# Reconciling beliefs about low-interv. pg w/ a loss



## SweetTeach (Oct 5, 2003)

Jackie's comment (about her c/s incision and possibilities for a future VBAC) in Wilkers' thread struck a chord with me. I have always had a perspective on pg that low-intervention/natural approaches are best unless there is warranted reason to do otherwise. I had a wonderfully low intervention/natural oriented pg and labor (for the most part) but my son died (official cause unknown) at 37 weeks. I developed sudden onset mild pre-e, my son was a low weight for his gest. age and his cord was wrapped around his neck.
In reality I know that more intervention, as in sonograms, wouldn't necessarily have changed the outcome b/e there is no cure for any of the things I had, except to deliver the baby and we don't know that he would have lived being born early.
So as I think about another pg, I am faced with a decision now- do I go the low-intervention route again, do I allow myself to be monitored aggressively because of my "poor obstetrical history", or do I try to find some combo of the two- which is pretty hard to do in this country, or at least this part of the country.

I'm curious to hear about other people's experiences in this area:
*How do you reconcile your beliefs about pg/labor/delivery, with the reality of the fact that your child died?
*Do you feel that you will be more comfortable handing over the "control" to a traditional practitioner, or do you want to move even further away from the norm?
*If you had a subsequent pg after a loss, why did you choose the kind of care that you did? Would you do it again?
Thanks in advance for any responses.


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## shannon0218 (Oct 10, 2003)

I can only speak for myself. After the first m/c I panicked and originally wanted to hand over all care and decisions to my doctor. Then after a chemical pregnancy I was referred to an OB, while she is fairly hands off she is all about giving us the information we need to make educated choices. With this past m/c I was so very impressed with her care. She explained our options in detail telling me that no one option was right for everybody, was completely honest about what our choices could entail (as in she did not tell me that a natural m/c would be just like a heavy period as my regular doc had and she did not tell me that a d&c would give us a bunch of answers it would not give us) When I decided to go with the d&c she told me that if I changed my mind to in no way feel guilty about cancelling it even if we were on our way in to the OR. She gave me her home phone # and told me to call anytime if I needed to talk about it or had any questions or if the m/c started on it's own before the d&c was booked and I felt I needed to go to the hospital.
After that she sent us to a very HANDS ON fertility clinic where they planned to run every test in the book but we were essentially just a uterus with a number. When I couldnt' get the answers from them I talked to her again, she admitted the things she did not know and offered to find out the answers. She booked me an appt for 5days later to come in and talk about whatever she had found out. When I arrived, she had pages and pages of research for me with important areas highlighted and told me she did feel comfortable taking over my care in my next pregnancy so long as I knew there were no guarentees (not that the arrogant specialists at the fertility clinic offered any guarentees either)
So here we are in the 2ww, at a positive preg test we will begin heparin injections and progesterone suppositories, I am already taking baby aspirin daily.
Essentially because of how extremely straight forward and honest and open she has been we will let her monitor us in whatever way she suggests (although history with her states that we will be given alot of choices) I do however think that had we not found such an amazing OB that we trust so well, we'd have stepped away from medical intervention.
I am impressed that this doc actually admits that we don't know all the effects of U/S but did say that she feels if I am going to constantly stress about the "existence" of my baby that short U/S's are better than the level of stress I put myself through. She said she would provide me with all the beta requests I want and she alway emails me the results as soon as she gets them. She accepts that I'm going to worry and has never once told me I need to just relax.
Did I make sense at all there???
Thanks for the opportunity to get out my feelings about this.


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## SamuraiEarthMama (Dec 3, 2002)

sweetteach, this is something i've been struggling with the entire pregnancy. my first three were blessedly uncomplicated homebirths, but then i had two m/cs. i've also done a lot of doula work for moms who have had either losses (two SIDS, one stillbirth, a twin-twin transfusion where both babies died) or difficult outcomes (the latest, just last week: a c/sec at 27 weeks for pre-e... he's doing OK now but he's not out of the woods yet).

this is the first pregnancy where i'm seriously questioning my decision to go low-tech all the way. part of me wants to drag my belly into an U/S tech's office and get pictures of everything, get some reassurance that it's all OK.

but another part says, "don't do it... there are no guarantees. even if the U/S comes out OK, there's a million other things that could go wrong. have faith, and be patient, and things will be all right."

this is dh's first baby. in some ways, i feel like i'm gambling his peace of mind for my beliefs. he's not arguing or pressuring me for testing, but i know if it was his decision alone, he'd be doing it all. he's riding on my faith, and sometimes i wonder if it's enough for both of us...

i'm very interested in hearing what other mamas have to say about this topic. being on the other side of loss now really has painted a new and more complicated picture of pregnancy, and sometimes i wonder if i can ever have a truly objective view again.

thanks for bringing this up.

katje


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## Mom2baldie (Oct 29, 2002)

Sweet Teach,

Well Ive never had a stillborn baby, only a miscarriage at 12.5 weeks, so I dont know if I am who you want to hear from or not, but I wanted to let you know that my views on pregnancy and birth are not really any different than they were before.

