# What's the trick to motherhood?



## Nansense (Jan 5, 2009)

Seriously. I feel like big eyes are watching me to see if I can pass this test called motherhood. Am I'm failing. I want to have nice, well-behaved kids so I'm on them all day correcting them. Saying the same things, 20 times a day. No hitting, no this, no that.....I take away toys, give time outs, natural consequences and by the end of the day, I've taken away the very things they need to burn energy - bikes, various toys.

I question every decision I make - was it the right one, maybe I should have said 'that' instead. How do you get a toddler to correct behavior? Why do they say they understand and then within minutes go do it again??? Seriously, what is going on in their brains?

I've read most books, done most of all your ideas, purchased behavior programs - I'm doing all the ideas that you're thinking. I'm just sooooo worn out, out of ideas. Just perplexed.


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## CherryBomb (Feb 13, 2005)

IDK. If you figure it out, clue me in! I've been doing this for over 9 years now and still feel like a failure most of the time. Particularly in the realm of gentle discipline. I sincerely suck at it.


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## lookatreestar (Apr 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CherryBomb* 
IDK. *If you figure it out, clue me in!* I've been doing this for over 9 years now and still feel like a failure most of the time. Particularly in the realm of gentle discipline. I sincerely suck at it.

me too







maybe step back and relax a little? some days it seems like i am just yelling and no-ing everything. it is frustrating for both of us, so i create a space or go somewhere they can be "free" . it seems to help. for the most part my kids are pretty easy going and i still feel like i am not doing it "right" (bedtime, meals, etc)


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## Just1More (Jun 19, 2008)

I've found that when I'm struggling with my littles, there is usually an underlying theme. I can correct until I'm blue in the face, but they aren't listening or don't seem to care. If I really observe what they are doing that is such a problem, I can usually find ONE thing to address. Oftentimes, misbehavior is symptomatic of a bigger problem.

I am not exactly interested that they stop breaking their toys, yelling in the house, leaving their clothes everywhere, or what-have-you. Correcting all those little things frustrates everyone, and is little more than nagging. Your way, their way is really all it comes down to.

I AM interested that they learn respect, kindness, etc. So, instead of "getting after" them for things that kids do (and things that I do when I'm lazy, honestly), I focus much more on the character traits that I wish them to remember always. Don't touch the books on that shelf is only a rule for today. Respecting the property of others is a rule for all people, for example.

That cuts my words down dramatically. Instead of nagging them about putting their bikes away, I can say, "Are you respecting Daddy's hard work to buy that bike for you?" And I can then easily think of lessons to show the value of hard work, and to encourage them not to squander the gift of a bicycle.

Or, I can say, "Mrs. So and So is Mama's friend. Did you respect that relationship when you said x? Is that showing Mrs. So and So kindness?"

In the moment of conflict, I can simply say (in many situations), "You are not respecting me/other person/property/etc, and you will have to sit down where I can watch you." (Or whatever.) It's a big line in our house that "people who can't be trusted must be watched.

This is getting pretty wordy, but I also don't say things more than once. Sometimes I will say them in different ways, especially for my 5yo who is prone to misunderstand, but I say something ONE time, and then hold them accountable. No amount of pleading or apology mitigates the conseqence. And for my 5yo, we remind her frequently that if she is not sure she understands, it is HER responsibility to say so and get clarification. If she does not, then she is accountable.

That sounds ogre-like, but it really isn't. We encourage questions and discussion, we just hold everyone (even the grown-ups) to a certain standard.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

The secrets we've learned so far:

- Have high expectations and let kids know

- Be firm

- Correct consistantly

- Model the behavior you want to see

- Be gentle, but not permissive

At the risk of bragging (ok, I am bragging), we have four really well-behaved children and get complimented when we take them out places.


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## sewchris2642 (Feb 28, 2009)

Go outside. Seriously, going to the park, going for a walk cuts down the yelling and uncooperative behavior. Especially on your part. It's as much a break for mom as it is for the kids. It's amazing what a little physical exercise and fresh air can do. Be consistent. Have a routine to the day so they can anticipate what will come next. Build in pick up times so things are so overwhelming at the end of the day. And stop looking over your shoulder. It doesn't matter what other parents think or do. They aren't you. They don't have your kids and don't know your kids or have your life. You do. Mommy guilt does no one any good.


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

These are easier said than done, but here's my list:

(1) Realistic expectations are everything. Children pretty much "act their age" 100% of the time. Disclaimer: There is a fine line between expecting and labeling.

(2) When you are done being patient, find 5 more minutes of patience.

(3) Children's personalities, levels of impulse control, and temperament generally have not been caused by you or your parenting. (My motto: I take no credit and I take no blame.)

(4) Focus on problem solving, not blame.

(5) At the end of the day, you and your children will not remember your children's behavior, but you will all be dramatically influenced by your response. If you've modeled patience, kindness, and understanding, it was the right choice.

(6) The only person you can change is you.


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## Nansense (Jan 5, 2009)

Thanks for your replies!

CherryBomb - "I've been doing this for over 9 years now and still feel like a failure most of the time."

uh-oh. I'm in for it!









Just1More - "I AM interested that they learn respect, kindness, etc. So, instead of "getting after" them for things that kids do (and things that I do when I'm lazy, honestly), I focus much more on the character traits that I wish them to remember always. Don't touch the books on that shelf is only a rule for today. Respecting the property of others is a rule for all people, for example."

