# Which carseat companies do you *avoid* and why?



## quietserena (Apr 24, 2006)

I talked to a few very mainstream people about carseats this past week and there seems to be a strange brand following regarding carseats. And I'm not talking about Britax-loving people (and I'm one of those), I mean people saying things like "I loved my Graco stroller, so we got a Graco carseat" or things along those lines. People who loved a product unrelated to safety and then base their carseat decision on that.

So now I'm curious. If you were to recommend against getting a mainstream brand carseat, which would would recommend against and why?


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Evenflo infant seats, because of their G*d- awful track record and the massive recalls, as well as the "fix" for the recalls.

Dorel, because of the huge problem with the 3-in-1 top harness slots being "booster mode only" but it's not clearly marked at all. Plus, the problem with the notches in the Touriva. Oh, and the more recent issue of the harnesses of the Scenera being damaged and they have not issued a recall even though they are well aware of the problem.







:


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## mamapixie (May 30, 2002)

Cosco/Dorel, because of their horrible business practices, plus the recalls(or lack thereof) I still remember how it took a 20/20 special on the dangers of the Cosco Grand Explorer(the only shield booster left on the market for years) to get them to finally stop selling it.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

My child will not ride in a cosco/dorel/evenflo seat unless there is no other option.

-Angela


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## wendy1221 (Feb 9, 2004)

Cosco. My oldest ds rode in a dangerous seat for 9 mos that wasn't recalled until *2 years* later after SEVERAL babies were injured!


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## alysmommy2004 (Jun 23, 2006)

I avoid Evenflo like the plague. They really need to get their act together. I know most of their problem is with infant seats, but I've had several problems in the past with my two old Triumphs and their horrendous CS reps told me I was SOL (they later did a voluntary recall for those things I b*tched about).







:

I'm also not thrilled with Dorel, but if I had to I'd use a Scenera. My friend has one as a back up for her DS and I've installed it and used it for him in my car and I didn't love it, but it does the job and you get your money's worth out of it.

I currently own Chicco, Britax, and Sunshine Kids seats and I'm thrilled with all of them. I have had a Graco seat in the past and it's okay, not my favorite, but I'd use them again.


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## Shelsi (Apr 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
Evenflo infant seats, because of their G*d- awful track record and the massive recalls, as well as the "fix" for the recalls.

Dorel, because of the huge problem with the 3-in-1 top harness slots being "booster mode only" but it's not clearly marked at all. Plus, the problem with the notches in the Touriva. Oh, and the more recent issue of the harnesses of the Scenera being damaged and they have not issued a recall even though they are well aware of the problem.







:

What's wrong with the scenera harnesses? We have one although we only use it when we fly so we're not using it currently...


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## KayleeZoo (Apr 8, 2003)

After reading, this: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...3.story?page=1, DH and I vowed to never, ever let our children ride in a seat manufactured by Dorel (Cosco, Eddie Bauer, Safety First) or Evenflo again. We had to get rid of 2 Sceneras and an Apex (our spares). I will not buy any other products from either company, either, out of principle.

We own and use Britax, Sunshine Kids, Compass, The First Years (True Fit seat), and Graco seats. I trust them with my kids' lives









There are a bunch of Sceneras (not sure of the DOMs) that have sharp plastic spikes on the underside of the seat; the harness is getting snagged and becoming damaged as a result. Dorel will send you a new "puncture proof harness" if you call and harass them. As usual, they are all about child safety


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## linguistmama (Sep 25, 2006)

I avoid Evenflo like the plague and now Dorel/Cosco. I would have considered a Cosco Scenera as a backup until reading this thread though! We currently have 2 Britaxes and I would buy a Graco or Chico infant seat if we ever needed one.


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## intorainbowz (Aug 16, 2006)

You really have to be kidding me. For quite some time, the Costco Scenera has been the go to car seat for those who cannot/do not wish to spend $300. Now it's crap. That's just dandy.

So is there any affordable car seat out there? Or are only the wealthy able to purchase a safe car seat for their child?

Funny thing is, people on this thread recommeded the Scenera to me.


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## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *intorainbowz* 
You really have to be kidding me. For quite some time, the Costco Scenera has been the go to car seat for those who cannot/do not wish to spend $300. Now it's crap. That's just dandy.

