# What do you think of this Surname Debate?



## Barefoot Farmer (Feb 13, 2004)

I'm going to post this in parenting and parents as partners, hoping to get some feedback. We are in quite a pickle. I'll try to just lay out the facts.

Before DH and I married, I made it clear that should I be married, I would keep my last name and my children (who would emerge from my body) would bear my last name. DH was estranged from his biological father and agreed to this. I proposed to him years later, we married, kept our separate last names, 2 years later we had DD, she was given my last name (DH's last name as one of her two middle names).

Fast forward 3 years, DD is 3 years old, and DH's parents inform him that the man he believed to be his biological father for 31 years is not his father. His believed to be step-father who has raised him since he was 8, who he adores, and whom we are both very close to, is indeed his biological father. Yes, there is shock and awe, many hurt feelings, and lots and lots of explaining to do. Needless to say, DH's world was turned up-side down. DD's second middle name was changed to reflect her now real grandfather's last name. Her last name still remains to be mine.

Fast forward 3 more years, I am pregnant (with triplets, but that is beside the point, sort of) and the surname discussion has surfaced. Both DH and I feel trapped. He is in the process of changing his last name to reflect his now true real family of origin. He would like his children (some or all) to bear the name of this family that he now identifies with; I understand this, he didn't know this information when he originally made the agreement; however, I still want my children to bear my name. All my reasons for wanting this in the first place still remain -- we want to show our children that the world can be different, that not everything is partriarchal. I like that my daughter has my name;

So, here are some facts to keep in mind as you weigh in:

1. DH did not know who his real family of origin was when he made this agreement. I feel for him on this point. Please don't argue that his family of origin does deserve this; (I say this enough in my head); for all the wrong and right reasons, it does come down to: for 31 years, he had no father and a great step-dad; now he just has a great dad.

2. DD is 6 years old and has my last name. I'm not thrilled with the idea of some of my children having some last name, and some of my children having another; unless I divide it by gender???

3. The truth of me keeping and bestowing my last name onto my children has NOTHING to do with my family of origin. I am adopted and am not close at all to my adopted family. It is very feminist-based.

4. Sort of beside the point, but not really. These triplets are the result of 4 years of fertility treatments, which I wanted to give up on, but DH really wanted to keep trying. That said, I'm not sure who wins: him for believing more, me for jumping through the hoops.

5. On a stylistic point, truth be told, DH's new last name is common, easy to pronouce, looks nicer, goes with all names (I'm serious on this); my last name is long, horrible to pronouce, and doesn't go with anything (really, and I still gave it to my DD); I admit this last fact; I've had the name for 32 years -- I know it is true. This argument actually works for me as it gets away from who wins and sort of lets vanity choose. However, I recognize it as a scapegoat to my feminist ideals.

Please know this isn't a fight or anything between DH and me; we both see this as a situation we got stuck into by no fault of either; we just don't know our way out that is fair to both of us.

Thoughts?
TIA


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## mamalemon (Mar 25, 2008)

It would be very important to me that my children all have the same last name, whatever it may be an wherever it may originate. Having the same last name symbolizes unity (imo at least) and I would want that very much for my children.

Can you do with the triplets what you have done with your daughter: firstname/firstmiddle/dh'slastname/yourlastname? I think that would be the simplest solution and would continue to honor dh's family as well as you.


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## Ambystoma (Mar 26, 2009)

I don't know that I have much to offer in the way of ideas, but I think that what you have done so far is awesome. I think it's lovely that you're both open to dialogue, and that you are willing to see new developments in his desires. Do you know the genders of your triplets yet? I would be inclined to do the split by gender thing, or maybe go 1/2 and 1/2. Are your names to awful to try hyphenating or just doing 2 last names?


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## ChocolateNummies (Apr 9, 2007)

Not sure it would work given your last name is long, etc. but would you be open to a hyphenated double last name?

Other than that I think I would probably do what mamalemon suggested.


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## Barefoot Farmer (Feb 13, 2004)

Hyphenating isn't really an option; our children's last names would be about 13 letters long and nightmarish; and I do like the "style" of one last name.

As we have seen in DD, a second middle name, while still present, gets no recognition; who ever doesn't get the last name, does get the second middle name slot; but that is really token.

Triplet gender is know: in the end, we will have 2 boys and 2 girls. Again, leaning on the gender split; but then I worry about the kids not all having the same last name. If we give the triplets his last name, DD would have to switch her second middle name and her last name; I really don't think she would mind, except she does like that she is the "same as mama."


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Have you considered a new last name that combines both of your names? No hyphinated, but a mix that would just be both of your names smooched together.

I do know someone, him and his sister both have different last names but the same parents. Neither of them really had much of an issue with it beyond explaining to others why.


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## katiesk (Nov 6, 2007)

dp and i have different last names and i would keep my last name if we married. we agreed to give dd whichever last name sounds best with her first and middle name. she got her dad's last name.

i have no qualms about our kids having different last names - lots of siblings have different last names for different reasons. i don't feel it is a big deal - or any deal at all. it's just their last name - and each name is connected to their parent, it's not like a random last name...

someone suggested that dp and i combine our last names...which are klann and brown to create either a: klown or b: brann. which i think is hilarious, but we shall not do because it is absurd.

the only thing that i did NOT want to do was split the gender - the girls gets my name and the boy gets dp's name, because to me, that seemed like an exceptionally patriarchal move. you know, the boy is more important to carry on the man's name, blah blah. thats probably just my own personal perception, but i am still kind of adamant about it. if we have two boys, then one of them can have my name and the other can have dp's.

good luck. tricky situation! good for you two for being so respectful, mature and considerate about it.


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## jspring0308 (Jul 24, 2008)

I had a friend who kept her last name, husband had a different last name and when baby was born they chose another different name for her. Baby's last name was an old old family name that wasn't anyone's surname that they just really liked. I would have all children have the same last name for ease (for them) but other then that I don't think the kids need to have either last name unless it's really important to either of you and it doesn't really seem like it is...might be cool to do something totally different! Have fun figuring it out. Keep us posted.


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## My3guys (May 27, 2009)

I know you are in the thick of it and agonizing but as dilemmas go on this board, this is kind of a fun one. When we got married, I made it very clear that all of our children would have my name as one of their middle names. My DH made it clear that all of our children would have middle names that reflected his ethnic heritage and would be chosen by his father. So, all of our kids have Given Name, ethnic name, my surname, husband's surname. Kind of long with hyphens but it works for us.

I agree with one and all who say your life will just make much more sense if all the kids, particularly the triplets, share a surname. So, what is a creative way to solve for this? What about creating a new surname that combines elements of both yours and his? Would that work? What about giving one of the triplets your husband's surname as his or her first name? Or name a child after his father in honor of him and keep your surname?

If those don't work then I would suggest sitting down and figuring out at what point your immediate family unity trumps feminist ideology and his newfound familiar loyalty.

Good luck!


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *katiesk* 
someone suggested that dp and i combine our last names...which are klann and brown to create either a: klown or b: brann. which i think is hilarious, but we shall not do because it is absurd.

Brann-Klown


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## LDSmomma (May 11, 2009)

I hope not to confuse with this, but I know a family with kids with different last names, and it worked out to be a gender split, and was never a problem. Mom had 2 boys with DH1, who got DH1's last name, as did she. Then, she had a girl with DP2, DD got DP2's last name, but the woman never married him, so she kept DH1's last name. She then had a son with DP2, but DP2 was not present at the birth, so DS3 got mom's last name, which is the same as her other sons and her DH1. Then, she had two more girls with DP2, and these kids got DP2's last name, as DD1 did. So, all boys had one last name (mom's), and all girls had a different last name (dad's). Kind of crazy, but it was never an issue, unless you wanted to mail something to whole family, like a Christmas card!

I know what you mean about a second middle name not getting much attention. My dad has two middle names, but on all official paperwork, they only list his first middle name.


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## Kristin0105 (Mar 1, 2008)

I wanted my children to have my last name too. When my daughter was born we hyphenated with dh's name first and mine last. Would that work? Even though yours is long it might be a good solution to hyphenate. That way dd won't have to have her name changed much just the addition of a hyphen.


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## SleeplessMommy (Jul 16, 2005)

Congrats on the triplets!







:







:







:

We used a hyphenated last name for our kid, despite TWO difficult last names. He is OK so far.







In the long terms, I don't think last name matters that much. You still have some time to figure out, right?


