# My son fell into the pool



## Tizzy (Mar 16, 2007)

So I need some advice on what to say/do in this situation.

I left my two sons with my MIL for a few hours last week. It was supposed to be for a full day but my plans changed and instead of canceling on her (because she was so excited to have them) I dropped them off and ran errands around the city. It was refreshing for me to do my own thing and I knew the boys would have fun since she is a wonderful grandma to them - spoils them, gives them tons of attention etc.

We specifically picked that day so she wouldn't have my niece and nephew - she babysits them a couple days every week. They are 8 and 6 and can't be left alone with my toddlers because they practically smother my kids - try to pick them up all the time, play way too rough, get right in their face, no concept of safety etc. So it's usually best that my MIL is only alone with two of them at a time because they are all a handful.

When I got back, DS1 tells me he fell into the pool. She elaborates and told me the situation: he was filling up a toy bucket and tipped into the pool. He's only two and a half and is not a good swimmer whatsoever. He was wearing water wings so he bobbed to the surface, looked really shocked but didn't cry and was more alarmed that his bucket was floating away.
She said she only looked away for a moment to help my nephew with something. My SIL had stopped by, the kids wanted to go swimming so she left her two with MIL as well. Precisely what I was trying to avoid.

Now I didn't really say anything at the time because I didn't know what to say! Maybe I *am* maturing







instead of blurting out the first thing that came to my mind which was - Oh My Gosh He Could Have Drowned, what were you thinking!!!

Now that I've been thinking about it, she doesn't have any CPR training which is worrisome to me. Their backyard is fenced, but the in-ground pool takes up the majority of it. The kids can't play on the deck because it gives them splinters. I guess after that incident she pulled the playpen outside to put DS2 into, not fun for him but much safer because he is more than willing to jump into the pool by himself too. But she still had to supervise 3 children who were in the pool.

Should I.....insist that no matter how much DS1 hates it, he should always wear a life jacket when he's in the backyard? It's uncomfortable and makes it difficult to play...
FWIW I have had one of those floating bathing suits on him but it just made him bob upright and wouldn't roll him onto his back.

Strongly suggest that she take some CPR/swimming safety training?

Insist that if I *do* leave the kids with her again, they just don't play in the backyard?

Never leave the kids with her again?

Or....?
What do you suggest??

I am really trying not to make a huge deal out of this but it's difficult when I imagine what could have happened.


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## chaoticzenmom (May 21, 2005)

I wouldn't leave them again. Pools are just as dangerous as guns in the house. It takes only minutes of silent drowning to forever lose your child. A 2yo cannot handle a life jacket...it makes them float, but in all kinds of weird angles that make them panic. My heavy 3yo can't float right in one yet.

I wouldn't let my child play at someones house if I knew they had loose guns, and it's the same with pools. Then, if you add more adults to the mix, kids are in even more danger because one thinks the other has the kids. Not worth it. You can let them go over there after they learn to be good swimmers.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

I think I'd go with the life jacket option. That way your son can continue to enjoy his visits to his grandmother and still be safe.


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## mysticmomma (Feb 8, 2005)

it sounds like he was fine with the water wings. I'm sure he learned a lot from that incident. I'd leave it alone. Or offer to get a little pool he can fill his bucket from for the back yard.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

I think I'd start with a conversation with your MIL where you talk about how concerned you are about the situation and ask her what she thinks. Does she understand your concern? Does she have any suggestions? Perhaps emphasize that you are concerned about how many children she was watching and asking why she didn't call you (given that you weren't doing something mandatory at the time)?

I would base my next move on what she says. If she doesn't "get it", then I would probably avoid unsupervised visits until your children are better swimmers. If she understands the issue and is willing to modify things, then I would try again.


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## Wild Lupine (Jul 22, 2009)

I'm torn between insisting on a life jacket (one of those wearable, coast-guard approved ones), or not going until the kids can swim well. A lot depends on your MIL and her reaction.

How safe is the rest of her house? Does she seem to keep a good eye on them? Does she understand how anything can happen in the blink of an eye with toddlers? If she's generally safe, and she seemed truly concerned, scared even, about what could have happened when he fell into the pool, then I'd be inclined to send them and insist on life jackets. If she thought it wasn't a big deal, or tends to overlook the need for safety in other areas, I wouldn't send them back until they were much older.


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## SunshineJ (Mar 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mysticmomma* 
it sounds like he was fine with the water wings. I'm sure he learned a lot from that incident. I'd leave it alone. Or offer to get a little pool he can fill his bucket from for the back yard.

This. This is the type of thing that could have just as easily happened if you were right there in the backyard with him - look away for a split second. It happens. It also sounds like your MIL was on top of things, not like she was in the house for a minute or left him unattended. Accidents happen and it sounds like that's all this was.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

From what you've posted, I'm questioning her judgement. Does she really understand what it means to care for toddlers and keep them safe? If I'm remembering you correctly, and not mixing you up with another MDCer, she's got a history of making bad judgement calls with your kids, and trouble saying "no" when asked to watch her other grandkids. (or is it somebody else with MIL issues and overly rambunctions 8 and 6yo neice/nephews?)

Did you specifically tell MIL to only watch your kids, and not take on any more kids while she was watching yours? Or did you just "assume" that she wouldn't have the extra kids that day?

If this is the first time she's done something like this (and you're not the MDCer who's posted about similar situations in the past), I'd give her another chance, with clear boundaries in place. Let her know she's not to be alone with any more kids than yours when she's babysitting (if SIL stops by with her kids, SIL needs to stay or take her kids with her.) Set up clear safety rules about being in the backyard with the pool open- not playing in the backyard is one option, making DS wear a safety vest at all times is another option. But it needs to be something you're comfortable with and that she's willing to enforce.

OTOH, if she's done stuff like this before, I'd stop letting her babysit. Continue letting the kids spend time with her- invite her to your home and go over to hers for visits, but only when one or both parents are visiting at the same time.

There are some very responsible teenagers available, probably in your neighborhood, who can watch your kids for a few hours while you go out and get some "me time"- without worrying about their safety!

ETA: Yeah, nothing happened when he fell in the pool and he did have the water wings on. But I'd still address the "you said you were watching just my two and then suddenly you were alone with 4 kids" issue.


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## rachelsmama (Jun 20, 2005)

Did you discuss your concerns about the other kids, and about the pool with your MIL before? If you didn't you really really need to, those are very valid concerns and you shouldn't ignore your instincts about things like that. If you did discuss them before, and she ignored them, that's an even bigger problem.

If you decide to go with the lifejackets in the backyard rule I think it's really really important to make sure she's putting them on correctly each time. If it's not put on right a kid can slip right out if they fall in the water.


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## just_lily (Feb 29, 2008)

I think as long as her reaction was appropriate I would let it go.

I would however (gently) recommend to her that she takes CPR and first aid. I think anyone that watches kids should have it, and definitely anyone with a pool should have it. Combine those two things and for me, it would be a necessity. Perhaps your SIL and you could share the cost of the course with your mom as a gift or something.


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## mysticmomma (Feb 8, 2005)

You could also get one of those CPR cheat sheets to post by the pool.


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

If the pool is your big concern, I think it is fine to ask that the pool/yard be off-limits for the visit when you are not there.

