# Extra-Curricular Activities for a 12 year old optional???



## JJMama (Nov 19, 2001)

I have not posted on this board since my nursing days. Oh, those were the days.

My DS is 12 and in 6th grade. We live in a suburban community where most kids are over scheduled and do a lot of extra-curricular stuff. I try not to over-schedule and let my kids pursue their own interests. My 12 year-old has never been into sports. He plays the drums. He takes one drum lesson per week (it's a 30 minute lesson). That's it. Nothing else. At the beginning of the school year, DH told him he has to pick ONE extra-curricular activity. There is a jazz band at school and he started Jazz Band, playing the drums.

Now he says he wants to quit. He complains every week that he doesn't want to go. "Why do I have to?" He carries on and on.

I am at a loss. I do not know if I "force" him to continue because we told him he has to do something. It seems sort of arbitrary to force him to continue doing something he really doesn't want to do. On the other hand, it seems like he doesn't want to do ANYTHING in his adolescent state. It is not acceptable to me for him to sit around and watch TV every single day after school. (Given a choice, that is what he would do). This is totally against my AP parenting style, but now that he is entering the teenage years, I am much less clear than I used to be.

BTW, he is not doing well in school. Doesn't complete homework, bad grades, very unorganized.............I think I would feel better if he was more successful right now and let it go, but I really don't know what to do.

ANY thoughts would be so appreciated.


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

I've got the opposite situation. My 12 year old wants to do everything, and she gets frustrated that there are so many conflicts. Her love is music--playing the violin and chorus, but she'd also like to join swim team and do track and field.

TV and other non-homework related screen time isn't an option for my kids on weeknights, so if they wanted to do nothing, they'd have to entertain themselves.

Personally, I'd insist he did at least one activity besides taking drum lessons. If he joined the jazz band, I'd insist he finish out the season, particularly if it's competitive (requires an audition) because he kept another kid out. If he didn't want to sign on for another season, I'd make sure he did something else.

Dh is a high school teacher, and in his experience (and there's research to back this up) the kids who are more involved tend to do better in school. Now that might be because more academically oriented kids are drawn to activities, but it also might be that being involved teaches them the value of organization and practice.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

So... what DOES he do except for his 30 minute drum lesson each week?


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JJMama* 
Now he says he wants to quit. He complains every week that he doesn't want to go. "Why do I have to?" He carries on and on.

Ask him what he wants to do instead.

I feel that teens need to be involved in something that is fun for them, but I'm really flexiable with my kids on what that is. May be Jazz band just isn't his thing. He's done it for a few months, he's given it a try. What would he like to do instead? If the point is to do something fun and interesting and this isn't it for him, what would be?

<<Dh is a high school teacher, and in his experience (and there's research to back this up) the kids who are more involved tend to do better in school. Now that might be because more academically oriented kids are drawn to activities, but it also might be that being involved teaches them the value of organization and practice. >>

yes, and since more people drown when ice cream sales are high, eating ice cream causes drowning!









Kids who are more invovled tend to be the kids who naturally push themselves more and have more organized, supportive families. So of course they are tend to also do well at schol. I'm not convinced that making your kids stick with something they don't like will help them in school.

BTW, I have one of each -- one kid in everything and the other kid in exactly one activity because that is required in our family, and she's changing acitivities because she decided she didn't like the last one. She mostly wants to watch NCIS and read vampire novels.

Some how, I thought that since we practiced APing we would never have this phase.


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## skreader (Nov 19, 2008)

What was the commitment when he joined the Jazz Band? A term, a year?

In answer to "Why do I have to go?" you can say something like "Because you made a commitment to join".

So, tell him he has to stick it out until the end of term (this month?) or the end of the school year (June?) - 6 more months.

My son is 11 & has 2 after-school activities & home-work.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

I have to agree wrt the length of commitment. Especially when it's a group activity - it wouldn't be fair to the rest of the group to simply drop in the middle. A "fair" requirement, to me, would be that he has to stick with it until after whatever concert they are currently preparing for.

In terms of extracurriculars and requiring them... I do think that extracurriculars are a good way for kids to expand their horizons a bit, stretch themselves by trying new things, having something different in their lives, expanding their social circle. And, in general, I think a busy kid is a kid without time to get into too much trouble. But it sometimes takes a few tries to find one that they really love.

My oldest tends to prefer more solitary pursuits - he'd be perfectly happy to spend all his time with a book or writing music. I've encouraged him to take those interests and build on them. So he joined Drama club and works on the school's Literary magazine. Both of which he heartily enjoys.

My youngest has never had to be pushed to join stuff. She prefers to be 100% busy, 100% of the time. She plays field hockey year round (with a short break for lacrosse in spring), is in a bunch of groups/clubs at school, and is auditioning for her home school's musical. The busier she is, the happier she is.

My only rule is that, once they join, they need to stick with it until a logical stopping point.


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Linda on the move* 

yes, and since more people drown when ice cream sales are high, eating ice cream causes drowning!









Kids who are more invovled tend to be the kids who naturally push themselves more and have more organized, supportive families. So of course they are tend to also do well at schol. I'm not convinced that making your kids stick with something they don't like will help them in school.

For music, anyway, it may be a bit more than that. There is some research that shows that music does help teach kids the importance of commitment, persistence and practice, because your perfomance doesn't improve without it. There is also a strong correlation between participation in music and mathematics, and some studies have shown academic achievement improves when kids are given music education.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

<< On the other hand, it seems like he doesn't want to do ANYTHING in his adolescent state. It is not acceptable to me for him to sit around and watch TV every single day after school.>>

What does he like do to besides tv/computer/gaming? Does he get together with friends? Ride his bike? Build model cars? Practice his drum? Care for a pet? Help around the house/yard?

Does he seem generally happy with his life? Does he have friends?

I'm asking because I started wondering today if rather than this really being about jazz band, he is depressed. I don't think the cure for depression is parents forcing kids to be in activities they don't want to be.

For the record, taking a lesson each week and practicing each day would meet the criteria at our house.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EFmom* 
For music, anyway, it may be a bit more than that.

Agreed. However, it's quite a leap to go from that to say that a parent forcing a child to stay in an activity they dislike month after month is in the child's best interest.

Unless he kept someone else out by joining, I don't see why he has to stay in for a whole year. Three months is long enough to figure out if you like something or not. Between school and homework, my kids are committed more than 40 hours a week, so I don't feel they need anything on top of that to "learn to stick with things."


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

He should be involved in finding activities that appeal to him. It's frustrating if nothing seems to interest him.

What kind of sports has he tried in the past? If they were all team sports (soccer, baseball etc.), perhaps he might like something more individual - swimming or martial arts.

What about a different kind of music experience - drum circle instead of jazz band? Japanese or African drumming?

Or maybe sound recording courses to learn how to mix tracks and produce a CD.

Drama groups are often great for teens. They're often filled with interesting kids who are pretty tolerant of differences.

Animation classes, film schools (make a movie), photography courses....

Cooking class? If he doesn't want to join a class, maybe you could get him cooking at home. Tell him he's responsible for 1 or 2 meals per week, including grocery shopping for them. Give him a couple of cookbooks for cooking basics or children/teens. There are lots in the bookstores or libraries.

Are there other activities at home that he could take on? If he doesn't want to participate in extra-curriculars, what can he do at home besides sitting in front of the t.v?


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## annethcz (Apr 1, 2004)

My 10yo has decided not to participate in any extracurriculars this year. He's played sports and been involved in clubs in the past, but he's just not interested in that anymore. He does attend school, he does well in school and is involved in a few extra (although not after-school) activities, such as school ambassadors and safety patrol.

I think that what he's doing is enough. My DS is generally happy, does plenty of socializing with friends during school and sometimes outside of school, and has independent interests (reading, drawing, writing) that don't necessarily lend themselves well to group activities.


