# Night #1 UPDATE night#7 Ready to throw in the towel



## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

So me and Kiana(DD) sat down last night and had a talk about sleeping arrangments. I told her what wasn't working out and what was, and reminded her that Mommy and Daddy need sleep to do a good job taking care of her. She went to sleep 10 minutes before we went to bed so I put her in her cradle and crashed myself. She slept till about 4am, ate from one side and refused the other. When I went to put her back in her cradle she cried, so I picked her up and bounced her a bit and low and behold she burped. After that I rocked her a little more and lay her in the cradle asleep to see what she did. She played a few minutes then drifted off to sleep all on her own. I'll wait a few nights till I see a pattern and maybe I've figured out what's been waking her and what makes her want to nurse so briefly. Just figured after yesterday everyone would be curious as to what I dicided to do.


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## veganf (Dec 12, 2005)

I'm glad you figured out an approach that works for you.


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## artemis80 (Sep 8, 2006)

It sounds like you are still able to be very responsive to her!


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

Quote:

So me and Kiana(DD) sat down last night and had a talk about sleeping arrangments. I told her what wasn't working out and what was, and reminded her that Mommy and Daddy need sleep to do a good job taking care of her.
For five months old, she seems quite perceptive







Hope things continue to go well for you both


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## mamanurse (Jan 22, 2006)

How's it going CC? How did night 2 go?


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## AugustineM (Mar 21, 2005)

Hee hee, I really need to have a talk with my 6 month old. She's waking every hour!!


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

Night 2

DD Came to bed with us awake, then she woke?....4 times I think, 1 of those were because MJ was scratching while leaning up against the cradle, and the second was for a burb, both I rocked her back to sleep.

Night 3

We skipped our 8pm nap and around 10pm she started acting tired. I thought "Great" then sat up till 11pm(the goal is 10:30) I didn't bring her to bed instead I stayed up till she fell asleep. She woke up twice, which was the goal anyways. The amazing part is that DH went and got her both times.

So tonight I think we will try to disract her for her 8 pm nap, or possibliy try to move it up to 7 pm, that way we can wear her out then spend an hour before bed time relaxing and maybe take a bath.


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

Night #4

Her naps got all screwed up yesterday because she wanted to stay up and play with DD while I was at work till 1pm. By the time 6pm rolled around she was taking what should have been her ewarly afternoon nap. Then we had no 8 pm nap. I started to rock and relax with her at 10pm. By 10:25 she was wide awake, 5 minutes later she was asleep(yay). She woke to eat at 2am and 4am so I took her to bed. She woke 3 other times. The first was 12:45am I picked her up and rocked her for 5 minutes, the second was a burb after I put her down, which she got out herself, aswell as put herself back to sleep playing with her blankets. The third she woke up and started to stir, I left her thinking I would pick her up as soon as the fussy turned to crying and then it was quiet. If I had been lazy like before to save the extra few minutes to go back to sleep I would have nursed her 5 times last night in bed, instead it was only 2 and she's figuring out valuable skills at 5 months without CIO. Plusme andDH got to go to bed on time and weren't quite tired because of the ast good night so we found some tiime to catch up on DTD.

Don't worry I'll only keep this posting up for the first week b/c it seems I've lost your intrest anyways but in the end I would like to write this all down so at least it is all togather.


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## rzberrymom (Feb 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chronic Chrissy* 
If I had been lazy like before to save the extra few minutes to go back to sleep I would have nursed her 5 times last night in bed, instead it was only 2 and she's figuring out valuable skills at 5 months without CIO.

Those of us who choose to nurse our infants back to sleep are not lazy. It is biology. It is what an infant is designed to do.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rzberrymom* 
Those of us who choose to nurse our infants back to sleep are not lazy. It is biology. It is what an infant is designed to do.









Speak for yourself...I'm pretty lazy...but, yeah, I know what you mean...and you're right.


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## jennybean0722 (Jun 19, 2006)

Dear Chronic,

We are also trying some of the same things you are doing. I still nurse 5 mo old DS to sleep (usually several times in the first wee hours), but after that, if he wakes very soon we know that it is b/c he just wants my nipple in his mouth at all times....ouch for me. So we are using these times to have dad snuggle him to sleep. They don't happen often so when they present themselves, we take advantage of the opportunity to get him to sleep in a different way.

You are the expert on your child....you will know when she needs to nurse and not nurse, and when the need to be snuggled. I feel we are finally getting a little hang of it. I still know we'll have setbacks, teething, illness, etc. Two steps forward, one backward. For instance, it took him an hour to go down for his nap this am...and I nursed him too.

Like the others, I don't see anything wrong with nursing to sleep, but at the same time, it is good to know and pick out the opportunities where DH can bond with the little one and snuggle him back to sleep







and create opportunities for the little one to learn that others like DH can help him to get to sleep too ~

Good luck,
Jenny


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jennybean0722* 
Like the others, I don't see anything wrong with nursing to sleep, but at the same time, it is good to know and pick out the opportunities where DH can bond with the little one and snuggle him back to sleep







and create opportunities for the little one to learn that others like DH can help him to get to sleep too ~


Yes, I agree, that can be nice. At a certain age. Five months is not that age, it's simply too young to NOT nurse every single time baby needs it. A baby that age needs unrestricted access to the breast & the best way to acheive that is allowing the baby to sleep where is is supposed to, next to mom.


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:



Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chronic Chrissy* 
If I had been lazy like before to save the extra few minutes to go back to sleep I would have nursed her 5 times last night in bed, instead it was only 2 and she's figuring out valuable skills at 5 months without CIO.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *rzberrymom* 
Those of us who choose to nurse our infants back to sleep are not lazy. It is biology. It is what an infant is designed to do.


Aman Rzberrymom.

I don't know what to say. I'm half laughing (life lessons.. at 5 months old?







) and half shaking my head.

Independence is not learned at 5 months old, and by feeding your child because they NEED to be nursed you are NOT lazy. Educate yourself, please.


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## NotTheOnlyOne (Oct 23, 2006)

you guys need to give her a break!!! If you read the first post she said her dd is waking to nurse briefly... that tells me that she doesnt need a "feeding." She needs help going back to sleep. Which is exactly what Chronic Christy is doing. Helping her babe go back to sleep. She never said she was denying her need to nurse or letting her CIO. Just figuring out a dfferent way to help her get to sleep when she DOESN'T need to eat.

CC, have you tried a pacifier? A lot of popel hear will falme for that too, but some of us use them. My ds would be attatched 24/7 if I didnt use one. I tried to take it away once, but he was MISERABLE. I'd rather have a happy baby with a paci than a miserable babe without one.


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

How is not nursing to sleep a "valuable life skill"? The baby is 5 months old for heavens sake, isn't that to be expected at the age? I would think so.


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## AugustineM (Mar 21, 2005)

Chrissy -- When my DS was 5 months old I was really obsessed about his sleep, too. I looked at the clock tons like you are doing, tried to figure out, hmmmmm... what should I do now? Should I nurse or not nurse? Pat his back, rock him? I was seriously like completely worried I was doing it "wrong" if I just slept with him and nursed him whenever.

Lemme tell ya... you've got a long road ahead of you if you do it that way, worried about time and how long it's been since she nursed, and she shouldn't be hungry yet, or shouldn't "need" to nurse, yet, etc.

I've learned from having a now 27 month old (who has slept throught the night a handful of times) and a 6 month old (that wakes every two hours to nurse) that sleep and babies and toddlers is a constantly evolving process, and sleep is a biological necessity, so it really isn't something that you can force or tinker with that much, unless you choose to CIO. Your baby might start sleeping through the night when she's 8 months old, then a month later start waking every hour. Then she might go back to sleeping through the night at a year old, then start waking every hour when she's 14 months. Sleep is really largely based on personality and temperment, I think. It's a long journey and all you can really do is hang on for the ride, I think. THere isn't much to "teach" a child about sleep. They know how to do it. They'll do it. They just need you a *LOT* for the first couple years. It's normal and natural.

I don't know what I'm trying to say exactly, except that I always tell people not to stress or worry too much about your child's sleep, unless it seems they really aren't getting enough. Turn the clock away. Don't look at the time. It will only make you crazy. Once I got rid of our bedroom clock my life was soooo much simpler. I quit thinking... hmm... did she wake up 4 times or 5 times last night? Is it getting better or worse? What am I doing wrong? Should I be getting her to "learn" to sleep on her own (which is a silly idea for an infant anyway)?

Because the truth is, as long as we're nursing our babes and loving them and letting them be close to us, there is no wrong. They *will* sleep independently. Your teenager will not be in your bed. THe time with them is short. Try to enjoy it.

BTW, I hope you wanted advice or thoughts or something. I just assumed you did since you have been posting!


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## AugustineM (Mar 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtosimon* 
you guys need to give her a break!!! If you read the first post she said her dd is waking to nurse briefly... that tells me that she doesnt need a "feeding." She needs help going back to sleep. Which is exactly what Chronic Christy is doing. Helping her babe go back to sleep. She never said she was denying her need to nurse or letting her CIO. Just figuring out a dfferent way to help her get to sleep when she DOESN'T need to eat.

One last quick thing, sorry. I just reread this post and wanted to add that a lot of night nursing, even if it is only for a minute, works to boost a mother's milk supply. Our milk production is stimulated not by the *length* of a nursing, but the frequency of it. So generally if your baby is waking to nurse only for a minute or two it could be because they are trying to boost your supply. This especially happens between 5-7 months, because of the major 6 month growth spurt. They're smart. They're very very smart, and they know what they need better than we do, often!

This often happens really frequently when a mother works during the day, too.