However, it does sound to me like she was supervising adequately and handled the situation well. My son is also 2.5, and recently fell in the pool (at our complex) when a friend and her dd were babysitting him. He was wearing his float vest (not life vest) and bobbed, but was still startled. They promptly fished him out, and he was fine. It didn't consider it a babysitting fail at all.

CPR training is a great idea for anyone, of course!


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## mamalisa (Sep 24, 2002)

One of the biggest rules while we were on vacation and around pools constantly was there was absolutely no leaning into the pool to touch the water, fill up buckets, ect. Dd didn't understand at all, but it was a hard and fast rule for her. She's top heavy, she tips too easy. I could picture it happening in my mind so easily.

I would talk to her, make sure she understands that the kids cannot be out of arms reach near the pool (how old are they?) EVER. If she's willing to follow that rule, then I would be ok with her watching them and playing near the pool as long as they wore life jackets.


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## ~Charlie's~Angel~ (Mar 17, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mysticmomma* 
it sounds like he was fine with the water wings. I'm sure he learned a lot from that incident. I'd leave it alone. Or offer to get a little pool he can fill his bucket from for the back yard.

This exactly. Cant make waves because its your mil, but seriously, my heart was in my throat reading your post!


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## Tizzy (Mar 16, 2007)

Thank you for all the advice!

She did seem concerned enough, (the only other difference of opinion involved car seat tether straps which we remedied by installing hooks in her van and insisting that we always install our kids car seats in for her) and she does tend to keep a pretty good eye on the kids, BUT it's a pool - toddlers can run quickly and really from my own experience, if I am not within arms reach of them *in that backyard*, it's not safe. I'm not an overly paranoid parent I swear! But whenever *I* am with them there, I find it a handful to keep just my own two children safe never mind properly supervise two others.

And yes, the water wings did make my son float up, but what if they had slipped off? They are not a safety device and they do not make a child who does not know how to swim or float, float properly with their head up. So it's a band aid solution. If he gasped when he fell in and inhaled water, the water wings would just bring him up for someone to pull him out - they wouldn't prevent him from drowning. Especially this summer with them both being mobile, I have made a point of putting life jackets on them when I am there and she seemed to follow suit - I didn't expect her to think water wings would be just as fine.

He did not learn anything from the incident actually, generally he's a quick learner but because he didn't get scared or hurt he seems to think it was fine and will more than likely try to do it again. He had a separate small pool in the yard which is what he was filling up with the bucket.

So, gathering from the advice here...

I will talk to her about it specifically in a non-confrontational way and tell her that I'm not comfortable with her watching all four alone if they are swimming. Indoor activities are fine, just not in the pool.
Whenever we go there, I will bring the boys own life jackets to make a statement that they are to be worn around the pool at all times. If that means that DS2 is only able to crawl instead of walk, that's fine - I'd rather he crawl than drown.
And for good measure, I'll ask if she's interested in taking an infant/child CPR course and if she would mind if I posted a safety poster by the pool "just in case".

Really, with how paranoid she is about my boys chewing on rocks, eating bugs, grass, dirt, climbing trees, playing hide n seek in the cornfield...she *has* to understand why the pool is a huge concern.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SunshineJ* 
This. This is the type of thing that could have just as easily happened if you were right there in the backyard with him - look away for a split second. It happens. It also sounds like your MIL was on top of things, not like she was in the house for a minute or left him unattended. Accidents happen and it sounds like that's all this was.

Yes.. this. She knew he fell in. I assume she helped him out. He was wearing floaties.

Kids fall in all the time. I'd be upset if she weren't outside.. in fact, I'd freak out if she sent him out alone. But, she was out there supervising.

I do think it's too hard for one person to carefully supervise four kids in a pool. It would have been nice if the sister in law would have stayed also.


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## Marylizah (Jun 17, 2005)

I'm going to opt for the "teach your kids to swim ASAP" option.

She's their grandmother, she's attentive, she probably wasn't thrilled to be left with 4 little ones at the same time, she did fine in the situation. But I would be nervous too about little ones regularly being at a house with a pool. If I were in your shoes I would make sure my kids knew how to swim.

The toddler swimming classes usually start with floating and water safety concepts so that if your children do fall into a pool they have good reflexes. I grew up in a hot area where many people had pools and we learned to swim quite young, for this very reason.


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

With no security gate or cover I would be really nervous leaving my kids with anyone who had a pool. My inlaws have a pool, but unless they are in it, the very secure cover is on at all times.

That is the angle I would take. I don't think that the incident necessarily means that she is incapable of watching the kids, but I do think that young children are not safe around unsecured pools.

I would also let her know that you would prefer that it just be your kids when she is watching them. If your SIL calls up, then she should say that now is not a good time.


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## greeny (Apr 27, 2007)

I think she showed very poor judgment in agreeing to watch two additional kids by a pool (for a total of 4!!!) when SIL showed up. If she were a certified lifeguard or at least CPR certified, that might be one thing. But not being trained in life-saving techniques, she should have opted to bring all the kids inside or asked SIL to stay or take her kids away.

I would never agree to supervise 4 kids at a pool. And I would be really upset if someone I trusted to watch my two kids decided to watch two more in such an environment.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greeny* 
I think she showed very poor judgment in agreeing to watch two additional kids by a pool (for a total of 4!!!) when SIL showed up. If she were a certified lifeguard or at least CPR certified, that might be one thing. But not being trained in life-saving techniques, she should have opted to bring all the kids inside or asked SIL to stay or take her kids away.

I would never agree to supervise 4 kids at a pool. And I would be really upset if someone I trusted to watch my two kids decided to watch two more in such an environment.









:

I wouldn't leave the kids alone with her again.


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## Amila (Apr 4, 2006)

I wouldn't leave my kids alone with anyone who had a pool. Period. I wouldn't even let anyone but myself or my husband take my kids to a public pool. But I am a control freak of sorts.


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## Carma (Feb 10, 2006)

I have also been very careful with pools. I would just join your kids when they are with her until they can swim well.
I can't imagine watching 4 kids at the pool. We were at the beach with our almost 2 and almost 4 year old. A few times DH when back to the hotel to get food etc., and I had to be very alert to watch 2 of them well.

Carma


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## Hey Mama! (Dec 27, 2003)

I would probably insist that my toddler wear a life jacket if he will be playing in her backyard, and get those early swim lessons asap. I think is is overkill to never leave the kids alone with her.


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## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

I would personally go over there with the kids and together with MIL, set some rules for the pool area (such as no one leans into the pool AT ALL EVER, for any reason...FEET FIRST ALWAYS) and some consequences for broken rules (EVERYONE immediately goes in if a rule is broken even just one time).

I'd also use this as a teachable moment with your son. When you fall into the pool, you should try not to panic. You should stay calm, get on your back, and float. On the same day we went over pool rules, I would get in the pool (with him fully clothed, perhaps including shoes) and practice this with him over and over.

And I would let your MIL know very explicitly that you are glad she is as concerned as you are about the incident, and that this reminded you of how hard it is to manage the four kids altogether, and that you want her to let you know if the other kids are coming over because you NEVER want her to be in the position of watching all four at once.

