# Not Mama Yet Tribe Winter/Spring 2011!!



## oiseau

Welcome to the Not Mamas... Yet Tribe, Part XXII (Winter/Spring 2011)
















(Thanks Rico'sAlice for the text and Jenne for the previous thread sheparding!)

Iaorana! As-salaamu `alaykum! Merhaba! Γεια σου! Ãyubõván! Jambo! Hola! Boa tarde! Ciao! Guten Tag! Bonjour! Magandang Hapon Po! Selamat petang! Konnichiwa!

Hello! Returning members, glad you made it over, hope the trip wasn't too hard. Just put your feet up and relax for a while. We've got organic lemonade, coffee (regular and Swiss-water-process decaf), pastured raw milk, kombucha, kefir, whatever you're into. (No EBM available here- Sorry. Check out the Love Thread for that.)

Newbies! We are sooo excited you're here. We hope you stay a while and never leave... unless it is because you become a mama.

Anyway, this thread was originally started to give those of us who are not yet parents a forum here at MDC to discuss the unique concerns of those who are into NFL, and excited about AP but don't have any munchkins to apply these concepts to...yet. (Although some of us have furbabies, young family members, students, etc. that we are involved with.)

As I mentioned, a few of us have gotten pregnant while here, others are TTC now, some in the next few years, some of us aren't even close. We've also had the occasional visitor that is a "Not Mama...EVER" ie, male nannies and such. We're happy to have all y'all!

So here we are. And here you are. Let the party begin!

NMY Offshoot Threads

NMY Graduates Love Thread
NMY Graduates Love Thread, Part Two
NMY Graduates Love Thread, Part Three
NMY Graduates Love Thread, Part Four

NMY Graduates Love Thread, Part Five
NMY Fitness Thread

Official NMY Status Roster
Getting to know you...getting to know all about you...

Post in the thread if you want your information added, updated, or changed. If it seems as if I didn't see it, send me a PM. Thanks!

Graduates

Katt, age 30 mama to Teotimo since 12/27/06
~Shanna~ mama to Fenton Edward since 3/26/07
Holiztic mama to Quinn since 4/13/07
BeccaBear, age 28 -mama to Alexander Lewis since 5/6/07
Rico'sAlice, age 27 - mama to Johannes Edward since 5/20/07
turtle81 , age 25 - mama to Phillip since 6/02/07
farmama, age 29 - mama to Natalina since 7/17/07
Maela, age 26 - mama to Maev since 7/17/07
jodib, age 29 - mama to Rosalie Jayne since 7/23/07
PiePie, age 36 - mama to since 8/16/07
arelyn, age 25 - mama to Micaiah since 8/16/07
hazieluna, age 35 - mama to Aidan Sebastian since 9/15/07
ATD_Mom, age 32 - mama to Alasdair since 9/16/07
Sihaya, age 24 - mama to Calvin since 12/22/07
NJ*Doula, age 27 - mama since 3/16/08
blizzard_babe-mama to Issac Vincent since 05/06/08
cking- mama to Josephine Angela since 04/01/08
snozzberry-mama to Abigail Ann since 2/16/08
witchygrrl-mama to Rhea Ann since 8/1/08
zoebird- mama to Hawk Octavian since 8/30/08
asoulunbound - mama to Samara Marie since 10/25/08
MujerMamaMismo- mama to Sebastian Felix since 12/21/08
Kriket - mama to Sirius J since 4/24/09
Mama Khi - mama to Abigail since 6/18/09
Sk8ermaiden - mama to Elle since 7/12/09
CourtBChase - mama to Eleanor Sage since 7/19/09
AsYouWish- mama to DonnaLucia since 9/14/09
JessicaRenee - mama to Jude since 9/25/09
Texmati - mama to Ishaan since 9/22/09
LibertyBelle- mama since 10/09
CalaRei- mama to Tycho & Kepler 10/29/09
jaclyn7 - mama to Kiefer since 11/26/09
Andee-mama to baby Danger since 12/08/09
MEcatlady17- mama to Hannah Lee since 1/19/10
GuavaGirl-mama to Eli James since 2/21/10
RhiOrion - mama to Loreli Ruth since 4/8/10
Oztok5 - mama to a little boy since 5/3/10
Tippy - mama to Julius Luciano since 5/30/10
APBTlover - mama to Bronagh Rose since 10/10/10
Monarchgrrl - mama to Sophia since 11/2/10

Jenne - mama to Audren since 2/11/11

Pregnant

Neuromancer due 4/5-2011

TTC Now & Later
aquarius aspiring (2011?)
ashcav
Brown Lioness
bubbledumpster (July 2011)
cak1207 (currently)
CAndMe
Cari (summer 2011)
Charliemae
Freud
habitat (January 2012)
Hesperia (currently)
JlyGrnMigt (August 2010)
Knittinanny
Kyamo (currently)
lakeruby (summer?)
lapis (currently)
monkeyscience (now-ish!)
MrsD08 (currently)
musiclovinglife
nemrac917 (2012?)
objet_trouve (2010)
Oiseau (sometime between 2013-2015)
Shaina
sleepingbeauty (Jan 2013)

stardogs (2015)
stretch358
zejh-mama to Joseph







10/9/09

Not Sure Yet
Chloe2326
gfreelishy
joiedevivre184
KaylaBeanie
Kimiij
Knitty Gritty
ladyinred
Sage.Naissance
TwilightJoy
Zephyrine

Planning to Adopt
crunchysamma
w8ing4myDD








Birthdays









January
Tippy...15th

February

Monkeyscience...5th
Kyamo&#8230;10th
Neuromancer...19th, 1977

March
stretch358&#8230;5th
CAndMe...8th

April
APBTlover

stardogs...5th
Cari...16th

May
bubbledumpster...12th
RhiOrion...19th
ashcav...22nd, 1987
lapis...24th

June
sleepingbeauty...23rd, 1989
Jenne&#8230;24th

July
ladyinred&#8230; 4th, 1981

August
Oiseau...5th
KaylaBeanie...17th
Sage.Naissance...28th
joiedevivre184...26th

September
Knitty Gritty... 6th
nemrac917...17th

October
JlyGnrMigt...8th
Hesperia...12th
Brown Lioness...16tn,1979

November
MrsD08...3rd
zejh...18th
Monarchgrrl...20th, 1977

December
Shaina&#8230;5th, 1988
Knittinanny...12th

Post in the thread if you want your information added, updated, or changed. If it seems as if I didn't see it, send me a PM and I will do my best to fix it. Thanks!


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## oiseau

Hi All! Welcome to our new Winter/Spring thread!

I seem to have lost the links to most of the various NMY Graduates Love Threads in the software transition, but I fixed the ones I could!


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## monkeyscience

You can change me to TTCing-ish right now (not preventing, anyway). And my birthday's February 5th. Thanks for the new thread!


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## stardogs

LOL if you really want you can add me to the TTC list for early 2015, but it's a loooong way off so do whatever you'd like with that info. My bday is April 5th, so add me there as well if you can. 

We're gearing up for a winter storm starting early Monday morning - snow turning to sleet/freezing rain, etc.







I stocked up at Whole Foods since I was going to get groceries tomorrow and figured I might as well get the essentials tonight just in case - it was a bit of a mad house. Hope everyone is staying warm where ever you may be! (Or cool if you're in the southern hemisphere lol).


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## oiseau

I updated both of you! Stardogs...you can just keep chilling with me until 2015!!

We had snow here yesterday, but nothing major. Maybe our Snowpocalypse last year means we won't get much bad snow this year. We recently replaced our crappy truck with a Forester, so we're good with 2 AWD cars now. I told my fiance that now we can absolutely only have 2 kids because Foresters are notoriously bad for car seats....we'd never get 3 across! Two will probably be enough of a challenge!


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## stardogs

I have an Impreza and love it (esp the standard AWD!), but we'll need to upgrade soon - I can only fit 2 people and 2 dog crates and I'll need more room when we get our next puppy and/or when we have a LO. 

Schools were closed again today, though the roads seem to be aok - the snow didn't amount to much, only about 1.5" with a thin layer of ice - the refreezing is what caused the most trouble.


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## oiseau

My car is an Outback. We're totally a Subaru family (my dad and my brother drive Outbacks too).

What kind of dogs do you have? I've been working in a vet office for the past couple months, so I'm getting lots of exposure to dogs. (I'm naturally more of a cat person).


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## Cyllya

Hi, I've been meaning to join this tribe.

I used to never want kids, then for some reason I grew to want only one kid. But when I found out about AP and radical unschooling and stuff--when I found out that parent/child relationships didn't have to be like what I grew up with--I started wanting like five kids. Heh.

I still have a lot to do before I can start TTC though.









Things that NEED to happen first:

--DP and I need to get on better financial ground. We both currently have low-paying temp jobs, and combined we have about $120,000 in student loan debt! We actually can't pay the loan bills every month. My mom pays for part of mine, and DP got the loan company to agree to an "interest only" program (so he's paying $400 per month without the principle going down at all.







)

--I need to get DP on board with at least some of my parenting ideas.







I know he's still pro-spanking.







I think I've at least mostly won him over on homeschooling.

Things I really really WANT to happen first:

--I want to get in shape. I'm 165 lbs (5'3"), and carrying the laundry to and from the laundry room wears me out.

--I want to improve my diet. I kind of want to be whole-foods vegan, but I'm open to other ideas... but I know what I'm eating now is no good.

--I want to make money in a way I can be proud of. I want to start a home-based business that makes at least a reasonable income. The idea of having both kids and a job is my personal vision of Hell; imagining it seriously makes me want to die--no exaggeration. I suppose I'd be fine if DP made enough for me to be a SAHM, but how am I supposed to teach my children how to make a living if I've never been able to do it?

--We settle down permanently.

--We have a washer and dryer in our home instead of having to use a coin laundry, which would make cloth diapers WAY too expensive.

It doesn't look like babies are gonna happen any time soon. I've had a pregnancy scare twice in the past, and both times I was kind of disappointed.


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## stardogs

I have two shelter dogs - Ziva is a corgi mix and Kestrel is a cattle dog (possibly mixed). Both dogs compete in various sports: agility, disc dog, dock dog, and Schutzhund.







. I'm actually writing this from an agility trial as we speak!


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## oiseau

,


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## habitat

Oiseau, could you put me up for TTC in January 2012? I've set myself a deadline.

I feel like I'm in a pretty great place. Still living with nine friends and feeling amazing about it.

My List of To-Do's.

- *Start a WAHM business*

RIght now I'm nannying an adorable infant part time (3 days) to cover the basics (rent, bills, food, loans, $100ish spending and emergency per week), and trying to get a few projects off the ground to create a second income that will be 100% savings for TTC. That will ideally become my WAHM situation when I'm ready to work part time again. I'm doing publishing projects, in the middle of getting a magazine off the ground, self-publshing children's books, etc. A partner of mine who is a very experienced knitter and pattern writer (for Vogue and Knitty) has expressed interest in creating a pattern and clothing business that specializes in nursing gear and tops/dresses/coats that are easy to wear baby skin-to-skin in. We are psyched about this.

- *Healthy* *Vegan Diet*

It's important to me that I'm 100% whole foods vegan by the time I start TTC. No soy or gluten and very low on refined sugar.

- *Be Real*

My resolution is to be unfalteringly honest about my needs and expectations for growing and raising a child. I've been good at being open about these things so far, and it helps that I am a part of an amazing (!!!) and marvelously supportive community. I'm TTC as a "Single Mother By Choice". What this means for me is that I'm creating a child outside of romantic relationships, with a known donor, as the child's sole parent. It does not mean I'll be single romantically. I am queer/polyamorous have one definite long-term partner and more than one more casual relationship. We are all good friends with a focus on radical honesty and communication. I know it will work because I know and trust my partners and myself, but that's not to say it doesn't beg being perfectly clear and being open to the feelings of those around me.

The great news is that I HAVE A DONOR!!!

One of my absolute best friends has offered his sperm as a known donor. I am so happy! Things are falling into place!










One step at a time.


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## Brown Lioness

Quote:


> Welcome Cyllya!
> 
> I SOOOOO feel you on the WAHM point, because thas why I am still waiting. I have no idea how most people do it.....have kids...work for someone else in a job they may or may not care for and still try to manage a life. I mean the cost of daycare is more scary to me than pregnancy and birth! It is most definitely NOT something I want to do at all. If we're going to have kids, we HAVE to do it as a self-employed WAHM family.
> 
> Originally Posted by *Cyllya*
> 
> Hi, I've been meaning to join this tribe.
> 
> I used to never want kids, then for some reason I grew to want only one kid. But when I found out about AP and radical unschooling and stuff--when I found out that parent/child relationships didn't have to be like what I grew up with--I started wanting like five kids. Heh.
> 
> I still have a lot to do before I can start TTC though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Things that NEED to happen first:
> 
> --DP and I need to get on better financial ground. We both currently have low-paying temp jobs, and combined we have about $120,000 in student loan debt! We actually can't pay the loan bills every month. My mom pays for part of mine, and DP got the loan company to agree to an "interest only" program (so he's paying $400 per month without the principle going down at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> --I need to get DP on board with at least some of my parenting ideas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know he's still pro-spanking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think I've at least mostly won him over on homeschooling.
> 
> Things I really really WANT to happen first:
> 
> --I want to get in shape. I'm 165 lbs (5'3"), and carrying the laundry to and from the laundry room wears me out.
> 
> --I want to improve my diet. I kind of want to be whole-foods vegan, but I'm open to other ideas... but I know what I'm eating now is no good.
> 
> --I want to make money in a way I can be proud of. I want to start a home-based business that makes at least a reasonable income. The idea of having both kids and a job is my personal vision of Hell; imagining it seriously makes me want to die--no exaggeration. I suppose I'd be fine if DP made enough for me to be a SAHM, but how am I supposed to teach my children how to make a living if I've never been able to do it?
> 
> --We settle down permanently.
> 
> --We have a washer and dryer in our home instead of having to use a coin laundry, which would make cloth diapers WAY too expensive.
> 
> It doesn't look like babies are gonna happen any time soon. I've had a pregnancy scare twice in the past, and both times I was kind of disappointed.


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## oiseau

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *habitat*
> 
> Oiseau, could you put me up for TTC in January 2012? I've set myself a deadline.


Done! Congrats on finding a donor!! Good luck checking things off your to-do list!

I guess one of the things on my list is also finding a way to have enough money to raise a family with a schedule that allows one of us to be home with our kids most of the time while they're little. I think my heart would break if I had to send my kids to daycare and unfortunately we don't have family close by to watch kids for us. I'm not sure if we'll work out some time of WAH situation or if we'll try to swing it with me as a SAHM. As thrilled as I am to have my cool co-worker back from maternity leave next week, my heart breaks for her having to leave her 6 week old so soon!!


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## stardogs

I, too, want a more flexible schedule prior to becoming a mom. I'm already moving in that direction as I'm in the process of starting my own dog training business after being employed by others since graduating from college. So far I have 2 clients even without marketing.  I'm excited because in the next few years, my earnings will go to one of two things: dog expenses and savings, and then when a LO comes along I can adjust my hours to accommodate our needs as they change. This will also allow me to get out of the house regularly, bring in supplemental $$, and maintain my skills so I can go back to a busier schedule after the LO is in school; seems like a win-win.


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## tank

Hey not mamas. I think I will fit in with yall pretty well. We are curently TTC. I am 29 and a dog groomer. We have 2 furkids (dogs.) I am also vegan and have been for over 10 years so if you guys need some advice or cookbook/website reccomentdations I am full of those.

