# Heads up on FuzziBunz



## kgsd (Jan 12, 2006)

(From someone else









Below is an official notice from Mother of Eden about Fuzzi Bunz:

Dear Fuzzi Bunz Customers:

As of September 1, 2006, Fuzzi Bunz diapers will only be available as sets
(Fuzzi Bunz + insert). Previously, Fuzzi Bunz were available for separate
purchase (Fuzzi Bunz = $14.95, inserts = $3.00). The Fuzzi Bunz sets will
cost $17.95 (the same total cost as purchasing the Fuzzi Bunz and inserts
separately). You can still order extra inserts for $2.00 each. Thank you
for your continued support.


----------



## sparklechips (Dec 24, 2005)

That is insane. I'll pay $18 a diaper for BumGenius or even a Wonderoo becuase it's one size and I like the inserts. I will NOT pay that much for a FuzziBunz because I don't like the MOE inserts. I like using Joeybunz in there! I'm not paying for 2 sets of inserts! I am so ticked off right now! I guess I'll be looking for other options for the next size up diaper even though they are my favorites. Fuzzibunz are OUT but I'm not going to buy the next size up 5 or 6 months in advance to get them without the inserts!!


----------



## CawMama (Nov 4, 2005)

Ooohh...that's going to do some damage to their sales!


----------



## swell_mel (Jul 20, 2006)

So does this mean for all Fuzzibunz on every site or just a particular one?


----------



## mknight (Jun 19, 2006)

Every website...The email was from the maker of fuzzi bunz


----------



## ollineeba (Apr 12, 2005)

that's crazy







:


----------



## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

I won't be buying any then.

We use prefolds in them.


----------



## ibusymomto5 (Jan 29, 2003)

I was considering possibly getting just a few FB to try again. It's been a while since we've tried them, and while "I'm" not crazy about pockets in general I need something quick and convenient for the diaper bag for the church nursery when I might not be the one changing dd. I was wanting to avoid spending $20 each for aios.

Can I ask some of you FB users.. Are the inserts that come with them not good? Just wondering.


----------



## mamanurse (Jan 22, 2006)

That's crappy! I'm not fond of pockets, but end up using them at night for lack of a better option. I will never by fb though if they're only sold with their POS microterry inserts. That material holds stink and I've tried everything to get it out.


----------



## girl138 (Sep 30, 2005)

i like their inserts best with FBs and the majority of customers were buying them anyway. i don't think it's a big deal. my guess is that this is a response to the lesser quality free inserts shops usually give away with FBs and the customers thinking that the diapers were responsible for leaks when they weren't?







i really have no idea. i just don't think it's a big deal wither way.


----------



## ani'smommy (Nov 29, 2005)

Wow, that is really a bummer. I would never buy the MOE inserts -- we love joeybunz. Over 17.00 for FB? Toooo much.


----------



## dinkerandgiggles (Jul 4, 2006)

Doesn't bother me any....Never liked Fuzzi Bunz!!!

There are many other WAHM diaper makers out there that produce products 100x better then the MOE line!!!


----------



## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

Yuk! What if you don't LIKE the FB inserts?

What will this do to the people who get lots of business by offering free inserts?

(not that I use FB's, really)


----------



## mmacdo10 (Jan 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe*
What will this do to the people who get lots of business by offering free inserts?

It will allow hard working WAHMs to actually make a profit on diaper sales instead of working for pennies.


----------



## diaperdutymomma (Aug 3, 2006)

My son loves his FBs.







: I would pay any amount. Let's just say you get what you pay for. FBs are high quality. I've tried them all and have been most pleased with FBs.

Do you all CD to save money? If so, most pockets might be cost prohibitive. I CD because FBs are cute, fun, stylish and good for the world. Plus my son really loves struting around in them.

Let's talk about gas prices - those people are making a bundle off fools like us. FBs are worth every penny and they're still a bargain.


----------



## mmacdo10 (Jan 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *girl138*
anyway, stores will have to advertise them as paired and with the paired price - but if you wanted to buy one without an insert all you would have to do is email whoever you buy them from and ask. i can't imagine anyone saying no.


Umm... I'll say no.


----------



## diaperdutymomma (Aug 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ibusymomto5*
Can I ask some of you FB users.. Are the inserts that come with them not good? Just wondering.

The inserts are fine. They work better and better every time you use them. We've been using for 6 months and the only leaks were in the first week and then with major BMs. otherwise, they work nicely. Also, someone said they hold stink. That is not true. I guess it depends on the baby but no stink problem here. Some staining but who cares about that.


----------



## AllyRae (Dec 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *girl138*
but if you wanted to buy one without an insert all you would have to do is email whoever you buy them from and ask. i can't imagine anyone saying no.

Well, those of us who don't want to lose our retailer's status with MOE will say no.


----------



## Smullarkey (Mar 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *girl138*

anyway, stores will have to advertise them as paired and with the paired price - but if you wanted to buy one without an insert all you would have to do is email whoever you buy them from and ask. i can't imagine anyone saying no.

Any retailer who did that would have their retailer status revoked- not to mention it would be a backhanded way to undercut your fellow wahms









I understand that the sticker shock is hard to swallow- especially at first. But just a year ago (maybe a little more), FB were sold for 14.95, with no insert. You had to get an insert somehow- prefold, hemp, microterry, whatever. Then a few stores started offering free inserts to get a competitive advantage. All of a sudden, if you didn't offer a free insert, you could not sell a FB to save your life. I sold about a dozen a *month* at that point because the big stores were giving away free inserts and selling dozens a day. Eventually, most of us realized if we were to compete -at all- we had to jump on the bandwagon. And then started the FB arms race- first free inserts, then free shipping, then free wipes with a 12 pack, etc., etc., etc. I have lost count of the retailers I've seen close their doors in the last year.







Many realized that working 40+hours a week for single digit margins was not worth the time taken from their families.


----------



## roseselene (Aug 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *girl138*

anyway, stores will have to advertise them as paired and with the paired price - but if you wanted to buy one without an insert all you would have to do is email whoever you buy them from and ask. i can't imagine anyone saying no.

