# I'm not too sure about this anymore



## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

GD sounds great. But are all GD raised kids wild? Out of control?

I have a new friend (2 months) and she has 3 kids (preschool, 1st grade, 2nd grade) and she's basically followed GD with them. They are out of this world wild. So wild I almost don't want to be around her/her kids...but I like HER and we get along so well. Her kids freaking drive me up a wall. Granted, one of them has ADD. But the other 2 are just as bad w/o ADD. They don't listen, they mess with things repeatedly after being told not to. (When my porch had just been painted the little punks got on the porch 6 different times after being told not to. They're plenty old enough to follow directions).

DD (16 mos) was sleeping in our bedroom the other day. I had the doors closed. They were told to be quiet, they were for the most part. Friend and I went in the kitchen. Kids come running in--all 3 of them shouting, "The baby's awake! The baby's awake! Baby's awake! (repeat 10 more times)" OKAY!!!!!! I *TRY* to get to my scared baby. All the kids are running around--they opened the door and were swarming my dd who had just woken up. She was screaming for me. They were hopping around like monkeys. I finally SCREAMED, "EVERYONE STOP!!! Let me get to the baby!!!!" That's the second time that's happened. They are just out of control, IMO.

Seeing how her kids behave after being brought up with GD I'm really reconsidering this whole thing. Really. reconsidering. it.

I've seen many baby's my dd's age who behave MUCH better than she does. I behaved and knew what "no" was at her age. My mom and my gramma swear that at dd's age, they had glass figurines and such all over the place and I didn't mess with anything. I knew what "no" meant and I didn't test them like MY daughter does with me.

The past couple of days I have NOT been very gentle with dd. When it's obvious she's being overly dramatic/whiny for no real reason, I've been raising my voice, "THAT IS ENOUGH! Your behavior is NOT acceptable!" I went out to dinner the other night for the first time in forever. I was close to walking out of the restaurant and leaving dd behind with her dad. Instead, I raised my voice and told her she was being ridiculous and it had to stop! It stopped...and she was fine aferwards. Raising my voice snaps her out of her little fit. If I'd be gentle with her, I'd never hear the end of whining.

Today in the tub she was whining like she wanted to get out. I held up the towel. She held on to the tub and lowered her head, telling me she didn't want out. Then she whined more. I offered the towel. She didn't want out. She whined again. I offered towel. She declined the offer. "WHAT DO YOU WANT? YOU EITHER WANT IN OR OUT! I'M TIRED OF PLAYING THESE GAMES!" Then she willingly got out. Raising my voice has REALLY been working lately.

The first time I bit my mom, she smacked my leg and I never did it again. My dd has been biting me since she had teeth. I currently have 2 bloody bite marks on my chest--the skin was broke both times. I popped her in the mouth the last time (*tapped* her lips, didn't hurt her). The next time she bites me, I swear I'm going to bite her hard enough to hurt. My kid is seeming "out of control" lately....and I think it's because of this GD.

I'm totally rambling here. I'm just at the point where I don't believe GD is the best option. I do NOT (I WILL not) have a child that behaves like my friends kids. Uh...NO.

Someone tell me that GD works. Someone tell me that they have children that behave well. How is it that the non-GD kids seem so much more behaved than the GD kids I see? I'm just super-frustrated lately. DD is going through the whole separation anxiety phase, the test-the-limits-phase, and getting molars ontop of this new phase (or whatever you call it). I don't want to hit her...but my patience is "there"...yk?


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## OrganicSister (Apr 16, 2008)

Whoa. Take a deep breath. Maybe take a few of those.









First of all a lot of what you're saying is *normal* kid stuff. But our society has taken to the idea that kids shouldn't be kids (usually for our own convenience). Yelling or discipline might work great now when your daughter is small and easily controlled. Will it work as she grows older and is tired of being hurt or yelled at? Will she care what you have to say when she's a teen? Will she trust you enough to bring her problems to you?

That's what it is all about for me. Not about having the perfectly behaved son or making other people think I'm a great parent. But building trust in my son so that he knows he can come to me with ANYTHING - any mistake, any question, anything - and know I won't freak out or pull a "because I said so" card. He knows his feelings always mattered and are always validated. He knows the way he feels - whether it is bored or whiney or crabby - is treated with understanding and respect.

My son's not wild. There have been times when we thought we were doing the wrong thing. But mostly, the times when things didn't seem to be working it was because we were expecting too much from him. Expecting him to sit still in a restaurant. Expecting him to be perfect at in-laws homes. Expecting him to always be in a great mood. Heck, I can't even claim that one. When I drop the expectations and the pressure to perform or outperform other kids, he shines.

The times I've seen consensual living or GD not work is when the parents didn't have their own boundaries. But with boundaries I also have to have understanding that a *child* doesn't have the same skills as an adult and whatever I model he will learn. If I model understanding by looking past the behavior and addressing the issue, he'll learn he doesn't need the behavior to get my attention. He'll also learn to excuse my less-than-perfect moods.









I guess you have to decide what your goal is...a perfectly behaved child that does exactly what you want...or a well-adjusted adult who treats others with respect and understanding?

One last thing: Parenting isn't easy. Neither is GD. It will test your patience constantly. It will also allow you to become the parent you'd like to be. If you allow it. It's not comfortable to break old habits, especially generations of habits. But your DD is worth it. Your DD deserves to know with every one of your words and actions that you adore, appreciate and ENJOY her. Every thing you do or say will send her a message. What message would you like her to hear?


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## transylvania_mom (Oct 8, 2006)

my own experience...
My ds is 3.5 y/o and I get compliments all the time about how well behaved he is. His daycare teachers love him. He loves eating in restaurants. We even went house hunting last week-end and he patiently looked at all the houses with us. Other moms constantly tell me how wonderful he is.
Honestly, I think it's mostly a question of perspective. I know my little boy can be mischievous sometimes, but a lot of his behaviour depends on how the world treats him.

The other day on the playground a 18 m/o snatched the toy he was playing with; ds wouldn't let go. I just told the other kid (and his mom), I'm sorry, but ds is not in a sharing mood. Some other day we went to the playground and ds shared his toys with another baby and when he got his toys back, he said "thank you", loud and clear.
He has his moments when he's tired when he does things just to spite me. He went through a phase of hitting (just me, no one else), another one of whining, now he's constantly testing my limits.

IT IS HARD WORK. When we have a bad day I sometimes feel like crying. But it's all worth it, not because I have a perfectly behaved child, I couldn't care less what other people think. But because we have an amazing bond and very profound love and respect for each other. At this point, I feel I could never hit him, now matter how much or how little pain I could cause, but because I would be very ashamed of him and myself.
Hope this makes sense.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

I get comments constantly on how "good"(














my children are









I'm very gd but I have boundaries and limits. Usually they are my personal space and noise inside. I work more on respect and consideration rather than rules and behaviour.

I don't have much time but I find the less gd I am the more wild my kids are because I'm not taking the time to discipline them...and by discipline I mean understand and guide them.

The kids you describe would drive me nuts too but I wouldn't blame it on GD...they sound spirited and in need of some direct guidance from the mom


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

You sound very frustrated, and a bit scared. I've come through some behavioral challenges with my dc, and one thing I know is that fear does not improve my parenting--either overall or in the moment. Trust is much better, for both my dc and for me.

I think there is a huge range of "gd", some of which includes having firm rules and high expectations for behavior. It is important to understand that you can have high expectations for behavior _without_ hitting or yelling at children.

Speaking of expectations....it is vital to have developmentally appropriate expectations. Forget what your mother and gramma said; it is completely appropriate for a 16 mo to explore. It would be odd if she did not. Creating a "yes" environment (removing the breakables and letting her explore her space) at this age will reduce opportunities for her to test your patience.

And, about patience....if there is one thing parenting has taught me, it is patience. And, you know what? I am a better person for it. Our little ones have so many lessons to teach us, and patience is definitely at the forefront!

In answer to you question, no, not all gd kids are wild and out of control. I think the children you describe are struggling with impulse control, which is developmentally normal for a preschooler, and fairly common in a grade schooler. As far as I can see in my community, tough parenting does not eliminate these normal developmental challenges. My dd (second grade) is one of the best behaved in her classroom. The little girl behind her, who struggles with impulse control during class, often talks about her father yelling at her


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## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

Thank you for the different perspectives and quick responses. I guess that was a little bit of a rant.

I feel rotten after yelling at her. But it works. Sometimes I think she needs that to snap her out of her fits. I try other things before I yell--comfort, distracting, making funny faces, etc. Yelling comes when I'm at the end of my rope. And this separation anxiety is driving me nuts. (I'm a single working mom and things get stressful sometimes).

I'm not a monster-mom. She's not a monster-child. We've had our bad times lately. I know it's all a learning process for both of us. It's just hard sometimes. Last night while I was at work, she gave her dad a hard time. For the first time EVER her dad finally experienced what I do sometimes (usually I hear " *I* never have a problem with her"...like he's a better parent than me). He took her to my house last night. She was sleeping when I got home. He told me, "If you wake her up I will kill you." Daddy finally got a taste of what I put up with on a regular basis.

I was expecting to have a bad day today with her based on last night. But we had an awesome day--no fits or drama (other than the bathtub). I'd say that 90% of our days are great. She really is an awesome child. She's just been extremely challenging the past couple weeks.

And I keep hearing my mom/gramma telling me how I was never like that. Christmas is coming and gramma keeps asking me if she can display her breakables. I shake my head and tell her it's not a good idea. She proceeds to tell me how they never had to worry about anything when I was dd's age. Makes me question everything, yk?

DD's home environment is nothing but "yes" (except getting on the dining room table--I draw the line at that). I just question whether or not I'm creating a monster by not instilling boundaries in the home (especially when mom/gramma tells me the things they do).


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

There's no problem with reasonable boundaries.

