# forced bra wearing?--updates pages 4 & 6



## Nankay (Jan 24, 2002)

X-posted in pre-teen and teen forum

I'm not sure how I feel about all this so I'm looking to you all for some different perspectives. My dd is 11 and developing. She has boobs, but not full grown adult sized. We bought a couple of bras at her request this past summer, but she hasn't worn them very much at all. Today we got a note from her teacher saying that dd needs to wear a bra or undershirt everyday.

My knee jerk reaction is "Who are you to tell me and dd what to wear in regards to underwear?" I mean, the weather has been chilly, so dd wears long sleeves, dark, thicker cotton tops/sweatshirts. No halters, no see thrus etc. What the heck is showing that needs to be covered? I don't wear a bra everyday and I'm fairly hefty so maybe I'm missing something. It's not like she's not wearing deod. and stinking up the room.
What's next, come spring a note telling me we have to have her pits and legs shaved?
Anyway, I tend to get pissy and rebellious when told I "have ' to do something, so I need an outside point of view.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Personally, I would have immediatly contacted the teacher to tell her IN PERSON to mind her own business & make it clear DD will do what she wants with HERself.


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## lisac77 (May 27, 2005)

Ugh. My mother forced me to wear a bra (because SHE was uncomfortable with my breasts) and I HATED IT!!! I would tell that teacher where to stuff it, in the nicest way possible.


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## Nankay (Jan 24, 2002)

LOL.."stuff it".. snort..giggle..tee-hee









Sorry..hit me funny in a bra thread.


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## lisac77 (May 27, 2005)

Oh, that _was_ funny! I wasn't trying to be, but, yay me!


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## mcsarahb (Aug 25, 2003)

Did the teacher say WHY she needs to wear one? Is the teacher male or female? What kind of school is it?


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## Nankay (Jan 24, 2002)

Teacher is female--(late 40's I'd guess) teaching 5th grade in a public school in the U.S.


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## Flor (Nov 19, 2003)

Wow. If she's not breaking dress code, what's the issue? I CANNOT imagine writing that note to a parent!!!


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

I think that's way over the line for her to have sent that note!

If you need some info to back up bras potentially being a health hazard, http://www.brafree.org/ is a good site.


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## scheelimama (Aug 2, 2003)

I do wear a bra most every day and am uncomfortable not wearing one, but my I was similar to your dd when I was her age and hated wearing them. I would just wear sweatshirts or something to hide my stuff. My mom forced me to wear a bra and I despised it. I would not force her to wear one until she wants to. I think that teaches her to not be comfortable with who she is. If she is not being too obvious in her non bra wearing habits, I don't think it's an issue and I would have a talk with the teacher about it.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Good heavens. If there's nothing in the dress code about girls wearing bras (maybe even if there is!) I would be making a complaint. I hope she didn't embarass your daughter about this.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I posted on your other thread, but will here too... public school, eh? Is it in the dress code? (not that I think that's right, but you might have to play it differently) If it's not in the dress code I would write a nice polite letter telling the teacher where she could go and that it is none of her business what undergarments my child may or may not wear. I would cc it to the principal, the school board and anyone else I could think of.

NOT okay.

-Angela


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

That is a good idea angela a letter would be what I would have to do because when I read the other thread. I told my dh if that happened with dd he would have to hold me back because it wouldnt be pretty if I made it to the school







:


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## mcsarahb (Aug 25, 2003)

I think if the teacher didn't specifiy WHY she requires it, you need to figure that out first. Then you have something specific to argue against.


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## bandgeek (Sep 12, 2006)

I would be mortified if I was that age and a teacher sent that note home!

I don't care what the dress code is or what reasons that teacher has for expecting your DD to wear a bra or undershirt. That is just...wrong. I think wearing a bra is a personal choice. Even if you are a 40GGG and they hang to your belly button, it's nobody's business if you choose to support them or not.

But I agree with the pp's. You should find out why the note was sent home and go from there. But ultimately, if your DD is dressing modestly and is covered, they can't decide what underwear she wears, if any at all.

Geez, isn't it hard enough for little girls to make the transition into womanhood? They don't need to worry that people are thinking about their underwear and judging them!

This might be a good time to explain to your DD why society expects women to wear bras and let her know that it is ultimately her choice.


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

I think I'd want to talk to her and find out what's going on. Is DD being teased or something? I would imagine she (the teacher) must think she has a pretty good reason to send home a note about something so personal and I'd want to know what it is.


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## runes (Aug 5, 2004)

i would be







: if this happened to us.

angela's idea to write a letter to the teacher with cc's to higher ups is a good game plan.

but before doing that i would give the teacher one shot to explain her reasoning...give her an opportunity to either redeem herself or to thoroughly wedge her foot into her mouth even farther.


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## muckemom (Jun 26, 2006)

THATS BS - shes a child, she'll wear a bra when she wants to... besides, you said it was public school, maybe this teacher should be focused on saggy pants and midriff baring shirts and lowriders and all that jazz.... plus way to make your DD feel self-conscience about her newly developing body...








: She has no right to tell you that....


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## Barefoot Farmer (Feb 13, 2004)

Another mama chiming in to agree with finding out the reason for the request and then write a letter telling them where to stick their demands. Just wondering, what does your daughter to say about all this? Does she know there was a letter sent home?


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## deuxceleste (Aug 19, 2006)

I can't state this better than you all already have. Certainly we as a civilization and as women have come far enough so as not to have those who are embarassed by the human body dictate what we do and do not wear... particularly UNDERWEAR. Hell, I'LL write this teacher a letter. Seriously. That's just absurd.


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## angelpie545 (Feb 23, 2005)

Exactly what all the pp have been saying! That teacher needs to mind her business! I would adress this with her immediately. The nerve of some people never ceases to amaze me.







:


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## sphinxie (Feb 28, 2006)

I agree with all the pp =)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *paquerette*
If you need some info to back up bras potentially being a health hazard, http://www.brafree.org/ is a good site.

I was all enthused about this site, but got weirded out by how the dr's pictures are on every page. Also it's a little inflexible. A friend found this one as an alternative: http://www.007b.com/why_wear_bras.php

After a quick read it looks like the same info, but presented a little more evenly. Without the weird pics.


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## Joannarachel (Dec 10, 2005)

Holy way sexually inappropriate, batmother!







:

Wow. Just wow. I can't believe the teacher had the gall to write a note like that.


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## meisterfrau (Sep 24, 2005)

*I'm* a teacher, and I'm trying to imagine a parallel universe in which I'd think this was any of my business...nope, can't do it.







I would certainly spend some time crafting a politely worded nastygram to the teacher about it. I'd really want to know why this is an issue, too. Is it in the dress code? Are the boys staring at her (in which case, they need to be talked to)? Is it really cold in the room or something that it is (ahem) obvious that she isn't wearing a bra? Is DD's teacher a nipplephobe of the sort that would give nasty looks to an NIPer?







:


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## jennnk (Feb 6, 2005)

From the other side...I WISH a teacher had told my mom that I needed to wear a bra. I got teased _mercilessly_ because I didn't, and my mom didn't believe that. If a teacher had stepped in (because I know they heard it, and they knew it was going on, and they told the kids to stop but that just made it worse), maybe that would have stopped the torment. As it was, I wasn't allowed to wear one until I was 14, and by that time the damage was done. I'd have a talk with your daughter, ask if kids are bothering her about not wearing a bra, and if it bothers her, then let her wear one, but if it doesn't politely explain to the teacher that you appreciate her concern but DD has chosen to go brafree and that is her right as a growing woman.


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## EastonsMom (Oct 24, 2005)

Not that I agree with the teacher, but would she wear a cami with a shelf bra







: ? Just an idea


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## chinaKat (Aug 6, 2005)

You should also inquire if other students have been given the same instructions as your daughter.

I know of a situation in a school where one girl was singled out for criticism for her outfit, despite the fact that she was dressed basically identically to her classmates (you know how girls that age are -- there's an unwritten uniform!).