I am pregnant right now and due in Sept. I am planning a homebirth again and am having a another very low-tech pregnancy. I did, however, have a sono at 10 weeks because I had been spotting/bleeding for several weeks (it ended up continueing for over a month!) and after my miscarriage last Sept. I couldnt handle waiting to see if it was going to happen again.

I didnt have a sono with the last pregnancy until I had been bleeding for awhile either, and even if I wouldve had one sooner, the outcome wouldve been the same. I dont really see the need to do things differently this time because I feel very strongly that my choices are the best ones for me.

I absolutely would not feel comfortable handing over control to any care giver because that is just not personality type - I am a complete control freak! I have a really wonderful midwife and she has provided a lot of emotional reassurance, which is what I really needed during the 1st tri. of this pregnancy. Since I am 19.5 weeks now, I feel very confident that everything will be fine and so does she.

I do have to admit though, that the miscarriage and hemmorhage has shaken my confidence a bit about after my upcoming birth. I do wonder if I will hemmorhage afterwards, but again, my midwife has assured me that it isnt likely to happen and even if it does, we will be able to handle it just fine.


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## Ms. Mom (Nov 18, 2001)

ST, you always have such good questions. So many can learn by these







thank you.

Quote:

I'm curious to hear about other people's experiences in this area:
*How do you reconcile your beliefs about pg/labor/delivery, with the reality of the fact that your child died?
This is hard. I got pregnant very soon after I lost Amanda. I remember being terrified and not trusting my body.

Quote:

*Do you feel that you will be more comfortable handing over the "control" to a traditional practitioner, or do you want to move even further away from the norm?
I've seen both cases with the women here - so I think it's a very individual thing. I wanted more personal control, but I also wanted my doctor to be an active part.

Quote:

*If you had a subsequent pg after a loss, why did you choose the kind of care that you did? Would you do it again?
I do have other health issues, so I feel it was necessary for me to go the rout I did. Though like you, I could not change the cord around my babies neck or the placenta from abrupting. It's likely an ultrasound would not have seen either and if it had, what could have been done? very little.

Would I do it again like I did? Yes and no. With ds, I feel it was necessary to have the meidical interventions I did. With dd I knew all along things were not as high risk as the doctors would have liked me to beleive. I wish I had not allowed the induction and feel I could have had her at home with no complications.

I guess what's important is to follow you're instincts. You'll question yourself many times, but you'll have to follow what feels right at the time.


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## XM (Apr 16, 2002)

I had a highly reccomended perinatalogist for Xiola's pregnancy (stillbirth at 41 1/2 weeks, she died while I was pushing) and a renegade midwife for Ezra's homebirth. After we lost dd, I was dead-set on a c/s at 37 weeks... once Mike comes home to hold clingy ds I will come back to discuss how I went from planning a c/s to planning a homebirth. It was quite the journey...


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## OceanMomma (Nov 28, 2001)

To cut a long story short. I had one ectopic pg, followed by a loss in utero at about 16 1/2 weeks both within 5 months of each other. They were IVF pg to boot. I did not have a scan after the initial 6.5 week check to see if it was ectopic with my last babe I lost as I had chosen not to. Anyways, the shock of having a sudden 2tri loss like that for no apparent reason pretty much shook my faith in most things at the time.

To be honest I think any pg after a loss is a leap of faith, but it is also something you can't really opt out of once you are pg so you do really have to go with it. With dd#2 I was a nervous wreck. My mw brushed me off all the time & well I was turning into the m-i-l ( & I have a m-i-l from hell ). I wanted to have a home birth. I am pathologically scared of hospitals. I associate them with dead babies. So I was pretty much stuck. Thankfully I had this awesome accupuncturist who could tell from my pulses if the baby was OK. Or so she told me. I went for accupuncture every week. I made a deal with myself to relax on the days I had been & she'd told me the baby was OK. I ended up having dd at home unassisted by accident as my mw had decided I needed a hospital birth ( easier for her







)

With dd#3, she was like my bonus baby. I had a frozen embryo left. I was not expecting her to work. Statistics were that she wouldn't as my last 3 in a row had - even tho' I only had one live baby to show for it. I had her replaced & there she was. I was profoundly shocked. The whole thing was quite surreal & I was totally petrified again. We moved down country when I was about 14 weeks. I had a proper home birth mw who lived up the road from me & used to come & see me on her way out or her way home. So I never had to go to any medical places. She used an fetascope instead of a doppler. She was pretty minimal on testing. Kind of forced me to be more laid back. I would be there freaking out & I'd still be alive & the baby would still be moving & growing the next day. Mind you, she is 10 months old now & I still expect her to vanish one day.


