# What's YOUR mainstream???



## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Some of the threads here got me to thinking about what people veiw as "mainstream" depends so much on where they live.

Where I live, an upper middle class suburb of a big city with a nearby University where many people work the mainstream on the following issues is:

*Breastfeeding: Almost everyone tries it. I'd say 75 precent do it for a full year. Few people do it after a year.

*Co-sleeping: Almost no one does it by making a decision to do it. I'd say a good 1/4 end up doing it but don't really talk about it.

*Vaxing: 100 percent done. Have never heard of anyone who resists though there is MUCH knowledge about issue out there (many scientists in these midsts.) Also many doctors here.

*Babywearing. Done by maybe 20 percent. Babies are seldom heard crying in a stroller though. Moms here do pick up their kids and hold them, for the most part.

*Daycare: Very little outside of the home (nanny). Most women are SAH moms who do have "babysitters' help out 1 to 5 days per week. Babysitter used mostly to stay with kids while napping or stay with younger ones' while mom is out with older kids.

*Pre-school: Only one child in any of my dd's kindergarten classes came in without first going to preschoo. BUT this means TRUE "preschool" not some form of day care. No more than 2 hours 2 to 5 days per week. Most are "developmental" Almost no one interested in their children learning anything specific at this age (big feeling that there will be pleanty of time for that later since most expect kids here will go on to not just college but some form of post graduate degree

*CIO: Proabably done by about 60-70 percent of moms. Two of the biggest ped's in town trained under one of the big "sleep doctors".

*Circ: This is a heavily Jewish area. Every single person I know who has done it, has done it for religious reasons. (ETA...I know one person, who is not Jewish but works for a big health public policy iniative and did it becasue she truly believs it is best. She got a Jewish Mohel (Person trained in ritual Jewish circumcission) to do it because she felt they were the best at it (its all they do...a full time job) and because she feels that are very proactive about pain relief.

*Discipline: Spanking just "not done." It is considered "low class". So is yelling at your child in public. Majority uses some form of "time out" but a substantial number also just GD (Not TCS or CL though)

*TV: Education is EXTREMELY important to the parents here. Most people restrict both the amount and content of television watching. No one I know of is TV free though.

*Character Clothing. Again considered "low class" A shirt from Disney World might be worn as very casual clothes. But you dont' see much of this.

*Toys: Again character stuff just not considered very high class. Two very nice local toy stores do most of the business in town. Sell NO character stuff, though not NFL stuff by any means.
*Food: Natural Food stores do brisk business. Most parents resist buying the junkiest of the junk (trans-fats etc...). Mothers pride themselves on cooking healthy meals.


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## siobhang (Oct 23, 2005)

wow, you live in my area? LOL

Except for the high percentage of Jews (I live in DC Metro area, there are people from everywhere here), where you live sounds like where I live.

I have not yet met a woman IRL who didn't at least try to breastfeed. Few spank, few let their kids watch a lot of TV, most feed their kids pretty well (though too much processed food/sugary snacks in my opinion, but then we also fall victim to "oh darn, look at the time, I guess a frozen pizza or easy mac and cheese will do").

Siobhan


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## Kidzaplenty (Jun 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maya44*
Some of the threads here got me to thinking about what people veiw as "mainstream" depends so much on where they live.

Where I live it is more like this:

*Breastfeeding: Everyone tries it. Few people do it.

*Co-sleeping: Almost no one does it.

*Vaxing: 100 percent done.

*Babywearing. Just me.

*Daycare: Most all the children I know are in daycare.

*Pre-school: The place to send your child as soon as they are old enough.

*CIO: Most do it. And Making baby stick to a schedule is VERY important.

*Circ: Majority do it.

*Discipline: Spanking is done, some, but most don't, not out of conviction but just because they don't discipline at all.

*TV: Hey, kids can watch as much TV as they can cram into the day!

*Character Clothing. Everyone's Doing It!

*Toys: Anything and everything that they can get their hands on. Many seem so greedy.

*Food: What ever is the cheapest or most convenient.


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## Jennisee (Nov 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kidzaplenty*
Where I live it is more like this:

*Breastfeeding: Everyone tries it. Few people do it.

*Co-sleeping: Almost no one does it.

*Vaxing: 100 percent done.

*Babywearing. Just me.

*Daycare: Most all the children I know are in daycare.

*Pre-school: The place to send your child as soon as they are old enough.

*CIO: Most do it. And Making baby stick to a schedule is VERY important.

*Circ: Majority do it.

*Discipline: Spanking is done, some, but most don't, not out of conviction but just because they don't discipline at all.

*TV: Hey, kids can watch as much TV as they can cram into the day!

*Character Clothing. Everyone's Doing It!

*Toys: Anything and everything that they can get their hands on. Many seem so greedy.

*Food: What ever is the cheapest or most convenient.

Hey, you saved me the trouble of typing it all out!







That describes where I live perfectly.


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## chrfath (Jun 5, 2003)

Interesting. I don't really know that many people with kids around me. Those I do I know from LLL so I can't really give a good view point.


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## adtake (Feb 1, 2006)

Ok..here I go... background first: I live in a low income, low education, factory based area.

breastfeeding: a select few of the middle-high class moms, maybe %35 start...%20 at a year old....%5 over a year

babywearing: maybe 5 moms in all the town..all LLL moms that I know

co-sleeping: a select few, probably more than admit it

vax: everyone

daycare: I would say a huge percentage.

cio: I would say a bigger numbers than should be

TV: all the time

displine: spanking is the favorite in this area...

food: rc and moonpies...ok..crap...

toys: everything that walmart has, our only real store in town, only place to buy toys

character clothing: all over the place, especially NASAR!









We are slowly educating the groups we are in...but the mainstay around here is do what your momma did, doctors are god, and you are rich if you use formula! Still I like being out of the norm!


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *smlwieber*
breastfeeding: a select few of the middle-high class moms, maybe %35 start...%20 at a year old....%5 over a year

you are rich if you use formula!

I am almost afraid to ask what they give their infants! It's not RC is it







:


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## pookel (May 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maya44*
*Character Clothing. Again considered "low class" A shirt from Disney World might be worn as very casual clothes. But you dont' see much of this.

*Toys: Again character stuff just not considered very high class. Two very nice local toy stores do most of the business in town. Sell NO character stuff, though not NFL stuff by any means.

I don't have time to comment on all of your post, but these two just made me go WOW. Around here we are mostly on the other side of this issue - kids wear a fair amount of character clothing, but for the parents who don't buy it, it's because it's seen as a waste of money, because you're paying for the marketing. The attitude is more likely to be "why buy Disney stuff when I can just get him some plain shirts and old toys at garage sales?" I would guess that if you polled people around here, they would be more likely to call Disney clothes "something rich people waste money on" than "low class."


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## bright (Mar 10, 2005)

Mainstream around here:

- breastfeeding short term, maybe up to a year, usually less. Anything longer is somewhat scandalous

- crib to toddler bed

- two cars, newish, lots of talk of house renovations

- middle of the road to leftish politics

- time outs

- cio









- sposies


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## oldcrunchymom (Jun 26, 2002)

Well, where we live is low-income and semi-rural and fairly stereotypical of what you'd expect from such an area. Very low breastfeeding rates, both spanking and yelling in public common, lots of TV, etc. However, go 10 miles to the east and it's total Crunchville complete with a Whole Foods and AP playgroups. Go the same distance south and it's sort of a mix. So it's kinda weird living here.


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## arlecchina (Jul 25, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kidzaplenty*
Where I live it is more like this:

*Breastfeeding: Everyone tries it. Few people do it.

*Co-sleeping: Almost no one does it.

*Vaxing: 100 percent done.

*Babywearing. Just me.

*Daycare: Most all the children I know are in daycare.

*Pre-school: The place to send your child as soon as they are old enough.

*CIO: Most do it. And Making baby stick to a schedule is VERY important.

*Circ: Majority do it.

*Discipline: Spanking is done, some, but most don't, not out of conviction but just because they don't discipline at all.

*TV: Hey, kids can watch as much TV as they can cram into the day!

*Character Clothing. Everyone's Doing It!

*Toys: Anything and everything that they can get their hands on. Many seem so greedy.

*Food: What ever is the cheapest or most convenient.

exactly the same here.


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## northern_sunshine (Mar 15, 2006)

I live in a VERY rural, low- middle class area. Large amount of factory/plant workers. No access to "alternative" stores or groups/care (LLL, LC's, Etc) nearby.

*Breastfeeding: Most try it, few do it. I know one person who nursed past 1 yr (did 18 mos with her 1st)

*Co-sleeping: I think most people do it for a period, unintentionally.

*Vaxing: 100 percent done, as far as I know.

*Babywearing. Not done, yet. (I will be a trendsetter







)

*Daycare: Only done if necessary (both parents working, no family who can do it). Most is in home/in someone elses home/relative taking care of the child if parents aren't there.

*Pre-school: Some do it, it's 2 - 3 days a week for the morning and only available the last couple years. More like a non-parent involved playgroup.

*CIO: Most do it, probably 90%?

*Circ: Was done routinely in the past, movement has been away from it because provincial healthcare no longer covers it and most people have no insurance/insurance won't cover it. Plus most people view it as unnecessary.

*Discipline: Still quite a bit of spanking and yelling (though not in public), time-outs are on the rise.

*TV: Really not sure here. I'd say MOST let their kids watch some TV, some monitor more closely than others, some let them just use it as a babysitter. I don't think anyone is TV-Free.

*Character Clothing. Lots of it, lots of disney, spongebob and NASCAR, as well as a blend of Harry Potter, Dora and various other minor characters.

*Toys: Plenty of it. Not much of a selection here, Wal-Mart is pretty much it and that's 30 mins one way away from here.

*Food: Whatever you can get. 2 large supermarkets 30 mins from here for best selection (one has a pretty wide variety of organics). I think there is a lot of use of convenience foods.


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## LoveBeads (Jul 8, 2002)

Maya, I think we must be neighbors. Everything you said is the same for my area.

I feel very lucky about that. I have only seen a child hit twice in my life - both times we were out of town on vacation. People really think about the way they parent and even though they may do things such as vaxing or time outs, they want their kids to eat healthily, they don't hit or scream and they try to turn out children with decent ethics.

Very interesting thread.


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pookel*
I don't have time to comment on all of your post, but these two just made me go WOW. Around here we are mostly on the other side of this issue - kids wear a fair amount of character clothing, but for the parents who don't buy it, it's because it's seen as a waste of money, because you're paying for the marketing. The attitude is more likely to be "why buy Disney stuff when I can just get him some plain shirts and old toys at garage sales?" I would guess that if you polled people around here, they would be more likely to call Disney clothes "something rich people waste money on" than "low class."

Yeah, people are into brands that cost $35-40 for a shirt and the jeans that they are showing in the popular stores cost $50 or more!!!!!!

The low cost options would be Old Navy which is considered good "send your kid to messy day camp clothes." Character clothing is just considred sort of I dont' know "icky' but I don't think its because its 'free marketing.'

I'm not sure what it is. Maybe its that alot of moms around here want their kids to look totally "pulled together" and character clothing doesn't fit in with this.


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## Herausgeber (Apr 29, 2006)

At 6 months pregnant, I'm just starting to get a feel for this. Of the moms I know here, most of whom are upper-middle class and well-educated, I'd guess it breaks down this way

*Breastfeeding: Almost everyone tries it. Most do it for about a year. My closest mommy friend from work is still nursing at 23 months, and plans to CLW. Lots of breast pumps! The nurses' office even has a private little space for us to do our business. It's quite pleasant, I hear.

*Co-sleeping: Everyone who nurses seems to do it, at least at first.

*Vaxing: 100 percent done, as far ask I can tell. Nobody that I have talked to about finding a ped who would let me delay/selective vax looked at me like I was nuts, though.

*Babywearing. Lots of it! The upper-class urban mommies, and quite a few of the daddies, sport baby bjorns. Carriers are a bit of a status symbol. The only time I really see strollers with that crowd are for walking/jogging, and they are always the super-expensive ones. In my neighborhood, though, which is working/lower-middle class, though I see more moms with strollers, including on the bus. Those ladies need carriers more than anybody, but I'm not really sure how to spread the message without them thinking I am nuts!

*Daycare: Since I mainly know moms who work serious career-type jobs, the kids are in daycare, and it's tres expensive and high quality. Those with several kids often have nannies. We have lots of daycare co-ops around here, too. Some of the moms and dads stay home for up to a year with the little ones, but this area has a very high cost of living, so most households are two-income.

*Pre-school: Everybody goes, even the kids with nannies and SAHPs. People here are very competitive about education and all about having the smartest kid. Montessori is big.

*CIO: There may be some CIO, but the only person who I have ever heard actively advocate CIO here was a bartender to tried to convince my DP that babies could be put on a schedule.

*Circ: No one really talks about it, it seems. I know it's considered a cosmetic procedure here, and you generally have to pay out of pocket and find a doctor to do it. I have one friend who is planning to have her son circed, because the dad wants it, not her, and she doesn't feel like fighting him on it. Sad, I think, but her choice.









*Discipline: Spanking and yelling are considered "low class" here, as well. Lots of time out. Some GD.

*TV: Young kids are restricted in terms of TV and movie watching. Lots of Internet monitering, too, it seems. Some families don't even have TVs. It depends on where they live, though. Some neighborhoods are crunchier than others.

*Character Clothing. Also considered "low class" here.

*Toys: Mixed. You'll see educational toys lined up next to piles of the Barbie/Princess/Disney crap. More shocking to me is the sheer amount of equipment kids here have. Everyone is big on organized sports and skiing and stuff like that. If you walk into a suburban house of a family with kids, it's guaranteed you will trip over someone's pint-sized lacrosse stick, roller blades or snow skis in the foyer.

*Food: Whole Foods makes a lot of money here! We also have a lot of farmer's markets and such. No one has time to cook during the week, though, so plenty of takeout and prepared food from the deli.


