# He REFUSES to do his school/homework. I just want to cry! Positive Feedback NEEDED!



## Tummy (Feb 24, 2005)

Hope this get a lot of responces here... I was not sure where exactly to put it.

History:
DS-11.. has not lived with me 100%.
He is a very sensitive child.
He refuses to do his class work and homework.
Here it is Friday morning and he still has not completed homework from MONDAY!!!







:
This is a new school, new friends this year.
DS says he wants to be homeschooled, and I just cannot do that financially, not to mention that he will NOT write 20 spelling words when I ask him to get his work done!

I dont know what to do!!!

It is not a matter of the work being 'too hard' for him, he just refuses to do it.

I have tried many things.. rewards for getting it done (playstation, gameboy, ect.)
I have tried taking everything away (TV, raido, above mentioned.)
I have sat with him and made a game out of doing his homework (see who could write spelling words 4X each faster, same with the math.)

I am just at a loss.

I can yell at him to get it done, I can beg him to get it done, I can demand that he get it done, I can cry and ask him to get it done.. NOTHING WORKS!!

He is not getting his work at school done either.

This makes it look as though there is no participation from home, and that is not true!

I have asked for a P/T meeting ASAP to see what exactly is going on at school.

DS would rather sit in his room from time he get home til he goes to bed doing NOTHING (minus dinner and bath).

I am so at a loss.. HELP

Any suggestions?


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## EStraiton (Sep 6, 2005)

Have you considered that maybe there is a reason he is refusing to do the work? Maybe he is having trouble understanding it or reading something, etc.?

I know here we have a great place that opened up that Tutors kids after school - maybe you'll have to sign him up - he may be less likely to resist someone who is not mom or dad.?.?

Good luck!
xoxo


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## punkinsmommy (Apr 28, 2006)

That sounds like my neice. She is younger (9), but has been refusing to do homework for 2 years now. It is a constant struggle for my SIL. DH and I feel that she refuses because she is trying to control her mother. I don't mean that in a bad way. SIL and her EX (they are divorced but still live together) have a very out of control life. I don't think my neice knows, most days, whether she is coming or going. When she refuses to do things like homework, chores, etc DH and I can see that she's just trying to get some kind of control in her life.

I don't know if that's the case with your ds though. Maybe he feels like this is one way he can assert himself in his life? You said he doesn't live with you all the time. Maybe that leads to a sense of being out of control for him?

I don't know. I hope you find the answers you're looking for.


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## Tummy (Feb 24, 2005)

I know that a lot of this has to do with his life.
He has had trama after trama from the word 'go'.

He is in therapy.

I am at my end with this... I find myself getting super frustrated with him not doing his work and just want to pull my own hair out.

He is not laking in understanding.. he can tell me 'exactly' what needs to be done... and I do not see him having a strugle with understanding that he needs to write his spelling words 4X each.

I just dont know what to do and I am so frustrated. I need help and dont know where to get it, how to get it, or what help is really out there.

His therapist does not seem to be helping... not much has changed.

I am just lost! Afraid of my child not becoming an independant/healthy/productive adult!


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tummy*
I have asked for a P/T meeting ASAP to see what exactly is going on at school.

Great! Good thinking.

It's the first week of school, right? Is he having some trouble making the social adjustment in the first week?

Or maybe he hasn't had any math or spelling tests yet.

It is a crummy way to learn, that kind of drilling; it's very boring. It's great that you are willing to jazz it up for him.

ETA: I see that you are worried that this is the result of the many traumas of his early life, a psychological malajustment, etc. Calm down a bit. It's not abnormal for a child not to want to do homework! Ramp down your anxiety. It's just homework. You and he can work this out. He may have other horrible issues, but this is not so weird. It's just going to require patience, negotiation and a willingness to try different alternatives.


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## punkinsmommy (Apr 28, 2006)

I don't know that I have any good advice for you. I'm sorry you are going through this.









Have you talked with the school psychologist? Maybe they can help?


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## Tummy (Feb 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *punkinsmommy*
Have you talked with the school psychologist? Maybe they can help?









Right, there is not one


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## punkinsmommy (Apr 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tummy*







Right, there is not one

Ugh. Well that's no good then, huh?


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## frowningfrog (Aug 25, 2005)

My thoughts...

He maybe having trouble adjusting to all the recent changes in his life; home; school; all that ..yk..
My guess this is his way of dealing with it. Him going into his room and not wanting to do anything maybe a sign he is not adjusting well on the inside.
I dont know how to get him to do his work but ..I can only suggest as a friend who is worried for him and you that to just try to talk to him and see how he is dealing. Dont push it but tell him its ok to not feel good about all the changes right now and and its ok to be able to take the time to adjust and you are there to talk about anything..I know that he knows that and you know that but just to reiterate it to him could make some difference..

Much love


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

Sometimes children who have been through trauma can benefit from unschooling. Unschooling doesn't cost very much money, at first the child just gets to stay home and decompress from school. Children who have been through trauma, their brains just sometimes shut down. They can benefit from staying home and vegging out for a year. We call the transition from public school to unschooling deschooling. At first, you leave them home and make no requirements of them, just let them play and do whatever they want. Think of it as a vacation. Then, they get to pursue whatever interests them educationally. Also, children who have been through trauma, we are finding need extra help sometimes to get their brains working back again. There are things that can be done, brain exercises. The Dance Dance Revolution game for the Xbox (also other gaming systems like PS2) , stimulates the brain activity that has been effected by trauma (it's the poor mans interactive metronome), which is a treatment that works for children who have been through trauma and their brains have shut down.
We checked out a book from the library called brain gym. It is from interlibrary loan. It contains simple exercises that stimulate the brain. Also we are doing one hour of exercise a day which requires balance. Bike riding, rebounder, skateboard, Dance Dance Revolution, Brain Gym, Scooter, and workout videos. Exercises that require balance stimulate the parts of the brain that are damaged by trauma.