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## SparklingGemini (Jan 3, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamalemon* 
It would be very important to me that my children all have the same last name

This.


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## Cherie2 (Sep 27, 2006)

I don't see anything wrong with having different last names. I mean it's sort of the point right? patriarchal rules need not be followed.. seems like it should go both ways no? I would give one boy your name and a boy and a girl his name


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## funkymamajoy (May 25, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *katiesk* 

someone suggested that dp and i combine our last names...which are klann and brown to create either a: klown or b: brann. which i think is hilarious, but we shall not do because it is absurd.


Or you could be known as the Brown Clan er Klann.









As for the original question, I personally think a name unifies us as a family. We are the F***s (no, its not what you think). The other reason I changed my name was just because I liked his name better.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

i don't see anything wrong with them having different last names. you and dh have different last names so what does it really matter if they have doifferent last names from each other or from you guys or from anyone. or giving them all two last names. i think it is only fair that Dh gets to give some of the children his last name.


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## zinemama (Feb 2, 2002)

I don't understand. If your future children have his - new, real - last name as one of their middle names, like your dd does, won't that count? Just the way it does for his first child, your dd?

I am totally in favor of the person who bears and gives birth to the children having the ultimate naming power.

You and your dh made an agreement. The issues raised by the revelation of his paternity are real and need to be worked through - by him, for himself. Going back on the agreement you made in order to give his children his newfound name seems like a backwards way of resolving things.

ETA: I don't see the slightest problem with kids having different names. (Heck, my boys have different last names, one has dh's; one has mine - same parents.) If you are both ok with a gender split, that might be the way to go.


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## Cherie2 (Sep 27, 2006)

I do not agree with same last name = unity. Just about everybody in my family has a different last name.. we are quite united.


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## Mary-Beth (Nov 20, 2001)

I think you should all take the same last name and it should be both dh's and your last name.

Not giving up your name is awesome and allowing him to claim his name seems like it would have some significance for him. For a sense of family unity and simplicity I'd have everyone have the same last name.


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## jlobe (May 1, 2009)

One thing I have learned in 15 years of marriage -- agreements are never absolute. We change as individuals and as a family during the course of time, and what is important to us at one point changes. It's a question of who needs something more at some point. If this is very important for him as a way of processing his ideas of family and identity I would probably sacrifice some of the other issues to help him do this, or find different ways to acknowledge some of those other issues.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

You made a deal on this already. I'd keep the deal.

It seems to me that:

your dh wants to symbolically make up for all the years of not knowing the reality of his biological father. As if a last name could be the same as therapy, or whatever else it will take him to process this. It seems to me he wants to skip a few steps by naming the kids his true father's last name.

I'm sure the step-father (actually bio father) is wonderful, but because of the deceit (and it was a deceit) perpetuated on your dh, the step-father/bio-father really doesn't deserve the passing of his name. I hope I'm explaining this well and not coming across harshly.

But I'm afraid your dh will think "ok we all have this name! All is well!" and not do the really hard emotional work this is going to take.

You could give the triplets dh's father's name as their (only) middle name, not as a second middle name. Then it wouldn't get as "lost" as if they had two middle names.


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## mamalemon (Mar 25, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cherie2* 
I do not agree with same last name = unity. Just about everybody in my family has a different last name.. we are quite united.

Of course you are united, you're family and the familial bond surpasses something as superficial as a name. I always sort of thought of us as a team, though. I like my kids being "the XX kids," you know? DH and I have the same last name for the same reason, so that we can be "the XX family" (I understand why you and your dh do not share last names though, OP).

In the grand scheme of things, it isn't _that_ important. It isn't like the family will fall apart and never attach without a common name. Having a name that identifies you as part of a clan/team/family is a symbol of unity, however.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

All of the hyphenated last names I've ever seen run at least 10+ letters, most last names are at least 5, so if you combine two...there you go.

I would really move to compromise on this, to be honest. Of course, as an adoptee, I think that validating one's heritage can be extremely important, and names can be even more important. You kind of were able to luck out on this, because when you were married, your DH had no attachement to a name.

Now he does. While it may mess up the absolute visual appeal of the name for you, for awhile...I think it would reflect your compassion and honoring to include him if you were to at least discuss this some more and offer compromises until you come closer to a consensus.

I guess you could stick to your guns about "well, you made an agreement before this came out, so I win". But in many, many relationships things change over time, and people end up compromising on "important things". If it wasn't difficult, it wouldn't be a true compromise and inclusion.

How much time do you have left to make a decision? It's true, if all this recently came out, he's likely to still be in the shock stage.

But as for WWID, to be honest I would hyphenate the last names of all the children. Of course, I don't go by the "woman rules no matter what since she gives birth" deal either. Presumably a loving, committed partner cares for the woman during her pregnancy and supported her in conception or contributed to it, and cares for everyone in the family during and afterwards.

I think you need to do some more talking about this. But I think it would be both compassionate and wise to at least attempt to reach some sort of compromise.


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## SparklingGemini (Jan 3, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cherie2* 
I do not agree with same last name = unity. Just about everybody in my family has a different last name.. we are quite united.

I don't know.

My DD and I have different last names because I'm not yet married to her daddy and I have to admit I feel a bit left out.

We're not the "Smith" Family. We're the this is Daddy Smith and Baby Smith and Mama Jones.

I don't like it. Of course, that's me.


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## Cascadian (Jan 28, 2009)

*


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

What about just having all the kids' middle name be DH's last name, and their last name be your last name?

I'm not talking about a second middle name (since, as you said, they generally get lost in the shuffle), but just Firstname Hislastname Yourlastname, for all the kids.

Like Mary Smith Kowalski, John Smith Kowalski, etc.


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## sunshine1793 (Oct 29, 2007)

I would go with your husband's last name. I think it honors your first daughter to carry yours, and it honors your husband to have these children to bear his name. Dd1 was born quite some time ago, when you were both in a different stage of life. I don't think it necessarily discounts your feminist ideals; it shows that you can appreciate honoring both sides of the family. Or have it split along gender lines, if dd1 might feel left out.


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## Chamomile Girl (Nov 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *katiesk* 

the only thing that i did NOT want to do was split the gender - the girls gets my name and the boy gets dp's name, because to me, that seemed like an exceptionally patriarchal move. you know, the boy is more important to carry on the man's name, blah blah. thats probably just my own personal perception, but i am still kind of adamant about it. if we have two boys, then one of them can have my name and the other can have dp's.









:

I know that you do not like the idea of a double last name but it does seem to be the most logical solution to this situation. I am biased of course because my me DH and my new baby son all share the same doubled last name, but I also really like the whole family having the same name.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

My kids have different last names and it doesn't faze them a bit. You could do a gender split...

eta - as to the 'boys are more important to carry on the man's last name' bit, that only works if you value his last name more, or assume your daughters will marry men and take their last names. i don't think it holds any weight.


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## Xpcting#3 (Nov 7, 2007)

My three boys are split: two have DH's last name, one has mine. We alternated with the first two, then for our third child, went with the last name that went best with the first name we'd chosen. There is no unity problem - the kids are as thick as thieves and certainly an identifiable pack in the community.

If this is important to you - that you share last names - then I'm curious why it's not an issue that your spouse to be apart?


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## Chamomile Girl (Nov 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
My kids have different last names and it doesn't faze them a bit. You could do a gender split...

eta - as to the 'boys are more important to carry on the man's last name' bit, that only works if you value his last name more, or assume your daughters will marry men and take their last names. i don't think it holds any weight.


Then it seems odd to do a gender split in the first place...why should it be assumed that the boys should have HIS name and the girls HERS if not for this reason? Even if the parents think its bunkus, society will assume the patriarchal reason.

Most girls still do marry men and take their last names... Just saying.


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

*I don't think everyone in the family needs the same last name to be unified. My dp and I have different last names. The kids have his last name. I wanted to hyphenate theirs but didn't upon his request; I really, really wish now that I had insisted. I don't feel the least bit "left out" as another poster said. I actually kind of like bucking the system to be honest!

*I think reconsidering your agreement based on new information would be fair. I think you either a) hyphenate all four kids' last names or b) split by gender with girls getting your last name and boys getting his. I know a family that did this with no issues that I know of. It was explained that simply and we all got it just fine. Hell, with all the divorce and second marriages these days, TONS of kids have different last names from their siblings! Ditto on different last names from a parent, though usually the mother.