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## Katana (Nov 16, 2002)

I had two early losses for my first two pregnancies, so with ds, in the beginning, I was a nervous wreck. I did everything by the book. Had all the tests done, everything monitored, I was the perfect mainstream pregnant woman.

But I was such a wreck. Crying all the time, still afraid. A week after I had my one and only ultrasound with him, I started spotting, and it was hugely traumatic. I said, enough listening with my brain, I'm going to listen to my heart. So I went and found a midwife who was so easy going, and willing to do things however I needed. Which was basically, just answer the questions I had and not do any more standard tests. I got such peace when I started seeing her. The last 3 months of his pregnancy were so much less nerve wracking.

For dd, I went to her again, and was completely at peace, the whole time. My water broke about a month early, and I ended up having her in the hospital. All I heard for months after from my family was that if I had been with 'real' doctors, I would have gone to term. In retrospect, what I would do if I could do it all over again is do what I wanted to do and have her in the car, or even at home, as she was fine.

I did have a loss last fall. I am a little lost and afraid again about never being able to have any more, like I'll just keep having losses. But I know if I ever do make it past that 6-8 week window again, I will start out always with non interventions and listening to my body and my heart. And just let the future happen as it will.

Doctors and nurses and mainstream ways have never been kind or good to me, so I think even if I am a little skittish, I'll try a low/no intervention midwife kind of birth way before I hit the door of the obgyn again.


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## saintmom (Aug 19, 2003)

Hey oceanmamma I still keep thinking Joy's gonna dissapear too! I had read spiritual midwifery at 18 and knew thats how i was gonna have my babies.Had my first at home at 19.2nd at 23.Then my dd in hospital at 28,(could'nt find a hb midwife)She was 9.15 and I was told the next one would be a c/s cause it would probably be bigger!So the next ds was 9 and we almost had him in the parking lot!then 2 more ds 7.11 and 6.15.all were low tech non interventive births.Then i started to ms and I had 5 before Joy came.And this is where it really gets crazy, i just couldn't figure what my body was doing.Being pregnant wasn't fun any more or easy.The cnm i had seen with the m/s put enormus pressure on me to have all the tests done.So I didn't go back to that practice.My heart told me whatever the outcome, fear and invasive procedures weren't going to get me where I needed to be to give birth.I found a lay mw and had a pretty nice hb.It wasn't easy,it was really a long labor yet we have a beautiful dd to show for it.Btw the cnm came out for dinner a while back.She was somewhat surprised there weren't any genetic complications given my age and history.When she saw the birth pictures she said the babies in the hospital were never that awake and aware,guess she'd never seen any of ours!


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## SweetTeach (Oct 5, 2003)

Thank you for your responses everyone. This is exactly what I wanted to hear- people's experiences. I know there is no one right answer for everyone but it's hearing the range of experiences that helps me to think about where I might fall. I am going to tell you what my choices look like for right now, which are kind of similar to Shannon's but I have to go work on this paper for the next couple of hours.








I am interested in everyone's experiences- no matter how late or early the loss.

Disappearing baby worries...that's very deep. I can completely imagine it, tho.


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## ggma (Apr 20, 2004)

I lost twin boys at 22 weeks. With this pregnancy, I asked for recommendations from friends and was able to create a relationship with a CNM who used a birthing center near my home. I did alot of reading and was interested in homebirth but her ins. didn't cover it and the center was really nice so I stayed with her. Low intervention. No sono. No tests. I didn't know I was carrying twins the night that I birthed each beautiful boy. With my second pregnancy, I stayed with my CNM even though the center closed and she works in a hospital setting now. She helped me birth my boys before I had taken any classes etc. and I felt very comfortable and honored with her. I chose to have a sono. early for mind and heart's sake. All was well and there was just one babe a growing... I birthed him at the hospital with my CNM and my DH holding for as little intervention as possible.
I think that each of us needs to listen to our worries and fears and do what we can to move through them. For me, this meant making different decisions in order to free up energy to take care of self. Working with my CNM was a very important piece of healing for me - she knew what I had experienced and she listened to me. Grace to you and your angel...


