# Anyone check themselves out of the hospital shortly after birth?



## Artisan (Aug 24, 2002)

I had a planned hospital delivery with a midwife when my DS was born. The L&D unit was excellent -- big, beautiful rooms, jacuzzi tubs, etc. However, after birth, they move you to the "Mom and baby unit", which was awful. There are only TWO private rooms on the whole unit -- every other room is shared. (And of course, both private rooms were taken when I was there, so I had to share.)

I arrived in my "mom and baby room" (which is such a misnomer, it makes me angry) after being in labor all night, not having slept well in WEEKS, and ready for a big breakfast and a giant nap. Instead, I had a roommate who watched movies rather loudly, had no fewer than 18 visitors tromping in and out of the room over the course of the day, and did not allow me to sleep. In order to get to the bathroom, I had to walk past her half of the room and I didn't feel comfortable doing that in front of all of her guests.

The big clincher was that this hospital has a rule that if your baby is in your room, you must have the lights on at all times. So, at night, the baby either has to be in the nursery if you want the lights off, or you can have the baby in your room, but must keep the lights on. Believe me, I raised a HUGE fit, had my DH and the midwife complain to management, etc., but they refused to budge. I turned the lights off, and the nurses would come in and turn them back on. They claimed the nurses needed to be able to see to do vital sign checks.

You all know how vulnerable you feel after giving birth -- I was in a lot of pain, SOOOO exhausted, and just wanted to snuggle my baby and sleep.

So, here's my dilemma. I really liked the midwifery practice I used -- they have a freestanding birth center -- but my DH will NOT hear of delivering there. The midwives only have admitting privelelges at this one hospital, so going to another hospital isn't an option if I want to continue to use these midwives for my next pregnancy.

Has anyone given birth in a hospital and left shortly afterward? Did you have any problems with it? I know if I gave birth in the birth center, I would go home within 4-12 hours, so I would assume I could do the same in the hospital. I had an epidural, so I know I would have to stay until that was completely worn off. Does anyone know of any reason you would have to stay in the hospital longer after having an epidural? Is there any reason you need to be monitored after it has worn off?

If you're still reading, thank you! Sorry for the ramble.


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## Potty Diva (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:

but my DH will NOT hear of delivering there.
But your Dh will not be the one delivering anyone!!! This troubles me







:

As for leaving the hospital early. I was in the ER for 12 hours and after all testing was done, had been waiting another 2 hours, and no one came by with my papers to leave, yet wouldn't tell me what the hold up was. Finally I said for get this, and grab a nurse to tell her I was leaving. She wuickly got the doctor who said that if I left my insurance would not cover it. I would be leaving without medical consent.

Of course I stayed because I am sure a 14 hour ER visit would have been outrageously expensive, then when I got home I called our insurance and found out that it was true









I assume the same would apply to leaving the hospital agter birth if it was against doctors orders. If they allowed you to go, that would be another thing.

Luckily because of crappy insurances, mamas are staying in hospital for shorter and shorter amounts of time.


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## pumpkinhead (Sep 15, 2003)

The hospital I delivered at reccomends *at least* a 24 hr stay, but you can leave before that or you can stay as long as you like. If you have some sort of after care (midwife, public health nurse, mama etc







), I think it's fine to go home whenever you wanna, but if not, it might be better to stay a bit unless you're comfortable going back to the hospital in the event of any complications. There are things like retained placenta, jaundice etc that don't show up for a bit and getting nursing established can be challenging sometimes. If you're using a midwife,doula and/or LC, this usually isn't an issue, as they're very thorough w/ home visits, follow-up etc.

My ds was born at 4:57 on monday and I left at 2 on wednesday. I'd have left sooooooo much earlier, but ds became jaundiced (not serious enough for treatment but made bf'ing challenging)and we weren't getting the hang of nursing as quick as I thought we should be







(first baby, knew NOTHING) and I was a little nervous about this. The nurses and LC at the hospital let me know I could leave at any time or saty as long as I liked. They were very supportive about Bf'ing and came in at all hours of the day and night to help us out. Oh, and there, you *HAVE* to room-in with your babe, it's the only way they do it. Nurses come around to wake you to BF your babe in case babe or you sleep thru it. That whole 'lights on' thing is a huge crock! The buggers!

After we got home, the LC called to find out how we were doing and a public health nurse visited us twice. I could have called her at ANY time to get her to come out to my house as well. She was fantastic!