So is there any affordable car seat out there? Or are only the wealthy able to purchase a safe car seat for their child?

Funny thing is, people on this thread recommeded the Scenera to me.

Totally...

How many times have I seen the Cosco Scenera recommended as a 'great' alternative to one of the expensive seats.

Now people (who I've directly seen recommend it) say they'd NEVER put their kid in one...

Good enough for other people's kids.... But not their own.


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## haleyelianasmom (Nov 5, 2005)

We just moved dd out of her evenflo seat, but only because she was too tall for it. We got it because of its high rating on consumer reports.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I'm one that regularly says they won't put their kids in these seats. And yeah, a handful of times I've suggested a scenera. IME there ARE no good cheap seats. Sucks. But I think a child in a properly fitting seat, rf as long as possible, harnessed as long as possible, is safer than one not.

If I had no other option on seats, I would use a scenera before letting my child be ff very young or not harnessed etc. But I would move heaven and earth to get a different seat. I just don't trust them.

It's a two edged sword in some ways IMO. Yeah, it would be great if we had more affordable, "good" seats. But really, IMO, the solution (big picture) is to raise standards- which will most likely just make the cheapest seats more expensive. Then everyone will HAVE to get more expensive seats.

I think in some ways it just has to be viewed as an unavoidable expense. Cars aren't cheap either.

-Angela


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *haleyelianasmom* 
We just moved dd out of her evenflo seat, but only because she was too tall for it. We got it because of its high rating on consumer reports.









Consumer reports is NOT a good source for information on carseats.

-Angela


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shelsi* 
What's wrong with the scenera harnesses? We have one although we only use it when we fly so we're not using it currently...

The Scenera has these spikes on the underside that can snag the harness and cause some rips. Just turn your seat over and visually inspect the harness. You may or may not have spikes on yours. Dorel is aware of the problem but hasn't done anything yet, besides sending out "stronger" harnesses that are exactly the same as the original ones.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
IME there ARE no good cheap seats. Sucks. But I think a child in a properly fitting seat, rf as long as possible, harnessed as long as possible, is safer than one not. <snip>

If I had no other option on seats, I would use a scenera before letting my child be ff very young or not harnessed etc.
-Angela

ITA. You get what you pay for. A $40 seat is not going to be the highest quality, obviously. But it will do it's job and restrain a child in a crash.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Consumer reports is NOT a good source for information on carseats.

-Angela

Once again, ITA.


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## CharlieBrown (Jan 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Consumer reports is NOT a good source for information on carseats.

-Angela

What is a good source?


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CharlieBrown* 
What is a good source?

All of the car seat freaks on this board







Or on car-seat.org


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## ScotiaSky (Jul 2, 2004)

I do not avoid car seat companies just car seat models.

I own and buy what ever meets my needs\wants and budget for each child.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CharlieBrown* 
What is a good source?


Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
All of the car seat freaks on this board







Or on car-seat.org









Yep. There are no groups that are doing reliable testing on carseats sadly.

-Angela


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## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Yep. There are no groups that are doing reliable testing on carseats sadly.

-Angela

So - is what you're saying that all the 'recommendations' are based on 'feel' and anecdotal evidence????










That seems like a nice void of actual information on which to base suggestions as to which carseats to use and which ones to avoid...


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
So - is what you're saying that all the 'recommendations' are based on 'feel' and anecdotal evidence????










That seems like a nice void of actual information on which to base suggestions as to which carseats to use and which ones to avoid...

No, the recommendations are based on 'training' and 'experience'.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
So - is what you're saying that all the 'recommendations' are based on 'feel' and anecdotal evidence????










That seems like a nice void of actual information on which to base suggestions as to which carseats to use and which ones to avoid...

I can't speak to others and what information *they* use.

I base MY recommendations on:

company track record (what is their testing like, do they make carseats for other markets where standards are higher, do they recall potential problems etc)

safety FEATURES (things that aren't required but increase safety- additional side impact protection, eps foam, rf tethers, high weight limits, high strap slots, ease of installation etc)

So, neither of those sections are either anecdotal OR personal "feel"

-Angela


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Exactly, and we take more into consideration.

