# 11 to gyn just because...???



## EStreetMama (Sep 5, 2003)

Is there any reason to take an 11 year old to a first gyno check-up if there are no problems?

This is for DSD...I would not take her myself but wanting to give info to DH.

TIA, mamas!!!


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## onyxravnos (Dec 30, 2006)

If she isn't having any problems (hormones/PMS/weird cycles) and there isn't a history of problems in either side of her family (tipped uterus/tube issues/etc) then I can't imagine a reason you would take her to a gyn... Unless you think she's sexual active or might be sexual active sometime soon.


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## hellyaellen (Nov 8, 2005)

i second that. i know i wouldn't have wanted to go at that age and i don't think it did me any harm by waiting. i didn't go until i was 19 or 20.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

I don't see any real reason if there is no....real reason lol. I went when I was 13 for the first time, but I was sexually active. Dd is 13 and we don't plan on her going for some time unless some health reason pops up.


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## EStreetMama (Sep 5, 2003)

Thanks, mamas. I wholeheartedly agree but needed some backup to show DH.

Her mom is wanting her to have the appointment, not us. DH needs to talk to her about it but he had no idea what the usual situation is.

So now he does!!!

Thanks very much!!!!


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## BrooklynDoula (Oct 23, 2002)

I wonder why her mom wants her to go. I see no harm in her going, especiall if there is any chance she is sexually active and might be able to get important information from an appointment. If she has started her cycle (did not read that one way or the other) it could be a good thing for her. In the end it seems like the decision should be hers to make since it is her body.

I went at 14. But, I did not have a cycle until almost 14, so that was way. I was having sex at 14 and was glad I started going BEFORE that and not after.


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## EStreetMama (Sep 5, 2003)

I think she wants to get her in there to get the HPV/vaccine







:

We hope that she will not be having sex for quite awhile, but she did just get her period. She's entirely healthy though and has not had any issues per her report, so...


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## BrooklynDoula (Oct 23, 2002)

Yeah, the vax would not be a compelling reason to go IMO and if she is not dating and such I would at least wait until 12 or 13) or when she starts to do more than kiss other people).


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## sincitymama (Sep 20, 2003)

I can't think of any good reason, unless she either wants to go, has a problem, or is sexually active/close to it.

The only thing I can think is maybe she *wants* to go and went to mom instead of dad to ask? Possible she has some sort of period issue she is embarrased about and asked her mother not to discuss with anyone? But if she is comfortable about it and willing, I can't see the harm. Maybe she has questions about puberty/sex she prefers to ask a doctor?

Did her mother have related health issues around that age, or happen to be sexually active at a very young age? I can see those as reasons she might think it's a good age to bring her daughter.

I think I was around 15 the first time I went for an official gyn appointment with pap smear and everything, I was already sexually active then.

If she does go, her regular ped or family doc (I am assuming someone she knows and is familiar/comfortable with) should be able to do the appointment and exam for her.


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## clavicula (Apr 10, 2005)

no way!







:


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## urchin_grey (Sep 26, 2006)

NO WAY would anyone be doing a pelvic exam on my 11yo.... I didn't go until I was 18 (when I became sexually active). There is no reason for a little girl to have to go through that - I would have been scarred for life if my mom made me do that at that age!


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

I wouldn't assume that a GYN would automatically do a pelvic exam on an 11yo just because she's in the exam room.


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## Meg_s (Apr 13, 2006)

If you think she has some issues she wants to talk about, or questions that she might ask a gyn (with you not in the room) that she would not ask you because of age/shyness or whatever that is a reason to go. Otherwise if she is not sexually active or physically well developed (meaning she'll be getting sexual attention from outsiders, like it or not) then there is no reason.


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

She doesn't need to go until she is sexually active, turns 18, or has a problem, whatever happens first. But, if she is WANTING to go, that is fine, too. Maybe she has some questions or is sexually active but does not want to tell her parents that? But there is no NEED to go if she isn't sexually active or having problems at this time. (but other than her, who would REALLY know if she was sexually active?) I say its up to the girl at 11 years old.


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## DoulaClara (Jan 3, 2006)

I don't think anyone should go to the doctor "just because." If there is truly nothing wrong with her, then an appointment and insurance billing will just contribute to the huge insurance problems in this country (assuming you're in the US). You and your husband's gut feelings are right on- find out if she actually needs to go for any reason (even if she doesn't want to go into details with Dad or you, she can say "There is a reason, and I do want to be seen."). If not, then let her know she can make her own boundaries with her very own body.

Clara


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## beckyand3littlemonsters (Sep 16, 2006)

*11 seems a little young to see gyn*

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sincitymama* 
I think I was around 15 the first time I went for an official gyn appointment with pap smear and everything, I was already sexually active then.

*smear at 15 that seems very young i'm 24 and have 3 kids and have never had one*


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

I didnt go to a gyno. until I was pg. I didnt have a pelvic until I was 21years old and only then because I was getting married and was going on the Depo shot. It was a GP not a gyno.

My dd wont be going unless she has problems until she wants/needs to go.


