# Hope for the sleep-deprived.



## Bookworm (Oct 6, 2004)

My 14-month-old daughter woke up at least every hour (sometimes every 30-45 minutes) at night from the time she was 4 months until she was 9 months old. Yes, I'm being literal. Before that time, it was maybe every 1.5 hours. I was a zombie. I would visit MDC and read AP books, and it seemed like the answer was something along the lines of: it won't last forever. Well, I would lie on her playroom floor and not even interact with her, I was so tired. I couldn't drive a car to take her to playgroup anymore, which she loved. Yes, we co-slept, yes, we breastfed, no I could not just sleep through her nursing for a few seconds every hour. She got her sleeping problems form me and my husband, and both of our families, and by the time this was all over, my body was so messed up and I couldn't even fall back to sleep between nursings anymore, so I was sleeping almost none. That's not healthy, and not right.

I only read books with an AP focus before becoming a mother. I think those books are wonderful, but there are some (not unkind) things that the majority do because they WORK. An early bedtime. A strict, strict, strict bedtime routine that you don't deviate from (at least if you have a problem sleeper), such as dinner at the same time every single night, without once a week or even once a month chucking it all to go out for pizza, bath at the same time every night, books at the same time every night. My husband does the bath, and they even have "phases" with the toys, so our baby knows where they are in the bath process. And she does know, believe me! Same order of dressing - socks, diaper, onsie, but don't put the sleeper on until after we nurse and then always on the floor in front of the books we're about to read. Yes, we're that methodical about, something I couldn't have imagined before. My daughter now sleeps from 6:30 in the evening until 5:50 the next morning, sometimes waking up once to nurse, sometimes not. She's a sensitive sleeper, like both her mommy and her daddy. She needed her own space, and she needed to know EXACTLY what was going to happen next, and she needed to learn to go to sleep without my breast in her mouth. No, she wasn't all that happy about that, but she was never alone to cry - we always sang to her and patted her and comforted her. Now she knows how to sleep well, a gift I gave her, and now she has a vibrant, interactive Mommy who rolls around on the floor holding her in the air, her favorite game, and takes her to playgroup to be with the other babies.

No, we don't get to go out in the evenings - we miss the member gatherings for my local moms' group, we miss evening LLL events. We miss our annual UU church auction - formerly our social event of the year. We didn't go out of town for even a weekend with family for over 5 months after we got her sleeping well, because we didn't want to mess with her routine. When we did finally take a short trip, we recreated her bedtime routine in the hotel room. So, we have to make some sacrifices in our social activities - THAT'S something I'm willing to wait out and say it will pass. Sleeping and playing happily with my daughter are too important to wait years for.

I'm posting this here not because I agree with people who don't want to wake up a few times a night to nurse their three-month-old. I disagree with that, and think they SHOULD wait and let the baby grow out of it. But if your child is truly a problem sleeper, and that, to me, doesn't mean nursing once or twice even if they are an older baby (mine still does that, and I'm fine with it) you can GENTLY do something about it other than just suffer. There IS hope.


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## amore74 (Nov 8, 2006)

I am so happy to hear that! I need to know there is hope!

My son is 4 1/2 months old and since he turned 3 months he has not been sleeping well. we co-sleep now so nursing every hour isn't as "painful" as it was but I still feel tired all day and sometimes I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel.

I try to keep a routine as much as I can but sometimes it's hard. He will only fall asleep while nursing so my DH feels like he can't participate in our bedtime routine or at night. How did you get your DC to fall asleep on her own?


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## Bookworm (Oct 6, 2004)

Hmm, well, we worked with her on it gradually when she was about 9 months old - patting, singing, after weeks of the routine so that she knew that sleep came next. It seems like your babe might be a little young for it.


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## jennybean0722 (Jun 19, 2006)

Hi Amore!