We recovered from trauma by remembering two words in everything we did: simple and sacred. Any thing that did not embody these two words, we removed from our lives.

Even if you decided to keep him in school, what helped us was to lower that bar of expectation. Set it on the ground so to speak. So, what really bad will happen if he doesn't get his homework done? If he gets by with D's, he will pass this year, KWIM? He could still do the brain exercises and try to rest and relax while at home afterschool, but it would be more challenging.

Good Luck Mama


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## Tummy (Feb 24, 2005)

Thanks Christine..









Bestbirths, I am just amazed at your post.. thank you so much!


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## LovemyBoo (Oct 11, 2004)

I agree, talk to his teachers and, if you can, his therapist and see about lowering everyone's expectations for awhile. He may not be emotionally capable of the work, right now. Lots of luck to you!


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## pinkmilk (Nov 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths*
Sometimes children who have been through trauma can benefit from unschooling. Unschooling doesn't cost very much money, at first the child just gets to stay home and decompress from school. Children who have been through trauma, their brains just sometimes shut down. They can benefit from staying home and vegging out for a year. We call the transition from public school to unschooling deschooling. At first, you leave them home and make no requirements of them, just let them play and do whatever they want. Think of it as a vacation. Then, they get to pursue whatever interests them educationally. Also, children who have been through trauma, we are finding need extra help sometimes to get their brains working back again. There are things that can be done, brain exercises. The Dance Dance Revolution game for the Xbox (also other gaming systems like PS2) , stimulates the brain activity that has been effected by trauma (it's the poor mans interactive metronome), which is a treatment that works for children who have been through trauma and their brains have shut down.
We checked out a book from the library called brain gym. It is from interlibrary loan. It contains simple exercises that stimulate the brain. Also we are doing one hour of exercise a day which requires balance. Bike riding, rebounder, skateboard, Dance Dance Revolution, Brain Gym, Scooter, and workout videos. Exercises that require balance stimulate the parts of the brain that are damaged by trauma.

We recovered from trauma by remembering two words in everything we did: simple and sacred. Any thing that did not embody these two words, we removed from our lives.

Even if you decided to keep him in school, what helped us was to lower that bar of expectation. Set it on the ground so to speak. So, what really bad will happen if he doesn't get his homework done? If he gets by with D's, he will pass this year, KWIM? He could still do the brain exercises and try to rest and relax while at home afterschool, but it would be more challenging.

Good Luck Mama










My thoughts exactly. We are so pressured (by ourselves, society...) to do well in school, get our homework done, get good grades...WHY? His inner self, his emotional well being, the way he feels about himself, his soul...these are the important things right now that need to be cared for.

f^*&*k school.

He needs some lovin'!


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## Mallory (Jan 2, 2002)

I was this way when I was that age.

There were things I wasn't going to do and it didn't matter what you bribed me with or what you took away, I wasn't going to do it. We had some current event thing you had to do in 6th grade(I am not sure because I never did one) every friday and if you didn't do it then you spent recess copying an article from the newspaper. I never did a current event, NEVER.

There were several classes (mostly in jr. high) that I flunked because I never did anything. A photo class that I never took one picture in, a theater class that I never memorized one line, english classes that I didn't turn in one paper for, ect. In high school I did better, I think because there were more choices.

In retrospect I can see that it probably was because trauma in my life (my mother died when I was 11, then we moved to my dads (they had been divorced), in another city, of course changed schools, dad quickly got married (because my grandparents were fighting him for coustody, ect).

If you would have asked me then I would have said "I hate english, spelling, theater, what ever. It is stupid." End of discussion.
From this viewpoint I think I see that I just thought that there were so many important things to think about, write about, talk about that spending time writing my spelling words 4 times or writing about some foriegn leader was no where near what my body or brain needed to be doing. That was just a waste of my time.

I did graduate from high school and I am a well funtioning adult (and if my sat scores matter I did very well(over 1400 combined)). On the other hand, I sure would have like a few months to lay on the couch and read and watch tv.

Don't really have any advice, just wanted to tell you I've been there.


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## sweetfiend (May 22, 2004)

You need to check out this website:

http://www.alfiekohn.org/index.html#null

Click on the image of Kohn's new book,The Homework Myth, and then listen to the audio interview.

Alfie Kohn is a highly-respected, thoughtful, literate, well-educated, extremely well-documenting social scientist. Check him out.


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## Lisa Lubner (Feb 27, 2004)

Bestbirths what a great post!









I was the same way when I was a kid, and you know what? I just didn't WANT to do my homework. My parents yelled at me, grounded me, took away priveledges, brought me to the school psychologist, brought the whole family to a therapist and only got me to go because they LIED and said it was for the whole family (it was all about me not doing my busy work)... I had a guidance councellor call me into his office, show me my IQ and tell me that there was "no reason for me to be getting D's and F's".

Think about it though, what bright person (kid or adult) would want to spend their time copying 80 words that they probably already know how to spell??

I would talk to your son about why he wants to homeschool, and I would do your best to listen to what he has to say. Take it seriously. If my parents had taken me seriously instead of just punishing me my entire teenage life, I really do believe that many of my talents would not have gone wasted. Maybe your son just wants the freedom to explore his own interests. Maybe he just doesn't WANT to spend hours doing mindless busywork. Maybe the social scene in his school is less than healthy (I know mine certainly was, and it caused me self esteem issues I am STILL dealing with as an adult).


