# Regret NOT circumcising?



## ~NewMa~ (Nov 20, 2007)

I feel kind of stupid posting this but I need to discuss it.
If you are offended by this or feel like I am a stupid person, please don't respond.
SO, I'm going to be completely honest here and hope that I'm not alone and someone here has been in my shoes and can chnage the way I'm thinking right now.
My son will be 2 in April.
He is intact.
It has been a choice I have had to defend to family members and friends since the beginning.
Initially I saw circumcision as an unnecessary procdeure that is cruel to the infant boy.
But, as time goes on I sometimes wish he WAS circumcised.
I feel guilty for feeling this way.
My main reason for feeling like I wish he had been is because I feel like the boys who are circumcised, although there is a window of time after the procedure where there is concern about infection, that is the only time they really have to worry about the penis and it's developement.
I feel like with an intact boy there is a constant worry (for me) that there may be something wrong.
Just recently his urine started to smell a little bit "off". I immediately worry that he is developing a UTI which I don't feel he would be at risk for if he was circumcised.
Then I read posts on here about redness, fevers, soreness, question after question about retraction and the damage it can cause.
I worry about letting him touch it because I'm afraid his dirty little kid fingers will introduce infection.
I worry about him developing smegma pearls and having to endure irritation to it during the separation process.
These are things I don't think I would worry about if he were circumcised.
I have my father constantly telling me I made the wrong decision and reminding me that there are 3 men he knows that had circumcisions performed later in life due to recurrent infections.
My grandfather is not circumcised and he too tells me that he thinks I made the wrong decision for my son because he wishes every day that he were circumsised.
I don't want to mention my concerns to my husband because I had to convince him that not circumsising was the right decision but now I'm not so sure and I don't want to admit that I possibly made the wrong decision.
I guess, the "norm" for me is a circumsised penis and so I still have alot to learn about the intact penis, but I feel like there is nothing to learn about a circumsised one. After it's healed, there are never really any problems.
You don' have to worry about seperation or developement, or redness and soreness and all these other things that you all claim are "normal" about an intact penis.
And I don't think that comparing it to a vagina is accurate. '
There are a lot of posts that question whether or not they think a female should have the hood of her clit removed to prevent problems and question why we can't just treat the intact penis like we treat the vagina. But honestly, it doesn't seem like the vagina goes through as many changes during developement. Not as many outward changes anyway-changes that a girl can feel and may question as normal.
I just worry that a problem will arise and I will have to defend my decision not to have circumsised my son.
There seem to be many more possible complications and inconveniences of an intact penis than a circumsised one.
Please remind me why I made this decision.
And be gentle with me.
I'm not posting this to be confrontational or cause anyone to feel defensive or insulted.
I know I have a lot to learn and I'm looking to learning it.


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## KGB (Jan 30, 2010)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~NewMa~* 
There seem to be many more possible complications and inconveniences of an intact penis than a circumsised one.

Honestly, I don't see it that way. I see lots of threads here asking about how to deal with problems/infections of intact boys, but I attribute it to MDC being a great place to get info on caring for intact boys, not because leaving boys intact creates more problems that circumcision would solve.

I believe there are more issues with circumcised penises that aren't blamed on the circumcisions themselves, or if they are, they weren't "done correctly". The mentality to circs seems to be "one quick snip" and all the problems will go away. I completely disagree. I think that's when problems begin.

I'm an uncircumcised male. I'm 32 years old. From what I remember, I've never had any issues with having a foreskin. This is pretty common throughout the world. Here in the US most of us have been taught to believe that cutting the foreskin off creates a more clean or infection free environment. The research done has proven most of that to be incorrect. However, the myths about circumcision won't die because there is passion and emotion behind it.

I am sorry if your son has gone through any troubles, but I would not attribute them to your decision to not circumcise him. Children will get plenty of infections of all sorts as they grow up. We should never blame ourselves for them.

As far as care for a boy's intact penis, I've always seen it as much easier than a circumcised one. You simply wipe it like a finger and leave it alone. Compare that to the instructions for cleaning a circumcised penis after it is done. It would make me dread changing my son's diapers every time.

Oh, and one more thing. You've given your son the choice on what to do with his own body when he's older. If he chooses to have a circumcision done when he's old enough, that's fine because he will be making the choice for himself. You should be proud as a mother that you have given him that choice. I'm proud of you.


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## Unconventional1 (Apr 3, 2006)

" After it's healed, there are never really any problems.
You don' have to worry about seperation or developement, or redness and soreness and all these other things that you all claim are "normal" about an intact penis. "

I think these thoughts are absolutely incorrect. My husband has had MANY issues with being circed during his lifetime. So what if your son was circed and it was botched? Or like my husband and so many others, he was not left with enough skin to grow into, causing extremely tight and painful erections, which are not pleasant during sex for me either due to the friction it causes? Or the pain he feels where the frenulum was removed due to scar tissue? Or the lack of sensitivity up to a certain point, then over-sensitivity after that point? My husband experiences some form of pain due to his circ. on a weekly basis, plus the pain of the procedure itself (oh yeah and he REMEMBERS that too) is WAY worse than separation pain, which is temporary.

There are many men who have sexual disfunction issues due to circ. So teach your son how to properly care for himself as he gets older, and then he will be spared the worst of both circ and intactness.


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~NewMa~* 
I feel kind of stupid posting this but I need to discuss it.

I toyed with the idea of circumcision myself back and forth, many times, after we left our son intact. It was a long time until intact finally became normal in my mind, and I was comfortable with it.

Quote:

Just recently his urine started to smell a little bit "off". I immediately worry that he is developing a UTI which I don't feel he would be at risk for if he was circumcised.
I think you might need to educate yourself on the intact penis and what the foreskin does, how the penis develops, etc. That might lessen your worries. As for the UTI thing, the increase of UTIs among intact boys was in the FIRST year of life, only. And even then the studies are shaky, because they compared intact preemies to full term circumcised boys, and preemies will always come out sicklier.

Quote:

Then I read posts on here about redness, fevers, soreness, question after question about retraction and the damage it can cause.
BECAUSE this is one of the only sites out there where parents can ask questions to people who are knowledgable about foreskins and intact care.

Quote:

I worry about letting him touch it because I'm afraid his dirty little kid fingers will introduce infection.
Girls touch their bits, too. Urine flushes out most everything. A soak in the tub at the end of the day does a good job, too.

Quote:

I worry about him developing smegma pearls and having to endure irritation to it during the separation process.
Will you worry about growing pains as his bones lengthen? Cramping your daughters will experience when they get their periods? Tender breasts at puberty? Ingrown hair follicles when your teens start to shave? Do you worry about tonsilitis? Appendicitis? Possible broken bones throughout the course of life?

It's all a part of growing up. But you're being conditioned by your family to see a problem where there is no problem - to them the foreskin is "unknown" and "scary", like a bomb waiting to explode. It's no more scary than any other part of the human anatomy.

