# Possible Seperation Issues/Sore/Red/Irritated/Ballooning/Normal Development,etc.



## MCatLvrMom2A&X

*The Normal Development Of The Intact Penis*

The following information is to help answer some of the questions we see most often. In the course of the normal development of the intact penis some things *might* happen that may be alarming to those of us who have never been around an intact boy/man before. Some boys may have none of these things happen or one or more of them.

The following information has came from many sources including Internet searches along with personal experiences from myself and others. This is only a guide and isn't a replacement for medical care.

When the majority of boys are born the foreskin is fused to the head of the penis much like the fingernail is to the nail bed. As the boy ages the process of separation starts. This process can start shortly after birth or it may not be until the teen years and in some cases even into adulthood (some men go their entire lives never being retractable with no problems at all). There is no set age on when the foreskin will become or should be retractable just as there is no set age when a girl will start her first menarche. It appears that 2.5-3 years old is a really common time when a lot of the following issues appear. But as I mentioned before it can happen at any age.

The separation process in general does not happen all at once it happens over a period of time from weeks to months and in many cases even years. It can appear to happen over night for some boys. The foreskin will often have spots that are still attached even after the rest of the foreskin has released from the glans. This is not cause for concern, when the time is right the spot will release just like the rest of the foreskin has. Unless trauma has occurred in that case a skin bridge may form that may or may not need to be fixed by having it cut apart. But generally when the hormones of puberty hit these attachments will release on their own. This can cause a bit of soreness in the spot that will usually resolve within 24-48 hours.

When the separation process starts there are some things you may or may not see, these things include: ballooning, soreness, swelling & possibly some discharge.

*Ballooning*

Ballooning is a normal developmental stage and is not a cause for concern and does not require treatment, it is actually a sign that nature is doing it's job. Ballooning occurs when separation of the foreskin from the glans has started but the sphincter at the tip of the foreskin is still tight causing urine to pool under the foreskin. This is not harmful but it can be disconcerting to see it as the foreskin can balloon up quiet dramatically. It can last a short time or can come and go for months or years.

A child temporarily may report some discomfort or pain while urinating during this period. This occurs because the ballooning may tear at any residual connection to the glans. The discomfort will stop when separation is complete. The foreskin may still not be retractable at this point because the opening of the foreskin, sphincter, is still narrow. With increased growth and maturity, the ballooning will end when opening of the foreskin widens.

*Pain, Swelling & Redness*

Pain, swelling & redness can also go along with the ballooning or it can be seen without it. If either case 9 times out of 10 the pain and redness will resolve within 24-48 hours. If anything lasts longer than that the odds are higher that there is a infection present. It is important to note that if the problems last longer than the above mentioned time frame or you feel something is really wrong a trip to the Dr. is warranted since long term untreated infections can lead to scaring of the glans resulting in loss of sensation in those area's. Sometimes you may see small amounts of blood but it should not be much and it shouldn't last very long.

The most common infections are yeast or bacterial. The treatment for these is not at all difficult. Depending which is present treatment will either be anti fungal, OTC yeast medications like Monistat 7 day treatment (not the 3 day kind) and for bacterial infections OTC Bacitracin (a safer less reactive cream than Neosporin) can be used. Sometimes a prescription of oral antibiotics is required as well. If you do go the antibiotic route make sure to finish the whole prescription even if you son's penis looks healed in just a few days.

Neosporin is not recommended since some people react badly to it. It is important to figure out if you are dealing with yeast or bacterial since the treatment for bacterial infection can make yeast worse. So a swab culture is essential to figure out exactly what you are dealing with.

If you do take your child to the Dr. make sure that his foreskin is not pushed back on at all (See the Warning For Parents Of Intact Sons sticky at the top of the forum for more information as well as The Definition Of Retraction & Why it is BAD) If there is infection present this will make it easier to spread and cause more pain and trauma. To check to see exactly what pathogen is present a swab culture should be done. This is done with the long q-tip and a gentle rub of the very tip of the foreskin will pick anything up that is present without pushing on the foreskin at all.

*Helpful tips for dealing with pain*

Some things you can do to help if your son is in pain is letting him urinate in a cup of water or the bath tub this will dilute the urine so that wont sting. If your son is old enough you can tell him to retract just enough that the urinary opening is exposed so the urine doesn't go back under the foreskin. Long soaks in the bath with baking soda or a very small amount of Tea Tree Oil can also help sooth the pain.

If you are breastfeeding you can also put breast milk on at every diaper change to help kill off bad bacteria and help reestablish normal balance. Diaper free time and stripping your diapers if you use cloth can be very helpful as well. Especially if dealing with yeast.

The things to watch for that would indicate more than separation injury is going on are: severe swelling that keeps getting worse, fever, discharge with a foul smell or dark green in color, unusual redness accompanied by any of the things mentioned above. If your son is having trouble urinating he needs immediate medical help.

The reason the foreskin reacts so strongly sometimes when separation is happening is because it is a very vascular organ and much like the lips even a small bump can cause swelling and pain.

The normal appearance of the glans and inner foreskin is usually a bright red/purple color. This is often disconcerting to parents who see it for the first time and they think that it is irritated, when in fact it is how it should look. The washed out color of the glans on a circumcised boy/man is caused from the drying out and keritinization of the skin caused by being exposed and rubbed against the clothing.