Anyway, the girl that got criticized for dressing inappropriately was the only one that had developed breasts.







:

The parents said hey, that's harrassment and the school backed down.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jennnk*
From the other side...I WISH a teacher had told my mom that I needed to wear a bra. I got teased _mercilessly_ because I didn't, and my mom didn't believe that. If a teacher had stepped in (because I know they heard it, and they knew it was going on, and they told the kids to stop but that just made it worse), maybe that would have stopped the torment. As it was, I wasn't allowed to wear one until I was 14, and by that time the damage was done. I'd have a talk with your daughter, ask if kids are bothering her about not wearing a bra, and if it bothers her, then let her wear one, but if it doesn't politely explain to the teacher that you appreciate her concern but DD has chosen to go brafree and that is her right as a growing woman.

Yeah - but the OP said that they have a few bras, and her dd isn't wearing them.


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## jennnk (Feb 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
Yeah - but the OP said that they have a few bras, and her dd isn't wearing them.

Ah. Missed that part. Sorry.


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## Kidzaplenty (Jun 17, 2006)

I'd have to find out why the note was written before I would be angry and respond. After that, I would weigh the reasoning before deciding what to do.

I made my daughters wear them when going out of the house when they began developing. It became too obvious and an attention grabber, and I did NOT want others to be paying attention to that part of their bodies. They were only children and I felt like I was protecting them from sexual preditors (be it adults or their peers). I will do it again with my next daughter when her time comes.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kidzaplenty*
I made my daughters wear them when going out of the house when they began developing. It became too obvious and an attention grabber, and I did NOT want others to be paying attention to that part of their bodies. They were only children and I felt like I was protecting them from sexual preditors (be it adults or their peers). I will do it again with my next daughter when her time comes.

What is _up_ with this? It's all over the other thread about this, too.

If wearing a freaking bra protected girls from sexual predators, we'd all be wearing them, and no girl would ever be harrassed, raped, etc. Bras don't protect girls from boys! I _always_ wore a bra, and I can assure you that "that part of my body" got plenty of attention from both boys and creepy older guys. It's a _bra_ - hold them up, shape them, and make them look pretty - not a breastplate!


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

I dont understand that reasoning either. If someone is gonna stare at breasts it really makes little difference if they are wearing a bra or not. I dont want to send a message to my dd that not wearing a bra = her wanting attention for it. I want it to feel normal to her. No different that deciding to wear socks or not wear socks.


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## MommyMine (Oct 31, 2005)

my thinking is this.

Girls are mean.

Girls are looking for the girl to label as "slut"

the girl with the biggest or most noticable tatas is usually the one who gets branded.

The girl who is developing early and doesn't wear a bra could be that girl.

the girl labeled as slut usually ends up living up to her label. In anycase it is terribly painful and once the label is applied there is no removing it. Even in a habit you would still be seen as the slutty nun- until you graduate HS.

I wouldn't want that to be my daughter.


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## mandib50 (Oct 26, 2004)

i'd be freaking peeved. if your dd is not wanting to wear a bra, and it is her choice, it is her decision. it's her body and good for her for choosing her comfort level.

cripes.







:


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyMine*
my thinking is this.

Girls are mean.

Girls are looking for the girl to label as "slut"

the girl with the biggest or most noticable tatas is usually the one who gets branded.

The girl who is developing early and doesn't wear a bra could be that girl.

the girl labeled as slut usually ends up living up to her label. In anycase it is terribly painful and once the label is applied there is no removing it. Even in a habit you would still be seen as the slutty nun- until you graduate HS.

I wouldn't want that to be my daughter.

So what you are saying is that she should give up her freedom to choose just so others wont label her?







If I am reading what you posted right.


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## MommyMine (Oct 31, 2005)

double post sorry


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## MommyMine (Oct 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MCatLvrMoMof2*
I dont understand that reasoning either. If someone is gonna stare at breasts it really makes little difference if they are wearing a bra or not. I dont want to send a message to my dd that not wearing a bra = her wanting attention for it. I want it to feel normal to her. No different that deciding to wear socks or not wear socks.

well philosophically I agree with you.

I think my son's penis is as natural as any other part of him. I don't mind if he is nude all the time...and I am quite often naked in front of my kids.

But it seems to be ignoring the obvious fact that not everyone sees things this way. OBVIOUSLY there is something different about bras and socks.

Children raised in houses where women always wear bras certainly do feel differently about breasts that swing and nipples that perk up beneath the shirt. If nothing else they are going to attract more attention if only because they are more "active".

I wouldn't be willing to play politics with my own child's body.

I see this similar to say purple hair...is it a bad thing? Well nope but it will get you noticed and noticed as the guy with purple hair...if that is all you want to be "the guy with purple hair" than great...but if you want to be noticed as the smart guy, or the guy who does well in sports or frankly ANYTHING other than the guy with purple hair you ought not have purple hair. Because if you do have purple hair you will only be the guy with purple hair. And it is pretty sad to be willing to self define yourself so limitedly.

I certainly wouldn't want my daughter to be "the girl who doesn't wear a bra" or "the girl with the boobs"...I just would hate to have her be defined at such an early age as just her boobs.


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## Kidzaplenty (Jun 17, 2006)

I do what I feel is necessary for me and my daughters. It may not be right for you, but it is right for us. I am not "sending a message to my dd that not wearing a bra = her wanting attention for it". And no matter how much some object, I find wearing a bra to prevent bringing attention to a maturing part of a child's body a valid reason for it.

Sorry if I offend anyone here. Just was stating my opinion for MY daughters.


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

So what if a girl wears a bra (and whatever other types of clothing are deemed necessary in order to be proper and modest) and still gets sexually harrassed, assaulted, and called a "slut" by her peers? Because it seems to me that most teen girls wear bras, but a great number of them have these unfortunate experiences nonetheless.


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## MommyMine (Oct 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BelgianSheepDog*
So what if a girl wears a bra (and whatever other types of clothing are deemed necessary in order to be proper and modest) and still gets sexually harrassed, assaulted, and called a "slut" by her peers? Because it seems to me that most teen girls wear bras, but a great number of them have these unfortunate experiences nonetheless.

so what?

I still wouldn't want to do anything that might make it MORE likely if it was my kid. Hey politics smalitics...it is MY kid and it ain't philosophy but my girl who is getting labeled. I just wouldn't want to screw around with what is her "RIGHT" and would want to do what is right for her. Even if what is right for her in the long run isn't what she wants to do now.

I see this as like how if my kid didn't want to brush her teeth or use deoderant I might still make her-for her own good. An older kid I might let her make a decision...but this girl is 11- she doesn't yet even get what she is deciding for herself. And that is why our kids have parents- so they have adults in thier lives who have seen that and done that before and know more than them to help guide them.

You can do what you want with your kid.

I was just saying what I would do with mine and why.


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

"What I want" is to not saddle my daughter with the expectation that she is responsible for the criminal mentality and actions of some males, or that she should be ashamed or afraid simply because she is female.

Women in full hijab get raped. Nuns get raped. Grannies in Victorian housedresses get raped. You can deceive yourself into believing that you can prevent the mistreatment of women with a dresscode, but that's all it is--self-deception. And blaming the victim.


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## MommyMine (Oct 31, 2005)

see I don't frankly get this reply. what rape? no one is talking rape.

But that issue aside. I am comfortable living in world where you can be both right and wrong. For example...I can be right about my fight with my boss and still get fired. I get that. So sometimes what is right isn't really what will be right in the end if I could see the future.

It maybe right that a woman shouldn't have to consider others in her actions but then again I guess I think we all have to consider others in our actions so long as we choose to live in a society. To go back to your rediculous rape analogy- just because a woman in Hijab can be raped doesn't mean we should all go around naked just to prove our nudity doesn't encourage rape.

I would hope in all this "right" I can teach my child to respect her own self and her worth for more than her sexuality.

