# What do you think when someone says their child is "high needs"?



## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

I'm really curious what people actually think when they hear this. I won't elaborate more until you guys have a chance to vote/respond.


----------



## La Limena (Apr 16, 2008)

Since you asked to spare the sugar-coating, I think parents these days are over-eager for labels. If their child doesn't have a bona fide medical or psychological issue, then they will opt for something generic as "high needs" or "special needs". I think there is a munchausen-by-proxy-like need for sympathy and praise.

I was thinking about this yesterday because I ran across a thread somewhere around here about a child with an oral fixation. I was curious because my almost 7 y/o chews on his legos, playmobils, and erasers. No biggie. I tell him to cut it out. Well, apparently there is a label bandwagon to jump on for that too. If I was one of those moms I would latch onto that and say woe is me, my son has sensory processing issues, feel sorry for me and then pat me on the back for doing such a great job coping with my special high needs child. I think it is getting kind of ridiculous, and feel sorry for all the kids whose parents use their issues to try to feel better about themselves.

Honestly, some kids can just be fussy, picky, bratty, or weird. Work through it.


----------



## scottishmommy (Nov 30, 2009)

I believe people when they say they have a high needs baby. If they feel overwhelmed they probably are and need support. Everyone has different thresholds for stress. Some people have really fussy babies and don't seem bothered by it, others have relatively easy babies but feel totally drained. I was lucky and got the worlds easiest baby.....that is until she learned to walk!


----------



## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

I think, I prefer "spirited child."


----------



## Ldavis24 (Feb 19, 2009)

I don't want to hurt feelings but yeah I voted that some kids are obviously high needs but the term is super over-used. I think it really takes away from the high needs kiddos and their parents as well. If everyone is throwing that term around (I have heard it more than once IRL to a kid who was cranky because a toy was taken away or something) then the people with the kids who really do need a little extra help (or the parents too) just kinda fall by the wayside.

ETA: Crunchy Mommy, spill the beans!


----------



## pianojazzgirl (Apr 6, 2006)

I'm not sure exactly how to answer this question. I think I have responded differently based on the situation. I've met people who've complained about how "high needs" their baby is and I admit to having been flabbergasted and thought "you haven't seen high needs till you've spent a day with my kid".... basically that their baby seemed insanely "easy" compared to mine. But I've also met babies who seemed to be even more work than mine, but who's parents just took it all in stride. I think scottishmommy is right that everyone's stress threshold is different. Perhaps there is not exactly an objective scale of "high-neededness", but rather when you hear a parent say their kid is "high needs" they really mean that they are feeling stressed out/overwhelmed with parenting that child. Or maybe that's not quite right... I do think there are some babes out there who are relatively "easy" and some who are relatively "high-needs" (objectively speaking), but how a parent might "rate" them on that "scale" is subjective. The important thing is that if a mama (or papa) is feeling overwhelmed and reaches out for help we take them at face value, no matter how "easy" their kid might look from the outside.


----------



## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ldavis24*
> 
> I don't want to hurt feelings but yeah I voted that some kids are obviously high needs but the term is super over-used. I think it really takes away from the high needs kiddos and their parents as well. If everyone is throwing that term around (I have heard it more than once IRL to a kid who was cranky because a toy was taken away or something) then the people with the kids who really do need a little extra help (or the parents too) just kinda fall by the wayside.


Yeah that. I do believe there are high needs kids, but I don't think that every kid labeled that actually is high needs.


----------



## rubidoux (Aug 22, 2003)

Sometimes (and this probably depends on who it is I'm talking to) I wonder if the child is completely normal in terms of what sort of supervision/discipline/attention they need, but the parent has a weird idea of what a kid should be. But I have also had several of the thoughts you've listed, again probably depending on the parent and maybe the child, too.


----------



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I voted somewhat contradictory answers. "I feel for you, so is mine" and " all babies are high needs." my feelings are probably even more contradictory than that. Yeah some babies are higher needs than others, but really all (or most) babies are pretty high needs. It's legit but probably overused too.


----------



## earthmama369 (Jul 29, 2005)

Depending on the child/parent in question, I alternate between having sympathy for them and wanting to lend them one of my darlings for a day so they can see what high needs is all about. Sometimes I span the bridge and feel both! *lol* Having two kids who, in completely different ways, have garnered comments from friends and acquaintances along the lines of "Wow, better you than me," I can see how high needs can come to play in a number of different ways and I'm sure I don't have the corner on that market.


----------



## Snowflake777 (Jan 6, 2011)

I voted "That must be so tough!". I had a fairly "easy" baby and feel that for the most part, it was the luck of the draw. I absolutely believe that some babies are naturally higher maintenance than others.

In some cases, I do think parents may incorrectly perceive their baby as high needs because they have unrealistic expectations. I would have thought my baby was high needs too if I had tried to force her into an unnatural eating/sleeping schedule, then had to deal with the fall-out from that.


----------



## earthmama369 (Jul 29, 2005)

I think it depends on the parent-child combo as well, and on the intensity of a particular need. (Can you tell I'm one of those SPD mamas coming out of the woodwork to comment on your post?) 

One of my kiddos is diagnosed with SPD and if he were the son of the guy down the street with nigh-on infinite energy who loves to do hands-on projects all the time, he'd probably never have been diagnosed. On the flipside, if he were the son of my parents instead of their grandson, he'd probably have been shipped off to military academy by the age of 2. Being my son, he's had a diagnosis and extra supports and resources since he was a toddler -- because hey, every kid needs to eat and sleep some time -- but he's also growing up knowing that people come with all kinds of quirks and SPD is just another kind of quirk, like his dad's inability to shut his brain off at night leading to random web domain purchases and grand project ideas at 3am, and his mom's need to walk with canes like a little old lady. (Actually, my grandmothers are both little old ladies at 90 and they can beat me down the driveway and back any day.)

It does depend on the personality combo. I'm sure there are some parents who wouldn't have blinked an eye at his needs and others who would have had him medicated. Likewise with my daughter's intense (there's that word again!!) need for social time and constant talking, or the inability to ever put her down as an infant. Depends on your own quirks and what is deal-able to you.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *La Limena*
> 
> Since you asked to spare the sugar-coating, I think parents these days are over-eager for labels. If their child doesn't have a bona fide medical or psychological issue, then they will opt for something generic as "high needs" or "special needs". I think there is a munchausen-by-proxy-like need for sympathy and praise.
> 
> ...


----------



## new2this (Feb 11, 2010)

I feel for a person who is dealing with true high needs. That fits a medical description. Babies I don't think are high needs unless its something obvious medically. Because honestly all babies are high needs in some extent since they do depend on us 100%. I also think a lot of the parents create their own problems and might turn the eye and rather then deal with an issue its easier to say oh well they are high needs or special. And people see things they want to see from reading books, talking to others and so on.

I truly do feel for the ones that are honest and real about it. But I have a harder time believing people because it is so overly used now a days.


----------



## reezley (May 27, 2006)

I voted the "some are but it's an overused label" one. And I considered my ds1 to be high-maintenance as a baby. I prefer that term over high-needs - I see high-needs as requiring unusual circumstances or special needs. Because yes, if I tried to do anything other than hold him and be engaged with him, and walking him where he wanted to go or nurse him as soon as he needed, or attempted to walk away when he was sleeping, then he would often cry and be very upset. BUT, he was totally consolable and wonderful and enjoyable, if I just dropped my expectation to do anything other than take care of him.  So, in that way, he was a pretty normal baby. If his needs were harder for me to meet, I would have called him "high-needs".

DS2, by the way, was easy-goingas a baby. So I know my ds1 was much higher up on the needy spectrum.


----------



## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

I think the number of true 'high need' kids is pretty small. A lot of high need babies seem to stop crying so much when they are switched to a hypoallergenic formula or allergen free diet. A lot of high need toddlers magically calm down when they are switched to a decent bedtime/schedule. Also consequences for behavior are important, imo.

Sometimes you see 'high need' children go on to have other diagnoses (SPD,ASD). That makes sense, I think.

So I guess I'll be rude and say that when I read a post about a high needs/spirited 6 year old who is up until midnight and likes to do things like paint the couch I







and think that child would be a lot less 'high needs' with some logical rules in place.


----------



## Peony (Nov 27, 2003)

I go back and forth. My DD1 was HN even at 8 now she still is so draining compared to her younger siblings. As she got older though, multiple disorders showed themselves but back when she was a never sleeping, screaming all day long until age 1 child, who didn't not sleep a single second on top of me until she was 3, high needs was the only thing I could call her. Possessed monster child just didn't sound that great.







But then I run into parents all the time who use the term because their baby does not take a 3 hour nap or won't sit in a bouncy seat most of the day or because the toddler is well, a 2 year who does have feelings and emotions of their own. I consider those parents maybe people who have unrealistic expectations of what children do. And then I get the parents who had an insanely easy first baby, think all children are like that, the rest of us just didn't do x, y, and z with our children and then get another child who is more normal and struggle to cope. And honestly, there are parents who just struggle being parents, not to say that all of us don't on some days, but some struggle with the basic parenting tasks more so then others. I run various things for parents around my town so I spend a lot of time talking to moms, and hear/see all sorts of things.


----------



## 4myfinn (Dec 29, 2009)

I think the term is overused, but there definitely is such a thing as a high-needs child. DS had severe reflux as an infant, and now as a toddler has many digestive issues, including several bad allergies. There's a long list of things we can't eat around here. He is a terrible sleeper because of his medical issues, and is often up in the middle of the night screaming if he eats something he shouldn't have had. He is 19 mo and has never STTN- in fact he never sleep more than a few hours at a time. I definitely consider him high-needs.

However, I've had several people tell me their child is high-needs just because he/she is spirited. My son is also very spirited (curious, silly, stubborn, likes to run everywhere and explore/climb everything), but I don't consider that to be part of his "high-needs" label. A friend at a playgroup yesterday was lamenting about her "high-needs" daughter who STTN, can eat anything, and has not a single medical issue to speak of- she simply is a spirited toddler. I felt like that was definitely a misuse of the term.


----------



## Lynn08 (Dec 2, 2008)

I chose the first option. Because my first was a high needs baby. She didn't fit just 1 or 2 of the criteria. She fit all 12 (the only exception was that she slept really well at night - just not during the day). And when I would talk to people about her, it wasn't so others would feel sorry for me; it was to see if anyone had else who was going/had gone thru something similar had any advice. Unfortunately, the only other person I found was also a new mother looking for answers, so it usually turned into a b&^$% fest because we were the only one who understood what the other was feeling! Everyone else seemed to have "perfect" babies and I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong. DD1 has since grown into an intelligent, rambunctious, active, loving, amazingly spirited child, but those first 15ish months were hard. I was stressed all the time because I felt like a failure. What was I doing so wrong that my kid screamed all the time? If I were a better mother, she would be happy. Etc, etc.

Now dd2 is almost 3 months old and while she's not as easy a baby as I had hoped to have, she is by no means "high needs". I know the difference in my own family but who I am I to judge someone else's assessment of their family? If another parent says that their lo is high needs, I can only offer a shoulder to cry on, to let them know that they aren't alone, that it isn't their fault, and that it will get better.


----------



## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

I had a high needs child (my first) and I picked the first option. Sure, some people might over use the term. Whatevs. I'm not judge and jury on that stuff.


----------



## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *La Limena*
> 
> Since you asked to spare the sugar-coating, I think parents these days are over-eager for labels. If their child doesn't have a bona fide medical or psychological issue, then they will opt for something generic as "high needs" or "special needs". I think there is a munchausen-by-proxy-like need for sympathy and praise.


I agree. Everyone wants a label. It's like a fashion statement. You rarely hear "eh.. he's just regular". Everybody has it worse than the last parent.

It's sad because there are kids who truly HAVE issues, and I never believe it til I actually experience that child for a long time. Otherwise, I just figure the parent wants to draw attention, or have an excuse for the behavior. Most babies are fussy, not really "high needs", or toddlers are Busy.. not "high needs". Three year olds are opinionated, it's not "high needs. Some kids are easily frustrated, or have a low tolerance for something. It's not "high needs".

I really get annoyed with the word "spirited". I hate that label.


----------



## JennyKochhar (Apr 3, 2011)

As the parent of a now 3 year old who needed constant movement to until she learned to walk (and afterwords provided it for herself- even now she is in constant motion), cried constantly, was uber sensitive to others' emotions/moods, refuses to wear anything that is "not soft"...yada yada yada....Yep, I believe in the high needs/ spirited child. I don't feel it's a diagnosis, though, as if something is wrong with her. I just think she's a lot like her mom- very passionate, opinionated, energetic, sensitive, and persistent. I use the "label" as a way to find help in guiding her to use those qualities positively, to get help from others whose kids have similar qualities, and yes, occasionally to get sympathy when she has utterly worn me out. Her brother is a much easier kids to parent, so I know it's not just my incompetence.

And I had to laugh at the choice, "My kids are easy because I practice AP. " HA!!!! AP is NOT a recipe for an easy kid. In fact, my choice to practice Attachment Parenting with my kids probably made parenting my "high needs" girl just that much more difficult when she was small. I mean, if I'd let her cry it out about her myriad extra needs, she may have given up on them and my life might have been simpler. But I value her strength and determination, and I think all that extra effort to value her needs however inconvenient they were/are is totally worth it to let her maintain that extra "verve" that will serve her so well.

So, maybe I wanted to see a choice that said, "congratulations! your child has a MASSIVE amount of potential!"


----------



## AutumnAir (Jun 10, 2008)

I chose "I feel for you - so is mine" and, contradictorily, "There are HN kids but the term is over-used".

I do think that there are very definitely HN kids, who are a lot more work than 'normal' kids. I just so happen to have 2 of them. And this is not just my subjective opinion - just about everyone we encounter comments on how much hard work my kids are. Their grandparents love to see them, but need to recuperate afterwards, and that's just from helping me out!

So, my first reaction is sympathy - I totally understand where another parent of a HN kid is coming from. But I have also encountered the trend of over-using the term to describe kids who have pretty much any kind of needs that aren't totally convenient for the parent - which is a different kettle of fish IMO.


----------



## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

OP here -- wow that is a lot of responses in such a short time lol!!!

Well I guess what spawned this post is a reaction I had to someone talking about their 'high-needs' kid. She went on to describe him a bit and all I could think was, that sounds like a normal kid... But my perception of normal is probably very warped!! So I really don't know, but I guess I feel a bit like the term is being over-used. And that bugs me because I use the term to describe DS (only when I need to succinctly give context for whatever issue I'm talking about) but now I think because everyone uses it even to describe seemingly 'normal' kids that they probably think I'm being overly dramatic or something or not fully understand the very context I'm trying to provide.

I spent DS's first months (until I found MDC, basically) wondering what the heck was wrong with my kid because he was SOOOO different than any other kid I've seen or heard of. Then I stumbled across the term 'high needs' and I thought, FINALLY a term that accurately describes DS. I didn't (still don't) know what was/is wrong with him, but it did help a bit to have a term to describe what I experience and I have a lot of mixed feelings about its overuse and a lot of self-blame and lack of confidence surrounding the whole thing. Even our doctor won't take me seriously (well, we are going to switch docs since he doesn't seem to take ANYTHING seriously, but that's a whole 'nother story!!)

Then there is the issue of how much I've learned in 2 short years of parenting... How very different kids can be... how many stages they go through & how quickly things can change... how you can pat yourself on the back for how your kid loves vegetables because of the varied diet you provide, and the very next day they'll start snubbing anything green... How the kid you see out & about may be very different from the kid you'd see if you spent a day in his home... I don't know, I'm rambling and probably making little sense...

Anyway... so I guess I was just really curious how others react when *I* use this term... And I think I will have to stop using it, seeing as it sounds like it really doesn't make my posts or real-life conversations any clearer and may not even be believed.


----------



## prothyraia (Feb 12, 2007)

I would have thought "all babies are high needs" during the time between when I was pregnant with my first until a little after my second child was born. I read the descriptions of "high needs" babies and thought that it just sounded like what all babies are like.

After having a second baby, and I can say with confidence that my older son was in fact "high needs". I honestly don't like that phrasing and am more likely to refer to his infant self as "intense", but having been exposed to two such drastically different personalities now I totally get it.

My older son had no medical issues, he just wanted things very specifically and very strongly and wouldn't quit until he got them. Something like....hey, I'm two months old and I want to be held at a 30 degree angle facing south by southwest so I can stare at that spec on the wall, and I'm going to scream my head off until you figure that out. And at every developmental milestone he hit (holding his head up, moving around, etc. etc.) he became more and more easygoing because he could just turn his own #$%! head and look without needing our help. And he's a very mellow and independent four year old now.


----------



## StoriesInTheSoil (May 8, 2008)

DS was a high-needs baby that was soothable. DD is a high-needs baby that isn't soothable. My mom calls DD "colicky" but I prefer "high needs" because I think it's nicer somehow.

I don't think it's a "label" that people use to gain sympathy, I think that some people have very overwhelming children. I was a profoundly gifted child and I know I was unbelievably high needs and draining to my parents. People tend to feel drained by my hyperactivity to this day.

I also think it's ridiculous how many people like to say "if you just did such-and-such..." because there's no one-size-fits-all for kids. Some might say I don't discipline well (okay, I'm not the very best at it...) but I know what will and won't work for my kid.

I am also of the opinion that mothers know their children and their children's needs best.


----------



## MJB (Nov 28, 2009)

I voted "Some kids are high needs but the term seems to be really over-used/incorrectly used." *and* "The parent(s) just need to ____ (set some boundaries and limits, try a routine or schedule, etc.)" in some cases, if I see the complaining parents under-parenting their kids or having unreasonable expectations.

My SIL doesn't have kids but babysat recently and was like, "OMG, this baby was so demanding! He wanted to be held or worn in the carrier the whole time I was watching him!" She really thought this baby was unusually needy but that's pretty standard for babies.


----------



## marinak1977 (Feb 24, 2009)

I chose "That must be so tough"
I have a relatively easy baby (now toddler) /probably made easier because cosleeping works for me (so no sleep deprived mama)
I do feel sad when someone is overwhelmed with their kid and needs support. I usually do not feel like I have enough information to decide whether their kid is "truly high needs".


----------



## Viriditas (Aug 30, 2004)

Wow. I find this post (and the later one agreeing with it) extremely offensive. I used the term "high needs" as well as "spirited" frequently for the first 4 years of my son's life, before we found out he has ASD. Not once was I angling for sympathy or praise, or using his issues to feel better about myself. DH and I were both at a loss to understand the way our child's mind worked, and why normal parenting wasn't "working." We had to deal with raised eyebrows, dirty looks, unsolicited advice, and veiled and outright accusations of bad parenting on a regular basis. In using these terms I was simply trying to give people some indication that I WAS trying and I WAS parenting, and that, for some reason, my child did not respond to his parents, peers, or environment with quite the ease that most children seemed to.

It really makes me frustrated and sad to see so many people who think they have another parent's situation figured out just by half an hour of observation, or who can just dismiss another parent's estimation of their child's needs because they don't think it's valid. For years, my SIL thought I was starving my child and gave me loads of unsolicited advice and judgement because at their house and when we went out to restaurants, he ate very little, and the little he did eat was pretty much devoid of nutrients. What she didn't realize was that he has major sensory issues when it comes to food (am I being a spoiled attention whore by saying that?), not to mention sensory overload in unfamiliar or noisy environments that made it hard for him to sit still and eat. We let him eat nothing but french fries or plain noodles when we went out, but that was always prefaced or followed by something like beans or tofu and broccoli at home. And that's only one small example.

I didn't have an official, "bona-fide" label to explain away what people considered to be unacceptable behavior in my child, but DH and I knew that this wasn't due to shoddy parenting, and it really hurt to be constantly accused of being bad parents who were creating a spoiled, anti-social monster. It's easier now, because people hear "autism" and their expectations for DS's behavior go way down. They are much more understanding (or at least less ready to pass hasty judgement). But I know that there are PLENTY of kids who don't quite warrant an ASD or other diagnosis, but who are still more "high-needs" or "spirited" than typically-developing children. You can't just dismiss them all as regular kids who need to be told to "knock it off" or who have needy, lazy, selfish parents who make up special needs for attention. This assumption is unkind and ignorant and it makes my stomach turn.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *La Limena*
> 
> Since you asked to spare the sugar-coating, I think parents these days are over-eager for labels. If their child doesn't have a bona fide medical or psychological issue, then they will opt for something generic as "high needs" or "special needs". I think there is a munchausen-by-proxy-like need for sympathy and praise.
> 
> ...


----------



## SubliminalDarkness (Sep 9, 2009)

I say I'm sympathetic. My DS2 was "high needs" and I did use the term when it came to explaining things. I did all the "right" things. He was breastfed on demand, coslept, was worn, so on and so forth. I could NOT put him down. I couldn't put him in a carrier and sit down, I had to move constantly. He woke every 45 minutes all night long for his first 14 months of life(then we night-weaned). He needed constant attention and care. Yes, I know all babies need constant attention and care. But he wasn't "normal." No swing, bouncy seat, high chair, bouncer, jumparoo, activity mat, anything. And not even other people. He needed me to do a song and dance for him 24/7. He didn't nap. He didn't have breaks between nursing sessions. It was unending.

I wasn't making it up. He's my second child. My first was not this way. I baby-sat and nannied a lot of babies/children. He wasn't like any of them.


----------



## Wild Lupine (Jul 22, 2009)

I voted 'That's so tough. I figure when someone tells me that, they're basically saying they are tired, stressed and overwhelmed. Maybe their child is presenting strong needs compared to the average child, maybe they're not doesn't, but it's not for me to judge. I'm not their pediatrician or therapist so the facts of the situation don't really concern me. When I'm feeling stressed, all I want is sympathy and support, so that's what I try to give.


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MJB*
> 
> I voted "Some kids are high needs but the term seems to be really over-used/incorrectly used." *and* "The parent(s) just need to ____ (set some boundaries and limits, try a routine or schedule, etc.)" in some cases, if I see the complaining parents under-parenting their kids or having unreasonable expectations.


Sometimes, the "under-parenting" is a result of the behaviour, not a cause. Parents can burn out and be overwhelmed, just like anyone else.

OP: I think "high needs" is over used, but if I hear someone describe their child as high needs, I don't really think anything. I'm pretty sure they have a better picture of what life with that child is like than I do. DD1 was high needs (or "colicky", I guess) as a baby, but hasn't been so much since she was about two or two and a half. DS2 is the one that's causing me to fall into this charming category:

Quote:


> I think parents these days are over-eager for labels. If their child doesn't have a bona fide medical or psychological issue, then they will opt for something generic as "high needs" or "special needs". I think there is a munchausen-by-proxy-like need for sympathy and praise.


And, ds2 was such a laid back infant that my mantra in those days was "I'm cheating - this is too easy to be parenting!". I hear people say "no babies are easy" and while I know what they mean, I don't agree. DS2 was easy...he slept well, he nursed well, and he was just very content. Then, he went the other way from his sister, and now he's "high needs" and I'm looking for a label/diagnosis...not because I'm "over-eager" for such...but because I need help, and I need to know what he needs, and I don't have a clue. Nothing gets through to this kid, and I can't figure out what might work, without knowing what's going on in his strange, sweet, lovable, infuriating, little mind.

Whether he fits all the criteria or not, I don't feel bad saying he's high needs. And, as I have three other children, all of whom are energetic, intelligent, rambunctious, active, volatile (not ds1, so much, but dd1 is very much so, and dd2 is somewhat), etc. and have had people comment on the energy level of all of them, and have had people say "I don't think I could handle him/her" about all of them, and don't consider any of them to be high needs, I think the idea that I am - or other parents like me are - "over-eager for labels" is really obnoxious and offensive. Kids are kids, and most of them are difficult, at least sometimes and to some degree. But, there are kids who are on a whole other level, and it's not always obvious to outside eyes.


----------



## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

If they co-sleep, baby wear, and breastfeed, I assume they have a high needs infant. If they don't do all three things, I tend to assume that they'd have an easier time of things if they could do all three, but still recognize that being unhappy in a sling and hating to bed share can be part of being a high needs infant.

What I don't do is say anything like "oh yes yes, they all cry they're all fussy" or other BS that people get from IRL folks.

Note: My dd was NOT high needs. I basically didn't try putting her down for her first few months, but I had the option to. I also was able to sit. Which are luxuries for high needs mamas.


----------



## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

If it were possible to diagnose in babies, I suspect most high needs babies would get diagnosed with SPD. It's just that babies develop soooo fast that by the time they could get that diagnosis, most of them have more fully developed nervous systems and aren't being completely overwhelmed by the sensation of air on their skin and the sound of their own breathing.

No, that's not it, because there are infants with clear SPD who get diagnosed as such.

Is there anything that just presents as overwhelming sensory input, reliance on a single person as a comfort source, and can come at varying points between birth and around age 5?


----------



## Cyllya (Jun 10, 2009)

When I hear the term "high needs," I, um... think it refers to a baby who has high needs. I hadn't really occurred to me to question whether or not someone should be using the term. Most of the instances I hear it in doesn't sound like they could possibly be looking for pity/sympathy/whatever because they're telling a story in past tense ("My baby was high-needs, and...").


----------



## joensally (Jun 19, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *La Limena*
> 
> Since you asked to spare the sugar-coating, I think parents these days are over-eager for labels. If their child doesn't have a bona fide medical or psychological issue, then they will opt for something generic as "high needs" or "special needs". I think there is a munchausen-by-proxy-like need for sympathy and praise.


Dude.

How do you know the child doesn't have a "bona fide" issue? Are you aware that many diagnoses are not made until a child is a bit older, but that the child was always experiencing whatever it is, it just wasn't named yet?

Or, did it occur to you that maybe they're not interested in sharing the specifics and opt for a generic term?

OP, when DD was a baby and anyone asked such a question, I generally commented "yeah, she's not much of a sleeper" or "she's pretty intense, seems to know what she likes or dislikes." Both were true, and were more communicative than a general high needs. Then the other person could take from that what they would, I'd spoken truthfully and we could all move on.


