# Do you allow toy guns in your home?



## artekah (Apr 26, 2009)

If so, why? If not, why not?

Or do you stand somewhere in the middle--like you allow them but have very strict rules about how/when they are used?

To give you an idea where I'm coming from, I currently have one 1.5-year-old DS, and a new baby due in July, so this issue hasn't really come up yet in a big way, and I'm trying to really figure out where I stand.

I am leaning towards a "no toy guns in our house" rule but I'm not totally hell-bent about it. I just don't think guns should be used as toys, ever, and I associate them with violence, war, crime, and all that nasty stuff.

My DH on the other hand was raised in the country. He associates guns with fun-in-the-sun, target practice, independence and developing skills, and at the very worst, self-defense or hunting for food. He has no problem with nerf guns, water pistols, or toy guns in any form. I really can appreciate where he's coming from but I am still uneasy with the idea of "toy" and "gun" ever going in the same sentence.

Tell me your thoughts so I can mull it over!


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## Momofplenty (Mar 20, 2011)

I grew up with water guns and "old western" type toy guns. But, with us being 4 girls and no boys, we didn't have an overabundance of them around. THAT SAID....

My first child is a boy and I strictly say no guns of any sorts. Not erasers that look like guns, not water guns, no games that have you shooting at people or animals, and no movies that depict any sort of hunting or shooting. I get a lot of grief over it and have had relatives try to sneak them when I am not around, but my children, all 4 of them, now know they don't play like that. Guns AREN'T toys. It's not funny to shoot someone, even with water, because shooting is violent. I hear from other moms that say their sons just play guns anyway, using their finger or sticks or whatever...but mine don't. They just know not to.

We are glad we have this going on for us. About 3 weeks ago, my husband's committed suicide and we dont have our kids constantly reminding us how he did it (they don't know, but just seeing guns on tv or even blood right now is understandably rough on both dh and I).
My opinion is guns are not toys, therefore, should not be used as toys. It's better to teach them to stay as far away as possible at all times. Forget this whole "oh let kids be kids" or "they need freedom to explore and learn" or even the "I will just teach them as they grow" because seriously, whats the freakin point in letting a kid play with something thats a replica of an aid to murder and suicide? there are better toys out there and theres no NEED to let them play like that.


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## Momofplenty (Mar 20, 2011)

Um...sorry, I know I just came off as royal biiiiotch.


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## hopefulfaith (Mar 28, 2005)

There have been some lengthy threads on this in the past, some of them quite passionate.

My dh and I are a lot like you and your dh: I am not anti-gun (I own a .22 I like to shoot at targets, though I don't hunt), but I was certainly not going to allow my *children* to play-act even something so dangerous. I would have preferred early childhood out of the Nova Naturals catalog, thank you very much. I had a no-gun policy until my ds was 4, which was as long as I could hold out: my dh is from a rural area where guns were a fact of life, he grew up hunting and "shootin' stuff" and all of the typical ******* stereotype activities you can imagine. 

When ds was 4, he started making things into guns: biting his toast into that shape and yelling POW POW POW! I tried swords to appease the interest in weaponry, which held us out for almost six months .... but I finally consented to a Nerf gun. I will not allow anything in the house that looks real, and Nerf guns are not "real-looking" to me. There are a whole host of rules which accompany the guns/darts, and for the most part, the kids are fine about them.

I should also note that dh is a law enforcement officer to boot, so ds/dd see him strap on a duty belt every morning, complete with gun & taser. It flew under their radars until ds was 5/dd was 4, and then they started asking questions. We're big on the gun safety teaching. In our area of the country, it is a fact of life - lots of kids around here start hunting around kindergarten-age, and ds is in the minority in his class in that we have not introduced him to that yet. I'm not quite there yet.

A lot of random thoughts here (sorry), but that's my position. I'm not passionately against any type of gun-sort of thing -- to deny guns is to shortchange my kids by not providing the conversation/discussion/teaching/framework for appropriate use that I think is necessary to put guns into context in our lives - which, as we live in a rural area & dh carries one - means that they are present in our lives and just another thing we need to teach our kids about.


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## QuestionGal (Feb 19, 2006)

**I have chosen to remove my response since this thread has now been linked to the Mothering Facebook page**


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## MOMYS (Nov 5, 2008)

We don't. We grew up in a fairly violent society and some of our kids could shoot a gun at ages 8 and 10 in defense. The could drive in case of an emergency. Our kids all knew how and where to hide in case of an attack. We had early morning and evening radio calls in our farmer "cells" just to check that everyone was still alive. We carried a silent broadcast panic button (to broadcast to the other farms in our cell) in case of an attack. We had an 8ft electric fence around our house.

This was our way of life, we thought it was normal.

At that stage our kids were not allowed toy guns because of the reality of violent crime.

We have since moved to Canada. Our younger kids don't really remember any of it, but we do, and so do our older 2 (the eldest most of all). He would love a gun for target shooting. We might consider it in the future but not now. To us, guns are not a toy. Ever.

What other people do in their homes, doesn't bother me. Societies are different and people's experiences differ. Just for us, as a family, guns as toys is just not an option.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

**I have chosen to remove my response since this thread has now been linked to the Mothering Facebook page**


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## JudiAU (Jun 29, 2008)

No, I don't. I am not okay with my kids playing with guns in any form. We don't use the word "shoot" either.

I live in an urban area with a lot of shooting deaths. People don't hunt with them.


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## mamaboss (Jul 23, 2008)

DD is also 3 1/2 and we do allow toy guns. Our rule is probably the same as most people in that pointing them at people is absolutely NOT acceptable and we discuss why it isn't ok on the rare occasion it comes up. She's never used a water gun and I'm not sure she will because it kinda contradicts the whole no shooting at someone.

Yes, guns are dangerous. But I don't think that guns=violence. I believe in educating my child on gun safety and educating her on for example, what to do if she were to ever come across a real gun at a friend's house. I'd rather my child have enough knowledge about the power of a gun to know not to touch it, etc. rather than receive a phone call that my child shot someone or was shot. I think that by completely forbidding guns, like anything else, raises curiosity about them and that to me is much more dangerous than a toy.


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## Momofplenty (Mar 20, 2011)

How do you teach a child knowledge of how to protect against a gun? I mean, I've told my children why we dont play with them and what to do if they were to ever come across one, but how does allowing them to play with something that looks like a gun and then turning around and saying "this is not a toy. make sure if you see a real one, cause you know, you'll know what it looks like, you run like hell?" Do you aim the toy gun at the child and say "what would you do?" or... "say this was a black gun, with real bullets, and you found it, would you know the difference, at 3 years old? and what would you do?" I just dont see all lessons being learned hands on, especially with guns.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamaboss*
> 
> DD is also 3 1/2 and we do allow toy guns. Our rule is probably the same as most people in that pointing them at people is absolutely NOT acceptable and we discuss why it isn't ok on the rare occasion it comes up. She's never used a water gun and I'm not sure she will because it kinda contradicts the whole no shooting at someone.
> 
> Yes, guns are dangerous. But I don't think that guns=violence. I believe in educating my child on gun safety and educating her on for example, what to do if she were to ever come across a real gun at a friend's house. I'd rather my child have enough knowledge about the power of a gun to know not to touch it, etc. rather than receive a phone call that my child shot someone or was shot. I think that by completely forbidding guns, like anything else, raises curiosity about them and that to me is much more dangerous than a toy.


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## Ldavis24 (Feb 19, 2009)

We don't have any guns in our home currently but will be getting some hunting rifles because I really enjoy hunting my own food. DH wants to learn how to hunt as well.

I honestly won't care that DD plays with water guns or whatever, this is one area I think there is so much fear because horrible, preventable accidents happen with real guns. The factor in most of those situations with kids and guns is the gun not being properly locked up and the kiddo not knowing much about guns in the first place...Like NEVER play with a real gun...I don't think a 5 year-old would have a terrible time understanding the difference between a bright green plastic squirt gun and a real gun. At least non of me or my 12 cousins did and all of them had big gun cabinets in their houses as kids. We all used to go hunting together for pheasants...Talk about dangerous, picture a bunch of kids walking around in a field with guns!

DD can play with water guns and even shoot them at people including me if she'd like. She'll learn about real guns and gun safety as she is more and more able to understand it...I have MAJOR issues with the NRA and am not a member nor will I ever be but they have some really great info on age appropriate gun education for kids. Pretending like guns don't exist isn't going to stop your kid from playing shooting games and it certainly isn't going to stop them from hearing about guns from other people. I'd rather not make guns this huge deal that she doesn't understand and just keep it low key and teach her safety measures about guns and how to handle situations involving real guns....

Kids have been playing shooting games since forever and clearly things are ok. Violence amongst kids in general is scary but honestly things like bullying prevention are more important to me and than never allowing DD to play a shooting game with other kids. I don't think the fact that there is gun violence in cities ( as well as in the "country") is going to influence my DD to think real guns are ok to shoot at people..

ETA that I think this is just about the most anti-MDC post I have ever made here


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## mamaboss (Jul 23, 2008)

Well first of all, my 3 year old isn't going to be off playing at a friend's house without me. She's three and I watch her like a hawk. I meant begin educating her now as a foundation for the future when she is at a friend's house without me.

And I personally wouldn't use sarcasm to teach my child something so serious as you've implied. You can tell your kid a million times what not to do but I'm willing to bet a child's curiosity will win over 9 out of 10 times.

We also have real guns in our home-- kept in a locked safe at all times. Occasionally DH will sit down with her and show her one of his guns and talk to her about them. For now at the level of a 3 year old and more as she gets older, eventually having the opportunity to shoot one herself- in a safe environment and while learning even more about gun safety.

Frankly, guns are toys. They are used as recreational target shooting and hunting tools. It is when they are abused that they become weapons. Almost anything can become a weapon if abused.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamaboss*
> 
> Frankly, guns are toys.


Wow! That's an interesting perspective. One I don't think I have ever seen here on MDC.

Frankly, they're not. Guns have one purpose. To kill. Anything invented to kill is not a toy. The guillotine is not a toy, either. We don't go around with play guillotines pretending to cut off people's heads.

However, some weapons *are* also tools. Some tools can become weapons. But guns... nope. Never have nor ever will be a toy or a tool because that is not their purpose. My father is a gun enthusiast. He taught me a lot about guns. It is because of what he taught me that we've never allowed toy guns. We also don't have real guns (because I don't think I could use one for its purpose, so what's the point of having one... if you can't or won't use it, that's even more dangerous than not having one at all).


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## Ldavis24 (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> 
> Wow! That's an interesting perspective. One I don't think I have ever seen here on MDC.
> 
> Frankly, they're not. Guns have one purpose. To kill. Anything invented to kill is not a toy. Some weapons are also tools. Some tools can become weapons. But guns... nope. Never have nor ever will be a toy or a tool because that is not their purpose. My father is a gun enthusiast. He taught me a lot about guns. It is because of what he taught me that we've never allowed toy guns. We also don't have real guns (because I don't think I could use one for its purpose, so what's the point of having one... if you can't or won't use it, that's even more dangerous than not having one at all).


I know what she meant. That people treat real guns like toys which is the problem. I don't think (not that you are saying this) that kids playing with plastic water guns is what allows kids to turn into older kids or teens or young adults or even adults who think guns are toys though. Once again anecdotal but my whole gang of cousins and I grew up around guns knowing that a toy water gun is not a real gun and you respect the difference. None of us thought REAL guns were toys even though we sure "shot" each other a lot with toy guns.

People who think real guns are just toys to shoot around with and impress your friends are people who obviously haven't learned to respect guns from a young age, or have someone to teach them just how serious guns are.


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## FiveLittleMonkeys (Jan 21, 2009)

We do allow toy guns - water, Nerf type - in our home. We do not currently own any firearms, and I'm not sure that we will any time soon. I was raised around guns, and my dh just retired from the Army. We understand gun safety. One of my earliest memories with my step-dad was of him teaching me how to properly clean, load and fire guns (although the first time he took me duck hunting, I threw up







)

I have a very healthy respect for guns. My dad has been great in teaching our kids about gun safety every time we visit, at our request. Last time, he took our 9 yo DS out to the range, and DS really enjoyed both the lessons learned and the one on one time spent with his Papa. Our kids - all of them (except the baby, and he'll understand it too) understand that guns are serious business. They aren't toys, they are used to kill animals for food, and in the hands of the wrong people, they are used to hurt or kill people. But are we minimizing the seriousness of guns by letting them "shoot" each other with Super Soakers in the summertime? Absolutely NOT. Not anymore than them using the wands they got at Harry Potter World to "cast spells" on their siblings means they mean them harm.....it's just harmless play (although we did tell them no Unforgivable Curses).

