# Bad parent moment need advice.



## robin4kids (Jan 20, 2004)

So my son is 14 and is in 8th grade. He is a social butterfly to say the least. He has many friends and in the past year has discovered that the girls he saw as friends could be girl friends. So he has had a few "girl friends" but they never lasted more than a couple weeks and he never went on dates with them.

Well now he has a girl friend and it is moving way faster than we ever expected. He met her through another friend and every time he went to the other friend's house this girl would too. We are just now figuring this out.

Well he asked if she could come over and watch a movie with him in his room. We have a projector, so he thought he would project the movie and they would sit on his bed and watch it. We said she could come over, but they would have to watch it in the living room. They did, but it was a movie not appropriate for our 4 younger children, so even though we were checking on them, there were moments when they were alone.









So there they are laying next to each other on the couch. After the movie i told them that they need to go outside. That was when I noticed the hicky on my sons next!!! Oh boy I flipped out!

I sat the 2 of them down and told them both that that can not happen again. DS goes to a Catholic school he can't have that showing. Hickies (how do you spell this word?) are slutty and trashy. That they were both better than that. Hickies also were like putting a sticker on yourself that you are owned and this is wrong. Well you get the picture. It went on for a few minutes and I was not nice. I did end that i wanted to get to know her, but that the 2 of them had to be with other people at all times.

Well ds has so unhappy when she left. He says I don't trust him, that I made her cry and that I ended his social life.

Later we went into talk with ds. he was in the bathroom. dh looked on his computer and ds was chatting with girl friend. She said she was very upset and that I was a C**T. She went on to say some other things as well about me.

We had to have another conversation with ds about the fact that a girl friend should not be calling your mother such awful words. All she is doing by using those words is confirming our opinion of her.

Back ground: this girl is the youngest and has 2 much older sisters. My ds is our oldest in the family and so is setting the example for younger sibs.
On the one hand:
Well I feel awful and know I did not say the right things. I am afraid that i may have ruined our relationship.
On the other hand:
Dh and i agree that we are a lot more conservative then we ever thought. We think that girls are a distraction for ds and could lead to a bad place. He is such a great kid, we need to protect him. We don't think that the way they were touching and kissing each other is appropriate at this point. We need to set up better rules.

So there it is. sorry it is so long.


----------



## EricaE (Aug 1, 2003)

I also tend to be pretty conservative, and I would have to agree about wanting to protect your son. I would not be okay with my young son 'going out' with a girl that referred to me as a c**t. And I would not be okay with him having a hicky, especially knowing that she gave it to him while sitting on your couch, with you near by! My only concern is that if you forbid him from seeing her, then he's going to sneak around to see her other places. At this age, relationships never last very long, so hopefully in another week or two she'll be history.


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

It's not okay for her to call you a c**t, but it also wasn't okay to call her a trashy slut, and I can almost guarantee that's how she took what you said about hickeys. People don't react well to being called names. What makes it any worse for her than for you?

As for the rest, I really don't know what to say. You _can't_ "protect him" from his own interest in the opposite sex. I've seen parents try it and it's never turned out well, to say the least. (My friend who used to cut class to have sex in her bf's van had parents who didn't "allow" her to date, for example.) If he's interested in girls, he's interested in girls. Setting yourself up as an obstacle and enemy isn't going to change that...but it could negatively impact your influence on him.

I disagree with the pp who said that relationships at this age never last very long. DS1 had a girlfriend when he was 14, and it lasted over a year.

So - no answers, but I hope you can work though this.

ETA: Just to clarify, I realize that you didn't actually _call_ her a trashy slut, but I'm sure that's how she felt. I doubt that she's even remotely interested in getting to know you at this point, and is probably wondering why you think it's okay to call her names, but not the reverse. I'm just thinking about how some parent/teen interactions I've been involved with (from both sides) have played out. I'm not saying it's okay that she called you that.


----------



## enkmom (Aug 30, 2004)

I agree with Storm Bride. Calling hickies trashy and slutty means the person who gave it to him is a trashy slut. I would cry if someone said it to me, and I'm sure that your son is humiliated that you spoke to a girl he cares about that way. I would start with an apology.

I have always welcomed the people my children chose to date, and encouraged them to spend lots of time at our home. When they were younger, it helped me to keep tabs on the situation and reassure myself that they treated each other with respect. There is nothing wrong with monitoring what goes on, but I don't think he needs you to "protect" him, and he will probably resent you if you try. Watching your babies turn into teens and young adults with sexual feelings is hard, and awkward, and sometimes scary, but you can't keep it from happening. I did not like everyone my children brought home, but I wasn't about to set up some Romeo & Juliet situation where they had to sneak around.


----------



## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
It's not okay for her to call you a c**t, but it also wasn't okay to call her a trashy slut, and I can almost guarantee that's how she took what you said about hickeys. People don't react well to being called names. What makes it any worse for her than for you?

I totally agree. You opened the door.

I also think that you and your DH shouldn't be snooping on his conversations. Up to now, everything you and your DH have done will most likely make your son more secretive, but have no other effect on his behavoir.

Your son likes girls. He's growing up. The only other options would be for him to like boys or to have something wrong with him (like autism) and just not get why people like each other. (I have a child like that).

Rather than trying to stop what you cannot stop, come up for some realistic guidelines for dating -- such as school events, church youth events, family events, going someplace to gether with a parent to chaparon (like the skating rink) etc. Talk to your son. Apologize for your behavoir (which you know was out of line) and find a way to let him grow up in a reasonable and safe way.

If you ever see the girl again, you owe her a complete and full apology. You were completely out of line and had no right to say that to her. You should never speak to someone your child is involved with like that, no matter what they were doing . You were just out of line.

I also think that all teens deserve full access to information about sex, including birth control. If I had a son, I would make sure he understood exactly how babies are made and not made, why using a condom every single time protects HIM, and the importance of neither pressuring another person or going along with what someone else wants to do. It goes both ways. Some boys really don't realize that they can say no to girls, and some boys are pushy.


----------



## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

A more productive conversation would have been to make sure that they both understand how sexual activity at their age could affect their future lives. A baby at 14 would be a really bad idea.

I think you owe both your son and his girl an apology. You're the grown-up and you should know better. Then invite her over for dinner and set down the ground rules for them.


----------



## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

In your position, I would probably sit down with them again and 1) apologize for reacting the way you did and acknowledge that some of the things said were inappropriate/hurtful and 2) start an discussion about why you feel they need to ease up on the physical side of the relationship.

I would also have a one on one discussion with DS about what is allowed and what isn't, make sure there are clear guidelines and that it is an actual discussion as opposed to "This is how it's going to be" speech. If you and DH haven't discussed sex in detail, do that as well, as PPs have mentioned he has the right the information and there is a very good chance when given the information in a respectful manner that he will surprise you in how intelligently he can handle that and understand why he should limit the physical aspect of the relationship. Also, I wouldn't get to uptight about kissing in general. At 14 there is no guarantee that kissing leads to sex, heck even at 24, 34, 44, 54 there is no guarantee that kissing leads to sex.


----------



## happysmileylady (Feb 6, 2009)

I have a 14 year old girl. I can say that I likely wouldn't allow her to watch a movie "alone" with a boy that I didn't know well. However, our television set up wouldn't really allow it-our big fancy cool movie watching tv is the family tv and the only way for the younger ones to avoid it would be to be upstairs alone and that, well, wouldn't happen at this point either.