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## organic_homestead (Jul 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tummy*
History:
DS says he wants to be homeschooled, and I just cannot do that financially, not to mention that he will NOT write 20 spelling words when I ask him to get his work done!

Have you asked your son why he wants to be homeschooled? Perhaps ask him if he knows what happens during homeschooling. Has he had any experience/contact with other homeschoolers? Once he tells you why, explain to him why you cannot afford it; i.e. mom has to work to make money to pay the bills etc.

Just as other people have mentioned, unfinished homework is not the end of the world.

Is this something new this year or has he been like this during past school years? If it's new then there must be something going on at school.

One day my sister's son suddenly said he didn't want to go to school and if he had to, she had to take him and pick him up (he was in jr high). It turns out that there were some kids being mean to him/picking on him and he didn't want to face that. He never brings home homework, claiming he finished it at school. I think he's pretty bored with school. Many public schools can be boring and boys definitely have different learning styles than girls; they just can't sit for lengths of time with no interaction/physical movement.

Of course there were times I was pretty bored with school and got into trouble many times in 6th grade for staring out the window.

I wish you and your son the best. You will both get through this, just keep the communication open and try to find out how things could be better for him.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Okay- I have taught kids like that- I WAS a kid like that, let me know if I'm on the right track.

He's smart.
The work is boring.
He feels smarter than the teacher.
The work is a waste of his time.

Do I have the right outline?

-Angela


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## MyNameIsBen (May 24, 2006)

I know you asked for positive feedback, but I have to be honest; this sounds a lot like me between the ages of ....oh, 6 to 18. I was diagnosed with ADHD (which I now take with a grain of salt). I was on ritalin for most of elementary, junior high school, and some of high school. It really helped my be a better student, although I don't think it was worth it. My appetite suffered, and I was kind of a robot.

I graduated high school on time, with a college prepartory diploma (as opposed to the standard HS diploma, which is really just a certificate of attendance), but it was a real struggle. I got mostly C's. It was because I didn't do any work. I don't want to rain on your already wet parade, but I had a really hard time. I think kids like me don't belong in public schools. I thrived with individual attention. I realize this may not be feasible, but I think it's the only answer.


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## HeatherHeather (Jan 7, 2004)

What a difficult time. I agree with the pps who said that it's just homework. In the grand scheme of things, it really isn't that important. It sounds like your son is engaging in some kind of power struggle (either with you or his teacher) or it could something totally different, like being depressed.

IMO, you should talk with his teacher (like you are planning to). One of my friends has a son who refused to do homework. When she "forced" him to do the homework, he wouldn't turn it in to the teacher. When my friend confronted her son about it, he said, "you can make me do it, but you can't make me turn it in". Well, this was all about a power strugge with the teacher. The parent told the teacher that she (the parent) was not going to be involved in the homework at all. The teacher was free to penalize the child or handle it however the teacher wanted to at school, but the mom didn't want all the negative interaction at home. I think that was wise. When they are public schooled, we spend so little time with them. It is best to make that time count and be positive and happy; not to spend it nagging and fighting with them over homework.


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## JustJamie (Apr 24, 2006)

I agree with a couple of the previous posters - it sounds like he's bored with his busy work.

I know that's why I never did any of mine. It seemed pointless to me - I knew I could pass the tests without the mindless repeitition the teachers claimed the other students needed.

The only year I did every assignment I was given, was the one year I was allowed independant study. If I could do it all at my own pace, it wasn't as bad - I gobbled through the coursework with no problem.

Unfortunately, that was at a small Catholic school that shut down that same year.

Could you talk to his school, and see if you could place him in a more advanced class, or let him work at a faster pace?


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## Lisa Lubner (Feb 27, 2004)

BTW- I thought it was worth mentioning that not all homeschooling is "school at home". I'm saying this because you said:

Quote:

...not to mention that he will NOT write 20 spelling words when I ask him to get his work done!
There are so many different options for homeschoolers, there is bound to be a method that suits your DS's learning style. Neither me nor my son are the type that enjoy sitting at a desk for long. The curriculum I found for him that seems to work is literature based- loads and loads of reading and he LOVES it.

Bestbirths mentioned unschooling, which is another option that might suit your son. There are loads of people that homeschool on a very limited budget, most of us don't buy full boxed curriculums that cost tons of money, and we manage to put something appropriate together. You should join us in the Schooling at Home and Beyond board if you have any questions!


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## Tummy (Feb 24, 2005)

He wants to be homeschooled so he can stay home, have noone telling him to do work all day.. so that when he doesnt do his work he wont have to have his teacher tell him that he does not get recess.

Its not just his homework that he will not do.. he refuses to do his class work too.

There is still work from the first week of school that he has yet to complete.

BTW, school started here the first week of August, so this situation has not just started this week.. its been weeks!


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## mammastar2 (Dec 17, 2004)

It sounds like an interesting experiment on his part. Possible hypothesis: the work I'm given at school has no intrinsic value. Observation: so far the only consequences to not doing the work are made-up ones on the part of adults, like no recess or no tv. Conclusion: There's nothing to indicate that the work has any intrinsic value (maybe it doesn't??). If he's a bright kid, he may be finding that interesting.

You may want to bat that around with him. If the work doesn't have any value in and of itself right now, is there some other reason that makes sense to HIM to do the work, e.g. future plans?


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tummy*
He wants to be homeschooled so he can stay home, have noone telling him to do work all day.. so that when he doesnt do his work he wont have to have his teacher tell him that he does not get recess.