I will also say no. Way to undercut your fellow WAHM retailers.

I realize that this *seems* like a big increase but it is really not. It *seems* like a big increase because of the whole free insert bandwagon. If you take away the retailers giving away free inserts and remember back to when you had to pay for the inserts, they were about $3. So, basically, this is not a price increase at all, it is just doing away with the free insert thing.
Please try to remember that the inserts were not free -- just free to the customer. The WAHM running the business paid for them. So, if you think of it that way, the price really technically hasn't gone up, we just need to pay for inserts again.
Amy


----------



## mamanurse (Jan 22, 2006)

:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *diaperdutymomma*
Do you all CD to save money? If so, I'm sure you couldn't afford most pockets. I CD because FBs are cute, fun, stylish and good for the world. Plus my son really loves struting around in them.

I cd to save money and for evironmental reasons. It's pretty rude to assume that people who cd in order to spend less on diapering can't afford pockets.







I have four pocket dipes (2 fb & 2 hh) that I stuff with hemp/cotton inserts that are way higher quality than the fb inserts. The cuteness factor is a bonus, but nothing worth spending a ton of money on.


----------



## AllisonK (Feb 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *roseselene*
Please try to remember that the inserts were not free -- just free to the customer. The WAHM running the business paid for them. So, if you think of it that way, the price really technically hasn't gone up, we just need to pay for inserts again.
Amy

I had never thought of it that way. I feel bad because I looked for free inserts when I purchased my Happy Heiny's.


----------



## clovergirl (Dec 1, 2001)

wow.
i'm not a FB user but i work in a (brick&mortar) store that sells them... we never offered free inserts and still sell *lots* of FB. we sell a lot of hemp inserts too... this sucks for us because now people won't be as inclined to buy seperate inserts. and what about all the people who just don't like microterry? i guess they are S.O.O.L, paying for something they will never use...







:
i understand the "why" behind it... but why not just say that as a retailer you can either sell them alone for $14.95 *or* as a set w/MOE's inserts for $17.95? it would essentially do the same thing, eliminating the "free insert" angle/advantage while still being fair to people who don't want or need micro inserts...


----------



## girl138 (Sep 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *roseselene*
I will also say no. Way to undercut your fellow WAHM retailers.

I realize that this *seems* like a big increase but it is really not. It *seems* like a big increase because of the whole free insert bandwagon. If you take away the retailers giving away free inserts and remember back to when you had to pay for the inserts, they were about $3. So, basically, this is not a price increase at all, it is just doing away with the free insert thing.
Please try to remember that the inserts were not free -- just free to the customer. The WAHM running the business paid for them. So, if you think of it that way, the price really technically hasn't gone up, we just need to pay for inserts again.
Amy

i don't have anyone that wouldn't want the inserts - in fact all of my customers order extras. and i didn't mean it like that at all. eek.

i meant that if someone was dealing with a client for a long time and knew that they didn't use inserts, that they would probably make an exception for them. (like the first woman who posted about her retailer knowing that she always used prefolds and sending her an email). perhaps i was wrong, and i am sorry.

i re-read that and it came out all wrong.







:

the situation wouldn't apply to me.. i was just making an ass out of myself by assuming.


----------



## mamanurse (Jan 22, 2006)

I've only bought my hh new, but the store I bought the returned fb in did not include inserts for free.


----------



## snugglebutter (Mar 19, 2003)

Quote:

I realize that this *seems* like a big increase but it is really not. It *seems* like a big increase because of the whole free insert bandwagon. If you take away the retailers giving away free inserts and remember back to when you had to pay for the inserts, they were about $3. So, basically, this is not a price increase at all, it is just doing away with the free insert thing.
Please try to remember that the inserts were not free -- just free to the customer. The WAHM running the business paid for them. So, if you think of it that way, the price really technically hasn't gone up, we just need to pay for inserts again.
For my dd, prefolds work much better than any other inserts. It would be wasteful for us to pay for inserts that we won't use when I already have 2 dozen prefolds.


----------



## roseselene (Aug 3, 2003)

I totally agree with you there. However, several companies bundle their products with inserts -- wonderoos and bumgenius come to mind. So, it isn't like Mother of Eden is doing something completely unheard of - ya know? If certain pocket diapers have been coming bundled with an insert for some time now, it is just a big change, but not that crazy of a conept.
Amy


----------



## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

I want wahm's to make money too, but just because I'm gasping at the $3 increase (since most offered free inserts) doesn't mean I want them to work for pennies. That's quite an increase to the consumer when you need, what, 12-18 of them per diapered child, per size.

Comparable one-size pockets cost that (the ones I got all came with inserts), so it doesn't seem like the best bargain. If I had to buy more I'd probably try HH with free inserts, because if they're essentially going up $3 to include the insert, then the 14.95 part seems too pricey.

I actually (foolishly) ordered my first batch without inserts because I just ordered from a place I saw advertised here, and I got a big batch of fb's that had kind of crummy fleece. I didn't realize til I ordered more later and saw how fluffy it was. So paying extra to support a smaller store didn't exactly make me feel warm and fuzzy.


----------



## mknight (Jun 19, 2006)

I think that bumgenius and wonderoos are worth paying for the diaper/insert package because they're a one size diaper. What about those people that already have a certain size of fuzzi bunz and inserts that they use with them, so when they go up to the next size they would have to buy the package deal with a bunch of inserts they don't need or want!







:


----------



## ebethmom (Jan 29, 2002)

For both of my kids, prefolds have worked better than FB inserts. I'm glad that I already have all the FB's we'll need. I definitely would *not* pay for inserts that we wouldn't use.


----------



## CookieMonsterMommy (Oct 15, 2002)

subbing...because while my only son is 7 years old and I used disposables, I am drawn to this thread.....weird....


----------



## ~Megan~ (Nov 7, 2002)

A lot of other diapers come in sets so I can see why they might be doing that. I use a variety of inserts but have no problem using theirs.