However, while I understand the "freak out," I have to say that THAT is probably exactly how your son and his gf saw it, as a total freak out. The way that it reads to me, it seems as if everything was totally cool, you were ok with them laying together and were checking in and seemed ok...and then you suddenly swooped in and freaked out on them.

Again, I understand, maintaining my composure if I noticed a hickey on DDs neck would be difficult. But, I also know that, having gotten pg with her at 17, swooping in like that is exactly the way to get him to shut you out. IMHO, a better approach might have been to stop them before they head out, call them back in and ask, is there something you want to tell me? Because judging by the mark on your neck, there have been some things that have been going in here that I should be aware of. And then, if you don't get very far with that with her there....at least discuss it with your son in private. You can't be his gf's parent and trying to act like it, particularly if you don't know her well, is only going to make her react as she did. But, certainly talking to your son after she is gone, finding out what happened, explaining calmly that you don't approve and exactly why, is appropriate.

Also, making it about appearances (how your son can't have that seen at a Catholic school and how it LOOKS trashy and slutty, how it looks like you are owned) is I think the worst way to drive the point home. Because I assume what you were really against is that they were having some mild form of intimate activity, not that you don't want it to look like your son is trash, right?

Again, I do know, all easier said that done.


----------



## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

Quote:

We had to have another conversation with ds about the fact that a girl friend should not be calling your mother such awful words. All she is doing by using those words is confirming our opinion of her.
As your son's mother you should NOT be lecturing his girlfriend. Send her home & lecture your son(who was a willing participant in this), but you have no rights to do that to her.

did you have this opinion of her BEFORE this happened?


----------



## Kreeblim (Dec 19, 2009)

Just as a side there is a big difference between calling your boyfriend's mother a c**t to their face during a fight (which didn't happen), and venting about what was probably a VERY embarrassing situation to your boyfriend in private. You gotta figure she's 14 years old, super upset, TOTALLY embarrassed by being told that something she participated in is "trashy and slutty" and feeling completely attacked. Even as an adult I would be MORTIFIED if my private vent sessions with my husband about my Mother-in-law were read word-for-word by her right after some type of blow up like that. I mean, I may be a little bit too mature to use the c-word, but she'd still be horribly offended at whatever she read.

If you can't actually trust your child enough to give him real privacy, at least let the name calling slide and try to stay mostly concerned about really serious issues (like heroine or pregnancy test references for example). In reality we all say things in private about others that we would not want them to hear, and may not really believe once we calm down. Blowing up about it will backfire HARD.


----------



## ikesmom (Oct 29, 2005)

Robin..I have to admit I probably would have flipped out if my kids were engaged in that behavior under my roof. It is just a lack of respect in my view. I would say if you and DH didn't sit down and talk to your DS about what is ok and not okay behavior..contact..ect then you need to do that. I don't know if I would apologize to the girl..honestly I think she should apologize to you. I think hickies are trashy and my kids aren't going to have them. My older sister came home with a tattoo on her hand as a teen..my mom put her hand under the tap and tried to scrub it off ..with a scrubber







Needless to say I never came home with one or even a temporary or pen. I never had a hickey either..minus the one you give yourself on the hand lol.

I also will mention that I have a wonderful relationship with my mother..talk to her everyday. Her discipline didn't make me love her any less. My sister not so much , but she fights with everyone.


----------



## enkmom (Aug 30, 2004)

ikesmom, may I ask how old your children are? There is absolutely no way to enforce that your kids will not have hickies.


----------



## ikesmom (Oct 29, 2005)

Ok..yeah that comment sounds kinda like I think I can control it..haha. I know that kids will break rules..what I mean is that I am not going to LET them mess around if I know it is happening and that includes hickies. If they break rules then they loose freedom. My kids are 15, 13, 10, and 4. The oldest is learning now..yes the hard way. We don't let her date yet and she hasn't shown she is mature enough to date. I know everyone will have a different view on what age is ok- I think that in many kids eyes they think dating is doing couple stuff with someone. We are a little on the stricter side of parenting. I want to try my hardest to teach boundaries..I think having visitors is a great start to dating..If they can handle it at home then they can earn the right to more freedom.


----------



## chiromamma (Feb 24, 2003)

Ummm. So I'm going to stick my neck out here so to speak.
Having given and received many a hickey in my teenage years, I don't get the big deal. If you feel like it needs to be covered, get out the make up. Make him wear a turtle neck.
I assume it was above the waist. They were making out and a little nibbling ensued.
It's not like you walked in on them and she was giving him a blow job or anything.
I would think this situation is a door that's been flung wide open for you and your husband to have an open and frank discussion about physical and emotional intimacy.
Absolutely share your values and have house rules. But always keep the communication open.
My mom had a similar reaction when she found me making out with a boy when I was a teenager. I can tell you, that judgment constructed a wall so high and so thick.


----------



## raksmama (Feb 20, 2005)

Glad to know I was not the only teenager who got a few hickeys!
I was starting to feel very sheepish!
I am not saying they are great, but I don't think they are the end of the universe. A hicky on the neck does not mean they are going to make a baby.
While it was not okay for the girl to call you a c..t, I agree with others who say you're saying hickies trashy equate calling the girl trashy, at least in her mind. You are grown up and she is 14. I think the apology should be from you if you want to set things right.
Also you need to tell your son, not the girl what your limits in the house are.
I personally would rather allow my son a little more freedom in the house rather than have him sneak outside.


----------



## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Am I the only one thinking that teens with moms who freak out over hickies are *more* likely to end up with hickies in places that their mom can't see?

(I was sooooooo rebellious as a teen.)

Also, because I foster an open and honest relationship with my kids, I know what their friends are up to. You cannot stop your child from having girlfriends/boyfriends. You can set things up so that everyone knows but you, but you can't stop it.


----------



## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ikesmom* 
Ok..yeah that comment sounds kinda like I think I can control it..haha. I know that kids will break rules..what I mean is that I am not going to LET them mess around if I know it is happening and that includes hickies.

Speaking from the experience of my teen year and those of my friends, you will simply not know what is happening.


----------



## rainbowmoon (Oct 17, 2003)

i think you waaaaay overreacted. i think you owe his friend and your son an apology personally. after all YOU are the one who allowed it to happen by leaving them alone,correct? I just don't see the big deal in a hickey. it's a bruise. even though unsightly lots of 14yo's get and give them.

what will you do when he starts having sex? even when I was in 8th grade (20+years ago) tons of my classmates were having sex so don't think it can't happen!

I think you should stay out of it personally and let him face the consequences at school.


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jalilah* 
Glad to know I was not the only teenager who got a few hickeys!

I got them, too...and gave more than a few. I think they look _ugly_ now, and I'll admit to kind of going "errrk" when ds1 (16 at the time) came home with one, but...c'est la vie.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Linda on the move* 
Am I the only one thinking that teens with moms who freak out over hickies are *more* likely to end up with hickies in places that their mom can't see?

No, you're not. That thought crossed my mind, too.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
Speaking from the experience of my teen year and those of my friends, you will simply not know what is happening.

Yes. This. I remember a friend whose parents said she wouldn't even date until she was 16. They thought she didn't. She was dating, making out, having sex and sneaking out at night, all before they even thought she'd kissed a boy.