Its not just his homework that he will not do.. he refuses to do his class work too.

There is still work from the first week of school that he has yet to complete.

BTW, school started here the first week of August, so this situation has not just started this week.. its been weeks!

He's 11 years old. I think that this is between him and his teacher. I'd talk to his teacher to let her know what's been going on at home and that you feel he's old enough now to deal with the consequences so you won't be doing anything other than providing a time and place for homework. The rest is up to him.


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## Lisa Lubner (Feb 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tummy*
He wants to be homeschooled so he can stay home, have noone telling him to do work all day.. so that when he doesnt do his work he wont have to have his teacher tell him that he does not get recess.

Honestly, that doesn't seem like an unreasonable attitude to have. Schooling is supposed to be about learning, and coercing kids into completing a stack of dittos by threatening to take away their recess doesn't seem like much in the way of learning to me... JMHO

Quote:

Its not just his homework that he will not do.. he refuses to do his class work too.
Classwork in a public school setting isn't all that different from the homework. Except in the case of experiments and group projects, it's still a matter of giving the class a task, and letting them complete it during class time while the teacher sits at his/her desk and grades the last class's papers. Your son might thrive better on more one on one attention and in more engaging activities.

You might get some more information to work with once you meet with his teachers. Maybe he IS being given a hard time by other kids and is just too embarrassed/hurt to talk about it. In my experience, the teasing would have been reason enough for me to drop out and homeschool, even independantly of the fact that the school wasn't meeting my educational needs.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

WHY should he do the work? Is he "falling behind"? Are there things he "should" know how to do that he doesn't?

-Angela


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## juliansmom (Jul 7, 2006)

I have lurked here for a bit but never posted before, since my first child is not due until December.

However, I am a high school math teacher, so I've have had some experience with children. Your son's not doing homework is the symptom of a problem, not the problem itself.

Does your son have friends in school? How does he feel about other children in his class? How do they feel about him? I am more concerned about you mentioning that he sits in his room alone than with missed homework assignments. Also, how does he see himself, his place in the world, his future?

I am wondering if there is a family member or adult other than you who could talk to him about this. Sometimes children open up more to a favorite grandparent, uncle, or sports coach. The missed assignments themselves are only a symptom of other issues.


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## Tummy (Feb 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna*
WHY should he do the work? Is he "falling behind"? Are there things he "should" know how to do that he doesn't?

-Angela

Ok, in Florida we have the FCAT... children in certain grades have to pass this test to be pushed to the next grade.

My son was held back in K cause he was not "emotionally ready" according to his teacher.

Last year, he failed the FCAT.... he was pushed up to 5th grade due to being held back in elementary already. Had they held him back again he would have turned 16 the summer of 8th going to 9th grade.
That scared the every loving crap out of me.. I honestly can say that if I was able to drive myself when I was in middle school I would have quit.. and that scared me for him.

He is not 'behind'.. he is very bright. The things he 'should' be doing are all the things that the school board expects him to do.

I think I am going to have to look more into this HS/USing thing.

I thank everyone for all the information and support.!!!


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## Tummy (Feb 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *juliansmom*
I have lurked here for a bit but never posted before, since my first child is not due until December.

However, I am a high school math teacher, so I've have had some experience with children. Your son's not doing homework is the symptom of a problem, not the problem itself.

Does your son have friends in school? How does he feel about other children in his class? How do they feel about him? I am more concerned about you mentioning that he sits in his room alone than with missed homework assignments. Also, how does he see himself, his place in the world, his future?

I am wondering if there is a family member or adult other than you who could talk to him about this. Sometimes children open up more to a favorite grandparent, uncle, or sports coach. The missed assignments themselves are only a symptom of other issues.

Congrats on your new one.

He sees himself... "I will live with you forever, I wont need a job, when you die I will just live off of the money you leave behind"

He has not ambition.

He does not have a lot of friends.. a couple.

Children tease him... children are mean!

My son is 11 yrs old and weighs a whoooooping 55lbs.. he is the same size (wears same clothing) as his 7 yr old brother.
He is teased because of this. :cying.

He has NO self-esteem and that is one of the reasons I put him into therapy. I am so afraid he is going to become an unproductive adult.

He gets super nervous when doing something new/new places, people, ect.

He has absolutely no desire at all to play any team sports, but does want to.. OH WAIT, let me correct myself..

He does have a goal.. he wants to be in the Olympics..









Being super tiny he is a super fast runner. He wants to run in the Olympics... the issue I have with this is.. there is nothing around my area right now that offers any running teams for his age.
In January there will be a track team start up for children.. Hershey-something another.
He is excited about this.


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## Lisa Lubner (Feb 27, 2004)

Man, my heart goes out to your boy. Kids can be so cruel.







:

It sounds like he needs a serious boost, and you already have one thing that he LOVES that you know of that you can encourage him in. Can you take him to a school in the afternoon and time him on the track to help him practice? What about just around the block? Could you take up running with him and get up early together to stretch?

There is nothing wrong with being introverted. If you haven't already, read _Raising Your Spirited Child_ by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka. It helped me understand my kids better (I'm an introvert, and so is my middle child... my first and third kids are extroverts), and I think it's a great resource for understanding people in general.

If he were mine, I would take him out of school to veg out for a while, while you're looking into the homeschooling thing. The homeschooling boards here are a fantastic resource.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I agree- he needs something he LOVES. He knows that the school work has no meaning. There is no fooling him. School is a game. A pretty stupid one most of the time. Unfortunately he's already figured this out







I'd look into homeschooling/unschooling and follow his lead. Find things he's interested in and let his learning go in that direction.

