# June Rockstar (formerly Whatever'ing) Mamas 2012



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Member List:

lyeterae ~ Baby boy born February 2011
annie ~ Baby girl born April 7, 2011
Barefootscientist ~ Baby boy born May 30, 2011
AnnieA (due 7/18) ~ Baby girl born July 17, 2011
MarineWife (due 7/30) ~ Baby boy born July 25, 2011
Baby_Cakes (due 8/16) ~ Baby boy born August 16, 2011
MovingMomma (due 8/9) ~ Baby girl born August 18, 2011
akind1 (due 9/28) ~ Baby girl born October 11, 2011
mom2one (due 10/23) ~ Baby boy born October 21, 2011
jeninejessica (due 12/01) ~ Baby girl born November 29, 2011
Kindermama (due 1/6) ~ Baby boy born January 1, 2012

May thread: http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1352341/may-2012-rockstar-mamas/200


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Thanks for the new thread! Subbing in case I don't end up posting


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

That's funny - because in MY mind we are the old "CTA people". In no universe was I *whatevering* but I guess my husband was!!









I am happy I didn't







dodge the egg that was Arianna though - since she has decidedly grown on me! he he he

JJ - some healthy and easy snacks:

*Special K cereal with the original almond milk (some special K cereals taste better than others, I usually get the really gross tasting ones because they help with my blood sugar more)

*Almonds or mixed nuts or cashews. Just a little handful when I am busy really helps.

*Greek yogurt (I put a handful of mini chocolate chips







)

I also have protein shakes, but I get those for free from my brother. I am sure they are too pricey for me to actually buy.

Just a couple quick ideas. I am sure I have more in my head, I will think about it some more.

What else were we talking about? I seriously have ADD. I need to write notes for real.

AFM - I feel decidedly more calm these days









It is kinda nice. I feel like A isn't driving me crazy every day all day long. It was rough there for a while.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I was never really seriously CTA - cycles too wonky for that. And I wasn't nearly as hardcore as some of the ladies on those threads seemed to be!

Now, we are more seriously avoiding, but it means, for us, more use of condoms. because I can't temp anymore to save my life; I am too freaking tired to remember.

Healthy snacks? we do lots of granola bars. Lots.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Thanks for the new thread! When we were CTA, DH was avoiding, I was just charting to provide him with the info!







And waiting him out! We got pregnant the first time through user error, and then once we lost that baby, we never avoided after that. Got pg w/DD on the third cycle post M/C.

Healthy snacks? Ugh, so bad about this. I have a hard time finding time to eat before I leave for work. Today I've had coffee and a bowl of brown rice w/marinara sauce. So not a good way to feed a mama trying to make milk!

DD has suddenly decided to be a toddler instead of a baby. Yesterday morning when she was sitting on the toilet, she DID NOT want my arm behind her bracing her. She kept knocking it away and giving me this look like "I've got this Mama, leave me alone!"...


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Jumping in!!

We were CTA hardcore, than whatevering, then TTC hardcore. LOL. With the recent return of AF, we talked again about what to do for BC. I've decided not to start the pill again, but we are still on the fence about him getting a vasectomy. I'm just not sure I'm done, and kind of want the ability to decide later on. So for now it's condoms and maybe I'll chart -- but I'm afraid to, b/c knowing me it'll put me in TTC mode.

Alysia - I also would use the booster for short trips. He'll sit and not try to unbuckle the seat belt? Nora is a year and change younger than he is, so it's not a fair comparison, but she would be all over unbuckling the belt.

I know someone who has had their 3 yo in a HBB w/a belt for probably a year now. I cringed.

What else..?

I just bought 2 more GroVia AIOs to supplement my daytime stash. They are so snug and trim. They are no good for naps/bed but they're fine for the rest of the day. I've started CD'ing at night and so far no issues!

He was really starting to blow out the sposies and I had enough. I told Chris to take back the huge boxes he just bought from Costco of the Huggies. I'll pick up one box from Target of the little movers to have just in case we go to grandma's or another odd situation like a dr visit or something.

JJ - did you ask about healthy snacks? Hummus wraps! If you get a pack of whole wheat wraps they are generally only 100 cal or so, and w/1/4 cup of hummus and maybe some cheese (are you back on dairy?) it's packed with protein and yumminess! And not too fattening/calorie dense. I also keep Builder bars or Odwalla bars on hand. 20 or so grams of protein in each, and they are tasty and fill you up.

Oh, and so sorry about your DH's hand! Ugh, I hope it's going to be ok.

Alysia - PL'ing. I did the 3 Day Potty Method e-book. It took about 3-4 days for it to click, and then it was basically done. She still needed to "get good" at it, but the foundation was there. I'd say overall, it probably took 2-3 weeks for it to stick. We obv had regressions now and again, and accidents here and there, but never any full out "oh man this didn't work" moments from then on out. She was 20 months old only. She hasn't *knock wood* had any accidents in at least 6-8 months...and any of them were at school when she was first starting and getting used to that so I don't even think it's fair to really count them.

No idea about long term consequences, though. Who knows?

I had NO WARNING about this AF. Nothing. Not a cramp, not a bloated feeling, not even an inkling that something might be up. I went to take nora to the bathroom and went myself and said, "Oh my God. Seriously?!?" I had NOTHING. Hence the nursing pad that got me thru the rest of the party! LOL! So - yeah ladies -- be prepared!! LOL!

Oh -- in Disney though, I had GOBS of EWCM. Like the annoying kind that make you so uncomfortable. So. 2 weeks later, AF shows! that was my only clue and I thought nothing of that EWCM past a fleeting thought that maybe it meant something at the time. I didn't even write it on my calendar!

JJ - oh man do I hear you about the fear of another! After Nora (who was A LOT like Ten sounds) it really crossed both our minds that we were never taking the chance AGAIN!! But...Lauri's right. Something changes! You look at your baby and you see a toddler and wonder...hmm...I could do it at again. It wasn't that bad. It was actually fun. And we get to make another person! LOL! And Finn is the most mellow happy wonderful easy guy -- I couldn't have gotten luckier. I'm so glad we were strong enough to take the chance again.









Also -- she's 6 mo!? Have you started solids??

I thought EC wasn't the same as PL'ing. Don't you still have to go thru it when they get older? I thought EC was more about the parent learning their cues than the baby/child actually recognizing they have to go?


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Kat, I saw that reply about the corn and laughed! Seriously?? Im glad you brushed it off.

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Well, she's a first time mom and so anxious to do things "right" that she just does what people tell her. I am probably the only crunchy person she knows. DH's family is way old school. And most of them seem to think docs know everything. Even his mom, who is cool with us not vaxing - understands why we don't, to a point, - asks if we are taking the kids to a doctor everytime they have a slight cough, or have anything going on - when 99% of the time, there isn't anything a doctor could do anyway - not with babies this young. (not that we are anti-doctor. we establish a relationship with a pediatrician for a reason - we want to be able to go to someone we know and trust should a kid be sick enough to warrant a trip, or have an accident)

eh, oh well, maybe she will think twice next time the doctor gives "orders" or at least ask why they told her to do it.

I am sooo tired. ugh.

the more babies convo came up in another forum, and someone linked a great blog post, but IDK where it is now . . . at anyrate, the couple had 3 kids but mom felt like someone was missing, so everyday for a month, she and her husband asked eachother if they wanted 1 more. some days the answer was yes, others no, but it weighed heavily in favor of "yes". She also got a piece of advice saying that if you have another, you wont' regret it, but if you choose to be done, you may one day regret not having that baby. (if this is you, then maybe you do want to at least try) - for us . . . there is no question we want a third, and when. but we also know, we don't have control over everything. I look at Norah and it's like I can not believe I am so lucky to be her mom. I love her to pieces. I couldn't ever NOT have her. I feel that way about Gabe too - even on his worst days. They are my heart. who wouldn't want to add to that?

here it is: http://www.shamozal.blogspot.com/2012/05/you-just-know-when-youre-done.html


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Oh I need to show Chris that blog! Thanks!!!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Have any of you ordered from Gogreendiapers? I WANT this diaper. I need more pockets like I need a hole in my head but some of these prints are just outrageously cute!!

http://gogreendiapers.com/made-in-usa/123-elephant-walk-mbfgg.html


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

A local online retailer carries them - I have several and LOVE. great high rise for bigger kids, double gussets for poop . . . . awesomeness. I have not ordered from the company directly though.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I am so going to try their new No-mmonia stuff. Need to see if our local mama can order us some in at a discount . . .


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> I am so going to try their new No-mmonia stuff. Need to see if our local mama can order us some in at a discount . . .


I need to order some of this. A friend gave me some to strip my microfiber and it was FANTASTIC! Haven't seen their dipes in action.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

it's out of stock  but my friend who has a cloth website has been in contact with them and said they are getting a ton more in soon (enough for her to get it wholesale!) and also that they will be redesigning their diapers.

If you look on the site Carrie, there are some diapers in clearnace section for 8.99!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I know!!! Even normally priced the $9.99 to $15.99 aren't that bad!!

I think I might try finally doing cloth diaper swap on fb. I have just a few things I don't use. Honestly even if I just get rid of them i'd be happy.
I think we are all finally over the stomach bug. Ready to get back to life!

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Also - honestly - I like the fit and the inserts better than BumGenius. BumGenius is getting to be small on Gabe, who is nearly 30 lbs and 37 inches tall or so. Also, Norah, who is 18 lbs - roughly - is comfortable in the highest rise (you can snap down on her, but it's not necessary) and makes me think they may not last on her until potty training.

The inserts in goGreen are also fluffier and seem to last longer on Gabe - I have had him in them overnight without issues. BG do not last overnight.

JIC you wanted a comparison


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

I knew I was forgetting a bunch of stuff!

JJ - sorry about your husbands hand 







I guess there are other jobs who need their hands too.

I always wondered how people could deal with the stress of being a surgeon and living everyday life. I mean, years and years of training could all go down the tubes from ONE accident! Crazy stressful.

MW - I would definitely use the other carseat if needed.

Carrie - that super sucks about first AF and did you guys get the stomach bug again?!? That sucks! I hate that thing almost to a phobia. Ok, it is a phobia.

Kat - I think I commented on that corn thread. I don't think I was mean - oops! LOL

I'll have to read that blog. I *feel* like I am done but it is such a hard question. For exactly the reason of "no one regrets having MORE children." But, regardless I am DONE for as long time, maybe forever. I need a break. It has been 6 years since I have been able to RELAX when I go anywhere. Just being able to sit down and let the kids run around when we go to an outing would be AMAZing! LOL


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> Also - honestly - I like the fit and the inserts better than BumGenius. BumGenius is getting to be small on Gabe, who is nearly 30 lbs and 37 inches tall or so. Also, Norah, who is 18 lbs - roughly - is comfortable in the highest rise (you can snap down on her, but it's not necessary) and makes me think they may not last on her until potty training.
> 
> ...


Oh thanks for this comparison!

I find that a BG with 2 inserts is more than enough for overnight. He's just not a big wetter overnight. I realized this weeks ago when his sposie would be dry when he woke up. I would wait like 20-30 min after he woke up to change him b/c then it would finally be ready.

If I leave him in his overnight cloth diaper for about 20 min, he'll usually poop in it in the morning and then we can just proceed as normal. LOL.

I'm using the BG as overnite dipes really. I'm using my AIOs for during the day. I'm expecting 2 more dipes today!! Love fluffy mail!

Finn is just about 26 lbs but he is thinning out in a MAJOR WAY. I used to have 5 snaps showing across the front. Now if it's double stuffed I have 4 only, and if it's normal I have 3. In some of his dipes, the aplix is touching or even overlapping! It's NUTS.

As for more kids...I just don't know. Like I've said before, I want more, I just don't know if I want more with DH. That's horrible isn't it?









I started a blog. I don't have anythign but one post in it yet but thought I'd share w/you guys!

http://say-mommy.blogspot.com/


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *annie2186*
> 
> JJ - some healthy and easy snacks:
> 
> ...


Seriously! I just quote everything, and then go back and delete anything I don't need to respond to! Otherwise I forget.

Snacks are so hard because I'm so picky. DH eats a lot of yogurt and smoothies, but I can't/won't do either. The texture just icks me out. I have started getting accustomed to hummus though. And we get "Just Right" cereal, and I've been eating a lot of that in the mornings. And I found dark chocolate covered almonds! And we also recently found a good trail mix at costco, so I've been munching on that. Little by little I'm finding more options.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> I was never really seriously CTA - cycles too wonky for that. And I wasn't nearly as hardcore as some of the ladies on those threads seemed to be!
> 
> ...


Yeah, I was charting and giving DH the information, but if I told him I was fertile, and he didn't bother to use a condom, that was ok too! He knew I was ready to have a baby, and he was on the fence. And then we just didn't care at all, and then like Carrie, the last few months I got decidedly not whatever-ish! lol

We are seriously seriously avoiding, with condoms. But between not dtd very often, and my cycles not returned yet, we should be ok for a bit. Which is good, because there's no way I could temp right now. The longest stretch of sleep I've gotten in probably 6 weeks has been about 2.5 hours. And that was once.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> Thanks for the new thread! When we were CTA, DH was avoiding, I was just charting to provide him with the info!
> 
> ...


We've been drinking a lot of iced coffee! It's amazing how you can wake up, have a cookie and an iced coffee, go about your day, and then at like 4pm you're like... So... I had breakfast right? No... ? Ok well then... I definitely had lunch... oh, no not that either. Hmm. Better make dinner good!"

SO cute! It's funny how potty independent they can be!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> I just bought 2 more GroVia AIOs to supplement my daytime stash. They are so snug and trim. They are no good for naps/bed but they're fine for the rest of the day. I've started CD'ing at night and so far no issues!
> 
> ...


Yay for new fluff! Yeah, we get blowouts almost everytime she poops in a sposie, but very very rarely in cloth. I like the trimness of the the sposie under some outfits, but not worth potentially ruining the outfit! I'm hoping though, as we get more into the EC, we can swap out for her thinner inserts, so the dipes won't be as bulky. Right now she needs all the absorbancy!

I totally get what you're saying about another. I look at T and she already looks like a toddler to me. She's huge!! And she's learning so freaking much every day. We sit and watch her baby videos from like 2 months old, and I want to cry, because I barely remember it. It was such a rough time that I didn't enjoy her like I wanted to. And I miss that small snuggly newborn stage. But then I think about having to do that sleep deprivation again, and the fussiness, and everything we're goingt hrough right now, and I'm like Uhhhh, am I insane? lol

I know! 6 months came so fast! She's experimenting, but not -really- eating anything. She gnaws on carrots, celery, apple, cucumber... and beef jerky :x lol. She's had tiny pieces of egg, noodles, freezie (all fruit), banana and then yesterday we tried pulled pork. She loved it! It's crazy, for a while we were letting her play with foods, and she would put them in her mouth and just let them sit there. And then we gave her the jerky one day, and noticed she was trying to chew it. Since then, everything we've given her, she tries to chew! I gave her a teething tablet in her sleep last night, and she started munching on it! So cute!

EC should generally take the place of PL'ing. They get to know what it feels like to have a full bladder etc, and will hold it for short short amounts of times after they cue you. We're not really there yet, the only one she 'holds' is her morning pee/poop. But it's only a window of a few minutes. But because they get to know the feeling or dry/wet full/empty, they retain the awareness, which is a big step towards pl'ing-- knowing when you have to go, and making the effort for someone to take you there. So... it's a combination of both. A lot of EC parents talk about how once the baby can move by themselves, they will actually head towards the potty when they have to go (ie crawl over to it and pat it until you come help them on). In the beginning though, and for us, yeah, it's a lot of just me noticing when she seems like she has to go. But it's like any behaviorism concept right- if she associates- hey, I felt that weird feeling, and I squirmed, and then mommy picked meup and took me to the potty, and I let go, and it felt better, and mommy got happy... then she's more likely to do it again, and will eventually realize that full feeling = get to potty.

Does that make sense?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *annie2186*
> 
> JJ - sorry about your husbands hand
> 
> ...


It IS crazy. I don't remember if I posted on here after the update or not, but he went in for surgery on Tuesday. No notice- he was there for a consult, and they ended up taking him in for surgery. They repaired the tendon, but he's in a cast for at least 4 weeks, and possibly longer, and then will do physical therapy. The surgeon is confident that it's repaired fully and he will regain full function, but you never know, right? So, it's a waiting game. In the meantime-- life sucks!! He can't pick T up, can't do much around the house. And he's whiny as hell. T went back to every 2 hours last night (which is sad that it's an improvement! lol) but HE kept me up every hour, waking up and complaining and whining. I get it, ok. I understand you're in a heck of a lot of pain. But I also need to function, and I can't when you wake me up every time I fall asleep!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Yay blogs! I'll figure out how to add you to my list. I'm new to blogspot, and can't do anything other than post right now!

I started one a while back, but it's not very full either! It was intended to be a pregnancy journal about the early days that I would share with family after we told everyone we were pregnant... but then I never really wrote, and didn't share it!

http://thingsthat-shine.blogspot.ca/


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I have one lonely post on mine: lifeaccidentallyonpurpose.blogspot.com I am working on another.

JJ: I hope your DH comes out of his funk fully healed! and soon!

I don't ever double stuff BG. I use my knickernappies with hemp inserts for nighttime with DS; he is a heavy, heavy wetter. DD, not quite as much.

Norah wants to stand up on her own so badly!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> I don't ever double stuff BG. I use my knickernappies with hemp inserts for nighttime with DS; he is a heavy, heavy wetter. DD, not quite as much.


Most of my stash is BG so I didn't really have much of a choice. I think this is one of the daunting things about CD'ing for a beginner -- there's no right/wrong way. You just have to play around and see what works. What works great for me might not work for you and vice versa.

I just really don't like stuffing pockets at all. I wonder if there is a good AIO nighttime diaper out there...

Still waiting for the UPS man....









Took the kids to the bagel place for lunch, then Nora had to use the potty and couldn't go there. So we walked back home so she could go, then walked to the park, played hard for a bit (I chatted w/some nice moms) and then she wanted a slurpee. So we walked allllll the way to 7-11. I got an iced coffee. I got it with just 3 sugars! I'm impressed with myself for sticking to this no artificial sweeteners. I feel loads better already. And man... Nora is 100% a different child. I can't even believe it. (well, I do, but you know what I mean.)


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Ugh, I wasn't getting updates again!







Why does that happen sometimes? And I misunderstood when kat called me out and thought she was asking me to start a new thread so I did before seeing this one. I've sent a PM to the moderator asking her to delete it.

Funny about the whatevering thing. I was never seriously CTA but that's what I think of us as first. Probably because I was the only one in my pair actually whatevering. DH thought he was TTA (or at least that's what he said).









Hm...what else? Oh!

On the regretting if you don't have another but not regretting if you do, I get the idea of that but I'm not sure I agree 100%. I think anyone is more likely to regret not having a child that they considered having. However, I do think it's possible to regret having a child or children. Some people do.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> I realized this weeks ago when his sposie would be dry when he woke up. I would wait like 20-30 min after he woke up to change him b/c then it would finally be ready.
> 
> If I leave him in his overnight cloth diaper for about 20 min, he'll usually poop in it in the morning and then we can just proceed as normal. LOL.










You could always sit him on the potty and read him a book or something instead of waiting for him to go in his dipe!


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> I'm impressed with myself for sticking to this no artificial sweeteners. I feel loads better already. And man... Nora is 100% a different child. I can't even believe it. (well, I do, but you know what I mean.)


Way to go mama!

My mom ordered the Elmo tutu birthday outfit for Ava...can't wait to get it! I showed her a picture of it and she got the biggest grin on her face and kept pointing at the picture and making this cute little noise like "Oooh!"...I love this age!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


how long do you wait when doing that? i've tried a few times but D only pooed once. i get nervous about getting peed on because his penis doesn't fit in the potty. he won't let me hold him over the toilet. he gets scared.

Carrie ~ the amount of calories in a teaspoon of sugar is really negligible compared to total daily calories. a few teaspoons in a drink wont really make a difference in your weight. there's a big difference between that and a 12 oz or 20 oz regular soda, of course.

Annie ~ I can't wait to see a pic of Ava in that tutu!


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> how long do you wait when doing that? i've tried a few times but D only pooed once. i get nervous about getting peed on because his penis doesn't fit in the potty. he won't let me hold him over the toilet. he gets scared.


The length of time varies. I have a little book that has pictures of animals and a letter associated with each one, for instance A for alligator, etc. I sing her a song for each letter to the tune of The Farmer in the Dell "A says ah, A says ah, every letter makes a sound, A says ah." Usually by the time I get to G or H, she's pooped. Some mornings it takes longer, some mornings I barely get her on the toilet before she starts going. But if she cues me that she's done (she points or grabs the toilet paper when she's done), then I take her off, even if she hasn't done anything. I don't want to keep her there against her will. Some mornings she poops and I know she's done but she wants to keep looking at her book.







I just ask her every couple of minutes "Ava, are you done?" and eventually she puts her book down and points at the toilet paper. Now I realize that with other little ones running around, doing that is next to impossible. Some mornings we are in the bathroom for almost 20 minutes.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL! I'm sorry -- I just can't get my head around it! I love that you do it, and that others do it, and part of me can see the allure and the fun in it -- but I just can't get my head around it!! It's weird...so many of my hardcore CD friends are really getting into EC. Makes me almost a little sad b/c we used to talk diapers and now they're all talking about catching pees and poops!









In a similar vein...our toilet is clogged. We only have one toilet. I think it's kind of a big deal, but when I asked DH just now to go get a plunger he gave me a look and acted like I was out of line. I don't get him sometimes. I don't know what he thinks he's going to do when he needs to take a huge dump. He just doesn't think sometimes.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> LOL! I'm sorry -- I just can't get my head around it! I love that you do it, and that others do it, and part of me can see the allure and the fun in it -- but I just can't get my head around it!!


I don't get it hardcore, either. Maybe it gets to you after you do it for a while like CDs.







I do like to give D a chance to go in the potty if I think about it (which is maybe once a month







). Once I caught him pooing and tried to get him on the potty before he was done but didn't make it. That was kind of a mess.

Annie ~ do you have a baby potty or do you use the regular toilet now?


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I use this seat http://www.target.com/p/arm-hammer-secure-comfort-potty-seat-white/-/A-14011550 on the regular toilet. Cleaning out the little potty from IKEA got old really fast! I may start using it again once Ava is able to walk to keep it out in the living room if she wants to take herself potty.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> I use this seat http://www.target.com/p/arm-hammer-secure-comfort-potty-seat-white/-/A-14011550 on the regular toilet. Cleaning out the little potty from IKEA got old really fast! I may start using it again once Ava is able to walk to keep it out in the living room if she wants to take herself potty.


^^What she said. Our seat is slightly different, but same thing. And might pull out a baby potty once she's able to move to it herself. We'll see I guess.

But yeah, we offer potty anywhere from 1-5 times a day. Sometimes we'll go almost a week where the only time we offer it is first thing in the morning. At that time, she's 95% guaranteed to go pee and poop, and will go within 10 seconds of putting her on there. After naps if she's going to go, it's usually within 30 seconds. Other times of the day... it varies, can be up to 3 minutes or so. I don't usually wait longer than that though, unless I can see her straining and pushing to go.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

The seat on the baby potty that I have detaches and can be attached to the regular toilet. Dylan still doesn't like it. I read somewhere not to wait more than 1 minute, at least for pee. I've tried to pay attention to cues but am usually paying attention to 10 different things at once so miss them if he has any. He sure hates to be in a poopy diaper, though!

He's asleep now. He fell asleep around 9:15. Last time he did this he stayed asleep until around 3 or 3:30. Last night he slept from about 11 to 4 or 4:30. That was so nice! Especially since I switched to taking my medication in the morning so I don't have any trouble falling asleep at night anymore. It was the meds keeping me up.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

EC - I think it's awesome. But , being a WAHM, I can't pay attention that closely to catch those cues. I just can't. So .. . we CD which I love doing, and they are too stinking cute.

Norah is an early bird - went to bed around 8, I woke her around 1 to change her diaper and bring her to bed with us, and she nursed easily back to sleep. woke a couple time s to nurse and up for the day at 6:30. I am trying to be better at listening to her cues about bedtime. Last night DH wanted to make a Walmart run, but she was tired, so I put her to bed and had him take DS so I could get stuff done around the house. Bliss.

Father's day . . . any ideas?


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I love when Chris takes Nora out! Especially if Finn is sleeping. It feels so free!!! I know she goes to school during the day, but then I have to pick her up, and often wake Finn to do so, so for her to be with Chris just feels loads different.

Ok, so I'm with you. I can't pay attn to all the cues, or intro the potty and wait 15-20 min. It's just not possible right now. But. If I see the look on his face and he's about to go, I still just...idk. I guess I can see with an older kid, like a 2 year old, I would say, "Tell me when you have to go potty," and wait for him to be ready to tell me so he could learn to recognize the cues. To me EC is more about ME being trained than the baby. I don't mean to offend anyone. I know you all love doing it and all the power to ya! Maybe I'll be eating my words in 2-3 years when all your EC babies are PL'ed and Finn is still in dipes. Ha!

Fathers Day - a long long time ago, Chris asked for a nose hair trimmer. Got him one! I think also I'm going to swing by the liquor store and mix up a 6 pack of interesting beers. And of course cards from me and from the kids.

Finn has a WBV today! 9 month one. Can't wait to see how he measures up!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I don't even know when Father's Day is. Is it this Sunday? Sean hasn't mentioned anything so I don't know what we'd get or do. I guess I should ask him.

Dylan didn't sleep well last night. Another restless night. Again, he never actually woke up, just squirmed all over the place so that I couldn't sleep much. And, he was up for good around 6:30. That's way too early for me and one reason why I don't mind my kids staying up until 10 or so.

EC...yeah, I'm not sure what I think about it. I know people say it's totally different from potty training but I don't really see how. You're still putting your child on the toilet and waiting for them to pee or poo in it. I get that there isn't a lot of pressure on the kids like some potty training systems but I think they are still fundamentally the same thing.

Oh, and Carrie, I meant to clarify what I said about long term effects of potty training. I doubt there would be any major negative psychological effects of it unless maybe there was harsh punishment involved. It just seems like too much work to me. I'm all about doing as little work as possible.


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

ECing is something that really interests me. I really don't get cues for pee though. Poop I can get, but I have *never* seen a baby that is *about* to pee. Now sticking them on the potty and waiting to see if they go I can kind of get.

Maybe I will start trying that.

I remember my SIL is Russian and she was saying how everyone has their baby PL at like 9 months or a year. And she was pooping and peeing on the potty first thing in the morning at about a year. Everyone was so impressed. That kid was in diapers until 3!! LOL Now I know they were part time ECing at best. Can't impress me









Storms around here have been CRAZY the past two days. Flooding down streets and hail as big as golf and tennis balls







Not COish at all. Then last night there was a freaking tornado right above my parents! But luckily it mostly missed them.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

We had a tornado watch/warning for the DC area last week. That was the day I made that cake when the electricity when out. Not normal for this area.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Sunny here! enjoyed some time in the splash pad with Gabe - he had a blast. I wish it were free, we would go every day. It's $3, which isn't much, just adds up.

Trying to decide what to do this weekend. might do the zoo . . . pretty caught up on house work, so IDK, need to get out of the house


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

So, I thought I caught Dylan getting ready to poo and rushed him in to the bathroom. He wouldn't sit on the toilet but didn't mind standing on it. He farted and thought it was the funniest thing. He really laughed out loud! Then he kept trying to fart and would laugh and laugh. Never did poo or pee in the toilet, though.









I've been trying to remember all the things he's been doing. He spent a lot of time yesterday standing up in the middle of the room and taking a few steps. One very cute thing he does is randomly lay his head down for a few seconds. For example, he'll be cruising around holding onto the couch and stop and put his head down or he'll be moving across the floor and suddenly stop and lay down. It's so sweet. At night when going to sleep, he doesn't seem to be nursing all the way to sleep anymore. He nurses for a while and then unlatches, rolls over and drifts off (sometimes). He yells at Grandma if she doesn't give him food fast enough.

Remembered something I keep forgetting to ask.

annie ~ What was so hard in the beginning with Ariana? I'm just curious because it seems we all (except for maybe Kat) had major difficulties with our babies in the first 6 months or so. At 10 months I'm finally feeling like things are starting to even out and settle down with Dylan but it's still hit or miss. Sometimes he sleeps really well, sometimes not. That's really the major thing for me because whether or not I get enough sleep determines how any given day will go.


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> Remembered something I keep forgetting to ask.
> annie ~ What was so hard in the beginning with Ariana? I'm just curious because it seems we all (except for maybe Kat) had major difficulties with our babies in the first 6 months or so. At 10 months I'm finally feeling like things are starting to even out and settle down with Dylan but it's still hit or miss. Sometimes he sleeps really well, sometimes not. That's really the major thing for me because whether or not I get enough sleep determines how any given day will go.


Hmmmm - the only thing that even is a blip on my radar is just her anti-nursing personality







She was always a "get on, get off, get going" and then from 3 months + I would pretty much have to go upstairs and lay down to nurse her or she wouldn't nurse. OHH - and she wouldn't nurse from my left boob AT ALL so my right got to be about 2 cup sizes bigger!!! Then of course at nine months she straight up just stopped









Jacinta was the HARDEST baby EVER. I still sometimes just look at her and am amazed we both survived her first 6ish months. It was really bad. I would say Tenley bad, but it didn't start right away. She gave me about 3 weeks of normal newborness and then she just stopped. sleeping. And started crying. and crying. and crying. It was tough.

When I got pregnant with M I actually was in tears ONLY because I was so scared of the first few months! I would have to tell myself *I have 8 months before the baby gets here, I have 7 months* etc.

Then M gets here and she was the most mellow baby EVER. She seriously cried like twice. At about 10 or 11 months she flipped the switch and actually got to be pretty difficult.

Arianna was kind of in between. She was a pretty mellow baby, and now as a toddler she is harder than she was as a baby but not AS hard as M.

It is crazy to think how different all kids are. Arianna is starting to actually PLAY with the older girls and it is soooooo adorable


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Oh, the sleeping thing.

A has always been a pretty good sleeper. I remember at about 8 weeks to 16 weeks she would go 7-10 hours straight at night without nursing. I would even TRY to wake her up to nurse because it hurt and she wouldn't wake up! It's so horrible that even when your young baby sleeps at night, your rock hard boobs wake you up









Then she was touch and go, but not to bad at all. I had her in a crib right next to me.

At about 11 months I put her crib in the room right next to me. There is a little bathroom separating the two rooms upstairs, and I can keep them both open so I can hear her fine.

**I don't even want to say this**

She'sbeensleepingthroughthenightformonths - shhhhhhh!!

She's an awesome sleeper, I am loooooving it









She has an off night here and there when (I'm assuming) her teeth are bugging her, but usually I don't hear a peep.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Norah has been such an amazingly easy baby. I am so lucky/blessed. Sure, she likes to be held, and likes to eat, but hey, those are easy things to do! Sleep . . . ugh. She sleeps, and ets, and sleeps. I survive. It's NBD in the big picture. I do wish she would nap longer, but Gabe didn't really do long naps until he was 1 or older.

Gabe . . . he was easy-ish. I thought he was easy at the time, but after Norah, he was meh. He would have horrible times where he would just cry, and cry, and nothing soothed him. This is as an older baby. Norah never has done that. I don't know what a third would be like. Curious though.

MW: LOL about the farting. again, such a boy thing! And that is too sweet! I love when Norah tucks her head under my chin for a moment. - precious.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Oh, I thought you had said something about things being hard or crazy or something in the beginning with Arianna.

I had the same experience with Ethan, Kellen and now Dylan. Ethan was my hardest baby but a very mellow toddler/young child. He's been more challenging since about 6yo on. Kellen was so mellow as a baby that I can't believe it was true. He is now the most difficult child. I don't remember things being too difficult with him as a toddler. I think things started to get hard with him sometime after 3yo. Dylan is in between those two as a baby. I had a hard time with him in the beginning because while he would sleep he was (is) squirmy so that I hardly slept. I was so tired for the first 6 months or so.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> EC - I think it's awesome. But , being a WAHM, I can't pay attention that closely to catch those cues. I just can't. So .. . we CD which I love doing, and they are too stinking cute.
> 
> Father's day . . . any ideas?


Oh, I totally get it. When I first started talking about EC, Rob was like "Uhhhh what about our DIAPERS?" He was genuinely distressed. No way I'd be doing EC if it meant I had to give up my fluff! lol And yes, I miss tons of cues. I'm sure if I felt the need to, I could pay more attention and catch almost everything, but I'm not concerned about it. We catch when we think of it, that's all.

We won't end up doing anything for father's day. Didn't do anything for mother's day either, which disappointed me, so it's slightly bitterness that has me not planning anything for father's day.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Ok, so I'm with you. I can't pay attn to all the cues, or intro the potty and wait 15-20 min. It's just not possible right now. But. If I see the look on his face and he's about to go, I still just...idk. I guess I can see with an older kid, like a 2 year old, I would say, "Tell me when you have to go potty," and wait for him to be ready to tell me so he could learn to recognize the cues. To me EC is more about ME being trained than the baby. I don't mean to offend anyone. I know you all love doing it and all the power to ya! Maybe I'll be eating my words in 2-3 years when all your EC babies are PL'ed and Finn is still in dipes. Ha!


Yeah, and I totally get that too. I don't know how I'd be present enough to do it full time or even really "part time". Even right now we're considered "casual" EC'ers and that's about all I can commit to. Add in another toddler and I'd be hooped!

It's really no more training than them being in the diaper though- you hear/smell/feel them go in their diaper and are then required to change it right? The only difference is that you're putting in the work before they pee/poop instead of cleaning it up after. And same as T cues me to nurse, she's starting to sign for potty a bit too.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *annie2186*
> 
> ECing is something that really interests me. I really don't get cues for pee though. Poop I can get, but I have *never* seen a baby that is *about* to pee. Now sticking them on the potty and waiting to see if they go I can kind of get.
> 
> Maybe I will start trying that.


We started out just putting her on and waiting. By fluke, the first two times I put her on, she peed immediately. It really reinforced it for us. The big thing that helped us, was someone saying to pay attention to -all- her cues, if she's fussing- there's a reason for it. The only pee cue I really notice now, is when we're nursing or cuddling- if she starts squirming and multiple times popping off the breast (without it being outside stimuli), or pushing me away, that is almost always a sign she has to go potty.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> So, I thought I caught Dylan getting ready to poo and rushed him in to the bathroom. He wouldn't sit on the toilet but didn't mind standing on it. He farted and thought it was the funniest thing. He really laughed out loud! Then he kept trying to fart and would laugh and laugh. Never did poo or pee in the toilet, though.


That is adorable!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *annie2186*
> 
> **I don't even want to say this**
> 
> She'sbeensleepingthroughthenightformonths - shhhhhhh!!


*Sticks fingers in ears* lalalallalalalalaaaaaaaaa ! I'm just telling myself everyone has babies like this, and sleeping through the night is a myth! lol

Tenley is so freaking close to crawling, it's crazy. She's planking all the time, and will push herself up to downward dog. She can move herself up to 3-4 feet away by a combination of pushing backwards, rolling and just shimmying.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> Gabe . . . he was easy-ish. I thought he was easy at the time, but after Norah, he was meh.


I think a lof this is perception. I thought Ryan was a difficult baby. He cried a lot. Looking back, though, I now realize he just cried like any baby would at being put down when he wanted to be held. I was very inexperienced with babies. I had never really babysat. Plus, I had not planned on being a parent.

Ethan was much more high needs than Ryan but it didn't bother me nearly as much. Kellen is a crazy kid but since Ryan broke me in that doesn't bother me so much. Sean doesn't know what to do with him but he wasn't around Ryan as a really young kid so he doesn't have the experience I do. Now Ethan is challenging me because I'm not used to the drama. I don't know how to respond to all the emotions of a highly sensitive kid.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

JJ, Norah is the same way, gets places, but not exactly crawling. She is working had on standing though.

Sleeping through the night??? I wish, sort of. My boobs take a lOng time to adjust to that, and I hate being engorged. I am pretty happy with our current state. She can be laid down awake in the crib and falls asleep withininutes. I bring her to bed when we are ready to sleep, nurse her, and may or may not get a long stretch after that. But, she is thus far, a much easier to bed share with baby, she jet wants to cuddle, not be all over the place.

MW: Gabe is so emotionally sensitive too, and I am at a loss sometimes. I just don't know how to help him process.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

I agree Kat. That sounds like a pretty good setup! A couple times Ten has gone to sleep after placing her in the crib, but usually it's a pretty easy process anyways of nursing, pulling off and rocking the rest of the way. On good nights, that part of the routine takes 15 minutes or less, so I have no problem with that. But I wish I had one who liked to cuddle like you, and not attack me in my sleep and nurse all night. She seems to be getting better now when we bring her into bed she doesn't nurse constantly... but she's started scratching and smacking me when she wakes up- which is hard to take at 3am! lol

I could do for sleeping through the night as in the true definition- which is 5 hours. If I could pick any routine (which obviously, you don't get to!) She'd go to sleep at about 8, nurse again at 10, and then sleep until 3ish, and wake up between 7-8am. But yeah... I figure I'll get that maybe somewhere around age 3? lol

My boobs in general are fine without nursing for much longer than I would think normal-- except last night for some random reason, before I went to bed, I was soooo engorged. I pumped, and with lazy pumping (and I have a manual pump) I got over 4oz in less than 10 minutes. It was sooo thin though. It looked like skim milk, split it half with water. I had nursed her on the other side less than two hours before, but I think I may have done that side twice in a row. But yeah, I can normally easily go 5 hours without a problem.