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## pookel (May 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maya44*
Yeah, people are into brands that cost $35-40 for a shirt and the jeans that they are showing in the popular stores cost $50 or more!!!!!!

Yeah, I saw mention of Hanna Andersson clothes here on MDC and went to check out their online catalog ...







: I could buy my son's entire *wardrobe* in one size for the price of a single shirt!

It's hard for me to categorize my region in a lot of these areas. I think the majority of parents spank, but you don't see kids getting screamed at in public. Attitudes on discipline seem to be old-fashioned but respectful - insofar as those old-fashioned methods can be respectful. Compared to what I've seen from parents in public in Oklahoma, where I'm from, I think parents here are far more gentle and attentive to their kids.

Circumcision ... I only know the experiences of three couples in my group of friends. The two who are crunchy and into CDing, cosleeping, BFing, etc., both circumcised their sons. The couple who make their babies CIO for *hours* didn't - the mom said to me, "I heard that a lot of people don't anymore, so I figured there was no reason to."









Cosleeping, babywearing, breastfeeding ... in my experience, not many people do it (well, everyone tries breastfeeding, but there's not a lot of support around here, and most don't make it), but they don't give you funny looks for it either. The mall has a nice room off one of the women's bathrooms with comfy chairs for breastfeeding (worked well for bottles, too, but I assume it was meant for breastfeeders). I've seen moms breastfeeding out in public at the mall, too. When I've mentioned cosleeping, I tend to get a reaction of "huh, really? that's interesting" rather than "don't do it!"

Day care ... I think most people use day care. I don't know of anyone who uses nannies around here (although, my home day care provider used to be a nanny, so I guess *someone* does). Preschool, there's Head Start and a couple of Montessori schools. I don't know if most kids go to preschool, but it's not considered necessary here like it is some places.

Food ... I live in the land that Dave Barry characterized as having three food groups: hotdish, bars, and things suspended in jello. What can I say?


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## MomInCalifornia (Jul 17, 2003)

Our area sounds much like yours Maya.

I am in the Bay Area, about 45 minutes out of San Francisco. It is a very high income, very pricy place.

-Most moms I know breastfeed
-I see a lot of slings out and about
-I don't remember the last time I saw a child spanked
-My daughters preschool has quite a few intact boys
-Character clothis is also thought of as cheap and not very popular
- I know a lot of stay at home moms, but most of my friends are from LLL and my daughters co-op prschool so my view might not be totally biassed
-Preschool is 2 hours a day, 2 or 3 days a week as well


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## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

maya44 said:


> Some of the threads here got me to thinking about what people veiw as "mainstream" depends so much on where they live.
> 
> 
> > college town in Appalachia but there are some Mennonite families in the area. Also a handful of crunchy families.
> ...


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## Al Dente (Jan 8, 2004)

Interesting thread!









*Breastfeeding: About half the moms I know try it and stop at or before 1 year. I am the only mom I've seen or talked to that lives in this area that is bf a toddler.

*Co-sleeping: No one that admits it does it. Most are appalled that I do it.

*Vaxing: 100 percent done. Again, I'm the only person I know that does not do it. I have gotten the 3rd degree by several doctors and there have actually been moms that didn't want us to play with their kids.









*Babywearing. I have seen ONE sling since I moved here. Maybe it's because I don't babywear anymore since ds is 2.5 and loves the stroller. Maybe I just don't notice. But I doubt it!

*Daycare: Most women WOH. Many say they want to stay home and I believe them...our economy in this state is in the toilet right now.

*Pre-school: I'm not sure, only because ds is not of that age yet and I haven't really been in on this discussion with anyone. My one friend that does have older kids uses a 3 hr a day preschool for her 4 yo.

*CIO: There has only been ONE MOM that told me she thought it was detrimental and she couldn't do it. It is heavily prescribed as the "cure all" for sleep problems for babies as young as 6 wks. I get so sad...I can't even argue anymore because it makes me want to hug their babies and cry.

*Circ: Ds is the only boy I've seen since we moved here that was not circed.

*Discipline: Lots of spanking, lots of Dobson. I'm considered "permissive".

*TV: Another area I know nothing about, haven't entered into the discussions. Seems every kid knows Thomas the train and bob the builder and dora and all that, so I assume they do watch TV.

*Character Clothing. Haven't seen it too much.

*Toys: I've seen no wooden toys, they are mostly all electronic plasticky gadgets. I was looked at like I had 2 heads when I said ds doesn't own those kinds of toys (by a mom commenting on how thrilled he was to play with the toys in the nursery). I think they think ds is deprived!

*Food: No whole foods or natural food stores that I am aware of. The pricey grocery store carries 2 aisles of organic or "custom" foods and that's it. There is no such thing as free range chicken or beef, although I do buy the cage free eggs and organic milk all the time.


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## frontierpsych (Jun 11, 2006)

In my area:

If anyone breastfeeds, I don't know about it. Our LLL is made up of like five women. All I see in public is bottles.

Only the handful of women in LLL wear their babies. Other than that, all I see is strollers.

Homebirth is UNHEARD OF (so I'm sure to keep quiet about my UC!)

I don't see much in the form of GD. Kids here get smacked around and yelled at a lot.

You'd think the TV was a God.


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## JoyJoy1975 (May 10, 2006)

I wish I lived in your areas LOL.

Breastfeeding: Many moms try it but I see a crap load of bottles everywhere I go. But if a mom BF their are places for her to sit and do so like rocking chairs ect..(at the mall, doctors office)
*Co-sleeping: I think that is pretty common as we are a hispanic community and many share houses with other family and its pretty norm in Mexico.
*Vaxing: We have a lot of kids with out vaxines because their parents are imagrents and have not done it once they enter school though that changes.

*Babywearing. I have seen a few and mostly the white community uses strollers here. The mexican ladies carry thier babies and some use slings.
*Daycare: Their is little daycare choices here so if you need one good luck there all full. Mostly the richer or well off people use those and most the time its the white community. Hispanic woman stay home with their kids more.

*Pre-school: Headstart is very popular and many part day kids are Hispanic and the full day kids are more white. I see their are some others not sure couse my kids never went to them.
*CIO: I think it depends on the mom, I really haven't met a whole lot that do that. But I am sure it goes on.

*Circ: Most Hispanics are not Circ and again we live in a hispanic community.
*Discipline: I have seen both some spank and some are permissive. Some are ok.

*TV: Yes TV is popular here. I don't know about cable but PBS kids and they have movies to rent.We don't have cable but my kids love Dora we rent them once in a while.
*Character Clothing. Only the cool kids have that.
*Toys: What ever the hottest thing is they love them. My kids get mostly old fashioned kind.

*Food: Health food store and the mall other good stores are in the next big twon. Not far 10 drive. Now here their are lots of carnicaria (?sp) Mexican Pastery shops and they have fresh breads and stuff. They are good and have way less sugar then American Donoughts. You can get fresh tortilla's too and if you get Corn their not bad for you. True Authinetic Mexican Dishes are not that bad for you its the Americanized versions cheese, sour cream ect.. That make them bad. The majority of wealthy people in our area are LDS and they have many health food bussiness available like Melaluca ect..


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## eminer (Jan 21, 2003)

In the north central Bronx...

*Breastfeeding: Most do not. Those who do, hide.

*Co-sleeping: I don't know, but I'm guessing that lots of people do it. In response to this "problem," ACS has an ad campaign going in the subway to "teach" people that it's not safe to co-sleep.









*Vaxing: Usually done.

*Babywearing: Strollers are an institution, and babies are generally submerged in way more layers of blankets and plastic stroller wrap than seem seasonally appropriate to me. Kids learn very early to stay in the stroller (I guess when their parents refuse to respond to their cries in any way other than popping a pacifier or pushing the stroller back and forth). However, it is common to see newborns in a constructed front carrier. And occasionally, I see African mothers carrying on their backs.

*Daycare: By statistics, most are cared for at home. There is a fair amount of daycare going on also, and a few nannies.

*Pre-school: _Everyone_ goes. I know of one other kid, besides my dd, in our neighborhood who has not gone to preschool, and many start as young as 2yo.

*CIO: I don't know. I don't ask.









*Circ: Don't know this one either, but possibly not, since I don't think it is routinely practiced in most parts of Latin America.

*Discipline: Nasty, nasty, awful, awful, awful.







People yell and hit in public, but they also overrestrict to a point that is hard to believe. Today I saw a mother barking at her toddler to sit properly in a ride-on toy, with a severe look on her face, while getting ready to put in the quarter to start the toy. That is completely typical. It's like, what's the point? How much fun can you have when your mom follows you up and down the slide ordering you to climb this way not that way, move faster, don't stop and play on that, etc.

*TV: People watch it.

*Character Clothing. People aren't opposed to it, but most clothes sold in local stores don't fall into this category, so it's not especially pervasive.

*Toys: Toys are considered important. There are lots of them sold locally, varying from the wooden educational variety to the plastic talking variety. Following the general commercial pattern (see clothing), the toys are typically little-known brands and knock-offs. There is a general affection for children and belief that they should be indulged, expressed through toys and candy, which rubs against the discipline stuff above.

*Food: There is a significant natural foods contingent, and a general awareness of and regard for organics. Also a great place to pick up rice and beans with fried plantain and maybe some bulla bread for dessert.


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## Nora'sMama (Apr 8, 2005)

The mainstream of the moms I know is pretty crunchy. Lots of extended breastfeeding, wooden toys, healthy food, gentle(r) discipline, a lot of the same characteristics that maya44 described (and I bet I know where you live, maya44!). However, these moms are moms I know from two places: LLL and graduate student housing at the local university. I have a regular playdate with an MDC mama who is a grad student, and through her I have met the grad student moms; and I faithfully attend LLL meetings.

I don't know a lot of other local moms very well but I'll tell you that in my immediate neighborhood the mainstream is VERY non-crunchy. The neighbors are currently letting their baby CIO and it sucks. The other neighbor used to scream and curse at her two-year-old all the time (luckily she hasn't done this within my earshot for a while). Plenty of people use Bjorns but no slings, lots of character T-shirts, lots of grabbing kids/yelling at kids/letting grade school kids run absolutely wild and destroy property, etc. Lots of little kids walking around with candy and slushies, etc. Everyone's TV is always on. Ack! I've never seen anyone breastfeeding in my condo complex, so I have no idea about what the norm is for that, but I'd guess that it's mostly formula-feeders around here. The neighbor who used to scream at her kid is now pregnant and I'm really interested to see if she will BF or FF. I'm betting 100% FF right from the start, but I'm hoping to be surprised.

We'll be moving closer to the university in November. I...can't...wait.


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## SomedayMom (May 9, 2002)

I live in the Bible Belt. Sadly, Babywise is mainstream here.

So, to not schedule, not CIO, and gently discipline alone is enough to make me a freak. Oh, and that whole thing about exclusively pumping when BF didn't work for us...that definitely made me a freak, I mean, formula is just as good right?







: And DS is intact...ewww gross







:


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## MillingNome (Nov 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kidzaplenty*
Where I live it is more like this:

*Breastfeeding: Everyone tries it. Few people do it.

*Co-sleeping: Almost no one does it.

*Vaxing: 100 percent done.

*Babywearing. Just me.

*Daycare: Most all the children I know are in daycare.

*Pre-school: The place to send your child as soon as they are old enough.

*CIO: Most do it. And Making baby stick to a schedule is VERY important.

*Circ: Majority do it.

*Discipline: Spanking is done, some, but most don't, not out of conviction but just because they don't discipline at all.

*TV: Hey, kids can watch as much TV as they can cram into the day!

*Character Clothing. Everyone's Doing It!

*Toys: Anything and everything that they can get their hands on. Many seem so greedy.

*Food: What ever is the cheapest or most convenient.

Ditto for the most part. Alot of parents here use very heavy handed methods of disciple. And if you don't yell at your kids, well let's just say you are thought LESS of, like you don't care. Food is the worst. I really hate that about living in a poor nieghborhood. YOu can find every sort of fast food joint


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## dantesmama (May 14, 2006)

I live outside of Buffalo, NY and my community is very, very mainstream . . .
*Breastfeeding - Uncommon. I've never seen someone I don't know NIP, and bottles are absolutely everywhere.
*Cosleeping - Not really sure on this one. Not common, but I think most people who do it don't talk about it.
*Vaxing - "Who on earth wouldn't vaccinate their children?!?"
*Babywearing - Other than LLL/API, I've seen it twice. I get a LOT of funny looks and people tend to think it's a new thing. Strollers, like bottles, are omnipresent.
*Daycare - There are actually quite a few SAHMs in my area.
*CIO - It's just assumed that's what you do with babies.
*Circ - see above.
*Discipline - Parents yell at and hit their children. Growing up, I heard my next-door neighbor swearing at her toddlers constantly (this woman actually called her two-year-old the c-word). It really seems like people don't enjoy being with their children.
*TV - Whenever we take late-night walks around the neighborhood, we see TVs on in almost every house. That's what people do - they watch TV.
*Character clothing - Ugh, it's everywhere. Disney, Looney Tunes, you name it. People bought so much Winnie the Pooh for DS and it all went to Goodwill.
*Toys - Junk.
*Food - Fast food reigns around here. My local supermarket actually has a "natural" line, but they've recently cut way back on the amount of natural and organic foods they carry (especially produce). They actually don't sell tofu anymore! WTF? It's TOFU!!! There is a local health-food chain, though, just not very close to where I live.


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## Nora'sMama (Apr 8, 2005)

Someday Mom, my extended family are in the Bible Belt, and I actually know that mainstream far better than the mainstream here where I live. So I will answer the questions for where my relatives live in Louisiana, which will explain why I feel quite uncomfortable when I am there:

Breastfeeding - some try, many don't, very rare to BF to a year. My aunt BF my cousin to 16 months and that is considered HIGHLY unusual and a little strange.

Co-sleeping - definitely frowned-upon. My whole family were convinced I would roll over on DD. They were seriously worried and brought it up kind of a lot. I couldn't convince them it was safe.







