# Keeping in Touch



## lolalapcat

A lot of women come and go on this board, and I think it would be nice to have a place for everyone to check in once in awhile, talk about how we are doing, where we are at now, and perhaps engage in some general conversation.

Anyone game?

Just for a conversation starter, here is a link to a discussion about miscarriages that I found really insightful, and it brought me some peace.

http://www.slate.com/id/2077127/entry/2077168/

I'm in a much better place than when I first showed up here. The grief waves still hit me sometimes, like last week which was my missed due date, but it's easier to take now.

My 40-something friends had a baby boy yesterday, and I am actually, genuinely happy for them! I didn't even shed a tear, which is huge. He was born C section, which is lucky for them, as he not only had a knot in his cord, but the cord was wrapped around his neck. There but for the grace of God, that is so scary!


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## Jennifer3141

Hi Keri,

I'm here. I MC'd today but i knew last night from my bloodwork that it would happen. 24 hours ago I was crying my eyes out. Now I just feel... resigned?

This isn't the first one but it's the first confirmed one since I had my kids. I think that's why this one hurts so much. I know what I'll be missing now.

I realized today that I wasn't tri-andem nursing anymore and I swear I heard my heart crack open.


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## lolalapcat

Jen, I'm so sorry.

It doesn't get any easier to have a miscarriage, just because you've had others.

Do hearts ever heal? I hope so, but I'm just not sure anymore.








Take care,

Keri


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## Frankiesmom

I like the idea for this thread.

Well, it has been three months since losing Frankie and it has really been a rollarcoaster of emotions. I have days where I think I am going to be okay and I have days where I can't breathe and don't know how I am going to make it without my baby boy. We have decided to TTC this month because I desperately want another baby to mother. I know that a new baby won't replace Frankie, and I wouldn't want them to, but I really need to have another baby to love. So, we'll see what happens.


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## lolalapcat

Frankie's Mom--

No, having another child doesn't replace the one you lost. But wouldn't it kind of restore your faith, or prove that sometimes all is right with the world? I'm trying to pin my finger on it...

The discussion in the link I posted, the women writing to each other about their miscarriages both acknowledged that they couldn't have had the discussion if they both weren't pregnant again. Something about being able to carry a child through a pregnancy healed their hearts a little, I guess.

I'm glad you like the idea for the thread. I genuinely want to know how the women who spent/spend time here are doing, and it would throw other threads off topic to ask. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels that way.

Keep us posted...


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## mommysusie

Hi Lolalapcat and everyone else!
I think it is a wonderful idea for everyone to check in everynow and then. I have often wondered how some of the ladies on this board are doing.
I am currently about 11 weeks pregnant and even though I am still extremely tense and nervous, I am very hopeful. I didn't lose my last baby until 19 weeks so I am sure I will be on eggshells until at least then. I keep feeling very cautious and nervous which is keeping me from getting attached to this baby because I am so scared that I am going to lose it. By this time last time I was pregnant, I had already picked out what theme I was going to do the baby's crib in and had already picked out the baby's name, this time I can't bring myself to even look at baby clothes or baby things which is a shame because I have always loved being pregnant, but I just can't let myself enjoy it. I haven't been to the doctor yet because of insurance problems and to self pay would kill me financially. I will hopefully have insurance within the month so then I will go to the doctor. I figure they can't do much to intervene this early anyway. I got pregnant on the first month we even tried after my loss, and I really, truly, didn't think I'd get pregnant so quickly, so I thought I'd have my insurance problems worked out before I got pregnant.
So far, this has been a pretty normal pregnancy, with the exception of spotting for 2 different days when I was 8 weeks. I realized I had a bad UTI and did everything I should and got better. I am feeling fine, with the exception of all the normal pregnancy symptoms for now. I am still so nervous though...
I hope everyone else is doing well!


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## gretasmommy

Thanks for this idea, Keri.

I am hanging out in the "TTC" after loss area a lot these days. Not much progress to move into the PALS area for me.

I am knitting a lot, as it helps to keep my mind off of things. I find that, most of the time, I am okay. At least not crying every day. And you are right about the feeling of restored faith in my body a new pregnancy would bring. I keep thinking that I ought to be able to do this . . . . . .and the waiting has been difficult! But I will knit more, try, try,try to be more patient . . . .


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## Jennifer3141

I'm ready to try again. DH is not however. He is till on the fence over the whole idea of a third anyway. So I'm in limbo here now - I'm hoping my last experience with pregnancy is not a loss.


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## mommysusie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennifer3141* 
I'm ready to try again. DH is not however. He is till on the fence over the whole idea of a third anyway. So I'm in limbo here now - I'm hoping my last experience with pregnancy is not a loss.









My DH didn't want to try again right away either, mostly because he was scared and he saw how much pain, both emotionally and physically the loss put me through. After alot of discussions, he saw just how important it was to me and agreed that having another baby would be the best thing for us.


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## babycarrier

Hope you don't mind me joining in. Our loss was almost 3 years ago and we have since gone on to have a wonderful little boy.

I came in to this forum today because of something my husband said to me at lunch. We were talking about some old friends and the fact that it had been a long time since we had seen them. Dh said, "it was right around peanut."

It touched my heart so much the way he said it. It reminded me how I didn't feel like I could see another tomorrow and smile with how much I hurt. Our first son was around 2 at the time.

Last week, ds and I walked out to the tree where we buried peanut and talked about it as Peanut's spot. We cleared the snow and found some of our rock circle still in place. It was so life-affirming. I never imagined this peace I feel.

This forum helped me through as nothing else did at the time.


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## Aeress

I miscarried during the summer...honestly I can't remember the date but as march approaches I am getting upset. I would have been almost at the end of my pregnancy and getting ready to deliver but instead my body is doing all kinds of odd cycles.

we have been trying since sept with no baby.







:







: I just can't be patient. I can't be cheery and I am tired of everyone telling me it will happen when it happens.

then there are days like today when I am just so thankful for my two dd's, especially after dd2 took a fall and has a head injury.


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## pianojazzgirl

Hi everyone!









My last m/c was in August and now I'm pg again - 5wks, 4days. I am very nervous and also almost without faith that this pg will make it all the way. I have a dd so I know I can have children, but since the 2 m/cs my confidence in my body has really taken a hit. I'm just trying to take it day by day and not get too caught up in negative and anxious thoughts.


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## lolalapcat

Hi, everyone!

Farmlife, welcome. Your husband sounds very sweet. Thanks for sharing a bit of your story, it's nice to know that you can move from pain to peace after you have lost a baby.

Pianojazz and MommieSusie, I offer subdued, hopeful congratulations for your pregnancies. You can't get too happy when you are scared, can you? There's the theory that losing a baby or pregnancy robs you of the innocent joy of a new pregnancy, but it also gives you a deep reverence for the process that you may not have had, otherwise. I am quietly excited for you!

Andrea, my great distractor has been Sudoku. It takes just enough attention that I can't obsess about other things. What is PALS? I haven't the foggiest.

Brendon, I've been charting CM and temps, and my body still hasn't settled back into a routine, and it has been 7 months. At least by charting I can tell what it is doing, but it's still frustrating.

I have been too scared to try to get pregnant again, which is why it seems I am a permanent resident of this board. When I get pregnant again (that's assuming a lot, isn't it?) I will be a nervous disaster, and will not hang out with happy happy optimistic mommies. I mean, look at my track record!


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## Jennifer3141

Kate, you especially are in my thoughts. My EDD was 3 days before yours.

I'm almost done bleeding. That wasn't too bad. I'm going to rest a couple of months and reconsider where we're at before TTCing again.


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## aileen

Quote:


Originally Posted by *farmlife* 
We were talking about some old friends and the fact that it had been a long time since we had seen them. Dh said, "it was right around peanut."

It touched my heart so much the way he said it. It reminded me how I didn't feel like I could see another tomorrow and smile with how much I hurt. Our first son was around 2 at the time.

Last week, ds and I walked out to the tree where we buried peanut and talked about it as Peanut's spot. We cleared the snow and found some of our rock circle still in place. It was so life-affirming. I never imagined this peace I feel.

This forum helped me through as nothing else did at the time.

this is so beautiful, mama.









i'm 18 weeks pregnant after a miscarriage last year at 12 weeks and just today i was thinking that i am a more whole, more loving, more empathetic person after loss. i am surprised. you describe it so beautifully.


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## moma justice

i mean to check in, ifeel bad sometimes thinking that i only post here when i feel compeltely insane with grief and over whelming emotion...
but otherwise, it hurts too bad to be here...
if i ma already pushed over that edge of sadness i can come here, but otherwise just being here can really make me feel sad.

it reminds me too much of how sad and hurt i am.

i want to have faith right now that there is a future that is full of safety and life and joy...it is such a fragile faith.

not only am i scared that i will never be able to carry a baby that is born to live again, but i am despretly scared that i am going to die too soon, befor emy daughter is grown...or worse, that she will die too....every day i beg god to please let us live.

maybe i should post my own post, i am feeling really down.


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## lolalapcat

There are some really good things on this board, along with the sad.

What aileen and farmlife said, about finding peace and developing empathy, and Moma J finding wisdom....it's a process, but the end products of grief aren't always bad. None of us wanted the lessons, and it was too high of a price to pay, but we here we are, changed for the better because of our losses.

Fear, we all feel fear, don't we? Since we know that there aren't always happy endings?


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## roslyn

I haven't posted much because really I still don't know anything. I had the HSG two weeks ago, there's only one fibroid. The only question now is, do I have another surgery not knowing whether the fibroid caused the stillbirth or not. Having the surgery will delay my ttc again by 3-6 months. I just don't know, and feel almost paralyzed by fear.


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## ApplePieBaby

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennifer3141* 
I'm ready to try again. DH is not however. He is till on the fence over the whole idea of a third anyway. So I'm in limbo here now - I'm hoping my last experience with pregnancy is not a loss.









I felt really strongly that my last pregnancy couldn't be a loss... so I'm back at it again. I'll be 14 weeks tomorrow... just hoping I make it to the third trimester this time...


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## Jennifer3141

Oh moma justice, you have my heart. I'm so very sorry for your losses and all that grief. You may post your sadness here anytime!!

Roslyn, what's your DH's feelings on the fibroid?

I'm done bleeding. The baby is officially gone now. DH and I need to talk seriously sometime soon.


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## lolalapcat

Hi, Roslyn. I was wondering where you were at in your dr. appointments. What does your doctor recommend? I can't believe I'm about to throw you out into the world of the internet, but have you gotten a feel for the general consensus with internet searches? I'll do the searching, if you'd like me to.








Maybe your heart needs a little more time to heal. Maybe not being able to make a decision is a self-protection reflex.

I know what all of you are talking about, I was paralyzed by fear for months. Now I'm nearly paralyzed....moving forward, but every step is painful. If we weren't afraid then that would mean we didn't learn anything, I guess. I just don't want fear to be the primary lesson.

Jenn, I'm glad your bleeding has stopped. It's a step towards things being more normal. Let us know how the discussion with your DH goes, if you would.

Applepiebaby, cautious congratulations on your pregnancy...stay tight, baby!


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## Plady

This is a good thread to have, just a place to check in.
I'm coming up on Wendy's birthday on Friday. So far I feel okay. I feel like her death has led me and dh through so many changes, all for the better, that though the price was too high, it is still of value.
I'm about 7 weeks pregnant now and it feels really right. But I'm glad that we waited until we were both ready and like many of you, it took dh longer than me to feel ready.
So, now we're hoping and praying and having faith that this outcome will be happier but knowing the alternative has made every facet of our lives more rich.


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## Jennifer3141

Oh Plady, your children are so incredibly beautiful. I l be thinking of you and Wendy tomorrow. I'm so sorry for your loss.

I will be talking to DH in a couple of weeks. He has an odd job where he works one week of nights every month and then gets the following week off. We do a lot of our discussing in that week after he's rested.









My Motherlove supplements for nursing while pregnant came yesterday. That was a hard box to deal with.


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## roslyn

Hello Lola, as usual you're great. Finally talked to my doctor, or at least his brain-dead nurse. I've got the green light to try to conceive. He doesn't think the fibroid is an issue. I adore my doctor, but his nurses are about to drive me to someone else. She actually said that there was no fibroid on the HSG and I know better because the radiologist told me I had fibroids, a couple of endometrial polyps and a thickened myometrium. The thickened myometrium is not surprising so soon after a stillbirth, and I doubt the polyps are a problem either as they haven't given me any trouble. But I'm worried that the nurse said there is no fibroid when I know that there was one, I saw it on the monitor. I guess I'm going to have to make an appointment and see my doctor. Talking to that woman is maddening. Though I guess if it were anything to worry about he wouldn't have given me the green light. Aaaarrrgghh, this is maddening.

I've done some internet searches, but I haven't found anyone with even a similar situation. I've found plenty that have had miscarriages due to fibroids, which is what I had the first time. But no one with a stillbirth. So maybe my doctor is right, and the stillbirth wasn't related to the fibroid. Of course, I really don't like dealing in 'maybes' but I guess I don't have anything else.

I'm thinking about going to an RE just to be sure, but he'd probably want my records from my regular doctor and that'll take forever. But I definitely want a second opinion with someone more familiar with fibroids. This not knowing drives me nuts!







:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lolalapcat* 
Hi, Roslyn. I was wondering where you were at in your dr. appointments. What does your doctor recommend? I can't believe I'm about to throw you out into the world of the internet, but have you gotten a feel for the general consensus with internet searches? I'll do the searching, if you'd like me to.








Maybe your heart needs a little more time to heal. Maybe not being able to make a decision is a self-protection reflex.

I know what all of you are talking about, I was paralyzed by fear for months. Now I'm nearly paralyzed....moving forward, but every step is painful. If we weren't afraid then that would mean we didn't learn anything, I guess. I just don't want fear to be the primary lesson.

Jenn, I'm glad your bleeding has stopped. It's a step towards things being more normal. Let us know how the discussion with your DH goes, if you would.

Applepiebaby, cautious congratulations on your pregnancy...stay tight, baby!


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## lolalapcat

Plady--







for Wendy's birthday. What a beautiful girl! Congratulations on your pregnancy, I hope things stay calm and predictable for you.

Time is the key, isn't it? There's no way to rush the process.

Jenn, sorry about the unfortunate timing of the supplements. There's nothing like the big reminders getting thrown at you.

Roslyn...I did some searching on your behalf, and also didn't find a strong connection between uterine fibroids and stillborn babies. There is a strong connection to miscarriage (and other fertility issues, you are lucky in a way) and to other things like the baby not growing well in utero, premature delivery, painful delivery.

I'd be leaning towards the myomectomy. Just to take care of anything that could affect the next pregnancy. But I have massive control issues, so I tend to latch on to anything controllable....

I did read something about radiofrequency ablation to destroy the fibroid laparascopically.

Why was a nurse interpreting your HSG anyway? I got a report from the radiologist, and face to face with my RE. And they weren't real sure about what they were seeing.








I know it's scary, and frustrating.

And I'm sending out kind thoughts to our Mindi, who is undergoing a D&C today...I'm so sorry she is going through this again.


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## Jennifer3141

Roslyn, if I were you - I would make an appointment for an RE. Some doctors have an amazing ability to get records quickly too. A second opinion surely won't hurt!


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## roslyn

Hello Keri and Jennifer. I did make an appointment with an RE. Unfortunately I can't see him until March 13. The scheduler said they have a lot of cancellations and she put me on the wait list for an earlier appointment. I too have control issues, and I think that's my biggest problem. Usually my doctor calls me with any test results. I have no idea why the nurse called. She said she was telling me what the doctor said, but if thats the case something is SERIOUSLY wrong. I know the fibroid was there, I saw the *(&^$ thing myself and the radiologist and her assistant both pointed it out to me. I asked for a measurement and they said the doctor would have to tell me that. (Yeah, I know. Why show me the darned thing and then not tell me how big it is? Aaarrrgghh!!!!) The nurse also didn't mention the polyps at all.

Well, I have the appointment. Question, should I call my doctor and tell him I'm seeing the RE for a second opinion? Or will he simply find out when he gets the records request? I have no idea what the protocol is for this. I still like my doctor, but I'm concerned he's not taking this seriously enough. I feel like Rocky or somebody. This is my last shot and I want to fix everything that's fixable before ttc again. Might mean I'm as crazy as can be, but at least I'll know I did everything I could.


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## Jennifer3141

Etiquette-wise, you can inform your doctor that you are seeking a second opinion but it really isn't necessary. My DH is a doctor and he - and all of his friends! - LOVE second opinion requests. It takes some of the pressure off of them and (hopefully) confirms that they are doing things right.

It's your freaking hoo ha. It's a big deal. If your original doctor is angry that you asked someone else for their opinion, then he may not be the right doctor for you anyway.


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## gretasmommy

Mindi- I hope things went well today. I felt as though I got some closure after my d&c. I waited for my body to handle things on it's own, and when it didn't I took matters into my own hands (so to speak). I'm thinking of you, wishing you a speedy recovery.








Wendy









(PALS = pregnancy after loss)

Sorry to be so short on words (not usually the case for me!), but I ma having a bad day/week/month/year . . .really, bad year so far. I am not fit for the public tonight. So i will sit and knit by the fire - i am knitting a boobie (yep, a boobie!) for a local breast cancer center so women can have an alternative to the silicone falsies out there. Perhaps moving my own focus to others out there less fortunate than myself might help . . . .really, I am quite lucky . . . . .really . . . . . .

I'll come back tomorrow, hopefully in a better place.


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## lolalapcat

Jenn--you are too funny, "it's your freakin hoo ha"...







I can totally hear that coming out of my MIL's mouth, she's from Michigan too. She is refreshingly forthright.

Roslyn--we are not going to call them 'control issues' anymore. We are our own best advocates, and need to be proactive in our own care. Besides, if it CAN be controlled, why not?

Good for you for making the RE appointment--a second opinion is definitely going to help you make decisions. If your regular Dr. is slow on records, tell them you would like to stop by and pick up copies of your most recent test results, and ask when this week you could do that. Very matter of fact. Need my records, when are you giving them to me. (Yes, I'm that person who has 'belligerent' written all over her medical file!)

You are a bit of a medical mystery, Roslyn, just like I am. If a doctor cannot identify the problem or answer my questions, I must find someone who can. Umm, hopefully. I have an appointment on Tuesday with a supposed expert.

Andrea, what's going on? Is it just the weight of the world bearing down on you, or did something specific trigger this? It is really icky to feel like you are stuck in a bad phase, I'm sorry that is where you are.

Oh crap, is that where all of us are? Surely not all of us. Well, in any event you have company.







I would think if anything would help, it would be knitting boobies!


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## Jennifer3141

I picked up my progesterone today. If we "do the deed" around O, I'll start it. I'm thinking I'll skip the next couple of months because I still want to rest my heart (and maybe my hoo ha.







).

I want an update from you Monday. Lola!


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## Mindi22

Wow, I haven't even checked in on this thread and I'm getting messages, thanks Andrea!

I'm loving the hoo ha conversation, and I agree whole-heartedly with it. If any doctor is offended by wanting a second opinion, they aren't worth their salt. (In my opinion, anyway, you might want to find a second!







)

Keri, thanks for starting this thread. I have been holding off check in because I just wasn't ready to, but I think I am now. I don't know... I'm going to avoid clicking on links in signatures for awhile, though, because I can't deal with all of the tears and the grief right now (although it's nice to let them out over someone else - it doesn't feel as selfish somehow!)

I have a due date coming up for my first m/c next month, on my birthday of all days... should be interesting.... I thought it wouldn't be as bad since I thought I was going to be pregnant again for it, but now that that's not the case, I'm pretty sure there will be a lot of tears that day.

I talked with DH today about adoption. I realize that there is still time for us to have another baby together, but a part of me is having a hard time believing that it can still happen, you know? I mean, Brian is proof that our gametes get along, but two m/c's in a row just make me start to doubt things. The OB that we saw last week didn't recommend any testing unless we had a third m/c, because the likelihood is so high of the third one sticking, but I honestly don't know how I'll feel if I have to go through this again. I think I might not be up for any testing or even trying again for a long time, and I'm almost 36, so I do feel as though my window of opportunity is closing. Not so much that I feel like I'm getting old, but Bri is, and if we're going to have another one, I really would like him to still be young enough to enjoy it, and not be forced into babysitter status (please don't take that as a slam to anyone who wants children far apart in age, I just have always wanted kids less than two years apart, and that's already passed, Bri will be at least 3 before we have another child at this point).

I'm starting to ramble now... I'll check in more later...









-Mindi


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## lolalapcat

Mindi, I'm glad you felt like joining us.

I want to smack your doctor though. Why don't they take 2 m/c's in a row more seriously? Your OB could at least check for clotting factors, which is something that could up after a successful pregnancy. Would you like me to call for you?

Sorry, my inner control freak just reared her head again.

My DH and I have talked about adoption also. Our next effort at ttc will help us decide that one. If it was up to me, I would be knee deep in the adoption process.

Jenn, I have progesterone in my arsenal also, but we are going to see if the 'expert' has any other suggestions. The appointment is tomorrow afternoon, but my stomach is already hurting...ugh, stress. Must get more sleep tonight, maybe that will help.


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## Jennifer3141

Mindi, I'm with Lola on the 2 MC thing. What on earth makes THREE the magical number at which they need to intervene?!? That's dumb.

Lola, I have hoo ha progesterone. Yep, twice a day I'll have to dig around in there with a capsule if I want a sticky baby.


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## roslyn

Well, I got a little more information on the chromosomal testing. They weren't able to tell me much, but my instincts were correct, she was a girl. My little Camille. I decided to name her that, I didn't really have any girl names because I assumed up until that point that she was a boy. But as I was leaving home for the hospital for my D&C my camellias which I planted to commemorate my mother and the little boy I lost in 2002 were blooming. And the name Camille came to me, and I knew she was a girl. This is so incredibly devastating because we want a girl so much. Anyway, the markers for the various trisomies, I have no idea what numbers she said, were negative. They weren't able to any additional testing. Does anyone know anything else about these tests? Frankly I was bawling at this point and really don't recall what else she said.

BTW, they're perfectly fine with me seeing the RE, and are forwarding the report to him. But now that I know it probably wasn't chromosomal, I'm even more so at a loss. What killed my baby and how do I keep it from happening again?


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## Jennifer3141

Oh Roslyn, I'm so very sorry for the loss of Camille. If you think you missed any information they may be able to give you because of your shock at the time, you can call the office up and ask follow up questions. Don't be embarressed to do that - it happens all the time.

I don't know much more than you about the chromosomal testing but I assume that if you're negative, that's a *good* thing (certainly relatively speaking). Hopefully the RE will have more answers for you soon.


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## roslyn

Thank you Jennifer, but I think I remember now, it was Trisomy 13, 18, and 21. I know 21 is Down Syndrome. I have no idea what the others are. I'll google them and see. Its late here. I was up until two last night working. I thought I would've crashed by now, but I can't stop bawling. I'd only have two months to go and I just had my period which reminds me that I'm not pregnant anymore. And all the stuff I've read about advanced maternal age has me scared to try again. I'm in the study freezing my heiny off because I don't to wake dh up sobbing, but I don't think anything has hurt this much since she died.


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## Jennifer3141

I googled for you too, Roslyn. Thank goodness it wasn't that!!

I'm 35 so I'm looking at being 36 when/if we have another. This is DH's biggest sticking point. So I'm worried about being old too.


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## lolalapcat

Hey, hey hey!!!! Enough of this 'old' talk already!

One of my doctors said that 35 isn't the magic number when things start to go bad, it's just a reference point for statistical purposes.

Yes, risks go up. But all the women I know who have had babies in the late 30's and early 40's have had perfectly healthy babies. I know a 43 year old who delivered a healthy baby boy a week and a half ago, and a 20 something who delivered a girl with Down Syndrome last month. And I have a friend with a daughter who has a trisomy defect (and is doing really well) and she was maybe 32 when she delivered.

And I was supposed to have a couple of babies by now. I wasn't supposed to be this age. We all have plans that have gone awry.

Defensive, aren't I? Sorry, I know it is a legitimate concern. Panic is now suppressed. But I panicked for all of us, no one else needs to panic now. Big collective sigh of relief, right?

Roslyn









I sorry you lost your daughter. I've always been sorry you lost your baby, but now I'm sorry about your little girl.








for your daughter Camille.

What a beautiful name.

I had a hard time with our chromosomal tests. I cried when they couldn't get results from baby 3. I cried when mine came back normal. I cried when DH's came back normal. I wanted permission to stop going through this process of loss, a reason to stop, something concrete. Because all of my tests say there is nothing wrong. But something IS wrong. And that's the same with you, isn't it? Without knowing what went wrong, you don't know if you are repeating the same thing for the next baby.

Have your doctors done some basic testing, in case it is something like a clotting factor and NOT the fibroids? I don't know at what stage clotting factors affect a pregnancy....nevermind, don't think of this right now.

Let it out, dear. You have a lot to cry about.

This is normal. Grief hits in waves. Lean on us, it will not always be this hard.


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## gaeasun

Hi all,

Great big hugs to all.









I am still in the denial stage with my most recent loss. My son Strider was still born 5 days before his due date. Unfortunately, I was in a coma when he was born, and for 3 more weeks after his birth. When I woke up I was on antideressants, and so I couldn't feel anything until they took me off.







: I am not totally convinced, but I am pretty sure we won't have any more kids. I am so afraid to go through this again. So I have many comnplications with my mourning this time around. I miss my first daughter (lost to cancer at 3). I miss the son I didn't even get to meet. I mourn the loss of my reproductive years. I am angry at my body for going ito a complete organ failure and killing my baby. And yet, it is all surreal. It is so hard to believe that I had a heart attack or a seizure, or that my brain was swollen to over 3 times its normal size and everything else that happened. I is just unbelievable, and since I was out for the birth, it is easy to be in denial. I am sure it will come out soon.

I am still spotting from post partum bleeding, and my breasts are still leaking. Totally unecessary.







:

Hang in there, mammas!!!!


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## roslyn

Keri, I know you're right, but I guess I'm really in the pits right now. I don't know how you do it, be so kind and supportive of us when you've had losses of your own. The only reason I'm not screaming right now is I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to stop.

My first one was bad, very bad. I was in a lot of pain, my FIL had just died and my mama was dying. But somehow focusing on the surgery and all that helped. This time, I have no idea what went wrong and I have nothing to focus on really. I haven't had any testing at all. I was reading last night about PCOS, something I've suspected I've had for a while. I've been tested a couple times, but nothing comes up, but a woman doesn't grow a full beard for no reason! I plan to have them test again. I think they think I don't have it because I conceive so easily, but it can cause stillbirth. I also want them to check my thyroid. I understand that it too can cause problems. I was also thinking about my mama last night. She had a total of ten pregnancies, but lost four due to miscarriage, SIDS and stillbirth. She was a carrier of sickle cell anemia. I've never worried about it too much, because though I'm sure I'm a carrier my dh is white and unlikely to be a carrier. But I wonder if there is something else about the disease that could cause problems? I'll ask the RE about that as well.

Goddess Gaeasun, I don't even know where to begin to tell you how sorry I am for your losses. Its hell on earth not to trust your own body to do its most basic function. Please know that I've been there and understand what you're going through. That's the wonder of this board, talking to people who actually understand. Its a blessing.


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## lolalapcat

Kim---

It is amazing that you survived such an ordeal, and now have to suffer so much.








I'm sorry about your little girl, and your baby son.

Roslyn--

I'm not kidding, I want to smack your doctors. They haven't even checked your thyroid? And if you have PCOS symptoms, they ought to figure out what the heck is going on. Imbalance in hormones, not good.

Really, there is a battery of tests they do on us 'habitual aborters' that covers the more obvious things, like clotting disorders, autoimmune factors, thyroid and I'm not sure what else. I know you are not technically a habitual aborter (don't you LOVE that term?) but you have lost 2 pregnancies...








Keep up the good fight, women.


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## gaeasun

Roslyn, thanks for your kind words. Keri, thanks as well. You have been through so much! I am sorry for everyone's losses here. It is a shame that we have to be here, although I am glad we have a place to come and unload and it is comforting to know I am not alone.

Not trusting your body is awful. But I came close to dying at least 2 times. And my DH and I just finished discussing how the Neurophycologist said I would never be the same due to my brain injuries. It was supposed to take my brain 3 months to start recovering, and it is mostly back to normal after being awake 1 month. I am not sure how I beat the odds, but I did.

I do have lots of other signs that things are not right. I had to relearn how to walk, I am still too weak to pick up my kids, I can't open a jar yet, etc. But my physical progress is amazing as well. I am just so angry at my body for killing my baby. I understand it was for my survival, as the eclampsia went into full effect (I didn't have pre-eclampsia, but got HELLP in the matter of less than a day), but it just makes me so mad. And how could my body betray me, a triathlete and very healthy eater (organic food, whole grains, natural meats), with a heart attack, and lingering high bp, high cholesterol and a high resting pulse?

I am thankful to be alive and almost normal again. But ugh! What a price to pay.


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## Jennifer3141

Oh Kim, I never feel like I can said anything helpful enough for you. What you have endured is so completely and totally unfair.


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## lolalapcat

Kim--offering another perspective.

It is your body that SAVED you....odd things happen to the human body, they are fallible. I would think that being extraordinarily healthy may be what kept you alive, when us average couch slumps may not have made it. And it is certainly part of your miraculous recovery.

I too am sorry that loss is what brings us all together. But the women here are pretty amazing. It is my pleasure to get to know all of you.

Help thy brother's boat across, and lo! thine own has reached the shore.
------Hindu proverb

Jenn, have you talked with your DH yet?

My appointment was not what I expected. They would like to redo the HSG and laparascopic surgery I had done last March, and I'm not on board with that. And they wouldn't do the surgery until late summer/early fall. Not good. Confused.


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## roslyn

Keri, your outlook is absolutely amazing. I never would've looked at Kim's situation like that. It makes perfectly good sense. Its sort of like the way people look at Magic Johnson and think that he must have some special drugs or doesn't actually have HIV. They forget that the man was an elite athlete. Clearly if you're in good physical health you'll have a better response to disease than someone who doesn't.

Oh, and good news. I got an earlier appointment with the RE! I get to go on Monday, instead of March 13! That's absolutely awesome. Goddess willing I'll have some answers soon.

Keri, why do they want to redo the HSG and lap? (I could go the rest of my life and never have another HSG! Blech! Never had lap surgery, but it sounds awful to?) And why so late--what are they waiting for?

My doctors drive me crazy with the PCOS business. They acknowledge that I've got elevated male hormones, but don't think its PCOS because I get pregnant easily and have no cysts on my ovaries. I'm hoping to get the fasting glucose tolerance test on Monday. I'm convinced that I'm insulin resistant, and there's something hinky going on with my thyroid. My niece has Grave's disease and I understand there can be a hereditary component. Oh well, I'm just glad I'm seeing an RE.







:







:







:


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## gaeasun

Thanks Keri, you are right. It is just a little fresh to think that way right now. Actually, in the hospital, I kept saying we need to have a party to celebrate life. I was very thankful to be alive at that point. Of course they had me on antidepressants at the time.







:


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## Jennifer3141

Keri, thanks so much for asking. Yes, DH and I have started talking about it. He doesn't understand how I could want another (two toddlers does keep you hopping!!) but he hasn't absolutlely said NO yet. He's really not a baby person and for him it all comes down to how very hard that first year is. He really does need all the sleep he can get - he works 16 hours or more a day the weeks that he does work - and an infant does disrupt that. We've been talking about ways it would be different this time around. Basically, he'll get sloppy, not put a condom on, and then I'll get pregnant again. That's how we make ALL our babies.















I've got my first month's worth of progesterone here already.

Gaea, did you ever have that party?

Roslyn, have you seen this particular RE before? It was my endocronologist who found the PCOS and he takes it very seriously. Hopefully, you'll find someone who does the same!


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## gaeasun

Jen, I haven't had the party yet. I have only been home from the hospital 2 weeks. I haven't even figured out what do about Strider yet. I don't want a funeral, but I want something. Just don't know what yet.


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## lolalapcat

Kim, I just ran across a book on planning funerals for babies, but I can't quite remember where I was online....I am short on time now, but I will look for it for you. You could start a thread, asking what other women have done. When you are ready, that is.









We all could spend time beating up our own bodies for their failures, after all, that is why we are all here. But my body serves me very well, it is strong and rarely gets sick....I feel sorry for all I have put it through, trying to have kids. It deserves better.

Which is part of why I don't want another HSG and Laparoscopic surgery.

Ros, the long wait on appointments is because this guy is a pioneer in the pregnancy hormone world. Physicians around the world follow his teachings. Blahblahblah. His theory is that most m/c and some stillbirths can be related to poor hormone production during the pregnancy. And that the off hormones are usually caused by endometriosis, ovulation disfunction and subacute uterine infections.

I actually thought of you when I was reading more information on the hormone support, Roslyn. Another thing to check. Except a lot of RE's don't buy into the idea that some women need hormone support during or even before pregnancy. And I can't champion any ideas that haven't worked out for me yet....

Big Dr. thinks that I should be rechecked for endometriosis, even though I had a tiny amount removed last March. I don't know why he wants to redo the HSG. NEVER want to have that again, it was extraordinarily awful.

Roslyn, good news on getting the appointment sooner! Make a list of questions, get them all answered. Ask for the full battery of tests. Be an assertive, informed patient. And hopefully the doctor will be receptive.

Jenn, it's good that your DH was open to the idea. I think m/c and stillbirth scares the hell out of men too, and they don't want to repeat it.

What kind of progesterone are you on? Delivery method, I mean.

Oh, did you hear on the news about the theater marquis in Florida that changed the 'Vagina Monologues' to the 'Hoohah Monologues'? Somebody complained about the word 'vagina' being on the sign. Like it's a dirty word or something!!


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## Jennifer3141

Keri, I'm so sorry you may have to redo some stuff. One of my friends had an HSG and it was incredibly painful. I had one and couldn't feel a thing.







: Unfortunately, I had mine first and told her it was a piece of cake. I ended up misleading her.








When do you see your RE again?

I'm supposed to start hoo ha Prometrium when we have sex around O next time. I'm taking this month off for sure. I need some time yet to grieve. Yesterday was supposed to be my first check up/US for the baby.


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## roslyn

Keri, those theories sound really interesting, and I'll be sure to mention them to my doctor when I see him. If hormone support doesn't hurt I don't see any reason not to try it. I know my hormones are squirrelly. I'm a 42 yo woman with a beard for Pete's sake!

I don't know that much about endometriosis, but can it grow back? Is that one of the things he's concerned about? Do they have to do lap to check for it? One of my friends had fibroid surgery and they found endometriosis as well. (Every black woman I know has had fibroids, and I don't know a black woman over the age of 50 that hasn't had a hysterectomy for them. Scary, isn't it?) How bad is a lap?

I've got to be assertive with this situation, but its hard for me. The funny thing is, I used to be a social worker and would fight like a tiger for my clients. I don't know why its so tough for me to do it for myself.

I did get a prescription for Welbutrin. Some of my thoughts were beginning to seriously frighten me. Not sure if I'll take it or not. I think it takes two weeks to start showing effect, but I'm having a tough time.

Those people in Florida sound like the folks who publish my books. I write romance novels and somehow the words penis, vagina and clitoris aren't to be used when the couples engage in intercourse. Its beyond bizarre. And Hoo-Ha has to be somebody's idea of a joke. I guess if a romance writer wrote it it would be 'Her Trembling Softness Monologues.'

Oh, and that term, 'habitual aborters,' honest to goodness if someone called me that I'd have to have a restraining order. Do you think these people have any consciousness at all of the terminology they use? So far everyone has been pretty reasonable with me, but goodness only knows what I'll find at the RE. I've been hesitant to go elsewhere because my gyno is so sensitive.

Jennifer, yeah, I think some time off is a good idea. Its so hard when these dates come up and remind you of where you're supposed to be in the process.


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## lolalapcat

Roslyn--









You are funny! Being a romance writer would certainly put a new spin on our medical files...

"Habitual aborter" was in my files, I didn't know they were calling me that. Yes, it makes me a little homicidal, but it's true. What a nasty way to put it, though. But if you ask for the 'habitual aborter' battery of tests, they will know what you are talking about. I can get you a list, if you want. Not that you are a habitual aborter---that is me---but there is definitely something going on with you. Fight like a tiger, you are worth it!!!!

Oh, my other favorite: Fetal Wasting. That's a term they use when you hit the magic number of 3 m/c's. The power of words, sometimes they almost make me sick.

I hear some women fly right through HSG's...they couldn't get the dye into my left Fallopian tube, so used a second vial and forced it. Swear to God, I thought they were rupturing my reproductive system. It was awful.

The lap procedure was more involved (intubation, anesthesia, blahblah) but far less painful than the HSG. I could do the lap again before the HSG.

I should schedule a massage. My body deserves some nice treatment! Maybe I'll take it out dancing.

So the fibroid thing is interesting, I didn't realize there was such a genetic connection. Hopefully some of these new treatments can help you avoid a hysterectomy....it shouldn't be a foregone conclusion.

Thyroids...my family is littered with thyroid problems. And genetically carried ALS. Everybody has something. I've thought about not having genetic kids, so as to avoid passing on thyroid and neurological problems, but any kid is going to have genetic something going on.

Jenn, sorry about the landmark day.







Like you need reminders of what you lost. Some more time sounds like a good idea.

You are one of those easy HSG people! Your poor friend....I can relate.


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## Ambrose

I haven't read many responses. Some are very hard to read so I skipped quite a bit.

I'm doing better. I returned to work now for good, but my boss and I are looking into the possibility of moving me to another department that is under her wing so she can slip me in somewhat unnoticed. Well... when I'm taking 3x the prescribed dose of anti anxiety meds... somethings got to be done right?









It's hard but seems to get easier with each step. Until the 2 month old neighbor baby falls asleep in my arms unbeknown-st to me and I wig and think she's dead. It happens on occasion me acting like that but it's decreased quite a bit. Heh- I'm babbling now and it's cuz I'm on my sleepy time meds. So- ummm. I'm gonna go get that sleep.


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## Jennifer3141

Alright Keri, I'll get a massage if you do!









I mentioned the 3rd baby to everyone at DH's work party last night. The consensus was to go for it. Poor DH felt a little besieged. We'll have one more. I can feel it.

I wish I could do the HSG for you all!! Did it hirt because there were blockages? My tubes were fine - it was the one part of me that really did work the way it was supposed to.

Roslyn, take the meds. Give them 2 weeks and see what happens. You will be better able to deal with this stupid process if your mind isn't clouded by depression. t there are jerks in every field.


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## lolalapcat

Ambrose, it is good to hear from you. I had been wondering how things were going. It sounds like maybe a little easier? Easy on the meds, 3x the normal dose? I hope it is helping, but be careful!

Your boss is a good person, you are lucky.

Jenn, you are so sweet for offering to do the HSGs for us! Nothing was blocked on me, maybe it was just a skinny tube...

A consensus on a 3rd baby, did your DH vote? Peer pressure at work..

Roslyn, thinking of you as you go to your RE appointment today. Give us the updates when you get a chance. I'm with Jenn, you have the Wellbutrin, you recognize the Wellbutrin can help, take the Wellbutrin. Wish I had had the guts to ask for some chemical help myself when I really needed it.


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## roslyn

I had my first appointment with the RE today. He was very nice, we met in his office and discussed my records, symptoms and whatnot. Then he did a transvaginal ultrasound. Said my ovaries looked good, not cysts or anything bad.

When my next cycle starts in a couple of weeks, I'll go in for some bloodwork, and a diabetes test. Not the GTT, the two-hour one. He doesn't think I have PCOS either, since I ovulate on schedule, but he'll check for it anyway. Is going to check my thyroid as well. Didn't feel anything wrong with it today, so I guess that's good. A few days after my cycle is over, I'll have the SIS, not the HSG so he can make sure my uterine lining is okay, and that there are no adhesions or anything from my surgeries.

