# Detergents, Free&Clears, and Purex



## BrendaW

I'm not a regular poster, (or even reader) so I feel a little like I'm invading, but a customer emailed me a link to a couple of threads and asked if I could elaborate (just for them), and after reading around, thought I could offer something helpful. And thought a new thread might be more efficient than answering on 10 different ones.

There are a few threads simultaneously discussing which detergents are okay, particularly with pocket diapers, discussing whether free & clears are okay, and confusion about whether or not Purex is on the "black list".

The biggest problem with most detergents and pocket diapers (and Bummis covers) is a fairly new additive, brighteners. Sometimes called UV enhancers, brightening agents, brightening dye... It's a sort of dye made to stay on fabrics after washing and drying (so extra rinses don't help) and bend the reflected light toward the blue end of the spectrum, making clothes look brighter even though they aren't any cleaner than usual. If you look at your diapers or the detergent under a blacklight, there will be a bit of a UV glow, even.

ALL free & clear used to be the big one that had it. A patent on it must have just run out, because suddenly, in the last few months, it seems EVERY major brand has added it to their detergents. So any information more than a few months old may be outdated.

Purex Free & Clear used to be one f&c that didn't use it. It's what I used myself. But VERY recently they've added brighteners to, it appears, every version they make, including the free & clear. It's not that anyone was wrong about it or gave misinformation, it's just that they make these changes so FAST that it's nearly impossible to keep up with. And they aren't required by any law to list their ingredients, so you may not even know just by looking at the ingredients. But most companies, if they bother putting in there, will advertise on the front of the bottle/box "Brightens colors! Whitens whites!"

1. So Purex was okay, may not be any more.
2. Free & clears are only bad IF they have brighteners, but most do.
3. You can't trust ingredients lists, but avoid any detergent that claims to brighten colors.

I hope that cleared up some questions instead of creating more!

Brenda


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## pfamilygal

Very helpful. Thanks!

Do you know if 7th Generation detergents have it?


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## woodsygirl

7th generation is listed on the no-no list on her website.

Oddly enough, Ecover has stated on the back of the bottle (I just went and looked after all of this.. lol) that it does not contain optical brighteners though I think because it is a natural soap (it is plant based) that it will eventually lead to build-up.

I think i'll just be sure to use the Allens on the Fuzzi Bunz when the time comes, though all this talk has fascinated me really. I had no idea the stuff that goes into laundry detergent....

Thanks SunshineDiapers for coming here and clarifying, I found your website both beautiful and helpful.


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## Melissaak

Very helpful post. Thanks


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## BrendaW

Good. I had hoped it was helpful.

pfamilygal, 7th generation is loads better than any of the commercial detergents, and they don't have brighteners or any of that really industrial stuff. It's been labeled as a bit of a troublemaker because of the plant oils. Like other lipids (like fabric softeners and soap) they'll build up. But it's much, much easier to remove than the stuff in commercial detergents.

woodsy, I honestly don't know about ecover. It may be similar to 7th generation in that the plant oils will build up, more like soap than like the brighteners. But I don't think the effect would be like that of using something with lots of industrial strenght additives, and it may also depend on your water.

I started doing lots of research and calling the textile schools and residue-free detergent makers when, after 6 years of selling Bummis and a couple of years of selling pockets, people suddenly, this year, started saying they were wicking through. That had never happened before. I knew the diapers hadn't changed. It was the same time the brighteners hit the market on a wide scale, which coincided with what I was hearing from the "experts" I talked to about camping and hunting gear (much of which is waterproof) being affected. But I'm not yet an expert on all the brands...


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## woodsygirl

I think that Ecover would be similar to 7th Generation (it is entirely plant based), though I have to say, I think Ecover is a little more soapy (it reminds me more of castille soap than the others..). I use the liquid stuff, though I see their website lists enzymes in the powder version. I used to be a 7th Generation user, but I found that I ended up liking Ecover better (actually their toilet cleaner is amazing.. lol).

The diaper site I purchased my diapers from had listed it as one they recommend, so I'm guessing that others have used it without too many problems. Interestingly enough, Ecover's bottle stated "*no optical brighteners - research has shown that optical brighteners bind to the skin irreversibly" which if true, would definately turn me off to optical brighteners, diaper build-up or not!..


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## thorn

so, the HE All I bought for my front loader contains "brightening agent" - it's no good?

the Sun Ultra I bought only has "anionic and/or nonionic surfactants" - no brightener, brightening, enhancer, nothing like that

the Sun one would be better then?


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## woodsygirl

Sounds like the Sun would be better Thorn. I've had a front loader for a few years now... i've always been told that those HE detergents are just watered down versions that cost more. You should just use 1/2 (or even 1/3) of the regular stuff.


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## Brinda

What about method? I haven't heard anything about it one way or the other.


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## amberthesugarcat

So is there any Free and Clear out there that does not contain brighteners??? I just bought some Purex and was surprised to see that it said it brightens and whitens, yet it does not list brighteners on the ingredients. That is very annoying...

And do these brighteners affect cotton? Or is it more of a problem with microfleece? Why are pockets a particular concern?


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## BrendaW

It's me again. I've done so much research in the last few months!

Amber, the pockets seem to be more affected because it seems to affect waterproofing and the synthetic inner faster than cotton (more explained below). Totally what pockets are made of. It affects covers, too, but unlike covers, pockets are washed after every use, so you see the effects much faster. So far the ONLY free & clear that I've seen without it is our store brand, Publix (a southern chain). Purex was free of it until late 2005. And yes, it's very annoying that they aren't required to list it! Even more annoying that brighteners are really a dye, and free & clears claim to be "dye free".

It's very long, but here's some excerpts from my research that might answer some of your questions:

"How important is this "residue" problem? Most important for your pocket diapers and covers. It will not affect your cotton diapers as much as your waterproofing and fleece/synthetics. According to studies done on detergent residue by Clemson University's school of textiles, 8 washes with Tide leaves enough residue to make a garment 2% heavier (they tested Dreft, too, which also left residues). The study was done mostly as a response to the effect that hunters and campers were seeing on their waterproof gear aftrer washing in commercial detergents. They were comparing residues of commercial detergents to some residue free detergents (they tested sensi-clean, wonderwash, Charlie's, none left residue.)

Much of that residue is designed to break water tension (which helps get clothes cleaner in the wash). Normally our covers depend on water tension to keep water from getting through the holes that allow a little water vapor to go through, but should not allow water through. That residue clogs those little holes and spreads out over both sides of the waterproof layer. When water (urine) reaches this residue on the inside, it loses its tension that would normally make it bead up, spreads out and soaks into that layer of residues, which acts like a wick and carries it right through those holes into the outside layer of residues. The result is a slow wicking wetness over the covers. With fleece and suedecloth, the residue slows down water's passage through, what we know as repelling."

"The new additives - they aren't required to list their ingredients, so they may not be listed at all!:

Orange oil, citrus extract, grapeseed extract: These are just a few - look for similar additives. "Natural" detergents are more likely to have these plant-based oils, which will build up on diapers over time. That's not a problem on regular clothes, and sometimes it's not a problem on diapers, but eventually these oils build up. The effect is especially pronounced on fleece - it becomes impermeable and won't let wetness through, and on waterproof fabric. The nice thing is that these are much easier to remove than those industrial additives listed below. Look for these in 7th generation, ecover, and similar natural detergents.

Brighteners: This is fairly new to detergents. Since it's "proprietary", it's not listed the same way on every bottle. Sometimes not listed at all. Look for "optical brighteners", "brightners and whiteners", "UV enhancers" or anything that suggests it "brightens clothes!". It's a chemical dye designed to stay on clothes even after washing and drying. It bends the wavelength of light reflected off of clothes toward the blue end of the spectrum, which makes whites seem more blue than grey, and colors seem more vibrant (in fact, if you put the detergent or white clothes under a blacklight, it will glow.) It's designed to stick to fibers and is difficult to remove, so those extra rinses won't do a thing. Nor will you see any suds if you rewash them (so that advice about wash them in plain water and see if there are suds - won't help with these new additives that are designed to stay on through it all.) It seems to have the greatest affect on pocket diapers and covers, causing a water-wicking layer in waterproof fabrics and making stay-dry liners less permeable. But as with any residue, you may get rashes and odor retention on cotton diapers."

Stain guards/antiredeposition agents: It's also "proprietary", and so not always listed. But the detergent will probably indicate somehow that it "repels stains" or "guards fabric". Like brighteners, it's designed to stick to fibers in order to keep working even after washing and drying, so those extra rinses won't do a thing and they will continue to build up, causing the same problems as all residues: odors, rashes, and wicking covers.

A note on "Free & Clear": It doesn't seem quite fair, but the term "free & clear" only means free of perfumes and clear of colorants. They can and usually do have all sorts of other additives, many of which can be just as irritating to skin as perfumes and dyes. I find it quite insidious, and take offense that detergent makers do this. But don't assume that "free & clear" means that there's nothing harmful. Actually, every brand that I've seen has brighteners added.

And because people ask me to be more specific on this, I'll name brands that seem to be cropping up as troublemakers:

ALL Free & Clear and many other "free & clear" formulations
Some versions of Bio-Kleen
7Th Generation
Dreft and other "formulated for baby" detergents
Soap products like Dr. Bronner's and Fels-Naptha
Tide
Any major brand that claims to whiten, brighten, or guard against stains

So what detergent DO we recommend?
Our list gets shorter as detergent makers keep adding the latest and greatest new chemicals to their ingredients. Things I recommended just 6 months ago I've noticed have joined the UV brightener bandwagon. And other diaper sites still recommend brands that were fine a year or two ago, but they aren't up-to-date on how these additives affect the new fabrics being used for diapers. I most highly recommend residue-free detergents that were developed for campers, hunters, and sportsmen when they began to realize that regular detergents were making their waterproof gear less effective.
These include:

Sensi-clean also sold under the name Sportwash, made by Atsko
Charlie's Soap (they use the word "soap", but it is soap-free) - www.charliesoap.com and www.drugstore.com
Wonder Wash - in Canadian stores - http://wonderwash.net/page4.html
Allen's Naturally - www.allensnaturally.com
Granger's G-wash - www.grangersusa.com
Oxy-prime from Natural Choices - www.oxyboost.com
Other detergents that are labeled "residue-free", often found in sporting goods stores
A home-made detergent: while the washer is filling add 2 Tbs Simple Green and 1/4 Cup Washing Soda. Nothing else needed. This is what I use.
Cheap warehouse brands or store brands with nothing but detergents/surfactants (like Sam's Club, Publix)

Besides my own formula, I found Sam's Club and Charlie's to be the most cost-effective. You do not HAVE to order any of these special detergents to wash your diapers, but I think you will run into fewer odor/rash/wicking problems. Many of those listed above are sold in Whole Foods markets and other natural food stores. It is more important if you are using all-in-ones, pocket diapers, and Bummis covers. They will build up on cotton diapers, but the effect won't be as dramatic as it is on waterproof materials and fleece."

So far the Washing Soda/simple green is working for me, but I'm too cheap to buy specialty detergents... It also seems that some people have fewer problems with the commercial detergents because they use very little of it at a time.


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## raspberryswirl

Thank you Brenda for the excellent information!









I am wondering though...what is "washing soda"?


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## SortaCrunchy

&%^%&*^&*! Now I am so mad!!! I have been contently using Purex F&C on ALL of our laundry - so happy to have found a cheap choice for everything. Dangit! Why did they have to go and ruin it? I use mostly pockets, so this is a concern for me. . . I live in a small town and can't get the natural ones here (not that i could afford them anyway . . .).

Shoot, shoot, shoot. Just when I had things all figured out.

Well, thanks for the heads-up on this!!


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## amberthesugarcat

BrendaW, thanks so much! I am very impressed with your research and thanks for taking the time to explain it to us. Wow, I am so mad that they are now adding dyes to make our clothes look clean, but that are in fact coating our clothes with nasty substances... That is a bunch of bull, and I can't believe that it is allowed, esp. with them not listing it on the ingredients...

Makes me mad I just bought that huge bottle of Purex. Does Costco's store brand have any of these additives? And how do you tell if they don't list it? I guess you have to see if they say anything like "brightens, whitens, repells stains, etc."?


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## mollyeilis

ITA with daceysmomma!!! I thought I'd finally figured it out, and to be honest, the Purex F&C was working nicely. Of course, I had also found washing soda and have been using a bit of it along with the Purex, so maybe that's what has been helping.

Did it go along with a bottle change? The first bottle of Purex I bought, there were some white bottles and some darker bottles, with the same label. Now I only find the white bottle; I wonder if the brighteners were added and the bottles changed to white, to go along with it?

"A home-made detergent: while the washer is filling add 2 Tbs Simple Green and 1/4 Cup Washing Soda. Nothing else needed. This is what I use."

That's all, eh? When you say Simple Green, don't they make several products? Can you be as specific as possible, so that people like me, whose eyes cross when she gets into the cleaning product aisles, don't make a stupid mistake by buying the wrong thing? Washing soda is SO cheap, it would be great if something that simple could help!

I also wonder, since you seem to really be researching this, I wonder if this could be a "sticky", and you could update it as you find the products change again?


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## Brinda

Such great information! Thanks a lot.


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## GranolaMoon

Many thanks for sharing your research







I've been digging into this too, for the first time in four diaperlings we have build-up issues. With two kiddos allergic to dyes we've only used free and clear detergents for the last several years.


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## UmmBnB

Anyone know if Kirkland's Free and Clear is OK. I've been using it for a couple of years with no problems but typically use cotton dipes with alexis covers. I just bought a bunch of Magic Alls and would hate to damage them.

Kirkland is Costco's store brand.

Nevermind...the label says it does contain "brightening agents" Darn,.


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## DeeEast

Can someone tell me what washing soda is? What kind of Simple Green to buy if there is more than one?


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## MonP'titBoudain

Really quick (fussy hungry babe in arms) here's a really helpful link for info on washing soda (with a pic) http://www.pinstripesandpolkadots.co...basics.htm#RLR

and last time I bought simple green, you could get a bottle of the concentrated basic formula/gen purpose cleaner, not in a spray bottle, not for any special/specific job. However, it's been a couple of years since I bought any... it lasts a looong time!

hth! off to nurse again (every hour today yikes!)