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## hmpc2 (Jul 1, 2003)

SweetTeach~ I am exactly with you in my confusion as to what type of pregnancy I want next. I go between the 2 extremes -UC & high intervention (weekly sonos if I could). I don't think I'll really know until I am in that place. I could go into detail my thoughts on each side but that would be 2-3 pages long. Basically it comes down to do I completely trust the whole birthing process and my belief in a higher power, or do I need to have someone else confirm with tests, etc...that is why I really do not know. We'll see. Good luck in your decision journey.


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## iris0110 (Aug 26, 2003)

SweetTeach: I am right there with you. And knowing that we will probably get the go ahead to start TTCing at the next appointment makes me excited and nervous at the same time. I have tried to lay out a plan for myself, but I just don't know what will happen when the time comes. I do know that I will not be having all of the bloodwork again. I know that I am still immune to rubella, and even if I wasn't there would be nothing I could do about it. I also know my blood type and I don't want tested for STD's as I find it terribly insulting. I will allow a CBC, and I may even demand more than one. I still have that feeling that maybe if I would have reacted sooner we could have saved Arawyn, so I will admit that if I even begin to feel a little sick I will probably be at the hospital demanding that they check me for an infection. I have been wrestling with the idea of getting one of those bebe sounds monitors. I know that there isn't much I can do if I can't find a heartbeat, but I think it will help keep me calm to just be able to hear it. I will also be refusing the pap smear that they always want to do to pregnant women, as it can lead to infection. I may also refuse group B strep test, but I don't know. My midwife said that we can do as much or as little as I want, so I feel like she will definately support me in the decisions I make. She knows I am normaly a very low tech girl. However I am still trying to come to some sort of decision on what to do about the other midwife in the practice. I know I could not handle her being at my delivery, she is just to horrible.









I guess how you react to a subsequent pregnancy depends alot on the person, and on the particulars of your previous loss. I had an infection, and so I will go out of my way to gaurd against another infection kwim? I will let you know better how I handle it after I get the go ahead, and a positive pregnancy test. My biggest fear right now is that I will start demanding an induction at 36 weeks just to have the baby out and in my arms, but we'll see.


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## taradt (Jun 10, 2003)

it is a hard decission.
we have been offered as high tech or as hands off as we want, which helps somewhat.
after loosing Keena i swore i wouldn't want an early ultrasound. now here we are at 6 weeks and i am changing my mind, thinking one would bring me peace. but the flip side is how long will it bring me peace for, the worries will start right back up again.

i *think* we are going to have the early ultrasound (i have no symptoms this pregnancy) and then the 1/2 way one and i will probably agree to the dopler until a stethescope can be used. most of this for my own piece of mind.
i am meditating MUCH more and getting in touch with the baby and my body again

i believe you will know the right path to follow once it is there and you can trust what your body is telling you

take care

tara


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## HaveWool~Will Felt (Apr 26, 2004)

Wow...
What a tough few questions to not only ask others but to ask yourself also.
My first pregnancy 1996 is OB/GYN all the way, concieved that baby on Clomid. Second pregnancy 1998-1999 was low tech with midwife, gave birth at 39 weeks in free standing birth center, Third pregnancy 2000-2001, low tech with midwife, gave birth at 39 weeks at free standing birth center, fourth pregnancy 2003-2004, no tech at all, homebirth planned, born at 37 weeks by emergency cesarean with a doctor I had never seen before in my life and she died 6 hours later.
So...how will I do pregnancy and birth again? Good question. I would love to say I would do nothing different. However my husband doesn't agree. So I am sure it will be interesting when it comes down to it.
I believe that we have little to no control over what may or may not happen. The Spirits already have it planned out and I have nothing to do with that. I know not all agree with that point of view...
I truly can't tell you SweetTeach. I want to say that you will know...you truly will know in your heart, mind, soul....your spirit will know, so will the spirit of the new baby. Trust...and you will find the answer.
(((((((((((((SweetTeach)))))))))))))))
This is much harder than I thought it would be...









~Jackie


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## ggma (Apr 20, 2004)

I just wanted to put out a suggestion - The book Birthing From Within by Pam England has great questions and ideas for moving through fears etc. of pregnancy. I used it with my first pregnancy (loss at 22 wks) and then again with the second (Raidan!). There was so MUCH going on inside of me emotionally and mentally with the second that I couldn't always center in on it. I used the book to help me focus in on what I needed to work with. I'm not big on the art stuff -so I journaled more than drew - although the art I was inspired to create was pretty heartdeep.

Hmm... A friend of mine said to me that I birthed my two boys directly to spirit. This has resonated with me and I know that I held them inside of me with love and joy and that we knew each other deeply. We shared space and a body and our spirits were melded. When I was moving into pushing, I had to take a moment to let them go. I talked to them and told them all was okay and tried to move through the birth with as much grace as I could. There was a lot of learning for me that night - and in the days of grieving that followed. I don't think any medical procedures could have prevented this loss. I think that I offered those two spirits a warm full home for as long as they needed to be here and that we supported each other through the challenge of letting go with grace... and I am honored to still feel the love for them inside.