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## zebra15 (Oct 2, 2009)

This is coming from somone who was forced to do activites as a child/teen. I hated it. I much preferred my own time - probably what your call 'doing nothing'. When in reality I loved to read, I loved my alone time to think, let my thoughts just wander, but mostly read. Video games were also just making it into most homes during my high school years and I spent alot of time with Mario etc. But I hated being forced to join high school clubs etc. They just were NOT my thing. Heck school wasnt my thing. If I had known about homeschooling and all the different alternative learning choices life would have been soooooo much easier 20-25 years ago..

My ds-9 isn't much of a activity taker either. He will do a 1-2x class, or an 'event' type thing. Sports are out for him, anything with a large group is a definate no go. He does like art type things. And I do give him huge credit (and myself) for taking a 6 wks honors class at the univeristy for gifted kids. He does want to take the next session. (but I dont count that since its really school, but on saturday)

I guess what I'm trying to say, is dont force your child to do something. By the time they are 12 they pretty much know what they want to do. By all means, you can present options to him, make him aware of classes that may appeal to him, activites at the library, etc.... or if the family volunteers he should go etc but requiring him to take a class, do band etc... nope.


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## Oubliette8 (Apr 15, 2009)

I would talk to the band director and find out some more info. If he's the only drummer in the jazz band, if he quits, the rest of the group may be unable to play. I played in jazz band in school, the drummer is a necessity for the band. You can lose a trombonist or a trumpet or two, but if you don't have a drummer, its hard to have a band. At the very least he needs to give fair warning. If there's no other drummer in the band, he should stay until an alternate can be found. At the very least, you should have a discussion about how his choice not to participate is going to effect all of his bandmates who need him there to play.


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## lorijds (Jun 6, 2002)

You've gotten great advice. I am definitely in the "check with the teacher, see if there is something going on, ask him why he doesn't want to continue, and then make him go to a logical stopping point". It's true, it isn't fair to the others in the group to lose their drummer until they can find another. He's old enough to recognize the responsibility he has to others. This is also a lesson for him and you. Maybe he's not such a group-thing kind of guy.

We also "make" our kids take at least one activity during the year, two during the summer. One of the summer activities has to be some sort of regular volunteering.

They get to pick the activity, though, and we are lucky to live in a community that has a great Arts Center, Nature Center, and Rec Center, all of which offer classes for kids and adults. Some classes one or the other has taken in the past: film making, computer video game programming, engineering for kids, fencing, ballet, theater, modern dance, soccer, yoga for kids, gothic/victorian novel reading club, wilderness survival, archery, sculpture, clay projects, and costume making.

The girls also take music classes, but that is really their own choice.

If he is unsure of an activity, see what your local rec center, library, or arts center offers for classes. Check with any local museums (science, art, history) and the local library. Some of those classes are only one weekend, or a couple of class sessions long, and so they wouldn't be the months-long or year-long commitment he might later regret and dislike.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lorijds* 
Some of those classes are only one weekend, or a couple of class sessions long, and so they wouldn't be the months-long or year-long commitment he might later regret and dislike.

I like classes like that.









I think that making a child stick something out for a year that they were unsure of trying in the first place is a really bad idea because I think it could easily make them less likely to try anything new, ever again. With my DD who isn't big on acitvities, we agree ahead of time how long is a reasonable try-out period for an acitivity -- how many weeks she is going to give something a chance before decides if she likes it or not.

And for kids who don't excell at school, activities away from school might be more appealing. Kids at school tend to get stuck with how other see them, but getting out in a different environment with different people can give them an escape from that.


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## mandib50 (Oct 26, 2004)

sometimes it can be so hard to know what the right thing to do is! i think it's important that kids pursue an extra curricular activity - something that makes them feel good and can take pride in, something that's just for them (if that makes any sense).

my kids are all in piano lessons and the boys are in tae kwon do, and the girls are in dance. when my dd was 12, she HATED piano. HATED it. i made her stick out the year, and now, 4 years later, she is playing the piano at her sister's junior 4 ballet class and wants to pursue music at a post-secondary degree. she loves it and practices for hours a day. this, from a kid who begged me to quit for a year. i'm so glad we hung in there.

at the time though, i wasn't sure if "forcing" her to take piano was the right thing. looking back, she was going through a lot of internal turmoil and i think it reflected in everything. we can look back on that experience and see how helpful it was for her to persevere and keep trying, even when she didn't want to. sometimes life is just like that, you keep plugging forward, trusting that at the end of the harder times, things will be better ...

that being said, she wanted to drop some ballet classes this year, and i was fine with that. she had other interests she was actively pursuing, and she was still being physically active in other ways. i guess it's a balance in trying to meet the best interests of your childs and your values as a parent.

good luck


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

I wonder how those parents who don't think kids should HAVE to do an extracurricular feel about jobs when they hit 16/17? Should their teen HAVE to work?


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Linda on the move* 
I'm asking because I started wondering today if rather than this really being about jazz band, he is depressed. I don't think the cure for depression is parents forcing kids to be in activities they don't want to be.

I was thinking the same thing.

From another perspective - I was depressed in high school (never diagnosed, because I _never_ talked about it. Nobody in authority knew about the razor blade tic tac toe game on my wrist, under my watch. Nobody in authority - and only a couple of friends - knew about the time I took about half the painkillers (aspirin, Tylenol and 292s) in the medicine cupboard. I'm sure everyone knew I had hormonal issues - I had a hair trigger temper and became violent very easily at certain times in my cycle - but I think the depression slipped under everyone's radar.

I'd have gone whacko if my parents had tried to make me take an extra curricular activity. I'd have ended up doing exactly what I did in school - showing up. Nothing else. If it was anything that called attention to me (eg. drama or choir), I wouldn't even have done that.

I have a son who's really into extracurricular stuff. He's a very happy, well adjusted kid, and the extra curriculars are a sign of that. But, I don't think activities are something that can be prescribed to make a kid more adjusted or make him/her do better in school or whatever (not saying you're doing that, OP). I find the idea of pushing someone to do something they don't want to do, when that something is supposedly a recreational kind of activity, really, really weird.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mtiger* 
I wonder how those parents who don't think kids should HAVE to do an extracurricular feel about jobs when they hit 16/17? Should their teen HAVE to work?

What does one have to do with the other?

In my case, as someone who finds the idea of requiring extra-curricular activities absolutely mind-boggling, I don't require ds1 to have a job. However, he gets a fixed allowance of $20.00/week. If he _wants_ more than that, he's going to have to earn it.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EFmom* 
For music, anyway, it may be a bit more than that. There is some research that shows that music does help teach kids the importance of commitment, persistence and practice, because your perfomance doesn't improve without it. There is also a strong correlation between participation in music and mathematics, and some studies have shown academic achievement improves when kids are given music education.

I'm sure that's true. But, none of that means that _requiring_ a kid to take music is going to have that effect. If I'd been required to take choir, for instance, I'd have skipped - every single time. There was absolutely nothing in this world that could have made me stand up and sing in front of other people. I did drama (had to take an "arts" course) in the first half of 8th grade. If it had been the second half, I'd have cut the entire semester, and I only took it because it seemed the least painful of the four options (art, choir, band and drama). If a kid doesn't _care_ whether their performance improves, then taking music isn't going to do much.


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mtiger* 
I wonder how those parents who don't think kids should HAVE to do an extracurricular feel about jobs when they hit 16/17? Should their teen HAVE to work?

I don't think the two are related at all. Extracurricular activities are about developing talents, socializing and having fun.

I do want my kids to do extracurricular activities. Fortunately, it's not a problem getting them interested.

I don't want my kids having jobs during the school year. Summer vacations, winter break, sure, but in my book school is their job until they are done with college.


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I'm sure that's true. But, none of that means that _requiring_ a kid to take music is going to have that effect. If I'd been required to take choir, for instance, I'd have skipped - every single time. There was absolutely nothing in this world that could have made me stand up and sing in front of other people. I did drama (had to take an "arts" course) in the first half of 8th grade. If it had been the second half, I'd have cut the entire semester, and I only took it because it seemed the least painful of the four options (art, choir, band and drama). If a kid doesn't _care_ whether their performance improves, then taking music isn't going to do much.