So, after ALL that, I think it depends on the hospital (if they're supportive or not) and your own comfort level. Next time around, I think I'll leave MUCH earlier.

Bottom line, you need your rest and you need to feel free to bond with your baby however you see fit to .


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## Artisan (Aug 24, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Potty Diva_
[B

As for leaving the hospital early. I was in the ER for 12 hours and after all testing was done, had been waiting another 2 hours, and no one came by with my papers to leave, yet wouldn't tell me what the hold up was. Finally I said for get this, and grab a nurse to tell her I was leaving. She wuickly got the doctor who said that if I left my insurance would not cover it. I would be leaving without medical consent.

Of course I stayed because I am sure a 14 hour ER visit would have been outrageously expensive, then when I got home I called our insurance and found out that it was true









I assume the same would apply to leaving the hospital agter birth if it was against doctors orders. If they allowed you to go, that would be another thing.

[/B]
This is a good point -- I didn't realize this! I will definitely talk to my MW and see if she would discharge me early, to avoid problems with insurance.


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## Potty Diva (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by pumpkinhead_
*The hospital I delivered at reccomends *at least* a 24 hr stay, but you can leave before that or you can stay as long as you like. If you have some sort of after care (midwife, public health nurse, mama etc







), I think it's fine to go home whenever you wanna, but if not, it might be better to stay a bit unless you're comfortable going back to the hospital in the event of any complications. There are things like retained placenta, jaundice etc that don't show up for a bit and getting nursing established can be challenging sometimes. If you're using a midwife,doula and/or LC, this usually isn't an issue, as they're very thorough w/ home visits, follow-up etc.

My ds was born at 4:57 on monday and I left at 2 on wednesday. I'd have left sooooooo much earlier, but ds became jaundiced (not serious enough for treatment but made bf'ing challenging)and we weren't getting the hang of nursing as quick as I thought we should be







(first baby, knew NOTHING) and I was a little nervous about this. The nurses and LC at the hospital let me know I could leave at any time or saty as long as I liked. They were very supportive about Bf'ing and came in at all hours of the day and night to help us out. Oh, and there, you *HAVE* to room-in with your babe, it's the only way they do it. Nurses come around to wake you to BF your babe in case babe or you sleep thru it. That whole 'lights on' thing is a huge crock! The buggers!

After we got home, the LC called to find out how we were doing and a public health nurse visited us twice. I could have called her at ANY time to get her to come out to my house as well. She was fantastic!

So, after ALL that, I think it depends on the hospital (if they're supportive or not) and your own comfort level. Next time around, I think I'll leave MUCH earlier.

Bottom line, you need your rest and you need to feel free to bond with your baby however you see fit to .*
Pumpkin,
The difference is, you're in Canada with healthcare that is afforded everyone. You don't have insurance companies not wanting to pay for more than they absolutely have to.


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

Well, I know my mom walked out of the hospital 24 hours after I was born because they wouldn't allow rooming in and they were giving me some kind of sugar water solution against her wishes. She had a natural birth though, so I don't know how that is affected by an epidural.

Personally, I would be talking with dh about the birth center. His feelings are important, but you are the one giving birth, and need to feel comfortable and confident in your surroundings. I only wish there was a freestanding birth center in my area - that would be my first choice!


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## Ame (Apr 15, 2002)

I signed a waiver - aggreeing not to hold the hospital accountable for my health or my babies health....I left 9 hours after my first born and 6 hours after my second....my third was born at home - unassisted.

They will strongly discourage it and give you lots of what if's....but they can't force you to stay against your will. (as far as I know)


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## Potty Diva (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Ame_
*I signed a waiver - aggreeing not to hold the hospital accountable for my health or my babies health....I left 9 hours after my first born and 6 hours after my second....my third was born at home - unassisted.

They will strongly discourage it and give you lots of what if's....but they can't force you to stay against your will. (as far as I know)*
The problem isn't with whether the doctors care if you go or not, but about insurance.

I know *I* wouldn't want to foot the bill for a hospital birth







:


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## ComeOnLetsGo (Nov 19, 2001)

I left in less than 12 hours after the birth of each of my three. I needed to be home, so I left. They did make feeble attempts to talk me into staying, but I never regretted going home ASAP!


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## Artisan (Aug 24, 2002)

I would assume that if my MW were to sign discharge orders for me 12 hours after birth, the insurance company wouldn't have a problem with that, right?