Ten doesn't have much interest in standing/pulling herself up at all. If we guide her, she will hold herself up against a table or the edge of her crib, etc. But won't think to try it herself.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

JJ ~ Dylan did that scratching and clawing and pinching me. Do you remember me talking about that? He still does it but since he's older he's learning to stop when I say that it hurts. It is not fun in the middle of the night, though. To give you some hope (maybe), Ethan was not a good sleeper but he was sleeping through the night when he was 2 or 2.5 yo. I didn't have to wait until 3.









Kellen is 5 today!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

I do remember that. Any tips? I've got a sunburn right now, so she does it, and I just lay there writhing in pain! She does it most when I'm nursing her, so it's my face/chest/boobs. I literally has bloody scratches on my boobs. lol. But when I'm sleeping and she does it, my brain is just... not there. lol.

We took Tenley to the Horse Races last night (it's very much a family thing, I grew up there pretty much, and my parents own a couple that are currently racing). She loved it, and loved being in the barn and reaching out and petting the horses. Anyways, obviously there were lots of new people we met. I had pumped a bottle the night before, as I said, so I brought it with us, and tried to give it to her while we were there (she's been refusing it, I think I mentioned that?). So I'm sitting in the tack room, cradling her and trying to feed her the bottle, and one of the family friends comes over and asks "What kind of milk is that in the bottle?" I laughed and told her it was very watery breastmilk (wondering if maybe she was curious about the color?) but honestly I was like WHA? Huh? What kind of question is that? I can't tell if she was trying to ask if I was feeding formula or breastmilk, or if she assumed it was formula and wanted to know what kind (she has 4 grandchildren and another due in a few months) or... I don't know. It was the weirdest thing I've been asked about breastfeeding!

Although also weird, was at a playdate with some non-crunchy people the other day, and was asked "Did you breastfeed her?" I honestly looked down at her again with a furrowed brow like "How old does she look? Does she look like the question should be "did you" not "are you"? Weird, especially because the question came from someone who did breastfeed and was asking in context of its amazing immunological properties. I just said "yes, still going!" But again.. ummm weird?


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Oh, And Happy Birthday Kellen! For some reason 5 seems like such a milestone!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

the only tip i got for the scratching and pinching was to try mittens. i never did because i couldn't find any large enough. it didn't occur to me until it wasn't much of a problem anymore that i probably could have put socks on his hands. i don't know if he would have tolerated that.

were you bottle feeding or had bottles with you when you were asked about breastfeeding? i would probably assume not breastfeeding if i saw mama with a bottle. why do you bottle feed her if you don't need to?


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Hmm. She might do the mittens while nursing, but I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it at night. Worth a shot though!

I was bottle feeding at the time, but it still just seemed so odd. Most people assume that if it's a bottle, it's formula. But at any rate... I just can't imagine asking someone point blank what they were feeding. I'm honestly not sure what information she expected to garner from it, you know? Like was there a conversation she was trying to start? If I had mentioned a formula was she going to ask for advice on choosing? Or ask why I wasn't breastfeeding, or?

Anyways, the bottle was two-fold in reason. A/ I pumped the night before because I was engorged and Tenley was asleep, and so I had the milk sitting in the fridge, and B/ Tenley started refusing a bottle, or not 'refusing', but it's like she forgot how- when we give it to her, she's just nibbles and chews on it and pushes it out of her mouth, like she doesn't know what to do with it. Anyways- this has been our savior in the car- if she has a bottle, then she's quiet and calm, otherwise, she just shrieks to get out of the car. So.... her not taking the bottle anymore makes for very unpleasant car rides! So, we're trying to introduce it again slowly. Being out at the barn seemed like a good time! lol In general though, we don't do bottles. I'm too lazy to pump and wash things!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I've done that before - pumped for relief and then wanted to use the milk up so as not to waste it. I usually let DH or DD do the bottle then. Finn won't drink thawed milk so it's either use it or toss it!

DD reliably slept 5 hours by the time she was like 2.5. I would say it happened often before then as well. Hang in there, Jenine! It won't be as long as you think. It's just going to feel like forever until it happens!

I love hearing about babies (well, love is a strong word) who naturally sleep thru. I mean it makes me envious but I also like hearing it b/c I know deep down it's possible and that sleep training isn't necessary.

Happy happy birthday, Kellen! 5! Wow. What a big boy!! It does feel like such a milestone!

Scratching/pinching - oh yeah. I just always stop him. Always. And I say, "gentle hands," and move his hand away. I usually have to hold his hand and let him fiddle with my ring or my fingers while nursing. At night, I shove the blankets b/w us, and up over any showing skin on my chest. It helps, but man is it frustrating being kicked, pinched and scratched at all night.

Just now though he was nursing and his hand wandered and started to pinch, and I was eating with my other hand so I said, "No, no, gentle hands," and he actually stopped and moved his own hand away and didn't pinch! Yay! Baby steps!

I'm exhausted as we had a rough night. I gave Chris the baby at 7 and went back to sleep until 9. I think that was the only unbroken sleep I got all night. I just poured myself a nice cup of coffee and am staring at diaper laundry and a very crumby floor that needs to be vacuumed. Ugh! I don't feel like it!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Actually, I was talking about the other mom(s) you said asked if you had breastfed. That question doesn't make any sense if you aren't bottle feeding her. And, yeah, who knows why that other lady asked what kind of milk you had. I had someone here ask me the other day if Dylan took a bottle well. She was very surprised when I told her he has never had one.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

O/T : Is anyone who has gotten ppaf charting? I just popped open my FF again and blah. It's boring and I really am not feeling CTA right now. I'm not sure if I'm going to jump right in to temping or what. Going to use condoms anyhow so it's not that huge of a deal.

...and it wouldn't be the worst thing ever to have an oops but don't tell anyone I said that!!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> I've done that before - pumped for relief and then wanted to use the milk up so as not to waste it. I usually let DH or DD do the bottle then. Finn won't drink thawed milk so it's either use it or toss it!
> 
> ...


Is it weird that I didn't want to freeze it because it looked so watery? I assume it was because of the heat, so it did it's thing and changed composition to be more thirst quenching than hunger satiating. But I didn't want to freeze it and then when I give it to her later, have her be hungry! lol

And YES YES YES about hearing about other babies who naturally sleep through the night. Every time I mention wanting Ten to sleep longer stretches to my AP group, I feel like I get $hitstormed about how the only way babies sleep longer is if you sleep train them. Like you're obviously doing something -wrong- if they sleep longer than two hours and damaging your child. Pssshhhh.

I've been doing the "Ow!" and holding her hand, but then she freaks out and starts frantically trying to get it out of my control. I finally let go, she waits a few seconds and then starts up again. It's like it's a -need- to her, and distresses her if I won't let her. Odd child.

*hugs* for the rough night. Rob's been trying to do that for me, but it's hard since I need to get her up, potty her, change her, and then bring her out and position her in the living room, and then go back to bed. Still, it's better than nothing!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Actually, I was talking about the other mom(s) you said asked if you had breastfed. That question doesn't make any sense if you aren't bottle feeding her. And, yeah, who knows why that other lady asked what kind of milk you had. I had someone here ask me the other day if Dylan took a bottle well. She was very surprised when I told her he has never had one.


Ohhhh gotcha. Makes sense. No, I wasn't feeding at all, we were talking about sickness, and how Tenley pretty much never gets sick, and she asked. If was twofold, you know? On one hand I was like "Awesome! She realizes that breastmilk has more than just nutrition." On the other hand, I was like... Why do you assume I've stopped breastfeeding her? She's only 6 months old! I did make sure to nurse her shortly after that though.


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Oh, I thought you had said something about things being hard or crazy or something in the beginning with Arianna.


I think you might be talking about me complaining recently. I was having a pretty tough time with ALL the kiddo's but *especially* A. Although I think it might have been a bunch of things all together. 
I started taking probiotics to help with my digestion problems which were just compounding, and I think I was detoxing. I didn't really realize until I started feeling better how bad it was! Totally worth it though.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeninejessica*
> 
> We took Tenley to the Horse Races last night (it's very much a family thing, I grew up there pretty much, and my parents own a couple that are currently racing). She loved it, and loved being in the barn and reaching out and petting the horses. Anyways, obviously there were lots of new people we met. I had pumped a bottle the night before, as I said, so I brought it with us, and tried to give it to her while we were there (she's been refusing it, I think I mentioned that?). So I'm sitting in the tack room, cradling her and trying to feed her the bottle, and one of the family friends comes over and asks "What kind of milk is that in the bottle?" I laughed and told her it was very watery breastmilk (wondering if maybe she was curious about the color?) but honestly I was like WHA? Huh? What kind of question is that? I can't tell if she was trying to ask if I was feeding formula or breastmilk, or if she assumed it was formula and wanted to know what kind (she has 4 grandchildren and another due in a few months) or... I don't know. It was the weirdest thing I've been asked about breastfeeding!
> 
> Although also weird, was at a playdate with some non-crunchy people the other day, and was asked "Did you breastfeed her?" I honestly looked down at her again with a furrowed brow like "How old does she look? Does she look like the question should be "did you" not "are you"? Weird, especially because the question came from someone who did breastfeed and was asking in context of its amazing immunological properties. I just said "yes, still going!" But again.. ummm weird?


When I am engorged - my breastmilk is very watery and then gets thicker as it empties. It is a possibility she though you were giving her watered down formula?!? LOL

If she stops taking the bottle completely, let me know. I have a few suggestions that might help.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> I love hearing about babies (well, love is a strong word) who naturally sleep thru. I mean it makes me envious but I also like hearing it b/c I know deep down it's possible and that sleep training isn't necessary.
> 
> ...


Yes, she is amazing in the sleep department with (obviously) no help from me! Only A has slept through the night at this young of an age (and I actually mean like 10-12 hours, not 5 or 6) but all my kids have put themselves to sleep from about 7 or 8 months at the latest with NO crying.

Ugh - sleep training, I just really don't get it. With my first two I knew nothing about the label *AP* it is just called COMMON MOMMA SENSE!









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> O/T : Is anyone who has gotten ppaf charting? I just popped open my FF again and blah. It's boring and I really am not feeling CTA right now. I'm not sure if I'm going to jump right in to temping or what. Going to use condoms anyhow so it's not that huge of a deal.
> 
> ...and it wouldn't be the worst thing ever to have an oops but don't tell anyone I said that!!


Honestly - I had to go on BC pills







My cycles got so bad that I couldn't function at all when I was bleeding. And even for weeks before I was a hormonal mess. Add to it the fact that they are sometimes 70 day cycles and sometimes 26 and I just couldn't deal anymore!!!!!!

I know one day I will have to get to the bottom of the problem, but I just can't do it right now.


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeninejessica*
> 
> I've been doing the "Ow!" and holding her hand, but then she freaks out and starts frantically trying to get it out of my control. I finally let go, she waits a few seconds and then starts up again. It's like it's a -need- to her, and distresses her if I won't let her. Odd child.


This is how Dylan was(is). He would totally freak if I tried to hold his hands or move them off and away from me. He would scream and it was awful! Covering as much skin as possible helps some but he would fight to get his hands under my clothes. At night I would put my arm/hand over my chest so he couldn't get to it. It was uncomfortable and I still couldn't relax and sleep but at least I wasn't getting hurt.

A nursing necklace might help. I did get one and it seemed to help but I would take it off to sleep and forget to put it back on the next day most of the time. He does still pinch me but, like Carrie said, he's getting that it hurts and stops when I say, "Ow!" or move his hands away without getting too upset anymore.

Ah, ok, annie. That must have been it.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Ooooh! I forgot about the nursing necklaces! I had seen them a few weeks ago, and remembered that I wanted to buy one... and then promptly forgot. Anyone know of a good website? I'm going to check, but haven't seen them locally before.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeninejessica*
> 
> Ooooh! I forgot about the nursing necklaces! I had seen them a few weeks ago, and remembered that I wanted to buy one... and then promptly forgot. Anyone know of a good website? I'm going to check, but haven't seen them locally before.


I love etsy for that type of thing!!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Yeah, I got mine from Etsy. There are tons on there. I got this one: https://www.etsy.com/transaction/72803799.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

These are really pretty too! Not etsy, but still.

http://www.mommynecklaces.com/

Anyone want to post stats? Finn like I said had his 9 mo wbv and here is what his measurements are:

Finn at birth : 9 lbs, 21" ? head (mw didn't do it)

6 months: 21 lbs, 28.5" long! His head is 17.25".

9 mo visit: 25 lb 4 oz, 31" long (!!!), 18" head

I can and can't believe he grew so much since 6 months! What a bruiser he is!!

He's really thinning out tho -- his legs are losing the chub. I'm going to miss his thighs!!!


----------



## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeninejessica*
> 
> It's really no more training than them being in the diaper though- you hear/smell/feel them go in their diaper and are then required to change it right? The only difference is that you're putting in the work before they pee/poop instead of cleaning it up after. And same as T cues me to nurse, she's starting to sign for potty a bit too.


Yeah for me, it's really about ME being trained, not DD. Although I will say that it will be awesome if her familiarity with the potty will carry over in to her toddler stage because changing toddler and preschool poop dipes are GROSS! I mean I'll do it if I have to but I'd much prefer to be able to just put DD on the potty and let her do her thing. Even if she's still wearing dipes to catch pee. Although she spent most of the past couple of days diaper-free and no accidents so maybe she's more conditioned than I realized? She's been waking up dry or mostly dry from naps and waiting to pee until I put her on the toilet.









Happy belated birthday K!!! 5 years old, man what a big boy!

Baby_Cakes, I'm loosely charting, just CM and AF right now. I found my therm this morning so I need to get a new battery for it. DD has started sleeping from about 3 AM until 7-8 AM w/out waking really so I could start temping. We'll see. DH would probably try to have himself committed to an insane asylum if we had an oops but I would be ok with it.


----------



## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> These are really pretty too! Not etsy, but still.
> 
> ...


What a big boy!

Ava's stats:

Birth: 7 lbs 5 oz 19"

9 month visit: 14 lbs 9 oz 25"


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

OMG! Ava is such a bitty thing and Finn is a bruiser!

I'll have to wait til I get home and can look things up for Dylan, but ...

at birth: 8 lbs. 12 oz., probably around 20-21" long

10 months: 20 lbs. and at least 28" long

We should be heading home tomorrow.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

We're kind of in the middle.

Birth: 8lb8oz and 22 inches long

6 Months: 16lbs and about 27" long.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

oooh! Stats and the perfect day - Norah is 8 months old today!

so: Birth - 7 lbs 12 oz - 20.5 inches

6 months - 16 lbs 12 oz 27 inches

8 months - 17 lbs 15 oz, 27.5 inches.

She is pulling up to stand, officially crawling, sitting herself up, and trying to walk behind things with wheels. Babbles, kind of STTN (she might if I let her - but I bring her to bed when I go, so as not to disturb Gabe whenever she might wake up)

so big!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Happy 8 months baby girl!!! she's getting so big and doing so much!!!

Such fun.

I didn't realize how much bigger Finn is than the other babies. Ha! No wonder my arm and back kill me. LOL!!

I started temping. Booorrrrinnnngggg.









Going to run to Kohls today for some tshirts for the kids and sneakers.


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

I don't take my babies to checkup's usually (no vax = kinda pointless) but A was:

birth: 5lbs 14.5 ounces (38w2d) 19 inches

9 months: 14lbs 12 ounces 25 inches

Now at 14 months she is about 17.4 pounds according to my scale (which seems to be pretty accurate) and I have no idea about the length.

My kids are kinda smallish - but I don't mind







Although, I think I would mind more if they LOOKED skinny (no offense to any kids that do - just personal preference). Even though mine are small, they are very proportional. They still have bubble butts and thunder thighs


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

OMG - I keep forgetting!!! Happy B-day to K! I srsly can't believe he is 5! I had no idea. How old is E?

Happy 8 months to Norah


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Annie - no check up's here either; but I do have a baby scale and soft tape measure, and keep track myself, since I think it's worthwhile to do.

Happy Birthday K!

Norah is finally napping . . . and I am trying to power through some work. ugh.

Carrie, excititn stuff! I am on CD 38, and counting. Last cycle was 53 days, so we will see how long this one goes. I keep having rolling dates in my head, that if I don't get AF by, I will test. It worked last cycle, and I got AF before I thought I should POAS. should buy some dollar tree tests to keep on hand, or IC. With such stupid cycles, avoiding or using condoms when I *think* I'm fertile isn't entirely fool proof.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

We're home! I know Ryan made a big effort cleaning up but for the first time in my life I feel like scrubbing everything from top to bottom.









OMG, annie! A was tiny! And, hey! My kids are skinny. What are you trying to say?







Poor Kellen. I bought him some size 4T shorts for this summer and he has to hold them when he runs because they fall down. Ethan has actually been starting to fill out lately. His butt is getting rounder. So cut. He's 8.5, by the way.

Who does and does not have their cycle back? Regular or wacky? Still nothing here but I have been having worse cramps the last week or so.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Aww little Kellen! Nora is skinny and wears a 4T, tho it depends on the brand. skirts usually have to be 3T and some shorts that are 2T fit her fine.
And she fits in Finns clothes!

I'm just over AF obv so no idea if anything is wacky. I'll keep you posted.

I've had such a day!! Don't tell Chris, but I got all the way home from kohls and realized I had left my wallet in the cart in the parking lot. I threw Finn back into the car and flew back...called the store on the way which I never do while driving...got there and lo and behold the cart was still where I left it, and my wallet inside. Someone was watching out for me, seriously!! It had been at least 30 min and in the middle of the day, it's busy over there. I'm lucky. What a pain that would have been!!!

I need to get more sleep, I'm going nuts. Sooooo scatter brained and distracted. It's catching up to me!

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Glad you made it home safely! That can't be a fun drive. I'm supposed to ride up to Columbia MD w/my mom on Friday w/Ava and I'm not looking forward to it. We haven't done a long car ride with her in months so who knows how she will do. And there's always the possibility of getting stuck on the Beltway and that just makes me want to scream!

I have my cycle back, have had it back since 6 weeks PP. I'm pretty regular, 25-29 day cycle w/EWCM between CD 9-15 for the most part. I need to start temping again.

People always comment on how tiny Ava is and it kind of makes me upset. I always tell myself that they are just making conversation and she is "small" but it still makes me feel defensive inside like I want to retort back "well let's cut your chest open a couple of times and see how you do growing!" but most people don't even know about her CHD so that's not why they are saying it. I think I'm also sensitive to it because the question about Noonan Syndrome is still out there and I'm always concerned that she's stopped growing. But I have to keep getting the next size clothes out so that must mean something right?


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> People always comment on how tiny Ava is and it kind of makes me upset. I always tell myself that they are just making conversation and she is "small" but it still makes me feel defensive inside like I want to retort back "well let's cut your chest open a couple of times and see how you do growing!" but most people don't even know about her CHD so that's not why they are saying it. I think I'm also sensitive to it because the question about Noonan Syndrome is still out there and I'm always concerned that she's stopped growing. But I have to keep getting the next size clothes out so that must mean something right?


It did cross my mind that that might bother you. Really, what I was commenting on was the two extremes, Ava on one end and Finn on the other. I can understand the protectiveness about her being small because my boys are so small as kids. But look at annie's little A. She's just about the same size, isn't she?

Ugh, the beltway! I learned to drive on that. 66 is worse, though. I thought I'd get on 66E to the beltway to 95S since I left at 11. 66E was a parking lot so I took 50 to 123.

Dylan was pretty good in the car. He slept most of the way. When he was awake in the middle of the drive he was having fun blowing raspberries. So cute! He did cry for the last hour. There was no point in me stopping because he was just tired of being in the car. Ethan was pretty good at entertaining him some.

Carrie ~ So you can picture how small Kellen is. I was actually thinking the other day that it would be fun to see him with Norah because Norah is probably bigger/taller.

Official stats for Dylan

Birth: 8 lbs., 12 oz. and 21 inches long

6 months: 18.3 lbs. and 27 inches long

9 months: 20 lbs. and 28.25 inches long

10 months: 20 lbs. still

Annie ~ He may be bigger but he was born bigger. He's gaining slowly, which concerns me periodically until I see how he's developing quickly in other areas. My point is that actual size doesn't matter. It's continued growth and development that's important.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Those Dylan's stats? I am confused.

Annie- Ava's mom - it's hard to not be defensive. I was with Gabe, bc he was always on the small end weight wise. I love having a chunk, though it makes clothes buying unpredictable. Ava is growing! That's great! You have so much stuff you need to worry about, I am sure, I hope her growth really isn't one of them.

I am so tired. Ugh. Our first long car ride wi be to easyernNCover the 4th. I sure hope it goes ok.

I have my cycle back, such as it is. I wish it was regular.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Thanks ladies. I know intellectually she's growing, her pedi isn't concerned and her cardiologists have never been concerned (they even told the nutritionist to back off because she wanted Ava taking in more and gaining more). They all like to point out that I'm not the jolly green giant so it's most likely that she would have been tiny regardless of any health issues. It's just that it seriously gets mentioned ALL.THE.FREAKING.TIME when we have her out. People say two things about Ava a)how cute she is and b)how tiny she is. I start wondering if she really looks that different from other babies, you know? But yeah, Annie's DD is pretty much the same size as Ava so I know she's fine. But man, can you imagine when we get the babies together in Sept? They are going to be giants next to Ava!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> They all like to point out that I'm not the jolly green giant so it's most likely that she would have been tiny regardless of any health issues.


Yep, I know how that goes. With me being only 5 feet and dh only 5'6" it's pretty much a given that our boys are going to be small.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> It's just that it seriously gets mentioned ALL.THE.FREAKING.TIME when we have her out. People say two things about Ava a)how cute she is and b)how tiny she is. I start wondering if she really looks that different from other babies, you know?


I would guess that her smallness contributes to her cuteness. I go all crazy over little babies because I have bigger babies. Little babies are so cute to me!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> But man, can you imagine when we get the babies together in Sept? They are going to be giants next to Ava!


It is going to be so fun seeing all the babies and kids together. They are so close in age and sort of graduated ages. Who's really good at taking photos and/or has a really good camera? Carrie? I saw you were getting into editing. We have to get a good shot of all of them (and all of us)!

Forgot to link this: http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/basics/story/2012-06-06/child-safety-seat-latch/55452346/1

My friend emailed it to me. Basically, it says not to use the LATCH system when the carseat + child is 65 lbs.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Oh yes, I'll have my camera!!! Im really starting to get into photo shop. We need a group picture. I can't wait to see all the babies together!!

Lauri, whatever Ava lacks in size she makes up for and then some with her personality. She is so spunky!!
I think it goes both ways. Finn is obv big. People comment. He looks much older than he is bc of his size, and I wonder if people think im feeding him too much or something. We can't control what people think, all we can do is frame it positively.

Big or small, healthy is what really matters!! And our babies run the gamut of sizes, but are all thankfully and finally healthy!

Mw, lol about your house! Does it feel good to be home?

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> OMG, annie! A was tiny! And, hey! My kids are skinny. What are you trying to say?
> 
> ...


Was tiny?!? More like IS tiny







I should have clarified, my BABIES are little but still chunky. M especially is soooo skinny. She is starting to get some butt and belly to her, but she is still pretty tiny. At 3 1/2 she can still easily fit into 2T and lots of things have to be tightened or they fall down









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> I've had such a day!! Don't tell Chris, but I got all the way home from kohls and realized I had left my wallet in the cart in the parking lot. I threw Finn back into the car and flew back...called the store on the way which I never do while driving...got there and lo and behold the cart was still where I left it, and my wallet inside. Someone was watching out for me, seriously!! It had been at least 30 min and in the middle of the day, it's busy over there. I'm lucky. What a pain that would have been!!!
> I need to get more sleep, I'm going nuts. Sooooo scatter brained and distracted. It's catching up to me!


This is soooo something I would do! I literally have to check re/check that I have everything about a hundred times because I am so scatter brained! I saw your post on FB about being scatter brained and that you were going to message your friend and I went and checked here to see if you said anything. I'm such a nose ball









Quote:



> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> Thanks ladies. I know intellectually she's growing, her pedi isn't concerned and her cardiologists have never been concerned (they even told the nutritionist to back off because she wanted Ava taking in more and gaining more). They all like to point out that I'm not the jolly green giant so it's most likely that she would have been tiny regardless of any health issues. It's just that it seriously gets mentioned ALL.THE.FREAKING.TIME when we have her out. People say two things about Ava a)how cute she is and b)how tiny she is. I start wondering if she really looks that different from other babies, you know? But yeah, Annie's DD is pretty much the same size as Ava so I know she's fine. But man, can you imagine when we get the babies together in Sept? They are going to be giants next to Ava!










momma! From your stats, it looks like A is about the same as....A (that's funny! I never realized we not only are both Annie, but we both have A and they are both tiny!!







) at 9 months. Even the same length. I don't remember if it bothered me that M (who was also LITERALLY the same size as A. J was slightly bigger) was ALWAYS called tiny or not since it was so long ago, but of course I don't have your medical worries either.

If it makes you feel any better, both M and A were called tiny ALL.THE.FREAKING.TIME too. Now I just beat everyone to the punch. "How old is she?" "Oh, she's 14 months, she's tiny"







"Yes, she is soooo small!"

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Oh yes, I'll have my camera!!! Im really starting to get into photo shop. We need a group picture. I can't wait to see all the babies together!!
> Lauri, whatever Ava lacks in size she makes up for and then some with her personality. She is so spunky!!


I am still jealous you all are getting together







We will have to photoshop me and JJ in! ha ha ha

YES - Ava is freaking hilarious. I can't believe some of the things she does that you post of FB. She totally cracks me up!

On another funny note - I told Arianna to go "get her shoes" while I was trying to do M's hair because she was trying to pull the hair ties. She totally got her shoes!!!! I couldn't believe it - they grow up so fast









MW - My kids slow their growth waaaaaay down. They have all been born at about 6 pounds, at 4 months they are all at least 14 pounds, and then at 14 months A is still only 17 pounds! LOL

I am betting since you have big babies but small kids, their weight would pretty much have to come to a standstill too. It seems they still get longer/taller though.

Glad you made it home safe


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> People always comment on how tiny Ava is and it kind of makes me upset. I always tell myself that they are just making conversation and she is "small" but it still makes me feel defensive inside like I want to retort back "well let's cut your chest open a couple of times and see how you do growing!" but most people don't even know about her CHD so that's not why they are saying it. I think I'm also sensitive to it because the question about Noonan Syndrome is still out there and I'm always concerned that she's stopped growing. But I have to keep getting the next size clothes out so that must mean something right?


*hugs* A woman in my DDC has been dealing with tongue tie and latch issues and just so so much since her daughter's birth, and I know she gets similar comments a lot and it really gets to her. People don't think before they speak, and that includes us too, and others who mean well. I totally understand what MW is saying- I love tiny babies, and always kind of thought I would have one, so since T isn't (don't get me wrong, she is not huge by any means, but she's not tiny and delicate either), I find it that much more appealing and cute when I see others. So I'm sure I've blurted out stuff to people about how teeny and cute their baby is, without thinking there might be underlying sensitivity.

I had other things I meant to respond to, but my brain just fizzled out... lol


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Well, you guys got to me. Finn made the face this morning like he was about to poo, and I thought, well, shoot. Now I have to try. I took off his dipe and put him on the potty and ...he pooped in the potty! One less poop dipe to wash!!










It was easy. And if I don't think of it as training myself (since I already am trained, I recognize the face he makes and the sounds) then it's no big deal. I don't feel like I'm doing something ridiculous. Just don't tell Chris! Ha!

Awful awful night last night. Ugh.

Lauri, I'm so sorry to hear about your friends baby who passed. My heart was heavy all night. Prayers and gentle thoughts her way.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

yes, I love the picture of her, she is such a doll! and it grieves me to hear of her passing -

I had one little one and one chunky baby  so I have seen both and gotten both comments. though some people obviously don't know what to say about babies, because I got a comment from a nursery worker (who clearly hasn't been around babies much) asking of Norah was born premature??? WTF? I think Norah is big for her age (No Finn or Dylan to be sure, but still) and other people say she is big (If ya'll could get a good shot at her thighs . . .) but like Gabe, she doesn't have much belly. Which is a good thing.

Dude, I am sooo tired. I feel like I am drowning in work, I have no idea how to get caught up - I will be doing overtime this weekend, and I hope that helps.

I took the time off to come in September, and I really hope I can. Partly depends on DH, if HE can come, because I am not doing that road trip by myself. It's about 7 hours, according to mapquest (kind of surprised, since Jacksonsville is 5-6). If you factor in baby and pee breaks, and food . . . It will be more like 8-9 hours I am sure. IOW, I am looking forward to it, but dreading it all at the same time!

*yawn*


----------



## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Well, you guys got to me. Finn made the face this morning like he was about to poo, and I thought, well, shoot. Now I have to try. I took off his dipe and put him on the potty and ...he pooped in the potty! One less poop dipe to wash!!
> 
> ...


Yay Potty!! It's funny, amoung "normal" people, Rob is actually more vocal about the EC than I am! He tells family and such about it, whereas I'm trying to keep a little more quiet to avoid the whole people thinking I'm bat$hit crazy thing... lol.

But yes, worth it not to have to change even that one early morning poop diaper! The days I miss it because I wait too long etc, I am a sad sad mama.

 Yes Lauri, pass along condolences. I sat staring at her beautiful photo for a while last night. It makes you hug your babies closer. I can't imagine.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> I had one little one and one chunky baby  so I have seen both and gotten both comments. though some people obviously don't know what to say about babies, because I got a comment from a nursery worker (who clearly hasn't been around babies much) asking of Norah was born premature??? WTF? I think Norah is big for her age (No Finn or Dylan to be sure, but still) and other people say she is big (If ya'll could get a good shot at her thighs . . .) but like Gabe, she doesn't have much belly. Which is a good thing.
> 
> Dude, I am sooo tired. I feel like I am drowning in work, I have no idea how to get caught up - I will be doing overtime this weekend, and I hope that helps.


I know! It's funny to see people's perceptions. Tenley is technically on the high end of the growth curve, but people always tell me she's teeny tiny. I'm like ummm no? But same thing- small tummy, big thighs!!

*hugs* I respect you mamas who work, so so much. I can barely keep myself sane around here, let alone have to get ready, leave the house and be productive!

So... Tenley had an amazing night, and I had a horrible one *grumbles* I started keeping track the other day of wakeups to see if it was as bad as I felt, or if I was exaggerating. For instance, this was the other night:

Sleep: 7:30 up and down every 20 minutes until almost 9. woke up, nursed. back to sleep 9:20

Sleep: 9:20-10:30, up and nurse

Sleep: 10:45-11:10 Nurse.

Sleep:11:25-1:00

Sleep: 1:20-3:40 <<<Longest and only real stretch

Sleep: 3:50-4:25

Sleep: 4:30-5:45 At which point we brought her into bed and she pretty much nursed for the next two hours straight. Every time I pulled her off the breast she would start shrieking at me. I finally gave up and just woke up for the day.

Last night:

7:10- Nursed her and cuddled, went down at 7:27

Sleep: 7:27-7:45 nurse

Sleep: 8:02-10:00 Nurse

Sleep: 10:12-11:25 Nurse and wide awake. Talking coo-ing, looking around.

I brought her out to the living room and she sat with us happy for about half an hour and then fell asleep on my lap. We brought her into bed with us. I didn't write down times, but she only woke three times to feed in between 12-7am. Still not great, but longer stretches than the other night! And it was a deep sleep too, not the usual constant rooting all night she does when she's in bed with us.

But, Rob had his cast changed yesterday and they moved the position of his thumb, so he was in a lot of pain. And he kept waking me up all. night. long. like every 30 minutes or less, to tell me he couldn't sleep, and it hurt so bad, and he needed it to stop. I get it, ok? It sucks, and it hurts, and I am so so sorry that it does, but there's nothing I can do to fix it, and waking me up just makes me angry at you because you know I don't sleep much! Sigh!


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeninejessica*
> And he kept waking me up all. night. long. like every 30 minutes or less, to tell me he couldn't sleep, and it hurt so bad, and he needed it to stop. I get it, ok? It sucks, and it hurts, and I am so so sorry that it does, but there's nothing I can do to fix it, and waking me up just makes me angry at you because you know I don't sleep much! Sigh!


I would KILL Chris if he did that. KILL. My goodness, men are such babies. Worse than babies!

I sliced my finger almost OFF when Finn was 2 months old, and I still had to suck it up, sleep with him on me, nurse, change diapers. I think I maybe cried/complained once and did not wake anyone up to do so!

Maybe I'll do sleep logs. Maybe that'll make me feel better about things. It can't make me feel any worse!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

OMG! I would be like, go sleep on the couch. or anywhere but near me and the baby! tell him call the doc for stronger pills or something.

Sleep logs . . . ugh. Our night was like . .

8 pm - nurse down to sleep . .

around 9, attempt to transfer to crib. no luck. nurse back down to sleep around 9:30

9:45 - DH gets a phone call, takes in the bedroom where Norah is freaking sleeping, and of course, she wakes up. I take her out in the living room, nurse and cuddle more, and she's back in bed a little after 10.

10:30 - I go lay down with DS to sleep, and that doesn't take long, maybe 30 ish minutes? walk out of the room at 11ish

11ish - Norah wakes again. bloody hell. so I say screw it, I'm going to bed with the baby. I was going have a margarita.

4ish - nice long stretch I think, (she may have needed to pop on a boob; I've lost the paci somewhere in the bed, so she nurses off an on between 4-5:30

5:30 I go find the paci, get up for the day and go to work.

Joyful, isn't it.

Norah is about 50%tile for weight and 75-85% for height. Gabe (looking back) was 10% for weight and the the upper end for height, yet, the funny thing is, his first summer I KNOW he wore 3-6 month stuff, and some 6-12. Norah is quite firmly in 12-18 month things, and 18-24 isn't too big. *sigh* I am afraid she will be in 24 months/2T stuff this winter. and she will have just turned 1. oy.

What do yall do for fun on rainy days?

ETA: world's worst fortune cookie - seriously we got this the other night:


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

But then her weight should level out. Finn has been in 18-24 mo stuff for awhile, and now with crawling *some* 12 mo stuff fits. So. Even if she does grow into that size, she should stay there for awhile! Long enough to give the clothes some use!

Our night...

830 - nurse down, put him to bed

9 - put Nora to bed

1030 - went up to lay down

nurse a few times b/w 11 - 3 am

3am WIDE AWAKE. Rocking, shushing, patting, nursing - nothing works. About to scream and cry myself. Switched beds with Chris so I could have the comfy bed.

4am finally he's out. Lay with him. Pass out til 645.

Nurse. He sleeps a bit longer but not me. I think I dozed for 10 min.

7:15 up for the day.

He's whiny and clingy. I think it's teeth.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Yeah, teeth suck! We've been using the teething tablets, and I feel like they're working, but more on the level of 'keeping her sane' and not 'totally taking her pain away', kwim? I just want her to cut one already!

It was so hard with DH, because I know it hurts. Hell he had his hand cut open in three places, and then the surgeon fished around, found the tendon, and threaded it back up his wrist to his thumb, and then stitched it together. Then they put a cast on, which held his thumb immobilized. Then yesterday, they took the cast off, moved the thumb around a bunch with no pain meds, and then re-braced it in a different, more severe position. So yes, absolutely believe he's in pain. But- he also has a low pain tolerance, throw in old anxiety issues, and he turns into a ball of joy with the slightest bit of pain. So he was literally waking me up on the verge of breakdown telling me I have to get up, he doesn't know what to do. Well... I don't either, and you're not listneing to my suggestions. And- if I get out of bed, the baby will wake up, and then I'll have freaking out husband AND shrieky, tired baby on my hands... So... no, I'm not all that eager to get out of bed! Especially since this is the first 'good' sleep I've gotten in a long time. *stomps foots*

He's been good this past week he's been home. .He's not supposed to be using his hand at all, so he's limited in usefullness, but he's still been picking Ten up (with help) and getting down on the floor and playing with her, and at bedtime I get them set up in the bed and they read books for a while and that. So he's trying... but really, even after being home for the week, I don't think he fully comprehends what it's like to be "on" 24 hours a day, for six months and counting. We got into a mini tiff when he was home because it was 11am or so, and I was on the computer while Ten was playing on the floor, and he kept nudging me to get going for the day, and what was I going to do, and ok the day is wasting away, etc etc etc. I finally was like "I know it's hard for you, because this is your "time off" and you want to be productive. But this is my life, 24 hours a day, seven days a week. I don't get breaks, I don't get days off. I know stuff needs to get done, and it will get done, but I know what works and what doesn't, and you can't come in here and try to guilt me for sitting down!

