# weight/flattering clothing/self image, how can I help her?



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Dsd comes from a family that has always had weight issues. At 6 she weighed 125 lbs. I try to be very careful about what comes into our home but DS comes from my family, where some of us have a super-metabolism (which I had my whole life until I became hypothyroid.)

He can eat like nobody's business, as can my younger brother who is in his 40s now and shows no sign of ever gaining any weight. It's difficult for Dsd to understand she can't eat nonstop when Ds can. She's 5'2" now and weighs 160 lbs. Clothing is extremely difficult to find for her because she's inherited some fitting issues from Dh's side of the family as well, such as a barrel chest.

I have to special order her bras because we can't find them here at all, and they're very hard to locate even online. Her chest size in relation to her small shoulder size makes shopping for shirts difficult as well. I have a similar problem for different reasons, if a shirt can cover my boobs it's huge in the neck and arms and waist. But I'm not trying to fit in with all the other kids, yk?

Consequently, clothing is a problem all around. She can't wear the same things her friends wear because she can't shop at the same places. Right now she is wearing the largest junior size jeans you can buy, but we may have located a place where we can buy junior plus, they just are always out of stock so it is going to be difficult to figure out what size she wears since there isn't anything for her to try on. I bought a serger so we could cut tee shirts down to size for her because she can't wear junior sized tees at all and women's tees are too large at the arms and sides. I have to hem every pair of jeans or pants we get as well, and anything sleeveless has to be shortened in the torso by shortening the straps.

I also picked up books on altering patterns and clothing because of the way we have to alter everything to fit, since she can't wear anything without alterations of some sort. It's so frustrating for her to see her friends wearing cute clothes and not be able to go buy the same things. I've tried to make her understand that I have multiple fitting issues also and have never been able to buy off the rack with much luck, but I think the 'chubby' problem is what bothers her the most. To top it off, when she went to her brother's wedding a while back the airlines lost one of her bags and she lost a bunch of cute clothes she had.







:

We exercise together after school and we're trying to present the food issue to her as just luck of the draw, ds just happened to get 'super metabolism' and will probably always be able to get away with a little more when it comes to food. But I feel like we have to police her eating habits more than I'm comfortable with and I don't know how to get around it. If we don't put her dressing on her salad for her, for example, she'll use almost a quarter of a bottle, or if we don't pay attention to how much butter she uses she'll put 1/4" thick on a piece of bread. I don't like to feel like we're on her all the time, but I don't want to hear her cry about being 'fat' either when we don't do anything to discourage bad habits like that.









Additonally, I'm trying to help her tell the difference between clothing that is flattering and clothing that isn't, but I don't want to say 'that makes you look heavier' or 'that calls attention to your belly.' Likewise, I don't necessarily know if saying 'that makes you look thinner' is a good thing or not. As an example, she had a photo of herself in a dress she wore when she was in her brother's wedding that made her look 50 pounds heavier. It was atrocious! If you look at the wedding photo side by side with one from a few days later in another outfit they look like she lost 50 lbs when she changed clothes. She thought the dress from the wedding made her look great and the other outfit didn't, and I didn't know how to tell her the other outfit was flattering without making it sound like I was trying to say something nasty about her SIL's taste.

I want to know how to teach her _gently_ the difference between what looks good and what doesn't without hurting her self esteem, while we're already fighting this battle of finding clothes that fit in the first place, and I already know there have been children who have picked on her for her weight. SHe often wants to buy things that are unflattering and I want to help her to not be picked on, but if I try to steer her toward something that looks better on her, I always feel like whatever I'm saying comes out wrong, and I don't want to come out and say 'that doesn't look good.'

Sometimes we'll watch makeover shows and she can tell when other people make changes that make a difference, and I'm always hoping she'll remember some of the things we've seen there, but it seems like everything they market to kids her age looks alike...it's all horizontal stripes, tight in the middle...ugh. It's probably worse with shopping being so limited here.

I also want to know how to help her make better choices about food without her feeling like we're picking on her, and while she's seeing the human eating machine eating everything in sight. I can't very well tell him not to eat because he literally gets sick when he's hungry, as I remember being that way when I was a teen myself.

We just got a bunch of shirts for me to alter, so we'll be ok for a little while before the next round of jeans shopping. The main issue at the moment is food and eating habits, I think.

I don't want to send the message that there is something wrong with her, but I'm flying blind here since I never had to think about food as a child myself and I really hate having to tell someone they _can't_ eat something. I sometimes think she wants to eat more just because ds is, like it's a _fairness_ issue with her more than an actual _hunger_ issue, and I'm left feeling like I'm the bad guy for telling her she can't have seconds or she can't have more dressing or something.

She's looked at some old photos of herself and made comments like 'god I was fat' already, and I really don't know how to handle it. Yes, she was heavy, but she was a really cute kid and people always commented on how cute she was. Her brother was chubby for a few years and outgrew it, but I don't necessarily think we can take a 'wait and see' attitude about it.

Should I just look the other way and keep exercising with her and altering the clothes? I feel bad for her but I don't want to make things worse and I honestly have no clue what it's like to be a chubby kid as I was a super-skinny kid and it feels weird to think about 'controlling' someone's food in any way.

What should I do?


----------



## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

My little sister was always a heavy kid, and so I can kind of speak from what my parents did, and what apparently didn't work too well.

They policed her food. I would say it back-fired big time. She is obese now, and had compulsive eating issues by the time she was 14. I have always vowed that if I had a dc with weight issues (which I very well may have in ds1, though he's only 3), I would just make everyone eat the same thing. That means no butter or fatty salad dressing for anyone. No juice for anyone, no soda for anyone, no dessert for anyone. It won't hurt any of us, and it could only help the child with the weight issues.

As far as more flattering clothing goes, it seems to me like most kids that age (I'm assuming she's in jr high?) wear kids that are totally unflattering. Unless their parents dress them, or maybe they just have naturally great taste? It doesn't seem like many of them do, though, honestly. If you can gently steer her towards more flattering clothing, great. If not, I wouldn't say anything. Keep exercising with her, try to change the whole family's diet to be lower fat, lower sugar, higher fiber, etc., and try to think of other ways to integrate more exercise into her lifestyle, without making a big deal out of it.

At least, you know, she's not alone. When I was a kid, there were so few heavy kids that it was really hard for them. But now so many kids are overweight that they can't be singled out that much, right?


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Yeah.

It's not like there are foods that are off limits, but sometimes ds will have seconds and she doesn't because we really don't think she's actually hungry. It just feels mean.


----------



## LionTigerBear (Jan 13, 2006)

I learned a lot about food from the book The Mood Cure by Julia Ross. She touches on subjects like why we get certain food cravings (which also affect mood!) and why dieting will backfire. Some people (like me!) can literally become addicted to foods like sugar, (and/or) wheat, (and/or) dairy, as well as other foods. This can be combated with supplementation among other things. For people with these cravings, it can affect many aspects of life-- mood, weight, metabolism, sleep, etc. Dieting can make it worse! She has another book out called The Diet Cure and I highly recommend anything by that author.


----------



## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

You sound like a very kind and caring stepmother! And her brother being able to eat anything he wants does complicate it.

Is it JUST her wanting to eat as much as her brother does - or is it also some of the food choices? I consider her being that overweight to be a big problem for her socially, physically, even academically - because she will be teased and it will affect her education. I cannot imagine how painful it must be to not fit in the chair, to not be able to wear clothes that your friends can all wear, to not have a date to the dance, etc. And I disagree that because our society has more obese kids than ever before that those kids won't be teased. They will be.

I'm not sure what the answer is, but if a child is 125 at age 6, I don't think that is just a bad roll of the genetic dice. I'd only buy nonfat milk and lowfat dairy products - for the whole family. I'd buy a variety of fruits and nuts and healthy stuff - for the whole family. Go out as a family and have an ice cream for a treat once every few weeks - but not in the freezer for every night dessert. Keep up the exercise with her!

And you didn't say how old she is now. I'm sorry this is something that is happening to her and to your family.







I'd definitely make family changes to help her get to a healthy and happy weight. It is only going to get worse if she doesn't get it turned around now.


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

I'm sure it's related to her attachment disorder, actually. I just don't like feeling like the bad guy and having to say no all the time.









It's kind of obvious at times, if you tell her she can't have seconds she'll pick up the dressing and _accidentally_ dump too much on her salad. It's designed to irritate us, but in the long run it's her who is hurt when other kids tease her for being overweight.

600 calories worth of lasagne or more dressing?







Part of the disorder is not recognizing cause and effect.


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten* 
You sound like a very kind and caring stepmother! And her brother being able to eat anything he wants does complicate it.

Is it JUST her wanting to eat as much as her brother does - or is it also some of the food choices? I consider her being that overweight to be a big problem for her socially, physically, even academically - because she will be teased and it will affect her education. I cannot imagine how painful it must be to not fit in the chair, to not be able to wear clothes that your friends can all wear, to not have a date to the dance, etc. And I disagree that because our society has more obese kids than ever before that those kids won't be teased. They will be.

I'm not sure what the answer is, but if a child is 125 at age 6, I don't think that is just a bad roll of the genetic dice. I'd only buy nonfat milk and lowfat dairy products - for the whole family. I'd buy a variety of fruits and nuts and healthy stuff - for the whole family. Go out as a family and have an ice cream for a treat once every few weeks - but not in the freezer for every night dessert. Keep up the exercise with her!

And you didn't say how old she is now. I'm sorry this is something that is happening to her and to your family.







I'd definitely make family changes to help her get to a healthy and happy weight. It is only going to get worse if she doesn't get it turned around now.

Before I was on the scene, they let her order off the adult menu in restaurants, and let her stuff herself. When a doctor told them he was worried about her weight they got mad. Dh has opened his eyes in recent years.

Her first daycare would feed children to keep them quiet and relatives competing for affection also overfed her with junk food. I also remember seeing her do the butter thing to get a reaction out of her older brother.

I just remember noticing how differently people treated me when I gained weight when I first went hypo and I feel so bad for her because I know how mean people are when you are fat. Genetically she's predisposed to be heavy from both sides, and there's diabetes and thyroid disorders on both sides as well (something I have her checked for yearly as I'm suspicious she's a bit hypo too) so I'm afraid she'll have to be diligent about maintaining a normal weight.

I just hope I can help her without seeming critical.


----------



## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

How old is she? Is she still growing or is 5'2" her full adult height?

Since she's old enough to need bras, IMO she's also old enough to control her own food intake, and IMO it's not really appropriate for you to "police" her diet. I'd educate her about healthy eating and try to trust her to make good choices on her own.

I can't help but wonder if she needs a different sort of "diet" than the one you're trying to put her on. Is she craving fatty foods because her body truly needs EFAs? Maybe she'd be more satisfied (and eat less overall) if she cut out/down the carbs and didn't attempt to limit the proteins or fats.

The bottom line is she won't lose weight until SHE wants to. You can help her make healthy choices, keep "good for her" foods readily available, etc, but you can't do it for her.


----------



## Minky (Jun 28, 2005)

Hmm.... I wanted to say something about the salad dressing, and then your second post about it makes it sound like she's adding the dressing out of malice. But I'll say what I wanted to say anyway.

When I try to switch from an unhealthy diet to a healthy one, as I'm doing right now, I initially need a lot of salad dressing, cheese, croutons, etc on my salad to make it palatable to me. Yes, I'll be eating a lot of stuff on my salad that I probably shouldn't be, but at least it's not the 600 calorie lasagna. I find that as the days go on, I end up eating fewer and fewer salad toppings and more and more of the healthy stuff. Maybe she needs some dressing right now.

I would stop policing her food. The way we used to do it when we had a hungry teenager staying with us was, there was only a set amount of the main course, everyone got their share, and those who were still hungry could have more salad, or one of the healthy snacks we kept lying around the house--celery sticks, carrots, etc. Just because someone has a super metabolism doesn't mean they'll be healthy if they constantly chow down on 600 calorie lasagna and potato chips.


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Minky* 
Hmm.... I wanted to say something about the salad dressing, and then your second post about it makes it sound like she's adding the dressing out of malice. But I'll say what I wanted to say anyway.

When I try to switch from an unhealthy diet to a healthy one, as I'm doing right now, I initially need a lot of salad dressing, cheese, croutons, etc on my salad to make it palatable to me. Yes, I'll be eating a lot of stuff on my salad that I probably shouldn't be, but at least it's not the 600 calorie lasagna. I find that as the days go on, I end up eating fewer and fewer salad toppings and more and more of the healthy stuff. Maybe she needs some dressing right now.