During DH's time in the military, it was such a pain to have weapons that we never really wanted them. Our now 9 yo DS was an extremely curious child, and if we had owned weapons at that time, they would have been taken to my parents' house, as I would have felt unsafe with them in the same house with him - even appropriately stored. He was THAT into EVERYTHING.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ldavis24*
> 
> I know what she meant. That people treat real guns like toys which is the problem. I don't think (not that you are saying this) that kids playing with plastic water guns is what allows kids to turn into older kids or teens or young adults or even adults who think guns are toys though. Once again anecdotal but my whole gang of cousins and I grew up around guns knowing that a toy water gun is not a real gun and you respect the difference. None of us thought REAL guns were toys even though we sure "shot" each other a lot with toy guns.
> 
> People who think real guns are just toys to shoot around with and impress your friends are people who obviously haven't learned to respect guns from a young age, or have someone to teach them just how serious guns are.


Toys = Fun. Toys = Play. Guns = Toys. Ergo... Guns = Fun and Playing. What other way can you interpret it?

I grew up with guns, too. My father is a lifelong NRA member, was a hunter (no longer, as he's too elderly) and I shot my first target when I was about 10. I guess we were raised with a completely different philosophy because my father taught me that there isn't anything "toylike" or "fun" about guns. They are weapons with a purpose and you don't play around with them or pretend. We were not allowed to have toy guns. I respect that this philosophy came from someone who really knows guns. IMO, if you're going to have guns in the house, then at some point, when the children are old enough, teach them how to use the real ones, respect them, and teach them that there is nothing "fun" about guns... but don't turn them into toys, real or plastic.


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## Ldavis24 (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> 
> Toys = Fun. Toys = Play. Guns = Toys. Ergo... Guns = Fun and Playing. What other way can you interpret it?
> 
> I grew up with guns, too. My father is a lifelong NRA member, was a hunter (no longer, as he's too elderly) and I shot my first target when I was about 10. I guess we were raised with a completely different philosophy because my father taught me that there isn't anything "toylike" or "fun" about guns. They are weapons with a purpose and you don't play around with them or pretend. We were not allowed to have toy guns. I respect that this philosophy came from someone who really knows guns. IMO, if you're going to have guns in the house, then at some point, when the children are old enough, teach them how to use the real ones, respect them, and teach them that there is nothing "fun" about guns... but don't turn them into toys, real or plastic.


Well I don't know about you but I never had a problem (if you read my other posts I grew up literally surrounded by responsible gun owners) a problem distinguishing between a orange plastic water gun and a real gun...Perhaps you did I don't know but I never picked up a real gun as a child and thought of it as a toy but I could pick up a water gun and recognize there is a huge difference. I give my DD enough credit to be at least as intelligent as I was, I hope and I am confident that children can and DO recognize the difference. Lazy parents who don't know how to properly store or educate their children about guns are far more of a problem than the responsible parent who lets their kid play with water pistols and have real guns for hunting in the house...BTW that guns are toys thing implies that I will own a hand gun...Which I won't, they have no purpose. We will only own rifles and if my kid can't figure out the difference between a real hunting rifle that I have talked to her about and keep locked up securely and a plastic water pistol then I didn't do my job as a parent. I never EVER thought "well because this water gun I'm having a blast with is a super fun toy that real hunting rifle I take to shoot ANIMALS (which I suppose can be enjoyable in a way but I wouldn't call it fun) is a toy too." I never found the killing of animals overly enjoyable myself but I hunting is an important skill that I appreciate and I find spending time with family enjoyable.

We are coming at this from different places and I don't think you'll really care/understand what I am saying because we are on different sides of the bridge. I do NOT think real guns are toys, I do think water pistols are toys and there is a difference that is easy to see and understand. If I could appreciate the difference at 5 or 6 or 7 (and I was no genius child) then I am confident with education any child can. It's really not that hard to grasp. I don't think you are giving kids enough credit.

I do respect your opinion velochic, I have enjoyed your posts in other threads so I guess here we will just be in disagreement.


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## MammaG (Apr 9, 2009)

I do not allow toy guns in my house and I prefer that my children not play with toy guns at other people's houses. This is partly because they are guns and I agree with pps that guns should not be allowed to be viewed as toys or even child-appropriate tools (nor would I get my kids a plastic chain-saw toy, you know?) and partly because I prefer my kids to play with open-ended toys that can be imagined to be many things.

I don't restrict the kids from playing guns and inventing guns, though. Ditto the Raising Cain ideas from pp above.

So, I would not allow a water pistol that looks like a pistol, but would allow a water-squirter that could be imagined to be a gun or a water wand or a mermaid sword, etc. I wouldn't allow a cap gun or a branded plastic laser gun, but I would allow a stick shaped like an 'L' to be a pretend gun.

I would prefer that they not point at a person, but I think that this restricts their imaginative play, so I allow it with some discomfort. As pp said, kids in play don't see 'dead' or 'shot' as we adults see it. Exploring those themes can really inform their later moral character, I believe.

I have for most of my life really absolutely hated guns, had no exposure to them, and felt that there is NO reason for a private citizen to ever, ever own one. But as I grow and mature, I find I really admire people who hunt respectfully for their own food and use the whole animal. It is not a stretch to then see practicing and recreational use of guns as an extension of that. And so my opinion about guns in general has changed. Whereas before my blind abhorrence may have actually put my kids at risk because I wouldn't have even allowed the word 'gun' in my house, now I feel I can explain to them how guns are used, describe guns, and alert them to the dangers should they ever encounter a gun. And I hope that taking a less militant (as it were) stance will also temper any reactive actions by my kids as they grow.


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## raksmama (Feb 20, 2005)

Ha Ha! you could be describing my son at that age! I always thought that I would never allow guns in my house too. DS would just go over to the neighbours who had 3 boys and lots of toy guns. He would make guns out of toast, sticks anything. The more I forbade it, the more obsessed he became! In his art class the teacher took me aside and told me all he wanted to do was draw guns! When we finally relented at age 8 and got him a nerf and his obsession stopped and he soon lost interest in guns. However boys will be boys.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hopefulfaith*
> 
> When ds was 4, he started making things into guns: biting his toast into that shape and yelling POW POW POW! I tried swords to appease the interest in weaponry, which held us out for almost six months .... but I finally consented to a Nerf gun. I will not allow anything in the house that looks real, and Nerf guns are not "real-looking" to me. There are a whole host of rules which accompany the guns/darts, and for the most part, the kids are fine about them.
> 
> that they are present in our lives and just another thing we need to teach our kids about.


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## Jenni1894 (Apr 1, 2011)

I would not buy one for my son, but I wouldn't turn one down if it was given as a gift. Which is the case with the 2 he has. Which are hidden in the front hall closet. Forgotten about for the last year. We have water guns, nerf guns and these 2 toy rifles.

I made the rule that they are to be played with outside only and never to point it at someone. Or the toy is mine. End of story.

So yes, i allow them. But they make guns out of legos and sticks.

I've never fired a gun, a paintball or pellet gun is the extent of my knowledge.

I think if shown the proper respect and handling and an explanation of safety is given then the kids know the dangers of guns. I had DH do this b/c he's more knowledgeable on these things than me.


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## KempsMama (Dec 1, 2008)

Well, I'll be an odd ball.

The only thing that rivals my son's toy gun collection in number around here is my DH's real gun collection. DS1 has a shotgun that he hunts "House Moose" with, a pistol that he tucks in his waistband when he plays cops, several water guns, a nerf gun, a disc gun, the gun that came with is duck hunter game, a gun that came filled with bubble gum that my mom gave him....yeah I think that about covers it. We've used them as a tool to start teaching gun safety and respect, he's asked a lot of questions about them that we've been thrilled to answer. Around here, unless I plan on going on every.single.playdate.he.ever.has. he's going to come across a toy gun, and frankly, I don't see the point in sheltering my child from reality. Guns exist, they are great tools, they can be a form of recreation, and they are deadly in the wrong hands. I would rather teach my children this than make them afraid of guns or ignore the issue all together.


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## ~Charlie's~Angel~ (Mar 17, 2008)

No. We do not have ONE toy gun in our home. However, the boys have water guns and bubble guns at the grandmothers house, and a couple other little friends all have about 40 diff types of nerf guns. So they get the exposure, and have become somewhat OBBSESSED with guns. its gotten better lately. But I think they have realized its taboo for mama, so they are riding that pony hard. BLECK.

I just dont like guns. I know they are used for hunting and providing food, but when I am really honest with myself, guns were invented as a more effective weapon during war. Which means to kill other human beings. It just turns my stomach, and everytime I try to convince myself otherwise, I come back to THAT. And since my kids dont understand the severity of what it means to point a gun at someone, I just cant bring myself (yet) to have even fake ones in my home. The old phrase "guns are NOT toys" resonates in my very being.

FYI, im probably the closest member of MDC to mainstream parenting there is. Other then the abundance of trolls around here lately. I feel like were being invaded.

ETA I do try to teach my children the proper way to handle a gun, and to NEVER point it at someone (because, again, they dont understand the severity of what a gun really is yet) but that is very hard to do when literally, EVER toy gun on the market is actually designed to SHOOT THINGS AT YOUR FRIENDS. I mean right? Paint ball guns? Water guns, nerf guns with the little styrafome missles. Supposed to shoot those at people, so i feel very conflicted.


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## Chloe'sMama (Oct 14, 2008)

We have not purchased anything like this for DD (almost 3), but she just got a squirtgun at a party we went to. She has no idea what it is or what to do with it since we don't watch any movies or tv with guns at all (she watches veggie tales sometimes and nature shows). I didn't get rid of it since I see no harm at this point. I don't like it when her big cousins would play with guns and shooting (even if DD is not around).


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## Ldavis24 (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *~Charlie's~Angel~* .
> 
> FYI, im probably the closest member of MDC to mainstream parenting there is. *Other then the abundance of trolls around here lately. I feel like were being invaded. *


Seriously...I was wondering the same thing myself...what is going on with MDC?!


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## tbone_kneegrabber (Oct 16, 2007)

Considering someone was just shot and killed a block from our house last week, we are not too keen on gun play. We do not have toy guns in the house and are not planning on getting any anytime soon. When the issue of guns comes up we explain that we live in a city with gun violence and people get hurt and die because of guns around us so it is not a game that we want in the house.

Ds's grandparents have guns and when DP and I lived on a farm we had a .22 to deal with wildlife. I suspect Ds will learn to shot a real gun when he is older (he's only 3.5) and I don't have a problem with that.

I think the notion that GUN PLAY is instinctual is the biggest load of bull I've ever heard. Hello, we are talking about several hundred years that guns have been around, it takes WAY longer than that to develop instincts and breed for them. Violent play, playing with the idea of life and death, exploring pretend violence, I can maybe believe there is some biological imperative for that, but GUNS in specific, yea I don't think they've made it into the DNA!


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## Ldavis24 (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tbone_kneegrabber*
> 
> Considering someone was just shot and killed a block from our house last week, we are not too keen on gun play. We do not have toy guns in the house and are not planning on getting any anytime soon. When the issue of guns comes up we explain that we live in a city with gun violence and people get hurt and die because of guns around us so it is not a game that we want in the house.
> 
> ...


maybe not guns specifically but SHOOTING is yes pretty instinctual I'd say, just look at every mama who has tried so hard to prevent that type of play. It just doesn't work. It's like you are fighting the tide...

Hmm I think you bring up a good point that living and raising kids in a city is a lot different from the country and I do believe in my own case it would change how I view gun/shooting play in regard to DD or future LOs...Then again I refuse to live in a city for reasons like gun violence amongst others...I'm a country girl through and through.