I am in the EXACT same situation as you. I think we are going to try to change our nightime schedule after Christmas is over with. In the meantime, we are keeping a journal of everything he does/we do during the day to capture patterns, both bad and good. Then we are going to make some changes. With him probably starting solids soon (he is huge now - 20lbs), maybe 5 months, we figure that this is going to throw a kink in our current schedule anyway, which is why we are going to try to get a more regimented schedule down.

And Bookworm, thanks for those thoughts. I'm all about AP, co-sleeping, etc. but like you, I can't be an effective mother if I am sleep deprived. I can't wait to be 100% for my baby. In the meantime, I can't wait until we get back in town after Christmas. It will challenging, but worth it in the end.

Jenny


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## Ex Libris (Jan 31, 2004)

Hi Bookworm,
Can I ask you a few questions about your routine? I've tried it before, but I wasn't as strict as you have been (on the weekends when dh was home the routine would be out the window!).

When does your routine start? Can you go through it in more detail so I can see what it looks like?

When are lights out and how long does it take your dd to fall asleep?

What time did your dd go to bed before you had the rountine, and how did she take to the earlier bed time?

Did you have to adjust her nap to accomodate her earlier bed time?

Thank you for posting your story! It's nice to read a solution that works!

Kelly


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## Bookworm (Oct 6, 2004)

Sure thing.









We all sit down for dinner about 5:15 or 5:30. Yes, it's early, but we get up and go to bed early, so all of our meals are a little early and it works for us - you could certainly sit with your child while they ate at this time, and the adults would have plenty of time to eat after they went to bed.
Head to bath at 6. My husband does the bath while I work on the dishes, since they're noisy and our DD will NOT sleep through any dishes noise. I also lay out her pajamas during this time. We don't have the bath timed exactly, I guess we have done it so much we just have a sense of when she's finished, but I'm guessing they're in there about twenty minutes. They call me when they are nearing the end of the bath and I go in with a towel, pick her up, show her herself in the mirror and say "BEAUTIFUL BABY!" Lol, yes, we are that routine - we do that every night!







I take her in the nursery and get her dressed, then we nurse in the rocking chair. Even if she drowses off, they still do the books afterward. (We tried putting her straight down once since she was so sleepy - yikes, never again!) My husband finishes up the dishes while we're dressing/nursing. Then he comes in and they read books. Again, not sure exactly how long - they have a number of books they do, I think four. Now that she is older, if she is really tired, she will push the books out of the way and he knows to hurry and finish so she can get in bed, lol. She is in bed at 6:30 - 6:40. Now, it takes her no time at all to get to sleep. We put her on her stomach (she is older) and she clutches her Waldorf doll in one hand, and her little green blanket in the other, turns her head right to left, left to right, like she is nuzzling her sheet, and then she's out like a light. This took probably a month, or maybe a little longer. At first, while she was learning to fall asleep on her own, she had lots of help from us. We patted (she insisted on neck and thigh rubbing at the same time - nothing else would do), sang, shshed, etc. Eventually she stopped needing or even wanting us to do that. Once she learned to fall asleep on her own (gently), she stopped needing the breast every single time she rolled over. For us, that was the crux of the matter. She still nursed a few times a night for a while - hey that was fine! Such an improvement over waking up every hour! She started sleeping longer and longer stretches until she eventually slept through the night most of the time, and started eating more in the morning. She used to take in the bulk of her calories overnight, and not be interested in nursing in the mornings.

We haven't had a lot of luck with a nap schedule, but I do try to make sure she gets as much sleep as she is willing. EVERYTHING comes second to sleep, except maybe a dentist appointment, lol. I will put off anything to make sure she gets her sleep. After trying to stick to a nap schedule many times with no success, I realized I just have to follow her cues. We've been through two nap transitions since this started, so that's been part of the problem. When we first started, I remember that she was ready to go down for nap exactly one hour and thirty minutes after waking up, like clockwork. The other ones were never that easy to figure out. I highly recommend a sleep journal. It really helps me see the patterns and what her "sweet spot" time for falling asleep is. Or, in the case of naps, that she just doesn't always have one, lol. I think in the daytime there are just too many variables contributing to how she feels about going down for a nap. At night, those are somewhat removed by our routine. In the day, it's just not possible to be quite so routine.