----------



## deditus (Feb 22, 2006)

I generally think that they have food intolerances or other digestive problems.


----------



## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

I voted for "I think it's overused, but there are high needs kids." If someone says they have a high needs infant, who am I to tell them that they don't? Especially since my kids were not high needs and so I haven't walked that walk.

In my experience, part of the 'issue' is that many people don't have a sense of the range of child development. So, they assume that the things that are hard about all kids (such as the fact that stranger anxiety and separation anxiety are normal stages of development) are specific to their child. For some kids, they probably are within the range of typical, for others they aren't. But if you're not really anticipating the issues, does it make a difference? We're growing up with smaller families, with fewer cousins, and more distant from most of our relatives. I had quite a bit of experience with babies because my oldest sister got married and had kids while I was quite young (there's a pretty big age gap), and my mom's youngest siblings were having kids too (again, a huge age gap in her family of 11). But I find that my experience is the exception rather than the rule. Now, having this exposure didn't necessarily make having my own kids easier, but it did give me some sense of what different kids are like.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan*
> 
> If it were possible to diagnose in babies, I suspect most high needs babies would get diagnosed with SPD. It's just that babies develop soooo fast that by the time they could get that diagnosis, most of them have more fully developed nervous systems and aren't being completely overwhelmed by the sensation of air on their skin and the sound of their own breathing.
> 
> ...


Normal development?

I don't think it's SPD. My SPD kid was actually a relatively easy baby. He had his moments (such as not ever nursing or falling asleep in public, and pretty intense stranger anxiety starting at 4 months and lasting until, oh, age 4). But he slept long stretches of time. He hated to be worn and to co-sleep. He was happy wriggling around on the floor all by himself. In fact, he needed that more than other babies I knew. Luckily for me, I figured that out by trial and error early on. But I know parents who would give a lot to be able to do that.


----------



## happysmileylady (Feb 6, 2009)

I voted that i think it's often overused. I have however said that about my own now 2 yr old. From a few days old until about 4 or 5 months old, she would begin screaming around 5ish, right as DH walked in the door, and usually passed out from exhaustion around midnight. Once she passed out, she slept for like 12 hours solid. But from around 4ish months, until like 9 months, somewhere around there anyway, she REFUSED to nap during the day. She would fall asleep, I would lay her down, and she would pop back up. And she would be tired and fussy and she wanted picked up but she didn't want to be held but she didn't want to be put down but really...she just didn't know what she wanted and she was unhappy. A lot. And between all that, and the PPD I was dealing with, I totally called her high needs. I would sit on the floor and cry and just wonder what the heck was going on, repeating to myself that this just wasn't what this was supposed to be like. She is my second, my first is a teen, there are 13 yrs between them. But while I remember it taking as much as 4 hrs to get her to sleep, I don't remember her crying nearly as much as my second did. And now that I have a third, who only cries about a third of the time that dd2 did, I know that really, she did cry a lot and needed more than the average kid.

But, looking back, I don't think it was "high needs" so much as it was that she needed to figure out how to get the right amount of sleep and she couldn't do it. That, and now, she's GO GO GO GO GO all the time, I think she just hated being a baby who needed someone else to do everything for her lol.

I DO somewhat agree with the idea that there are some parents who really want the lables. My sister has a stepson who is 10. His biological mother is ALWAYS looking for some lable or something to be wrong with him. He got into a fight at school-nothing too extravagant, just a misunderstanding that lead to pair of 10 year old boys throwing a couple pushes. His mother decided he had "anger management issues" and set him up with therapy. She's constantly telling him he has "food intolerances" that somehow magically disappear when he's with my sister and his dad. I am not saying that I automatically assume that every parent who says they have a high needs kid is an attention seeking label whore, but I do believe there are plenty of folks like that out there.


----------



## Bokonon (Aug 29, 2009)

I think if a parent feels like their child is high needs, that's enough for me to know that the parent is feeling overwhelmed, regardless of whether I would consider the child high needs or not.

My first was an easy baby. He was a terrible sleeper, but he was just delightful and I never considered him high needs. My second most definitely is. I don't call her that because I think she needs a label, and I actually didn't call her high needs until after she was like a year old and I realized it wasn't just baby stuff, and she met most if not all of the criteria of Dr. Sears' high-needs checklist. Before then, I just considered her extremely challenging. Nothing changed after I realized she was high-needs except I felt validated that I wasn't exaggerating her personality to myself.

She's almost 2 and she's much easier now and a lot more fun, but she still NEEDS more than my son did at this age or her friends that are the same age do. She needs a lot of stimulation, so we get out and do things all the time. She doesn't have a disorder - she just requires more out of me than an "easy" child. Though when others see her briefly, they don't see it, because she's not intense or whatever 100% of the time, and when we are out having fun with friends, that's a small part of her particular needs to be met, and she's content.

That's really what it boils down to for me anyway - it doesn't mean a child is impossible, it just means it takes more effort than whatever that parent perceives as normal to keep the child content.


----------



## physmom (Jun 15, 2009)

I've never really thought about it much. I don't think any of my friends in real life have every referred to their child as high needs so I guess it wouldn't seem obvious to me that it's over-used.

I do see it often on MDC but I figure if a parent needs to post here often there's probably a good chance that they are overwhelmed by their child or something going on with their child at the moment so they come here seeking extra support. Thus, it's not very surprising that it's mentioned here often.

I also think it's very natural for parents to question how normal their child is. DD cried pretty much non-stop the first two days of her life while my roommate's child in the hospital slept the entire time. I was a first time mom and so I definitely wondered if that was normal. Then as she grew, when she was stressed she would force herself to vomit (this went on until she was about 1.5). She would get extremely upset over certain outfits and refuse to wear them at a young age, she didn't sleep through the night until we night-weaned her after she turned 2 (before that she would wake once an hour at times), she refused solids until after she was 1, and in loud, noisy environments she gets easily overstimulated and starts hitting other kids. So we've always questioned this.

At the moment we suspect sensory issues and/or allergies. It's definitely NOT that we're seeking a label but DD comes from a family where there are members are both DH and my side whose lives have completely stopped due to anxiety/bipolar/depression. One person in particular was on drugs they give AIDS patients because his immunity system was entirely destroyed due to his extreme anxiety. This person has attempted to starve himself multiple times. So, yeah, it's something we're aware of and we try to keep an eye out for any signs.

As for what people thing in real life? I normally don't bring it up if I just met someone. There's a good chance DD also has allergies so that might come up if someone notices her constant scratching but that's about it. In many ways she's very normal and if you were just to see her at playdates when she's fed, has slept, and it's a place she's familiar with without too much going on she'd seem just like any other kid albeit very energetic. However, she has been in 3 different child care environments (daycare, babysitter, now a preschool). All three have mentioned how intense she is. When we came home after our babysitter watched her she usually looked liked she just had ran a marathon and many times she had problems just leaving the house with DD. Her daycare eventually just gave up even trying to get her to take naps because it would take an hour pushing her in the stroller with her screaming at full volume. Her preschool is the lucky one because they've gotten her after she turned 2 and, generally, she's much easier now. However, she's still "on" 24/7 and they have mentioned that along with issues getting her to sleep.

If someone on here wants to believe it's all in my head that's fine that's their prerogative. It's not like I know them in real life and as long as they are not hijacking a thread of mine where I'm seeking help for a behavior of DD's, I don't really care. I question it often and wonder how much is normal or just her personality? Is it really something else? We're working on setting up some appointments to hopefully get more answers, do some allergy (allergies also run in our families) testing etc. In the meantime I've found coming here and posting very therapeutic for me and for the most part I've just received very helpful answers (even if they don't agree with me, most have at least challenged my thinking). I honestly don't remember how often/if I've used the term high needs and I don't really care to look through my old threads







but I definitely consider DD to be spirited/energetic/intense. I personally like the terms wild child/stubborn because I see how much of her intensity can be a good thing as well as stubbornness and wild child just sounds like fun (at least to me!).


----------



## purplerose (Dec 27, 2010)

I didn't even believe in "high needs" until my 3rd was high needs. She COULD NOT be away from me for over a year without screaming the WHOLE TIME. Even her grandmother we saw frequently couldn't babysit without her screaming(not crying, but screaming) the entire time. Never falling asleep, never taking a break, never being distracted. She nursed constantly, day and night. I mean CONSTANTLY. I don't know how my nipples took it. Neither one of us slept more than 2 hours at a time until she was 16 months old and I drank a shot of butterschnapps at bedtime. She never would take a bottle, of any type nipple, and trust me, everybody tried everything. I needed a break so bad. I thought something was wrong with her but nothing showed up on any tests. I had never imagined a baby could be this difficult...I'd had two already, plus took care of other babies frequently. I KNEW babies and what to do. WIth this baby, I had no idea how I was going to keep living. Oh and she would not sleep in the bed with me, either. Or in the recliner, or crib, anywhere else. The only place that child would sleep was on the floor(carpeted). I was terrified if I left her on the floor the other kids would accidentally step on her so I cleaned out my bedroom closet and she slept on the closet floor. She couldn't sleep if there was noise, either. My MIL just loved blaming me for that one. She didn't just cry or whimper, she screamed like something was wrong with her. She was over half a year old before I stopped poo-poo'ing Sear's high-needs theory and I finally broke down and read it and just cried and cried. I always thought people with high-needs babies just spoiled their babies, didn't know what they were doing, (cuz remember I had two babies already and lots of experience!), the mother just had to be high strung and not laid-back enough. Boy did I learn my freaking lesson. Now she's 8 and I finally got over my fear of having another one like that and am pregnant again. Took me that long. I am pretty scared this baby will be high-needs but I keep telling myself, "What are the chances?" She's a very smart kid, VERY active lol She's the star of her softball team, she's very fun and likable now, and has been for years, I'm just pointing out the changes. The biggest help I had with her was some friends who also had a high-needs child. Dh and I went to a concert when my daughter was about 2 or so, and my friend babysat her. Kept her very busy. It was hard work for her, but her teenage son had been high needs as a baby. He was very good with our daughter also and she adored him. I wish I had had friends who knew what it was like from the beginning instead of meeting them when she was a toddler! It would have been such a major help, especially when family members were blaming ME for her being so "clingy". Clingy was not the word for it!! When someone tells me their baby is high needs, but that baby doesn't cry all the time and it lets someone else hold it I'm pretty skeptical. My husband was able to do more with her than anyone else. I felt so sorry for my older kids, you build up a baby as being something older kids can help with but they had to live with this child's screaming and always taking my time and us having to be silent whenever she bothered to sleep. She wouldn't let them mess with her until she was over a year old. She's pretty normal now, though a tiny bit louder than most and tends to be obnoxious LOL But she's really cute. I know if she weren't homeschooled, a school teacher would push for ADHD medication. We'll see how that goes later one. Her personality seemed to have ruined how my own mother feels about her but that's her own loss(my mom's, I mean). No one else seems affected by it and I finally got over the fear of those baby months.


----------



## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Yeah, purplerose, I was really/am traumatized by DS... And feeling like it was all my fault for being 'anxious and high-strung' or 'not cut out to be a mother' or something (he is my first/only)... I had been around babies plenty and never in my life had I seen a baby do anything like DS did. I knew it would be harder being a parent than simply babysitting for a day or whatever, but I was fully unprepared for how horrible it would be. I don't think I had PPD -- I think I had situational depression, I was depressed because nothing I did could possibly make my baby happy. He nursed 3-5 times an hour (for 10-40mins, so basically non-stop) and woke up every 20 mins all night (and all through naps, if I managed to get him to nap) until he was over 18mos (actually, he still wakes up every 20-60mins now, though starting to improve). I never put him down (though I didn't really want to) and most of our days were spent sitting in front of the TV on a static channel on HIGH volume while nursing him. The rest of the time, I was crying (and obviously he was too). He spit up 300000 times a day, massive amounts that required many loads of laundry and mopping the floor constantly. No one else could hold him, not even DH. He was well over a year old when his grandparents & other close relatives actually got to hold him for a minute or two or give him a hug. He didn't eat solid food until at least 18mos. I didn't shower, eat meals, etc. and obviously didn't (still don't!) sleep. He cries less now (he's 26mos) but still cries a lot... I notice he shuts down in situations where he'd normally cry -- i.e. if a truck goes by in the distance or someone picks him up... He is starting to be a little independent but until a couple months ago, we'd go on playdates etc. and he'd spend the entire time sitting with me or nursing while the other kids were playing. He is a totally different kid than he was ~6mos ago, much easier for the most part, but I still highly suspect there is something going on -- we've experimented with lots of things like food allergies and all, but haven't been able to get to the bottom of it. Even when he was born, they kept us extra days in the hospital and were running all sorts of tests and asking me what kind of drugs I was on!!! (I do not do drugs, I don't even drink....) because of how much he was crying & freaking out.

The worst part is, I read things like studies of other cultures where babies nurse many times an hour and rarely cry, where the calmest babies are the ones held/worn the most... and I DID THAT. I nursed constantly, even though I desperately needed a break. At 26mos (aside from a few occasions of falling asleep in the car), he has never slept anywhere except in my lap or curled up beside me. I can't imagine what it must be like to put your kid to bed & relax (or clean!) for an hour or two before joining them. I can't imagine being able to do whatever I want/need to during nap time. I can't imagine being able to do ANYTHING without being interrupted 5 minutes in by a DESPERATE need to nurse or whatever. And DH thinks his son hates him. We sacrificed any of our own needs, and any semblance of 'normal' parenthood, and it still wasn't/isn't enough.

Sorry, don't know why I felt the need to vent all that suddenly... but it does feel good to get it out!


----------



## KempsMama (Dec 1, 2008)

My first was super easy. My second was high needs until he became mobile, now I think he's more typical. My definition of high needs was that he nursed every hour at least, would not be put down, didn't care to be worn, but was really only content with me sitting on the couch holding and nursing him for hours. He wouldn't be soothed by any other person, no paci, no lovie, nothing but me.

Now I have a "friend" who SWEARS her little girl is high needs-8 weeks old, naps for two hours plus three times a day in her crib, spends most of her time in a swing or bouncy and only wakes twice a night. For the life of me I cannot understand why she thinks her babe is high needs.


----------



## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy*
> 
> He spit up 300000 times a day, massive amounts that required many loads of laundry and mopping the floor constantly.


Did you try medicating the reflux? It sounds like he was in so much pain







DS was like that until I got my diet figured out. Terribly uncomfortable.


----------



## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D_McG*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


The doctor told me it was normal!! By the time I figured out that maybe it wasn't, it was already starting to subside (and went away almost completely once I eliminated gluten from my own diet for my own issues)... So he was never medicated, though I'm not sure it would have helped because it wasn't classic reflux and the other things I tried such as keeping him at an angle didn't help either.


----------



## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

oh my goodness. I can't believe they told you that was normal







Poor baby!


----------



## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

When someone tells me that, generally I think they are feeling defensive, stressed, overwhelmed or some combo of the above.

I really don't care about what labels people use.

I can't say that any of my kids have been "high needs", true, I had 3 in 17 months, so needs were very high and frazzling at our household for the first 2 years but OTOH it was all about *volume*, not personality per se. The kids all have different personalities, and my DD and I in particular butt heads constantly because we are so alike and both extremely stubborn by nature. Maybe if I had to deal with everything by myself, I would have felt differently but thankfully DH works from home, so we have always been able to tag team.

I can't tell you how many times people said to me "Oh, if only you'd only X" (as if they knew my kid, or our family, or what would work for us), so I am reluctant to look down my nose at someone and think if only they did things my way then OF COURSE their children would behave "better". Plus, frankly, I am terrified over what kind of karmic retribution would come from me daring to open my mouth over such a thing. Already, EVERYTHING that I EVER criticized or snobbily looked down upon before kids (or between kids) has come back to bite me in the ass later on in my parenting journey. So I've learned to keep my fool mouth shut. Most of the time.


----------



## purplerose (Dec 27, 2010)

My daughter also didn't like to be worn, except facing forward in a Snugli. Otherwise, she'd only be held. Crunchy_mommy I am wondering if you have thought about the possibility of autism/asperger's? Some of what you said sounds possible, especially a truck going by distressing him. I had wondered about it with my daughter before I realized it was the high-needs in her. Just remember you're not alone and as your son gets older it will continue to get easier! And venting does help! You can pm me if you need to, anytime! I wish I'd had like-minded people in my life years ago.


----------



## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purplerose*
> 
> My daughter also didn't like to be worn, except facing forward in a Snugli. Otherwise, she'd only be held. Crunchy_mommy I am wondering if you have thought about the possibility of autism/asperger's? Some of what you said sounds possible, especially a truck going by distressing him. I had wondered about it with my daughter before I realized it was the high-needs in her. Just remember you're not alone and as your son gets older it will continue to get easier! And venting does help! You can pm me if you need to, anytime! I wish I'd had like-minded people in my life years ago.


Thank you!

You know, he really doesn't seem autistic at all (though I can't rule out Asperger's, he's only 2)... I do think SOMETHING is up but at the same time he is A LOT like me so maybe (right down to issues with background noise, shutting down when overwhelmed, etc.) so maybe it's just a genetic 'weirdness' lol. He has never been behind with milestones or anything -- in fact, he's ahead in many ways, and VERY verbal (though you'd never know it because he clams up around others!) I always wonder how much is just normal toddler stuff (though perhaps on the extreme end) and what's something more... every time I think it's time to call EI or something, he suddenly starts seeming more *normal* -- but overall he is doing so much better than just a few months ago and WAYYY bettter than when he was a baby!! I actually enjoy hanging out with him now. That sounds sad to say though... I wish I was able to enjoy his babyhood, and I wish HE could have enjoyed it.


----------



## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

It wouldn't hurt to call EI. It always seems to me in posts that your gut is telling you something is wrong but you keep talking yourself out of it? It's hard







:


----------



## MsFortune (Dec 5, 2010)

I think there are kids who have real high needs - and I'd assume that is a kid with a real issue that has not been diagnosed yet.

When people use this term to just mean their normal kid, I think it does a disservice to people who are struggling with a real high needs kid.

Spirited - I think that means bratty or poorly behaved. My kids have "spirited" moments. It does not mean that they have real high needs or a real issue.


----------



## joensally (Jun 19, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy*
> 
> You know, he really doesn't seem autistic at all (though I can't rule out Asperger's, he's only 2)... I do think SOMETHING is up but at the same time he is A LOT like me so maybe (right down to issues with background noise, shutting down when overwhelmed, etc.) so maybe it's just a genetic 'weirdness' lol. He has never been behind with milestones or anything -- in fact, he's ahead in many ways, and VERY verbal (though you'd never know it because he clams up around others!) I always wonder how much is just normal toddler stuff (though perhaps on the extreme end) and what's something more... every time I think it's time to call EI or something, he suddenly starts seeming more *normal* -- but overall he is doing so much better than just a few months ago and WAYYY bettter than when he was a baby!! I actually enjoy hanging out with him now. That sounds sad to say though... I wish I was able to enjoy his babyhood, and I wish HE could have enjoyed it.


crunchy_mommy, hugs! You've had a hard road to date!

I would strongly recommend calling EI and reading up on sensory processing disorder (SPD). SPD is an issue all on it's own, or the behaviours/reactions can be the result of other issues. If your son has SPD, there are lots of strategies to help him feel better in his own skin and in his own world.

I would suggest posting in Special Needs Parenting. Your DS may have no special needs and this may all be developmental for him - in other words, he'll outgrow it. But getting some strategies to help you both cope will provide such relief.


----------



## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

It doesn't matter to me if parents use the term high needs in reference to their kid who happens to wake up once most nights, or when parents use it who have a kid that wears me out when I hear about their day. Who am I to say who is really high needs? Everyone is different; just having a typical, easy going baby can seem "needy" especially when it is your first. It's taking care of another human being that is exhausting and hard work!

OP, I would also say you should look into an EI evaluation and see if there is any help out there for you and your DS. Even if you keep changing your mind, it certainly won't hurt. I've had two of my kids screened by child find (one went through it twice) and I don't regret it at all - for my kid who does have some special needs nor for my kid who does not qualify for any services. If anything, it will bring you peace of mind, whether you receive a diagnosis/referral or not.

eta: add me to the list of those who dislike the term spirited. To me, you might as well be calling your kid a brat, though I realize that many people view the word differently than I do.

Oh, and I am the one vote for "My kids are easy because I practice AP with them." just b/c I couldn't decide between a couple of the other choices and this one made me







. My kids sure as heck are not what I would call easy (now, at least, though I would say they were as babies - it had nothing to do with AP, and everything to do with personality and pure luck).


----------



## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Drummer's Wife*
> 
> Oh, and I am the one vote for "My kids are easy because I practice AP with them." just b/c I couldn't decide between a couple of the other choices and this one made me
> 
> ...


LOL well I put that option in the poll because MULTIPLE times I've heard people say that!! I wouldn't wish a true "high needs" baby on anyone, but it's extra hard not to wish one on someone who says that.









Yes, I probably should at least call EI. I hesitate because he has no real delays (or at least nothing they can't blame on me, i.e. he must wake a lot because we cosleep or he must not eat well because you're still BF'ing). I guess I feel silly contacting them and am not convinced they'd be any help...









And I'm not sure on the 'spirited' thing... I thought all kids were 'spirited'... maybe it's just like 'high-needs' -- not something you can fully understand 'til you have a kid like that???


----------



## Stephenie (Oct 11, 2007)

My son was one of those kids who everyone referred to as high needs or spirited before he was diagnosed with SPD and eventually, Asperger's as well. They are real diagnoses and I really resent the fact that people seem to feel they aren't. He has neurological differences from other kids. Period. I was not the one seeking out the labels. Actually, I was kind of in denial thinking that he was just going to grow out of it while my husband and my son's doctors were pushing to figure out what was going on. Every single medical professional that has met my son has said something is going on. A lot of parents who are facing a high needs kid would rather call them that than seek out a label. High needs seems to be something you could work through while ASD or SPD or ADHD etc etc are not things that go away. And some kids truly are just needy and move on to be "normal," but judging the parents is wrong. You don't know what they're dealing with. When you don't deal with a kid day to day, you really do not know what it's like at say bedtime. When my son used to take 2-4 HOURS to go to sleep. And then woke six or more times every.single.night. You just don't know what's going on in a family from snippets you see. If the parents seem to not be handling it perfectly, chances are it is because they are EXHAUSTED. It's HARD having a high needs/ special needs kid. It is. That said, I think parents are willing to say their kid is high needs when they are just going through a tough patch or something, and that's fine. It's not an official term and sometimes all kids have some tough times, and if the parents are trying to process it and use that term, who cares? I do get reeeeally sick of people acting like children with genuine issues are having labels pushed onto them by their "crazy" parents or something. Maybe it happens, but having a child who truly has special needs and has from birth (other medical issues in addition to ASD and SPD) it is really hard to hear people talk like that. I'd give anything if my kid didn't need the labels. But he does, they help him get services so he can function more like a typical kid. He needs these labels.


----------



## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

I think "oh that sucks!" lol

It might be overused, but I'm not the judge of that.

Ds1 was high needs, and no amount of hearing "they need a dx to be considered high needs" is going to change my opinion on that! lol He didn't cry that much, but he needed to be held ALL the time. Not just 3 or 6 hours a day, and not just 12 hours a day. At least 22 hours a day, he needed to be in arms (and actually, I'm being generous- I think it was more like 23.5 hours a day). He would barely sleep without a boob in his mouth (including naps), and would wake up immediately if my arm wasn't around him. It was like the world was coming to an end if I tried to put him down, or if I didn't nurse him *immediately* when he wanted to nurse. It didn't get much better until WELL after he started crawling, and then only gradually.

Ds2- he's a lot of work, but he's most definitely not high needs.


----------



## joensally (Jun 19, 2006)

What's the downside of calling EI?

Typical development includes gross motor, fine motor, cognitive, socio-emotional and self-regulation. It sounds like he's struggling with self-regulation. There are strategies you can employ to help him develop self-calming and self-regulation skills - which will make his and your life much easier.

DD was an intense, very little sleep infant. She's still that way . DS was easy as an infant overall (compared to his sister), but ended up with a diagnosis of SPD at 3.5. Knowing what was happening for him was invaluable.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy*
> 
> Quote: Yes, I probably should at least call EI. I hesitate because he has no real delays (or at least nothing they can't blame on me, i.e. he must wake a lot because we cosleep or he must not eat well because you're still BF'ing). I guess I feel silly contacting them and am not convinced they'd be any help...


----------



## Birdie B. (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy*
> 
> Yeah, purplerose, I was really/am traumatized by DS... And feeling like it was all my fault for being 'anxious and high-strung' or 'not cut out to be a mother' or something (he is my first/only)... I had been around babies plenty and never in my life had I seen a baby do anything like DS did. I knew it would be harder being a parent than simply babysitting for a day or whatever, but I was fully unprepared for how horrible it would be. I don't think I had PPD -- I think I had situational depression, I was depressed because nothing I did could possibly make my baby happy. He nursed 3-5 times an hour (for 10-40mins, so basically non-stop) and woke up every 20 mins all night (and all through naps, if I managed to get him to nap) until he was over 18mos (actually, he still wakes up every 20-60mins now, though starting to improve). I never put him down (though I didn't really want to) and most of our days were spent sitting in front of the TV on a static channel on HIGH volume while nursing him. The rest of the time, I was crying (and obviously he was too). He spit up 300000 times a day, massive amounts that required many loads of laundry and mopping the floor constantly. No one else could hold him, not even DH. He was well over a year old when his grandparents & other close relatives actually got to hold him for a minute or two or give him a hug. He didn't eat solid food until at least 18mos. I didn't shower, eat meals, etc. and obviously didn't (still don't!) sleep. He cries less now (he's 26mos) but still cries a lot... I notice he shuts down in situations where he'd normally cry -- i.e. if a truck goes by in the distance or someone picks him up... He is starting to be a little independent but until a couple months ago, we'd go on playdates etc. and he'd spend the entire time sitting with me or nursing while the other kids were playing. He is a totally different kid than he was ~6mos ago, much easier for the most part, but I still highly suspect there is something going on -- we've experimented with lots of things like food allergies and all, but haven't been able to get to the bottom of it. Even when he was born, they kept us extra days in the hospital and were running all sorts of tests and asking me what kind of drugs I was on!!! (I do not do drugs, I don't even drink....) because of how much he was crying & freaking out.
> 
> ...


