# Playing in the toilet - sad sign of a bigger problem



## blessed

Dd has developed a fascination with playing in toilet water. She sticks her hands in up to the shoulder, splashes all over her clothes, so forth. I've told her multiples of times not to do it and why not, but now she has started to do it in a sneaky way, which is a new behavior for her.

She always readily admits to what she's done, doesn't lie, in fact offering it up out of the blue at times (holding up her hands and saying "potty, mama!" When I ask, why did you play in the potty, dd, when you know you're not supposed to? she answered 'mama not here'







.

I'm not sure if I'm just reading into things but I've had a lot of 10+ hour work days in the past couple of weeks and it seems as though she's been having some degeneration in her behavior. She's in preschool for about 7 hours (9 am to 4 pm) on weekdays and normally I was with her most of the rest of the time, but lately I've been having to go in at 6am and not home until after 5pm usually. She's with her dad the rest of the time, and he's a great, attentive papa, but she definitely is less mature and thoughtful in her behaviors when she's been with him alot.

Today she slipped into the restroom while I was folding clothes and did it again. When I looked over she was checking to see if I was watching in a sneaky way. She wouldn't come out when I asked her to and I went in to get her. She still wouldn't walk out with me gently guiding her with my hand on top of her head (which she normally would respond to) and I reached down and took her arm to pull her along (in an awful authoritarian way, like I never do - yuck, yuck, yuck







). She got angry and jerked her arm free saying 'no arm! No carry! Walk!' But then she got down on her hands and knees and wouldn't leave so picked her up and carried her out of the room. She tried to run back into the room and I wouldn't let her. Then she just cried and I held her until she stopped. Ugh, the whole thing felt just horrible.

I guess we can just put locks up on the door or something, but I worry about this unhappy defiance. She normally likes to test her independence, but we've always managed to handle situations with humor and understanding, and not angry unhappiness. Or maybe I'm the one who's angry and she's just reacting to it







?

Hoping for some perspective on how I could have dealt with this more effectively.


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## CelticMomma

You did say she's two, right? This is perfectly normal behavior. She's SUPPOSED to want to play with the toilet water. She may know you don't like it, but it has nothing to do with defiance. Her impulses are stronger than her desire to please you, so she's just going to follow them. She may remember occasionally that you don't want her to do it, thus, the perceived sneakiness, although, I'm betting she's not being sneaky so much as wondering when she's going to be stopped from this wonderfully fun activity. Splashing in water is one of the great joys in life for kids, and I'm sure she has no idea why you would prevent her from playing with such a tempting amusement.

I'd suggest some toilet locks. There are a number of different varieties, but the ones that are most effective generally require a dual action on the lock. "Hold this down while sliding this lever to the back of the toilet seat" or something like that. It's not just the yuck factor, it's a safety factor. Kids have been known to topple in, get stuck and drown cause their legs aren't long enough to pull themselves back out.

And, then buy her a water table and spend some time splashing with her when you're not working. Ignore the unfolded clothes and just let loose your inner child. It will help with the anger you expressed concern about, and it will be a lot of fun for both of you.


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## chfriend

Yup. She's two. She's telling you she needs water play. There was a great pvc pipe water table plan posted on the forum a couple of years ago...

She's sneaking to meet her need for this kind of stimulation. I suspect that if you meet that need and tell her honestly that you didn't realize that she needed to play in water, so you've set her some up, it'll help reestablish everyone's humor.

Have you talked to her dad about how he handles it?


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## allgirls

absolutely normal and right on schedule









Give her clean water to splash in and let her at it!

The bathtub is so fun at that age.

She will grow out of it..the novelty will wear off and she will move on to toher things..wall drawing, diaper bum cream painting and so on.

It's a bit of a shock to a mama when a normally reasonable young child suddenly becomes more defiant and asserts her independance..that's what's happening here...don't take it personally..it's part of the growing up process..the transition from toddler to preschooler.

"She always readily admits to what she's done, doesn't lie, in fact offering it up out of the blue at times (holding up her hands and saying "potty, mama!" When I ask, why did you play in the potty, dd, when you know you're not supposed to? she answered 'mama not here' " I think this is a clue...she does this when you are not here because she knows you will stop the fun.

cheers


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## mmfoote

I agree with the above posters. Your daughter is not trying to be defiant. Water is just fasinating to kids and she is expressing a need to be able to play in it.

Your daughter needs you to show her acceptable forms of water play, not just tell her "no." Tell her, "We don't play in toilet water, but we can play with water in the sink. Let mama fill it for you."