Oh, I agree. I have no musical ability at all. If my kid wasn't interested in music, that would be fine. But in my house they do need to find some activity, whether it's the arts, athletics, community service, etc.


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## zebra15 (Oct 2, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mtiger* 
I wonder how those parents who don't think kids should HAVE to do an extracurricular feel about jobs when they hit 16/17? Should their teen HAVE to work?

Those two things are not related. But to answer your question, my son does not have to do extra curricular activites but he will need to work. (my son is only 9 but unless money falls from the sky he will need to work)


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EFmom* 
Oh, I agree. I have no musical ability at all. If my kid wasn't interested in music, that would be fine. But in my house they do need to find some activity, whether it's the arts, athletics, community service, etc.

Why? What if they really, truly hated all those things? Why would they have to take them?

I honestly had no idea that anybody required extracurriculars, in general for their kids. (I knew about the ones who tried to force a kid to be a jock or a pageant queen or whatever, but that's a very specific phenomenon.) This thread has been an eye-opener in that respect.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I honestly had no idea that anybody required extracurriculars, in general for their kids.

I do, but it's a very soft "force." One of my DDs is quirky with mild special needs. She used to enjoy all sorts of things, until she realized that everybody else kept getting better and that no matter how hard she worked, she wasn't getting better. Then she dropped out of everything and just wanted to be by herself. She had red flags for depression all over the place. Requiring that she try new things with an open mind and find things that she enjoys doing -- just for the sake of doing them -- is part of how I see my job as a mom right now.

For a while she took riding lessons and now she would like to take some red cross classes. There's nothing controlling or icky about it, it's just that we are committed to helping her find things she enjoys because we think it's part of having a full life.

I know a lot of families who require things, and most are fairly controlling about it. It seems normal to me for kids to be required to both play an instrument and a sport. That's not really it for us -- we just believe there ought to be SOMETHING that sounds like fun to a person.


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
Why? What if they really, truly hated all those things? Why would they have to take them?

I honestly had no idea that anybody required extracurriculars, in general for their kids. (I knew about the ones who tried to force a kid to be a jock or a pageant queen or whatever, but that's a very specific phenomenon.) This thread has been an eye-opener in that respect.

Personally, I don't think it's healthy for a teenager to have no interests at all, other than sitting on a couch vegetating. Some kids need a bit of a push to try to find their own muse, and I don't think it's asking too much to have them find one activity.

I also want my kids to go to college. Let's not get into the "is college for everybody" debate, because I'm talking about the premises I'm operating on for my kids, not for your kids. Now, I'm not spending every waking hour thinking about making them have have the perfect application portfolio, nor is this my primary motivation in insisting they participate in some activity. But I do think there is a reason why colleges like to see applicants who have some interests beyond sitting around collecting dust.


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## hermionesmum (Feb 8, 2007)

The rule in our house is that the kids have to do at least two sessions of physical activity a week in addition to school sports. They get to choose what, and have to stick at it for as long as I've paid for in advance. It doesn't have to be competitive, but they have to take the exercise to be healthy.


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## zebra15 (Oct 2, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hermionesmum* 
The rule in our house is that the kids have to do at least two sessions of physical activity a week in addition to school sports. They get to choose what, and have to stick at it for as long as I've paid for in advance. It doesn't have to be competitive, but they have to take the exercise to be healthy.

I agree with another poster on here, as a child, you could have signed me up, dropped me off, etc but there is NO WAY I would have participated in anything. Your rule, house rule, or not, It just wasnt going to happen.

And btw, there is more to extra curricular activites then just sports.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EFmom* 
Personally, I don't think it's healthy for a teenager to have no interests at all, other than sitting on a couch vegetating. Some kids need a bit of a push to try to find their own muse, and I don't think it's asking too much to have them find one activity.

I also want my kids to go to college. Let's not get into the "is college for everybody" debate, because I'm talking about the premises I'm operating on for my kids, not for your kids. Now, I'm not spending every waking hour thinking about making them have have the perfect application portfolio, nor is this my primary motivation in insisting they participate in some activity. But I do think there is a reason why colleges like to see applicants who have some interests beyond sitting around collecting dust.

I fail to see how not being involved in organized extracurricular activities somehow equates to "sitting on the couch vegetating". DS1's first extracurricular was gymnastics, which he started in 9th grade. (Oh - just remembered that he _was_ in Cubs for 4 years, from age 8 to 11.) Before that, he was outside playing with friends a lot, learned to roller blade, learned to mountain bike, learned to snowboard, juggled, enjoyed dance sessions in phys ed, played guitar, expressed interest in learning to blacksmith when he's old enough (there are courses available around here, but most of them are adults only), went swimming with friends, and spent hours drawing and sculpting with modeling clay. We went on family hikes and bike rides, and when I wasn't in late pregnancy, ds1 and I would kick a soccer ball around in the yard, or play "scoops" (the ones where you catch a ball in a scoop) or toss around a badminton birdie. I don't think any of that resembles "sitting on the couch vegetating" in any way at all.

Having interests and being involved in organized extracurricular activities are two different things. Even as a depressed, drug using teenager, I loved to go for long, active walks, do puzzles of various kinds, read (voraciously - in addition to the depression, I didn't like how extracurriculars cut into my time to read), lift weights, do yoga, make candles, etc. I don't get the idea that people who don't have an official time each week when they participate in something are lacking in interests.

I also don't even begin to understand why a college would care whether or not an applicant's parents required him/her to sign up for things, or what that has to do with having interests. Having "interests" implies that the participant is _interested_ in something, not that mom and dad require it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hermionesmum* 
The rule in our house is that the kids have to do at least two sessions of physical activity a week in addition to school sports. They get to choose what, and have to stick at it for as long as I've paid for in advance. It doesn't have to be competitive, but they have to take the exercise to be healthy.

In addition to school sports? Does that mean they have to take sports, as well? Until another mom started giving them rides, ds1 walked to school (uphill) every day and walked back home. That's about a mile or so each way, and we felt that was a sufficient baseline. But, there's a provincial graduation requirement that each student logs 3.5 hours per week of physical activity, anyway, so putting our own rule in place would be somewhat redundant.

This has been interesting. I can't even even begin to relate to it, but it does open my eyes to a whole new way of thinking.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EFmom* 
Oh, I agree. I have no musical ability at all. If my kid wasn't interested in music, that would be fine.

Oh - and I never actually replied to this part. I love music. I love to sing. I actually _did_ join a choir three years ago (am taking a year off, because of the new baby), and I really enjoy it. But, even at 41, with far less self-consciousness, and a more manageable social phobia, it's been _excruciating_ to get myself to a point where I can have fun with it. The whole first year was really stressful - fun at times, but also really stressful. It's not the music...it's the social side of it. (It is a little scary singing where others can hear me, because singing, to me, is very emotional and private - it's almost like having sex in public or something.) I've always loved singing, and spent hours and hours singing as a teen - in my own room, in my own space, with nobody around.


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## Oriole (May 4, 2007)

I am with the camp that says it's important to do something with the time outside of school that doesn't mean TV or Internet.

IF my kid spends hours and hours drawing, OR playing guitar, OR rollerblading, OR <insert an activity>, then I wouldn't require an extra curricular activity. At the same time, chances are, if a hobby is of a true interest, then the kid will take a chance to advance their skill through classes. If 99% of the free time is spent on TV and computer, I am all for requiring something.

BTW, my mom made me go to music school (it was a combined set of classes in chorus, music theory, and piano AFTER regular school). I had to finish 8 years of it. I was fighting it for the last 3 years with greater and greater force. BUT! She gets to tell me "I told you so", because I love the fact that: #1. I stuck with something, #2. learned everything that I did in those years. She was absolutely right when she said "you'll thank me for it".









