one night out of the blue I awoke in a cold sweat thinking about lead for some reason. When I first asked about lead, the LL said that the lead paint had been stripped by his grandfather about 30 years ago. Now he has changed his tune and admits there is lead "all over the house". The LL came here with a bunch of do-it-yourself kits and checked a few places ("see!!! there is no hot hits!!!). I have told him we want professional testing to no avail. He is convinced the lead came from across the street where they were reno-ing and demo-ing all summer. The side of their house came up "red-hot" when he tested with one of those little swabs. The prevailing wind blows directly in the direction of from their place right into my front door. I WAS wet-dusting (thank goddess I wet dust as a habit, anyway) all summer like a madwoman. Every day there was dust everywhere. But, it was hot and I had to have the door open to catch a breeze, and figured "what's a little dust?".
SOOOO...
anyone heard of the possibility of it coming from another source like that? I know that airborne pollution from leaded gasoline caused swaths of contamination (prevailing wind off of the highways, busy streets). So, does it make sense that it could be that or am I just kidding myself (hoping for the best)?
I know 6.5 is not that high, but I am still worried sick.
I have a call out to the doc for a script for Leo to be re-tested. The LL wants to know if he has gone up before acting further (cheesy, huh?), and I think he has solidly convinced himself it is not his problemmo.
thanks in advance for listening...
-Kimberley


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## AnoriensMom (Feb 13, 2005)

I was told by the certified lead inspector from the Dept of Environment that the lead in the soil all around our house was most likely not just from my house but also from the houses around us. All he had to do was look up and see the chipping paint on the neighbor's window sills. Also after our windows were replaced, they were doing some de-leading on the front porch. The swipe test for our living room window sill came back positive for lead even though it was a brand new window. The inspector thought the window was probably open when they did the work on the front porch and that the dust from that just blew in the window. I thougtht that sounded so wierd and scary at the same time. He just had me wipe it down and then took another test. Since this evil lead dust is microscopic in size, I would say that it definitely could be blowing inside. like through the screens even. aaarrrhhh.
I didn't open my windows for over a year.


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## Subhuti (Feb 18, 2005)

Hi, Dove-
Sorry you are going through this. 6.5 isn't so bad, my daughter's got a 4. But still, precautions are necessary for future/further problems. I hope this thread is helpful, lots of really good information here.
Liz


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## dove (Jun 13, 2005)

Narnia - omg! So I could be right in my theory!??? It all seems so random and uncontrollable. SCARY!!! Thanks for your input. I had a feeling that this was possible.

Catskill mtn mom - thanks for the welcome. I *know* 6.5 isn't horrible, but I am worried just the same. I am scared it is going up. The ped called this afternoon and said I could come pick up an rx for the next blood draw. I will have it done tomorrow and let you all know how it turns out.








to you all - thanks for being here!


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## Maman*Musique (May 13, 2005)

dove, was the test veinous or finger prick? (sorry if I missed that info) Finger pricks are not accurate at all. If it was veinous, I think taking 6.5 seriously is a very smart thing to do. My dd was low but doubled in 4 months.

There are tons of great tips in this thread when it comes to prevention. Hand/toy washing, HEPA vaccuming, wet wiping down moldings/walls, no shoes, etc.

You should be able to fix the problem. Let us know about the retest









PS - depending on what state you are in, lead paint is taken very seriously. Strict laws are there to protect tenants. In many states if there is lead paint in a rental and children under 6 are living there, it MUST be abated.


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## cortsmommy (Jul 6, 2003)

I was told that my son's levels were "normal" and thats all I was told. How do I go about getting more information and was is meant by "normal" anyone know? Thanks!!


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## dove (Jun 13, 2005)

Maman Musique - thanks for the reply a while back - I fell behind - we've been sick, etc! I got Leo's blood re-drawn last week - hoping to hear a result tomorrow or so. Yes, I have always had it "drawn" from the vein, not a finger stick. The lab we go to does an awesome job and Leo doesn't even flinch. Less traumatic than the squeezing of a fingerstick, even. oops, baby awake!


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## chickadee79 (Jan 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cortsmommy*
I was told that my son's levels were "normal" and thats all I was told. How do I go about getting more information and was is meant by "normal" anyone know? Thanks!!

I have found a bunch of sites online. Here is a pretty basic one I thought. http://lead-info.com/meaning.html
It has the breakdown of levels. "The normal level of blood lead is zero, as there is no safe level of lead. Health department surveliance puts its greatest efforts on identifying cases where the BLLs exceeds 10 (10>µg/dL)."

DS1 and DD both had levels of 3 and I was told that was normal. DS2 had 18 from a finger prick and 14 from a veneous stick and will be retested the end of Jan. They wait 3 months at that level(14) to retest to find out if it is dropping,rising,or staying the same. In PA nothing really is done except retesting unless the level is 20+. Some states that is much lower, I think someone here is in a state that gets involved right away at a bll of 10.

I called my state health department, they have a childhood lead poisoning prevention program. I think you could google "TN health department lead" you might be able to find your states number. They sent me a bunch of brochures about lead and cleaning and renovation and what the different breakdowns of levels are. Here is TN's website http://www2.state.tn.us/health/lead/

Hope this helps and good luck.


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## jrayn (Jul 6, 2005)

I just spent the last 2 evenings reading everything, very informative and overwhelming! My daughter went to her 12 mnth checkup and she has a lead level of 13... I cried when I had to say it out loud to my dp. My house was built in 1972 or maybe it is 1969, I have no idea if there is lead in the paint, the only place that I have seen chipping is outside on the laundry room's wall. I don't have the money to test the house, so I will clean and look for some type of funding maybe they can test the house?
She had low iron as well, I feed her healthy foods but I guess not enough foods containing iron. I really feel horrible b/c I am already a hypocondriac and I knew about lead issues, I even asked teh doctor at her 9 month checkup about doing a lead test and he said they don't do them until 12 months unless the house is older then 1960 I think. That would have been 3 months I could have had to take care of the problem, 3 months of development that could have been helped out, I just feel like the first year is so important - the fastest time the grow/develop (besides in the womb) and now I have hindered it b/c I wasn't cautious enough!








I just wish I knew where it was coming from!!!! There are so many sources!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Dartmouth University Study
Links Fluoridation with High Lead Levels in Children

http://www.nofluoride.com/dartmouth_study.htm


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## Subhuti (Feb 18, 2005)

Scary, thank you for posting the Dartmouth study.

Liz


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## dove (Jun 13, 2005)

Thank you for posting that study. Veeeerrrrry interesting, to say the least.

I just wanted to give a quick update and let you all know that Leo's 2nd venous test came back 3.7, down from 6.5. I am thrilled!








(we did tons of environmental stuff in the home, and he started taking more solids, so I started with high iron foods, etc...)

I wish it were 0 but I am still glad, I was sick to death that it might have increased!

Thanks for all of the continued info and support!


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## richella (Nov 30, 2004)

Subscribing. DD was tested (venous -- took forever, what a nightmare!) at 7.something. Now I think I'll go clean my floors.


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## jrayn (Jul 6, 2005)

I had to go to the doctor again b/c he wanted a different blood test that was for electrolytes and other things, and he wanted to discuss her low iron and high lead levels.
WELL, he told me that the level of 13 wasn't that bad, he prescribed her some liquid iron and said she would get another blood test in 3 months to see what her lead level was then...
That is it?? No contacting the health dept, nothing??
I don't know what to do! I have been searching websites to find some organization that would help low income families with lead issues and I am not finding anything in my area, I emailed someone who gave me links to things I have looked at, the programs were all dated for 2000-2003...

Should I get a different doctor? Or is this normal for doctors to just wait and do another blood test in 3 months w/our really doing anything about the underlying problem-- that there is a source of lead somewhere that is causing elevated lead levels in my baby and I don't know where it is! I know that having an iron deficiency does contribute to absorbing more lead, but I don't want to have to worry for her entire childhood about whether she has elevated lead levels, I want to get rid of that problem!
I was going to get the lead strips that you can purchase for around $20 but someone said they are no good!
I am just so frustrated, she is so smart and I would hate to think that this could harm her!


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## AnoriensMom (Feb 13, 2005)

That new study is scary. We have well water and I never filled the doctors prescription for the flouride. One thing that did get my attention was the finding that lead affects dopamine and seratonin. My dd is a horrible sleeper. Even in our bed she wakes up repeatedly throughout the night and can't even make it through a nap all the way w/o waking up screaming and needing to nurse. I am not sure what is normal, but it seems like she should be sleeping better by this age (27mo). Actually I have a hard time knowing what is normal behavior in any area since I don't have any lead-free kids to compare her to. Sometimes when she is acting really rough or sleeping really bad, I wonder how much of it is because of the lead. Are her dopamine levels messed up?
One good thing I got from that study was the link between future criminals and high lead levels at age 7. I am so glad that we did the test at 12 months and found out earlier rather than later. I would have been sqreeching those windows shut everyday pushing lead dust all over the house, and her level would probably still be 31 or higher now. It's been bothering me that it is taking so long to get back down to zero, but I think it should happen now before she is 7!

I also want to point out that the study mentions that what causes the damage is high lead levels "combined with prenatal or neonatal developmental insults, dietary deficits, and stress." I think the moms here are doing everything in our power to provide good diets, minimize developmental insults, research our options for help, etc.

Jrayn, I am so sorry. Your dd is really cute. I was so freaked out at the beginning too. I thought that nationwide everything over a level of 10 was considered toxic. Have you tried contacting your local health department? There has got to be some way you can get some local spport.


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## pumpkingirl71 (Jul 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jrayn*
WELL, he told me that the level of 13 wasn't that bad, he prescribed her some liquid iron and said she would get another blood test in 3 months to see what her lead level was then...
That is it?? No contacting the health dept, nothing??

Your little girl is amazingly gorgeous









In my state (MA), a 13 is considered "elevated", but not a medical emergency. The process is the same, retest in three months and get a suppliment if iron levels are low. But the health department is contacted and they make an appointment to talk to you about lowering the levels. Did your doctor talk to you about lead abatement/containment? If not, I would get a new doctor.

Do you rent or own? If you rent, I would talk to your landlord right away (or maybe after you find out what your rights are). If you own, see if there are programs in your state to help you remove lead.

I can tell from the pictures that you live a beautiful house. So sad they always have lead









Good luck!

Beth


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

Jrayn, now you now why I have become so disillusioned with many doctors. We even went to a friend from college. Basically, if it is not so severe that there is a dramatic consequence like retardation, it is just a blip on their radar screen. fussy toddler must go. . . . .


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## pumpkingirl71 (Jul 12, 2005)

We live in a two family and the lead abatement on the other unit is complete







so we are living there while our home is deleaded. It is such a relief to be free of lead paint, at least inside. The exterior of the house will be completed as soon as the weather is warm enough. So now unpacking is my only stress, and that is so much better.

Anyone else have an irrational fear of paint chips? There is paint chipping in the house we are living in now, and we know it isn't lead paint. But I freak out when my son goes near it. Hopefully we will start painting soon and then I won't have to live in unneeded fear. I know the house was inspected by the state and has passed, but I can't let go of the fear.

My son has his second test today. I am nervous, both about the results and having a venous (sp?) test. His last test was a finger prick and that was terrible. It is my birthday, so as a birthday present to myself, I am going to be very pushy and request the best technician from the start. You would think they call in the best technician from the start when taking blood from a toddler, but not at my lab









Wish me luck : )


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## jrayn (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pumpkingirl71*
Your little girl is amazingly gorgeous









In my state (MA), a 13 is considered "elevated", but not a medical emergency. The process is the same, retest in three months and get a suppliment if iron levels are low. But the health department is contacted and they make an appointment to talk to you about lowering the levels. Did your doctor talk to you about lead abatement/containment? If not, I would get a new doctor.

Do you rent or own? If you rent, I would talk to your landlord right away (or maybe after you find out what your rights are). If you own, see if there are programs in your state to help you remove lead.

I can tell from the pictures that you live a beautiful house. So sad they always have lead









Good luck!

Beth

The only thing my doctor did is ask if I had chipped paint on my house, I said only on the laundry room which we don't hang around too much, and he said to stay away from it, like that is "THE SPOT" and there is no possiblility it could be coming from some other place, especially since the paint on the laundry room is a paint from after the house was first built. He didn't talk about any other preventative measures, where I could get help, or anything, he even said that anything under 10 is "normal".

I own my house and it isn't that nice but it has potential, I have been trying to find programs in my state and emailed one person who directed me to teh web sites that I already looked at, I guess I will call the health dept in my area, although I have dealt with them and their nutrition knowledge is very... hmmm commercial.

One new piece of info that my grandma brought to my attention is that aircraft uses leaded fuel







: , and I am in the path to an airport that isn't to far away so their are planes flying over my house all day, the emissions are probably just like that of the old leaded cars!!! So, it is possible that it is in the air and soil and if that is the case, even soil replacement wouldn't help!

edited to add: it is truly a shame and very disturbing that doctors are only helping babies/children that have lead levels that cause retardation!!!


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## AnoriensMom (Feb 13, 2005)

I have a fear of window sills in general! We were at a friends house and dd started hanging off the window sill, and I freaked out and told her to stay away from the windows. They did not have lead but just the site of her touching them filled me with fear!
We have never had a finger prick test, always from the vein, and I can tell you that they get more used to it. After doing this every few months for over a year now, dd doesn't cry as much now. Our next test should be next week, but it now takes 30 days to get the results...agony.
I don;t think I ever mentioned this before, but after months of trying to force the liquid iron down our daughter's throat, I started requesting that the pharmacist add grape flavoring. It is only $2.50 and makes a huge difference. Now sometimes she even requests it! But the iron permanantly stains everything so we make sure nobody is wearing good clothes or cover dd with a towel.Now I go back and forth between giving the liquid iron and then not wanting to because of the constipation which does seem counterproductive to lead removal.
Jrayn, I agree that the health department has some wierd views on nutrition. I forget now who I was able to borrow the HEPA vac from. It was only $10. You can't see the evil lead dust, you know. Your doctor should know that jsut because there is only one place with visible paint chipping, doesn't mean that the dust hasn't been spread all over your house. One thinng that terrified me was when the lady from the health department commented that our cats were also tracking it all over the house and onto our bed.
I'll keep my fingers crossed that you can find some good knowledgable help.


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## emma_goldman (May 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maman*Musique*

I have never thought of testing myself and I am nursing. I don't think that would be the likely culprit. Anyone know about that?

Apparently lead stores in the bones for up to 20 years. I remember reading somewhere that the bones are constantly remaking themselves, so conceivably some of the lead goes right into the bloodstream and into the milk. I'm wondering about this too.


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## jrayn (Jul 6, 2005)

Well, I went to the health dept, after waiting 30 mins to speak to anyone, I was given a paper to fill out the details of why I was there so they could "help me better", I explained my daughter's lead level and what the dr was only testing in 3 mnths - no other preventative measures, and I explained that I had heard abt a program that would send some1 to my house to check the lead so that I would know what to remove.
Well, after almost another hour, I went to the window w/ my fussy 13 mnth old and asked the nurse when I would be seen b/c dd wasn't going to be able to sit in my arms much longer and she tells me, "you have a dr already, you should see him." I tell her that I am not here about medical needs, (as the paper says) and ask her abt the program, she tells me she has to research it and will call me later!!! (could've saved me a lot of time if she read the paper and told me that an hr prior, but this is how the health dept works)

well, amazingly I did get a call on the SAME DAY!! from a woman who asks me a few questions abt the living situation and then she says she will refer me to (forgot what she called it) but it is the people that come out and test the home!!! Now it has been close to a week and I haven't heard anything and am wondering if it will take months or what will happen?

If anyone read this much, has anyone gone through the health dept/environmental services? If so how long does this take for the testing of the house to be done?


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## emma_goldman (May 18, 2005)

I just realized that I haven't introduced myself! I have been lurking for a long time. I've been worried about my babe because I have a history of working on my old house and I was careless with what was probably lead dust. (I used to take food into the room with me on a plate and eat it later after doing some sanding on an old wood door, etc., and my cats always slept with me after hanging out in the undoubtedly contaminated soil).

Anyway, I had my own blood levels tested when I was pregnant (the results said <2). I suspect that lead is stored in my bones and that it is slowly released and accumulates in my babe.

Has anyone read Sandra Steingraber's "Having Faith" about her experience with her dd's elevated lead levels? She had the whole apartment checked out for lead (none was found in the swab of dust behind the radiator) and her dh quit his high risk job and the dd still had elevated levels....

Anyway, it got me thinking about breastmilk as a means of transmission.

I want to have blood drawn on my 10 month old because we are living in an old rental and the paint is in BAD shape almost everywhere. (we did test positive with those paint testers from Home Depot.) I am having an eval done (privately) on the house this week to pinpoint the hotspots (I can't live in fear of not knowing and paranoia anymore! -I've been putting duct tape over cracks and parts that babe picks at.). There are some friction spots that drive me to distraction!!! ((You know how when older paint is rubbed by something and the surface gets that metallic look? Does that mean there is lead present??)) Ugh. I can't wait until I KNOW. I can't imagine what you all are living with.

I think of how much cleaning I need to do -babe touches EVERYTHING! Is there a place where one can rent HEPA filtered vacuums?

Also, I've heard that you are supposed to specify that the blood sample be drawn into lead-free vials. Is there a name for these, or something specific I should ask for?

I've only breastfed so far. Babe has been showing lots of bruises on his legs. Should I start to supplement some iron? (For him- I already do some supplementation.) If so, how? I'd love to hear your suggestions.

Thanks, and peace and power to you.


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## Strong Mama (Feb 7, 2006)

Hi I would like to know anyone that has an older child now..that suffered lead poisoning at toddlerhood. My older son now 12 had a lead level of 22 when he was 12months old. We moved out, even though it set us in debt. So luckily the lead was only going into him for about a year. I did everything to stop the lead from getting in..iron absorbtion, wet clean, etc..nothing worked. Now he is 12 with some problems. I would like to know of anyone else in this boat!


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## AnoriensMom (Feb 13, 2005)

doing quick research while dd is napping

"lead does not concentrate in breast milk because it does not attach to fat; indeed, levels of lead are generally higher in a mother's blood than in her milk. Several studies have found higher blood lead levels in formula-fed infants than in breast-fed infants.
Much of the lead in breast milk does not come from the mothers' exposure during lactation. Instead, it comes from lead stored in the mothers' bones. Because lead mimics the beneficial mineral calcium, it is stored for decades along with calcium in the bones. During pregnancy and lactation, a woman's body extracts calcium from her own bones to provide calcium for her child's bone development. Calcium extraction from bone is greatest during lactation, and as a result, lead stored in the mother's bones also enters the blood and breast milk during pregnancy and lactation, posing an exposure risk to the fetus.14 A study in April 2003 confirmed that ensuring adequate dietary calcium intake or taking a calcium supplement before pregnancy, during pregnancy and during the entire lactation period decreases the blood lead level in lactating women. Supplemental dietary calcium most likely decreases the amount of calcium and lead that comes out of the mother's bones. Therefore, women can significantly reduce their baby's exposure to lead by getting adequate dietary calcium or taking a calcium supplement during pregnancy and lactation."
from http://www.nrdc.org/breastmilk/lead.asp

"it has been known for some time that breast feeding also stimulates the release of lead that has been stored in bone tissue.
The authors of the study concluded that breast milk lead levels were directly related to bone lead levels; but they emphasize that the benefits of nursing outweigh the risks associated with lead exposure stating, "It has been shown that lead levels in infant formula are greater than concentrations of lead in breast milk."
from http://www.nrtco.net/~lead/breastfdg.htm

"There is much controversy over how much lead is in breast milk, however, experts all agree that breastfeeding should continue unless there has been severe lead poisoning diagnosed in the mother during her life. Artificial baby milks and cow's milk also contain lead. Reducing your exposure and continuing to breastfeed is the most effective way of limiting your baby's risk of lead exposure.

How much lead is there in breast milk?

Because breast milk is an ever changing substance, it can be difficult to measure and the literature shows a wide range of results. There has also been the problem of contaminated specimens. What has been found, is that the lead levels in breast milk are related to the lead levels in a mother's blood, but breast milk contains only 5% or less of this amount. Having your blood level checked is a simple way of estimating the risk to your baby.
from http://www.lead.org.au/lanv6n2/update002.html

I guess the bigger question is how this lead poisoning will effect my daughter when she breastfeeds her baby.

I got the results from her latest test back this morning. It went up, not good.
The progression has been 31, 30, 25, 21, 19, 16, 16 and now 17.
Between the 31 and 16 was when I sealed all the windows shut and cleaned like a maniac. Between the two 16s was when the lead abatement was done. I was upset that it did not change during those three months but I was not too worried since all that work was done. But now, months after our house is supposed to be lead-free.....aaarrrgggg!!! I have a call into the nurse at the health department that has been helping us. My first thought was maybe my bmilk. I have never been tested, but after doing this bit of research it seems that I would have needed to be lead poisoned as a child with my nusing now leaching the stored lead from my bones out into my milk.
Will keep you all posted as I learn how this increase could have happened.
oh, my baby....it was supposed to have gone down, now we have to wait more months til the next test...

Fedup, not sure if i can handle your answers right now, but what kind of problems is your son having? What was your progression down from 22 like? It is zero now... right?

Djwratha, I just looked through my "lead folder" and saw that I was able to rent the hepa vac from the county's planning and zoning dept. not sure why it is there, but worth checking your county's.

jrayn, for me everything with the health dept happened pretty fast. just keep at it. later, trying to get a grant for the work to be done, I had to call consistently and even sent in a picture of my adorable dd, so that these guys behind the desk would see that we were not just some numbers. be a fierce mama squeeky wheel.

more hugs to us all


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

Jrayn, for us it took a month until the State environmental inspector to get to our house (and that for a level more than double your dc's). Our local health department had not applied for federal grant money to cover lead certification/inspection. They sent an upper level Nurse Practitioner, who was trying to get the certification back, and a nurse "nutritionist" who seemed to be neither. That month in between the blood test and the house test was torture, and more cleaning than I'd ever done in my life. Constant cleaning.


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## jrayn (Jul 6, 2005)

thank you for the answers about health dept's response timing, provocativa and AnoriensMom, it is really hard to be patient as everyone here knows!

FEDUP, I am also interested in the older children that had high levels, when did you first notice problems in your child ? (I read that they don't show up until later in childhood)
My dd is only 13 mnths old so I don't have answers although I wish I did!


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## Strong Mama (Feb 7, 2006)

Hi yes his lead level is 0 now! Thankfully. He has problems concentrating in school, mood swings, but he is very smart and in the gifted classes in school. His problems have just started to show up this year. He seems borderline ADD, but I do not like the term ADD so I will say he is very spirited!







I hope someone has some info about this!


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## heatherik (Feb 2, 2006)

Hi everyone. We are in the same boat here as my 14 month old son Henry has a level of 17. It has gone up since five months ago when it was at 14. HPD came and tested our apartment and submitted their complaints to the landlord who promptly had the unsafe areas painted. We were away on vacation at the time and were not here to observe what was done. We assumed everything would be fine afterward and were not incredibly worried. It so happened that the week that he got his second blood test results HPD came to retest the work that the landlord did 5 months ago and found that it was a quick fix and the problem was not solved.

I have since quit my 2 day a week job to be with him all the time and am taking him away for 8 days or until the problem in our apartment is resolved. My husband plans to be here when they do the work on Monday. I wish that I had taken this more seriously when it was first detected. This time around I was determined to find other people who have been through this or are going through it now. A friend of mine sent me a link to this site and I am so relieved that this exists. I have been having terrible nightmares of not being able to keep my baby safe in all kinds of scenarios. The more I read about lead poisoning the more paranoid I become.

I have postponed weaning him from the breast and am giving him iron supplements every day. He is getting .06 ml per day. This is what our pediatrician prescribed but I would like to know if you all think it should be higher or lower and is there a particular brand to recommend. He seems to be making all of the milestones for his age though he is very hyperactive. If he was older I would say that he has ADD but it is hard to judge at his age. He is also small for his age in some cases still fitting in to 6-9 mo clothes. You see, I am paranoid!!


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

Welcome, Heatherik, to the club that no one wants to belong to. I can only briefly answer your questions. I don't recall that lead poisoning at your son's level can be related to slow growth. Was he premature? If your ped hasn't mentioned it, well, people do come in all sizes and bigger isn't always better. However, optimum nutrition is essential both to prevent issues from the lead, and for better growth, too, so I would definitely read all this thread and then check out the Nutrition and Good Eating forum here. Most western diets are deficient in many nutrients. As for supplements, it is proven that food based vitamins and minerals are absorbed better- iron or otherwise. So, optimizing diet (adequate calcium and iron + C) is better than a supplement. If that is not possible (picky toddlers!) then most of us would advise a food-based iron supplement, from the health food store. A dark stool or constipation would indicate poor absorption. Prescription supplements are almost always synthetic, and poorly absorbed by many. A lot of us cook in cast iron, too.
There are also studies indicating that breastfed children have fewer severe symptoms then formula fed counterparts. I think weaning under age 2 is ill advised, but my mom was an LLL leader, so you can surmise our family culture about that one!
My mom has thought my dd was borderline hyperactive, too- but I have no comparison. As for the ADD, I worry about it. And, since I know for certain we have the lead poisoning for a risk factor, I have eliminated all other risk factors within reason. She watches no children's TV, and only sees the thing on when dh is home. Very little sugar, and no food additives like MSG or food dyes, no processed foods like hot dogs- all of those things exacerbate ADD. Before we even knew of the lead, I had her on a modified version of the 'brain health' diet advocated by the autism docs (extra fatty acids, etc).
As for the landlord, lead containment is a viable option. But the whole house will have to be lead cleaned, and if there is lead paint outside, it is still a problem because of microfine dust and tracking it in/blowing in through windows. Even if they painted chipped areas, there could be residual dust. (see our cleaning threads)
I never let anyone babysit my dd in our old house either. I guess I thought they would let her eat paint? Well, I knew they wouldn't be as diligent as me.


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## emma_goldman (May 18, 2005)

Wow, I just re-read everybody's posts. There were a few months in there that I missed with the info about breastmilk transmission and flouride and indoor vs. outdoor paint. Thanks, all for the great information.

We have high lead levels indoors on two walls and a door (and some of our furniture!) and outside (with paint chips galore!). We had an inspector come with an "XRF gun". Still waiting to get the report. Still, it is not as bad as I thought it would be (because I hadn't read the PP about indoor paint being different from outdoor!).

So good to know where to focus. We have two old doors that create friction and paint dust...That is my nemesis right now. Am coming up with a plan for how to minimize risk with painting and a cleaning schedule and keeping the cats from contact with the contamination outside...

Are really high lead concentration tile countertops okay in a kitchen? even if they are chipped? The inspector blew it off... It seems like you wouldn't want to put acidic foods on the tile??

POWER to the wonder-Moms (YOU ALL!) who work so hard to make the world better!!! Is this not a lesson for why poverty is a downward spiral?? It gives me motivation to lend a hand for those who have to deal with low-income housing.

Thanks again for the info!


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## hipem (Jul 13, 2005)

My ds is 18 months old next week. We hadn't done his lead test yet. But he has had a little bit of peeling paint in his room...on Saturday we finally tested it and the test came back positive. Then I realized that the sanding my dh did before we moved in on the baseboards downstairs was likely reaching the lead paint. I just tested a couple of places (the dust on top of the door jam) and it was also positive. My ped said to bring him in on Friday for a test. I'm not sure how to wait that long. Should I call back? Do I need to keep him from playing with the toys? I guess I should also has dd's checked? She is 4 1/2 and had two tests and I was told both were normal - we were in older houses at the time.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated...I'm feeling a bit like I'm going to have a panic attack about it.


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## AnoriensMom (Feb 13, 2005)

hey, hipem, I'm in Maryland too, and I know they have some good lead resources. not sure how to give you advice on calming down. had a few panic attacks myself. but
op gotta go


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

My advice would be to read this whole thread, and start lead cleaning now. Doing something proactive will help the panic- most of us have been there. Let's not even mention mama guilt. When the state lead inspectors finally came to my house, they were annoyed that I had lead cleaned. But it took them f***ing forever to get there, and none of my relatives offered a place to stay and we couldn't afford a hotel. It's no fun thinking your child is playing with poison.


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## Subhuti (Feb 18, 2005)

with all of us moms dealing with this terrible issue. Just been catching up on the last 5-10 posts, seems like so many of us struggling to protect our children.

Lulu (aged almost 18 months) was OK (don't know exact numbers) since our summer renos and replacing all our (super high lead) windows. I was so scared that the act of reno (including on two lead walls) and tearing out the windows was going to poison her. KWIM, you try to protect them and you end up making the situation worse!

If you do borrow a vac from the health department, make sure it is certified (this means a peice of paper with a number and a description) to do lead abatement. Ask, insist, to see this paper or the specs before you use it. Otherwise, you will be blowing lead dust everywhere.

May we all get through this with the least damage possible to us and our children, and their children...

Liz


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## AnoriensMom (Feb 13, 2005)

the nurse who was helping me at the health dept got in touch with a lead specialist in my state and he said that this increase in her level means that she definitely still has some exposure to lead. am racking my brain aoubt how that could be possible in a now lead safe house. I also asked the nurse to find out what a normal progression would look like and he told her that in a lead-free environment her levels should drop by half every 4 weeks. but he was quick to point out that it is nearly impossible to have a lead free environment these days. but still, it makes me wonder if we had just moved instead of renovating if she would be down to zero by now. I guess I'll see if I can get the guy to come back with the wand.


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## hipem (Jul 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AnoriensMom*
hey, hipem, I'm in Maryland too, and I know they have some good lead resources. not sure how to give you advice on calming down. had a few panic attacks myself. but
op gotta go

I changed his appointment and took him to get his blood drawn today. Should know more in a few days. It will be a hard wait, one which I'm sure you mamas are all too familiar with.


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## heatherik (Feb 2, 2006)

Thanks Provocativa for acknowledging my post. I have been away with no access to a computer. I have been vigilantly feeding him nutritious foods though he is very picky. He loves black strap molasses and whole yogurt. He is finicky with all fruits and vegetables but we are finding creative ways to get him to eat. Thanks for leading me to the healthy eating section on this site.

I went away with my baby while they worked on our apartment. My husband hired someone to test our apartment while we were away and he found a lot of lead in places including where the work was done. The bathtub read off the chart levels of lead but we haven't found any evidence of enamel posing a threat. Apparently HPD doesn't test tubs because they say that the tough surface can not be ingested and that the lead from the enamel does not leach out into the water. HPD is coming again on Saturday and we will have them test in the places where the other company found lead. The landlord does not have to fix anywhere other than where HPD orders him to.

We are here only for one night and are going to stay with my parents tomorrow. We will most likely end up moving. I am just worried that we will encounter this problem everywhere we go with a baby as active as ours. Anyway, he is having his third lead test tomorrow and I am praying that the numbers will go down.


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## jrayn (Jul 6, 2005)

Well I haven't heard from the lead inspectors yet but it hasn't been a month yet so I am just being impatient, it feels like it has been more then a month.
I have been telling my grandmother about all the horrible effects of high lead and she was advised by her boyfriend who happens to own a health food store, to take Hypatia to a holistic doctor to get a hair analysis and sooo she did, she paid for it b/c god knows I wouldn't be able to as much as I did want one, I have to wait until Monday for the reslults but I am hoping that maybe the Dr from there will have something that will help to get rid of the lead safely, and some new advice, although I have gotten a ton from here I am always open to hear more!
Will post the results and any advice I was given


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## pumpkingirl71 (Jul 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heatherik*
Apparently HPD doesn't test tubs because they say that the tough surface can not be ingested and that the lead from the enamel does not leach out into the water. HPD is coming again on Saturday and we will have them test in the places where the other company found lead. The landlord does not have to fix anywhere other than where HPD orders him to.

Every state is different regarding lead law, but in my state, they also say that tubs are not dangerous. Our tub read very high and the inspector said that is only matters if you have the tub refinished. I am glad, because I love my tub : )

I wouldn't worry too much about the areas that the HPD does not order fixed. The laws are very conservative in most states. What state do you live in?

Good luck : )


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## heatherik (Feb 2, 2006)

We live in New york City. They have pretty tough laws on negligence regarding lead but it is hard to get anyone to do anything about it.


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## AnoriensMom (Feb 13, 2005)

I am mostly posting to bump this back up on the list for any new lead concerned moms.
Has anyone had any recent testing done or other good news to share?

jryan, what did that holistic doctor tell you?


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## Raynbow (Aug 2, 2004)

I'm hoping I don't have to join this tribe. I just learned that the reservoir that supplies my town with water has lead levels *7* times the allowed limit. The Water Authority claims that they treat the water and that the lead levels in the water that comes out of our taps is within allowed limits. I don't trust them, period. I'm calling my pediatricians and having my kids lead levels tested. I've stopped letting them drink the water - actually I stopped a month ago due to questions about cancer causing chemicals leaching into the reservoir (a fish was found with a certain kind of cancerous tumors), but my little one still drinks his bath water (which is gross on soooo many levels, but he's 3...) and we brush our teeth with this water and bathe in it.... *sigh*


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## gardenmom (Apr 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AnoriensMom*
I am mostly posting to bump this back up on the list for any new lead concerned moms.
Has anyone had any recent testing done or other good news to share?

Yes--checking in--dd had a blood work up about a month ago and was at 1.4 The lowest result yet (though she was never above what they call 'safe' levels--7.1 was the highest). I suppose that meand that my Nilfisk Vac and vigilant cleaning practices are really working, despite the fact that we have not de-leaded anything in the house. Also, dd's iron level was higher than it's been previously, so I imagine that plays quite a role as well.

Still being cautious...


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## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

I just found this thread as I am debating having my 12mo tested. I have the paperwork for a routine test from my ped. We live in California in a house built in the 50's. All of the baseboards and trim was replaced before we moved in. We don't have carpeting either that would hold anything. The windows have all been replaced also. My main concern would be lead coming from outside the house. WE spend a lot of time outside and the kids play in the dirt. I guess I will go ahead and have the test done. I really dread having to put him through that. I am sort of thinking as I type so excuse my rambling. We have a stucco house w/ some wood trim. I guess my best bet is to have my kids tested and if it is a problem start w/ the house and soil. Thanks for all of the wonderful info. I hope I won't need it







. My heart goes out to everyone dealing with this.


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## richella (Nov 30, 2004)

Our house is about that period, and the inspection before we purchased turned up no interior lead, but then dd got it. fortunately our MD does routine lead testing at 12 mos. So I would recommend having the test done. It sucks, but it's less traumatic than some of the alternatives. (Like full-blown lead poisoning.)


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## jrayn (Jul 6, 2005)

Today I finally got the products from my dd's holistic doctor one is waiora made of zeolite, he said to give 1 drop 3x a day, I will give the link, and b/c of the extra wear on the liver he gave us a liver protect supplement called xymogen it has alpha-lipoic acid, silymarin, selenium and n-acetyl-l-cysteine in it, he said to give half of the capsule's contents a day.
,
it was friday last week when we got the results it took forever, but the results make me feel even more paranoid then ever b/c it shows other heavy metals too and it doesn't look good....
she is high in aluminum, antimony, arsenic..., lead of course, nickel and her tin level is through the roof!
I am baffled and don't know what to do as far as sources, I am not going to use canned goods anymore.. no more tinfoil that touches food, she used to play with cans (carry them around) but I have put them all out of reach, I don't know what else I can do, she plays by our large window and I imagine the silver part of the window is either aluminum or tin but I am not going to block the entire window from her. I haven't got a clue about the arsenic or how to test for the sources of arsenic if it is in my house... antimony... I don't know about that one either, I feel even more helpless.
but hopefully these potions will work and the waiora says it is safe for long term use
http://www.waiora.com/products/item26000-NCD.php

http://www.xymogen.com/xy_products.asp?code=000032


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## chickadee79 (Jan 5, 2005)

Checking in. Things have been hectic here just with normal things. DS was retested in Jan and his level had gone from a 14 to 11. So it has gone down. His iron levels were fine when his lead was at 14 but in Jan his iron was low so we are on an iron supplement now. They are also concerned about his weight since he is said to be in the 3rd percentile. But I don't put much stock in that considering he is breastfed and also because we are all small ourselves.
He is supposed to have another lead test soon to make sure the lead level is still going down. No clue what caused it, or what changed to have it go down instead of up. We didn't have anything tested because it is only paid for by the state if the level is higher than his ever was and we cannot afford to do it ourselves. My only thought is that it came from when we moved into this house Oct 04 and did a lot of work to get it ready to move into that there was lead dust and it came through me while I was still pregnant with him and his level was much higher but it had gone down by the time they tested. I do not know. That is a scary thought though.
I hope all you other mama's dealing with this are doing alright. I will be keeping you all in my thoughts.