-Angela


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## syd'smom (Sep 23, 2008)

I think you can have reasonable boundaries, but I also want my dd to feel welcome in her own home (and at relatives'), ykwim?. I would have never thought I'd be a gd parent, but I guess I am, as it feels right for us. We have a few things around that dd was interested in initially, but instead of a power stuggle (forbidded fruit idea) we talked to her, distracted and reminded - it seems to be working (so far







) I sometimes think our parents and g-parents have rose-coloured memories, but that's another thread.

If it gets mentioned again, I would ask if they would insist on no gate on the stairs (or some other example as we didn't use the gate a ton) b/c it is more convenient for them







but I like to stir the pot sometimes! Good luck mama!


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

One things I've noticed while wandering through these threads is that when parents/grandparents don't agree with the GD philosophy they tend to forget that their own children were like that at that age. I know that dd often had 'bad days' when I first came on to the scene. Dh was impressed with how I could get her to listen without raising my voice or threatening, so much so that it made him rethink his own parenting style.


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## noobmom (Jan 19, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
One things I've noticed while wandering through these threads is that when parents/grandparents don't agree with the GD philosophy they tend to forget that their own children were like that at that age.

This is so true for all parents of parents, not just GD. Their children were NEVER like THAT (whatever that is at the moment). I know my sister and I hear it from my mom every day. I'm pretty sure her memory is faulty.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:

Today in the tub she was whining like she wanted to get out. I held up the towel. She held on to the tub and lowered her head, telling me she didn't want out. Then she whined more. I offered the towel. She didn't want out. She whined again. I offered towel. She declined the offer. "WHAT DO YOU WANT? YOU EITHER WANT IN OR OUT! I'M TIRED OF PLAYING THESE GAMES!" Then she willingly got out. Raising my voice has REALLY been working lately.
GD is not permissive. Children to some degree want need and even crave boundries some more than others but all do. GD doesn't mean permissive. WHen you raise your voice your voicing your boundry but its also permissive because its done to just get a response and avoid conflict. Kids whine kids of punitive parents whine... Address the sitauion. SO here.. Wine whine I want out.. Offer towel.. No say okay five mintues then its out..(or what your comfortable with) enforce boundry.

Quote:

DD (16 mos) was sleeping in our bedroom the other day. I had the doors closed. They were told to be quiet, they were for the most part. Friend and I went in the kitchen. Kids come running in--all 3 of them shouting, "The baby's awake! The baby's awake! Baby's awake! (repeat 10 more times)" OKAY!!!!!! I *TRY* to get to my scared baby. All the kids are running around--they opened the door and were swarming my dd who had just woken up. She was screaming for me. They were hopping around like monkeys. I finally SCREAMED, "EVERYONE STOP!!! Let me get to the baby!!!!" That's the second time that's happened. They are just out of control, IMO.
FWIW that is exactly 100% how my brother kids act and they are raised VERY punitive. Like first time obedience spanked for every infraction type.

Deanna


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## crazydiamond (May 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
And I keep hearing my mom/gramma telling me how I was never like that. Christmas is coming and gramma keeps asking me if she can display her breakables. I shake my head and tell her it's not a good idea. She proceeds to tell me how they never had to worry about anything when I was dd's age. Makes me question everything, yk?

Maybe it's faulty memory, but maybe you really _were_ like that. The thing is, all kids are different. Just because you could be around breakables at that age doesn't mean your DD can.

I tell you, my DD is a very gentle child. Never got into trouble (though now at 3.5 she has her moments). I could trust her around glass figurines unattended all day and she'd not touch a single one. My DS, on the other hand, while only 6 mos old is already NOT that type of child. I can already tell that the kid will be into all sorts of trouble and probably loud and active as well.

Both of my kids are raised the same way. It's just a difference of personality. As a child, you might have been pretty mellow like my DD. Your DD, maybe not so much. There is no "one size fits all" approach here. You just have to know your child and his/her limitations and work within that. If you know leaving breakables out will tempt your DD, then insist they stay away this year. And whatever your mother tells you about yourself, realize she's talking about a different child, not your DD.


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## mom2tatum (Mar 14, 2007)

I have felt like this is different situations, too, and it tends to creep back up during times of stressful phases, but overall I know I am helping to shape my ds into a caring person, not just someone who learns to listen or else. YK? I guess just remember that all kids are different and some families have larger personalities, if ykwim. Also remember that GD is not about control. I mean, the point is not to get your child to listen to you each and every time you correct them and when they don't they get a punishment. Thats not the deal. That is more of an authorative approach and that can "work" if that is the only outcome you are seeking. However, I don't find that feels good to me or my ds. I don't feel that treating him with no respect for his curiousity, explorative nature, and simply him learning about interactions with me and others is a healthy approach.

Everyone is always telling me how sweet my ds is. I mean everyone, all the time. He is. And I treat him very sweetly which may have something to do with it, but also he just naturally is sweet natured, honestly. But he is not perfect and nor do I expect him to always "behave" like a good boy when I tell him to. For instance, I have never witnessed him hit or push anyone until the other day which happened to be two days after watching an older boy push down another child at the park. So, it really upset me to watch my little guy push this other boy. Immediately my mind goes to "why" he did it. It was out of frustration. The boy took his toy and was running around with it refusing to return it (at a playground). So, I first helped the other boy up and apologized and asked if he was ok. He was. His mom immediately yelled at him for taking my ds' toy and told him thats what happens when you piss other kids off. Eek. Anyway, I pulled my ds aside and talked gently to him about feeling so frustrated and angry, let him know I understand and told him that sometimes that will happen and I think its a better idea if he'd come and tell me about it instead of pushing and maybe hurting another kid. I gave him a hug and told him mommy is always here to talk to when he feels so upset or frustrated and that I think he could go play again if he was ready. I think he learned something from it and thats the point of discipline, really, IMO. But, do I think that will be the last time he'll ever react physically out of anger? probably not. Nor would it be if I had yelled at him, put him on time out, or spanked him for it. But, I think he learned more than just consequences from me and I know it will benefit our relationship much more also. And that is more important to me.


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## mom2tatum (Mar 14, 2007)

Oh, and in addition, you have to find the tone of voice that works with your child...my ds does listen to me more the first time when I speak kindly and ask him to please stop whatever it is such as "Hey bud, can you please not chase the dog with the flashlight, I don't really think he likes it too much sweetheart. Why don't you shine it on the wall instead?" ...However, my friend's dd who is also very GD, she needs to speak much more firmly and use her dd's name to address her...oltherwise she says her dd just won't hear her. Maybe that happened over time because thats how my friend began talking to her in those situations, I don't know for sure. But I do find that if I react too sternly and phrase my request more with anger sometimes and he senses he's made mom mad, he doesn't listen as well. He is sensitive...and that was imortant for me to learn about his personality.


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## sebandg'smama (Oct 29, 2005)

I think you have received excellent advice from pps.

I just want to share my growing up. My mother yelled, raised her voice. She maybe tapped my hands once or twice, never spanked. I was a very compliant child because I was afraid.

Do you want your child to be afraid of you?

I'm saying this as gently as possible, because when I lose my temper/ am irritable with my kids, I try to take a deep breath and look at the bracelet on my arm that says "Connect, then correct" (taken from Pam Leo's book Connection Parenting"http://www.connectionparenting.com/)


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## ann_of_loxley (Sep 21, 2007)

A lot has been said but I wanted to add...

GD is also about looking at the whole picture. It is not just about looking at the outside behaviour.
I will use something that was an issue for us that we overcame as an example...

When DS was about 2 years old he became a little terror to take shopping. He would run off. He would grab things off the shelves and throw them on the floor and leave them there. He just started acting in a way that he had never acted before and was obviously doing things not acceptable.

I too started to think 'what the heck am I doing wrong?'... I never acted like that - where did he get this behavior from?!...and felt like I should start yelling, time outs, smacking, etc...to get him to behave. But I had to remember my goal and that was not to get him to behave out of fear. To help him grow into a caring, considerate, compasionate, (etc) adult...etc...

It took me a few weeks but finally..finally...I was able to step back and look at the whole picture. It was then that I realised a bunch of things that connected together.
He was tired. He had recently dropped his naps and he just spent two hours playing at a toddler playgroup!
He was hungry - this was a morning playgroup and lunch was around the corner. Despite the snacks they have at the playgroup, they are small and sugary and not really low gi enough to 'fill' him up and take away the hunger.
The store was busy during this time. Most people at work were on their lunch breaks, mothers were getting in their shopping whilst children were at school, etc... DS is highly sensitive and is easily off balanced by loud or 'busy' noises.

All of this was too much for him. He couldnt think. He was out of control.
When I was finally able to see this and make this connection, then I was able to connect with him.
I simply changed the time of day that I went shopping. I did not have to be done then. So we went in the evenings before DH got home from work. And you would think he was a different child!!! He stayed with me. He wanted to help me find things. He enjoyed looking at the things on the shelves and if he picked something up to look at, he put it back in its right spot when he was done. It was much more pleasant and of course, much more socially acceptable.

So take a step back and breathe. GD is all about being creative as well. GD helps us see things from the childs point of view so we can better connect with that. That connection is important. Making our child feel violated, scare, hurt, coerced, etc...breaks this connection and bond and does not look very promising for our future relationships with them when they are adults - and sets them up for their own failure in their personal relationships with people they will one day form.

Take the bath incident for example. Maybe she was tired and simply couldnt think straight? Maybe she wanted out but she wanted your help in lifting her out and then help in getting dry? Maybe she didnt want out but the water got a bit too cold for her liking and she didnt know how to express this? Language is a big barrier for children and life can be very frustrating for them - especially in a world that relys on language to communiate (though with GD, we can continue to know how to communicate with our children beyond verbal language!). This is why I feel it is so important for us to use our language in a GD way so that the language they learn how to use is also gentle.

GD is about working with our children. It is a relationship that is every growing. It is not about doing things to our children. If you think something is working, it is important to look at why. You may see yelling as working - but why? You may find that when we take a step back and look at our goals as parents and carers and the other half to this relationship we are building with our children, that what was 'working' is conflicting with this.