He said the fact that I ovulate and get pregnant easily is a positive sign. Indeed he said that if at my age if I had ovulatory problems he'd probably tell me there was little or no hope. So I guess that's encouraging news. We talked about hormones and the possibility of baby aspirin if he found any clotting problems. He said my facial hair problem may well be on androgen issue, but it wouldn't cause miscarriage or stillbirth. But I can't take the drugs to address that issue now.

I am taking the Wellbutrin. Can't say I feel any better yet, but I certainly don't feel any worse. Of course, I know it has to reach a blood level.

I'm pretty tired, didn't get much sleep last night. Feeling anxious about this appointment. Also I think the Wellbutrin is triggering insomnia. Since I'm in deadline hell right now with my books that's not necessarily a bad thing!







So if the little guy goes down for his nap, I think I'll take one too.


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## Ambrose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lolalapcat* 
Ambrose, it is good to hear from you. I had been wondering how things were going. It sounds like maybe a little easier? Easy on the meds, 3x the normal dose? I hope it is helping, but be careful!

Your boss is a good person, you are lucky.

Yeah- I know I need to chill out on the meds. I've taken up some yoga. There is a free online daily yoga class with a different routine every day. You can always go through the archives I think though and do the same one over and over though. I think it's http://www.yogatoday.com/archive Last night I wasn't scheduled to work- and on those nights I try to go to bed by 3AM but I COULD.NOT.SLEEP. I was up until 9AM. I took only my regular dose on meds. I did some yoga and tried some deep breathing relaxation. I just could not get the feeling of sadness and longing to have Las with me. Do any of you have some suggestions?

I do have an appointment with the psychiatrist tommarrow @1:30PM so I'll be telling him about the meds and everything. I'm determined to be 100% honest.


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## lolalapcat

Roslyn, I am glad your RE is taking a proactive approach. So much can be revealed through bloodwork. Also glad you have started the Wellbutrin, and hope it will help get you back on track. You are sounding more upbeat these days....

Hope your deadlines aren't driving you crazy!

Ambrose, I don't know how you get over longing for the baby you lost. I don't know if you ever will, or if you should. Wish I had answers.

I would guess that time is the answer, as usual. That the longing will not be so strong and urgent, that the rest of life will keep your attention a little better.

I wish I knew what website I saw this on, grief depicted as a circle. The rest of your life is another circle, containing the grief. When you have first lost a child, the grief nearly fills the rest of your life. As time goes on, the grief stays the same size, but your life grows larger around it.

Yoga is good, I'll check out that link when I am not so tired and sore. Deep breathing is amazing---usually my blood pressure skyrockets at dr appts, but 2 appts ago I did deep breathing in the waiting room...my blood pressure was lower than it had been in years! I imagine negative thoughts leaving my body when I exhale....

Has anyone tried a gratitude journal? Writing down the things in your life for which you are thankful? I'm going to try it, I think. To remember all I DO have, since so much of the time I spend focusing on what I DON'T. Need to reverse that trend.


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## Jennifer3141

Roslyn, it sounds like you're on the right track with this RE.

I've had a wicked cold the past few days and I'm O'ing. I am going to let this one go though. I'm just not feeling any baby excitement this month. There must be a little grief still hiding there somewhere.


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## lolalapcat

Jenn, hope you get to feeling better. You'll know when it's time to try for another little one, if it's not now, that's okay.

Are you buried in snow? Aren't you up by the lakes? Cold weather and snow and being sick, I'd be hibernating.

Roslyn, are you swamped with deadlines?


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## roslyn

Yeah Keri, I'm going insane at the moment with re-writes. I hate when I do this to myself, but the story just isn't working the way I wrote it! Probably would be perfectly fine, but I can't stand to do less than my very best. After all, people pay money for this. Should be done after the weekend.


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## Jennifer3141

Roslyn, are you not using the term "hoo ha" enough?









And yes Keri, we're as buried up here as much as I ever want to be. There's almost 2 feet of snow on the ground and it's been here for weeks now. At least today we have some sunshine.
I was actually thinking that this would be the perfect time to have a wee one because I just don't feel like leaving the house right now anyway.


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## Jennifer3141

Hey, we haven't been doing a very good job of "keeping in touch!" How is everyone?

Keri, I've been eavesdropping on the other thread so I can keep up with you.


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## gaeasun

I am doing OK. I am still dealing with some physical issues left over from my birth. I have something called stidor, which is difficulty breathing. This, of course, is ironic, since it was the birth of my son Strider that caused me to have all the tubes down my throat, which caused scarring, which is what they think is causing stridor. UGH! It's always something, isn't it?

I also still have a feeding tube coming out of my stomach. It is such a pain and it is stinky.







That comes out next week. After the tube is out, I am leaving for an extended trip with my kids. I will homeschool them and reconnect. They missed their mom while she was gone for 5 weeks. I think they need some reassurance that I am here.

I still have lots of grieving to do. I am not looking forward to that.









I hope all is going well with everyone else!


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## roslyn

Well, I get all my testing done tomorrow. Have to keep reminding myself not to eat breakfast. I can't wait to see what the results will be.


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## lolalapcat

Jenn, thanks for caring enough to eavesdrop!







So you know I have been overwhelmed and insane. As much as I try to hold it together, sometimes all of life's complications get overwhelming.

My u/s series is done, ovary looked good, which I believe rules out ovarian dysfunction as a cause of our m/c's. Start a series of 5 more blood draws tomorrow....once again, when I could be getting a snow day. Damn it. Snowiest winter I can remember in the last decade or better, and every time we have crappy road conditions, I have to drive somewhere for an u/s or bloodwork.

Well, I'll get a day off in March, when I consult with the dermatologist about the pesky skin cancer on my nose. Amazing, how sunscreen has suddenly become very important in February. Not life threatening, but yet another thing to deal with. Grrrrr.

One day at a time. We can get through anything one day at a time, can't we? Someone assure me of this, please.

So how are you, Jenn?

Roslyn, good luck on the testing! Keep us posted as to what they find. So here is the quandary---are you hoping that you are 'normal' or hoping they find something treatable? And how are you, generally?

Kim, I'm sorry I didn't respond to your post about the Strider/stridor connection, it was during the week when I had appointments every day with icy roads and 100 miles round trip....and that is no excuse. That is strange and bizarre, and why, why, why? Why such a strange coincidence during this time?

It is good that you are healing, and things are slowly getting back to normal.

A book that has really helped me deal with grief is 'Healing After Loss' by Martha Whitmore Hickman, I got it at Barnes & Noble. It is daily meditations, and I think that helped as much as anything...actually addressing the grief daily, instead of pushing it away, only to have it well over later.

I hope you have a wonderful trip with your kids! They are so lucky to still have you, you are a miracle.


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## gaeasun

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lolalapcat* 
Kim, I'm sorry I didn't respond to your post about the Strider/stridor connection, it was during the week when I had appointments every day with icy roads and 100 miles round trip....and that is no excuse. That is strange and bizarre, and why, why, why? Why such a strange coincidence during this time?









No apologies necessary! You are going through hell, and the fact that you can check it at any point is fantastic. Sorry to hear about all the blood draws. What a pain. I hope they are able to find the problem, soon!

The books sounds wonderful. I will certainly look it up.

I am headed to a photographer that did some pictures for us years ago. She is going to take some of the pictures of Strider and clean them up (he looks quite dead in the pictures, and they are kind of morbid). This should be fun.









Roslyn, how did the testing go?

Hugs to all! Hang in there!


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## roslyn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lolalapcat* 
My u/s series is done, ovary looked good, which I believe rules out ovarian dysfunction as a cause of our m/c's. Start a series of 5 more blood draws tomorrow....once again, when I could be getting a snow day. Damn it. Snowiest winter I can remember in the last decade or better, and every time we have crappy road conditions, I have to drive somewhere for an u/s or bloodwork.

Bummer about the snow days, but glad that the ovaries looked okay. Of course, that means you still don't know. So, in a way I guess its bad. Its so frustrating to almost be wishing they'd find something wrong with your body. I hate driving in bad weather. Our winter has been quite mild, but then I do live in Alabama!

Quote:

Well, I'll get a day off in March, when I consult with the dermatologist about the pesky skin cancer on my nose. Amazing, how sunscreen has suddenly become very important in February. Not life threatening, but yet another thing to deal with. Grrrrr.
Yeah, I've become quite a sunscreen devotee as well, and I'm black. Never thought I'd ever need the stuff. Is it a skin cancer that keeps coming back, or is it something new?

Quote:

Roslyn, good luck on the testing! Keep us posted as to what they find. So here is the quandary---are you hoping that you are 'normal' or hoping they find something treatable? And how are you, generally?
They took approximately 22 vials of blood out of me today. On an empty stomach no less. I had the 2 hour fasting glucose test as well. I was quite sick by the time they finished, but I'm glad to have gotten it over with. Dude is testing me for everything there is. Its so confusing. In a way I'm hoping they find something. That way it can at least be treated. But isn't that kind of sick? To want there to be something wrong with you? I just don't know.

OTOH, I'm finally out of deadline hell. Had to interview a female lockmaster. What's a lockmaster you might ask? A lockmaster is in charge of the locks of a dam on a river. There are only three female lockmasters in the country, and I interviewed the first one. (Yeah, I know, but a couple of weeks ago I interviewed Bradley Walker, an up and coming bluegrass singer.) Plus I was working on a short story that I'm putting up on my website as a free download for readers. Plus, my next novel has got to be completed by June because I'm going to a convention in July to try to get an agent. And I've enrolled my son in pre-school. Yeah, its been a bit squirrelly around here. But I'm finally in the homestretch.

Gaeasun, I think its so neat that you've got pictures. I really regret having to have a d&c both times. I was very fortunate that this time a very kind nurse got finger and handprints for me. It was incredible of her to do that for me. I still can't look at them, but knowing that I've got proof that my little Camille existed is incredibly comforting.

BTW, I ran into my regular OB at the video store. He came over to give me a hug.


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## lolalapcat

22 vials of blood---holy cow! They took mine gradually (a few here, a few there), so I didn't realize how many it added up to. You almost need a transfusion after that, or at least a big steak and heaping bowl of green leafies!

I don't think it is sick at all to hope something is wrong with your bloodwork. After all, something is wrong with our bodies, so it's finding a REASON. We already know there is a problem, we want them to find it and fix it!

Roslyn, your life sounds a bit fascinating, getting to interview all kinds of people! I'd ask for your website, but can understand wanting to maintain some privacy here. Although the women who gather here know more about me than most people do!

The skin cancer is new, yippee. I hope it doesn't keep coming back! I've been pretty good about sunscreen throughout my life. But I've had my share of sunburns nevertheless. I don't think it's funny at all that you use sunscreen, you are at risk of premature aging and skin cancer no matter your color! If I can come up with a kid, I'll slather them in the stuff. Early life sunburns are the ones that put a person at higher risk for cancer. Ooops.

Kim, thanks. My life isn't quite hell, I'm reserving that designation in case something ELSE comes up. I'm not kidding myself that this is the worst it can get, it certainly isn't. Life is hard, as you have found out too. Actually, all of us here. The fact that the highway is closed and I have to make it to the big town for a blood draw today is highly annoying though.

It is good that you have pictures of Strider. I hope the photographer does a good job on touching them up a bit, that way you can see HIM and not just his condition at birth. I can't even imagine what it must be like to have a meeting like that. You are powerfully strong.

Have you decided on any kind of service for him yet? Hmm, I was supposed to look for that idea book for you, I am such a scatterbrain. If you want suggestions, I will look.

Jenn, batten down the hatches, I think this beast of a storm is headed your way! My inlaws escaped Michigan, and are in Gatlinburg TN this week. I'm not sure if they are expecting this down there!


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## roslyn

Quote:

Roslyn, your life sounds a bit fascinating, getting to interview all kinds of people! I'd ask for your website, but can understand wanting to maintain some privacy here. Although the women who gather here know more about me than most people do!
I don't mind. My website is in my profile, go ahead and check it out. Right now its primarily about my book, Rock Star. I don't have any of my freelance stuff up yet. Most of it hasn't been published yet. I've got some older stullf that I'll put up when I've got some time to do some scanning.

Good luck with the skin cancer. I read an article about a woman who was a tv anchor and she had a cancer on her cheek. Its amazing how they took it out and reconstructed her face. I wish I could remember which magazine it was. I was truly fascinated. I try to read as much as I can about skin cancer. I'm married to a very fair-skinned redhead. He's an avid outdoorsman/sports nut who hasn't been as careful about sunscreen as he should.

We're getting the storm here. They're actually letting schools out early. We get a lot of tornadoes in this area, so I'm a bit leery, but I think we'll be okay.


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## Mindi22

<< This is kind of cross posted here>>

Holy Crap!

So here's my update.... I had a follow up appointment with the OB after my D&C, and he basically recommended waiting a little bit to TTC, but was pretty non-committal about how important it was to wait... and basically told me to keep taking my prenatals just in case I did get pregnant...

I was very sick over the weekend, food poisoning or something, wasn't pretty... at first though, it was just nausea and exhaustion, and all I could think was "I can't possibly be pregnant again... " (But if you read the original post on this thread, you know it is indeed a possibility...)

Since Tuesday, I've been feeling better, but this morning, I had to run in the bathroom and stand over the sink for a bit dry heaving.... DH comes in to check on me and asks me if I'm pregnant or if it's a bit of the weekend stuff coming back, I told him I'm not sure...

So I took a test earlier today. I don't think I was hallucinating that I saw a VERY faint line in the positive section of the test.... and at just about the 10 minute mark that line was definitely there... not sure if it was after or not. OMG... could I really possibly be pregnant already??? I'm kind of freaking out right now... at least internally.

Luckly, I bought a box with more than one test, so I'll check again in a few days, I guess...








:

-Mindi


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## gretasmommy

Jumping in . .. .again . . . .oh Mindi! I hope so (of course,if this is want you want right now!!!)! I will be keeping my fingers crossed until you pee on that whole box of sticks!

Keri- Thanks again for starting this thread oh-so-long-ago. I haven't been posting much lately. I feel a bit better today, though they took a few vials of blood from me at the m/w today. This is my second loss, and while she says it's early to "look into it" I pushed a little (apparently I am good at that). The u/s today (6 d after the m/c) showed nothing other than some bleeding to finish this - no need for surgical intervention. That's the best I can hope for at this point. I am more crampy now that earlier in the week, so I really hope this ends soon.

Skin cancer! Ack! Just one more thing, right? Yep, we can absolutely get through anything one day at a time. That's been keeping me going for months, and I am certainly not giving up on it now!!!!

Hello to everyone here I haven't yet met. It's nice to have this group . . .


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## lolalapcat

Roslyn--hmm, I may consult you on my skin cancer! A fair skinned redhead, huh? Your DH may be even fairer than I am, and I'm pretty darn pale (without the benefit of self tanner, that is!)

Mindi, that's incredible! Morning sickness is a good sign, you know, it seems to indicate a stickier pregnancy. Keep us posted!

Andrea, it's good you got your doctor to do some tests. It's just covering bases, you know. It doesn't hurt to check, just in case your 2 m/c's AREN'T random And personally, 2 not counting enough to do tests drives me completely berserk. Multiple losses, not normal.

My doctor had a m/c and 2 very difficult pregnancies before finding out she has a clotting disorder. She is my ally, because she gets it. I am so incredibly sorry she had to go through that, but look at what it has done for her intuition and ability to empathize...her lost baby has helped me. Thanks, baby.

One day at a time.


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## gretasmommy

Roslyn- Another fair skinned redhead? Me too! And G as well. The girl is slathered with SPF every day of the year, and we reapply every 1.5 hours outdoors. My early years of burning have taught me well! Neither of my parents were red heads, and we simply burn (self tanner or not!). G even reminds me to apply if it has been awhile!

keri-
It is nice to be able to share your experiences with a doc who has BTDT in some fashion. My experiences as a mom have made me a much better doctor, I think. When moms (and sometimes dads) tell me how exhausted they are because their dc's have been up all night, or they are struggling with their dc's temper, etc, I can truly empathize and I really think that helps. And now, when families tell of their difficulties with fertility and loss, at least inside, I get it.


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## Jennifer3141

I'm so glad to see everyone piping in again!

I cannot even imagine 22 vials of blood. Four makes me feel all wimpy.

I'm on CD 35 and no period. No positive on pregnancy tests. I'm just a big hormonal mess right now. We didn't even have sex close to O so I know I'm not pregnant but this is obnoxious. I'm in hormone limbo right now and I hate it.

I had a basal cell removed from my nose when I was pregnant with DS. That was sexy, let me tell you!!!!!!!


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## lolalapcat

Ugh, Jenn, sorry about the bizarre cycle. That's maddening, when you just want everything back to normal and your body won't comply.

Last month I had my 2nd 28 day cycle since my last m/c. It has taken a looonnnnngg time for my body to settle back into any kind of normalish routine. Usually that means I get an extra long bout of PMS!

Hmm, and we are basal cell buddies. Another group I didn't want to belong to, but here we are! If you're going to have skin cancer, this is the one we want, right?

Okay, sunscreen users....all sunscreens burn my face. Not raging, red inducing burn, but uncomfortable for several minutes, especially around the eyes and nose. I'm on my 2nd brand of full spectrum, and am scratching my head as to what to do. Any suggestions? I have Water Babies in the hall closet, I will dig that out and try it today.

Bloodwork and bad highway conditions. Must get going. Just 4 more draws, and I'm done...of course, that takes me to next Friday. Whine. Whine.


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## gretasmommy

Oh, Keri- more bloodwork? Can't they just transcutaneously measure whatever they need? You must be nearly empty! Drive safely!

As for sunscreen, I use Coppertone waterbabies, just like G. It doesn't sting at all,and smells like sunscreen from my childhood (when they actually used the stuff on me!).

Jenn - I sure hope your hormones sort themselves out soon!

Keri- Horray for 2 "normal" cycles! I haven't had one of them in nearly a year.

Anyone hear from Mindi yet? Keeping my fingers crossed!


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## Mindi22

Well, I just took another test, and although there was a very very faint line if I really squinted, I'm thinking it's negative.... so I'm a little bummed, but overall, it's ok.... I think I need to get my body in better shape and a little more together before I go through pregnancy again, even if it ends in a m/c....

Thanks for crossing your fingers, Andrea







I appreciate it!

-Mindi


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## gretasmommy

I completely understand the desire to get into shape before going through this again. I have made a commitment to myself - to exercise regulary and to eat well. I need to drop some weight and feel better about myself and my body for a change. I owe it to myself. These last 8 months have been all about TTC and pregnancy. I need to focus inward for a bit.


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## lolalapcat

Jenn, is it possible you ovulated at a goofy time, since your schedule is still messed up? Stranger things have happened.

And I was completely homicidal after my 3rd...the hormones were sooooo bad. I truly felt psychotic at times, and I just kept repeating in my head "it's the hormones, it's the hormones...." It took a couple of months before I started to feel sane again. My poor husband, my poor family. Although I didn't kill a single person, so I really did well considering what I had to work with!

Just saying. Hormones are funny things.

Mindi...faint lines count. Try a different brand of HPT, like clear blue easy. Better to know for sure. My fingers are crossed.

Andrea, I watched the infomercial for Core Secrets the other night, does that count for anything? When weather gets nicer I garden (in the middle of the night, now), and a friend and I have big plans to walk our dogs around a lake, and I'm itching to go roller blading.

What are you planning for self-care, if you don't mind me asking? I do the grief meditations, some Bible reading (odd how the book of Lamentations appeals to me), deep breathing, cat massage (it lowers blood pressure). But posting here is my real therapy.

I swear, I am going to schedule a massage. My back is full of knots. My body deserves something nice. Jenn, are you still going to schedule a massage?

Eating better is my big thing right now. Ramping up the SuperFoods. Must eat more beans, I do okay on fruits, veggies and whole grains. Says the woman with bacon on her breath.

Yesterday's blood draw was supposed to include a vial for beta endorphins. They didn't know what to draw for that, so took 3 vials to cover all bases. Tomorrow is estradiol, progesterone, a full thyroid panel, beta endorphins, a couple of testosterone and andro something something. I think that rules out stopping at the blood drive tomorrow. I'm getting a little peaked. I think it's 11 blood draws this cycle.

Holy crapola. Mindi, I just reread your post, and you think like I do. 'even if it ends in m/c'. That's so something I would say, and I wish we didn't have to think that way.

Okay, I found the Water Babies today---it is spf 60! Liquid Hat. It may be 50 degrees today, so I'll take the dog out to play in the snow before it's gone, and I'll be prepared....

Blahblahblah. I'll stop. Nice chatting with all of you!


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## gretasmommy

Yeh, WaterBabies comes in a few different SPF's. I would try it out and if it doesn't sting, go get a new one - they generally last one season and beging to slowly lose their potency







.

Self-care? What do you mean? Oh, do you mean doing something actually for me???!!!!! Well, I am currently trying really hard to not eat the brownies (why do I do it, why?) I made for the kids and the kind neighbor who cleared the snow from our driveway yesterday. I was going to got ot the gym today, but I think I will take a little nap instead. Yep, so far, that's it. I would love to lose about 40 pounds, but 25 would be a fabulous start.

Wow! That's an awful lot of blood this cycle. I sure hope you are able to pin things down and get a good idea of what's going on for you and your body. It's just so unsettling to not understand.

Off to nap, while the opportunity is here!


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## Jennifer3141

Well, I got my period yesterday and it's an incrediblyy heavy one. I seriusly need to get back into exercising and eating better because those extra ten pounds mean my cycles are getting longer and longer.

Kerri, how are you doing today? Any blood drawn in the past few hours?!?


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## roslyn

I've decided to at a minimum exercise three days a week. I absolutely abhor exercise (except for lifting weights--for some reason I love that) but anything else bores me to tears. I don't even want to talk about how much weight I have to lose. I'm also going off sugar and alcohol. I'm not much of a drinker, but I'm an absolute sugar junkie. Usually when I go off both the weight just pours off. I've probably overly-indulged in both in the past few months, and need to lay off. Of course, dh will pout if I don't bake, so I have to have a will of iron to resist my cookies, cakes and brownies.

The hubster took me on a mini-vacation this past weekend. It really helped with the blues. I go to the doctor on Thursday for the HSG. Then maybe, finally I'll be done with this part of the program. I don't think I have any more blood draws scheduled. Unless, of course, something is wrong.

I use the Neutrogena SPF30 on my face. I don't if it comes in a stronger version, but it doesn't sting. I don't like sunscreen at all because it tends to be oily, but I know I have to use it.


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## lolalapcat

As a matter of fact Jenn, they took 7 more vials yesterday. Only 2 more blood draws, thank heavens. Thanks for asking! I am the very pale person you meet on the street, wearing spf 2000 and drained of blood.

The lab informed me yesterday that they messed up one of my tests from Saturday. They are not supposed to be doing the tests, the requisition form states that very clearly, my clinic is. So I am despairing at the thought of all this time, all this effort, all this blood, all the time and money, and the potential of not getting enough information out of it.

You know the straw that broke the camel's back? I'm on my knees here. The camel is requesting a vacation.

And look at this segue....Roslyn, your DH rocks for taking you on a mini vacation! That is so sweet, and such good timing. Good luck with the HSG. I am anxious to hear results, of course. Hurry up and wait.

I actually like exercise, if it's a fun workout video (Latin dance, belly dance, Paula Abdul dance, even Richard Simmons.) But my DH is around a lot, and I don't want an audience....theoretically, I'll set up workout space in the basement. Someday. When I have a spare moment to finish cleaning the basement out. I guess that's exercise too.

King Arthur flour has a whole wheat cookbook out, I intend to order it, along with America's Test Kitchen's light cooking cookbook. I already sneak whole wheat flour into cakes and cookies, so it's right up my alley.

What about baking with Splenda? I also cut all the oil in recipes by 1/3 to 1/2, with no complaints. Enova scares me a little, but that would be another way to cut calories. I'm a big fan of making food healthier, instead of cutting it out all together. Which may be why I have put on a few pounds, so really, don't listen to me!


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## roslyn

I had my saline infusion sonogram today, it wasn't too bad. I'm delighted to know that there's no fibroid after all. He said he doesn't have all my bloodwork back, but is concerned about my elevated glycemic numbers. I suspected for quite sometimes that I either had diabetes or pre-diabetes. Even more reason to get these extra thirty pounds off my fat hide. Unfortunately we don't have our next visit until April 2. It must be nice to be so popular. I hate all this waiting.

On the depression front I must say I'm pretty frustrated with Welbutrin. The side effects listed include weight loss and a heightened libido. Not bad for an anti-depressant, huh? Of course, those aren't the side effects I got. No, I got the horrific insomnia, hives and itching. So, now I'm off Welbutrin. Why is it that all the good drugs make me itch, and why on earth did it take six weeks to start? I can't take morphine or hydrocodone for the same reason.


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## lolalapcat

Roslyn, congratulations on no fibroid! That is wonderful news, not at all what I expected to hear! I'm just going to revel in that for a moment, happy news from a medical exam.

And a saline infused sonogram, never heard of such a thing. There's a whole wide world of procedures out there.

Scary about the glycemic level--diabetes scares the heck out of me. Do you have a family history of it? Get on to your exercise regimen, Ros!

Sorry you are having hives because of the Wellbutrin. You must have a sensitive system, if you have reacted that way to other medications. Yuck. Had it been enough time that you were detecting it was working?

My series of tests is done, hooray! I've never been so happy to have my period start. Of course it came a day early, which is really unusual, so that's something new to worry about. It was just an odd cycle in several different ways, and THAT'S the one they tested. Sigh.

Hope you all are hanging in there.


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## roslyn

I'm so glad your testing is over Keri. I know its a relief to have it done. I feel the same way. My cycle was weird this month too. I ovulated on CD 10 instead of my usual 14, so my period was a couple days early. That actually worked out to the good because I wasn't on my period when I went on our mini-vacation. Its probably nothing to worry about. I think we watch our bodies more closely than most folks. So we notice anomalies that wouldn't even register with others. That's good, but it can also cause us unnecessary stress.

I'm delighted they did the SIS instead of the HSG which is what I thought I'd be having. For the SIS they just fill your uterus with saline water and then do a transvaginal ultrasound. The little catheter they use to open your uterus cramps just a little bit at first, but it isn't nearly as bad as the HSG was. (I'd taken Advil beforehand, thinking I would be having the awful HSG. It might hurt worse without it.) They told me I was a 'real pro.' Of course I am. My uterus has been looked at by every doctor in the state!







I was so thrilled when he told me there was no fibroid. He figured maybe I had a cyst or something before, but now my uterus is 'beautifully fluffy.' (Man, it must be weird to be a ob. A 'fluffy' uterus? And who would've thought I'd actually want to have one?)

Yeah, the Welbutrin deal is a bit of a bummer. My doctor's going to cut my dosage and see how that works. I have always had the strangest reaction to drugs. I always get the side effects no one else gets. My doctor said I'm the first person she's ever seen that's gotten hives from Welbutrin. Of course, she also said that doesn't surprise her. They all know that I don't react normally to drugs.

The diabetes thing has gotten me so frightened I didn't even put sugar in my tea this morning. I've always been terrified of diabetes, and somehow knew that someday I'd get it. I don't know why I've always been so afraid of it. No one in my family has it. Of course, everyone in my family is wonderfully skinny. I tend to be an emotional eater, and a grazer. So its not surprising I put on the pounds. But I'm working on it.


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## lolalapcat

Roslyn, you are right, we pay more attention to our cycles than 'normal' people. And the anomolies disturb me, I wanna know what the heck is going on!

Okay, your uterus has been around the block more than mine, but lots of people have seen mine and I've never gotten a uterine compliment! I can't believe I'm jealous of your fluffy uterus! Paints quite the picture, doesn't it?

I'm a grazer too (picture a pretty black and white Holstein, snacking on a grassy prairie). I take fruit to work, and keep microwave popcorn around, to head myself off at the pass, otherwise I'll buy candy and chips for snacks. But now my Dad (who is my boss) has discovered Ben and Jerry's, so every couple of days he picks up a pint, and wants help eating it...it is sooooo good! My best plans, thrown in the freezer!


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## roslyn

I dunno Keri, everytime I he said 'fluffy' I just kept picturing my uterus in a lovely pink angora sweater. Then I kept imagining Johnny Depp playing Ed Wood in a lovely pink angora sweater. Then it gets weird!









Bad Dad to brink in the B&J's. I can't remember the last time I had ice cream. I used to love it. Now, not so much. And that's a good thing. I can't even blame it for being overweight!


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## gretasmommy

pink angora sweater??!!!!

Too funny!

Ooooohhhhh. Cherry Garcia. Now, why did you have to bring up Cherry Garcia, Keri?! I am really, really trying to eat better . . . . . and exercise - I went to the gym this morning and did the Body Pump class. I feel better (except for the 4 Girl Scout cookies I ate tonight!!!) every day. I need to drop some weight and start feeling better about myself. Little steps, every day.

I have stopped paying attention to my cycles. For me, doing so hasn't helped. I have stopped temping and doing anything more than marking them down on the family calendar. I am hopeful that in a few months I can begin to move forward, but for now, life is just day by day. That's the best I can do.


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## Mindi22

Dang, this thread is cracking me up... Keri and Roslyn, you ladies are too funny!









Roslyn, sorry to hear about your troubles with the meds and sugar stuff... If you want, send me a pm, and I can give you some good anti-inflammatory suppliments to take (if you want to take more) since diabetes is essentially an inflammation driven disease... (Don't worry, I won't take offense if you don't want any information, either... I know you've gone the gamut with doctors and such)

Here's my update: I've been pondering testing again... the second test I took was pretty much negative (I think you had to really hallucinate a line - might have just been the depression from where the reagent is on the test)... but, no cycle yet, and my boobs have been sore in a weird way, and this morning I've been feeling a little bit nauseus... I figure if I do get a positive test, then I can be really sure that it's positive from a pregnancy and not from the D&C if I've had a negative test between, right??? But I'm a little bit afraid to test again, I can't decide if I'm ready for a positive or not. On the one hand, I'm past ready, on the other, do I have the energy to go through it all again if it ends early???

And speaking of things ending early, this weekend is my due date from my summer miscarriage... and it's my birthday tomorrow... so I'm a bit out of sorts overall.... actually emotionally right now am fine, earlier this week, not so much.... I'm sure there are a few more rollercoasters to ride.

Gretasmommy - I can so relate to the whole not monitering thing. I've been doing the same thing, I feel like if I'm monitering everything, I start to become obsessive, so at least for this cycle, I'm not temping or anything... Maybe I'll start again next time, but not right now.

A friend of mine asked me if I was mad at my body, and I realized that, yes, I am! Pissed off, in fact.. twice it's let me down, not so much by having that lovely termed "fetal demise", but more because it didn't let me know, and I had to resort to surgery twice to solve the problem... And lets not even talk about the whole weaning thing, since Brian weaned himself with the summer pregnancy... My DH has been trying to encourage me to get moving and exercise and all that BS, but no wonder I don't want to.... Why should I take care of my body for all the good it's done me lately???

On a positive note, I know where I am with regards to that, which is the first step in moving forward, right? I just need to be angry for a bit, then I'll start being good to myself. I signed up to do the Avon Breast Cancer Walk in May, so I'm gonna have to start walking a bit to get in shape!







And I've also agreed to do the Danskin Mini-Triathlon in July, so I've got some events to work towards (which is really how I work best) and even if I'm pregnant, I figure I can walk, and for the tri, at least do the swim, and maybe the bike.... So I am planning on moving forward....

Ok, I've babbled on for awhile... Thank you all for being so supportive, it's so nice to have a support system, even if we can only give each other virtual hugs!








:
Mindi


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## lolalapcat

Roslyn, you have the best dressed uterus on the block! I'm taking mine out shopping.

The charting for me is revealing some issues in my cycle that may be contributing to the m/c's, and I am comfortable obsessing about things...there is so little I can control, but I can chart. And I LOVE finding out what is wrong with my body.

I am not a normal person. In case that wasn't patently obvious!

Okay, here is my theory on Body vs. Occupant: I feel sorry for my body. It hasn't asked for this, it's not its fault it has the autoimmune issue or the m/c's. I have put this poor body through such trials...HSG, lap surgery, d&c, dozens of t/v u/s's, I don't even want to guess how many vials of blood, not to mention the physical trauma of the m/c's.

If I decide to proceed with the second lap surgery, they will do another HSG, while I am under anasthesia. I may not allow it. Why in the world would they need to do another one? Even if I don't feel it, it is still such a nasty thing to do to my body. Poor thing. I have gotten very protective of it.

Mindi, I hope you figure out the preg/not preg mystery soon. That would be maddening.

Very cool, the Avon walk and mini-triathalon---look at you go! Me, I took the stairs instead of the escalator yesterday. Baby steps.

May I inquire about your anti inflammatory information? You have piqued my curiosity.

Andrea, eating a mere 4 GS cookies is a huge accomplishment!

I still do a lot of 'one day at a time'. Today, I can get through okay. I hope your today is manageable.


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## roslyn

Thanks MIndi, I'd love to have the information. I don't know all that much about diabetes, except that it scares me to death. (Clearly it doesn't frighten me enough to lay off the sugar, but I've done pretty well.) I do have some imflammatory problems with my hands that according to the rheumatologist is not arthritis, but they don't know what it is. (Story of my life, isn't it? There's something wrong, and the doctors haven't a clue!)

I've never had a pregnant/not pregnant quandary. That must drive you nuts.

I don't think I'm really mad at my body per se. I think I'm more mad at myself. Maybe if getting pregnant were the issue, or if my miscarriages were earlier I would be angry at my body. But somehow in the back of my mind I keep thinking that I must have done something wrong. I think about the cold medicine that I took, even though it was one dose, and it was on the approved list. I think about all manner of crazy stuff I can't even be sure I did. Of course, my doctor gets frustrated with me. He always points out the number of women out there who abuse drugs and alcohol during pregnancy and go on to have healthy babies. I think more and more as I go through this my OB is becoming a friend. That day he chased me down in the parking lot to give me a hug sticks out in my mind. I've never had a doctor become a friend, its strange, but kind of neat too.

Its beautiful here today. I'm taking the little guy to the park. I'm a true southerner, madly in love with sunshine. My daffodils are blooming and my tulips are coming up. I'm so thrilled. Of course, we'll get a cold snap sometime in mid-March that'll kill everything in sight, but I'm going to enjoy it until then!









http://www.facets.org/images/ed%20wood.jpg


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## Jennifer3141

Hi everyone!

Spring is temporarily springing here and I'm envious of Roslyn's fluffy uterus and daffodils. I'll take the kids to the park tomorrow. It looks like the world is made of mud right now.









Great. Now I'm craving Ben & Jerry's. Thanks Keri!

I have nothing to report cycle wise. I'm approaching O but DH and I are in the middle of a fight. So, it won't be this month either!









Jen


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## Mindi22

Apologies for blatently mutilating the title of that wonderful book... but damn, it really describes my life right now...

It really started on Friday, when I received a package of stuff ordered on EBay. I got DS a couple of Wiggles VHS tapes, and two Wiggles tapes (which were the part of the order I really wanted... you see where this is going, right?) So I get the package, it's got a few holes in it, the wrapping of the package was crap, pardon my french... apparently, the tapes had fallen out during shipping. Bummer... they weren't new, they were used, and it's not like he can pull more off his shelf and send me new ones.... I wouldn't have just gotten the VHS tapes, nice, but hardly necessary... the tapes seem very hard to find and DS would love them for car rides. In and of itself, this wasn't really huge, just annoying and frustrating.

As I've mentioned, today is my birthday. It is also my original due date from my summer pregnancy that ended in a miscarriage. So I knew this was going to be difficult because of that. But, my family that was around knew also, and had been told beforehand that I was probably going to need a little extra TLC. Sound great, right?

So DH, DS and I joined together with my Mom and Dad to go to NYC yesterday, and spend the night, taking in the Museum of Natural History for DS while there, and Ethiopian food for me... I get a phone call during dinner from the person taking care of my cat while we were out of town (he's diabetic, and needs shots twice per day), and I find out that we have water in our basement...

So we cut our trip short, left NYC early this morning (meaning I didn't get to see the Bodies exhibit that I wanted to see) and hurried home. Ugh... the basement is a mess... it's not nearly as bad as it could have been, but damn, even a few inches of water creates chaos... and while going through what got soaked, found a box full of smaller picture boxes that were full of unsorted photos... I've literally been around the world, and these were pictures from everywhere that I've been... places, people, etc... I'm pretty sure they are ruined.

And then there's my grandmother's writing desk... a beautiful antique desk whose legs were off because when I moved (yes, three years ago) the screw holes were stripped and needed fixing. Thankfully, it was upside down on top of a comforter, so it was only resting on something wet rather than sitting in water.... but the entire desk will need refinishing now.

Oh, and the clean up people just came by, and said that this is most likely not covered by insurance... and will run us about 2000.... just for the cleanup, not the rebuild afterwards...

... and to top it off, I'm not pregnant....

I think I'll move to Australia....








:
-Mindi


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## gretasmommy

Oh, Mindi!!!! What an awful day.








I sure hope things turn for the better soon!

At least your cat's okay . . . .(trying here, to look on the brighter side). We have a diabetic cat on insulin twice dily, and I always worry about him when we go away.

Take care. Perhaps you deserve a nice massage!


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## lolalapcat

Mindi, happy belated birthday...even in the light of all that happened, I hope at least part of it was good.

Oh, the pictures...never mind the money to fix the basement, I mourn with you for the loss of the pictures. I hope some of them can be salvaged, surely there is a way.

At least your Grandma's desk survived okay. I'll help you refinish it, that sort of thing is fun!

What was the source of the water? (Asked by somebody who has been through it, ours was bad gutters and not enough slope away from the house).








At least you were distracted by disaster on your due date. My last one was so calm and quiet, I got to think about it all day. In hindsight, I would have appreciated a water leak or something.

Insurance on the eBay package? At least you can give him appropriate feedback for the bad packaging.

Hang in there! It has got to get better.

Jenn, sorry about bringing up Ben & Jerry's. Oh crap, there I go again!

Roslyn, the link is priceless! I was laughing out loud at work, where I sneaked a look at this thread. All I could picture....

Andrea, how are you doing? And please don't say fine, you know that's not what I am looking for.


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## roslyn

Mindi, what a bummer. Some of the pictures might be salvageable. My dh works in photography and does that type of work all the time. It costs a mint usually, but they're doing amazing things these days, so don't despair. I worry about that type of thing every time we go out of town. I make the hubster disconnect the washing machine because a friend had a flood in her home when her hose ruptured. (Yeah, I'm neurotic as all get out!)

I hate when people don't package things properly. Those ebay folks charge an arm and a leg for shipping and handling. The least they could do is package the stuff.


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## Mindi22

Thanks everyone for your kind words... today was a lot better... although I'm still a bit bummed about everything that happened yesterday...

And I discovered today that the test I used to determine my non-pregnancy was expired.... crap. So maybe the pregnancy thing is up in the air again??? There seem to be mixed reports about whether expired tests cause false positives or false negatives... but I guess the concensus is that the results aren't reliable.

I'll post more tomorrow... gotta go help DH fold laundry!









-Mindi


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## roslyn

Well, I got another one of those lucky last-minute cancellations with my RE and had my follow up appointment today. I now know what probably caused my baby to be still. My insulin levels are very, very high. I've had several diabetes tests and its never shown up because my body has compensated and my sugar levels are normal. So, now I'm on Metformin, and of course diet and exercise. He said with any luck we should be able to start trying again in late April, early May. Its really good to know, but its also heartbreaking in a way. I'm thrilled that its something thats treatable and I don't need surgery, but I wish I'd known beforehand. I didn't really have any symptoms, or at least not any that I noticed.