-Angela


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tummy*
He wants to be homeschooled so he can stay home, have noone telling him to do work all day.. so that when he doesnt do his work he wont have to have his teacher tell him that he does not get recess.

Its not just his homework that he will not do.. he refuses to do his class work too.

There is still work from the first week of school that he has yet to complete.

BTW, school started here the first week of August, so this situation has not just started this week.. its been weeks!


If you homeschool him, wouldn't him not doing work at home have consequences?

I certainly don't know your child, and cannot tell you what is best for him. But, it sounds like he just plain doesn't WANT to do what is expected of him. My concern, if it were my child, is what will happen when he is grown and has to work? To me, school prepares children for life in the real world. Even homeschooling. Sometimes we do have to do things we don't want to do, or that are boring.

I am in college for the first time in nearly 20 yrs, this Fall. I have to take a prep course for Math. Do I like it? No. IF I don't do it, I don't get my degree.

While I am certainly not comparing myself to a child, I think you might get my point anyway.

And no, I am not against homeschooling. I did it last year. My son simply does better in school.

Perhaps homeschooling would be best for him. All I can say is good luck. You can find curriculum very cheaply on Ebay or even online, if you really hunt for it. Check Freecycle.


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lisa Lubner*
Honestly, that doesn't seem like an unreasonable attitude to have. Schooling is supposed to be about learning, and coercing kids into completing a stack of dittos by threatening to take away their recess doesn't seem like much in the way of learning to me... JMHO

Classwork in a public school setting isn't all that different from the homework. Except in the case of experiments and group projects, it's still a matter of giving the class a task, and letting them complete it during class time while the teacher sits at his/her desk and grades the last class's papers. Your son might thrive better on more one on one attention and in more engaging activities.

You might get some more information to work with once you meet with his teachers. Maybe he IS being given a hard time by other kids and is just too embarrassed/hurt to talk about it. In my experience, the teasing would have been reason enough for me to drop out and homeschool, even independantly of the fact that the school wasn't meeting my educational needs.











I am sorry, but what do you expect teachers to do? Should there be NO consequences to not completing your work?

My son didn't complete his class work the other day and the consequence was staying in at recess to finish it.
I was not terribly concerned and he did not get upset at all. He gets to run around outside right after school anyway and not a couch potato, so I am not concerned at this point.

I feel sorry for teachers these days. They just cannot win, no matter what. (not saying you were disparaging them, just commenting in general)

I mean my post in a kind manner. I am honestly wanting to know what you think should happen in a classroom full of kids when a few do not want to do their work and refuse.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I was a teacher. I think there is WAY too much desk work. I think that 98% of what they do all day, all year is pointless. And I was at a GOOD school in a GOOD district.

Our schools are mostly set up as daycare. They get to feel all important with their educational jargon, but honestly it would take 2-3 years max to teach EVERYTHING in K-8.

-Angela


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## Lisa Lubner (Feb 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TinkerBelle*
I am sorry, but what do you expect teachers to do? Should there be NO consequences to not completing your work?

My son didn't complete his class work the other day and the consequence was staying in at recess to finish it.
I was not terribly concerned and he did not get upset at all. He gets to run around outside right after school anyway and not a couch potato, so I am not concerned at this point.

I feel sorry for teachers these days. They just cannot win, no matter what.

Oook... First of all, I am NOT saying that there is something necessarily WRONG with public school. Some kids definately thrive in a school setting. The problem is that many DO NOT, and most schools don't accomodate the needs of children with different learning styles.

There is already a consequence to not doing your school work- lower grades. I think an arbitrary punishment that has nothing to do at all with the task at hand is pointless. I agree with the earlier poster that said that not completing his work is a symptom rather than the actual problem. It may be that he is uncomfortable in the environment his school provides, it may be that his educational needs aren't being met, it could be a whole list of other things.

I have to disagree about public school preparing children for the "real world". Going from spending 6 hours every day with the same people for 12 years straight hardly prepared me to go out into a world where I would have to interact with a huge variety of people of all ages and experiences. And quite honestly, I don't remember the last time my boss made me skip my break because I didn't meet a deadline. It might have a negative impact on my job security if it happened a lot however, and similarly, getting bad grades regularly will effect a child's chances of getting into a good university- which is certainly a natural consequence if getting into a good school is the goal.

If you choose a curriculum that mimicks the public school experience, and your kid never thrived in public school, chances are he wouldn't do well with that curriculum. A big part of home/unschooling your child is to give them the freedom to enjoy learning, to give them the space to explore whatever sparks their interst... rather than the whole "learn this or be punished" thing.


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lisa Lubner*
Oook... First of all, I am NOT saying that there is something necessarily WRONG with public school. Some kids definately thrive in a school setting. The problem is that many DO NOT, and most schools don't accomodate the needs of children with different learning styles.

There is already a consequence to not doing your school work- lower grades. I think an arbitrary punishment that has nothing to do at all with the task at hand is pointless. I agree with the earlier poster that said that not completing his work is a symptom rather than the actual problem. It may be that he is uncomfortable in the environment his school provides, it may be that his educational needs aren't being met, it could be a whole list of other things.

I have to disagree about public school preparing children for the "real world". Going from spending 6 hours every day with the same people for 12 years straight hardly prepared me to go out into a world where I would have to interact with a huge variety of people of all ages and experiences. And quite honestly, I don't remember the last time my boss made me skip my break because I didn't meet a deadline. It might have a negative impact on my job security if it happened a lot however, and similarly, getting bad grades regularly will effect a child's chances of getting into a good university- which is certainly a natural consequence if getting into a good school is the goal.