I highly suggest some reading! Raising our Children, Raising ourselves is a book right up your ally! I also recommend 'P.E.T. - Parenting Effectiness Training'...a good book very similar to the one mentioned above. Sometimes we need to centre ourselves as well. Sometimes doing a bit of reading can help us get back on track and remember our goals and how we can better keep to them.

I also want to address the issue of whining. I know all about it. Its bloody annoying! BUT - a bit BUT here...it is important to remember that it is annoying to ME. I want my son to grow up emotionally healthy. He can not do this if I stiffle his emotions. He is highly sensitive as I have said...so he does often cry about everything. It gets to me. I am also highly sensitive and I can not take all that crying. But hes one emotional little man. I think it is important to help him feel comfortable in his skin and to help him know that its okay to feel the way he does. If he were to do something unacceptable, its still important for him to understand that his feelings are being heard even if his actions caused by his feelings are not okay - so then I can show him an acceptable way of showing that emotion. We are angry, bored, etc...biting is not okay. But we can bite out teddy! Grrr...lets bite our teddy! We all need emotional release. When we are sad, we cry. It is healthy. What do we do when we are mad? I like to scream into my pillow - hit my pillow....let it out. Then talk about it with someone I feel comfortable talking about it with. I want my son to feel comfortable in me. I dont like being bit, but he can bite his pillow - he knows that. We get our feelings out, we overcome them, we make it out the other side emotionally healthy. GD is not about always making sure our children never cry. You can not prevent all of lifes upsets (and there is no need to prepare them for the hard cold horrible big bad world either - they soon learn this on their own, no matter how hard they try, they just can no defy gravity or physis and this is going to be very upsetting for them...hits about 3 I think







lol) - But you can be there for them. GD is not about shutting a child up as quick as possible either. When I am there for my son, connected, and he feels safe with me to express himself...he often cries longer and louder. And then its over. If there is one thing I do not want to teach my son, it is to bottle up his feelings - to make him feel that feelings are not an okay thing to have. If I yelled at him when he had feelings, even if it seemed like nothing to me, this is what I would teaching him. It is important to remember this because small children often seem very emotional - they just are because their feelings are new to them and so is the world.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I was a wild kid and my parents were very punitive. My daughter is wild in a way but she's a really good kid overall. Like there's a wildness to her but she really cares about the people around her and tries to be considerate. Wildness isn't always, in my opinion anyway, related to misbehavior. I know kids who are not wild at all but whose behavior is awful.

Screaming is just going to scare a child. But there's nothing wrong with using a stern voice to let a child know where boundaries are. I'm quite sure I've held a towel and sternly said, "I am not going to stand here all day. What are you going to do?" And yes, it works. I don't have a problem with that and I don't see how it isn't GD.

Kids mess with things after being told not to if the boundary isn't enforced. If they shouldn't mess with something, I assume there's a reason behind it (like it could get broken) and it isn't just arbitrary. But if a kid keeps messing with it and it's important they stop messing with it because something bad will happen, put it out of reach, lock the door to the room it's in, whatever it takes to keep it from getting messed with. You can stop someone having access to something without punishing over it.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Wow this is a great thread.

I truly, honestly believe in my heart that although a big part of parenting is to teach (via modeling, information, role playing, and guidance) acceptable behaviour, the larger part of parenting is to enable the little person to grow into him or herself in a way that he or she will use his or her strengths to address his or her weaknesses.

Because I cannot predict what my child will need in his life. He may be an adult who needs to be more self-disciplined. He may be an adult who needs to learn to let things go. What I want is for him to feel safe to explore those things and empowered to address them. I want him to generally feel the world is a good place, but to bring a critical eye to its dangers, and that he can also make it better.

I personally will not use any method with him that I feel doesn't preserve my dignity and his dignity. That's what I can control - me. He may become a wild drug addict. He may not. All I can do is behave the way I think is best, educate myself, and be willing to explore options within that framework.

I do most my work over the Internet. When I was growing up the Internet did not exist. There were no acceptable rules for forums, email, etc. No cell phones. Long distance was a twice a year phone event. But I use it to treat people as well as possible. Because that's the underlying idea.

We cannot impose rules on our children that will always apply. What we can teach are principles - respect for others, care for our surroundings. It's my belief that the most effective way to teach those is to use them ourselves every day.

That includes limits and boundaries but it also includes what means we are willing to use to get there. Does your friend possibly need to change how she is handling her kids? Sure, but that doesn't mean she has to use the "non-GD toolbox." She might just need to use the GD toolbox more effectively.

On specifics I wanted to say - the "yes/no/yes/no" thing is so frustrating! My son went through that around 2. I did yell. But then I realized it was because he was learning that choosing one thing means not choosing the other and it was really bothering him! How cool is that though? Anyways at times I just imposed limits "I am going to count to 5 and then if you have not left the tub I will lift you out" and at times I walked away and let him decide (not safe in a tub!).

For the touching, my son is an explorer. He even now has a really hard time not touching things. We taught him the "one finger touch" as the default so that if he slips up and touches, at least it's likely not to break anything. If we had tried to go for "don't touch" I think we would have been doomed. It's not that we let him touch everything, but giving him a third option has really helped.


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## cfiddlinmama (May 9, 2006)

I have 4 kids. They range in age from 3 to 8. They are very free-spirited children. Very full of life, noise, excitement and silliness. They often feed off of each other and can get loud and obnoxious and suddenly forget that there are certain things they are not supposed to do. If you were to be an observer without knowing my family dynamic, you might think on certain days that my kids are wild and completely out of control. If you were to see them on other days, you would be amazed at how well behaved they are and how sweet and considerate of each other they are. Some days, they murder each other. (Like this morning.)

The positive thing about my very spirited children is that they feel safe to be who they are. I wouldn't want to squelch their natural vivaciousness. We do have some very important boundaries though. If we didn't, I could see how our lives would be complete mayhem. As parents, it's our job to help guide our children and boundaries are very important to their development.

One big thing I've noticed is if I put the time into my kids - I interact with them and do things with them - they behave so much better and get along so much better. If I'm busy and distracted they start falling apart.

In my experience, GD is hard work but the results are great. I rarely have to "discipline" my kids. For the most part I listen to them and they listen to me. I'm a much better mother because I have to put the time and effort into figuring out what is going on and find a solution.

I used to be a punitive, authoritarian mother. My kids behaved so much worse than they do now. We've been GDing for 4 years now. I'm a better, calmer mother, my kids are happier and behave a whole lot better. The difference in my two kids that were spanked and that two that weren't is huge too.

For me, making the switch meant: 1.) not allowing myself to hit my kids EVER AGAIN. 2.) whisper instead of yell. 3.) walk away for a few minutes and take deep breaths if I was losing it. 4.) change my expectations about child behavior and think realistically about what they were capable of developmentally. 5.) play with my kids and enjoy their company. 6.) calm down and try and de-stress my life as much as possible.

I know this is really long. All of this is to say that I've been on both ends of the spectrum with parenting and discipline. GD is hard work. Much harder than yelling and hitting (for me.) They results speak for themselves though. My kids are happy, well adjusted. Not scared and cowering. My kids are all older than your dd. The effort I put in as toddlers is really paying off now. Keeping the goal in mind is very important on the really hard days. I want good healthy teen years and strong well-adjusted adults. That's what I'm working for daily.

So your friend's kids are out of control. That doesn't mean that GD doesn't work. My friends who are very strict disciplinarians (read complete opposite of GD) have kids who might appear to be super well behaved when with their parents. When they are away from their parents they are complete terrors. My kids behave better for other people than for me. I'd rather have that. My kids can safely act out at home so they don't have a need to the second they are away from me.

Sorry to be so ridiculously long winded. Hang in there mama. Your sweet daughter with thank you later if you treat her with gentleness, love, understanding and reasonable boundaries. My mother used to yell, scream and hit like crazy. She would go into rages at us. She would scream: "You Will Fear Me." You better believe we did. I still do to a degree. I don't think you want that from your daughter. When I started turning into my mother was when I started looking for other ways and discovered GD. Even if my kids aren't the best behaved kids in the world, they know they are safe, loved and respected. Those are things I never felt as a child. That's so much more important to me than blind, perfect obedience.

I hope this made a little sense.







Parenting is hard work. Single parenting is even harder. Hang in there mama. You're doing just fine.


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## kiwiva (Apr 17, 2006)

I can't speak from personal experience about how GD kids turn out as my DD is 2 though I do know several older Gd'd kids who are perfectly pleasant children to be around.

First, take a deep breath. I think we make it very difficult for ourselves when we make small now-issues into huge lifetime consequences. For ex, she's testing limits now, if I GD she is going to turn into a little monster. It is way easier to step back and say what the heck is going on here? Sounds to me like you have a normal 16 mo old. Seriously the last 8 mos (DD just turned 2) have gotten easier as time passed. Eating out is impossible now for you, but it won't be forever. We had a very taxing vacation when DD was 22 mos, for ex, because she wouldn't sit still for 23 seconds, but now she is fine (with lots of activities, of course).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
I've seen many baby's my dd's age who behave MUCH better than she does. I behaved and knew what "no" was at her age. My mom and my gramma swear that at dd's age, they had glass figurines and such all over the place and I didn't mess with anything. I knew what "no" meant and I didn't test them like MY daughter does with me.

I believe people have selective memory about how their kids behaved decades ago. Your mom and gm may have spent a bunch of months screaming at you to "teach" you not to touch. My dad was a yeller. I am sure I didn't touch stuff as a kid (not at 16 mos, I am sure) but that was because I was afraid he'd blow up.

I also think that when our kid is doing it it seems so much worse and everyone's kids are better. I think there is a reverse rose-colored-glasses effect or something.

It is absolutely age appropriate for babies to test limits. Eating out with a 16 mo old is just challenging. If you were the screamingest mama out there, your 16 month old still would be a challenge eating out.