It's very tough for me to speak for DSD, since I think these kinds of things are important to develop when a child is young, and teenage years are kind of tough to all of a sudden start extra curricular requirement. There is too much going on to all of a sudden "require a hobby" if you will, especially if a kid never had to pick and stick with an activity. If she was my daughter, I'd make it a point to encourage a variety of hobbies from early on. Right now, between the school and her job she has zero time for scheduled activities, BUT the other day she did say she regrets knowing that all kids around her were in school clubs, sports, etc. and she never joined.

Alas, I'm just a stepparent, and don't get to make those kind of final decisions.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
Having interests and being involved in organized extracurricular activities are two different things.

Agreed.

Quote:

I also don't even begin to understand why a college would care whether or not an applicant's parents required him/her to sign up for things, or what that has to do with having interests.
Colleges do care if kids have been in organized activities, done community service, etc. There is a coorelation between participation in activities and school success. I'm in the camp that doubts that one is causes the other, but coorelation does exists. I can see why someone who is trying to figure out if a student is going to be successful in a new adventure would look at their ability to function in lots of different settings.

Quote:

But, there's a provincial graduation requirement that each student logs 3.5 hours per week of physical activity, anyway, so putting our own rule in place would be somewhat redundant.
same here. The school my kids' attend requires every student have PE every day. It's a 45 min period. Some times it's a fun physical activity, like capture the flag, and sometimes they do units on play a particular sport, like basketball. My kids usually enjoy it.

Requiring more would be redundant.

My DD who is a cheerleader (and has 2 hour practices or games 4 nights a week) sleeps REALLY well.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

If he just watches t.v. all the time I'd cancel the cable. We did. I'm fine with DVD's but we don't have cable for that reason. It becomes constant. Turn off the t.v., and he will find something to 'do'.

BUT, having said that....

I think 5 days of school can be exhausting in and of itself, and if my son wanted to do nothing but rest, read, pursue quiet hobbies, and/or putter around the house and garden after school each week, I'd say he was a wise kid! I am most definitely of the belief that kids should find their own passion, in their own time.


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## bronxmom (Jan 22, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heartmama* 
If he just watches t.v. all the time I'd cancel the cable. We did. I'm fine with DVD's but we don't have cable for that reason. It becomes constant. Turn off the t.v., and he will find something to 'do'.

BUT, having said that....

I think 5 days of school can be exhausting in and of itself, and if my son wanted to do nothing but rest, read, pursue quiet hobbies, and/or putter around the house and garden after school each week, I'd say he was a wise kid! I am most definitely of the belief that kids should find their own passion, in their own time.









I totally agree. My daughter will often give me lengthy treatises on why school is like going to work. Some of her reasons: it's 7 hours and you have to get up early; you have to sit still and raise your hand if you want to speak; it can be hard; it can be boring; you have to do it whether you like it or not; there's at least another hour of homework when you get home. I think she's got a point. And this will only increase when she hits middle school (next year) and homework is 2-3 hours/night and much harder. For the record, my daughter loves school and does very well in it; but she still finds it work and will very zealously guard her "down time" outside of it. I don't think this makes her a laze about dead beat. She reads a lot, works on her stories, talks to us, plays with her baby brother and generally re-charges.

I also find the idea of requiring activities rather arbitrary. Guiding kids to them, absolutely. But this idea that there's something wrong if you don't do one, or you'll grow up into someone with no work ethic, just seems strange.

Also, you meet people for whom the high point of their social interests and activities was high school - they were the cheerleader or did all the sports or whatever. Then they get married, have kids and have a routine. Others maybe didn't do much in high school but as adults purse their interests actively and more independently/willingly. No one's mentioned this, but the world of teenage extracurriculars can kind of suck; there's the popularity contesting, the embarrassment, the ranking of activities on a cool kid scale; etc. I think it's a reasonable survival mechanism that there will be kids who avoid that whole scenario but still manage to find things the love as adults.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Linda on the move* 
Colleges do care if kids have been in organized activities, done community service, etc. There is a coorelation between participation in activities and school success. I'm in the camp that doubts that one is causes the other, but coorelation does exists. I can see why someone who is trying to figure out if a student is going to be successful in a new adventure would look at their ability to function in lots of different settings.

Yeah - I've always felt this was a correlation issue, not a causation issue.

Quote:

same here. The school my kids' attend requires every student have PE every day. It's a 45 min period. Some times it's a fun physical activity, like capture the flag, and sometimes they do units on play a particular sport, like basketball. My kids usually enjoy it.

Requiring more would be redundant.
DS1 doesn't do PE, anymore. It's required through 11th grade. Personally, _I_ would have done a _lot_ better with a requirement for a log, and no requirement for PE. I hear all the time about how great PE is for people, and how kids who take PE have better self-esteem, more self-confidence, etc. etc. But, I have to wonder if those studies take into account the kid who's always picked last for the team, is uncoordinated, doesn't like the sports in the first place or suffers from an invisible disability.

In my own case, I _sucked_ at anything involving a ball. I didn't twig until about 3 years after grad that it was at least partly because I don't have any depth perception. I never thought about it, because I adapted to that, with respect to most of life, at a very early age...but it definitely had a pronounced negative impact on my ability to hit or catch a ball, yk?)The PE requirement pretty much killed my interest in anything sports-related, and definitely made school, especially high school, even more hellish than it already was. I realize there are only so many kids with issues like the lack of depth perception, and there are even fewer who combine that with my utter anti-talent in anything involving coordination...but we're out there.

Quote:

My DD who is a cheerleader (and has 2 hour practices or games 4 nights a week) sleeps REALLY well.








Yeah. DS1 crashes really hard after gymastics, too. But, he's always been a really active kid.


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## QueeTheBean (Aug 6, 2002)

JJMama:

Wow--switch "trombone" for "drums" and we have the exact same child. I am really floundering, too. The baby years were SO much easier than this.

My situation is not helped by the fact that I was involved in tons of things as a kid. My DS is so different from me--not that it is a bad thing, but it makes it more challenging to relate to each other. It was so much simpler when I could just hold him and nurse him.


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## Cavy (Aug 21, 2009)

My DS10yo is similar to JJMama's, altho DS is good at school at least.
We tried loads of extracurr activities, he usually loses interest after 2 or 3 sessions (& becomes stubbornly & angrily resistant to the idea of ever going again). I don't have the energy to "make" him do EC activities (he does none at the moment).

My big worry is teenage peer pressure -- I'm convinced that teens with their own strong interests are much better at resisting the temptations to do something stupid.


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## kim701 (Nov 13, 2010)

I agree. I think it is important that they have some extracurricular activity especially when they get in the high school years. But, it is so hard, I have a 10 year old, she has been in swimming for 2 years and is pretty good. She thought maybe she wanted to try something else this year. It seems kids start things pretty young. She was discouraged because the other kids were so much more advanced. I think she would rather be in nothing. She just still wants to be a kid and play. But, I am afraid if I let her do that she is not going to want to join something later because the others will have already been in it and they are better and she will be discouraged and not want to try. I don't know what the answer is. Any advice? I would appreciate it.


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## happysmileylady (Feb 6, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kim701*
> 
> I agree. I think it is important that they have some extracurricular activity especially when they get in the high school years. But, it is so hard, I have a 10 year old, she has been in swimming for 2 years and is pretty good. She thought maybe she wanted to try something else this year. It seems kids start things pretty young. She was discouraged because the other kids were so much more advanced. I think she would rather be in nothing. She just still wants to be a kid and play. But, I am afraid if I let her do that she is not going to want to join something later because the others will have already been in it and they are better and she will be discouraged and not want to try. I don't know what the answer is. Any advice? I would appreciate it.


At 10, I would be ok with "just playing." I am however not ok with "just playing" if the only reason for that is because other kids are better than her. I want my child to learn to deal with the fact of life that other people will be better than her.

I am one that requires my high schooler to be involved in SOMETHING extracurricular wise. I have a number of reasons for this:

1) I believe that a busy kid gets into less trouble. This belief is based on the fact that I was not a busy kid and got pregnant in high school. AND, I have no qualms about telling my kid exactly that. I told her this summer that she will do SOME activity because I want her busy because that is more likely to keep her out of trouble. Of course it's not a sure thing, but then nothing in life is. I do know that had my school had a pool, I would not have gotten pg in high school, because swimming was the only sport I was interested in.

