# nursing and night waking beyond 12 months



## toothlesswonder (Dec 11, 2001)

I am curious to know what your nursing and night sleep patterns are, especially after the approximated 12 month mark, when babies' metabolism changes. Answer whatever ones apply to you.

2 months ago, when baby was 12 months old, i kind of had a breakdown due to sleep exhaustion due to 2 hour nursing around the clock, and other health concerns. We explored the Gordon and Pantley methods a little bit. Gordon's idea of making waking at night a little less appealing, but only after 12 months of age, made a lot of intuitive sense to us. Several nights we kind of did the first stage of Gordon, but never went beyond that. After that, every night we explained "no nursing until morning" and it was like when he woke up to ask for it, he EXPECTED us to turn him down. At the same time, during the day we started giving him some whole milk bottles, (and he's always been a good eater too). he often prefers the bottle to nursing, i think he loves the freedom to have his milk and run around at the same time.

I have noticed a direct relationship between slowing down my nursing and increased sleep stretches at night. I don't know if it was a fluke or not, but gradually, his sleep got better and better at night, till now, 2.5 months after we started, he CONSISTENLY sleeps about 8 hours at night!!! I don't know exactly what worked, perhaps a combination of all those things.


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## onehipmomma (Nov 19, 2001)

My ds is 17 mos he nurses for brief periods throughout the day (when I am home, I work fulltime) he sleeps for about 4 straight hours and then is up once an hour from then on. he is a typical toddler when it comes to eating: lots sometimes, nothing others, NO veggies, ever unless they are disguised *sigh*

We just bought the No Cry Sleep solution and are hoping to stretch the 4 hours to 6. our biggest problem is lack of routine.


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## indiegirl (Apr 15, 2002)

12-20 months were the absolute worst with our dd and her sleep patterns. It was crazy. Up every hour screaming, inconsolable--angry and unhappy. We were all unhappy. I used to call 11pm the "witching hour" cause Violet would always wake up then and it woudl be an absolute nightmare to get her back to bed before 2-3am.

What helped was when we moved her into her own room and a big bed. At 24 mo she generally sleeps though the night now--and is easily settled.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Most nights my 2 yr. old Ds sleeps a 3 hour stretch, followed by a 5 hour stretch, followed by another 3 hours stretch. This is tolerable. He has only been doing it since we started the Pantley method -- before that it was every 30-90 min. I doubt he'll progress to longer stretches anytime soon. He has some respiratory issues and seems to get sick every month or so, which really sets us back on a regular basis. But I think I can live with this routine.

He nurses all day long as much as I'll let him. I swear, the kid would be happy if I spent all day long in bed nursing him. He stops every now and then to kiss me passionately on my lips and compliment my "treats" as he now calls my breasts, and then goes back to town.

My older child slept EXACTLY the length of time between daytime nursings. So, if I nursed him every 4 hours during the day, he'd wake every 4 hours at night. He self-weaned around 14 months and then went to waking 1x a night for snuggles (he was in his own bed) and that lasted until he was 3 or so.


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

I voted 6+ hours, but it's really 11 hours, and while she gets offered cow's milk during the day (with meals), I would guess she has about 2 ounces in total, so I don't consider that supplementing. Sleeping has never been a problem for my kids.


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## NorthernLight (Apr 13, 2002)

My son is 11 months now (maybe I should not have voted







) He sleeps for a big 4 hour chunk at first, then wakes every 2 to 3 hours until morning. He eats a very wide variety of mushy food and is still breastfeeding with no suppliments.


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## hasnoptnce (Jul 1, 2002)

My 22 month old is allergic to so many things, including cow's milk. She nurses every few hours during the day, and would do more if I would let her! At night she is up every few hours too, and cannot go to sleep unless I nurse her. This means, obviously, no one else can put her down for a nap, or get her back to sleep during the night. Any suggestions??


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## Sahara (Nov 28, 2001)

DS is 15 months old, eats solids regularly, and nurses every 4-6 hours during the day. He sleeps a 2-3 hour stretch, then a 4-6 hour stretch, then a 1-3 hour stretch. He generally only wakes up when he needs to pee, then nurses back to sleep but it only takes a minute or two. It is fine with me, I get enough sleep. I take a nap with him about once a week and that seems to catch me up. This all goes out the window with teething, of course.
I don't know, my DS went through a rough sleep spell from 11 to about 13 months, and he just sort of grew out of it.