I just want to give you a hug - and a break! What you're describing sounds like hell on earth to me, honestly. I don't think I could handle it. My daughter is considered special needs, has birth defects and has required many surgeries and medications, testing, therapies, etc. But she is laid-back, happy and easy-going. Although the first years were hard, it was so much different than what you're describing. You are amazing!


----------



## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy*
> 
> Yeah, purplerose, I was really/am traumatized by DS... And feeling like it was all my fault for being 'anxious and high-strung' or 'not cut out to be a mother' or something (he is my first/only)... I had been around babies plenty and never in my life had I seen a baby do anything like DS did. I knew it would be harder being a parent than simply babysitting for a day or whatever, but I was fully unprepared for how horrible it would be. I don't think I had PPD -- I think I had situational depression, I was depressed because nothing I did could possibly make my baby happy. He nursed 3-5 times an hour (for 10-40mins, so basically non-stop) and woke up every 20 mins all night (and all through naps, if I managed to get him to nap) until he was over 18mos *(actually, he still wakes up every 20-60mins now, though starting to improve).* I never put him down (though I didn't really want to) and most of our days were spent sitting in front of the TV on a static channel on HIGH volume while nursing him. The rest of the time, I was crying (and obviously he was too). He spit up 300000 times a day, massive amounts that required many loads of laundry and mopping the floor constantly. No one else could hold him, not even DH. He was well over a year old when his grandparents & other close relatives actually got to hold him for a minute or two or give him a hug. He didn't eat solid food until at least 18mos. I didn't shower, eat meals, etc. and obviously didn't (still don't!) sleep. He cries less now (he's 26mos) but still cries a lot... I *notice he shuts down in situations where he'd normally cry -- i.e. if a truck goes by in the distance or someone picks him up... He is starting to be a little independent but until a couple months ago, we'd go on playdates etc. and he'd spend the entire time sitting with me or nursing while the other kids were playing. He is a totally different kid than he was ~6mos ago, much easier for the most part, but I still highly suspect there is something going on -- we've experimented with lots of things like food allergies and all, but haven't been able to get to the bottom of it. Even when he was born, they kept us extra days in the hospital and were running all sorts of tests and asking me what kind of drugs I was on!!! (I do not do drugs, I don't even drink....) because of how much he was crying & freaking out.*


Have you thought of a sleep study? Seriously, waking every 20-60 minutes has got to make him pretty unhappy. I'm wondering if there's some apnea going on there, or if he's still having silent reflux. Yes, cosleeping babies wake more, but my "terrible" sleeper woke every 2 hours until she was 3, not every 20 minutes!

Another thought that crossed my mind was sensory issues -- what you describe is what my son did (still does to some extent) when he had sensory overload. His occupational therapist made a huge difference in his life. Have you read: The Out of Sync Child?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MsFortune*
> 
> I think there are kids who have real high needs - and I'd assume that is a kid with a real issue that has not been diagnosed yet.
> 
> ...


Really? See, I have a spirited kid. She's intense. She's sensitive. She blows up easily. (But she also gets really excited easily.) She wears her heart on her sleeve. She feels things deeply. She's got a firm sense of how the world should run (she spent 30 minutes discussing/worrying because her teacher was teaching the kids in the reading class what adjectives were before she'd taught them what nouns and verbs were (dd had learned nouns and verbs in another class), and she thought that really, they should learn nouns and verbs first.) She fits the classic definition of a spirited child. (And FWIW, my spirited child was a very easy baby. She was perfectly happy and content most of the time. She had a few sleep issues, which were solved by co-sleeping.)

But, neither dd nor any of the other clearly spirited kids that I know are bratty. They're just intense. They don't shake off slights or things very easily. They'll be great leaders one day, I'm sure.


----------



## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MsFortune*
> 
> I think there are kids who have real high needs - and I'd assume that is a kid with a real issue that has not been diagnosed yet.
> 
> ...


I'm not familiar with the term "spirited" being used in connection with brattiness or ill-behaved kids. I'm reluctant to use the term "spirited" on my own DD and I was also reluctant to use the term "high needs." My DD is is an incredibly intense person, so intense that I was seeking something, some term, to describe her. She is highly emotional, highly alert, highly creative, needs little sleep, is always expressing herself in very dramatic ways. Sometimes I just want it to stop! At least for a few hours. I don't think she is high needs, though. Despite all of DD's drama, she is very independent and it is not that she "needs" so much as she has difficulty finding ways to express herself and to control her emotions. I'm aware of actual high needs kids out there and through trial and error and observation, I've come to the conclusion that DD is not high needs.

I recently read about a personality type called "active-alert" and it describes my DD to a tee. What comforted me was that it is not considered a problem or disorder, but a personality type. It all makes sense to me now. I've also read that these personality types are often misdiagnosed as ones with ADD and/or are considered high needs, etc. It is hard and draining on us but now that we feel we have pinpointed the source, we try to work on helping her develop her creativity and to keep her emotions in check in appropriate ways.


----------



## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LynnS6*
> 
> Have you thought of a sleep study? Seriously, waking every 20-60 minutes has got to make him pretty unhappy. I'm wondering if there's some apnea going on there, or if he's still having silent reflux


agree. That is really not typical or healthy at his age. I really think you need to get him some help. It'll help you, too!


----------



## Laur318 (Nov 25, 2008)

i nannied for ever. some kids truly are high needs. some babies wear out their moms while other babies sleep, eat, smile. AP or not. my babe and i were so freaking attached and he was still extremely demanding/ 'impatient", if you will... i wonder if he would have been a screamer if we didnt practice AP. he was more of a whiner if he wanted something, and he wanted it right away, as soon as he noticed he wanted something. but omg was he exhausting and very sensitive compared to the 3 other newborns i cared for. then i had one baby who needed to be ON you all day. fine. baby girl's parents didnt allow baby wearing because it wasn't safe to them . their kid, their choice... well, this kid had to be held in arms every second, and she preferred if you stood to hold her. i'd start sitting down, and there went the tears. that, to me, is high needs!


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LynnS6*
> 
> Really? See, I have a spirited kid. She's intense. She's sensitive. She blows up easily. (But she also gets really excited easily.) She wears her heart on her sleeve. She feels things deeply. She's got a firm sense of how the world should run (she spent 30 minutes discussing/worrying because her teacher was teaching the kids in the reading class what adjectives were before she'd taught them what nouns and verbs were (dd had learned nouns and verbs in another class), and she thought that really, they should learn nouns and verbs first.) She fits the classic definition of a spirited child. (And FWIW, my spirited child was a very easy baby. She was perfectly happy and content most of the time. She had a few sleep issues, which were solved by co-sleeping.)
> 
> This is very much what dd1 is like. She was a very difficult baby, but hasn't been that bad since she was about one. She's not bratty. She's just very intense and very sensitive, and very volatile. She's also a really, really neat little girl, and it's a joy getting to know her.


----------



## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I think high needs is a real thing but I don't think it is a huge deal. My dd has always been a little needier than many of her peers and it was a serious drain on me during her first few years of life, I couldn't use the bathroom on my own because she couldn't even be apart from me for that long. She has slowly grown out of most of that and really doesn't seem to be that needy to me now (though her teachers do see her as being slightly needier along with a couple other kids in the class). I don't regret meeting her needs and I don't think that there is anything wrong with children having different levels of needs, in fact I think that it is wrong to take a cookie cutter view of children as all being either the same or having serious problems. I think that this is a sad thing that many in society who are not comfortable with differences do. My dd is 8 now and besides needing her "cup filled" a little more frequently than other children her age she is doing really well emotionally, physically, academically, and spiritually.

I


----------



## dmpmercury (Mar 31, 2008)

To me a baby is high needs if they feed very frequently and demand to nurse almost 24/7. They are fussy and demanding. They want to be held all the time and you must be up and moving. They wake very frequently despite gentle attempts at helping them and are very angry when they do wake. They are very intense and high energy and need more sensory input than most babies or toddlers. All babies are needy and demanding at times but it is more intense and constant with a high needs baby and not related to teething or illness. I don't think a high needs baby has to cry for hours or cry for all their awake time and not be able to be soothed. I think that is usually caused by reflux or other medical problems that cause pain. I think of high needs as a more demanding intense personality rather than a medical thing like reflux which is probably even more demanding and hard to deal with than a high needs baby.


----------



## La Limena (Apr 16, 2008)

Hmm. I know that words are sometimes tricky to understand, so let me see if I can be more clear.

I would define a child that has no medical or psychological problems as normal. To me, the absence of disease, whether physical or mental, is defined as normal or healthy.

Just because a problem hasn't been diagnosed, doesn't mean it does not exist. The diagnosis may be a work in progress. For example, a person with abnormally high fasting blood sugar is diabetic. If their blood sugar regulation became abnormal one month ago, but they don't find out until six months later that they are officially diabetic, they still would have been diabetic for those 7 months during which they were experiencing strange symptoms such as thirst, blurred vision, etc. This person does not have normal health.

Similarly, children who were behaving abnormally and were later officially diagnosed with ASD or SPD or GERD or whatever would fall outside of the category of normal.

What I clearly opined was that parents of what could be considered *normal* children may misuse/overuse the non-specific, non-medical, non-psychological term "high needs" for secondary gain, whatever that secondary gain may be for that particular person. And I feel sorry for them that they may lack a support structure or the personal strength to find a more constructive way to cope with the challenges of parenting and must resort to using the aforementioned *normal* children for secondary gain.

Perhaps I live in a region that is plagued with disease and all these allegedly "high needs" children that I have encountered are really not normal and healthy as they seem. The incidence of disease in my area must be of epidemic proportion! I will make a mental note to call in the appropriate agencies to study how it could be that every child that has ever acted difficult in my area must obviously have an undiagnosed condition. But seriously, in my opinion, a baby that isn't sleeping though the night at 4 weeks, or that cries in his stroller but is happy to be held, or a kid that wants the crusts cut off her sandwiches, or dislikes bananas, or likes to run around without socks on, is a normal baby or kid doing normal baby or kid things for their developmental stage or personality. So when these IRL parents complain of how "high needs" their kid is and I see other parents of profoundly disabled children complaining less than these "high needs" parents, I think they are whiners that have unrealistic ideas about how *normal* children can be. I think it would be of benefit to work on those unrealistic expectations instead of slapping a convenient label on their *normal* kid. Especially a convenient label that is outstandingly un-PC to question.

Maybe I am more of a skeptic than average but OP asked for honest opinions, good, bad, and ugly though they may be. The reality is that many people (in fact the majority if we use poll results) are skeptical of the label "high needs."


----------



## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

"I would define a child that has no medical or psychological problems as normal. To me, the absence of disease, whether physical or mental, is defined as normal or healthy."

I'd expand that to "medical, psychological or behavioral problems." My ds has chronic, ongoing, disabling behavioral problems that don't seem to be tied to a diagnosable physical or psychological condition, and which are not so far controllable with medication. He is, to quote the kiddie shrink, "just a little different -" but he suffers, and we all suffer with him. So I tend to believe parents who tell me that they are facing a serious challenge with a child, even when there is no DX and the kid, at that time in that place, looks just fine to me.







"High needs" seems as good a term as any for this kind of situation.


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Smithie*
> 
> "I would define a child that has no medical or psychological problems as normal. To me, the absence of disease, whether physical or mental, is defined as normal or healthy."
> 
> ...


Oh, so true. DS2 breaks my heart.


----------



## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)




----------



## joensally (Jun 19, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *La Limena*
> 
> Hmm. I know that words are sometimes tricky to understand, so let me see if I can be more clear.
> 
> ...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *La Limena*
> 
> Since you asked to spare the sugar-coating, I think parents these days are over-eager for labels. If their child doesn't have a bona fide medical or psychological issue, then they will opt for something generic as "high needs" or "special needs". I think there is a munchausen-by-proxy-like need for sympathy and praise.


Unfortunately MDC reverse-ordered your posts when I multi-quoted.

I actually agree that we are culturally engaging in an over-pathologizing of our children. However, I don't feel that I possess a crystal ball to know if casual contacts are actually dealing with "high needs" versus more typical child development. And I would actually assume that the other person was using high needs to either grease the conversation (ie not get into details) or to be protective of their child's information.

One time a friend of mine was doing registration for an event, and whenever she was talking to parents of infants/toddlers she would ask how the baby was sleeping. Consistently, the mothers were claiming that the babes were sleeping through the night, while the dads were standing behind shaking their heads. Perception, and social expectations, can be powerful influencers of what people communicate to others.


----------



## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *joensally*
> 
> Unfortunately MDC reverse-ordered your posts when I multi-quoted.
> 
> ...


Aside from that, even - "normal" children, even ones with no diagnosable issues etc etc etc, fall on a continuum of how much energy the require of their care giver. High needs children w/out other issues fall on one end of that spectrum - the lack of a diagnosable medical problem doesn't make caring for their child any easier just because they are technically "normal." They migt be normal, but they certainly aren't "average." There are some babies/toddlers/children who are low needs (usually called "easy babies.") I had one on that end of the spectrum, too, and it was seriously bliss after her older brother - slept through the night very early, didn't nurse around the clock, fell asleep on her own from birth, almost never cried, was happy to hang out on a blanket while I chatted with her and went about my day dealing with her high needs older brother, would nap anywhere, etc. I know she wasn't average either, though she was certainly normal. But I never hear people questioning whether "easy babies" actually exist or suggesting that parents of those easy kids are just trying to get attention for their easy baby (unless, of course, they're the type to attribute their child's pleasant disposition to their amazing, wonderful, perfect parenting. I might have been one of those had she come first!). I guess that's why it bugs me to hear parents who describe their kids as high needs as some sort of attention seeking, munchausen-by-proxy weirdos who should just shut up already. When I have used the term HN or spirited to describe my son, it's as a short hand to describe certain personality traits, and nothing more.


----------



## Bokonon (Aug 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eclipse*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


----------



## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *La Limena*
> 
> *But seriously, in my opinion, a baby that isn't sleeping though the night at 4 weeks, or that cries in his stroller but is happy to be held, or a kid that wants the crusts cut off her sandwiches, or dislikes bananas, or likes to run around without socks on, is a normal baby or kid doing normal baby or kid things for their developmental stage or personality.*


I'm seeing a lot of "or"s in there. My experience and opinion. I high needs baby or child isn't a child who has "this need, or this need, or this need", a high needs baby or child has "this need, and this need, and this need, and this need, and a million and one other needs to the exclusion of all other options."


----------



## konayossie (Jul 29, 2010)

I so relate to what you ladies said....

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Peony*
> 
> I go back and forth. My DD1 was HN even at 8 now she still is so draining compared to her younger siblings. As she got older though, multiple disorders showed themselves but back when she was a never sleeping, screaming all day long until age 1 child, who didn't not sleep a single second on top of me until she was 3, high needs was the only thing I could call her. Possessed monster child just didn't sound that great.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purplerose*
> 
> I didn't even believe in "high needs" until my 3rd was high needs. She COULD NOT be away from me for over a year without screaming the WHOLE TIME. Even her grandmother we saw frequently couldn't babysit without her screaming(not crying, but screaming) the entire time. Never falling asleep, never taking a break, never being distracted. She nursed constantly, day and night. I mean CONSTANTLY. I don't know how my nipples took it. Neither one of us slept more than 2 hours at a time until she was 16 months old and I drank a shot of butterschnapps at bedtime. She never would take a bottle, of any type nipple, and trust me, everybody tried everything. I needed a break so bad. I thought something was wrong with her but nothing showed up on any tests. I had never imagined a baby could be this difficult...I'd had two already, plus took care of other babies frequently. I KNEW babies and what to do. WIth this baby, I had no idea how I was going to keep living. Oh and she would not sleep in the bed with me, either. Or in the recliner, or crib, anywhere else. The only place that child would sleep was on the floor(carpeted). I was terrified if I left her on the floor the other kids would accidentally step on her so I cleaned out my bedroom closet and she slept on the closet floor. She couldn't sleep if there was noise, either. My MIL just loved blaming me for that one. She didn't just cry or whimper, she screamed like something was wrong with her. She was over half a year old before I stopped poo-poo'ing Sear's high-needs theory and I finally broke down and read it and just cried and cried. I always thought people with high-needs babies just spoiled their babies, didn't know what they were doing, (cuz remember I had two babies already and lots of experience!), the mother just had to be high strung and not laid-back enough. Boy did I learn my freaking lesson. Now she's 8 and I finally got over my fear of having another one like that and am pregnant again. Took me that long. I am pretty scared this baby will be high-needs but I keep telling myself, "What are the chances?" She's a very smart kid, VERY active lol She's the star of her softball team, she's very fun and likable now, and has been for years, I'm just pointing out the changes. The biggest help I had with her was some friends who also had a high-needs child. Dh and I went to a concert when my daughter was about 2 or so, and my friend babysat her. Kept her very busy. It was hard work for her, but her teenage son had been high needs as a baby. He was very good with our daughter also and she adored him. I wish I had had friends who knew what it was like from the beginning instead of meeting them when she was a toddler! It would have been such a major help, especially when family members were blaming ME for her being so "clingy". Clingy was not the word for it!! When someone tells me their baby is high needs, but that baby doesn't cry all the time and it lets someone else hold it I'm pretty skeptical. My husband was able to do more with her than anyone else. I felt so sorry for my older kids, you build up a baby as being something older kids can help with but they had to live with this child's screaming and always taking my time and us having to be silent whenever she bothered to sleep. She wouldn't let them mess with her until she was over a year old. She's pretty normal now, though a tiny bit louder than most and tends to be obnoxious LOL But she's really cute. I know if she weren't homeschooled, a school teacher would push for ADHD medication. We'll see how that goes later one. Her personality seemed to have ruined how my own mother feels about her but that's her own loss(my mom's, I mean). No one else seems affected by it and I finally got over the fear of those baby months.


DS was my #1 and I had only minimal infant experience, so no real expectations. I was totally unprepared for DS and his needs though. When I, in my long hours of Googling my baby's actions trying to figure out what I could do to make him happy, stumbled across Dr. Sears' high-need list and explanation, I cried. It was so wonderful for me to have a label to put on his behavior and to know that he wasn't the only one out there like this and that I wasn't doing anything wrong to cause it. In fact, I was already following all of Sears' recs naturally b/c they were the only things that somewhat stopped the screaming. When I made a photo album of his first 6 mos when he was around 9 months, I titled it, "To Hell and Back..." People thought it was horrible when they saw it, but I felt that it was a fair representation of the experience... DS began staying awake from 4 weeks on for 15-19 hours at a stretch. He screamed the entire time he wasn't on the boob. I was suffering from some undiagnosable breastfeeding pains (probably vasospasms + small mouth) that caused me to be in toe-curling pain at every latch on for the first 5 months. He refused any type of bottle. It made for a rather miserable first few months. He was suffering from GERD, which finally started getting treated ADEQUATELY around 5 months when we finally got to see the pedi GI. It took me logging an entire day of our misery for our ped to believe that something out of the ordinary was going on though. Even after treating the GERD, DS was still high needs--he still needed to be held 24/7, he still was a sucky sleeper, etc, but at least he was less miserable if you just held him/nursed him. Before that, he was miserable no matter what. It's a rough, rough place to be as a parent (and I'm sure for the infant). So, yeah, when people say their kid is "high needs," I think there might be something to that. And I for sure don't tell an exhausted, high-needs mommy, "Honey, you just need to sleep when he sleeps...." That particular piece of advice was always so awful to hear since it told me A. the person wasn't listening when I said DS NEVER slept except for a very broken 6-8 hr stretch at night or B. they didn't believe me....

Having the high-needs label helped me a lot. I have certainly heard others apply the term to babies that I would consider "easy" by comparison to DS, but I figure there's a whole spectrum of infant personality out there, from high-needs to super-mellow. I am sure there were even more difficult babies out there than DS, but I know I haven't heard from any who come close IRL.

So, I both totally sympathize, but also think a lot of people think their baby is high needs when it might be less so than others....

Also, as to the suggestion that people are using this term to get attention--I can assure you that I don't. I learned mostly NOT to talk about DS's issues, since everyone had lots of easy (unhelpful answers) as to how to "fix" DS, most with the implication that I was the root cause of our problems (and especially our coping mechanisms--constant physical attachment, cosleeping, demand nursing, etc). I generally only asked questions hinting at his problems of recent moms trying to find out if they'd dealt with anything similar.

Right now I tend to think "spirited" is a probably over-used, mabye meaningless label, BUT I totally suspect that's because I don't have a particularly "spirited" toddler.







It's all in the parenting till it's your kid, right??


----------



## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Birdie B.*
> 
> I just want to give you a hug - and a break! What you're describing sounds like hell on earth to me, honestly. I don't think I could handle it. My daughter is considered special needs, has birth defects and has required many surgeries and medications, testing, therapies, etc. But she is laid-back, happy and easy-going. Although the first years were hard, it was so much different than what you're describing. You are amazing!


Thank you so much. Just hearing you say that feels incredibly validating. It's hard to explain in words just what it is/was like to parent this kid and I usually feel like I'm at best, misunderstood, and at worst, totally crazy. I really, really needed to hear this.


----------



## Lisa85 (May 22, 2006)

I think a lot of times, parents will confuse high-needs or spirited with undisciplined or misguided discipline. I have seen a lot of kids in my playgroup who's parents claim they have a "spirited" child, when in reality, the parents allow their kids to get away with everything and rarely follow through on consequences. So naturally, the kids don't listen because they have no reason to. Meanwhile, the parents are ignoring bad behavior while complaining/explaining that their kids are high needs and how difficult it is. It's a disservice to the child obviously and to parents with truly high needs children.

I think as previous posters have said many high needs labels come from too high of expectations from parents. Baby wants to cluster feed all evening and is up several times a night at, oh 12 weeks old and then everybody gets bent out of shape that s/he isn't sleeping 12 hours a night and going 4 hours between feeds like every other baby they know of.


----------



## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eclipse*
> 
> Aside from that, even - "normal" children, even ones with no diagnosable issues etc etc etc, fall on a continuum of how much energy the require of their care giver. High needs children w/out other issues fall on one end of that spectrum - the lack of a diagnosable medical problem doesn't make caring for their child any easier just because they are technically "normal." They migt be normal, but they certainly aren't "average."


Yes, exactly. Thanks for putting into words what I couldn't. I have no need to use my kid to make me "cooler" or different or whatever. Ds1 required a LOT. He had a lot of needs. lol. Nope, he didn't have a dx then, and he doesn't now. He's actually a very normal 6yo. Possibly more social than others, and has a higher need for attention perhaps, but nothing out of the ordinary at all.

My second is (always has been) a lot of work. But he was occasionally ok with being put down for a few minutes, and I never had to nurse him on the toilet until he was sick recently. He wasn't high needs. He was what I would consider in the realm of "average" I suppose. But my first, man. Yeah, high needs.

I don't understand the sentiment that a baby can't be high needs unless they have a dx, or special needs. Didn't Dr. Sears coin the term "high needs" and can't it pretty much describe an otherwise "normal" baby who needs to be held a lot, needs to nurse a lot, needs to be moving/walked/rocked/whatever all the time...and demands it all the time?

Granted, a baby with certain dx or special needs would have been more work than mine, I assume. But that doesn't negate the fact that ds1's needs were not in the realm of "normal" when he was little.


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lisa85*
> 
> I think a lot of times, parents will confuse high-needs or spirited with undisciplined or misguided discipline. I have seen a lot of kids in my playgroup who's parents claim they have a "spirited" child, when in reality, the parents allow their kids to get away with everything and rarely follow through on consequences. So naturally, the kids don't listen because they have no reason to. Meanwhile, the parents are ignoring bad behavior while complaining/explaining that their kids are high needs and how difficult it is.
> 
> ...


----------



## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lisa85*
> 
> I think a lot of times, parents will confuse high-needs or spirited with undisciplined or misguided discipline. I have seen a lot of kids in my playgroup who's parents claim they have a "spirited" child, when in reality, the parents allow their kids to get away with everything and rarely follow through on consequences. So naturally, the kids don't listen because they have no reason to. Meanwhile, the parents are ignoring bad behavior while complaining/explaining that their kids are high needs and how difficult it is. It's a disservice to the child obviously and to parents with truly high needs children.
> 
> I think as previous posters have said many high needs labels come from too high of expectations from parents. Baby wants to cluster feed all evening and is up several times a night at, oh 12 weeks old and then everybody gets bent out of shape that s/he isn't sleeping 12 hours a night and going 4 hours between feeds like every other baby they know of.


Maybe that is true in a limited amount of cases, but tell that to the mom (me) who has a kid melting down in the subway due to sensory overload and no effing amount of discipline is going to cure that. People look at me like I'm insane and I give them the "yes" nod. Yes, I'm insane. So is my kid.









Btwn: I'm a pretty laid back person. I deal with criminals and people committing criminal acts in my profession. My expectations for humans are really, really low. There are a lot of "bad" people out there. People that lie, cheat, steal, do stuff to gain the upper hand, despite the fact that it is wrong and people don't shouldn't act that way in normal, human relationships. My expectations are pretty low. I do expect my kid, however, to act appropriately, with empathy, and with honesty and integrity in her daily dealings. She's too young to grasp a lot of these concepts specifically or even generally. She has a hard time harnassing her feelings and emotions. It is something we are working on. She has a harder time than most of her peers. It is a hard thing for us.