I touch on respect once in a while, so this is a great reminder to do it more - and make it THE focus of my corrections rather than the immediate action.

Phathui5 - "The secrets we've learned so far:

- Have high expectations and let kids know

- Be firm

- Correct consistantly"

I feel like we have high expectations and thus the constant correcting. So how can you have high expectations and NOT be a nag?

A few of you mentioned going outside - we do a walk, bike ride almost every day. It is more of a headache than a pleasure. "Stay on the edge" "Stay near me" "Don't get too far ahead" etc.... I'm constantly shouting out directions and it's not relaxing. Yesterday, I took bike rides away for a week because they got so far ahead I couldn't see them. So we did a walk today and it was all complaining - it was all I could do to not turn around because they need it.


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## Nansense (Jan 5, 2009)

Mizelenius -

Quote:

(3) Children's personalities, levels of impulse control, and temperament generally have not been caused by you or your parenting. (My motto: I take no credit and I take no blame.)

(4) Focus on problem solving, not blame.

(5) At the end of the day, you and your children will not remember your children's behavior, but you will all be dramatically influenced by your response. If you've modeled patience, kindness, and understanding, it was the right choice.
#3 - I can only hope, sometimes I think my less than stellar parenting has caused some of his reactions.

#4 - yes, on good days!

#5 - failure. But a great thing to remember.


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## lookatreestar (Apr 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nansense* 
Thanks for your replies!

CherryBomb - "I've been doing this for over 9 years now and still feel like a failure most of the time."

uh-oh. I'm in for it!









Just1More - "I AM interested that they learn respect, kindness, etc. So, instead of "getting after" them for things that kids do (and things that I do when I'm lazy, honestly), I focus much more on the character traits that I wish them to remember always. Don't touch the books on that shelf is only a rule for today. Respecting the property of others is a rule for all people, for example."

I touch on respect once in a while, so this is a great reminder to do it more - and make it THE focus of my corrections rather than the immediate action.

Phathui5 - "The secrets we've learned so far:

- Have high expectations and let kids know

- Be firm

- Correct consistantly"

I feel like we have high expectations and thus the constant correcting. So how can you have high expectations and NOT be a nag?

A few of you mentioned going outside - we do a walk, bike ride almost every day. It is more of a headache than a pleasure. "Stay on the edge" "Stay near me" "Don't get too far ahead" etc.... I'm constantly shouting out directions and it's not relaxing. Yesterday, I took bike rides away for a week because they got so far ahead I couldn't see them. So we did a walk today and it was all complaining - it was all I could do to not turn around because they need it.


i would find somewhere else to ride honestly. somewhere where they are safe and you don't have to keep on them. because yeah, that isn't fun for anyone! we don't go for many walks unless i know my toddler can run free or he will stay in the stroller, because telling a toddler where to walk, don't go in the street. yeah i am saying it every 2 seconds and it kinda puts a damper on things.

and i agree with age appropriate expectations.


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## lookatreestar (Apr 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mizelenius* 
These are easier said than done, but here's my list:

(1) Realistic expectations are everything. Children pretty much "act their age" 100% of the time. Disclaimer: There is a fine line between expecting and labeling.

(2) When you are done being patient, find 5 more minutes of patience.

(3) Children's personalities, levels of impulse control, and temperament generally have not been caused by you or your parenting. (My motto: I take no credit and I take no blame.)

(4) Focus on problem solving, not blame.

(5) At the end of the day, you and your children will not remember your children's behavior, but you will all be dramatically influenced by your response. If you've modeled patience, kindness, and understanding, it was the right choice.

(6) The only person you can change is you.


these are all great !


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

It does sound like you need a better place to ride, but if you want to ride/walk in that area, it might be a good idea to have practice runs where you explain your expectation before you take them out and let them know you need them to practice riding/walking safely.

Quote:

I feel like we have high expectations and thus the constant correcting. So how can you have high expectations and NOT be a nag?
I guess that depends what you consider nagging. I won't repeat myself about the same thing over and over again. What I will do if a child isn't obeying a direction is first make sure they understand what I'm asking of them, and then put them in time out if it happens again.

Another thing with high expectations (for us) is that in asking a lot of them, not only have we gotten a lot from them in the way of polite behavior, but the times that they do slip up, it's little things like starting to be too loud at the dinner table, not whining or throwing a fit out in public.


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## Tway (Jul 1, 2010)

I was just about paralyzed with fear over doing the "right" thing with DD from the day she was born. I was constantly afraid that I wasn't holding her enough, holding her too much, not paying enough attention to her, you name it. I was physically exhausted from lack of sleep, and mentally exhausted from all this doubt. I'm better today, but still not great.

Worse, I find myself losing patience when things are at their worst--usually when DD is fussy and fidgeting and keeping me awake at some ungodly hour of the night. I react with such impatience, and in the morning light I regret it and vow to do better the next time. But next time rolls around, and after hours of the same, I'm reacting out of impatience again.

I wish I knew the trick to motherhood. But I'd guess it has to do with learning to trust ourselves, to let go, to relax, to remember this too shall pass, to remind ourselves we'll miss this day someday, to smile more, to put ourselves in our kids' shoes.