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## anotherthinkingmum (Jul 2, 2002)

My dd is 13 mths, nurses as much as I tolerate (which is an awful lot, up to 2 or 3 times in an hour when she's got a cold or teething) during the day, and same at night. Night pattern varies enormously, from every 2 or so hours some nights, to as much as every 1/2 hour or so, swapping sides endlessly, feeling like I get zero actual *rest*. Though I'm strongly committed to extended breastfeeding, some have suggested limiting day feeds to improve the night situation, others have suggested controlled crying, the no cry sleep solution, the Pantley method, etc. Anyone have any favourites?

I'm feeling quite torn about my perceived schism between what's good for her (ie let her do what she wants) and what's good for me (ie no more night feeds - or at least down to one?).

It's great to read about how common this problem is - makes me feel better in the face of older relatives looking askance at me when I say she's still in bed with us and wakes a lot.

Cheers,

Tammi


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## amy (Nov 29, 2001)

Hi, I also have a 13 month-old who usually sleeps in small intervals --anywhere from 1/2 hour stretches to 3 hours (we used to get the occasional 6 or 8 hour stretch but no such luck anymore). She nurses to go down for naps and bedtime and everytime she wakes up at night. If she wakes up and I'm not around and she can't nurse, she's IRATE. I want to keep her in bed with us for awhile still, I like having her with us, but I have to say that I do wonder if she'll ever learn to fall back asleep without nursing. I don't see her stopping of her own accord ever.

I'd like to hear more about the Gordon and Pantley methods and the no cry method people are referring to. Right now she nurses every 2 to 4 hours usually in the day, eats a lot of food, has no milk...do people agree that frequent nursing in the day causes more frequent nursing at night? Also, a concern I have about night nursing ending...I wouldn't want it to cause her to wean herself during the day yet. I'd love to hear other people's experiences with dealing with night nursing. Thanks!


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## shanleysmama (Mar 9, 2002)

DD didn't start sleeping thru the night until she was 2. I remember her being 16 mo, and I had moved her crib from beside our bed to next to the wall (I was preggo with DS), and we had a witching hour! 1:00 to 3:00 a.m., every night, and I would try to get her back to sleep without nursing, but no way! I ended up bringing her to bed with me every night. Her crib is back next to our bed, she nurses 1-2x a day.
DS is 16 mo, and he wakes up a lot at night, and won't go back to sleep without nursing - no backpatting or pacifier has ever worked. Last night he was up 3 times in 45 minutes. It can be exhausting. He nurses when he gets up, before nap, after nap, nurses now and then thruout the day, then nurses to sleep. He eats 3 meals a day, plus snacks.
I would LOVE to know how to get him to sleep longer stretches! We have a big 'ol family bed, all four of us, I wonder if that keeps him waking up.
Melanie


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## islandmama (Nov 19, 2001)

I've been away for almost 3 months, and I'm so glad to be back! My daughter sleeps for a 3 hour stretch and then is up at least every 2 hours. She's 15 months old. I'm just so happy to be back where others are going through the same thing I am. I'm exhausted. She has been doing this since day one, except for one 6 hour stretch. All my friends babies sleep through the night and then complain when their child wakes up once. I wish they could feel how tired I am! Every night I think, this is the night that it will change. I can't wait for that day! I know that she will sleep when she is ready and doesn't need me!


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## anotherthinkingmum (Jul 2, 2002)

Amy, I'm right there with you in hoping that night weaning won't change dd's day feedings, though I can't imagine it would?! We are feeling a wee bit desperate and are considering having dd sleep with dh for a few nights (while I hide in a bed where I can't hear her! or I won't cope, wimp, wimp) so she still has the comfort of a dear parent, but no milk. At 13mths, I believe she doesn't *require* the milk (as ds didn't), but I also think she's pretty dependent on it. I've heard of others (on these boards and elsewhere) doing this - what do others think? I'd love to keep sleeping with her, just not constant nursing every night!

So torn...


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## hasnoptnce (Jul 1, 2002)

It is so reassuring to keep reading that others are spending their nights the same way I do! I was told that the only way to stop the all-night nursing was to stop the day nursing too. I really don't want to do that, but I am really tired!!


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## EllasMama (Nov 20, 2001)

Our DD is 17 mos. - goes to bed when we do and usually has one long stretch (4-6 hours) before waking to nurse, followed by increasingly shorter ones. I'm guessing she nurses 2-3 times a night on top of nursing to sleep and when she wakes up. She is finally showing interest in eating solids at 3 meals a day plus occasionally a snack - but the quantity typically is fairly small. She nurses about every 3 hours during the day. We have family allergies and she is obviously sensitive to dairy, so we're thrilled that she is nursing so much (though not always so thrilled in the middle of the night when she screams if I take my boob away from her mouth!).