My guess is she isn't wearing it becuase they are uncomfortable...and of course they are. But so are shoes- and we wear those even still...so is flossing and yet I do that too. There are lots of things we do that we may not find delightful but are really in our best interest to do. Being modest is something I think I do because it is important to choose the message I send the world about me. I choose to not make that message about my sex.

But again- that is me.

I consider it a powerful thing to say that I can shape how people view me. I think that assuming that you have no role in how you present yourself and how people take it is kind of a weak position frankly.


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## sphinxie (Feb 28, 2006)

You know, the question relevant to this thread is really not "Should or should not a young girl wear a bra."

The question is "Should or should not a teacher communicate with a parent on the subject of whether a young girl wears a bra." And "If she does, what would be an acceptable way of communicating about this."

I guess I can imagine scenarios where it might be appropriate for a teacher to communicate with a parent on this subject. But it should damn well not be perscriptive, unless it's a dress code issue.


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## trmpetplaya (May 30, 2005)

It's none of the teacher's business... honestly. If your dd wants to wear a bra then she will and if she doesn't then she can deal with the possible consequences (some pps mentioned teasing and whatnot). It's kind of like a teacher requesting that a male pupil wear briefs instead of boxers, yk? What was she doing looking there anyhow? I suppose I would find out the teacher's reasons and let her know that my daughter decides what she wears and doesn't wear. _Especially_ since she hasn't been wearing tight white t-shirts or anything that would make it obvious that she was braless.

Dh likes the idea of a nasty-gram cc'd to the principal.

'course we're planning on homeschooling and our dd is 10 months old, but in your situation, that's what I'd do









love and peace.


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## trmpetplaya (May 30, 2005)

Oh... totally off topic, but it's _not_ in our best interests to wear shoes (though they certainly ARE very uncomfortable! They deform the foot pretty badly too...). I haven't worn any since gosh... since I quit my job in March and I've never felt better









http://unshod.org/pfbc/index.html

http://barefooters.org/

Barefooting is legal and healthy. The health department rules against it are a myth







: Urban legend... driving barefoot = perfectly legal. It's only a silly social norm that begs to be broken









love and peace.


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## Joannarachel (Dec 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *trmpetplaya*
Oh... totally off topic, but it's _not_ in our best interests to wear shoes (though they certainly ARE very uncomfortable! They deform the foot pretty badly too...). I haven't worn any since gosh... since I quit my job in March and I've never felt better









http://unshod.org/pfbc/index.html

http://barefooters.org/

Barefooting is legal and healthy. The health department rules against it are a myth







: Urban legend... driving barefoot = perfectly legal. It's only a silly social norm that begs to be broken









love and peace.









I like my shoes. I'm more comfortable in them....I wouldn't really care to step on something sharp or sticky while barefoot. And 7 months out of the year it's way too cold to go without shoes. Oh, and in this state, there is a law on the books requiring a close-toed shoe to operate a motor vehicle. Not a myth.

Man, this post got off topic


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## CallMeMommy (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *trmpetplaya*
Oh... totally off topic, but it's _not_ in our best interests to wear shoes (though they certainly ARE very uncomfortable! They deform the foot pretty badly too...). I haven't worn any since gosh... since I quit my job in March and I've never felt better









http://unshod.org/pfbc/index.html

http://barefooters.org/

Barefooting is legal and healthy. The health department rules against it are a myth







: Urban legend... driving barefoot = perfectly legal. It's only a silly social norm that begs to be broken









love and peace.









Oh, the podiatrist I work for would have a field day with you! His solution to everything is a good, supportive shoe!









Back on topic, do we have an update yet? Anything? I'm DYING to know what the teacher said about this.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sphinxie*
The question is "Should or should not a teacher communicate with a parent on the subject of whether a young girl wears a bra." And "If she does, what would be an acceptable way of communicating about this."

Really, I agree with this. If it was my daughter, I would wonder why the teacher was staring at her chest. That, I guess, is what bugs me about this.


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## Nankay (Jan 24, 2002)

No update yet. I am talking with the teacher today to find out why she wrote the note. DD doesn't know about any of this..she would be mortified for sure. Today, I "made" her choose either an undershirt or bra to wear (until I can straighten this out) and I truly saw no difference in her appearance.







Frankly, if I had boobs her size I would NEVER wear a bra.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nankay*
Anyway, I tend to get pissy and rebellious when told I "have ' to do something, so I need an outside point of view.

Me too so take this for what it's worth.

I would write a note back or go in to speak with the teacher and tell her that you are not going to force your daughter to wear a bra if she doesn't want to wear one. There is no need for a woman to wear a bra unless she herself finds it more comfortable to do so.

Argh.


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## MommyMine (Oct 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sphinxie*

The question is "Should or should not a teacher communicate with a parent on the subject of whether a young girl wears a bra." And "If she does, what would be an acceptable way of communicating about this."

I for one would hate to limit any topic a teacher talks to me about. Teachers spend more hours with our kids than we do and they spend far more time watching our children interact with their peers. I wish more teachers would talk to more parents about more issues! Of course the "hang em high" attitude I see here probobly explains why teachers so often don't talk to parents.


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## mommaduck (Sep 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyMine*
I for one would hate to limit any topic a teacher talks to me about. Teachers spend more hours with our kids than we do and they spend far more time watching our children interact with their peers. I wish more teachers would talk to more parents about more issues! Of course the "hang em high" attitude I see here probobly explains why teachers so often don't talk to parents.

Perhaps it's more a matter of HOW the teacher handled it. She sent home an impersonal note with not alot of info on the "WHY this is an issue". A phone call or some EXPLAINATION on why this might be something to consider (and offering it as a suggestion or consideration to the parent rather than a demand) might have come across better.

OP, hope you get this straightened out soon...can't wait to hear what the teacher has to say.


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## MommyMine (Oct 31, 2005)

see and I think perhaps it is the subject matter that is so quick to get our feminist panties in a bunch.

I mean you want to say it is just a piece of clothing - of no more importance than socks but I doubt anyone would be freaking out if she said "please have your daughter wear socks." So which is it?

Just a piece of cothing or something so delicate and important that she should have taken time to call (time btw that teachers really don't have).


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## Fiercemama (May 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sphinxie*
You know, the question relevant to this thread is really not "Should or should not a young girl wear a bra."

The question is "Should or should not a teacher communicate with a parent on the subject of whether a young girl wears a bra." And "If she does, what would be an acceptable way of communicating about this."

I guess I can imagine scenarios where it might be appropriate for a teacher to communicate with a parent on this subject. But it should damn well not be perscriptive, unless it's a dress code issue.









:


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## prettypixels (Apr 13, 2006)

Quote:

Being modest is something I think I do because it is important to choose the message I send the world about me. I choose to not make that message about my sex.
I'm curious as to how you keep your message to the world from being about your sex... since being a woman in and of itself IS a message to the world based on sex. Seriously, does this need to go so far that you dress like a man? At what point is a woman "modest" enough that her "message" is no longer about sex? Is it when she is wearing a bra? What if she is flat-chested? Is it if her skirt is below knee-length? What if it's at the knee? Is that too much sex?

I'm seriously not trying to be... antagonistic here... I just don't understand what you are trying to say. I don't have any argument with how *you* are comfortable dressing, but I don't really understand how you apply that to how you are viewed in the world. You are still a woman and thus to many people, a target. No matter what you wear.


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## prettypixels (Apr 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyMine*
see and I think perhaps it is the subject matter that is so quick to get our feminist panties in a bunch.

I mean you want to say it is just a piece of clothing - of no more importance than socks but I doubt anyone would be freaking out if she said "please have your daughter wear socks." So which is it?

Just a piece of cothing or something so delicate and important that she should have taken time to call (time btw that teachers really don't have).

BTW, some people don't like to wear socks... so if socks were an issue I'd want to know why before I told my daughter what to wear or what not to wear. But yes, clearly, this is a different issue. Being told to wear socks could actually have something to do with... say, smelly shoes! Being told to wear a bra has to do with only... hiding your breasts! Or at least, I will be interested to hear what the teachers reason is.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyMine*
the girl labeled as slut usually ends up living up to her label. In anycase it is terribly painful and once the label is applied there is no removing it. Even in a habit you would still be seen as the slutty nun- until you graduate HS.