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## QueeTheBean (Aug 6, 2002)

I left my freestanding birth center 4 hours after giving birth--people thought I was nuts, but it was so much better being home in my bed! I loved it.

I'd definitely work on going to the BC next time. Not sure what DH's objections are, but they won't let you deliver there if it is unsafe--they will transfer you to the hospital.

It was fantastic--best experience of my life! I just don't have enough good words to say about it all.

Sorry you had a bad experience at the hospital.


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## CD_addict (Sep 27, 2002)

HI Sharon,

I think it's in your best interest to find out the specifics of your hospital's policy on discharge for mom and baby after birth. When I had my son, he was required to stay for at least 24 hours although I was free to leave. Of course I couldn't really leave either, then if he was still there!

Maybe you can talk more with your DH about his reasons for not trusting the birth center.


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## Evergreen (Nov 6, 2002)

Talk to DH!!!!!! Ask him to remember how horrible it was to be in a shared room with the visitors and the bizarre lights thing. That sounds downright unhealthy for both mom and baby. If he liked the midwives he should be fine. If he still won't budge remind him you are the one who is delivering the baby, YOU are the one who needs to be comfortable! If you can calmly get him to agree with you, it sounds like he might budge by the time the next baby is born...even show him this thread. If he sees that the hospitals policies are ridiculous (and all of us women who have had babies before agree) he might change his mind.


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## pumpkinhead (Sep 15, 2003)

Okay, I just reread my post, and perhaps I did go on a bit too much, which isn't all that unusual for me...

That said, the *POINT* was that different hospitals have different policies. There ARE hospitals in Canda where they're inclined to rush Mama's out the door before they're ready and I'm quite sure some docs make some mama's stay longetr than they'd like. I guess the dif is that their health care still gets paid for if they leave AMA (against medical advice). Believe it or not tho, some one (TAXPAYERS/GOVERNEMENT)







still has to foot the bill for this care and there IS such thing as private health coverage/insurance, even in Canada.

I know a lady who birthed in Hfx who was booted out the door 12 hrs after birth and she went willingly, to be rushed back by abulance 16 hrs later HEMMORHAGING. Every hospital IS DIFFERENT!


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## Modesto Doula (Dec 2, 2001)

If I were you I would check the hospital's policys. Most hospitals will let you go when your MW clears you to leave, but around here they keep the baby for at least 24 hours. You do, of course, have the right to check the baby out, but they have the right to take custody of the child if they suspect for any reason that the baby's health might be in jeopardy. This includes an infant who has not voided or eliminated, is starting to jaundice, or most any other reason. Its ridiculous.

In order to get home without staying, you should talk to your husband about the birth center. They really are the best of all worlds for low risk moms. They are usually within minutes of a hospital in case there is an emergency and have lower intervention rates. Besides that, you can be home 6 hours PP if thats what you want...


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## Artisan (Aug 24, 2002)

My DH is one of those "What if" people. He RELUCTANTLY agreed to go with a CNM for my prenatal care, as he thought, "WHAT IF you need a C-section? They won't be able to do it." I explained that I would be in the hospital, and that they could just page the on-call doctor should an emergency arise. I did finally convince him, but I think I would have a really hard time with the birth center idea where there is no operating suite and there is no on-call doctor.


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## nancg (Mar 1, 2002)

I did with my DD1, but it was a hassle. It took about 12 hours to get out of there though we were ready much earlier. Even then, we were checking out AMA (had to sign waivers, etc.).

Also, some hospitals just don't do that. Where we're living now, people are lucky to escape with their babies after 48 hours, due to an over-vigilant pediatrics staff.

I had a homebirth with DD2 and avoided the problem entirely.

This is really a decision where you should have more power than your DH. Yes, it is his child too - but your labor, birth, pregnancy, and happiness.

Nancy


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## Oklahoma Mama (Feb 12, 2003)

I tried to leave with my son before the doctor discharged him and was threated that my insurance wouldn't cover anything








We had a horrible pediatrician fill in on the weekend and there was no way he was going to let us go. He was really mad when he found out we wanted to leave despite what he said. He didn't even care that my mom was a pediatric nurse and she was staying with us. Glad we never saw him again! We ended up staying 5 long days due to my son's low birth weight and jaundice and I hardly slept the whole time. It was so much easier to work on breastfeeding at home. I had nurse after nurse tell me different things about how to nurse. Now I wonder if they all had experience nursing. I just tried to listen to the LC. I want to check out as soon as possible this time around too.