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## love2all (Dec 13, 2003)

beckyand3littlemonsters said:


> *11 seems a little young to see gyn*
> 
> [I totally agree with that..jmo..


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *urchin_grey* 
NO WAY would anyone be doing a pelvic exam on my 11yo.... I didn't go until I was 18 (when I became sexually active). There is no reason for a little girl to have to go through that - I would have been scarred for life if my mom made me do that at that age!

Yeah that. I didn't have a pelvic until I was 22, and I was even a little scared then.

I would HOPE a pelvic wouldn't be involved, but that's what gyns do, right? You bring the car into the shop, they're going to want to take a look under the hood, kwim?


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## 2tadpoles (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beckyand3littlemonsters* 
smear at 15 that seems very young i'm 24 and have 3 kids and have never had one

Most mainstream health practitioners recommend Pap smears for sexually active females.

There's no reason for a sexually inactive 11yo girl to see a gynecologist. I used to work in an OB/GYN office, and the only time I can recall seeing such a young girl was when a 12yo stuck a mini Koosh Ball in her vagina and couldn't get it out.

Poor kid.


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## myjulybabes (Jun 24, 2003)

It's my understanding that if she's not having problems, then she doesn't "need" to go until she's 18 or sexually active, whichever comes first.

But like some others have said, I'd ask her. Tell her she doesn't need to give you the details if she doesn't want to, just let you know that she does have a reason to want to go...or doesn't, and doesn't want to go.


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## momuveight2B (Mar 17, 2006)

We see a female pediatrician who discusses any issues privately with the girls. She has always told me there is not a reason for a pelvic until a girl becomes sexually active.


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

I would question any GYN doctor that would examine a child just because or even for the HP vax. She can get that at the ped's office (even though I wouldn't give it).

If mom suspects something she needs to be talking to dad.

I went to a GYN at 12 before I was sexually active because of chronic yeast infections that the ped stop coming back. I was already informed but my mom re-informed me on what a GYN consist of.


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## Malva (Nov 2, 2005)

I started getting an annual pap at 14 when I became sexually active.

I think it's important to start going regularly as soon as one is sexually active and irresponsible to wait until one is 18 or something like that. I wouldn't want a symptom-less std or cervical problem of any kind to go undiagnosed and compromise my daughter's health and fertility.

Edit: But at 11? Not needed unless she is sexually active, plan on becoming sexually active or has some questions she would prefer to ask a GYN.


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## sincitymama (Sep 20, 2003)

Going to the 'gyn' (which at her age should be not much more than any other appointment with her pediatrician or family practitioner, whoever sh enormally sees) does not necessarily mean a pelvic exam. If it's so just so her mom can get her the vax, I think that stinks but it's also not a reason to see a specialist. Her regular doc should be able to give it to her if that's what this is all about.

I don't see why, as a sexually active 15 year old, I *shouldn't* have had a pap smear and everyhting? That's when it's recommended, in fact I was late because I should have done it BEFORE I had sex. It's not like a pap is some big deal, it was hardly the main event of that appointment (the bc was! lot's of ?'s). I wouldn't recommend it for 11 yo without a very compelling reason. I guess I just didn't automatically assume a child that age having a gyn appoiontment would mean doing those sort of tests, there is no reason for them.


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## Mama Dragon (Dec 5, 2005)

I'm assuming the the HPV vaccine







: Stay away......far, far away!


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## guestmama9908 (Jan 23, 2007)

I didn't go to the GYN the first time until I was 19 years old and became sexually active.

I absolutely refused to go when I was a girl. My mom tried to talk me into it and I just would not go for it. I had read and had been told there was no reason to go the first time until you were sexually active. I told my mom that and she thankfully respected my opinion.

The nurse at my FP office used to drive me nuts everytime I went in for a visit as an 11 year old on. She would always ask if I had been to the female doctor yet. I would tell her no. She would then insist that the Dr. needed to do a pelvic exam while I was there. I always lied to her and told her I had my period.









My DD won't be going anywhere near a GYN until she is sexually active and ready to go. Even then I will probably take her to a midwife instead.


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## littlest birds (Jul 18, 2004)

Maybe the mom is really uncomfortable and/or unknowledgeable talking about sexuality and sexual health with her dd, and since she is entering womanhood wants some professional support. That would be my first guess--

Maybe she simply thinks it is responsible to always turn to health experts and for some reason has the idea that this is the healthy things to do once one enters puberty fully--or any time anything new is going on with one's body and health whether there is something wrong or not.

I fully disagree, but I think quite a few people would fall into one or both of these characterizations.


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## littlemizflava (Oct 8, 2006)

i say only if there is a health problem that the gp cant diagnose i had problems when i was younger and i still didnt to go to one it was just my gp that did the tests and sent me for ulrasounds


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## notneb (Aug 31, 2006)

If she is sexually active, having abnormal periods or for some other reason she or her mother think that a pelvic exam is necessary, one option might be to see if her ped (especially if she has a female ped) will do the exam. Especially if her ped has a lot of adolescent patients, they will likely be able and willing to do a pelvic exam/pap smear, etc. I certainly wouldn't rule out the possibility that she would have a legitimate reason to have these things done but not want to tell you and her father about it. Having a doctor she knows might be much less frightening than having an exam done by a doctor who is a stranger to her.