*If you don't follow my advice above - can't imagine why when I make such perfect sense!







then I agree with others that his new last name is the triplets' ONLY middle name so it is more than just a token.


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## gsd1amommy (Apr 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
You made a deal on this already. I'd keep the deal.

It seems to me that:

your dh wants to symbolically make up for all the years of not knowing the reality of his biological father. As if a last name could be the same as therapy, or whatever else it will take him to process this. It seems to me he wants to skip a few steps by naming the kids his true father's last name.

*I'm sure the step-father (actually bio father) is wonderful, but because of the deceit (and it was a deceit) perpetuated on your dh, the step-father/bio-father really doesn't deserve the passing of his name*. I hope I'm explaining this well and not coming across harshly.

But I'm afraid your dh will think "ok we all have this name! All is well!" and not do the really hard emotional work this is going to take.

You could give the triplets dh's father's name as their (only) middle name, not as a second middle name. Then it wouldn't get as "lost" as if they had two middle names.

Did I miss somewhere that it was the bio-dad's/step-dad's deception? It is entirely possible that her MIL was not truthful. Why the leap?


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## amma_mama (May 20, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jlobe* 
One thing I have learned in 15 years of marriage -- agreements are never absolute. We change as individuals and as a family during the course of time, and what is important to us at one point changes. It's a question of who needs something more at some point. If this is very important for him as a way of processing his ideas of family and identity I would probably sacrifice some of the other issues to help him do this, or find different ways to acknowledge some of those other issues.









: Circumstances change and "agreements" can be re-visited. If it were my family, i would want to support DH to honor the family name if he felt so strongly about it. I think that I would go with the double (or hyphenated) last name for all the children (my maiden name had 10 letters and it was not a problem). While it is no-biggie if the kids have different surnames, which is so common these days that I think that few people bat an eye anymore, I personally would prefer them to be the same if at all possible. There are plenty of other ways to teach your children about feminism and a hyphenated name does seem, in my opinion, to demonstrate "equality" in the family so I do not even see a loss of ideals as an issue with a hyphenated name or splitting last names among the children (but not by gender).


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## Smokering (Sep 5, 2007)

I'm pretty traditionalist when it comes to names, but the gender divide thing seems very _non_-feminist to me. It gives off a weird vibe of "You own the boys, I own the girls" which seems kinda... segregated? I dunno.

Not that I have a helpful answer for you or anything.







It does seem like it might cause confusion down to the line to have _triplets_, not just regular siblings, with different last names.


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## mamatowill (Aug 23, 2004)

I have a friend who has done it by gender split. Girls have here last name and boys have his last name. It does not seem to be a problem for them.


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## pinksprklybarefoot (Jan 18, 2007)

I did not want to take my DH's name when we married for feminist reasons. DH didn't want to take mine. So we just picked something we both liked and both he and I and our joint children have that name. One of our sons has my stepdad's surname name as a middle name, and the other will have my dad's surname as a middle name. DH isn't all that concerned with carrying on any of his family names, so that is why he is unrepresented in the middle names.

DH's daughter has a hyphenated last name - her mom's name (which is the name of her ex-husband) + DH's "maiden" name. DSD's mom "didn't like" the name that we chose so she won't let DH change DSD's name to match his. It makes me feel a little bad because we really like having a family name and use it as such - it does make us feel unified and I wish that she could be a part of that, too. To get around it, when I sign cards and things like that, I sign them "Team Suchandsuch" instead of "The Suchandsuches." She is still on the team even if she isn't a legally-named Suchandsuch.

Another thing that I did before we were married was to give our house a nickname (the Ranchero De-Luxe). I used to use this in the name line of our return address instead of writing out everyon'e completely different name.

I agree with the PPs that didn't like the idea of dividing things by gender - I'd do one of each if you decide to give the kids different last names.


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## AllisonR (May 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Barefoot Farmer* 
Triplet gender is know: in the end, we will have 2 boys and 2 girls. Again, leaning on the gender split; but then I worry about the kids not all having the same last name. If we give the triplets his last name, DD would have to switch her second middle name and her last name; I really don't think she would mind, except she does like that she is the "same as mama."

Here in Denmark, it is not assumed that the woman takes the mans name. Quite often the woman keeps her own, and just as often the husband takes the wife's name. When DH and I were to be married, he wanted to take my name, Barry. I wanted to take his name, Rosenlund - which sounds beautiful and means the small forest rose. Now if his last name had been Jensen or Larsen or Nielsen - which are as common as toast and just as boring over here - I would have never taken it. I had to convince him to not take my name because I liked his so much. We did what works best for us, not in the name of feminisim, but what we liked better. Being comfortable in your own name is important, imo. A lot more important than "rules."

Why not change both your DD and YOU to your DH's last name. Gasp! This is not anti-feminist. If you like his name, you like your children having the name... then it is your choice to choose that freely. You have changed, your husband has changed, the circumstances have changed, and you have a right to change your mind, and not chose based on whether it fits into your rules of feminism.


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## mntnmom (Sep 21, 2006)

I chose to take my husband's name for simplicity. "MY" last name was just my father's name anyway, and I like my husband better! I like that in today's world we have the freedom to chose the answer that works best for our situation. To me, that is what feminism is about; teaching ALL children that your opinion is weighed on your merits, not your genitals, or your last name. You do not strike me as the kind of mama who will raise patriarchal children regardless of what you call them, but I do understand the importance of the symbolism.

I really don't see an easy solution unless one of you is willing to take the "token" spot of second middle name. All the kids having the same last name will be simpler, but I really don't think it effects family unity in reality. The way you raise them is the important part on all these fronts.


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## pixiekisses (Oct 14, 2008)

I'm sorry, but I wouldn't budge on this.
Names are important to me though, and I want all my kids to have the same last name, mine. That was clear to my dear when we first got together as well. And it has never been brought up later. Even though his is more rare, mine means a lot to me, and we use his as the last middle name. I have some of the same reasons that you do, but it's also bc my mom "fought" to keep it a last name when she got married (and back then, it was so unusual), and I'm the last woman in my family with this last name to pass on to my kids and keep it from dying out. It means a lot to my mom and grandmother too. (They never mentioned it, or told me they wanted me to do that, but I know they appreciate it.)


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Have you considered a new last name that combines both of your names? No hyphinated, but a mix that would just be both of your names smooched together.

I do know someone, him and his sister both have different last names but the same parents. Neither of them really had much of an issue with it beyond explaining to others why.

I only read down to this post, but this seems like a good idea. This is how in medieval times, new surnames came about.


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## Greenmama2AJ (Jan 10, 2008)

I'm a bit different. I don't think all of the children having the same last name is so important. In a way, it sort of has the same patriarchial basis that you're trying to avoid by giving them your own name. Not very feminist. Too many people associate surnames with legitimacy. Family is family, just because you have the same name doesn't make them any more 'cohesive' or make anyone more 'faithful'.

I kept my last name. Our DS has my DH's last name, because it was important to my DH. I don't mind that DS has a different last name - it was my choice to keep my name. If we had another child, and it was important to me to give them my last name, I would. We didn't give them a hyphenated name - I thought it sounded ridiculous and what a pita for everyone.

I'm inclined to like the idea of giving the boys your DH's name and giving the girls your last name. This is a true win/win. You both get to pass on your names. It's easy to explain to the kids (dad's name=boys, mum's name=girls). And your daughter doesn't have to change her name. Easy.


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## BroodyWoodsgal (Jan 30, 2008)

I knew a girl who was named Rochelle Labombard...and I don't think I spelled that correctly...but she loved her last name. When she met her husband, she was relieved to find that he is of an ethnicity in which it is common and completely acceptable for the man to take the womans last name...or, for her to keep her last name even if the fellow doesn't also want to take it.

I like the idea....becuase I don't like this "marry off our daughters to another clan, who now owns them" thing....it just feels, I don't know...like a title transfer...."You belonged to your fathers clan and were called Smith....now you belong to your husbands clan and are known as Anderson" - you know? THat being said...I gladly took my DHs last name....but I LOVE his entire (small as it is!) "clan"..it is very much a matriarchy and so it didn't feel as though I was taking a "mans" name...it felt like I was becoming one of them...and one of them didn't feel so bad, especially considering my fathers "clan" being so distant....I always hated having my fathers last name, so it was no biggie...

