# The meconium poll



## wasabi (Oct 12, 2004)

This is in response to hearing yet again how castor oil causes babies to poop as well. When I rebutted that on the ground that it doesn't make sense, is contrary to research I've read and that there aren't actual studies showing that it does someone posted a link to a abstract of a self-reporting study that found that women who used co were more likely to have mec than those who didn't. Enemas and other things did not have this effect. Now of course my question would be what factors did they account for? IE overdue women are both more likely to use CO and have babies that have mec while some hospitals may give all women enemas. Anyway I pointed out that wasn't actually a study but was just a big anecdotal survey and that I could probably do the same here and not find a correlation. So this is a multiple choice survey so please choose all that apply.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

No poll yet, but all the evidence I've found has been correlative, not causative. IE: Women who were overdue were more likely to have mec and they were the same group more likely to use castor oil.


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## maxmama (May 5, 2006)

Even if there is a correlation between mec and castor oil, what difference does it make? The issue is really the anoxia leading to an in utero gasp in the first place, and the mec that can be inhaled that way. We don't even suction on the perineum anymore, because the evidence is that the small amount of mec in the trachea isn't enough to create MAS. So if the castor oil does make babies poop, but does not cause anoxia, my response would probably be why does it matter?

I'm not being flip; I genuinely don't understand why the isolated *presence* of mec matters, particularly in a post-dates pregnancy. It can be a red flag, but usually isn't. It's the anoxia it can signal that is really the problem, because without anoxia there won't be fetal gasping (as opposed to breathing) in utero and thus no MAS.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I voted on-time and no mec. BUT according to most OBs she was overdue (41 weeks 2 days)

No attempts at induction of any sort.

-Angela


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## wasabi (Oct 12, 2004)

I definitely agree with you both but people throw it out there as a reason not to use CO (you know go with pit instead!). The abstract also noted that meconium was correlated with higher incidence of c-section and apgars of 1. Which again has more to do with handling of the labor and birth than the mec itself.

I've realized I've probably messed up the poll so that it won't be possible to know if the time you had mec was a time you used castor oil or not. For instance I had four births, 1 with mec, 2 with pit (the mec birth was a pit birth) and 2 with CO and no mec. Ah well we can just discuss I guess.


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## roxyrox (Sep 11, 2006)

My ds was born at 40+11. I did have a sweep but no other attempots at induction. I know a baby who died as a direct result of his mother using castor oil to induce labour. I would never do it.


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## beckyand3littlemonsters (Sep 16, 2006)

*I've never used castor oil and never would, to me the fact the castor oil may or may not be proven to cause baby to pass meconium is niether here or there i've heard storys where its happened is enough for me to know i would never want to risk it. i've also heard of babies comeing out covered in the stuff and been so slippy they were dropped. also as causes sisckness and diareah can also cause severe dehydration in mum and then not even work anyway.
the idea of been able to $h!t through the eye of a needle whille in labour doesn't seem like a very nice prospect either*


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## cottonwood (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wasabi* 
I definitely agree with you both but people throw it out there as a reason not to use CO (you know go with pit instead!).

Right, because pit use can't cause distress.







Do people really say this? I've never heard that reasoning.

IMO, the issue is not whether meconium is present so much as what _caused_ the meconium. In other words, is something causing distress to the baby? Taking castor oil (per Susun Weed's instructions) made me so incredibly ill. I wouldn't want to take the chance of any of it getting through to the baby for just that reason. I realize not everyone has that experience with castor oil and that most castor oil babies do fine at birth, but it's just not a variable I'm comfortable inserting into the equation, considering that for me induction was completely unnecessary anyway.


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

I wish there had been an other. My baby passed mec at 38 weeks due to an ECV. I don't think it would have happened had that not occurred.


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## wasabi (Oct 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fourlittlebirds* 
Right, because pit use can't cause distress.







Do people really say this? I've never heard that reasoning.

That was my exact point that I woud totally believe it if they linked pit to mec because we know it gets to the baby while CO passes through the intestines.

Roxy in what way did the baby die "as a direct result" of the mother using CO? Did she induce early and the baby wasn't able to live because otherwise I'm really curious about what this direct link was.

I really don't see how it could possibly get *into* your uterus to make the baby come out slippery. That's just not how our bodies work I mean if I drink a whole lot of chocolate syrup and then my water breaks my baby is not going to come out covered in chocolate syrup. There is no way for the actual oil to get into the amnion to make the baby slippery. Certainly there are pros and cons to using co and everyone has to make that choice themselves but the oil somehow going directly from your mouth into your bag of waters? I just don't think that's based in reality.


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## roxyrox (Sep 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wasabi* 
That was my exact point that I woud totally believe it if they linked pit to mec because we know it gets to the baby while CO passes through the intestines.