For instance, Consumer Reports ranked the Evenflo Triumph the highest. So I went out and got one for my 2 month old ($120). She outgrew it RF at 18 months of age. So, at 18 months, I went out and bought her a Marathon ($260). She fit RF in that for over a year. So, I recommend against the old Triumph because it will be outgrown very young RF, and it will be outgrown FF well before the child is ready for a booster. Buying the Marathon for $220 on sale right off the bat saves people money and keeps the child safe longer.

When I make a recommendation, it is based on the age/height/weight of the child, the vehicle they will be riding in, other siblings in the vehicle, the budget of the family, and the longevity of the seat.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Seat longevity is one that drives me BONKERS. Fact of the matter is that cheap seats - as a rule - don't last long (low weights, low straps) and so they end up costing you MORE in the long run if you want to keep kids safest for as long as possible (rf and harnessed respectively)

Now - been there, done that on money. Sometimes you need a seat NOW and only have X amount to spend on it. And in those situations I usually suggest a less expensive seat BUT I also make SURE to mention that they need to start planning and saving for a more expensive seat down the road.

Now there are a few less expensive seats coming on to the market that are good choices for longevity (nautilus is the first one that comes to mind...) and I'm THRILLED to see that. Hopefully the trend will continue.

-Angela


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## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I can't speak to others and what information *they* use.

I base MY recommendations on:

company track record (what is their testing like, do they make carseats for other markets where standards are higher, do they recall potential problems etc)

safety FEATURES (things that aren't required but increase safety- additional side impact protection, eps foam, rf tethers, high weight limits, high strap slots, ease of installation etc)

So, neither of those sections are either anecdotal OR personal "feel"

-Angela

Then why did you say:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Yep. There are no groups that are doing reliable testing on carseats sadly.

-Angela

Since there aren't any groups doing "reliable" testing - then how do you know that those extra safety features are worth paying money for?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
Exactly, and we take more into consideration.

For instance, Consumer Reports ranked the Evenflo Triumph the highest. So I went out and got one for my 2 month old ($120). She outgrew it RF at 18 months of age. So, at 18 months, I went out and bought her a Marathon ($260). She fit RF in that for over a year. So, I recommend against the old Triumph because it will be outgrown very young RF, and it will be outgrown FF well before the child is ready for a booster. Buying the Marathon for $220 on sale right off the bat saves people money and keeps the child safe longer.

When I make a recommendation, it is based on the age/height/weight of the child, the vehicle they will be riding in, other siblings in the vehicle, the budget of the family, and the longevity of the seat.

Each family is different. My DD is 19 months. She weighs just under 20 pounds and is still short enough that she has between 1.5 and 2 inches of shell left in her safeseat.

We have a Titan - and she'll be RFing in that forever if we choose. At 19 months she's still not legal to turn FFing. And we won't for some time. She still have many inches left in the shell height there.

But - if we'd bought a "more expensive" seat - like we did with the safeseat which we bought before we know what kind of kid she would be - it would have been a waste. She will never use that 'value'...


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## dallaschildren (Jun 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
So - is what you're saying that all the 'recommendations' are based on 'feel' and anecdotal evidence????










That seems like a nice void of actual information on which to base suggestions as to which carseats to use and which ones to avoid...

Car seat manufacturers self certify. NHTSA puts forth the recommendations and the manufacturers are responsible for their own testing. One need only to peruse the list of recalls and other applicable news articles to get factual information on the track records of different manufacturers. How do recalls occur? In part, they are issued after NHTSA tests X number of seats. A percentage fail, they issue a recall through the manufacturer. NHTSA randonly pulls car seats and tests them. They do not meet minimum requirements, they are recalled.
In addition to testing and recalls, the parameters in determining the "best" car seat (thereby also the ones to avoid) is the one that fits the child, one that fits the vehicle and is one the parent/caregiver will use correctly everytime.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
Since there aren't any groups doing "reliable" testing - then how do you know that those extra safety features are worth paying money for?

Physics









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
Each family is different. My DD is 19 months. She weighs just under 20 pounds and is still short enough that she has between 1.5 and 2 inches of shell left in her safeseat.