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## saintmom (Aug 19, 2003)

I've left the hospital at 12,6,4,and six hours the first two were at home.I,ve never felt safe birthing in a hospital.My hospital labors were mercifully short-less than an hour with no interventions,As if they had time!number seven will be at home.Thank God I found a wonderful midwife and doula.As for any objections dh might raise-he's not giving birth,I am! Dr.Mendelsohn said in one of his books that the smartest thing you can do is get out! quickly after hospital births.the risk of infection from hospital borne bacteria is that great! Good luck.


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## Mothra (Jun 4, 2002)

I'm kind of struggling with the same thing, so this is more of a "me too!" post than any solid suggestions.

The main points seem to be 1) talk to your midwife beforehand and see if you can get support from her 2) talk to your insurance company and make sure they will still pay if you do decide to leave before they clear you.

The hospital where I will be birthing is beautiful-- private LDR/Postpartum rooms (you are in the same room from the time you check in until the time you leave, there isn't even a separate triage area, it is all done in the maternity room), rooms big enough for a laboring woman to feel comfortable with private bathroom with shower (no tub







), and they are nicer than the last few hotels I've stayed in. My issue is that my husband will only have a few days off of work and I want to be at home with him and my kids rather than in a hospital. I'll have plenty of help at home, and know I'll rest better than if I was in the hospital.

When I had my second, I found out that some insurance companies are insisting on at least 24 hours stays for mother and baby to cut down on ER trips for things like jaundice, retained placenta, and other little things that pop up a day later. I know that mine doesn't, but that is the reasoning behind these ridiculous policies. It is all about the money, you know.

I have heard horror stories of social services being called in when mothers try to leave with their babies before the hospital staff is ready for them to do so. The charges, as it were, are almost never are followed through on unless there is really a serious health problem that threatens the baby's life. You can leave whenever you want and no one will care, it is your baby they are "concerned" about. However, that is a hassle I would certainly want to avoid.

I think I'm willing to stay 24 hours, and that is it.


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## Justice2 (Mar 18, 2003)

A miswife I recently interviewed had this to say, and is my suggestion...to both you and my dh "if you have so many restrictions, maybe you should have your baby at home...that would solve all of your problems"







hehehe


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

It is my understanding that Congress passed an Act that required a stay for both mother and baby for no less than 48 hours after birth, nationwide.

I do not know on what grounds Congress can pass such a law, but I know I heard this.

I understand that this was in 1997 under Clinton.


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

My own mom left the hospital in 1961 four hours after the frank breech birth of her fifth child. Her other eight children were born at home, which includes me.


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

I had a friend who delivered her child in a small rural hospital in 1986.

She had planned everything with her OB, including leaving soon after the birth as long as everything was fine.

When she went to the hospital, her OB had left town. She delivered without incident, a medically 'unremarkable' birth, with another OB. She was taken to recovery and no one seemed to know that she planned to leave ASAP. It was no where in her plans or chart.

She argued with every one on the staff, and no one would let her go. They looked at her like she was crazy.

Finally they told her she could go, signing out against medical advice, but the baby had to stay.

My friend stood her ground and demanded to be released with her baby.

Then, a hospital official sent in a form and told her she could leave if she signed the form.........

......it was a DISPOSAL OF DEAD INFANT form.

The hospital told her she could go home with the baby if she agreed to sign the form- it would absolve them of any liability if anything mortally occurred to the newborn because she took her child home.

She signed it.

She went home.


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

Everyday I thank G-d my four were born at home.

This forum just makes me more and more grateful everytime I read posts like these.


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## Modesto Doula (Dec 2, 2001)

The law that Clinton signed was a law requiring insurance companies to PAY for 48 hours after birth, so they couldnt KICK you out. But it doesnt require you to stay.

HTH


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## Artisan (Aug 24, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Modesto Doula_
*The law that Clinton signed was a law requiring insurance companies to PAY for 48 hours after birth, so they couldnt KICK you out. But it doesnt require you to stay.

HTH*
I was just about to say the same thing.


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

Why does the federal government have anything to say about how long a woman is in a hospital after giving birth anyway?

That is my point.

There is nothing in the Federal Constitution that mandates the Congress nor the Exectuve branch to make policy about something so personal as a hospital stay after birth.