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## welldone (May 30, 2003)

It's been a while since I checked in. We had our house fully inspected in October before we began work on it (we were living in an apartment and had just purchased this house). Thankfully, most walls and trim were negative! It's a 1929 bungalow, so that suprised me. We elected to replace every single interior and most exterior doors (including jambs and trim) anyway, as being negative for lead doesn't mean there isn't any lead there--it's just below "acceptable" limits.

Odd things tested positive: one wall and the door in the master bedroom, a teeny entrance on the side of the house, one basement floor. Did people just randomly paint small areas of their house with lead paint? So weird.

We've had the girls' lead levels tested three times since we moved in. The first two, blood draws, were below three (they never would give me an actual number, which is totally bothersome). The third was yesterday, and it was the finger poke. I know it's not as accurate, but it's free through the health department, so I thought it was worth it. If there's anything even close to an elevated level indicated, I'll be getting another blood draw.

90% of the houses in my county were built before 1978. And yet a majority of the family practitioners and pediatricians around here treat lead poisoning like its no big deal. Most moms I talk to either don't care are or completely misinformed.

A new friend of mine just had her baby tested--she was a 17. I'm so sad for her. But it gave me an outlet for all this frustration--I told her everything I know about lead!


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

In my research, lead is stored in bones, and other tissues. It's not just in the blood. So, a blood level could go up in theory, or not down very quickly, because the body is removing lead from a storage spot, so to speak.
Anoriensmom, didn't you mention febrile seizures upon waking a little while ago? DD had them too, and outgrew them around age two. Common in infants, but not toddlers. Scary. I'll blame the lead if you will!


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## AnoriensMom (Feb 13, 2005)

no, I never mentioned seizures, but dd would wake up screaming, thrashing about and gnawing her teeth. And I would have to restrain her, but I just looked up febrile seizures and that sounds a bit different. she is gradually becoming a better sleeper. The worst of those symptoms were occuring between 12 and eighteen months, when her lead level was the highest. I will never know if that was the cause of it, but head and muscle aches from the toxicity would make sense. It's not like she could tell me what she was feeling.
welldone, the closet door in dd's room was covered in lead paint, so I think that yes, people did radomly paint with lead paint.
jryan, the zeolite drops look interesting. thanks for posting link.


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## emma_goldman (May 18, 2005)

So good to hear from you ladies. It is such a struggle, no? I am constantly cleaning and wiping hands. I feel like I'm going crazy.

My babe had a blood level of 5 three weeks ago at 10 months of age. After visiting my parents for 10 days, I hated coming home to this contamination zone. All I think about is ways to mitigate his exposure.

I'm wondering about my tea kettle- the solder. I'm wondering about his air particulate exposure (we live in a county that has high air-borne lead levels according to the EPA). I'm wondering about how much the cats bring in on their fur. I'm wondering how I can get the landlord to do the work on the chipping lead paint outside and replace the doors inside and out...

Keep up the fight, ladies! Power to ya.


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## emma_goldman (May 18, 2005)

Gardenmom,

what supplements/foods did you give to get iron levels up? My babe is 11 mos old and he still isn't eating... Any suggestions from my MDC sisters?

Glad to hear about your success. It makes me feel hopeful. I'll try to talk DH into a nilfisk. How many times per week do you wipe down the house?

TIA,
Deb


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## jrayn (Jul 6, 2005)

Djwratha how do you find out about the air particulate exposure - this has been my most feared paranoia, I would love to find out about it and either confirm it or let it go.


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## jrayn (Jul 6, 2005)

Djwratha how do you find out about the air particulate exposure - this has been my most feared paranoia, I would love to find out about it and either confirm it or let it go.

If anyone decides to get the 2 products that my daughter's doc got her, the liver protect supplement I have been giving my daughter is very SPICY, because she can't take the whole pill much less swallow one, I have to take the powder out, the first time I just mixed it w/ some plain yogurt and honey and she was very mad and she coughed and spat, I tasted just the smallest amount and it made me cough too. Then I mixed it w/ fruit preserves.
Today I mixed it with a lot of yogurt and fruit preserves and she enjoyed it and only coughed once, I didn't have to chase her once.


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

My midwife recommended dandelion as liver support. Just add dandelion root (nearly tasteless) to some chamomile tea, etc. Very easy, if your child likes tea. And a good idea in general for anyone who takes Tylenol or other stuff that is bad for the liver.
Anoriensmom, that sounds like a seizure to me- grand mal, nearly. Maybe there's a different medical term if they aren't shaking. I know our ped didn't care. Perhaps it's an undocumented effect of exposure? That's what I think, anyway.


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## emma_goldman (May 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jrayn*
Djwratha how do you find out about the air particulate exposure - this has been my most feared paranoia, I would love to find out about it and either confirm it or let it go.

Hi Jrayn,
I called a California EPA number and spoke with someone about lead and she said that if you live near a roadway you get some exposure from leaded gasoline (I'm guessing this is from diesel; I should have asked for clarification). Does anyone else know? We live in a canyon with a tight small road and a construction and delivery trucks send their fumes right into our house which is above the road. Maybe it IS time for an air purifier? But it is a trade-off with the ozone-increasing effect. Why airborne lead a fear for you?

All,
I was so heartened to hear about Gardenmom's success with cleaning only. I am wanting the Nilfisk vacuum now...

Keep strong for our babies' sakes!


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## jrayn (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Djwratha*
Hi Jrayn,
I called a California EPA number and spoke with someone about lead and she said that if you live near a roadway you get some exposure from leaded gasoline (I'm guessing this is from diesel; I should have asked for clarification). Does anyone else know? We live in a canyon with a tight small road and a construction and delivery trucks send their fumes right into our house which is above the road. Maybe it IS time for an air purifier? But it is a trade-off with the ozone-increasing effect. Why airborne lead a fear for you?

Keep strong for our babies' sakes!

I read and was told that some airplanes are fueled with leaded gas and an airport is close to our house, so airplanes are flying over us constantly which means if they are actually fueled with leaded gas we pretty much are having lead emissions rain on us daily.


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## emma_goldman (May 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jrayn*
I read and was told that some airplanes are fueled with leaded gas and an airport is close to our house, so airplanes are flying over us constantly which means if they are actually fueled with leaded gas we pretty much are having lead emissions rain on us daily.

We got to rise up! We can't take this anymore! The way we live is literally killing our kids. Let's see what we can do in the activist threads. Sometimes I feel like I can SEE the toxins all around us -we live in a soup of toxins.

The women I spoke with at the EPA said that a lead blood level below 10 is "normal for a child living in an urban setting". Sucks to be us, huh? So now it is "normal" to be toxic.

We as mothers are the only people who are going to change the world. I'm convinced of this. We have a lot to do to clean house... I'm pumped to ROCK the HOUSE down!

Jrayn, I just got a huge pamphlet in the mail from the EPA; I'll see what I can find. What I did read already said that emissions from traffic accumulates in dust. in our homes. in the topsoils. There is an article in The Nation magazine about the fight to get unneccessary lead out of gasoline in the '80s.


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## emma_goldman (May 18, 2005)

I want to implement a shoes-off policy in the house but we have NO ENTRYWAY and a very cramped doorway. And DH doesn't want to rearrange furniture. (DH is so resistant to the idea so it has to be something easy, too). ANY IDEAS? I'm thinking an attractive bin next to a chair near the door for our often-worn shoes and then do extra wet wipes in that area...???? He still isn't taking his shoes off right when he comes in or if he's doing little chores like emptying trash cans and doing recycling.... I need help with this. How can I make it stick?

TIA,
Deb


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## emma_goldman (May 18, 2005)

Oh yeah, Does anyone know how to check vessels for lead (i.e. kettles, pottery)? The EPA has a number listed for questions about this but I haven't called...


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## jrayn (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Djwratha*
I want to implement a shoes-off policy in the house but we have NO ENTRYWAY and a very cramped doorway. And DH doesn't want to rearrange furniture. (DH is so resistant to the idea so it has to be something easy, too). ANY IDEAS? I'm thinking an attractive bin next to a chair near the door for our often-worn shoes and then do extra wet wipes in that area...???? He still isn't taking his shoes off right when he comes in or if he's doing little chores like emptying trash cans and doing recycling.... I need help with this. How can I make it stick?

TIA,
Deb

My dp forgets constantly and it makes me sooo angry, but he is getting better, we have a box although not attractive, just a cardboard box next to our door, I have no problem kicking my shoes off into it, I dont' wear tennisshoes so it isn't something I have to put effort into but my dp wears tennishoes tightly tied and he has to sit down and take them off so it is harder I guess he gets lazy, I tried to use a sign but it was ignored by many people and then it fell but a obvious sign would help for reminding, that is how I got into the habbit was this big green sign in my face.
Just keep at your dh, I give mine a guilt trip about how their could be lead in our soil or other ppls soil and all the problems she will have b/c he keeps wearing his shoes in the house.


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## richella (Nov 30, 2004)

Got our second test yesterday. It is so awful to stand there and watch someone stick a needle in your baby's arm. I was so ready to tell them to forget it and walk out! But of course we need to know the lead level. Dd cried through the blood draw, and really screamed after.

Sigh.


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## Maman*Musique (May 13, 2005)

For the pain, we have been using the EMLA cream and it has been a miracle! We did not use it for our baby's first 2 blood draws and she screamed the entire time. It took hours to get her calm afterward







Then we discovered the EMLA cream and got a prescription for our older child when he got his last blood draw. He said he didn't feel a thing. We used it last week when our baby had her lead check and she didn't even flinch! I can't tell you how happy I was not to see her in so much pain this time. It is expensive but insurance may cover it and I have heard that it might be available over the counter now.

Our update - after being out of our house for 5 months we had our 1.5yo tested for the first time since leaving. She came down from 13 to 4 !! We are so happy and especially feeling great about our choice to leave/sell our house. I know it isn't feasible for most but we had to leave immediately when we found out our baby's lead level more than doubled in a matter of a few months. We have sold and moved on - we could not be happier!

Keeping my fingers crossed for all of you strong mamas and your babies.


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

I always sat in the chair, and held my daughter in my lap. She was calm that way. That is the way the phlebotamist suggested it. Also, a more experience phlebotamist is really much better than a newbie. Demand the most experienced person- we switched labs after the good gal left. Someone who knows how to smile, gives a toy or sticker, and encourages you to massage or otherwise relax you baby is a must. A tense atmosphere, including the parents standing away from the child and being tense themselves, is sure to scare baby and increase perception of pain. And a little Rescue Remedy right before or after would be a cheaper solution, we never needed it. I guess I'm lucky dd doesn't have a great neuron densitiy where they stick her, or something like that.


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## richella (Nov 30, 2004)

The last time the tech couldn't get a good stick, and had to do it over. When he did get it, the blood came really slow and then dried up altogether before he had enough. That's probably part of why she cried so hard this time. It was the same guy, but when he had trouble palpating the vein he went and got a nurse. She was really good and fast. Right about the time the needle went in I thought, I should have given her some Rescue Remedy. But we were 20 mi from home and had some errands to do before we went there, so it just wasn't an option. Thanks for reminding me, I forgot I had that thought!


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

At this point, I am very picky about who sticks a needle in my child. Don't let that guy near your kid again. I'm actually looking for a new ped, one of the reasons is I don't like the university hospital lab. It's big and impersonal, and sometimes dirty.


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## richella (Nov 30, 2004)

We got test results today. Dd is down to 6 from over 7. I am so relieved! We didn't have to do a lot, just washed hands more, esp. before eating and after playing outside, and we kept the floors cleaner. Changes I can live with. It's not as low as I'd like it to be, but after reading some of the experiences some of you other mamas have had to go through, I feel we are very lucky now.


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## emma_goldman (May 18, 2005)

Yea Richella! It's moving in the right direction! How long did you wait before having your second test? I've gotta do it...


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## richella (Nov 30, 2004)

The first test was at 12 mos. We were supposed to have the second test at a standard wbv at 15 mos, but for some reason we got the timing wrong and didn't do it until past 16 mos.
There's a funny balance between being anxious to do it again, waiting until it's been long enough for change to happen, and not wanting to go in and go through the needle and everything. . . .


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## NoraJadesMama (Aug 16, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maman*Musique*
Our update - after being out of our house for 5 months we had our 1.5yo tested for the first time since leaving. She came down from 13 to 4 !!

Maman*Musique that is excellent news! You went through a lot to get that nice low number. Congratulations.

Our update is that I finally dragged my 3 kids down to county health, and after an excrutiating ordeal they finally got blood from my baby for a re-test (he had been an 8, and we have taken lots of measures and have been hoping that he's lower)... and weeks passed... I call, they say be patient... i wait...no results... and after another phone call today I am told they are very very sorry, but they never heard from the lab, have no record of what lab they sent it to, and in sum:

It's as if it never happened.

And they can't even give us a refund without a receipt.

And they suggest we go to Quest and start fresh. And they are very sorry.

AARGH! I am just crushed.


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## Maman*Musique (May 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NoraJadesMama*

Our update is that I finally dragged my 3 kids down to county health, and after an excrutiating ordeal they finally got blood from my baby for a re-test (he had been an 8, and we have taken lots of measures and have been hoping that he's lower)... and weeks passed... I call, they say be patient... i wait...no results... and after another phone call today I am told they are very very sorry, but they never heard from the lab, have no record of what lab they sent it to, and in sum:

It's as if it never happened.

And they can't even give us a refund without a receipt.

And they suggest we go to Quest and start fresh. And they are very sorry.

AARGH! I am just crushed.









Oh no. I am so sorry. We have had our own nightmares with our facility mixing up results, horrendous blood draws, etc. I am so very sorry. Keeping the hope that your babe is ok. Hang tight mama. You have done so much to make your environment safe I am sure his levels have come down. Keep us updated.

On a positive note, every time I read one of your posts I think about how "Adventures in Tandem Nursing" was such an inspiration to me when I was nursing my two. Thank you so much for that


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## NoraJadesMama (Aug 16, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maman*Musique*
Oh no. I am so sorry. We have had our own nightmares with our facility mixing up results, horrendous blood draws, etc. I am so very sorry. Keeping the hope that your babe is ok. Hang tight mama. You have done so much to make your environment safe I am sure his levels have come down. Keep us updated.

On a positive note, every time I read one of your posts I think about how "Adventures in Tandem Nursing" was such an inspiration to me when I was nursing my two. Thank you so much for that










Aw, thanks for the sympathy -- I knew the moms on this board would understand this particular horror. Thanks also for the kind words about my book--I'm so glad it helped you! That means a lot.


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## jrayn (Jul 6, 2005)

I just wanted to let everyone know, I had my daughter tested again for lead, (blood test) and it has went down from 13 to a 6 in 3 months!
I haven't did much different around the house, I did 1 lead cleaning but I really thing the reason it went down is because of the homeopathic dr's supplement. Waioria.
It is a mixed blessing b/c now she will not qualify for assistance in finding the source in the house, they never came it has been 2 months. I guess I will just have to save up for some test strips from Lowes.


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## ernestholmes (Jul 24, 2005)

we lived in a house with 100-500 times the legal limits for lead EVERYWHERE without knowing for 4 years.

I am convinced they are not testing my child properly. Yet, I can't find a doc who knows what they are doing who wants to take it on.

She was diagnosed with autism two and a half years after we moved in

Still not convinced it's not related. amputated dog, dead dog and a dog wit hbone cancer - autistic child and mom with chronic sudden onset migraines

Coincidence??? You tell me! (not!)


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

Ernestholmes, I am so sorry. You need a DAN doctor! Also, try to contact PEHSU of your region- I've lost my links to a crash, but it is the Pediatric environmental health specialty unit, with regional offices around the country. They are very busy, and should only be bothered with serious cases, not slightly elevated levels. The lady that runs communications in my region raises a special needs child. It takes persistence to get through, and I would recommend following up phone calls with a letter- emails get lost often. But the doctors are the TOP in their fields, and would probably consult with or educate your doctor, as would a DAN doctor if you made a trip to see one once.


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## NoraJadesMama (Aug 16, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ernestholmes*
we lived in a house with 100-500 times the legal limits for lead EVERYWHERE without knowing for 4 years.

I am convinced they are not testing my child properly. Yet, I can't find a doc who knows what they are doing who wants to take it on.

She was diagnosed with autism two and a half years after we moved in

Still not convinced it's not related. amputated dog, dead dog and a dog wit hbone cancer - autistic child and mom with chronic sudden onset migraines

Coincidence??? You tell me! (not!)

I am so sorry to hear of these troubles. Whether they are related to the other problems or not, those lead levels have scary implications. I wish you the best in pursuing this matter. It's not easy getting good answers (or good lead abatement, or good lead tests, or....) Hugs.


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## richella (Nov 30, 2004)

ernestholmes -- when I was a door canvasser for Greenpeace, I once had a really bad day. House after house I found families that had been devastated by catastrophic illness. Cancer, leukemia, others I had never heard of. (Needless to say, these people did not have much money to give to non-profits!). I went back to the office and when I told my co-workers what I had found, they said, "Oh yeah, you must have had power line turf." That is, there were big main cables running through the neighborhood. It was common knowlege among canvassers that where you have power lines, everyone is sick. Your house sounds like that.

Wishing you all improved health.


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## richella (Nov 30, 2004)

Anybody else had this yet:

Me: Oh! DD is eating, and I haven't washed her hands since she was out playing in the yard!

Other person: That's okay, it's good for her immune system.

Me: (a week later, when I thought of it) Yeah, that lead is good for her immune system . . . .


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## jrayn (Jul 6, 2005)

yes my mom is always telling me that dirt is good for the immune system too!


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

I really do think soil organisms are good for the system, and it is one of my guilt points from before when we didn't know about the lead. Now, she can play in the dirt at mom's farm, but I try to be careful in the city. We've had this scenario (eating with dirty hands) twice already, and it's not even summer yet. Sigh.


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## richella (Nov 30, 2004)

I know the germs are good, I just think dd gets plenty from kissing the cats and eating cracker crumbs off the floor. Maybe if we kept the house cleaner, it would be an issue. I just got a little irked because I felt the person was trying to tell me not to be a germophobe, which I most certainly am not. Sure germs are good for the immune system, but since when is it wrong to wash hands before eating?


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## AnoriensMom (Feb 13, 2005)

I've got good news to post. My dd's latest test results came in at 12 !!!
To recap, over the past year and a half it has been 31, 30, 25, 21, 19, 16, 17, and now finally 12. When it jumped back up to 17 we learned that she was still getting exposed even in our newly lead abated house. I am happy to report that we have sold that house and have moved back to Virginia. It will be interesting to see low it will be the next time.
I go back and forth (only silently to myself) about whether she is showing signs of damage from living with such a high lead level for so long. I guess only time will tell. My mom thinks this will just be a note in her babybook!
Hope everyone else has good news too.


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## richella (Nov 30, 2004)

That's really good news. I'm sorry it took so long to get to this point, that must have been hard to deal with! I hope things go well for you in VA.


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## ~member~ (May 23, 2002)




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## AnoriensMom (Feb 13, 2005)

thanks for bumping this up. it reminded me to take dd for her next lead test.
will post results once we know.
hope everyone else is doing well.


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## CountryMom2e (Apr 1, 2005)

Coming to this thread late but we too have been dealing with lead exposure. Our son tested 17 at his 1 yr blood test (venous draw, not a finger stick). We moved out of the house three days later and started on a massive paint removal/abatement project. We've sunk our life savings into this project - the numbers are staggering - and now we are weeks away from being done. Meanwhile, DS's level is down to 6 at the last test, about 4 mo ago, and when I was pg I never got over 2.

I am terrified that we will move back in and it won't be enough. Or that our youngest will test positive. We are getting a HEPA vac (God, they are expensive!), have a HEPA shop vac as well, and plan on wasting a lot of paper towels and swiffer wets to keep our house clean. Minimizing curtains, throw rugs, and fabrics too. Anything to keep down the lead dust.

Right before we move in, DS is getting retested. Thank goodness his levels never went over 20 (which is when our health dept. gets involved) so we did this project voluntarily, without oversight. Would not have been able to afford the project with oversight!

So far, no developmental changes at all - in fact he is above all of the charts in terms of growth, vocabulary, physical development and coordination, etc. Just a bright, fun, healthy nice kid









GL to all of you also dealing with this - so scary!


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## emma_goldman (May 18, 2005)

I'm sending my best to you Mommies, too.


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## AMum (Nov 30, 2001)

Lila's lead level went up







She was initially a 26 (11/05) then a 24 (3/06) and now a 28 (8/06). I am so bummed out. Especially since in my mind I thought all of those numbers were in the teens, 16, 14, rather than 26/24. How did my brain do that? Wishful thinking I suppose.

From what the lead inspector who came out in Dec said, all of our lead issues are on the outside of the house. He didn't want to file a report or take dust samples, b/c it was nearly Christmas and if he did we would've only had 6 weeks to comply. It was very nice of him.

This past summer we removed the entire back porch and an overhang that went most of the way across the back of the house. All covered in lead paint. Dh used his infra-red paint removal tool to strip the door frames (basement and back door, both go out to back yard) and the main floor brick molding on the windows. (he taped plastic across the whole back side of the house from the inside) After that we marked off a patio that covers an area that runs almost the width of the house and 14' out into the yard. We covered that area with crushed limestone, about a foot thick. My bil gave us a load of nearly dead sod (he was clearing space for a garden and we didn't pick it up quickly enough), which I used a garden fork to chunk up, and smooth over a large section of our yard. That gave us some good coverage and amazingly enough grass is growing in that area.

We still have a long way to go though b/c our carriage house is covered in lead paint. Dh is reroofing it (a summer project that should've been finished before he started teaching again, but a few paying projects came up and its not yet complete) and will then start on stripping it, again with the infrared paint removing tool and lots & lots of plastic coverage.

I am ordering the nilfisk family vac today. It can't get here soon enough imo.

And I'm stepping back up the wet moping and cleaning. Damn, I really slacked off on that this summer. It is so hard to get stuff like that done with three kids, homeschool and all the other stuff that goes on in life. I could kick myself for not doing a better job.







:

We'll be getting a call from the city to schedule another lead inspection, and the lead health nurse is going to come along. Ugh. I don't think she likes us much, we're too far out of the box (re vaccines and our approach to healthcare in general), I think.


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## naturegirl7 (Jan 27, 2005)

This is my concern as a mom of a 14 mo - DH didn't push for DS to be tested at his 1 yr exam, so I have to go next time and push for it.

I only got thru the first page of posts - but I wanted to pass along something I just learned recently in nursing school

Lead dust from windows accumulates onteh sills, and is blown right off the sills and onto the floors where kids play. Try to NOT open the windows, or get ones that open from the top.

And this is the most important thing - cleaning often is a must - BUT you are supposed to use a specific chemical to remove the lead. I *think* it was some sort of phosphate, but I am not positive. I do remember my prof telling us that most cleaners had this ingredient, but that it has been removed cuz it is so bad for the environment. Now, PINESOL is the ONLY cleaner on the market that binds to the lead and removes it from your windows, floors, etc. Also vacuuming - it can help, but removing the carpets is the only way to get the lead out of the carpets (unless you wash them with Pinesol I guess).

I just wanted to pass that Pinesol info on. And wish all of you the best in this difficult journey you are on.


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## richella (Nov 30, 2004)

AMum, I hear you about the mopping. I've slacked off a lot too. One week I tried every day to get the toys picked up enough to do a thorough sweep. Every day we'd get some done and dd would start playing with one or someone would come to the door or whatever, and I swear I couldn't get the toys picked up all week. I finally gave up and swept around them. It would be funny if it weren't so serious!

I think you're doing the right thing not vaxing, though. Lila has enough toxicity to deal with, she doesn't need all that formaldehyde and stuff.


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## AMum (Nov 30, 2001)

thanks Richella. Yep, I'm firm on the non-vax, I just hate to have it come up. And why the hell wouldn't they see that this is not the time to inject her with more heavy metals, kwim? The last time the lead inspector came, he did a random drop in which I wasn't too happy about. Since the health nurse is going to come along I think we'll get an actual appt. Dh really wants to be here when they come and I'm so glad to have his support.

It is just so depressing that it went up 4 points and I feel so negligent. I should've had her levels tested in April. I am so horrid about making appts, keeping track of paper, paying bills, all the family secretarial jobs that fall in my lap.







Then the results are bad and I feel panicked and guilty and like our house is so disgusting. Bleah.


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

Sadly joining this tribe unless our confirmation bloodtest shows the first was a mistake. The county health people are stumped. My 13 month old has lead levels of 47.


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## AMum (Nov 30, 2001)

I'm sorry you have to join the group Stacey!









Since they're stumped I'm guessing you don't live in an older home or apt? Could it be the soil in your yard or something?

I hope you figure it out and are able to eliminate the source. Hang in there.


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

Well, we do live in a house from the 1950's (my Mom's house), but it was totally renovated by the previous owner about 10 years ago. New vinyl windows and such. My husband and I are renovating parts of a 125 year old Victorian, but had _thought_ we were being very cautious, changing clothes and shoes before we came home, etc. It's our first house and we thought it was our dream house. Now, even though Luce doesn't go there, I'm totally afraid of it. I'm ready to sell it and buy a 10-year old house--new enough for no lead, but old enough to have off-gassed the formaldehyde. Sad, we live in such a toxic world.


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## richella (Nov 30, 2004)

I'm so sorry Stacey. I hope it was a mistake! Wish I had some advice to offer, but I don't.


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

I hope it's a mistake too. She's a very bright, very developmentally-on-target kid, with no symptoms of lead toxicity that I can see. The county people who came to interview me today were a little stumped, between my mom's house and their quick assessment of Lucy. The visiting nurse is coming back Thursday to "play" with her to measure her against the developmental norms. But she walks forwards and backwards, sings, spins, climbs stairs, communicate needs and desires and has some words. I don't know. Maybe I'm just in denial.


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## AMum (Nov 30, 2001)

Did they do more than one test? When Lila's came back at 27 my doctor sent us back for another test the next day. That came back at 26. Over 40 sounds awfully high for a child whose environment doesn't indicate lead exposure.


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

We did go get another test today. The county people requested it. They said that they didn't want to get my hopes up, but that they felt it could be a mistake. Please keep your fingers crossed for us!


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## AMum (Nov 30, 2001)

They're crossed!


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

Well, we got the second blood test back. It's a 37, which is weird, because it fell that much (from 47) in just one week with no treatment. Our pediatrician never sees lead cases, so he's stumped too. He has a call into the pediatric doc at the hospital and hopefully that conversation will shed some light on it. In the meantime, she's taking an oral chelation treatment... It's so ironic to me that I'm so hyper-aware of environmental and health things, and that I try as much as I can to minimize her exposure to toxins, while friends and neighbors feed their kids whatever, and this happened to us.

Just out of curiosity, did anyone else have their child's levels fall quickly for no apparent reason? Any clues as to why this would happen?


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

Don't forget lead in toys. Some midwestern libraries gave toys with lead out as prizes this summer. A sudden, large exposure rather than a chronic one would yield a faster chelation, I think, as the lead wouldn't be so knit into other tissues. Scary. . . .


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

I actually ran around like a madwoman yesterday, swabbing all of the toys and other household objects that she puts in her mouth. Nothing. I was totally convinced that it was this little wooden blue donkey, but nada. We do think that it's actually the siding renovation that was done on my Mom's house a couple of months ago (we've been living with her for a year). Home Depot's subcontractors did a terrible job cleaning up.

Did anyone else do a Chemet chelation with their child? Is there anything nutritional or herbal, other than low-fat, high calcium, high vitamin C, high iron, that I can do to help her either eliminate the lead, or at least deal with the treatment? It's only the second night of the treatment, but she wakes so often and so unhappily. The longest stretch we got was 2-1/2 hours last night, and so far tonight it's been every 20 minutes. Of course, I don't know how much of that is the chelation and how much is staying in a strange house (we're at my dad's until Mom's house gets the all-clear).


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## emma_goldman (May 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *staceychev*
I actually ran around like a madwoman yesterday, swabbing all of the toys and other household objects that she puts in her mouth. Nothing. I was totally convinced that it was this little wooden blue donkey, but nada. We do think that it's actually the siding renovation that was done on my Mom's house a couple of months ago (we've been living with her for a year). Home Depot's subcontractors did a terrible job cleaning up.

Did anyone else do a Chemet chelation with their child? Is there anything nutritional or herbal, other than low-fat, high calcium, high vitamin C, high iron, that I can do to help her either eliminate the lead, or at least deal with the treatment? It's only the second night of the treatment, but she wakes so often and so unhappily. The longest stretch we got was 2-1/2 hours last night, and so far tonight it's been every 20 minutes. Of course, I don't know how much of that is the chelation and how much is staying in a strange house (we're at my dad's until Mom's house gets the all-clear).

Oh! I am SO sorry Momma. This has also been my obsession and greatest fear. HUGS.

The vinyl siding was my first thought, too. Don't forget other vinyl sources like diaperbags, lunchbags, etc. and PLASTIC toys (did someone mention that?).

You may try Floradix for good iron absorption?? Mommas?

Don't forget the high protein component. And NO flouride, which is another heavy metal (including from your water supply).

Some Mommas here have posted some herbs/homeopathics (?) for chelation but it would take hours for me to find it. Mommas? Do you remember?


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

Floradix is wonderful. I think I would megadose vitamin c (hyland's for kids is buffered). . . she should take a ton of it. There's an interesting thread over in health and healing, read up on it. Medical chelation is really rough, I don't think I'd do herbal chelation with it, rather herbal support of her filtering and excretory systems- go to a homeopath if there's one near you. Dandelion root for liver support. Do take the time to read over this thread for suggestions. I don't agree with low fat diets for kids. Food sources are better than chemical vitamins, oh, and eat iron and c together, calcium separately. . . . Sea vegetebles are high iodine, and Concentrace makes a kid friendly sea vegetable mineral supplement, cod liver oil is a must, and the floradix . . . waking baby


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

Should I still do the Floradix, even if her hemoglobin is good? It's in normal levels, and my doctor only talked to me about making sure she got alot of calcium and Vit-C, but said that iron wasn't as much of a concern. I'm going to get some of the Hyland's tomorrow. (I do know about the vitamin-calcium disruption thing because I'm hypothyroid and have to be careful about interactions with my synthroid. Lots of fun when I was pregnant!)

We have a naturopath who lives down the street from us. I think I'll give her a call. Thanks for all of your replies!


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## AMum (Nov 30, 2001)

Stacey, can you tell me anymore about the iron levels, b/c my doc thinks iron is very important. Could be b/c Lila initially tested with low iron.


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## Janelovesmax (Feb 17, 2006)

Please PM me. I know and use an absolutely breakthru natural product that I can recommend to get rid of lead and other heavy metals. Without going thru the liver! Please PM.


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## jrayn (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *emma_goldman*
Oh! I am SO sorry Momma. This has also been my obsession and greatest fear. HUGS.

The vinyl siding was my first thought, too. Don't forget other vinyl sources like diaperbags, lunchbags, etc. and PLASTIC toys (did someone mention that?).

You may try Floradix for good iron absorption?? Mommas?

Don't forget the high protein component. And NO flouride, which is another heavy metal (including from your water supply).

Some Mommas here have posted some herbs/homeopathics (?) for chelation but it would take hours for me to find it. Mommas? Do you remember?

I went to a homeopathic doctor, we got a product called Waiora you can order it from the internet and we also got Xymogen which is a liver protection but good luck getting it into your child if he/she can't swallow pills yet, I had to mix 1/2 the pill with a bunch of yogurt or icecream and it had to be a lot b/c it itches teh throat (kind of spicy like)
that is what he prescribed..

she started out as lead level 13 and the homeopathic doc did a hair analysis, lead was high with that as well, 3 months later after taking the waiora, she was down to BL 6 or 7.

Janelovesmax please share this product with everyone, I would def be interested in something that didn't req going through the liver and I'm sure everyone else would too!









Way way back many pages ago there were some great cilantro pesto recipes that had nuts and I made the pesto, it was really tasty, if your dc likes it, it is packed full of nutrients and is supposed to be a natural chelator.

edited to add recipe (I didn't use the braggs or liquid amino due to being a soy source)
Cilantro Chelation Pesto

You will need:
. 4 cloves garlic
. 1/3 cup Brazil nuts (selenium source)
. 1/3 cup sunflower seeds (cysteine source)
. 1/3 cup pumpkin seeds (zinc, magnesium sources)
. 2 cups packed fresh cilantro (coriander, Chinese parsley) (Vitamin A source)
. 2/3 cup falxseed oil
. 4 tablespoons lemon juice (Vitamin C source)
. 2 tsp. Dulse Powder
. Bragg's Liquid Aminos
DIREctions:
Process the cilantro and flaxseed oil in a blender until the cilantro is chopped. Add the garlic, nuts, and seeds, dulse, and lemon juice and mix until the mixture is finely blended into a paste. Add a squirt of Bragg's Liquide Aminos to taste and blend again. Store in dark glass jars if possible. It freezes well, so purchase cilantro in season and fill enough jars to last through the year.


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

I'm not really interested in an herbal chelation right now. I _wish_ my daughter's levels were a 13, and I might consider it then, but right now we're going the allopathic route because she's in a very high-risk level, testing at a 47 (as in, if she didn't take the pills I'm giving her, they'd want to admit her to the hospital for in-patient treatment). If they want her to do another round of medical chelation after this one, and if her levels are significantly lowered, I'll consider the herbal route. Right now I'm looking for _supplements_, herbal and nutritional, that are going to support her little body in this tough process. Thanks for the reply, though. I've got this thread marked and I will keep it in mind.

Thanks for reposting the chelation pesto. I bought the cilantro the other day, but need to get the nuts!


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## jrayn (Jul 6, 2005)

the cilantro pesto is good with cheese noodles and chicken, that was the only way my daughter would eat it.


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## Janelovesmax (Feb 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jrayn*
I went to a homeopathic doctor, we got a product called Waiora you can order it from the internet and we also got Xymogen which is a liver protection but good luck getting it into your child if he/she can't swallow pills yet, I had to mix 1/2 the pill with a bunch of yogurt or icecream and it had to be a lot b/c it itches teh throat (kind of spicy like)
that is what he prescribed..

she started out as lead level 13 and the homeopathic doc did a hair analysis, lead was high with that as well, 3 months later after taking the waiora, she was down to BL 6 or 7.

Janelovesmax please share this product with everyone, I would def be interested in something that didn't req going through the liver and I'm sure everyone else would too!









Way way back many pages ago there were some great cilantro pesto recipes that had nuts and I made the pesto, it was really tasty, if your dc likes it, it is packed full of nutrients and is supposed to be a natural chelator.

edited to add recipe (I didn't use the braggs or liquid amino due to being a soy source)
Cilantro Chelation Pesto

You will need:
. 4 cloves garlic
. 1/3 cup Brazil nuts (selenium source)
. 1/3 cup sunflower seeds (cysteine source)
. 1/3 cup pumpkin seeds (zinc, magnesium sources)
. 2 cups packed fresh cilantro (coriander, Chinese parsley) (Vitamin A source)
. 2/3 cup falxseed oil
. 4 tablespoons lemon juice (Vitamin C source)
. 2 tsp. Dulse Powder
. Bragg's Liquid Aminos
DIREctions:
Process the cilantro and flaxseed oil in a blender until the cilantro is chopped. Add the garlic, nuts, and seeds, dulse, and lemon juice and mix until the mixture is finely blended into a paste. Add a squirt of Bragg's Liquide Aminos to taste and blend again. Store in dark glass jars if possible. It freezes well, so purchase cilantro in season and fill enough jars to last through the year.

You are not going to believe this, but I was talking about Natural Cellular Defense from Waiora.
If you didn't start on this product, start ASAP. Your homeopathic doctor did you a great deal of favor by giving it to you.

It's a liquid zeolite that gets rid of all toxins and heavy metals out of your body without going thru your liver. If anyone wants details and testimonials, please email me at [email protected]

It helped children with autism as well, by getting rid of mercury from their body.