As of right now I don't know what our plan would be if we are sucessful. I make way more than my partner and love my job but can't imagine leaving my child in daycare right away. I guess I'll never know how things pan out until I am faced with those decisions.

Oh and I have a lot of debt as well and if I waited until it was under control to ttc I would probably start when I'm 80!


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## Brown Lioness

to all the new NMY's!


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## KaylaBeanie

Hey ladies! Long time no see! I'm just subbing for now, but it's nice to be back. Life is just more of the same, work and school. I'm at the point now where I have to pick out what I want to do with my life and it's scary. Part of me wants to do something like become a marine biologist or doctor, but the other part of me wants to be a SAHM. It's hard because I wish I was one of those people who genuinely liked cooking, cleaning and running a home but I HATE it and know I couldn't be happy as a full-time SAHM longterm. It's so hard to make decisions that will affect the rest of your life when you're young and single.

Since Alisha (gfreelishy) never has a chance to get online, I'll do an update for her  She's still in school, working to finish up her special education degree. She made the leap and became a vegetarian who eats vegan most of the time (some dairy in her g-free bread and for period cravings). She's working about 40 hours a week, at evil Wal-Mart and in food services on campus (college beggars can't be choosers, hehe). She's in a brand new relationship with a really crunchy guy (pro-homebirth, anti-circ, anti-mainstream) which is awesome for her!


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## oiseau

Thanks for the update Kayla!

I'm still having the same career-type decision dilemmas. I sometimes feel like all my years of college/grad school were somewhat of a waste seeing as I spent all that time/money and I don't feel at all satisfied with my job/career. I feel like I'm having to make the "what-do-I-wanna-be-when-I-grow-up" decision all over again. Part of me wants to go to vet school and part of me wants to just forget it all and just be a housewife/mom. I just wish money could magically appear to support me/us so I could go that route without worry. I actually really enjoy cooking...cleaning, not so much, but I don't mind it too much. If it was my "job" I'd deal with it though!

I had thought I was all set with an excellent raise that would allow me to just work part-time for awhile and get back on track with getting healthy again, but it turned out that the raise was a big mistake (note to future employers: if you plan to give a raise to an employee, make sure there are no errors or typos!!). I'm once again on the job hunt and wondering how we will ever save money for a baby, especially enough for me to be able to SAH. *sigh*


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## stardogs

I got to visit my bff (in MO, it's been almost 3 YEARS since we've actually *seen* each other!) last week and got home a week ago today. The visit was a good one and reaffirmed our friendship, but I do think it might've brought up some worries I have related to adding to our human family. I figure you all might be able to understand this the best (and the gloomy weather really has me being a slug lol), so here goes:


My bff, S, has two kids, a 5yo DS and a 10mo DD. Both are amazing kids and she and her DH are wonderful parents. I hope that DH and I can parent as consistently and kindly as they do, but I did find myself really having trouble picturing myself in their shoes - kids, jobs, pets all creating an incredibly hectic schedule with so many demands on S's time that even holding a convo was hard when I was in the same room. Is this something that others have run into? Seeing the life and wondering just how people do it? And whether you're cut out for it?! I honestly can't imagine having no "me time" at all and that makes me feel a bit selfish already and I'm not even at the TTC stage yet!








I've never been super awesome with little kids, though once I get to know them a bit it seems easier. I had so much fun with S's kids when they were happy, but when they started acting up or getting fussy I felt myself shutting down and not knowing how to react. Toward the end of the visit I did manage to keep her DD happy while S was getting her DS ready for bed despite her being really tired and a little fussy and that totally made me happy lol, but there again it's hard to picture doing it full time! Anyone else?
The visit was so nice even with the above concerns bubbling up and I am soooo glad I will have an awesome resource in S when we decide to TTC and during the subsequent pregnancy/birth and future child rearing. Oddly enough this has sparked baby fever a bit - how can I be totally terrified on the one hand and "screw the plan, let's do it now!" on the other?!?! I even was musing about how long ttc usually takes for people in their later 20s vs early 30s this weekend and DH was totally cool discussing it, which surprised me a little since I always think of him as highly preferring the waiting until 2015 idea. My business is just getting off the ground right now and DH is considering changing jobs at some point before we have a kid, now is NOT a good time logically, but what if it takes us a year or more to conceive? I'd really like to avoid the "advanced maternal age" label and pushing ttc off until we're 30 already does increase that risk. Ugh. I need a crystal ball...

I came home from my weekend with S incredibly grateful for how simple and relatively easy my life is and really appreciative that DH and I are just a two-some right now, but my brain has decided to work overtime I guess. Darn overthinking! Any btdt people out there? I feel so alone and don't really know who to talk to about all this.


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## oiseau

,


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## TracyGladRags

Hi! I'm new to the forums, and I guess I'll introduce myself. I'm really grateful that I found this group, I was feeling like a weirdo for being childless on these forums... like maybe I should photoshop a baby into my avatar or something.

*-Where do you want to live/where do you live?*

Portland, Oregon born and raised! I can't think of a reason ever to move, especially since my family is here.

*-How many kiddos do you want, and does anyone plan to adopt?*

I think I want two, but I honestly have no idea.

**Do you have any hobbies?**

I read, knit, spin wool, do yoga. I also spend a lot of time on the internet, unfortunately 

**What do you do as a job?*

A little bit of everything for GladRags.com 

**Any non-crunchy confessions?**

Clothes and beauty products are my weakness. I rarely buy new things, but when I do they often aren't eco-friendly.

*1. Do you have any pets? If so, what kind and what are their names? *

I have a cat named Carlos. He is the loudest, most talkative cat in the world. I also have a French Angora rabbit named The Bun, because I am soooo creative with names. My children will probably be named The First Baby and The Second Baby.

*2. Do you have anything stashed away for your future kids? (oh-so-cute outfit you couldn't not buy? Special cradle that's been in the family forever?*

Not really. I have some child development books from when I worked with kids, and from college. Mostly when I need to knit baby stuff I give it to friends who actually have babies!

*3. Favorite food?*

I haven't had breakfast yet so OH MY GOD EVERYTHING. Also coffee.

*4. What brought you to MDC?*

GladRags has advertised in Mothering for years, so we get a free copy of the magazine and I love it. I've always been interested in parenting and families (I was in the Child & Family Studies program in college) and look forward to having kids of my own... someday.

*5. Random fact about yourself*

When I was born I weighed over 11 pounds  Needless to say, I was the last child in my family.


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## oiseau

Welcome Tracy!

I do have to say, The First Baby and The Second Baby are slightly more original than going with, simply, One and Two! My cats have names but they are almost always both just called Kitty (or the somewhat toddler speak inspired Kee Cat).


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## TracyGladRags

Thanks!  When I was a kid we had a cat named Kitty Kitty... then we adopted a kitten, so we had to change the names to Big Kitty and Little Kitty. Eventually we also had Little Black Kitty. And as we cycled through cats over the years the names got reused so there were probably three Little Black Kitties in my childhood.


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## Azadehhast

Hi, you wonderful Not Mamas!

Can I join? I've been aching for motherhood for, like, 5 years, and I don't have any friends who are ready to be mamas, and my mama friends live elsewhere. So! I need to talk about the mama-yearning.

Here are my get to know you answers:

*-Where do you want to live/where do you live?*

Vancouver, BC, although I'm from Washington state, and came here via Hamburg, Germany, and I want to live on Prince Edward Island, and get going with a little homestead. (Soon! We're stashing money like squirrels, and later in the year, we'll be on the road!)

**How many kiddos do you want, and does anyone plan to adopt?*

Two, for now, but I feel sometimes like I could be one of those with LOTS of children. (Guess I'll have to get started on that)

**Do you have any hobbies?*

Lots! I knit and spin, sew from patterns I make, watch birth videos (my guilty secret!), read lots and lots, and research how to have a comfy, off-grid homestead.

**What do you do as a job?*
I'm a shoemaker!

**Any non-crunchy confessions?**
I can't resist pub fries. I know they're gross, but...

*1. Do you have any pets? If so, what kind and what are their names? *

To half-grown kittens, Luna and Jacques

*2. Do you have anything stashed away for your future kids? (oh-so-cute outfit you couldn't not buy? Special cradle that's been in the family forever?*

Yes! The cradle that's been in the family forever! And I'm thinking about starting a stash of knitted things as a balm for my mother-yearnings.

*3. Favorite food?*

Oh, mostly everything 

*4. What brought you to MDC?*

An old roommate had a subscription, which I read happily, and found my way here
*5. Random fact about yourself*

Um...my hip is double-jointed? It used to pop out of the socket and gross out high school friends.

Now, what I'd love to know about all of you!

How old are you? I'm 26.

What are the best ways you've found to fulfill your mama-longings? Being around other's children? Talking about having your own?

I'd also love to talk about how you decide is the Right Time to ttc. But I'll save it for later!


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## oiseau

Hi Azadehhast!! Welcome! I have dreams of homesteading at some point, though it'll probably end up being rather suburban homesteading (unfortunately). I've suggested PEI a few times as a possible place to live (solely because of Anne of Green Gables) and my fiance always looks at me like I'm nuts!

Also, I love your cat Luna's name. We've had two pet frogs named Luna (officially the second one was Luna Two or Two-na) and it'll likely end up being the middle name of any daughter we have!

I have a few different strategies for not exploding from the baby-crazies. One is spending time with baby/kid friends when I can. In college and grad school I had families I baby-sat for regularly, so that helped. I got a lot of snuggling in that way. Hanging out on MDC helps (or does it?....it may just fuel the crazy). Reading and researching stuff makes me feel like I'm actually accomplishing something. I also somewhat recently discovered that a good friend is similarly baby crazy, so we can get together for lunch and talk about baby stuff in person which I enjoy (and I think our respective partners are thankful for so they have a little less baby related talk to listen to!).

Anyway welcome!!


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## Azadehhast

Oiseau, actually, if you can handle the distance from the mainland, and especially if you have a telecommutiing sort of job, PEI can be quite reasonable--namely because property is VERY affordable there! That, "islandness", the redsoil, and Anne, all are drawing me. Money is always a good convincer, though, so maybe your fiance's mind can be changed!









How sweet to have a daughter named Luna. I love it!

What I wonder, non-mamas, is how do you decide when is The Right Time to ttc or have a child? DH and I have been putting it off for the last few years (we've been together 5 years, married 3) because we've been traveling and moving internationally a lot. But now we're settled, he has a good job, and we're applying to be permanent residents here, and mostly, I feel ready, ready, ready. The kind of ready where that voice inside that says "make babies now!" just won't shut up. Ah, but--we're not residents yet (meaning we could be made to leave Canada), his job is with a start-up that's a bit unstable (although they've promised to keep him on for the next two years), and we're also trying to buy property and a car soon. Part of the difficulty with DH is that, when we talk about having a child, he imagines it'll arrive right now, and he's not ready now. And I'm saying, no, wait, it'll be like a year from now!

Well, anyway, over the last few days, we've been talking about all this a lot, and, with some of his worries set to rest, we're actually going to think about TTC in the next few months! Provided, of course, that things at work settle down a bit. But still. Wow! I didn't think that decision would come out of this!

So, what do you have on your "before baby" list?


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## monkeyscience

I can honestly say I have no advice on when "the time is right," because I've been TTC since dh and I married, more or less, and because I believe that life is never going to be "perfect" for having a baby, so we might as well go for it!

I will also say, struggling with infertility, the thought of putting off TTC is scary for me, if you really want to have kids. Until you've tried, there's no way of knowing if it will be easy or hard for you to conceive, and the older you are when you find out you (or your dh) have fertility problems, the harder it is to do anything about it. Anyway, sorry to be so doom-and-gloom, but I guess watching others in their struggle to conceive has made me not wish that on anyone.


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## habitat

I decided to start TTC this August/September. Mostly, I wanted to give myself enough time to focus on my business and save some money, so that I don't have to work for a number of months after baby comes. Ideally, I don't want to have to stress about this at all when I'm pregnant. I want to put as much energy as I can into the pregnancy itself. I also set a clear date so that Baby is an impending reality in my head, a plan, and not just an abstract idea. It's sort of like an extended pregnancy, to my mind.

There were other things that were important for me to get a head start on. I want to work on my diet. I'm a vegetarian, but I'd like to eat less gluten and eliminate (or almost eliminate) animal products. I'd like to be eating well to help the TTC process and also to promote a healthy pregnancy. Having a May/June baby really appeals to me, and I wanted one more summer to be a childless early twenty-something before taking the plunge into morning sickness and kid-land. I'd like some time to work on my relationships and work things out with my chosen family of 10. I'll also be working on a written contract with my sperm donor, so I'll be quite busy in the interim.








so excited!


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## oiseau

.


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## Azadehhast

Hugs to you Oiseau, and wishing you health!

I agree with "Life is never going to be 'perfect' for having a baby, so we might as well go for it!" Yes yes yes. That's exactly what I realized recently, when I decided, we just have to do this! If we wait until the jobs are perfect or we have the perfect house or we have citizenship here, or whatever, it'll never happen! You just have to do it, and re-arrange things when necessary. And infertility is scary.

So, I'm way happy that I'll be getting my IUD out next week! I've told my love that I should get pregnant soon so I can be cutely plump at the beach this summer.









Habitat, I love your idea of "extended pregnancy", because I feel like I've been in that state for a while. It sort of gives legitimacy to this planing state of mind.


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## habitat

*Azadehhast*, congrats on getting your IUD out and your plans to TTC soon! I know what you mean about wanting to find some legitimacy in preparing early for your future family. I wonder where that weird stigma against preconception planning comes from? What's so illegitimate about thinking long and hard about the kind of parent that you want to be? Why are so many parents (mothers in particular) embarrassed about their urge to nest before specific dates are set, etc? I wouldn't mind so much (though I'd still disagree) if I really felt that it was a don't-count-your-chickens mentality, but I get more of a subtle anti-family, family-phobic vibe from young childless folks, whom I'm afraid might judge me as that *crazy baby lady*. I also think some people almost feel ashamed on my behalf for viewing myself and taking myself seriously as a parent-to-be. I don't quite have it figured out. I have just a few small items in my closet that I'm saving for the babe (one outfit, a teether, a few books), which I even have the tendency to be shy about because, well, there's no baby yet. But isn't family planning a natural, legitimate biological urge? For me, that nesting feeling set in years ago, and I would have an unhealthy time ignoring it, I think.

I also agree that it's never going to be a perfect time to TTC. That's why I've set a solid deadline. I Figure, if I look at physical pregnancy as a pending reality, I won't procrastinate on making all the other things a reality for myself.


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## stardogs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *habitat*
> 
> What's so illegitimate about thinking long and hard about the kind of parent that you want to be? Why are so many parents (mothers in particular) embarrassed about their urge to nest before specific dates are set, etc? ...I have just a few small items in my closet that I'm saving for the babe (one outfit, a teether, a few books), which I even have the tendency to be shy about because, well, there's no baby yet. But isn't family planning a natural, legitimate biological urge? For me, that nesting feeling set in years ago, and I would have an unhealthy time ignoring it, I think.


^ This, totally!

I always feel like the "weird baby crazy" person when I mention my preplanning research, even, maybe especially, with friends who are currently pregnant and/or have a new baby. Could it be that they feel a bit unprepared and have some subconcious resentment of those who have more time to plan than they do/did? I have no idea, but I do know that my list of "people who are pregnant or who have had babies since March 2010" is now up to 21 in my extended friend network! :O Craaaazy.