The Titan will keep her RF'ing for a good long while, true, but it would be a rare child indeed who lasts to 4 in that seat FF. And that's the bare minimum for a booster. You're still going to need another seat. And, 18 months is average to outgrow the SS1, so she's really not that tiny (height wise).

I have a tiny toddler as well (18.5 pounds at 16 months) and she is RF in a Marathon. Tiny kids will get their money's worth out of a seat, but the *average child* will not.


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## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
The Titan will keep her RF'ing for a good long while, true, but it would be a rare child indeed who lasts to 4 in that seat FF. And that's the bare minimum for a booster. You're still going to need another seat. And, 18 is average to outgrow the SS1, so she's really not that tiny (height wise).

I have a tiny toddler as well (18.5 pounds at 16 months) and she is RF in a Marathon. Tiny kids will get their money's worth out of a seat, but the *average child* will not.

And we'll probably get a Radian when she's done - or for the next kid.

She still fits the SS1 - she has another inch or so to grow in her body before she outgrows it. But she's grown a grand total on 1 inch in 6 months - and that was basically all in her legs.

So we'll keep using the bucket as the "other" carseat for a while (like in grandma and grampa's car...).


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## kerc (May 9, 2002)

Two things I consider are how easy a carseat is to install in your car and also how easy it is to fasten a child into.

Frankly if I'm buying a 300 dollar carseat and having to move it 2 times a day to do daycare drop off/pick up, then my money is better spent on 2 150 dollar seats. Until installing a carseat is as simple as clicking a seat belt is, moving carseats is a pain.

We had a graco bucket and when we moved dd1 out we specifically avoided a graco carseat because the straps are so twisty. Meaning it can be tricky to avoid twisting the straps. Likewise, some of the carseats I've seen (don't recall the brand right now) the buckle is a pain in the rear to either get fastened or unfastened. Now I don't want it so easy to unfasten that my young dd is doing it herself, but I do want to be able to do it reasonably easily when my baby is crying or its raining or whatever.

I'm not familiar enough with multiple brands of carseats at this time -- we bought 2 of those radian carseats 2 years ago and I might never go back. I now own 3.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
Then why did you say:

Since there aren't any groups doing "reliable" testing - then how do you know that those extra safety features are worth paying money for?


I know that there are companies that refuse to recall seats with known problems until children die.

I know that children are safer rf.

I know that children are safer in a 5pt harness.

I know that a carseat is safer if properly installed.

I know that eps foam makes carseats safer.

Those are simple facts of physics.

Things like additional side impact protection and rf tethers are not yet proven safer- true. However I have enough of a background in physics to deduce that they most likely add to safety.

-Angela


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
We have a Titan - and she'll be RFing in that forever if we choose. At 19 months she's still not legal to turn FFing. And we won't for some time. She still have many inches left in the shell height there.

But - if we'd bought a "more expensive" seat - like we did with the safeseat which we bought before we know what kind of kid she would be - it would have been a waste. She will never use that 'value'...

Hardly will keep her rf forever







There ARE more seats that will keep kids rf longer than there used to be. That's GREAT









And yeah- I had a kid who hated the lying down position of an infant seat- the safeseat would be a waste for us as well. But I am quite happy to pay a bit more to get the companion with the anti-rebound bar.

More $$ does not ALWAYS mean a better seat. But sadly, in general, the less expensive seats are not as good as the more pricey ones.

-Angela


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dallaschildren* 
In part, they are issued after NHTSA tests X number of seats. A percentage fail, they issue a recall through the manufacturer. NHTSA randonly pulls car seats and tests them. They do not meet minimum requirements, they are recalled.

Above and beyond this, some carseat manufacturers regularly issue voluntary recalls for things that have not failed according to NHTSA, but the manufacturer thinks is not up to standards. I would rather have my child in a seat made by a company that does not wait for their seats to *officially* fail before recalling them.

-Angela


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Things like additional side impact protection and rf tethers are not yet proven safer- true. However I have enough of a background in physics to deduce that they most likely add to safety.

-Angela

RF tethers have been proven safer in side impacts, which is where the biggest difference lies. Side impact crashes are also the most dangerous.