2) college scholarships are easier to come by when you are in extra curriculars because there are scholarships available for individual activities. I don't believe in paying for my children's college, so they need all the scholarship options they can get. Again, I am aware that participating in an activity don't make a scholarship a sure thing, but not participating makes it a sure thing that she WON'T get that particular scholarship.

3) Being on a team/in that group setting is good for my kid. She has some social anxieties and I believe that the best way for her to learn to deal with those is to be in a setting that requries her to deal with them. Plus it provides her with relationships to lean on when she "needs friends" and not mom, relationships that as a bit of a loner, she wouldn't otherwise have. It helps to give her some confidence she lacks.

4) I believe that being involved with organized activities teaches responsibility and commitment, in a way that family cannot. I also believe that it teaches a lot of other things about the way of the world, such as the fact that others will be better like I mentioned above, as well as how to work on a team when you don't like everyone on that team, how to deal with the dissappontment of a loss/failure as well as the joy of a win/sucess, time management skills, leader/follower skills etc etc etc.

However, as I said, at 10, I am not so worried about these things. I would at that age, work with her to deal with the "others are better than me" issue, but that may or many not mean doing a different extra curricular.


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

In general, school is enough for many kids. Some kids may want more - and that is fine if they can handle it - but I sure would not require it. I think summer is a different ball game - and making kids well aware of extra-curriculr options in the summer is a good thing. I probably wouldn't insist - but I would keep rolling out the options until they found something







.

As per the OP - the lack of desire to do anything but school (which may be normal in many people) coupled with the poor grades at school may be a sign something else is going on. I focus on figuring out why he is doing poorly at school. I do not think insisting he takes more things he does not want to take is going to help matters. I vote for keep him in drums as long as he wants it, and let him drop Jazz at a reasonable juncture (if there is a show schedueled, he probably needs to stick it out till after that)

If you really are concerned with him sitting on the couch, how about trying to engage him in solitary or family activities - hikes, swimming, bowling, reading, films, etc. Not everyone wants structured group activities. I would make this low key and try on weekends - sitting on the couch on a school night is a fine activity. We all need down time.

edited: I do think extra-curriculurs look good on college applications. I did a few, even though I was not drawn towards them, because I knew it looked good. This is borderline moot for the OP though - her son is 12 and not doing well in school. I would sort out the school issue first, and I would absolutely let him know colleges might want to see extra-c or volunteer work, etc. There is not a huge time crunch though - he is 12 - and has years to pad his resume/application. He may very well want extra-c type stuff as he ages and moves out of the preteen/early teen years.


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## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

I really don't have any problems with my preteen being guided toward extra-curriculars at his point. Frankly, busy is good for her. She has volunteer activities and a sports commitment, as well as an arts commitment. T he physical activity has become so important now that she's into some of the hormonal stuff. An off day becomes very bright after some all out physical exertion. Time management skills have been sharpened as well. We sill have downtime here, but at this age, too much downtime isn't very helpful, IME.

I do see some of her friends with lots of downtime, and I don't think they are doing very well with it. Lots of time on line, lots of texting....fine for a potion of the day, but there is a lot of time between when school gets out and bedtime.


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

I was ready to post a reply to the OP about whether her DS enjoyed the band once he was there and if the problem was transtions, when I noticed that the thread is a year old.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kim701*
> 
> I agree. I think it is important that they have some extracurricular activity especially when they get in the high school years. But, it is so hard, I have a 10 year old, she has been in swimming for 2 years and is pretty good. She thought maybe she wanted to try something else this year. It seems kids start things pretty young. She was discouraged because the other kids were so much more advanced. I think she would rather be in nothing. She just still wants to be a kid and play. But, I am afraid if I let her do that she is not going to want to join something later because the others will have already been in it and they are better and she will be discouraged and not want to try. I don't know what the answer is. Any advice? I would appreciate it.


I'd explore what kind of activities appeal to her. Instead of swimming, what about diving or water polo?

Maybe she'd like to try something in the arts or music for a change - dance, watercolours, choir or whatever she'd like to explore.

OTOH, maybe an entirely different sporting activity will rejuvenate her interests - martial arts or perhaps a team sports like basketball or softball. There are lots of recreation-level activities for kids who just want to play and aren't interested in competing. I'd look into community sports organizations, house leagues or lessons for beginners. They are much less intimidating than trying to join a competitive team, and the other kids are likely to be at the same level (fairly new) or more tolerant of beginners.

Oh, and OP - it would be great to hear an update, if you're inclined!


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## whatsnextmom (Apr 2, 2010)

I'm of the mind that kids should be doing "something" outside of school largely because I feel it's invaluable (especially in middle school) to have interest based social connections outside of school. It doesn't have to be much... just something. That said, your DS is doing something right? Taking drum lessons? If he doesn't like the Jazz Band, he doesn't need to continue (usually, I'd have the kids see out the commitment but in this case, there probably isn't a clear session end right?) I would encourage some sort of club or something though... again, social connection outside of school.

You can always say "no" to TV and video games. Could be without those options, going out an doing something will be more attractive.


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *karne*
> 
> T he physical activity has become so important now that she's into some of the hormonal stuff. We sill have downtime here, but at this age, too much downtime isn't very helpful, IME.
> 
> ...


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## whatsnextmom (Apr 2, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtiger*
> 
> I wonder how those parents who don't think kids should HAVE to do an extracurricular feel about jobs when they hit 16/17? Should their teen HAVE to work?


The teens we know actually want to work and the smart ones use their extracurriculars activities as a way of getting work they enjoy doing. My DD is 13 and already lined up work for next summer as a classroom aide at two youth theatre programs (they have to be 14 which she will turn before summer.) It's something she's been thinking of. She's spent this year taking all the required courses to qualify her. Many of her buddies do it so it's still fun and social. She has flexibility as to what classes and daycamps she works so that she still has lots of time off. She knows all the teachers. It's a subject she loves and it's more fun for her than flipping burgers. Will my kids HAVE to work at 16/17? No, but I suspect they will want too as they really enjoy getting paychecks and having money savings. I don't particularly want them working during the school year unless it's in this capacity where they may only work a few hours a week instead of like 20 at a fast food restaurant.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

It's funny to see this thread pop back up again, because I'm feeling exactly the opposite. I won't make ds1 cut out any of his activities, but I wish he'd let one or two go. He currently has:

Monday: School, then choir, then acting lessons - home for dinner - then gymnastics practice. He has maybe an hour to squeeze in some homework.

Tuesday: School, then about 2.5 hours for homework and something to eat, then he usually works until 10:30 or 11:00 or so.

Wednesday: School, sometimes choir rehearsal, then home to catch up on homework/scene work (from acting), then gymnastics practice.

Thursday: School. Home to do his major chores (vaccuming or bathrooms). He usually doesn't have anything else on Thursdays, but sometimes has work.

Friday: School, then about 2.5 hours off, then work until late evening.

Saturday: Gymastics practice in the morning, then a 7 hours shift at work.

Sunday: Another 7-8 hour shift at work. Once the season gets rolling, he'll also have gymnastics practices, when he can fit them into his work schedule.

He's also got occasional weekend rehearsals for a drama project he's involved with (this is through his school drama class, not his private lessons). He's involved with the Interac (service) club, and has had two "field trips" during school hours in the last few weeks (one to attend an inspirational conference thing, and one to be the reindeer mascot for "Operation Red Nose" - safe ride home program for people who drink too much over the holidays). Choir involves after hours concerts. He's going to be a counselor at Outdoor School at least one week this year. The weekday gymnastics practices aren't required, but he's the team captain and he wants to compete a level higher than last year, which will require some extra effort.

He doesn't know he needs downtime...but he needs downtime. However, he does much better on this schedule than I would have. I'd have been having crying fits every day at this pace.