I would stop policing her food. The way we used to do it when we had a hungry teenager staying with us was, there was only a set amount of the main course, everyone got their share, and those who were still hungry could have more salad, or one of the healthy snacks we kept lying around the house--celery sticks, carrots, etc. Just because someone has a super metabolism doesn't mean they'll be healthy if they constantly chow down on 600 calorie lasagna and potato chips.

Totally. I don't think he needs to eat junk to make up the difference either, and lasagne is a rare treat here.

Part of the attachment disorder is some weird behavior around food, but we don't know how much of it is from that and how much of it is from being fed junk in the past. She's always requesting that I buy chips, twinkies and other things I don't eat, and I've made a conscious effort to subvert my own sweet tooth to try not to tempt her because she has a tendency to ask every night 'what's for dessert?'

She wants gum and candy daily, something else that is foreign to me. I do allow both of them to have 1 soda daily, which goes totally against my grain, but I feel dh sets a bad example by drinking diet coke all day long, and since he brings sodas into the house I don't feel like it's right to tell them they can't have them at all. I limit them because I've explained to them how soda leaches calcium out of their bones and I'd prefer they didn't drink them _at all_ except on special occasions as a treat. I drink water all the time and I'd like them to find a balance between dh and I, but if I left it up to them they would drink soda from morning until bedtime.









I've started stirring fiber into foods where I can and I've found a bakery that will let me buy big bags of whole wheat flour at a decent price so I can stop buying the big bags of white flour at costco. I'm doing everything I can to provide her with real food and less junk, but when she's out of school all she wants to do is eat. Within 10 minutes of finishing breakfast she'll ask _what's for lunch?_ and shortly after she'll ask if she can have a snack. There just seems to be a constant worry that she won't get enough food. And it isn't just recent, she did this _before_ we started limiting things.

So...do we just ignore and let her eat whenever she wants, even if we just ate a meal? In therapy they've always said to set limits but it doesn't seem to make any difference what we do.


----------



## Labbemama (May 23, 2008)

Does she have any physical outlets? Like bike riding,skating, a sport?


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

She loves gym class, and we bellydance every day.


----------



## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

That sounds similar to my size and shape at her age. Is she relatively small-waisted and maybe a little short-legged? What worked very well for me (actually it still does! I'm much heavier but still the same shape) was to wear fitted tops with a little stretch, and loose flared skirts or good jeans. (Or dresses in the same style-- fitted/ stretchy on top and flared skirt.) Very 1950s. I still am annoyed that I can't wear certain styles, but oh well. At around fifteen or sixteen I finally worked out that that was what I would have to wear, period, and gave up on trying anything else ever again. That has saved me a lot of frustration! Even at my thinnest, 5'5" and 138 pounds, I still had to wear that style and couldn't always wear what the other girls were wearing-- even the girls who were exactly my size-- because I was still the same shape I had been at 165 pounds.


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

You know how most people are either long in the leg and short in the body, or long in the body and short in the leg? She's got short legs _and_ a short body. Thick middle, thick thighs, no rear. So if pants are big enough for her legs they are too big in the rear and waist. If tops are big enough for her chest, they are way too big everywhere else and necklines are too deep. Bra size is 42 and very few manufacturers make those in the smaller cup sizes. If you're a C or D and a 42, yeah, but not an A. I'm having to buy too small bras and sew on extenders because you just can't get her size.

I mean, sometimes all my fit problems make me feel like a freak and I'm not a self-conscious pre-teen, yk? I've seen her face when we try on the largest size they carry and it's too little. Makes me wonder if women had better body images when all clothing was tailor made?









So do I just provide healthy snacks and not say anything at all, and just hope for the best?


----------



## Cherie2 (Sep 27, 2006)

what if the food choices were something she could have seconds of? i am thinking that if it was ok to eat to her hearts delight that she might stop worrying about getting enough.


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cherie2* 
what if the food choices were something she could have seconds of? i am thinking that if it was ok to eat to her hearts delight that she might stop worrying about getting enough.

I'm thinking maybe we can make sure there are unlimited supplies of veggies and maybe I can make veggie dip with nonfat sour cream or something so it seems like it's 'junky.' And maybe completely get rid of any 'regular' salad dressing until we see her change the behavior on her own. I don't think anyone in the house would die without regular dressing.

I'm not kidding when I say she can put away a quarter to a half bottle of dressing or a half container of dip at a sitting. And then complain that she doesn't feel well.


----------



## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Oh, I had a friend in college with the build you describe. I think she wore a lot of button-down shirts and plain pants (like Miranda on _Sex and the City_). She didn't fit well into trendy clothes either, but she wore rather trendy jewelry and makeup and fixed her hair carefully.


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

It has to be frustrating. We bought some really cute shirts in the misses department and one of her friends told her she was trying to dress like a grown-up instead of a kid.







: Easy for her to say when she can buy off the rack in the junior's department.









We looked all day and found 2 shirts that fit OK and weren't cut too low, didn't look matronly, and she _liked_ them. Now she doesn't like them anymore. And I really _used_ to like this other little girl, too.







: Lately she's made a lot of nasty comments to dsd and she's really starting to chap my @$$.


----------



## Minky (Jun 28, 2005)

If I mysteriously stopped liking an outfit as a kid, it was always because a "friend" had made a negative comment about it.

Have you tried Torrid, or is that not her style?

I wasn't extremely overweight in school, but I had a mother who wanted to dress me like a little adult and told me that darn near everything the kids my age were wearing looked fine on them, but didn't flatter me because I was overweight. I wasn't actually overweight, but she made me feel like I was.

I know your girl is actually overweight, but if she's taking less [email protected] from kids wearing unflattering kid clothes than she is wearing grown-up clothes, maybe the kid clothes are the way to go.


----------



## LionTigerBear (Jan 13, 2006)

I think my first post was entirely skipped over. I'm really concerned about all the talk of low-fat-this and non-fat-that and cutting out the butter. Eating fat helps you _lose_ weight. It helps you feel full and satiated sooner so you can eat less, for just one thing. It also feeds the brain. Good fats like olive oil, coconut oil and yes, butter, help with thyroid function and metabolism. Not eating fat triggers further food cravings and mood issues.

I am not some clueless skinny girl spouting off info I know nothing about. I am 5'2". When I had my first son, I gained nearly 70 pounds from weighing 110. I lost _all_ of that weight, healthfully, within one year, simply by adopting a healthy diet high in protein and fat, and following a sensible walking routine. No crazy dieting or exercising involved. I actually got down to 107, less than I had ever weighed. (And that was a healthy weight for me; I'm small-boned.) With my second pregnancy I gained 55 pounds. Again, same thing, lost it all within a year and got down to 104 pounds. Maintained that weight until I got pregnant again. And I was eating all of the fat and steak I wanted-- actually I was eating a LOT of fat. Now I am post-baby again, I had gained about 50 pounds and at 5 weeks postpartum I have 35 pounds to go.

Again, I suggest the book "The Diet Cure". It's really good.


----------



## mommajb (Mar 4, 2005)

I don't know what to say about the food in the big picture. It seems you are offering healthy choices and helping her to see the consequences without being too mean or blunt about it. It is hard to understand differences in the house like why can my brother have all the food he wants and I can't? A far as just one little part perhaps dressing the entire salad before putting it in individual bowls would help? If the bottle is not on the table and the salad is dressed.

I have two ideas regarding clothing
1. If she likes it and feels good in it for whatever reason that seems good enough to me (assuming there aren't modesty issues or some other glaring problem)
2. What about taking photos of her in various outfits for her to look at so she can see the difference?

You seem to really care and hopefully that is what she will remember in the long run.


----------



## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

We had the flip side of this situation when I was coming up. I could eat anything and everything I wanted, while my brother had a weight problem (it didn't help that I was also very physically active and he wasn't - but that's the way we were). My Mom handled it by feeding the entire family healthily. We didn't have soda, except on a weekend or special occasion. And then it was one each. We always had salad - no creamy or store-bought dressings, it was oil, vinegar and some seasoning. Lean meats, lots of veggies. We didn't have a starch with every meal. Stuff that, really, could be eaten in quantity by me 'cause I was *hungry* after running, riding or playing soccer, and by my bro. 'Cause even though he was overweight, he still needed the nourishment. It was only when he got older (mid/late 20s?) that he started working out himself. Today he's nearly 50 and in excellent shape. Not marathon runner shape, but in good physical condition.

A PP made a good point earlier about preparing the main dish with just enough, then bulking it with veggies and salad. Fats are not *bad*, _per se_. They should just be used in moderation.

What is Dad's take on this? Does he realize how hard it is to restrict the kids from, say, soda when he drinks it constantly?

And... sometimes you really do have to cut something out completely, however. With my ex, I literally had to keep sweets out of the house. He simply could not restrain himself. If I got ice cream? He'd eat the entire half gallon in a sitting. Chocolate for the kids? Couldn't keep it in the house (picture a grown man snarfing down a package of Barbie Valentine chocolate - man, was I ticked when I found out).

As for clothes... The "cute" stuff her friends are wearing doesn't look good on every skinny girl, either. My daughter has a gorgeous figure, but most of that stuff looks like c**p on her. 'Cause it's *cheap*. Luckily, she's very self-confident and wears what she likes and looks good on her. And... when we shop together, I pull no punches. I tell her if I don't think soemthing is flattering IMO, but tell her that it's her choice. But if I buy it, I kind of expect her to wear it. It's taken some time, but she's figured out that I'm not being mean, but realistic.

When you look at the makeover shows, ask her what clothes YOU have that she thinks are less/more flattering and why. Ask her if she can think of any of HER clothes that are more flattering than others and what makes them so. We can't all look good in everything. The key is finding what DOES look good.

And at the end of the day? Call Tim Gunn!


----------



## Labbemama (May 23, 2008)

Yes her feeling comfortable is the main thing, finding clothes that fit and having them alterred so they look right is probably your best bet.

I have an almost 16 y.o. dd who is a bit heavy 175 lbs and 5'2.

Taking pictures of herself in her clothes would throw her into a tailspin.

We did go into a different store the other day on a whim and found 3 things that fit her with only minor alterations to the hem!!! She felt so good because we were not in a rush to locate an item. I think I'm going to keep shopping with her when we are not on a deadline because that adds to how stressed I get. And now I shop with the idea in mind that it can be alterred rather than finding the perfect fit.

We just got her pants back from the seamstress and dd was SO proud to be wearing pants that weren't flapping.

She's done a lot of reading and found some of those tricks that slim, etc...swimsuit for your body type that kind of thing.

I'm wary of the media. She already has confidence issues...

The other thing I did was start her in voice lessons, something that improves her posture and her self-confidence and she gets a lot of compliments for her beautiful voice. Huge huge ego boost with the added effect that she's walking taller.


----------



## mommajb (Mar 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mtiger* 
snipped a bit...
And... sometimes you really do have to cut something out completely, however. With my ex, I literally had to keep sweets out of the house. He simply could not restrain himself. If I got ice cream? He'd eat the entire half gallon in a sitting. Chocolate for the kids? Couldn't keep it in the house (picture a grown man snarfing down a package of Barbie Valentine chocolate - man, was I ticked when I found out).

As for clothes... The "cute" stuff her friends are wearing doesn't look good on every skinny girl, either. My daughter has a gorgeous figure, but most of that stuff looks like c**p on her. 'Cause it's *cheap*. Luckily, she's very self-confident and wears what she likes and looks good on her. And... when we shop together, I pull no punches. I tell her if I don't think soemthing is flattering IMO, but tell her that it's her choice. But if I buy it, I kind of expect her to wear it. It's taken some time, but she's figured out that I'm not being mean, but realistic.

When you look at the makeover shows, ask her what clothes YOU have that she thinks are less/more flattering and why. Ask her if she can think of any of HER clothes that are more flattering than others and what makes them so. We can't all look good in everything. The key is finding what DOES look good.

The first part here is why I haven't bought Easter candy yet.







I can't keep it in dh's car as the sun has warmed up and I can't trust myself.

And yes to the next. I know you don't want to hear it but I have an almost impossible time finding clothes that fit my skinny kids. Shorts that don't look like skirt on ds1? Forget it.

I like the idea of making the focus on mom too and not just dsd. Just asking/admitting what doesn't look great on yourself might make her think differently as the focus won't be on her. I know I had opinions on what I wanted my mom to wear.







Mostly I think well fitting clothes look better than squeezing into a smaller size.

I mentioned the photos because I often can't tell what my hair or clothes look like even in the mirror. I find photos shocking but thought it might help if you are trying to make a point.


----------



## LionTigerBear (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommajb* 
The first part here is why I haven't bought Easter candy yet.







I can't keep it in dh's car as the sun has warmed up and I can't trust myself.