----------



## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

I dislike "spirited" to describe intense, confident, or demanding children because it seems very sarcastic at worst (kind of like a euphanism for brat for many people) and implying that all other children are mealiymouthed mush at best. My DD has the personality that many would consider spirited (intense, loud, confident, stubborn, creative, doesn't give a damn about what anyone else thinks of her or her ideas and thus little care for impressing/pleasing others, go-for-it, blah blah); one of her brothers nudges that way, but the other one has just as much "spirit"--but his is a gentle spirit--he manages to have many of the same qualities, but more empathy and more people managing skills even at 7. I love and appreciate all my kids; and see that all of them have plenty of "spirit" (which is a good thing). However, I'm also sympathetic to the need for a positive-sounding label--it's just that I think now (maybe because of overuse) it's become sarcastic for many people, or sounds sarcastic to many.


----------



## shnitzel (Jan 6, 2010)

I think having a "high needs" little brother completely changed my way of thinking even before kids.

All my sister and I can say about our babies is how easy they are and sisters baby sleeps on top of her all night!

I am sure there are things about my child that would make me consider her "high needs" if I didn't have experience with my little brother. The normal parenting frustrations are definitely easier because of AP and I think I have avoided the first child traps because I grew up around children but without experience every baby seems high needs since a normal baby wants to be held and bounced c constantly, follows you to the bathroom, has stranger anxiety, is picky as a toddler, throws screaming and kicking tantrums, decides they won't wear pants, cries between the hours of 10 & 11 etc. and if you didn't realize all of the demands having children entail then you will assume your child is high needs.

My brother is one of those kids who was high needs as a baby and is now SPD which I don't think is the entire issue since there are social and behavioural issues. He was really high needs and at 7 is still considerably more demanding than my almost 2 year old.


----------



## mysweetboys (May 18, 2007)

I have been reading this thread with interest, and I am surprised at the different interpretations people have...

Re: spirited... I had no idea people would interpret this term in such a negative manner, either to reflect on the child or the parenting (or lack thereof). Honestly, when DS#1 was about 1.5 and I found the "spirited child" book I was thrilled to find a more positive way of looking at my child's personality and behaviors... instead of feeling like my child was rigid, overreactive, controlling, and having ridiculously horrible tantrums (read: hours of intense tantrums, not minutes) I was able to frame it up as him being more sensitive, persistent, and intense than most children his age... so I felt the concept of him being spirited was so much more positive than many of the other ways he could be described. And I will honestly say that I don't think our parenting was responsible for his spirited behavior - we were calm and gentle and nurturing, yet firm in our expectations and boundaries - we did not say something if we were not willing/able to follow through so his tantrums were not related to getting what he wanted out of them.

I will say that I think almost all children are challenging at some point in their lives. However, I fully believe that there are many children who are "high needs" whether it is related to a (perhaps yet to be diagnosed) condition or simply their temperament. Those of us who have slept less than two hours of broken sleep a night for months or years on end despite trying everything to build a routine and soothe our child any way possible; those of us who have held a screaming child for hours and hours and hours on end without being able to stop the screaming using all of the tools in our toolbox; those of us who endured multiple-hour-long tantrums and meltdowns which escalate instantly over very minor things (even when preparation is given), we know without a doubt that "high needs" children exist and that their needs to be a way for parents to talk about it and access support.

FWIW, my children have ended up with medical labels and diagnoses over time and will likely end up with more as time goes on.

And I would like to point out two things about perceptions based on what we see in public and what is disclosed to us...

1) some children can manage without looking like a high needs child for a short period of time, so what you see in one environment may not reflect the rest of the realities of the needs this family deals with (e.g. At two my child would be quiet and reserved at play groups and activities at the Early Years Centre - parents often commented on what a quiet polite boy he was. However, as the centre was nearing closing time I would begin prepping for leaving and the scene would begin to change for those who were still there at that time; by the time we were leaving he would be screaming at the top of his lungs and trying to run random places while I had to grab him, dress him repeatedly as he would try to tear off every item I got on him (all while calmly reminding him we need to go now, if you are ready to cooperate you can put on your mittens or your boots...), and eventually I would have to carry him screaming to the car - at the car I had to physically force him into the seat or else close the door with him inside as he would hit and kick, he sometimes soiled himself in protest hoping I would take him back in (was never ever a possibility)... this sort of scene was the stuff our lives were made of, but people who saw us for just a short time would see nothing but the quiet polite boy). Also, if our child is having a particularly challenging day we may simply not leave the house...

2) What appears to be ineffective parenting may be well planned and thought out given the individual family's circumstances. For example, a parent may say something to a child and not follow through because they know from experience that their child would go into a full-on violent meltdown if they did follow through and they are sparing those around them that experience (though I understand why people do this, I would never say something that I could or would not follow through on, as I would not want to reinforce it and feel I have to show my kids I am consistent in my expectations. Therefore I have carried my children screaming/kicking/hitting away from places where they did not respond to my reminders regarding their expectations while at the playground/friends house etc. (unfortunately we never did get invited to do anything with one of those friends or their whole network of friends again... I think due to this). We do, while in public places running errands etc. tend to parent a bit differently than we do at home, because we need to preserve our ability to get our children home safely now that we cannot count on them remaining safely buckled in while driving, so we tend to be a lot more flexible in our plans on a day where we think that is in the best interests of our families... others may think that is poor parenting if all they have is their perception...

Just my rambling thoughts as a parent of children who have pushed me to develop patience, knowledge and skills I never would have imagined I would have needed (although I fully expected parenting would be challenging), and as a parent who still feels I cannot meet their needs effectively on a consistent basis despite a very strong basis of knowledge and skills (patience level still a work in progress, having a strong correlation to sleep or lack thereof...).


----------



## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

I answered "so is mine" though TBH it was DD1 who was a HN baby (she's a fairly average though very very smart/active 5yo now). DD2 is the mellowest baby alive.

It wasn't until i had DD2 that i realised that DD1 was HN. Yes, apparently it is NOT normal for a baby to scream, in arms, for 5 hours every day for 4 months (and yes i had her checked out multiple times, and no she did not have colic/allergies/reflux/any of the other things they checked for, she just cried a lot). Nor is it normal for Mama to have psychosis due to sleep deprivation. Nor is it normal for a 10 week old baby to remember for DAYS where the fun but unsuitable thing you took off them was put and cry every time they are near it... I could go on.

If people want to believe i am scraping about for a label for some sense of self-justification then that's up to them, i really could not care less! You don't know it until you live it and once you live it you won't be judging anymore!


----------



## hildare (Jul 6, 2009)

didn't read all the responses yet, but just wanted to say.. yes, i have a high-needs baby. i am not a lover of labels, but it makes a long story short for the purposes of explaining things. i mean, would you rather read/hear something like:

"I had to get the lactation nurse to come every single time i fed dd the 5 days we were in the hospital and then i had to walk around with her in the moby every single second that i was awake or she would scream and she still wakes up every hour or so to nurse all night long and she won't let us put her down most of the time though it's getting better still at 17 months and she needs constant focus because she won't be content to play by herself etc etc etc"

or

"our high needs child does xyz.."


----------



## SweetPotato (Apr 29, 2006)

I have to say, I'm surprised and disappointed by how judgemental many of the responses are. To be honest, feeling that kind of judgement irl has been one of the saddest, most isolating things that I've ever encountered-- a mom who is up to her eyebrows trying to do what she believes is best for her challenging child could really use support and kind words/thoughts. I had thought that I was entering a sisterhood of mothers after I gave birth, and while many are understanding, there are many who seem to make judgements about my child and my parenting based on only the most superficial observations or interactions. It stinks.

I have to agree with the numerous posters who said that it's impossible for outsiders to know all the aspects of a parent/child pair, everything that is being dealt with at home, in the car, at night, all the preparations, etc. I haven't necessarily called my child "high needs," but would definitely consider her spirited, and we definitely seem to have "more" to deal with when it comes to night time, separation, intensity, and sensivity. I think a lot is her personality, some of which is similar to issues that I have dealt with myself (so I can feel some empathy for her anxieties rather than seeing it as manipulation). Parenting her the way that I believe is best for her can be draining, and behaviors that others judge poorly may be huge positive steps for us. I'm sure that many other mamas deal with harder situations than ours, but that doesn't negate my experience, or somehow make me a crappy mom for being less-than-zen about motherhood at all times.


----------



## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

I have never heard the term high-needs to label a child IRL. I voted that I think "wow that must be tough" because what's it to me to judge how other people are assessing their situation?

Now, I do SEE children who are more high-needs than mine, but I don't hear the label. If I were to describe these children I would probably use the term spirited, emotional, or, in a less kind moment, needy. I am speaking of children here, not babies.


----------



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

My older dd was very high needs when little, and I usually used the words "intense" or "emotional" irl. She's still intense and emotional, but I don't think "high needs" fits her at 9. She's pretty self sufficient and really well behaved now. But it was a struggle getting there and while I think it's possible to misjudge neediness as all babies and toddlers have fairly high needs, some are just more intense, and it isn't an attention seeking thing. Attention is the last thing i wanted. wasn't aware of just how intense she was until I had my second. I'm not sure if she's super easy or if it's just because I was expecting the experience I had with my first, but things are crazy relaxed this time around.


----------



## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

"I dislike "spirited" to describe intense, confident, or demanding children..."

Me too. I interpret it is as the hippie word for "brat." That may be my own limitation, but I appear to be stuck with it.


----------



## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Smithie*
> 
> "I dislike "spirited" to describe intense, confident, or demanding children..."
> 
> Me too. I interpret it is as the hippie word for "brat." That may be my own limitation, but I appear to be stuck with it.


That's how I hear it too.

Years ago, it meant "thinks differently". Like Anne of Green Gables. She was exasperating sometimes, but always kind, and thoughtful. Never mean or snotty. She was just curious, and always getting into something.

Now I hear it, and think "oh, great... another kid I don't want in my house".


----------



## beenmum (Nov 29, 2010)

I think that their child must be high needs or they woudlnt be saying it.

Now if it was special needs,then I think their child is special needs.


----------



## Natalie12 (Nov 11, 2005)

When I hear that, I honestly think "How can I help that parent?" I have a high needs five year old who behaves beautifully at school and for other people. I'm sure that people think I'm exaggerating when I say that she's high needs, because the outside doesn't see it.

The next time someone says that, please don't judge. My daughter takes every ounce of energy I have. YOu never know the full situation.


----------



## beenmum (Nov 29, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SweetPotato*
> 
> I have to say, I'm surprised and disappointed by how judgemental many of the responses are. To be honest, feeling that kind of judgement irl has been one of the saddest, most isolating things that I've ever encountered-- a mom who is up to her eyebrows trying to do what she believes is best for her challenging child could really use support and kind words/thoughts. I had thought that I was entering a sisterhood of mothers after I gave birth, and while many are understanding, there are many who seem to make judgements about my child and my parenting based on only the most superficial observations or interactions. It stinks.


Yes, me too. I assume that the child must be high needs, why else would the parent say it?

Munchausen parents, as mentioned, dont say thier child is high needs. No their child is deathly ill, sick or severely medically disabled. Not high needs. MSBP parents can not handle high needs kids. The kids they pray on are under 2 and non verbal and generally complacient or the charade woudlnt work.

Just like my kids are disabled. Why else would I say it if it wasnt true? I know I get alot of "But she doesnt look blind, autistic, disabled etc..." which I find disturbing. Whose job is it to decide that my kid isnt disabled b/c she doesnt look it?


----------



## beenmum (Nov 29, 2010)

Just a quick thought, has he been tested for reflux disease? Those are the Hallmarks of reflux and they can be treated with medication and THEN life style changes (sleeping posistion etc). But any actual change is not going to make a darn bit of difference without medicine.

A sleep study and a PH probe will dx reflux in toddler/infants. I have 2 with reflux. My 11 year old still cries and screams and holds her stomache and wakes up 25 times a night with it at times.


----------



## beenmum (Nov 29, 2010)

Seriously? You're equating someone with an SID child to a MSBP perpertator??????

MSBP parent dont call their kids high needs, they call them deathly ill, medically disabled or something equally medically based and severe.

Kids with oral fixations are dealing with something concerning. They constantly put objects into their mouths, mouth dangerous things such as baby powder, soap, pencils, metal, ink, chalk..... and can not process actual food appropriately. Its a real issue. Not osmehting made up b/c someone wants attention.

I applaud parents who actually care for their childrens emotional and physcial needs.


----------



## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *beenmum*
> 
> Just a quick thought, has he been tested for reflux disease? Those are the Hallmarks of reflux and they can be treated with medication and THEN life style changes (sleeping posistion etc). But any actual change is not going to make a darn bit of difference without medicine.
> 
> A sleep study and a PH probe will dx reflux in toddler/infants. I have 2 with reflux. My 11 year old still cries and screams and holds her stomache and wakes up 25 times a night with it at times.


agree. I'm amazed that you haven't tried medication for all this! Or a sleep study or anything!


----------



## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Well, DH is on the phone now with EI. I am really anxious about getting him evaluated (for some reason I feel like we're inviting the gov't into our lives???) but I guess we'll have an appt and see what they say.

I haven't medicated him or done a sleep study because I keep hearing OVER and OVER that it's normal, he'll grow out of it, I'm over-reacting, he's fine, etc. Not to mention I have a HUGE issue with the medical establishment that is far beyond the scope of this thread... and we need to switch doctors because ours does not seem to take anything seriously (which at first was great, not having someone over-react about little things, but now seems to be problematic...)


----------



## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

I really dislike the term spirited as well. I try not to say this, because I hate labeling my son-- and was really against saying it in teh baby days. But... after having my daughter, and seeing more kids, if you have to call him something, high needs is it. When he was younger, I used to say he was just opinionated.


----------



## scottishmommy (Nov 30, 2009)

Wow, I'm shocked by how many people think the high needs label is overused, or that there is no such thing as high needs. I have only met two families IRL who have high needs babies....and those little turkeys ARE high needs. My SILs kid didn't stop crying for a YEAR. Their nanny quit because of it. And SIL knows kids; she's a pediatric OT. None of my friends with normal babies even comment on their temperament. IDK, maybe I hang with a really stoic crowd.
I do think that nowadays people are probably more likely to get kids treated for SPD or reflux because there are more treatments available. There's no reason to let a kid suffer if they are in pain or unable to handle stimulation. Heck I have a really easy, but extremely active kid. My OT SIL gave me a ton of great ideas to keep DD happy and engaged. It helped a lot with some of her aggression issues. Her temper tantrums stopped immediately, so did hitting mommy. Of course I wouldn't pay to have her seen by an OT because, like I said, she's as normal as toddlers get, but it was nice to get a couple free pointers.


----------



## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

The label "high needs" is over used. There are parents who use the term to describe a child, then admit "he/she is usually so calm and laid back" five minutes later. So which is it? The misuse/overuse of the label just adds fuel to the idea that "high needs" doesn't exist and a child is either normal or has other issues affecting them. I do think that parents who's children are high needs have a right to argue that the term is overused when they are used to hearing things like "Oh, he wakes up twice a night still, he is so high needs" or "my daughter is high needs, she won't eat her bananas unless it's whole... What? Other things she does? no that's it, but is just sooooo tough on me" while their own child is clingy, up 4 or 5 times a night, won't eat anything except specific food made a specific way, and prone to tantrums when their needs aren't met perfectly.


----------



## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

As for spirited. I have no problems with that term. I like that term. But then again both kids in this house are spirited, and so is one adult (the other one often finds himself in need of a little piece and quiet...)


----------



## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MusicianDad*
> 
> The label "high needs" is over used. There are parents who use the term to describe a child, then admit "he/she is usually so calm and laid back" five minutes later. So which is it? The misuse/overuse of the label just adds fuel to the idea that "high needs" doesn't exist and a child is either normal or has other issues affecting them. I do think that parents who's children are high needs have a right to argue that the term is overused when they are used to hearing things like "Oh, he wakes up twice a night still, he is so high needs" or "my daughter is high needs, she won't eat her bananas unless it's whole... What? Other things she does? no that's it, but is just sooooo tough on me" while their own child is clingy, up 4 or 5 times a night, won't eat anything except specific food made a specific way, and prone to tantrums when their needs aren't met perfectly.


I was looking at another board, and I just discovered this.....

To me, "high needs" is totally different than "needy" or "clingy". Many parents use "High needs" when the child is just going through a clingy or demanding phase. I've had daycare parents say "he's very high needs", then I get them and they are perfectly normal.... maybe more demanding, but not high needs. Some kids are just more work than others. But, some kids REALLY have high needs.


----------



## Lucy Alden (Jun 15, 2009)

If a mom tells me she has a high needs baby she has my sympathy and understanding. I had a high needs (although I called her sensitive) baby. I got all the lame judgement and was told if I'd only do x, y or z she wouldn't be this way. You know what, those people can bite me. They weren't living my life and they weren't around my DD 24/7.

At the end of the day moms just want to be heard and understood. We want to know that we are good moms, we have good children and that things will get easier.

And if someone has useful input or good suggestions, by all means share it. But leave the judgement and holier-than-thou attitude at the door.


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nextcommercial*
> 
> I was looking at another board, and I just discovered this.....
> 
> To me, "high needs" is totally different than "needy" or "clingy". Many parents use "High needs" when the child is just going through a clingy or demanding phase. I've had daycare parents say "he's very high needs", then I get them and they are perfectly normal.... maybe more demanding, but not high needs. Some kids are just more work than others. But, some kids REALLY have high needs.


I could see that. Right now, we say dd2 is being high maintenance, but we mean it in a strictly "at the moment" sense. She's nursing more at 23 months than any of my others were at 12, wants me to hold her, carry her or be led by her (by one finger) most of the day, "interlopes" (dh's term, but I kind of like it) when I'm snuggling with dh or hugging one of the other kids or whatever, and still nurses at night enough to negatively impact my sleep fairly substantially. It's a rough phase...but it's also a totally normal toddler phase, and I'd never call her "high needs", yk? I could see someone using the term that way, though, especially if they didn't have any other kids to compare/contrast against.


----------



## AllyRae (Dec 10, 2003)

I'm conflicted on this. There are for sure high needs babies...I had 2 of them (1 of them screamed for hours a day for months and had a whole host of autism symptoms as an infant, and then as a toddler was diagnosed with autism & sensory processing disorder, and to this day still has those diagnoses, and the other one was adopted, screamed 20 hours out of every day for several months, and was eventually diagnosed with Reactive Attachment Disorder and Selective Mutism). I've seen 'high needs' used to refer to babies who like to be carried a lot (even my non-special needs baby didn't want to be put down! Totally normal!), babies who nurse all the time (again, totally normal...babies have tiny stomachs), or don't sleep through the night (even at 2, my typical child doesn't sleep through the night, so again, perfectly normal). I think that attributing "high needs" to a baby's perfectly normal behaviors makes infancy pathological. I think what people would consider "low needs" (doesn't need to be carried all the time, is very quiet, eats on a schedule, sleeps through the night from the start, etc.) is very very rare, but people like to talk about that, and if the baby doesn't meet those impossibly high standards, it's called "high needs". When in reality, there are babies who are truly high needs...those who have special more rare circumstances such as colic, pre-diagnosed developmental disabilities, etc.

It's the same with sensory issues...EVERY child has some sensory issues...they do NOT all have sensory processing disorder. I've had to deal with SPD for 7 years...when my son first got diagnosed, it was an ultra-rare diagnosis, reserved for those that truly had issues processing sensory stimuli that drastically affected the child's development. Now, I visit some message boards or go to playgroups and it seems like 75% of the kids are diagnosed with "sensory issues". Not liking to be muddy, not eating vegetables, and hating to get your hair washed does not make your child a child with sensory processing disorder...it makes your child normal.

Maybe it bugs the crap out of me because when we're dealing with the 100th tantrum of the week because it's too loud and too bright and now head banging and full on meltdowns start so we can't even go out to church because of the hour long rage that happens and everyone's now staring at us, it doesn't help when every parent in the room says "oh, yeah, my kid has sensory issues too...I understand what you're going through." No. You don't. Not even fricken close. Not when the extent of your sensory issues is that your kid screams and refuses to eat broccoli (and if you think I'm joking, I've actually heard parents say their kid needs a referral to an OT for sensory issues because she doesn't like broccoli and screams when the soap gets in her eyes in the bath).

/vent.


----------



## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AllyRae*
> 
> I'm conflicted on this. There are for sure high needs babies...I had 2 of them (1 of them screamed for hours a day for months and had a whole host of autism symptoms as an infant, and then as a toddler was diagnosed with autism & sensory processing disorder, and to this day still has those diagnoses, and the other one was adopted, screamed 20 hours out of every day for several months, and was eventually diagnosed with Reactive Attachment Disorder and Selective Mutism). I've seen 'high needs' used to refer to babies who like to be carried a lot (even my non-special needs baby didn't want to be put down! Totally normal!), babies who nurse all the time (again, totally normal...babies have tiny stomachs), or don't sleep through the night (even at 2, my typical child doesn't sleep through the night, so again, perfectly normal). I think that attributing "high needs" to a baby's perfectly normal behaviors makes infancy pathological. I think what people would consider "low needs" (doesn't need to be carried all the time, is very quiet, eats on a schedule, sleeps through the night from the start, etc.) is very very rare, but people like to talk about that, and if the baby doesn't meet those impossibly high standards, it's called "high needs". When in reality, there are babies who are truly high needs...those who have special more rare circumstances such as colic, pre-diagnosed developmental disabilities, etc.
> 
> ...










I am sorry you are dealing with so much... I can't even imagine having TWO kids with such severe issues!!

One thing I noticed in your post though is that a lot of the things you mentioned as "not high needs" COULD be high-needs if you're not getting the whole picture -- and obviously, you _don't_ always get the whole picture. So if I say my DS doesn't STTN, you'll be like yeah, no big deal, most babies/toddlers don't. BUT when I explain what I mean by that (that he's up every 20-45mins all night long), it's a whole different story. If I tell you he might have SPD because he won't swallow raw carrots, OK no big deal, but if I also explain that he can't tolerate bright sun and loud noises and shuts down completely if we are outside near a highway, it takes on a whole new meaning. So I think it goes both ways -- many people don't understand what you're going through, but you don't necessarily get what they're going through either, you know?? This is part of what prompted me to start this post, that I was feeling that same sense of judging that I complained about others doing. Not saying you are judging, but that _I_ am struggling not to at times.

(And this is not to discredit everything you just said, because I do know there are people out there who think their kids have SPD just because they won't eat broccoli, and it is infuriating.)


----------



## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy*
> 
> (And this is not to discredit everything you just said, because I do know there are people out there who think their kids have SPD just because they won't eat broccoli, and it is infuriating.)


Also, I've never thought people meant their child had SPD when they say their child has "sensory issues." I assume they'd say they had SPD if that was the case. To my mind, "sensory issues" is the catch-all for those kids who are highly sensitive but on one side of a line when kids who are even more sensitive and on the other side are diagnosed as having SPD. And I assume when people say their child has high needs they mean without a diagnosable condition causing their behavior. Or a yet diagnosed problem. High needs and sensory issues are on a continuum which needs to be kept in mind. It isn't a black and white issue.


----------



## MaerynPearl (Jun 21, 2008)

My kids have been a handful lately... what some people would probably classify as "high needs" but they aren't high needs. They are normal needs. They are dealing with stress and reacting the way almost any child would.

I know some ladies who are in my same shoes who classify their kids as "high needs" although when deployment is over, their kid goes back to normal and suddenly "oh they're the easiest kid to raise ever!" Seriously?

Labels are thrown around way too much. I know some ladies with kids who are genuinely high needs. The other ladies would probably not even be able to handle a DAY with those children. But those high needs children have actual problems that may or may not have been diagnosed, they aren't just being children and reacting to the world around them.


----------



## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4evermom*
> 
> Also, I've never thought people meant their child had SPD when they say their child has "sensory issues." I assume they'd say they had SPD if that was the case. To my mind, "sensory issues" is the catch-all for those kids who are highly sensitive but on one side of a line when kids who are even more sensitive and on the other side are diagnosed as having SPD. And I assume when people say their child has high needs they mean without a diagnosable condition causing their behavior. Or a yet diagnosed problem. High needs and sensory issues are on a continuum which needs to be kept in mind. It isn't a black and white issue.


Agreed. I've definitely said one of my kids has sensory issues (he happens to love broccoli, btw ) and of course most kids have sensory issues of some sort at some time in their life - from things like not being okay with tags on their shirts to not wanting to touch something slimy. BUT, even though my kid hasn't been diagnosed with SPD, I feel like, as his mom and the mom to 3 other kids, plus someone who worked with various small children for years, that some of his issues are a bit extreme - to the point where they impact normal functioning at times. So, if I said, oh, he gets really loud vocally when he hears loud noises, it may seem like a typical kid thing - but that's just a tiny piece of the big picture.

I do have a kid (same kid) who has some special needs, but in no way are those minimized b/c tons of other parents want to use the term high needs. Heck, I don't even use it with him, even though he is most definitely a challenging child in many ways. I really, really don't care how other people want to label their kids, and don't pass judgment when they do, b/c I'm not the one parenting their kid!


----------



## capewell5 (Mar 31, 2010)

I think there is too much need to label kids these days. I have 3 kids but i'm only an expert on my kids. i have DS1 who was a very normal baby, easy, etc. Then DS2 who I & drs have considered high needs. He has a lot of sensory problems, had delayed speech, would shut down around everyone but us. Now he is 5 and has outgrown & caught up development wise but still shuts down in crowded places or around kids his age. Our DD on the other hand is just high maintenece lol.


----------



## physmom (Jun 15, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy*
> 
> One thing I noticed in your post though is that a lot of the things you mentioned as "not high needs" COULD be high-needs if you're not getting the whole picture -- and obviously, you _don't_ always get the whole picture. So if I say my DS doesn't STTN, you'll be like yeah, no big deal, most babies/toddlers don't. BUT when I explain what I mean by that (that he's up every 20-45mins all night long), it's a whole different story. If I tell you he might have SPD because he won't swallow raw carrots, OK no big deal, but if I also explain that he can't tolerate bright sun and loud noises and shuts down completely if we are outside near a highway, it takes on a whole new meaning. So I think it goes both ways -- many people don't understand what you're going through, but you don't necessarily get what they're going through either, you know?? This is part of what prompted me to start this post, that I was feeling that same sense of judging that I complained about others doing. Not saying you are judging, but that _I_ am struggling not to at times.
> 
> (And this is not to discredit everything you just said, because I do know there are people out there who think their kids have SPD just because they won't eat broccoli, and it is infuriating.)