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## CharlieBrown (Jan 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kerc* 
Two things I consider are how easy a carseat is to install in your car and also how easy it is to fasten a child into.

Frankly if I'm buying a 300 dollar carseat and having to move it 2 times a day to do daycare drop off/pick up, then my money is better spent on 2 150 dollar seats. Until installing a carseat is as simple as clicking a seat belt is, moving carseats is a pain.

We had a graco bucket and when we moved dd1 out we specifically avoided a graco carseat because the straps are so twisty. Meaning it can be tricky to avoid twisting the straps. Likewise, some of the carseats I've seen (don't recall the brand right now) the buckle is a pain in the rear to either get fastened or unfastened. Now I don't want it so easy to unfasten that my young dd is doing it herself, but I do want to be able to do it reasonably easily when my baby is crying or its raining or whatever.

I'm not familiar enough with multiple brands of carseats at this time -- we bought 2 of those radian carseats 2 years ago and I might never go back. I now own 3.









:

Not everyone can afford a Britax. I have 2 Britax in the car and van I drive, but ONLY a Cosco in DH's car. He rarely transports ds, so why pay $300 plus to collect dust?!?


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
RF tethers have been proven safer in side impacts, which is where the biggest difference lies. Side impact crashes are also the most dangerous.

Well there you go...
















-Angela


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## kijip (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *intorainbowz* 

So is there any affordable car seat out there? Or are only the wealthy able to purchase a safe car seat for their child?


The Scenera is good for the price. Is it as nice as a more expensive seat? No. But it is as good as or better than a lot of the seats priced between $80-190. Still, it is not as easy to use properly as seats in the $200-300 range on average. Ease of proper use is the main thing affecting safety.

I also do not think someone needs to be rich to find $200 for a carseat. Can all afford that? No. But it is not out of reach to all but the well off.


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## CharlieBrown (Jan 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kijip* 
I also do not think someone needs to be rich to find $200 for a carseat.

What a rude statement! Many people can't afford $200 for a car seat. They need that money for rent, food, and utilities.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CharlieBrown* 
What a rude statement! Many people can't afford $200 for a car seat. They need that money for rent, food, and utilities.

I think that the time is coming that all carseats will be more expensive. When standards go up (please... soon?) then there will be no other option. I'm sure there was a time that carseats PERIOD were "too expensive" for many.

-Angela


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kijip* 
The Scenera is good for the price. Is it as nice as a more expensive seat? No. But it is as good as or better than a lot of the seats priced between $80-190. Still, it is not as easy to use properly as seats in the $200-300 range on average. Ease of proper use is the main thing affecting safety.

I also do not think someone needs to be rich to find $200 for a carseat. Can all afford that? No. But it is not out of reach to all but the well off.

Yep, I am not rich by any stretch of the imagination (DH has been laid off and on unemployment for several months) but my children are properly restrained. Unfortunately seats for tall or heavy children are more expensive. We saved and bought her a Regent, weren't happy with the fit, sold it and got a Nautilus. We could have gotten the Frontier for $260 but I didn't see the need, so we got the $127 Nautilus instead.

Also, there is a new seat that looks pretty cool. It it is the replacement of the Safety 1st Uptown. It's $80 and has 16" top slots.


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## kijip (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CharlieBrown* 
What a rude statement! Many people can't afford $200 for a car seat. They need that money for rent, food, and utilities.

My husband and I were 23 and 24, living in a one room studio apartment and each working low paying jobs when our son was born, with one of us on unpaid leave. We bought him a Britax carseat. I know all about $ for rent, food, utilities. We ate a lot of beans and meals with my family. As a CPS Tech, the people I have seen complain the most about car seat prices are most often not as low income as I was when I became a mother. It is incorrect to say that you have to be wealthy to find $200 to pay for a carseat, that was all I was saying and I made it clear not everyone could. Cars are expensive...even cheap, old ones have an operating cost. Having a car in and of itself is a financial advantage many don't/can't afford. In this case, money does buy a better quality and safer product. It would have been rude to say that everyone could or that if you didn't you didn't care about your kid- but I did not say that (nor do I think that- i grew up poor enough my parents could not have afforded $40 for a Scenera had carseats been required then), all I said was you do not have to be well off- I know this first hand.