:

Vaxing - 100% and they would think I was absolutely nuts to question it. Questioning anything (government, religion) is generally frowned-upon in NE Lousiana (unless the Democrats are in power or the religion you're talking about is something other than Christianity...in those cases, question away!







)

Babywearing - unheard-of, never even saw a Bjorn there. They thought my sling was very exotic and kind of funny. My aunt was really concerned about my baby's safety while in the sling and kept trying to get me to take her out.

Daycare - Plenty of SAHMs or moms who work part-time. It's a poor area so people take jobs when they can get them, and most people live near extended family, so that takes care of childcare. There are daycare centers, but it's not a 'nanny' type of area.

Pre-school - the well-off kids go, but not universally. There aren't a lot of good pre-schools available.

CIO - I'd bet almost everyone uses CIO. It's rough being a kid in the poorer, rural areas of the Bible Belt. Most parenting is not very gentle, starting in babyhood.









Circ - probably 100% or close to it.

Discipline - HARSH. Hitting children is the norm, even whipping them with switches or belts. You can talk about such things in mixed company and you will not get shocked looks except from the strange person visiting from California.







Luckily in my family the current generation of parents have mostly gone for a much gentler style than their parents. I do have one cousin who started hitting his kids when they were only babies.







But the others use time-outs much more than hitting (although I think everyone spanks at least occasionally). Children are brought up to be "seen and not heard", to say "yes ma'am/sir", to obey. Obedience is considered a very key virtue in a child. When kids are acting up they are told that they are acting "ugly". "Sass" is not tolerated. Kids do, indeed, seem to have much better manners in Louisiana than they do where I live...but they learn them in a pretty harsh way.

TV - never been to a house in the area where my extended family lives where the TV wasn't on. Kids watch enormous amounts of TV and videos as a general rule.

Character clothing - rampant. It's a depressed area with few stores so most poorer people's clothes come from the thrift store or Wal-Mart. More prosperous people shop at the mall...there is a slice of society who dress their children in very nostalgic, retro clothes, like kids were dressed in the 30's - big hair bows for girls, saddle shoes for boys, etc. Think how Justice Roberts' kids were dressed when he was sworn in. These people would definitely not allow character clothes. But that's only the wealthy people. Other wealthy people dress their kids very preppy, and would also not do the character thing. It's definitely a sign of being "low class".

Toys - electronic four-wheelers, etc., are very popular. Toys tend to be plastic and very gender-segregated. Not a lot of Legos and "learning" toys. But it's a class thing - the wealthier kids have LeapFrogs.

Food - it's common to give kids nothing but junk from a VERY young age. Typical Southern food is unhealthy enough but many people put soda in the bottle, etc., and give their toddlers true junk food all day long.







It's very hard to watch my cousin constantly giving her obese preschool boys soda, candy, cookies, and "fruit snacks". Constantly. They are hardly ever NOT eating. This is common but not universal. Food is a big part of the culture. Vegetarianism is considered extremely strange and suspect.

See why I don't live there?







Much as I love my close-knit extended family, and miss them terribly, I would be a pariah and I don't want DD growing up in that kind of culture. But the good thing about it is that people do lots of things with their families; it's a much less atomized and individualistic culture and also more homogeneous, for better or for worse.

Also, a lot of these norms are changing, and a couple of my cousins, while not crunchy, have radically improved their parenting from the past generation. One of my cousins also homeschools and does a fantastic job.









I'm missing the family reunion down there right now and I'm sad...


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## JayGee (Oct 5, 2002)

Interesting thread... I live in Southwestern Illinois, and the majority of people who live in my town are associated in some way with the Air Force base here.

*Breastfeeding: I don't know anyone who didn't at least try it in the hospital, but most are on supplementary bottles in the first month and fully bottlefed by 6 months.

*Co-sleeping: I have no idea. Most people I know have cribs/nurseries, but I don't know if they are used or not.

*Vaxing: 100%

*Babywearing. Just me, and the woman I saw with her babe in a wrap at the library last week!

*Daycare: Most of the moms are SAHMs, but there are some in daycare. If parents are dual-military, the base CDC is used.

*Pre-school: Everyone I know sends their kids to preschool.

*CIO: Very common

*Circ: I don't know, but assume most boys here are circed

*Discipline: Spanking and Dobson-type discipline are common

*TV: Lots and lots of TV watching!

*Character Clothing: Common

*Toys: Lots of plastic, battery-operated, etc.

*Food: The nearest Whole Foods is 45 minutes away. Local produce is at the Farmer's Market. Lots of chicken nuggets, hot dogs and trips to McDonald's.


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## Jennifer3141 (Mar 7, 2004)

It's so hard for me to answer this because our town is rather economically divided. The haves REALLY have and the have nots are REALLY poor and ignorant.

So for us (the "haves" I suppose:

*Breastfeeding: I don't know anyone who didn't at least try it in the hospital, but most are on supplementary bottles in the first month and fully bottlefed by 6 months, except for my LLL friends or a rare doctor or doctor wife who is staunchly pro BF.

*Co-sleeping: I don't know yet.

*Vaxing: 100%

*Babywearing: You can tell the haves from the have nots by the brands/styles of carriers but there are a lot of them here. The haves also have very expensive strollers for jogging the trails.

*Daycare: Most of the moms are SAHMs, but there are some in daycare. The haves put their children in the very expensive and exclusive preschool in [reparation for kindergarten at the same school.

*Pre-school: See above.

*CIO: This is a last resort for my mom friends who are just fried.

*Circ: This is changing for the haves quite a bit. Circing is now not the norm among the haves here - no one wants surgery!

*Discipline: The haves tend not to discipline in public. The have nots will get violent in public.

*TV: Educational only or a small bit of "fun" TV but the haves ensure their kids are getting outdoor air and exercise.

*Character Clothing: You can tell a have not by the character clothing or wrong brand.

*Toys: A mix of all sorts.

*Food: The haves get the farmers market and a couple of organic health stores. The have nots buy their groceries at Walmart.


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## key_issue (Apr 29, 2006)

Germany is not my native country so a few things are just educated guesses.

Corporal punishment has been outlawed a few years ago. This ban was accompanied by massive campaigns which obviously worked. I have only seen one woman grabbing her child roughly and threaten him with a "smack" in all my time here. And that woman was admonished by a bystander.

Circ: Not done. Except for religious reasons (mostly Muslim). And medical reasons. But doctors normally advise to wait a few years.

I'm sure there are Germans who CIO but it is not a concept here. There are a few babies in the neighborhood and there obviously is no CIO. I personally could never understand how people can stand to it anyway. I can't even sleep when the cat is talking. How anyone would be able to sleep through the a baby crying is beyond me.

There's less stuff to watch on TV here because there are not so many stations. TV hasn't yet become the campfire here that it is in the US.

Food: Easy to get whatever you want.

The school system is different so I can't say too much about daycare.

Toys: Playmobil is popular. Lego, Barbies, dolls, stuff like that.

Generally, kids in Germany seem to hang out more. There are always kids playing in the yard unsupervised. They kinda have their own kid-world.

All in all, I can't complain.

Cloth diapers are coming back in fashion.

Breastfeeding seems to be widespread.


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## witchbaby (Apr 17, 2003)

i live in a mid-sized city (denver). most of my perceptions are based on having worked at an upscale children's clothing store in an area surrounded by every economic class. i also have a 2.5 year old but still don't have many parent friends and most parents i know are through lll.

*Breastfeeding: typically, there may be an attempt, but it is quickly given up so mom can have time to herself or leave the child with a nanny.

*Co-sleeping: virtually every child i've met has a well-appointed nursery. the only co-sleepers i know are through lll.

*Vaxing: straight across the board done with no research. the husband-type was telling some friends (our only friends with a child) about the problems with the varicella vaccine and the father was agast. the mother waved it off and said she'd already had that given to their daughter because the doctor said to.

*Babywearing: again, almost completely reserved for the mothers i've met through lll. i still get giddy when i see strangers doing it because it's so rare (anecdote: i was wearing my son in a moby at the airport when i passed a mother wearing her daughter in a mei tai. we both got ridiculous grins on our faces). most babies are carried around in a bucket and older children are exclusively in strollers, usually very very nice ones.

*Daycare: i'm not entirely sure. most of the customers of our store were wealthy, so they had nannies, generally.

*Pre-school: don't know.

*CIO: pretty typical. "they'll never learn to go to sleep by themselves otherwise!"

*Circ: fairly routinely done.

*Discipline: lots of threatening.

*TV: most places, on 24/7. i never knew there were so many children's channels now!







:

*Character Clothing: pretty normal, not really regarded as different from other clothes.

*Toys: the more, the better. and the more expensive! our friend's daughter has two entire rooms FILLED with toys, most making noise and flashing. gives me sensory overload.

*Food: i've seen enough red koolaid in bottles and sippy cups to last my whole life.


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## Herausgeber (Apr 29, 2006)

These are fascinating. I wonder, does anybody have any stats on how breastfeeding correlates with other factor, such as income (mom's, not just household), education, and support at the workplace.

I particularly find it intriguing that nearly all the moms I know with well-paid career-type jobs nurse exclusively while on leave, then pump and and night nurse for at least a year, often longer. At my workplace, in particular, there is a lot of support for BFing/pumping. One mom got a pass to just start working from home when she ran into supply problems while pumping. This crowd is older, and just about every stereotype of ambitious, affluent workaholic you can come up with, and yet, they are seriously dedicated nursers. In contrast, the younger, less-educated, lower-income women in my family of origin and my sister's friends, rarely do it. They think it is "gross" and too much hassle, whether they WOH at home or not. Even in my FOO, the only other bfing mom I know is a cousin who also went to college.


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## Mama Poot (Jun 12, 2006)

Country town usa here. Breaks down like this:

Breastfeeding- Maybe 40-50% at birth, lucky to get 20% at 6mo, a year and beyond and you probably belong to some kind of underground cult









co-sleeping: Lots do it, but dont talk about it.

vaxing: everyone and the docs are nasty if you dont

babywearing: I've seen ONE other mom using a Maya wrap at wal mart. I think its just her and me.

daycare: BIG daycare crowd, low income area, lots of single parents. A church down the street was signing people up for FREE daycare and free preschool









CIO: everyone- even my crunchy chiropractor. sigh.

circ: big jewish population in city 30min north, rates are high

Discipline: lots of yelling and screaming. People who live behind us are always yelling at their kids. Its really sad ( and really annoying )

TV: everyone. We're the weirdos who dont have cable or a "HD" tv









Clothing: not sure, dont pay attention to things like this

Toys: everything and anything. new, used, who cares its a toy

Food: Giant Eagle and Walmart, organic store 30min north, GE has their own organic line and a very nice organic section. We try to get as much as we can afford. I dont think many follow our lead. Our cart always has fresh foods, people in line have hot dogs and pop


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## ashleyhaugh (Jun 23, 2005)

im at an army base in germany, i work at a daycare on post, and i have no kids yet

*Breastfeeding: from what ive seen, quite alot of people try it, but alot of the female soldiers quit when they go back to work at 6 weeks. most of the kids in my room(infants) are supplemented with formula at least once or twice, and nobody at the daycare really breast feeds for very long.... out of 18 kids ages 6 weeks to 18 months, only 2 still get ebm sent in for them-1 is 5 months, and hers are half and half formula bottles and bm bottles, the other little boy is 7 months, and he rarely gets formula, it seems only when mom isnt able to pump enough he'll have a formula bottle too....they're both on solids too though i would assume that the SAHM's would at least go a little longer than what i see at the center b/c they dont have to worry about pumping

*Co-sleeping:alot of parents do it, but they seem ashamed when talking about it "yeah,he sleeps with me, i know i should put him in a crib but......"

*Vaxing: from what ive seen everyone does it

*Babywearing:there are quite a few snugli's/bjorn's seen around, and i see an occasional sling too

*Daycare: because we're in germany, theres not alot of child care options off post, and we only have 2 centers on post, care is restricted to families with 2 working parents, or single parents, and theres not alot of job options here, so most people dont do day care- plus it would be hard to pay for care on one army salary if the other parent isnt working, we dont make that much, lol... alot of parents will bring their kids in for hourly care occasionally, and there is a part day preschool and a part day toddler program with no working requirements

*CIO: most people do this in some form or another, but i havent come across any "let them cry for hours" typed

*Circ: this is about half and half- i dont know if its because were in europe, or what, but we have alot of intact boys

*Discipline: most spank, but usually as a last resort. there are alot of time outs and stuff, but we do have our fair share of those who scream at their kids in public

*TV: tons of tv- most kids have a tv/dvd player in their room, and starting at about 3, the boys at least, start getting every game system known to man

*Character Clothing: everybody does it

*Toys: mostly plastic talking character stuff, but theres some decent toys in every house ive been too

*Food: seems like mostly junk, but obviously someone is buying organics because the commissary is always out of the organic milk, lol i had to special order some..... i did speak to a worker though, and the organic is becoming very popular, everytime i go there is a new organic something there, so thats great









--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## tash11 (Mar 12, 2006)

ooooo... this is intresting. I have actually lived in three diffrent 'sub cultures' since I got pregnant. two diffrent cities/states. but in the larger city there were two groups I saw. one was more traditinal mainstream, bottles, cribs, etc. the other was an ap group I was in. in the small town (where I am now) is is also more traditinal mainstream. I will go into the two mainstream ones. I am also going to refrence the actual people I know/neighbors. not the entire area since (especilly in the city) there are a lot of variences in the many diffrent groups so I will only talk about the ones I am in.

big city mainstream: most of the people I know there had kids young, useually unplanned, or havent had kids yet, middle class or so. most are smart, just dont loook into things sometimes. lots of working parents.

small town/rual military mainstream: strollers, bottles. etc. dont know many people here, but I have an idea....