*Roxy in what way did the baby die "as a direct result" of the mother using CO? Did she induce early and the baby wasn't able to live because otherwise I'm really curious about what this direct link was.*
I really don't see how it could possibly get *into* your uterus to make the baby come out slippery. That's just not how our bodies work I mean if I drink a whole lot of chocolate syrup and then my water breaks my baby is not going to come out covered in chocolate syrup. There is no way for the actual oil to get into the amnion to make the baby slippery. Certainly there are pros and cons to using co and everyone has to make that choice themselves but the oil somehow going directly from your mouth into your bag of waters? I just don't think that's based in reality.

She took the castor oil on her due date. Within 2 hours she was having really strong contractions - the baby started to kick really strongly in her stomach and she sensed something was wrong. She went to the hospital - they performed an emergency caserean but the baby was stillborn. It had passed a lot of meconium. They said it was as a result of her taking the castor oil.
It is not a chance I would take.


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## MelKnee (Dec 5, 2001)

I voted "overdue, no mec", however my living children were born "on time", just not on their due dates. No inductions.


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## beckyand3littlemonsters (Sep 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wasabi* 
I really don't see how it could possibly get *into* your uterus to make the baby come out slippery. That's just not how our bodies work I mean if I drink a whole lot of chocolate syrup and then my water breaks my baby is not going to come out covered in chocolate syrup. There is no way for the actual oil to get into the amnion to make the baby slippery. Certainly there are pros and cons to using co and everyone has to make that choice themselves but the oil somehow going directly from your mouth into your bag of waters? I just don't think that's based in reality.

*i was just going by what i read on another site and the mw knew she had taken it cause of the coating of oil on the babies skin, and they were lucky they had just changed the bed so baby fell on a pile of sheets rather than on to the floor.
as for how it would get to baby, would it not pass to baby the same way everyone else we eat or drink does, the same way if a pregnant drank alcohol or took painkillers*


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## MillingNome (Nov 18, 2005)

DD was right on time. Ds was late and had meconium. He did not have the nicest birth.


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## wasabi (Oct 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beckyand3littlemonsters* 
*
as for how it would get to baby, would it not pass to baby the same way everyone else we eat or drink does, the same way if a pregnant drank alcohol or took painkillers*

From my understanding 1)no castor oil is not absorbed by the intestines but instead passes straight through which is what makes you poop. 2)For the actual *oil* itself to get into your water is not like how alcohol or anything else we eat or drink does. It would be like if you ate a hamburger and then gave birth and there was hamburger on the baby. Or you drank orange juice and there was orange juice in the water. You're not talking about the essence of what you ate reaching the baby; you're talking about the actual thing, the oil itself, somehow reaching the baby through some direct pipeline from your mouth to the sac of water and that's not how the umbilical cord works to the best of my understanding. It would certainly make castor oil the only thing that actually works that way. Babies are slippery when they are born. They have amniotic fluid on them and they have vernix on them which is cheesey and slippery. I just don't see how on earth castor oil could possibly get from the mother's mouth into the sac of water to get on the baby's body. Does not seem at all possible though I'd love to see or hear anything that might explain how a food that was consumed would somehow get to the baby without being changed from the form it was consumed in.


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## wasabi (Oct 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *roxyrox* 
She took the castor oil on her due date. Within 2 hours she was having really strong contractions - the baby started to kick really strongly in her stomach and she sensed something was wrong. She went to the hospital - they performed an emergency caserean but the baby was stillborn. It had passed a lot of meconium. They said it was as a result of her taking the castor oil.
It is not a chance I would take.

I absolutely understand not taking the chance.

But I do see that this is an assumption that the baby did not have meconium prior to her taking the castor oil which may or may not be true. There is no direct link which would be a finding that x compound from the castor oil caused the baby to die or if they could somehow know the baby didn't have mec prior to the co but did after she took it. Direct result is a very strong phrasing that for me only applies in very strict circumstances like "I had a near fatal hemmorhage as a direct result of the OB pulling on the cord" or "My baby was very sluggish as a direct result of the stadol I had during labor." With my only mec birth water was broken early in my labor with my second birth. Things had been going fine. I was laboring and walking around etc. Got to the hospital and they checked me and gave me an enema and shortly after broke my water and there was mec in it. What caused it? Who knows? Didn't have it with my natural births where I labored at home up until the end and did use castor oil.







:


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## maxmama (May 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *roxyrox* 
She took the castor oil on her due date. Within 2 hours she was having really strong contractions - the baby started to kick really strongly in her stomach and she sensed something was wrong. She went to the hospital - they performed an emergency caserean but the baby was stillborn. It had passed a lot of meconium. They said it was as a result of her taking the castor oil.
It is not a chance I would take.