Feeling kind of down today, guess I'll start having those mood cycles now that I'm off Wellbutrin. I would've had to get off it anyway before I started trying to conceive again, so I suppose its for the best. But I'm really feeling it today. Of course, it could be that I'm just hungry as all get out! :d


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## gretasmommy

Roslyn- I am so glad that you have an answer (I find I am always looking for answers), and that you can do something about it. How could you have possibly known beforehand, given your body's amazing ability to compensate? Here's to better months to come.

Mindi- Are you kidding me? You are better than the old soaps my mom used to watch when I was a kid!!! Is she pregnant? Is she not? Would you just go and POAS (a new stick) for goodness sake???!!!!! I can't take it anymore!

Truly, I will be thinking positive thoughts for you!

Keri- How's this - great! Seriously, today was a pretty terrific day - it's G's birthday, and despite my terrible cough (I really hope it's nothing, though ignoring it is becoming more and more difficult), wehad a really nice evening. I cancelled this radio gig I have every Wednesday morning so I could hang out a bit with her before work, and then I also ended a bit early so I could actually make it home by 5 for "breakfast for dinner" (the b-day person gets to choose the dinner, and of course, G chose "breakfast for dinner"). Then she saw her castle cake for the first time - and it was a big hit. So, all-in-all it was a good day.

I have bene feeling a bit more downlately. Mostly really envious of PG folks. They are recently popping up all around me - 2 close to me that are due withing weeks of my 2 due dates. I know that they _don't know, but still, I just find it difficult to talk about their pregnancies with them - something they each seem to want to do a lot. I am trying to be gnetle with myself, understanding that this terrible jealousy is normal. My head knows that, but my heart is so sore, you know. I really feel so empty many days. I am trying to work on my short term goals - getting into better shape - but even in this, my body is thwarting me! I cannot work out witht his hacking cough that makes me sound as though I have TB! (I don't, it's just an awful cough).

Breathe.

This will get better, because it must. Absolutely it must.

Thanks for asking. Tomorrow will bring a better day._


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## lolalapcat

Roslyn---an ANSWER....that is so huge. That lifts the shroud of mystery, the 'why, why, why?'. Yes, it is tragic that you did not learn this earlier, but look at the power of that information now. That is awesome!

Of course you are down, you just found out what took Camille from you. It is exciting news because it's fixable, but so sad, because you finally know why you lost your little girl.









Eat something, soak up some sunshine, take your son outside to move your bodies....the same stuff I should be doing, but don't have time for (no, my MDC time is not negotiable!)

Mindi, we are waiting...

Andrea--I'm so pleased you had a really good day! Happy belated birthday to Greta! It's nice to be reminded that you can still experience happiness, isn't it?

And I do understand...I used to be a pretty content, happy person. This whole pregnancy/loss process has changed me in such fundamental ways. I miss the old me, who wasn't ugly and jealous and weepy and emotional. And I don't know if that bell can be un-rung, kwim?

It does get better, I don't want to take away your hope. I do feel much, much better the farther away we get from my m/c's. But there is an undercurrent of sorrow. Well, heck, most people probably have that. I'm sitting here feeling sorry for myself, and I'm stopping. It's like the Grief Meditation book says, a loss makes you join the human family. Here we are.

One day at a time. Keep breathing.


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## gretasmommy

I *was* generally a happy, optimistic person.

Now I am someone who is trying to get back to that place, but I really don't think that's possible. I am forever changed. I am hopeful that I can reach a better place than this gloomy place filled with envy and jealousy. Today i saw a young woman, about 4 months or so along, and I heard that she is unhappy about the pregnancy, too late to do anything about it and is probably going to give the baby up for adoption. Now, please don't misunderstand me. That's wonderful for the prospective family. Wonderful. But why does she get to carry a baby when i can't? When we all can't? It's just so terribly unfair, you know.

Sigh.

I hate myself this way - and I am not always like this. But it's always lurking under the happy face I wear most days, waiting for an opportunity to take over.

But you are right. I can choose to allow myself to remain under this cloak of sadness, or I can choose to push myself out a bit, from under the darkness and back into the world. I am going to bake a cake today, a castle cake ofr G's party this weekend (and freeze it of course), and I will knit more of my sock. I will make myself some tea with honey. Then sit by the fire.

Sound good? Anyone want to join me?


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## Jennifer3141

Hi everyone.

Mindi, your weekend almost made ME cry. Ick. I hope things start oerking up for you soon. You sure deserve some fun to come your way.

Oh Roslyn. Well, now you know. I've known for a long time that mine was a progesterone problem. For me, knowing hasn't really been that much of a comfort. May you feel some grace in knowing.

It's ok about the ice cream, Keri. We hit Coldstone yesterday. I'm feeling better now.









Jen


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## roslyn

I feel better today. Me and the little guy did one of his favorite things--went for a walk in the rain. Well, actually a walk/run in the rain. (He never walks if he can run, such a rowdy little guy. I love that about him.) We run for a while, then stop to pick up a snail. Run for while, chase a bird. Run for a while, splash in a mud puddle. You get the picture. Doubt that it was aerobic, but it was certainly loads of fun. He laughs uncontrollably every time I run. My feelings would be hurt, but he has the world's most infectious laugh. You can't help but laugh with him. So we had a hoot. Came home to grilled cheese sandwiches and soup, then lay down together for a nap. All in all, it was a good day.

The medication makes me a little nauseated in the morning, but its my understanding that if you can get through two weeks of it, it gets immensely better. So, I'll hang in there.

Andrea, I know how you feel. I felt that more keenly with the first one. I was still a social worker and constantly dealt with folks who'd mistreated their children. I just wanted to scream at them because they didn't understand the precious gift they'd been given. I'm not in that atmosphere anymore, and I'm glad because I probably WOULD be screaming at people and that's not good.

I think grief has made me a better human being. Prior to 2002 I'd never lost anyone close to me. Then within six months we lost my father-in-law, our baby and my mother. And I had major surgery. It was agonizing, and I really didn't think my marriage would survive it. Doing counseling and working as a social work I know that loss is one of the hardest things a marriage can endure. And we had three of them back-to-back, but somehow we muddled through. One of the things that stands out for me is all those years prior to 2002 that I spent counseling folks through their grief issues and telling them that 'grief is a process.' I'm really surprised that no one slapped me silly for that. Grief isn't a process. Grief is a huge, gaping wound in your soul that makes you want to crawl in a hole and pull it in after you. I know that now, and that makes me a better person.


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## gretasmommy

What a nice day you had, Roslyn! Sounds heavenly!!!!! It's snowing buckets here. Hopefully it won't be too bad for G's party tomorrow! Alex just finished witht eh decorations - a medusa, a dragon, a castle, and a hydra - it's an Atalanta (female adventurer) party. Alex has been telling G Atalanta stories at bedtime for awhile, and I was so relieved when she asked for this theme - we've temporarily escaped the Barbie party!

You know, some days are better than others. Today was a bad day, but tomorrow will be a better day. Two different women asked me when I was giving G a little brother/sister. When does it stop?????????

Sigh. Off to bed, a good night's rest can only help.


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## Mindi22

Thanks everyone for all your support... Well, I did indeed POAS (A = Another!) and it was negative. The test wasn't expired, and I'm pretty sure it's correct. This week got a little better, but I'm waiting to declare my do-over birthday... I'm in the process of a take home examination, and I have to be done with it this weekend, so I'll declare my new Birthday after I'm totally done with that!

The basement is drying out... we're still not sure about what the insurance coverage will be if anything, and I haven't yet gone through all my pictures to see what can be saved.

roslyn, glad you're feeling better.

Andrea, isn't the snow amazing? I don't know about ME, but here in MA we were out without jackets just a few days ago... gotta love New England weather, eh?

Jen, I'm sorry I almost made you cry, I appreciate the empathy, though!









Keri - Where do you live? I'm wondering how I can get the desk to you for refinishing??









I've turned over a new leaf today, I met with a woman who does holistic nutrition counselling, and I've signed up for a six month program with her. I'm looking forward to seeing some changes. She also specializes in helping women who are trying to get pregnant.... so I think it'll be good on a lot of levels. And on Monday I'll be starting my walking training for the Avon Walk.

Thanks everyone for being here! I'm so appreciative.. you all rock my world
















-Mindi


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## gretasmommy

Sounds like a good program, Mindi. I am working towards losing weight (much needed ) and exercising more again. I have had so many weeks these past months when it's been difficult to take care of myself. I am feeling the need to focus on my own health for now.

I hope you are able to salvage more than you initially thought from your basement!

Today was G's birthday party - and what a day it was! It began with about 8 inches of snow followed by sleet. But that's New England for ya! It was a great day, though, and most of the guests made it and we had so much fun!

Off to knit and get to bed early!


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## lolalapcat

Roslyn, I want to go for a walk in the rain with you and your son! What a beautiful day you had.

Your description of grief is oh-so-accurate. Sometimes I get very tired from having to hold the big gaping wound together, so other people don't see it. It takes both of my hands and most of my attention, that is why the other details in my life have gotten so shaggy.

Sigh.

Mindi, I am in lovely Nebraska, where there was a biting North wind yesterday morning, lovely warm sunny afternoon. Just take the coat with you, you never know! I'll be looking for the desk...

I have a dresser that my grandparents bought used, shortly after their wedding in 1936. Someone refinished it, and I am trying to figure out how I can get the polyurethane off without making it look even more refinished. I'm big on oil instead of poly, and leaving the furniture as undisturbed as possible.

Andrea, I'm glad you had a fun party day for Greta! Those little patches of joy remind you what life is _supposed_to be like....

I'm off to the dermatologist today. Going in public with no makeup is actually concerning me more than what Dr. Skin is going to say. Vanity, what a waste of time.


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## Jennifer3141

I woke up to three inches of snow today. <sigh>
The snow was almost all gone!!

Keri, I've been reading your thoughts on the other giant thread and I like the way you think.

Roslyn, I'm envious for the walk you had in the rain!! I wanna live in the south!

I'm O'ing. I'm still not ready. This is taking me lmuch longer than I thought it would but I'm still too ambivalent.


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## lolalapcat

Jenn, I'm about to pry. Ignore if you want. You have had other losses, other m/c's?

I have been learning about the cumulative effect of grief, obviously.

Thanks for the compliment. You have noted the insanity, haven't you? I haven't done much rereading on the giant thread, I'm not even sure how I think!

Sorry about the snow. All that moisture is good for the cherry and apple trees that you have up there, isn't it? I just bought a different kind of Michigan apple, Empires. I'll send some of our warm weather your way!

Dr. Skin, who is preternaturally preserved, went ahead with scraping and burning my nose. Ugh. Boy, do I feel pretty. At least it may be over with. For now.

Take care, friends!


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## Jennifer3141

You may pry away, my dear. This is probably my 6th M/C. I frankly stopped keeping track and stopped taking pregnancy tests. DH and I haven't used B/C since April 2001. Well, we've used condoms twice since DS was born.









Anyway, before I found a smart doctor who realized that there was a pretty serious progesterone issue, there were lots and lots of losses. I'm not a "dweller" by nature. I tend to move on and "forget" until something comes up to me and smacks me across the face again.

My saddest/funniest MC story is this one:

I had just found out that DH and I would "never be able to have kids without direct medical intervention <IVF>." IVF was my line in the sand. There was no way I'd even consider that and DH would not consent either. I think it's great if other women make that choice but that's just not a way I'd ever want to be a mother. Anyway...

DH and I were at the park where we were married. And my idiot little dog was sitting next to me on the riverbank until she for some unknown reason, fell down the 6 foot bank into this fast moving steam. DH said he'd handle it and jumped into the stream to get her. All the while, he's yelling up, "Are you ok? How are you doing?"

He's 6'3. He looks a little silly carrying our Shih Tzu around. He looked a whole lotta silly carrying her around in the mud.

He struggles back up the bank with the dog where we all sit while I cry some more. Not 10 minutes later, the







: dog does it again. There were FEET between us and the bank and this dipstick dog would somehow just slide off the riverbank.

We decided she was the reincarnated version of a slapstick comedien.

I clearly had to stop crying before my dog drowned. I got pregnant with DD the next month. I needed a lot of progesterone but she stuck it out.

I'm a huge believer in black comedy. My best friend is too. Laughing through my tears has gotten me through much.

The ambivalence is new though.


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## roslyn

I do love living in the south, and warm spring rains are one of my favorite things. Unfortunately, spring is much too short and then we get the summers where you can't go outside for fear of heat prostration and imminent death!









Keri, I'm glad the doctor was able to treat you without getting too invasive, but scraping and burning any body part sounds really scary. Can you just use a stripper on the dresser, and then finish it with tung oil? I bought a solid maple bedroom set years ago that someone had painted pistachio green. I stripped the chest of drawers and now I'm working on the dresser. The tung oil finish is beautiful.

Jennifer, I'm so sorry for all your losses. My heart aches for you. No one knows the sorrow that a mother's heart endures.


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## lolalapcat

Jenn









I find it gets harder to put myself up for the heartache again, even though I desperately yearn for the end result. Your heart apparently needs a little more time to heal, to toughen up again. It will happen.

Your dog, what a story! Just when you needed some levity, she brought it to you. Amazing. You painted quite the picture, too...

Thanks for sharing.

I'm waiting on the results of the bloodwork, to see if progesterone is my issue also. Hoping it is. My last RE didn't have any interest in checking hormone levels, where did you come up with a doc who would?

Roslyn, I'm pretty careful with using stripper on furniture, since it can take off the patina of the wood. Pistachio green paint? Goodbye!!!! I redid an 1930's era dresser that had 3 coats of white paint. Oh, how beautiful underneath!

I want the polyurethane off the my Grandparents' dresser, but I want to retain any use marks---where their hands touched, the wear patterns. I might just be very very careful, and use scant amounts at a time.

Love tung oil! It makes the wood feel good, satiny. Mindi, are you taking notes? We are still trying to figure out our wood floors, we tried linseed oil as a finish, and it doesn't hold up to the dog very well. Tung is apparently too soft to use on floors. Don't want poly. Conundrum.


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## roslyn

Keri, have you heard anything about the progesterone issue yet? My doctor checked everything but the kitchen sink for me. I really like him. At our first meeting we sat down in his office and had a discussion about what I wanted and what my expectations were. I told him that first and foremost I want another child, and I don't want another miscarriage. To that end I needed to know, if at all possible what caused the miscarriage. I told him my suspicions including both thyroid and PCOS. I think if what you're asking for is reasonable doctors shouldn't be hesitant to check it for you. After all, you are your own best doctor. You only have one patient and he has hundreds. Fortunately, that's my OB's attitude as well. (My dh says I like him so much because he's afraid of me and does what I tell him to do!







)

I think if you're judicious with the stripper it should be okay. I don't care for polyurethane either, but I certainly wouldn't want to try sanding it off.

I'm just trying to adjust to life on Metformin and the Insulin Resistance diet. I thought I'd lost four pounds Monday, but when I weighed today I was back to the same weight. My cycle started this past Friday so I don't know if that had anything to do with it or not.


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## lolalapcat

Hi, Roslyn.

Yeah, my doctors don't fear me, but they know that I'm gonna grill them with questions and suggestions! You are right, they have a ton of patients, and I am my own best advocate. I have a rough medical history, a couple of unscrupulous doctors, so I was TAUGHT to question them.

My new Doc sent me some graphs of my hormone tests, and it looks like things are a little low, but not extremely low. I need to talk with them to get an accurate interpretation. But I'm at the tail end of 3 straight weeks at work including weekends, with a sinus infection and taking care of my parents' cats and cleaning their house.....

My Mom was diagnosed with ALS yesterday (Lou Gehrig's disease). We had suspected it, as it runs in the family. But her first neurologist was convinced she did not have it, so we were running on hope.

So now I am going to have new genetic tests done (it's autosomal dominant, so my brother and I have a 50% of carrying the gene) and will try to figure out if this is big enough I SHOULDN'T try to have my own kids.

And now we face the challenge of trying to keep Mom in their home for as long as possible. She has long term care insurance, thank heavens.

Just one more thing. Heap it on, apparently I can take it.

I hope you get things balanced with the new meds and diet. It's a lot to take on, having to analyze everything you eat, seeing food with new eyes.

It seems like it would be your cycle with the 4 pounds, that's a lot to gain in a short time. Water retention. It will go away soon!

Thanks for resurrecting the thread!


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## gretasmommy

Roslyn, I'll bet the 4 pounds is related to your cycle. I am doing phase 1 of the South Beach diet and also, right in the middle of course, my first post m/c cycle decides to rear it's ugly head! Great. Just great. No way to accurately judge my weight loss now. And no chocolate!

Dangerous for my family!

Oh, Keri! I am so sorry to hear about your mom. I hope you are able to work out arrangements for keeping her in her home for a long, long time. DH and I both have terrible family medical histories - all grandparents have had cancer, 2 are dead because of it (one at 37 years old). Two diagnosed before age 40. We joked about this at one point, saying that no one would accept us as egg/sperm donors! But, the thing is, we take many, many chances every day. Each of us. There are numerous opportunities to die every day. Adding in the genetic mix is just more of a burden than I can carry - I read somewhere to face today's problems today, leaving tomorrow's problems for tomorrow.







Good advice. Unless your genetic counselor can tell you for certain that you will pass this along to you children . ... ..well, I just don't that this is the "sign" you aren;t meant to have children - with each m/c I have felt as though perhaps I am not really meant to have more children. I know it sounds a bit crazy, but I am already 38 (when did that begin to sound so old??!!!), and maybe these two losses were genetically doomed babes, leaving before they lived to suffer. I just don't know. I can practically hear my eggs ticking some days.

Well, tick away little eggs. For a while I am going to ignore you and lose some weight and get myself back into some sort of respectable shape! And get my head into a better place . . .

Jenn, I hear you. Like Keri said, my heart needs to heal and toughen up a bit.


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## lolalapcat

Thanks, Andrea.

Your family history is the very type of reminder I need right now....everybody has to deal with something.

And IF I have the gene, I would have a 50% chance of passing it on to a child. I'm not sure it is enough to keep me from trying again for a genetic child (it seems bizarre to label that way). It is fascinating, the number of advances that researchers have made in the 13 years since my Grandma died from ALS. Who knows what another 60 or 70 years will bring?

Both of my paternal grandparents died from cancer---I can't help but think that perhaps today they would have been diagnosed earlier, or treated with different medicines and techniques. As much as I grouse about Western medicine (sorry, A!) I am amazed at the advancements, everything that CAN be done.

Well, so far not on me or my Mom. That's the kicker.

No chocolate is kind of harsh. I think you ought to have chocolate every day. Just a little, like a couple of Kisses. Total deprivation is no fun!

Yesterday I talked with our friends who have the 2 month old boy (who I now know is a screamer!) and the 15 month old. He is 46, she would be 44 now. 38, not old. Repeat it with me, sometimes I need to hear it too!


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## Jennifer3141

Keri, I am so very sorry about your mother. I have no idea how you are coping with everything on your plate.

Roslyn, good look with the metformin. I um, had to leave a pair of panties in my grocery store's restroom when a dosage hit me funny. I'd never poo'd in my pants before.
When I got pregnant with DD, the current thinking then was to go off it - I was THRILLED!
When I got pregnant with DS, the current thinking was to stay on it but I never got back on it after DD.

Losing weight really helped my hormone levels.

I hope it helps you much more than it seemed to help me and that it helps you get your baby very soon!!


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## lolalapcat

Jenn, thanks.

Here's how I am coping: I want to stay in bed and not get up. But my back hurts if I stay in bed too long. So I get up, and since I'm up, I might as well do what I am supposed to be doing. So I'm carrying on by default.

I bought some Bach's Rescue Remedy yesterday, since so many people have suggested it on this board. My brother suggested I dump it over my head. Not a bad suggestion...

And I am deliberately seeking laughter. Sitcoms, comedy movies...I don't want to forget how to laugh!

Wow, the metformin sounds like a challenge.

All of you are inspiring me to exercise. Lucky dog, he'll get to exercise too! I wish I wanted to exercise as much as he does.

Thanks for being here, friends.


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## gretasmommy

You know, Keri, I fluctuate between thinking that 38 is waaaaaay too old, and alternately not so old at all. Depends on the day, really.

Today, 38 feels old. It is good to hear about your friends, having little ones around this age. The thing is, really, that I worry that my 2 m/c's are a sign that we shouldn't walk this path. That we wouldn't have a healthy baby if we tried again and actually carried to term. What if that's the case, and I ignore this huge warning, keep trying and even supporting a pregnancy doomed from the start . . .. . . honestly, this is what goes through my head at some point every day. I am thining about see an RE. It's been on my mind for a while (though your marathon blood-letting has scared me away a bit, Keri!!!), and I feel ready to at least pick up the phone. Maybe.

I am emotionally exhausted today. Around too many difficult situations this weekend. At passover dinner tonight at a good friend's house, DH really surprised me with his insight - we were sitting across the living room from a good friend due a few weeks after my first loss' due date. I haven;t seen her much lately . . . and I was tearing up a bit at one point, when DH leaned down an whipered in my ear "hey, sweetie, I am right here, in your corner. I get it." It was the sweetest thing! Of course, it did make me run from the room to collect myself and "get the eyelash out of my eye". He's usually not very perceptive!

Anyway, I am off to knit for a while with my sis (she does't knit, we just sit together) and then off to bed early. Good night!


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## lolalapcat

Andrea--

Your DH is fabulous! That is so sweet. He must pay more attention than you realize...

Yeah, I know all about 'the sign', are the multiple miscarriages a sign that I am too stupid to ignore. I tend to lean more towards the idea that there is a medical explanation, just to save my sanity.

Please don't let my marathon bloodletting scare you away from seeing an RE!!! I'm dealing with a different kind of clinic now, the Creighton Method. The month long battery of tests is not something my regular RE ever would have ordered.

Now Roslyn's bloodletting, that should scare you! But you have already had some testing done, haven't you? So that's partway over.

It was about 5 months after my last m/c before I could pick up the phone and make any fertility/pregnancy related calls. A m/c is not a blip on the radar for lots of us, it's much bigger. Multiples complicate it mercilessly, as you are learning. I am sorry. It's a hard road.

My big news---last weekend I shopped for baby clothes for our godson, and actually had fun! Not a teary moment. Went without a hitch. Here, and I thought I might implode or something. I hadn't even had a cocktail with lunch!

Roslyn, Andrea, any other test results on you?

Jenn, hi!


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## roslyn

I've been out of commission for a moment. Fortunately no more tests for me unless I get a BFP. Metformin really put me on my heiny for a moment, but I think I've finally adapted. This is the first day I haven't felt really sick.

I haven't had to abandon my underwear--yet, but that's only because I haven't gone anywhere in a week! I forgot I was taking it and had a celebratory cocktail Saturday night (my book was nominated for a couple awards) and yikes! I seriously thought I was going to the ER. I finally feel better now. I am concerned that I've lost interest in eating or cooking. I'm a bit of a 'foodie' and I have no desire to cook, shop for food or even watch Food TV. I hope its just that I'm feeling bad. Also, having to eat every few hours is seriously hard work. I've reached the point if I never have to cook again I wouldn't miss it.

Oddly enough, I haven't lost any weight, but then I haven't felt well enough to exercise. I hope to get started on a regimen soon. I hope that losing weight will get this insulin situation under control and I can stop with the drugs.

A friend of mine's was nominated for the same award, and we agreed to a vice swap. She's trying to stop smoking, so if she wins I smoke a cigar for her. If I win she'll drink a martini for me. :d

Andrea, I'm sure my bloodletting was an unusual case because I specifically told him I didn't want to leave any stones unturned. You have a very sweet husband. Its so terrific to have a partner who understands.

I'm coming up on my due date and I've been a bit verklempt. I'm hoping to turn the corner emotionally soon.

Keri, that's wonderful. I know it can be hard to deal with other people's pregnancies. I think you have such a generous spirit to be able to handle that. I don't know that I could.

BTW, what's Rescue Remedy? Sounds like something I could really use. I feel drained.


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## gretasmommy

Actually, both of your stories of gallons of blood being drained from your bodies scare me, Keri and Roslyn!!! It's not the needles, but rather the sheer volume of blood!

Deep breath. So, I picked up the phone today, and I made an appt with the RE for early June. I figue, I am not getting any younger, and since when the urge to TTC comes on it is an immediate thing, I figure I ought to talk with her now, while I have no interest in TTC and get some answers (she says optimistically!!!!). I am nervous about it, of course, but I know I need to explore this a bit further before I jump in again. If I jump in again.

Yeh, DH definitely has his good points! I am coming up on my first due date in May. I doubt he'll remember the date, but he's a guy, and those things don't really register with him. Weird, but it's not because he doesn't care (she says to remind herself).

Roslyn- Glad you are feeling better! Hopefully you will turn that emotional corner soon. I have found I live in a bit of a maze, with many emotional corners! Some with loooooonger corridors, though.

Keri- How on Earth did you manage the shopping without tears? You are such an inspiration! I bought yarn to knit a baby blanket for a friend (the same one from the seder Sunday), and I can't even look at it. I will order her something online - it's far easier than in-person shopping.

It will get easier soon . . . ..really it will. I was reading a grief and loss book the other day, the kind with daily meditative thoughts, and it had a particualrly insipiring piece of advice - "possess yourself today in peace. Not thought any action, but by letting fall away those things which trouble or excite you" (as direct a quote as my memory allows!). Fabulous advice, and my new mantra. A good friend gave me this book, and I'll never be able to thank her enough!


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## lolalapcat

Verklempt, what a great word!

Due dates are icky, partly because NOBODY remembers them like we do, so it's a burden to carry alone. Except for here, of course.

Or maybe if someone does remember, they are too afraid to bring it up to us, like they will remind us of something that is better off forgotten. Hmm.

Roslyn, congratulations on your award nominations, that's fabulous! I wish you had felt better...that medicine is some tough stuff. It's good you are starting to feel better.

Andrea, good job on calling the RE! They have some insight that GP's may not. And you've already had some blood tests done, so they won't take that much.

I could shop for baby stuff because my last loss was 10 months ago. That, and I think I'm out of tears. I don't actually know why it was so easy, I'm still surprised, but I'm sure distance from the pain helps.

Yeah, these are the days when you take the hand that is offered, and you never know who may be standing behind it.

"Possess yourself today in peace." Those are words to live by, aren't they?


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## Mindi22

Hi everyone!

Sorry it's been so long. the last few weeks have been really tough for me, I've really been feeling out of sorts and pretty down. I think my hormones are just on a huge roller coaster, and AF still hasn't returned. Been two months now, and while her return with be another reminder of my loss, it will also be a return to some sort of normalcy.

DH thinks I should go back and talk to a therapist, but I'm just not up for it. I'm really trying to exercise and get moving, because I know that helps a ton. I've had a lot of days lately where I'm having trouble keeping my head above water, though. Optimism is really a tough sell right now.

I'm going to go back and read all the posts, but in the meantime, I just thought I'd update a bit (cause I know you all were dying to know how I was!!!)









Did anyone watch House last night, I was bawling by the end, but that was pretty good since I almost didn't watch the episode at all, and in the end, I'm mostly glad I did!

-Mindi


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## Mindi22

Roslyn, glad to hear that you're feeling better. I'd hope for many moons of no more tests, but since the BFP is a criteria for more testing, I'll say that I hope your next tests are due to that, and that they come when you are ready! Also, congrats on the awards! (and should I add congrats on the no lost panties, too??? LOL!)

Keri, good for you on the baby clothes shopping... haven't had to cross that bridge, and I'm pretty sure I'm not there yet. We went into Babies R Us recently to try to find a step stool for my DS, and that was hard enough even just sticking to one section of the store...

Jennifer - ugh, that sounds really horrible! Isn't it crazy what we'll go through to have a baby???

Gretasmommy - good for you for making that phone call! I have been debating back and forth about doing the same thing, can't quite bring myself to yet. And that comment from DH would have left me in a sobbing puddle (but a grateful one)... what a sweetie!

Blessings to you all!
Mindi


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## lolalapcat

Hi, Mindi! I wondered where you were.

Still no AF after 2 months? That's a long time, your hormones must be taking you for quite a ride. Hang in there. You know it's better when the hormones settle down.

It was targeted shopping, not random wandering around. That's got to be why it was easier, I was specifically looking for little summer outfits for my godson. Not just browsing, wishing I could buy baby stuff that wasn't to give away. And I had months to prepare....and I was with a friend.

Roslyn, Rescue Remedy is natural stress relief, flower essences that you can either get with a dropper to put a couple drops on your tongue, or a little spray bottle so you can spritz. It tastes vaguely like Drambuie, or Galliano, one of those dusty bottles on the back shelf of the bar!

I haven't quite figured out if it works, but it makes me feel like I'm doing something. Who wouldn't want an anti-stress pill?

Yeah, Mindi, I keep entertaining the idea of getting some counseling. Time and money, right now I can't imagine scheduling in more than what I already have.


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## gretasmommy

Mindi- The return of AF really is bittersweet, but the feeling of normalcy is worth it. I never thought I'd hear myself say this, but here's to hoping she shows up soon for you! I just finished my first post-m/c AF this time. It was super heavy and crampy, which in a weird sort of way was kinda nice. You know, I have been taking a supplement called Women's Essential (or Essential Women's???), some omega-3's etc to even out the female hormal cycle . . . . DH thinks it helps!

And yes, I was a puddle at the seder when DH was surprisingly sweet and perceptive. After all these years, he can still surprise me!

So you watch HOUSE, Mindi? Wasn't that something???!!! The little fingers! I love that show, but I've got to say, the world of medicine isn't quite that glamorous!

Have I mentioned that we are buying a condo for my mom to move up her and into??!! I am soooooo stressed right now! Off to tuck G in for her nap, nurse my head ache a bit, drink more coffee (it can only help!), and knit a bit of G's tank top despite the foot of new snow outside!


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## roslyn

I'm in deadline hell again. Editor just gave me six projects, plus I've got to have my novel completed by July. And I'm not even halfway there. Its always feast or famine around here. I can make a lot of money, though, so I won't complain, but I won't be coming up for air anytime soon.


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## lolalapcat

Hmm. I used to get all sentimental about AF showing up, now it's a wonderful break from the constant charting of cervical mucus! A mucus vacation.

Roslyn, could you add any more to your schedule?!? Crikey. I can feel the pressure all the way over here!

Good luck, and check in with us when you get a chance or need a break!

Andrea, the snow...wowza. You got clobbered!

We are starting to move my parents into their new house this weekend, and since my Mom can barely walk and can't pack....well, guess who the chief volunteer is? I feel your pain!

So we are moving them, and I have another surgery scheduled for June 15th, with all the accompanying appointments (yes, an hour from here). And people coming to visit, and weddings out of state, in laws' 40th anniversary (Jenn, I'll be in Detroit in July!)....and I'd really like to plant a garden. It's gonna be another plot of weeds, I can see it coming.


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## Mindi22

Keri, weeds are plants too...









Roslyn, wow... that deadline is coming up fast! Good luck with that.

Gretasmommy - yep, I'm kinda a TV addict, and House is one of my faves... I was in tears watching those little fingers... so sweet, and I loved how that even touched House, bastard that he is! (but yes, I've got a little crush... why is that???)

Well, AF arrived this morning, with some horrible cramps along with it... so "yeah!", but "ugh!" thrown in.

I'm gonna keep this short so I can go curl up with DH...
Thanks for all the kind thoughts!


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## Jennifer3141

Hi everyone!

Keri, you're going to be so much closer. You'll only be 5 or so hours away. I cannot get DH to go to Detroit to save my life, but I'd go to see you! I'm laughing over the "mucous vacation" thing.

Roslyn, I'm going to miss you here but it sounds like you have a lot of work to do. And since you'll be rich when it's done, I'm coming down there for lunch this summer.








Can we help you out with some dirty limmericks or anything??

I've decided that I'm ready to TTC again. Maybe not right this second, but I can see myself trying again in the summer. I really do want a third child and it's taken me a long time to get here. So there's my intention, Universe!

DS has a speech/developmental evaluation this Wednesday. He doesn't speak any words yet and he has a few personality quirks that I want evaluated. I have an inkling that there's either Asperger's or something very similar going on and I need to figure out how to help DS deal with it. Banging his head on the floor incessantly doesn't seem to be helping.







:

I hope all your Easters were glorious - for those of you who celebrate Easter. I'm a pagan. I'll freaking celebrate anything.


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## lolalapcat

Hooray, Mindi, for AF finally showing up! There's something comforting about your body returning to normal, is there?

Weeds are plants too....and they must die! DH has put CHEMICALS on our lawn already, the horror! But I have caved, as our yard is the crappiest on the block. Have dandelions? You know from whence they came, yes, it's us!

I would like some tomatoes, though. Crabgrass isn't too tasty!

Jenn, sometime I hope we will make it back up to Charlevoix, then we will be right in your neighborhood!

I hope, hope, hope your DS is okay. It's good that you are catching some signs early and can get him checked. That must be a tricky thing to diagnose. Please keep us posted!

Easter was okay, lots of work. Now I need a day off! Hope your pagan bunny celebration was fun! You did celebrate, didn't you?

You women who are courageous enough to TTC already....I feel like I'm the little kid with training wheels, and all of you are biking off into the sunset.


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## gretasmommy

Keri- I'm keeping my training wheels on with you! I have an appt for early June, and no thoughts of TTC yet. Too painful for me right now.

Roslyn- I sure hope you are a quick typist! I sure am not!!!!

Mindi- Sorry you are having a crampy cycle. My first cycle each time was pretty crampy and heavy with odd clots, and this second time was even worse. Now that that's over, I hope things return to normal for you.

Jennifer- I hope your son's evaluations prove helpful.

For me, things are going well enough, I suppose. I will be happier once the snow leaves! My mom will be moving up here nearby the first weekend in may. Busy times. It's nice to have some distraction, as her arrival date will be my first due date. No wonder I have been feeling mopey.


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## roslyn

Two articles down, four to go. I just spent the day writing about fourth of July celebrations in North Alabama. You wouldn't believe how many there are.

I'm going to a different conference. Its in September. No point in killing myself. I had a very laid-back Easter. For the first time ever we had a store-bought cake. I don't think anyone cared. I'm still feeling a little crazed, but its not nearly as bad as I thought it would be.

I've been eating sweets. A major no-no of course. Metformin makes your tummy upset when you eat sweets. You'd think that would be enough of a deterrant. But when I'm stressed I go for the sweets. I hope I'll calm down now.


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## lolalapcat

Andrea, that explains some of the mopeyness. Due dates are a real kick in the head, no matter how much I try to minimize them. Yuck. At least you will be busy.

Roslyn, it sounds like you are powering through!

I belong to a cookbook club (yes, even though I rarely cook!) and they have a book from the American Diabetic Assc. There have got to be a ton of recipes for sweets that are okay, especially now that Splenda is on the market. Healthy substitutes, please take care of your body!

My uncle is diabetic, diagnosed last year. I saw him last month, and it appears he has put on more weight!!! I just want to take him by the shoulders and shake him, he is too important to us to be that cavalier with his health!!! But I can't really say anything to him, he is an adult. But it is painful to see. _**steps off soapbox_**








:

Today I start mapping out my body temps and pulse rate for the New Doc. Sigh. I'm tired of being a lab rat. But it's part of covering all the bases, so I'm doing it.


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## roslyn

Hello Keri, I know I'm being a brat. I think I've been feeling resentful of the diet restrictions, instead of feeling grateful that it is actually something within my control. So many women are dealing with stuff that they can't do anything about. I'm fortunate in that way and I have to remember it. Well today, I've only had my one 1/2 ounce piece of dark chocolate. I've lost six pounds, of course I have 24 to go.

I can't really use artificial sweeteners. They cause insulin spikes too. Apparently your body thinks they're sugar. Plus, they make me sick as well. I've just got to abstain, and I think that's what makes me angry. Of all things on this earth, giving up sugar is almost like death to me. I know that sounds ridiculous, but its really that deep. My mama was a pastry chef and baked goods is a way of life for me. For me nothing says love like lemon pound cake and cup of tea. But if I want to live, and its really that basic, if I want to live I've got to make this change.

Body temps AND pulse rates? That's a new one. What on earth is pulse rates about? And how long do you have to do it?


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## gretasmommy

Roslyn-
What about Stevia? It's a plant leaf extract with a glycemic index of zero. I love it - thought like many non -sugar sweetners it ahs it's own taste. I like it, but some don't. I actually prefer it to sugar. You can bake with it, but need to adjust the amount used as it is far more potent that actual sugar.


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## lolalapcat

Roslyn, knowing that your Mom was a pastry chef helps explain it!

My Mom didn't do much baking when I was a kid, and we were never rewarded or comforted with food, so I don't have any kind of emotional attachment to food. Something tells me I'm never quite going to understand where you are coming from on this issue. It's amazing how differently people can look at the same thing. I'll just take the cup of tea, and pass on the pound cake!

My MIL sent a bag of the Hershey's Select dark chocolate squares, and one of the Ghirardelli Intense dark chocolate. Powerfully yummy, one square is about all I can handle! LOVE dark chocolate.

Good suggestion, Andrea, I hadn't even thought of stevia. That is a complete bummer that artifical sweetners aren't as helpful as I thought.

My New Doc is evaluating my body temp and pulse rate to see if I have Wilson's Syndrome, which is a very controversial condition that a lot of medical entities don't acknowledge as being a real syndrome. I'm in the 'what do I have to lose' camp. My body temp IS always low...98.6 is a fever for me! Maybe that has something to do with the m/c's. Who knows.

So it's temp 4x daily, pulse 3x daily for 5 days preovulation and 5 days post ov. If they put me on meds for this, it's temp and pulse 4x daily for 2 months.


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## Mindi22

Ugh, Keri, that sounds like a lot of work! Can you tell us more about Wilson's syndrome?

Gretasmommy - I second you on the stevia suggestion. It's not my favorite taste-wise, but I have tried somethings that aren't too bad, probably it's more a function of getting the quantities and stuff right for me. Artificial sweetners are pretty much crap for us, so I'd avoid them all together if possible.

roslyn, I can totally understand where you're coming from with food stuff. I have a huge sweet tooth, and I constantly have to remind myself how bad refined sugar is, because I just plain like it so much!!! Good thing is that I really do love dark dark dark almost bitter chocolate, and with all the anti-oxidents in it, I'm calling it health food!









AF came and went (thankfully) and while not long or particularly heavy, it was a very crampy cycle, so I'm very glad to be past it now! My big focus right now is getting back into the swing of things at my office, and trying to get some new clients and energy and such here. It's been a little crazy lately, and my energy has been all over the place, so I'm really needing to refocus and get to work. Speaking of which, I really should be doing that now!









Mindi


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## lolalapcat

Hey, Mindi!

It took several months for my periods to get back to 'normal'. I was amazed at the strange things that would emerge from my body, sometimes it was a bit of a freak show in the bathroom. Sorry if TMI, but it really dragged on, and it was the sort of thing you don't chat about with friends.

Wilson's Syndrome. Well it's characterized by low body temp, and an assessment of other 'symptoms' which generally are associated with low thyroid function--dry skin and hair, weight gain, sleep and general health issue, fertility and m/c issues. Things like allergies, sinus and urinary tract infections, depression and anxiety...

The theory is it is brought on by chronic stress. Body produces cortisol, cortisol interferes with the body's production of T3 which throws off the T4....so the treatment is supplementation of T3, which will kick the body back into normal production of it.

The Wilson's Syndrome website is kind of 'snake oil-y' and the American Thyroid Association does not recognize the existence of said condition. My New Doc acknowledges this, but says they have had some success in treating it. I assume this success relates to fertility, as that is the clinic's focus.

The endocrinologists I have seen have never, ever addressed my chronic low body temp--I averaged 96.4 yesterday. I do have extreme temperature intolerance--miserable when hot, miserable when cold--that has gotten much worse in the last few years.

I'm sure the thyroid is ignored and misunderstood, so I am very curious about this avenue.

I wish this clinic did something, anything that was more widely accepted. Everything they do is sort of maverick. Like redoing my laparascopy, so they can laser the endometriosis that was cauterized last year. They say laser is far superior, and endometriosis is a big factor in m/c. Then why don't more doctors acknowledge it?