Interesting.

I was labelled a slut. I wasn't any of the things that the kids calling me a "slut" meant by that. I just dressed that way (including a bra to shove my breasts up and forward and emphasize my cleavage).

My sister was _not_ labelled a slut. She'd had more sexual partners by age 17 than any other woman I know has had in their late 30's. She had sex with guys who she knew had girlfriends - she cheated on her own boyfriends - at least once, she conceived a baby in an attempt to hold onto a boyfriend.

My cousins were both labelled sluts. One of them got the label _because_ she was "sleeping around". The other got it because she had very large breasts, long blonde hair and huge blue eyes. She's very happily monogamously married to a man she met when she was 16.

I've seen no evidence that the "girl labelled as a slut usually ends up living up to her label". I don't use that particular label, myself (although I did apply it to a male friend of mine once - his behaviour was disgusting, and I was trying to make a point). If the OP's dd is being targetted with this kind of crap (being labelled a slut, for example) because she's developing early, a bra isn't going to change that. A bra holds them up and shapes them - it doesn't hide them.


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *prettypixels*
BTW, some people don't like to wear socks... so if socks were an issue I'd want to know why before I told my daughter what to wear or what not to wear.

OT: My son doesn't have to wear socks. But, I did point out to him that socks make his shoes last longer, so if he doesn't want to wear socks, he has to buy new shoes out of his allowance, instead of having them provided for him. He's chosen to wear socks...


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## Starr (Mar 16, 2005)

I would talk with the teacher and see if you can find more info out. Did she by chance mean that your DD needed a bra for gym class? Is she assuming that DD wants to wear a bra and you aren't buying them? Find out exactly what is going on. But don't feel that you owe it to the teacher to make your DD wear a bra. You can simply tell her that they are in your DD's dresser and it is her decision to wear it that day or not.


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## mika85 (Aug 9, 2006)

I didn't read all the previous posts, so someone else probably said this already, but I believe that note could very easily be considered sexual harrassment.







: Unless of course "wearing a bra" is in the dress code, which I seriously doubt it is. My old highschool had a pretty strict one and there was nothing in there saying we had to wear a bra. I would show it to the school administrators and complain. That teacher would be in deep s*** too.

Looking forward to an update!!


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Nankay when you have a update for us could you put it in the thread title so that I can find it fast







these 2 threads have gotten super long.


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## sphinxie (Feb 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
Really, I agree with this. If it was my daughter, I would wonder why the teacher was staring at her chest. That, I guess, is what bugs me about this.

Oh yuck, I hadn't even thought of it that way. Which leads me to think this....

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mika85*
...I believe that note could very easily be considered sexual harrassment.







:...

is especially valid.


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## Bruden (Jan 24, 2006)

I was curious how the talk with the teacher went.


----------



## mommaduck (Sep 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bruden*
I was curious how the talk with the teacher went.

Ditto


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## trmpetplaya (May 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bruden*
I was curious how the talk with the teacher went.

Yes, we're all waiting in suspense here!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Joannarachel*
I like my shoes. I'm more comfortable in them....I wouldn't really care to step on something sharp or sticky while barefoot. And 7 months out of the year it's way too cold to go without shoes. Oh, and in this state, there is a law on the books requiring a close-toed shoe to operate a motor vehicle. Not a myth.

Well, definitely wear shoes if they're comfortable







Nobody has suggested otherwise. It's a personal decision. Just like wearing a bra should be. I know some women who are uncomfortable wearing a bra (me) and some who are uncomfortable NOT wearing a bra (my best friend). Do what works for you and more power to you!

MA has a law on the books about it being illegal driving barefoot? Wow... could you post a link? The link I found has this to say:

http://secure.aaasne.com/public/news...motorlaws.html

Quote:

Barefoot Driving: Operation of a motor vehicle by a driver with bare feet is permitted.
I'd love to know if they're wrong though!

Ah, _I'd_ have a field day with a podiatrist







My pediatrician uncle nearly put the children's shoes store out of business when he started his practise because he informed the parents that their children did NOT need stiff shoes in order to learn how to walk sooner









Shoes have their place, but they aren't necessary any more than bras are! Both are mostly worn for social reasons, but also by a few who feel more comfortable in them. Nobody should be forced to wear either one (or forced NOT to wear either one)! Back on topic at the end







:

love and peace.


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## srain (Nov 26, 2001)

I've always been confused when people say wearing bras is more "modest." Bras generally make smaller breasts look bigger, IMO- that was the only reason I ever wore one, anyway.







Is it just the nipple thing?

(Honestly, I think it's weird that this teacher was staring closely enough to realize the girl was not wearing a bra, assuming she's under a B-cup....)


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## Nankay (Jan 24, 2002)

I saw dd's teacher today. I said I was wondering why she felt the need to send a note home regarding dd's bra (or lack thereof). The teacher looked at me blankly and said, "because she's not wearing one." (Umm, ok, duh) I asked if that was a problem. Her answer was, "We wear bras when we have breasts. It's just a basic appropriate clothing/hygiene thing." I said I was trying very hard to not make this an issue for either dd or the teacher. I didn't want to force dd to wear a bra when she wasn't comfortable with one. The teacher again re-stated that it was a matter of dressing appropriately and that dd "would get used to wearing one ' if she had to everday. I told her that I would gently encourage dd to wear a bra or undershirt, but I would not FORCE her to wear one and left it at that.
I am determined not to make this a battle. The teacher can send home another note if she likes, but I think she knows now that she cannot force my dd to wear a bra just because she says so.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

I understand not wanting to make a battle out of it but I would probably still talk to the principle about it. Because her answer is just not good enough. What if she ends up saying something to your dd? If it were me I would just tell dd if she wants to wear one fine if not fine and leave it at that.

I hope things just die down tho and nothing else is said. It just irkes me that the teacher saw it her bussiness to say she needed one in the first place.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nankay*
Her answer was, "We wear bras when we have breasts. It's just a basic appropriate clothing/hygiene thing."

I replied in your other thread, but I overlooked one thing. I find the "we" wear bras when "we" have breasts thing just beyond annoying. No - "we" don't. I wear one, my sister usually wears one, my best friend wears one, my ex-SIL never wears one (I've known her since 1985, and I don't think she's ever owned one, except to nurse), my ex-MIL never wears one, etc., etc., That sickening "we do" meaning "I do" or "it's expected" makes me want to vomit. That teacher sounds like she was talking to a 6-year-old (only not the way _I'd_ talk to a 6-year-old).


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I agree that the principal needs to be in the loop. This is NOT an appropriate topic for a teacher to be sticking her nose in. What would you think if it was a male teacher?

-Angela


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## angelpie545 (Feb 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nankay*
I saw dd's teacher today. I said I was wondering why she felt the need to send a note home regarding dd's bra (or lack thereof). The teacher looked at me blankly and said, "because she's not wearing one." (Umm, ok, duh) I asked if that was a problem. Her answer was, "We wear bras when we have breasts. It's just a basic appropriate clothing/hygiene thing." I said I was trying very hard to not make this an issue for either dd or the teacher. I didn't want to force dd to wear a bra when she wasn't comfortable with one. The teacher again re-stated that it was a matter of dressing appropriately and that dd "would get used to wearing one ' if she had to everday. I told her that I would gently encourage dd to wear a bra or undershirt, but I would not FORCE her to wear one and left it at that.
I am determined not to make this a battle. The teacher can send home another note if she likes, but I think she knows now that she cannot force my dd to wear a bra just because she says so.

Good for you for sticking to your guns. You certainly were a lot nice than I would have been!







: I honestly think what the teacher did was extremely inappropriate and that she more than overstepped her bounds-but then again I'm the kind of girl who would burn her bra!







Really though, she has some nerve. I would have told her to keep her d*** eyes off my daughter's breasts and not to send notes home regarding them. If she says she "can't help noticing" then the least she can do is keep quiet about it. It's not the teachers place to ever comment about a student's underclothes or lack there of.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Can I just ask...what does a bra have to do with hygiene?