I see that this week of being home all the time has opened his eyes a bit (ie I think he thought I was totally exaggerating about her short sporadic naps, and how much she needs constant entertainment, and now he sees I wasn't really exaggerating at all), but even seeing it, I think he still discounts how much effort it really is. Even things like if we're sitting here on the couch, both on our computers, and she starts fussing while we're playing, he'll look at me to go entertain her. So I will, we'll play, then I'll go clean the kitchen, come back, play for a minute or two, do a load of laundry, come back, change her, go finish the kitchen, come back and sit down at my computer, and he'll sigh and go "Can you watch her for a bit?" While I'm sitting there going WHAT? I've --been-- watching her for the past hour?! AND doing housework! But in his mind, he honestly thinks that because he was sitting 4 feet away from her and smiling at her every now and then, that he was the one 'watching her'. Boys! LOL

PS I forgot about that with your hand Carrie! Yet another way in which we are freaking rockstars!

I have a whole POT of iced coffee in the fridge. I wish I could share with you ladies! It sounds like we all need it this morning!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Yeah, that's Chris too. They really don't get it!

I have a whole pot of hot coffee! Tho -- I need to eat something, I'm getting the shakes from all the caffeine!

And um, ouch. Yeah that sounds really fraking painful. Is he on anything now drug wise?? Did the repair work -- will he be able to pursue his career?

Rain here today...kinda mad about it b/c a walk would really be nice, but no dice. Thought about walking around the mall but that feels like too much work.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

I'm actually doing good on the food front! I've been very dizzy and lightheaded the past few days and can't figure out why (every time I stand up I feel like I'm going to black out...) so I'm trying to be very diligent about eating. This morning I had a cookie, a banana, and a breakfast sandwich. And I've already had about 20oz of water. Haven't started into the coffee yet!

He's just on T3's and antibiotics. He initially was on naproxen as well, but it's done. He has some function of it (though still very very painful to move) but won't know if he can regain full mobility and function for up to about 12 weeks or more :S He's in the cast for probably that long, and starting 'rehab' in about 4.

We're the opposite- it's finally sunny today after several days of yucky yucky weather. I wanted to head up to the store to get some groceries, but the things I need will be too big for the stroller basket. We might just do a walk around the neighborhood, and I think a dip in the hot tub.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Oh, and the sleep logs can work both ways. They either point out that "no, it's not as bad as it feels, so maybe I just need to restructure my thinking", or you can look at them and go "Oh. Okay yeah, I really am waking up every 45 minutes. No wonder I'm soo tired." So at least you feel justified. It can also help to find patterns I think. I started noticing that at the first part of the night, if she fusses and I nurse her, she's way more likely to sleep a real stretch when she goes back down- whereas if she wakes and I just cuddle her, she'll continue doing the up every 20-30 minutes thing for 2 hours. So, easy enough, right? I nurse her to sleep, come back in next time she wakes up and nurse her again. Problem solved (Well, you know... sometimes solved! lol)


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

JJ, yeah, I know. I try not to think about sleep, because then I realize how little I'm functioning on. And that makes me sad  and very grateful for coffee.

I wish they made something that tasted like diet coke, but with real sugar. I can't handle regular coke, but I would love something without the artificial sweeteners. and I count Splenda as artificial, bc I don't like the taste of it. I want caffeine!

Norah has been fussy and clingy today for DH. Hope she's happier this evening.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Is it the taste of regular soda you don't like or the calories? I looked into that Pepsi Next...it's full of gross chemicals and sodium.

I've been drinking iced green tea. I MISS MY DIET COKE though. It's been what, a week or so since I gave up artificial sweeteners? I guess about that long. I really miss an ice cold diet coke. It's TOUGH. But I'm plowing thru! I do feel better. And I'm down 2 lbs but I don't know if that's incidental since I've been trying hard to stick to my ww points as well. I've also been drinking tons of seltzer but there obv no caffeine in that. I just like it for the fizz.

It's also good in a margarita. I use about half the margarita mix I normally would, and use lemon lime seltzer. Yum.

Finn is a mess today! He's trying so hard to climb. I shut the door to upstairs and he was standing at it banging on the door! So cute and sad. I let him practice for a bit, but he's not quite there yet.

He went down for nap just before 3. I anticipate having to nurse him at least once during this nap but he really needs a good stretch of sleep! Nora and I are watching Cars 2.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Jj ~ Those aren't pain meds. He needs some percocet or vicodin!

Kat ~ Sweet tea with stevia? I like Truvia brand the best. Or if you need to get used to it, Domino's makes a stevia and sugar mix that isn't bad. Splenda is an artificial sweetener, chlorinated sugar.

Cleaning, cleaning, cleaning today. Ryan did not put the trash out the entire time I was gone. He said he didn't know when trash day was. He never bothered to ask. There is so much that the collectors wouldn't pick it all up today. They won't pick up anything that's not in one of their large blue cans so left all the bags on the curb and put a notice on my door.







Ryan put those bags in the large can so it's full again and I have nowhere to put the trash that's in the house.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> Ryan did not put the trash out the entire time I was gone. He said he didn't know when trash day was.












Yikes! That's a lot of trash! At that point just put it at the curb, it'll get picked up sooner or later!!

JJ - wow yes, he needs SOMETHING! That's serious surgery and moving it around like that?? My goodness. Get that boy something strong!

Oh - I bought Pure Via. There was a coupon for $1 off right on the box. I like it in my coffee. It's better than the maple syrup was, and less expensive.

I'm shopping online for more diapers. I don't know what to buy, but I need more. I might buy a few of those go green dipes b/c they were pretty inexpensive. I just need to supplement my stash a bit, I'm so tired of doing wash every other day.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Jj ~ Those aren't pain meds. He needs some percocet or vicodin!


It's very much on the down low, but he was on both in high school and developed an insane addiction to them. After having been through that once, we'd both rather him deal with the pain than attempt to take "just one" again, kwim? It's too much of a risk.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Oh - I bought Pure Via. There was a coupon for $1 off right on the box. I like it in my coffee. It's better than the maple syrup was, and less expensive.


Agave nectar is supposed to be really good too. I have it, but haven't used enough of it to tell a difference.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Ah, yes good then that he stays away.

Agave is nice in tea! Not so much in coffee. I like it light and sweet. Plus...agave vs maple syrup, maple syrup is far less processed and lower on the glycemic index, too.

He woke up after an hour and 15, nursed him back down. I hope he sleeps a bit longer!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Oh, yeah, JJ, then not a good idea. That stinks that he has to suffer.

I tried Agave because dh used it. Blech!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Regular coke is too sweet. I don't like sweet tea







we have a soda stream, their diet cola is sPlenda sweetened. Not bad.

That is alot of trash! Why didn't he just ask when trash day was?

Jj, that sucks!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

In that case have you tried Hansens sodas or Knudsen spritzers?

http://www.hansens.com/us/en/products/soda/hansens-soda/


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

What, Kat?! You are from SC and you don't like sweet tea?!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Ahh. I'll keep that in mind about the agave. I've only used a tiny bit of it in iced tea (but I also used honey...) and once in cookies (but also used sugar... lol) It's just too much work to convert how much I need to use instead of something else in a recipe!


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Man, you guys were chatty today! Plus I've been busy at work so just able to get on now.

My heart mama friend's baby passing has really hit me hard. Her little girl had a much more severe defect than Ava but still. You just never know. She's been on life support (ECMO) for the past week and it was touch and go. Right now, the mama is just happy that she isn't suffering anymore. I start crying every time I think about it.

I don't mind when you guys comment on how tiny Ava is because compared to yours, she is! And you're right, bigger babies get the attention, just reverse. My sister's oldest was around 25 lbs at her first birthday and people would always comment on how big she was.

Shoot, now I'm forgetting stuff! Oh, Baby_Cakes, you probably did drop those lbs from stopping diet coke. I lost another 5 lbs after I stopped drinking diet coke. So crazy since it's supposed to be a "diet" drink.

MW, I'd probably make Ryan load up the extra bags and take them to the dump! But I'm a mean stepmama!









Sleep and Ava, not happening right now. She's finally figured out how to sit up from laying down so she does it. All night long. And her naps are like 45 minutes. I'm dying over here! And she must be going through a huge growth spurt because she drank 13 oz while I was at work yesterday.







She LOVES music. I've started playing either the They Might Be Giants kids radio station or Raffi radio station on Pandora and she grins and rocks and claps along. It's the cutest thing!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> MW, I'd probably make Ryan load up the extra bags and take them to the dump! But I'm a mean stepmama!


Yeah, I wish but I can't _make_ him do anything anymore.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

MW: I am in SC, but not from here, LOL!

I need sleep . . .


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> Sleep and Ava, not happening right now. She's finally figured out how to sit up from laying down so she does it. All night long. And her naps are like 45 minutes. I'm dying over here! And she must be going through a huge growth spurt because she drank 13 oz while I was at work yesterday.
> 
> ...










We can be in this motor skill sleep deprived hell together then!!! It has to be something similar here too. Ok, so he just started crawling, so that's old news, but now he's pulling up. He can't figure out how to get down from being up. And he NEEDS to learn how to do stairs. He'll wake up from nap, I'll set him down, and he makes a beeline for the stairs, stands at the bottom and tries so hard!!! It's so sad. Like I said if the gate is up or the door is shut, banging and yelling will commence until he can get to them to practice.

So. All night long when he nurses (maybe Ava does this too with the bottle) he kicks me, pulls his legs up agaisnt me and PUSHES, and it's obnoxious. For awhile I was able to shove the blankets b/w us but that's no longer working. Sigh.

Last night was marginally better. When he woke, I sat up with him rather than just flipping over to do the other boob, and latched him on from sitting. He seemed to settle a teensy bit better. I just need to get thru this!! It'll pass. I just hope it does soon.

Oh - and the music thing - so cute! Finn has been rocking out to music lately, too. It's ADORABLE!

Oh - and we always sing his name to the tune of Old MacDonald (F-I-N-N-L-E-Y....finnley finnley DAX!) and lately when we do the first part, the Finnley Finnley part, he'll shout "DA!" after, like he's saying Dax! Love it!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Oh, that's right, Kat. You've said that before. I get confused because your whole family is in SC, too. Still, who doesn't love sweet tea?!

Carrie ~ Dylan does the same thing with the kicking and pushing at night while nursing. He kicks all the covers of, too, which really annoys me because I am always cold.

We've been sleeping ok regardless, though. I hope that keeps up.

Dylan loves music, too. He stands and looks like he's dancing. So cute! He also really likes it when we sing to him. That's one thing that will settle him in bed, singing. He lays and listens. As soon as we stop he starts moving again.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> So. All night long when he nurses (maybe Ava does this too with the bottle) he kicks me, pulls his legs up agaisnt me and PUSHES, and it's obnoxious. For awhile I was able to shove the blankets b/w us but that's no longer working. Sigh.
> 
> Last night was marginally better. When he woke, I sat up with him rather than just flipping over to do the other boob, and latched him on from sitting. He seemed to settle a teensy bit better. I just need to get thru this!! It'll pass. I just hope it does soon.


Ugh! Ten has started being very active during the day when she's nursing, but at least the nighttimes are peaceful! Much love to you mama!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Norah wants to be in downward dog when nursing in bed most of the time. This is not comfortable. Nursing while sitting is slightly better.

Last night was horrible. worst night of sleep since she's been born. IDK if it's teeth, or the mobility thing, or what but she didn't go to sleep until midnight, and usually she's 8-9pm bedtime, then up at 2 like it's party time, didn't go back to sleep until 4, and I had to be up an go to work at 6. SUCKS.

She crawls, she pulls up to stand, working on cruising, can walk behind a push toy for a few steps, she can get down from standing, kind of on purpose, it's ridiculous - it's a gross motor skill explosion! And mama is so tired! and she has no teeth . . .

I will drink sweet tea if it's all there is, but I'd rather have lemonade  or water.

I will get that new to me crib side carred this week. Needs to happen!

Love baby dancing! (as in babies dancing) not that I don't like BD, but we are NOT BD'ing. 2 of the girls in my MDC DDC are already pregnant again. I can not imagine. and these things happen in 3's, so I am waiting to see who is next. NOT ME. I hope not.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Plus at feedings even at night, he is needing both boobs. Think he's making up for being busy during the day? Is there a growth spurt at 10 months?

I managed to clean up, vacuum, mop, and vacuum the fans. The weather today is ugh again. But at least it isn't pouring. Maybe we will get out for a bit before school, but it doesn't look like it...

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Hmm so far there is only one in my Ddc...she's due in Dec! There are plenty trying. I can't imagine either.

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

The two in my DDC just found out this week.

it's gorgeous and hot outside. I want to be in the pool, or the lake, or ocean - something! - but no. I am at work. ugh. Need some plans this weekend . . . .


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Dylan does that downward dog nursing position, sometimes upside down as well, if I lay on my back with him. Thank goodness he doesn't do it at night while we are trying to sleep, maybe because I lay on my side then.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

She does it while I'm side lying. It's not cool. And also, she's taken to clamping down and pulling. At which point I cut her off and offer the paci - I think she does it when she just wants to suck but doesn't want milk anymore, as it's always at the end of session. Doesn't make it feel any better though!

And amen on the "this too shall pass"

DH and the kids slept until 10ish. lucky. (they all need it, I just wish I could have joined them!)


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Ava has issues when she takes her bottle but it's more wrapped up in the fact that since her surgery, she doesn't like me to hold her while she's taking her bottle. At first I thought it hurt her but she lets other people do it. It's a trust issue with her. We're working on it but she prefers to lay in her bed and wrap her legs around my arm and hold my hands while she drinks her bottle. She has let me the past couple of days hold her while she takes her bottle so we're getting better.

One of the MDC July DDC FB group mamas just announced she's preggo today! I'd love to have another squishy coming but not this soon!

Have to take Ava in to the cardiologist tomorrow. I don't know if I told you guys but I had to take her to her pediatrician last weekend because she was breathing fast and they did a nebulizer treatment. Well her breathing is still rapid most of the time and she gets sweaty when she drinks her bottle. I emailed her cardiac nurse yesterday and asked her to touch base with the cardiologist to see if he wanted to see her sooner than her regular clinic appt in two weeks. He didn't think her breathing is heart related so he said he was ok waiting. My mama "spidey sense" was still screaming at me throughout the day so I called her pedi and the nurse said I should bring her in. We saw the same doc this morning that saw her last weekend and he said that she needed to go to cardiology since she's still breathing fast. So we're heading over there tomorrow. I don't have a good feeling about this.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> My mama "spidey sense" was still screaming at me throughout the day so I called her pedi and the nurse said I should bring her in. We saw the same doc this morning that saw her last weekend and he said that she needed to go to cardiology since she's still breathing fast. So we're heading over there tomorrow. I don't have a good feeling about this.


Oh please keep us posted. Do you have any sense of what it could be?







I'll keep you guys in my thoughts.

I just lay down and tried to nap for over an hour with Finn but my stupid brain wouldn't shut down. Redic considering how tired I am!!! I almost fell asleep driving nora to school. I think sleep deprivation/driving is up there with driving intoxicated. It's dangerous. I felt like I was out of my body a bit.

anyhow.

Weather is turning around and I'm supposed to go to the beach tomorrow with the kids and a mama friend. Should be fun/crazy.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Oh please keep us posted. Do you have any sense of what it could be?
> 
> ...


Well every time I've talked to cardiology about it, they don't think it's heart related but her pedi said that since she isn't sick anymore (she had a slight fever and congestion when they did the breathing treatment) and she's still breathing fast and sweating when she drinks her bottle, they want cardio to look at her. Worst case, there could be an issue with the repair that requires additional surgery. Her body is showing signs that her heart is having to work harder than it should but we don't know why yet. So they will do an ECHO to look at her heart and probably a chest xray.

I heard something recently that driving tired is equivalent to having a 0.05 blood alcohol level. I believe it!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> Have to take Ava in to the cardiologist tomorrow. I don't know if I told you guys but I had to take her to her pediatrician last weekend because she was breathing fast and they did a nebulizer treatment. Well her breathing is still rapid most of the time and she gets sweaty when she drinks her bottle. I emailed her cardiac nurse yesterday and asked her to touch base with the cardiologist to see if he wanted to see her sooner than her regular clinic appt in two weeks. He didn't think her breathing is heart related so he said he was ok waiting. My mama "spidey sense" was still screaming at me throughout the day so I called her pedi and the nurse said I should bring her in. We saw the same doc this morning that saw her last weekend and he said that she needed to go to cardiology since she's still breathing fast. So we're heading over there tomorrow. I don't have a good feeling about this.


I hope it turns out to be nothing. Like Carrie said, please KUP.

Yes, on the driving while so tired. Maybe skip taking Nora to school if you are that tired. I know it's then really hard to have her home but better that than the possible alternative.

Dylan has been wanting to eat more than nurse today.







He woke from a nap around 2:30. I tried to nurse him then but he wasn't interested. We went to my doctor and the grocery store. Came home and put away all the groceries and he still doesn't really want to nurse, just eat. I hope it's just a passing phase.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Yes, on the driving while so tired. Maybe skip taking Nora to school if you are that tired. I know it's then really hard to have her home but better that than the possible alternative.


Or get Chris to take her if he can. She really enjoys going...I mean, I know. If it's unsafe obv I shouldn't be driving. I just hate to disappoint her as well.

I had some wine and hopefully Nora will go right to sleep tonight so I can try to take advantage of his first long stretch of sleep. I hope things improve soon. I'm really starting to think about nightweaning...it's not something I look fwd to b/c I know it means rough nights, and changes the dynamic of things. But man. I'm really really fried.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Oh Carrie, I'm sorry. I get the sleep thing. He nurses at every wakeup right now, right? I was wondering about the possibility of Chris taking him for one of the wakeups.

I was at a LLL meeting tonight, and there were half a dozen moms of two year olds who all said their babies still woke up at least 3-4 times a night. I wanted to cry! lol

So Ten is "on" solids in the sense that we're offering, but she's not really ingesting much of anything yet, but it all of a sudden has me very in disbelief that like... that's it. She technically from this point forward is on a downsweep of how much milk she will need from me. The hardest part-- keeping her nourished exclusively on breastmilk for six months, is passed. That feels so surreal. I kind of feel like throwing a "We did it!" party. Our journey wasn't really hard by any means, but it still feels so so nice to be able to feel like that's it, it's "smooth sailing" from here on out. Obviously I know it won't necessarily be, and there will be obstacles still, but six months hell yeah! lol

I've always told myself that I will fight tooth and nail to get to a year, and do whatever it takes, and that after a year, I'm just taking it day by day and whatever works for us. The last few months though with her nursing -so much- the thought of being done started seeming so appealing. Now in hindsight, realizing wow, it's been 6 months of exclusive breastmilk, no formula-- I feel so much more non-chalant about keeping going, knowing that "the bulk of it" is done. I still want to get to two years, and that's what I say when people ask, but I feel so much less... I don't know.... pressure isn't the right word, anxiety maybe? It seems like I can get there no big deal now, but on the other hand, I'm also very satisfied that we've made it this far and we can definitely do a year.

Anyways, the whole spiel was in relation to MW mentioning Dylan wanting to eat so much. It is so so crazy how fast they grow up, and stop "needing us" so much.

And yes, please, keep us updated on Ava! Hopefully it's nothing. I'll keep her in my prayers though.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Carrie ~ I thought about Chris taking her but wasn't sure if he'd be around. I say, definitely, if he's there and you are that tired, let him do it. Maybe you could even get a rest/nap, not have to wake Finn for her to go.

JJ ~ Yay for 6 months of EBF!







From here on out it will begin to be less demanding. When I was at my mom's and had to go out I didn't have to worry about being gone for more than 2 hours because I knew she could feed him whatever. Even with sleep, he likes to nurse to sleep when he's with me but can fall asleep other ways when he's with others. One time when dh and I were out, maybe at the bank already refinancing the truck loan (I'll tell you all about that later.), when we got home my mom said that Dylan had fallen asleep in his high chair. She didn't even notice. Kellen told her. I think she was making food for everyone.







Alas, when she tried to put him down in bed he woke up but he went right back to sleep when I got home and nursed him.

On that note, he's been asleep now since 8:30. I know I should go to bed but I'm enjoying being able to stay up and watch some X-Files.

Ethan was like those 2yos, waking 3-4 times a night. It wasn't too bad then. There's something different when an older baby/toddler wakes. I guess because they can understand more it's not so hard getting them back to sleep (maybe).

Did you all see the pic I posted of Ryan on FB? No one commented. I thought I'd get a lot of shocked comments.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I didn't see any pics of Ryan...hmmmm....


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> Did you all see the pic I posted of Ryan on FB? No one commented. I thought I'd get a lot of shocked comments.


I even went and checked your timeline. Nuffin.

AnnieA - Keep us updated please. I will definitely say some prayers that it is nothing major.

JJ - yay for six months of exclusive BFing! whoop whoop!

Baby_Cakes (I now know where you got your name thanks to FB! LOL) If you are so tired you can't even drive, but then can't fall asleep for a quick nap, that is nuts! Srsly - get some sleep or something! Do you suffer from insomnia? I can only think of one or two times where I was pretty drowsy driving. No fun 

I can't think of anything else right now.......


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

^^^ When my chronic fatigue flared up, that's what it was like. I would be so tired that literally I felt like I couldn't move, but I would lay in bed for hours unable to fall asleep. Then once I fell asleep, I could easily sleep for 12 hours straight, and wake up still tired. It was a horrible horrible feeling.

And I didn't see the Ryan picture either. Glitch. FB has been screwy lately.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I didn't see a Ryan picture. hmm.

JJ: 6 months is a big deal! and Norah LOVES food. LOVES. But she doesn't take in very much either, TBH. And I am really ok with that. The next big hurdle is teeth, and it IS a hurdle. Not the bottoms so much, but the ones on top . . . I remember having to work with Gabe as he learned to readjust his latch.

I can't leave Norah without milk. and I still get engorged and leak. *shrug* it doesn't happen often, but does if I forget to nurse from a side for a while, or go too long between feedings.

Poor baby is working on her first tooth. I think. she has a low grade fever at any rate and seems mostly miserable. No other signs of illness, so I think it has to be teeth.

I am counting down the months until I can hang up the pump. I can't tell you how much I'm looking forward to that! 4 months! woot! I can't imagine not nursing her . . . but I do look forward to it all the same. Bittersweet.

enough about us.

Annie - so glad you are going with your gut. I hope everything turns out to be ok. KUP as you can.

MW - we refinanced my car right away. the credit union at the time was kind of slow on pre-approvals and what not, so we did the dealership financing, then refi'd through NFCU; much better rates. I have only a payment and a half left on it! I hope refi on the truch went ok.

Carrie - I have too often driven that exhausted. no real choice, as we don't have public transit, and well, I need to work. It's rough though. I hope you are able to get some sleep. Nap with Finn while Norah has quiet time with books or TV (we use the TV too much, but sometimes, it's a blessing)? I have started putting Gabe to bed, because that consists of just laying with him until he dozes off, and I get about an extra hour or so that way.

Coffee. need more!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Yay JJ!! I'm super proud of you!!

The girls are right, too, that night wakings with a 2,3 year old is just different. A simple, "Let me tuck you back in" or "Here's your puppy" would work for Nora. And if it worked for her, I'm sure it'll work for Ten!

I think small goals are excellent. Aim for that 1 year mark!!! You never know what can happen or change, or stay the same. I'm aiming for age 2. I mama led weaned Nora at that age, so it feels like I want to at least get there. I see pictures of her though... and man she looks so young!! It almost makes me sad we didn't continue. So I look at Finnley and I'm like...hmm. Maybe I won't be in such a rush to hurry things along once he's 2. I just don't know how I'm going to feel. So. I'm aiming for 2 and seeing where the wind blows at that time.

annie - funny story is I didn't get my name from the bakery! I came up with it (kind of). It's what my dad used to call me! It was in a song he used to sing. LOL. Then the vegan bakery came out (or at least I heard about it) and it was like a really neat coincidence. My name everywhere else in computer land is Bliss so me choosing babycakes for here was different and unlike me. But it works!

good luck today Lauri and Ava!!!

AFM - finn nursed like over 10 times last night. I don't know what to do. I mean, yes, I know this is a short time, but i'm frantically trying to figure out WHAT I can do in the meantime to get more sleep. For both of us! He's still taking two naps...do you think maybe his 2nd nap is the culprit? He goes down easy though, and will sleep 2 hours in that first stretch...but then he was up every hour. To the minute!!! All night long. Ugh. Thoughts?


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

What's going on with him? more teeth? working on more milestones? I feel like it's a phase, honestly (but it's not my baby). If it makes you feel better, I have an IRL friend of a 4 month old whose baby NEVER sleeps more than an hour stretch. Usually it's just 15 minutes. She's a happy girl, though. Docs guess reflux, but meds have had no effect, so she stopped them. And she has a very active 3 year old son.

ack, can't remember any more -


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I don't think there's anything wrong with him. Probably teeth, crawling/climbing, clingy 10 month old stuff. Normal baby behavior. But in the meantime, I either need to find a way to nap during the day to make up for what I'm losing, or encourage him to sleep better. Either way, I don't care. I just need to really change SOMETHING.

I was reading the Jay Gordon nightweaning stuff and man...I'm just really not ready. Maybe I'll feel differently in 3-6 months. But for right now I just feel like it's too much for him. He's still so young.

I thought for a second about putting a crib together upstairs but that really won't help me since he won't let me put him down asleep (or awake). I need to be nursing him and sneak away. So. The only thing is I could try to overhaul EVERYTHING and try to do the whole having him fall asleep on his own. To me that feels too much like ferberizing and I just don't want to even go there. You know?? I like cosleeping. I like seeing his face. I like cuddling. I know the benefits for him as well. So. I just feel conflicted about that.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Falling asleep on his own - maybe some babies do. Norah did for a week. Then she stopped. BOOOO.

I am putting up a crib to sidecar. bought a used IKEA one. So I can maybe have my own space a bit, and I feel better leaving her to sleep on her own. *sigh* I know I am not ready to nightwean. I didn't feel comfortable doing it with Gabe until he was STTN, and then it kind of happened on its own. FWIW, it was STTN in his crib. He never STTN in bed with us (but I was more focused on transitioning him out than I am with Norah).


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Annie ~ Thinking of you and Ava.

Carrie ~ Is something interfering with his nursing during the day? Maybe being so active and/or eating solids so that he's not nursing much and making up for it at night? You could try nursing him more often during the day, although I know by this age, if they aren't interested at the time, there's nothing you can do to get them to nurse.

I don't like the idea of nightweaning before a year. I'm with Kat, too, that I don't like it until baby/toddler is STTN, but then it's a non-issue, obviously.

I'm assuming I'll nurse Dylan for at least 3 years since that's how long I nursed Kellen and Ethan was very close. No TTC anymore so no reason at all for me to wean.

I talked with dh again about putting either a sidecarred crib or a twin mattress next to our bed. For some reason, he's ok with a crib but not the twin even though that would give anyone more room on the bed and wouldn't cost us anything.







We never made it to IKEA so I think it will be a twin.

I'll have to check on that pic. I thought it was pretty funny and was bummed when no one commented. One person did see it but she only liked it. Maybe you all didn't recognize that it was Ryan? It was the photo of the young guy holding a newborn baby in the hospital.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

My brains pretty fried (umm I typed friends...) these days, but Carrie, have you read No Cry Sleep Solution? It does have some good advice in there. Take some, leave some.

I *think* Tenley only woke up twice last night from 11pm-6am. I was so tired I may have slept through it though... but I think... lol


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *MarineWife* 

Carrie ~ Is something interfering with his nursing during the day? Maybe being so active and/or eating solids so that he's not nursing much and making up for it at night? You could try nursing him more often during the day, although I know by this age, if they aren't interested at the time, there's nothing you can do to get them to nurse.


> I don't like the idea of nightweaning before a year. I'm with Kat, too, that I don't like it until baby/toddler is STTN, but then it's a non-issue, obviously.


I wondered about that, but I kept trying to tank Ten up during the day, and it wasn't making a difference. Then ironically, we were at a LLL meeting last night, so between 7-915 I nursed her like 4 times. She fell asleep in the car for 20 minutes, woke up when we got home, I changed her, pottied her, put her back into bed, and she fell asleep on her own. Woke up at 11, and I honestly don't think I nursed her... and then I -believe- she slept through until almost 3am. So she went in theory, 6 hours without nursing! Then slept 3-5 nursed again, and then up at 6 and into our bed while she nursed/slept from 6-730. I wonder if she finally got enough during the time we were at LLL that it kept her full enough to sleep longer...

It's funny, while I would love love love Ten to sleep more at night, the idea of nightweaning just seems so.... weird to me. I think if I could get to 2-3 wakeups a night, then I would be content with night-nursing until 2. But yeah, if it was nights like you posted Carrie, when 10 wakeups and all of them requiring nursing, then I totally get the appeal of trying to nightwean. You could try middle ground though, and try to cut back, without ceasing altogether.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Heart function looks excellent. Will update more when I get to work.


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> Heart function looks excellent. Will update more when I get to work.


YAY!!!! I've been stalking this thread all day! Soooooo happy


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

thank goodness, Annie!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Hooray Lauri! So relived for you!

Yes, exactly. I can deal with 2-3 wakeups. I probably could for a long time. But I do need to find a middle ground to get there.

I think he nurses plenty during the day. If/when I offer and he isn't interested, he's such a stinker. He'll latch, smile, and then BITE. Not like a hard bite, but a playful nip -- but enough that it hurts!! So. Down he goes. Those teeth are sharp!! You're right you can't force a baby to nurse!!

But I will definitely try b/c I can't hurt. Unless he bites me. Then there may be war!

I don't forsee any ttc plans in the next few years. Lately I'm serious when I think about adoption...though I'm just not sure anymore at all. DH is adamantly against that idea...

We had fun at the beach! It felt very much like a day off. The drive isn't bad. It's about 45 min, but it's a straight drive, so it doesn't feel that long.

Oh - one of my ddc-mates (lol funny word) posted her dipes on cloth diaper swap. She's been posting so many and I was holding back with so much restraint -- such good deals. But today, I jumped on one -- I scored 6 -- SIX -- BumGenius 4.0 dipes for $75! They are basically new! And 4 of them are Artist series!! I'm STOKED!! 6 more diapers = one more day b/w wash!!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Well, WTH? Why can't I sell my practically new FBs with inserts for $12 each? I thought they would go fast.

Dylan chomps down on me, too, sometimes, mainly when he's done nursing and just sort of hanging out on there. Ouch! And, yep, when he does that he's done.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Ugh, today was a day. I was so worked up over this appointment, I was almost sick to my stomach. I was terrified that they were going to send us right over to the hospital to be admitted. Ava did SUCH a good job, even though it was right at her nap time. I talked to her a couple of times today about what we were going to be doing and it really seemed like she understood. The first time this morning, I put her on my lap and said "We need to go see Dr. Dan this afternoon so he can listen to your heart. And we're going to go in the dark room so they can look at pictures of your heart, ok?" And I swear she said "O.K." back to me. She said it in this kind of scared voice, it was so sweet but heartbreaking at the same time. We talked about it some more during lunch and then when when we were walking from the parking garage I told her again what we were doing. She started crying a bit when we started the ECHO but I think that was mostly because I had to hold her arms down because she was trying to knock the wand out of the tech's hand. I'm so glad DH was with me this time because he was able to hold her bottle for her while I held her arms still. I was so relieved when her doctor said her heart was great. But we still need to figure out why she's breathing rapidly.

Baby_Cakes, I can't remember, have you tried a pacifier?


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

It's amazing how much babies understand. I can tell when I say something to Dylan and he understands it.

It's probably not the same but that breathing sounds just like what Dylan had when he had that virus a few months back when I took him to the ER. That was when I went through all that crap with the ER doc and the abx and Dylan not being vaxed. I had to use a nebulizer several times a day for several days. They gave me meds to put in it but I didn't use them and he got better without them. MovingMomma had the same thing happen with her dd but maybe not as bad. I don't know the details. I do remember her posting it on FB just a few weeks later. So maybe Ava got whatever that was that was going around.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> Ugh, today was a day. I was so worked up over this appointment, I was almost sick to my stomach. I was terrified that they were going to send us right over to the hospital to be admitted. Ava did SUCH a good job, even though it was right at her nap time. I talked to her a couple of times today about what we were going to be doing and it really seemed like she understood. The first time this morning, I put her on my lap and said "We need to go see Dr. Dan this afternoon so he can listen to your heart. And we're going to go in the dark room so they can look at pictures of your heart, ok?" And I swear she said "O.K." back to me. She said it in this kind of scared voice, it was so sweet but heartbreaking at the same time. We talked about it some more during lunch and then when when we were walking from the parking garage I told her again what we were doing. She started crying a bit when we started the ECHO but I think that was mostly because I had to hold her arms down because she was trying to knock the wand out of the tech's hand. I'm so glad DH was with me this time because he was able to hold her bottle for her while I held her arms still. I was so relieved when her doctor said her heart was great. But we still need to figure out why she's breathing rapidly.
> 
> Baby_Cakes, I can't remember, have you tried a pacifier?


So glad it isn't her heart!! Keeping you in my thoughts while you keep trying to figure it out.

We haven't tried a paci in a long time...many months. But I'll try anything. I dug one out and washed it. Here goes nothing!

Out of nowhere Nora spiked a fever. 103.6. Motrin and Tylenol are keeping it down, and she says no pain. No sniffles, no obvious illness. Kinda worried.

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Carrie ~ That's what happened with Kellen when we were at my mom's house. His temp was way up like that. I didn't give him anything because he didn't want it. DH was worried that I wasn't giving Kellen anything but I read on the Dr. Sears website that anything under 107 was not necessarily a big deal. It's more important to look at your child's behavior than the number on the thermometer. I hope she feels better soon and look out for eye infections!


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

It's very likely that it was/is some sort of viral thing, especially since she was snuffly when it first cropped up but we didn't want to just treat the symptoms without first checking to see if there was an underlying cause. Rapid breathing and sweating while eating are also indicators of heart issues. Her pedi though said that he thought the breathing would have cleared up since she isn't showing signs of being sick now. Her cardiologist said it's possible that she aspirated some of her milk since she likes to drink laying down but they would be able to see that on the chest film.

Baby_Cakes, Ava doesn't love her paci but if she's done drinking but not quite asleep, she likes to suck on it to finish getting to sleep. But she only does that for me. She won't let anyone else give her a paci.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Dylan didn't really have any other signs of illness other than the breathing. Hopefully, that will resolve itself.

It's so interesting to me how particular Ava is. I haven't had any experience with other people feeding or otherwise really attending to my babies to see that.

There are so many other things I want to tell you all about but when I finally am able to get on here to post I can't remember them. Maybe they'll come to again in pieces and I'll post as they come.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> It's so interesting to me how particular Ava is. I haven't had any experience with other people feeding or otherwise really attending to my babies to see that.


My mom used to run a daycare center and the infants were always like that. It's like they know what's "tolerated" and what isn't from one adult to another. Ava does things completely different between me, DH, her babysitter and my mom. Naps for instance, she will not go down in a proper sense for anyone other than me. She makes everyone else hold her until she passes out. She will only let me give her a bath and throws a unholy fit if anyone else tries. She lays in the bed with DH and gradually falls asleep but if the paci isn't working with me, I have to walk her around until she gets more drowsy. She lets her babysitter give her the bottle while she sits in her lap but would never let me do that. Babies have a lot of emotional intelligence!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Nora was very much like that as an infant!! Very particular and very...opinionated!

She would let grandma hold her and give her a bottle, then fall asleep. For me, never. I had to walk/rock. Grandma could always put her down for nap. I couldn't I had to hold her the whole time. Crazy.

Finn is different only bc Chris has never put him to sleep. Never even tried.

Chris and I just had a bit of a hard conversation...about more kids. He admitted he just really dislikes the baby stage. He's angry a lot, and frustrated, and tired of sharing me. But he adores Nora at the age she's at. I can totally respect that. It's hard for me too! Tho...I.think in general moms just have a different feeling about the infant stage. We are too connected.
I hesitantly asked him, like once Finn is 3, can you really honestly be like...done??? And he just got annoyed with me and didn't want to talk about it anyone. Sucks. I just think we are on different pages.

But he really isn't open to adopting.

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Nora was very much like that as an infant!! Very particular and very...opinionated!
> She would let grandma hold her and give her a bottle, then fall asleep. For me, never. I had to walk/rock. Grandma could always put her down for nap. I couldn't I had to hold her the whole time. Crazy.
> ...


Hugs mama...I know how that feels to be on different pages. My DH's response when I broached the idea of another? "We'd have to have multiple full-time nannies."...yeah that's realistic!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Carrie - that is tough! But maybe he just has a hard time imagining it. Sucks being on different pages.

DH loves the baby stage. the newborn, all you have to do is cuddle and pass to mama for feeding stage. I think he is finding toddlerhood very challenging.

I told ya'll here or on FB that Gabe has gone straight to calling me Mom? no mama or mommy or whatever. At first I was sad. but now, it just warms my heart. I answer, yes, yes I am. I am so happy to be his mom. even when he drives me to tears.