I manage a social service agency that among other things has new car seats for kids. We have to stretch our budget and I can't tell you the number of people with brand new minivans and newer SUVs reporting fairly high incomes that seek me out and ask for a free seat because they can't afford even $40 for a Scenera. So I do think that for many priorities play a part in the equation.


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## KayleeZoo (Apr 8, 2003)

Quote:

I know that there are companies that refuse to recall seats with known problems until children die.

I know that children are safer rf.

I know that children are safer in a 5pt harness.

I know that a carseat is safer if properly installed.

I know that eps foam makes carseats safer.

Those are simple facts of physics.

Things like additional side impact protection and rf tethers are not yet proven safer- true. However I have enough of a background in physics to deduce that they most likely add to safety.

-Angela
Angela, I







: you!

I will recommend a Scenera to someone only if the other option is an expired or inappropriate seat (like a booster for a toddler, for example). But to just recommend a seat with no EPS foam made by a company that knowingly manufactured and sold seats that they knew to be dangerous when there are other, safer, options? No way in hell.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KayleeZoo* 
Angela, I







: you!

I will recommend a Scenera to someone only if the other option is an expired or inappropriate seat (like a booster for a toddler, for example). But to just recommend a seat with no EPS foam made by a company that knowingly manufactured and sold seats that they knew to be dangerous when there are other, safer, options? No way in hell.

Yeah but then people complain they are too expensive. It's a no-win situation.


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## KayleeZoo (Apr 8, 2003)

Quote:

Yeah but then people complain they are too expensive. It's a no-win situation.
Anna, it's a tough spot to be in. There are always going to be people who are outraged at the cost of the "good" seats and who feel that all seats should be $39.99, regardless of the engineering, testing, and quality of materials that go into them. I know of many people who have sacrificed and saved for a Britax, for example, because it was important to them. And then there are others who flat out cannot swing a $300 seat, but during sales and careful combination of internet codes, it's possible to get a great deal. Not that you'd know anything about stalking car seat sales, or anything









Having kids is expensive, it's true. I always advise people to start saving for a convertible seat when they find out that they are pregnant, or while TTC. Some folks think that's weird, but really, it's easier to sock away $30 per month for 9 mos than writing a check for $270 when you need a seat.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KayleeZoo* 
Not that you'd know anything about stalking car seat sales, or anything









Having kids is expensive, it's true. I always advise people to start saving for a convertible seat when they find out that they are pregnant, or while TTC. Some folks think that's weird, but really, it's easier to sock away $30 per month for 9 mos than writing a check for $270 when you need a seat.

Lol, not me









I agree, start saving ASAP and get a good seat and it will be more cost-efficient in the long run


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## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KayleeZoo* 

Having kids is expensive, it's true. I always advise people to start saving for a convertible seat when they find out that they are pregnant, or while TTC. Some folks think that's weird, but really, it's easier to sock away $30 per month for 9 mos than writing a check for $270 when you need a seat.

And some of us are already stocking away every month for our babies. Here it costs $3000 for a homebirth. That's money that has to be saved before the baby comes.

Then there's education plans - those need to be started right away to get the full value out of them.

There are a plethora of costs that come with babies.

Personally - I don't want to spend a bunch of extra money to get a car seat that no one can provide numbers proving that it's actually significantly (in the statistical sense) safer.

I'm minored in statistics. I believe in them. $300 is significantly more than $120 (what we paid for our Titan). And unless I can see some (really I'd accept even slightly dodgey testing) numbers telling me that the Britax is significantly safer than a cheaper seat - I can't justify cost.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Right, well $120 for the Titan and then another $200 for the Radian that you are going to buy down the road when your kid outgrows the Titan is $320, and you can get Marathons on sale for under $200. So really that arguement isn't valid.

I'm not telling you to buy a Britax. Nobody did. But paying $120 for a seat that would have lasted my kid 16 months (bought it at 2 months, outgrew it at 18 months) is way more expensive than a Marathon that would have lasted several more years.


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## KayleeZoo (Apr 8, 2003)

Quote:

I'm not telling you to buy a Britax. Nobody did. But paying $120 for a seat that would have lasted my kid 16 months (bought it at 2 months, outgrew it at 18 months) is way more expensive than a Marathon that would have lasted several more years.
Exactly.