As to how I deal with the urge, researching, listmaking, and *I got a new puppy last week*! LOL

My list of things to do before TTCing, is mostly just designed to give DH and I a bit more stable footing before having a baby and allow me to explore some things I enjoy without the added responsibilities. DH is currently job hunting since he is feeling a bit insecure about his job currently, I'm working on building my business (it's about halfway to being in the black!!!!), and I need to do some major work on my diet, housekeeping habits, and procrastination! Plus we added the pup now because I knew I wanted a third competition dog but it needs to be a full adult before we have a child. We're still shooting for TTC beginning in January 2015!


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## Azadehhast

Oh, Habitat, you're exactly right about all this! The *baby crazy lady* freaks people out! It's as negative as "bridezilla"! I've been wanting to collect a few baby things for a while, to help out with the baby-making longing, and that stigma keeps me from doing it. Actually--isn't this ridiculous?--I have a mental stumbling block to using the words "pregnant" and "baby" in relation to myself! I want to use cutesy words to avoid the real ones. And last night, I told my dad we're going to try to have a baby soon, and I really stumbled over it. I guess because up until this point in my life, having to tell anyone I was pregnant would be a bad thing--I mean, in my mind, I'm still an ashamed 16-year-old saying, "Mom, Dad, I'm pregnant," with all the disappointment that brings. DH just called me out about being overly worried about what certain other people will say to us becoming parents (the same people who still try to talk him out of being married). So, gosh, yes, the fear of being called "baby crazy" is ridiculous, but it does come from some real social influences. And you're right, the real question is--Why are people so fearful of it? Why is planning to be a parent a bad thing?

At the very least, though, I'm so happy you brought this up, because it's been creeping in on me like crazy, and now I can identify it, and cast it off, be free to plan for my life and my children's lives, and be happy in making my dreams reality.

Also, Habitat: I'm really reveling in amazement for you and people like you, who choose to be solo parents. So many women I know want to have children, but they're desperately waiting for the right person to come into their lives first, or have single-parenthood forced upon them. Instead, you see what you want, have a real plan to get it, and will do it! It speaks of a real confidence and strength, that, quite honestly, I'm envious of!

I'm curious how you'll work out the details of at-home solo-parenthood--will you share your plans?

Oh, I feel so full of courage now! You future mamas are wonderful!


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## oiseau

You know, I'd never really thought about it that way before, but you guys are totally right about the whole stigma around planning for future parenting. It seems like mentioning it more than once or twice gets you labeled as crazy and I don't know that I've ever fully appreciated how strange that is. I definitely hide that part of myself from most people because I know I'll be judged for it or told I'm nuts. I mean, I understand my fiance's annoyance about me talking about baby things all.the.time, but I worked with one of my former co-workers for over a year before the topic of kids came up and when it did, she was shocked to find out how intensely I want kids. She said she never would have guessed. Considering it's something I'm thinking about most of the time and spend a lot of my free time reading about, why did I feel the need to hide it from her (she's the same age as me and in a similar position in life, except more into partying than me)? And in that specific case, the second time I mentioned kids, she did have a negative reaction...something along the lines of having kids anytime soon-ish would ruin my life/kids are obnoxious and crazy. That having been said, this person does want to have kids later in her life.

So why is there such a negative reaction? Why is it ok to spend tons to time researching the perfect car or TV but when it comes to making decisions about pregnancy/birth/parenting, you're labeled crazy to even think about it with more than a passing thought before it happens?


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## monkeyscience

I totally get what you're saying about the stigma. I felt very, very weird as a single woman (who would only consider children if married) talking to my friends about all the things I was learning about birth and parenting. I STILL feel weird, even as a married woman who wants children, but isn't pregnant. I especially feel weird talking to people who are pregnant/have children, because I think they probably figure I have no clue what I'm talking about, since I don't have any "experience."


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## habitat

Keep on planning, Future Mamas! I think it's important not to be shy about it, even though it's been a journey for me to be open about this. It is a part of my identity, and I take it very seriously. I think it's appropriate to send the message to others that it makes good sense to be prepared for your kids! To my mind, this is purely a social issue in western culture.

*Azadehhast*: Thanks for all your kind words and support!

... I'm not technically "single", because I do have a long term partner whom I love so dearly, and we each have intimacies outside of our relationship, but he won't be involved as a parent to my child. I actually prefer to be the sole-parent, have never planned on a nuclear family, and have been making that clear since our very first date. He's stuck with me and is actually the most supportive person in my life, and loves to help me plan. He doesn't seem to tire of answering his (understandably confused) friends' questions. He used to be a knitwear pattern designer and can't wait to make clothes for the Babe. A friend of ours is the sperm donor-to-be. Everything is coming together.

As far as how I'll do it: I'll actually be making money from home very part-time. I'll have enough savings by the time Babe is born to take at least 4 months off, and then I'll work probably 15 hours/week, 3 hours/day, all from home. I'm just getting up and running as a consultant for naturally-minded parents and caregivers. I offer my many years of experience, independent research, and tons of resources on all kinds of topics regarding gentle, attached childcare. My clients are excited about it and I'm lucky that it's had a very successful start. I'm really depending on it to cover my costs. I've also been able to save a lot of money from years of nannying full-time and simple living.

It really helps that I do live simply in a large, supportive household. I have my own big room, but my living costs are still low. We're in an expensive city, but being part an intentional community means that we pool our resources and find creative solutions. I will not have to pay for childcare, should I ever need it (I'm not expecting to need it for at least the first year). I also have a partner who has experience with kids and is excited to be involved as a close friend to Babe. Honestly, he'll probably end up being the one who will hold Babe when I'm unable to work with them "in arms", but I don't have to count on him. I am surrounded by other supportive people, should we ever part ways or take space for whatever reason. We all try our damnedest to cut costs and to live locally, thereby lowering the amount of money that we need to make. We barter a lot and share skills. We have great relationships with local farmers, and some of them provide us with a lot of organic produce for free during the growing season (excess to them). We grow/cook/can/preserve/trade/ferment/locally-purchase our food. Also, I acquire a lot of the other things I need for free or very cheap.

All of this means that I am currently able to do a lot of unpaid community organizing and social justice/youth justice advocacy in my city, and I will continue that to the best of my ability after Baby is here.

Phew! Figuring all of this out has been a long road, but I know that it's all going to be so worth it.


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## Cyllya

I sympathize with you guys feeling weird about planning for kids. I don't have baby paraphenalia, but I do read about kids, homeschooling, baby care, etc. constantly.

In my case, I guess it's because the most likely person to talk about this with is my boyfriend (DP), and I'm worried about being that woman who's already talking marriage on the second date, as guys allegedly hate that. (I just get the feeling that there's a stigma against planning for your relationship to be in a different point than it currently is.) Plus most of the people I know have such radically different parenting ideals from me that they'd find pretty much anything I say crazy, stupid, or downright offensive.

But a while ago while my DP was doing a craft project in the living room, I asked, "Hey, you want to watch a documentary about babies with me? " (Him: " A... documentary about... babies??? What, does it show footage of babies in their natural environment?







" Me: ".......Yes.") and put on The Business of Being Born from the Xbox Netflix thingy. And he's now converted to homebirth, whoo!







In fact, as soon as the movie was over, he called his brother who is planning to start a family with his girlfriend and suggested they watch it!

But it still feels weird to bring up conversations about kids out of nowhere.


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## habitat

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Cyllya* 

In my case, I guess it's because the most likely person to talk about this with is my boyfriend (DP), and I'm worried about being that woman who's already talking marriage on the second date, as guys allegedly hate that. (*I just get the feeling that there's a stigma against planning for your relationship to be in a different point than it currently is*.) Plus most of the people I know have such radically different parenting ideals from me that they'd find pretty much anything I say crazy, stupid, or downright offensive.

Yes! I totally get this! I've had relationships before that felt the same way and can totally relate. It was almost... awkward, which is a shame, really. This baby thing was a huge part of my identity, but it also inadvertently implied something about how I was relating to my partner, and what I was expecting out of the relationship. It was hard for me to talk about these things that really mattered to me, because I didn't want to put pressure on him. It made it hard for me to think about the future, because the family that I was planning sort of sometimes included him, but not always. I found that the visions that I was having most often didn't have a co-parent at all until I consciously inserted one. If I had had time-tested confidence in that relationship as a life-partnership, then it could have worked, sure.

When I eventually parted ways from him, however, I was surprised to find that I felt totally vindicated and free to plan the parenthood that I wanted! I had stumbled upon an enormous sense of relief and revelation! I had total autonomy. It was amazing. I decided that no matter who I met, I wasn't going to sacrifice that feeling or the path that I had chosen, which felt 100% comfortable for me. And then I found a partner who went into an amazing and healthy relationship with me in support of my plans, and now I have my cake and eat it, too.

I know that my path isn't the one that most women will choose. I know that financially, it can also seem unfeasible to be the kind of parent you want to be and survive as the sole provider. I do also understand and respect that having a child with someone else can be a supreme and gorgeous act of love and intimacy. But I have no healthy models of life-partnership and I really want to be as sure as I can possibly be about what I'm providing to my child.

It did help me, in my former relationship, to explain that the eventuality of my having a child was part of my identity, whether or not I was in a relationship. I told him that whether or not I had a child with him, it would happen. I explained that when I spoke about children/parenting/family life, it wasn't to put pressure on our dynamic, but rather to help me develop ideas and feelings out loud to the person I loved and trusted to give me honest feedback. This was my passion. I explained this with the utmost respect and love, and had good success with it. He's recently gotten back in touch with me to tell me that he now really looks forward to having children, and that our conversations helped him to create the gentle, mindful standard with which he hoped to someday raise his own children. He's even looking into single male adoption for the future, in case he doesn't meet a life-partner. All of this only gives me more confidence that my stance and choices are right for me.

Whichever way we come to parenthood, whether it be by adoption, single-ness (by choice or circumstance), or a deep connection with our partners, we are strong women who are ready and willing to choose to give of our bodies and endure risks to give and/or support life. How amazing is that, in and of itself?

Go, future mamas!


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## oiseau

Quote:


> It did help me, in my former relationship, *to explain that the eventuality of my having a child was part of my identity*, whether or not I was in a relationship. I told him that whether or not I had a child with him, it would happen. I explained that when I spoke about children/parenting/family life, it wasn't to put pressure on our dynamic, but rather to help me develop ideas and feelings out loud to the person I loved and trusted to give me honest feedback. This was my passion. I explained this with the utmost respect and love, and had good success with it. He's recently gotten back in touch with me to tell me that he now really looks forward to having children, and that our conversations helped him to create the gentle, mindful standard with which he hoped to someday raise his own children. He's even looking into single male adoption for the future, in case he doesn't meet a life-partner. All of this only gives me more confidence that my stance and choices are right for me.
> 
> Whichever way we come to parenthood, whether it be by adoption, single-ness (by choice or circumstance), or a deep connection with our partners, we are strong women who are ready and willing to choose to give of our bodies and endure risks to give and/or support life. How amazing is that, in and of itself?
> 
> Go, future mamas!


I really relate to the bolded. It's never been a question in my mind that I will one day be a mother. When I was a kid a lot of my play was centered around being a mommy...no pretend weddings or anything like that. It's taken a number of conversations to try to help my fiance understand this. For him, having kids is a choice...one he has to actively make. For me, that choice was made years ago and it's just so ingrained now that there's no doubt in my mind. I've always been incredibly upfront with him that....choosing a longterm relationship with me means choosing to be a parent.

It also struck me earlier that while we're talking about the stigma associated with preparing for kids well in advance and being excited about becoming parents, tons of people my age complain that they feel criticized for their choice to NOT have kids. My future SIL is very defensive about her choice to never have kids as are many other friends of mine. I guess people are critical of your choices, no matter what they are!

And yeah, habitat, it's totally amazing!! I think becoming a parent is going to be the ultimate in awesome science experiments...like, look what my body can do and look at how amazing it is that this tiny blob of a baby is growing and learning and turning into a grown up human. Totally cool!!


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## Bliss313

Hello all! So glad there is an outlet like this with other similar-minded future mamas!

*-Where do you want to live/where do you live?*

I currently live near Baltimore, Maryland, but I am a small-town girl and would much rather be somewhere rural.

*-How many kiddos do you want, and does anyone plan to adopt?*

At least two - we'll see how it goes.

**Do you have any hobbies?**

I read, run, garden, do yoga, hike, (etc..I love all things outside).

**What do you do as a job?*

I do research in parks and refuges on amphibians. Seriously.

**Any non-crunchy confessions?**

I cannot make the deodorant transition. I am still trying...

*1. Do you have any pets? If so, what kind and what are their names? *

We have two cats (Reesie and Meeko) and a dog, Kito.

*2. Do you have anything stashed away for your future kids? (oh-so-cute outfit you couldn't not buy? Special cradle that's been in the family forever?*

No, but there is stuff stashed at my MIL's. She is accumulating things in her "granny box".

*3. Favorite food?*

Italian food is my weakness. Also dark chocolate.

*4. What brought you to MDC?*

A friend (who is also a NMY!) graciously lended me some issues of Mothering. I am hooked. It was exactly what I was looking for! Also, unfortunately, my baby-longing has since worsened with the new onslaught of information and resources.

*5. Random fact about yourself*

I, too, like a previous post mentioned, am terrified to tell my parents I am pregnant (whenever that may happen). I will be devastated if they are completely nonchalant and unemotional.

DH and I had hoped to be TTC now (starting this past January), but our finances/jobs have forced that to change. I'm now trying to come up with a new plan (I have to have a date to look forward to) and a list of things to accomplish in the meantime. Until then, it's good to know others are in the same boat!


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## oiseau

.


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## habitat

Welcome, *Bliss*! This "Granny Box" thing is hilarious. Totally absurd, and yet, very typical. I think that if my nana didn't already have 10 grandchildren, she'd have the same thing going (a Great-Granny Box). I'm "giving her" her first great grandchild. But she's only 66 - a very young lady, compared to most great-grandmothers!

I also love love LOVE the outdoors and am actually thinking of building a yurt on my friends' land in Vermont. Perhaps even making it my primary home, but that's a whole can of worms! I so want my child to have a relationship with the land, but I'm torn because I'm in such an amazing community now. I've been wondering if I could somehow have both? Another have cake / eat cake situation, hopefully?

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *oiseau*
> 
> It also struck me earlier that while we're talking about the stigma associated with preparing for kids well in advance and being excited about becoming parents, *tons of people my age complain that they feel criticized for their choice to NOT have kids*. My future SIL is very defensive about her choice to never have kids as are many other friends of mine. I guess people are critical of your choices, no matter what they are!


I am very aware of this, as well. In a radical feminist/queer community, reproductive choice is a pretty paramount dialogue. I actually happen to be in the small minority of my 20-something friends for even planning on child-ness, and find myself having to do a lot of explaining. I think I will have a second child at least before anyone else in my house starts seriously thinking about having a baby, and none of them are much younger than I am. I think it's great that we have the exposure to really think about these things. It's incredibly important to make your own choices, based on what feels right to you. It's really too bad that your aunt, and other people making similar choices, feels such pressure.

The standard in our society tends to look a lot like this:

(1) Date (very preferably in hetero-normative fashion)

(2) Move in with your partner

(3) Get Engaged

(4) Get Married

(5) Talk About Reproducing

(6) Reproduce within 3 years (with no fertility "issues")

(7) Wait 2-3 Years

(8) Repeat steps 5-7, 2-3 times (preferably with a male, female, male sequence. In that order. Got it?)

My problem is not that this sometimes happens, but that it's still so staunchly expected. My friend who is thirty and who doesn't plan on ever having children made a fabric patch with a screen printed illustration of a sperm fertilizing an egg. The patch reads, "It's not for everyone". She's totally right. She has it sewn onto her backpack. I love her.