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## Janelovesmax (Feb 17, 2006)

Sorry, I saw that you already did start on this product with your daughter with great results.
I'm not kidding about this product...


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## AMum (Nov 30, 2001)

So, this is from a multi-level marketing company? Damn I hate that! I want to be able to order it or buy it w/o the catch.







:


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## AMum (Nov 30, 2001)

So, looking at their website, a 4 pack of that stuff is $199.xx dollars. And they give no indication of dosage, so far long does $200 worth of natural cellular defense go? I know that I should be willing to pay any amount of $$ to help my baby lower her lead levels, but multi-level marketing, come on!!!

I think marketing in that way really takes away from the credibility of the product.







:


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## Janelovesmax (Feb 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AMum*
So, looking at their website, a 4 pack of that stuff is $199.xx dollars. And they give no indication of dosage, so far long does $200 worth of natural cellular defense go? I know that I should be willing to pay any amount of $$ to help my baby lower her lead levels, but multi-level marketing, come on!!!

I think marketing in that way really takes away from the credibility of the product.







:

So what that it's form multi-lever marketing, I wasn't trying to sell anything to you. Do you want to help your daughter or not???
One bottle lasts one month if you take 1-3 drops a day. It's a tiny little bottle, but all you need is few drops. You really need to talk to someone in the company that can recommend appropriate dosage for the child her age with the lead levels she has.
Well, it's up to you. Whatever you want to do, my job is to speak out and say it.


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## AMum (Nov 30, 2001)

Jane ~ I'm sorry I didn't mean to offend you. I have btdt with multi-level marketing and I don't like it, just mo, and we're all intitled to those.







I didn't mean to come off so strongly though. I won't go into my multi-level marketing rant, but ultimatly its a scheme. Again, just my opinion.

And yeah, I expected the "do you want to help your dd or not" card to be laid down. I may run it past my doc. (she's holistic, not just medical).


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## AMum (Nov 30, 2001)

"do you want to help your daughter or not?"

That comment does not sit well with me.


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## Janelovesmax (Feb 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AMum*
"do you want to help your daughter or not?"

That comment does not sit well with me.

I'm sorry, Ashlea. I sent you an email. I really am.


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## AMum (Nov 30, 2001)

Its all good Jane.







:


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## Janelovesmax (Feb 17, 2006)

Thank you, I feel better, I felt terrible b/4.

Anyway, if anyone is interested, here is the info with testimonials and such:
http://www.liquidzeolite.org/


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## jrayn (Jul 6, 2005)

when my hollistic prescribed waioria, my daughter was around 13 months old and he said the first month to start off with 3 drops 2X a day then down to 1 drop 2x a day.
He never tried to get me into selling it or anything, I had no idea it was a multi-level marketing product but the results were just what I was looking for!


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## Janelovesmax (Feb 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jrayn*
when my hollistic prescribed waioria, my daughter was around 13 months old and he said the first month to start off with 3 drops 2X a day then down to 1 drop 2x a day.
He never tried to get me into selling it or anything, I had no idea it was a multi-level marketing product but the results were just what I was looking for!

I'm glad it worked out for you, which I had no doubt that it would.
It is not a requirement to be a distributor to get this product, you can be a prefered customer only.
Your doctor is probably a distributor, but out of goodness of his heart and good ethics, he didn't want to get you signed up.


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

Lucy's blood levels are down to 9, from a 47 2 weeks ago. YAY!

Someone asked about iron, about a page ago--as far as I understood, high lead and anemia seem to go hand and hand. I'm not sure why. So, because of this, it's a good idea to take an iron while trying to get lead levels down. It has something to do with lead mimicking minerals, but I'm not sure how. I'd have to do some more research. But, that might give you a good start for a google search. If you find something else out, let us know.


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## richella (Nov 30, 2004)

So was the 47 a mistake? Is it possible that it was accurate but her level fell that much that fast?


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

She's been tested 3 times in the 2 weeks or so (actually, longer now). First time, level was 47. Then, retested, because the County Health person swore it had to be a mistake. That was about a week after the first test and her levels were 37. After 5 days of chelation (a 19 day proces), it was 9.


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## richella (Nov 30, 2004)

Well, I don't understand it but it's awesome news. How's it going identifying the source?


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

Just a quick follow-up.

Lucy is doing really well. Levels were 7 a week ago, about 5 days after finishing treatment. We think the lead is from the threshhold of the front door--we used to leave the door open with the glass storm door and Lucy would sit or stand there and watch the world go by. But, of course, it's just a guess. We're not positive.

Happily, the case is being closed by the county, and our ped said that we can get blood levels taken less frequently now. Yippee!


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## welldone (May 30, 2003)

Great news, Stacey!

We're still working on the lead abatement around our home. Thankfully, we had a lead inspection done before buying this house, so we we knew we were lucky to find a house with as few interior lead problems as this one. There are only a couple of walls with lead-based paint on them, and all the walls are in good condition and have been painted over.

The exterior, however, is another matter entirely. Both front and back porches are chipping leaded paint. We avoid these entrances altogether and use only the side door.

I'm posting today because my husband just started the scraping and painting of our little back porch. I'm freaked out, because I know how little lead it takes to poison us. (Just a piece of dust the size of a grain of salt, right?) We're super cautious (to the point of being obsessed); the entire porch is taped off with duct tape and 6 mil plastic sheeting, including the floor; my husband is wearing coveralls and a mask thing approved for lead paint removal; I make him wet his head (the only thing not covered while scraping) and strip naked before he can come into the house, and then it's straight to the shower!

But despite all of these precautions, I'm so worried that we'll get lead poisoning somehow. I have the girls' lead levels tested after any renovation that even comes close to disturbing lead paint, or ever six months, whichever is sooner; my doctor thinks I'm nuts, but he (thankfully) writes a lab order whenever I ask. So far, no discernable lead levels have been detected.

Why am I so freaked out? What else can I do to make sure the porch paint stays inside the little plastic room we've created?


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## hipcoolmama (Oct 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AnoriensMom* 
As I am waiting for the results of my DD's 4th lead test it occured to me that I can't be the only mother going through this. This is a "tribe" I am reluctant to be in, but we found out when they did her 12 month blood test that her lead level was high (31). I am so glad we did that test. We are now giving her iron twice a day and have located the lead paint in and around the house. I would love to talk to other moms dealing with this. Have you had trouble giving your child the liquid iron? How do you get the stains off the teeth? Have you had the Dept of the Environment and Social Services come through your house? How long did it take for the lead to leave their system?

You are not alone, unfortunately. I think anyone who lives in a structure built prior to the mid-70s has the risk of having lead paint in their home. I think the first thing is just being aware of the problem so you're ahead of the game! There is a ton of information on the Web about this topic.


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## AnoriensMom (Feb 13, 2005)

Wow, it was a long time ago that I posted that first message and started this thread. Almost two years ago - my dd will be three in a few weeks. I learned more about lead than I ever wanted to know, but thanks to all you other moms, I did not feel like I was the only one going through this.
I don't even remember all the numbers now. I used to have her levels memerized. I know it started at 31, then went very very agonizingly slowly down. then after the lead abatement it went back up from 16 to 17. After that test we sold our house (to people w/o kids because I am conviced there was still some lead in there somewhere) and moved to a house with no lead issues. After two months her levels came back at 9. !!!!!!!!!
I had been asking different professionals how quickly the lead would be coming down if there was no more exposure and most people did not want to give me any numbers, or couldn't. One person told me that with no exposure he thought the numbers would drop in half every two months. Even though we had all that professional work down, she was obviously still getting it somehow. I miss some aspects of that house, but not the fact that it was making my daughter sick. I am so grateful to be in a healthy house now. My dd is still very intelligent and shows no signs of damage. Her new doctor said she won't need to be tested again for awhile, a big relief to my dd.
I hope all of you are doing as well. Thanks for all the knowledge and support over the years !!!


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## richella (Nov 30, 2004)

Wow, what a long haul it's been for you. I'm sorry that you had to go through all that -- all the work, then had to sell anyway. Such a relief that her level has fallen so fast!


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## AMum (Nov 30, 2001)

We just had our second home inspection yesterday. And this past Saturday Lila & I went to the lab for lead tests. They wanted to retest me since she's still nursing so much. A waste of $$ imo. Lila's lead level went up to a 28 from 24 over the summer.







: I am convinced its from our inconsistency with keeping a shoeless home. Not an easy thing to talk dh into, but he gets it now. We're 100% shoeless now. I keep a pair of shoes at the basement and attic steps and slip them on & off when entering & leaving those areas.

This inspection was far more thorough. The guy who came out in November used the meter, but took no dust or soil samples. He said it was because it would be difficult for us to comply in the winter months. At the time I thought he was being helpful, now I'm not so sure. I'm terrified of what the dust samples will show.









Lila shows no signs of lead poisoning. She is small compared to our other two at the same age, but I can't attribute that to the lead poisoning without question. Otherwise her language, motor, social, humour







skills are all right on target.


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## Crazy Basil (May 22, 2006)

subbing


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Hi mamas. I'm interested in this thread because we're dealing w/mercury toxicity in dd2. (Other metals too I'm sure.)

Just wanted to post this threadabout the zeolite. We're using it for dd and while it really really seems to help, I"m not totally convinced that it actually chelates.

I have an appt. w/a DAN doc next week and am waiting to see what he recommends.


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## AMum (Nov 30, 2001)

Lila's lead level is down to 19!! I'm so excited to see such a marked decrease 9 points. Whew, I hope they continue to decrease, we're totally shoeless in the house, using the nilfisk vacuum daily (for the most part). We should be getting all the dust swab test results soon too.


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## counterGOPI (Jan 22, 2005)

hi mamas. i just found out my dd (13 months) has high ;ead levels. we are working on the legal issues now (we rent our house) what can i be feeding her etc to drop the levels? we have an enviromental person coming tomorrow to test the whole house we may move depending on the results.


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## wsgrl84 (Jan 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *counterGOPI* 
hi mamas. i just found out my dd (13 months) has high ;ead levels. we are working on the legal issues now (we rent our house) what can i be feeding her etc to drop the levels? we have an enviromental person coming tomorrow to test the whole house we may move depending on the results.


Foods that are high in calcium, iron and vitamin c.

Good examples are broccoli, grapefruit, yogurt

High in Iron:
lean meat, chicken, turkey, fish
dry beans and peas
broccoli
raisins
cereal

High in Calcium:
milk, cheese, yogurt
broccoli

High in Vitamin C:
oranges, orange juice
grapefruits
potatoes
tomatoes


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## counterGOPI (Jan 22, 2005)

thanks mama!!
anyone know of the best high phosphate cleaner for lead removal?


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## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

Hi everyone! We just bought a house built in 1920, and I worry about lead. We will be moving in two weeks. It has all new windows and a brick exterior, so no paint on the outside. But there are a couple of places where the plaster on the walls is cracked and peeling. A contractor told us we just have to scrape it off and paint over it, and it would be fine. I've read only the first page of this thread, and will continue reading more. Also there is an old claw foot bathtub. Do they have lead? Can we just have it resurfaced?


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## Pam_and_Abigail (Dec 2, 2002)

I have just recently decided to look into lead for my kids, as we live in an old house. I haven't read this whole thread, just the first few pages.


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

Quote:

anyone know of the best high phosphate cleaner for lead removal?
I just keep hearing about using dishwasher soap, like Cascade.


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *counterGOPI* 
what can i be feeding her etc to drop the levels?

Agree with the post about iron, calcium and vitamin C. See what your child's levels are, though, as they typically test iron along with lead since lead poisoning and anemia seem to often go hand in hand. Lucy's hemoglobin was actually really good, so we didn't stress as much about iron as vitamin C and calcium.

Lead is also fat soluble or something like that, so the doc at the emergency room (as fate would have it, a pediatric lead poisoning expert!) stressed the need for a low-fat diet. So, even though she's only 15 months, we switched to low-fat cheeses and have cut down on avocados and french fries. We're still nursing, so whole cow milk wasn't an issue, since she thinks that's weird stuff.

Oh, and I also keep a bottle of chewable vitamin c tablet in my car. They're yummy and she likes to eat them. They're good for car seat fussiness and for keeping a good amount of vitamin c in her! Not sure of the brand... got it at Whole Foods.


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

I strongly disagree with low fat diets for kids. Children need fat for neurological development. It makes no sense to deny a child what he/she needs to develop properly. How is that a safeguard?
It is true that lead bonds with phosphates, but I cited a study earlier in the thread indicating that other types of cleaning are equally effective. Phosphates are terrible for the environment. That being said, powdered Cascade has a higher phosphate concentration than the liquid. Read the labels. You can purchase TSP lead cleaner, trisodium phosphate, at the hardware store.
Vitamin C, Iron, and Calcium are best from food sources, not a factory. Please read the thread, you will find answers to your questions. . . .


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## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

I'm only on page ten of this thread, but has anyone tested their bathtub for lead? Scary article: http://www.original-refinishing.com/main3.html It looks like most lead experts don't think lead poisoning can come from bathtubs, but sometimes it can.


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## richella (Nov 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *QueenOfThePride* 
A contractor told us we just have to scrape it off and paint over it, and it would be fine.

First, have it tested if you have any question about the paint. Most lead paint was exterior paint, not interior, but that doesn't mean everyone who ever lived there followed the directions on the label.

As for scraping and painting, it is supposed to be done by a certified contractor, but the certification is pretty easy to get. You and/or dp could take a one-day class and learn how to do it. The process is pretty involved. You scrape wet, so you don't have dust floating on the air all over the place. There are also procedures for collecting the scrapings onto dropcloths, and proper disposal. The approved paint is a special paint that is supposed to seal in the lead.

I think it would be a bad idea to "just scrape it off and paint over it." That is probably the best way to spread the lead everywhere in your house and insure that dc gets a good dose. It would be better to paint WITHOUT scraping at all.

Congrats on your new house, it sounds exciting.


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## richella (Nov 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *provocativa* 
I strongly disagree with low fat diets for kids. Children need fat for neurological development. It makes no sense to deny a child what he/she needs to develop properly. How is that a safeguard?
It is true that lead bonds with phosphates, but I cited a study earlier in the thread indicating that other types of cleaning are equally effective.

This concerns me too. Fat is so important in early childhood, and I question whether it is best to take long-term recommendations from an emergency MD rather than the family MD who knows dd and her history, etc. THEN I saw that dd's level was 47! I wonder if the MD's opinion was that such a high level is a risk that calls for any means necessary to alleviate it.

But, for people who come here when their dc has a level of 7 or 10, I think it's a completely different story. Withholding fat is probably likely to do more damage than the lead. At a level under 10, (if I'm quoting right) the IQ could be lowered by 3 points. Bfeeding for 6 mos probably gives 3 points over a ffed baby (and fats are probably a big part of why bmilk is so much better than formula). There are so many things attached parents are doing for their dcs that give them way more advantage than 3 pts. I probably destroyed 3 pts worth of brain cells before I was even legal to buy alcohol.

I don't mean to diminish this problem, it is serious, but for dcs who have a level of lead that is elevated, but not high, I think the ways we approach it can and should be very diffeent.


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *richella* 
This concerns me too. Fat is so important in early childhood, and I question whether it is best to take long-term recommendations from an emergency MD rather than the family MD who knows dd and her history, etc. THEN I saw that dd's level was 47! I wonder if the MD's opinion was that such a high level is a risk that calls for any means necessary to alleviate it.

Thanks for this post. The MD, by the way, wasn't an emergency room MD, but the on call pediatrician at the hospital. DD's levels were high enough that we were admitted to the pediatric ward immediately. The doc who was there actually did a lot of work in his early career at Johns Hopkins, which sees an incredibly high level of pediatric lead poisoning (evidently, there's a lot of it in Baltimore). He also was in constant communication with our pediatrician. I agree that children my daughter's age generally shouldn't be on low-fat diets, and now that her level is down to 7, she is on a normal 15-month old diet again. But, as the PP said, a level of 47 is very high, and I didn't think it was anything to mess around with.

Speaking of risk--we did have the risk discussion with our pediatrician and the doc in the hospital before beginning the chelation. Both docs agreed that the risk of the chelation in this case was nominal compared to the risk of letting a child of her age remain with a lead level that high.


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## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

Hi, just a lurker here. Has anyone ever heard of using blue green algae as a cleansing agent for heavy metals? My herbalist brought it up in a discussion on a local on line group I am in. Some of the moms are looking into it for chelation for lead in their little ones. I did a search of this thread and didn't find any mention. There are so many knowledgable mamas here I wondered if anyone had any thoughts on it?

I am concerned about the bathtub. I read the article linked above. I am going to get a lead test kit. Am I right that I can get one a someplace like Home Depot or is there something better?


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

There are two types of lead tests you can get at Home Depot. The one is a vial that you scrape the paint or dust into and then send it off to a lab. These are pretty much the same that my county uses. There are also swabs that you can use to test lead paint. When Lucy's levels came back so high, I went nuts testing everything with these. The benefit of the swabs is that you know immediately--if it turns red or pink, it's lead. I don't know if they'd work on a bathtub though.


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## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

I think with our bathtub, I'm going to fill it with hot water and let it sit for an hour, and then take a water sample and send it in for lead testing. I'm also going to buy a bunch of those swabs from Home Depot and swab everything.


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## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

That is a good idea. I am going to try swabbing it and see. I wonder if I call the health department if they can tell me the best way to tell w/ the tub?

Stacychev--thanks for your info also!


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

the state lead inspector who surveyed our old house said that the problem with the swabs is that they detect lead, but do not tell you how much is there (he said a little was okay, though of course we're all skeevish about any) and he said if the paint on the tub was resonably intact it shouldn't leach. he wouldn't even bother to test it, and he was taking dust samples everywhere. fyi you can buy home kits and seal a bathtub yourself, but the 'refinishing' paint really stinks.


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

oh, and re: algae what i remember is that many sea vegetables are touted for chelation because of their high naturally occuring iodine levels as well as other trace sea minerals (and maybe glutamine as well). so i would imagine algae functions in a superfood way as well. . . .


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## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *provocativa* 
the state lead inspector who surveyed our old house said that the problem with the swabs is that they detect lead, but do not tell you how much is there (he said a little was okay, though of course we're all skeevish about any) and he said if the paint on the tub was resonably intact it shouldn't leach. he wouldn't even bother to test it, and he was taking dust samples everywhere. fyi you can buy home kits and seal a bathtub yourself, but the 'refinishing' paint really stinks.

Hmmm.....Does that mean chips, etc. or just the general wear that occurs w/ the coating? Since the tub is pretty old and the shiny coating is worn away on the porcelain I wonder if that is a problem. Anyway, it sounds like testing the water is the best way to go. Do you know how to find places to test it? Can I find that in the phone book or through the health dept?


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## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *provocativa* 
oh, and re: algae what i remember is that many sea vegetables are touted for chelation because of their high naturally occuring iodine levels as well as other trace sea minerals (and maybe glutamine as well). so i would imagine algae functions in a superfood way as well. . . .

That makes sense. I wonder if anyone here has tried it and seen any changes? The herbalist I know did it for aluminum and had good results as shown by hair tests.

Speaking of hair tests, does anyone know how long you have to wait between tests for changes to show up? I know they aren't recognized in the medical community as being as accurate but sometimes that is due to lack of knowledge rather than concrete information.


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## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bubbles* 
Anyway, it sounds like testing the water is the best way to go. Do you know how to find places to test it? Can I find that in the phone book or through the health dept?

Around here we have a place called the County Extension. They do water and soil testing.


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## counterGOPI (Jan 22, 2005)

soo... i dont have time at the moment to type up the whole story but it ends up our paint ISNT LEAD . neither is our soil.
our water 99% is not lead..but that hasnt been checked just yet...
WHAT THE HECK ELSE COULD HAVE LEAD?!?!
keys...we dont let her play with them.
crib...don't have one
old toys...dont have any only haba and toys from germany.

im at a loss!!!
do magnets have lead maybe? i dont know what it could be!! please help!!!


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## Maman*Musique (May 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *counterGOPI* 
soo... i dont have time at the moment to type up the whole story but it ends up our paint ISNT LEAD . neither is our soil.
our water 99% is not lead..but that hasnt been checked just yet...
WHAT THE HECK ELSE COULD HAVE LEAD?!?!
keys...we dont let her play with them.
crib...don't have one
old toys...dont have any only haba and toys from germany.

im at a loss!!!
do magnets have lead maybe? i dont know what it could be!! please help!!!

Do you have a piece of paper stating that there is no lead? Can you tell us more about how you were told/shown that there is no lead paint or lead in the soil?
I only mention this because the stakes are so high for landlords that some will actually doctor lead inspection results or have a "friend" do the lead testing. Did the state do it?

Antique plates/cups with designs on them can sometimes have lead. Old pipes can have lead. Old furniture could have lead paint on it.


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## counterGOPI (Jan 22, 2005)

we hired our own environmental inspector. dh has the papaers he faxed him... i can post the number later tonight







our landlord wants us to pay for everything now too..$500 for the inspector!!







:

we dont have any old furniture. we have some tea cups from japan that i have used as baby bowls..im not going ot use those anymore,though.


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## counterGOPI (Jan 22, 2005)

hmm i just hthought of something..e have an old wooden swing from the 70's 80's with old paint on it..its not cracking or anything though.. maybe ill run ot home depot to test that just in case htough...


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## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

Has anyone heard of just putting new paneling or wallboard up over lead paint? I read in a pamphlet that this would be considered a permanent fix to lead paint. It seems like the easiest way too. And it wouldn't disturb the paint, making dust. Would all the trim have to come off and be replaced?


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

My mom is sealing in some peeling paint with a type of wallboard. If the trim has lead, something would have to be done. The EPA really does have lots of instructions at epa.gov. Go look, really.
counterGOPI, if the swing's not peeling that's not it. Venetian blinds have lead. Any toys with flexible wire inside. Folk remedies from other countries. . . Bullets and batteries. Cheap toy jewelry. How old is your house?


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## Mama_Michelle (Mar 15, 2006)

I am new to MDC so I have not followed this post...but it brings back a lot of emotion and bad memories. DD1 was 10 mo when we found out her level was 19. We worked with the Dept of Public Health and had our home inspected (built in 1928). We have plenty of lead, especially the windows. None of it was chipping and the windows are never opened, no painted sills or floor boards...so we could not find the source. In our case, it ended up being the underside of the lip on our clawed foot tub. DD1 put her mouth on it twice...at the time I was concerned with household cleaners (although we make most of them naturally).
When I talked to the DPH they said they had never heard of that but after talking with plumbers, they said a lot of clawed foot tubs have lead paint on the bottom. The tub was sandblasted and re-porcelained to remove the lead. I wanted to throw it in the garbage but new ones cost $1000!!!
Do you have a clawed foot tub? Just wanted to throw that out there...hoping our experience can help prevent exposure in other children. I know how frustrating not being able to find the source of your child's lead exposure.


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## bauchtanz (Nov 15, 2005)

My DD just came back with a level of 12. The Dr. and everyone else is like: Don't worry, I am sure it will go away attitude, which is surprising because she is a really good, Dr, and I just don't understand.

The bathroom in our house is all painted wainscoating, and a claw foot rub. Lead central, if you will. A few months ago we atempted to strip the parts that were really bad (like you could not paint over) and re-paint. I am not sure if that made it worse and caused her elavated levels.

Our kitchen also has painted woodwork, and I know it needs to be delt with, tiny flakes are starting to come off. I feel that if I wasn't such a cleaning nazi things could be so much worse. Still - it scares me.

We are having the house tested. Also - I talked to the daycare woman, since DD goes to a daycare in an old home. She says the woodwork was natural and she painted over it (which you can tell). Anyway.

I am really the most upset because I found out from a neighbor that the family that lived her before had children with lead poisening.

AND WE WERE NOT TOLD.

(They also left us with a broken water main.)







:


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## bauchtanz (Nov 15, 2005)

Oh man.

I just found out from the EPA guy that varnish contains lead as well, so this whole myth of " as long as my wood work isn't painted" is a bunch of crap.









I just feel like throwing up everytime I think of this, and I know my DD does not have levels as bad other children.


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## jrayn (Jul 6, 2005)

All varnish has lead or just old fashioned varnish??? Isn't all wood floors covered with varnish?

I answered my own question, the old varnishes had lead as a drying agent, it talks about it at the end of the first section. Which makes me wonder when this lead was removed from the varnish....

http://www.woodworking.com/wwtimes_oilvarnish.cfm

Jennifer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bauchtanz* 
Oh man.

I just found out from the EPA guy that varnish contains lead as well, so this whole myth of " as long as my wood work isn't painted" is a bunch of crap.









I just feel like throwing up everytime I think of this, and I know my DD does not have levels as bad other children.


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## richella (Nov 30, 2004)

The standard floor finish these days is polyurethane. That's been the case for at least 10 years.


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## bauchtanz (Nov 15, 2005)

Unfortunatly, the wood in my home is the original varnish, except for the heavily painted bathroom and kitchen. (The floors are new, I should say)

I have been on the phone to the county health nurse where we used to live. They have vac they let your borrow, test your home for lead for free.

But now we have moved to a new county, and they don't do anything for you. The only thing they do is do a veinous sample, which we are getting on DD tomorrow to see if it is lower.

The irony is the new county we live in has the highest levels of lead in the state, 1 in 7 children have lead poisening. And it sounds like they are not doing much to stop it. I knew more than she did!







:


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## Amila (Apr 4, 2006)

DD is 4 months. We moved into a new home on Halloween. It definitely has some lead paint because I just tested it with those Home Depot tester tubes- it is mostly underneath the paint because it came up in chipped areas of the wall, on window sills, etc. BTW this all started b/c DD ate a tiny paint chip on the carpet (other similar chips tested negative thank god) We are renovating a lot- the entire kitchen has been done already- I popped the tiles off the wall- there was glue underneath, so maybe only small paarts of paint chipped when I dug too deep with the screwdriver-all the wall cabinets and countertops were ripped out- no dust was created from this though. Parts of the wall were cut out and patched. The only sanding that was done was the spackle, and we put a drape up. I am sooo upset! Why didn't I research this sooner? Do you think she could have high levels? Is it too soon to test her?

All of our windows need to be replaced b/c they are old and rotting/the paint is peeling. We were going to wait on this b/c we have no money, but should we do this right away? Our bathroom has tons of lead underneath the paint and we plan on ripping the whole thing out eventuallyo we get the house abated? Please help!!!


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## counterGOPI (Jan 22, 2005)

its not so soon. test her right away!!!!my dd was 1st tested around 5 or 6 months


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## Amila (Apr 4, 2006)

Thank you! I will do that Monday. God I am so sick over this.


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

Amila, honestly, since she is not crawling yet I doubt her exposure is significant. STOP all renovations until you go to www.epa.gov look under lead and read everything. You can seal lead paint in until you can pay a certified contractor, it's the scraping and ripping that are most dangerous. You will need to lead-clean your house immediately. . . . Just be so glad you figured it out before she started crawling! That was lucky! She will be fine!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I am bumping this thread because I just found out that dd2 is lead toxic as well. I knew she was mercury toxic but her lead levels are very high, as are bismuth, cadmium and thallium.

Where on earth is she getting all these toxins?


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## richella (Nov 30, 2004)

Wow, that is awful. I have no clue. What are the MDs recommending?


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

I really feel your pain. It's devastating. Does your other daughter have any toxicity, or just the little one? Have you gotten evaluated by your county health department yet? (Lucy's levels were high enough for them to be legally required to evaluate her environment and it was pretty enlightening."

Good luck.


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## AnoriensMom (Feb 13, 2005)

Annikate, what are your dd's levels?
Because my daughter's were intially 31, we were also contacted by the Dept of Health who came to check our house.
If it is just your youngest dd, then gosh that is scary. Just a few months ago there was a sign up in the ped's office talking about a necklace charm recall. Two young children died from the lead. I can't believe it is still out there in some products.
If it is in your house paint, at least you can fix it or move.
I know this thread is long, but there is a lot of great information (and hope) on these pages.

Let us know what's happening...


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Well, I think I've figured it out.

We knew dd was mercury toxic (vaccinations + me having dental amalgams removed when she was ebf at 3 months old = serious mercury toxicity.)









Turns out, the *regular* environmental toxins that we all get one way or another, she cannot process and remove b/c the mercury messes w/the detox pathways.

So . . . while we probably have some in our immediate environment (we all do, despite the precautions we take), she will suffer more harm than a *normal* child.

We are going to have the water tested asap though.

CAn you buy a kit at Lowe's or Home Depot?


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## texassand (Dec 15, 2006)

We are in the process of buying a house built in 1979. That's cutting it close. Am I safe? If not, what do I need to do? I'm new to all this and my dd is 4 months old - i do not want to move into a place that is hazardous to her.

Thank you!!


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## Laurel723 (Jul 24, 2006)

Oh my am I glad I found this.

I haven't read the whole thread yet, I just found it, and will asap but in the meantime, do you have any suggestions for removing lead dust from carpeting? Removal is not an option ($$$ or rather, a $$$ deficiency (feel free to supplement if you'd like







)

My husband works w/ lead and has not been as careful as he should be-I'm pretty concerned about exactly how badly our house is contaminated...

I'm reading the back posts as well speak, it'll take me a bit to catch up...

Ok-made it to page 5.
?'s-can you use TSP on carpet? How about in a rug doctor?
if not, what can do you use to kill the lead?
DS is 2 mos old-is it too soon to test for Pb levels?

Thank you mamas!!


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## Laurel723 (Jul 24, 2006)

Can I just say exactly how p****d I am that our problem with this is due to laziness and stupidity, and not due to the age of our home, like most everyone else?

I'm so irritated and annoyed right now that I can barely stand myself.

Argh.


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## richella (Nov 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *texassand* 
We are in the process of buying a house built in 1979. That's cutting it close. Am I safe? If not, what do I need to do?

You can have your house inspected by a professional. I believe an appraiser should know how to do it. (Our property is commercial, so it was required for us to get a mortgage, that's how we found out about it. I don't think the testing is as extensive for residential properties, but I think any appraiser would do.)


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## richella (Nov 30, 2004)

Thought everybody here should know about this.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/5/4/161653/5463

lead in vinyl-backed bibs.


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## gardenmom (Apr 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *richella* 
Thought everybody here should know about this.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/5/4/161653/5463

lead in vinyl-backed bibs.


I haven't posted here in a while (and I probably said this before but I think it bears repeating). It's my gut feeling--based only on random things I've read here and there concerning lead contamination in items made from PVC and other vinyl products (baby bibs, lunchboxes, vinyl mini-blinds, garden hose, etc.)--that all vinyl products are suspect when it comes to lead. I firmly believe that in 20 years we'll find out just how much lead is in those vinyl windows that everyone is using to replace their 'dangerous' painted wood windows, as the vinyl breaks down and begins to release tiny particles of dust into the air each time windows open and close. Not to mention that pvc is now allowed to be used for water supply pipes in many localities.

sigh


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## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gardenmom* 
I haven't posted here in a while (and I probably said this before but I think it bears repeating). It's my gut feeling--based only on random things I've read here and there concerning lead contamination in items made from PVC and other vinyl products (baby bibs, lunchboxes, vinyl mini-blinds, garden hose, etc.)--that all vinyl products are suspect when it comes to lead. I firmly believe that in 20 years we'll find out just how much lead is in those vinyl windows that everyone is using to replace their 'dangerous' painted wood windows, as the vinyl breaks down and begins to release tiny particles of dust into the air each time windows open and close. Not to mention that pvc is now allowed to be used for water supply pipes in many localities.

sigh


Yikes. I never even thought about the windows. I didn't really like the idea of them just because of the plastic, but now it is potentially even worse. We decided we couldn't spend the money on all wood interior replacement windows but if I had known about this I would have figured out how. Fortunately we did do wood for our slding glass doors which we touch much more often.


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## counterGOPI (Jan 22, 2005)

hey mamas i havent posted in a long time either...
out dr is retesting dd in spetember when she turnes 2. a few months ago she was retested and she only went down 2 points


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## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *counterGOPI* 
hey mamas i havent posted in a long time either...
out dr is retesting dd in spetember when she turnes 2. a few months ago she was retested and she only went down 2 points









I know the bathtub issue has come up but most don't seem to agree it is a probem. Could that be a possibility in your situation? There are some cases where they couldn't get the levels down and then found the tub and sink wre the problem. Just a thought. Good luck and I hope you get better results soon.


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## counterGOPI (Jan 22, 2005)

i honestly cant remember if i tested that now







: im going to have to try that one again in case i missed it the 1st time around


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## emma_goldman (May 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gardenmom* 
I haven't posted here in a while (and I probably said this before but I think it bears repeating). It's my gut feeling--based only on random things I've read here and there concerning lead contamination in items made from PVC and other vinyl products (baby bibs, lunchboxes, vinyl mini-blinds, garden hose, etc.)--that all vinyl products are suspect when it comes to lead. I firmly believe that in 20 years we'll find out just how much lead is in those vinyl windows that everyone is using to replace their 'dangerous' painted wood windows, as the vinyl breaks down and begins to release tiny particles of dust into the air each time windows open and close. Not to mention that pvc is now allowed to be used for water supply pipes in many localities.

sigh

And rubber duckies! Yuck. My kid has been sucking on them while in the bath...


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## counterGOPI (Jan 22, 2005)

do you mena the fake ruber duckies made of plastic or real rubber duckies? we got a rubber duckie from magic cabin made from rubber trees.....


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## AnoriensMom (Feb 13, 2005)

Has anyone else noticed a correlation between sleep disturbances and their high-lead babies?

We haven't tested in a while, but DD should be down nearly to zero now (started at a level of 31 at 1 year). She is 3 1/2 now and is still a horrible sleeper. I figured she would calm down by this age. And there are many nights where I lay in bed and wonder if the lead messed up her melatonin levels. It could just be her temperment too.

How is everyone else doing?


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

We definitely had the sleep issues too, and kept dd1 in the bed with us (and dd2) because of her night waking. It seems to be over, now, though, and she turns four in a month. Have you tried GABA? Hyland's calms forte help my daughter a lot. I haven't found a cal/mag for kids that I like- mine helps me sleep and stay asleep. I'm thinking of buying the liquid made by the Floradix folks for her and see how it does. My daughter also had febrile waking seizures well into toddlerhood, I think I remember yours did too. Seems like GABA would have helped with those, but I hadn't heard of it back then. . . .waking baby. . . .


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## richella (Nov 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bubbles* 
Yikes. I never even thought about the windows. I didn't really like the idea of them just because of the plastic, but now it is potentially even worse.

Vinyl also outgasses chlorine gas.

Dd's level never went over 8, so I don't expect noticeable effects, but she did have some sleep issues. I think it was worst after the lead started to fall. I think she had some night terrors and restless legs. Restless legs have been associated with low iron, though when her iron was tested it was fine. She still bfeeds, though, and I'm pg and my iron has been low, so maybe hers is lower than I think.

Anyway, she is sleeping pretty well these days. Getting her down is pretty labor intensive, but I don't think she's out of the normal range.


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## MiriamJoyce (Jun 6, 2007)

Hey all. I've spent most of the day reading this thread, and it's very informative. Wish, of course, that I didn't need it. My daughter's level came in at 18. I'm guessing it's our porch (though we don't wear shoes in the house), window wells, and the results of taking some wallpaper down that had paint behind it when we bought the house. But it could have been my husband's work (recently started doing renovation work) or who knows what else. Love my new HEPA vacuum, trying not to feel too overwhelming guilty.

As I am a writer, I figured I should put all my research to use and am going to be writing an article on the experience. I'd love to include some insights from any of you who would want to share (would prefer real names, or at least a first name and city).

Things I'm particularly curious to hear about:
Mixed messages. The doctor says not to worry, it's borderline, they'll test again. The county health dept says "It's lead poisoning! It's bad!" but it's not high enough for us to help you with, and our main recommendations are 'don't let your kid eat paint chips.' Have you encountered stuff like this, or others?
What was it like wading through the different information--which vacuums are OK and which aren't? Do you need TSP or not? Is daily cilantro good or bad? It's hard to find good sources. Where have you turned for reliable information? How well-educated have you found key people--doctors, gov't ppl, contractors, etc--to be?
Where do you draw your lines about trying to avoid lead? There's lead in the perfectly intact _exterior_ glaze of our Le Creuset honey pot. Even in the midst of my panic, I'm not sure if I ought to toss it.
Has anyone tried to do lead abatement without getting rid of their old windows? (i.e. stripping with a chemical stripper)
What else might defy conventional wisdom about lead and elevated BLLs that you would want to share?