FB are still my favorite by far. Every other pocket I've tried has wicked or leaked. I'm not a big one size fan as my babies are small but grow big fast (dd was 6-13 at birth and over 27lbs at a year) so they don't fit at birth or when they are older, they tend to be an extended medium size for my kids.


----------



## PinkPixie (Apr 28, 2005)

I think that sucks!
If you already have medium FB's with inserts, and your baby outgrows them, you are now forced to buy the Large diapers AND inserts, even though you already own the inserts!!
Wasted money.

I guess the moral of the story is, buy before Sept. 1st!


----------



## mom2olivia (Apr 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PinkPixie*
I think that sucks!
If you already have medium FB's with inserts, and your baby outgrows them, you are now forced to buy the Large diapers AND inserts, even though you already own the inserts!!
Wasted money.

I guess the moral of the story is, buy before Sept. 1st!

I did just that! I ordered 2 yesterday and the mama is going out of business, so I got them for 12.95







There were only a handful left and I'm guessing they'll all be gone soon! I've never used FB, but after hearing so many good things I felt the need to try them. I too don't care for microterry (though I do w/ my bumgenius), it would be nice if for that price you had a choice of hemp or microterry. I don't think I'll be ordering any for the "new package deal" though.


----------



## Trishy (Oct 15, 2002)

Just for clarification, the WAHM has to sell the MOE insert with the FB? She can't sell the FB with her own hemp insert or a prefold? If this is the case, that really stinks. I completely understand the reasoning behind it but I think that the WAHMs should be able to give options of which inserts they can get with the diaper.


----------



## mknight (Jun 19, 2006)

Yep, they can only sell them with the MOE insert


----------



## VikingKvinna (Dec 31, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamanurse*







:

I cd to save money and for evironmental reasons. It's pretty rude to assume that people who cd in order to spend less on diapering can't afford pockets.







I have four pocket dipes (2 fb & 2 hh) that I stuff with hemp/cotton inserts that are way higher quality than the fb inserts. The cuteness factor is a bonus, but nothing worth spending a ton of money on.

Glad I'm not the only one who was offended by that comment. I CD to save money, for environmental reasons, for health reasons, and for the convenience -- it's nice to have diapers always handy, and not have to run out to the store for the every few days. I also buy a lot (OK, most!) of my diapers used, so I can afford pockets that way. Even if I bought them new, they'd still save money over sposies, so... yes, they are "cute, fun and stylish" but I'm not that shallow.

I'm sure it was a difficult decision for the folks at FB to make them only available as a set with the inserts. But I think those who don't want the inserts still have plenty of options: buy another product, buy second-hand, buy the sets and donate/sell the inserts. I, for one, would gladly take extra inserts off anyone's hands.


----------



## NoMariposa (Apr 14, 2005)

You know, I have MOE inserts and I haven't had any problems with them. I've always washed them in vinegar soak, NFB diaper wash, vinegar in the rinse and dried in the dryer - no stink, good absorbance for day time.

I use happy heiny hemp stuffin' for night with lots of stuffins.

I think $18 for a diaper is fair these days. 3 or 4 yrs ago I paid nearly $20 for a fitted that the elastic wore out in 6 months!!! They were the craze of the time too.

I have enough FB that I don't even need to buy more, I do however need to repair them after 4 yrs of use (elastic is gone in a few). They have held up well for me.


----------



## Mama Poot (Jun 12, 2006)

Well I'm bummed- pardon the pun. We just got FB and love them, and I love the WAHM inserts that came with them







We also use BumGenius! but I like the FB better- and they were more affordable too.


----------



## leximom (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *roseselene*
Please try to remember that the inserts were not free -- just free to the customer. The WAHM running the business paid for them.

That does put it in perspective


----------



## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:

Do you all CD to save money? If so, I'm sure you couldn't afford most pockets.
ROFLMAO - have you seen how much disposables cost?

12 FBs @$14.95 each = $180

That's 17 weeks worth of disposables (@25 cents each and six a day), and then you're in the black. My daughter has been in size medium of all brands for 36 weeks now, and I see no sign of her growing out of them.

Quote:

However, several companies bundle their products with inserts -- wonderoos and bumgenius come to mind. So, it isn't like Mother of Eden is doing something completely unheard of - ya know? If certain pocket diapers have been coming bundled with an insert for some time now, it is just a big change, but not that crazy of a conept.
I don't really agree with the concept at all, for ANY pocket.

For example, I bought some CB's one size inserts when I bought some pockets recently (FWIW, I actually sought out someoone who didn't include inserts, but offered free shipping for part of my order, because the other part was coming with inserts). Now when we size up on pockets I won't be wanting MORE inserts, I have plenty. I would definitely seek out a situation where I didn't have to pay an extra $x to get a package. I also might be buying five pockets, but wanting five different types of inserts to try out, but if they come with inserts already I can't justify spending extra to play with when I'm already getting inserts.

Quote:

It will allow hard working WAHMs to actually make a profit on diaper sales instead of working for pennies.

But isn't that a business decision? I'll get x number of sales if I offer free inserts/free shipping etc, and it will cost me $x, but if I don't, I'll make y sales and it will cost $y. Surely you would choose the combination of volume and incentive that made you the largest profit? I thought that was the reasoning behind varying free shipping offers - incentive to shop there, combined with incentive to spend a minimum amount. I'd envinsioned the busness owners sitting down and doing calculations as to how much they needed to spend on incentives to maximise their profit.


----------



## justplainbecky (Jul 20, 2006)

I use Fuzzi Bunz and the MOE inserts and I love them. I like the micro-terry. I have some hemp inserts that I don't care much for, they don't absorb fast enough, but the micro-terry ones work great. I've been using them for a long time and they don't stink at all, nor do they stain, and they are great pee-holders.

I guess I'm happy with them, but I have all the FB I need for right now. I can see how some would have a problem with it, but I really don't.


----------



## Leiahs (Jul 29, 2005)

Count me as another who is bummed. I was planning on buying the next size up of FB *without* inserts, as I already have a ton that go with my mediums. It kinda makes me sad to think that if I don't buy soon, I'll have a bunch of extra inserts for no reason. I either have to figure out something to do with them, or throw the old ones away. I sure would like the option of getting no inserts at all.