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## mollyeilis

Hi!

I wrote to Brenda with some followup questions, and she answered and said I could put her answers here.

I asked if the Simple Green was this kind, and she said :

"Yes, the old fashioned green type. Usually in a squirt bottle even thought it's supposed to be diluted before use (never understood that). I found mine at my grocery store with the cleaners, and I've seen it at Target and Sam's Club."

I asked "There's also a yellow version with perhaps a lemon scent, is that the same thing as the green one, or is it contraindicated?"

And she said: "I'm not certain, but it looks like it's just a different scent of the same thing."

I wrote "Someone mentioned (either in your thread or elsewhere, can't recall) that they don't use A&H washing soda for some reason, but I can't find any other brand...do you know if there's something wrong with their washing soda?"

And she writes: "Hmmm. I remember that A&H added enzymes to their DETERGENT a couple of years back, so since then A&H has been on many people's "no" list. But that's different from their washing soda, which is just sodium carbonate, the same as any other brand (it's the only brand at my store, too). That's the only thing I can think of that would make someone say anything about A&H brand as opposed to a different one."

Hope that helps someone as much as it helped me!


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## It's me!

If I use my homemade soap...which is made from bar laundry soap, borax, and washing soda, am I okay? I know it can eventually cause build up from the soap, but I could stip them then right? Or should I change to the simple green and washing soda? If I do change, is this good for all laundry or are you just using it on your diapers. I make my own detergent and use it on all, and don't really want to have two...but I will if necessary.

Thanks in advance!


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## Smullarkey

Brenda, Thank you so much for sharing this all! It is the one question I get more than any other.


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## justmama

And to think I really thought I had a system that worked.







:

Meg


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## *Jessica*

Ok, looks like we're switching to Allen's. Should I buy the liquid or powder?


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## mollyeilis

Quote:

A home-made detergent: while the washer is filling add 2 Tbs Simple Green and 1/4 Cup Washing Soda. Nothing else needed. This is what I use.
Well, I'm trying that right now!

Yikes though; Simple Green really smells, well, *green*!


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## musicmaj

Rats!!! I just checked my bottle of xtra and it has optical brighteners. I used to use sportwash which was wonderful, but my Walmart stopped carrying it. I have also tried Sun, and it does not have the brighteners in it - but I had some stink with it in my hard water.

I have prefolds, fuzzi bunz, and bummis too.

I am going to try the washing soda/simple green next or maybe the charlies soap which also looks good and economical. (free shipping to us.)


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## musicmaj

I went out and bought some simple green and a box of washing soda this morning. It cost me $6. I am washing a load of diapers right now. There are a ton of bubbles and I wonder if it is stripping the buildup I had on them.

I am going to keep track of how many loads I can get out of the washing soda and simple green. I bet I can get at least 40 loads. I really hope this works good in my hard water.


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## UmmBnB

Anyone know if the Kirkland All-Purpose cleaner (green stuff) is the same as Simple Green? I have a huge jug of the stuff and would prefer to use it up.


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## Tapioca

Wow. VERY enlightening.

No wonder my diapers stink









No more Tide for us!


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## Tapioca

Is there ANY way to get optical brighteners off clothes?


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## Hazelnut

Okay I have some new FBs I'm waiting to wash until my Allens Natural stuff comes in the mail. That stuff better be super concentrated and last forever.
It seems like a pain to have to ORDER soap in the mail, but I don't trust myself to mix my own anything.
I was at the store today, and checked out the detergents. I actually didn't see anything about brightening on most of them, but then they brag about so much stuff on the containers it's kind of confusing. Maybe I'll check out the sportwash stuff at Dicks. I couldn't find allens at any natural food stores.
This is so informative!


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## musicmaj

Just so you all know, the simple green/washing soda left my dipes smelling cleaner and fresher than they have in a long time. They look great too!


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## angel0123

Vey interesting and convincing i'm switching to Allens.
Thanks for posting this!


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## KBinSATX

I bookmarked this. Can't wait to try the Simple Green/Washing Soda thing and I don't even have my baby yet!


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## mollyeilis

Quote:


Originally Posted by *musicmaj*
Just so you all know, the simple green/washing soda left my dipes smelling cleaner and fresher than they have in a long time. They look great too!

Same here! I was a little bit scared of the smell of the SG as it went into the washer, but there is absolutely NO SMELL whatsoever on my now-dried diapers, where before there has always been some hint of diaperness. My husband was very excited when I threw the diaper in his face, to not smell anything.


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## amberthesugarcat

Well, I was inspired to try the Simple Green / washing soda after reading these posts. I have softened well water, and my diapers almost always have a faint odor after washing / before drying.

Well, my ds has the rotavirus, which has the most nasty smelling diarrhea ever. I was going to use sposies, but I just could not do it, especially when his little bum is so tender. (BTW, Malox and Aquaphor combo really does work miracles). Anyway, if I could get these diapers fresh smelling with SG and WS then it would work for the day to day situation.

The first set of nasty diapers were washed with my normal ritual of cold wash and then hot wash with sportwash, and I had to wash them a total of 4 times to get the reek out. The second set had vinegar/BS in the cold wash, then WS in the hot wash. These actually smelled pretty good (acceptable) coming from the washing machine. The third set had a cold wash with nothing, and a hot wash with the SG/WS combo. And OMG, they smell so fresh and clean! The only time they have ever smelled this good was when I added a tbsp of bleach to my wash, but that can discolor my fitted dipes. I was a bit concerned because when I added the SG to my wash water it combined with the rotavirus stench and I almost threw up! But by the end of the wash they were odor free and so clean.

So try it, it works! I got the SG and WS from Walmart. Wow, I am so impressed!!! And it is cheap. If you can't get the SG then try baking soda/vinegar in the first cold wash, and Washing Soda in the second hot wash. That also seems to work pretty good.


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## natesmommy126

What brand is the washing soda? I haven't seen it at my walmart, but will look tomorrow for it again.


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## It's me!

The Washing Soda (at least the only kind I've ever found) is Arm & Hammer. I've been buying it for years (but not very often, it lasts a long time) because I've been making my own laundry soap. My Wal-Mart doen't carry it. I found it at Harris Teeter Grocery Store, but only one in my area carries it (the furthest one from me! LOL) It can be hard to find and if you call around, they may not even know what you are talking about. I think I searched on line to find a local one (the first time I bought it a diff. one carried it, but then they stopped and I had to search again) I don't remember if I went to Harris Teeters site to see if they carried it or if I went to the Arm & Hammer site (you know how some will give you a list of stores that carry their product?) If you can't find it locally you can order it online...of course that adds to the price, but it would probably be worth it.

Look on Arm&Hammers website for a picture, so you know what you are looking for. The box is about the same size as a box of Borax (found at most stores) and it is yellow with the arm & hammer symbol BIG on the front.

Does anybody have an answer for my question a bit above? I asked if my laundry soap is okay to use on diapers (that I make myself) . It has bar laundry soap, borax and washing soda in it. I guess it will eventually cause build up and I'd have to strip them, but I'm thinking it would be okay (I washed in it last time I cd'ed, but was never sure) Does the simple green and washing soda work good for all laundry or do you just use it on your diapers. I think I really want to try it, but I hate having two different things for wash. The soap I make, I make in bulk so it takes a lot of storage space in my laundry room.









Thanks!


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## amberthesugarcat

I found the A&H washing soda at my Walmart. Sometimes it is hard to locate, but I found it by the huge box of laundry baking soda. I still can't believe how well this SG/WS works. I am going to try it on my other laundry.


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## mollyeilis

I odn't know about the homemade detergent, sorry. When I PMd Brenda she was very nice about replying...

Arm & Hammer washing soda. Found it right in plain sight at the local Fred Meyer (which is Kroger, I believe).


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## boscopup

Ok, as I'm dealing with Fuzzi Bunz fleece that smells like POOP, yet I often get buildup easily (I have soft water), I'm wanting to try this Simple Green/Washing Soda thing. I don't have any Washing Soda though, so maybe I'll try Baking Soda today and use Washing Soda later.







I just want SOMETHING that will work!

Will the Simple Green get the brighteners out from previous washes? Or is there something else we need to do to get them out?

I thought it was interesting about the black light showing clothes having the brighteners. I used to use All F&C, and one time when we went bowling, I noticed that we had HUGE spots on our clean jeans - showing up really well under the blacklights!!! I was highly embarrassed, as no one else with us had these spots on their clothing. I guess they were using cheapo detergents that didn't have brighteners yet!!!


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## Marielle

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amberthesugarcat*
Well, I was inspired to try the Simple Green / washing soda after reading these posts. I have softened well water, and my diapers almost always have a faint odor after washing / before drying.

Well, my ds has the rotavirus, which has the most nasty smelling diarrhea ever. I was going to use sposies, but I just could not do it, especially when his little bum is so tender. (BTW, Malox and Aquaphor combo really does work miracles). Anyway, if I could get these diapers fresh smelling with SG and WS then it would work for the day to day situation.

The first set of nasty diapers were washed with my normal ritual of cold wash and then hot wash with sportwash, and I had to wash them a total of 4 times to get the reek out. The second set had vinegar/BS in the cold wash, then WS in the hot wash. These actually smelled pretty good (acceptable) coming from the washing machine. The third set had a cold wash with nothing, and a hot wash with the SG/WS combo. And OMG, they smell so fresh and clean! The only time they have ever smelled this good was when I added a tbsp of bleach to my wash, but that can discolor my fitted dipes. I was a bit concerned because when I added the SG to my wash water it combined with the rotavirus stench and I almost threw up! But by the end of the wash they were odor free and so clean.

So try it, it works! I got the SG and WS from Walmart. Wow, I am so impressed!!! And it is cheap. If you can't get the SG then try baking soda/vinegar in the first cold wash, and Washing Soda in the second hot wash. That also seems to work pretty good.

Just a quick question since I also have softened well water - did you use the Simple Green full strength or diluted per instructions? Also since you have soft water did you use 1/2 the amount indicated by Brenda?


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## It's me!

So am I to understand that because I have hard water I'm better off? I've just noticed a lot of you talking about the difficulties of having soft water....am I actually in a good position with my hard water? Please explain it to me. I've always been bummed about having hard water.

And this is a serious question, I'm not trying to be cutsie...I just didn't know if it would be taken that way so I wanted to be clear! LOL


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## mollyeilis

"you use the Simple Green full strength or diluted per instructions? "

I know nothing of hard vs soft water, but it's only 2 tablespoons into a huge amount of water...that's pretty diluted, yes? I wondered the same thing, until I noticed just how much water was diluting the SG.


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## boscopup

Update... I tried using Simple Green with baking soda and a dab (just barely covering the bottom of the cap) of Sportswash. After a hot wash and 2 rinses, my diapers smelled like... Simple Green!







So I ran another short hot wash with nothing and one more rinse. That did the trick, and most of the diapers have no smell, which is GOOD. I saw a TON of suds, so I definitely had some buildup going on.

My Fuzzi Bunz fleece still smells a little poopy, but not nearly as bad as it was. So maybe after doing this method a few times, they might be de-poop-smelled. I just hate microfleece and suedecloth. They're the only ones that pick up this poopy smell. My hemp is easier to keep non-stinky!









To the PP asking if she's better off with hard water - I doubt it. I think water problems aren't always hard vs. soft. Sometimes they're related to what other minerals are in there, how much chlorine (if any) is in the water, etc, etc. I think hard water people usually have more trouble than soft water people, but soft water people aren't without our problems.


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## mollyeilis

I bet once you get the washing soda combo going, it will be different.


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## boscopup

I hope so! I'll have to hit a grocery store to find the washing soda. Walmart didn't have it.

Btw, I used 1 tbsp SG today in a load of regular clothes, and I didn't have the SG smell.


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## mags

OK, I am really tired, but I went through the posts and did not see anything that might answer my question. I want to try the SG & washing soda combo. HOWEVER, *how much of the SG and washing soda do I use if I have a front loader AND soft water?*

Thanks. I had tried the SG by itself about 2 months ago, b/c someone on another forum had mentioned it. It did not cut it for me back then, b/c it left BF poo stains on my FBs (sportswash alone also leaves BF poo stains on my FBs), it must need the washing soda to help it work better.


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## mollyeilis

I have no clue. I've mentioned that Brenda, the originator of this thread, was very kind when I PM'd her with more questions....


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## nighten

For folks like me, who refuse to shop at Walmart, but can't find the A&H washing soda anywhere nearby, you can call this number: 1-800-524-1328. It's the Arm & Hammer number and they should be able to tell you where the closest place is that you can find it.

If it's still not available anywhere close to you, there are several places on the web where you can order it, including this place:

http://www.soapsgonebuy.com/product_p/ah1001.htm

HTH!


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## BrendaW

Hello, it's me, Brenda. You guys make me think I should go back and get a chemistry degree so I can really answer everything.

(I'm not a regular on any boards, so I don't come back and check things here. I got some private emails, so I thought I'd pop back in here.)

1. Homemade detergent: That's actually what I was trying to mimic. That's what I used before I started cloth diapering, and since real soap is not to be used on cloth diapers (it leaves a waxy coating that's not as difficult to remove as the industrial additives, but it does stay on there) I wanted another "recipe" that left out the soap. But what did the soap do? What needed to replace it? After talking to other chemists and textile people, that recipe seemed to have all the basics it needed. I tried it for 6 months before recommending it. But this is meant to be a more diaper-friendly *replacement* for that home-made formula. And easier to make, frankly!

2. Front loaders: I'm depending on people with front loaders to report back. I'm still in the top loading age. I was afraid the simple green would be too sudsy for FL, but the two people I've heard from so far said it went okay. I'd cut the amounts in the same proportion that you normally cut other detergent amounts. I'd like to hear from front loader users, though.

3. Simple green: full strength or diluted? Full strength. I never understood why they put it in a spray bottle if it was meant to be diluted! But I use it straight from the full strength spray bottle and put about 4 sprays in.