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## WaturMama (Oct 6, 2006)

We got ourselves in a bad a situation with a rental, where we didn't notice the peeling paint until our lease started and the landlord/owners stuff was moved out. I've posted some about that here: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=707372, and had some helpful answers. I have a few more questions and thought this might be a good place for it as a lot of you with experience might be subbing this thread. I have read a lot of this thread, but haven't made it through all. I apologize in advance for repeats and am fine to be directed to the approximate page of an answer.

Briefly, the inside has some areas that test low in lead, we're pretty sure we contain those. The outside has many areas in the eaves that are peeling heavily that test high for lead. (The siding tests negative.) We intend to contain the worst of these, especially near the high traffic areas. The landlord will only pay $750 total for all this. We expect to have to pay for some of this. The door jams to the outside tested positive to lead. We want to patch chipping paint there and have the doors repaired so they don't stick.

I feel like with all that we contain most of the problem, but the existing chips in the dirt is what worries me. Especially with a 2y4mo ds that loves playing outside and sometimes sticks his hands in his mouth, 2 furry dogs that sometimes lay down and roll in the grass, and me wanting to get pregnant again.

My questions:

* What have other people with dogs done? Would brushing them outside (me wearing a mask) help? Are they at risk of lead injury?

* Is there any way to get this stuff out of the dirt? We are thinking we could re-sod the backyard. I wonder how expensive it is. I doubt the landlord will pay for it.

* Can you tell me more about blood tests or direct me somewhere with good info? We're thinking of having myself and ds tested at the time we move in and again after some interval. If we saw an increase would that mean we are getting more lead exposure or are there normal fluctuations? Would we have to do the venous test for this to be meaningful?

Dh is more comfortable with this than I am. To break our lease would be a huge financial risk for us as we live in an expensive area and have signed a 12 month lease. I'm wanting to make some agreement with him before we go ahead with the work and moving ourselves in, like if ds or I have an increase above x amount in y months, we leave. Any thoughts about that, or would something else make sense?

Thanks so much for all your postings, sorry to be benefitting from wisdom earned through such hard times. Glad to hear of so many getting better.


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

I am joining in here, unfortunately. DD's lead level was 13.1 last october. She is a horrible sleeper, hyperactive (not normal toddler behavior!) and is a poor eater. We found where the lead was coming from. Its an outside source. We stopped wearing shoes inside, and I got a dyson vacuum that picks up lead. At her 18 month appt, her lead level was down to 6. She started sleeping a bit better around that time, too.

We never had people officially come to inspect our home for lead. We didn't want it on "record". We know there is no lead inside. It was fully remodeled years ago. (originally built in the 1800's.)


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## AMum (Nov 30, 2001)

WaturMama ~ you may already know this, but the paint chips aren't the only problem. Its the dust ma'am, the dust!!! Exposure to the amount of lead that will fit on the tip of a ballpoint pen for a 15 day period will increase a child's LBL (lead blood level) to 10







We're dealing with a huge lead abatement hassle at the moment. Our city stinks, the tail wags the dog, one hand doesn't know what the other is doing et al. It's enough to make us







:

I can't believe your landlord wouldn't be responsible for a *lot* more if not *all* of the repairs. I'd check into that. In our city if your child tests over 10 your doc is required to report that to the city and they get involved wether you like it or not. And I'm certain that a landlord is required to abate the lead and that said landlord can receive/request help from the city's abatement program. It's been a huge hassle, but I'm glad we know.

Lila's all time high LBL was 28, it is down to 12 now and she's due to be retested this month.

Oh, and resoding is great b/c it covers the lead paint & dust, but if there is still a source of dust & paint chips then you're putting the cart before the horse. I know because we've done just that. We laid sod even though we still have to eradicate the paint on our carriage house wall. The carriage house spans the entire back yard and is covered in flaking lead paint. Why did we go ahead and sod you ask? To check off one more thing on the infernal list the city gave us and has been on our backs about ever since. Our entire abatement project has gone from having anything to do with the health and well being of our child to being about the almight list. So, so incredibly frustrating to be dealing with beaurecrats. *sigh*


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## AMum (Nov 30, 2001)

GooeyRN, can you tell me more about your Dyson? When I checked into vacuums the only vacuum I found to reliably remove lead dust was the Nilfisk family vac, so that is what we bought. The problem with most uprights is that even though they claim to be hepa, not all of the air is directed through the hepa filter. We owned an Oreck Hepa that was only 2 years old and I sold it and bought the Nilfisk for that reason.

TIA,

Ashlea


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AMum* 
GooeyRN, can you tell me more about your Dyson? When I checked into vacuums the only vacuum I found to reliably remove lead dust was the Nilfisk family vac, so that is what we bought. The problem with most uprights is that even though they claim to be hepa, not all of the air is directed through the hepa filter. We owned an Oreck Hepa that was only 2 years old and I sold it and bought the Nilfisk for that reason.

TIA,

Ashlea

Its the DC15 model. It is obviously working to remove lead, since dd's lead level dropped so much after using it for only 3 months. (dd was being checked every 3 months)


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## AMum (Nov 30, 2001)

Well, that's good to know. I love my Nilfisk, but the Dyson is more readily available, I'd imagine. We live in the city, so run into other lead abatement families, good to have another vacuum to recommend, kwim?


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

I believe there is a federal law regarding landlords and lead paint, requiring that they notify you in writing before you move in of the lead paint. . . . so I believe the landlord will be responsible for the repairs. Get clicking over at epa.gov, and there is a toll free number with info. We have never sued the old landlord. . . . but we probably need to, considering we can't afford an expensive vacuum.

I want to proceed with further natural chelation methods, since I no longer believe that blood lead level is the only marker of metal toxicity. Our kids have it stored in their organs and bones. . . . there was another article in the paper today about childhood lead levels and adult violence and I have spent all morning crying, again. I am a writer, too, and MiriamJoyce's rather glib info-fishing post really got under my skin. Such things are too painful for me to write about in the moment.


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## WaturMama (Oct 6, 2006)

Thanks very much for the response AMum and provocativa. From our research landlords/owners are required to notify tenants about lead in pre-1978 built houses, whether it is known or unknown. But there is no teeth behind this law. If they don't all that can happen is the EPA can bug them to supply you with info, but not require them to abate. So, argh.


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## Acugirl (Jan 1, 2003)

While I am so glad to find this tread, I am horrified to be here.
We bought an old house in MA 2 yrs ago. Did we think there might be lead? Sure. Did we do anything about it? No.

I have a 4.5 yr old dd and a 1 yr old.
My dd was tested at 3, 6 months after we moved in and was within normal limits.
I thought "great, no lead and promptly forgot about it.
UNTIL, my ds who is now 1 was tested last week and came back at 14.
Now I am in total freak out mode. A lead detector guy was here all morning and there is lead paint everywhere including our front porches where the paint is clearly chipping.
I feel absolutely sick and dh is making as if it is no big deal at all.
We cannot just move out.
MOst of the paint is in fine condition and we do not open the windows.
Right now I am focusing on just preventing further lead exposure as much as possible, but I don't even know the first place to begin!

I am also anxiously awaiting my dd's results and am terrified what they will be. She SITS on that porch all the time. What the heck is wrong with me/ I feel like the most irresponsible parent in the world.
As sad as it is, I am glad my ds was "only 14" it could be a lot worse considering the exposure potential in this house.

Anyway, if anyone has any advice or just a huge hug I could use it!
THanks.


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## nannyboo (Jan 8, 2007)

i have a quick question about lead levels: is there such a thing as a ZERO? or does everyone have some lead in their bodies? (from air pollution, etc.)


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nannyboo* 
i have a quick question about lead levels: is there such a thing as a ZERO? or does everyone have some lead in their bodies? (from air pollution, etc.)

Good question. When Lucy was diagnosed, her lead was high enough that she was admitted to the hospital immediately. The pediatrician on staff that night had actually done extensive work in inner city Baltimore, which evidently has a very high rate of lead poisoning, so he was kind of a lead expert. (Lucky us, I guess.) Anyway, I asked him the same question. His response was, "Well, no amount of lead is 'normal' for a person to have in their body. That being said, this is New Jersey, which is a very toxic state. We generally don't see kids with zero lead levels, so we consider 3 to 6 to be normal." She's down to a level of 7 now, with a high of 47 last summer.


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## emma_goldman (May 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Acugirl* 
Anyway, if anyone has any advice or just a huge hug I could use it!
THanks.

Here is a huge hug.

You'll want to read the whole thread but here are the nuggets:

implement shoes off in the house. Wash hands before eating anything or when coming in from playing outside or after playing on the floor (it is in the dirt around the house). Get ahold of a nilfisk (or Dyson -see above posts) vacuum. High protein diet. Lots of cilantro will help get it out of the body. Highest absorbability is from breathing dust as opposed to eating lead contaminated stuff or absorbing through skin contact, or probably even drinking it. Go out on the porch with a few buckets and/or spray bottle and clean it top to bottom. Get everything wet a couple of times. Use detergent (it binds with the lead). Bag up the rags you used (do not run them in your washing machine as this will contaminate clothing, dipes, etc.). Put new sod down in the yard and put wood chips or rocks around the house immediately. Spray these down every once in awhile. Keep walkways to the doorways clean. Wipe floors down every day.

What else am I missing, mamas?


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *emma_goldman* 
implement shoes off in the house. Wash hands before eating anything or when coming in from playing outside or after playing on the floor (it is in the dirt around the house). Get ahold of a nilfisk (or Dyson -see above posts) vacuum. High protein diet. Lots of cilantro will help get it out of the body. Highest absorbability is from breathing dust as opposed to eating lead contaminated stuff or absorbing through skin contact, or probably even drinking it. Go out on the porch with a few buckets and/or spray bottle and clean it top to bottom. Get everything wet a couple of times. Use detergent (it binds with the lead). Bag up the rags you used (do not run them in your washing machine as this will contaminate clothing, dipes, etc.). Put new sod down in the yard and put wood chips or rocks around the house immediately. Spray these down every once in awhile. Keep walkways to the doorways clean. Wipe floors down every day.

What else am I missing, mamas?

Yes to all of this. Also, make sure your child's diet is high in calcium, vitamin C, and iron. Keep an eye open for hidden sources of lead, like vinyl mini blinds. Wash your child's hands _constantly!_ Have a shoes-off house.


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## Mama_Michelle (Mar 15, 2006)

Acugirl,







.
I understand feeling like an irresponsible parent. That is how I felt (still feel) when our DD1 had elevated lead levels three years ago. It was so overwhelming to have the Dept of Pub Health come into our house and tell us where all the lead is/was. I hope your DDs lead level comes back low.

I agree with pps about keeping the dust to a minumum and cleaning often.
Hugs,
Michelle


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

:

That is so true! Having the health dept come in and interview me, and take samples from around the house. And then, my pediatrician was required by law to report all blood tests until her levels were in an acceptable range and they closed our case... very overwhelming, and really made me feel like such a shmuck.


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## richella (Nov 30, 2004)

Took Rowan for her wbv and got a blood draw. She is 32 mos now and we explained what was going to happen. Fortunately it was the good nurse, not the guy who couldn't get it last time after multiple sticks. Dh held her on his lap (dd, not the nurse) and I couldn't be there but I was watching from around the corner. Well, she didn't even cry. After it was over though she let out a wail, but for just a couple seconds. Haven't got the result back yet.

You mamas who have had your dc in the hospital, etc --I feel for you so much!


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## MiriamJoyce (Jun 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *provocativa* 
I am a writer, too, and MiriamJoyce's rather glib info-fishing post really got under my skin. Such things are too painful for me to write about in the moment.

Hey, apologies. Looking back it does look rather glib, but I didn't mean it to. I think I was trying to hold myself distant from my own pain--I've certainly cried hours over this too. This is one of the few honest forums discussing the topic I've found and I very much appreciate it. I should have at least acknowledged that I know many people may not be up for rehashing the details and that I totally respect all the incredible work we are all putting in on this. (And, I've realized as I've been going through it, I shouldn't have taken an assignment on this topic while the experience was so fresh.) Anyhow, sorry 'bout that.


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## oregongirlie (Mar 14, 2006)

Hey All,
My 9 month old came in at a 7 last week. He was a 2 at 6 months. We're testing every 3 months because this house is "hot". If it goes up much more, I want to move. DH doesn't want to move out of our charming old toxic neighborhood. I know it's a "normal" level but it wouldn't be that high if we didn't live in this house. If we were in the 'burbs, I'm sure it would be a 0 or 1 or "less than 2". We can't afford to take care of the problem here (total paint failure outside, peeling and dropping into our yard)d, but we can afford to move.

Why don't more people make a bigger deal of this?
Why does everyone think I'm crazy?


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## emma_goldman (May 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *oregongirlie* 
Why don't more people make a bigger deal of this?
Why does everyone think I'm crazy?

hugs for you. I know. My DP thought I was absolutely nuts. he worried more about when I was going to stop breastfeeding (like THAT's gonna happen!)!


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *oregongirlie* 
Why don't more people make a bigger deal of this?
Why does everyone think I'm crazy?

Please don't flame me, because I don't take issues of race lightly (I'm a white woman, and constantly struggle with my assumptions). Anyway, I think the answer to your questions is that mainstream American culture thinks that lead poisoning is something that happens to poverty-stricken inner city African American kids (make it the 1970's instead of today, and it's even more believable). Anyway, I dealt with surprise from the health department and family and friends that it was happening to us, a suburban white middle class family.









FWIW, I'm thrilled that my daughter is at the level yours is now! That being said, I'd be more concerned, if I was in your shoes, that her level was going up.


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## DandeCobb (Jul 20, 2006)

stacey, i have been following your eloquent posts on another thread about lead-i like you! and yes i can tell you the state of kentucky had NO idea what to do with my middle class white lead poisoned baby, child of nurse mama! i think there latest plan is to ignore us, which is okay with me. I got the report of lead in our home a few months ago and it said we had to respond with our plan of action with in 60 days so i made a report outlining how we had addressed the lead (ChildGaurd paint and lots of wet mopping mostly, oh and we replaced the flooring in 3 rooms) that was 7 weeks ago and i have heard nothing, they are supposed to come and re-test the house. Frankly, as long as his levels comtinue to decrease i would prefer that they not. I am sure i probably missed something that he is unable to reach. we had a spike 2 months ago, his level was 9 and went up to 14, but it is down to 13 at his last test. about every other month we test i have had to fight with the lab people who want to do a fingerprick 'no, that is really considered more of a screening, ect, ect' last time i told the tech that and she said 'well......i've never heard that!" 'well, now you have







: ' was what i wanted to say!


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## pumpkingirl71 (Jul 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Acugirl* 
While I am so glad to find this tread, I am horrified to be here.
We bought an old house in MA 2 yrs ago. Did we think there might be lead? Sure. Did we do anything about it? No....

Anyway, if anyone has any advice or just a huge hug I could use it!
THanks.











I live in MA too. Lead is inescapable here. Please try not to feel that this is your fault. The mixed messages are everywhere. Everyone says that lead is everywhere, the law says you have to remove it, but then people tell you to relax. We started lead abatement because we are landlords (a two family we live in) and because we were pursuing adoption. We know we might squeak by on the adoption with lead, but we also knew that it could stop the adoption in it's tracks if they found clear hazards and asked for in inspection. So we decided to remove it before our home study. Everyone thought we were crazy. Then ds's lead test came back high. Thankfully, we were on a waiting list for a contractor, so we got the paint out soon and ds's number came down.

Did ASAP do your inspection? They are really good about helping you find funding. We used a program called Get the Lead Out. We recieved $25,000 in a no interest loan. It was more paperwork than adopting our daughter, but the loan does not become payable until we sell our home.


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## pumpkingirl71 (Jul 12, 2005)

Here is the link for Get the Lead Out:

https://www.masshousing.com/portal/s...=2&cached=true

It looks like they have changed the requirements some.


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## cycle (Nov 18, 2004)

I have read through most of the posts - and thank you all for such valuable information.

DS & I moved into a house on July 1, an old house. The lead paint has been completely covered inside the house - I'm not worried about anything inside.

However a couple of weeks after we moved in they started the process of painting the outside, which included sanding the paint off to the bare wood. I was told by the landlord that it was being cleaned up and I did see the guys cleaning up at the end of the day. We are the first floor flat of a three story house and we come in through the front door, walking onto the porch which was sanded and painted. Though during the process we used the back door. The porch is now painted with the exception of the floor, it was not sanded or painted. I was fairly naive about lead issues until recently when I talked to my landlord about it. I asked if the porch had been cleaned properly to remove the lead, he said it had been swept and cleaned off with water. That day they then cleaned it again, I will be cleaning it tomorrow with the dishwasher detergent using the methods described here.

Until recently I haven't been as diligent as I should have been, because of ignorance. DS was tested between 12-18 months and his level was 0. I called the Dr. about this and they didn't seem overly concerned, said that he was old enough to process it better than an infant, and he would need to be putting lead dust covered things into his mouth in order to be exposed. Luckily I am pretty diligent about washing hands, but have become more diligent. I clean window sills regularly and we have become a no shoe house. I don't let ds play on the porch and he doesn't play in front of the house too much. I am going to call the Dr tomorrow and request a lead blood test though, which they told me they would do at my request.

I am hoping some of you can answer these questions;

1. How long before lead exposure will show up in a blood test?
2. How old were you dc's when they were exposed?
3. Is lead dust hazardous by inhaling it or only by getting it into you mouth?
4. Do older toddlers (ds will be 3 in Dec) really "process" lead better so they are less likely to get lead poisoning?

Thank you so much for all of this great info. I am going to get the ingredients today for the cilantro pesto just to be on the safe side.


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

1- I don't know how long it takes for lead to show up in a blood test, but I think it appears rapidly. 2-birth to 18 months 3-inhaling lead is more toxic 4-three year olds do mouth stuff less than babies, so they ingest less. I would suppose that your doctor is referring to metallothionen production, I do not know at what age a child begins to synthesize it adequately. Some kids don't metabolize any metals well, hence the mercury and autism connection.


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## Plummeting (Dec 2, 2004)

I just wanted to post the article about this study on cleaning lead dust without high phosphate cleaners, for those who are interested:

http://www.physorg.com/news9091.html

Quote:

The researchers, led by Roger D. Lewis, Ph.D., CIH, of the Saint Louis University School of Public Health, tested how well various detergents removed lead from three common household surfaces: vinyl flooring, wood and wallpaper. They determined that all-purpose floor detergents containing no phosphate did just as well as a more expensive lead-specific product and trisodium phosphate (TSP), a less environmentally friendly substance. Lead-specific cleaners or TSP have long been recommended for lead removal.
I think this is really a case where officials and "experts" are just being dogmatic. They were always told that you needed a high phosphate cleaner, so they're going to keep repeating it, no matter what. Kind of like how so many pediatricians insist that _all_ bf babies need iron and vitamin D supplements, regardless of how much evidence proves that they are wrong.


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## richella (Nov 30, 2004)

What I read about age and lead was that babies absorb it at a high level, while adults absorb much less. Don't know when it changes, though.

I was told by an EPA person that TSP bonds to lead, making it neutral to humans. Not that it cleans it from a surface any more thoroughly, but it adds another form of protection from the lead, wherever it is (including in the water you use to clean with).

Well, here we go again. Dd's level was 7.4 at 1 yr, 6 something at 18 mos, and we got to the 2 yr appt. late (32 mos) and now it's 14. I feel so awful. I have been slack on the cleaning. I can't believe we didn't take her in sooner. What is wrong with me?

Now I'm wondering if dd's behavior is showing signs. We have a 3 mo baby and I have been limiting nursing for dd1, and I assumed her tantrums and days of constant whining were about those issues. Now I wonder if lead explains all the times she says she's sad, but doesn't know why. Today she woke in the middle of her nap and cried and said, "no, no, no . . ." and I said, "what are you saying no to?" and she said, "I don't know." Everyone says this is all just normal 2 yo stuff. ?????

Well, I'm sure the HD will answer all our questions for us. . . .


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## richella (Nov 30, 2004)

What about silver plate utensils that have the silver worn off? Do those have lead in the core?

I'm freaking out. Everywhere I look I see stuff that I'm afraid the HD person who comes to visit will think is bad. (mostly not lead related) I don't know how I can keep the house cleaner than I do. I know other people do, I just don't think I can.


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

I wouldn't count on the health dept. to answer all questions, the ladies here certainly weren't up on all their training. I am a terrible housekeeper too, though better than when the nightmare started, if I was going to get the house clean, the kids would have to be chained to the tv, or something equally horrific. As for your dd's symptoms, that is the bitch of this syndrome- it exacerbates some normal conditions (violence, lack of impulse control, sleep disturbances). . . . my mom will say point blank that she sees no effect of the lead on dd1 (now 4), but then she says that she can't take her anywhere because of bolting away and other such impulse control issues. Arrrgh! WTF, ya think the two things might be related? Nah! Anyhoo, in this day and age your dd's level could also have gone up from a toy. TSP does bond to lead (as does the phosphate in dish detergent) but I have also read that dishwasher detergent is usually the most toxic thing in yer average household. . . so tsp (being trisodium phosphate) would be even more toxic. I feel like there would be residue left inside my house. . . . but I also feel like scrubbing the outside sidewalks with it, though I know it's so bad for the environment. My neighbors would surely enjoy watching me scrub the sidewalk. . .


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## richella (Nov 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *provocativa* 
I wouldn't count on the health dept. to answer all questions, the ladies here certainly weren't up on all their training.

Oh, that was a bit of sarcasm that didn't read on the screen.









We live in a county that has 1/3 the population it had 100 yrs ago. So I think about 80% of the houses are pre-1977, but it seems like we're the only ones who have this problem. The HD nurse talked to dh and referred to one case she had seen some time ago. The Parents as Teachers educator thought it was rare. I can't see how every kid in the school district doesn't have it. I just want to ask, why us?

Baby fussing, gotta go.


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## counterGOPI (Jan 22, 2005)

well ladies. dd goes in for her latest lead test on monday.. lets hope it went down a lot!!!


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## leila1213 (Sep 15, 2006)

Hi ladies! I have just finished reading through the ENTIRE thread and want to thank you all for sharing such valuable information.

My dd is 14.5 mos and had a heel stick done at her 12 mo appt. I just found out the result last week, which was a 9. Her 15 mo appt is scheduled for 10/5 and I have requested a venous draw. I am considering having them give me a lab order to have it done sooner. If I go in to the office to have it done, they will charge me for an office visit.

Our house was built in 1925 and we repainted most of it before we moved in. The bathroom was under construction from before DD was born till she was about 4 months old. Then a few months later we demo'ed a decrepit garage in the backyard. We had never spent much time out there, but with the summer, we got a little pool that DD loves to play in. The whole outside of the house has peeling paint and cracked stucco. We also have a dog that tracks in dirt and DH is bad about that too. There are also some plastic blinds, which may be vinyl, and those cheap roll-up shades that could be vinyl.

Also, DD spends 1 day a week at my parents' house (where I grew up), which is from 1918. I mentioned my concerns to my mom, and she thought the cleaning recommendations were crazy. (She didn't even think I should have the test done!) She said those were for people with bad hygiene and we keep our house clean (what?). She thinks it's coming from the water. We use a water filter, but they don't - which is crazy. They used to SELL water filters, and even tested people's water to convince them to buy them. But they never tested theirs! And, their house is filled with dust and peeling/chipping paint!

Where to begin??!! It's so overwhelming. I work FT (4 day week), and most of the cleaning is done by our nanny when she is here Mon-Wed. She mops, but not to the specs mentioned here. I don't know what to do first. Buy test strips? Get the blood draw? Test the water? Clean the floors? Thanks in advance for your help!


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## emma_goldman (May 18, 2005)

PM me if there is anyone that wants some TSP. I have a whole box I'm not going to use.


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## sbgrace (Sep 22, 2004)

My son is going to be tested for lead at his next blood draw. His iron isn't coming up and he had some other things that could be lead related I guess.
My question is about blinds. About two years ago I purchased black out roller shades at walmart. They are in the boy's rooms. Do I need to take them down--how unsafe are they likely? Any reliable way to test them to see?
Is regular old stainless steel silverware and pots likely ok or do I need to rethink everything?


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

I never heard of a concern with roller-shades, just mini-blinds.


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## richella (Nov 30, 2004)

Personally, I wouldn't trust anything vinyl from WalMart. Once they got caught with vinyl-backed baby bibs. It was only discovered by a customer, and they only recalled them in IL where the law required it. (They took them off the shelves elsewhere but no recall.)

counterGOPI --when do you get the results back?


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## nicoley73 (May 21, 2005)

Hi. I'm here with a few questions because we just bought a 1920's house. I have a 5 month old and a 2.5 year old. We will need to do some repairs, as well as a kitchen renovation. Some of the windows have peeling paint. None of the windows open. I'm trying to find someone to come and test, but it does not seem to be done much here (Alabama).

I'm going with the assumption that there is lead. I am planning on repainting the windows, following the EPA guidelines, as well as any other areas with disturbed paint. Luckily we have 3.5 months to work on the house before we move in.

Questions - is there any value to the DIY lead testers?

Does any one have any advice who has repainted/finished windows, etc?

I plan on having my kids' levels monitored closely after we move in.

I'm freaking out a little but no one here seems to be concerned...


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

Hi Nicole,

I totally think there's value to the lead testers. We test everything in our ca. 1890 Victorian house! Wherever we find lead paint peeking through, DH paints over it with a healthy coat of latex.

We also had time to work on our house. In fact, renovations were in progress when Lu got lead poisoning from my mom's mid-20th century house! Goes to show you it can come from many places. But, we chose to postpone our move-in date even further, and we did rip a lot of the moulding off from around the windows because we just didn't want to get into mitigation. We're in the process of stripping all of the sashes (off site). Ones that aren't stripped yet are just monitored--we use a vacuum with a HEPA filter.

When you say "no one here seems to be concerned..." do you mean here, as in where you are, or here, as in MDC? If you're talking about where you are, my experience is that people have an "it won't happen here/to me/to my kids/to kids I know" attitude. People were (and still are) really shocked when I tell them about Lucy's lead poisoning. I'm very vocal about it (I tell our peds that I'm the poster-mom for lead poisoning) because there was nothing about our lives or our situation that screamed "lead"--in fact, I just got to see the questionnaire that I filled out at her 1 YO appt--we were classified as low risk!! I'm so glad we took the test anyway.

If I were you, I'd get the kids tested now, and then again a month or two after you move in to see if anything changes. But remember, it doesn't have to be a chronic poisoning. Lucy's lead poisoning was really high, and we think it was from one incident.

ETA: Sorry if this is barely coherent. I had my super-long teaching day today and I'm exhausted.


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## nicoley73 (May 21, 2005)

Thanks for the response. I will pick up some of the lead testers next time I'm out. I am going to get the kids tested to monitor their levels and we'll just be really careful with the renos.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *staceychev* 
When you say "no one here seems to be concerned..." do you mean here, as in where you are, or here, as in MDC?

I meant here, Alabama. Like I said, it's hard to find someone to even come test. But I think I may forgo the official testing, test myself, and when in doubt, assume that there's lead and act accordingly.


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

the lead guy from the state env. dept. here told me that the difficulty with home lead testers is that they detect the presence of lead, but they do not tell you the amount. i guess he thought that a little bit was okay, not that any of us would agree.


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## counterGOPI (Jan 22, 2005)

got my test results back today shes down to a 4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!









im still gonna check her every year while we live here though


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *counterGOPI* 
got my test results back today shes down to a 4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!









im still gonna check her every year while we live here though









Thats great!!!


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## richella (Nov 30, 2004)

Yay for counterGOPI!

Dh talked to the health ins. people today. I didn't know they would put a case worker on us who will monitor what's happening. They want new tests every 3 mos until 2 come under 10. And she asked a lot of questions about diet and do we have enough food in the house (?) and offered to help w/WIC. Dh asked her if we could get natural unprocessed food through them (he knew we couldn't, we already looked at the list







) and she suggested a church-based org. that has cheap boxes of mostly meat every month. (We are about 95% veg.) Well, I'm cautiously optimistic and also pretty anxious about being in the system. Gives me a headache to think about it.


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## richella (Nov 30, 2004)

A mini-rant. I'll start off by saying that MIL is really great, I do love her, but she gave the kids in church today a sweet little bell that was made out a former LAND MINE. wtf?????? Afterwards I had to ask, um, is there any reason to assume that this doesn't have any lead in it? And she was smart enough to see right away that, no there is no reason to assume it's safe!!!!!! If she can't do that for herself, I just wish she would clear stuff with me BEFORE she gives it to dd! Apparently I am the only one in the family agonizing over this issue, everyone else is like, yes, the borrowed vacuum spews less dust, that is nice, and less lead, oh yeah, that too. It's nice that the house is cleaner, and less lead, oh yeah, that too. And I'm hating myself yelling at dd every 5 minutes, don't put your foot on the baby's face, let me clean your nails, don't put toys in your mouth dust is bad. Dirt is bad. You have lead in your blood, this is why you have to go to the doctor and get poked again.


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## 4lilfarmers (Feb 9, 2006)

hi all...i'm slowly making my way through this thread...and i'm learning a lot. my ds had a lead level of 21 at 20 months. when our house was tested, it turns out that one of our windows had an extremely high lead level and he happened to play at that one the summer before (about four months earlier). it sickens me to think what his level was then.

three months after that it was down to 9. a year later it's 5. i wish it could be lower.

anyway. i'm learning a lot...and i'm so sad hearing about the possible affects it will have on ds later.

now i have a new little one and i hate to think about him crawling around this house (although i'm trying to keep the spots he'll touch encapulated)


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## richella (Nov 30, 2004)

Got another test today. MD said she tests all her patients, but only sees this level (14) about 2x/yr. One time the family finally found out that there was a spot in the yard that was really high, and there were batteries buried there. Their babe was only about 1 yr, not even playing in the yard, but there was enough being tracked in to contaminate the baby.

(Then she had to leave before answering my questions because she got the page telling her that her repeat C/s patient was prepped.


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## leila1213 (Sep 15, 2006)

DD was a 9 at her 12 month appt, so I intended on getting a venous sample at her 15 month for a more accurate reading. Well, the woman who does them wasn't there. So we went back a few days later (30 min drive) and I held down my poor precious girl. Twice. And she couldn't get a vein. So we went to a pediatric Quest location this morning. She screamed harder each time she stuck her, and again we could not get the sample.

I do NOT want to put her through that again needlessly. Can I just order the hair test and be done with it? Do the results come with guidelines on interpreting them? The hair test shows the amounts that have built up in the body, right? So, will I need to test again later to see if she is still being exposed? (That would make sense I guess.) Thanks for any guidance...


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## 4lilfarmers (Feb 9, 2006)

question--have any of you mamas used a product called NDF and Liver Life (from bioray2000.com) ?? we have a new pediatrition recommended this for my 3yo who tested high when he was 1. my previous doctor seemed like he was fine b/c his level was down to 9 in three months. but his new doctor is afraid of what's built up in his tissue and wants to do this herbal chelation.

if anyone has any experience with this, please let me know!


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## aeneva (Mar 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CatskillMtnMama* 
Hi All.
We don't know if our girl has increased lead yet (she's seven months) but our house does have lead on the window sills, at the very least. I am quite worried. We are going to replace all the windows in the house with a company that has some training with lead abatement.
Have you or your spouses been tested? I had a zero lead level, then went to eight during pregnancy (when my husband, who didn't believe the lead issue was real ... grrr... stripped both the front and back porches of paint... got all over the house). I want to get another test. Is eight in an adult bad? The md's said not to worry. Am I passing the lead on to the baby through my breastmilk?
Yes, I am very worried. Has anyone found a lead abastment grant program in their state? It is so expensive to take care of this. We are takign out a second mortgage.
Liz


I was tested when my son's level was 12 at his 9 month check. The level in an adult is not as critical, but since I was nursing yes it can pass and they wanted my level to be low. I was at a 3. Ours was not in our house, but rather my husband was bringing it home on his clothes (he is a contractor). We had the health department out checking the whole house and what not and it all came back clean. A point I haven't noticed mentioned is check the water since it could be from lead solder on the pipes!

My son is now 2.5 and does not seem to have any issues and at 18 months his level was 4 and that was done strictly with diet (no supllements at all) and my husband stripping in the garage and showering before he touched DS and his clothes being washed at the laundry mat instead of at home. We now have a 4 month old and I am still just as strict about DH and the doc is going to test her at 6 months old just in case.


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## richella (Nov 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *krismarie* 
question--have any of you mamas used a product called NDF and Liver Life (from bioray2000.com) ??
if anyone has any experience with this, please let me know!









Would love to know more about this product. I have also heard of homeopathic remedies, but haven't had a chance to talk to the MD about it.


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## emma_goldman (May 18, 2005)

Sisters,

I am sending love out to all of you. This is really hard stuff. I'm thinking of you.

Debora

Quote:


Originally Posted by *counterGOPI* 
do you mena the fake ruber duckies made of plastic or real rubber duckies? we got a rubber duckie from magic cabin made from rubber trees.....

Oh, the plastic ones.


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## 4lilfarmers (Feb 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *richella* 
Would love to know more about this product. I have also heard of homeopathic remedies, but haven't had a chance to talk to the MD about it.

check out that website bioray2000.com. it's all that i really know about it except that my pedi also said that he has had great success with this type of heavy metal chelation in autistic children.


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## Delta (Oct 22, 2002)

We live in an 1870 home. My one year old was tested at my request and it came back as a 4. I am actually surprised it wasn't higher as we have had some renovations done in the past year.

Should I be worried about this? I'm not quite sure what to even do. I guess take care to clean the floors well as he is crawling.

My ped was not concerned at all. However, he was anemic too (but he was IUGR at birth as was my older son who was VERY anemic at this age) so it will be interesting if his lead levels changes as we bring his iron up.


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## richella (Nov 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Delta* 
My one year old was tested at my request and it came back as a 4.. . .Should I be worried about this?

I wouldn't necessarily worry, but be conscientious about every possible exposure, and keep testing. Yes, clean the floors, be vigilant about hand cleaning, etc. The ideal number is 0.

And here's my awesome news. After freaking out over the last couple months, dd's last test was 1.1, down from 14. ?!?!?!?!?! This is the lowest it's EVER been. I'm so relieved but also baffled. Now all I have to do is figure out what I'm doing right?


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## 3cuties (Mar 4, 2006)

My 4 year old was just tested, his level is 7. I know it is not extreme, but it is the higher end of "safe". Are there any articles I can read or links to sites that can advise me of what I can do to get it down and why this happened? My son doesn't suck on his toys. We do live in an old home, but we have only lived there for 7 weeks. There has been no renovation on the home so far. I don't know why this happened -- any links, references or advice is welcome. Thank you.







:


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## raksmama (Feb 20, 2005)

Hello mamas! Can I join?
DS(9) also has moderate lead and mercury levels. I have no idea how he got this! Our environmental MD is having him do a DMSA challange 2X aday for 3 days wait 2 weeks do it again all together 5 times. at the end of that he should do another stool sample.


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## sandygirl (Oct 27, 2007)

I'm here to join in too - DD's pedi just called and her results were 15 {normal is .9 or under}. DD is 13mo.

I'm wracking my brain trying to figure out where is could be coming from. Anything china just went out the door {she had had some of the recalled toys} but other than that - house build in 1978 & new coat of paint 3yrs ago before we moved in. We haven't done any remodeling other than pulling up carpets.

How do you test the water???? Our city water sucks and tastes horrible.


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

A house built in 1978 isn't necessarily safe, especially on outside paint. When my mom's house was tested, we found it on the threshold to the front door and on the black iron handrail on the steps to the side door.

To test water, you can buy a kit at a hardware store and send it off to a lab. Not sure how well these work, though.

Good luck.


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## pumpkingirl71 (Jul 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *staceychev* 
A house built in 1978 isn't necessarily safe, especially on outside paint.

Really, I thought lead paint was outlawed by 78?


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pumpkingirl71* 
Really, I thought lead paint was outlawed by 78?

No more was made after 1978, but it could still be used until 1980. So any house 1980 or older MAY have lead paint.


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## sandygirl (Oct 27, 2007)

mamas - quick question.