Or saying that the 'tail end' bleeding I have (a few days of brownish bleeding following AF) may be caused by a subacute uterine infection, which can figure into m/c. but it's tough to find any info on that.

I'm going on faith now, which is hard for me since I have a medium grade mistrust of doctors (sorry, Andrea, it really is based on past experiences!).

Really long post, my apologies!

Mindi, are you one of the billions with thyroid issues?


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## roslyn

Wow Keri, I'd never heard of Wilson's syndrome either. My niece has Grave's disease, and treating it has been absolute misery. Her blood pressure got insanely high (stroke level) and she lost 20 pounds in two weeks! Amazing what the thyroid can do. Certainly you do seem to have an issue of some kind. I understand what you mean about the 'snake oily' type websites. They make me nervous too. So far nothing they've got you've doing sounds too crazy (though labor intensive and aggravating, I'm sure). I guess as long as it doesn't get too spooky. Just follow your instincts. I understand what you mean about going out on faith. When it gets down to it, what else do we have?

Thanks Mindi. I think I'm just now beginning to understand how much of my life revolves around sugar and baking. I'd already started with Luke. He'd rather bake with me than watch a football game with his daddy. And he really LOVES football. Its a total lifestyle change, and I'm just now coming to understand that. But in the scheme of things, compared to what some folks are dealing with, I really should be ashamed of myself.

I've tried stevia before, but really don't remember what it was like. I'll give it a shot again.


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## lolalapcat

Roslyn, you should not feel ashamed! Not a bit.

It's the big struggles that we are forced to deal with, there is no option. Losing a baby or other loved one, dealing with health issues or relationship issues or work issues. We have to keep on going, there is no choice.

The little struggles are optional, and we have a choice in them. What to eat is your struggle. Mine is trying to get some exercise and quality sleep. It seems like it should be so easy, but my will power just isn't there. The little things are ingrained in our habits---think ruts from wagon wheels.

It is hard to change something you do without thinking, something that is a daily habit, something you like and don't want to give up.

Just because we deal with big things here doesn't discredit the little struggles, not for a second.

No shame.

Off soapbox.

Graves Disease is nasty. My Mom's side of the family is riddled with thyroid problems, and we are lucky that most of them are pretty benign. My condition certainly is (other than possibly playing a role in my m/cs). I've always said, if you're going to have an autoimmune disease, mine is pretty much the one you want.

I'm okay with healthy skepticism within the medical world. But it took years before the cure for ulcers was accepted, even though it worked. I'll try this. My temp is freakishly low, after all!


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## Mindi22

Just wondering what everyone was up to... I've not been on the boards much lately, and the loss forum seems to consistently put me in a bad place emotionally, so I've been avoiding it some.

DH and I are TTC again, and I'm totally having mixed feelings - on the one hand, I want another baby so badly, but on the other hand, to go through another m/c would leave me broken, I think, and I'm not sure about my rebound potential another time, know what I mean? But right now, my desire for another is winning, so we are going at it again. If this one doesn't work out, I don't even know if I'll have the energy or the desire to go through the medical route with all the testing and stress. I can't imagine having Brian growing up as an only child, though, but I know there are other options. I would seriously consider overseas adoption (specifically from Ethiopia, given that I have adopted siblings from there), but that requires a lot of funds, so I don't think it's a viable option, at least not right away.

But that's a little ways off - right now I'm in the two week wait, and we'll see what happens this cycle. If I don't end up pg this time, I'm gonna get a tattoo honoring my losses and also for DS - I'm looking to get a baby giraffe (not totally realistic, but only a little cartooney) seated with a butterfly on his nose and another butterfly flying around his head. The butterflies, of course representing the losses, and the giraffe, DS - long story, but his room has a jungle theme, and giraffe spots on the walls and he's got a bunch of stuffed giraffe toys around as well.

I don't know... I was just thinking of you all and wanted to get caught up.

Keri - any results from all those tests and stuff? Are your temps increasing?

Roslyn - how's the stevia? Any luck with it? Any luck with the whole sweet tooth thing? and all the deadlines, you holding up?

Gretasmommy - I hope your mom's move went ok, and all is going smoothly with her living close by!

Jennifer - how is your son? regardless of what his exact diagnosis is, it sounds like sensory integration work would be really appropriate.

Ok, that's it for me... DS is now telling me every minute that I have to "scare him", so I think I better go focus on him for a bit!

Blessings to all of you lovely ladies!
Mindi


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## Jennifer3141

Hi Mindi! (And everyone else!)

I'm doing pretty well. We are on the way to getting DS a DX. So far, we have SPD pretty clearly and in 2 weeks, I go to UofM for an autism screening with a developmental ped.

I'm late. One day so no big deal but there's that part of me that hopes I'm really pregnant. Looking at the calendar, it's not so likely so we'll see. I may test tomorrow just for peace of mind or now that I've typed this out I'm sure I'll bleed all over the place tomorrow!









Alright, everyone else. Come out please! You're all missed.


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## lolalapcat

Hi!

I wonder about all of you too, but I just assume people move on from this board. I'm still in limbo, so pretty much live here!

My re-do on the laparascopy is a week from Friday. It got moved up from August, and I am actually on board with having it redone. Want it over with NOW!

I decided to wait to start the thyroid treatment until after the surgery, and probably after this month is over. Since it is supposed to be taken EXACTLY 12 hours apart, to the minute, I figured the surgery would interfere with that. And we have a wedding out of town the following weekend, then are throwing my in-laws an anniversary party the next weekend...busy, busy, busy. I have a better chance with taking the meds on time if I am in my comfortable little rut.

Mindi, you would survive another loss, if heaven forbid, that would happen. Never forget those stats, that approximately 70% of women who have had multiple losses go on to complete a pregnancy, without any kind of medical intervention. It's on the 'resources' sticky, one of the books about losses...

And there is shaohannahshope.com (I think that's right), the foundation that provides grants to assist people financially with overseas adoption.

Hope, there is hope!

Jenn, keep us posted with whatever you learn about your son. Now go test!


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## Jennifer3141

Hi Keri!

I think of you a lot. You really, really, really deserve to be a mother someday very soon. You have so much love to give that it pours onto the computer screen.

I peed in a cup but I haven't tested yet. I don't want to be disappointed so there's a cup of urine in my bathroom. That's pretty darn stupid, I know. I need progesterone if I am pregnant.

I just hate that disappopintment of a BFN.


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## Mindi22

Jennifer - Good lord, woman - test so _I_ don't go crazy! Do it for me and Keri, if you can't for yourself!









Keri - thanks for the advice. I looked up Shaohannah's hope online, and there's a lot of great links from that site. Since DH and I aren't church going, we don't qualify for that assistance, but it seems that there are a lot of programs out there that I had no idea of! Thanks for the information, though. If we do end up going that route, it's nice to know that there are resources available!

Nice to see you both again!








-Mindi


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## Jennifer3141

Oh, it was a BFN. Figures, doesn't it?!?

Still no AF so I'll test again Thursday if there isn't one by then but I think we missed it. Ack.

Mindi, how far into the 2WW are you?


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## roslyn

Hello everyone. Whit and I decided to start trying again too this month. Jennifer, I'm ambivalent about it too. I want another one so badly, but I doubt my ability to recover as well. Of course, that leaves the question of why am I doing it? I guess because I'm too afraid not to do it. Does that even make sense?

My cycles have gotten a bit wonky. They were 28dc, then 21, now they seem to have settled at 27. I starting trying at day 10 all the way through. I think I'm going to get some OPKs this time though. Usually I can tell from cervical mucus, but even with Evening Primrose Oil I haven't seen a change. I'll be devastated if I've stopped ovulating.

The medication still makes me sick, but I'm hanging in there pretty well. I'm staying off the sugar pretty well. Even managed to avoid the little guy's birthday cake.

My deadlines are still insane. As if it wasn't bad enough, I've signed on to two more projects, all due around September. I know. But I'm desperate to make this writing thing work and you have to strike when the iron is hot.

I thought I'd be teaching at a community college this summer. It didn't work out and I don't know if I should be worried or relieved!









Keri, I can't wait to hear the result of your laparascopy. A friend just discovered she has Asherman's and crazy as it sounds, we're delighted.

Talk to you all later. I've got to get some sleep.


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## Mindi22

Jen - sorry about the BFN.







That sucks. How many DPO are you?

I'm on day 7 or 9 DPO, depending on which interpretation of my chart you read. I'm alternating which I believe... I am having some weird symptoms, but that could just be a result of looking a bit too closely, know what I mean???

Roslyn, life sounds crazy! And OMG - I totally understand the ambivalence things - it makes perfect sense to me! Are you charting with temps and everything, or just following CM?


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## Jennifer3141

I took another test today. I couldn't resist. I had one of those dreams where you wake up convinced you are pregnant. It was another BFN. Ack.

I'm CD 32, Mindi and about 15 days DPO. If I were pregnant, there's be a positive sign at this point. I'm having a wonky cycle instead.

Roslyn, it's so good to see you back here.

Keri, I'm excited for your lap! Let's get it over with and get your body working.


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## roslyn

I've always just followed CM. I'm so obsessive charting would probably drive me nuts, but I've used OPKs in the past and I think I'll get some for my June attempt. If we don't conceive this cycle I'm going back to the doctor. I'll be 43 in September. This is literally our last shot.

Mindi, the tattoo idea is so awesome. I want to commemorate my angels as well. I'm such a coward though. I think I want one of the bracelets, but every time I go to the website I start sobbing. Clearly its not going to happen anytime soon.


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## lolalapcat

It's so nice to hear from all of you!

Waiting to ttc is an act of self preservation. I'm sort of ready to ttc, but it truly does scare the living hell out of me!

Roslyn, watch out for the wonky cycle. Short cycles are asking for m/c. Talk to your doctor!!!! Um, that would be, when you have a bit of time. Although if you've settled at 27, that does sound pretty normal...

Jenn, sorry about the BFN. Ah, the pregnancy roulette...are we, aren't we? Are we, aren't we? Ugh. Wonky cycle, double ugh.

Thanks for your kind words! DH and I are ready to be parents. The ducks are in a row. We can keep one dog, four cats and 4 houseplants alive, surely that's some sort of proof! And I am our 14 month old godson's very favorite person right now--that's so awesome!







:

Mindi, I didn't realize that faith was a requirement of shaohannahshope, I will do some more investigation. I'm glad there were links to other resources. Since it's in the back of your mind anyway, it's good to know there are options that will make it more feasible. Obviously, I've looked into adoption a little already too!

What in the blazes is Asherman's? I'll do a search. No matter what it is, when you KNOW something is wrong it's a relief to FIND something is wrong! If one more doctor tells me we are young (HAHAHA) and healthy and to keep trying, I will be sharing a cell with Paris Hilton!

The doc is making a video of the surgery. Let me know if anyone wants a copy---I'll send popcorn too!


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## Mindi22

Keri - careful what you offer - I'm the person that got a spinal block for my knee surgery just so I could watch the show!







I love stuff like that! And I totally got a visual with you in the cell with Paris - too funny!

roslyn - it helps that I love tattoos already, and I'd been wanting the giraffe tattoo pretty much since Bri was born... it's just getting bigger! I'm psyched, though, because I'm meeting with a tattoo artist tomorrow that might be interested in some exchange work (chiropractic care for a tattoo) which sounds about perfect given the dearth of spending money around here!

jen - I've had wonky cycles pretty much all my life, so I understand. And I've had those dreams, as well... waking up convinced about something and then realizing it's not true is like a double slap in the face - UGH! I'm sorry!


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## Jennifer3141

Mindi, I'm a regular wonky cycler too but losing weight helped me a ton. Some of it has crept back up and apparently, the wonky long cycles have returned. How nice for me.

Keri, I too have one dog and four cats!







I'll pass on your vidioeks. I'm the opposite of Mindi. I don't want to see any blood! DH came home with someone's blood on his shoes last night and I almost lost it.


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## Mindi22

Jen - what on earth does your hubby do that he came home with someone else's blood on his shoe???


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## Jennifer3141

He's a serial killer.









Actually, he's an internal medicine hospitalist and he had to crack someone's chest open to manually massage his heart when it stopped. They gown up for that obviously but some splattered. As far as I'm concerned, DH needs new shoes.







:

I feel a little crampy this morning. Maybe AF is coming and this long icky cycle is over!

How are you doing Mindi? It's getting close to testing time!


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## lolalapcat

That's what I needed!

I'm pretty good with needles, but I don't need to see it. Ick. The photos I have are verrrry interesting (ovaries are fluffy blobs, just for the record) but the fact that my uterus is retracted in the photos....pardon me while I put my head between my knees. Oy.

Mindi, if I get a copy of the tape I would be pleased to make you a copy! 15 minutes of fame, here I come!

Jenn, here's hoping the wonky cycle has come to an end! Twice in my adult life I have missed periods. Completely, totally. No pregnancy, not even on multiple tests. I chalked it up to stress then, now I don't know what to think!

What's up that your husband doesn't change shoes before saving someone's life? What a jerk!









Roslyn....would you like me to make you a bracelet? It's my new hobby, it would please me to no end to keep you from the website that makes you cry, and commemorate your babies. Just tell me what type of stones you want, what metal and what length. I'll make something pretty for Camille and your other little angel.

That offer goes out to all of you! Just give me a few details. Well then you have to tell me where you live, and I am a neurotic disaster, so proceed with caution!


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## roslyn

Keri, if my cycle is crazy this time I'm definitely going back to the doctor. I think the ten pound weight loss and the meds just threw my hormones off, but who knows? I'm not exactly a spring chicken, but wouldn't it be ironic if my body has gotten so used to the high insulin levels that now it won't ovulate without them? Yeah, nightmare scenario for sure.

We've managed to keep our little guy alive for three years, but we keep locking the cat in the attic, I'm not sure what that says about us. I think it says that our cat is nuts, but then so are we.







Asherman's is when scar tissue from a previous surgery leaves adhesions in your uterus so the egg can't implant. I was very fortunate that I didn't have any from my fibroid surgery, but then my surgeon didn't have to cut into the uterine wall. My friend had the same surgery, but she wasn't so fortunate. They removed the scar tissue during her laparoscopy and now she has a nice fluffy uterus too! I promised her an angora sweater.

Thank you so much for the offer to do the bracelet, I really appreciate that. I'm not even sure about the stones, but I'll get back to you. That's so incredibly sweet.

Mindi I love doing exchange work, that works out so well. I got a car once in exchange for a quilt. I would imagine a tattoo artist would need a chiropractor.

Jennifer, the thought of cracking someone's chest open makes me dizzy. I know they have to do it, but whew!


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## Jennifer3141

Keri, you crack me up every time!

I ran into someone who knew I was pregnant way back this year when I was. I'm pleased to discover that I don't apparently look 6 months along but then she started reciting in PUBLIC this "spirit babies" poem. It didn't quite break out into full song but it was close.

I know different people grieve differently and I'm now pretty positive that she herself has suffered a pregnancy loss (although I'm also now wondering about her losing her mental faculties as well) but I'm just not a big fan of the spirit babies stuff. She talked/sang (?!) about the baby fluttering around my head and following me around all day. And frankly, to me that just sounds irritating like I'm being swarmed by giant dead flying babies. I don't like being swarmed. I don't like gnats. I don't like mosquitoes. I'm not a huge fan of public serandes either.

I miss that last baby the hardest but I've been through this before. I accept that sometimes you lose in life.

I want another but I think Keri and Roslyn and Mindi should have one first or perferrably with me.









The whole spirit babies thing is probably very comforting to people. I guess they are my sensory issue.









Roslyn, cracking someone open isn't my forte either. DH thinks it's fascinating. Eep.


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## lolalapcat

Jenn, now you are cracking me up!

That was very sweet of your friend to ummm, comfort you. She sounds like a tiny bit of a nutcase, but very sweet. Most people are at a loss for words, she obviously found all of them!

Swarms of mosquitoes....I've never thought of the lost babies that way! But I am with you, I also never thought of the lost babies following me everywhere. What kind of a Great Beyond would that be? My life is certainly not peaceful.

And how much of an audience did you have? I keep picturing it!









Roslyn, I'm sure your body likes having less insulin, and just needs some time to adjust! Getting healthier will only help with ovulation.

Simple way to check on ovulation is the temp thing. A couple of m/c's back a doctor scared me into thinking I might not be ovulating, the dumb jackass. Anyhoo, I started charting my temp every morning, and it clearly spikes after o'ing.

And I shouldn't have thrown the stone choice into your court, R. That's why I never ordered a bracelet from labelledame (is that right?), because I couldn't decide if I should pick 'birth' stones from the month the babies were conceived, or when I lost them, or when they would have been due. I still don't know what to do, it all seems kinda morbid. How about you just tell me what colors you gravitate towards, and I will design something, incorporating some nice comforting, healing stones?

Oh, and you lock the cat in the attic because she has a brain the size of a peanut! It is no reflection on your ability to parent, just on her common sense!

Hmm, is it a walk-in attic? Now I am thinking of my early childhood, and playing among empty boxes. I can even smell it.

Had to take one of my cats to the emergency vet lastnight, poor thing. I thought it was an ear infection, but it's some sort of abcess behind her ear. She is on meds from here to eternity, and is not adjusting to the collar/head cone thingy very well. Moral of the story? Not such a great cat parent. I knew something was going on with her, but didn't take her to the vet. Bad Keri.

And it made for another late night. Now on second cup of coffee. Ugh, preop appointment today, and physical exam. Must go scour self.


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## Mindi22

I have to say, I can always count on you ladies for a good laugh - I'm still giggling about the mosquites comparison a few posts back. But I haven't heard of the whole spirit babies poem/song thing, so I'm sure that would make the picture even better. Jen, I'm impressed that you kept from whomping her over the head!

Roslyn - I'm psyched about the tattoo thing. My meeting yesterday with him went great, and I was so impressed at how his "rough sketch" was miles beyond any masterpiece I could create - there's a reason why he gets paid to draw on people and I don't!!! So I have an appointment set up for next week to get my tattoo, which is slightly dependant on the possibility of a positive test in the meantime. Which I'm hoping for, but at the same time, scared for....

Keri - how's the cat? Don't be too hard on yourself - if cats could talk it would be easier, but since they don't we have to guess a lot. Get some rest to catch up from last night, and don't worry about it. She doesn't hold it against you!


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## lolalapcat

Mindi, when will you be testing? Keep us posted!

I really, really want to see the sketch the tattoo artist came up with....it's going to be really neat, isn't it? I keep thinking of a photo I saw, of a mama giraffe nuzzling her baby...

Lola is doing better...yes, life would be sooo much easier if they would only learn English! She is sitting on the back of my chair right now, acting like she feels much more normal.

My preop appointments are out of the way, and I am feeling pretty good about the hospital (it's a new one for us) and the doctor. One week. It will be such a relief to get it over with.

The doc said they now do laparoscopy on every single patient, whether they are dealing with infertility or serial miscarriage. He said 85% have endometriosis. Interesting.


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## Jennifer3141

Keri, I thought about you first thing this morning and thought, "It's only a week away!"

I took another test yesterday with FMU and it was negative too. It's CD 37 today. I spoke to DH about it last night which I totally wasn't going to do. He actually dimmed the computer screen and said, "Honey, your weight is getting back up there. I'm worried about you." I have pre-diabetes, BTW.

So I'll be rejoining WW tomorrow. I only have 20ish pounds to lose so that's not too bad but in my body, those few extra pounds mean the difference between a regular cycle and not.









Seriously, CD 37?!? Ack. My boobs don't hurt today which is a good thing but I just hate not getting a period. I need to know with 1000% certainty that I'm not pregant but that I could get pregnant again. I'm 36 with PCOS so I'm also terrfied it's early menopause.

Enough about me.

Mindi, when are you testing?

Roslyn, where are you in your cycle? Is this maniacal BD time??


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## roslyn

Jen, your friend sounds nuts, but then I imagine my babies being with my mama and FIL. I'm sure that sounds crazy to some folks too.

Keri, I think I am going to start charting. I'm on CD5 at the moment. I bought some OPKs too. My weight seems to have stabilized for the moment, probably because I haven't been working out. Yeesh! There's only so many hours in a day.

Oh wow, medicating a cat. I remember it well. Our cat is getting up in age, and developed thyroid problems. Poor thing, she was down to about five pounds before we got her to the vet. PETA really is going to come after us! At first we had to give her a pill three times a day. It was not a pretty sight. Finally she had surgery. It cost the earth but she was fine after that. Our attic has a drop down ladder. Everytime we go up there she gets nosy and has to follow. Its almost impossible to get her out until she's ready. Then she howls something fierce. Goofy feline! I hope your furry one gets better. They're pretty miserable when they're sick.

As for the bracelets, I really like blues and greens. I think a bracelet with those colors would be pretty. Again, thanks so much for offering.

Mindi, I can't wait to see your tat, it sounds so cool. Maybe one day I'll get one.

Wow, Keri, 85% have endometriosis?!? I never would've thought it. I did think it was strange that they didn't do a lap on my friend before her IVF treatments. But hey, what do I know? I've got my fingers crossed for you. Sounds weird to hope that there's something wrong, but you know what I mean.

No Jennifer, I'm only on CD5, we'll start maniacal BD in about 5 days, will chart this time. I'm pre-diabetic too, and have about 20 pounds to lose. Maybe we can do it together. I've got to find something to motivate me to work out. Its too frustrating. I'll do really well for about a week, then something comes up and I schlump off again. Then I get bummed about myself, and really don't want to work out.


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## Mindi22

Well, I did test today and it was negative, but it's still pretty early (CD 10), so I'm not too surprised. DH thinks I'm pregnant, cuz this morning I burst into tears for no reason, and in spite of a nap this afternoon, I'm still exhausted. My boobs are sore, and I'm having difficulty concentrating on anything (unless you count sleep)... I'm also a little bit pissy this afternoon, which has happened before during early pregnancy, so who knows... I'm going to wait to test again until at least Sunday, if I can hold off until Monday or Tuesday, that would be even better. I'm trying not to freak out about it all. DH keeps telling me that I'm going to have to change that tattoo appointment, which I hope so, but at the same time, I hope that I get to have the tattoo, know what I mean? There's so much meaning in it for me....

As far as the preliminary sketch, I didn't keep it, but as soon as I get the final sketch (or better yet, the final product) I'll post a picture of it for y'all!

I gotta go, I'm exhausted, and need to spend some time with DS and DH.... I'll keep you posted!









-Mindi


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## Jennifer3141

Roslyn, I'm with you on the weight loss thing! Want to do Weight Watchers with me or does something else work better for you? I porked out on pizza today and I was doing soooo "good." Now I'm going to feel like a pig weighing in for the first time tomorrow.

Mindi, I'm excited for you! Those are all very good signs. I REALLY hope you get your positive.

I got my period this afternoon. Thus ends the cycle from heck. Whew.


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## Mindi22

Jen,
But if you pork out before your initial weigh in, then stick to the program, you'll be doing great at your first weekly weigh in, know what I mean??







I'm sorry that AF arrived, I was hoping for you, but at the same time, at least there's some closure, right?

Good luck with WW - it worked really good for me in the past when I was able to stick with it!









Argh, had something else to write, but I can't remember what... Again with the difficulty concentrating.... I gotta go back to sleep, maybe... i only slept for 10 hours last night, clearly a sleep deficiency!


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## Jennifer3141

Mindi, you are sounding more and more preggers!!


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## Mindi22

Jen, is that a polite way of calling me a space cadet???


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## Jennifer3141

Well, yes.








But you do sound pregnant!









I tried to join our local WW today but they are a full 2 YEARS behind the other one I used to go to and I just couldn't bring myself to do it. So I'll be doing it online. I guess I'll still start today though.


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## lolalapcat

THOSE are preggers symptoms? Except for the sore boobs, that's me everyday! I suppress it pretty well though. A for effort!

Mindi, it being Sunday and all, we are now waiting for the results of the latest test. Update!

Roslyn, you should appreciate the fact that I left my favorite cat on the back porch while we went to the races lastnight! Poor guy. And he was all lovey when I let him in, like I was his rescuer. Guilt, the guilt!

Jenn, I'm glad your wonky cycle has drawn to a close. I had some really long cycles months after m/c #3. It took probably 8 months to get back to semi normal. Now I'm just off by an occasional day or so, when I used to be 28 days, nearly to the minute predictable. Oh to be normal again.

Okay, for eating healthier, load up on those pregnancy superfoods! Beans, strawberries, papaya, spinach, tofu, wheat germ, salmon...if I would get completely back on the prepregnancy diet, I wouldn't have this pot belly and what is that hanging off my thighs? This is why there is no full length mirror in our house!

The point is, we should eat that good stuff to prepare for our next pregnancy. Maybe it will become habit...I'll work on it too, as soon as I'm done with my breakfast of coffee!


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## Jennifer3141

Keri, you're right! We should all do that together. Anyone have any good bean recipes here?

I joined WW online today and did well until dinner when I blew it all to heck. But I journaled it all and that's a huge step for me. I'll do better tomorrow.

It's Monday here now, Mindi. I am going to bed tonight and wishing for a bug huge ++++ for you tomorrow!!!


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## Jennifer3141

Um Mindi, we need a freaking update!!! We've got champagne for a +++ and a busload of chocolate for the other.


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## lolalapcat

Jenn, it's a start! The first step towards any kind of change is always the hardest for me, so good job!

I have a pressure cooker recipe for beans in savory broth, and they are very tasty. Even those big old mealy kidney beans are good that way. Not sure how it would translate without the pressure cooker, but would you like that one?

DH will saute spinach in olive oil and garlic, then top pasta and sauce with the spinach and canneloni (plain old white beans) and grate asiago or parmesan on top. It's a pretty slick way of incorporating some beanage.

Sometimes I will cook chopped spinach in tomato-chicken bouillon (found in the Mexican food section--yummers) with garlic, and dump in a can of beans. That would require me to haul my hiney into a grocery store and purchase a can of beans, and who has time for that?







:

But the REAL answer is when I get a fast food lunch, I try to make it Wendy's chili, and if I'm at a salad bar, I get the 3 bean salad, and there's always refritos at our fave Mexican restaurant....

I can ramble on about anything, can't I?

Mindi, update!

Roslyn, would you kindly measure a bracelet or your wrist for me please? And when was your son born? Would you like something included in the bracelet for him, or is this primarily about Camille and Baby Angel?

Why hasn't Andrea checked in? Your Mom's move to the condo, your RE appointment, being around pregnant women constantly, how's that all going?


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## Mindi22

Well, the bad news is that I have to cancel my tattto appointment. Bummer, I was really looking forward to that!

The good news is -







Holy Crap!!!! It's actually true and I'm pregnant, and I'm not sure if I should laugh and celebrate or cry.... a little of both, I'd guess.... I'm psyched and terrified at the same time...










I haven't been following the thread recently, so I'll catch myself up soon as I'm able to concentrate on anything!

Thanks to all of you ladies for your support!

-Mindi


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## Jennifer3141

Mindi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Congrats sweetie!!!!! I'm wishing you the stickiest vibes ever. Take care of yourself and come back and update us a lot, please!!!

I logged on to see if you posted. You made my day.


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## roslyn

I didn't know there was such a thing as a pre-pregnancy diet. I take prenatals and fish oil. Try to eat salmon twice a week, and strawberries are in season so I'm eating them and blueberries like crazy. Need to get more spinach and beans in the diet. The hubster will eat black beans and he'll eat my white chili and its made with great northern beans. I'm not a huge fan of tofu, but I'll give it a shot again. Do you just buy wheat germ?

Keri, my wrist is 6" around (only skinny thing on me! -lol-) I think I would like to have this bracelet just be about my angel babies. It would feel strange to have them there, I think. Those recipes sound good, btw. Especially the spinach one, I'll give it a shot.

OHMIGOD Mindi! So you were foggy-brained for a reason. That's so incredibly hella cool. I'm ecstatic for you.


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## lolalapcat

Mindi, I am engaging in cautious optimism on your behalf....I'm happy for you, but nervous too! Peace and calm, peace and calm.

Roslyn, would you like to borrow my 'Nutrition for a Healthy Pregnancy' and 'Before you Get Pregnant' books? Most of it is common sense, of course, but they are good reminders to be more cognizant of every last little thing in your environment.

Your wrist is almost exactly the size as mine! I finished your bracelet lastnight, but I'm thinking about redoing part of it. It's a little squirrely. But pm me your address so I can send it for your approval (because I will honestly redo it or change it for any any any reason). And let me know if you'd like to borrow the books, too, because they are just sitting there on the shelf.

Beans in Aromatic Broth

1 LB (approx. 2 1/2 c) dried beans, picked over and rinsed.
9 c. water
1/4 tsp. salt
1 Tbsp. oil (needed to control foaming in pressure cooker)
2-4 unpeeled cloves of garlic
2 large bay leaves
1 large carrot, halved
1 celery rib, halved
A few leek greens (optional)

Combine all the above in a 6 quart or larger pressure cooker. Lock lid and cook over high heat at high pressure as specified:
Black beans 22-25 min.
Cannellini 28-32 min.
Chickpeas 32-35 min.l
Great Northern 25-30 min.
Pinto 19-22 min.
Red Kidney 25-30 min.
(there are more times listed for different varieties of beans, ask me if you need them. I picked the most common beans for this list.)

Let pressure reduce naturally. Test beans for doneness. Cook for 1-5 minutes more at high pressure if beans are not done. (I have found that almost all varieties do need a bit more cooking time). Discard vegetables. Beans will store up to 5 days refrigerated, or 4 months frozen.

Variations: omit salt and add a smoked ham hock. Smash the beans as you would potatoes, with herbs, olive oil, salt and pepper. Excess broth can be used for soup.

It's a simple recipe, but really quite good. Like I said, if it can make kidney beans taste okay, it's a good recipe! You could probably duplicate this outside the pressure cooker by following the directions on the bean package, and not adding the veggies until later in the cooking process.

The prepregnancy nutrition book makes a big deal about dried beans. Apparently trace minerals are lost when the beans are processed for canning, or something.


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## Mindi22

Thanks everyone for the optimism (even if cautious - I'm pretty much like that myself) and support! It does mean a lot to me - and you ladies are among that few (thank goodness) that really get it!

Keri - that bean recipie sounds really good... I might try it - but I don't have a pressure cooker - think I can do it with a crock pot? Isn't your surgery coming up soon? I'll be thinking of you!

Jen - what does it mean that the WW group was 2 years behind? I'm so confused (pretty common these days, I know!)..

roslyn - your diet actually sounds pretty good to me as far as omega 3's go. Good for you!









So.... cute story of the day - Brian is now 2.5 years old, and the joy of my life... I've been calling him my little peanut, just cuz it seems to fit. So at first his response to that was "I'm not a peanut, I'm Brian"... then he'd come up to me and say "I'm your little peanut." and this morning, as I was saying goodbye to him, I said "Bye little peanut, I love you!" and his response was "Bye big peanut, love you".... Now admittedly, pregnancy hormones are at work here, but I started to cry ..... awwww.... if he's my little peanut, I'm his big peanut.... Yeah, I know, I'm a total mush....

I've been very hesitant to start posting on the Feb 2008 DDC... I realize it's not a curse to do so, but I really don't want to join another DDC and then have to leave again.... I'm totally feeling the gunshy thing this time around. I called my new midwives office yesterday, and the first thing they did was said that I had to come in to verify the pregnancy. So I went in, and rather nervously peed in a cup, and was relieved to see a positive test there, too... I had blood work done and actually felt a little bit queasy during that. I've never felt like that before with bloodwork, so I know my hormones are all wonky right now. Anyway, my first physical with them will be on the 26th, and I'm looking forward to that, with a bit of caution.

Blessings to all of you lovely ladies - seriously, I'm glad that we're keeping in touch!

Love,
Mindi


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## gretasmommy

Hello ladies! Sorry to be MIA these past few weeks. Thanks for asking/looking out for me!

Mom is here (whew) and her move went smoothly. I do think perhaps my sister and I amy have underestimated the impact of her moving into town a bit - on us, I mean! It's really , really great to have her nearby. The girls (G and my niece, M) just love having her around . . . . but see, the thing is, she's around every day. And here for dinner 6 out of 7 nights. I know things will settle down eventually. And she will make friends here (if it kills me!) soon.

Mindi- YAY!!!!! Fabulous news! I know you are just a ball of crazy emotions right now, and will be for the next few months. Hang in there, and be somewhat comforted by the statistics. You really should get to meet this baby on this side. You are "due" for some good fortune. (aren't we all)

I am off to the repro endo for a 3-D sonohystogram in about half an hour - how exciting! Keri, I sure hope I get a copy! I am siding with Roslyn in that I would absolutely love to "see" everything. The million vials of blood thus far haven't been terribly revealing. All "normal" so far. Why doesn't it feel "normal" to have lost 2 babies? One of my biggest fears is that we find nothing. No answers, no aparent reason other than to make me stronger. I am feeling mighty strong . . . . . can we catch a break, please?

Anyway, we'll see what this next step shows. If all is well, next cycle has a bunch of timed blood draws and then we get more info . .. .

I am hopeful. Cautiously optimistic (the last time I felt cautiously optimistic was back in February). Hopeful for the future . . ...

Thanks for listening.


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## lolalapcat

Aww, Mindi, your story about the adorable B made me tear up a bit. That is so sweet! It's amazing the way you can almost watch them grasp abstract ideas.

I'm not sure about the crock pot and dried beans, it might take 3 days! Try checking a recipe website to see if there are any comparable recipes, then merge the two.

I love my pressure cookers, but haven't used them much lately. They speed things up considerably, otherwise I might not even try to cook dried beans!

How are you feeling?

Hi, Andrea! No apologies necessary, you have a busy life outside of here!

A 3D sonohystogram? Wowza, what's the scoop on that procedure? And how did it go?

Yeah, I'm with you on being 'normal'. I so am NOT! My hormone tests were pretty darn normal. Uterus--normal. Tubes, ovaries--normal. Thyroid tests are a little off, but I am not hypo or hyper thyroid.

So I am right there with you. If everything is normal, what the heck do we do?

I'd so be helping your Mom make friends if I were you! If my Mom was around that much I would crack. It's got to be a big adjustment for all of you.

Okay. Surgery in the am. Hooray, it's almost over! This is the last thing, you know. Other than the intensive thyroid treatment, but I don't really strongly regard that as being for my reproductive health. If it could just cure my cold/heat intolerance, life would be oh, so much better!

Anyway, the last invasive, painful, scary, nasty procedure will be done tomorrow. Finally!

Take care!


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## Jennifer3141

Keri, you've been in my thoughts a lot lately. Do you have to spend the night at the hospital or anything?

I drove the kids to Ann arbor, MI yesterday so DS could meet with a developmental pediatrician. We'll get those results on Monday.

Mindi, the local WW here has no new materials that would basically make it worthwhile for me to join. So I'm doing it online instead and buying it there.


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## gretasmommy

More on the sonohystogram later. Let me just say it was a great deal of fun, and I want to do it every day.

Uh, no.

Anyway, Keri, I will be thinking healing thoughts for you tomorrow, holding you in the light. Take care. This is the last step, right?


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## Mindi22

Keri,
I've been thinking of you lots today, I hope your surgery went well. Update us when you're able to!

Andrea,
Good to hear from you. Glad the your mom's move went smoothly, and that you survived what sounds like a thrilling procedure!

Jen,
That's really weird about WW - especially since they just changed their materials again a few months ago. Crazy that they don't have the new stuff - sounds a bit fishy to me!

Things here are going all right... sore boobs and very tired, but other than that, I'm doing okay. I can't really complain, so that's good. I gotta run now, cuz little peanut is having a time of getting to bed. It's driving DH crazy, and it looks like I might need to intervene!

G'night, y'all!


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## lolalapcat

Thanks for thinking of me, that is so nice of all of you!

Surgery is over with. Doc did a lot of laser work on endometriosis, and I can really tell something went on in there!

Yes, this is the last thing. Except for the upcoming thyroid treatment, but that' not even the slightest bit invasive!

Jenn, thanks. It was outpatient, so I spent a very restless night at home.

Andrea, I do want to hear more about the sonohystogram. Here and I thought I'd had the full battery of those types of tests...

Mindi, hang in there!

I'm off to try to eat something, while laying on the couch.


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## Jennifer3141

Ok Keri, so what's the next step for you now?

I weighed in yesterday and lost 3 1/2 pounds. Only 25 more to go. Ack. I took today off from dieting.


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## gretasmommy

Wow, Jen! Any weight loss is reason to celebrate in my world! Good for you!

Keri- I am so glad you are through the biggest of the medical hurdles. Thyroid treatment is so simple in comparison. One step at a time, though.

Mindi- Glad to hear you are doing well!

Ummmmmm . . .guess what we had for dinner last night? Can't guess? Spinach, roasted garlic, and ricotta pizza with an incredibly garlic-y caesar salad from our favorite little pizza place, Scarlet Begonia's (we refer to them as "Garlic Begonia's"). I was rereading an earlier post about spinach being important in one's diet, and i realized that I could use more spinach in my diet! Soooooo, I did what I could, given the pizza cravings we were all having . . . .

We started the day out a bit better today. I made DH whole wheat/buttermilk blueberry muffins. Still carb-y, but at least lots of fiber and blueberries to balance the carbs. Have a happy day, all!


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## lolalapcat

Jenn, the next step for me is to take a bath and practice walking upright! I'm debating about going to work tomorrow. I'm growing rather fond of holding still.

I think the next appt. is Thursday, and hopefully the Doc will outline a plan. The thyroid treatment will go 2 months, so I am guessing that he will advise us against ttc until that is complete.

Hooray on the missing 3.5 pounds! May it stay away! Keep up the good work! And if you eat via old habits one day a week, but eat healthier the other 6, it only makes sense that you would still drop some weight doesn't it?

Andrea, that pizza sounds fabulous! I want to go there just because of the name of the place. There is a vintage clothing store in Lincoln called Ruby Begonia's....it must be the word 'begonia' that I like.

That's exactly what DH and I have done in the last couple of years, gradually replaced more refined foods with whole grains, added toasted nuts to salads and pilaf, replaced white rice with brown....it all adds up, I suppose.

Umm, now I am thinking of The Stinking Rose, the restaurant in San Fran that seasons it's garlic with food. Mmm.

Must mobilize. Poor Dad, last year I had m/c #3, 2 days before Father's Day. This year I am hobbled from the most recent surgery. I sure know how to screw up a holiday! Steak is on the menu. I'm not sure I am up to steak yet.


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## roslyn

I'm so frustrated right not. I ovulated Friday. Got my girlfriend to take Luke for the evening so we could try. Well, dh had to work late. All day yesterday we had company, so we couldn't try until today. Aaarrgghh! So much for BDing all weekend.

Glad your surgery went well Keri. Did you know you had endo?

Jen, I'm so proud of you with the weightloss. I'm supposed to be doing the Insulin Resistant Diet. I still want to work with you, just been so distracted lately.

Oh wow, a garlicky restaurant. Yum-o. I do love the stuff. I put it in everything.


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## Jennifer3141

Oh Roslyn, if it's any consolation I conceived DD about 4 days after O. So there you go. Go forth and BD anyway! I'm here for your weight loss support anytime, hon.

I walked for 5 1/2 hours today. I had to get the kids out of the house so DH could sleep because he's on nights this week. I eat 26 points a day on WW. I earned 17 EXTRA points for all that walking.

The kids were so good today that it wa sone of those days where I wanted 4 more.

DS gets his official diagnosis from his developmental pediatrician tomorrow sometime by phone. (He's 5 hours away!)

Keri, I cannot wait to hear what your doctor's plan is. I plan on TTCing around September. That puts us on the same track if your thyroid stuff goes well.

I want to go to Garlic Begonia's now! Take me! Take me!


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## gretasmommy

C'mon over and we'll all head over to Garlic B's! Maine is lovely in the summer - usually highs in the 70's and overnights are in the 50's . . . the ocean sure is cold here, though (I guess I am a Jersey girl at heart!), but the kids don't seem to mind.