Good luck to you! It takes commitment, but we got used to it, and we used to be the most non-routine people in the world!









PS(We'd had her on an early bedtime for a while, so if your child is going to bed later, maybe try moving the bedtime up gradually? Not sure.)


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## Ex Libris (Jan 31, 2004)

Thanks for such a detailed reply, bookworm! (that's a great name, by the way--I'm quite a bookworm myself).

We've been battling sleep since ds was born. Unfortunately, he has learned to associate sleep with nursing/sucking (it's the only way I could get him to sleep as a baby). So, I'm dealing with 2 problems here: needing to nurse to sleep and the constant night-waking (b/c he needs to nurse back to sleep). I'm not sure how to approach this. From what you're saying, your dd's need to nurse back to sleep was changed by the new routine _and_ by teaching her to put herself to sleep at night. I'm not sure that a strict routine alone will work with ds--his sleep/suck association is so strong (he comfort sucks for about the last 3 hours of the morning until he gets up). But I'm sure it will help.

Ever since we've moved, bedtime has been a nightmare. He's so wound up by dinnertime (which is usually at 530, by the way), that he'll only sit for a few minutes and then he's running around the house. Once we manage to get the diaper on and brush his teeth (and it's a struggle), we try to get him to lie on the bed to read with dh, but he spends most of the time getting up and down to see what i'm doing or to put books back in his bedroom. I think we'll have to strap him to the bed!

Was your dd wild and crazy at bedtime before you started the routine? Do you think a strict routine will calm my ds down?

And about the nursing part of your routine: I notice that you nurse before getting into bed to read books. Was that a new part of your routine? Had you nursed her to sleep before that?

I appreciate you sharing your thoughts on this. Kelly


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## Bookworm (Oct 6, 2004)

Yes, you've hit the nail on the head. We had a two-part problem. While it works great for some babies to only nurse to sleep, for our daughter, that meant, ONLY nursing to sleep, even at the slightest stirring, which for her, is really often. So it was a combination of the routine and her learning to fall asleep without sucking, which, as I mentioned, I think was the crux of the matter.

In this book: The No-Cry Sleep Solution: Gentle Ways to Help Your Baby Sleep Through the Night by Elizabeth Pantley and William Sears, Pantley discusses the "sucking to sleep" association and what to do about it when it causes sleep problems. I got into such a bad mental state, that although I read that book twice, I couldn't think of what I was supposed to do. It was probably just me, but it wasn't a clear plan for me. But it would definitely be worth looking at the "sucking to sleep" section. For us, we just stuck with the routine, so our DD knew it was time for sleep, and then reversed the order of the reading and nursing, and used other means of comforting her, which she eventually stopped needing or wanting.

We haven't experienced the running around behavior at bedtime, but when I was going through all this, I read a ton of sleep books and talked to any mom I could find. From all of that, I'd guess what you're talking about is manic behavior from being over-tired. I've heard lots of moms talk about it and I've read about it, too. The thing about our DD waking up every hour to nurse... she wasn't getting all the rest she needed, either. I believe now that though I was trying to nurture her the best I knew how, I was not doing the best thing for her.

Just to address any controversy for anyone else reading my post: I am NOT talking about night-weaning a baby. That was not our goal, and not what we did, and not what I suggest anyone do at an early age. My baby still nursed at night when she was hungry, and still does sometimes, and that is great with me. The nighttime milk is higher in brain-building fats, and it was our special time, too. I'm talking about helping a baby learn to sleep who really has sleep problems and needs help because they can't figure this out on their own. Everyone needs a drink or a pee in the night sometimes! I would never expect my baby to be any different.

I also don't expect my baby or me to be able have the beautiful and happy relationship we're having on no sleep.


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## Bookworm (Oct 6, 2004)

This is a pretty good book:

Sleepless in America: Is Your Child Misbehaving...or Missing Sleep?
by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka

And Pantley also has a No Cry Sleep Solution for toddlers, but I have not read it.