Quote:

These are things I don't think I would worry about if he were circumcised.
No, you're right. You can't worry about ingrown toenails if you have no toenails, so of course you wouldn't worry about separation pain and smegma pearls if there was no foreskin. But..... (see part in bold below)

Quote:

I have my father constantly telling me I made the wrong decision and reminding me that there are 3 men he knows that had circumcisions performed later in life due to recurrent infections.
And I would tell my father that the topic is not up for discussion. I would also tell him that 80% of the world's men are intact and how is it they aren't falling over dead from disease and infection? Maybe he doesn't realize that Americans are the only ones who culturally circumcise.

Quote:

My grandfather is not circumcised and he too tells me that he thinks I made the wrong decision for my son because he wishes every day that he were circumsised.
And I would tell my grandfather that he's a grown man and go on and GET circumcised then and quit moping about it.

Quote:

but I feel like there is nothing to learn about a circumsised one. After it's healed, there are never really any problems.
You don' have to worry about seperation or developement, or redness and soreness and all these other things that you all claim are "normal" about an intact penis.
*Circumcision brings with it its own source of problems. If you circumcised him, and researched the harms of circumcision later, you might be worrying about tons of other things.

Will he develop an infection in the hospital? Will he get MRSA? It's becoming more common in circumcised boys, after all. Will he bleed to death unnoticed since there's always a diaper covering him? Will he have problems nursing?

And then later: Meatal stenosis. Will his urethra scar closed? Will he have to have surgery later? And often repeat surgeries - 10% of circumcised boys have meatal stenosis. Will he be one of them in the next several years?

What about while it's healing? Will the "leftover" skin reattach? Will my doctor forcefully tear it off his glans? Will it bleed? How long will it be raw and tender after it's ripped back apart again? Will it hurt when he has erections? Will it keep reattaching? Will they tell me he needs to be recircumcised?

Will he develop "buried penis?"

And still later: Will he have any sexual problems due to his circumcision? Was too much skin taken off? Will the skin be pulled too tight and hurt? Will the skin pull too tight on just one side causing his penis to twist or bend? Will he have skin bridges, skin tags, etc? Will his circumcision cause hair to pull up onto his shaft, causing more friction for his partner? Will he eventually be one of the men who needs erectile help? (Granted, you won't be actively worrying about this stuff then, because he'll be a man, but these are real problems and most men have no idea they are related to their circumcisions.)*

In the end, just remind yourself that YOUR SON is NOT the first person to have a foreskin. Men have lived with them for thousands and thousands of years. Only in the last few decades did we start taking them off, and even now most men still have them.

They are normal, natural, and easy to care for. And I would stop the talk in your family PRONTO before they really mess up your son's self image.


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## leaveit2beeker (Jun 2, 2009)

I also have wondered in the past if we should have circ'ed our son, but not due to family pressures and criticism. Ds' foreskin is not normally developed and required a consult with a urologist in the hospital before release and another consult at one year old. It's been deemed a cosmetic defect and while initially we were steadfast in our decision not to undergo unnecessary surgery, we have now become worried about the complications of his development through puberty and beyond. I mean, here's a kid that is intact amongst many (assumed) circ'ed boys, with the added pressure of looking 'different'. So I often thought about circ just to relieve some of those far-away self-esteem concerns.

But I never, ever considered that a circ'd penis is easier or less worrisome that an intact penis. I've worked in a surgery center where a many circ-correction surgery took place (ie, meatal stenosis). Please don't think that circumcision will alleviate any worries about UTI's or proper development...circ is not a guarantee or protection from _anything_.

Like a PP mentioned, you've left the decision up to your son. You should be proud of yourself!! I know that if my ds comes to me one day and thinks circumcision is necessary, I'll have a hard time but I will accept it. Hopefully you can come to this point of view too.


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## Kailey's mom (Apr 19, 2007)

Something to think about: We, as woman, have so much more extra skin than any male. Why in the world would intact men be more prone to UTI's and why is there such a negitive stigma about uncut men when we, the woman, have more skin than they do.

My dh is intact. He's never had smegma, an infection, or any issues. There is no special care needed. I think you are worrying about things that are more "stereotypes" and not reality kwim.

(hugs) it will be fine.


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

The circumcised penis is very very far from trouble free.

First you have the initial risks of the surgery, the most common one is severe bleeding. Which is more common than UTI's in intact boys.
There is the initial period of healing with wound dressing changes and worries of infection
Next you need to worry about adhessions.
Then starting at around 3 yo and through early childhood there is about 10% chance of meatal stenosis in circumcised boys.
Finally there are the effects only adult men need to think about, such as hair being pulled up onto the shaft during errections, lack of sensation, smaller size on average than intact men, etc.
I would just stop worrying about all these looming _problems_ you are being warned about. (I know a lot easier to say than do, but really true.) Let's do a quick look at all these worries you have.

The first one was abut UTIs. If we take these non-randomized studies at face value. The studies that indicated an increased risk of UTI for intact boys show it *only in the first year*. Since your DS is nearly 2 yo the period in question is over. Another study showed that most of these intact boys getting UTIs had urinary tract anomalies that were caught early b/c of the UTIs. Circumcised boy were just as likely to have these anomalies but were less likely to have them diagnosed and treated early. Remember this was only a 1% chance, compared to a 2% chance of bleeding or infection directly from the surgery and then other later risks such as a 10% chance of meatal stenosis or the even greater risk of adhesions. In comparison UTIs are easy to treat.

The biggest risk associated with separation is that someone will think it's a problem when it isn't. If there is minor pain and swelling with it, it will clear up on it's own in 24-48 hrs. However, most of the time it just happens with hardly anything happening. The story of DS's separation is amazingly uneventful:


> One day I found some whitish stuff in his underwear
> 
> 
> 
> ...


DS's experience with this is much much more common than the swelling, redness, pain and stuff.

If he ever does have an actual problem with his foreskin, the absolutely worst case scenario is that he will need to be circumcised. Which is very rare, rarer than needing surgery to correct a problem arising from being circumcised as an infant. Since that is the absolutely worst thing that could possibly result from not circumcising your DS, what exactly does circumcising right off the bat prevent? It just has you take the most drastic course as you very very first step.


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## kittywitty (Jul 5, 2005)

Well, a good reminder would be to talk to the large number of circumcised boys/men who have had serious damage done (beyond the obvious). My son could tell you about the joy of ripping open his meatus when it fuses together due to his circ.

You made this decision because you want the best for your son after knowing why circ. is wrong. I applaud you and wish I had known as much. We all worry about making the wrong decision about something or other...I wouldn't dwell.


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## muttmom92 (Mar 20, 2005)

Other people have stated things very well, but I will just add another voice to it. I don't really understand what you are going through because I am so thankful that I learned the horrors of circ. and kept my son intact. He is 3 and so far has had NO problems.

Only the people who are having problems are going to post questions. People don't come on here to post "My son had another uneventful day being intact." I'm not saying that to be snarky, just to remind you that the percentage of people having problems is probably really low compared to all the people not having any issues.

