# Almost 4 year old only child not interested in friends, should I be concerned?



## mtbmomma (Feb 12, 2010)

I know this is common for toddlers, but I thought this changed around 3-4. DD really doesn't have an interest in friends. She begs me not to have friends over for playdates because she doesn't want to share her things, and when we have them she spends the whole time anxious someone is going to touch something she doesn't want them to etc. She likes going to playdates at other people's houses, but only so she can play with their toys. We go to playgrounds all the time, and she has zero interest in playing with the other kids. We have had lots of discussions about this and she always says, "I like playing with other kids, but I like playing with you and daddy more." Today, after having a friend over for a playdate, she told me, "My friends aren't my friends, you and daddy are my friends".

I am a SAHM and we were planning on homeschooling, but this makes me nervous. I know about the homeschool socialization myth, but how does that apply to a child that doesn't want to socialize (btw, she loves talking with adults and flocks to them over me. She is also pretty advanced, and most of her "friends" are younger than she is anyways). I wouldn't call her an introvert, though she is shy with strangers and in group situations. Is this just a stage she will grow out of, or her personality? Should I try to make friends with moms with slightly older kids (I am a bit of an introvert, so that isn't necessarily easy)?

I guess my main question is, do you think I should push the playdates if she doesn't care about them. I was number four in a family of five kids and my husband also grew up in a family of five, so we aren't really sure about how this parenting an only child thing works. If she had siblings I don't think I would be as concerned, but since she doesn't it seems like I need to get her out and playing with kids. At the same time it seems wrong to push her when she has said many times that she isn't interested. Anyone BTDT, or can relate?


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

I feel so different about this and find most don't agree with me- but, NO way would I be doing what you are doing.

I don't feel playdates are helpful at this age- you are the one picking her friends, you are picking children younger than her and who you want- if this was you would you like someone to do that to you?

Why rush things here? *She is 4*, life is not measured by the number you have and at 4 is happens to be just fine to have NO friends! It won't effect her life in any way- 4 is young, she is meeting and socializing at public places with others, that enough right now, that's just fine!

Let her alone, if she likes adults- that's OK too!

As she ages she will change, she will go to events (If you HS like most do you will meet others) and let her pick who she likes and when she feels she wants them over, then it is the time.

Some people NEVER like others touching their things- and that is OK too.

As she ages, she can see people and children she likes at non home events where she is not placed in a position to have her things touched- look at it this way, do you cook or do crafts? would you like someone touching your things? Seeing others at a park is fine and enough and when she ages she will change and let it happen at it's pace, not yours.

I know sooooooo many seem to fixated on the "playdate" and I don't get the need for it at all. It forces pressure on a child and forces them to not be who they are- let her pick as she ages and feels the need for this interaction.


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## Emmeline II (Feb 16, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtbmomma*
> 
> I know this is common for toddlers, but I thought this changed around 3-4. DD really doesn't have an interest in friends. She begs me not to have friends over for playdates because she doesn't want to share her things, and when we have them she spends the whole time anxious someone is going to touch something she doesn't want them to etc. She likes going to playdates at other people's houses, but only so she can play with their toys. We go to playgrounds all the time, and she has zero interest in playing with the other kids. We have had lots of discussions about this and she always says, "I like playing with other kids, but I like playing with you and daddy more." Today, after having a friend over for a playdate, she told me, "My friends aren't my friends, you and daddy are my friends".
> 
> I am a SAHM and we were planning on homeschooling, but this makes me nervous. I know about the homeschool socialization myth, but how does that apply to a child that doesn't want to socialize (btw, she loves talking with adults and flocks to them over me. She is also pretty advanced, and most of her "friends" are younger than she is anyways). I wouldn't call her an introvert, though she is shy with strangers and in group situations. Is this just a stage she will grow out of, or her personality? Should I try to make friends with moms with slightly older kids (I am a bit of an introvert, so that isn't necessarily easy)?


It could be that she is mature for her age and just doesn't find her peers interesting playmates. I read a thread on this somewhere here but I can't remember which board. Homeschooling can work well for this if you have a homeschooling group with older children.

Another possibility, which is the case for my ds, is that he has social skills deficits (social reciprocity and pragmatics) seemingly related to ADHD/Aspergers. Ds tends to get along better with younger children and older children than peers. He also has a tendency to focus on toys rather the people when he goes to neighbors' houses (we never did playdates though). Ds does like to play with other children but he also values his alone time.

Quote:


> I guess my main question is, do you think I should push the playdates if she doesn't care about them. I was number four in a family of five kids and my husband also grew up in a family of five, so we aren't really sure about how this parenting an only child thing works. If she had siblings I don't think I would be as concerned, but since she doesn't it seems like I need to get her out and playing with kids. At the same time it seems wrong to push her when she has said many times that she isn't interested. Anyone BTDT, or can relate?


I don't see how she would benefit from playdates as you currently do them. It may work better to find situations where she could naturally gravitate towards the children she does prefer, such as a homeschool group with a good age range, a mixed age range schooling situation, or community groups that don't strictly age segregate (like children's theater/chorus)--though some of this may not be possible until she is a little older.


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## tbone_kneegrabber (Oct 16, 2007)

The big difference between playing with parents/adults and playing with kids is that adults have very little vested interest in the play. If the kid wants the blue car what do I care I'll take the red car. The kid wants to be mommy and I'm the baby, ok. The kid wants to build a zoo out of blocks let's do it!

But when there is another kid that kid has much stronger feelings about play. They may really want the blue car too. They might want to the mommy or not even want to play family. They want to build a house not a zoo. Etc etc etc.

When your dd plays with you she is probably in charge of what you play, how you play, and when to change the game because frankly adults don't really care that much. You aren't going to burst into tears and fall on the ground because you wanted a turn with the blue car, ya know.

Relationships with other kids require very different skills. I have seen this phenomenon with many, many kids (as a parent, teacher, and friend of people with kids).


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## tbone_kneegrabber (Oct 16, 2007)

I also think it is, hmm I don't know what words I want to use, ? low expectations? to assume that a kid isn't 'interested' in a same age or younger peer because they are 'mature.' my ds goes to a mixed aged school ages 2-6 are all together and it is expected that all the kids play together. Kids need to learn how to modulate there play and interactions depending on their playmate but older kids are not permitted to exclude younger kids. I find in fact the more 'mature' the kid the easier for them to play with kids of all ages.

It is something the kids have to practice and learn to do but I think the value in being capable of interacting positively with people of all ages is really important.


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> to assume that a kid isn't 'interested' in a same age or younger peer because they are 'mature.' my d.s. goes to a mixed aged school ages 2-6 are all together and it is expected that all the kids play together. Kids need to learn how to modulate there play and interactions depending on their playmate but older kids are not permitted to exclude younger kids


I have such issues with force like this- we don't do this in the real world with adults, we do not force adults to *play* with others they do not get along with but yet we want children to do this-why?

It is not the same as working with a mixed age groups, that is where school and HS groups come into play- at a much older age. We are asking children to form friendships and play with others and not allowing them to form them on their own at their own pace and with their own comfort level, instead we set up adult expectations often based on adult formed groups with the main interest of those adults. Just because you like the parent doesn't mean your child will love the other child- that goes for cousins too, yet so many don't get this.

Children can learn how to be kind, nice and polite to other children without being placed into forced play setting.

I know for the two I have, one liked mixed age groups the other hated it!

anytime you force a situation that clearly is causing stress is not good IMO if she enjoys being a setting (outside of a organized playdate) and other children are around that is fine, I'm sure she will find what makes her comfortable - you did not state that you do much with older children, maybe she would thrive more in older settings

my DS can't stand being around children who do not talk much- one of the reasons he turns to much older children or adults- he likes vocal interaction, he is vocal when he plays and will not play with a child that does not communicate and reciprocate with him

Quote:


> If she had siblings I don't think I would be as concerned, but since she doesn't it seems like I need to get her out and playing with kids


also not all children enjoy having siblings, some don't right from the start and never out grow it, many only children grow up very happy to not be around lots of others


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

at that age dd went to dc and had a couple of good friends.

but at home she didnt want to really play with other kids. it was the mature issue. luckily i had a couple of friends - kids at heart who would give her the run for the money. just coz she was a kid they wouldnt make it easy for her.

in school also dd didnt really make friends - she 'played' with kids only coz she had to - not coz she wanted to.

we changed schools adn finally she met some like minded kids and boom. she was willing to have playdates adn sleepovers.

now at almost 10 she would rather hang out with kids than adults. though even today she can sit amongst adults and hold her own.