*Smegma Pearl* (Picture) Note: The penis in this picture is being partially retracted something that should NOT be done. The pearl is on the right side near the base of the glans it is the very large whitish area.

Something you may also see is called a Smegma pearl. This is a whitish lump that can range in size from very tiny to pea size or larger. Smegma (the Greek word for soap) is a substance that consists of dead skin cells, body oil and other debris that clumps together forming a ball. It is not damaging and will work its way out once separation is sufficient for it to do so. It is not recommended that you try to massage it out or mess with it since this could cause tearing between the foreskin and the glans and result in pain and possible infection.

The time that Smegma pearls are seen is when separation has started. It may make the glans under the foreskin appear like it is crooked. When touched it may feel hard but slightly squishy. It may also look like a blister under the foreskin. If there is any pain in that area odds are that it is being caused by separation and not the pearl, since Smegma is not a irritating substance in itself, unless there is a foreign body in there like lint, that can cause a bit of irritation. For the most part nothing will get under the foreskin but sometimes it happens, especially if separation is well underway.

You may also see a milky whitish discharge. This is Smegma mixed with urine and is no cause for alarm. On occasion you may see a very large amount come out or it may just be a small amount.

Smegma can be the consistency of cottage cheese or it can be like liquid. It comes in many colors, pure white, yellowish, greenish, tan or a combination, it is often confused with pus. But the main thing between pus and smegma is that pus will have a really bad odor like an infection. While smegma may smell strong like unwashed genitals depending on how long it has been under the foreskin but not have a odor you would associate with sickness.

*Preputial Cyst* (Picture) Note: The penis in this picture is fully retracted something that should NOT be done.

There is also something called a Preputial Cyst that occurs on occasion. Sometimes known as a Keratin Pearl caused by dead skin cells accumulating under the top layer of skin on the glans. The appearance of swelling may occur sporadically as preputial cysts break through adhesions (push up against them) to allow separation of the prepuce, foreskin, from the glans. These whitish cysts are sometimes mistaken for pus due to infection, but they merely represent sterile collections of dead skin. It is a lot like a Smegma pearl but is not between the glans and foreskin but under the skin of the glans. In either case nothing special needs to be done.

*Foreskin was retracting now it is not?* (Taken from the Mothering Magazine Article by Dr. Paul Fliess)
Sometimes a previously retractable foreskin will become resistant to retraction for reasons that are unrelated to impending puberty. In these cases, the opening of the foreskin may look chapped and sting when your son urinates. This is not an indication for surgery any more than chapped lips. This is just the foreskin doing its job. If the foreskin were not there, the glans and urinary opening would be chapped instead. Chapping is most often caused by overly chlorinated swimming pools, harsh soap, bubble baths, or a diet that is too high in sugar, all of which destroy the natural balance of skin bacteria and should be avoided if chapping occurs. The foreskin becomes resistant to retraction until a natural and healthy bacterial balance is reestablished.

You can aid healing by having your son apply a little barrier cream or some ointment to the opening of the foreskin. Acidophilus culture (which can be purchased from a health food store) can be taken internally and also applied to the foreskin several times a day to assist healing, and should be given any time a child is taking antibiotics.

*Spraying While Urinating*

Many boys will spray at one time or another during the process of penile growth. If your son has entered a spraying phase, simply instruct him to retract his foreskin enough to expose the meatus when he urinates (if he can do so himself and without pain of course). This is a phase and generally wont last that long. But it might come and go several times during the separation process.

*Hygiene*

A question we see here a lot as well is if the toddler/child is retractable should the parent retract the foreskin to clean. The answer to this is no, if the boy is not old enough to do it himself then the penis should continue to be cleaned by washing like a finger from base to tip and swishing in the bath water. Once the boy is old enough that he can retract on his own then you can instruct the child to retract, rinse, replace in pure water, do not use soap on the exposed glans of the penis as this can cause pain, irritation and/or infection.

*Paraphimosis (not common but good information to have)*

Be sure to instruct your son to replace the foreskin over the glans so that it doesn't become trapped behind the glans. If this happens it is known as paraphimosis and it is a emergency situation that needs immediate attention. There are a few simple things that work most of the time to get it back in the proper position.

(*Warning!:* Actual medical pictures of reduction, genitals shown)

Here are two great article on reducing paraphimosis:

http://www.cirp.org/library/treatmen...osis/reynard1/

http://www.circumstitions.com/Paraphim.html (Drawings of reduction)

How the foreskin works animated pictures:

http://www.noharmm.org/anatomy.htm

http://www.geocities.com/painfulques...turalresources


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## carriebft

I love it so far---maybe we should PM a mod and see about consolidating the stickie "mothering articles on circumcision" into the web resources thread to make room for this new and important one.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X

Yes and maybe consolodating the foreskin issues sticky in with this one.


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## carriebft

Also- maybe talk about smegma pearls during separation?


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X

You are ahead of me carrie







I just finished a paragraph on it. I am still working and will keep adding as i go.


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## carriebft




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## yarngoddess

I love the way you are writing this article/post. Very easy to follow, understand , and in no way scary! Thank you for taking the time to write something REAL that us mom's of uncircs can understand.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X

I hope some others will chime in with ideas. Since I am sure I will forget something or word something wrong.