In the bath incident, she may not have known what she wanted to do and certainly at that age it is difficult to communicate. I don't think that a punitive approach would prevent these sorts of things.

If I screamed at DD yes I would get an immediate break in whatever behavior I was reacting to, but it would be out of shock and fear and it wouldn't put us in a good mood for learning I don't believe.

And as re: your example of the wild screaming kids when your baby was waking up, I can think of some kids who were not raised GD at all who would be inclined to act the exact same way.

I think you need to figure out what works for both you and DD but I wouldn't just automatically discount a GD approach because of this particular family. And also it helps A LOT to know what sorts of behaviors are age appropriate as many of the very annoying things they do are phases.

On the biting, there have been some threads here somewhat recently on that topic, I believe. I don't believe that hitting a child teaches them not to hit, and I wouldn't expect biting to help either. She is not trying to hurt you. I imagine that you will feel very badly if you were to bite her back.

Hang in there, I know it is very challenging at that age -not that 2 is a magical wonderland, just that things do change amazingly fast!


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Several things come into play with what you observed. There are vastly different approaches to "GD" -- and not every parent who says they are GD really are. Kids have very different personalities. Kids also will sometimes behave very differently in different situations, so don't judge too harshly on a single observation.

For me, its important to remember that GD stands for Gentle Discipline, not NO discipline. You can have and enforce boundaries and expectations. They should be age-appropriate, expressed in a way the child can understand, and enforced with respect. They should be tempered to take your child and his/her needs and wants into account. But they can certainly be there. Unfortunately, some parents who say they are GD are really just permissive. It may be that this is what you are seeing.

Personally, my variation on GD has no problem with setting age-appropriate expectations, or using a stern voice to get everyone's attention when necessary. I also use limited natural or logical consequences. There are times my kids can and will run wild for a bit, and times that I expect them to be calm and careful.

I'm careful to model the behavior I expect from my kids because they learn by watching more than listening. Which is why biting back isn't a great idea. But at 16 months, putting a child down and saying "biting hurts -- no biting" is OK IMHO.

But as others have said, kids are different. Just because you were a certain way (if you really were), doesn't mean your child would be the same even if you used the same parenting as your mother did. All kids whine, I think, regardless of parenting. Most kids get wild when excited, regardless of parenting. All kids disregard instructions at times, regardless of parenting.


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## hollycat (Aug 13, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evan&Anna's_Mom* 
.

For me, its important to remember that GD stands for Gentle Discipline, not NO discipline. You can have and enforce boundaries and expectations. They should be age-appropriate, expressed in a way the child can understand, and enforced with respect. They should be tempered to take your child and his/her needs and wants into account. But they can certainly be there. Unfortunately, some parents who say they are GD are really just permissive. It may be that this is what you are seeing.
.











wonderful.
the problems i see around me seem to come from too strict boundries AND too lax boundries. both are in ways an "easier" way to parent than what evan's mom describes above, which is really an engaged and appropriate way to disipline a child, something that children despretely want and need to feel safe in the world.


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## Twocoolboys (Mar 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
And I keep hearing my mom/gramma telling me how I was never like that. Christmas is coming and gramma keeps asking me if she can display her breakables. I shake my head and tell her it's not a good idea. She proceeds to tell me how they never had to worry about anything when I was dd's age. Makes me question everything, yk?



I have found that the older generation has a very selective memory when it comes to how their kids behaved.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollycat* 
the problems i see around me seem to come from too strict boundries AND too lax boundries.

Yeah -- finding the balance is definitely the hardest part. Well, that and controlling my own temper and automatic reactions since the way I parent is most certainly not the way I was raised.

The other thing that I think is important that many people miss is that boundaries, expectations, and reactions need to change as each child changes. Things that were OK at 2 aren't OK at 5. And at 9 they need a lot more independence than at 5. Its such a fluid, moving dynamic sometimes its hard to keep track of.

Sometimes I"m glad to get to the office where at least things are semi-static!


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## amnda527 (Aug 6, 2006)

I used to teach kids in grades from 1st to 4th. I'm taking a big guess here, but I really don't think many (or any) of those parents practiced gd. But most of the kids were "wild". But, they are kids. They are loud and like to jump around and not sit in their seat. They push and shove, they don't always use their manners. They get excited about things and every rule goes out the window. This is just the way kids are. Most of them anyways. If your friend didn't practice gd, and she spanked and yelled, there is no guarantee that her children would be perfect little soldiers and sit still and quiet for hours on end. And I liked what one of the pp said about disciplining for the long run. When your daughter is 16 you arn't going to able to pop her on the mouth, it is very likely that she will pop you right back! GD takes a lot of practice, and it is hard. Sometimes yelling and spanking are the easy things to do because you get an instant reaction, and you get what you want immediately. But usually, the easy things are not the best choices.


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## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

You all are so wonderful. You've given me such a different perspective on things. And you have me back on track. Thank you all so much.

I was also a wee bit stressed when I wrote the original post. I don't think I could bite her/hit her to inflict pain. But that's how I felt at that particular moment. (And IRL sources tell me to--telling me she's out of control because I don't do those things). I have to work real hard on my temper as I had a not-so-gentle mama and yelling/snapping comes easy to me.

I've been a wonderful mother (and I don't give myself too many compliments--but this one is something I can proudly say). It's just the past week/2 weeks dd has been challenging and I've snapped/raised my voice a few times. She's going through a new learning phase--and I have to learn how to help her through it.

I'll reply to individual quotes in just a minute....


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
It's just the past week/2 weeks dd has been challenging and I've snapped/raised my voice a few times. She's going through a new learning phase--and I have to learn how to help her through it.

Never trust parenting advise from anyone who says they haven't been there done that -- we ALL have difficult weeks and we ALL sometimes aren't at our best in the middle of it.


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## Porcelain Interior (Feb 8, 2008)

I have a theory that a lot of the behaviors (things you mentioned in your post) are personality differences more than parenting issues.

Some kids are loud, no matter what kind of parents they have. Yes kids raised in really chaotic loud houses will most likely also be loud and chaotic, but many kids come this way.









Some kids even with spankings (which I do NOT ever use) are little hellions. Loud, testing, daring you to get peeved with them. So blaming GD, I just don't think it's that easy.

I think I'm fairly gentle with my kids. I don't think a firm reprimand is non-gentle. That's my opinion though. If my kids are being obnoxious and don't listen to my first cue that I've had it (let's say they are trying to stick their fingers up my nose) then my voice becomes serious, perhaps a little louder if they can't hear me and I have no issue saying "This stops now."

I do not spank because when I had my first child the first time I did spank she hit me back, and I started laughing. The entire idea of spanking goodness into children just seemed stupid. So I never did again. *I was 17 when I had my oldest daughter.

Both my kids are extremely respectful, one is quiet and reserved one is jubilant and cheery and outgoing. I would be considered pretty permissive in most areas. I'm ADD so maybe that's my personality coming out?

They've never run from me in a parking lot or anywhere else, stood up in a restaurant booth, pitched a fit in a store because they wanted a toy or candy, called another child a name, used swear words.......I could go on and on. My point is I think at least 50% of this is built in personality, not due really to something magical that I did to make them that way.

I can't look at a child that's darting into the street and say "Oh! There's a bad parent! Look at that, they just let her run into the street, our kids would never....".

I don't think it works like that. I think GD is more about preserving the child's spirit and the mother/child bond than anything else.

Anyway that's my 2 cents.


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## 2cutiekitties (Dec 3, 2006)

Great thread, please keep up all the advice.

I whole heartedly agree with Ann of Loxley. It is about figuring out what is setting your child off and in my situation, what sets me off.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

Couple of things--

The age, the age, the age. The single most important thing for parents to do in terms of understanding discipline is to understand ages and stages and common behaviors at each age. Once you realize how certain behaviors are very common from a one year old (screaming, biting, etc.) and how this is less commonly seen in a four year old (who is more likely to use words as weapons, or to tell a fantastic lie) you begin to have realistic expectations. That is VITAL to success with discipline.

Regarding the older generation commenting on your toddler: Did you ever watch old episodes of tv shows with toddlers in the family? I was watching some episodes of "Bewitched" and I noticed that toddler Tabitha (not as a baby, as a toddler!) was exclusively penned up in a small playpen in every scene for the entire first three seasons. It was like they only took her out to feed and dress her, and then she was put right back into the pen. The child just stood there wide awake, sometimes dressed in hat and coat, lounging around in the playpen. It was really odd by today's standards. Do they even SELL playpens now? It's all baby gates. You keep them in the ROOM now, but not in a pen. It was just far more common to handle "baby proofing" by keeping kids penned up until they were old enough to be "trained" around breakables. That is out of fashion today, and I think grandparents are just confounded by it...


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## syd'smom (Sep 23, 2008)

Sadly, playpens are still in use as pens, for extended periods. My dh's cousin was telling me how her ds (1yr) always wanted to be around her or was "getting into things" so she was going to "train him" to like the playpen. This was at his first b-day. He wasn't walking (which I know is normal), but I'm not sure how he'll learn if he's in the playpen while she's taking care of the newborn (born about a month after her son's first b-day). I offered to lend her some carriers; she said they had a frame pack.


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## EmilyNY (Jul 25, 2007)

I didn't read all the replies but just wanted to offer some sympathy. 16 months is a tough age. The new freedom, the separation anxiety, the frustration with communication, the molars... You will survive! Try to cut yourself and your daughter some slack.

As for raising your voice, I used to be a yeller before reading Unconditional Parenting and changing my ways. I still find myself yelling out of frustration from time to time. But like you said, it feels bad. I'm guessing it seems to "work" for you because it's something new - it takes your daughter by surprise. I'm guessing over time it wouldn't even work any more. It's a slippery slope.

Raising kids really does offer us an opportunity to grow as people. It sounds like you are working hard along that path.