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## pbjmama (Sep 20, 2007)

I think your expectations are a bit off for a 4 year old. She may or may not come around to like playing with friends. I'm an only child and although I went to school most of my interaction beyond that was only with adults. I didn't do day camp over the summer or anything. I enjoyed reading, playing by myself, art, etc. And I am very extroverted. That said, my ds is very introverted and it was a struggle for me to identify that and adjust to his preferences.


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## faithsstuff (Nov 30, 2008)

I was just reading about this in Playful Parenting. There was a study cited with kids of this age that they would chose to play with their parents over kids their age. I have an almost 4 year old as well and sometimes he needs to play where he can be in charge. That's how they work out issues/fears/assimilate new learining, through play. Why do kids want to do that with other kids, they don't know how to deal with conflict yet. I wouldn't worry.

And just a note from personal experiance, I can't think of one really good behavour ds has picked up from playing with other kids his age or younger. He learned to spit, play violently and tease from other kids his age. I'd rather he play with us for a little while longer


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## mckittre (Jan 15, 2009)

Mine is only 3 and a half, but he doesn't play with other kids either. I do "playdates" anyway, not for him, but because I like hanging out with my friends who are parents. I don't make a big deal out of whether he plays with the other kids or not in those situations, but I figure he's at least exposed to them that way - and can decide to play if and when he wants to.


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## mtbmomma (Feb 12, 2010)

Wow, thanks for all the great replies, sorry I am so late chiming in here, we were on vacation. Everything said makes a lot of sense. tbone_kneegrabber, I was also a teacher and I guess that is where my perspective on this age group comes from. In most of my 3-4 year old classrooms, the kids enjoyed playing together and seemed eager to see one another. We just spent a week with cousins of similar ages and DD was so overwhelmed with having to share space/toys by the end of the week. I really think after observing her more that it is a mixture of age/personality. Which is fine by me, and I too would prefer to stay away from the play dates.

Faithsstuff, that is an interesting point, I do think she likes to be in charge, but generally DH and I tell her that if we are going to play with her than we want a say in what is happening too, and she is always fine with that. I have seen her play really well with older kids too, 6-8 year olds, and she doesn't mind them being in charge, so I don't think that is really the cause.

Reading all of your comments is actually such a relief to me. We have moved around a lot in the past 4 years, and it seems like all my "friends" are only my friends because we are all moms. These are great women, but we really don't have anything in common outside of being moms. I would love to seek out some friends with similar interests to my own, but I felt like I needed to keep these relationships going for DD. I guess I am just trying to control things too much, which I have a habit of doing. We go to parks and other public events all the time, and she will attend groups/classes or school when she is older so I'm sure she will make friends when she is ready/needs to.

Thanks for all the great advice, it gives me a lot to think about.


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## KCMichigan (Jul 21, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> I don't feel playdates are helpful at this age- you are the one picking her friends, you are picking children younger than her and who you want- if this was you would you like someone to do that to you?
> 
> ...


I would comment on the fact that yes playdates are very helpful to social growth at age 4. It is a great time of social change for kiddos. They go from parallel play to interactive play. Sometimes that transition is very rocky. But the dynamic is different for interactions with younger/older/adults/same age peers. There are different social cues, interactions, and expectations for each group and that is very complicated for the 4-6 yr old to navigate. It can be overwhelming and confusing-- depending on personality, different kids handle it differently (avoidance of kids, enjoyment, wary caution, enjoy one on one but not large groups, etc). Also a young 4 will be more along the transition than a 4-turning 5 yr old.

Are you Homeschooling or going to public school? If you are going to public school- there is a whole set of social skills kiddos will need to develop as soon as school starts. It can be overwhelming to some kids. But at 4- there is one year before K starts. If you are HS, you may want to participate in HS groups that would require interaction with mixed age or same age peers. It will not be all parent-child led that preschool activities tend to be.

Yes, if she likes adults that is OK. But is is just you and your DH or other adults too? At 4, kiddos need to be exploring social skills that broaden their standard exposure. Their world gets bigger and some of that is learning how to interact with other people (of all ages).

Most kids have to interact with a lot of kids before they really find out what kind of personality works for them and their play style. It is a bit of trial and error to be honest as they learn, they cant learn what people they want to play with if there is no exposure.

But I agree with Serenbat, that keep the same-age peer interactions away from home. To young children- someone else touching their 'stuff' is much more threatening than playing in a community place or 'neutral' location. Try a playground, play room, preschool activities, etc. Keep it short and simple.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Emmeline II*
> 
> It could be that she is mature for her age and just doesn't find her peers interesting playmates. I read a thread on this somewhere here but I can't remember which board. Homeschooling can work well for this if you have a homeschooling group with older children.
> 
> Another possibility, which is the case for my ds, is that he has social skills deficits (social reciprocity and pragmatics) seemingly related to ADHD/Aspergers. Ds tends to get along better with younger children and older children than peers. He also has a tendency to focus on toys rather the people when he goes to neighbors' houses (we never did playdates though). Ds does like to play with other children but he also values his alone time.


I agree. One of my DDs has social skills deficits. It reflected in her non-willingness to play with same age peers (except her twin). She actively went to adults or older/younger kids (babies). Kids her age were overwhelming and unpredictable which for her personality made her nervous. She was too busy they would do XYZ to enjoy playing with them, she had trouble navigating the social cues that her peers displayed. Through social skill play, play acting, and lots of little bits of exposure she now enjoys her peers at age 6- though when under duress does retreat to playing with familiar adults. She also likes to play alone a lot more than other kids her age. That is OK, but experience has given her some skills to make it a less unpredictable and stressful time. She has a few select friends she enjoys, but it took time and trial/error to find out who she found playing with more enjoyable.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tbone_kneegrabber*
> 
> The big difference between playing with parents/adults and playing with kids is that adults have very little vested interest in the play. If the kid wants the blue car what do I care I'll take the red car. The kid wants to be mommy and I'm the baby, ok. The kid wants to build a zoo out of blocks let's do it!
> But when there is another kid that kid has much stronger feelings about play. They may really want the blue car too. They might want to the mommy or not even want to play family. They want to build a house not a zoo. Etc etc etc.
> ...


 This really can have a big impact. A child playing with an adult knows that although an adult may have preferences, they will be polite, not grab, and respect the childs emotions/property. Other kids may or may not do those things.

Playing with adults (espec. familiar ones!) is comforting and predictable. Non-threatening.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> I have such issues with force like this- we don't do this in the real world with adults, we do not force adults to *play* with others they do not get along with but yet we want children to do this-why?
> 
> ...


How will kids learn to be polite to other kids if they do not interact with them?

I would not 'force' a playdate that obviously is very stressful. But I would say that kids and adults learn through new situations-- low levels of stress are OK. They expand comfort zones and expose kids to new experiences. Some kids are more open to 'change' and others actively resist it.

I agree to make her comfortable- but also to scaffold on what she is OK with. If she is OK at a playground. Start there. Kids on the playground should be able to positively interact with other kids at 4 (esp. late 4), not always with great finesse, but they should be trying out fledgling social skills (how to ask to play, playing/talking to other kids, etc)

Yes, kids will be in situations (much like adults sometimes) that they have to interact with kids they do/dont like. In a public school setting, a HS activity, a preschool class, swim/dance/gymnastics class, etc there is likely to be kids that clash personality wise with other kids. Kids need to learn the tools and skills to get along for that time period so they can learn/participate.etc.