But it's so hard sometimes, isn't it? So hard yet so important.


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## mom2grrls (Jul 24, 2008)

I question every decision I make - was it the right one, maybe I should have said 'that' instead. How do you get a toddler to correct behavior? Why do they say they understand and then within minutes go do it again??? Seriously, what is going on in their brains?>>>>>

What sort of behavior are you wanting a toddler to correct? Toddlers do the same things over and over b/c they lack control over their impulses, that just takes time


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mizelenius* 

(5) At the end of the day, you and your children will not remember your children's behavior, but you will all be dramatically influenced by your response. If you've modeled patience, kindness, and understanding, it was the right choice.

(6) The only person you can change is you.

You said failure re: #5 but I want you to try to look at it a different way. Think about this. One of your statements is that you want "nice, well-behaved kids." First of all, I bet your kids _are_ nice. "Well-behaved"-- again, this goes back to "Are they acting their age?" Because let me tell you, it's pretty hard for them to act any other age (except maybe younger!).

If you can *FREE YOURSELF* from the expectation of anything other than acting their age, then you are . . .free. Not only do people get frustrated (naturally) when children do something to make life difficult, but I think there is also a sense of panic. The frustration is real, but the panic is made-up. There's this assumption that if we don't "fix" the kid up NOW, then watch out later on . . .but this is false. I bet your toddler stumbles over words. May not know how to read yet. Are you worried that your toddler will never read? Never know how to speak proficiently? Do you see where I am going with this?

So, the next time someone does something to frustrate you, focus on finding an outlet for _your_ feelings of frustration. Maybe it means you redirect somehow, make a joke, turn on the TV, get a glass of water, threaten him by saying if he doesn't stop doing __ then he is going to turn into a big, green, bumpy pickle, call a friend, or just sit on the couch and "be." Allow yourself the freedom to not fix him.

Oh, and one more thought. You said you say no a lot. Rephrase. When my girls were hitting each other yesterday, I had them each tell me things that we could do with our hands. They stopped hitting and that was that. Always, always focus on what they should be doing.

Also, re: toddler behavior. I will tell you that the most important tool here is prevention.

One final thought. A child who does not ask "why" questions cannot fully understand consequences. One more reason not to use time-outs with a toddler. Time-outs don't solve problems anyway. If they did, no one would have to use them more than a few times. Doesn't look like they work for all the people in jail . . .


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## sewchris2642 (Feb 28, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nansense* 
Thanks for your replies!

A few of you mentioned going outside - we do a walk, bike ride almost every day. It is more of a headache than a pleasure. "Stay on the edge" "Stay near me" "Don't get too far ahead" etc.... I'm constantly shouting out directions and it's not relaxing. Yesterday, I took bike rides away for a week because they got so far ahead I couldn't see them. So we did a walk today and it was all complaining - it was all I could do to not turn around because they need it.

How old are your children and how many do you have? Yes, it can be a major pain to get everyone ready to go. Especially if they are under 5. And sometimes that doesn't end even if they are 12 and he's the only one. But in the long run it is worth every minute of it. Where you walk/go is also important. Even if you have to drive, find a place where you aren't constantly directing. Let them explore and just run. They like to walk on the curb? Find a street (or park) where they can do that. They just want to run? Find a park or open field where they can do that. They want to climb? Find a park where they can climb. And this is where being consistent is important. The more it's done, the less you have to direct, the more they internalize the rules.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I don't think there's a trick. It's an issue of trying to get through each moment at a time.

What has helped me is to relax a bit, and specifically to not view every undesirable behavior as "disrespect" and "disobedience." Often, kids are just being kids and don't have any particular motivation like that. And I find it's much easier to respond calmly if I think "Dd is not behaving how I'd like her to" instead of "Dd is being disrepectful." Not taking things personally is not easy and is something I had to learn. When dd #1 was a baby, I took her colic personally, like it was something she was doing to me to make me upset, or that she didn't care how I felt. Looking back, that was ridiculous, but I think it's also not helpful to think of a 2-year-old as being "disobedient". They're 2, you know? They're in "I see I want I get" mode. There's no "is this OK? Can I do this?" going on in them yet.

Oh, and when I look at a behavior, I try to think of how I want my kids to behave when they're adults, not right now as kids. So I could get upset when my dd stands up to me and consider it to be disrespectful, but on the other hand I want my dd to grow to become a woman who stands up for herself, so I try to balance my desire for her to do what I tell her to do with my desire that she grow up to be a self-assured woman who won't put up with garbage from people.

And when I say "relax", I don't just mean about what the kids do. I try to relax about what I do as well. Some things aren't that big a deal in the long haul.


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## bonamarq (Oct 18, 2006)

My tricks in no particular order:

1) Understanding what is normal for the age and what MY child is capable of

2) Meeting my own needs/filling my own cup - I may get flamed here - but sometimes we need to realize that not all of us are cut out to be full time stay at home moms, as much as our vision of motherhood was grounded in that ideal - I'm a much BETTER mom b/c I'm NOT with dd all.the.time. In fact, we have precious few hours during the week so we really treasure our time together and I LOVE sleeping with her (she's 6 yo BTW)

3) Letting go of others judgements/perceptions of how I parent/who my dd is (this can be a really tough one)

4) I'm convinced that parenting today is MUCH harder then for our moms - for a multitude of reasons - higher expectations of ourselves, our kids, fewer supports/less family near by - I know that I am doing the best I can and try as I might to NOT COMPARE - I do anyway, and I'm doing pretty well....