And as for the original question, my GD kids are overall really well behaved. We do work around their needs and try not to expect more than they can reasonably deliver. But I often hear from others how "good" they are. They are treated with respect and that's the way they act. I think a lot of it is biological and some kids are just higher-energy than others, but no, not all GD kids are wild


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## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
One things I've noticed while wandering through these threads is that when parents/grandparents don't agree with the GD philosophy they tend to forget that their own children were like that at that age. I know that dd often had 'bad days' when I first came on to the scene. Dh was impressed with how I could get her to listen without raising my voice or threatening, so much so that it made him rethink his own parenting style.

That's what many people on this thread have said. I thought that with both mom/gramma telling me stories about me, it must be true. My mom used to smack my hands and tell me know. She said I'd go up to "no-no's" and smack my own hand and say "no". She constantly tells me that and tells me I need to do the same with dd. I constantly defend my parenting decision in that I don't believe in hitting and/or it does no good to hit at this age.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crazydiamond* 
Maybe it's faulty memory, but maybe you really _were_ like that. The thing is, all kids are different. Just because you could be around breakables at that age doesn't mean your DD can.

I tell you, my DD is a very gentle child. Never got into trouble (though now at 3.5 she has her moments). I could trust her around glass figurines unattended all day and she'd not touch a single one. My DS, on the other hand, while only 6 mos old is already NOT that type of child. I can already tell that the kid will be into all sorts of trouble and probably loud and active as well.

That's a very good point. DD's dad has 2 boys. He's told me several times that his 2 were never like Lily. I was never like Lily either. With my small group of IRL people, I start to feel like my kid is some kind of terror or something. But she's not. She has her moments, as we all do. But she really is a wonderful child. I take her to my therapy appointments. My therapist is amazed at how wonderfully she behaves and listens to me for her age. Still I hear the nay-sayers and I wonder.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom2tatum* 
Also remember that GD is not about control. I mean, the point is not to get your child to listen to you each and every time you correct them and when they don't they get a punishment. Thats not the deal. That is more of an authorative approach and that can "work" if that is the only outcome you are seeking. However, I don't find that feels good to me or my ds. I don't feel that treating him with no respect for his curiousity, explorative nature, and simply him learning about interactions with me and others is a healthy approach.

That is a great point. My original post probably sounded like I want control over her...but I didn't mean to come off like that. I'm a very laxed parent. (So much so, that I was wondering if I was doing something wrong to create a problem child. I also play with her a lot and was thinking that playing with her too much might be causing some kind of problem. I dunno?). I let her roam outside, let her taste crayons, dog food, etc. Most people I know "gasp!" when they see my laxed approach. I shrug my shoulders and say, "She's exploring her world. She'll only know if she finds out for herself. It won't kill her." "If it won't kill/harm her, let her have it"...that's my motto.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom2tatum* 
Oh, and in addition, you have to find the tone of voice that works with your child...my ds does listen to me more the first time when I speak kindly and ask him to please stop whatever it is such as "Hey bud, can you please not chase the dog with the flashlight, I don't really think he likes it too much sweetheart. Why don't you shine it on the wall instead?" ...However, my friend's dd who is also very GD, she needs to speak much more firmly and use her dd's name to address her...oltherwise she says her dd just won't hear her. Maybe that happened over time because thats how my friend began talking to her in those situations, I don't know for sure. But I do find that if I react too sternly and phrase my request more with anger sometimes and he senses he's made mom mad, he doesn't listen as well. He is sensitive...and that was imortant for me to learn about his personality.

This is also a great point. This is what I've found with dd. Like so many have said though--I don't want her instill fear in her but raising my voice really gets her attention. But raising my voice works--if it's a drama/whining-thing. Being a single parent doing shift work with 3 hours of sleep somedays (after working 16 hours)--my patience is very thin....and if fussing can give me a break from whining. Well. I don't know. I don't want to scar her for life. But....mama needs a break sometimes.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sebandg'smama* 
I think you have received excellent advice from pps.

I just want to share my growing up. My mother yelled, raised her voice. She maybe tapped my hands once or twice, never spanked. I was a very compliant child because I was afraid.

Do you want your child to be afraid of you?

I'm saying this as gently as possible, because when I lose my temper/ am irritable with my kids, I try to take a deep breath and look at the bracelet on my arm that says "Connect, then correct" (taken from Pam Leo's book Connection Parenting"http://www.connectionparenting.com/)

This puts things in perspective. Of course I don't want her to be afraid of me! That's the last thing I want. I have to center myself. I have to learn how to handle whining/drama/fits w/o raising my voice.

But is raising my voice the same thing as yelling?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *octobermom* 
GD is not permissive. Children to some degree want need and even crave boundries some more than others but all do. GD doesn't mean permissive. WHen you raise your voice your voicing your boundry but its also permissive because its done to just get a response and avoid conflict. Kids whine kids of punitive parents whine... Address the sitauion. SO here.. Wine whine I want out.. Offer towel.. No say okay five mintues then its out..(or what your comfortable with) enforce boundry.Deanna

But by raising my voice to voice my boundry--am I instilling fear into her like sebandg'smama's mom did to her?

Some say voice raising is okay. Some say it will scar my kid. I guess this is a personal choice kind of thing?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ann_of_loxley* 
A lot has been said but I wanted to add...

GD is also about looking at the whole picture. It is not just about looking at the outside behaviour.
I will use something that was an issue for us that we overcame as an example...

So take a step back and breathe. GD is all about being creative as well. GD helps us see things from the childs point of view so we can better connect with that. That connection is important. Making our child feel violated, scare, hurt, coerced, etc...breaks this connection and bond and does not look very promising for our future relationships with them when they are adults - and sets them up for their own failure in their personal relationships with people they will one day form.

Take the bath incident for example. Maybe she was tired and simply couldnt think straight? Maybe she wanted out but she wanted your help in lifting her out and then help in getting dry? Maybe she didnt want out but the water got a bit too cold for her liking and she didnt know how to express this? Language is a big barrier for children and life can be very frustrating for them - especially in a world that relys on language to communiate (though with GD, we can continue to know how to communicate with our children beyond verbal language!). This is why I feel it is so important for us to use our language in a GD way so that the language they learn how to use is also gentle.

See? You're on top of things. I never would have thought about any of this. I think it's amazing that you can look at a situation and ask all of those questions. It makes me look at the situation much differently and will make me look at future situations differently as well. I don't know if my brain works like that though. I'm going to have to learn to asses the situations as you have--that was really impressive.

*GD is about working with our children.* It is a relationship that is every growing. *It is not about doing things to our children.* If you think something is working, it is important to look at why. You may see yelling as working - but why? You may find that when we take a step back and look at our goals as parents and carers and the other half to this relationship we are building with our children, that what was 'working' is conflicting with this.

Bolding mine. That is a great motto. Your entire post has given me a lot to think about and a new way of looking at things.

I highly suggest some reading! Raising our Children, Raising ourselves is a book right up your ally! I also recommend 'P.E.T. - Parenting Effectiness Training'...a good book very similar to the one mentioned above. Sometimes we need to centre ourselves as well. Sometimes doing a bit of reading can help us get back on track and remember our goals and how we can better keep to them.

I will certainly look those books up. I'm so bad about reading. I always say I'm going to get "this book" or "that book" but I never do. I'll see if my library's have those on file because I hate buying books. Thank you for the recommendations. I haven't read anything except for online resources. Will those books teach me to ask "20 questions" when dealing with a situation as you were able to?



Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
Wow this is a great thread.

I truly, honestly believe in my heart that although a big part of parenting is to teach (via modeling, information, role playing, and guidance) acceptable behaviour, the larger part of parenting is to enable the little person to grow into him or herself in a way that he or she will use his or her strengths to address his or her weaknesses.

ITA with you. And yelling at dd is not being a good role model. (Again though. Where is the line that defines "yelling" and "raising your voice sternly"? Is there a line?

I personally will not use any method with him that I feel doesn't preserve my dignity and his dignity. That's what I can control - me. He may become a wild drug addict. He may not. All I can do is behave the way I think is best, educate myself, and be willing to explore options within that framework.

That's good. As a kid, there was nothing more humiliating than my mom "disciplining" me in public around her friends/my friends, etc. That's something I need to keep in mind for now and forever. I don't want to treat Lily with disrespect or treat her like less than a person. My boss has jumped me a few times lately (which probably adds to my stress). I feel about an inch big, that my job is on the line and it makes me want to cry. I don't want to do that to Lily.











Quote:


Originally Posted by *cfiddlinmama* 
One big thing I've noticed is if I put the time into my kids - I interact with them and do things with them - they behave so much better and get along so much better. If I'm busy and distracted they start falling apart.

I've found this too. Doing dishes, for example used to be a daunting task because the babe would fuss and whine and pull my pants down the whole time. I'd finally give up trying to do the dishes and go play with her. Now that she's big enough, I pull up a chair and she helps me rinse the dishes. Sure, water gets everywhere--but mama gets work done and we spend valuable time together. She's also learning/being creative in the process.

I play/interact with her a LOT. I was starting to wonder if I played with her too much, resulting in her acting out or someting. (IRL people tell me you shouldn't be your kids friend--you should be "the boss" that your kid listens to and respects. I thought she might be viewing me as a playmate instead of someone she needed to listen to at times or something. I don't know.

I used to be a punitive, authoritarian mother. My kids behaved so much worse than they do now. We've been GDing for 4 years now. I'm a better, calmer mother, my kids are happier and behave a whole lot better. The difference in my two kids that were spanked and that two that weren't is huge too.

Thank you. That gives me a lot of inspiration to not be a authoriarian mother (which I haven't been...but I was questioning if I should be).

For me, making the switch meant: 1.) not allowing myself to hit my kids EVER AGAIN. 2.) whisper instead of yell. 3.) walk away for a few minutes and take deep breaths if I was losing it. 4.) change my expectations about child behavior and think realistically about what they were capable of developmentally. 5.) play with my kids and enjoy their company. 6.) calm down and try and de-stress my life as much as possible.