And yes, some kids are introverts and simply enjoy their own company. But they need to learn to get along in groups and it should be done in small developmentally appropriate ways.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *faithsstuff*
> 
> I was just reading about this in Playful Parenting. There was a study cited with kids of this age that they would chose to play with their parents over kids their age. I have an almost 4 year old as well and sometimes he needs to play where he can be in charge. That's how they work out issues/fears/assimilate new learining, through play. Why do kids want to do that with other kids, they don't know how to deal with conflict yet. I wouldn't worry.
> 
> And just a note from personal experiance, I can't think of one really good behavour ds has picked up from playing with other kids his age or younger. He learned to spit, play violently and tease from other kids his age. I'd rather he play with us for a little while longer


Yes, I agree that learning to deal with conflict at 3-7/8 is a fairly complicated and individual process. But they also learn from observation of peers actions, they see peers learning alongside them and that is much different than learning from an adult. Not better or worse- just different.

My kids have learned a lot of good behaviors from other kids. They have observed friends being very caring toward little siblings (my DDs do not have any younger siblings) and that is wonderful for them to observe. They also have seen their peer express empathy and comfort to one another. They have seen peers sharing toys, food, and art supplies..Again, a child observing a child doing these things is very powerful.

Simple explanation that a toddler is young and cant talk/move/wait etc very well yet often suffices for explanation for unwanted behaviors that are witnessed. That is is something DDs learned at that age is good- they can see the social growth they have made and it is is a learning experience.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mckittre*
> 
> Mine is only 3 and a half, but he doesn't play with other kids either. I do "playdates" anyway, not for him, but because I like hanging out with my friends who are parents. I don't make a big deal out of whether he plays with the other kids or not in those situations, but I figure he's at least exposed to them that way - and can decide to play if and when he wants to.


That is a good idea. At 3.5 some kids wont play with others from a developmental viewpoint. But they observe and can participate as they want with the opportunity to do so is there.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtbmomma*
> 
> In most of my 3-4 year old classrooms, the kids enjoyed playing together and seemed eager to see one another. We just spent a week with cousins of similar ages and DD was so overwhelmed with having to share space/toys by the end of the week. I really think after observing her more that it is a mixture of age/personality. Which is fine by me, and I too would prefer to stay away from the play dates.


As an adult, a week with lots of relatives is overwhelming!

I taught preschool and most of the kids liked to interact, but always a few were observers and liked to play alone. BUT but age 4.5 most of them had some rudimentary social skills in place to play with other children. In a preschool setting, it was a safe structured neutral environment that allowed kids to explore interactions and skills slowly. They have learned to wait in line, wait a turn, take turns speaking, share their experiences, and work with peers to complete a task (build a tower, puzzle, collage, etc). Basic life skills that come with practice either in a preschool setting, a HS group setting, or community events.

She may do best one on one for her personality and also in a short bits and a non-personal space.

A child used to just themselves and other adults in the house may find a bunch of people all at once a bit of sensory overload!

Have fun this Fall/Winter! 4 is a fun age ( one of my favorites to teach!)-, I hope you and your DD have a great year!


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> I would comment on the fact that yes playdates are very helpful to social growth at age 4. It is a great time of social change for kiddos. They go from parallel play to interactive play. Sometimes that transition is very rocky. But the dynamic is different for interactions with younger/older/adults/same age peers. There are different social cues, interactions, and expectations for each group and that is very complicated for the 4-6 yr old to navigate. It can be overwhelming and confusing-- depending on personality, different kids handle it differently (avoidance of kids, enjoyment, wary caution, enjoy one on one but not large groups, etc). Also a young 4 will be more along the transition than a 4-turning 5 yr old.
> 
> Are you Homeschooling or going to public school? If you are going to public school- there is a whole set of social skills kiddos will need to develop as soon as school starts. It can be overwhelming to some kids. But at 4- there is one year before K starts. If you are HS, you may want to participate in HS groups that would require interaction with mixed age or same age peers. It will not be all parent-child led that preschool activities tend to be.
> 
> ...


Quote:


> How will kids learn to be polite to other kids if they do not interact with them?


sorry but you missed the entire point of my post!

all can be achieved without an organized "playdate" same way children use to do sports (we called it sand lot-parents stayed out of it-period) and learn to interact with others- *without the over interaction organization planned out orchestrated stress-filled parent generated event they have become*

nowhere did I even say nor imply that there is to be no exposure

I find it so odd that children use be able to develop (become social and polite) and become wonderful adults without "playdates" at age 4.

There was a time you waited until the child initiated the desire (not the parent) to have another child come over (to their space!) to play and that typically did not occure at age 4.

ETA- does not come across like the OP is in any sheltering her child or keeping her away from others and not depriving her of interaction - seems IMO like the post is about the need at the age given the reaction


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## KCMichigan (Jul 21, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> sorry but you missed the entire point of my post!
> 
> ...


I guess I interpret 'playdate' differently.

In the culture I grew up in they have existed in some format for years and years. And I highly doubt they were all child initiated. Most were families/neighbors/friends assisting with childcare, developing adult friendships, family events, shared economic reasons (farming), preschool, church nursery, etc.

At age 2/3/4 : we often meet up with other young families and their same age kids to talk (some were coworkers, some childhood friends of DH and I, neighbors,etc).We had the kids in the backyard or living room and grown-ups chatted, encouraged good manners, and kept an eye out but let the kids play- only getting involved if needed. Sometimes playing by themselves and sometimes playing with each other.

And historically-- most children of all cultures and time periods have 'playdates' (wanted or not by the child) before age 4. Families were bigger, buildings often housed multiple families-- from a anthropological viewpoint, very few (I am sure there are some but none I know of) cultures did the vast majority of families have children with child-only led contact with other children (siblings have to cope with sharing toys/belongings, sharing parental time, and an infraction of personal boundries all the time). They have to learn comfort levels/ and develop skills to interact with other children on a regular basis.

Many moms/grandmothers I know also babysit, nanny, or share childcare (which is also common in many cultures) where most children are 4 and under. The child does not really get a say in who they share space with in these situations. It is just a way of life- and like any other situation the children adjust accordingly and learn the social norms for each group they are placed in. Some kiddos will enjoy the experience more than others, but all of them will gain skills from positive meaningful interactions with other children around the same age on a regular basis. Repeated exposure to the same child/children over and over again is much different than a casual random encounter.

Playdates: even at ages 2/3 were loosely structured. I never once in my life have 'organized' a playdate beyond "Hey want to meet at the park/my house on X day?" Some were initiated by my kids when they were old enough, but still at age 6 some are organized by me and some by the kids. At age 2,3,4 : it really helped them also to build a world view on other kids, other families (that may or may not look/function like ours) and I initiated most of not all of the playdates at younger ages. We found families/kids that interacted well with our family and some that did not (through no fault of their own- just personality clashes or philosophy differences).

I think the interpretation of the word 'playdate' itself is where we must differ.


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## Shami (Oct 9, 2007)

Did not have time to read all...will do it later. Serenbat, learning how to play well with others at any age (over the age of 3) is beneficial and translates later to working well with others as an adult.

Will return later.


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> Serenbat, learning how to play well with others at any age (over the age of 3) is beneficial and translates later to working well with others as an adult.


wow- snarky!

guess you did not read what I or others have wrote- even the reply from the OP

Quote:


> I guess I interpret 'playdate' differently.
> 
> In the culture I grew up in they have existed in some format for years and years. And I highly doubt they were all child initiated. Most were families/neighbors/friends assisting with childcare, developing adult friendships, family events, shared economic reasons (farming), preschool, church nursery, etc.
> 
> ...


again, no place did I say shelter this child like you are implying I have - did you read the other post not only from me but the OP and others?









Quote:


> Which is fine by me, and I too would prefer to stay away from the play dates.


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## Shami (Oct 9, 2007)

Serenbat, I did not intend to be snarky. I was in a hurry. Sorry. Now that I have read all the posts, it doesn't change how I felt when I read your posts, which quite frankly sounded like a rant against playdates because they are *forced*. And all of your bolding makes me feel like you are raising your voice.

After reading kcmichigan's post, I realized that we have different ideas of playdates. I have never seen or heard of my friends forcing kids to play together. We just get together to talk and the kids can play or not.

Once again I have to go...baby crying.