My father, one of my brother's and my BIL are all intact. I haven't talked to my dad about it but I've never heard of any issues from him. My brother and BIL are both very happy they were kept intact.

I really don't understand your grandfather's arguement. If he's so unhappy being intact, why hasn't he gotten circumcised?

Your son is fine. Relax.


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

It sounds like more research would help relieve those fears.

MRSA Infection of Circumcised Boys:
http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi.../DOC/mrsa.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ubmed_RVDocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ubmed_RVDocSum

Circumcision does not prevent UTI/ Circumcision may also cause UTI:
http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/UTI/altschul/

Circumcision causing uti:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...t=AbstractPlus

http://www.circumstitions.com/Utis.html

http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/UTI/goldman/

Flesh Eating Disease, Meningitis, HPV, herpes and others increased with circumcision:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...=pubmed_docsum

http://www.infocirc.org/fourn.htm (very graphic)

http://www.cirp.org/library/complications/scurlock1/

http://www.ispub.com/ostia/index.php...meningitis.xml

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/j...TRY=1&SRETRY=0

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/j...10265/abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...RVAbstractPlus

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ubmed_RVDocSum

Carcinoma developed in circumcision scars on the penile shaft.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...t_uids=3944860

The tumors involved the prepuce (n = 1), prepuce and distal shaft (n = 1), circumcision scar line (n = 2), circumcision scar line and distal shaft (

http://journals.lww.com/ajsp/pages/a...&type=abstract

Circumcision increases infant mortality because some babies die from complications of circumcision.37 Studies show that intact boys have better penile health during the first three years of life.39,40 Other drawbacks and disadvantages include psychological and sexual problems in adult life.40
http://www.drmomma.org/2009/12/effec...cision-on.html

This page with illustrations demonstrates the functions of the male prepuce:

http://www.circumcision.org/foreskin.htm

Here is another page, written by Dr. Peter Ball, on the function of the foreskin:

http://www.norm-uk.org/function.html

This page is my favourite, as it is most accurate due to showing real photos and slides to demonstrate how the foreskin works:

http://www.noharmm.org/anatomy.htm

Here is the study showing pain in neonates led to reduced opioid receptors in the brain (decreased pain sensitivity in adulthood):
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0927130048.htm

A circumcised penis is much more troublesome, not only during the initial period where the baby is at risk of fatal complications such as bleeding, MRSA or other infection, etc, but also throughout his entire life.

Adhesions, regrowth, buried penis, stenosis, scarring...all of these can begin in early childhood and require medical attention. They bring pain, risk of infection, additional effort and might even require _another_ circumcision surgery.

As he reaches and goes through puberty, growth of the penile shaft might cause extreme pain, especially if he has an American-style circumcision where much of the foreskin is removed. Scrotum skin might stretch onto his penile shaft as it grows, causing his penile shaft to have hair and odd looking skin that can be embarrassing and uncomfortable. This lack of foreskin might also cause his penis to bend and that can cause pain and embarrassment as well.

As an adult, he is missing a vital part of his sexual anatomy, so his sexual performance and sensations are permanently missing. Additionally, he might experience sexual dysfunctions such as erectile dysfunction, painful intercourse and his partner will be affected by the missing skin that provides gliding action and pressure against her clitoris.

As he reaches his midlife, those little pains and sexual losses will sometimes turn into big pains. This is incidentally, when many men start to restore coverage of the glans in an attempt to reverse the damage done from exposing the sensitive glans to the outer world for their entire life. They try to stretch any remaining skin so that it comes down and covers the penile shaft to protect the glans from dryness and irritation.

---------------------------

So here is some information to delve into:

What is the foreskin? Here is a medical school lecture on the foreskin:
http://redirectingat.com/?id=848X156...TSC_256k_D.wmv

Complications as an adult

http://www.cps.ca/english/statements/FN/fn96-01.htm

http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...rells_2007.pdf
(study published in the April 2007 issue of the British Journal of Urology, demonstrating that the five most sensitive areas of the penis are on the foreskin, and that the most sensitive area of the circumcised penis is on the circ scar)

http://tinyurl.com/2h69us (study from Korea, where the vast majority of men undergo elective circumcisions as adults, demonstrating that a significant majority experienced less sexual satisfaction after circumcision)

http://www.math.missouri.edu/~rich/MGM/blog/

http://www.circumstitions.com/Complic.html (adults with lasting circ complications)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...t=AbstractPlus
Effect of neonatal circumcision on penile neurologic sensation. Bleustein CB, Fogarty JD, Eckholdt H, Arezzo JC, Melman A. "In the dysfunctional group, circumcised men (49 +/- 16 years) were significantly younger (P <0.01) than uncircumcised men (56 +/- 13 years)."

Foreskin:

Observe for yourself the mobility of a real foreskin with these moving gifs:
http://tinyurl.com/38wvfp

The three zones of penile skin:
http://www.foreskin.org/3zones-c.htm

The functions of the foreskin:
http://research.cirp.org/func1.html

Circumcision:

Contrast and compare pictures of cut and uncut penises:
http://www.circumstitions.com/Restric/comparison.html

Baby Circumcision Photo Collection:
http://tinyurl.com/3523bz

An excellent comprehensive overview with pictures:
http://wreckingboy.livejournal.com/318545.html

What is lost due to circumcision?
http://www.norm.org/lost.html

Circumcision's Medical History:

Historical Circumcision Quotes in medical journals by doctors:
http://www.sexuallymutilatedchild.org/shorthis.htm

Histories of Circumcision in USA, Australia and Britain:
http://www.historyofcircumcision.net/

A doctor summarizes circumcision's modern history:
From birthpsychology.org -- http://tinyurl.com/2q3lo6

UTIs
http://www.infocirc.org/uti2.htm

Risks and Complications
http://www.circumcisionquotes.com/complications.html
http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/safety/circumcision.html (clamping methods)
http://www.infocirc.org/fourn.htm (plastibell)
http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/169/3/216 (plastibell)

Breastfeeding
http://www.nocirc.org/statements/breastfeeding.php
http://www.cirp.org/library/birth/

Cancer
http://www.cirp.org/library/statemen...s/1996-02_ACS/

Intact vs Circed penis care
http://www.nocirc.org/publish/4pam.pdf
http://www.nocirc.org/publish/5pam.pdf
http://www.cirp.org/library/normal/

Hygiene&problems
http://www.cirp.org/library/complications/vanhowe/

Won't it Have to be Done Later?
http://www.mothering.com/articles/ne...uncircson.html

Pain
http://www.cirp.org/library/pain/
http://www.circumcision.org/response.htm
http://www.infocirc.org/babypain.htm
http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...full/100/4/626


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## emnic77 (Sep 12, 2009)

In short, I don't spend any time at all worrying about my intact ds's penis. Not anymore time than I spent worrying about my dd getting labial adhesions, or yeast infections, or UTIs. I just don't. I've never worried about it, I've never had a concern (except for when a stupid doctor tried to retract him once) and it occupies no space in my head.

