# told childcare workers about new carseat I ordered (RF to 40 pounds) they say it is illegal



## momtoS (Apr 12, 2006)

I mentioned that for baby number three I have purchased a Radian. I am sure I read it is good 40 pounds rf and 80 pounds ff.

They say that it is rear facing to one year old and then ff, and that anything else is illegal.

I live in Canada....any info to back up the 40 pounds RF


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## mama2soren (Feb 12, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoS* 
I mentioned that for baby number three I have purchased a Radian. I am sure I read it is good 40 pounds rf and 80 pounds ff.

They say that it is rear facing to one year old and then ff, and that anything else is illegal.

I live in Canada....any info to back up the 40 pounds RF

They are absolutely wrong. If they don't believe you, they can read the manual. It is illegal to FF a kid under one year, but it's perfectly legal (and much safer!) to RF a kid over one year in a properly fitting seat.

I'm not well-versed on Canadian law, but here's a link I found. It says that it's best to keep kids RF to the limits of their seats. In your case, that's 40 pounds (or, until there is less than 1 inch of shell over her head.)


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## tankgirl73 (Jun 10, 2007)

They're wrong.

I'm not sure if the Radian is approved to 40lbs RF in Canada, it could still be that it's only approved to 35lbs RF here (it was when I bought mine 4 years ago). But it might be updated by now, that would be great.

But whether it's 35lb or 40lb, the idea that one year old is a MAXIMUM is utterly and absolutely incorrect. One year old is the legal MINIMUM. You CANNOT turn a baby FF before one year old, but there is no law anywhere that states that you MUST turn at one year old.

Here's Transport Canada's own website information:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/roadsafety/s...stage1-221.htm

"Don't be in a hurry to start using a forward-facing child seat. The longer you use a rear-facing infant-only seat, infant /child seat, or infant/child/booster seat that fits correctly, even past your baby's first birthday, the safer your baby will be in a crash. "

There's a pdf brochure download available on that page, if you want to print it out and show them. I'd highlight that paragraph especially...

The site for "Stage 2", on forward-facing seats, says:

"Before you make the change to a forward-facing child seat, ask these questions:

Is your child too heavy or too tall for your rear-facing infant seat? There may be another rear-facing seat that will fit your child.
Does your child still fit within the weight and height given on the label for your rear-facing infant/child seat? You may be able to continue using the rear-facing infant seat until your child outgrows it."

Which CLEARLY implies that there's no need to turn at any particular age or height, so long as it's within the approved limits for THAT SEAT.

And all seats sold in Canada are approved for very specific limits by Transport Canada. There will be a sticker on it somewhere with a maple leaf. If Transport Canada itself says "approved for rear facing to 40 pounds" then it can hardly be illegal!!!

The only way you might have a problem is if you ordered a seat from the US. Technically, that is illegal because it's not approved by TC (even if the exact same seat is approved in Canada). But if it's a Canadian seat, then you're right and they are very, very wrong. And heck, even if you are talking about an illegal seat, they are still very, very wrong about turning at 1 year. It is a very common misconception, which is unfortunate, but it's still Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.


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## sunsetdancer (Jun 25, 2010)

I'd ask them to give you info how it's "illegal" to RF car seat past a certain point. They probably can't b/c it probably isn't true. I'm in the US and am not familiar with Canadian stuff but I am doubtful of it being illegal.


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## lifeguard (May 12, 2008)

They're misinformed. They are reading at least 1 year & 20lbs as only until 1 year & 20lbs.

Why does it matter what they said?


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## shanniesue2 (Jul 4, 2007)

the frustrating thing that I see with what they said is that it's possible that they could be misinforming other parents about car seat usage. I would ask them where they got that info and then correct them QUICKLY.


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

tankgirl - Yes, the radian has been updated. As of around a year ago the new radians rf to 40/45lbs depending on the model here in the states. Not sure what the limits are in Canada.


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## Riverdog (Jan 8, 2007)

I live in BC, Canada and I have an older Canadian Radian (lol). The manual states it has a RF max weight of 30 lbs and a FF max of 65 lbs, despite the fact that it is exactly the same seat marketed in the states as the Radian 80 (here, the Radian Premier). I'll be buying a new Radian in October, and the Sunshine Kids Juvenile Products Canadian webpage states the RF limit has been increased to 45 lbs, and the FF is still 65 lbs.