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## hildare (Jul 6, 2009)

i like questiongal's take, though i don't really adhere to the genderization theory of the author she referenced. we're gunny folks. dh participated in some sort of (i'm sleep deprived) gun competetion going to state level competetions. so, for those of you who think they're only used for death and destruction, you are aware that there are sport categories of shooting, right? rifle teams in high school and in the olympics?

yes, we allow, will allow.. dh cannot wait till dd is old enough for those super fantastic nerf ones.

we also intend to teach gun safety and allow the use of firearms when she's old enough. my father did with me. i also was a star wars freak and had many blasters when i was a kid. i understood the difference.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

I'm in the UK (where DDs are not going to encounter guns in the normal way of life).

I have 2 girls so there aren't a lot of folks queueing up to buy toy guns for our kids. We do have a couple of water guns and a bubble gun though. I don't think there could be much confusion about whether or not it's a toy - do they make transparent neon orange guns that shoot bullets?

I am not excited about gun play, but then DD1 has never "shot" me with one of her guns and remarked on me being dead, only on me being wet or getting fairy kisses (bubbles). I cannot imagine how i would feel about it if i lived somewhere where any idiot can get and own a gun. Pretty differently i suspect. I'm glad to be somewhere that has comparatively less gun crime. The major problem in the city where i live is KNIFE crime. And yes, we own both toy and real knives.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

This is one of those issues where I think parents can relax a TON about and isn't a big deal as it feels like. I swore before I had kids and when mine were toddlers they'd never have any kind of play guns, would never pretend to shoot anyone, would never play anything violent at all. Then life happened. Kids play violent games and it's natural and IMO there's nothing wrong with it. My kids don't have realistic looking guns just because it freaks me out but the older one makes guns out of legos and what-not. We have squirt guns and a Nerf gun. There's a great Mothering article called "Bang Bang You're Dead" about this. It's just not to them what it seems like to us. I'll try to find the article and link it if I find it.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

OK I'm on a mobile so this is the mobile version, but here it is:
http://mobile.mothering.com/parenting/bang-bang-youre-dead


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## Mrs. Bratton (Jan 27, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> 
> Wow! That's an interesting perspective. One I don't think I have ever seen here on MDC.
> 
> ...


What I got from that is that she meant guns can be used for hobby and recreation purposes. I don't get the 'guns have one purpose' thing. No, they have several. Home defense, hunting, and recreational target shooting, to name a few. My husband has the largest size gun safe you can own stocked with well over 20 guns. He has his conceal to carry license and is a very responsible gun owner. He has taught me about gun safety and I also grew up with a father who was a hunter/gun enthusiast. I don't think I have ever lived in a home without a gun. My husband and I have one gun intended for home defense and we would have no problem using it for it's intended purpose if need be. That said, most of his guns are for recreational target shooting, as he is not a hunter at all. So, idk about other people but ours have way more than one purpose. And, I can see what she meant by 'toys', recreational objects, but that wouldn't be my choice of words b/c they are not something to he handled lightly AT ALL.

As for toy guns, I am torn. I have a girl so I don't know if it will be an issue. We always played with them. I am actually okay with her playing guns and playing with toy guns from a moral/parenting aspect. I just don't want her to get the idea that guns are something to be toyed with or treated casually. I don't want to desensitize her to the seriousness of handling a gun.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

**I have chosen to remove my response since this thread has now been linked to the Mothering Facebook page**


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## Ldavis24 (Feb 19, 2009)

I dont' know why but hand guns freak me out and I love the look/feel/kickback of a big brute of a rifle...


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## FiveLittleMonkeys (Jan 21, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ldavis24*
> 
> I dont' know why but hand guns freak me out and I love the look/feel/kickback of a big brute of a rifle...


Oh, I'm the exact opposite!! I hate the feeling of the big kickbacks that rifles give, but give me a Glock or a .357, and I'm good. I'm actually a better shot than my DH (which has ALWAYS ticked him off, since he had to qualify at ranges twice a year in the Army!) I really do enjoy going to indoor shooting ranges with my dad and DH - and whenever we visit them, we make time to go.


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## KempsMama (Dec 1, 2008)

I prefer one of my hubby's antiques, a bolt action shot gun. It holds three, and I have a lot of fun with it. It was the first gun I ever shot.


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## Ldavis24 (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KempsMama*
> 
> I prefer one of my hubby's antiques, a bolt action shot gun. It holds three, and I have a lot of fun with it. It was the first gun I ever shot.


hehe this reminds me of the muzzle loader I almost knocked me head off shooting with my uncles when I was a teen! Talk about a kickback...

Oops, when did this turn into gun appreciation thread?? We are supposed to hate guns, boo guns!!


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

I**I have chosen to remove my response since this thread has now been linked to the Mothering Facebook page**


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## EarthyLady (Jul 15, 2005)

We do not allow toy guns. I am adamantly against it. We do however, have real guns. We live in the country and have them for protection. We teach our kids gun safety and such, but we do not allow any sort of gun to be used to play with or as a toy.


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## SubliminalDarkness (Sep 9, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Momofplenty*
> 
> I grew up with water guns and "old western" type toy guns. But, with us being 4 girls and no boys, we didn't have an overabundance of them around. THAT SAID....
> 
> ...


I'm sorry, did I read this right? 3 weeks ago your husband committed suicide? I got distracted on the rest of the thread because I was trying to understand what you were saying.


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## CallMeMommy (Jun 15, 2005)

I'm squicky on the realistic-looking toy guns (cap guns, etc.) but have no problem with Nerf or squirt guns. I don't like real guns, have never handled a real gun, don't have any friends or family who hunt or use firearms, but that hasn't stopped my 2-year-old from turning DH's deodorant stick into a gun.


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## mamakah (Nov 5, 2008)

We are pretty anti gun (real or toy) so we don't buy gun toys for DS. I remember having play guns as a kid, but I feel that DS is growing in a different time than I did. When I was a kid, you never heard of school/mall/office shootings. Gun violence wasn't such a big issue as it is today.

We won't ever buy toy guns-or real for that matter-for DS BUT he is going to take gun safety classes. Why? Because we realize that there is a very good chance that he will come across a gun in his life, at friend's houses...whatever. We want him to know how dangerous a gun is and how to handle one.

When DH was in 2nd grade he found his step dad's gun under the bed. He brought it to school the next day to show his friends-luckily a kid who had taken gun safety courses knew how dangerous that was and went and told a teacher. They treated DH like a criminal-like he brought it to school to hurt someone.  Really, he was just a little boy who thought guns were toys and brought it to school-he had no idea what he was doing. Absolutely terrifying.

I don't want DS to be that clueless should a situation like that arise.


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## melin (Mar 31, 2011)

No guns. My son is three and has no interest in playing with guns with his fingers, sticks or whatnot. He wasn't taught to do that and has no interest in it.

Like others I don't view guns as a toy. I see their purpose as a means of violence. That just isn't what we teach or condone in our family. My sibling and father are avid hunters and NRA members with houses full of guns. My sister in law actually pulled her gun on her own son, "by accident." I have no respect for that kind of behavior. My father's love of guns is slightly different. It's not a macho thing, but a collector's thing. That being said, it's their choice. I grew up with them and chose to have a family without them.

Should my son come to me at a later date, when he is older, and want to learn to target shoot, of his own accord. Then I will revisit my stance. At this point all the acting out would be to shoot things/animals/people and that is not something our family wants instilled on any level.


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## mamaboss (Jul 23, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mrs. Bratton*
> 
> *What I got from that is that she meant guns can be used for hobby and recreation purposes. I don't get the 'guns have one purpose' thing. No, they have several. Home defense, hunting, and recreational target shooting, to name a few*. My husband has the largest size gun safe you can own stocked with well over 20 guns. He has his conceal to carry license and is a very responsible gun owner. He has taught me about gun safety and I also grew up with a father who was a hunter/gun enthusiast. I don't think I have ever lived in a home without a gun. My husband and I have one gun intended for home defense and we would have no problem using it for it's intended purpose if need be. That said, most of his guns are for recreational target shooting, as he is not a hunter at all. So, idk about other people but ours have way more than one purpose. *And, I can see what she meant by 'toys', recreational objects, but that wouldn't be my choice of words b/c they are not something to he handled lightly AT ALL.*


Thanks, yes perhaps my wording wasn't the best but I'm glad a few people understood what I meant, that guns do have many purposes and pure recreation is absolutely one of them.

I think this is one of those cases where we are each choosing what is best for our families and what works for one may not work for another, but that doesn't necessarily mean any of us is "right". I feel I am making the best decision for my daughter by educating her about guns and those who choose not to allow guns are doing what they believe is best as well. I respect the different perspectives on this topic and understand that I am most likely in the minority among parents in general, mainstream or otherwise. But I don't think that letting my child shoot a gun is going to turn her into a killer down the road nor do I think the child who was never allowed a toy gun is going to be completely nonviolent.


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## Aliyahsmommy (Sep 9, 2008)

I read through the responses as I wasn't sure what my stance was as I still wavered as how to handle the situation. I always said I would never let my kids play with any guns, but the other day my 3 year old was at a friend's and they brought toy guns out and I didn't take it away from her. I'm kind of wishing I had though.

I am thinking along with another response I read that we will never own any toy guns in our house of any sort, but if my son makes some out of legos etc then I would feel okay with that. I also would make the rule of no pretend shooting people, but they can pretend to shoot at objects. I love the idea of a gun safety course also!

As for what to do or say if my child sees one at someone's house I'm unsure how to approach that. On one had I do not want it to be like the forbidden fruit or for my child to feel left out, but on the other hand I just do not like the idea of playing with guns at other's homes because who knows if that gun will be a real gun someday. How to get that point across with my child is a whole other story. I suppose by the time my child is ready for unsupervised play at someone's house, he/she might also be old enough for an important conversation about guns, hopefully


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## mamaboss (Jul 23, 2008)

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *~Charlie's~Angel~* .
> 
> FYI, im probably the closest member of MDC to mainstream parenting there is. *Other then the abundance of trolls around here lately. I feel like were being invaded. *


Quote:



> Originally Posted by *Ldavis24*
> 
> Seriously...I was wondering the same thing myself...what is going on with MDC?!


Maybe it's because didn't it used to be you had to be a subscriber to the magazine to gain access to MDC but now anyone can? Just a guess.


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## csekywithlove (Feb 25, 2010)

I didn't really want DSS to play with guns. Where we live hunting and fishing are an integral part of our community. I pretty much bit the bullet (haha, but really) when my sister in law bought a toy gun for DSS. We tell him not to point it at people and he loves acting like a cowboy. He watches Western all the time with my dad. He says, "Don't shoot people, don't shoot horses." But I find the toy gun to be like any other toy. He may play with it one week twice and then forget it for a month. DH and I already agree that gun safety will be taught to all of our children in the future. To me it's important for a child to understand that guns are dangerous. Period. But I don't want my child to fear a gun or anything for that matter.


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## Phoenix~Mama (Dec 24, 2007)

I didn't read all replies...

I think this topic is very regional I think. I think people who grew up/live in the city will have very varying opinions from people who grew up in/live in the country.

And this is something I've been actually thinking on and off about as I have a DS. My father, grandfather, future FIL, and several of our close family friends are all hunters. I live in an area that is BIG into hunting... like, I think some schools around here still close for the first day of buck and doe season and it's not uncommon for majority of the boys to be absent for that week of class for first week of hunting season. No, I'm not kidding... I live in *******-ville. ;-)

So, I grew up around guns. We had hunting rifles locked up in the house. My Dad and future FIL have already mentioned about taking DS hunting when he is old enough. I have a ton of mixed feelings on this and get this panicked feeling in my throat. I know that before I'm okay with that, I will have to first make myself go through gun safety classes and be present for all of DS's gun saftey training. I just don't think I will feel comfortable before then.

With that said... I like water guns. They are fun. My sisters and I always had a collection of water guns and would have water fights in the backyard. I never ever once equated a toy water gun with a real gun. I knew there was a MAJOR difference.

I was also around toy guns (rifles) due to living in a huge hunting area. All my boy cousins had them, and I had male friends as well that had them, and my youngest sister even had one as she asked for one the one Christmas. These don't look real at all in my opinion and I think I will be okay with those. And the western style toy ones that also do not look like the real thing at all.