I would tell her as explicitly as you can that if she ever ends up with all four kids, she should call you right away (if you have a cell) and that you absolutely don't want her to have your kids in the pool area if she has all four of them. In fact, if you want, tell her that you only feel comfortable with them in the pool area when YOU are also there.

AND then you can double check some things like:

1. The pool gate is properly locked when they are not in the pool area.

2. The children have water wings or a swim vest on when she has them in the backyard (not really good for helping kids learn to swim, which IS a safety issue, but in terms of supervising the kids AROUND the pool it can be very helpful...even though they aren't a life-saving device, they can and DO save lives...my dd got pushed in a pool once with no water wings, and floating back up was the opposite of what she did...now THAT is scary)

etc.

But given that you MIL seemed appropriately concerned, and that it sounds like she was paying proper attention and what happened was a freak accident in the blink-of-an-eye, assuming the pool is gated and/or has a safety cover I wouldn't stop taking my kids over there based on what you said here. If you had concerns about her level of attentiveness, etc., or if she wasn't appropriately concerned about what happened, that would be a different matter.


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## newbymom05 (Aug 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nextcommercial* 
Yes.. this. She knew he fell in. I assume she helped him out. He was wearing floaties.

Kids fall in all the time. I'd be upset if she weren't outside.. in fact, I'd freak out if she sent him out alone. But, she was out there supervising.

*I do think it's too hard for one person to carefully supervise four kids in a pool.* It would have been nice if the sister in law would have stayed also.

I haven't read all the replies yet, but this. Is your SIL nuts or just selfish? I wouldn't leave 4 kids--with at least one that doesn't swim-- alone w/ an elderly adult and a pool unless that adult was a lifeguard. We have a pool that's safety fenced, but if it weren't I would never agree to watch 4 kids at the same time in our backyard, let alone the pool itself--it's a recipe for disaster IMHO and I don't care if I am CPR certified--i don't want it getting to that point!


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## BellinghamCrunchie (Sep 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *oceanbaby* 
With no security gate or cover I would be really nervous leaving my kids with anyone who had a pool.


So would I.

In fact, I don't think I could leave DD. I would have to stay with her or she wouldn't go. I wouldn't even go with the wearing of life jacket while in the backyard thing, because DD at 2.5 could easily get into the backyard without anyone knowing.


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## runnerbrit (May 24, 2006)

For me it would depend on a few things. Is your MIL "elderly"? My Mom and MIL are not. They are both in their early 50's and more then capable of watching 4 kids around a pool *if the oldest 2 children are good swimmers. (At 6 and 8 both of my boys were). How responsive was your MIL? From your post it sounds as if she was very responsive, even bringing out the playpen in order to keep a better eye on your child.

I do believe that water safety is very important. But I also think that not allowing your MIL to watch your kids anymore because she has a pool would be extreme.*


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

I read it that she just had 2 kids. As scary as it was I wouldn't fret it to much. I would suggest CPR/Water safety course for your mil. Maybe get her the info. I would also proved a life vest for your ds. Something you can take to and from so it doesn't go missing and you can have it at other times.

It seems like your mil was on top of things. He could have fallen down the steps. He could choke on something. He could have slipped in a tub and taken on water. She could have been carring him and fall and break his arm (my mil did this on accident). He could have swallowed a bead. All these things can happen in your care. It is her responce in an emergancy that counts.

I don't think allowing them around Grandma is reasonable. She was paying attenion. She was not grossly neglant.


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## Dandelionkid (Mar 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sierra* 
I would personally go over there with the kids and together with MIL, set some rules for the pool area (such as no one leans into the pool AT ALL EVER, for any reason...FEET FIRST ALWAYS) and some consequences for broken rules (EVERYONE immediately goes in if a rule is broken even just one time).

*I'd also use this as a teachable moment with your son. When you fall into the pool, you should try not to panic. You should stay calm, get on your back, and float. On the same day we went over pool rules, I would get in the pool (with him fully clothed, perhaps including shoes) and practice this with him over and over.*

And I would let your MIL know very explicitly that you are glad she is as concerned as you are about the incident, and that this reminded you of how hard it is to manage the four kids altogether, and that you want her to let you know if the other kids are coming over because you NEVER want her to be in the position of watching all four at once.

I would tell her as explicitly as you can that if she ever ends up with all four kids, she should call you right away (if you have a cell) and that you absolutely don't want her to have your kids in the pool area if she has all four of them. In fact, if you want, tell her that you only feel comfortable with them in the pool area when YOU are also there.

AND then you can double check some things like:

1. The pool gate is properly locked when they are not in the pool area.

2. The children have water wings or a swim vest on when she has them in the backyard (not really good for helping kids learn to swim, which IS a safety issue, but in terms of supervising the kids AROUND the pool it can be very helpful...even though they aren't a life-saving device, they can and DO save lives...my dd got pushed in a pool once with no water wings, and floating back up was the opposite of what she did...now THAT is scary)

etc.

But given that you MIL seemed appropriately concerned, and that it sounds like she was paying proper attention and what happened was a freak accident in the blink-of-an-eye, assuming the pool is gated and/or has a safety cover I wouldn't stop taking my kids over there based on what you said here. If you had concerns about her level of attentiveness, etc., or if she wasn't appropriately concerned about what happened, that would be a different matter.

I can't imagine a 2.5 yr old learning how not to panic in water but maybe my 3 yr old is unusual that way. It will probably be another couple yrs till he can calm himself in water. I also don't feel quite comfortable with the idea that it may have been just a freak accident. It is a swimming pool and should not have happened. Period. Her level of attentiveness obviously WAS lacking. Once would be too much for me and I would not allow my children over unsupervised until they could swim. *The average time it takes a child to drown is 20 seconds!!* This is too dangerous to give any benefit of the doubt to Grandma.

http://www.expertnetwork.com/sports&...ion_expert.htm


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## Mama Mko (Jul 26, 2007)

I would tell her you're uncomfortable with them being near/in the pool without 2 adults to supervise. 4 kids to 1 adult + a pool is not a good idea IMO. I would let her babysit/spend time with the kids as long as they weren't going to be swimming or have access to the pool area. Otherwise I'd offer outings someplace else like my own home or the park.


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## Dandelionkid (Mar 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amila* 
I wouldn't leave my kids alone with anyone who had a pool. Period. I wouldn't even let anyone but myself or my husband take my kids to a public pool. But I am a control freak of sorts.


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## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

I would insist that she take CPR if she is to be in charge of your kids at the pool. To make this more palatable, I might sign us both up for a class. Perfect MIL/DIL bonding opportunity.


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## Chiroalltheway (Aug 18, 2007)

Wow....I had to post. My 2 year old almost drowned in someone's pool (fenced in, but either someone left it cracked a little bit, or DS opened it.) I walked out back, saw the fence open, and took off to jump in and pull him out. Oh, mama...please take this seriously!!! Like at least one PP said, the life jacket WILL NOOOOOOOOOOT save your child's life unless they know how to doggy paddle with it on. We have been working a lot with DS2, and he still will roll over in it and can't get himself back upright. It can actually drown them, b/c of being in that face down position, and the jacket holding them there. I really don't know what to say, but please understand how scary water is. Don't feel like you are being a "paranoid" mom or anything that you have to apologize for. Pools take lives, it's just a fact. I have a just turned 4 year old, the 2 year old, and an 8 month old, and I myself won't go to a pool with all of them by myself. If there is one who cannot swim, I think they need one on one adult attention at all times.

