# I spanked DS :crying



## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

I can't believe it. I am so against spanking.
I feel like a total failure.

DS (3 1/2 yo) has had a terrible habit of hitting for the past few months. I've always talked to him about "gentle touch/hands" and how we use our hands and how we should use words when we are frustrated or angry instead of hitting, etc. etc.

But, over the summer he has become totally out of control. He hits, slaps, bites, kicks, and head-buts. He is large and solid, and it hurts.

I've tried calming him down, while it's happening, or sitting in a different room, or talking to him after it happens, or redirecting him, or suggesting that he cross his arms to keep his hands to himself when he feels like hitting.... It's just been getting worse and worse.

I feel like I can't take him anywhere, bc his fits could happen without warning and other kids could get hurt. He goes up to smaller kids and pushes them down or grabs from them - so then I have to remove him from the scene bc I can't calm him down.

Well, a couple of days ago, he was yelling at me and dh and hitting me. I spanked him twice on his bottom and put him on the bed, and said "I can't believe I just spanked you, bc I don't believe in it, but you are teaching me to hit bc you keep hitting me, and now it is like self-defense, but I never want to spank you, and I don't want you to hit me or anyone else".

Of course, I felt AWFUL about it, and still do. My mom actually encouraged me to do this







: while I was visiting her last week. She said "sometimes nothing else will work, and you just have to spank once or twice" and I told her I thought it was abusive, and if it's considered abuse for a partner to hit another partner, then it is the same for children. But she said that you are not "beating the child, just spanking lightly" or whatever.

It is shameful that I did it, and I hope I never do it again.

I was talking to a friend the other day about it, and she said that she read a book called "The Crazy Makers" (which I have to get from the library now...) in which there was a boy who was out-of-control and labelled ADHD and failing in school, and then they took wheat out of his diet and he transformed into a calm, straight-A student.

I have already eliminated dairy, soy, berries, and corn, and now I am eliminating wheat. He has so many other issues, like chronic eczema and he still wakes every hour or two. I am wondering if his behavior is partly related to the food. After a day or two off wheat so far, he seems to be doing better - except when he was overtired and needed a nap and fell into a screaming fit again (no hitting this time).

I told my dh that I am a total failure as a mom, a wife, and in my career. And it's all coming out in how ds is acting as I think he is mirroring my failures in his behavior. And then I go and spank him


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## RedWine (Sep 26, 2003)

I don't have advice for you, but I wanted to send you hugs.

You are not a failure. You are a good mom who is trying to figure out what is best for your child. You made a mistake. Forgive yourself, apologize to your son, and move on.

We have all been at that place where you do something you swore you'd never do. It's human. Keep trying, just keep trying.

I hope other moms can chime in with more specific advice.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

First off you made a mistake you can go on..
I'd really see if you need to totally remove all glutten from his diet his actions really do sound organic.. I won't "lecture" you anymore than that..
Deanna


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## Attila the Honey (Mar 15, 2003)

You are NOT a failure. You are human, and you are actively trying to do the right thing. Your son is lucky to have you as a mom, and I am sure you will all get to the bottom of this behavior and find a way to address it that works for everyone.









I dont' know what else to say, but I didn't want to read and not post.


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## Vermillion (Mar 12, 2005)

You are NOT a failure! You are human, you made a mistake and you acknowledge that, and now you can move past it and do better. Any mother who can say she is perfect and without mistakes is either a liar, or from another planet!

Good luck with eliminating certain foods. Sounds like you might be on the right track!


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *octobermom*
First off you made a mistake you can go on..
I'd really see if you need to totally remove all glutten from his diet his actions really do sound organic.. I won't "lecture" you anymore than that..
Deanna

please tell me more!


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## J-Max (Sep 25, 2003)

To the OP, I am sorry, we are stuggling with similar anger issues with our 6 year old.

Octobermom - I have heard this, but am struggling with find more information about it, please tell us more!


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

How much sleep does he get? How much do you get?


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

You're human, and you made a mistake. It doesn't make you a bad person or a bad mom. I've made the same mistake myself.


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## Rainbow Brite (Nov 2, 2004)

I haven't read much of the site, but maybe there is something useful for you?

http://www.feingold.org/


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## Balanced Mama (May 31, 2005)

Wow, that's tough.