*Breastfeeding: 'whats that? havent actually heard this, but thats the way it feels. there were 4 of us pregnant last year (inc me). 2 didnt even try to bf. one tried and got bad advice/little support and quit quickly. and then there is me. supplementing (bfar) my 6 month old. solids are started very early (2-4 months)
seems like noone tries. feels like bottles are the 'cool' way to go. but I know it does happen. but even then bf babies get bottles of water or juice. solids seem to be introduced early. oh, and there are two LLLs, they are both an hour away from my house.

*Co-sleeping: most seem to start off with a newborn in a bassinet in thier room. but quickly move the baby to another room (if they have the space). one person I know does move the baby to her bed when the baby cries in the morning if she wants to sleep in.
dont know. prolly lots of "babys room" type stuff

*Vaxing: "well of course" "thats a choice?" (I was actually told that I HAD to vax.









*Babywearing. "that will make them clingy" "thats werid" "its easier to carry her" 'but I have a perfectly good bucket to leave her in'
"I have one of those pack thingys, we used it once last summer" "neat, where did you get that?" so it seems like people know about it, and think its ok, they just dont do it...

*Daycare: noone seems to be able to afford it. grandma will watch kids if needed. or parents switch off.
doesnt seem as nessasary. mostly because there are a lot of s/wahms here. when it is needed it comes with the activity. "when you rsvp tell us how many kids/ages you have so we can sceudal enough caretakers for them"

*Pre-school: most dont seem to want to spend the money, but most kids are also too young to go yet.
I dont know.

*CIO: prevalent. very much an attitude of "doesnt need a diaper, just ate, oh well"
I dont know. seems common.

*Circ: most have girls. although it seems uncommon to circ due to little involvement of docs in promoting it (yeah!







)
I dont know.

*Discipline: most kids are still too young to have any kind of disipline. its mostly just 'dont chew on that' at this point.
I dont know really, but I hear that some people use 'stress positions' which are kinda like uncomfortable time outs. like standing holding something (lightweight) above the head for a period of time.

*TV: 18 month old will automatically turn on the tv if it is turned off. its a constant thing. cheap babysitter.
I dont know. possibly filter content. but I cant say for sure.

*Character Clothing. common "cute". but can be expensive so some dont get it for that reason.
again, I dont really know for sure, but its not uncommon.

*Toys: whatever. older kid has princess and my little pony, and things like that. sometimes it seems hard to find stuff that isnt charecter.
again, dont know for sure. I won a little stuffed ball the other day in a block party raffle, and it has fantastic four all over it, so I think its just normal here.

*Food: I have seen kids have chips and pop for lunch. There are sevral stores that sell natural/organic food. really even stores that dont specilize in it have some. but the people I know prefer cheap and easy over (what I consiter) good.
seems a lot of moms know how to cook. but it feels like no one understands the word 'vegitarian'. There is one very small natural food store. but they are rather overpriced (major markup). oh, and it takes me 45min to an hour to get there. there is a lot of fresh produce, especilly this time of year, since there are a lot of farmers around. it feels to me like there is a lot of 'home cookin' and pizza going on.


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## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

I'm in Iowa

*Breastfeeding: Some try, few stick with it. Many don't even try

*Co-sleeping: Almost no one does it.

*Vaxing: 100 percent done.

*Babywearing. Just me and my other AP friend

*Daycare: Most all the children I know are in daycare or at least with a sitter

*Pre-school: Few do this, but mostly cost is an issue

*CIO: Most do it. And Making baby stick to a schedule is VERY important.

*Circ: I've never met someone who DIDN'T in my whole life

*Discipline: Know very few who don't spank, lots of yelling in public, lots of shaming and threatening. See very few people practicing anything close to gentle

*TV: Hey, kids can watch as much TV as they can cram into the day!

*Character Clothing. Everyone's Doing It!

*Toys: Anything and everything that they can get their hands on. Many seem so greedy.

*Food: What ever is the cheapest or most convenient.

(Thanks Kidz saved me from typing a lot! LOL)


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## 2Sweeties1Angel (Jan 30, 2006)

Breastfeeding: I'm always suprised to see a BF baby around here.

Co-sleeping: It's considered a dirty little secret, but it seems like almost everyone does it at least partially.

Vaxing: 99.5% done.

Babywearing: DH and I seem to be the only toddler wearers. I've seen a few other babywearers at the store on rare occasions.

Daycare: Most all the children I know are in daycare or at least with a sitter

Pre-school: We have free preschool through the school district and Montessori. Most kids go to one or the other.

CIO: Everyone seems to do it









Circ: I live in the Bible Belt. It's rare to find an uncut little boy.

Discipline: Most people seem to be yellers with their hands permanently fixed in the spanking position. Spare the rod and all that, I guess.

TV: I've never met anyone who didn't own a tv.

Character Clothing. Everyone's Doing It!

Toys: Anything and everything that they can get their hands on. Many seem so greedy.

Food: We have about 10 fast food restaurants on less than a mile long stretch of road. And it's a small town of less than 7,000 people.


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## Leatherette (Mar 4, 2003)

*Breastfeeding: Almost everyone tries it. Most do it for about a year.

*Co-sleeping: Everyone who nurses seems to do it, at least at first. Generally by 6 months, I think most kids are out of the parents' bed.

*Vaxing: I think most vax to some extent, but there is a lot of delaying and some omitting going on.

*Babywearing. Lots of it for up to 6 months, then jog strollers seem to be the vehicle of choice. I got lots of positive comments when wearing my daughter in a sling for 2 years, but that is not too common around here.

*Daycare: Many moms are home for the first month up to a year, then it's mostly me and nannies at the parks. Until next month, when I go back to work......

*Pre-school: Everybody goes, even the kids with nannies and SAHPs. Montessori is big.

*CIO: I think that 50 % CIO, but there is a lot of hand-wringing about it.

*Circ: No one really talks about it, it seems. Judging from what I have seen, 75% do, 25% don't.

*Discipline: Very GD. Often permissive.

*TV: Young kids are restricted in terms of TV and movie watching.

*Character Clothing. Not too much.

*Toys: Mixed. You'll see educational toys lined up next to piles of the Barbie/Princess/Disney crap.

*Food: Whole Foods makes a lot of money here! We also have a lot of farmer's markets and such. No one has time to cook during the week, though, so plenty of takeout and prepared food from the deli.

*Cloth diapers - many get a service for the first few months, then switch to disposables. Many positive comments and adulation if you CD longer.


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## pookel (May 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boongirl*
But, I consider that none of this is mainstream. If it shows up in Parents or Parenting, it is pretty much mainstream, imo.

This is kinda OT, but ... I see a lot of Parenting bashing here, but aside from the commercialism, they don't advocate much that I object to. They definitely lean toward GD (a typical article I saw recently was on how to explain to your relatives that you don't spank) and support bfing and cosleeeping (not so far as to say "everyone should do it," but I think it's fair to say they're in the camp of "good for you if you want to").


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## RosieTook (Sep 4, 2004)

I live on the west coast of Canada.









*Breastfeeding: Most try it and nurse for a few months. We have a year of leave, so alot of mothers nurse for 6 month ish...the hospital prettty much assumes you'll be nursing.

*Co-sleeping: Not sure on this, there is a crunchy culture here, as well as not so classy...it's a wide range. So maybe 50 50.

*Vaxing: 85 percent probably, but they didn't give me a hard time about not vaxing, so it's been done here.

*Babywearing. Quite a few...maybe only 5-10% of the population, but I see them often enough.









*Daycare: I have no idea...there are a few sahm in this area though, but also quite a few unemployed and happy. :mad

*Pre-school: No clue.

*CIO: I'm sure it's done. Not sure how much though, there are some pretty aware parents around.

*Circ: 50 50 I think. You have to make an appointment to have it done, it' not offered at the hospital.

*Discipline: Some spank, lots yell, lots of time outs and shaming. Ugh. Bring on the gd'ers

*TV: quite a bit around here, and video games, and loud icky music.

*Character Clothing. You see it, but it isn't all over the place.

*Toys: A little bit of both. But alot of girl/boy toys.

*Food: Lot of people eat well, but just the other day I saw a one year old ish, maybe 15 months with a baby bottle of iced tea. Not the first time I've seen that either.

There's alot of sposie use, pretty much everyone, but anyone who has seen my cloth diapers has really liked them. I know a mom here who ec's.







There is a really cool baby store that sells good stuff...they only have Kusies, but at least it's cloth.


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## mama naturale (Aug 6, 2006)

We live in Australia. This suburb is working class.

*Breastfeeding: 50/50 I think. It is considered best, then weird once babe is 6mths.

*Co-sleeping: This is seen as a no no! We felt guilty for the first year and didn't mention it. Though I get the impression more would co sleep if it was more acceptable.

*Vaxing: It is the done thing. Not many question it. Ppl think I am silly cos I have chosen not to vax my youngest.

*Babywearing: I see a lot use baby slings. we don't use a sling but hubby and I both carry our youngest around as do many others.

*Daycare: Very common. Ppl are known to use it for a day a week if not working also.

*Pre-school: Its expensive but worth it. Probably 70% send kids to local kinder at age 4.

*CIO: I am assuming this refers to control crying? It is widely accepted and even encouraged.

*Circ: This is frowned upon as unnecessary in Australia - I know it to very rare here

*Discipline: Aggressive and disrespectful ways imo.

*TV: Ppl seem to live for it - I don't get it as nothing is ever on!

*Character Clothing: That is all you see!

*Toys: Stereotyped generally.

*Food: Junk and cola - kids eat sugar all day long in this area.

*Nappies: disposables are the norm. I just discovered a whole new world just recently myself. Ppl just don't know.


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## Abbyloos Mommy (May 19, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nora'sMama*
Someday Mom, my extended family are in the Bible Belt, and I actually know that mainstream far better than the mainstream here where I live. So I will answer the questions for where my relatives live in Louisiana, which will explain why I feel quite uncomfortable when I am there:

Breastfeeding - some try, many don't, very rare to BF to a year. My aunt BF my cousin to 16 months and that is considered HIGHLY unusual and a little strange.

Co-sleeping - definitely frowned-upon. My whole family were convinced I would roll over on DD. They were seriously worried and brought it up kind of a lot. I couldn't convince them it was safe.







:

Vaxing - 100% and they would think I was absolutely nuts to question it. Questioning anything (government, religion) is generally frowned-upon in NE Lousiana (unless the Democrats are in power or the religion you're talking about is something other than Christianity...in those cases, question away!







)

Babywearing - unheard-of, never even saw a Bjorn there. They thought my sling was very exotic and kind of funny. My aunt was really concerned about my baby's safety while in the sling and kept trying to get me to take her out.

Daycare - Plenty of SAHMs or moms who work part-time. It's a poor area so people take jobs when they can get them, and most people live near extended family, so that takes care of childcare. There are daycare centers, but it's not a 'nanny' type of area.

Pre-school - the well-off kids go, but not universally. There aren't a lot of good pre-schools available.

CIO - I'd bet almost everyone uses CIO. It's rough being a kid in the poorer, rural areas of the Bible Belt. Most parenting is not very gentle, starting in babyhood.









Circ - probably 100% or close to it.

Discipline - HARSH. Hitting children is the norm, even whipping them with switches or belts. You can talk about such things in mixed company and you will not get shocked looks except from the strange person visiting from California.







Luckily in my family the current generation of parents have mostly gone for a much gentler style than their parents. I do have one cousin who started hitting his kids when they were only babies.







But the others use time-outs much more than hitting (although I think everyone spanks at least occasionally). Children are brought up to be "seen and not heard", to say "yes ma'am/sir", to obey. Obedience is considered a very key virtue in a child. When kids are acting up they are told that they are acting "ugly". "Sass" is not tolerated. Kids do, indeed, seem to have much better manners in Louisiana than they do where I live...but they learn them in a pretty harsh way.

TV - never been to a house in the area where my extended family lives where the TV wasn't on. Kids watch enormous amounts of TV and videos as a general rule.

Character clothing - rampant. It's a depressed area with few stores so most poorer people's clothes come from the thrift store or Wal-Mart. More prosperous people shop at the mall...there is a slice of society who dress their children in very nostalgic, retro clothes, like kids were dressed in the 30's - big hair bows for girls, saddle shoes for boys, etc. Think how Justice Roberts' kids were dressed when he was sworn in. These people would definitely not allow character clothes. But that's only the wealthy people. Other wealthy people dress their kids very preppy, and would also not do the character thing. It's definitely a sign of being "low class".

Toys - electronic four-wheelers, etc., are very popular. Toys tend to be plastic and very gender-segregated. Not a lot of Legos and "learning" toys. But it's a class thing - the wealthier kids have LeapFrogs.

Food - it's common to give kids nothing but junk from a VERY young age. Typical Southern food is unhealthy enough but many people put soda in the bottle, etc., and give their toddlers true junk food all day long.







It's very hard to watch my cousin constantly giving her obese preschool boys soda, candy, cookies, and "fruit snacks". Constantly. They are hardly ever NOT eating. This is common but not universal. Food is a big part of the culture. Vegetarianism is considered extremely strange and suspect.

See why I don't live there?







Much as I love my close-knit extended family, and miss them terribly, I would be a pariah and I don't want DD growing up in that kind of culture. But the good thing about it is that people do lots of things with their families; it's a much less atomized and individualistic culture and also more homogeneous, for better or for worse.

Also, a lot of these norms are changing, and a couple of my cousins, while not crunchy, have radically improved their parenting from the past generation. One of my cousins also homeschools and does a fantastic job.
 








I'm missing the family reunion down there right now and I'm sad...









I live in Southeast Louisiana, and it's pretty much the same.


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## mata (Apr 20, 2006)

I live in a small university town. The biggest employer (dh works for them) brings in people from major US cities and all over the world, so we have a diverse,progressive community within the town itself-which is a little more conservative and rural.

Breastfeeding: All moms I know do it or have done it. NIP is the norm.

*Co-sleeping: We do it, and I know of people who have done it with an infant. I do not, however, think it's common with older children, as we do.