I think people get it into their heads that they are doing something really radical and dangerous by leaving their son intact, when really, you're just leaving him normal. There's no reason to spend time worrying about it, really.


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## KristyDi (Jun 5, 2007)

There are people much more qualified than I to answer your other concerns and I see they've given you lots to read and think on. I just wanted to respond to one thing. I skimmed the other posts so I'm sorry if this has been said already.

Quote:

My grandfather is not circumcised and he too tells me that he thinks I made the wrong decision for my son because he wishes every day that he were circumsised.
Well his foreskin can't be too much of a bother to him because all he has to do to get rid of it is call the dr. and set up an appointment to undergo the same surgery he wants you to have preformed on your DS. He could have chosen to be circumcised at any point in his adult life and yet he's chosen to remain intact long enough that he's become a grandfather. You've allowed your son to make the same decision for himself.


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## HeliMom (Jan 14, 2010)

My husband is one of 3 sons who were all intact as children. His younger brother made the decision at 18 to be circumcised. My husband and his older brother on the other hand are grateful for being whole.

The thing about it with my BIL is as an adult he got to make the choice about his body on his own. Maybe one day your son will decide he want to get a cosmetic surgery on his penis, or maybe he will become an intactivist. I think it's important that you respect that your child will come to their own decision and as of right now cannot give consent.


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## Bm31 (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~NewMa~* 
My main reason for feeling like I wish he had been is because I feel like the boys who are circumcised, although there is a window of time after the procedure where there is concern about infection, that is the only time they really have to worry about the penis and it's developement.

I don't find this to be true at all. In real life (not on the net), I know of more situations where circ'd boys/men (4, 5 including myself) had to be recirc'd due due to botched circ's than intact guys (8) that had to be circ'd (none!). Two of the intact guys didn't fully retract until their early 20's and say it's sometimes a bit senstitive still, but that's really one of the benefits because they still have plenty of time to get use to it and will appreciate having some of the sensation when they hit their 40's that many cut guys have lost. Other than that, to a person, none of them can recall having issues or "problems" growing up and really can't see what everyone thinks the big scary deal is about having a foreskin. I only know of one guy that chose to have a later circ at 15, not because of any problem but because of a perceived peer pressure that turned out to not exist. While he's not hugely regretful (mostly because he knows it's a done-deal now), he says he will freely advise anyone else considering it to not do it!

I would tell grandpa that the grass isn't always greener on the other side, and if he's really that serious there are any number of docs who would be willing to rid him of his fore$kin.

Just relax; you did right by your son!


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## ~NewMa~ (Nov 20, 2007)

thank you for all the responses so far.
Claddaghmom, you have given me so much information! Thank you for taking the time to educate me.
I feel kindof foolish for worrying about it so much. I can't help it








I guess if he were circ'd I'd be worrying about that too.
I didn't realize all the complications of the circ'd penis, I guess cause most circ'd men don't realize that some of their discomforts and abnormalities are a result of this process.
You've all given me a lot to think about and arm myself with.
Thank you for being understanding and respectful with your responses!
I feel ashamed for having doubted myself, but I'm glad I came here to voice my concerns.
I do feel better.


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~NewMa~* 
thank you for all the responses so far.
Claddaghmom, you have given me so much information! Thank you for taking the time to educate me.
I feel kindof foolish for worrying about it so much. I can't help it








I guess if he were circ'd I'd be worrying about that too.
I didn't realize all the complications of the circ'd penis, I guess cause most circ'd men don't realize that some of their discomforts and abnormalities are a result of this process.
You've all given me a lot to think about and arm myself with.
Thank you for being understanding and respectful with your responses!
I feel ashamed for having doubted myself, but I'm glad I came here to voice my concerns.
I do feel better.









Don't feel bad about questioning. Questioning things is what leads you to make sound, researched decisions that will eradicate fear.

Of course, on some level, we'll always fret over our babies.


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## Crunchy Frog (Aug 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~NewMa~* 
but I feel like there is nothing to learn about a circumsised one. After it's healed, there are never really any problems.
You don' have to worry about seperation or developement, or redness and soreness and all these other things that you all claim are "normal" about an intact penis.

That is a really major misconception that you are laboring under. You might want to try hanging around the mainstream boards and see some of the stuff those moms go through with their sons "problem free" circed penises.

Those boards are absolutely packed with accounts of adhesions, often that get painfully ripped apart at every doctor's visit; the necessity to apply vaseline at evey diaper change, for months or even for years on end to prevent said adhesions; the boys with hidden or buried penis (so common that it's simply regarded as a variation on the "normal". And then there are the boys who end up needing some sort of corrective surgery, usually under general anesthetic. To say nothing of the boys who later go on to develop meatal stenosis.

You made the right decision, but you are still a product of your cultural conditioning as we probably all are to some extent (I panicked the first time one of my boys got a little bit of redness at the tip). We've all been taught to think of the foreskin as some sort of ticking timebomb, and that view is being constantly reinforced by your family.

I think you just need to step back a little bit and get some perspective. You also need to look at the bad stuff that really does happen with these "maintenance free" circed penises.


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## BaMo (Mar 19, 2006)

Many others have posted some great information (that I too will brush up on!), so I won't touch on that. If you aren't used to being around an intact boy/man, then it does take some getting used too.

Also, I hang out on one other mainstream board (not a huge one, but it has its own parenting section). There are have been a ton of threads over there about circ complications - including having to recirc due to the first circ "not taking."

I think that over time, you will find that the fear you have will lessen and you will (hopefully) feel more confident about the great decision you made.


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## billikengirl (Sep 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crunchy Frog* 
You made the right decision, but you are still a product of your cultural conditioning as we probably all are to some extent (I panicked the first time one of my boys got a little bit of redness at the tip). We've all been taught to think of the foreskin as some sort of ticking timebomb, and that view is being constantly reinforced by your family.

I think this is so true. I am 100% sure about my decision to leave DS intact but I find that I still worry because my son is not what I was taught to believe is the norm.


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## To-Fu (May 23, 2007)

And although you didn't mention this in your list of concerns, I wanted to mention that I think you've done the right thing by leaving this cosmetic decision up to your son.

Everyone else has already given you a ton of information to consider, but I wanted to direct you also to the stickied resources at the top of the main TCAC forum page. There might be something there that will help put your mind at ease, too.

Don't feel ashamed for coming here to ask for input as you are questioning things. That's what TCAC is for, and I'm glad you felt like you could post here. Hang in there, and keep reading!


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## Grace and Granola (Oct 15, 2005)

I just can't believe that there is all this penis talk going on the OP family! Especially among the men. The topic of my son's penis has never been discussed with anyone in our family, and I have both intact and circ'd males on my side of the family. My MIL is probably the only one who regularly changed my 2 ds's dipes, and although she is extremely conservative, has never mentioned or questioned our sons' penises. I would find a way to firmly put this issue to rest in the family. It's been TWO YEARS!