We are lifetime learners. I am still searching for ways to deal with trying moments with my ds. I haven't spanked, but I have handled things differently than I have wanted to, and then done the same things you are doing right now--reflected on what happened, brainstormed about alternatives, looked at the roots of the problem. I bet that your ds will benefit from seeing you model that.

My thoughts are with you.


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## tboroson (Nov 19, 2002)

I feel like a GD failure every freakin' day.

I don't want to usurp your thread here, but I want to share my feelings of failure so hopefully you won't feel like you're alone in struggling with this.

Talia pushes me hard, but it's not how hard she pushes that gets to me, it's how *fast*. She escalates to temper tantrum so freakin' fast that I can rarely head it off creatively, and she sends my stress levels through the ceiling before I even know what the hell's going on. Seriously, there are times she walks up to me and just starts screaming for something. I can't even figure out what she's screaming for, I can't calm her down to ask her, and short of locking her in the bathroom I can't get away from her to clear my head. If I didn't care, I would just walk away. But my heart is breaking because she's asking *me* for something, she's coming to *me* for her needs and comfort, and I can't help her because I can't figure out what she wants or needs. It frustrates me that if she'd calm down, I could figure out what she wants, or make it clear to her why she can't have what she wants, but we skip right past the calm part of the discussion. Meanwhile, her sister has taken up harmony, and there are all the other daily things pulling on me (the pot about to boil over on the stove, paying attention to the freeway on which I'm driving, I'm trying to keep hold of both of them in a busy parking lot...) and zoom, spinal fluid starts leaking out through my hair follicles. I wake up every morning swearing to whatever diety will listen to me that I won't yell today. I review every situation where I yelled and try to figure out a better way around it next time... and yet, she finds new buttons to push. My child is an evil genius...

I don't think a single instance of spanking is going to ruin your child for life. I don't mean that to be any sort of support for spanking, I just mean to tell you that failing once (or even a few times) neither makes you a bad parent nor means you and he are doomed to strife and a negative relationship forever. As much as I hate my yelling, I know academically that it's so so so much less than the "average" parent, certainly far less than I grew up with. That doesn't stop me from earnestly wanting to do better, but it keeps me from totally hating myself. Seriously, the more I hate myself for yelling, the more stressed out I get - and the more I yell. So, step back, regroup, promise to do better tomorrow. Don't expect that you'll be perfect tomorrow, just better than today. You lost a battle, but you didn't lose the war


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## sohj (Jan 14, 2003)

I have no idea how hard this must be for you, so I'm just sending a


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## cmb123 (Dec 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UrbanPlanter*
.

I have already eliminated dairy, soy, berries, and corn, and now I am eliminating wheat. He has so many other issues, like chronic eczema and he still wakes every hour or two. I am wondering if his behavior is partly related to the food.

My goodness, it sure sounds like it!
How wonderful that you are tuned into that. I think so many kids have this problem, yet no one seems to take food allergies seriously (well, here people do, but IRL).


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## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

UP you're not a failure; you were driven to the wall, hit it and messed up.

The focus of the discussion is how to improve your son's behavior (and it sounds really tough), but that's a different thread.

This happened a couple of days ago. My suggestion is that you ask yourself these questions: What has your son said about it? What have you said to your son? What are you doing to rebuild the trust between you? Does he know that he didn't "make" you spank him by hitting or anything he did? Does he know that you believe it is never acceptable for you to hit him and that you made a serious mistake?

What a bunch of people on MDC think about it doesn't matter a hill of beans. Healing whatever effect it has on your relationship with your son does.


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## johub (Feb 19, 2005)

Mom,
Take a deep breath, ask your son for forgiveness and forgive yourself, then forge ahead armed with a new plan.
Many of us get pushed past the line where we are in full control of our reactions by our kids.
It is the overall pattern of behavior and how we treat our children that is far far far more important than the occasoinal exception.
I would look into the feingold diet.. There are so many natural chemicals and artificial additives which can cause behavioral issues, some are found in healthful and natural foods too! (apples and grapes for instance).

I lost it a bit today myself and yelled at my 3 year old and wanted wanted wanted to spank him.