Right now I'm trying to decide whether to buy up fast or not. Sigh.


----------



## ibusymomto5 (Jan 29, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mknight*
I think that bumgenius and wonderoos are worth paying for the diaper/insert package because they're a one size diaper. What about those people that already have a certain size of fuzzi bunz and inserts that they use with them, so when they go up to the next size they would have to buy the package deal with a bunch of inserts they don't need or want!







:


I've been thinking this same thing. I think MOE might lose some customers over this, especially ones who are at that needing to size up stage and don't want or need a bunch more inserts or who dislike microfiber. The cheaper price and flexibility for people to choose their own inserts was probably a competitive edge that swayed at least some people to go with or stay with FB. Now, I bet more people will be looking at the other diaper options more closely. I know I would if I was looking at getting a whole stash of pockets.

And, yes, onesize pockets are very different, imo, because you're not having to turn around and size up in the pocket every few months.


----------



## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

But isn't that a business decision? I'll get x number of sales if I offer free inserts/free shipping etc, and it will cost me $x, but if I don't, I'll make y sales and it will cost $y. Surely you would choose the combination of volume and incentive that made you the largest profit? I thought that was the reasoning behind varying free shipping offers - incentive to shop there, combined with incentive to spend a minimum amount. I'd envinsioned the busness owners sitting down and doing calculations as to how much they needed to spend on incentives to maximise their profit.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what I was thinking, but you said it better. It's good to be reminded that these business owners are moms who are working hard. But I disliked the implication I saw in the working-for-pennies statement, that if we shudder at the $3 increase (per dipe, per size, and maybe because we are also working hard and coutning pennies), that we somehow aren't sensitive to wahm's financial needs and hard work. I'm sure there's something to the previous post about pressure to do free inserts, and then free shipping (although for most I've only seen free shipping with large purchases). But I know people get my repeat business -and I tend to spend even more- when i get more for my money. Furthermore, this was a MOE decision as far as I can see. I'd be slightly more understanding if I knew the incentive behind that decision was indeed to benefit wahms selling fbs, and not just more profits- not that profits are bad, but increase the price and you yeah, you might lose some customers.

I think I would actually be more understanding if it were just a mild increase in the price of the diaper. I dislike the mandatory insert and charge for it because it just doesn't seem user friendly or logical, as you don't always need new inserts or want one kind of insert.


----------



## Shaunam (Oct 8, 2004)

It seems to me like FB is doing this to even the playing field between retailers (those who can offer free inserts and those who cannot). Hardly selfish if you ask me. I think it would work better if they gave retailers the option of selling them with or without moe inserts, but that is up to them. I mean, if you go to cottonbabies and order a bumgenius and specify that you don't want the insert, do they knock $3 off each diaper? Not that I know of.

With FB, you are paying for not only the supplies, but the time and labor of the people who make them + the great craftmanship and the unique design. If you loooove FB, because they are *that* much better than the other diapers you've tried, then maybe you should consider WHY they are better. I know from experience that it is NOT cheap to make a pocket diaper with that many snaps. Aplix diapers are much, much cheaper. Maybe we should all complain that happy heinys has been ripping us off all this time because they were charging just as much as FB when their materials cost way less.







:

When it comes down to it, these people making and selling pockets are NOT making a fortune off of them. If you don't like the price, don't buy them. If you need to buy them because they are the only diapers that work for you, just sell the inserts you don't like on ebay and use what you wish. There are tons of people that would be willing to buy new inserts for <$3 apiece. Don't microterry inserts run more than that when you buy them seperately?


----------



## aisraeltax (Jul 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ibusymomto5*
Now, I bet more people will be looking at the other diaper options more closely. I know I would if I was looking at getting a whole stash of pockets.

thats me...i have just heard too many negative things about FB in the last year. i don't know exactly what it is, but i am definitely not buying any new FB in the future. i just don't see any of this going on with any other diaper maker. it just doesnt sit well with me for some reason.


----------



## mamimapster (Oct 27, 2004)

: ICK, I got rid of any of the MOE microterry inserts that I had because they were'nt absorbent enough for us, and they got stinky. I use and Love a hemp layered with a cotton terry soaker. Well, I don't use because Dd is potty trained now, but I had some colors of FB that I really wanted to buy for my stash and no way I can afford them right now.







I will sooo not pay any money for MOE inserts!


----------



## hillymum (May 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe*
ROFLMAO - have you seen how much disposables cost?

12 FBs @$14.95 each = $180

That's 17 weeks worth of disposables (@25 cents each and six a day), and then you're in the black. My daughter has been in size medium of all brands for 36 weeks now, and I see no sign of her growing out of them.


And then you can sell those 12 FB's for what? $140?????? I don't mind the increase in the initial output to build up a stash, especially when I know I can resell!


----------



## ambersky (Feb 12, 2006)

I don't have any FB's but thought of getting some when we have our next baby (it'll be a bit), we didn't start cd'ing until our son was already almost 2 yrs old. I can understand the reason they might be doing it for but think it kinda sucks as well. If you already have a ton of inserts you used with size small or medium and need to size up to medium or large why do you need all these new inserts that you have to pay for with your new dipes?


----------



## warneral (Feb 28, 2003)

I find it disheartening that mother of eden would make this decision to appease *some* retailers because this decision affects all of their consumers. I think it is a poor business move. At least 50% of the consumers do not like or use the microterry inserts and will be forced to buy them or choose a different diaper.

If the reason is to appease retailers and "even the playing field", why not put it in the wholesale contract the MSRP *and* free inserts can not be included with each pocket diaper.

Well they can do what they want but hopefully consumers won't be bullied into buying their inserts if they don't want them.


----------



## AllyRae (Dec 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *warneral*
I find it disheartening that mother of eden would make this decision to appease *some* retailers because this decision affects all of their consumers. I think it is a poor business move. At least 50% of the consumers do not like or use the microterry inserts and will be forced to buy them or choose a different diaper.