I certainly don't think teen sex is inevitable, but I think whether or not it happens has more to do with the teen's beliefs, self-discipline and priorities (oh - and libido) than with the parents. There are things parents can do to guide our kids into making good choices, but they're still the ones making them. (I'm on the other end of things. I kind of assumed my teen would be sexually active - because that's what I'm used to - and I'm about 99% sure ds1 isn't. He has other things going on, and watching me go through a bunch of pregnancies, c-sections and a stillbirth has given him a much better than average grasp of the potential consequences of sex.)


----------



## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Linda on the move* 
Am I the only one thinking that teens with moms who freak out over hickies are *more* likely to end up with hickies in places that their mom can't see?

(I was sooooooo rebellious as a teen.)

Also, because I foster an open and honest relationship with my kids, I know what their friends are up to. You cannot stop your child from having girlfriends/boyfriends. You can set things up so that everyone knows but you, but you can't stop it.

I'm with you. Minus the rebellious part. I HATE hickies, and always have. I was known for getting mad at guys for giving them to me (b/c they're ugly of course). Anyway, I think if you continue in this manner you are going to really encourage (unintentionally) very limited communication between you and your son and will soon find yourself out of the loop.

Does your son's catholic school have comprehensive sex ed? If not then now would be the time to make sure he understands about condoms, STI's, pregnancy and how it all happens and works.


----------



## ikesmom (Oct 29, 2005)

I don't want to be my kid's friend..I am their parent. If they get mad because I won't let them have hickies, sex, ect then they get mad. I am not going to let them make the rules.

I think the teen years are not the time to leave them to their own..or stay out of it. That is the problem with so many teens today..their parents let them make too many choices too soon. Staying out of it could lead to sex and pregnancy. I am not ready to raise a grandbaby/ies at this point. Remember this boy is in 8th grade..that is really young. If a girl gets pg and she doesn't take care of it..most boys are not ready at that age.

My mother raised my nieces and nephews and I had to do a lot of parenting too while at home.. because my sister never wanted to be a mom..but loves every guy she meets.

My girls have tried to sneak and lie..they are learning that we will keep getting stricter if they do this. I plan on doing what it takes to raise them the best I can. I am not going to throw my hands up and say "I can't stop my kid from getting hickies, pg, ect..

I think my kids need to establish themselves before dating and being influenced by someone else. I think it is my role as a good mother to try to teach them to respect themselves and their bodies.

You do have a choice Robin


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ikesmom* 
I don't want to be my kid's friend..I am their parent. If they get mad because I won't let them have hickies, sex, ect then they get mad. I am not going to let them make the rules.

I think the teen years are not the time to leave them to their own..or stay out of it. That is the problem with so many teens today..their parents let them make too many choices too soon. Staying out of it could lead to sex and pregnancy.

Having sex leads to pregnancy. Staying out of it has nothing to do with it. I don't involve myself in ds1's love life at all. He's not having sex. Lots of teens whose parents _do_ involve themselves _are_ having sex. It's not about being a friend, not a parent. It's about recognizing that our teens _are_ sexual beings. We can't make them not be.

Quote:

I am not ready to raise a grandbaby/ies at this point. Remember this boy is in 8th grade..that is really young. If a girl gets pg and she doesn't take care of it..most boys are not ready at that age.
Agree. I'm not sure what that has to do with flipping out on a couple of early teens exploring their sexuality and telling them they're "trashy and slutty".

Quote:

My girls have tried to sneak and lie..they are learning that we will keep getting stricter if they do this.
Okay. I truly hope that works for you. I have to say that, ime, it very rarely does. You know what the guys I went to school with called girls from very strict family backgrounds? "Nymphos". I had a guy tell me once he loved it when a girl told him she wasn't allowed to date, because it meant she'd "put out". I don't think that's always true, but parental strictness about sex is almost always counterproductive, ime.

Quote:

I think my kids need to establish themselves before dating and being influenced by someone else. I think it is my role as a good mother to try to teach them to respect themselves and their bodies.
But, what you're teaching them is that it's up to someone else (you) what they do with their bodies. How does that foster self-respect? This sends the message that they need to ignore their own sexuality.

And, I'm not sure what any of that has to do with the OP. There's no way that flipping out at someone and calling their behaviour "trashy and slutty" is going to foster respect of any kind.


----------



## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ikesmom* 
That is the problem with so many teens today..their parents let them make too many choices too soon.

I totally disagree. I think the problem with teens to day are two fold. First, they are teens, and while a lot of people like to pretend they are some how radically different than teens 30 years ago, I just don't see it. Second, parents don't spend enough time with their kids. Just time -- playing board games, going for walks, going out for coffee WHAT EVER!. I think that just *time* is very important.

My parents had a ton of rules and it really didn't work for me. When I left home (still as a teen) I had nothing to build on. I'm far more concerned with teaching my DDs to how to make good choices rather than dictating stuff to them for the very, very short period of time that I can get away with that. It really gives them nothing to build their lives with.

I talk to my DDs about the emotional impact of becoming sexual with another person and how to access birthcontrol (either without my help or by asking me for their insurance card).

I parent my kids, but I'm realistic about the fact ultimately they will make their own choices with their lives.


----------



## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ikesmom* 
My girls have tried to sneak and lie..they are learning that we will keep getting stricter if they do this. I plan on doing what it takes to raise them the best I can. I am not going to throw my hands up and say "I can't stop my kid from getting hickies, pg, ect..


While I can hear in your post that you care about your kids, this quoted part makes me really sad for you dd's. I guess the way it relates to the OP is that somehow there is a sense that we as parents can prevent hickies, making out, interest in other young adults that may or may not have a sexual component to it. I don't think it's respectful, and I also think that you're assuming too much power here. Ultimately our kids are going to be out there on their own, making good choices and bad. Why are your dd's sneaking and lying?


----------



## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ikesmom* 
I don't want to be my kid's friend..I am their parent. If they get mad because I won't let them have hickies, sex, ect then they get mad. I am not going to let them make the rules.

I think the teen years are not the time to leave them to their own..or stay out of it. That is the problem with so many teens today..their parents let them make too many choices too soon. Staying out of it could lead to sex and pregnancy. I am not ready to raise a grandbaby/ies at this point. Remember this boy is in 8th grade..that is really young. If a girl gets pg and she doesn't take care of it..most boys are not ready at that age.

My mother raised my nieces and nephews and I had to do a lot of parenting too while at home.. because my sister never wanted to be a mom..but loves every guy she meets.

My girls have tried to sneak and lie..they are learning that we will keep getting stricter if they do this. I plan on doing what it takes to raise them the best I can. I am not going to throw my hands up and say "I can't stop my kid from getting hickies, pg, ect..

I think my kids need to establish themselves before dating and being influenced by someone else. I think it is my role as a good mother to try to teach them to respect themselves and their bodies.

You do have a choice Robin

By the time I was 14 I had far more freedom then most teens, by 15 every choice made about my life was _mine_. Anecdotal, yeah, but but my dad never had trouble with me being sneaky. He voiced his opinion and trusted me to make the right choice because he spent his time before that raising me to be an adult. Guess what? I rose to the challenge. Yeah I made mistakes, who doesn't, but I fixed my own mistakes and dealt with the consequences myself. At 17 I moved out with DH and became a step-dad. Yeah my dad was a parent, he was also a friend, and he was someone I could trust to not impose his view of the world on me when I was having trouble coming to a decision. He was someone I could trust not to react negatively when he 'caught' me doing something he didn't agree with. And for all of that, I gave him the benefit of the doubt and took his opinion seriously.