4. The brand of Washing Soda doesn't matter. It's all sodium carbonate. But Arm&Hammer is usually what you see. You can even buy sodium carbonate in bulk, $10 for 10lb, from thechemistrystore.com, but I honestly don't know if it's worth it after shipping. (you can also buy sodium percarbonate in bulk there, which is oxyclean, but again I don't know if you come out ahead after shipping.)

5. Hard water/soft water is something I know very very little about. I do know that Washing Soda acts as a mild water softener, which is why it's used in most detergents. But how this will work in soft water vs hard water I'm not certain. For the record I have city water, which I assume is soft.

6. I use this on my regular laundry, too. I have a sample that Charlie's sent me long ago, and a bucket of Sam's club, and I can't tell the difference when I use one or the other or my own recipe. I'm sure something like sensi-clean or Charlie's or Allen's Naturally is better since it was formulated by chemists who know what they are doing, but this does seem to work, even if you only have it as a back-up for when you're waiting on your other stuff to come in. For the record, Charlie's may come out to cost not much more, as one person pointed out in a private email. You get 80 washes for $12, and that includes shipping.

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to send me a private message. I don't return here much, and I'll answer those quickly.


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## mom2alicia

THANK YOU! Great info! I had just stocked up on some PUREx free and clear. i will just use it for my regular clothes. i just got some new dipes and i'm glad i found this out now! i'm going to use simple green and washing soda. you mean borax, right? i have both already.


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## nighten

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom2alicia*
THANK YOU! Great info! I had just stocked up on some PUREx free and clear. i will just use it for my regular clothes. i just got some new dipes and i'm glad i found this out now! i'm going to use simple green and washing soda. you mean borax, right? i have both already.


Borax isn't washing soda. (Read the whole thread for details







)

This is washing soda: http://www.soapsgonebuy.com/product_p/ah1001.htm


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## princess buttercup

Sooooo....washing soda is sodium carbonate. sodium carbonate is also soda ash that you put in your swimming pool to regulate ph. Are they one in the same?
http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/s1/sodiumca.asp


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## mollyeilis

"Arm and Hammer Super Washing Soda is made of Sodium Carbonate the main washing ingredient in most powdered detergents. If you wanted to buy sodium carbonate from a local chemical supply house, it would also be the same compound and would totally work for washing diapers. Sodium Carbonate is a naturally occurring compound; in *natural detergents it is often called Soda Ash*."

From here.


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## amberthesugarcat

OK, I am back and I have used the WS/SG in my frontloader. And I have hard well water which is softened by salt, but still contains all types of minerals that somehow escape the softener. Like a PP said, all water is so different, and each well water has so many different amounts and types of minerals that no washing routine will be the same. And even though my water is "softened" I still get some (a tiny bit) mineral build-up on my faucets and such, so minerals are still present, just not as badly if I did not have a softener.

So my ds has the rotavirus and his poops are the stinkiest every. I am using cotton pockets with microfiber or PF stuffins. My last few loads still had a bit of smell after the cold wash, then hot wash with 1/4 cup WS and 2 tbsps SG. Darn it! But I have had more success with one cold wash with 1/4 cup BS and 1/4 cup vinegar, then a hot wash with 1/4 cup WS and 2 tbsp SG, with 1/4 cup vinegar in the fabric softener thingie. After this I had not detectable odor.

I can't tell whether I will always have to do so much since I am having a special circumstance (anyone who has ever had their baby have rotavirus will know how much it stinks...), so I hope the WS/SG will work alone in the future. I can tell you that I did not have much suds at all with using those concentrations.

I also wanted to say I have tried washing these diapers with Sportwash and Purex F&C and you would not imagine how much they still stunk... It was like they were not washed. Tide would probably work and I have had great success with that in the past, but my ds is very allergic to it and breaks out in a horrid rash!

It seems like when you have something that works, it stops working down the road. It is funny but I had hard nasty city water for 7 months of my CDing and I NEVER had any problems. I am convinced that the tiny bit of bleach added to city water kept my diapers smelling fresh and clean. I think I might just have to add a tsp or so every once in a while... I was so hoping to eliminate all bleach, but it might not be possible with my water.


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## mudder17

I'm glad you tried out the front loading method. We have city water and it's neither hard nor soft. I'm thinking maybe I'll try this, although we've had much success with sportswash. But I got my sportswash from my friend and I only have 2.5 bottles left. So if this works, it would be an excellent alternative!

I do have a question--when Brenda posted the instructions, she said that you should add the Soda Ash and Simply Green after the water has filled. But I can't really do that with a front loader. Did you just add the Soda Ash and Simply green in the detergent loader at the beginning? Also SG is a liquid and Soda Ash is a solid. Did you add them both in the dispenser and set the dispenser for solid?

Thanks!

Eileen


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## mollyeilis

I wonder if you could add a bit of water to the SG, mix the SG/water up with the washing soda, which would then make it a liquid?

Front loaders sound confusing!


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## mudder17

Hmm...I never thought about that. I have used powdered detergents before, but stopped because it was annoying how it would land on the clothes as powder and I was afraid it wouldn't dissolve well enough in the front loader. But making a solution out of the powder--that's an interesting idea. Sodium carbonate is not the most soluble of solids, but it's not bad, and probably dissolves better than the detergents with all those additives in them! Okay, I think I may try it out. Now all I need to do is locate SG and Soda Wash.

Thanks!


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## mom2alicia

i went to two stores and neither has the arm and hammer washing soda! thanks for the previous posts though. i will call the 800 # or maybe just order off soaps gone buy. i do have simple green though! i'm glad i checked this thread again. i was thinking borax, then i was thinking baking soda (LOL). now i think i understand!


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## mollyeilis

For future info...I just put 1/4 cup WS into a cup measure, put in approx 2 tablespoons of SG in there, and it made...not even a paste.







Toook 3 more tablespoons of cold water and a lot of mixing to get a liquid. I imagine it would be far easier using HOT water, but I didn't feel like it.









Brenda mentioned something about the spray pump, and using 4 pumps? It took 8 pumps of my spray thing to get even one tablespoon...so now I'm curious about that. I'd just been pouring it into a tblsp measure.


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## amberthesugarcat

I just figured out a cute trick to measure out the Simple Green. If you have ever used Calgon liquid, the top at the line is 4 tbsps. I just diluted 1 cup SG with 1 cup water and if I put a full cap in with my wash it is 2 tbsps equivalent of SG. So you won't be adding the full strength to your laundry. I am thinking of adding 2 more cups of water and just adding 2 capfuls.

Just a quick thought. Plus it is easy to mix by shaking.


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## crazydiamond

I just read an article, dated January 2006, on Consumer Reports's website (requires subscription) about Cheer Dark Fomula detergent. The article said that while it did not really clean any better than Cheer ColorGuard and Seventh Generation, it _does_ lack optical brighteners. It said that optical brighteners can made black look "rusty" so you don't find it in detergents made for dark colors. Can anyone verify this? If it's true, then it sound like it'll be easier to identify which detergents don't have an optical brighteners, which is a huge bonus!


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## daisymommy

Tide is listed as a "trouble maker". Can you tell me which kind of Tide? Or is it all Tide in general ?

Thank you SO MUCH Brenda! This is an awesome thread thanks to you!


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## mollyeilis

Followup to my make-a-liquid experiment.

My son was taking a nap so I didn't want to start any laundry when I mixed up the SG/WS/water. I let it sit, figuring it would be there when I needed it.

Oh gracious, it's now a ROCK HARD lump of white, with a slurry of green, yet see-through, stuff on top.









I'm sure it will go back to liquid if I put hot water into it, but MAN did it harden!


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## mom2alicia

i called the 800 # and found the arm and hammer super washing soda at raley's grocery store. so i got it finally! i'm going to try the SG/SWS combo. while i was there i also got some Soapworks laundry powder. i think i will use it for our clothes, maybe dipes too? what do you think....it says hypoallergenic non toxic, biodegradable, color safe, all temperature safe, no chlorine, no ammonia, no dyes, no EDTA, no NTA, No phosphates, no animal testing, baby safe. it lists it for washing diapers. it also says ingredients: fresh natural fragrance, blend of carefully chosen surfactants to optimize cleaning, anti-redeposition agent. what do you guys think about Soapworks?


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## vintagegreen

Thanks for the 800#...I went to 5 stores around me and nobody had washing soda.


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## mags

Brenda,

Thanks for checking back. I will let you know how the SG & WS combo does with my front loader & soft water combo.

For those of you having difficulty finding the washing soda, I found it at meijer last night, so if you live in the midwest, it would be worth checking out.


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## searchdogk98

I don't post here often, but was pointed to this thread by another board. I didn't see anyone else mention this and sorry if I just missed it, but if you go to the simple green website you can print out a $2 off coupon for simple green which would help cut down the cost.

NOTE: You have to have your printed set to not keep printed documents or you won't be able to print the coupon and it will only let you print it 1 or 2 times so make sure you are set up right before you try to print or you won't be able to get it because it will tell you that you have already printed the coupon.

Hope that helps someone.


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## KBinSATX

Oh that's perfect. I found the Washing Soda at my rinky-dink little grocery store but they didn't have Simple Green so I was going to pick some up today while I am in town.


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## mom2alicia

i emailed soapworks and asked directly if their product has optical brighteners in it and it does! i read the entire box and nowhere on the box does it say anything about brighteners, optical or otherwise, and it doesn't have any comments about brightening at all. oh and it has an antiredepositing ingredient. so i guess i'll just use it on our clothes and not dipes. i used the simple green and washing soda last night and it worked great. just wondering both products indicate they "boost" cleaning. to me that sort of implies it should be used in addition to a detergent. what do you think of "boosting" issue. ugh!


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## dharmama

That 800# is great! It tells you 5 stores where washing soda has been purchased in the last 90 days near your zip code.

I just picked some up at my grocery store (Stop and Shop) and found Simple Green at BJ's Warehouse. The Simple Green had a free refill pack attached to the sprayer bottle! Can't wait to try it!


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## ChinaMomKaren

Which version of Bi-O-Kleen is ok and which are not?
I use Bi-O-Kleen Premium Plus Powder and it seems to work well for me.

I totally agree about the problems with laundry detergents these days. This was much easier 8 years ago.


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## ChinaMomKaren

One other thing about Washing Soda. It works in the wash because it has a very high pH. A pH of 11y. It's caustic (as oppposed to acidic). Too much will wear out your diapers and turn hemp hard (at least in my experience it did).

High pH is great in the hot wash, but you must rinse it completely. You might even want to use some vinegar (which has a low pH) in you first rinse, to get the pH of diapers at about 7 to 7.4. Urine is acidic, so starting a little high in pH is ok.

Too high a pH diaper will cause rash, just like acid diapers will cause a burn-looking rash. So don't overdo vinegar either. Town water is already pH adjusted, but well water users can have a challenge with pH.

I stopped doing an extra rinse, and instead do a short hot wash cycle with nothing in it at the end, instead of the extra rinse. Extra rinse was not enough for me.

I can't stand the smell of Simple Green (my husband uses it to wash the tires on our truck), but I do think that method will be very effective.


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## Mama~Love

Yikes, this is so confusing. I need a chemistry degree to figure it out







.


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## KBinSATX

So ChinaMomKaren, does the SG do anything to up or down pH as well?


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## mom2alicia

what about Planet? i was just looking at their website and it looks like they don't use any additives. they specifically mention they don't use any optical brighteners. it looks like it is coconut oil and soda ash and borax. anyone know about Planet and how it works for dipes?


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## KBinSATX

I thought one of the things to avoid were oils ... coconut oil, etc.


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## mudder17

Yikes, does this mean that TTO and Peppermint oil and Eucalyptus oils are a big no-no? I had some on some wipes and then tossed the wipes in the diaper wash without thinking. Now all my diapers smell like peppermint oil. Do I need to wash them all with a squirt of Dawn or can I just use the diapers this time and then use Dawn with the next wash?

Thanks!


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## tropicalmom

Brenda:

You're wonderful!!

I second the motion to make this a permanent sticky. Too important for anyone to miss, both the experienced and new CDers.


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## Nickarolaberry

Just bought a HUGE bottle of Simple Green at WalMart (in the auto section, btw) and 2 boxes of Washing Soda at my local market. Everything together cost $6.89. Less than a box of detergent.

Do you also use this on all your clothes? This definitely makes life easier, I should say.

When I do diapers, I run a cold wash, then a hot wash, and sometimes a cold rinse after, depending on how nasty the diapers were. Which wash do I put this mixture in? In the past I've always put the detergent in the hot wash.

Thanks!


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## Jessica-Ann

Hi,

I have a front loader and tried the WS/SG as described in Brenda's directions, put it in the detergent slot and set the machine, diapers came out smelling clean, I could smell the SG though, so maybe need to cut back on that a little, but I liked the results, worked much better than my Sportswash has worked lately.

They are drying now, so hopefully they will smell as clean as they did when I put them in the dryer.

Jess


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## autumn_faune

oh man am I glad I called that number first. There is only ONE place within 100 miles that carries it, none within 50. ugh.

Going to try a chemical supply place!


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## *Jessica*

I'm so glad someone mentioned Simple Green because I was about to shell out money I don't really have for Allen's ($$$$$). I'm not sure cloth diapers would continue to be affordable with the price of that detergent, but $5 for SG I can handle. Thanks!


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## Nickarolaberry

I've been doing the SG/WashingSoda combo for a couple weeks now and









Once I ran out of regular detergent I also started it with my regular laundry, and no problems. I do add a little fabric softener (Downy Ultra) to the regular wash, but no issues with the dipes.


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## autumn_faune

okay ladies...

If you can't find the washing soda near you *like me*

Try a pool supply place. I got a 50lb bag of soda ash for $27.


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## BrendaW

Hello! Brenda again. I've gotten more private emails, so I thought I'd return again. First, you all have been very helpful. I'm very interested in your experiences. Particularly those of you with front loaders. I'm still in the top-loading age.

1. Your feedback has caused me to cut back on the recommended amount. I was estimating the tablespoons in something that wasn't actually a tablespoon. 1/2-1 Tbs will probably do. 2 is probably too much, and accounts for those of you who still smelled the simple green after the wash. Front loaders may be able to get by with just a squirt or two (real scientific measurements, huh?)