Any ideas at all on what to put in the disclaimer?


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## carriebft

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MCatLvrMom2A&X* 
I hope some others will chime in with ideas. Since I am sure I will forget something or word something wrong.

Any ideas at all on what to put in the disclaimer?

the mods might be able to let you know what the disclaimer should contain- there might be rules on that.

Also, I remember in YUlia's thread she asked if she should have him massage the smegma pearl out or try to push it down. Should that happen or not?


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X

From what I have been reading everything says just leave it alone and let nature take care of it. I added that in there.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X

Ok I think I covered everything but I am sure I missed something. Please anyone that has something to add let me know and I will add it.


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## mamajessica

Wow, thanks for writing this. I am expecting a little guy and have been reading everything I can. This is succinct and easy to read


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X

Thank you for the feedback yarngoddess & mamajessica









Thank you carriebft for the nudge you gave me to try my hand at writing it.


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## pdx.mothernurture

This is some stuff I put together for a sticky on another board, it might be useful here as well.

Jen

Quote:

Phimosis? Foreskin Development & Normal Age for Retraction

*HE'S INTACT---DON'T RETRACT!*

*"As a consequence of misdiagnosis and confusion of normal developmental narrowessness and non-retractablity with pathological phimosis, many unnecessary circumcisions are performed."*

Quote:

*What Is Foreskin Retraction?*

Sometime during the first several years of your son's life, his foreskin, which covers the head of the penis, will separate from the glans. Some foreskins separate soon after birth or even before birth, but this is rare. When it happens is different for every child. It may take a few weeks, months or years.

After the foreskin separates from the glans, it can be pulled back away from the glans toward the abdomen. This is called foreskin retraction.

Most boys will be able to retract their foreskins by the time they are 5 years old, yet others will not be able to until the teenage years. As a boy becomes more aware of his body, he will most likely discover how to retract his own foreskin. But foreskin retraction should never be forced. Until separation occurs, do not try to pull the foreskin back - especially an infant's. Forcing the foreskin to retract before it is ready may severely harm the penis and cause pain, bleeding and tears in the skin.

American Academy of Pediatrics

Quote:

*Retraction of the Foreskin*

At birth, the foreskin is usually attached to the glans, very much as a fingernail is attached to a finger. By puberty, the penis will usually have completed its development, and the foreskin will have separated from the glans.8 This separation occurs in its own time; there is no set age by which the foreskin and glans must be separated. One wise doctor described the process thus, "The foreskin therefore can be likened to a rosebud which remains closed and muzzled. Like a rosebud, it will only blossom when the time is right. No one opens a rosebud to make it blossom."9

Even if the glans and foreskin separate naturally in infancy, the foreskin Ups can normally dilate only enough to allow the passage of urine. This ideal feature protects the glans from premature exposure to the external environment.

The penis develops naturally throughout childhood. Eventually, the child will, on his own, make the wondrous discovery that his foreskin will retract. There is no reason for parents, physicians, or other caregivers to manipulate a child's penis. The only person to retract a child's foreskin should be the child himself, when he has discovered that his foreskin is ready to retract.

Mothering Magazine:

Quote:

The tightness of the foreskin is a safety mechanism that protects the glans and urethra from direct exposure to contaminants and germs. The tight foreskin also keeps the boy's glans warm, clean, and moist, and when he is an adult, it will give him pleasure. As long as your son can urinate, he is perfectly normal. There is no age by which a child's foreskin must be retractable. Do not let your doctor or anyone try to retract your child's foreskin. Optimal hygiene of the penis demands that the foreskin of infants and children be left alone.

Mothering Magazine:

Quote:

Avoidance of premature retraction. Care-givers and healthcare providers must be careful to avoid premature retraction of the foreskin, which is contrary to medical recommendations, painful, traumatic, tears the attachment points (synechiae), may cause infection, is likely to generate medico-legal problems, and may cause paraphimosis, with the tight foreskin acting like a tourniquet. The first person to retract the boy's foreskin should be the boy himself.3

The Development of Retractile Foreskin in the Child and Adolescent
A guidance for healthcare providers from Doctors Opposing Circumcision

Also available in a PDF leaflet.

Quote:

Almost all boys are born with narrow non-retractile foreskin which are fused with the glans beneath. This is a normal developmental physiological condition and is not a cause for concern. Some parents needlessly worry that the opening is not large enough.

Retraction of the foreskin should never be forced. It will retract when it is ready. There is no "right" age for retraction to occur.

A narrow non-retractable prepuce in boys is within the normal range of development and usually causes no problems. The prepuce usually will spontaneously widen until complete retractability is obtained. About 50-60 percent of boys at age ten do not have fully retractable foreskins.16 This is normal.16 After puberty, the percentage of boys with full retractability rapidly increases spontaneously.16

If a narrow or non-retractile prepuce becomes a problem, a wide variety of conservative alternative treatments to circumcision are are now available. Circumcision is an outmoded, radical, traumatic, disproportionate, unnecessary surgery for a minor problem.