So I guess, writing this all out I found my line... toy guns will be okay as long as they are the chintzy non-real looking things. It's going to take me a long time to get comfortable with the real thing... but I know with the area I live in, it's something I'm going to have to grapple with sooner or later, especially come 4th grade or so and DS's friends all go hunting with their Dads/granddads. It's just a total culture here. Parents beam with pride when their DS brings home their first deer.

So yeah... I think it's a very regional dependent opinion. No right or wrong. We each have very valid reasons for the way we feel.


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## Phoenix~Mama (Dec 24, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamaboss*
> 
> Maybe it's because didn't it used to be you had to be a subscriber to the magazine to gain access to MDC but now anyone can? Just a guess.


Actually, anyone could join before. I joined LONG before I ever bought an issue of mothering, and the only reason I had an issue when I did get one was because I paid for s subscriber package to the message boards that included a subscription to the magazine.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamaboss*
> 
> Maybe it's because didn't it used to be you had to be a subscriber to the magazine to gain access to MDC but now anyone can? Just a guess.


no, even before the crash you didn't have to be a subscriber to post. But the forum was a lot smaller, with less posters and less subject areas.


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## Ldavis24 (Feb 19, 2009)

this isn't at anyone in particular but why is that hunting and guns are associated with hicks/********/whatever you want to call them...

I think choosing to learn how to hunt and provide for the family as well as how to handle guns properly is a good thing no matter who you are...The association with hicks/******** just makes people sound less intelligent....


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Yes - we allow toy guns, of whatever kind the kids want to play with. I always have. DS1 had about 5-6 toy guns, although his first love was (and still is) swords, not guns. I'm not sure if ds2 has any, or not - one or two of ds1's old ones are still around, though.

Guns simply aren't an issue to me. There is not "why" I allow it, in the sense the OP means. To me, it's like asking me why I allow crayons or frisbees or beads or bikes or Lego or Hot Wheels or...whatever. It's a complete non-issue to me.


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## Ldavis24 (Feb 19, 2009)

I really look forward to the days when DD and DH and I can have all out water gun wars and absolutely SHOOT each other...I fully expect DD to shoot the heck out of me! Ahh memories of running around like maniacs with my cousins shooting each other, or more accurately spraying each other with water guns all summer...I couldn't deprive DD of that.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

So a question, for people who are really opposed to toy guns. Do you think playing with toy guns makes kids grow into more violent people? Squirt guns too?


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## Phoenix~Mama (Dec 24, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ldavis24*
> 
> this isn't at anyone in particular but why is that hunting and guns are associated with hicks/********/whatever you want to call them...
> 
> I think choosing to learn how to hunt and provide for the family as well as how to handle guns properly is a good thing no matter who you are...The association with hicks/******** just makes people sound less intelligent....


I don't really associate ******* with less intelligent. It's a term I own, because where I grew up, yeah I'm considered red neck. Just very country with where and how I grew up. But I also don't think red-neck means just hunting... For me personally, I used it to describe my area of where I live, it is stero-typical red-neck. Lots of pick-up trucks, the gross habit of chewing is big here, a lot of "boys club" bars, and yes, hunting is a part of it, but hunting in itself isn't neccessarily red-neck... but in my area... I think it is under the red-neck classification that a lot of the hunting that goes on takes place on people's back porches for red squirrels, bats, ground hogs... other pesky animals. lol

I still won't forget how hard I laughed when my Mom got so fed up with a groundhog eating her strawberry garden that she took out the rifle and shot it through the window screen on our stair landing. That's red-neck. *giggles*

Oh yeah... we also left out beer and beef jerky for Santa as well as cookies. ;-) That's a thing here.

And I consider myself to be fairly intelligent. But I can't deny my red-neck roots.


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## Ldavis24 (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phoenix~Mama*
> 
> I don't really associate ******* with less intelligent. It's a term I own, because where I grew up, yeah I'm considered red neck. Just very country with where and how I grew up. But I also don't think red-neck means just hunting... For me personally, I used it to describe my area of where I live, it is stero-typical red-neck. Lots of pick-up trucks, the gross habit of chewing is big here, a lot of "boys club" bars, and yes, hunting is a part of it, but hunting in itself isn't neccessarily red-neck... but in my area... I think it is under the red-neck classification that a lot of the hunting that goes on takes place on people's back porches for red squirrels, bats, ground hogs... other pesky animals. lol
> 
> ...


I grew up in Maine, we don't have ******** we have hicks! I guess I was feeling sensitive because yeah it was my life too and my people too...They aren't less intelligent but apparently somewhere along the line I personally allowed those words to develop negative connotations with lack of intelligence...which is purely my own problem...

Although I know I'm not imaging it when some people use those words to imply less intelligence than your average non *******/non hick...

Oh and your mom sounds awesome...my cousins used to shoot squirrels from their window and then get them, skin them and roast them over an open flame!


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## xzaviers_mama (May 15, 2009)

We started out as a family that was absolutely against any type of toy guns. We stuck with that for a good 5 years or so. At DS's 4th birthday, someone gave him action figures that had guns, so I threw the guns away, and let him have the figures. Some time around then, he started making "guns" out of everything. He'd chew his bread into a gun, build one with legos, use a stick... it didn't matter. I worked in daycares before I ever had kids, and was very familiar with how little boys could make guns out of darn near anything.

I suppose it was at that point that I became a little more open to the idea. I was done trying to fight him, and I felt like I was making a big deal out of the whole thing, which just made him want it more. My grandma also pointed out to me that every other male in our family grew up playing "cowboys & indians", or "cops & robbers", and NONE of them grew up to think that shooting another person was okay.

We're also a vegan family, and my 2 older boys (ages 7 & 3) are extremely compassionate. They saw a hunting type video game once, and were both very sad that the guy playing was shooting at animals. When they're running around the backyard, squirting each other with water guns, I don't think they're planning out how they're going to shoot up their highschool later in life... kwim?

I can very clearly see both sides of this issue, as I've been on both. Sometimes, when my kids make a "gun" with their fingers out in public, I regret my decision... but that's because I'm afraid of what other mamas may be thinking about me...lol.


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## Momofplenty (Mar 20, 2011)

Sorry, no, my husband's brother. He had turned 24 the week before. I also believe in stricter laws for who can/should own guns...thats a whole different discussion though.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mrs. Bratton*
> 
> What I got from that is that she meant guns can be used for hobby and recreation purposes. I don't get the 'guns have one purpose' thing. No, they have several. Home defense, hunting, and recreational target shooting, to name a few.


No, those are the contexts in which they can be used. Their purpose is to kill some living thing. Home defense is killing a living thing to protect yourself. Hunting is killing a living thing to eat (hopefully... I shudder to think people here would do it for sport). And target shooting is nothing but the practice arena to make sure that when you pull the trigger you DO kill that thing you are aiming at. That's not recreation. I don't have any problem with hunting for food and I'm not a vegetarian. But saying that guns are fun is kind of sick IME. Taking the life of any living thing isn't "fun", even if it's for sustenance.


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## waiting2bemommy (Dec 2, 2007)

I started out being 100% anti guns, but then this past Chrsitmas ds' friend got a really cool Nerf gun. The kids were having such a good time playing with it and ds begged for one, so a few months later I got him a smaller one. He doesn't even play with it that much, honestly. Our rule is that you may not shoot people and you may not be destructive with it (knocking things over with the darts/bullets, or saying terribly violent things). He mostly just shoots at his window, or the doorknob. When it's him and his friend playing, they shoot at each other and I live with it. I'm ok with nerf guns and water squirter types of things, but I would not be ok with a real looking toy gun. Nor do I think it's necessary to get a "semi-automatic fully reloadable dual holder" water gun that costs $30. If you want to squirt water, go to the dollar store or get yourself an old dish soap bottle. It's over the top imo to give kids guns, even water guns, that pretty much look exactly like something a SWAT guy would be carrying.

We live in an area where people do have guns for self defense (and unfortunately some young boys have them to be "cool"), but people do also go hunting out in the country. At one point SO and I considered getting a pistol for self defense because we were dealing with some serious threats on our lives and pertaining to our kids' safety. Ds has seen real guns before and he knows the difference and that they are never to be touched, EVER. So....I'm sort of middle of the road.


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## Ldavis24 (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> 
> No, those are the contexts in which they can be used. Their purpose is to kill some living thing. Home defense is killing a living thing to protect yourself. Hunting is killing a living thing to eat (hopefully... I shudder to think people here would do it for sport). And target shooting is nothing but the practice arena to make sure that when you pull the trigger you DO kill that thing you are aiming at. That's not recreation. I don't have any problem with hunting for food and I'm not a vegetarian. But saying that guns are fun is kind of sick IME. Taking the life of any living thing isn't "fun", even if it's for sustenance.


Honestly you are mincing words because what you are describing is STRICTLY recreation to many MANY people...Many people who target shoot aren't EVER going to kill something so yeah it is for FUN...

Just because you personally don't WANT it to be recreation doesn't make it not recreation...And yeah shooting can be fun. Sorry but it is....Shooting an animal isn't "fun" but it is rewarding in ways you can't understand unless you have killed something yourself and then eaten that thing...

Your own personal objections to people using these words, and your own personal objections to guns, is making it hard for you to accept that your definition of shooting and gun use and what is and isn't ok to say about it is incredibly narrow...very very narrow... Guns are fun for a lot of people who don't even kill animals ever. I don't think it's sick at all.

It is frustrating when people take their own personal objections about an activity and twist that activity into something horrible/wrong or in your words SICK.


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## mamaboss (Jul 23, 2008)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *velochic* 

No, those are the contexts in which they can be used. Their purpose is to kill some living thing. Home defense is killing a living thing to protect yourself. Hunting is killing a living thing to eat (hopefully... I shudder to think people here would do it for sport). And target shooting is nothing but the practice arena to make sure that when you pull the trigger you DO kill that thing you are aiming at. That's not recreation. I don't have any problem with hunting for food and I'm not a vegetarian. But saying that guns are fun is kind of sick IME. Taking the life of any living thing isn't "fun", even if it's for sustenance.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ldavis24*
> 
> Honestly you are mincing words because what you are describing is STRICTLY recreation to many MANY people...Many people who target shoot aren't EVER going to kill something so yeah it is for FUN...
> 
> ...


Sorry, I just wanted to say thanks. I didn't really know how to respond to all that but I felt a little insulted so I appreciate and agree with what you said.


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## mamakah (Nov 5, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ldavis24*
> 
> Honestly you are mincing words because what you are describing is STRICTLY recreation to many MANY people...Many people who target shoot aren't EVER going to kill something so yeah it is for FUN...
> 
> ...


I would agree with this if you (a general you, not you specifically) just went to a shooting range, rented a gun for an hour and fired off some rounds, then went home to your gun free home. But it goes beyond that. In my experience, people don't buy guns for target practice. I'm from MT, where DH and I are a rare type to be anti gun. Everyone I know who owns guns owns them for hunting, or self defense. Sure, they go to the shooting range for fun every other weekend, but they didn't buy those guns for target practice. Some of them are my friends and I know they are safe with their guns and would never seek to kill anyone, but they will also admit that if someone comes into their house, they are grabbing their gun...to defend themselves...in other words shoot someone.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamakah*
> 
> I would agree with this if you (a general you, not you specifically) just went to a shooting range, rented a gun for an hour and fired off some rounds, then went home to your gun free home. But it goes beyond that. In my experience, people don't buy guns for target practice. I'm from MT, where DH and I are a rare type to be anti gun. Everyone I know who owns guns owns them for hunting, or self defense. Sure, they go to the shooting range for fun every other weekend, but they didn't buy those guns for target practice. Some of them are my friends and I know they are safe with their guns and would never seek to kill anyone, but they will also admit that if someone comes into their house, they are grabbing their gun...to defend themselves...in other words shoot someone.


Different strokes. I've known many people who target shoot (tried it once, but I suck at it - probably at least partly because I lack depth perception), and none of them own a gun with the intent to shoot anybody or any animal or anything else, except targets. The ones who keep their guns at home have them locked away and they're certainly not available to grab if someone breaks into their house. The guns are purely for recreational target shooting (and collecting, in a couple cases).