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## ACampbell (Jan 31, 2007)

No harm in her going. Heaven knows she'll have to make regular trips all her life! It may be better for her while she's younger, less scared and has Mom to hold her hand. I had to see an ob/gyn when I was in middle school and it was absolutely awful. I wouldn't wish that kind of experience on anyone.


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ACampbell*
It may be better for her while she's younger, less scared and has Mom to hold her hand. I had to see an ob/gyn when I was in middle school and it was absolutely awful. I wouldn't wish that kind of experience on anyone.

Why would it be less scary while she's younger?







Why can't she go when she's 14 or 16 or 18 or whenever and still have her mama to hold her hand?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sincitymama*
in fact I was late because I should have done it BEFORE I had sex.

I know it's recommended to see a gyn before having sex if you want Rx birth control, but what's the sense in a pap before?

I think there is potential harm inherent in a young girl on the cusp of womanhood getting the idea that her vagina is there for strangers to poke around in. Jeez, let her get used to it on her own terms before you invite everyone over for a look-see. I also think there's danger in the types of scare tactics a mainstream medical practitioner is likely to tell her, between trying to sell Gardasil, convincing her that penises are the enemy, and that she should sign up for hormonal birth control for the next 40 years.


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sincitymama* 
It's not like a pap is some big deal, it was hardly the main event of that appointment (the bc was! lot's of ?'s).

I disagree, a pap is EXTREMELY invasive, and I think I would have been VERY scared to have one at 11... if my mom had brought me at that age I can only hope that I would have had the guts to say NO! Even now, it's a procedure I dread, and from what I hear from other women, I'm not alone. And an 11 year old isn't a woman...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ACampbell* 
No harm in her going. Heaven knows she'll have to make regular trips all her life! It may be better for her while she's younger, less scared and has Mom to hold her hand. I had to see an ob/gyn when I was in middle school and it was absolutely awful. I wouldn't wish that kind of experience on anyone.









This doesn't make sense to me... first you say no harm in going, and maybe it'll be better being younger. Then you say the next sentence that it was "absolutely awful" when you went as a child, and you "wouldn't wish that kind of experience on anyone." Which is it?


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## sincitymama (Sep 20, 2003)

I was only saying that the pap wasn't a big deal *for me*. And I've said here that I can't think of a good reason an 11 yo should have one.

I do think it can be valuable to start this stuff Before a woman becomes sexually active. For lots, maybe most, that will be a much older age than I started. I do think it's good to have some test results ahead of time, so they can be compared later if necessary, so if there are any problems you can see how much change there has been.

I've only said it's fine for a girl that age to have a more grown-up style gyn appointment If She Wants To. I simply haven't seen any information on what this girl actually wants or feels, which is what should matter. Ask the child. And that an appointment can be done without the pap smear. And it should be handled by her regualar ped or whomever she normally sees, they see older children/teens too and barring a real need for a specialist there's no reason to see someone new.

Perhaps I was just exeptionally lucky in how I've been treated. My first appointment with pap and everything was with a very kind female nurse practitioner I was comfortable with, I made the appointment myself, she was very gentle and explained everything she was going to do and why and what to expect every step of the way. The male family physician I saw later, and took ds to, was also very gentle and considerate and respectful and so I have no negative or traumatic experience with these things.

Just ask the daughter about it. Her wishes and comfort are the primary concern.


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sincitymama* 
I do think it's good to have some test results ahead of time, so they can be compared later if necessary, so if there are any problems you can see how much change there has been.

So are you talking about things other than a pap? Because a pap is a +/- thing, so there's not much to compare. And it's checking for something which is caused by an STD. I just don't see the point in doing that before sex. But maybe some people would want to be checked for hepatitis or HIV before having sex if they think they'd had some sort of danger for that, like a blood transfusion.

But if someone desires one, I don't see the point in denying them that either. I just have trouble imagining someone desiring a pap for no apparant reason.

Ftr, I have never had a pap that didn't cause me bleeding and pain for days. I do wonder if the cumulative trauma can add up and cause cervical problems. I've been avoiding them for a few years.

(my 2nd paragraph in the last reply wasn't directed at you btw, it was just a general commentary on the whole discussion here. sorry if it seemed harsh.







)


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## littlest birds (Jul 18, 2004)

I think it is morally wrong to subject an 11yo virgin to an internal exam for general reasons.

I would think a visit would be more of a general "intro" to the topics of women's health and sexual safety.

Is there much precedent for pelvic exams on young girls? It seems 100% inappropriate to me.


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## sincitymama (Sep 20, 2003)

Yes, I'm including things other than the pap I guess. Maybe it has to do with my 80's childhood and everyone so afraid of hiv/aids. When I think of a gyn check-up, I think of the pap, birth control/fertility chats, breast check, yeast/other issues, period issues....and a full std work-up, including blood tests and any necessary swabs.
I do happen to think it's good for both sexes to have this all done Before sex, if for no other reason than to assure your partner 100% that you've been tested and have no infections or other problems. Maybe my high school health classes just did an exceptional job of brainwashing me









And no, you aren't too harsh at all. I'm glad of people questioning me so I can clarify for everyone that I'm not saying 11 year old girls should all be out getting pap smears! I would have been mortified at that age. Just that htere can be a lot more to that sort of visit than an internal exam.