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## Bruden (Jan 24, 2006)

*sigh*

Is this the worst thing in the world? I mean, doesn't a teacher have enough actual, academic concerns rather that your daughter's breasts. Sheesh. I agree, with the person who mentioned taking it to the principal if another note is sent home.


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## trmpetplaya (May 30, 2005)

Good job! As a pp mentioned, you were way more polite than I would have been... so the reason she needs to wear a bra is because she's not wearing a bra? Circular reasoning, anyone?







: And the "WE wear bras when WE have breasts" thing







: Just curious, but did you wear a bra to the meeting? I wouldn't have







Boys have breasts too... just 'cause they're small shouldn't make them exempt







Wearing a Bra = Hygienic?







: That's a good one!

If the teacher had actually had a legitimate reason (can't think of one off the top of my head, but I'm sure there must be one







) then I would say to have a chat with your dd, but this is ridiculous! I would complain to the principal whether or not another letter is sent home, but that's just me







:

Yet another reason to homeschool...

love and peace.


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## Flor (Nov 19, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nankay*
I saw dd's teacher today. I said I was wondering why she felt the need to send a note home regarding dd's bra (or lack thereof). The teacher looked at me blankly and said, "because she's not wearing one." (Umm, ok, duh) I asked if that was a problem. Her answer was, "We wear bras when we have breasts. It's just a basic appropriate clothing/hygiene thing." I said I was trying very hard to not make this an issue for either dd or the teacher. I didn't want to force dd to wear a bra when she wasn't comfortable with one. The teacher again re-stated that it was a matter of dressing appropriately and that dd "would get used to wearing one ' if she had to everday. I told her that I would gently encourage dd to wear a bra or undershirt, but I would not FORCE her to wear one and left it at that.
I am determined not to make this a battle. The teacher can send home another note if she likes, but I think she knows now that she cannot force my dd to wear a bra just because she says so.

I would talk to the principal. If it isn't part of the dress code, I don't thinkit is any of her business. Does she force all kids to wear socks, too? Just because SHE thinks thats what you do, doesn't make it so!


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## Robin926 (Jun 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mika85*
Unless of course "wearing a bra" is in the dress code, which I seriously doubt it is. My old highschool had a pretty strict one and there was nothing in there saying we had to wear a bra.

My high school actually did have that in the dress code. I have no idea how they intended to enforce it *shudder*, and I don't know anyone who ever got written up for it, but it was there.

OP, I definitely agree with the pp's to bring this up to the principal. If bras aren't in your school's dress code, then she has no right trying to tell you or your DD how to dress! I mean, if she decided that "we" shouldn't wear the color orange, should no one wear orange? Ridiculous! I'm sure she has more pressing matters to worry about than whether or not her students wear bras.


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## Nora'sMama (Apr 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna*
I agree that the principal needs to be in the loop. This is NOT an appropriate topic for a teacher to be sticking her nose in. What would you think if it was a male teacher?


Ditto. The principal absolutely must be made aware of this.

I am outraged on your behalf, Nankay.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

I think I'd be asking to have my daughter switched to another class by sheer virtue of the fact that if she's talking down to YOU, just imagine how she talks to the kids!

I don't talk down to my children and don't like it when other people do. Heck, my high school guidance counselor used to talk in the third person, ie: "Miss McDonald thinks Jessica needs to blah blah blah," and it was mind boggling.

As for the bra situation, I'd probably be encouraging my kid not to wear one!


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## Coconut Chronicles (Aug 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm*
Can I just ask...what does a bra have to do with hygiene?

I was wondering the same thing......


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

"We" also don't wear bras. And since being pregnant and nursing, I have graduated to a D. (Was a C in my pre-mommy days).

Didn't have anything else to add that hasn't already been said 1000 times here... but SHEESH... well, I guess it's been said 1001 times now


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## frontierpsych (Jun 11, 2006)

How is it a clothing/hygene issue? It obviously has nothing to do with hygene. And I think most clothing rules are made for safety reasons-- like you have to wear shoes at school because you don't need toes getting smushed in the hallways-- kind of deal.


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## momto l&a (Jul 31, 2002)

The teacher ought to read Dressed to Kill; The Case Against Bras.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momto l&a*
The teacher ought to read Dressed to Kill; The Case Against Bras.

OT, but what does that say on the matter?


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

I would bring in the principle at this point. She didn't give a valid reason for the note....I could give her more room if she said that she is being teased, pain in gym, et...but not basic clothing and definantly not hygene.

I would ask the principle why is this teacher looking at my dd's breast. I am kind of bothered by this.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marsupialmom*
I would ask the principle why is this teacher looking at my dd's breast. I am kind of bothered by this.

Really, me too. It's creepy.


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## marketinggirl (Aug 24, 2006)

i don't know about your daughter, but a cousin of mine was visiting my house a few weeks ago. she's about 10 and she has little "nubs". anyway, she bent over or i saw something from the side and she didn't have anything under. i didn't want anyone else to get a peek so i offered her an undershirt and she gladly accepted. she seemed relieved. i wondered if she had been wanting a bra and her mom just wouldn't get her one. meant to have a talk w/ her, i think i might have mentioned it to dad b/c they're separated and i never see the mom.

my thing is that i wouldn't want anyone to see it and i wouldn't want to encourage adults (i.e. child molesters) to look. i'm a bit paranoid about that kind of stuff.

no hidden meaning , not trying to imply anything about you or your daughter. not trying to say you wouldn't buy something for her. just speaking about my experience.


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## momto l&a (Jul 31, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm*
OT, but what does that say on the matter?









Bras arent healthy for us to wear.


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## Bruden (Jan 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momto l&a*
Bras arent healthy for us to wear.

Please elaborate? I have heard how they can breakdown the tissue under the breast . . . is there more?


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## Nankay (Jan 24, 2002)

Just a quick note. DD does have bras and undershirts...she picked them out herself months ago. She just chooses not to wear them.


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## sphinxie (Feb 28, 2006)

Wow. How utterly inappropriate of her. She's entitled to her personal opinion, but in her capacity as teacher she should keep it to herself.

Sounds like a good idea to avoid making this into a battle.

But if you can send a short letter to the principal (mentioning that you don't want it to be a big issue), you will be alerting her or him that a teacher has done something inappropriate. Also, although you can very likely handle this fine on your own, eventually a parent may have to deal with this teacher in a context where it would help for there to be a track record with her that is known.

Also, you may want to send her a brief and neutral but to the point letter, so she knows not to follow up. Instead of waiting to see if she sends another note. Maybe not worth it if you're especially busy, but sometimes it's best to nip a problem in the bud.

Good luck!


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## fek&fuzz (Jun 19, 2005)

When I was a sophmore I had a male teacher tell me I shouldn't wear white t-shirts to school. He was right. I was sort of oblivious to how I looked and how my body had changed, but I think he did me a favor. It didn't seem creepy or inappropriate (I might have been a little taken aback at first since I couldn't figure out why he said it, then I was like, duh), just like a heads up. I think that day I had on a thin, worn out white T-shirt that I'm sure was almost see through, although I didn't realize it at the time.

It doesn't sound like your daughter is dressed inappropriately, though. Maybe the teacher feels if she herself can't go braless, no one should.


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## Village Mama (Jul 22, 2004)

Bras restrict lymph flow...


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## mamajody (Jul 3, 2004)

Slightly OT, but I am feeling peevish. I don't think the teacher was INITIALLY out of line here. As a former 6th grade teacher, you would not believe the conversations I have had to have with parents about hygiene, appropriate dress, ect... This teacher may have been fishing to see if mom was just not in touch with her DD's changing body/needs. Many parents aren't, unfortunately. The initial note sounds pretty neutral and inoffensive. OTOH, her comments at the meeting were asinine. If there is no social problem in the class, and mom made it clear that this was DD's choice FOR NOW, the matter should be droppede with out cracks about how "we" do things. That is just so smug and self righteous. UGH.