UP until the end of July I worked in a 125+ year old building {but it was completely remodeled in the area I worked in just before I got PG with DD}. They were doing construction on the 3rd floor {I worked on the 1st floor}.

Could this have been the source of lead??? They used a jackhammer a lot, and there was definately some dust falling. The elevator was full of dust too from it.

I am going to be so mad if I find out that's what gave DD a high lead level!!!!!

ETA: they were doing the 3rd floor constructoin when I quit.


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## BeingMe (Oct 25, 2006)

My 18 month old daughter has never been tested. I asked the nurse practitioner about it and she said they don't do a routine test. However, I got them to issue me a lab slip for a blood draw. I was wondering though, should I do the hair test instead?? Are they better? Or should I do the blood and have them do an iron panel while they are pulling blood since she was anemic at her 1 year apt?


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

When Lu had her lead poisoning, I was concerned about in-utero exposure, but the research I did indicated that this was pretty rare (for lead to pass to the fetus), and was mostly seen outside of the USA. However, if you were tracking lead dust home, I guess it could be that. It seems a long shot to me, but I'm not an expert!


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## leila1213 (Sep 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shannyshan* 
My 18 month old daughter has never been tested. I asked the nurse practitioner about it and she said they don't do a routine test. However, I got them to issue me a lab slip for a blood draw. I was wondering though, should I do the hair test instead?? Are they better? Or should I do the blood and have them do an iron panel while they are pulling blood since she was anemic at her 1 year apt?


We had the heel stick done first (I think they can do a finger prick too) but when I asked for a blood draw the ped also ordered a CBC (Complete blood count) to check for anemia. (My DD's iron level was fine at 12 mos.) Unfortunately, having the blood drawn was a nightmare and we couldn't get a sample, so we're doing the hair test and maybe repeating the heel stick depending on the results. If I had it to do over again, I would have gotten some of the numbing gel to prevent the traumatic experience from the blood draw attempts. Now I think even if we numbed her it is the whole experience that would freak her out because she knows what's coming.


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## momster (Oct 2, 2005)

I've been trying to read through this thread, but decided to skip to the end because I never seem to make it through before ds needs me.

Just a quick response about lower lead levels (forgive me if this was addressed earlier). There are effects at lead levels less than 10 (the "safe" level). Recent research has shown an IQ drop of 5 points by a lead level of 4 in children. This is the largest interval drop, after that it is about 2 points of IQ drop per 10 points of lead increase I think. Also, a level of 5 in a pregnant woman going into the third trimester can affect the fetus. If you want the links, let me know; I'll have to search for them again.

I don't mean to minimize the tragedy of having a very high level or say that a low level of lead is just as bad, but I do feel like Departments of Health have been arbitrarily using a level of 10 and thus encouraging pediatricians to ignore the issue of lead exposure in a large number of children.

I'll post about our story and questions later.


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## momster (Oct 2, 2005)

My son had a lead level of 8 at 9 months. He and I then moved out of the house while major work was done and then we had the house professionally cleaned of lead. We were separated from dp for 3 months, which was devastating for our family, but necessary nonetheless. His level dropped to undetectable within 3 mos. We did not give Fe supplements, but did increase iron and calcium in his food and avoided fried foods and in general fed him a very healthy, whole foods diet. His level at 2 1/2 is now 4.

Our holistic pediatrician wants to try chelating with DMSA, but I'm worried about side effects, especially since his level is not that high. Our chiropractor is suggesting Heavy Metal Detox (an herbal formula) and Cellular Defense instead. Does anyone have experience with these remedies. We would do urine testing during the treatment to determine effectiveness, etc.

Thanks. And I'll keep making my way through the thread to see if anyone has mentioned these or other remedies before.

Much love to all of you. Dealing with lead has brought me to new levels of fear and compulsivity, it really can make you crazy!


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momster* 
Much love to all of you. Dealing with lead has brought me to new levels of fear and compulsivity, it really can make you crazy!









s

This is so true. It does absolutely make you crazy.


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## leila1213 (Sep 15, 2006)

I x-posted this but wanted to see what you mommas think:

I am dumbfounded and don't know where to begin. I had my 16 MO daughter's hair test done by DDI because she had a heel stick lead test result of 9. I read the Lead Thread and joined the Autism-Mercury Yahoo group to get the discount on the hair test. I almost wish I hadn't.

I just got the results of her hair elements test and the lead & mercury I was worried about appear to be OK (3.9 and .29, respectively). However, her Aluminum, Antimony, Arsenic, Cadmium, Silver, Tin and Titanium are in the yellow range. (Lead is also in yellow, but the 3.9 is way lower than the 9-10 that I thought is the threashold for concern.) Moreover, her Total Toxic Representation is OFF THE CHARTS!

Also, her Potassium is very very high (380), Sodium, Boron, Iodine, Rubidium & Zirconium are in the high yellow range. She is also extremely low in Zinc (36) & Lithium (.004). Manganese, Selenium, Cobalt and Germanium are in the low yellow range.

I have a good ped but hair tests aren't "standard" so I don't think she will help interpret or know a thing about chelation. I have a homeopath/oriental practitioner but I'm not sure she is all that knowledgeable on metals. (She did "tap out" the lead with kinesiology, maybe that helped bring her down from 9 to 3.9?)

I also know of a DAN! dr in the area, but I don't know if I should go through the whole process of obtaining medical records to switch if I'm not sure I want to switch. I'm also a little scared of what he might recommend for her. I see on his website he does IV chelation and chelation challenges, which I thought the Autism-Mercury group frowned on.

Her symptoms are really mild, but have led me on this quest nonetheless. The main thing is chronic constipation, coupled with sleep disturbances and some hyperactivity. She has a little bit of cradle cap and bumpy skin, sometimes slightly dark circles under her eyes, but nothing major you could see from looking at her (she's beautiful, really)... I would feel bad posting to the Autism-Mercury group since their problems seem so much more pressing than mine.

What should I do?? Thanks in advance for any ideas.

ETA: BTW, I currently give her Vit C, probiotic, magnesium and fish oil every 1-2 days. I am going to start supplementing with zinc, and I've read that should help balance out the cadmium. I'm also going to get rid of the aluminum pans & foil in the house. I already don't wear anti-perspirant. Any other ideas where these things might be coming from??


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

I think you need someone to interpret the results. My understanding is that hair tests indicate what is being excreted, not the total body burden. She's probably using all the zinc to make metallothionen and get the lead out of her body! As for the antimony etc., it is a toxic world. They put that crap in the fire retardants they put on kids pjs! I don't think that chelation is advised for pre-verbal children. Your child needs to be able to report symptoms to you, like headaches and stomach aches- both side effects of chelation. I think that the cellular defense, and other such things, can be really harsh (kids vomiting and being miserable). Make sure her calcium and iron intakes are high, so that she doesn't re-absorb stuff she's trying to detox. Have you looked into yeast issues or gluten intolerance? They are common among autistic kids, and though the etiology of their issues and ours are not the same, many of the symptoms are similar. Yeast can cause cradle cap and bumpy skin (also a sign of needing vitamin a or efas), and gluten or other food sensitivities the other symptoms. Momster we would love those links. . .


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## BeingMe (Oct 25, 2006)

I have a question.....
My naturopath said the hair test was good for my DD but for me she wanted to run a urine test, have me take a little chealator to stimulate anything, then retest. But I would have to wait on mine till I'm done nursing.
Any thoughts????


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## leila1213 (Sep 15, 2006)

Could you do a urine test now to get a baseline? I have read that chelation "challenge" tests are very controversial. I would definitely wait on that till I did more research.


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## Dido (Jan 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momster* 
Just a quick response about lower lead levels (forgive me if this was addressed earlier). There are effects at lead levels less than 10 (the "safe" level). *Recent research has shown an IQ drop of 5 points by a lead level of 4 in children.* This is the largest interval drop, after that it is about 2 points of IQ drop per 10 points of lead increase I think.

A link would be great (I bolded what I'm especially curious about). I haven't read anything that specific and conclusive, although I agree with your overall point that research shows significant harm occurs under the official safety level of 10.

This is the relevant study I'm aware of:

Quote:

Environ Health Perspect. 2006 Feb;114(2):A85-6; author reply A86-7.

Low-level environmental lead exposure and children's intellectual function: an international pooled analysis.
Lanphear BP, Hornung R, Khoury J, Yolton K, Baghurst P, Bellinger DC, Canfield RL, Dietrich KN, Bornschein R, Greene T, Rothenberg SJ, Needleman HL, Schnaas L, Wasserman G, Graziano J, Roberts R.

Cincinnati Children's Hospital Medical Center, Cincinnati, Ohio 45229-3039, USA. [email protected]

Lead is a confirmed neurotoxin, but questions remain about lead-associated intellectual deficits at blood lead levels < 10 microg/dL and whether lower exposures are, for a given change in exposure, associated with greater deficits. The objective of this study was to examine the association of intelligence test scores and blood lead concentration, especially for children who had maximal measured blood lead levels < 10 microg/dL. We examined data collected from 1,333 children who participated in seven international population-based longitudinal cohort studies, followed from birth or infancy until 5-10 years of age. The full-scale IQ score was the primary outcome measure. The geometric mean blood lead concentration of the children peaked at 17.8 microg/dL and declined to 9.4 microg/dL by 5-7 years of age; 244 (18%) children had a maximal blood lead concentration < 10 microg/dL, and 103 (8%) had a maximal blood lead concentration < 7.5 microg/dL. After adjustment for covariates, we found an inverse relationship between blood lead concentration and IQ score. Using a log-linear model, we found a 6.9 IQ point decrement [95% confidence interval (CI), 4.2-9.4] associated with an increase in concurrent blood lead levels from 2.4 to 30 microg/dL. *The estimated IQ point decrements associated with an increase in blood lead from 2.4 to 10 microg/dL, 10 to 20 microg/dL, and 20 to 30 microg/dL were 3.9 (95% CI, 2.4-5.3), 1.9 (95% CI, 1.2-2.6), and 1.1 (95% CI, 0.7-1.5), respectively.* For a given increase in blood lead, the lead-associated intellectual decrement for children with a maximal blood lead level < 7.5 microg/dL was significantly greater than that observed for those with a maximal blood lead level > or = 7.5 microg/dL (p = 0.015). We conclude that environmental lead exposure in children who have maximal blood lead levels < 7.5 microg/dL is associated with intellectual deficits.

Apologies if this has already been posted - I've never made it through every page of this thread.

Another thing that remains unclear is that once the lead level starts dropping, how much difference it makes how much time your child spent at the higher lead levels.

(Mods - this is an abstract and intended to be quoted as such and in full, so no copyright violation is occurring)


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## 3cuties (Mar 4, 2006)

Sorry for my ignornnace -- so the study concludes it is levels greater than 7.5 that are problematic?


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## Dido (Jan 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *3cuties* 
Sorry for my ignornnace -- so the study concludes it is levels greater than 7.5 that are problematic?

No, the opposite, actually. They found that the greatest rate of IQ loss happens between 2.4 and 10. Cognitive deficits continue to increase above 10, but at a slower rate. Their main conclusion is that levels under 7.5 do cause intellectual deficits.


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## dinahx (Sep 17, 2005)

Oh it's so good to connect with some mamas who are as concerned about this as I am! Most mamas I meet just act like I am an overly scientific freak!

DS picked up Lead in Upstate NY where many of the homes have lead. I think his came from my IL's house and we just haven't been able to address it with them. They CANNOT afford to replace the windows in question. I think it goes like this, they have a 10 year old carpet, so while they don't open & close their lead windows too much, the rug has been absorbing & storing lead dust from the windows and from the highway they live on for a long time! We hope to someday get them to replace the rug with laminite or something that won't absorb the lead dust.

We've moved, so it's not so much an issue, but it really freaks me out when we go back to visit.










It really made me so mad, because I really tried to be aware of this issue. I can't tell you how many apts I looked at, etc trying to find one that was lead free only to have lead exposure anyway.

Has anyone else heard that lead exposure can come from keys?


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## harmonymama (Feb 4, 2005)

I also haven't made it through the whole thread though I'll be coming back. As the mama of an older child I would urge all mamas to take any lead levels in the body very seriously- certainly anything above a 1 or 2! No lead in the body is normal. I became aware of this issues when we bought our first home and my oldest was 2 and I was pregnant with my second. We bought a house built in 1931. It was beautiful and we loved it. Prior to moving into this house my DS tested at a level 4 (we had to specifically request the results because under 10 is considered negative and you don't get notified). We did our own lead cleanup with TSP wet washing of walls and everything, got the house spot tested and retested and the lead levels went down to acceptable levels. We always used a hepa vac and TSP, wet wiped windows regularly, and washed hands a lot. We got kids retested and tests always came back negative. I think we checked the numbers again and it hovered around a 4. I knew no lead in the body is normal, but I figured we were doing the best we could and lots of kids had levels of 4. I comforted myself with the justification that newer houses probably have potent yet to be discovered toxins.

Fast forward- My oldest DS is verbally gifted but also has a learning disability and behavioral attention and impulse control problems. There is definitely a neurological basis. There's no way to know how much the lead had to do with it, but I often have trouble dealing with the fact that we knowingly bought and stayed in a house with lead basically because we loved it. We took lots of precautions, but in hindsight I'm really not sure it was worth the risk.

I am taking him to a doc who may want to do chelation treatment (we're awaiting current test results). I'm scared of the decisions I may be facing! I would be really interested in any links that really go into the pros and cons of chelation therapy under the supervision of a doctor. I would love to get this crap out of his body, but... is it worth yet another risk?


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## chioma (Jul 10, 2006)

the dept of health came in last friday and told us our whole house is full of lead. we have to move, no resources to do so, trying to find help from every agency/organization i can get on the phone, no luck yet. our area is full of houses that are poisoning kids and there is not one agency set up to help families in this situation. will type more later if this one posts, as i have typed a longer post twice only to be told i am not logged in, and i am.


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## sandygirl (Oct 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sandygirl* 
I'm here to join in too - DD's pedi just called and her results were 15 {normal is .9 or under}. DD is 13mo.

I'm wracking my brain trying to figure out where is could be coming from. Anything china just went out the door {she had had some of the recalled toys} but other than that - house build in 1978 & new coat of paint 3yrs ago before we moved in. We haven't done any remodeling other than pulling up carpets.

How do you test the water???? Our city water sucks and tastes horrible.

The retest results are in - 17 with a vein draw.







:

DD's pedi isn't doing anything about it either "we'll just watch it" - she is convinced that it was toys from china.

So - what can I do myself to help it go down?


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## sandygirl (Oct 27, 2007)

hey mamas - quick question:

I just got a letter from the local health dept, informing me of DD's levels {but not her retest levels}. They want me to call for "nurse consultation & education"

What happens if I don't call? I'm a single mama FYI.

I don't really want them involved {coming to home to test, us having to go to Health Dept, etc} because I don't feel there is any need for it {we are fairly certain her high levels came from her toys}.


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## Dido (Jan 7, 2006)

Sandygirl - please accept the help from the health department. They may be able to identify a source of lead you aren't aware of. You simply can't be certain the problem is entirely due to toys. You do not want to miss out on an opportunity to eliminate an exposure source. Please also accept their offer of counseling and education. It's great that you are coming here for tips, but again, why turn your back on another information source? You may also learn information about lead exposures and your legal rights that are specific to your area.

Harmonymama - it sounds like you don't have a current lead level for your DS. Even if his current lead level continued to be 4, chelation is not warranted at that level. No legitimate doctor is going to prescribe DMSA for a 4. Not worth the risk.

Dinahx - Yes, household keys are definitely a source of lead exposure. No one should let their children play with their keys, and if you can, wash your hands immediately after handling keys when you come into the house.


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## sandygirl (Oct 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BrklynMama* 
Sandygirl - please accept the help from the health department. They may be able to identify a source of lead you aren't aware of. You simply can't be certain the problem is entirely due to toys. You do not want to miss out on an opportunity to eliminate an exposure source. Please also accept their offer of counseling and education. It's great that you are coming here for tips, but again, why turn your back on another information source? You may also learn information about lead exposures and your legal rights that are specific to your area.


I swhould have clarified - my HD doesn't come out and do testing unless the level is over 20 - but I would be required to go to "Classes" since DD's is 18. The classes are a farce from what I've been told.


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## emma_goldman (May 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dinahx* 
Has anyone else heard that lead exposure can come from keys?

Yes, I've heard that. From the metal fragments, I guess.


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## leila1213 (Sep 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sandygirl* 
The retest results are in - 17 with a vein draw.







:

DD's pedi isn't doing anything about it either "we'll just watch it" - she is convinced that it was toys from china.

So - what can I do myself to help it go down?

Make sure she gets lots of calcium, iron and vitamin C in her diet. Also I believe good fats (like cod liver oil) are essential.

Harmonymama, Is your doc a DAN! dr?


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## sandygirl (Oct 27, 2007)

ugh - my HD is giving me issues because of DD's lead levels -

what are my rights here?

They are telling me that DD has to move out, that I have to stop nursing her, we need to demolish our home, etc. They even have the year our home was built wrong! They have not come in to test or anything - and with their scaremongering I'm not inclined to let them!

I'm hoping someone here can tell me my rights in reguards to this.


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## Dido (Jan 7, 2006)

Sandygirl, I don't know your legal rights here, I'm sorry, although I'm sure they can't make you wean. I've never heard of a house getting demolished in these circumstances - rather, lead abatement is performed: repainting, replacing windows, adding topsoil to lawns, etc. Much of this may well be paid for by the HD, if you let them in the door, of course. I actually agree with the suggestion to move out - not necessarily permanently, but if you have a nearby relative that you and your daughter could stay with while the lead source gets determined, that is ideal.

I think you should focus on protecting your daughter and less on a wrangle with the HD. I know you feel disrespected and jerked around, but that's not really as important as your daughter's developing brain. Let them in for an inspection - at least then you have some data to go on and there will be fewer wild suggestions being tossed around. If you can afford it and you really don't trust the HD, then get your own inspection done so you have two sets of data. You can find a list of certified inspectors at the EPA website.


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## hannahmama (Aug 21, 2006)

hearing your stories, i feel thankful, but still concerned, about my dd 12mo lead test result of 6. i'd like to see it below 3, as would our wonderful dr. i'm going to try this cilantro pesto idea. also, anyone know solutions for lead in the water? we are filtering now, and i've heard it's good to let it run for a while, but that seems such a waste... ugh. does anyone know what the laws are in ma for landlords dealing with the lead? it would be great if we could get a household filter system, but i know that can be expensive, so i'm hoping it would be the landlord's expense. best of luck to all of you getting the lead out of your babies. it makes me crazy that we should even have to worry about this for our children.


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## harmonymama (Feb 4, 2005)

Yes, my son's doc is a DAN! doc. I don't know if she would recommend chelation for a level of 4 or not, but she seemed to be preparing me for the idea, and said 4 is high. We sent a urine sample to France that she said is the definitive lead test. But my son also had a vaccine reaction, so I think she is trying to look at his total heavy metal exposure over the course of his lifetime not just right now (b/c blood lead levels only show what had entered body in past 30 days). Anyway I'm not sure about any of this, but trying to educate myself more before our next appointment. Anyone have experience with DAN! doctors or these types of tests/treatments? Advice?


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## Dido (Jan 7, 2006)

Hannahmama - yes, let the water run for a couple of minutes in the morning. I know it seems wasteful but your kid's health takes priority, yk? Check your local HD to ask about water testing. In NY you can send your water away to get tested for free - see if there's a similar program in MA. Your landlord is not required to do anything about lead in the water unless there's a confirmed hazardous level. So check the water and then work from there.

Harmonymama - I _think_ you are wrong about blood lead levels only showing the last 30 days of exposure. I can't search out links right now, but if you only have that information from your DAN doctor, I'd find another source to double-check.

Blood tests are "definitive" in the sense that all the information we have about the negative cognitive impacts of lead exposure is based on studying blood lead levels. Those are the metrics that researchers are looking at. You might try asking your DAN doc for further information about her supposedly "definitive" test, such as peer-reviewed studies establishing its significance, and why it is that the only lab capable of performing it is overseas, and whether this lab does business with anyone other than the alternative medical community. You might also ask her for any peer-reviewed studies showing the positive impact of chelation on children with a lead level of 4 (this is a trick question; there are none). Please get a second opinion before starting on some dangerous and expensive course of therapy such as chelation and consider that DAN docs can have an agenda of their own.


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## leila1213 (Sep 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *harmonymama* 
Yes, my son's doc is a DAN! doc. I don't know if she would recommend chelation for a level of 4 or not, but she seemed to be preparing me for the idea, and said 4 is high. We sent a urine sample to France that she said is the definitive lead test. But my son also had a vaccine reaction, so I think she is trying to look at his total heavy metal exposure over the course of his lifetime not just right now (b/c blood lead levels only show what had entered body in past 30 days). Anyway I'm not sure about any of this, but trying to educate myself more before our next appointment. Anyone have experience with DAN! doctors or these types of tests/treatments? Advice?

My holistic practitioner said she just got back from a conference where they spoke of urine testing as the definitive test for metals. I also thought it was pretty well known that blood lead levels are only indicative of recent metal exposure, not lifetime build-up. Although, it is true that all the research I have seen does refer to BLL on symptoms and effects of lead. So, I don't have any answers for you, but just wanted to back up some of the info you're getting from the DAN.


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## Dido (Jan 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leila1213* 
My holistic practitioner said she just got back from a conference where they spoke of urine testing as the definitive test for metals. I also thought it was pretty well known that blood lead levels are only indicative of recent metal exposure, not lifetime build-up.

Yes, that is well known. But indicative of the past few _months_ of exposure, not the past 30 days, which is what harmonymama's doctor told her.

As for urine testing: this is _not_ the definitive test for how much lead is present in the body. Rather, this shows how much lead is being _excreted_. Lead is tested in urine during a course of chelation, to determine how much lead is being excreted as a result of the therapy. So if a doctor is recommending urine testing, that doctor is planning to recommend chelation. I would bet that your holistic practitioner heard urine testing discussed in the context of chelation.


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## BeingMe (Oct 25, 2006)

I have the hair test to do on my DD, but I was wondering how much it generally takes. She really doesn't have much hair and I wasd wondering if I should wait till after Thanksgiving to cut off the sample.


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## leila1213 (Sep 15, 2006)

She also recommend that I load up on cilantro, so that DD would get it through breastmilk. I told her about the concerns I have read about here and on the Autism-Mercury board but she didn't think there was any reason it would be dangerous to chelate with cilantro.

She also wants to administer homeopathic doses of lead, cadmium and the other metals that she is toxic from. Has anyone ever heard of this?


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## Dido (Jan 7, 2006)

Leila, by all means give your LO cilantro; the danger posed by chelation comes from pharmaceutical chelating agents not a diet high in greens (BTW I am certainly not against chelation in all cases of lead poisoning, but it is only warranted in cases of particularly high BLL). However, think of the cilantro as something you are trying _in addition to_ rather than _instead of_ the proven dietary methods of limiting lead absorption - i.e. feeding high-iron and high-calcium foods or providing supplements.

Homeopathic doses of anything aren't likely to do harm, but there is certainly no benefit to taking in even tiny doses of lead.


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## chioma (Jul 10, 2006)

hi mommas,

we had the city codes officer come into our house on wednesday, our landlord came shortly after the codes officer arrived so he could find out what he needed to do about the house. my dd tested with a level of 23, ok, we are freaking out about the potential long term damage to her little brain. can you believe that this landlord had the nerve to sit in MY living room and start to cry because of how much money it will cost him to fix HIS OWN property so that it is liveable? I had to walk outside and stay there, cuz i was seriously losing my mind. we are fighting with him about refunding us some rent money to help us defray the cost of moving, finding another place, etc. the HD has said we don't HAVE to move, but our dd should not be here while the repairs are taking place, and since this guy wants to do the bare minimum and we don't have a place we can stick our dd while the work is being done...she is 13 months old, and still breastfeeding, if she goes we all go. the landlord called on friday and gave us an offer for what works out to be almost all the rent money we have paid him (we have only lived here since May), but he wanted us to sign a release that we would never come after him for more in the future. he is hopeless...of course we told him no. gotta run, more later


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## Dido (Jan 7, 2006)

Chioma - I'm so sorry. Can you talk to a lawyer? Your instincts are right on, do not sign anything your landlord gives you and do not release him from any responsibility. Is it possible to arrange for the HD to deal with the landlord? In NY when it comes to lead poisoning, the landlord is going to have to deal with the city and it's not just up to the individual tenant to negotiate. If the city is expecting you to handle the whole thing, I really think a lawyer who specializes in this kind of situation could be a huge help. My understanding of landlord-tenant law is that if the property is not liveable the landlord must pay for you to live elsewhere, whether that means a motel or another rental property.

Document everything - if your daughter ends up with delays, you've got a legal case here.


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## harmonymama (Feb 4, 2005)

It was actually a public health nurse that tested my son for lead that told me blood lead levels show only what has entered the bloodstream in the past 30 days. (This was not the DAN doctor).

What is the agenda of DAN doctors?

Does anyone have a sense of the efficacy of hair vs. urine testing, or even of testing his baby hair?

Can anyone please refer me to some good unbiased site that look at the risks and benefits of chelation therapy?

I keep asking this and not coming up with anything. I'm really trying to inform myself before my son's next doctor appointment. Thanks in advance.


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## leila1213 (Sep 15, 2006)

Hi harmonymama,

Are you subscribed to the Autism-Mercury Yahoo group?? They are extremely knowledgeable about all aspects of chelation, testing, DAN doctors, etc. Can't say they are unbiased, but they are certainly an experienced and diverse group of people with a LOT of information to share.


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## Dido (Jan 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *harmonymama* 
It was actually a public health nurse that tested my son for lead that told me blood lead levels show only what has entered the bloodstream in the past 30 days. (This was not the DAN doctor).

What is the agenda of DAN doctors?

Does anyone have a sense of the efficacy of hair vs. urine testing, or even of testing his baby hair?

Can anyone please refer me to some good unbiased site that look at the risks and benefits of chelation therapy?

Sorry to blame your doc then; nurses aren't infallible either!

Regarding agendas, DAN doctors generally attribute autism and a range of behavioral irregularities to vaccine reactions and heavy metal toxicity. These conclusions are controversial to say the least. They tend to believe that biomedical interventions "cure" such conditions and are particularly fond of recommending chelation as a magic bullet. For a DAN doctor to find chelation an appropriate remedy for a BLL of 4 is testament to ideology overcoming common sense, and I would consider such a recommendation to be agenda-driven. Obviously DAN doctors are very popular on MDC and quite honestly I don't wish to divert the conversation to a wrangle over DAN and vaccines. As the mainstream medical community recognizes lead exposure and poisoning as a severe problem, I personally see no particular need to seek alternative practitioners given the level of attention, seriousness, and respect given this issue by mainstream medicine.

Neither hair nor urine testing is particularly accurate or helpful in determining the level of lead in the body.

Chelation is controversial. You're not going to find much that you can't point a finger at for being biased one way or another. I hope that the articles below can at least establish for you that chelation is the protocol for lead poisoning only when blood lead levels are much, much higher than your son's (generally a BLL of 45 or over). I'm not interested in scaring people, so I'm not going into this here, but if you want to know the worst of what chelation can do, you can google chelation and death. Bottom line, chelation is something you only want to do when necessary, and then under the care of a reputable board-certified physician.

From the New England Journal of Medicine:

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/344/19/1421

This article appeared in the Harvard Reviews of Pharmacoepidemiology:

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/Organiza.../chelation.htm

The AAP policy statement as printed in the journal Pediatrics:

http://aappolicy.aappublications.org...ics;116/4/1036


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## BeingMe (Oct 25, 2006)

So blood is better than hair???????? Ohhh I am soooo confused. Which one should I do????????????







:


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## leila1213 (Sep 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shannyshan* 
So blood is better than hair???????? Ohhh I am soooo confused. Which one should I do????????????







:

Have you ever tried to have blood drawn? My daughter made THAT decision FOR me.


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## Dido (Jan 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shannyshan* 
So blood is better than hair???????? Ohhh I am soooo confused. Which one should I do????????????








:

Blood draw. Venous, not fingerprick. There is just no controversy about what test is most accurate and useful.


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## harmonymama (Feb 4, 2005)

From my understanding, blood is the most accurate test of current/recent lead exposure. Hair and/or urine can measure (though imperfectly) lead stored from past exposure.


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## counterGOPI (Jan 22, 2005)

hey mamas!! so i dont know if you remember or not but my dd had high lead levels a year ago and we did eveything we could, even hired a lead inspector and he found nothing in our house.but her levels werent going down.
then from something i heard somewhere and just an odd gut feeling i got rid of all our *MELISSA AND DOUG TOYS*. that is the only thing i changed and removed from our home. we went back in and her lead level dropped to 3 







she was in the clear!!! i thought maybe it was just a coincidence but then my friend's dd had high lead levels, she too only removed melissa and doug toys from her home and VOILA! lead levels dropped to the safe/normal range.
NOW, a diferent friend of mine went to her local tv station b/c they had an expensive lead testing machine and she brought a few toys including MELISSA AND DOUG and what do you know- *trace amounts of lead were found!*
now knowing it's not just a coincidence I felt like I should let everyone know!!!


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## harmonymama (Feb 4, 2005)

Wow! I was just about to give a little Melissa and Doug puzzle to my neice specifically b/c I thought we'd be in ther clear on lead. Thanks for the info. Makes you feel like we'd all just be better off toy-free







.


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## DandeCobb (Jul 20, 2006)

hey mamas, we are doing pretty well over here after being stuck at a lead level of 13 for 3 months it was 8 last month!! i am so excited! we go next to test again. hope everyone is doing well


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## chioma (Jul 10, 2006)

brkylnmomma, thanks for the reply. we were actually talking to an attorney from legal aid, as we have no money for a private attorney. she told me to take anything he offered, but don't sign away any rights, as our house wasn't condemned, and the landlord had never produced a written lease, which he promised my dh he would do as soon as he received the deposit. the HD is sitting on the fence, they are the ones who told us that they recommend that we aren't here while remediation takes place....and since the codes enforcement officer didn't see that the place was so bad that it needed to be condemned by the city we are in a rather gray area. my husband did call a cousin of his who is an attorney in New Jersey, and he seems to think that we have a good case against our landlord. he called and left the guy a message the other day, next thing we know the landlord was at the door with a check for the amount of rent we have paid so far, along with a letter telling us that he always tries to "respond generously when a disagreement arises with a tenent." we are not cashing the check yet, but at least now he knows that we have somebody on our side.
all the legal issues aside, we are trying to focus on the children, dd in particular. we got cellular defense the other day, the lady at the natural foods store said to start with one drop a day and gradually build up to three a day. anybody have any experience with this product? i am trying my best with their diet, but just realized that the reason both twins have had eczema is probably from dairy in my diet, so have eliminated now for two weeks and both their skins have cleared considerably.
getting through another day the best i can, thanks for being here


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## Dido (Jan 7, 2006)

On the issue of what test to perform:

Quote:

If the question of current lead poisoning arises, however, the only reliable way to make a diagnosis is with a blood lead measurement. Hair lead concentration gives no useful information and should not be performed.46 Radiograph fluorescence measurement of lead in bone is available in a few research centers and has been used in children as young as 11 years with acceptable validity for research purposes,47 but it has no clinical utility as yet.
http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...ull/116/4/1036

Good to hear from you, Chioma - will be back later.


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

brklyn mama, there are other physicians than just the allopathic doctors. different ones like different tests, because the level of contaminants being excreted tells them something else about how the body is handling the lead, not just the blood lead level. i have read extensively about hair testing, but don't have the money. the most frustrating thing to me about the blood lead level was wondering where else the lead is lodged, which is not currently circulating. i am always saying that it's knit in her bones.


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *counterGOPI* 
hey mamas!! so i dont know if you remember or not but my dd had high lead levels a year ago and we did eveything we could, even hired a lead inspector and he found nothing in our house.but her levels werent going down.
then from something i heard somewhere and just an odd gut feeling i got rid of all our *MELISSA AND DOUG TOYS*. that is the only thing i changed and removed from our home. we went back in and her lead level dropped to 3







she was in the clear!!! i thought maybe it was just a coincidence but then my friend's dd had high lead levels, she too only removed melissa and doug toys from her home and VOILA! lead levels dropped to the safe/normal range.
NOW, a diferent friend of mine went to her local tv station b/c they had an expensive lead testing machine and she brought a few toys including MELISSA AND DOUG and what do you know- *trace amounts of lead were found!*
now knowing it's not just a coincidence I felt like I should let everyone know!!!

I'm sorry, but you could give us any other information (like maybe _which_ local TV station)? I have been in contact with the Melissa & Doug company several times, as have other mamas that I've come across on the internet, and they swear that their toys are rigorously tested and lead paint free. Before I, and every other M&D-buying Mama on this board, totally freak out, it'd be nice to have some corroboration.

Not trying to flame, not trying to be snippy. I apologize in advance. I'm being observed by the assistant superintendent today, so I'm a little on edge.


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## counterGOPI (Jan 22, 2005)

check out my posts in mindful home management and family safety, theres links in those and other mamas posting about how bad m&d is. its bad enough they are MIC to begin with. don't shoot the messenger!

im sorry if i too sound snippy, its just that a lot of ppl wouldn't listen months ago when i first told them about m&d,they wanted to continue buying their cheap MIC,slave labor toys instead of nice family made ones. i just can not fathom allowing anything being questioned by anyone in my own home,kwim? i would always much rather be safe than sorry.
but if ppl want to ignore my advice and my story again so be it. take it how you will. i only share it to try and save another family from what we have had to go through


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## counterGOPI (Jan 22, 2005)

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=794139
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=781881
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=794140


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## BeingMe (Oct 25, 2006)

What type pf stain/paint is safe to paint a wood table with? We got an unfinished one from Ikea and was wondering what we should stain/cover it with? Also we have a painted/possibly lead one from Kmart, should I strip it and redo it, if so with what?


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## milkmommie (Apr 19, 2005)

I thought this might be the best place to post my question. We have four children...15, 8 (a diehard thubsucker), 4, and 10 mos. We bought this 100 yr old house 1 year ago. I'm sure we signed a lead release form but didn't pay any attention. We're not originally from the NE and so never gave lead a second thought (never really heard much about it before living here).
So at our last checkup, ds2 and dd2 had the finger prick test. They came back high at 16 and 16.5. They did a veinous blood test and we're waiting on the results. I am trying not to freak out but find myself frequently on the verge of tears.
We have recieved a govt grant to have our house abated for lead. They need to replace windows, cover the bedroom floors, and repaint the outside and rebuild the front porch. It was declared a hazard back in July. We're still waiting on the company to come do the job!! Now that it's cold here we were thinking of waiting to have them replace the windows until Spring but I'm in a panic about the kids lead levels. Would you wait or have them start as soon as they can (meaning it could be december before they start the work).
I was also wondering what if any natural remedies anyone here has successfully used to decrease the lead levels in their little ones? Can I affect my babie's level by using something myself and therefore treating her via her breastmilk?
I have spent the last few years changing the way we live to lessen the amount of chemicals that we're exposed to. I feel so undone!!







And most of all guilty and heartsick over my poor kids futures!!! I'm literally loosing sleep over this. I wish we could sell our house. Unfortunately, we're stuck.







:
Thanks for listening and thanks for the help.


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## Dido (Jan 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chioma* 
brkylnmomma, thanks for the reply. we were actually talking to an attorney from legal aid, as we have no money for a private attorney. she told me to take anything he offered, but don't sign away any rights, as our house wasn't condemned, and the landlord had never produced a written lease, which he promised my dh he would do as soon as he received the deposit. the HD is sitting on the fence, they are the ones who told us that they recommend that we aren't here while remediation takes place....and since the codes enforcement officer didn't see that the place was so bad that it needed to be condemned by the city we are in a rather gray area. my husband did call a cousin of his who is an attorney in New Jersey, and he seems to think that we have a good case against our landlord. he called and left the guy a message the other day, next thing we know the landlord was at the door with a check for the amount of rent we have paid so far, along with a letter telling us that he always tries to "respond generously when a disagreement arises with a tenent." we are not cashing the check yet, but at least now he knows that we have somebody on our side.
all the legal issues aside, we are trying to focus on the children, dd in particular. we got cellular defense the other day, the lady at the natural foods store said to start with one drop a day and gradually build up to three a day. anybody have any experience with this product? i am trying my best with their diet, but just realized that the reason both twins have had eczema is probably from dairy in my diet, so have eliminated now for two weeks and both their skins have cleared considerably.
getting through another day the best i can, thanks for being here

It is great that you are talking to Legal Aid and have a lawyer in the family. You might search out tenants' rights groups as well. Does the landlord's check indicate that cashing it means agreeing with his offer (i.e. does it say "in full and final repayment of any obligation to tenant" or whatnot)? If it's just a check with nothing else written on it, you should check with your Legal Aid contact, but I would think you could go ahead and cash it and keep right on pressing for more.