Your childcare providers need to check out the laws. It is a matter of life and death, quite seriously.


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## Riverdog (Jan 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Riverdog* 
the Sunshine Kids Juvenile Products Canadian webpage states the RF limit has been increased to 45 lbs, and the FF is still 65 lbs.

For the Radian Premier and XT. The Radian 65 has a limit of 40 lbs.


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## momtoalexsarah (May 21, 2005)

The Radians that are produced for here in Canada are still only 32lb RF and 45FF(5pt harness) I was looking at one last month as we where deciding what to do with youngest seat. It really really sucks because I would LOVE to have the option of the 5pt harness to a heavier wt.


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## April Dawn (Oct 31, 2009)

I
If you think it would help, maybe you could send this video to your caregivers. This video is what finally convinced my family - since sending it to them recently, I haven't heard another word against RFing as long as possible.




 HTH!


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## ElaynesMom (May 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoalexsarah* 
The Radians that are produced for here in Canada are still only 32lb RF and 45FF(5pt harness) I was looking at one last month as we where deciding what to do with youngest seat. It really really sucks because I would LOVE to have the option of the 5pt harness to a heavier wt.

Sorry, this is incorrect. As of 2010 Radians rf to 40 lbs (for the radian 65), or 45 lbs for the radian premier or XT. They all ff to 65 lbs (the highest ff weight allowed in Canada).

Other convertible seats that ff to 65 lbs are the True Fit and My Ride, as well as some of the Britax convertibles.

For combinations seats (ff to booster) the Nautilus and Frontier XT are options that harness to 65 lbs.

Often a seat is outgrown by height before weight so many children will outgrow those seats before hitting 65 lbs, depending on how high the top harness slots are.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

I wouldn't even care what they said, TBH. Are they going to be driving your kid around?


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## Devaskyla (Oct 5, 2003)

They couldn't be more wrong if they tried. If the seat is approved by Transport Canada & used in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions, it's legal.

Someone posted the Stage 1 link from Transport Canada, here's Stage 2: http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/roadsafety/s...stage2-226.htm

Quote:

If you use a forward-facing child seat too soon, your child could be hurt during a sudden stop or a crash. Be sure to follow the manufacturer's instructions for use. See Car Time - Stage 1 for information on seats for rear-facing use.
Here's the (pretty awful) Canadian laws
http://www.safekidscanada.ca/Profess...ationChart.pdf


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2soren* 
It is illegal to FF a kid under one year,

Nope. Only in BC and Nova Scotia is that true, the rest of Canada does not have an age for turning FF.


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## NaturallyKait (Sep 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ElaynesMom* 
Sorry, this is incorrect. As of 2010 Radians rf to 40 lbs (for the radian 65), or 45 lbs for the radian premier or XT. They all ff to 65 lbs (the highest ff weight allowed in Canada).


That's right, depending on the model it is either 40lbs or 45lbs rf and 65 lbs ff. 65 lbs is as high as they can legally go in Canada, the 80lb limit you read is for the US.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Irishmommy* 
Nope. Only in BC and Nova Scotia is that true, the rest of Canada does not have an age for turning FF.

New Brunswick also has a 1 and 22 lb law, like NS, plus kids also have to walk unassisted. Also, as far as I know all provinces have a proper use clause which mean it is illegal to turn a child ff in a seat before it allows, and no seat allows before 1 and 20lbs, so technically it is illegal to ff before then. The new CMVSS rules for Canada will say 1, 22lbs and walking unassisted, so then proper use clauses will make people wait until then


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchycanadian* 
New Brunswick also has a 1 and 22 lb law, like NS, plus kids also have to walk unassisted. Also, as far as I know all provinces have a proper use clause which mean it is illegal to turn a child ff in a seat before it allows, and no seat allows before 1 and 20lbs, so technically it is illegal to ff before then. The new CMVSS rules for Canada will say 1, 22lbs and walking unassisted, so then proper use clauses will make people wait until then









Not according to the link above.


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## JessieBird (Nov 21, 2008)

OP, hope you feel better! Those care givers are flat out wrong.

Momtoalexsarah, my Radian purchased in Canada and fully stickered in Canada RF to 35lbs and FF to 65 lbs. It has a manufacture date of 2008. I wish I'd waited another few weeks for the 2009s to be available as they had a RF limit of 40 lbs (had a huge fight with the store when I found this out, as there was evidence that the clerk withheld this info just to make a sale that day instead of waiting three weeks for the new stock, knowing full well my interest in ERF...but that's another story!) and SK assured me that there are structural differences between the 2008 and 2009 so I should abide by the 2008 35 lb limit or buy new seats. Ugh.