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

Quote:

If I had been lazy like before to save the extra few minutes to go back to sleep I would have nursed her 5 times last night in bed, instead it was only 2 and she's figuring out valuable skills at 5 months without CIO.
I'm concerned with this statement. Would you be willing to clarify, because I'm confused. I'm not quite sure what *skills* a five month old could possibly be learning in the scenario you'd described. Coping? Did you _mean_ to imply that those of us who nurse babies to sleep, with babies next to us, are lazy? If so, I'd prefer to be called "relaxed."









As I'm sure we all know, human babies are the most dependent of all mammals. We're born _before_ our time so we can fit through during birth







Nine months _in_ mama; nine months out _on_ mama. Babies are happiest when they are in the arms or otherwise touching their mothers, happy to nurse whenever and wherever. It's normal.

I'm offering my opinion, not to judge, simply to pass along what I've learned (the much harder way than having 500 AP mamas come to my aid







) is that small babies simply need their mommies--day _and_ night. Sometimes our expectations are far away from the reality of mothering an infant.

I would suggest attempting to let go of the worry about how often she's waking, nursing, or _doing_ anything. Just be. Enjoy her. Find ways to get your needs met during the day to re-energize your nighttime efforts.

Consider reframing your time together at night--rocking, nursing, not as a means to an end---getting her to sleep--but as sacred, special time you'll never get back. It's not going to make the exhaustion go away, but it can help w/mindset









Quote:

*Raising a child demands the best that you have to give. It takes personal sacrifice, a phrase we don't often hear much anymore. When you decide to bring a child into the world, you are signing on for a lifetime commitment.

Mothering means being on call twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week....It is the most all-consuming, frustrating, rewarding, and important job you will ever do. May you give it an effort worthy of your children."*
~~Peggy O'Mara, Natural Family Living


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## JessicaS (Nov 18, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AugustineM* 
One last quick thing, sorry. I just reread this post and wanted to add that a lot of night nursing, even if it is only for a minute, works to boost a mother's milk supply. Our milk production is stimulated not by the *length* of a nursing, but the frequency of it. So generally if your baby is waking to nurse only for a minute or two it could be because they are trying to boost your supply. This especially happens between 5-7 months, because of the major 6 month growth spurt. They're smart. They're very very smart, and they know what they need better than we do, often!

This often happens really frequently when a mother works during the day, too.

I agree completely. That six month growth spurt they often nurse like MMMAADDD dd was marathon nursing like crazy during that.

Plus, she might actually be getting more milk than CC realises or she just wants a snack so she can sleep some more.









BM digests very quickly as it is ideal for babies tummies, it is perfectly reasonable and logical that she would be hungry.


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

I think the best nighttime parenting advice I ever got was to take off my watch and kick the clock out of the bedroom. I've lived without a clock in our room for seven years now









Here is an article that sums up, much better, what I was trying to say


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

Ok I'm back.

I need to clarify the "lazy" comment. I in no way meant to implie that mom's who nurse during the night are lazy. I only ment it in my case because I would roll out of bed get her climb back into bed and nurse her so that I could fall back to sleep and not deal with the hypothetical burb, wet bum, or tummy gas, bercause that would require me losing sleep to take the extra few minutes. I was using my breast to pacify DD till the morning when I could deal with it and being neglectful to her needs and discomfort. I'm sure any co-sleeping mom would change a daiper in the middle of the night if that is what their child wanted, I just offered the breast till she took it and settled with it till the next time she woke. That wasn't fair to DD, I screwed up, and I'm fixing it. If DD still wants to nurse and does not fall back asleep after a while I'll bring her to bed and nurse her till we both fall asleep.

What I consider valuable skills may differ for every individual family. I feel that DD learning to transistion and lull into sleep on her own in no distress what soever is a valuable skill, because she learns to listen to her body and meet her bodies needs. I've heard many moms on this bored state that breastfeeding releases horomones which cause the mother and child to relax more often aiding in the transistion into sleep, so in a way you could say it acts like a natural drug which your body produces. IMHO it makes sense to me that if DD can fall asleep on her own without this horomone then when she nurses she should fall asleep that much easier because she is already working on relaxing making it a joint effort on many levels.

I would also like to address the increase nursing to increase production posts. I'm leaking and full most of the day and night(not evening however) and I can feed her and still pump 3-5oz afterwards. Not to mention that she feeds off of on breast per feeding so if she is hungry there is always to other side.

Also the paci has been tried and I'm afraid to post this but she loves her paci sometime but other times she just doesn't care, and then there's time where she doesn't want it at all. If there is anything else you would like clarified , or eplained, or any misconceptions I have that you may want to help me tounderstand I'm open to it.


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## tiffany21074 (Jan 22, 2006)

I think it is great the OP is doing what she feels is best for her family. And I can't believe there are some people harping on her, when she is not crying it out, she is gently and lovingly getting her child back to sleep. i didn't realize there is only one way to parent at night.


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## Thorey (Aug 20, 2005)

lots of life skills are learned starting from birth- sitting up, rolling over- give the woman a break- babies are sponges- compared to the skills learned during the first year of life alone, our adult brains are practically asleep- learning to see and recognizing one's caregiver- learning that one can communicate- when I cry mommy or daddy respond- by bringing the kid to bed with you at night you are encouraging that child to sleep- an invaluable life skill- new moms have a hard time figuring out when their child is hungry, how often to feed- she's just looking for encouragement and advice- when she comes here she should know she will be encouraged to feed the child every time she stirs. IMO that's not the best advice. But go ahead censor me.


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## artemis80 (Sep 8, 2006)

In my opinion, not that anyone asked







, the OP's technique is well within the bounds of acceptable. She is NOT crying it out, she is nursing her baby when she wakes at night, and she seems to be very in tune with *her* child's development and needs. We might quibble over whether the baby should stay in the family bed, but I believe this is a call for each family to make.


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

Quote:

I think it is great the OP is doing what she feels is best for her family. And I can't believe there are some people harping on her, when she is not crying it out, she is gently and lovingly getting her child back to sleep. i didn't realize there is only one way to parent at night.
I don't see any harping, nor do I see anyone saying there is only one way to do something. Please remember that if anyone has an issue with how a thread is progressing, or if you see a post that is in violation of the MDC User Agreement, please report it.


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## AugustineM (Mar 21, 2005)

I think most of us have just stated what we know from experience, and from what we have learned through research. Oh, and some people were ticked about the lazy comment.

CC -- FWIW I don't change DD's diaper at night anymore unless she poops, which is very rare.


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AugustineM* 
I think most of us have just stated what we know from experience, and from what we have learned through research. Oh, and some people were ticked about the lazy comment.

CC -- FWIW I don't change DD's diaper at night anymore unless she poops, which is very rare.

But if it was making her uncomfortable and she wanted it changed I'm sure you wouldn't force her to settle on the boob, instead you would change her then offer her your breast again. Pee is sterile so I had no problem justifying that "it won't hurt her" but sometimes it does make her very uncomfortable.

Oh yeah night 5
So she took her 20 minute nap arround 7:00, then at 10:00 we started to relax and cuddle togather, she was out by 10:30. I however got sick yesterday so I just brought her to bed once she woke up and collapsed on the pillow. When I woke up if she was there sleeping in bed I moved her back to her cradle. I think she got up 3 times.

I enjoy our cudddle/relaxing time before sleeping or when she wakes up. There have been times when DH has tried to help put her back to sleep and they obviously aren't enjoying it even if they are making progress towards the ultimate goal of sleep, so I step in and do it myself.

Oh and I forgot to address the time thing. Unfortunatly one of us is working everyday of the week and need the alarm clock. When I wake if it is close enough to when we normally get up I don't concern myself with going back to sleep for 20 minutes because I just end up more tired. So I glance at the clock when getting DD from the cradle(it's kinda hard to miss anyways). During the day I know whta time according to what tv show is on in the background







:

But I'm running out of time for my shower so I have to wrap this up. Thanks to all the supportive mommas, and thanks for the concern from all the ones who aren't


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chronic Chrissy* 

I need to clarify the "lazy" comment. I in no way meant to implie that mom's who nurse during the night are lazy. I only ment it in my case because I would roll out of bed get her climb back into bed and nurse her so that I could fall back to sleep and not deal with the hypothetical burb, wet bum, or tummy gas, bercause that would require me losing sleep to take the extra few minutes.

Ok, that makes sense. But there is still a big difference in attending to your daughter's _needs_, and teaching her "valuable life skills". Not being lazy and changing a diaper in the middle of the night because your baby is uncomfortable is not teaching them "valuable life skills". Trying to avoid nursing to sleep at night without CIO to teach "valuable life skills" is unrealistic. I get the impression from this post that the latter is what you are trying to achieve.

I am all for trying to resettle my daughter back to sleep without nursing, IF IT WORKS, as we are going through something similar. But I don't view learning to not nurse to sleep at night as a valuable life skill. It's normal. Especially at 5 months old. And even if she does only nurse for a second and fall asleep, this helps our supply, and I know you've had weight gain issues, so you might want to reconsider restricting her nursing for a while.


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *North_Of_60* 
And even if she does only nurse for a second and fall asleep, this helps our supply, and I know you've had weight gain issues, so you might want to reconsider restricting her nursing for a while.


Thank you for your concern about DDs weight. I just thought I'd let everyone know because I haven't posted it lately, DD is at 11lbs 5oz
and according to our Dr. doing great. The difference is that I keep offering the breast even when she didn't want it till she took it. I was abusing my breast as a pacifier in the literal sense not the rubber pacifier sense.

I am glad that I kinda straitened out the lazy issue though, I really ment no offense.


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chronic Chrissy* 
I was abusing my breast as a pacifier in the literal sense not the rubber pacifier sense.

There is no such thing. If they didn't want it, they wouldn't take it. You can't make them, and you can't abuse it.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *North_Of_60* 
There is no such thing. If they didn't want it, they wouldn't take it. You can't make them, and you can't abuse it.