I'm curious as to where you got your statistics... I *am* a retailer and 99.9% of my customers who buy fuzzi bunz buy the microterry inserts (and quite a few have bought more of the microterry that I was giving for free). Only a very tiny percentage buy the hemp inserts--I have 2 or 3 types of hemp inserts, and they've just sat on my shelves, whereas the microterry has flown...

Just goes to show you that there are a whole lot more CDers out there than just who reply to this thread, and many of them are quite happy with the inserts....


----------



## mamanurse (Jan 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *warneral*
I find it disheartening that mother of eden would make this decision to appease *some* retailers because this decision affects all of their consumers. I think it is a poor business move. At least 50% of the consumers do not like or use the microterry inserts and will be forced to buy them or choose a different diaper.

If the reason is to appease retailers and "even the playing field", why not put it in the wholesale contract the MSRP *and* free inserts can not be included with each pocket diaper.

Well they can do what they want but hopefully consumers won't be bullied into buying their inserts if they don't want them.

I spoke with the owner of a retail store that sells fb and she said a lot of her customers don't buy the microterry inserts with their fb. She thinks MOE is doing this because they are losing money from people buying other pocket inserts. Maybe MOE should make an alternative insert as an option if they're going to require the inserts be sold with the fb.

I HATE the microterry inserts and will never buy another fb again. They've fallen apart after a few short washes and retain stink like none of my other dipes. There are plenty of WAHM made pockets that are quality that don't come with their crappy inserts.


----------



## Trishy (Oct 15, 2002)

You know the more I think about this the more angry I get. While I understand that this move was made partially to help retailers that were honestly losing sales over other retailers who were willing to sell FBs at the lowest price allowed and give free inserts, this decision is incredibly unfair to mainly the customers and also retailers. The bottom line is that forcing customers to purchase a MOE insert with every pocket sold increases MOE's profits. There are a few issues I see here.

1. There are quite a few people who don't like microterry or just have a strong preference for using another type of insert. Why shouldn't these customers be allowed a choice in which insert that they buy for their pockets? Which brings me to my next point.....

2. A lot of moms already have inserts that can be used in multiple sizes of Fuzzi Bunz. Why should they have to get more inserts when they already have what they need? Why should they have to use more resources to get a different size in diapers? Isn't part of the draw in cloth diapering about using less resources?

A wonderful incentive would be for MOE to allow pocket only sales to customers who repeat business to a WAHM from which they have already purchased pockets and inserts. This would be beneficial to the WAHM as she receives a repeat customer and the customer who is not forced to purchase more inserts that she may not desire.

3. What about the WAHMs who only sell FB pockets and have a lot of hemp or other inserts instock? The WAHM is not permitted to offer these inserts as the insert that is sold with the diaper. The customer would have to pay the $3 for the MOE microterry insert she does not want, along with the price of the insert she does want. Which brings me to my next point.....

4. By making this mandatory for retailers MOE is taking a considerable percentage of sales away from other insert makers. A few WAHMs make or have thier own brand of inserts produced. There is also Joey Bunz and other insert manufacturers. This is a very shrewd business move that will take business away from these other companies and allow MOE to profit more and more. They already have control over who can make pockets, charge a consdierable license fee which is almost completely profit and do not allow anyone else to make aplix pockets except Happy Hineys.

A long time ago I decided that I would no longer buy Fuzzi Bunz because of business issues that were occuring at the time. Namely, frequent and unannounced changes to the design of the product. Later, I began working for a WAHM who carried FBs. I saw that the product was consistent and had a good working relationship with the people who had been working there. I decided that I would use them again. I must say that I am very pleased that I have enough Fuzzi Bunz to last my ds through potty learning because I will not buy Fuzzi Bunz again and will encourage others to do the same. I am disappointed that a small mother run company has become a big business where more concern is given to profit than the full needs of the customer and hard working WAHMs that carry the product. I no longer work for my WAHM but if I did I would strongly encourage her to drop the product as well.


----------



## chellemarie (Jan 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snugglebutter*
For my dd, prefolds work much better than any other inserts. It would be wasteful for us to pay for inserts that we won't use when I already have 2 dozen prefolds.

I only used FB's at night and we typically stuffed them with prefolds or with Gerber birdeye flats. I had a couple FB inserts and didn't like them as much overnight as I did the flats or prefolds. Bundling their inserts and pockets like this would cause them to lose me as a customer.

Also, it is wasteful and out of keeping with Natural Family Living principles.


----------



## FillingMyQuiver (Jul 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Trishy*
You know the more I think about this the more angry I get. While I understand that this move was made partially to help retailers that were honestly losing sales over other retailers who were willing to sell FBs at the lowest price allowed and give free inserts, this decision is incredibly unfair to mainly the customers and also retailers. The bottom line is that forcing customers to purchase a MOE insert with every pocket sold increases MOE's profits. There are a few issues I see here.

1. There are quite a few people who don't like microterry or just have a strong preference for using another type of insert. Why shouldn't these customers be allowed a choice in which insert that they buy for their pockets? Which brings me to my next point.....

2. A lot of moms already have inserts that can be used in multiple sizes of Fuzzi Bunz. Why should they have to get more inserts when they already have what they need? Why should they have to use more resources to get a different size in diapers? Isn't part of the draw in cloth diapering about using less resources?

A wonderful incentive would be for MOE to allow pocket only sales to customers who repeat business to a WAHM from which they have already purchased pockets and inserts. This would be beneficial to the WAHM as she receives a repeat customer and the customer who is not forced to purchase more inserts that she may not desire.

3. What about the WAHMs who only sell FB pockets and have a lot of hemp or other inserts instock? The WAHM is not permitted to offer these inserts as the insert that is sold with the diaper. The customer would have to pay the $3 for the MOE microterry insert she does not want, along with the price of the insert she does want. Which brings me to my next point.....

4. By making this mandatory for retailers MOE is taking a considerable percentage of sales away from other insert makers. A few WAHMs make or have thier own brand of inserts produced. There is also Joey Bunz and other insert manufacturers. This is a very shrewd business move that will take business away from these other companies and allow MOE to profit more and more. They already have control over who can make pockets, charge a consdierable license fee which is almost completely profit and do not allow anyone else to make aplix pockets except Happy Hineys.