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## Ex Libris (Jan 31, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bookworm* 
I believe now that though I was trying to nurture her the best I knew how, I was not doing the best thing for her.

This is exactly what I've come to believe now, too. I can't believe it's taken me 2 1/2 years to figure it out. I just assumed I was doing the best thing for him--nursing him as much as he wanted all night long so that he didn't cry--but I now realize that we've both been exhausted for a long time. Too exhausted to have the kind of relationship I know we could have. As you said, "Sleeping and playing happily with my daughter are too important to wait years for." ITA.

Kelly

P.S. I may have more questions for you if you don't mind.







I just need to go to bed for now. Thanks again for all of your help!


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## summerleaf (Sep 17, 2006)

I've been wanting to have a consistent bedtime routine and bed TIME with my daughter but with Daddy coming home anywhere from 5:30-midnight, it feels impossible. Even if I try to do everything myself and assume he won't be home, if he shows up in the middle or right before I start with the routine it just derails everything.

We also have the nursing to sleep and nursing throughout the night issue. My daughter is almost 19 months.


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## alliteration (Dec 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *summerleaf* 
I've been wanting to have a consistent bedtime routine and bed TIME with my daughter but with Daddy coming home anywhere from 5:30-midnight, it feels impossible. Even if I try to do everything myself and assume he won't be home, if he shows up in the middle or right before I start with the routine it just derails everything.

We also have the nursing to sleep and nursing throughout the night issue. My daughter is almost 19 months.

I have the opposite problem, my husband goes to work anywhere from 4:30 pm to 9pm. If he is home and I am trying to get my son down it's always harder. Then when he comes home he frequently wakes us up. Fine if it's just me, horrible if I've just nursed my son to sleep and he wakes up again.
I'd love a good routine like you described bookworm.
Could you have daddy do something quiet and not announce himself if it's a certain time in your bedtime routine summerleaf?


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## summerleaf (Sep 17, 2006)

alliteration: the house is too small, dd would know Daddy is home no matter what! Then she's like "Daddy!" and wants to see him. I try to coordinate a bit with my husband on the phone sometimes, warning him if she's likely to be near bedtime when he comes home, so he will be quiet when he comes in...just in case she's on her way to dreamland. Sometimes that works, but still...when Daddy is home he is part of the routine, and when Daddy is not home, he can't be part of the routine. That alone makes it impossible to be consistent from night to night.


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## Bookworm (Oct 6, 2004)

I guess it depends on how bad your sleep problems are, but we will change anything around DD's sleep routine so that it works. So, in that scenario, I would have my husband, if he came in, not speak or make a peep until he knew our daughter was asleep. We will make any sacrifice not to go back to sleepless nights, though - it was really bad in our house. In the other scenario, I would probably make the routine ONLY mama and baby, and even though baby will want daddy at first, eventually s/he'll get used to a bedtime routine of just mama, since daddy can't be there every night. That's our household, though. I'm sure some people don't have to be so strict, but we did. It just depends on how bad the sleep problems are, I guess.


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## jennybean0722 (Jun 19, 2006)

Okay, so I am like you Bookworm. And its only the beginning. My DS is 4.5 mo old, and I am already a walking zombie.

The sad thing is, is that he is an AWESOME baby. He rarely ever cries, always smiles, and is a ton of fun to be around and do activities with. But he does cry and wake up at night if he can't nurse, which is every 1.5-2 hours. Which I know isn't as bad as some people, but for us it is bad. Well, for me it is bad. My relationships with my DH and DS are suffering because of my lack of sleep. I just refuse to do this anymore.

Maybe co-sleeping is not for us???? It felt so natural right when he was born. But I just couldn't bear having him in a crib in the next room.... He's getting too big for the sidecar arrangement (20lbs), so I guess that is out?? For now we are trying the full bed next to our queen, and I'm sleeping in the full, DH with DS in the queen. The problem is that when DS stirs, DH doesn't notice it until later than I do. So I wake up anyway and have to crawl into the queen to try to calm DS down. By then he is awake, and its nipple again to get him to go to sleep. Then, I'm sleep deprived again, and the cycle continues.