Jen- I hope you get good news (whatever that might be) from the pediatrician tomorrow.

For now, off to knit a bit. My MIL had an MI Thursday night, and interestingly one of the presenting symptoms was a feeling that her bra was too tight. She has had breast cancer, twice, resulting ina mastectomy. She has been struggling with finding a comfortable bra/prosthesis for a while, and just today asked if I would knit her a prosthesis! It's a big step for her to ask - I knit one for my mom for Christmas, and she saw it then. There's a pattern on "Knitty" for a "tit bit" - it's a free poattern, and I have made 2 so far. Off to work on hers . . . something fun, I think, to cheer her up a bit. I am thinking light blue with a purple "nipple"!


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## Jennifer3141

Andrea, the knitted purple nipple cracked me up!!! that is a marvelous thing you are doing right there. Wow.


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## lolalapcat

Roslyn, I'm sorry the world worked against you ttc! That is frustrating, when you have this little clock ticking in the back of your head, but you can't quite tell people why you have to go...

Just for the record, DH and I have found that 2 days before O, day of, and 2 days after is nearly foolproof. Fat lot of good it's done us, but nevertheless, it's effective! Now go ahead and try to schedule that in!

Andrea, now I want to come to Maine for a vacation! Alas, it's western Kansas and lovely Detroit this year. sigh.

I hope you MIL is okay. It is very sweet of you to help her in such a personal way, and to try to inject a bit of levity into the prosthetic!

Jenn, I am anxiously awaiting the report....


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## roslyn

That's a fabulous idea greta. My mama had a mastectomy too. She never could find a comfy bra afterwards either. I wish we'd thought to knit one. Frankly she never needed it, given she was flat as a pancake, but she never felt right going braless either. That's a wonderful thing.

Well, we're going to try to DTD tonight. Its possible I didn't O until Saturday. Though the OPK showed Friday, I didn't have any cramping or other symptoms until Saturday. Sometimes I have crampy Os. Interestingly enough, I usually only feel it when its my right ovary. This time it was my left and it really let itself be known. I've always thought my left ovary was kind of lazy, and let the right do all the work. But this one was a doozy. If I didn't O until Saturday, I've still got some time.

Oh wow, Maine sounds fabulous. We're in a doozy of a drought right now. We're about 30 inches shy of our usual rainfall total. I feel terribly guilty about watering every day, but we don't have a choice. We bought drought tolerant plants and grass, and kept our lawn to a minimum, but if we don't water every day it starts dying. Its actually kind of scary. Normally we don't have to water every day until August. To already be doing it in June, I dunno. It literally hasn't rained here in almost two months. That's unheard of.


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## Jennifer3141

No report from the doctor yest. I'm DYING here. He has called me at home much after hours before so all hope s not lost.

Roslyn, we're having a drought here too. My lawn is totally brown in front. I'm watering the backyard for the kids but there's no way I can do the front yard too. It looks so sad and I'm worried that some idiot tourist is going to throw a cigarette butt out and burn my house down.


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## lolalapcat

Jenn, what's up with the doctor's report? I certainly hope you have heard something by now!

What exactly were you doing that resulted in 5 1/2 hours of walking, if you don't mind my asking?

Roslyn, I forgot to answer your previous question. Yes, I knew I had endometriosis before this surgery. Last year when the RE did a laparscopy to check on possible tube problems, she found 2 little spots of endo and cauterized them. This doc says cautery of endo has a nearly 100% recurrence rate, so he uses laser, which he says has only a 30% recurrence rate. Blahblahblah. I haven't researched too much on these stats, but there is some info out there that concurs with him.

Anyway. He found many little spots of endo, and some that looked pretty old. Great. And I have found info that indicates that small amounts of endo are more strongly associated with m/c than larger amounts. I have a small amount of hope.

I wish I could send you both some rain! This is the first year in 7 that we haven't been in drought, so I truly do feel your pain. Last fall we started getting more rain, and the grass was still green in November---I had forgotten it could survive summer!

Jenn, most of the 'no' rsvps we are getting for the in law's anniversary party is because they are going to the lake---you are about to be invaded big time, aren't you?


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## Mindi22

Hi everyone!

Sorry to be so quiet for a few days - I'm battling the cold of the century, and I feel like crap, but not related at all to the pregnancy - except in that it makes me want to take anything even less than normal, know what I mean? I did take some benedryl last night so I could breathe while I slept, but I really don't want to take stuff... I'm still a bit paranoid, I guess...

Keri - glad to hear that your surgery went well and that you are recuperating. I hadn't heard that about the endo thing, but that's good news, right? If he's able to do something that maybe took care of it, that can only help!

Jen - still no word? I'd be calling them every 20 minutes!









Andrea - the blue and purple knitted breast sounds awesome! That almost makes me want to take up knitting so I can make some of those!

roslyn - hopefully you were able to get some BD'ing in last night. I've had months like that - it pretty much sucks....


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## Jennifer3141

Hi everyone!

Well, they think DS is on the spectrum at this point, although they were optimistic about where on the spectrum he is. Now some of the OT should be covered by insurance and we will be able to join the floortime program we want.

Any news Keri?


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## roslyn

Nope, no more BDing for us. I've managed to catch a cold, Luke had it first, and now I'm so miserable just the thought of DTD makes me dizzy.

I guess I'm in the 2ww, but it'll be a blessed miracle. Yeesh!


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## lolalapcat

I wish I was there to cook chicken soup--okay, open a can of chicken soup--and watch your boys for you, Mindi and Roslyn. Get well soon. Lots of garlic, right Andrea?

Jenn, any news that is optimistic is pretty good, isn't it? And insurance coverage is good, too. Has your DS been in OT already?

No news here---follow up appt is tomorrow morning.

And yes, Mindi, I am pleased that I am in this pain for a reason! If he hadn't found any endo...if everything had been normal...my head would have blown up. I might have thrown in the towel.

Get well, Mindi and Roslyn!


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## Jennifer3141

Keri, I'm so excited for you for tomorrow!

Roslyn, has the cold jumpstarted a diet change for you?









I'm still waiting for more from the dev. ped. about whether or not he will write a letter for DS for insurance coverage for the OT. Without it, we'll self pay but oy!

Mindi, I'm so glad you're doing well. When's your next appointment?

How's the purple nip, Andrea?


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## Jennifer3141

Keri?!? Update please!!


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## lolalapcat

Sorry, I didn't mean to keep you in limbo! I was on the run from 7 in the morning to almost 10 last night.

The appointment was really, really good.

You know how we've talked here about _wantingour doctors to find something wrong, since we already know something is wrong? The doctor showed me the video of the surgery, showed me photos, showed me lab results. Then he pointed out what he knows can cause m/c, and things that may contribute. And he detailed treatment for each thing.

He is excited about our case. He used that word! "Excited". That is so much better than 'keep plugging away' from the last doctor.

So here are the details:
Doc said endometriosis is associated with a 50% m/c rate, and is strongly associated with infertility. Thus, his 100% lap surgery policy on his patients. He says we have probably an 18 month window to work with before more endometriosis will typically start to reform, but that the spots he lasered will not return.

He said that my tail end bleeding (a few days of brownish bleeding at the end of my period) and the presence of these threadlike 'micro-polyps' in my uterus are convincing evidence of a chronic uterine infection, which he will treat once all the lab results are back. He says only one other doctor in the US is a strong believer in this concept of uterine infections, but they have treated them with antibiotics and it makes a difference. The trick is in keeping them away. He says the uterine infections, which he believes are fairly common, cause m/c's. Haven't yet vetted facts, and it doesn't sound like I will find much.

My estrogen flat lines after ovulation, so I have a prescription to correct that. He said that likely wasn't the cause of m/c, but could contribute.

The thyroid tests indicate the reverse T3 syndrome, so I have the prescriptions to work on that. I am highly intrigued by this. Once again, this could contribute to m/c, but isn't likely the cause.

I truly am hopeful at this point. Cautiously so, because no doctor can erase our m/c history. But someone says they can DO something....

I am still hoping he's not a quack. But our charting trainer thinks the guy can walk on water, he has helped so many of her charting trainees. And I have the propaganda book of his success stories. I'm starting to think he's not a quack, just a maverick.

And the nurses at the hospital were surprised I was local--they said a majority of this doctor's patients are from out of state. Now THAT would take a lot of faith!

Anyhow, thanks for listening to me ramble! I figured the details would be of interest to those of you still in the process of trying to figure out what may be wrong with your own bodies. I'll be your guinea pig, and see if this guy's theories hold water...

Roslyn and Mindi, are you better yet? I hope your colds are history!

Jen, I'm completely bummed Michigan is so big. I'll be there in a week, you sure you don't have any business to take care of in the Detroit area?_


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## Mindi22

Oh Keri! I'm so excited for you... that's great that he's excited about your case, and that he actually found some things to work on. Very promising! He doesn't sound at all like a quack, I agree, more like a maverick. It's never a bad thing to have things looked at from a different angle regardless, and since he has helped so many folks, I think it's a great sign!

Roslyn, I hope you're feeling better!

Jen, any news on insurance? Any possibilty of seeing a chiropractor with DS? Chiropractic care can help a lot with re-educating spine and brain pathways. For more information on this, check out on this link. There is also a "find a doctor" link on that page, that will help you locate (hopefully) a chiropractor in your area that is experienced in working with these issues. I hope this helps some!

I'm still dying to see pics of the knitted, um.... tit, Andrea!









I have my first MW appointment on Tuesday next week. I'm looking forward to it. I POAS (where A= Another) a few days ago, and yes, I'm still pregnant, and the line was indeed darker than on the first test. So I think that's probably a good sign. I hope so, anyway!


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## roslyn

Hello everyone, I can finally breathe. This cold is awful!

Jennifer, I've decided to get serious about this diet/exercise business. I only need to lose 20 more pounds. I need to stop being such a baby.

Wow Keri, sounds like your doctor is very thorough, and may be on to something. He doesn't sound like a quack to me either. Usually quacks don't give give thorough, logical explanations. He explained why he believes what he does. Makes sense to me. Good luck!

I'm still in the 2ww (Yeah Right!) but I'm watching everything I eat or drink, anyway. Everyone keep fingers crossed for me, please!

Trying to at least be more active with the little guy. He drives me nuts otherwise. It finally rained Tuesday, but its incredibly hot today--97 degrees. We got our walk in early, might let him play in the sprinkler later in the PM.


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## gretasmommy

Wow, Keri. Great news (I think)! At tleast there is hope, and you have a plan. Nice. Uterine infection? Goodness, I sure hope it responds quickly and you are on the road to recovery soon . . . may it be filled with blissful fatigue and nausea! "Cautiously optimistic" is a good phrase, don't you think?

Well, the boobie wound up being blue and pink ( I was worried the purple might look . . . .um . . .. . dead. I will try and all-purple one enxt. I'll ask my sis to take a pic and I will then figure out how to post it!

Mindi- Glad to hear things are going well. Good luck with the MW appt.

Sooooooooo, I had an interesting, life-changing phone call from my RE's office yesterday. Apparently, despite being tested for this and getting "normal" results nearly 7 years ago, I am homozygous for a mutation in the MTHFR gene (looks an awful lot like "motherf***er", doesn't it??!!!). There is a history of this in my family, and my sister is even a carrier of the first known mutation. Apparently, in the past few years, another variant has been found, also known to result in thrombophilia, spina bifida/neural tube defects . . . .and I am homozygous for this mutation. Crazy! Absolutely crazy!

Deep breath. So, my body killed my babies. Tiny little clots formed in the developing placenta, until it no longer had a blood supply and the baby died.

Twice.

And if I hadn't listened to my instincts and instead listened to my health care providers, it would most likely have happened again.

So, for now and for the rest of my life I get to take mega doses of folic acid, vit B6 and B12, and Zinc, baby aspirin . . . and I get a hematologist. If we get pregnant again, heparin injections twice a day and an audience weekly with the high risk OB group.

It's all a little scary for now, but I guess I was hopeful we'd find something. I was really hoping to find a littler something. Perhaps something that a tiny little magic pill would fix. Not that injections are a big deal, but really, heparin? Goodness, that's a big deal!

Anyway . . .off to process a bit.

Thanks for listening, and sorry for not doing too many personals. My mind is a bit foggy.


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## Jennifer3141

Andrea, I'm sorry (glad at least they found something?!) about your recent discovery. That is a lot to process!

Roslyn, I saw 160 on the scale this morning and realized that next week, I'd see the 150s. I'm motivated now! It was really getting out of control. And I've somehow caught your cold!

Keri, I'm so very happy you are ok.

Mindi, how are you doing? When's your next/first (?) pregnancy checkup? If I missed it, I'm sorry. My brain is foggy from not being able to lie down and/or sleep.


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## lolalapcat

Jen, why are you not able to lie down or sleep? What is going on? The cold? I'm sending a lullaby your way. Get well soon!

Andrea....I know it's scary, but I am completely excited for you! They found the cause of your m/c's, and they have a way to help you maintain a pregnancy. It's the 'get out of jail free' card. Not to mention, there are long term implications for your own health that can be addressed pretty simply, so it's great that you know now.

What does MTHFR stand for? I have seen it in other posts, and really have no idea. Is there a thread dedicated to it on this board?

So is Greta a miracle baby?

And we will hold your hand through the heparin. Just like all of you held my hand through this surgery and nonsense!

Mindi, my fingers are still crossed for you! Darker line is good news.

Roslyn, are you thinking you might be pg? Update!


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## gretasmommy

Yeh, Greta really is a miracle - she should have a neural tube defect, and not made it due to an enormous clot! Amazing. And I didn't suffer from pre-eclampsia like I should have . . . . for a million reasons, she is a miracle.

MTHFR stand for "methyltetrahydrofolate reductase" . . . . simple, eh. Essentially, I don't metabolize homocysteine and get folate out of that pathway.

I need to digest this for a bit, but Keri, you are right. Perhaps this will help . . . . I can only hope, right?

Thanks all. More later.


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## lolalapcat

So if Greta is a miracle, then it means the MTHFR perhaps isn't as severe in you as it could be? What are the implications of having this disorder, but having had a wildly successful pregnancy?

I'm very hopeful on your behalf. Soak up the details....trust me, even the scariest things get more manageable when you get a little distance and perspective on them.


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## roslyn

First, Keri, I received my fabulous bracelet and the books. I've been trying to stay offline so I can write! I'm way behind on my deadlines and the net is a big time sink. But I had to tell you its the most beautiful thing anyone has ever made for me (besides my mama). And I cried when I read the meanings behind the stones. I needed that so much. I don't know how I can thank you. My MIL asked about it last night and I told her you made it for me. I didn't tell her what it represents--y'all know how freaky people can get over that type of thing. I think I'll keep it private between me and my husband.

I still don't know if I'm pregnant or not. I'm due this Saturday and I'm usually like a clock in that respect. I don't know why I feel that I am. Two weird things have happened. I had a really funny sensation several days after the hubster and I BDd. I've only felt that way once before--when I was pregnant with Luke. And last night I dreamed of death. (I know, freaky dream interpreter chick, sorry, feel free to ignore this.) Usually a death dream signals a great change or a rebirth. Doesn't necessarily mean pregnancy, but you can't rule it out.

Wow Andrea, that's the most amazing thing I've never heard of. And it may well be one of the few things they DIDN'T check me for. I'll have to check the TWO PAGES of test results I got back from my RE. I'm so glad you know, and that its treatable.

Jennifer, one great benefit of the cold from hell. Apparently if I can't smell it, I can't eat it! I've lost about three pounds. I think that's at least partially because I got one of those pill dispenser thingies and I'm taking my meds properly now. Somedays I'd forget whether I'd taken it and would take too much or too little. I've stayed away from the sweets really well. Unfortunately my husband's family is in town and they've put in a special request for peach cobbler. I think I can resist by making myself and my sister-in-law the low-fat version from a cookbook I found. Or we may just eat some fresh peaches. We finally got some decent ones at the Farmer's Market. The first batch were almost killed in a late-April frost.

Oh well, I'm making like a mole and going underground again. I'm trying to do at least a thousand words a day on my novel. The deadline is fast approaching. Thank y'all ever so much for your support. You're the only people I can talk to about these things. Everybody else is amazed I haven't 'gotten over it' by now. They don't know any better, and I pray to Goddess they never do.


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## lolalapcat

Roslyn, I was wondering if you were blazing away on the keyboard, and you have been!

You have already thanked me. I am relieved that you like the bracelet. Jewelry is such a personal thing anyway, even without trying to incorporate something to represent your babies.

And I made it subtle, so no one would pick up on the significance unless you wanted to tell them. Although those of us who have looked for P/BL jewelry might possibly figure it out, so watch out for us!








Gotten over it, who thinks you just 'get over' these kinds of losses?

Keep writing!

Well, I heard from the clinic yesterday. My uterine infection? It's chlamydia.

It's a terribly embarrassing thing to confess, but if information can help anyone else....

I've never been a saint, but I was pretty careful, and always got tested annually just in case. For years, I was tested, always negative. And on my 6th year of committed marriage I come up with an STD?

But if this is what causes that tail end bleeding, the few days of brown drizzle after my period, then I have had this for YEARS. Like 15.

They are still testing for other things--fungus, specifically. ewwww. But in the meanwhile DH and I will be undergoing some more doxycycline. My fave. Back on the doxy diet, for 2 weeks, then 10 days at the beginning of each cycle for 6, yes 6, months. Probiotics here I come!

Anyway. I've been a giant convulsion of regret for bad decisions I have made in the past, which is not my normal m.o. Trying to move on. And especially trying not to think about boyfriends of the past.

Hey, at least now they aren't talking about the iv antibiotics, which would have been logistically difficult and expensive. I have enough arm scars.

I'm off for Detroit tomorrow morning, so after reading this novel you get a break until next week! Take care, friends!


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## roslyn

Hello Keri, sorry I'm so late responding to this, I've been unplugged for two days trying to get some word count. I am absolutely flabbergasted by your news. On the one hand, I'm thrilled that you're finally getting diagnosed, on the other, I'm furious that doctors have missed this all this time! Aaarrgghh!!!

Don't you dare for one moment blame yourself or feel badly, or I WILL get furious. This type of thing doesn't discriminate, you could've been a vestal virgin on your wedding night and still contracted it. We just never know, and with you getting tested regularly I just don't understand.

I hope you're relaxing and enjoying yourself. Today is the last day of the 2ww, and I don't feel any PMS or anything, so we'll see. Talk to you later.


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## gretasmommy

Oh, Keri!!!! How could this possibly have been missed? Ack! At last, though, something to be done. I'd say congratulations, but that sounds kind of funny given the situation.

Ohhhhhh, I really don't envy you the prolonged doxycycline course! I might go on it as well Monday, if AF shows. Sorry, TMI ahead, tune out if you so choose. After the 3D sonohystogram 2+ weeks ago, I have been spotiing for the majority of this cycle, beginning on O day. Reddish at times, often that similar brownish stringy stuff . . . every day since O. Some cramping, nothing horrible. When I spoke witht he nurse at the RE's office about something else, I mentioned this and she seemed a bit concerned. I just chalked it up to having had an interventional procedure earlier in this cycle and thought little of it - they never said to call if there was spotting. It certainly wasn't painful, and I took doxy 3 days before the procedure and 2 days afterwards. Good God, wasn't that enough???? Anyway, once I have a negative serum HCG Monday, I go on 14 days of doxy again. She suspects a bit of endometritits form the procedure. Ugh. I really had a hard time with the nausea on doxy , and now I am taking the crazy vitamins which also make me headachey and nauseated . . . . blech.

I expect AF anytime this weekend. Who knows. There is a very, very remote chance the test MOnday will be positive, but it is quite remote, and I really now hope it is negative, as this clearly isn't normal and I cannot take spotting every day. I think that would make me lose my mind, quite honestly.

Roslyn- Hope today brings no AF for you. When will you test?

I am once again motivated to lose more weight, thanks to you ladies who are doing such a great job here! Thanks, Jennifer and Roslyn for helping kick my behind back into the right gear! I went to the gym this mornign, and now I am taking my crampy spotting self up to take a cleansing shower! And I will go to the gym again tomorrow . .. and I will not eat ice cream more than once a week . .... (better stop here before I get ahead of myself!!!) . . .


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## lolalapcat

Wow, the board has been really busy!

Thanks, everyone. I've been skeeved out by the diagnosis, but have stopped dwelling on it. I'm still blown away that tested annually never revealed this infection.

Oh, Andrea, that absolutely sucks. I've always taken the antibiotics after invasive procedures too, and never gave a second thought to the possibility of infection. Endometritis, I heard that term for the first time a couple of weeks ago. Yuck.

And yeah, I always drizzle blood (often brown) after the hsgs and surgeries. They told me to expect it, even when the surgery didn't have anything to do with the inside of my uterus. So I wouldn't have called either.

Doxycycline eats holes in my stomach and upsets my digestive tract--I'm still having trouble, even a couple weeks and dozens of containers of yogurt later. After discussing this with the nurse, she spoke with the doctor. He prescribed 2 weeks of a probiotic called 'FloraSource', which I find is now called 'iFlora', before starting the doxy.

That's why I call it the doxy diet, it makes me want to barf, and moves things through my body so fast I surely can't be absorbing any calories or nutrients.

Sorry, tmi there too.

Roslyn, any news? Jen, Mindi, updates?


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## roslyn

Of course I'm not pg. It would've been a miracle had I been. Fortunately the hubster and I are going away for a couple of days. We're leaving Luke with the SIL and going whitewater rafting. With any luck we won't be too exhausted to DTD. I'm supposed to O next Friday, so the timing should be perfect.

I'm glad you're feeling better Keri. I've never been on doxy. Erythromycin and Keflex have that effect on me. Just downright nasty stuff. Never thought to use probiotics. Good idea.


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## gretasmommy

Keri- I just hate the doxycycline . . ..hopefully the iFlora will help this time for you. I can;t believe annual testing didn't find this! Any explanations for this from your docs?

Hope this cycle is better, Roslyn.

Sooooooo, you are the first (and only!) I am sharing this with - I am pregnant! Unbelievably, pregnant. And absolutely scared out of my mind! We weren't "trying" this cycle, and when AF didn't arrive Saturday and my spotting tapered off . .. I did what any reasonable woman would do - POAS. Negative. Sunday there was still no sign of AF, and the faintest little line was there on the test. So, I called into the RE's office, went in for labs, repeated them today and things look okay. So far. HCG 49 monday (12 DPO) and 129 today (14 DPO). Progesterone Monday 21.4.

I am in shock, and really, really scared. What if I do have a uterine infection? No doxy for me. I did start the Fragmin (low molecular weight heparin injections that sting quite a bit and leave the most obvious and unsightly bruises) Tuesday (had to be ordered) . . what if that brief delay was too much? I have been taking the super folate supplement for 2 weeks, what if that hasn't been long enough and the baby is affected by this?

What if . . ..what if . . .

So, here I share this, with those who will understand my fears. Thanks for listening. I have an appt in 2 weeks for an U/S and to meet the perinatologists (high risk OB's), and tomorrow with the hematologist.


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## Mindi22

I'm sorry that I've been so quiet lately. It's been rough around here for me, no news on the pregnancy, I have an US next week, which I'm both dreading and anticipating. I'm just so hormonal, and I think because I'm not letting myself get excited, all I can do is cry and be depressed, which pretty much sucks. That, combined with really low energy = a person not so fun to be around these days.

My first MW appointment went really well. She was a sweetheart, and we just talked. Because it was early (only 6 weeks), she asked me if I wanted an exam, and I declined. We talked about early testing, and I settled on an US at 8 weeks, so I could have a definitive answer. She asked me if I wanted a PAP smear, and I declined (which I was planning on fighting anyway, cuz I kind of assumed it to be standard practice. But I've never had an abnormal smear, and I really don't want to do anything that will irritate my uterus or my cervix right now, kwim??) She totally agreed that it wasn't necessary, which was wonderful to hear. Basically, I got to talk with a kind, caring woman who understood a bit of what I'm going through. YEAH! I really like her! I'll meet the others in the practice as I go through care, and hopefully I'll like them all just as much. I'm really hoping for a home birth, but I have a feeling that isn't going to be a go with DH. We'll see, I guess, I just need to make sure this is a viable pregnancy before I can really start planning!

Keri - I'm sorry to hear about the infection - I can't believe it wasn't caught before now since you've been tested regularly. That's a bit scary, eh? But at least you know, and there's something that can be done, which is a good thing. Although the doxy diet sounds, um.... less than pleasant???

ANDREA!!!! *hugs* Huge congratulations, and if it helps, I totally understand what you're feeling! Glad to hear that your HCG is rising properly, that's definitely good news. What is your EDD? I'm guessing March? Thanks for sharing with us, and keep us posted. I'm excited for you, though!









Roslyn - A weekend away with DH sounds heavenly! And DTD after white water rafting sounds especially lucky to me for some reason!









Blessings to all of you. You all mean more to me than I can ever put into words. Thank you so much for being here and understanding. I need this thread more than I can say!


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## lolalapcat

Andrea, I'm so excited and nervous for you! You tricky little thing, I didn't realize pg was a possibility this cycle!

Maybe it's not a uterine infection you have, then. Maybe it was implantation bleeding and hormones? Here I go being too gross again....was there any indication the discharge was infectious? Smell? Appearance? It might be nothing out of the ordinary, now that we know you are PREGNANT!

Don't worry about it, talk to the docs!

Already on the necessary meds, lightning fast. Awesome! (sorry about the bruises, ouch). And doesn't folate build up in your system? If you've been taking folate supplements up til 2 wks ago and eating decently, it's all okay.

Mindi, I'm sorry you are having a rough time. It's scary to have so many doubts, especially those based on experience. And hormones---ugh.

But I'm so pleased you have a midwife who is in tune with you! That is a blessing. Wish I was there to hold your hand for the first u/s. How about I'll hold you in my thoughts?

Roslyn, white water rafting, that's so exciting! Okay, I actually find it to be pretty scary, since I'm not a water person. But it SOUNDS good!

Probiotics---the miracle cure for issues with antibiotics (except doxy, apparently). Also good for getting rid of canker sores. And I read somewhere that moms who are getting probiotics during pregnancy or breastfeeding (can't remember) have babies less likely to have eczema (and allergies? can't remember). Okay, so I can't really remember the details, but it was supposed to be good for baby!

My DH is shopping for big gun probiotics today, so I can get started on our first leg of the doxy. Want it over with. And I will stock up on the BRAT diet to counteract side effects also. Everyone knows that one, don't they? Bananas, rice, applesauce, toast. Has anything on that changed, Andrea? When I was still in social work, working with kids, I learned about the BRAT diet to combat diarrhea.








Keeping all of you in my thoughts and prayers.


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## gretasmommy

Ugh! I just typed a super long reply, and it timed out!

So, in a nut shell, I really didn;t think I could be PG this cycle. Really, I do know how these things work, but we had very, very few opportunities this cycle coupled with an amazing number of family and work stresses . . . . I really didn't think it was a possibility. And the spotting began the day I O'd, and was brown for about 5-6 days, then turned red (still light) on 7-9 DPO. I got a faint pos. urine test on 11 DPO, and my betas have been looking good, so . .. .here i am. The spotting never had an odd odor to it, but it was there, everyday. Now it has stopped - thank God! I really don't think I could emotionally manage the next few weeks if I were spotting every day!

About the supplements. Now, of course, I am doing everything I can possibly do. But I haven't taken any vitamins or supplements sine the loss in the end of February - my body wasn't being nice to me, and I wasn't going to be nice to it . . you see. Funny, a few weeks ago, I had nothing to list ona "what medications do you take" list. Now I can fill it up! It does feel good to be doing something. To be in control of some little part of this.

I have an u/s at 5+ weeks next Thursday (to see a sac in the right place), with another beta Wednesday. And then meet with the high risk OB folks the following Thursday, hopefully see the heartbeat then. I am lucky to have found docs with the "as long as it's not harmful, let's do everything we can" approach. I am taking prometrium, heparin, aspirin, and the crazy vitamin supplements.

Thanks for understanding like no one else can, and listening I am so scared right now. Trying to be positive. It's hard, though. You all understand.

Keri- as for the BRAT diet, you can add in any and all low fiber starched (white potatoes/bread/crackers/pastas) and chicken (no sauces). And stay away from dairy. Hope it's not so bad this time around.

Mindi- Glad to hear that your first appt went so well! Hopefully you will have far less to talk about other than fun baby stuff from now on!


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## Jennifer3141

Andrea!! Congrats sweety!!!! You have all my best wishes for a very sticky baby.

Mindi, I'm so glad you are comfortable with your MW.

I'm CD 25ish. I have a killer case of PMS exacerbated by staying with my parents for a week. Oh, the weight I've gained.








No nipple pain so no hope of a pregnancy for me this cycle and we nailed it once or twice too.









Keri, I've had the clap. I got mine from my PARROT. Oh, the gyn was confused by those levels.








(Rememeber what people used to call "parrot fever?" Turns out it's a form of chlamydia and you get it by breathing in shed cells from an infected parrot.)


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## Mammax4

Well, I suppose I am barging in on this thread now too!! Seems to be my M.O. here. (I am Keri's cyberstalker














)

okay, nevermind that I am really only a lurker...

Andrea, I must tell you I am happy to hear your news. One day, one step at a time my friend. These ladies will help you keep the crazy from getting too crazy.

Mindi22 congratulations too!

Micheline


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## lolalapcat

Andrea, of course you are scared. How could you not be? Like my stalker says, one day at a time. Do some deep breathing throughout the day. We're with you, and you have AWESOME doctors!

Spotting has stopped, what a complete relief!

Would cold compresses help with the bruising from the shots? I presume the shots will continue throughout the pregnancy? From one pincushion to another, hang in there.

I'm traumatized by the refined carbs suggestion. My goal in life is to completely eliminated those foods, and replace with whole grains! I'm sure the doxy will convince me. I may start it this weekend, sooner than the doc recommended. It's a weight, I need to get it over with.

Jen, PMS exacerbated by parents? I can hardly believe that!







(I work with my parents. Sometimes good, sometimes the 7th level of hell!)

Parrot flu, I'd have fed that parrot to the cats so fast.....

Thanks for calling it the clap! Now that word is reverberating in my head!

I've started on more probiotics, and digestive enzymes. Anybody know about those?

Mindi, thinking of you. Hang in there, dear.


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## Jennifer3141

Keri, I worked with my parents for 10 years full time before retiring to be a mother. I worship you now.

Kill my bird because the previous owner was a schmuck?! Never!









How are our little preggies doing? Updates please!!


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## Mindi22

Well, nothing really new to share. I have my 8 week US tomorrow and I'm, quite simply, terrified. I want to have good news, and part of me thinks it will be, but I'm still reeling from two consecutive m/c's that I don't know what caused them.

Right now, I can't seem to quiet my brain enough to get rest. Plus, I'm feeling queasy, and I'm not sure how much of it is nerves and how much of it is just morning sickness... probably a combination of both, and I'm sure it would help if
I could just get to sleep.... ARGH!

Please, pray to whatever God or Goddess you cater to, light a candle, cross your fingers, whatever you can do... I'll take any of it *grin*. I will update you all as soon as I can.

Blessings,
Mindi


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## lolalapcat

Mindi, thinking about you and your u/s today. You do remain in my prayers, you don't even have to ask!

Kindly update us on your appointment, if you would.

Hoping calm and peace and serenity settle over you to help you through.

Jen, thanks for the worship--that's a new one for me! Things are actually much, much easier at work since my Mom is bowing out of the bookkeeping. Now if I could only get that checkbook to balance...

I'm surviving the doxycycline, yogurt and enzymes and powerful probiotics seem to be helping. It is still affecting my appetite---nothing sounds good. Not even chocolate!


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## gretasmommy

Thanks, Mich! Welcome to our little thread . . it's a nice place! Who knew Keri had a cyber-stalker (are you just a little worried, Keri?!).

Mindi-
I live in fear every day . . . .I can't sleep well . . I can't really explain it to most, but I just can't relax yet. These next 2 weeks are where things have gone badly for me in the past. Perhaps after my u/s tomorrow I will feel better. Or after the one next Thursday. Who knows. But I understand, and am thinking and praying every day for us both to get through this. I haven't been able to join a DDC. I have already left 2. Don't want to do that again. Not even the PALs thread. Not yet.

Keri-
Glad to hear that the spotting has stopped. Any chance of shortening the doxy course?

THanks for asking how things are going. The meds are a bummer - but I am so glad to have a plan. The heparin is awful. My belly is already covered in terrible bruises (each shot leaves about a 2.5 inch round bruise), and I have to do the every day for the duration. I am going to run out of concealed places soon. And today the site bled onto my skirt! That hasn't happened yet! They usually don't bleed! More things to ask the perinatologist next week.
My betas are rising nicely. I expected it to be 2400 if it was doing a tad better than doubling every two days - and it was 4704 today! One week ago it was 127. Last wednesday. Yay! But I am trying not to get my hopes up . .. . WE are not testing progesterone, as I am supplementing with nightly prometrium anyway, and my levels pre-supplementation were fine.
I just love the nurse at the RE's office! She is always so sweet and positive. It helps to ahve her be so supportive, and not entirely clinical. She said that they have had a string of good outcomes lately, and she was just goign to add me to that list! We'll see . . . .the u/s tomorrow should just show a sac in the uterus. Probably too early to see much else. NExt week hopefully more!

I'll let you know how it goes. thanks again for , well, for everything. Holding us all in the light tonight (and everynight, really).


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## Mindi22

(drum roll, please)

So I had my US today, and very happily, there is a heartbeat, and everything looks great. Heart rate is 167, which is great for this stage. EDD according to the US is 2/15, a few days ahead of my charting calculations, but it's all good!

So, needless to say, I'm thrilled. And I realize there are no guarantees, but just the knowledge that everything is good up to today makes me so excited.

Andrea - I understand not wanting to join a DDC. It took a lot for me to join the Feb club, and I had to keep reminding myself that joining the club wasn't a jinx! But it's hard to leave once you're there, and saying good bye sucks, so I understand the reluctance. I'm sorry to hear about all the bruising - that really stinks. but I can see where it's nice to have a plan, and I'm glad that you like the nurse that you see - that's always good!

keri - You feeling better? How long is the doxy cycle? Is it just a little bit wrong that I'm jealous that I don't have a cyber-stalker??


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## lolalapcat

Mindi and Andrea, I am so very, very relieved to hear good news! Great heartbeat and great hormone levels.....that is wonderful!

Andrea, those shots sound so nasty. It's time limited, at least. Long time at this point. Ugh. But if this is the answer.....

So now I'm waiting for an u/s update from you too!

I've joined this board after loss #3, so I've never, ever seen a DDC. It was a happy coincidence that after perusing other parts of the board that I found I had a lot of common interests with the site.

But I have looked at PALS. It makes my blood pressure increase. Vicarious nerves.

It's such a unique situation, having multiple losses. It's so hard to be optimistic, to get invested, to let down your guard.

Okay, enough musing. You have your space here, as long as you need it. Of course I will expect the same, some day relatively soon!

Andrea, I meant the spotting from the surgery had stopped....I don't yet know how the doxy will affect the post-period bleeding, although I'm dying of curiosity. It currently looks like I'm not going to O this cycle, or I'm having an extremely wonky cycle.

And if the doc wants me on doxy for 6 months, if that's what he says will cure this deep seated infection, then watch me go! I'm even taking the doxy on an empty stomach, for better effectiveness. Last night was the first really bad time I've had with it--barfy and headache. 9 more days, then off til day 1 of the next cycle.

Mindi, it's FABULOUS having a cyber stalker! I do consider myself very lucky! If you wind up moving to a DDC at some point, would you like me to stalk you? I would do that for you!


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## gretasmommy

The PALS thread makes my BP gop up as well. Any reference to pregnancy does that at this point. It's what happens after you've become a "serial miscarrier"! I just can't settle into this yet. I am doing everything I can to keep this baby - who, according to the u/s today is simply a little tiny sac. At just 5 weeks there really wasn't any hope of seeing anything more. But for now, I need not be worried about this baby being lodged in a tube somewhere. Worry number one- check. Next, we hope to see a little grain next week, and a heartbeat the next week. Labs weekly until the heartbeat, then u/s weekly until after 12 weeks. If we make it that far. It's so hard to be optimistic, you know. Experience is a powerful teacher.

Mindi- Terrific news!!!! I hope to be right on your heels, if that's okay. It's not quite like a cyber stalker . . . . but it's the best I can do!

Keri- Yep. Doxy for you is like the heparin for me. It's just what we've got to do. Yuck. Sorry about the "empty stomach" rule - it just makes the nausea even worse!

Take care. I am off to take the girls (G and my niece, M) to swimming lessons.


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## roslyn

Hello Andrea and Mindi, I lit candles for both of you today. I understand just how frightened you are.

I'm finally back from the vacation. I had no idea how much I need a rest. It was fabulous and yes, we wound up in the river, but even that was great. Other than scrapes and bruises we're fine.

I'm supposed to O tomorrow, so we've been DTD like crazy. I didn't take my meds while on vacation (I know, I know) but I didn't want to feel bad. Now I'm back on them, and its like Revenge of the Metformin! My tummy is going nuts and I feel like I've been pulled backwards through a needle eye. Yet, the dance continues. Man the things you do to have a baby. *smh*

I guess after tomorrow I'll be back in the 2ww. I'll be so depressed if I'm not, and scared to death if I am. I don't know at the moment which is worse.

I didn't write the whole time I was on vacation so I'm woefully behind. I got some decent wordcount today, but now I feel even worse so I'm off to bed.


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## lolalapcat

Roslyn, I'm glad you survived the whitewater rafting, and had fun! A restful vacation, that sounds sublime.

Here's hoping the your body re-adapts rapidly to the Metformin. You and Andrea, ouch. It's making me grateful that doxy is all I'm on. Hang in there.

Andrea, did I just read that your estimated due date is Greta's birthday? That's so cool! And it was big for you to alter your signature...big leap of faith. ((((((Hug))))))) (can't post smilies for some reason)

So I'm going to rant here.

We had visitors in town, friends of my parents. They went out with my parents Wednesday night.

Yesterday they came in to the work site, and Dad and I went to lunch with them. Nice discussion going on, until I automatically reach over to Dad's plate and steal the dill pickles. Okay, dumb move, in retrospect. But it's our lunchtime routine, and I didn't think about it for even a second.

Mr. Visitor says 'is there anything we need to know, we know you are trying to get pregnant.'

Deer in headlights. I stammered for a good 15 seconds, then said 'no, I'm pretty sure there's nothing you need to know about'.

And it went on, unbelievably. Mr. Visitor went on about whether or not I'm sure, since his ex-wife was pickle/ice cream obsessed when pregnant.

I repeated first line, and said I like any pickled food. It's my German blood. Then the conversation blissfully turned to family heritage.

So the question is, do I talk with my parents before killing them, or just get it over with?

Why why why why why why why would they do that---AGAIN? Talk about the most sensitive part of my life with relatively casual friends? We had this discussion when I was pregnant with #3, and they told the contractor building their house, among other people. Blazing idiots.

My Dad left work right after lunch, partly because he had things to do, but I'm sure he left early to avoid me. Gigantic trust violating chicken.

I am extraordinarily mad. Flames shooting out of my head mad.

And I have to go to work. With my Dad. And my Mom will undoubtedly call at least once today. And I would prefer to not deal with this when I am so very angry.

But at least it's Friday, so I can take out my angst on the hedge and the weeds in the garden.

Thanks for listening.


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## Jennifer3141

Ok Keri, I'm confused. It looks like your Dad just didn't say anythng during the exchange with Mr. V. Or was your Dad egging the conversation on?

Oh Roslyn, how I HATED Metformin!! I once had to leave a pair of panties in my local grocery store's potty because I couldn't make it all the way to the bathroom. Wicked, nasty stuff!! It did help my blood sugars but whatever you do - don't ever drink and take it. I thought I was going to die!!
One of my good friends has PCOS too and she is pregnant with her second IVF baby. She had to do a few cycles on Metformin and I laughed so hard the day she called me and thanked for the advice of keeping extra pants in her trunk!