I think it is a slippery slope to mandating stays in the hospital for testing of the mother and baby for things they have no business testing for.

The PKU, hypoglycemia, bilirubin, AIDS, HIV, and thyroid test are highly unreliable and are susceptible to different readings and interpretations. Vaccinating your baby against different diseases and experimentations are dangerous things to be avoided.


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## pumpkinhead (Sep 15, 2003)

applejuice,

I don't think they're trying to regulate how long a woman MUST be hospitalized, but rather, they're trying to prevent the insurance companies from kicking us out early. There are women, esp first time mamas, who aren't comfortable leaving the hospital after 6-12 hrs! If this sort of legislation was NOT in place, I'm sure you'd see the insurance companies trying to kick women out 12 hrs after very traumatic births and C-sections all for the sake of the almighty dollar. Granted, a LOT of trauma could be prevented (in some cases) by avoiding a hospital birth altogether, but that's not the point. This has nothing to do with testing or vaccinating either.

I stayed in the hospital an extra day (40 hrs in total) as my ds was jaundiced and we weren't getting the hang of bf'ing as quickly as I'd have liked. I was apprehensive and was assured I could stay as long as I liked and could leave when I felt comfortable (a benefit afforded to me as a Canadian, and sadly not to the rest of the world, I know). THis support enabled me to stick it out and overcome our difficulties.

Bottom line, if a woman choses to have a hosiptal birth, she should have the right to also choose how long she stays there. Insurance companies shouldn't be able to control the purse strings here. I agree with you that the Gov't shouldn't be able to either, but insurance companies are vicious and don't give a royal rip about people. W/o this sort of legislation, they'd take advantage.


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

What makes you think the federal government gives a royal rip about anyone either?

I have posted everywhere on these forums about the shabby treatment at the hands of the VA, the Social Security Administration, CPS, GAO, Department of Education, local police department and my own Congressman.

If you think the goverment has your best interests at heart, think again.

Today they protect you from insurance companies dumping you out on the street immediately after birth. Tomorrow they will mandate tests and drugs for everyone in order to obtain treatment. They have the power to turn a healthy laboring woman away from the hospital in a triage emergency in the community. This is in the Master Emergency plan of every state in the Union.


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

RE: testing - most laboring women are tested for AIDS whether they like it or not. Babies are tested for PKU, a hypoglycemic condition, and thyroid disease.

RE: vaxing - All babies received the Hepititis Vaccine whether you want it or not.

Babies are also given Vitamin K and eye prophylaxsis for gonorhea in the mother.

The camel's nose is already under the tent.


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## dharmama (Dec 29, 2002)

I've been lurking on this thread all along but not posting. I'm curently planning a hospital birth (but at the same time exploring homebirth). So far at the community hospital where I would be birthing....working with one of two really great midwives....I've had trouble finding too much that I object to (and believe me...I'm trying).

Quote:

RE: testing - most laboring women are tested for AIDS whether they like it or not.
Totally optional for me. In fact my midwife told me...this is optional...you have the right to refuse it.

Quote:

RE: vaxing - All babies received the Hepititis Vaccine whether you want it or not.
I've talked to my midwife about this too and she said it's OUR DECISION....we can delay or refuse.

Quote:

Babies are also given Vitamin K and eye prophylaxsis for gonorhea in the mother.
I'm still researching both of these...but my midwife said all newborn procedures are done only with the consent of the parents.

Justice2 ~

Quote:

if you have so many restrictions, maybe you should have your baby at home...that would solve all of your problems
I keep thinking that's what my midwife is going to say...but so far she seems to be going for all my "crazy ideas"!! :LOL My next appointment I'm going to bring up the fact that I want a water birth (which hasn't been done at this hospital yet). We'll see....

~Erin


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## pumpkinhead (Sep 15, 2003)

applejuice,

I totally agree with you. I am not under the mistaken belief that the Gov't has my best interest at heart. I also agree that, should a woman choose to birth in a hospital, how long she does or does not stay should entirely be up to her.

That said, I do support legislation that would keep insurance companies from discharging mama's early when they are emotionally not comfortable leaving, or are medically not ready to leave.

Re vaxing:

Quote:

RE: vaxing - All babies received the Hepititis Vaccine whether you want it or not.
In Canada, this is NOT so.

Re AIDS: Most woman are tested for this in pregnancy but you CAN refuse.