ETA: I also learned quickly that playdates at my house were not fun for dd or me. So we go to parks or other peoples' houses. I would never have dreamed to force my kid to share and let others play with her stuff when she's clearly not developmentally ready for it. Now that she's almost five she's much better with other kids coming to our house.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Kids that age are still very young and so she might come around. I would relax about it, but I think you could try more unstructured play, like just taking her to the park to play when the park is busy, with no expectations about what happens, and see if she warms up a bit to other kids. She could just be an introvert, I I don't personally believe that is learned. I think it's an innate thing for some people. But even if she's an introvert, she might warm up a bit to playing if the expectations are lowered and there's no pressure. Going to the park is nice because you can sit and watch her go down the slide or whatever and just let things happen naturally. Don't feel like you have to "set her up" wtih other kids there or try to get her to play with kids or anything. I'd back off and let her get things going on her own.

Anyway, it sounds like you have a few differing opinions, so I'll throw mine in the mix and hopefully something between all of us you'll get some ideas.


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> I felt when I read your posts, which quite frankly sounded like a rant against playdates because they are *forced*. And all of your bolding makes me feel like you are raising your voice.


you took what I wrote out of context

*force* (and bolding does not mean yelling either) never seems to turn out well when applied to a child in most cases and most circumstances- at 4 or 3 or even 5 most children are not picking the play situation, the parent is and most children live (at least at that age) to please the parent and they look to the parent and go along with it- many later in life do express just how much they despised the forcing of playing with some they did not like but could not say no to the parent at the time- many have lasting impressions of it

Quote:


> Serenbat, learning how to play well with others at any age (over the age of 3) is beneficial and translates later to working well with others as an adult.


another myth also go to those who feel that somehow children are not being prepared if they do not play together in a contrived atmosphere - no where does it come across that this child is not interacting with other (even those her own age) or that I somehow do not understand this- I would thank you to not put words in my mouth as you are implying it towards me

the OP's child in an only child and as others pointed out and it seems the OP also realizes that her child does not do well in playdates as they have been- it's really good that the OP can see that it does cause stress in her child and she seems to doing what is correct for her child

somehow this myth that a child must live up to an adult expectation (at this young age) is just flat out not true- there are many children that do daycare, next preschool and even public school and grow up to not want or desire to be social with their peers- this goes to the whole myth of socialization- really I have found it has nothing to do with how much or what kind is viewed as best (yet so many preschools are making money selling the myth) it really comes down to *personality*- some hate it as a child and no matter what you do, they grow up to not want to be social

there are many way to have contact and avoid stress on children who clearly (like in the case of the OP's) are not happy with playdate situations- and it really is OK to want to be with adults now and chances are she will turn out just fine not having spent hours playing with her peers-if she has a parent (and this certainly seems the case with the OP) she will know what is best for her child and it seems like now is not the time to push this on her-IMO

Quote:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> > DD really doesn't have an interest in friends. She begs me not to have friends over for playdates because she doesn't want to share her things, and when we have them she spends the whole time anxious someone is going to touch something she doesn't want them to etc.


with only children (this is not the case for all but for many) the mere thought that as a small child you want others in your personal space interacting with your personal things is just something that unless you have experienced it...... you do not know how this child really feels!

it is vastly different from playing at a daycare/preschool knowing those toys are for all to share and they do not come home with you-many children can do that with no issue but place them in the setting of an at home playdate and it is nothing but stress on that child

there is also the element that a playdate does not allow the child to be like they would in an open setting (playground, group, daycare, park, etc) where they can pick to play with who they want or to not play at all with others

seems like the OP is doing the right thing by her DD..... if the child is overall happy playing at this time not with her peers- why push that on her? I see no benefit but far more stress in the end- she is four, she has lots of time to make friends and you can learn lots of way to be polite and how society wants you to interact by watching adults-the parents are the first start- some where there is a myth that parents can't teach their children and it is best left to professionals too


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> She could just be an introvert, I I don't personally believe that is learned. *I think it's an innate* thing for some people. But even if she's an introvert, she might warm up a bit to playing if the *expectations are lowered and there's no pressure. *


Personality -IMO is the whole thing! no amount a socializing for some will ever work-others it doesn't make a bit of difference

Quote:


> *expectations are lowered and there's no pressure. *












that is how I understand it


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## mtbmomma (Feb 12, 2010)

This has turned into quite the debate Anyways, we are undecided about which schooling option we will go with. Both DH and I would like to homeschool, but also think that financially we would be better off if we both have careers. I know it is possible to do both, but I'm not sure whether I'm up for that. Ideally we will either homeschool or she will go to a charter school, or maybe Montessori (though I know we would be late to start).

About the playdates, most of the ones we do are just a group of 2-5 moms, each with one or two kiddos in the infant to 4 year old age group. We meet at parks, playgrounds and each other's houses. I think it is definitely easier at the park or playground, however DD still rarely cares about playing with other kids and just wants to play with me or by herself there. I feel bad going to other people's houses if I don't host as well, since they usually provide food etc. I may just stick with the park/playground meet ups for the time being. I am not really worried about DD, just curious whether this is an age thing or personality, and if I should be trying to encourage her to be more social.

I was extremely shy around people I didn't know as a child, and wasn't very comfortable in group settings. DD seems to be very similar, I just worry more since she is an only child and I had lots of siblings. If we decide to homeschool I will pursue coops or homeschool groups. DH is just finishing up his masters, so we anticipate moving soon and I'm not sure where that will be so it is hard to plan ahead.

I am looking forward to four, I love watching kids open up at this stage and really blossom into individuals. Thanks for all the great advice.


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## Shami (Oct 9, 2007)

Ok Serenbat, you win. I am too tired to debate you.

My only point was that playdates (and by playdates I mean the no pressure kind, not where they are worried about their stuff) can be beneficial in helping children learn to navigate interpersonal relationships. Usually right around 4 to 5 years old they start actually wanting to play with kids their age. Of course, not everyone because you have to factor in if they are shy or introverted. Anyway the op's dd is not even 4 yet so developmentally not really at the friend making stage.

I don't think it is absolutely necessary at this point for the OP to get together with other moms just for her daughter. All my play dates benefit both me and my daughter. It sounds like it's not beneficial at this time for the OP and her daughter. But for me, my daughter loved getting together with other moms and kids from about 3 years and up. Serenbat, your opinions are valuable, but it sounds like you view play dates only as contrived, forced,stressful events. The reason I am too tired to debate you is because you don't leave any room for another opinion. I don't see where you are coming from because I know no one in real life who forces stressful play dates on their kids. As a parent, who would want to do that? Sheese that makes more work for the mom trying to discipline them. And I know no one in real life who has grown up and been negatively impacted by playing with kids because their moms set it up. I don't even remember who I played with at age 3, 4, and 5. Regarding the issue of play dates and it being the parent choosing friends: I see play dates as giving her an opportunity to make friends. Can you accept another perspective?

I guess I had a little energy left for debate...lol


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## Shami (Oct 9, 2007)

OP, just saw your last post. You were wondering if you should encourage her to be more social. I think your doing great just giving her opportunities to be social if she wants to. Going to parks or gathering where she could begin to play with other kids if the opportunity is there, she may surprise you one day.

My daughter used to pinch the daylights out of kids who just sat too close next to her. I dealt with it for 1 1/2 years. I hardly took her to any play areas or playdates. I was so sad and I thought she was going to be this horrible nasty mean child that no one would like. I have past threads that I started about it. Then right around 3 she came out of it and now she is great. She didn't really start making friends at a park until about 4 1/2, and she is very extroverted.

I think your right on not to worry about her. Her age and her personality are the key factors here. Once she matures a little she might start playing with other kids. She'll probably meet some kid that will just click with her and away she'll go. I remember when that happened for the first time with mine and it was fun to watch.