I'm not in the US, and I've only ever known a few people who owned guns for anything but target shooting (this was when I was younger and had some...rough friends). They're just not very common around here. But, a fair number of people like to shoot targets.


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## Ldavis24 (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamakah*
> 
> I would agree with this if you (a general you, not you specifically) just went to a shooting range, rented a gun for an hour and fired off some rounds, then went home to your gun free home. But it goes beyond that. In my experience, people don't buy guns for target practice. I'm from MT, where DH and I are a rare type to be anti gun. Everyone I know who owns guns owns them for hunting, or self defense. Sure, they go to the shooting range for fun every other weekend, but they didn't buy those guns for target practice. Some of them are my friends and I know they are safe with their guns and would never seek to kill anyone, but they will also admit that if someone comes into their house, they are grabbing their gun...to defend themselves...in other words shoot someone.


what exactly is wrong with any of that?

What is wrong with hunting or having a gun in self defense (not my choice for owning a gun since ours will be locked up anyway) if you feel you need that?

You said all these things like they were so wrong but a lot, most even, don't think those are BAD things...

Owning a gun to hunt and shoot is not wrong IMO..

Owning a gun for home defense (which yes means possibly killing an intruder) is not something I would ever do but it is not wrong. Self defense is not wrong, but again I wouldn't ever use a gun for self defense because there is no redo button if you accidentally shoot say your teenager sneaking in the house in the middle of the night.

If the owner is a responsible gun owner those activities will NEVER impact you unless you are breaking into that persons house...

Now gun violence in urban settings is a whole other horse..I personally could care less if handguns and semi automatic and automatic weapons are banned. I wouldn't be upset, but hunting rifles are just that HUNTING tools.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

**I have chosen to remove my response since this thread has now been linked to the Mothering Facebook page**


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamakah*
> 
> I would agree with this if you (a general you, not you specifically) just went to a shooting range, rented a gun for an hour and fired off some rounds, then went home to your gun free home. But it goes beyond that. In my experience, people don't buy guns for target practice. I'm from MT, where DH and I are a rare type to be anti gun. Everyone I know who owns guns owns them for hunting, or self defense. Sure, they go to the shooting range for fun every other weekend, but they didn't buy those guns for target practice. Some of them are my friends and I know they are safe with their guns and would never seek to kill anyone, but they will also admit that if someone comes into their house, they are grabbing their gun...to defend themselves...in other words shoot someone.


Well ya, if someone threatens your family I'd hope you'd defend yourself and your children. That is a completely normal reaction to threats against your life.


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## lulismom (Nov 26, 2009)

i've only had time to read a page of the replies, but i am so glad this discussion is happening as i am in the thick of it. i really hate (strong word, yes) guns, and wish they had never been invented. honestly. i do not fish or hunt or eat animals because the idea of killing an animal to eat its flesh makes me feel ill. this is my own personal thing and i am not judging meat eaters or hunters. my father and brothers fish and hunt. but, me, no can do. a big part of it is that i have lived in cities and seen the horrible effects of easy gun access, and i have had friends and friends of friends kill themselves with guns. i HATE guns.....

anyway, with all that, i have wondered what i would do about the 'toy' gun thing, especially water guns as i remember having lots of fun squirting my brothers with those, and do not ever remember thinking i was actually shooting or hurting or killing them with the water gun....at the same time, i do not want my children engaging in violent play of any sort and i do not want them thinking of guns as toys. my idea, until recently, was that we would have 'squirters'- really just atomizer bottles- to play water games with. then....

......here we are. i have a 4 year old girl who could not care less about guns at this point. but (the big but!) i have an almost 2 year old boy who is freaking obsessed with my nephew's water guns (at this point he hasn't yet seen my nephews 'real toy' gun collection). my son is just learning to talk and what i hear all day is 'adah gun'. my mom lives down the street and pooh poohs my 'no guns' rule, and says, 'he'll just turn a stick into a gun.' etc. and it kills me that she is right! anyway, she gave him one of my nephew's water guns. it doesn't look like a real gun- it's bright orange and bulbous and silly looking. and my son broke it so he's never actually squirted water from it (it's now covered in packing tape that says 'sweetie' with red hearts) but he walks around saying, 'skurt skurt' and even takes the stupid thing to bed. his first words upon waking? 'adah gun', of course. i don't know what to do. my (passive, unsure) stance at this point is to just let him do whatever he wants with this one gun, call it a squirter, and not make a big deal about it one way or another. but i don't know WHAT THE HELL to do as we go along. i do talk constantly about how we do not hurt each other, in all sorts of contexts, but i haven't really talked about that in relaltion to this 'squirter'. maybe i am in denial, thinking if i pretend it's not a toy gun, then it's not a toy gun. sigh. for now i will just read and digest all the varying opinions in this discussion, and take it from there. sigh, again

oh, one other realted thing that really, really scares me is that i have a sometimes unstable SIL who has guns, and i heard a story (from a reliable source) about her carrying a gun in her purse wherever she goes. including family parties with houses full of children, mine included. what do i do about THAT????


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## Ldavis24 (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lulismom*
> 
> i've only had time to read a page of the replies, but i am so glad this discussion is happening as i am in the thick of it. i really hate (strong word, yes) guns, and wish they had never been invented. honestly. i do not fish or hunt or eat animals because the idea of killing an animal to eat its flesh makes me feel ill. this is my own personal thing and i am not judging meat eaters or hunters. my father and brothers fish and hunt. but, me, no can do. a big part of it is that i have lived in cities and seen the horrible effects of easy gun access, and i have had friends and friends of friends kill themselves with guns. i HATE guns.....
> 
> ...


for all my pro-gun blabber I am incredibly uncomfortable with something like that..I don't believe hand guns have a purpose like hunting rifles and someone having a concealed weapon freaks me out even though they are out there...First of all does your SIL have a concealed carry PERMIT?? If not, I believe it is a felony, someone can correct me if I am wrong..

Second, I would just tell her that we will not be in her presence while she has her gun on her...it is her choice to carry her gun but your choice not to be around her when she is packing her pistol at the kids birthday party...That is so incredibly wrong on so many levels.

THAT is how kids accidently shoot each other..Auntie leaves the purse laying around, a kid opens it and then shoots another kid by accident...


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## Dandelionkid (Mar 6, 2007)

I was really anti-gun until my son got older. It is such a common way for boys to play- they make guns out of their hands if not shooting with a toy gun. I draw the line at replica toy guns so far but I have no problem with my kids playing shooting games if everyone is having fun. Even my 2 yr old likes to pretend to "die" as she gets shot with the latest imaginary gun. I highly doubt this desensitizes kids to real violence. My son is one of the sweetest kids I know but he also has a strong drive to be the "warrior" in his imaginary games. I feel like squashing this drive would somehow block an important part of his development.


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## Dandelionkid (Mar 6, 2007)

I'm curious how those with aversions to toy-guns allow their sons to express their inner warrior? Do you only allow hand-to-hand combat or play swords? How do your boys express that part of themselves?


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dandelionkid*
> 
> I'm curious how those with aversions to toy-guns allow their sons to express their inner warrior? Do you only allow hand-to-hand combat or play swords? How do your boys express that part of themselves?


My son apparently has no inner warrior! Seriously the issue has never come up with us. I suspect my son is a bit of an oddity -- but when the neighborhood boys start playing games with their nerf guns and their marshmallow guns (a waste of really good marshmallows!), my child comes home. He's never expressed an interest in swords, guns, wrestling or any contact sport. Just how odd is that?

(And FWIW, I'm opposed to guns that look like guns. If they want to make guns out of sticks or legos, fine.)


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## babymommy2 (May 14, 2009)

I gave up on no guns when one of my children used a heart shaped magnet as a gun. At that point I realized that it is biological and i was just being uptight. After all, I and my siblings and every other child I knew growing up occasioanlly played at killing each other with pretend gun sword, bomb, etc. and none grew up to be sociopaths. Now we have nerf guns, water guns, little tiny lego and playmobile guns, guns from the dollar store, as well as guns made from sticks, straw connectors, lego, knex, food, fingers.


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## SubliminalDarkness (Sep 9, 2009)

We don't allow guns, or weapons of any kind. I am personally pretty adamantly opposed to the ownership of weapons across the board, especially guns.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dandelionkid*
> 
> I'm curious how those with aversions to toy-guns allow their sons to express their inner warrior? Do you only allow hand-to-hand combat or play swords? How do your boys express that part of themselves?


Nope, there's no fighting allowed, period.

I guess I just don't believe they have an "inner warrior." Yes, I read the article/book/all that. I just don't buy into it.


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## Dandelionkid (Mar 6, 2007)

When I talk about "inner warrior" I don't mean to reference that book- I never read it, skimmed it, don't know if I agree with the author or not- I am simply describing my son.

What I mean is the part of him that wants to protect and rescue and fight and conquer. He definitely has "that gene". I don't know how he would express it without using some sort of symbolic weaponry, even if just his hands. He does not have replica toy guns yet (I don't count nerf and water guns) but I won't deny him his desire to be a powerful 5 yr old warrior.


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## lulismom (Nov 26, 2009)

"for all my pro-gun blabber I am incredibly uncomfortable with something like that..I don't believe hand guns have a purpose like hunting rifles and someone having a concealed weapon freaks me out even though they are out there...First of all does your SIL have a concealed carry PERMIT?? If not, I believe it is a felony, someone can correct me if I am wrong..

Second, I would just tell her that we will not be in her presence while she has her gun on her...it is her choice to carry her gun but your choice not to be around her when she is packing her pistol at the kids birthday party...That is so incredibly wrong on so many levels.

THAT is how kids accidently shoot each other..Auntie leaves the purse laying around, a kid opens it and then shoots another kid by accident..."

I KNOW! it totally freaks me out. she probably does have a concealed carry permit but she lives in a different state than we do and i was told that it is against the law to transport a handgun across state lines, and i don't know if the conceal permit from her state is even valid in this state?? i really don't know about gun laws. anyway, my mother told her she was not to bring a gun into her home (and that is where we would see her) but, honestly, i don't know that my SIL wouldn't just do it anyway and not say anything. it freaks me out.


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## KempsMama (Dec 1, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> 
> No, those are the contexts in which they can be used. Their purpose is to kill some living thing. Home defense is killing a living thing to protect yourself. Hunting is killing a living thing to eat (hopefully... I shudder to think people here would do it for sport). And target shooting is nothing but the practice arena to make sure that when you pull the trigger you DO kill that thing you are aiming at. That's not recreation. I don't have any problem with hunting for food and I'm not a vegetarian. But saying that guns are fun is kind of sick IME. Taking the life of any living thing isn't "fun", even if it's for sustenance.


Well, then, call me sick. I like fishing too. That must make me a total whacko. I'll keep this short, I have some yummy trout to eat that my hubby had a BLAST catching.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lulismom*
> 
> I KNOW! it totally freaks me out. she probably does have a concealed carry permit but she lives in a different state than we do and i was told that it is against the law to transport a handgun across state lines, and i don't know if the conceal permit from her state is even valid in this state??


It's not against the law to transport a handgun across state lines, and many states have reciprocity laws that recognize conceal carry permits from other states, it varies from state to state though so you need to check what is applicable where you live.


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## Smokering (Sep 5, 2007)

I don't have a hugely nuanced opinion on guns - living in NZ probably has something to do with that - but on the "guns aren't fun" theme, I've always wanted to go to a shooting range and try my hand at shooting. I've never so much as seen a gun in real life, let alone handled one, and I don't think I have sociopathic tendencies; nor do I have any desire to hunt animals for food, for reasons of pure squeamishness. But target practice? I think I'd very much like to have a go. Because it sounds fun.

On a vaguely related note, my friend's little brother shot someone's eye out playing paintball a few years ago. It was totally the other guy's fault - he took off his helmet suddenly in the middle of the battlefield - but still, gahhh.


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## Interrobang (May 15, 2011)

I don't disallow them, but neither do I encourage them. If my daughters want to play with them, I'm okay with it. We talk about it, why real guns are problematic and the destruction they cause, that they should never touch a real gun and to leave if someone tries to show them one. I won't insult their intelligence by assuming that they don't understand the difference between real and play, or that because they like pink guns that shoot water means they're going to somehow magically turn homicidal or suicidal. To me, that's as silly as thinking that if I let them play with a remote control helicopter, that'll make them think they're pilots.