A long time ago I decided that I would no longer buy Fuzzi Bunz because of business issues that were occuring at the time. Namely, frequent and unannounced changes to the design of the product. Later, I began working for a WAHM who carried FBs. I saw that the product was consistent and had a good working relationship with the people who had been working there. I decided that I would use them again. I must say that I am very pleased that I have enough Fuzzi Bunz to last my ds through potty learning because I will not buy Fuzzi Bunz again and will encourage others to do the same. I am disappointed that a small mother run company has become a big business where more concern is given to profit than the full needs of the customer and hard working WAHMs that carry the product. I no longer work for my WAHM but if I did I would strongly encourage her to drop the product as well.









: Well said, Trish.


----------



## Sophiasmomma (Jun 16, 2004)

Im NOT a fan of micro inserts. Infact I always use infant pfs in my pockets and it has been our 100% failproof insert. Im bummed since I wanted to buy new FBs for my new baby coming but now I will just buy used without inserts if I can find them







Im dissapointed about it since FBs seemed like a fair price and I loved that I didnt have to have the insert when I buy.


----------



## mother culture (Oct 19, 2004)

I hope the sewing line workers are getting a pay increase because they are making a generous profit from selling very little material. AGH!


----------



## mamanurse (Jan 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Trishy*
You know the more I think about this the more angry I get. While I understand that this move was made partially to help retailers that were honestly losing sales over other retailers who were willing to sell FBs at the lowest price allowed and give free inserts, this decision is incredibly unfair to mainly the customers and also retailers. The bottom line is that forcing customers to purchase a MOE insert with every pocket sold increases MOE's profits. There are a few issues I see here.

1. There are quite a few people who don't like microterry or just have a strong preference for using another type of insert. Why shouldn't these customers be allowed a choice in which insert that they buy for their pockets? Which brings me to my next point.....

2. A lot of moms already have inserts that can be used in multiple sizes of Fuzzi Bunz. Why should they have to get more inserts when they already have what they need? Why should they have to use more resources to get a different size in diapers? Isn't part of the draw in cloth diapering about using less resources?

A wonderful incentive would be for MOE to allow pocket only sales to customers who repeat business to a WAHM from which they have already purchased pockets and inserts. This would be beneficial to the WAHM as she receives a repeat customer and the customer who is not forced to purchase more inserts that she may not desire.

3. What about the WAHMs who only sell FB pockets and have a lot of hemp or other inserts instock? The WAHM is not permitted to offer these inserts as the insert that is sold with the diaper. The customer would have to pay the $3 for the MOE microterry insert she does not want, along with the price of the insert she does want. Which brings me to my next point.....

4. By making this mandatory for retailers MOE is taking a considerable percentage of sales away from other insert makers. A few WAHMs make or have thier own brand of inserts produced. There is also Joey Bunz and other insert manufacturers. This is a very shrewd business move that will take business away from these other companies and allow MOE to profit more and more. They already have control over who can make pockets, charge a consdierable license fee which is almost completely profit and do not allow anyone else to make aplix pockets except Happy Hineys.

A long time ago I decided that I would no longer buy Fuzzi Bunz because of business issues that were occuring at the time. Namely, frequent and unannounced changes to the design of the product. Later, I began working for a WAHM who carried FBs. I saw that the product was consistent and had a good working relationship with the people who had been working there. I decided that I would use them again. I must say that I am very pleased that I have enough Fuzzi Bunz to last my ds through potty learning because I will not buy Fuzzi Bunz again and will encourage others to do the same. I am disappointed that a small mother run company has become a big business where more concern is given to profit than the full needs of the customer and hard working WAHMs that carry the product. I no longer work for my WAHM but if I did I would strongly encourage her to drop the product as well.


----------



## PatchyMama (Dec 6, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Trishy*
4. By making this mandatory for retailers MOE is taking a considerable percentage of sales away from other insert makers. A few WAHMs make or have thier own brand of inserts produced. There is also Joey Bunz and other insert manufacturers. This is a very shrewd business move that will take business away from these other companies and allow MOE to profit more and more. They already have control over who can make pockets, charge a consdierable license fee which is almost completely profit and do not allow anyone else to make aplix pockets except Happy Hineys.

I don't have an opinion either way about the inserts, but I just read something on diaper swappers that applied to this. The license fee for pocket diapers has been dropped considerably... the post I read said it was $50/yr for level 1 and 500/yr for level 2 (level 2 is for those WAHMs who make more than $10,000 a month in pocket diaper sales). Second that the no aplix rule only applies to level 2. WAHMs in level one are allowed to have a license and make aplix pockets.


----------



## aisraeltax (Jul 2, 2005)

im not as knowledgable as you guys, but can you please clear something up for me:
1. is MOE and FB the same co? if not, what is their r/s? (business wise







)

2. i thought this was a FB requirement, not something that retailers (such as Mother of Eden) can chose NOT to do?

and i agree with the comment that is what FB was trying to avoid was competitors giving away free inserts, they could merely put that in the licensing agreement. it woudl be a very simple contractual provision and NOT cause customers to accept an insert they don't like.

i dont care about the insert but for some reason i don't like stuffing the pockets after the wash...,i dont like the way it feels. i much prefer the hemp and UTN inserts i have.


----------



## AllyRae (Dec 10, 2003)

Mother of Eden is the company that makes fuzzi bunz--they aren't retailers.


----------



## warneral (Feb 28, 2003)

Well my stastics are far from scientific I just threw that number out there









HOWEVER I would be surprised if it were less as I feel it is a generous number.

From spending 4 years on the boards it seems that most prefer hemp or cotton over microterry.

Hopefully, for the sake of MOE, their decision to put themselves and their retailers ahead of the CONSUMER, it won't bite them in the butt.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AllyRae*
I'm curious as to where you got your statistics... I *am* a retailer and 99.9% of my customers who buy fuzzi bunz buy the microterry inserts (and quite a few have bought more of the microterry that I was giving for free). Only a very tiny percentage buy the hemp inserts--I have 2 or 3 types of hemp inserts, and they've just sat on my shelves, whereas the microterry has flown...