Is there a relative you and the kids can stay with while you search out new housing, etc? I hope you can get them out of the poisoned environment as soon as possible. Or might the HD immediately pay for, at the very least, a HEPA vac that can do a preliminary clean-up? Earlier in this thread there are stories from mothers who got a lot of government help to lead-clean, there might be something that would help you out.

I don't know anything about cellular defense, sorry. You do want to get your DD on iron and calcium supplements, though...


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## Dido (Jan 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *provocativa* 
brklyn mama, there are other physicians than just the allopathic doctors. different ones like different tests, because the level of contaminants being excreted tells them something else about how the body is handling the lead, not just the blood lead level. i have read extensively about hair testing, but don't have the money. the most frustrating thing to me about the blood lead level was wondering where else the lead is lodged, which is not currently circulating. i am always saying that it's knit in her bones.

Yeah, I'm aware of the alternative practitioners, that's why I was commenting on DAN. To each their own. I have no bone to pick with complementary approaches, but it's my hope that someone seeking out a homeopath or naturopath or what-have-you is not going to forgo approaches that have a proven track record, embark on dangerous therapies that do not, or let themselves be terrified by opinions that are not backed up by peer-reviewed research. I can appreciate your desire to know more fully what level of lead is present in your daughter's body (I feel the same way) but frankly a hair test is not going to be a reliable indicator as to what's in her bones.


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## Dido (Jan 7, 2006)

Milkmommie - so sorry you are dealing with this. A lot of the questions you are asking have been discussed on this thread. Take a deep breath and go back to the beginning....

Dandecobb - congrats on the great improvement in levels!

CounterGOPI - thanks for the M&D info. I looked at all the threads you linked. As far as hard evidence, so far we have a link to the TV station, but no news report as yet, and we have a European recall of one toy from 2006. That's not a lot of verification, but it's enough to get me to segregate our M&D toys tonight and watch carefully to hear more!


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *milkmommie* 
I thought this might be the best place to post my question. We have four children...15, 8 (a diehard thubsucker), 4, and 10 mos. We bought this 100 yr old house 1 year ago. I'm sure we signed a lead release form but didn't pay any attention. We're not originally from the NE and so never gave lead a second thought (never really heard much about it before living here).
So at our last checkup, ds2 and dd2 had the finger prick test. They came back high at 16 and 16.5. They did a veinous blood test and we're waiting on the results. I am trying not to freak out but find myself frequently on the verge of tears.
We have recieved a govt grant to have our house abated for lead. They need to replace windows, cover the bedroom floors, and repaint the outside and rebuild the front porch. It was declared a hazard back in July. We're still waiting on the company to come do the job!! Now that it's cold here we were thinking of waiting to have them replace the windows until Spring but I'm in a panic about the kids lead levels. Would you wait or have them start as soon as they can (meaning it could be december before they start the work).
I was also wondering what if any natural remedies anyone here has successfully used to decrease the lead levels in their little ones? Can I affect my babie's level by using something myself and therefore treating her via her breastmilk?
I have spent the last few years changing the way we live to lessen the amount of chemicals that we're exposed to. I feel so undone!!







And most of all guilty and heartsick over my poor kids futures!!! I'm literally loosing sleep over this. I wish we could sell our house. Unfortunately, we're stuck.







:
Thanks for listening and thanks for the help.

Hi Milkmommie! My dd's level was 13.1 a year ago. 3 months later it was 10. At her 18 month WBV it was 6.1. We had her tested at 2 years and we never got a phone call, so I am assuming it is less than 4 now. (Yes, I am going to call to find out, eventually.) Like you, we live in an older home. (built before the 1800's) Thankfully, we don't have lead IN our home, but an old shed in our yard is full of it. Also, the neighbors demolished their garage and it was painted. I am assuming a lot of the dust blew into our house from that, and drug in on our shoes.

What made my dd's level drop significantly was imposing a no shoes rule in the house. Yes, its inconvienent, but it helped. That could help if your porch is pealing paint. I also bit the bullet and bought a $600 dyson vacuum. I vacuum the floors daily with it. Also, mopping floors with cascade helps bind with the lead and make it less absorbable. Its all a pain to do, but I can notice such a difference in her. She sleeps so much better, eats some now, and is much less irritable. I thought she was just a beast of a child, and now I feel bad since she really is a sweet girl when she isn't poisoned with lead.







:

I know how heartbreaking it is. You think you found the perfect house... And then find out it isn't.







Like you, we are stuck in the area for awhile. Give me a call sometime if you want to chat about it!


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## nicoley73 (May 21, 2005)

My dd just tested at a level 3. We currently live in a new building, she doesn't have any of the recalled toys (although she does have M&D toys). She does put everything in her mouth and has been anemic in the past. We are moving to a 1920's house at the end of January, so I am worried that her levels will increase. Plus I have a baby who will be crawling by the time we move in.

Although all of the woodwork in the house was stripped and repainted by the prior owners there is flaking paint on the windows and sills, which my dh is currently sanding and painting (carefully and according to the epa guidelines).

Can anyone recommend a hepa vacuum? I think it will really help.


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

You can read the thread for hepa vac recs. Cascade is really toxic. I posted a link somewhere in this monster of a thread, of a study that showed that non-toxic cleaning with rinsing and drying (multiple wipes) did as good as the phosphate cleaners. I see your point about using it, but I am always afraid that it trades one toxin for another if my rinsing isnt perfect. Also about staying in a house needing repair, shut all windows, do not open them, lead-clean all sills and paint bonding primer on any visible imperfections in the house.

Brklyn Mama, I do agree that allopathic tests are good ones. But there is tons of research about the negative effects of even smaller amounts of lead, and allopathic medicine offers NO treatment for a lead level under 30. We couldn't even get a ped interested in the subject, even though there is plenty of research indicating it's seriousness. There aren't- oops, baby meltdown, later . . .


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## chioma (Jul 10, 2006)

BrklynMama and others,
the landlord actually wrote in the memo section of the check "return rent and sec. deposit", so i think that it would be safe to cash it, but the attorney cousin told us to hold onto it until he gives us to ok, which i think is going to be after we have most if not all of our stuff out of here. we are going to stay with a guardian angel who we kept meeting at the mall who would always stop to admire our children. we had exchanged phone numbers months ago, she called right after we found out about our predicament, she told us we are welcome to stay with her and her dh until we find a better place. we are not having much luck, every place we are seeing is in older buildings, and i am so paranoid i won't even consider another old place again. the HD said they have a HEPA vac we could borrow, but it is out right now, there is a waiting list for it...we will be out of here before they can get it to us. if everything goes according to plan we should be out of here by the end of next week. i don't know what to do about all our stuff that i think is contaminated, my dh is all for chucking everything, but we can't start all over from scratch.
we are also waiting on results from bloodwork that was taken last friday, hoping it will be back by monday.


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## Gitti (Dec 20, 2003)

For what it's worth -

Quote:

2) Masters and Coplan have reported (International Journal of Environmental Studies, in press) that silicofluorides in *fluoridated drinking water increased levels of lead in children's blood*, a risk factor that predicts higher crime rates, ADD and learning disabilities.

http://www.fluoridealert.org/pmullenix.htm


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## BeingMe (Oct 25, 2006)

Well, I guess I will try the blood test first. The benefit is that I can test her iron as well, but I'm sure not looking forward to it. I have been debating taking her to a doc for a well checkup to get their opionion(specifically Dr. Sear's), but then again I was thinking of an ND. I wish the answers were clear to health questions. Especially when I myself have health issues, it's so hard to wrap my mind around everything.


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## BeingMe (Oct 25, 2006)

Forgot to see if anyone has any info on safely stripping and repainting possibly tainted table and chairs? What's the best way and best products to use???


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## harmonymama (Feb 4, 2005)

I'm trying to decide between a Nilfisk and a Dyson. Sounds like the prices are comparable, and the Dyson has continuous suction, but the Nilfisk says powerful suction, so I'm not sure how important that difference is. I really don't know how to figure out which is better. Also are all the Dyson models good for lead or only certain ones. I'm thinking of getting the slim model (DC 14) or the complete model (DC 18), because I can buy them here at Costco. Also does the the Nilfisk have a 5-year warranty like the Dyson? I didn't see that in the specks. Which is easier to use? Which is better for low pile carpet and bare floors? Can anyone help with experiences, opionions, or pros and cons of each? Thanks so much. I just feel overwhelmed by this research sometimes.

I used a cheap $50 shop vac with a hepa filter for 2 years in our old house not knowing their was any difference







:


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## AnoriensMom (Feb 13, 2005)

I just wanted to post a happy update!
My daughter recently turned 4!!! And seems to be doing developmentally ok. She defintely does not have ADHD!! She still does not sleep well and is very defiant at times, but I will never know what is just her personality and what is because of the lead. To recap, her 12 month routine lead test came back at 31, it took over 2 years to get it below 5. It is a relief to not being thinking and worrying about it every day now. We recently moved to the west coast and are living in a much newer house.

Hugs to all of you that are currently living the nightmare


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## harmonymama (Feb 4, 2005)

I posted this question in Mindful Home Management, but I really want to hear from people who know how serious lead can be. Thanks.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...=1#post9872569

Also please see vac question above.


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## midwestmeg (Jul 10, 2005)

First off- big HUGS to those of you mamas who have dealt with really high lead levels in your children. Scary!









I'm pretty minor on the scale of things... but my boy just came back with a level of 6, and when my daughter was tested at the same age she was only a 2.

So, I've started the usual investigation of what could be different and dh is having our water tested.

I'm looking at:
1. toys- I noticed that M&D is a culprit- wow, but not surprising at all, and ds does chew on dd's puzzles, some of which are M&D I think
2. water pipes
3. water heater (dh refurbished one a year ago... maybe not such a good idea)
4. paint from the exterior (we do live in an ancient farmhouse- the shoes off rule seemed like it might help)

I know I'm totally minor on the scale of things- but I am concerned. I'm going to have myself tested and my daughter. If the levels decrease over the winter, I'm going to think it might be our exterior paint (interior is all new walls and new paint). If they don't I am going to have to look closely at our toys. Apparently, the danger of MIC applies to everyone- which I find annoyingly ironic, being that I am so anti-plastic.









Other ideas for me?

Also, how long does it take the levels to decrease, what can I do to aid that and where is the 'danger' level- although having heavy metals in your body at age one just can't be good!!









TIA. Meg


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## midwestmeg (Jul 10, 2005)

Hey, just reading the old posts and answering a lot of my own questions- thank you!

What a great thread and yet it is SO WRONG that we have to discuss this at all.


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## gardenmom (Apr 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *harmonymama* 
I'm trying to decide between a Nilfisk and a Dyson. Sounds like the prices are comparable, and the Dyson has continuous suction, but the Nilfisk says powerful suction, so I'm not sure how important that difference is. I really don't know how to figure out which is better. Also are all the Dyson models good for lead or only certain ones.

I have a Nilfisk Family Vac that I looked into carefully before purchasing, about 3 years ago. The Nilfisk is a _sealed_ Hepa filtration system. There is a paper bag (with a 'self closure' system for removal), then a rubberized cotton dust filter, then a cartridge style hepa filter in the vac. All air must be forced through all three "filters" before passing out through the hepa filter. The canister is tightly sealed. Though they make no claims on the literature for lead removal, it is nearly the same system that is sold commercially for that purpose (or so a rep from Nilfisk told me before I purchased mine.) It is probably the best dollar value of any appliance I've ever purchased. Also if you have carpets, you really need to spend the extra money on the power rug attachment.

Here's a great lead/hepa vac info sheet from someone I've spoken to/friends have hired (for mold services), and I trust:
http://www.createyourhealthyhome.com/HEPA-vacs.htm

I believe that the Dyson vacuums are not sealed, so despite how good the suction may be, it's still possible that they might redistribute lead dust out the exhaust. Also, imo if you have to dump a bagless canister, you are definitely handling and dispersing lead during that process. Releasing dust back into the air can create a more hazardous condition than you started with...

I think Miele sells one model of vacuum that is a true sealed hepa system as well, but I have no experience with that one.

feel free to PM if you need more info...


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## hugosmoma (Nov 19, 2001)

YES! i was just about to post this! we too have a nilfisk family vac. the sealed container thing is critical. i got mine from allercaire (can't recall the specific sp, they were recommended on this thread). they were great and it was at my door in three days. i did crazy research and believe this is the best vac for lead in the home, for daily cleaning and important places like window gutters. we live in a hundred year old house. we rent. we have deferred matinetance. it is scary. we vac, wash hands, shoes off, eat good diet with iron and calcium. i hope the lead in toys publicity brings back up the lead paint in old houses concern. lead makes me wanna scream!


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## 4lilfarmers (Feb 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *harmonymama* 
From my understanding, blood is the most accurate test of current/recent lead exposure. Hair and/or urine can measure (though imperfectly) lead stored from past exposure.

my pedi said that hair can only measure exposure over the past months, not more. my ds had a high lead level (21) two years ago. it is currently under 5, but my new pedi wants to do an herbal chelation to remove the stored lead from his tissues. when i asked about a hair sample he said it wouldn't tell us what is in his tissue. so i'm starting the chelation (today, actually) and we'll do a urine sample in about three months to see if we are still removing some, or we'll assume it's all removed then.







:


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## 4lilfarmers (Feb 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *counterGOPI* 
hey mamas!! so i dont know if you remember or not but my dd had high lead levels a year ago and we did eveything we could, even hired a lead inspector and he found nothing in our house.but her levels werent going down.
then from something i heard somewhere and just an odd gut feeling i got rid of all our *MELISSA AND DOUG TOYS*. that is the only thing i changed and removed from our home. we went back in and her lead level dropped to 3







she was in the clear!!! i thought maybe it was just a coincidence but then my friend's dd had high lead levels, she too only removed melissa and doug toys from her home and VOILA! lead levels dropped to the safe/normal range.
NOW, a diferent friend of mine went to her local tv station b/c they had an expensive lead testing machine and she brought a few toys including MELISSA AND DOUG and what do you know- *trace amounts of lead were found!*
now knowing it's not just a coincidence I felt like I should let everyone know!!!

i've always wondered! thanks!! when i get my notifications of recalls, i get nervous b/c of the wording---"lead exceeding the allowed amounts" or something like that. which means those trace amounts are "legal"! bye bye m&d... looks like i'll be sticking with my euro toys!


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

Rather hard for a poor mama who doesn't have any euro toys, or euros to get any.


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## Loreana (May 18, 2007)

Hi everyone, I found this thread by chance on Friday and have read through the weekend to page 18 and promise to read all the way through very soon...

This thread has truly struck a fear chord with me. Your stories are amazing, some of you have lived my worst nightmares and have been so strong and brave for your little ones. I find not only a wealth of knowledge in these posts, but also tremendous hope, courage and inspiration in your stories; specially Anoriensmom who started this thread 2 years ago and has come such a long way!!! Thank you and way to go mamas!!!

Although I am not oficially part of this tribe, I have all the risk factors and already know too much to just wait for my dd to test positive 6 mos from now. We moved to our new condo (triple decker conversion of a 1900s home) in the city 5 months ago. I was 7 1/2 months pregnant, so I wanted a lead inspection to know where our lead was (I was aware that most houses in the northeast have lead, especially houses as old as the ones we were looking at). Even though I was terribly afraid for my dd, nobody seemed to share my fear so I figured lots of children have lived in these houses for many years and not everyone shows high lead poisoning. Obviously after reading this thread I am a little bit more concerned.

I decided I can't panic just yet (although I feel like it!














and I am going to take this one step at a time, which is why I am posting today; step 1.

My immediate concern is with cleaning my house from top to bottom and delead what I can; I also want to adjust my cleaning routine to reflect some of the advice I have found in this thread and in the EPA brochures and our State Health Dept. website, which gives rise to the following questions:

First of all, is there a difference between deleading and routine cleanliness? I mean should I rent or borrow a Hepa vac and thoroughly clean everything with TSP and disposable paper towels or sponges once before I implement a rigorous but lighter routine rotation?

Now for routine cleaning questions:
1) Floors: Is wet mopping all the floors once a week enough? I currently wet mop with either wet swiffers or cloths that I then throw in the wash, do I need to get a sponge mop and a bucket?
Before wet mopping, I also vacuum all my floors with a shark pursuit canister vac with a Hepa filter, which I have now learned from this thread it is not really a Hepa vac; SOOO should I stop my vacuuming altogether or does it work for routine cleaning? I always feel I just push dirt around if I don't vacuum before mopping...

2) Wet dusting: I currently rotate rooms and wet dust everything at least once a month, does this also HAVE to happen weekly or biweekly? I use biodegradable all purpose cleaner and cloths that are then washed; do I need to use a phosphate cleaner and disposable paper towels every week? If so, why is it that the washing machine does not clean lead dust out of my cleaning cloths, but it does work for toys? I also read somewhere here that an inspector recommended baby wipes for dusting, would this work?
Also, do you wet dust ALL surfaces each week, including the top of the door and window trims, fan blades, top of cabinets and refrigerator, etc. OR is it mainly the window sills and any surfaces that you or your little ones can reach often?

We do not have soil around our property, but we do have a park (with grass) right in front of our house, should tracking in dirt from the outside be a concern for us? We try to leave our shoes at the door, but we sometimes forget.

My next steps are going to involve having dust samples taken (which were not included in the original lead inspection), having my 3 mo old dd tested (probably once she starts crawling/walking or 9 mos whichever comes first) and setting up a plan (read: what we can afford) for lead abatement with a certified contractor, starting with our biggest risk areas (whichever those may be).

I will definitely come back to ask lots of questions as I read/research more and go forward.

Thanks in advance for sharing and being soo helpful...

In case you want/need to know more this is where we are right now:
we've had a lead inspection before we bought the condo. Although there is tons of lead everywhere the inspector didn't seem too concerned. He did warn us about not remodeling/renovating anything unless we hired a lead certified contractor. We haven't done anything except paint (we did some light wet sanding of the trim to remove the glossy paint, which actually worries me more now...). In any case, I am not planning on renovating just yet. My windows are newer/vinyl, and the inspector said that reduced most of the risk. However th doors are old, don't close very well, and paint definitely chips when we open/close them.

We really can't move, I am terrified of lead abatement, since it could make it worse (not that we can really afford much, without any equity in the house or much savings), but like I said at the beginning, I'm not going to panic, and I will take one step at a time, and do what I need when I need to...

Thanks again!!!


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## jrayn (Jul 6, 2005)

i was just reading about leaded gasoline, mainly b/c dd was playing in the dirt at my grandma's house, my grandpa used to have lots of cars, work on cars, they had 5 boys who had cars, so i was wondering if this was contaminated dirt. i asked her was leaded gas used, she wasn't sure.

so, does anyone know if it was common place everywhere for leaded gas to be used before it was phased out? or was this a special gas... like that stuff they use on race cars now... nitrous oxide or whatever it is called... (the stuff that was on that movie.. fast and furious)

according to wikipedia the phase out wasn't completed until 1986.....

i would have been 5 and 6 years old... this stuff could still be all over the place around there if so!!!!!!!


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## leila1213 (Sep 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jrayn* 
i was just reading about leaded gasoline, mainly b/c dd was playing in the dirt at my grandma's house, my grandpa used to have lots of cars, work on cars, they had 5 boys who had cars, so i was wondering if this was contaminated dirt. i asked her was leaded gas used, she wasn't sure.

so, does anyone know if it was common place everywhere for leaded gas to be used before it was phased out? or was this a special gas... like that stuff they use on race cars now... nitrous oxide or whatever it is called... (the stuff that was on that movie.. fast and furious)

according to wikipedia the phase out wasn't completed until 1986.....

i would have been 5 and 6 years old... this stuff could still be all over the place around there if so!!!!!!!

My understanding is that all cars used leaded gas until they came out with unleaded. Not sure of when that was, but of course there were still older cars using leaded gas till they discontinued it in 1986. I am not yet 30 and my first car was a 72 Buick LeSabre. It took leaded gas.







:


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## harmonymama (Feb 4, 2005)

Can anyone help me interpret lead blood test results? I have an appointment with his doc at the end of the week, but I am trying to understand his result in the mean time. His result is 0.021 ug/g (its not actually u, but a funny character that I can't type). ug/g=ppm (parts per million). Does anyone know how to convert this to the results we are used to discussing (1-10+ range). In other words is this result a 2 or a 21 or what? Help. BTW this was a blood test (not fingerprick). Thanks,
Celeste


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## Loreana (May 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *harmonymama* 
His result is 0.021 ug/g (its not actually u, but a funny character that I can't type). ug/g=ppm (parts per million).

Hi Celeste, the funny charachter stands for micro and can be typed as mc (as in micrograms=mcg) . The threshold level used by the CDC is 10 mcg/dL (micrograms per deciliter) of blood.

I am not in any way a medical expert, but I believe blood is measured in volume (liters) rather than weight (grams).

So in short, I can't really answer your question but at least I can bump up the thread....


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## harmonymama (Feb 4, 2005)

Thanks, Loreana. Anyone else know?


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

it stands for micrograms per deciliter. my daughter's was 27 micrograms per deciliter, though probably higher when she was crawling, when they finally tested her she was 17 months old. i think at .02 mcg/dl you'll be fine. sorry i can't get her medical file out of her closet, they're sleeping, finally.


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## BeingMe (Oct 25, 2006)

Well I did it, I ended up doing the hair test. My 19 month old is now bald on the back of her head. I am anxious to get the results.


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## BeingMe (Oct 25, 2006)

I'm hoping someone can help me with some questions. I have a table that I believe might have lead, seeing that it came from China and has lots of different paint. Should I sand it down and repaint it, place a clear coat over it as it sits, or just get rid of it? If you say repaint or put a cleat coat, then do you have any recommendations for a paint? What should I look for in a paint so that it's safe, and will seal the lead in.
Thanks,
Shannon


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## Loreana (May 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shannyshan* 
I have a table that I believe might have lead, seeing that it came from China and has lots of different paint. Should I sand it down and repaint it, place a clear coat over it as it sits, or just get rid of it? If you say repaint or put a cleat coat, then do you have any recommendations for a paint? What should I look for in a paint so that it's safe, and will seal the lead in.
Thanks,
Shannon


I'm guessing you have a child younger than six who might chew on it? If you don't there is probably no need to worry as long as the paint is intact, but if you do, I would personally get rid of it, to be safe, but I might be overly cautious.

You could also test it with a kit found at a hardware store and check for lead.

In any case
*DO NOT SAND IT!!!!*
The danger of lead paint is the dust, sanding it inside your home (or anywhere other than a clean room, imo) can be disastrous.

There is a paint that is used to encapsulate lead paint, but it is not regular paint... I have not really researched this myself

In any case, if you are going to handle any lead paint inside your home, make sure you review the following link...

http://www.epa.gov/lead/


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

the lead inspection guys who did our house seemed to indicate that incapsulated, intact paint is not a problem. i'd coat it with the most non-toxic varnish i could find, and then watch it closely for wear. one of the things about lead paint is that the lead helped it to bond, so that non-lead paint (even what we would call low-lead paint, like some Melissa and Doug, apparently) peels easier. but we're poor, and so have to be tightfisted about some stuff. i'm going to purchase some of that soygel lead paint remover, just to have around.


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## BeingMe (Oct 25, 2006)

I got my hair results back for my daughter and I was wondering if you can take a look at them







.....
Here's a link
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...rsHairTest.jpg


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

Sorry... we did blood tests for lead. I don't know what to do with that chart. Your lead level looks fine, but I don't have any point of reference for the other metals.


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## leila1213 (Sep 15, 2006)

I can't help you either, but I can tell you I wish that were my DD's results!!


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *harmonymama* 
Can anyone help me interpret lead blood test results? I have an appointment with his doc at the end of the week, but I am trying to understand his result in the mean time. His result is 0.021 ug/g (its not actually u, but a funny character that I can't type). ug/g=ppm (parts per million). Does anyone know how to convert this to the results we are used to discussing (1-10+ range). In other words is this result a 2 or a 21 or what? Help. BTW this was a blood test (not fingerprick). Thanks,
Celeste

I'll bump you, too









We get my son's blood test results back Friday at his dr's appt and will discuss at that point. He's doing a urine test today but those results will probl. be another week out.


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gratefulmom* 
my DS had a high level when he was one.
Other than increasing iron foods, eatin vit C with the foods high in iron increases the absorption.
Also_CILANTRO
Cilantro is a natural chelator-rids the body of toxic metals. Do an online search for Cilantro Chelation Pesto. I think we did 3 T daily of the pesto. It is yummy and works.
Good luck

That is awesome!! We LOVE pesto in just about everything. Thanks


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## leila1213 (Sep 15, 2006)

Update - We had another heel stick done at her 18 MO appt and it came back a 6! I don't know whether I'm happy about this or not??? I'm so confused...


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## Kiddoson (Nov 19, 2001)

I did not read all the responses, sorry if I am asking something that is already been asked. Is any house safe from lead paint? At what age(the house)?


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kiddoson* 
I did not read all the responses, sorry if I am asking something that is already been asked. Is any house safe from lead paint? At what age(the house)?

Usually houses built after 1980 are safe.


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## mommymoose (May 29, 2004)

subbing... be back later!


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## chioma (Jul 10, 2006)

hi mommas! i wanted to give an update to those of you who were reading my posts months ago, as i was getting into the process of vacating a contaminated house. we went to stay with the older couple who opened their home to us...which was a blessing and a nightmare at the same time. they have no grandchildren of their own yet...and didn't realize how difficult it would be to have four children ages 7 and under in their home. we got there and they informed us that we couldn't use their phone, receive mail there, had no internet....etc. dh started a job training program right after we moved in, our second car broke down, so i was stuck out in the country with no way to go anywhere. but, even with all that, we hunkered down, got through christmas, then intensified our search for a new place after the first of the year. we had already looked at probably close to 20 places, none of which i would rent to put an animal, let alone my children in. we finally found a place mid-january that we were confident would pass the lead inspection, as it had been completely redone. we waited a week, then got the news, it had passed!! we moved in the first week of february. the lady we were staying with wanted us to stay at her house, after before we even went there the agreement was that we would only be there through march. she went kinda nutz when we started getting our stuff moved into the new place, being nasty to us, telling me that she couldn't believe we were leaving so fast, we could stay much longer.....god love the woman for her kind heart, but she has issues. the other good news in the midst of all that was that our dd's lead level was down to 10, which, according to the lead prevention nurse, they had not seen a kid come down so much, so quickly. i wonder if it was the cellular defense drops, or just not letting her pick and chew on the lead paint that made the difference? so....we started moving into the new place, and granted, i didn't go around flipping light switches while we were looking at it, as i was so happy with the replacement windows and intact paint that i could barely contain myself. anyhow, dh did try to check out the basement, but the landlord said that there was a problem with the light that he would have fixed before we moved in. as we started to move in the light still wasn't working, dh called the landlord and he said he would have somebody come over to take care of it. dh took his flashlight down and found that the reason there was no light was because there were no lightbulbs. then it rained. the foundation washes into the basement every time it rains. i have one child was severe asthma. not good. but dh finally got a good job (after being unemployed since last april) in a town about 50 miles from here, so looks like we are going to move again very soon. dd gets tested again at the end of this month, her lead levels should be great. she throws really major tantrums and loves to bite her twin brother, but don't know if that is leftover from the lead or just her personality.


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## sandygirl (Oct 27, 2007)

I'd like to get y'all opinion on this if possible.

DD tested at 15 at 12mo, then 17 at 14mo. At 18mo she tested a 1. Only change was she weaned to an elemental prescription formula at around 15mo or so. I'm waiting on my lead test results.

Would you think it was in my breast milk? I used to work {quit when DD was 10mo} in a 125yo building that was under constant renovation and they took no precautions against dust, etc.

If I can prove it was in my milk - WWYD? Sue?


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sandygirl* 
I'd like to get y'all opinion on this if possible.

DD tested at 15 at 12mo, then 17 at 14mo. At 18mo she tested a 1. Only change was she weaned to an elemental prescription formula at around 15mo or so. I'm waiting on my lead test results.

Would you think it was in my breast milk? I used to work {quit when DD was 10mo} in a 125yo building that was under constant renovation and they took no precautions against dust, etc.

If I can prove it was in my milk - WWYD? Sue?

I was never able to find a really strong point of research that convinced me it was my milk (my daughter was 12 mos when she tested at a level of 47). The lead/breastmilk connection seems to be higher in countries where leaded gasoline is still ubiquitous.

From the NRDC, regarding your possible exposure while lactating:

"Much of the lead in breast milk does not come from the mothers' exposure during lactation. Instead, it comes from lead stored in the mothers' bones. Because lead mimics the beneficial mineral calcium, it is stored for decades along with calcium in the bones." (Source here.)

Oh, and exposure is really hard to prove. The health department came out to test my mom's house and we really only ever got it narrowed down to "Well, it could be one of these three things, or else something that we didn't think of." I've had to come to terms with not being certain.

FWIW, my child would have to be really severely affected and/or disabled by something in order for me to sue. I'm heartbroken that this happened to her, and I pray that she doesn't have problems down the road because of it. But I think we're an overly litigious nation and I don't think I'd contribute to that atmosphere for this. Maybe if something happened to her that would require long-term care, but not this.


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## hugosmoma (Nov 19, 2001)

sandygirl,

i am so glad that you dd is down to a level of 1. that is fantastic! i'd bet that you were bringing it home with you, that'd be my best guess. lead dust from windows in old houses are a very common source of posioning, so it would be reasonable that an environment under construction would serve as a source, even if it was just coming home with you, going with the reasoning that it takes very little dust (like windows). again, so glad her levels came down so quickly.


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## leila1213 (Sep 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hugosmoma* 
sandygirl,

i am so glad that you dd is down to a level of 1. that is fantastic! i'd bet that you were bringing it home with you, that'd be my best guess. lead dust from windows in old houses are a very common source of posioning, so it would be reasonable that an environment under construction would serve as a source, even if it was just coming home with you, going with the reasoning that it takes very little dust (like windows). again, so glad her levels came down so quickly.

That's what I was going to say as well.


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## sandygirl (Oct 27, 2007)

the only thing is - I quit work in july of 2007, before any of this lead testing started {1st test sept 07 w/ level of 15, second test Dec 07 with level of 17}.

Why would her level go UP with me not bringing it home?


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## Kiddoson (Nov 19, 2001)

oops


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## jrayn (Jul 6, 2005)

DD hasn't officially been diagnosed but I suspect that she will be diagnosed with ADHD, all the signs are there and considering she had high lead levels and this is a common side effect...
A lot of people mention changing the diet due to food allergies but since this is probably as a result of high lead it seems that would be pointless (and since dd is a milk addict, it would also be pointless torture for her)

Anyone dealing w/ ADHD have suggestions on dealing w/ it, good links etc?


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## MamaMamaMama! (Sep 30, 2006)

>>Anyone dealing w/ ADHD have suggestions on dealing w/ it, good links etc?

the Autism-Mercury Yahoo! group at http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/autism-mercury/
is a good place to start; I've found some really great info there. The parents there are dealing with more heavy metals than just lead, and more problems than just ADHD, but there are a lot of people who argue that autism, ADHD, food intolerances, allergies, etc., are all connected to heavy metals in general.

One of the first things that parents in this group try is to eliminate casein and gluten from their kids' diets and some kids recover on that change alone--even the autistic ones. And I've heard over and over again that kids who are addicted to one kind of food--especially gluten and casein foods--are the ones who are most negatively affected by that food. It is definitely worth a try. My ds was addicted to milk, too, but it was easier than I expected to eliminate it, and he eats way better now that it's out of his diet.

Also the Feingold diet is good for some ADHD kids because it eliminates salicylates and food additives (especially red dyes) which have been proven to cause hyperactivity.


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## jrayn (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaMamaMama!* 
>>Anyone dealing w/ ADHD have suggestions on dealing w/ it, good links etc?

One of the first things that parents in this group try is to eliminate casein and gluten from their kids' diets and some kids recover on that change alone--even the autistic ones. And I've heard over and over again that kids who are addicted to one kind of food--especially gluten and casein foods--are the ones who are most negatively affected by that food. It is definitely worth a try. My ds was addicted to milk, too, but it was easier than I expected to eliminate it, and he eats way better now that it's out of his diet.

Also the Feingold diet is good for some ADHD kids because it eliminates salicylates and food additives (especially red dyes) which have been proven to cause hyperactivity.

That was what one person told me to do was eliminate the casein and gluten but I just didn't see how that pertained to lead, but I didn't even think about autistic children, the fact that they have elimination diets and many suspect the cause is from mercury... unrelated yet related

We don't include food additives to our diet but they do sneak in from other people that feed her or foods that she steals from other household members. I have read that any tainting of the diets will make all efforts to eliminate, ineffective.


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## MamaMamaMama! (Sep 30, 2006)

Some autistic children can eat casein and gluten again once the metals have been chelated out of their bodies, too; it's the metals (or other things like bacteria or viruses or yeast) creating the intolerance. But eliminating the casein and gluten does a lot to improve their everyday behavior. Casein and gluten proteins create an opiate-like effect in the bodies of affected children, and they literally are addicted to it.

I was really dreading eliminating casein and gluten in my family but I am sooo glad we did it. I feel awesome and I'm ten pounds lighter (and not from eating any less), my daughter went from a cranky miserable baby to a laughing happy kid, and my son's constantly runny nose got sooo much better.

Neither of my kids are autistic or ADHD, either, by the way; I think this stuff affects way more of us than most people realize.


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## MamaMamaMama! (Sep 30, 2006)

Oh and I wanted to add that anyone who gets a hair test for heavy metals done also go check out the Autism-Mercury Yahoo! group; the parents there are very knowledgeable and can lead you through the interpretation of the results better than any doctor I've found.

They also discuss chelation a lot, which isn't something I've seen mentioned on this thread (although I admit I probably haven't read all the posts!); if your child had elevated lead levels then that lead is still there stored in the bones even if they are no longer being exposed. They are following a very low and slow style protocol that is the safest one that I have found so far.

BTW they also strongly advise against cilantro as a chelator, which I noticed that some people here use from glancing at old threads. From what I understand it can be dangerous, mostly because noone has discovered what dosage is appropriate; it has the potential to set loose too much metal in your body, so much that your body can't excrete it fast enough and so it ends up getting redistributed in your body all over again. This is the reason why chelation in general is considered potentially worse than being toxic to begin with.

I hope I don't offend anyone with this; I'm just learning about all of this myself and I really found this list helpful.


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## jrayn (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaMamaMama!* 
r.

BTW they also strongly advise against cilantro as a chelator, which I noticed that some people here use from glancing at old threads. From what I understand it can be dangerous, mostly because noone has discovered what dosage is appropriate; it has the potential to set loose too much metal in your body, so much that your body can't excrete it fast enough and so it ends up getting redistributed in your body all over again. This is the reason why chelation in general is considered potentially worse than being toxic to begin with.

I hope I don't offend anyone with this; I'm just learning about all of this myself and I really found this list helpful.


What if cilantro is just a part of your regular diet? It just happens to be something that is regularly added to foods that we eat


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## AnoriensMom (Feb 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jrayn* 
I suspect that she will be diagnosed with ADHD


Oh, I am so sorry to hear this.
Some days I look at my little DD, and I wonder what all that lead did to her.
She is of course down to zero now, but it took a long time.
It is so hard to tell what is normal kid behavior and what is abnormal. I will never know what her IQ could have been.

Hugs to all of you.


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## MamaMamaMama! (Sep 30, 2006)

I honestly don't know. There haven't been any studies that I know of that actually discovered the correct dosage. It might still be dangerous, since even just a little bit of a chelator could be a big deal to a small child, and cilantro has been proven to be a powerful chelator.