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## Bliss313

The not-grandparents-yet in my situation are at opposite ends of the spectrum. My MIL has told me she is so excited for us to have kids, to come stay with us the last few weeks of the pregnancy so she can be here for the birth (yikes!!), and she is the one with the infamous box (full of mysterious things...). My parents, however, are hippies that didn't have kids until they were in their late 30's, so I'm expecting some kind of shock/confused reaction from them. However, the hippie side hopefully will be super helpful in counteracting my MIL, who is totally mainstream with baby care and pregnancy. I am expecting some full-on family drama when homebirth (gasp!), attachment parenting, breastfeeding on demand (in public?! with breasts?! unthinkable!), cosleeping, and DO NOT FEED MY CHILD JUNK come into the picture. My sister-in-law scheduled her induction to 'fit their schedule' because the baby was 2 days late. I am the silent observer, taking notes for the future. Sigh.

I think part of the stigma around planning for babies has to do with the societal pressure to avoid the 'mom trap'. Nowadays it seems women are afraid to admit they want to be a SAHM because it would imply they are not driven to have a career, etc. It's an unfortunate perception of motherhood. I struggle with the career/family idea myself.


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## oiseau

.


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## habitat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oiseau*
> 
> Gah I just deleted a long post I was writing...
> 
> *I think the point I was trying to make was that it's like a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation. Everyone needs to just make the choice that's best for them and leave everyone else alone!!*
> 
> Most of my female friends either have or are working on PhDs and could be placed into the radical feminist camp. There's a lot of school/career drive and that seems to be how success is measured by them, so admitting that my dream job is a SAHM is pretty out-there. I guess I did struggle with the same thing myself for awhile, but being sick kinda put things into perspective for me (as cliche as that sounds!). I've recently officially made the decision not to pursue vet school anytime soon and with that choice, I'm risking it never happens. I've gotten a lot of flack for putting kids before vet school, but kids are so much more important to me than career that if I never become a vet, but I have a happy family, I'll be content.
> 
> Bliss--I would go nuts if my MIL tried to camp out at my house around my due date!! Luckily I think she's scared of me, but I'd go ballistic!! That's one of my worst nightmares of things that could go wrong around the time I give birth!


Totally!


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## monkeyscience

My mom was totally collecting baby things before she had any grandkids! In fact, she was collecting a few things before any of her kids ever married. (And in my family, baby out of wedlock would have been very frowned upon.) She has one grandbaby now - my niece is 5 months old today!







Now she's collecting even more things. She has diapers, wipes, blankets, and even a baby swing that just stay at her house so she's always ready for dn to come over.

Much to the irritation of some of my friends, I flatly refuse to associate myself with the term "feminist" because I feel that feminism is so unsupportive of my life goals. And yeah, I've heard arguments to the contrary, and yes, I certainly believe women should be able to vote and be considered real people, but I really can't support an ideology that seems to consider my intended career choice (SAHM) as invalid, or, worse, damaging to all women everywhere.


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## habitat

Eek! This is SO not the place for this, but I just can't help myself.

*quietly gets up on soapbox*









Quote:
Originally Posted by *monkeyscience* 


> Much to the irritation of some of my friends, I flatly refuse to associate myself with the term "feminist" because I feel that feminism is so unsupportive of my life goals. And yeah, I've heard arguments to the contrary, and yes, I certainly believe women should be able to vote and be considered real people, but I really can't support an ideology that *seems* to consider my intended career choice (SAHM) as invalid, or, worse, damaging to all women everywhere.


(bolded mine, of course)

*Monkeyscience*, I totally get where you're coming from. I can't wait to be a SAHM! Yay for being a Mama! *It's not that I think everyone needs to identify as a feminist in order to support it.* It's totally cool if you don't like the stigma that's been given to the term. And I definitely respect that people are at different places in self-identification, etc, but I'd be lying if I said that this part of your post didn't make me cringe a little... okay, a lot!

I know Church-going feminists, SAHM feminists, breastfeeding feminists and attachment parenting feminists. Maybe you do, too? I know feminists who read Dr Sears and feminists who read the bible and feminists who identify as republican, even. I think it's scary that much of the media is always using the word "feminist" to describe people who are staunchly against active mothering (though I've never actually met any "feminists" like that, and I know A LOT of feminists!). I have met a lot of mothers who would rather not identify as feminists because they feel that their work doesn't fit in, which is a sad fact of incentive propaganda, unfortunately. Anyone who advocates for the right for women to make their own choices, and not to be essentially owned by their male spouses is a feminist by definition. Some people use the term "feminism" to demonize female autonomy or to justify their choices to join the workforce (the latter of which would be totally credible, regardless, of course). The choice that you have to be a SAHM, to be a participant in the choice to conceive and when, and to ultimately have a say in how you parent is because of feminism. As hard as it is for us to fathom, women haven't always had these choices. They were fought for by feminists. The choice of who (or whether or how) to marry was fought for by feminists. Even the choice as to whether or not one would be a handfast spouse is feminist. So, before feminism, you could well be forcibly handfasted to someone you didn't choose, who was abusive or neglectful. Women were, essentially, slaves.

Self-identified feminists are why maternity leave exists! And lactivism is a feminist movement. The home-birthing / free-birthing movements are feminist! The large portion of youth-rights advocacy has been done by feminists, or other women who have (wittingly or not) benefitted from their efforts in policy. Granted, not every person involved in these movements identify as feminists, but these movements exist and will continue to exist because of the feminism's existence. The concept that women can give birth by the power of their own bodies is a very feminist concept. Midwives do radically feminist work, even within the framework of patriarchy. Sometimes midwifery is the only sign of feminism within a anti-feminist fascist state.

Without feminists, we'd have no choice but to give birth in male-owned hospitals, by male doctors. Without feminists, we wouldn't be allowed to make any of the choices regarding the care of our children. Public policy would be entirely male-run and families would be male-owned. Feminists didn't just fight long and hard for the *right to vote*. In doing so, they changed policy to have a concern for the respect of mothers. They fought long and hard to be able to participate in family choices. Until feminism, women were property and had no right to any financial means, even in case of emergency or the death of their spouse. Until feminism, women were not legally allowed to protect their children without the consent of their husbands or male law-makers. Her children were always the property of her husband, to do with as he sees fit. He could send them to boarding schools or orphanages, and often did. He could abuse them or discipline them as harshly as he wanted. Single mothers or widowed mothers were completely ostracized. I have the right, under law, to have a baby the way I know is right (as a SMBC) only because feminists (female and male) fought for that right. And "boy", am I glad!

It was feminism that changed this, which is why I'm absolutely terrified that so many mothers are anti-feminism.

Feminism is not about forcing mothers to join the work-force. It's about recognizing them as equals and capable of making their own decisions about what is right for them, in the context of their situation. What feminism seems to be, according to some (popular, apparently) sources and what it actually is and has done for mothers are two very different things. Feminism is not anti-male/anti-men or anti mother/father. Feminism is pro-family, and recognizes the mother as central to, or at least an equal in, that family. Not to mention society at large.

*off soap box*







sorry.

ANYWAYS... Pass the bean dip, and ... Has anyone been thinking of names lately??? I've been tooling with the following:

Enda Grey

Ruby Wren

Olive Ainsley

Asa Esme

Glenn Hart

Esme Tate

Adoh Grey

Ella Ashen Gray

Rainer Hart

Mabel Gray

Maisa Lynn

Esa Nodd

... what do you think?

PEACE AND JUSTICE!


----------



## Azadehhast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bliss313*
> 
> The not-grandparents-yet in my situation are at opposite ends of the spectrum. My MIL has told me she is so excited for us to have kids, to come stay with us the last few weeks of the pregnancy so she can be here for the birth (yikes!!), and she is the one with the infamous box (full of mysterious things...). My parents, however, are hippies that didn't have kids until they were in their late 30's, so I'm expecting some kind of shock/confused reaction from them. However, the hippie side hopefully will be super helpful in counteracting my MIL, who is totally mainstream with baby care and pregnancy. I am expecting some full-on family drama when homebirth (gasp!), attachment parenting, breastfeeding on demand (in public?! with breasts?! unthinkable!), cosleeping, and DO NOT FEED MY CHILD JUNK come into the picture. My sister-in-law scheduled her induction to 'fit their schedule' because the baby was 2 days late. I am the silent observer, taking notes for the future. Sigh.


Me too! My MIL has been visiting, honestly, too much lately, and she's always talking about how she's going to take our child to Seattle, and do this and that with it, and I'm thinking, you're going to TAKE MY BABY???? To ANOTHER COUNTRY?? I DON'T THINK SO! (And then I remind myself to calm down--it doesn't even exist yet!) I'm planning to UC, and I'm already anticipating my MIL freaking out.

Yup, damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't--everyone's always got an opinion about your life. I've got just as many about theirs. So I guess we all just have to be courageous and claim our own choices.

Please share the deodorant recipe!


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## Azadehhast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *habitat*
> 
> Self-identified feminists are why maternity leave exists! And lactivism is a feminist movement. The home-birthing / free-birthing movements are feminist! The large portion of youth-rights advocacy has been done by feminists, or other women who have (wittingly or not) benefitted from their efforts in policy. Granted, not every person involved in these movements identify as feminists, but these movements exist and will continue to exist because of the feminism's existence. The concept that women can give birth by the power of their own bodies is a very feminist concept. Midwives do radically feminist work, even within the framework of patriarchy. Sometimes midwifery is the only sign of feminism within a anti-feminist fascist state.
> 
> Without feminists, we'd have no choice but to give birth in male-owned hospitals, by male doctors. Without feminists, we wouldn't be allowed to make any of the choices regarding the care of our children. Public policy would be entirely male-run and families would be male-owned. Feminists didn't just fight long and hard for the *right to vote*. In doing so, they changed policy to have a concern for the respect of mothers. They fought long and hard to be able to participate in family choices. Until feminism, women were property and had no right to any financial means, even in case of emergency or the death of their spouse. Until feminism, women were not legally allowed to protect their children without the consent of their husbands or male law-makers. Her children were always the property of her husband, to do with as he sees fit. He could send them to boarding schools or orphanages, and often did. He could abuse them or discipline them as harshly as he wanted. Single mothers or widowed mothers were completely ostracized. I have the right, under law, to have a baby the way I know is right (as a SMBC) only because feminists (female and male) fought for that right. And "boy", am I glad!
> 
> It was feminism that changed this, which is why I'm absolutely terrified that so many mothers are anti-feminism.
> 
> Feminism is not about forcing mothers to join the work-force. It's about recognizing them as equals and capable of making their own decisions about what is right for them, in the context of their situation. What feminism seems to be, according to some (popular, apparently) sources and what it actually is and has done for mothers are two very different things. Feminism is not anti-male/anti-men or anti mother/father. Feminism is pro-family, and recognizes the mother as central to, or at least an equal in, that family. Not to mention society at large.










Yes yes yes!

Also, these names sound like 1940s movie star names! Love 'em!


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## oiseau

The deodorant recipe is super easy: 1T unrefined shea butter, 1T coconut oil, 1T baking soda, 1T cornstarch plus a few drops of essential oil (I do tea tree and lavender). I recently discovered that you can get the unrefined shea butter from Amazon (my previous stock came from a guy selling it out of a giant nut shell/seed pod thing at a street fair) and the rest of the ingredients can be found at pretty much any grocery store. I just smash all the ingredients together with a fork until well blended.

I think the label "feminist" is pretty misunderstood and misused. I like to simply think of it as someone who thinks women have equal rights as men. It seems like the word has acquired so many other (sometimes negative) connotations in general use.


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## Azadehhast

Quil is a great boy name--because you're right, boys are hard.

I've been thinking of names like Nadia, Sasha, and Shirin (Farsi for "sweet") for girls, and hippy-dippy names like Cedar, Leaf (my friend's boy's name), and River for boys. There just aren't many creative boys names, ones that haven't been used billions of times.


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## habitat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oiseau*
> 
> I like those names! Ruby, Wren and Olive are my favorite ones that show up on your list! habitat...do you find it easier to come up with girl names than boy names? I'm gonna be so stumped if/when I have a boy baby that requires a name. I realized last week that the name Quil, like NPR's correspondant Quil Lawrence is a pretty cool boy name. I really like Leo but it's 1. maybe too popular and 2. goes kinda bad with the last name my babies will get. We'll see.


*Oiseau*, thanks! Actually, I'm trying to shoot for androgynous ("unisex") names, but I do really delight in "girl" names, so a few of them go onto my list (I'm very sneaky







). I definitely can commiserate on the frustrating challenge that is "boy names". They tend to be no-frills and no-whimsy, because, well, god forbid! Pretty sad. My business is called Run, Tallulah. Tallulah is one of my all-time favorite names and I just had to use it, but I don't want my baby's name to be too gendered, so I gave it to my consulting service! I'm sick of feeling like if I have to name a boy, I'd want a "good, strong name"... you know, to shape the kind of all-weather, no-tears soldier I expect him to be (insert sarcastic tone and body language)! If faced with naming a male baby, there's a good chance-in-heck that the name will be on the more "feminine" side of things than one might expect, which I sure think never hurt anyone... but, after all, I am a feminist.

Here are the names on the list that I consider androgynous:

Wren

Olive

Ainsley

Asa

Glenn

Hart

Tate

Adoh

Grey / Gray

Ashen

Rainer

Hart

Lynn

Esa

Nodd

I would feel good using any of those names for whatever sex.

I also really love Quil! What a great name! It reminds me of Quinn, which I also love, but like many good names, it's been stolen by TV (the elder normy sister on MTV's Daria. *Sigh*. That show saved me).

*Azadehhast*, my favorites of yours are Sasha and River. Love! I have a weakness for the name River. But I do know a few boys with that name that are kind of close to me, so no Run, River for me. I really love "hippy-dippy names"!! My mother and grandmother love to tell the tale of my distant cousins, named Marigold, Violet, Sweet Pea, Glad Today and Sunshine. They always mention it when I talk about having a baby, because they love to connect me with some kind of romantic hippy-dom and are very pleased to point out that I have so much in common with these people (who are also supposedly kind of "crazy" and "dirty"). The sixties are so not my era, as names go, but I do love nature names like Fern, River, Raven and Lily. I may even adore Violet, but that's totally a secret. Don't tell my mom.


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## oiseau

.


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## stardogs

oiseau I do the same thing with pet names! Our current critters are 3.14159 (aka Pi, our cat), and Ziva, Kestrel, and Aerten for the dogs. 

I have a file on my computer for baby names! DH wants to avoid "hippy-dippy" (looove that phrase lol) names, so that does constrain me a bit, and he's very much into more traditional boys' names, but I think I might get him to flex some if I can find masculine, yet more unusual names.

*BOY*

Justin

Forrest

Andrew

Tyler

Jaren

Caden

Ethan

Garrett

Blake

Orion

Noah

Malcolm

Cyrus

Ryan

*GIRL*

Kya Lyn

Kiara Esther

Grace

Lyra

Gwen

Calla

Kaia

Leia

Wren

Adria

Fiona

*BOTH*

Mika/Mikah/Micah

Tru


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## Azadehhast

How do you say "Adoh"? I'm intrigued!


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## habitat

'a-doh - Accent on A like apple, then doh, like dough.

Stardogs, great names! I like Blake and Jarren and Calla and Grace the best! Miley Cyrus just bugs me too much to ever consider the name Cyrus, though I really would love it otherwise.


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## oiseau

.


