# Sleeping in carseats is not safe- help me find the proof, please.



## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

Hi everyone. I know when I try to google this, I come up with all kinds of articles about it. Id like to find a clear, cut and dry study that shows scientific proof that sleeping in carseats decreases infant oxygen levels. Does anyone have a link or know a good place for me to look?


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## BeeandOwlsMum (Jul 11, 2002)

Gosh, there was one not too long ago that showed after 90 minutes in the car seat the child's oxygen level decreased significantly. I will see what I can dig up.


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## BeeandOwlsMum (Jul 11, 2002)

http://www.drmomma.org/2010/02/aap-car-seats-lower-oxygen-levels-of.html

That article says it was originally published in Pediatrics in Sept 2009.

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-08-24/health/car.seat.blood.oxygen_1_infant-car-car-seats-car-seat-safety?_s=PM:HEALTH

Same conclusion, no link to the original study.

This one seems to have the links to the actual studies - just scroll down. There are a couplee of link to the Pediatrics stuff.

http://www.carseatinfo.co.uk/index.cfm?sid=19086&pid=292366


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## lshill929 (Jun 27, 2012)

CarSeatInfo is a great site that provides useful information on researches.


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## emilysmama (Jun 22, 2005)

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/108/3/647.abstract

That's the abstract to the actual study.


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## hildare (Jul 6, 2009)

Merchant JR, Worwa C, Porter S, Coleman JM, deRegnier R-AO. Respiratory instability of term and near-term infants in car safety seats. Pediatrics. 2001;108:647-652

American Academy of Pediatrics, Committee on Injury and Poison Prevention and Committee on Fetus and Newborn. Safe transportation of premature and low birth weight infants. Pediatrics. 1996;97:758-760

Willett LD, Leuschen P, Nelson LS, Nelson RM. Risk of hypoventilation in premature infants in car seats. J Pediatr. 1986;109:245-248

Willett LD, Leuschen P, Nelson LS, Nelson RM. Ventilatory changes in convalescent infants positioned in car seats. J Pediatr. 1989;15:451-455

Bass JL, Mehta KA, Camara J. Monitoring premature infants in car seats: implementing the American Academy of Pediatrics policy in a community hospital. Pediatrics. 1993;91:1137-1141


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## anjsmama (Apr 6, 2011)

Wait... At the risk of sounding stupid, how do you prevent sleeping in a carseat? DD frequently falls asleep on the way home from the park or lake..?


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## BeeandOwlsMum (Jul 11, 2002)

It is less about the child falling asleep in the car, during a car ride, but more about bringing the infant seat inside and allowing your baby to nap in it for extended periods of time - as far as I can tell. I don't think there is anyway to prevent a child from falling asleep in the car.


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

No, for me it's more about proving to DH and my parents and MIL that carrying a child around in a bucket seat so that they will stay asleep for longer is not safe. I don't intend on attempting to keep the babies from sleeping in the car.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

Because I said so, should be sufficient. And then stomp around. That's what I do. You don't really need to prove why you're uncomfortable with it to your family. Tell them to respect your wishes and leave it at that. Do some stomping too.


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

I love you


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## brigala (Apr 26, 2010)

Right, the issue is not whether the child is awake or asleep when riding the car. The issue is leaving the baby in the car seat for extended periods of time. Ideally, a child should only be in the car seat when the car is being driven around, and taken out to stretch and get a "breather" (literally) every 30 minutes or so on longer trips.

Even if the infant is awake, riding around in the car seat in a stroller or sitting in the car seat in the house for prolonged periods of time is not healthy. We don't really know what the long-term effects are, but the fact that their oxygen saturation levels are lower in the car seat is enough to raise concern that the car seat is not the optimal place for a child to hang out all day.

The same may be true of infant swings which hold the child in a position similar to that of a car seat.


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## Coco_Hikes (Nov 26, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imakcerka*
> 
> Because I said so, should be sufficient. And then stomp around. That's what I do. You don't really need to prove why you're uncomfortable with it to your family. Tell them to respect your wishes and leave it at that. Do some stomping too.


This. And only birthing babes, like mine, who wake up as soon as you turn off the ignition. I had a friend who could not believe that we didn't cart our bucket-size babes into the house still asleep like she did hers. I couldn't believe her kids didn't awake from all that jostling about! Hearing about this O2 level issue way after the fact, I'm glad for my wakers.