:

-Angela


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## gatsbyjc (Oct 27, 2006)

*Chronic*, I'm sorry you are receiving some of these replies. I'm very new to this board, but it seems that constructive criticiscm is oft time replaced by repeating dogmatic mantras in the face of a mother who is simply trying to find out the parenting solution that meets their family's needs.

Regardless, your experiences really resonate with me. I'm not trying to "teach" or "train" my daughter anything, but I do feel that it is in her best interest to have several long sleep intervals each night. I also began by simply offering the breast, simply to find her awaking within ten minutes. Why? Because she needed burping, diaper, soothing, a change of clothes, or a dozen other things. When we adjusted our nighttime parenting to include my husband in many of the wake-ups, dd's needs were met sooner than if I had just grabbed her in to bed and nursed. We lovingly attend her when she needs us, keeping her nearby all night long. We also lovingly refuse to interrupt her sleep when she makes "sleep noises." My baby (like yours, it sounds), makes various noises in her sleep. Where I was once grabbing her up at the first peep, I now listen for a moment, or walk over and observe her. Often her body is relaxed, but she is just talking in her sleep. Why would I wake her? After a few weeks, my body has learned the difference. In fact, my milk lets down when she is really awakening to eat.

My dd is sleeping fabulously. She is more rested during the day, less fussy in the evenings, growing wonderfully, and really thriving. We never CIO, we just parented during the nights in the only way we knew how.

So much of this depends on your child's personality. My dd is easily overstimulated, so offering the breast was waking her up fully and winding her up into an awake and active state. Doing that 10+ times each night was destroying her sleep. However, some babies do wonderfully with frequent night nursings as they are soothed back into sleep. It sounds like you know your baby and are doing the best you can with the tools you have.


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *North_Of_60* 
There is no such thing. If they didn't want it, they wouldn't take it. You can't make them, and you can't abuse it.

I'm trying to think of how to put this without it being misinterperted...







:







:







:
I've seen babies who love their bottle much like DD loves the breast. Say I bottle fed, and I kept a warm bottle in a therma bag beside the bed because I know that a warm bottle always puts her to sleep. Say she woke up the same as she does now needing to be changed or burped, but everytime I bring her to bed snuggle her and pop the warm bottle in her mouth neglecting her needs in the same way I have been. Would I not be abusing the bottle? Why is it different for the boob? I'm providing comfort, nourishment, relaxation, and a questionable form of bonding.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Questionable form of bonding?


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## NotTheOnlyOne (Oct 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
Questionable form of bonding?

I assume she was talking about the bottle being the questionable form of bonding?


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Oh, OK...yes, I see that. That's why I asked.







Chrissy, I think you can nurse your DD AND STILL burp her & change her, etc...no? It doesn't have to be either/or.


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

I don't like to state that bottle feeding is a form of bonding even though I do believe it is because many moms here state that there are many other ways to bond besides bottle feeding especially when it is presented as a way for Dad to bond. I'm just trying not to step on anymore toes.


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chronic Chrissy* 
I'm trying to think of how to put this without it being misinterperted...







:







:







:
I've seen babies who love their bottle much like DD loves the breast. Say I bottle fed, and I kept a warm bottle in a therma bag beside the bed because I know that a warm bottle always puts her to sleep. Say she woke up the same as she does now needing to be changed or burped, but everytime I bring her to bed snuggle her and pop the warm bottle in her mouth neglecting her needs in the same way I have been. Would I not be abusing the bottle? Why is it different for the boob? I'm providing comfort, nourishment, relaxation, and a questionable form of bonding.

I have never been able to force a bottle on my daughter anymore then I've been able to force the boob.

I'm confused. Are you waking up with your daughter to change her diaper and burp her, or to teach her a different way to sleep without being nursed? As far as I'm concerned the two are entirely different.


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
Oh, OK...yes, I see that. That's why I asked.







Chrissy, I think you can nurse your DD AND STILL burp her & change her, etc...no? It doesn't have to be either/or.

I don't disagree but when I do burp her or change her and she falls asleep afterwards as I said she does in past posts she obviously doesn't need/want to nurse. If she doesn't fall back asleep after burping or changing I have stated that I do take her to bed and nurse.


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *North_Of_60* 
I have never been able to force a bottle on my daughter anymore then I've been able to force the boob.

I'm confused. Are you waking up with your daughter to change her diaper and burp her, or to teach her a different way to sleep without being nursed? As far as I'm concerned the two are entirely different.

I am waking with DD to meet her needs which I wasn't doing in the past by JUST nursing her back to sleep, often I find that she doesn't need to nurse everytime she wakes because she falls back asleep once I burp her change her or soothe her.


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chronic Chrissy* 
I am waking with DD to meet her needs which I wasn't doing in the past by JUST nursing her back to sleep

I'm still confused.







:

This comment is what I'm talking about:

Quote:

The third she woke up and started to stir, *I left her thinking I would pick her up as soon as the fussy turned to crying* and then it was quiet. If I had been lazy like before to save the extra few minutes to go back to sleep *I would have nursed her 5 times last night in bed, instead it was only 2 and she's figuring out valuable skills at 5 months* without CIO.

Ok here's my thing. You make a post about sleep issues (which I can relate to at the moment - see my other posts in this thread) where you make a statement about waking less and thus, learning valuable life skills. You then go on to say that the reason you are trying to not nurse at night is to become attuned to her other needs (?), yet the reason she only woke twice instead of 5 times is because she fussed herself back to sleep, not because you got up and burped her.

The reason I am making this point is because I am in exactly the same position (trying get longer stretches of sleep), but for my own reasons, not because I think it is something that she needs to "learn". I also don't think nursing her to sleep is abusing my breasts as a pacifier, it is doing what works (and it does).

I only mention this because projecting unrealistic ideals on our children only sets us up for disappointment. If you are expecting to get her to sleep longer and it doesn't work, it will be a reflection on your "method". It's not. Your baby is young, and young babies nurse to sleep and during the night. That's the way they are.


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## anarchamama (Mar 4, 2005)

[QUOTEI also don't think nursing her to sleep is abusing my breasts as a pacifier, it is doing what works (and it does).

.[/QUOTE]

Oh come on! Unless some of you ladies out there are doing a whole lotta speed, we've all (haven't we? is it just me?) kept offering the breast some time when you know something else was called for. I'm guilty of doing it, just nursing over and over cause I'm 3/4 asleep untill I finally wake up enough to realize there is some other issue. Or (and this worked much better with my first) just encouraging him to nurse int he morning so I could get a bit more sleep, when I knew he'de RATHER be getting up and playing but would settle for nursing a bit longer.......


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *North_Of_60* 
I'm still confused.







:

This comment is what I'm talking about:

Ok here's my thing. You make a post about sleep issues (which I can relate to at the moment - see my other posts in this thread) where you make a statement about waking less and thus, learning valuable life skills. You then go on to say that the reason you are trying to not nurse at night is to become attuned to her other needs (?), yet the reason she only woke twice instead of 5 times is because she fussed herself back to sleep, not because you got up and burped her.

The reason I am making this point is because I am in exactly the same position (trying get longer stretches of sleep), but for my own reasons, not because I think it is something that she needs to "learn". I also don't think nursing her to sleep is abusing my breasts as a pacifier, it is doing what works (and it does).

I only mention this because projecting unrealistic ideals on our children only sets us up for disappointment. If you are expecting to get her to sleep longer and it doesn't work, it will be a reflection on your "method". It's not. Your baby is young, and young babies nurse to sleep and during the night. That's the way they are.

She fussed for probably 3 minutes only once, the other time I soothed her and the other she had a burp. I amn ok with nursing 2,3 times a night and with her waking 5+times a night because I can tend to her the other 3+times and go back to bed and we(DH and I sleep so crappy with her in the bed and it effects our day to day life and the quality of which we provide for DD) get quality sleep. I'm also under the impression that babys make noises(what I identified as fussy) in their sleep at night. I didn't get up and see for the few minutes she did fuss so I can't even tell you if her eyes were open and she was actually awake.

I'm working on DD sleep habit not because I think it is directly good for her. We are being selfish because the sleep deprivation is effecting our home life, job, health, and overall pleasentness towards everyone including DD. The past few days we have been waking way more rested, are more productive, and enjoy spending time with eachother more because we want to play not just DD. There is less "why don't you just take a nap so we can-blank-" and more of following her ques.

In MY case I was abusing my breasts as a pacifier.

I don't think our expectationsare unrealistic because we have already met our goal pretty consistanly becausethe goal was a happier healthier family as a result of teeking our nighttime parenting.And if it doesn't work all the time we have to accept that each day different things take place that we can't control and our method isn't a solution it just assists with a smoother night.


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *anarchamama* 
Oh come on! Unless some of you ladies out there are doing a whole lotta speed, we've all (haven't we? is it just me?) kept offering the breast some time when you know something else was called for. I'm guilty of doing it, just nursing over and over cause I'm 3/4 asleep untill I finally wake up enough to realize there is some other issue. Or (and this worked much better with my first) just encouraging him to nurse int he morning so I could get a bit more sleep, when I knew he'de RATHER be getting up and playing but would settle for nursing a bit longer.......

Maybe we're unique, but I've never been able to force the breast on her if she wanted something else.


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## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

CC- do you think you might have an overactive letdown? if you think so, then only switch sides every four hours. it might help w/ the gassiness, slow weight gain, etc.

i totally get you. ds1 nursed for comfort at night. he was about your dd's size.







ds2 is totally different. he nurses to eat at night. i cant tell you how many times i was too lazy (exhausted) to see what was really wrong and he spit up all over the bed. not saying others are lazy but i KNOW when he needs to burp and sometimes i'm so tired i try to feed him anyway! then spit up every where!

two comments..i would find a diaper that does not need changing at night. what are you going to do when she outgrows the cradle?