5) Lastly - accept that fact that we all screw up our kids, it's inevitable and just a matter of degree - just have them send you the therapy bill and all wil be forgiven (LOL - not serious here, but it's a fact of life that it's always easy to blame the parent - so go back to #3)


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## catinthehat (Feb 10, 2010)

Great thread,

"(5) At the end of the day, you and your children will not remember your children's behavior, but you will all be dramatically influenced by your response. If you've modeled patience, kindness, and understanding, it was the right choice."

I love this. Something to meditate on.

Some tricks I try to do, not always successfully- some of these have already been mentioned.
1. Don't compare your kids behavior to other peoples kids behavior.
2. Find a friend who can actually openly talk about how awful their kids are being so you don't feel like your kids are the only ones who misbehave.
3. Just don't beat yourself. Whenever I start that, I can be sure the next ones I will start being mean to are my kids or husband.


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## Magella (Apr 5, 2004)

A very wise person here once told me that all you can do is love and mother and hang in there-and don't kill them.







She also promised me that it's okay to trust that my kids will be okay-now, in a week, in twenty years. They're resilient, and that's good because not one of us is a perfect mother. This person also pointed out to me that it's good for our kids to see that we aren't perfect, because they aren't going to be perfect either-we get to show them that imperfection is okay, we can cope with that and learn from mistakes.

She told me these things years ago. And now that I'm out of that "very little kid" stage, I have to say I think she's right. I think that's the trick, the secret. You do the best you can, you love them, you mother them. You hang in there. You remind yourself to relax and enjoy them as much as you can. You get through the hard times-they really do pass! It does get easier (then harder again, then easier...but overall I think it gradually becomes easier despite bumps in the road). You won't be perfect, neither will they. And that's okay. You'll get through, you'll be okay.

And fwiw, I do think that it helps to slow down, step away from the parenting books**(see below), and just try to be in the moment with your kids (even in all it's messy, ear-splitting, frustrating, horrid glory). Take a break from the voices that tell you what your kids should be doing and what you should be doing and that you're failing. Take time to nurture yourself so that you can be calmer when you interact with your kids, so that you have more energy to be compassionate and effective as a mother. You can't give when you're depleted.

(**to clarify, I love parenting books and have learned a lot from some of them. I value learning and building on my skills as a parent, both from experience and from advice others have to give. But I found that at some point I needed to take a break from books and advice in order to listen to my children and myself.)


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## NellieKatz (Jun 19, 2009)

When I read your original post, the FIRST thing that jumped out at me was your goal of "well behaved kids." When that is the starting point, LOL, it's all downhill from there! Seriously, been there, done that. "Well behaved" is a result that comes from other stuff being done and other stuff being the priority. When good behavior is the stated goal, then the only next step is coercion...like I said, downhill. 

So I'd start with an answer to your original question as follows: The trick to motherhood is being able to see the world from your child's perspective. Developmentally appropriate, loving, compassionate, listening & understanding. There is a lot that LOOKS like "bad behavior" and it embarrasses the socks off of us (believe me, I KNOW it!) but none of that external stuff will change unless the child's developmentally appropriate (<==emphasize that) NEEDS are met. Note how I didn't say their "stated wants" are met. I said their needs. Often, little kids cannot communicate their needs so it's up to us to decode their actions and their words until they are good at it. Like, they will scream for a toy in the store and we label them "bad" and we are mortified and we come down real hard on them, and the next thing we know the connection between us & our kids is in tatters. Sometimes they scream for one thing or they act out in some way, and they are really trying to get a totally different need met. That's when we have to be real smart and not focus on the behavior itself, but what the child might be trying to tell us in their haven't-been-on-earth-very-long kind of way.

Hope that helps!


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## NellieKatz (Jun 19, 2009)

To elaborate on that last point, I have a friend who has 4 kids and they are the sweetest, most gentle, caring, well behaving kids....so I watch her VERY carefully to see what it is she does with them (I came from an authoritarian family so I have to watch other, peaceful families very closely to see how it's done.) And she is as gentle and caring with them as could possibly be. She doesn't bark orders; she is kind and considerate, and makes requests, not demands; she is very attentive (they are eclectic homeschoolers so the kids have the freedom to be engaged in activities that are appropriate for them as individuals and for their age & interest level....that helps a LOT with peaceful kids....not being squashed like a square peg in a round hole all day which is how it can probably feel to some kids in a school setting....but I digress)

So yeah, find moms whose kids are real sweet & who perhaps you want to emulate, and watch those moms. I couldn't do it without the good moms that are all around me, serving as role models. The moms who rule with an iron fist, however....those ones might just have "well behaved" kids because the kids are afraid. That is how it was in my house growing up. I'd rather do it another way, you know?


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## kcparker (Apr 6, 2008)

My first thought in response to your title was "one foot in front of the other, and remember to keep breathing."