You are human and you are facing a big challenge. You CAN pick yourself up and face a new day with a renewed commitment not to spank.
Good luck
Joline


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## sistermama (May 6, 2003)

Quote:

I told my dh that I am a total failure as a mom, a wife, and in my career. And it's all coming out in how ds is acting as I think he is mirroring my failures in his behavior. And then I go and spank him
Isn't the guilt the absolute worst? Just wanted to send a little love your way.

I have been there, done that, and I know it takes a lot of balls to admit to it on MDC. I have learned with my own ds that there are certain power issues I must simply avoid at all costs, or else I will end up spanking, throwing something, etc. My main one happened to be getting him to nap, so I just had to stop having him nap. (Just using that as an example.) For the other issues, I have learned to be vigilant in watching for the signs that my buttons are getting REALLY pushed and that I have to disengage. Sometimes this means I close myself in my room for a couple of minutes (even if he is crying and beating on the door) and do some deep breathing, etc., to get myself calmed down. If dh is home, sometimes I'll leave in the car for a little while. Another thing that has really helped me is if I tell myself, in the midst of some awful behavior on his part, that I am going to "practice" staying calm, not losing my temper, etc. For some reason this helps me step back, look at the situation a little bit and choose how I'll respond.

I also try to remind myself that the emotions I feel before I lose my temper and spank (frustration, rage, etc.) are probably the exact same ways ds feels before he hits. So as I am discovering ways to check my temper, etc., I need to be helping him learn those things too. Afterall, saying things like, "we use gentle hands, etc." don't really give a child any useable information for the moment they are really pissed off. First they need to learn how to appropriately channel and deal with the emotions that make them want to hit.


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## Magella (Apr 5, 2004)

Many more good gd moms than you know have made the same mistake or similar mistakes. Moms are human. Moms make mistakes. You are not a failure. Sounds to me like you're working pretty darn hard at being an understanding and gentle mom, and that makes your son a very lucky boy. I agree with those who've said apologize to your son, forgive yourself, and move on. You have not scarred him for life, you've made a single mistake.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UrbanPlanter*
I told my dh that I am a total failure as a mom, a wife, and in my career. And it's all coming out in how ds is acting as I think he is mirroring my failures in his behavior.

It also sounds like you're under a lot of stress. Maybe it's time to take care of yourself a little more. FWIW, the last time I felt like a total failure at so many things I was depressed and needed some help with that. I seriously doubt that your son's behaviors are mirroring your failings-first because you probably really aren't a failure at all those things, and second because kids can just be difficult (and often are) without their mothers being at fault.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessmcg*
Octobermom - I have heard this, but am struggling with find more information about it, please tell us more!

here is a starting point both the article and the links give information..
http://www.allergicchild.com/images/...r_problems.htm HTH

Deanna


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## white_feather (Sep 17, 2004)

Quote:

I have been there, done that, and I know it takes a lot of balls to admit to it on MDC.
Well said!

Yup, I've been there and done that too. More than once. My ds knows my buttons, and pushes them well. Lately, he's taken to admitting that he's purposely trying to aggravate me. He's particularly difficult, as evidenced by the fact that I have none of these issues with my daughter.

Personally, I don't think guilt and repentence is worth the effort. It won't make us better parents. Our job is to take responsibility and try to do better next time. Parenting is a series of ups and downs and figuring out what works. No one is doing it perfectly. Not any single one of us.

My son also happens to have many severe food allergy issues. Have you considered having him tested?


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## santina (Jun 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UrbanPlanter*

I have already eliminated dairy, soy, berries, and corn, and now I am eliminating wheat. He has so many other issues, like chronic eczema and he still wakes every hour or two. I am wondering if his behavior is partly related to the food. After a day or two off wheat so far, he seems to be doing better - except when he was overtired and needed a nap and fell into a screaming fit again (no hitting this time).









It really sounds like your ds has food allergies, now you just have to find out which ones. Why did you eliminate dairy, soy, berries, and corn? What happened? I agree with octobermom about removing all gluten. If you saw an improvement from wheat, this makes sense. Gluten is the protein found in grain - wheat, barley, rye, and maybe oats. There is some disagreement amoung professionals about oat.