Mindi, I'm so glad you're doing well. Hang on there, hon. You've only got a few more weeks until your through this trimester.

Andrea, I just want to wrap you up in a big fuzzy blanket for the next few weeks. I'm really rooting for you!! We all are!


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## gretasmommy

Wow, Keri. What an awful experience with your visitors. I think I would kill my parents first, talk later. How insensitive. Clearly, they just don't get it.

Yes, I am due (hopefully) on G's birthday. I am taking that as some sort of sign. A positive sign. I could use all the positive energy possible now. I am simpy trying to ignore this pregnancy for another week, until the next u/s. Praying every day. hoping time will pass more quickly. We are going on vacation tomorrow to York beach with G, and that will pass a few days easily, I think. Warm air, salt water, a few good books and some knitting. Then we come home Wednesday and I get another HCg that day, then u/s Thursday. Whew.

Thanks for the happy thoughts, ladies. I really, really appreciate them.

Roslyn- welcome back. I hope the metformin treats you more kindly this go around.

Jen- I could use that fuzzy blanket! It's cold up here tonight!

See you all in a few days!


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## roslyn

Oh Keri, that had to be so frustrating. My family was the same way. If you didn't want the universe to know your business you couldn't share it with them. My dh had that problem too. Imagine my horror when my bil asked about my fibroid surgery! I really, really wanted to strangle my dh. I have no desire to ever discuss my uterus with my bil again! Though I must say that my dh's nephew's reaction was utterly charming. He was about eight at the time, and was only told that I needed 'female surgery.' I guess the only 'female surgery' he knew about was plastic surgery, so he responded, 'But she's beautiful, why's she having female surgery?' Yep, as soon as I could I baked him a batch of his fave oatmeal raisin cookies.

I'm reasonably adjusted to the Meformin again. I just feel generally crappy, but I no longer feel as though I'm dying. Yes, I know better than to drink alcohol or eat too many carbs while on it, and lets just say I don't just carry baby wipes for the little guy anymore. (TMI, I know!) That's why I didn't take it while on vacation. We were on that river for three hours, with no facilities in sight! Of course, after being off it, drinking alcohol and eating carbs, I've gained back five pounds now. That's so frustrating, but I'll be diligent about getting that off again. I only had 15 pounds to go to reach my weight goal, but I'll get there.

I think I missed my O, or at least it never showed up on the OPK. I suspect I O'd Wednesday instead of Thursday because the line has been getting fainter instead of darker. (I started testing Thursday). If I did O Wednesday, that'll be great because we DTD Monday, Wednesday, and Saturday so we should have a good chance. (I wish we'd DTD Tuesday as well, but after getting dunked in the river we were just too tired. Despite scorching temperatures, that water was COLD!!!)

If nothing happens this month its back to the doctor. I probably should've gone this month, but since we barely DTD last month I didn't feel right going until we had a chance to try really hard.


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## lolalapcat

Wowza. Those Metformin stories are really eye opening! Gruesome stuff. Hang in there, Roslyn!

Why back to the doc now? What is the plan, if you don't mind me asking?

Jenn, what's going on with you now? How's your DS? How are you?

Andrea, I hope your vacation helps keep you preoccupied until the next u/s. You and Mindi are really on my mind these days.

Thanks for all the shock and horror in re: to the 'are you pregnant' conversation with a person I haven't seen in 6 or 7 years.

Yes, my Dad and Mrs. Visitor said nothing during the uncomfortable exchange.

I asked my Dad how that conversation came to pass, and he admitted he may have mentioned something about our pregnancy issues when I was in for one of the surgeries. Like he couldn't tell people it was my freaking appendix??? Or better yet, just say I had taken some time off????

He said he thought I was being over sensitive. I told him OF COURSE I AM!!! This is my life that we are talking about! And I told him that my trust has been very publicly violated before, so my reaction was perfectly justified. We've been over this before!

He said people always comment on women eating pickles. I told him they sure as hell don't, or I would have received that comment before. He said it was something he might have said (total lie, my Dad does not ask intrusive questions of people). I told him for the record it is NEVER okay to speculate about the contents of a woman's uterus.

I basically beat him up, verbally. He got himself into this situation, he had it coming. It is rare that he invokes my white hot rage, I felt kinda bad afterwards, and I'm sure he was smarting from it. We normally have such a good relationship.....

But on the upside, DH and I had a lovely dinner lastnight with DH's hunting buddies. At the end of the evening one of the guys caught me alone in the kitchen, and asked how I really was, and said they knew we were trying for kids and they were keeping us in their thoughts and prayers. He is a lawyer--he said if we decided to look into adoption, he would help.

Now that's the way people should be. It's making me tear up now. It was respectful, not intrusive, helpful. Unexpected. Considerate.

Ugh. The doxy is making me want to barf this morning. I think I'll go dump some more coffee on top of it.

Hope your Sunday is a good one, friends!


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## Jennifer3141

I too tend not to share too much with my family. I did let them read DS' OT report but they didn't get it anyway. I knew that was going to happen.









We're doing ok. DS is going through a non-sleeping phase again. So I'm more tired that usual. It will change again eventually.

I'm in the 150s weight wise. I'm now comfortable really TTCing. I had a 28 day cycle last month. AF took me completely by surprise. I get it now. I need to keep my weight down.

I'm sorry that your soft spots got attacked, Keri. It's funny how those closest to us can sometimes forget about them isn't it?


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## lolalapcat

Jen--

Your DS is in a non-sleeping phase---just how non-sleeping is he? Sleep deprivation adds up fast. Hmmm, it is good training for another baby, though.

Isn't it nice when your body does something normal? 28 days is so nice and predictable. My temp spiked yesterday, on day 23 instead of day 14, and I've had bizarre cervical mucus this time around. I yearn for normal, yet again.

I have seen more and more info about body fat affecting hormones. The human body is so very complicated, it's amazing so many women get pregnant and have babies without having any trouble.

It's so hot here, and I don't work in AC and have been doing yard work. All I want to eat is ice and cold fruit. It's actually an effort to stay hydrated. Blech.


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## Jennifer3141

He wakes up four or five times a night. I like to do most of my house cleaning when they are sleeping and at this point, I just have to give up. As soon as I get him sleep stabilized - BAM! He stops sleeping. Oy.

I had some mucous yesterday - CD 10 for me. We DTD. I'll try to get DH tomorrow too.








I swear not to get too serious about TTCing until the early fall. I'm also not about to let a cycle go without a teeny shot!

It's been a few days, Mindi. How are you doing?


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## Mammax4

Mindi 22.... does this help?
















Andrea - I am keeping you in my thoughts and prayers. I too take the EDD as a positive sign. I must admit that I do check in here from time to time, but have not wanted to barge in. I shoulda stuck my nose in at the very beginning!

Keri, I am sorry about Mr. Visitor and the pickle. That is a throw back of sorts to the stupid things people say.
I noticed the other thread is not even on the first page of threads?!
I will try to be a much better stalker.

Micheline


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## Mindi22

Things here have been going okay, I'm still pregnant, and very overcome with m/s and puking these days. Nothing sounds good to me most of the time, and the only things that I can actually keep down are junk food. I'm considering pizza today... mmmm... pizza. veggies just sound awful and salads make me gag. But other than that (and indeed, in spite of that) I can't complain too much. Hopefully this pukey phase won't last too much longer, but if it's what I need to go through to have a healthy baby, I'll do it, darn it!

Keri - sorry about your dad. What a big poopyhead.







:

Jen - you sleeping any better? Ugh, there have been a few nights where DS doesn't sleep well, and one night knocks me out. Can't imagine more than one in a row right now.

Micheline - does that mean that you're becoming my cyber stalker as well?? COOL!









roslyn - how are you doing?

Andrea - you hanging in there? Is your US this week or next week? I can't keep track!


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## Mammax4

Mindi 22 - careful what you wish for!







I could be your hobby stalker if ya' like! I need to pay attention to this thread a little more seriously to determine if you are crazy enough for me to stalk you more seriously. My bet is being part of the loss forum is indication you are/can be pretty crazy.

I'm not sure if Keri will want to share the stalker in me though...







Maybe we could stalk you together, the you'd have two cyberstalkers!!

Mich.


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## gretasmommy

Glad/sorry to hear about the m/s, Mindi. I am a little nauseated, not too bad yet, but I am just 6 weeks so far. I had another HCG yesterday, which has only served to make me worry. It was 28,245. Not bad, but apparently it stops doubling after week 5-6, somewhere around 6500 or so. Last Wed it was 4704, and the Wed before that it was 127. So last week's HCG was fabulous. I was hoping to hit over 60,000 . . . not realizing that the doubling thing already slows down. The RE wasn't worried . . . but I can't help myself. Ihave an u/s in about an hour, then meet with the perinatalogist. We'll see how this goes. I am trying to reassure myself with comparing to last fall's HCG. At 6W4D, it was just over 18,000 . . . .now yesterday's numbers are at 5W5D (or 5W6D, depending on how you count the overnight arrival of the last period!). That sounds encouraging, right?

Trying hard to hang in there . . just a short while longer . . . we get to leave in half an hour . . .


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## Mindi22

Oh Andrea... I'm crossing my fingers for you. Please keep us posted when you're able to. The HCG levels sound good, and it's good that the RE wasn't concerned.

I know how scary that US is, though. Many blessings!

Mindi


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## gretasmommy

We saw our little grain of rice . . . . . and a heartbeat!!!!

Another milestone to check off, making me feel truly happy tonight. According to the perinatologist, who I really like, this cuts my risk of miscarriage down from 16-18% to 5%. That's a dramatic difference. We spoke at length about how to continue to follow this pregnancy and what to expect . . . . very nice guy. I have the go-ahead to see my midwife, and return for periodic check in's with the perinatologist. Also good news.

Thanks for your thoughts, ladies. Really appreciate them! I know we are not out of the woods yet, but we are already past the times when things began to go badly before . . . .good interval growth int he sac, a nice little grain of rice . .. .a heartbeat!!!! Feeling a bit better tonight. One day at a time . . .

Oh. The most important thing for us all . . . he spoke about some newer research concerning pericervical embrytoxic substances that are difficult and expensive to test for, but very real , leading to first trimester losses (recurrent). . . .and do you know what the treatment for these things is?

PROGESTERONE SUPPOSITORIES!!!!!!! I was all set to lobby hard for the rationale for continuing these ( I am taking 200 mg prometrium vag supp nightly), and he said that he routinely uses them for the first 16 weeks in anyone with an otherwise unexplained first trimester loss. Just hearing that made me sooooo happy! So, the takehome message to me was that we should all be on nightly prometrium with future pregnancies. Just thought that was interesting and helpful.


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## lolalapcat

Andrea and Mindi, good good good.

Morning sickness is a good sign, I have heard. Where did I hear that? I'll try to reference a real source, if I can. But my gut tells me it's a good sign, albeit unpleasant. Pizza it is! Eat what your body tells you to eat.

Andrea, congrats on a HAPPY moment! Hooray! A heartbeat!

Okay, so pericervical--around the cervix---embryotoxins--things toxic to embryos. I'm figuring this out out loud here. So what are the toxic things? Is this something like a cervical infection, can the cervix be infected in isolation without involving other regions, or is it something like a hydrosalpinx (damaged Fallopian tube that retains fluid that can drip out and harm an embryo)? Like the cervix is somehow retaining otherwise normal substances that can be harmful?

I don't get it, but I need to!!! God bless the researchers who are trying to solve early losses (and late losses too!) They are not 'normal' and shouldn't be common!!!

Andrea, could you get me a source of that research, so I can forward it to my extremely open minded doctor, please? I have progesterone suppositories in my fridge from last year, but not 16 weeks worth, and they might be duds by now. I want every base covered. Completely covered.

Mich, I'm trying to stalk all these women, but just be darned if I have the time. I'd appreciate some help!

Jen, I wasn't ignoring your reply to my question, our computer was down for a couple of days, and I have been cleaning every morning so we can entertain at night.....blechy schedule. I wish I was there to run interference on some of your DS's 'wake ups' so you could get some sleep! Hang in there.

Roslyn, you must have written several thousand words by now....keep at it! I miss you, but you have a deadline!


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## gretasmommy

Keri- I will get what I can. The perinatologist said they are substances - proteins and enzymes- that our bodies make (????) that result in early pregnancy loss. He said they are very difficult to test for and quite expensive, and by the time you find out you have them it's often too late. He said it's much better (and he also said "standard of care for a woman with recurrent losses in the first trimester") to simply use 200mg prometrium vaginally each night for the first 16 weeks. I'll bet you can ask the pharmacist about the shelf life of yours. I am using oral prometrium vaginally. It's actually covered by my insurance, so it's $10 a month. The Folgard and Fragmin, not as cheap, but worth every penny. Keri, I was thinking very specifically about you as the perinatologist was telling me about these embryotoxins. Why is it that this isn't all over the loss boards???!!! We should all get this, like fluoride in the water supply, you know? And by "we" I mean those of us here on this particular board. One of the many reasons I like this doc is that he is very upfront about what he knows and what is still in the process of discovery . . . and he admits that my MTHFR mutation is very new and that in 10 or 20 more years we will know a great deal more about this . . but for now there is a great deal of "gray area" where recurrent loss and MTHFR mutations are concerned. But he said that shouldn't stop me from having a healthy pregnancy this time. I just wanted to kiss him!

Anyway, I will ask more about the research about these embryotoxins . . . and use my prometrium nightly!


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## lolalapcat

Thanks for responding so lightning fast, Andrea!

Proteins and enzymes...what the heck? Who knew? Are these normally present? How does the progesterone change things? Must learn more!

Thanks for thinking of me when he brought up the topic. I think I'm becoming borderline activist on the topic of recurrent miscarriages. There are so many reasons, so many things to check for....I hate the fallacy that gets perpetuated that recurrent m/c's are normal or bad luck. It does not serve us to buy into that. Fetal wasting.

And I'm gonna be a gigantic hairless guinea pig, trying all kinds of things to see if they work. Okay, not hairless, but comparatively baldish.

Yeah, I occasionally want to hug my doctor too. If he can help me have a baby, I really would consider naming a boy after him. Of course, Thomas is also a family name...


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## roslyn

So, I'm not pregnant. Worse, I'm having another 21 day cycle. And I can't see my doctor until August 30th. I need to start charting. Clearly I have no idea when I'm ovulating, or for that matter IF I'm ovulating. *grrrr* I'm really scared that something is really wrong, and I don't want to wait until August to find out.

Does anyone know a quick and easy on-line tutorial. I went to Fertility Friend and I'm so confused I don't know where to begin. I don't understand the difference between their basic and VIP membership. Will the basic tell me when I'm fertile? I don't need fancy bells and whistles, just basic information. I'm going to go eat something I have no business eating. I'm too bummed for words.


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## christinespurlock

Roslyn,
You could always just buy a pack of the ovulation pee test strip. About a week after your peroid use one a day and it will tell you when and if you O. A short cycle is not necessarly a bad sign. What matters most is the time between O and the next cycle should be at least 12 or so days for the little guy to get estabalished. (I just can't spell) So on a 21 day cycle if you O on day 6-10ish you'd be okay.


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## lolalapcat

Hey, Roslyn.









That sucks. I'm sorry.

My understanding is that you need to have enough time pre-O for the endometrium to be built up adequately for a fertilized egg to implant successfully, and you need enough time post-O for hormones to be built up to sustain the embryo until the placenta develops and takes over.

So the short cycle could be an issue, based on what I have learned from the current doc.

But it's like everything else we know, what happens with one woman won't necessarily hold true with another.

Taking your temperature will give you a pretty accurate idea of when you are ovulating. A temp spike of .4 degrees indicates that you have ovulated.

So my May temping shows my temp anywhere from 97.2 to 97.5 (I know, corpsy cold). On 18th it went up to 97.9. According to my CM charting, I O'd on the 17th. The temp chart shows the same thing.

Any digital thermometer that reads in tenths, a little calendar to record it, and take your temp before you get out of bed. Easy.

If you want, I'll coach you on the basics of charting (but not as well as an actual trained teacher of charting). It is a bit more confusing than taking temps, but it makes sense when you get a little charting time under your belt.

My cycle is a disaster this month. I was having O type CM, but no temp spike until late, and the O type CM has gone on and on and on...something isn't right. Post surgery blues. Waiting for day 1 so I can start thyroid therapy, and perhaps correct the corpsy cold body temp.

Christine, I didn't know they sold pee strips to determine O. I thought I knew every product in that aisle! That would be super easy too, and less expensive than the more elaborate O testing kits.


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## christinespurlock

C_hristine, I didn't know they sold pee strips to determine O. I thought I knew every product in that aisle! That would be super easy too, and less expensive than the more elaborate O testing kits.[/QUOTE]_

I think I get it from Walgreens. I buy the brand that comes in a kit of 30 for 12 bucks. (usually last 2-3 months) After my period is over I use one everyday. Looks just like pregnancy test. I see a faint line the day before I O and the next day a dark one just after I've O'd. Temping is free but this I can do anytime of day.And I just might addicted to looking for lines!


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## roslyn

I got those little strips. I think 20 was about $16 at CVS. I will try Walgreen's next time. But get this. I had one spot on Friday, and nothing since. I've never spotted before or had any other type bleeding, so I have no idea what that was. Implantation bleeding? hmmmm We'll just have to see.


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## gretasmommy

I have always used the ovulation predictor kits - I prefer the Rite Aid brand . . . . you POAS for the 5-7 days in the middle of your cycle, starting 3 days before you usually O, and unlike PG tests (this is important 'cause it can result in serious freaking out if you foget!) you will always see 2 lines. You have to wait for the test line to be as dark or darker that the control line. That's the LH surge that preceeds ovualtion by 12-36 hours (avg 18-24 hrs). Then you DTD that day/night (pee in the mid day timeframe) and the next 2 days . . .. .optimal timing for egg catching.

Keri- Really????? You haven't seen these????????? They are right next to the HPT kits . . .

Christine- I often used more than one OPK stick in a day . . . particularly if it was heading toward positive . . .

Roslyn- implantation bleeding is a very real thing . . . I had it this time, and last time as well . . . thinking good thoughts for you!

Hi Mindi, Jen, (Mich!!!)! Off to read Potter far too late into the night tonight . . . .


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## lolalapcat

Andrea, really, I've never seen the OPK strips. Like litmus paper? I've seen the more expensive ones that look like HPTs. But I haven't spent much time in that section of the aisle, as I have gotten pregnant pretty easily, back when my cycle was predictable.

I've have purchased exactly one OPK, as the request of 1st RE. It predicted ovulation that resulted in m/c #3, and we sure as heck haven't tried to conceive since, so I have an unused OP tester sitting in the bathroom cabinet, all dusty. Right next to the dusty HPTs.

The temping is cheap and easy and tells me exactly the same thing, and I know when my period is going to start first thing in the morning, instead of having to look at a calendar. Sometimes looking at a calendar is too much of an effort, you know?

All I want is for the stupid period to start. Stupid wonky period. I have been in such a nasty temper for a few days now, I could use a hormonal shift! It requires all my energy to be civilized. Ugh.

And I want to start the thyroid treatment. I took my last antibiotic last night, but I am supposed to take them days 1-7 of the next 6 cycles, so I'm about to go right back on them. Hmmmph. Okay, it's not metaformin or heparin, I'll shut up!

Husband is reading HP #7, I am rereading all of them before I read 7. On number 1. There is so much I had forgotten! Eh, I read #1 years ago, I can't even remember what I did two days ago.


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## Jennifer3141

Hi everyone!

Roslyn, I'm with you on this cycle being a bust. DH was on nights and was just too damn tired to DTD. I'm so sorry about your wonky cycle. I used a fertility monitor for a long time. I think I'm going to do it again next cycle just to see what happens. Personally, I think we're going to be pregnant together.

Andrea, I'm so happy everything is going well.

DS has started sleeping again. Whew.

I haven't started HP yet. I was waiting for the last book to get written. I'm looking for a nice boxed set now. I'll start it in September.


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## roslyn

Keri, did you say you're going to be on antibiotics for the next six cycles? Yikes! That's enough to make you grumpy. I hate taking antibiotics. At least with the met as long as I stay away from forbidden foods I'm not too miserable. Antibiotics are yucky regardless.

Sorry for your bad mood, I certainly understand. Tell you what, I'll bake some cookies for you. What's your fave?

I'm thinking seriously about using an HPT tomorrow morning. Yes, I know I can just wait a couple more days but dagnabit, I want to know!

I think I'm the only person on the planet not reading HP. I'm too busy trying to WRITE a best-seller. And get this, I forgot I'd promised to be a part of an anthology. Now I've got to write a 20,000 word story by August 1. Ye Gods, how do I get into these things?!?


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## lolalapcat

Jen, I am so pleased your son is sleeping again! That must be a relief.

You are funny! I was thinking about buying HP 1 in hardback, so my whole HP collection would match. You haven't read any of them? They are brain candy.

Roslyn, my Dad, brother and 2 of my best friends are not HP readers. You have company!

That's so sweet, to offer to bake me cookies! I'm a purist, chocolate chip are my favorite. But the thought alone is enough, I know how busy you are. August 1st is looming.

I hope you are not too busy to take an HPT! Tell us, tell us, tell us!

Mindi, how are you doing these days?

Christine, feel free to join in!


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## gretasmommy

I have been thinking about getting the first HP in harcover as well! It bothers me a bit to see that sad little soft cover on the shelf next to the robust hardcover sequels! I just finished The Deathly Hallows last night - worth ever missed hour of sleep, IMO! . . .but I won't say any more for a while, until Keri catches up!

Jen- Whew. So glad you are getting more rest now!

Roslyn- Can you even type that fast? 20,000 words by next week? Not just random words . . . I could never work as a writer! Are you really writing a novel? I can't wait to read it! And where is the HPT result form this morning???!!!!!

Keri- Here's to hoping AF shows soon for you. I didn't use OPK's or even temping this past cycle either. The getting pregnant hasn't been the hard part for us either. It's more the staying pregnant. I did like the OPK's better than temping as they showed you right *before* you O, thus making the timing of BDing much easier to have appropriately timed.

So far things are going well. One big downside to prometrium is that you occasionally get a few streaks of bloody CM. Ack! It's just a little. Every 3 - 4 days. Pink to red to brown. Hardly any.

Enough to make me nearly go out of my mind, though!!!!

Trying to remain clam and think positively. Next Thursday is our next u/s and also the point at which things really declared themselves with our first loss. I am just trying to hang in there until then. This week, right about now, is when things began to look as though we might lose the baby back in September last fall. Needless to say, sleep isn't coming very easily right now.


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## Mindi22

Andrea - I hope the US goes well. I know how scared I was before mine - remember to breathe! The bloody mucus is scary - I'm impressed you're holding it together!

Keri - glad your spirits are holding up! Have you started the new HP? I'm also re-reading through all the others before we get it, and I'm in the middle of book 4 now. You're right, it is brain candy!

Roslyn - wow, girl, you've got quite a deadline looming. I hope you're a fast writer and a fast typist! I've always wanted to write a book, but I don't think I could deal with deadlines!

Jen - wow, that's some self control you have - waiting until September!

Things here are going well. I just had my 10/11 week appointment today, and we heard a heartbeat on the doppler. YEAH!!!!! It was strong, steady and loud, I actually was kind of surprised that it was so loud right now, but yeah! I'm having my own internal party right about now, though. I can't believe there's actually a baby in there!

I'm off to float on a cloud or something, because I'm likely not getting any work done today!


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## roslyn

Definitely. Not. Pregnant. Took the HPT this morning.

So now, could somebody tell me where the hell my period is? I've been spotting off and on since Friday, but still no period. I'm so frustrated I could scream.

As if I didn't have enough reason to hate Metformin, now it has totally screwed up my cycle. Before I got on this demonic drug my cycles were so regular you could set the atomic clock by them. I could get pregnant at the drop of a hat. Now, I don't even know when or if I ovulate anymore. Arrrgghh! I'm going to have a martini, its got to be cocktail time somewhere.

Oh, btw, I am a fast typist. Typically if the words are really flowing I write about 2k-3k words a night. Of course, last night I only got 750. *grrr* But I'm probably still on target to finish on time. And remember, this is only the rough draft, I'll probably take a few days to polish it before sending it in. Anyway, off to martini time.


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## lolalapcat

Roslyn, my period is now a week late. (No, no chance of pregnancy. We are avoiding that until the doctor gives us the go ahead.)

But I am stuck in permanent PMS. This is my own personal hell. I wanna know the same thing, where in the blazing hell is my period???? And I can't proceed with antibiotics or thyroid medicine, as it all coincides with the stupid missing period. Grrrrr.

If I wasn't drinking coffee I'd have a martini with you. Okay, I'd have to dilute it with something, but I'd have gin or vodka with you!

Hang in there. Perhaps the stress of the deadlines is weighing on you more heavily than you realize.

Mindi, hooray for the heartbeat! That is fabulous news. I'll bet you floated all day!

I just started HP 2. Dobby was in the second book? I have the worst memory ever. Tell me anything, I can keep a secret, by default at least!

Andrea, anniversaries and benchmarks, what torture. Hang in there, this pregnancy is very different from the others. Maybe when the next u/s is over, you will be able to relax a bit.

Are you surviving the heparin?

Jenn, send me some of that cooler, drier Michigan air--I'm about to drown in the humidity here! Eh, it does make my hair curl.


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## roslyn

Sorry Mindi, I'm a self-absorbed witch. I totally missed your fabulous news. I'm so excited for you.

Andrea, try to relax, though I know that's nearly impossible.

Period finally came and its a doozy! Didn't write a thing last night, or do much of anything. My sweetheart of a hubby put the little guy to bed, and did the same for me.

Forgot to tell y'all. We got a mini-van this past weekend. I'm madly in love with the thing. We got a van in expectation of another child. Plus, our son is so tall that in his carseat his head was touching the ceiling in our old car! -lol- I guess it'll be a bit of a waste if we don't have another child. My mil is curious as to why we bought a van with 'just one' child.


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## gretasmommy

Yay, Mindi!!!!!! Fabulous news!!! Yay for heartbeats!!!!

Roslyn- Wow. Sorry about the awful period. Hope it leaves quickly and you feel more yourself soon.

Keri- Where the heck is AF???? sometimes there si such comfort in the predictability of our bodies' rhythms. Is it possible that the antibiotics are playing that much of a role in you hormonal cycle? It's been pretty humid here these past few days as well - unusual for Maine. I think G and I are going to the beach for a bit, before swimming lessons.

No more scant bloody CM in a few days . . . . feeling very queasy. I can't wait until the 8W u/s next week. I think I will breathe much more easily then. I also think I will tell G after that. It is strange not sharing this with her. She is such a big part of my life, but I have to balance being her mom with wanting to include her because she should know first, you know. She is only 5, and while she is a bright girl, I don't want to emotionally overwhelm her.

One more week . . . .


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## lolalapcat

Okay, I can't count. My period is 5 days late. That's not so bad.

Still no temp drop today. Still bloated/fatigued/cranky, very pms-y. Weird.

Andrea, I'm not sure if the antibiotics affect hormones much. I do know that my charting trainer said antibiotics can improve the quality of CM, not that I noticed any difference! So there is obviously some tie in. And it's supposed to be targeting my uterus, so who knows?

Did you tell G you were pregnant either of the other pregnancies? I'm just curious, don't answer if I am asking too much.

Roslyn, it sounds like your AF showed up with a vengeance. Ick. I hope you are feeling better. Your DH gets a gold star for letting you rest!

We are getting ready for a work-related trip, so work has been a little stressful. Tuesday we will leave for New Mexico. I love that state, so am looking forward to it, but at the same time don't want to leave my routine. DH and I have only been back to 'normal' life for a week!

Have a pleasant Friday, friends.


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## Jennifer3141

Keri, there is no cooler, drier MI air up here anymore.








It's humid as heck (all my little fuzz hairs are all curled up!







) and everything is dry and dead because we're in drought mode. I'm sorry about the period, my friend.

Mindi!!! Congrats, honey! Oh, that sound! I actually bought a Doppler with my first and I remember just being in utter awe of that sound.

I'm in PMS mode. Ack.


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## gretasmommy

Hey, no real humidity here in Maine . . . . .

I am survivng the heparin. It's getting tough to find injection sites, as each leaves a nice sized bruise for a week or so. Lovely belly I have! Truthfully, though, it's worth every shot, and then some.

No, I hadn't told G about the other pregnancies. I was almost to that point witht he first one, but then it began to feel as though something wasn't right. And the second time it just went too quickly. I am leaning toward telling her after the u/s next week. I will start to really show soon (to the trained eye, I already do a bit!), and I feel like sharing with her before our friends . . . I don't want her to hear from anyone else. And as long as the u/s goes well, I will feel better about things. I know there are always risks, and apparently my greatest risk of complications is in the third trimester. Clearly she will be in on things before then!

Off to LLBean to find a suitable bathing suit for the remainder of the summer. I despise shopping for clothes for me.


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## lolalapcat

It's that careful balance of humidity---enough to make my hair wavy and keep me from developing scaly skin, but not so much that I have a coat of damp all over my person. Maybe 60%.

Yesterday was awful---cooler, but the air was TOUCHING me every single second of the day! I wanted a shower 20 minutes after I had just had one!
Ick.

But next week I'll be in New Mexico, and my hair will be like this____________!

Jenn, I'm sorry you have our sticky, drought-y weather. Water, water in the air, but not a drop for the dry cracked earth.

Andrea, I was just wondering. G may be old enough that knowing about the earlier m/c's would make her kinda scared about this pregnancy. Someday she'll have to know that reality (since she may have the MTHFR gene, and it's good for her to know in any event) but she's so little right now. Sometimes it's okay to construct a happy world for kids, shield them from the nasty that is life.

Hope in a syringe. I am really glad you fell pregnant (to use Tan's term!) so quickly, so the idea of the heparin didn't scare you off.

Hmm. Take photos of your belly, so when this babe is a lippy teenager you can pull out the photos and say "see what I went through for you!" Classic guilt trip material!

My temp dropped today, so I am waiting. If no AF, I'll call the doc on Monday and see what to do about starting more doxy (hooray!) and the T3. I do not like limbo, I just want to get things rolling. If we already have to wait for the 6 months of doxy...ugh.

Have a good weekend, friends!


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## lolalapcat

Finally, the period has materialized. And now would be the time to insert my fears about early onset menopause, the doctor having accidentally whacked out some important parts during surgery, my body staging a full scale rebellion after the hell it has been through.......panicky neurosis stuff. The period is truly a relief!

And I have a fresh doxy sitting in my empty stomach uke

Not to mention I am still suffering from the last course.









Today we are shopping for a little alarm clock that I can carry on my person, to remind me to take the T3 in precise 12 hour intervals. I'm so pleased to be leaving on a long car trip and working through next weekend. The timing is excruciating.

Bitchbitchbitchbitchbitch.

It's all for the greater good. Last night I chased our 16 month old godson around and around the dining room table...at least 20 times. He'd occasionally fall to the floor giggling, and let me tickle his tummy. I want one of those!

Andrea, I hope the shopping went well. I'm with you---I really dislike a couple pairs of capris, and really really dislike all of my jeans (except the ones for work). I should shop for something comfortable and flattering, but what a pain that is! Trying on clothes, ugh.


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## Jennifer3141

I have PMS like a lunatic.








I really do want another baby. I have no clue how to do it but I want him/her!

Aw Keri, I'm glad the period finally showed up!

I have garlic bread in the house and I swear I started drooling thinking about it. Anyone need any PMS hormones?!? Just rub up against me at this point.


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## gretasmommy

Oh, Keri! So sorry! These next six (?five now) cycles will be the same???? Are the probiotics helping at all? What about an alarm on a watch to remind you about the T3? At least (if you are like me and sleep/shower/live always with your watch on) it would always be with you.

Yes, I do think G knowing about the previous losses just might make her worry about this pregnancy. She is an incredibly emotionally-tuned in kid. I think she already suspects something is up with me (though she doesn't know what it might be) because she has been wanting and needing extra hugs and snuggling a lot with me. I think I will talk with her about the baby after this week's u/s, in part because I can't wait to tell her and see her face, but also because I really fear that someone might spill the beans to her unintentionally soon! I absolutely (at 7 + weeks) have the littlest pooch of a tummy, and I would guess that is only going to get worse. And tha tpooch, by the way, made bathing suit shopping a horror! I did come home with a ridiculously "granny" black skirted bathing suit. Really. It's awful. But it hides the bruises on my tummy (all of the 2 piece tankinis roll a little at the waist with movement and show my scary belly), and actually minimizes the poochiness of my already-poochy-before-pregnancy tummy (perhaps because the skirt is so distracting!). I should take pics of my belly *and* the awful bathing suit to show him/her someday! Thanks for thinking positively . . . I am still terrified, but hopefully Thursday will bring good news and reason for more hope.

Off to eat mint chocolate chip ice cream in a yummy waffle cone ( I know, it doesn't help the pooch . . . .but baby wants ice cream!).


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## Jennifer3141

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gretasmommy* 
)
Off to eat mint chocolate chip ice cream in a yummy waffle cone ( I know, it doesn't help the pooch . . . .but baby wants ice cream!).

Frankly Andrea, so does this baby's Aunt Jen!!!







:


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## gretasmommy

and it was goooooood ice cream!!!!!! I'll save you some!


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## Jennifer3141

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gretasmommy* 







and it was goooooood ice cream!!!!!! I'll save you some!

Yeah, sure. I haven't met many pregnant women wo can do that!!


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## lolalapcat

Jenn, I'm only rubbing up against you to get mint chip ice cream, you can keep the PMS hormones! I just dumped a bunch of those myself.

Andrea, the black skirted bathing suit sounds classy. Run with that!

Yes, a watch makes sense. I am now wearing one of the ugly utilitarian things, from now until the end of time, which I will know about because I am wearing a watch.

This is a watch with 2 daily alarms, which is why I got this one. It will also keep a record of my lap times. Hahahahaha! I wanted the one that takes the wearer's pulse, but it didn't have 2 alarms. Bummer.

And it's digital, which makes me feel 10 years old again. I do have a hard time telling time, so it's for the best I suppose. I have real watch issues, don't I?

We'll see. I'll start the T3 today, but after 2 days I'm supposed to call the clinic with pulse/temp info so they can adjust the dose, but I'm going to be on the road. I have 2 different dosages, so hopefully it'll be covered. If not, I'll try again next month.

Probiotics seem to help, but heaven forbid I miss a day! That's when the real trouble started. And it's getting complicated, I have to take some stuff on an empty stomach, some with a meal, some can't be taken with calcium, some not with multis...I need a spreadsheet so I can time all this out.

DH found me yogurt smoothies that have several strains of bacteria in them, so that's another avenue. All this stuff that needs to be refrigerated, and I'm going to be traveling....

Boy, I am one complaining, whiny person. Sorry about that. I'll readjust my attitude.

Okay, I'm off. Leave for NM in the morning, will be gone until the middle of next week.

Andrea, I'll be thinking of you and your Thursday u/s and telling G! Roslyn, the deadline looms, I hope it's under control. Do you have an appt with your Dr? Jenn, I'll explain how to get a baby when I get back! Mindi, are you still on a cloud? Hang in there, that's a great place to be!


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## gretasmommy

Have a great trip, Keri.

Jen- Yes, we apparently need to talk about this making-the-baby thing. It's really quite simple, you see . . .

Mindi and Roslyn -


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## Jennifer3141

Wait. Is this going to be the discussion about "mommies and daddies?!"









I don't have a clue how to do an infant, a 4 year old, and a SN 3 year old. That's the part that confuzzles me.

Take care on your voyages, Keri! I hope you have enough of everything you need while traveling. Holy cow!!

Roslyn is probably under 4 feet of paper.


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## roslyn

Good luck on your trip Keri! I am buried under a mound of paper. I'm so tired I'm literally cross-eyed. That has to be why I'm thinking of having a tattoo. I want my baby's footprints, but I can't figure out where. If I put them somewhere inconspicuous, I won't be able to see them, but if they're visible, people will ask stupid questions. Oh well, this urge will probably go away once I start getting more than two hours of sleep per night!

I think I'll O on Monday, so the next week will be spent DTDing. Where will I find the time?

Ice cream sounds lovely, but its so not worth it. I had strawberry short cake last night and I'm still paying for it. Metformin is a tool of Satan, I have no doubt.

Oh well, my editing won't get done by itself. I'll check back in later.


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## gretasmommy

Sorry to be a bit quiet . . . It has been a rough couple of days. My step FIL passed away early Sunday morning, unexpectedly. It's been stressful, dealing with all of the family drama while caring for myself and MIL. . . . . in the midst of this, Tuesday night while simply lying in bed reading, I started bleeding. Bright red, in a little gush. The last time that happened, it ended badly 24 hours later. This stopped, but that left me no peace. I debated all night long with myself, trying to decide what the best course of action would be.

By 6 am I had made up my mind to play the "doctor" card with a local midwife/friend. I called her and told her what was going on (it had stopped during the night, really one gush total). She offered to meet me at her office just before the owrk day began and do an u/s - I jumped at the offer! I had prepared myself all night long for the inevitable. But when the picture first popped up on the screen (I wasn't looking), Elsa (mw) quickly drew in her breath and I started to cry (thinking it was bad) - and she burst out with "She looks perfect!!!". I cried in disbelief, and the ultrasonographer scanned for another 10 minutes as I just watched and cried as the little heart was fluttering away at a healthy 150 BPM!!! He (or she) looked just like a little gummy bear, and measured right on for dates, no signs of any bleeding or problems. Elsa said that we'll never know exactly what happened, but that it was likely a cervical polyp that burst ( not uncommon on heparin).

Whatever it was, I just pray it never *EVER* happens again!!! I did ask Elsa what to do if it does re-occur, and she said just to give her a call and come on over. I just love her!!!! ANd the office is walkable from my house, right next to my office, actually.

So, tomorrow I head out for a crazy long drive to NJ and back for FIL's memorial service (there tomorrow, back the next day) with a happy heart!

Thanks for listening, as always.


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## Mindi22

Andrea,
Your story made me cry. Thanks for sharing your good news, I'm so glad that it is good news regarding the little one. And I'm so glad that your friend is so supportive and is able to offer you that reassurance! I'm sorry to hear about your FIL, many blessings to you and all your family!

Roslyn - hope that you're finding your way out from under all that paper! And use DTD as work breaks next week? *grin* always a good stress reliever!

Jen - I thought it was a birds and the bees discussion myself. I was looking forward to it! and Mint CC ice cream sounds delish.... maybe I'll get some of that today!

Keri - hope your trip is going well. And I don't think you're whiny - hey, if you have to let it out, where better than here with those who get it, right?

Things here aren't too bad, as long as I don't dwell on the nausea and vomiting. Damn, it's nice to know the kidlet is there and doing well, but some good days would be nice now and then! (Of course, I worry too much on my good days, so I can't win). I made a CPM friend of mine come to my house the other day so she could Doppler me and hear the heartbeat. Was reassuring, definitely, but really makes me want to invest in one so I can use it whenever I need that reassurance! And to think that I was once against ultrasounds.... ha!


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## Jennifer3141

Hi everyone!

Andrea, I'm so sorry for your loss. I hope take care of yourself and your family.









Mindi, I'm sorry you're nauseous as all get out. Ack.

Roslyn, have fun DTD this week! Oh, and get a little work done.









I'm off for a week with the kids to a womyn's music festival. A week of camping in the woods will either be divine or a disaster!!


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## lolalapcat

Hi, all!

Andrea, your post scared me to death. Thank heavens the baby is all right!

I'm sorry to hear about your step FIL. It's so hard to lose loved ones, or those close to our loved ones. I hope your DH and MIL are doing okay.