My disclaimer: I think I have pretty easy kids.
But here's what works best for us:
1. even with the 3 year old, distraction and redirection are still great - I think skillful parents are like aikido practitioners - you just move the energy where you want it to go.
2. games - Set up a situation where you are in control, and they are having fun and are focused. Play Red Light-Green Light or Mother May I? when they are out on bikes, bring semaphore flags or pretend to be the drag-racing lady with the scarves. I play really stupid games like "Assembly Line Guy" and just make lots of sound effects when we have to pick up blocks, or I tell DS that I bet _I_ can pick them up faster than he can. The Giant Robot (he stands on my feet and I walk) is good for getting him into the bathroom to brush teeth. Anything to make him more engaged and giggly is generally a winner.
3. Set aside your own preconceptions about what 'should' be going on when it's not a matter of health/safety. I let my 3 year old help with cooking a lot. I have to consciously say to myself, "There WILL be flour on the floor and counter when we are done, and the cookies WILL be misshapen lumps, and it's okay."
4. Let them be the age they are, guide them in matters of respect for other people. Model the behavior you would like to see in them. If you yell, apologize or say, "Do-over! I need to say that over in a nicer way."
5. My sister will tell my son, "Think twice!" if he's about to throw something or hit the baby. Sometimes it works. I think short reminder words are good - "Respect" or "Kindness!" can stand in for "You need to take better care of blah blah blah blah..."
6. Cut yourself some slack. Kids are resilient, and this is a lot of work, this parenting gig. Remember, what you do now will pay off in the form of a civilized, polite, compassionate ADULT - this is a 20+ year process we are engaging in as parents.

For the bike rides, here are my thoughts - ask them to demonstrate responsibility, then give them a loose rein if they come through. If you give them the trust that they will be responsible, and compliment them often when they are acting the way you want, they may pleasantly surprise you. Maybe this means you tell the kids, "I am concerned about safety by the road. Therefore, we are going to the park to ride bikes. I expect you to walk them until we are in the park and away from traffic, and then you can go crazy, but I need for you to stay in visual contact with me. Give me a check-in wave, I'll show a green scarf if you're okay, or a red one if you're getting too far ahead." Or, can you give them walkie-talkies for the bike rides? If they start getting too far ahead, you can recall them to base camp on the walkie-talkie without resorting to yelling, and it will be more fun than screaming at them (for you and for them).


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## nd_deadhead (Sep 22, 2005)

My twin boys just turned 16. They are polite, respectful, and empathetic. As someone else said, I don't take credit - we were blessed with wonderful kids! - but I do think DH and I shaped our relalationship with the boys, which shaped who they are.

This is what has worked for us:

- Treat them the way you want to be treated. Plain old Golden Rule. Sounds easy, but it really takes practice to get out of the mindset of "I'm the Mom, I need to tell them what to do!"

- One aspect of this for us was having the same rules for kids and grownups. If they aren't allowed to eat popsicles ont he couch, neither are we. If they must sit at the table until everyone is finished eating, so do I (no matter how big a pile of laundry I have to do).

- Be consistent. This is Number One. If the rules change from one day to the next, kids have no idea how to act, and they'll try anything.

- Realistic expectations - this is been mentioned a lot for a very good reason! Kids can only do what they are physically and emotionally capable of doing this week.

- Catch them being good. Notice when they're acting appropriately - especially if it's a situation that's been a struggle in the past. It's far easier to teach children what TO do than what NOT to do - make sure they know when they're doing something right (like staying in sight on the bike path).

- Remember that they WILL outgrow a lot of stuff you're experiencing now! Hang in there!


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## mom2lucy (Jul 22, 2008)

this is a wonderful thread. thank you to everone contributing!


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## Wild Lupine (Jul 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mizelenius* 
These are easier said than done, but here's my list:

(1) Realistic expectations are everything. Children pretty much "act their age" 100% of the time. Disclaimer: There is a fine line between expecting and labeling.

(2) When you are done being patient, find 5 more minutes of patience.

(3) Children's personalities, levels of impulse control, and temperament generally have not been caused by you or your parenting. (My motto: I take no credit and I take no blame.)

(4) Focus on problem solving, not blame.

(5) At the end of the day, you and your children will not remember your children's behavior, but you will all be dramatically influenced by your response. If you've modeled patience, kindness, and understanding, it was the right choice.

(6) The only person you can change is you.

I love this! I may hang in on my fridge. I especially need to remember #2.

Awesome thread!


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## transylvania_mom (Oct 8, 2006)

I try to step back and enjoy the ride.








I try to remember kids are people and they make mistakes too, and it's ok to make mistakes, to fail, to be afraid, angry, etc. as long as they learn from it. I wouldn't be happy if someone else set an high standard for me and expected me to be perfect.

I like Barbara Coloroso's book, "Kids are worth it" where she says: When kids blow it, and they will, they are given a second opportunity to try again, after they have been given the opportunity to experience the consequences of blowing it the first time.


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## avent (Mar 13, 2006)

I agree with a lot of what's been said, but I'll offer 3 more items that make the difference in our house between kids who are pretty well behaved and ones we want to drop off at the police station.









1) Nutrition. The better I feed my kids, the more nourished they are, the better they behave. They get small amounts of sugar (fruit only) and I can tell the difference when they don't eat as well as they could or when they get hungry and cranky. Lots of good fats, too, to ward off blood sugar highs and lows.

2) TV. I can tell the difference in terms of attitude and defiance in my kids when they've watched too much TV. This is regardless of programming, I think it's actually the box and the sitting.