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## charmarty (Jan 27, 2002)

hey sunshine. I just wnated to give you a big ole


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Your post made me cry. Why is it that we moms are so damn hard on ourselves?

I, too, have spanked DD (4 times)







& I know better! I have been struggling over the guilt & praying that she won't remember & that I haven't broken our bond or her trust in any way.

Seeing you beat yourself up for it just makes me see myself & you know what? We aren't perfect & we will make mistakes. As others have said, the important thing is recognizing it & trying to find other solutions.
I was led astray about spanking by DH who truly believes that being spanked as a child *worked* for him - that he *needed* it







& that it left no scars. Ironically, DH is not for or against spanking & I was/am totally anti-spanking. I don't know why I did it. I also had James Dobson running around in my brain. uke Why I read that book I don't know.

I sure hope you find the root cause - the allergy thing sounds right on target - especially w/the excema too.

Give yourself a







- you're certainly *not* a failure!


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## sadie_sabot (Dec 17, 2002)

awww, honey, I agree with others who are saying, you messed up to spank, you know it, now let yourself move on. You are not a failure.

Plus, you just spent time with someone who told you to hit him...I avoid reading authoritarian/punitive parenting books because it worms it's way into your brain. Not like it's your mom's fault you spanked, but her telling you to might have made it easier for you to reach that point?

All of my no-wheat friends have ecxma that acts up if they eat wheat, so ti sounds like you're on the right track.

i am so glad you can come here and get support instead of condemnation.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

UP btdt. one of the hardest behaviours for me to deal with is my dd hitting me. for some reason it really, really gets to me. i have spanked her when i lost control and it tore me up but her intense reaction helped me stop ever repeating it (it wasnt hard but she said in an unbelievable voice, mama u hit me?! mama u HIT me!!). but my feelings have not gone away. so instead when she continues hitting me i voice my feelings. 'i dont like what u r doing, i really hate it when u hit me. i get really, really angry. and it really, really makes me want to hit u. but i know u dont like hitting. and i dont like hitting too. i dont want to see u sad. so please help me by stopping please.' sometimes she really needs to hit to get the frustration out (usually always happens when she is tired or hungry). then i tell her its ok to hit the couch or bed or pillow.

here is an article i had bookmarked a long time ago for future reference,

http://borntoexplore.org/allergies.htm


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

One time when I was trying to get my very tired baby to sleep by nursing in bed, and DD came up to us and started whacking him on the head, I totally lost it. I went to intercept her hand from hitting DS's head, but in the process I basically slapped her hand away. I don't know if some people would even technically call what I did a "spank", and certainly there was no concious thought process involved. I wasn't thinking "hmm, maybe if I slap her she will stop". I was just completely exhausted, out of emotional energy, and being a mama bear sick of seeing her baby getting whacked. I lashed out and it came out as a slap. And in my heart I knew I had "spanked" her. This has happened on 2 other occasions over the last six months, all related to her hitting and pushing her baby brother when I'm already overtired and stressed out.

I remember at the time thinking "how can I face the other GD mamas, or give any advice there ever again, when I am such a total failure"? But the mamas here are better than that, they truly are.







I bawled afterwards, because I felt I had broken a bond of trust with my child. I so completely know where you are coming from. I remember a couple of years ago (before I had 2 kids) thinking that I was simply incapable of lashing out physically, and that any mama who did was somehow less..."together" than I was. But now I can see that any one of us can resort to that when our emotional resources are depleted enough. When you have nothing in you to control your emotions, one's animal instincts just come out.

So, all this to say: you are not alone. And you are not a failure. You are human. You are trying to be your best. My only advice is to take some time out for yourself. I started going to yoga, and I also try to focus on my emotions in times where DD is stressing me out and do what I need to calm myself down.

Interestingly, what I find the absolute best help is being here! Listening to other gentle mamas is inspiring. BEING around other gentle mamas is inspiring. And I find that the more I'm immersed in it, the more energy I get inside me to keep my patience the next time I'm feeling pushed to my limits (and a 3 year old will do that to you, allergies or not!!).

Big, big hugs...


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## mamaley (Mar 18, 2002)

My son was a lot like what you described. For example (and obviously each child is different...) my dd so far has gone through a 1-2 month phase of hitting, biting, etc and now doesn't do it at all. She's almost 2 (granted, I'm probably speaking way too soon on this one! And, she is, in many ways, way more spunky than ds. But with ds spunky didn't even describe him. Anyway...)