-Carol


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## amy (Nov 29, 2001)

It is reassuring to read about other people going through this. After hearing so many people talk about the Pantley method the other day, I did a search for it, read about it and ordered the book. It sounds like it has helped some people, so I think I'll give it a try. I think my main goal is just that our 13month-old learns to be able to sleep without nursing to sleep at some point and that she can be put down to sleep and comforted if she wakes up by my husband. I'm working 2 nights a weeks soon and he'll have night duty, so I think it's important. Anotherthinkingmum, if you do try hiding out in another bed, let us know how it goes.

Another question: Has anyone out there had a child that was a super avid night nurser who did learn on their own to fall back asleep without night nursing? And if so, how old were they?


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## mama2m&m (Nov 19, 2001)

I'm kind of on the fence about this issue. My dd is 17 mos. gets soy milk during the day at daycare and usually no milk at home except mama's milk. and other milk products.

She tends to nurse frequently when I'm home and lately has been nursing 4-6 times between 9p and 5:30 a.m. Can you say tired? Her normal pattern was 1-2x a night around 12a and 4a. She goes to sleep between 8-10 and sleeps until around 12-1 then she comes in our bed. She also eats table food regularly for the most part but does pick certain times.

I was in a quandry because I wanted to help her learn to go to sleep but not quite ready to night wean. Since I work full time outside the house, it's very important to me to nurse when I'm home to keep my supply up. So I don't mind the occasional 1-2x a night but any more than that is so tiring.

I got pantley and started reading but got stuck on the logs. I worked really hard at not looking at the clock when she wakes to nurse so now that I have to not only look at the clock but time it is not convenient, but we'll see how it goes. Now I need to do the analyizing. I really just hope that she'll fall asleep a little easier. I see I'm not alone in some of my toddler's nursing habits and it's a comfort though I'm sorry we have to go through these not so pleasant parts of parenthood. But it does help the sweet things seem oh so much better! And now I'll stop rambling LOL!


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## mom at home (Nov 19, 2001)

I didn't vote because nightwaking and food aren't necessarily related. My second dd was addicted to nursing at night until I weaned her at 2.5 yrs because I was tired of not getting any sleep.

Toddlers are usually much more demanding nursers than babies because it's more comfort and less food oriented. I don't think my 2 yr old was nursing all night because she was hungary. She just wanted mama. She's now 4.5 and weaned but still wants mama at night. Weaning doesn't necessarily mean the end of nightwaking.

Last night I asked her if she could/would go to sleep at bedtime by herself once we get her new bed set up. She said "no, mama, not until I'm 14. Then I'll go to bed without you.

My 6 yr old still wakes up and wants one of us occasionally as well. I'm resigned to nightwaking lasting quite a few more years. But nightwaking without nursing is a lot easier to deal with and so it does get easier.


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## anotherthinkingmum (Jul 2, 2002)

Hi again. Things are still the same with dd (waking every 1-3 hours each night, feeding then and every 1/2-3 hrs in the day, plus heaps of solids & other fluids). I re-read the Sears' atttitude in "The Baby Book" and was reinvigorated to keep at it and gently work on her habits. So instead of hiding out in another bed, I'm trying to stretch out her feeds a bit during the day on the theory that this might help at night. It's early days yet, but I'll report any change to those interested! If that goes well, then we may try the other bed for me and dd alone with dh in our bed.

Momathome, I totally agree that nightwaking is not only about feeding. Our almost 3y.o. still joins us most nights, but is quite content to climb into our bed and go right back to sleep. This gives us great cuddle sessions in the morning with all four of us, but also lets us start the night more easily (well, once we get dd out of there, is the theory!). We're aiming for this outcome with both eventually. LIke you, we don't mind nightwaking, it's just the constancy of dd's and the fact that it has to be me to help her go back to sleep with a feed. We can't go out for dinner past 9pm at the moment (leaving kids with the grandparents) b/c dd is due to wake up around then.







: I NEED more of a night out with dh!!!

aaaahhh... the joys and frustrations...


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## kaje62 (Nov 20, 2001)

Charlie is nearing 16 months.

I have night weaned for about three and half weeks now. This all came up after I went for my yearly exam to the doctor and mentioned my struggle with night nursing. I guess I was feeling a bit depressed and way sleep deprived. As I would usually nurse 6-8 times in the middle of the night.

I am thinking about BABY No. 2, so I asked the doctor if she was worried about me getting pregnant at age 40 and being a full figured gal and she said she was more worried about my emotional health and my sleep. So she encouraged me to kick Charlie out of our bed, wean him and for me to exercise daily. She told me I need to sack out 6-8 hours a nite. And she said we should have sex 2-3 times a week.