And if you are 100% comfortable with the ethics of Evenflo, well, I guess you're good to go.

In case anyone reading this is interested in the most recent lawsuit that Evenflo lost regarding a child who died, here's the link: http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007..._587_26_07.txt


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## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
Right, well $120 for the Titan and then another $200 for the Radian that you are going to buy down the road when your kid outgrows the Titan is $320, and you can get Marathons on sale for under $200. So really that arguement isn't valid.

We plan to have a second child. Either the next kid will also be small - at which point that kid will last for along time in the Titan. Or the kid will be big - and will go in the Radian.

Quote:

I'm not telling you to buy a Britax. Nobody did. But paying $120 for a seat that would have lasted my kid 16 months (bought it at 2 months, outgrew it at 18 months) is way more expensive than a Marathon that would have lasted several more years.
We got screwed on the SafeSeat. Unless our next kid is big - we will never use the full capacity of it.

We bought the titan at 14 months. She will probably still be able to RF for another year or two - unless she suddenly decides to grow - which, given her patterns, is unlikely.

So - total we will have spent $200 on the Safeseat. $120 NOW on the Titan. And in 2 or 3 years (when we will be in a different place financially - and $100 won't be such a big deal) we can get another seat.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

I see. You are one of the lucky ones who will get great use out of the seat


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## PassionateWriter (Feb 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 









My child will not ride in a cosco/dorel/evenflo seat unless there is no other option.

-Angela


thats pretty much my time on it.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Consumer reports is NOT a good source for information on carseats.

-Angela

yet they (CR) think they are and b/c they are good w/ other things, ppl take their word for it.







I wish they would STOP publishing their "findings" (well they amended the last one, right?)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CharlieBrown* 
What a rude statement! Many people can't afford $200 for a car seat. They need that money for rent, food, and utilities.

for ppl who are on the edge for rent, food and utilities, i dont really think this is an issue for them. there are lots of places to get a free car seat (here WIC gives them out and i know Safe Kids does in some places). For others, though, who are chosing to eat out a few nights a week, or take a vacation further away, or spend their $$ on some other luxury...it really is a decision to be made. Im NOT suggesting anyone cancel a vacation to buy a car seat...however, its true that its a decision being made. And really, who can dispute that. If one is comfortable saying "I would rather eat out a few nights a week, or spend the extra money on a better car than a better car seat", then that is their choice. Im not one to judge that. It would not be my decision but its a decision being made every day in the US when parents opt for the $150 car seat instead of the $250 one..then hit another store at the mall and go out to eat afterward b/c its been a "hard day of shopping". I try not to go to BRU and places like that but each time i do, i see parents getting the cheaper car seats and loading up on other stuff in teh cart that is not needed for babies.

i personally consider my MW and car seats to be the major expenses of children...other than college funds. Im not finding them to be that expensive otherwise.


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## kijip (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
$120 NOW on the Titan. And in 2 or 3 years (when we will be in a different place financially - and $100 won't be such a big deal) we can get another seat.

The Titan used to cost a lot less than $120. It installed tight, however the harness adjuster is unreachable when the seat is RF at the correct angle in a number of vehicles. Evenflo was planning on taking it off the market when CR's faulty tests in unrealistic situations combined with the low price to give it a very high rating. The harness adjuster was still not accessible in a lot of cars in RF use...but Evenflo printed a bunch of "CR BEST Seat" stickers, smacked them on the box, started adding a touch more padding and nearly doubled the price of the seat.







I don't know if the new ones are exactly like the old ones shell and adjuster wise but as a Tech I could NOT get a usable install on this seat in many cars. 8 in 10 carseats are used incorrectly, paying more for those that are more likely to be used correctly seems reasonable to me. It sounds like this seat works for you car and child and that is great. Just chiming in on some Evenflo/Titan history.

Also, infant seats can be skipped. My son was out of his snugride at less than 4 months. If $$ is super tight, I tell parents to put the $$ from the infant seat towards the convertible instead, which are good from 5 pounds. Given the tendacy to overuse infant seats as all in one baby pods, its a route I wish more would take.