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> About the playdates, most of the ones we do are just a group of 2-5 moms, each with one or two kiddos in the infant to 4 year old age group. We meet at parks, playgrounds and each other's houses. I think it is definitely easier at the park or playground, however DD still rarely cares about playing with other kids and just wants to play with me or by herself there. I feel bad going to other people's houses if I don't host as well, since they usually provide food etc. I may just stick with the park/playground meet ups for the time being. I am not really worried about DD, just curious whether this is an age thing or personality, and if *I should be trying to encourage her to be more social. *


given your post-It seems like there can be a number of reasons your DD is not wanting this-the sheer number at your home (when you did have them over) would make some very social outgoing children not happy and the age just may not be a fit- you can certainly reciprocate food at another venue

your idea of what is social and what she enjoys may always be two different things

you seem in-tune but still leaning towards your expectations - can you break from the circle of these friends and only do one on one with a child more in line age and personality of your?

she may end up more shy or in the end she may just be not in the right situation - either way, your have lots of *time*


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

I'm not going to touch the debate, I'll just say that I don't see anything wrong with playdates provided they are low-pressure & fun (even if their version of 'fun' is different than ours and even if it doesn't involve actually playing with each other!) I have seen huge benefits to DS and his friends from having lots of playdates and we have a very active social life, despite the fact that my 3.5yo DS is a lot like your DD.

I would try doing consistent, regular playdates (every Thursday afternoon, for example) and keep it to only one other kid (or one other family). I would not be afraid to rotate houses, it's a learning process to share your own space, but if you'd prefer to stick to parks/playgrounds or the other person's house, I don't see anything wrong with that. Why not just offer to bring snack or lunch, so the 'burden' is shared more equally? (Also, we still do big group playdates because _I_ want to stay in touch with _my_ friends and it does help to see the other kids more often anyway. The one-on-one playdates are in addition to, not instead of, the group ones.)

Anyway, with DS and a few of his more anxious/shy/less social friends, doing very routine playdates has made a world of difference. It's such a difference to have time with just ONE other family, and to very consistently meet with them. The first few weeks they didn't just ignore each other but actively railed against each other (out of fear). Once they started getting used to the routine and to each other, they really relaxed and let their guards down and now they have such a great time & look forward to their weekly playdate. Also can help if you make the focus something besides just playing -- so maybe it's a lunch date (bonus if the kids can actually prepare the lunch themselves or set the table together), or a craft date, or maybe even a movie date -- something that will serve as a distraction from any pressure to 'play' which is such a vague term...

DS needs a looong time to warm up, especially if we are with more than 1 family (the bigger the group, the longer it takes him to feel comfortable). He often spends an entire group playdate sitting on my lap or eating. The more we do it regularly, the shorter the time he needs to warm up, but it still takes him so long that often he's just starting to play when all the other kids are leaving. I found that lingering for an extra hour or more with another mom or two who doesn't have a rushed schedule has allowed him to play way more than he would if it were just a standard 2 hour playdate.

Playing at the park with random kids _does. not. happen._ for DS. He is just way too anxious for that. He needs the predictability of knowing what to expect from the other kids so while I do still take him to just hang out at the playground, I know that he will play only with me while we're there (and usually want to leave if lots of other kids do show up).

DS has a best friend now. They play together so well, in a way I wasn't sure would ever be possible for him. And he has other friends who he plays well with too. It's pretty amazing to see the transformation, which may be part due to timing/development but mostly I think due to our consistency with getting together with the same people week after week.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtbmomma*
> I am not really worried about DD, just curious whether this is an age thing or personality, and if I should be trying to encourage her to be more social.


i would NOT encourage her to be social now. first she needs to feel safe in numbers. dont worry. you wont hurt her for good. give her the time to feel safe and confident. and then she will in her own time venture out.

dd's best friend was this way. he finally joined soccer and became much more sociable in first grade. until then he only played with those he knew well. never in a park with lots of other kids.

you can try once in a while, but back off if you find she is not ready yet. like crunchy's son, some kids do better with a couple of good friends.


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## ilovemygirl (Sep 8, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *faithsstuff*
> 
> And just a note from personal experiance, I can't think of one really good behavour ds has picked up from playing with other kids his age or younger. He learned to spit, play violently and tease from other kids his age. I'd rather he play with us for a little while longer


I agree with this soooooo much!

The idea that I need to expose my child to behavior that I find undesirable in some bizarre attempt to prepare her for coping with bad behaviors in adulthood is bizarre to me. As an adult, if I invited someone over and they were being rude, careless with my things, yelling at me, etc. I would ask them to leave not accept their behavior. If someone pushed, shoved, or hit me at work, I would file a complaint with human resources and the offender would be fired or otherwise reprimanded. I don't know where everyone else works but I've never in my twenty-something years of working ever been encouraged to put up with the kind of behaviors that children are taught to "deal" with in playgroups.

I'm not saying that all children and/or playdates are like this. What I am saying is ... if your child is stressed out about the treatment of her things and having these playdates is upsetting or even in any way unpleasant or just not desirable for your child, what on earth is the point of subjecting her to that? There's no point to it now and has no advantage for her later. There is nothing about cooperation or teamwork that cannot be learned later on in childhood or from adults that makes the misery of putting your kid through this worth it. All it's going to teach her is that you will use your position of power as a parent to force her into things that have no clear point or desired outcome.

I have an only child who is five now. She by far prefers adults to children. She isn't necessarily anti-playdate like the OP's child but she doesn't seek out long lasting friendships with other children either.

When I ask her why she replies that adults are nicer and have interesting things to say, but by far her most popular answer is they are CALM. It seems to me she enjoys interactions that are mutually respectful and mature and she has expressed that she doesn't feel that way often when having unstructured play with other kids her age.

OP- I think as long as your child is happy and learning and healthy, there is NO reason at all to force something she isn't interested in. Also, at only four years old, she might change her mind in a few months or years or however long and totally surprise you and that's completely ok. I homeschool my dd and I don't consider this a problem or issue at all. If you have other good reasons for school that's fine but please don't feel you have to send her just for "socializing".


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted by *faithsstuff*
> ...


children really look at their authority figures (mainly the adults in their life) to seek expectable molding behaviors so I completely understand this too!

both mine have often questioned why the other parents do not say anything to their children when they do things like you have mentioned (speaking to them for spitting, etc)

Quote:


> When I ask her why she replies that adults *are nicer* and have interesting things to say, but by far her most popular answer is *they are* *CALM**.* It seems to me she enjoys *interactions that are mutually respectful and mature* and she has expressed that she doesn't feel that way often when having unstructured play with other kids her age.


my two are the same (and like interaction, when someone does not acknowledge them they are turned off-this behavior has been since birth) and any time I have said roughly the same thing to others they just don't get it- your age group often in life is not who you desire for company- we tend to get this as adults but not for children

and some children do not feel comfortable around infants that cry (those who are not use to it) can be unset by this


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## mtbmomma (Feb 12, 2010)

Crunchy_Mommy, I like the idea of a more routine play date with just one other family, however making that happen has been tricky in the past. Maybe once summer travel calms down we can make something happen.

I guess I didn't mention that I do enjoy the adult interaction as well, however I think I need to branch out and make some friends with shared interests, instead of just moms. We have moved around a lot in the past few years and will be moving again soon, so I haven't really had time to find my niche. I don't really fit in with this group of moms, and DD doesn't seem to fit in well with the kiddos either, but I guess whenever DH finds a job that will all change anyways.


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> so I haven't really had time to find my niche.


a lot of people find what they need when they are not looking

if you do things on your own- for you ( a class- program even at a Y where she can stay in a provided child area even for just an hour-what ever) you might find those who do have more in common just with you

often the friends of our children are not our friends or even those we would want to be friends with and vise versa


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## faithsstuff (Nov 30, 2008)

What I'm really seeing in this thread is how much a childs personality effects how we, as parents, answer this question.

Ds wants to play with other kids, and we attend loosely structured playdates. Our issue is that ds is just *differant* from alot of the other kids his age. Our two closest family friends both have kids that are much more physically aggressive. It s happens that both sets of parents believe in letting the kids work it out. What it turns into is that my son is being beaten with a stick by another kid. I can't tell you how many times I've heard 'it can't really bother him or he'd hit so-and-so back'. That's how they parent, it's the parenting that works for their child. Not for my child. If other kids have to go through a stick beating stage cool, but I understand why ds doesn't like it.

And it does damage to child to try to explain why so-and-so is still a good kid even though they beat other kids with sticks. It's a strange scenario, I find having a boy who doesn't do alot of the 'oh that's how boys act' behavior is a gray area.