I hope this is okay to post. As Jackie said - we all have our points of view - I am hoping that this may help someone else... peace and ease to all, gg.


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## Serenity Now (Mar 29, 2004)

I'll start by saying that I haven't read the other threads. I just don't have the energy today.

I think I've run the gamat, really. At first I stupidly believed in my body, and that things would be normal and healthy. Boy that was a big mistake, the whole "I'm young and healthy and do everything right, so I'll have no problem having a baby." I'm an idiot. Then I went running to the OB in desperation. I wanted him to fix me, give me a baby. He did, I had a really hard pregnancy, and a pre-term baby, but a living child none the less. Then the next time I got pg I ran back to the OB. I had every test, took all me meds, did everything perfectly and faithfully. I lost that baby. I did it all again, I lost that baby. This last time I decided that it doesn't make a difference what I do, I can't make the baby survive past the first trimester. If it does, I'll go to the OB again and do all that I'm supposed to but in the meantime I'll take my meds and wait and see. I guess I started to have some faith that my body could have a baby, and then last week I lost that one.

I'm lost, I'm angry, and worst of all I'm totally apathetic about life, family, and having children. It makes no difference what you do, it almost seems like those of us who desperetely want children and try hard have a harder time having a baby than those who do nothing. They sail effortlessly through pregnancy, and it makes me damn angry. All I can do is hold my daughter, cry and ask why.

I guess the bottom line is, do what makes you feel most comfortable, psychologically, because it doesn't make a damn bit of difference either way.


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## KateSt. (Nov 25, 2003)

Anne -- so many of your words echo many of my thoughts and emotions. I can feel your anger and frustration.

SweetTeach -- thanks for starting this thread ,as it's something I've been struggling with.

I've had 2 m/c's in 6 months (the first at 12 weeks, the second at 5 weeks). Even though I was further along in my first pregnancy and the m/c was devastating, the second was has been even harder to bear psychologically and spiritually.

After my first m/c I did everything "right" from vitamins to eating well to yoga and meditation. I had positive affirmations up the wahzoo.

When I got pregnant the second time I entered with no fear -- only joy, bliss, and total utter confidence that I WOULD have this baby. I was having beautiful birthing dreams every night, I was talking to my baby and sending it love. I even had a November Angel Pin my sil gave me over Christmas after she dreamed I'd have a November baby (this second m/c would have been a Nov baby.) There was NO WAY I would lose this baby. I was so confident in my body, my faith, and my abilities that I was even planning on a UC (unassisted childbirth). It seemed to be that my first pregnancy and m/c prepared me for this journey that I was on now. I could see the lessons and beauty in it. Every day I was pregnant felt like I was falling in love...

So to lose my November baby in the same month my first baby "would have been born" was just too cruel to comprehend. It wasn't SUPPOSED to happen this way!
I was more angry and lost than I'd ever been before. And I also felt so stupid. Stupid to be so confident. Stupid to think I had control over everything. Stupid to think positive affirmations and faith would will my baby to stay....

It's been a month now. I'm not angry anymore, but I do feel hardened. I feel like there are no guarantees -- that you can do everything "right" but things can still go horribly wrong. I certainly don't have the confidence or faith to have an unassisted childbirth in the future. Losing this confidence and trust in myself has been just has difficult as losing my baby again.

I'm not ready to pregnant again. I don't know how to enter into it without fear. I don't know what I could do differently because I felt I did everything "right" before.

I don't think I can hand over control to someone else, though. I still don't think I'd want testing or monitoring or invasive procedures -- but I really don't think I'll know until I'm in that situation again.

The first time I was pregnant, I dropped my ob/gyn for a midwife that would do homebirths. The second time, I even dropped my midwife thinking that was too much intervention and figured I'd trust my intuition and go it alone. Neither choice has worked out in my favor.

I just don't know. And the aimless wandering in my mind is definitley something new for me (from someone who used to think she had all the answers.)

Anyway, that's my story. All I've learned is that the more I think I know, the more I don't know a thing...I guess that's a freedom of sorts.

gg-- thanks for sharing your beautiful story. Birthing your boys directly to spirit...that's pretty powerful.

Thanks for all you women for sharing your stories. I have to say I think this is one of the most important threads I've participated in...


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## SweetTeach (Oct 5, 2003)

Hmm, I want to thank everyone again for taking the time to share your thoughts and experiences with all of us here.