2. I think some people may be confusing Baking Soda and Washing soda. Especially since Baking Soda is easier to find and also comes in big boxes from Arm and Hammer. Baking soda is "sodium BIcarbonate" and is fine in the wash, but won't do what Washing Soda does. Washing soda is "sodium carbonate", also known as "soda ash". Just be sure you're getting the right one. It can be hard to track down for some of you (for me, it's in my regular grocery store near, but not with, the detergents.) Kudos to the person who recommended looking at a pool supply store. You're right - it's the same thing.

3. I've not seen the yellow Simple Green myself, but as far as I can tell, it's the same thing, just a different scent. Should work just the same.

4. And just a further explanation of why I thought this would work:
Washing soda (also called "soda ash" or "sodium carbonate") is the basis of most detergents. They add surfactants and other things. It's the "other things" we're trying to avoid. But we need a surfactant. That's what the simple green provides, in a biodegradable, non-toxic format.

Residue free detergents are usually mostly Washing Soda. Charlie's Soap (the one I recommend, mostly because it seems to be the best buy, though I think sensi-clean/sportswash and Allen's are also fine) contains "only pure washing soda, sodium silicates and a blend of mild coconut oil surfactants." Natural Choices' "oxyboost" is "soda ash, sodium percarbonate, and surfactants" (sodium percarbonate is oxygen bleach - like oxyclean.) That made me think I could approximate (though not duplicate) their detergents at home, more cheaply, since Washing Soda is widely available. All we needed was a surfactant. Or something WITH surfactants: my chemical engineering friend suggested Simple Green.

What's missing, of course, is that "sodium silicate". Sodium silicate is sand and soda ash combined at a high temperature. Silicates increase the effectiveness of surfactants -they scatter grease and dirt deposits into small, suspended particles which rinse away without redepositing on freshly washed surfaces. So something like Charlie's, which was put together by chemists and people who have worked in the textile industry for years, is almost certainly superior to a home-made concoction, but for a "thrifty" person like me, my home version is close enough and has served me well so far. (you can get sodium silicates online, and automatic dishwashing powders have it, but if I was going to go that far to try to duplicate Charlie's, I'd just order Charlie's!)

Mainly, it's cheap, safe for people and the environment, approximates (though admittedly doesn't duplicate) most of the residue free detergents out there, and the ingredients are handy all around the house for non-toxic cleaning.

5. Someone asked about adding Borax. From my preliminary questions, it seems that it may actually do a little extra whitening, if you use hot water (which I don't.) So sure, Borax is fine to add to the mix if you use hot water and want to experiment with that. I'd like to hear your results if you do. (Although personally, if I wanted to use hot water and whiten things, I'd go with sodium PERcarbonate - oxy cleaners - before Borax.)


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## BrendaW

By the way, in double-checking that I had the "oxy-boost" ingredients correct, I noticed that they have their detergent on sale for the month of February for 40% off. The residue-free detergents all have such similar formulations - go with whatever you find on sale (in othe words, there's nothing magic about Allen's or Sportwash - they're all very similar.)


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## mollyeilis

Arm and Hammer *does* make a box of Washing Soda. They call it Super Washing Soda, but the only ingredient listed on it is calcium carbonate.

And I haven't seen it anywhere near the baking soda, so it would be hard to confuse it.

The practice that Target has of keeping the Simple Green in the car supply section (as a tire washer) could cause confusion, but not the placement of washing vs baking soda.


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## It's me!

soda is when people don't know what they are looking for AND the store doesn't carry it. Arm & Hammer does now make a BIG box of Baking Powder that is kept in the washing isle in some stores (just saw it last week) It is an orange box (like the smaller ones) but big like the washing soda box (which is yellow). If someone isn't sure what they are looking for AND the store only has the big box of Baking Powder, it can get confusing. The best thing I found when I first was looking for stuff was to search it online so I could see a picture and go from there. Some places have washing soda in every store, some places only have it in one and some in none. I live in one of those places that only carries it in ONE store (I'm not in New York, but not a small town by any stretch), so calling around after hitting your fav. store is not a bad idea (althought if they don't know what you are talking about it may be futile) I went to the Arm & Hammer website to find out what store in my area carried it. Between purchases, one stopped carrying it and I had to do it all over again. It's been about 2 yrs. since I bought any and I will have to check again before I drive 40 minutes across town to the store that had it last time! LOL


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## fremontmama

I couldnt find Arm and Hammer Washing Soda in the about 3 or 4 different stores that I tried, so I gave up and tried to find the detergent with the least ingredients in our local co-op store. It's called Country Save and seems to be working pretty well with our fuzzibunz, which I had thought dd was wetting so heavily it was leaking, but actually just needed to be stripped. We have also added a shot of Simple Green to the Country Save, and it has worked like a charm. No leaking even with just two stuffers in fb at night!


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## boscopup

Rather than driving around to different stores looking for washing soda, just call the 800 number. It's voice activated (which is somewhat annoying - just let me press buttons!), but it tells you up to 5 stores within 50 miles of your zip code that have sold washing soda in the last 90 days. Mine were all Kroger stores in 4 different cities, so I guess that's the only chain that sells it in my area!

1-800-524-1328


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## fremontmama

I didn't have to do any extra driving around, I just looked at the different stores I hit during regular grocery shopping trips.







I tried Kmart, Fred Meyer, Safeway, QFC, Bartell's, Whole Foods and the local natural foods Co-op (PCC). A couple of these are in our neighborhood, so we always walk to them. I should try the 800 number though. When I run out of this Country Save stuff I probably will. It seems to be working pretty well though.....

Anyone else ever try the Country Save detergent? What were your long term results? We have only been using it on the diapers for about a month now......


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## anniegirl

Fremontmama do you really live in Fremont, as in Seattle? I live in the Maple Leaf neighborhood. I know that the QFC on Roosevelt and 66th carries A&H washing soda as well as the QFC on Roosevelt and 100something (up by Northgate). I just bought a box of it at that one a few weeks ago.

I've been curious to try Country Save but never have. I have an enormous box of the Trader Joes powder detergent that has the optical brighteners in it, grrrrrr. I bought it before I read this thread. I'm trying to use up what I have before I buy more. I've become a detergent junky.


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## Jessica-Ann

I have a front loader and have been using the SG/WS and it is working like a charm, no more stinky diapers. I don't seem to be having build up and everything smells really clean.

Jess


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## Mama~Love

Quote:


Originally Posted by *autumn_faune*
okay ladies...

If you can't find the washing soda near you *like me*

Try a pool supply place. I got a 50lb bag of soda ash for $27.

Can I ask what it was called at the pool supply store? I've seen stuff like that at Wal-Mart, but not sure if it's the pH + or the pH - or something like that. I'll have to look closer the next time I'm there.


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## detergentdiva

Wow, huge thread on detergents. Just figured I would add my $.02 especially since pocket diapers were mentioned and I have tested many brands very heavily.

I saw oil surfactants mentioned quite a few times. This is the main concern with pocket diapers. Some brands will say that they do have any oil surfactants in them but the reality is, when a "natural" detergent is made they crush the natural seeds up, they mix the seeds surfactant. This mixing is what puts the crushed seed into the form needed so the basic ingredients can then be turned into the detergent.
Most "natural" and "free and clear" detergents have this.

OK, on to my spiel about diapers and washing. I talk to countless people daily about diapers and the biggest concern is washing. My opinion is if it is a science project you are doing WAY TOO MUCH. It should not be, unless you are like me and you are making it into a science project for a reason.
The use of detergents with whiteners does not cause a build up on fleece.
Build up is typically caused by:
detergent with oils
rash cream
diapers not being cleaned.

This last one IMO is quite important. Since the whole front loader issues came to light a few years ago we started recommending that you use a lot less detergent. Unfortunately over the last couple of years I have found that this is actually creating problems. People are using such small amounts of detergent that theirs diapers are actually not even getting clean. This will also cause smelly diapers. The diapers come out looking clean but baby pees and it hits you, you know the smell I am talking about.
So please re-think your using less to no detergent. What you need is if your machine calls for 1 cup, use 1/2 cup.

Some specific detergents:
sensi-clean/sportwash These are both the same exact thing. There is a claim made that the detergent washes out completely clear. This is not always the truth. If you wash your diapers and they have a bit of a metallic smell, don't use them. You need to wash and wash and wash until the smell is one. There are some components that will cause a nasty burn. It does not happen often but I had enough complaints on top of my own experience that we no longer recommend it.
Baby detergents: like purex, ivory, dreft, and method for baby. The problem with these is that they are typically very mild detergents and you will not get your diapers clean.
Bi-O-Kleen: I went round and round with them, they claimed that there were no surfactants in their detergent. We actually found their product specs online and in the very early stages of manufacturing the surfactants are used. Bac-Out from bi-o-kleen is just fine to use on your diapers.
Finally the very basics of anything with a fabric softener. This is bad for your fleece on diapers like pockets. BUT if you are using say a fleece cover or pul cover that is supposed to be water-proof yet it looses some of it's water-proofness, use a tad of fabric softener and it will help to restore it to the way it was.

Finally, I get the questions of should I add vinegar or baking soda or bleach or.......
My opinion is that you do not add anything unless you need to. Realistically the things like fleece build up is not just because of the detergent but usually the detergent on top of the water type, the minerals in the water. Is it hard or soft. So don't add anything unless you need to. Do not make your wash routine more difficult then it needs to be. Frankly, I personally hate laundry day and if I can't through it in the wash then through it in the dryer, I don't want to do it.
If you are having problems then add the additive that will work for that problem. If it is regular build up then try adding 1/2 teaspoon dawn to the wash. This will work miracles and it is no stress.

Things that have been minimally tested with no bad effects:
simple green although I would not feel comfortable using this all the time. In our testing it worked.
Oxy-clean, this has worked great with stubborn build up. I tested this a few times using large amounts and had no adverse effects on my pul. There are some say they have had issues so be careful if you try this.

In short, my favorite wash routine and what I recommend for everyone who uses our happy heiny's products:
I prefer tide, prewash, add 1/2 cup tide, then let the wash do it's job with an extra rinse at the end. Then throw them in the dryer or if you hang dry hang them up.
super easy and super simple









If you are not using certain detergents for personal reason then just remember that most often the regular store brands are typically some of the best ones to use.
Hope this helps out a lot. Over the last few years since we have been in business, I have learned way more about detergents then I ever needed to learn, but I have always felt it was best for me to actually test a product before I could tell a customer that it was either bad or good. All of our recommendations come from rigorous testing.
If you have any questions you can email me at [email protected]


----------



## mollyeilis

Quote:


Originally Posted by *detergentdiva*
I prefer tide, prewash, add 1/2 cup tide, then let the wash do it's job with an extra rinse at the end.

OMG you had me until you mentioned Tide. Ugh.

Why are you unsure of Simple Green?

I will say that I love our one Happy Heiny!







Are you the creator of them?

Gotta say, since I've been using the SG/WS combo, and especially in the last two washes when I've decreased the SG to one tablespoon (which still makes nice suds before I add the dipes), the dipes have been smell free, have held pee better, feel softer, and weirdly, once I reduced the SG to 1 tblsp, the cotton in the Bumkins has fluffed up. It's a bit mystifying, that last one, but I'm not complaining.









I went through SO many things in washing these dipes. I can't use anything simple like Tide, as the smell is so raunchy and it makes me itch. And this SG/WS is sooooo easy.









*******
At a pool supply store, it seems to be called "soda ash".


----------



## detergentdiva

Tide is just my preference. I have a nose for weird smells and ironically the tide is one of the few detergents that does not bother me smell wise. Yeah I know weird you don't need to tell me









The only reason I say that I am unsure of the SG is because I did not test tat heavily so I can't say that I am 100% for it. The amount of people who I know who have used it as a detergent is not very high. So for anything that I can't give a 99.9% yes or no to I don't like to recommend to highly. I have not had any bad effects as I said in my post, I am just a bit cautious of it until more people can test it. It's tough for me now that I don't have anyone in diapers









Yup I make the Happy Heiny's and the Heather Sanders gave me the "detergentdiva" name a couple years ago here because of all the research I did with detergents in relation to pocket diapers


----------



## stephmomtoabby

LOL-Linda, I swear by Tide. I have been washing dipes for over 2.5 years now, from newborn through potty training, and never used anything other than good old Tide. I don't even rinse at the end, just an auto soak for maybe 10 minutes, Tide wash, and hot dry.....never any problems


----------



## boingo82

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brinda*
What about method? I haven't heard anything about it one way or the other.

I would NOT use it. It contains enzymes, which activate to digest organic matter. Good for getting muck out of laundry. BAD for your baby's skin...it literally ate through my child's bum. It did not matter how fast we changed him.


----------



## fremontmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *anniegirl*
Fremontmama do you really live in Fremont, as in Seattle? I live in the Maple Leaf neighborhood. I know that the QFC on Roosevelt and 66th carries A&H washing soda as well as the QFC on Roosevelt and 100something (up by Northgate). I just bought a box of it at that one a few weeks ago.

I've been curious to try Country Save but never have. I have an enormous box of the Trader Joes powder detergent that has the optical brighteners in it, grrrrrr. I bought it before I read this thread. I'm trying to use up what I have before I buy more. I've become a detergent junky.









Yup! We live in Seattle







Good to know you found the washing soda at another QFC. We didn't find it at the QFC in Wallingford or the Fred Meyer in Fremont. It's not likely we will be stopping at the Northgate QFC, but we swing through Roosevelt sometimes......

That being said, so far the Country Save is working out really great for us. It only has about 4 or 5 ingredients. The website says that it has super super low residue, and that seems to be the case. We have been adding a couple tablespoons of Simple Green too for good measure.


----------



## zaner'smama

Brenda,
Just wanted to add another thank you for all of your research, and for taking the time to share. I really appreciate it!








I have been using arm & hammer for years (upon recommendation from Mother Earth News), but had no idea that their formula had changed. Ugh!
I must say your SG&WS formula is working wonderfully for us! I am all about saving some money and using as few chemicals/ingredients as possible. Woohoo! BTW, we use SG for all kinds of house cleaning and buy it by the gallon at Lowes (I believe). Great stuff!