3) How much attention I give them, especially in the morning. If I'm really distracted and don't give them some time when they are my sole focus it's harder to get them to listen. I try to fill their tanks in the morning if I can.

On a day when they get lots of focused attention in the morning, good snacks with no sugar, and no TV is way better than the opposite. A vast difference in how they listen to me, do what I ask them to do, and in attitude as well.

And all without "discipline"!


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## sewchris2642 (Feb 28, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *avent* 

And all without "discipline"!









I want to address your last sentence. The word discipline comes from the word disciple and is not equal to punishment. I want my children to be my disciples to learn from my example and to follow in my footsteps. Punishment can be part of discipline but is not the first nor the only option available. Discipline can include, but is not limited to, hyperbole, humor, redirection, time-outs (or time-ins; removal from situation), hugs, talking it out, leading by example, agreed upon rules, education, rewards, consequences. Discipline is certainly not "do what I say, not what I do". In order to correct my childrens behavior, I must first look to my own. I must first model correct/"good" behavior to and in front of my children before I can expect them to exhibit it.


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## crpsmnwife (Aug 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mizelenius* 
At the end of the day, you and your children will not remember your children's behavior, but you will all be dramatically influenced by your response. If you've modeled patience, kindness, and understanding, it was the right choice.

Yes, that! I wish I could have read that about 14 times -- okay, 100 times! -- yesterday. Yes, they were ridiculous, but I wasn't the mom I could have been either :-(


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## MrsH (Sep 5, 2009)

I also don't know "the" secret, and I guess I've stopped trying. Instead I try to figure out what I want to be like in my interactions with them, what I want them to learn from me. And then we figure out how to set up their days to make that most likely to happen. And I'm trying to get a handle on how my own issues cause most of my angry and yelling moments with the kids. _She's Gonna Blow!_ has been a helpful read for me around that.

Quote:

(**to clarify, I love parenting books and have learned a lot from some of them. I value learning and building on my skills as a parent, both from experience and from advice others have to give. But I found that at some point *I needed to take a break from books and advice in order to listen to my children and myself*.)
I totally agree with this! For the past two years, I've declared November my "no-parenting books month." It's been great! I do really love parenting books but taking a break from them has really helped cut down my inner critic and helped me to be more fully attuned to my kids.


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## noobmom (Jan 19, 2008)

I'm far, far from perfect, but what I've noticed on my good days:

1) I give my kids enough of the type of attention they want (one-on-one talking, playing, etc. Not telling them what to do). Someone else mentioned this as well.

2) Remember that they aren't trying to piss you off. Intent counts for something, so cut them a little slack.

3) Don't lie to them to get them to do what you want.

4) When you're arguing over something, give them an "out" that allows them to save face. A symbolic compromise can make a huge difference.

5) Don't read parenting books!

6) Patience, patience, and more patience...


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

I love the "take no credit; accept no blame" idea!

Here are my two tips I can share:

1. Be real with your kids. I love the idea of the bike ride description and you just kind of "freaking out" saying something like, "Ahh...stop! I can't deal with this right now. I feel like this is totally unsafe and that no one's listening to me and it's just not fun for me at all. We need to go home." In time (at least for my DC) she learned that everyone has more fun when everyone is enjoying themselves. This is *the* keystone of my parenting philosophy.

2. Yes days. When DC was younger we would have 'yes' days. When I felt like we had gone a stretch kind of bickering and I felt like I was always saying no to everything, I would have a day where I tried to say yes to as many things as possible. It always seemed to clear the slate.

ETA: one more thing that has already been mentioned: If you can get yourself to rephrase "no" answers into "what they can do" answers that can really help. With a bit of practice this will start to come really naturally. Actually, this helps throughout life, IMO. Even adults and certainly school friends, neighbor kids and etc. prefer to hear what they *can* do rather than a no.

Re: the high expectations. I think this is a really good concept but it's really difficult to grasp. I've been able to see glimpses of this throughout DC's life but it's hard to put into words and even harder to distinguish. It's not so much that you have high expectations but that internally you truly believe your children to behave in a particular way. It's a distinction that I think kids are aware of on some level.


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## sewchris2642 (Feb 28, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MrsH* 

I totally agree with this! For the past two years, I've declared November my "no-parenting books month." It's been great! I do really love parenting books but taking a break from them has really helped cut down my inner critic and helped me to be more fully attuned to my kids.

I've always preferred child development books that told be about the stages of childhood. What to expect when sort of books. Your (age of child) Year Old books were the most helpful in determining what was normal behavior for that age. Once I knew what was normal, then I could tailor my response appropriately. The only parenting books I've read were Dr. Dobson's The Strong-Willed Child (back when Erica was 2-3; the first and only book at that time that came close to Erica's personality), and a copy of Ezzo (forget the title, it was the infant one) when Dylan was a baby. I got that one from the library to see what he was all about after reading about him on a debate board. Didn't finish the book--he was so wrong and had no clue about raising children. I knew more about raising children than he did and I had only raised 3 to that point. Neither one was all that helpful in dealing with Erica or Dylan. I've read some of Dr. Sears when my grandson was born. If the more recent books on high needs children had been around back in the 80s, I might have had read them. But they weren't.


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

Dobson and Ezzo...no wonder you didn't like parenting books.