I don't know where to begin...
Kate, I wanted to ask you if you think you might have handled the 2nd m/c a little "better" (if that's possible) had you _not_ been or felt so connected to the baby/pregnancy. There's a part of me that feels like the next time I'm pg I will walk around in denial of it until I actually have a baby live. I don't know if I want anyone to say a word about it to me. I don't know if that would make another loss easier to bear...

Quote:

It makes no difference what you do, it almost seems like those of us who desperetely want children and try hard have a harder time having a baby than those who do nothing. They sail effortlessly through pregnancy, and it makes me damn angry.
I am so feeling you on this! I have worked with and loved other people's children for 8 years and when I finally am ready to nurture my own, I prepared in advance, prayed for my child to come to me and loved him hard every single day he was inside of me and I, of all people, had to let him go. talk about crappy odds...

ggmama- Birthing from within really helped me with my first pg. I was very skittish about needing any kind of intervention at all, and it helped me to calm down and realize that interventions can be a good thing, when used in the right ways. I did think the birth art was a little out there, but shoot, I'll probably be drawing away come next pg. lol.

Well, my situation as it stands now (to make a long story short) is that I have a wonderful partnership of homebirth m/w's and an incredible ob/gyn who are willing to work with me for another pg (not together- it's gotta be either/or). Talk about opposite ends of the spectrum. But not quite.
The h/b m/w's are wonderful- I really like them and my friend just had a h/b with them and was raving about them- they are a very special team of women. Based on my history they said that I would have choices in what I did/did not want to happen, but that they would want to do more fetal monitoring- as in more frequent appts/hb checks- basically keep a closer eye on me than someone who hadn't had a previous s/b. They clearly understood the need for extreme emotional support I would have and already began to offer that to me in my conversations with them. They also have knowledge of alternative medicines, herbs, etc. that they also began to recommend to me in terms of preconception preparation.

The ob is this incredible woman who took over my care at my son's birth- she is part owner of the free-standing birth center I was going to deliver at with ds. She is kind, caring, gentle and concerned about me and my family. She called us frequently when we first lost ds, on my birthday and Christmas, which came shortly after Nazir was born. She calls me back if I call her, and takes her time with me when I see her.
She would take a cautious approach with another pg- she said she'd want an early sono, extensive blood testing and sonos every 6-8 weeks. She also suggested that she would want to induce me around 37 weeks because we don't know why ds died and she said that there is a higher risk for a subsequent s/b after one, so she wouldn't want to take any chances. She is very supportive of natural childbirth and said she would try her best to let it be natural. Inductions scare the bejeezus outta me cuz I've read enough to know that they very often end up as c/s's because of complications associated with not letting a baby come when it's ready to.

My family supports me (in theory) to make either choice, but my mom and ds in particular LOVE the ob and want me to stick with her. I worry about delivering in the same hosp at ds and I don't know if I will have time to even get to the hosp if labor starts on it's own because my ds's labor lasted a whopping total of 1 hr 20 minutes/3 pushes! It was wham bam thank you maam, for sure.

I don't know, I do agree that pg is much more complicated when you've experienced a loss...I long for the naive idealistic notions I used to have.

I don't know if this was the short story or what


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## KateSt. (Nov 25, 2003)

SweetTeach -- the decision will probably become more clear once you become pregnant. I sincerely believe our babies guide us in the best decision (well...I used to believe that anyway).
I'm happy that it seems you have great support no matter which way you go. I also think it's great that your family supports you -- even support "in theory" is a lot better than what some families offer. I can probably say for sure that neither my family nor my dh's family would be supportive of a homebirth now. But oh well...it's not up to them.

Quote: "I wanted to ask you if you think you might have handled the 2nd m/c a little "better" (if that's possible) had you not been or felt so connected to the baby/pregnancy. There's a part of me that feels like the next time I'm pg I will walk around in denial of it until I actually have a baby live. I don't know if I want anyone to say a word about it to me. I don't know if that would make another loss easier to bear..."

This is something I've been wondering about too. But the more I think about it, the more I know that if I'd been in denial about my baby I'd think THAT'S what caused the m/c. Doing anything less than bonding heart and soul I feel would be robbing my baby of any love I have to give. I want to be able to say that every day the baby was with me I loved it the best way I knew how. I truly don't have any regrets about bonding with the baby. I'd probably do the same thing again...but this time around I'd understand there are no guarantees. Does that make any sense? I can't articulate very well what I'm thinking...

Anyway, I hope all the ladies on this thread are finding peace and comfort.
Love and Hugs...


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## rockys (Apr 1, 2003)

I am so, so sorry for your loss.

I think you are doing the right thing. Asking questions, gaining information. Then, going with your gut.

You can believe everything that you believe and strongly. But pregnancy and childbirth are funny things. You have to be able to add flexibility to what you want and don't want.