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## anj_rn (Oct 1, 2009)

Leaving an infant in the bucket seat to sleep longer is often a cause of plagiocephaly (a flattening of the head). The infant skull is still soft and the sutures are not fixed, so prolonged periods of time with pressure on the same part of the skull can cause the skull to flatten. If it is severe, the should have to wear a helmet 23 hours a day to fix head shape.

Just another reason not to do it for your arsenal.


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## tillymonster (May 12, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anj_rn*
> 
> Leaving an infant in the bucket seat to sleep longer is often a cause of plagiocephaly (a flattening of the head). The infant skull is still soft and the sutures are not fixed, so prolonged periods of time with pressure on the same part of the skull can cause the skull to flatten. If it is severe, the should have to wear a helmet 23 hours a day to fix head shape. Just another reason not to do it for your arsenal.


I've always wondered what caused the flattening. I've heard and assumed it'd from laying your infant/baby down too much but this carseat substitution for carrying your child makes sense. I dont have a kid who can stand the car for very long and always get weird looks when I tell people that no, DD doesn't sleep in the car. I can't train her either, I tell them. Le Sigh. I second the stomping around! Ha!

SIL left her 10mo in the car while napping and came inside to visit during my DDs birthday party at an ice cream parlor. Granted the car was in view. But this seemed so weird to me. I would have never thought to do that. I'd just unbuckle and put DD in a sling so she's safe and sound with mama.


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## SeattleRain (Mar 15, 2009)

It's really dangerous to leave kids sleeping in the car, particularly in July. Kids can actually die really quickly like that, cars heat up really fast.

I don't want to be nitpicky, but none of the studies linked are relevant to full-term infants. All of them deal with premature infants, who have risk factors for oxygen desaturation to begin with. If you have a preemie, you should definitely be concerned about leaving a baby in anything but a flat position (i.e. not in swings, bouncy seats, car seats, etc.). But to the full term infant, there is no study showing that they are harmed by their infant seat due to oxygen desaturation. While leaving a baby in a car seat all day CAN cause plagiocephely, so can a lot of things. Having a baby on their back to sleep can cause plagiocephely, which is exactly how you should have them. In order to prevent plagiocephely entirely, you would have to literally hold your baby the entire day 24/7 which just isn't practical. Some kids seem to be more prone to plagiocephely REGARDLESS of their car seat useage, and some kids seem entirely unharmed.

I just felt like I had to say this because I don't want people to jump to the conclusion that babies sleeping in their car seats for limited amounts of time is "not safe" for the typical infant. It's one of those things where there's a lot of factors going on here. No one believes that children should be in their car seats for extended amounts of time, but I also don't think it's something as bad as its made out to be. I'd be more concerned that there are a lot of injuries caused every year from babies in their infant seats being used outside of the car. People put them on top of the cart, or they put them on top of tables, or even having them near other young kids who might knock them over. All of those I see as a good reason to try and only use them in the car as a rule. But personally, I wouldn't wake a sleeping baby (especially two) just on the principal of wanting them to sleep somewhere other than their car seat.

How are you hoping to transport the twins outside of the house? I know a lot of twin mamas use the infant seats on a frame in the early months, but I think that's definitely too much car seat time. A Moby is a good carrier in the beginning, but I've never seen people use them with older infant twins. Do you plan on getting a stroller that accomidates a bassinet? Other than baby wearing, a bassinet is the safest way to transport them.


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeattleRain*
> 
> It's really dangerous to leave kids sleeping in the car, particularly in July. Kids can actually die really quickly like that, cars heat up really fast.
> 
> ...


Yes, this. Limited amounts of time are one thing. However, pretty much anywhere we go is at least a 30 minute drive in my car, and IMO that is limited enough amount of time.

As for the bolded, I will wake as many sleeping babies as I need to so that I can keep my sanity. I do intend on only using carseats in the car (we arent buying infant buckets). I lost a baby to SIDS in April, so I could care less if any baby ever sleeps again.







I'm minimizing risks all around.

I got a stroller that lays flat. I have a moby, and a boba (hopefully I can get another one of these so I can front and back carry when they are older). Mainly, I forsee my two year old being in the stroller, one twin being in the stroller, and one twin being in whatever carrier Im wearing so they can nurse. I guess I just picture having to nurse 24/7







But honestly, I dont see us going too many places in the first couple of months.


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## Alphaghetti (May 26, 2005)

Wow. I have never ever heard anything about this before. I don't have babies any more, and haven't for quite some time. I guess I'll have to read up!