If someone asks me on the spot why I suspect DD has sensory issues I might be a bit tongue tied (especially if DD is with me and I'm distracted making sure she behaves) or be hesitant to go into long detail (because I'm sure no one wants to hear the whole spiel). However, it's something that we have talked to our pediatrician and she agrees with us although we have yet to get an official diagnosis.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4evermom*
> 
> Also, I've never thought people meant their child had SPD when they say their child has "sensory issues." I assume they'd say they had SPD if that was the case. To my mind, "sensory issues" is the catch-all for those kids who are highly sensitive but on one side of a line when kids who are even more sensitive and on the other side are diagnosed as having SPD. And I assume when people say their child has high needs they mean without a diagnosable condition causing their behavior. Or a yet diagnosed problem. High needs and sensory issues are on a continuum which needs to be kept in mind. It isn't a black and white issue.


At the moment we say sensory issues because DD is definitely sensitive to a number of things. We have yet to get an official Dx (although we planning on talking to an OT in the near future) so until we do so we normally just say sensory issues. Also I think it is important to point out that it's a spectrum. FIL definitely has a lot of sensory issues to the point that even as an adult he'll throw up when someone is cooking meat (or have a panic attack), thankfully, DD doesn't seem to be that extreme but she definitely has her quirks.


----------



## AllyRae (Dec 10, 2003)

Oh, I agree that it *could* be. But I can't tell you the number of times my jaw's about hit the floor in shock when someone tells me they "understand what I'm dealing with...my kid has sensory issues/is high needs too" and then goes on to list a handful of things that are completely normal in children...not one thing on the list would be out of the ordinary--just things that are annoying, yes, but still in the realm of being pretty middle-of-the-road normal. I'm not even talking about people who say that and have kids who are in the realm of normal, but at the extremes. I'm talking about middle of the road normal...like the person I mentioned who said their kid doesn't sleep through the night so she's high needs...that mom said her infant woke up 2 or 3 times a night (before 6ish months old) and called that high needs. Uh, that's normal. That's expected. That's not even on the extreme end of normal! It's right smack in the middle of what kids are supposed to do. That in no way compares to a toddler who wakes up 2-3 times a night having extreme night terrors due to trauma issues (which is what this person was trying to 'understand what I was going through')

I think that a lot of people, who are not all on this site obviously, who say their kid has 'sensory issues' and mean the type of sensory issues that get you weekly therapies. And I know people personally who say sensory issues and actually attempt to go to an OT for them, only to get mad when the OT says those are normal issues and there is nothing going on, and that actual true sensory processing issues affect the child's development and are not just mere annoyances. I mean, I get that all kids have some type of sensory issue--all adults do too (I can NOT stand the feeling of chalk. At all. If I have to touch the kids' sidewalk chalk, I wrap a towel around it to pick it up because I can't stand to touch it. But I do not have SPD. I do not need an OT. I do not need a label. I just need to stay away from the dang chalk.). I get that it's frustrating. But one does not need to slap a label on annoying behaviors in an attempt to say they understand what it's like having special needs children...I mean, when almost every toddler I know has a label of 'sensory issues' or 'high needs', you start to wonder...it really can't be that every toddler I come into contact with in Ohio's drinking some funky water, you know?

ETA: Maybe it just irritates me more because I've been on the end of true diagnosed 'sensory issues' and 'high needs/special needs', multiple times. And I've also worked in the field. I've seen firsthand how there is a sizeable number of people that want to label their children's normal annoying behaviors. Although part of me wonders what else is going on...is the parent not getting enough support and is at the end of the rope and hopes that there is something going on that might at least make things make more sense? Are people just not used to normal kid behaviors because if you go on the internet, you either get worst case scenario or you get the people with freakishly mild mannered sleep through the night kids who talk a lot about how their kid did something way before it is actually age appropriate to do it? Or, are things like sensory issues and colic and autism and the like just talked about more, so more people are just hypersensitive to the symptoms and wonder if the annoying behavior is not really all that normal?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Spring Lily (Sep 26, 2006)

This thread has been so interesting. I have my own way of thinking of "high needs" and "spirited" and hadn't realized these were so controversial.

I think high needs is a certain combination of temperament and general sensitivity, that leads to Dr Sears' criteria. My first was that way as a baby, wouldn't sleep, constant inconsolable crying (kept bringing her to the doctor thinking something was wrong, it was so intense), needed to nurse 24/7, wouldn't let me put her down, even when she was asleep she had to be touching me--there was just no break. I remember her sleeping a foot away and having one leg stretched out to rest against my leg. If I tried to get up or roll over, it was like a car alarm went off in the bed next to me! Naps were all taken on top of me. I wore or carried her around constantly. When I found out I was having twins, I was terrified I'd end up with 2 more and I wasn't sure I'd survive!







DD is now just 5 and continues to be very passionate, emotional, sensitive, and...awake. Her friends love her passion and creativity, and tend to give her the lead when they're playing because of it. I don't really think of her as "high needs" anymore, but she's extremely sensitive.

I can see how having a disorder like autism or SPD could create the same list of experiences as Dr Sears' 12 traits, but I would still consider those kids "special needs" instead of "high needs." In the beginning though, how would you know the difference? Maybe just in retrospect. Also, I have 2 other highly sensitive children and neither were high needs. "Highly sensitive" is another label some people don't believe in and others overuse, but it has its own set of criteria and is very real--and not SPD or caused by "spoiling."

Sprited...now I consider kids who are very intense to be spirited. I know a couple of them. They're emotions are intense, they jump into everything headfirst, they require extra amounts of patience and skill to discipline. I don't consider them brats, more like very driven internally. The ones I know also were not high needs babies.

*crunchymommy*, I'm so sorry you're going through this. I'm really glad you are going ahead with the EI evaluation. You don't necessarily need a "delay" to get services, so try not to worry about that. If anything, this will allow you to rule out a disorder or else give you more information and support going forward. I hope you update after the evaluation, I'm thinking positively for you to get _some_ sort of answer or guidance.


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I actually looked at Dr. Sears criteria - finally. DD1 fit all of them, except for not being able to put her down. When she wanted to be held, she was going to be held...but there were times when she wanted to be put down NOW and made no bones about it. I also don't recall her being unusually separation sensitive, but it's hard to say, because she was melting down so much at that time, and I was pretty much always around, anyway, so I may not have picked up on it. And, she always wanted to nurse, but also acted like my breastmilk contained amphetamines or something. It wans't a soothing sort of process for either of us.

DS2, otoh...he's high needs (well, probably special needs) these days, but I don't think he fit any of those criteria as a baby...relaxed, easy going, STTN the day he was born (got woken up by the nurses to breastfeed, actually, which drove me nuts), nursed a lot, but more by having long, long feeds than eating super frequently. He was just...easy.


----------



## hasya (Jun 27, 2010)

I voted for yes, but over-used too.


----------



## craft_media_hero (May 15, 2009)

I would wonder in what way they meant that the child was high needs---does the child appear to need more attention than other kids that the parent is seeing? Do they need more help with independence stuff like getting dressed? More emotional outbursts?

What bothers me is how vague the term is.


----------



## AutumnAir (Jun 10, 2008)

YK, I was just thinking about this. I doubt that many parents of actual 'high needs' kids (if we're going by Dr. Sears' definition) would claim to know what it felt like to be a mom of a SN kid (unless their kid was also SN on top of HN) but we might have a bit more sympathy/empathy. Particularly if the SN or HN aren't immediately obvious, or are fairly easily attributed by strangers to 'brattiness' or 'poor parenting'.

I have an infinite amount of sympathy for SN moms - it's a hard, gruelling and often thankless task, and rarely do you have the hope (as you might with HN) that your kids will 'grow out of it'. But, as the mother of 2 HN kids, I have often felt it unfair that I was being judged by the same standards as other moms of 'normal' babies. I have had my share of poor parenting moments in public, but when you're trying to deal with a 3 year old who has violent melt-downs numerous times a day over things like 'the sun is shining and I wanted it to rain' and a baby who wakes every 20-40 minutes all night long so that you're hallucinating and suicidal with the lack of sleep (to mention only 2 of the issues I was dealing with) it hurts to know that you're being held up for comparison against moms whose babies wake once or twice a night and whose toddlers create the occasional fuss over getting the wrong colour cup - and who also have friends and family nearby who they can meet, talk to, drop the kids off with every once in a while...

I generally don't mention either DD's HN to anyone else, except friends and family who've seen it and know what I'm talking about. But I guess that at least some of the motivation behind people telling others that their kids are HN is that they're trying to express that they're not playing on a level playing field. It's infinitely easier to have patience with tantrums, to take the kids on outings, bake with them and so on - all the things that 'good' moms do - when you're getting at least the bare minimum of sleep for sanity, for example. Compare a well-rested mom with the severely sleep-deprived version of herself and you will see a radical difference in her abilities as a parent. (Ask me how I know!!) Compare a mom who's constantly on edge trying to avert/prevent/deal with/contain/control her toddler's multiple, violent outbursts with a mom whose toddler is generally quite well-behaved except for the occasional melt-down when over-tired or hungry - it's like trying to compare apples and oranges. Yet, we all do it. We make judgements about others based on snapshots, or small pieces of information about their lives, and frequently decide that they don't measure up.

Saying that your child is HN is likely a plea for lenience in that judgement. It might be a way to try to express that things in that parent's life are different from the 'ideal norm' which we tend to visualise when passing judgement on people. I very rarely make judgements about other parents any more, because having two HN kids has completely humbled me and taught me that you can never *really* know what's going on in other people's lives to cause them to make the decisions they do, or to react the way they do. Maybe it's not so much that the child is HN than that the parent is having a hard time meeting those needs for a whole host of potential reasons, but either way - the result is pretty much the same.


----------



## purplerose (Dec 27, 2010)

One of the hard things about having a high needs child is when the breastfeeding, cosleeping, and carrying is blamed. I was a huge promoter and supporter of those things, and look what happened when I did them with my baby! Just reinforced the outer families opinions on them! It didn't matter that I did the same thing with my first two and they were "easy" babies. You can't get it through to someone that you do those things so much with that child because you *have* to. That kind of life was not what I had expected or wanted. I didn't want to be tied down for the first year of her life. I didn't mention in my first post how it was to ride in the car with her. She literally screamed the entire time unless I sat there with my nipple in her mouth. I rarely went anywhere without my husband because I couldn't drive hearing the screaming and choking. I can't imagine what would have happened had I gone to work! She couldn't stay with her own grandmother she frequently saw without screaming. I never imagined a baby could be like that without there being something wrong. The other grandmother was scared to babysit, and didn't again until my daughter was about 6 or 7! I did NOT do this to my child, I did NOT make her that way, this is REAL. I had two babies 17 months apart, and this time they will be 9 years apart because the fear of having another high-needs baby was too great. I can still remember in the middle of the night telling my husband, "I will NEVER have another baby, this is hell and I could not do this again. I'm DONE." People thought having two babies together was bad...that was nothing compared to my #3 LOL

And reading what I wrote, it sounds like I'm a bad mother...I love my children, I love my high-needs child. It took a year to get pregnant with her, I didn't want anything more than her. I still love her, and I loved her through all that. It was just a very dark time for me, sleep-deprived, it drained me and in fact there were nights I was scared to sleep in case I sleepwalked and hurt her for crying and waking up. The first night she slept all night, at 16 months, I woke up the next morning and ran to her, thinking something happened to her. That night started my road to freedom...I was able to go grocery shopping at the 24/7 grocery after she went to bed at night. My husband was even able to get her to go to bed without keeping my breast home with him so I could meet a friend for dinner!


----------



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purplerose*
> 
> I had two babies 17 months apart, and this time they will be 9 years apart because the fear of having another high-needs baby was too great. I can still remember in the middle of the night telling my husband, "I will NEVER have another baby, this is hell and I could not do this again. I'm DONE." p>


Yeah I get this. After my oldest, who is my high needs kid, I swore I'd never have another baby. I just didn't think I could survive it again. We were finally ready to have another one . . . after 7 years! Luckily the little one is an easy child. If I'd had her first I might not have understood this issue, and I might have thought her temperament was due to my amazing parenting skillz. Lol. My kids were raised just the same, ebf, cosleeping, worn in slings, all that stuff, and yet they were and are completely different. We only have so much control.


----------



## physmom (Jun 15, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purplerose*
> 
> One of the hard things about having a high needs child is when the breastfeeding, cosleeping, and carrying is blamed. I was a huge promoter and supporter of those things, and look what happened when I did them with my baby! Just reinforced the outer families opinions on them! It didn't matter that I did the same thing with my first two and they were "easy" babies. You can't get it through to someone that you do those things so much with that child because you *have* to. That kind of life was not what I had expected or wanted. I didn't want to be tied down for the first year of her life. I didn't mention in my first post how it was to ride in the car with her. She literally screamed the entire time unless I sat there with my nipple in her mouth.


We've had almost identical experiences. I can't tell you how many times DD's behavior got blamed on cosleeping and breastfeeding. It was incredibly frustrating because part of my family is very mainstream and I constantly had to hear how we were making her behavior worse.







Add to that that DD is an entirely different kid when I'm not around so than they had "proof" that it was all me. Here's the thing, though, DD is now weaned (but still co-sleeps) and her behaviors have just shifted to other areas. She's not demanding to nurse all the time but she's eating soap, trying to suck on shampoo, biting people, her toes, and toys when she never did that before! Oh, and car rides used to just be her screaming until she threw up. One ride that we had I was shocked about how many times a kid could throw up in one ride....







DH doesn't have a license so the nipple in her mouth wouldn't have been that easy!


----------



## beenmum (Nov 29, 2010)

The thing is this: from a professional POV they are more likily to intervene with a family who is not treating a condition such as reflux then they are someone who is treating the issue with medical supervision,

The issue becomes when the parents want to diverge from the common treatments and into more holistic treatments.

Anyways, that my professional POV on the issue.

It DOES feel like our DD's doctors are in our parenting relationships. Her nurses came eevryday at any hour, some stayed overnight. We had very little privacy in our parenting b/c of all her therapists.

Reflux isnt like that. They do a few tests and then hand you the rx for meds. If its really severe they may recommand surgery.

However, the damage that reflux can do to a childs lungs and throat are serious and life threatening at times. Such as stopping breathing or airway obstructions and throat damage. So it IS worth having the drs in your life for a short period of time until its sorted out.


----------



## kythe (Dec 20, 2007)

I never realized the terms "high-needs" and "spirited" were so controversial. I've never been bothered by people who say their child is high-needs when going through a normal phase. This doesn't usually hurt anything, so I don't see a purpose in arguing semantics. I don't spend a lot of time dissecting other people's perceptions and judging whether I think their situation is really high needs or not.

It bothers me much more to hear people say that there are no high needs children, or that all babies are high needs (way to pretend no one has any real problems), or that poor parenting causes it, or if only you do this and this (insert parenting technique here), it will all be fine. What expecially grates on me is that the people who know the least seem to talk the loudest about their proposed "solutions" to the child's behavioral issues.

I know there are several other people here who have said things like this also, but my youngest screamed (not cried, actually screamed) for several hours a day for his first few months. I swore I would never have another child after him, and I haven't. Often in public I heard comments said behind my back but meant to be within my hearing, such as "some people shouldn't have children if they can't care for them" or "there are no bad babies, only bad parents". I've had total strangers come up to me and give advice on what they think his problem is and what I should do about it. Then there are other, kind people, who make reassuring statements that some babies are fussy but they will grow out of it in due time. Except mine didn't grow out of it either.

In years since he has followed a developmental pediatrician and is in special ed at school for sensory integration disorder and several mild developmental delays. But as a baby without a diagnosis, I was the worst parent ever, no matter what I did or didn't do. This is not something I ever want to go through again, and I have trouble even reading some of the posts here because I've become so sensitive to the topic.


----------



## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kythe*
> 
> I never realized the terms "high-needs" and "spirited" were so controversial


the only reason they catch my attention in a negative way is when it's use to describe a child who CLEARLY has issues that require professional intervention but the parent is clinging to the 'high needs' or 'spirited' label as if that makes it OK. And honestly I see it on MDC more than anywhere. It's terrible to think of a child going without much-needed help because the parent has a Dr. Sears label instead. There almost seems to be a badge of honor to have a preschooler nursing 30 times a day and night but to me that's a child in distress. IDK. I don't think I'm explaining it very well.


----------



## quaz (May 24, 2005)

Deleted


----------



## JudiAU (Jun 29, 2008)

I voted "that must be tough" and think of it in terms of "that child requires more time and energy than mine." I do think labels are overused, but they are overused throughout modern parenting, not just within the natural parenting community. I've met babies and toddlers who do have more fussy/high needs behavior they *need* more sling time and more nursing and more touch and just more parenting. My kids get all of those things but are just middle of the pack in terms of needs. They might use a sling to go to sleep but they can always be transferred. And sometimes the issue is whether the child must become more flexible because the mother is not always there.

I do think of high needs/fussy as being something a child outgrows. Ongoing issues after I don't know 3 or 4 are probably different.


----------



## Calliope84 (Aug 19, 2010)

I personally like the words spirited and sensitive. I never even heard of the term "High Needs" until I read The Baby Book by Dr. Sears, and even then I didn't decide DD was until she was 2 months or so. She does fit all 12 criteria for that label. I honestly think I just have a very bright and sensitive child. She seems to feel every emotion really strongly and she needs a lot of stimulation. She is developmentally behaving like an 8 month old in a lot of ways, but she is only 4.5 months old. She seems to get frustrated a lot when she can't do something. I do suck at multi-tasking, though, so I tend to feel overwhelmed more easily than some other mothers might...

I also prefer to call her spirited and sensitive because some people, like my mother, were calling her spoiled /brat/ has a temper, etc. and I don't feel like putting negative labels like that on a baby. Her drive to discover new things and her sensitivity will be great qualities when she is older, I am sure.

Also... she is allergic to dairy and soy and maybe I have missed another allergen. I probably should keep dropping things from my diet to see if it helps. But there are times during the day where DD is awesome and fun and isn't crying, so I don't know if it is allergies still.


----------



## Calliope84 (Aug 19, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prothyraia*
> 
> I would have thought "all babies are high needs" during the time between when I was pregnant with my first until a little after my second child was born. I read the descriptions of "high needs" babies and thought that it just sounded like what all babies are like.
> 
> ...


lmao I know what you mean.


----------



## frugalmum (Nov 5, 2009)

I selected a minority response---

"The parent(s) just need to ____ (set some boundaries and limits, try a routine or schedule, etc.)"

Because I have found with my children (2 dxed with PDD and one who is just plain difficult), setting boundaries, having strict consequences, and keeping as much of a routine as possible (even when they don't like it) has made a world of difference.


----------



## Calliope84 (Aug 19, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frugalmum*
> 
> I selected a minority response---
> 
> ...


That seems like something I might have to do when DD gets older.. but what do you do when they are 5 months old?


----------



## Minalas (Feb 24, 2011)

I voted 'That must be so tough.'
Reading parenting forums and listening to other parents, I mostly came to the conclusion that my kids are super easy. Dynamic, spirited, non napping, serious trouble and clingy at times, but wow, some parents have to work soo much harder. Most of my friends practice AP, so it can't be all my brilliant parenting. And their parenting is not notably worse than mine. Children sure come with different temperments.


----------



## kassabee (Apr 8, 2011)

When I hear a parent state their child is "high needs" my automatic thought process is that their child must have been diagnosed with a learning, mental, or developmental disability.


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I suspect that I'm going to have to tighten up our routine and structure, frugalmom. I'm working on it now. Unfortunately, that's going to mean that being a SAHM just completely sucks. I hate having a strict schedule and routine, and being free of that was the best thing about getting out of the work force. It's actually depressing me to contemplate having to switch to a more regimented way of life, but I think being a good mom to ds2 is going to mean being someone else. *sigh*


----------



## mysweetboys (May 18, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frugalmum*
> 
> I selected a minority response---
> 
> ...


Ummm... of course consistent boundaries, limits, consequences, routine *help* most children, including "high needs" or "spirited" children, but in my (personal and professional) experience that does not solve the issues for kids whose needs are outside of the "typical" range! We have been incredibly consistent, but both of our kids are still "high needs" in different ways. I think statements like the above may lay the blame on parents for issues that the parents are, in fact, dealing with very effectively.


----------



## belltree (Mar 10, 2009)

I believe if a parent calls their child high needs, than this is what they feel to be true in this moment in time and space. I had not realized that there is such a plethora of emotions and judgment involved when it comes to this description of a child. I thought it just means the child requires more attention than others and it takes a lot more effort to figure out what makes and keeps the child happy and centered.

Some high need children turn out to be calm and quiet children, sometimes they just cannot wait to be able to move themselves into the correct position, others cannot wait to communicate with the world, and then there are others that are colicky or in pain, others are more fearful children, some are just more attached, some are extremly picky eaters, others need more holding and comfort, and then there are others where there seems nothing you can do to calm the child.

I also believe that every child goes through times or phases when they are high needs and the parents are overwhelmed. I have seen and met children that are just more demanding, i.e. high needs, than others. The problem I have is when parents think that their particular parenting style is all one needs to try to have such a happy, easy, and centered child. I don't believe that parenting has much to do with a child being high needs or not. There might be some things that can help along the way (carrying the child, bouncing it, structure, enough sleep, enough food), but I don't believe that there is a general solution that will fit every child or family. Most importantly the parents will have to figure out a way to stay sane and healthy while raising their child.


----------



## sunnygir1 (Oct 8, 2007)

I had to vote "other" because it depends on the context. I pretty much only hear the term on these boards, and my response to its use generally depends on the context. I think it can be a useful term, is probably overused, and in itself isn't necessarily very helpful/descriptive.

I am starting to think that AP babies/toddlers are high needs and sleep trained, formula fed, disposable diapered, etc. babies/toddlers are not. I'm totally over-simplifying, and kind of tongue-in-cheek. But, I mean, REALLY -- I have had two horrible sleepers, after two tough pregnancies, and it sucks. My kids have been easy in other ways, but sleep is NOT one of them. But then again, they have been pretty good nappers, which others don't get.

My nephew was/is a tough kid, and I lived with him until he was 4. We used to call him, "Mr. Constant Supervision" and "Señor Destructo" and we had mantras like, "sit down or get down". He's 15 now and a really cool kid, but still a fair amount of trouble ; )

Anyway, I'm babbling.


----------



## Calliope84 (Aug 19, 2010)

Well, according to my mother my attachment parenting style has caused DD to be this way. Could it be so? DH and I both feel like she was born this way and that without AP it would be even harder for us with her...but who knows?


----------



## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Calliope84*
> 
> Well, according to my mother my attachment parenting style has caused DD to be this way. Could it be so? DH and I both feel like she was born this way and that without AP it would be even harder for us with her...but who knows?


I found AP because it was the only way I could parent my baby. My second, "easy" baby was parented the same way - except that she wasn't in arms as much, because she didn't scream the second I laid her down. I also rarely nursed her to sleep, because she liked to go to sleep on her own (she was one of those babies that I was convinced didn't actually exist - you know, the kind you can put down drowsy and they actually drift peacefully off to sleep?) Anyhow, I don't think AP in anyway causes high needs/sensitive/"difficult" babies.


----------



## belltree (Mar 10, 2009)

I do think, and I believe this is supported by research that children that nurse through the night wake more often and hence the sleep of mother and child is more interrupted, but the quality of the sleep is better. There are bottle fed children that need a bottle 2 times a night, that need to be held and rocked to sleep. There are children that are nursed to bed and that wean themselves and that just sleep through the night.

I also have a book at home (by the Remo Largo) summarizing his finding of two longitudinal studies of children from pregnancy to their teens. And he clearly shows that there is a pretty large percentage of children that sleep sometimes or even every night in their parents bed. The percentages peak at age 3 and 4 where 38% sleep some nights in their parents bed and 13% every night). And the Swiss are definitey not know for their co-sleeping habits. He also charted night wakings with a similar trend (at 2 years 45% of children wake some nights, 22% wake every night, and these numbers are increasing until age 4!).

I think a lot of people just lie about their children's sleep habits avoiding comments, or they have different definitions. People don't call it co-sleeping if the child has its own bed, but visits every night around 2am.


----------



## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

i chose 'that must be so tough' - most of the time. maybe on one or two occasions have i thought otherwise.

because its either the children are high needs or the parents are overwhelmed. i understand both viewpoints. i have seen parents with HNs kids (yeah 3 of them) and they have completely AMAZED me by their calm composure. they are my heroes as i have never seen the mom raise her voice. ever.

initially i used to think - you have no idea what you are talking about... but having volunteered with teen mothers and other parents... with life how it is now and no support i can see how overwhelming parenting can be. esp. the guilt factor.

there are many times i read between the lines here on this board. and instead of jumping up and saying hey mama you have no idea what HNs is - instead of telling them how to help their child - i ask them what they are doing for THEMSELVES. and sure enough - nothing. not even a break for 30 secs to just sit down and drink a glass of cold water.


----------



## Spring Lily (Sep 26, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frugalmum*
> 
> I selected a minority response---
> 
> ...


How old are you assuming these kids are? Because we'd realized by age *3 months* that our DD was high needs.

Saying that the issue is parenting is in effect blaming and judging the parents for their child's temperament.


