# anyone not get social security #s for kids



## peace_lily_mama (Oct 14, 2003)

just wondering, and if not, please explain why?
we haven't got one and we are hesitant to get one for ds. i know we won't get deductions without it... ???


----------



## Nurturing Mama (Nov 11, 2003)

Well, our son has had his SSN since he was born. Just curious, though, why are you hesitant to get it?


----------



## Jennifer Z (Sep 15, 2002)

My dh's cousin (more like SIL) didn't for her son initially. They did it primarily to stay off the grid and avoid governmental interference. You can't claim the deduction without them, but they didn't owe any taxes anyway, so that wasn't an issue for them.

Now, due to a divorce and the need for health insurance for him, the dad (who has custody) is having to go through the process of trying to get it and it is a PITA since he was born in a different state than they now reside. (BTW, getting a SSN was something they both agreed to and is not an issue of contention between them...in fact, it is an entirely ammicable divorce..they just needed to follow different paths)

I know he is a member here, but he doesn't have ready access to a computer so he doesn't post much, but I hope he can give a more thorough explanation. I know it was a well thought out decision and believe they are only obtaining it now because of the change of circumstances and they feel rather "forced" to.


----------



## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

First let me say that I got a SSN for all of my four homeborn children.

The reason that someone may not want to get one for their child is because the SSN is a complete record of who you are and where you have been.

W/ someone's SSN, you know when and where they were born, when and where they went to school, when and where they first worked, how much $ they made, where they went to college, what degrees they have, credit rating, criminal records, automobile accidents, traffic tickets, driving record (since most states use the SSN for the DL#), law suits, bank accounts, property owned, marriages, divorces, military service record (since the military uses the SSN# for their identification number), # offspring.

This may be convenient for some, but for me, I do not want just anyone, especially government officials, to have unlimited access to everything about me. Also getting rid of wrong information is a PITA.

I am a landlord, and I use the SSN with permission to check the credit of prospective tenants. I know with an additional fee, I can find out almost anything about a prospective tenant.

The SSN# is in three parts: the first part is a government code for the state you applied in. This may have changed to the state you were born in since most people apply for their child at birth; the second part is a government code for the year you were born or applied for your SSN#; the third and last part, the four numbers, is actually YOUR identification number.

People who do not apply for a SSN# for their child are making a political statement, I feel. They cannot use their child as a deduction on their income taxes, and perhaps they plan to homeschool their child also.

I have also known of homebirthing people who do not register their child's birth - no birth certificate.

I feel this is a political statement, and I respect it although this is not the path I have chosen for myself.


----------



## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

There was a thread about this a few months ago.

Do a search; it should still be open.


----------



## peace_lily_mama (Oct 14, 2003)

oooh, thanks!


----------



## momsgotmilk4two (Sep 24, 2002)

Is not getting a birth certificate or ss # really fair to the child though? They are going to have to deal with a lot of crap when they get older due to not having it. A rather large price to pay for thier parents political "statement" don't you think?


----------



## weetzie (May 29, 2003)

I agree with the previous post. I understand the desire to keep the gov't out of ones life, but having personal knowledge of what not having a SS# can do and how it can impact a life, I wont hesitate to get one for my children. Sorry--i wish i could give examples, but i will not say more on a public board


----------



## luvmy3boys (Sep 16, 2003)

Quote:

The SSN# is in three parts: the first part is a government code for the state you applied in. This may have changed to the state you were born in since most people apply for their child at birth; the second part is a government code for the year you were born or applied for your SSN#; the third and last part, the four numbers, is actually YOUR identification number.
Sorta







T, but I am really







: about this and have to ask if you are sure? The reason I ask is because dh and I were born in different states (and our parents applied for ss # for us in the states we were born) and our first numbers are the same....and my sister, both my parents, and my first numbers differ, but were all applied for in the same state. Also, dh, my sister and my ss #s were applied for in the same year and none of the second part of numbers are the same.