By the way, CPR only works to a point, and I certainly would not want to give anyone a false sense of security!!


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## rubidoux (Aug 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chaoticzenmom* 
I wouldn't leave them again. Pools are just as dangerous as guns in the house. It takes only minutes of silent drowning to forever lose your child. A 2yo cannot handle a life jacket...it makes them float, but in all kinds of weird angles that make them panic. My heavy 3yo can't float right in one yet.

I wouldn't let my child play at someones house if I knew they had loose guns, and it's the same with pools. Then, if you add more adults to the mix, kids are in even more danger because one thinks the other has the kids. Not worth it. You can let them go over there after they learn to be good swimmers.









: ITA There's no way I'd leave my babies there.


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## mysticmomma (Feb 8, 2005)

I missed the part where you said your niece and nephew were there too. I would say if she has anymore than just your kids, the backyard with the pool is off limits.


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## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dandelionkid* 
I can't imagine a 2.5 yr old learning how not to panic in water but maybe my 3 yr old is unusual that way. It will probably be another couple yrs till he can calm himself in water.

That's true. I'm not suggesting this as the solution, but rather that this is one of many teachable moments in which this type of safety behavior can be taught.

We live with a pool, and have been living with this pool since dd was about 2.5 and ds was 3. Of course, we don't rely on our kids learning rules or techniques to prevent accidents or save them. We have a _*gazillion*_ safeguards (including the fact that the pool is gated and the gate automatically shuts and locks itself...but we still check and double check it and also keep a bungee cord wrapped tightly around it as a secondary security measure). But we still teach them how to react if they fall in, and slowly, slowly, I believe it is sinking in.

I've noticed that whenever I want to teach my kids something, its easiest to start with the teachable moments.

Oh, by the way, there are some who claim even babies can be taught the survival technique and the ability to be calm enough to stay afloat: 



 and 



. I'm not endorsing it (I don't really know anything about it, but it doesn't seem particularly AP), just saying.


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## Dandelionkid (Mar 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sierra* 
That's true. I'm not suggesting this as the solution, but rather that this is one of many teachable moments in which this type of safety behavior can be taught.

We live with a pool, and have been living with this pool since dd was about 2.5 and ds was 3. Of course, we don't rely on our kids learning rules or techniques to prevent accidents or save them. We have a _*gazillion*_ safeguards (including the fact that the pool is gated and the gate automatically shuts and locks itself...but we still check and double check it and also keep a bungee cord wrapped tightly around it as a secondary security measure). But we still teach them how to react if they fall in, and slowly, slowly, I believe it is sinking in.

I've noticed that whenever I want to teach my kids something, its easiest to start with the teachable moments.

Oh, by the way, there are some who claim even babies can be taught the survival technique and the ability to be calm enough to stay afloat: 



 and 



. I'm not endorsing it (I don't really know anything about it, but it doesn't seem particularly AP), just saying.

That's true- you gotta start somewhere


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## mummyofan (Jun 25, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amila* 
I wouldn't leave my kids alone with anyone who had a pool. Period. I wouldn't even let anyone but myself or my husband take my kids to a public pool. But I am a control freak of sorts.









tHIS IS precisely MY VIEW. cHILDREN CAN DROWN IN 2 INCHES i'M TOLD. sorry, caps! I also ask about guns when I go to new playtime houses.
I'd suggest she takes care of them in your house and they visit hers with you.


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## wendypf (Aug 23, 2008)

Her backyard sounds a lot like mine... you know what I do? I only go in the backyard with DD when we're going swimming and usually someone else is home too. As soon as we are out of the pool, its back into the house. If we want to go outside we hang out in the front or side yard or go to the park.

I would not go to a pool area with a toddler and another kid. Its scary enough having one small one in the pool.

Next time you leave them at you MIL tell her you are not comfortable with the kids playing in the backyard. Considering your son fell in the pool, this should not be an issue (not that it should be an issue otherwise, but I know how sensitive my MIL can be, you really cant talk to her).


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## YummyYarnAddict (Sep 24, 2007)

I'm a pretty good swimmer and I'm certified in infant and child CPR as well as Sports Safety Training through the Red Cross, but even if two of the kids were my own and I knew that they didn't play well with two other children, I would be uncomfortable watching all 4 of them around water. That's just my personal take on it. While I would be comfortable watching them all and refereeing on dry land, water changes everything I think. I would be inclined to talk to MIL and feel her out about the situation and gently suggest that perhaps if the same thing happened again in the future, that the pool/water play end and everyone either go inside or away from the water. Water is just so unpredictable that it makes me nervous. I think that it's hard to control whether or not your SIL drops her kids off and it would put your MIL in a difficult position perhaps to turn her other grandchildren away (what if SIL says it's "just for a few minutes" or so that she can "do a quick errand"?), but a change of scene to ensure the most safe environment possible wouldn't be unreasonable I would think.


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## primjillie (May 4, 2004)

My mom has a pool and can't swim, but I still left my little ones with her. She was strict about not letting them outside at all when they were little and when they got a little older, they were swimmers by then. Even when I was there, all non swimmers had to wear water wings. I do have to say, that even being an overprotective parent and now grandparent - my granddaughter fell in my sister's pool when she was two. I was watching her but it can happen quickly. She went under and I snatched her out of the water by her clothing. People are human and even parents can make mistakes. Honestly, I would be heartbroken if my son wouldn't let me watch his kids, because of the fall into the pool. You know your mil better than any of us, so I think you would be the best judge of how to handle this.


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## Dukey25 (Nov 19, 2006)

I vote life jacket. I personally hate pools I see them as death traps but I hate water. I would teach my kids to wear life jackets when around water ie gmas pool and that it is safer and mandatory like a seat belt or helmet. I would also teach my kids to swim (which my kids are enrolled in swimming and it does help my piece of mind).

I am a big believer in extended family and I try to foster the relationship it kinda sucks that some gma's can't see when they can't handle a situation (my mom is a great example she wants the kids but then needs to nap the rest of the day) if everyone learns that they life jackets go on as soon as they go in the backyard (maybe keep them at the door) even when you are there just to get everyone use to it and then you are not saying "well you are no good at watching the kids or whatever"

I would also approach the subject in a very non-confrontational way like "you know I was thinking it might be a good idea if the kids always wear life jackets in the backyard because kids are crazy and you never know what they are going to do"

I also wanted to add I don't think you mother is negligent but I think that watching non swimmers around a pool is a all consuming job even if I was there I would be more comfortable with the life jackets all it takes is a moment.


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## kcstar (Mar 20, 2009)

They sell safety nets for pools, to keep toddlers above the water. I would make the backyard strictly off-limits to the toddlers unless 1) such a net or cover is in place or 2) there is one adult for each toddler swimming with them.