If you choose a curriculum that mimicks the public school experience, and your kid never thrived in public school, chances are he wouldn't do well with that curriculum. A big part of home/unschooling your child is to give them the freedom to enjoy learning, to give them the space to explore whatever sparks their interst... rather than the whole "learn this or be punished" thing.

I have quite a lot of respect for teachers, actually.







:


Please re-read my post. I did go back and edit it, because I realized how it sounded.

Quote:

I feel sorry for teachers these days. They just cannot win, no matter what. (not saying you were disparaging them, just commenting in general)

I mean my post in a kind manner. I am honestly wanting to know what you think should happen in a classroom full of kids when a few do not want to do their work and refuse.
I disagree that school doesn't at least help prepare kids for life in the real world. No, you wouldn't have to miss lunch break if you didn't meet a deadline, but you would have consequences if you just plain didn't do your job.

I do agree that there is something going on with that poor child. I hope the OP figures it out soon.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on some of this.


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## Lisa Lubner (Feb 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TinkerBelle*
Please re-read my post. I did go back and edit it, because I realized how it sounded.

I disagree that school doesn't at least help prepare kids for life in the real world. No, you wouldn't have to miss lunch break if you didn't meet a deadline, but you would have consequences if you just plain didn't do your job.

Edited mine also, though most of it wasn't aimed towards you specifically anyway.

I still disagree about the "life in the real world" stuff, not because I think that public school doesn't do that, but because I think that homeschooling does the job just as well, and better even. I can agree to disagree with you on that though, haha. It doesn't bother me that not everyone sees things my way.


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## pinkmilk (Nov 27, 2005)

Ok...so I just read that your son loves running!!!This is good. There has to be a running club in your area,It's O.K. if it's an adult group...they will usually accept kids if they are there to run. Have your son train for a marathon. My ds ran a 16km marathon last year and was the only kid to complete it!! He was 11 then too. This gives a kid so much to be proud of.


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## juliansmom (Jul 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tummy*
He has not ambition.

He does not have a lot of friends.. a couple.

Children tease him... children are mean!

My son is 11 yrs old and weighs a whoooooping 55lbs.. he is the same size (wears same clothing) as his 7 yr old brother.
He is teased because of this. :cying.

He has NO self-esteem and that is one of the reasons I put him into therapy. I am so afraid he is going to become an unproductive adult.

He gets super nervous when doing something new/new places, people, ect.

He has absolutely no desire at all to play any team sports, but does want to.. OH WAIT, let me correct myself..

He does have a goal.. he wants to be in the Olympics..









Being super tiny he is a super fast runner. He wants to run in the Olympics... the issue I have with this is.. there is nothing around my area right now that offers any running teams for his age.
In January there will be a track team start up for children.. Hershey-something another.
He is excited about this.


For kids who have low self-esteem, I've always used five tools. Maybe you could adopt them at home?

1) In class I make the child responsible for a certain task, such as handing out papers or pencils. The task has to fit the child's comfort level, so I tailor it depending on the situation. At home, ds should have a chore or two, something he could do easily and be praised for doing well when he completes it. Some type of reward system for completing this task would do wonders.

2) Be in touch with his teacher often, perhaps via email. Don't worry about taking up too much of her time or being intrusive. Also, listen to how your son feels about the class. Perhaps he feels too far ahead of or behind other students and does not want to be mocked by participating. His placement should be according to his comfort level, not anyone else's.

3) After school I welcome students dropping by to chat. I know that you are a great mom and that you already spend time with ds. But how about spending time on something he chooses. If there is no formal running club, then be his running club. Time him as he runs laps; have him research running and proper nutrition on the internet and report to you.

4) Always be on the lookout for activities he loves. You already have his interest in running, but is there anything else he could be excited about? Is there a specific type of music or a television program he loves? Encourage him to talk about these interests. Give him a chance to show how much he knows.

5) This last one is pretty logical, but I think adults always forget: Praise, praise, praise the things he does well and any initiative he takes. Make sure the positive things you say always outweigh the negative ones. Sometimes, you might have to "set him up" for the praise, but it's well worth it.

I wish you all the best. Your son sounds like a wonderful kid, and I have no doubt that he will pull through this.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Just so you know where I am coming from -- I think that school should (though often doesn't) prepare children for "real life", at least after elementary school. And I think that kids need to do their work, even if they don't like it. And there should be consequences for not doing it. I just do not get the "its only homework" attitude. BUT I am not sure that this is entirely the parent's responsibility. I definitely think you and the teacher need to make a cohesive game plan to work together to find a something to motivate your child. After meeting with her though, here are some other things that spring to mind for me.

Since negative consequences aren't working, its time to get creative. I agree with others that it sounds like there might be issues for your child that haven't been addressed. And maybe its time to look deeper into lots of possibilities -- even if you think you already have before or you don't think they are the cause. Maybe, just maybe, there is something there you can use.

First, is there something physically wrong? Is he depressed? I know you said he was in therapy -- what does his therapist say? Does he need medication? Is he already on medication and it needs adjusting?

Second, if he is being bullied (which is what teasing is, and maybe you don't know the whole story), what is the school doing about that? I was routinely beaten up in middle school and I know what that can do to a person's mental health. If the school won't address it and you feel stuck, what resources can you (or someone else) give him to help him cope?

Is it possible that he has an undiagnosed learning disability? Maybe he is hiding "I can't" behind "I won't".

If it is geniune lack of motivation or boredom, are there other school options in your area? A charter school? A private school with financial aid? My child goes to a fantastic private school but we pay only a fraction of the cost. They don't advertise financial aid though, you have to ask. But maybe there is something out there that would help.