Yes. Some people really can't handle candy. I am one of them. It's like a drug for me, I cannot use enough moderation to be healthy with it. So we keep it out of the house now. One of our sons is the same as me with candy and sweets (ironically, he's the really skinny one, lol.) But he will not eat anything healthy if sweets are an option. So now, for treats, we have fruit leather or Larabars (which are super yummy and good for you!) No candy at all. There will be no candy for Easter, no sugar in his birthday cake, (we will use honey) and no trick-or-treating at Halloween. (We'll make our own honey treats and host a costume party at our home.) This is what we have to do to stay healthy. But being healthy (not skinny, but healthy) is an important value in our family. When it comes to reactions to sugar, different people are different and the author Julia Ross explains why very clearly. After I read her book I had a new understanding of my reaction to sugar.


----------



## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommajb* 
And yes to the next. I know you don't want to hear it but I have an almost impossible time finding clothes that fit my skinny kids. Shorts that don't look like skirt on ds1? Forget it.

15 can wear short shorts and smoke 'em. But she doesn't like how they look. Longer shorts - she prefers cargo shorts - are almost impossible to find for girls her age. So we buy guy shorts and alter them.


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Minky* 
If I mysteriously stopped liking an outfit as a kid, it was always because a "friend" had made a negative comment about it.

Have you tried Torrid, or is that not her style?

Torrid won't work because the jean sizes run 12/14/16 and those sizes don't fit her body style. They curve in the wrong places.

As far as the tees go, the only ones she would like are the ones in the $90 range, and that's absolutely not happening. Who buys $90 tee shirts?








My dh would sh!t kittens if I bought her a shirt that cost that much!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Minky* 
I wasn't extremely overweight in school, but I had a mother who wanted to dress me like a little adult and told me that darn near everything the kids my age were wearing looked fine on them, but didn't flatter me because I was overweight. I wasn't actually overweight, but she made me feel like I was.

I know your girl is actually overweight, but if she's taking less [email protected] from kids wearing unflattering kid clothes than she is wearing grown-up clothes, maybe the kid clothes are the way to go.

She physically cannot fit into kid's sizes. There is no way. Her ribcage measurement is 42" and for a while we had to get her women's shirts until she started to get a little bit of a waist, but she's still very straight up and down with a bulge in the middle. She's 11 and most people think she's much older because she's so big. When she was 6 nobody thought she was 6 because of her size, she was both big and tall, she always has been.

She's just barely needing a bra and is mostly built like a little girl, but she's way too large for girl's clothing, and women's clothing is cut all wrong for her but nobody makes little girl clothing for big kids.







Nobody makes clothing for kids like her. That's why I got all the alteration books, to try to figure out how to either alter stuff or alter patterns so we could make things ourselves.

We found one store on the opposite side of the island from where we usually shop where they carry junior plus sizes, and they had no shirts at all, and just a few pairs of jeans the day we were there. At the time, we were unable to figure out what size jeans she would wear so we can't even mail order from them until they have a pair in stock that fits her. That means we have to keep making a long drive to check their stock and hope something fits her so we'll finally know what size she takes in their brand. Junior plus doesn't run in any way that translates to junior sizes, a junior plus 12 is bigger than a junior 14, iirc, so if you don't know your size you'll order the wrong one. And since every brand runs differently you have to try on before you buy or you'll get the wrong size. Shopping is so awful here we often end up ordering clothing because it's cheaper than driving several times for nothing. But I can't do that if I don't know her size.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LionTigerBear* 
I think my first post was entirely skipped over. I'm really concerned about all the talk of low-fat-this and non-fat-that and cutting out the butter. Eating fat helps you _lose_ weight. It helps you feel full and satiated sooner so you can eat less, for just one thing. It also feeds the brain. Good fats like olive oil, coconut oil and yes, butter, help with thyroid function and metabolism. Not eating fat triggers further food cravings and mood issues.

I'm not anti-fat, but when you've seen someone eat 1/4 of a bottle of dressing, or a spoonful of butter or margarine...ew. Several hundred calories worth of fat at a sitting is not a good thing when you're already overweight and it's completely unnecessary. I don't even know if I can adequately describe how gross it is. It's not like dh and I are the only people to comment on it, either. My MIL just completely lost her mind when she saw her doing it and when she spent time with her she wouldn't let her put anything on her own food _at all._

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mtiger* 
We had the flip side of this situation when I was coming up. I could eat anything and everything I wanted, while my brother had a weight problem (it didn't help that I was also very physically active and he wasn't - but that's the way we were).

This is what really kills me. The family metabolism on my side always worked this way, I was a bookworm and never did anything athletic till I was an adult, and was a total stick, as were my brothers. All of us ate like horses. DS is a pretty much the same.

DSD dances and likes sports and tends to gain, and even though she seems to want to eat all the time, she still eats less than DS.

It's so screwed up. I _completely_ remember being thin and thinking _how can people be fat when I sometimes eat just because something smells good and I can't keep any weight on?_ God, I was an idiot. I'm pretty sure becoming hypothyroid was karma for me.







Now I've seen the flip side where I was too tired to even care about fixing something to eat and I watched weight pile on. Even with her eating habits, I can see DSD's metabolism is much much slower than DS's. It's _glaringly_ obvious.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mtiger* 
What is Dad's take on this? Does he realize how hard it is to restrict the kids from, say, soda when he drinks it constantly?

Dad rationalizes his soda, which truly burns me up.







: I am open about it though, and I've told the kids I don't think it's good for him either, but he's an adult and he's free to eff up his own health if he wants to, but I want to give them the best possible chance while they're growing up.







They know we disagree on the subject but it's something they can decide for themelves when they're older. He's a diabetic so he drinks diet soda, which on the one hand he says is OK because he's not drinking sugar, but OTOH I say it's poison, so there you go.









We agree on most things but there are some problems with food. He doesn't like to admit it, but his eating habits are pretty awful. DSD didn't get the idea that everything has to have dip, dressing or mayonnaise from _nowhere_, yk?


----------



## LionTigerBear (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
I'm not anti-fat, but when you've seen someone eat 1/4 of a bottle of dressing, or a spoonful of butter or margarine...ew. Several hundred calories worth of fat at a sitting is not a good thing when you're already overweight and it's completely unnecessary. I don't even know if I can adequately describe how gross it is. It's not like dh and I are the only people to comment on it, either.

I just think that her food cravings are there for a reason. It's a sign of a nutrient deficiency, which doesn't necessarily mean she isn't ingesting enough nutrients-- but for one reason or another they aren't hitting her system. Cravings happen for a reason. It's a sign of a chemical imbalance. I know your daughter has a lot of mental/emotional issues to, as did her mother, and I really think this is related to the food issues. Have you heard of Gut and Psychology Syndrome (GAPS)? Now the GAPS diet is very strict and intensive and your daughter probably doesn't need anything like that, but the underlying principle is one that I think would benefit you to research somewhat. Their are a lot of books you can read which describe the link between brain health/psychological health and digestive/gut health. Some are, Change Your Brain Change Your Life, The Mood Cure, The Diet Cure, Gut and Psychology Syndrome, and The GAPS Guide book. I really think this is the kind of thing you need to look into because policing her eating habits and trying to teach "moderation" is literally like trying to teach a drug addict moderation-- it isn't going to help and will probably make it worse. However, if you treat the underlying cause of the cravings and mood disorders, the problems will resolve themselves. P.S. -- The Mood Cure, The Diet Cure and Gut and Psychology Syndrome all cover the hypothyroid issue as well, which is related. I recommended Julia Ross' books because I think they are the most accessible. The Change Your Brain Change Your Life book is very good but he doesn't touch on the diet issue quite as much.


----------



## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

A few times in this thread the OP has asked if she should just hope for the best - or something like that. Everyone is so afraid of inciting food issues that they don't suggest something more strict. Well, the kid already HAS food issues - very serious ones. 125 at age 6! Half a bottle of salad dressing at a sitting. Asking for more food just after finishing a meal. Ordering off the adult menu as a young kid. None of this is remotely ok. And it will get worse and worse.

I don't think all kids need to be skinny. People come in different shapes and sizes. But this is WAY past that! She needs help! Therapy, a complete change of what groceries are kept in the house, team sports or a family bike ride every night after dinner or something!

I can't imagine what harm you could do that is worse than what is already happening. I think we can all tell that the OP is kind; she won't berate the girl. But I think helping her by making enough dinner for everyone to have one serving, no junk food in the house, family outdoor activities, etc is the kind and appropriate thing to do.

I'd have her in for a physical. I'd find a good therapist that addresses food issues. I'd empty the house of all crap including dp's diet pop. Dsd's well being (physical and emotional) is more important than his pop habit. I'd get a family membership at the gym and go to open swim, mom and me dance classes, etc. I'd up the exercise and reduce the amount of food until it made the necessary change.

On Saturdays, I'd have a treat - but I'd do something like the family walks to the ice cream store. And everyone gets a one scoop cone. Or ride your bikes to the movie theater and share a large bucket of popcorn among all of you.

There is a reason that they don't make kid clothes in adult sizes - kids aren't meant to be that size. Not all kids need to wear a six slim in the girls' department. But it goes up to 16 plus. If we get out of that (I still don't know how old this girl is) then I believe there is a problem.


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LionTigerBear* 
I just think that her food cravings are there for a reason. It's a sign of a nutrient deficiency, which doesn't necessarily mean she isn't ingesting enough nutrients-- but for one reason or another they aren't hitting her system. Cravings happen for a reason. It's a sign of a chemical imbalance. I know your daughter has a lot of mental/emotional issues to, as did her mother, and I really think this is related to the food issues. Have you heard of Gut and Psychology Syndrome (GAPS)? Now the GAPS diet is very strict and intensive and your daughter probably doesn't need anything like that, but the underlying principle is one that I think would benefit you to research somewhat. Their are a lot of books you can read which describe the link between brain health/psychological health and digestive/gut health. Some are, Change Your Brain Change Your Life, The Mood Cure, The Diet Cure, Gut and Psychology Syndrome, and The GAPS Guide book. I really think this is the kind of thing you need to look into because policing her eating habits and trying to teach "moderation" is literally like trying to teach a drug addict moderation-- it isn't going to help and will probably make it worse. However, if you treat the underlying cause of the cravings and mood disorders, the problems will resolve themselves. P.S. -- The Mood Cure, The Diet Cure and Gut and Psychology Syndrome all cover the hypothyroid issue as well, which is related. I recommended Julia Ross' books because I think they are the most accessible. The Change Your Brain Change Your Life book is very good but he doesn't touch on the diet issue quite as much.

Thanks, I'll do some reading. I've often thought she might do well on Atkins, but unfortunately nobody else in the house would eat that way. I absolutely won't eat artificial sweeteners and I actually gained on Atkins.

I believe she will be diagnosed as hypothyroid sooner or later, and if dh wouldn't hit the roof I would be giving her a trial dose of thyroid hormones to see if it helped her. Unfortunately, Kaiser says her TSH is 'normal' and we don't have the $400 to 500 in the budget it would cost to take her to the naturopath who would diagnose her properly. I've found the doctor, I just need to fee for the first appointment. The ILs will be here by the end of May and hopefully I will be able to look for a part time job and come up with the cash. I've suspected hypo since I met her, but until I can get her to the right doctor my hands are tied. Most conventional doctors don't look at _all_ the hormone levels and leave many thyroid patients undertreated or untreated when they have hypo symptoms for _years_ before diagnosis. I had to gain 80 pounds before a doctor would admit I was hypothyroid, and it took 5 years of feeling like sh!t and losing my hair and eyebrows to convince them something was wrong with me.







So it's no real surprise a chubby little girl isn't enough to convince them she has a medical problem.


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten* 
A few times in this thread the OP has asked if she should just hope for the best - or something like that. Everyone is so afraid of inciting food issues that they don't suggest something more strict. Well, the kid already HAS food issues - very serious ones. 125 at age 6! Half a bottle of salad dressing at a sitting. Asking for more food just after finishing a meal. Ordering off the adult menu as a young kid. None of this is remotely ok. And it will get worse and worse.

I don't think all kids need to be skinny. People come in different shapes and sizes. But this is WAY past that! She needs help! Therapy, a complete change of what groceries are kept in the house, team sports or a family bike ride every night after dinner or something!

I can't imagine what harm you could do that is worse than what is already happening. I think we can all tell that the OP is kind; she won't berate the girl. But I think helping her by making enough dinner for everyone to have one serving, no junk food in the house, family outdoor activities, etc is the kind and appropriate thing to do.

I'd have her in for a physical. I'd find a good therapist that addresses food issues. I'd empty the house of all crap including dp's diet pop. Dsd's well being (physical and emotional) is more important than his pop habit. I'd get a family membership at the gym and go to open swim, mom and me dance classes, etc. I'd up the exercise and reduce the amount of food until it made the necessary change.