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## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

I don't have quoting figured out either! But, I don't mean to suggest that my kid doesn't have downtime. But she is passionate about her sport and it requires a commitment-she's working toward a goal, and I fully support that. She is also very, very, passionate about community service, which is a strong value within our family. She has gained skills and respect through this, and it's opened a few doors for her. In the meantime she's managed to gain some experience with managing her time, which has carried over to school. IDK-hard to see the downside here. It's just not in me to feel ok about my kids coming home from a day inside at school and sitting in front of facebook or texting for a few hours each day. I don't have an unschooling mentality about this. We are an active, service oriented family. The kids my dd aspires to be like share her sense of what's important in life-most of them are hard workers and are doing things. We strive for balance in terms of activity and downtime,


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Just to clarify - I wasn't replying to you specifically. I just thought it was funny to see this thread pop back up after so long, when I'm concerned about the exact opposite issue as the OP.


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## happysmileylady (Feb 6, 2009)

Quote:


> I think a double standard applies to kids - we do not expect people to get home from work, do an hour or so of work at home and then run off to 4 extra-curriculur activities a week. At least I don't.


 I disagree. First because for the most part, it's us parents who are running the kids all over to all these activities. But aside from that, parents come home from work, they get dinner ready, they go to the grocery store, they work out at the gym, they have various assorted appointments for doctors or kids or vets or whatever, they go to school after work, they do classes like gymboree with their kids, etc etc. There are LOTS of parents who are just as scheduled as lots of kids, and lots of those parents bring their work home with them too.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> It's funny to see this thread pop back up again, because I'm feeling exactly the opposite. I won't make ds1 cut out any of his activities, but I wish he'd let one or two go. He currently has:
> 
> ...


Choir, acting, gymnastics AND work? Wow, that is kinda a lot. I require that my dd does SOMETHING, but I would never dream of requiring that many. I do agree that kids need SOME downtime, just like adults do.

Quote:


> And if she spends a couple of hours online (she tries!) or testing (never) so what???


 As long as a couple of hours doesn't turn into oodles of hours or oodles and oodles of hours then that's fine. But, I don't think I would blow off spending a couple of hours online because I think there IS a risk. From being subject to online bullying, to being an online bully, to giving out too much info to whatever. I don't restrict my teen's hours online, with the stuff she does do (sports, work etc) that regulates it for me (and another reason I like her participating in extra curriculars) but I think saying "so what" kinda ignores the risks of the internet to teens.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Choir, acting, gymnastics AND work? Wow, that is kinda a lot. I require that my dd does SOMETHING, but I would never dream of requiring that many. I do agree that kids need SOME downtime, just like adults do.


Yeah. He just got home from work, ate dinner, and collapsed on the couch. He still has homework to do, and had been planning to go collect pledges (he's doing a vow of silence on Thursday, to raise awareness - and money - for child poverty), but he may not make it out to do that now. He also spent about 4-5 hours this weekend helping some of his classmates with their project for Civ (Civilizations - they're doing a video, and needed an ancient Roman). I definitely think he tends to overdo it, but acting is what he wants to do for a living, and gymnastics is his passion. So...I just keep reminding him that sleep is really, really, really, really important, and hope it takes.


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

Karne - if it works for your child, great!

Happysmiley....Many parents are busy after work - but this is work they take on themselves for the most part, not work someone is insisting they do.

As per the internet, I am not ignoring risks. The computer is a central area, she is not into social networking, etc, etc. I am simply honouring her chosen downtime activity.

There are some underlying messages to this thread that I question:

1. Teens must be kept busy or they will get into trouble.

This is not true in my experience. I was an adolescent who probably could have used more activities to thrive, but despite this I did not get into trouble. I think the roots of trouble are far deeper than simply having free time.

2. Being a homebody is not OK. This is simply untrue in my world. Being a homebody works for some people, and being on the go works for others. Moderation works for many. Figuring out what works for your child and supporting that to the best of your ability is key.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kathymuggle*
> There are some underlying messages to this thread that I question:
> 
> 1. Teens must be kept busy or they will get into trouble.
> ...


1. I have to agree. I got into trouble, but it wasn't because I had free time. There were a lot of factors involved, but they had to do with my manipulative and toxic grandmother, alcoholic father (and all the family tensions that come with that), major PMS issues, and social/emotional challenges. My free time wasn't an issue.

2. I also agree. Some people really are homebodies, and it's what we're comfortable with. I've found that people can be much more accepting of that in adults than in teens, though. (Actually, that was one of my social challenges...I was "weird", because I didn't want to go out with people all the time. Well, I was weird for a lot of reasons, but that was one of them.)


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## Kuba'sMama (Oct 8, 2004)

I find this thread very interesting, as we are currently going through this with our oldest ds (7). He keeps saying that he wants to get rid of all his extracurriculars and have "relaxment". I have a problem with this due to my own experiences as a child and teen.

I was very much like my ds when I was a child. Shy, a bit unconfident. My parents did not push me into anything at all. As a direct result (I know this, so don't challenge it please), I became more and more unconfident. I felt my world was very small- school/home, school/home, school/home. I felt lonely and depressed. It seemed that everyone had something they were good at (sports, music, art). In my extreme preteen vision, I felt I was worthless, talentless. I had trouble making friends. I didn't reach my potential in high school. I had nothing to fill in under "extra curriculars" for my post-secondary education. I felt it was futile to apply, so I didn't (for two years anyway). I know I would've liked Scouts, piano, swimming. I also know that I would've protested, saying "I can't do it, I'm no good". I wished my parents saw that it's the low-self esteem talking and push me anyway. They never did.

Even though I got over most of my issues now at 30, I still feel inferior in some ways. I don't know how to do many things that other people my age do; I can't swim, skate, play any instruments, I never did gymnastics or ballet, i never played on any sports team, I wasn't in any school club. Believe it or not, it still comes up (like when our school hosts an annual skate party and I can't take my kids). So no, tooth and nail I will fight for my son to have a bigger world than I did. Not to be a super athlete or a concert pianist. Just so he never feels "I'm worthless, all I do is sit around my room and stare at my walls." Just so he sees other kids than the ones he sees every day at school. Really, just so he knows there is a "real world" outside of school and home. And yes, he WILL get a job when he is 16. I did and it just about saved my life. (but that's a long story







).


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I can see where you're coming from, but your ds is already in extracurrculars, and he's telling you he wants a break from it. And, while that may have been how things played out for you, there's no guarantee it will be the same for your son. I was also shy and lacking in self-confidence. I did Guides (we don't have Girl Scouts in Canada - we have Girl Guides). I did swimming lessons. I did trampoline. I took disco lessons (yeah - I'm old). I studied accordion for two years. And, I'm just barely starting to get over my lack of self-confidence at 42. Being involved in extracurriculars (which my parents actually didn't push, but my sister was gung ho to do them, and I joined her) didn't help at all. The social side of extracurriculars was even worse than the social side of school.

Being pushed to do extracurriculars may have been good for you, but it doesn't necessarily follow that it would be good for your son. Even people who share traits (eg. shyness, and lack of self-confidence) aren't necessarily going to handle things the same way.


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## mamabeca (Oct 3, 2004)

we've had some issues with this topic too. my dd is 12.5. She is just more than 1/2 way to black belt in aikido, which she's been taking for 3.5 yrs. She's been told she HAS to make black belt, by me, or take it till she's 18. For me there are several issues at stake, which may not be true for every kid, but they are true for her. 1. perseverance. she needs to take it because this doesn't come naturally to her. she gives up on a lot of stuff, and this is something that she's good at, but would give up on because it's 'boring'. 2. personal safety. aikido is ONLY self defense, and she's a cute, kinda silly girl who is easily led and doesn't say no. nuff said. 3. she meets other kids through this course that are in the community. she goes to a Montessori school about 20 mi away, so I think it's important for her to connect into the community. 4. It's not a lot of time, but she gets a lot out of it!