*Vaxing: Most people I know vax on a delayed schedule, selectively.

*Babywearing-lots of slinged babies, ergo carriers seem to be most popular.

*Daycare: Most mothers stay at home. Especially with the wives from my dh's company-we relocate here and there's really no work for the spouses. I would say the majority of local mothers also SAH. I don't know what type of daycares are available.

*Pre-school: most people send their children to preschool after age 3. We didn't with our first daughter, but my second goes for a couple of hours a week.

*CIO: The moms I know do not, have no idea about others.

*Circ: as far as I know circing is the standard.

*Discipline: I would say parents from our "group" tend to be more GD inclined. Have seen many parents with poor communication skills on playgrounds and at the pool-yelling, belittling, shaming, etc.

*TV: Most people I know don't let their children watch it excessively.

*Character Clothing. Yeah, I would say it's also looked at as being "low class.
"

*Toys: we have an independently owned toy store that's wonderful-with unique, enriching toys. They do story hours and craft times-very popular. In our circle, people prefer to support this store than to go to Target or Walmart.

*Food: we have Trader Joe's, Clark's, a farmer's market, plus we get eggs from the ranch, citrus at the grove, and have our own avocado tree. The only thing we're lacking is good health food restaurants.


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## jkpmomtoboys (Jun 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maya44*
Some of the threads here got me to thinking about what people veiw as "mainstream" depends so much on where they live.

Where I live, an upper middle class suburb of a big city with a nearby University where many people work the mainstream on the following issues is:

*Breastfeeding: Almost everyone tries it. I'd say 75 precent do it for a full year. Few people do it after a year.

*Co-sleeping: Almost no one does it by making a decision to do it. I'd say a good 1/4 end up doing it but don't really talk about it.

*Vaxing: 100 percent done. Have never heard of anyone who resists though there is MUCH knowledge about issue out there (many scientists in these midsts.) Also many doctors here.

*Babywearing. Done by maybe 20 percent. Babies are seldom heard crying in a stroller though. Moms here do pick up their kids and hold them, for the most part.

*Daycare: Very little outside of the home (nanny). Most women are SAH moms who do have "babysitters' help out 1 to 5 days per week. Babysitter used mostly to stay with kids while napping or stay with younger ones' while mom is out with older kids.

*Pre-school: Only one child in any of my dd's kindergarten classes came in without first going to preschoo. BUT this means TRUE "preschool" not some form of day care. No more than 2 hours 2 to 5 days per week. Most are "developmental" Almost no one interested in their children learning anything specific at this age (big feeling that there will be pleanty of time for that later since most expect kids here will go on to not just college but some form of post graduate degree

*CIO: Proabably done by about 60-70 percent of moms. Two of the biggest ped's in town trained under one of the big "sleep doctors".

*Circ: This is a heavily Jewish area. Every single person I know who has done it, has done it for religious reasons. (ETA...I know one person, who is not Jewish but works for a big health public policy iniative and did it becasue she truly believs it is best. She got a Jewish Mohel (Person trained in ritual Jewish circumcission) to do it because she felt they were the best at it (its all they do...a full time job) and because she feels that are very proactive about pain relief.

*Discipline: Spanking just "not done." It is considered "low class". So is yelling at your child in public. Majority uses some form of "time out" but a substantial number also just GD (Not TCS or CL though)

*TV: Education is EXTREMELY important to the parents here. Most people restrict both the amount and content of television watching. No one I know of is TV free though.

*Character Clothing. Again considered "low class" A shirt from Disney World might be worn as very casual clothes. But you dont' see much of this.

*Toys: Again character stuff just not considered very high class. Two very nice local toy stores do most of the business in town. Sell NO character stuff, though not NFL stuff by any means.
*Food: Natural Food stores do brisk business. Most parents resist buying the junkiest of the junk (trans-fats etc...). Mothers pride themselves on cooking healthy meals.

This sounds almost exactly like where we live, though I might just be describing my friends.







Thank goodness; I don't know what I'd do anywhere else in the country.... Except we do have a higher and higher proportion of people not circ'ing.

Completely agree with the characterizations of the character clothing and toys, though I do know people who have some. Esp. Star Wars, which has crept into our house through ds's friends...


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## Potty Diva (Jun 18, 2003)

I'm the oddball where I live (I'm not native of this area).

Most:

*spank as the first course of discipline
*formula feed and teach children that breasts are sexual and therefore PRIVATE (I've met two moms who have breastfed and all others have formula fed- one woman refused to share her boobs with her child thought they were for her husband only)
*don't know what a sling is
*let children of all ages CIO, includes infants
*believe to much loving can spoil a baby, but don't think twice about indulging children with cheap plastic toys
*live at McDonald's or Burger King
*can't understand why our county has a high teenage pregnancy rate, yet don't mind 14 yr olds dating 19 yr olds and feel fine about young girls listening to music, watch shows that promote degradation of women
*are miffed by high and increasing drop out rate, but then flaunt how they didn't graduate from high school/college and are doing just fine. School is secondary in importance. Getting a "real" job is number one.
* many think homebirth is illegal in this state, but it isn't.
*TV is a great babysitter
*50/50 on SAHMS and WOHMS
*Vaxxing is natural and common place. I was the only one in our center who had an exemption
*All laws are created by God, heathens must die (although I have seen ONE Darwin fish on a bumber stick, last year)
*the only preschools we have in our county are church sponsored. Kailey didn't go to preschool yet learned everything she needs to know for kindergarten from...US

Quote:

*Discipline: Most middle-class people don't but otherwise pretty common.
Do most then punish as apposed to discipline? Could you clarify, I'm a little confused. Thanks.


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## dolphinkisser (Dec 26, 2003)

Curious....many here have a petpeeve with the kinds of clothes kids wear and comment that wearing character clothes is seen as 'low class'







. How can you tell these people are looked upon as 'low class"? ...do people actually comment and say "Ugh...this kid is wearing a spiderman shirt...how low class." I definitely can understand CIO, gd , baby wearing, non-vaxing....but clothes?....huh? Talking about the kinds of clothes kids wear seems kind of petty to me. ....and IF people are noticing and commenting on the clothes kids wear....well...that seems kind of low class to me.








Anyway...sorry had to get that in....carry on


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## shayinme (Jan 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dolphinkisser*
Curious....many here have a petpeeve with the kinds of clothes kids wear and comment that wearing character clothes is seen as 'low class'







. How can you tell these people are looked upon as 'low class"? ...do people actually comment and say "Ugh...this kid is wearing a spiderman shirt...how low class." I definitely can understand CIO, gd , baby wearing, non-vaxing....but clothes?....huh? Talking about the kinds of clothes kids wear seems kind of petty to me. ....and IF people are noticing and commenting on the clothes kids wear....well...that seems kind of low class to me.








Anyway...sorry had to get that in....carry on









I was thinking the same thing. I am not big on character clothing as folks call it (wearing Tweedy or Mickey Mouse has never appealed to me and by extension not what I would buy for my kids). However calling it low class just seems wrong to me but that's just me.

Shay


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## Destinye (Aug 27, 2003)

I just moved to an area where I feel out of place because I am NOT tandem nursing at the library lapsit!! Not that DD would mind sharing.

Seems most people do extended nursing, baby-wear and consciously co-sleep.

Not sure on vaxing as I don't discuss it, even where I was which was quite holistic more people seemed to vax and I felt uncomfortable saying I don't. However a good number did not vax and used some holistic treatments but would use Tylenol and Antibiotics if needed (which I would but have not had to but my threshold to use them is higher but thats because also homeopathy has worked up to now!) I would say 50:50 vaxed but not sure where I am at now.

But yikes DD has character clothing!!!!


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## pookel (May 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boongirl*
Compared to Mothering magazine, Parents and Parenting are very different. They feature lots of ads for plastic toys, bouncy seats and other baby devices, bottles, etc. The articles are very different. They rarely have articles on homeschooling or not circumcizing or breastfeeding until toddlerhood and beyond or cosleeping or anything that Mothering features a lot. They are just very different. Not bad, but different.

I know they're different, I have a subscription to Parenting.

What I don't get is I've seen people talking about how awful Parenting is and how it makes them mad and advocates everything mainstream, etc., etc. ... I mean, OK, sure, it's not Mothering. It has lots of ads for bottles. (I pretty much ignore the ads, personally. I'm talking about the actual magazine content.) But it's not unusual to read articles in Parenting that mention nursing toddlers. They often have articles about learning how to breastfeed and what to do about common breastfeeding problems. A recent front-page article on "is spanking OK?" went over all the pro-spanking arguments and concluded "no, it's not OK." I have seen advice columns that talk about sleep issues where the columnist says in an aside, "I cuddle all my kids to sleep ..." or "my kids actually still sleep with us ..."

I don't see what is so evil about all this. Kinda mainstream, maybe - but not the stereotypical "mainstream" people talk about on MDC that consists of "yell and hit your kid, let them cry all night, feed them formula from day 1, and buy them lots of cheap plastic toys."


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## Destinye (Aug 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pookel*
I don't see what is so evil about all this. Kinda mainstream, maybe - but not the stereotypical "mainstream" people talk about on MDC that consists of "yell and hit your kid, let them cry all night, feed them formula from day 1, and buy them lots of cheap plastic toys."

Plus its good a more mainstream magazine at least is mentioning things like nursing, baby-wearing and not spanking and putting the idea out there more. Most mainstream mothers I meet are not like that at all in any case!


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## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Interesting thread.







Here's my mainstream (fairly pricey areas in large, East Coast cities):

Breastfeeding: 3-6 month is the norm, often with supplementation; I know 2 moms who BF for over a year--incidentally, these are the only two SAHMs I know; every other mom I know works (law, business, etc.)

*Co-sleeping: Nope.

*Vaxing: Done by pretty much everyone.

*Babywearing. Some--I see lots of Baby Bjorns, some slings and wraps. Today I saw a woman with a Moby Wrap AND a Bugaboo Stroller.









*Daycare: Basically not done. It's nanny central in this neck of the woods.

*Pre-school: Everyone--people tend to start their kids in activity classes (swimming, art, music) at around 2 years old.

*CIO: I do know a few people who "sleep-trained" their babies, but I don't think this is universal.

*Circ: Close to 100%.

*Discipline: No one spanks. As someone said, it's considered "low class." I think GD is more the norm, although people wouldn't call it that. Some time-out kinda stuff going on.

*TV: Some, but more often than not "educational" TV.

*Character Clothing. Nope. Considered very tacky.

*Toys: Combination of traditional toys (wooden blocks, etc.), character toys, lots of "educational" toys from places like Babies R Us (Lamaze, Baby Einstein, etc.) People definitely try to combat strict "gendering" of toys.

*Food: People eat pretty well relative to the SAD. I do see lots of jarred baby foods and pre-packed teething bicuits, etc., but there's also a lot of organics (dairy, produce, Whole Foods snacks, etc.). Just hung with a friend whose 2 yo ate 3-bean stew, a fish and spinach soup, and some organic crackers during the day. Fresh meat and cheese, rather than packaged stuff is the norm. Fast food very rarely, if at all. A lot of the kids I know go to upscale restaurants regularly.


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## shayinme (Jan 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boongirl*
Compared to Mothering magazine, Parents and Parenting are very different. They feature lots of ads for plastic toys, bouncy seats and other baby devices, bottles, etc. The articles are very different. They rarely have articles on homeschooling or not circumcizing or breastfeeding until toddlerhood and beyond or cosleeping or anything that Mothering features a lot. They are just very different. Not bad, but different.









: Its funny that you mention this, I just bought a copy of Parenting yesterday and while it wasn't a bad magazine it was different. Definitely less substantial than Mothering. I also was not too enamoured of the ads.

Shay


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## Potty Diva (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:

*Discipline: No one spanks. As someone said, it's considered "low class." I think GD is more the norm, although people wouldn't call it that. Some time-out kinda stuff going on.
I'm wondering if there is another name we can use to call people who spank, perhaps uneducated?

As spanking is not found solely in lower class households. I know some well-to-do families who spank, and some poor folks who know better.


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## eminer (Jan 21, 2003)

Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but I believe that when people say that certain clothes or behaviors are considered "low class", they mean literally low class (not e.g. what people mean when they say that a rude person has "no class"), and they are reporting on the social patterns they see around them, _not_ speaking from their own point of view. There are many ways in which people convey that clothing has class meaning. You can often pick out what socioeconomic group people belong to, within a community, by the way they dress. "High class" people often have contempt for the possessions and customs of "low class" people -- but without much awareness that their thinking is following a social class pattern. It is subtle: "Ugh, I would never buy that for my child" flows into, "I don't like my child to play with Johnny, because he is a bad influence" or "his parents have different values" (which coincidentally most of the other parents in the trailor park happen to share). In another thread here, we touched upon the issue of suburban kids wanting to look "like they're from the hood" (that's the urban equivalent of the trailor park). While of course there are always exceptions, spanking does, in general, attach to social patterns -- and that comes out in people's feelings and belief about it.


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## Potty Diva (Jun 18, 2003)

That's just odd. I'm personally glad that I don't know people who would say such things (and by know I mean people who are in my circle of friends. Sounds rather elitist to me.


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## Aura_Kitten (Aug 13, 2002)

i live in a rural, predominately caucasian, very low income region ~ our mainstreams:

*Breastfeeding: pretty much not done, not even attempted usually

*Co-sleeping: again, not really done.

*Vaxing: everyone vaccinates here, except one person i know, because it's a requirement for schools and just about everyone is in some kind of public school

*Babywearing: more parents are doing it ~ mostly younger parents. (oddly, i've seen lots of carried babies holding bottles of formula







)

*Daycare: just about all the parents around here use daycare, even some of the ones who don't work

*Pre-school: it's considered very, very strange ~ by parents, teachers and doctors ~ if a child around here hasn't gone to preschool before starting kindegarten. one elementary school teacher didn't even want to admit a child to her class who hadn't attended preschool.