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## KaylaBeanie

Wow, long time no see ladies! I've been enthralled with the conversation at hand, about it being "weird" according to society to actively plan years in advance for children. I actually just posted on Facebook about this the other day. For some reason, it's considered bad in our society to actively look forward to parenting and if, god forbid, you say something like "I can't wait to someday have children" people instantly assume you're looking for a guy to latch onto NOW to reproduce with. I would bet that there are also guys out there who look forward to marriage and children, but they're taught even moreso to never bring it up. The way I see it, I'm almost 22 years old. Now, anthropologists have found **** sapien skeletons dating back 200,000 years and it's only been the past 50 years where you don't get married (or partnered back in the stone ages) between ages 15-20. Biologically speaking, I should have a partner and at least one child by now. Of course my body is screaming at me every time I see a baby, of course it's something that occupies my mind frequently...that's nature doing it's job!

Plus, why should we be ashamed by planning? Choosing to bring a child into the world is a huge decision, and the fact that so many people take it lightly is awful. I want to be as prepared as humanly possible long before having kids. I want to know everything about birth, caring for an infant, disciplining a toddler, interacting with a child that I can before experiencing it. I know that actually having a child will blow my mind and there is no way I can imagine what it feels like, but at least I'll be partially armed. Plus, I always think how great my pregnancies will be. I won't have to research things, because I've already done the research. I know I'll homebirth, and if a legitimate emergency arises I know I'll transfer for a c-section and then HBAC with future kids. I know I'll nurse 2+ years, and I'll network ahead of time to make sure I have support and donor milk if any issues arrive. I know I won't circumcise, I know I'll cloth diaper, I know I won't vax for at least two years (if ever), I know I'll co-sleep, the list goes on. I think that's awesome! I will get to fully experience my pregnancy with no stresses or last minute research, and that makes me very happy because I think only having nine months to research everything parent-related would be stressful.

As for feminism, I hate that it's so misconstrued. I am (like all women should be) a staunch feminist. I believe men and women should have equal opportunities to choose their life path. I want to see a world where dads stay home with their kids shame-free and take their wife's last name while the wife has a high power career, a world where men and women are paid equally and gender stereotypes are gone. Wanting to be a mother doesn't make me less of a feminist. To be honest, if I found my DP tomorrow, I'd marry him right after my college graduation, immediately start a family and then start midwifery school once my kids were in school. To me, that would be an amazing life. At the end of my life, am I really going to wish I'd had a high-power job and more money? Or will I rejoice at the time I spent raising my kids, dancing in the kitchen with my husband, catching babies for my fellow women? It's not hard to decide.


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## calpurnia7

Hello All,

In a couple of months (after I participate in a 21-mile race), I will be going off of the NuvaRing and starting to try for a baby. Because of the ridiculous number of nieces and nephews we have, both of us know that babies truly, drastically, wonderfully, but frighteningly change your life. I'm trying to prepare us both. Not a single person in our immediate family has had a lick of trouble getting pregnant, so while I'm realistic and know it could take a while, we want to be ready for a bun to start baking right away! There's a lot I need to research, a lot that I don't know. For example, when I went in for my check-in with the gyno, she said that you should not stop preventing pregnancy until you've been off of hormonal contraceptives for two months because the lining of your uterus might be too thin to successfully carry a baby to term.

So here's what I'm wondering:

-How do you know if attachment parenting is right for you? My husband and I really love our sleep and have trouble sharing the bed with our pets - while the family bed makes sense through the first at least year, how is it done? I need my space. I also need my privacy with my hubby you know, for the things that will bring said child in the first place. Is that crazy and selfish?

-I hear that breastfeeding hurts. I've run marathons so I think I can hack it, but I have friends with unbelievable pain tolerances who couldn't hack it. How does one push through the difficult part and successfully nurse? Not nursing is not an option. The baby needs milk, sorry not giving my baby some powdered stuff that you reconstitute in water. I wouldn't drink that, I don't expect my baby to. I do have several friends who have successfully nursed and said that it didn't hurt that bad.

-Home birth, birthing center, or hospital? The hospitals where I live are very tolerant of patients' wants and needs, but there are several new birthing centers that are supposed to be state of the art. I love the idea of being in a luxurious suite with a bed that my husband can actually lay in and sleep with me. Should I want to go to a doctor during pregnancy? I'm a big fan of a birthing center and having a midwife, but I don't know anyone who hasn't had their baby in a hospital.

-Apparently I should start taking prenatals. I refuse to get a prescription because that is ridic. Any recommendations?

-What else should I be wondering?


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## oiseau

.


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## monkeyscience

*Calpurnia* - Random collection of (potential) answers to your questions:

-Co-sleeping - I am thinking I might want to go side-car crib style - the baby is sort of in bed with you, sort of not. Something like this.

-Breastfeeding - my understanding is that it's not supposed to hurt too much if you/your babe are doing it right. So if it hurts, you should be getting some help from a lactation consultant.

-I have gone the rounds with myself on hospital/birth center/homebirth, and have come a long way from where I used to be. I think the most important thing is that you birth somewhere *you* feel safe. Feeling scared because of your surroundings can mess up your ability to labor. Different people feel safe in different places. I would definitely visit the potential birthing locations and go with the one that *feels* right to you.

-Vitamins: I take Just Once Prenatal One vitamins, but I have no real reason for saying they're any better/worse than anything else. I haven't tried anything else. Though now that we're about to ramp up the TTC, I'm thinking I should get some fish oil from somewhere.

As far as me... we will be starting fertility treatments in about 2 weeks. Fingers crossed it works the first time. We originally thought we could only afford one medicated cycle for now, but since I went to the dentist today and (surprisingly) didn't have any cavities, maybe we could afford two rounds?


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## calpurnia7

monkeyscience, thanks for the advice! good luck with your treatments, i'll definitely keep my fingers crossed for you.


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## Azadehhast

Oh, all my happy wishes to you, monkeyscience, with TTC and fertility treatments!

Oiseau, your living situation sounds completely nuts! Hopefully it's resolved soon.

Mamas, it would seem that the baby-bearing goddesses have shined upon me. (Hopefully it's not tempting fate to say so!) I really thought, no way could it happen this cycle, since I had my IUD removed two days before ovulation. But alas! I'm pretty sure I'm pregnant, and I'm ever so anxiously waiting to test. Ever so anxiously.

Are any of you car-free, and planning to remain so once you've got little ones? We are now, and will probably be for the first while, and MIL thinks it's an impossible choice. We bicycle, walk, and bus. She says, you don't want to deal with a vomiting baby on your bicycle--and I'm thinking, isn't that LOTS easier than in a car? Once there's vomit on the seats, they smell FOREVER! But a hose will quickly clean off a bicycle seat.


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## Azadehhast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Azadehhast*
> 
> Mamas, it would seem that the baby-bearing goddesses have shined upon me. (Hopefully it's not tempting fate to say so!) I really thought, no way could it happen this cycle, since I had my IUD removed two days before ovulation. But alas! I'm pretty sure I'm pregnant, and I'm ever so anxiously waiting to test. Ever so anxiously.


Yes! BFP BFP BFP!!!


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## oiseau

Congrats!!! YAY!!!


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## monkeyscience

Awesome!! Sprinkle some baby dust on me, please.


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## KaylaBeanie

Ladies, I'm thinking of getting my IUD taken out and when I do enter a relationship, relying on condoms and NFP. Thoughts? My periods are brutal and I'm so sick of it. Plus, I do worry it might affect my fertility. Does anyone here chart (either TTC or TTA)?


----------



## oiseau

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KaylaBeanie*
> 
> Ladies, I'm thinking of getting my IUD taken out and when I do enter a relationship, relying on condoms and NFP. Thoughts? My periods are brutal and I'm so sick of it. Plus, I do worry it might affect my fertility. Does anyone here chart (either TTC or TTA)?


Hey Kayla-I used to chart and I still rely somewhat on fertility signs + condoms. I think it's a great way to go because it doesn't involve anything artificial entering my body (hormone or an IUD). I tried the pill for awhile several years ago and it ended up being a bad idea for me (made my depression worse) so I've stayed away from hormonal birth control since then.

I got a copy of Taking Charge of Your Fertility a few years ago and I think it should be required reading for all women (and probably all men too....at least the ones having sex with women!). I was amazed how much I learned about my body that I didn't know. I honestly felt somewhat cheated and angry that I was in my mid-20's before I learned some pretty basic stuff about my fertility. I like charting and found it to be pretty hassle-free. I don't know that I ever got too skilled at interpreting my chart, but there are tons of ladies on MDC and other sites who would have gladly helped had I asked. I stopped charting after a prolonged illness a couple years ago when I was spiking fevers all the time which made my charts pretty useless. I got lazy after I got better and never picked it back up and I've been sick off and on since then and the fevers just mess things up too much. (That and I have insomnia which means I can almost never reliably wake up at the same time every morning after a guaranteed 3 hrs of sleep to get accurate temps).

All that having been said, there's more to charting than just temps, so when I say I loosely chart, I mean that I pay attention to the other fertility signs (mainly cervical mucous and position), so I have a pretty good idea what my body is doing. I keep meaning to try to get back in the habit of temping as well at some point before TTC...

I'd say give it a try!


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## monkeyscience

I do chart (at least the temperature part), and am TTC, but since I have PCOS, all charting has established for me is that I haven't ovulated in well over a year.







So I don't really use it for timing sex one way or the other. I'm starting ovulation induction today, though, so I do plan to try to track my other fertility signs more, as well, since I think they might actually change!

I do know quite a few people who swear by NFP, but I also know people with surprise NFP babies, so I think that you have to be either a.) super strict with the rules (and know them well), or b.) prepared to take a chance with having a baby.

Of course, there's also the whole issue of STIs, so until you are sure that that isn't an issue with a new partner, I would think you'd want to use condoms all the time, anyway. Just my







.


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## Cyllya

Three of my great-aunts, whom no one around here as seen in at least 20 years, came down to visit this week. So my mom threw a sort of family reunion. I realized that almost all of my grandmother's grandchildren (I don't know how many there are, but she has six kids, so it's a lot) have children. I think my and my younger cousins-turned-siblings, who are still 13 and 14, are the only exceptions. She's even a great-great-grandmother recently, since my cousin's daughter had a kid. I've been struggling with feeling "behind" due to not having had kids and other life milestones yet, and that drove the feeling in a little harder. :/ Granted, most of the ones who had kids had them by accident before turning 18, so I shouldn't feel bad....

There were some parenting arguments going on, but I didn't hear anybody arguing for anything I'd agree with. 

Quote:


> Wow, long time no see ladies! I've been enthralled with the conversation at hand, about it being "weird" according to society to actively plan years in advance for children. I actually just posted on Facebook about this the other day. For some reason, it's considered bad in our society to actively look forward to parenting and if, god forbid, you say something like "I can't wait to someday have children" people instantly assume you're looking for a guy to latch onto NOW to reproduce with. I would bet that there are also guys out there who look forward to marriage and children, but they're taught even moreso to never bring it up. The way I see it, I'm almost 22 years old. Now, anthropologists have found **** sapien skeletons dating back 200,000 years and it's only been the past 50 years where you don't get married (or partnered back in the stone ages) *between ages 15-20*. Biologically speaking, I should have a partner and at least one child by now. Of course my body is screaming at me every time I see a baby, of course it's something that occupies my mind frequently...that's nature doing it's job!


To make that even more extreme, in recent centuries the age of sexual maturity has been getting younger and younger, so all else being equal, we'd be having kids younger.

Off hand, I know of one culture (Mongolian Empire) where the typical marriage age was 12. I wonder how many of them were physically capable of bearing children at that age. Maybe they were married so young so that they could get used to adult life before having a child?

Quote:


> So here's what I'm wondering:
> 
> -How do you know if attachment parenting is right for you? My husband and I really love our sleep and have trouble sharing the bed with our pets - while the family bed makes sense through the first at least year, how is it done? I need my space. I also need my privacy with my hubby you know, for the things that will bring said child in the first place. Is that crazy and selfish?


Nighttime parenting is a troubling one for me. I feel like, regardless of where the baby is sleeping, if it wakes up and cries/fusses, you should go to it and try to comfort it. It just feels wrong not to (and at some point it becomes unhealthy not to). But with that parent philosophy, how are you ever supposed to have sex?!

I tend to do a lot of tossing and turning before I can sleep, so I feel like having the baby on the bed with me won't be a good idea. But then I keep imagining a scenario where I'm super tired but the baby reeeeaaaally wants to be held, and the obvious solution to that is to snuggle the baby while I sleep (in a bed). So maybe I should just be prepared for five possible sleeping arrangements, lol.

Quote:


> I guess I can take all the mothering practice I can get...I'm sure there must be some shared experience between mothering a human baby and a squirrel baby or an opossum baby!


Ooh, I thought of one: cleaning up poo! And other such things! The more poop/pee/vomit/blood/etc you clean up now, the less it'll bother you later!


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## oiseau

Regarding cultures with young marriage/child-bearing trends, I wonder how much of that could be related to a shorter life span in general. Like, if you're only going to live to the age of 40 or 50, would that help drive a trend to get married and have kids at an earlier age. (Or, could having kids at a younger age cause shorter life spans??)

Cyllya- On my mom's side of the family, my brother and I are the only grandkids who haven't had kids of our own yet. My cousins are about the same age as my brother and I and between the 3 of them, they have 10 babies(!). The first of the 10 great-grandkids was born when my cousin (his mom) and I were both 17. I was so sad the day he was born because I knew that even though, statistically, we'd have both been teen moms, I could probably have done a much better job raising him (that is, without drinking, drugs, lots of men in and out of his life, etc.). I sometimes feel like I'm way behind in the baby-making game, but I'm glad to have graduated high school and college and I will be able to provide a relatively stable home for my kids.

The other side of the family (my dad's side) has no great-grandkids yet and it looks like it'll be a pretty close tie between my brother and I for producing the first one.

As for the squirrel mothering, at least human babies don't need their moms to lick their genitals to be able to pee/poo like baby squirrels do!!


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## oiseau

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *calpurnia7*
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> In a couple of months (after I participate in a 21-mile race), I will be going off of the NuvaRing and starting to try for a baby. Because of the ridiculous number of nieces and nephews we have, both of us know that babies truly, drastically, wonderfully, but frighteningly change your life. I'm trying to prepare us both. Not a single person in our immediate family has had a lick of trouble getting pregnant, so while I'm realistic and know it could take a while, we want to be ready for a bun to start baking right away! There's a lot I need to research, a lot that I don't know. For example, when I went in for my check-in with the gyno, she said that you should not stop preventing pregnancy until you've been off of hormonal contraceptives for two months because the lining of your uterus might be too thin to successfully carry a baby to term.
> 
> So here's what I'm wondering:
> 
> -How do you know if attachment parenting is right for you? My husband and I really love our sleep and have trouble sharing the bed with our pets - while the family bed makes sense through the first at least year, how is it done? I need my space. I also need my privacy with my hubby you know, for the things that will bring said child in the first place. Is that crazy and selfish?
> 
> -I hear that breastfeeding hurts. I've run marathons so I think I can hack it, but I have friends with unbelievable pain tolerances who couldn't hack it. How does one push through the difficult part and successfully nurse? Not nursing is not an option. The baby needs milk, sorry not giving my baby some powdered stuff that you reconstitute in water. I wouldn't drink that, I don't expect my baby to. I do have several friends who have successfully nursed and said that it didn't hurt that bad.
> 
> -Home birth, birthing center, or hospital? The hospitals where I live are very tolerant of patients' wants and needs, but there are several new birthing centers that are supposed to be state of the art. I love the idea of being in a luxurious suite with a bed that my husband can actually lay in and sleep with me. Should I want to go to a doctor during pregnancy? I'm a big fan of a birthing center and having a midwife, but I don't know anyone who hasn't had their baby in a hospital.
> 
> -Apparently I should start taking prenatals. I refuse to get a prescription because that is ridic. Any recommendations?
> 
> -What else should I be wondering?