Now onto my OT comment, since dress code was brought up, we had no dress code provision for undergarments at my old school, but we would send girls home for wearing thongs that showed above their pants. You couldn't see any of their butts, just the strap of the thing. Aside from the issue of 8-11 year olds even having the OPTION of wearing them, never mind to school, do you think it was OK to send these girls home to change? What affect do you think seeing the girls underwaer had on the boys. The OP's DD doesn't wear a bra, her choice. But don't think the boys haven't noticed who does and who doesn't and who "should be" but isn't. Don't you remember having your bra snapped by some idiot? How about having them go to snap it, and you aren't wearing one? You wanna hear teasing? That would do it. Motifying.

Don't get me wrong, I think the teacher crossed the line at the meeting, but perhaps her initial action was for the child's benefit. It at least opened up communiccation with her hope about a potentially sensitive issue. Now mom will be vigilent about potential problems for her DD.


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## Elowyn (Nov 3, 2003)

"We're" not wearing a bra right now as "we" type...how unhygienic of "us."









The teacher's a dufus, and needs reported to her principal. At least that's how "we" do things.


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## Persephone (Apr 8, 2004)

Arg, I had a reply typed and I lost it! Anyway, info for those who wondered why not to wear bras: http://www.susunweed.com/An_Article_Bra-disease.htm

http://www.brafree.org/

http://www.all-natural.com/fibrocys.html


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamajody*
Now onto my OT comment, since dress code was brought up, we had no dress code provision for undergarments at my old school, but we would send girls home for wearing thongs that showed above their pants. You couldn't see any of their butts, just the strap of the thing. Aside from the issue of 8-11 year olds even having the OPTION of wearing them, never mind to school, do you think it was OK to send these girls home to change? What affect do you think seeing the girls underwaer had on the boys. The OP's DD doesn't wear a bra, her choice. But don't think the boys haven't noticed who does and who doesn't and who "should be" but isn't. Don't you remember having your bra snapped by some idiot? How about having them go to snap it, and you aren't wearing one? You wanna hear teasing? That would do it. Motifying.

I graduated in 91 we did have dress codes about undergarments being seen and/or worn as outwear. This was when baggy pants were getting popular but after the Madona wearing the bra outside thing.....

I never had a boy snap my bra, or even commented on my bra wearing or lack of wearing. Well once I did have a boy embarrassingly tell me I had a hole in the side of my shirt and he could see right through.





















He was so red and embarrassed.................but girls on the other hand. They teased me constantly I needed a bra when I didn't, ridicule me when I did wear bra/camasol when I didn't really need to, and tortured me until the boys stood up for me when the girls realized I hadn't got my period yet.

Also in schools today, well at least around here, bra snapping will get you suspended for sexual harrassement.


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## onlyzombiecat (Aug 15, 2004)

I do wear a bra whenever I am in public but I'd never assume every one else had to because of my own preferences. I really don't understand what a bra or undershirt would have to do with hygiene. It seems way out of line for a teacher to take it upon herself to dictate the underwear of her 11 year old students. If there is no dress code regarding undergarments, than I'd take it up with the principal.


----------



## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marsupialmom*
I graduated in 91 we did have dress codes about undergarments being seen and/or worn as outwear. This was when baggy pants were getting popular but after the Madona wearing the bra outside thing.....

I never had a boy snap my bra, or even commented on my bra wearing or lack of wearing. Well once I did have a boy embarrassingly tell me I had a hole in the side of my shirt and he could see right through.





















He was so red and embarrassed.................but girls on the other hand. They teased me constantly I needed a bra when I didn't, ridicule me when I did wear bra/camasol when I didn't really need to, and tortured me until the boys stood up for me when the girls realized I hadn't got my period yet.

Also in schools today, well at least around here, bra snapping will get you suspended for sexual harrassement.









to the boys you went to school with.


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## 4imprints (Jun 29, 2005)

I would just leave it as it is from now on. If it isn't in the rules then wait for her to go to the teacher. If you don't want to make it an issue then don't - you talked to her and made your point and that was it. I don't understand the bra thing either. Its one thing if the shirt is see-through (but even then just an undershirt would do) but its another when they can't be "seen".


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## Robin926 (Jun 25, 2005)

mamajody, not to pick on you, but one thing you said really bugged me.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamajody*
What affect do you think seeing the girls underwaer had on the boys.

I know you probably didn't mean a thing by it, but I am just sitting here thinking -- why should we teach our girls that boys' thoughts, feelings, and/or actions have a thing to do with how they choose to dress? If I choose to dress a certain way, and it affects a male in a certain way, it's not my fault. It is HIS choice to be affected, to have whatever thoughts he has. The way I dress, including whether or not to wear a bra or for my underwear to show (although I don't do the thong out of the pants thing anyway), is something that I do for myself, my own comfort, my own sense of style, whatever. It seems to be not a far cry from "Well, she deserved to be assaulted; she dressed like a slut!"

I just don't think it's a good idea to put other people's hangups onto our daughters like that. Especially when you can dress "appropriately" and keep your early-developing breasts in a bra, your age-appropriate underwear well hidden, and your developing body completely covered by shapeless clothing, and some boys are still going to tease, grope, or otherwise inappropriately harrass a girl. It really isn't about what she is or isn't wearing, kwim?


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

This is kinda OT, but the subject of "what the boys are thinking" has come up several times, so I thought I'd mention it.

When I was a teenager, I was into the heavy metal/hard rock scene. I mostly just got into the music, but occasionally I read some of the magazines. I remember reading an interview with someone from...Cinderella, maybe? He was asked what kind of girls he liked. I obviously don't remember his exact words, as this was about 20 years ago, but he commented that "rock hounds" (the "metal girls" - low cut shirts, tight jeans, lots of makeup, etc.) were a total turn off, and what really got him going was the "secretary or librarian" type. (Yes - I do realize this is major stereotyping.) He said that he liked long skirts, blouses that covered everything, glasses, little or no makeup, and severe hairstyles.

So....what are the boys thinking? Who knows? Depends on the boy, I'd say. I'm certainly not going to make dd think she's responsible for whatever's going through a boy's head.


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## Bruden (Jan 24, 2006)

Thanks everyone for the healthy breast links! I love this site.


----------



## woobysma (Apr 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*

So....what are the boys thinking? Who knows? Depends on the boy, I'd say. I'm certainly not going to make dd think she's responsible for whatever's going through a boy's head.

EXCELLENT point and I totally agree. I have boys, so it's a little different. But I think it's very important for girls to understand the difference between acting in a safe manner - don't walk around drunk alone downtown, etc. and drawing a line between their actions and the *re*actions of other people.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I also have boys. I know which girl ds1 had a crush on last year, and it wasn't the "hot" one that people would expect to make boys think "like that". She was a little on the chunky side by today's standards, dressed nicely, but not "sexy", etc. (Actually, she's a great girl, and I'd love it if he wound up with someone like her, but that's beside the point.)


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## Joannarachel (Dec 10, 2005)

"We" tried not wearing a bra today, because "we" are easily influenced by mamas at MDC. "We" did not like it at all, and "we" were grateful to harness in the girls with cloth and an underwire!








:

That being said, that teacher is so far over the line she can't see it anymore







:


----------



## Breathless Wonder (Jan 25, 2004)

"We" should try not wearing a bra for a period of two weeks or so. After years of wearing a bra, "we" found that it took some adjustment.


----------



## bobica (May 31, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Joannarachel*
"We" tried not wearing a bra today, because "we" are easily influenced by mamas at MDC. "We" did not like it at all, and "we" were grateful to harness in the girls with cloth and an underwire!








:

That being said, that teacher is so far over the line she can't see it anymore







:


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

We are not wearing a bra today as we do not want to get mastitis. Our ducts are plugged! We are the braless, you will be assimilated!


----------



## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Well we hate bras, but we have permerect nipples from nursing for so long, and we hate constantly looking "cold", so we wear a bra fairly often. Especially when our 6yo child tells us we are drooping.