On the other hand, DH's parents were very big on not letting him have any control over his life. And just like you, the more he snuck around the stricter they got. He was a full-time single dad at 16, his gf had no desire to be a parent so he took over. For all they refused to admit he was not a child, he proved himself an adult when it mattered.

My experience from watching friends is the stricter you are with teenagers, the more they rebel. They do that because they are _not_ children, and treating them as incompetent in making their own choices only results in them making dumb choices because the only other option is to lose their autonomy to their parents.

I hope it works out for you, but I honestly cannot see it being all that successful.


----------



## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Add: I also remember hearing in a sociology class once that teens who are given very strict rules by their parents are more likely to go overboard when they move out and get into serious trouble because they aren't allowed to "test the waters" so to speak. They are so used to being controlled, they haven't yet learned how to control themselves.


----------



## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

I have an 18yo son and a 16yo daughter. And, quite honestly - not a heck of a lot of rules. We have basics, which we all pretty much abide by. Yes, I like to know where they are and with whom - so that if I NEED to reach them, I'll be able to. I provide them the same courtesy. If, God forbid, something were to happen and one of us couldn't reach the others, we'd know who else to try getting hold of.

When it comes to sexual activity - we talk A LOT. And have for quite a while. I don't judge, I don't condemn. I give them my thoughts and why I think it would be better for them to hold off on being sexually active. Lots of talk about their goals and aspirations and how a pregnancy would impact them, etc. But with the understanding that *I* cannot make that choice for them.

And ya know... they actually TALK to me. I know what every one of their friends is up to - the good and the bad. And again - I provide my input. It's worked so far!


----------



## mysticmomma (Feb 8, 2005)

oh my


----------



## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

mtiger - I hope to have that kind of relationship with my kids into their teen years.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ikesmom (Oct 29, 2005)

Wow
Wow
Wow









God bless you all..and Robin I hope you work it out with your boy and that you can both feel good about your decision.


----------



## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
parental strictness about sex is almost always counterproductive, ime.

It was here. I never once had any sort of talk with either of my parents about dating/sex/birth control/etc. At 17 years old my parents found out I was having sex (and drinking and... and... we won't go there). What did they do? Ground me. So much easier to ground a child than to actually TALK to them. They grounded me until my 18th birthday (at which time they had no control over me, and knew it). I was only allowed to go to school (with a parent dropping me off and picking me up) and work (again, a parent dropping me off and picking me up). I couldn't see my friends ever outside of school.

I was dating ds's bio-dad at the time. He was not in school so I wasn't "allowed" to see him.

But did being grounded stop that? Nope. I would sneak out of school and he'd come pick me up and bring me back to his house (and you can imagine what happened there...). I would be back to school before my dad came to pick me up. Ex would come pick me up at school and we'd *ahem* be frisky in the parking lot of my school. My 18th birthday came and I went right back to hanging out with all my friends (including ex), like nothing had ever happened.

I was pregnant before my 19th birthday hit







Still to this day (I'm 26), I've never talked to either parent about sex.


----------



## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chiromamma* 
Ummm. So I'm going to stick my neck out here so to speak.
Having given and received many a hickey in my teenage years, I don't get the big deal. If you feel like it needs to be covered, get out the make up. Make him wear a turtle neck.

I never dated until college and I don't get the big deal either. I mean, if they'd specifically broken a rule to not do xyz, I could see being upset at them breaking the rule. But if they were just supposed to keep it "PG", then







:

How about having him invite her to something where you can actually meet her?

In my family it was "we don't date, well group dates with a crowd would be okay, until 16 in our family. While we know YOU can be trusted, waiting until you're 16 makes sure that you'll be able to handle it if, God forbid, someone you date is less than honorable."

As it's worked out, I didn't date until nearly 18 and married him (baby after almost 8 years of marriage). My little brother started going on group dates at 15 and is marrying her this Sept (







: on a niece or nephew about 9 months later







).


----------



## proudmomof4 (Aug 29, 2006)

Anyone else here starting to appreciate how hard it must be to be the MIL?









In my humble opinion, your best bet is to keep the channels of communication open. Still, I can relate - I was a bit miffed a couple of weeks ago when my daughter had a visitor who reportedly left at 5:30h whom I had never met before.

I'm not "staying out of it", I'm trying to communicate to my daughter that it's her body and her decision and I've brought up contraceptives. (She's almost 17 with a recently aquired boyfriend.) While I don't want to actively "encourage" her I'd much rather she tried "it" with appropriate protection and our roof over their heads (instead of in some parking-lot).


----------



## arihillfarm (Nov 1, 2007)

Quote:

By the time I was 14 I had far more freedom then most teens, by 15 every choice made about my life was mine. Anecdotal, yeah, but but my dad never had trouble with me being sneaky. He voiced his opinion and trusted me to make the right choice because he spent his time before that raising me to be an adult. Guess what? I rose to the challenge. Yeah I made mistakes, who doesn't, but I fixed my own mistakes and dealt with the consequences myself. At 17 I moved out with DH and became a step-dad. Yeah my dad was a parent, he was also a friend, and he was someone I could trust to not impose his view of the world on me when I was having trouble coming to a decision. He was someone I could trust not to react negatively when he 'caught' me doing something he didn't agree with. And for all of that, I gave him the benefit of the doubt and took his opinion seriously.
I could have written this too. My mother and I never had much of sex discussion until I had been with my then boyfriend about a month at age 16 and then I was whisked off to her OB/GYN (the same one that delivered me, LOL!) to get put on the pill. She was always open about sex and by the time I was 15-16 years old, figured if she hadn't done her job as a parent by that time, it was too late and she pretty much left me alone. At that point she became more friend than parent and that shift in the relationship meant so much to me at a time when I needed that in order to become my own person. She was waaaay tough on me when I was younger, but it was worth it for the several years of freedom to make my own choices. I still chuckle when I remember her asking if my boyfriend at the time was a virgin also and when I said yes, she sighed, rolled her eyes and said something about the blind leading the blind and that I should find someone else more experienced, LOL! Sometimes it was a little awkward, but I loved







my mom for her open-mindedness at that time. It's because of her that I have now and have always had a heathy, mature and responsible attitude about sex. I hope to do the same for my children.

-Astrid


----------



## prothyraia (Feb 12, 2007)

We all tend to agree that it's not okay to use shame to discipline toddlers and small children.

The same is true for teens. Whatever your values and expectations are, you need to communicate them in a more respectful way if you expect young adults to listen.


----------



## fresh_veggie (Jan 27, 2009)

I think an apology and a sex-ed course are both in order.

In my experience, it's the secrecy/abstinence/controlling parents that get kids in trouble. I agree - and see it daily - kids who aren't allowed to "test the waters" get in way more trouble.

Not to say that you should let your kids do whatever, but sitting back and saying there's nothing you can do isn't right either.

Information and life experience can go a looonnngg way. Emphasizing the possible consequences of being sexually active would've been amazing from my parents, but my mom is the type that never even told my about my period. Needless to say I used wads of toilet paper because I was too ashamed of myself to ask her, for years even. If I needed birth control, I believe that I likely would've no used protection out of embarrassment and ended up in way more trouble, just because the walls built up between me and my parents were way too high and thick.