Norah and sidecar - she's getting used to it. The mattress is far firmer than the bed (which is good for her) so she def can tell the difference. she sleeps on the very edge, which is fine, but I do think she sleeps better there, than in bed with us.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Thanks guys. I know. I mean, at least he was honest with me. I did ask for him to be honest. Maybe the reason he shut down was really b/c right now he can't see past where we are.








Maybe he's just as conflicted as I am? Who knows? We have time.

Ok so. NEWS! I got SLEEP last night!! Not tons, but MORE!







Finn slept from 11:30-230!!! I couldn't believe it and was actually excited to continue the night. I dozed off after nursing him and Nora woke up screaming at about 330. Her fever was back and of course she only wanted mommy. So. Chris layed with Finn and I stayed with Nora. I was nervous how this would go. I got Nora's fever back down and cuddled next to her, and we both passed out. UNTIL 6!! I slept for 3 hours straight!!!

Chris got up with Finn at 6:30 and said, "Wow. He just doesn't know how to sleep on his own."







I said welcome to my friggin' world!! LOL! So. He said it was not bad. He only had to rock him for about 5 minutes once, and the rest of the time he just had to kind of roll him over and shush him. I'm ok with this! Chris said he'd be more than willing to try this for a few nights (especially since it's the weekend) to see if we can kind of ease him off all the nursing at night! It's not total nightweaning, and I'll talk to him more about when to get me (like if he won't rock to sleep or is inconsolable, etc) but this might be middle ground!! I'm so 'cited!!!









Next week Chris is home, but the week after he is going to Boston. So. We shall see.

Oh, and Nora is still asleep but she feels cool to the touch. Poor girlie.

Kat - mom/mama -- Nora goes back and forth. I love both. "Mom" always makes her sound so much older, so it is bittersweet!! I hear you. That said, when she started calling Chris "Dad" instead of Daddy, it was wayyy hard for him.

MW - How many FB dipes do you have? What colors? I haven't seen your posts on cloth diaper swap. I might be willing to take a few! LMK.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Hooray for sleep! I know I nursed Norah a couple times during the night, but I like the sidecar, bc I can move her away and kind of get her used to just needing some touch to fall back asleep, and not plastered to me sort of touch, like usual.

I am glad Chris is willing to help out! that's great! DH does Norah once I get up to work until it's clear she's up for good. It usually gets me 2-3 hours of work time, kid free.

And yes, you have time, nothing needs to be decided today (unless of course you have an oops) -


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Carrie ~







I agree that you still have time for Chris to come around. It's probably really hard for him to imagine having another baby while he's still in the midst of this one, especially if he doesn't particularly like the baby stage. Do you give him specific things to do with Finn? Maybe he doesn't really know what to do with a baby and needs some ideas. Sean had no experience with babies when we had Ethan. He didn't know what to do since I did all the feeding and we didn't put him to sleep on a schedule. I gave him the job of bathing Ethan and he really enjoyed it.

I didn't list my dipes at that place. Is that the FB group? I have a hard time following things on FB. I listed them at Diaperswappers and a local yardsale website. Here's what I have. They are mediums and I have a ton of microfiber inserts.










Annie ~ It's so funny how guys go to extremes. Sean would say something like that. It's almost like it's a threat. "If we do what you want, we'll have to do/have this big thing and you won't like it." Whatever.









Ethan calls me, "Mommy". He says it in such a sweet way. Sometimes he says, "Mom", but not as much.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Ooh. Those are cute. Would they fit a chunky 25 almost 26 lb baby tho? Medium goes what, to 30 lbs? It could still be awhile before he gets there, right? I'm so bad.









Chris has really gotten off easy this time around since I'm a sahm, and since Finn was relatively easy as a baby. There was no colic so we never had to do shifts. He's helped out tons with Nora. So...maybe he isn't sure what to do. I do give him jobs at the tme, but he doesn't have any set responsibilities. I am the default for everything, unless I ask him to take care of something. I'm not sure what I'd want him to do. Maybe he can start doing baths. That would be a nice break for me.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Yes, the medium go from 15-30 lbs., 6-36 months. They are really big to me. They look huge on Dylan at 20 lbs. I only tried one on him once, though, so I can't really say how well they fit.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Ok thanks. That's good to know. My friend offered to sell me her large fuzzibunz but looking at the description and factoring in what you told me, I think they will be too big. Listen seriously if nobody snatches them up from you in the next few weeks, lmk. I'll make you a reasonable offer!









Chris slept with Finn again last night. He said he only had to rock him a bit (like less than 5 min) twice and that was it. I slept with Nora again b/c she called for me at around 2. So. I slept from 12 til 2, and then like 230-6!!! Then I moved to the couch for a little more space, and slept til 730. My goodness. So THIS is what rest feels like!? And it's not even that MUCH!! I really, really hope that if we keep this up for a week or so, Finn starts sleeping a little better and doesn't wake to nurse as often. This morning when Chris brought him to me, he nursed one one side, played a bit, then crawled back to me for the other side, had a banana and was so happy. It was nice. It felt good. I wouldn't have planned to do things this way this early, but you know, when you resent something, you really have to change it!

Finn is 10 months old today! It's bittersweet. On one hand I can't believe he's almost 1. On the other, I'm so excited for the toddler stage!!

Nora seems better today. I might attempt a short walk with her to see how she handles it. She has no symptoms and her fever has broken on its own, so. I want to try to get some food into her. She had a yogurt and I think if I get her a bagel she'll eat most of it.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Baby_Cakes, glad you've gotten some more sleep! It really does make a world of difference, even a few hours!

DD did so great on the day trip to MD on Friday. She woke up around 5:15 AM, my mom picked us up at 6:30 AM and she fell asleep about an hour in to the trip and slept almost the rest of the way. Which was great because then she was well-rested for the party. She had a blast with the big kids. We hung out at my sister's in the afternoon and then left to come back after I gave DD her bath and put her PJs on. She fell asleep about 45 mins in to the trip and slept the rest of the way home. She fussed some but no all-out screaming like last time.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Yay for better car rides!!

Anyone feel like doing some clicking? http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1355517/motherings-fathers-day-contest I'm post #11 (first page), and actually within the top five right now I think.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeninejessica*
> 
> Yay for better car rides!!
> 
> Anyone feel like doing some clicking? http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1355517/motherings-fathers-day-contest I'm post #11 (first page), and actually within the top five right now I think.


Done! That's one of my favorite pics of the two of them!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeninejessica*
> 
> Yay for better car rides!!
> 
> Anyone feel like doing some clicking? http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1355517/motherings-fathers-day-contest I'm post #11 (first page), and actually within the top five right now I think.


Cool! That _is_ a beautiful photo.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Yeah I posted and didn't really think anything of it. I didn't want to post it on FB because obviously I don't want family/other friends using my username to stalk me! So I figured there was no way I'd keep in the running, but wanted to post anyways. I think being on the first page helped my vote count!

And yes, that is one of my favorite photos of him and Ten. It was such a random moment, so peaceful. I've got one of him rocking her to sleep too, that is just gorgeous.

Speaking of pictures-- I finally went through all my photos and have officially printed ALL my birth photos, and everything up until May. I need to buy one more album but I've filled two so far. I'm SO glad to have this done! Next up is finding some time so I can take the birth photos and match them up to the (10 page !!) birth story, and then post it online somewhere.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Actually, while I'm thinking of it... If anyone has time, can you go to my blog http://thingsthat-shine.blogspot.ca/ and tell me if you can look around and find/gain access to a page titled Birth Story of THB?

I've been trying to figure out somewhere to post the birth story that I can keep password protected or otherwise need the direct link to. I -think- I figured it out, but want to make sure!


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I started working on DD's slideshow for her first birthday party. Man, was it emotional to watch her change right before my eyes! Can't wait to get it finished!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Oh I can only imagine! I'm emotional already, and we're only halfway there, and haven't had half the year you have!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I searched and couldn't find a page entitled that, JJ.

I've been meaning to ask everyone what sites they use to blog. I set up a blog at Xanga (I think) several years ago. My plan was to blog about our lives as a sort of unschooling record keeping in case I ever needed it. I rarely wrote in it then and haven't even looked at it in I don't know how long. Maybe a different/better site would motivate me more?







Any suggestions?


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

I used opendiary.com from 14 until about 24, but don't really write there anymore. It was private in the sense that no one I knew IRL knew of it and i wrote very candidly. I made a lot of really good online friendly there, and it had a good community feel like mdc does. It was very cathartic, and I miss being able to write like that, but when I sit down now, I can't seem to get the words out like I used to.

I'm (edit: NOW, not not) at blogspot, which is much better for "public consumption", and I write for people I know, not personal things. I'm still kind of learning my way around it though.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

My blog would be private. I wouldn't want to publish it. Maybe someday it could be used by all of us to look back on our life and reminisce. It would mainly just be like a diary of our daily lives more for my own purposes of knowing all the different things the kids do. Sometimes with unschooling it seems like we do the same bunch of nothing day after day so it's nice to have something to look back on and say, "Oh, yeah, we did this and this and that."


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I use blogspot, because I don't care if it's public - nothing I've written isn't something I wouldn't have said here. But I know people that do use a password protected blog.

ok, you can make it private on blogger/blogspot (same thing) - http://support.google.com/blogger/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=42673

Great weekend, with the exception of my MIL. We went to visit and she decided to go up to her room and stay there. (she had foot surgery last week and was in some pain, which I get, but she didn't even say she was going, or tell the kids bye or anything) Had we known, we would've invited FIL to our house and not made the trip over. bah.

Sleep is better - having the crib sidecarred is such a help! gives me just a tad more space to stretch out and relax. *ah*

Carrie - hooray for all your sleep - sounds amazing.

Baby pictures - I cry looking through Gabe's. Norah . . .not as much, because she is still a baby, but I will one day! Need to organize some.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

JJ that is a beautiful picture! I voted!

As far as blogs go, I use blogspot but I'm so new at it really haven't figured much out. I'm sure there are security settings to make it unsearchable on google.

I think Finn only woke once or twice last night!







And I'm pretty sure there was a slight wakeup where I was able to just ssshhhh and pat him and he went back to sleep! I didn't need to get Chris or anything. Oh man I hope this keeps up.

Yesterday we went to my ILs for fathers day and Finn was so not interested in nursing. I didn't offer that much either, because he was so busy playing and being silly. I think he nursed at like 11 for nap, and then again at like 4. He ate snacks throughout the day and a HUGE dinner, and then right before we were about to eat fruit for dessert, I grabbed him and found a quiet corner to nurse him in. So -- maybe 3 times? I was so sad. I even mentioned it out loud and my MIL and Chris were like, he's getting older, he just doesn't need it as much. But *I* DO! It's so tough. It's not a typical day by any means but it sure makes me realize how things are changing.

I get so sad looking at Finn's nb photos! It's bittersweet and I cannot believe how tiny he was! And I just remember how happy we all were. I love the warm fuzzies I get looking though those pictures. Sigh.









Oh! My MIL/FIL offered to let us have Finn's birthday party at their house. I'm seriously considering taking them up on the offer. Their house so bigger, they have a patio, deck, pool and nice big yard. And a better kitchen for prepping food. There's practically no reason not to!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Kat--- ugh! Why are parents so frustrating like that? You'd think they would relish every moment they could spend with their grandkids, not hide out somewhere.

Carrie-- AMAZING!!! That type of sleep is like my dream goal right now. 2 wakeups a night? Heck, I think I could do that for years!!

Rob sat down and read some of no cry sleep solution with me last night, and we're going to start trying seriously to implement some stuff. I read it before, thought all the ideas were great, but then... was just too tired and distracted to really follow it. So we're starting with the environmental things, and then in a week or so, we're going to switch over to more of the 'help sleep' solutions. Right now, we're focusing on having a much much longer, consistent bedtime routine (right now ours is only about 15 minutes long), and also blacking out the room more, adding a fan, and cooling it down. We'll see if any of them make a difference! We've tried the white noise but it doesn't really seem to help, but I think the fan might be a different enough noise, plus is will keep the air in the room moving. And we've put up thicker fabric on the window already, but it doesn't cover the whole thing, and we really need to take it down and hem the edges and hang it properly.

Also Carrie, that sounds fantastic about the birthday! We're already talking about that here, and what's going to happen. We have a small house, plus it'll be November, so no outside... if the basement is finished, it should be fine, but I doubt it will be by then! And I really don't want to have it at a family member's house, because then they start getting all fiesty about their food restrictions (ie not allowed to bring a cake with gluten into the house, even if only T is eating it...) Also, I'd like to throw a big party with both sides at once, and get it over with, but they won't all fit.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

JJ: honestly, birthday parties have been for friends only for us for both of Gabe's birthdays so far. yeah, it's at my parents' house and they are here and help host. But even though ALL of DH's family is no more than 30-45 minute drive from us, they NEVER come to us. EVER. The most we get is DH's grandma comes to the hospital for the births. And she has parkinsons! (I say this to emphasize that she, of all people, makes the effort at important things, but no one else does. She also came to his 1st birthday).

November, in Canada . . . hmm. Can you all just meet at a restaurant? is it mostly grown ups? if kids are involved that changes things up.

DS's birthday is 11/20 - but we are in South Carolina and sometimes have beautiful weather. The first birthday was held nearly completely outside, with only food done inside. The second birthday it rained, so mostly inside, but it let up and we were able to do a little outside. Far less people came too. Oh well.

Our kids have as long a bedtime as it takes them to fall asleep. Sometimes it's 10 minutes, sometimes it's 2 hours. hard to predict. I hate that, but not so much that I feel like changing it. Both are so young too that I am sure whatever I do now, will need to be changed again soon, such is life.

Carrie - do it! I think it would be fun!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I'm all for doing parties at someone else's house as long as they don't try to control everything. The only thing I'd be worried about would be if they were really uptight or would get really upset if something in their house got messed up and then freak out at me about it.

I have used blackout curtains in my bedroom for years because I had such a hard time sleeping. I think it really helps with the kids, too. They woke up a lot earlier at my mom's house and a lot more morning sunlight came in through her curtains.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> JJ: honestly, birthday parties have been for friends only for us for both of Gabe's birthdays so far. yeah, it's at my parents' house and they are here and help host. But even though ALL of DH's family is no more than 30-45 minute drive from us, they NEVER come to us. EVER. The most we get is DH's grandma comes to the hospital for the births. And she has parkinsons! (I say this to emphasize that she, of all people, makes the effort at important things, but no one else does. She also came to his 1st birthday).
> 
> ...


I don't think we'll have many 'friends' at the party, it'll likely be almost all family but everyone will come. On my side, it's all adults, about 10 of them, but on DH's side, there's 7 adults and 6 kids between the ages 1.5 and 8. And they're loud. I think we're past the point of typical restaurant. However... there is a very chill cafe type restaurant I just started going to with our AP group, that I'm wondering if they could host it. It's a total hippy place, with lots of space, and couches and chairs, but a full menu and they even have toys in the place throughout. Hmmmm...

I just want a bit of a more structured bedtime routine so it helps to settle her down and remember that bedtime is coming, rather than *wham* go to sleep, out of nowhere, you know?


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Agreed about the uptightness/freaking out stuff. Luckily I don't think that's even an issue as far as my ILs are concerned. But it is definitely something to talk to them about beforehand, especially since I'm planning to invite people with kids and while we all do our best to watch our littles, they can easily break something or get into a flower bed you don't want them to!

JJ - yes, I hear you on the bedtime routine. Ours here is pretty straightforward. We dim all the lights and I begin to nurse Finn down while we watch a Blues Clues quietly. Mostly that's for Nora. For Finn, we probably started right around Ten's age, the 6 or so month mark, with getting him in his jammies, dimming the lights, putting away the toys (clean up, clean up....) and then nurse. Nora's bedtime routine as a little was so much more difficult b/c she wouldn't wind down. We did a bath in dim lights probably every night. No TV, no lights. I had to nurse her, and then stand and rock her (usually for 30 min to an hour) and then hope she'd stay asleep once I put her down. If not, rinse, repeat. It was exhausting!

I do have the NCSS book and some tips can really be helpful. Just keep in mind that while environment and routine do help encourage sleep, nothing can make your baby sleep. She has to do it on her own. Our job is to create the perfect environment so they understand sleep is expected -- doesn't mean it's going to work. I just don't want you to feel bad or like you aren't doing something right if you do all the tips/tricks and work yourself crazy trying to do something, and she still has trouble going down or staying asleep. Just know that you are a wonderful, loving, and smart mama. And that she WILL get there in time.

Ok - can I hijack for a temping/CTA question? My cycle is wacky, go figure! Still no sign of fertile cm and my temps are SO LOW. Is that normal?

Here is my chart...

What do you guys think? I know I'm missing some temps...just rough nights that didn't seem to matter anyway...


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Carrie ~ I don't know about the temps since you don't have anything to compare them to but the long periods without fertile CF while BFing is very normal. My cycles were inconsistent when they first came back before. With Kellen I had a PP bleed at about 6 months but then nothing for several months afterward. With Ethan I started having sort of regular PP bleeds with short cycles for 3 or 4 months before I actually Oed and then my cycles got less predictable.

I agree with Carrie on using the tips and tricks in NCSS. I can see how that book might be helpful if you need some ideas of things to try to help promote a sleeping environment but nothing is going to make a baby sleep until she's ready. Warm baths can help. Singing can help. Rocking or walking baby around can help. Nursing can help, obviously. With Dylan we have to have everything very dark and quiet for him to fall asleep at night most of the time. I find that strange since he'll fall asleep almost anywhere at any time with any amount of noise during the day. Kellen used to fall asleep at 9 O'clock almost every night so easily wherever he was. That was so amazing. I remember being shocked by that. Ethan would fall asleep early but he would wake often.

JJ ~ That's a lot of people for a restaurant. I can't imagine having that many people for a party. I think the most we've ever had was maybe 10 people total. Maybe you could reserve a banquet type room somewhere if that's what you want to do.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

JJ: that's a lot of people! the cafe sounds promising. I wonder if there is a time they are not normally open, or less busy, they could close it for you? IDK how much that would cost though.

I should work on a bed time routine . . . I am too lazy.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Carrie ~ I don't know about the temps since you don't have anything to compare them to but the long periods without fertile CF while BFing is very normal. My cycles were inconsistent when they first came back before. With Kellen I had a PP bleed at about 6 months but then nothing for several months afterward. With Ethan I started having sort of regular PP bleeds with short cycles for 3 or 4 months before I actually Oed and then my cycles got less predictable.


Good points!

I guess I am just comparing to the temps pre pregnancy. They were almost always in the 97s. Seeing 96s just makes me think something is off -- well, it is, if you consider I'm still within the first year postpartum and mostly nursing. It's not as tho I'm trying to conceive anyway, so I suppose it's nothing to be concerned about.

Kat - Why bother w/a bedtime routine if you don't need one?? If they go to bed easily then why bother?


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Well, depends on your definition of easily . . . Gabe will lay down with you at bedtime until he falls asleep. Sometimes he cries a bit, but he doesn't try to get out of bed, just fidgets. And sometimes you lay with him over an hour before he finally drifts off. Norah. man. she fights lately, fights HARD. last night I was ping pong boobing her, trying different positions, just letting her get some wriggles out . . . it took a long time. *sigh* I am hoping it's just a phase.

Carrie, I wouldn't be too worried about your temps either. I can't even remember to temp. *ugh*


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Baby_Cakes, are you "priming" your therm before turning it on? I would always hold my therm in my cheek for about 30 secs before turning it on to temp because I keep it so cold in our house. Once I started doing that, I got much more stable temps. But yeah, you are still nursing a lot so your hormones are probably all over the place. I would expect a bit of chart craziness.

Birthday party locations: we are having DD's at my mom's house. Our immediate family barely fits in our house so there's no way we could host a birthday party. If most of mine and DH's family shows up, that will be 35-40 people. My mom's house is great for parties and she'll help with the cooking. My only thing is that I want it to be low-key and not have my mom in the kitchen the whole time. At my baby shower, most people didn't even know my mom was there because she was in the kitchen the whole time.

Sleep...ugh, still bad here. I think Ava has started another "wonder week". Have you guys heard about that? I was just reading about it last night. These growth spurts where they learn new skills and drive us all crazy in the process...wonder weeks.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> JJ - yes, I hear you on the bedtime routine. Ours here is pretty straightforward. We dim all the lights and I begin to nurse Finn down while we watch a Blues Clues quietly. Mostly that's for Nora. For Finn, we probably started right around Ten's age, the 6 or so month mark, with getting him in his jammies, dimming the lights, putting away the toys (clean up, clean up....) and then nurse. Nora's bedtime routine as a little was so much more difficult b/c she wouldn't wind down. We did a bath in dim lights probably every night. No TV, no lights. I had to nurse her, and then stand and rock her (usually for 30 min to an hour) and then hope she'd stay asleep once I put her down. If not, rinse, repeat. It was exhausting!
> 
> I do have the NCSS book and some tips can really be helpful. Just keep in mind that while environment and routine do help encourage sleep, nothing can make your baby sleep. She has to do it on her own. Our job is to create the perfect environment so they understand sleep is expected -- doesn't mean it's going to work. I just don't want you to feel bad or like you aren't doing something right if you do all the tips/tricks and work yourself crazy trying to do something, and she still has trouble going down or staying asleep. Just know that you are a wonderful, loving, and smart mama. And that she WILL get there in time.


Sorry, I'm no help at the CTA postpartum. I need to get out my book and read it again. I never really read that part before... Hoping I won't have to for awhile! :/

Yeah, we're planning on starting at 7, and doing a bath, and then massage if she's letting us, diaper and jammies, read a few books, and then nursing and rocking until she falls asleep. I'm ok with it taking a while for her to fall asleep, but like Kat said- I don't like the crazy abrobatics, trying to get out of my arms when it's time for bed. Some nights she'll calm right down, and it's great, but others we get into the room and she just wants to play play play. But if I decide to keep her up, then she has a meltdown. So I'm hoping the routine will help cue her that it's time to wind down and get ready to sleep. After we're nursing quietly, I'm ok with it taking a while for her to actually go to sleep- I've always got a book or the ipod, so I'll stay in there for half hour or so. I'm also helping more of a wind down will help her wakeups in the first 90 minutes. She's getting better, but in general, we get her down to sleep, put her down, and then she wakes every 20-30 minutes, absolutely shrieking, and we have to go in and resettle her. So I'm hoping if she's more relaxed before she hits sleep, maybe it'll help? Worth a shot!!

But I totally get what you mean about not expecting it to just work -point blank-. I figure I'll go through the suggestions in the book that seem to me like they could be having an effect on her sleep, and if they help, then fantastic. If they don't, then I know it's just her body, her stage, etc etc. But at least then I'll know there's nothing that --we're-- doing that is resulting in her disjointed sleep, does that make sense? Because right now there's a few of the things that I'm like yeah... I can see how us doing X, is resulting in her waking up so frequently.

She's had a few small stretches lately of 2+ hours, so it makes me think she's working her way towards better sleep, just little by little. So I just want to help her along gently how we can.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> JJ: that's a lot of people! the cafe sounds promising. I wonder if there is a time they are not normally open, or less busy, they could close it for you? IDK how much that would cost though.
> 
> I should work on a bed time routine . . . I am too lazy.


It is! Usually it's just held at a family members house, but I'm not crazy about that- especially since I want both sides of the family to come and get it all done at once! lol From what I know about this place, they wouldn't charge us for 'rental', but we would be expected to order food (but omg is it to die for!), which I'm on the fence about, because it is on the expensive side for the soups/sandwiches/pizza type fare they serve. SIL had held a birthday party at a restaurant before, and we all ordered and paid for our own food, but I don't know if she would like this choice... so I don't know.

It all comes down to my SIL with her four "gluten intolerant" children. Did I mention that she admitted to my other SIL recently that she's pretty sure 2/4 aren't actually intolerant, but she's making them stick to the restrictions because she doesn't think it's fair to their siblings?!?! Anyways, she's very picky about only having gluten free food served around her children. She's the president of her montessori, and they did a fundraiser night-- yup, made the entire menu gluten free, just for them. Apparently there wasn't anyone else there that needed gluten free. I have no problem serving or ensuring there are gluten free items for them, but it doesn't seem fair that I wouldn't be able to serve the foods I wanted at a party (alongside ones they could have) because they aren't allowed to have them.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> Well, depends on your definition of easily . . . Gabe will lay down with you at bedtime until he falls asleep. Sometimes he cries a bit, but he doesn't try to get out of bed, just fidgets. And sometimes you lay with him over an hour before he finally drifts off. Norah. man. she fights lately, fights HARD. last night I was ping pong boobing her, trying different positions, just letting her get some wriggles out . . . it took a long time. *sigh* I am hoping it's just a phase.
> 
> Carrie, I wouldn't be too worried about your temps either. I can't even remember to temp. *ugh*


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> Baby_Cakes, are you "priming" your therm before turning it on? I would always hold my therm in my cheek for about 30 secs before turning it on to temp because I keep it so cold in our house. Once I started doing that, I got much more stable temps. But yeah, you are still nursing a lot so your hormones are probably all over the place. I would expect a bit of chart craziness.
> 
> ...


Oh, that makes so much sense about priming the therm!

And hey, at least Wonder Week makes it sounds exciting! I'll take any perspective I can get at 3am! How is she other than sleep? Has the breathing calmed down? I don't remember hearing an update about that, but I might have missed it.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

JJ ~ That's ridiculous! Sounds to me like your SIL is being self-centered. I would not put up with that to the point that I wouldn't even invite her to the party if she acted like that (but I can be nasty that way







).


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeninejessica*
> 
> Oh, that makes so much sense about priming the therm!
> 
> And hey, at least Wonder Week makes it sounds exciting! I'll take any perspective I can get at 3am! How is she other than sleep? Has the breathing calmed down? I don't remember hearing an update about that, but I might have missed it.


She's still breathing rapidly at times. But her ECHO showed excellent heart function and her chest xray was clear. I am going to call the nurse tomorrow and have her check with her pedi to see if he just wants to talk about this at her 12 month WBV or if we should come in before then. There has to be a reason why she's breathing fast some times and then not at others. Just so strange. She's teething SO bad, even drooling which she has never done before and she's generally just a whiny, drooling, mess. Good thing she's cute!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Unless you plan on hosting it at her house, there will be gluten. Seriously. She can get over it or not come. (I don't know her, obviously, but she seems like the sort of person that might not be missed . . . . that sounds mean. but I haven't had my coffee yet) I am all for accomodating various dieting restrictions - at both of Gabe's parties I have had vegetarians (thankfully no vegans, that's harder) and people allergic to everything in the onion family (garlic, shallots, leeks . . .) And was able to accomodate them without much problem. Say Quesadilla! But Gluten??? do you have to provide gluten free cake? ugh.

Annie/Lauri glad tests have come back ok - hope those teeth come through soon and you get a bit of a respite for the next ones.

Carrie - didn't comment on your ghost. But I have had something similiar happen to a friend and I and it totally freaked us out. at least he seems friendly.

MW: how is the truck doing? Ryan seems to like it. (unless he's being funny?)

AFU: I am tired, as usual. I hate these freaking long post partum cycles. Day 46 now. Last one was 53. On one hand, fewer periods to deal with. On the other, I hate the unpredictability. I have fertile signs around day 28-30, and if I O'd, that's a freakishly long LP.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

JJ - agreed about the gluten thing. As vegans we are always going to parties and I don't expect the host to completely cater to us! WTF? Also that's her issue if her kids can't be trusted not to eat something that isn't gluten free.

Now. There are easy things to have available that are gluten free so they aren't sitting there starving (I mean, cheese, rice, meat, fruits, veggies, etc) but I mean, NOTHING says you have to have the entire event GF! Redic.

Kat - long cycles sound like the pits and i think that's where I'm headed too. Boo.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Booo. Indeed - it's a major PITA. makes me worry too much about an oops. ~lalalalalalalal~ need to focus on other things, like coffee!

I had a big cup, and now I am feeling all sweaty. ugh.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I missed something about ghosts. What was it? I'm always fascinated by that sort of thing. I don't believe in them but I find that sort of stuff so interesting. I had a very scary experience with something like that right after I moved into this house.

The truck is fine. Ryan was being serious. He really likes it.

Ryan has a girlfriend who's been staying over. I was wondering last night what I thought/felt about that. I was feeling unsure about it but then thinking he is an adult and he does pay rent. If we were roommates, it would be ok unless we had made a rule against it together. Anyway, I realized that the problem is that I think I _should_ not allow it because that's what conventional parenting says but the truth is that it doesn't really bother me. It's not like they're chasing each other around the house naked with the kitchen utensils.









We've been sleeping pretty well. Dylan was up and squirmy until after midnight last night but we slept until almost 10 am so I can't really complain. We were just coming downstairs when DH came home from work.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> JJ - agreed about the gluten thing. As vegans we are always going to parties and I don't expect the host to completely cater to us! WTF? Also that's her issue if her kids can't be trusted not to eat something that isn't gluten free.
> 
> Now. There are easy things to have available that are gluten free so they aren't sitting there starving (I mean, cheese, rice, meat, fruits, veggies, etc) but I mean, NOTHING says you have to have the entire event GF! Redic.


Absolutely! I totally understand them wanting to have food the girls can eat as well. But not allowing the hosts to serve any gluten food (because it's not fair to the girls...) isn't fair. Or realistic. They're growing up. They're going to encounter foods they can't eat. They really need to be teaching the girls that, but they choose not to. And all you guys are right, it's very much her personality. She's known as the family thunder thief, and loves to make a huge deal about -everything-. Every time we post something new about Ten, or she finds out through the grapevine, she has to counter about something with her youngest (6m older than T). ie Tenley is teething "Oh, no way she'll get teeth yet. It'll be at least 2 more months. Don't get your hopes up. Oh, did you know that Marcus cut his first tooth last week?" Copy and paste with anything exciting we mention.

Ok, apparently it's naptime, I'll be back later.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Naptime...haha! We just got up for the morning a little over an hour ago.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Ryan has a girlfriend who's been staying over. I was wondering last night what I thought/felt about that. I was feeling unsure about it but then thinking he is an adult and he does pay rent. If we were roommates, it would be ok unless we had made a rule against it together. Anyway, I realized that the problem is that I think I _should_ not allow it because that's what conventional parenting says but the truth is that it doesn't really bother me. It's not like they're chasing each other around the house naked with the kitchen utensils.
> 
> ...


I think your point about paying rent is a very valid one. If he's contributing to the household AND having her there isn't further dipping into your household resources (ie I've had friends with roommates complain that bfs/gfs use up all the hot water, or all the groceries, or never clean up after themselves), then as long as they're not bothering you, I don't see why you should feel obligated to worry about it. You're right, if they were disturbing you in some way with excessive noise, or with the kids, or something, then that's different... but otherwise *shrugs* do what you feel is right.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Naptime...haha! We just got up for the morning a little over an hour ago.


She's been up since about 530am. I brought her into bed and she off and on slept and pulled my hair/scratched my back until almost 8, and then we were up for the day. But really... she's been awake since about 6am. 5 minutes here and there for 2 hours doesn't count! lol


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

MW: I am jealous of your wake up time! I feel good that I slept until 7! LOL

Ryan . . . hmmm. I am torn, bc while I agree with the above points (rent paying, non disruptive, etc - and he's an adult) with my own kids, it's like, just because they are an adult doesnt' mean they stop being your kids, IYKWIM. I want them to take sex seriously and hope they reserve it for a committed relationship (hopefully a monogomous one). I think with the later marriage ages we see, that saving it for marriage is a bit unrealistic (not impossible or anything, but just unlikely). I think if it was someone my child had been seeing/dating for a while, and I knew them, etc, I would be ok with it. I would NOT be ok with a bunch of one night stand type things. Plus if there are littles in the house, I am sure they would be looking up to the older one as a role model, etc. . . . So, yes, I am a bit conflicted. Thankfully, I have a while before that's an issue in our house!

I wish I could take a nap . . . enjoy JJ!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> MW: I am jealous of your wake up time! I feel good that I slept until 7! LOL
> 
> ...


Ugh. It was 15 minutes long, and she wouldn't fall back asleep, but is a monster now. So tired, but so fighting it. I think we're going to switch around our day and go grocery shopping soon so that I can put her in the carrier and hopefully she'll sleep long enough to tide her over until her afernoon nap.

Re: Ryan-- oh gosh yes! It would not fly in my books if it was different girls all the time. Totally different if it was the same person. I should also note that my mother let me have sleepovers with my boyfriend from age 17 onwards. But we are a freaking anomaly and didn't have sex until we were married. Lots of sleepovers, but that's really all they were.

And I see the point of there being little ones with curious minds in the house too. I guess it would depend on how it's handled by everyone.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

JJ ~ Dylan did something similar with his nap yesterday. He woke up too soon, would not go back to sleep, but was just fussy, fussy, fussy afterward. He did finally fall back to sleep maybe an hour or so later but it was not fun dealing with him before that!

Oh, and we didn't sleep straight from midnight until 10 am. Dylan stirred several times to nurse and dh woke me up at least twice coming into the bedroom between 5 and 6 am.









Yeah, Ryan's not having a string of one night stands. This is his girlfriend, albeit relatively new, but monogamous as far as he says. Ryan's not into one night stands. That's one thing he complained about here when I asked him in the past why he wasn't interested in dating. He said all the young women here are either looking for a Marine to marry or are already married to Marines and only looking for hook ups. He's not interested in wasting his time if it's not going to be a relationship.







And, honestly, I don't know that they are having sex, only that she's slept over a few times. I slept with boyfriends without having sex.

Ethan was a little concerned the first time he saw her car still here in the morning. Kellen said it was ok because she was with Ryan.

I get the feeling that your kids are always your kids but once they are adults they aren't children anymore. I don't subscribe to that whole, "while under my roof you have to follow my strict, controlling rules," mindset. Yes, everyone needs to be respectful of everyone else but once you are legally an adult and responsible for yourself, things like curfews are ridiculous, imo.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Not strict rules - but respect. like the girl/woman (she is younger than me, but older than my little sister) who rented the basement before we moved in. - she would come home, late, drunk off her butt, ringing the doorbell at 2 a.m. A curferw is stupid for someone who isn't even your kid, but some respect for the "landlords" is appreciated.

and I am glad Ryan feels that way. I was trying to get into my head, how I might feel 15-20 years down the line about something like that. And yes, you can sleep over without sex. DH and I did for months before we were married. So, my ramblings were more to the, what would I do or think in that situation? sort of thing.

I don't think I've stayed in bed past 8 or 9 am . . . . since I was pregnant with DS. *sigh* I would rather go to bed early, but DS is too much of a night owl.

The kids stay in bed with DH some days until around 10.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Ended up going out and doing yardwork with Ten on my back and she slept for about an hour I think? I'm borrowing a Boba right now, and I love it!! Much better than the Beco. Rob still prefers the mei tai, but I think I could be convinced into the Boba fulltime! (Not that we're in the market for another carrier...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *MarineWife* 

Yeah, Ryan's not having a string of one night stands. This is his girlfriend, albeit relatively new, but monogamous as far as he says. Ryan's not into one night stands. That's one thing he complained about here when I asked him in the past why he wasn't interested in dating. He said all the young women here are either looking for a Marine to marry or are already married to Marines and only looking for hook ups. He's not interested in wasting his time if it's not going to be a relationship.







And, honestly, I don't know that they are having sex, only that she's slept over a few times. I slept with boyfriends without having sex.


> I get the feeling that your kids are always your kids but once they are adults they aren't children anymore. I don't subscribe to that whole, "while under my roof you have to follow my strict, controlling rules," mindset. Yes, everyone needs to be respectful of everyone else but once you are legally an adult and responsible for yourself, things like curfews are ridiculous, imo.


Yeah, if we all raise our children and at 20-something, that's their mindset, I think we're doing alright! lol

I think that as long as they are living at home, they need to be following your rules. But I agree they don't need to be strict and controlling. But like, if you did decide that you weren't comfortable with her spending the night, then I think you're fully within your rights to say no, she can't stay. Or she can only stay on Sat/Sun, etc etc. He's still living under your roof, and I am of the belief that if a child (well adult, but child in this sense) is still living at home, then they need to be respectful of house rules still. Now, if it were things like "You're 21, but I want you home by 10pm every night, and no friends over unless you ask permission, and I'm going to check if your room is clean every day" ... then yeah, that's silly, and as that child, I'd be hightailing it out of there! lol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> Not strict rules - but respect. like the girl/woman (she is younger than me, but older than my little sister) who rented the basement before we moved in. - she would come home, late, drunk off her butt, ringing the doorbell at 2 a.m. A curferw is stupid for someone who isn't even your kid, but some respect for the "landlords" is appreciated.


^^Yeah, basically that.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Yeah, that's why I said that everyone needs to be respectful of everyone else. I do expect Ryan and his friends to be respectful of us and I also try to be respectful of them. I know many parents who are not respectful toward their children regardless of their age and I think that's really sad.

I guess I can understand telling your adult child no BFs/GFs spending the night if you aren't comfortable if they are still relying on you for all their financial support. Even then, though, I kind of see that as the parents using their financial position to control the adult child and I don't think that's very respectful. Plus, I think that if the adult child is working and paying rent it becomes even more their home, too. I mean, technically Ryan is helping to pay for our mortgage. That sort of gives him a financial piece in our home. It is his home, too, whether he pays anything or not, though, just like it's the younger boys' home.