~Betsy


----------



## boscopup

Linda, I want to thank you for your post. In the beginning when I first got hemp stink, I tried upping the amount of detergent, and that didn't work, but I was also using All F&C, which seems to cause buildup if you just look at it.







Even the little measuring cup that comes with it had buildup that would NOT wash out! I tried Sportswash, but it didn't seem to get stuff clean for me. I tried baking soda, vinegar... nothing worked. I switched to Tide, and it worked better, but I still got the hemp stink (and yes I stripped and stripped and stripped again). Bleach took care of the hemp stink, but I'd prefer not to use it if I don't have to, as I do have a septic tank. At the time that I switched to Tide, I think I was using a very small amount of detergent. It takes VERY little to get suds in my water. But... I don't think that amount actually cleans. I was having trouble with some of my FBs retaining poop smell in the microfleece, and the washing soda/SG didn't take care of it.

So after reading your posts last night, I decided to take one of the stinky hemp diapers (smells like skunk as soon as he pees in it), plus all of the FBs, and wash them with some new fabric I was pre-washing for a 3rd time (also hemp, actually







), and I used 1/4 cup Tide. Previously, I'd been using less than that, even when I was trying to use a larger amount. The recommended amount is about 1/2 cup for a medium load, and I'm doing a small load. But the 1/4 cup I used last night seemed to do the trick!

Today, I tried that stinky skunk hemp diaper on the boy, and after he peed, I picked him up and sniffed.







NO SKUNK SMELL!!!!!!! I changed his diaper, took a closer whiff... My hemp doesn't stink AT ALL!







My FBs all came out smelling MUCH better too.

That hemp diaper is a fitted that is hemp on the outside and has a hemp soaker (inside is sherpa and quick-dry soaker is topped with velour). So it's a good amount of hemp in there.

I'm sold... I'm going to keep up with 1/4 cup of Tide and see how that goes long term. It helps to actually MEASURE it.







The measuring cup that comes with it has 1, 2, 3. 1/4 cup is just a little bit below the 1. The 2 is 1/2 cup (but 1 is not half of 2!). I was previously using about 1/2 of the 1 or less, and that just wasn't enough, I guess! The suds on top of the water were about 3" high, but hey, my diapers are CLEAN! I'm very happy!


----------



## JenMidwife

This is such a helpful thread! I wish I had found it sooner


----------



## CalebsMama05

I'm still reading through this but I think i'll use the SG+WS on my diapers/covers until the all free and clear is gone adn then using it on all our laundry. is that okay or will it hurt my clothes?


----------



## amberthesugarcat

Unfortunately the SG/Washing Soda gave my ds a rash...

But I did find out like PPs that using MORE detergent got rid of my stink! Now I just do a cold wash, then a hot wash/cold rinse with a medium load worth of Sun or Purex F&C and my stink is gone!!! I was only using a few tbsps of detergent before and they were not getting clean. I have softened well water.

Tide breaks my ds out since it has enzymes. Darn it because it cleans sooooo well!


----------



## KayleeZoo

Quote:

LOL-Linda, I swear by Tide. I have been washing dipes for over 2.5 years now, from newborn through potty training, and never used anything other than good old Tide. I don't even rinse at the end, just an auto soak for maybe 10 minutes, Tide wash, and hot dry.....never any problems
Yep, me too. I've been washing dipes for 5 years (nb through pt, too!) and Tide has been the best, most consistent detergent for me. My dipes last forever, no premature wearing out- not much fading, etc. and they smell clean. I don't hot dry, though, I hang them. The one problem I had was when I tried to add TTO (it gave dd #2 a horrid rash) and when I tried less detergent, then stuff got stinky.

Oh- and we have super hard water, too.


----------



## CalebsMama05

great! I called the A&H number and none were sold here...there was exactly 5 sold in 90 days and all in omaha.

what was the second best? there's no way I can get someone to drive me an hour to a store for one box of washing soda!

I did get the simple green though.


----------



## anniegirl

What a bummer CalebsMama!

A couple other ideas for you:
Order it off the internet (although the shipping may be too much for it to be worth it)
Washing soda is also called soda ash. I think pool supply stores carry it and maybe a few other places. You will have to ask for soda ash or sodium carbonate, they might not know what you're asking for if you say "washing soda".


----------



## CalebsMama05

I got it off soap gone buy. I bought two boxes and the shipping was the same as the 2boxes!


----------



## CalebsMama05

which btw is having a sale until March 31st. $3.85 or something like that for a 55oz box.


----------



## momtoNatalee

So Tide works for some but not others?? I grocery shop at Publix and Brenda said that their brand is fine to use so I'm going to try that.


----------



## BCmamaof6

:


----------



## CalebsMama05

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BCmamaof5*







:

I agree


----------



## wawoof

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KayleeZoo*
Yep, me too. I've been washing dipes for 5 years (nb through pt, too!) and Tide has been the best, most consistent detergent for me. My dipes last forever, no premature wearing out- not much fading, etc. and they smell clean. I don't hot dry, though, I hang them. The one problem I had was when I tried to add TTO (it gave dd #2 a horrid rash) and when I tried less detergent, then stuff got stinky.

Oh- and we have super hard water, too.

Do you use liquid or powder tide?


----------



## mollyeilis

To the person who mentioned using the WS/SG on all their clothes- we've been using them on most washes recently, and it's going very well.

To the person whose child got a rash...how much SG are you using? The OP revised her suggested amount to far less than 2 tblsp. Also, note that the new (as of a few months ago) Purex F&C has brighteners, which will build up.

Sigh, I wish I could use something simple like Tide, but *to me* the smell of it is just soooo heinous and I used to break out with it (don't know what it's like on me anymore b/c the smell and the risk aren't worth it)...

******
I've been using the SG/WS combo since this thread was started...my diapers are all new, it seems! The inserts have puffed up, they hold more, it's all just genius. Now, I have a challenge from my son who is conscious of his peeing now and will hold it all night (10-12 hours) and then let it ALL out in a massive flood all at once. Too much for any diaper, I think.







But at least I don't think it's being caused by build-up, not anymore!


----------



## KayleeZoo

Quote:

Do you use liquid or powder tide?
liquid


----------



## wawoof

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KayleeZoo*
liquid

Thanks!


----------



## CalebsMama05

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mollyeilis*
To the person who mentioned using the WS/SG on all their clothes- we've been using them on most washes recently, and it's going very well.

Thank you!


----------



## sparkprincess

I just wanted to add a quick note re: Method. I noticed they have a F&C detergent, but when I emailed them about it they said it does contain brighteners. Blah.

I've been using the SG/WS method for 2 months now and no problems. However, I am a newbie to cloth so not sure yet if this method is causing any excessive wear on my diapers yet.


----------



## dharmama

Is anyone using washing soda/simple green in a front loader?

My DH is installing my new (first floor







) washer/dryer today!!! So...now I have to figure out how to wash my dipes and other clothes in a FL.


----------



## Sarah'sMama

IT WORKS!!! IT WORKS!!!!

OH HAPPY DAY! SG/WS GOT RID OF MY STINK!








:







:







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:







:







:







:







:







:







:







:







:







:







:







:







:







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:







:







:







:







:







:








to Brenda! THANK YOU!

ps-I used 3 or 4 squirts of SG and 5 or 6 Tbsp of WS. I forgot the proper ratio, anyone care to enlighten me? Oh, and dharmama, I have a Maytag Neptune front loader, and the combo got rid of the stink!


----------



## trini

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sarah'sMama*

ps-I used 3 or 4 squirts of SG and 5 or 6 Tbsp of WS. I forgot the proper ratio, anyone care to enlighten me? Oh, and dharmama, I have a Maytag Neptune front loader, and the combo got rid of the stink!

I don't know if it's different for frontloaders, but I think she finally settled on 1/2-1 T SG and 1/4 c WS.

I used SG and WS for the first time yesterday and found that ~10 squirts of SG = 1 T.


----------



## Sarah'sMama

Thanks Trini!


----------



## Sarah'sMama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *trini*
I used SG and WS for the first time yesterday and found that ~10 squirts of SG = 1 T.

I had to chuckle, I have this mental picture of someone with a little TBSP squirting SG into it, and playing mad scientist!









any of you in the northeast, I found my washing soda at hannaford. I called the 800 number, and ALL of the stores they listed were Hannafords, so that might hopefully help someone.


----------



## mollyeilis

Quote:


Originally Posted by *trini*
I used SG and WS for the first time yesterday and found that ~10 squirts of SG = 1 T.

For me, it's only 8 squirts to fill my tablespoon measure.









Getting rid of stink...did I mention that DS had what must have been rotavirus at the beginning of March, and although his dipes stank to high heaven for that week, within about 2 normal washes with WS/SG, they were absolutely back to normal, no smell, no stink, nothing. Yay.


----------



## trini

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mollyeilis*
For me, it's only 8 squirts to fill my tablespoon measure.










Well, gee, now I'm going to have to check that again.
















Maybe you're a better squirter than I am.







I was just happy to be able to count squirts instead of using a measuring spoon each time.

Any tips on measuring 1/4 c of washing soda for each load without using a "measuring tool?" That would REALLY make me happy!


----------



## mollyeilis

I've just been pouring the WS into my hand and holding it under the running water. Seems to be about the same amount. I don't always use hot water (in my regular laundry washes) and the WS was clumping rather than dissolving in the cold or warm water, so by holding it in my hand I can feel it dissolve rather than clump, if that makes ANY sense.









Plus it gives the oddest sensation; there is a chemical reaction that causes the WS to heat up as the water hits it.









I think maybe I'm counting foam/suds as actual SG...


----------



## trini

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mollyeilis*
I've just been pouring the WS into my hand and holding it under the running water. Seems to be about the same amount. I don't always use hot water (in my regular laundry washes) and the WS was clumping rather than dissolving in the cold or warm water, so by holding it in my hand I can feel it dissolve rather than clump, if that makes ANY sense.









Plus it gives the oddest sensation; there is a chemical reaction that causes the WS to heat up as the water hits it.









I think maybe I'm counting foam/suds as actual SG...









Okay, now I want ds to poo a lot so I have some diapers to wash so I can try the WS in the hand thing.









And I think you're on to something. I didn't measure the SG foam. I let that rise above the top of the tablespoon.

(And Sarah'smama, I did feel like a bit of a mad scientist!)


----------



## anniegirl

LOL about the how many squirts = 1 tbsp. I did the same thing!







FWIW I came up with 10 squirts as well. This system has been working great for me.

I started using only five squirts a couple weeks ago (wanting to avoid doing an extra rinse), that worked well for a while, but I noticed the last couple of loads don't smell so clean so I'm going back to 10 squirts.

For the washing soda I've been using a scoop from an empty box of biokleen I had laying around. The scoop is just slightly less than 1/4 cup (yep, used my measuring cup to figure out that one too







). I like doing it this way for two reasons: scooping seems less hastle than pouring, and I don't like the WS dust in the air when I pour it. It's pretty caustic stuff, so I don't want anyone breathing it. I just peeled back the top of the box, but I think I'm going to put it in the empty biokleen box. I don't like the top being open and it's a pain to scoop as the box gets low.

Man, I sound obsessed.


----------



## trini

Quote:


Originally Posted by *anniegirl*
LOL about the how many squirts = 1 tbsp. I did the same thing!







FWIW I came up with 10 squirts as well. This system has been working great for me.

I started using only five squirts a couple weeks ago (wanting to avoid doing an extra rinse), that worked well for a while, but I noticed the last couple of loads don't smell so clean so I'm going back to 10 squirts.

For the washing soda I've been using a scoop from an empty box of biokleen I had laying around. The scoop is just slightly less than 1/4 cup (yep, used my measuring cup to figure out that one too







). I like doing it this way for two reasons: scooping seems less hastle than pouring, and I don't like the WS dust in the air when I pour it. It's pretty caustic stuff, so I don't want anyone breathing it. I just peeled back the top of the box, but I think I'm going to put it in the empty biokleen box. I don't like the top being open and it's a pain to scoop as the box gets low.

Man, I sound obsessed.









No, no, not obsessed at all! I can't believe I forgot I have so many scoops at school that we use when we study measurement. Surely I have one that will be just perfect for the WS. I hate the little cardboard pour spout thingy. I will definitely look for an alternative container. (I will not rest until I find the perfect container for the WS.







)

Oh, and there are lots of numbers between 5 and 10, so you might want to experiment to find the "perfect" number of squirts of SG.


----------



## anniegirl

Quote:

Oh, and there are lots of numbers between 5 and 10, so you might want to experiment to find the "perfect" number of squirts of SG.
Thanks for the tip!








I actually did give 6 and 7 a whirl. 8 and 9 seemed awfully close to 10. I might bust those out though.


----------



## JenMidwife

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dharmama*
Is anyone using washing soda/simple green in a front loader?

My DH is installing my new (first floor







) washer/dryer today!!! So...now I have to figure out how to wash my dipes and other clothes in a FL.

I'm pretty sure people talked about using the SG/WS combo in a front loader earlier on this thread (with success). Have a read through earlier posts. Congrats on the new washer & dryer!


----------



## heket

So does the SG/ WS combo work for the holey hemp issues I seem to get? Granted, some of our hemp is on it's 7th, 8th, 9th lifetime, but some that I do have that's newer seems to be going that same route...

Can anyone comment as to how their dipes seem to be holding up after prolonged use of SG/ WS?


----------



## CalebsMama05

oooh now i'll have to buy the squirt bottle! I have a 2 liter bottle but oh well it'll all get used eventually. I was thinking of buying one of those tupperware tubs to put the washing soda in...I have 2 boxes coming lol and i want it to be easier to store.

I will have to look around the storage section of walmart next time i am there...


----------



## dharmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JenMidwife*
I'm pretty sure people talked about using the SG/WS combo in a front loader earlier on this thread (with success). Have a read through earlier posts. Congrats on the new washer & dryer!









Thanks. I did a search and found quite a few posts from FL users.


----------



## mollyeilis

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heket*
So does the SG/ WS combo work for the holey hemp issues I seem to get? Granted, some of our hemp is on it's 7th, 8th, 9th lifetime, but some that I do have that's newer seems to be going that same route...