Mindi, hang in there! Have you tried candied ginger for the nausea? Or mini meals throughout the day? That helped my best friend, eating pretty continually so she never got hungry. She was sick through the second trimester, I hope you're luckier than that!

Jen, a week of camping is my nightmare. I hope you are having fun! And have sunscreen, an air mattress, bug repellent, decent food, no rain, no raccoons in your food supplies, no snakes, dry matches....what else does good camping require?

Roslyn, you cannot survive on 2 hours of sleep a night! Want me to write something for you? I never shut up IRL, I could go on and on.

Hmm. Tattoo over your heart. Concealable, but you will see it everyday. And it's lovely symbolism.

The trip was okay. Good people, lovely scenery. I miss NM so much, I'm having the urge to move back. Or run away, I'm not sure which it is.

Mom's not so good. Traveling was very hard on her. I learned I can lift another human being upright from the floor, and get her back in her wheelchair. I resent having that knowledge foisted upon me, and having her in that position of need.

Finished the doxy yesterday, now 3 weeks off. Woohoo! Just 5 more months....

T3 is interesting. I'm doing okay so far with the exact 12 hour dosage. No real side effects. My temp got up to 98.6 today! That's completely unheard of with me, unless I'm running a fever.

I have 11 minutes to eat. T3 has to be taken on an empty stomach. Must run!


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## roslyn

Hello everyone! This has been a crazy week! The hubby and I were in the newspapers this past week for a story on interracial marriages. A talk show in NYC interviewed me about the same subject. So now, I'm woefully behind on my deadline. I have 6000 words to go by Wednesday!

I've been using those ovulation test strips and nothing is showing up. I'm not sure what the story is. I've seeing CM changes, so I'm pretty sure I'm Oing. Of course, dh's work schedule is ridiculous, so we don't have a chance to DTD this week. Yesterday he went to work at six and didn't home until eight o'clock so tired he couldn't even eat. He doesn't do well under pressure either. Aaarrrghhhh!!! I'm going insane here and NOT getting any younger. If I thought it would help, I'd hit him really, really hard.

Keri, NM is one state I've never been to. It sounds absolutely lovely. I've always wanted to go to the southwest. Heat without humidity sounds totally divine.

I like the idea of the tattoo over my heart. I was thinking about in the crook of my arm, pretty much where you'd hold a baby. That's probably too visible. I dunno.


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## Mammax4

roslyn - just poking my head in here to add my 2 pennies...

I am getting tattoo'd tomorrow. I am having mine done on my left shoulder - at the shoulder blade. I figure that way I decide who sees it. I am not a wearer of strapless or spagetti straped fancy outfits, so placement will be fine. My thinking is that it is under my heart (if I was to be laying down) and yet like an angel on my shoulder. a bit goofy, but there it is!

I'm having a celtic swirl done. It is a triskele. It has three lines that signify maiden, mother and crone. The power/wisdom of woman. I am adding three blue dots to the outside of the center - this represents the 3 boys I have. I will also have a pink dot away from the triskele which represents the one I lost.

It can be difficult to choose which and where, too many choices. Good luck with yours!

Micheline


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## roslyn

My stillbirth is really hitting me hard today. I thought I was much better, but I think I only dealt with it by focusing on getting pregnant again. Now I'm realizing that is probably unlikely. The thought that I'll never have another baby is agonizing and I've wanted to weep all day.


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## gretasmommy

Roslyn

I am so sorry you are having a rough day. I find that my periods of experiencing intence waves of grief often catch me by surprise. I have learned that allowing myself to feel them, and not try to push them deeper and move on in the moment, has helped tremendously.

Thinking of you. Take care of yourself, and know that we are here for you.


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## gretasmommy

Mich- nice tattoo. I love the blue and pink dots - so clear for you (and many of us), yet not so for those who might just peek at it.

It's nice to "see" you!

On to better news for me - we saw our little one today - s/he looked wonderful! Great HB at 171 and even moving around a lot!!! Amazing to see! I am feeling much more confident today . . . for how long, I don't know, but I am simply enjoying this moment.

Thanks for sharing it!


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## lolalapcat

Oh, Roslyn.









Go ahead and weep. You have earned the right.

And don't say you don't think you will get pregnant again. You just don't know what may happen. It hasn't been that long since you were pregnant, you know.

I've said it before, I'll say it again, limbo sucks. Not knowing is so hard. And our paths are kinda scary. Too much reality.

Take care, get some rest.


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## lolalapcat

How's everyone doing? I worry a bit when no ones posts.

Roslyn, I was working on my family tree yesterday and thought of you anytime I ran across evidence of a 40 something woman having babies.

My temp was an astronomical 98.1 this morning. Go, T3!


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## gretasmommy

Yay,Keri! Do you actually feel warmer? That's a nearly normal body temp!

Things are fine here. Off to work, on call again. Blah. I did go back to the gym this morning for the first time since I found out about this baby. I know it's irrational, but I exercised regualrly, including weightlifting, with my last 2 pregnancies, and I lost those. Now I feel safer in this one, ready to take care of myself by exercising. I actually feel much better when I go to the gym - I notice I have less back pain. Tomorrow I start weight lifting, if call tonight isn't too awful.

Roslyn, I hope you are typing away!


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## Mindi22

Hi everyone!

No major news here to report, except to say that I'd feel a lot better if I could keep food down.... ugh. Still have major m/s and nausea and just overall feeling pretty crappy. Add to that, a bit worried. A woman in my DDC just lost her baby at 12 weeks (well, she found out at 12 w, but it happened earlier) and she'd had a great US at 8 weeks with a hb and everything, so I just start getting worried about my pg. Ugh... I hate the living in the uncertainty, you know? A friend of mine asked me the other day when I would stop worrying, and I couldn't really say, I hope that once I'm able to feel movement regularly, and I'll have that reassurance, I'll feel more confident, but you know, I could well find something else to stress out about at that point! I mean, really, what fun is life without a bit of worry, right?????

Andrea - awesome news about the US. Glad to hear that all is going well.

Keri - wow, how hot are you??? 98.1 sounds like a major heat wave to me!

Roslyn - I hope you're feeling better a few days after that last post. Like others have said, you never know what can happen, and you're NOT old! I hope you're getting caught up on your deadline - and you weren't too distracted by your newfound celebrity!









Jen - how was the festival? Divine or disaster???


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## Jennifer3141

The fest was DIVINE!!! My kids had so much fun it was ridiculous. And my body is running so well after an entire week of vegetarian fare.

Roslyn, I'm approaching my due date. I'm so very sorry for your tremendous loss.

I set my intention for number 3 at fest. I'm ready. I'm really ready. It's CD 10 today and we DTD. I'm going to try to seduce DH a few more times this week, every other day. I'm really ready.

I'm so glad our belly beans are thriving!!


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## lolalapcat

Hi all!

Mindi, how could you stop worrying, once reality has dawned? It would be strange if you _weren't_ worried, at least a little.

I guess it's our challenge to not let worry consume us, to accept each day for what it is, knowing that ultimately we have very limited control. Andrea, do you have some actual insight here?

And really, has anyone else heard that morning sickness is a sign of a really sticky baby?

Hang in there....

Jen, what made the fest divine? I'm picturing music and dancing and such.

That's great, that you are now clearly ready to go for #3! It sounds like a page has turned. Go get that hubby!

Andrea, exercise....you set the bar so high for us! I used to exercise. It was good. Is it true that women who exercise have shorter labors?

I don't feel any different on the T3. Yesterday my temp averaged over 98.6, but I had a headache with it, and am wondering if I actually had a fever. No other signs of illness.

It's ragweed season here, which could explain the headache, and the temp could be from the T3. I don't know what is going on!


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## gretasmommy

Mindi- I am so worried about this baby every day! I have flickers of confidence, but the fear and doubt are with me always. These boards are full of mamas who have lost their babies after wonderful u/s's with strong HB's int he first trimester . . . . I think I will feel a *little* better after the 12 week u/s, as most seem to be mid first tri losses . . . . .but who knows. I truly think I will only feel better once I am holding this baby in my arms!

What does help me is to talk with this baby every day. To focus on the symptoms I do have (as awful as thay are, m/s and crazy sore breasts are really good things, things that I asked for!), and to remind myself of all the things that are different this time around. Usually it helps (a little).

Jen- Glad to hear you are feeling so good about things and ready to take this enormous step. Enjoy your week!

Roslyn- Thinking of you . . .

Keri- I hope you are feeling better! Perhaps it's just the ragweed . . .

Well, thanks for the boost about exercising, but really, I could use it! I am entering this PG overweight, and would have liked to lose a bit more beforehand . . but things happen as they do for a reason, and there's always time to lose later







. I am trying to take good care of myself now, while I can!

Off to bed. Little league softball world series game is almost over, but TN is beating the pants off CT!


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## roslyn

Sorry I've been out of pocket for so long. I finished one of my projects. That leaves me with two to go. I also finished Luke's quilt. He started pre-school last week. I'm delighted to have some free time, but he's been my constant companion for three years--I really miss the little guy.

I'm not feeling so hot. AF and Metformin is really making me illish. Can't wait to see the doctor next week! Want to just go to bed, but I've got too much to do.

Andrea and Mindi I'm sending as many good vibes as possible your way. I do understand about the fears. I went through that when I was pregnant with Luke.

Keri, I'm really trying to raise my spirits, but I'm feeling so hopeless these days. Maybe I'm just tired. I've been working so hard. All those 'how could I not have known' thoughts keep going through my mind. I feel horrible that I killed my baby through my own ignorance. I've been crying a lot about it, and I know I'm driving my poor dh crazy. I'm welling up now just thinking about it.


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## lolalapcat

Oh, Roslyn.









You didn't kill your babies any more than you would harm your Luke.

We aren't omnipotent, there was no way for you to know what was going on with your body any more than I did, or Andrea did. You know full well, if you had known what was wrong with your body you would have been on the medicine years ago. But you didn't know, and it's not your fault.

Please, no self flagellation. You do not deserve it.

I can only imagine you are tired from all the projects and deadlines. And your little one is in preschool---that's a huge change. Are you as change-resistant as I am?

But I'm pretty sure the tears are pent up, and need to be set free. Cry away.

And dump your head out here. That's what this place is for, so you don't have to be alone with all your thoughts. We will listen.

Be gentle with yourself. I am thinking of you.


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## Mindi22

Hi everyone! Been quiet around here lately!









My quick update, I'm starting to feel little flutters here and there, which is very encouraging. It's nice to have some sense of a baby, beyond just being told that I'm pregnant, if that makes any sense. I'm still sick in the mornings, and start feeling queasy in the evenings, but generally, the daytimes are improving, so that's nice. I'm trying to savor the moments, and not complain about the sucky stuff, knowing how much I want this baby, but sometimes it's easy to focus on the negative part of the experience, which does give me some measure of guilt, kwim?

Roslyn, you can't take responsibility for something you didn't know about! I get the sadness and the self blame thing (believe me, I'm quite good at that stuff!) but please, even when you don't believe it, remind yourself it's not your fault! And when you're not able to do it, ask me, and I'll remind you, ok? I think the extra sadness right now is just processing all your new information, and it will pass, though, please, keep your head high and keep yourself surrounded with folks who love you! Are you feeling better from the drug stuff?

Keri - how are you feeling these days? Where are you in your med cycling?

Andrea - I've been thinking about you, too. I hope that you and baby are both doing well. Any news?

Jen - how did the seduction go? If all went as planned, you're in your 2ww right now, right? Any positive signs? Or am I being too pushy?









Blessings to all of you. You know how much you mean to me!


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## gretasmommy

Glad to hear you are doing well. It's nice to hear what's coming next! I am 12 weeks now, and really, _really hoping to feel better soon! Nothing really appeals to me, except frozen fruit - grapes are my current favorite. Sigh. I want to enjoy regular foods again.

Roslyn- How's the marathon writing going?

Jen- 2WW???????

Keri- Are you hanging in there through the rounds of doxy? How many more?

I had my 12 W nuchal lucency scan today and got to watch the baby jumping around, rolling and kicking! It took forever to get the right position and I even had to go drink more water, then empty some because I overshot it!!!! Have you ever had to go sooooo badly, and then been told to only go a little??!!! Anyway, the u/s looked great, but we need to await the results once the bloodwork comes back as well.

G starts kindergarten next week - seems impossible! She's ready, I am not._


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## lolalapcat

It's so good to hear that you are both doing well, and your little ones are growing on schedule! I feel a measure of relief, hearing that news.

Frozen grapes, I have never tried that. At least it's something healthy you are craving, Andrea! Or allowed by the m/s...

And Mindi, you can complain about months of nausea, that doesn't make you ungrateful for the pregnancy, just for the barfiness! I'm glad you are starting to feel better.

I'm in the 2nd course of doxy taken with my cycle, so 4 more cycles. It is still unpleasant, but more proactive management of the side effects does help.

And I need to fax my temps to the Dr. to see if he wants to adjust the T3. Temps are up and down, just as they normally are with my cycle. It is nice to occasionally see a '98' on the thermometer!

DH bought a bike, and we are cleaning up the old bike. My test drive around 3 blocks last night left me pathetically winded, so it's good that we are planning on getting some exercise!

Roslyn? Jen? How are things going?


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## roslyn

Sorry, I've been out of pocket for so long. I am feeling somewhat better. Dh has been plying me with chocolate and martinis. He knows me so well.

I finished Luke's quilt. I think it came out well. I think I told y'all I finished the short story, but I'm still working on the novel. I've also got two more short stories (1000 words each) to finish up next week. I've got three people to interview for those. Then it'll be off to the conference, and hopefully I'll get an agent or editor or both for my trouble (and money).

Went to the doctor Thursday. Thankfully he took me off Metformin because of the tummy upset. I'm on Actos now and it doesn't seem too bad. I'll also be starting injectable fertility drugs later this month because I don't seem to be ovulating. According to my doctor Clomid doesn't seem to work for women my age, so we're going directly for the big guns. We won't be doing IVF (no money), but I'll be injecting myself in the tummy for ten days. I guess it goes without saying that I'm not looking forward to this.

Mindi, it's so great you're feeling flutters now. That's the best feeling in the world. Andrea, I loved frozen fruit when I was pregnant. And I couldn't get enough frozen sorbet. I could eat that stuff by the pound.

Keri, I've got to get going with some type of exercise. I think it's awesome you got a bike. We've thought about that, but have nowhere to put it. We're thinking about renovating our house, but right now we don't have a garage. Goddess bless you on the doxy.

It's funny, one of my girlfriends posted a video of herself injecting the fertility drugs. And I was watching it and thanking Goddess I didn't have to do that. Yeah, I can see the irony of going to the doctor an hour later and being put on the same regimen. Yeesh! I made my dh watch the video because I know he won't be anywhere near me when I do it, and he shook his head in amazement and said, "You women are amazing! Y'all can take it, men are absolute wimps in comparison." I can definitely say that about you Keri, and all these weeks on doxy.


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## gretasmommy

Roslyn- I am not sure what your injections entail, but I inject heparin daily into my belly, about a 1/2 inch needle, a bit thicker than a diabetic's needle . . . . and it's not too bad. Really. It stings a little, and I have to make sure to put a bandaid on afterwards. You can do whatever it takes to make this happen. Hang in there!


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## Jennifer3141

I tested yesterday. It was a huge BFN. I'm just sitting here waitng for AF to start. Damn. I wanted an April baby!!

Oh Mindi! The flutters! Congrats!!

Oh Roslyn, I'm so sorry you are heading down that path. I did that too. It was awful. I'll be thinking of you!!


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## lolalapcat

Hey all!

Jen, sorry about the BFN. All in good time...

Roslyn, what I have found is that everything is worse in my head than it is in real life. I was so worked up about the T3 taken EXACTLY 12 hours apart, and it's really not bad to manage it.

Only the first few injections will be icky, after that you will be a pro! You can do this!

I am a gigantic whiner when it comes to the doxy, but DH has to take it too, so my misery has company. Thanks for thinking of me. Done with the doxy for a few weeks here, hooray!

Anyway, I didn't realize you had options other than Metaformin. I hope this new one is much, much better!

Went on a bike ride yesterday, it was fun! I had forgotten how much I liked to ride bikes.

Hope you all had an enjoyable holiday weekend!


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## roslyn

WooHoo! I've got all my projects finished! I feel like dancing in the streets. (Still working on the novel, but it's almost done!) I can't believe I did it.

Got my instructions on doing injectables today, but can't start until October. This cycle I'll be in Atlanta for a book conference.

Jen, I know this late, but sorry about the BFN.

Andrea, I think I'll be okay with injectables, I'm just so impatient to start!!!

How's everybody else? Incubating mommies?


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## roslyn

Hello everybody, just wanted to let you know that I think I've got a BFP. I'm not sure because it's very faint. (I'm not due until tomorrow). This would be incredibly ironic since I had to postpone the Follistim until next month due to my writer's conference.


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## gretasmommy

Wow!!! Fabulous news, Roslyn!!!!

Of course, you are planning to test again and again, right?! It will make you feel more and more confident in your BFP!


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## Mindi22

Oh Roslyn! I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you! YEAH!!!! So there was more than writing going on at that conference, eh???









Jen - sorry about the BFN, I know how frustrating and sad that is after a 2ww!

Keri - oh I miss riding a bike... strange that the only times I think that are when someone else mentions it

Andrea - how are you feeling? How's the pregnancy going?

Things here are going well... starting to feel real motion, and can't quite believe it. I have my next appointment next week, and an US the following week. I wasn't sure if I wanted another US, but DH really did, so I figured even though we weren't finding out sex or anything, it would still be a bit of a relief to see baby on the screen moving and all...


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## lolalapcat

Hello, all!

Roslyn, I am so excited for you! Faint positives are still positives! AND your projects are done, so you can relax a bit and glow!

Mindi, that's wonderful! Go Baby, GO!

Your poor DH, needing extra reassurance. We forget how nervous they can get, don't we?

I have been too, too busy. Wedding last weekend, almost 900 mile roundtrip and two very late nights. Put in a 70 hour workweek this week, straight through the weekend. And I think I had a bout of tonsillitis...sore throat, no other symptoms? Did I mention that almost all of this time was spent with family? And no homicides occurred, woohoo!

There is a chance I have to work this Saturday, but at least there are no more lonnngggg days coming up. Perhaps life will return to a more casual, relaxing pace. Do you think it's possible?

Must refill doxy, round 3 is coming up. I have been more proactive about continuing the probiotics between doses, so hopefully that will help.

On the upside, I am going to make our last truck payment today. Hooray, no more car loans! Maybe now we can buy a bit of new furniture....

Mindi, aren't you a chiropractor? Would you please fix my sciatica? All the hours on my feet on concrete, oof. I have heard the only real cure is surgery, and I really am not signing up for that.

Andrea, how is Greta liking kindergarten? Jenn, how are your kiddos doing?


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## roslyn

It's not looking good. My HcG is only 25. They can't believe it showed up on the urine test. They think I'll probably lose this one. I can't believe it. I go back for another blood test on Wedsnesday. This is a nightmare.


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## Mindi22

Oh Roslyn, I'm so sorry! I'm just so, so, so sorry. It totally sucks, and for what it's worth, we get it around here and feel your pain (at least to a certain extent).


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## lolalapcat

:

Oh, my friend, my heart hurts for you. This is so, so wrong.

I wish I was there in person for you, Roslyn. You know I am with you in spirit.


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## roslyn

Well, I go tomorrow morning so they can draw some blood. I've been spotting today probably three times or so, so I assume that's the beginning of the end. I'm trying to stay positive. I should know tomorrow afternoon one way or another. I don't know why, but this one is the hardest, and I've known about it for a few days. I think I'm done. My soul is tired, and I feel so guilty to keep wasting these babies' lives. That can't be right.


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## lolalapcat

My dear, it is harder because you have been so proactive, doing so much to improve the odds. This wasn't supposed to happen.

I too have dealt with guilt for proceeding with getting pregnant when I KNEW something was wrong. But we are not gods, we do not know what exactly the problem is, we do not know the outcome....maybe then we would be worthy of guilt. You have done nothing to deliberately harm any of your lost babies, you have done nothing less than love them and want them. No cause for guilt.










You are in my thoughts and prayers, friend.


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## roslyn

It's over. This morning it was 6.3. I think I'm having a fit of hysterics.


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## naerae_30

So sorry, Roslyn.... You will be in my thoughts. Take care of yourself!


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## Mindi22

Roslyn,







:
I am so sorry that you are going through this again. Please don't feel responsible - you're certainly not. I know that in some ways it's easier to deal with if we can take some responsibility, but really, there is none to take. You are not wasting lives or babies, and you aren't doing anything wrong. Please, pamper yourself a bit, and even if you don't believe it, let us keep reminding you of that!

Hugs, blessings, and much love,
Mindi


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## lolalapcat

Hysterics are justified. Do what you need to---let it out.


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## Jennifer3141

Roslyn, I am so very, very sorry for your loss. I wish I could hug you in person right now.


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## lolalapcat

Thinking of all of you, hoping you are okay.


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## Jennifer3141

Keri, how are you doing??


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## lolalapcat

I guess I'm okay. Thanks for asking.

I've been extremely weepy lately, for no apparent reason.

On the third course of doxy, and still having the brown bleeding at the end of my period. So if it doesn't work, then what? _Sigh._

Our schedules are finally settling down, which is a beautiful thing. All last weekend, nothing scheduled...aaaahhhhhhh.

How are you, Jen?


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## Jennifer3141

I'm doing ok. I'm in the first week of the 2WW. I don't have any symptoms so I'm guessing we missed it on this cycle too. Oh well.


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## lolalapcat

Jen, are you able yet to confirm or deny? One of my pregnancies, the only symptom was exhaustion. I didn't really expect to be pregnant when the test came up positive.

Roslyn, how are you doing? How's your head? You can talk to us, you know.

Mindi, Andrea, I hope things are progressing well...

Take care, friends.


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## Jennifer3141

I'm not pregnant, Keri. Maybe this cycle? Who knows.

We are going on a 10 day road trip to Boston starting today. I'm taking the fertility monitor.

How are our gestating mamas?

Roslyn, I think about you a lot. I hope you are doing ok.


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## PrayinFor12

I see that Jen is ttc? If that's the current topic on the thread, can I join?

I'm ttc. But I have to be on an antibiotic, at least until March of 08, that's very baby-dangerous. And I just lost my first child in July. It's pretty freaky.

Jen, good luck!


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## lolalapcat

Oh, Jen, I hope you have a great time in Boston! That's a place I yearn to see.

And good luck on vacation baby making! It will happen.

Prayinfor12, this thread was a long discussion among several of us who were ttc, but still not ready to leave this board. Roslyn just had another miscarriage, and hasn't stopped here much since. Mindi and Andrea are both having uneventful pregnancies (insert sigh of relief here).

Of course you can get the details on all of that by reading back!

I too am holding off on ttc because I'm on antibiotics for months. My doctor found an endometrial infection back in June. So I am halfway through the course of antibiotics, hoping to cure the endometritis.

May I ask why you are on such a long course of antibiotics?

Everyone







I keep all of you in my prayers.


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## roslyn

I'm still here Keri, just still trying to wrap my mind around the situation. I went to the writer's conference and met some editors who are interested in my book. Maybe with a little luck I'll get a publishing deal.

We're going on vacation next week, so we're postponing the shots until November. I just can't face it right now. It's too much. Thank y'all so much for caring, but I admit, my headspace is very bad right now. I'm not sure I can deal right now.


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## PrayinFor12

Thanks for the summary, Keri. I'll find time to browse back through the thread.

The antibiotics are for Lyme disease. I'm on them a total of 6 months straight. Theoretically, I should be able to stop them in March.

Even though I'm on the antibiotic, we don't use birth control, and I _would_ like to be pregnant again - so that pretty much sums up to "ttc."

Rosyln, good luck.

The 2 that are currently preggie (I'll learn names soon!), I'm happy for you.


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## lolalapcat

Roslyn, it was good to hear from you. That is great news about the editors who are interested in your book!

If there's anything I can do to help....you know I'm here.

Have a lovely vacation.

Prayinfor12, you are now the first person I have ever met who has Lyme Disease! So are you now immune? I had no idea what the treatment was. Wowza.

Yeah, I understood 'ttc'. My DH and I are sort of in the same boat. Technically trying not tc for the last 16 months, but working towards ttc through doctoring and getting in a better head space. Limbo is no fun either, and that's what you and I are in. It is what it is.

Take care.


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## Mammax4

Ladies, I haven't been on MDC in a long time.... I thought I would come and check in to see how you all were doing.

Andrea- are you finding a head space that allows you to exhale - at least once in a while?? I am so happy for you, if it's not too bold, please give Greta's baby sibling a belly rub for me. Hope G is enjoying Kindergarten. Will is!

Mindi- hope your u/s went well. It is comforting to see/hear those beans - hope yours wasn't camera shy!

Roslyn- I am sorry for your loss. I hope that you come to a better head space soon. You have an amazing group here, don't let your grief close you up... although overwhelming at times, it really is better to let some of the 'noise' in your head out. (I know you know that, just encouraging you to take advantage of the spectacular bunch of friends you have here)

Jenn- Hope you are doing well, good luck for this cycle!

Keri- My fellow RL... it's all down hill from here - more than 1/2 way done!! In the blink of an eye you will be finished with all your doxy time. I understand it's too easy for me - not taking it - to say that... but really, not too much more!

PrayinFor12- sorry for your loss.


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## PrayinFor12

Keri, I'm not sure what you meant about being immune regarding the Lyme. If this helps, Lyme cycles so the antibiotic can only work one day a month. It takes at least 4 months for all your blood cells to turn over - that's why I'm on the anti for 6. I'll answer if you clarify though!

Everyone, I'm not even going to mess with the last SEVENTEEN PAGES of this thread. Dude! I'll just clue-in as we go.

I guess I've just slid into officially TTC. I've been thinking of myself as being in the 2ww for a couple days. Wish me serious luck here. AF should come about Nov. 2 - Y'all pray her car breaks down!

Prayin'


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## gretasmommy

Thanks for the tummy rub, Mich!

I haven't been posting much lately. Trying to remain calm and focused on this little one and his/her good health. I still having rough days here and there, and just yesterday morning after a workout found myself driving over to the hospital to take a quick listen! The nurses are all so nice about it - they apparently were listening outside of the curtain as I was searching with the doppler, and just as I found a nice strong HB they exploded in a round of clapping for us!

Every day is one day closer to holding this little one. Every week that this babe grows is one week closer to having a healthy baby . . . .

Thanks for thinking of me. Keri, Roslyn, Jen, Mindi . . .I think of you all often as well. Mich- It's nice to hear from you! G is loving KG! Glad to hear Will is as well.

Breathing . . . . day by day . . .


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## lolalapcat

Hi all!

Mich, thanks for dropping in on us! You know, you didn't tell us how you are doing....

Andrea, it must be really handy to have easy access to testing equipment! I have been wondering if you or Mindi have reached a point where you have ease of mind, or if the fear is still there. One day at a time, one day at a time.

Prayin', I was wondering if you can ever get Lyme disease again, once you have had it. Is it like chicken pox, where you develop immunity after having it once?

I read your other thread....I think that most of the women who post on this board have wondered if anything we did contributed to the loss of our babies. What it comes down to is you didn't know you were going to contract Lyme disease, or you wouldn't have gone to the state park. It just happened, there is no fault, and regretting that decision....well, it's punishing yourself, and you have already been through enough.

Roslyn, how did the writer's conference go?

Jenn, do we get a Boston report?

The antibiotics go on. We are in the 4th cycle. Still having some brown bleeding, so getting pretty concerned that this isn't going to work. It has changed my cycles some, and I'm having freakishly good CM now.

I should call the doctor, but with the husband and Dad out of town I am taking care of the business, stayed with Mom Monday night and again tonight as they couldn't get nursing coverage, the dog is sick so I took him to the vet at 8:30 lastnight, taking the dog to the dogsitter tonight (hour roundtrip),going out of town Friday (to a concert, so hopefully will be fun), doing the ALS walk on Saturday. Must call on dog's labs. There are so many loose ends, I am overwhelmed. Come on, Sunday!

Take care, friends.


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## PrayinFor12

Rosyln, I keep seeing things about you writing. May I ask what it is you're writing?

Jenn, I'm trying to catch up here - what was the Boston trip about?

Keri, I haven't actually looked into the "becoming immune to Lyme" aspect. When Lyme's not caught early (me), your real focus is on surviving it and doing so without long-term injury to any body part. So being able to get it again hasn't been on my radar. I'm just praying I can get rid of it in the first place. I do know that Lyme keeps changing itself so I don't think immunity sounds probable (like many strains of flu.)

Why is it that you're on antibiotics?


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## roslyn

Hello everyone. I'm back from the writer's conference, back from vacation, recovering from the flu. And tired as all get out.

The conference went well. I met couple of editors and an agent that seemed interested in my book. I've been working fiendishly to make some changes and tighten it up before I send it to them, wish me luck!

I'm also pulling some articles together to become a community columnist for our local newspaper, so wish me luck on that as well.

Keri, how many more cycles of the antibiotics? It's just two more, right? If you're producing more CM that should be a good sign I would think. Oh, and I finally finished your books and should have them back in the mail to you next week. Thank you ever so much. I got a ton of new information!

Prayin' I saw your other post as well, just know we've all been there. I'm struggling with the fact that I didn't know I had insulin problems before I got pregnant. I think it's part of the guilt we women always feel about just about everything, but especially this. The hard part is, we just don't know, and never will. Besides, even if we did, it doesn't change anything now does it? (Hope I'm making sense, cold medicine has me zooming.)

I just read a great article in Yankee magazine about lyme disease, if I can find it online I'll link it.

I write a lot of stuff, but my books are romance novels. Check out my website at roslynhardyholcomb.com if you want to know more. I have a blog as well.

Here's the link to the article:

http://www.yankeemagazine.com/issues...es/lymecountry


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## PrayinFor12

Rosyln, EXCELLENT Lyme article you linked to. Not many people are willing to see that side of Lyme, but it's my reality. Fortunately, I was able to diagnose myself and then talked to people all over the country before I found someone willing to treat me. That biopolitical thing is true. I'm still fighting tooth and nail.
Thanks.


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## lolalapcat

Prayin, I am on antibiotics for endometritis. Specifically, my latest doctor found out I have a chlamydia infection in my uterus, despite never having had a positive test for chlamydia.

Now how's that for my own behavior being directly related to my miscarriages?

But I can't change my history, and I won't beat myself up for this. Much. I NEVER would have let this go untreated had I known about it. And it's not like I haven't been to doctor after doctor after doctor, trying to get answers on our m/c's. Can't treat what they don't look for.

Anyway, I'm on doxycycline for the first 10 days of six consecutive cycles.

Yes, Roslyn, I am down to 2 more cycles of the beloved doxy. This last dose was the one where I actually got the probiotic balance right, and suffered very little!

I'm still having the brown bleeding so am getting desperately afraid that all this doxy isn't working. Then what? My 18 month window of being clear from the endometriosis is ticking away. I try not to obsess, since I can't do a damn thing about it. But still. If we can't cure the infection, I absolutely cannot try another pregnancy.

I am glad you got some good information out of the books. It kinda makes you look at turkey and kidney beans in a different light, doesn't it?

Good luck with the editors!

Hi to all!


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## PrayinFor12

Keri, the doxy must be doxycycline? If so, I was on that my first couple months of being treated for Lyme. It was awful! I had to put myself on a very specific eating/take doxy/stay sitting up schedule. I truly hated it and I'm sorry you're on it! Ate a lot of yogurt between pills too!

(I switched to another anti b/c of doxy's bad baby record. The one I'm on now is more of a toss-up baby-wise.)

Anyhow, glad you'll be off it soon. Are you ttc after you're off?

Rosyln, got a funny question: I'm curious as to whether novel-writing types "cheat" with the lovely thesaurus like all us "normal" people do? I hope so. It'd make me feel more verbally brilliant!


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## lolalapcat

Ah, Prayin, you share my intense dislike for doxy! I too am on the empty stomach/ gallon of water/ sitting upright/ freakish amounts of probiotics regimen!

Doxy was the preferred antibiotic, I tried to get out of it. Apparently uterine infections are incredibly difficult to treat, so there was no negotiation.

If my primary symptoms go away (several days of brownish bleeding at the end of my period) then we will be ttc for the first time in over a year. If the symptoms don't go away, I don't know what the plan is. Another type of antibiotic would be my guess.

I want to know about the thesaurus also!


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## roslyn

Ladies, I've got four thesauruses, including one that weighs more than my 3 year old! -lol- I can't imagine writing without one, and even then I'm frequently stuck for a word.

Keri, I had no idea uterine infections were so difficult to treat. I wonder why that is? Maybe you'll get lucky with the endo. Everyone told me my fibroids would grow back, but it's been five years (Praise God and pass the bourbon) and those little buggers haven't made an appearance.

I'm finally only working on one project--the end of the novel, then maybe, just maybe I can come up for air.


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## gretasmommy

Keri- Glad to hear that the doxy is nearly over. Is there a test-of-cure for the chlamydia? Is it simply the absence of bleeding, or can they do another uterine culture? I know I would want to know for sure before TTC or doing another round of antibiotics. I am sorry this has been such a long journey. As much as I know it doesn;t help to blame ourselves, I know that it's impossible to not "go there" sometimes. I am impressed with your ability to maintain such a positive outlook! You are truly inspirational!

Roslyn- I have a writer-friend, and I was so glad to hear about her multiple dictionaries and thesaurses!!!! It makes the rest of us feel a bit better to know that you wordy types struggle sometimes! I hope the editor likes your book. When will you hear form her/him?

Prayin'- The guilt of loss is really like no other I have ever experienced. Completely irrational at times, and absolutely consuming. Difficult to move beyond, but somehow we must. Welcome, and may you find as much support and friendship here as I have.

as for me, we are fine. Baby kicks a bit now, but somehow still I find myself making a very, very early morning trek over to the hospital to listen and calm my fears. I truly don't believe I will feel better until I get to hold this little one. Next u/s in 3 weeks.


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## lolalapcat

They make thesauruses that BIG???? How fun is that?

Roslyn, is your current project a sequel to Rockstar? I still need to pick up a copy of that, but I am on bookstore restriction until I get caught up with all of the unread books. Currently on the Federalist Papers. Don't ask.

Andrea---it's what I imagine any subsequent pregnancy would be like, after multiple losses. Cautious. Hopeful but wary.

But the kicking is good news!

Hate to burst your bubble there, but no one should be impressed by my positive outlook. I'm the one who was trying not to cry while trick or treaters were at my door----I want one of those, you know? And the antibiotics not working---I am starting to feel as though it is time to give up. I am so weary from this. I now understand why people walk away from ttc and don't adopt, or aren't able to adopt.

Thanks for the compliment though.

My doctor really prefers not to do another endometrial culture, as he does them while the patient is under anesthesia and it's invasive. He is more comfortable going by symptoms.

Why is a uterine infection so hard to cure? I'm not sure, but our dog has a prostate infection (they think) and I consulted with 3 vets at the same practice before they settled on an appropriate antibiotic. Same thing, long course of antibiotics, then more testing, then more antibiotics. Some regions of the body are off the beaten path, I guess.








Hang in there, friends.


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## PrayinFor12

Hey Girls!

Keri, I think you're right that some body parts are "off the beaten path." I'm currently trying to get meds into my brain cells. Same deal.
What is the risk of having a baby when you have chlamydia or a uterine infection? I'm not up to speed. Is it "just" that the baby could get the same infection?

Rosyln, I love that you use thesauruses! I feel brilliant now! Not that I have the wild imagination that writing would require, but I'm glad I have the vocab.

Andrea, I'm glad your baby's kicking you! I can't wait to feel that. I never got to with my daughter - she passed away too soon.
And I've noticed that too; that guilt can be completely irrational. I think my logic must've taken over better now 'cause I'm not feeling so bad about it. I finally have understood that even if I did do something I shouldn't have, I never MEANT to do it. My conscience is off the hook.

My update: AF hit hard this morning and a day early at that. I was planning to take a hpt when I woke up and instead poor dh was changing the sheets. This is NOT the kind of morning I really wanted to have!







:


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## roslyn

My massive thesaurus (and dictionary) were gifts from my dh on our first anniversary. They have their own stands and everything. (It's neat to have a dh who knows you so well.)

Keri, I can understand how you're feeling. I felt the same way after the chemical pregnancy in September. Maybe you can take a breather after the doxy. I know you're on a deadline though, with the endometriosis and all. I really don't know what to say.

My current book is called Try a Little Tenderness and it is not a sequel to Rock Star, though a character that's mentioned in that book makes a brief appearance in this one. This book is about a virus hunter and his ex-girlfriend who wind up on a South Pacific island. Sounds idyllic, doesn't it? Unfortunately there's been a genocidal civil war going on there for thirty years, and they're having a horrific virus outbreak. Then they're captured by a warlord and have to escape.

The book I have planned after this is called Dark Star and it is a Rock Star sequel. It's about the heroine of Rock Star's best friend Tonya, and her long-lost love who went off to join the Peace Corps--or not. Involves an international hunt for a terrorist facilitator. (I know, what's a terrorist facilitator? He's the guy that brings various terrorist organizations together to share information and methods.) Anyway, they're looking for him before he can help some terrorists destroy a major city with anthrax disseminated by mosquito spraying trucks. BTW, when you call a major city to ask about the possibility of spreading anthrax with mosquito spraying trucks, and whether or not they secure said trucks (they don't) you will get a 'ping' from Homeland Security. I think I convinced them that I'm just a crazy writer and not a terrorist.

BTW, I just finished reading the Federalist Papers for the umpteenth time.

It's interesting that uterine infections are difficult to treat. Not to mention diagnose. I'm also surprised at how much misdiagnosing goes on. A friend of mine has written a book called Miss Diagnosis. (There's a picture of her on the cover with the crown and sash, like Miss America.) It's about her five-year struggle to be diagnosed with a brain disorder. Amazing!


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## PrayinFor12

Quote:


Originally Posted by *roslyn*
BTW, when you call a major city to ask about the possibility of spreading anthrax with mosquito spraying trucks, and whether or not they secure said trucks (they don't) you will get a 'ping' from Homeland Security. I think I convinced them that I'm just a crazy writer and not a terrorist.

laughup


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## lolalapcat

Prayin, uterine infections can cause miscarriage. Toxic environment, I guess. I used to hyper research everything, but have stopped in an effort to regain sanity. I'll let you know how that goes!

Roslyn, thanks for getting it. This has been a breather, sort of. We haven't ttc since our last m/c, June of last year.

Umm, if Homeland Security comes for you, I'll be a character witness! Wow, you have some intense story lines going on! Fascinating!

You have read the Federalist Papers multiple times? May I ask why? I'm working on a deeper understanding of the foundation of our Constitution. And DH gave the FP to me for my birthday, so I have to read it! Explaining to the masses why we need to be united....what unsure times they were.

We have talked about getting a stand for our gigantic dictionary!!! The commonalities continue.


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## gretasmommy

Federalist Papers??!!! I haven't picked up heavy reading like that (outside of work-related reading, that is!)since school!!! I am currently reading a lovely first novel titled "Love Walks In", by Marisa de los Santos. Amazingly well written, and quite enjoyable. I am not sure whether knitting or reading will win out tonight. I did promise myself that I would finish a baby kimono for as friend tonight . . .and I haven't picked it up all day! Then fire has been too warm, and with Hurricane Noel passing so close by, I just haven't even been able to budge except to play when it's been requested of me.

Keri- I really do see you as a bit of an optimist. Throughout some of my worst times, you were one of the women who helped me maintain my sanity and try to see my way through what seemed unmanageable at the time. I think being able to think positively has nothing to do with breaking down from time to time. We are all able to feel happiness only because we have felt intense sadness as well. FWIW, I had a hard time watching the newborns and 6 month olds as we followed the trick-or-treaters. It is this, in part, that makes us human.

Sigh. Off to tuck G in and decide how to spend the next few hours until I crawl into bed myself!