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## averlee (Apr 10, 2009)

Maybe my perspective on this is a little different. I think often parents want to see their young kids relating to, and becoming socialized, along with their peers. Many/most kids love to play with other kids in groups, but not all. Ruling out any disability, emotional or developmental problem (sometimes kids who can't hear well, or who have experienced severe trauma, or those with autism, don't want to make friends with other kids) I'd probably let her play with who she wants, and gently encourage her to play with cousins or the kids of your friends. But really, it is not friends and peers who are going to be the most important people in your child's life, over the course of her lifetime. It's not peers we live and interact with and love with our whole hearts- it's our family. Socializing her within your family prepares her for a life of living close within a family group, which for most adults, is the most important thing in the world.


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## Shami (Oct 9, 2007)

A couple of posters mentioned that some play dates can result in their own kids learning negative behaviors, such as spitting. Just wondering, are you avoiding most play situations for that reason? Or maybe it's just one reason to avoid play dates? If my dd was around someone who was constantly aggressive(this did happen with one of my friends whose son was going through a pushing/tackling phase at 2.5 years) or rude/hurtful continually, then I would avoid play dates with that child for a while until the phase passed.

I see it from another angle though. By the way, I do remember thinking, "Oh Great, now dd is going to start kicking since she saw so n so kick." However, it was an opportunity for me to teach her that feet are for walking, running, climbing, not for kicking people. I see play dates as a spring board for conversation (now that she is older) to teach her the values that I want to instill. Even when she was little, I could talk to her in a simple way about how so n so felt when her friend pushed her. I have always focused a lot on other peoples emotions, faces, body language. By pointing this out, I think she has grown into a person who can read others and have sympathy for others.

I would much rather it be me helping her navigate these negative things at age 3,4, and 5, so that, when she goes to school (or any kid event if you are homeschooling) she has some tools under her belt that I gave her.

Mine is extroverted, so I can't say for sure how I would handle it with a shy child. I think low pressure, gentle opportunities for her to begin to play with others is reasonable. And follow her lead.


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## SweetSilver (Apr 12, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtbmomma*
> 
> I know this is common for toddlers, but I thought this changed around 3-4. DD really doesn't have an interest in friends. She begs me not to have friends over for playdates because she doesn't want to share her things, and when we have them she spends the whole time anxious someone is going to touch something she doesn't want them to etc. She likes going to playdates at other people's houses, but only so she can play with their toys. We go to playgrounds all the time, and she has zero interest in playing with the other kids. We have had lots of discussions about this and she always says, "I like playing with other kids, but I like playing with you and daddy more." Today, after having a friend over for a playdate, she told me, "My friends aren't my friends, you and daddy are my friends".


Responding to the OP. I think you are raising my daughter! I could have said these exact same words.

For my dd, playgroups became pretty upsetting, and we just gave them up after many months of trying. At parks, I would finally resign myself to moving to a different part of the park when kids showed up on the big toys. Then, parks became a fun place to find playmates. Now, 3 years later, at 7.5yo, she is really wanting to be with girls her own age.

We are a bit "out of the loop" with all the area families as a result of dropping out of the playtime social scene, and that presents a bit of a hurdle for us as well as living pretty far out from any of the kids in gymnastics, but I am encouraged that she wants to have company now. It has been a long journey. I'm more than ready for the next leg.


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtbmomma*
> 
> Crunchy_Mommy, I like the idea of a more routine play date with just one other family, however making that happen has been tricky in the past. Maybe once summer travel calms down we can make something happen.
> 
> I guess I didn't mention that I do enjoy the adult interaction as well, however I think I need to branch out and make some friends with shared interests, instead of just moms. We have moved around a lot in the past few years and will be moving again soon, so I haven't really had time to find my niche. I don't really fit in with this group of moms, and DD doesn't seem to fit in well with the kiddos either, but I guess whenever DH finds a job that will all change anyways.


Yes, summer makes it hard, and it's even harder when you don't really fit with the group you're in. Your DD can probably sense that too -- that you're not entirely comfortable with this group of moms -- and it may be making it harder for her to feel comfortable. When you find the right group of kids/mamas, magical things can happen! So don't give up.







Took me a long long time to find my niche.


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> I see it from another angle though. By the way, I do remember thinking, "Oh Great, now dd is going to start kicking since she saw so n so kick." However, it was an opportunity for me to teach her that feet are for walking, running, climbing, not for kicking people.


not everything in life (even at 3 or 4) is a good learning experience- there are time when behavior is clearly inappropriate, not healthy or warranted and my child does not need to be punching bag to learn a lesson

knowing as a parent when to be in a situation and when not to is the key

Quote:


> Your DD can probably sense that too -- that you're not entirely comfortable with this group of moms -- and it may be making it harder for her to feel comfortable.


this is so true and often the case at this age


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I don't think it is something to worry about yet, if she gets to five and still won't interact with children she knows well then I do think you should look for an underlying cause but at this point she may just be a little late at developing socially. For my dd it really happened overnight when she was.about three and a half. Even then she preferred playmates who wanted to talk a lot as they played games involving a lot of detail so the desire and ability was there but it was hard to find kids who were interested in having conversations.

A few things that helped make playdates fun and play focused were letting her put her toys she didn't want to share in my room. I kept some toys that were multiples aside for playdates and encouraged Lego play. When things looked bad I pulled out art supplies. When using the house was too much we used the park.


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## mtbmomma (Feb 12, 2010)

Sweetsilver, I think DD will likely be similar. I think if we had more opportunities to play with older kids she would do that too, although she doesn't seem interested in older kids at the park. Most of the time she just wants to play with me, and I am getting kind of tired of being the playmate all the time, especially since DH has been working 8 days on/6 days off, so I am single parenting every other week.

Crunchy_mommy, I am really looking forward to finding a group where I fit in. I actually had one when DD was little, but we moved from there when she turned one. I am definitely ready to settle in one location so it seems worth the effort to make lasting friendships. I am still friends with all those moms online, but that really isn't the same thing.

One_Girl, you are probably right, DD is pretty advanced physically and mentally, but seems a bit behind socially and emotionally, which makes sense. I'm sure things will eventually balance out.


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## Shami (Oct 9, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> not everything in life (even at 3 or 4) is a good learning experience- there are time when behavior is clearly inappropriate, not healthy or warranted and my child does not need to be punching bag to learn a lesson
> 
> knowing as a parent when to be in a situation and when not to is the key


I am curious Serenbat, are you saying that you don't let your kids play with other kids at all so that they will never get kicked or spit at? I want to make it clear that I don't agree with letting your kid get beat up for the sake of learning a lesson.

I am saying that during the course of play, during play dates or on the play ground, stuff happens and I see it as an opportunity to help my daughter navigate through these big emotions that occur. I don't have a crystal ball to tell me which kid is going to be mean so that I can avoid that kid. I did leave a mall play land once when I noticed a boy biting others. Again, I told my daughter why and used it as a learning tool.

I think I am misunderstanding your message because I seem to be the only one stirred up by your posts.


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## Wolfcat (Jan 10, 2006)

Is she an introvert? If she is, she may pick up on all the social cues but have no desire to have frequent interactions with other kids.


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## ilovemygirl (Sep 8, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> not everything in life (even at 3 or 4) is a good learning experience- there are time when behavior is clearly inappropriate, not healthy or warranted and my child does not need to be punching bag to learn a lesson
> 
> ...


I wanted to agree with this and say ...

I find it to be very true that some things just don't need to be experienced to "learn" something. I don't need to witness a murder or assault to know it's wrong. I've never been to a prison but you better believe I've learned it's somewhere I'd rather not end up.

I know these are extreme examples but it's just the point of saying that it's not necessary for our children to view other children being mean to teach them that being mean is wrong.

To be clear, there is nothing wrong with playgroups, playdates or getting children of the same age together. However, this thread is about a child who does not enjoy being a part of that. At best it is uninteresting to her and at worst upsets her terribly. It should be more than okay for her to not have to be a part of it.