I think you overreacted about the hicky, but it can be undone if you approach the situation with a calm and educational approach.

When my DH and I were engaged (21 and 23 yrs old), he ended up with a hicky, just barely visible at his collar. His dad made him go get some make-up, and that was that. It was to keep MIL from finding out and having a COW. Which she would've. Over the past few years, she has successfully destroyed any chance of having a relationship with us, calling me vile names and constantly putting us both down. This is painful, and I honestly tried to put up a good face for a long time, forgiving and forgetting. But she's out of control. And I'm not so-called "slutty" - I'm a loving, supporting wife to my DH. Being loving and understanding goes a lot farther - as your reaction can shape your own view of this girl, and her and your son's relationship.

I disagree that "relationships at that age don't last very long." In fact, from personal experience and with my friends, middle school/early high school relationships last much longer on average than later teen relationships. Imagine if your son stayed with this girl for a few years - it would be painful for both of you. I don't think you can talk about respect when your words were very harsh and unfair, and then read a private conversation. Your job was to talk to your son privately, not to this girl. A hicky is not that big of a deal, and denying sexuality can lead to dysfunction and resentment. Education would be a much better path.

Also, I realize I come from a different background than you, so feel free to disregard my views and ignore my tangents. Good luck!


----------



## proudmomof4 (Aug 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *prothyraia* 
We all tend to agree that it's not okay to use shame to discipline toddlers and small children.

The same is true for teens. Whatever your values and expectations are, you need to communicate them in a more respectful way if you expect young adults to listen.

That's right and the OP is most likely aware of that. After all, this is the "bad parent moment need advice" thread.
It just sounds like she wasn't really ready for "that" yet. ("My baby has a girlfriend? No way!")


----------



## chiromamma (Feb 24, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *prothyraia* 
We all tend to agree that it's not okay to use shame to discipline toddlers and small children.

The same is true for teens. Whatever your values and expectations are, you need to communicate them in a more respectful way if you expect young adults to listen.


----------



## amynbebes (Aug 28, 2008)

I can't say for sure how I would have reacted. I don't know that I would have sat her down but definitely my son. Hickies do happen in the teen years but their gross and I certainly don't want my teens running around with them.


----------



## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

Why are hickies gross? They are harmless (can't catch or spread a disease with them), don't cause pregnancy, don't hurt anyone and are a relatively benign way of expressing and building intimacy with someone (sucking is, afterall, how we all bond with our parents after birth). Yes, i agree that it's not ideal to be in a position where you are labelling or bieng labelled by a partner, "mine" BUT it's a relatively normal part of first relationships to do so, as teens express their devotion and demand it returned. I would be mad if my child had a hicky they had expressly refused, but otherwise, i don't get why it's a big deal. Why is it slutty to nibble and suck on the skin of someone's neck?


----------



## green betty (Jun 13, 2004)

As I read this thread, it keeps occurring to me that spilling my teenager's private sexual/emotional/relationship business out on the internet seems a whole lot "trashier" than a hicky could ever be. Doesn't he deserve honesty, respect, and consideration from you? Does he know about this thread? What do you think he would say if he found out?

If you want advice, I would suggest worrying a bit more about your own morals and behavior and a bit less on trying to control whether and how teenagers make out. IME kids learn more from what we do than what we say.


----------



## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *green betty* 
As I read this thread, it keeps occurring to me that spilling my teenager's private sexual/emotional/relationship business out on the internet seems a whole lot "trashier" than a hicky could ever be. Doesn't he deserve honesty, respect, and consideration from you? Does he know about this thread? What do you think he would say if he found out?

If you want advice, I would suggest worrying a bit more about your own morals and behavior and a bit less on trying to control whether and how teenagers make out. IME kids learn more from what we do than what we say.

I'm sorry-I think you're out of line. Are you suggesting that the OP is immoral for coming to this forum to post? Please.

The OP came w/a title to her post: Bad Parenting Moment-Need Advice. She was looking for input, and has gotten a lot of straight talk here, some of which may have been hard to hear. She wasn't, IMO, looking to sensationalize her teenager's issues on the internet. She was seeking input. I think attacking her is out of bounds.

We all come to this forum with tricky age related questions. I have personally learned more here than I ever imagined I would. I love it. Don't post here if it's not your cup of tea.


----------



## green betty (Jun 13, 2004)

Perhaps we'll have to agree to disagree, then. I don't consider my comments an "attack", although I readily admit they are blunt. The OP asked for advice and I gave mine. I think an honest and introspective appraisal of her own behavior would be the very most helpful step to take in this situation.

And do I consider it immoral to discuss the private sexual/romantic life of another person in a public internet forum without their knowledge (and with the suspicion or knowledge that they would not want that)? Yes, I do. I would never do that to my own child, and (thinking of the mother of the girl in this situation) I would be apoplectic to discover that someone else had. You, the OP, and the rest of the world are free to disagree.


----------



## raksmama (Feb 20, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karne* 
I'm sorry-I think you're out of line. Are you suggesting that the OP is immoral for coming to this forum to post? Please.
The OP came w/a title to her post: Bad Parenting Moment-Need Advice. She was looking for input, and has gotten a lot of straight talk here, some of which may have been hard to hear. She wasn't, IMO, looking to sensationalize her teenager's issues on the internet. She was seeking input. I think attacking her is out of bounds.
We all come to this forum with tricky age related questions. I have personally learned more here than I ever imagined I would. I love it. Don't post here if it's not your cup of tea.

I agree, When someone writes a post asking for advice, it is clear that they themselves are not sure about what to do. The OP was asking for advice. I think one should not have to feel intimidated about asking for advice in this forum. The title of her post is *bad parent moment need advice*.


----------



## prothyraia (Feb 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *proudmomof4* 
That's right and the OP is most likely aware of that. After all, this is the "bad parent moment need advice" thread.
It just sounds like she wasn't really ready for "that" yet. ("My baby has a girlfriend? No way!")

Oh, absolutely; I just felt like some of the responses were justifying that sort of treatment, and the tone of the OP still had a lot "omg, this is disgusting!" to it. I think letting go of that visceral reaction and simply talking to the kids with more respect would go a long way to repairing any damage. "I'm sorry I spoke to you two that way; I was surprised and scared because I believe that premarital sexual behavior is a negative thing because of x,y.z, and we value a, b, c."

Quote:


Originally Posted by *green betty* 
As I read this thread, it keeps occurring to me that spilling my teenager's private sexual/emotional/relationship business out on the internet seems a whole lot "trashier" than a hicky could ever be. Doesn't he deserve honesty, respect, and consideration from you? Does he know about this thread? What do you think he would say if he found out?

This is a relatively anonymous forum on the internet; people ask for all kinds of advice about dealing with other people in their lives (Parents as Partners, anyone?). I'm not sure how one would ask for advice about dealing with their children's sexuality without actually discussing what was going on.