So I take everything with a grain of salt, I am not anxious to kick him out of bed. I hope to exercise a couple times a week and if we do sex a couple times a month, we will be doing good. And sleep, I won't argue with that but it seems real foreign. Does that sound like a good compromise?

So I called my lactation consultant, who I adore and she said to have DH start sleeping with Charlie and me in another room. She recommended not putting Charlie in the crib yet cuz that would be too much change for him at once.

It has been working out great. I feel more patient and less overwhelmed and he is way more snuggly during the day. And he nurses more during the day too. He slept through the night a few times but fell out of bed the third night, which was a set back. That happened once with me too, so I won't fire daddy yet. But we made some changes like Charlie by the wall, not daddy, DUH!!! And he slept through the nite last night.

I am waiting to go back to the family bed. I am not invited back yet. I miss them!! I sleep with the 67 pound dog. We all shared a bed in a hotel about a ten days ago and it was a nursery night.

Have to say I feel a little guilty. Cuz some mama's nurse in the middle of the night and never complain. I guess at 15 1/2 months I burnt out. We are nursing more and cuddling more during the day. So I feel guilty and great at the same time.


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## hasnoptnce (Jul 1, 2002)

KAJE62- how was it when you moved to another bed and dad was left to tend to the night wakings? Did the baby cry for you or was he content to snuggle up with dad right away? And in the past, was it only you who could get him back to sleep or was dad able to do it too? I need all the help I can get!!!


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## kaje62 (Nov 20, 2001)

I was so surprised that daddy was willing to do this. I could not believe how cooperative he was with the whole thing. I think he also sleeps better now.

The plan was daddy would give him a sippy cup, rock him or rub him and lactation consultant said if he cried more than twenty minutes to bring him to me. I barely slept the first two nights cuz my ears were on. The first night I waited for Daddy to bring him to me but he never did and never has.

Well, I hate to say it was so easy but I do not think that the longest he cried was not more than five minutes which was only in the very beginning. And he does not wail he kinda whimpers. So, it has gone real well. He has slept through the night like 10-7 and last night 7-5, many times but...he kicks and moves around a lot.

We stayed in a strange bed all together over the 4th and that messed us up a bit. But we are about back on track. So now we have to figure out when mommy goes back into the bed and when baby moves to his crib, if ever!!!


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## girrllie (Nov 20, 2001)

I didn't vote since DD is 11 mos., but I'm totally exhausted. She night nurses every hour practically. I'm going to order pantley's book tonight actually as I truly can't live this way. I end up up all night and wide awake to boot.

No one has answered the question about night nursing effecting day nursing. I asked this at my last LLL meeting, b/c I do not want to wean! I, too, was scared that night weaning would mean the baby would day wean herself. But my LLL leader said that there is no relationship - that actually most night weaned babies end up nursing more during the day (which for my DD would be impossible since she nurses every 1.5 hours practically during the day!- LOL!). Just thought I would add this. Thanks for all the posts - they make it seem a little more normal.


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## kaje62 (Nov 20, 2001)

charlie does nurse more now during the day especially in the morning. it is sweet.


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## Luma (Nov 21, 2001)

oooooooooops!! sorry, I meant to post a thread!


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## stinkerbean's mom (May 7, 2002)

My dd just turned one on July 15. She nurses frequently during the day, usually going no longer than 3 hours. At night, she will sleep one 3 hour stretch before waking, sometimes she will go back to sleep without nursing, but usually not. Then she will wake about every 2 hours after that, gradually working her way to being permanently latched on for the last 2 hours of sleep for the night. She actually eats a *huge* amount of solids during the day, so I guess I am a little surprised that she still wakes to nurse so much during the night.

I bought the "No Cry Solution" book a while back and I have used some of the suggestions, particularly letting dd fall asleep *without* nursing to sleep (she did not like that at first, but now does this easily most times, even for her naps). But so far, no change. The thing I find frustrating is that she actually slept really well for the first 3 months of her life. She would sleep between 5-10 hours at night. Then all heck broke loose LOL. *sigh* I am hoping to see some change in the next month or so because I am going back to school in the fall, and I really need to do well. I don't know how I will cope if I am a zombie all the time, like I am now.

I have been thinking about trying Dr. Jay Gordon's method, but dd gets very angry and starts to scream if I don't nurse her on demand in the middle of the night. So I don't know.


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## Xenogenesis (May 1, 2002)

Okay, so how many folks actually sack out 6-8 hours a nite without waking for a drink, a pee, something to eat or just to look and see everything is alright. I seriously think we have way too many expectations of "a good night's sleep". Just my two cents. uh-huh.

Laila.


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## ilex (Apr 30, 2002)

I actually just came onto this forum to start a thread on this very topic.