Ds, on the other hand, started his hitting/biting/grabbing/hurting in general (and lots of it) phase at 18 months and kept at it until 3 and a half or so. It was SO hard. SO challenging. I loved him so much (still do, of course!) and at times he was the sweetest little guy in the world. But there were so many times I'd almost lose it. I did spank him, and just like you I felt horrible. I lost my temper several times. But overall, like you, I was patient and loving and somehow, someway kept it together. And this is what he will remember. Just keep trying...

Back to the behavior though, you are wise to try the diet changes. And not to complicate your life anymore, you might want to consider taking out artifical dyes and preservatives, if you haven't already...in fact, if you haven't already, check out the feingold diet. It's more than removing the dyes and preservatives. We tried it for a few weeks, and even his teachers at preschool asked us what we had done to him, he was so much better! We never pinpointed the food exactly, we just removed dyes and preservatives as much as possible and his behavior improved dramatically. I want to add here that we were eating what I considered healthy at the time, and it's not like we had been giving him blue oatmeal for breakfast. And I need to add though that this is also when he had been in speech therapy for a few months, which I think was also helping (he was often frustrated because he had difficulty speaking, no one could understand him but us) and he was starting to get used to his 2 month old sister, which were both definitely significant, to say the least. But I sincerely credit removing those foods from our home to much of this change.

FWIW, my son is 5 now and people don't believe me when I tell them what he was like at that age. He is the most laid back child...such a sweetheart.

I know dealing with all of this can be so hard. I hope you find out what is triggering this behavior in your son and things change. Good luck, and don't be too hard on yourself...not just anyone can do what you're doing. It is definitely challenging work.


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## bamamom (Dec 9, 2004)

You aren't a bad mom, you're normal. And I am not not not a guru of GD, but I can easily tell you that you haven't messed him up for life. You swatted him on the butt a couple of times.... you didn't go get a stick or a belt and lay into him , hitting him fifteen or twenty or even thirty times. I am curious, did he even cry? What was his response? Did it just make him madder?

Please don't beat yourself up over this one instance...


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## Jenne (May 21, 2004)

Hmmm...I'm not going to address the spanking because you can't go back in time and I believe that you will repair the bond between yourself and your child. But I did want to comment on something I noticed in your post-your lack of cofidence as a mom. My bet is that your son can sense your insecurity, which makes him feel insecure (that whole pesky mirroring thing), which then leads to acting out. You are doing the BEST job you know how to do! You are the BEST mom for YOUR son. No one in the world knows him better, loves him more, or wants what is best for him. You are exponentially qualified and whether you believe it or not are doing a GREAT job of being his mama. Please trust yourself and your ability to be your child's mom.
My bet is that the more confidence you project the better you will feel and the better your son will feel. Anxiety is such a vicious little beast!

Jenne


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## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UrbanPlanter*
I have already eliminated dairy, soy, berries, and corn, and now I am eliminating wheat. He has so many other issues, like chronic eczema and he still wakes every hour or two. I am wondering if his behavior is partly related to the food.

It is really hard not to lose patience with a child who is out of control and attacking you physically, and so frustrating when the behavior just goes on and on and nothing you do seems to help change it.

I think you are on the right track with the dietary changes. Casein (dairy protein) and gluten (protein in wheat, barley, rye, oats) are very common triggers for out of control behavior. If they are not properly broken down and the gut leaks, large peptides called casomorphins and gluteomorphins get to their brains and act like drugs. No type of discipline will help if your child is tripping on food.

At 18 months, our now 2.5 yr old DS had sensory integration problems, woke every 40 minutes screaming, had one tantrum after another all day long, was hyperactive, aggressive with other kids, and violent with DH and I....until we completely removed all the dairy from his diet and mine as well (still nursing). It took 6 weeks to get out of his system but suddenly he was a different kid - by 8 weeks we were sure - then three accidental exposures to casein confirmed it - whenever he gets any casein at all, even through me, he goes nuts for four days. Otherwise he is a calm, communicative, very social, very friendly little boy (finally !!!) We also found an allergist and tested his whole diet, and found five other foods he was allergic to, and eliminated those as well. Both his mental state (including sleep and behavior) and physical health (infections, respiratory problems, reflux) have improved dramatically since getting his diet adjusted.