----------



## Flor (Nov 19, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamajody*
Now onto my OT comment, since dress code was brought up, we had no dress code provision for undergarments at my old school, but we would send girls home for wearing thongs that showed above their pants. You couldn't see any of their butts, just the strap of the thing. Aside from the issue of 8-11 year olds even having the OPTION of wearing them, never mind to school, do you think it was OK to send these girls home to change? What affect do you think seeing the girls underwaer had on the boys. The OP's DD doesn't wear a bra, her choice. But don't think the boys haven't noticed who does and who doesn't and who "should be" but isn't. Don't you remember having your bra snapped by some idiot? How about having them go to snap it, and you aren't wearing one? You wanna hear teasing? That would do it. Motifying.

.

I was thinking of the dress code at my school. It says you can't have under garment showing. So, a kid might be more in line with the dress code by not wearing under garment than if they had something showing! I doubt the dress code says anything about this. I teach 6th grade, too, and I have to say I have never noticed the state of the breasts in our room, except when a girl breaks the dresscode with a low cut top!


----------



## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BelgianSheepDog*
We are the braless, you will be assimilated!

Resistance if futile







:


----------



## mamajody (Jul 3, 2004)

Robin926,

I know you aren't picking on me, but I want to look at an issue that you brought up in these passages:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Robin926*
If I choose to dress a certain way, and it affects a male in a certain way, it's not my fault. It is HIS choice to be affected, to have whatever thoughts he has. The way I dress, including whether or not to wear a bra or for my underwear to show (although I don't do the thong out of the pants thing anyway), is something that I do for myself, my own comfort, my own sense of style, whatever. It seems to be not a far cry from "Well, she deserved to be assaulted; she dressed like a slut!"

I just don't think it's a good idea to put other people's hangups onto our daughters like that. Especially when you can dress "appropriately" and keep your early-developing breasts in a bra, your age-appropriate underwear well hidden, and your developing body completely covered by shapeless clothing, and some boys are still going to tease, grope, or otherwise inappropriately harrass a girl. It really isn't about what she is or isn't wearing, kwim?

I think this is projecting very adult attitudes onto elementary school children. These kids don't have "hang-ups" yet, but they are learning them. We are talking about newly hormonal adolescents who are greatly influenced by media, and their peer group. I am not suggesting our daughters should be forced to dress in shapeless ugly clothing to prevent boys from having unclean thoughts. I was giving an example of young girls wearing sexually suggetive clothing to class. I should also have mentioned that boys in that school aren't allowed to sag their pants to the point where their boxers were visible. This due to young men literally hanging out of their pants. Frankly I am shaking my head at the thought that any parent would think it was ok for their ELEMENTARY school student to wear sexually suggestive clothing, or clothing of any kind in a sexually suggestive way, and call it for their comfort. I think situations like these are a distraction to both sexes at a time when they are not socially or emotionally equipped to cope with them, and I don't think it belongs in the classroom.

This being said, the OP's daughter hasn't done anything inappropriate, or immodest, but I think the teacher may have acted initially to protect her from situations like this.

BTW, I graduated in 94, so I was there for the same fashion crazes you were, and yes, when I was 10, 11, 12 I found it very confusing as to why ANYBODY would want to show their underwear, or why they were allowed to do it by their parents. I wasn't some prudish shrinking violet that never wore anything tight either. And I didn't wear a bra until 11 grade with the exception of gym class. Why? I didn't need it, and that was totally obvious to everyone. I didn't much care.

To the PP who mentioned how the boys stuck up for her: You had a great bunch of guys in your class, good for them, I am sure they have turned into wonderful men and fathers. I hope they teach their kids the way they were taught. The behavior of the girls in your class was just awful. I wonder why the teachers didn't take a more active role in stopping stuff like that. I know mine did, and I know I myself did. Often writing discreet notes home to parents in an attempt to head off real trouble before it happened. hmmmmmm


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## Nankay (Jan 24, 2002)

I had dd in for her annual physical and I must say we have the coolest ped. in the world. I brought up the teacher's note and she was PO'd







She said "there's no evidence that a bra is EVER necessary! That's sooo not any of her business! Do you want me to write a note?! " and "I am angry about that for you!"
Wow...hmm..I should have asked if she was posting on this board.

My DH saw the note but didn't say anything to me until tonight. He was waiting for my reaction. HE was PO'd too. Before I said anything, he said, "That's way out of her area to say anything like that, isn't it?! Is that any of her business??"

YAY hubby!


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## 2Sweeties1Angel (Jan 30, 2006)

I'd have to do like my mother always did when the teachers sent home "off" notes about me. One time the principal called my parents in for a conference because my hairstyle was "disrupting the school". I had hot pink hair, but there was nothing against it in the dress code so there wasn't really anything they could do. Anyway, Mom shaved all of her hair off in a crewcut and showed up for the meeting like that. Then she made the principal cry









I'd meet with the teacher very obviously not wearing a bra (pregnancy has made me an H cup--it's obvious if I don't wear one) and challenge her on why she thinks bras are necessary.


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## bandgeek (Sep 12, 2006)

I'm just







: at the updates. Seriously I'm speechless. I think you handled it well. I'm







at that teacher, though. First, she's staring pretty intently to even figure out your DD isn't wearing a bra, which is just creepy and gross. Second, she's pushing her beliefs on your family. Third, she's acting like it's no big deal and that's how everyone must think!

I wouldn't even know what to say in a situation like that.

Do they also require girls to shave their pits and legs? Are they going to dictate what type of menstrual supplies she uses?







:


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## RubyWild (Apr 7, 2004)

That teacher is way out of line! It sounds like it's her own personal issue. I remember getting pressure from other girls in my class when I was 11 and caving to that pressure, but the idea of having a teacher send home a note and then say some awful thing like, "We wear bras when we have breasts" is ridiculous. That is a choice that many make, like shaving their legs with a razor sharp piece of metal, but it's not mandatory.

I may have missed this, but is your Dd aware of what the teacher has said? I hope not. I would talk to the teacher and tell her not to mention it to my Dd. If I felt that she wasn't getting it, I would tell her that I was going to talk to her supervisor. I would make it an issue before I'd let her be twisted with my daughter's development.


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## echodonn (Jul 18, 2002)

I am constantly







then







then















I am so concerned over my previous behavior as a teacher before children. I am curious if the teacher has children? Because I thought that I knew kids until I had kids and then I realized I previously was full of















This thread is so important because we are the ultimate teacher of our children and we must remind our teacher friends while we respect their opinions that they(their opinions) are just that. I was always taught when talking to a parent about their child to say words like "What can *we* do to make this better," thus allowing the parent to make the descision.
Good Luck Nankay!


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## Nankay (Jan 24, 2002)

In answer to a couple of pp's questions...

No, DD doesn't know about the note. She would be mortified. The teacher has 3 kids all college age..she is in her late 40's .


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## RubyWild (Apr 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nankay*
In answer to a couple of pp's questions...

No, DD doesn't know about the note. She would be mortified. The teacher has 3 kids all college age..she is in her late 40's .

I think your instincts are right on this one and am very glad you're handling it so well. It's no small matter how women's breasts are perceived in this culture.

I was at a beach in Europe once and there happened to be an international motorcycle conference there with thousands of bikers. I saw a mom, dad, and pubescent girl standing on the upper board walk, all topless, just surveying the scene of so many bikes and bikers. Thye were all soooo very casual and unaware of their bodies and I thought how very self-conscious our culture virtually forces us to be, particularly as we are developing. I think it's terrible, yet people assume that's the way it _has_ to be. It does not.

I wish I would have been able to be so free when I was developing to just stand there topless around thousands of bikers, not to mention both my mom and dad. Wow, fantastic. None of the bikers thought anything about it, either. _"É normal!"_


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## roomformore (Apr 28, 2006)

I know many adult women who do not wear bras. (I only wish I could get away with it but I'm too large and uncomfortable w/o one







 ). I don't think it's anyone's business whether your daughter wears a bra or not. If the girl is being teased, etc., then I could see the teacher possibly mentioning it to you. I think the teacher should have offered an explanation for her request.