----------



## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spring Lily*
> 
> How old are you assuming these kids are? Because we'd realized by age *3 months* that our DD was high needs.










i was warned in TWO days by the nurses at the hospital when dd refused to stop crying (the nurses had taken her to give me a break to recover from my csection and dd would have nothing of it. finally i got her and like a light switch the moment she changed arms pin drop silence). they didnt use the term but did tell me in a sweet way (they were the kindest, sweetest people) that oh boy i have one of those children and i shall have my hands full.

when my coworker heard dd thru the phone while i was requesting her if she could bring me her swing that she had offered the next day - she left right away and i had the swing within an hour.

AND... yes any structure - even today - means T R O U B L E. spring break and its immediately back to bed at midnight and wake up at 10 am.


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I'm noticing several people talking about the ability of the parents to cope, and that's a factor, too. I consider ds2 to be high needs (technically, I think he's still-undiagnosed SN, but that's similar from a coping standpoint). However, there are definitely much higher needs children around! While there are days when I feel as though he's the most difficult child ever, I'm totally aware that that's not even close to being true. However, I'm also not getting enough sleep, and at this point, my sleep deprivation, fatigue, etc. can be measured in years (with a few short periods where I got enough rest), not months. I've been anemic through all of my last four pregnancies, and was severely anemic after we lost Aaron (high blood loss, although I didn't require transfusion). I've had a lot of issues (PTSD and depression) around my multiple c-sections. I've had a long, hard haul to get back on my feet after we lost Aaron. I have long-term nerve damage in my pelvis (dates back to the c-section when I had ds2), as well as a severe diastasis, both of which affect my physical well-being in a variety of ways I strongly suspect that I have some kind of thyroid and/or adrenal issue going on. So...ds2 is a handful, and would be a handful, no matter what. But, he probably wouldn't be as overwhelming to someone with more energy, both mental and physical, than I currently possess, yk?

Parenting was a whole different ballgame when I had ds1...I was only 24 when he was born, and hadn't had quite the reproductive butt-kicking that I eventually experienced. I just has SO much more energy. (I often feel that I've been tired since I got pregnant with dd1.) These things do make a difference. When someone says their baby/child is high needs, I don't think of that in terms of "that kids seems so much easier than dd1 as a baby!". I think of it in terms of how much the baby/child needs vs. how much the parent has to give. That's really the key equation, imo. If a child needs more than the parents have to give, then that child is going to be "high needs" for that/those parent(s), even if another parent wouldn't use the same terminology.


----------



## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> I'm noticing several people talking about the ability of the parents to cope, and that's a factor, too. I consider ds2 to be high needs (technically, I think he's still-undiagnosed SN, but that's similar from a coping standpoint). However, there are definitely much higher needs children around! While there are days when I feel as though he's the most difficult child ever, I'm totally aware that that's not even close to being true. However, I'm also not getting enough sleep, and at this point, my sleep deprivation, fatigue, etc. can be measured in years (with a few short periods where I got enough rest), not months. I've been anemic through all of my last four pregnancies, and was severely anemic after we lost Aaron (high blood loss, although I didn't require transfusion). I've had a lot of issues (PTSD and depression) around my multiple c-sections. I've had a long, hard haul to get back on my feet after we lost Aaron. I have long-term nerve damage in my pelvis (dates back to the c-section when I had ds2), as well as a severe diastasis, both of which affect my physical well-being in a variety of ways I strongly suspect that I have some kind of thyroid and/or adrenal issue going on. So...ds2 is a handful, and would be a handful, no matter what. But, he probably wouldn't be as overwhelming to someone with more energy, both mental and physical, than I currently possess, yk?
> 
> Parenting was a whole different ballgame when I had ds1...I was only 24 when he was born, and hadn't had quite the reproductive butt-kicking that I eventually experienced. I just has SO much more energy. (I often feel that I've been tired since I got pregnant with dd1.) These things do make a difference. When someone says their baby/child is high needs, I don't think of that in terms of "that kids seems so much easier than dd1 as a baby!". I think of it in terms of how much the baby/child needs vs. how much the parent has to give. That's really the key equation, imo. If a child needs more than the parents have to give, then that child is going to be "high needs" for that/those parent(s), even if another parent wouldn't use the same terminology.


That is totally true for me too. I mostly blame my own medical and psychological issues for the the problems I have with DS, even though I *KNOW* without a doubt (and have had lots of outside confirmation) that he is an unusually 'needy' kids anyway. I think even if I had an "easy" baby I'd have a tough time though. I had said a million times that I feel I was just not cut out to be a mom. I don't doubt I could've been a great mom if I had my health back and didn't feel... well, mentally unstable... It's really hard to figure out what is me and what is him and what is just chronic sleep deprivation. It all twists together into a big mess. And I could also really use a house cleaner, and if I could quit my WAH job things might be easier... but still, none of that would change the way DS is, and in some ways our individual issues complement each other well (i.e. it's easier to stay in bed & nurse him through his naps like he needs to, because I wouldn't likely have the energy to do something else anyway....)


----------



## Lucy Alden (Jun 15, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> When someone says their baby/child is high needs, I don't think of that in terms of "that kids seems so much easier than dd1 as a baby!". I think of it in terms of how much the baby/child needs vs. how much the parent has to give. That's really the key equation, imo. If a child needs more than the parents have to give, then that child is going to be "high needs" for that/those parent(s), even if another parent wouldn't use the same terminology.


I think this is key. High needs is not a medical diagnosis. It is a way for parents to describe their situation with their baby/child. An experienced mom with loads of help and support may not consider a baby who cries a lot, nurses 20 times a day, can't be put down, etc. high needs because they have the emotional, mental and physical reserves to meet those needs. On the other hand a less experienced mom who is isolated from help and support may consider a baby who wakes twice a night high needs. I think that most moms that tell me their child is high needs are looking for support. They want want someone to validate that parenting is rough. I think they also want validation that their baby/child is good and so are they. And yes, of course there are those parents who are just looking for attention or a label. But I think most are honestly looking for sympathy and understanding. As a fellow mom, that's what I'm going to give them.


----------



## Galatea (Jun 28, 2004)

We have had very easy kids, for which I am grateful.


----------



## CI Mama (Apr 8, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lucy Alden*
> 
> I think this is key. High needs is not a medical diagnosis. It is a way for parents to describe their situation with their baby/child. An experienced mom with loads of help and support may not consider a baby who cries a lot, nurses 20 times a day, can't be put down, etc. high needs because they have the emotional, mental and physical reserves to meet those needs. On the other hand a less experienced mom who is isolated from help and support may consider a baby who wakes twice a night high needs. I think that most moms that tell me their child is high needs are looking for support. They want want someone to validate that parenting is rough. I think they also want validation that their baby/child is good and so are they. And yes, of course there are those parents who are just looking for attention or a label. But I think most are honestly looking for sympathy and understanding. As a fellow mom, that's what I'm going to give them.












As a parent who had a rough start, it was soooo hard to communicate what I was going through and to seek & find the support I needed to get through. I realize now that I was having a more extreme experience than most parents, and a lot of people just couldn't relate to me. But yeah, how do you tell someone, "Parenting is totally kicking my ass and I desperately need some help or at least some reassurance that I'm going to survive this?"

I personally never described my DD as "high needs" but if anyone asked, "How do you like being a mom?" I'd usually answer: "It's intense."

And by that I meant: "I didn't expect parenting to be easy, but holy cow I had no idea it would be this hard. Labor & delivery alone was the most difficult physical & emotional experience I've been through to date. I am more exhausted that I thought it was possible to be. My brain has become my worst enemy...all the work I've done through years of therapy is worthless right now because I have no reserves to keep my bats in my belfry. I feel crazy. Breastfeeding 10+ hours a day with a breast infection is completely draining and feels like shit. My DD is a miracle, but I feel entirely inadequate to care for her. Don't ask me about how I'm enjoying my 'babymoon' I don't know what that is. I'm not 'falling in love' with my baby, I'm living hour to hour, hoping that somehow I don't lose my last shreds of selfhood and erupt into an insane, explitive-screaming banshee who ought to be locked up."

I mean really, no one wants to hear that.

I have no idea if my DD is "high needs" but I'm pretty sure that *I* am.

By treading gingerly in conversation with other moms, I have discovered that I am part of a small sisterhood who have been through hell. I wouldn't wish my experience on anyone, but I'm also relieved to know that I'm not alone.

On another note, it has always struck me as ironic that Dr. Sears is the one who coined the term "high needs." His family just seems so glowingly perfect, the model AP family, with sort of a freakishly charmed existence. So if they had a HN kid, it must be real, right?


----------



## madskye (Feb 20, 2006)

I've never actually had anyone describe their kid as high needs to me, in real life. I've actually only seen the term used here. Probably because everyone here is familiar with Dr. Sears and it's his description--but I've always been unsure whether high needs was a medical term or a general term. I do notice a lot of posts that contradict themselves--for example, beginning with the descriptor "high needs" for their child, but then going on to say that 90% of the time the child is just fine. To me, if you're 90% fine--that doesn't really sound like high needs so at that point I start to doubt the poster's idea of high needs. My idea of high needs would be a child with colic or some kind of sustained sensory issue where the ratio was reversed and they were 90% of the time not fine. But that said--I'm not sure what the actual definition of high needs really is?


----------



## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *madskye*
> 
> I've never actually had anyone describe their kid as high needs to me, in real life. I've actually only seen the term used here. Probably because everyone here is familiar with Dr. Sears and it's his description--but I've always been unsure whether high needs was a medical term or a general term. I do notice a lot of posts that contradict themselves--for example, beginning with the descriptor "high needs" for their child, but then going on to say that 90% of the time the child is just fine. To me, if you're 90% fine--that doesn't really sound like high needs so at that point I start to doubt the poster's idea of high needs. My idea of high needs would be a child with colic or some kind of sustained sensory issue where the ratio was reversed and they were 90% of the time not fine. But that said--I'm not sure what the actual definition of high needs really is?


"High needs" as Dr. Sears uses it seems to be meant to describe a type of personality (so, it's not a medical term, though I suspect that some high-needs babies may have undiagnosed medical issues). See this for his description.

And I agree with your 90% thing. DS has improved a bit over the last year but while he was under a year, I would say he was calm & happy only 5-10% of the time. I can actually remember the 3-4 incidents during his first year where he was truly happy for 30mins or so straight, that's how rare it was.


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Yeah - that's kind of the way dd1 was. She wasn't actually unhappy that often (although more so than any of my others), but she was almost never calm. She bobbed around like a crazed chicken while nursing, and latched and broke off and latched and broke off constantly, because she was distracted by everything - I was still shooting milk everywhere when she was about 15 months old! She just wasn't ever content...unless she was on dh, in the Snugli (old one - soft carrier, and she was snuggled up to him, not facing out) and outdoors. She almost never relaxed around me at all...it was like she'd smell my milk and go ballistic. It was a really bizarre, and quite draining, experience. And, in retrospect, and looking at her now, I think she probably had some fairly major sensory issues, under the "over stimulated" umbrella, and has learned to manage them better. So, she did grow out of it, to some extent. She's still highly sensitive and kind of volatile, but not so...draining.

ETA: I would still consider dd1 high needs as a baby, but not to anywhere near the extent that some babies are. Dealing with your ds sounds utterly exhausting, crunchy_mommy!


----------



## waiting2bemommy (Dec 2, 2007)

I kind of feel like Storm Bride and a few others have said.....my own mental/physical state has a direct bearing on how I can deal with my kids.

I was fairly energetic, organized, and my entire world revolved around ds and no one else for the first year of his life. Now, after some major emotional upheavals, including a miscarriage, and after 4 years of continuous pregnancy, breastfeeding, or both simultaneously, and chronic sleep deprivation, I definitely struggle many days.

But, ds was recently diagnosed with Asperger's and ADHD so I know it's not all in my head----he IS more intense than the average kid. there are days when we are on our 395736th meltdown that I just sit down on the couch and watch in despair, wanting to yell, "why can't you just put on a sock, or pick up one freaking toy, or sit down in a chair on your butt for more than a nanosecond, without screeching and yelling and going bananas?"

Mainstream people often tell me that dd is 'needy" and "spoiled" because she wakes up several times a night, nurses constantly, wants to be carried, needs elaborate bedtime strategies and so forth, but I think that is a reflection of our AP parenting more than some personality "deficit" or "problem."

Having worked with severely impaired elementary schoolers, I am well aware that neither of my kids are even close to requiring the level of attention and care that some truly SN kids need. But it doesn't make my days any easier, lol.


----------



## MnMtm (Jan 15, 2008)

My MIL and SIL both described my DS as being high needs when he was an infant. I never thought of him as being high needs until I had DD 2 weeks ago, and she is such an easy baby, that it makes DS when he was an infant seem like maybe he was high needs. Of course, MIL and SIL aren't exactly on board with the AP that DH and I do. (MIL has said things like, "He just wants to nurse for comfort, so you don't to nurse hom. He needs to learn that that's only for eating when he's hungry.)


----------



## mamanoish (Feb 9, 2011)

I responded "you haven't seen high needs until you've spent a day with my kid!" because seriously, I don't care what anyone says. Since DAY 1 he has been VERY high needs. Unlike any child I've ever met. We AP'ed completely and met every one of his needs with gentle parenting, so it wasn't like considering CIO or something was calling him high needs because he cried for hours.

BUT he was then diagnosed with autism and hyperlexia at two, so my mama instincts were right all along.

I much prefer the term spirited child  that is very good. So I stick to my vote.


----------



## TAWAEGEE (Apr 22, 2011)

I think that parents are having children much later in life, me included and perhaps believe that our children should be on straightening themselves out at whatever age. What surprises me, is that it is not only overused, but it seems to be like if you are being completely transparent then there is nothing that can be done. Once you apply the label, then you can sit back. I remember a girl that I grew up with who was always labeled as "sensitive". As we matured and went on to college, she lived ever bit of that label that her mom said over and over. The unfortunate part about it is that we as her friends were all expected to just understand her at 8, 12, 16, 24, 32, 40, because she would often use this label in a discussion. Children are children. They all go thru things and some are different in temperment and expression. I have one who is an easy rider, rarely does his little boat seem to be rockin. But when it does, he puts his feet firmly in and can be very difficult to soothe him to see the light. My other son, bless his delicate heart, surprises me in many ways. When it comes down to it, he came early out of the tunnel and he has an unbelieveable zest for life. The last thing I want to do is give him something that will define him, without him defining him. When he is a bit more difficult, I find a bit of tough love mixed with the right compassion and reading his signs goes a long way. And sometimes he can be soothed with a hug, easily and he's not at all like his younger brother when he gets in a mood. Every kid can be tough to manage or just having one of those off days. in everyday life I want to be remembered by the totality of my deeds and not by a single incident. I also remind myself constantly, that sometimes I get up on the wrong side of the bed - and so do my wee ones. I think when I hear that phrase, I wonder...is the child difficult or just a child? I know it did take me a while to transition my mind...to play.


----------



## konayossie (Jul 29, 2010)

The post below sounded very "blame the parents" to me. I had DS #1 at age 29/30 (not sure if that makes me an older parent or not?). I am pretty sure that my age and perhaps "mature" expectations/set ways (I'm really not sure what you're implying is different about parenting as a middle-aged adult?) are NOT what caused DS to be a miserable baby 24 hrs a day for the first 5 months. The handful of people I'd trust him with (and was willing to inflict him on, really) agreed that he was different from the average baby. And believe me, finding the label "high needs" didn't give me permission to "sit back." As I said in an earlier post, when I first read Dr. Sears's description of the High Needs Baby, I cried (and I am NOT a crier) because I really believed before that somehow I was causing DS's behavior/needs even though it didn't rationally didn't make sense. Labeling him as high needs didn't make me sit back and stop parenting or meeting his needs, but it gave me the power to realize the root was beyond my control and not my fault, and just carry on trying to meet his needs (however demanding they might be) as best I could.

DS has gotten better and better since he was 5 months. He went from being truly miserable to merely demanding. I could deal with the constant need to be held and nursed everytime I sat down, but the screaming just tore my heart out. Now he's just an insanely busy 2 y o (I counted how many times he lapped the others in his nursery class crossing the playground structure the other day....it was amazing), who is funny and adorable. But, in spite of the good times we are having now, I was scarred enough by our early experience that recently when I was in a baby consignment store, I noticed and bought Dr. Sears's *Fussy Baby Book* even though I no longer *need* it, and I cried again when I read it, remembering how scary and difficult that first 1/2 year was. As I and others have said, it can be a hellish experience, and when people talked to me in the first few months about "treasuring these days, etc." I seriously wanted to kill them. Or give them my son and let them try and treasure it.

Oh, and Dr. Sears has a section in the *FBB* that talks about the pros and cons of labeling a child as high needs. It's definitely not a "medical diagnosis," but just a way of describing some babies' personalities (and they often tend to keep their demanding personalities later on in life).

I agree with previous posters--when someone says their baby is high needs, they are just reaching out for support and comfort. Give it to them.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TAWAEGEE*
> 
> I think that parents are having children much later in life, me included and perhaps believe that our children should be on straightening themselves out at whatever age. What surprises me, is that it is not only overused, but it seems to be like if you are being completely transparent then there is nothing that can be done. Once you apply the label, then you can sit back. I remember a girl that I grew up with who was always labeled as "sensitive". As we matured and went on to college, she lived ever bit of that label that her mom said over and over. The unfortunate part about it is that we as her friends were all expected to just understand her at 8, 12, 16, 24, 32, 40, because she would often use this label in a discussion. Children are children. They all go thru things and some are different in temperment and expression. I have one who is an easy rider, rarely does his little boat seem to be rockin. But when it does, he puts his feet firmly in and can be very difficult to soothe him to see the light. My other son, bless his delicate heart, surprises me in many ways. When it comes down to it, he came early out of the tunnel and he has an unbelieveable zest for life. The last thing I want to do is give him something that will define him, without him defining him. When he is a bit more difficult, I find a bit of tough love mixed with the right compassion and reading his signs goes a long way. And sometimes he can be soothed with a hug, easily and he's not at all like his younger brother when he gets in a mood. Every kid can be tough to manage or just having one of those off days. in everyday life I want to be remembered by the totality of my deeds and not by a single incident. I also remind myself constantly, that sometimes I get up on the wrong side of the bed - and so do my wee ones. I think when I hear that phrase, I wonder...is the child difficult or just a child? I know it did take me a while to transition my mind...to play.


----------



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I had my first child, who is high needs, in my mid-30s, and my easy child in my 40s. If it were my age, it seems like that would be reversed. The fact is that kids are different, and some are more intense or needier for whatever reason. I am very sure that I didn't create my dd's temperament. As others have said, people were commenting on how she'd keep me on my toes within a couple of days of her birth. And people commented on how mellow my younger one was right away too. We only have so much control over their personality.


----------



## hildare (Jul 6, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TAWAEGEE*
> 
> I think that parents are having children much later in life, me included and perhaps believe that our children should be on straightening themselves out at whatever age. What surprises me, is that it is not only overused, but it seems to be like if you are being completely transparent then there is nothing that can be done. Once you apply the label, then you can sit back. I remember a girl that I grew up with who was always labeled as "sensitive". As we matured and went on to college, she lived ever bit of that label that her mom said over and over. The unfortunate part about it is that we as her friends were all expected to just understand her at 8, 12, 16, 24, 32, 40, because she would often use this label in a discussion. Children are children. They all go thru things and some are different in temperment and expression. I have one who is an easy rider, rarely does his little boat seem to be rockin. But when it does, he puts his feet firmly in and can be very difficult to soothe him to see the light. My other son, bless his delicate heart, surprises me in many ways. When it comes down to it, he came early out of the tunnel and he has an unbelieveable zest for life. The last thing I want to do is give him something that will define him, without him defining him. When he is a bit more difficult, I find a bit of tough love mixed with the right compassion and reading his signs goes a long way. And sometimes he can be soothed with a hug, easily and he's not at all like his younger brother when he gets in a mood. Every kid can be tough to manage or just having one of those off days. in everyday life I want to be remembered by the totality of my deeds and not by a single incident. I also remind myself constantly, that sometimes I get up on the wrong side of the bed - and so do my wee ones. I think when I hear that phrase, I wonder...is the child difficult or just a child? I know it did take me a while to transition my mind...to play.


nope. i'm in my late 30's.

i didn't even realize that my dd was different or high needs even with the sears description (which ALL fits her) until i hung out with the newborns of friends. they didn't seem to need to be held 24 x 7 or nurse all night or scream their heads off.

i understand what i think you're saying about labeling. i certainly wouldn't SAY to her she's high needs, whether she could understand or not, and i primarily limit that description to when i post on mdc so that i know that others know what i'm talking about.

(not directing this at you specifically) but.. for the mamas who think the label is overused, i'm confused. if one goes by the sears description then how is it being overused? and if your kid isn't a high needs kid, i think it's a little condescending to suggest for the mamas of the hn kids that they are seeking attention or otherwise don't know what they're talking about. i can assure you, if you've lived it, you won't be judgey about someone saying that. it's not a high needs kid contest.


----------



## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TAWAEGEE*
> 
> I think that parents are having children much later in life, me included and perhaps believe that our children should be on straightening themselves out at whatever age. What surprises me, is that it is not only overused, but it seems to be like if you are being completely transparent then there is nothing that can be done. Once you apply the label, then you can sit back. I remember a girl that I grew up with who was always labeled as "sensitive". As we matured and went on to college, she lived ever bit of that label that her mom said over and over. The unfortunate part about it is that we as her friends were all expected to just understand her at 8, 12, 16, 24, 32, 40, because she would often use this label in a discussion. Children are children. They all go thru things and some are different in temperment and expression. I have one who is an easy rider, rarely does his little boat seem to be rockin. But when it does, he puts his feet firmly in and can be very difficult to soothe him to see the light. My other son, bless his delicate heart, surprises me in many ways. When it comes down to it, he came early out of the tunnel and he has an unbelieveable zest for life. The last thing I want to do is give him something that will define him, without him defining him. When he is a bit more difficult, I find a bit of tough love mixed with the right compassion and reading his signs goes a long way. And sometimes he can be soothed with a hug, easily and he's not at all like his younger brother when he gets in a mood. Every kid can be tough to manage or just having one of those off days. in everyday life I want to be remembered by the totality of my deeds and not by a single incident. I also remind myself constantly, that sometimes I get up on the wrong side of the bed - and so do my wee ones. I think when I hear that phrase, I wonder...is the child difficult or just a child? I know it did take me a while to transition my mind...to play.


I was 21 when I had my dd and I didn't realize that what I was going through with my dd wasn't normal for children until she was beyond infancy. I just thought that it was part of parenting for years. Her being a high needs baby and toddler didn't make me sit back and do nothing because there was a label, especially since I didn't realize that the label was there, the list Dr. Sears has and the term describes how she was to almost to a T (the only exception being that she did sleep once we started co-sleeping). It wasn't just an off day thing, it was almost four years of off days where she was constantly in need. I had my tubes tied when she was almost three because I couldn't imagine having two children like that and as much as I treasure my little girl I have never wanted to risk having a child that young again.

I think all the parenting judgment on this thread is ridiculous. I don't tell people they are ignoring their babies signs just because their baby isn't like mine was, I assume that each mother knows her baby better than I do and therefore knows what her baby's temperment is and what her baby needs from her.


----------



## Sol_y_Paz (Feb 6, 2009)

When I hear a parent attach that label to their own kid I think the parent must be struggling and having a hard time with that particular DC.

So I voted that must be hard for parent and child and I feel for them.


----------



## kythe (Dec 20, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *konayossie*
> 
> DS has gotten better and better since he was 5 months. He went from being truly miserable to merely demanding. I could deal with the constant need to be held and nursed everytime I sat down, but the screaming just tore my heart out. Now he's just an insanely busy 2 y o (I counted how many times he lapped the others in his nursery class crossing the playground structure the other day....it was amazing), who is funny and adorable. But, in spite of the good times we are having now, I was scarred enough by our early experience that recently when I was in a baby consignment store, I noticed and bought Dr. Sears's *Fussy Baby Book* even though I no longer *need* it, and I cried again when I read it, remembering how scary and difficult that first 1/2 year was. As I and others have said, it can be a hellish experience, and when people talked to me in the first few months about "treasuring these days, etc." I seriously wanted to kill them. Or give them my son and let them try and treasure it.
> 
> ...


I could have written this myself. I also came across Dr. Sears' "Fussy Baby Book" long after I actually needed it - but I bought it anyway. It was reassuring to me that I wasn't just making up my baby's problems, even though it was in retrospect at that time. Most people get through the baby stage and move on. The books on childrearing that you buy, the types of web forums you post in, generally reflect the current age and stage of your child.

My son is 9 now and I still get worked up over baby issues. It's not really a nostalgic issue, it's that his babyhood was so traumatic to me it is hard to work through the issues I developed trying to deal with him. My firstborn was a happy, easy baby and at that time I thought I was a great mom. I probably would have checked the box in the poll "My kids are easy because I practice AP with them", because that is a self-complimentary statement where moms can pat themselves on the back for being wonderful parents to produce such a great child.

But my world flipped upside down when ds was born and screamed non-stop from day 1. Other people's perceptions of me changed too, and I didn't fit in to parenting groups. Bringing a screaming baby to a public place, even a grocery store to do necessary shopping, invites negative comments and unwanted advice. And who wants an attention seeking, demanding brat at a toddler playgroup? By school age, developmental delays are more noticable but other parents continue with the ignorant comments such as assumptions that I must not have prepared him for school properly through a good preschool, or maybe he will "catch up" if I put him in a community sport. Now that he is in special ed, it is easier than ever to explain that he has issues beyond my control. But it has been a really long road getting here.