Finally, if he loves running, I would use that as a basis for lots of things. Have him read about it, do math problems around it, study the human body to learn how to run more effectively. Then, even if he isn't doing well in school, he is still learning something. And maybe enjoying learning will rub off a bit.

I don't know about your community resources, but maybe there are some special extra activities you could find for him. It sounds like he needs something positive in his life, and school isn't it right now. Our YMCA has children's running groups and fitness classes, with scholarships. If he likes running, maybe there is another indvidual endurance sport that he would enjoy that is more common? Gymnatics perhaps? Small is good there, though he would also be encouraged to build muscle and that might help with his self esteem too. Maybe if he has something good in his life, the rest will be more "bearable" and he will be more willing to work.

It sounds like there is a lot of work here. Good luck and I hope something clicks soon.


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## arlecchina (Jul 25, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna*
Okay- I have taught kids like that- I WAS a kid like that, let me know if I'm on the right track.

He's smart.
The work is boring.
He feels smarter than the teacher.
The work is a waste of his time.

Do I have the right outline?

-Angela

I was like this and so now is my son. that last year is what led me to finally pull him from public school regardless of superdad's threats.

he was failing all classes from not doing homework...but all A's on all the tests.

.....which is the point, right? to learn the knowledge? forget it.


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## eminer (Jan 21, 2003)

With some trepidation...I think it's easy for adults who found school work meaningful in some way (e.g. challenging, or at least a pleasing organization/housework-type project) to compare it to a paid job, and opine that completing work reliably is an end in itself. But going back to Angela's point, for some of us, writing 20 spelling words meant writing 20 spelling words that we already knew how to spell. For another kid, it might mean writing 20 spelling words that could easily be caught by spell-check. Even by comparison to the average corporate job (and that's saying something), school tends to be incredibly meaningless and inefficient. Even if I don't _enjoy_ processing client data records over and over, I know that it needs to get done and has some value for the organization. "Practicing" skills I already know or don't particularly need to know just doesn't fall into the same category. And it's not as if there were a lack of opportunities to learn about doing boring work that needs to get done. It's _everywhere_.







:


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eminer*
With some trepidation...I think it's easy for adults who found school work meaningful in some way (e.g. challenging, or at least a pleasing organization/housework-type project) to compare it to a paid job, and opine that completing work reliably is an end in itself. But going back to Angela's point, for some of us, writing 20 spelling words meant writing 20 spelling words that we already knew how to spell. For another kid, it might mean writing 20 spelling words that could easily be caught by spell-check. Even by comparison to the average corporate job (and that's saying something), school tends to be incredibly meaningless and inefficient. Even if I don't _enjoy_ processing client data records over and over, I know that it needs to get done and has some value for the organization. "Practicing" skills I already know or don't particularly need to know just doesn't fall into the same category. And it's not as if there were a lack of opportunities to learn about doing boring work that needs to get done. It's _everywhere_.








:


Actually, I hated school. I hated doing the repetitive work that I already knew and found Math to be horrifying, because of the teacher I had. However, I still did what was expected of me. That is my point. I don't know if this applies to the OP's child or not, but I have seen where parents don't think their child should EVER have to do anything that they don't want to do. That, to me, is wrong. We ALL "have" to do things we find distasteful or boring. That is life.

I hope the OP finds another way. It sounds like her child goes beyond the average child who just decides to be lazy every so often. (yes, they do exist) He sounds like he has some issues that need to be addressed. I also wonder if he is being picked on.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eminer*
But going back to Angela's point, for some of us, writing 20 spelling words meant writing 20 spelling words that we already knew how to spell.

OK, so the big question for the OP would seem to be, does your son actually know the material? If he's skipping homework and classwork,but acing the tests, that's a different issue than if he's skipping the work and failing the tests. There are two very different scenarios there. So maybe the OP could help us focus on the one that is more relevant to her son's situation?


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## lisac77 (May 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths*
Sometimes children who have been through trauma can benefit from unschooling. Unschooling doesn't cost very much money, at first the child just gets to stay home and decompress from school. Children who have been through trauma, their brains just sometimes shut down. They can benefit from staying home and vegging out for a year. We call the transition from public school to unschooling deschooling. At first, you leave them home and make no requirements of them, just let them play and do whatever they want. Think of it as a vacation. Then, they get to pursue whatever interests them educationally. Also, children who have been through trauma, we are finding need extra help sometimes to get their brains working back again. There are things that can be done, brain exercises. The Dance Dance Revolution game for the Xbox (also other gaming systems like PS2) , stimulates the brain activity that has been effected by trauma (it's the poor mans interactive metronome), which is a treatment that works for children who have been through trauma and their brains have shut down.
We checked out a book from the library called brain gym. It is from interlibrary loan. It contains simple exercises that stimulate the brain. Also we are doing one hour of exercise a day which requires balance. Bike riding, rebounder, skateboard, Dance Dance Revolution, Brain Gym, Scooter, and workout videos. Exercises that require balance stimulate the parts of the brain that are damaged by trauma.

We recovered from trauma by remembering two words in everything we did: simple and sacred. Any thing that did not embody these two words, we removed from our lives.

Even if you decided to keep him in school, what helped us was to lower that bar of expectation. Set it on the ground so to speak. So, what really bad will happen if he doesn't get his homework done? If he gets by with D's, he will pass this year, KWIM? He could still do the brain exercises and try to rest and relax while at home afterschool, but it would be more challenging.

Good Luck Mama









I wanted to quote BestBirths' whole post because ITA with every word she wrote.