On Saturdays, I'd have a treat - but I'd do something like the family walks to the ice cream store. And everyone gets a one scoop cone. Or ride your bikes to the movie theater and share a large bucket of popcorn among all of you.

There is a reason that they don't make kid clothes in adult sizes - kids aren't meant to be that size. Not all kids need to wear a six slim in the girls' department. But it goes up to 16 plus. If we get out of that (I still don't know how old this girl is) then I believe there is a problem.

She's 11, and we exercise daily.

Doctors have been no help, I've been trying to convince them she's hypothyroid for years, because I'd bet my life on it. As a pp mentioned, she also has food issues related to an emotional disorder and some of the experts actually suggest exerting a lot of control over food at the table but it makes me feel awful to do it. I'd rather dish things up at the stove and bring everyone's plate to the table and not make more food than 1 serving for everyone if possible, but it gets old having to butter everyone's bread in the kitchen and so on. I had super controlling parents so I have a problem with it in general.

But I also don't want to take the attitude of 'you're fat because you do this to yourself,' because it isn't helpful. She's obviously in pain, and she truly doesn't get cause and effect, it's part of her disorder. You have to keep setting examples for _years_ until it kicks in. Some things she gets right away, others don't seem to _ever_ take.

We've made great progress in the last year, but the food issues and her weight are are real problem. I can see this is going to be a big discussion in therapy next session. (we talk separately so she won't feel blindsided.)


----------



## Roar (May 30, 2006)

Earlier in the thread someone was commenting about the difficulty of finding bras in bigger band sizes with smaller cups. If you aren't already doing so - shop online. Getting a bra that fits right will make all of her clothes fit better. Just my size is one inexpensive option. http://www.jms.com/ It looks like they have a few 42A and something like 80 42B. www.barenecessities.com is another site with unusual sizes.


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Roar* 
Earlier in the thread someone was commenting about the difficulty of finding bras in bigger band sizes with smaller cups. If you aren't already doing so - shop online. Getting a bra that fits right will make all of her clothes fit better. Just my size is one inexpensive option. http://www.jms.com/ It looks like they have a few 42A and something like 80 42B. www.barenecessities.com is another site with unusual sizes.

Bare Necessities will be a help when she goes up to a B. JMS has some in 'old lady' styles she hates. So far we've been able to find her size occasionally at Target, which will be open here soon, but up until now has not shipped here. I've had to have them shipped to someone and forwarded to me or sometimes found them on ebay.









Hawaii shopping sucks. It sucks doubly if you're an odd size. And you can't just drive to the next state on a Saturday to shop.


----------



## Roar (May 30, 2006)

I'm sure I don't know what a little old lady style is anymore now that I am one but this one didn't seem that little old lady to me. It is red. http://www.jms.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce...ay?prnbr=19487


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

I don't think it's too bad, but what do I know, I'm the mom.









I think it's the thickness of the straps.

And I just looked at Target, the last ones we bought were 40A, the biggest they had, and we extended them to 42s with extenders.


----------



## LionTigerBear (Jan 13, 2006)

I just wanted to add that (although she may not realize it now) I think your daughter is very fortunate to have such a compassionate and committed step mother in her corner. You are really having a truly positive impact in her life. Thank you for being a wonderful person!


----------



## mommajb (Mar 4, 2005)

I've been thinking about this all night. I am so glad you are supporting her and making this effort. I can't imagine what she goes through on a daily basis. I don't know the whole story but it sounds like a bunch of issues all rolled up, add in a dose of growing pains and I am sure it gets uncomfortable in your house. Drastic changes is what I have been thinking about. They are so hard but so are little changes. That is the sum of my incoherent, incomplete thinking.


----------



## MamaJenese (Aug 14, 2006)

When I was about that age I started to pack on the pounds. My mother taught me how to cook. At the time I thought it was just something for us to do together. Now I see that while we were doing it she taught me about why each ingrediant was good for me, what a portion size was, why we might use yogurt instead of oil or butter and why that was a better choice. It brought an awarness about food choices and my weight leveled off. Might you two be able to do this together?


----------



## rhubarbarin (May 2, 2008)

I think this girl's situation is really hard. There's not going to be an easy solutions.. bigeyes you are doing a great job, thank goodness she has you.

The food issues are really troubling. I was on the opposite end of the spectrum as a kid (underweight/didn't want to eat), but my mom was really controlling about food and it was really damaging for me. I think it's better that she eat too much and gain weight, then it is for you to actively police her. Modeling good habits, only keeping food she can eat in the house, very very gentle and subtle reminders about learning good habits and what's healthy for everyone's body, and solutions she might not notice like keeping the butter and dressing in the kitchen and putting it on beforehand, are all good ideas.

As far as the clothes issue, it's going to get a bit easier in a couple years when she gets taller and develops more curves and you can shop in women's sizes.. I know you have described her as overweight, but with a 42" ribcage, I think the issue is mostly that she is VERY large-boned! And she probably has some impressive lungs in there, it's good that she's involved in athletics. My BF's ribcage is 42", he has a noticeably big chest and wears a men's size large. Shopping is probably never going to be effortless for her, though (but there are few people who can really wear anything).


----------



## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

Here's a spot to look for good plus size clothes : https://www.jeenybeans.com
They have a wide selection of plus size girls clothes.

A really great place to look for bras would be: www.decentexposures.com

Also, in case sensory issues are involved, you might take a look at some of the activities in The Out of Sync Child has fun....and keep a large stock of tasty xylitol gum around.


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
Her first daycare would feed children to keep them quiet and relatives competing for affection also overfed her with junk food.

This strikes a chord with me. I don't know if she has the same issues I had or not. I actually wasn't as fat as I thought I was, but I was a bit chunky (my fit issues had more to do with my bustline and large upper arms, though).

I have real problems with junk food. It's like there are two eaters inside me...the healthy one, who keeps portions reasonable, and tries to eat nutritionally dense foods (which I love - it's not a sacrifice) and doesn't keep junk the house, etc...and the other one - the one that thinks nothing of picking up a quarter pound of candy while I'm shopping and eating it in the van on the way home. This reflects the way my mom raised us (healthy diet, occasional treats, many of them homemade, etc.) vs. the way my grandmother tried to buy us off (both buying our love and buying our silence, because my brain damaged grandfather was molesting us). I have two separate food programs running in my head.

I really have no answers for your stepdaughter. I do know that policing my diet in any way - and mom didn't do it much - backfired in a big way. Being told what to eat set off my candy monster. I'd eat what mom or the school nurse or whoever thought I should...and then I'd stop at the corner store on my way to school, and eat two candy bars, a "loot bag" of penny candy, and a can of pop. When I hit high school, if I had lunch money (I usually skipped it or brown-bagged it), I spent it on french fries and long johns. So, all the pressure (much of it indirect - at school and such) about food just drove me into my "underground" food persona...the one that hides and sneaks. I felt like a loser, because I ate all this junk, but I hated people telling me what to put in my own body, and I backlashed.

OTOH, the whole "dressing like everyone else" thing didn't matter to me at all. I thought most of the clothes kids my age wore were freaking ugly and I wouldn't put them on, anyway. I avoided the "hip" places at the mall like the plague. I liked what I liked, not what everyone else liked (unlike ds1, who really does seem to think that having 3" of his boxers showing is flattering *sigh*). That must add a whole other layer of pressure.









I don't know if there's anything here that's helpful or not...


----------



## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

I think LTB makes good points about please make sure you don't eliminate fats and proteins and fill her up on carbs because they are 'lower cal.' Not sure at all that this is going on, and definitely true that 1/2 bottle of salad dressing is a crazy amount, but sometimes folks our age are stuck on that old school 'low cal' diet train, and it's bad news. People feel starved and binge in response. Not sure if you would feel like posting what she might eat in a typical day? Or you could plug it into sparkpeople.com and they would tell you if she is getting enough carbs/proteins/fats and if the ratio is balanced.

eta - As for clothing tips and focus on size, I would eliminate that altogether. Just act as though she is a regular size, if she is wearing something unflattering, do or don't advise her as you would with anyone else.


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
I think it's the thickness of the straps.

Probably. I remember a girl trying to get me to laugh along with her at another girl in our grade 8 class. The oh-so-hilarious aspect of this girl was that her bra was slightly visible through her shirt, and the band had 3 hooks, instead of the appropriate and attractive 2 hooks. Yeah...whatever. The girl trying to get me to laugh failed to understand that laughing at the other kids wasn't my thing...and that I was, in fact, wearing a bra at that very moment with _*4*_ hooks. *sigh* Adolesence sucks.

I hope things improve for your dsd. She's obviously had a really rough time of it.


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chfriend* 
Here's a spot to look for good plus size clothes : https://www.jeenybeans.com
They have a wide selection of plus size girls clothes.

A really great place to look for bras would be: www.decentexposures.com

Also, in case sensory issues are involved, you might take a look at some of the activities in The Out of Sync Child has fun....and keep a large stock of tasty xylitol gum around.

She wouldn't be caught dead in a decent exposures bra. She had sports bras and she threw them all away.

It's a case of finding ways to alter things so they work, or outright telling her 'you don't fit into what you like.' So far, we've been shopping online and altering.


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
I'm not anti-fat, but when you've seen someone eat 1/4 of a bottle of dressing, or a spoonful of butter or margarine...ew. Several hundred calories worth of fat at a sitting is not a good thing when you're already overweight and it's completely unnecessary.

Do you know for sure that it's the fat that's the problem? I find nothing "ew" about eating a spoonful of butter. Most of the people in my family, for the last 4 generations, have happily had a slice of butter as a snack or nibbly - just as some would eat a piece of cheese (although generally smaller). I'm fat. One of my siblings who did this _was_ fat (now, she's skinny through SlimFast and starvation and probably the least healthy she's ever been, but that's another issue entirely). However, the others in the family who did this aren't fat - normal to skinny. My great-aunt, who is _very_ thin, and 95, has snacked on butter her whole life.

Honestly - almost every overweight person I know, including me, has the same food issues...too much food, in general (I'm improving on that one a lot) and _sugar_...carbs, in general, but mostly sugar.


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
This strikes a chord with me. I don't know if she has the same issues I had or not. I actually wasn't as fat as I thought I was, but I was a bit chunky (my fit issues had more to do with my bustline and large upper arms, though).

I have real problems with junk food. It's like there are two eaters inside me...the healthy one, who keeps portions reasonable, and tries to eat nutritionally dense foods (which I love - it's not a sacrifice) and doesn't keep junk the house, etc...and the other one - the one that thinks nothing of picking up a quarter pound of candy while I'm shopping and eating it in the van on the way home. This reflects the way my mom raised us (healthy diet, occasional treats, many of them homemade, etc.) vs. the way my grandmother tried to buy us off (both buying our love and buying our silence, because my brain damaged grandfather was molesting us). I have two separate food programs running in my head.

I really have no answers for your stepdaughter. I do know that policing my diet in any way - and mom didn't do it much - backfired in a big way. Being told what to eat set off my candy monster. I'd eat what mom or the school nurse or whoever thought I should...and then I'd stop at the corner store on my way to school, and eat two candy bars, a "loot bag" of penny candy, and a can of pop. When I hit high school, if I had lunch money (I usually skipped it or brown-bagged it), I spent it on french fries and long johns. So, all the pressure (much of it indirect - at school and such) about food just drove me into my "underground" food persona...the one that hides and sneaks. I felt like a loser, because I ate all this junk, but I hated people telling me what to put in my own body, and I backlashed.

OTOH, the whole "dressing like everyone else" thing didn't matter to me at all. I thought most of the clothes kids my age wore were freaking ugly and I wouldn't put them on, anyway. I avoided the "hip" places at the mall like the plague. I liked what I liked, not what everyone else liked (unlike ds1, who really does seem to think that having 3" of his boxers showing is flattering *sigh*). That must add a whole other layer of pressure.









I don't know if there's anything here that's helpful or not...

OH, god there are so many issues with her. The next therapy session will be a doozy. She wants so badly to be 20, and she's always trying to be 'sexy.' I know that is part of the reason she threw the sports bras away.
It's also part of the attachment disorder, inappropriate sexual acting out, so clothing issues are going to be something that comes up occasionally, but it's a comic/tragic thing at times with her. We've gone to try on swimsuits and she's gotten mad when a bikini didn't transform her into a teen goddess, which of course it won't, and I do feel badly for her that she's heavy, but part of me just doesn't understand why she's always wanted to be an adult from the first time I met her.







It's such a bizarre psychological thing and it's so frustrating to deal with someone who is so emotionally immature and confused in so many ways yet convinced they know everything.

Half the time I desperately want to save her and half the time I just want to scream.

We just had some of the relatives ask if she could come visit during the summer. As if.