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## NotTheOnlyOne (Oct 23, 2006)

[/QUOTE] Oh come on! Unless some of you ladies out there are doing a whole lotta speed, we've all (haven't we? is it just me?) kept offering the breast some time when you know something else was called for. I'm guilty of doing it, just nursing over and over cause I'm 3/4 asleep untill I finally wake up enough to realize there is some other issue. Or (and this worked much better with my first) just encouraging him to nurse int he morning so I could get a bit more sleep, when I knew he'de RATHER be getting up and playing but would settle for nursing a bit longer.......[/QUOTE]

absolutely!! I do it all the time and in the morning I find the reason for his constant stirring was a poopy diaper. This has happened at least twice. Its SOOOOOOooooo much easier at that time of night to just stick a boob in his mouth, than to wake all the way up and change him.


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
CC- do you think you might have an overactive letdown? if you think so, then only switch sides every four hours. it might help w/ the gassiness, slow weight gain, etc.

i totally get you. ds1 nursed for comfort at night. he was about your dd's size.







ds2 is totally different. he nurses to eat at night. i cant tell you how many times i was too lazy (exhausted) to see what was really wrong and he spit up all over the bed. not saying others are lazy but i KNOW when he needs to burp and sometimes i'm so tired i try to feed him anyway! then spit up every where!

two comments..i would find a diaper that does not need changing at night. what are you going to do when she outgrows the cradle?

I have tons of milk that's another reason why I went back on the pill. I would wake up in puddles, now with the pill I'm a little damp. DD doesn't get very gassy a burp here and there the occasional fart. And she only eats about every 3-4 hours during the day anyways. Oh and I totally get the feed til they puke thing, it doesn't happen so much any more but in the past we had a phase where I gave up changing the sheets everyday and just started sleeping on towels







The daiper thing happens about once a week, and is rarely the cause but it serves as a good example. She usually just gets changed in the morning because she rarely poops at night but when she does she wants it taken care of.

Out gowing the cradle?.......I wish my last thread was still open because it discribed our housing situation and akward building of a room around furniture that can't be removed







The cradle thing has been on my mind and that might subconsciously be another reason the have some predictability at night because there is the possiblity of not being able to have her in our room. The only other thing I can think of is building our own transition crib out of a large dog bed idea on a platform with higher rails. But then we would have to put it in the middle of the bedroom and it would block access to our dressers. Or we hold off on the cradle till spring take out our window and part of the wall and take our furniture out to make room for the crib but then there isn't room anywhere else in the house for my dresser and no where else to put my clothes. Our little house is exploding with stuff piled everywhere.

The most practicle thing would be to put couch in her room and move her crib to the living room. Then we are as close as can be, DD is safe, and I can sleep on the couch while we transistion her into the crib at night and.......

I just don't know, we'll deal with that bridge when it comes time to cross it.

Oh and the weight gain thing. I'm quite comfident that she will haveeasdily doubled her weight by 6 months so it really isn't a concern anymore and really wasn't to begin with. I just had a stupid Public Health Nurse that freaked me out.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chronic Chrissy* 
She fussed for probably 3 minutes only once, the other time I soothed her and the other she had a burp.

Fussing to sleep is not okay. It's CIO.

-Angela


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## BetsyNY (Jul 1, 2005)

Fussing before sleeping isn't CIO.


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## veganf (Dec 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *georgia* 
I'm concerned with this statement. Would you be willing to clarify, because I'm confused. I'm not quite sure what *skills* a five month old could possibly be learning in the scenario you'd described. Coping? Did you _mean_ to imply that those of us who nurse babies to sleep, with babies next to us, are lazy? If so, I'd prefer to be called "relaxed."









I do it because I am lazy, or I WANT to be lazy during the night. It's WAY easier than getting up and sitting in a rocker like I did with my first baby, waiting until he fell asleep nursing or rocking, then carefully getting back into bed. I get FAR more sleep just nursing my baby back to sleep in the early months, but less as they become more mobile and distractable.

And the "skills" my current 4 month old has learned is that he can be alone falling asleep happily and wake up happily and wait for me, since I hold him most of the day and fulfill his needs throughout the day as immediately as possible, so therefore he trusts that I will come and get him in a timely manner and there is no need to become upset. I think that trust is healthy and important, and if it is a type of independence, fine. I'm not in a hurry to make him independent, but I do want him to be flexible and happy.

I think there is room for a little of both types of nighttime parenting while still being a "good" parent (both nursing to sleep and encouraging some self-soothing). And I'd like to argue that it becomes a bit of a necessity in most cases when parenting multiple young children.


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## veganf (Dec 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Fussing to sleep is not okay. It's CIO.

-Angela

No, it is not. I get grumpy sometimes before going to sleep, but it doesn't mean I'm bawling my eyes out, I'm just snappy and short-tempered. A baby can make quiet little fussy noises for a few moments and then go to sleep and that is most definitely not CIO. My current baby will often refuse holding and nursing, protesting by crying and crying in my arms...but if I set him down he fusses and calms down and goes to sleep. I think sometimes my presence is in itself overstimulating.


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *veganf* 
I do it because I am lazy, or I WANT to be lazy during the night. It's WAY easier than getting up and sitting in a rocker like I did with my first baby, waiting until he fell asleep nursing or rocking, then carefully getting back into bed. I get FAR more sleep just nursing my baby back to sleep in the early months, but less as they become more mobile and distractable.

I assure you I mean no offense in this, and hope you take none.
We don't sleep good at all with DD in the bed and we find that less sleep of better quality works better with our family than more sleep of a lighter level.

I would like to point out also that fussy means different things to different people. A few low key wimpers is not cry it out. Babies make noises while they sleep all the time and if you pick them up everytime then chances are you are waking them up more than you are putting them back to sleep


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

.....coming to this late but on the theme of not offering the breast at every stirring -

I can totally relate to CC talking about abusing her breasts as a pacifier; ec often has me going down another road of options before going to the breast.

Since I have been ecing I realise that I may have been offering the breast to my other three children at times when they just wanted to wee; both during the day and the night. I think that I may have misinterpreted some of their signs and read 'milk' when maybe it wasn't that at all.

I am not saying that you can force a nipple on a baby who doesn't want it but that sometimes they will take it because it makes them feel good and that takes the edge off the source of their initial discomfort/reason for waking. This dd sometimes wakes to do a wee (night or day) then falls straight back to sleep without feeding despite me offering and she's only 3 months. This is not to say that she doesn't have marathon feedings at various times duringthe day but just that sometimes its wee not milk that she wants.

Just another perspective

carry on.......


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

Night #6

Eureka I think we've found our groove. Last nights sleep was absolutly horrible, but only because I'm sick as a dog and worn out with DH 12 hr shifts. Anyways we missed DD 7:30 nap last night, With me sick and slow I just lost the time and before I knew it it was 8:30 and to late to try and put her down. By 9:30 she couldn't keep her eyes open so I moved her to the cradle. At 10:00 she woke up and I thought "oh no, now I need to wait atleast an hour before she's ready to go to sleep again, and all I want is to crash." So I sat in the rocking chair with her and caught up on some Stephen King togather. 10:17 I look down and she is out. So I slip her into her cradle and crash for what little sleep I got. She didn't wke up till 4:00am to nurse on both sides and fell right back asleep. So I think we are going to try this arrangment and see how it goes for a few nights, my fingers are crossed but I am prepared for it to just be a fluke.


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Be careful. You might end up night weaning a 5 month old baby.


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hoopin' Mama* 
Be careful. You might end up night weaning a 5 month old baby.

I think that's what she wants, isn't it (sleeping through the nght)?


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *North_Of_60* 
I think that's what she wants, isn't it (sleeping through the nght)?

EEK!!

That's a very, very bad idea.


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

My goal is not to nightwean. North I thought you would actually be one who reads the whole story which you obviously haven't. My goal is not for DD to sleep through the night(although it is nice when she does), I am fine with DD waking to nurse twice in our bed, and to get up as many more times as I need to tend to her per night. My original issue was DD sleeping in our bed all night instead of a few hours if we happen to doze off togather. If she wants to nurse for a few minutes and go back to sleep after I change her or burp her that's ok, so long as she is actually nursing(eating) and she goes to sleep again after(this is our choice after all). I would also like to point out that from day 1 to about 3.5 months DD was sleeping through the night, except for one nursing session early early morning. 10-4am is only 6 hours which isn't unusual for her either because she cluster feeds at different points throughout the day. There are also times during the day where I frequently offer and she chooses to go for 4-6 hours without feeding. Next I predict North will point out that we have had weight issues in the past, since she has in other posts, but really there was no issue I had concerns about her weight yes, on the advice of a public healh nurse, but my doctor, as well as many moms here pointed out that someone has to be at the bottom for others to be at the top, it didn't mean there was anything wrong. Weight isn't always a sign of health. If DD had woken up last night and wanted to nurse I would have since I was up anyways. Don't tell DH this but I wanted her to get up so I could turn on the TV for a bit since sleep was next to impossible last night, I actually got up and poked at her(kindly) a few times but she was happily sleeping. Today she was up at 9am instead of 11 or 12, she has needed less naps and is far less cranky. I've been spending the last 2 hours on the floor with her doing laundry while she plays, instead of her wanting to be held every 15 minutes. Now she is laughing at the dogs. Also I haven't seen DH this happy and rested since she was born. He's singing in the shower again(not well I might add), and he HATES this time of year. It seems like we are all benifiting from following DD's lead. After all if she was really tired at 7:30 last night she would have had us put her to sleep then, and when she was tired we did, she does get everything she wants and asksfor after all.