All good reminders. I have walked away lately when I'm at my wits end. I feel bad abandoning her...but there are times I need to walk away.

I hope this made a little sense.







Parenting is hard work. Single parenting is even harder. Hang in there mama. You're doing just fine.

Thanks. All any of us can do is try our best.

 I can't stress enough that I'm not a monster-mom. I've just had my dark moments lately. I love nothing more than spending time with dd. I've, on many occasions, gave up my shower time so I could spend a few more minutes with her playing or cuddling before I rush off to work. I let her explore as much as she wants as long as it's safe for her.

I try to teach her natural consequences. I realize she's still a bit young, but she's understanding the concept of cause/effect now. Example--she kept wanting my coffee today (like usual). I had just poured a fresh cup. She wanted it. I stuck my finger in it to make sure it wasn't too hot. It was hot...but not hot enough to burn. I took her finger and dipped the tip in until she pulled it out. Later, I offered her my coffee. She shook her head "no". Lesson effectively taught







(Some might view that as cruel. The coffee was NOT hot enough to harm her, but hot enough to teach her to leave it alone).

But I'm also human and I snap at times. That's MY problem. Not her problem. That's something *I* have to work on. Thanks to ALL of you who have reminded me of that. When I read about GD, I knew it was for me and my daughter. The concept makes since and it's how I want to raise her. But I'm human....and I see IRL sources that make me question my parenting approach. Luckily I have all of you to help me get back on track.

Dude! This is long post. Sorry.


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## Mama2Bug (Feb 18, 2005)

I'm so glad that you're rethinking the path you may have taken. I was raised by a mother (also a single, working mom until she remarried when I was 6) who began hitting and yelling in frustration. I have very early childhood memories. When I was tiny, I _worshipped_ my mama. She was amazing. As I got older though, she started smacking me and yelling. The older I got, the worse it got- until it became out-and-out abuse. I was a stubborn kid. Once she started hurting me, I stopped caring what she thought. She felt like she had to do "more" to get me to obey her.







It didn't end until I went home to visit for the holidays *at 22 years old*. She didn't like something I said and slapped my face. I told her that if she ever hit me again, I would call the police and that would be the last time she ever saw me.

Our relationship was forever damaged and I am sure it all began with a little smack to the hand.

I know you can do better.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Hey OP we KNOW you're not a monster mom.


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## cfiddlinmama (May 9, 2006)

OP - please don't feel like we're picking on you or making you out to be a bad mom. That wasn't the intention at all. We've all made mistakes. Believe me, there are a lot of parenting decisions and actions that I deeply regret. We just have to live and learn and do better.

My wonderful aunt (who has 6 kids and attachment parented/ GD all of them) told me "THERE IS IS NO PLACE FOR GUILT IN MOTHERHOOD." We have to learn from our mistakes, apologize to our children, move on and do better. That was some of the best advice I have ever received. When I made the switch from the discipline I was raised with to GD I was really beating myself up. I would read this forum and bawl my eyes out about how I've failed my kids blah blah blah. Her advice has helped me so much. My kids aren't scarred for life and I'm a good mom. (Not a perfect mom, a good mom.)

You are so far ahead of where I am. You don't have to try and undo things you've done in the past. You have a great start and just got a little side tracked and scared. No worries! You're doing great!

Two books that really helped me to analyze a situation (you were asking about "20 questions" to ann of loxley) are:

The Discipline Book by Dr Sears. (I know that there is controversy about that book here - it was a really good starting place for me. Really helped me to look at things from my children's perspective and rethink punitive discipline.)

Adventures in Gentle Discipline. It's published by La Leche League. The book is full of scenarios and situations. There are paragraphs written by parents about what worked for them. There are lots of good ideas in that book.

I hope this helps a little. It sounds like you are a great mom. Try not to listen to the "others" so much. Listen to your gut and love your daughter. You're doing great!


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:

But by raising my voice to voice my boundry--am I instilling fear into her like sebandg'smama's mom did to her?

Some say voice raising is okay. Some say it will scar my kid. I guess this is a personal choice kind of thing?
Using an authority I mean it voice is one thing. What I'm refering too is flat out yelling (and not saying this is what you do) flat out yelling is loosing controll and works off the idea of scaring the other person and controll. It also can be permissive when its done to simpily gain controll in "your" favor and the real problem solving issues are not addressed. Raising a voice I think can be fine Yelling no. (not that I haven't BTDT though...)

Deanna


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I think that you are having success with yelling right now because you are scaring her, once she gets used to you yelling it won't work anymore. Kids also get used to hitting and it really doesn't work. GD is hard at first and it takes a lot more energy than responding out of anger to scare your child into being a mainstream clone but the payoffs are really great. Things will get easier as she learns to talk more, it sounds like she may be needing a bit more sleep or food lately. Maybe she is going through a growth spurt, has an ear infection, or is coming down with a cold, or she just needs more time with you. All of these things make kids more whiny and when they are babies they can't talk to tell you things so they do what babies do and cry and whine because that is the only way they can communicate. The baby years are very hard because babies only communicate with crying and whining. As she starts to talk she will still whine because she is used to crying to get her needs met and it takes a long time to adjust to talking to get them met instead.

I really don't think that scaring her out of communicating with you is the way to go and I don't believe that your neighbor is practicing GD it sounds more like permissive parenting and that is not any type of discipline style. I think that it is important to set boundaries and to be willing to say no to a child and follow through with enforcing that in a gentle way even if it means holding her, moving her away from an object several times, or carrying her out of the room. You don't have to let your kids walk all over you and have everything they want to be a gentle parent. Hitting and yelling don't guarantee good kids, my brother and I were horrible kids and worse teenagers with those two things in the house, we adjusted to them and tended not to get to concerned about them except in the immediate moment they were happening.

If you can get out for a while then I think you should. If you can save just a few dollars aside from every paycheck and higher someone to babysit that you can trust that would probably help a lot. I find that having a bit of time out for myself is really nice every few months. The more you set aside the more likely it is that you can pay someone well and get someone who will get a good quality babysitter. Even just setting aside $10 a month can get you a couple hours of quiet time to regroup.

It may help to just put your dd down and walk away when she bites instead of reacting. Also watch for the signs that she is going to bite if it seems to be an attention thing and give her a teether or something else and tell her to bite that. I had dd wear a teether for a long time so she could just bite that while she was teething because biting is what you think about when your teeth are always bothering you and there.


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## Susan Kunkel (Jul 13, 2005)

You can practice gd with out having wild children. I remind my sons that in doors we walk. If at your home they started to run I would remind them again. If they were out of control we would leave. No punishment would be handed out but the have learned that I mean what I say.
Susan


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## Unity9 (Sep 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Twocoolboys* 
I have found that the older generation has a very selective memory when it comes to how their kids behaved.

I am 100% agreed with you









My in-laws always brag about how their sons were well-behaved, never touched anything in other people houses, or never begged for any toys or stuff. I think they have selective memory; also, their kids feared the parents


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## Unity9 (Sep 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Susan Kunkel* 
You can practice gd with out having wild children. I remind my sons that in doors we walk. If at your home they started to run I would remind them again. If they were out of control we would leave. No punishment would be handed out but the have learned that I mean what I say.
Susan

Susan, I used to use those phrases too; but I realized that is just threatning. I believe all IFs phrases count as threatning. Telling them you would leave the place" is punishment. I used to do the same thing, or sometimes it is hard for me to change the old habit. "if you don't clean up your toys, you won't get story time!" I don't think GD would agree with that


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## I-AM-Mother (Aug 6, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Susan Kunkel* 
You can practice gd with out having wild children. I remind my sons that in doors we walk. If at your home they started to run I would remind them again. If they were out of control we would leave. No punishment would be handed out but the have learned that I mean what I say.Susan

you sound like my kind of mother. when I first became a member of this site, I had many of the same kind of concerns as the OP but have arrived at the conclusion that most mothers who practice GD do not know when to draw the line. In order words, they do NOT mean what they say.

It's rather sad because unfortunately it turns off a LOT of mothers & fathers who ARE looking for a new philosophy of parenting. It's really difficult to "convert" mothers.


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## IdahoMom (Nov 8, 2005)

I agree that you can be a gentle parent without being a doormat. Kids DO need some structure and boundary, they are just happier that way, and it prepares them better for adulthood.

And I have to say, terms like "mainstream clone" are really insulting and demeaning, and won't win anyone over who might be on the fence.







:


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## Susan Kunkel (Jul 13, 2005)

WHen I tell my son we will leave if you cannot calm down we do. They go home and play at home. NO shaming .yelling or time out is given. Sometimes they have just had enough and need a break.
Susan


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## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

I'm just in tears.

I know it's the age.

I'm really having hard time with her lately. Still.

I was off work thurs, fri, and saturday. Back to work today (and I'm happy to be here w/o a kid







).

I lost it with her last night (yelling). She was over-tired and her "new" thing is to fight sleep for as long as possible. I try everything. And I lose it and fuss at her.

Today, my friend with her wild children came over before my first cup of coffee. I no sooner woke up and she called wanting to come for coffee. I said, "sure come on over". I was hoping with everything I had she'd leave those devil children at home. Nope. I heard them coming from a mile away. So, my freaking nerves were rattled. If those were my kids, I would send them to bording school. O.M.G. So, I'm distacted with her kids and MY kid gets on the patio table and gets a hold of a dangerous object (beacause I was distracted by her kids). I cussed at DD and screamed at her. (Because getting on the damn table is a HUGE no no. Why the hell can't she listen to me?). Sigh.

Friend tells me that her boyfriend is having a hard time with her kids, that he expects them to behave (gasp!)...that he's rough on them. (I think he has every right--her kids are freaking nuts! And aparently my kid is on her way to acting like them). She said if she and boyfriend don't work out, she was wanting to stay with me. I finaly told her, "I love you to pieces, but I'm sorry--I cannot handle your kids on a regualar basis." (Her boyfriend can't handle them. I can't handle them. Maybe she'll get the hint that her kids our OUT of control!)