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## musikat (Oct 30, 2002)

I am totally paranoid about water and my three kids (and I grew up on a lake and can't remember a time when I couldn't swim). I have just this year gotten to the point where I allow my oldest (7 1/2 and a good swimmer) to go in the 9 foot section of our neighborhood pool and dive. I sometimes allow my 5 1/2 year old to go too, but only if I am directly watching. My 2 year old wears a swimming "device" that is a one piece suit with a built-in tube that inflates. It works really well, and I would recommend checking into it. It's SwimWays. It's similar to this one: http://www.swimways.com/product-detail.asp?pid={F5FD720A-3EBC-4D0A-8CDF-4A07F3FE427E}, except mine is a full bodysuit so there is no chance of slipping out.

Even with that on, I have had to "rescue" him a couple of times. Once when he was spinning in the water and got so dizzy he unbalanced and ended up face forward, and once when the tube got "caught" on a step and he was also face down. Both times I was watching him like a hawk and within a few feet of him, as I always am.

In your situation I would not stop visiting grandma, but I would make a rule (and this is one I stick to myself) that there is absolutely no swimming unless you are there. if that means staying out of the backyard, maybe she could take them to a park instead or play out front or just inside. There is no way she can really watch 4 kids under 8 in the pool, especially with your two being so young. There is too much that could go wrong. It would have been better for her to have told SIL to come back later when your kids had left, or insisted she stay to watch her own kids. JMO.


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## suziek (Jun 4, 2004)

I have 4 kids and we spend a lot of time in and around the water--university swimming pool, ocean beaches, boat, surfing, boogie boarding, swim team and swim lessons--but I am very gald we don't have a background swimming pool. They really are a lot of fun, but risky, too and not worth it with kids my kids ages ( also think they are especially dangerous with teenagers--this is based only on impressions not on any real stats so take this with a grain of salt--who are likely to do allkinds of crazy diving and playing in relatively and shallow places).

That said, I do think it is possible to keep 4 kids safe in the water. The key: teach them to swim very, very well. My youngest can now swim on his own--as in jump off the diving board, swim to a ladder, float on his back, flip himself from front to back and back to front. He's never out of arms reach anyway, but he is a good swimmer for his age.

OPs MIL sounds like she might be a little like my mother--my mother loves children, raised a batch and thinks a day with 4 or more grandkids is a magical one. So I guard against her overextending herself--I have rarely left all my kids with her at her house. She has watched them (bless her brave soul) here many times, but here I know here she won't have drop by visitors, etc. And she will take the older two for an overnight from time to time.

I would certainly continue to give MIL and DCs time together, OP, but I might ask her to come visit at your house. And I'd make sure there were special treats for her so that she comes to enjoy that as much as watching the kids at her house.

I do think SIL was out of line here, and should not have left her kids there. IF they wanted to swim she could have stayed and helped out. I don't think I'd say anything about it, but I would be peeved.

Sorry you had to go through this OP. Again, I recommend Red Cross or YMCA swimming lessons (the red cross program here is far better than the YMCA but that might not be the same in your area). Swimming is such great fun for kids, and sport they can do for a lifetime.


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greeny* 
I would never agree to supervise 4 kids at a pool.

Me too, and I have taken some basic life saving lessons which included dragging a struggling non-swimmer to safety from deep water, basic mouth to mouth and CPR (though I really out of date on those, maybe I should get a refresher course.) Though these skills may one day be necessary, I want to avoid the need for them first. I don't even take just DS swimming all by myself, I only take him to places with active lifeguards. There is just too many things to pay attention to, to believe that one will never take an eye off the toddler.

I would not go the life jacket route. Honesty, I think most water safety flotation devices give a false sense of security. If your DS hadn't been wearing water wings, then your MIL might have used better judgement about letting him near the pool at all.

The fact that there was also a kiddie pool that was for your DSs, actually worries me more. That means that her attention was split between the older kids in the big pool and the younger kids in the little pool. MIL could not have possibly kept an eye on both pools constantly.

Though I do think the lifesaving classes are a good idea, it is only a start. I would also insist on the following:

two adults present when the kids are in big pool
constant supervision for the kiddie pool
a safety fence for the pool (you could offer to slit the cost)
The simple fact that the 2 yo fell in the pool, doesn't seem like a big deal in and of itself. If it had happened when she had another adult present and she knew lifesaving, then I would not think twice about letting her watch him again. Under proper circumstances, he would be rescued swiftly and proper first aid could be administered. However, it happened under circumstances where he was saved by the grace of water wings and was simply lucky. If he had been in distress she wouldn't be able to resuscitate. Since she was alone had it happened more quietly she might not have heard it. Also, since she was alone the other three kids were basically unsupervised while she rescued the 2 yo.


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## goodygumdrops (Jan 25, 2007)

I would either have a very candid and serious talk with her or I would never allow her to watch my child again. Just fyi, my son is super comfortable in the water and he literally jumps into the deep end with water wings on and he's 2 1/2. However, one time I let him go on the stairs without his water wings and he jumped off twice into the water and if I hadn't been right there he could have seriously drowned. I was less than two feet from my son and I was talking to another mother and we look over and my son is treading water. It was frightening.

This experience made me realize that a child could drown RIGHT IN FRONT of their parents at a pool party etc if someone isn't actively watching the children. It really freaked me out so I would make sure that she knows this.

GL


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## Dukey25 (Nov 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eepster* 

I would not go the life jacket route. Honesty, I think most water safety flotation devices give a false sense of security. If your DS hadn't been wearing water wings, then your MIL might have used better judgement about letting him near the pool at all.

.

Maybe I am wrong but I have always understood life jackets to be safer than water wings. A life jacket will force the wearer on their back where as a water wings merely allows them to float. If my assumption is true I would be comfortable with a life jacket because the child will be floating properly until someone gets them out of the water.


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## AGF (Aug 6, 2009)

I love my mother to pieces. However, I know that she is not able to care for my two toddlers on her own. ESPECIALLY, with my two nephews in tow. I have noticed that the more people who are there, the more she assumes that someone must have their eyes on them. Which turns out to be exactly the opposite of true. Anyway, I always make a point to invite my mom out on afternoons to go somewhere and be sure to ask for a lot of help. Or tell her that I really need to get some cleaning done, would she mind coming over to my house and watch the kids while I am scrubbing the upstairs. This way we are both happy. She gets alone time with the kids and I know I can lend her a hand when they get crazy. I know this sounds patronizing but really, again, I love and respect her, I just know that her baby chasing days are over. So for another year or two this is our MO.

As for the pool, they are so dangerous. It takes seconds. I would just avoid leaving them there alone until after pool season for this year and see what the situation looks like for next year. Maybe swim lessons this fall?

Sorry if this is not at all what you are looking for, it just feels very familiar to me.


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dukey25* 
Maybe I am wrong but I have always understood life jackets to be safer than water wings. A life jacket will force the wearer on their back where as a water wings merely allows them to float. If my assumption is true I would be comfortable with a life jacket because the child will be floating properly until someone gets them out of the water.

Life jackets vary in how well they do this. In my admittedly limited experience with them the more comfortable they are, the less well they flip a person. So, yes they are a great improvement over water wings, but they are not a substitute for proper water safety.

A hot uncomfortable toddler is likely to try to remove it if given the opportunity. A life jacket can only flip a person in some what deep water. Flipping is also chancy, sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. If it doesn't fit right, the child might slip out of it. Children who become accustomed to feeling safe in water from wearing flotation aids may start to believe they can swim and jump into water.