So...for me, it is not in WHAT name is actually chosen....but HOW. The choice in it all is what makes it awesome. I think that the "importance" of keeping the same last name for all children lies in the same idea that you, OP, are trying to escape from...the idea that your surname marks you, speaks to what clan you belong to...the stigma involved in having kids with different last names, really seems to be disappearing as divorce becomes more a part of our culture. I think the stigma was on the mother...as it was seen as disgraceful for a woman to have a second husband or to have children by multiple partners....OP, I don't think this is the type of stigma you would even accept as legitimate, right? So...maybe all of them having the same last name is not as big a deal??

I understand where your DH is coming from in all of this...though, as a side note, what a TERRIBLE secret for his parents to keep! UGh!! But anyhow, I would do a split....OR make up a new name. If you make up a new name, I think you should ask DD if she'd like to switch too and if so, would she like to have a vote in what name you pick? I think there is something really really cool in making a new last name entirely. OR....if I did a split...would have DD1 and DS1 go with OPs last name and DD2 and DS2 go with DHs last name....that way it's not a gender spit....not that I'm even sure that would matter to me!

What an interesting pickle! I'm so glad that it is with love and respect that you are going about making this decision....good luck to you!!


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I would just hyphenate everyone's names, regardless of how long it gets. 13 letters isn't that long for a hyphenated name anyway, and I've heard plenty of longer hyphenated names.


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## onlyzombiecat (Aug 15, 2004)

I personally would choose one last name for my whole family. I prefer that for my family. It really isn't an issue of passing on a name for us but more convenience and feeling like a family unit.

I think the idea of creating a new name based on/combining both of your last names is a good idea for your kids.

I don't like splitting the names strictly by gender. I don't think that goes with the reasons you want to pass on your name. If you do a split then maybe give one boy your last name so a boy and girl have yours and a boy and girl have his.

If your dd is 6 does she have input on this? Is she the type to be bothered by her siblings having a different last name... possibly with family of origin you are all closer to?

What kind of grandparent has dh's biological father been? If he is totally awesome and involved I think it would be great for the kids to have the name of someone they know and love rather than a name based on principles.


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## Ola_ (Sep 5, 2008)

I don't think having different last names is a problem, unless it's a problem for you. My mom remarried so her last name changed and my two youngest siblings have that last name as well. Then I got married and changed my last name, so now me, 3 of my siblings, and my mom have 3 different names between us. I don't feel this makes us any less of a family.

I know a couple who kept their own last names and one of their daughters has dad's last name, the other has mom's last name. I thought that was really neat (maybe even more so because the one with mom's last name resembles dad and vice versa).

FWIW I took my DH's last name because of some issues with my bio father. I didn't want to carry on the name of the guy who cheated on his wife while she was having his baby, and then pretty much disappeared from our life.


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## Barefoot Farmer (Feb 13, 2004)

I sincerely appreciate all the responses and input. I have read them thoroughly and am taking in all the advice.

A couple of points: I understand that my feminist principles are just that priniciples; but I'm not one to just throw them away for the sake of ease. We don't know ANYONE whose children carry their mother's last name and while everyone comes to their own decision, all the decisions seem to fall in the line of handing the children the man's last name. Whether it was b/c it "meant more to him" or "it sounded better" or whatever, it always seems to come down to that.

I do believe that the agreement my husband and I made long ago is no longer valid. It isn't fair to him and that is why we are entertaining this discussion.
For those that wonder if DH is taking this new last name instead of doing deeper emotional work on this -- you are singing to the choir. I will show DH that someone agrees with me, but that's all I can do (besides being supportive).

My father-in-law, real bio-dad to DH, is fabulous and a very involved grandfather and a very loved father-in-law (who wrote a letter to my DD when she was 9 mo old and told her she had "a wonderful mom who was going to save the world, at least the women in it!"). While my FIL has 3 children, DH's children are his only grandchildren. Yup, I forgot to mention that. For what it is worth, the deceipt was both until DH was 8 yrs old and then it was all MIL (both MIL and FIL state that FIL wanted to tell DH as soon as he was 8 yrs old) until DH was 31.

I am more open to the idea of splitting the names, DH gets 2, and I get 2; not gender split, just split. I'm not thrilled about 2 children not having my last name, but compromise is compromise.

Hypentating and creating a separate surname aren't options either DH or I like; we both feel like it should be one or the other. I like that we do agree on this.

As others have said before, as far as debates go, I'm pretty lucky. DH sees my side and I do see his side; and while I know our family is going to be unified by love, not by surname, a decision does need to be made, because these triplets to need a last name.

Funny sidenote: DH has mentioned that he is open to bribes in order for me to give in; I told him I felt like we were finally communicating. . . I do need a new kitchen. . . . .I wonder if I could throw my feminist principles out the door for some new counter-tops and a beautiful sink. . . my daughters may be outraged when they are 20 and are reading feminist literature, but by the time they are 40, they might just understand. . . (please remember this is a joke, real conversation, but all in jest).


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## Crunchie (Jan 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Barefoot Farmer* 
Funny sidenote: DH has mentioned that he is open to bribes in order for me to give in; I told him I felt like we were finally communicating. . . I do need a new kitchen. . . . .I wonder if I could throw my feminist principles out the door for some new counter-tops and a beautiful sink. . . my daughters may be outraged when they are 20 and are reading feminist literature, but by the time they are 40, they might just understand. . . (please remember this is a joke, real conversation, but all in jest).

Oh, I'd _totally_ throw my feminist ideals out the window for some new counter tops. If you saw my counter tops, you would understand (think solid formica in some evil shade that is not quite kelly green and not quite john deere green...um, yeah).







And it's not even that I'm into decorating or even care if anything I own is "stylish." But I spend most of my time in the kitchen, and for 12 years those d*mn counter tops have been offending me. Hehe.

Seriously, I don't envy your position--but I do admire the fact that this is obviously a respectful discussion and not an argument between you and your DH.

Our son's last name is hyphenated (my name-dh's name) and I wouldn't have it any other way. It is 13 letters long, but it works. I understand that this isn't an option for you. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. If splitting the names does work for you, do it! Personally I wouldn't, but that's me and my family.







You gotta do what works for you guys. Family isn't defined by a name.

Good luck!


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## plunky (Aug 23, 2008)

I think if you're going to enact social change via child naming, you should be aware that you're going to irritate people (in this case, your DH). I bet he is somewhat resentful that you are now going to have four children, and none of them will have his name. While I don't agree with your original stand to name them after you, I don't see how this new DH name situation changes anything.

Regarding your name being hard to pronounce, etc: I don't think that's a valid argument in your DH's favor. I believe it's against the TOS to directly link, but if you look around for feminist name debates on some of the popular feminist blogs, there are a number of them. And one of the things that happens over and over and over is that the women surrender because they "like how their DH's name sounds". It hardly ever goes the other way.


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## Evergreen (Nov 6, 2002)

Since you are open to a split I think I would just give the triplet whose name sounds best with your last name yours and the other two dh's. You'll both have two and two.


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## seaheroine (Dec 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten* 
*I don't think everyone in the family needs the same last name to be unified. My dp and I have different last names. The kids have his last name. I wanted to hyphenate theirs but didn't upon his request; I really, really wish now that I had insisted. I don't feel the least bit "left out" as another poster said.

*I think reconsidering your agreement based on new information would be fair. I think you either a) hyphenate all four kids' last names

Yes. Just yesterday I was given a hard time at a laboratory because DH and I's names don't match -- his name on the insurance ID card and my name on the labwork order. The woman working was so confused...going on and on about how she didn't think billing would accept our different last names, despite the fact we ARE married and I AM on the insurance policy. ???







:

I mean, WTH? I told her I didn't change my last name when we were married and it seemed to go right over her head. I _love_ my last name, I want to keep it (much to DH's disappointment - he also thought uniform last names were a sign of familial unity).

DD also has his last name and my last name as a second middle. I wanted her to have my last name but it wasn't a hill I had to die on so I let it go. Not a huge deal.

OP, in your case, I would definitely work out a compromise. I would either hyphenate the children's names (all) or allow the triplets to carry DH's name. It seems as though it is as important to him as it was to you. Since DD got your name, it seems fair to allow some of the other children to have his, especially since he feels so strongly about it.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

I just want to say, OP, that it sounds like you and your DH have a wonderfully respectful, compassionate relationship.







:


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## Cherie2 (Sep 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Barefoot Farmer* 
I am more open to the idea of splitting the names, DH gets 2, and I get 2; not gender split, just split.