Re: Eye goop (usually gentimycin or erythromycin)for chlamydia and gonorrhea
This can also be refused. A waiver must be signed, but you HAVE the right to refuse it.

Re: Vit K
Can also be refused. In the hospital I birthed at, it was given orally rather than IV or IM.

The problem is, most are not enlightened or educated as to the detrimental effects of this stuff and so it doesn't even occur to them TO refuse it.


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## Potty Diva (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by applejuice_
*RE: testing - most laboring women are tested for AIDS whether they like it or not. Babies are tested for PKU, a hypoglycemic condition, and thyroid disease.

RE: vaxing - All babies received the Hepititis Vaccine whether you want it or not.

Babies are also given Vitamin K and eye prophylaxsis for gonorhea in the mother.

The camel's nose is already under the tent.*
Kaileys birth was here in NC in a hospital birthing center.

Testing- I was offered all of the mentioned testing but refused when offered.

Vaxxing- it was offered, I could have refused, but was not up on the anti-vax movement then. Will refuse if we have another child.

Vitamin K- I asked about this before Kailey was born and it was in my birth plan to refuse. My wishes were granted.


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## Modesto Doula (Dec 2, 2001)

Applejuice,
Im not sure what part of the country you are in, but federal law only mandates that you be offered the AIDS test and triple screen test (which you didnt mention, but they are often done at the same time), and that you be offered Vitamin K and eye prophylaxis for the baby. State laws control the newborn screening, includeing what tests are done as part of it. Newborn screening does not include blood glucose testing, at least not here in CA. That is a separate issue, and is normally done only for babies of mothers with gestational or chronic diabetes or babies born over 9 pounds (because this is often the result of undiagnosed GD).
The Hep B vax is a federal recommendation, not law, and most hospitals stopped routinely offering the Hep B vax in 2000 when manufacturers began pulling mercury out of vaccines. It is still strongly suggested that babies who have a family member or house mate with Hep B have the vax before leaving the hospital, but most hospitals do not offer it to low risk families. It is now done at the 2 mo visit with a ped.
All of these are essentially optional. The newborn screening is the hardest to refuse although I have heard of CPS being called because parents refused eye prophylaxis and Vit K.
Everything else just has to be documented by the care provider that you are informed and have refused, except for the triple screen, which you have to sign a refusal form for. The refusal is worded much like the refusal that you sign at the peds to refuse Vax for your children.


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## boobear (May 18, 2002)

I had my second at a hospital and, honestly, if I were to have a third I'd do a homebirth. Checked in at 1am - baby by 3am - checked out at 8pm that same day.

Hospitals & doctors seem to think that their procedures and meds are par for the course in having a baby.

I found out what the hospital required and then finessed my way around it. My midwife prevented their intervention (they give everyone Pitocin to help the uterus to go down). I found a pediatrician that was ok with delayed vax, signed waivers for the hosp. (tho I neglected to say I was delaying indefinitely and then just switched to my other ped post birth). The same pediatrician also did an in-room exam vs the mandatory daily 2 hour stay in the nursery (no thanks! everything goes on in there.. screaming babies - shots - circ's - baths - tests).

My ped gave the ok for the baby to go (otherwise I think they can keep the baby longer..?), nursing staff can not make that decision.

My mom works at a hosp and just went thru a big JCAHO review (http://www.jcaho.org/) and said if JCAHO saw how unfriendly this hospital's policy was toward patients they'd have problems.

So.. I think I'll write the hospital and tell them how unfriendly they are to parents with thier nursery rules (2 hours daily in the nursery - no parents allows). I could add that I thought JCAHO reviewed all policies and am wondering how that one got missed. That might be enough for them to re-think it (I have to look into it a little).

The hospital I was at was a baby factory (40 recovery rooms - all FULL!), and I can see the need to have a process for everyone to follow but not one that restricts the mother from the baby, ever.


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## Artisan (Aug 24, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by applejuice_
*RE: testing - most laboring women are tested for AIDS whether they like it or not. Babies are tested for PKU, a hypoglycemic condition, and thyroid disease.

RE: vaxing - All babies received the Hepititis Vaccine whether you want it or not.

Babies are also given Vitamin K and eye prophylaxsis for gonorhea in the mother.

The camel's nose is already under the tent.*
Well, birth interventions are a completely different kettle of fish, but since they've been brought up...

Never, ever heard of a laboring woman who had regular prenatal care getting an AIDS test. That's done as a prenatal screening, and it takes days to get the results back. It's also optional -- you can sign a waiver to have the test done.