Normal development of the prepuce: Birth through age 18
See Also: Intact Care Agreement

More great info, from the Canadian Paediatric Society:

Quote:

In general, there is inadequate recognition of the long period before the natural separation of the prepuce and glans is complete.96 Some authors still refer to the presence of "adhesions," when, in fact, separation has not yet taken place; _similarly, a nonretractible foreskin is still sometimes incorrectly diagnosed as phimosis._97

In a study by Rickwood and Walker98 involving 420 boys referred to their unit for possible circumcision, only 116 (28%) required the procedure. _They found no true phimosis in boys younger than 5 years of age. Most of the patients had developmental nonretractability of the prepuce, and their preputial orifice, although somewhat narrow, was supple and unscarred._ The authors compared this finding with data from the Mersey region of England, where phimosis was the most common indication for circumcision, accounting for 87% of the procedures, and where 390 of the 950 patients circumcised were younger than 5 years of age. _They estimated that approximately two thirds of these circumcisions performed in the Mersey area were probably unnecessary._
The false diagnosis of "Phimosis" in young boys

Conservative Contemporary Treatment of Phimosis

Can foreskin problems be treated without circumcision?

*The #1 rule for intact care is to leave it alone.

The first person to retract a boy's foreskin should be the boy himself.

Until then, just wipe it off like you would a finger or give it a swish of plain water in the bath.

Once he can retract it himself, all he needs to do is "RETRACT, RINSE, REPLACE" in the shower or bath.
*

A note about 'separation trauma':

Quote:

*Red, Swollen, or Inflammed Foreskin (by Frank)

Oh no! Your son has a very red, swollen or inflamed foreskin! Classic symptoms of a dread foreskin infection, right? Well, maybe but probably not. But, how do you know?

Often its not most of the time, it can be something called separation trauma that is a normal part of development in boys. The foreskin is exquisitely sensitive and very similar to the eyelids and lips. Just like a minor bump on the lip can cause it to get very red and swollen with what we call a .fat lip. the foreskin responds the same way to any physical insult. As the boy.s foreskin prepares for separation of the bond to the glans, it is not an even process with spots remaining adhered and areas around it fully released. With the boy pulling at it and with erections, these spots get pulled and slight tears in the inner mucosal foreskin or surface of the glans result and the response of the child.s body is redness or swelling. This redness or swelling can be significant and alarming but the situation is not serious. The symptoms will improve greatly or completely subside within 24 to 36 hours and everything will go back to normal just as a fat lip will. Watch your son for 24 hours from the first symptoms and if you see significant improvement, continue to watch

But, what if it is an actual infection? Simply, the symptoms will not subside within the 24 to 36 hour period. That is not something to be overly alarmed about as these infections are simply minor skin irritations and will cause no long term damage as long as they are treated promptly and treatment within a couple of days is well within the range of prompt treatment. The only thing to watch for is any restriction of the urine stream such as a weak stream or a fine thin stream. If this situation develops, immediate medical attention is needed.

If it does turn out to be an actual infection, insist that the doctor take samples for a culture. This is the only way to assure that the pathogen (bacteria or fungal) is accurately identified and the only way that you can be assured that the proper medication is prescribed. When the doctor takes samples for a culture, he/she will swab the end of your son.s penis with two cotton tip swabs, one for bacteria and one for fungals. (yeast) It will take two to three days for the results of the test to return and the doctor will probably give you a prescription for a medication based on a visual examination of the symptoms but you should call the doctor about 3 days later to make sure that the medication is effective on the particular pathogen. If not, you will be given a new prescription that is effective.

With the proper medication, you will see results within a couple of days. However, even with a culture, not all medications are effective all of the time and if you do not see a complete abatement of the symptoms within five days, call the physician for an alternate treatment. Although the symptoms disappear quickly, the prescription will probably instruct treatment for 10 days or so. Be sure to administer the prescription for the full time. Although the symptoms may be gone in two or three days, some of the pathogens may remain that can flare up again if the treatment is ended.

Frank

I grant free and unfettered permission to post this (Red, Swollen or Inflamed Foreskin?) any where on the internet ~Frankly Speaking~*

http://www.changa.org/circumcision/


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X

Thanks pdx.mothernurture Since we already have a retraction sticky I didnt feel it was needed to go into detail in this one about the dangers of retraction. I havnt added any links but that would be a good idea. If I could find one on smegma pearls I would like to add it but not a single search I did talked about a pearl. I was only able to find one site that talked about the cysts and the info on the page is outdated indicating dr should retract. So I only got the information on what the cyst is. Sucks sometimes information is hard to find.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X




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## carriebft

bump


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X

If you have anything to add please let me know. Also grammer corrections would be welcome as well. I want this to be easy to read and accurate. Thanks


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X

I wanted to bump this up for a poster.


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## LavenderMae

Great job!!


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X




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## Delta

+++


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## Soxfan Mom

Think this is a candidate for a sticky? Those of us with intact sons and non-intact DHs find this thread a giant relief.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X

Waiting on the mod. to talk to the powers that be to see if it is going to be a sticky.







:


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## carriebft

*bump*


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## carriebft

bump


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## taradt

Thank you for all this information...

This really should be a forum sticky. I am sure I am not the first parent freaked out by the bubble on her son's penis.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X

The last I heard from a mod. it was going to come up for consideration but that was several months ago.


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## thixle

BUMP!!!
Um, why isn't this a sticky yet?


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## tlh

this is good enough info to be a sticky.is it?