----------



## lach (Apr 17, 2009)

I'm going to have to agree with the others that you freaked out and you owe your son an apology. Hickies are not trashy or slutty. They're really embarrassing as a teenager: let that be punishment enough! I remember suddenly being SOOO happy that my mother had a penchant for buying me Lands End turtlenecks with cutesie little graphics on them. OMG, what teenager in the height of the Grunge years was going to wear a turtleneck with little Christmas scotties on it? They were heinous and awful and might have been cute on a 6yo and I never wore them... but wow did they come in handy the first time I got a hickey! And after that, I learned that hickeys go where no one will see them









I also agree that it is not surprising that she called you names. You mortified both her and your son, and so of course they ran into eachothers arms to vent. If your MIL started screaming at you over anything, you'd be saying some not terribly nice things about her to your DH or your friends as you vented.

Now, I'm quite okay with a tiny bit of mortification to keep your teens in line... but it's gotta be subtle. Like, Lands End Christmas turtlenecks. Okay, maybe not Christmas, but the way to handle this is to say "ahem, you seem to have a bruise on your neck. I assume you got it while playing basketball. Ahem. I got you a turtleneck to wear while it heals. You're going to have to wear it to school, because I'm not gonna be able to help you when the nuns see it." Trust me, that's aaaaaall the punishment a 14yo boy needs for preventing visible hickeys.

And I also agree that the kids with the least freedom take the most. My parents were died in the wool hippies who were eternally mortified by their totally square children. I didn't have sex or do any drugs until I went to college. My high school boyfriend would come over, and they'd go out. They were so specific. "We'll be at the library, and it closes at 9, so we'll be back about 9:10. You guys have fun!" OMG it was so embarrassing. We'd go sit on the couch and watch a movie. There's nothing that ruins the mood more than having your parents think that you're getting some action right then! Meanwhile, his mother made his younger sister babysit us, so we'd sneak a little bit of cuddle time whenever possible at his house. Makes no sense, right? That's teenagers for you.

There's nothing wrong with having ground rules, but trying to micromanage his relationships is just going to backfire. I'm sorry, but it does. I would sit down and apologize to him. Tell him that sometimes parents freak out when they realize that their kids are growing up, and that your reaction was inappropriate. Tell him to tell his girlfriend that you're very sorry for what you said to her.

Suggest something that you can invite her along to: where I am it's fun fair season, maybe suggest that she be invited and then they can go off and ride some rides and you guys can all meet for dinner afterwards. Or the beach or a hike or something like that: something where they can get some alone time and you can also get to know her a bit more. Trust me, she doesn't want to do an event where she'll have to spend the whole time hanging out with you guys. It will also help legitimize the relationship a bit more, which should cool things down a bit more. If Romeo and Juliet has taught us nothing else, it's that young kids in love do really stupid stuff when they think they have to be all secret about it.

Make sure that he has all the appropriate books about puberty and sex. Make sure he knows how to use a condom. Give him a condom and a banana and make him put it on in front of you: that'll cool a lot of passion, I promise. Tell him that at his next well visit appointment, you're going to tell his ped that he has a girlfriend and ask the ped to make sure that your son has all the appropriate information.

Make sure that he knows the numbers. By the age of 15, only about 13% of teens have had sex. By the time they graduate from high school, only about 50% of teens have had sex. It is NOT TRUE that "everyone else" is doing it. He should never, ever let anyone pressure him into doing anything that he isn't comfortable with.

Good luck. I don't think that you're a bad parent: I think that you overreacted and flew off the handle. You handled the situation poorly, but it's definitely not too late to fix it.


----------



## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

I've been following this and I keep coming back to a couple of questions. First, if I read this right, she gave him a hickey, right? So, did he even know she was doing it? For that matter, did she? As a young teen, I distinctly remember being surprised the first time I realized what I had done -- it wasn't on purpose, I swear! So, you may have made a huge deal out of something that was already not going to happen again. And even if she knew exactly what she was doing, it doesn't follow that he did or that he knew how to stop it without it becoming a huge issue. These seemingly little things are great big huge deals when you are just starting to date.

You can control your reaction to things. You can control some of the logistics of your son's life (but realistically not all and less and less as he gets older). You cannot hope to control another's person's child. All in all, I think you best response is to set reasonable guidelines and limits, make sure he has good information about both biology and your values and expectations, and the realize that you cannot control another person. Even at 2 or 8 or 10 there were something things you couldn't control about his body. And at 14 or 16 or 20 there are even fewer.

And can someone please make a note that I just said this and remind me when my son gets past tween to actual teen? I have a feeling that is one of those "easier said than done" sorts of areas.


----------



## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evan&Anna's_Mom* 

And can someone please make a note that I just said this and remind me when my son gets past tween to actual teen? I have a feeling that is one of those "easier said than done" sorts of areas. 

I shall store it in my file cabinet and present it too you when the time comes.


----------



## Kindermama (Nov 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *prothyraia* 
We all tend to agree that it's not okay to use shame to discipline toddlers and small children.

The same is true for teens. Whatever your values and expectations are, you need to communicate them in a more respectful way if you expect young adults to listen.

I agree.

You might want to do some inner work on why you feel that physical affection or "necking" between 14 year olds is "slutty" and "trashy". The truth is 14 year olds are experimenting with affection. This is an opportunity for you to connect with your DS to keep the bridge open while he learns the ins and outs of relationships and his own sexuality. All you've accomplished so far is putting up a brick wall of shame and guilt and disappointment.


----------



## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Well, I guess that's put an end to any possible future discussions of any more than the weather between OP and her son


----------



## amynbebes (Aug 28, 2008)

*I* think they're gross for anyone because well, I do. I think there's a certain connotation that comes with them and I certainly wouldn't want my teen going around displaying proof to the world that they just made out with someone.


----------



## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lach* 

Now, I'm quite okay with a tiny bit of mortification to keep your teens in line... but it's gotta be subtle. Like, Lands End Christmas turtlenecks. Okay, maybe not Christmas, but the way to handle this is to say "ahem, you seem to have a bruise on your neck. I assume you got it while playing basketball. Ahem. I got you a turtleneck to wear while it heals. You're going to have to wear it to school, because I'm not gonna be able to help you when the nuns see it." Trust me, that's aaaaaall the punishment a 14yo boy needs for preventing visible hickeys.


This whole post was GREAT - but this part especially cracked me up!!! I'm going to be remembering this when DS is 14!


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amynbebes* 
*I* think they're gross for anyone because well, I do. I think there's a certain connotation that comes with them and I certainly wouldn't want my teen going around displaying proof to the world that they just made out with someone.

Despite having given and received hickeys as a teen (and my mom hated them), I think they're gross, too. They look kind of like bruises, and they're very unattractive.

That said...if our teens are old enough to be "making out", what we do or don't want them displaying to the world isn't really relevant. What _they_ choose to display to the world is key.


----------



## proudmomof4 (Aug 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
Well, I guess that's put an end to any possible future discussions of any more than the weather between OP and her son









Wait, not so fast. So Mom overreacted and in her son's eyes she probably screwed up big time. I still trust her to have a solid base of communication with her son she can build on. (And I should probably be thankful myself that my children haven't kicked me out of the house yet?)


----------



## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
Despite having given and received hickeys as a teen (and my mom hated them), I think they're gross, too. They look kind of like bruises, and they're very unattractive.

That said...if our teens are old enough to be "making out", what we do or don't want them displaying to the world isn't really relevant. What _they_ choose to display to the world is key.

Same here. I had to laugh when someone said their kids aren't going to have them.

The whole protecting my innocent son from girls bit in the OP is really offensive.


