# Did I lie to to a customer about a carseat?



## krisnic (Dec 16, 2004)

I work at Babies R Us and a woman asked me for my opinion on a carseat. She had a little boy who was 24 pounds and couldn't have been more than 18 months. She wanted to buy a booster for him (Alpha Elite Apex high back booster to be exact) because in their van he was behind his dad, who sits with the seat all the way back and therefore the little boy kicks the seat. She wanted a carseat that didn't stick out of the seat as far so he wouldn't kick. I put him in the seat (she didn't know his height and I'm horrible at guessing measurements) but the lowest strap was at least an inch above his shoulders. She said he is in a convertible now (she kept calling it an infant seat but showed me that it was a convertible but didn't know which one).

The specifications on the carseat she was looking at were that you had to be at least 22 pounds and 57inches. He met the weight, not sure about the height. But the one next to it said that you could be 22 pounds and 34 inches, so she was going to go home to measure him to see if he would fit in that one. I told her that it was safest to keep him in the convertible until he was taller because the straps were so high up, that convertibles were made to last for several years. Was I right? If she comes back and wants to buy the 34 inches booster, is that okay for an 18 month old? I want information to back up my gut feeling, which is no.

This is the one she was looking at: http://www.toysrus.com/product/index...ductId=2452313
This is the one that she was going to see about: http://www.toysrus.com/product/index...ductId=2507895


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## candipooh (Jun 22, 2004)

I am sure others that are more educated on the sunject will add their coments but I just had to say

NO WAY

There is no way that an 18 month old is ready for a booster. There is certain recommendations about car seats and boosters that come in the manual for your car. One of the recomends. has nothing to do with the size of the baby/child but how they behave. If a child is not old enough to sit properly in a car seat with out being restrained then they need to be in a car seat. My almost 5 year old is still in a 5 point. My almost 7 year old is just now in a booster. My 9 year old has only been out of a booster for about 9 months.

eta: I just googled the booster she was looking at. This is the one that my almost 7 year old rides in







I also see that it can be used as a car seat. So now I am guessing that my post is not relavent. If she uses the 5 points with it as a car seat then that changes thing.


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## ani'smommy (Nov 29, 2005)

A booster for an 18 month old?! My daughter is 3 and she's still in a harness, and will be until she's over 65 pounds. Which won't be for a loooong time.


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## ErinsJuneBug (Nov 21, 2006)

NO WAY should he be in a booster. My DD at 2 1/2 is still rear facing. It would be safer for everyone if we faced backwards (but for obvious reasons we need to face forward to drive). Tell her the safest seat for her baby would be rear facing in a 5 point harness - many can be used rear facing for up to 35 pounds. Next safe would be forward facing in a 5 point harness - and a booster seat should only be used once a child outgrows the weight and height maximums on the convertible seat.


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## krisnic (Dec 16, 2004)

What can I tell her as to why the 5 point harness convertible is better than the 5 pt booster?


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## ErinsJuneBug (Nov 21, 2006)

Because the booster is just strapped into the seat belt - which DO fail. A carseat is tethered to the car in two other places.


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## candipooh (Jun 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ErinsJuneBug* 
Because the booster is just strapped into the seat belt - which DO fail. A carseat is tethered to the car in two other places.

You can tether a booster too (which the one in question has) My dd sits in this seat as a booster. It is tethered to the car. The seat belt is held on my daughter by the booster.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

You could point out that both have a recommended age of 4-10 yrs.

-Angela


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## wendy1221 (Feb 9, 2004)

If she has him forward facing, to be honest, I don't see much difference between a harnessed booster and a forward facing convertible. Yeah, he should still be rear-facing, but let's face it, most parents turn their kid around as soon as they hit 22lbs, whether they're a year old or not, even if their convertible rf to a much higher weight. And even if you explain to them about the safety, they'd rather have the convenience of forward facing. Not saying you shouldn't try, but that's the way it is.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

How about suggesting that she could solve the kicking problem by turning him rear-facing again! He can kick his own seat all he wants!

Remember too that many older cars don't have LATCH and are thus attached with the seatbelt anyway.

We moved ds into a seat like the one she's looking at when he was 3 because he outgrew the Britax Roundabout (he's got an incredibly long torso, and he's tall for his age). I didn't feel it was unsafe for him. It was attached to the car with the seatbelt and then tethered at the top to the back of the car. He had a 5 point that was attached in the same way that dd's Britax was. He was in the 5 point from age 3 to 6, and then at 6 he outgrew the 5 point harness and is using it as a booster.


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Those are both boosters with harnesses. So as long as the child was going to be in a harness FF it is no different than a FF convertible. But, he should be RFing, really. And also, those are not the best "convertible" booster seats. The Apex is ok, but not a great booster once the harness is outgrown (at least it has a high harness height and weight limit). The Graco one is probably a waste of money since it probably has a 40 lb limit and 14 or 15" harness height.