It's a sad story, but it's a temporal association, not a cause. Mec is extremely common, and as I mentioned above, it's the associated anoxia that presents the risk, not the mec. Particularly for a stillbirth, since the only thing mec can cause is meconium aspiration syndrome, which is a severe chemical pneumonia and so clearly not the issue for a baby who hasn't breathed.


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## babycatcher01 (Nov 28, 2005)

Had dd on time with no castor oil and there was mec, ds week over with mec no castor oil.


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## pamamidwife (May 7, 2003)

I agree that meconium is not an issue without nonreassuring fetal heart tones.


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## barefoot mama (Apr 30, 2006)

I had only one baby with meconiuim. She was just a few days "early". It was quite heavy and had been there for a while, since the bag of water was stained brown. Thank goodness she was born unassisted. She had no breathing trouble whatsoever, and we did not suction at all. The worst part was cleaning it out of her hair (she had quite a bit). I did not use castor oil. I wouldn't do it for two reasons. One, because I believe my babies will come when it's time. Two, because I have heard stories of horrible labors as a result of castor oil. I have never heard the castor oil=meconium association. And the slippery baby thing makes no sense to me at all.


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## Full Heart (Apr 27, 2004)

I have never had a baby with mec even though all were 42 weeks and I had castor oil with 3 of them.

I agree I can't see how castor oil could possibly go through to the sac (or how the baby could pass mec because of it). Since I have taken it a few times I know the oil goes right through you. Kinda like corn







. And it happens so fast I would wonder what would be getting absorbed and where.

Some mws won't attend hbs if there is mec so it means a transport. So some women might not want to risk it if there is the slightest chance co does cause mec.


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## vanessab23 (Nov 9, 2005)

My baby was "late" (42 weeks) with castor oil induction and NO MEC.


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## MsElle07 (Jul 14, 2006)

Baby #1 = castor oil. NO mec.
Baby #2 = NO castor oil. Mec present.
Both babies on time. Both babies healthy.


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## stacyann21 (Oct 21, 2006)

With ds my water didn't break until I was fully dilated. There was no meconium.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

My son was 10 days past my EDD. I did not use anything to induce labor other than long walks, eating spicy food and







: well I'll leave that to your imagination. He had meconium.


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## erin_brycesmom (Nov 5, 2005)

I didn't really know how to vote. My first was induced at 18 days post dates and did not have mec. My second was spontaneous labor at 42 weeks and did have mec. I voted overdue with mec and overdue without mec but then if I click pitocin was used that would seem to flaw the results, but not clicking it doesn't seem right either. Pit was used with my non-mec baby. My baby that did have mec, had a double nuchal cord which was probably the reason for the mec (not the post dates).

~Erin


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## Sonnenwende (Sep 9, 2006)

41 weeks (But may have been longer), no castor oil, spontaneous labor, oxytocin in the last minutes, no meconium.


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## DoomaYula (Aug 22, 2006)

With my twins I was induced at 34w with cervidil, no pit. No mec.

With dd I had taken castor oil (although she wasn't born for 3 days after that) and no mec.

Anecdotally, I've seen more mec in moms who didn't take CO than in the moms I know who have taken it.

I don't plan to use it again. I felt very uncomfortable, there in the bathroom for about 4 hours!


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

My dd was 5 days overdue calculated from my know ovulation date. I was not induced and I didnt have pitocin in labor until after my water was broken and there was already mec present. I did not use co but I did do a few doses each of black and blue cohash.


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## MommytoTwo (Jun 20, 2004)

I was overdue, used castor oil twice (which did not work) and the baby, when finally born, did not have mec.


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## Spark (Nov 21, 2001)

When all things point to a healthy pregnancy & healthy babe, I prefer to not do a single thing to encourage labor. I prefer to just live my life as I normally would. My babies have been born at 38 weeks and then one at 41.5 weeks. With one of them I encouraged labor and ugh, while it was a relatively fast labor 4.5 hours, it was my most exhausting. (I didn't do CO, but I walked 4 hours to bring on labor and then just as I was falling in bed for the night my labor began.)

No mec for any of my babies. But, like Pamamidwife said, even if there was mec I wouldn't neccesarily worry about it unless there were other signs.


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## kerikadi (Nov 22, 2001)

I have to admit I am always confused when women ask about taking CO. I just don't understand WHY??? I know some women are in a position where they could be dropped by their MW or be induced but so many times the woman is just 'ready' to have her baby and it is on her due date or within a week of her due date.

For me it's more about finding a caregiver that isn't going to threaten me with procedures if I don't give birth by a certain date. I asked this question of all the 9 MWs I interviewed - how soon can I give birth without intervention? How 'late' can I give birth at home without intervention? The answers I got were key in choosing the provider that I chose.

I know not all women have the option of choosing a provider that isn't worried about getting sued but I know if I was in that position I would fudge my dates just a bit to buy me some more time.