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## ilovemygirl (Sep 8, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *One_Girl*
> 
> I don't think it is something to worry about yet, if she gets to five and still won't interact with children she knows well then I do think you should look for an underlying cause but at this point she may just be a little late at developing socially. For my dd it really happened overnight when she was.about three and a half. Even then she preferred playmates who wanted to talk a lot as they played games involving a lot of detail so the desire and ability was there but it was hard to find kids who were interested in having conversations.
> A few things that helped make playdates fun and play focused were letting her put her toys she didn't want to share in my room. I kept some toys that were multiples aside for playdates and encouraged Lego play. When things looked bad I pulled out art supplies. When using the house was too much we used the park.


I know I just posted but I saw this after and wanted to comment on it. I agree that it's really hard when you don't have a "mainstream" kid. After the kids turned four it was soooooooo hard to find a girl to play with that was open to anything other than American Girl, princess, fairy or some other fantasy. Finding a boy that would even play with a girl was hard enough but almost always he doesn't want to play a board game or tag, it's warrior or terrorist or karate, etc. I know these seem like generalizations but I'm sorry to say I've found it to be overwhelmingly true.

On the putting things in your room thing ... WOW was I unprepared for what happened with that. I would have never gone in someones room without permission as a kid but I've had nothing but trouble with this at my home. I provided so many things to do and play with in the family room and figured this would be great but the kids actually whined and fought with me about why they weren't allowed in dd's room. On one occasion, a parent actually had the nerve to question and argue with my dd about it and tried to shame her and tell her she was bad for not sharing! I swear this really happened. I think I've just gotten a lot of bad luck but I just wanted to put it out there that what is sometimes seemingly an easy solution can cause more trouble than doing nothing at all.


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## SweetSilver (Apr 12, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ilovemygirl*
> 
> I provided so many things to do and play with in the family room and figured this would be great but the kids actually whined and fought with me about why they weren't allowed in dd's room. On one occasion, a parent actually had the nerve to question and argue with my dd about it and *tried to shame her and tell her she was bad for not sharing!* I swear this really happened. I think I've just gotten a lot of bad luck but I just wanted to put it out there that what is sometimes seemingly an easy solution can cause more trouble than doing nothing at all.


I just wanted to make an OT comment about this: the sharing things can sometimes get out of hand. I hate forced sharing. The point is to encourage unselfishness, or so I thought, but the attitude about MUST SHARE can get so supremely selfish in and of itself. I hate it.

Sorry, this just gets my goat.


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## ilovemygirl (Sep 8, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SweetSilver*
> 
> I just wanted to make an OT comment about this: the sharing things can sometimes get out of hand. I hate forced sharing. The point is to encourage unselfishness, or so I thought, but the attitude about MUST SHARE can get so supremely selfish in and of itself. I hate it.
> 
> Sorry, this just gets my goat.


Thanks! It's obviously a pet peeve of mine too! My child has learned to share communal things, take turns at public places, wait on lines, etc. but just like I don't think she needs to be forced to socialize with kids her age, I also don't think she needs to be forced to share her own personal items. And surprisingly - I guess to some, she's quite generous and does share a lot of her own free will but when she doesn't want, let's say ... to have her friend lick her ice cream cone because she thinks it's really gross to have someone else's spit on her food (and I agree with her) I think it's the other party that needs to recognize that things will not always be given to them. And yes, this happened IRL too. The child and their parent were appalled that dd didn't want to swap spit!

This is relevant to the OP question because I think it goes to what children are actually learning in these playdate type of situations. It's natural for a child to not want to have her belongings mishandled. It's natural for a child to not want to have a forced encounter that they find unpleasant when all they have in common is their age. I don't find it to be a great learning experience to have to explain these strange encounters to my child. It's just a lousy experience.


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:



> I am curious Serenbat, are you saying that you don't let your kids play with other kids at all so that they will never get kicked or spit at?


NOPE! Never said that nor implied it because I do allow it- you need to assess the situation and provide appropriate healthy situations (IMO) but what the OP described and the effect it has on her child is appears to be a result of the situations and clearly not working for the OP's DD.... and I pick and choose what "I" need for my children. At 4 my children did not need playdates, especially NOT in the home and not play that involved unhealthy play/activities. Can't seem to make it more clear for you sorry- apparently it does come off to others as clear- see below.

Quote:


> I think I am misunderstanding your message because I seem to be the only one stirred up by your posts.


I don't think you get what I or other's are saying at all. You just seem bent on going after me. Have you even read the other posts? I had commented on another poster that also did not do playdate for the negative ramifications

Quote:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> > I wanted to agree with this and say ...
> ...


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## Shami (Oct 9, 2007)

Why I am addressing your posts:

(Yes I read all and reread just now) Below are a few of your statements where it seems you are lumping all play dates at age four as useless and even damaging because they are forced by the parents. You did say that playground play is okay and exposure is okay. Overall, your statements make broad sweeping judgements on moms like me who want to get together with other moms at houses (you can't always go to a park/mall playland) and let their kids play.

To bring this back to the OP:

The OP said her kid has issues with sharing her own toys but happily goes to play at other kids houses with their toys. So this is a maturity issue IMO. It is also and only child issue. I had the same situation with my oldest. When moms brought kids to my house it was horrible. So, I took her to their house where they have siblings and the kids were used to sharing until my daughter matured in this area. Now she has no problem sharing, but I believe it was because I continued to take her to other mom's houses so she could learn how to share with the other kids toys. It was not stressful for us or them. Just needed to redirect a little here and there. This is why I say there is value in taking your child to someone's house where they can see a group of siblings or friends sharing and dealing with all the emotions that come when interacting with their peers.

And on the matter of the OP's daughter saying something about only mommy and daddy are friends. At that age they don't even know what a friend is really. In the younger years they tell their friends "I am not your friend anymore" and then the next day they are BFFs. So, that statement doesn't mean much to me. The value of the play date is to let them learn about the behaviors that they should do to be a friend eventually (kindness, patience, waiting for the other, taking turns, letting the other go first, manners, being polite). Sure they learn this from adults, but they have to learn to do it with their peers even when you are not watching. So, the play date has a great deal of value if it is carried out in the proper way.

There was one toy my daughter did not want to share recently (her Repunzel hair). So, I said fine, make sure you put it up. She said no I want to share and play with it. Her choice. Just throwing that in so I don't get blasted as an evil, forceful mom who "makes her kid share".

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> I feel so different about this and find most don't agree with me- but, NO way would I be doing what you are doing.
> 
> ...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> *I have such issues with force like this- we don't do this in the real world with adults, we do not force adults to play with others they do not get along with but yet we want children to do this-why?*
> 
> ...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> sorry but you missed the entire point of my post!
> 
> ...


In years past there was no need for the play date. Most families had a lot of siblings to play with while mom did house chores. Kids (even little ones) ran around the neighbor hood and all the families kept and eye out. Now I feel like I have to keep my daughter 'shut in' and it's unsafe letting her play in our yard without me watching her. I am not going to buy a swingset for this reason. She would be alone out there. In fact, I don't let her, and I live in a quiet neighborhood with mostly older folks. I looked online and their are 60 sexual predators in our area. I think this is why there became this need for play dates.

As a side note: I thought using capital letters is like SHOUTING. I know I have heard that somewhere. And the bold and underlining for emphasis feels condescending IMO. Sorry, Serenbat, but it is off putting to me. Just sayin'.


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## mtbmomma (Feb 12, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ilovemygirl*
> 
> I know I just posted but I saw this after and wanted to comment on it. I agree that it's really hard when you don't have a "mainstream" kid. After the kids turned four it was soooooooo hard to find a girl to play with that was open to anything other than American Girl, princess, fairy or some other fantasy. Finding a boy that would even play with a girl was hard enough but almost always he doesn't want to play a board game or tag, it's warrior or terrorist or karate, etc. I know these seem like generalizations but I'm sorry to say I've found it to be overwhelmingly true.
> 
> On the putting things in your room thing ... WOW was I unprepared for what happened with that. I would have never gone in someones room without permission as a kid but I've had nothing but trouble with this at my home. I provided so many things to do and play with in the family room and figured this would be great but the kids actually whined and fought with me about why they weren't allowed in dd's room. On one occasion, a parent actually had the nerve to question and argue with my dd about it and tried to shame her and tell her she was bad for not sharing! I swear this really happened. I think I've just gotten a lot of bad luck but I just wanted to put it out there that what is sometimes seemingly an easy solution can cause more trouble than doing nothing at all.