Hep B IS routinely given a birth -- nearly everyone I know has had it, but I refused it. You CAN say no -- they cannot perform medical procedures against your wishes.

I'm sorry you've had such bad experiences with the government. The point the OP was making is that sometimes they do good things despite their seeming ineptitude in other ways. Some people DO need to stay longer than 24 hours, and their insurance companies should pay for that.


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## Artisan (Aug 24, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Modesto Doula_
*The Hep B vax is a federal recommendation, not law, and most hospitals stopped routinely offering the Hep B vax in 2000 when manufacturers began pulling mercury out of vaccines. It is still strongly suggested that babies who have a family member or house mate with Hep B have the vax before leaving the hospital, but most hospitals do not offer it to low risk families. It is now done at the 2 mo visit with a ped.
*
The first of the three shots is now given at birth, unfortunately. The second at the two month visit.


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## Modesto Doula (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:

The first of the three shots is now given at birth, unfortunately. The second at the two month visit.
That's the way they started the Hep B vax around here in early 99. Then there was a few articles of concern, and then the FDA requested that the vax manufacturers voluntarily remove mercury from vax's. At that time hospitals around the nation stopped offering the vax to low risk infants. I have heard that in some parts of the country they still offer it to all parents, but here, they only give it to high risk infants at birth, and the peds start the vax at 2 mo.


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## mamaroni (Sep 12, 2003)

I left the hospital w/in 12 hours of the births of both dc's. With dd, I did have an IV antibiotic drip (water had broken 18 hours prior) and at the same time had a cervadil (sp?) suppository. Ohter than that, the birth was totally natural, no epi. We did have the eye goop, but refused ALL other procedures (including PKU and hep and vit K). Ds was 100% natural, and we left less than 12 hours after he was born. I do for sure recall signing waivers about all the newborn procedures we refused (including circ, if you can belive that one!). The midwifes had NO trouble signing me out early, but I think we may have left AMA with regard to the babies. I just asked dh, and he can't recall either. But we had no problem with insurance coverage either time. I didn't even know that was a potential issue until I read this thread!

This time we are planning a home birth.

Oh, and with dd, we toured the hospital of our inital choice when I was about 5 mos preg, and ended up switching mw's and hospitals at that point. A friend of mine had a baby at that original hospital the same time I would have, and it was a completely medical, medicated, non-private, etc experience. I am so glad we switched. the experience w/dd was so positive, there was no question w/ ds.


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

To Modesto Doula:

I am in Los Angeles, California.

I have lived here fifty years.

I am the oldest of nine children, eight of whom were born at home; I am the mother of four children born at home, and I was a CCE for five years in the 1980's. I am now a school teacher.

The State of California also tests for spinal bifida early in pregnancy using the AFP test. The test results are sent to one lab in Sacramento. This test is optional also, but few women are told this.

Drug tests are also run on suspected drug abusers without consent.

You have few rights in a hospital. I use Dr. Mendelsohn's dictum about the hospital. You go there only if you are carried in. Once there, you treat the stay like a war and get out as quickly and safely as is possible.

My own sister had a repeat Caesarean Section for placenta previa and her doctor ordered that she stay five days because of the loss of blood. She got plenty of rest. She went home as soon as she could. However, she was rooming with a woman who had parties all night long and the nursing staff refused to throw the partiers out after visiting hours. Some of the male partiers were ogling my sister as she tried to discreetly nurse her new DD while confined to bed.

I registered a written complaint with the hospital administration, stating the time, ward, and offending nurses. My sister got part of her stay comped by the hospital with a written apology.

It should have never happened in the first place.


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## Parthenia (Dec 12, 2001)