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## mntnmom (Sep 21, 2006)

Sometimes it seems like you always have to worry about the intact penis, because the only time you hear about them is when there is a problem. Circ' problems are almost never discussed as *circ* problems, just as normal penis problems.
The only time I have the slightest concern for my intact boys, is when we see a new pediatrician. Normal activity, like your son touching it etc. will NOT introduce infection.
I think the attitude of your family and larger society is getting to you, which is completely understandable. You seem to be working under the assumption that foreskins are inherently dirty and problematic. It just isn't true. 80% or more of men in the world live their entire lives with their foreskins. Childhood tugging, adolescent exploration, and later sexual activity go on in countries and cultures with much lower standards of hygiene than we have in the States. Yet, those men, as well those in a lot of developed nations manage just fine!!


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

I'm in the UK. Without exception, every single boy i know under 5 is intact. I know circ'd adults, but only 3 or 4 IRL.

Of all those boys who are all intact, i know their mothers and families. We never talk or think about their penises. Never. NONE of them regret doing what is culturally normal to us - leaving their boys whole. It must be so hard not doing what is _considered_ normal, even if what the default of that is is nature's normal. But really, you don't need to worry so much about his penis. Do you worry about him generally? Or just over this issue?

Next time grandpa mentions circ'ing i'd give him the number of a good surgeon - it's his penis, why doesn't he get it done if he hates his foreskin so much!?


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## eko_mom (Jan 30, 2007)

Thanks for bringing this up because I am loving all the wonderful replies, even though I feel great about not circing our son.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~NewMa~* 
I have my father constantly telling me I made the wrong decision and reminding me that there are 3 men he knows that had circumcisions performed later in life due to recurrent infections.
My grandfather is not circumcised and he too tells me that he thinks I made the wrong decision for my son because he wishes every day that he were circumsised.

I heard this from a great uncle. I'd say that cultural conditioning is playing the biggest part here with how they feel. All the messages about "dirty" and all that growing up for themselves. I think things are different now and how you interact with your son about his body can be a lot more empowering. I'd say, as a pp did, thank you, but that's it. End of discussion. Period. Be confident in yourself, proud of your decision and help your son be proud of his body. Stop being so worried about germs, and dirtiness, and not letting him touch himself and transmitting those feelings to him.


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## isabchi (Sep 14, 2006)

Circ. or Non, Boy or Girl... some things that you can do to prevent UTI's.:
Clean diapers (minimum to not contact of fecal with the penis), non use of soap in the genitals, take care of the diet: lots of probiotics, low sugar & processed food.

Take care and relax about your decision!


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## kittywitty (Jul 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heatherb917* 
I just can't believe that there is all this penis talk going on the OP family! Especially among the men. The topic of my son's penis has never been discussed with anyone in our family, and I have both intact and circ'd males on my side of the family. My MIL is probably the only one who regularly changed my 2 ds's dipes, and although she is extremely conservative, has never mentioned or questioned our sons' penises. I would find a way to firmly put this issue to rest in the family. It's been TWO YEARS!

I agree. Other than when my ds had to have a meatotomy, this never came up. Even when we didn't know if we were having a boy/girl. It's just never ever been discussed. Even in my Jewish family. It was expected since everyone else did, but it wasn't *discussed* or asked.


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## Friday13th (Jun 13, 2006)

I think it's really common in our society to view an intact penis like some kind of a ticking time-bomb. Doctors certainly do, that's why circ is so frequently recommended as a solution to totally normal issues.

Just remember that you left your son the way he's supposed to be and his body is functioning the way nature intended it and the way men all through time and all over the world's bodies function.


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## To-Fu (May 23, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mntnmom* 
Sometimes it seems like you always have to worry about the intact penis, because the only time you hear about them is when there is a problem. Circ' problems are almost never discussed as *circ* problems, just as normal penis problems.

I think this observation is pretty spot-on.


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## KGB (Jan 30, 2010)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *To-Fu* 
I think this observation is pretty spot-on.

I second that.


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## ryansma (Sep 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~NewMa~* 
thank you for all the responses so far.
Claddaghmom, you have given me so much information! Thank you for taking the time to educate me.
I feel kindof foolish for worrying about it so much. I can't help it








I guess if he were circ'd I'd be worrying about that too.
I didn't realize all the complications of the circ'd penis, I guess cause most circ'd men don't realize that some of their discomforts and abnormalities are a result of this process.
You've all given me a lot to think about and arm myself with.
Thank you for being understanding and respectful with your responses!
I feel ashamed for having doubted myself, but I'm glad I came here to voice my concerns.
I do feel better.

My older son is circ'd (my younger is not) and his foreskin started to readhere and had to be ripped open. It was horrible. It is a misconception that circ'd penis' are maintenance free.


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## TanyaS (Jun 24, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~NewMa~* 
*After it's healed, there are never really any problems.*
You don' have to worry about seperation or developement, or redness and soreness and all these other things that you all claim are "normal" about an intact penis.

I regret circing my son. He now has a skin bridge that will probably have to be removed. He is 8 and we have talked about it ever since he told us it hurt. Dirt had gotten under the adhesion and caused it to hurt. It was a very minor thing, but enough that I started looking into it and found it is very likely it will have to be removed. I spoke with him about having it fixed and the terror in his response has made me wait and see. I repeatedly tell him that no matter how embarrassed he might be about it when he's older that he has to tell us if something is wrong.

My point is there is no guarantee on anything. Not circing is the least risky of the two options. My son will probably have to have more surgery because of our decision and it makes me sick at the thought.


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## ProtoLawyer (Apr 16, 2007)

Thanks for posting this--it sums up my worries pretty well. We're not going to circumcise, but I grew up in a Jewish family (I don't practice) and, well, they're not taking it well (though I'm not the trailblazer--my cousin left her son intact, but I'm getting more guff because "well, your cousin's husband is not Jewish and I've been told HE's not circumcised so it's OK because he looks like Daddy--your husband isn't Jewish but is he circumcised?" Um, that's none of your business, Grandma, and if my son were to "look like Daddy," we'd also have to put GLASS in his left eye and scar up his forehead and no one would ask us to do that.)

I don't really WANT to be an activist. I don't WANT to have to defend my choices and remind everyone about retraction and include detailed instructions (when really, "just leave it alone" is the only instruction needed) for babysitters and day care, or have my son's penis be the topic of conversation on a regular basis, or be reminded by Grandma why my 30-year-old cousin broke up with her last boyfriend (because she could not get beyond the fact he was intact. Oh, and because he was actually married and didn't tell her).

(My family doctor is German and very AP friendly--her name comes up on the Finding Your Tribe area occasionally--so I'm not worried about problems there, at least.)

Perhaps it's just what I'm reading here. Maybe most of the rest of the uncircumcised world just goes about their business without incident. But it seems like rather than making a choice against cosmetic surgery I'm making a choice to have to be constantly vigilant.