Hey Calpurnia-I never had a chance to respond to your questions, so I thought I'd answer them to the best of my ability since I have time today!

1. I am of the feeling that you need to follow your gut when it comes to parenting. I think there are a lot of different philosophies out there with good and bad things about them and you just have to pick and choose what is the best fit for your particular family. So for example, even though AP is big on co-sleeping, if you know that you won't be able to sleep with a baby in your bed, find a solution that works best for you...maybe a crib side-carred to the bed or a co-sleeper/bassinet in the room, where your baby is close, but not right there with you in the bed. I don't think it's crazy or selfish!! You just have to do what is best for YOUR family!

2. Of course I have no experience, but from what I've read, in general, it seems like if it hurts, you or the baby is doing something wrong and in that case, I'd call in the experts (lactation consultants) to try to fix the problem. I also wonder though, if some pain/discomfort is inevitable, especially in the beginning. I'm with you though, not nursing is not an option (unless is proves physically impossible due to my prior cancer treatment). I'm just planning to go into it prepared to do whatever I have to to nurse my babies (I've read some stories about crazy stuff moms have nursed through and I'm just telling myself that if they can do it, there's no reason I can't do it too). And if it's just not possible, I'd turn to milk-share/milk banks before I went to formula.

3. Again, find what's the best fit for you and your husband. Go with your gut...If you'd feel best in a hospital, especially if there are good ones near you, go for it. If homebirth is what you really want, then go for that. A birth center/midwife would also be a good happy medium. I think there's a lot of judgement/shaming towards new parents and that really sucks. No one should be made to feel bad for making the best choices for themselves and their families.

4. I don't have a good answer for the prenatal question. I did look into whole food based vitamins at one time, but I can't remember what I came up with. I would ask over in the TTC forum and see what the ladies there have to say! I just know that whole food based vitamins are better than your typical drugstore vitamins. I agree that an rx would be ridiculous though!!

Best wishes and welcome to the NMY tribe!!


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## knittinanny

Hi everyone! It's been a long long while since I've been around here. A crazy lot of things happened in my life (separated from my partner of 13 years, did lots and lots of yoga and meditating and recovered from the trauma of separation and all that comes with it







, moved to a new house with brand-new housemates, started a PhD, met a lovely gentleman







, started a baking business, helped two different friends move to different countries, moved house again...). I was spending an unhealthy amount of time on MDC during the demise of my previous relationship imagining my life as I wanted it rather than getting off the internet and making my Happy Life happen. I'm feeling like I want to be around here some now that things are a lot better in my life, but not as much as before.

All of the baby-talk has been put off indefinitely - I've been with the Lovely Gentleman for about 9 months, and we're really, really not in a place to be talking about future children yet. He's known me for a long time so knows that I was about to start TTC when ex-DP and I split up, and he knows that having a family is important to me (as it is to him as well). I have a lot going on with work, school, and the bakery, and he's in the midst of doing a lot of work to deal with lingering feelings around his mother's death some time ago and to learn how to live healthily with his OCD and depression. If something should happen and I fell pregnant, we'd deal with it, but as much as I want a family I know that right now isn't the time. We're both taking it slow, and it feels a lot healthier for me.

I feel like such a different person than I was when I was spending lots of time on MDC before - in a good way! Glad some of y'all are still around these parts!


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## monkeyscience

Wow... PhD and bakery?? That is a lot! (Not to mention new relationship!) What is your PhD in?


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## KaylaBeanie

I've noticed the same thing...when I'm bored with life, or unhappy, I throw myself into daydreaming about my "perfect" life. No harm in it, but it's easy to get in and stay bored/unhappy for a long time, especially when life doesn't end up how you think it "should" be!

I always thought I'd get married young, have a big family. Thankfully, I've grown and my life has changed. Even if I met the love of my life tomorrow, I couldn't get married until I finish school, which is when Im 26-27. I've decided for a variety of reasons (financial partly, mostly moral) that I'll only have two kids and, assuming I have no issues TTC, they'll be 2.5ish years apart so that I can get them into school and go back to work without taking 10+ years off. Therefore, I feel like it's more beneficial to daydream about having my kids in my early 30's so that I have the best of both worlds; freedom to travel the world in my 20's while still not being an "old" mom. Of course, life happens how it happens, but I no longer mourn the loss of my young, AP mom dreams. I'll just be an awesome, fashionable, worldly 30-something AP mama 

Ladies, assuming all goes well, I will be living in Wales for the 2012-2013 school year!!! Eep, so excited. Here's hoping my future DH is there...I love accents, and I am dying to get dual citizenship in the UK. I'm a city gal, and while most people dream of LA or NYC, I daydream about London.

Also, I have found THE name for my firstborn daughter. I always knew I wanted to name my first DD Isabel Dian, after my great-grandma. However, Twilight happened and I never found a name that I felt all warm and fuzzy about, until I was rereading "A Great and Terrible Beauty" while the royal wedding was going on. Philippa Dian, Pippa for short. LOVE. Part of me wants a baby now solely to use that name, haha.


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## knittinanny

Kayla, what will you be doing in Wales? If you make it into London I'd be happy to take you for a pint/tea! Where will you be studying?

Monkey - the PhD is in American Studies. I'm writing about cohabitative religious communities in post-suburban America.


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## monkeyscience

Wow... that is... I don't have the right word. But it sounds interesting. Could you give some examples of what you're talking about? I'm curious!!

Also, I totally feel you on the living vicariously through MDC. I spent a ton of time here in my last year or so of university, when I was painfully single and feeling like it would never end. I only really came back after I got married and TTC became real.


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## KaylaBeanie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *knittinanny*
> 
> Kayla, what will you be doing in Wales? If you make it into London I'd be happy to take you for a pint/tea! Where will you be studying?
> 
> Monkey - the PhD is in American Studies. I'm writing about cohabitative religious communities in post-suburban America.


I'm planning on spending as much time in London as possible, so that would be fantastic! I'll be in Aberystwyth. I cannot wait! I was born in the wrong country, it feels like heading home


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## aquarius aspiring

Hi, everyone. Resident drifter checking in.

Is anyone here a little on the fence about having kids? I go back and forth about every six months. Right now, I'm in kid mode. Not necessarily baby crazy, but more ready to start having kids than I have been before. That seems to be my pattern. Every time the pendulum swings back towards me wanting kids, I feel a little more ready to have a baby.

Thank you for "listening".


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## KaylaBeanie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aquarius aspiring*
> 
> Hi, everyone. Resident drifter checking in.
> 
> Is anyone here a little on the fence about having kids? I go back and forth about every six months. Right now, I'm in kid mode. Not necessarily baby crazy, but more ready to start having kids than I have been before. That seems to be my pattern. Every time the pendulum swings back towards me wanting kids, I feel a little more ready to have a baby.
> 
> My husband, on the other hand, is almost neutral about having kids and he says he's not ready anyway. I can completely understand that, but what I don't get is that he never wants to talk about a future family. I always have to bring the topic up first. I don't want to be annoying and talk about it all the time like I did when we were dating. I think about things like living on one income when we do have a baby and I'd want to be a SAHM. He doesn't think that far ahead. He likes to take things one at a time. I know I have to be patient and we will start TTC in a few years, but I get frustrated sometimes.
> 
> What's got me thinking about kids even more than usual is my co-worker who is six months pregnant. She wants to return to work after taking maternity leave, which I can totally see her doing. She's not the type to be a SAHM. I think about what I would do and I know that if my husband made what her husband makes, I'd be a SAHM in a heartbeat. Yesterday, I heard her talking to her mom on the phone about her pregnancy and I became so jealous that she's pregnant and sad that I'm not. It didn't help that I read an article the other day about being infertile at the age of 29 (my age!).
> 
> Thank you for "listening".


Absolutely. Lately I'm so busy that I barely have time to shower, so kids have been far from my mind. However, I'm also young and single, so take what I say with a grain of salt


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## Dacks

*-Where do you want to live/where do you live?*

I'm in Florida, but ideally would like to live in Colorado, the PNW, or back home in Missouri.

*-How many kiddos do you want, and does anyone plan to adopt?*
I would like to have one biological and then adopt one or two.

**Do you have any hobbies?**
Laziness? Ok, that isn't a hobby. I've been kayaking lately. I like to read but don't very often unless it is a textbook.

**What do you do as a job?*
I'm a graduate student in the physical sciences, but I really reallly need a summer job. I spend lots of unpaid time looking for planets with a telescope.

**Any non-crunchy confessions?**
I can't find a decent, well fit pair of pants at a reasonable price that isn't a pair of denim jeans made in China.

*1. Do you have any pets? If so, what kind and what are their names? *

I have a parrot named Rigel.

*2. Do you have anything stashed away for your future kids? (oh-so-cute outfit you couldn't not buy? Special cradle that's been in the family forever?*
I have been stocking up a small travel trunk with baby clothes, books, and blankets. Someday, baby, someday.

*3. Favorite food?*

Chocolate! Sushi! Thai! Curry! ZOMG I'm so hungry!

*4. What brought you to MDC?*
My Mom keeps asking for a grandbaby. I'm not joking, she has started asking every time we talk. It is getting to me because I do want a kid, and I'm tired of having to tell her "In a few more years" and "When I graduate." It breaks my heart and hers.

*5. Random fact about yourself*

Nerd. Huge. Geeky. Science. Fiction. Nerd.


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## monkeyscience

Welcome, Dacks! (Or should it be Dax... my all-time favorite Trek character?







)

Sorry your mom is bugging you - my mom started making random comments about grandbabies when I was about 19 or 20. She claims this never happened, but it did. She talked about having grandbabies when none of her kids were married (most were high school aged or younger!), or even in serious relationships. We reminded her she should probably quit wishing for that, since she'd be really upset if any of us had children outside of marriage. I do love my mom, though. And now my brother and his wife have a baby, there's no pressure on me to have a baby. Plus my mom is very aware of our fertility issues and the fact that we're trying, but failing, so that helps.

Any idea how much longer it will be till you graduate? And doesn't the humidity/clouds in Florida mess with your telescope search? Along with the light pollution? Sorry, I know just enough about telescopes to probably sound like a complete moron to some who really knows about them! I used to be a huge space nerd, but now I'm more of a biology nerd.


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## Dacks

I am quite a nerd









The humidity and cloud cover messes with at least half of the nights I am scheduled! It is a huge frustration. I'm scheduled for the next 10 days and the forecast says "Ha! Yeah right!" I'm actually not familiar with telescopes other than the one here, since I never had the money for one as a kid. I'm not a real deal astronomer, but a physicist who uses astronomy tools when it suits me and likes to look at pretty astronomy pictures. I'm thinking about a planetary geology program for my PhD.

My Mom knows that I am doing what is best for me, and has said that I need to wait until I am ready. She had me at 14 years old and has never been educated beyond middle school and never had more than a minimum wage job. She understands, but she also wants a grandkid as much as I want a kid. It is hard for both of us, and this only really started in the last few years. I've decided that when I graduate in 2 years with my Masters, that is when I will start. No matter what. I will be 30 then. Life will never be perfect, and so many people have raised wonderful kids with less than I have going for me today.


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## aquarius aspiring

Hi, Dacks!

First of all, welcome! Second of all, we need to go out to lunch together. I love Thai food, sushi, and chocolate! Do you have decent Indian restaurants where you are? We don't.  However, there are a ton of excellent sushi restaurants. Don't know why I'm mentioning that. lol We live about 13 hours from each other. 

Oddly, neither my mother nor my MIL have been asking for grandchildren. They're both really relaxed on when they're getting grandkids. However, my husband did trip the baby alarm with my extended family two Thanksgivings ago. He mentioned something about wanting to find a better job as a stepping stone to starting a family and everyone at the table went nuts. lol

One last thing: Is your parrot named after the alien on Farscape? 

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dacks*
> 
> *1. Do you have any pets? If so, what kind and what are their names? *
> 
> I have a parrot named Rigel.
> 
> *3. Favorite food?*
> 
> Chocolate! Sushi! Thai! Curry! ZOMG I'm so hungry!


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## Dacks

Oh man, you ladies have figured me out too quickly! Yep, Rigel the Bird was named after our lovable Dominar. And also yes, I am within walking distance of the only decent Indian place in town. It is kind of fancy, while my apartment is definitely not high-class. Hey, you've got to have your priorities! I almost broke down and went for dinner tonight, but I'm watching my budget.

Oh gosh, I bet he didn't realize until it was too late. You must have been awkwardly explaining it for the rest of the month!


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## KaylaBeanie

My mother has informed me that this is how my life will go, since I can't get married or I'll lose my scholarship...

August 2011: Move to Alabama for school, find "the one"

August 2013: Get engaged and immediately get pregnant

December 2013: Graduate with undergraduate degree

After that, stretch master's degree from 2 years to 3 years to be home with baby

I told her it's nice to see that she's taken all the guesswork out of it.


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## Dacks

KaylaBeanie, that sounds like a wild ride! Good of her to figure all that out for you.

In other news, I am mildly devastated that I will be able to move from my cruddy apartment (but the Indian food! and the pizza place! and the farmer's market!) to a house much nicer, cheaper, and closer to school. I'm worried about how my bird will tolerate another move so soon (6 months since our cross-country adventure). I also worry that I won't be able to keep the new roomate's cat out of my room and away from my birdie. I've lost so many birds to cats and dogs.


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## KaylaBeanie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dacks*
> 
> KaylaBeanie, that sounds like a wild ride! Good of her to figure all that out for you.
> 
> In other news, I am mildly devastated that I will be able to move from my cruddy apartment (but the Indian food! and the pizza place! and the farmer's market!) to a house much nicer, cheaper, and closer to school. I'm worried about how my bird will tolerate another move so soon (6 months since our cross-country adventure). I also worry that I won't be able to keep the new roomate's cat out of my room and away from my birdie. I've lost so many birds to cats and dogs.


Haha, I know! With the life she has planned out for me, I won't even have time to breathe









I hope things work out well with your bird! I've done MANY cross-country moves with animals and it SUCKS. My poor cat is still scared of the car and our last one was two years ago.

What else is shakin' in life ladies?! Things are good here, just more of the same. My nanny kid is doing well, but MAN can that kid cop an attitude. I feel so thankful that I get to do a sort of trial-run with this nanny gig, I know that I'll be so much better as a parent someday because of it. For instance, I never thought too much about food; yeah, most of it should be organic, it'll definitely be vegetarian for my kidlets, but some junk in moderation is fine. However, nanny kid is a naturally picky eater who, thanks to "occasional junk" as a small child, will now only eat bad food. It's a wake up call to me, and now I know that it's something I'll be really dilligent about when I do have kids. If they aren't exposed to junk as small kids, they can't become a lunchables-addicted seven year old.

I move in exactly seven weeks and I cannot WAIT! I hate suburban Missouri like nobody's business and can't wait to get involved in a college community.


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## stardogs

Ok you guys will totally understand my current predicament: how to be super happy for a friend who has just announced she's pregnant yet also be a bit sad to see that relationship on the brink of a huge change.

A close friend of mine is about to the end of her first trimester and has just started telling people. I'm so happy for her, but at the same time I know that our friendship will invariably change and that totally bums me out - and it doesn't help that she's now the 25th or 26th person IRL that I know who has had a baby or is currently pregnant in the last 16 months (30th if you count online friends)!