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## Mrs. Bratton (Jan 27, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ldavis24*
> 
> Honestly you are mincing words because what you are describing is STRICTLY recreation to many MANY people...Many people who target shoot aren't EVER going to kill something so yeah it is for FUN...
> 
> ...


Thank you. I was just about to say she is just splitting hairs over the terms used. We own guns under the assumption that they will purely be used for target practice and it is FUN. We do have one handgun that could be accessible (in its own small safe in our room that has a quick code you punch in) in case we would need it for home defense but we kind of assume/hope we will never have to use it. We definitely COULD if it came to it but we aren't itching to be in that situation at all, lol. It is strictly a hobby for target shooting and we don't target shoot as practice for shooting people. We do it for the pure fun of target shooting. Of course, if you own a gun for home defense you need to know how to properly use it or it just puts you in more danger but we would target shoot even if we didn't own a gun. We did it before we owned our own guns.

I say "we", it's really my husbands hobby but I tag along once in a blue moon. We rarely can both go since I usually have DD with me.


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## aHikaru (Apr 12, 2011)

no guns in the home= no problems, period.


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

We let kids have toy guns that blink or shoot nerf stuff. If a gun is manufactured to look like a real gun, it doesnt come in my house unless it is, indeed, a real gun. Real guns should look like real guns, toy guns shouldnt look anything like real guns.


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## mamakah (Nov 5, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ldavis24*
> 
> what exactly is wrong with any of that?
> 
> ...


I was under the impression that the argument was about whether or not guns were made for killing. It seemed as if it was going back and forth between, "They are made for killing!" and "They can be recreational without killing!" I was making the point that in the long run, they are meant to kill. I have no problems with hunting, like I said I'm from MT where many families rely on their venison meat during the winter. All I was saying is that no matter how you use it, a gun is made for and usually purchased for killing something.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamakah*
> 
> I was under the impression that the argument was *about whether or not guns were made for killing*. It seemed as if it was going back and forth between, "They are made for killing!" and "They can be recreational without killing!" I was making the point that in the long run, they are meant to kill. I have no problems with hunting, like I said I'm from MT where many families rely on their venison meat during the winter. All I was saying is that no matter how you use it, a gun is made for and usually purchased for killing something.


Yes, this was the point I was making. I mean, you can't make bread with a gun, now can you? What can you do with it other than fire bullets that are meant to rip flesh? Nothing. I could probably kill someone with my rolling pin, though, because it's marble... but it was made to help me make bread. It's purpose is not to kill. Something that is not intended to kill can be turned into a weapon (a car, a rolling pin, a baseball bat), but we don't pretend play killing with those, do we? Guns were invented to kill. Period. I don't think they should be "toys" for pretend killing or shooting any more than I think my rolling pin should be used as a toy weapon to pretend killing. To me, pretend shooting or shooting for fun is no different than pretend killing with a rolling pin.

Like I said, my dad was an avid hunter and still has many guns. I grew up with them. I'm not saying to not have guns for hunting, and that practice is needed to do that well. But, just firing off a gun for fun doesn't make sense to me if you're not planning to ever use it to kill. JMO. I was always told to never point a gun at anything unless you're willing to kill it... and that extended to toy guns, as well, for us. Different strokes for different folks, but I think that gun play (and I include video games in this, too) is dangerous because it anesthetizes kids to the consequences.


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## hildare (Jul 6, 2009)

already posted once, but having to interject to call attention and call folks out about the hunting thing. it's very classist to assume that ALL people can afford to be vegetarian or whatever. for some people, the only meat and a large part of their diet comes from what can be found or harvested. i know people who have eaten roadkill gladly. so.. think about it, is all.


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

We don't have toy guns. We have real guns in our house and I don't want any confusion. However, my boys are boys and they can turn anything into a gun. We do have rules about that, no shooting people and no pointing them at people. Same rules we have for real guns.


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## mommy212 (Mar 2, 2010)

I don't know about guns in young childhood yet, but my mom didn't just buy my LO an adorable wooden bow and arrow set made by a local craftsman here. He is way too young for it, but she wanted to buy it and save it until he is old enough. I am a little bit country, though not really raised that way just leaning that way. Once DS is twelve DH wants to buy him a BB gun. Later he wants to take him hunting, though most likely it will be bow hunting since that is what we do. So back to the issue of toy guns in the home... I probably will not buy my own kids any but if we are at a friends house I won't drag my kid away and make a scene. I don't like to promote violence but when he is old enough, if he wants to, he will hunt. We eat meat and I feel it is right to know where it comes from.


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## Shaki (Mar 15, 2006)

Well I live in a big city in the U.S. Guns in my experience are only for killing, hurting, and threatening people. That's how they are used where I live. I am frightened of gun violence and wish that guns were not legal. For all the responsible gun owners out there, there are many other people who get their guns illegally (including stealing them from responsible gun owners) and use them violently. On top of urban street violence there are also some people who have come to view gun violence (shooting up a school, mall, park, restaurant, etc) as a viable means of self expression and these people can also easily get guns. Also for me even if my children were friends with kids whose parents were super responsible and careful gun owners I would STILL be concerned. Even if both my child and the gun owner's child were aware of gun safety what it a 3rd child is there who is not? What if that child somehow gets their hands on the family's gun? I know many people would say that just would never happen in their home, and maybe it wouldn't. But it could happen in someone else's home. As a parent I don't think I can safely make a judgement about which gun owner's house is absolutely safe and which is not. For my families safety I have to make the assumption that any home with guns (or real weapons of any kind) is not as safe as a home that is weapon free. I don't mean any disrespect to the gun owning Mama's on this thread. I understand that gun ownership looks different to rural families, families that hunt etc. There are many avid hunters in DH's family, these are good responsible people. I understand that this is a complex issue.

I have observed boys engaged in gun play and do think there is a big difference between pretend play and real guns. I don't know yet how I'll handle pretend guns with my DS but I have discussed the difference with DD who will occasionally shoot a stick when playing with other kids. My sister and I had squirt guns and nerf guns growing up, we played with them and shot at each other and our friends and I grew up to have a strong anti gun perspective. So I question whether a flat out ban on play weapons in our home is needed. I don't see myself buying toy guns for my kids, but I also don't see myself telling them they can't pretend the stick they are holding is a gun.

I have noticed in this thread that many people have set the limit of no shooting at people or animals with pretend guns. Can someone explain the nuances of this to me? I kind of don't understand it. From what I've observed of kids playing the whole point is to shoot at someone. How does pretend play with guns work if you are not shooting bad guys and stuff like that?

It seems like people in this thread are concerned about teaching their kids not to shoot people which I'm all in favor of (of course) but what i haven't seen much of in this thread is people being worried about their child being shot at. That's what I worry about though. am I the only one?


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## mamaboss (Jul 23, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shaki*
> 
> Well I live in a big city in the U.S. Guns in my experience are only for killing, hurting, and threatening people. That's how they are used where I live. I am frightened of gun violence and wish that guns were not legal. For all the responsible gun owners out there, there are many other people who get their guns illegally (including stealing them from responsible gun owners) and use them violently. On top of urban street violence there are also some people who have come to view gun violence (shooting up a school, mall, park, restaurant, etc) as a viable means of self expression and these people can also easily get guns. Also for me even if my children were friends with kids whose parents were super responsible and careful gun owners I would STILL be concerned. Even if both my child and the gun owner's child were aware of gun safety what it a 3rd child is there who is not? What if that child somehow gets their hands on the family's gun? I know many people would say that just would never happen in their home, and maybe it wouldn't. But it could happen in someone else's home. As a parent I don't think I can safely make a judgement about which gun owner's house is absolutely safe and which is not. For my families safety I have to make the assumption that any home with guns (or real weapons of any kind) is not as safe as a home that is weapon free. I don't mean any disrespect to the gun owning Mama's on this thread. I understand that gun ownership looks different to rural families, families that hunt etc. There are many avid hunters in DH's family, these are good responsible people. I understand that this is a complex issue.
> 
> ...


I absolutely worry about this, which is exactly why we teach DD what we can about gun safety. As I stated up thread, for now at the understanding of a 3 yo and more as her she is older.

As for not pointing a gun at real people/animals during play, I suppose in a way that is saying at a child's level of understanding, guns can hurt. They will usually ask why and you explain as best you can. I think people seem very afraid that if their child is playing with a toy gun they will automatically intend to hurt. I honestly believe that (the intent to hurt with a weapon) is a learned behavior, not instinct. Most of the time when DD is playing with her's she's just walking around with it. Sometimes she points at the window or wall because at this point she understands not to point it at someone. If she is ever playing with another child and they happen to point a gun at her or someone else, she is very quick to stop it and tell them it's not ok and why, in the same way she would if the other child is hitting her or something. (Sorry, I'm not very eloquent, so I hope my explanation makes sense!)

And I would have no problem, if when she's older and going to play at someone else's home, asking if they had firearms in the house and if so, are they sure all are locked in a safe place away from access of children. Because you're absolutely right, I can teach her everything I can but I can't account for what someone else has or has not taught their own child.

Just to touch on one more point from the start of your comment, that is slightly OT, you mention you wish guns were illegal. That is one problem I have with most anti-gun advocates. They think somehow the world would be safer if you or I couldn't legally purchase a gun. But, like you stated, those who intend to hurt or kill with a gun rarely, if ever acquire them legally. I would guess that stealing from a legal gun owner is much less common than illegal gun sales. But if guns were completely banned, the criminals will still have them and that to me is much less safe. Anyway...


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## Chicky2 (May 29, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ldavis24*
> 
> this isn't at anyone in particular but why is that hunting and guns are associated with hicks/********/whatever you want to call them...
> 
> I think choosing to learn how to hunt and provide for the family as well as how to handle guns properly is a good thing no matter who you are...The association with hicks/******** just makes people sound less intelligent....


Um, we proudly say we are a funky mix of homebirthin'homeschoolin'homesteadin'redneckedhippies here. We happen to know lots of ********, and some may well view them as unintelligent, sure, but if ya take the time to get to KNOW them, ya might find out that they are indeed very intelligent, just in different ways. We've had agricultural emergencies here and have had those ******** save our butts (or our livestock's) because of their experience and know-how. Just like beauty, intelligence is in the eye of the beholder. I may not have lots of book smarts, but I am a very capable and smart woman, and that's what I find in "********". They just have a different way of going about things.

Speaking of ******** shooting things out their windows, just yesterday I woke up and went into the kitchen to make coffee. I thought I was alone until my dh said, "mornin' Baby" and I jumped a foot and almost dropped the coffee pot. I turned around to find him laying on his belly w/his rifle propped up on the window sill (low to the ground). The screen was on the ground outside and he was waiting for one of the numerous cougars/bobcats/coyotes to show up waiting to eat one of our birds, or possibly our new goat kid. We can't allow that, now can we, since those birds feed our children, and the goat will give us milk later? As far as we're concerned, those predators can just go find a wild rabbit or something.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hildare*
> 
> already posted once, but having to interject to call attention and call folks out about the hunting thing. it's very classist to assume that ALL people can afford to be vegetarian or whatever. for some people, the only meat and a large part of their diet comes from what can be found or harvested. i know people who have eaten roadkill gladly. so.. think about it, is all.


Thank you for this. Some people may find it "wrong" that we kill wild pigs. Ok, that's one way of looking at it I suppose, but our way of looking at it is different. We are a) helping w/a HUGE problem and a very dangerous one, b) putting food in our kids' bellies, and c) exposing our children to a life skill they will likely use to help feed their own children oneday.

Our guns are mostly for killing. We kill so we can eat, and eat good too! We kill our own rabbits, goats, ducks, guineas, chickens, pigs, and yes, squirrel. We also use them as tools. Yes, another tool can be used sometimes, but sometimes a gun gets the job done faster, and yes, in a more fun way. A good example would be my raised beds. I have old freezers and my dh removed the compressors and all that, and then he took the kids out back to use their .22 to shoot drainage holes in the freezers. Worked like a charm, they spent good quality time w/Daddy, I got my freezer beds up way sooner than I would have if he'd just drilled holes.