If you've already eliminated obvious dairy, make sure you've eliminated the dairy ingredients hidden in other foods too (ie whey, caseinates). A gluten-free trial is probably also worth doing (we are getting ready to do that ourselves). You can find a lot of information on how a gluten-free casein-free diet helps many kids just by doing a seach on GFCF. Also a good book to read is "Is This Your Child" by an MD named Doris Rapp.

Good luck !


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## fire_lady (Aug 24, 2005)

Dont worry to much mama.We all commit mistakes. Take to your child about it and tell him your sorry.


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## jacksmama (Sep 19, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Piglet68*
One time when I was trying to get my very tired baby to sleep by nursing in bed, and DD came up to us and started whacking him on the head, I totally lost it. I went to intercept her hand from hitting DS's head, but in the process I basically slapped her hand away. I don't know if some people would even technically call what I did a "spank", and certainly there was no concious thought process involved. I wasn't thinking "hmm, maybe if I slap her she will stop". I was just completely exhausted, out of emotional energy, and being a mama bear sick of seeing her baby getting whacked. I lashed out and it came out as a slap. And in my heart I knew I had "spanked" her. This has happened on 2 other occasions over the last six months, all related to her hitting and pushing her baby brother when I'm already overtired and stressed out.

I remember at the time thinking "how can I face the other GD mamas, or give any advice there ever again, when I am such a total failure"? But the mamas here are better than that, they truly are.







I bawled afterwards, because I felt I had broken a bond of trust with my child. I so completely know where you are coming from. I remember a couple of years ago (before I had 2 kids) thinking that I was simply incapable of lashing out physically, and that any mama who did was somehow less..."together" than I was. But now I can see that any one of us can resort to that when our emotional resources are depleted enough. When you have nothing in you to control your emotions, one's animal instincts just come out.

So, all this to say: you are not alone. And you are not a failure. You are human. You are trying to be your best. My only advice is to take some time out for yourself. I started going to yoga, and I also try to focus on my emotions in times where DD is stressing me out and do what I need to calm myself down.

Interestingly, what I find the absolute best help is being here! Listening to other gentle mamas is inspiring. BEING around other gentle mamas is inspiring. And I find that the more I'm immersed in it, the more energy I get inside me to keep my patience the next time I'm feeling pushed to my limits (and a 3 year old will do that to you, allergies or not!!).

Big, big hugs...































: Piglet: You're such a great inspiration!








Urban Planter: I couldn't have said it better myself - so, yes to everything she said.


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## LoveBeads (Jul 8, 2002)

You're gotten great advice and I know you are a terrific mom. I'm lucky - I happen to have a child who has never hit. I cannot imagine what it is like to deal with a child who hits and bites so I, personally, would never judge someone for how frustrated you must have been.

I do have a screamer and that has led me to scream more times than I wish to admit. I have also felt like a GD failure at times. That's called "being human" and I finally learned to forgive myself because I am not a fem-bot who can just paste the smile on every single second of evey single day (not that GDers are fem-bots - I just loved Austin Powers so I look for any excuse to use that word! :LOL ).

I guarantee you that you have not scarred your son for life. It is completely HEALTHY for our kids to see us f*ck up once in a while. It is completely HEALTHY for our kids to see us angry once in a while. It is completely HEALTHY for our kids to hear us apologize to them once in a while for these behaviors. You have not done anything terrible!

hugs.


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## bamamom (Dec 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llp34*
....until we completely removed all the dairy from his diet and mine as well (still nursing). It took 6 weeks to get out of his system but suddenly he was a different kid - by 8 weeks we were sure - then three accidental exposures to casein confirmed it - whenever he gets any casein at all, even through me, he goes nuts for four days. Otherwise he is a calm, communicative, very social, very friendly little boy (finally !!!) We also found an allergist and tested his whole diet, and found five other foods he was allergic to, and eliminated those as well. Both his mental state (including sleep and behavior) and physical health (infections, respiratory problems, reflux) have improved dramatically since getting his diet adjusted. !