(Don't worry, I'm not changing my mind, and my husband's fully on board, even though he is indeed circumcised himself--in fact, he was the one who broached the subject years ago. But I just want to be left alone.)


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## nd_deadhead (Sep 22, 2005)

NewMa, I'm glad you came here with your concerns. It's perfectly natural to second-guess your parenting decisions - my twin boys are 15, and I do it all the time!

But I do NOT regret leavng their penises alone. And ever since they learned about circumcision when they were 8 years old, they have been thankful as well. We live in an area with a high circumcision rate, but our boys have no idea if their friends are intact or not - they don't look, they don't discuss it.

I feel terrible that your family is giving you a hard time. Maybe you can mention that a lot of things have changed since they were new parents? We put our kids in car seats, we put them to sleep on their backs, we support breastfeeding.

Hugs to you!!

Protolawyer, I loved you response to the "llok like Daddy" comments. You are so exactly right! My DH doesn't have scars or a glass eye, but he has dark hair, brown eyes and a mustache, to my sons' blond hair, blue eyes and baby faces. These very obvious differences have not had any sort of negative impact on their relationship! I've always maintained that if a man wants his genitals to match his infant son's, he should shave his pubic hair and pack ice in his shorts.

My suggestion for your family when they bring it up is to smile, thank them for their input, and change the subject. "Grandma, I appreciate your concern for my son's well-being. Did I tell you about the new stroller we got from Aunt Doris?"


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## tutucrazy (Dec 30, 2008)

You shouldn't worry about your son's foreskin having problems. Most "problems" you encounter with intact boys is actually when a doctor sees a "problem" where none exists. Also, separation symptoms are not problems. Separation is a natural process and how the foreskin develops in intact mammals. There might be some symptoms but those come and go and don't require any special treatment. Infections are very rare and usually only occur with injury to the penis. As for UTI, those studies were BS and even if you believe them it only applied to the first year of life. UTIs are far more common to girls. As for yeast, that happens to both boys and girls, actually more common to girls. After the diaperwearing years they aren't as common. Simply taking probiotics during and after taking any antibiotics easily avoids yeast infection in all children. Here are some more links you should check out:

Phony Phimosis Diagnosis
http://www.drmomma.org/2010/01/phony...diagnosis.html

Development and Care of Intact Children:
http://www.drmomma.org/2010/01/basic...act-child.html

I think that there are a high level of posts on her concerning separation symptoms and retraction, simply b/c this is one of the ONLY places where there are a large group of parents who are highly educated to the normal development of the intact boy. Also, this forum pops up first on almost all foreskin related google searches.


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## pumpkinhead (Sep 15, 2003)

I have 2 intact sons and outside of a little redness here and there, neither have ever had any issues related to their foreskins. They have never had UTIs either. I also have never had an issue with them being forcibly retracted.

Most boys don't ever have issues. I read just as much online about circ'd boys having trouble with adhesions and doctors forcibly removing those adhesions, having to use steriod creams due to problems having to do with adhesions and tightness.

Bottom line, if we started removing organs due to problems that might arise down the road, we'd be left with no organs. There isn't a part of our body that isn't a potential target for disease or injury, but if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I understand worrying. I am a mother as well. That is what we do







. I think you need to stop taking your parents/friends concerns to heart. There really isn't any cause for concern.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

It is only questioned by those that are from a circing culture, and that is mainly due to the lack of experience with the normalcy of the intact penis.


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## Galatea (Jun 28, 2004)

It's cultural brainwashing that makes circing seem normal and the intact penis seem difficult. Both of my sons are intact and we haven't had a single problem. I don't watch them for smegma pearls or what have you, and I definitely don't try to stop them from touching themselves! (That would be pretty fruitless at the ages of 6 and 4, anyway.) It's a non-issue.

Second, I would not put up with any questioning from family or friends about your child's genitals. That's just weird.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I just want to reiterate what others have said. I have two intact boys, and the only foreskin problem I've ever seen was when one of them got his caught in a Rubik's cube.


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## pumpkinhead (Sep 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I just want to reiterate what others have said. I have two intact boys, and the only foreskin problem I've ever seen was when one of them got his caught in a Rubik's cube.

First reaction OUCH!

Second reaction


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pumpkinhead* 
First reaction OUCH!

Second reaction









Oh, I know. The poor kid was howling and every adult in the room was trying _so_ hard not to laugh. He was a _lot_ more careful about what he played with when naked after that!


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## MacKinnon (Jun 15, 2004)

I don't post here often, but this thread caught my eye. One of the PP said, "people don't just stop in here to note that their son had another uneventful non-circed day." That is exactly why I don't post here!









My DS is 3 and intact, we have never had a problem. I have two close friend with intact sons, both of which have not had problems. However, one of my friends sons recently had a botched circ, leaving an un-finished surgery behind for 6 months, then another to correct it, and another likely soon... My brother is 27 and intact, as is my father (who is European). I talked with my brother before we firmly decided not to circ and he said not only has he never wished he was, he is very glad he is NOT, that he was never teased, and it was never an issue. And my brother did have some childhood issues with smegma build-up, etc. but it wasn't an issue once my mom found a doc who didn't push her to have him circed to deal with it.

I remember reading on here once to just think of DS's uncirced penis like the tip of your finger, and the reminder that we don't freak out if our DD's have red or irritated vulva's, that those things happen. Those two pieces of sage advice helped me stop fussing, and to accept my sons body as normal, and that I was able to care for it.


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## Seie (Jun 9, 2005)

I haven't read all the replies, so I may say stuff that has already been mentioned.

I live in Europe and hardly anyone I know is circed that I know of. It was only after I started to come to discussion boards and forums that I realised that it is normal to circ boys in the US and I was shocked. After that I started coming here and doing my tiny bit to stop it from happening.
I too have read all the posts about redness etc and I have never ever encountered these problems in real life. Here really intact is a non-issue. I don't know anyone who has ever told me about having problems with their intact sons and it never even occured to me that there even COULD be problems till I started coming here. I have three children and I am in touch with an awful lot of mothers, daycare employees etc and the discussion of foreskin just never comes up cause it is a non-issue. It's just how penises are. The only times I have entered into discussions about the matter in real life is when I have brought it up myself. I spoke to a lady at my sons daycare about it as they have an occational circ'ed kid (usually with a different cultural background) and she has never seen foreskin problems in real life.
The whole issue of retraction really doesn't come up at all, as it's just another non-issue. You just don't mess around with your sons penis beyond normal washing - period. Whatever he does with it himself is his business really and you can trust that he wont do anything to hurt it.

I really really think your worries largely come from being in an environment where circ is the norm. Try to let it all go and rather than think about the possible problems that could occur, think of the fact that so far nothing has happened. Your son has a normal healthy penis and you have no reason to think that will change.


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## MamaChicken (Aug 21, 2006)

I think most of the important stuff is covered in previous posts, but think of it this way:

Say you are a breastfeeding mom in a formula feeding family. Let's say you have a baby who is in the 5% for growth compared to cousins who are 95% for growth. You would likely have the same questions from family, fears about his future growth, and regrets about your choice to breastfeed - even though you *know* you made the best choice.