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## thixle




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## l_olive

bump


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## OMama

This was an incredibly helpful thread, that I only found when someone else shared it with me. I am in full support of it being a sticky as well! I looked at the current stickies and there doesn't seem to be anything similar.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X

If someone could would you go over the OP and check for spelling errors. I cant run a spell check with my computer and a few of the words look off to me. If you find one let me know and I will fix it ASAP.


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## Limabean1975

I just ran it through Word, here's what I have:

"Monistate 7" should be Monistat 7 (confirmed by googling that is the product name).

"Bacatracin" should, I think be Bacitracin.

Word turned up alot of anatomical and medical terms...I guess they are missing from Word's database. No actual typos or spelling errors!


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## Fellow Traveler




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## MCatLvrMom2A&X

Thank you so much for the spell check. Off to fix the errors.


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## Fellow Traveler




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## bean's mama

This so should be a sticky. I feel so much less panicky now that I have read this. Thank you!!!!!


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## naturegirl7

PLEASE make this a sticky!

It is full of fabulous information and just prevented me from having to post a redundant question (since I can never manage to get the search tool to work properly). DS was forcibly retracted by a devil woman claiming to be a ped a little over a week ago - I honestly panicked today when I noticed that it was red again, and that there was a milky/cottage cheesy drainage/discharge just inside the tip of his foreskin. I feared infection - but there is no smell, no real complaints of discomfort, no trouble urinating, etc - which had me wondering about how early smegma occurs - which you answered and then some!

thank you so much for compiling all that great info - it really does need to be a sticky!!!

any chance there are any links to more on Smegma. I found this one - about the benefits of smegma
http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org/inspect.htm


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## OMama

So many of us have asked now for this to be a sticky . . . mods, can you please tell us why it isn't being turned in to one? Is there a procedure or something that needs to happen to make it so? Just wondering! Thanks!


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## bean's mama




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## Fellow Traveler




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## Fellow Traveler




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## MCatLvrMom2A&X

I dont know why I didnt think of it before but I am going to put some links under the various topis for smegma pearl and prepetual cyst. If you have any links to pics throw them my way please. I have one of each but would be nice to have others.

I will do it tonight once I get home.

Done.


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## Fellow Traveler




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## PuppyFluffer

Hang tight folks, i'm working on it.

I'm on semi vacation due to expecting our third baby any time now. Today is my official due date!


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## Fellow Traveler




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## angie3096

Subbing because I want to be able to find this again when I need it. Thanks for all the great info.


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## Genesis

I was wondering, is it normal for the baby/child to bleed a little when retraction happens?


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X

It can be yes. Depending on a few factors 1)Did the boy help the retraction along a bit? 2)Where the spot was that came loose and how large a spot. Just like when you have a little split on your lip sometimes it will bleed a tiny bit while others it does not.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X




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## Fellow Traveler




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## latinalonestar

Is it normal for the line on the underside of the penis to be reddened?


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## thixle

Quote:


Originally Posted by *latinalonestar* 
Is it normal for the line on the underside of the penis to be reddened?

Absolutely, completely normal. It's called the *raphe* and is basically the "seam" where the cleft joined in utero. Totally normal to be red, change colors with body temp, etc.


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## latinalonestar

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thixle* 
Absolutely, completely normal. It's called the *raphe* and is basically the "seam" where the cleft joined in utero. Totally normal to be red, change colors with body temp, etc.

Okay, thanks!


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## Fellow Traveler




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## Fellow Traveler




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## l_olive




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## thixle

search feature isn't working


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## Lauren82

Bumping this up.


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## Fellow Traveler




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## Fellow Traveler




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## balancedmama




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## eclecticmama

Thank you so much for this! My first son(4th child) is 3.5. Last night he started complaining that his penis was sore. Today it has been a little red, a little swollen and more sore. I was getting concerned, since he has never had any issues at all. He's not retractable, so I didn't want to take him to the doctor for fear that they would try to force it. Besides, he is having no pain while urinating and part of the time it doesn't bother him at all. Thanks to this post I have learned about separation and that it can cause these very issues. I had no idea they could get sore as separation occurs. It makes sense now that I have read about it.

Thanks so much! Now I don't have to worry anymore.







:


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## phatchristy

I searched and found this thread again, I think we should have it up there as a sticky as well.


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## Fellow Traveler

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclecticmama* 
Thank you so much for this! My first son(4th child) is 3.5. Last night he started complaining that his penis was sore. Today it has been a little red, a little swollen and more sore. I was getting concerned, since he has never had any issues at all. He's not retractable, so I didn't want to take him to the doctor for fear that they would try to force it. Besides, he is having no pain while urinating and part of the time it doesn't bother him at all. Thanks to this post I have learned about separation and that it can cause these very issues. I had no idea they could get sore as separation occurs. It makes sense now that I have read about it.

Thanks so much! Now I don't have to worry anymore.







:

Hey I am glad you found this thread and found it useful. I would like to prevail upon the mods to try and sticky this thread. I know it's been talked about so lets do it.