Re: books. I think it's a matter of finding a few that sit will with you and certainly a bit of perspective that they're not a magic cure.

A couple of my favorites were Becoming the Parent You Want to Be and Unconditional Parenting. I also really like Taking Children Seriously but I took an actual class in that book and don't think I would have gotten much from the book alone.

In TCC the absolute GEM of advice I got was that silence can solve 90% or your communication problems with your kids. The essential idea is that a parent's quick, impulsive response to what a child says can actually really hinder their forthcomingness. Often if you just remain silent or just say a little to encourage the rest of the idea you get a breakthrough.


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## sewchris2642 (Feb 28, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IdentityCrisisMama* 
Dobson and Ezzo...no wonder you didn't like parenting books.









Re: books. I think it's a matter of finding a few that sit will with you and certainly a bit of perspective that they're not a magic cure.

A couple of my favorites were Becoming the Parent You Want to Be and Unconditional Parenting. I also really like Taking Children Seriously but I took an actual class in that book and don't think I would have gotten much from the book alone.

In TCC the absolute GEM of advice I got was that silence can solve 90% or your communication problems with your kids. The essential idea is that a parent's quick, impulsive response to what a child says can actually really hinder their forthcomingness. Often if you just remain silent or just say a little to encourage the rest of the idea you get a breakthrough.

It wasn't until recently that I found out how little I really took away from reading The Strong-Willed Child. I reread it after my first grandson was born, only to realize that I had not put into practice anything from the book. The only thing I got from that book was the sheer relief that there were other children similar to Erica and that she wasn't the only one. That one idea was a life saver for me. There was one other thing I got from that book--that spanking didn't work on strong-willed children--only to find out that that idea isn't even in the book. I didn't even know about Ezzo until Dylan was almost 2.

One the most effective discipline idea I developed came from history, not a child development book. Teddy Roosevelt's "Speak softly and carry a big stick" works as equally well with children as it does nations.


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## avent (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sewchris2642* 
Discipline can include, but is not limited to, hyperbole, humor, redirection, time-outs (or time-ins; removal from situation), hugs, talking it out, leading by example, agreed upon rules, education, rewards, consequences.

There's a reason I had "discipline" in quotes.









I understand what you're saying, but I'm not sure my 3 ideas (very little TV, good nutrition, filling up their tanks in the morning) fall under your definition (hyperbole, humor, redirection, etc) either. I guess they are a bit under "leading by example" because I eat the same food they do, but that's about it.

These 3 things are things I would do anyway as part of my family culture, so I don't think of them as part of the disciplinary process, just how we live by our values. But I have noticed that it's harder to maintain discipline if I start slacking in these areas by skipping snacks, letting them watch TV while I make some phone calls, etc. So basically I was talking about how non-disciplinary measures (lifestyle choices) affect how the kids behave and how much other discipline (such as your examples) I use.

Hope that clarifies what I was trying to say.


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## sewchris2642 (Feb 28, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *avent* 
There's a reason I had "discipline" in quotes.









I understand what you're saying, but I'm not sure my 3 ideas (very little TV, good nutrition, filling up their tanks in the morning) fall under your definition (hyperbole, humor, redirection, etc) either. I guess they are a bit under "leading by example" because I eat the same food they do, but that's about it.

These 3 things are things I would do anyway as part of my family culture, so I don't think of them as part of the disciplinary process, just how we live by our values. But I have noticed that it's harder to maintain discipline if I start slacking in these areas by skipping snacks, letting them watch TV while I make some phone calls, etc. So basically I was talking about how non-disciplinary measures (lifestyle choices) affect how the kids behave and how much other discipline (such as your examples) I use.

Hope that clarifies what I was trying to say.

It does. The idea that discipline only = punishment is just a sore point with me. And your post just was the current straw and you got the fall out. I get what you are saying and to me it does fall within discipline because I view discipline as the way I and my family live. Just like diet really describes what and how one eats but has come to mean denial of certain foods in order to lose weight, discipline has come to mean just one thing.


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## avent (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sewchris2642* 
It does. The idea that discipline only = punishment is just a sore point with me. And your post just was the current straw and you got the fall out. I get what you are saying and to me it does fall within discipline because I view discipline as the way I and my family live. Just like diet really describes what and how one eats but has come to mean denial of certain foods in order to lose weight, discipline has come to mean just one thing.

I'm not sure where I said discipline=punishment???? I don't punish my kids so I think you're reading something that's not there.

I see those 3 items (TV, nutrition/blood sugar mgmt, giving the kiddos more attention) as something much bigger than discipline, I see them as the basis of actual biological development and would do them even if they made our day-to-day family life more difficult. (Luckily they make it easier!) And when I said "without discipline" I meant "external to", not "lack of".

So--A top layer of these 3 items which are based for me in biology, and underneath a long list very similar to the list you mentioned, with a few other items you didn't, none of which are punishment.

I could have easily written your post but I wrote mine instead. To me the two are not mutually exclusive at all. We just think of it differently.


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## lilith1 (Dec 5, 2008)

What a great thread... I read it all...


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

What a fantastic thread, I'm going to read this again when I'm less exhausted. Heck, I might even contribute. Thanks so much everyone, for sharing!