In the winter, I use a bin on top of a small table and fill it with either regular or soapy water, depending on what my son wants (I just use baby shampoo, in case he touches his eyes). I put an old sheet under the table, but that is just more to prevent him from slipping in the water that gets on the floor.

In the summer, you can fill up anything and stick it outside - baby pools, watering cans, pails,bins. My son will even go outside after it rains and empty the water out of the tin cans to be recycled.

Another thing that works well for us is to have him "wash dishes" while I am working in the kitchen. I turn the water on a very slow trickle and give him all of the metal and plastic dishware that needs washing. Its a great way for him to stay hydrated too because he loves to sample water out of all different containers.

Or, if you have a bathtub (we don't), give her extra tub time.

Anyway, it is definitely normal for a child to want to play in water. It seems to me that the only reason she's playing in the toilet is because she can reach it and doesn't have any other acceptable form of water play available to her. I would imagine that you wouldn't need toilet locks. Once you set up some acceptable forms of water play and she know that you are working "with" her instead of against her water play needs, I would think she would stop going to the toilet to play.

Good luck!


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## The4OfUs

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls*
It's a bit of a shock to a mama when a normally reasonable young child suddenly becomes more defiant and asserts her independance..that's what's happening here...don't take it personally..it's part of the growing up process..the transition from toddler to preschooler.









: I really wouldn't worry about it too much, about being sneaky or anything...mine was relatively easygoing and easy to redirect/distract/what have you until he was about 18 mos....then......well....







Kids are so different; some do it early, some do it later, some don't do it much at all, but all kids in some way at some time start to assert themselves and their independence, which can be a shocker to parents, especially if it happens "later" (after 2, 2-1/2) and with a previously easygoing child

I think you just need to find other tools you may not have needed to use before. It probably is goign to take a little while for you to shift gears, and that is probably goign to result in some frustration from both of you...I know our transition was a little bumpy...and there are still bumps, for sure.








it'll all be OK, I promise!!

BTW, I think you handled the bathroom thing OK, even though it didn't feel OK at the time...I usually scoop him up though after the first attempt to guide him away fails, that may be a thing you need to start doing too. It's probably just going to be an adjustment for both of you in how to manage interactions with her new development.

I second the idea of toilet locks (used them for about 3-4 months) and/or doorknob locks (still use these), and definitely getting her water play time. DS is in the kitchen sink at least 2 times a day, plus bathtime, he LOVES water too.


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## blessed

Thanks for all the replies.

We actually do have a sand and water table which she plays with almost daily. She has stepstools which let her reach the bathroom sinks, so she also frequently runs the water and plays there. I'm also pretty tolerant of playing in the dogs' water bowl, the bathtub (she took two baths yesterday), and we have a hottub which she 'swims' in about 3 days per week. So I don't think it's so much an unfulfilled water fascination as a purposeful disobedience.

And that's okay too. I understand her need to define her autonomy and I see her striving for independence in a myriad of ways on a regular basis. It just seems as though in this circumstance it's not a happy and curious exploraton so much as a statement of her frustration.

I think I just feel miserable and guilty about being away from her too much







: .


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## The4OfUs

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blessed*
It just seems as though in this circumstance it's not a happy and curious exploraton so much as a statement of her frustration.

I think I just feel miserable and guilty about being away from her too much







: .

It could be a little scary and frustrating to *her* for her to start to realize that she has different thoughts and ideas and feelings than you do, and that could be part of the frustration vs. happiness coming through on her part...like she *knows* this is what's supposed to be happening, but it's all new and a little scary, you know what I mean?

I don't know if I explained that well or not, but I wouldn't take the frustration as a bad thing, necessarily. I mean, I wouldn't look for ways to make her frustrated, but I think it's valuable for her to see that it's OK for her to think differnetly and work things out, and get over the frustrations.

And you're probably right about your own feelings too about being away from her more, making you feel







: . Remember to be as gentle with yourself as you are with her.


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## loraxc

I think a toilet lock really is the solution here. Worked for us.


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## Roar

I agree with the suggestion to get a lock and give plenty of chance for water play. I don't think seeing behavior as defiant has ever lead anywhere productive. Let it go.


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## wonderwahine

i agree with getting some toilet locks and a safe area for water play. She might be having some minor regression in behaviour because of daycare, but shes probably just testing her limits more since shes seeing other kids do similar. She could be also looking for more attention now that your not with her all the time, and any attention is good attention sometimes.

but like other pp's, i think its just age appropriate behaviour and she will grow out of it, in the meantime, put the locks on the pottys.


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## Plummeting

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Roar*
I agree with the suggestion to get a lock and give plenty of chance for water play. I don't think seeing behavior as defiant has ever lead anywhere productive. Let it go.