My first pregnancy I wanted as little done as possible. I went into pre-term labor and no one believed me. The doctor's kept sending me how. I was begging for any intervention and I couldn't get it. My son was born about a week later at 24 weeks via crash emergency c-section. Due to extensive brain damage, he was never able to breast feed. Everything (and I mean everything I dreamed and planned of was put on its head).

For my next pregnancy, I did what you did. I asked questions and planned. I realized that while I needed a superb doctor, I also need someone who would listen to me and take direction from me. I knew a lot. I found that doctor and together we made up a plan for how the pregnancy would go. I delivered (as was the plan) a 8 lb., 4 oz. boy via scheduled c-section at 36 weeks.

Three months ago, I had my first miscarriage. I wanted more than anything to have it happen naturally. I thought it did but I was wrong. I almost became septic b/c of old tissue. They did an emergency evacuation with no anesthesia (ouch!).

Through my experiences, I have learned that you just have to roll with it. Take each day as it comes and be prepared for flexiblity.

I pray your next pregnancy is easy and brings you a healthy baby.

Raquel


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## gossamer (Feb 28, 2002)

With my pregnancy, I wanted as non-interventionist as possible. My definition of a successful pregnancy and birth was very detailed and comprehensive. Any medication during pregnancy, was a failure. Bedrest, was a failure. Ultrasounds were a failure. Induction was a fialure. C-Section was a failure etc... After losing my daughter due to pre-eclampsia, my definition of a successful pregnancy and birth has changed. If I get to bring home a baby, VICTORY!!!!!!!!! I have said before, if I have to push that baby out through my left nostril, I will if that is what it takes to bring home a baby. SO I don't know what my plans are for the next pregnancy. I am already beginning to interview doctor's even though we don't plan to TTC until next spring, but I want to be ready and have a game plan in the works.
Gossamer


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## SweetTeach (Oct 5, 2003)

Quote:

But the more I think about it, the more I know that if I'd been in denial about my baby I'd think THAT'S what caused the m/c.
You know Kate, I didn't think about it this way. Thanks for responding to that question. I think I want to find the reasons why I should bond with a new pg, and what you said resonates with me.

Raquel- thank you and I'm sorry for your loss as well. You're right about flexibility and if it's one thing this loss has taught me is to plan for flexibility, if that makes sense.

Gossamer-

Quote:

After losing my daughter due to pre-eclampsia, my definition of a successful pregnancy and birth has changed. If I get to bring home a baby, VICTORY!!!!!!!!! I have said before, if I have to push that baby out through my left nostril, I will if that is what it takes to bring home a baby.
OK, so my definition of a successful pg was a little different than your pre-loss of ds. I had already begun to be more open to the range of possibilities that could exist (which was a change from how I was pre pg and at the beginning of my pg.)
But now it's the "whatever it takes" part that truly confounds me! I still believe the things I believed before because I had done my research. So I'm not comfortable (right now) with the idea of a planned c/s or a planned induction because I know there are many things that can go wrong with that, for mother and baby. I worry about having extra sonograms because I just don't feel comfortable with them (or at least I didn't ).

I worry that I won't be able to find the balance between "appropriate interventions" and letting my body do what it "knows how to do".
Right, because my body wasn't able to bring a baby to term alive, so does it make sense to even claim for myself the second category? That's kind of my question. Do I have a belief system about pg and childbirth that makes sense to me but experience a different reality because I'm not "normal". And I don't mean that in a negative way, necessarily. I think I might be rambling cause I'm very tired, so I'll stop and try to clarify later on.


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## shannon0218 (Oct 10, 2003)

Why? I know so what you are saying Gossamer. But how does a fairly non-intervention based trust in your own body person come to peace with that, "The only failure is not bringing home a live baby" thought.
Its so hard and sometimes I feel guilty knowing that I will likly do whatever my OB suggest