They should be paying some of the therapy bills. These UAVs took her to visit the relative that molested all of them when he was on his death bed (before I met any of them, before biomom died) and dh was at work.







Can you freaking believe that? When I found _that_ out about 3 years ago my head exploded. What kind of a UAV lets their neice anywhere _near_ the person who molested them? And _why?_

So I don't know how much of her acting out is from her disorder, and how much is from [email protected] her relatives have said/done to her, or if anything happened when they took her to meet that old UAV, or what?







I can't even say what I would have done if I had been in her life when they did that because I'm sure I'd get kicked off MDC for it. Those people are seriously lacking in common sense, and should never, _ever_ be left alone with anyone's children.

And then, too, thyroid disorders run in her family on both sides, so I've still got that to follow up on, and childhood stress can actually screw up your cortisol levels leading to adrenal fatigue and thyroid disorders later, which gives her _another_ risk factor, so I have another reason to be diligent about pressing the doctor to check her every year. I'm still convinced her thyroid is slow, and that makes it that much harder for her.

We've got a minimum of 7 more years to help her before she can tell us to leave her alone, yk? If nothing else, we've got that. Despite the weight issues, she's really made a lot of progress in the last year psychologically and academically, so there _is_ hope. And, as much as I bitch about the airlines and the high fares, as long as they stay high, the obnoxious relatives stay away.


----------



## Cherie2 (Sep 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
And, as much as I bitch about the airlines and the high fares, as long as they stay high, the obnoxious relatives stay away.









there is always a silver lining


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
Do you know for sure that it's the fat that's the problem? I find nothing "ew" about eating a spoonful of butter. Most of the people in my family, for the last 4 generations, have happily had a slice of butter as a snack or nibbly - just as some would eat a piece of cheese (although generally smaller). I'm fat. One of my siblings who did this _was_ fat (now, she's skinny through SlimFast and starvation and probably the least healthy she's ever been, but that's another issue entirely). However, the others in the family who did this aren't fat - normal to skinny. My great-aunt, who is _very_ thin, and 95, has snacked on butter her whole life.

Honestly - almost every overweight person I know, including me, has the same food issues...too much food, in general (I'm improving on that one a lot) and _sugar_...carbs, in general, but mostly sugar.

It's the only thing I can think of, actually. But now that you mention it, it could just be that so many people have noticed it. When I think of how many calories are involved it's the only thing I can think of that really adds up.









She doesn't really have access to extra snacks at school, (unless someone is giving her something?) or seconds at lunch if she's at school, so the only place she can overdo is with dressing, butter/margarine, etc.

But fats and candy seem to be the things she wants. She's not a huge carb craver other than sugar. Once in a while she wants ice cream or cheesecake, like if we're out somewhere, but she's not a huge dessert person, just candy, gum, and dressing, mayo, margarine/butter.

Things that most people eat plain she thinks need to be dipped in something as well. I prefer that we eat veggies and grilled fish, chicken or meat most of the time, and fortunately we don't go out much because most of what is available here is fried, gravy covered, ick. Loco moco, anyone?







I like homemade pizza and was shocked the first time we had pizza together and she dipped every bite in ranch dressing. EW. A sandwich had to have mayo slathered on each side and dripping out the sides. A baked potato had to have bacon bits, margarine and sour cream until you couldn't see the potato under all of it. Fried chicken, which is fatty enough, every bite dipped in ranch dressing.

I dunno, maybe I'm crazy, but I'm thinking it's _gotta_ be fat. And yeah, dh is at fault for letting her get started doing all that.


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cherie2* 
there is always a silver lining











3 guesses why we moved here?


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
It's the only thing I can think of, actually. But now that you mention it, it could just be that so many people have noticed it. When I think of how many calories are involved it's the only thing I can think of that really adds up.









She doesn't really have access to extra snacks at school, (unless someone is giving her something?) or seconds at lunch if she's at school, so the only place she can overdo is with dressing, butter/margarine, etc.

But fats and candy seem to be the things she wants. She's not a huge carb craver other than sugar. Once in a while she wants ice cream or cheesecake, like if we're out somewhere, but she's not a huge dessert person, just candy, gum, and dressing, mayo, margarine/butter.

Things that most people eat plain she thinks need to be dipped in something as well. I prefer that we eat veggies and grilled fish, chicken or meat most of the time, and fortunately we don't go out much because most of what is available here is fried, gravy covered, ick. Loco moco, anyone?







I like homemade pizza and was shocked the first time we had pizza together and she dipped every bite in ranch dressing. EW. A sandwich had to have mayo slathered on each side and dripping out the sides. A baked potato had to have bacon bits, margarine and sour cream until you couldn't see the potato under all of it. Fried chicken, which is fatty enough, every bite dipped in ranch dressing.

I dunno, maybe I'm crazy, but I'm thinking it's _gotta_ be fat. And yeah, dh is at fault for letting her get started doing all that.

Yeah - it definitely sounds like she's got a real fat thing going on. That's really unusual. I agree with...was LTB?...it sounds as though there's some kind of chemical/biological imbalance.

I can't imagine how frustrating this is. With all the other problems, getting to the root of this is going to take a long time.









Good luck...and I hope airfares stay high, in some ways.


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
Yeah - it definitely sounds like she's got a real fat thing going on. That's really unusual. I agree with...was LTB?...it sounds as though there's some kind of chemical/biological imbalance.

I can't imagine how frustrating this is. With all the other problems, getting to the root of this is going to take a long time.









Good luck...and I hope airfares stay high, in some ways.









With so many things going on it will take a while to unlock the mystery, I think, and we've had so many victories I don't want to stress on it and make her backslide. I just feel so bad for her, having watched my weight go up and down and seeing the difference in how people treated me when I ballooned and went back down again. Kids are so mean it has to be worse.

Yeah, part of me would like to be able to take a vacation, but the flip side of that is too scary to think about.


----------



## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Thing is though, that parents criticizing because kids criticize doesn't undo what the kids do, just piles on top of it, kwim?


----------



## Amylcd (Jun 16, 2005)

Quote:

It's so screwed up. I completely remember being thin and thinking how can people be fat when I sometimes eat just because something smells good and I can't keep any weight on? God, I was an idiot. I'm pretty sure becoming hypothyroid was karma for me.
Me too. Until I got pregnant with my first child, I was 5'7" and 120 at the heaviest. I ate junk food constantly. No veggies, no meat, at times no fruit... I literally survived on candy, and fast food (sometimes for breakfast, lunch, and dinner) _daily_ for years and never gained a pound. Now I'm almost 200 pounds can not lose no matter what I do.


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amylcd* 
Me too. Until I got pregnant with my first child, I was 5'7" and 120 at the heaviest. I ate junk food constantly. No veggies, no meat, at times no fruit... I literally survived on candy, and fast food (sometimes for breakfast, lunch, and dinner) _daily_ for years and never gained a pound. Now I'm almost 200 pounds can not lose no matter what I do.

Pregnancy and heavy blood loss in childbirth _may_ be what triggered my hypothyroidism, though it's also possible I was keeping symptoms at bay for years by smoking since I stopped when I got pregnant, too. But I didn't start feeling lousy until after I had ds. And me too, 5'7" and usually 115 to 120.
Ate constantly just to keep from losing weight. Now I eat more normally, but it's amazing to me how much I used to eat. No wonder people thought I was a pot-head.


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaJenese* 
When I was about that age I started to pack on the pounds. My mother taught me how to cook. At the time I thought it was just something for us to do together. Now I see that while we were doing it she taught me about why each ingrediant was good for me, what a portion size was, why we might use yogurt instead of oil or butter and why that was a better choice. It brought an awarness about food choices and my weight leveled off. Might you two be able to do this together?

I'm also trying to figure out if everyone in the house needs to eat differently from each other and how we're going to work _that_ out.









My dh insists margarine is better than butter and I won't touch the stuff, I think it's poison. I cook with butter, olive oil and palm shortening, he uses margarine at the table, while I use butter at the table. I already make all our bread, pancake mix, and so on to avoid processed [email protected], and then he brings that into the house.







He also fed the children McDonalds, candy and store bought cream filled cookies the other day, but then it's my responsibility to worry about what dsd eats? Okaaaaaaay.







:


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
Thing is though, that parents criticizing because kids criticize doesn't undo what the kids do, just piles on top of it, kwim?

Yeah, so I try to never tell her she's heavy. I'm sure she's aware of it. which is why it's kind of a double edged sword with trying to help her find clothes that look good, because if you tell her something doesn't look good, well..._why?_ Yikes.


----------



## fork (Feb 7, 2007)

I think at her age what is most important as far as clothing goes is what SHE feels good in and is comfortable in, even if it doesn't look good. I've been fat my whole life, and middle school was really the worst. Looking back I wore a lot of ugly and unflattering things, but at the time I felt like I looked great and I was wearing the same kinds of clothes as the popular kids (even if it didn't really fit well), and I think that was very important to me keeping my sanity. Sure, someone will probably make fun of her, and it sucks, but middle school kids would find a way to make fun of each other no matter what. I remember one time wearing this brand new shirt that I got with cupcakes on it. I thought it was the coolest thing ever. It seemed like everyone made fun of me for it, and yeah, I was upset about it for quite a while. I never wore that shirt to school again, but I did wear it on the weekends. I would have been hurt much more if my mom said I shouldn't wear it than anything my peers could have said. By the end of highschool I had my own group of friends, and I had my own style (still very unflattering) and what other people said didn't really bug me much.

Today I'm still fat, and I have been told quite a few times that I dress very well. I've finally figured it out I guess. What I think is more important was that I finally figured out how to love myself the way I am.

I kind of get the vibe, and I hope I'm wrong, that you are embarrassed to be seen with her when she "doesn't look good". Just let it go, let her wear what she wants, even if it might be a little too small, or too long, or whatever. By all means give advice if she asks for it, but otherwise stay out of it.


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fork* 
I kind of get the vibe, and I hope I'm wrong, that you are embarrassed to be seen with her when she "doesn't look good". Just let it go, let her wear what she wants, even if it might be a little too small, or too long, or whatever. By all means give advice if she asks for it, but otherwise stay out of it.

No, it's more a case of not wanting to send her to school in something I'm afraid she's going to be made fun of in, yk?







Sometimes I think when she's wearing something unflattering it will make it worse for her. Especially when I hear her point out how bad something looks on someone else...like when we're out and she says _that woman should not be wearing that top with her middle showing_ or _that girl shouldn't be wearing that._ She can tell what doesn't flatter _someone else,_ apparently, and has picked up on the not so nice comment-making habit, it seems.







:


----------



## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

I googled "large band" "small cup" and got some promising looking results.

Also, this seemed like a great idea:

"How many bra extenders can I use for a bra that wouldn't fit without them?
Bra extenders are wonderful items . For a small price of $2.00, it can provide the perfect fit. When you are between sizes by 1/4 of an inch, the extender can be used and it will not throw off the fit of the bra. More than one extender is like wearing a size 10 shoe when you really wear an 8. The shoe fits, but poorly providing no support or comfort. The best use of a bra extender is when you have a large band and a small cup size. Generally, the cup is too big. You can go down a band size with an extender and the cup will be a much better fit. I have seen women with 2 or 3 bra extenders come in and tell me that they are a 40c for example, but in reality, with the extends they are closer to a 44-46. There is no comfort or fit with more than one extender."

Have you checked Lands End, Sears and JC Penney for their plus girls clothes? They don't have any sleepwear or lingerie in plus size, but a pretty good selection of t-shirts, pants, skorts and swimwear.

ETA: This is an interesting study: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/124275.php


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chfriend* 
I googled "large band" "small cup" and got some promising looking results.

Also, this seemed like a great idea:

"How many bra extenders can I use for a bra that wouldn't fit without them?
Bra extenders are wonderful items . For a small price of $2.00, it can provide the perfect fit. When you are between sizes by 1/4 of an inch, the extender can be used and it will not throw off the fit of the bra. More than one extender is like wearing a size 10 shoe when you really wear an 8. The shoe fits, but poorly providing no support or comfort. The best use of a bra extender is when you have a large band and a small cup size. Generally, the cup is too big. You can go down a band size with an extender and the cup will be a much better fit. I have seen women with 2 or 3 bra extenders come in and tell me that they are a 40c for example, but in reality, with the extends they are closer to a 44-46. There is no comfort or fit with more than one extender."

Have you checked Lands End, Sears and JC Penney for their plus girls clothes? They don't have any sleepwear or lingerie in plus size, but a pretty good selection of t-shirts, pants, skorts and swimwear.