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chronic Chrissy* 
Next I predict North will point out that we have had weight issues in the past, since she has in other posts

Only because I was concerned for your supply because you only nursed 4-6 times per day. I don't reply to posts I don't care about.


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

You got spunk North, I'll give you that. I have a feeling our friendly battles will contiue for some time. Plus you help pry the whole story out and make me fill in the blanks that I forget matter.








:







:







:

Hope DD doesn't catch this cold because if I'm this miserable and I know what's going on I can only imagine the poor girls first cold. I cough and she coughs back at me and laughs, I keep saying "It won't be so funny once you learn what a real cough is" then she just coughs and laughs some more.

Any one have any idea how my being sick affects DD since I'm breast feeding? Is she protected through my milk and antibodies because I'm siick right now or would she be just as protected if I wasn't? I should really start a new thread about this.


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## veganf (Dec 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hoopin' Mama* 
Be careful. You might end up night weaning a 5 month old baby.

Which wouldn't be a bad thing necessarily. Sure, I deliberately keep my kids night-nursing for 6 months because IMO it guards against SIDS, but otherwise I'd probably be happy about that scenario!


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

The way I see it, if DD needs her night nursing she'll ask for it(boy will she ever) and if she doesn't then she'll just be happy sleeping. I'm not forcing anything on her, she's leading the way. Plus she hasn't lead us wrong yet.








:
Great now my keyboard is covered in snot while DD is chewing on the mouse. Mom better hurry up with the chicken soup!


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *veganf* 
Which wouldn't be a bad thing necessarily. Sure, I deliberately keep my kids night-nursing for 6 months because IMO it guards against SIDS, but otherwise I'd probably be happy about that scenario!


Really? I guess I thought mama-led nightweaning was not a healthy move for a baby that age.
My boy is a toddler now, maybe I am not remembering that age well enough? I just don't picture a 5m baby not night nursing









I remember wanting to laugh hysterically when people asked if he was sleeping through the night at that age.

Hey CC, turn your clock to face the wall. My friend tells me it helps a lot. You'll still hear the alarm.


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hoopin' Mama* 

I remember wanting to laugh hysterically when people asked if he was sleeping through the night at that age.

I still laugh hysterically when people ask me that, and she's 9 months old!







Though she did do a 4 hour stretch last night. I can't remember the last time she slept 4 hours. Patience really does pay off!


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

Night #7
We are falling apart! DD took her 7:30 nap then me and DH had a talk about helping me out since I'm sick, AF is here, and oh so tired. So 10 rolls around and it is time for us to start relaxing to be asleep by 10:30(my only implimented time/schedual). DH says she's not tired he'll wait till 10:30-11 and he'll put her to sleep. Well 10:20 rolled around and DD is getting cranky and DH says he's ready for bed in a few minutes. HELLO DD is wide awake and he said he'd put her down







: I make a comment he stays up while I try to relax her. She is screaming bloody murder because she is over tired and her one constant has been altered. finally 11 rollsaround and she's asleep. I put her down in her cradle and she is wide awake. I stand there in the bedroom rocking her and DH insists I just take her top bed andwon't listn when I tell him she's past that point, but I do anyways. 30 minutes later she isstill awake and crying, what a waste of time. so I get up and rock her 10 minutes and she is out, finally.I can't even remember how many times she was up last night, she spent most of it in our bed anyways because she would wake up screaming bloody murder. I remember one point at 2 when she would only sleep sitting on my stomach proped up on my knees, I tried so hard to stay awake because if she rolled it would be right of my legs and off the bed. I closed my eyes 2 seconds and woke up 2 hours later, so sore, but she is sleeping. I go to put her in the cradle and because all the pressure has been on my heels walking is so difficult, then I trip over Angel twisting as I fall off of that damn step up and hit the floor on my back, of course DD wakes up. Now the poor girl is sick, coughing and sneezing with a fever, which explains last night. I'm ready to crawlin a grave and die, but I guess that would mean taking DD withh me. Anyways that means our nights are on hold and this thread will soon die til I start over again at night #1.


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## anarchamama (Mar 4, 2005)

Hey Chrissy,

I know now that dd is sick it will suck for a few days, try putting her to sleep upright, that will help her congestion drain (like raise your matress up at the top or have her sleep in her carseat). But is it possible she is just going to bed to late? I cna't remember when ds1 started on a more regular schedule, but ds 2 just feel right into the 8 oclock bedtime of big brother and I think slept better for it. My 5 months they are starting to sort out heri days and nights, and its getting dark here at like 4 ocklock. I don't know what your work schedule is like. But is it possible she is ready to go down for the night at that 7:30-8 ocklock nap? You might try just moving bedtime back by 30 min or so a day and see if that helps. I find with my kids they have to be awake for x hours before bed but otherwise sleep begets more sleep. Like the earlier they go to bed the longer and later they sleep. Just a thought.


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## 425lisamarie (Mar 4, 2005)

I'm skimming through all of this...

I sure wish there was a way to just make mothers realize the waste of time it is to worry so much about sleep!!! OH my freaking word time would have gone by so slow I would have just died if I made a sleep log and obsessed my life away about baby sleep!!


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Good point by lisamarie!







(My Dad wanted to name me that, lol...)


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## babygrant (Mar 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *425lisamarie* 
I'm skimming through all of this...

I sure wish there was a way to just make mothers realize the waste of time it is to worry so much about sleep!!! OH my freaking word time would have gone by so slow I would have just died if I made a sleep log and obsessed my life away about baby sleep!!

uhhhhhhh huh me too.


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## Pandora114 (Apr 21, 2005)

Yeah I dont really see why one really is obsessing over it anyway.

Babies will sleep when they sleep, There are three things you have NO control over when it comes to babies/children.

1: Weather they eat
2: Weather they go to the bathroom
3: Weather they sleep.

You can't force a child do do ANY Of those three things, no matter what the age. Once you realize this, and accept this fact of life, you'll feel the amount of stress on your shoulders lift.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pandora114* 
Yeah I dont really see why one really is obsessing over it anyway.

Babies will sleep when they sleep, There are three things you have NO control over when it comes to babies/children.

1: Weather they eat
2: Weather they go to the bathroom
3: Weather they sleep.

You can't force a child do do ANY Of those three things, no matter what the age. Once you realize this, and accept this fact of life, you'll feel the amount of stress on your shoulders lift.









:

I need a bumper sticker with that on it....

-Angela


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## jennybean0722 (Jun 19, 2006)

Wow, I never realized people would get so worked up on this.

I guess what I was trying to say is: 1) you know your baby the best; 2) nurse when he needs to, even if it is for comfort; 3) identify those times where your husband can step in and cuddle (if you want, and if you feel you need a break). This isn't CIO. For us, the 'husband' part has only happened two or three times now, and it usually included me just a few feet away. Only once did DH go in the other room b/c the baby had just nursed a TON, was finished, pooped his pants, and mom needed some sleep, even if only for 15 minutes....

Chronic, everyone has excellent advice. Throw the clock away, the books away. The best advice I ever received was "you figure it out; you are expert on your child."

Cheers and hugs,
Jenny


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## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

moms worry about sleep b/c they are exhausted..trying to figure out the best arrangement


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## gabysmom617 (Nov 26, 2005)

Just skimming through:

1)Please PLEASE stop this silly blog, forget about the time, point the clocks to the wall! Your child is FIVE. MONTHS. OLD. Unless you are trying to wean her, (and you are, if you are restricting her nursings at night, PLUS you work so you are away from her during the day) you can pretty much expect not to have a schedule for QUITE SOME TIME.

2) If she is sick, she is going to want to, and NEEDS to nurse more. (nak) her little body desperately needs those antibodies that she gets from nursing directly from the tap. if you deny her this, you may be delaying her getting well.

3) We are mothers. No one ever said our jobs were easy. Oh sure, we come here to get tips and tricks to lighten the load here and there along the way. but there are no tips or tricks when it comes to a FIVE MONTH OLD and sleep....as u can see, even when you don't nurse her, you still are not getting much sleep. even if you wean her, you still won't get much sleep. it is in her nature/normal/natural for her to wake often during the night. you might as well nurse her so she will be healthy, because even if you don't nurse her, you obviously still won't get any more sleep. You will have good nights, and bad nights, nights when she sleeps well, and nights when she won't sleep so well, regardless of if you nurse her through the night, restrict her nursings, or wean her completely. Such is the way with FIVE MONTH OLD infants!!


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

aarrrrrrrrrrggggggggggg!

I come her to vent rant and blow off steam not to mention to tell you the whole the moving her back to the cradle thing till we're done being sick. I AM NOT RESTRICTING HER NIGHT NURSING. And the clock thing there are so many things to go with this like the clock is my.....my way of finding the bed in the dark(I know there is a word for it but I can't think), also I've done the clock thing my whole life, like I said if it is early enough I'll get up with her. Plus you know whe you close your eyes for 2 seconds and hours are gone? I wouldn't be able to find the bed if it weren't for the clock. And DD did have a schedual and does(well not since she is sick) it just slightly moved and altered over time. I can set my clock(sorry again) plus or minus 15 minutes by all her naps except for her 7:30, no 8:30, no evening nap(yes that works). When we do put her down for that nap she is the one who wakes up, if she went ot bed at 7:30 great but she doesn't and I can't change it. Plus he sleeps in till 11-12(noon) for me, and when DH is home when I work for 3-4 hours(not that long most of the time and mon and tues I don't even go in lately) She wake for an hour with DH then sleeps for another 3 hours. And I am not obsessing, you want to know what I had for dinner last tuesday? Spaghetti. What time I started cooking 4:28, What time I was done? 5:11. What time we actually ate? 5:27. When we were done? 6:04. The dishes hit the sink? 6:21. THAT'S CHRISSY, THAT'S ME, IT'S WHAT I DO. I spend my few days off and time to myself connecting myself with other moms because in reality I don't really know any around here and finding the time to interact in mom groups is hard, and none of them get me anyways. Whether it's because I'm too AP, or not enough, or too young, or they don't like our age difference when they find out my DH age, or they don't like that I have my life as figured out as I do so early. I don't fit their cliques. So I come here between loads of laundry, while eating a meal, or while DD sleeps in my lap. This site is the only thing I do really besides house work, work work, and being a Mommy. Right now she is napping in her jumperoo becuase she can actually breath in there and I have a few moments to catch up. So please keep the cold suggestions coming beacause everytime I get to close my eyes she wakes up 5 minutes later, so I'll wait till DH gets home just for him to need my help to do everything anyways. Being a mom IS hard, but it doesn't always have to be as hard as it is, sometimes simple solutions go a long way for everyone, at least till you get sick.