----------



## Trigger (Apr 20, 2010)

OP - Sorry, but I think you overreacted. Hickeys happen, even to "good" kids, and you had NO right to throw your parenting on someone else's kid like that. You could have simply asked her to leave, and then spoken privately with your son.

And

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
The whole protecting my innocent son from girls bit in the OP is really offensive.


----------



## churndash (Mar 25, 2009)

As the mother of a teenage girl, I find the notion that your son is such a "great kid" who needs to be "protected" from slutty, trashy girls who want to give him hickeys really offensive.

Um...was your son not there _getting_ the hickey? She didn't tie him down and force the hickey on him, did he?

Heck, he was the one who wanted to watch the movie upstairs, alone, in his bedroom.

Maybe this girl needs to be protected from your son!

I'd be very angry that I sent my 8th grade daughter to someone's home and they left her unsupervised with their son long enough for a makeout session and hickey-making to occur.

Next time, don't leave them alone. Don't let them watch movies that are inappropriate for the rest of your family to see. And don't blame the girl for behavior that your son willingly participated in.

And yes, you owe that girl an apology. Let me tell you, if my daughter came home telling me her boyfriend's mother spoke to her that way, I'd be at your doorstep with a few choice words!!


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
The whole protecting my innocent son from girls bit in the OP is really offensive.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *churndash* 
As the mother of a teenage girl, I find the notion that your son is such a "great kid" who needs to be "protected" from slutty, trashy girls who want to give him hickeys really offensive.

This. I had meant to comment on this before, and it kind of escaped me. The whole tone of the "girls are a distraction" and wanting to shelter him really makes me mad. I was a "trashy, slutty" girl in high school, and so were many of my female friends. Trust me, we weren't out trying to find innocent little choir boys and corrupt them - we were engaging in various degrees of sex acts on a completely _consensual_ basis. Heck, OP...your ds could have even been the initiator.


----------



## KaylaBeanie (Jan 27, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Linda on the move* 
I totally disagree. I think the problem with teens to day are two fold. First, they are teens, and while a lot of people like to pretend they are some how radically different than teens 30 years ago, I just don't see it.









My mom says this all the time. Her generation (she graduated in 1981) was having more premarital sex, drinking more and smoking WAY more pot than my generation.

In my experience, there are two types of teens; the ones who immediately round home plate, and those who take their time getting there. Your son is exploring natural desires, and making out in no way implies that he will be having sex anytime soon. He's at the age where making out is really exciting, and there's nothing shameful in that. As for the hickey, it isn't your neck and I HIGHLY doubt many other people will look at it and think you're a bad mother. He is the one who has to live with the embarrassment of a visible hickey. Like many PPs, I have had exactly one visible hickey in my life, and it was mortifying. Kissing isn't bad, especially not at 14. Hickeys, while not the most attractive thing, aren't bad. I'm sure it is very hurtful to have been called that by the girlfriend, but keep in mind that she was completely and utterly humiliated, and 14 year olds aren't exactly known for their tact.


----------



## proudmomof4 (Aug 29, 2006)

OP, how's it going on the hickey front?


----------



## Mountaingirl79 (Jul 12, 2008)

I agree with the quoted poster and also several previous posters. I can understand the freak out, but I think it's time to also go back and have some open communication over why you freaked out.
When I was 14, my parents, bless their hearts, were very very strict. ( We have since made peace with that now that I am an adult and we have had long talks about what worked and what didnt....)

I wasn't allowed to date, have boys over, or talk on the phone to boys even. What that resulted in was me sneaking around, meeting boys on the sly, and having sex. Yup. I felt smothered by my parents and felt the urge to break free. lol Thankfully, I had very good sex ed programs in school and was always "protected" during sex and did not have any teen pregnancy scares.

Give him the info he needs and give him the space to use it...trust him and you cant go wrong....thats just my HO. 

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lach* 
I'm going to have to agree with the others that you freaked out and you owe your son an apology. Hickies are not trashy or slutty. They're really embarrassing as a teenager: let that be punishment enough! I remember suddenly being SOOO happy that my mother had a penchant for buying me Lands End turtlenecks with cutesie little graphics on them. OMG, what teenager in the height of the Grunge years was going to wear a turtleneck with little Christmas scotties on it? They were heinous and awful and might have been cute on a 6yo and I never wore them... but wow did they come in handy the first time I got a hickey! And after that, I learned that hickeys go where no one will see them









I also agree that it is not surprising that she called you names. You mortified both her and your son, and so of course they ran into eachothers arms to vent. If your MIL started screaming at you over anything, you'd be saying some not terribly nice things about her to your DH or your friends as you vented.

Now, I'm quite okay with a tiny bit of mortification to keep your teens in line... but it's gotta be subtle. Like, Lands End Christmas turtlenecks. Okay, maybe not Christmas, but the way to handle this is to say "ahem, you seem to have a bruise on your neck. I assume you got it while playing basketball. Ahem. I got you a turtleneck to wear while it heals. You're going to have to wear it to school, because I'm not gonna be able to help you when the nuns see it." Trust me, that's aaaaaall the punishment a 14yo boy needs for preventing visible hickeys.

And I also agree that the kids with the least freedom take the most. My parents were died in the wool hippies who were eternally mortified by their totally square children. I didn't have sex or do any drugs until I went to college. My high school boyfriend would come over, and they'd go out. They were so specific. "We'll be at the library, and it closes at 9, so we'll be back about 9:10. You guys have fun!" OMG it was so embarrassing. We'd go sit on the couch and watch a movie. There's nothing that ruins the mood more than having your parents think that you're getting some action right then! Meanwhile, his mother made his younger sister babysit us, so we'd sneak a little bit of cuddle time whenever possible at his house. Makes no sense, right? That's teenagers for you.

There's nothing wrong with having ground rules, but trying to micromanage his relationships is just going to backfire. I'm sorry, but it does. I would sit down and apologize to him. Tell him that sometimes parents freak out when they realize that their kids are growing up, and that your reaction was inappropriate. Tell him to tell his girlfriend that you're very sorry for what you said to her.

Suggest something that you can invite her along to: where I am it's fun fair season, maybe suggest that she be invited and then they can go off and ride some rides and you guys can all meet for dinner afterwards. Or the beach or a hike or something like that: something where they can get some alone time and you can also get to know her a bit more. Trust me, she doesn't want to do an event where she'll have to spend the whole time hanging out with you guys. It will also help legitimize the relationship a bit more, which should cool things down a bit more. If Romeo and Juliet has taught us nothing else, it's that young kids in love do really stupid stuff when they think they have to be all secret about it.

Make sure that he has all the appropriate books about puberty and sex. Make sure he knows how to use a condom. Give him a condom and a banana and make him put it on in front of you: that'll cool a lot of passion, I promise. Tell him that at his next well visit appointment, you're going to tell his ped that he has a girlfriend and ask the ped to make sure that your son has all the appropriate information.

Make sure that he knows the numbers. By the age of 15, only about 13% of teens have had sex. By the time they graduate from high school, only about 50% of teens have had sex. It is NOT TRUE that "everyone else" is doing it. He should never, ever let anyone pressure him into doing anything that he isn't comfortable with.

Good luck. I don't think that you're a bad parent: I think that you overreacted and flew off the handle. You handled the situation poorly, but it's definitely not too late to fix it.