----------



## simonee (Nov 21, 2001)

T

Only the first digit is a code, for "region of the country" ~ so ppl from somewhat nearby states may ahve the same digit there, but (say) a first digit of "5" is always West Coast

the rest is arbitrary


----------



## luckylady (Jul 9, 2003)

There was a website I had bookmarked about this guy who had no SSN and all the fights he had trying to NOT have one. He has valid points - I mean, no where does it say that you HAVE to have one. It was voluntary at one point (isn't that how things always start out)? BUt he couldn't get electricity turned on, no drivers liscense...

it's just not worth it. DH and I used to talk about "going under ground" when were young artist rebels LOL. Now I don't care. Let them know about me. I have nothing to hide anyway.


----------



## Delilah (Sep 2, 2002)

On a tangent:
From Jennifer Z:
"You can't claim the deduction without them, but they didn't owe any taxes anyway, so that wasn't an issue for them. "

If they had income, they probably paid taxes. The deduction might have gotten them a refund. Possible?

We cherish the deduction for our kids. We feel like we pay plenty in regressive sales taxes already, so any legal way we can lower our federal obligation is helpful to saving for our kids' futures.


----------



## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Quote:

There was a website I had bookmarked about this guy who had no SSN and all the fights he had trying to NOT have one. He has valid points - I mean, no where does it say that you HAVE to have one. It was voluntary at one point (isn't that how things always start out)? BUt he couldn't get electricity turned on, no drivers liscense...
They ask for your SSN for everything, even getting telephone service. It wasn't originally intended to be a form of identification. Does anyone know what it was originally meant for?
And I have also heard that it is voluntary but who could survive without one? You're not allowed to drive or, say, have electricity! Stupid government.


----------



## MelMel (Nov 9, 2002)

yes, why should you be forced into a system because of the random area of chalk lined land you were born into.

i find it absurd to have to claim citizenship to a country, and enslave yourself to their numbering system.

i also think anyone should have the right to opt out, as well as their offspring.

why is the ssn a primary form of id now? it is required constantly, yet is supposed to be cherished and valuable and dangerous if misused...

abuse of these systems is rampant....infant pku testing smacks to me of a great way to get a nice dna record of every human born in the usa.

sorry about typos and spelling, nak'ing and tired


----------



## vein (Mar 7, 2003)

If we didn't *need* the refund we'll be getting, I wouldn't have gone to sit in the local social security office two weeks ago for an hour to get a SSN for Gavin. In an ideal world we wouldn't have gotten one for him and if he chose to later on as an adult, he could have gotten one himself.

You can do everything you can without a SSN, but for most systems it's "easier" to have a uniform ssn entry so some places will attempt to say that you must have one. (And yes, you are allowed to drive if you don't have one, and likely you can get electricity/phone service as well using a tax id, however, I've not attempted it)

I find it disturbing how eager people are to hand out their ssn to anyone who asks for it. Given the high incidences of identity theft, more people should hesitate to give it out to non government agencies who do NOT need it. (A few years ago I had to get a new Blockbuster video card - they asked for you to include your ssn! I left it blank, but I'm sure many others blindly put it down)

I'd write more on the subject, but I'm at my parents and with the 5 minutes every few days I have online, it's just not enough.









Ohh, before I forget, MelMel: that's why we didn't get a PKU done - Michigan banks the dna info for *22* years, not optional, and by having the pku done you agree that they can use that in the future in any way they see fit.


----------



## cottonwood (Nov 20, 2001)

"Is not getting a birth certificate or ss # really fair to the child though? They are going to have to deal with a lot of crap when they get older due to not having it. A rather large price to pay for thier parents political "statement" don't you think?"

Well, you're assuming that is their motive. It could as well be that the parents believe that the children _themselves_ should have the choice of whether to enable the government to keep records on them. After all, once you give the government that information, it's something that can't be taken back.

And as far as I know, the price to pay for giving them that choice is not large at all. When my midwife's teenage children decided they wanted SSNs, they had to go before a judge and swear they were who they were, and birth certificates and SSNs were issued. It took a of couple hours of their time.


----------



## InfoisPower (Nov 21, 2001)

http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd27.htm

I am not vouching for the veracity of this source about SSNs, it is an interesting perspective though.

Being a Canadian, and considering all the money collected for Social Insurance goes to General Revenue coffers of the government instead of a separate investible growth fund, and that they're crying the blues about not enough young people to support the elderly with Social Insurance funds... well you do the math.