Where the number 32 comes into it and maybe this has thrown you off is that the RF height limit is stated as 32" on all Canadian Radians (haven't checked the 2010s but this was at least true up until 2009) - both on the seat sticker and in the manual. I spent hours on the phone with a CPST and also with Barbara Baines at Transport Canada before I was finally reassured that despite what the very official looking directions say, in fact the 1" from the top of the frame rule applies in Canada (commonly known in the US but not here for some reason) and that the 1" rule will be what stands in the eyes of police, insurance companies, the law, etc. (though cops at the side of the road may not know in that moment). My DS was 32" when he was only 22 lbs so going by the seat instructions would have had him turning FF wayyyy before he reached the weight limit.


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## NaturallyKait (Sep 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Irishmommy* 
Not according to the link above.

The NB law is fairly new I think, but I know it is law. I do clinics there and did my CRST training there.

The proper use law is a bit tricky, because while it is technically not against the law in the province to FF before 1/20lbs it is illegal to use a seat without following the limits and no seat in Canada has a limit under 1/20lbs.


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## tankgirl73 (Jun 10, 2007)

Quote:

Where the number 32 comes into it and maybe this has thrown you off is that the RF height limit is stated as 32" on all Canadian Radians
Actually I'm pretty sure they're remembering 32 as a weight limit. We bought our Radian in 2006, and I'm almost certain the RF limit was 32lbs. That same seat was listed as 35 or 40lbs in the US at the same time. From my understanding, it wasn't that the seat failed Canadian testing beyond that 32lbs -- it was that Canadian testing did not GO beyond 32lbs. So since they didn't test it, they wouldn't approve it.

Since then, they have obviously improved the RF testing to higher weight limits. I know the TrueFit that we bought in.. um... 2008 I think, was approved to 35lb RF in Canada at that time, and 65lb FF.

The Radian FF limit was some odd number too, like 54lbs or something, I can't recall exactly what, even though the same seat was 65lbs in the US. We're not worrying about the weight limits in our seats too much because DD is long and skinny. She's going to outgrow them by height limits rather than weight anyway. She's almost 4yo and just 35lbs, so she's FF in both seats now, but she'll be able to use the 5pt harnesses for at least another year if not 2.


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## fruitfulmomma (Jun 8, 2002)

I think the manufacturers word it funny and create some confusion. I've read something like "rear facing only under one year" on the seats, by which they mean you can not forward face if your child is under a year. But I think people read it to mean that they can only rear face if the child is under a year. They don't read on further where it gives specific height/weight information or maybe they don't understand that those apply to any age and not just children under one.

I've read this "rule" on car rental sites and also some mom on here said a social worker told her the same thing and refused to rear face the foster child.


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## tankgirl73 (Jun 10, 2007)

"rear facing only under one year" -- ah yes, that is ambiguous. Rear-facing only: under one year. vs Rear-facing: only under one year. It even took me a second to see it the "correct" way and I'm totally an extended-RF advocate...


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## ~Amy~ (Jun 7, 2009)

I'm pretty sure Radians never RF'd to 32lbs. The old 48lbFF ones RFd to 30 and then when CMVSS started allowing harnessing to 65lbs, those new Radians RFd to 35 (at the the Premier and the XT did). I think 32" was the rFing height but as of the 2010 updated models (the ones with the burgundy UAS strap and heavy duty connectors), the RFing height limit is 44" and FFing it's 53". As other have mentioned, the regular Radian now RFs to 40lbs and the Premier and the XT to 45. All three have a 65lb FFing limit.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lifeguard* 
They're misinformed. They are reading at least 1 year & 20lbs as only until 1 year & 20lbs.

Why does it matter what they said?

Because they're taking care of the OP's child and could get her child killed thanks to their ignorance. Plus all the other parents they're lying to and all the other children who are more likely to die as a result.


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## nutritionistmom (Jun 16, 2007)

That link does not appear to be very accurate, at least not as far as Ontario law is concern. At any rate, in our clinics we teach that a child can remain RF until the weight limit of the seat (or outgrown by height). Second best is RF until two yrs. Last choice: 1 yr, 22 lbs and walking unassisted.


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