Over the years, we've tried, and she's dropped: drama, art, guitar, piano, newspaper, and after this year, Hebrew/religion. In all honesty, some of these I just stopped paying for because she never practiced. No practice, no pay is the policy. Aikido she doesn't really need to practice (though she would move along faster if she chose to practice).

She's continued to participate in Spring softball (though she's hesitating this year, and I'm not pushing), girl scouts, and this year she picked up 2 after school clubs Latin (my push, but she likes it!) and Water Club which is an amazing project that links her school with a school in Tanzania to produce kinetic playground equipment to pump water for the school, her choice.

She's doing ok in school (B's and C's), and is finally getting into reading, though she's been a reluctant reader for years.

She's been asking for 1.5 yrs to quit aikido and I keep saying no. I feel like with THIS kid, I need to push her a little so that she gets some accomplishments under her belt. Someone previously posted about wishing her parents had pushed her harder, and I do think there are SOME kids that you need to do this. Finding the right activity to push them in is hard! We needed to find something somewhat social that didn't require too much thinking, and would help her burn off some energy. Aikido seemed (and still feels) like the right fit. Her censei is amazing, a really sweet guy who is willing to talk about the kids w/parents, and help with areas he can help with. For example, she was dealing with some bullying issues at school last year, and he was able to help her through that a little.

I must say that the list of things for kids to do today is outrageous. From tech to tennis, there has GOT to be something for every kid out there, even if what they do is get together and crab about parents! Light to all, andy


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## Juuulie (Apr 15, 2009)

Funny, I went through 180 degrees reading this thread. On the one hand I am very much in favor of giving kids down time and leaving them to their own devices. My three have a LOT of time during the week when they have no structured activities, and no screen time allowed. Benign neglect is pretty much my parenting motto.

On the other hand, all three play musical instruments and we spend a ridiculous amount of time and money on private lessons, group lessons, orchestra, summer programs, etc. This isn't even optional for them. They practice every day just like they brush their teeth every day. In fact practicing actually takes precedence over schoolwork. That's how important I think it is. I probably sound like a horrendous stage mom, but the fact is, music does build character. It teaches perseverance, self-discipline, teamwork, humility, leadership skills, patience... oh and incidentally you learn to play an instrument.

So... I guess it depends on the activity in question. I don't see a lot of value in pushing kids to participate in an activity just for the sake of "keeping them busy." But if it's something you find personally meaningful, something that you yourself are prepared to invest time and money in, something that has lifelong benefits, then yes I think it is not wrong to require your kids to do it.


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## bronxmom (Jan 22, 2008)

I think teens should be in a position to decide their activities. I also think that there is a lot of personal development and enrichment that is not about "activities". - e.g., my daughter is a writer and has written dozens of long stories. She has no interest - at this point in her life - in writers' camp. But it's still an activity - she just does it at home on her own time. I also agree with the idea that kids deserve downtime and actually work harder/longer hours in some instances than adults. I'm also not sure where people get the time.

My daughter (11 - 6th grade) gets up at 6:15am, leaves the house at 7:45am to be at school at 8. She's at school for almost 8 hours (8am - 3:40pm) then commutes over an hour home to get home by 5. She basically does homework from the time she gets home til she has to get ready for bed at 9. In there she intersperses telling me about her day, talking to me and playing with her brother, but basically it's homework. I would kill for her to have some downtime. I can't even imagine how she'd fit in extracurriculars. School is her life. Luckily she loves it and that's the pay off. But she's essentially working the equivalent of a 50+ hour/week job. In general, I think all the emphasis on activities for kids is part of an American mindset that overvalues "productivity" and sees leisure as wasteful. I think we could all use some more leisure.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juuulie*
> 
> Funny, I went through 180 degrees reading this thread. On the one hand I am very much in favor of giving kids down time and leaving them to their own devices. My three have a LOT of time during the week when they have no structured activities, and no screen time allowed. Benign neglect is pretty much my parenting motto.
> 
> ...


All this also depends on how your children respond to it. I know people (mostly older) who were required to learn to play an instrument when they were younger, and they still love that instrument. I know others who hate it and won't play. I currently know a guy whose entire relationship with his mother has been badly damaged by her insistence on him learning to play, because he didnt' like it, didn't feel he had any talent for it, and felt like a failure, because it was that important to her. (He's 40 and I really don't see them every patching it up.)

And, fwiw, I started to learn to play an instrument and quit, because I basically refused to give up that much reading time to practice. My sister persisted for years and learned her instrument better than mine. There is nobody who knows us who would claim that she has more perserverance, self-discipline, patience, etc. than I do. (I could certainly be more humble, but she's even worse than me on that one!) I don't believe that people learn perserverance and self-discipline by being required to do something that someone else wants them to do. I also don't believe music has a monopoly on those things.

If this works for you and your kids, that's great. But, there's not a lot of value in pushing kids to participate in an activity that you "find personally meaningful, something that you yourself are prepared to invest time and money in, something that has lifelong benefits", if the kids simply get nothing from it. It sounds as though your kids do, so it works. But, that's not always going to happen.


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## Juuulie (Apr 15, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> But, there's not a lot of value in pushing kids to participate in an activity that you "find personally meaningful, something that you yourself are prepared to invest time and money in, something that has lifelong benefits", if the kids simply get nothing from it. It sounds as though your kids do, so it works. But, that's not always going to happen.


Of course it's not always going to happen. Every family is different, and every kid is different. However, I'd bet that most kids will not "simply get nothing" out of participation in an activity that the parent truly finds personally meaningful, etc. How else do we pass along our values? I firmly believe that my kids are doing well with their music not because they have some God-given special talent, but because they have been exposed to music since the day they were born, because it's something they get to do with mama, because they take pride in their accomplishments, and because music is beautiful. Yes, I require them to practice every day, but I also look forward to their practice hour every day (truly I do). And they pick up on that. No, they don't always want to practice, but even my 7yo sees the connection between the hard work and the rewards it brings.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

*I think it should be entirely up to him. Let him know that you're more than willing to help him get into a sport or class if that's what he wants, but then just let it be. IMO, we take part in those activities because we enjoy them, have an interest in them, or get something out of them. If that isn't happening, why would he care?*

* Un*


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## mamabeca (Oct 3, 2004)

Un - that works awesome for kids who get jazzed about something, but there ARE kids who would seriously do NOTHING, or just play video games and watch TV. Not read. Not play outside, swim, not even learn a card trick. I know it's hard to think that pushing someone else into something could ever be good for them, but sometimes it is. I think we need to respect that parents make the choices they do w/the best interests of their kids at heart. Those who don't should self-condemn and self-correct, of course, and there are those who need to learn that lesson (possibly me!), but in general one philosophy is unlikely to solve everyone's needs/problems. Respectfully submitted.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Oh I totally agree that there kids who aren't into extra curricular things or activities. My son was such a child for the most part. He pretty much played video games (some very involved) and watched a lot of TV. He does read a lot, though most of the time it's online when he's downloaded an e book. I think that's okay.

I apologize if my first post came across as condescending or disrespectful. I certainly wasn't trying to say that approach is the only right one. I was just giving my thoughts on the original question. I just don't believe that kids should be made to participate in an activity they don't want. 

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamabeca*
> 
> Un - that works awesome for kids who get jazzed about something, but there ARE kids who would seriously do NOTHING, or just play video games and watch TV. Not read. Not play outside, swim, not even learn a card trick. I know it's hard to think that pushing someone else into something could ever be good for them, but sometimes it is. I think we need to respect that parents make the choices they do w/the best interests of their kids at heart. Those who don't should self-condemn and self-correct, of course, and there are those who need to learn that lesson (possibly me!), but in general one philosophy is unlikely to solve everyone's needs/problems. Respectfully submitted.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa*
> 
> *I think it should be entirely up to him. Let him know that you're more than willing to help him get into a sport or class if that's what he wants, but then just let it be. IMO, we take part in those activities because we enjoy them, have an interest in them, or get something out of them. If that isn't happening, why would he care?*
> 
> * Un*


Hey - haven't seen you around for a while. How're things going?