This whole parenting thing is hard. We make the best decisions we can and that is all we can do.


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## needhelpplease (Sep 18, 2007)

OP, sounds like a purely psychological issue. Nothing has gone wrong with your son's foreskin, you just get worried something will, and then think it wouldn't happen if he were circumcised, and get yourself all stressed out about it. Just try to chill. Even if he gets a UTI or something it's not the foreskin's fault, and it's not the end of the world. You can't worry about things if they aren't happening...if you got or had got him circumcised would you stress out constantly in case he developed an adhesion? Meatal stenosis? Touched himself and instead of touching the foreskin, damaged his glans or urethra?

It's just cultural conditioning it seems, you have to tell yourself to let it go. You made the right choice and the chance of a problem is, as I said, unlikely and not the end of the world. I know a 21yo with phimosis and he never has pain or problems and can have sex and masturbate fine...he's got what some people would call a bad condition blah blah but he's absolutely fine (though I think it should still be dealt with, that's another issue). Also all the adults I've been with are intact and never had a problem and are happy...that's the norm!


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## stacyann_1 (May 25, 2004)

Thread seems a bit old, but wanted to add I have been feeling this way also about my 5 year old. He tells me often that at school that ALL the other boys look different and they look at him and have even noticed he looks different. This shocks me a bit, I had always told my (intact) husband there will be other boys the same as him, as it is becoming more common in the US. My husband feels his confidence would be better in adolescence if he was circ'd he might have even played sports he says.

Also just recently my son had an infection, was so painful for him, first time he saw me cry, i felt horrible. But it cleared up quickly with bacitracin. We have a newer nanny and she didn't remind him to clean at bath with water (he is mostly retracting now, but some still attached.) so now he is rinsing every day at bath pulling back a little and putting under running water.

Also, I am not suspicious of studies in reputable journals and on pubmed, and some are showing less chance of infection passing with circ'd boys (hiv,hsv, hpv) but i have always said in my mind, any boy is in trouble if they are depending on being circ'd to prevent an STD, this is not safe sex anyway. this thread does help, reminding me if he really wants it at some point when he is older he can make that decision (wheras my husband never felt that was a choice)

plus my husband alwasy says it is SO painful to have it done when older, is this true? i mean just because a child doesn't remember doesn't mean it was less painful. if a person gets alzheimers, doesn't mean when they broke their knee 40 years ago it didn't hurt..

Just to let you know i think about it all, but still wonder sometimes if all would be easier if i had done it. also i know no one IRL that has had problems either way, except one older man who had it done in the army because he was getting infections.


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## drs0410 (Dec 3, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MacKinnon*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Stopping in to say my intact son had another uneventful non-circed day. Now someone has stopped in to say that.


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## JulianneW (Dec 17, 2010)

When my brother was little probably about 5 he noticed that him and his cousin looked different. He asked my mom why they looked different to which she replied "when your cousin was a baby the doctor cut part of his off". My little brother got a terrible look on his face and said "I'm glad the doctor didn't cut me".

As far as sports I think its a non issue my DH is intact and played sports from 5th grade through high school and never had any issues.

My brother is currently in HS and plays sports and he has never had an issue either.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emnic77*
> 
> In short, I don't spend any time at all worrying about my intact ds's penis. Not anymore time than I spent worrying about my dd getting labial adhesions, or yeast infections, or UTIs. I just don't. I've never worried about it, I've never had a concern (except for when a stupid doctor tried to retract him once) and it occupies no space in my head.
> 
> I think people get it into their heads that they are doing something really radical and dangerous by leaving their son intact, when really, you're just leaving him normal. There's no reason to spend time worrying about it, really.


Exactly!


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drs0410*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Very true. And the MOST uneventful non-circ'd day of his life was the day he didn't get cut because we didn't choose circumcision.


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drs0410*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Wow, we had another uneventful day too! Going on something like 1000 of them!


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## Cutie Patootie (Feb 29, 2004)

My family has never remotely commented on the fact that both of my ds are intact. I would actually be a bit disturbed if they did and I would try my hardest to make them feel pretty creepy about bringing it up. For goodness sakes, as a pp said, it's been 2 years! Stop thinking about my sons penis would you! I would also ask them why he was born with it if it wasn't needed. I mean, did any of your complaining relatives have their tonsils removed right after birth? How about their appendix? Gallbladder? You know those pesky organs can cause some painful and life threatening problems down the line for some. Why not just rid yourself of them right off? So silly, the thought process.







You followed your mama instincts and they are always right. Don't question them because of "peer pressure" and tell the old men in your family to get their minds off your sons penis! LOL His body, his choice.


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## Smokering (Sep 5, 2007)

Quote:


> Only the people who are having problems are going to post questions. People don't come on here to post "My son had another uneventful day being intact." I'm not saying that to be snarky, just to remind you that the percentage of people having problems is probably really low compared to all the people not having any issues.


Yup. Did you breastfeed? Look at the breastfeeding forums on MDC - they're chock-full of "problem" issues. Nipple pain, mastitis, concerns that the baby isn't gaining enough, worrying about milk production, low supply, oversupply... it certainly looks like breastfeeding is a fraught and hazardous enterprise! But for most of us, it's not - some people sail through the whole experience, and others (like me) have just one or two issues, but feel it's overwhelmingly worth it and the right choice nevertheless. But because of the nature of the forum, you don't get a true proportion of people saying "DD nursed 5 times today, it was fine, la la la" to counteract the problems and concerns. Nor do you get formula-feeding mothers with their questions and concerns and health scares. You know?

And the same can be said for the Family Bed forum, and the babywearing forum, and pretty much every forum we've got - Parents as Partners can be freaking depressing sometimes! So it's important to remember that people post when they have problems, not when things are going swimmingly. Which is why things like studies are very important, to put it all into perspective.

We're having a boy this June, who will be intact, like nearly all Kiwi boys. I honestly don't worry about his penis at all, any more than I worry about DD's parts - the culture here doesn't fearmonger about the foreskin, SIL has had no problems with her intact son, it's just... SO not an issue! I can imagine why you're worried with your family members carping at you all the time, though. And I think it's high time you told them firmly that they need never, EVER mention your son's penis again, because it is not up for discussion and frankly way out of line.


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## Galatea (Jun 28, 2004)

Smokering, you have a GREAT signature (even though I don't understand a few of them.)


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## AnnDMFT (Dec 18, 2010)

I totally understand what you mean.

I don't worry I've made the wrong decision, I worry that my son will be hurt by a doctor or nurse who doesn't know anything about foreskin.

I catch myself worried every single time I take him to the doctor that they will hurt him for no good reason other than their ignorance. I'm jealous that mom's of circ'ed boys never have to deal with this but I also, don't for a minute, regret doing it. It was the right thing to do. Sovereignty over your body is something that cannot be replaced.