She and her kids left. I took a zanex. I laid on the bed with dd and read books to her, on the verge of crying because of me fussing at her. I just don't know what else to do. She's HORRIBLE at times. I feel horrible. I just don't know how to handle her at times.

DD's dad came over to get her so I could go to work. She ripped out a handful of the cats hair. She was hitting her dad, ripping his glasses off her face. She was scratching herself, throwng herself on the floor. She was screaming for me. We dealt with it. Then it comes time for me to get in the shower. I was holding her and gave her the options, "You either get in the shower with mama or you go with your dad. Those are your options." (She loves water/showers). I went to set her down so we can get in the shower and she just started SCREAMING like there was no tomorrow. I pick her back up and she just continued screaming. Her dad was right there and I just verbally LOST it with her. Then she laughed and she was fine. He took her so I could take a shower. Behind 2 closed doors I heard her SCREAMING at the top of her lungs for the entire time I was in the shower/getting dressed (10 minutes or so).

He's not one to raise his voice with her...but he's starting to. WE don't know what the hell else to do with her right now. I just want to cry. I never have a break (other than work).

I swear....if DD is awake and acting this way when I get home....I'm leaving. I'm going to leave and tell her dad to be gone with her when I get home....I don't care where he takes her. He can just keep her for a couple days or something. She's driving me nuts.

Days like this, I don't think I'm cut out to be a mom. I just don't know what to do. I try every gentle approach and it's not working. I don't think I want to go home tonight


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
(Because getting on the damn table is a HUGE no no. Why the hell can't she listen to me?). Sigh.

Because she is just a baby. I say that with all the gentleness in the world, because I can see that you are really struggling. But she is just a baby. She does not yet have the cognitive ability to plan actions, follow directions, and control impulses--not _reliably_, anyway. You may see examples of her planning and reasoning and being playfully contrary, but, largely, she is a baby exploring her world, following her curiosity where it leads, and frustrated when she hits obstacles to her exploration.

When ds was this age, I either supervised him climbing on the table (when I could dedicate the time and attention), or I made it impossible to climb on the table. For us, that meant making sure the chairs were pushed in as far as possible, and opening the seat to the bench that serves as seating. Without places to stand and climb, ds couldn't get on the table. Moving the chairs away from the table completely (against the wall maybe?) might also work.

For grabbing glasses and slapping faces, baby is immediately put down. Stay calm, comfort the baby, and ride out the tantrum.

I don't think I'd try choices ("shower or dad?") yet at this age, esp if she is already upset. I'd try distracting with an activity that you think would be the most calming. I probably would have tried "let's go have a shower. Splashy, splashy! Do you want to bring some cups in the shower?" If I couldn't get her enthused about the shower, I'd "tag out" and let dad take over.


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## _betsy_ (Jun 29, 2004)

Raising your voice might be *working* right now, but 1) it won't in the long run, she'll just tune you out and 2) what are you teaching her? The bigger persona lways must be followed/always "wins"?

DD had a rough spot around that age, too. But she's getting bigger, and the more words she gains the easier she is to deal with.

My SIL is a yeller/slepper/spanker. You want to talk about wild kids? Hers are absolute hellions, all day everyday.


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## whalemilk (Jul 11, 2008)

Hah, oh wow, 16 months about did me in. Cute as can be, but so difficult. That was a year ago for us, and now with a 2 year old who is still energetic, loud, and challenging, I can say one thing--I didn't realize just how much she was still a baby then. And even though she is still very much pushing boundaries now, an amazing thing happened in the last 12 months: she learned how to talk, and started becoming a reasonable person! I mean, yeah, she still likes to misbehave just for the sake of seeing what I will do, but now I can actually have something resembling a conversation with her! And this gives me hope that it will only get better from here.

Also, while she is a "difficult" child as she gets older the rewards of this become more obvious too--she's very funny and cracks up strangers, even, all the time. She loves to draw and drew me a card for my birthday this year. She's smart and learns fast, so if you actually get her to listen to you, you don't have to explain things more than twice. She has a huge, huge heart and is full of love for everyone. She's curious and you can tell that her thoughtful "wheels" are always turning. I know by the time she's a teenager, we'll be having amazing discussions, and she'll be constantly impressing me with her knowledge and challenging me as a person.

I think you're in for the same.

PS--I am totally with you on the monkey children. I know JUST what you're talking about, ack. While mom stands there smiling beatifically, "Oh Aiden, please don't get into mommy's culinary knife collection? Is that OK?" AAAAAGHHHH!


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## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whalemilk* 
Hah, oh wow, 16 months about did me in. Cute as can be, but so difficult.

Yeah, that's where I am.

Her dad text me asking me if I was okay. He said she didn't take a nap (again). He said they were "chilling" and he hoped she didn't turn into a devil child by the end of the night.

I told him, "I'm ok. But if she's awake and pulls the same sh*t she did with me earlier, I'm leaving and aint coming back until you're gone with her."

My nerves are raw right now. I typically hate being away from her, but at this moment in time--I want to disappear for a week.

And you're right--she's so doggone cute right now, learning new things/words. She's an awesome kid except for these ridiculous melt downs.

She is advanced too. She's not gifted, but she's advanced. My therapist used to give baby IQ tests. She tells me all the time that she's very advanced for her age. So, sure--she might be 16 months old but she's doing things that most kids shouldn't do until 2, 2 1/2. If she's advanced enough to do "older kid" stuff....MY thinking is there's NO excuse for the BS she's putting me through. I'm just at my wits end lately.

But thanks for the encouragement. This phase shall pass.


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## Susan Kunkel (Jul 13, 2005)

There are times when we all need a break from being mommy. My ds who is now almost seven is a handful. Some children need more hands on parenting then others. my seven year old needs me to keep a close watch on him my 4 year old can go off and play by himself. Both however at 16 months needed mommy to practice hands on parenting. AN example from the past would be saying we stand on the floor not the table while swooping down off the table.
These days will pass and they will get easier.
Ssuan


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
She is advanced too. She's not gifted, but she's advanced. My therapist used to give baby IQ tests. She tells me all the time that she's very advanced for her age. So, sure--she might be 16 months old but she's doing things that most kids shouldn't do until 2, 2 1/2. If she's advanced enough to do "older kid" stuff....MY thinking is there's NO excuse for the BS she's putting me through.

I can believe she is advanced, and doing things other kids do at 2 or 2.5. My dd was the same way. But, here is the thing.....while she is advanced in some areas, she is very much 16 mo in others. I had to learn that, while my dd may have had advanced verbal skills, grasp of concepts, and sense of humor, that did not mean she had more impulse control, patience, or emotional aptitude than could be expected for a child her age. It can be really difficult to reconcile the two "faces" of your child, and not expect too much from them. My dd is now 7, and is still asynchronous in this way. It is still tough! But when I remember that she is *just 7*, even though she often talks/acts much, much older, I have more patience for her age appropriate behavioral challenges.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
I'm just in tears.

He's not one to raise his voice with her...but he's starting to. WE don't know what the hell else to do with her right now. I just want to cry. I never have a break (other than work).

I swear....if DD is awake and acting this way when I get home....I'm leaving. I'm going to leave and tell her dad to be gone with her when I get home....I don't care where he takes her. He can just keep her for a couple days or something. She's driving me nuts.

Days like this, I don't think I'm cut out to be a mom. I just don't know what to do. I try every gentle approach and it's not working. I don't think I want to go home tonight









You do need a break. It is just fine to take one. Can you add an hour or two on to the care she has while you're working once in a while and just go somewhere and breathe?

What struck me in what you said was that she was screaming a lot. 16 months is an age of huge frustration about language. We had great luck with signing - I used the Signing Time DVDs and that was also a bit of a break for me.

I definitely second what others have said about advanced. Advanced does NOT mean emotionally. At some stages it's worse because their desires run so far ahead of their capabilities. So do remember that her feelings and impulse control are just NOT advanced.

Also, when my son was going through the 'scream over choices' thing - sometimes we let him scream; it honestly is okay to let them have their feelings. And for a short time I actually didn't offer choices all the time. It just was too overwhelming for him to have to choose, especially when he was overtired.

In "The Happiest Toddler on the Block" the author also talks about the caveman thing and that worked for us. The theory is that you're saying something like "we don't have a purple star, you can have a blue star" and the child is focused on HEAR ME PURPLE STAR WANTED. So instead of trying to reason or end the discussion you say "you want the PURPLE STAR. You WANT. PURPLE. STAR." You just empathize rather than doing anything else. That worked really well - it didn't END the crying, but it helped it peter out sooner.

Hang in there!


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Unity9* 
Susan, I used to use those phrases too; but I realized that is just threatning. I believe all IFs phrases count as threatning. Telling them you would leave the place" is punishment. I used to do the same thing, or sometimes it is hard for me to change the old habit. "if you don't clean up your toys, you won't get story time!" I don't think GD would agree with that









Leaving a place when a childs behavior is inapporopate is not punishment.. ITs actually showing respect for the child and not countinuing to place them in situations where there not ready to be.. Now it can be done punitivly. HEY STOP! I'm warning you! Stop or we go home 1 2 3 okay funs over we are leaving! (punitive) VS getting down at there level this is not a place we can run around if you want to stay we need to walk with mommy if you can't then it will be time for us to leave.. If necessary end it. Both may get a sad response from your child but one adds shame the other is reality.

Deanna


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

First of all, its OK to need a break and make the necessary plans to get it. Not knowing your circumstances, I don't know what you can manage. But it sounds like you are neglecting a basic parenting truth -- we are better mommies when we take care of ourselves too! You know the line about putting on your own oxegen mask in the event of an airplane emergency? That's because we can't help others if we pass out from lack of oxegen. You are in the same place -- you can't help your child while you are passed out from lack of whatever.