DH has that mindset and it really bugs me. For example, the other day he asked (read that as told in a request type of way) Ryan to not park in the driveway so he could park his truck there. His reasoning was that his truck is a lot bigger than Ryan's car. I guess that means it's more likely to get sideswipped or whatever. Ryan said something to Sean about why he parked in the driveway. Sean's response was, "I'll tell you what. When you start paying half the mortgage, you can park in the garage." To me, that was just mean and nasty and disrespectful. Sean sort of flexing his muscles at Ryan. I get Sean's POV but the way he approached it gave the message that he thinks he and his things are more important than Ryan and Ryan's things. I mean, with that line of thinking, since I don't contribute at all financially I shouldn't be allowed to park in the driveway.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Msybe express that to Sean? It mIght help him see it in a different light.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Yeah I agree with you mw. The way I feel about it is is want my son or daughters girl/boy friend to be comfortable enough around me and the others in the house that it doesn't come across secretive. My older sisters always had boyfriends come and sleep over or live there at my moms, but it was awkward. Very secretive, slinking in and out, barely a hello... I don't want that. Come hang out. Eat dinner with us. Be a house guest rather than a sleep over buddy, you know?

I agree Seans comment could be really offensive. :-(

Who all is going in September? How many days are each of you staying?
I think I have a touch of whatever this virus is the kids have, and I'm beat. I'm trying to get them down now so I can sit, not watch Thomas, and not think for a little while. Sometimes it's exhausting wording things so Nora will not only listen, but not flip out. I think we had a pretty good day tho, for all of us being sick.

Oh, and I noticed a yeast rash in one of Finns thigh rolls. I think it's painful! He screamed when I puked the fold apart. I felt terrible! I'm sure that's not helping his mood.

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> I missed something about ghosts. What was it? I'm always fascinated by that sort of thing. I don't believe in them but I find that sort of stuff so interesting. I had a very scary experience with something like that right after I moved into this house.


Last night around 3 am, I went into the kitchen with Finn to get him motrin. I got the bottle and the syrnge, and out of nowhere heard a male deep voice loud say, "YOU ALRIGHT?" in my right ear. I spun around ready to kill Chris thinking it was him seeing if we were ok (he sleeps in the living room), and he knows I hate being snuck up on at night. There was nobody there. I looked around in the dark for like a minute before it really registered in my mind what had just happened. It was REAL. That voice, I can still hear it in my head.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Last night around 3 am, I went into the kitchen with Finn to get him motrin. I got the bottle and the syrnge, and out of nowhere heard a male deep voice loud say, "YOU ALRIGHT?" in my right ear. I spun around ready to kill Chris thinking it was him seeing if we were ok (he sleeps in the living room), and he knows I hate being snuck up on at night. There was nobody there. I looked around in the dark for like a minute before it really registered in my mind what had just happened. It was REAL. That voice, I can still hear it in my head.


This is still creeping me out! I just got chills reading it again! Man, I probably wouldn't have been able to stay in the house until it got light outside.

I'm planning to go for the whole time but I'm seriously reconsidering Busch Gardens, especially if Ava still isn't walking. There's no way I'm carrying her butt around all day and she tolerates a stroller for about 0.7 seconds.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Carrie ~ I've got some pills for those voices in your head.









Did I tell you guys my ghost story? Like I said, it started right after I moved into this house, so summer 2007. Sean was deployed. I would feel like I'd wake up in the middle of the night to a dark shadow hovering over my bed. I was terrified. I couldn't move or make a sound. I would try to yell for Ryan but no sound would come out of my mouth. It happened multiple times and got worse every time. The last few times the shadow thing was literally pinning me down. I was screaming at it in my head to come and get me like I was going to fight it.







I told my therapist. She said it was fear, my fear of something manifesting itself as night terrors. After that it stopped and has never come back. I think it's pretty cool that once I knew what it was, it was gone.

Obviously, I'm going to Williamsburg for the whole time. I'm still waiting to see if Sean can get the time off. He's now going to be the Commanding Officer of something, which might make it difficult for him to take leave. He has to use it or lose, though, so that might be in his favor. I guess it just depends on how busy his job is.

I did tell Sean my perspective on what he said but he didn't get it. His response was, "Fine, then Ryan can park in the driveway," very begrudgingly. That's what he does. If he doesn't immediately get what he wants, he gets very passive/aggressive. I told Sean if that was the best he could than I guess that's how it would be. Ryan did move his car.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Yeah I can see the problem with how Sean worded that. I do get that he feels he has priority for parking the truck on the driveway... but definitely could have been approached better!!

I'm not going, but I'll be thinking of you guys!! Annie and I will have a mdc party and keep the thread alive :lol


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

All these ghosts!

I've taken time off, but it will depend on whether or not DH is working and is coming. I think I plan on staying the whole time.

Has any of you toddlers just cried, and cried and gotten louder and nothing calms them? I can't quite call it a tantrum, because it's just standing still and there isn't really any defiance to it. IDK if you have any ideas to diffuse it? What works, sort of, is just cuddling and not talking (bc talking gets no response and sometimes makes it worse) although I admit, when Gabe gets like this, I really don't feel like cuddling him. I feel like I am missing something, like some piece of the puzzle, but don't know what ~ and he can't/won't tell me.

Truck parking *ugh* That could have been handled way better. (by Sean) Like hey, Ryan, it's not really safe for the truck to be street parked, as there's not much space there for all this sexiness. Do you mind moving your car so I can park in the driveway?

That said, I've been the extra (3rd or 4th) car in a family for years, and it's always been kind of understood that I get te sucky parking spot. From getting my first car in high school, to living with my grandmother in college, being the 3rd car when we lived in Japan, and again back stateside, then with the IL's before they were ILs . . . . I didn't get priority parking until we had our own house. Now I get it sort of, living with my parents, because toting kids around gives you a bit more clout in that fight.

man, I'm tired.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Carrie ~ I've got some pills for those voices in your head.


It wasn't in my head. I swear! I heard it!!









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> Truck parking *ugh* That could have been handled way better. (by Sean) Like hey, Ryan, it's not really safe for the truck to be street parked, as there's not much space there for all this sexiness. Do you mind moving your car so I can park in the driveway?












Ok good. I'm pretty sure 99.99% sure, we're staying the whole time, too. MW, can I paypal you the money? Will that work?


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Yes, you can send the money PP or WePay. I have accounts with both.

Haha, Kat, too much sexiness!

I get the conventional idea of feeling like you should get priority parking because you are the adult or the parent or whatever. But, if you are trying to live a consensual life where everyone is equal regardless of age or gender or financial contribution or whatever else you can think of, then that idea doesn't fit. As soon as I go somewhere in the van I'm going to park it in the street so Ryan can park in the driveway. He had a valid reason but I can't remember what it was. It's not really a problem parking in the street. It's still right in front of the house.

I doubt we'll do Busch Gardens, either. I'm going to get passes for Williamsburg, though. Ryan had a really good time there when he was about Ethan's age so I think Ethan and Kellen will really like it, too.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Uh oh - we need someone to come with us to Busch so someone can watch the littles while we go on rides! Lauri - come! We'll help with Ava!! Are the big kids able to come?

If we do the flex tickets, busch is included, as well as Jamestowne and a bunch of other things....

http://admissions.williamsburgmarketplace.com/eStore/Content/Commerce/Products/DisplayProductDetails.aspx?ProductGroupCode=1057&ProductCategoryCode=4&ProductCode=14132&Mode=Standard


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

ooh, coasters! DH can't ride them, but I can! The flex ticket sound neat, (pricey, but neat) I need to work on saving some $$. *sigh* I suck at saving money.

Lauri, can you wear Ava? makes her not walking and not stroller riding less of an issue.

Consensual living . . . I don't know how to apply that in anywhere except maybe at home. It doesn't jive at work. Even at home, someone is always giving way to someone else's needs - not saying it's not possible, I just don't know how you make that work.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I think it's hard with littles b/c usually decisions are made 2:1 in favor of the baby, or in favor of what's easiest/best for the mama/baby pair. But with a grown child, or with a spouse, it's easier and better I think to be on equal ground. You do make sacrifices but you don't throw power around (does that make sense?) to make decisions.

Ladies, I going to take both kids to the dr by myself. I'm so not looking fwd to this. Nora complained her ear hurt and Finn is still a hot mess...I might as well take both if I'm going to take one. I really hope they find nothing wrong.

Idk what is up with these kids and chronic ear infections. Is there anything I can do to prevent them? This is like Finn's 5th (if he has one) and all these abx make me nervous!

It's gorgeous out. If they feel up to it I'm setting up the pool outside and getting them in the sun! Vit D can't hurt!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Kat ~ I meant to answer your question about the crying. Sometimes the only thing we can do is be present for the child. He may need to just get emotions out and that's how he's doing it. He may be trying to get someone's attention. Kellen will cry louder if he thinks we aren't responding fast enough. Empathizing could help if you have any inkling of why he's upset. Just keep in mind that sometimes children will cry even more or louder at first because they feel safer doing so if they think they are really being understood.

We don't live a completely consensual life. I don't think it's possible with young children that adults are legally responsible for. However, keeping the principles of consensual living in mind, I try to take the kids' thoughts, feelings, ideas and perspectives into account as equally as possible. In that vein, no one's vehicle is any more important than anyone else's. To me, the thoughtful, caring thing to do is leave space in the driveway for whomever thinks it's most important to park there. Since I don't really care if my van is in the driveway or on the street, I'll park on the street. I'm not giving anything up so that Ryan and dh can both park there because I don't care. If I cared, the thing to do would be maybe say that either the first person home parks on the street or first come, first serve for the driveway. I think it's also possible for Ryan to park his car behind the van or the truck. The only problem with that is that someone might have to move cars since we have different schedules. That's not a big deal, though, imo.

Anyway, the idea of consensual living is to do just that. Take everyone into account equally and work toward a solution that makes everyone happy. It can sometimes be difficult and may take several tries at different things but it's not impossible. Of course, it's a lot harder when one parent wants to live that way but the other doesn't get it.

Carrie ~ Regular application of garlic ear drops might help clear up and prevent the ear problems. Breastmilk might help, too. Also, keep in mind that was looks like and is called an ear infection is not always a bacterial infection. I read that any time the inside of the ear looks red or swollen or inflamed it's called an ear infection even if there may not be any bacteria present. That's one reason that medical associations now recommend against giving abx right away. Unless the child has a fever and has been sick for over week, I wouldn't think of giving abx. It takes at least a week for the immune system to fully kick in and start fighting an infection fully. Also, treating a fever with acetaminophen or ibuprofen can prolong the illness since the purpose of fever is to kill any invading organism that might be making the body sick with heat.

When I click on that link for the flex pass I just get this thread again. Weird. I looked at that before and am not willing to pay that much, especially for something I don't really want to do. I really do not like amusement/theme parks. Also, I definitely would not do something like that without dh because I am such a baby about that sort of stuff. I need him to take care of me as well as the kids.







I can get a 3 day pass for Williamsburg, Jamestown and Yorktown for a lot less.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

The flex pass is a bit much....plus its for 7 days. And we aren't going that long so it seems a bit of a waste.

Does the multi-day admission ticket include Jamestowne or is that a seperate pass? I'm confused by their site.









I agree, mw. I might try garlic oil going forward. Both kids had high fevers (well, moderate, 102-103.6) for 3-4 days prior to these, so we'll do abx. Nora's is especially bad, the dr said. Poor kid. I knew it had to be bad for her to mention it.

Chris ended up coming with me to the dr. Thank goodness he was able to! It would have been difficult. I don't know how I would do it w/o another lap/set of hands.

JJ - saw you had a rough night. Just sending out love!









I'm definitely starting to feel sick myself. Great. It's gorgeous out!! Boo hiss.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Let me look into the tickets again. I can't remember if I was looking at the Timeshare site, the Williamsburg site or some other discount site. I also keep meaning to check with the military ITT to see what deals they have. What site are you looking at?

Dr. Sears says that a fever even as high as 107, or maybe it's just under 107, is not dangerous and not always necessary for medical attention/treatment. You need to look at behavior more than the number of the thermometer. Check out his site for a list of concerning behaviors. Lethargy is one and he does a good job of explaining the difference between true lethargy and the normal tiredness that comes with illness. Kellen had a fever very close to, if not at, 104 for 2 or 3 days when we were at my mom's. I didn't give him anything because he didn't want it. I didn't take him to the doctor, either. The fever went away after a few days but he was still mildly sick for at least a week after.

Go outside if you can just to sit and soak up some sun, make some vitamin D! All you need is 15 minutes.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Go outside if you can just to sit and soak up some sun, make some vitamin D! All you need is 15 minutes.


That's exactly what we are going to do!

Yes, I agree with you on watching the child rather than the fever. Anything under 103 I didn't medicate. Once Nora hit 103.6, her lids were droopy and she was crying and her skin hurt to touch. A dose of Motrin brought it right down and she was up playing about 45 min later. To me that's worth it.

Again, you have to just use your own judgement, b/c one child's normal isn't another childs.

Finn is also teething so I knew his fever + teething was making him ridiculously frustrated and uncomfortable. Once his got to 102 I did give him motrin.

I was looking at the plain williamsburg site, under ticket info.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I think this is where I was looking before for ticket prices. http://www.colonialwilliamsburg.com/plan/tickets/ticket-options/

I'm a little confused by the Bounce Ticket. I'm not sure if that's for only one day or more. I can't imagine being expected to do Williamsburg, Busch Gardens and Water Country all in one day. I thought there was something that covered 3 days but I can't find it now. Maybe it expired. I think I'd be most interested in the Historic Triangle Ticket.

The Williamsburg website says military get a 10% discount. If that's all, then I think the online price might be cheaper.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I haven't ever given Motrin or Tylenol. It is isn't even in the house. It's not that I'm against it per se, but the times we've had a fever high enough to warrant it (for Gabe - 2-3 times so far) the fever was gone in less than 24 hours. We use peppermint oil - both applied and diffused in the air, which helps, and lavendar, which is good for physical pain and stress. For ears, Basil oil applied externally - this works very fast, in our experience.

Now, if one of them were miserable, and none of the things in my natural toolbox were working, Walgreens and Walmart are open 24 hours and about 10 minutes away - which is why we don't have any in the house. espeically living with my parents (who aren't into overmedicating either - but . . .) I like to not have it as an option.

the screaming/crying . . . I really wish I had a clue. When he calmed down enough to talk, he asked for a drink, but started crying again once it was offered. It took a long time to calm him down. This doesn't happen often, or hasn't, but when it does, it breaks me. Makes me want to cry and give up, but that's just not an option.

I think to some extent the consensual living the way to describe comes naturally. you want to make everyone happy. But sometimes there is no pleasing everybody, and then who gets priority?

I need to go soak up some sun.

Carrie - hope the kiddos feel better soon!


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

akind1, maybe he's overstimulated? What if you gave him a firm bear hug and gently rocked him, to help him recenter himself?

I want to go to Busch Gardens but dude, Ava is wearing me out right now. It's the combo of hardly any sleep, her teething so she's a big whiny mess and not walking yet so she wants to be carried everywhere. I just can't even fathom going right now. And I do wear her but when we're out, especially if we are with DH, she wants to go back and forth between the two of us. So re-wrapping her is a big PITA. Maybe she'll be walking by then. Or maybe she will miraculously decide her stroller isn't a torture device.

I know I talk about it all the time but Baby_Cakes you may want to consider adding probiotics to their daily routine to head off some of those infections.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Lauri, holding him helps temporarily, but he starts screaming and crying again, and it's hard. I wish I knew what triggers it.

If you did a mei tai or buckle carrier, she could pass back and forth with less fuss. Just a thought. I don't know if I want to drag a stroller, but sometimes dude likes to ride.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> I want to go to Busch Gardens but dude, Ava is wearing me out right now. It's the combo of hardly any sleep, her teething so she's a big whiny mess and not walking yet so she wants to be carried everywhere. I just can't even fathom going right now. And I do wear her but when we're out, especially if we are with DH, she wants to go back and forth between the two of us. So re-wrapping her is a big PITA. Maybe she'll be walking by then. Or maybe she will miraculously decide her stroller isn't a torture device.
> 
> I know I talk about it all the time but Baby_Cakes you may want to consider adding probiotics to their daily routine to head off some of those infections.


Well we have time to decide! I know she's a hot mess right now. Finn is too and it's so hard for me to imagine going anywhere with him. But, this too shall pass.

I don't see why I don't just do that with probiotics.

Do you guys give baby a multi? I'm wondering if extra D would help in addition, or if the multi is enough.

AFM - I think I'm about to O. My pelvis and my bits are so achey and sore, and CM has switched to very watery. If it's not it, it's close to it, or gearing up.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Ava gets a little bit of breastmilk (probably 10 ml) with her probiotics powder and a drop of the Carlson D-Drops every day. I swear by it.

I need to look in to getting a mei tei or a buckle. I looked at the Infantino mei tei because it's cheap but I got mixed reviews.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

I've heard that from Dr.Sears about the 107 fever, but IMO that's just crazy. I totally get that a fever is a -good thing- and is the body's way of fighting off sickness, and I wouldn't treat a low fever unless it was accompanied by other behavioral upsets. But anything over 104 is a risk for seizure, and so I disagree that 105, 106 etc is nothing to worry about. I would probably medicate (fever alone) for anything over about 102. But it's also rare for a fever to get that high without accompanied behavior/discomfort. That said, it does make me roll my eyes a bit when you get people who are like "She had a bad fever, I had to take her to the doctor and give tylenol", and then you find out if was like, 99.5...

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> I haven't ever given Motrin or Tylenol. It is isn't even in the house. It's not that I'm against it per se, but the times we've had a fever high enough to warrant it (for Gabe - 2-3 times so far) the fever was gone in less than 24 hours. We use peppermint oil - both applied and diffused in the air, which helps, and lavendar, which is good for physical pain and stress. For ears, Basil oil applied externally - this works very fast, in our experience.
> 
> Now, if one of them were miserable, and none of the things in my natural toolbox were working, Walgreens and Walmart are open 24 hours and about 10 minutes away - which is why we don't have any in the house. espeically living with my parents (who aren't into overmedicating either - but . . .) I like to not have it as an option.


Oh, you reminded me I should pull out my lavender. I haven't used it in a while, but we're at the end of our rope with bedtime, and I need something else to try. She already gets teething tablets every night before bed. We don't give the tylenol unless she's waking up thrashing and crying though.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> I need to look in to getting a mei tei or a buckle. I looked at the Infantino mei tei because it's cheap but I got mixed reviews.


I've heard the infantino is a little bit cheaply made. We were talking about it in the babywearing group here a while back. I really like my babyhawk, and would definitely pay for it again. I'm also a big fan of the Boba right now. Have you checked on thebabywearer forums? If you're not crazy picky about prints like I was, they seemed to have quite a few babyhawks come up for pretty cheap.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Yeah, I think 107 is a bit much. The highest Gabe has gotten is like 104, and it came down within hours with just using EOs. He just seemed to want to sleep anytime he got a fever, and I thought that was probably what his body needed.

I hate seeing people medicate for low-grade fevers. ugh. And it sounds wrong on some level, but I also hate when people counteract what I'm doing with my children with, "but MY ped said . . ." bc honestly, your ped might be great, they might be a crackpot. I don't know. I do know they've never seen my child and aren't giving me advice. I local friend asked about BLW and I said something about offering cheese, and she's like, the ped didn't say anything about cheese. I guess I just don't use pediatricians for that level of advice. Granted I didn't listen to my OBs list of foods I could and couldn't eat either. LOL

Infantino doesn't have a great rep as a company, and the stuff is likely not well made. IF you can sew, A friend has made some great Mei Tais from target tablecloths. (16.99 + labor = awesome)

This is a great price on a used Boba:

http://www.diaperswappers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1408332

A freaking awesome price on a buckle carrier, and I've heard good things about this brand

http://www.diaperswappers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1407464

A babyhawk:

http://www.diaperswappers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1409394

I did diaperswappers bc I don't think you need to register to see the links; TBW you do.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Dude, maybe I'm just a wuss, but I woke up with a low grade fever this morning and tried so hard not to take ibuprofen, but I felt AWFUL. I have to function! In a perfect world, I would have let it ride, but I can't just lay on the couch all day. LOL. I'm feeling much better now.

Sad news, my bff miscarried.







She seems ok...as ok as one can be. But I still feel terrible for her and am sending her healing vibes.

In other news, another friend had an unplanned unassisted home birth today! Exciting, and crazy. All are well.

My fever today is def influencing my chart. I don't agree with the dotted crosshairs at all...but I did have a bit of ewcm today and ovulation pains yesterday and still today. Crazy. It's like my body is an engine trying to turn over.

Chart.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

um, glad dtd with an x is protected! else, that would be possibly good timing. Also, I find it's great for TTA that I get migraines at O. who want to DTD then?


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> um, glad dtd with an x is protected! else, that would be possibly good timing.


LOL, yes! Until I know my cycle better we are just using protection all the time. No risking it!

Migraines are no fun. Yuck.

Went for a lonnnng stroller walk. It was too hot. Enjoying the a/c a bit while we have lunch, and then we're just going to to out back and splash and play. But it's HOT out there!!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I want to splash!

I feel like we are playing with fire a bit - we use protection when I *think* I'm fertile. But . . . .I am still freaked out a bit. I need AF to go ahead and show up so I can be less freaked out.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

You ARE playing with fire! Are you really ok with an oops? If so then nbd.

I want to want to splash. I just feel so horrible. I finally broke down and took cough medicine and decongestant...hoping it kicks in soon. Ugh. I hate being sick.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Well, we would have to be ok with it. I am generally pretty good at telling fertile signs without a thermometer, but if I was temping, it would allow for more condom free days. *sigh*

We are going to splash tomorrow. Gabe is making cookies with Grandna. I hear him going "yay!"


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Now I want to start temping! I've been charting CM since I got my cycle back but haven't temped. Need to get battery for my therm!

Ava pulled up by herself today! She was so surprised! It was the cutest thing. And she LOVES her birthday outfit my mom got her. She kept going over to the tutu and pointing to it so I would put it on her.


----------



## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> Yeah, I think 107 is a bit much. The highest Gabe has gotten is like 104, and it came down within hours with just using EOs. He just seemed to want to sleep anytime he got a fever, and I thought that was probably what his body needed.
> 
> I hate seeing people medicate for low-grade fevers. ugh. And it sounds wrong on some level, but I also hate when people counteract what I'm doing with my children with, "but MY ped said . . ." bc honestly, your ped might be great, they might be a crackpot. I don't know. I do know they've never seen my child and aren't giving me advice.


Yes, and yes! I feel like saying "And did you ask your ped when the last time they looked up research studies on that? Or where their degree on parenting is? Or why such and such practice they advocate goes -against- WHO guidelines?"

And yeah, if the child is very hot, but is handling it okay, then I mean obviously take that into consideration.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Dude, maybe I'm just a wuss, but I woke up with a low grade fever this morning and tried so hard not to take ibuprofen, but I felt AWFUL. I have to function! In a perfect world, I would have let it ride, but I can't just lay on the couch all day. LOL. I'm feeling much better now.
> 
> ...


Yes, I should clarify that I'm not as slow to medicate when it's adults. But I just feel like a/ we have the choice to take it/ask for it/etc, whereas the kids don't, we're the ones deciding their pain/discomfort level, kwim? and b/ our bodies are better able to handle the medication. I know dosages and all that figure in, but it's the same reason I have no problem getting a vaccination myself, but hesitate for T. My body is more developed than hers.

*hugs for your friend* Such a hard thing to go through, and so hard to watch from the sidelines too. It seems like there's really nothing easy or right to say...

I pretty much point blank asked my bff the other day if she was pregnant. She says no, but I'm not quite sure I believe her... Anyways, she had initially said somewhere around this next winter they were probably going to start trying... but... she's a very competitive person, and after she found out I was pregnant, talked a lot about how much she didn't want to wait anymore, etc etc. We're all a little surprised that she's not pregnant yet...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Went for a lonnnng stroller walk. It was too hot. Enjoying the a/c a bit while we have lunch, and then we're just going to to out back and splash and play. But it's HOT out there!!


We had a "Babywearing Walk" today with the group, and then once it was done, DH wasn't ready to pick us up yet, so I walked to meet him.... All in total I walked 2.4 miles, all with Ten in the Boba. It felt good, but then I got there, and took off the carrier, and I was drenched anywhere she had been touching me. Blegh. I need to get in the habit of walking/running more though. You did the C25k, was it -honestly- couch to, or should I start something else first? I'm so unhappy with my body still, it's time to do something!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> Ava pulled up by herself today! She was so surprised! It was the cutest thing. And she LOVES her birthday outfit my mom got her. She kept going over to the tutu and pointing to it so I would put it on her.


Awww! I can't wait until we get to that point where she's excited about something like that!


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Hot babywearing - local peeps suggested these cool athletic towels to help. You might still get wet, but you will feel cooler.


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> Now I want to start temping! I've been charting CM since I got my cycle back but haven't temped. Need to get battery for my therm!
> 
> Ava pulled up by herself today! She was so surprised! It was the cutest thing. And she LOVES her birthday outfit my mom got her. She kept going over to the tutu and pointing to it so I would put it on her.


OOh start! I like charting. Gives me something to do.

Go Ava! I love it. I love when they are so proud of themselves for something they do! And I cannot wait to see that birthday tutu! She's going to look adorable!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeninejessica*
> You did the C25k, was it -honestly- couch to, or should I start something else first? I'm so unhappy with my body still, it's time to do something!


It really is. I started barely being able to jog a quarter mile without dying at a slow pace. And it's only a 30 min program, so easy to squeeze in at least a time or two a week. If you have the determination, you can totally do it.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Oh - and I can't believe I forgot to say it - Finn slept thru the WHOLE night last night. I'm still in shock. He woke me up just before 6 am to nurse, gulped down a ton, popped off, rolled over and went back to sleep. I was in so much shock I couldn't go back to sleep! I was like holy crap! He slept thru from 9 ish at night til 545 am!!!! Who DOES that!? MY BABY DID!!!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I stopped getting notifications again! This is getting redic. It's happening way too often.

Anyway...

Carrie ~ I don't agree with your chart at all. Even without a fever, you don't have a true thermal shift. Your CL for cd16 should be 97.2. Now it should be 97.5 because of your cd17 temp.








for Finn sleeping so long and Ava pulling herself up.

Dylan has been doing some really cute things lately. He loves to play peek-a-boo. He also scrunches his face up and blinks his eyes at me as a game. He laughs and laughs. So fun!

I had to get up early today to take the boys to dh's change of command ceremony. I don't know why they always have to schedule those things so early.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I like charting, when I am getting enough sleep to remember to do it!

MW: Marines are early birds. I wish I knew why!

I am so sleepy . . .

Hooray for new skills. Norah is speed crawling and cruising like . . .I don't know what. But girl is wicked mobile. I am in trouble!


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> IMW: Marines are early birds. I wish I knew why!


yeah, i know. dh has been sleeping in the other room during the week so he won't wake us when he gets up at 5 am. One guy mentioned that it seems someone should have figured out by now that if they schedule those things at 1300 everyone could go home for the day after.









Another cute thing Dylan has been doing is figuring out how to lift my shirt himself to get milk.

Oh, and I think Ryan has quit smoking. He says he has and I haven't seen him with cigarettes or smelling smoke even though his new girlfriend smokes. Maybe those e-cigarettes do actually help.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Took Ava to pick out her birthday invites. They had some with Elmo and polka dots. I wish I had been filming her when I handed them to her. She kept laughing out loud, she would hold them up for me to see then look at them again and laugh. I love this little girl! This is such a fun age!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Oh - and I can't believe I forgot to say it - Finn slept thru the WHOLE night last night. I'm still in shock. He woke me up just before 6 am to nurse, gulped down a ton, popped off, rolled over and went back to sleep. I was in so much shock I couldn't go back to sleep! I was like holy crap! He slept thru from 9 ish at night til 545 am!!!! Who DOES that!? MY BABY DID!!!


Go Finn!! What a gift that must feel like! All night!!

Must be something with the planets or something! Ten had a dream night last night too! Rob actually got out of bed to go check on her because she'd been quiet so long. After the last little bit of waking up between every 30-75 minutes at the most, last night we put her to bed and...

1. No fuss to fall asleep. Nursed at about 8:10, made cute noises, and feel into a deadweight sleep on my lap almost immediately.

2. Didn't wake up when I put her into her crib. Just sighed, and cuddled up to her blanket.

3. Woke at around 8:45, and again around 9:20, but settled almost immediately with just backrubs in the crib- didn't even have to pick her up.

3. I dreamfed her at 11:30, and she snuggled into me so sweetly, and stroked my chest. Put her down no fuss! Whispered to her that she had to sleep until 2.

4. Woke up at 2:20, nursed, fell back asleep immediately, no fuss going into crib. Whispered to her that she had to sleep until 6.

5. Woke up at 6:15am, happy as a clam. Nursed her, but wouldn't go back to sleep, but happy at least! She laid in bed with us for 30 minutes or so while I tried to convince her to go back to sleep. No dice, so I brought her into the living room and put einstein on, and I dozed while she watched and cuddled with me.

You better believe I am going to replicate everything leading up to bedtime tonight! lol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Another cute thing Dylan has been doing is figuring out how to lift my shirt himself to get milk.
> Oh, and I think Ryan has quit smoking. He says he has and I haven't seen him with cigarettes or smelling smoke even though his new girlfriend smokes. Maybe those e-cigarettes do actually help.


Ahh! I'm dreading T figuring that out!

Good for him! Hey, totally worth buying him the e-cigarettes then!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> Took Ava to pick out her birthday invites. They had some with Elmo and polka dots. I wish I had been filming her when I handed them to her. She kept laughing out loud, she would hold them up for me to see then look at them again and laugh. I love this little girl! This is such a fun age!


Adorable!!! It's funny how so young they still show such a preference and excitement over certain things.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeninejessica*
> 
> Ahh! I'm dreading T figuring that out!


Why!? Oh my gosh, it's one of the sweetest things! When they climb or crawl over to you, and point to your breast or pull at your shirt...oh man. You just feel like they get it.


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Why!? Oh my gosh, it's one of the sweetest things! When they climb or crawl over to you, and point to your breast or pull at your shirt...oh man. You just feel like they _get it._












I love it. It's one of the sweetest things.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

I guess I should clarify. She already will tug at my shirt and mouth at any exposed skin. It's moreso the ability/knowledge to tug my shirt down/up in public that I'm not looking forward to! I have no problem nursing in public, but random flashing is not in my plans! lol But yes, agreed that realizing they're smart enough to know that's where the milk and comfort come from-- that part is very cool.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

JJ: random public flashing is not one of my things either. Gabe still tugs down at my shirt, to get my attention, and I really wish he wouldn't. Norah bobbs her head, banging in on my breast, until I get the hint and let her eat.

Too tired to think of more. But it's only 7 a.m. I'm drinking coffee, and may need more. I am almost out of creamer


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Guys, I feel like I'm living in a dream and someone is going to come pinch me and tell me I feel asleep on the floor! LOL

Tenley went to bed pretty easily again last night, fell asleep at about 8. Went in twice and rubbed her back, but never had to pick her up. At 10:30 she woke up and nursed, then put her back into the crib. She fussed a bit, but didn't have to pick her back up again.

Then she woke up at FIVE THIS MORNING!! She technically slept 'through the night!', and really, slept the entire time I slept! I came to bed at 1130, and then woke up with her at 5, and then around 6 I finally convinced her to go back to sleep for about 45 minutes. She woke up again, and we came out to the living room and she played while I dozed on the couch. Then DH got up at about 8 and he watched her while I went and slept for another hour.

I forgot what it felt like to be rested, to not feel like dying every time you swing your legs over the side of the bed! And when I go in, I pick her up and snuggle her and tell her I love her, instead of grumbling that I hate her and she needs to SLEEEEEP! I'm even spending more time in the room with her when she does wake up, just kissing her, and cuddling her, because I'm not so exhausted and thinking of how many minutes of sleep I'm giving up.

I know it's not permanent, and there's just as good a chance that tonight she'll wake up every hour as there is that she'll sleep 'through', but wow... I see hope on the horizon!!

AND, when she woke up at 5, she was dry diaper, so I took her and she peed a little, then when she woke up again, she was still dry, so I went and she pottied again! She didn't go in her diaper until I was back in the room asleep and DH was watching her. She -never- wakes up dry from nighttime sleep, though she has been doing it for naps a little bit more. Usually in the morning, she's soaked through or almost soaked through her diaper and her sleeper too.

Gah! I'm just so ecstatic I don't know what to do with myself. Carrie how did Finn's night go? As good as the one before? Oh I'm so crossing my fingers for you!

Kat-- It will come!! Your turn WILL come. I have hope now! Babies can sleep! lol


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Hmm, I don't think Nora ever exposed me in public, come to think of it...Anyway, if you're thining more of toddler age, then it's totally manageable with redirection. Don't freak out about that!

JJ - Glad you got some SLEEP!! Honest to goodness sleep feels so wonderful, doesn't it?! And there is nothing like that hope that it'll continue indefinitely!

Ugh. Our night was not so smooth! On and off nursing from about midnight til 3 am and then he just wouldn't resettle. When I rocked him he was grinding his teething. Ugh. Gave him some motrin, passed him to Chris, who has a cold so he's acting like he's just about dying from radiation poisoning (why are men such babies -- no, WORSE than babies when they are sick???) who lasted about 40 min with him before he passed him back to me. Thanks dear. So, Finn was up from about 3 til 5 when the motrin finally kicked in. He nursed to sleep and he and I slept on the couch until 830. I feel ok though with 2 cups of coffee in me now!

All four of his top teeth are moving down and are *right there*. The left incisor (??) has one tiny dot thru. Ugh. Hopefully them all coming thru at once will mean we get a break from teething for a bit!

MW- how many teeth does Dylan have now?

Kat - does Norah have any yet?


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I thought you might be concerned about the pulling up of the shirt in public. I am so over that that most of the time I don't even notice it anymore.
















for T sleeping so much!

Carrie ~ He has 8 teeth. I don't think he'll get any more for a while. I've been trying to figure out what's supposed to be next, 2 year molars or canines. Do you know? I can't really find anything on that.

I'm trying so hard not to lose it on Sean. He's being all pissy about the house being a mess. So far, he has said that we are gross, that he would be embarrassed to have anyone over and he can't live like we do (implying, again, that we are gross). I told him that it's kind of hard to want to help me when he insults me. I also said that maybe the rest of us should just pack up all of our stuff and get rid of it so we won't be in his way. I think he got it because after cooling down he rather nicely got the boys involved in helping him. I also talked to them about helping Daddy and putting their things away more so that Daddy wouldn't get so upset in the first place. They are much more willing to do that sort of thing when it's presented as a way of being nice and thoughtful and caring toward someone else.

He's also on this moral high ground kick about Ryan's girlfriend. Apparently, she's married to a Marine. They are separated and getting a divorce but Sean's all worked up about them dating while she's still married. He said that if the Marine were doing that he would be obligated to report him for infidelity. When I said she's not the Marine and they are getting divorced and it's really none of his business he said it was all the same in his mind. Of course, it wasn't an issue for him when he was dating me while I was still married.







He looks at me like I'm supposed to do something about it. They are both adults and can do what they want. Again, it's not my business. I told him that if he's that concerned about Ryan dating a married woman, then he needs to talk to Ryan about it. He said he was planning on it but hasn't actually done it yet. He made excuses about never seeing Ryan because they have different schedules. That's what he always does. If it were really that important to him and he really was wanting to talk to Ryan about it rather than just getting me to agree with him, he would have found a way. He could at least text Ryan. Bleh! I don't want to hear about his problems and issues with my kids as if I'm supposed to do something about them, especially when I disagree with him.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Yeah, that's a bit more meddlesome than I think a parent has power over a grown child. I understand maybe expressing some concern to you quietly, but not in the sense of "we need to stop this". Unless he knew she was toxic, it's just... not a parent's business. (Which obviously you agree about). It would be different if she was still married and -together-, but if the divorce is in progress... meh.

This is from the orajel website... haven't done any research of my own though:


__ https://www.pinterest.com/pin/176203404141395913/


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Thanks. I saw that Carrie posted that on FB. So, I was right that D should get molars next but they are 1 year molars rather than 2 years.

His GF is now legally separated. They have to wait a year to be legally divorced but they are not together at all.

We went to the pool today. I was basically there long enough to put sunscreen on D before they closed it for thunderstorms.


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Haha! Sean and I both just realized after opening a card from his dad that our anniversary is tomorrow! We will have been married 12 years! According to my dad, we're beating the odds because most divorces happen in the 11th year of marriage.

Ryan said he'd babysit for us tomorrow so we can go out. I don't know what we'll do, probably just have dinner. I think we'll probably take D with us, too, but he's pretty chill. We'll still be able to relax and talk to each other without the wild ones there.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Norah has no teeth.

And girlfriend getti g a dIvorce - meh. NBD

Pool today, hope everyone is wore out enough to sleep well.