*CIO: it's expected

*Circ: again, pretty much everyone does it.

*Discipline: i don't know anyone around here who doesn't spank, except for the home visitor we've had (and she can't advocate it, by law







)

*TV: most kids around here have a TV in their room; that's the main pasttime...

*Character Clothing:







i honestly don't know.







i don't see a lot of kids wearing character clothing... but my own kids loved their character shirts.







i really don't know. for clothing in general, most kids just seem to wear whatever is popular at the local Wal*Mart. (right now that means that almost all the kids i see seem to be in uniforms of pink, brown and pseudo-camo.)

*Toys: cheap and plastic are the norm. lots of people get stuff from yard sales around here. the most used "toys" are video game consoles.

*Food: lots of fast food, lots of frozen and packaged stuff. the local school is sponsored by pretty much every major food corporation (including having Cheetoh days







: ), and organic / natural foods are not readily available. the ones that ARE available cost so much, only the really upper-class people can afford them. i've been considered extremely odd for feeding my kids whole grain bread (one parent was astonished to see my child eating the crusts on the sandwich







) and i've been completely shunned before for not allowing my son to have a can of soda right before dinner.


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eminer*
Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but I believe that when people say that certain clothes or behaviors are considered "low class", they mean literally low class (not e.g. what people mean when they say that a rude person has "no class"), and they are reporting on the social patterns they see around them, _not_ speaking from their own point of view. There are many ways in which people convey that clothing has class meaning. You can often pick out what socioeconomic group people belong to, within a community, by the way they dress. "High class" people often have contempt for the possessions and customs of "low class" people -- but without much awareness that their thinking is following a social class pattern. It is subtle: "Ugh, I would never buy that for my child" flows into, "I don't like my child to play with Johnny, because he is a bad influence" or "his parents have different values" (which coincidentally most of the other parents in the trailor park happen to share). In another thread here, we touched upon the issue of suburban kids wanting to look "like they're from the hood" (that's the urban equivalent of the trailor park). While of course there are always exceptions, spanking does, in general, attach to social patterns -- and that comes out in people's feelings and belief about it.

Well what I think people around here are thinking (no one says "low class" unless we discuss it) is that they want their kids to look a certain way. Here it is sort of hip and cute.

A typical "cute" girls outfit would be like the one's I saw today at my best friend's daughter 7 y.o. b-day party: Leggings (tight to the lower calf in black, white or gray, blue jean mini skirt and lets say a tye-dye top) or a pair of pink capris with a pink and white flowered peasant top, or a pair of khaki walking shorts with pink flowers and a pink top with khaki flowers.

Very matched. Very pulled together. With matching sandals or crocs with jibbitz in them.

And , yes the two and three year olds are dressed the same way.

Character clothing would be viewed as ruining this look. As someone else said "tacky". It's not really expressed but what I gather from when we have talked about it directly is that wearing clothes with characters all over it is done by people who don't know better. I think that people would sort of view wearing garage sale or thrift shop clothes as understandable and not look down on it at all. But I think the thinking would be "if you can afford to buy your child new clothes that aren't super cheap why would you want them to walk around with some tacky character of their clothes."

As for spanking I think it is a thought here in the *urban* midwest, that it is only done by people in the lower classes here or by people in the South. It's a generalization/sterotype but that's what people I know think.


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## Mommy Piadosa (Jul 4, 2005)

I live in a afluent mostly "white" suburb of LA (maybe about 30% Hispanic)- just 10 minutes from the Reagan Library- so that'll tell you the political leanings of this crowd.

*Breastfeeding- I think a great majority try it- many make it a year- very few beyond, but I'm always getting positive comments nursing my toddler.

*Co-sleeping: Many of the nursing moms do this very early on- but most so some form of CIO by about 6 months

*Vaxing: I have a skewed sense of this one, the only people who I talk to about this are my AP group- (over 100 members in our county) so I'm not sure.

*Babywearing. Some--I see lots of Baby Bjorns, once in a blue moon I see some slings and wraps. I'm leading a local babywearing NINO group and only have 30 members.

*Daycare: I would say 50-50. Half the mamas stay home the other half would be professionals using daycare.

*Pre-school: Everyone--people tend to start their kids in activity classes (swimming, art, music) at around 2 years old.

*CIO:Seems the norm at about 6 months.

*Circ: In the hispanic population almost 0- in the "white" I would guess 70-80%

*Discipline: Mostly "time outs" some spank out of "Biblical mandate" *gag*

*TV: Some, but more often than not "educational" TV.

*Character Clothing: Tons- especially the Disney Store stuff- I'm surprized it's considered low class in some areas cause it is real pricey!!!

*Toys: Combination of traditional toys (wooden blocks, etc.), character toys, lots of "educational" toys from places like Babies R Us (Lamaze, Baby Einstein, etc.) People definitely try to combat strict "gendering" of toys.

*Food: Whole Foods and Trader Joes are almost always jam packed!

This is fun and interesting!


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## eminer (Jan 21, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Freebird_Mama*
That's just odd. I'm personally glad that I don't know people who would say such things (and by know I mean people who are in my circle of friends. Sounds rather elitist to me.

Good for you! Where I grew up, there was a tremendous amount of unconscious or semi-conscious racism and classism. I realized this gradually over time, and in retrospect, I don't think I knew very many people who were not affected by it.







This was in upstate NY, which isn't where people typically think to find racism and classism, as far as I know.


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

*Breastfeeding: Only the few upper middle class attempt it. A bottle is always introduced early as well. Most supplement with formula. Many babies are weaned by 6 months. All by one year. I am a super freak for EPing and not using any formula, especially for having an almost 10 month old baby. I only saw one mom bf, and it was among other nurses at a Christmas party. (work related)
*Co-sleeping: Almost no one does it intentionally. Some do it when they get desparate. That is the only time.

*Vaxing: 100 percent done. The only time it isn't done, is when mom doesn't get around to it. No one intentionally does not vax.

*Babywearing. Just me. And I sometimes use a stroller depending on the circumstances. Many use the travel systems. I have never seen a baby not picked up when crying in one of them. All use buckets.

*Daycare: Most moms stay at home. It is a super poor area, too. There aren't any places other than the school or hospital that pay more than $10/hr. Most moms who work only work part time, and use relatives to watch their kids. There is only one day care, and most of the children that attend are children of the nurses and teachers.

*Pre-school: Many go 3 days a week starting at 3 years old, most go to the public school preschool at 4 years old, since it is free for those with low incomes.

*CIO: Not popular for young babies, but popular for older babies who do not sleep well at night.

*Circ: Majority do it since the majority of the mothers receive MA and it is covered. Not done if insurance does not cover it.

*Discipline: Spanking is done, but I do not think belts and such are popular like they were 20-30 years ago.

*TV: What else is there to do with your kids? It is the baby sitter. 4 month olds watch tv here. (not mine!)

*Character Clothing. Kids wear it, but mine will not. I will not promote disney as I find disney very annoying. I do not like the look of any character clothing. DD will not be introduced to stuff like that by me or her grandparents. They have been warned. Hopefully she doesn't find out about that stuff until she is in school!

*Toys: The louder and brighter the better! (my house is full of them thanks to her grandparents!)

*Food: There is only one grocery store, and it is the size of a convienent store. So no organic stuff. Mostly junk, although most people are not obese here. There is no public transportation or taxi service, so those that can not purchase a car walk everywhere. There are no fast food restaurants here in our little area. There is a family restaurant, a Chineese restaruant, and a few bars that serve take out food, thats it. If you want to go out to eat elsewhere, its atleast a 30 minute drive.


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## Jennisee (Nov 15, 2004)

I don't think people are saying, "I consider character clothes, etc. to be low class," but rather, "In my socioeconomic level in my community, character clothes, etc. are considered to be low class." Changing it to something like "uneducated" may make it no longer a correct statement about their community.

For example, in my socioeconomic level in my community, people consider anything liberal or AP to be the work of evil hippie socialists. By making that statement, I am not stating that it is my value system, but rather that it is the value system of the community in which I live.


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## dolphinkisser (Dec 26, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennisee*
I don't think people are saying, "I consider character clothes, etc. to be low class," but rather, "In my socioeconomic level in my community, character clothes, etc. are considered to be low class." Changing it to something like "uneducated" may make it no longer a correct statement about their community.

For example, in my socioeconomic level in my community, people consider anything liberal or AP to be the work of evil hippie socialists. By making that statement, I am not stating that it is my value system, but rather that it is the value system of the community in which I live.

I hope you are right Jennisee ...because some of these posts are scaring me.


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## Kidzaplenty (Jun 17, 2006)

Perhaps I have been reading them wrong. But for me, when I read "low class" it just means exactly that....Commonly worn by people in what I consider to be low class economically (ie poverty class or low income class).

Maybe I was reading it wrong. But I never read it as some put down, just a catagory of the income class that they were most commonly seen in.


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## Potty Diva (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:

Perhaps I have been reading them wrong. But for me, when I read "low class" it just means exactly that....Commonly worn by people in what I consider to be low class economically (ie poverty class or low income class).
This is called stereotyping. Vulgar, IMO.


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## alisonsvw (Jan 30, 2006)

Lets see
in my area, just 10 mins. outside boston we are a mix of the extremly wealthy and extremly poor.
breastfeeding. many do it for a few months, ive never saw a baby nursed past 6months here (i swear)except for my children and my good friends baby AND I work in a childrens portrait studio...1 in maybe 25 mothers tells me shes nursing, I make a point to ask









co-sleeping- many do it, not by choice, probibly lack of space.

Cloth Diapers, Unheard of, except me and the aforementioned friend.

Vacs. Several do several dont ( i worked pt in the health store, met many non vaxing parents and got great info)

Babywearing- I see lots of bjorns and the like, lets see more wraps and mai tais people!

Spanking, I see LOTS of this(hence the portrait studio)

CIO often. in fact my ped has been "enlightining" me about this since day 1 and I say okay call me when your coming to listen to the screaming baby, cause I couldent bear it....

character clothes, funny this is brought up, I think its trashy, but if its your thing, whatever prob the majority owns some....


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## Kidzaplenty (Jun 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Freebird_Mama*

Quote:

Perhaps I have been reading them wrong. But for me, when I read "low class" it just means exactly that....Commonly worn by people in what I consider to be low class economically (ie poverty class or low income class).
This is called stereotyping. Vulgar, IMO.

Just pointing out, I never called anyone or anything "low class" just stating my percieved definition of "low class". And for that matter, my family is generally in this "low economic class".


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## Potty Diva (Jun 18, 2003)

Why in the world would you consider character clothing "trashy"? The Disney Store carries character clothing, are they consider trashy?

Personally I don't like character clothing and it's for some of the reasons mentioned. For some reason character clothing has come to equal poor taste, being poor, and living in a trailer park. How do these things happen?!

Logically I know this isn't true. My wealthy aunt buys her grandchildren character outfits often and loves them. UGH!


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## Herausgeber (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Freebird_Mama*
That's just odd. I'm personally glad that I don't know people who would say such things (and by know I mean people who are in my circle of friends. Sounds rather elitist to me.

People don't necessarily say it. It's part of the vibe. The point is that many upper-class people do the AP type things, not so much because they actively are aware of what AP is and strive to practice it, but because things like yelling/spanking/sending your kid to a "snot factory" daycare center (not my term. ugh.)/etc. are "low class."

Character clothing and lots of TV watching are definitely considered "tacky" where I live.

Edited to add: I fail to see how pointing out that certain behaviors have class connotations makes anyone classist themselves. If anything, the most classist people I know are the ones who claim that there is no such thing as class discrimination. Go figure.

I grew up poor/working class, and now I am upper-middle class. I would be lying if I said I didn't notice quite stark differences in the parenting styles of the community where I grew up (in NW Louisiana) and the one in which I live now.


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## Potty Diva (Jun 18, 2003)

Jenny~ I wasn't implying that you did hon.

Hera~ You're right, it often times ISN'T said, but you do get the vibe.

Odd how some consider childcare centers low class, yet often times doctors and lawyers bring their kids to them.


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## Kidzaplenty (Jun 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Freebird_Mama*
Jenny~ I wasn't implying that you did hon.

No offense taken!


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## Jennisee (Nov 15, 2004)

Freebird Mama, you seem to be angry with the posters in this thread, and I'm not sure why. There are many threads in this forum that reference the "mainstream culture," yet people often disagree about what mainstream actually is, and I think this thread has highlighted why that is--because this is a large, diverse society and what is mainstream in one area may not be mainstream in another.

Some people are saying that _in their community_, certain traits are associated with certain economic classes. To me, that sounds more like an observation than a stereotype. Where _you_ live, character clothing may not be associated with a poorer class, but in some areas, they are. Is this icky? Yes, of course it is. But that doesn't mean that a person who observes it necessarily agrees with it.

I live in a pretty poor rural area, and in _my own socioeconomic class_, character clothes are rampant. Why? Because there are only two places here to buy new clothes--at the mall and Wal-Mart. The poorer class tends to shop at Wal-Mart, where character clothes predominate. The more affluent class tends to shop at the mall, where character clothing is not as commoon. You will notice that I am saying this about _my own socioeconomic class_, not as an insult, but as simply a fact. (Me personally, I prefer garage sales.







) Where others live, there may be many factors which do not result in such an observation.


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Freebird_Mama*
Why in the world would you consider character clothing "trashy"? The Disney Store carries character clothing, are they consider trashy?

Personally I don't like character clothing and it's for some of the reasons mentioned. For some reason character clothing has come to equal poor taste, being poor, and living in a trailer park. How do these things happen?!

Logically I know this isn't true. My wealthy aunt buys her grandchildren character outfits often and loves them. UGH!

\

This is why its considered "low class" in my community:

Around here people want their kids to look a certain way.

Very Hip. Very pulled together. A typical outfit for little girls right now might be a pair of leggings, skirt and tye dye tank top. Character clothing, inclduing the somewhat pricier Disney Store stuff would be viewed as ruining the "look" parents here are going for... as lacking in good taste.