I completely agree with you Laila. I have never understood why parents expect their children to sleep through the night when most adults don't. i know I usually wake up at least 2x nightly to either pee or get a drink.









My dd is 15 mo and goes through periods of waking 1-2x nightly to waking every 1-2 hrs. She bf's every couple of hours during the day, eats a lot of solids some days but usually has little and mostly subsists on breastmmilk. Yes, the nights that she wakes so often are hard, but it is usually caused by something out of the ordinary such as teething or growth spurts or having eaten something that doesn't agree with her etc. IMO these kids are going through some major milestones and there sleep is going to be a bit wacky as I'm sure their bodies are feeling a bit wacky as well.

I often hear how children that sleep alone sleep longer, even when bf. And I have often wondered how sleeping with us effects them on this level, if they would sleep *better* alone? Not that I would ever suggest that co-sleeping prevents children from sleeping well, quite the contrary, but I wonder about this all too common comparison of frequent waking co-sleepers, and sound asleep alone-sleepers.

I think nightwaking has a lot to do with diet, age, level of stimulation during the day, and what milestones the child is going through. Of course it could be one of a thousand things. But I would look at things such as if my child is eating sugar, if I am eating sugar, caffeine, unusual foods, if there could be a food sensitivity, temp. of the room, uncomfortable clothing... the other night my dd was waking constantly until I realized her pjs were a bit small (growth spurt







and that her legs were cool. I changed her and she proceeded to sleep peacefully for the rest of the night.








Take care, ~Holly


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## saturnine25 (Mar 26, 2002)

I didn't vote, since my daughter is 11 months, but just thought I'd share the routine my daughter has created. Dd nurses and falls asleep at 8 p.m. each night. I usually let her sleep snuggled on my lap until I go to bed, around 11 p.m., bringing her with me. She nurses at 10 p.m. for about 5-10 min. but does not awaken fully, then does not nurse again until 5 a.m., again not fully awakening, and awakens for the day/ nurses at 8 a.m. Exceptions to this routine occur during teething spells- then she is nursing every hour.


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## momtoo (Jun 7, 2002)

I have a theory on why co-sleepers are accused of nightwaking more than those who sleep alone (whether or not BF). Babies are noisy, active sleepers. When in her crib, dd will whine or moan and roll and kick... and fade back to sleep most times. In our bed, she'll do the same, wake me up (more, uh, directly then just hearing her) and I will shove a breast in her mouth to get us all back to sleep quickly. Same behavior; different response.
With our first dd, the noisy sleep in the next room didn't completely wake me. Number two likes it better in our bed, and will stand up in her crib and demand to come back -- several times a night. (it's a comedy -- she'll fall asleep on my shoulder the instant I pick her up, but I dare not put her in her crib for at least 15 minutes. she remembers mommy, and is angry when she wakes again in her crib.) We're trying to get her to "morning only" after 5am family bed, but no luck yet. yawn.


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## Mary (Nov 19, 2001)

My son goes to bed typically around 9pm (give or take). His first waking is usually around 2:30, but he's gone as long as 4:30. After that first waking, he's up every 1 1/2-2 hours. When I say wake up, I mean wrestling around and crying out for me to snuggle or nurse him. I really can't complain to much about this arrangement. Everyone in this house gets enough sleep!

As for eating during the day- he loves to eat. He also loves to nurse. He would nurse every hour if I let him. I do actually cut him back because I can't do the every hour thing. He's ok with it.

He's 19 months old.


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## MtlMama (Jul 6, 2002)

My son is 17 months old, and falls asleep without nursing in his crib, but then wakes at around 10 or 11, and we bring him into our bed. I used to nurse him at this time, but have just cut this out. He usually wakes up 2 or 3 times before 7 am to nurse. As soon as our houseguests leave, I am going to try to cuddle him to sleep, without nursing. He will then be down to nursing 3 times during the day (am, after lunch, after supper)... And I have found that each nursing session that is eliminated is easier and less traumatic than I anticipate. The toughest part was way back at around 10 months when he was learning to fall asleep without nursing to sleep, so my husband could also put him to bed.
Has anyone else had the crib and family bed experience?