I guess my question is...is he too young for me to start refusing a few night feedings? We already have a night routine...but we haven't tried the nurse the read book thing yet. And I don't want to refuse his nursings during the night....how can I possibly get them down from 6-8x a night to just 2 or 3x?

Jenny







:


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## xochimama (Oct 11, 2006)

:
I'm watching this one. Bookworm, my dd is 15 mo. now and we are also dealing w/ the "co-sleeping, nursing to sleep, nightwaking" stew. Lots of complex things going on here.

I love the routine idea, but like other pp's, my dh has an erratic schedule (grad student) and it is difficult, if not impossible, to plan even meal times.

For the PP, I personally think 4.5 months is too young to limit night nursings, but I DO think you can start to stretch out the time between the nursings so baby is not nibbling all night, but rather getting a good nurse.


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## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xochimama* 
:
For the PP, I personally think 4.5 months is too young to limit night nursings, but I DO think you can start to stretch out the time between the nursings so baby is not nibbling all night, but rather getting a good nurse.

Can you clarify this? how do you stretch it out?


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## xochimama (Oct 11, 2006)

Well, what worked for us was to get out of bed to nurse. We went to sit in the same chair in the LR. I did not have any lights on; just a nightlight. I tried to avoid too much direct stimulation (talking, eye-contact), but I would nurse her really well until she drifted off to sleep. Then we went back to bed together.

It may sound counter-intuitive to get up when you are exhausted, but it worked for me. There came a point when I really looked forward to our nighttime nursing sessions!! The house was dark and still, the light was lovely, and baby was totally content. After nursing, we would go back to bed and sleep really well until the next session (which for us, was down to once per night by the time she was four months).

[Mind you, since then, things have changed-we are back up to multiple nighttime nursings, primarily b/c she started pt daycare at 12 mos. and separation anxiety hit, plus at daycare there is no mama boob and she never did take bottles--we are still trying to figure out the new routine]


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## Momma Aimee (Jul 8, 2003)

thank god there is hope --

13 months and still waking about every hour.

I have gotten him to the point he will slepe 2 hours, most times, but some times it is still 45 minutes.

we went a long looong time of ever 45 minutes all night -- with at least one waking of over an hour.

DS does not nurse to sleep -- GER, so i never let him, nursed, burped, and went to sleep with paci from week 2 -- and the night wakings are not to play after nurseing it is liek he wants to sleep but can't toss -- trun -- rub face -- toss -- trun -- rub eyes and whine......

I read http://www.drjaygordon.com/development/ap/sleep.asp and also his book (Dr Jay Gordon). he is great. his point is that a co-selpt child can learn to go longer without nurseing after 1 yo .... he says up to 7 hours........

wellllllll I am working for 3 hours (which would be 3 wakings -- bed at 7, wake at 10, 1, 4 and up for teh day at 7) and maybe someday 4 hours (got to bed at 7 wake at 11, 4 and up for teh day at 7)

...........and it is tough; I do not see how you could go from waking whenever to 7 hours..........

i like him cuz he reassure you about the cuddling and the co-sleepig and the parenting to sleep -- which NCSS (which i also have) does NOT -- it makes you feel like you have screwed up your child for life by holding a newborn whiel he or she naps.

I am feeling bad enough that we are currently nurseing evey two hours, i can't get ito three hours consitantly without him being frantic -- the first couple of chucnks of the night we go 3 -- he even slet 3 hours last night despite coughing -- but teh long ther night goes on the more frantic he gets about it, adn the harder he is to settle........

after christmas i need to better bedtime routine too. but DH doesn't get home till 6 and bedtime is 7 (DS own time, he gets up by 7 every day, so before 7 pm he is tired, fussy and rubbing his eyes, if i keep him up later he gets totally out of sorts -- and sorts are very hard tro find in Iowa). sooooooo I hate to steal the one hour they get together with bedtime.