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## gabysmom617 (Nov 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chronic Chrissy* 
Being a mom IS hard, but it doesn't always have to be as hard as it is, sometimes simple solutions go a long way for everyone, at least till you get sick.

But really, there are no simple solutions to moms getting enough sleep at night. Yes, there are some simple solutions that get you through some rough spots in babyhood. But when it comes to getting babe to sleep through the night at FIVE (!!) months old, you are fighting an uphill battle.

Your baby is just too young for it. My baby is 18 months old and he is JUST NOW starting to sleep through the night ever so often, most times he doesn't sometimes he does. You really have to make sure you get down for a nap when she does whenever you possibly can, and grin and bear it. There are times, maybe several days that I can set a watch by his schedule. The next day, something happens, and his schedule is all awry again. Babies do not go by schedules. If she seems to fall into a schedule for sometime, enjoy it while it lasts. It may not be that way tomorrow, or it may be that way for a week. You just never know. (she is only 5 MONTHS OLD.)

I still suggest somehow sleepig with her, cause I feel that's how you are going to get the most sleep. If you get uncomfortable sleeping one way, splurge on lots and lots of pillows . Learn how to position yourself comfortably, (remember when you were pregnant?) put a pillow between your legs, under her (a good firm one), one under your boob. I think you would get more sleep that way, rather than having to pick her up and put her in the bed with you and then having to put her back.

If you get the book "So that's what their for!" there is a picture diagram in there about how mom can prop herself up comfortably with pillows in her bed with baby safely so that she can sleep comfortably and babe can nurse. If sleep is that important right now and you are working, I think finding, maybe even, another spot in the house for just you and your little one to sleep at night so that you both can rest well will be the best thing.


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## Pandora114 (Apr 21, 2005)

oh yeah my newborn has a cold right now too.

I nurse nurse nurse, sleep sitting up w/him on my chest so he can breathe, hold him upright in arms...i so need a mt.....ect....my back hurts...but i deal


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gabysmom617* 
But really, there are no simple solutions to moms getting enough sleep at night. Yes, there are some simple solutions that get you through some rough spots in babyhood. But when it comes to getting babe to sleep through the night at FIVE (!!) months old, you are fighting an uphill battle.

Your baby is just too young for it. My baby is 18 months old and he is JUST NOW starting to sleep through the night ever so often, most times he doesn't sometimes he does. You really have to make sure you get down for a nap when she does whenever you possibly can, and grin and bear it.

I still suggest somehow sleepig with her, cause I feel that's how you are going to get the most sleep. If you get uncomfortable sleeping one way, splurge on lots and lots of pillows . Learn how to position yourself comfortably, (remember when you were pregnant?) put a pillow between your legs, under her (a good firm one), one under your boob. I think you would get more sleep that way, rather than having to pick her up and put her in the bed with you and then having to put her back.


Please go back and read MY posts. I don't want her to sleep through the night.

On another note I slept on my stomach comfortably till 36 weeks pg, and the only thing uncomfortable about my pg was wearing close to tight and feeling like I always had to pee(which is the only thing that actually woke me up at night). If we had money for more pillows we wouldn' be using my SIL hand me downs. Plus it is the needing to movearound freely put that causes the discomfort, unfortunately my pg fat left me 2.5 months ago and took a little extra with it, no extra padding means painful pressure spots. Now I've been reminded that I miss my fat







: . Before I became pg I worked so hard to put on winter fat so I wouldn't freeze then the one year I got a nice layer I turned out to be pg, now I'm smaller that before







: oh well 3 more months of snow till I can get the chill from my bones, and with me sick DH won't even warm me up my because he doesn't want to catch it.

oh and before I get flame DD isn't in the jumperoo anymore, I don't want to be pounced on again.


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

Oh and congrats pandora looks like ou have a full head of hair on that little on.


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## babygrant (Mar 10, 2005)

i dont think anyone is "pouncing" on you. and yes i've read the whole thread. seems like your stress level is a 9 or 10 out of 10 but in actuality if you would just relax and even try what everone is suggesting your stress would be a lot lower.

fwiw my 13 1/2 month old son sleeps with us and nurses at least 4 or 5 times...sometimes up to 7 times.


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## gabysmom617 (Nov 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chronic Chrissy* 
Please go back and read MY posts. I don't want her to sleep through the night.

On another note I slept on my stomach comfortably till 36 weeks pg, and the only thing uncomfortable about my pg was wearing close to tight and feeling like I always had to pee(which is the only thing that actually woke me up at night). If we had money for more pillows we wouldn' be using my SIL hand me downs. Plus it is the needing to movearound freely put that causes the discomfort, unfortunately my pg fat left me 2.5 months ago and took a little extra with it, no extra padding means painful pressure spots. Now I've been reminded that I miss my fat







: . Before I became pg I worked so hard to put on winter fat so I wouldn't freeze then the one year I got a nice layer I turned out to be pg, now I'm smaller that before







: oh well 3 more months of snow till I can get the chill from my bones, and with me sick DH won't even warm me up my because he doesn't want to catch it.

oh and before I get flame DD isn't in the jumperoo anymore, I don't want to be pounced on again.


What I mean to say is that it is not realistic to espect your 5 month old to only nurse 2 or 3 times a night. It's just not. Some nights she may. But don't expect it, and don't be bummed out and stressed out of she needs to nurse many (many!!!) more times many or most nights.

And that theirs absolutely nothing wrong with being a " human pacifier". Babe's nursing on breast just for comfort is not the same as them sucking a bottle or a pacifier for comfort. Babe's have psychological as well has nutritional needs, and at times they seek that out by comfort nursing. You allowing her to suckle at the breast for comfort helps her to meet those psychological needs as well as any nutritional needs she may have.

My 18 month old is going through some kind of a stage (I'm still confused about it..) and he comfort nurses as much as he did when he was about 6 months old. every 1 1/2 to 2 hours he nurses.

Babes get unsure of themselves when they are starting to meet big developmental steps (like maybe crawling, scooting, etc) and they need comfort and reassurance...many times it comes in the form of a nursing marathon, and they comfort nurse a WHOLE LOT. And since she may not get a chance to nurse much during the day, she's probably comfort nursing moreso at night. It's nothing wrong with that.

Have you been to freecycle.com (or was it .org???) before? Perhaps some one there in your area can help you get a few things you need, like pillows and a good mattress or something. If you are pregnant, or just had a baby and nursing through the night, I feel that a good mattress is essential.


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## Pandora114 (Apr 21, 2005)

ALSO: another thing I might add on top of Gabysmom's wonderful post.

Quite often, babes of nursing WOHM's reverse cycle, meaning they dont eat much during the day but power nurse at night to reconnect with their mommas and get the nursy milky goodness strait from the tap.

Your DD is probably trying to reconnect with you in her own little way as well. Making sure you're "still there" Babies dont devellop a sense of "This person is forever" Till at least 18mos-2yrs of age. So your DD is probably trying to reassure herself that you're there....KWIM?

I tell my DD all the time "Babies are people, they have feelings too..."


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *babygrant* 
i dont think anyone is "pouncing" on you. and yes i've read the whole thread. seems like your stress level is a 9 or 10 out of 10 but in actuality if you would just relax and even try what everone is suggesting your stress would be a lot lower.

fwiw my 13 1/2 month old son sleeps with us and nurses at least 4 or 5 times...sometimes up to 7 times.

The last 2 days my stress has been an 11 with little sleep, AF, a nasty cold, DH working 12hour shifts, and the rat race of housework and eating, normally I'm mellow, but things have a way of piling up, you get them out of the way and get over it.

Also it is NORMAL for DD to NURSE 2-3 times a night, always have been. I was being lazzy and continuously offering the breast in bed even when she didn't want it so we could go back to sleep instead of getting up to change a diaper. Nursing took the edge off enough for her to go back to slep just to wake for the same reason and get the same reponse. I'm I deal with the problem then I get 2-3 nursings sessions per night.

I thank you for your reccomendation but MIL bought us a good mattress(pillowtop I might add which is one the other reasons I don't want to co-sleep) before I was pg. I don't want to be immobilized by pillows, I want to roll, sprawl and and get off my bony ass/hip/shoulders, not to mention separate my knees and not be pushed off of, scratched, and have feet jambed in places I fought so hard for her to come out of in the first place.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

CC -

Your posts make me really sad. For you as well as your DD. I wish so much that you could find some joy in cosleeping. Really, truely. It is such an amazing thing, I just wish, from the bottom of my heart, that everyone took as much pleasure from it as I do.

Also, imagine being 5 months old. Can you think of anything on the earth better than snuggeling all night with mama?

I would move heaven & earth to make it work. Is there REALLY no way you could come to enjoy sleeping with her?

No hostility or anger here, I promise. I genuinely feel very badly about this whole situation.

Whatever you ultimately decide to do, I hope the BOTH of you can be at peace with it.

Good luck!


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

Ok I enjoy a nap or an hour or two at night after she legitimately nursing, I don't hate co-sleeping, I do enjoy it but not for the whole night. An hour enjoy take a break stretch out relax, later another hour and repeat.