I'm a firm believer of wearing life jackets on small water craft, such as rowboats or canoes. However, I never put any on DS when we are swimming.


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## ElliesMomma (Sep 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nextcommercial* 
Kids fall in all the time. I'd be upset if she weren't outside.. in fact, I'd freak out if she sent him out alone. But, she was out there supervising.

if she hadn't been outside, the child may well have drowned.

drownings are the second leading cause of death for children, following car accidents.

the backyard pool at MILs is trouble if you want my opinion. i would not leave my children there. maybe in the winter when the pool is drained?

to the OP: your children sound very young. but you should make it a priority that they get quality swimming lessons from a very early age. especially considering that they are going to be exposed to the backyard pool at grandma's *and* rambunctious older cousins who aren't careful around them (assuming this behavior extends to the pool, too?)

and watch out for the fact that your child wasn't unnerved by falling into the pool. yes, the water wings helped save him. at two years old, unlikely that he realizes that he will not have the same floating experience without the water wings on.

just too many worrisome things going on there. i'm sorry, but i wouldn't feel comfortable running errands while my kids were out of sight there. just doesn't seem worth the risk.


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## confustication (Mar 18, 2006)

First, I think waterwings are a truly foolish piece of 'equipment' to put on any child. They do instill a sense of fearlessness that can lead to tragedy, and they will not help a child who is in trouble. If you want anything on a child, make sure it's an appropriately fitted PFD.

That said, I am completely unphased by the idea of a backyard pool at the grandparents. My parents are in their mid 60s, and I would be comfortable with them supervising my kids around a pool.

I have been a lifeguard since I was 16, and returned to it yet again this summer, and I find that kids generally do pretty well with clear rules, and no artificial flotation devices to give them a sense of security they shouldn't have. DS was 11 months old when I took him to the pool. His first inclination was to start crawling forward, and he wound up with a wet face (and a much greater respect for the fact that he can't breathe water.) Obiously, with a child who is that young, you are always within arm's reach, but it sounds like the OP's child wasn't left unattended to sink or swim, he had adequate supervision and the child wound up just fine.

I think that, were I in the OP's shoes, I'd provide some good quality life jackets, and have a chat with the SIL about making sure she understood that the younger grandkids need time with the grandparents without the older grandkids around sometimes.


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## childsplay (Sep 4, 2007)

Wow, I'm a little stunned! Your saying your MIL has four little ones running free around an open pool with no lifejackets on? Water wings and float suits don't cut it, nor do swim rings, back floaties, pool noodles etc....all give a sense of (false) security to the children and adults. As a former lifeguard and a mom who's lived onboard a boat with three kids I've seen waterwings slide off, float suits not float (not well enough to keep the childs mouth and nose above the choppy pool water, choppy because there's other kids splashing around), pool noodle absorb water and hover beneath the surface, swim rings blow away, back floaties fall off when the child jumps in the water....and that's not even touching the unlifejacketed kids I've seen, or plucked out of pools and oceans. For us lifejackets rank up there with carseats, they work.

Your MIL needs to take a first aid/cpr course, she needs approved, fitting life jackets for every child, does she have a rescue ring or a line to toss? What about here filter cover? Is it the new curved type (that a body won't suction to) or the old style?
I'm glad to hear she pulled out the playpen though, even at your little guy's loss of freedom. At least he was safe : )
Does she get in the water with the kids?
And she needs to either have another adult present, or not take the other children! What happens if someone needs a band aid, a drink, a diaper, a kleenex, a snack, a toy, etc? Her attention would be off of the kids in the pool!
Would she consider a pool fence?

I'd do two things, first I'd speak with MIL and tell her why you specifically picked that day (no other kids there) and if she wants to continue to spend time with your children she'll have to stand up to the sister in law and tell her not to drop her kids off when yours are there.

I'd go along a few times and lay down some unbendable rules like no lifejacket, we go home. Kids will bawk at first if they're not used to a lifevest, but if it's the proper size, they'll get used to it quickly.
My own kids lived in their lifejackets for years, they wore them more than they wore shoes, and the lifejackets have not only saved them on occasion (once DS fell overboard while cruising, and they've all fallen out of the dinghy at least once) but it also gave us the two seconds to deal with another child without the fear that one would fall in and drown.
I'm glad your little guy is ok.
Sorry this got so long, I'm a bit of a freak when it comes to kids and water : )


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## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

My opinion is that you avoid hurting her feelings and just fix things on your end.

Why don't you put your kids in http://www.infantswim.com/ or a similar program and get them water alarms like this http://www.safetyturtle.com/ that you can bring with you and set up every time your kids visit.


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## DaughterOfKali (Jul 15, 2007)

I have to say that I wouldn't leave my kids there. Just too risky for my liking.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

He had water wings on, and she only looked away for a second. He was NOT in danger of drowning -- and what's more, what happened obviously scared her to the point that she went to more extraordinary measures to keep him safe after that. I wouldn't have any doubts about leaving my child with her again.

My son fell in the pool a couple times last year, when he was doing similar things -- filling a bucket, reaching for a toy, etc. Either my mom or I pulled him out -- whichever one of us was watching him -- and no one was worse for the wear. Certainly he was never anywhere near drowning, and he didn't even have water wings on.

It sounds like your children have a loving grandmother who cherishes her time with them and wants to keep them safe. Consider yourself lucky!


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## chaoticzenmom (May 21, 2005)

I keep thinking of this thread. I came to explain why I answered the way I did that I wouldn't leave them there anymore at all. I was watching a 3yo once. All day, we were at the pool and he had his wings on. He had a great time, jumping in the water and swimming around. Then, his mom arrived to get him and I took off his wings so that he could leave. He didn't remember that his wings were off and he jumped right into the water when nobody was looking. His mom turned around and he was under the water, staring at us, silently. She pulled him out and he vomited a few times. It was aweful and scary. So quiet. There were about 6 adults 3 feet away from him and he almost drowned.

Don't take the pool thing lightly. It doesn't mean that grandma can't be with him, but just not at her house until the child can swim. It really isn't worth the risk. I think that many of the people who have posted that it's no big deal, have never seen what we did that day. I always thought that drowning would include splashing and cries for help. Not complete silence!

I even made my husband take out our 3foot by 3foot water fountain pond when we had this last baby. It won't go back in until he's about 4.


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chaoticzenmom* 
I keep thinking of this thread. I came to explain why I answered the way I did that I wouldn't leave them there anymore at all. I was watching a 3yo once. All day, we were at the pool and he had his wings on. He had a great time, jumping in the water and swimming around. Then, his mom arrived to get him and I took off his wings so that he could leave. *He didn't remember that his wings were off and he jumped right into the water when nobody was looking.* His mom turned around and he was under the water, staring at us, silently. She pulled him out and he vomited a few times. It was aweful and scary. So quiet. There were about 6 adults 3 feet away from him and he almost drowned.

bold mine

This is exactly why I think water wings are a bad idea.


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## ShwarmaQueen (Mar 28, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marylizah* 
I'm going to opt for the "teach your kids to swim ASAP" option.









:

Additionally, everyone who keeps kids should know CPR, regardless if there is a pool around.








I'm sorry. That's very scary.