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juuulie*
> 
> Funny, I went through 180 degrees reading this thread. On the one hand I am very much in favor of giving kids down time and leaving them to their own devices. My three have a LOT of time during the week when they have no structured activities, and no screen time allowed. Benign neglect is pretty much my parenting motto.
> 
> ...


As great as music is, I don't personally feel it should usurp schoolwork, unless a child is an absolute prodigy (and even then, education is important.).

My boy took piano lessons early on, then decided to drop them as he wasn't that into it. It was only when he got into HS, that his interest in music came back - with a passion. In the meantime, he tried a lot of different things - cross country & football, Scouts, drama, etc. Today? He's a Music Comp major at a Conservatory.

And - as a pp indicated, a lot of people who are forced to take music lessons as kids end up turning away from it later in life. I know I did. I played piano for 13 years. I have a Steinway here at home, and a Yamaha Clavinova at my parents. I don't touch either. I keep the Steinway tuned for my son, but I don't play it.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bronxmom*
> 
> My daughter (11 - 6th grade) gets up at 6:15am, leaves the house at 7:45am to be at school at 8. She's at school for almost 8 hours (8am - 3:40pm) then commutes over an hour home to get home by 5.


This must be a typo - how is it she gets TO school in <15 minutes, but needs an hour to get home?

Extracurricular activities do more than teach kids skills or keep them busy... they also teach kids how to interact with others. Social skills are very important in life, and they are more easily developed when kids are young. Even if they're not particularly social/sociable, it's important to learn how to interact with others appropriately.


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## happysmileylady (Feb 6, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kathymuggle*
> 
> Karne - if it works for your child, great!
> 
> ...


I regards to parents being busy being work they have taken on themselves...yes and no. I don't really think the choices are all that different than the kids choices. Some parents have jobs that require a lot of work from home, just like some kids have parents that require a lot of extracurriculars. Really, I often wonder they are one in the same.

Anyway to your point #1. I don't think teens MUST be kept busy to stay our of trouble. I know that not all teens who don't have extra curriculars get into trouble and I do know that not all teens in extra curriculars stay out of trouble. But I know that my 15 year old is the direct result of having nothing better to do that have sex. And logically, it only makes sense that the less free time a teen has, the LESS LIKELY it is that the teen will get into trouble, just because they simply don't have the time.


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## amnesiac (Dec 28, 2001)

We have never required our kids to participate in any extracurricular activities. The only requirement we have is that they spend some time outside each day, weather permitting. We also don't limit screen time or otherwise require/restrict their downtime activities. Dd started going to dance once a week this school year because she wanted to try it out but getting there has sometimes been a challenge since the job I just left did require me to work late seasonally & dh works over an hour from home. One of my boys enjoys playing music & we have instruments & recording equipment at home but he does not take lessons and we don't require that he practice. The other ds is into computer stuff so he obviously spends more screen time than the other kids - I don't limit him because I think that's a great skill to have and enjoy - and he also mountain bikes with dh. I guess I just really want them to have the freedom to explore themselves & the world on their own so that they learn to value their own interests & not those of others or those that they think others want them to value.


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *happysmileylady*
> 
> I regards to parents being busy being work they have taken on themselves...yes and no. I don't really think the choices are all that different than the kids choices. Some parents have jobs that require a lot of work from home, just like some kids have parents that require a lot of extracurriculars. Really, I often wonder they are one in the same.
> 
> Anyway to your point #1. I don't think teens MUST be kept busy to stay our of trouble. I know that not all teens who don't have extra curriculars get into trouble and I do know that not all teens in extra curriculars stay out of trouble. But I know that my 15 year old is the direct result of having nothing better to do that have sex. And logically, it only makes sense that the less free time a teen has, the LESS LIKELY it is that the teen will get into trouble, just because they simply don't have the time.


Hope I do not sound argumentative - this is a really interesting thread with lots to chew on!

In almost all work place situations - the employee is expected to perform certain activities - that is why they are there and being paid. There are consequences for not doing the activities. If you boss is not reasonable, you can often find a new job. It is a control thing - the employer controls the environment at work, but the employee chooses whether or not to be there and to work for them.

Parenting is different. I do not see myself as the controller of actitivites for my children - particulalry for my teen. When they are babies and toddlers the nvironement is controlled, somewhat heavily, and as they approach adulthood, they get to make more and more choices. Including whether to participate in extra-curricular activites. I do this because I think it is fair and reasonable for teens to experiment with choices before they launch themselves into adulthood.

Of course, if your paradigm is that parents do control the environment up until 18, then that is different. In some ways it is worse - because kids do not get to choose their families (unlike in employment situations) and in some ways it is better - one hopes most parents set their expectations out of love and a desire to see their kid thrive. In both cases, yes, someone else is controlling the environment.

As per your last paragraph - I was researching why kids make poor choices for another thread - and many articles argued opportunity as a major issue. Kids whose parents both work and have a lot of time alone at home. Good time to have sex or do drugs. I do get that not all kids will make poor choices - but I do not want to be naive and ignore the stats, either. I do think parents should minimize opportunity. If possible, I think there should be an adult home most of the time when teens are home. If that is not possible, I think you have to look at your kid and decide whether or not planned activities may be a way to help keep them out of trouble. I am not sure I would impose it on a teen (unless they have earned your distrust), but I would strongly encourage it in some circumstances.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtiger*
> 
> Extracurricular activities do more than teach kids skills or keep them busy... they also teach kids how to interact with others. Social skills are very important in life, and they are more easily developed when kids are young. Even if they're not particularly social/sociable, it's important to learn how to interact with others appropriately.


I've heard this before. If they learn so many social skills, then why were (and maybe still are) so many of the kids who were doing lots of extracurriculars also the kids who went around bullying people?


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## Chicky2 (May 29, 2002)

I've seen this with my own kids. They were both struggling in certain areas--my son w/reading and my daughter w/math. Once they both started taking violin and piano, that has totally changed! My son is now speeding thru the lower grade levels of language arts to 'catch up', and his sister is speeding thru the lower levels of her math lessons. It's fantastic!

To the OP, I agree that he should not stop the jazz band until a logical stopping point--end of semester, end of school year, or at the very least, end of the next concert. It's not fair to the other kids if he just quits in the middle. Before my kids started their music lessons we had a long talk about what commitment they were willing to give. After all, we were willing to give up things for ourselves to pay for their lessons. They both decided that a year is reasonable.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EFmom*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


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## bronxmom (Jan 22, 2008)

I agree with StormBride. My memory of what this was like as a kid was that the kids who did the sports, in particular, tended to be the popular crowd, tended to be cliqueish and often were mean. Not that all kids doing extra-curriculars are mean but I think we have to unpack what we mean by social skills. Kids on teams and in sports may learn to navigate different people, learn to fit in, learn to get along. They do not necessarily learn (though surely many do) how to be their own authentic selves, figure out what matters to them and how to have integrity, learn to be empathetic and caring to others who do not share their interests or abilities, etc. There are many ways to learn social skills and extracurriculars is not a pre-requisite.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


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## Juuulie (Apr 15, 2009)

Maybe we should also unpack what we mean by "extra-curricular activities." Could be a one-day art workshop. Could be a six-week dance class at the local YMCA. Could be a season of soccer or a year of jazz band. Could be a life-long commitment to martial arts, music, ballet, or a particular sport. Or a synagogue or church youth group. Or some type of community service. Each of these extra-curricular activities require quite different levels of commitment, not to mention parental involvement. And each brings different rewards.

Furthermore, even within one type of activity not all programs are created equal. Just to take the example of music, which I am personally most familiar with, I have seen programs run by the most wonderful loving teachers who do nothing but foster cooperation, patience, perseverance, integrity and empathy. I have also seen programs that are the opposite, where all that matters are auditions and competitions and being "first chair."

I think it may be a mistake to talk in such general terms about whether or not we would "require" our kids to participate in "an extra-curricular activity." Every kid is different, every parent is different, and every activity is different.


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