I just can't imagine spending hours in the bathroom with diarrhea and having contractions at the same time and then spending the rest of your labor dehydrated - it just sounds like a miserable way to give birth to me.

Nobody can make you get induced. Babies come when they are ready.

Keri


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## wasabi (Oct 12, 2004)

Well I'm not pregnant so I'm certainly not asking for myself.







In my case with DD#1 I had been very clear with my midwives that I had already had two big babies and this baby would be big too. No problem they said. Sounds like your body can handle this. No worries. I had already switched from an OB to these midwives early in the 2nd tri after I was getting bad vibes from the OB. Fast forward to 38w when I was measuring 46w and suddenly everyone is nervous and wants a u/s for size which I foolishly agreed to. This came up with a calculation for 11.5lbs by EDD. I was not concerned and refused induction or c-section etc. That was all fine and good but I was given basically until just a few days after my due date to produce a baby or be transferred to the OBs. I was not interested in that at all. So I chose to give castor oil a shot instead. I had one big poop about five hours after I took it and had contractions start. Took a nap and woke up in labor. No massive diarrhea. No dehydration at all. Having had big time pit augmention with my first two and ended up with an epi because of it I would chose castor oil and a shot a natural labor over a pit induciont seven days of the week and twice on Sunday. I also felt very confident that if DD was not ready then the CO was not going to work. To me that seemed like a much better alternative than trying to find someone who would take me on at 39w4d while carrying a theoretically 11.5lb baby.

With DD#2 my mom had come all the way up from Louisiana to help out with the baby and DD#1 and this was my one shot to have help so yeah four days after my EDD I chose to try castor oil again. Again figuring it would work or it wouldn't and no big deal either way. I was having regular contractions but they were off and on. I thought the CO might help them stay more steady. I also walked a lot and drank lots of water. I did have more effects from it than with DD#1 but still nothing devastating and I did not become dehydrated. Did have different midwive who I had made very clear to them that I was not going to have a late term u/s and this would be a big baby and I wasn't going to agree to a medical induction or c-section. They said that was fine and they were true to their word.

In both cases I almost wonder if taking the CO had more of a mental effect than anything else like "Yes ok everything is ready to go. Now it's ok to let go and have the baby." In an ideal world my provider wouldn't suddenly flip 180 degrees at my EDD and I wouldn't have to worry about who was going to watch DD while I was in labor if I didn't have the baby while my mom was there. That's not the world I live in though. So that's great if some people have no pressure whatsoever to deliver the baby. Not everyone does. We seem to go back and forth on these boards either saying "nothing will work if the baby's not ready" or "OMG if you take anything or do anything that might theoretically cause your labor to begin then you're rushing your baby out." In the grand scheme of things CO seemed like a very minor intervention and it was one I was willing to use. I felt less sure about taking cohosh tinctures which for some reason seem to be given more of a "natural" pass on these boards. I took EPO too but that seems to generally be considered ok as well. It is always a nice reality check to come to MDC though where I get to be the soggy one because I took castor oil after my EDD. It really is just all about your POV.


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## wasabi (Oct 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kerikadi* 
Nobody can make you get induced. Babies come when they are ready.

Keri

And this is not true. People can make you get induced. People can make you have a c-section. I actually feel very lucky that did not happen with DD#1 because I think if I had showed up earlier in labor that may well have been the situation I ended up in because the oncall medwife who I'd never met before was so freaked out about the 11.5lb baby I was going to have. I know I labor slowly so if I had showed up early in labor she would have been all over me to get a section. As it was she made me sign a consent form that they modified stating that the baby was 11.5 lbs and I was foolishly refusing a c-section despite the huge risks blah blah blah. My baby of course was under 10lbs. So yeah it's rare but not long after I had my DD there was the court order c-section and I just felt lucky that hadn't been me because I think it could have been.


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## barefoot mama (Apr 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wasabi* 
And this is not true. People can make you get induced. People can make you have a c-section..

Unfortunately, this is all too true.









So although I stated I wouldn't do CO, I suppose I should qualify that by stating that if I somehow found myself in a situation like that, I would do CO.


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## kerikadi (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wasabi* 
And this is not true. People can make you get induced. People can make you have a c-section.


Really? How do they make you do that? Not to sound fllippant but do they show up at your house and force you to go to the hospital? I mean what if you just don't show up for your scheduled induction or cesarean and wait to go into labor? Are they going to make you leave the hospital if you show up 42 weeks and in labor?

Keri


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Baby #1 was 11 days "overdue" and I had pit. No mec.
Baby #2 was 10 days "overdue" and I had a Cytotec/AROM induction. No mec.
Baby #3 was 15 days "overdue" and I had 2 doses of CO. No mec.