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

Nothing against you, but you wouldn't have to be here asking questions if BRU took the time to train people on carseats (even our BRU who helps w/ carseat events doesn't train well enough). This is very frustrating to me b/c I'm the one who sees the people after they've bought the wrong carseat and have to explain why it's bad.







I don't like being the bad guy.







Here's one handout that may help and maybe you could talk to someone at work about posting some of these, at least for the employees to see if not for everyone. http://www.cpsafety.com/PDFfiles/RearFacingBrochure.pdf This would be the safest thing for the child, to still be rfing. All convertible seats rf from 30-35# here in the US. Evan is 38 mos and still rfing in his seat as is Ilana at 15 mos.

After that it's best to be in a harnessed seat for as long as possible, over 40# AND 4yo is best. The first seat you posted has a 22# and 34" MINIMUM to use it. If he's not 34", you shouldn't even let them contemplate it b/c it would be illegal more than likely to use it, not to mention their warranty would be void for using the seat incorrectly. The seat you posted is not bad (I have one, lol), but it does HAVE to have a headrest or highbacked seat behind it. The head rest is not strong enough to w/stand crash forces so it has to have a supporter for it. I have a great handout w/ some great facts on harnessing if you want to pm your e-mail addy, I can send it to you.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LynnS6* 
How about suggesting that she could solve the kicking problem by turning him rear-facing again! He can kick his own seat all he wants!









:

(Also, why not just move the seat behind *Mom*??? These people don't seem to have done much thought about this at all.)


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## wendy1221 (Feb 9, 2004)

I doubt an 18 month old is 34 inches. My 2.5 year old I think is 34, not completely sure, but he also weighs 34lbs. That would be a super tall 18month old. And with him only weighing 24lbs, I really doubt he's tall for his age. 24lbs is really light for that age. I think my ds1 was about that weight and was barely on the growth chart.


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## goodheartedmama (Feb 1, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wendy1221* 
I doubt an 18 month old is 34 inches. My 2.5 year old I think is 34, not completely sure, but he also weighs 34lbs. That would be a super tall 18month old. And with him only weighing 24lbs, I really doubt he's tall for his age. 24lbs is really light for that age. I think my ds1 was about that weight and was barely on the growth chart.

DS was well over 34 inches at 18 months. Some kids are big. He's 37 inches and 36 lbs and not even 2 yet. DD is 30.75 inches and 19lb10oz. Anyway, some kids are tall, so completely possible.


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## cognito (Nov 30, 2007)

Well you have your seat requirements all mixed up...

The Apex has a 22# & 34" minimum, works with the harness to 65# or the shoulders are even with the top slots, then the max is 100# as a booster.

The Cargo has a 20# & 27" minimum, works with the harness to 40# or the shoulders are even with the top slots, then the max in 100# & 54" as a booster.

A FFing combo seat when used with the harness is no less safe than a FFing convertible seat with a harness.

I do like the RFing suggestion to stop the LO from kicking the seat. That would work really well.


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## lemurmommies (Jan 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wendy1221* 
I doubt an 18 month old is 34 inches. My 2.5 year old I think is 34, not completely sure, but he also weighs 34lbs. That would be a super tall 18month old. And with him only weighing 24lbs, I really doubt he's tall for his age. 24lbs is really light for that age. I think my ds1 was about that weight and was barely on the growth chart.

34 inches is totally possible for an 18 month old. Maybe not average, but certainly possible. My DS is 14 months old, 28 pounds and 33 inches.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cognito* 
The Apex has a 22# & 34" minimum, works with the harness to 65# or the shoulders are even with the top slots, then the max is 100# as a booster.

...

A FFing combo seat when used with the harness is no less safe than a FFing convertible seat with a harness.

If those are the requirements for the Apex, I am sure that my son would fit them by 18 months. So I can see how this woman was considering it for her son. While he _should_ be rearfacing, at least she was sonsidering a seat with a high harnessing weight limit. (This is me looking for a silver lining...)


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## cognito (Nov 30, 2007)

lemurmommies: My 14mo DS is about the same exact size & I know a few other 14mo LOs that are even bigger. I totally agree with you about the silver lining.


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## hottmama (Dec 27, 2004)

I would not forward-face an 18 mo. old, but the Apex is an okay seat for forward-facing. My 5 yr. old has had one since he was 36 mos/35 lbs. (in his dad's car). The thing with it is that you have to have headrests to use it, not all cars do in the backseat. It's definitely a better seat than the other one she's considering, as it allows extended harnessing (to roughly 5-6 yrs. old versus 3-4 in the other).
But I'd try to sell her a new convertible that'll allow extended rear-facing (35 lbs) and forward-facing (50+ lbs), like the Evenflo Triumph Advance. Or if she wants a combo seat that bad, the Graco Nautilus (is that at BRU yet?) is better than the Apex.


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## wendy1221 (Feb 9, 2004)

Do you really think her kid is likely to be over 34inches in height when he only weighs 24lbs? That was my main point, but I got jumped all over for saying it's really tall for an 18 month old.