We have done the putting toys she doesn't want to share away in her room, but had the same problem. Someone went in there and she just melted down, and she still had a hard time with the toys we kept out (blocks etc.) which I consider communal toys. This may be an only child thing, but I am beginning to think it is just her personality.


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## mtbmomma (Feb 12, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wolfcat*
> 
> Is she an introvert? If she is, she may pick up on all the social cues but have no desire to have frequent interactions with other kids.


I think she may be. She really doesn't care for group situations, and she gets very anxious and becomes clingy when we go to things like performances (musical events, etc.) We went to a children's song and dance event at the library the other day, and she enjoyed the music, but was hiding her face in my shirt and kind of freaked out when they came in the crowd to shake our hands. And yesterday we were biking by a children's circus, and she didn't want to stop at all and seemed a bit nervous. It seems like she is afraid she will have to go up on stage or something.


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> your statements make broad sweeping judgements on moms like me who want to get together with other moms at houses (you can't always go to a park/mall playland) and let their kids play.


what I and others have said is it is not needed at this age-it can all be achieved other ways-

Quote:


> There is nothing about cooperation or teamwork that cannot be learned *later on in childhood or from adults* that makes the misery of putting your kid through this worth it. All it's going to teach her is that you will use your position of power as a parent to force her into things that have no clear point or desired outcome.


you in turn seem to be saying that if children do not do these playdates they will not know how to function and will not learn how to do so many things that I and other posters have pointed out they can learn without doing this-----------that is like saying if you do not do preschool you will not do well in school-that has not proven to be the case in countless studies - we are not talking about babysitting or being with other siblings but a direct parent chosen event here for a set agenda

with the OP it seems quite clear her DD is letting her know just how she feels about not wanting to do these playdates and so many of us are saying it is *OK!* and by not doing "playdates"at this age she most likely be *just fine*

you know frankly most mom's that I have meet that want the playdate really want someone else to watch their kid while they sit and drink coffee and talk-IMO- if you want to socialize with another mom hire a sitter, at this age the child would love the one on one attention and you can have your date


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## Shami (Oct 9, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> what I and others have said is it is not needed at this age-it can all be achieved other ways-
> 
> ...


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Shami it seem very unfortunate that you want to make this personal and directed solely at me. No matter what is posted you want this all to be on me. It is not worth it to even engage you.

IMO-is just that, in my opinion, MINE-not directed at anyone but what *I* have found- if playdates are for you-yippie! No place did I or anyone say all should be stopped, but again to direct this that I am making a broad and sweeping statement is unfounded and not needed - you stated the kids want to play together- the OP's child does not, clearly not talking about the same thing yet you keep wanting to just turn this all onto me.

Quote:



> However, there can be some value in finding the right kind of play date which might help the OP's daughter *mature* in some areas.


This is just flat out uncalled for. I feel this does not in anyway belong here- no where should this even be suggested there is an issue with the OP's DD on maturity!

It is not in anyway immature at this age to feel the way she does regarding playing with other or sharing or that something needs to be helped with her. In fact the DD seems extremely mature and articulate!


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## luckymamaoftwo (May 25, 2010)

I didn't read all the posts, but wanted to comment regardless. My DD sounds similar to yours, although mine is almost 5. We have many friends who want playdates often, and I think honestly, they feel rejected when I don't always jump on the suggestion/invitation. My DD has had playdates since she was a baby so it's not a "new" thing for her, but really, it isn't her favorite thing. So I just haven't forced it. And over the past 6-8 months, she has come a long ways in wanting to spend time with "friends" or have a playdate at our house or theirs.

IMO, people over-do the orchestrated playdate thing and although it can be great for many children, we need to keep in mind that all children are different and some are extroverts, some introverts (my DD) and we need to respect who they are and respect what is comfortable for them. That said, if I were you, I would offer playdates but never force them, and in terms of homeschooling..IDK, but I may consider doing at least a pre-school program to see how she reacts to the daily interaction with peers. If you decide to homeschool, aren't there still many ways to have homeschooled children interact with other children?

I realize this is a scattered response (I'm about to head out the door), but simply put...don't pressure her or make her feel strange for saying that mom and dad are her friends. I think that's great! Ch


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## mtbmomma (Feb 12, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *luckymamaoftwo*
> 
> I didn't read all the posts, but wanted to comment regardless. My DD sounds similar to yours, although mine is almost 5. We have many friends who want playdates often, and I think honestly, they feel rejected when I don't always jump on the suggestion/invitation. My DD has had playdates since she was a baby so it's not a "new" thing for her, but really, it isn't her favorite thing. So I just haven't forced it. And over the past 6-8 months, she has come a long ways in wanting to spend time with "friends" or have a playdate at our house or theirs.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your reply, it is good to know others are in the same situation. I think I will do just as you said, offer but not push play dates. It seems like DD has been really intense in general recently, and I don't want to make things any more stressful than they already are. Everyone says four is such a wonderful age, and I hope they are right because the end of three has been a lot of work


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## SweetSilver (Apr 12, 2011)

I think it's good to point out what "forcing" playdates might mean to us. Obviously, if a kid is crying about going to playdates and never enjoying them then it is clearly forcing the issue. On the flip side, abandoning them at the very first whimper when it is what a mom really craves *both* for herself and her children, well that is obviously imbalanced in the other direction. Somewhere between these two extremes is the squishy squashy middle. I say I have never forced my daughter to do playgroups, but then she never screamed and cried and I tried regularly for a at least a full year before finally realizing that this just wasn't ultimately a positive experience for my daughter. In fact I probably should have backed off a bit sooner, but she did have a lot of fun at times. She also got a pretty big chip on her shoulder that took us nearly 3 years to repair (that's on top of the general grumpiness she experienced since forever around kids at parks, pretty much anywhere except around adults, with which she was bubbly and talkative.)

Little, upsetting experiences can either strengthen kids, or it can be beyond their ability to cope at that time. We cannot judge based off our personal experiences, or those of others. Ultimately, we need to judge them based off what we see happening with our kids at that moment. We also need to trust that interacting with kids can be unpredictable and frustrating. Many children, like OP's, have difficulty dealing with kids their age. And can you blame them? Even the sweetest 4yo's can still be....4 year olds! No wonder kids like OP's (and mine) prefer the company of loving adults.

Really, this thread reads like the never-ending socialization arguments we HSers get. So, I guess I am more than biased on this issue.


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## luckymamaoftwo (May 25, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtbmomma*
> 
> Thanks for your reply, it is good to know others are in the same situation. I think I will do just as you said, offer but not push play dates. It seems like DD has been really intense in general recently, and I don't want to make things any more stressful than they already are. Everyone says four is such a wonderful age, and I hope they are right because the end of three has been a lot of work


End of three was also hard for us and although we've had a few blips in our "fours", overall we've found that DD is far less intense, more enjoyable on a consistent basis and MUCH more able to handle and process things. Yay for that!


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## Wolfcat (Jan 10, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtbmomma*
> 
> I think she may be. She really doesn't care for group situations, and she gets very anxious and becomes clingy when we go to things like performances (musical events, etc.) We went to a children's song and dance event at the library the other day, and she enjoyed the music, but was hiding her face in my shirt and kind of freaked out when they came in the crowd to shake our hands. And yesterday we were biking by a children's circus, and she didn't want to stop at all and seemed a bit nervous. It seems like she is afraid she will have to go up on stage or something.


I recommend the book "Quiet" for really good understanding of introverts. It also talks about what drives introverts to behave in an extroverted manner for brief amounts of time and discusses the strengths of introversion.


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## Emaye (May 23, 2008)

Since the word introvert seems to come up in this thread, I thought I would share a really great Ted talk (The Power of Introverts) you guys may enjoy about introversion.

http://www.ted.com/talks/susan_cain_the_power_of_introverts.html

Enjoy!


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