Can anyone comment as to how their dipes seem to be holding up after prolonged use of SG/ WS?


Well, our MOE and cottonbabies inserts have puffed up a bit since using the combo, and they've also softened, which I thought was odd but cool.









As for the hemp, our JoeyBunz haven't gotten any worse (though we only have two) and our old-style Rumpsters were retired (due to massive holes and ripping) before I found this idea. So I guess it isn't hurting the JB anymore, but I don't know if that's just b/c they had reached a level of holiness they were comfy with, or b/c of the ws/sg.


----------



## rozzie'sma

i just ordered from soapsgonebuy.com and the washing soda is on SALE this month. It's 3.95 a box


----------



## rozzie'sma

i just ordered from soapsgonebuy.com and the washing soda is on SALE this month. It's 3.95 a box


----------



## mommy2noah

Add me to the 'Thanks so much for this thread' list. It has really opened my eyes. I'm trying my very first SG/WS wash right now so we'll see how it goes. I've been using Tide since I started CDing (and on clothes long before that), and I've always had elastic issues. I tried changing all kinds of stuff (except the Tide because who would suspect that), but recently when my son was diagnosed (finally through a biopsy) with one of the worst cases of eczema ever seen in these parts I did a bit of research and found out that Tide is like THE harshest detergent one can buy. At this point I totally blame it for my elastic issues (you mamas don't even know how many gorgeous FM dipes have died in this household and it still kills me). And before anybody says anything, I wash every two days (religiously), dry on low, rinse, rinse, and rinse again, and just about every other thing I've read on here to keep elastic from dying. So, I'm very optimistic that the SG/WS method will do the trick for me and I won't lose too many more dipes (quite a few are well on their way out and too far gone to be saved).


----------



## HeatherB

Wow! I have a big bottle of Simple Green that I bought for general cleaning and with the idea of trying it on diapers. I am very interested in trying that method now. Though I may try the "more" detergent, too, as I've had varying stink issues. Still suds, though, so I keep thinking it's buildup, even though I tend to do a LOT of rinsing.

So, I'm wondering, on the "more detergent may be better" idea, what do you do when it leaves TONS of suds? FWIW, I've been using Tide HE liquid in our top loader (with the idea of less sudsing)...


----------



## nichole

Add trader's joe detergent to the no-no's list. we have been having problems with repelling and i looked. it has optical brighteners. blah.


----------



## dharmama

Front loader users....a quick question....

Do you put the WS and the SG in your detergent dispenser or do you spray the SG in with the laundry?


----------



## peekyboo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dharmama*
Front loader users....a quick question....

Do you put the WS and the SG in your detergent dispenser or do you spray the SG in with the laundry?

I put the WS in the detergent section, then started it, and then when the water started running, poured some SG in there.

I've been using Tide all this time, adn have always had a little bit of diaper funk. I added more Tide and that seemed to help. I tried the SG/WS on a load last week and my diapers smelled like...cloth. Just the cloth. It was pretty cool. Of course, I probably looked a little weird, with my nose pressed into a diaper...


----------



## dharmama

Quote:

I put the WS in the detergent section, then started it, and then when the water started running, poured some SG in there.
Thanks. I think my detergent tray locks when the wash starts.







I'll have to double check that....might just be when I have the child lock on.


----------



## Munchkingirl

So, I used Purex for the last two weeks and now know that it has the brighteners. Does that mean my covers and pockets are already ruined and should just be tossed or can I redeem them over time?


----------



## mollyeilis

You can redeem them.







I used all sorts of things with brighteners, unknowingly, and was able to redeem DS's dipes.









I just stripped them and then started using the WS/SG combo (though I'm sure using any of the other OK detergents would have worked as well), and they've gotten better and better!


----------



## CalebsMama05

for the person that was substituting baking soda for washing soda how did that turn out? i'm reluctant to wash ds's new dipes in all f&c but haven't recieved my washing soda...


----------



## nikilabove

Anyone know what is actually in Simple Green? I have looked on their website and they claim they will not give out the list of what they put in it.
This makes me quite wary on using it, esp since it is used for cleaning tires....not sure I want something that strong on the diapers that go on my babies bum.


----------



## CalebsMama05

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nikilabove*
Anyone know what is actually in Simple Green? I have looked on their website and they claim they will not give out the list of what they put in it.
This makes me quite wary on using it, esp since it is used for cleaning tires....not sure I want something that strong on the diapers that go on my babies bum.

the only reason i am not hesitating is because it is SUCH a small amount. I dont like the laundry detergent just because so much is used and also they have so much buildup it all stays on the laundry. ick.

I guess its a personal choice


----------



## mollyeilis

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nikilabove*
Anyone know what is actually in Simple Green? I have looked on their website and they claim they will not give out the list of what they put in it.
This makes me quite wary on using it, esp since it is used for cleaning tires....not sure I want something that strong on the diapers that go on my babies bum.

The SG is put in the car section b/c it has the ability to cut grease. Just like Dawn dishwashing detergent (also touted to help strip diapers).

If anything, my son's bum has been *better* since we've been using it.









It's maybe one tablespoon in an ENTIRE load of wash. I don't worry about it one little bit.

Especially when compared to the mysterious things that are in detergents....


----------



## amykoysgirl

Wow! Thanks for all the info....this will help me on my way!


----------



## heathenmom

I tried calling the toll free # to find the nearest place that sells A&H Super Washing Soda, but I couldn't complete the search because I don't have the 10-digit UPC code. Can someone post that, or PM me with it? I'm trying to find out today if there's someplace local that carries it, so that if there's not, I can still get it on sale tonight through soapsgonebuy.com.

Thanks!


----------



## lrmama

The UPC code # is 3320003020. HTH!


----------



## heathenmom

Thank you, thank you!!! There are lots of stores that carry it here.







I have SERIOUSLY got to stop shopping at Wal-Mart.


----------



## rootzdawta

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nikilabove*
Anyone know what is actually in Simple Green? I have looked on their website and they claim they will not give out the list of what they put in it.
This makes me quite wary on using it, esp since it is used for cleaning tires....not sure I want something that strong on the diapers that go on my babies bum.

Simple Green is one of the few cleaners out there that doesn't send my allergies into a tizzy. Plus, it is, like a pp said, a small amount. I also use vinegar in my first rinse and do an extra rinse. I was watching ds's skin very closely when I started with the SG and everything is just fine. Not to mention that the SG/WS combo really and totally works--even for my once persistently stinky hemp! I'm sold.


----------



## CalebsMama05

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heathenmom*
Thank you, thank you!!! There are lots of stores that carry it here.







I have SERIOUSLY got to stop shopping at Wal-Mart.

haha I don't have to STOP shopping at walmart...just exclusively. there actually ARE other good stores out there!


----------



## Mama8

Oh My Gosh! I have been using Bio-Kleen liquid and I just rewashed my clothes using only Calgon water softener and the amount of bubbles that came off my diapers is astounding!














I had even been double rinsing and using vinegar occasionally. I never saw any bubbles in my final rinse. I have been thinking about using the Simple Green and Washing Soda method. Does anyone know if Washing Soda will build up too?


----------



## heket

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nikilabove*
Anyone know what is actually in Simple Green? I have looked on their website and they claim they will not give out the list of what they put in it.
This makes me quite wary on using it, esp since it is used for cleaning tires....not sure I want something that strong on the diapers that go on my babies bum.

See post #11 -- companies aren't required to list their ingredients.


----------



## Mama8

Are you sure that the ws doesn't have bubbles? I am still getting a lot of bubbles on my 3rd wash.


----------



## CalebsMama05

I just got my washing soda today and i'm gonna do my first load of SG/WS diaper laundry. i'm excited


----------



## trijosie-mama

I did my first SG/WS yesterday and I am so happy with how fresh and clean they smelled!! And dd's little bottom was not red at all today!


----------



## heathenmom

I got my WS today too! Sooo happy I found it at Kroger ... it was only $1.99 a box! The first load of dipes is about to come out of the wash and so far so good.


----------



## mollyeilis

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama8*
Are you sure that the ws doesn't have bubbles? I am still getting a lot of bubbles on my 3rd wash.

The SG makes a lot of bubbles, perhaps it's that? I put the WS in first, letting it dissolve, and there are no bubbles. But the SG does have 'em. How much are you using? I've gone down to about 8 squirts, which I thought was a tablespoon, but someone else measured a tablespoon to be TEN squirts. Before, I was using TWO tablespoons







and there were a LOT of bubbles.









I'm using the WS/SG more and more with regular laundry, and it's going great! My towels could be softer, but then, I've ALWAYS (as in, ever since I started doing my own laundry at college at 17 years old) had problems getting towels soft.


----------



## CalebsMama05

i'm doing my first load right now i'm so pleased with the smells in teh washer. the sg smelled funky at first but the washing soda smells so good. i stood over the washer for a minute just sniffing lol before putting any dipes in LoL.

I hope it goes well although i think it will!!


----------



## KBinSATX

Maybe I have hard water. I washed my dipes (this is a prewash to get them ready for use as I don't have anybody to poop into them yet...) and they came out smelling like... nothing. Odorless.


----------



## mollyeilis

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KBinSATX*
Maybe I have hard water. I washed my dipes (this is a prewash to get them ready for use as I don't have anybody to poop into them yet...) and they came out smelling like... nothing. Odorless.

Odorless is good!

While the water is going I can smell the SG (smells like mint, my husband says), but after I smell nothing.

OK, what does the washing soda smell like to you, CalebsMama05? I smell *nothing*, just like baking soda or oxyclean (all related, to my not-so-scientific brain).


----------



## CalebsMama05

it smells like...i'm not sure...maybe its my supersensitive preggo nose. maybe it was the mix of washing soda and simple green. it smelled great!

and it was so nice to take my diapers out of the dryer and smell nothing!! previously they smelled *however faintly* of poo.


----------



## Sarah'sMama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CalebsMama05*
it smells like...i'm not sure...maybe its my supersensitive preggo nose. maybe it was the mix of washing soda and simple green. it smelled great!

and it was so nice to take my diapers out of the dryer and smell nothing!! previously they smelled *however faintly* of poo.

I've been checking for your update, I know how excited you were to try the combo. I can't believe it works, but I love it! Glad it worked for you!


----------



## soladeo

I thought I had read that washing soda is too caustic for diapers??







:

Yes, as of this fall, you can get Simple Green in large all-purpose containers. I bought some on sale and it has lasted a LOOOONG time.

I too was using Purex Free and Clear after I forgot to buy more Sportswash before deer season was over. Around here it's gone by November. ARRGH!

I am so going for the washing soda/Simple Green idea, though, again, I'm concerned about the washing soda.

Great thread!!


----------



## lrmama

I tried using washing soda, and my dd ended up with a horrible rash, even after running an extra whole cycle to rinse. And I don't know if this is connected, but she's never had a skin problem before and now she's got excema, too.


----------



## CalebsMama05

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lrmama*
I tried using washing soda, and my dd ended up with a horrible rash, even after running an extra whole cycle to rinse. And I don't know if this is connected, but she's never had a skin problem before and now she's got excema, too.

im sry that happened to you. I ran an extra cycle to rinse as well.


----------



## Mollyred

Washing soda is very harsh stuff. It is right up there next to bleach but not quite as bad. It is found in powdered detergents though anywhere from 15% to 50% according to some MSDS sheets I looked up on detergents. 1/4 cup is a lot of washing soda. I tried using this much and ended up with rash. I do have very soft water which is the hardest to deal with cloth diaper washing.


----------



## Mollyred

Washing soda is very harsh stuff. It is right up there next to bleach but not quite as bad. It is found in powdered detergents though anywhere from 15% to 50% according to some MSDS sheets I looked up on detergents. 1/4 cup is a lot of washing soda. I tried using this much and ended up with rash. I do have very soft water which is the hardest to deal with cloth diaper washing.


----------



## wawoof

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mollyred*
Washing soda is very harsh stuff. It is right up there next to bleach but not quite as bad. It is found in powdered detergents though anywhere from 15% to 50% according to some MSDS sheets I looked up on detergents. 1/4 cup is a lot of washing soda. I tried using this much and ended up with rash. I do have very soft water which is the hardest to deal with cloth diaper washing.

Interesting. It seems like the problem is that it's hard to make sure *all* of any detergent is washed out of diapers, and some babies react to small amounts of residual detergent, especially when mixed with pee/poop. I've now read about bad reactions to sensiclean/sportwash, all detergents with enzymes, and washing soda. But without strong cleaners, it's hard to get diapers clean and people get stink problems. Agh! Fortunately, Allen's Naturally, super hot water, and a cold soak in bac-out for poopy dipes seems to be working for us.

Where did you find the MSDS sheets on detergent? The ingredient lists on most detergent containers are incredibly vague, and I haven't found anything more useful on detergent makers' websites.


----------



## Nickarolaberry

Well, I have a broken washer so currently my wash routine is...nothing. Argh.

However after a couple months of the WS/SG routine, I also found that ds was getting some rashiness. Plus my dipes were getting super stiff. I am having trouble dealing with wash routines for fuzzibunz, then different ones for prefolds/fitteds, etc. I don't have time to fuss so much.

I'm going to go and bite the bullet and buy some Allen's Naturally. Once I get a new washer, that is.


----------



## wawoof

Quote:


Originally Posted by *My3Kids'Mama*
I'm going to go and bite the bullet and buy some Allen's Naturally. Once I get a new washer, that is.

The good thing is, a bottle of Allen's Naturally goes a long way, especially if you have a front loader...


----------



## mollyeilis

Quote:


Originally Posted by *My3Kids'Mama*
Plus my dipes were getting super stiff. I am having trouble dealing with wash routines for fuzzibunz, then different ones for prefolds/fitteds, etc.

That's weird...our dipes are getting softer and softer!

Why are you doing a different routine? I've got FBs, SBs, their inserts (microfiber and hemp), cotton-inside Bumkins and Kushies AIOs, and the occasional Kissaluv, along with two Little Lambs with varied fabric inserts....all washed together and doing great!

Also, I have very sensitive skin, but I just scoop up a handful of washing soda and "help" it dissolve under the water. Haven't reacted a bit. I know we're all different, but my skin and NO reaction makes me really scratch my head as to how WS could be harsh!