ETA: This is an interesting study: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/124275.php

I've checked, but our stores here are not well stocked, and until I can find something that fits her I won't know what size she takes. The shirts are always out of stock and the pants are few and far between. Shopping in Hawaii is awful and shipping is just too expensive to send things back and forth if they are the wrong size. I need to know what size she takes in their brands before I order. JC Penney, the last time we were there, had NO junior plus size shirts in stock and only a few pairs of junior plus size jeans, and at the time we had just bought jeans so all we needed were shirts. Now it's time to check sizes again so maybe next time we're on that side of the island we can try on _if_ they have anything in stock.


----------



## mommajb (Mar 4, 2005)

At jcp we can do catalog shipping to the store w/o an extra shipping charge. Is this a possibility for you?


----------



## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

Lands End standard shipping includes Hawaii at no additional charge.

http://www.landsend.com/customerserv..._shipping.html

Also you can return to Sears stores for free return shipping.

I understand your frustration; my dd1 is overweight and has sensory issues. We've worked hard together to find clothes that are cute and acceptable on a sensory level for her.

Keep posting! I'll keep looking around!


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommajb* 
At jcp we can do catalog shipping to the store w/o an extra shipping charge. Is this a possibility for you?

Possibly, but I still have to drive to the other side of the island. I haven't tried that because a lot of stores who claim to ship to any store _really_ _don't_ ship to Hawaii. Lowe's, Home Depot, and some others spring to mind. I've tried many retailers and have gotten to where I stopped trying since it's never worked.

You guys are _sure_ Sears and Penney's will work? I could have sworn I'd tried them before.


----------



## LionTigerBear (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
My dh insists margarine is better than butter and I won't touch the stuff, I think it's poison. I cook with butter, olive oil and palm shortening, he uses margarine at the table, while I use butter at the table. I already make all our bread, pancake mix, and so on to avoid processed [email protected], and then he brings that into the house.







He also fed the children McDonalds, candy and store bought cream filled cookies the other day, but then it's my responsibility to worry about what dsd eats? Okaaaaaaay.







:

Wow, that would bug the HECK out of me.







My dh used to be somewhat like this . . . though not that bad. So at various times I have presented him with the research I have done, and he usually agrees with me at least enough that we can come to a satisfactory compromise. And I have often had to repeat stuff because he forgets why I want us to eat a certain way.

I'm pretty sure from my research and based on your daughter's symptoms, that as long as your DH keeps doing as he is, nothing you do diet-wise (for the family) will help her. I strongly recommend that HE read The Mood Cure-- but I know how hard it is to get my DH to read the books I want him to (he's so busy) so I know that doesn't always work.


----------



## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
Possibly, but I still have to drive to the other side of the island. I haven't tried that because a lot of stores who claim to ship to any store _really_ _don't_ ship to Hawaii. Lowe's, Home Depot, and some others spring to mind. I've tried many retailers and have gotten to where I stopped trying since it's never worked.

You guys are _sure_ Sears and Penney's will work? I could have sworn I'd tried them before.

Call the customer service people at Lands End. I swear I've gotten the best stuff from them and the CS is tremendous. Even the LiveChat people are great.

They will find out the stretched and unstreched waist on clothes, once calling down and having someone just measure it for me.

Lands End often has free shipping codes for standard shipping. I'd give them a call to confirm, but if it's true you could get free shipping to Hawaii and return them through Sears, it could save you a bundle.

And the plus size clothes (and wide shoes) are just as well made as the stuff for thinner kids.

JC Penney this season has really nice longer t's and polo's, super jeans and lots and lots of color choices in plus size girls. They go up to a 20 plus.

My kid was tickled pink to be a Medium.


----------



## Mamafreya (May 13, 2004)

I don't think this has been mentioned but if it has sorry.







I have no idea if this might be something to consider but have you looked into hypnosis at all? I know a couple of people IRL who have used it for over-eating and breaking emotional habits related to over-eating. It really seemed to help them a lot but since your dsd has some other issues going on I don't know if it would help or not. It's something I thought of though and thought I'd put it out there.

Big hugs to you and your dsd. I can't imagine how hard it is for both of you. I hope your dh will come around too.


----------



## habitat (Jan 17, 2009)

I'm so impressed with what a supportive step-parent you are and how great you're being at helping her to work through this! It seems like you are really committed to helping her achieve long-term well-being and a better body image.

I have some suggestions. I am aware that food and health lifestyle choices can often be delicate subjects. Of course, it's up to you whether they apply to your family.

In my opinion, it's not how _much_ she's eating... it's what's available for her to eat. Unfortunately, as long as she has full access to things that are going to make her gain weight, she's going to gain weight. I've even heard Dr Phil, of all the crazy people, say this. I feel that we can't be successful in being healthier by trying to make special moderations for one member of the community if the community refuses to make healthy choices together. The whole family will have to model good food choices. If I love chocolate and I'm surrounded by people who are eating chocolate, but am told that I can't have any because of "the luck of the draw", I will get upset. AND I will eat the chocolate anyway. Then I will only increase my health challenges. I will feel bad. I will feel ashamed for hiding my binges from the community. The community will reprimand me and pressure me to stop eating chocolate. I will feel distressed. I will eat more chocolate. Meanwhile, while other members of the community might not seem to be visibly showing any outer physical affects after eating lots of supposedly "healthy" conventional foods, they are still unhealthy and could be negatively affecting the behavior and/or mental clarity of the eater. I think it would be really unfortunate for your Ds to learn to binge on empty calories because of his high metabolism, only to grow out of it and have to relearn how to eat.

In my opinion, (and I'm sure you understand this) this is not just a fitting issue. This is a serious health issue. I know you're doing your best to encourage her to eat good things, but perhaps you could find creative ways to provide a better environment for her to make rewarding choices. Make your home a safe haven for her, where she can eat anything in the house. This would take some adjusting to as a family, but all of you, including your both your Dsd _and_ your Ds will benefit.

If you want her to stop craving bad things in the house, then I think it's important to stop stocking things that she can't eat copiously. The salad dressing issue, for instance, will be easily fixed if you simply stop buying salad dressing. You can have your Dsd and your Ds help you make her own yummy dressings out of apple cider vinegar, flax meal, lemon, rosemary and extra virgin olive oil (my favorite combo for salads, by the way. Fresh, frugal and 100x superior to store-bought). She can have as much of that as she wants because there are NO bad ingredients.

There are a LOT of recipes that include NO bad ingredients as part of a high raw diet. After being on a 100% raw diet for six months. I've lost 30 pounds and am now at my ideal weight of 110 lbs. My body has found it's perfect spot and hasn't dipped under. And I eat food. A LOT. I snack and graze all day without worrying.

My best advice would be to slowly transition her into a high raw diet. Only stock raw foods in the house. That's fruits, veggies, nuts and seeds. Try making fruit smoothies with her and green smoothies as meal replacements. Encourage her to come up with her own tasty combinations. Learn how to make raw (100% good-for-you) ice cream and apple pies! Stock up on fruits and nuts. This is about exciting, healthy lifestyle choices for years to come. It shouldn't be about suffering through it until she gives in to unhealthy temptations that are meant to be available to everyone else at home. If she makes mistakes elsewhere while she's out, fine. Unfortunately, mainstream society does not support healthy choices. That's why when she comes home, it might be best if she's be in an environment that's totally conducive to her needs.

This is about getting the most nutrients and energy for the least amount of calories. Raw foods are extremely conducive to that goal. It's a tough commitment, but it's a transition that can be made as slowly as is comfortable for your family. It was so much fun for me to transition into this diet! I could SEE the difference in my body, skin, hair and nails. I have huge amounts of energy. I can focus so much better and for longer periods of time. And while I know that 100% isn't for everybody, I personally will never go back to unhealthy, processed cooked food. By the way, did you know flour is an allergen?

Again, it's not an all or nothing thing. You can be "high raw". It's really about what you do most of the time. Practice a steady transition and, after an initial "detox" period, your Dsd (and the rest of the family) will see the benefits.

http://www.rawfoodlife.com/





http://www.healthrecipes.com/bodyfat.htm
http://goneraw.com/
http://www.amazon.com/Raw-Kids-Trans.../dp/0967785219






If you're interested in raw foods, PM me if you have any questions.

I wish you the best of luck in helping your Dsd make whatever changes are right for her.


----------



## LionTigerBear (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *habitat* 
Make your home a safe haven for her, where she can eat anything in the house. <snip> I think it's important to stop stocking things that she can't eat copiously. The salad dressing issue, for instance, will be easily fixed if you simply stop buying salad dressing.

I personally don't believe that the 100% raw vegan diet is the optimal one (







) however I wholeheartedly agree with the above statement.


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chfriend* 
Call the customer service people at Lands End. I swear I've gotten the best stuff from them and the CS is tremendous. Even the LiveChat people are great.

They will find out the stretched and unstreched waist on clothes, once calling down and having someone just measure it for me.

Lands End often has free shipping codes for standard shipping. I'd give them a call to confirm, but if it's true you could get free shipping to Hawaii and return them through Sears, it could save you a bundle.

And the plus size clothes (and wide shoes) are just as well made as the stuff for thinner kids.

JC Penney this season has really nice longer t's and polo's, super jeans and lots and lots of color choices in plus size girls. They go up to a 20 plus.

My kid was tickled pink to be a Medium.

Does Lands End actually have junior sizes? I've only seen girls and women's sizes, nothing in between. She's too big and too tall for girls sizes, afaik, at 5'2".

Oh, and I've been mixing up sears and penney's, we were on the other side of the island today, and penney's is catalog only, it's been _sears_ where they are never in stock in the junior plus sizes. Today it was the same story. They had absolutely NOTHING in the junior plus sizes in pants. In regular junior sizes we found 1 pair of jeans in the very largest size they carry, stretch denim, and she barely fit into those. We tried a 14 junior plus, the only pair they had in that size, and it was way too big, which means a 14 junior plus is bigger than a junior 15, so I have no way of knowing if she takes a 13 junior plus since there wasn't one to try.







: There was then a size 18 and 2 size 22s.







Of course there were _oodles_ of size 2s, 5s, 9s and 13s to choose from.









There was a brand new rack of clothing waiting to go out, and not a single junior plus on it.

Now, how exactly am I to determine what size she wears when they never have enough sizes for her to try on so we can find out?









I think lands end may be our best bet, though iirc they have higher waists on their jeans, which may not fly with her either. Going to look at the site now...


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *habitat* 
I'm so impressed with what a supportive step-parent you are and how great you're being at helping her to work through this! It seems like you are really committed to helping her achieve long-term well-being and a better body image.

I have some suggestions. I am aware that food and health lifestyle choices can often be delicate subjects. Of course, it's up to you whether they apply to your family.

In my opinion, it's not how _much_ she's eating... it's what's available for her to eat. Unfortunately, as long as she has full access to things that are going to make her gain weight, she's going to gain weight. I've even heard Dr Phil, of all the crazy people, say this. I feel that we can't be successful in being healthier by trying to make special moderations for one member of the community if the community refuses to make healthy choices together. The whole family will have to model good food choices. If I love chocolate and I'm surrounded by people who are eating chocolate, but am told that I can't have any because of "the luck of the draw", I will get upset. AND I will eat the chocolate anyway. Then I will only increase my health challenges. I will feel bad. I will feel ashamed for hiding my binges from the community. The community will reprimand me and pressure me to stop eating chocolate. I will feel distressed. I will eat more chocolate. Meanwhile, while other members of the community might not seem to be visibly showing any outer physical affects after eating lots of supposedly "healthy" conventional foods, they are still unhealthy and could be negatively affecting the behavior and/or mental clarity of the eater. I think it would be really unfortunate for your Ds to learn to binge on empty calories because of his high metabolism, only to grow out of it and have to relearn how to eat.

In my opinion, (and I'm sure you understand this) this is not just a fitting issue. This is a serious health issue. I know you're doing your best to encourage her to eat good things, but perhaps you could find creative ways to provide a better environment for her to make rewarding choices. Make your home a safe haven for her, where she can eat anything in the house. This would take some adjusting to as a family, but all of you, including your both your Dsd _and_ your Ds will benefit.

If you want her to stop craving bad things in the house, then I think it's important to stop stocking things that she can't eat copiously. The salad dressing issue, for instance, will be easily fixed if you simply stop buying salad dressing. You can have your Dsd and your Ds help you make her own yummy dressings out of apple cider vinegar, flax meal, lemon, rosemary and extra virgin olive oil (my favorite combo for salads, by the way. Fresh, frugal and 100x superior to store-bought). She can have as much of that as she wants because there are NO bad ingredients.

There are a LOT of recipes that include NO bad ingredients as part of a high raw diet. After being on a 100% raw diet for six months. I've lost 30 pounds and am now at my ideal weight of 110 lbs. My body has found it's perfect spot and hasn't dipped under. And I eat food. A LOT. I snack and graze all day without worrying.