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## Night_Nurse (Nov 23, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stacyann_1*
> 
> Also, I am not suspicious of studies in reputable journals and on pubmed, and some are showing less chance of infection passing with circ'd boys (hiv,hsv, hpv) ...
> 
> plus my husband alwasy says it is SO painful to have it done when older, is this true? i mean just because a child doesn't remember doesn't mean it was less painful. if a person gets alzheimers, doesn't mean when they broke their knee 40 years ago it didn't hurt..


I'm sorry you have mixed feeling sometimes but have you ever read through the thread here on MDC from all the moms who regret circing their sons? They feel really bad too but unfortunately, their situation can not change. At least your son does have the option of changing his status if he desires. In the meantime, it's easy to explain that all boys are different and the penis is no exception. Even with a room full of circed boys, they won't all look exactly the same. Same for intact boys. Is he bothered by the shape and color of different eyes? Skin color or body shape? With those things, most parents just explain that everyone is different and one isn't better than the other. If he's young and so worried about it, maybe just a simple explanation of "that was exactly how you were born, just like daddy was, that's how you're supposed to look" would help.

I do not believe most of the studies that say circ decreases infection. In the US we have a TON of men who are sexually active, circed and have std's. Many countries with a high intact rate have a much lower std rate than we do. Many intact nations also have a much more progressive sex education protocol than we do. Some school districts in the US teach abstinence only and won't discuss condoms or infections. I personally think that is why we have a high std rate. If circumcision really reduced std's, the US would have an almost non-existent rate of them.

As far as the pain goes, no, pain is pain. It is not less painful when done on an infant. Much of pain perception also has to do with fear. An adult knows what is happening and why. An infant doesn't. Plus, an adult gets nice narcotics for after the procedure. A child does not. A circ is worse for a baby because he pees and poops in his diaper and it gets on the open wound. Then mama wipes it off. All of that makes the pain worse.


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## Cyllya (Jun 10, 2009)

Quote:


> My main reason for feeling like I wish he had been is because I feel like the boys who are circumcised, although there is a window of time after the procedure where there is concern about infection, that is the only time they really have to worry about the penis and it's developement.


Some couples get lucky, but often male circumcision results in sexual pain for his female partner, especially as she gets older. (Google "Sex as Nature Intended" for more info about why.) This is not a problem that occurs with botched circumcisions, but normal successful circs. *The lack of a foreskin is a problem that will linger for the rest of his life.*


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Night_Nurse*
> 
> As far as the pain goes, no, pain is pain. It is not less painful when done on an infant. Much of pain perception also has to do with fear. An adult knows what is happening and why. An infant doesn't. Plus, an adult gets nice narcotics for after the procedure. A child does not. A circ is worse for a baby because he pees and poops in his diaper and it gets on the open wound. Then mama wipes it off. All of that makes the pain worse.


I've always suspected that an infant's circ is inherently more painful, because of the foreskin still being attached. I mean...it's going to hurt a lot to cut it off, but an infant also has the pain of having it torn free. I just...ugh...every time I think of that, I want to puke.


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## Night_Nurse (Nov 23, 2007)

That is true. Since the foreskin is attached in infancy but not usually by adulthood, they would have that forced separation in addition to the cutting.


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## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

I can understand how it can feel to be the "odd one out," and often AP/NFL moms stick out in some ways or more obvious ways (like being a breastfeeder in a room full of bottle feeders or breastfeeders who aren't comfy nursing in public, or objecting to the terrible snacks at preschool, etc.) Some of these issues go away after the very baby years, some of them still come up as kids get older. It can be hard to feel like an outsider around people who might think you're weird for doing or not doing xyz.

On the other hand -- put the shoe on the other foot, and pretend you were living in a society (in Africa, or some Muslim countries outside of Africa, for example) where most if not all girls get circumcised, ranging from very minor to extremely invasive and terribly wounding cutting. Would you feel as self-conscious about your choice to keep your daughter intact, even if she might notice a difference in the shower room or the public toilets or wherever else? Of course not, because my guess is you know as a woman the value of having all of your parts and you would never dream of subjecting yourself or your daughter to genital cutting for any reason whatsoever, whether hygiene, fitting in, etc.

Would you feel badly about not cutting her if she got an infection? Of course not, you'd get it treated, change up the hygiene routine as necessary, and just accept it as a normal part of life that kids get infected -- sometimes their fingers, sometimes their toenail, sometimes their ears or tonsils, sometimes their genitals. It happens. You can be sad for any pain they're going through but you can't cut off all the body parts that can get infected, because truly, just like fingers and toenails, the genitals are not optional, disposable body parts.

It really, truly is no different for boys. The amount of cutting you would have subjected your son to if you'd had him circumcised as a baby is just as bad as the vast majority of all female genital cutting types out there (most girls do not undergo the most damaging type). You'd have removed half the nerve endings of his penis and destroyed the foreskin's natural gliding action, permanently altering its structure and function. Can you imagine if half the nerve endings in your sensitive parts were gone?

It's really only in this country where we have this cultural, non-religious tradition of cutting baby boys that circumcision seems normal. If you step outside and imagine how you'd feel if it were your girl we were talking about -- I'm pretty sure that even if 100% of all families at her school circed their girls that you wouldn't go along with it, knowing what you know about your experiences and the realities of being an intact woman.

Please feel confident that you made the right decision (or non-decision, really) because the foreskin is not a bonus, extra, disposable body part, and the amount of harm you would have done to your son far, far, far outweighs any possible, transitory, non-essential "good" you might have done him in terms of fitting in socially.

(Oh and FYI my dh DID play sports from middle school through college and saw lots of intact as well as circed penises -- the rule was always don't look and above all don't comment! Even for a guy born in the late 60s in the Northeast, a very cut-happy part of the country, the locker room was simply a non-issue.)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stacyann_1*
> 
> Thread seems a bit old, but wanted to add I have been feeling this way also about my 5 year old. He tells me often that at school that ALL the other boys look different and they look at him and have even noticed he looks different. This shocks me a bit, I had always told my (intact) husband there will be other boys the same as him, as it is becoming more common in the US. My husband feels his confidence would be better in adolescence if he was circ'd he might have even played sports he says.
> 
> ...


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drs0410*
> 
> Stopping in to say my intact son had another uneventful non-circed day. Now someone has stopped in to say that.


Here too. My 15 year old son has never had any issues.


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## smeep (May 12, 2006)

I just read the OP, but I've no doubt that your worries have been explained with facts.

But I just wanted to say, remember that this is all because of the culture you have grown up in. Your worries are cultural, not factual...and that's fine! It's actually quite normal, especially when you learn that it's simply cultural. But the cultural aspect is very hard to overcome. Just keep reminding yourself, "It's not true. This was the right choice. DS will be fine, physically and mentally." Eventually you will start truly believing, deep down inside, what you know in your head. It just takes a little time for some people.


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## smeep (May 12, 2006)

...just saw this thread was old. Well, let my previous reply apply to other mamas feeling similarly!


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