Our kids have very few toy guns. They only have a couple of cheapo water pistols. They WANT super fantastic expensive water guns, but I don't feel like spending the $ on that. I have no fear that my children (even the youngest) can't tell and respect the difference between our real guns and the squirt toys. They have known and seen animals being dispatched all their lives. They know it has to happen for them to eat, and they respect those animals, and the guns that kill them.

FTR, my dd trapped a possum last night and it is currently waiting for my dh to dispatch it tonight. (it has water and food, we are not mean people). That possum has one of two destinies-1) dispatched and tossed for the buzzards to eat, or 2) I may actually cook it. I never have before, but who am I to turn down a meal when I know plenty of people over the years have eaten them....


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## mamaboss (Jul 23, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chicky2*
> 
> *Um, we proudly say we are a funky mix of homebirthin'homeschoolin'homesteadin'redneckedhippies here.* We happen to know lots of ********, and some may well view them as unintelligent, sure, but if ya take the time to get to KNOW them, ya might find out that they are indeed very intelligent, just in different ways. We've had agricultural emergencies here and have had those ******** save our butts (or our livestock's) because of their experience and know-how. Just like beauty, intelligence is in the eye of the beholder. I may not have lots of book smarts, but I am a very capable and smart woman, and that's what I find in "********". They just have a different way of going about things.










Love it!


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## Chicky2 (May 29, 2002)

LOL, thanks.

You know what? Funny thing is that when I was looking in the mirror I noticed that my neck is actually very red indeed today! LOL! We were putting up fencing all day yesterday and I was wearing a t-shirt and my hair was up.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mommy212*
> 
> I don't know about guns in young childhood yet, but my mom didn't just buy my LO an adorable wooden bow and arrow set made by a local craftsman here. He is way too young for it, but she wanted to buy it and save it until he is old enough. I am a little bit country, though not really raised that way just leaning that way. Once DS is twelve DH wants to buy him a BB gun. Later he wants to take him hunting, though most likely it will be bow hunting since that is what we do. So back to the issue of toy guns in the home... I probably will not buy my own kids any but if we are at a friends house I won't drag my kid away and make a scene. I don't like to promote violence but when he is old enough, if he wants to, he will hunt. We eat meat and I feel it is right to know where it comes from.


The bow and arrow reminds me of this story dh told me. He grew up in Turkey and the "spaghetti westerns" of the 50's and 60's were very popular there when he was growing up. They played a lot of "cowboys and indians" when he was a child (he's in his mid 50's now, so a generation older than a majority of parents here). A favorite weapon toy was the bow and arrow when playing these games. Well, one day, two of these boys (not dh) rang their neighbor's doorbell and when the man opened the door, they shot him in the eye with their toy bow and arrow and put out his eye. They were just playing, but didn't understand the consequences. Luckily, the little boys weren't strong enough to shoot the arrow into his brain, so he was just blinded in the one eye, but he could have died. But that right there is a perfect example of children misunderstanding the difference between play and real... and why toy weapons can be dangerous "toys" and why I advocate that if you have them, to teach children that they are weapons and not toys in any context.


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

I used to believe that all boys were going to play guns, since most boys I knew did. Then I had a boy. He's 8. I don't think I've ever seen him make a toy gun or pick up anyone else's toy gun. When he had a friend who liked weapons, he started to pretend that he was building weapons, but at one point I overheard him saying, "My weapon is your weapon's pet!"







People unclear on the concept.

On some level he is really not much of a warrior. A builder, yes--he's made two different swords at camp, one a giant bopper covered with duct tape--and he enjoys waving them around. I've never observed him to intentionally hit anyone with them, even in play. When I was a girl, I enjoyed playing Robin Hood and so on, with sticks, but my child isn't me.

I think my husband would prohibit toy guns, since he wasn't allowed to play with them as a child, but what I'm saying is, it's never come up.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dandelionkid*
> 
> I'm curious how those with aversions to toy-guns allow their sons to express their inner warrior? Do you only allow hand-to-hand combat or play swords? How do your boys express that part of themselves?


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> 
> The bow and arrow reminds me of this story dh told me. He grew up in Turkey and the "spaghetti westerns" of the 50's and 60's were very popular there when he was growing up. They played a lot of "cowboys and indians" when he was a child (he's in his mid 50's now, so a generation older than a majority of parents here). A favorite weapon toy was the bow and arrow when playing these games. Well, one day, two of these boys (not dh) rang their neighbor's doorbell and when the man opened the door, they shot him in the eye with their toy bow and arrow and put out his eye. They were just playing, but didn't understand the consequences. Luckily, the little boys weren't strong enough to shoot the arrow into his brain, so he was just blinded in the one eye, but he could have died. But that right there is a perfect example of children misunderstanding the difference between play and real... and why toy weapons can be dangerous "toys" and why I advocate that if you have them, to teach children that they are weapons and not toys in any context.


If the "toy" arrow could shoot out someone's eye, then it wasn't a toy - it was a weapon. The boys can't be expected to understand a difference (between toys and weapons), when thre isn't one! DS1 has owned many toy guns over the years, and they were toys. The only way he could have hurt anyone with them was if he threw them. I don't get what this story has to do with kids pointing toy weapons at each other.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> 
> But, just firing off a gun for fun doesn't make sense to me if you're not planning to ever use it to kill. JMO.


What does making sense have to do with it? If people find it fun to shoot targets, they find it fun to shoot targets. You might as well wonder why people bowl for fun, when they're never going to use their ability to roll a heavy ball at a target for any practical purpose. Or, why people do jigsaw puzzles for fun, when they're never going to use their skill at fitting things together in a practicaly way. People target shoot for fun, because they enjoy the challenge of trying to hit what they aim at. It doesn't have to make sense, because it's about a recreational activitiy. Different people enjoy different things (you couldn't pay me to play team sports, but my SIL beats herself up on brutal soccer matches - and loves it! - every weekend)...and for some people, that includes target shooting.


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

The whole question of what people use guns for seems like a red herring to me. Having a real gun in the house for whatever reason is dangerous for children. I was thinking that pediatricians often ask whether there are guns in the home--it's one of the screening questions they ask, like whether people in the house smoke. Apparently in several states there are legislators who want to make it a crime for doctors to ask whether the family has guns, because doing so might discourage families from owning guns. There are laws in many states to make sure parents store guns safely, to reduce the risk of harm to children.

We have a right to bear arms in the US because that way, our government can't impose itself on us violently. That's great, but you know what? The US has an embarrassingly high death rate from the use of guns. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate (Israel, where a huge percentage of citizens serve in the army and have weapons under their beds, has a lower rate of gun deaths per 10,000 people than we do!) A very large percentage of gun deaths in the US are accidental. Accidental deaths by firearms are much higher for children than for adults.

Not sure how this relates to the toy weapons question, since it's more about the risk of accidents with guns than it is about the risk of becoming a violent adult. I just think as parents it's something we have to think about. By the same token, we need to think about car seats and seatbelts, since car accidents cause even more accidental deaths and injuries in children. The other thing parents have to worry about is the added risk of teen suicide with guns in the house--but again, not toy guns.


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shaki*
> 
> I have noticed in this thread that many people have set the limit of no shooting at people or animals with pretend guns. Can someone explain the nuances of this to me? I kind of don't understand it. From what I've observed of kids playing the whole point is to shoot at someone. How does pretend play with guns work if you are not shooting bad guys and stuff like that?
> 
> It seems like people in this thread are concerned about teaching their kids not to shoot people which I'm all in favor of (of course) but what i haven't seen much of in this thread is people being worried about their child being shot at. That's what I worry about though. am I the only one?


Because you never point a real gun at people either. This is why we don't do toy guns. Guns are real and dangerous and should be respected, not played with. Even if they are plastic. I do worry about my kids being shot at. That's why we teach gun safety. We live in a very rural area and most people do own guns, so we go on the assumption that every house does have a gun and teach our children what to do should they ever see one.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> If the "toy" arrow could shoot out someone's eye, then it wasn't a toy - it was a weapon. The boys can't be expected to understand a difference (between toys and weapons), when thre isn't one! DS1 has owned many toy guns over the years, and they were toys. The only way he could have hurt anyone with them was if he threw them. I don't get what this story has to do with kids pointing toy weapons at each other.


No, both were made by hand with tree branches... kids in Turkey in the 60's didn't have manufactured bows and arrows.

You're right that a kid can't know the difference between a toy and a real weapon. EXACTLY. That is the very point I'm making.

The point of this having kids point "TOY" weapons at each other is that they are not of an age to accurately ascertain if something is a toy of if it's something that can cause actual harm. In my area we just had a 9 yo boy kill his 7yo brother with a shotgun that they were playing "cops and robbers" with. The father is a hunter and had taken all of the precautions... ammunition apart from weapons, locked and keys on his key ring. They managed to get the key and get the weapon and get it loaded while the father slept. They thought they were just PLAYING. It's not the pointing of the toy weapons... it's the fact that kids become anesthetized against REALITY.

A gun is a weapon. It isn't a toy. As I said before, would you let your kids pretend to kill each other with baseball bats or a cast iron pan? Probably not because they're not weapons and they are not toys. So why do we let children turn weapons into toys? I don't think they should and I really don't give a damn if anyone agrees with me... but my child won't be playing at that person's house, either, if they don't agree with me.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> What does making sense have to do with it?


Everything.


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## beckybird (Mar 29, 2009)

We have guns in the house. Our son has toy guns as well. We keep the real guns safely locked up. As long as the government upholds the constitution and the 2nd Amendment, we will be able to keep our guns. We use the toy guns to teach our son gun responsibility.

If guns are outlawed, then only outlaws will have guns. Do you understand this? Yes, guns are weapons, used to kill. So, if a criminal comes to our home with intent to cause harm, we hope that we will be able to defend ourselves with our guns.

That sums it up nicely.


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## goldenwillow (Jan 5, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuestionGal*
> 
> **I have chosen to remove my response since this thread has now been linked to the Mothering Facebook page**


I had no idea that Mothering was on Facebook. Whoa. I knew that Peggy challenged them regarding breastfeeding, which I am grateful for. I choose not to have a Facebook account. Thank you for sharing this.


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## mamaboss (Jul 23, 2008)

Precisely.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BeckyBird*
> 
> We have guns in the house. Our son has toy guns as well. We keep the real guns safely locked up. As long as the government upholds the constitution and the 2nd Amendment, we will be able to keep our guns. We use the toy guns to teach our son gun responsibility.
> 
> ...


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuestionGal*
> 
> **I have chosen to remove my response since this thread has now been linked to the Mothering Facebook page**


Thank you for letting us know


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> 
> No, both were made by hand with tree branches... kids in Turkey in the 60's didn't have manufactured bows and arrows.
> 
> ...


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## HappyMommy2 (Jan 27, 2007)

Privacy Reminder: This thread is FEATURED ON FACEBOOK.


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## artekah (Apr 26, 2009)

Hi all, I'm the OP. Thanks for your responses--I am contemplating all the different viewpoints. At this point I am leaning towards instating a rule: no toy guns that even remotely resemble real guns. That's just common sense to me. I'm still not so clear on where to go from there. Obviously need to talk it over with my DH.

It seems to me that there is a huge difference in perception about guns (pretend and real) depending on one's personal experiences. When I was little my family lived in Miami, FL and my only experience with guns was people (not just on the news, but actually outside on the street where I lived) getting threatened, shot at, and even murdered. Women screaming, the sound of gunshots, paralyzing fear. Once an escaped convict on foot ran through our yard as he was running from police. He dropped his loaded automatic gun in our back yard and my mom flipped out because if the police hadn't found it there one of us kids could have stepped on it and set it off. And we didn't even live in a "bad" part of the city!

So my feelings of being disturbed about the idea of guns are deep-rooted and honestly quite rational. Especially since DH and I now live in another urban setting where guns are primarily used for violence and crime. Hunting is not something we do (in fact, aside from fish I don't eat meat) nor is it a part of our local culture. I have an instant, gut-reaction intense abhorrence to the very idea of guns. My DH has none of these feelings. He spent his whole childhood living in a very rural place and was exposed to guns (in person anyway) a lot more than I was but at the same time was not exposed to gun violence at all. At the same time he was also raised differently in that he grew up being more desensitized to violence in general (only boys in his family, war play was actively encouraged) whereas I was raised to be extra-sensitive to violence (my parents were peace-loving hippies.)