My best advice would be to slowly transition her into a high raw diet. Only stock raw foods in the house. That's fruits, veggies, nuts and seeds. Try making fruit smoothies with her and green smoothies as meal replacements. Encourage her to come up with her own tasty combinations. Learn how to make raw (100% good-for-you) ice cream and apple pies! Stock up on fruits and nuts. This is about exciting, healthy lifestyle choices for years to come. It shouldn't be about suffering through it until she gives in to unhealthy temptations that are meant to be available to everyone else at home. If she makes mistakes elsewhere while she's out, fine. Unfortunately, mainstream society does not support healthy choices. That's why when she comes home, it might be best if she's be in an environment that's totally conducive to her needs.

This is about getting the most nutrients and energy for the least amount of calories. Raw foods are extremely conducive to that goal. It's a tough commitment, but it's a transition that can be made as slowly as is comfortable for your family. It was so much fun for me to transition into this diet! I could SEE the difference in my body, skin, hair and nails. I have huge amounts of energy. I can focus so much better and for longer periods of time. And while I know that 100% isn't for everybody, I personally will never go back to unhealthy, processed cooked food. By the way, did you know flour is an allergen?

Again, it's not an all or nothing thing. You can be "high raw". It's really about what you do most of the time. Practice a steady transition and, after an initial "detox" period, your Dsd (and the rest of the family) will see the benefits.

http://www.rawfoodlife.com/





http://www.healthrecipes.com/bodyfat.htm
http://goneraw.com/
http://www.amazon.com/Raw-Kids-Trans.../dp/0967785219






If you're interested in raw foods, PM me if you have any questions.

I wish you the best of luck in helping your Dsd make whatever changes are right for her.

See, I agree with this too. I think dad is silently sabotaging her with his food choices, while acting like it's my fault. He's the one who buys the chips, twinkies, candy, etc.







: _If I do_ indulge my sweet tooth, it's with something homemade that requires the effort of mixing and baking and I at least have the knowledge that it's made with quality ingredients, yk? _Plus,_ I have to think _long and hard_ about whether I really want it badly enough to put forth the effort of making it, which cuts way back on the number of treats I have. Usually it involves company so it's shared and there isn't the opportunity to overindulge.









We'll be hitting the farmer's market tomorrow for more veggies and fruit, hopefully I can find some more snacks she'll get excited about.


----------



## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

She looks to be a 16+ at Lands End or a regular 14/16 in the coed styles. (I use measurements rather than height and weight when I'm catalog shopping. If she needs help doing it and it's not something y'all are comfortable doing, anywhere that does alterations can do the measurements.)

Either a 14 or a 16 plus at Old Navy:
http://oldnavy.gap.com/browse/category.do?cid=7404

A 16 plus at Gap and an xxl
http://www.gap.com/browse/sizeChart.do?cid=2100

Sears online and in the stores has both girls plus and juniors plus...but NO SIZE CHARTS online!

BUT at JC Penney juniors plus starts at 5'3.5 inches, so you'd want to look in the girls department. The height for 14, 16 and 18 plus are all 61-63 inches. Just the dimensions get different. So you should be able to find a fit there:

Girls 10-20 Plus (Fuller body in proportion to height)
Size M(10) M(12) L(14) L(16) XL(18) XL(20)
Height 54-55 56-58 58-60 61-63 61-63 61-63
Bust 30-31 32-33 33-34 35-36 36-38 38-40
Waist 27-28 28-29 29-30 30-31 31-33 33-35
Hips 32-33 34-35 36-37 38-39 40-41 42-43

So, my conclusion is....Look in the girls departments until she grows a couple more inches. The girls plus should fit her.

Have fun!!


----------



## mommajb (Mar 4, 2005)

I secnd using her measurement and looking in the kids dept at LE. Also,based on our experiences I think their sizes are generous compared to others when it comes to slim/regular/plus sizing.


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chfriend* 
She looks to be a 16+ at Lands End or a regular 14/16 in the coed styles. (I use measurements rather than height and weight when I'm catalog shopping. If she needs help doing it and it's not something y'all are comfortable doing, anywhere that does alterations can do the measurements.)

Either a 14 or a 16 plus at Old Navy:
http://oldnavy.gap.com/browse/category.do?cid=7404

A 16 plus at Gap and an xxl
http://www.gap.com/browse/sizeChart.do?cid=2100

Sears online and in the stores has both girls plus and juniors plus...but NO SIZE CHARTS online!

BUT at JC Penney juniors plus starts at 5'3.5 inches, so you'd want to look in the girls department. The height for 14, 16 and 18 plus are all 61-63 inches. Just the dimensions get different. So you should be able to find a fit there:

Girls 10-20 Plus (Fuller body in proportion to height)
Size M(10) M(12) L(14) L(16) XL(18) XL(20)
Height 54-55 56-58 58-60 61-63 61-63 61-63
Bust 30-31 32-33 33-34 35-36 36-38 38-40
Waist 27-28 28-29 29-30 30-31 31-33 33-35
Hips 32-33 34-35 36-37 38-39 40-41 42-43

So, my conclusion is....Look in the girls departments until she grows a couple more inches. The girls plus should fit her.

Have fun!!

I didn't know Old Navy had plus sizes! Since they're affiliated with the Gap, I guess their size charts will be similar? Thanks!

As to Sears and Penneys, see my previous posts, I am sooooooooooo done with both of them! I've made several trips to Sears to try on (on the other side of the island) and they are never stocked in their sizes for junior plus, so we can't find out what size she wears. I'm not bothering with them again. Penney's is only catalog here and on the other side of the island, so I either pay shipping to my mailbox and go back and forth if it doesn't fit, or I ship to the store and drive back and forth. Too much hassle.

With Old Navy there is 1 brand, 1 size chart, better prices and I can get it all delivered right to me. I don't think we can beat that.







: I love Lands End, but that's a lot of money to spend on clothes for someone who is still growing and not handing them down to anyone, yk?


----------



## habitat (Jan 17, 2009)

Wow, yeah. I can see how she's having a hard time when her dad keeps bringing home chips, twinkies and candy! I would be having health challenges, too! FWIW, I think you have the right idea with restricting your own indulgences to the homemade sweets. It's soooo great that you guys shop at a farmers market for fruits & veggies!


----------



## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

One tip, sign up for the LE emails...free shipping is pretty typical and since Hawaii is part of standard shipping, I think you'd get it.

Then shop by size in the Overstocks area. I swear by them for swimwear for the whole family.

Glad you found something that'll work!!


----------



## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

I became very overweight one or two years at the end of school. I believe the following got me out with my self esteem (mostly) intact.

Old Navy! They put their size 20 jeans on the same rack as their size 2 jeans. There clothes are basic, and the exact same styles no matter what size. I have the same jeans in a size 14 and a size 4.

My parents never commented on what I ate, or made an issue of what I weighed (until I got pregnant this year!).

My dad... no matter what size I was told me how beautiful I was all the time. Sometimes it was a throw away comment-- "You and your sister are as beautiful as your mom". But sometimes he would look at me, eyes bright and tell me how pretty I was with such obvious sincerity that I had not a doubt in my mind that he meant it. (He still does, as a matter of fact). OT, I lost most of the weight I gained in college, and when I met my DH, I swear to you I knew he was the one because he would look at me the same way my dad used to.

That being said my weight is still an issue for me. But my self worth/identity is not wholly dependent on it. yk?


----------



## caudex (Dec 7, 2007)

I feel like there are a few solutions to the bra problem. Where she's an A, is it possible she could get by by layering camis, like a lot of girls who only "sort of" need a bra do? Camis should be available in just about any size you want, and wearing two under a shirt is not just fashionable right now, but also cuts down on neckline issues, too.

Or if she truly NEEDS a bra, have you tried european online stores? My size doesn't show up in American stores, so I have to order from them. I did a quick search, and the replies in this woman's blog: http://www.pastaqueen.com/halfofme/a..._shopping.html

list off several websites that cater to large band/small cup customers.

As far as the weight problem goes, I think I am in the minority when I say that I think she SHOULD be spoken to about it, but not in a way that will shame her. My brother is a big guy, 6'4. But in high school, he was topping 240lbs. When just curbing junk in the house or going outside together didn't work (he pounded carbs and LOVED condiments, especially ranch dressing) they finally sat him down. As nicely and compassionately as they could, they explained that the issue was not how he looked, but they were worried about him being healthy. They wanted him with us for a long time, and they wanted to work out together what they could do to make it easier for him to exert self control and take care of his body, because they loved him. It wasn't the most pleasant conversation ever, but they did their best, and it did eventually get through to him.

Of course, the conversation would be different for a young girl than for a 17 year old boy. But I think talking to her about her health and encouraging her to take care of herself and take responsibility is not altogether a bad thing. She's old enough to learn about food groups and portion sizes and things like that. It doesn't have to be about her appearance at all. If her disorder makes that impossible, then I'm sorry for speaking out of turn.


----------



## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
Thing is though, that parents criticizing because kids criticize doesn't undo what the kids do, just piles on top of it, kwim?

more wise words from thismama... I can't belive I missed this the first time I posted.


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

I just read something online about PCOS and I'm reading symptoms of that also as she has some of the other symptoms and it looks like something else I may have the doctor check out.


----------



## Cherie2 (Sep 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
I just read something online about PCOS and I'm reading symptoms of that also as she has some of the other symptoms and it looks like something else I may have the doctor check out.

I hope you find some solutions








and also

Quote:


Originally Posted by *texmati* 
But sometimes he would look at me, eyes bright and tell me how pretty I was with such obvious sincerity that I had not a doubt in my mind that he meant it. (He still does, as a matter of fact).

That being said my weight is still an issue for me. But my self worth/identity is not wholly dependent on it. yk?

THIS 100% this has been on my mind and I had not figured out just how to say it ... the kids will say anything about anything ... you know the whole 2 clasp or 3 clasp bra thing? but If you are beautiful in your parents eyes? well then you can do no wrong. (even if you don't beleive them, it seeps in)


----------



## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

My advice is first NO DIETS (no raw food, e2l, low-fat, atkin ect). I would really work on her self-esteem and having her daddy tell her she's beautiful and special often would be a great start. And I would definitely make sure healthy whole foods are available to her including good fats. Somehow I wish you could convince your dh to keep the junk out of the house, he can eat it out of the house or when the kids are gone or asleep.
Do keep homemade treats a part of your diet and maybe have your step-daughter help make them on the occasions you decide to have them.
Focus on health not weight.

I think you are a very kind person and trying so hard to be a good step-mom, thank you!









I had a thought about the salad dressing can you get individual servings until she out grows wanting to get a reaction with the dressing?


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LavenderMae* 
My advice is first NO DIETS (no raw food, e2l, low-fat, atkin ect). I would really work on her self-esteem and having her daddy tell her she's beautiful and special often would be a great start. And I would definitely make sure healthy whole foods are available to her including good fats. Somehow I wish you could convince your dh to keep the junk out of the house, he can eat it out of the house or when the kids are gone or asleep.
Do keep homemade treats a part of your diet and maybe have your step-daughter help make them on the occasions you decide to have them.
Focus on health not weight.

I think you are a very kind person and trying so hard to be a good step-mom, thank you!









I had a thought about the salad dressing can you get individual servings until she out grows wanting to get a reaction with the dressing?

I don't know...do they even make those? Other than the ones at fast food places, I mean.









And yeah, I wish he'd just stop with the [email protected] food.







: Hopefully when MIL gets here next month I'll have some help with that.


----------



## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

I know Hidden Valley ranch has single serving packs but I'm not sure if any healthy brands do or not. It might not be ideal but maybe it would work just until she's a little older and/or less likely to want to get a reaction with the dressing. I guess you could always buy small containers and portion it out yourself too but that might back fire I don't know.


----------



## dancindoula (Jun 20, 2005)

About the dressing, what if you just dress it yourself? Meaning add a reasonable amount of yummy homemade dressing to the family salad bowl and toss, then don't make available any more. Would that help? Maybe if she felt it needed more flavor you could leave a shaker of salt-free seasonings on the table?

Are there any fun activities you two could do together daily? I think you mentioned she didn't care for walking, but what about biking or swimming or taking a class together? For me, learning belly dancing made an enormous impact on both my physical shape and how I actually viewed my body. The dance is joyful and celebrates every part of our amazing bodies as they move and bend with the music. It helped me to appreciate all my parts in a way I hadn't before.

I wish I had some other magic words to help you. You sound like such a caring mom! I too struggled with my weight a LOT starting when I was about her age and I can relate to a lot of what you wrote about her. For _me_, emotional/self-esteem issues were the _root_ of the weight issues rather than the _symptom_; in other words, it wasn't weight that gave me self-esteem issues, it was self-esteem issues behind the weight gain. It wasn't until I was able to deal with those things (in my early 20s) that I began to see changes in my body.