Oh and I'm only gone a few hours maybe twice a week and when I came back she barely notices me gone she's having a great time playing with DH, not to mention she sleeps for 3 hour while I'm at work so she probably doesn't even know I'm gone.


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## gabysmom617 (Nov 26, 2005)

:







:







:

I don't understand it.

You come in here asking for help, stating how stressed out you are, and when other more seasoned moms come in here to reassure you that everything you are going through is normal and healthy (albeit stressful and tiresome) and there's nothing that you need to stress yourself out trying to change what you are doing, that you are not being "lazy" by whipping that boob out and going back to sleep, and that everything is ok, you push everything everybody says away, and jump on the defensive.

You really want people to come in here and tell you it's ok to nurse your baby 2-3 times a night even if she wants to nurse more, and that it's ok to put her on a schedule and expect her to follow it.

At this point unless it's following along the lines of what you want to hear anyway, and it's not much more any of us here can say to you.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Chrissy,
I really think you are underestimating your importance in her life!


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gabysmom617* 







:







:







:

I don't understand it.

You come in here asking for help, stating how stressed out you are, and when other more seasoned moms come in here to reassure you that everything you are going through is normal and healthy (albeit stressful and tiresome) and there's nothing that you need to stress yourself out trying to change what you are doing, that you are not being "lazy" by whipping that boob out and going back to sleep, and that everything is ok, you push everything everybody says away, and jump on the defensive.

You really want people to come in here and tell you it's ok to nurse your baby 2-3 times a night even if she wants to nurse more, and that it's ok to put her on a schedule and expect her to follow it.

At this point you're only going to hear what you want to hear, and it's not much more any of us here can say to you.

nak lefthand too
I'm getting defensive because others aren't listening. She doesn't want to nurse more, she wants to be burped, sang to and rocked, and sometimes have her bum changed. If she want to nurse then fine but most of the time she falls back asleep. Please read my posts #1,2,3,4,and 5. Not to mention last night when she spent almost allnigh in bed with me and did alot of comfort nursing back to sleep since she is sick and miserable. I haven't denied her at night yet in one of those posts, if anything I denied her her other needs.


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
Chrissy,
I really think you are underestimating your importance in her life!

I'm the most important thing in her life and will be till teenage years(longer hopefully), Daddy isa very close second, and nobody else even comes close to me and daddy.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

You miss the point. And I don't know how to make you see it.


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

I mean no snarkiness in this question but what is the difference between sidecarring a crib, putting a matress on thefloor besiide the bed(both which we can't do anyways), or a nestish thing in the middle of the bed
and
having her in the cradle right at the foot of the bed?

I sheepishly don't understand the difference. Even if I put the cradle next to the bed you would probably not acept that as co-sleeping either.







:


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## gabysmom617 (Nov 26, 2005)

imho, it's all cosleeping. but the whole side cradle thing doesn't seem to be working for *you*. you have to get your sleep, because you woh, and when you find a way to sleep with baby right next to you in bed with you, you can literally whip your boob out go back to sleep. But if you have babe in a the cradle, you have to lift her up, put her in bed, then put her back, that's keeping you awake. Mom's who have successfully coslept, literally cannot tell you how many times their babies nurse at night. They become so efficient at it nursing that they no longer even wake up to do it.

Some moms get just as good at this with babe in a side car/bed/cradle. Some moms do better with a side car with the mattress on the same level with the bed.

The very fact that you are here, complaining of not getting enough sleep would indicate that the whole having to wake up, put babe into the bed, thing is not working well for you personally, because if it was, you would still be getting enough sleep. My babe spent some time in a side car situation, and often times he ended up in the bed with us, and I don't remember how he got there, never realized he was there till first thing in the morning. My husband says I woke up and put him into the bed with us...I was still sleep, and I don't remember. Picking my baby up from the side car and putting him into the bed with us was not a hinderance to me getting enough sleep.

But it seems to be a hinderance to you personally getting enough sleep, that's why I was wondering if you would get more sleep if babe was in the bed with you. When it comes to cosleeping, and making sure you get enough sleep at night, and making sure babe is nursing enough, what works for one mom may not work for another. The side car arrangement worked well for me for quite some time,...it doesn't seem to be working for you.


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## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hoopin' Mama* 
I just don't picture a 5m baby not night nursing









Though it's off-topic, I just wanted to reiterate (for the millionth time!







) that, yes, there are some babes who sleep through the night with absolutely no encouragement from mama and papa. Dd started sleeping through the night, all on her own, at around 2 months old (and after about a month, she was only waking once to nurse). Sometimes--maybe once a week or so? maybe a couple of days in a row here and there?--she wakes in the night to nurse and I always feed her if she wants it. B/c we knew she would be EBF, we expected and were prepared for her to wake frequently--she just didn't, not at 3 months, not at 5 months, not now. I have no idea why. She's gigantic and I have a great milk supply, so it hasn't caused any problems.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chronic Chrissy* 
I mean no snarkiness in this question but what is the difference between sidecarring a crib, putting a matress on thefloor besiide the bed(both which we can't do anyways), or a nestish thing in the middle of the bed and
having her in the cradle right at the foot of the bed?
I sheepishly don't understand the difference. Even if I put the cradle next to the bed you would probably not acept that as co-sleeping either.







:

Honestly, does it matter if anyone "accepts" it as co-sleeping? We had dd in a co-sleeper at first, and now she sleeps in a crib next to our bed. I would love to co-sleep but it didn't work for us at all. We were all exhausted and we are all much, much happier with her next to us but not actually in the bed. Although she is right where we can touch her and respond to her immediately, I don't personally consider this "co-sleeping" (though some people on MDC have told me they do). That's okay with me. I know that I am meeting her needs, however it's labeled.


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## gabysmom617 (Nov 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NYCVeg* 
Though it's off-topic, I just wanted to reiterate (for the millionth time!







) that, yes, there are some babes who sleep through the night with absolutely no encouragement from mama and papa. Dd started sleeping through the night, all on her own, at around 2 months old (and after about a month, she was only waking once to nurse). Sometimes--maybe once a week or so? maybe a couple of days in a row here and there?--she wakes in the night to nurse and I always feed her if she wants it. B/c we knew she would be EBF, we expected and were prepared for her to wake frequently--she just didn't, not at 3 months, not at 5 months, not now. I have no idea why. She's gigantic and I have a great milk supply, so it hasn't caused any problems.


I agree that it can happen naturally, however, imho, it's not a good idea to enforce it, or a restricted feeding schedule on a babe who desires and needs to nurse often. But if it happens naturally, that's totally different.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

If your baby is sick, I hope you'll consider putting this plan on hold and nursing her as often as she's willing to help her body heal.

I'm also intriqued by the idea that you weren't meeting her other needs and just offering the breast to "take the edge off" and pacify her. I bet if she woke up and started fussing, and you changed her diaper and _then_ offered the breast, she'd still take it. I wouldn't automatically assume that just because she has another need, she doesn't need nighttime nursing as well. Night milk has a different composition than day milk, and meets different needs in a baby.


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

See that's the thing, we were having a great week, not just one great night where she only woke once. All the changes that happened to me and DH took place because of many good nights. We can live on little sleep so long as the sleep we get is qualiy sleep. We could sleep 10hours with DD in the bed and not having to get up and still be exhausted the next day. Getting up and loseing sleep isn't a problem having crappy sleep is. Me and DH sleep so Bad with DD in the bed if we sleep at all. Some nights DH wakes himself up as he goes to roll on top of DD then freaksout afterwards because he almost did. The way I see it at least he always wakes up, but he gets so paranoid. And as I've mentioned it is physically a pain. Plus I'm not someone who can sleep through nursing, doze yes, but when she does nurse at night I always wake up for a while aand fall asleep when she is just keeping my nip in her mouth and nort sucking, but that part I'm up for.


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

This reminder is addressed to everyone and no one in particular:

Quote:

Mothering.com is the website of natural family living and advocates natural solutions to parenting challenges. We host discussion of nighttime parenting, loving discipline, natural birth, homebirth, successful breastfeeding, alternative and complementary home remedies, informed consent, and many other topics from a natural point of view. We are not interested, however, in hosting discussions on the merits of crying it out, physical punishment, formula feeding, elective cesarean section, routine infant medical circumcision, or mandatory vaccinations. We do not tolerate any type of discrimination in the discussions, including but not limited to racism, heterosexism, classism, religious bigotry, or discrimination toward the disabled. We will not host discussions that involve explicit sexual references and are cautious about discussions on volatile topics such as abortion, religion, and race. See statement of purpose below.

MDC serves an online community of parents, families, and parent, child and family advocates considering, learning, practicing, and advocating attachment parenting and natural family living. Our discussions concern the real world of mothering and are first and foremost, for support, information, and community. Mothering invites you to read and participate in the discussions. In doing so we ask that you agree to respect and uphold the integrity of this community. Through your direct or indirect participation here you agree to make a personal effort to maintain a comfortable and respectful atmosphere for our guests and members.


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
If your baby is sick, I hope you'll consider putting this plan on hold and nursing her as often as she's willing to help her body heal.

I'm also intriqued by the idea that you weren't meeting her other needs and just offering the breast to "take the edge off" and pacify her. I bet if she woke up and started fussing, and you changed her diaper and _then_ offered the breast, she'd still take it. I wouldn't automatically assume that just because she has another need, she doesn't need nighttime nursing as well. Night milk has a different composition than day milk, and meets different needs in a baby.

Oh she's in the bed with us now till she's better for sure. She's sick, I'll let her in my bed to sleep with me if she's and adult and sick, we might aswell cuddle sinse we are miserable.
and actually I have offered her the breast after burping and changing her, sometime she refuses it other times she has a snack while I stand there then put her backin the cradle, and if she's really hungry I will take her to bed. I don't denie her. I've just been making sure that's what she wants.