Norah sleeps fine. I need to work on getting myself to bed earlier. Hard.


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

He's not upset about the GF getting a divorce. He's upset that Ryan is dating her while she's still legally married, especially to a Marine. If he new the Marine and new that the Marine was seeing someone else, he would be obligated to report that to the Marine's CO. He's applying the morality of that to Ryan's GF, which I think is redic. She is under no obligation or restriction from the Marine Corps, even if she weren't separated.


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> Norah has no teeth.
> And girlfriend getti g a dIvorce - meh. NBD
> ...


This seems like you typed it on a phone or ipad!









GO TO BED WOMAN!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Haha! Sean and I both just realized after opening a card from his dad that our anniversary is tomorrow! We will have been married 12 years! According to my dad, we're beating the odds because most divorces happen in the 11th year of marriage.
> Ryan said he'd babysit for us tomorrow so we can go out. I don't know what we'll do, probably just have dinner. I think we'll probably take D with us, too, but he's pretty chill. We'll still be able to relax and talk to each other without the wild ones there.


HA! Congrats on 11 years! If you go out, have a good time!!


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Ryan's GF came over today with a breastfeeding question for a friend. I guess her friend has been having difficulty and been getting bad advice. Her ped told her to give the baby bottles of formula at night. Her mom told her to give the baby a bottle of formula every 2 hours and nurse every hour or something like that. As soon as I started talking, she and Ryan started laughing. Apparently, Ryan had told them the exact same things but they didn't trust him and wanted to ask me directly instead.







that guy for knowing stuff like that.


----------



## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

OMG! I am so sorry to jump in and no personals, but I have been so busy lately!

There is a freaking wildfire burning basically in my backyard, 0% contained. Ugh, all around me is being evacuated so keep me in your thoughts/prayers.








ya guys! I'll keep you updated when I can, probably via FB


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

BTW - I am not *really* worried about my house burning down. I am not right next to forest, but just worried about being evacuated.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

be safe!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Kat- me too! She goes to bed, and then I'm just so blissed out at having alone quiet time, that I savor it, and all of a sudden I realize she's been in bed for 3 hours, and that's sleep I'm missing out on... but I don't want to give up my personal time either. It keeps me sane as much as the sleep does.

That is awesome about Ryan knowing that much abou breastfeeding. I know I get so proud when I overhear DH answering questions or tlaking to someone about birth or AP or something like that.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *annie2186*
> 
> OMG! I am so sorry to jump in and no personals, but I have been so busy lately!
> 
> ...


I saw that on FB! Crazy! Do you have stuff packed if you need to leave quickly? I can't imagine rush packing for that many littles.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

B safe! That fire is crazy!

Yes, iPhone typing, how'd you guess?? LOL

yay for Ryan giving good breastfeeding advice!

We slept awesome last night. Many more of those please!

I am out of coffee creamer, boo!


----------



## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

OMG, I think Tenley needs to come to my house and teach a sleeping seminar to Ava! So.Flippin.Tired. Here's how her night was last night...

8:30 PM: asleep after going in at 8 PM to lay down for bottle and walking to sleep

9:15 PM: awake, back to sleep after being walked again for 10 mins or so

11 PM: awake, bottle and walking back to sleep

11:45 PM: I go in to lay down and she eats on and off for the next two hours

1:30 AM: bottle empty so I go out and get a new bottle. she finally settles around 2 AM

4 AM: Awake again but no more milk so I walk her around to get her back to sleep so I can go pump

4:10 AM: sit down to pump

4:15 AM: Awake again so I make a bottle with what I have so far and get her back to sleep

4:25 AM: sit down to pump again

4:30 AM: Awake again so I go back in with more milk

4:40 AM: sit down to pump again

4:55 AM: go lay back down

7:30 AM: Ava is awake for the day

Running on fumes here and I'm at work...


----------



## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Oh Lauri  I feel for you, but I can't even imagine doing it with pumping added in. I know we've all said it before, but I give you so much kudos for exclusively pumping, you really are a rockstar!

That's our normal type pattern for sleep, it's just this week she's deciding to be wonder baby. Last night was wakeups every 2.5 hours... but her bedtime routine was also off, so that makes sense. Tonight was back on track, and she went down really easy... we'll see how the night goes though. I'm trying to just take it night by night and not get my hopes up, but if this is the new normal... holy *&@^ I think I may survive! lol

Just so I can say I said it, I'm calling that AF is due July 2nd-ish. I had SO much EWCF the last few days that I feel like I could practically guarantee if we DTD I'd be pregnant. I've also had strong O pains. Sigh. I knew it was coming, but would have loved if I was one of those women who had a year or more without any signs of fertility. Seriously though, she's been "on" solids for like 2 weeks! And nowhere near STTN yet.

I know it's not as exciting for most of you guys, but we have been making EC leaps and bounds, and I am so proud of her! The night she slept through the night, she also stayed dry all night through! And then today, she was dry from 930am until well... bedtime actually. She was a little bit damp when we woke up from her nap, but she was also covered in sweat, so I'm not actually sure it was pee. She pottied at my SIL's house too. I am just sooo excited for her. We're even looking at switching back to the small diaper inserts for the day, because they're less bulky, and she's not soaking her diapers as much.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Ugh, Annie. It's got to get better soon.

Dylan has been sleeping pretty well. He's been waking often but not staying awake. The weekend has been harder because Sean sleeps with us. I think he's crowded so he's more restless. I really need to make Sean get a twin frame so we can put the bed up next to ours.

JJ ~ You reminded me that Dylan will be 11 months tomorrow and I still don't have







!







I told Sean again tonight it would be nice if I could keep nursing long enough to never get







and go straight into menopause.

Dylan has also been going longer with a dry diaper and waking from naps dry a lot. I wish I could remember to take him to the potty then. That would be the perfect time. Do you wait a few minutes or take her to the potty as soon as she gets up? I almost caught a poop today but I was a little slow in reacting to his cues.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

That would be perfect if AF stayed away long enough for you! Talk about decreasing a bit of stress with the whole fertile instincts to BD again, even though you know it's not a good idea! lol

I take her as soon as she wakes up. If I wait even 5 minutes, she's usually gone already. Those are by far the easiest potties, because it's your bodies instincts to go to the bathroom once you get up, and because she's totally relaxed at that point, so it's barely even a conscious decision for her, it's just instinctual to release your bladder upon waking.

Those of you with the older babies-- what kind of babbling are they doing? None of my business, I know, but my nephew is 13 months, and from what I've seen... completely non-verbal, and expressionless. He always has the exact same look on his face, never smiles or laughs, or anything. And he doesn't make almost any noise either... he will grunt every now and then, but that's it, otherwise he's silent. It's very weird, but I don't have a lot of experience with that age, so I don't know how 'off' it is. I'm going to ask my speech path friend, but I know there's also a difference between book knowledge and 'been there' knowledge.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Working on posting my birth story with photos right now. It'll probably take several days... Wait to post until I'm all done, or post teasers as I finish? (right now I'm done about 2/10 pages...)


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I'm working on my birth story too. I want to have it done by Ava's birthday. I say wait until it's complete and then post. Or do you mean you're posting it on your blog? WRT your friend's baby, he may be more expressive one on one. Ava is a chatterbox but when there is a lot going on, she mostly observes. And she doesn't cry if she's tired and we're out, she just gets stone faced. So maybe he's different at home?


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Norah is very vocal. lots of babbles, screeching, hollering. Little girl wants to be heard! Gabe wasn't qyuite as vocal, but still babbled a good bit. My sister (who thinks she knows everything bc she's got a degree in early childhood) is concerned bc he doesn't speak really in full sentences yet. He's just starting to put 2-3 words together. His comprehension is great though, and his vocabulary and skills grow daily, so I'm not concerned.

Sleep - it's been better here. working on going to bed earlier by pushing kids bed time up. Last night we started at 9:30. so they were done by 10:30. I'd like to go to 9, but that's not always feasible when DH works late. He's not the next few days, so we may do it anyway.

I have all these AF like cramps. I need it to go ahead and show up, so I can get it over with! ugh.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

The not smiling or laughing thing would be a red flag for me more than the babbling, tbh. I hope it's nothing and he's just a serious little guy.

Ugh, Lauri. Woman, that is a ROUGH NIGHT. I'm at the point now where, like I said, if it's within an hour or so of him having nursed, I don't offer milk straight away. If it's an option for you, you could try the same. Just rock, pat, shush. It's less milk for you to have to pump, and maybe it'll help her be less dependent on milk for every settle. Idk if you want to try, just throwing it out there. Not nightweaning, mind you, just trying something else in between feedings, you know?

We seem to be in a holding pattern of one good night followed by a crappy one. Last night, he woke 3 times (totally doable) and nursed back to sleep each time (thank GOD!). I'm still fighting this long drawn out cold from hell and DH is gone this week so I need him to be a good sleeper for at least another night! LOL!

I actually have been so tired I've been falling asleep putting DD to bed. Oh man, her bed is so comfortable. I wish I could just sleep in there with her all night. She doesn't wake up and I love seeing her little sweet sleeping face.

Hesitant to tell you guys this (if I didn't already) b/c I know, I'm an idiot, but man -- ever since we removed artificial sweeteners from our diets (DD's too) she is a different child. Sweet, non confrontational, not grumpy, not moody. She still doesn't eat a ton, but that's besides the point. I feel like her behaviour has done a complete 180. She's also closer to turning 4, but the change was so quick it had to be related. I'm so glad. I think she's a happier person. She's so affectionate now!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

JJ ~ I can't really remember what a 13 month old is expected to be doing. There is such a wide range of normal. I've have read many times that boys are slower with vocabulary than girls so it might not be fair to compare him to any girls.

Dylan makes a lot of noises but I wouldn't call it babbling. He doesn't do any, "ga ga," or "ba ba" or anything like that. He does a lot of, "oh' and "uh" sounds. He screeches. HSe makes these, "sst" sounds a lot, too. He very expressive with his face. But when we are out a lot of times he doesn't respond to strangers at all. He just stares at them. When at Sean's change of command ceremony, one of Sean's friends who had never seen Dylan picked him up and held him for a really long time. Dylan just stared at him the entire time. He didn't cry or fuss but he also didn't smile or talk or play with him in any way.

Kellen wouldn't talk to other people even when he was 3 and 4. He used to just stare at everyone, too, or give them the stink face. Kellen wasn't talking in sentences when he was 2. I remember talking to almost everyone about it. I was sort of worried but not really worried enough to do anything about it. Now we can't get him to stop talking.







The only issue is that he's still hard to understand. He can't pronounce back of the throat consonants like "g" and "k". They still sound like "d" and "t". He drops the "s" at the beginning of words. He says, "me" instead of "I". But, like Kat said about Gabe, I can recognize progress and development so I not too worried about it. The only thing that's really bothersome is that Kellen gets really frustrated and upset sometimes when we can't understand him.

Dylan only nursed once last night between 11 to 6, I think. I don't actually remember him nursing but I woke up with half my shirt pulled up.









I forgot to mention that Sean and I actually got to go out last night without any kids. Dylan fell asleep just before 6 so I felt comfortable leaving him with Ryan. Ryan's girlfriend came over, too, and she's really good with him so I wasn't worried about him being left sitting on the floor crying.

Sean wants to get a vasectomy. He said he needs my signature to do it. I know it's his body and I don't really have any right to refuse but I don't know if I can sign that paper. We got in an argument about it last night. I got angry because he acted as if the only reason I had ever given him for not getting a vas was so that I could have another baby. He said he doesn't remember anything I said about my concerns about whether or not it's really safe and doesn't have any negative long term effects. It's like he doesn't really listen to me. He must be really mad at me because I didn't set up my coffee this morning like he's been doing since he got back from VA.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Carrie ~ We cross-posted. That's interesting about Nora and the artificial sweetener. I don't like my kids to have any of that but I do drink diet soda sometimes. I probably don't need to since I don't drink a lot of soda, usually one 12 oz. can a day.









JJ ~ I forgot to comment on your birth story. Are you talking about posting to your blog? Sneak peaks might be nice. 10 pages is a lot to read.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Artifical sweetners are awful IMO. Glad you cut them out! I totally believe it was affecting her behavior. So that sleep schedule was two nights ago. Last night was WORSE! At one point, if she had a regular crib I probably would have left her to cry.  So glad I don't have that as an option because now I don't trust myself at night. Yesterday, DH took all five kids to our neice's graduation party while I worked. It was an hour away so DD spent a decent amount of time in the carseat. She must have been carried around a lot too because she had way too many movements left in her when I got home from work at 9:30 pm. I fed her some food because she hadn't eaten much at the party, gave her a quick bath and tried to put her down. No dice. She finally went to sleep at Midnight after I put her in the wrap, turned off the lights in the living room and danced around singing along to Norah Jones. I expected her to crash. Ummm wrongo. I stopped counting after the 5th wake up before 3 AM. Finally brought her next to me even though she normally hates that and she snuggled up to sleep. I was in a crap position though so now I feel like I've been beat up. And the big kids are home all week now. So help me god if someone disrupts our nap this morning.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I finally wrote out Norah's - I am so glad I did. And Gabe's. Gabes brought a lot of latent anger to the surface, bc it just reminds me how much having a c-section for your first birth colors and changes every single subsequent birth. *sigh* not much to be done about it.

I don't think Gabe gets much artificial sweetener. He doesn't get anything diet. The very rare times he sips our soda, we have root beer or sprite, so no caffeine either. I need to work on less junk food in the house, but it's hard when Wayne likes to snack on it.

Vasectomy - I feel in general it is safer and more effective than any female surgical steriliztion procedure. My dad had that done back in 1990, and for most of our friends it is what they choose to do when they are done having children. I think we will likely go the same route.

Hooray for time without kids! Shoot, going out with just one is fantastic!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> Kellen wouldn't talk to other people even when he was 3 and 4. He used to just stare at everyone, too, or give them the stink face. Kellen wasn't talking in sentences when he was 2. I remember talking to almost everyone about it. I was sort of worried but not really worried enough to do anything about it. Now we can't get him to stop talking.
> 
> 
> ...


Oh this is interesting to me. Nora does a few things that I wonder if I need to/should correct or just wait out. For example, she says her instead of she (aw, her's crying) and she also doesn't make the s sound in the beginning of words, it's always an f. So spin is fin, school is fool.

She also isn't very kind to strangers/groups. She's introverted so she will let me talk for her (which...I feel funny doing, honestly...) and just remain shy or whimper. It's just her personality I suppose.

Re: the vasectomy issue. It's not as though you're telling him to do it. You're more like approving of him doing something he wants to do already. There are risks involved with anything, but there are far less risks to that procedure than to, say, a tubal, etc.

JJ - would love sneak peeks! I love birth stories and can't wait to read yours.

Lauri - I've SO been there. So been there. This WILL pass. She must be on the verge of something BIG. It honestly sounds like what I just went thru with Finn and how I got to my limit and started looking into nightweaning. Which I never would have thought of to do before age 1.

AFM - took the kids to panera for lunch and then poked around party city. I've decided Finn's party theme! It's going to be pirates! Oh it's going to be ADORABLE!!!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Oh, pirates does sound adorable. Are you going to have a big party?

Dylan is 11 months today! He weighs 21.2 lbs. (21 lbs., 3.2 oz.). I haven't measured his length yet.

I know it's not right for me to refuse to sign that paper for Sean. It's his body and he should be able to do what he wants with it, even if I disagree. The whole thing just freaks me out. I can't explain it all. As I've been thinking about it today, I've realized that there's part of me that thinks it's gross and is not sure I will be able to look at or think of him the same. That doesn't make any sense but there it is.

At 3yo, I wouldn't worry at all about that kind of speech issue or behavior. I talk for my kids a lot. But just last week I left all 3 boys at the park with one of the other homeschool moms while I ran home to get some toys for Ethan and Kellen. When I got back she said that both of them talked to her the entire time I was gone.







This from one kid who wouldn't even talk to the neighbors that he saw almost every day from the time he was 3.5 to 6 and another kid who didn't really talk until after he was 2. I think a lot of it has to do with the personality of the other person, too. Some people are really loud and aggressive, especially with kids, quizing them and demanding responses. It would be nice if they would just say, "Hi."


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Ugh, Lauri. Woman, that is a ROUGH NIGHT. I'm at the point now where, like I said, if it's within an hour or so of him having nursed, I don't offer milk straight away. If it's an option for you, you could try the same. Just rock, pat, shush. It's less milk for you to have to pump, and maybe it'll help her be less dependent on milk for every settle. Idk if you want to try, just throwing it out there. Not nightweaning, mind you, just trying something else in between feedings, you know?


Yeah I've started doing that too. I've noticed during her naps during the day that she will fully wake up after her first sleep cycle because she now knows how to sit up on her own from laying down but if I go right in and walk her around for a few minutes, she falls back asleep for another 45 mins to an hour. And she doesn't need a bottle to go back to sleep like that. So at night, if it's been less than 2 hours since I fed her, I try to walk her around first. If she doesn't stay asleep when I put her back down, I know she really is hungry.

I'm still traumatized from last night! It was rough! I asked the kids if they carried her around a lot yesterday and they said that the party was really crowded and there wasn't any room for her to get down and play so that's part of why she was so squirmy! But she was seriously running around at midnight like someone had given her caffeine or something. She would go to the boys' door and bang on it and start yelling. What the heck? It was like she was drunk or something. She was so exhausted this morning though that she slept from 10 AM-12:45 PM and I don't think she moved the whole time. The big kids were great and stayed quiet so we could both sleep.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I couldn't sign for my DH to get a vasectomy either. Even if I didn't have a religious issue with it, I don't think it needs to be done. It's an unnecessary medical procedure. I feel the same way about tubal ligation. Hysterectomies are different because sometimes those are needed to stop severe bleeding issues but that's usually rare.

Pirate theme is awesome! You guys will have so much fun with that!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Oh, pirates does sound adorable. Are you going to have a big party?
> Dylan is 11 months today! He weighs 21.2 lbs. (21 lbs., 3.2 oz.). I haven't measured his length yet.


Not huge, maybe 15-20 ppl, some small kids.

Happy 11 months, Dylan!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> ! But she was seriously running around at midnight like someone had given her caffeine or something. She would go to the boys' door and bang on it and start yelling. What the heck? It was like she was drunk or something.


Ha! Man! Maybe she was overtired and just going bananas!? Nora used to do that when she was little! If you didn't catch her at just the right moment, it was like someone wound her battery back up and she was go-go-go for another chunk of the night!

Idk guys...if DH really wanted a vasectomy I'd sign off. I guess I just don't feel as strongly as you guys do. Lots of things/procedures/surgeries are "unnecessary" but if a person wants to do it, then they should be able to, right? And a vas isn't hurting anyone else (unlike if a woman elects to have a section, ukwim?).


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Annie ~ I agree. I told dh it was unnecessary but he just got all pissy with me.

Carrie ~ I agree with you, too, sort of. He should be able to do whatever he wants with his own body. I don't know that it won't hurt someone else, which is part of my issue with it. I don't trust that the risk of any serious complications is minimal to nonexistent. What if he gets prostrate cancer because it and dies at 50? That would certainly hurt all of us. Ethan would just be 18. Kellen and Dylan would still be minors. His dad has prostate cancer. He's going through his 2nd treatment for it right now. Cancer runs in his family like crazy. His mom died from breast cancer. His maternal grand mother died from lung cancer. His sister had cervical cancer when she was in her early 20s.

I just don't know. Since it's not necessary, why take any risk?

Dylan is asleep. He fell asleep with dh while I was out with Ethan and Kellen. I don't know if this is a good thing or not. He skipped his 2nd nap so I figured this would happen. I just hope he doesn't stir until we all are going to bed and I can immediately lay down with him and get him to go back to sleep. Otherwise, I might be up very late.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I would totally sign off on it. But maybe that's bc I don't want to chart forever, and in my heart of hearts, once we have our third, I am done. And for seething perm, I am way cooler with a vasectomy than a tubal ligation or essure. But that's just us.

Pirates are awesome! I wish we lived close enough to come!

*yawn*


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Ha! Man! Maybe she was overtired and just going bananas!? Nora used to do that when she was little! If you didn't catch her at just the right moment, it was like someone wound her battery back up and she was go-go-go for another chunk of the night!
> 
> Idk guys...if DH really wanted a vasectomy I'd sign off. I guess I just don't feel as strongly as you guys do. Lots of things/procedures/surgeries are "unnecessary" but if a person wants to do it, then they should be able to, right? And a vas isn't hurting anyone else (unlike if a woman elects to have a section, ukwim?).


Yeah, we've noticed lately that Tenley's sleep window is miniscule, a matter of a few minutes, and then she's back on the upswing and won't sleep for an hour or more.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> I would totally sign off on it. But maybe that's bc I don't want to chart forever, and in my heart of hearts, once we have our third, I am done. And for seething perm, I am way cooler with a vasectomy than a tubal ligation or essure. But that's just us.


If it were a choice between the two, then I agree that he would have the procedure, not me. However, I'm not supportive of the decision either. Beyond normal surgical complications there are also several other issues I've heard a lot about that would concern me with a vasectomy. But in the next 10 years or os, I can admit that my primary reason not to would be that nagging fear that I wasn't sure we were done. I know they can be reversed, but it's not like it's easy, you know? A lot easier 10 years down the road to stop charting, or take out an IUD, etc etc.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Ok, part one of the posted birth story. http://thingsthat-shine.blogspot.ca/p/birth-story-of-thb.html I had it all written out already, now I'm just going through and matching it with the photos-- and let me tell you- it's hilarious realizing how off some of the timelines and events were in my head! Things in the wrong order, things that I had written took 90 minutes, which actually took only 15 or so... So it's taking a lot of editing and re-ordering things again! Hopefully tomorrow I'll be able to put in a bit more time and finish the birth, and then the immediate postpartum!

The current post is 'safe'. There's one shot that shows nipple, but it's pretty zoomed out. The next post... not so much. It will start with an on-her-way-to-crowning shot.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

You almost make me wish I had taken birth photos! Almost. I know it was not pretty (and I was Naked once I hit transition) my post-birth ones are ghastly enough! LOL

Wonderful so far!

And really, it shows what a difference good nurses make.

BC - I had thought about an IUD. DH and I had nearly made up our minds, but it gets very mixed reviews, and the thought of it turrning me into a crazy person (one of the biggest complaints about either Mirena or Paraguard) kinda freaked both of us out. And we just aren't willling to do anything hormonal . . .so yeah. charting is where it's at for now.

Re: Cancer risk. That could happen regardless of whether or not he has it done. Especially with his family history. In my brief google research (because I had not known there was any kind of considered connection - even though I know several men that have gone through the procedure) it seems having a vasectomy mightly slightly raise the risk bc there is more testosterone in the blood stream. But you can do things to still help reduce the risk, like eat tomatoes, take saw palmetto supplements, and excersice. yeah, it's an elective, unnecessary procedure. But - you both need to make a decision you can live with at the end of the day.

Man I am hungry. and I need coffee.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> I would totally sign off on it. But maybe that's bc I don't want to chart forever, and in my heart of hearts, once we have our third, I am done. And for seething perm, I am way cooler with a vasectomy than a tubal ligation or essure. But that's just us.


I am definitely done having babies so that's not the issue. It's not a decision between him doing something or me doing something, either. I wouldn't do anything permanent to my body. I wouldn't even do anything "temporary" to my body. There are ways to prevent pg that involve any of that or charting. I don't really mind charting, though, because I find it interesting and helpful in and of itself. It's nice to know exactly when to expect







. I wouldn't have any idea when to expect it without charting. It would be a lot easier to use FAM to prevent pg if I had short, regular cycles. I wouldn't even have to chart then.

And, yeah, there is a huge risk already of him getting cancer. That's why it makes no sense to me to do anything that might increase that risk even slightly. Again, an unnecessary medical procedure that could have very dire consequences.

Vases aren't that easy to reverse. I mean, you can have it reversed but it doesn't always work well. I'm not even sure if it works well in the majority of cases. I knew too many people on FF who were dealing with IF after a vas reversal. It was really sad.

I asked him yesterday why we couldn't just use condoms. He said that was fine with him. He hadn't suggested that because he thought I didn't like using them. Another example of him not really listening and paying attention to what I'm telling him.







How could he possibly think that I'd be more agreeable to him getting a vas than us using condoms? The other good thing about that is that we can always change our minds if it's not working. If he doesn't get a vas right away, it's always an option later. So, we will use condoms for now and see how it goes.

I haven't looked at the birth story yet. I was naked most of the time I was in labor with D. No one took any photos and am glad.







I do have photos of E crowning and I have video of K emerging under water.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Yeah, condoms are not bad. we do that during fertile times . . . but again, IDK if we want to spend the next 10-20 years doing that. Glad that the 2 of you are in aggreement though!

I would love a water birth. I am jealous of your shower time, JJ. VBACing robs you of so much. For next time, as much as I'd love it, I would have a hard time finding a midwife I trusted to do an HBAC. and I don't want to go unassisted. *sigh*

I am off next week! hooray! unfortunately, it comes at a bad time, $$ wise, so we will be having a stay-cation. But there is nothing wrong with that. What do ya'll do for the 4th?


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> I would love a water birth. I am jealous of your shower time, JJ. VBACing robs you of so much.


Depends on where you do it. In a hospital, yes, but not at home. Kellen was a VBAC underwater birth. Dylan could have been if I had wanted to get in the tub.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Because of the mandates (not laws) against homebirth midwives attending VBACs (as we are not considered low risk) most of the reputable midwives will not attend an HBAC. There is a birth center an hour or so away that is staffed with an OB and therefore can attend them. whenever that time comes for us (hopefull not for a couple of years) I need to decide whether the drive would be worth it. One of the things that's been on my mind recently. First we need to get back on our feet financially speaking .

I am waiting on AF to show up. I seriously hate long cycles. Before I went on birth control, they were regular. Granted every 35 days as opposed to 28, but they were regular. I am on day 53 here. last cycle was 53 days. so, hopefully this one wont be much longer.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I think I'm in long cycle land, too and it's very boring. I'm on cd24 with no sign of O yet. I'm wondering if that AF was a fluke? I stopped temping and am going to chart cm until I see fertile signs again (using protection if we dtd of course...otherwise, not a very smart thing to do...).


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

What makes them reputable vs. not? Many would say that the CPMs that practice here in NC are not reputable because they are breaking the law. Both of my homebirths were attended by CPMs and I cannot imagine getting better care from anyone else. My mother was very impressed with how they handled things, too. I would drive an hour to have the birth I wanted if that were my only option. It really sucks that birth options are limited by money. So wrong!

Long cycles suck. Regular 35 day cycles would still be doable without charting, though. You could just abstain or use condoms or whatever from cd17-25 and any days you had fertile CF. Or would it be from cd11 to cd25? If cd17 is the earliest you could O, I guess you'd have to use precautions from 6 days before that, right?


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Reputable = well informed, educated, with lots of experience. Some cpm's are- they are legal here in sc- some are not. The couple local cpm's I contacted last time that I knew others had good experience with, would not attend. Now that I have had a successful VBAC, idk if they might change their minds.

See, I have never charted with regular cycles, do don't know when I would O. I hope maybe once Norah weans they will be regular, but that's probably a year or more away.

I need to work on potty training Gabe. He is more consistently telling me once he has pooped. I need him to tell me before hand!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> Now that I have had a successful VBAC, idk if they might change their minds.


It may be. There was one MW in Hawaii who wouldn't attend my first VBAC homebirth and one that would.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> See, I have never charted with regular cycles, do don't know when I would O. I hope maybe once Norah weans they will be regular, but that's probably a year or more away.


You don't need to chart with regular cycles. You can follow the general rules about how long lps and the fertile window can be. That's how I got those numbers for a 35 day cycle. A normal lp can be anywhere from 10-18 days so you subtract 10 and 18 from 35 to find the range of days during which you could O. Then since you can get pg from BD up to 6 days before O, it would probably be safest to take precaution beginning 6 days before the earliest you would most likely O. If you had a 28 days cycle, the days to use precautions would be cd4-18.

If you want to be more precise, you could chart a few cycles to determine your individual lp length. That would narrow the window in which you had to use precautions. For example, my normal lp is 12 days but it has been as long as 14 days so my fertile window for a 28 day cycle would be cd8-16. For a 35 day cycle, it would be cd15-23.


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> I need to work on potty training Gabe. He is more consistently telling me once he has pooped. I need him to tell me before hand!


He'll get there!

Chris left this morning til Friday night. We need to keep busy! I think I'll go over to my MILs with the kids in a bit and let them play and maybe we'll have lunch there. Otherwise...maybe I'll take them to target and shop for a bit. Not sure. I do also need to run to get more wine but idk if I feel like doing that with both kids with me.









Oh - meant to mention this - Finn slept thru but woke just before 5 am, babbling and laughing. I thought oh no. He' s up for the day!? But I shushed and rubbed the spot b/w his eyes like I do when he's going down for nap (though he's nursing then) and did that for a few minutes. He rolled and smiled at me, and I peeked at him a little and saw him literally look at me, close his eyes and try to sleep....crack his eyes open and then close them again. He was TRYING to go back to sleep. And he DID! He fell back asleep on his own! It's so wonderful to see. I really have high hopes that sleep won't be as horrible for the next 2-3 years as it was for DD. I don't know for certain, but I do have hope!


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Hehe, Carrie, too cute! Ryan used like to be rubbed down his nose like that but Dylan will not have it!

JJ ~ I just skimmed your birth story. Hopefully, sometime I'll have time to read it more. I did want to say that that out of control feeling you said you had toward the end, during transition?, is normal. I felt that same way with Ethan, Kellen and Dylan. With Dylan isn't wasn't as long or quite as bad because I knew it was normal by that time but I still felt it. I remember standing in the doorway of my bathroom sort of swinging from side to side in and out of the bathroom saying, "I don't know what to do. Help me!" That's when all of us knew it was almost over.

I wonder with the pushing if part of the reason it took so long or felt so exhausting was because you started to actively push after being told it was ok rather than waiting for your body to push. That's one of the reason I prefer not to have my dilation checked. Then there's no expectation in my mind or anyone else's that I should be pushing. When it happens, it just happens and there's no stopping it.


----------



## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Carrie I took Tenley in the Beco into the liquor store with me last time I went. Funny, I didn't get carded  lol

I see what you're getting at MW with not having to chart, but then using those guidelines, you're assuming that she'll never have an 'off' cycle, which we all knows happens. It's fine if you're ok with the added risk, but it does introduce extra risk to it!

And yeah, I've definitely heard stories of midwifes who are completely legal, but also completely a hazard to anyone's health, and the practice of midwifery in general. There's trusting birth, and then there's being reckless. Unfortunately most good ones err heavily on the side of caution, which sucks when you're right on the line, but as opposed to the alternative- them getting sloppy and allowing things that aren't safe... It's a hard decision.

An online friend recently had an -"oops" that wasn't an oops- UC. Her midwife actually talked to her and thanked her for doing it, because she agreed with how hands off the mama wanted her to be-- but knew that it teased at the line of legality with -how- hands off she was allowed to be. In her heart, she agreed- but the legal and medical side of her told her that she was risking getting in big trouble. And then they have to look past that too at not just Will -I- get in trouble, but will I do a disservice to midwifery by reinforcing the belief that midwives are unsafe and a bad choice. KWIM?

Re: The birth story and photos. I am so so so glad that she took them, especially since my recollections were so off. I'm not as impressed with the technical quality of the photos, but the emotion and that was still captured, which means a lot to me. And it's funny, because I had packed like 3 different outfits and a bathing suit to wear while laboring, but got to the hospital and couldn't care less. But then I looked back at the photos and wished I had! I hate that I'm wearing a hospital gown in all of them. And hate that most of the shower ones won't be seen because I didn't put my bathing suit top back on.

And yes, the good nurses made such a difference. I think had I been on LDRP right from the get go, it would have made such a different experience. Going through the story again though does make me think about next time, and how hard I'm going to fight tooth and nail to get my midwife and a homebirth. I'm a little sad about giving up my unlimited shower (Yes Kat, that was the ONE thing about the hospital birth I was ok with!), but it would be so worth it to be at home. It's funny though, I've never felt a strong desire to have a water birth. I liked the idea of laboring in our hot tub at home, but was much more excited for the running water of the shower.

Canada day here- I think we're going to go out to the lake. My father wants to take the boat to the next town over where they do fireworks, and watch from the boat. I'm iffy though, because it means driving out there at about 630, getting there about 730... which is normally when Ten goes to sleep... and then getting on the boat around 830 or 9, and being on the boat until probably close to midnight. On one hand, I don't want to disrupt her sleep. On the other hand... I tell myself she probably won't sleep at home anyways, so why am I worried?


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Hehe, Carrie, too cute! Ryan used like to be rubbed down his nose like that but Dylan will not have it!
> JJ ~ I just skimmed your birth story. Hopefully, sometime I'll have time to read it more. I did want to say that that out of control feeling you said you had toward the end, during transition?, is normal. I felt that same way with Ethan, Kellen and Dylan. With Dylan isn't wasn't as long or quite as bad because I knew it was normal by that time but I still felt it. I remember standing in the doorway of my bathroom sort of swinging from side to side in and out of the bathroom saying, "I don't know what to do. Help me!" That's when all of us knew it was almost over.
> I wonder with the pushing if part of the reason it took so long or felt so exhausting was because you started to actively push after being told it was ok rather than waiting for your body to push. That's one of the reason I prefer not to have my dilation checked. Then there's no expectation in my mind or anyone else's that I should be pushing. When it happens, it just happens and there's no stopping it.


Yes absolutely. In hindsight, I was like "duh! That was totally transition" but during, I just didn't know what was going on. My body was bearing down, and instead of going with it, I just got scared. Looking back, I think it was trying to move her down so she was in a better position.

And definitely on the waiting to push. That's one of my biggest regrets, because I was so eager for it to be over, that I just pushed and pushed without waiting until I couldn't help but push. Like yes, my body was bearing down, but I think I would have been better served to just try to squat more, and wait until I couldn't stand to not push. It's funny how all the knowledge doesn't help when you're in the throes of it! lol For the dilation though, I really felt i needed to be checked. The nurses were great about not offering or pushing it, but I asked a few times because hearing the increasing numbers helped me to feel like I was getting somewhere.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Carrie - that's fantastic!

Get more wine! yay! and I can't go in a liquor store with Gabe . . . dude would break stuff. Now, the wine aisle in the grocery store, yes, bc he is cart contained then. - trip to whole foods! - I can't wait until we have one.

I think I would chart until I noticed a good pattern. But that is a ways away.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I think they'll behave for two minutes in the liquor store, and mama needs her reisling! In NJ they don't sell alcohol in food stores, not even at whole foods! Have to hit the liquor store. It's right next to target at least!

JJ, go for it. One night isn't going to hurt her! You deserve it!

All this birth talk! La la la!! I don't want another I don't want another I don't want another! Fingers in my ears!! ;-)

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeninejessica*
> 
> I see what you're getting at MW with not having to chart, but then using those guidelines, you're assuming that she'll never have an 'off' cycle, which we all knows happens. It's fine if you're ok with the added risk, but it does introduce extra risk to it!


No, I'm not assuming she'll have an off cycle. I know there's added risk to that. I just didn't say it.







However, I did say follow that _and_ use precaution anytime you have fertile CF. That would cover any off cycles as much as you can without charting.

Yep, it's so true that no matter how much you know, labor is a totally different thing when you are in the middle of it! That's why it bothers me when people and books say that it shouldn't hurt. Most of the time it does hurt. It hurts like hell! I've read so many stories about women feeling like failures afterward because it hurt and they freaked out because they had read that it shouldn't hurt if they just did this or that. But you can get through it if you know why and understand that it's not a bad kind of hurt, like when you break your leg or are having a heart attack. KWIM? I can't really say that to women, though, because they don't get it unless they've done (for the most part) and then they just get scared and want pain meds.

In the beginning of the pushing phase with Dylan, maybe with Kellen too, I was sort of grunting and sort squeezing/bearing down only a little. I didn't feel the need or uncontrollable urge to really push. That came later once his head was crowning, I think. But in the beginning it was just, grunt, grunt, grunt, little push, little push, little push.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I just bought some Imse Vimse disposable rice liners for my diapers while we are in Williamsburg. I can't in good conscience put his part solid food poopy dipes in their machine but I do NOT want to deal with a spatula again.









Kat ~ I've been thinking about your dilemma with driving if your dh can't get the time off work. Could you come up here the day before and then we could follow each other? My dh might not be able to drive up and back with me, although he should at least be able to come up for the weekend.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

The pushing urge for me was completely unexpected. I had no idea I had even hit transition (let alone passed it) - and neither did anyone else, It was like, oh crap! Let's hurry up and get in position (I was kind of on my side, almost on my stomach) and was flipped over and started pushing for real. I think by that time pain was constant - it was all I could feel. It was really hard to focus when all I wanted to do was scream. (and I did!) It felt fantastic to push her out though - the last few really effective pushes were awesome!