Just goes to show you that there are a whole lot more CDers out there than just who reply to this thread, and many of them are quite happy with the inserts....


----------



## warneral (Feb 28, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mmacdo10*
It will allow hard working WAHMs to actually make a profit on diaper sales instead of working for pennies.

You are talking about the retailers I assume.

But what about WAHM's who sew inserts and *don't* give them away for free (not that I have a problem with the ones who do)?


----------



## mamamoo (Apr 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Smullarkey*
Any retailer who did that would have their retailer status revoked- not to mention it would be a backhanded way to undercut your fellow wahms









I understand that the sticker shock is hard to swallow- especially at first. But just a year ago (maybe a little more), FB were sold for 14.95, with no insert. You had to get an insert somehow- prefold, hemp, microterry, whatever. Then a few stores started offering free inserts to get a competitive advantage. All of a sudden, if you didn't offer a free insert, you could not sell a FB to save your life. I sold about a dozen a *month* at that point because the big stores were giving away free inserts and selling dozens a day. Eventually, most of us realized if we were to compete -at all- we had to jump on the bandwagon. And then started the FB arms race- first free inserts, then free shipping, then free wipes with a 12 pack, etc., etc., etc. I have lost count of the retailers I've seen close their doors in the last year.







Many realized that working 40+hours a week for single digit margins was not worth the time taken from their families.

I think it is more about the lack of choices that the price thing...not that I use fb, but if I did I would be mad because if I was buying inserts I would want organic or hemp not Micro...


----------



## aisraeltax (Jul 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AllyRae*
Mother of Eden is the company that makes fuzzi bunz--they aren't retailers.









thanks for the clarification! so who makes the microterry inserts? is that MOE also?

this just really rubs me the wrong way.

where can we find other diapers that are not FB? feel free to spam me with WAHMs, etc. i THOUGHT i was over when i found FB (meaning that i dont really look for other diapers..just go with FB) but right now im going to come out of my shell and look to branching off to other stuff b/c well..i don't like not having a choice and i don't like the taste i get in my mouth. no, thats not scientific, but its what drives the limited amount of consumerism i engage in!


----------



## Trishy (Oct 15, 2002)

Yes, MOE makes the microterry inserts that must be sold with the diapers.

There are a lot of other pocket diaper makers. I don't have personal experience with any other pockets but Happy Hineys and Swaddlebees. I have been pleased with both products but find the sizing on the Swaddlebees runs a bit small.


----------



## Lilangels (Jul 19, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PatchyMama*
I don't have an opinion either way about the inserts, but I just read something on diaper swappers that applied to this. The license fee for pocket diapers has been dropped considerably... the post I read said it was $50/yr for level 1 and 500/yr for level 2 (level 2 is for those WAHMs who make more than $10,000 a month in pocket diaper sales). Second that the no aplix rule only applies to level 2. WAHMs in level one are allowed to have a license and make aplix pockets.

Could someone show me a link saying this? The way I understood it is that it is ALOT more than that and I was only aware of 1 level. You will see less and less pocket makers if what I remember is true.........


----------



## girl138 (Sep 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lilangels*
Could someone show me a link saying this? The way I understood it is that it is ALOT more than that and I was only aware of 1 level. You will see less and less pocket makers if what I remember is true.........

http://www.diaperswappers.com/forum/...per%2C+license

hth!


----------



## ibusymomto5 (Jan 29, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamamoo*
I think it is more about the lack of choices that the price thing...not that I use fb, but if I did I would be mad because if I was buying inserts I would want organic or hemp not Micro...


I think the lack of choice is two fold. One is about not being able to choose which type of insert in the first place, and the other is not having a choice of buying just the pocket when you go to size up. It seems to me that plenty of people are angry at both of these things, and I do believe MOE will see a drop in sales over this. Even if you like the FB microfiber inserts, the simple fact is that if you already have a whole stash of them, why would you want or need a whole 2-3 dozen more when you go to size up. I've read over and over of people who have decided to not go with FB when it's time to buy the next size. Those people seem to be looking into other options, and I can't say that I blame them.

The way I see it, there are steps MOE could take to show that they had their customers' interests at heart. One, they could give options of different types of inserts. Two, they could give returning customers the option of buying only the pocket when they go to size up.


----------



## mamamoo (Apr 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ibusymomto5*
I think the lack of choice is two fold. One is about not being able to choose which type of insert in the first place, and the other is not having a choice of buying just the pocket when you go to size up. It seems to me that plenty of people are angry at both of these things, and I do believe MOE will see a drop in sales over this. Even if you like the FB microfiber inserts, the simple fact is that if you already have a whole stash of them, why would you want or need a whole 2-3 dozen more when you go to size up. I've read over and over of people who have decided to not go with FB when it's time to buy the next size. Those people seem to be looking into other options, and I can't say that I blame them.

The way I see it, there are steps MOE could take to show that they had their customers' interests at heart. One, they could give options of different types of inserts. Two, they could give returning customers the option of buying only the pocket when they go to size up.









true...I guess people could sell the inserts with their used dipes when they are ready to size up...just seems like a bad business move.


----------



## ibusymomto5 (Jan 29, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamamoo*







true...I guess people could sell the inserts with their used dipes when they are ready to size up...just seems like a bad business move.

I agree that it seems like a bad business move.


----------



## nighten (Oct 18, 2005)

Here's what MOE has to say on it:

Click Link for Full Article.

Quote:

Mother of Eden Announces MSRP Change
for Its Top-Selling, Patented-Fuzzi Bunz™ Pocket Diapers

NEW IBERIA, La., August 10, 2006 - Mother of Eden, the makers of the Fuzzi Bunz Stay Dry diapering system, today announces that the new manufacturer's suggested retail price (MSRP) of Fuzzi Bunz will be $17.95 as of September 1, 2006.