I know with ALA, another chelator used mainly for mercury and arsenic, that people have been hurt by its being an ingredient in some multi vitamins, especially if they had dental amalgams. Dental amalgams are relatively stable in your teeth (although they do still leak mercury) but if you take a chelator then the metals get destabilized and you pretty much take the metal out of the amalgam and dump it into your organs and brain


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaMamaMama!* 
I honestly don't know. There haven't been any studies that I know of that actually discovered the correct dosage. It might still be dangerous, since even just a little bit of a chelator could be a big deal to a small child, and cilantro has been proven to be a powerful chelator.

I know with ALA, another chelator used mainly for mercury and arsenic, that people have been hurt by its being an ingredient in some multi vitamins, especially if they had dental amalgams. Dental amalgams are relatively stable in your teeth (although they do still leak mercury) but if you take a chelator then the metals get destabilized and you pretty much take the metal out of the amalgam and dump it into your organs and brain









Excuse my ignorance, but this has never been totally clear to me--when you talk about "chelators," you're speaking of the natural chelators that are self-administered or done through a naturopath, yes? My daughter had chelation for her lead levels, but it was chemical chelation through the hospital MD. She was on an oral dose of Chemet for 19 days.


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## MamaMamaMama! (Sep 30, 2006)

When I say chelators I am talking about anything that gets the metals out of the body. Natural or synthetic, the dangers are the same: stirring up more metals than the body can handle. Some chelators are good for you otherwise (cilantro, for example, or Alpha Lipoic Acid--ALA); others are hard on the body (DMSA, another lead chelator, for example, which is hard on the liver).

I'm not familiar with Chemet, but from what I understand this kind of chelation removes lead from the blood only--this is for current or very recent exposure, to get the blood levels down.

Lead from past exposure is held in the bones, in place of calcium. It takes a long time--years, sometimes, depending on exposure--of chelating to get the lead in your bones out. Unfortunately it is with pregnancy or breastfeeding or menopause that lead leaks out of your bones--that's the times when a woman's body would otherwise be giving up calcium, to a growing fetus or to a nursing baby. Instead of providing calcium, the body provides lead. So that makes lead exposure doubly dangerous for girls/women.


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

That makes sense.

Her chelation was the response to acute poisoning (level of 47) that had happened relatively recently, so it makes sense that the protocol was what they chose--to get her blood levels down as quickly as possible.

Is there any way of knowing how much lead was stored in her bones?


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## MamaMamaMama! (Sep 30, 2006)

From what I understand the only way is to take a chelator and watch for a reaction. People without metals in their bodies have no reaction whatsoever to the chelators; those with metals have physical symptoms.


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## Lizzo (Jul 26, 2005)

Last month, we did a finger prick lead test on both of my boys- age 3 and 10mons. The 3 yr old's test came back at 4 and the then 9 mon old came back 19. I did the arm draw yesterday and the Dr called today telling me his level was 31!!!
We are renting an appt in a VERY old house, but will be moving Aug 1st.
My mom and I just tested the whole house and it looks like the lead is only in the window areas- which makes sense because the baby loves to climb and play around them.
We blocked off that area and I have decided to only be in the house for meals and bedtime. Is that enough? Should we find a sublet until we can move to our new place?
I am really scared. My son is SO smart and advanced and it breaks my heart to think he may be brain damaged! He shows no signs of anything being wrong. His iron levels are perfect(13.5), I plan on giving him more calcium rich foods.What else can I do?
And is there a chance he can get through this without any lasting damage being done?
I need reassurance.


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## Lizzo (Jul 26, 2005)

Bumping


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## MamaMamaMama! (Sep 30, 2006)

I'm so sorry to hear about your son's lead levels. How scary







. Have you considered a calcium supplement for the next few months? Lead takes the place of calcium in your bones; they fight for the same place, so to say. It seems to me that having more than enough calcium around might ensure that less lead gets into the bones. I'm no expert, though.

All that I have been reading about has to do with chelation; I know that DMSA is approved for chelation of lead and that it's only safe to take in very very low doses, much lower than standard DAN! doctors will prescribe it. It will get the lead out of the blood and organs, though. Again the autism-mercury group on Yahoo! will have more answers than I do; if you join you can go to http://onibasu.com/ and do a search under "lead" or "blood lead levels" and see what comes up. I do know that lead stays in the blood for about three months; after that point it's absorbed into the body and even if you chelate it takes a long time to get it out. The more you can do now, the better.

Make sure you do as much wet wiping as you possibly can if you stay in the house, and get rid of any throw rugs that were underneath the windows. Vacuum the furniture, too--get as much of the dust out of the house as you can.


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## fancyoats (Jun 12, 2008)

yeah, not too happy to be joining this tribe.









my daughter was tested via finger-prick at her 9 month visit. level comes back at 14. decided to retest with a venous draw. this afternoon (3 weeks later!) our dr. called us to say that it came back at 17. i had hoped it would be LOWER, not higher. i feel like crying.

after the finger-prick, we swabbed a bunch of things in our house with the home tests, and the only thing that came up positive was our refrigerator. a very old refrigerator, possibly from the late 60's or early 70's. so we got a new fridge. oh and a new vaccuum with a hepa filter -- i had used our old vaccuum to clean up after some windows were replaced last summer (while i was pg) and it had probably been blowing lead dust all over the house for a year or more.









we also got a box of tsp, but i feel overwhelmed when i think about wiping down every surface in our house. when i feel overwhelmed, i get paralyzed, so i haven't started cleaning with it yet. i think i have been clinging to the idea that the venous draw would reveal a lower level, that the finger-prick was a false positive, that our fridge might be the only source and now it's gone.

*sigh* i am going to request a home inspection from our state's health department. our house was built in 1942, but there is no peeling paint anywhere.

do i clean with tsp before the inspection? would that negate the results of the inspection?


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:

What if cilantro is just a part of your regular diet? It just happens to be something that is regularly added to foods that we eat
I know this is an old question, but my understanding is that, unless you are very clear on what you're doing, mercury toxic people are at risk of redistributing mercury even with food levels of cilantro. I know very toxic people will feel very ill even eating small amounts of cooked cilantro, and I think I had lower level mood issues (mild depression, not dramatic) before I realized I needed to avoid it completely.

Back on topic now...


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## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fancyoats* 
yeah, not too happy to be joining this tribe.









my daughter was tested via finger-prick at her 9 month visit. level comes back at 14. decided to retest with a venous draw. this afternoon (3 weeks later!) our dr. called us to say that it came back at 17. i had hoped it would be LOWER, not higher. i feel like crying.

after the finger-prick, we swabbed a bunch of things in our house with the home tests, and the only thing that came up positive was our refrigerator. a very old refrigerator, possibly from the late 60's or early 70's. so we got a new fridge. oh and a new vaccuum with a hepa filter -- i had used our old vaccuum to clean up after some windows were replaced last summer (while i was pg) and it had probably been blowing lead dust all over the house for a year or more.









we also got a box of tsp, but i feel overwhelmed when i think about wiping down every surface in our house. when i feel overwhelmed, i get paralyzed, so i haven't started cleaning with it yet. i think i have been clinging to the idea that the venous draw would reveal a lower level, that the finger-prick was a false positive, that our fridge might be the only source and now it's gone.

*sigh* i am going to request a home inspection from our state's health department. our house was built in 1942, but there is no peeling paint anywhere.

do i clean with tsp before the inspection? would that negate the results of the inspection?


I don't have an answer to your questions but I wanted to make sure you tested your bathtub too. Most health departments don't do it and in older houses it is very likely to leach lead into the water.

I hope that the blood levels show an improvement and you will be past this soon.


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

There is a test for lead lines in the bones, its an imaging test (I recall that it's a kind of x ray but it was awhile ago that I read about it.) We didn't get it done, figuring that chronic exposure (ours) would mean definite lead lines.

Don't clean with TSP before your inspection. We had to do a major cleaning before ours, since we did not have the money for a hotel, and the baby had to be in our house. It skewed the results somewhat (and lessened the likelihood of a successful lawsuit). But we HAD to clean, the state inspector was taking so long to get there.

The onibasu searches I did a few years ago didn't to lead to much about lead poisoning, better to learn about mercury poisoning from the autism-mercury list and extrapolate. However, much of the dialogue on that list is anti-alternative medicine, as is Andy Cutler, just so you know. Which does not mean there is not knowledge there, just not enlightenment


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## fancyoats (Jun 12, 2008)

*I don't have an answer to your questions but I wanted to make sure you tested your bathtub too. Most health departments don't do it and in older houses it is very likely to leach lead into the water.*

our bathtub is newer, plastic with whirlpool jets, not one of those old porcelain enamel ones. but we do have copper pipes, so it's definitely possible that it's in the water. we are brita-filtering, and letting the water run for a while to flush the pipes.

this morning i called the health department and asked to schedule a home inspection....waiting to hear back.


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fancyoats* 
*

this morning i called the health department and asked to schedule a home inspection....waiting to hear back.
*
*
*
*
I am not telling you what to do... But I wanted to warn you if you have an inspection, and lead turns up, and down the road you want to sell..... You will have to disclose to all potential buyers that lead was found in the house and your children had elevated lead levels.

My dd had an elevated LL. We did not have the inspection for this reason. We DID find the cause with the DIY kits (an old shed in the back yard had chipped paint and we were dragging it inside on our shoes and she was ingesting it, she was a very oral baby!) We fixed the problem, and her level is now a 0. If we had an inspection, we would have had to disclose that info which is no longer an issue when we sell. That turns a lot of people off to buying a house. It is just something to think about. If it is something like an old porcelin tub, that could be an easy fix, a new plastic tub that goes over the old one. Check your window sills, any obvious paint, flower pots, etc.*


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## fancyoats (Jun 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GooeyRN* 
I am not telling you what to do... But I wanted to warn you if you have an inspection, and lead turns up, and down the road you want to sell..... You will have to disclose to all potential buyers that lead was found in the house and your children had elevated lead levels.

My dd had an elevated LL. We did not have the inspection for this reason. We DID find the cause with the DIY kits (an old shed in the back yard had chipped paint and we were dragging it inside on our shoes and she was ingesting it, she was a very oral baby!) We fixed the problem, and her level is now a 0. If we had an inspection, we would have had to disclose that info which is no longer an issue when we sell. That turns a lot of people off to buying a house. It is just something to think about. If it is something like an old porcelin tub, that could be an easy fix, a new plastic tub that goes over the old one. Check your window sills, any obvious paint, flower pots, etc.

i appreciate you perspective. we did swab all the obvious places -- windowsill, doorjambs, threshholds, etc. if you read back to my post upthread, you will see that the only thing that the swabs turned up was our super-old refrigerator. we got rid of the fridge. we have all new windows, there is no peeling paint.

2 years ago when we bought the house, we had the option to have a lead inspection done, but we signed a waiver because we saw the house had all new windows and there was clearly no peeling paint. i wasn't aware of the fact that there could be other lead sources besides windows. silly me, i didn't think to ask "hey, does that old refrigerator have lead paint?" i had no idea. i almost wish we had gotten the inspection when we bought the house. lead is a big issue in our state (rhode island actually brought a class-action lawsuit against manufacturers of lead paint and won a huge settlement....a settlement that was then overturned, but it was a symbolic victory nonetheless) almost all the buildings/homes are older and have lead somewhere in them. it's practically a given.

if the home inspection doesn't find any lead (i.e, because we have removed the source -- the fridge) would we have to disclose that our kid had elevated lead levels? i'm guessing no because in that instance, it's possible that she could have been exposed elsewhere.

blah! i hate lead.


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## Meems (Jan 8, 2007)

My dd had an elevated LL. We did not have the inspection for this reason. We DID find the cause with the DIY kits (an old shed in the back yard had chipped paint and we were dragging it inside on our shoes and she was ingesting it, she was a very oral baby!) We fixed the problem, and her level is now a 0. If we had an inspection, we would have had to disclose that info which is no longer an issue when we sell. That turns a lot of people off to buying a house. It is just something to think about. If it is something like an old porcelin tub, that could be an easy fix, a new plastic tub that goes over the old one. Check your window sills, any obvious paint, flower pots, etc.

If my child had levels that high, I would not let this issue hinder a home inspection. The most important thing is to find the source (s) and get them taken care of. The fridge may or may not be the only source... and the DIY test kits are not the most reliable way to test.


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

Yes, lead SUCKS. I hate it. The most important thing is keeping your kid healthy. It just really sucks that you may never be able to sell your house if you NEED to relocate. I freaking hate lead. Look a few pages back and see milkmommies story. She just bought her house here by me a few years ago. It sucks!!!!! You spend all your money to get a house, then surprise, your kids are sick from the lead and you cant afford to move. And there is not much you can do.


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## fancyoats (Jun 12, 2008)

well the health department called me back and apparently we are not eligible for a lead inspection from the health department unless she gets *two* blood level readings higher than 15. the fellow was super nice and talked with me for 40 minutes. most of the information he gave me was not new, however....and he said that if we were to find a private contractor to perform the inspection, they would likely just tell me to do the same exact things that he was telling me (clean with wet rags, change out the water in the bucket frequently, etc) especially since all the paint is intact, and the obvious known source (refrigerator) had already been removed.

so we are back where we started, kinda.

now all i have to figure out is how the heck am i going to clean the house while taking care of a crawling/almost-walking 11 month old?


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## superfastreader (Aug 6, 2007)

subbing--11 at 12mo







:


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## fancyoats (Jun 12, 2008)

we just got the results of the retest they did at dd's 12 month visit.........her lead level is down to a 7!!!! down 10 points in 2 months!! hooray!!







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i feel like a ten ton weight has been lifted.....what a great thing to be thankful for this thanksgiving


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fancyoats* 
we just got the results of the retest they did at dd's 12 month visit.........her lead level is down to a 7!!!! down 10 points in 2 months!! hooray!!







:







:







:







:







:







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i feel like a ten ton weight has been lifted.....what a great thing to be thankful for this thanksgiving
























:


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## yaM yaM (Nov 9, 2003)

to all the mamas & babes dealing with high lead levels.

I am confused about lead levels and wonder if anyone can lead me to a resource or two. I had my & my children's blood tested for lead back when the wooden toy paint stories were in the news (plus we live in an old house). My kids tested low, fortunately, but my doctor said that my level was "on the high side" and said it was 2.1.

Now I'm learning that "high" lead levels are much higher than 2.1 and I feel confused by the doctor's response. I can't seem to find any online charts about what is considered average and I _have_ found an article that talks about how people with lead levels higher than 2.0 tend to develop heart issues, etc. later in life.


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## AnoriensMom (Feb 13, 2005)

Testing at 2.1 does not seem high at all to me.

My daughter's first test results were 31. I know the state where we were living at the time (MD), did not provide any kind of assistance for anything under 10. And I thought I read somewhere that it is nearly impossible now to get a zero lead test result, because lead has been in so much stuff for so long. With my second child, we had already moved out of that horrible house before I was even pregnant, and his 12 month lead results just came back at 2 (or was it 3?) and the doctor didn't even bat an eye.

That seems strange to me that your doctor would be alarmed. He's not prescribing chelation is he!!!
You said your kids tested low, but you were high at 2.1. What were their results? And I am surprised that you found something saying that people develop health problems with lead levels over 2. I think they need to be much much higher than that.
So far with my daughter (now 5 yo !!) everything seems to be good.

Hope this helps.


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## abemom2 (Jul 7, 2008)

I have an appointment in 2 months with the doctor, and I'm going to ask him to test for lead for all my kids. None of my kids had it yet, and I never realized it was so widespread. In Canada......

However, my oldest had a hair test done reccently, and the lead came out to 0.93. The range is under 1. Is this considered high?

(I need to decide how to chelate- through DMSA, or homeopathhy.... because he is somewhat Mercury toxic. High Arsenic, Silver; medium aluminum, lead, antimony, tin.)

Should I be very worried already?

Thanks, Ana


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## yaM yaM (Nov 9, 2003)

Espresso ~ what were you about to post? I am not understanding your response.

AnoriensMom, thanks for your feedback. I agree with you and wonder what they were talking about at the doctor's office. I am even wondering if they even know what they were talking about as it would not be the first occurrence of them giving me erroneous information.









My kids tested at a level that was too low to detect, according to the doctor's reading, and they said that that means they are considered low.


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## abemom2 (Jul 7, 2008)

Anyone know about the levels of lead in regard to the hair test?

Thanks, Ana


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

I don't know about the hair test for lead. I've read some varying things on the 'net about it. There is definitely controversy about whether it's good for lead or not (while acknowledging that it's good for other analyses). Personally, I'd do a blood test.


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## AnoriensMom (Feb 13, 2005)

We never had hair tests done...


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## berkley (Jun 21, 2007)

I feel better than I did last night, after receiving a certified envelope from the DOH yesterday afternoon. DS (12.5mo) had a level of 10 last week.

We moved in last November after having done half the renovations in the house, did some more while living here... never cleaned like they recommend doing. Never knew we should. You just don't realize how it can end up. The pediatrician wasn't even pushing for screening but I knew we were high-risk... but no one (not even in NURSING SCHOOL!!) tells you what that means, or how to combat lead exposure.

And here I am thinking I'm being a good mom by not washing his hands all the time, letting his immune system develop, not being neurotic about cleaning...

Well now. The house is getting cleaned from top to bottom, we bought a HEPA vacuum, we're wet-mopping like crazy. We'll be changing our methods of renovation (and perhaps leave while renovations occur).

I don't know if we qualify for NY state assistance/loans/etc for lead removal, and can't find any information about it online, but I know low-income folks can qualify for it. We did a couple home tests of surfaces and found that paint we thought was OK ISN'T!!! And paint we were concerned about might not be a problem... a decent amount of peeling or chipped paint, didn't realize the dust was probably more of a problem... carpet we'd only used an awful vacuum on... ugh









We bought the house from my FIL who said he "painted over all the lead" but it appears he may have painted it over WITH LEAD PAINT







:







: :cry because he probably had some lying around. WTF. DH doesn't want to leave the city (upstate NY), can't afford to leave, can't afford to stay in our home. Don't know how much it's going to cost to cover over it or remove it, don't even know the hot areas. Scary to know it could be ONE location. And we didn't test for lead before moving in, dumb us. And didn't research it. FIL felt sick last night that his grandson might be in danger, but today he went on and on to me about how there's always "something else" that's a danger, yadda yadda yadda.







: like cigarettes (he's 83 y/o, but he QUIT smoking because he knew it was a health risk! All the chemicals and stuff he says, "I'm still here and I'm FINE!!!"

So we're making sure diet stuff is good, we've plastic-ed off unfinished areas full of construction dust, we are changing plans for re-doing the kitchen.

But man. And should DS and I be gone while we decontaminate?

Thanks for being a place to vent. I've had a profile here at MDC for over a year, but never posted. But I need it now.


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

Hugs to you. I know that sick feeling in your stomach, the guilt that you could've done something. You can't beat yourself up about it. You're doing great.

About being out of there: when Lucy had her lead poisoning, the doctor told me that, depending on what the county lead inspector said, we might have to be out of the house during the course of her treatment. There was no renovation going on in the house at the time, so that wasn't a worry. But, we were renovating _another_ house and had plans to move that month which we pushed off for six months just to be safe. My feeling is that, yes, you should be gone during contamination.


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## berkley (Jun 21, 2007)

Stacey, thanks.

things are going OK here - DS and I have been out of the house since Sunday night, DH has been home and working, as well as having 2 folks working full-time on cleaning and lead-elimination rather than renovation







I'm glad it's in progress - all carpet should be gone by now, and most o the rooms have been cleaned using the post-construction protocols (though secondary bedrooms upstairs haven't been cleaned yet).

The goal is to get lead encapsulated or removed in a couple important rooms before we move back. Rough times. I miss home. Poor DS's world has been turned upside down (though he is loving being around other kids, his schedule is all off and he's not sleeping properly - just now getting close to his normal nap schedule and getting to bed earlier than 10pm!). And in other ways, it's really going fine. just miss home, y'know?


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

Well, hang in there Sylva. Ezra is about the same age Lucy was when she was diagnosed. It's a monumental thing, but it'll end!


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## letniaLynne (Jun 2, 2006)

Hi Galls,

Just found this thread







:
My DD2 who will be a year tomorrow has tested high for lead. We had an inspection done this week also by a certified lead team (they brought that paint testing gun and took dust, dirt and water samples). It looks like it is from our chipping paint in little places all though out the house and possibly a few door inside that stick causing lead dust. Anyone else dealt with this by just spot touching the paint even though it will look horrible I just don't think we have the time or money to paint everything in total just the spots that are chipping? we will have a pocadotted house for awhile!!







:


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## Debobu (Jul 10, 2009)

Hi All,

Just fond this thread too.

I am waiting to get back results for my son's lead test and I am soooo scared I am llterally sick to my stomach.

We live in an old house with lead trim also and we decided to have 2 "clean areas" where my DS crawls/plays and we wear slippers that are only in those rooms so we don't track any paint chips (although paint is in ok condition).
Monday we decided to do a home test on the old tub where DS bathes and it came back positive. They had told me about the lead in the tub many yrs ago but it didn't really register that it would be a problem! My DH and I discussed this months ago but it just didn't register or occur to us about lead in tub going to water to toys to mouth and so on&#8230;..
We were so focused on the paint we didn't think about this (even though I am pretty obsessive about these things) and now I feel awful and stupid. I am always an "on it" kind of person when it comes to safety and I feel sooo guilty and sad I don't know what to do with myself. : (

Don't really know what to do with myself now-feeling paralized!!!!!


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

I feel terrible for you, Debobu! I didn't have to wait for my daughter's first lead test (because it was routine, and we had no inkling she'd have lead poisoning), but each subsequent one, especially the ones right after her chelation treatment, were terrible. When do you expect the results back?

Keep us posted!


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## Debobu (Jul 10, 2009)

Thanks for your concern....Tomorrow or Friday we should know.
Hoping my breast milk gave him some protection....


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

Oh, that sick stomach feeling, waiting for the lead test. You don't have to hope your breastmilk is protective. There are plenty of clinical studies that prove it. The small meals throughout the day leave Ca in the baby's stomach to bind with the lead s/he ingests, plus the baby's usually superior Fe and Ca status supply more of those to bind with any lead that gets past the stomach.


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## Debobu (Jul 10, 2009)

Thank you Stacy and Provocativa,

I have good news to report- the test came back within normal range so I am sooo thankful!!!!!My husband and I started crying in the car when we found out. We are thinking about moving...we don't want to be thinking and worrying about lead chips, etc....We'll see.

I had to undergone chelation on and off for a year when we did construction to our house and got lead poisoning myself! It is a stressful and scary process (and more so when it involves your children).

Thank you so much for your replies and support during these last couple of days and I wish you all the best and wishes for low lead levels for your babes/kids.


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## trus (Jan 8, 2009)

How can I test my son or myself for lead? I have an order for his blood work with several boxes checked, but none of them says LEAD. WHat should it say? I'd mark it myself.

Also, what are the symptoms of lead poisoning?
Thank you!


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

Ask your doctor--your paperwork might be in codes if there are a lot of tests on there.

Symptoms of lead poisoning are easy to find with a google search. Here's the first hit that came up for me:
http://children.webmd.com/tc/lead-poisoning-symptoms

PLEASE be aware, though, that not all lead poisoning is symptomatic. My daughter had a lead level of 47, which is very high and required immediate hospitalization. Yet, she didn't show any symptoms.

Here's a chart of lead levels and their interventions:
http://lead-info.com/levelschart.html


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## razzberry414 (Apr 3, 2008)

Bumping this..just got the call from DS Ped saying that his finger prick level is 15.9
his iron was 'normal' though not sure the range or level
we are off to the Children's Hospital to do the blood draw, as she says she can not rely on the finger prick to be accurate..

*BTW, I pushed to get his iron and lead levels tested because he has a speech delay at (21 months old) I saw his Ped at 16 months and pushed for the tests then, finally 2 weeks ago he was tested...needless to say I'm FIRING his Ped!
Please get your babies tested and NEVER ignore or quiet your inner mama gut


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

Totally agree. I always say that I'm the lead testing poster mom. I tell everyone about Lu's lead poisoning, because I want them to get their kids tested!

I hope everything works out well with your DS.


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## trus (Jan 8, 2009)

WHich is a way to get a little one tested for lead other than blood draw. We went for a blood draw for ferritin, iron, D, folic, B12 and then she showed me that for lead testing (which I ordered myself) it will have to be another HUGE tube even bigger than those two two she already drew. So I told her 'next time', and wrote you to see what are ways to check for lead are. I read above that finger pricking? How come they never offered it to us at the ped?


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## trus (Jan 8, 2009)

Can i buy a test kit for home testing?


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## razzberry414 (Apr 3, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *trus* 
WHich is a way to get a little one tested for lead other than blood draw. We went for a blood draw for ferritin, iron, D, folic, B12 and then she showed me that for lead testing (which I ordered myself) it will have to be another HUGE tube even bigger than those two two she already drew. So I told her 'next time', and wrote you to see what are ways to check for lead are. I read above that finger pricking? How come they never offered it to us at the ped?

My ped does a routine heal prick, which will give you a level, though if it is elevated, you need a blood draw.
We just got DS tested today and it wasn't much blood at all, actually.
Not sure why you weren't offered it yet, depends on your LO age as well, my ped routinely checks at 12 months(she never offered the test to me, her excuse was we don't vax so the only time she sees DS is for a sickness or concern, I mean....she is a major







)and 2 years old.
When did you get the iron tested, sometimes when the iron level is low they will test because your body will absorb the LEAD more if you a low on it.
Hope any of the helps


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## trus (Jan 8, 2009)

So ANY ped can do it by pricking a heel? We found out he is low on iron long time ago and were never offered a lead check. I'll call them and ask to come and get my son tested.

So if the levels are high, then they send you for a blood draw?


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

I think there are two reasons that some peds don't do heel or finger pricks. First, they're not as accurate as venous draws. Second, from what I've heard, they actually hurt more.


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## razzberry414 (Apr 3, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *trus* 
So ANY ped can do it by pricking a heel? We found out he is low on iron long time ago and were never offered a lead check. I'll call them and ask to come and get my son tested.

So if the levels are high, then they send you for a blood draw?

*Yes, if the first screening(heel prick) is high, you need a blood draw*

Quote:


Originally Posted by *staceychev* 
I think there are two reasons that some peds don't do heel or finger pricks. First, they're not as accurate as venous draws. Second, from what I've heard, they actually hurt more.

*I think PP is asking why her ped hasn't done a lead screening yet.
As far as which hurts worse, my DS is non verbal so I can not ask him, but judging by how he reacted to both, the venous draw was more painful/upsetting
The CDC's pages about lead reveal that peds do the heel prick as a way to screen every patient more easily, then if the reading is high, a blood draw. Maybe it makes it easier(cheaper) that way?*

ETA: I'm just thinking about stepping on glass on my foot and man that does hurt a lot, but if you get a bad blood draw(my veins always 'roll') it can be much more painful...apparently DS veins roll as well so he might not be the best example of pain level..


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *razzberry414* 
*I think PP is asking why her ped hasn't done a lead screening yet.
*
*
*
*
Ah, gotcha. I mis-read.

You know, from what I've read with other mamas on this board/thread, it seems like the routine lead testing is more routine in certain parts of the country than others. Maybe it has to do with how old the housing stock is?

Anyway, hope your heel feels better! Yikes!*


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## trus (Jan 8, 2009)

Thank you!


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## razzberry414 (Apr 3, 2008)

Just wanted to update: the blood draw puts DS level at 7.5, though not as high as we all feared, it is still elevated, just not enough for our state to worry about us...
We are implementing a MIC toy removal(don't have too much, just mainly Melissa and Doug)
We already are a no shoe house but my parents across the street aren't, DS spends about 50% of the time there, so now no shoes there also.
If when his food allergy test comes back that he isn't reactive to dairy, we will be adding that in to help with Calcium.
As well as washing hands when we come inside and before eating, this just is not a habit for us yet.
Retesting in 3 months to make sure it is going down...
Hope everyone is having good luck with their babies, I feel I am now a crazed LEAD FREE spokesperson. Hey, maybe I'm on to a new career path!








With mainly old houses in New Orleans, it's a big concern.


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## bigteamug (Sep 29, 2008)

Sorry, I'm not sure where to post this. But I suspect that more than a few of you have been where I am at. We have a beautiful, 1930 brick house with lead and asbestos, same as most houses of that era. Finding more out as I went along, I'm rather to the point of being petrified by fear over the icky stuff in old houses. I love old houses - there's so much more to them than most modern stuff and I realize that modern houses have their own icky factors - formaldehyde, etc, and really, most of the houses are old where we're at. I suppose that even if we found a pristine piece of land and built a "clean" house with materials believed to be safe now, that in 20+ years, many of those "safe" things would no longer be considered such.

If you have felt icky about being in your older house, esp after finding an elevated lead level in your kid(s), how do you get past it/deal with it? It is so hard because lead and asbestos dust are so dangerous, but they are invisible. Ugh.

Please, advice, a cleaning plan, anything to help find that ok place between paranoia and reasonable caution.


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

I totally understand where you're coming from, Bigteamug. When my DD tested at a level of 47, we were living with my mom in her 1960's suburban house after years of living in NYC (the lead wasn't from NYC). After ten years of being together, we had finally bought our first home, an adorable Victorian that my husband was remodeling as his second shift every night. We literally were a month away from moving in when we got our test results.

I was paralyzed. The lead was from my mom's house (almost positive), but leaving her place and going to our new home felt like jumping out of the frying pan into the fire. We briefly considered living with my dad, but decided on staying with my mom and putting off our move to our new house.

What helped? First of all, time. The day the doctor called to tell me to pack for the hospital, my heart just stopped. But, little by little, things got better. Lucy got her treatment and her levels came down quickly and steadily. The health department came to evaluate my mom's house and we're almost 100% on where she picked up the lead. We bought a vacuum that has a HEPA filter and started vacuuming and wet mopping constantly. We made sure to all wash our hands often, and added more Vit-C, calcium, and iron to our diets. All of this came from research: I got online and read a ton and learned all that I could.

DH learned, too, and we ended up staying with my mom 6 more months while he did things at our new house like take out old, lead covered molding (we lucked out and a friend in the neighborhood knew where to get matching new stuff milled). We've been in our house for 2-1/2 years and DD's levels are still good.

Speaking of levels, get your children tested. I'm assuming you're doing that, right?

Now the asbestos is another story. Where is it? Personally, I'd be much more nervous about asbestos, but that might be because it's "the devil I don't know." Can you get someone to come out and talk to you about abatement?

I know how you feel about old houses... I'm right there with you. But, you can make smart choices to make an old house safe and comfortable for your family. Being in an old house doesn't have to be a game of Russian roulette.

Good luck... sorry for the book I wrote there!


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## bigteamug (Sep 29, 2008)

Stacey, thank you for the advice. I did have my girls screened at a free test, and they will be getting the venous draw, too - DD2, 2.5, came in at 4.4. Older daughter, 7 came in with low, which just means under 3.3 - that's as low as the machine will measure. BUT, the house we rented before we bought this one was older and had paint in MUCH worse shape, so I'm rather horrified that I waited so long to test - whatever she picked up there has probably already disappeared into her system - and then I wonder about the charm on a little purse that I caught DD2 chewing on when she was a baby. DD2 has always grown less the Dr liked, and I just am left wondering how much she was exposed prior to now, as poor growth and speech delays are symptoms. I know these are minor exposures compared to what many have dealt with, but we haven't even moved into the upstairs yet, where most of the issues will be.

As far as asbestos - the house had vermiculite, which we had removed (there were some issues with the removal, which I hope were all dealt with). But, like lead, asbestos abatement removes a lot of the issue, but doesn't eliminate it. Otherwise, we have some of the wrapped up pipes, some questionable ceiling tiles in the basement, and some other stuff, most of which appears to be sealed up well, aside from some textured ceilings. We will have the plaster and other stuff tested soon, too. Sadly, there is no easy way to check for asbestos exposure - maybe they could take a chunk of your lung, I suppose. And back then, it was used in so much stuff, like lead.

I guess what really freaked me out is that I had those tests done _before_ we had work done. And I started to realize that old houses have history, it is hard to know what work was done before that may have contaminated things in terms of lead dust or asbestos. All it takes is one uneducated person, and poof! - you have an invisible issue.

It just adds to the whole old house money thing. And we just don't have money to move out while work is done. The guy will come out with the x-ray gun next week, and do dust wipes and soil tests - the city here has a grant, so that is free. Sadly, we are about $500 over the income limit to get help doing the lead abatement from the same grant.









I guess it is also hard that I have always struggled with housekeeping and now it is needful.

Sorry for my book, too, but info is good, and maybe someone down the line will get good info from the conversations.


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## alacrity (Oct 25, 2008)

I was told to look here because lead paint was found in my apartment. As soon as I moved in I requested a lead inspection. The inspector found lead paint in the door frame of our front door which is cracking and chipping in huge squares hanging off of the door frame but I see none on the door step.

My landlord keeps saying he will paint over it but never has. He is supposed to come tomorrow but now I am getting nervous that since he is not trained maybe he should not paint over it. As you all under stand it is making me sick and paranoid. In my mind everything is contaminated although I know it is not... my daughter LL was 3.3. Which is not shocking but still we had only lived here a month then. She is going to be retested next month.

So should I have him paint over this for now? It takes up to a year for the city to come in to fix it and until then I am freaking out. We have to walk through this doorway every day and I have everyone take off shoes before entering but I still wonder how much gets tracked in because the kids have to bring the shoes in the living room to put them on because the entryway is only a tiny space.

Our windows also contain lead on the outside and there are coal shoots also in violation. There is also chipping paint in the basement I am concerned about but won't know until next year when they come to fix everything.

I am so tired of stressing about this.

I am a single mom and I babysit two kids full time and I am constantly stressed about this lead paint stuff. I keep getting migraines and they are starting to make life difficult. I keep telling myself to relax that it is out of my hands but oy. I am sure you understand. They cannot fix this fast enough.

So... Do you think I should have him paint over it tomorrow? If so he says he "has some paint of the same color" he is just gonna slap over it.







He was furious when I had the place inspected and is not happy with me at all. So getting him to spend money to temporarily fix it is not helping. Will any paint work temporarily? I keep googling but i am getting mixed answers. I can guarantee that he is not goingto run out and buy special paint for this.

I can only find special rules for scraping but none for painting over chips without scraping. I DO NOT want him scraping. I know that much.

My daughter is 11 months old, still breastfed, and now taking an iron supp. I am going to speak to her doctor next month about any further suggestions. She is a holistic family practitioner but this will be our first visit to her we fired our last doctor.

This is rambly. sorry. it is late and my daughter is sick so my brain is loopy.


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## radiowave (Jun 29, 2007)

to the mama in St. Louis who discovered lead in her apartment: do you know what, if any, regulations your city or state has for what the landlord's responsibility is when it comes to lead paint? In Maryland, landlords are required to pay for painting to be done by certified people wherever it is chipping, before a new tenant moves in and whenever a problem is found...but it can be difficult to enforce...if you are able to contact the city about this they might be able to tell you. I totally understand the stress factor. We moved into a new place when our daughter was tested two months ago and had a level of 4, but then found lots of chipping paint in the new place after we moved in. We've had lots of work done, but I don't know if it is enough, and feel constantly stressed and confused about how much to do, how often to clean etc.


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## alacrity (Oct 25, 2008)

He put us on a list to have the city fix it which can take up to a year. I am not even sure if we are on the list yet. He said there was paperwork to do. So who knows. But even if we are on the list nothing will be fixed until sometime next year.

Of course, he did not show up to day AGAIN to paint over the chipping paint. I am not even sure if it is okay for him to paint over it but he will not pay someone to paint over it and the city will not force him to since he is supposedly cooperating to get us on this list.

so i am stuck here and in the meantime every time we walk through my doorway we are probably tracking in invisible lead dust on our feet and it rubs when i open and close the door too. I have no way of knowing how bad it is and the wait time is killing me.


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

Alacrity,

I'd keep on him to paint it because it's better than nothing as you wait for the city to come in. Then, I'd keep on him big time about getting the city in.

I don't know what your apartment is like, but is there a little bit of open space, or a front hall where you come in? I'd mark off a small space as a lead zone: Put a shoe rack there for taking shoes off when you come in the house. Look up whether or not a door mat inside is a good idea. And be extra vigilant about vacuuming with a HEPA vac if you can afford it and mopping with at least two buckets if not three so that you're not just dragging wet lead-dust-water as you mop. I'd also only use that mop water for your marked off section.