Sorry if I've been going too far OT.


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## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

I think the most important thing is whether or not the girl herself wants to go. And she needs to know that she can just go talk to the doctor and she doesn't have to have an exam if she doesn't want it. That is absolutely the bottom line.

Maybe she does just have questions about sex, tampons, STDs, birth control, Gardasil, whatever and doesn't want to talk to her parents about it.

But if she doesn't want to see the gyn, and her mom is trying to force her into it, I'd be on the girl's side and try to talk mom out of it.

The following may contain triggers: When I was ten, I was forced, very much against my will to submit to a pap and pelvic exam. It was the most traumatic event of my life, and I consider myself raped.


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## wasabi (Oct 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GooeyRN* 
She doesn't need to go until she is sexually active, turns 18, or has a problem, whatever happens first. But, if she is WANTING to go, that is fine, too. Maybe she has some questions or is sexually active but does not want to tell her parents that? But there is no NEED to go if she isn't sexually active or having problems at this time. (but other than her, who would REALLY know if she was sexually active?) I say its up to the girl at 11 years old.

Ditto. If she wants to go fine. If the mom wants her to have the HPV vax well argh on that but still she can get that from the ped. No need to take her to a gyn and especially no need for a pap or pelvic.


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## EStreetMama (Sep 5, 2003)

Thanks for all the opinions and info. I TOTALLY agree and now after hearing of all these posts...DH does too.

It turns out that her mom DID schedule the appointment for the sole purpose of getting the HPV vax without having agreement from DH. Grrrrr...

So DH left work and showed up at the appointment and told her (the mom) he wasn't comfortable doing more than getting info today.









This is really challenging because I am not the parent, but I am glad DH insisted on participating in the decision-making around the vaccine.

So...she will still push for it but at least we bought some time for further discussion.


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## sincitymama (Sep 20, 2003)

Well good for you husband for getting involved. And honestly, even if they decide to get htat vax can't her regular doctor do it? Why make a special appointment with a gyn?

Glad to hear she won't be forced into any invasive exams against her wishes!


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## mommysusie (Oct 19, 2006)

I think it would traumitize a girl to go that early unless there were problems that need to be addressed. I could see taking her just for the HPV vaccine though, but I think she is way too young for a pelvic exam.


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## canadianchick (May 18, 2005)

Wow, dd is 10 and I can't even imagine taking her for a gyn appt unless something was seriously wrong.


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## GalateaDunkel (Jul 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *paquerette* 
I think there is potential harm inherent in a young girl on the cusp of womanhood getting the idea that her vagina is there for strangers to poke around in. Jeez, let her get used to it on her own terms before you invite everyone over for a look-see.









:


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## Marcee (Jan 23, 2007)

I would have been scared to death to go at 11. It was bad enough going at 20 (after I got married and was pg).


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## JustJamie (Apr 24, 2006)

My mom took me to the gyn for the first time 2 weeks after I got my first period. I was 9. I've gone yearly since then, and I'll do the same for my DD - schedule the appt. when she gets her first period.

Then again, my family has a history of cervical/uterine/ovarian cancer, so perhaps our circumstances are different than the norm. I see absolutely nothing wrong with a yearly exam starting at puberty - I think it's actually a good idea, because it's a good opportunity to have a doctor (who probably knows more than me on this subject) explain the physical changes of puberty, and to discuss pregnancy, STDs, etc. Why wait until she's actually sexually active to teach safe sex?

ETA: I had a pelvic exam at that first appointment. It was intimidating, but my mother stayed in the room with me, and she and the doctor explained to me everything that was going on and what he was looking at/for.


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## AimeeandBrian (Jul 23, 2006)

: I still have never been. I hate doctors, so I am still trying to get my courage up. I wish it had been encouraged earlier because it still would have been socially acceptable for my mom to go with me. When I do go--very soon, I promise--I am taking my mom with me even though I am 23 and married.


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

I had my first pelvic at 13 years old. (I had a yeast infection) I did not find it traumatizing at all. I had one yearly ever since. (well, I skipped last years. I don't have a sitter so its difficult to go to dr.'s appts with a running toddler)


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

This puzzles me. In the UK the only time you would see a gyn is if you have problems with your menstruation, inherited problems or reproductive issues. Even then you would need a referral from your GP.

As an adult I see the nurse at my GP surgery for a cervical smear every three years, if I thought I had a yeast infection then I would get a prescription from my GP and would not need a pelvic exam. I go to my family planning clinic for contraception and could have a smear there too if I wanted. Teens are welcome at the family planning clinic (I have seen plenty there) and condoms are available free there.

During pregnancy no-one goes near your vagina even during labour unless you ask for an exam to check dilation. The less messing around there the better. At ALL times.