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## mkksmom (Mar 24, 2008)

Not going out much in the beginning is a pretty realistic expectation. My brother and exSIL have twins and they spent most of their day with them on the living room floor. It was just easier to care for everyone that way. My SIL didn't like tandem nursing, preferred individual time with each baby. plus the diapers. It was easier to be close to the other baby while changing the sibling if they were all on the floor.

As for limited sleeping in the car seat or any other random rule you want to enforce, be persistent. After losing your son, they have to respect that you need them to follow this for your own sanity. Maybe if you tell them that you know you can't control everything, but you'll feel better if you follow all of the safety rules. That's what I tell everyone who laughs at my car seat rules. My neighbors think I'm nuts to have an 8 year old in a booster at all and a 3 yr old rfing. I tell them that I saw my mom in a coma for a month due to a car accident.She's fine now, but I didn't drive for a while after that. I know I can't stop driving/riding in cars altogether, and I can't control everything. But what I can do is make sure to educate myself on the safety rules, chose the safest options for my family, drive safely and pray. If following all of the safety rules gives me a sense of comfort and control, then that's what I'll do to keep myself sane. That has helped some of my friends see things from my point of view.

Also as an aside, I had 3 miscarriages after my first was born, and things were different for me when my second was tiny. Poor little one, I woke her up very abruptly several times because she was breathing very shallowly, and scared the pants off me. I finally had to put her in a crib right next to my bed and get a monitor that detects movement. There is the angel care or something like that, but I read better reviews for the BabySenseV, and I never had a false alarm with that one. You are supposed to run a test on it to see if it's moving and make sure it isn't picking up vibrations from the heater vent, etc. I did that test every single night. That's what I needed to do to get sleep, and we got through it, and then I passed it on to someone who also lost her 14 month old and was expecting another baby. The point is, you do what you can to get through it.


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## SeattleRain (Mar 15, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Adaline'sMama*
> 
> Yes, this. Limited amounts of time are one thing. However, pretty much anywhere we go is at least a 30 minute drive in my car, and IMO that is limited enough amount of time.
> As for the bolded, I will wake as many sleeping babies as I need to so that I can keep my sanity. I do intend on only using carseats in the car (we arent buying infant buckets). I lost a baby to SIDS in April, so I could care less if any baby ever sleeps again.
> ...


You are totally right. You can and should wake your babies as much as you want for your own sanity, understandably. I just want you, and everyone else who reads this thread and doesn't have the same circumstances, to know that in general, this isn't something that should be super high on your worrying list. The vast majority of regular term infants are just fine in their infant seats for limited amounts of time and even for slightly longer amounts of time than just 30 minutes. Everyone has to do what they do in order to get through the day with their kids. For you, it's going to be waking them up to move into the house even if it's less convenient, because your mind will be at ease. For another mom, they're so desperate to get sleep and hanging on by a shred that anytime the kid is sleeping, they're not interfering. IMHO, both mothers are right. I just don't want that 2nd mom to feel like she's putting her child in grave danger.

Also, I think you have to realize that you're probably going to be having premature infants which changes the ball game entirely. They ARE more likely to have desaturation and you SHOULD be cautious about having them in the seat all day. I think it's reasonable to assume that in the early days, you're going to be spending a lot of time at home. It does seem like you have a plan about how you're going to transport them. I've met women who like you, didn't want an infant bucket, but then were really overwhelmed trying to figure out how to get themselves and their babies anywhere, and this is without a 2 year old in tow. We always say "Just hold the baby!" but it starts to get really challenging when you're talking about holding TWO babies, plus the hand of a little one. That's when they start resorting to the bucket seat because it's just SO much easier. Having something in place is good. Have you seen the new Boba Air? It looked to me to be perfect for multiples because it's so light, it would be easier to layer one on top of the other.

I'm sorry for you loss. You're really brave to be looking forward.


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## drjanescott (Aug 21, 2012)

Spending too much time in a carseat also increases an infant's risk of developing plagiocephaly (flat head syndrome) and torticollis. Car seats should only be used when traveling in a vehicle, and not when the baby is out of the vehicle. Wearing your baby is one way to conveniently carry your baby without placing them in a carseat or stroller. Thanks for posting!


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## drjanescott (Aug 21, 2012)

Spending too much time in a carseat also increases an infant's risk of developing plagiocephaly (flat head syndrome) and torticollis. Car seats should only be used when traveling in a vehicle, and not when the baby is out of the vehicle. Wearing your baby is one way to conveniently carry your baby without placing them in a carseat or stroller. Thanks for posting!


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