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## roslyn

Keri I've read it over the years for different reasons. Most recently I was feeling pretty depressed about political stuff (don't want to get into too deep a discussion, my views are pretty radical) and I needed to remind myself that the country *has* been in worse shape and we pulled through.

At other times I just enjoy reading great minds having a real political discourse and not the shouting matches we see on t.v. or the partisan nonsense and spin doctors that pollute so much of today's politics. Nobody seems to have an opinion or view anymore, and it's frustrating. So it's refreshing to read their candor and the struggles they had building this country.

I do wish more people sought a greater understanding of our Constitution. The other day on CNN they were doing a story about lynching, and this guy said to him nooses were a symbol of justice. I just wanted to scream at him that lynching is the absolute antithesis of justice and totally contrary to 'The American Way.' So many people fail to grasp just how radical the concept of federalism was in its time period. That creating a country where people COULDN'T just be executed without due process was almost unheard of in those times.

Sorry, I'm absolutely passionate about this country and the Constitution, and I hate the blase attitude many people have and the way we take it for granted. I sometimes fear that it will all have to be taken away from us before we can truly appreciate it.

Andrea, I haven't knitted in forever. I'm a quilter and just finished a quilt for my little guy this summer, but I need to pick up the knitting needles again. (Just what I need, another project! -lol-)

I've got a little writer's block going at the moment. I think I'm just tired. One of the magazines I worked for folded. It's not surprising, launching a new magazine is a worse business risk than a new restaurant! They paid really well, now I'm scrambling around trying to find other gigs to fill the income gap.


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## lolalapcat

Andrea, thanks. I guess one of my recurring themes is "I Will Survive", which is what I have tried to tell other women on this board.

But I broke the handle off my favorite coffee cup Friday, and am still in distress! Must locate coping skills. I will sing I Will Survive as I search.

Roslyn, I won't go into politics either, but a lot of times I really fear for the future of this nation. Really actively fear. It seems our sovereignty is being threatened at every turn, and no one seems to realize that without our sovereignty, we are nothing. Stupid politicians, they are the ones who should be reading the Federalist Papers!

You are correct, our Constitution is taken for granted. It gets bandied about to make an argument, but people so often seem to miss the whole point.

When I was in Philadelphia a few years ago, they had one of the surviving copies of the Magna Carta on display in the Independence Center. The MAGNA CARTA!!! The first document granting basic rights to the common man!!! It was beautiful, so beautiful.

Nooses, a symbol of justice. What an idiot. They are a symbol of anarchy. It flies in the face of what the Magna Carta established, what the Constitution established.

It gives me hope that you are out there, taking it seriously too! Count my DH in.

Sorry about the magazine folding....I'm sending good vibes your way that another avenue opens up for your writing.))))))))))))

Andrea, I will decompress from the Federalist Papers by picking up some fiction. Well, I will have to read the Constitution first, but that won't take too long!

I hope Noel treats you kindly--the fire sounds lovely.

Blah, blah, blah. I'll stop now! Take care, friends.


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## roslyn

Aaarrrgghhh!!! I am so ready to give up. Okay, I was supposed to start the shots in September, but put them off to go the writer's conference. Decided to go on a desperately needed vacation in October, so again I postponed them. This month I'm ready, and my cycle is late. MY CYCLE IS NEVER LATE!!! Early yes, but never late. Two pregnancy tests--two BFNs, so where the heck is my cycle. Normally I get breast tenderness, salt cravings and insane PMS--this month, nothing. What the heck is going on?

I'm seriously starting to wonder if God(dess) isn't trying to tell me something. Maybe the hubster and I need to just thank Heavens for the blessing of one and move on.


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## Mindi22

Hi Everyone! I'm popping back in from the ether!

It's been a crazy few months, and I've had lots of ups and downs as far as this pregnancy goes, and I haven't been in a great place to share.... but I think I'm coming out of the fear stuff, so here's what's happening in my life:
- I was diagnosed at 20 weeks with a complete Placenta Previa (at the ultrasound that I didn't want to get!), and after doing some internet research on the subject, managed to completely terrify myself. Something about hemorrhaging and pre-term babies set my fear meter off big time!
- My CNM's put me on pelvic rest, which means no sex, no internal exams, and worst of all, no orgasms - I can't tell you how, um.... randy I've been recently! I'm also on lifting restrictions, not supposed to lift more than 20 lbs (which means that DS is out), and while I've been trying to comply, I don't know how to not lift him up ever, kwim?
- I had an appointment with one of my CNM's who basically gave me the worst case scenario stuff with the previa, and freaked me out even more. Especially when she started talking about "age of viability" for the baby.... umm... .early, I can deal with, but lets keep baby in until at least 2008, ok???
- Owning my own business doesn't work well with the idea of bed rest that could occur at any time. It's one thing to plan for a maternity leave, quite another to try to plan with so many unknowns....

Right now, I'm just acting as if I'm going to be here until early February, and we'll see what happens. All of my clients (obviously) know that I'm pregnant, and they are really understanding of how many unknowns there are right now.

I need to catch up with the rest of the thread, it looks like we've had some additions to the conversation - welcome to you ladies!

I hope everyone is well!

Blessings,
Mindi


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## lolalapcat

Roslyn, I would hope God wouldn't spend his/her time sending you messages in this way! Do you suppose there is some mind/body stuff going on? Are you still fearing the shots?

If it's any consolation, my cycle is still wonky from all the stuff they've done under my hood. 5 months, and my body is still cranky. 26 day cycle last month.

Mindi, wow, that is scary. Talk about ratcheting up the tension. Boy, am I glad someone made you get that ultrasound!

I wish you weren't so far away, so I could help you!

Whatever has to happen with the business, has to happen...it's a finite amount of time. It will all work out. DH too, it will all work out.

Is Baby doing okay? How often will they be doing ultrasounds now?

I'm keeping all of you in my prayers...especially praying for calm and peace. And unrandiness for you, Mindi!

I'm on doxy cycle 5. Very nervous about what I'm going to be seeing in a couple of days. Decided not to call the doctor, as I suppose his course of action would be to continue the full 6 cycles, then decide if it has worked. December should be a laugh riot.


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## roslyn

Okay, so I jumped the gun a little. (Nothing new there!) My cycle started today. I realize I did start an exercise program this month. I never thought about it because, really, I do very little. Lift weights a few times a week, and do some very and I do mean very, moderate walking. But apparently it was enough to throw my cycle off. No breast tenderness, though. That's very strange for me, but I do tend to respond very strongly to exercise. I remember when I was in the Army I didn't have a cycle the entire time I was in Basic Training, and I was only 17 then.

Oh Mindi, so scary with the placenta previa. Thank Goddess they found it on the ultrasound. Geez, who would've thought they'd ban orgasms. I can imagine having such a convo with my doctor. Of course, I can imagine my silly husband saying, "Uh doc, she can still GIVE orgasms, can't she?" -lol-

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. February is not that far away, though I imagine it seems like FOREVER when you're on pelvic rest.

And yes, Keri, I'm still fearing the shots. I just keep thinking I blew my last chance with the stillbirth last year. I know that's crazy, but it just seems like it. I've really got to do some serious meditation because I know if my mind and body aren't right for this it'll never happen.


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## A Mothers Love

I had my M/C on sunday. I named our baby Jesse Lee.
We will bury Jesse in a beutiful pot (we have a huge clay pot about 4 feet tall) w/ some pretty flowers.
I'm gonna have some major dental work done & then sart TTC again in Jan. or whenever the dental work is done.


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## PrayinFor12

Mindi, just wanted to say I'm sorry. Jesse Lee is a cute name.


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## A Mothers Love

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PrayinFor12* 
Mindi, just wanted to say I'm sorry. Jesse Lee is a cute name.

I read your blog. I am sorry too!

You and your Gran are indeed strong women!!!


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## PrayinFor12

Mindi,
How cool of you to say so! Thanks.
I've been surprised the last few days since I linked my blog into MDC. I never dreamed I'd write for non-irl-people to benefit from! Comments like yours excite me.
Holly


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## A Mothers Love

I'm on doxy too. they put me on it after my M/C.
Is doxy bad?
I want to start TTC again soon. I want to ASAP...but doc said wait till after first AF...so I guess i will have to wait till Jan. before i can even start.(something to look forward to I guess)


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## PrayinFor12

Mother's Love,
I pulled out my info on doxy (I was on it before my current anti.)

The info that came with my doxy says, "This medicine has been shown to cause harm to the human fetus." That's as specific as it gets.
One thing I've noticed though: Meds that have a maybe/maybe not risk to babies have very vague warnings. Because this one actually says "has been shown to cause harm," I'd be wary.

I realize I just made your day. I'm honestly sorry about that. I know it's lame. Waiting for AF to TTC may be a great idea just because of the timing with getting off the doxy. How long are you on it for?


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## roslyn

Got the results of my bloodwork today. Apparently it's a no-go. My FSH levels are crazy high––35. That means that I don't have many eggs, and the ones I do have aren't very good. Even if I happened to get pregnant, I'd probably have another miscarriage. My heart is breaking. I don't know how much more of this I can stand.


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## PrayinFor12

Oh, Rosyln. I'm so sorry. I don't understand the FSH stuff - thanks for the explanation. That just sucks. Wishing peace for you as you think through it all. Hugs, Holly


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## Mindi22

Roslyn, I'm so sorry to hear that. I did a quick search on high FSH levels, and found this on a chinese medicine site:

Quote:

What do high FSH levels mean?
Levels of follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) are commonly used in determining fertility. FSH is produced by the pituitary gland and stimulates the ovaries to produce follicles. While normal FSH levels result in ovulation during a cycle, insufficient FSH levels due to a defect of the pituitary gland results in anovulation (no ovulation). *High levels of FSH, which is much more common, results from the pituitary gland stimulating follicles that are non-responsive. High levels of FSH may indicate premature ovarian failure. This occurs when there are very little or no eggs left and is commonly seen during menopause. High levels of FSH in women in their thirties who have a tendency to miscarry is commonly associated with extreme stress.*

It is important to note that FSH levels vary from cycle to cycle and are affected easily by the environment, stress and illness. Premature ovarian failure should not be determined with one cycle and should be monitored over 3-6 cycles before a diagnosis of ovarian failure is determined.
(Bolding is mine) Not sure if you're into alternative options, but it sounds like accupuncture could be worth a try! At the very least, perhaps monitering over several cycles would make sense before writing it off entirely, since it sounds like that's not what you really want to do, kwim?


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## Mindi22

And I'm confused... is there another Mindi here? A Mother's Love - are you a Mindi as well?

A Mother's Love and PrayinFor12 - I'm sorry for your losses - early miscarriages aren't necessarily easier than later ones, and you WERE pregnant - you DID have a child... the hopes and dreams that we start with the second we get a positive test are real and valid and worth remembering!


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## A Mothers Love

No, I'm not a Mindi








I am on Doxy till the 19th.
Roslyn, sorry to hear your news. I don't even know what to say....so sorry.
I did have lots of hopes & dreams...thank you!!!! I'm not sure all those around me understand that.....maybe....I don't know....sigh.......
I am glad we can be here for each other.


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## roslyn

I'm looking into acupuncture right now. I had it when I was pregnant with Luke and had horrible nausea. It's crazy expensive. I just spent a bundle on fertility drugs we can't use or return and I'm not sure I can afford to spend any more.

Just so many regrets. I wanted to start trying again right after we had Luke, but my dh was adamant about not having more children. Then he decides three years later that he wants to. I must admit, I'm a bit angry with him, but angrier with myself that I didn't push it. I feel even worse about the stillbirth last year. I'm just feeling really overwhelmed.


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## A Mothers Love

I just found 7 read my pharm. info on doxy. It said not to take iron w/ it & I have been cause MW told me to.







: Iron can prevent the doxy from working right.







:







:







: whatever...grrrrr!!!! i guess I will stop the iron for now, start it again when I stop the other.(what a mess)


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## lolalapcat

Welcome to our ongoing discussion, A Mothers Love. I'm sorry you lost your Jesse Lee.







Your plans for the flowers are beautiful.

Doxy also can't be taken with calcium, and is more effective when taken on an empty stomach, with lots and lots of water. Unpleasant darned medication. It is currently chewing a hole in my stomach. Aaack.

Roslyn, FSH is only one indicator. Only one. You can still get pregnant, you know that. Of course egg quality will be an issue, at your age or at mine.

It's a crap shoot. You still don't know how it will turn out.

I just checked in at Fertilichat. Never posted there, just lurked before I found this place. A couple of the 40somethings have successfully had babies, and one of the multiple m/c people has a baby. I only recall a few names, but all of them have babies. There is cause for hope.

Yeah, I can see how you would have some issues with your husband. Just like I have some with mine for being so reluctant about adoption. We might have had a child by now, you know? But we can't change it.

I am working really hard on letting go of the things I can't control, and just doing what I can. I'll let you know how that goes.

I am sorry you are suffering, Roslyn. ((((((((((HUG))))))))))) Hang in there.


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## roslyn

Keri, how do you always know exactly what I need to hear? I have a really hard time of letting go of things I know I can't do a darned thing about. I mean, I already knew that my age would be a factor. I guess it was just disappointing that the doctors won't be able to help. (Especially since I've already paid for these expensive non-returnable drugs! *grrr*) But, as you said, there's nothing I can do about those things. I just need to focus on the ovulation I have coming up. Thanks again, good friend.


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## lolalapcat

Roslyn, I am well acquainted with the panic associated with hearing new details about my reproductive system. So I'm just trying to do for you what I do for myself, you know?

All those numbers don't really mean anything, if you are still ovulating. High FSH just means your body is having to work harder to kick that egg out of the ovary, to my understanding. It's still kicking though!

Reread what Mindi posted.....work on reducing your stress levels, and that could help lower your FSH. Stress, you can control to a large extent. That might be the best thing you can do for yourself, anyway.

Must practice what I preach, I know, I know!

But really....you have made sure that polyps aren't the problem. Check. You have figured out that your blood sugar is an issue, check. You know you still ovulate, big check. You are eating well, which helps, check. You have a lot of bases covered. You are doing what you can to prepare for a healthy pregnancy.

There is still cause for hope.







Will we wind up with babies after all we've been through? We simply do not know. But there is zero chance if we don't try.


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## roslyn

I don't think I'm handling the stress very well. I've had a headache every day since last Thursday. Of course, it could be my allergies, especially since I cleaned out the attic yesterday.

My doctor didn't seem discouraged at all, and his nurse said he's got a few 'tricks up his sleeve.' From what I've read, the few REs that will treat women with high FSH, will simply wait until you have a cycle with lower numbers. If that happens, then they'll give you the drugs. Most won't treat a woman with numbers over 10-12 and mine is 35.

They did the blood draw this morning, so presumably they'll call me this afternoon with the news. I'm trying to meditate, but I think I'll be better off lifting weights. Being still is driving me insane.

Depending on what my numbers look like today, I will be going back for acupuncture. At the very least maybe he can stop these darned headaches! It's the only thing that helped with the nausea when I was pregnant with Luke, so I know it works. Thank y'all so much. Now I think I'll go pump iron! (Or maybe clean out the pantry.)


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## PrayinFor12

Just wanted to say I'm doing that "shall not stress!" thing too. I can't specifically link results to my girly parts, but I can tell a diff in other parts of my bod. Surely it helps the girl stuff too! My most effective de-stresser is my prayer journal - I love that I can rant and rave and question and still be loved - ya know? That helps.

Rosyln, funny that you mentioned cleaning the pantry. When I need to MOVE I always find something to clean. Hope you're feeling better.


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## roslyn

Well, the doctor just called. They want me to come back in on Wednesday for bloodwork and ultrasound. They think I'll be able to start meds then. Wish me luck! (Who would've thought I'd ever be looking forward to belly shots?)


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## A Mothers Love

Quote:


Originally Posted by *roslyn* 
Well, the doctor just called. They want me to come back in on Wednesday for bloodwork and ultrasound. They think I'll be able to start meds then. Wish me luck! (Who would've thought I'd ever be looking forward to belly shots?)

Wishing you GOOD, GOOD LUCK!!!


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## lolalapcat

Roslyn, good luck! Let us know how it goes. I'll be thinking of you Wednesday. Didn't Andrea say the belly shots weren't bad at all?

A prayer journal, interesting suggestion....


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## roslyn

Nope, no dice. Numbers are still too high. We're back to trying on our own. I'm kind of annoyed because we've already bought the drugs! We're DTD every other day starting Friday. Does anyone know why it would be every other day as opposed to every day? I don't suppose it matters, but I thought that was curious. I had four follicles on my left side and one on my right. My left side was hurting like all get out, so I think it'll be the dominant one this month.

Oh, I found out that I didn't have symptoms with AF this time because I've been exercising. Isn't that something? Nothing strenuous, a very leisurely walk and then lifting weights three times a week. I wouldn't have thought it would make that much difference. But I had no breast tenderness or PMS symptoms at all. Too bizarre.


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## A Mothers Love

Roslyn, my only guess as to why wait every other day..may be to build up sperm count. I will see what I can find out....if anything.

I just had my two week follow-up & my uterus is tender. she said maybe there is still stuff in there. sigh... she called an OB & now they put me on two different anti-biotics. keflex & suppro(sp?) for 10 days...sigh...sigh...oh well...what can I do. Dr. thinks I have an infection..








we will see. If the pills don't make me better not sure where we go from there. I also had another HCG done...so that will tell us something.
I go to the dentist this thurday for A LOT of dental work(poor, poor me!!!)







:but I want it all out of the way & done with, so we can start TTC again.


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## roslyn

Keflex and Cipro. Two of my least favorite antibiotics. They're really hard on the body. I had Keflex after surgery once and threw up so much I pulled some of my stitches loose. Be sure to take those on a very, very full tummy. I can't keep them down, but maybe you'll have better luck.


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## lolalapcat

Roslyn, that's pretty amazing that moderate exercise made that much of a difference in your AF symptoms. I was just reading in a magazine last night that 10 minutes of walking per day can lower diabetes risk....must convince my uncle of that.

Sperm count does go down if you dtd every day, and sperm can live for 48 hours in a toasty, fluffy environment, so there is no need.

Once again, numbers be damned. Your ovaries are working!

AML, I am so sorry. I'm not sure what's worse, the ongoing antibiotics or the dental work. Here's hoping that everything goes well, and both are out of your way, before you reach doctor overload.

And with the doxy, the trick to avoid nausea is to drink lots of water, which they tell you to do with doxy....okay, I'm kind of slow. I should have believed them.

I'm still waiting for the last round of doxy. Still having some brown bleeding, but not as much. Something tells me that my antibiotic journey is not over....


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## zonapellucida

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennifer3141* 
now - I'm hoping my last experience with pregnancy is not a loss.









This is my biggest fear right now


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## roslyn

I know Keri, that exercise thing really does work. And I just walk around the neighborhood with my son. It's certainly not aerobic because he stops to look at everything and dig up every bug in sight along the way. He picks up sticks and we sword fight. We finally got some rain so he has to jump in mud puddles and chase the birds. I do run when he runs, but there's no big exertion. And my weight workout takes maybe ten minutes. Apparently it doesn't take all that much.

That's my fear too Jennifer. I'm cleaning out my closets and attic these days, and I'm going back and forth over getting rid of the maternity clothes. Every time I look at them I get a little pain, so I just put them in a big Rubbermaid box and stuck them in the back of the closet.


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## Jennifer3141

Roslyn, I posted once a couple of weeks ago when you were sad but it apparently never made it through cyberspace. I'm so incredibly sorry for what you are going through. What's your doctor's next step??

How are you doing, Keri?

I'm still not pregnant yet, that I know of. DH has been incredibly reluctant to DTD lately. His drive is completely gone, altough he swears there's no problem. Oh well. We got one shot this cycle.


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## lolalapcat

Hi, Zona. Here's hoping that things go well for your next pregnancy.









Hi, Jennifer! It's nice to hear from you.

Maybe your DH has a lot of work related stress? Maybe it's a touch of SAD, what with the time change and all? Well, the swimmers will be high in number from not dtd too often, so that's good news....

Roslyn, you are inspiring me. I am now thinking about exercising again. My blood pressure is back in the prehypertensive stage, so I need to do something about health and stress. Sitting on my butt is apparently not the ticket!

Must refill doxy script. You know, I was reading a Ladies Home Journal--I think, I'm not sure now. And there was an article about menopause, and a little box that addressed other causes of irregular bleeding. Chlamydia infection was one of the causes. Why didn't any other RE ask about my periods? I didn't know the brown bleeding was such a red flag. They should have. Grrrr.

Take care, friends.


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## roslyn

Keri, I'm seriously beginning to wonder about doctors altogether. I guess we can't expect them to know everything, but damn! That sounds like one of the basics to me.

I'm the last person who should be inspiring anyone to exercise, but I must say I do feel better when I do it.

We've been very good about the DTD this time. I can't wait to see if anything happened.

My dh got laid off this week, this would definitely be the most inconvenient time in the world for me to be pregnant, but that seems to be when pregnancy happens. I should know the latter part of next week. Wish us luck!


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## Jennifer3141

Roslyn, you have all my hopes and prayers with you.


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## roslyn

Today I went to a bris for close friends of ours. (I know a lot of people have problems with circumcision, but I don't care to debate that issue if you don't mind.) Anyway, my dh and carried the baby. Apparently it's very good luck and everyone was looking at me as if they expected me to pop out a baby instantly. I thought it was too funny. I'm still in the 2ww. I'm not really feeling anything, which is NOT good news as I typically have very early pregnancy symptoms. But hey, I'll take any good luck I can get! -lolol-


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## A Mothers Love

Good Luck Dear Roslyn!!!


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## lolalapcat

Roslyn, I do hope that you have all the luck in the world! I am very sorry to hear your DH was laid off, that is unfortunate. Now you have something else to keep us posted on!

And the only reason I know what a bris is is because I watch Desperate Housewives. Now I can count it as educational programming!

I've been working on de-stressing, and have only been semi-successful. If only work would settle down---it is the place I am overburdened, but it should be time limited. Deep breathing, peaceful reading (instead of incessant war reading), taking time for gratitude, nice cups of herbal tea, it helps.


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## gretasmommy

Roslyn- Here's to hoping that AF never arrives! FWIW, I had gotten rid of all of my maternity clothes before this.

Keri- Perhaps this is the last of the doxy for you . . . .hopefully. As for the de-stressing, I love the idea of herbal tea, but quite frankly chocolate chip cookies work much better for me!!!!! The problem is, now I am not able to exercise any longer, I fear the cookies aren't going to be metabolized so easily!

I have been having a lot of contractions, and while I am not yet on bedrest, I can't exercise anylonger and need to cut back on my work a bit. Very difficult to do, but at 25+weeks, I need to listen well to the docs/mw's. I have weekly visits, and u/s's fairly frequently as well. On our most recent u/s (Thursday), while I told the tech I didn't want to see the gender, as soon as she put the probe on my belly the girl bits were clearly visible! Sooooo, Greta will have a little sister. In some ways it is good to know, but it feels so odd. G really wanted this to be a boy, and to name him Peter. At least she figured on her own that "Peter" wasn't going to work for a girl!

Hope those of you waiting get some good news soon!


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## Mindi22

gretasmommy - I've always liked the name Petra, the feminine version of Peter for a girl...









Things here are going well, still pregnant, so that's a big plus! I had an US last week, and I still have a complete previa, which is frustrating, but I'm trying not to lose hope yet. There is still time for things to move.

roslyn - I hope there's good news for you soon!









keri - I hope your doxy adventure is over in the not too distant future. You've been quite a trouper!


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## lolalapcat

Aaack! Why couldn't the two of you have nice normal pregnancies?!? If anyone deserved a break from stress and worry, it should have been both of you.

Andrea! Do what your doctors tell you! Tell Baby Girl to stay put!

Mindi, I am glad you are okay, I worry when I don't hear from you. No losing hope! You remain in my prayers.


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## gretasmommy

You'd think, eh?

But you know, we are fortunate to be carrying our little ones - that's what I remind myself of every day. And then I talk to this little girl and tell her to stay put until March. I hope she's listening!!!!


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## roslyn

I started spotting today, so I guess AF is imminent. The waves of depression are taking me under. I don't know why I had myself convinced that THIS TIME it would happen. I guess I expected a Christmas miracle.


----------



## p.s

Hey Roslyn








Hi Mamas - I'm just stopping in to say HI!

You all are such amazing mamas and were such a source of comfort and strength for me. Thank you.


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## lolalapcat

Hi, ps!

Roslyn--







Hang in there, dear friend. This process is so hard....

Andrea, keep talking to that baby girl!


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## A Mothers Love

I finish all my meds tomorrow!!! then I go see my MW at some point to get another HCG to make sure the #'s go down more.

Anyone know how long it takes for all those meds to be out of my system???


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## Jennifer3141

Oh Roslyn, I'm so sorry. AF show up in force now?









I wish I could do more for you.


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## A Mothers Love

Quote:


Originally Posted by *roslyn* 
I started spotting today, so I guess AF is imminent. The waves of depression are taking me under. I don't know why I had myself convinced that THIS TIME it would happen. I guess I expected a Christmas miracle.

Much love N' hugs to you!!!


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## Jennifer3141

Roslyn, you ok?

Keri?

This thread was 3 pages back. I'm worried about some of you with the holidays coming.

Love to you all!


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## A Mothers Love

*How are all of you??? This thread has been real quiet for a while.*
*Merry* Christmas!!!









*Hope all of you are doing well.





















*


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## lolalapcat

Merry belated Christmas!








: Cool, new smilies! I really am fond of our Christmas tree....

I'm okay. Feeling a beaten down by the whole process, but that's been the case for a while. The 6 months of doxy didn't clear up the infection, so ho ho ho we are on a new prescription for 3 weeks, biaxin, to see if it changes anything. Then potentially 6 months of that.

So it actually really sucks to have another quiet small subdued Christmas this year, and know that it will be this way next year too. Must push DH towards adoption, when we have time to have a big serious discussion.

But I try not to dwell on all that....we had a nice Christmas yesterday with my family, and my in laws are headed this way right now. I should be cleaning! We have multiple birthday celebrations in the next week, so it should be fun.

Jen, how are you? DH okay? How are the kiddos?

AML, weren't you waiting on some tests, and the green light to ttc?

Roslyn, how are things? How is your head?

Mindi and Andrea, how are you and your babies?


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## gretasmommy

Merry belated Christmas to you, Kerri! And to all of the mamas here!

We had a busy holiday, with many relatives here. This year we have had the remainder of our NJ family move to Maine - well, the remaining grandparents, at least. So we had a full house for Christmas, and while it was nice, it certainly was busy.

I am feeling reasonably well. Getting bigger, which has it's inherent issues for those of us older folks! I am soooooo achey, and have such a difficult time sleeping. Much, much more so than 6 years ago with G. But, I am trying not to complain, realizing that I am so blessed to have this baby living thus far. The shots are a drag, and I am limited to using only my things now, as my lower belly is, um, not easily visible to me. But again, every time I inject I remind myself that this is what keeps this baby alive . . . . and I am grateful. We had an u/s today, and got some terrific views of our little girl They even did a few minutes of 3D imaging, which was amazing. She looks nothing like G! Of course she doesn't, she's a different baby. So, abck again in 3 weeks for another, then weekly at that point. So far she is growing well, and a change in her growth would be one of the first signs that something might be awry.

Keri- I can't believe after all of that doxy . . . more abx? Really?? I am so sorry your road is such a long one. I hope this path is less of a detour, and provides you with a clear view of the home stretch.

Take care, all. Off to knit and rest a bit.


----------



## roslyn

Hello everyone. Just got back from Christmas with the in-laws. It was quite nice and the little guy had a blast with all his cousins. I'm exhausted of course, trying to catch up on laundry.

Baby-making has been put on hold as neither of us are employed at the moment. With any luck I should be back at work before the end of January. We might have to relocate so the dh can find work. There just aren't that many graphic design jobs in our small town. Especially in large format production which is his specialty. Social service jobs are fairly easy to find. I didn't want to go back to the state agency since they gave me so much grief about breast-feeding. (No door locks for pumping, EGADS!)

Great news, I finished my book. Am knee deep in rewrites, but am enjoying the process.

OH NO! Kerri, more antibiotics? I'm just flabbergasted at the notion. I was on Keflex once for a month with a sinus infection and thought I would surely die! You are such a wonder, I'm going to try to maintain that same spirit.

Andrea, it won't be much longer now. I can't wait to see pictures. Those shots must be a downer, but you'll be able to hold your little one soon. Isn't it wonderful to watch your belly grow and know that there's a life in there just waiting to get out? Fabulous!

I thought I would really be bummed by other mommies, but it doesn't bother me at all. My SIL has three boys and I thought I'd be jealous, but I didn't feel that way at all. Apparently I have more character than I thought! -lol-

BTW, I know it's illegal to sell fertility drugs. Does anyone know of a program I could donate them to? It's just a shame for them to go to waste, they cost almost $4000 and I thought maybe I could give them to someone who is in need. If y'all know of anything like that, let me know. They're just sitting in my fridge mocking me. I almost threw them out this morning, and that would be a shame.


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## A Mothers Love

*We are TTC now. My cycle is wacky...so I'm not real sure what to report. I think I might be pregnant....I think I just had implantation spotting this morning, but AF is not due till 1-09-08....so it will be a little bit before I know for sure. If we are not, then we will just try again. I tried charting this time....but I think it just makes me crazy!!! Next cycle I will just let things happen naturally... the charting thing is insane for me.*


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## lolalapcat

Andrea, hang in there! That is neat that you already know what your new baby looks like. Amazing.

Roslyn, congrats on completing your book! I do hope things fall into place, employment wise. How about throwing that big wrench into your plans to have another baby, huh? Hang in there, and keep us posted.

AML, the first couple of months I charted I thought 'no way will I keep this up'. But it has become habit and it's nice knowing what is going on with my body. It's amazing what you learn by simply paying attention.

The worst side effect of the biaxin is the metallic taste in the mouth. Weird. It is not nearly as tough on me as the stupid old doxy. My period should start today, 5 more days on biaxin, then check in with the doctor about any brown bleeding. I just want something to work. What if this can't be fixed, you know?

One day at a time, for all of us.

Mindi? You okay? Jen, are you buried under snow? How are things?


----------



## A Mothers Love

*Ok, I'm a dork. It was not implantation. I spotted for 7 days & AF came this morning. Went to DR. & he said I have sinus/ear infection. put me on zithromax for 5 days. I "still" have to go get HCG done . I just have been so dizzy, fell like total [email protected] My cycle is still so wacky. the DR. I went to (walk in clinic) said maybe I was starting menopause, cause of my spotting. I about had a fit. I said I just had a M/C a while back ago. He just smiles and says "well that's it Lucy" I don't know anything anymore. Now I need to call my mom & ask when she started menopause I guess







*


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## Jennifer3141

Hi everyone!

Roslyn, I smiled while reading your post. I lit a soul peace candle for you one night a few weeks ago and prayed your heart wouldn't ache so much.

Keri, I'm here. I just got done with a 40 day cycle in which I knew I wasn't pregnant so the waiting for AF was no big deal. I'm in "winter mode" up here - just quietly examining myself 0 mainly because there's nothing else to do!









I cannot believe you need more ABX!!! How are you doing?


----------



## A Mothers Love

I am having an u/s on tues. check for ovarian cyst or any retained tissue.
HCG is down to 2
CBC came back good. no infections.
I have been bleeding since 12-29-07...she thinks maybe I am not "o"ing
I have sharp pains that feel like "O"ing they started on tues. night.
She suggested BCP's to regulate my cycle again. I said I would think about it. We will see what u/s shows first & go from there. I guess BCP's don't sound so bad. it would only be for a couple of months, but if I can I want to avoid adding anything to my body.
so, now I wait for another week to her from M/W w/ u/s results.


----------



## lolalapcat

Hi all!

I've been very very busy, and will be getting busier with the upcoming week.







: Dad will be out of town for business, so I have to pick up a lot of the slack caring for Mom. And Aunt Control Freak will be there, heaven help me!

The biaxin seemed to make a difference in the tell tale brown bleeding, so my doctor switched me to Flagyl. I am confused. I hope he knows what he is doing.

I would take doxy over flagyl. Flagyl makes me feel like I have been doing shots of tequila. Not liking the dizzy thing. What are the antibiotics doing in my brain, anyhow? Scary. Makes me wonder if it would be effective at treating Lyme disease....

AML, you are not a dork! It can take a really long time for a body to heal after a miscarriage. Even having been through three, I wouldn't presume to predict how long it might take for your system to get back to normal.

Jen, 40 days? What in the world?

Wouldn't we all like to just be normal again?

Today is the one year anniversary of my last due date. I haven't been anticipating this date, but it's my MIL's birthday, so I don't have a choice but to remember it. Yuck.

Roslyn, I hope good things are happening on the job front.

Andrea, Mindi---hope things are progressing normally. My fingers are crossed.

AML, let us know what your u/s reveals. Take care.


----------



## Mindi22

Hi everyone,
It's been awhile, but I wanted to post a little update about life here! I'm still pregnant, and I also still have a complete previa. I'm scheduled for a c-section on Monday (Holy CRAP!!!), and I just finished my last day of work yesterday. I can't quite believe that it's all coming so quickly!

I will keep you posted about how the section goes, but I will likely be away from the boards most of next week. The hospital doesn't have wireless internet access (how will I survive???) and I'm not sure about dial up access....

I will talk to you all soon, even though I've been quiet on this thread, you've all been in my thoughts!

Blessings,
Mindi


----------



## A Mothers Love

Mindi, you will soon have a sweet bundle!!!! I will be watching for your update and announcement.....Yay!!!!

ME:....my M/W said U/S showed ovarian cyst(but I already knew that....the tech told me) I'm just suppose to see MW again in 6 weeks if I still have pain, and/or to check size of cyst again.

*Good Luck Mindi, & I wish you great Blessings with your new baby.*


----------



## lolalapcat

Mindi!!! It is so good to hear from you. Hooray, Baby has stayed in place this long!

I'll be thinking of you and sending up prayers....let us know the details when you are up to it!

AML, I hope the cyst goes away....one of my best friends had an ovarian cyst throughout her pregnancy, and they removed it a few weeks after she gave birth. Her ovary is intact, and she hasn't had any further issues. It was just a blip on the radar.

Keep us posted!

Nothing new here. I'm on antibiotics, and not ttc. Who would have guessed?


----------



## gretasmommy

Mindi-
Wishing you a happy baby birthday on Monday!!!!! I am so, so happy your bundle is doing well, though sorry about the complete previa. Thank goodness for ultrasounds, eh?

Keri-
Is the new abx regimen providing better results? I know you basically spotted through most of the doxy. I hope this gets easier for you! It just seems so crazy, all you have to do, you know? Hang in there . . that light at the end of the tunnel must be getting closer . . . it just has to be! Due dates are so hard. Still are for me as well.

AML- Hope your follow up u/s brings better news and your cyst has resolved.

I ams till working on flipping this baby - she's a transverse/breech, with her head up under my left ribcage, spine curved over toward the right, bum just above my right hip, and occasionally feet stretched downward. I have an appt scheduled with an anesthesiologist-turned-alternative medicine caregiver who practices accupuncture and moxibustion. He's on vacation for 2 weeks, though, so i see him the second week in February, at 35.5 weeks, if she hasn't turned by that point. I will try more pelvic tilts and versions each day until then. We have weekly u/s's , which sure does take the guess work out of this! This girl sure is giving me some work to do . . .


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## Jennifer3141

Mindi, you've got your baby!! I'm so hapy for you and I hope you're lolling around in bed with the baby and falling in love with each other.

I'm CD 25 and just waiting for AF to start. It's odd how much of your life can revolve around about 4 teaspoons of blood.

Keri, I'm shocked - just shocked that you're not TTCing right now (insert saracasm here). Darn woman, we need to just take your uterus out and give it a bath in TTO.


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## Jennifer3141

Mindi, you've got your baby!! I'm so hapy for you and I hope you're lolling around in bed with the baby and falling in love with each other.

I'm CD 25 and just waiting for AF to start. It's odd how much of your life can revolve around about 4 teaspoons of blood.

Keri, I'm shocked - just shocked that you're not TTCing right now (insert saracasm here). Darn woman, we need to just take your uterus out and give it a bath in TTO.


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## Mindi22

Sorry about the lack of update. I posted this in the Feb DDC, but realized that I forgot to let you all know as well. I will keep you notified as things change, and I hope that there is improvement to note very soon.

Well, I had my section on Monday - so January 28th @ 12.48 pm, Alexander (Xander) Zachary entered the world. The section went okay (although I can't imagine why some women prefer it - crazy!), but baby is in NICU now because of respiratory distress. I got to hold him late Monday night (after finally being allowed to move after the spinal) for a little while, but even later that night, we were woken up with the news that they were transferring him down to a hospital with a NICU. Of course, my insurance didn't approve me being transferred along with my son. So, I was discharged just over a day after my section so I could stay in the same building as my son.

I'm uncomfortable where the incision is, and I'm hormonal and tired and worried and stressed. But Xander is beautiful, and I hope that I will soon be able to hold him in my arms and have him where he belongs at home with us.

Anyone with any good healing vibes, please send them his way.


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## lolalapcat

Mindi, congratulations! Prayers continue, and I will add whatever healing vibes I can find. Do keep us posted.

Welcome, Alexander Zachary! Your arrival gives us some healing and hope, and no small amount of joy on behalf of your parents! Heal fast, little baby!

Andrea, any luck in relocating your little girl?

Jen, thanks for the sarcasm! I'm getting pretty droll about the whole thing. 4 more days in this 3 week run on Flagyl, and then a few more days before I will be at the point to assess symtoms. There has got to be a better way!

Roslyn, are you still here?


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## roslyn

This will probably be my last post here. We're done with trying to conceive again. We've simply run out of time. I'll be 44 in September and it doesn't look as though either of us will be finding jobs anytime soon. Of course, this has brought all the grief back over my loss and I'm really struggling with that. I've been crying a lot, even though I know that's not particularly productive. We're more fortunate than most--we have a beautiful son who astounds us on a daily basis. I feel selfish to want more, but time simply wasn't on our side.

I want to thank all of you, especially Keri for being there for me through these dark days. Congratulations Mindi, I'm sure you'll have darling Xander in your arms soon (if not already.)

Andrea I hope your little one will turn soon. Again, congratulations and Goddess bless. Roslyn


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## Mindi22

Roslyn - I'm sorry - I can hear the pain in your post. I hope that you find peace with your decision and that you find other ways to fill the emptiness. I don't think it's selfish to want more when you're in love with the one you have- I totally get that! Don't be a total stranger, though - it's nice to have updates about your life beyond just the reproductive aspect!

I started a CarePage for Xander, if you're interested in updates, feel free to subscribe to the page. Basically, it allows me to post updates in one spot rather than having to repeat them over and over again in many different places. If that link doesn't work, you can search for the Care Page under the name "XanderFried" (no spaces).

Andrea - how's baby's position?

Keri - how's the latest round of antibiotics? I'm sorry your body has had to go through all of this!


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## lolalapcat

Roslyn.









I wish it wasn't this way.

Crying certainly isn't a waste, it keeps all of that hurt from being bottled up inside. Crying is exactly what you should do when a dream slips out of reach, whether that is each of the babies you lost or the hope of adding to your family.

You know how to find us, find me...anytime you need to talk, we are here.

Mindi, your Xander is a sweet little guy! I am so pleased to be able to read as he grows stronger. Thank you for the link.

Antibiotic #3, Month 8: still brown bleeding. Infection is not clearing. I don't know how much more of this I will do. If it isn't working, it isn't working. It seems to be an act of futility and self torture at this point. And I'm actually okay with quitting this process. The reality has been gradually beaten into me. Eh. Whatever.


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## Mindi22

Hi everyone! I had to revive the thread to see how you all are?

Andrea - baby news would be welcome!

Xander is doing much better, can't believe he'll be four months in a few days. He's been a challenge in so many ways, but I am completely in love!

News, anyone?


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