We were in the hospital a total of 17 hours. We go there an hour before dd was born (midnight), stayed the night, and got ready to leave that noon. We would have left sooner, but we had to wait for the discharge nurse to come do her thing. She was a really cool nurse, very AP, honest, open. As much as I wanted to leave, I was glad we stuck around, because the hospital was air conditioned, and our car and apartment were not (and it was hot!), the nurse gave me a free tube of lanolin, and she showed me a variety of breastfeeding holds. I mentioned to her that I really wanted to go home and sleep in my own bed, and wanted to be home hours ago. She said that lots of mothers like to stay longer for a variety of reasons. Some like the extra help, the doting, the safety. Lots of us are anxious to return to our happy, safe, harmonious homes, where there's home cooked meals, and friendly hands waiting to help, but not everyone does, and the hospital staff can't always tell the difference.
It may not seem like it all the time, because the hospital staff may stall, or be pushy, but every patient, except in some psychiatric situations, has the *right to refuse treatment*. Vaccines, medications, procedures-all of it. When you're in labor you're focused on the task at hand, so refusing and fighting someone who intends for you to agree to the treatment is hard. I'm in my second year of nursing school, and they do teach us how to gently coax a patient to comply (although they don't call it compliance anymore in school, there are nurses who were trained to get a patient to comply). Sometimes reversing a refusal is a good thing, say if you have an immobile patient with a foley catherter who refuses to let you bathe him. And of course hospitals are not immune to employing control freaks who are not gentle in their method of getting compliance. So if you know you will want to leave soon after the birth, put it in your birthplan. If you do not want your newborn vaxed, Vitamin K'ed, given a pacifier or formula, taken out of your room, put it in writing, in your birthplan and have someone--a doula, a partner, a friend who is a nurse and knows the ropes-- be your bad cop/enforcer. The doctors and nurses are required to document everything. It can't hurt to do the same. Make your wishes known in writing before you get there.
Bottom line, you have the right to refuse treatment, and can leave when you wish. You might have to wait for the endless paperwork, and they'll want to offer you the regular protocol while you wait (so that they can document that it was offered and refused). Be your own advocate, or assign someone beforehand to be your advocate.
If dh and I ever agree to have more babies, we're staying home.


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## AKmoose (Jul 25, 2003)

I highly recommend having a big, long discussion with your husband regarding the freestanding birth center...encourage him to do some reading regarding safety etc. and have him meet with the midwives. It would be horribly sad if his insecurities keep you from having the birth experience you deserve. I think it's most important that you feel comfortable and secure, which means the two of you should find a happy medium too...good luck and I definitely vote on the birthcenter (#1 was born in one, #2 (due in 3 weeks) will be born at home)!


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## Artisan (Aug 24, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Modesto Doula_
*That's the way they started the Hep B vax around here in early 99. Then there was a few articles of concern, and then the FDA requested that the vax manufacturers voluntarily remove mercury from vax's. At that time hospitals around the nation stopped offering the vax to low risk infants. I have heard that in some parts of the country they still offer it to all parents, but here, they only give it to high risk infants at birth, and the peds start the vax at 2 mo.*
Here is what I found on the American Academy of Pediatrics website:
2003 Immunization Schedule

1. Hepatitis B vaccine (HepB). All infants should receive the first dose of hepatitis B vaccine soon after birth and before hospital discharge; the first dose may also be given by age 2 months if the infant's mother is HBsAg-negative.

Here's the link: http://www.cispimmunize.org/resear/rsh_main.html


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## Artisan (Aug 24, 2002)

I had my first appointment with my MW yesterday. She was totally sympathetic to my feelings about the hospital where I delivered. I asked about leaving early, and she said that, unfortunately, the hospital would consider me "Leaving against medical advice". She thought I might be able to get away with staying 24 hours, but that would be the minimum.

Thanks, everyone, for the input!


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## DesireeH (Mar 22, 2003)

I had an epidural and I asked to go home 12 hours after the birth and they said "sure, let me get the papers" (they were so overcrowded at the moment so I am sure thats why they were easy going about it). I was starving and they had not brought any food and I had had GD so my blood sugar had dropped to 40 from no food! I just wanted to get to eat was my main reason for wanting outta there! LOL Plus I wanted sleep.....I didnt sleep the whole night cause I refused to put the baby in the bassinet thingy and they didnt allow dh to stay the night because I had to share the room.


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## tessamami (Mar 11, 2002)

Originally posted by Modesto Doula
The Hep B vax is a federal recommendation, not law, and most hospitals stopped routinely offering the Hep B vax in 2000 when manufacturers began pulling mercury out of vaccines. It is still strongly suggested that babies who have a family member or house mate with Hep B have the vax before leaving the hospital, but most hospitals do not offer it to low risk families. It is now done at the 2 mo visit with a ped.

As of several years ago, though "most hospitals stopped offering the Hep B vax in 2000. . . ." hospital routines are slow to change and we could find lots that still do. Also, I have found in my own personal experience that hospitals don't "offer" procedures. . . .they perform them.


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