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## wasabi (Oct 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kerikadi* 
Really? How do they make you do that? Not to sound fllippant but do they show up at your house and force you to go to the hospital? I mean what if you just don't show up for your scheduled induction or cesarean and wait to go into labor? Are they going to make you leave the hospital if you show up 42 weeks and in labor?

Keri

No they won't make you leave the hospital. If they've gotten a court order for you to have a c-section and you show up they will enforce it! Did you really not hear about the woman on the news who left AMA so the hospital went and got a court order for a c-section if she came back? This really has happened. There really have been women who have been forced to have a c-section or induction because the doctors insisted it was what was best. Sure if you know ahead of time you can not show up for your induction but I could not have made my midwives keep seeing me. I had my DD on Monday night but if I had not had her by Thursday morning I was going to be transferred to OBs. Period. Now at that point they could not have made me have an induction or a c-section but I could not have made the midwives treat me. My choices would have been go with OBs I had never met or go to the ER when I was in labor and hope for the best. And quite honestly had I stayed with them and gone over to the OBs and held out I really do think they might well have started a legal process when they thought it wasn't safe for us any more. They were pretty darn clear that they really didn't think it was going to be safe to wait much longer than Thursday since my baby was only going to be getting bigger. And yeah you do sound really flippant but I guess that's easy to do if you haven't been in a position that sounds too scarily much like ones you've read about or heard on the news and think "thank god I managed to deliver before I got to that point because that could have been me very easily."


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## wasabi (Oct 12, 2004)

http://fishyvb.something-fishy.org/a...p/t-90461.html
This woman was arrested because she didn't have a c-section and one of her twins was stillborn. This was the other time I thought thank god not me becuase DD#1 had low apgars thanks to very aggressive treatment of SD. She had to be resuscitated and I thought you know if she died they could have arrested me. They recommended a c-section and I refused it so they could have blamed me legally. The fact that they said she weighed 11.5lbs and only weighed 9lb 13oz wouldn't have mattered if I had had a c-section. Not like I could have sued them for being wrong but me ignoring them and something going wrong (even if I would argue it was their fault and not to do with my choice at all) yeah they can arrest me for that.

ICAN has a whole section on court-ordered c-sections so I'm guessing it's a real issue that really does happen to women and not something I'm just making up.

http://www.gentlebirth.org/archives/...l#CourtOrdered


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## kerikadi (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wasabi* 
And yeah you do sound really flippant but I guess that's easy to do if you haven't been in a position that sounds too scarily much like ones you've read about or heard on the news and think "thank god I managed to deliver before I got to that point because that could have been me very easily."

What exactly makes you think I haven't been in that position before?

That is why I am asking. My situation was different but with my second I had to fight tooth and nail about certain things regarding my pregnancy, medications, labor and delivery.

Everyone makes the decisions they feel are right for them, their babies and their families, I am not condemning anyone.

I did hear about the story you referred to but that is the ONLY one I have heard of, really, I don't think that is the norm, I don't think it happens daily or to every woman that goes to 42 weeks.
BTW - I NEVER said you made up anything. I think you are taking this a little personally. I mearly asked a few simple questions.

I asked because I have known several women that went to 43 and 44 weeks. Some of them under the care of OBs, some MWs but none of them were forced to do anything. Yes, sometimes MWs do get nervous and transfer care and I know someone who was in that position and at that point she had the option of going with a different MW or going to an OB.
But she still had options.

I asked because I know there have been some women who felt they didn't have options but they really did. Some women are bullied into things because they are not told they have options. I am not at all saying this was your situation.

I guess for *me* I see other options. I chose my MW specifically because she has no delivery cut off point. I know not all women have this as an option. However, if my MW did stop treating me I would consider U/C as an option. I guess it all gets foggy once you introduce the medical establishment though and you have to worry about them calling authorities or at least threatening to.

I am rambling here.
I guess this is why I don't make my pregnancy part of the medical establishment - I don't want to be 'forced' into anything.

Keri


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## clavicula (Apr 10, 2005)

dd was on time (37w3d) no pit, no induction. *lots of mec*. doc said there is no need to worry until her heartrate was okay. she was okay. i was not, since i had toxaemia.


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## Malva (Nov 2, 2005)

I used castor oil but I don't think any of it stayed : I threw it up within minutes.

My baby was 13 days overdue and had passed meconium. Perfect baby in all regards.


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## momto l&a (Jul 31, 2002)

#1 "on time" no induction, no mec
#2 2 weeks "late" used cornsilk, mec
#3 3 weeks "late" used castor oil NO mec

I would use castor oil again. I had a short amount of time in the bathroom even though I took 2 doses. Labor didnt start till about 8 hours later. It was nice to be cleaned out


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## Mamma Mia (Aug 3, 2005)

Overdue, used castor oil during prodromal labor, no mec. I agree with the_lissa. Women who are overdue are more likely to have mec. and also more likely to use castor oil. Castor oil works because the molecules are too large for the intestine to absorb anything, so the body expels the intestinal contents. That stimulates labor. (Or that is the hope, anyway!) The only way that CO would *cause* mec. is if it caused distress. I haven't seen anything that shows that intestinal stimulation to induce labor causes distress. I wouldn't rule it out.