VEs on pre-teens? What is going on? Way to pathologise the normal.


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sincitymama* 

I don't see why, as a sexually active 15 year old, I *shouldn't* have had a pap smear and everyhting? That's when it's recommended, in fact I was late because I should have done it BEFORE I had sex. It's not like a pap is some big deal, it was hardly the main event of that appointment (the bc was! lot's of ?'s). I wouldn't recommend it for 11 yo without a very compelling reason. I guess I just didn't automatically assume a child that age having a gyn appoiontment would mean doing those sort of tests, there is no reason for them.

Why would you need a pap before you were sexually active at age 15?


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *orangefoot* 

VEs on pre-teens? What is going on? Way to pathologise the normal.

ITA. I'm glad the OP's stepdaughter's mom isn't planning on that.

Also--isn't anyone remembering the issue of the hymen? Granted, they have smaller size speculums and I would HOPE that they would be more gentle and considerate with the bimanual exam if someone is a virigin--but even as a sexually active adult the comfort and gentleness of pelvic exams/pap smears has varied considerably from one practicioner to another. Why would anyone allow the first person to enter/touch their daughter's vagina be a physician in a possibly traumatic and definitely invasive clinical setting, unless there is some compelling medical reason to do so? To me this is a huge lack of respect for the girl's sexuality and privacy and is incredibly invasive and wrong. Why teach your children about avoiding molestation and "bad touches" etc. and then force them to submit to what is basically the same act in a medical context against their will and for no good reason on the cusp of puberty?

Then again I grew up with an extremely overbearing and invasive mother who didn't recognize my needs for medical or bodily privacy for much longer than appropriate and for much longer than I was comfortable with and was also (and still is) totally sold on doctors as the experts. So I have some bad associations with being dragged to doctors for stupid reasons.


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## Sijae (May 5, 2006)

I can't think of a compelling reason to ever take my DD to an OB/GYN. I've never been to one in my life and have no plans to change that. I really can't imagine taking a child to a doctor for invasive genital contact unless the child wanted it for some reason. It's her body and she should be the one to decide who touches it including doctors. I can't think of anything that couldn't be handled by doing nothing, seeing a midwife, a nurse-midwife or a family doctor as a last resort.

Laura


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## mamaofthree (Jun 5, 2002)

My dd is 12 and not in 100 years would I take her to a gyn for a VE at that age. Just looking at her, her body, she is so small I can't imagine her flopped up on that table legs spread for some stranger to go poking around and cramming a huge metal device in her vagina. Then possibly poking their finger in her butt (which happened to me at my first exam at 15!).
I think it is our jobs as mothers to learn and know about the female body and about the changes that happen at puberty, and be completely ready and open and willing to talk to our daughters about all of it. since when did some man know what it was truly like to get their period?? NEVER. (not that all gyn's are men...)
If I had to take my dd in to see someone for any sort of female "problem" it would be a midwife.
But that is just me.
To the OP. I am very proud of your dh. That takes alot of guts. Good for him, and you for protecting your dsd.

H


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

I didn't go until I was 15 and became sexually active and even then was completely embarrassed to go and went to a clinic.

Quote:

Then possibly poking their finger in her butt (which happened to me at my first exam at 15!).
I am almost 39 years old, had two children and surgeries and have never heard of such a thing being done to a woman by a GYN (or any other doctor)!


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## Amber Lion (Sep 22, 2006)

My sister went for her first exam when she was 13 or so as a virgin because she was having problems with her period. She was very traumatized, still is. That experience is still there in her cell memory and negatively effects her sex life to this day. I agree with whoever said that a girl's first experience with someone inside her vagaina should not be a doctor's cold lubed up speculum forcing her open and a stick to scrape (can we say OUCH!!!) her cervix! Especially when there is no need for it!


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## onelilguysmommy (May 11, 2005)

Im glad the idea was for gardasil though theres no way in heck my kid would be getting that! (the "i wanna be one less!" commercials make me wanna scream!!) Im so glad your dh stood up and stopped, or at least delayed it! yay for him!









I never have gone to a gyn yet, LOL. Ive been to a gp and 2 mw in my life








but I had umm..someone "examin" me at 6, when i had been molested, and it hurt me immensly, that scarred me and still has me scarred for life, im pregnant with my second and still havent had a pap, and had my first internal anything besides cervical checks in labor the day before yesterday.
noones first sexual experience should be some doctor shoving whatever they feel ike into you and rooting around!


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## JustJamie (Apr 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *onelilguysmommy* 
noones first sexual experience should be some doctor shoving whatever they feel ike into you and rooting around!

A pelvic exam is not a sexual encounter. There is nothing erotic about it - for either the doctor or the patient.

It's a routine check that is, IMO, medically necessary, because if there is a problem, how would you know? One of the major arguments against the HPV vax in the vaccine forum is that pelvic exams are done yearly. If you don't have that exam, you invalidate that argument.