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## luv-my-boys (Dec 8, 2008)

One of the things that really worries me is that the primary caretaker dosent know CPR and has a pool. Those 2 things are a bad combination. Really everyone who has a pool,spa,jacuzzi or is the primary caretaker of a child needs to know CPR. I worked as a pediatric ER nurse and it just breaks my heart how many children came in due to water and no one knew CPR. I remember one child in particular that was at a huge family gathering and literally no one knew CPR, the ambulance got there 10 min. too late







Had someone known CPR perhaps that child would be alive. This was a child surrounded by over 20 people.

My sons are not very good at swimming and we recently visited a relatives house that has a pool. Fenced in their backyard but no fence around the pool. We insisted that they wear a life jacket every time they set foot into the backyard regardless plus a adult was ALWAYS out there watching them. A lifejacket dosent replace vigilence but buys you a few moments to react. If she isnt willing to take CPR you can get one of those laminated cheat cheats to place by the pool. We bought ours thru a red cross online store and have them posted in several spots in our house.


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## newmommy7-08 (Feb 2, 2008)

I would not allow her to watch them again if she didn't respect the need to keep them away from the pool. It doesn't seem like she is capable of caring for them all at the pool (not many people would be with a ratio of 4:1 with a pool involved so this is not a slam against her) It seems like SIL is apt to drop her kids off at any given time, so heartbreaking or not she would not watch my child again unless she agreed to keep them completely away from the pool, and a pack n play is not a solution!

I feel we'd all be a heck of a lot more heartbroken if anything happened to any one of the kids because she was busy with another. Neither DH or I would have any problem telling MIL this point blank.


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## jennpn (Jul 30, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nextcommercial* 
Yes.. this. She knew he fell in. I assume she helped him out. He was wearing floaties.

Kids fall in all the time. I'd be upset if she weren't outside.. in fact, I'd freak out if she sent him out alone. But, she was out there supervising.

I do think it's too hard for one person to carefully supervise four kids in a pool. It would have been nice if the sister in law would have stayed also.

KIDS fall in, but toddlers who can't swim should never be given the oppertunity to. I don't let my mil who is very repsonsible have my 2 year old alone at her home in the summer months becuase of my concern that she is easily distractable and know how easy it can be to forget how active and fast young children are. I think my child is above all my responsibility. If he is injured in the care of another then ultamatly I am still responsible for this. If this accident happened once it can happen again, I would not be able to give the situation another chance to happen beucase I would never be able to say I didn't see it coming. Next time it could be far worse. Of course I AM a paranoid parent...


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jennpn* 
KIDS fall in, but toddlers who can't swim should never be given the oppertunity to.

Seriously? Do you just not take your toddlers to the pool, then? Unless you avoid the water at all costs, toddlers are going to have the opportunity to fall in . . . so you keep an eye on them, and fish them out if and when they do. Which is exactly what the MIL in this post did.


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## goodygumdrops (Jan 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chaoticzenmom* 
I keep thinking of this thread. I came to explain why I answered the way I did that I wouldn't leave them there anymore at all. I was watching a 3yo once. All day, we were at the pool and he had his wings on. He had a great time, jumping in the water and swimming around. Then, his mom arrived to get him and I took off his wings so that he could leave. He didn't remember that his wings were off and he jumped right into the water when nobody was looking. His mom turned around and he was under the water, staring at us, silently. She pulled him out and he vomited a few times. It was aweful and scary. So quiet. There were about 6 adults 3 feet away from him and he almost drowned.

Don't take the pool thing lightly. It doesn't mean that grandma can't be with him, but just not at her house until the child can swim. It really isn't worth the risk. I think that many of the people who have posted that it's no big deal, have never seen what we did that day. I always thought that drowning would include splashing and cries for help. Not complete silence!

I even made my husband take out our 3foot by 3foot water fountain pond when we had this last baby. It won't go back in until he's about 4.









: This is what almost happened to my son and he's 30 months. He basically went under right in front of us but held his breath thankfully. If he hadn't, he would have thrown up a ton of water. But the most frightening this is that it was SILENT. He made absolutely NO noise or splashing. It really made me realize how easy a child could drowned right in front of someone.


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## Kidzaplenty (Jun 17, 2006)

If it were me, I would never allow my children to be in the yard with the pool without me there. Not even for a moment. If the children were to visit, I would insist that they did not go into the yard with the pool.

Of course, I may be a bit jaded. I have lost one daughter to complications from a near drowning and almost lost another. I refuse to take that chance again.


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## SquishyKitty (Jun 10, 2005)

Buy some life jackets and leave them at the house for your kids. Ask that they wear them at all times around the pool "Because they haven't had swim lessons yet, and you know how fast something can happen".


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## beanbean30 (May 3, 2007)

Look into Infantswim.com
We live in Texas so pools are common and needed to cool off in summer so even though it's tough at first I put my 3 year old through these lessons and it is amazing. In 6 weeks she learned to swim underwater and 'save' herself if needed, should she fall in to a pool she is trained to float and swim to safety.

While it does not substitute for adult supervision I feel it's a great skill for her to have.

BTW I am not in any way affiliated with the company


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## gillibean (Nov 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greeny* 
I think she showed very poor judgment in agreeing to watch two additional kids by a pool (for a total of 4!!!) when SIL showed up. If she were a certified lifeguard or at least CPR certified, that might be one thing. But not being trained in life-saving techniques, she should have opted to bring all the kids inside or asked SIL to stay or take her kids away.

I would never agree to supervise 4 kids at a pool. And I would be really upset if someone I trusted to watch my two kids decided to watch two more in such an environment.

I am actually bothered by the fact that she agreed to watch your niece and nephew at all when you specifically chose that day so they would NOT be there. Then to try to supervise them all at the pool is even more of a concern. If something had happened to one of them she would not have been able to keep an eye on either of your children. I would let her know that you're uncomfortable with her watching your SIL's children and your children at the same time and that if she's watching your children, you don't want them to go out to the pool.


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## gillibean (Nov 28, 2006)

I also wanted to clarify, most 'life jackets' that people have for their children are personal flotation devices (PFD's). They are designed to make their wearer float but not necessarily face-up. A true life jacket (not just a pfd) is designed to flip it's wearer over so the face is out of the water.

A PFD (which is what most people have and is more commonly available) can give a false sense of security.


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## Caneel (Jun 13, 2007)

Someone may have already mentioned this but if you do go with a life vest, you need to be very careful in selecting the right one and that it fits or it can do more harm than good.

I have experience being in the open ocean wearing an ill-fitting PFD and while I consider myself a strong, comfortable swimmer, it scared me as it limited my range of motion and came up around my face and neck.

I was told by a pro (well, someone from the red cross) when shopping for one for DS (for boating) that even vests that are suppose to turn a person face up can't be trusted to do so unless you go with something like a true sailor, coast guard, or rescue personel would use. These, of course, will be more expensive and harder to find than a basic child's PDF from any big box store.

Especially with a child, face down in a vest isn't go to provide any safety at all.


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## noobmom (Jan 19, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kidzaplenty* 
If it were me, I would never allow my children to be in the yard with the pool without me there. Not even for a moment. If the children were to visit, I would insist that they did not go into the yard with the pool.

Of course, I may be a bit jaded. I have lost one daughter to complications from a near drowning and almost lost another. I refuse to take that chance again.