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## sueami (Oct 11, 2002)

this is in response to a question from amy about avid night nursers getting to sleep on their own. i had one & she did. at about 2 yrs 3 mos. she self-weaned in the first trimester of my pregnancy and slept through the night then. she was getting down to waking just once or twice a night by then anyway.
ds is 14 mos and wakes every 1-3 hours at night. it's easier for me to take this time around, knowing it will end eventually...
take care and take heart,
susan


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## amy (Nov 29, 2001)

Hi Susan,
Thanks for the words of encouragement. I keep hoping that my daughter will eventually self-wean...maybe whenever I'm pregnant next because I don't want to tandem nurse. I've been wanting to hear stories of people whose children did make this step around 2 or so while pregnant. It brings hope... My question back to you would be was she still nursing alot during the day when you got pregnant? My daughter ...now almost 21 months still nurses A LOT during the day, and it's really hard to imagine how that will just slow down on its own. Thanks again for the words of encouragement. I've just found it all a little more challenging lately so thanks!
amy


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## Bearsmama (Aug 10, 2002)

Hi. My 13 mo DS has been "sleep challenged" since birth. Literally-Dr. said MOST babies sleep after the trauma of birth and that we should enjoy the time to catch up on ours. Well, that never happened.

I have posted a few times to get suggestions and moral support about our sleep struggles. DS's sleep is the worst, of course, when he's getting a tooth. Which lately seems like it's happening every other week.

I did notice, however, that after a particularly terrible week a few back that DS seems to have turned a corner. No, it's still not great, but now when we get into bed (we co-sleep) he can sometimes go maybe 5-6 hours between the 12am-7am. Not bad. I'll take it. Before we get into bed, most nights about 11:30 or so, he tends to wake up a few times needing to nurse to go back.

Honestly, the sleep deprivation of the past year has been BY FAR the hardest thing I've ever dealt with. Not just the actual lack of sleep, but how it spills over to your health, emotional and otherwise. It kills your spirit after a while, too. So these longer stretches are helping me be a much happier mommy!


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## momtoo (Jun 7, 2002)

MamaP,
I've been trying for months (and backsliding during every cold and molar) to get DD to sleep for longer stretches at night. We've been between bed and crib, but it has worked well to simply walk around cuddling her rather than nursing. If DH is handy, even better. She's tired enough to complain mightily for three minutes then crash on a cozy shoulder with her other arm around her giraffe. I know she doesn't feel abandoned, but the payoff is less worth waking for... The hard part is once she's in bed with us to GET UP and walk around with my darling little parasite. (that's 3:30 AM talking...) Much luck.


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## Momtwice (Nov 21, 2001)

My dd who was breastfed until she was done









did not sleep through the night at age one.

My main objection to society's expectations is that they expect a baby to sleep through the night and then KEEP DOING IT. This is just a myth for many, many, dozens of parents...hundreds? Thousands?

My dd slept through the night about half the time at 2 and at age 3 could sometimes fall asleep without nursing (without being sad.)

She gradually spaced out her nursings. She gradually slept longer periods. BUT!!!! There were the classic times that stressed her out and made her wake MORE often like growth spurts...even up to and past age 3 she would nurse more often before a growth spurt! Or when she was sad that her older sibling started school. Or on the rare occasion she was sick. Or when teething. Or around the holidays. Or if her dad was working extra hours. Etc. Etc. Etc.

The last few months of the first year were the hardest in terms of nightwaking and frequent nightnursing.

The older she got, the more I could negotitate a bit. Nurse one time, another time say "mommy's tired now" (while cosleeping and cuddling) and she would except that, SOMETIMES. It was a relationship that grew.

Both anthroplogist Katherine Dettwyler and Mothering magazine said that many children sleep through the night at age three, so I found it comforting that my child was "normal" whatever that means. But it was not hell for three years. It gradually got better, again, with those crazy times that messed that up.

Hope that makes sense.


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## Christi (Nov 21, 2001)

I have just night weaned my 18 month old. He sleeps for about 12 hours straight. I only nurse him twice a day and sometimes less if dad or grandpa are giving him his nap. So I think he is weaning himself


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## eebee (Feb 23, 2003)

i have an 18 month old who wakes every 2 to 4 hours usually, often with smaller intervals towards morning. my husband and i are both depressed and feel awful due to lack of sleep. my boy mostly just nurses to go to sleep aside from the occasional bout of comfort feeding. he eats lots of solids and has bottles of milk when i'm not around. we used to use a crib but he started to really hate it. it was an ordeal to get him in there with out waking him. we are using the "floor bed" idea from pantley combined with much time in bed with us.
i need sleep.
i am getting tired of waiting for him to get past needign to nurse to sleep.


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## hasnoptnce (Jul 1, 2002)

Oh I can totally relate!! My 2 1/2 year old just started sleeping through the night. She still wakes sometimes, but goes back to sleep now with just a drink of water. I have been very tired and depressed too, so I can't tell you how much better I am beginning to feel now. I did have to wean her though, and it wasn't easy. I felt terrible when she would ask, she still does sometimes, but my milk was almost gone, so I kept telling her that the "ba" was empty now because she was such a big girl, and didn't need it to be able to go to sleep. It takes her a while to fall asleep on her own, and I do lay with her until she is sleeping. (She sleeps in our bed). I wish I had some other great advice for you, because I have been there! I finally reached the point where I had no choice but to wean her. Now the problem is, I can't imagine doing this again. I don't think I have it in me, which makes me sad, because I always wanted to have more than one child. Good luck!