----------



## GotKids?

Good information to know! Thanks!


----------



## wawoof

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mollyeilis*
That's weird...our dipes are getting softer and softer!

Why are you doing a different routine? I've got FBs, SBs, their inserts (microfiber and hemp), cotton-inside Bumkins and Kushies AIOs, and the occasional Kissaluv, along with two Little Lambs with varied fabric inserts....all washed together and doing great!

Also, I have very sensitive skin, but I just scoop up a handful of washing soda and "help" it dissolve under the water. Haven't reacted a bit. I know we're all different, but my skin and NO reaction makes me really scratch my head as to how WS could be harsh!









It could be a difference in water. I've read that carbonate-based detergents (WS is sodium carbonate) can react with minerals in hard water to build-up on clothes. Hard water residue makes clothes/diapers feel stiff, so it would make sense that WS might react with minerals in some people's water to result in stiffness. It's not even just hardness/softness, but the specific minerals in your water.


----------



## GwenV

Do we know if there is anyway to get these detergenet brightners and other stuff out of diapers. I have unfortunetly used a detergent with brightners for all my diapers for a while now, so they likely are all affected.

Thanks!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BrendaW*
I'm not a regular poster, (or even reader) so I feel a little like I'm invading, but a customer emailed me a link to a couple of threads and asked if I could elaborate (just for them), and after reading around, thought I could offer something helpful. And thought a new thread might be more efficient than answering on 10 different ones.

There are a few threads simultaneously discussing which detergents are okay, particularly with pocket diapers, discussing whether free & clears are okay, and confusion about whether or not Purex is on the "black list".

The biggest problem with most detergents and pocket diapers (and Bummis covers) is a fairly new additive, brighteners. Sometimes called UV enhancers, brightening agents, brightening dye... It's a sort of dye made to stay on fabrics after washing and drying (so extra rinses don't help) and bend the reflected light toward the blue end of the spectrum, making clothes look brighter even though they aren't any cleaner than usual. If you look at your diapers or the detergent under a blacklight, there will be a bit of a UV glow, even.

ALL free & clear used to be the big one that had it. A patent on it must have just run out, because suddenly, in the last few months, it seems EVERY major brand has added it to their detergents. So any information more than a few months old may be outdated.

Purex Free & Clear used to be one f&c that didn't use it. It's what I used myself. But VERY recently they've added brighteners to, it appears, every version they make, including the free & clear. It's not that anyone was wrong about it or gave misinformation, it's just that they make these changes so FAST that it's nearly impossible to keep up with. And they aren't required by any law to list their ingredients, so you may not even know just by looking at the ingredients. But most companies, if they bother putting in there, will advertise on the front of the bottle/box "Brightens colors! Whitens whites!"

1. So Purex was okay, may not be any more.
2. Free & clears are only bad IF they have brighteners, but most do.
3. You can't trust ingredients lists, but avoid any detergent that claims to brighten colors.

I hope that cleared up some questions instead of creating more!

Brenda


----------



## Nickarolaberry

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wawoof*
It could be a difference in water. I've read that carbonate-based detergents (WS is sodium carbonate) can react with minerals in hard water to build-up on clothes. Hard water residue makes clothes/diapers feel stiff, so it would make sense that WS might react with minerals in some people's water to result in stiffness. It's not even just hardness/softness, but the specific minerals in your water.

Yes, we have very hard water. I guess that's why my dipes are stiff. Bummer.


----------



## soladeo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *My3Kids'Mama*
Yes, we have very hard water. I guess that's why my dipes are stiff. Bummer.

Have you tried putting in Calgon water softener? Our water softener's on the fritz- so I've been doing that.


----------



## Nickarolaberry

Well, lol, I have no washer at all right now. Getting a new one delivered tomorrow.

I have not tried Calgon. I feel like I cannot keep up with all the various additives/options, laundry-wise. It makes my head spin after a while. Where can I get that and how do I use it?


----------



## KayleeZoo

What's the consensus on amount of SG/WS for a regular old top loader? Anyone who is getting good results care to share their recipe?


----------



## Mommy2H

I've been using the SG/WS (7-8 squirts SG, about 1/4 C. WS)combo in my toploader for 3 months or so now. My dipes look great, no stains or anything.







I notice some bubbles in the water when I'm dissolving the SG and WS in the hot water, but when I add the dipes and it begins to agitate there are barely any bubbles at all. Is this a good thing? I know a lot of bubbles are bad, but do you think the dipes are getting clean enough? We haven't had any problems with rash or stink, but I don't want it to get to that point! I wasn't sure if the dipes were too new to indicate a problem with the wash routine.

This thread has been a great deal of help to a relatively new CDer. I'm learning so much from all of you in all of the different forums. Thank you all so much!


----------



## ts_peach

i second that this is great info and i've been cd for 4 years through two kids. the last year or so i've been realy frustrated by the laundering process. it seemed everything was causing buildup and i couldn't find a washing routine that worked very well. ds was regularly getting horrible rashes which i understand now why. i had a hard time recommending cd to people because i couldn't feel like i could give them good info to prevent some of the problems i was having. but i kept persevering thankfully.

i only started yesterday but all my diapers got washed that way. i even got overexcited and forgot to give a poppie load a cold soak and rinse first (learned my lesson the not to do that again. luckily nothing got stained) but the simple green and washing soda seemed to work fine.

i'm hoping this will be a long term solution and not be something else to have to fix in a few months. i feel though that since people started it in jan and seem to have success (especially after cutting down to 1/2-1 tbsp simple green) hopefully that's a good sign.


----------



## laideebugz

Ok silly question....







:

Are you washing ALL of your laundry with the SG/WS combo? or just your Cloth Diapers?


















-gina


----------



## heket

Okay, we've been doing the SG/WS combo for a few days now. Things seem fine so far and the stink in our hemp seems to be decreasing. I was wondering if anyone has substitute baking soda for the washing soda. I know the ph value of BS is lower, making it less caustic, but I'd like to know if it does a good job as well. We have *lots* of BS around here that I can use (boy that looks funny our of context!







)


----------



## ts_peach

heket-i think i read on this post or one of the links given that baking soad doesn't do the same thing that washing soda does as far as being a suffacant (sp?). it might have been on the pinsnstripes page which i think was linked to on the first page of this post.

laideebugz- i'm only washing my cd with this combo for right now but i think some were using it for all their laundry(??) not sure. i think i am leaning towards going with charlie's soap for all the laundry once i can all the products that i do have on hand (from trying different cd washing) used up. we'll see.

hth,
Anne-Marie


----------



## CalebsMama05

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laideebugz*
Ok silly question....







:

Are you washing ALL of your laundry with the SG/WS combo? or just your Cloth Diapers?


















-gina

for right now just the diaper laundry gets it. I have a lot of all free and clear left over to use up!


----------



## It's me!

I have washed all my laundry in it. Right now I'm using Charlie's Soap, but was using the SG/washing soda combo before. MY plan is to switch back and forth. When my CHarlie soap is gone, I'll go back the the SG combo and then when that is gone I'll switch back to the Charlie soap. I will wash all of my laundry and diapers in which ever one I'm using. I haven't had any problems, I have hard water BUT I haven't started washing messy diapers yet...baby is due next month..so this was just set up washing so far.

I think a few others are washing everything in the sg combo and it seems to be working fine.


----------



## wawoof

Well, I just started a new washing experiment and I'm anxiously waiting to see what'll happen. I'm not trying the SG/WS thing because a) I think SG might sudz too much in my FL washer, and b) carbonate detergents (like WS) can build up in hard water (which I have). I had been washing my infant's cotton diapers (prefolds and ME Sandys) in Allen's Naturally since he was born with no problems. Then, we switched to pockets (mostly BumGenius) because he was starting daycare, and the Allen's was just not removing the poo adequately from the BG - they came out of the washer with not only bright yellow stains but also residue on the suedecloth, even if I washed the same day he pooped. I really wanted to stick with Allen's so I tried soaking poopy dipes in a pail with BacOut. This helped a little, but there was still residue and staining and soaking was a PITA. Then, I decided to try Tide HE (yes, I have a front-loader). I know it has optical brighteners and I'm nervous about that, but I'd read so many people say they use Tide with no problems that I decided to try it. I washed my diapers in Tide HE last night and.... no staining or poo residue! I'm going to stick with this system for a while and see what happens. I'm nervous about the brighteners and other additives building up but just couldn't deal with poo residue...


----------



## BrendaW

About Tide HE: I checked the MSDS for this since it seems to work well for so many people using front loaders, and there are no brighteners or stain guards or anything in the HE version. The ingredients listed on the MSDS are:
40% sodium carbonate
enzymes
suspension salts (keeps nasty stuff suspended so it goes down the drain rather than settling back on clothes).

I don't think I'd worry about the HE version, and people who use it in their front loaders seem to do well with it.


----------



## KayleeZoo

Is Tide HE only for front-loaders?

Thanks for doing the legwork Brenda!


----------



## wawoof

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BrendaW*
About Tide HE: I checked the MSDS for this since it seems to work well for so many people using front loaders, and there are no brighteners or stain guards or anything in the HE version. The ingredients listed on the MSDS are:
40% sodium carbonate
enzymes
suspension salts (keeps nasty stuff suspended so it goes down the drain rather than settling back on clothes).

I don't think I'd worry about the HE version, and people who use it in their front loaders seem to do well with it.

Brenda, thanks for checking this out. Are these the ingredients for the liquid or solid Tide HE? I would guess it's the solid, from the sodium carbonate content? I'm trying to avoid carbonate-based detergents due to buildup in hard water - is there any way you could check the ingredients of the liquid Tide HE? Thanks so much!


----------



## CalebsMama05

oh no i'm having problems with my diapers now! they come clean *mostly* but when he pees in them the urine odor is so strong and it smells like maybe he's activating some old urine smell in the diapers. I'm using 10 squirts of sg and 1/4c ws what am i doing wrong?! I don't want to use the all f&c but I can't stand this smell anymore!


----------



## heathenmom

I SO wanted this to work, but the SG/WS combo doesn't seem to like my dipes. They smell okay coming out of the wash/dryer, but STINK when she pees in them .... like that awful barn-smell that hemp gets, but none of them are hemp! And they aren't soft anymore, either.







And last but most definitely not least, dd seems to be developing a bit of a ... rash? It doesn't look like a regular rash, but I don't know what else to call it. It looks like a bad sunburn on her hoo-ha.

So, they're in the washer now, in the 2nd half of the old routine: cold soak/cold wash/cold rinse with some salt & TTO, then hot soak/hot wash/cold rinse with a capful of Sportwash, some more salt, and a little more TTO. I've got about 1/2 a bottle of Sportwash left ... I'll probably try Sun when that's all gone; that's what my sister uses on her regular laundry.








So much for that experiment. I know I can use the SG for general cleaning, but it's going to take me a LONG time to use up 2 boxes of WS.


----------



## lrmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heathenmom*
And last but most definitely not least, dd seems to be developing a bit of a ... rash? It doesn't look like a regular rash, but I don't know what else to call it. It looks like a bad sunburn on her hoo-ha.


That sounds like the rash my dd had. I think my FL didn't rinse enough WS out, and it burned her skin. I had even run a complete wash with nothing in it after using WS, and she still got the rash.


----------



## CalebsMama05

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heathenmom*
I SO wanted this to work, but the SG/WS combo doesn't seem to like my dipes. They smell okay coming out of the wash/dryer, but STINK when she pees in them .... like that awful barn-smell that hemp gets, but none of them are hemp! And they aren't soft anymore, either.







And last but most definitely not least, dd seems to be developing a bit of a ... rash? It doesn't look like a regular rash, but I don't know what else to call it. It looks like a bad sunburn on her hoo-ha.

So, they're in the washer now, in the 2nd half of the old routine: cold soak/cold wash/cold rinse with some salt & TTO, then hot soak/hot wash/cold rinse with a capful of Sportwash, some more salt, and a little more TTO. I've got about 1/2 a bottle of Sportwash left ... I'll probably try Sun when that's all gone; that's what my sister uses on her regular laundry.








So much for that experiment. I know I can use the SG for general cleaning, but it's going to take me a LONG time to use up 2 boxes of WS.

I am having problems as well. my dipes are soft tho. I have to go rewash all of them i've decided to go ahead and use the all f&c I feel like such a failure I hate knowing that the all is going to ruin them but i just can't stand the horrible smell. Caleb is in Pampers until i get a chance to do the laundry because i need them to be clean and they aren't clean right now.


----------



## BrendaW

1. Sounds like the washing soda isn't rinsing out well enough for those of you with front loaders (and others?). I've been using for 8 months? 12 months? on everything, diapers and clothes, but I have an old water-waster washing machine. Still working for me (though I do alternate between that and Charlie's just because I have easy access to Charlie's.)

2. I think I clarified this about halfway through this now-huge tome, but the brighteners seem to present a problem only for waterproofing. Stink and repelling fleece are likely due to other residues (or, in the case of stink, it could even be not getting clean enough in the first place). My covers and two pockets wicked at particular spots, and when I looked under a black light, there were glowing spots that correlated exactly, and talking to two different specialty detergent-makers backed up my theory. So they were the cause of MY problem. But as a side effect everything seemed more absorbent and softer and odor-free when I switched. I'm hearing more about odor than anything else here, am I right?

3. I just called P&G, and wawoof, their liquid versions are based on borax rather than washing soda. All Tide products contain brighteners. P&G also makes Bold (powder) and Cheer, which they said do not contain brighteners. But do they contain other things? Do they wash out well? Dunno.

4. The MSDS, I found out, is not a good way to find out if there are brighteners, fabric softeners, stain guards, whatever in there. Not everything has to be listed. But calling the company who makes the detergent turned out to be easy enough! (But they're used to answering brightener questions - they get military wives calling since uniforms are not to be washed in brighteners, outdoors-people don't like to use them, either. She knew that one off the top of her head.)