----------



## PatienceAndLove (Jan 5, 2008)

Well, I am going to post something that is going to be unpopular and I will probably get flamed for it.

OP-
I think you were in the right. Using "trashy and slutty" may not have been the best terms to use, but I do think that including her in the lecture was a good idea. If she is going to be seeing your son, she needs to know exactly what your thoughts on things are.
I think that a call to her parents are in order, on to explain what happened (I am assuming she cried and her parents may know that), to apologize for the "trashy and slutty" comment, and to work out a plan for the future among all of you.
Perhaps there needs to be a moratorium on one-on-one time for quite a while. Group dates and gatherings only is a good thing. Game night, movie night, etc. With plenty of supervision, of course.

At 14, I wasn't allowed to be alone with boys. If a boy came over to watch a movie, I had to invite other friends over, as well. And if no one else could come, at least one parent was in the room with us. We also got quite the talk before hand regarding what my parents considered appropriate behaviors. Of course, I had been raised with these view points, and I shared them. Most of the time, the young man was already aware of the "rules" long before my parents told him.
As for reading his IM, good for you! I am assuming that you purchased the computer, and that he is using it with your permission. This, in my mind, makes it your computer and you are well within your rights to monitor what is on it.

As for where to go from here, I cannot tell you- but I do know than an apology to DS and girl, for the "trashy/slutty" comment, are in order.
I also think a good long discussion regarding the holiness of sex and physical romantic affection is in order. Perhaps you all can read "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" and "Theology of the Body for Teens" together?
What worked for me was my parents stressing the holiness of physical romantic expression. If he is attending Catholic school, he has gotten a bit of this message, but probably not a lot of it.


----------



## sarahwpen (May 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lach* 
I'm going to have to agree with the others that you freaked out and you owe your son an apology. Hickies are not trashy or slutty. They're really embarrassing as a teenager: let that be punishment enough! I remember suddenly being SOOO happy that my mother had a penchant for buying me Lands End turtlenecks with cutesie little graphics on them. OMG, what teenager in the height of the Grunge years was going to wear a turtleneck with little Christmas scotties on it? They were heinous and awful and might have been cute on a 6yo and I never wore them... but wow did they come in handy the first time I got a hickey! And after that, I learned that hickeys go where no one will see them









I also agree that it is not surprising that she called you names. You mortified both her and your son, and so of course they ran into eachothers arms to vent. If your MIL started screaming at you over anything, you'd be saying some not terribly nice things about her to your DH or your friends as you vented.

Now, I'm quite okay with a tiny bit of mortification to keep your teens in line... but it's gotta be subtle. Like, Lands End Christmas turtlenecks. Okay, maybe not Christmas, but the way to handle this is to say "ahem, you seem to have a bruise on your neck. I assume you got it while playing basketball. Ahem. I got you a turtleneck to wear while it heals. You're going to have to wear it to school, because I'm not gonna be able to help you when the nuns see it." Trust me, that's aaaaaall the punishment a 14yo boy needs for preventing visible hickeys.

And I also agree that the kids with the least freedom take the most. My parents were died in the wool hippies who were eternally mortified by their totally square children. I didn't have sex or do any drugs until I went to college. My high school boyfriend would come over, and they'd go out. They were so specific. "We'll be at the library, and it closes at 9, so we'll be back about 9:10. You guys have fun!" OMG it was so embarrassing. We'd go sit on the couch and watch a movie. There's nothing that ruins the mood more than having your parents think that you're getting some action right then! Meanwhile, his mother made his younger sister babysit us, so we'd sneak a little bit of cuddle time whenever possible at his house. Makes no sense, right? That's teenagers for you.

There's nothing wrong with having ground rules, but trying to micromanage his relationships is just going to backfire. I'm sorry, but it does. I would sit down and apologize to him. Tell him that sometimes parents freak out when they realize that their kids are growing up, and that your reaction was inappropriate.

Make sure that he has all the appropriate books about puberty and sex. Make sure he knows how to use a condom. Give him a condom and a banana and make him put it on in front of you: that'll cool a lot of passion, I promise. Tell him that at his next well visit appointment, you're going to tell his ped that he has a girlfriend and ask the ped to make sure that your son has all the appropriate information.

Make sure that he knows the numbers. By the age of 15, only about 13% of teens have had sex. By the time they graduate from high school, only about 50% of teens have had sex. It is NOT TRUE that "everyone else" is doing it. He should never, ever let anyone pressure him into doing anything that he isn't comfortable with.

Good luck. I don't think that you're a bad parent: I think that you overreacted and flew off the handle. You handled the situation poorly, but it's definitely not too late to fix it.


Man! I think you have the best, most practical post in this thread, that IS worth repeating!


----------



## WCM (Dec 15, 2007)

OP, I truly understand your reaction and point of view. I hope you are doing well reading all this information that others are offering.

I used to be one who read emails to get more info. Of course I would never admit that I did that, because I preached respect.







But then I'd end up with information I couldn't act on, but it was so under-my-skin-driving-me-nuts that I just went crazy and learned (over time) that I had to not read other's communications or eavesdrop on phone calls. I completely understand you were coming from a place of needing info, worry, sudden onslaught of new situations. But I think it's worth considering if the info you gained actually *helped* you and this situation or just made it harder for you.

I would've freaked out too. I hear you, and feel no judgement. I read this forum specfically to learn from others who run into things before I do, so I' in a calmer (hopefully) and more grounded place when they do come my way.

I got hickeys at summer camp one year (bible camp no less!). I was pretty clueless about them, but the boys liked giving them to me, and I knew boy's attention was somehow important in life, so I let them. When I got home the mortification stopped me from ever wanting them again, nor giving them. But I was definitly a girl who aimed to please boys ( I had/have big please-males issues) and I would do anything a boy asked me to, which earned me the slutty rep you have of hickies and your son's girlfriend. For me it was never stuff that was my idea, but I was never taught to say no or that my brain mattered more than my body. Just offering a different perspective on teenage girls. (and I don't mean to say that teens can never respectfully both choose to be sexual togetherand have it be a healthy thing.)

An apology would really help things between you and your son and his GF, I think. And I personally find apologies are best when they come from a place of sharing why we freaked out, what our fears are, etc. I think that would show your son and GF that you respect them enough to talk to them like friends/adults, and not just speak from a position of power. You have said you didn't react well. I bet they'd love to know you feel that way.

I hope things are good with you these days, however you've handled it.


----------



## Mama Soltera (Dec 13, 2009)

I'm not quite here yet, but my son will soon be a teenager and I just want to thank you all for this thread. It is really helpful. I have to agree that my friends whose parents were the strictest about sex and boys in general were the ones sneaking off to have sex with all kinds of boys every chance they got. That scares the hell out of me. I have a lot of open, frank conversations with my kids already (I have a daughter who is just starting puberty too) and so this discussion is very timely. Thank you all.


----------



## greenmama_1963 (Feb 28, 2006)

I understand totally. I have a 13 year old daughter who is in the 8th grade as well and right now, She hates me.
She finally discovers boys and thinks that I don't understand. She called me a jerk and a freak and I am broken into. How do I cope with this for the next 5 years until I get my independence??


----------



## Mama Soltera (Dec 13, 2009)

Greenmama,

I think it would be good to start your own thread for this so you will get more replies. That all sounds very hurtful and frustrating. I wish you luck. hugs


----------