I wouldn't dream of saying this must be the same thing with her, but know that even though you don't know what else to do to help her yet, your continued love and acceptance of her counts for a LOT. My parents were at a total loss for how to help me, but they never failed to tell me how much they loved me, how beautiful I was and how many wonderful things about me they admired. I can't begin to tell you what a difference that made in helping me dig out of the hole I was in. Wish I could say it didn't take so long, but for me it did. Whether you see the results of your love and encouragement right away or have to wait years for it, just know that you ARE making a difference for her, you ARE helping.


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dancindoula* 
About the dressing, what if you just dress it yourself? Meaning add a reasonable amount of yummy homemade dressing to the family salad bowl and toss, then don't make available any more. Would that help? Maybe if she felt it needed more flavor you could leave a shaker of salt-free seasonings on the table?

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....it gets better. DS eats no dressing. DH eats this nasty thousand island that is not only disgusting, but is also full of soybean oil.







DD and I eat stuff made with olive oil and balsamic vinegar, or sometimes she eats ranch. If I had my way we would forgo the salad experience altogether since most lettuce you buy has gone through a chlorine bath anyway, which is not good for you _at all._ I feel better when I've had time to beat the crowd and pick up organic from the farmers market, but supermarket lettuce has been chemically treated. _







_ To top it all off, the nutritionist advised dh that salad was probably not the best thing for him to be eating with his crohn's disease anyway. _









_So...guess who brings home lettuce all the time? _








_
Are there any fun activities you two could do together daily? I think you mentioned she didn't care for walking, but what about biking or swimming or taking a class together? For me, learning belly dancing made an enormous impact on both my physical shape and how I actually viewed my body. The dance is joyful and celebrates every part of our amazing bodies as they move and bend with the music. It helped me to appreciate all my parts in a way I hadn't before.

She and I bellydance daily, as I mentioned in a pp.

I wish I had some other magic words to help you. You sound like such a caring mom! I too struggled with my weight a LOT starting when I was about her age and I can relate to a lot of what you wrote about her. For _me_, emotional/self-esteem issues were the _root_ of the weight issues rather than the _symptom_; in other words, it wasn't weight that gave me self-esteem issues, it was self-esteem issues behind the weight gain. It wasn't until I was able to deal with those things (in my early 20s) that I began to see changes in my body.

I wouldn't dream of saying this must be the same thing with her, but know that even though you don't know what else to do to help her yet, your continued love and acceptance of her counts for a LOT. My parents were at a total loss for how to help me, but they never failed to tell me how much they loved me, how beautiful I was and how many wonderful things about me they admired. I can't begin to tell you what a difference that made in helping me dig out of the hole I was in. Wish I could say it didn't take so long, but for me it did. Whether you see the results of your love and encouragement right away or have to wait years for it, just know that you ARE making a difference for her, you ARE helping.









I just want to explore all medical possibilities in case, yk? She has a lot of medical problems on both sides that _could_ just mean she's destined to be heavy..._or_ it could mean there is something that could be treated that could help make maintaining her weight easier.







I just don't want to feel like there is something that _could_ have been done that _wasn't._


----------



## Rockies5 (May 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LavenderMae* 
My advice is first NO DIETS (no raw food, e2l, low-fat, atkin ect). I would really work on her self-esteem and having her daddy tell her she's beautiful and special often would be a great start. And I would definitely make sure healthy whole foods are available to her including good fats. Somehow I wish you could convince your dh to keep the junk out of the house, he can eat it out of the house or when the kids are gone or asleep.
Do keep homemade treats a part of your diet and maybe have your step-daughter help make them on the occasions you decide to have them.
Focus on health not weight.

I think you are a very kind person and trying so hard to be a good step-mom, thank you!









I had a thought about the salad dressing can you get individual servings until she out grows wanting to get a reaction with the dressing?

amen. very sound advice. You can support and control only your household envorment. Daily excercise isn't enuogh at this point, the whole family needs to support an active lifestyle (which means working all day and no couch/computer time). Doubtless once she learns to love an all day hike or ball game, moods and self esteem will improve and even if she never loses a pound her life will be improved.


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rockies5* 
amen. very sound advice. You can support and control only your household envorment. Daily excercise isn't enuogh at this point, the whole family needs to support an active lifestyle (which means working all day and no couch/computer time). Doubtless once she learns to love an all day hike or ball game, moods and self esteem will improve and even if she never loses a pound her life will be improved.

I used to work out for about 3 hours a day before I got fibromyalgia, so the fact that I'm exercising daily at all is such a major improvement it's amazing.

That scenario is just unrealistic for us at this time.

To me, it's more important that she understand while we all are going to work on changing our eating habits for the better (especially dad














she has to understand that in this life there are always going to be people who can get away with more when it comes to food. I'm doing my best to keep garbage food out of the house, but I have no control over the fact that there will be skinny people at school and even in her family who can eat more than she can without gaining weight, and who can get away with exercising less, too.









I also just found out she has a very obese friend at school who has been bringing junk food and giving it to her at recess and lunch, so she is eating a lot of stuff I was unaware of. If she's going to gorge herself on [email protected] whenever she is out of our sight, and other people are providing it for her, there really isn't a lot we can do to help her.







: The other girl is reinforcing the idea that we don't know what we're talking about, yet she's gained 35 pounds in the past 2 or 3 months.

If she's determined to sabotage herself, at this point all I can do is keep buying the bigger clothes and watch her do it while I hope maybe our counselor can get it through her head that some 11 year old girl with multiple weight related health problems doesn't have her best interest at heart.


----------



## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

I once had a friend that I would gorge myself with. I remember one time we bought discount easter candy and just ate and ate. Junk food can be very addictive for some of us. Depression and poor body image doesn't help much either. I did outgrow that for a bit and instead started not eating so I could be thin and thus a vicious cycle started (and continues to this day unfortunately). It is very hard to understand food addiction etc if you've never lived it yourself. Food issues are pretty complicated and not something most children can comprehend much less fix on there own. I'm 32 (almost 33) and I haven't figured it out yet or been able to concur it. And a passion of mine is reading/researching about health/healthy eating (I love healthy foods too). Knowing all that still hasn't allowed me to overcome my issues with food and body image. This crap is HARD!

If your daughter doesn't feel worthy and has low self-esteem I think it will be a losing battle until those things are addressed and worked through.

I think it probably has less to do with food and much more to do with everything else I mentioned above.


----------



## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

This book might be helpful to you: http://www.amazon.com/Your-Childs-We...ref=pd_sim_b_2

Your Child's Weight: Helping without Harming (Paperback) by Satter


----------



## RockStarMom (Sep 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Fuamami* 
I have always vowed that if I had a dc with weight issues (which I very well may have in ds1, though he's only 3), I would just make everyone eat the same thing. That means no butter or fatty salad dressing for anyone. No juice for anyone, no soda for anyone, no dessert for anyone. It won't hurt any of us, and it could only help the child with the weight issues.

Ditto. I would make these dietary changes a family thing.

As for flattering clothing, I wouldn't say anything about her looking thinner. I would just go with, "Oh, that is so cute on you!" and make excuses about the wrong color or fit with things that are unflattering.


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LavenderMae* 
I once had a friend that I would gorge myself with. I remember one time we bought discount easter candy and just ate and ate. Junk food can be very addictive for some of us. Depression and poor body image doesn't help much either. I did outgrow that for a bit and instead started not eating so I could be thin and thus a vicious cycle started (and continues to this day unfortunately). It is very hard to understand food addiction etc if you've never lived it yourself. Food issues are pretty complicated and not something most children can comprehend much less fix on there own. I'm 32 (almost 33) and I haven't figured it out yet or been able to concur it. And a passion of mine is reading/researching about health/healthy eating (I love healthy foods too). Knowing all that still hasn't allowed me to overcome my issues with food and body image. This crap is HARD!

If your daughter doesn't feel worthy and has low self-esteem I think it will be a losing battle until those things are addressed and worked through.

I think it probably has less to do with food and much more to do with everything else I mentioned above.

It's hard to know. I think I'll let the counselor sort it out.

Manipulation is so much of her disorder, and I feel like she's playing a game with me, whining about how she feels bad when people make fun of her for being overweight, and getting me to put out all this effort to help her when she's actively doing something to sabotage herself.







:

It's so complicated, and I know it's not her fault her mind works this way but it's extremely frustrating. She does have low self esteem and she gets _something_ out of getting people to scurry around trying to help her when she's not really trying to help herself. This is a pattern that repeats itself and I should have seen it sooner.









For example, she ruins her clothing and cons people into thinking we don't take care of her. She recently spent the night with a friend whose family is not very well off financially, and she conned them into buying her clothing she didn't need, pretending she didn't have a jacket.







: I was livid when she got home and showed off her new stuff, not only because she made them think we neglect her, but because they couldn't afford to spend money on clothes for her. Several times we've caught her trying to hide worn out clothing under a jacket on the way out the door and had to make her change so she didn't go to school looking like she was neglected. She has a closet full of clean, new clothing, but she'll try to sneak the ratty stuff out the door and tell people we mistreat her.

Lying, stealing, and exaggerated stories about neglect and abuse are all part of the fun with her. I just got a call last week from the school counselor that she's started going in to her office and fake crying trying to get other kids in trouble, making up wild stories about supposed offenses and they've had to just tell her to stop and go back to class because her behavior is so outrageous. We thought she'd made progress, but it turns out she's been putting on an act at home and acting out _at school_ instead.







She doesn't seem to realize she's transparent enough that some adults and even kids her own age can see through her.

She made a bunch of claims that the school bus driver was picking on her, but none of her supposed witnesses backed up her stories though she claimed every time there were several people who saw these things happen, and I can only conclude she is lying again because _she's done this before._ She's starting dramas with other kids at school and then trying to get them in trouble when things don't turn out the way she expected them to and it's always a big _conspiracy_ against her and she's the innocent victim. She sometimes forgets what she's told us and when we remind her of what she's said or how something doesn't add up, she fake cries and tells us we 'don't understand' or 'always blame her for everything.'

When you try to discuss any of this with her, she turns on the tears (and she forgets she slipped up and told us she can make herself cry) and says 'I'm just a terrible person and everything is always my fault' trying to get us to let her off the hook. All we want is for her to tell the truth and stop setting up situations where she creates problems for herself. I'm afraid other kids _are_ going to start bullying her because she's going to look like she's unbalanced and untrustworthy.

Last school year she broke the rules and was in an area where she wasn't supposed to be with the older children, pestering an older girl who repeatedly told her to leave her alone, and finally the older girl hit her. She came home and told me the girl hit her for no reason, she wasn't doing anything wrong, nothing was done about it, etc. When I contacted the school, of course I got the rest of the story and found out she had repeatedly broken the rules, been somewhere she had no business being and after several warnings from the other girl _then_ she was hit, which granted, shouldn't have happened, but was still completely avoidable had she not been doing something she was not supposed to be doing. _And_ she lied. This year, we are having the same problem in the new school. She's having altercations with older girls, on the other side of the campus where _she has no business being in the first place._ I'm terrified she's going to PO a group of girls and come home beat up or something one of these days. She's already bragging about how 'tough' her friends are.

I want to help her, but I no longer trust her and she seems to think everything is a game. So I just watch her self-destruct and wait for the next phone call from school or the next wild story. Part of me is afraid we will push her into developing an eating disorder, but part of me thinks she already had one when I met her as a 125 lb 6 year old. I don't know what to do anymore.


----------



## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

Okay her issues obviously well surpass just food (I didn't realize to what extent they were). I feel so much for you (and her). What a freakin nightmare (I hope that doesn't offend you). Huge







to you and please at least know you are doing what you can.


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

yeah. that about sums it up.









We seriously thought she was doing so much better, now we're back to square one.

I do think we have a good therapist, but yikes, our next session is going to be a doozy.

We were told to expect backsliding, but this was a bit of a shock. I'm starting to realize that almost every adult she claims is 'mean' to her is actually on to her BS and I can't ever take anything she says at face value even when I think she's doing well.







It really sucks.

She just spent 1/2 hour telling me why she has to get in the middle of a group of kids she claims mistreat her every day because there is nobody else on the bus near her own age. Reading a book, drawing, sitting up front or otherwise entertaining herself is apparently not an option...she'd rather put herself in a position where she can complain someone is abusing her every day and try to get sympathy than do something to keep herself safe....because actually the whole story is bogus. There are several kids on the bus her age and she has options, she just refuses to do anything differently. DS and the other kids who are supposed witnesses to these incidents never have been able to corroborate any of her stories, so again, I have no choice but to believe she is creating drama for drama's sake.


----------