I went for the first time when I was 9, as I said. Yes, it was intimidating - but it made me feel MORE comfortable with my own body. My mother asked me if I would prefer a female doctor, or the male doctor she used. I met with her doctor, we all sat in the exam room together, he explained to me exactly what was going to happen, showed me the stirrups, showed me the tools he would be using, and demonstrated on a plastic model. They then left the room to let me get undressed, and came back in a few minutes later. My mom stood at my head and braided my hair during the exam. The doctor performed the exam, and explained to me exactly what was happening at every moment. Afterwards, they left me to get dressed, and came back in again, and we discussed sex, pregnancy, sexually transmitted diseases, symptoms to look for, birth control options, hygiene, and the pros and cons of pads vs. tampons.

It's a good opportunity to educate your daughter about her pubescent body, and I think parents who dismiss it as an unnecessary and invasive procedure are doing their daughters a great disservice.


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## EStreetMama (Sep 5, 2003)

I agree with the educational component for sure. I am just not convinced of the medical necessity of the physical exam without a specific problem.


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

I didn't go to a gyno until I was 15 and wanted BC. I couldn't imagine being that young and having a pelvic. I was even uncomfortable and embarrassed at 15.


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JustJamie* 
It's a good opportunity to educate your daughter about her pubescent body, and I think parents who dismiss it as an unnecessary and invasive procedure are doing their daughters a great disservice.

Well how on earth British women have got on in life without the guidance and interference of gynaecologist I will never know. The whole female polulation of our country is being done a disservice.







:

Is it any wonder the US suffers with a Obstetric led birth culture if young women and girls are shown from the start that doctor knows best?


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## sincitymama (Sep 20, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kavita* 
Why would you need a pap before you were sexually active at age 15?

I was questioned about this comment on page 2. I gave further explanation there.


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## PiePie (Oct 2, 2006)

the earliest i have heard of, absent birth control, is that many colleges make a pap smear a requirement as part of the matriculation materials. but that wouldn't be for many more years.


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sincitymama* 
I was questioned about this comment on page 2. I gave further explanation there.


okay. I looked up your answer. paps don't work that way. I am not sure of what cervical dysplasia/cancer rates are in children who are not sexually active and therefore not at risk for HPV, but I highly doubt that they are highter than infinitesimal. So that all a pap smear would show was that there was no abnormal cervical change. That is not going to tell anybody anything valuable later down the road. It's either "negative" or there is a finding of some type of cervical change from normal. If there IS a finding a year or two or fifteen down the road, it doesn't matter that it was normal in the past. What is going to matter is the degree of change from the baseline state of normal, which is going to be the same for everybody, ie, a healthy cervix, and the pap and subsequent followup at that time will be all that is needed to reveal that. There is no value in getting a "baseline"--it's not a lab value like testing your hemoglobin or something. Even the most conservative medical authorities don't recommend routine pap smears for children who are not sexually active.

Funny, I didn't notice anybody ever going crazy worrying about their 9 or 10 or 11 year old daughters getting HPV and subsequently cervical cancer until Merck decided to convince us that they are all terribly at risk.

As far as the poster who mentioned something about not having ever heard of somebody "sticking a finger in their butt"--it's called a rectal exam, and it is a standard part of a pelvic exam. The examiner inserts a gloved finger into the rectum and uses it to examine the back of the uterus and ovaries, feeling for any masses, etc.


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## sincitymama (Sep 20, 2003)

I know paps don't work that way. What I explained later is that I was referring more generally (and probably not clearly enough) to gynecological visits as a whole. Not recommending them for children, but that it is valuable, IMO, to do it sometime before becoming sexually active. Again, a general visit, not necessarily a pap. I said repeatedly that there is no reason I can think of for a girl that age to have a pap smear or pelvic exam. But if she had questions or concerns, there can be a hell of a lot more to a gyn visit than the pap.

And yeah, I've always known the rectal exam to be a normal part of a pelvic exam. I'm honestly surprised that people are so shocked about it.


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## fishface (Jan 6, 2007)

Quote:



Quote:

Then possibly poking their finger in her butt (which happened to me at my first exam at 15!).
I am almost 39 years old, had two children and surgeries and have never heard of such a thing being done to a woman by a GYN (or any other doctor)!
This gave me a big laugh because the same topic sent me off in a panic a couple years ago. I had to schedule my first pap away from home and away from my GP. She did not do that. I had a friend recommend a practice that accepted my insurance and then I found out her doctor did the finger-up-the-butt routine. Of course it freaked me out. I ended up going to PP instead for BC $$$ reasons and have yet to have that happen to me. After quizzes lots of my friends I've realized it's a normal part of the routine, though not all doctors do it. I could definitely go without it forever.


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## wasabi (Oct 12, 2004)

I think I've had exactly one pelvic over the years that included a rectal exam and it was definitely a surprise to me. Good thing I was 26 and had already have two kids and other procedures before that.

For the PP who had her first pelvis at 9 I am really glad that it all worked out for you. I am. I however cannot imagine having my daughter have a pelvic at age 9. I wouldn't see any reason to take her to the gyn at that age either but I can at least see some benefit in getting information though why I couldn't just talk to her I don't really know but a pelvic at age 9 just because you got your period? No definitely wouldn't go there. 9 is a child whether you've had a period or not and to me you just do not need to be having pelvic exams and so forth in a normal healthy child at that age.