I had a fairly positive experience with CO, but many women are absolutely miserable and don't go into labor, or spend some amount of their labor miserable and on the pot. I personally found that I wasn't terribly uncomfortable and was laboring on the toilet anyway. I think the CO was the reason I didn't poop during dd's birth. While I didn't really care about the pooping thing, I ended up birthing on the bed and blood made it to the sheets and mattress. I slept in the bed with my babe 2 hours later, but if I'd pooped on it, I would have had to wait until my bedding was all washed. So I was glad I didn't poop!


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## wasabi (Oct 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kerikadi* 
I did hear about the story you referred to but that is the ONLY one I have heard of, really, I don't think that is the norm, I don't think it happens daily or to every woman that goes to 42 weeks.
BTW - I NEVER said you made up anything. I think you are taking this a little personally. I mearly asked a few simple questions.
Keri

If that's the only one you've heard of then you didn't click on the links posted because it wasn't just that one.

You didn't say I made up anything that is true but when I pointed out that there have been women forced to have c-sections or inductions your response "Really? How do they make you do that?" which certainly indicated a lack of belief that this happens and the entire post seemed quite mocking in tone. Yes only a handful have actually made the news but that doesn't mean they all are reported. Just an example but everyone time someone asks about the eye drops they will get a handful of responses that say "oh you can just refuse them" which is not true in MI and we do have quite a few moms who had CPS etc come down on them and the baby given eye drops anyway. None of those are on the news. You won't find any record of them other than in our threads. I don't think we can look up forced inductions and c-sections to get any idea how many times it does happen because it certainly doesn't always make the national news. And that doesn't take into consideration how many women are told that that's what the next step will be if they don't consent? IE "if you don't go for the induction then you're not taking your baby's welfare into consideration and we'll have to pursue legal action." There's no way to count those women.

I was not prepared for a UC. We could not afford a homebirth not to mention the difficulty of finding a midwife who would have taken one on at 40 weeks and my DH would not have gone along with it anyway. Yes you're right that once you involve the medical bureaucracy then you do get a whole set of risks but for most women that's part of birth. Not everyone is comfortable with a UC and so these are issues that many of us have to consider.


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## wasabi (Oct 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mamma Mia* 
Castor oil works because the molecules are too large for the intestine to absorb anything, so the body expels the intestinal contents. That stimulates labor. (Or that is the hope, anyway!) The only way that CO would *cause* mec. is if it caused distress. I haven't seen anything that shows that intestinal stimulation to induce labor causes distress. I wouldn't rule it out.

ITA. If it was just intestinal distress that caused it then an enema should have the same effect and according to this one "study" it did not.


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## skueppers (Mar 30, 2005)

Both of my kids were "late" -- 41w, 41w3d -- and both had meconium in the amniotic fluid. In neither case were any attempts made to induce labor.

(I did have pitocin during the last hour of labor with the first, but this was after the amniotic sac had ruptured, so I know the meconium was present before any pitocin was administered.)


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## kerikadi (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wasabi* 
You didn't say I made up anything that is true but when I pointed out that there have been women forced to have c-sections or inductions your response "Really? How do they make you do that?" which certainly indicated a lack of belief that this happens and the entire post seemed quite mocking in tone.

My goodness, you certainly read a LOT between the lines.









Keri


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## wasabi (Oct 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kerikadi* 
My goodness, you certainly read a LOT between the lines.









Keri

I was considering replying using similiar wording as your response to show how likely it would be that a response worded as yours was would be read as anything but negative but decided I wasn't going to go there. It's a little surprising to me that you're suddenly shocked that I could have read your tone as dismissive and doubtful when you yourself said you didn't want to seem flip which clearly indicates that you thought your remarks did sound flip and could be read that way. You further responded (without I guess reading the links I posted) that it was *one* case only and that it wasn't a common enough concern to be worried about and not something that happens to women daily. Again seems pretty clear that you were discounting whether or not it was something to be worried about. Not seeing a lot to read into with a response like "Really?" Seems like there's only one way to read that which is disbelief. How else it could be interpreted? I think you should check out the VBAC forum if you want to get an idea of how uncommon or unreal a concern is since I stumbled across a couple of threads dealing with this issue just by chance today. In any event I merely responded that yes you did sound flip and dismissive. I have no problem admitting that I sometimes read between the lines but this seems like a pretty clear cut case to me as I'm not reading between any lines, simply reading your words. In any event this was meant to be a poll asking about meconium and castor oil usuage not a debate for whether or not you should use castor oil. Not a debate for whether or not I'm bad for using castor oil or should have just found a new midwife at 39w 4d or just had a UC to avoid the medical beauracracy. Just a poll about whether or not your baby had mec and whether or not you used castor oil. So you would never use castor oil or any other possible induction method ever no matter how long you went overdue or any other circumstances. If you couldn't find a provider who would attend your birth you would just do a uc. Not at all what the poll was about but thanks for making your opinion known.