Bookworm -- question -- is your DD that set about things all day, in every setting (does breakfast have to be "just so" and so on) or is it JUST a sleep thing that has to be so excate and perdictable each night?

AImee


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## jennybean0722 (Jun 19, 2006)

My problem is that I would love to get up to nurse somewhere else, but my DS mainly likes to sleep nursing laying down. My let down is still too much for him right now....which was the start of all of this to begin with. B/c of the limited nursing positions, he now only nurses 'maybe' twice a day. I'm lucky if it is three times!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He has his days and nights mixed up when it comes to nursing....I might as well be working again.
J


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## Becken (May 28, 2006)

:

So far I have no night issues, but I just have this premonition that I'll need this info for later!


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## Bookworm (Oct 6, 2004)

Aimee, no, we are not routine about our days - maybe she would be a good napper if we were. I have different things I need to do every day, so there's no way to keep it that routine. I just try to help her get as much sleep as she's willing to during the day, and try not to worry about it too much, though that's tough.

I don't know what to tell you about your situation - that is tough. If he is using the paci to get to sleep possibly he does have the "sucking to sleep" association they talk about in the No Cry Sleep Solution. Maybe look into helping him learn to get to sleep without that crutch? That book also made me feel bad about having held my daughter while she was sleeping as a tiny infant, but you know, it shouldn't have. Of course we did! Who doesn't???? Most babies don't develop sleep problems from that. Take ideas from the sleep books, but don't beat yourself up! I've seen people with terrible habits and great sleepers, and the opposite. Some babies just need help figuring it all out - it doesn't mean we did something to make them that way. They'll be good at other things.


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## Ex Libris (Jan 31, 2004)

Hi Bookworm--I was hoping you'd like to share your advice on a few more things, if you don't mind.









I've been working on a strict routine like yours, and it's already helping. He fell asleep last night at 715 instead of his usual 8 o'clock! Woo Hoo! And the time before bed has been calmer overall (though we've got a long way to go). Thanks for the suggestions!

Anyway, I'm also going to start night weaning him using the Jay Gordon method (where you progressively allow dc less and less night nursing over the course of 10 days or so). I originally planned to work on the routine for awhile and then start the night weaning after the new year. I thought I would make a sleep book with pictures of him sleeping without sucking, a picture of the sun coming up, etc., so that he can begin to visualize what's going to happen and talk about it with me.

I've already been talking to him about this and trying to get him to let go at night after he's "had a little drink," but I think it's all been stressing him out so he's nursing _even more_ now than he was. And my patience is wearing thin, to say the least: we've both been extra tired and grumpy and not having good days at all.

Soooo, I was wondering what you think. Should I just begin the night weaning right away and look at the sleep book along the way? or should I stop trying to get him to let go at night and just let him suck so I can transition him into night weaning more slowly? Either way, I'm going to keep up the bedtime routine you recommended.

Also, a simpler question: do you ever go out to dinner, as long as you're back in time to start the bath/bed routine?

Thanks! Kelly


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## Bookworm (Oct 6, 2004)

Kelly, I'm pming you about the other stuff, but regarding the going out to dinner, we didn't go out for months, until our DD was really firmly entrenched in the routine. Now we can go out, but we have to go to the early bird special.







The first few times we did it, we still brought her home and put her in her high chair and fed her a little before the bath so it was more like the old routine. Now we don't need to do that anymore.


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## Julianito (Mar 14, 2006)

I'm in the same boat. My 19 month loves the num-nums all night long. At times, I feel it is unfair because when he has a cold he can't nurse well, and hence sleep smuch less just when he really need. But if my DH, who is not a consistent part of our routine tries to rock, pat him, walk with him or even give him a bottle he cries.

So our questions to you bookworm: Was there crying involved? How did you comfort her? Did you go back to b-feeding when she was sick or upset?