<snippage>

... *However, just because Fuzzi Bunz come with inserts, many parents find that other inserts will work well too. While Fuzzi Bunz will come as a set, our customers can continue to use what ever "stuffing" works best for them*."
_I cut out the bulk to less than 100 words, per TOS. Sorry mods._

And I bolded the section where they admit that many consumers don't/won't use the inserts we're now being forced to buy.

I wrote MOE and let them know that after our child outgrows her Mediums, we'll be forced to buy different diapers. I'm appalled at MOE's decision to punish consumers by forcing us to pay for inserts when not all of us will use them. (Want to let MOE know how you feel? Write them here.)

Yes, I understand the WAHM's needing more cash. I don't fault anyone for this. But I'm a SAHM and I need to save cash. Period. And I was very happy to find a WAH family business to buy our FB from. And yes, that included free inserts. And yes, that's the retailer's choice. As a SAHM, I have to look for bargains and knowing we're going to end up with twice as many inserts as we need if we continue to expand our FB stash later on, is wasteful and too costly.

I don't plan to resell my FB. I plan to reuse them for later children if possible.

And being forced to buy $3 gourmet drool towels is ridiculous, IMO.


----------



## Elowyn (Nov 3, 2003)

Guess I'll be sticking with Ebay for my FBs. I think what MOE is doing sucks - there are other ways of protecting WAHMs without forcing the consumer to buy something she doesn't need. Yargh.


----------



## mom2olivia (Apr 4, 2006)

The only justification I can see for doing this is that maybe they were getting complaints about the diapers not working when people weren't using terrific inserts.

If this change was motiviated by any other reason I say shame on them. Their little announcement doesn't really justify any reasoning for it other than they haven't had a price increase in years, whoopie do! They are adding an insert to the "package", of course that would result in a price increase. My guess is their sales for their inserts is way down because there are better ones out there and they want a piece of the action.

And like others have mentioned I can understand bumgenious doing it, but the insert grows with the diaper.

Hopefully they'll get enough negative feedback that they'll at least consider offering a hemp alternative to their "package deals".


----------



## nighten (Oct 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom2olivia*
The only justification I can see for doing this is that maybe they were getting complaints about the diapers not working when people weren't using terrific inserts.

If this change was motiviated by any other reason I say shame on them. Their little announcement doesn't really justify any reasoning for it other than they haven't had a price increase in years, whoopie do! They are adding an insert to the "package", of course that would result in a price increase. My guess is their sales for their inserts is way down because there are better ones out there and they want a piece of the action.

And like others have mentioned I can understand bumgenious doing it, but the insert grows with the diaper.

Hopefully they'll get enough negative feedback that they'll at least consider offering a hemp alternative to their "package deals".

The problem with the dipe not working great due to faulty inserts doesn't fly in my book, because it's my understanding the MOE inserts aren't as absorbant as some of the other types commonly used (including other brands of microterry).

I think they're getting greedy and it sucks. I got a reply to my comment I sent them:

_Edited because apparently it's against the TOS to show a private, albeit blatantly generic, curt and IMO, rude email reply. Sorry, mods!_


----------



## aisraeltax (Jul 2, 2005)

do you think someone needs to be brought down a peg or two? I mean, really! i just don't get this. i was going to let it go and be on my merry way, but that comment from customer service? that is just RUDE (as my 8 yo says).

i WAS going to be quiet about it but now i think ill open my big mouth when someone asks for a recommendatino from me for cd's (not that im an expert..far from it)>


----------



## mom2olivia (Apr 4, 2006)

That is a terrible response. I've got to imagine that they are receiving tons of feedback since this announcement and at the very least you would think they would have a "generic" response prepared to address the most common concerns from their customers.

Wow, just terrible!

I just decided right before this announcement to try out FBs as that is one diaper I hadn't tried yet and I did manage to get a couple before they decided to do this package deal. They are decent, but I won't be buying them w/ the inserts. I'm curious to see what will happen to their sales figures after this move. From the sounds of things the majority will be moving away from them. On the plus side the market for used FBs will be HOT


----------



## mamanurse (Jan 22, 2006)

I still had my receipt for some large size fb that I bought two weeks ago. I just went and returned them out of principle. I've decided to buy Swaddlebees instead.

Oh yeah. I also emailed them a constructive, but bitter email. I'm sure I'll get the same generic reply.


----------



## nighten (Oct 18, 2005)

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought their reply (or lack of one, really), was rude.

I've been spouting the praises of FB nonstop since we started using them months ago. If MOE carries through with this, we'll be looking for new dipes. I mean heck, I could've gone with BumGenius or Mommy's Touch from the get-go with the price increase FB is planning, and have purchased far fewer dipes.


----------



## huggerwocky (Jun 21, 2004)

It doesn't matter whether the inserts are good or not. The idea I like about pocket diapers, not that I actually have used any yet, is that they're so customizable. One can use as an insert whatever works best, microterry or hemp or whatever. This is gone if the choice is taken. Why would I get a fuzzi bun for 18 $ if I know microterry won't work? Well, I won't....I'll get a different pocket diaper that either comes without an insert which I then purchase seperately or one where I have a choice.

So yes, I think it will cost customers if that's all you offer.


----------



## *GreenMama* (Jan 5, 2006)

I'm just going to have to buy them used here!!!


----------



## eleven (Aug 14, 2004)

I'm sorry to hear that so many diapering mamas will be negatively affected by this decision.

I knew I would never buy another FB after the whole patent fiasco began, but I was never a big fan to begin with.

It seems pretty clear that all MOE cares about is cash. Whatever. They certainly won't be getting any of mine!


----------



## ajsgirl (Mar 31, 2004)

Quote:

What about those people that already have a certain size of fuzzi bunz and inserts that they use with them, so when they go up to the next size they would have to buy the package deal with a bunch of inserts they don't need or want!
That would be me.

I love my fb's but now I'm going to give another pocket dipe a try because I just don't want a bunch of inserts when I have as many as I'll ever need. It would be wasteful, IMO, to order fb's with more inserts. Either that, or I'm going to order a bunch of the next size up before Sept 1st.


----------