I like it!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Barefoot Farmer* 
.I wonder if I could throw my feminist principles out the door for some new counter-tops and a beautiful sink.

laughup


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## DaughterOfKali (Jul 15, 2007)

I would give them your dh's last name as a middle name (they can have more than one middle name).

I like the idea of children having the woman's last name...Whether that's her maiden name or married name.


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## jennydecki (Jun 8, 2009)

There are lots of different last names in my family as well and we are united, but it can cause problems with the siblings having to explain that they are siblings at school - but not really a big deal.

I like the idea of creating a new last name. It doesn't have to be a perfect hybrid of both of your names...just pick something you like for your family.

Because if you do a gender split and the boys get daddy's name, that's just as patriarchal and when those boys marry (if they do) then it's still the man's name getting passed down and yours goes up in a puff of feminist smoke unless one or both your girls choose to keep the tradition going. It's a gamble. Maybe not a big deal.

Ultimately, the last name is nothing more than something you see on your mail and spell for people over the phone. I don't spend a lot of my life thinking about my last name (which is 9 characters and has more consonants than any name should be allowed to have). My last name does not represent that I am attached to or connected to my DH's family. Heck, if I had my druthers I'd change ALL of our last names to my great-grandmother's last name to honor her memory and show my children who I want them to grow up like...but it's not worth the hassle with so much other stuff (LOL just life stuff) going on every day.

Isn't it enough for DH that he's changing his name to reflect his happiness at the good news?

But if you do half and half, I wouldn't do it based on gender - that seems to go against the original reason you wanted your daughter to have your name in the first place. Maybe alternate names based on who gets born when. Your first triplet will have his last name, the second triplet will have yours and the last will have his. Still an even split, but left to chance or the universe or a higher power. Just a thought


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## pixiekisses (Oct 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Barefoot Farmer* 
Funny sidenote: DH has mentioned that he is open to bribes in order for me to give in; I told him I felt like we were finally communicating. . . I do need a new kitchen. . . . .I wonder if I could throw my feminist principles out the door for some new counter-tops and a beautiful sink. . . my daughters may be outraged when they are 20 and are reading feminist literature, but by the time they are 40, they might just understand. . . (please remember this is a joke, real conversation, but all in jest).











If you do a half and half split however, I wouldn't do it girls vs. boys, I'd either make it so it's a girl and a boy with your name, and a boy and a girl with his name.
Or something like jennydeck says under here:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jennydecki* 
Maybe alternate names based on who gets born when. Your first triplet will have his last name, the second triplet will have yours and the last will have his. Still an even split, but left to chance or the universe or a higher power. Just a thought


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## bobandjess99 (Aug 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Smokering* 
.







It does seem like it might cause confusion down to the line to have _triplets_, not just regular siblings, with different last names.

This is, I swear, true. My local LLL leader had a set of twins. First vaginal, second by C/S (turned transverse, could NOT move him into position, turns out he was ALL entangled in the cord, and would NEVER have come out) and due to the timing of it all, the girl, who was born first vaginally, and the boy, who was born second by C/S, were born on different days (just before and just after midnight), by different methods, were different genders, and (due to pre-agreement by mom and dad) were given different last names.









the hospital had NO way to even begin to deal with the different last names thing. I guess the way they enter the births, with twins, it's like one big entry, with spaces for seperate first names...but no way possible to input different last names, LOL! Definitely shook up the staff that day!
Twins of different gender? common. Twins born of different days? rare, since most are delivered via scheduled section in the morning. One born natural, one C/S? even rarer still, since many don't even try to deliver natural, and those who do, either are successfull and deliver both, or unsuccessful earlier in the process, and have both by C/S. With different last names? unheard of.


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## TEAK's Mom (Apr 25, 2003)

We have two dds. Dd1 has dp's last name and dd2 has mine. Some people are confused, but it works well for us. The funny thing is that dd1 has grown to look like dp's family and dd1 like mine.

ETA: A little honest bribery can be fun. DP got new duck decoys in exchange for a homebirth.


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

Why not have your DH change his name to your last name instead? My sister's husband took her name. I hate DP's last name so our children are going to take my last name.


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## frontierpsych (Jun 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Brann-Klown










or Klown-Brann... sounds like a really terrible cereal marketed to kids.


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## thyme (Jul 17, 2003)

I am another woman who kept her name after marriage, and my husband and I decided our children would have my last name. (His last name is their middle name.) So far we have had zero problems. I do like having the siblings with the same last name - if I were in your situation I would continue with the naming pattern you have already established, and find a nice way to honor your DH's dad in a different way.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Barefoot Farmer* 
Hyphenating isn't really an option; our children's last names would be about 13 letters long and nightmarish; and I do like the "style" of one last name.

Only 13? That's not bad... My one last name is 11. If we had hyphenated it would have been 18.

I wanted everyone to have the same last name so I wouldn't give your babies a different last name than dd or do a gender split. I'd consider naming one of the boys after the grandfather. Or giving both boys his name as a middle name. Or one boy could have his first name and the other his middle name with all kids having his surname as a middle name or a hyphenated name.


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## Girlprof (Jun 11, 2007)

I'm loving the bribery possibilities, LOL!

We did a blend of our former names. Mine was common, along the lines of ******. His was less common, but not obscure, and ethnically marked and quite lovely (say O'Leary). But he insisted on not going the patriarchal route so we are The Newnames.

I know you don't like this idea but for us, it has been great. We are the only Newnames in the world, which is very cool. Newname is along the lines of O'******; it now sounds vaguely non-Anglo Saxon, but the origins are unclear. We've been taken for Irish, Italians, Germans, and possibly something I'm forgetting.

For me, it was important that we all have the same last night. I didn't want anyone to be the odd one out and DH felt the same way. It's like we are a brand new "team" which we both really like. Sure, not everyone feels that way, but for us, that was important.

Being the only Newnames has turned out to be extraordinarily satisfying. Of course, now I want our kids to keep their names when they get married!


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

One thing I can tell you is that as a kid, I hated my parents having a different last name than me. As such, it was important to me as an adult for everyone in the household to have the same last name. Could you all take the new last name?


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## MaerynPearl (Jun 21, 2008)

Growing up... I was my moms second oldest and my fathers second youngest... my fathers oldest had a different last name from the rest of his kids (6 of us with the same name, 1 with her mothers last name) my mothers 5 kids had 3 different last names (oldest had his fathers name, his father died when my brother was only a few months old... two youngest have their fathers last name)

I never ever gave it a second thought nor did anyone I talked to that when my baby sister and I would hang out... our names are nothing alike but we both look very alike... everyone still knew we were sisters. For the most part... last names really dont matter until you get down to legal stuff and military.

My thought? Give them the name that is further up in the alphabet, they will be closer to the front in classes that are seated by last name


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## crl (May 9, 2004)

Honestly, I would stick to the deal. You've already named one child that way.

For what it's worth, I kept my last name, but we gave DS DH's last name. (My last name is one of his middle names). DH offered to change his name to mine. And he offered to give the kids my last name. And he offered to do the gender split. (Really, who could help but love this guy?) But none of that was important to me. What was important to me was keeping my name. But for you, something different is important. And you all made a deal based on what was important to you and that hasn't changed.

It does seem like it would be nice to find a way to honor the connection with newly discovered biological father. Can you do that through middle names?

Catherine


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gsd1amommy* 
Did I miss somewhere that it was the bio-dad's/step-dad's deception? It is entirely possible that her MIL was not truthful. Why the leap?

He raised his son from age 8 on, but ostensibly as his step-son. So it wasn't just the MIL's omission.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
One thing I can tell you is that as a kid, I hated my parents having a different last name than me. As such, it was important to me as an adult for everyone in the household to have the same last name. Could you all take the new last name?


Why? I kept my name; the kids don't seem to have a problem with it.

A couple of years ago, a librarian asked me why dh and I have different last names. I said, "because it's 2007." She didn't know what to say!!


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## frontierpsych (Jun 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
Why? I kept my name; the kids don't seem to have a problem with it.

A couple of years ago, a librarian asked me why dh and I have different last names. I said, "because it's 2007." She didn't know what to say!!









My aunt and uncle married circa 83, and she didn't change her name. She just didn't like the way they sounded together. I took DH's last name because it sounded better to me, and was shorter. No in-depth thought involved.