:

Getting plenty of water play doesn't make the toilet, in and of itself, a less interesting thing to play with. My DD has plenty of toys, but she still steals all the dog's toys from him and plays with them herself. Sometimes kids want something they can't/shouldn't/aren't allowed to have. It doesn't mean they're being defiant, just for the sake of being defiant. Hell, I'm an adult and I still want things I don't need - I have lots of shoes, but I still buy a new pair whenever I see one I really like. And sometimes I even still want things that aren't good for me - I just bought a cookie at the mall last night.

When you asked your daughter why she was playing in the water, I seriously doubt her response meant that it was because you were gone too much. Even if that were the reason, a kid that age just doesn't have the ability to understand that she's acting a certain way because she wants her mom home more. It's much more likely that either a) she's heard you say something like that, so was repeating it or b) she only meant that she played in the water because you weren't there to stop her at the very moment she went into the bathroom. I don't believe at all that she meant it was because you aren't home enough. Two-year-olds just don't reason things out like that. I'm not saying your daughter isn't intelligent, but she's TWO.

The behavior is normal. I think you're surprised by it because you believed that your discipline style would result in a perfectly well-behaved child who never did things that upset you more than once. I definitely recall you displaying an attitude like that in your past posts. Everyone tried to warn you that you were eventually going to be in for a little surprise, but you didn't believe it. Your daughter is doing the NORMAL two-year-old things people told you she would eventually start doing. Two-year-olds are frustrating sometimes. ALL kids are frustrating sometimes. She probably is missing you a lot right now, but I don't believe for one minute that this is the cause of her newfound toilet water fascination.


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## DevaMajka

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Roar*
I don't think seeing behavior as defiant has ever lead anywhere productive. Let it go.

I love that!!

I agree with Donosmommy that sometimes the "best" thing to do is to just scoop dc up, and get on with it. Not "best" as in ideal (patiently finding a mutually agreeable solution would be best). But best as in, the best you can manage at that particular moment.
If I find myself getting frustrated that ds is doing something I don't want him to do, I physically stop it. Before I get too frustrated. If I do that, I'm much more likely to think clearly in a minute or two, and realize that there's a mutually agreeable solution. Mind you, my goal would be to find the solution before getting frustrated or coercing in any way. But, ya gotta do what you gotta do.


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## captain crunchy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Plummeting*

The behavior is normal. I think you're surprised by it because you believed that your discipline style would result in a perfectly well-behaved child who never did things that upset you more than once. I definitely recall you displaying an attitude like that in your past posts. Everyone tried to warn you that you were eventually going to be in for a little surprise, but you didn't believe it. Your daughter is doing the NORMAL two-year-old things people told you she would eventually start doing. Two-year-olds are frustrating sometimes. ALL kids are frustrating sometimes. She probably is missing you a lot right now, but I don't believe for one minute that this is the cause of her newfound toilet water fascination.

True dat.

Completely normal, completely age and developmentally appropriate and completely not a big deal in my book (except for safety reasons like pp's said). Actually, other than the drowing factor, toilet water in many cases has been tested as containing LESS fecal matter and urine deposits as many tap waters or water in restaurants! I would put a lock on the toilet if it bothers you, and let the rest go.

I also agree with the pps who said that approaching a situation where one views a two year old toddler as deliberately sneaky, defiant, or otherwise "bad" terms, is not productive at all (imo).


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## mmfoote

Quote:

We actually do have a sand and water table which she plays with almost daily. She has stepstools which let her reach the bathroom sinks, so she also frequently runs the water and plays there. I'm also pretty tolerant of playing in the dogs' water bowl, the bathtub (she took two baths yesterday), and we have a hottub which she 'swims' in about 3 days per week. So I don't think it's so much an unfulfilled water fascination as a purposeful disobedience.
Oops! I didn't realize your daughter already had that much water playtime







So, yeah, I would get a toilet lock in that situation.


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## pianojazzgirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *captain crunchy*
toilet water in many cases has been tested as containing LESS fecal matter and urine deposits as many tap waters or water in restaurants! .

I will never enjoy a glass of water again....


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## IncaMama

i agree with plummeting and CC.


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## blessed

Thanks for all the advice, everyone, much appreciated (Plummeting's brief lapse into OT snarkiness aside).

I'm starting to better wrap my mind around what is truly 'the bigger problem' that I'm fretting over. I can step back and see that, as most of you have pointed out, this pittance of an infraction is tiny in the realm of two year old misbehavior. Probably I've just focused on it as I have struggled to identify what it is I'm experiencing and feeling.