Oops..posted this w/o realizing there were 6 pages here. Anyway from just reading the first page, this is my opinion...


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## june'smom (Nov 8, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyMine*
And it is pretty sad to be willing to self define yourself so limitedly. .

All right, I was that girl with purple hair, and it was not at all ever limiting. It was very freeing to be able to express myself. Not to mention the reality check I got in terms of other people and their ability to be kind or not. I was and am glad to have seen that early on. Now I have normal hair and I shave my legs etc.. but because I want to. Not because I feel like I will be harrassed if I don't.

and the whole, the girl will be labeled as a slut. Come on... Girls label other girls as sluts for soooooo many reasons. And many of them are not based at all in reality. Instead of raising our girls to conform to the patriarcal notion of womanhood, let's let them find their own path. And let them decide if they want to wear a bra or not.

I never wore one until my breasts got large during pg and I don't think I was damaged or sexually preyed upon. I think the issue here is the need for other women to be in line with your comfort zone, which apparently does not include free breasts.

Louise

eta that I read all of the posts now lol. should have done that first. I totally agree with the way the op is dealing with this. I am still a little shocked with the other side here. Wow, I would have thought that on a NFL site the reaction would be different.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

You know, I got labeled as a narc when I switched from Catholic School to public because, after eleven years of wearing skirts, I wasn't comfortable wearing pants. Should I perhaps have dressed more provocatively to keep people from talking? I think it's ridiculous bordering on dangerous to teach our children that they are responsible for others thoughts.


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## roisin84 (Sep 7, 2006)

I don't understand why people would particularly care that boys are having sexual thoughts about their daughter, especially since it's pretty inevitable regardless of what she wears and there's nothing you can do about it anyway. There's nothing _wrong_ with having sexual thoughts about other people, finding some girl in your class attractive. She's probably having sexual thoughts about the boys too.


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## BellinghamCrunchie (Sep 7, 2005)

When I was 13, I was called into the principal's office for not wearing a bra. At first she said she was sending me home, then she relented and said I could stay until the school bus took me home, but beginning tomorrow I had to wear a bra. Then she very kindly asked me what was the problem; did I not have any clean bras? I was so completely ashamed and embarrassed by that point that I couldn't talk, so I nodded. She then proceeded to instruct me as to how to wash bras by hand and dry them so that I would have one to wear tomorrow.

I left the principal's office and went back to my classroom. Somehow all the kids new about it. The whole day long they whispered things in my ear, such as, "Did Danny take your bra?" (Danny was a very poor child who was picked on constantly by the other children), they passed notes to me, they looked at me and snickered. I spent the day with my head down, trying to stop crying, holding my books against my chest so no one could see my chest. It was by far the worst day of my life in school. It would have been better if I HAD been sent home.

My mother got really mad and called the principal and gave her a piece of her mind about me not needing to wear a bra and it wasn't the school's business, etc.

It didn't help me. What would have helped me was for my mother to help me find shirts that were thick enough you couldn't tell I wasn't wearing a bra, or some undershirts, or even try to find a comfortable bra for me. I still had to go back to school. I still had to face those kids, who I imagined were looking at my chest every day from that time on to see if I was wearing something or not. I was terrified in gym class to change my clothes because we didn't have private dressing rooms.

I don't know why I'm telling this. I'm certainly not in favor of forcing any child to wear something they are uncomfortable wearing. I guess I worry that other students, and teachers, can be cruel, and passive-aggressive, and make a child's school experience miserable even though the parent of that child is in the right and rightfully stood up for their child.


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## LoveBeads (Jul 8, 2002)

Sooooo.....are we thinking that if girls wear bras, boys won't have sexual thoughts?


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## Joannarachel (Dec 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BellinghamCrunchie*
When I was 13, I was called into the principal's office for not wearing a bra. At first she said she was sending me home, then she relented and said I could stay until the school bus took me home, but beginning tomorrow I had to wear a bra. Then she very kindly asked me what was the problem; did I not have any clean bras? I was so completely ashamed and embarrassed by that point that I couldn't talk, so I nodded. She then proceeded to instruct me as to how to wash bras by hand and dry them so that I would have one to wear tomorrow.

I left the principal's office and went back to my classroom. Somehow all the kids new about it. The whole day long they whispered things in my ear, such as, "Did Danny take your bra?" (Danny was a very poor child who was picked on constantly by the other children), they passed notes to me, they looked at me and snickered. I spent the day with my head down, trying to stop crying, holding my books against my chest so no one could see my chest. It was by far the worst day of my life in school. It would have been better if I HAD been sent home.

My mother got really mad and called the principal and gave her a piece of her mind about me not needing to wear a bra and it wasn't the school's business, etc.

It didn't help me. What would have helped me was for my mother to help me find shirts that were thick enough you couldn't tell I wasn't wearing a bra, or some undershirts, or even try to find a comfortable bra for me. I still had to go back to school. I still had to face those kids, who I imagined were looking at my chest every day from that time on to see if I was wearing something or not. I was terrified in gym class to change my clothes because we didn't have private dressing rooms.

I don't know why I'm telling this. I'm certainly not in favor of forcing any child to wear something they are uncomfortable wearing. I guess I worry that other students, and teachers, can be cruel, and passive-aggressive, and make a child's school experience miserable even though the parent of that child is in the right and rightfully stood up for their child.









You poor baby!


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## woobysma (Apr 20, 2004)

BC!! That's aweful! School can be *SO* hard on pre-teens.


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## Ellien C (Aug 19, 2004)

not caught up with all the posts, but "we" haven't worn a bra since we found the webpage

www.007b.com

and "we" work in a conservative office where "proper undergarments are required." "We" wear jackets over all of our blouses now and "we" are EVER so much more comfortable. Our nipples are quite erect, too these days.

BellinghamC - what an awful story. I'm so sorry for you. That's a terrible thing to have happened.

To the OP, you sound like a GREAT mom. You've handled it really well.

I'd like to think I'd be encouraging my DD to do some of her own research on the history of bras, undergarments and forcing women to conform to different image ideals (see The Body Project - book and website) but as my DD is only 3, I don't really know what I'd do in your situation. Have we told you enough what a great mom you are?


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## Synchro246 (Aug 8, 2005)

I haven't read anything but the OP and one update (it was all I could find)

I just had to throw my 2 pennies in the pot.

It is IMO none of the teacher's business. She has hang ups with boobs.
I think if more people saw boobs giggle- THE WAY THEY JUST DO- we might have an easier time accepting BF as adults.

To the teacher: WOMEN HAVE BOOBS! THEY JIGGLE. THEY SWAY. THEY POKE OUT. GET OVER IT!

I get so mad.

When I went to midwifery school we talked about bras and the hangups that people have about "seeing" free breasts. We all agreed that it's silly. Fast forward a few months. We received a dress code from the school saying that we need to all wear bras. I WAS






















We were also told to keep our legs covered or shaved.
UM! I'm sorry, but if a midwife can't be comfortable with the human body in it's true form how can we expect women to trust their bodies are normal.

I would be tempted to meet with the teacher (without a bra on myself) and say- I'm sorry you feel uncomfortable with the sight of natural development and breasts. We don't accept the American cultural fear of breasts. If my daughter becomes uncomfortable not wearing a bra she may choose to wear one.

Not wearing a bra isn't a matter of hygiene or decency.

This is just me.
I had to rant or I would die.
I do think you handled things well.

I LOVE the website www.007b.com
IT ROCKS


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## trmpetplaya (May 30, 2005)

"we" haven't worn a bra since "we" became pregnant with dd last year. "We" worked part-time at a conservative office also where appropriate undergarments was specified in the dress code until dd was 5 months old. "We" always wore (and still wear) spaghetti strap tanks (withOUT built in bras) under "our" shirts









BC - that's terrible!







So many reasons to homeschool...

love and peace.


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