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## Ceili (Nov 21, 2001)

I kept my name and the kid (soon to be kids) have my last name. It was in part a feminist decision on my part, but also practical. As the primary caregiver it is simpler for me to have the same last name as the kids. I'm the one dealing with the doctor, the school, etc. It's less confusing if the kids and I have the same last name.

Ds and the new baby both have a family name from dh's side as their middle name. Ds's middle name is dh's grandmother's maiden name and new baby's middle name will be MIL's maiden name.


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## XanaduMama (May 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Barefoot Farmer* 
2. DD is 6 years old and has my last name. I'm not thrilled with the idea of some of my children having some last name, and some of my children having another; unless I divide it by gender???

This is what we've done, actually, and I know several other couples who have given their kids different last names. Ours happen to be divided by gender (dd has my last name, ds has dh's), but that wasn't planned; if we have a 3rd, we'll likely flip a coin or see which last name works better with the first name choices!

Each of our kids has the other parent's last name as a 2nd middle name, so both names are there. We also wanted them to be able to choose to use both last names etc once they're old enough.

My mom remarried when I was a kid, so my sister and I had diff last names to her and our brothers. But it was never a big deal--everyone knew we were siblings, and the biggest complication was correcting our friends who called her "Mrs Mylastname" the first time they met. Mixed families are so common these days.


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## deny_zoo29 (Sep 21, 2008)

I would say in this case I would have to hyphenate even though I really don't like the idea of doing that. This is only way I can think that all of your children can have the same last name. Then neither one of you has to win or lose. You are both in your children and their names.
Or I would give up on this particular feminist idea and give all the kids DH's last name, including older daughter. That way DH can feel he is passing on the name of the father he actually has and since you have no deep ties to your last name either.
Just my thoughts 

P.S. Our experience with this: My partner has two older brothers and they have a different dad from her and her younger brother, as teens they took her dad's last name. As an adult her 2nd oldest brother reverted back to his father's last name (though he hates his dad and is getting married in 3 months and changing his name again). So of the 4 kids, 3 have the same last name now, and 1 different. And actually the younger two kids did not know older two were not "full" brothers until they were in middle school because they all had the same last name!


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## TheBluebird (Dec 20, 2006)

I dunno. I could see siblings with different last names getting quite tired of explaining to people (schoolmates, etc), "yes that's my brother, yes we have the same dad, blah blah".

I personally would want all my kids to have the same last name unless they have different dads. I really regret not giving DD my last name. Like you said, they come out of your body, you deserve to give them YOUR name.


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## Sailor (Jun 13, 2006)

I have a different last name than anyone in my family. My mom said that she realized, when she gave birth to me, that I was hers to guide into adulthood, but ultimately I was my own person - belonging to no one but myself. So, she gave me a new last name - that she created, having no relation to anyone in the family. Signifying that I was my own person.

I always thought that was very cool, as a kid, and loved having my very own last name. It was especially "revolutionary" of my mom because we come from a culture where EVERY woman changes her last name to the man's, and the father "giving away" his daughter into her husband's "keeping" is still a very strong tradition. So, it was very cool and very "radical" of my mom to break out of it and give me my own "independence" ... in a very symbolic way.

We're trying for our first, and we're toying with the idea of either giving our child their own last name or somehow combining ours.

However, it's not that important to us that we all have the same last name.

I would try to compromise on this. Maybe create a combination from your two last names, or hyphenate (the amount of letters you mentioned isn't that much at all), or make a totally new one.


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

I don't agree with the same last name equal unity either.

My friends kept seperate last name because her name would have been the same name as someone that is now serving life in prision. Husband's cousin name. They wanted to avoid possible issues. Now their children son has dad's last name -dad won coin toss. Second child was her last name because dad one coin toss on first child. (How is that for decission making?)

My son's last name is from his bio-dad. We worried about the unity thing so I hyphanated my last last name 1st husband - 2nd husband. Our girls have their biodad's last name.

Neither of our families are suffering from unity issues.

Occassional question but now days it is so common.

I would personally give one boy one girl dad's name and one mom's last name or go for an all new name.

My last name is 14 letters. Only a few more letter than my madian name.


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## crunchymamatobe (Jul 8, 2004)

Our son has both of our last names, no hyphen. It sounds fine, but it is 13 letters long. No problems so far.

In your shoes, I might choose a new last name for the whole family, possibly something that blends the two 'main' names, or just keep the formula you used for your daughter with your DH's last name as a second middle name.


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## pjs (Mar 30, 2005)

I would give all the kids dh's last name. Perhaps there is some deeper emotional work that needs to happen, but after living life for 31 years and probably feeling in some ways less than or whatever, he finally has truth and wants his children to reflect his truth. He wouldn't care when he made the agreement because the name had no significance, now it does and it means A LOT to him. When it comes to feminist ideals, it doesn't seem to me that choosing a man's name over your own because it is hugely important to him is abandoning your ideals, but rather putting people (and their real feelings) ahead of your own desires. In a marriage, doesn't it usually work out better when we put others ahead of ourselves (obviously not in an abusive situation, but I;ve found when I focus on meeting my husband's needs, he tries and focuses on meeting my needs).


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## Amylcd (Jun 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evergreen* 
Since you are open to a split I think I would just give the triplet whose name sounds best with your last name yours and the other two dh's. You'll both have two and two.

I agree with this. My last name is hyphented. My oldest DD has my maiden name, the younger two have their fathers last name.

Quote:

I don't agree with the same last name equal unity either.

I totally agree with this. No unity problems here...


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## phatchristy (Jul 6, 2005)

In my brand of logic it seems most logical to keep your agreement, though with the triplets give them the new middle name as their father's surname.

DH and I kept our own names. DC have hyphenated last names. My name first. My DC who are old enough have both asked to only use my name now.

The original plan was to choose a name for our family (between the two). DH renigged on it. So, I kept my name, etc. etc. and so forth with the rest of the story. We were already married at that point.

That may be the one thing that I'd go back and change. He kept on saying he'd do it, he'd do it (just a simple form) however he did not. One excuse after another until he felt enough people knew him in his career that he couldn't change it any longer.

Which I think is rudiculous up to a point because NOBODY questions that it is 'tough'
for a woman established in a career to change her name. It's just done. Grr....

It is also most definitely possible to change your name as an entire family. My parents actually did that. My father shortened his for business purposes.


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## misswerewolf (May 7, 2008)

When I was growing up, it never occurred to me that my immediate family had 3 last names all together. I just never thought about it, and no one ever pointed it out.

My mom never changed her last name, since in her culture women keep their last names after marriage.

My sister and I both have our dad's last name.

My brother ended up having our dad's first name as his last name, due to some hospital administrative error. My parents didn't realize this mistake until waaaaay after the fact, and when they did realize it, they were too lazy to change my brother's last name.

Now, in my current family with my partner, we have one child together. Her last name is both of ours combined, a double surname, but not hyphenated. So, it's "Baby [my last name] [his last name]." It also could have been "Baby [his last name] [my last name]," but honestly the order that we have it now just sounds better.


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## remijo (May 22, 2009)

I don't think having different last names is an issue either. DS has my ex's last name (his father's), DH and I have different last names and DH insists that any children bear my surname, however we have picked out a couple names that just don't go with my last name and so agreed to use his if the match is just terrible. What's in a name anyway?


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

I will go back and read the responses, but I haven't yet. I'm just going off the OP.

I have my bio father's name but didn't really know him until I was 22. When I had DS at 25, I felt more connected to DH's family, and we gave DS DH's last name. I also had changed my name, but last fall I changed it back to my birth name. We're going to be changing DD and DS's last names to a hyphenated version.

What went into our decision that I think is relevant is that my feelings about my childhood/family of origin/personal identity changed significantly. Though the reasons aren't the same as your husband's reasons, I think the process probably is similar. Growing up with an unknown for your biology is difficult, and I think you should account for the change in your husband's feelings as the reality of his family of origin has become clear to him.

Names are important, but I'm not sure if they're "the hill to die on." I struggle with this issue myself. DH has no problem with whatever surname we'd picked. We actually debated choosing a new name entirely for a while. Still he's been open to considering a lot of possibilities, which I think is important for you and your DH to do. Subverting the dominant (American) paradigm is important to me.