Basically, the problem is that I've gone from spending about 7 to 8 hours per day of my daughter's waking hours with her to about two hours per day. That's just not enough time to parent a child. Bottom line.

The problem is that my work partner relocated across country and bailed out a month early. So I'm on call 24 hours per day, 7 days per week for almost a month straight. Plus having to pick up the workload of 2 people, which just keeps me in the hospital longer. I'm about 2 weeks into this nightmare with about 10 days to go. After that, I'll still be busy, but at least there'll be some breaks in the action. And after my commitment here is fulfilled, I plan to take a position with tight limits on my work hours. But just gotta get through this somehow.

Thanks for listening and for the all the support







.


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## plantmama

You are so lucky your dd has not been doing more, earlier, worse. Ds has experimented with throwing glasses (had to get plastic ones for him), throwing food, going just about anywhere "off limits", running in the road....and I have "had" to drag him away kicking and screaming because 2 y/os just don't want to patiently work out a solution sometimes and sometimes it HAS to stop quickly.

The only solution I have found is to make it impossible for him to do the things that were unsafe or destructive, we usually cannot work out the problem because as pps have said at 2 they just want to do things their way sometimes. I also look for times when he CAN do things his way- even if it something I don't see as desirable- so that he express that defiance, but we can also talk about it calmly and both feel good about it. For example, sometimes I say one video is enough, and he turns on the tv, so we watch pbs for a short time and then we're both ready to move on. Or sometimes I say it's time to go and he wants to stay, so we stay...etc.
Also if he asks me not to do something, I will listen unless it is something I really need to do.
Sorry this got so long. Hope you get some shorter work days soon. It sounds like a drag.


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## BellinghamCrunchie

Our DD, 18 months, has started this as well. Funny thing is she won't go near the wading pool or water table I set up for her, and she has managed to defeat every toilet lock I have put on the toilet. She's strong and manages to break them.

I keep the toilet really clean now - I clean it and then we go play together. I play with cups in the tub and she splashes back and forth between the tub and the toilet. I'm hoping she'll get over it soon. I also had to recaulk the linoleum to make sure the floor underneath wasn't getting wet. We also still take baths together.

Seems like whenever I try to indicate that something is "off limits" it just makes it all the more enticing, and what has worked best for us is to either remove the off limits thing entirely so she can't see it, or find a way to make it safe for her.


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## Plummeting

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blessed*
Thanks for all the advice, everyone, much appreciated (Plummeting's brief lapse into OT snarkiness aside).

I didn't find it at all off topic, nor was I being snarky. I was telling the truth.


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## royaloakmi

Toliet lock.

I got one b/c not only was I not thrilled about my twins playing in the toliet then sticking their hands in my mouth, but I was also concerned about the possibility of drowning (not likely, I know, but our house isn't just babyproofed, it's "twinproofed")


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## IncaMama

again, i agree with plummeting.


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## DreamsInDigital

Ahh yes. Two is a fun age. I had to get a toilet lock for a while too. My DS who will be three in September thought toilet water was great fun. Ewwww.


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## blessed

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BellinghamCrunchie*
I keep the toilet really clean now - I clean it and then we go play together. I play with cups in the tub and she splashes back and forth between the tub and the toilet. I'm hoping she'll get over it soon. I also had to recaulk the linoleum to make sure the floor underneath wasn't getting wet. We also still take baths together.

I think this approach rings most true with my usual tactics - just adjusting for the fact that dd is a playful toddler and going with the flow. Thanks, hearing these words jolted me back into perspective







.

I think I'll just keep the john extra clean, relax and wash dd's hands when she's done splashing.

Toilet locks are probably a good idea too, but I doubt we'd do a good job of keeping up with them for very long.


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## allgirls

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blessed*
I think this approach rings most true with my usual tactics - just adjusting for the fact that dd is a playful toddler and going with the flow. Thanks, hearing these words jolted me back into perspective







.

I think I'll just keep the john extra clean, relax and wash dd's hands when she's done splashing.

Toilet locks are probably a good idea too, but I doubt we'd do a good job of keeping up with them for very long.

I am betting when it is no longer forbidden and she gets to play...she will get over it much much sooner...there is something tempting about the forbidden(to adults as well as kids)..it's our will exerting itself or something.

cheers


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## georgia

blessed--hope things are going better for you. It must be really hard with all your extra time spent on-call and at work. I know when I've been stressed out, sometimes even the simple little things threw me for a loop.

Wanted to add a bit of lighthearted and well-meaning personal perspective: I have an almost two year old who LOVES to splash and play in the toilet and a 3.5 yr. old who doesn't quite *get* the flushing aspect after he uses the potty. Put these two together, and I think y'all get the yuck factor here


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