# Cervix dilation w/out exam?



## amyjeans (Jul 27, 2004)

Hi again All!
A couple of weeks ago, I came across a startling method for determining the dialation of a woman's cervix WITHOUT internal examination!
Apparently, if one were to look from a woman's rectum up to her tailbone,one could see a thin red line which is in direct relation to the dialation of the cervix. The length anyway.
Has anyone heard of this, and is it true?
Curious!!!! I hope my description was accurate, albeit graphic.

Thanks for reading!
amyjean


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## Lula's Mom (Oct 29, 2003)

I haven't heard of that, but I'm just glad the directions weren't what I thought the first time I read your post:
"Look up a woman's rectum..."


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## obnurse (May 18, 2004)

I have seen more womens' rectums and tailbones in 6 years in L&D than I sometimes care to remember... and I have NEVER seen or heard about it before!
I would think with all this GBS crapola that if there was a definative way to tell dilation without actually feeling the cervix, we would all be doing it!


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## pamamidwife (May 7, 2003)

I have read about this from the UK midwives - they use this method alot. I have noticed that the line is definitely purpleish in color and it really changes! I have alot written about this in a great midwifery text I have.

Another thing I notice is that when a woman is 7-10cm, her sacrum really protrudes with every contraction. This is felt easily when a hand is lightly placed on their sacrum.

So, yep, it's done in many other parts of the world. However, in our country we don't trust much other than reaching up every two hours to see what's going on up there. Since it's not an exact science, and we can't seem to trust anything other than linear numbers, it's not going to be used or even taught. I never learned anything like this at midwifery school - it wasnt' until I started researching more about the UK midwives and some of their beliefs that I found info like this out.

ack!

Here's a great article: http://www.withwoman.co.uk/contents/info/rhombus.html


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## amyjeans (Jul 27, 2004)

Pamamidwife!
That is just absolutley amazing! The article was great! I love learning all this stuff! It makes our birth experience that more enjoyable, if not exciting! Knowledge is power!
Warm Regards,
amyjean


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## cottonwood (Nov 20, 2001)

Yeah Pam, that's how my midwife could tell that I was nearing 2nd stage -- that little bulge in the lower back. Of course a woman has to be _off_ her back in the first place for it to be noticed...

Anyway, Dawn brings up an interesting point. If infection is really such a concern, and given that numerical measure of dilation isn't an accurate indicator of how close to birth a woman is, or whether she should push for that matter, _why_ is it still done?


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## oshunmama (May 19, 2004)

I'm gonna run to the bathroom and get a mirror! LOL

And yes, I thought you had to look UP the rectum too! At first I was like "I think I'd rather have a normal internal!" LMAO


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## amyjeans (Jul 27, 2004)

Perhaps I should work on my wording next time huh? LOL









amyjean


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## doctorjen (May 29, 2003)

I had a labor patient last night and went looking for this line. Unfortunately, I wasn't looking until very late in labor, so I couldn't tell if there was any change over time. I think maybe the labor nurse thought I was a little crazy as this mama was really comfortable squatting on the bed, so it took some effort ot get behind and under her enough to be looking. Anyway, she was nearly pushing before I thought to look, so I couldn't tell if there was any change over time. Have to wait for the next lady, I guess.
I, too, thought the original description involved looking up the rectum! There is a much older retired family doc here who did a lot of deliveries in his day. He always checked dilation by doing a rectal exam as he had been taught that this prevents infection by keeping the doc's hands out of the vagina. I think his patients universally hated that practice, though.
And my mama last night was a first time mom who pushed out a 9 lb 13 oz baby!


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## CarolynnMarilynn (Jun 3, 2004)

Hi there!

I have read (and used the information) about this phenomenon as well. It DOES take looking at that area a lot to notice a difference enough to predict progress, or not. It seems that some women show this sign more than others. If a woman is robust, it seems less obvious. I was at a birth last week where we commented on seeing that red line and knowing it was almost time.

It is neat to look at all of the outward signs and make a picture of where you think the woman is (body language and movement, focus (inward or out), pressure changes, lower-back (rhombus) arching, the red line, emotional factors and declarations, where you hear the fetal heart as compared to earlier, changes in show, and changes in the kind of contractions and where the mom feels them, among others).

Carolynn


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## StacyL (May 4, 2004)

So, after reading this I go and bend over in front of a full length mirror, (great visual, I know!) and sure enough there is a red line! And it sort of materializes, or becomes more red the longer I am bent over. But how do you tell how it relates to dilation? I mean, it was at least 4-5cm long. And where do you start from? From your, ahem, anus? I am 37 weeks, but I've never had an internal exam, so I don't know for certain how much I am dilated. I do know I am somewhat dialted though just by how I feel ( I had a miscarriage last fall and was dilated 2-3 for a week afterward.)


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## oshunmama (May 19, 2004)

I can't see my butt no matter how hard I try to twist with the mirror. I tried to have dh look last night, but he was being so silly I was having trouble not cracking up and peeing all over the bed! Oh well....


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## pamamidwife (May 7, 2003)

omg, you all are so funny!

blueviolet, why isn't it used more often? because it's not an EXACT science. Really, why are so many vaginal exams done in the first place? I've seen women checked when they're waiting for labor during an induction with BROKEN WATER - and the woman is chatty, some mild contractions, no big deal. Still, they check all the time. What are they expecting to find? A sudden jump through transition while talking about Oprah?

Really, it doesn't matter because the medical model (and some midwives) cannot handle not knowing. Geez, I struggle with it, too. But, WHY do we need to know? We all know it's relative and things are different for every woman.


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## Victorian (Jan 2, 2003)

my midwives used this line while in labor with ds. I thought that they said it becomes more prominent at full dialation, but I was a little distracted at the time LOL.


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