So he simply sees no problem where I see a huge problem! He understands in theory where I'm coming from but he can't truly understand the upsetting emotions involved--and similarly, I can't fathom how anyone could not have horrifying, upsetting associations with guns. So I really need to work with my DH until we're on the same page in regards to how to approach the gun issue with our kids. But anyway! That's just an issue of me & DH talking it out--sorry for rambling, just getting my thoughts out.

Regardless of what we decide in terms of "toy gun rules," I was wondering if I could get some more feedback from you thoughtful people:

1) How to teach a very little one (that is, current age 19 months) about gun safety? Is this too young to even talk to him about guns at all? I mean, he's going to learn about them sooner or later. I'm thinking we should approach it the same as any other dangerous thing, right? (Same as we would say, "fire is hot! knives are sharp! you can get hurt if you run in the road!") Other kids have toy guns even if we don't, so I really don't think sheltering him completely from the existence of guns, even at his young age, is a realistic or desirable option.

2) As many PPs have mentioned, I also played with squirt guns when I was little and it was great fun. I don't remember it ever seeming like a violent or harmful thing--just squirting each other with water, you know? When I think about it, I'm actually somewhat okay with toy guns in the form of neon-colored squirting devices. That said, my DS is still very little and I just don't like the idea of being the first one to expose him to toy guns, no matter how benign the neon-orange variety may be. Someone mentioned water-squirting toys that don't look like guns. This sounds good to me. Links anyone??


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

Didn't know we were going to be on FB.


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## artekah (Apr 26, 2009)

Re: Facebook...it's not like MDC was a closed private forum to start with. The Internet is public. Guess I don't see what the issue is?

They feature MDC threads on their Facebook page all the time. I assume most of the subscribers to the Facebook page are the same people already on MDC anyway.


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## MJB (Nov 28, 2009)

I finally gave in and gave my boys (8.5 and 5.5) Nerf guns in their easter baskets this year. I also allow squirt guns and bubble guns although I have never bought any-- they've gotten them on occasion from who knows where.

They aren't really into pretend guns (don't make them out of sticks/fingers/etc) but they love the Nerf ones. I loved Nerf guns and super soakers as a kid myself and I've never been in a physical confrontation in my life.


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## hildare (Jul 6, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *radicaleel*
> 
> It seems to me that there is a huge difference in perception about guns (pretend and real) depending on one's personal experiences.
> 
> ...


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## amandasue24 (May 23, 2011)

This is an interesting topic for me because I, too, am not sure where I stand on the matter. I'm about 20 weeks pregnant with my first child and my partner and I do own a (real) gun.

It disturbs me to see kids pointing guns at each other play-shooting; it bothers me to have a gun pointed at me, even a toy gun. I think the point mamaboss made about how guns ARE toys is true, though. I enjoy target practice; many people I know enjoy hunting for food - so in that way it can be seen as a toy. They are used as recreational devices, kinda like a baseball bat. I think it is possible to teach children that there certain toys must be used in certain ways, i.e. that baseball bats are used for hitting balls, not people or animals or that guns are used for target practice or hunting for food, not shooting people. And before a certain age, children should just not be exposed to toys that are dangerous, be it guns for small kids or pointy, small objects for toddlers.

Sometimes I feel that my views on guns are quite strange: I'm not okay with my child play fighting with guns in a combative style; I'm not okay with violence being used as play including swords and other violent tools (although I would probably make an exception for brightly colored water guns - I think a better alternative would be toys that make streams of water, but are not gun-shaped). But I AM okay with the idea that my child may one day use a real gun for target practice and have fun with it - using proper safety equipment and in a safe environment, of course. I'm okay with my child learning to hunt (for food) when they get older, but I'm not okay with my child doing "catch-and-release" fishing. In my mind, if you're not going to eat it, it's wrong to kill or harass it.

I hope this thread continues with constructive arguments - I'm open to new viewpoints and still have time to make up my mind about exactly how I feel on this issue.


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## peainthepod (Jul 16, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amandasue24*
> 
> Sometimes I feel that my views on guns are quite strange: I'm not okay with my child play fighting with guns in a combative style; I'm not okay with violence being used as play including swords and other violent tools (although I would probably make an exception for brightly colored water guns - I think a better alternative would be toys that make streams of water, but are not gun-shaped). But I AM okay with the idea that my child may one day use a real gun for target practice and have fun with it - using proper safety equipment and in a safe environment, of course.


Not strange at all, mama! We don't have toy guns because we have real guns. Guns aren't toys in our house any more than the chainsaw or the cars are toys. They have a useful purpose but they're also very dangerous machines if handled without the proper training and practice.

We follow the Kathy Jackson method of gun-proofing kids (as well as having redundant safe gun storage for every firearm in the house).

Also, the Eddie Eagle rules are simple and easy to understand and as absolutely terrible as this low quality cartoon is, my oldest loves it and repeats the chorus all the time.









I hope even parents who don't own guns will take the time to watch it--it's lifesaving material that has NOTHING to do with promoting gun ownership.


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## Smokering (Sep 5, 2007)

Quote:


> This is an interesting topic for me because I, too, am not sure where I stand on the matter. I'm about 20 weeks pregnant with my first child and my partner and I do own a (real) gun.


I'm gonna take a stand and say that 20 weeks is too young to be playing with guns. *nods sagely*


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## peainthepod (Jul 16, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Smokering*
> 
> I'm gonna take a stand and say that 20 weeks is too young to be playing with guns. *nods sagely*


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## Smokering (Sep 5, 2007)

Well, I'm glad that didn't offend you. I was afraid everyone would be all "Says you: all MY children have been using guns safely since the first trimester, because of the womb 'gators", and I would once again be ashamed of my sheltered and parochial upbringing.


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## amandasue24 (May 23, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Smokering*
> 
> I'm gonna take a stand and say that 20 weeks is too young to be playing with guns. *nods sagely*


Haha, indeed!

@peainthepod, thanks for the video link!


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## Tonia Starr (May 14, 2011)

I am very against guns. I wont llow them in my home, wether real or toys. I just don like them. I have talkd t length with my children about gun safety and aboutwhat to do if they find a gun or see one at a friends home or if a peer has one.

Tha being said, having 5 boys, it is near impossible to not have gun play. I try very hrd to limit what they watch in movies, etc.... but I find they can use astick or fashion a gun out of legos, etc...so we have two rules:no shooting to kill. I tell them to use laser guns in their imaginary play. these lser guns can shrink or freeze but no blood or death occurs. Also, they may not point their guns atPEOPLE or ANIMALS.Its only aliens and dinosurs.


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## les_oiseau (Apr 9, 2010)

subbing! my ds has been hanging out with kids in the family the same age and now he is "shooting" all the time, it's driving me crazy. look forward to coming back and getting ideas to deal with it.


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## mommy212 (Mar 2, 2010)

Well just think, kids (boys, really) have always been prized for being energetic, and encouraged to practice with weapons from an early age. i am talking stone age village kind of always. They probably still have some sort of biological need for it. Kids have hunted rabbits and birds and squirrels for thousands of years, not to mentioned fished, help butcher livestock, etc... I'm sure not all boys have this urge but I think it is definitely normal to want to. The point I think is that they learn things like sustaining yourself (hunting) protecting your loved ones (self defense) or discipline (practice/ martial arts) and not that violence is cool and fun.


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## Shaki (Mar 15, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mommy212* . The point I think is that they learn things like sustaining yourself (hunting) protecting your loved ones (self defense) or discipline (practice/ martial arts) and not that violence is cool and fun.


ITA. That is a great way to think about stuff that boys need to learn (girls too!). Guns are absolutely not essential for developing any of these life skills--even hunting can be done without them.


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## Koalamom (Dec 27, 2007)

I didn't actually read any of the pages except for the original post and will respond to that. I just don't have the time to read all the 7 pages but wanted to chime in. I used to be pro gun but that is changing. I respect others decisions to own guns, but my kids cannot ever play "guns". I will tell you all why. A few months ago, my 2 nephews were playing gun and found the real .22 in the house and bullets and the 3 yr old shot the 2 yr old and he died. They were playing bear hunt. I never thought this would happen to my family but it did. Guns are not toys!


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## umsami (Dec 1, 2003)

We allow squirt guns... but they may be used in the bathtub or outside only. (Well, ideally.)

I will say that even though I've never bought other toy guns, DS1, DS2, and DD have fashioned them out of mega blocks and trios. (Think a giant letter L.)

I think that violent media tends to encourage my kids to have violent behavior far more than a squirt gun or Lego gun... but that's just my experience. Still, I can't

see myself ever buying a BB gun... or even a plastic gun that looks like a "real" gun. I don't have a problem with them going to play paint ball when they're older...

or maybe buying some nerf guns.


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## umsami (Dec 1, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bluebirdmama1*
> 
> I didn't actually read any of the pages except for the original post and will respond to that. I just don't have the time to read all the 7 pages but wanted to chime in. I used to be pro gun but that is changing. I respect others decisions to own guns, but my kids cannot ever play "guns". I will tell you all why. A few months ago, my 2 nephews were playing gun and found the real .22 in the house and bullets and the 3 yr old shot the 2 yr old and he died. They were playing bear hunt. I never thought this would happen to my family but it did. Guns are not toys!


Buebirdmama, I'm so sorry for your loss. How heartbreaking.


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## umsami (Dec 1, 2003)

I think this is really a good point. Even if you don't have guns in your home, it doesn't mean that your kids' friends may not have guns in their home.

I think it's very important for all parents to teach their kids gun safety.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *peainthepod*
> 
> Not strange at all, mama! We don't have toy guns because we have real guns. Guns aren't toys in our house any more than the chainsaw or the cars are toys. They have a useful purpose but they're also very dangerous machines if handled without the proper training and practice.
> 
> ...


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## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

I am in Canada, so gun ownership isn't quite the same issue here. I don't allow toy guns for my children. No water guns or nerf guns either. Occasionally they will receive toys that have guns (like robots with weapons, etc). I don't take those things away, but they are not allowed to pretend to shoot people. I strongly oppose guns and therefore I feel it is important to uphold my beliefs in my home. I do allow sword play, it seems more historical and it isn't as though sword violence is an epidemic. Only two of my children have any desire to participate in that sort of play (the other two hate anything they consider to be violent play). I don't make a big deal of it, or sermonize anytime my 7 year old pretends to shoot me. He likes to test his boundaries and he understands my feelings on guns as I answer him simply and honestly when he asks. I just say, "you shot me with LOVE" and smother him with kisses. It gets boring for him fast. I don't want to make it more desirable by making a big deal of it.

I do allow them to play with toy guns at other people's houses. But no violent movies or video games. I feel moderation and me sticking to my principles will guide them more than making a big deal of it.

I grew up with guns in the house. My dad used to hunt, but at some point it began to feel wrong to him so he quit. He was very big on gun safety, he felt it was important that we learned too. My brothers had an assortment of bb and pellet guns. We grew up watching action movies and emulating what we saw. One day we played hijacker. I was the 'bad guy' and I was trying to hijack the bus (our old camperized school bus). My brother, the bus driver, pulled out his gun to protect his passengers.....a pellet gun that had been loaded with bbs. It was supposed to be empty and the safety was on but it went off and he shot me in the face. I still have the bb in my cheek, it shows up on dental x-rays. The nurse in the ER said her brother shot her with a pellet gun when she was young too. My dentist told me he has seen LOTS of people with bbs that show up on dental x-rays. It isn't like this was a scaring or traumatic event, in fact it is kind of a family joke now that we are grown. But it does remind me that even good, rule following, naturally cautious kids can do some pretty stupid things.

I think we can't always expect kids to use common sense and good judgment all the time. Even the kids who normally are rule followers (like I was). Guns are guns. Toys are toys. Other families choose differently, and they are exposed to toy guns in some of the houses they visit. Most people we know tend to feel like I do though, so it isn't really a big issue most of the time. We just discuss it as it comes up.


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