I am curious how the allergy testing goes, what do they do? THis description fits my dd perfectly....once I accidentally gave her something with milk in it.... We have known she has a dairy allergy since birth...and wow! She had diarrhea for SIX weeks, and ran in crazy circles screaming and flapping her arms. She would be walking and then just fall down in the floor screaming in pain. Lots of chiro visits helped us through , and we found out that she had muscle spasms in her muscles, which is why she couldn't walk... She was sixteen or seventeen mos at the time...........I am curious to see if she has other big food allergies we are missing.......


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## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bamamom*
I am curious how the allergy testing goes, what do they do?

For the actual allergies that involve the immune system, our doctor does skin testing with a little injection of each potential allergen just under the skin on his upper arm. It doesn't hurt because we use EMLA cream to numb the area for 30 minutes before the injections. They can test up to six things in one appointment. If you test more than that at once, the results might not be accurate because you can start to get cross-reactions.

They use three different dilutions of each allergen. The first series of injections is a very dilute preparation of each one. They inject them, wait ten minutes, then look to see which allergens cause a hive to develop, and measure the hive. Then they do another set that is a stronger concentration, then a third set that is even stronger. For Evan's severe allergies (chicken and egg), he got a large hive at the weakest dilution. For his less severe allergies (beef, rice, tomato), he developed only small hives and only at the most concentrated dilution. We didn't do the skin test for dairy because the person has to be exposed to the allergen within 24 hours before the test, and he has such a severe reaction to it that we can't expose him to it. But we don't need an allergy test for that one anyway.

Evan has a true allergy to dairy, because it give him hives, but he also has an intolerance to it that is not an immune reaction...he doesn't break the casein down all the way, and it leaves large peptides (casomorphins) that leak through his gut into his bloodstream, and end up affecting his brain like a drug. That's why it took 6-8 weeks for his hyperactivity and other problems to wear off once we eliminated it, and why he goes so out of control with the least little exposure to it.


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## annab (Mar 25, 2003)

That is rough. I pinched my son yesterday, and I have been having the same guilt. It was more of a tentative grab to keep him from moving (he had made a major spill at my mom's), but the minute he started to move, it would hurt him. NOT proud of myself.

As for the allergy thing--my son is the same way. I recommend reading "is This Your Child?" by Dr. Doris Rapp. I emailed her office and they recommended a doc in my area that did the provocation/neutralization testing. The scratch tests can be worthless. My son has a SEVERE dairy allergy that did not show up on a scratch test. They often use synthetic allergens and phenol. Both can give a false negative. Once we got a good test and started treatment, DS slept through the night for the first time ever--he was 28 months old. He also weaned and potty trained that same week.

Goodluck! It sounds like with a diet change, things will be easier on all of you.


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## lara1828 (Aug 11, 2005)

Remember your goal as a parent isn't to be "perfect." As in anything else, do the best that you can do, learn from your mistakes and move on.

I read somewhere that perfection in a parent would be an awful thing for a child to have to live with. Think about it - if my parents had been "perfect", I would be totally neurotic.

Take care!


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

I typed a long response yesterday with quotes and everything, and the site froze up when I tried to post it. I couldn't get it back







and then I went to bed.

So, we have been off wheat for the most part for a few days, and I think I can see a difference in his behavior. I don't know if it's the removal of wheat or that he's gotten better sleep or bc he might be afraid that I would spank him again







- but even so, he hasn't thrown any major tantrums, and will even willingly brush his teeth for bed now!

I have Doris' book. I need to make an appointment with an allergist.

Thanks for all of your replies


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## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UrbanPlanter*
..... and I think I can see a difference in his behavior. I don't know if it's the removal of wheat or that he's gotten better sleep or bc he might be afraid that I would spank him again....

I doubt it's due to fear of being spanked again....because all the books I've read quote studies showing that spanking is not an effective way to teach a child and improve behavior....


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lara1828*
Remember your goal as a parent isn't to be "perfect." As in anything else, do the best that you can do, learn from your mistakes and move on.

I read somewhere that perfection in a parent would be an awful thing for a child to have to live with. Think about it - if my parents had been "perfect", I would be totally neurotic.

Take care!