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## sewchris2642 (Feb 28, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *avent* 
I'm not sure where I said discipline=punishment???? I don't punish my kids so I think you're reading something that's not there.

I see those 3 items (TV, nutrition/blood sugar mgmt, giving the kiddos more attention) as something much bigger than discipline, I see them as the basis of actual biological development and would do them even if they made our day-to-day family life more difficult. (Luckily they make it easier!) And when I said "without discipline" I meant "external to", not "lack of".

So--A top layer of these 3 items which are based for me in biology, and underneath a long list very similar to the list you mentioned, with a few other items you didn't, none of which are punishment.

I could have easily written your post but I wrote mine instead. To me the two are not mutually exclusive at all. We just think of it differently.

I agree. I didn't mean to imply that I thought that you did punish. I apologize for any implication of that.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

The only thing I can think of to add is this one: pick your battles. Granted, my LO is only 10 months old so our days of GD are just beginning, but I think it is necessary to do this so I am not exhausted before he even hits his 1st birthday.

For example: biting while nursing is a no-compromise thing. I can't have him do that. tearing up old newspapers and making a huge mess . . . . yeah I don't like it, but hey, it is just a mess. it can be cleaned up.

I haven't read any parenting books . . .I don't know if I want to after reading this thread! LOL

I second finding mother(s) or parent(s) whose children and behaviours you would like to emulate or duplicate. That is a big one for us. More so even than any book, seeing this in action is what really helps, I think.


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## ~Denise~ (Dec 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nansense* 
I feel like we have high expectations and thus the constant correcting. So how can you have high expectations and NOT be a nag?

A few of you mentioned going outside - we do a walk, bike ride almost every day. It is more of a headache than a pleasure. "Stay on the edge" "Stay near me" "Don't get too far ahead" etc.... I'm constantly shouting out directions and it's not relaxing. Yesterday, I took bike rides away for a week because they got so far ahead I couldn't see them. So we did a walk today and it was all complaining - it was all I could do to not turn around because they need it.

I know this thread is getting looooong, but this caught my eye and I didn't see it addressed elsewhere.

We live in the city, and so riding bikes/trikes safety is REALLY important. If DS (age 3.5 now) keeps riding into the intersection, he could get killed, but it's fun to ride your trike to the park, and it's good exercise. So I pick my battle: Safety. Not perfection. Safety. And do as much in advance as possible so the expectations are high.

So, before we go out the door, helmet is on or we don't leave. Then we have a talk. "When Mommy says Red Light, you stop. When Mommy says Green Light, you can go." (And at this age we've added in yellow light.) Before we go out the door, he has to tell me what Red Light and Green Light mean. I ask him if, when mommy says Red Light, if that means stop RIGHT AWAY, or keep going a little bit and then stop. He's gotta get that answer right before we go out the door. And then one more question: "What happens if mommy says Red Light and you don't stop RIGHT AWAY?" Answer: "Mommy takes the tricycle away."

Once the expectations are set up and clear, we can finally step outside and have fun! Yep, he's had the trike taken away on many occasions. But when he does stop, I praise him for listening well and stopping right away. Red Light keeps him from getting too far ahead of me, so there are usually 4 or 5 Red Lights per block--it's not just reserved for the intersection or driveways. And he thinks it's a fun game to play. But a Red Light is a Red Light: if he doesn't stop right away, it doesn't matter what the excuse was (claiming he couldn't hear me, or that the sidewalk was sloping downward, or that there weren't any cars in that particular driveway or whatever), I take the trike.

The other really important thing is that the consequence is that it's spelled out in advance, and I follow through with it, but it's not excessive. I don't take the trike for a whole week: he's only 3, and a week is a VERY long time when you are 3! Plus, how can he practice following the rules if you he so infrequently gets the chance to practice? Nor does he lose our fun time at the park. The infraction was about the trike, and the trike only.

We finish going to the park, but I carry the trike. And I carry it back. The next time he wants to ride his trike to the park, be that tomorrow or a few days from now, we start over from the very beginning. He has to wear his helmet. We review the rules about Red Light and Green Light. He has to tell me whether he has to stop RIGHT AWAY or if he can keep going a little bit and then stop. He tells me what happens if he doesn't stop RIGHT AWAY. And only then do we step out the door.

If he makes it 90% of the way to the park before losing the trike, I still praise him for having listened so well for so long, but yep, the trike is taken away, and we walk the rest of the way. Recognize that at age 3 it's really hard to focus on following the rules for soooooo long, and absolutely give your kid credit for doing such a great job. But getting excited because you see the park and then getting yourself killed is not gonna cut it--thus, mommy takes the trike away, and we walk the rest of the way to the park and back.

We've made it all the way TO the park quite a few times; I don't think we've ever made it all the way there AND back home. LOL! But you know what? DS is learning how to meet some very high expectations for his behavior, and we are very proud of him for that. Other people who see him triking along the sidewalk are always impressed how well he's listening too, and generally also give him some kudos for being such a big boy and being so safe and listening to Mommy. So I think following very strict rules can be taught, but you do have to realize that it is a process that requires a high degree of self-control, persistence, and practice! Like any new skill, your kids aren't going to be perfect at it the first time around, but with continued practice, they can learn. And cheer them along in the process, because these skills that we take for granted really are not easy skills to learn.


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## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

the only trick I"ve learned so far is to have a thick skin.


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