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## phatchristy

I bumped this one up because a couple of days ago DH seemed to have some sensitivity around his penis. He was a little puffy and slightly pink, and a bit sensitive to the touch. Because I had seen a lump under his foreskin in the last month or so (and figured smegma pearl) I figured from that and from this thread that he was likely separating. DH honestly had NO CLUE what it was (being circumcied himself had no experience with this). Then, yesterday morning I changed him and found some tiny white granules in his diaper. Then, by the afternoon his penis looked completely normal again, and of course is still normal now.

I have to say, this thread (and this forum) is invaluable. It makes me sad to hear sometimes how some boy "had to be circ'd" because of ballooning, or because they had an "infection" when in reality balooning and releasing smegma pearls is part of the natural separation process. Their parents didn't know that what was happening was normal and had a deep sense of worry/panic. It's sad too that many doctors don't seem to know about the normal separation process and will be quick to tell them to circ.

Which is why this thread is so important. I know a lot about the intact penis, because of a lot of research I have done, and hanging out here. But, other parents I talk to don't do this research, don't have the knowledge of the intact penis and normal development. This thread and the previous one is invaluable to them, and no doubt has saved many boys from being unnecessarily circ'd.


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## OMama

Many of us have been asking for a long time now to make this a sticky . . . I'm still not sure why it doesn't happen . . .

This information has been so very helpful too us too. In case it never becomes a sticky, let's just keep this thread alive. I don't want it to get *lost,* especially for parents coming to this forum for the first time. Let's try to keep it on the first page.

Again, maybe someday it will be a sticky -- one can hope!


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## eclecticmama

ITA! Before I found this thread, the advice I had been given by a doctor over the phone was that I should have been pulling back the foreskin and cleaning under it since he was born!







I knew that wasn't right, so I came here looking for more answers. I looked for a sticky first and when I didn't find one, I did a search. I didn't find this thread in my search, but luckily found another thread where someone had a similar problem and they were linked to this thread. I am *so* glad I found this thread. I have had family pressures since my first son was born. My grandmother has worried since the day she learned we didn't circ that he was in for problems, since my grandfather "had to be circ'd" at age 7 due to problems. I'm willing to bet the problems were probably these same normal things that happen. I was getting pretty concerned myself before I found this thread. Sure enough, within 48 hours he was back to normal and no harm done. Had I taken him to the doctor, I don't know that they would have pushed me to circ, but had I taken him to his first doctor, she would have definitely retracted him. Luckily we now see a doctor that has two intact sons. I may have gotten the correct information from him, but it would have meant an unnecessary trip to the doctor.

Hopefully someday this will be a sticky, because it is truly invaluable information that I haven't ever read elsewhere.


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## phatchristy

Bumping up for someone else who needs it!


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## joanq

Thanks!


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## Fellow Traveler




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## clutterbug

I just stumbled upon this and what a great find! I just noticed what might be a little ballooning in my DS yesterday and although I had already kinda figured all was well, it was really good to read this as reassurance


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## Synchro246

You rock OP


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## fruitful womb

for Mama Mare


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## Fellow Traveler




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## robertandenith

thank you!!!!!

Those diaper irritations can be beaten by baking soda dips!!!







:


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## latinalonestar

bump


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## jessjgh1

This really needs to be stickied.

BTW, I'm not sure if its just my computer but the links for the pic. of the pearl doesn't look to be right (at least I don't see anything that looks like it) and its displaying a weird script (bringing up a message asking for an install).

Perhaps we could track down a more appropriate pic. to use?

and again, really needs to be stickied.

Jessica


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X

Thank you for letting me know about that link I am off to fix it. The reason it looks that way is because it is in Japanese or Chinese and it wants to install the program to translate it to english. I am moving the picture to my own website so that you can see the pic without the words.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X

OK got the picture up on another site along with another picture that some might find helpful.

Not sure what happened that it hasnt been sticked yet the last I heard from Puppy she was gonna bring it up at the next meeting but I know she has been super busy with her kids and new LO so I am thinking that is why.

Maybe you all could remind her via PM about it







: (dont shoot me puppy)


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## phatchristy

Bumping this up for someone new...


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## latinalonestar

bumpy


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## thixle




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## latinalonestar

bump


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## l_olive

bump


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## phatchristy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phatchristy* 
Bumping this up for someone new...









:


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## latinalonestar

bump


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## Marysmama

Thank you! I feel so relieved. My almost 4 yo son has been able to retract himself for a while. However, there is a small part that is still attached. And the opening of his foreskin seems narrow.

I'm so glad to know that this is normal.

Thanks, Gen


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## latinalonestar

bump


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## beka1977

bump


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## Fellow Traveler




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## Fellow Traveler




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## Lit Chick

Question -
My 1 year old's penis is slightly red at the tip. He is not statring to separate at all from what I can tell, and there is no swelling. He does not appear to have any pain or itch.
At his well-baby check, the ped was concerned and said it was a yeast infection and said I needed to treat with lotromin.
Ehhh?
She did handle his penis, not hurting him but she did sort of gently press down on the sides of it, so that the forskin was not loose - I hope that makes sense. I think she was looking for discharge, and there was none. It was not aggressive (I was all over her) and DS was not bothered.

I did not do anything as far as treatment goes. I think it might just be slight diaper irritation. He sometimes gets similar redness on his testicles especially after a long car ride (he's mashed up). He's in cloth when he's with me, and disposables during the day when my parents watch him.

I don't think it's an infection, because it seems to come and go. But of course now I'm paranoid. When should I worry?