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## MidwifeErika (Jun 30, 2005)

My last baby was 43 weeks, no meconium, and I had tried an awful lot of castor oil on quite a few occasions.

I shouldn't say no meconium at all, she pooped as she was coming out, but no meconium before that.


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## kerikadi (Nov 22, 2001)

I was writing when you were posting the link about other cases.
I said *I* had _heard_ of ONE case, didn't say there was only one case.
We obviously have different views and make different choices which is what makes the world go round.

My apologies to the OP for the hijack









Keri


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## chiro_kristin (Dec 31, 2004)

I voted "on time, no mec" although I had no clue about my "due date" I had more of an idea of "due month."


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## meggles (Mar 9, 2004)

I voted on time and with meconium. DD came 3 days past her edd. I discovered a little moderate/heavy mec. 24 hours after my water broke (I had a 2 day labor). I did not induce with anything. DD was fine and did not need suctioning at birth.


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## woodchick (Jan 5, 2007)

C was born at 40w 5d with severe MAS. Two weeks in the Nicu were to follow.

Nothing used to induce labor.


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## charmander (Dec 30, 2003)

DS - on time, used castor oil - no meconium
DD - on time, used castor oil - no meconium


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## MonicaS (Oct 27, 2002)

My fairly quick, totally unaugmented 2nd(VBAC) baby that was born *on* her EDD passed mec and supposedly aspirated it. They worked on sucking it out of her airway in the room w/ me, but she never left the room. I did get a narcotic shot in my hip during labor, so that may have had something to do w/ her passing the mec.

She turned out to be my most sickly baby, as well. Neither my 1st or my 3rd babies got sick while still nursing(my last DD that nursed for over 3 yrs didn't get a cold until the month after she weaned), but my poor 2nd baby had a bad cold at 2 wks old. That trend continues today, and she is 8. I always wondered if the mec had anything to do w/ her poor immune system. She is usually the first in the house to catch what is going around.


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## Jster (Apr 22, 2003)

I was two weeks overdue, took castor oil to induce, and no meconium!!! A nuchal hand, though, which I think was part of the delay...


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## ani'smommy (Nov 29, 2005)

I was induced with pit -- on time (pre-e) and while dd didn't have and mec, she pooed aaaall over me as they were passing her up to me.


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

My #1 was born right on his due date (I'd been temping/charting and had a solid ovulation date).

When my water broke right before the urge to push hit, it was "meconium stained," (whatever that means, exactly). There was also not a lot of it, which went along with his being a very low-movement baby all along, I think.

Midwife (CNM, hospital birth), totally downplayed it, saying "No problem, lots of babies have mec, its no big deal). I think she *may* have suctioned him on my belly (hospital policy was suction at perineum, but she didn't mess with that). They didn't whisk him away, cut the cord fast, or call in a pediatrics team.

He was right on time, but everyone who saw him in the next few days thought he must have been postdates - no vernix, long nails, skin already peeling on his hands.

Little sis was also born on EDD, no mec, but also no vernix at all.


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## mommacanary (Aug 26, 2006)

Woops







my question posted twice for some reason?


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## mommacanary (Aug 26, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wasabi* 
Well I'm not pregnant so I'm certainly not asking for myself.







In my case with DD#1 I had been very clear with my midwives that I had already had two big babies and this baby would be big too. No problem they said. Sounds like your body can handle this. No worries. I had already switched from an OB to these midwives early in the 2nd tri after I was getting bad vibes from the OB. Fast forward to 38w when I was measuring 46w and suddenly everyone is nervous and wants a u/s for size which I foolishly agreed to. This came up with a calculation for 11.5lbs by EDD. I was not concerned and refused induction or c-section etc. That was all fine and good but I was given basically until just a few days after my due date to produce a baby or be transferred to the OBs. I was not interested in that at all. So I chose to give castor oil a shot instead. I had one big poop about five hours after I took it and had contractions start. Took a nap and woke up in labor. No massive diarrhea. No dehydration at all. Having had big time pit augmention with my first two and ended up with an epi because of it I would chose castor oil and a shot a natural labor over a pit induciont seven days of the week and twice on Sunday. I also felt very confident that if DD was not ready then the CO was not going to work. To me that seemed like a much better alternative than trying to find someone who would take me on at 39w4d while carrying a theoretically 11.5lb baby.