5. If I had a front loader and was having odor problems, I'd have to give Tide HE a try. Too many people have said it worked for them. Perhaps because it's made specifically to keep everything suspended in the water so it goes down the drain rather than getting redeposited on clothes (Allen's naturally, by the way, which I've never tried personally, has the same ingredient for suspending particles in the water.) Actually, I think I'd use Charlie's first, given my past with the covers/brighteners and that it's cheaper, but I have easy access to it - most people don't.

6. Thank you for all the talk! I'm now visiting this board occassionally because I've become a bit obsessed about cloth diapers and laundry. It seems that it shouldn't be so difficult to get them clean without causing performance to suffer. I finally found a solution for myself, but the same solution apparently doesn't work for everyone. I'm dying to figure out the variables. I'm working on a questionnaire (on an independent poll site, not this board) that I'll ask people to go to and report their experiences and hopefully find some patterns. Beats getting a PhD in chemical and textile engineering.


----------



## ts_peach

i'm torn- i started doing the SG/WS last week and did all the diapers. the past few days ds has started getting the sunburn rash/owies on his wee wee(keeping it covered in barrier cream to let it heal and that seems to be working, it looks better today). it does seem like the dipes are getting cleaner but i'm not sure it is the cause of the chemical burn or not.

we've had this problem on and off for the last 9 months. i wonder if the diapers had so much old yucky stuff in them (like build up that it's trying to get it out. i've been using the 1/4WS and about 1 tbsp simple green. now i'm thinking maybe less SG because i'm having to rinse quite a bit to get the water clear (it's almost clear but after 4 washes in warm/cold with no detergent it still has a slight tinge-like a sheen almost so i know it's not just plain water- to the water but no bubbles.. but i'm not sure if it's from SG or from residue build up like i said.

i have some new dipes coming and i'm wanting to experiement and see if with brand new products if we have the same thing happen or if the rashes/owies clear up, but i'm torn because i don't want to mess them up and have brand new dipes start givng him the chemical burn either. they are nice organic cotton ones.

i did order some charlies soap last night both the powder and the liquid to see which one i like best and make sure it works for my sensitive skin (doesn't make me itch). so we'll see.

i have some organic cotton i think i will experiement making a dipe and washing it to see if things are better. our other dipes are a few years old and maybe it's just time to switch to new dipes. i've been frustrated with cloth diapering because i cna't seem to get a wash system that will clean and not cause chemical burn!!! soemthing has to work soon!


----------



## wawoof

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BrendaW*
3. I just called P&G, and wawoof, their liquid versions are based on borax rather than washing soda. All Tide products contain brighteners. P&G also makes Bold (powder) and Cheer, which they said do not contain brighteners. But do they contain other things? Do they wash out well? Dunno.

5. If I had a front loader and was having odor problems, I'd have to give Tide HE a try. Too many people have said it worked for them. Perhaps because it's made specifically to keep everything suspended in the water so it goes down the drain rather than getting redeposited on clothes (Allen's naturally, by the way, which I've never tried personally, has the same ingredient for suspending particles in the water.) Actually, I think I'd use Charlie's first, given my past with the covers/brighteners and that it's cheaper, but I have easy access to it - most people don't.

6. Thank you for all the talk! I'm now visiting this board occassionally because I've become a bit obsessed about cloth diapers and laundry. It seems that it shouldn't be so difficult to get them clean without causing performance to suffer. I finally found a solution for myself, but the same solution apparently doesn't work for everyone. I'm dying to figure out the variables. I'm working on a questionnaire (on an independent poll site, not this board) that I'll ask people to go to and report their experiences and hopefully find some patterns. Beats getting a PhD in chemical and textile engineering.

Brenda, thanks for all your research! Cheer comes in an HE version so maybe that'd be an ideal solution for front-loader users. However, my worry is that Cheer claims to neutralize chlorine in water and I suspect that chlorinated city water may help keep stink at bay. Given that Tide HE seems to work for so many people, I'm going to stick with that for now. BTW, I do survey research, so LMK if you have questions about your detergent/washing survey


----------



## wawoof

Well, my brief affection for Tide HE is over. DS has developed a red rash (like solid redness) all over his bottom after only 2 washes with Tide HE, and I've got a rash on my legs too. Grr. I guess we're going back to Allen's - I'm guessing our skin doesn't like the enzymes... I've spent the last 4 hours stripping the Tide residue off my dipes, ugh! To boost the Allen's, I'm going to use oxyclean more frequently and just throw any BumGenius that don't come clean back into the diaper pail for the next go round.


----------



## wawoof

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BrendaW*
2. I think I clarified this about halfway through this now-huge tome, but the brighteners seem to present a problem only for waterproofing. Stink and repelling fleece are likely due to other residues (or, in the case of stink, it could even be not getting clean enough in the first place). My covers and two pockets wicked at particular spots, and when I looked under a black light, there were glowing spots that correlated exactly, and talking to two different specialty detergent-makers backed up my theory. So they were the cause of MY problem. But as a side effect everything seemed more absorbent and softer and odor-free when I switched. I'm hearing more about odor than anything else here, am I right?

Just thought of something... out of curiosity, did you look with the black light and notice the brightener before or after the pee had wicked? If it was after the pee had wicked, isn't is a possiblity that the optical brighteners were building up on the absorbant material inside the diaper, then the pee was binding to the optical brightener, and when the pee wicked to the outside (and I've had plenty of pee wick, even when I exclusively used Allen's detergent with no brighteners), it brought the optical brightener with it - thus the perfect correlation you noticed. My DH is a chemist and thinks this is a possiblity. If this were the case, then the brighteners wouldn't be the cause of the wicking - the pee wicking would just transfer the brighteners to the outside of the dipe. Otherwise, why would you expect to see such an uneven distribution of optical brightener on the outside of the diaper?


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## jetsmom

i have different kinds of pocket diapes (fb, swaddlebees, ellas) with microfiber inserts. i use this combo because i wash in a laundromat in nyc and want stuff that dries quickly.
my boy is 8 mos.
i started out useing tide and had no probs but switched to sportwash anyway.
i out the diapes through 2 cycles
1)cold w detergent
2)hot without detergent

they are seeming to build up a little stink though and i want to nip it in the bud
heres what i'm thinking
1)cold w detergent and maybe tea tree oil (but how much?)
2)hot without detergent
and then a repeat
3)cold w detergent
4)hot without detergent

any ideas?
sugesstions?
thanks so much


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## wawoof

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jetsmom*
i have different kinds of pocket diapes (fb, swaddlebees, ellas) with microfiber inserts. i use this combo because i wash in a laundromat in nyc and want stuff that dries quickly.
my boy is 8 mos.
i started out useing tide and had no probs but switched to sportwash anyway.
i out the diapes through 2 cycles
1)cold w detergent
2)hot without detergent

they are seeming to build up a little stink though and i want to nip it in the bud
heres what i'm thinking
1)cold w detergent and maybe tea tree oil (but how much?)
2)hot without detergent
and then a repeat
3)cold w detergent
4)hot without detergent

any ideas?
sugesstions?
thanks so much

It could be that residue from the washer is getting on the dipes in the first wash cycle. Could you wash another load of your laundry in the washer before washing your dipes in it, to remove any residue (like other peoples' detergent or fabric softener)?


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## jetsmom

thats not a bad idea - ugh it just takes so long, but i think i will have to dedicate half a day to this
also i was thinking that since i wait 4 sometimes 5 days between washings and i dont control the heat in the washer maybe theres a problem there.
i will soak all my dipes in the tub with hot water and add some boiling water before the next wash cycle. pia but maybe i'll add that to my routine like once a month.
i decided that adding tto would not be a good idea.
i think when there are issues with dipes - smell or buildup the idea is to remove stuff from the routine, not add it.
i'll let you know how it goes
thanks


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## nora--not a llama

I'm wondering about sensiclean...
Do any of you use that?? Does it work well??

I've been using the SG/WS and dd has a couple of sores. Who knows if it's from the washing routine though, as she has extremely toxic poop a lot of the time.


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## daekini

sensiclean is the same as sportwash, just prettier packaging.


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## mommymoose

heeelllpppp!! cansomeone please help, my head is spinning with all this talk of detergents... here's the deal: We use Fuzzibunz with microfiber and hemp inserts, and lately, DS has developed a wicked red burn rash on the fronts of his legs where the elastic is. they are not too tight, definitelly a chemical type burn, but it takes a solid day and a half to go away... can't be good for him... I've used All F & C since he was born... whoops, guess I have been washing dipes in the wrong stuff for a while, but we've only had these fuzzi's for a few months, so i dunno... anyway, so it seems that the SG/ WS combo is causing problems for kids skin too??? i will try it, but i dont want more burns!!

can anyone help? this thread is really long, and I am going craxy trying to wade through it and try to figure it out!!
thanks!
Holly


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## wawoof

I recommend (as fuzzibunz does) stripping and then trying Allen's Naturally - I've never heard of anyone getting rashy from it.

Amara


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## mykidsmama

I have been using Allen's Naturally liquid in my fl and iron high hard water for several years now. My kids are VERY sensitive but this works well for us even on my pocket and fleece covers. I have not had any buildup while using it. The lack of any problems at all, and clear bottomed kids makes Allen's affordable for me.
My diapers are staying in really good shape too. I don't see alot of wear in spite of constant use.

I have used simple green in the past for a few days when I ran out of Allen's Naturally and it seemed to work Ok. I am leary of the washing soda however.
In the past long before I found Allen's Naturally I used washing soda. My diapers seemed to wear out much quicker when I was using it and the iron in my hard water was binding to the washing soda and leaving rust colored iron stains all over the diapers. Has anyone else experienced this?


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## aentwood

Well, I left for the store halfway through this and bought some SG with the hopes that this would cure our problems, but now I am worried to use it because people have been talking about rashes!

We got a frontloader in November, started having problems with stink and repelling in mid-late January. We started using FBs in January and noticed the problem mostly with them. First it was the old pee smell once he peed on them and now that we've missed a few good poops in the toilet, the FBs are stinking like crazy with poop once he wets them! We used Biokleen powder first and switched to Allen's Naturally a month or so ago per the suggestions on MOE website. But, the problem still exists!

I really think that my front loader doesn't give the dipes enough water. I called MOE and she even noted that diapers need much more water than detergent to get clean. I feel frustrated too b/c I can't handle a complex laundry routine (okay, I can handle it but DH can't AND we have to worry about running our well dry with too much washing) and I can't have stinky repelling diapers! ARGH!

So, I am going to try the SG/WS in a couple of days and see how that goes...I might do every other load with Allen's to try to ward off any rash.

I hate to see so many people having issues, but it makes me feel a little less lonely b/c when I've posted about stinky/repelling diapers in the past there were a ton of variable suggestions and I felt like everyone else had it figured out but me!

Anyway, I'll come back and update.

OH! For those with FLs, how many diapers are getting washed at a time? We have only 12 FBs and 12 inserts and sometimes a few prefolds and 1 or 2 bummis covers, so it often isn't a lot...just wondered if I need to adjust the SG/WS amounts even more.

Thanks.
Aubrie


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## daekini

Just thought I'd mention that myself and my children, we all have terrible allergies to detergent that result in head-to-toe eczema, and the only thing we can use is Seventh Generation...


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## Quindin

Hmmm.... reading through the posts I am thinking WS/SG may not work well on my sensitive baby...

Maybe I should buy some Tide HE


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## rootzdawta

For those folk's whose babies had reactions to the SG/WS . . . I read somewhere that WS is very alkaline so to balance that I do a rinse with vinegar and a second rinse with plain cold water. Maybe it's the alkalinity of the WS that causing the burns and if you already have the SG/WS, maybe you could give the vinegar and extra rinse a try and see if that helps. I've been doing SG/WS with vinegar rinse and extra rinse from the very start and I haven't seen any problems with DS skin and his diapers are doing very well--even hemp.


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## Quindin

I am not sure...
Doing a 3-step diaper washing (cold rinse w/ water, hot wash w/ soap + TTO, hot rinse with water) routine is complicated enough as it is with 4 kids and piles of regular laundry to do every week...








I am little disilusioned at the moment because in the 3 years of CDing I had never seen a diaper rash - until now... I am just looking for new detergent I guess, so to keep my routine the same...


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## Quindin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *daekini*
Just thought I'd mention that myself and my children, we all have terrible allergies to detergent that result in head-to-toe eczema, and the only thing we can use is Seventh Generation...

Are your diapers still soft and build-up free?


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## daekini

Quote:


Originally Posted by *polihaupt*
Are your diapers still soft and build-up free?

Yep! They're in great shape. Often when I sell my dipes, whoever bought it wants to know how I keep them looking brand new. I have many different kinds (as you can see from my fluff pix), primarily El Bees, though. But, I don't have any hemp, so I don't know how it would work with hemp. I also have microfibre terry inserts for the few pockets we own.

I do a cold rinse, then a hot was with 7th Generation followed by a cold rinse. Occasionally I'll do another cold rinse. Sometimes the microfibre starts to smell bad and I'll wash them separately about once a month with a bunch of hot washes and no detergents. But my OC fitteds don't need any special treatment other than the occasional sunning!









My philosophy is to keep things simple as possible. Fortunately, up to this point anyway, it's served me well! I've used Tide (free as well as regular), BioKleen, Cheer (free & regular), All free clear, some fancy schmancy Caldrea baby detergent, and never had any luck til I used 7th Generation. For the first time in as long as I can remember, I'm eczema-free! woohoo!

I must also mention that I can't use the powder version - only the liquid keeps my diapers looking and feeling good.


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## KayleeZoo

daekini, thanks for your post, i'm going to buy 7th gen to wash the kids' clothes in- they all have eczema ranging from moderate to severe. it would be awesome to find something that would help!


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## wawoof

Quote:


Originally Posted by *polihaupt*
Hmmm.... reading through the posts I am thinking WS/SG may not work well on my sensitive baby...

Maybe I should buy some Tide HE

I would *not* recommend Tide HE if your DC has a rash problem. My DS broke out in a bright red rash after washing his dipers in Tide HE only twice! I'd recommend trying Allen's Naturally or Charlie's Soap. I've used Allen's for years with no problems, both liquid and powder, though Allen himself told me that liquid may be better in hard water because it is less likely to build up.

7th gen has a reputation for building up on fleece and causing repelling, but is probably fine on just cotton.


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