----------



## APToddlerMama (Oct 5, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TAWAEGEE*
> 
> I think that parents are having children much later in life, me included and perhaps believe that our children should be on straightening themselves out at whatever age. What surprises me, is that it is not only overused, but it seems to be like if you are being completely transparent then there is nothing that can be done. Once you apply the label, then you can sit back. I remember a girl that I grew up with who was always labeled as "sensitive". As we matured and went on to college, she lived ever bit of that label that her mom said over and over. The unfortunate part about it is that we as her friends were all expected to just understand her at 8, 12, 16, 24, 32, 40, because she would often use this label in a discussion. Children are children. They all go thru things and some are different in temperment and expression. I have one who is an easy rider, rarely does his little boat seem to be rockin. But when it does, he puts his feet firmly in and can be very difficult to soothe him to see the light. My other son, bless his delicate heart, surprises me in many ways. When it comes down to it, he came early out of the tunnel and he has an unbelieveable zest for life. The last thing I want to do is give him something that will define him, without him defining him. When he is a bit more difficult, I find a bit of tough love mixed with the right compassion and reading his signs goes a long way. And sometimes he can be soothed with a hug, easily and he's not at all like his younger brother when he gets in a mood. Every kid can be tough to manage or just having one of those off days. in everyday life I want to be remembered by the totality of my deeds and not by a single incident. I also remind myself constantly, that sometimes I get up on the wrong side of the bed - and so do my wee ones. I think when I hear that phrase, I wonder...is the child difficult or just a child? I know it did take me a while to transition my mind...to play.


My DS was very high needs. I referred to him that way. That didn't mean I labeled him without seeking a solution. It meant that in my own mind, I recognized that what I was going through with him which was not typical in any way. It meant that I cut myself some slack when I didn't get up and shower in the morning because he had just spent the last 18 of 24 hours crying and six sleeping on and off. It meant I didn't expect myself to have a seven course meal on the table at 6pm when my husband arrived home. People do have difficult children. To suggest otherwise is to minimize the very real challenges some of us go through and some of our children go through.

It turned out that my son had special needs, sensory issues, gross motor delays, major speech delays and significant reflux and food allergies. This was why he was "high needs." Once we figured out his food allergies, he was a much happier kid. He is three years old and still doesn't sleep through the night. On a regular basis he wakes up at 2 am and doesn't go back to bed until 7 am. Still, I don't really think of him as "high needs" anymore. Some moms would, and I would totally understand that. Labeling a child high needs isn't a cop out to relieve ourselves of responsibility or say our child is "bad." It can sometimes be the best way to describe an incredibly challenging situation. It has been a way for me to say to family members "get off our backs" when they expected us to drive 6 hours for a baptism or 3 to visit Great Uncle Ed. Have some empathy.


----------



## sunnygir1 (Oct 8, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *One_Girl*
> 
> I was 21 when I had my dd and I didn't realize that what I was going through with my dd wasn't normal for children until she was beyond infancy. I just thought that it was part of parenting for years. Her being a high needs baby and toddler didn't make me sit back and do nothing because there was a label, especially since I didn't realize that the label was there, the list Dr. Sears has and the term describes how she was to almost to a T (the only exception being that she did sleep once we started co-sleeping). It wasn't just an off day thing, it was almost four years of off days where she was constantly in need. I had my tubes tied when she was almost three because I couldn't imagine having two children like that and as much as I treasure my little girl I have never wanted to risk having a child that young again.
> 
> *I think all the parenting judgment on this thread is ridiculous.* I don't tell people they are ignoring their babies signs just because their baby isn't like mine was, I assume that each mother knows her baby better than I do and therefore knows what her baby's temperment is and what her baby needs from her.


Um, well, the way the poll is set up is kind of leading and definitely inviting the debate. Whenever you ask a leading question and invite people to elaborate on it there will necessarily be generalizations made that don't fit everyone, but are based on the knowledge and experience (or lack there of) of the speaker. I would try not to take it personally, if I were you.


----------



## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sunnygir1*
> 
> Um, well, the way the poll is set up is kind of leading and definitely inviting the debate. Whenever you ask a leading question and invite people to elaborate on it there will necessarily be generalizations made that don't fit everyone, but are based on the knowledge and experience (or lack there of) of the speaker. I would try not to take it personally, if I were you.


I figured the negative poll options were based on judgmental attitudes the OP had encountered in real life.

I was disgusted to realize they were based on judgmental attitudes she'd encountered here at MDC.

I don't care how "leading" the poll options are, no one writes a post saying that all kids are difficult and they didn't have a problem with their kids because they parented the right way unless they are deeply critical of those who do have problems.


----------



## FarrenSquare (Jun 4, 2010)

I'm an educator, so to me the term means a child who has needs that require extra supports. Technically speaking, gross and fine motor delays, language delays, or children who require extensive cognitive and/or behavioural supports (aka on the Autistic spectrum or FASD) qualify as "high needs"

My baby is fussy, I call him high maintenance. There is a big difference to me.


----------



## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

FarrenSquare, I've always heard what you're talking about called Special Needs, not high needs. The two are completely different animals, though they sometimes overlap.


----------



## FarrenSquare (Jun 4, 2010)

In my experience, the trend was turning towards "high needs" or "exceptional needs" as people started reacting negatively towards the term "special." Again, just my experience.


----------



## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan*
> 
> I figured the negative poll options were based on judgmental attitudes the OP had encountered in real life.
> 
> ...


Yes, this... I apologize if the poll options were leading -- they really were all things I've heard while spending time on MDC (it's not something I discuss much in real life so I don't know how most non-MDC'ers would react). I tried to balance out the options but it was hard.

I know some of the responses have been hard for me (and surely others) to read and kind of angering but at the same time, I can appreciate that someone who hasn't had a high-needs kid can't always understand that kids like this exist and that it's not necessarily the parents' fault (though I sure feel like it at times and others' attitudes perpetuate that feeling!) I really do appreciate the honesty of the responses and hope that this thread has not caused too much tension or hurt feelings... It's important to me to know what others are thinking when I say something such as 'high needs' and this thread has provided lots of insight into everyone's thoughts. It's also confirmed for me that DS does indeed have some more extreme issues and we are FINALLY getting him evaluated by EI, which (however it turns out) I think is a step we've needed to take for a long time.

So no, my intention wasn't to cause a big angry debate, but to get clarity for myself and anyone else who was wondering the same thing. I also think it's awesome that most of the posters here DO understand that 'high needs' is different than a kid going through a tough stage or waking up on the wrong side of the bed.


----------



## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy*
> 
> It's also confirmed for me that DS does indeed have some more extreme issues and we are FINALLY getting him evaluated by EI, which (however it turns out) I think is a step we've needed to take for a long time.


Fantastic! Be honest with them and don't let them fob you off. When I got help for my son (for his eating) it was very tempting for me to explain away some of the adaptive behaviors I had acquired just to survive. Like "he only eats 5 things but it's probably because I stopped offering more than that...". Instead "His inability to cope with new foods without descending into panic means we're limited to x and y restaurants". KWIM?


----------



## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D_McG*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


I'm glad you said this, because it's so easy for me to minimize things because we've made it work somehow or blame X on how I did Y or whatever. I'm making a straightforward list of my concerns, and hopefully that will help me to confidently get my message across!!


----------



## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

yes! What I learned was that it was all a jumbled mess. Without clear direction, my adaptive behaviors were compounding his issues. So we BOTH had to learn new tricks


----------



## quaz (May 24, 2005)

deleted


----------



## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *quaz*
> Now, tell me how on earth that is a 'bit' more difficult, and that she just had an off day!!
> 
> Tammy


I hope for both your sakes that that story was all in the past tense!

It's got to be such a relief for people who have kids with quantifiable reasons for certain behaviors. Like the parents who figure out allergies and can actually DO something and make their child's life easier. I hope that every parent with a high needs baby is able to find a cause that has a solution.


----------



## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Crunchy: I've really enjoyed this thread and thanks for posting. It made me pause and wonder about the terms I use. My DH has ADD and I am such a nervous personality that I would be freaking out in a field in the middle of no where (even if no other humans existed) and would probably be looking for a cigarette (even though I don't smoke) just because I'm TENSE. And DH is tense. And DD came out of my womb an INTENSE individual. It's funny but my first response would be to call her high needs because she NEEDS so much, even at 4.5. She needs to be seen, heard, loved, listened to, agreed with, admired, etc.

So do I.

Am I high needs or is there an element of wanting to be heard and a strong need to be acknowledged? I think my DD is very much like myself and DH. She is a human being screaming for attention (not for lack of attention but more for a need to be acknowledged for one's thoughts and contributions). I find this much different than babies or young children who have attachment needs that aren't related to normal acknowledgement needs. I disagree with the poster upstream who referenced the older parent thing and how older parents have harsher or more attuned expectations. I don't think that is the case at all. I think parents are very in tune (no matter what the age) of their chid's needs. I think there is a fine line between unusually high needs and needs that are part and parcel of personality. I've erred on the side of personality because I know my own self and DH's personality and we both have learned to live with our own foibles.


----------



## quaz (May 24, 2005)

deleted


----------



## accountclosed2 (May 28, 2007)

I like the term high need, because that was exactly what made my DD different (and I'd cared for many children over the years, as a nanny, so I wasn't "just" a shocked first-time mum). Spirited she may be, in some ways. Strong-willed and physically strong (but always tiny!). And full of energy, but more determination and perseverance than wired. She's always "on", and has had a lot of trouble relaxing (except when breastfeeding).

I like high need, because DD demanded (and loudly!), to always be held, only be held by her parents, to be breastfed nearly all the time, to not get dressed (or only dressed in some, quick, simple way), to never be put down, to no have her diapers changed (or to do it with her upright), to never ever be wet (even in disposables), to always be held upright, to not be confined in a sling or carrier or carseat, to only sleep next to me on the bed at night, and only in the push chair in the day time, to throw herself out of our arms if we didn't get her what she wanted right away... And to always demand it right now (never suck hands when hungry or making sounds, just reach and then SCREAM). Still, after the first month or so she didn't scream much, because we responded right away. We held her the way she wanted etc. Obviously, she needed all that.

Anyways, yes, I think some babies are high need, DD is just very different from other kids I've known. And then I know others who are actually high need too, but mostly they are the toddlers and preschoolers that run riot, which DD just doesn't do. Different ways of high need.

On the other hand, I also know some parents who kind of expect their kids to be angels, and just fit into the parents' life smoothly. I suspect some of them are actually quite relaxed babies, average babies, just they won't sleep 12 hours at a stretch







and get upset when they are hungry... On the other hand, I've never heard any of these parents refer to their kids as high need, they're kind of the type of parents who are more likely to read Babywise than the Sears! (Instead I've heard them refer to their babies as "stroppy", "fussy", "difficult", "naughty", "trouble" and "bad". Makes me a bit sad. )

"The parents just need to ...." makes me see red! Really easy to judge other parents, but I'd rather not. I don't know what their life is like. I do however know that with MY child, the best way of getting her to spiral way out of control is to try to impose routines on her (as it happens, I thrive on routines, she doesn't). A rhythm works, if I don't worry too much about it, but look more to my child. If I go with the flow, she tends to fall into a routine of her own. (When we tried to get her to bed at 8.30, every night it would take longer before she slept, after a week or so not until 11. So we dropped it, and after a couple f months she'd pulled her bedtime back to 7.30-8 - she'd never ever slept that early!)


----------



## carmel23 (Jul 21, 2006)

I'm of the mind that well, its a baby and all babies are high needs! They're babies! Part of it is parental expectation (like they think they baby will be a certain way, but then the reality of caring for a baby 24/7 is something else--and they think it is a high needs baby, when it just, a baby!).

I think if you realize your baby will cry all the time, want to never sleep without you holding them/touching them, and will not sleep for more then 20 minutes at a time, you have realistic expectations 

And all babies go through phases when they need to be held all the time, don't like the way socks feel, wake all the time, etc.

Parenting is tough. Hardest job in the world.


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *carmel23*
> 
> I'm of the mind that well, its a baby and all babies are high needs! They're babies! Part of it is parental expectation (like they think they baby will be a certain way, but then the reality of caring for a baby 24/7 is something else--and they think it is a high needs baby, when it just, a baby!).
> 
> ...


I'm kind of astonished to read this from a parent of more than one child, I'll be honest. I've only had one that wouldn't sleep unless I was holding or touching her. I've had two who would sleep for long stretches from a very early age. I've only had one that cried anything close to "all the time".

I honestly think the "all babies are high needs" response is really dismissive of people who are struggling with unusually high needs (or "high maintenance") children.


----------



## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> >I honestly think the "all babies are high needs" response is really dismissive of people who are struggling with unusually high needs (or "high maintenance") children.


I agree completely. And in this loooong thread, several of us have said that more than once. To add to what SB is saying - I have three kids. One (#2) was low maintenance - didn't even really cry when she was hungry. Slept a ton. Let me take her everywhere, any time. Would happily let me put her down. Would let anyone hold her and didn't seem to notice if I wasn't nearby. Didn't need to nurse to sleep. Nursed fairly infrequently (but was in the 99th percentile, so clearly was getting plenty). #3 was "high needs," in the way of a normal infant - needed to nurse to sleep, cried when disturbed or hungry or poopy, needed to be held a lot, preferred to be held by me or dh but would go to others if he was well rested and in a good mood, woke frequently at night until well past 2 years old, etc. Then there was number 1. I can't even really put into words how much more "difficult" he was than my other two or almost any other baby I've ever encountered. This was NOT "all babies are high needs" and, frankly, it's insulting for people to suggest that it was.


----------



## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

I've never heard the "high-needs" term from people who expected babies like eclipse's second kid, only from people who expected a baby like her third kid and got a kid who was as intense or more intense than her first.

Eclipse's third kid was like dd was as a baby, and that's what I consider normal for babies and it's sooooo not "high needs".


----------



## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

Both of mine have been somewhat highneeds the Dr. Sear's described "highneeds" way. #1 had to be held always (while standing up), faught sleep, cried or fussed most of the day no matter what I did, nursed every hour around the clock for over a year, etc.. he was a very high maintenance, active, busy, baby/toddler. Once he started walking he actually became MUCH happier and even though he was still what a lot of people would consider "highneeds" it was something i could handle. Now at almost 3 yo he is still challenging at times, but a totally normal 2-3 year old.. still very active, outgoing, doesn't STTN etc but also very bright. #2 is also busy and active and needs lots of attention.. fights sleep, and wakes every hour or more at night. I am tired. I thought there was no way I could have another baby who was as bad of a sleeper as DS1.... But, he is HAPPY when he's happy, and is one of the smiliest babies I've seen. Both of my babies have had digestive issues. I think that DS2 would be a much easier baby if we could figure his digestive issues out.

I am around a lot of other kids/toddlers/babies and talk with other moms a lot (IRL, online, and on MDC) and I would say mine are in between "average" and "highneeds".

OP, I hope you get some answers from EI. I have followed a lot of your posts on here, and I am so glad you have decided to seek out some help. You are such an amazing mama to have endured for so long the things you have had to deal with. Your son is so lucky to have you, and I so hope you get some answers from EI to help you better understand your son, and hopefully find some ways to help him cope better. ((*HUGS*))


----------



## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

me too. I also felt that my first son was just normal... no matter what anyone said, even though people told me repeatedly that he was more needy than a normal kid.

but after i had my second... yes, I definnietly belive in the high needs child.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> I'm kind of astonished to read this from a parent of more than one child, I'll be honest. I've only had one that wouldn't sleep unless I was holding or touching her. I've had two who would sleep for long stretches from a very early age. I've only had one that cried anything close to "all the time".
> 
> I honestly think the "all babies are high needs" response is really dismissive of people who are struggling with unusually high needs (or "high maintenance") children.


----------



## lonegirl (Oct 31, 2008)

It is interesting...I just had a look at Dr Sear's list of 12...Well my son as a baby would have been classified as "high needs". He fit nearly every single category to a T. I am glad I didn't read that when he was a baby....why? Because, to me, not everything needs a label. To me he was who he was. I was fortunate to be able to be with him all the time and have my hubby to help as well. He was generally a very happy baby....but extremely attached. Everyone would tell me to lay him down, or offer to hold him....yeah, you know what it is just easier keeping in my arms (besides I loved that he always needed to be snuggled). I think the fact, too, that hubby and I were able to both be with him 24-7 helped so that we could spell each other.

When my son was born the first night in the hospital is when I started co-sleeping. Why? Because the nurses couldn't handle him. He was completely inconsolable. They brought him to me and suggested he nurse and just sleep with me in arms.

My son nursed until 2.5y, Until 2.5y he never slept through the night (waking every hour to want to nurse again). He napped in my arms daily and I could never put him down as the second I did he was awake and crying. It wasn't until about 6m ago (at 4) that he would go to sleep on his own. He needed his mommy to be with him (his words).

Many, many, many time we dealt with separation anxiety (even at 3.5-4). Rediculous screaming and crying to the point of vomiting (and this was just because I went for a pee -closed door- while he was playing.) I came here for advice and when I explained the situation was told I should not let him continue to scream as it was mentally damaging. LOL It was mentally damaging to me not to be able to close the door for a 2 min pee. That phase has passed...so will they all....eventually.

My son is an extremely intelligent (not tested but I would be completely surprised if they didn't say gifted) 4.5yo. He is intense, bright, full of energy and only now can be reasoned with (sometimes-I think he would make a good lawyer with his negotiation skills)

I look at Dr. Sears "Changing Personality" list and see my son in the child list completly. But to me he is just Tyr and all the quirks and crazies along with the intesities, intelligence, fun and spirit are what make him unique and who he is.


----------



## konayossie (Jul 29, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> I'm kind of astonished to read this from a parent of more than one child, I'll be honest. I've only had one that wouldn't sleep unless I was holding or touching her. I've had two who would sleep for long stretches from a very early age. I've only had one that cried anything close to "all the time".
> 
> I honestly think the "all babies are high needs" response is really dismissive of people who are struggling with unusually high needs (or "high maintenance") children.


----------



## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LadyCatherine185*
> 
> OP, I hope you get some answers from EI. I have followed a lot of your posts on here, and I am so glad you have decided to seek out some help. You are such an amazing mama to have endured for so long the things you have had to deal with. Your son is so lucky to have you, and I so hope you get some answers from EI to help you better understand your son, and hopefully find some ways to help him cope better. ((*HUGS*))


Thanks so much for the support!! We did have the EI eval and he has started having appointments with the EI specialist & OT (only had 1 appt so far so no idea if it will help yet!) I think he's also turning a corner, I have seen so many improvements in him over the past month or so. It's so exciting to see him sometimes acting like a more 'typical' toddler (even when it ultimately creates MORE work for me). He is sleeping so much better and nursing far less and playing better... it's just amazing. I don't know if he's outgrowing his issues or we're just in a better phase right now, but I'm not complaining!! Lots of things are still struggles but much less so than just a few months ago.

One thing I've realized, though, is that his first ~2 years have completely traumatized me. All my muscles are permanently clenched, waiting for the next meltdown. I still wake up every hour or so all night long, like my body can't relax and realize he will sleep, and I grind my teeth in my sleep. Whenever DH is home to help, I find myself withdrawing into a book or MDC the minute DS whimpers, because I just can't cope with any more crying. DS and I have a close bond but I am so often completely touched out... I love that kid to death but it is just so, so hard for me to truly enjoy my time with him.

It's still hard to read some of the 'all babies are high needs' responses. I expected my baby to be a lot of work. I knew he'd need to nurse every 1-3 hours. I knew he wouldn't sleep through the night. I knew he'd want to be held all the time. I knew he'd spit up a bit. I knew I might spend my nights pacing around or rocking him. I didn't know that many days he'd nurse non-stop for 24 hours straight, even at 2 years old. I didn't know I'd never ever be able to leave him alone while he slept. I didn't know even my DH wouldn't be able to hold him while I ran to the bathroom. I didn't know I wouldn't be able to drive anywhere with him. I didn't know that no amount of rocking, singing, swaddling, bouncing, and loving would calm him down, that more than 20 of 24 hours would be filled with crying, that he would sleep only in 20-minute increments... I had seen lots of babies (and have seen many since) but have yet to see a baby like DS. It breaks my heart. I put EVERYTHING into being my son's mother. EVERYTHING. I left my office to work from home. I nursed him on demand, even if we topped 30 times a day and I was writhing in pain. I gently soothed him to sleep every 20mins all night long. I let him come to the bathroom with me, have perfected peeing while holding or nursing, have never left his side for more than an hour or two, and not at all for his first year+. I spend hours and hours reading and researching how to be the best mom I can be for him, how to help him with his sensory issues, how to keep him from withdrawing. I have put my heart, mind, body, and soul into this, and it's STILL not enough. It's hard for me to believe all babies are like this, because if they were, our species would cease to exist.


----------



## sunnygir1 (Oct 8, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


(hugs)

I am glad that things seem to be looking up.

I have a similar experience with the fear that they're going to wake up crying AGAIN! When ds makes any kind of noise in the night I find myself wide awake, holding my breath, and clenching my muscles -- I have to make myself breathe and let my shoulders relax.

I have two who had horrible tummy issues/colic as babies (dd until 7 months and ds until 4 months) and they both have been really bad sleepers.

I have lots of friends who have children. Most all of them have been sleep deprived with young babies and many of them with toddlers, but I don't think any of them have had it worse than I have, and certainly not what you describe with your lo.

I am taking your last paragraph as somewhat of a vent/reaction to other posters, but I just want to encourage you to take care of yourself. At two years old, your child can begin to learn to function without you sometimes even if he is high needs. A 2yo crying outside the bathroom door while you pee alone is very different from a tiny baby crying alone while you pee. I would strongly encourage you to get the help you need to take a nap, take a walk, have coffee with a friend, etc. You have given so much to your child, don't forget to take care of yourself so you can continue to be there for him as he grows up.


----------



## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

CM - I went through a similar thing with my son as far as not being able to relax/sleep well. I really HAD to learn to get out without him. At least one night a month and then a couple of hours on the weekend. It was also around that age that we started to transition him out of our bed (he's almost 5 and just left fully.. so it was a slow thing). But really getting AWAY for long periods (I even left for a couple of weekends) was how I built myself back up.

DS was not really HN's. It was more my own issue.


----------



## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sunnygir1*
> 
> I am taking your last paragraph as somewhat of a vent/reaction to other posters, but I just want to encourage you to take care of yourself. At two years old, your child can begin to learn to function without you sometimes even if he is high needs. A 2yo crying outside the bathroom door while you pee alone is very different from a tiny baby crying alone while you pee. I would strongly encourage you to get the help you need to take a nap, take a walk, have coffee with a friend, etc. You have given so much to your child, don't forget to take care of yourself so you can continue to be there for him as he grows up.


I didn't even pick up on that. You're not still holding him while you pee, are you? Honestly that kind of anxiety can be self-fulfilling/reciprocal. I do think that getting a team of people to help you guys will really put things in perspective for everyone.


----------



## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D_McG*
> 
> I didn't even pick up on that. You're not still holding him while you pee, are you? Honestly that kind of anxiety can be self-fulfilling/reciprocal. I do think that getting a team of people to help you guys will really put things in perspective for everyone.


No, I was describing/venting about the first 2 years or so. Around 18mos we were able to start introducing some limits and again around 2yo he was really receptive to some more gentle changes. Yeah, he does still follow me to the bathroom, but I'm not holding him while I pee anymore (well, usually!), and sometimes he just has to cry while DH takes him in the other room so I can go in peace! In many ways I feel like we're about a year behind with things like that but it's fine, it's improving, slowly but surely. I do get some time to myself (especially since DH is laid off now!) and I do go out alone a bit. I don't think DS is ready for me to just take off for a whole day or a weekend but I'm totally OK with that. It's hard to strike the right balance because what is OK for some 2yo's is not OK for DS and sometimes I just want to keep the peace at all costs (due to the aforementioned trauma of soooo much crying etc. and sometimes it's hard to remember we're not *there* anymore, that things really are better) but for the most part I am able to get my needs met and I actually eat three meals a day now and spend a little time cleaning the house and all those things I wasn't able to do not so long ago!!


----------



## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

crunchy all i can say is







i can so relate to your post.

the only reason, the only reason why i didnt go stark raving mad was because of two reasons. 1. there is mental illness on both sides of the family. my bro committed suicide. my then dh was a tormented man. he had been like dd (not to that extreme) and had suffered because his mom - a single mother of 4 could not give him the attention he wanted. i didnt want the same for dd. i would walk thru fire if i had to - and i felt i did. my dd didnt just cry. she'd throw up from crying so hard. and sometimes start choking. 2. i had to work. HAD TO. did not have a choice. i cried and cried at work as then dh watched dd. BUT it was a break from her. and there were moments when i HAD to concentrate on work. i worked part time.

strangers or even my friends - people with many children, single moms with 4 close aged children and special needs kid - when they felt bad for you, when they said my work was harder than theirs - then you really get a sense of wow that's really hard.

when you meet another mom with a HNs child - oh i cant describe the moment. when we compared notes. felt like i met another long lost sister. there was like an instant bonding on a different level even though we really didnt have anything in common.


----------



## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy*
> 
> but for the most part I am able to get my needs met and I actually eat three meals a day now and spend a little time cleaning the house and all those things I wasn't able to do not so long ago!!


you know my mil called me and made me promise - she made me promise that i would do whatever it took to eat my meal in half an hour. not 3 hours. she made a list of foods to cook so that it did not involve using a knife to cut.

i remember the relief of the first time i could go poop without holding a child. she'd be happy to sit in the bathroom. i was a pro at holding while peeing and it was no big deal.

however i will say for me the first two years - while hard physically - was not the hard part. it was the later part. the gut wrenching questions. i mean i still didnt get my alone time in the bathroom (ex was having a hard time with marriage so from the day dd came home he would stay out for most of the day coming home to sleep). when i'd go to the bathroom and i'd see her pull out the stool to sit down i'd clench inside. it was one of those questions. yeah we had all our philosophical questions about god, reincarnation (i didnt intro the thought she did), sex, giving birth, etc all happened in the bathroom with me on the potty.

its not really high needs (i think) but her pain - how intensely she feels things - that truly has been hard for me.


----------



## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

I have an experiment for anyone who is still feeling like "high needs" is an exaggeration or just not understanding what babies need.

Record your baby crying making sure to include at least some of their "this needs to be fixed NOW" crying.

Get something about the same weight as your baby.