I was this kid in elementary school. I had SID, which caused social problem, and I was teased mercilessly for YEARS. I also categorically refused to do my homework because it was stupid and I didn't think it was worthy of my time. I fought tooth and nail with my mom about it, and the only result from that was that my homework still didn't get done and my relationship with my mother was severely damaged. I know she was trying to "do the right thing" but it completely backfired in my case.

I was just about your son's age when my parents took me out of school. My sisters and I were homeschooled for two years. They used a curriculum, but not really, so it ended up being more like unschooling. I spent a lot of time watching TV and reveling in the fact that no one was telling me what to do. I studied things that interested me and spent many happy hours in the library just looking up stuff. I had a chance to find my love of learning again.

I went back to school in eighth grade (I was held back a year at this point - the best thing for me at the time) and when I went back I was READY for school. My grades were excellent and remained so for the rest of my high school career. I went to college and graduated and I've held a job for many years now.

Pulling your son out of school and giving him a year off may be exactly what he needs. It may give him a chance to mature and find his own way a little. I did almost nothing school related for two years and it actually HEALED me instead of ruining me forever.

I know how hard this must be for you, but it is hard for him,too. Hugs to both of you and best wishes....


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## 3boobykins (Nov 21, 2001)

I agree with everything BestBirths and many other posters wrote. If it is at all possible, I would personally remove him from school asap. I don't know what the homeschooling laws are for your state, but I would find out, and begin reading all you can about unschooling. For awhile I would just let ds BE, whether that means watching tv, playing, reading, running, whatever, or even doing nothing if that's what he needs. Being forced to learn what he's not interested in, or material being presented in a boring way may have temporarily squelched his natural and inborn desire to learn, but it can be recovered. I'm happy to hear that you're seriously looking into unschooling/homeschooling.

And







for having a small child who is teased. DS, 6, is also a tiny guy. He hasn't experienced being teased, thankfully--we unschool (but I know it could still happen. He doesn't seem to be very aware it his size yet). He was born at a low birth weight and at 6 weighs just 33.5 lbs and is 43 in. tall. I don't know whether or not he'll catch up at some point with his peers, but it hurts me to think he could be teased at some point. He is taking a kung fu class now, and it seems to be doing a lot for his confidence. He's the smallest in his class, but is progressing well and feeling strong. Being small seems to be harder on boys, IME. Tiny girls are seen as cute and petite, but after a certain age it doesn't seem to be as acceptable for boys to be very small.

Best wishes to you, mama. I can hear see in your posts how much you love your ds. You'll figure it out.


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## onlyboys (Feb 12, 2004)

Tummy--I know too well the horrors of the FCAT. And, if he "failed" last year then they are putting major, major pressure on him to pass this year.

Our Governor in FL, who may or may not be a pumpkinhead, has even devised pay for performance which will further pressure the teachers and students to attain passing grades on the FCAT. It's pathetic, and school in FL right now is little more than hoop jumping--from the students on up to the administrations.

My vote is to keep him home. Homeschool, unschool, just hang out, get his head together and then move on. I don't think he's benefiting from this year, as he's not doing the work, so change it.

When you say you cannot afford to HS do you mean the materials and such? How about if you just used the newspaper? I can think of a bunch of stuff that could start there--history, science, math, reading, etc.

Hope this helps!


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Tummy,

Obviously I don't have a kid your son's age. But I do understand a bit about this issue, since I have personal experience in the area (and can see the difference in how my situation was handled vs. one of my cousins).

First, if he really just wants to sit in his room all day doing nothing, I'd say your first problem is that he sounds really depressed. It sounds like you know there's stuff going on and he's been through quite a bit and you're doing all you can with that situation.

Second...this is going to sound really bad...but have you considered just backing off? Obviously yelling or whatever isn't working. But just simply sitting him down and saying that you know he'd like to be homeschooled, but that homeschooling requires a lot of self-motivation and self-discipline. You'd like to give him the opportunity to show you that for this semester. You won't bug him about his homework. You won't bug him about what happened at school. You trust that he knows the consequences--if he flunks his classes and doesn't catch up, he may well have to repeat them or go to summer school if he doesn't pass his grade, ect. You are available to help him however he needs it, but that he needs to ask you for what he wants because otherwise you're just nagging him and nobody likes that. If he can get things turned around, and show that he's capable of working on his own and independently, then you and he will sit down and come up with a plan for homeschooling and re-evaluate things after the semester is over.

And then back off. If he falls on his face (which he probably will the first semester) then you can be kind, but stay out of it. You can't make him do schoolwork. You can't. That's up to him. So really, it's his problem. The more you make it yours, the more he's going to resist or resent. You can be kind and supportive without being pushy. And if he has to repeat a grade or go to summer school, then so be it. If he's already struggling with other issues, then why not back off of this one and give him some breathing room. It won't fall into place by nagging or force anyway.

He might be asking for homeschool because he's lazy, sure (because he thinks he won't have to do anything). Or...he might be asking because he needs/wants some control over this area. Maybe a little of both. But it's probably worth giving him a shot to figure it out! And it sounds like he really needs your support and caring rather than being at loggerheads and fighting about this (esp. since you really can't win anyway!).

I can't imagine that backing off would be easy, because I can think of all the fears I would have for MY kid. But again, you're not winning now, maybe you both need some chill out time and time to flail around a bit to get your bearings.










This sounds so frustrating. I would feel so angry and irritated and exaperated and disappointed and sad. I hope that whatever you decide to try, that you will get some peace back! For what it's worth, I think you have been doing everything 'right', but sometimes you really need him to be a partner in it, you know? This is not your fault. Some things you don't have control over, same for him. I can 'hear' your love for him.


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