----------



## veganmamma (Sep 10, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by DreamsInDigital_
*They ask for your SSN for everything, even getting telephone service. It wasn't originally intended to be a form of identification. Does anyone know what it was originally meant for?*
Um, yeah, it was for paying into and collectiong from Social Security. :LOL
L


----------



## fyrflymommy (Jan 20, 2003)

.


----------



## veganmamma (Sep 10, 2002)

It's my understanding you can use your tax ID number in place of your SSN for things like food stamps. Maybe you should try that, or at least asking about it.
L


----------



## Summertime Mommy (Dec 5, 2003)

I never considerred not getting one. I am thankful we did though, because dd is disabled and recieves SSI. It is a godsend to us.


----------



## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

Dear Summertime mommy:

I am sorry about your DD, but I am glad that you are getting help from the government for her.

Alittle







T, but pertinent,

... when DH applied for his SS early retirement benefits, since he was so sick, he was told he would NOT get any benefits unless they were directly wired into our checking account. We were told this was for 'our' benefit; can we decide what is good for us, please?

I asked,"What if we do not have a checking account?"

I was told by this government worker, "Then you will open one or you will not receive any of your benefits."

WTF?

My DH had been paying into this fund, whether he wanted to or not, for over forty years, and now they are telling him this is the way he will receive HIS $, whether he likes it or not.

I really hate these AUTOMATIC deposit arrangements;

I am responsible for my checking account balance, yet magically, electronically deposited funds can appear "on or about the 15th of the month" - what exactly does that mean?

It means, "When we feel like it".

Actually, I DO know why they wanted it wired into our joint checking account.

When DH died, they were able to WITHDRAW ELECTRONICALLY.

AND THEY DID.

I reported his passing within two weeks, a very timely manner.

Within six weeks, there was a $2,500.00+ withdrawl from my checking account. I had checks bouncing all over the place; I was never notified that this would occur - I would have planned accordingly.

I was notified by mail that I was an "unsuitable" person for my DS's benefits to be received as a beneficiary. Odd, I am his mother, and if I am unsuitable, who decided that? You cannot be denied life, liberty or property without due process. Where is/was my due process? I deemed unsuitable by someone who has never met me? By some paper shuffler?

Arrogance.

Sloppiness.

Government workers.

Wait till you have to depend on them.

You will know what I mean.

When DH died, I was waited on by the most nasty, arrogant person in the department. She told me to shut up and stop yelling. I was not. By the time I left her desk, I was using sign language and writing down messages.

That is my rant.

Social Security is a monolithic nightmare of a monster of an agency.

There is no "SECURITY" here.


----------



## merpk (Dec 19, 2001)

applejuice, that was a very eye-opening story.


----------



## Jennifer Z (Sep 15, 2002)

I know you can't get financial aid for college without a SSN. We tried to refuse to put our numbers on college paperwork at KSU, and they told us there was no way we could receive the Pell Grant, Scholarships, or Financial Aid. I also had problems with several professors that required you to write your entire SSN on the top of all your hand-ins and then posted grades, for all to see, by SSN. When I objected in one class, he was absolutely flustered and quite annoyed...he said that in all his years of teaching, no one had ever questioned putting their numbers on their papers. (this was for one of those general ed classes with 500+ people in each class, and he taught around 5 classes a semester for years).

We also got into it with the student ID people who refused to use an alternate number printed across the ID. (yes...student IDs consisted of your picture, with your SSN#, and you had to present it everywhere you needed a student ID.) They about went nuts when we refused to get an ID, insisting that we *had* to have them. We discovered that faced with no ID, but listed on the class roster, profs accepted your DL as ID. (in our state you can choose an alternate number or have it be your SSN...we chose an alternate)

We also got into a major arguement with the Network Admin about them wanting to us to use our SSN as an ID number.

We wrote so many letters that semester outlining why it was a bad idea, what the SSN are supposed to be used for, and that they needed to change their system because of identiy theft issues (a fairly new phenomena then). We left after that sememster and went back to WSU, where you can just write your name on the paper. Much better!

When we went online recently (like in the last few weeks) to get a transcript, they had a thing on there about not using your ssn for student ID's anymore. Gotta admit...after all the times we were told we were being paranoid and unreasonable...dh & I laughed our butts off!


----------