MW: that may be possible - we will see as we get closer to.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Kat ~ Why couldn't you stay on your side? That's how I always imagined myself pushing because I saw a video of someone doing that once and it looked so easy and peaceful. That didn't happen, though. With both Kellen and Dylan I was on my hands and knees. With Kellen it was because I was leaning over the side of the tub while laboring and that was the easiest position to get into when it came time to push. With Dylan I just dropped.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I probably could have, and might not have tore as badly. I think we were all so surprised that I was THERE that autopilot (get on your back) kicked in. At that point, everyone thought I was at most 5-6 cm dilated. (the nurse, my doula, everybody) - Next time, hopefully, I will know better! I hope.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> All this birth talk! La la la!! I don't want another I don't want another I don't want another! Fingers in my ears!! ;-)


LOL! If I'm being totally transparent, going through another birth is one of the biggest things pushing me to have another! lol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> No, I'm not assuming she'll have an off cycle. I know there's added risk to that. I just didn't say it.
> 
> ...


Sorry yes, poor wording. Just that obviously using that method doesn't account for an off cycle. *nods*

Yes, totally. It -hurt- but the pain wasn't bothering me, if that makes sense. What was upsetting, was feeling out of control. The pain... meh, been worse. It's pain with a purpose, so it's kind of like... well... I'll get through this.

And yeah, I was full on pushing from the beginning. I was given -such- a perfect rest and be thankful time, but I motored on through it, instead of giving my body a chance to rest and recover. It's funny, because it's changed how vocal I will be at births in the future. I've always just kind of hung back a bit, and stepped in when mama needed me. But I wish that someone had stepped up to me and said "Hey, it looks like your contractions are backing off a bit, did you want to try to rest and wait for your body to get going again?" Or pointed out that I was pushing more than letting my body do it. These were all things I had planned on, but then it's like you... forget, during. And I wish someone had reminded me.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> I think by that time pain was constant - it was all I could feel. It was really hard to focus when all I wanted to do was scream. (and I did!) It felt fantastic to push her out though - the last few really effective pushes were awesome!


I was so lucky, once pushing started, I really can't say I even noticed any pain. Even when the contractions were present, they didn't feel like they hurt... I think it's because my frustration at making no prgoress was more overwhelming than my feeling of pain, but it was nice at least to get a bit of rest and relief in between pushing. Everyone was laughing at me, because I was pretty much sleeping in between, and then would squeeze Rob's hand when it started to peak again, push, and then fall back onto the bed in a practically comatose state. But yes-- once I started feeling the pushes actually moving her-- that felt fantastic! I was like wohoooooooo! I am DOING this!!

Just found out we won that contest! Yay! Rob will be so proud <3


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

JJ: Congrats!

and after my first, I felt the same way - I needed to have another just to have another, hopefully better, birth experience.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

JJ ~ Congrats on winning! I'm not surprised. That was an amazing photo.

And, yes, I know what you mean about that out of control feeling. I was surprised by it when I was having Kellen even though I had been through it with Ethan. I thought his labor would be different because I wasn't induced. I was ready for it with Dylan, though, so I recognized when I felt out of control and was able to accept it more emotionally even while I was freaking out.

I remember that break period, too. Sooo nice. I think it's normal to kind of collapse in between the contractions during that time. I did. When I was birthing Kellen there were several minutes after his head was born when nothing happened. Man, that felt good!

Knowing that I will never do that again makes me sad. I also get sad to think that Sean will never be with me for a homebirth.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

This next birth thing suddenly got alot more real:

http://s247.photobucket.com/albums/gg125/akind1/?action=view¤t=316b2741.jpg&evt=user_media_share


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> This next birth thing suddenly got alot more real:
> http://s247.photobucket.com/albums/gg125/akind1/?action=view¤t=316b2741.jpg&evt=user_media_share


Are you pregnant?!?!?!?! OMG!! If you are, congrats!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you freaking out?

I was gonna write out a long post, but now I can't concentrate!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Freaking out?! Just a little. But DH is excited, and that helps. Not going to tell our families for a while, so nothing will be on Facebook. But online friends are game








I figure I am between 6-8 weeks- hard to say with weird cycles.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

SHUT THE FRONT DOOR!!!!! akind1!!!! OMG!!!! Congrats!!!!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

No fucking way!!!! Omg!!!!! Im in shock, you must be completely in shock!!! So exciting!!!!!

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

yes - very much so! I need a bigger car!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Knowing that I will never do that again makes me sad. I also get sad to think that Sean will never be with me for a homebirth.


Thinking I'll never do birth again, or even pregnancy as hard as it is, makes me terribly sad. I think that this is one of the hardest things for me to let go of.

But thinking about doing another infancy/first year again has me hesitant, especially when I think about the ages of the kids I already have, and how it will impact them. I think that's my biggest concern.

MW, Lauri, annie, Do you ever feel like your older kids miss out on anything b/c there is a baby around?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> yes - very much so! I need a bigger car!


What on earth made you think to test? Just the long cycle or were there symptoms?!


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> MW, Lauri, annie, Do you ever feel like your older kids miss out on anything b/c there is a baby around?


No, if anything, I feel like Ava gets the short end of the deal because she gets drug around to all sorts of stuff that the big kids are doing. They have to find quiet activities to do while Ava is napping but I don't think they are missing out on anything.

Reading JJ's story makes me want to have another baby partly so I can experience a semi-regular birth.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Long cycle. Coffee tasting weird and a drop in milk supply were also red flags. I am going to do all I can to keep it up through this pregnancy. Not to mention the exhaustion, but that is par for the course.

It's daunting, thinking about pregnancy and birth again. I know I can do it, just need to dig my heels in and do it. First IRL friend I told (other than DH) was my doula. LOL.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> No, if anything, I feel like Ava gets the short end of the deal because she gets drug around to all sorts of stuff that the big kids are doing. They have to find quiet activities to do while Ava is napping but I don't think they are missing out on anything.
> 
> Reading JJ's story makes me want to have another baby partly so I can experience a semi-regular birth.


I feel like if in the next 2-4 years, we do have another, Nora will get shortchanged or Finn. I think now about how when Finn is napping we hang out in the car, and we plan our days around his naps, etc. We can't stay long at places if he's fussy. I wonder if that's a downside to being an older sibling, or just part of the deal and she doesn't know any different.

I do also wonder about Finn being a "middle child" and if we have three, if we should just go on and have four.









And then....and then I think I could just STOP all this nonsense, be done, and raise these two kids to the best of my ability, and focus on them and them alone....and that's sort of alluring as well. So. Undecided.

I just know you'll have a normal birth next time. Ava needed you to have the birth you had. I know it must be hard, nonetheless.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> Long cycle. Coffee tasting weird and a drop in milk supply were also red flags. I am going to do all I can to keep it up through this pregnancy. Not to mention the exhaustion, but that is par for the course.
> It's daunting, thinking about pregnancy and birth again. I know I can do it, just need to dig my heels in and do it. First IRL friend I told (other than DH) was my doula. LOL.


Coffee tasting weird! Oh man. Oh this is too much! I'm so excited for you. Good thing pregnancy is a good lonnnnng 9 months so you have time to get ready for another labor/birth! I know you can do it! When is your EDD? Are you going to get an u/s to determine dates?

How fun to have a preggo in our midst so soon!!!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Yeah, will get an ultrasound, since the Only thing I am sure of is February.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

OMG, I can't get over this akind1!!!! This is so exciting! When did you take the test?!?


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

This afternoon at lunch. In a taco bell


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> This afternoon at lunch. In a taco bell


HAHAHHAAHA! Love it!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> This afternoon at lunch. In a taco bell












That's wonderful!!


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeninejessica*
> 
> I know it's not as exciting for most of you guys, but we have been making EC leaps and bounds, and I am so proud of her! The night she slept through the night, she also stayed dry all night through! And then today, she was dry from 930am until well... bedtime actually. She was a little bit damp when we woke up from her nap, but she was also covered in sweat, so I'm not actually sure it was pee. She pottied at my SIL's house too. I am just sooo excited for her. We're even looking at switching back to the small diaper inserts for the day, because they're less bulky, and she's not soaking her diapers as much.


Kept meaning to respond to this and then I would forget. That is so exciting! Ava is not staying dry through the night but she does through most of her naps and stays dry most of the day. Except now she is so distracted by the big kids being home that she doesn't want to take the time to go potty.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Congrats Kat!!! That's so freaking exciting! So they'll be around 16-17 months apart? That sounds perfect.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> SHUT THE FRONT DOOR!!!!! akind1!!!! OMG!!!! Congrats!!!!


^^That's exactly what my best friend texted me in response to my pregnancy announcement.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> I just know you'll have a normal birth next time. Ava needed you to have the birth you had. I know it must be hard, nonetheless.


Yes. As hard as I know it must be to look back, you had exactly the birth she needed. Your story always come to mind when I'm talking to people about intuition and things happening as they should.

Just a heads up so no one is confused-- I put in a request to change my username, should be changed within 48 hours. I'll now be onetwoten  I didn't like the fact that my username was so easy to figure out/search and have been meaning to change it for a while, but with the contest now, it was time!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeninejessica*
> 
> Just a heads up so no one is confused-- I put in a request to change my username, should be changed within 48 hours. I'll now be onetwoten  I didn't like the fact that my username was so easy to figure out/search and have been meaning to change it for a while, but with the contest now, it was time!


Oh I like that username! Cool.

Congrats on winning the contest! I could look back but I"m lazy == what do you win?? That pic was gorgeous!


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I like the user name too!

I know that Ava's birth happened the way that it needed to. Ava and God (or providence or whatever you want to call it) were in charge from the very beginning. I was just along for the ride. As I'm writing up our birth story, I realize over and over again how many things lined up perfectly to work out for the best outcome for Ava and to minimize the chaos. It truly is amazing. I can't wait to finish it and post it here on her birthday.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I did not have coffee this morning in an effort to drink more water/make more milk. So far, so good! It helps that Norah slept well, if a bit restless.

In response the news last night, one of DH's first comments was "I guess I need to make an appointment to go get snipped, huh?" LOL but we will wait a bit before doing that.

Other than needing to pee all the time (more water + pregnancy) I feel pretty good and much happier today - yesterday I was a bit freaked out.

JJ/OneTwoTen (can we still call you JJ?) - totally understandable about the name. I love the picture!

Carrie: dude, I love the idea of Dr. Seuss! Can Dr. Seuss be a pirate?

Lauri - I can't wait to read Ava's birth story!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Um, WTF?! I can't believe I missed the news! Stupid email notifications.

Kat ~ Congratulations!







I think I'm in shock.







I can't imagine getting pg while still having a baby under a year. That's crazy! Tell your dh there's no need to rush off and get snipped now. He's got a few months now.







If you can come to Williamsburg, you'll be pg. hehe

What's also amazing, Annie, is that you listened to your body and your intuition. You trusted in yourself and the process. So many people don't do that.

Well, with all of that excitement, I don't have anything to report.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I am still in shock - I keep pulling out the test to look at it! LOL My biggest concern is milk supply. With Gabe I had dried up by 8-10 weeks but we were also already heavily into the weaning stages by then. I am hoping that my supply doesn't tank as fast. I really need to make it a few more months.

First appt scheduled 7/12 - I am allowing a dating scan since I am really clueless as to how far along I am. Somewhere between 6-9 weeks. I first noticed a major dip last week, but honestly, supply (at least while pumping) has been down longer than that. I've never not known when I got pregnant - with both Gabe and Norah - we *knew* we conceived. I am getting excited!

But we aren't telling family for a while. MIL will be flabbergasted, as she had a hard time wrapping her head around #2, let alone #3.

MW: did you and D sleep well?


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

We slept pretty well. Dylan has gone back to being really restless for a chunk of time in the middle of the night. I don't know what that's about. And, he's been waking up early, which I do not like. I did get him to go back to sleep this morning so we stayed in bed until after 11. I didn't really sleep, though, because Kellen kept trying to talk to me.

DH is in the field until Thursday night bt that doesn't affect any of that. He's not here on weekday mornings anyway and he doesn't get up with D at night.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

He's learning to walk - that's big stuff! Norah wouldn't settle last night - kept wantint to climb the walls and the side car, so I wore her to sleep. took some doing, but it worked!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Dylan doesn't usually really wake up. He's just restless in his sleep, kicking his legs, rolling over this way and that. I won't get up with him because I don't want to fully wake him and I don't want him to think that means it's time to wake up. Maybe he's trying to walk in his sleep.









He practiced walking across the room several times last night, going further and further each time. He can stand himself up without holding onto anything.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Oh I like that username! Cool.
> 
> Congrats on winning the contest! I could look back but I"m lazy == what do you win?? That pic was gorgeous!


I couldn't think of one I wanted, and was going to end up with fearlessmama which is what I am on thebabywearer or diaperswappers or something... but I don't love it. And then that popped into my head and I couldn't stop giggling. Me = 1, me and DH= 2, and then came Ten  Love it!

However, my SIL has been commenting all over the mothering site and anywhere the photo is shared. gah. I commented on it before I realized it linked directly to my username. :/

Oh, and it wasn't anything big, they use the photo on the mothering FB page, I get supporter membership (which I don't remember what different it does...) and a $25 amazon gc. I'm most excited because DH is so proud his photo won  And I think I may use it as a bit of 'advertising' and use my doula account to respond to comments. More traffic 

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> I like the user name too!
> 
> I know that Ava's birth happened the way that it needed to. Ava and God (or providence or whatever you want to call it) were in charge from the very beginning. I was just along for the ride. As I'm writing up our birth story, I realize over and over again how many things lined up perfectly to work out for the best outcome for Ava and to minimize the chaos. It truly is amazing. I can't wait to finish it and post it here on her birthday.


Yes ^^ There was a plan to it all along. I remember you trying to get her to turn, and getting frustrated and then saying something about how maybe there was a reason you couldn't get her to turn. You followed your instincts which is so exactly what trusting birth is about. Mama knows.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> JJ/OneTwoTen (can we still call you JJ?) - totally understandable about the name. I love the picture!


Yes! I just don't want it as easily searchable, you know? My email address is the same thing too, it was a stupid move to make my SN so easy.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> What's also amazing, Annie, is that you listened to your body and your intuition. You trusted in yourself and the process. So many people don't do that.
> Well, with all of that excitement, I don't have anything to report.


Yes!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> He's learning to walk - that's big stuff! Norah wouldn't settle last night - kept wantint to climb the walls and the side car, so I wore her to sleep. took some doing, but it worked!


Yay!! Ten will fall asleep being worn, but wakes as soon as I try to move her out of it. So it works for naps, but not night.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

JJ: It is comical how I get her off my back in order to continue sleeping on the bed. I approach and get on the bed and knee-walk to where I want her to be, and then slowly lay flat on my tummy as I work on undoing the knot. Once I am flat, I start unwrapping her (this obviously works better when there are no bits across your front. She was in a RRRR) and kind of tlt her off my back towards which ever side she isn't facing. she usually wriggles a little to get into a comfy position and stays asleep. Voila!

*yawn*


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Come to think of it, you've been more tired lately, too haven't you, Kat? I'm still so excited for you. I'm already wondering boy or girl! Getting ahead of myself! And of you! LOL!!

Finn the past few nights has slept thru!! I hope it continues! I can live like this!! Sleeping from 10 or 11 til 5, nursing, and then again til 7 is wonderful and I cannot complain. I don't want to get my hopes up too high b/c I know/bet it'll change in a few weeks but until then I'm going to just enjoy it.

Had a nice playdate today, went to Red Robin with Finn and Nora and met up with a pg mama friend and her little girl. I'm making some good IRL friends lately! Helps!! She's very natural mama minded and we had a nice chat about stuff.

The most (TMI) comical thing just happened. Finn came into the bathroom while I was *ahem* trying to go, but I don't like being climbed on while I do my business, so I scuttled (w/shorts around ankles) to get the baby gate from the stairs so he could stand at the door. I put the gate up and turn around and he's halfway up the stairs! I go back and get him, shut the door and scuttle back to the bathroom and finally am able to finish going! Oh man what we do to have poop in peace when we have mobile babies!! Too much! I was cracking up!!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I give Norah bath toys to play with on the floor while I go.

It's fun to wonder! It's bound to be one or the other. Now to just agree on names!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I've been naming our next child(ren)! I currently love Lola. Lola Elaine or Lola Renee.

He only wants to climb me! And smother my legs with kisses. It's lovely any other time!!


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Oooh Lola is nice! Our next baby girl's name is Maren...hahaha! Haven't decided on a good middle name though. Would definitely be a family name though.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I like Maren! It's different and old fashioned!

At this point I think my only hope is a birth control failure. Chris is adamant no more kids. It's true pregnancy is hard and birth is tough...but the truth is i LOVE these kids. They are my entire heart and soul and my reason for being here. They've taught me so much about my core values, my beliefs, my passions. How strong I can be. I just can't be done. I just can't. So. We shall see.

I also really like Desmond or Sasha for a boy.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Yeah ours would have to be a user error as well. DH is way too familiar with my cycles to not know where I am. And he's adamant right now no more babies either.









DD slept better last night. I hope she's turned a corner and I get a few weeks' reprieve.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Right now our top faves are Theodore Lewis or Edward and Caroline Lily.

But that's flexible









This was a combo of birth control failure/and playing with fire.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I love Caroline. It was on our short list for Ava.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> This was a combo of birth control failure/and playing with fire.


I was wondering because I thought you said you were using condoms.

Since I'll never use it now, I vote for Chloe. I don't have a middle name. It used to be Chloe Elizabeth but I don't really like Elizabeth any more. I really got into Breann when I was pg with Dylan but I'm told that's a very common name. Gosh, I can't remember what our agreed upon first name for a girl was. Sean didn't like Chloe. Oh, Kailea.







Chloe Breann sounds ok.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I like Chloe. But it's a little too trendy for my style for my own kids. I love it tho.

I want to see how I feel in a year.

These kids need to go to bed! I've been going all day and really need a minute to relax!

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Is the failure rate for condoms bc they don't work, or does it take into account them breaking, or putting them on wrong? If no breaks and correct usage, do they still fail? Im worried since that's all we use.

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Is Chloe trendy? I don't know anything about trends. I was a kid when I picked that name and have loved it since.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Is the failure rate for condoms bc they don't work, or does it take into account them breaking, or putting them on wrong? If no breaks and correct usage, do they still fail? Im worried since that's all we use.
> Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk


Good question. Here's what I found with a quick google search. http://menshealth.about.com/od/contraception/a/condom_failure.htm

I also found another article that said condoms break 2-5% of the time. That means most of the time it's usage error since the failure rate is about 19%, right?

I guess that means there is always a possibility that I could have another baby if we use condoms. I'm taking my name back.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I think the failure rate takes in to account people not putting them on properly or in enough time. But since you can't control when they break even with perfect usage, they are also almost always coated w/spermicide to provide a second layer of protection.

Chloe is #10 for the top 10 girls' names in 2011. Pretty trendy. But Ava is #5 and I've only met one other Ava that age and she spells it Ayva.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> I think the failure rate takes in to account people not putting them on properly or in enough time. But since you can't control when they break even with perfect usage, they are also almost always coated w/spermicide to provide a second layer of protection.
> 
> Chloe is #10 for the top 10 girls' names in 2011. Pretty trendy. But Ava is #5 and I've only met one other Ava that age and she spells it Ayva.


Because I'm allergic to nonoxynol 9, we purposely avoid the ones with spermicide. So no second layer of protection for us.

Blech, how can you use a condom more than once?!?

LOL, Alysia!

They're both asleep! Wine for me! I love getting them both to bed by 9 pm!!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

are there any other spermicides?

i think D is going to sleep. he took one late nap since we slept in til 11. the other boys are upstairs and it's been way too quiet for too long. i'm scared to go up there now.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> are there any other spermicides?
> i think D is going to sleep. he took one late nap since we slept in til 11. the other boys are upstairs and it's been way too quiet for too long. i'm scared to go up there now.


A quick search says no, not really.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spermicide

LOL hopefully it's not too bad!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> I give Norah bath toys to play with on the floor while I go.
> It's fun to wonder! It's bound to be one or the other. Now to just agree on names!


I do the same thing. We've got a bucket of bath toys that is our "break glass in case of" bucket. She loves it and they will almost always distract her.

Oooh names! It's funny, I've liked lots of names but never had one "come to me" in terms of that one day just -knowing- that it's meant to be. Not even with Tenley. I was in the shower a few weeks ago and all of a sudden had that feeling. I came out and told DH. It was one of those "I can't -not- name the next one that now, it just feels so right". So if there's another girl in our cards, he name will be Adelyn or Adalyn.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> Oooh Lola is nice! Our next baby girl's name is Maren...hahaha! Haven't decided on a good middle name though. Would definitely be a family name though.


A girl in my AP group's daughter is named Marin. I've loved it ever since I first saw it there.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> I also really like Desmond or Sasha for a boy.


Sasha is my doula's son's name. She also has Ezra, Micah and Milla. I love them all!

I'm a bad mama. Tenley is absolutely shrieking in her crib right now, and I'm just not ready to go to her yet. I've been trying to get her to sleep since 7:30pm. It's 9:15pm now. She's exhausted and WILL. NOT. SLEEP. no matter what I do. Even nursing, she'll nurse for 30 minutes straight, but wide eyes, and shrieks when I pop her off. I am soooo done with this. I get so angry with her. We had those 3 good nights in a row, and then since then they've been as bad as ever. 45-1 hour in between wakeups, and taking an hour every night to get her to sleep. She wakes up in the night and I don't even want to see her I'm so angry. I know I need to reframe it in my head but this is just getting ridiculous. In 7 months she's only really had like... a dozen good nights. And they're not getting better, they're getting worse.

Urg. Ok, deep breath, going in there again.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Aw, JJ. Take a few deep breaths. Things WILL get better. You're not a bad mama. If you're at the end of your rope, take a break. Getting angry with her isn't a good place to be, so breathe deep. This too shall pass.

Maybe don't try to get her to sleep. Let her play. Let her get exhausted. Wear her out. You know, there's a reason why I run myself ragged all day -- if I don't tire these kids out, they don't go down easy. Did Ten nap ok today?

Sometimes in the middle of the night, if/when they wake, if I'm angry, I make myself laugh. I think of a good thought. I know it'll pass and I know that they will outgrow it.

One of the posts I'm working on for my blog is about how different it is this second time around. With Nora I worried and got angry when she would wake thru the night, or not go to sleep. With Finn, I take it for what it is, and work thru it and try not to get angry b/c I do know it will end.

I'm trying to apply that same logic to Nora now, as she goes thru what she's going thru, her growing pains. I wonder why I freak out about her hitting, for example, or throwing fits, or not listening, and wonder "What am I doing wrong, how do I fix it!?" when I don't worry about those things with Finn. If I apply the same logic, things WILL work out, she will outgrow whatever stage/funk she is in, she will grow and change and evolve. If I don't worry about Finn doing these things, I can't worry about Nora doing these things.

Oh I'm rambling. But. Point is == don't WORRY. You will survive this, she will survive this, and it'll be ok.

I love this quote:

"Don't stand unmoving outside the door of a crying baby whose only desire is to touch you. Go to your baby. Go to your baby a million times. Demonstrate that people can be trusted, that the environment can be trusted, that we live in a benign universe." = peggy o'mara


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

JJ. It's tough. I agree with everything Carrie said.

I was the same with Ryan. I got upset over everything, wondering what I was doing wrong, what was wrong with him. I now realize that the answer to both of those questions was nothing. One of the best things I learned was to just go with the flow, not try to force things. I can't make another person do anything they really don't want to do.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

PS Love Adelyn.

PPS. Looking at newborn pictures of Finn and totally decided i'm not done having babies. NEEEEEDD more babies!!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Aw, JJ. Take a few deep breaths. Things WILL get better. You're not a bad mama. If you're at the end of your rope, take a break. Getting angry with her isn't a good place to be, so breathe deep. This too shall pass.
> 
> ...


Gah. Ok, she's sleeping. I could hear her starting to quiet a bit, and I didn't want to risk her falling asleep after crying. While I totally know my limits and when I need a second away, I also know that I couldn't stand to let her fall asleep all alone and sad like that 

Her naps have sucked too. She's sleeping 20-30 minutes, and then waking up wide eyed and not going back down, even after nursing. Today though she did actually get a one hour one in, but then basically didn't nap at all in the afternoon- 15 minutes maybe at about 530?

We've tried keeping her up later, but she starts to absolutely melt down at about 715pm every day, sometimes it's not even that late. If we wait longer she's pretty much inconsolable. Last night was the same with getting her to bed, and then she finally fell asleep, slept for 10 minutes after I put her down, and then woke up wide awake. I brought her out here into the living room, and tried to put her down to play, and she was a shrieky mess. She wouldn't even sit with DH while I poured myself a drink and got myself ready to bed. I took her to bed with me, thinking maybe a change of scenery would help. Even nursing sidelying, it still took three switches of sides and about 30 minutes to get her to fall back asleep. DH slept on the couch because he didn't want to be in there with us. I don't blame him, I kinda wanted the couch! lol

I've been trying to keep her busier, because I thought the same thing, and DH has asked it too, that maybe she's just bored during the day and not getting enough excitement, but we've been going outside, and we got a new toy we've been exploring (it's one of those big wooden cubes with different things on each side), and every day this week we've had an aunt come over to play and visit... but none of it seems to be making a difference. I don't know if going out out would help, as in going to the mall, or somewhere on the bus or something. I may have to try.

I totally totally get what you mean about not worrying. It's just the lack of sleep. I try so ahrd to stay positive day to day, but I am so freaking tired, and then nighttime rolls around, and I start out so positive that tonight will bet he night, she's going to sleep well, and we're going to get rest, etc etc etc... and then she starts up again, and all I can think is "I'm literally too tired to walk the house with you baby, I'm going to fall over!" Sometimes when she cried in the middle of the night, honestly the thought of having to go to her makes me dizzy. And I know the obvious answer for most AP parents is to bring her into the bed, but it's worse. I barely slept at all last night. I was hoping maybe that would be the magic key, but I keep trying it again and again, and it just doesn't work.

Anyways, I'm just saying, I get what you mean, and I think if I could just get enough/more sleep, then I wouldn't care. I know that developmentally, she's going to get through it, and it's all good and normal etc etc. It's just that that doesn't help when she's going on 90 minutes of fighting sleep, or her 8th wakeup of the night, and I want to cry I'm so tired, kwim?

And yes yes yes! Love that quote. That's why every time I leave the room, I come back as soon as I can. I'm frustrated. I need a break. I need to collect my thoughts. But I don't for a second look at it as her needing to just push through it and fall asleep. That makes me sad.  I like when she falls asleep in my arms, cozy and dreaming peacefully!

ok, now I'm gonna go eat the food I cooked and burnt 45 minutes ago, and take some more deep breaths. I feel like sometimes all I do is vent to you guys, but you keep me sane, honestly. <3


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Oh, and I forgot the kicker.

AF returned today. 

And I was wearing khaki shorts.

And I have a beach trip planned for Friday.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Could she be teething? Not that you haven't thought of that already. I think the teething strips are a freaking GODSEND.

I hope you get some sleep. I really honestly truly feel your pain. Nora was Tenley. And you WILL survive. And so will she. And someday, you'll go to tuck her in bed, and she'll look at you with those big eyes and say, "Just go, mama. I'm really tired." Like Nora did tonight. And your work will all have been worth it.









POX ON AF!!







You knew it. You knew she was coming!!! Ugh. I'm sorry!!! Hopefully by then she'll have slowed down so you can enjoy the beach!!!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

She is teething, but she's been dosed up on teething tablets, and off and on with tylenol too. It seems like it helps sometimes, but nights like tonight, she wasn't showing any teething pain, no chewing, no intense need to nurse, no fingers in her mouth... just... fussy and wired. At least when I can tell it's teething pain I have tons and tons of sympathy for her! lol

AF- I know, at least I could tell she was on her way and had a heads up. I think that makes it like a 6 day LP though or something like that. lol. I know it'll change though. It'll be interesting to see what my patterns do these next few months. It used to be like clockwork.

I need to go buy a bathing suit tomorrow. I'm both dreading it and looking forward to it. My boobs look freaking fantastic. My love handles... well, multiple people could hold on for dear life. lol.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *onetwoten*
> 
> Even nursing sidelying, it still took three switches of sides and about 30 minutes to get her to fall back asleep.


What is going on with that girl?!

Honestly, though, this is what I do every night several times a night when D nurses. I really think that's within normal. I don't know what else to say about it. That probably doesn't help or make you feel any better.

Can your dh take her at least once during the night so you can get some sleep? Or hire a mother's helper to come over during the day so you can get a break, some rest, or maybe even some sleep? It's ok to make it a big deal.

I'm in between bathing suit sizes. My nursing suit is too big. If I jumped in the water, the bottoms would probably fall off.







But my regular suit is still a little too tight for my liking, especially in the boobs.

I'm up because everyone is asleep and I want some "me" time. Finishing up a pair of socks. I'll regret it tomorrow, I'm sure.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I actually stopped temping and am only recording CF until I see signs of fertility again.







It was too much thought and I'm having wayyyyy too many ttc thoughts (which I knew would happen)! I know myself too well. I need to take a step back. I do like temping/charting b/c I can know when to expect AF but if nothing is happening I just get way too in my head about things.

Ugh, Poor JJ. I'm going to vote phase. She gave you a few good nights to regroup and now she's back at it again. I'm sorry.

Finn had a rougher than normal night too. Lots of nursing, I know I even switched sides which means he did more than twice in a row on one side (any more than that and I leak too much and get engorged still...) and twice on the other, and then he was up by 7! Coffee! Please!! Stat!!!

Going to the beach today! My bathing suit is good. I'm almost tempted to wear my two piece but I think I'll just wear my tankini. Much easier to chase kids and not worry about love handles and fat rolls.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Omg. AF just showed up. Exactly 28.days but that was totally annovulatory. Punk!

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Boo for AF travelling along beach trips!

JJ: totally a phase.

I have a migrain today. + early pregnancy exhaustion = mama is sleeping or laying on the couch all day in a heated fog. ugh. Need to feel better!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Carrie ~ I had several cycles like that after Ethan before I finally Oed. Then my cycles got all wacky again.

I've been meaning to comment on how adding another baby would affect the older kids. For me, it was pretty easy going from 1 LO to 2 but it's been a lot harder going from 2 to 3. I feel like Kellen, being the middle one, gets the short end of the stick most of the time. They all get shorted some, though. Ethan missed out on playing baseball this spring because I just could not stay here for 2 months on my own again right after Sean had gotten home. Dylan doesn't get as much attention as Ethan or even Kellen did as a baby because sometimes I have to do something for the other two.

I think if I could be totally unemotional about it and knew before what I know now, I probably would not have had Dylan. I hope that doesn't sound horrible. I don't regret having him and I love him immeasurably but, if I had known how hard this would be for me, I might have chosen to be content with what I had.


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> I think if I could be totally unemotional about it and knew before what I know now, I probably would not have had Dylan. I hope that doesn't sound horrible. I don't regret having him and I love him immeasurably but, if I had known how hard this would be for me, I might have chosen to be content with what I had.


I totally understand. It's like.........you would never give any of your kids back and love them immeasurably, but sometimes hind sight is 20/20!









Carrie - I'm not sure how having a younger child effects the older ones. In my mind I loved being in a bigger family, and raising all these littles is exhausting! And of course I wasn't even trying OR whatevering for Ana - but I love that I have my four girls. Just my own personal experience/feelings. Also, my best friends are my family members, and I at least want to give that opportunity to them. If they don't like each other anyways, whatev!

I can't think of everything else that was said - I haven't had much computer access.

I am still evacuated







As far as I can tell my house should be standing. No one has been able to go back there, and the people who lost their homes are being notified today. It sux - word is it is about 300 homes lost. Soooo sad.

No word on when we will be let back in. With that many homes burned I can only imagine.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

LaurI, how sad! Praying for yOu all.

Yes I am iPhone typing.

MW: I understand, I have an IRL friend that feels te same way about her third. You just never know, though.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

annie ~ I didn't realize you had evacuated. Where are you staying? Evacuating sucks! I need to get our hurricane emergency supplies replenished.

Kat ~ Hope you are feeling better.

So true, too, that you never know. Obviously, there was no way for me to know how hard this would be for me and I would have regretted immensely if I hadn't had Dylan. I wanted him so badly. I am absolutely certain now, though, that I am done!







If I got pg by accident, I would have and love that child but I will do everything in my power and comfort level to prevent that at this point.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Omg. AF just showed up. Exactly 28.days but that was totally annovulatory. Punk!


Maybe we'll be cycle buddies and we can be miserable together! lol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *annie2186*
> 
> I am still evacuated
> 
> ...


 I can't imagine. I don't remember, where are you guys staying?

We have a toofer!! Kind of... You can't see it, but you can see the the skin split overnight, and you can feel it with your finger.

So she slept from 920ish until 1130, and then was up every 45 minutes until around 330, when she woke up and absolutely wouldn't go back down. Somewhere around 530 DH finally relaxed her enough, and I nursed her back to sleep in our bed. She slept a lot better after that (but I mean she also cried for almost two hours...) Then she slept for about 50 minutes this morning at grammies (DH was with her while I ran to the store to find a bathing suit.) And then this afternoon her and I slept for almost 2 hours.

TONIGHT WILL BE MAGNIFICENT!!! I'm using every ounce of positive thinking I have.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

We've got the teething woes here too and it's rough. Poor thing moaned in her sleep from about 6-9 AM until she finally woke up for the day.







We went to the water wall again and this time my mom came with my nieces. Ava had a good time but she didn't want people getting up and moving around. She would start stressing out thinking they were leaving her. I can't wait until she starts walking so she can follow after them.

I could never understand the moms in large families that would say it's actually easier with more kids but now I totally get it. Especially with older kids, it's so much easier taking care of Ava when the big kids are home. They entertain her so I can pump and get stuff done. Tomorrow night DH and I are going out to dinner with one of our married couple friends to celebrate the husband's birthday and the big kids are watching Ava.









Annie, keep us posted. I hope everything is ok with your house!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Praying for good sleep for everybody. DH is home late, so I think I will not actIvely try to do bedtime, just let them fall asleep.

I am not nearly as stresses about milk supply on non pumping days. There is clearly less milk, but seems to be enough.

Norah's teeh are the same way, I can feel them but not see them.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Cross-Posting from my AP group... The whole group is doing a group beach trip tomorrow. I've been talking about it since Monday, and then today left Ten with DH so I could go buy a bathing suit. A few hours AFTER I get home from buying a bathing suit FOR the trip, Rob tells me that he doesn't think we should go. *blink blink* It's a high UV day tomorrow, but it likely won't even reach 80F.

Vent. So... We're not coming to the beach day tomorrow. Because my husband thinks it's too hot out. Ok, I get that, so I went through the list of precautions I was planning on taking- UV swimsuit and hat, sunscreen, an umbrella for the beach, the wind, the water, a spray bottle with water in it, to mist her down, taking advantage of shade... And then asked my husband if he was saying he thought I was going to put my enjoyment at the beach above the health of my daughter-- and his response was "Ehhhh....." and just kind of shrugged. *%^#. I'm so fed up with him questioning my parenting choices, and insinuating I'm just not paying attention. He constantly makes comments about how I treat him like a bad parent, but if I said half the things he did, he'd freak. Today alone, he tsk tsked me for giving her too big a piece of food, then told me I always overpack way too much stuff for her everytime we go out (Hello, I'm the one out with her 90% of the time. I know what she needs), and then telling me that he thinks I'm going to sacrifice her in order to have fun at the beach. Like I'm -actually- going to sit there and let her heat stroke out while I'm chatting away. Arg! I -get- that he was concerned about the heat. But I'm not stupid, and I was taking precautions to ensure neither of us got overheated. I'm sorry, but that should have been enough to convince him that I wasn't going to be stupid about it. But then to actually admit that he thought I was going to ignore her needs. *sigh*. Sorry guys, I'm angry and moody right now due to lack of sleep, AF returning and now getting all excited about something I'm not going to get to go to. Yay for another day in which I sit at home and do nothing.

I'm so pissed guys. He keeps us from so many things because he says he wants to experience them with her- but then when I try to get him to go- he never wants to go! So the whole freaking summer is going to pass us by, and we're not going to have done anything. Yay for wasting my mat leave.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

JJ ~ I'd go anyway, especially if you feel that strongly about getting out of the house.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

JJ, was he using the heat as an excuse because he doesn't want you to take her to the beach without him? I just don't understand. I try to be respectful of things that DH asks me to do or not do with Ava but he doesn't usually say such outlandish things. It was 90+ degrees today but we went to the park because we were going to be in the shade and Ava was going to be in the water the whole time playing in the water wall.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Yeah - the hotter it is, the more likely we will be in the water - LOL - Tell him to come south. If we never ventured anywhere when it was 80 degrees +, we would be stuck inside 3/4 of the year. MEN


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Oh I hope you dismissed him and decided to go anyway. That's just nonsense. There is nothing more infuriating than someone questioning your judgement -- especially your own husband!

Dude, we were at the beach yesterday and it was too hot. It had to be over 100 with the heat index. We just had water to drink, watermelon, plenty of boob for the baby (he probably nursed more in those 2 hours than all day the day before, you know?), and a tent. We did go in the water a bit (felt sooooo nice!). It was fine! That's what the beach is!