So, hire a sitter. Trade sitting with someone. Make arrangements with her father... You NEED some time to yourself. Maybe you need it every week, maybe every month, maybe just now. Do whatever it takes to get it so you have the ability to go on calmly.

Next, it is also OK to take a break from situations that put you over the edge. Here, you need to take responsiblity for the situation with your friend. You know her kids are wild, you know your child is wild when they are around. So for god's sake, say "I'm really sorry, I'm not up for company right now." No guilt. No excuses. No lies. But "NO" just the same.

From there, go back and look at some of the suggestions other have given -- they are really great ideas and insights into where you are.


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## stickywicket67 (Jan 23, 2007)

OP-
a couple things jumped out at me...

1) your mom and grandma saying you weren't like your daughter at her age (in other words-better "behaved").

i am NOTHING like my son. (he is 1) i know i was not like him. at. all. my mom told me all the time growing up that i was an angelic child. sweet, quiet, well behaved, mature, lots of words. i think that your mom is probably right. you were different and _are_ different from your dd.
i know w/ my son i burn out really fast. i need my peace and quiet. i can be social but i need to recharge and have a break. my ds is high energy. has been since birth. into everything. "wild child". he is also super social, outgoing, smiles for everyone, easily frustrated and stubborn as hell. it's _temperament_ and we happen to be opposites.









2) you allowing your friend to come over with the kids before you're really up/ the xanax / the shower situation and freaking out about it.

i have soooooo been there.

it sounds like you have a really, really hard time expressing your needs and boundaries without feeling guilty and/or getting to the point where you are maxed out and flip out. i do too. you need a break. i can't imagine being a single mom. you have to pace yourself and cut yourself some slack.
it is ok to say to your friend i'm tired i can't have you over right now but let's meet up at the park a bit later. honestly, her kids sound like too much for you. that's ok! doesn't mean she's a bad parent just try not to make it your problem. i think it's compounding the exasperation you are feeling with you daughter and might be a time to take a little break from that family or plan a mama only day out!

in my situation, i take up all offers to babysit. his godmother takes him for walks and to the park once a week while i recharge mentally. the girls i work with love to take him on errands in the stroller and i let them go for it. any time i get the chance to calm my nerves and recharge i take it. my dh has him for half the day while i'm at work. dh is endlessly patient and a curious busy guy himself- he can keep up with ds much better than me. twice a week ds and i go to play groups in safe spaces with other kids so i can talk to the other moms and let ds burn off the energy. i'm pacing myself...16 months-2 years is tough! really tough. i'm not there yet but i've read about it in posts on here and in The Your One Year Old- by Louise Bates Ames. good book btw. but i'm scared!

i feel for you.









hang in there!!


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## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

Aunt Flow came today. The past 2 cycles, I have been hell on wheels a week before aunt flow. When AF came today, it finally dawned on me that my lack of patience was PMS. I never used to have PMS like this. Never. No excuse. But maybe some kind of hormonal/herbal remedy might make things easier on me/dd. I'll look into it.

Quote:

it sounds like you have a really, really hard time expressing your needs and boundaries without feeling guilty and/or getting to the point where you are maxed out and flip out.
Yep. I'm bad about this. Friend mentioned sometime last week that her and boyfriend were having problems and wanted to know if she/kids could stay with me if needed. We were on the phone when she asked. I said, "Yeah. That wouldn't be a problem....." In my head, I'm saying "NO NO NO NO NO!" When she came over and wanted to see the upstairs to my house while still talking about moving in--it occurred to me that she was serious. I finally told her.."no offense but I don't think I can handle your kids full time..." So, yeah. It's hard to voice what I want because I don't want to hurt people. (Having problems with telling DD's dad "no" as well. Problems there too. Sigh).

Friend always has her kids. I do too. She wanted me to go shopping a couple weeks ago. I asked her, "Are you taking the kids?" She said her kids go everywhere with her. I suddenly had diarreah and couldn't go









Yes. I totally need a break. I'm ready for one. Last time I had a night out w/o DD was February. It's really, truly hard to find a sitter for extracuricular activities. My gramma and dd's dad watch her while I work. I feel like I impose on my gramma when I need a night of fun (she's moans/groans and says "I guess I could but...." so I tell her "nevermind"). And dd's dad is usually always working and can't help me out. I make $8.40/hour. So, if I pay a sitter, there's no point in going out because I won't have any money to do anything. (Plus dd is having extreme stranger/separation anxiety and I would feel horrible leaving her with someone new. Sigh). I usually get off at 11pm. I've gone out ONE time after work for an hour. I got my a$$ chewed by gramma. It's just hard getting "me time".

DD is usually an angel-child. She has her moments, as we all do. Those moments is what I'm having problems with. I'm taking everyone's advice and I'm working really hard to correct my bad parenting.

Another problem is that DD is basically raised in 3 different houses--mine, gramma's, and her dads. I think DD has too many mixed signals/"rules". I might say "STOP". Her dad might say, "no". Gramma might say "baby don't do that". Gramma put out GLASS pumpkin decorations today, at perfect height for DD to get to them. (For the love of God. The woman drives me batty sometimes). I go to drop DD off. She went right for the glass pumpkins. I sternly said "NOOOO!" DD's smile turned into a puckered frown and she came running to me for a hug. Gramma started crying because DD was crying







. Therefore--dd has "rules" with me and she gets to slide with gramma, etc etc.

*shrugs* We'll get through this. Mama's gonna stock up on Midol and some books ya'll have recommended.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
Yeah, that's where I am.

Her dad text me asking me if I was okay. He said she didn't take a nap (again). He said they were "chilling" and he hoped she didn't turn into a devil child by the end of the night.

I told him, "I'm ok. But if she's awake and pulls the same sh*t she did with me earlier, I'm leaving and aint coming back until you're gone with her."

My nerves are raw right now. I typically hate being away from her, but at this moment in time--I want to disappear for a week.

And you're right--she's so doggone cute right now, learning new things/words. She's an awesome kid except for these ridiculous melt downs.

She is advanced too. She's not gifted, but she's advanced. My therapist used to give baby IQ tests. She tells me all the time that she's very advanced for her age. So, sure--she might be 16 months old but she's doing things that most kids shouldn't do until 2, 2 1/2. If she's advanced enough to do "older kid" stuff....MY thinking is there's NO excuse for the BS she's putting me through. I'm just at my wits end lately.

But thanks for the encouragement. This phase shall pass.

Have you explored the possiblity that the stress that you have been experiencing lately may be making her more clingy and upset. Children do not react well to stress and it sounds like it has been building up for quite a while. What you are describing sounds like a cycle of anger and stress that you really need a break from so you can try to break it. She also does have an excuse for acting this way, she is a baby. She may very well have the IQ of a two year old, but two is the age when children start to whine and throw tantrums, it is a notoriously rotten age to be a mother in no matter how you parent.


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## Greenmama2AJ (Jan 10, 2008)

Maybaby - I couldn't help respond to your post.

I think part of the problem is your labelling behaviour good/bad - and you're letting normal behaviour (like defiance) become a personal attack on you as a parent.

Firstly, stop blaming your child for your bad begaviour.

Quote:

So, I'm distacted with her kids and MY kid gets on the patio table and gets a hold of a dangerous object (beacause I was distracted by her kids). *I cussed at DD and screamed at her*.
There are always distractions - cussing and screaming? This is 100% in your control. You think your friend has "devil children" but you're not even owning up to your own poor behaviour. It's not someone else's fault because they made your 'nerves rattled'.

The reality - you have to *choose* to be gentle with your children.

You're also setting up yourself for power struggles by throwing out ultimatums to a 16 mth old.

Quote:

You either get in the shower with mama or you go with your dad. Those are your options."
She's too little to make that choice. Just lead her gently. You can ask her this question but don't expect an educated response.

I think looking at the 4 reasons for misbehaviour might help. While thing feel like personal attacks, there is always an under lying reason. Every time your LO is challenging ask yourself WHY is she REALLY misbehaving? (Power? Attention? Revenge? Helplessness?) Then help he meet these needs in a positive way.

*Demonstrate the good behaviour you want your child to have*.


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## accountclosed2 (May 28, 2007)

Maybe you can think of raising your voice as a technique. You keep all your frustration out of your voice and choice of words, stay calm, breathe slowly. Choose word that are unemotional. Then you just raise your voice a fraction, and speak with conviction (sound really sure of yourself). "Right. That is enough. I think you are done with this (bath, lunch, playing etc). Come here and mama will dry you/Let mama have your plate/Time to go out. Lets find your shoes." You may not need yo raise your voice much or at all with your particular child, or you might need the speak quite loudly Make your voice sound not like an order, or a question or out of control, but as if you confidently expect your child to cooperate happily.

You use this voice when it is important for you that your child cooperates, so not all the time. Your child will learn to know when you are serious, as opposed to playtime.

I don't have a problem with leaving if your children run riot. I have only one child of my own, but I've worked as a nanny for the past 10 years or so. Leaving is just a simple consequence. Especially if you are at someone elses house or a playgroup or something where others are directly affected by your children's behaviour. I don't think it would be respectful to stay. Just as it is important that my children are respected at all times, I want them to lean that respecting others is important too.

Even a very well-behaved 3-year old might forget and do something dangerous, like your DD climbing up on the table, especially in company. Probably not done in defiance, just forgetting, and having fun. Don't get angry. Just remind her. And, like a pp said, try to prevent it happening, by either child-proofing the table, or keeping your child with you in company.

Another thing - she's 16 months old, she doesn't _do it to you_, most of the time she just does it. Don't take it personally! She is much too young to be thinking about the consequences of her actions.


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## Breeder (May 28, 2006)

We've used GD with DS1 since he was born (and we didn't know what "GD" was) and he is very polite and well mannered young man.

GD doesn't = no boundaries. Alot of people think if you're not going to spank then you just don't DO anything at all and parent that way.


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