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## fishface (Jan 6, 2007)

:


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## Turkish Kate (Sep 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PiePie* 
the earliest i have heard of, absent birth control, is that many colleges make a pap smear a requirement as part of the matriculation materials. but that wouldn't be for many more years.

And which colleges are those?


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## antannie (Jul 5, 2006)

Am going through this issue with my dd social workers. She is 12 and was taken in to care at 3 and they did vaginal and anal exam then! Poor little bunny. The info is on record and now that she has given them some verbal confirmation about some sexual contact as a child they want her to have another to see what is what.

I don't want that. She says NO WAY and when I took her to the doctor as required by the Ministry for a checkup, her doctor said there was no need. We discussed the HPV vax in case it comes up at school before she is adopted. Our doctor supports her in the leave it alone until she is sexually active and the pap test is a good tool for screening for cervical cancer. I support regular exams for sexually active girls especially if they have had more than 1 partner. I ended up with serious undiagnosed PID which was extremely painful and caused fertility problems and required surgery. And I support EDUCATION. If I had known what I know now (pre Our Bodies Ourselves when I was an adolescent) I may have been able to protect myself or at least recognize that I needed help sooner.

If there was a family history of gyn problems perhaps there may be some cases where an exam might be helpful. Painful periods are not a reason. DD has those as did I and an exam won't do a darn thing to help.

I will fully support my daughter to NOT have the exam, especially because she is so adamant about it. What are they thinking when they want to give a child they think was sexually abused but not giving them ALL the informationan intrusive exam to "find out" Anyway I am hoping to delay that until the final adoption. That could still be 8 months away and they can delay it.


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## mamabadger (Apr 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CalenandEllasmomma* 
The nurse at my FP office used to drive me nuts everytime I went in for a visit as an 11 year old on. She would always ask if I had been to the female doctor yet. I would tell her no. She would then insist that the Dr. needed to do a pelvic exam while I was there. I always lied to her and told her I had my period.









That's horrible! I agree with the PP that a lot of gynecology consists of "pathologizing the normal" and that women - and now, younger and younger girls - are made to feel that their bodies are dysfunctional by nature and need constant attention by medical specialists just to remain alive and healthy.

I also think that not enough respect is given to girls' and women's reluctance in regard to pelvic exams. We teach girls that they have the right to say no to any sexual contact they don't want, but if the man in question is wearing a white coat, it's okay to push them into it.
I can't agree with this comment:

Quote:

A pelvic exam is not a sexual encounter. There is nothing erotic about it - for either the doctor or the patient.
I hear this argument a lot, and I think it misses the point. A situation doesn't have to be "erotic" to be sexual. We're always told that rape isn't about sex, it's about power. Is rape okay if neither party finds it erotic? A reluctant 11-year-old girl being pressured to let a strange man put his fingers up her vagina shouldn't be rationalized into something healthy and normal, IMO.


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## Amber Lion (Sep 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JustJamie* 
A pelvic exam is not a sexual encounter. There is nothing erotic about it - for either the doctor or the patient.


So, if you are sexually abused and do not find it erotic - it wasn't a sexual encounter?







: But I digress...

This is her *yoni* we are talking about. Anything that happens there is going to be sexual and effect her sexually (whether lastingly or fleetingly) - even if the friendly doctor doesn't find it erotic.


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kavita* 
As far as the poster who mentioned something about not having ever heard of somebody "sticking a finger in their butt"--it's called a rectal exam, and it is a *standard part of a pelvic exam*. The examiner inserts a gloved finger into the rectum and uses it to examine the back of the uterus and ovaries, feeling for any masses, etc.

My emphasis

Really? My mind boggles again.

Is this what happens if doctors get paid for the number of times they stick their fingers into places they don't need to? I presume that is what is happening where you are.


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## mamabadger (Apr 21, 2006)

I'm a little surprised at the rectal exam being called "a standard part of a pelvic exam." I've never had one or known of anyone who had one. Is it possible that the standard practice is different here in Canada than in the U.S.?


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## fishface (Jan 6, 2007)

It is part of the pelvic exam but it varies by practitioner. I assume this varies by how the practitioner was taught or methods they prefer (perhaps some feel this is too invasive on top of the pelvic and opt not to, I don't konw). This does not vary by regulations.


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamabadger* 
I'm a little surprised at the rectal exam being called "a standard part of a pelvic exam." I've never had one or known of anyone who had one. Is it possible that the standard practice is different here in Canada than in the U.S.?

I've been to about 10 different gynos and have never had a rectal exam.


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## 2tadpoles (Aug 8, 2004)

If a female has a retroverted uterus (tips backward instead of forward), it can be necessary to examine rectally in order to gauge it's shape and size, and to feel for unusual masses.

Retroverted Uterus

Quote:

Occasionally, it is difficult to differentiate a retroverted uterus from a pelvic tumor. In this case, your health care provider may have to perform a rectovaginal exam.
Also, as you get older, many doctors will do a rectal to check for fecal occult blood, which is a symptom of rectal cancer and a number of other disorders.