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X

No need to worry the tip often shows redness from just rubbing in the diaper or a bit of poo getting on there.

She still shouldnt have touched his penis at all though what you describe is nothing to get upset over it just isnt needed and can cause potential problems.

Worry comes when you get redness, swelling, pain and discharge.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X




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## phatchristy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MCatLvrMom2A&X* 









bumping for a friend!


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## latinalonestar

bump


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## Fellow Traveler




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## latinalonestar

bump


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## Fellow Traveler




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## latinalonestar

Bump bump


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## robertandenith

bump


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## LavenderMae




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## Fellow Traveler




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## Fellow Traveler




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## robertandenith

bump


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## Night_Nurse

Bumping for a mama.


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## latinalonestar

Bumpy


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X




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## Fellow Traveler




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## l_olive

bump


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## Nikki74

Bumping again.

Thanks for the information OP. Recently I found a lump on ds' penis, which I was concerned about, but have now discovered due to this thread, that it's a smegma pearl. I'm so glad I'd already decided the best thing to do was to leave it well alone and not see the doc about it.

Thanks again for a really helpful thread.


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## Tanibani

A family friend in Ecuador has a 3 month old son (intact) and the doctors are recommending circumcision (appt is this Monday).

My cousin is visiting and we are Skyp'ing with them (video chats) every night. The dad is very willing to listen to me. I just need to present the argument.

My Spanish isn't great (arrggghh) so I need some info, ideally in Spanish for him to read.

Worse case, I can just have my cousin read your page and have her explain it to him.

Help!


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## Fellow Traveler

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tanibani* 
A family friend in Ecuador has a 3 month old son (intact) and the doctors are recommending circumcision (appt is this Monday).

My cousin is visiting and we are Skyp'ing with them (video chats) every night. The dad is very willing to listen to me. I just need to present the argument.

My Spanish isn't great (arrggghh) so I need some info, ideally in Spanish for him to read.

Worse case, I can just have my cousin read your page and have her explain it to him.

Help!









What is the reason? Check out this page: http://www.asnatureintended.info/circumcision.html

Sorry, Spanish is here: http://www.asnatureintended.info/la-...sioacuten.html


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X

I wish I knew someone who could translate the OP but I dont. Let me see if I can post a new thread asking for help.


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## Fellow Traveler

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MCatLvrMom2A&X* 
I wish I knew someone who could translate the OP but I dont. Let me see if I can post a new thread asking for help.

I do. I've sent the call.


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## robertandenith

I am so sorry







am i too late???


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X

If you would be so kind mama would you do the OP in spanish then add it here? If you have the time. I can then have it added to the one in the sticky.


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## robertandenith

I will do this yes but it may need to be posted in the Spanish boards, mothering has one! I will work on this..


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X

Thank you. If it does need to be in the Spanish board then I can add the link to the OP.


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## pantufla

Bumping for a friend!


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## WaturMama

That was just the education I was looking for. Thank you. (And bump!)


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## Holistic

I go to a pediatrician who is integrative and has been in practice for years. I took my 2 year old to see him after he had all of the symptoms you describe- pearls, redness, swelling, pain, etc., and it cleard up within 48 hrs. His penis looked normal when we saw the doc, and he said it was most likely a fungal infection. He had never heard of seraration trauma, and said that sounded fishy to him. (He has a lot of intact patients too.) However, I can't imagine so many of our children having the same symptoms if this didn't exist- so does anyone have any medical literature to back this up with so I can show it to our doctor? Thank you!


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X

http://www.cirp.org/library/hygiene/

Quote:

*The separation of the foreskin from the glans penis* Ballooning of the prepuce while urinating cannot occur until separation is underway. The occurence of ballooning indicates that separation has started.15 Babu et al. have proven that ballooning does not interfere with urination.21 Ballooning is a normal developmental stage and is not a cause for concern and does not require treatment.16 20 *A child temporarily may report some discomfort or pain while urinating during this period.* This occurs because the ballooning may tear at any residual connection to the glans. The discomfort will stop when separation is complete. The foreskin may still not be retractable at this point because the opening is still narrow. With increased growth and maturity, the ballooning will end when opening of the foreskin widens.
Here is one link that I have. I honestly dont think there is much out there on this since keeping babies intact is so new to the USA. Maybe google separation pain foreskin and see what pops up.


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## Caelib'sMom

I am feeling so sick to my stomach right now...I had to take Caelib (2.5 years) into the ER yesterday since he just wasn't kicking a week-long high fever and was irritable. He vomited and was really out of it. While there, they decided it might be a UTI - you know what's coming next....catheter...first nurse, very gentle...I told her his is intact and she said no problem - it just makes it harder, but don't worry - I won't retract. I was happy about that. She tried and there was just nothing in his bladder.

Later on (3 hours later) another nurse decided she would try. I explained about the foreskin and she just gave me the look. She did retract even though I was yelling to stop! Caelib was howling and moving all over which was just making it worse...the other nurse (first nurse) was even saying that was far enough and not to go any further.

Sample showed evidence of a UTI. He has taken two doses of the antibiotics, but is holding his penis and even saying his penis hurts. The foreskin is covering his penis like normal and I can't see any redness or swelling, but he is just in so much pain every hour or so. He wants his diaper off and then on. He keeps wiping himself with a cool cloth. I tried to get him in a bath but he sprung out and said it hurt!