Logically I know DH and I need to wait for a munchkin but part of me is worried that I won't have any friends left to share the experience of being a new mom with when we do have a child; anyone else BTDT?


----------



## aquarius aspiring

Right there with you. Everyone I know either has two or three kids or doesn't want kids at all. By the time DH and I have a kid, my friends will have already BTDT long ago.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stardogs*
> 
> Ok you guys will totally understand my current predicament: how to be super happy for a friend who has just announced she's pregnant yet also be a bit sad to see that relationship on the brink of a huge change.
> 
> A close friend of mine is about to the end of her first trimester and has just started telling people. I'm so happy for her, but at the same time I know that our friendship will invariably change and that totally bums me out - and it doesn't help that she's now the 25th or 26th person IRL that I know who has had a baby or is currently pregnant in the last 16 months (30th if you count online friends)!
> 
> Logically I know DH and I need to wait for a munchkin but part of me is worried that I won't have any friends left to share the experience of being a new mom with when we do have a child; anyone else BTDT?


----------



## aquarius aspiring

*********


----------



## monkeyscience

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *aquarius aspiring*
> 
> I've been bitten by baby rabies HARD in the past couple of weeks.










That is AWESOME. I think that's the best term I've ever heard for it. I'm sorry you're experiencing it, but that's a great title.


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## stardogs

I too love the term baby rabies! I'm not quite in full blown rabies, but I am perhaps affected by a milder form known as baby flu. 

eta: I've been starting my plan of getting super fit by the time we look at having a child; I started Couch to 5K 3 weeks ago, have been trying to get outdoors more (hiking, biking, kayaking, tennis, etc.). Next up will be changing my eating habits - that'll be hard since I have a major sweet tooth and crave carbs frequently. Ideally I'll be able to complete 2 endurance tests with my dogs (12 miles on a bike in 90 minutes with 2 short breaks for each dog), complete an official 5K (maybe a 10K or half marathon?), and be cooking more vs buying premade stuff by the time TTC is on the horizon (likely 3 years from now). Never hurts to get those habits established sooner than later!


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## aquarius aspiring

Haha! Thanks! I thought I had read about baby rabies on here, but I guess not. I'm glad you like it!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *monkeyscience*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is AWESOME. I think that's the best term I've ever heard for it. I'm sorry you're experiencing it, but that's a great title.


----------



## aquarius aspiring

Baby flu works, too! 

Wow, I'm impressed by your fitness goals. My first goal is just to get back on the treadmill at the gym. Well, okay, and start doing yoga and do some more hiking. Baby steps!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stardogs*
> 
> I too love the term baby rabies! I'm not quite in full blown rabies, but I am perhaps affected by a milder form known as baby flu.
> 
> eta: I've been starting my plan of getting super fit by the time we look at having a child; I started Couch to 5K 3 weeks ago, have been trying to get outdoors more (hiking, biking, kayaking, tennis, etc.). Next up will be changing my eating habits - that'll be hard since I have a major sweet tooth and crave carbs frequently. Ideally I'll be able to complete 2 endurance tests with my dogs (12 miles on a bike in 90 minutes with 2 short breaks for each dog), complete an official 5K (maybe a 10K or half marathon?), and be cooking more vs buying premade stuff by the time TTC is on the horizon (likely 3 years from now). Never hurts to get those habits established sooner than later!


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## aquarius aspiring

******************


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## stardogs

OMG it drives me *nuts* when women put more thought/research into buying a new car than having a child! I totally understand where you're coming from!

It was soooo refreshing when my most recent friend to have her child was very educated on everything, refused induction for post dates, fired her OB at 40w1d because she tried to sneak induce her, and ended up having a drug free birth at 41w5d.  I also love discussing babywearing and breastfeeding topics with my BFF who has 2 kids, the youngest is almost 16 months.


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## aquarius aspiring

Your friend and your bff both sound like amazing people. My college roommate had drug-free births with both of her kids, but had to transfer with the last one for post-birth complications. She's in another country, though so I get to talk her ear off over e-mail! She doesn't mind a ton of questions from me.


----------



## stardogs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aquarius aspiring*
> 
> some of the things that she says makes me think harder about what kind of birth I want in the future and why it's so important to me.


Maybe this^ is the key - seeing our friends having kids in ways that we would not choose for ourselves makes us examine our plans even more closely. There's a bit of peer pressure and even with my BFF I find myself not being very outspoken about my preference for homebirth/drug free/low interventions because I know it's so unusual nowadays. Plus the whole "you're not pregnant/haven't had a child so what do you know about birth" vibe that can be so easy to run into.


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## KaylaBeanie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stardogs*
> 
> Maybe this^ is the key - seeing our friends having kids in ways that we would not choose for ourselves makes us examine our plans even more closely. There's a bit of peer pressure and even with my BFF I find myself not being very outspoken about my preference for homebirth/drug free/low interventions because I know it's so unusual nowadays. Plus the whole "you're not pregnant/haven't had a child so what do you know about birth" vibe that can be so easy to run into.


Ahh, that's the WORST. I hate when people tell me "you're not a mom, you have no right to say x, y, z." I might not have had children yet, but I never say anything ridiculous or non-factual. Yes, there's always the chance I won't be able to nurse/homebirth/whatever, but we go through everything else in life with our eye on the prize...I don't live my life expecting to get cancer, because the odds are in my favor that I won't, just like the odds are in my favor that I'll be able to birth and parent the way I see is ideal. If it doesn't, I'll readjust my plans as I go, but no sense in planning for the worst. It absolutely makes me crawl the walls when someone says "oh honey, wait until you feel those labor pains!" or "what happens if something goes wrong?" Well geez judgmental woman, if something goes wrong I'll get my butt to the hospital for a c-section, duh!


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## stardogs

Yup KB - with you totally on that one!

A friend of mine is writing a blog series on the Mommy vs. Non-Mommy Divide and just posted the first entry today. I immediately thought of you guys and figured some of you might find it interesting to see it actually talked about. Link: http://adventuresinaubreyland.blogspot.com/2011/07/mommy-vs-non-mommy-divide-part-1-does.html


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## aquarius aspiring

I'm very careful when I talk about being a mama one day. I never think, "Oh, my kids will never do this or that". I come at it from the perspective of, "Oh, what would I do in the situation?" and sometimes I don't know what the heck I would do!

I do think there is a divide, but I'm not sure in what way or how it starts. I do think both groups (mommies and non-mommies) need to be respectful of each other's time though. I would love to see my friends with their babies in tow or not if they need the break. I'm always willing to baby-sit, too!

Thanks for posting the link, stardogs. Gives me something to think about!


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## KaylaBeanie

I think that mommy vs. non-mommy is just one of many divides women experience in their 20's. For instance, I know that as a single 22 year old, it's more fun to hang out with other single 22 year olds rather than married 22 year olds or 22 year olds in long-term committed relationships. The lifestyle is just different, you know?

I try to word myself carefully around moms when I'm talking. The way I see it, I know my personality better than anyone so there ARE some things I feel I can definitively say. For instance, I'm a born worker. I hate not working. I hope that I'm in a financial position to be able to stay home for like a year with each kid, but I know with certainty that being a long-term SAHM would absolutely drive me batty. Not to mention, I'm moving to a place with a high COL and to be frank, it's unlikely I'd be able to afford it. It's the same with getting out of the house. I have no doubt that having babies will dramatically change my social life, that's an obvious "duh." However, I've seen women successfully balance motherhood with a social life and given my utter hatred of sitting at home, I am pretty sure I'll be one of them...even if it just means sleepily dragging a baby to Starbucks, affixing it to my boob and talking with a friend.


----------



## aquarius aspiring

************


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## monkeyscience

You have my sympathies, aquarius. (I'm an aquarius too, btw.







) My dh does not like to plan far into the future, either. I also have a need to just talk through things, even if we don't have all the details, so I can start to process and plan. dh thinks that if I'm talking about it, it must mean: a.) I'm trying to plan it all now, and he's expected to magic up information from a crystal ball so I can do so, or b.) I'm unhappy with the present. We are working on this issue, but I don't have a lot of advice. The nice thing about my dh is that once he's committed to something, he's committed. He never wanted to talk about marriage until we actually got engaged, and then he was 100% focused on getting married. He didn't want to talk much at all about having kids when we were engaged, but once we got married, he was all on board. I think a lot of men just don't get women's needs to talk about things without having to come up with a firm plan of action. I have to remind my dh sometimes that I'm not looking for solution, I just want to think out loud a little with him. Maybe that would help your dh?


----------



## aquarius aspiring

*******************


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## stardogs

I ran into a similar issue a while ago and what really helped us was me using some tidbit of baby info I had found (i think it was something "safe", circumcision oddly enough since DH is intact and it's a non-issue for us, that we could both be on board with saying "wow, why do people do it that way, our kid would never go through that! hmm what do you think our kid(s) will look like..." LOL) to start a convo vs. trying to plan a "baby conversation". That, and DH meeting some of his friend's kids, seemed to make him feel less pressured to *plan* and more able to just discuss our general thoughts on the topic.


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## aquarius aspiring

How are you all? What's going on in your lives?


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## stardogs

Such a great update aquarius! 

Pretty much status quo here for me - had an awesome dock diving weekend sat/sun with two of my dogs and a good friend, but was sooo glad to be home.

The weather has finally broken a smidge, so I may actually get back into running my C25K program again - I quit when the heat indexes were in triple digits.


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## aquarius aspiring

Dock diving sounds awesome, stardogs! (I didn't know what that was at first, but Wikipedia helped!) The weather hasn't been too bad around here. Of course, warm weather sounded good to me because my workplace has been *freezing* these past couple weeks and the system only got fixed yesterday. Good luck with your C25k program!


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## aquarius aspiring

******************


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## stardogs

Congrats aquarius! Our tentative start date is 2014.


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## cynthia mosher

Hi everyone!

We have a new feature that allows forum members to create "clubs" of their own that have many of the same benefits of a forum, including multiple threads, a member's list, and group messaging. All tribes are invited to switch from the one-long-thread here in FYT to the new Social Groups. You can read more about it *here. *Let me know if you have any questions but please post to that thread so I can keep everything in one place.


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## maia.springgoddess

Hi everyone! Nice to meet ya. I've loved the idea of becoming a mama since I was about 12 years old and the longing has gotten pretty strong over the past year. DH and I have been together for 2.5 years and married 1 year. We both want kids (although he is a lot more relaxed about the whole thing), but want to pay off my student loans and save about $10,000 before TTC. I kid you not. So most likely we will start around summer/fall 2013. Even though the wait is frustrating, none of my friends have kids or are even close and it would be so nice to have that community. We have, however, found a name we love: Aspen! Also Willow and Madrone.

*Where do you live?*

My DH and I just moved to a small island in the San Juan Islands with no amenities (think year round population = 11). It is beautiful, peaceful, perfect... and brings with it a host of interesting challenges regarding work, getting essentials, support network, etc.

*How many kiddos do you want?*

Probably 2. I don't know what I would do with out my sister.

*Do you have any hobbies?*

Dancing! Trained in ballet, jazz, and modern. Love contra, swing, and blues too.

*What do you do as a job?*

I've spent the last year nannying for infants and teaching dance (since my college graduation). Now that we've moved I am currently on the search for something new. Maybe a boring full time job that pays lots of money so I can save up for my own future LO.

*Any non-crunchy confessions?*

We use a lot of ziploc bags and then throw them away instead of washing and reusing. Ack! We have a ton of pyrex so I need to start using those more consistently.

*Do you have any pets?*

A 1 year old puppy named Widget. Waking up in the middle of the night to let him out to pee is great practice!

*Do you have anything stashed away for your future kids?*

1 pair of penguin socks, 1 onesie bought at a fair, 2 onesies and 2 swim diapers and 1 dress I got handed down from a client.

*Favorite food?*

Swiss chard! I love me some vegetables.

*What brought you to MDC?*

My mom had a subscription when I was little and I just kept reading.

*Random fact?*

Except for 5th grade (which I spent in public school) I was educated solely by my mother and then, ages 12-18, I unschooled using books, family-friend-tutors, life experiences, college classes, etc.

*How old are you?*

22 (DH is 33)

*What are the best ways you've found to fulfill your mama-longings?*

Well what doesn't help is taking care of other people's adorable children almost every day.  I think what's helping me right now is focusing on working and saving money...and stalking DDCs every day.


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## elspethpaisley

Hi all,

This seems like the right place for me  My partner and I are planning to start ttc in January 2012, and we've just started talking to potential donors - very exciting to feel like things are finally moving forward, after many months of discussing. I don't want to let everyone in my community know what's going on yet, so I'm glad to have found a place to talk about it online! It's funny, I was the one who first brought up the idea of us having kids, and at first I thought she wouldn't want to, but now she's the one who is very definite that we're going to be parents together, and I'm more anxious about whether we're making the right choice. There was a stretch there when I was actively trying to keep myself from mentioning babies too often, because she felt like I was rushing her. We process things very differently.


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## KaylaBeanie

Well ladies, you are looking at the (soon to be) president of the University of Alabama chapter of the Alabama Birth Coalition! I'm pretty pumped


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## monkeyscience

Okay, so I have no idea what the Alabama Birth Coalition is, but sounds awesome! Congrats!


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## KaylaBeanie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *monkeyscience*
> 
> Okay, so I have no idea what the Alabama Birth Coalition is, but sounds awesome! Congrats!


Haha, sorry! Out-of-hospital birth with a Certified Professional Midwife (aka home or free-standing birth center) is illegal in Alabama. This means, as a pregnant woman, you have three options; hospital birth, unassisted home birth or a home birth attended by a midwife in secret that is documented as an unassisted birth. The Alabama Birth Coalition is working to get midwifery legalized


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## monkeyscience

Wow, that is ridiculous! I can see why they'd outlaw non-certified midwives, but why CPMs? Would home birth be legal with a doctor or CNM?


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## KaylaBeanie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *monkeyscience*
> 
> Wow, that is ridiculous! I can see why they'd outlaw non-certified midwives, but why CPMs? Would home birth be legal with a doctor or CNM?


In theory yes, but it doesn't happen due to crazy malpractice laws. Apparently there are less than a dozen CNMs who can legally deliver at home in Alabama. For such a big state, that's a tiny number and I'm not sure if they actually deliver at home or how often; just that legally they can do so.


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## stardogs

*pokes thread*

How's everyone doing this fall? Any big (or little special) plans for the holidays?

DH and I are looking forward to a week long "staycation" over the week of Thanksgiving. A trip to IKEA, last minute bulb planting and yard care before winter hits, and lots of relaxing with each other is on the agenda. Hopefully that'll make up for driving up to Indiana for a week after Christmas to visit my family and his!


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## stardogs

Oh and do we want to try the little forum thing mentioned in a message above?


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## aquarius aspiring

*pokes back*

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stardogs*
> 
> *pokes thread*
> 
> How's everyone doing this fall? Any big (or little special) plans for the holidays?
> 
> DH and I are looking forward to a week long "staycation" over the week of Thanksgiving. A trip to IKEA, last minute bulb planting and yard care before winter hits, and lots of relaxing with each other is on the agenda. Hopefully that'll make up for driving up to Indiana for a week after Christmas to visit my family and his!


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## monkeyscience

Funny... I was just thinking about this thread the other day and wondering if my subscription to it had accidentally been erased. Apparently not!

Both our parents are in town, so we will be hitting both up for Thanksgiving. Fortunately this year (unlike last year) it won't be on the same day. dh's family on Wednesday night, my family Thursday afternoon. But since dh and I started the South Beach diet last week, it's not going to be as much fun as usual. But hopefully less fattening. Actually, dh will probably eat whatever he wants with reckless abandon, so it'll just be me saying no to a second roll, or more than a bite or two of stuffing. 