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## guestmama9908 (Jan 23, 2007)

Wow! I have a retroverted Uterus! I still haven't had anybody do a rectal exam on me.

They always just comment on the fact that I have a retroverted Uterus and move on.


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## hottmama (Dec 27, 2004)

I have a retroverted uterus, have been to 4 different ob/gyn practices with multiple practitioners at each and no one has ever suggested a rectal exam. I think they must be fairly uncommon.


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## 2tadpoles (Aug 8, 2004)

Note that I said the exam "can" be necessary, and the article says "occasionally."

Pelvic exams are sometimes more difficult on heavy women, as well.


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## spruce (Dec 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JustJamie* 
A pelvic exam is not a sexual encounter. There is nothing erotic about it - for either the doctor or the patient.

It's a routine check that is, IMO, medically necessary, because if there is a problem, how would you know? One of the major arguments against the HPV vax in the vaccine forum is that pelvic exams are done yearly. If you don't have that exam, you invalidate that argument.

I went for the first time when I was 9, as I said. Yes, it was intimidating - but it made me feel MORE comfortable with my own body. My mother asked me if I would prefer a female doctor, or the male doctor she used. I met with her doctor, we all sat in the exam room together, he explained to me exactly what was going to happen, showed me the stirrups, showed me the tools he would be using, and demonstrated on a plastic model. They then left the room to let me get undressed, and came back in a few minutes later. My mom stood at my head and braided my hair during the exam. The doctor performed the exam, and explained to me exactly what was happening at every moment. Afterwards, they left me to get dressed, and came back in again, and we discussed sex, pregnancy, sexually transmitted diseases, symptoms to look for, birth control options, hygiene, and the pros and cons of pads vs. tampons.

It's a good opportunity to educate your daughter about her pubescent body, and I think parents who dismiss it as an unnecessary and invasive procedure are doing their daughters a great disservice.


I could not disagree with you more.

Anything that involves touching or internal probing of a girl's vagina is invasive and she will probably carry that memory with her as she heads into sex eventually. Thus, it IS a "sexual" encounter.

I think parents who let their daughters make their own choices on these matters are doing their children a GREAT service by letting them own their bodies completely.

Pelvic exams are extremely traumatising for many women and girls. They are for me. I actually had to be sedated for the last one I had (and I only had it because it had been 7 years since my last one, and I have a famiy history of cervical cancer at young ages...and my midwife hounded me about it, in a good way














.

I started menstruating at 10, and my mother tried to get me into the GYN for a pelvic at 12. I had horrible periods, just horrible, and she was really sure that a pelvic exam would tell us something about that. I walked out of the office before I was called, and thank goddess she (my mother) didn't force me back in there. I trusted her a great deal more after that because she let me make my own choice.

In 25 years of menstruations, babies and birthings, I've had less than 5 paps. And a few internals, but that was for double set of ovarian cysts which were found during the req'd bc exam years ago. (Thank goodness they found those cysts then...I had surgery three days later and one cyst was in the process of rupturing. I had no idea there was an issue because I was a single mother and too busy to feel pain, seriously).

IMHO, it's more important to familiarise a girl with her body by taking her in for *discussions* and honest talks with a HCP...even if you are honest and open from day one with your girls. My 14 yo is now comfortable w/ our midwife because she's been going for years (not for paps!) and said midwife makes it a point to talk to her every time about girly stuff.







 (Even though 14 yo has yet to begin menstruation).

love, penelope


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## ErinBird (Dec 5, 2005)

I first went at 20, before I was sexually active. Thyere was NO reason for the pelvic exam to be done and the (male) doctor really hurt me. I wouldn't.


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## Lesley77 (Oct 29, 2005)

I'm glad her dad went to the appointment and found out what was up.

Every single time I've been to the GYN for a pap they've done the rectal exam. I thought it was normal.


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## daniedb (Aug 8, 2004)

My sister is a ped, and she routinely does pelvics on sexually active teens in her office. Why in the world would your DSD's mom want to take her to a GYN when her ped can answer any and all questions, and do all the necessary sex education and tests, incl. the HPV vax? That's what I'm not getting. A ped would be much less likely to do a pelvic or any other testing or whatever than a gyn, simply because the gyn would be automatically thinking along those lines, whereas her ped already has an established relationship and knows DSD's health issues.

That is, assuming she has a ped. If not, ignore me.

As for the rectal, never had it. Ack.


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## Blooming (Feb 16, 2006)

wow. no way, unless said reasons above.

I was completly tramutized way to early by my expereince. I actually shoved myself up the table to escape the random doctor I had never meet before. He yelled at me and made me stay still. I was a virgin. I will never forget the pain.

The worst part was my father took me to the exam and I did not feel comfortable telling him what happended.

To this day I will never see a man doctor for anything. I kicked more then one out of my birthing room.

It really could be horrible for her. If she does go perhaps you're dh could help find a kind layed back midwife or obgyn that knows if she says stop they have to stop. I'd also empower you're daughter with this info, if she is uncomfortanle she has every right to say no and ask them to leave.


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