Have a friend call you at random intervals between 20minutes and 40minutes apart.

Have the friend use an online number generator to get a number between 10 and 30

Then put the recording on repeat and listen to it on headphones.

Every time you aren't holding your baby, pick up the weight that's the same as your baby. Recreate the experience of a baby who will not tolerate a sling by not using your sling even if your baby does like the sling.

When your friend calls, stop everything (except caring for your own baby) and sit in a chair either nursing your baby or holding the baby-weight object for at least 10 minutes. Every three times, go ahead and turn off the baby crying tape.

Your friend should track how many times they've called. When they reach the number they generated, they should let you know to stop the experiment.

And then realize that your day was *easy*.

(And if that does sound like an easy day, maybe your baby is high needs and you need to be easier on yourself and everyone else.)


----------



## Just1More (Jun 19, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan*
> 
> When your friend calls, stop everything (except caring for your own baby) and sit in a chair either nursing your baby or holding the baby-weight object for at least 10 minutes. Every three times, go ahead and turn off the baby crying tape.


What? I get to SIT. No way, lol.

CM, I have had 2 really hard babies. My first one was hard, but I didn't realize it until later. It was just she and I and I could give her everything, and so we were okay. She learned to talk very very young, and so then she could articulate her needs, and that helped a lot. She still is very emotionally intense, and has a lot of separation anxiety, but she's okay. I don't know that she was actually high needs, though. I think maybe "asperger tendancies" might be a better explaination.

My second one. Sigh. He is 4 tomorrow, and I still feel all sick inside when I think about his infancy. He screamed until he was 2, a lot. He would have good happy times, but he was like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. You never knew when it would be all over. I couldn't walk down my driveway without him being hysterical. All the people who say that "you should just put them down, you need to take care of you..." Well, what would you do if you saw someone writhing in agony on the side of the road. A really intense, tough situation. You'd STOP, and do whatever it took to care for that person, right? Even if it meant you had to go without for yourself for a day or so, right? Well, that's the kind of intensity that we are talking about. Except, the intensity never goes away, and some of us don't have people to help us. Some of us had to do it on our own. When your baby is crying hysterically, you don't just "put them down so you can eat supper." And, even if you do...do you know that tapes of such things are played to TORTURE people, to create high stress environments? It's not like your blood pressure calms down, or you get any mental clarity when trying to "take a break and relax" while your infant or small child is sounding like the are being poked repeatedly with a pin or something much worse. Ds would push me, he'd throw himself. I was weak and dizzy from exhaustion. I couldn't eat wheat, but I couldn't put him down to cook. So, I lost a lot of weight quickly. There were no snacks I could have easily. I was also caring for my then 2yo dd. It was awful.

And, OP...yours sounds much harder. No, people don't understand. They don't understand that there is a problem with your child. If someone had a child who was 5 and wasn't potty trained yet, lots of people might have harsh things to say. But, if that child had a problem with their kidneys...people would shut up.

Well, my ds had a lot of issues going on. I am SO thankful that we were able to figure them out. But, it wasn't my fault he had them. And it was RIGHT to be compassionate and give myself to an itty bitty person who was hurting. And it's isn't someone's fault if they can't figure it out either.

OP, you are getting help for you son. You have given yourself to him. Look in the mirror and tell yourself that most people would have lost their minds by now. Tell yourself how awesome you are. Tell yourself you have what it takes. You are amazing. You are his mama. And he will always thank you for it.


----------



## sunnygir1 (Oct 8, 2007)

I think all parents can understand putting your own needs aside to care for your children -- we've all done it. And some of us have had to do it a lot more than others.

But I stand by my comment that at some point you have to take care of yourself even if it means your child has to cry (even hysterically) while you do it. It does not serve a child for the mother to make herself ill by not meeting her own basic needs. And I think this really comes into play when the child reaches toddlerhood, and especially if the mama has a second child. My ds sometimes had to cry at my feet in the kitchen while I talked and sang to him and tried to stay calm so that I could prepare a quick gluten-free meal for us. Sometimes he was completely hysterical, and I usually couldn't make it through more than a couple of minutes without crying, and I would make the quickest meal possible so I could hold/nurse/rock/bounce/carry ds again. Breastfeeding a 1yo child without eating and drinking is a very bad idea that can have lasting consequences for your health. I really think that after a year of giving up everything for your child it is time to gradually start taking some of it back, bit by bit.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Just1More*
> 
> What? I get to SIT. No way, lol.
> 
> ...


Agreed, you are awesome, and your child is lucky to have you! And although we all have ideas and thoughts based on the limited information we've learned from this thread, YOU are the one who knows your child and knows yourself and will make the best decisions you can to care for your family.


----------



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

My husband and I took turns eating in those days. Just setting them down and letting them cry while you eat doesn't work if hearing them scream hysterically makes you unable to relax enough to digest food.


----------



## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamazee*
> 
> My husband and I took turns eating in those days. Just setting them down and letting them cry while you eat doesn't work if hearing them scream hysterically makes you unable to relax enough to digest food.


That was my problem.

I have trouble eating to begin with (maybe due to a previous eating disorder, or maybe I'm just weird, I don't know, but I can't eat when I'm too tense/anxious)... I also can't eat while nursing, for some strange reason -- I just can't swallow the food lol.

I get what some of you are saying but I agree with the pp who said it's like watching while someone writhes in pain on the side of the road -- it would be inhumane to not stop everything and make helping them your priority. Trust me, the minute the screaming switched to more normal fussiness/crying I did take advantage of it to quickly make myself food or take a shower, but we were just in crisis mode for pretty much the whole first year and then some so it just wasn't always possible.

Sapphire_chan, I LOL'ed at your 'experiment'.

I appreciate the encouraging, uplifting words and I also appreciate the many different perspectives in this thread (even the ones that hurt to read!) I started this a good month or two ago & didn't expect to get so many responses & hear so many experiences. It's great to know some people can relate or at least understand a bit what it's like, and it was this thread that finally got me to call EI (oh how I wish I'd called sooner!!) I hope those that don't really understand the term 'high needs' don't ever get the CHANCE to understand it, because I would not wish this on anyone. Sometimes I feel like I'm nuts, and this thread has provided some much-needed validation. Sometimes I convince myself it's all my fault, and you all have shown me that it's not. I am so glad I found MDC when I did because many of you have gotten me through our hardest times.


----------



## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

sunnygir1 - i get what you are saying. its what i heard from my mil too.

letting your child cry at ur feet is one thing if all ur child did was cry.

in high needs world cry is the cue for mom to drop anything. at least for my child. it is 'that' cry. the cry that will make them throw up and choke. the crying that takes them to a whole new place (i think quaz mentioned that in an earlier post) from which they struggle to come back. in that moment they are sowrapped in their 'whatever emotion' and crying that they cannot recognise mom is right there, i may be holding her or talking to her but she cannot see me. they sometimes are so spent with crying that they just collapse. its a scary place for a mom to be.

so heck at the cost of my own food or rest i will make sure my dd doesnt hit that place unless i just have no choice.

the thing is we moms all survive. we have found ways in between to make it work. for me since i couldnt leave her sleeping alone coz she'd wake up - i'd stay in bed with her and try to rest. i mean i never did coz my house was trashed and i felt so guilty that i have all this free time in my hand. but i could never sleep.

so here dd is almost 9. she's been sleeping thru the night since she was 3 1/2. and yes she does sleep thru the night.

me - i have never been able to sleep thru the night any more.

even today whenever i hear a child cry i want to run to it. always, always a flashback. for me it was never dd's crying that got me. i have held her and have her cry on me for 5 hours straight. its that special crying (that i cant predict) that makes her so hysterical that she would cry 'i want my mama' i want my mama - even while sitting on my lap and me talking to her. its like she cant see me she was so wrapped in that emotion.


----------



## carmel23 (Jul 21, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> I'm kind of astonished to read this from a parent of more than one child, I'll be honest. I've only had one that wouldn't sleep unless I was holding or touching her. I've had two who would sleep for long stretches from a very early age. I've only had one that cried anything close to "all the time".
> 
> I honestly think the "all babies are high needs" response is really dismissive of people who are struggling with unusually high needs (or "high maintenance") children.


maybe my point of reference is all high needs babies? I don't know...

I just look back and think that there are times when all of my babies were really hard, and learning what works for them, what their personalities are, etc. can take a long time...

My oldest was hyper sensitive to noise, stimuli, and constantly going. Wouldn't sleep for very long at all. Woke every 2 hours. Blah blah blah.

My second son was super intense for different reasons, my 3rd was dairy/soy intolerant and was very sensitive (ie colicy) to foods, and my 4th crawled at 4 months old, walked at 8.... that was really intense, too. Doesn't really sleep without me holding him.... I'm not judging, I am just commenting. I think it has a lot to do with the personality of the parent, as well...

And I guess I'm wondering why someone would ask the question if they don't want the answer?

I guess what I have observed is a lot of parents who think that a baby won't change their life, and they'll be able to do on living like they did before baby. And they are in for a rude awakening... and suddenly their baby isn't a normal baby but 'high needs'. That's what I'm talking about, if it isn't the situation, then that isn't the situation.


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *carmel23*
> 
> maybe my point of reference is all high needs babies? I don't know...
> 
> ...


I guess I just don't understand why you'd assume that the person in the situation is mistaken, and the person outside the situation is right. I've had people tell me that ds2 doesn't seem to have any special needs - he's just "all boy" (whatever the eff that's supposed to mean). I've had them dismiss his meltdowns as "that's the way kids are", "he just needs more discipline", etc. But, you know...they're not living with him, and they don't see the disconnects in his head that I see. They don't actually see the meltdowns when he tries to strangle me, because I won't let him stay at a playdate that he's not invited to (dd1's friend) and tries to smash things in the other person's house over it. They don't see his near-total inability to match up an action and consequence, even a totally natural one (OMG - disciplining this child is a nightmare!). When dd1 was screaming non-stop for 3+ hours every night, and doing her incredibly squirrelly nursing thing (I can't even describe it, but it was wild), and refusing to sleep anywhere near me, other people didn't see that - they just assumed I was doing something wrong. But, they assume that they know my situation better than I do. I see it all the time with parenting, and it's whacked.

I think most kids are really hard at times. DS2 was the easiest baby in the universe, and I felt like I was cheating - and he's been hell on wheels ever since he turned about 1.5 or two. But, there are also babies who are hard all the time (dd1 was the closest for me). They just simply do not stop needing you, and it's not in a way that can be effectively addressed.

I don't think I've had a true high needs baby (as I say, dd1 was the closest), but that doesn't mean it was easy to parent them all, or that I didn't have sleep deprivation, or have to wake up every two hours, or spend entire days with a baby either on my back or in my arms, or have to go pee with a baby or any of that. Those things come with perfectly normal babies (and then are the low needs babies, who do let you get a break). I just think it's obvious that people, including babies, come with a wide variety of temperaments and personalities, and dismissing someone's description of their own experience with their own baby strikes me as odd. I've had a low needs baby, and two "normal" needs babies, and one borderline high needs baby (who is still very sensitive and volatile, but has grown into a lovely eight year old). From the outside, I suspect none of them looked like what they were, except maybe ds2. I had people routinely state that ds1 had ADHD, because of his energy level and constant motion and chatting. DD1 tended to come across fairly calmly in public, especially if we were hiking and dh had her in the Snugli (not if I did - she'd go ape). DS2 came across as an easygoing, laidback baby, which he was. Of course, to a lot of people, he still comes across that way...and he's not.

I'm rambling...I just don't understand why anyone would dismiss someone's assertion that they have a high needs baby with "all babies are high needs". It just seems really offensive.


----------



## carmel23 (Jul 21, 2006)

I'm not assuming anything. I merely responding to a poll on a message board. I don't know you and am not "judging" you. I was merely stating an observation that I think the term is over used. Parenting is very difficult, and I don't think that some babies are "normal." Sure some babies probably fit the label, but others probably don't. But if it makes the parent feel better about themselves, that is great. Some people need that kind of security.

to quote Dr. Sears:

*"In some ways all babies are high need babies, and most babies have high needs in at least one area of their life. Some have more high need areas than others."*

http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/fussy-baby/high-need-baby/12-features-high-need-baby

and then he states:

*"The neediness of the baby is often in the mind of the parent. Some experienced parents of children have widened their expectations of what babies are "normally" like, and they adapt more easily to a baby with high needs; new parents often are not so realistic."*

This is all that I am saying, that based on my experience, some people (often first time parents) think that their child is really challenging, when in reality, they don't really know what babies are "normally" like. Other peoples babies always seem easier to us because we don't care for them like we do our own.

I guess I find it odd that people will ask a question on a public forum, and then assume that someone is judging their individual circumstances based on the response. I am responding the to question and the times in real life that I have heard the term applied. Again, I stated, if that isn't your situation, then it isn't your situation (i.e. it does not apply to you).


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *carmel23*
> 
> I'm not assuming anything. I merely responding to a poll on a message board. <snip>
> 
> ...


----------



## purplerose (Dec 27, 2010)

I can tell you, from being a mother of 3 and taking so much care of some neices/nephews and other babies over my life, some babies are definately high-needs and life-changing. I thought I knew everything about babies after having two kids and all my experience with other babies (and I even have a special needs relative who spent many, many days and nights with us when he was a baby!) I KNEW how to handle a newborn, how to sneak in a shower between feedings, clean the house, cook...well when #3 was born it was all over from the very first night. That child blew all those things I knew out the window and left me a wreck. I'd only seen moms online talk about having one of these babies and I just thought they were over-reacting to having a new baby  How can you not take a shower? You just need to relax! Yeah, new babies are hard but not THAT hard. Then I gave birth to one and WHAM!! I had to learn what those women learned. It took me over 8 years to feel like I could handle another baby after that. It was half a year before I actually read Dr. Sear's high needs pages; I thought something was wrong with her, or maybe I had stressed her out in-utero or while she was born or something. I got so little sleep that I was scared to even go to sleep at night for fear I'd sleep walk and hurt her. I cried after reading the links, it wasn't my fault!! There wasn't something wrong with her!

I firmly believe that if you do not have a true high-needs baby you will never understand. I had to eat my words. All babies are hard and stressful at first and it does take awhile getting used to it, but there's a MAJOR difference between a normal baby and a high-needs one.


----------



## carmel23 (Jul 21, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> If people want to assume that someone saying they have a high needs baby is just exaggerating, then people will assume that. I prefer to believe that people know what their own experiences are like.


Storm Bride,

Instead of making assumptions, let's respond to the text. Are you not horribly offended by the Dr. Sears quote, where he is saying essentially the same thing that am stating?

I'll state it once more, yes there are high needs babies, but the term is over-used. Now I am done with this thread.


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I did respond to the text, right here:

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *carmel23*
> 
> *I'm of the mind that well, its a baby and all babies are high needs! They're babies! * *Part of it is parental expectation (like they think they baby will be a certain way, but then the reality of caring for a baby 24/7 is something else--and they think it is a high needs baby, when it just, a baby!).*
> 
> ...


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *carmel23*
> 
> Are you not horribly offended by the Dr. Sears quote, where he is saying essentially the same thing that am stating?
> 
> I'll state it once more, yes there are high needs babies, but the term is over-used. Now I am done with this thread.


No - he's not saying the same thing you were saying.

*"In some ways all babies are high need babies, and most babies have high needs in at least one area of their life. Some have more high need areas than others."*

http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/fussy-baby/high-need-baby/12-features-high-need-baby

and then he states:

*"The neediness of the baby is often in the mind of the parent. Some experienced parents of children have widened their expectations of what babies are "normally" like, and they adapt more easily to a baby with high needs; new parents often are not so realistic."*

Note the use of "some babies" and "at least one area of their life" and "often in the mind of the parent". That's not what you said. You said, "all babies are high needs".

If you've now changed your mind, and think that there really are high needs babies, then there's really nothing further to discuss. (If you thought that all along, then why didn't you say it, instead of dismissing the whole idea with "all babies are high needs"?)

Mind you, I also sort of disagree with Dr. Sears about adapting more easily. I didn't adapt more easily to dd1 than i would have as a first-time mom. I just blameed myself less than I might have, because ds2 hadn't responded the same way to my parenting approach, so I knew that it was largely about dd1's personal inborn temperament, not about me. It was still a really, really hard three months, but at least my self-blame quotient wasn't through the roof.


----------



## APToddlerMama (Oct 5, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *carmel23*
> 
> maybe my point of reference is all high needs babies? I don't know...
> 
> ...


Okay, sorry, you don't get it. Woke every 2 hours? Once DS was finally down to waking *only* every two hours, he was over a year and a two hour stretch of sleep ONCE a night was all I got. Then, we figured out he wasn't just dairy/soy intolerant, but intolerant and/or allergic to literally 20 plus foods. And crawling at 4 months? Try not walking at 17 months and doing hours of EI and home programming each week on top of going to a billion specialists. What you describe isn't what most of us describing our "high needs" kids are talking about. I don't doubt that you've encountered people unwilling to accept that a baby will change their lives, but I think the majority of us on MDC who are calling our kids "high needs" are doing so for very good reasons. It is really aggravating to me to read such dismissive posts from people who have supposedly "BTDT" but clearly haven't.


----------



## purplerose (Dec 27, 2010)

Gosh I sure didn't adapt to my high-needs baby. I was a huge mess the whole first year and beyond. Waking every hour, nursing constantly, not being willing to be put down, not being away from me without screaming (and I don't mean crying, I mean screaming). I had a funeral to go to, a wedding to be in, so there were a few times she had to be babysat and it was awful. There was no way I could adapt to that. After having two typical babies/toddlers, then having a high needs one, I was a horrible mess and I decided I'd never have another child because I couldn't handle another one like that. Of course I'm now pregnant again but my high-needs baby will be turning 9 years old when this one's born....it took this long to get over it enough to not be terrified to possibly go through that again. I'm still a little scared but hopefully this one will be more typical. I was not healthy living on such a miniscule amount of sleep during that time. All I remember is the crying and nursing and being up all night and all day, dark days, my older children were deprived of me. I love her, I never didn't love or want her, but it was SO HARD. And she was early at everything, walking, talking, potty training, very smart. What's been really weird about her, really unexpected, is that she's adapted very well to major changes, like her toddler bed(oh did I mention she would NOT co-sleep? what sleeping she did had to be in my arms sitting in a chair, or in the floor...not on any kind of bed, so when she finally did sleep through the night it was in a crib because by 16 mths she'd sleep in a crib), moving to a new house, things like that. She's the one child I've had who at bedtime would get in her bed and lay there and go to sleep and not ever come out til morning(this was about age 2 or so). When she wanted to go to art classes at age 4 she walked into the room and said, "Ok mama, bye, you can go now!" and didn't look back. I guess perservering with the AP as much as she needed gave her the confidence to deal with things alot of other kids her age weren't good at dealing with.


----------



## littlest birds (Jul 18, 2004)

First of all, I believe them.

I immediately think something even simpler: "this parent is maxed out by their child" "Life is stressful for them. I can relate."

I realize it is the parent's perception I am hearing. IDK if this child has higher needs than average or not, but obviously the parent feels that their child requires a lot "more" from them. Now, whether I think this parent may be overreacting to a fairly average child or is really able to put it in perspective will depend on what I know about both child and parent. Does the parent seem balanced, is s/he experienced with other children, what is my impression of the child, etc.


----------



## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

its v. interesting people bringing up single and multiple children.

i have an only (not by choice).

and really i didnt even think high needs. i thought this is what parenting a child was like. same way when i had thrush i thought the burning was a part of getting used to bfeeding till at my docs visit he found i had been suffering thru thrush on my nipples for a month. i think i was finally there coz one nipple was way too sensitive to nurse on anymore.

dd was a different kind of high needs. she was a stimulation monster. and still is. she NEEDS her physical, social and intellectual need met. as a baby taste was huge for her. she cannot sleep if her curiousity is not met. at 2 weeks one time she would NOT stop crying for hours during the day no matter what i did. so i started walking inside the house as stepping outside increased her intensity. when we came to teh pantry - pin drop silence like a light switch. that was what she wanted. to look at the pantry.

dd is fast approaching 9. i still find her high needs. in a different way. probably there's another label for her now. but i am constantly on my toes now. looking back even thru those sleepless nights - thru all that physical hardship i suffered, what i am going thru now is ten times harder in my books. because i see her question things and demand things she shouldnt now. she just does not have the emotional maturity to deal with it. she asks me questions i struggle to answer. she questions actions for which i have no answer. it is hard for me to see her carry the weight of the world on her shoulders. the hard part is sometimes i have to leave her to discover the answer herself and watch her agonize over it.


----------



## skyisblue (Jul 28, 2011)

i first just wanted to mention that some are saying that high needs is a food related issue. They are completely unrelated! High needs is an inborn high maintnance personality. food related issues would be categorized under terms like "food intollerance".

i would say that in some cases the term is innapropriately used. some parents feel that if their child is going through a stage that they are now high needs/spirited. but a personality is not something you sometimes have. and high needs is a personality. going through a phase is something you sometimes have. and really if you have not experienced having a high needs/spirited child you would not understand. i worked as a nanny and in child care (along with also going to college for child development) for 12 years prior to having my own children so for me it had NOTHING to do with what some might perceive as having too high of expectations for a first child. i've been there done that! my first is high needs. i had no idea there was a term for it untill she was at least 1, maybe 2 when i came across a brief explanation in a parenting book by dr.sears. at first the doctor chalked it up to colic. as she got to be an older infant someone said that maybe she was just frustrated because she was not mobile yet. she started crawling and she still cried all the time... let me back up... when she was born she cried all.the.time! at night she would wake up screaming for me to nurse her 3-5 times a night (we co slept, she had no reason to scream, i was right there!) within a 10 hour period. during the day, even as a newborn, she would take a few naps, totalling 1 1/2-2 hours. the rest of the day she screamed, not cried. it was hard to settle her and i felt like a horrible mom. what mom can't hold their baby to settle them? me! she only wanted to be held a certain way, swayed very swiftly, in front of a high powered fan. she wanted nothing to do with swings, strollers, vibrating bouncers, or even slings/front packs. she ONLY wanted to be held. i had to go from one thing to another very quickly to settle her. if i did bubbles she would be content for a minute then i would have to move to something else. any little thing set her off and i was on egg shells. there was nothing she didn't cry about. anyway back to "she started crawling"... she was still crying. then i thought maybe she's frustrated she isn't walking. when she was walking she was still crying all the time. then i thought maybe she wanted to be more verbal and the issue was that we had a language barrier and if only she could tell me what she wanted. she talked early and i have been commented that she speaks very adult like for her age. by the time she was 2 my second was born... easy going and slept well in comparison. my 2 year old was STILL crying more than my newborn. and since becoming mobile has also become very aggressive and violent. i swear if the detroit lions hired my 4 year old as a line backer they would start winning. with the last few years of training her about being gentle and not invading personal space, she still has no concept. every.little.thing. bothers her and everything turns into a battle. she wants everything and nothing all at the same time (ex. if she is crabbing that her hair is annoying her she will still refuse to fix the issue by putting her hair up). she lives just to be contrary, even to herself, on a daily basis (ex. if she says she wants a particular thing for lunch and i give it to her she will say she doesn't want it... and i don't offer her something different, she gets what she asked for or she gets down. ex.2 she finally agrees to wear a particular outfit after i've given her a choice of a couple outfits, or she's picked it out herself and as soon as i try to put it on her she suddenly will have a melt down and start kicking her clothes off her feet as i'm putting them on... yes she can dress herself at 4 but she daudles and i have to remind her constantly so sometimes i just have to do it myself to try and make it a quicker process.)

now my youngest who i said was easy going... she has had to deal with her sister's aggressiveness towards her for so long that she has become needy of me. she is the smallest one and finds refuge in me whereas she used to be content with the shelter we call our house. would i call her high needs since she has become needy? no! her neediness is a circumstance of her surroundings. for her it is not an inbred personality issue. but my 4 year old's spirited/high needs attitude has been there since the day she was born. i just didn't know why my baby seemed to have such a depressing attitude. funny, i should have guessed... in one of my ultrasounds she had the back of her hand laying across her forehead and while laying there i jokingly exclaimed "there's my drama queen"  my second, on the other hand, had a thumbs up, lol


----------



## minkin03 (May 28, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy*
> 
> It's still hard to read some of the 'all babies are high needs' responses. I expected my baby to be a lot of work. I knew he'd need to nurse every 1-3 hours. I knew he wouldn't sleep through the night. I knew he'd want to be held all the time. I knew he'd spit up a bit. I knew I might spend my nights pacing around or rocking him. I didn't know that many days he'd nurse non-stop for 24 hours straight, even at 2 years old. I didn't know I'd never ever be able to leave him alone while he slept. I didn't know even my DH wouldn't be able to hold him while I ran to the bathroom. I didn't know I wouldn't be able to drive anywhere with him. I didn't know that no amount of rocking, singing, swaddling, bouncing, and loving would calm him down, that more than 20 of 24 hours would be filled with crying, that he would sleep only in 20-minute increments... I had seen lots of babies (and have seen many since) but have yet to see a baby like DS. It breaks my heart. I put EVERYTHING into being my son's mother. EVERYTHING. I left my office to work from home. I nursed him on demand, even if we topped 30 times a day and I was writhing in pain. I gently soothed him to sleep every 20mins all night long. I let him come to the bathroom with me, have perfected peeing while holding or nursing, have never left his side for more than an hour or two, and not at all for his first year+. I spend hours and hours reading and researching how to be the best mom I can be for him, how to help him with his sensory issues, how to keep him from withdrawing. I have put my heart, mind, body, and soul into this, and it's STILL not enough. It's hard for me to believe all babies are like this, because if they were, our species would cease to exist.


(((HUGS)))) I understand your frustration. My first daughter had reflux as an infant and the first 5 months of her life was pretty much what you just described. I think it's unfair to classify all babies the same. Yes, all babies have needs that need to be met but some are easier than others and until you have one with high needs you have no idea how difficult it can be.


----------