With DD#2 my mom had come all the way up from Louisiana to help out with the baby and DD#1 and this was my one shot to have help so yeah four days after my EDD I chose to try castor oil again. Again figuring it would work or it wouldn't and no big deal either way. I was having regular contractions but they were off and on. I thought the CO might help them stay more steady. I also walked a lot and drank lots of water. I did have more effects from it than with DD#1 but still nothing devastating and I did not become dehydrated. Did have different midwive who I had made very clear to them that I was not going to have a late term u/s and this would be a big baby and I wasn't going to agree to a medical induction or c-section. They said that was fine and they were true to their word.

In both cases I almost wonder if taking the CO had more of a mental effect than anything else like "Yes ok everything is ready to go. Now it's ok to let go and have the baby." In an ideal world my provider wouldn't suddenly flip 180 degrees at my EDD and I wouldn't have to worry about who was going to watch DD while I was in labor if I didn't have the baby while my mom was there. That's not the world I live in though. So that's great if some people have no pressure whatsoever to deliver the baby. Not everyone does. We seem to go back and forth on these boards either saying "nothing will work if the baby's not ready" or "OMG if you take anything or do anything that might theoretically cause your labor to begin then you're rushing your baby out." In the grand scheme of things CO seemed like a very minor intervention and it was one I was willing to use. I felt less sure about taking cohosh tinctures which for some reason seem to be given more of a "natural" pass on these boards. I took EPO too but that seems to generally be considered ok as well. It is always a nice reality check to come to MDC though where I get to be the soggy one because I took castor oil after my EDD. It really is just all about your POV.

Hi Wasabi







I'm just curious how much did the baby weigh when born?


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## wasabi (Oct 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommacanary* 
Hi Wasabi







I'm just curious how much did the baby weigh when born?

Oh I said it in another post. She was 9lbs 13oz. Since I had already had a vaginal delivery with a 10lb 2.3oz baby I would have been mega pissed to agree to a section or induction that ended in a section and had a baby that was less than 10lbs.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

Both my babies had meconium. Both were born past their due date, one by only 4 days and one by 9, so not really overdue in my mind since I have always heard 40 weeks give or take 2 weeks. Doctors seem to have a different opinion.

In any event, both my labors started the same way, with my water breaking in bed and me running to the bathroom and there being meconium in the water. The first time I didn't see meconium so I said there was none when I called my doctor. I didn't lose that much of my water when it broke--it was more like a pop and a small amount came out, but most of it was still in there. When I got to the hospital they said there was meconium and they did an amnio infusion to help wash it out, and sometimes they would push the fluid out and there was a lot of dark meconium at that point.

My second birth was a homebirth and my water broke and leaked all over the bathroom floor as I was running for the tub because I didn't want to get it all over the place. I was sitting in the tub, yelling for my husband and when he turned on the light I saw the meconium stained water. It was kind of light, I think, like green tea with brown flecks.

Neither time did I use castor oil. I did have pit augmentation with my first birth after awhile.


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## ~*~MamaJava~*~ (Mar 7, 2004)

I should have picked overdue/no mec for the 1st 2 babies. I picked overdue/mec because of dd. I didn't take castor oil but I did take black/blue cohosh, homeopathic first, then later, herbal.


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## 1babysmom (May 22, 2006)

I tried castor oil. It didn't do a darn thing...went "overdue"....no meconium.


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## AllyRae (Dec 10, 2003)

Brandon--40w0d, pit induction, fetal distress ==> meconium (not present prior to distress)

Ryland--41w0d, pit augmentation, fetal distress ==> meconium (not present prior to distress)


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## AbbieB (Mar 21, 2006)

DD born 3 weeks "over due". Based on her skin and the placenta this is probably accurate.

51 hour labor. She was probably slightly off center most of the labor. We could see the impression of my pelvis on the upper side side of her head.

My water broke sometime ion the last 24 hours when we were trying to push on her head to help her move into a better position. There was slight greenish water.

She was born in the birthing pool. 1 1/2 hours of pushing. The water got very cloudy brown during her birth. She was pretty clean (in pictures I can see a little bit of yellowish stuff here and there) when I lifted her up out of the water. I think the maconium was washed away in the pool.

I did 2 oz of castor oil 3 times during the week before she was born. We were trying to induce, get a stalled labor going, then inducing again. I have to agree with previous posters that say it doesn't make sense that castor oil would affect the baby. Plus the stuff was very definitely out of my system within 30/40 minutes!


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## kim_nz (Jun 11, 2004)

All 3 of mine had meconium and i never took CO.

#1 agumented - overdue - distressed - meconium when waters were broken - c/s
#2 VBAC with epi - on time - no distress - meconium when waters were broken
#3 natural at home - overdue - no distress - meconium when waters broke


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