What's funny is the kids were fine but *I* was the one who got burned and felt dizzy and got crabby b/c I was so busy being concerned with them I didn't think of myself. So. If anything, you sacrifice yourself to make sure the kids are ok. And with other moms there -- what the hell!? The kids will be FINE!

UP EARLY. Gah-- I think I made coffee with my eyes closed this morning! I'm slowly coming around. Idk why I'm so tired!!! I fell asleep putting Nora to bed, and Finn STTN so it wasn't him. The cats were howling at something at 5 so I came out to shush them and then Nora called for me and was a bit chatty for like 10 min...but then she went back to sleep and so did I. Finn was up for the day at 630.







GAH. I admit, I put him in the pack and play and fell asleep on the couch for like 20 min while he played.

Chris comes home tonight! After they're in bed, but still. Yay!

Making a wish list on amazon for Finn's birthday. He needs drums. He LOVES to turn anything and everything into a drum and beat it with sticks. He'll even take a bowl and a straw if there's nothing around, flip it over, make it a drum and rock out. Any recommendations?


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Nope, we stayed home. And I'm effing pissed about it. So I'm toying with two bitchy plans. A/ Going to the mall, because it's AIR CONDITIONED (as is our house, but yanno) and going shopping. Lots of shopping. New iphone anyone? That's such a better idea than the beach. and B/ Telling him all freaking summer that I can't do any yard work because it's too hot for Tenley outside.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I vote both!

Bummer.









I shop when I'm mad. I also clean when I'm mad. And eat. I think maybe you should take Ten out to lunch. At a REALLLLLLY nice place.

I bought more dipes.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Carrie - yay more diapers!

JJ: yes, do both! LOL I shop when I am mad. sometimes I clean. Most of the time I am mad bc I am the one that's cleaning, then I abdicate cleaning for a bit in hopes that someone else will do it.

Gabe burned the tip of his finger today on the stove. I know it hurts but he has been a sobbing mess for over an hour. Finally he is mostly calm. *sigh* put lavender and peppermint oil on it. Neosporin with pain relief. also tried a bowl of cool water with oils in it. That was the most successful, but he won't keep his hand in it. It's got a lovely blister.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

That's too bad, JJ. I'd totally go with plan B. I'm not much of a shopper/spender so that doesn't appeal to me but if it's something you've been wanting to do, do it!

I'm with everyone else on the heat. It's supposed to be over 100 F here for like 5 days. I consider that perfect weather for going to beach rather than not. My problem with going to the beach is that I'm afraid I won't be able to watch everyone and someone will drown. Ethan and Kellen love to be in the water but neither is a strong swimmer yet. Ethan has been venturing out further and further and Kellen tries to follow him.

We're supposed to go to the park today to meet a new baby in our homeschool group. I specifically said I want to meet the baby, but...Mom is planning to be there at 10 am, in about 9 minutes. We just got up maybe 20 minutes ago. I've only had one cup of coffee. No one has had anything to eat. We're nowhere near ready to leave the house yet.

Sean got home last night in a very good mood. The coffee pot was all set up for me this morning. All I had to do wash push the button.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> Gabe burned the tip of his finger today on the stove. I know it hurts but he has been a sobbing mess for over an hour. Finally he is mostly calm. *sigh* put lavender and peppermint oil on it. Neosporin with pain relief. also tried a bowl of cool water with oils in it. That was the most successful, but he won't keep his hand in it. It's got a lovely blister.


Ouch! Hugs and kisses to Gabe!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Sean got home last night in a very good mood. The coffee pot was all set up for me this morning. All I had to do wash push the button.


That's sweet!!

Did you make it to the playdate and love on that new baby!?

I'm running on fumes today! Ack!! I should be cleaning while Finn naps and Nora's at school but I'm watching TV and eating instead. I'll tidy up later, I suppose...

Eh, I'm boring. Nm to report. How is everyone else? Busy? Thinking of annie and her family! Keep us posted if you can! And... thinking of the new iphone JJ is getting....


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Hey everyone! Able to pick up some internet connection so I wanted to give you an update.

I am still under mandatory evacuation and I am not sure when I am going to be able to go back. Sux, but at least I have my house (so far). Thinking of you all, and hopefully I will be able to catch up soon.

How is Kat doing?


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Did you make it to the playdate and love on that new baby!?


Yes, I made it (an hour late). The baby is so tiny with a full head of fuzzy hair...hehe. Her mom said she's not tiny at all, 8.5 lbs. at birth, 8 lbs. 4 oz. now at a little over a week. It's always so amazing how tiny even bigger newborns are.

Another mama in our group is about 17 weeks pg now. I lent her my doppler to hear the heartbeat since she hasn't had any prenatals yet. I also gave her all of my mat clothes. Man, it feels good to be rid of those! I was hoping she'd be having a homebirth because she talked about it a lot before she was pg. Now, though, she says she's not sure. It depends on insurance and money.

There was a new family there today, too. Two boys around Ethan's and Kellen's age and two girls, one a baby just 11 days older than Dylan. That's kind of cool.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I am fine. Of course it's wicked hot outside when my internal temp is on the rise due to pregnancy.

Glad you are safe.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Ok, so we ended up going. We got up, I was having breakfast and sitting on the computer, and I could tell already I was in such a pissy mood that I was going to spend the whole day cranky and yelling at her. That's not fair to her. And then a family member who is also part of the AP group commented on my vent thread and was like "Oh too bad, we wanted to go, and don't have a car today. J you should have told him you promised us you'd pick him up! And I was like, ok this is stupid. I'm so upset about not going, I'm cranky... Screw this. I looked up the bus schedule and determined that if I could get ready within 35 minutes, then we could bus to DH's work, grab the car, then pick up the friend and go, and make it there a a reasonable time. So I texted him and told him to call me when he was out of his appt. He did, and then decided to come home in between, so we drove him back to work, and then went on our way.

SO GLAD I ended up going. It was wonderful to get out. It made the day fly by. I feel so much better after the day in the sand and water and sun. It was actually even cool. The water was very warm, but there was a gorgeous breeze, and I had to actually pull Ten out of the water because she was shivering. So no, not too hot  lol. But she loved it, played in the sand, and this beach you can walk out half the length of a football field and it's only up to your waist, so it's perfect for the babies. Plopped her and her almost cousin down, and they played and splashed and grabbed at the wet sand. And then she slept for almost two hours on the way home.

It was SUCH a gorgeous day. One of those that pre-kids, I could have taken a book and a massive thing of water, and laid on the beach from 10am-3pm and not moved, and woke up with a gorgeous tan, and all warm and fuzzy feeling, but not hot.

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> I vote both!
> 
> ...


I've never done the shopping while mad thing, but oh I was so tempted. I was going to get an iphone anyways, because I need something more than my current one for the doula work... but we've been trying to put it off as long as possible, since it's $160 up front, and then doubles my monthly cell contract. Anyways, I ended up not doing it.

Ooooh! We could go for steak together. She needs iron, right? lol

Diapers!! I didn't tell you guys, but I bought two more too, very pretty prints. And I already had 8 posted for sale, since I'd determined that I had way more than I needed. So, now I really should sell all 8. I was planning on posting the 8, and if I sold 4, I'd be happy. Now... I'll push for at least 6. They're so addicting!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> JJ: yes, do both! LOL I shop when I am mad. sometimes I clean. Most of the time I am mad bc I am the one that's cleaning, then I abdicate cleaning for a bit in hopes that someone else will do it.
> 
> Gabe burned the tip of his finger today on the stove. I know it hurts but he has been a sobbing mess for over an hour. Finally he is mostly calm. *sigh* put lavender and peppermint oil on it. Neosporin with pain relief. also tried a bowl of cool water with oils in it. That was the most successful, but he won't keep his hand in it. It's got a lovely blister.


I SO do that with the cleaning. And I'm about to do it again. got angry last night, because I had a friend over Wednesday, so I did a speed clean Wed afternoon. By last night, the kitchen looks like a storm hit it. And 80% of it was not me. *sigh* So, I'm on strike. I'm only putting away mine and Ten's stuff, and leaving everything else. From past experience though, I'll give up after a week, and nothing else will have been touched in the meantime.

Poor Gabe  I've heard the cool water is the best for it too. This was probably posted hours ago, but if it's still warm to the touch, could you put something in the water to make it more enticing? Give him bubbles or something to push around in the water?

Speaking of-- I'm -finally- starting up a homeopathic 'kit'. What do I need most? I've got at home lavender and rescue remedy. In my shopping cart is TTO, Clary Sage EO, grapefruit EO, more teething tablets, Arnica, pulsatilla, and calms forte. They do free shipping after $79, so I figure I'll just order everything at once. DH told me to order whatever I want, and I'll just write it off as a business expense. Most of it I could totally justify that way too.

PS, did we have the discussion here re: Baby sunscreen? I think every group of mine has had that discussion lately. We had a sample of Arbonne sunscreen, that I used for the first time on her today. I liked it, but don't have anything to compare it to. I've heard good things about the green beaver. I've used their face stuff before and liked it.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> That's too bad, JJ. I'd totally go with plan B. I'm not much of a shopper/spender so that doesn't appeal to me but if it's something you've been wanting to do, do it!
> I'm with everyone else on the heat. It's supposed to be over 100 F here for like 5 days. I consider that perfect weather for going to beach rather than not. My problem with going to the beach is that I'm afraid I won't be able to watch everyone and someone will drown. Ethan and Kellen love to be in the water but neither is a strong swimmer yet. Ethan has been venturing out further and further and Kellen tries to follow him.
> ...


YES! That's what finally got me. I remembered so many of my various MDC pals talking about outside days when it's 100+ out, and I was like this is silly! I -know- she's going to be fine.

And that's my favorite part about going in a big group like this. There were probably 20 adults, some in couples, and some singles, and probably 30 kids. So there were tons of people both in the water and on the beach, to lend extra eyes. Would Ethan and/or Kellen wear a life jacket, or water wings or something?

Yay for coffee! And even more yay that he thought to do it for you. It seems like little by little he's trying a bit harder for you. Still misses, but... little things he's trying at least!

Ok, off to find dinner!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> JJ, was he using the heat as an excuse because he doesn't want you to take her to the beach without him? I just don't understand. I try to be respectful of things that DH asks me to do or not do with Ava but he doesn't usually say such outlandish things. It was 90+ degrees today but we went to the park because we were going to be in the shade and Ava was going to be in the water the whole time playing in the water wall.


I meant to comment on this too. I think in part that was his concern... but... he keeps saying that about different things (he wants to be there for her first), but then he resists actually going when I try to go do that activity. Case in point- he doesn't want me to go to the zoo without him. I totally get that. But every time I try to plan a zoo day, he thinks of a reason we can't go. So annoying, because then I miss out on playdates because I'm waiting for him. But you're right, I don't want him to miss those 'firsts', and I try really hard to take what he wants/worries about into consideration, which is why I wasn't going to go. I figured he told me his opinion, and if I didn't listen to it, then why bother even acting like his opinion matters, you know? But the more I thought about how ridiculous his concern was, the more angry it made me. There's so many other things he could have voiced, and I would have been like "ok, I respect that, we won't go." But for him to make it about the heat and me not paying attention and letting her get heat stroke... that's just silly.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

JJ ~ I'm glad you went and had such a good time.

Kellen would probably wear a vest and they both have boogie boards. Those things make me even more nervous, though, because I'm afraid they'll float away. I have a major fear of the ocean. It's almost a phobia. I have a panic attack if I go in past my ankles for too long. I can only handle it enough to dunk myself and get out as fast as I can.

And, yes, the little things Sean has been doing have really helped. I was actually thinking romantical thoughts about him today.









I agree that it's important to take your spouse's opinion into account but that works both ways. If it's not something logical or reasonable or it's keeping you from doing something harmless that you really want to do, then your spouse needs to understand that, too.

We're the opposite here. Sean is always encouraging me to get out and do more but I don't want to. I did have a good time at the park today and the boys are much more pleasant to be around. Ethan is always much happier after playing with some friends for a while. He wants to plan a pool day and the rest of us were talking about meeting at the beach. Like you said, I can do it when there is a group and everyone is looking out for everyone else. I just can't take all 3 boys on my own.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *MarineWife* 

I have a major fear of the ocean. It's almost a phobia. I have a panic attack if I go in past my ankles for too long. I can only handle it enough to dunk myself and get out as fast as I can.


> And, yes, the little things Sean has been doing have really helped. I was actually thinking romantical thoughts about him today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ahh right. I forget you guys aren't going to a dinky beach, it's actually the ocean. That would make me nervous too. When it comes to kids, I'm much better with pools or small beaches. The one we were at today is about 45 minutes from our house, (when I'm not doing three stops in between, on the opposite side of the city), and is manmade, so it's really pretty small, and relatively safe. And even though it is 'technically' unsupervised, there are 'lifeguards' constantly patrolling it, and they're all actually trained paramedics.

Yay romantic thoughts! I wish I could say the same lately :/

Getting out is so much easier when you have a good group of people to go with, and I know you've been having some trouble finding a like-minded local group. That makes it tough. If I didn't have this group, I'd probably stay home all the time. They put on enough playdates and stuff that I try to go out once every two weeks, and I go to my cousins about as often. I'll probably go more often during the summer, especially as she's more mobile and able to enjoy the company of the other babies. It's so nice to have a local tribe to complement the online tribe I have with you guys!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *onetwoten*
> 
> Ahh right. I forget you guys aren't going to a dinky beach, it's actually the ocean.


Haha, yeah! It's the ocean with not just sharks but also alligators and strong currents and crashing waves. At least it's the beach on the base so probably at least every other person there is trained in emergency first aid.

I did learn that the pool at the other base, the air station, has one of those sloping ends that starts at only 1 foot. I think I'll try that with the kids. It sounds perfect. I can't believe I've lived here for 6 years and never heard of it before.

Sean is upstairs putting Dylan to sleep. I haven't heard one peep out of either of them for about 30 minutes. I wonder if it's working.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

The airstation put in a nice pool?? Whoot! The Army basy here has an awesome sort of water park. Nothing deeper than 4 feet, a lazy river, a couple of water slides, great toddler area, splash pad. And it's open to the public (whom they charge more than 2x as much as enlisted people to get in, but whatever) We went with my parents (retiree discount!) and the kids loved it.

I LOVE the ocean. LOVE. I don't like going with kids bc I can't go in as far as I want. I would be at the beach at least once a week if it were closer. If you go during high tide, you can go out quite a ways and it not be very deep, due to the sandbar. (at least that's what I recall about the beach at CL) Man, I am so eager to go, I hope we get to go this week (we will just be going to charleston - need more $$ for a NC roadtrip )

Oh, and hooray for romantical thoughts! LOL I told DH one of the plus sides to pregnancy is that he doesn't have to worry about condoms for a while 

I think this baby is a boy. The pregnancyh reminds me more of Gabe's than Norah's.

And yes, going with a group of people anywhere is way more fun. and less challenging.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Glad you went JJ!!

I don't really like the ocean/water part. I put my feet in or go up to my knees but I don't like the unpredicatability of the water. I love going in to my waist or dunking down when I'm in the carribbean, or hawaii, and I can see thru the water. But if it's the Jersey shore, forget it. It scares the crap out of me and makes me feel dirty (like filthy dirty, like I need a shower).

Chris got home about 9 last night and I had both kids asleep by the time he got home! It was nice b/c we sat and drank wine and chatted about our week. I'm a little bummed he made plans to go running this morning. He left just before 8. Idk. I thought he'd want to be here at least when Nora woke up. When he left on Tuesday she was asleep, she was out when he got home last night, and now he's gone again. Eh. I'm just assigning my own feelings to it though. She's always grumpy when she wakes up, and this way she'll be in a better mood when she sees him at last.

I'm going out today! Either by myself or with a friend to see a movie. I almost would rather be alone! LOL! After this week I need a nice spa package or something to reset my batteries. It was rougher than usual! I don't really know why.

I got more AIO dipes, two that I really wanted to try for a long time. There was a sale (30% off) on an itti bitti tutto, and then I picked up a Thirsties Duo fab fitted in size 2. I don't have any sized dipes so I wanted to see how it fits! Can't wait for my fluff! I also bought a custom Oscar the grouch Rumpkinz that's in the wash, I can't wait to get it on Finn's bum and take a picture! It's a-freaking-dorable!!

I have *some* romantical thoughts about DH...I think I'm too burnt out and AF-y today to think about him that way, but soon I bet!! LOL!!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I feel that way about lake water. it's just gross.

JJ: so glad you went and enjoyed yourself!

Man, nausea is kicking in full steam. Joy. (I like it, because it makes me feel the pregnancy is a healthy one. On the other hand, nausea sucks, and the thing that helps most - peppermint - is seriously bad for supply)

Thirsties duo are almost a OS diaper - just 2 staged. I think they are really cute; I just don't have any in the stash. I am trying to decide whether to do cloth from birth, or sposies until my cloth fits. It would give me an excuse to have a shower. I have a local friend that does cloth diaper parties/showers.

I really need to get Gabe potty trained.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Kat ~ I don't think that sandbar is still there at CL. I have gone out in the water and I don't recall being able to walk far. I think it got up to my chest pretty quickly.

Carrie ~ You sound a lot like me wrt the ocean. It just scares me. I love the beach, though. I like sitting in the sun, smelling the salt air and listening to the waves.

I bought a new diaper, too. I can't remember if I told you all that I found someone who makes cute hemp diapers. I got a couple of mediums that fit well. I want to order a half dozen more but I'm not sure on the size. Dylan is right in the overlap between the mediums and larges. I don't want to get a bunch of mediums and have him grow out of them in just a few months, but I don't want to order larges that end up being huge on him. That has happened in the past. I bought larger sized diapers because they were supposed to fit according to weight and measurements but were really big/thick on. So, I ordered one large to see how that fits before I order.

I also ordered some hemp inserts for my Wonderoos and Rainshine Baby pockets. I don't like the way the PFs stick out the back of the Wonderoos since we've got them at full size. It's just a tiny bit so not enough to fold over and tuck in. And, this way I can start using the PFs by themselves since Dylan is walking.

We got a really good deal on some of those sun/rash shirts for the boys yesterday. We were at the mall so ran into Children's Place to get some flip flops for Kellen (He is forever losing his shoes.) and all their summer stuff was on sale. 3 SPF 50 sun/rash shirts for less than $25. The boys also wanted sunglasses but I refused to buy them because they each have at least 3 pairs that they don't wear. I wasn't going to spend money on more. We got home and Ethan looked them up online and found that they are only $1.99 so they want to go back and buy them with their allowance. Geesh! If I had just taken a minute to look at the price and think about the situation, I might have come up with that while we were there so I wouldn't have to make 2nd trip back.

I think we're going to the pool today. We need to go to TRU first to get a floaty for Dylan and maybe one for Kellen.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Oscar the grouch!! Oh my! I can't wait to see that. I miss the old sesame street btw. This new version is crap. We've got a classic classic bert and ernie lightshade in Ten's room. It clashes everything in there, but I've had it in every room I've had since I moved home after school. It only seemed fitting that Ten gets it. And she loves it. If I'm rocking her in there, I have to make sure that she's at an angle she can't see it, otherwise she'll just start at it and giggle.

I traded one of my dipes for a Flip. DH groaned because I'm messing up my all-one-diaper stash, but I'm excited to try it out! lol. I'll probably end up putting it in with my doula lending library.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *onetwoten*
> 
> Oscar the grouch!! Oh my! I can't wait to see that. I miss the old sesame street btw. This new version is crap. We've got a classic classic bert and ernie lightshade in Ten's room. It clashes everything in there, but I've had it in every room I've had since I moved home after school. It only seemed fitting that Ten gets it. And she loves it. If I'm rocking her in there, I have to make sure that she's at an angle she can't see it, otherwise she'll just start at it and giggle.
> 
> I traded one of my dipes for a Flip. DH groaned because I'm messing up my all-one-diaper stash, but I'm excited to try it out! lol. I'll probably end up putting it in with my doula lending library.


That's so funny because my big kids complain about the new SS too! Like they get super pissed about it! I usually FF through Abby's Flying Fairy School because Ava doesn't like it. But she loves Murray and his little lamb, partly I think because her babysitter calls her daughter "mi jita" so she's used to hearing that. Occasionally we catch an old SS on Sprout.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

SUPER bad storm went through my area last night. We didn't lose power thankfully but everyone around us did. It's supposed to be 101 degrees today. I'd lose my mind if we didn't have AC!

Took Ava to the pediatric opthamologist yesterday to look at her clogged tear duct. Both of her tear ducts were clogged at birth but her right one resolved itself. The left one hasn't and her pedi wanted it looked at by her 1 yr visit. He dilated her eyes and said they were fine and gave us three options: 1)do nothing and watch for infection 2)in office procedure requiring her to be restrained for like 5 mins and having something going in her eye while awake or 3) doing that same procedure but under general anesthesia in the OR. We chose option 1 and will reevaluate in 3 months. Number 2 will never happen. We still have trust issues from the last surgery and the procedures done on her while she was awake. I don't know why grownups think that since they can't talk, it's no problem to do traumatic stuff to babies. They know what's going on. And since she's going to need to go to regular dr appts for the rest of her life, we need her to not be afraid of doctors.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Couldn't wait for Ava's birthday to post her story... http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1356965/the-birth-of-my-heart-hero-ava-pauline


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Annie ~ That sounds like a good plan.

JJ ~ I think you asked a while back about sunscreen. I only use zinc or titanium dioxide. Ethan breaks out in a rash from the synthetic chemical ones. I think I have some CA Baby and some from Loving Naturals. The Loving Naturals has non-micronized zinc. The micronized zinc is maybe not safe because it can be absorbed through the skin, if I understand correctly. I got both of those through co-ops. I have yet to find a store around here that sells anything with just minerals for sensitive skin.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Aww go back a few seasons and sesame street is good!! Before Abby, before they started with journey to ernie...it's not as classic as when we were kids but some of the clips are older. Love sesame street!!

Ok..so...had lunch with a friend today. I was gone for like...5 hours. We went to the mall, shopped, chatted, talked about birth, it was amazing. I think...I think im convinced, and ready to admit I truly want to be a labor/birth Doula. Where do I begin???

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Annie- Wow! I know you posted bits and pieces when it was going on, but that is one intense birth story! Mama I am so thankful for you that Ava did all she could before the birth to help you prepare. God really did have you guys in His hands with all of that! I didn't realize that you didn't really get to see her again between the birth and her transfer  I can't imagine how hard that must have been!

Looked at sunscreens today. The only one the store had that looked semi good was the Aveeno stuff, but it was stilll eh. We're going to stop at the health store on our way out tomorrow and see what they've got.

OH! Speaking of. We're doing a last minute hotel night tomorrow for Canada day, at the hotel I work at. It's a super cheap rate, and 50% off food and beverage, and the hotel overlooks the park that does the biggest fireworks. So we're going to go early in the day, walk around and enjoy the park and the activities, and then go back to the hotel, order room service and watch the fireworks from the room. They just opened a big splash pad, so I can't wait to take Tenley to see it! And I'm very proud of DH for agreeing to it, and saying yes without it becoming an overthought huge deal. I am sooo excited to just spend some comfy time as a family. And a king size bed for cosleeping!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Yay Carrie!! DONA is the biggest organization. I LOVED the training workshop they did, though I personally chose not to certify, as I didn't love some of the restrictions that they place on their doulas. I would start reading, and from there so so so much of it, is just attending births! I did a bunch of training before, but that was because I hadn't ever given birth or attended one. Since you have, and you're more familiar with what can be relaxing or help to deal with the pain in labor, I think you're a lot more prepared than I was when I attended my first birth!

Also, I can't say much because who knows who found my profile after the photo was posted on FB from mdc, but someone I know just found out their pregnant, and I'm one of the only people to know, even her husband doesn't know. I am so freaking excited for her, she's got adorable kids, and there's a good chance I'll be her doula.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *onetwoten*
> 
> Annie- Wow! I know you posted bits and pieces when it was going on, but that is one intense birth story! Mama I am so thankful for you that Ava did all she could before the birth to help you prepare. God really did have you guys in His hands with all of that! I didn't realize that you didn't really get to see her again between the birth and her transfer  I can't imagine how hard that must have been!
> 
> ...


Yeah that's actually been one of the hardest things for me with Ava's birth. I *still* have trouble connecting the Ava I was pregnant with and saw that morning in the hospital with the Ava I met in the NICU and have at home now. I've spent hours looking at the pictures from that day to connect the two Avas in my head. It still feels like the Ava I was pregnant with died.

Sunscreen...ugh. Every time I go to Target and start looking at sunscreens, I don't want to commit to any of them. DSD 13 has such sensitive skin and most sunscreens gave her hives when she was little. Ava's skin is super sensitive too like that and I'm worried what the result would be! DSD 13 did do ok w/Aveeno so I guess I could start there. So far, I've just been keeping her in the shade at the water wall.

Yay for hotel time! Even 24 hours away will feel like a vacation!


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *onetwoten*
> 
> Yay Carrie!! DONA is the biggest organization. I LOVED the training workshop they did, though I personally chose not to certify, as I didn't love some of the restrictions that they place on their doulas. I would start reading, and from there so so so much of it, is just attending births! I did a bunch of training before, but that was because I hadn't ever given birth or attended one. Since you have, and you're more familiar with what can be relaxing or help to deal with the pain in labor, I think you're a lot more prepared than I was when I attended my first birth!
> 
> Also, I can't say much because who knows who found my profile after the photo was posted on FB from mdc, but someone I know just found out their pregnant, and I'm one of the only people to know, even her husband doesn't know. I am so freaking excited for her, she's got adorable kids, and there's a good chance I'll be her doula.


Totally agree! Taking the weekend course would be awesome but I don't think it's necessary to certify. I haven't certified and I've attended 5 births and those were all before I was pregnant myself.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Oh I meant to tell you guys. Did you see the pics of Ava playing with the big baby doll on FB? She loves that doll. It's bigger than her. But she likes to hold it, kiss it and try to feed her bottle to the baby. DH and I were laying in bed playing with Ava and the doll the other morning and DH said "She's so funny with this doll. It's almost like she wants to be a big sister."







I just laughed and said "Uh huh!"....gah!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Nutroegena (sp?) sunscreen for sensitive skin always worked ok for us in a pinch. Ethan has extremely sensitive skin and it never caused him to get a rash. It doesn't use chemical sunscreens, just minerals. I haven't been able to find it lately, though, so I don't know if it's still made/sold in stores.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Nutroegena (sp?) sunscreen for sensitive skin always worked ok for us in a pinch. Ethan has extremely sensitive skin and it never caused him to get a rash. It doesn't use chemical sunscreens, just minerals. I haven't been able to find it lately, though, so I don't know if it's still made/sold in stores.


Oooh I saw Nutragena Baby at Target the other day. Maybe I should try that. It looked pretty good.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> Oooh I saw Nutragena Baby at Target the other day. Maybe I should try that. It looked pretty good.


read the label because only the sensitive skin one uses minerals instead of chemicals.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Day one of vacation is boring . Trying to work on potty training, but the boy will sit all day and not do anything. *sigh*

Norah is sleeping well, yay!

Sunscreen, we use a pure and simple one. But we don't have sensitive skin either.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

What's the vacation for, the 4th? Sean has a wacky leave; 12:30 pm today until 6 pm Thursday. That means he has to work Monday, gets Tuesday-Thursday off, and then has to work Friday. If they're going to do that, why not just give them the whole week? Makes no sense. And, of course, Sean doesn't actually get off until about 4:30 today because he's scheduled to get his Blackberry set up. Who was the genius who scheduled that?









Dylan is driving me crazy! He's fussy, fussy, fussy but I don't know what he wants. He keeps acting like he wants to nurse but then just nibbles on me, which doesn't exactly feel good.

We had some crazy weather last night. Just as I was leaving the mall with Ethan and Kellen a wild wind blew in. It was so hard that I had to hold Kellen's hand and pull him to the car. I considered going back into the mall but we only live maybe a mile away. We lost power for a few hours and it rained a bit. Now it's back to hot!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Yeah, originally we intended to come up there, but money is too tight to travel that far.

I can't let Norah nurse like that. Nipples are too sensitive. I have to imagine she is getting enough since she isn't exactly gobbling up the solids offered, and has enough wet diapers. Maybe his tummy is upset? Teething?


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> Yeah, originally we intended to come up there, but money is too tight to travel that far.
> I can't let Norah nurse like that. Nipples are too sensitive. I have to imagine she is getting enough since she isn't exactly gobbling up the solids offered, and has enough wet diapers. Maybe his tummy is upset? Teething?


Bummer that you couldn't travel. How long does it take you to get here?

Yeah, I'm not letting him do that, which then just makes him more fussy. I was thinking teething maybe. He's due for his 1 year molars, especially since all his other teeth were so early. I can't feel anything or get him to open his mouth enough to see.

I thought I might have been getting







Saturday. There was just the slightest bit of brownish once when I wiped and I was crampy. But since then all I've had is lots of what appears to be ewcf. Maybe I'm Oing. That would also explain the romantical thoughts about dh.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> Yeah that's actually been one of the hardest things for me with Ava's birth. I *still* have trouble connecting the Ava I was pregnant with and saw that morning in the hospital with the Ava I met in the NICU and have at home now. I've spent hours looking at the pictures from that day to connect the two Avas in my head. It still feels like the Ava I was pregnant with died.


Yeah, I can see how that would be hard. The baby you prepared for is almost 'gone' now, and the Ava you have is a totally new baby with new needs and concerns.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> Oh I meant to tell you guys. Did you see the pics of Ava playing with the big baby doll on FB? She loves that doll. It's bigger than her. But she likes to hold it, kiss it and try to feed her bottle to the baby. DH and I were laying in bed playing with Ava and the doll the other morning and DH said "She's so funny with this doll. It's almost like she wants to be a big sister."
> 
> ...


Too funny!! We need to get Ten a doll. I'm torn between finding a vintage cabbage patch type doll, and forking out some dough and getting her a good waldorfy doll.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> Sunscreen, we use a pure and simple one. But we don't have sensitive skin either.


Yay for sleep!!

I use whatever on myself, and have never really thought about it, but I want to try to find one with a bit less chemicals in it for Ten. I'm pretty sure I'm using coppertone though. lol. But yeah, we've just been avoiding the sun for the most part, or only being out for short times. So the beach was the first time she needed it. And then yesterday we were walking around the park, so we put some on her as well. Now I only have half a sample packet left, so it's time to buy some to at least have on hand!

The hotel was really nice. It was such a big deal to me that DH said yes without it being a totally overthought and drawn out guilt trip process, and that totally set the tone for the night. We checked in, and then actually moved rooms, because the first one the A/C was broken. So they put us on the top floor, with a gorgeous view of both downtown and the forks where the fireworks were. We went swimming, which was so awesome, saltwater pool. Then we came back, got ready and walked down to the forks (the park, big tourist destination). We walked around for a bit with Ten in the Boba, got mini donuts, and walked along the river, and then walked back to the hotel. Ordered dinner, which was so good, and I get 50% off, so so much freaking food! We ordered poutine, which was a big enough portion for an entire meal, and then Rob ordered a kobe beef burger and fries, and I ordered my typical clubhouse sandwich and fries. We ordered off the kids menu for Ten, figuring it would give us a bit of extra snacks and stuff for the evening (oh, I'm laughing in hindsight), and the portion was definitely adult sized-- a massive pile of fries and coleslaw, and then two mini grilled chicken sliders on garlic toast buns- one whole chicken breast split between the two. With a tip, it was $34. And then they sent up a free red velvet cake with fresh strawberries for dessert as a surprise. My sandwich comes with avocado which I don't like, so I got them to put it on the side. So Ten had some shredded up chicken breast, half an avocado, a handful of coleslaw and two french fries. It was crazy! She just kept shoveling it in.

After dinner arrived, my 21 year old SIL and her friend got there to spend some time with us, so we finished eating and went back to the pool for a while, and then came back to the room, got changed, we watched out the window for a bit (the hotel is right downtown so it's a crazy view), and then nursed Ten to sleep, she was konked out in like 4 minutes. Put her into the far bed (we got a room with two doubles), and then we all crowded around the window and watched downtown while we waited for the fireworks. Fireworks went off, then Rob and I stayed up for another 30 minutes or so listening to stuff on the fire/ambulance scanner, and watching out the window, and then went to bed. Ten slept pretty well, and then we all woke up shortly before 8, got packed, ordered breakfast, showered and headed home. All in all it was such a nice relaxing evening away, and so nice to spend time as a family.

And then we got home.

Last night after my SIL got to the hotel, she laughed and told us that while she was at our house grabbing some drinks to bring, she dropped a can, it got a hole in it, and she had to wipe down all the cupboards, haha, it was a mess, but she cleaned it up, though the cupboards probably need another wipedown.

Let's put it this way... We got home at like 11, it's 12:50pm now, and my MIL just left, after coming over to help us clean up the atrocity that was our house (SIL is at the beach all day).

Ok, so this is the view (old old picture, but you get it,) from our front window/entry. To the right where you can see the room with the brown wall, is the kitchen. Straight ahead is our room, just to the right of that is Tenley's room, and behind the loveseat is the bathroom. She dropped a can of cherry dr pepper, in the kitchen. It hit pretty much every single surface pictured in this photo, as well as ALL of the kitchen. Like everything on our kitchen table, inside one of the cupboards that was open, INSIDE the bowl of my kitchenaid mixer, on the ceiling... Thankfully both bedroom doors were closed, so only the doors got coated, but the bathroom was open, so we had to wash the walls, the tile, the vanity, and the countertop. In the living room the walls were coated, the front window, (which remember, is BEHIND ME in this photo!), Tenley's playmats which are under where I'm standing in this photo, both couches, the TV, my laptop which was on the coffee table in front of the couch. It coated her pack and play, which is currently beside the loveseat, and her high chair, which was in between the two. There's also currently a buffet that sits in between the couch and loveseat on the wall on the left there. It has our photo albums on it. Yup. Sprayed. The floor was coated- I had to get down on my hands and knees and wash the entire thing. Thank God that rug no longer exists, it would have been toast.



So.... yeah. That was a sucky way to spend our first two hours home after our staycation. Down on my hands and knees scrubbing my gross floor, and walls and every surface imaginable. So now, we're tired again, frustrated, and 2.5 hours behind where we wanted to be today. On the upside... the house is very clean now!

Ok. So, going to go catch up on email and other work now, and finish enjoy our day as a family.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

July Thread: http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1357121/july-2012-rockstar-mamas

IDK Kat. I think the group is due for another girl.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Boo to bitey babies, sensitive nipples, birth trauma (







), and huge soda messes! Ugh ugh!

I have a baby that won't nap! Gah!! Yesterday he skipped his 2nd nap and today he fought it as well. I'm waiting 10 more minutes before I try again. Send me patience. I'm NOT ready for him to take one short nap a day!!!

We have tooth #4! It broke thru!

What else?

Since deciding to pursue being a doula my baby fever is all but GONE. I'm trying to figure out if that's why or if it's just that things are a bit harder lately. Not sure.

MW - strange about the brown. Hmm. Maybe it is/was O? Go figure? My cycle was def annovulatory. I'm eager to see what this cycle brings. Going to probably be more diligent about temping just to see.

JJ - your staycation sounds lovely! I'm sorry you had to come home to such a mess, but at least b/w good food and good memories, it was worth it!!!

I STILL have a sinus infection. All I want to do is sit on my ass and eat carbs.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Dylan's been taking only 1 nap in the middle of the day for at least a week now. It's actually making it a lot easier to go out and do things.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Mine took a short 45 min nap in the morning, around 11. Usually he's ready again by 330 and goes right down again till 5 or so. Love that nap!! Today, he really fought it. Popping on and off, laughing, smiling at me., so cute but so frustrating. As soon as i give up, he'd start wailing and rubbing his eyes!!

Tomorrow they're doing take your baby to the matinee at our movie theater., id love to go, but it's rock of ages, which id love to see, but i'd have to bring nora too. What do you guys think of a kid her age being there for a pg 13 movie? Sex, risque dancing, language, drinking, etc? I think it's not worth it.

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I wouldn't go. I don't know what Rock of Ages is. I have let Ethan and Kellen watch PG-13 movies, Jurassic Park and Captain America, Avatar, maybe. Are those pg-13? I'm more bothered by sex and drug use than violence.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

^Me too.

Rock of ages plot summary: http://www.fandango.com/rockofages_v476995/plotsummary


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I am not a Tom Cruise fan and just have no desire to see it. But that's me.

Gabe was funny last night - I laid down with him for bed time and he cuddled up to me, said nurse, and made nursing/slurpy sounds for a while. He has tried to actually nurse before with no success, I guess he lost his latch, and I have no desire what so ever to try to nurse 3 babies. (one toddler and two babies)

I am tired, but since I now know why I am tired, it doesn't seem so bad. because I am embracing it rather than fighting it perhaps?

Lake time today! whoohoo - love being in the water!

Boo for non-napping babies.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Yay for lake time!!!

Weird... I posted last night, but it's not showing up... anyone see it? It would have been just before kat's last post, I think.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

JJ ~ You have a post in the July thread.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Ahhhh! Got it. My brain just assumed this one was the July. I didn't even bother reading the title.

Carry on then, just wanted to make sure I had actually responded to the things I thought I had!


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