Entirely possible, yes, but likely? I don't think so.

Btw, I checked ds3's records and he was 33" at 18 mos and is now over 37", not 34.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

um, isn't it illegal in most states to put a child under 40lbs in a booster?
As far as getting those seats to use harnessed, I would. I use a combo seat with the harness when I travel.


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deva33mommy* 
um, isn't it illegal in most states to put a child under 40lbs in a booster?
As far as getting those seats to use harnessed, I would. I use a combo seat with the harness when I travel.

Nope, there are very few states that have a law like that, most just have a proper use clause. So it's legal to have a 1yo in some boosters as long as they meet the weight and height limits.


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## angelcat (Feb 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wendy1221* 
I doubt an 18 month old is 34 inches. My 2.5 year old I think is 34, not completely sure, but he also weighs 34lbs. That would be a super tall 18month old. And with him only weighing 24lbs, I really doubt he's tall for his age. 24lbs is really light for that age. I think my ds1 was about that weight and was barely on the growth chart.


My daughter was 34" by 18 months. Sh'es over 37" now at 2.5.

And she was way too tall to rearface in her Cosco Touriva (rf's to 35lbs) by 18 months. The last time she rearfaced in it was at 13-14 months, and when I took her out, her head was over the top of the seat. By 27 months she barely fit in it ff, and I sold it.

You said one of those seats has a height minumum of 57"? That can't be right. That's like 4'9". I'm not much over that.

My daughter's main carseat since around a year has been an evenflo booster, harnessed, of course. I love it! It is super easy to adjust the straps, and there are still harness slots higher up, so she should be good in it for awhile.


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## OldFashionedGirl (Mar 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wendy1221* 
*I doubt an 18 month old is 34 inches*. My 2.5 year old I think is 34, not completely sure, but he also weighs 34lbs. That would be a super tall 18month old. And with him only weighing 24lbs, I really doubt he's tall for his age. 24lbs is really light for that age. I think my ds1 was about that weight and was barely on the growth chart.

I have nothing to contribute to the actual car seat discussion, but I do want to point out that my 12 month DS is 32 inches, 24 lbs. I expect he'll hit 34 inches before long.


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## frontierpsych (Jun 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angelcat* 
You said one of those seats has a height minumum of 57"? That can't be right. That's like 4'9". I'm not much over that.

That's what I was thinking! If you're 22 lbs and 57" tall, you need to see a doctor!


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## BensMom (May 4, 2002)

Wow, this is really scary that the person selling carseats at Babies R Us is so uneducated about carseat usage. No offense intended to the OP, but calling a FF harnessed seat a "booster" is not really correct. And if she has a kid FF in a convertable, its no different than FF in one of the ones you linked (in terms of taking up space in the car, kicking, etc). I really wish BrU would send their employees to a car seat tech training. Since they are probably the first and only line of education when it comes to carseat buying for most parents.


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

It's not uncommon to have a combination seat called a booster. Most manufacturers call them that, why wouldn't op? It's very confusing to everyone, but not worth mentioning IMO. Most BRUs will NOT hire a person to work there who is a CPST.


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## krisnic (Dec 16, 2004)

Yeah, the manufacturers do call them boosters, I was not aware that I was doing wrong.

Thanks everyone for your help.


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

Slightly OT but would a footrest solve the kicking problem maybe? My DH says that is why the kids kick-- it is uncomfortable to have one's feet dangle.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mizelenius* 
Slightly OT but would a footrest solve the kicking problem maybe? My DH says that is why the kids kick-- it is uncomfortable to have one's feet dangle.

I think the footrests are a no no- being after market products and all...

-Angela


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I think the footrests are a no no- being after market products and all...

-Angela

This is what I wondered-- DH wants to get them for our girls, but I questioned if they'd interfere w/proper seat installation.


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mizelenius* 
Slightly OT but would a footrest solve the kicking problem maybe? My DH says that is why the kids kick-- it is uncomfortable to have one's feet dangle.

You could try it. I know the Recaro combo seats have a foot rest you can buy. You could try just putting an empty cardboard box in the floor under their feet or we've talked about a stack of cut up pool noodles on c-s.org


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BensMom* 
Wow, this is really scary that the person selling carseats at Babies R Us is so uneducated about carseat usage. No offense intended to the OP, but calling a FF harnessed seat a "booster" is not really correct.

The actual names of the two products linked contain the word "booster," which is why the OP is calling them that.

What surprises me is that BRU doesn't have a height marker available in their car seat section. Wouldn't it make sense to have a spot on an endcap that the kid could stand in front of and get measured? And maybe a lying-down place for that for non-walkers?


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Well the height limits of a seat is really just a general guideline. Four different children of the same height will fit the same seat in four different ways, because of head size, torso height, etc etc etc. Manufacturers have to put height limits on the box but really they don't mean much.


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

The only times heights are really important are when you're looking at height minimums, like for the Cosco seats or to use a booster.


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