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## Bookworm (Oct 6, 2004)

I didn't stop nursing her at night, I just stopped nursing her to sleep. She has continued to nurse at night as needed. (Of course she has been between 9 months and 14 months when this has been happening, younger than your toddler.) When she's well-rested, not teething, and well, she often sleeps through the night for many nights running. Right now she has a cold and is working on some teeth, and is nursing twice a night, which is fine with me. Every hour when she wasn't even hungry, just didn't know how to fall back to sleep, was not so fine. What we did was basically reverse the order of reading and nursing in our routine, so she was no longer falling asleep at the breast. Yes, she cried. We stood next to her and patted her and sang to her if she was sleepy and lying down. If she got really upset we picked her up and rocked her. Once she got used to the new bedtime order, just a few days, she figured out how to fall asleep without sucking, and that's when she started sleeping longer stretches.

For us the solution was a combination of finding the right bedtime, being really strict about the bedtime routine, and breaking the sucking to sleep association. We didn't have to night-wean to accomplish this. (Not that there's anything wrong with nightweaning an older toddler - I haven't crossed that bridge yet.







)


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## PaxMamma (Jul 22, 2005)

my ds (8 mos.) has never nursed to sleep, of his choice, not mine. many, many times, i wished he wd. anyhow, we have no problem getting him to sleep. but then he wakes every 1-2 hours and just screams until he can nurse. we've even started me sleeping in another room and him w/dh. he will go longer, 2-3 hours this way, but still constantly nurses. he eats a ton all day, so i don't think he's hungry. bookworm, do you have a suggestion for this?


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## Maggi315 (Aug 31, 2003)

I'm subbing because we are trying to get my 16mos son to sleep more than 1-2 hours per night. He is constantly "picking" at me, not really nursing and screams and fusses if he doesn't immediately get a breast. And god help me if I have to get up to go to the bathroom or something! You would think someone was killing him!

I don't mind nursing once or twice, but c'mon now, he's old enough to sleep! I have to take a nap everyday or I am a total b*tch! It's like I don't get any sleep that's productive at all!

Taking notes...


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## summerleaf (Sep 17, 2006)

There's a belief (I think from No Cry Sleep SOlution) that says that the reason a baby/child wakes at night to nurse is because they nursed to sleep. I our case, that is not really true...my daughter still wakes at night wanting to nurse even if Daddy walked her to sleep and lay her down and she continued to sleep.

Maggi315: What has occasionally worked for us (my daughter is 19 months) is when she wakes and asks for "boo-wa" (her word for nursing), I say "Later" and "go Back to Sleep"...she cries a little then falls back to sleep. My daughter typically starts a new nursing session every 1- 3 hours throughout the night. When she's sucked both boobs over the course of an hour and then wakes crying when I move an inch to back away from her, that's when I tend to say "Later", so I can get some Sleeping On My Back time!


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## Ex Libris (Jan 31, 2004)

Take a look at these threads for other thoughts/ideas on this subject:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=573935

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=573934


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## Momma Aimee (Jul 8, 2003)

we are proof adgienst the Nusre to sleep idea of NCSS also -- Theo has NEVER nursed to sleep in his life (well maybe int he first 2 or 3 days, but not since week 1) due to GER,

We alwasy rock or walk or rub abcks to sleep -- and he still waks 7 or 8 times a night, maybe only 6........


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## Bookworm (Oct 6, 2004)

The "sleep books" I read when we were going through all of this would consider walking or rocking to sleep to be a sleep crutch, the same as nursing to sleep, in that the baby has not learned how to fall back to sleep without assistance every time they stir in the night. I don't know if this is right or not, since I can only speak to the problem we had, which was nursing to sleep. For us, this meant we were able to help our daughter sleep longer without having to nightwean, since it wasn't just about nursing, but about needing help to know how to fall asleep.


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## Bookworm (Oct 6, 2004)

Just thought I'd bump this up since I know I used to come to this forum in desperation and look through the first few pages for solutions since there's no good way to search the words "sleep" and "problems".


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