Not only my personal identity but my life's work hinges on feminism, so I get that part of your argument. At the same time, I see some families who don't use the typical white American naming conventions but still have fairly rigid gender roles, so I've come to the point that I don't think the name is the be-all-end-all of showing the world how I feel. In the end, it obviously is important to me, but it's a statement to other people more than my children. The kids know how we live when it comes to gender, but the outside world (especially where we are in the midwest) says, "whoa! There's something different about those people." It's really all about determining what you want to say with the names and why.


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## onelilguysmommy (May 11, 2005)

I don't know what I would do though. Probably do the same thing as you did with the older one.


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## Ks Mama (Aug 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Barefoot Farmer* 
Thoughts?
TIA

I would hyphenate your soon to be born children's names as follows:

First Middle YOURLast-HISLast

or

First Middle HISLast-YOURLast

Whichever variation sounds better.

AND I would officially change your DD's name to follow that pattern.

Also, b/c you are close with his father, and relishing in your DH's newly understood heritage, you might even consider taking on the hyphenation pattern yourself.

My reasons being that all 4 of your children are from the same father/same mother lineage, your DD is not too old to have established a career (







) using her current last name that would cause confusion - and at 6 is old enough to explain the change - and young enough for her to be able to accept it without much difficulty or confusion & assimilate it as her last name ongoing, and you don't seem to have too strong a care for the sound of your last name (thus I'm not in favor of keeping/changing only to YOUR last name) yet want to carry on your name (thus I'm not in favor of keeping/changing only to HIS last name).

I believe that honoring family heratige/lineage through last name(s) is admirable. At the very least it makes it easier for future generations to research their past.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

My kids each have their father's last names, and I'm using my maiden name (so I guess you could say that the 4 of us each have our father's last names.) So there are a total of 3 different last names in the family. It works out fine.

The only time it gets annoying is when signing greeting cards. We can't sign anything "The Lastname Family." So we sign everything "Ruth, DD1, DD2, and DS".

In your situation I'd definitely leave DD1's name alone- she's 6 and IMO that's too old for a parent-imposed name change and too young to choose to change it herself.

I'd suggest either giving all the triplets DH's last name or giving 2 of them his last name and one of them yours.


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## AmyC (Jul 3, 2005)

So is the issue that he agreed to the original agreement mostly because he was not particularly attached to his original last name since he was estranged from his (presumed) father?

Those facts have changed, the name itself has changed, and he is no longer in the same situation so if you were discussing it fresh from the start, his feelings about his name might affect what conclusion he'd come to, or whether he'd agree to "giving up" the right to pass along his name?

Imagine that this was the situation back at the time of the original discussion....if he'd known his real father and real name at that time, and hadn't been as easily able to shrug off passing it along. At that time, were you actually discussing the issue and coming to some mutual conclusion, or were you laying out what was your bottom line expectation and being clear that this was the way it would be--could he get on board or not?

If it's the latter, then it sounds like his feelings about his name weren't going to sway your feelings about what name your future children should receive. If it was the former, then it sounds like you were open to discussion or coming to some conclusion that wasn't exactly the first choice you were proposing.

Maybe revisiting that can help you decide whether it was a definite, a deal-breaker kind of thing (to give children YOUR name, no matter what) or something that just happened to work out because he didn't have a strong attachment to his name.

We had a similar situation, not that I was determined to pass along my name, but that I was open to either name being passed along. I didn't want to hyphenate, I didn't want to "automatically" pass along my husband's name, I didn't want to use either surname as a middle name or second middle name (that could depend on the name choices, but as a rule I was settled on picking one or the other name as a surname, and giving a first & middle name.)

I was open to using both last names for different kids, too. I didn't like the idea of a gender-based split, but going in order and alternating seemed democratic.

In that case, we'd have our daughter (she ended up with his name), then our twin sons. The first born twin would have had my last name, and the second twin would have gotten his father's last name. (How freaky would that have been for people to deal with?! Multiples with different last names!!! Way to emphasize the whole "these are two individual people" value!







)

My husband was open to all those possibilities, but not really happy about them or equally comfortable with them. He was able to articulate reasons that he was attached to his name and had some feelings about passing it on (having his children have that name), basically bringing to the table the same feelings that _I_ was expressing. (That I wasn't comfortable automatically leaving out my name, not even considering options, etc.)

The things we considered included a range of feelings, like "feeling funny" at the thought of explaining what we were doing (explaining to his elderly parents, for example.) It was clear that we needed to "get behind" what we were doing, especially if there was going to be ANY discomfort in straying from the "expected." (Wouldn't want him jumping through hoops, so to speak, for no reason or for something we weren't particularly invested in.)

In the end, aesthetics played the biggest role. Our daughter's name is really clear and straightforward, and his simple English name really suited it. It was perfect.

My longer, difficultly-spelled German name wouldn't have fit. (Though I love my German name combined with his name....us having our individual names and being paired is VERY aesthetically pleasing to me. Though my name, Amy, fits really like a glove with his last name and if I'd changed my own name it also would be pretty classic.)

We had the same situation with the boys and their names....they do fit very pleasingly with his last name. I already had decided that what we did with the first child would set the trend, unless there was reason to reconsider (if we went with heavily German names, or something.) So it wasn't that we were considering using my name with the boys, just that what we chose DOES fit well with that same last name (even though we were planning to use the same last name as we'd used with our daughter, no matter what.)

I do know someone who went with the mom's last name for their daughter. (The dad was adopted and not very attached to his surname; it was an easy decision to make.) They weren't definitely planning to have more kids, but they'd agreed that if they did, they could switch out and use the dad's name for the second child. I have lost touch with them and don't know if they had any more kids, or what they did for names, but the plan was to alternate surname based on birth order, not gender.

If you decide that all along, it was going to be about a mutual decision (and not just whether or not he could agree to YOUR decision and knowingly get on board), then you could revisit the idea and just agree to name them alternating based on birth order (not gender.)

Then if that idea just doesn't fly with you two (because triplets with different last names is too confusing or whatever), you'll have a bit more of an answer.


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## ~pi (May 4, 2005)

I am in favour of letting fate decide. E.g. pp's suggestion that first and third get his name; second gets yours.

We did this in a way, though a little further in advance. We flipped for last name at our wedding ceremony. (DH's idea.) I "won," so DH took my name. DH, I and DS all have DH's bachelor name as a middle name.


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## pixiekisses (Oct 14, 2008)

OP, did you guys make a decision yet?


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## MadiMamacita (Jan 29, 2006)

nak and havent read all the replies
just wanted to say that i have my fathers last name and my brother has my mothers last name. it has not ever even once been an issue.


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## kcstar (Mar 20, 2009)

I have only read the initial post, so apologies if this is out of sync.

Given the new information, I would encourage you to divide it by gender. Girls get your name, boys get his.

Partly basing it on a very old "miss manners" type column that suggested exactly this.

EDIT after reading:
I took my husband's name because I didn't have any fondness for my birth name. A combination of my relationship with my parents, and the little bit I did know about my grandmother's ex-husband.

I have known at least one family that divided their names by gender, and I think that worked okay for them. I may have known another that gave each of their five children a different combination of last names, but I only ever knew them by the father's surname. (I think one child had her name, one had his name, one had hers-his, one had his-hers, or something like that.)

To me, the gender part makes genetic sense. Only girls can pass on the mitochondrial DNA. Only boys can pass on the Y-chromosome.


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

I don't know, thats tough. I changed my last name to DH's after my DS was born (DS got DH's last name), and have kind of regretted it ever since. This is as much because I dislike his dad's family as because of anything else... His mom's family (who we see a LOT more than his dads, thankfully) is wonderful, but of course he has his dad's last name. With DS2, we gave him my last name as his second and still gave him DH's last name. So, I definetly understand the issue...

I think I'd seriously consider changing all of your last name's to a composite of both (hislastname-yourlastname), or else give all the kiddos his last name as a second middle name?


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## AlmostAPpropriate (Oct 23, 2004)

I like the idea of gender split. Especially as you have an equal number of kids getting each. DH can have his sons carry on his family name. You can teach you daughters your femenist values.


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## AlmostAPpropriate (Oct 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 
.

The only time it gets annoying is when signing greeting cards. We can't sign anything "The Lastname Family." So we sign everything "Ruth, DD1, DD2, and DS".

In this case they could easily sign the Smith/Brown Family since there really are only two names involved.


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## kcstar (Mar 20, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AlmostAPpropriate* 
In this case they could easily sign the Smith/Brown Family since there really are only two names involved.

Or hyphenate for this particular situation. I think hyphenating is what the family I knew that did the gender-split did when signing things "The ... Family".