Could it just be the UTI? the tenderness from two catheters? something about the retraction??

This has been the most traumatic thing ever - for both of us!

Coming for comfort....








Thanks in advance,
MJ


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X

It sounds like it is burning when he urinates because of the tearing. This is why you should always stand close enough to remove their hands physically if needed (not that you did anything wrong here the fault lies totally with the nurse who hurt your ds) just wanted to mention this for other mom'/s who may find themselves in your position.

You would get more responses if you posted this in a separate thread rather than at the end of this super long one.


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## Fellow Traveler




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## ambivamom

SOooo has anyone ever had a foreskin that was swollen so much that the hole seemed to disappear? Last night my ds, 13 months, had redness on his skin in the diaper area and his penis was swollen a bit at the tip...my usual approach is to sprinkle some acidohpilous powder on it but we were out; I just smeared everything with lanolin that I had added some tto into... this monring he is even more uncomfortable than yesterday and his penis is REALLY swollen! I am leaving him without a diaper as much as possible...I am trying to make sure he can still pee, though....going to get acidophilous...

REading through here my course of action seems to be watch for 24-36 hours, and be sure he can still pee. If there is no resolution by then go to ped and make sure they culture? If no peeing should I take him to the ER? (It is Sunday as I write this) Does this sound right?

Any other suggestions? ...Especially about pain/discomfort? He is so miserable...


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X

Yes if he has trouble urintating take him to the ER. For the pain if it is really bad I would give tylenol. When ds swelled that badly I did end up giving him some to make him able to sleep. Have you tried OTC monistat in case it is yeast? You can also try OTC bacatracin in case it is bacterial. I would do the monistat first and watch for improvement if you dont see any in about 12 hours try the bacatracin.


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## WaturMama

ambivamom, I'm so sorry that is happening to your little guy. That sounds tough to experience and watch. I hope he is better soon. I don't have anything to offer except that I think you might get more responses if you made a new thread--maybe in the health forum.


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## Night_Nurse

Bumping!


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## sailorscout

last night my 4.5 year old said his penis hurt, it did look a little red on the tip but thats about it, this morning he woke up to pee about 5 am and said his penis hurt (not pee related from what i can tell) and i noticed there was pus coming out of the tip, though after reading this i think it was smegma, i didn't know that it could be that liquidy consistency. i haven't noticed any since and he's currently taking a baking soda bath.

dh wants to take him to the doc today even though i'm horrified about it being retracted but i've prepped dh on not taking his hands or eyes off his penis! it sounds like separation trauma but i dont see any separation. hes acting normal, playful but says it hurts.

regardless what is wrong with him, this thread was very helpful and i'm super thankful, i had no idea any of this happened so i'm ready!


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## egmaranian

Bumping. Good info here.


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## goldingoddess

I love this thread. It just saved me from a night of lost sleep.


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## avismom

*PLEASE HELP MY SON SOONIts done yesterday and now there is yellow discahrge and pain*

I wish, I wish, I would have came here earlier. PLEASE PLEASE HELP

We trusted urologist but the urologist did it, yanked it on Friday. And now he is in pain with yellow discharge at the tip...is that normal? He has pain too though he can urinate. But on Friday we thought it will go away after couple of days as it has been forcibly pulled back and it's sore. But the pain increased yesterday and yellow discharge. It is not dark yellow, it is mixed with thick white smegma. What should I do? If I go to urgent case, I am so scared after reading here, how doctors don't know and might harm him more. PLEASE hELP SOON. Please give me a number where I can call to be sure.

He is 14 and his skin was attached only at one point behind the opening so didn't have any problems but my husband wanted it to open. So it was by consent and can't blame the doctor. But doctor should have told us not to do and it might cause pain and infection.

Now what can I do PLEASE HELP. His stomach is very weak and prone to vomiting which when once stars doesn't stop. So I am very SCARED to give him unnecessary medicines. I wish someone can help me soon.


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## joandsarah77

Tell your son to take a good long soak in a bath of plain water with half a cup of baking soda to half a bath. After the bath he can gently apply some organic coconut oil. If it hurts him to pee he can pee into a jar of warm water if that doesn't ick him out. 

Being retracted can cause infection because the skin tears and gives bacteria an entryway. Coconut oil does have some antibacterial properties. If his penis swells if he feels unwell or gets a temp it could be an infection. About the yellow, if it smells really bad its pus, if it smells more like unwashed genitals it's smegma. Smegma is fine pus is not. If it's an infection he needs to get a swab done and antibiotics. Do not allow them to retract him. 

I hope this helps him.

Just adding, that retraction can take up to 18 years of age and isn't really his fathers affair. It only retracts for sex anyway. If need be some steroid cream and gentle stretching can be done.


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## Helimama

Hi, thank you so much for the information. But I have a question. My 4 year olds penis is very swollen from top to bottom. I am pretty sure it's because he wore brand new underwear that has not been washed yet. I normally never put a new item on him without washing it first but was pressed for time..... anyhow it doesn't hurt so far but he is touching it more tonight. It's day 2 now. So I figured it's more of an irritation. What do you think? Also would it be safe to put coconut oil on it? Thank you in advance


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