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## rsps (Nov 20, 2001)

ds nursed through the night till about 19 months old, then we night weaned, and a few months later he started sleeping through (most nights).

He gets rice and or soy milk and lots of cheese and yogurt for supp. "dairy"


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## dukeswalker (Feb 1, 2003)

My dd is 21 months old and her nursing pattern varies...Most days she nurses at nap time, an evening cocktail







and then to go down to bed. Up until about 2 weeks ago she was up anywhere from every hour to every 4 hours. Just recently I have begun telling her that "nu-nu's are sleeping" and that I'll hold her instead. I have tried this in the past and she NEVER bought it...so I would drop it, I figured she wasn't ready for that. Now she completely accepts it. If she wakes and is very persistent about nursing than I have no problem meeting her needs. yes, there are some days when I am exhausted and wish she wouldn't wake at night anymore but I wouldn't have it any other way. She is growing so fast and I am going to cherish every precious minute I have with her!







(even the exhausted ones!)


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

This thread is such welcome support. DS is 26 months and still waking at night (2 to 3 times). He nursed about 4 times during the day (am, nap, after nap and bedtime). Just after his second birthday, I began a night routine of nursing, then rocking, then putting him down awake... he bought it on the first try... I was shocked. More shocked that after that day, he was only waking once per night and a few times slept through, then...

He caught the mother of all colds. We were still going down awake for the first few days but when the misery set in, all bets were off. He's feeling better now and I feel like we're back to square one. We're taking it on a night by night basis. As luck would have it though, during the last cold, he also got his very last tooth. I think there is hope... but since we've reverted to nursing to sleep, the nightwaking has resumed. And now I face that nightly dilemma "should I put him down or not?" Will he buy it or will he become very upset and then take even longer to fall asleep but which time I too will be exauhsted?" *sigh*

The first go around with this, I just sort of "knew" it was time and that it would be ok. I don't get that feeling now... perhaps it's just a matter of waiting until I can read those positive cues again?

Sheesh, can't tell if I really contributed anything to this thread or just gave you all my tale of sleep deprivation woe... after 26 months, my brain could use a rest, no??


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## mamak (Mar 5, 2003)

Wow, nice to see so many others in the same boat. Our dd was soo easy to wean from night nursing, dh simply would get out of bed and rock her back to sleep, then bring her back to bed, this took about a week, then when she woke up I could just cuddle her and she would go back to sleep. she is now in her own bed, generally calls for dh or me between 4-5am and we bring her into bed w/ us and ds. Now this guy on the other hand...15 mo and all he wants to do is nurse, day, night, anytime, anywhere. We have tried a couple of times to wean from the night nursing and never have any success. I am crazy tired sometimes (I'm also a nursing student) and other times I feel ok, so I don't have any advise, nor do I know when this will end







I just enjoy those days when I don't feel affected mentally or physically.
Angie


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Right now I am really starting to feel like limited night weaning (4-5 hour stretch aof our 18 month old after he turns 2. Logically, I know this is our last child and that I only feel that way because we night-weaned DD that much right after two (I was pg), but it still rolls around in my head. I have a really hard time shaking the idea that it would be "okay" but then I am like "but *why* do it" since I get enough sleep, etc.. Oh well, six more months to decide.

kay


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## momtoo (Jun 7, 2002)

am I evil? exhaustion made me hand dd a pacifier of all things -- she's 17 months and played with it for the first time. she settled down at bedtime with her giraffe while contentedly sucking on the thing after nursing. I've been calling myself her "giant pacifier"as a joke -- could this be a break? is a pacifier awful? if it could have been this easy a year ago....augh...


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## JessicaS (Nov 18, 2001)

ugh...dd wakes often and HAS to nurse back to sleep or it is complete meltdown time. I guess she just need lots of comforting or something...We have tried the "nummies are sleeping" thing but it freaked her out.