Disney Store stuff does not qualify as "hip" or "cool" its well, yes, considered 'tacky'

It's not really expressed but what I gather from when we have talked about it directly is that they view wearing clothes with characters all over it as something that is done by people who don't know better, who don't have the "class" to understand what's stylish. (THIS IS NOT MY VIEW I AM EXPRESSING HERE)

I think that people would sort of view wearing garage sale or thrift shop clothes as understandable and not look down on it at all. But I think the thinking would be "if you can afford to buy your child new clothes that aren't super cheap why would you want them to walk around with some tacky character on their clothes."


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## Aura_Kitten (Aug 13, 2002)

my dd loves her dora and blues clues clothes. i never realized she was looking "trashy" to people.







and i had been planning on buying her the new dora outfit i saw the other day, she would love it.









ETA ~ i don't consider their character clothes to be covered with "some tacky character." these are characters that my children like, and identify with in some way, or enjoy sharing an imaginary world with. i can't believe there are people in the world making judgements about something as lame as this. =/


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Aura_Kitten*
my dd loves her dora and blues clues clothes. i never realized she was looking "trashy" to people.







and i had been planning on buying her the new dora outfit i saw the other day, she would love it.









I really would not pay attention to people who think this way. It's their problem, not yours. If your dd loves it, go for it!


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## Herausgeber (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Freebird_Mama*
Jenny~ I wasn't implying that you did hon.

Hera~ You're right, it often times ISN'T said, but you do get the vibe.

Odd how some consider childcare centers low class, yet often times doctors and lawyers bring their kids to them.

Ah, but it depends on the type and quality of child-care centers! And I am sure it is regional as well. Affluent people around here tend to have nannies for their child/ren, and that is considered ideal. Now that I am visibly pregnant, people often ask me if I have found a nanny yet, as if that were a given. However, another common option is one of the small, extremely expensive child-care centers that are marketed for their educational benefits as much as anything else. They have very low child to caregiver ratios, and many of these centers are close to employment centers, making it easy for mothers to nurse on their breaks. Either of these options will easily set you back several thousand dollars per month, for one or two kids. The exclusive child-care center option only works if you have regular hours, which many affluent people in this area don't have.

For middle-class famile you'll see: nanny-share arrangements, in which multiple families share a single nanny and their kids are cared for in one of the families' home; less frou-frou, but still pretty good child-care centers; and liscensed in-home care. More SAHMs in this bracket, at least when the kids are very young.

At the bottom of the rung are the largest child-care centers, which have more kids overall, of varying ages and the maximum caregiver/child ratio legally possible. A lot of unlisenced in-home care, as well.

You also tend to see more extended family care the further down the socioeconomic scale you go.


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## Destinye (Aug 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Aura_Kitten*
my dd loves her dora and blues clues clothes. i never realized she was looking "trashy" to people.







and i had been planning on buying her the new dora outfit i saw the other day, she would love it.









ETA ~ i don't consider their character clothes to be covered with "some tacky character." these are characters that my children like, and identify with in some way, or enjoy sharing an imaginary world with. i can't believe there are people in the world making judgements about something as lame as this. =/

Really I would not worry either! There are a lot more important things to worry about in life than this!! Love the signature!


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## Brigianna (Mar 13, 2006)

I live in a suburban area in Georgia. I don't think most people here have heard of ap or nfl at all.

-Breastfeeding--usually for a few weeks, if at all. Almost never for a full year.

-Co-sleeping--more common, but not with infants for some reason.

-Vaxing--universally done, only fringe crazy hippie types would question it ("I'm vaxed and I'm fine")

-Babywearing--done some, usually not past early infancy. Snugglies are more popular than slings, which are seen as hippie-ish. But babies are usually seen in bucket carseats.

-Daycare--very common, even among those who don't need to work and don't enjoy their work, but "I could never stand to be home with him all day." But there are enough sahms that it isn't considered odd.

-Pre-school--fairly universal among those who do school. Homeschooling is more common here than some other places; hs'ers aren't usually met with shock. Private schools are common and fairly affordable for the middle-class.

-CIO--"you have to let them cry!" Most people don't cio young babies (though some do), but almost everyone does to older babies and toddlers, at least to some extent.

-Circ.--I don't know. I assume fairly common.

-Discipline--most people spank, and almost everyone uses various punishments, especially time-outs. Spanking is a slap on the butt, though, not Pearl-type stuff. I have witnessed legally abusive spanking in public several times and reported it, but I don't think it's widely culturally sanctioned.

-TV--primary form of entertainment. Kids watch adult stuff in addition to kids' shows. Not being familiar with "hot" shows is weird and fringe.

-Character clothing--almost no one sees an issue with it, or with any aspect of child marketing.

-Toys--lots and lots of toys, especially the plastic, batery-powered, noisemaking, character tie-in toys. Most parents (who insist that ap/gd kids are spoiled) will freely buy their kids any and all toys the kids ask or nag for. Very little attempt to educate about marketing, consumerism, etc.

-Food--some concern about nutrition, but little in the way of organic or natural foods.

Basically, most people consider nfl-type practices and concerns to be ridiculous and products of the hippie fringe. People do care about their kids, but they're adament about not giving any issue much thought or research beyond "this is what most people I know do/did." There's a firm strain of anti-intellectualism and anti-questioning of authority in the mainstream culture, and it is as manifest in child-rearing as in anything else.


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## Destinye (Aug 27, 2003)

This thread makes me really glad I live in the Pacific NW - what an eye-opener! Thanks for starting it, makes one think about things thats for sure.

ETA I am glad I live in an area where I can be myself and NFL is the norm, but things like character clothing and stuff does not bother me, nor does what type of sling someone wears - I proudly wear a hip-hammock because it works for me, and elitism of any kind DOES bother me....


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## swimswamswum (Oct 26, 2005)

This thread is really bothering me. I hate all of the references to something being "low class" or "trashy". Why is it okay to reference people with garbage? Geesh. We're talking about class here. Not everyone can afford to stay home with their kids and shop at Hannah and Whole Foods. It is a privilege.

These shouldn't be options for only some people, but they are. I can't believe the elitist things I am reading. I am all for NFL, but I don't think congratulating ourselves at the expense of people in our community who are not as blessed (with money, knowledge, support, or education) as us is productive or nice.


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## swimswamswum (Oct 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Freebird_Mama*
Why in the world would you consider character clothing "trashy"? The Disney Store carries character clothing, are they consider trashy?

Personally I don't like character clothing and it's for some of the reasons mentioned. For some reason character clothing has come to *equal poor taste, being poor, and living in a trailer park.* How do these things happen?!

Logically I know this isn't true. My wealthy aunt buys her grandchildren character outfits often and loves them. UGH!

There are also many awesome mamas on this site who live in trailer parks. There are lots and lots of mamas who are "poor". Watch your assumptions. They can be very hurtful and are usually wrong.


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## Herausgeber (Apr 29, 2006)

One interesting thing to me about the reports on the circ issue is that statistically the South is second only to the West in its rate of intact boys and men in this country. I wonder where the non-circ people are concentrated, or if it's just not talked about much, since people here are reporting that they think circ is mainstream in their Southern communities. I got nosy about this a while back and learned that most of the men in my quite conservative extended family (all in the deep south) are not circ'ed! (I wasn't brave enough to ask THEM about this, so I just asked their mothers.







)


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## Herausgeber (Apr 29, 2006)

Swimswamswum, I think you're misunderstanding what people mean by those descriptions. It's not whether they personally think these things about other people. It's a description of the mores in their communities. I.e. identifying other people's elitism and assumptions isn't the same as being elitist yourself.


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *swimswamswum*
This thread is really bothering me. I hate all of the references to something being "low class" or "trashy". Why is it okay to reference people with garbage? Geesh. We're talking about class here. Not everyone can afford to stay home with their kids and shop at Hannah and Whole Foods. It is a privilege.

These shouldn't be options for only some people, but they are. I can't believe the elitist things I am reading. I am all for NFL, but I don't think congratulating ourselves at the expense of people in our community who are not as blessed (with money, knowledge, support, or education) as us is productive or nice.

I am not sure what you mean. I have not really seen anything elistist here at all.

What is being discussed is "what is considered mainstream" in YOUR area. Many people assume what is "mainstream" in their area is "mainstream" everywhere.

The issue surfaces with "character" clothing. In some communities it is what the "mainsteam" wears. Many mama's here don't like it and some assume that not wearing it would be going outside the mainstream everywhere.

What this thread merely pointed out is that (to the suprise of some) in some places "character" clothing is NOT mainstream and that the reason it is not is that the "mainstream" in that community has an elitist attitude that such clothing is "tacky".

I think many here find this very interesting. No one here is saying that wearing character clothing IS "tacky" or "low class" but are making the OBSERVATION that the "mainstream" where they live view it as such.

This is like the fact that many posters have sadly said that spanking is considered a good thing by the "mainstream" where they live or mandated by the bible where they live. THIS does NOT mean that the poster reporting this fact is saying spanking is a good thing.

No one here is MAKING a value judgment, rather they are reporting on those judgments in their community.


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## swimswamswum (Oct 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Herausgeber*
Swimswamswum, I think you're misunderstanding what people mean by those descriptions. It's not whether they personally think these things about other people. It's a description of the mores in their communities. I.e. identifying other people's elitism and assumptions isn't the same as being elitist yourself.

Maybe, but a lot of what's been posted seems extremely naive and offensive.

I am sure my perspective is related to the fact that I just finished reading Bourdou's _Distinction_ which is all about class differences in asthetic appreciation for symbolic goods. He talks about how notions of legitamacy are set by the ruling class and that having a "pure gaze" relies on the existence of a naïve gaze.

If you have a whole lot of time, you should read it.









Saying someone wears character clothing because they don't know any better or that someone does something because he or she has poor taste relies on the asssumption that there is a correct way to do things. It seems paternalistic and self congratulatory to me.


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Sorry double post


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *swimswamswum*
Saying someone wears character clothing because they don't know any better or that someone does something because he or she has poor taste relies on the asssumption that there is a correct way to do things. It seems paternalistic and self congratulatory to me.

Again no one here is saying this.They are reporting "hey this is what the mainstream where I live thinks"

Why is reporting on the WRONGHEADED THINKING of the mainstream community "offensive"????

Do you think we should pretend something is other than what it is when we try to share with each other what ideas are prevelant in the communities in which we live?


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## swimswamswum (Oct 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maya44*
Again no one here is saying this.They are reporting "hey this is what the mainstream where I live thinks"

Why is reporting on the WRONGHEADED THINKING of the mainstream community "offensive"

I thought I explained myself. Others said the same thing earlier in the thread. I really don't have the time or the energy to go in to it.

I obviously agree with NFL and AP. I just think that referring to another person as "trashy" or saying that they don't know any better because they wear a certain type of clothing is offensive. The trailer park reference was also offensive. It takes a lot of support to be able to AP your child and follow NFL. That's all I'm getting at.


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## Aura_Kitten (Aug 13, 2002)

swimswamswum ~ thanks for the book recommendation.


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## Jennisee (Nov 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *swimswamswum*
I thought I explained myself. Others said the same thing earlier in the thread. I really don't have the time or the energy to go in to it.

I obviously agree with NFL and AP. I just think that referring to another person as "trashy" or saying that they don't know any better because they wear a certain type of clothing is offensive. The trailer park reference was also offensive. It takes a lot of support to be able to AP your child and follow NFL. That's all I'm getting at.

Again, no one here has referred to another person as trashy. It they had, that would indeed be offensive. But NO ONE is saying that. They are reporting on what the mainstream population in their area thinks is trashy.

I am really confused at the direction this thread is taking. In the area where I live, I know that certain characteristics about my family fit the "lower class" description. My husband sticks out from his coworkers because of some of his "lower class" ways. This is because we live in a poor, rural area, and he drives 30 minutes to work in the city. By reporting that, am I bashing myself?







:


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## ella roy (Aug 3, 2006)

woops!


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## ella roy (Aug 3, 2006)

I have really enjoyed this thread!

I live in the heart of the Ozarks. There's not a lot of cultural diversity here and most people are considered outsiders unless their grandparents were born here. If you do something differently than mom you're a liberal hippy tree hugger. We do have a lot of wonderful parents, but they are not mainstream.

Among the wealthier set:

*Breastfeeding: Almost no one does after they leave the hospital
*Co-sleeping: Almost no one does it and if you do, you don't tell
*Vaxing: 100%
*Babywearing. In twelve years I've seen three others and one was my sister..I think the two must have been from out of town. Babies are always in plastic buckets.
*Daycare: It's almost a status symbol to have your child in a daycare instead of with family or close friend
*Pre-school: Very common
*CIO: almost a religion
*Circ: really this is on the decline
*Discipline: I am shocked at the lack of discipline. There is a lot of yelling, but no discipline.
*TV: Yes, even in the car.
*Character Clothing. Yes
*Toys: The sky is the limit
*Food: Most don't eat with their children. Time is not spent on really preparing healthy meals.

Among the low-income group

*Breastfeeding: our numbers are really growing, but we have really worked on that
*Co-sleeping: not very common
*Vaxing: 100%
*Babywearing. plastic buckets.
*Daycare: lots of SHMs, many have in home daycares
*Pre-school: almost everyone
*CIO: many of the Drs here encourage it
*Circ: most
*Discipline: There is a lot of yelling and spanking. Around her they think the verse about spare the rod means that if you don't really spank, your kids will be spoiled
*TV: 24/7
*Character Clothing. Yes
*Toys: not expensive toys, but excessive
*Food: McDonalds, potato chips, Velveeta


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## swimswamswum (Oct 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennisee*
Again, no one here has referred to another person as trashy. It they had, that would indeed be offensive. But NO ONE is saying that. They are reporting on what the mainstream population in their area thinks is trashy.