I remember reading a book about "good enough" parents. My mom also read it. The next Mother's Day, I gave her a card thanking her for being a good enough parent. That was about 15 years ago, and to this day, she says it was the most touching thing she ever received from any of her kids.

She's no saint - neither am I. We just do our best and hope it's good enough...


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## sohj (Jan 14, 2003)

UP, sending another







I've heard that wheat can be the most insidious allergy from lots of people.

Just to help you in a totally logistical way, two kinds of food to maybe try cooking a lot now are Indian and Mexican. Both use very little wheat in their traditional dishes.

Dosa (a pancake/crepe thing made from rice and lentil flour) and idli (basically steamed, football-shaped thicker dosa batter) are usually _loved_ by kids.


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## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

I'm so glad you're both feeling better. It is amazing what sleep can do for everybody's perspective!!

I agree with Piglet68 on the incredible inspiration from being around gentle parents (and you are still one!).

We've recently eliminated/reduced dramatically the wheat in dd1's diet. If you google gluten free or celiac there are lots of great suggestions!


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## sweetest (May 6, 2004)

As dd gets older and more assertive, I make so many mistakes.

UP - thank you for being so open and honest. We are all learning and trying daily. Big


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## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

You are not a failure!

We are not perfect, we are human.


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sohj*
UP, sending another







I've heard that wheat can be the most insidious allergy from lots of people.

Just to help you in a totally logistical way, two kinds of food to maybe try cooking a lot now are Indian and Mexican. Both use very little wheat in their traditional dishes.

Dosa (a pancake/crepe thing made from rice and lentil flour) and idli (basically steamed, football-shaped thicker dosa batter) are usually _loved_ by kids.










SIGH! I am not an inspired cook, as you know! Now I have to relearn everything!

And, doesn't Mexican have a lot of corn? We aren't eating corn.

I was thinking that his/our diet will become very asian/middle eastern - Indian does make sense, too.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Sorry I didn't get to this thread earlier.

I've said it before, I'll say it again... UP you are an EXCELLENT mother. Any child would be lucky to have you, one spank or no. I'm glad you're getting the allergy thing (hopefully) under control and I'll be pulling for you.


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## kayleesmom (Dec 16, 2004)

hugs


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## annab (Mar 25, 2003)

Be careful with Indian foods. Lots of ghee and yogurt.

We do a lot of Mexican. You can get spelt tortillas. We do Asian about three nights a week since soy is not one of our issues.

There is a mom's with kids with food allergies tribe that has a lot of good info.


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

The threes are really hard. I'm sorry you had this moment. I spanked, too, in a one of those low moments of temporary insanity from stress, etc. Children forgive easily and quickly as long as they know you are trying and you are sorry. Take this as a sign that you need to get some help for yourself and ds, maybe even the whole family. We ended up taking dd to a child psychologist both to rule out possible underlying issues, and to get some suggestions on how to handle things with her in the future. It was very helpful.


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## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annab*
You can get spelt tortillas.

Spelt is not considered gluten-free by many people. It's not wheat, but it's a relative of wheat. I've read that some on GF diets include it without problems, but if you are going for completely gluten-free foods, I would look carefully into spelt before using it.


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## pjabslenz (Mar 25, 2004)

I noticed Rainbow posted the link for to http://www.feingold.org and wanted to share this article that I read in Mothering. http://www.mothering.com/articles/gr.../feingold.html
I apologize if it's been posted but haven't had the chance to read through all the posts. I definitely feel there is a connection between food & behavior.

Janetann


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## sassykat (Sep 7, 2005)

Hi, UP,
I hope you do not dwell on this one instance...even at 3 1/2, your son probably did see his spanking as discipline and not as hitting--he doesn't witness you hitting his dad or grandma, or any other person in your lives, so he would most likely assimilate what happened as a consequence. He won't be scarred for life!









Your children will always love you, no matter what mistakes you might make.















sassykat


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## Miss Kitty (Jan 30, 2003)

I know exactly how you feel. I've done it too. But I had a professor in graduate school say to us
"You aren't learning if you aren't making mistakes. If you know everything what are you doing here?"
You are learning as fast as you can and TRUST ME, there are no perfect parents , you are not a failure after one mistake.
Love yourself!!!


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