I think we have awhile before we nightwean but we are ok with that.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by amy_
*It is reassuring to read about other people going through this
Another question: Has anyone out there had a child that was a super avid night nurser who did learn on their own to fall back asleep without night nursing? And if so, how old were they?*
i have one here! he's 26 months now and between about 9 months and 18-20 months or so, he was up several tiimes a night to nurse. i WOTH full time, so when he hit about 9 motnhs he decided he didn't want bottles of EBM anymore, he prefered to just nurse all night. in the last few months, he has started sleeping 11 hour stretches almost every night (he occaisionally wakes once to nurse, but this is rarer and rarer). i should qualify that - he doesn't always sleep through the whole 11 hours, sometimes he will wake up and snuggle clese to dh and i and go back to sleep all on his own. the only thing i did to encourage this is get pregnant







. i'm not actually sure if the two are related, but about two months ago, my supply dropped to nearly nothing, so i think he might just have decided it wasn't worth it to wake up to nurse - but who knows? he might have just been ready.


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

DD is almost 14 months old. By the time she was 4 months, she was sleeping through the night, believe it or not. We'd tried co-sleeping, the crib, and finally settled on a hammock next to our bed. It worked . . .until 6 months of age. Then she started waking very frequently (every 20 minutes to every 3 hours on a good night). She now wakes about every 1-2 hours, I think.

In terms of nursing, she does this very frequently (at least 1X an hour) and can nurse for long periods of time throughout the day. She is so-so about solid foods. I offer her meals and snacks regularly, but the amount she east greatly varies on a daily basis.

I never thought about the possibility of a daytime nursing correlating to nighttime nursing. . . hmm. Definitely something to ponder!


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## danieliausmama (Jul 25, 2004)

Don't you think it is teething? Why do they sleep so good at 2 or 3 monhts and then go back to short streches. My 13 month old has 4 molars and they made our nights and days very unpleasant.


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

danieliausmama,

Wow, I remember this thread so well, having been in the longtime throws of sleep deprivation myself. Since my post well over a year ago however, I am inclined to agree with you. Our lives changed when DS had all his teeth. He went back to putting himself to sleep, and sleeps through most nights. The only regressing we've done is due to nighttime fears/nightmares. Tiring also but not near the frequency or the work to get him back down as the old days.

Finishing teething seemingly was the magic for us, yes.









Em


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## NatureMama3 (Feb 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Last Minute*
Okay, so how many folks actually sack out 6-8 hours a nite without waking for a drink, a pee, something to eat or just to look and see everything is alright. I seriously think we have way too many expectations of "a good night's sleep". Just my two cents. uh-huh.

Laila.

:LOL certainly not me!

I'm actually happy if my son's nursing doesn't fully wake me (it doesn't by now, hasn't since about 7 months). What I desire is basically uninterrupted sleep. He learned to latch on his own and that happened!

I get up 2-4 times a night for my own drink/potty/etc anyway. :LOL

There actually IS research showing why cosleeping babies wake more and sleep less "soundly" and why that's a GOOD thing. It's one of the things that is a prevention for SIDS (since that happens when the baby's brain forgets to breathe). Coslept babies mirror their parents sleep patterns (so if baby is waking, which parent is coming out of a sleep pattern? LOL).

Another aspect to babies waking at night is the need to eliminate when in a lighter sleep pattern. In a non-diapered baby that would be a cue to potty them and then sleep would return. We may not all choose EC, but it's good to know why the babies are all wired that way and the effect it has.

FWIW to the poll: he nurses every 1-3 hours day and night (closer to 1 than 3 too :LOL). He eats solids regularly, but not a lot at this point. They're more for fun than nutrition.


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## Jenmama (Aug 27, 2004)

Greetings,
Italia is only a little over a year and I am exhausted. I am a full time student, finishing my teaching degree, and nightime is the only time for homework. So after she started rolling over, I had to resort to the crib. To get her to sleep, I nurse for about fifteen minutes or so, and then we have a wonderful toy in her crib with lights and music that fade in and out. (One of my homework saviours.) While the music plays, I lie next to her on the floor and pat her back. I feel silly at times, especially while crawling out of the room, so often to come right back after she wakes up fifteen minutes later. This has been going on for about a week. It seems to be getting easier.







She sleeps until about 11-12 o'clock and then comes to be with me.
Now onto the issue of the nighttime feedings. I don't mind nursing her when she comes to bed, but the constant demand for nursing and lack of sleep is making me physically and emotionally exhausted. If I won't nurse her, she doesn't want to have anything to do with me. This makes me sad because Dad and Grandma can comfort her without a bottle, why does she always have to have my breast. She will throw such a tantrum, not much fun.
Now she seem to have a fit the first couple of times I try to cuddle and rub her back and then will just fall asleep. What a blessing.
So now we nurse before bed, @ 12, @ 5, @7 and are working through the tantrums during the in between demands for my breast to be her pacifier.
Patience. I know I can make it through this.
Give thanks for the common ground to stand on.
I can feel very alone in this, some days.
Blessed Love,
Jennifer


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