Day after Thanksgiving we're headed to SF/Oakland area for dh's work, and we'll be there for a week, then home for a day, then driving to Oklahoma for work again. Then finally home for Christmas about a week before it happens. Luckily, dh has both the entire week of Thanksgiving off, plus the week before and after Christmas. That almost makes up for the fact that he's in California without me this week, and was randomly send out of town for the week two weeks ago. Almost. But not quite.


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## monkeyscience

Oh, and if anyone's still updating this thread... Kyamo got her bfp awhile back, and is due in March!! And I'm TTC now, though I will be going on BCP to try to help lose weight/tame my PCOS if I don't get pregnant this cycle. Not at all what I expected, but hopefully a good move if it comes to that.


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## TwilightJoy

Subbing.


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## KaylaBeanie

Hello everyone! Life is good here. In the depths of the semester, I just can't wait for it to be over. I graduate May 2013, it cannot come soon enough. Then it's on to grad school...then, real life...maybe? Haha.

Baby rabies are in full swing in this household. It doesn't help that I found out my SIL and brother are having another little one, due in July. Alas, I am painfully single so I'm just online shopping for tiny clothes for my niece/nephew and looking at my beautiful baby names I will someday use.


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## terrordactyl

hey everyone haven't been around in awhile. i feel like everywhere else on this board has had alot of Drama so i stayed away. i also obviously changed my Username used to be "Shaina"

update on me: currently applying to Birthwise Midwifery School in Maine, haven't told the BF yet not sure how he will take it at this point so not sure i'm kinda talk to him about it till all my paperwork is in and i'm sure i'm applying not sure how he would feel about moving across country from the only state he's ever live in. where i'm ready for the adventure and its my calling since i was 14 and i really need to just stop wasting time and do it. other than that just looking for a job and trying to take a couple classes next semester only problem is i didn't fill out a FAFSA last june does anyone know if you can still send one in this late?

Baby fever is always in high gear but i need to put it on a back burner till i get everything figured out

monkeyscience- I was wondering do you use Cloth Menstrual Pads? I know that it helped quit a few women i know with there PCOS when they took the switch from disposable to cloth because of the chemicals in the disposable. I know that when i finally switched my period went from over a week to about 4 days and was alot lighter and no cramps my acne also cleared up.


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## monkeyscience

*TFKAS (terrordactyl formerly known as Shaina)* - Good to see an old familiar face! As far as FAFSA goes, you can file one any time. It's just that some schools do financial aid on a first come/first serve basis, so later is worse for that. Also, if you're applying for next fall, you may actually need to fill out the new FAFSA next year, whenever you're done with your taxes. AFM, I've been using a DivaCup for about 4.5 years now, though I do occasionally use tampons, or, more rarely disposable pads. I've used cloth pads a few times for a backup to my DivaCup, but they haven't really won me over at this point. I'm actually on my 3rd O in 4 months, so I think not having the stress of working any more (I quit to travel with dh's job) has really changed things for me. However, I really doubt I'm pregnant this time, and obviously wasn't the last two times, so it's not as helpful as I thought it would be (finally getting my body O'ing, I mean). I don't know if I've mentioned it here or not, but if this cycle doesn't work out, I'm going to start BCPs for a few months to help shut down the overproduction of testosterone in my body, which should help me lose weight. Wishing it wouldn't come to that, but pretty sure it will. At least it will take me off the roller coaster of wondering and waiting and hoping for a few months.


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## aquarius aspiring

******************


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## terrordactyl

I totally understand, it seems like everyone around me is having babies, people i went to high school with are popping them out left and right. but I know its not my time just yet. as much as I want one there are so many things i still need to do before that I will have a hard time doing with a baby









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aquarius aspiring*
> 
> *deep breath*
> 
> One of my co-workers is pregnant following very closely on the heels of another co-worker who has a three-month-old baby. I'm trying to not let it get to me. I'm ecstatic for her and her husband (I'm starting to become friends with both of them). At the same time, I'm jealous. I hate that I'm jealous. I want a child so very badly sometimes. My ex-SIL is also pregnant...with her fourth child and it was a surprise for her and her boyfriend (but they weren't preventing that much either) and they can't afford the three kids they have and it just kills me that my husband and I are waiting for the right time and that right time won't be at least for another year. We're waiting so we get settled somewhere and be more financially stable. I mean, we're okay now. We really are, but things could always be better (like having a budget for starters).
> 
> I'm just impatient and sad and jealous and the waiting to TTC is killing me! I'm okay most days, but it's hard sometimes. I know that all the "nest building" we do now is going to be a good thing when the right time comes. For right now, I just need to get myself in a better place. I need to eat healthy and lose a lot of weight to be healthier. I also don't wait the deck stacked against me when I do get pregnant and have high blood pressure right from the get go. My co-worker's pregnancy was considered high risk just because of the simple fact that she was overweight (blood pressure and all other vitals were perfectly fine) and I do not want that to happen to me.
> 
> I just have to keep reminding myself that it'll all be worth it in a few years when we do have our first baby.
> 
> Thank you for listening to me vent. I know if anybody'll understand, it'll be the people here.


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## stardogs

(((hugs))) My baby thoughts have come back recently, too, and the number of preggers friends has even decreased!  TFKAS's last line hits home for me as well:

Quote:


> as much as I want one there are so many things i still need to do before that I will have a hard time doing with a baby


Sometimes being responsible and logical sucks!


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## aquarius aspiring

***********


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## terrordactyl

hey does anyone here blog? I'm not on here as much anymore (I feel like a lot has gone downhill) but I would still love to hear about whats going on with you all. not sure if were allowed to post our blog in a thread (one of the reasons i'm not a fan of mothering right now) but mine is in my profile.


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## stardogs

I have dog blogs, no real human centric blogs.  I say post the blog link - what's the worst that could happen? They delete the link after we've all seen it?


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## stardogs

Erm I just realized the first post on this thread is from a YEAR ago - perhaps we should start a new one? I would but don't know any of the updates on the people on the original post who we don't see frequently now.

Big news! DH and I were looking at our plans for the next 4 years and oddly enough discussion of yard work and house projects led to discussion of a munchkin! He was totally relaxed in the discussion, which is a change over the last year, and we are OFFICIALLY going to start TTC after my IUD comes out in Dec. 2014! So if all goes as planned, my 2015/16 is going to be one heck of a new adventure! 

Up 'til now it's been a "yea probably in 2015, but we'll need to discuss it in more detail later" thing, so to have DH say "yea, why don't we just start trying for a munchkin whenever your IUD comes out" has me pretty thrilled (and a bit nervous too LOL even tho it's still 3 years off).

So three years to find a workout routine and stick to it (I want to be in great shape before pregnancy - one of my friends hiked 6-8 miles per weekend up until she hit 37 weeks(!) and I want to be able to do that, too!), build my dog training business further so we can start saving up more, get a looong list of titles on my dogs since my training and trialling time will be more limited after baby, and get the house to a more finished place for the same reason! Wheeeee!


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## KaylaBeanie

My blog is in my profile as well 

I never really have much time to browse MDC. Life is busy here in Alabama! I found out today that I got accepted into a month-long academic program in Greece this summer, so I'm following up to make sure it'll be a wise move in terms of credits/graduation, but it's looking good!

In birth-related news, my baby rabies are as strong as ever. My SIL (the one who natural births with midwives and got me hooked on all this) is expecting number three this summer (brother is deployed), so I'll be staying with her to help out...I'll get to see my first birth! I'm very excited.


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## monkeyscience

I suppose this is the wrong time to announce I'm 10 weeks pregnant?







But I started wanting a baby about 15 years ago (when I was 13!), so I've definitely done my time waiting. Not to mention the year and a half of TTC to get this little bean. But since I joined this group almost 4 years ago, with no dh or any prospects on the horizon, I am glad to finally be considered a graduate!


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## KaylaBeanie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *monkeyscience*
> 
> I suppose this is the wrong time to announce I'm 10 weeks pregnant?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I started wanting a baby about 15 years ago (when I was 13!), so I've definitely done my time waiting. Not to mention the year and a half of TTC to get this little bean. But since I joined this group almost 4 years ago, with no dh or any prospects on the horizon, I am glad to finally be considered a graduate!


CONGRATULATIONS!



































I'm so happy for you!


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## stardogs

That is AWESOME monkey! I'm so glad to hear about your graduation!


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## aquarius aspiring

Congratulations, monkey! That's such happy news!


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## sphinxie

Did NMY die out? This is the last thread I can find.


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## monkeyscience

It would seem so... which is sad! Back when I first joined it was really active, and was a great place to be for all those of us wishing for babies but not having them yet for a variety of reasons. (Not that I'm saying it isn't a great place, just that it isn't as active.)

Also... don't know if I ever came back and said THANK YOU for all the congrats... thank you!! We are excited. We just found out two days ago that we are expecting a little boy.


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## sphinxie

I wonder why? And would it be easier to maintain and more sustainable if it was a group instead of a tribe?


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## Cyllya

I just figured no body had anything to say about the fact that they're not mamas yet.


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## sphinxie

Well if anyone else wants to start things up again, speak up!


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## aquarius aspiring

Hi, everyone!









There seems to have been a minor pregnancy explosion at work lately. One co-worker is pregnant, one work associate is pregnant, the wife of a co-worker is pregnant, and the wife of a work associate is pregnant. I'm completely thrilled for everyone (and a teeny bit jealous).

I'm working on eating better and exercising more which are the biggest things I want to work on before getting pregnant.

How's everyone else doing?


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## JenniO11

Hi ladies - I know this group isn't super active right now but wondering if I could dip my toe in? I've been meaning to join for months but have been lurking! I'm Jen and have always known 100% that I wanted to be a mama. My own mom was an AP parent (she didn't call it that, but she practiced extended breastfeeding, babywearing, co-sleeping, and still gets teary-eyed when she talks about all the advice she got to let my brother and I cry it out, and how she "just couldn't ever walk away when you were crying! It meant you needed me!") I think of her as an "instinctual" parent - she definitely didn't engage in all AP practices, but my brother and I both grew up very attached to her, her in a positive way. I've always known I would be like her!

Just as a disclaimer: you might be able to tell from my badge that I work for Mothering. I'm the liaison between our sponsors and the community, which means I run contests, work with advertisers, and see how the community and sponsors are getting along. I am NOT here to sell anything - I work for Mothering, not for the sponsors. I'm also not here to pick your brain or get an "in" with the community - I'm really just here because I want to be here. It's kind of funny, because sometimes I worry that people are going to think I'm some sort of "plant" in the audience, or a spy - but if I was, wouldn't I probably pose as someone with kids? Anyway. I'm here as myself, a Mothering member and employee, but not as some kind of shill or anything.

Here are my get to know you answers:
-Where do you want to live/where do you live?

I live in San Francisco as of about 7 months ago - before that I lived on the SF Peninsula. But I'm originally an LA girl.

*How many kiddos do you want, and does anyone plan to adopt?

Two, for now, but I can see three happening. While I would obviously love any and all children that come for me, I can't help thinking that if I had two boys or two girls, I would probably be more likely to definitely have the third!

*Do you have any hobbies?

Right now, honestly, getting settled into my apartment (my boyfriend and I have recently moved in together) is a big one. We read and watch a lot of sci fi, so that's a hobby (we're huge nerds!) I also dance - currently, only for fun and in Zumba classes (dance exercise - if you don't do it, you should!) but for about 5 years in high school and college I did social ballroom dance - swing, salsa, waltz, two-step, tango. That's my passion.

*What do you do as a job?
I work for Mothering as a sponsor liaison. I do reports, run contests, help write content, the whole deal. You can find me in the Sponsored Content forum









*Any non-crunchy confessions?*
I'm really not very good at eating all-organic and natural. I wasn't raised that way (my mom tried her hardest, but dad was Mr. Meat and Potatoes) and currently my budget doesn't really allow for it. I'm focusing instead on eating as healthfully as possible, cutting out processed foods and almost all non-fruit sugar. It's a challenge because, despite living in San Francisco, my friends and family are not very crunchy! My worst confession is that I occasionally eat McDonalds. I'm ashamed of it, but it's the closest thing to the office and sometimes those fries just call to me.

1. Do you have any pets? If so, what kind and what are their names? 
No pets are allowed in our apartment 

2. Do you have anything stashed away for your future kids? (oh-so-cute outfit you couldn't not buy? Special cradle that's been in the family forever?

I saved all my favorite stuffed animals in a big drawer under my bed in my parents house. I know my kids probably won't want any of my super old toys, but I can't help but keep them!

3. Favorite food?

Peanut butter.

4. What brought you to MDC?

Work, originally, but (if you won't tell my boss) I spend more time here reading threads and the blog than is probably necessary  One of my close friends from high school is having a baby in October

5. Random fact about yourself

I lived in Madrid for 3 months in college and am(was?) fluent in Spanish.


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## stardogs

Hi Jenni! I haven't been on Mothering for a while, but just popped on today to see how things were going. It's nice to see a new face!

Aquarius, I'm good - it seems that my friends are on a baby hiatus for a little while after about 2 years of zillions of babies, so that has reduced the baby rabies to intermittant baby fever. LOL A friend did post a really cute shower idea today (have everyone design a onesie with permanent marker on a plain onesie and give them to the mom-to-be), so I've started a new file on Shower Ideas. It never does quite go away!

Life is good in general - I'm pretty happy where I am, though I'm still working on a few of those self improvement goals. Right now I'm trying to cut back on soda - soooooo hard but I know it's better for me in the long run.


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## stardogs

helloooooo out there!

I'm wondering if we should start a new thread - this one's title is from early 2011!! Of course I'm not quite sure what that entails, but I figured I'd throw that out there!

Also, really random but I figured you guys are some of the few who would get this: last night DH mentioned reading an article about a woman still breastfeeding a 5yo and the backlash against the writer (her husband) who was complaining about feeling like he had to compete with his son for "boob time". It sparked a really interesting discussion of breastfeeding and my thoughts on the subject for our future kid as well as why breastfeeding is done past when teeth erupt (which is when he figured it stopped lol). It was so cool that he was actually curious about the topic and I was thrilled that he asked questions!


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## JenniO11

Hi Erin! I'm still here







Maybe we should start a new thread? I worry that anyone who used to come around might not be able to find us, but if you do, definitely just post a link to it here.

I love your DH's interest in the topic! I'm really lucky in that my DP is almost as excited about babies as I am, and we actually have a lot of really good discussions about having babies, how we plan to raise children, etc. Breastfeeding is one that guys almost NEVER seem to get right away though - a few months ago, DP said something to the effect of, "I totally agree with breastfeeding, I just don't understand why women fight to do it in public when it makes other people uncomfortable - why don't they just go somewhere else? Why does it matter?" Me: "







."

After a ten minute lecture in which I (mostly) calmly enumerated all of the reasons that NIP should be a right and why it IS a big deal, DP got really quiet and thoughtful and said, "Wow, you know, I feel like a total idiot now. I really never thought it through. You're 100% right and my argument was 100% wrong. The fact that I or anyone else am uncomfortable is totally irrelevant! Babies should never have to wait to eat, and women should not be told they should hide something so awesome. Thanks for explaining it. I still feel a little uncomfortable, but I'm going to work on that in the future." I feel like that response makes it pretty clear why this is the man for me







Now can we get the politicians to respond like that?

Any other NMY out there?


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## stardogs

Ok posted a new thread! Go here: http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1358766/not-mama-yet-tribe-summer-fall-2012


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