I am really confused at the direction this thread is taking. In the area where I live, I know that certain characteristics about my family fit the "lower class" description. My husband sticks out from his coworkers because of some of his "lower class" ways. This is because we live in a poor, rural area, and he drives 30 minutes to work in the city. By reporting that, am I bashing myself?







:

I guess I'm a "buck stops here" kinda gal. I don't like the idea that anyone equates other humans with garbage so I don't use the term. I understand that it is in reference to what the community thinks, but I believe there are classist undertones to a lot of the discussion. Re-read some of the comments. I am bothered by them. Other posters were too and they made that known.

To answer your question, people don't always support their own interests. It's called hegemony. Look at our current political system.

I am giving this thread a peace out. I really didn't mean to de-rail it. I also understand fully that people were talking about the mainstream in their area. I just read into the phrasing and was bothered.


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## Silvercrest79 (Jan 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dolphinkisser*
_Curious....many here have a petpeeve with the kinds of clothes kids wear and comment that wearing character clothes is seen as 'low class'







. How can you tell these people are looked upon as 'low class"? ...do people actually comment and say "Ugh...this kid is wearing a spiderman shirt...how low class." I definitely can understand CIO, gd , baby wearing, non-vaxing....but clothes?....huh? Talking about the kinds of clothes kids wear seems kind of petty to me. ....and IF people are noticing and commenting on the clothes kids wear....well...that seems kind of low class to me.








Anyway...sorry had to get that in....carry on







_

_







: and
_

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shayinme*
I was thinking the same thing. I am not big on character clothing as folks call it (wearing Tweedy or Mickey Mouse has never appealed to me and by extension not what I would buy for my kids). However calling it low class just seems wrong to me but that's just me.

Shay









:

This thread is making my head spin.







:


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## ndunn (Mar 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RosieTook*
I live on the west coast of Canada.








*Circ: 50 50 I think. You have to make an appointment to have it done, it' not offered at the hospital.



Actually, I heard recently that our circ rate in BC is 7.5%, or something around that. I was plesantly surprised as I expect it to be higher.


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## Silvercrest79 (Jan 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RacheePoo*
...
*Daycare: Most women WOH. Many say they want to stay home and I believe them...our economy in this state is in the toilet right now. ...

Where in MI are you? I'm in MI too. As for the toilet thing...that would be a compliment. At least if something is in the toilet it has the chance of being useful again.


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## witchbaby (Apr 17, 2003)

i just want to add my two-cents on the "trashy" and "low class" comments.
i'm under the impression people are speaking of what their SOCIETY (the area they live in) thinks of character clothing, not neccessarily themselves.
i've seen both sides here. the average, middle to lower class person doesn't think too much about this in my area, but i know the wealthier parents (such as those who frequent the store i worked at) do. i know these wealthier parents often view any clothing that costs less than x-amount is "trashy" and belongs exclusively to the "low class."
i PERSONALLY do not hold this opinion (i'd have to hate myself, then, being both poor AND having a daughter with dora shoes, dora, elmo and hello kitty panties, and a desperate desire for anything and everything dora related), but this is the opinion i see a lot of local parents, whom i would consider part of the mainstream around here, holding.


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## Potty Diva (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennisee*
Freebird Mama, you seem to be angry with the posters in this thread, and I'm not sure why. There are many threads in this forum that reference the "mainstream culture," yet people often disagree about what mainstream actually is, and I think this thread has highlighted why that is--because this is a large, diverse society and what is mainstream in one area may not be mainstream in another.

Some people are saying that _in their community_, certain traits are associated with certain economic classes. To me, that sounds more like an observation than a stereotype. Where _you_ live, character clothing may not be associated with a poorer class, but in some areas, they are. Is this icky? Yes, of course it is. But that doesn't mean that a person who observes it necessarily agrees with it.

I live in a pretty poor rural area, and in _my own socioeconomic class_, character clothes are rampant. Why? Because there are only two places here to buy new clothes--at the mall and Wal-Mart. The poorer class tends to shop at Wal-Mart, where character clothes predominate. The more affluent class tends to shop at the mall, where character clothing is not as commoon. You will notice that I am saying this about _my own socioeconomic class_, not as an insult, but as simply a fact. (Me personally, I prefer garage sales.







) Where others live, there may be many factors which do not result in such an observation.

Yikes! Angry? LOL. I don't know any of you well enough to go that far







trust me no anger, perhaps frustration at my own misunderstanding of my OWN ideologies, but nothing more









And, I LOVE me some garage sales!


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## Potty Diva (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *swimswamswum*
I guess I'm a "buck stops here" kinda gal. I don't like the idea that anyone equates other humans with garbage so I don't use the term. I understand that it is in reference to what the community thinks, but I believe there are classist undertones to a lot of the discussion. Re-read some of the comments. I am bothered by them. Other posters were too and they made that known.

To answer your question, people don't always support their own interests. It's called hegemony. Look at our current political system.

I am giving this thread a peace out. I really didn't mean to de-rail it. I also understand fully that people were talking about the mainstream in their area. I just read into the phrasing and was bothered.

YOU UNDERSTAND!!!! Thank you mama! I just couldn't get my words right


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## cyndimo (Jul 20, 2005)

What a great thread~

I live near San Jose, CA and this is what I see in my upper-middle-class mostly white with some asian mom's group formed from a hospital new mom's support group - all the babies are around 1yo:

*Breastfeeding: Almost everyone tries it. 99% do it until 4-6mo. The 1 mom I know who stopped pumping at 10mo and stopped the night feeding at 11mo was considered a BF saint by the rest of the group. For the most part, the only moms who don't BF for the first few months have real issues and do have access to BF support. Most will wean from bottles and formula to sippy's and whole milk around 1yr.

*Co-sleeping: Most babes are in their own room by 2mo. One mom I know waited until 3mo because she "couldn't let go" and she feels like a total aberation.

*Vaxing: 100 percent done. But, deferring vax's for later is also fairly common.

*Babywearing. Most babes do spend a fair amount of time in the bucket and then in stroller. But, when we were able to get a good discount on ERGOs, there were many takers. I think most babywearing is done while doing housework.

*Daycare: There are about 50% SAHMs, who do not have any daycare, except occasional babysitters for the afternoon or evening out with DH. Of the working mom's about 75% use regular daycare, and the rest use some for of at-home care, either family members or nannies.

*Pre-school: We're too young to be dealing with this just yet









*CIO: VERY common suggestion for sleep problems.

*Circ: Most of the boys are circ'd, but nobody really looks askance at those who are not.

*Discipline: still pretty young for most of this - time will tell for this.

*TV: Very little boradcast TV viewing, but A LOT of Baby Einstein. People are starting to view Seaseme Street, etc - I expect most people to do some TV-plopping before 2yrs.

*Character Clothing. Some of this, but not too much.... I consider it "free marketing" and a little low-class so we avoid it in my home and I don't notice it much on the babes we spend time with.
Most of the SAHMs are starting to get used to going from 2 high incomes to "only" one - so they do a fair amount of strategic purchases at gymboree or babystyle and then fill in with stuff from Target or Old Navy.

*Food: Whole Foods is very popular, but most don't shop there. When they were doing jarred baby food, most did organic but also used conventional sometimes and often complained about how their kids were "addicted" to gerber puffs.

********************************
I often find myself neither here nor there...
I needed to FF my DS, so when he was an infant, and I was wondering about DHA/ARA in organic formulas, nobody could help IRL and here the attitude about all formula was "find it in a mainstream setting" - but in the mainstream, nobody was thinking about organic. Likewise, when he was 7mo and I needed to go to a soy formula, nobody could tell me if the toddler formula was OK - in the mainstream, non-organic soy was OK, but I wanted to avoid that...
For co-sleeping, we're trying to get our 1yo into his own room... way past the 2mo of most that I know, but not old enough to say "Mom, I think I'd like to try to sleep in my own room now, if you don't mind" in so many words. The advise here might be to consult mainstream sources of support, but those are all geared toward much younger children.
All the "mainstream" moms I know are worried about weaning their kids from bottles and pacifiers by 12-18mo... if I were BF, I wouldn't be targeting those ages for weaning, but how do I approach this from an AP perspective to do what's right for my DS?


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## Rivka5 (Jul 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Aura_Kitten*
*Babywearing: more parents are doing it ~ mostly younger parents. (oddly, i've seen lots of carried babies holding bottles of formula







)

What's odd about that?


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## Aura_Kitten (Aug 13, 2002)

Rivka ~ i just tend to link babywearing with breastfeeding.







it's strange for me to see a mother slinging a newborn, yet feeding with formula. i mean, it's great that they're bonding through babywearing... and a lot of the ones who wear their babies are SAHM's.... so... uhh.... ummm..... why use formula??

for most of the ones i've talked to, it's not for personal physiological reasons either (as in, CAN'T), but rather, a conscious decision (as in, "yuck, why would i want to bf?" and "isn't wearing my baby ENOUGH?")







... just seems strange.


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## Throkmorton (Jun 30, 2003)

I'll bet a lot of people wish they lived near me:

*Breastfeeding: It is assumed you are breastfeeding, and we have tons and tons of support. At prenatal classes, 2 years of nursing is advocated. I occasionally get a weird look for giving DD (2.5mos) a bottle and want to yell "I'm supplementing! I have a low supply! Really!"

*Co-sleeping: The nurses at the hospital totally demonized it, but I don't know anyone who doesn't co-sleep at least part time.

*Vaxing: My doctor doesn't vax. I feel that explains it all.

*Babywearing. Common. Oh, there are babies in buckets too, but most people I know have a carrier or two. Buckets are just for quick in-and-out chores

*Daycare: We have 1yr paid maternity leave, but after that most people go back to work at least part time.

*Pre-school: common-ish. Definitely not required. DS is in swimming lessons and a once-weekly play program offered by the city, and that seems to be the most common way to handle preschooler socialization

*CIO: Uncommon, but it does happen. Not until they are over a year, though

*Circ: 85% of baby boys in BC are uncirced.









*Discipline: time outs mostly. Spanking is low-class and mostly kept to the home.

*TV: Plenty. i know of noone TV-free. Most small kids watch the commercial-free Treehouse TV though.

*Character Clothing. I never really noticed. i guess it is there, but not really out there. Gap and Please Mum are popular instead.

*Food: The grocery stores carry health foods and organics, the farmer's market is rockin' busy and we have an organic vegetable delivery service.

I love my little town


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## Rivka5 (Jul 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Aura_Kitten*
Rivka ~ i just tend to link babywearing with breastfeeding.







it's strange for me to see a mother slinging a newborn, yet feeding with formula. i mean, it's great that they're bonding through babywearing... and a lot of the ones who wear their babies are SAHM's.... so... uhh.... ummm..... why use formula??

for most of the ones i've talked to, it's not for personal physiological reasons either (as in, CAN'T), but rather, a conscious decision (as in, "yuck, why would i want to bf?" and "isn't wearing my baby ENOUGH?")







... just seems strange.









Okay. I guess I'm a little sensitive to implications of, "if you can't breastfeed, there's no use even trying the rest of attachment parenting." Sometimes it seems like people put so much weight on the bonding power of breastfeeding that they just *expect* formula-feeders to prop the bottle, CIO, avoid physical contact, etc. But if that's not what you were thinking, that's cool.

I tried desperately hard to BF my daughter, and failed. "Why use formula?" So she wouldn't starve to death. But I wore her pretty much 24/7 for the first few months, and we slung her for every nap until she was 10 months old.


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## cyndimo (Jul 20, 2005)

Rivka -

Quote:

Okay. I guess I'm a little sensitive to implications of, "if you can't breastfeed, there's no use even trying the rest of attachment parenting."
I totally feel this way! Sometimes I feel that there are no shades of grey... there's the ideal and there's everything else... if you can't meet the ideal, then anything you do is equally harmful - so there's no difference between organic and highly processed formula and home-made formula; there's no difference between brands of disposables; there's no difference between ways to help a child learn healthy sleep attitudes in their own room. I am constantly seeking ways to do my best while doing what's best for my baby, my relationship with him and the planet!


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## Herausgeber (Apr 29, 2006)

If babywearing automatically equals breastfeeding, my DP should probably send that camo sling back, huh? Cuz that's baby's going to be very disappointed if she latches onto one of THOSE nipples.


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## Kidzaplenty (Jun 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Herausgeber*
If babywearing automatically equals breastfeeding, my DP should probably send that camo sling back, huh? Cuz that's baby's going to be very disappointed if she latches onto one of THOSE nipples.









I can already see my baby trying to latch onto DH!


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## Destinye (Aug 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kidzaplenty*







I can already see my baby trying to latch onto DH!

DD tried that once through his T-shirt (ouch!) and went through a phase lately of wanting Daddy's booby...we had to explain it did not have any milk in it!


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

I understand some of the trends behind the education and class differences, but I'm still a little surprised some experiences here. I live in a more middle class city neighborhood, but have several immediate family members living close by in wealthy neighborhoods filled with very educated people, one near a university and also close to a large Jewish populated suburb, like Maya's described area. From what I've seen (which is obviously more limited than actually living there) they breastfeed for a very short time (3-6 months), all get an epidural, use cry it out method fairly early, vax, and babywearing is not common. I see Hannah Anderson, Buggaboos, etc. But I see more luxury than educated decisions. My SIL is an ivy league grad who is quite into bucking the Hannah trend and going Old Navy, but she's all about microvaving the nuggets, allowing TV, and using strollers. Maybe the area just isn't as progressive as I thought.

Where I live, I keep my co-sleeping, non-circing, cloth-diapering, extended bfing stuff to myself. I've never seen a babywearer close by. I believe most cio and circ, but discipline is civilized imo. I've never seen spanking or abusive yelling or shaming. I don't have a lot of mama friends though.


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## slightly crunchy (Jul 7, 2003)

This is an interesting thread but I wouldn't know how to answer some of the questions. It seems like you could have people living in the same place give totally different answers--depending on who they know, income level, neighborhood, area of town.


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