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

I have never lost a child so I hope you don't mind me popping in. I did have less than perfect birth out comes that totally colored my perception of what a perfect birth entailed (one was a compliocated pregnancy ending in pre mature delivery and one that just stopped breathing and the we had nothing we could do but hope she started again. it was a more or less unassiste after the second I was of the mid suddenly that birth was frought with danger at every turn and there was nothign I could do to prevent it. Mdeline high intervention didn't help, Lilys no intervention didn't work). I found the perfect combination of high tech and low tech. My midwife was so supportive and understoood my fears and was willing to take things at my pace. If she felt strongly that I needed something she would state her case strongly and passionately but no arm twisting. If I needed something she thought was unessecary she understood that there was comfort in that for me and would do it within reason (for example an extra ultrasound, more frequent prenatals just to hear the heartbeat and check movement). There is a lot to be said for comfort measures. Everything was there at our disposal but nothing was used without much thought and permission. I think I made it through without sucumbing to too much intervention and had a completely intervention free birth even in a medical setting. even the nurses afterward were hand picked and did things specifically different for her clients. I htink you can walk somewherein the middle while still maintianing A) pregnancy and birth is natural and usually goes very well B) I didn't do anything to cause this and nothing could have been done differently to preven it. Like I said the comfort measures go a long way. I liked hearing my babies heartbeaton the doppler. it helped me sleep at night. I liked taking antibiotics when I needed them. It gave me instant results and instantly alieviated my fears. I liked peaking in with an ultra sound. It gave me assurance that things were going smoothly. totally unessecary and potentially harmful but it is what I needed. I don't think she would have consented to one every week but the two I had were fine with her. Anyway, my point it that sometimes we just need a more hands on approach to ease our spirits and that is totally OK. And even if you go over board that is OK to because you need what you need.







Butit is possible to find a HCP who is supportive, understanding and who will help you balance whatyou need and don't need.

I also wanted to add that I am so sorry for all of your losses.


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## SweetTeach (Oct 5, 2003)

bumping this thread for catmuse11- I still have lots of the same questions you do.
...post more later


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## shannon0218 (Oct 10, 2003)

I had forgotten about this thread. As I had predicted, I've "craved" intervention this time around. I'm at 9.5 weeks and I don't see it stopping.
My OB has been wonderful and has really let me take the lead on it. However Ihave severe hyperemis gravidarum so thus far I've been hospitalized twice, and currently have a central line placed and hospital in the home likely until I hit 12 weeks (it'll all go away at 12 weeks right? RIGHT???)
Because I'm a stresser anyway and she's concerned with how my stress level will effect things she has actually arranged for super quick ultrasounds. I have literally had a couple 30 sec U/S's I see that little heart beating and calm down instantly. It's hard because with one of my miscarriages I was suspicious because my morning sickness just suddenly stopped--so now if I manage to keep down a sip of water without feeling like it takes all I've got to keep it down--I'm convinced I've lost the baby. My husband is a little confused, he can't understand why if don't feel like I'm dying for 5 minutes I'm convinced the baby has died.








I do have to have a more in depth U/S today as I had some bleeding yesterday. I'll let you all know.


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## Ellie'sMom (Aug 10, 2002)

Gosh. I've been avoiding this board for months (ran away in a fit of depression after my 1st m/c), and now I see this thread and remember why I need to be here. I've been going round and round with this issue in my head this week and have had nobody to talk to about it. But of course here you all are! You women are phenomenal.

So here I sit a week after my second m/c. If you'd asked me last weekend, I'd tell you that I had a definite plan for the next time around and that I was feeling so comforted by that. Within 24 hours of my d&c I had an appointment with an RE who specializes in recurrent m/c. I will go and get all of the testing done. Take aspirin, progesterone, have early u/s, whatever it takes...and then have my homebirth.

Now I am questioning this. Am I setting myself up for disappointment when I don't get guarantees or definitive answers? But what about the guilt I will feel if I do nothing and then have another loss?

I am just starting to work through all of this, so I have no real answers to provide. I want to thank you, SweetTeach for starting this thread. It so helps to have a place to hash this out.

Shannon: I'm thinking of you this morning. Lots of







thoughts and prayers.


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## gossamer (Feb 28, 2002)

Quote:

Why? I know so what you are saying Gossamer. But how does a fairly non-intervention based trust in your own body person come to peace with that, "The only failure is not bringing home a live baby" thought.
I am able to come to peace with it all because I know I would have difficulty surviving the loss of another child. I am willing to allow my care for the baby to be as natural as possible and I hope to encourage my daughter to have as natural a pregnancy and birth as possible, if I have daughters. BUt my life has changed and I don't have the confidence in my body I once had. I guess I kind of feel like that as far as pregnancy and birth go, I am playing a totally different game than most of the women here on this board. Different game with different rules.
Gossamer


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## shannon0218 (Oct 10, 2003)

You're right Gossemer, it is a different game with different rules. I know I'm only 9.5 weeks, but I've actually considered being induced in an effort to guarentee MY ob who I trust is the one delivering me. I think that's the worst, I trust nobody, least of all myself.
I had my U/S, baby is still fine, but I have a small tear/separation between the chorion and amnion. They will redo an U/S on Friday and if it's the same size or smaller they will call it nothing to worry about. I'm on sort of semi bedrest right now. Sitting is fine, can only be on my feet for 30 min at a time, no lifting anything, etc. If I start to bleed again, I will be put on real bedrest, being allowed to get up only to go to the bathroom.
Jenny, I'm glad to see you here. How are you doing?


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