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## Aufilia (Jul 31, 2007)

Eh, I'm probably the dissenter (and will freely admit I didn't read all 5 pages) but I might feel inclined to change to his last name. It sounds like that's the extended family you are closest to and identify with the most, and that would count for a lot with me. Plus the spelling thing.... my maiden name was easy and spellable, and after 12 years I am still annoyed how often I have to spell my married name (or tell people how to pronounce it...and honestly... it's a simple enough name, very phonetic, it's just unusual). Patriarchy aside, I think using names to honor those you love is a wonderful thing to do.


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

I haven't read, the rest of the thread, just the OP, so as not to influence my answer.

I would go with dividing by gender. All the girls get your surname with DH's as a middle name, and all the boys get DH's surname with yours as a middle name.


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

Haven't read the replies.

As much as I don't love hyphenated names, I think this would be a good situation for hyphenation.

Or else come up with a third name that is somehow a combination of them both.

My third choice would be to change your dd's last name and have all your kids have dh's last name.

I would personally not want my kids having different last names, so that would be my last choice.


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~pi* 
We did this in a way, though a little further in advance. We flipped for last name at our wedding ceremony. (DH's idea.) I "won," so DH took my name. DH, I and DS all have DH's bachelor name as a middle name.

That is totally awesome! I love it!

In the OP situation though, I think I would make the boys have mom's last name as a middle name and then dad's last name and the girls have dad's last name as middle and then mom's last name.


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

If doing a gender split, why not girls get dad's boys get mom's? That way, when they get married, the mom's name gets passed down. Assuming the boys' wives change their names. That would mean changing dd1's name, but that seems to be inevitable anyway.


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Irishmommy* 
If doing a gender split, why not girls get dad's boys get mom's? That way, when they get married, the mom's name gets passed down. Assuming the boys' wives change their names. That would mean changing dd1's name, but that seems to be inevitable anyway.

Hmmm... I think adding a middle name is different than a new last name though. If DD1 is old enough to know her last name, I wouldn't want to change it, personally. Otherwise though, it is a nice idea to give girls Dad's name and boys Mom's.


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## petra_william (Nov 28, 2007)

hmm... as it stands we all have different surnames. we arent married and we gave ds the name we decided we would have once getting married which is hyphenated and a combination of both (my name is already hyphenated so i had to pick one name which was hard enough)
but ive got to say it is tricky and often confusing when telling people our different names. booking flights, booking in to soft play areas, or other events,...
so im looking forward to us all having the same name.


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## mummyofan (Jun 25, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Have you considered a new last name that combines both of your names? No hyphinated, but a mix that would just be both of your names smooched together.

I do know someone, him and his sister both have different last names but the same parents. Neither of them really had much of an issue with it beyond explaining to others why.


ooh, I really like that idea.
FWIW I would have to have all the children the same, but that's my opinion...
cool idea!


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## WC_hapamama (Sep 19, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *frontierpsych* 







My aunt and uncle married circa 83, and she didn't change her name. She just didn't like the way they sounded together. I took DH's last name because it sounded better to me, and was shorter. No in-depth thought involved.
















I took my DH's last name because it was less "teasable" than my maiden name... so I went from Payne to a mostly unpronounceable, not terribly common Japanese surname with the same amount of letters.

One of my aunts kept her married name after her divorce just because she didn't want to go back to Payne.


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## Peppermint Poppies (Jan 7, 2007)

I haven't read the whole thread ...

Kind of a different situation, but my mum went through this after she remarried when I was 6 (my bio dad died). When I started school, I wrote my name on my schoolbooks with stepdad's surname, which, at that time, wasn't my name at all. My mum sat me down and said that she wanted me and all my sisters to have the same last name, so I needed to think very carefully about which name I wanted. In the end, she left it up to me to decide for myself and my sisters (since I was the oldest). I eventually chose stepdad's surname. I now feel very proud that my mum trusted me to make such an important decision, even though I was so young. So that might be something else to consider in your case - let your DD decide, after you have explained all the pros and cons to her.


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## lafemmedesfemmes (Nov 16, 2003)

i like the thought of one poster upthread who liked the idea of children getting their mother's last name, whether it's her maiden name or married name.

i also like the idea of a previous poster who suggested asking what the oldest child thought about the whole name thing.

if i were in your situation, i would be inclined to continue naming the children the same way i had named the first child, though possibly using dh's new last name as the only middle name, in order to give it more prominence. i say this because the reason you gave for your children to have your last name is compelling enough for me; i agree with it, to some extent.

however, i'm not particularly attached to the idea of my own children sharing my name, or even sharing the same name among themselves. my best friend has four children, and they all have different last names that she and her partner at the time (the first fathered the first three children, the second fathered the last child) picked individually for them. they are all quality names (eg, love, truth, peace, etc), and i *love* that idea. both men feel that they know who their kids are, the kids know they're related to each other, so matching names is a formality that has little meaning for them.

in my family of origin, my mother married three times, and her two children (my brother and i) have different fathers. so i have her first husband's name, my brother has her second husband's name, and she continues to use her third husband's name (she's a widow, so i completely understand her attachment to that name). i don't have any problems with it at all. and most people don't bat an eye.

in my own family, i didn't have any intention of changing my name when i married, but it meant a lot to my husband that we had the same name. when he didn't want to change his name to mine for the same reasons i didn't want to change my name to his, we picked out a name we would both change to. when my husband backed out of that, he suggested that we both hyphenate. and that's what we did. our new name is an ungainly 14 letters and 4 syllables long, but my husband got the "unity" he was looking for, and neither one of us was "discarding" an identity to be "subsumed" in the other's. our children share the same name. overall, we like being "team hislastname-mylastname". 

christina


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## Barefoot Farmer (Feb 13, 2004)

Just wanted to thank everyone for their input and their stories. I have read all the replies and really enjoyed them.

We have pretty much decided to split the kids, he gets 1 boy, 1 girl. I get 1 boy, 1 girl. Which ever kid we don't get, get's the other's last name as a second middle name (what we have done for DD1). We both love nature-inspired middle names (which DD1 has) and don't want to give up that tradition.

If honesty is to speak, I'm a bit disappointed that not all my children will have my last name; I am also sort of happy that 2 of my children won't have to deal with pains of having a difficult to pronounce, spell, etc type of name.

Compromise is compromise. Still waiting to see what happens with the countertops. . . . .


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## kcstar (Mar 20, 2009)

I'm glad you found a solution you can live with!


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## lafemmedesfemmes (Nov 16, 2003)

awesome. that's pretty much as fair as it gets, given the circumstances.  glad you can both work with it!

christina


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Barefoot Farmer* 
Just wanted to thank everyone for their input and their stories. I have read all the replies and really enjoyed them.

We have pretty much decided to split the kids, he gets 1 boy, 1 girl. I get 1 boy, 1 girl. Which ever kid we don't get, get's the other's last name as a second middle name (what we have done for DD1). We both love nature-inspired middle names (which DD1 has) and don't want to give up that tradition.

If honesty is to speak, I'm a bit disappointed that not all my children will have my last name; I am also sort of happy that 2 of my children won't have to deal with pains of having a difficult to pronounce, spell, etc type of name.

Compromise is compromise. Still waiting to see what happens with the countertops. . . . .

Congratulations on working things out. I think compromise is an important ingredient in a successful, healthy relationship. I haven't read all the posts - my first thought was to reach a similar compromise. These days, at least where I live, it's pretty common for family members to have several different surnames in the same household. As for tradition - that's cultural. There are some cultures where one son will be given the mother's surname, if there have been no other males to continue that family name - so it isn't uncommon in those cultures for one nuclear family to have different surnames.

I have a different last name than dh and dk's. I've heard the arguments that it doesn't demonstrate family unity and that it could be confusing to the children. I always said that our behaviour and attitude would demonstrate family unity - and if my children were confused about who their parents are and what family they belonged to, then we had bigger problems than what we were called.

Lastly, I wouldn't forget that at some point in the future, when they are older, your children may decide to change their surnames themselves - to use the "other" name in your family, or to their partner's name, or just to re-invent themselves. It isn't a permanent choice...


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Barefoot Farmer* 
Compromise is compromise. Still waiting to see what happens with the countertops. . . . .

Hmmm... Any chance you have a set up with an island and a breakfast bar so one can get the countertops themselves to choose a material and the other get the island and bar?


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