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## TigerTail (Dec 22, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *North_Of_60* 
There is no such thing. If they didn't want it, they wouldn't take it. You can't make them, and you can't abuse it.

That.


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NYCVeg* 
Though it's off-topic, I just wanted to reiterate (for the millionth time!








) that, yes, there are some babes who sleep through the night with absolutely no encouragement from mama and papa. Dd started sleeping through the night, all on her own, at around 2 months old (and after about a month, she was only waking once to nurse). Sometimes--maybe once a week or so? maybe a couple of days in a row here and there?--she wakes in the night to nurse and I always feed her if she wants it. B/c we knew she would be EBF, we expected and were prepared for her to wake frequently--she just didn't, not at 3 months, not at 5 months, not now. I have no idea why. She's gigantic and I have a great milk supply, so it hasn't caused any problems..


Ah, I am a mother to a child who is not a huge fan of sleep!!
I know, some do naturally sleep throught the night. I wasn't really referring to a healthy baby doing it naturally. But I know sometimes peds will tell Moms to stop nursing them at night, and I don't think that's right.


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hoopin' Mama* 
Ah, I am a mother to a child who is not a huge fan of sleep!!
I know, some do naturally sleep throught the night. I wasn't really referring to a healthy baby doing it naturally. But I know sometimes peds will tell Moms to stop nursing them at night, and I don't think that's right.

Neither do I. If a babe is hungry he/she shouldn't have to starve.


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## 425lisamarie (Mar 4, 2005)

I think you are just trying to make yourself feel better about whatever it is you are doing. I'm just stupidly confused by all of this hoopla. This is just annoying me to no end.

Start a "have your cake and eat it too" website, aka, I want to be close with my child in all the good ways without doing all the 'dirty' work....which might I add I don't see as dirty work in the first place...but anyhow.

Or why don't you just make a sleep blog on your own website? Plenty of people blog, maybe you'll learn your lesson to get rid of the d-u-m sleep plan if you obsess about writting about it every second of every day for the rest of your life.

I think you're going to make your head spin clear off of your body before any of whatever you think your doing does any good or have any affect at all.

I can't make any sense of anything your talking about anyways. Oh hell I'm not reading this anymore!


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## Lucysmama (Apr 29, 2003)

Lemme see if I have this right:

She has been waking. You go and attend to her. She may need burped, changed, etc. She doesn't "ask" to nurse (by rooting, fussing, etc) so you don't offer, and you both go happily back to sleep. Correct?

I hope you understand that is what is known as "Don't offer, don't refuse." It is a weaning technique. You are night-weaning her by not offering her the breast, whether you realize it or not.

I would think that with her small weight you would be offering as much as you possibly can! Part of keeping a child nursing and not weaning them inadvertantly is *offering* the breast, often. Not just waiting until they are hungry enough to ask for it, or checking to see if other things will pacify them.

What you do is your own decision, but I want you to understand that what you are currently doing is a weaning technique, and you are going to end up with a very young baby who is night or fully weaned, unless you start OFFERING the breast a lot more. Please don't blow me off here! I see so many moms saying what you are - baby doesn't ask very often, seems to be ok with it, has a low-for-age weight, and then "weans themself" at 8 months old. Really, the mother has been weaning them unknowingly with don't offer/don't refuse. Be careful there!


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## gabysmom617 (Nov 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucysmama* 
Lemme see if I have this right:

She has been waking. You go and attend to her. She may need burped, changed, etc. She doesn't "ask" to nurse (by rooting, fussing, etc) so you don't offer, and you both go happily back to sleep. Correct?

I hope you understand that is what is known as "Don't offer, don't refuse." It is a weaning technique. You are night-weaning her by not offering her the breast, whether you realize it or not.

I would think that with her small weight you would be offering as much as you possibly can! Part of keeping a child nursing and not weaning them inadvertantly is *offering* the breast, often. Not just waiting until they are hungry enough to ask for it, or checking to see if other things will pacify them.

What you do is your own decision, but I want you to understand that what you are currently doing is a weaning technique, and you are going to end up with a very young baby who is night or fully weaned, unless you start OFFERING the breast a lot more. Please don't blow me off here! I see so many moms saying what you are - baby doesn't ask very often, seems to be ok with it, has a low-for-age weight, and then "weans themself" at 8 months old. Really, the mother has been weaning them unknowingly with don't offer/don't refuse. Be careful there!


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

nak
a week(which I previously posted I would write about) is not a life long obsession, it is mearly an observation. I don't veiw it as dirty work. When I was a kid having to co-sleep with my twin sisters because my mom had dissappeared again for a bit then it was a chore, DD right now is my best friend and companion seeing as I have no social life, she fills my day with fun and happiness even on the bad ones. I can sit there balling all horomonal and all it takes is a smile or nose scrunch and I'm giggling away. I've done nothing more then offer her everything and see what she wants. As for starting my own website or blog?, I'm so technologically challenged I don't know what a blog really is. This and simple searchs on google are as far as my expertise goes.
I'm sorry my actions are confuse you, but I'm also glad I understand yours and where you are coming from.


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 

Your posts make me really sad. For you as well as your DD. I wish so much that you could find some joy in cosleeping. Really, truely. It is such an amazing thing, I just wish, from the bottom of my heart, that everyone took as much pleasure from it as I do.

I agree. Co-sleeping has NEVER been easy for me. I am a DEEP sleeper. I'm talking 12-14 hours straight, don't remember my head hitting the pillow, don't wake me up before noon, kind of sleeper. Plus, I have fibromyalgia and other chronic pain issues. I have a bulging disk in my back, and with my thoracic outlet syndrome my arms go numb, COLD NUMB, when I sleep on my side.. yet I do it anyway.

I also understand the "quality over quantity" argument about sleeping, but I've learned to adjust. I honestly cannot fathom how anyone can get up and walk the halls, sit in a rocking chair, bounce, or otherwise be "awake" in the middle of the night. I just can't. I may nurse her back to sleep 7 times a night, but this, to me, is WAY more preferable then getting up and sitting in a rocking chair! I guess I am lazy!

There was a period of about a month (maybe more?) when DD slept better in her own room, so I let her. I have two monitors and was very responsive to her needs. It was a total PIA! I hated it. We've now had the crib side carred with the drop rail off and things are SO much easier.

I know you will have a gazillion reasons not to agree with what I'm about to say, but instead of complaining about co-sleeping and harping about how you need "good" sleep, why don't you give letting her sleep in bed, at the boob, all night long, an honest effort?

You don't need a bunch of expensive pillows, even rolled towels in the right place can help. I find for me my upper back, my lower back, and between the knees needs some sort of support. Give yourself, and your daughter, time to adjust to it. You may find it ends up being easier then you think.


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucysmama* 
Lemme see if I have this right:

She has been waking. You go and attend to her. She may need burped, changed, etc. She doesn't "ask" to nurse (by rooting, fussing, etc) so you don't offer, and you both go happily back to sleep. Correct?

no not correct. I'll go through the list of possiblities and save the breast for right after the other basic needs and wants unless she is obviously hungry, then that is the first thing I offer. DD is right on her curve and we were both tiny children andare small adults her weight isn't an issue.


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## gabysmom617 (Nov 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chronic Chrissy* 
no not correct. I'll go through the list of possiblities and save the breast for right after the other basic needs and wants unless she is obviously hungry, then that is the first thing I offer. DD is right on her curve and we were both tiny children andare small adults her weight isn't an issue.


YOu don't offer it before you check other things that may be wrong and that satisfies her, and you don't refuse it if she's "obviously" hungry.

--so your not doing the "don't offer don't refuse" weaning method. You're just not offering and not refusing?








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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

At this point, I'm going to close this thread to new posts for moderator review.

From the FBNP Forum Guidelines:

Quote:

Welcome to The Family Bed and Nighttime Parenting. *This forum has a specific aim: to encourage and support co-sleeping.*

Quote:

Once we become parents it is easy to blame ourselves when our children's behavior seems out of control. The pervasive idea that we should be able to control sleep habits leads us too quickly to call night waking a "sleep disorder" and to wonder what we are doing wrong to cause it. Research gives no indication that anything parents do causes night waking. Babies whose cries are responded to rapidly are not more prone to it. Assuming that there is some method out there to treat sleep "disorders" undermines a parent's confidence. Despite the notion that "healthy, normal" babies sleep through the night, surveys of parents show that most babies do not sleep through the night, at least until all their teeth are in.

While waiting for our children to develop physically and emotionally to the point where they can realistically soothe themsleves to sleep, we need to work on our own development toward tolerance, patience, and acceptance of those aspects of parenting that are beyond our control. What remains in our control is the ability to continue to care for our children even though they are keeping us awake at night; to continue to hold to our own integrity as feeling people.

To embrace a philosophy that takes into account the individual needs of each child is not to ignore the unfortunate reality that we need sleep. We need to nurture ourselves in this process of raising children. The key to tolerance, and the natural passge through the nightwaking years, is to observe, accept, and work with your child's own inner rhythms and timetables, which can lead to the understanding that nurturing your child and nurturing yourself are not mutually exclusive enterprises.

'Natural Family Living' by Peggy O'Mara
Please appreciate that this forum is not a place to uphold or advocate CIO (Crying It Out). Personal preferences for and encouragement of the use of CIO and similar sleep training methods are inappropriately posted here. Posts of that nature will be edited by the member upon request or will be removed.

Please feel free to discuss your problems and needs with the intent to learn more about co-sleeping and the family bed.
Anyone interested in learning more about Mothering's stance and information about the benefits of the Family Bed, here is a link to a wealth of information about co-sleeping.


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