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## cognito (Nov 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kijip* 
Also, infant seats can be skipped. My son was out of his snugride at less than 4 months. If $$ is super tight, I tell parents to put the $$ from the infant seat towards the convertible instead, which are good from 5 pounds. Given the tendacy to overuse infant seats as all in one baby pods, its a route I wish more would take.

Many of the 'nicer' convertibles don't fit newborns well or at all for that matter. Not many newborns have the 10" torso a Britax would require. That leaves the Radian as far as the 'better' seats are concerned & that's only for average babies. My babies wouldn't have fit any of those seats at 6 14 & 6 10. The Recaros aren't really low enough either.

Convertibles require babies to be at least 5lbs & shoulders even with the lowest harness slots.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
And some of us are already stocking away every month for our babies. Here it costs $3000 for a homebirth. That's money that has to be saved before the baby comes.

Then there's education plans - those need to be started right away to get the full value out of them.

There are a plethora of costs that come with babies.

Personally - I don't want to spend a bunch of extra money to get a car seat that no one can provide numbers proving that it's actually significantly (in the statistical sense) safer.

I'm minored in statistics. I believe in them. $300 is significantly more than $120 (what we paid for our Titan). And unless I can see some (really I'd accept even slightly dodgey testing) numbers telling me that the Britax is significantly safer than a cheaper seat - I can't justify cost.











We don't have extra money. We don't have education plans for our kids right now. But you'd better be darn sure that they're in the safest seats I can find.

There are loans and jobs to pay for college. But they don't do any good if the kids aren't alive then.

And whether or not there is research saying one seat is safer than another, there are things that make a seat *statistically* safer- the features I mentioned among them.

Not to mention, you will still need to buy another seat when your child outgrows that one...

-Angela


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## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kijip* 
The Titan used to cost a lot less than $120. It installed tight, however the harness adjuster is unreachable when the seat is RF at the correct angle in a number of vehicles. Evenflo was planning on taking it off the market when CR's faulty tests in unrealistic situations combined with the low price to give it a very high rating. The harness adjuster was still not accessible in a lot of cars in RF use...but Evenflo printed a bunch of "CR BEST Seat" stickers, smacked them on the box, started adding a touch more padding and nearly doubled the price of the seat.







I don't know if the new ones are exactly like the old ones shell and adjuster wise but as a Tech I could NOT get a usable install on this seat in many cars. 8 in 10 carseats are used incorrectly, paying more for those that are more likely to be used correctly seems reasonable to me. It sounds like this seat works for you car and child and that is great. Just chiming in on some Evenflo/Titan history.

Also, infant seats can be skipped. My son was out of his snugride at less than 4 months. If $$ is super tight, I tell parents to put the $$ from the infant seat towards the convertible instead, which are good from 5 pounds. Given the tendacy to overuse infant seats as all in one baby pods, its a route I wish more would take.

Our Titan is installed 'correctly' in our Corolla. We can easily reach and use the harness adjuster. I do so everyday. We were unable to get a good install in the middle seat - so it's behind the driver seat.

Skipping an 'infant' seat for us wouldn't have worked. DD's torso was too short - we tried her in a couple at TRU - including all the "good" ones. She wouldn't have fit them. I don't have her specific torso measurements - but I'm sure it would have been at least when she grew out of 'newborn' sized clothes at 3 months. Probably later.

Also - I live in a winter city. She was born in November. I can't imagine the hell it would have been to put a newborn into a convertible at -40... That would really suck. It was hard enough to keep her warm in the bucket going from our townhouse to the car at the far end of the parking lot.


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## grumpybear (Oct 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kijip* 
So I do think that for many priorities play a part in the equation.


I agree. When we had our baby we really had to think long and hard about what we needed in terms of baby stuff and what we could do without. In order to get the more expensive SafeSeat for example, we decided that we could do away with the stroller.
When it came to getting our convertibles, it was the same thing... what can we trade off in order to afford the Radian?
One of the other things that are really important for me in choosing the carseat is the customer service that the manufacturer provides. I hear that Britax has excellent CS and IME, Sunshine Kids has been really easy to talk to as well. So in terms of getting value for money, I think CS plays a significant part.


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