I'm so sorry.









I, for one, will listen to the voice of experience. Ask that MIL keep the kids inside if she's watching the kids. I don't think she'll object. I personally would not even want to watch 2 non-swimmers in the pool at the same time. Water wings are not safety devices. Life jackets are a bit better, but still, I'd rather my children know how to swim before being unsupervised by me or my husband.


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

I haven't read through the replies. I would take this extremely seriously. People do not respect pools and that's a problem. I'm very free range with my toddler--probably to the point where many people here would think I am neglectful. I don't have any intention of teaching my kid about stranger abduction (the rate of that is astronomical) and I intend to teach her gun safety, not to avoid them at all costs. That said: pools are flippin dangerous.

From the CDC:
* In 2005, there were 3,582 fatal unintentional drownings in the United States, averaging ten deaths per day. An additional 710 people died, from drowning and other causes, in boating-related incidents.1, 2
* More than one in four fatal drowning victims are children 14 and younger.¹ For every child who dies from drowning, another four received emergency department care for nonfatal submersion injuries.1
* Nonfatal drownings can cause brain damage that may result in long-term disabilities including memory problems, learning disabilities, and permanent loss of basic functioning (i.e., permanent vegetative state).

By contrast there were 642 deaths in 2006 from accidental gunshot wounds. No one is going to blow off handling a gun because it is less dangerous. Why do people think pools are safe? It sounds like she is not doing an adequate job of supervising your kids. Pools are a really big deal. Your kid really should be in a life vest at all times around a pool if he is not a good swimmer.


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## lillacfaerie (Jun 29, 2009)

I haven't read all the posts, but I wouldn't leave them alone with her again. I'm sorry, but toddlers should not play near a pool. They can play in the pool if there is an adult with them. It's not about paying attention. Letting them play near water is a bad choice on her part. I'm glad your son is ok. So scary!


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

This post is from almost 2 months ago....


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## Tizzy (Mar 16, 2007)

Thanks for the additional replies!
After the incident we made sure that our kids were never without a life jacket (not a PFD) in their back yard and will continue to do so until they are strong swimmers. Seems dorky, especially when they had this big backyard party and our kids were the only ones wearing them... but I don't mind.

I also told her that I'm not comfortable with her watching all four children in her backyard, even if no one is swimming. It's too chaotic to keep track of them all. She tried to point out that the other two CAN swim, but I countered with "accidents can happen...what if my nephew used the diving board and hit his head? With two toddlers to keep away from the pool, she couldn't reasonably even help him without endangering the others.

We also agreed that if she wanted to take the kids "swimming", there's a great splash pad not too far away, I would gladly install the carseats in her vehicle so she could take them there. She pointed out that that may be safer anyway







so we're on the same page! It's nice to have a reasonable MIL!


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## Mama Mko (Jul 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tizzy* 
It's nice to have a reasonable MIL!

That's awesome! I'm glad it all turned out well.


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## QueenOfTheMeadow (Mar 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tizzy* 
Thanks for the additional replies!
After the incident we made sure that our kids were never without a life jacket (not a PFD) in their back yard and will continue to do so until they are strong swimmers. Seems dorky, especially when they had this big backyard party and our kids were the only ones wearing them... but I don't mind.

I also told her that I'm not comfortable with her watching all four children in her backyard, even if no one is swimming. It's too chaotic to keep track of them all. She tried to point out that the other two CAN swim, but I countered with "accidents can happen...what if my nephew used the diving board and hit his head? With two toddlers to keep away from the pool, she couldn't reasonably even help him without endangering the others.

We also agreed that if she wanted to take the kids "swimming", there's a great splash pad not too far away, I would gladly install the carseats in her vehicle so she could take them there. She pointed out that that may be safer anyway







so we're on the same page! It's nice to have a reasonable MIL!

Sounds like the perfect solution! I'm glad you were both able to work it out.


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## ramama (Apr 13, 2007)

I haven't read the whole thread, but I would insist on no swimming unless there is an adult for each non-swimmer, and maybe an adult for every two swimmers. My girls are 5 and 3 and only very basic swimmers. I don't take them to the pool without DH and they have life jackets on even then.


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## leighi123 (Nov 14, 2007)

Get rid of the water wings (those things are dangerous, you got lucky they worked ok this time). Do a coast guard approved life jacket w/crotch strap instead.

Have him take ISR swimming lessons. My 2 yr old can float on his back in the pool for 10+ min, and he can get to the side easily without freaking out. (he loves it actually)

At least one adult thats going to be there should have CPR/first aid - its easy to get and you never know when you will need it.


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## ashleyhaugh (Jun 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chaoticzenmom* 
I keep thinking of this thread. I came to explain why I answered the way I did that I wouldn't leave them there anymore at all. I was watching a 3yo once. All day, we were at the pool and he had his wings on. He had a great time, jumping in the water and swimming around. Then, his mom arrived to get him and I took off his wings so that he could leave. He didn't remember that his wings were off and he jumped right into the water when nobody was looking. His mom turned around and he was under the water, staring at us, silently. She pulled him out and he vomited a few times. It was aweful and scary. So quiet. There were about 6 adults 3 feet away from him and he almost drowned.


my mom has a similar story. i was about 2.5 and she was at the pool with my and my 6ish month old little sister. i had my floaties on, and she turned her back for a second to do something with the baby. when she turned back around i was gone. i had taken my floaties of and silently jumped/slid in the water. she ran to the edge of the pool and i was sitting on the bottom of the pool looking up. she says its like i wasnt freaking out or anything, just sitting there waiting for someone to get me


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mysticmomma* 
it sounds like he was fine with the water wings. I'm sure he learned a lot from that incident. I'd leave it alone. Or offer to get a little pool he can fill his bucket from for the back yard.

Water wings ARE NOT safe to use unsupervised. Period.

I was a lifeguard for many years, and a swim instructor. Water wings were not allowed at any pool that I worked at. This was b/c they can slip from the childs shoulders to their wrists, and then the childs hands are floating but their upper body isn't - so neither is there head.

I rescued a child once who was wearing water wings - they had slipped up to her wrists, and she couldn't get them off, and also couldn't pull her head above water. It was very scary for her and me, and her parents felt terrible. I would not use water wings.


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Ds is not left at MIL's without us b/c of their pool without a fence around it. People may think it's overkill, but I am not comfortable with it.

Glad you found a working solution.


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## KMK_Mama (Jan 29, 2006)

Well, at least he had the water wings on.

But, if you don't have a pool fence, I'm not leaving my kids there. No way, no how.


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## pediaoncall (Dec 31, 2015)

*Child Drowning*

When a child falls into a pool of water or a river or any other water body and water enters into the lungs leading to death among 24 hours, it is known as drowning. If that person survives more than 24 hours, it is called near-drowning.

So, what do you during drowning that causes that child to die?
When some child submerges in water, the first thing that strikes boy/girl is panic, in its severest form, for fear of death is the biggest fear[/URL]. During the panic, water enters the throat and the throat muscles contract. The child continues to move and struggle and lots and lots of water enters the stomach continuously. The windpipe muscles go into severe spasm, boy/girl loses consciousness and the body is starved of oxygen.

I hope this is a helpful for you.


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