FWIW, we got our HEPA vac (an Electrolux Oxygen) on Overstock for about 1/2 what it sells for retail. Just make sure you use the HEPA bags because some vacs can do HEPA, but the bags that make it really self-contained are extra money.


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

the BEST thing for him to do is paint over the paint, asap. a high bonding primer would be great. then clean the surrounding floors and walls several times. as for the city, you could try calling other agencies- like if you called tenant services, then call the health department. funding here in the local health dept. for lead is around some years, sometimes not- depends on if anyone on staff is qualified and applies for a federal grant (which they would automatically get- if the qualified individual is there). but the state environmental agency is always funded, and that's who does the lead inspections. so here, the state lead inspector could be wrong about the local tenant law easily. at epa.gov you can find information to have sent to your landlord. has the apt. been inspected by the building code enforcement people, or just lead paint people? if there were other hazards in the apt it might get you out of your lease. there is a national law about the necessity of landlords informing tenants of lead paint. depending on the legal climate there that might get you out of your lease, too. Also, even though it takes a year for the city to go in and do lead abatement, your landlord is probably required to paint over it ALL right away, not next week.

you need extra Ca, Mg, Fe, Se, and Zn along with the vitC. . . small meals throughout the day and frequent breastfeeding help prevent absorbtion.


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## alacrity (Oct 25, 2008)

I wish I could afford a vacuum with a HEPA filter. i don't even own a vacuum and I just applied for food stamps last week. :/

It has been fully inspected by the city and the lead inspector from the city. I have looked up all the laws and have been in contact with Lead Safe St. Louis several times.

He keeps saying he is coming out every weekend because he can't on weekdays because he works then he no shows every time. Honestly I do not even trust him to do it since he is not even buying the right paint but no one I call is of any help since he has completely complied with their rules so far. He only has to fill out paperwork which he has done. It has been a couple months already and not a darn thing has happened.

I am giving her an iron supplement but not anything else and she eats table food but I guess I need to look up how to get her those other vitamins. She does not eat a whole lot of food.

I also just realized that although I do not open and close my windows my upstairs neighbors do and their windows are right above my porch and lawn and front entryway.

He did not inform me about the lead paint IN FACT he told me that he did not know of any but that everything will be painted over and had been painted over, etc, and that it was safe. Then when I told him the lead inspector found lead paint he started screaming at me "I TOLD YOU THERE WAS LEAD PAINT HERE BEFORE YOU MOVED! YOU KNEW THIS PLACE WAS A HAZARD!" I told him outright he was a liar but it is my word against his. He is getting a fine from the EPA but he does not know it yet but that does nothing for my daughter now. I hate the way this system works. It is so slow.


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## alacrity (Oct 25, 2008)

My landlord came by to paint over the lead paint that was chipping and dry scraped it all over my front porch and entryway. i have no vacuum and no idea what to do.


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## gentlemango (Jun 17, 2006)

Porch: buckets of water or a hose, wash it away.
Entry way: wet paper towels or baby wipes, wipe up the flakes, damp mop everything down & throw away the wipes. Wipe it all down again w/ fresh wipes. Damp mop with water and dish detergent. Then damp mop the rest of your floors inside. That will take care of everything.

Level of 4 is not a big deal, but have her tested again ASAP to make sure this isn't causing a big spike. If her level is over 15 the state will get involved and they will take care of all the landlord issues for you.


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## alacrity (Oct 25, 2008)

I was told it is not okay for me to do any of that if I am nursing her. I super mopped the entire house with towels instead of my mop and threw away the towels. I usually use method stuff but was told I have to use different cleaners for lead. Does anyone know if **** N Span has the special ingredient? Or is it only Pin Sol?

She has a doctor's appointment (her 1 year) on November 2. Is that too long to wait? I was thinking that would be okay.

I am hoping that the city will give me a HEPA vac ASAP and that I can find someone to vacuum it up.

thanks. I hate lead paint.


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## gentlemango (Jun 17, 2006)

Call your state lead hazard dept. and ask about borrowing a vacuum. The cleaner you want to use has phosphates, like Dawn dish detergent.

I know it's scary. But you are talking low numbers & a small area of contamination. Clean, take a shower, live your life, don't worry about it.

Nov 2 is fine. A blood lead test is a snapshot of the past 30 days of exposure.


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## alacrity (Oct 25, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gentlemango* 
I know it's scary. But you are talking low numbers & a small area of contamination. Clean, take a shower, live your life, don't worry about it.

Thank you. I needed to hear that. As ridiculous as it sounds. I just have no one hear to say anything like that to me.

Funny even the people at the lead safe office had no idea what history the lead test shows. that is good to know.

Oh and I called the city and left a message. I have been on the wait list for a HEPA vac for a while. Hopefully it will come soon.


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## smeisnotapirate (Aug 24, 2007)

Joining. DS (20mo) just tested at an 18 and our FP recommended having Early Intervention and we just called our neighborhood lead prevention hotline to see about grants. We live in an almost 200yo house, so I'm pretty sure WHY his levels are high. We're just really overwhelmed and want to get rid of this paint and get his levels down ASAP.


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

I think a typical reaction to a diagnosis of lead poisoning is feeling overwhelmed. That, and guilt. Don't be too hard on yourself.

How long has he been exposed? Is there a developmental reason your FP has seen that would require early intervention? Just asking, because DD was diagnosed with a level of 47 at 14 months, and at age 4.5 is actually pretty much ahead of the curve on all of her milestones.

Hugs, mama. Let us know if there's anything we can do to help... there's a lot of experience and knowledge hanging around this thread.


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## smeisnotapirate (Aug 24, 2007)

Yeah, definitely dealing with the guilt here, especially DH.

We bought the old house last April. DS's lead levels were fine before that (we have him tested regularly because DH works on pipe organs, with lead pipes). We've been refurbishing the house, and have tried to be really conscious about lead (we only moved into the house in October because we wanted to do as much as possible without living in the house). We've kept DS outside when we were doing work over the summer, and have put down new floors in the kitchen and bathroom and carpeted all the bedrooms. We've been covering all the paint in the house with new paint, but the process is slow.

I guess PA just recommends Early Intervention for anything over 15, so I agreed. DS originally got blood tested because we're suspecting some food allergies, but his abdominal pain could be tagging along with elevated lead levels from what I'm researching.

It's good to hear your DD is normal. That makes me feel a lot better.

Right now, I'm just wondering about how to reduce his lead levels. We're getting on top of the environmental stuff, but I'm wondering if there's specific nutritional or supplement things we should be doing to stay on top of this.


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

You definitely want to be maxing out vitamin c, calcium and iron. Other than that, I can't help you, because DD had chemical chelation.


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## dollyanna (Jan 29, 2008)




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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *staceychev* 
You definitely want to be maxing out vitamin c, calcium and iron. Other than that, I can't help you, because DD had chemical chelation.

Stacey, when you say chemical chelation, do you mean with something like Chemet?

http://www.rxlist.com/chemet-drug.htm

I just wanted to add a resource for people wanting/needing to use DMSA, the chemical in Chemet (it's also available non-prescription). The autism-mercury yahoo group discusses how to use DMSA on their website, it's obviously good for lead, but it also helps with mercury, for those dealing with that--more chronic toxicity than acute for that one.


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

Yes, Chemet, exactly, Tanya. That's what my daughter was prescribed.


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## bigteamug (Sep 29, 2008)

I did post this in Family Safety, but I'm hoping to get a little more info. I do not want to make the wrong decision on this:

We have an old patio out back that we now know to have lead paint - it is not flaking or peeling, just wearing off. The patio has some cracks, but is not in awful shape otherwise.

I had the girls tested last fall (after they played back there for a good chunk during the summer) and it's not awful. - 4.4 for the little one, and "low" for our big girl (better than I hoped for).

But now the warm weather is coming and they want to be outside. One of the local lead testing consultants told me that painting over it and keeping the paint in good repair is good enough....now, first off, that is difficult - it means that we can't have furniture there, or have the girls ride things there, because it will wear the top coat, right?

I guess what I'm wondering is

a)if you painted over it and didn't let them ride toys on it or scratch it, would you be ok with your kids (7 and 3)playing on such a patio?

b)I'm thinking that in the long term, we'll have to demo it (very carefully) and put down a new surface. I did ask a local concrete guy, and in our harsh winter climate, you can't just put a fresh layer on concrete over the top - it won't last. What do y'all think?

Other thoughts?

Thanks!


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

Containment is actually a very viable strategy for handling lead paint. You need to look for specific kinds of floor paint, which does not chip or wear easily. You want a color which opposes the one you have, so that any wear is readily apparent. There is also specific concrete paint, which should have decent wear ability. One can also buy products like marine varnish for over the paint- very thick and water resistant (but obviously not designed for concrete). You will want quite a few coats. And then, put sliders on the furniture. I would let them ride toys on it and everything (rubber wheels don't scratch as much as hard plastic), but mop frequently with a phosphate containing cleaner like **** and Span or Cascade to bond with possible lead- not Dawn liquid dish soap, which does not contain phosphates. You can buy TSP- tri-sodium-phosphate, which is made for lead clean up. Rinse away the phosphate cleaner- phosphates are poisonous to us and the planet.


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## alacrity (Oct 25, 2008)

Any advice on obtaining a HEPA vacuum that would be helpful with wood and tile floors and also carpets? I have very little to spend. I am a single mom and don't make much babysitting but I would feel better if I had a good vacuum.

They painted over some of the paint in our windows and door casing but it is already coming apart on one area outside. They tested our home and most areas were 20 parts per square foot. Which is half the acceptable amount but higher than I would like it to be.

Any tips?

ETA: If I get a vacuum I have to purchase it online because I do not drive.


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

alacrity- Well, it is unlikely you will afford one of the fancy ones mentioned earlier in this thread. I got a factory reconditioned HEPA vac from Big Lots- it works fine - so you might search for such and see if anyone does similar work near you. Shipping will be so costly- so you might look for ship-to-store opportunities or call vacuum repair shops. I live in substandard housing, and I just keep paint and foam brushes ready in my pantry, and touch up all the time.

bigteamug, it occurred to me after posting that you could put down bonding primer, or similar, and then put asphalt tar or similar over it and nothing would get through that. Maybe I don't understand how big the patio is, but couldn't you just do a new layer of concrete every couple years?


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## alacrity (Oct 25, 2008)

Are there any vacuums under $150 that would do the job or does it have to be one of the expensive ones? Even if I found a vacuum at a local shop I would have no way of getting it home with the kid and no car it would be impossible so shipping is my only option. I am pretty good at finding deals online or free shipping if I know what is good enough.


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## alacrity (Oct 25, 2008)

http://www.amazon.com/Eureka-4870MZ-...2043377&sr=8-1

Any way to find out if this is acceptable?


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## ~D~ (Aug 10, 2008)

just giving this thread a


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## 4lilfarmers (Feb 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *smeisnotapirate* 
Yeah, definitely dealing with the guilt here, especially DH.

We bought the old house last April. DS's lead levels were fine before that (we have him tested regularly because DH works on pipe organs, with lead pipes). We've been refurbishing the house, and have tried to be really conscious about lead (we only moved into the house in October because we wanted to do as much as possible without living in the house). We've kept DS outside when we were doing work over the summer, and have put down new floors in the kitchen and bathroom and carpeted all the bedrooms. We've been covering all the paint in the house with new paint, but the process is slow.

I guess PA just recommends Early Intervention for anything over 15, so I agreed. DS originally got blood tested because we're suspecting some food allergies, but his abdominal pain could be tagging along with elevated lead levels from what I'm researching.

It's good to hear your DD is normal. That makes me feel a lot better.

Right now, I'm just wondering about how to reduce his lead levels. We're getting on top of the environmental stuff, but I'm wondering if there's specific nutritional or supplement things we should be doing to stay on top of this.

our pedi recommended using http://www.bioraynaturaldetox.com/ (NDF...and Liver Life, if needed based on his pH levels)... I can't tell you if it worked or not, as his blood levels were already ok by the time we did the chelation and we didn't do a 6hr urine sample before the chelation, just afterwards. BUT...it was nice to be able to try a chelation that was herb/mushroom based. And our pedi has used it often with kids that had other heavy metal issues (mercury especially) with great success.

(to let you know--ds had level 21 three months after exposure (we believe)...so who knows how high it was to begin with...

otherwise, like others said--push iron and calcium.


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## cyclamen (Jul 10, 2005)

Hello,

I've read through many pages of this thread, still working through the rest.
My daughter had a venous draw just about a month ago (at 1 yr age) and her result was 4.3. I know this is not much, and the Dr was not concerned&#8230; However&#8230; WE were concerned. We mentioned it to our landlord since our lease was coming up, and she came over. We talked about getting a grant from the city to test/replace the windows totally, but in the mean time she was really concerned and wanted to paint. Sounds great, right?

Well&#8230; we moved the stuff out of our bedroom and she started there. She was hacking and dry scraping the sills, no dropcloth, paint chips going on to the carpet, etc. After a shocked moment, I handed her a spray bottle of water and asked her if she'd like to use it. So she sprayed down the sills. My boyfriend and I then reconsidered and asked her to just stop what she was doing. She insisted on painting all the sills (she stopped scraping, thank goodness, just went right over the peeling paint), and then she vacuumed up the paint ships with what she claimed was a HEPA vac. I do not know if it was, it was a big shop vac with a bag inside and then a filter on top. I know she meant well.

I left the house with the baby while the paint dried, and then when we came home, we just shut the door to that room and have not gone in since.

We will be moving at the end of the month. I am a little (ok A LOT) perturbed, since I went to some lengths not to disturb the paint on the windows. I am wondering if we should ask for another lead test for our daughter.

Also, I would like some advice on seeking a lead-safe home. We were looking for a place with new windows and doors and hardwood floors which would be easier to mop and keep clean vs the carpet we have now. Our three requirements are that the place be affordable, in a safe neighborhood, and lead safe.

We just talked to one landlord who has a house that apparently was totally remediated after his own daughter had a lead test high enough that the health department got involved. The exterior paint was apparently lead, but it was encapsulated.
Would this be a good place to move into because we know it's been remediated? Or bad, because, for instance, the soil around the house is probably contaminated? What sort of documentation should we hope to get from the guy? I haven't talked to him, but my boyfriend said the guy sounded like he was going to cry when he was talking about his daughter.

If we should keep looking&#8230; do we look for houses with stone exteriors, new doors, new windows, and not even ask about the lead paint? I feel like I can't really trust landlords to know what they are talking about, so what should I know? Most places in my city are not lead tested. They just give you a sheet that says, "This house was built before 1978 and probably has lead." But maybe it's different renting with children? There is a big public health push in our city to deal with lead, and a lot of grants for landlords to do remediation.

I just don't want to move from an ok but concerning situation to a really bad one. We are of course taking the usual steps of washing more, and being super clean. I have not been back to her usual playground, either.

I just don't want to wait until she has a big problem (10+ level) to do something.


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## cyclamen (Jul 10, 2005)

Also I have searched high and low for a phosphate containing cleaner. There is none. Even the TSP at the hardware store is phos free. So we got simple green.


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

There's no harm in asking for another lead test, especially if it will give you peace of mind. I highly doubt your landlord will get a grant for a 4.3 lead level. My daughter, too, was high enough to get the county involved (level of 47--immediate hospitalization), and still, any remediation done was done by my mom (DD's was poisoned while we lived in her house).

I can't offer you any advice for finding a new place to live, only that you should continue to research and know that the insane fear does start to wear off a little bit so that you will feel like it's safe to take your little one out in the world. It's hard to get over it--DH still asks to get DD's lead levels tested every time she has a temper tantrum (I'm like "Um, have you met your father? Wonder where she gets it?"), but you do lose that sort of panicky feeling.

I think you're probably OK not using a phosphate detergent. There seem to be some new studies that support the idea that non-phosphate detergents are just as effective. Definitely use the 2 or 3 bucket method, though.


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## cyclamen (Jul 10, 2005)

Thanks, staceychev!

Lucky us, in our city, any apartment with children under 6 in it is eligible for grants as long as they meet income requirements (which we do), regardless of BLL. I guess it is probably a lower level priority. They are really pushing prevention here which is good.

But I just don't trust my landlord (who is really nice! but!) after I watched her scrape the paint in my bedroom. It's easier for us to just move.


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## pumpkingirl71 (Jul 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cyclamen* 
Well&#8230; we moved the stuff out of our bedroom and she started there. She was hacking and dry scraping the sills, no dropcloth, paint chips going on to the carpet, etc. After a shocked moment, I handed her a spray bottle of water and asked her if she'd like to use it. So she sprayed down the sills. My boyfriend and I then reconsidered and asked her to just stop what she was doing. She insisted on painting all the sills (she stopped scraping, thank goodness, just went right over the peeling paint), and then she vacuumed up the paint ships with what she claimed was a HEPA vac. I do not know if it was, it was a big shop vac with a bag inside and then a filter on top. I know she meant well.

We will be moving at the end of the month. I am a little (ok A LOT) perturbed, since I went to some lengths not to disturb the paint on the windows. I am wondering if we should ask for another lead test for our daughter.

I just don't want to wait until she has a big problem (10+ level) to do something.

I am so sorry our landlord went about things so poorly. Personally (I am a landlord myself) I think you should get a sense of her before you decide to move. She sounds great but really ill informed. Do you think getting her some more info would help? I don't know what state you are in, but here is MA this a very tricky legal issue. Even getting the windows done is tricky, since there hasn't been a lead inspection. I just know that here, it is pretty hard to rent with children due to lead laws. It is technically illegal to discriminate, but it happens all the time.


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

alacrity, I have a Eureka hepa vac, different model than the one you posted. I have no idea if it works 'okay' compared to the standards of the mamas who say only a certain special vac will do. That sort of talk is simply irrelevant to my life. I am poor; my car cost $1, how can I spend 600 I don't have on a vacuum? It has worked well for years, though it dh bent something in it and i have to replace the belt once every few months.

cyclamen, cascade dishwasher detergent has phosphates. **** and Span cleaner used to.


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## JBV (Sep 25, 2010)

I actually read through this entire thread! I can understand the fear and the heartache expressed by so many here and it feels so good to find moms that care so much about their children.
My story may not be very extreme but I will forever be terrified of lead! In 1999, while pregnant with first ds, we bought our first home. It was built in 1953 and was close to my parents and friends. We felt we had hit the jackpot. I had no idea about lead hazards and was too young and naive to realize that lead could be an issue in our home. I breastfed both my boys and was super vigilant about their nutrition, their exposure to chemicals (eating organic etc.) but never knew about lead. Both ds#1 and later ds#2 were wee ones when we remodeled the kitchen and painted the entire interior of the home. We also replaced or refinished all the flooring. It was not until I was pregnant with ds#3 and we had lived there for eight yrs that I read about lead paint and immediately bought a lead check kit from Home Depot. I swabbed our window casings and the test was positive for lead.
After crying my heart out I tested all our blood lead levels and the results were levels of only 1 for each of us. 1, although really low, still meant we were being exposed to lead somehow since 0 is best, and that was horribly scary to me. We did not open our windows again and started cleaning recommendations. It was horribly stressful to constantly be cleaning like that!







.
We found out that to replace the windows safely we would have to pay an exorbitant amount and I did not want to risk doing it ourselves. We decided to move instead and although the process of selling the home took two years, all our levels stayed at 1 the entire time we were there. We now live in a lead safe home built in 1995 out in the 'burbs but I confess I am still terrified of lead. We do not visit certain friends that we know have homes with chipping lead paint because of the fear our boys will be harmed and I test almost everything we buy for them.
I will never really know the levels my oldest two boys had while we did different things to the house when they were younger. We were so ignorant about the issue. I cringe when I think back to how I sat and watched while Dh and some friends tore out the old carpet when we first moved in, it had so much dust and I was eight mths preg with ds#1! The guilt sometimes really overwhelms me. On a more positive note ds#1 who is the one that MIGHT have been exposed the most is now 10 yrs old and is quite wonderful. He is intelligent, sensitive and caring. He does not have any issues with hyperactivity or impulse control in the least and acts very mature for his age. He does not have problems with his temper, is very obedient and easy going. Ds#2 now 7 yrs old is also intelligent (a young math genius) and has no other issues whatsoever. I try to focus on this and try not to think of what might of happened.
I really hope everyone can resolve their situations soon and I look forward to reading updates.


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## estherm (Feb 20, 2011)

Reviving this thread as I have just joined this tribe.....ahhhhh.

I have read a lot of the thread but would like to spend most of my time cleaning instead of reading 

My 15mo son tested had a venous test and it came back at 20 in early August. We just had the house tested and we have high levels of lead in most of our woodwork, windows, doors and stairs as well as exterior. We cannot afford to completely delead so we will have someone remove and replace most of what tested positive.

I am trying to come up with the best plan...so far I have...

Diet:

-Lots of calcium and iron(with vit c)

-Iron Supplements (recommendations?)

-Organic Cilantro

-Organic Kelp

Cleaning:

-Tack cloth to clean windowsills (and throw it out)

-TSP/Simple green to "wet" clean

-HEPA Vacuum (don't know if we can afford that one yet...)

-Use clear tape on peeling paint

Anything else I can do???

Has anyone here had an inspection, been mandated to make changes and not received funding? We are talking at least 50k to delead this house, so what if we don't qualify for funding?

Thank you!


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## 1love4ever (Jan 5, 2011)

PP, I never even thought about this and I am very concious of these types of things. Was your DS having symptoms or anything, what made you choose to get him tested? Did you see a naturopath or regular MD to have the test done? Did they check for other contaminants as well? Are the things that tested positive in your house pretty old things?

I am really sorry you are having to go through this and I am sorry I can not offer much advice! But, I do like this vitamin even though it does not have high amounts of some of the nutrients you are wanting. http://www.gardenoflife.com/ProductsforLife/THEVITAMINCODEsupsup/MultivitaminFormulas/KidsFormula/tabid/1995/Default.aspx

I also recommend raw goats milk if its available to you, you might have to do some hunting for it! I have a friend who mixes organic molasses into her DDs goats milk for the iron and calcium, among other nutrients that it contains. Goats milk is higher in calcium, phosphorus, magnesium, and protein than cows BTW, that is one reason why I prefer it. (it does have some vitamin C as well It is also close to human milk and its fats are more easily digested than cows (especially if you buy homogenized store milk) Here is a link of its nutrient analysis, and remember heat treated milk from the store is depleted of its nutrients and beneficial enzymes. http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrientprofile&dbid=56

Other than all that I would say LOTS of organic fruits and veggies.


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## BBroyard (Apr 24, 2012)

Hi there.

I too am unfortunately a member of this tribe. I also happen to be a journalist and am trying to use my own experience to get the word out (again) about lead, since, like many people on this thread, my DS was lead poisoned mostly through my lack of knowledge, despite my best efforts to educate myself about and protect my children from all the various hazards in the world.

I am working on an assignment from a major national parenting magazine about lead poisoning, mostly related to cases of lead-based household paint. I am including my own story--we live in a 130 year old brownstone in Brooklyn--but I need parents from other parts of the country and/or who live in newer houses, so readers will understand that it can happen to them too. As this thread proves, this tribe lives all over the country and not necessarily in houses 100 plus years old. If you are willing to participate, please send me a PM or email me at [email protected] at your earliest convenience.

As for my story, we think my DS was exposed from the dust created from opening and closing the windows in his bedroom. I knew to encapsulate the paint on the inside, but I didn't repaint the outside frame, since we were planning on replacing them as soon as our home loan came through. Very painful lesson learned. His veinous draw two years ago at his one year well visit was 18. We've finally gotten it to five. And we're still trying to get all the lead out of our house, since abatement is so darn expensive, and are relying on interim measures in the meantime. I don't need to tell you all about the anxiety and guilt from wondering what the long term effects will be.

Thanks. And I hope you will contact me.


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## dinahx (Sep 17, 2005)

Hi Mamas! We are about to move into an Apt built before 1978. My oldest had a level of 5 @ one year altho we have no idea how he was exposed.

The apartment is carpeted & was just painted over with VOC Free paints. Our plan is: leave windows alone. Remove any questionable doors. Have family sleep in room without painted windows. Test water (IDK how?) but also perhaps install a carbon based filter. Buy all drinking & cooking water (really cheap locally, we would do this anyway to avoid Fluoride). Give children Calcium & Floradix daily. Buy HEPA vac.

Anything I am missing? This plan is probably only for 6-9 months, while our house is on the market. I *wish* we could test before move in but I don't see how, I heard the Lowes kits are not reliable for this.

I would love some insight! Thx mamas!


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## TKC2011 (Jan 13, 2013)

Hi Everyone,

I am hoping to revive this thread because it is the most informative one I have found on the treatment of lead poisoning in children.

Last Tuesday, my son had his 1 year well-visit. His finger prick blood test showed a BLL of 84. My pediatrician told us not to panic; that it was possibly a lab error due to the very high number. She suggested we have a regular intravenous blood draw within a week. No true sense of urgency there.

My husband and I did plenty of online research that night and deduced that a false high of that magnitude would more than likely mean his BLL would still be very high. Why couldn't our pediatrician figure that out?

We had him retested, and his BLL is 54.

We suspect the culprit is the very old farmhouse we were living in; we moved our son out of that house and are now staying with the in-laws.

Tomorrow we have a follow-up appointment with our pediatrician to figure out a course of action. Again, no sense of urgency from the medical center.

We bought foods recommended for natural chelation. I'm very worried about the propsect of lead chelation or lead chemotherapy. Our son appears symptomless, but will there come a time when his body just breaks down before our eyes? What is his long-term prognosis? Could he turn out just fine? I wish I could read stories of children who had high BLLs who are now doing incredibly well in school.

My husband and I are well-educated, intelligent people. I don't know why we were so naive about our living quarters. We were living there for free, trying to bide our time to find the perfect new house for us. I am now pregnant and must say I am less than thrilled about having a second baby now; it's hard to be excited when this unborn child may possibly be exposed to lead. I will get my blood test tomorrow to see what my levels are...

Hoping to hear from others. Thanks.


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## baileyblack (Jan 15, 2013)

I am just discovering this thread today and am so grateful! I've been feeling devastated about my daughters' lead levels, and alone in my feelings. It helps so much to know I'm not alone, though I wish with my whole heart that none of us was going through this at all!

TKC2011, like you, my husband and I consider ourselves fairly intelligent and well educated, and we have always been very careful and mindful about toys, foods, cleaning products, etc. regarding toxicity. So I was shocked when at her 9 month appointment in October, my daughter's lead level came back at 11, and at 12 months in January, it came back at 8 - lower, but still too high. My older daughter also had her 3 year lead test in January, which came back at 3, up from <1 a year ago.

We did a major renovation on our house and moved back last June, about 7 months ago. We knew there was some lead in a big picture window, but we had the window replaced during renovations, and pretty much everything else in the house except the hardwood floors on the first floor was either replaced or is brand-new. So it seemed impossible it could be the house, but we couldn't think of anything else, so we contacted a lead inspector. What we've learned that we should have done is to get the house professionally cleaned of any lead dust before moving back in - particularly in the basement. We're doing that now while the kids are with their grandparents, and getting everything retested and recleaned until no lead is detected, but I'm really feeling awful about the elevated levels in my girls and the potential long-term side-effects. In particular, I'm feeling awful about the fact that we caused this by renovating the house and being ignorant about lead-cleaning it before moving back in.

TKC2011, I too am anxious to hear stories of kids who were exposed at a young age and later turned out to be more than fine. I really just want to hear that everything will be OK - just like everyone else on here, I would guess!

Big hugs to everyone here,

Heather


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## TKC2011 (Jan 13, 2013)

Hi Heather (and anyone else who is following),

We met with our pediatrician, and my son had an x-ray as well as a second confirmatory blood test. Nothing in the x-ray indicated he may have swallowed an actual object, but his second confirmatory blood test revealed a BLL of 52. Other labwork was performed, and we learned his iron level was low and his hemoglobin level was on the lower end of normal. So far, his kidneys and liver appear to be functioning properly.

My pediatrician prescribed an iron supplement and a drug called Succimer, which is apparently difficult to find and compound. Our Walgreen's couldn't do it, so a pharmacy in the next town over is going to order it and compound the formula. We will not be able to get it until Thursday evening. It's amazing how important this drug is, yet we have to wait to get it. It is common for BLLs to spike after one course, as bones are remodeling themselves and will be pulling out the lead. His BLL will be rechecked after 5 days on the medicine. He'll be on the medicine for about a month. Once his level stabilized to 35, he can go off the medication. This is a form of chelation therapy. I've been told the drug has a foul taste and odor. It is scary to put my son on this type of medication.

Tomorrow, a risk assessment will be performed at our former residence. I will also be meeting with a nurse case manager from the IL Dept. of Public Health. They got in touch with me relatively fast, and the case manager appears to be very informative. I'm hoping perhaps she can give me more hope that it is still possible our son will not suffer in any way as a result of his lead poisoning. One thing to mention is that if i had a history of lead poisoning and passed anything onto my son, it is possible it will take longer for the lead to leave his body. I should also mention that I was a religious EPer - I exclusively pumped breast milk and still have quite the frozen stash. I was very conservative in the foods I offered to my son and when, as breast milk or formula should be the primary nutrition source until age 1. So much for transitioning him off breast milk - we switched right over to cow's milk just in case there were any trace amounts of lead in my breast milk.

We're also awaiting results from a lead water test. Christopher didn't drink tap water, and I didn't cook with it for him. But he did bathe and swim in it, so I am sure he took some of it in.

This is scary stuff, and there ought to be more public awareness, I agree. I guess it's too expensive to test every child, but it sure is worth it. One look at the toy and jewelry recall list, and any current toy could just as easily be on the list....I wonder how many don't ever make it onto the list. Hopefully we two ladies can get others to chime in here!


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## baileyblack (Jan 15, 2013)

TKC2011 - how are things? How is Christopher? I've been thinking of you.

We're at my in laws awaiting test results on our house, which we're not even 100% certain is the source, but it's the only thing we can think of.

I'm having a really hard time coming to terms with all this. I'm alternately heartbroken, angry, numb, and wracked with guilt.


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## TKC2011 (Jan 13, 2013)

Thank you so much for keeping my family in your thoughts. I will continue to keep yours in my thoughts.

Surprisingly, Christopher has so far done very well with his chelation treatment. I was terrified for him to start the medication, but he seems to be handling it very well. The worst part for him is that we hold him down to administer the medication, but he bounces right back once it is done and over with. Next week he will need to go back to the doctor's for more bloodwork, not only to check his lead levels but also to make sure his white blood cell count remains normal.

While we are awaiting some test results, we decided to run some instant quick tests on a few items that didn't get zapped by the assessor's lead detector. You will not believe this, but a very popular baby food making system component tested positive! We used a test strip on a lead fishing sinker for our control, and the color appears to be the same with the baby food system's parts. And yes, it appears a part that touches the food is either made of lead or has had lead leach onto it... Here I was thinking we were doing a healthy thing for our son by making our own baby food. I do have a frozen batch of food that can go to a lab for testing, and I do think further testing is needed to ascertain what these hardware test results showed...but if it in any way contributed to our son's high lead levels, I am going to be very upset. Lead has no place in a system intended to be used to feed babies! I suppose after we get confirmation, I will file a report to the CPSC. But I do want to see if more tests can be run... I'm not ruling out the house, but after what the assessor said...and now this...one must wonder.

I know staying at the in-laws' is not ideal for most, but I'm glad neither of our families have to stay in homes that may be the source of lead poisoning. It's actually been quite helpful for me since I feel awful from the pregnancy, and Christopher loves being around his grandparents. Eventually we plan to purchase a new home, but there's not much to choose from in our area since we are ruling out all older homes.

I will keep you updated on further test results and what I learn about this baby food system!


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## vanessa000abc (Jan 22, 2013)

Dear all:

I just got my DS lead level at 12 months and it is 5.3 through finger prick. I am so worried.I order the lead test kit and hopefully it will help me identify some items at my apartment. Also do anyone knows the lead level will go down to 0 ? My ped told us that the lead will not go out from the body? Is that right? I will do anything to take this lead level down. And I believe all the moms in this threat have the same faiths.


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## baileyblack (Jan 15, 2013)

Vanessa: Ask your ped for another test via a venous draw. Finger prick test results can often come out higher than they actually are due to the difficulty of keeping the prick site totally clean, especially with a squirmy little baby with a tiny finger. A venous test may show a lower actual level. Then ask your ped about safe ways to get the levels down - for my baby, the ped said to make sure she was getting calcium, vitamin C, and iron - these "bind" to lead and help flush lead from the body. My ped also prescribed an iron supplement to help get the levels down - you could ask your ped if that would be appropriate. Definitely talk to your ped, especially about iron, because iron is something you also want to be careful not to go overboard with. Good luck - let us know what happens!


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## vanessa000abc (Jan 22, 2013)

Thanks, Bailey for your advice. I don't like my Ped as she did not offer me any suggestions on how to get the levels down. She even told us that it is boarder line and we should not worry much. I know in NY, any level above 2 should be drawn attention to. We had the little one drawn blood on Friday and I am still waiting for the results.Meanwhile, We are asked to move a temporary apartment, as our old apartment is under " lead testing". We are doing everything we can to help the baby.


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## kit167 (Jan 9, 2014)

Hello, I'm a new member, and I got to this site because of my panic at a possible lead exposure. I got a thick 60s wooden dining table a few months back and stripped it and sanded it. At the back of my mind was a tiny voice saying lead paint (which I knew a little about) but it wasn't until I finished the project that I hit the internet and discovered to my horror that if it had contained lead paint, our exposure would have been high. The inhalation of the wood dust (which I didn't clean up) the weeks that we spent passing through the garage where the work was done, and tracking it into the house, the car, etc. I only did the first cleanup around the work area some two months after I began the project.

I had my blood lead levels drawn and won't know the results for some two weeks, but I've been beside myself with fear. We are planning our first baby and if the results come back high, should I go ahead with trying to conceive? Or wait some time for the levels to drop? (I know some of the lead will stay in my body though)

Please, has any of you measured high for lead BEFORE getting pregnant, and then had a normal pregnancy and healthy baby? The thread has a lot of stories of children being poisoned, but I want to know about poisoning in the earliest stage: the fetal stage. Should I still try to have a baby, even with the knowledge that it will begin to get poisoned the moment it is formed? I am quite depressed. Thanks!


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## Mamma Madness (Jun 21, 2014)

HI All,

Reading through this thread, almost all of it, has really helped my anxiety over a high lead level in my baby. He was tested at 10 months with a level of 19, the pediatrician told me to start supplementing iron since we was slightly anemic as well. We live in an older house owned by my parents, we always knew there was lead but took the approach that we would be cautious and I always thought that I had grown up there and was fine. nearly every house in the area would be build before 1978, so it comes with the territory.

After first googling the effects of lead my pretty calm response to the whole thing got thrown into a a whirlwind of emotions. Sleepless nights worrying about him. his intelligence, his cognitive abilities, is it the crib he's in, the toys, the walls, did I mop well enough, did I rinse his hands again??

Reading others experience at least comforts my concerns. I was hoping this month it would be 19 and it would be 0 the next with proper precautions, but as I have read this is more a marathon than a sprint. 
I have two older children that I asked to be tested after the baby turned up high, I am waiting for their results. We are in the process of buying a home so this is stressing the whole situation a bit wondering if we should just rent and move out as soon as possible or if we can stay for the needed few months that buying a home requires.

Not looking for any answers really just saying thank you for being out there and for letting the beginners know that all turns out fine it just takes some diligence and lost sleep. Fingers crossed that the older two aren't too high because I'll be thrown into another tailspin of confusion and concern.

In the latest posts someone mentioned this http://www.bioray.com/ndf/
Has anyone else tried this and had any luck?


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## 4lilfarmers (Feb 9, 2006)

was it a finger prick or actual blood draw? finger pricks can be inaccurate (especially if you are living in a home that could have lead dust)... my childrens' finger pricks have always been higher than their venous levels. 

we live amongst lead, as we have a 175 year old farm. we had some abatement work done, but only what we could get a grant for.

our doctor recommended NdF (and liver life, if needed) two years after my ds1 had elevated levels (21)---our doc at the time of that lead level didn't recommend anything but getting our house checked and retesting our son...  anyway, we had success with Ndf although later chelations (for testing his tissue levels) always showed some amount of lead.


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