# Carseats installed wrong



## quietserena (Apr 24, 2006)

I see that number often that 80% of the carseats aren't installed properly.

What kinds of things are we talking about here? I mean, there's pretty much the only way to install a carseat in the car.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *quietserena* 
I see that number often that 80% of the carseats aren't installed properly.

What kinds of things are we talking about here? I mean, there's pretty much the only way to install a carseat in the car.

Misuse could be using a car seat against manufacturer's recommendations (FF too soon, booster too soon, harnessed over the weight limits), using LATCH and seatbelt together, install too loose, not using a locking clip when one is necessary, using a locking clip when it is not necessary, not using a top tether, using a locking clip wrong (very few parents use a LC correctly), using the wrong harness slots (above shoulder for RF or below shoulder for FF), not to mention big stuff like infant seats FF and 2 year olds in boosters.

The list really does go on and on. In all the car seat checks I have done, I have seen exactly zero showing perfect installation and use.


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## Erin+babyAndrew (Jan 2, 2004)

You'd be surprised the mistakes people make. I've seen/heard of some mind boggling misuse.
Toddlers! forward facing in infant buckets that are only meant to be used rear facing.
Convertibles installed so that they are laying down on the seat, with the bottom of the seat up against the backrest of the rear seat.
harness straps pushed through the splitter plate, instead of looped onto the arms of the plate.
kids moved to booster too soon
kids in harness that have outgrown by height/weight
infants ffing
kids not in seats at all
seatbelts threaded through the wrong belt path
I could go on and on... there are many mistakes that can happen.


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## PassionateWriter (Feb 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 

The list really does go on and on. In all the car seat checks I have done, I have seen exactly zero showing perfect installation and use.

wow....that is sooo sad.


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## ElaynesMom (May 24, 2008)

One thing I've heard a lot of is installing witch LATCH in the center in vehicles that do not allow it.


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## slmtoya (May 15, 2006)

infants and children in the front seat of cars (not including trucks where there's no back seat).


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## richella (Nov 30, 2004)

The techs I know can almost always get the seat in tighter than we can.
Once he replaced the locking clip with one he brought. He said the brand we had had a high failure rate.


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## Alison's Mom (May 3, 2007)

Not technically an *installation* issue, but I've seen tons of people who don't tighten the seat belt tight enough around the child, or have the chest clip way too low.

I've also seen infants riding in buckets where the handle is in the upright position while they're driving.

The worst, though, is seeing very small children - 2 or 3 yrs old - running around in the back seat because they're not strapped in at all, or babies sitting the parent's lap!


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## mimie (Mar 7, 2003)

Just a few, off the top of my head...

-Expired seat
-Recalled seat
-Twisted straps
-Straps too loose
-Chest clip too low (or too high, not as common)
-After market products such as Bundle Me, head supports, strap covers, etc.
-FFing too soon
-Booster too soon
-Adult belt too soon
-No restraint at all!
-Outgrown harness weight limit
-Outgrown harness height limit
-Less than one inch of shell left above the head in a RFing seat
-Straps at the wrong height (should be at or above shoulders for FFing, at or below shoulders for RFing)
-Installed with seatbelt, belt not tight
-Installed with seatbelt, belt not locked
-Installed with seatbelt, needs a locking clip
-Locking clip used incorrectly
-Installed with seatbelt, wrong belt path (i.e. FFing belt path for a RFing install)
-Installed with LATCH, wrong anchors used (such as a center install when not allowed by car manufacturer)
-Installed with LATCH, straps not tight
-Installed with LATCH, straps through wrong path
-Installed with LATCH, hooks upside down
-Installed with LATCH, child exceeds LATCH weight limits for the seat or vehicle
-FFing without top tether (technically this is okay in the US, but not the safest)
-Top tether hooked to a non-approved spot
-Infant seat or RFing seat over-reclined
-Infant seat or RFing seat too upright
-Infant seat handle in wrong position
-Low back booster seat used without adequate head support (i.e. no vehicle head rests)
-Poor fit of belt-positioning booster: lap belt over child's abdomen rather than hips
-Poor fit of BPB: shoulder belt is too high or too low
-Shape of belt guides on BPB allow slack in the shoulder belt when the child moves


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## Lily's_Mom (Feb 11, 2008)

Pretty much every picture I see on the internet (facebook, etc) and when I see my friend/family's kids in their carseats IRL, it looks unsafe. For example,

straps twisted
straps loose
chest clip too low
harness slots too high
babies under one year old forward facing
children under 40 lbs AND four years in a backless booster
carseat installed with a seatbelt that doesn't lock, and no locking clip used
kid in a high-back booster with the seat belt slid off his shoulder
tether strap not anchored
etc etc etc

Most of the time, it is a combination of many factors, such as a 9 month old in a forward-facing seat where the harness slots are too high, the chest clip is too low, the straps are twisted and loose and the tether strap is not anchored. Basically, if the car were in a crash, the kid would be ejected from the seat, no doubt...there is nothing holding them in.

When I see kids that aren't even strapped into the carseat properly, I can only imagine how gimmicky the carseat install itself is. I think strapping a kid into the seat is the easy part, it's getting the restraint installed in the vehicle that is the hard part. I think the only kids I've seen strapped in properly are the pics linked to the children of carseat safety technicians here on MDC.

Here's my question, what's a good line to use to bring to someone's attention that their kid isn't safely restrained in the vehicle? It's pretty obvious that many parents aren't reading the instruction manuals at all. All the points that are highlighted with a warning box saying, "Failure to xxxxxxx may result in serious injury or death" and the parents don't xxxxxxx. It often crosses my mind that I really hope these people never get into a crash, because their kids won't survive.


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

What I would really like to know is why carseat installation is so freaking difficult that the average person is doing it wrong 80% of the time (many times after carefully reading the manual). That is the real issue imo.


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## cognito (Nov 30, 2007)

I really don't think people are reading the manual carefully all that often. I've read them cover to cover for all of our carseats, they are installed correctly & used properly every time. I'm not a tech either. DF hasn't read the manuals & installs them properly every time too (with my guidance). I think many people skim through the manuals or just look at the stickers. There's no real way to prove that though.

I think another part is people not knowing when to ask for help. If you don't understand something, then call a professional. Being stubborn can lead to risking a child's life.

Carseat installation & proper use just really doesn't seem that hard to me.

The one thing that did trip me up in the very beginning was that the middle seat in a Jimmy is a no-no even with the seatbelt. I hadn't thought to read the vehicle manual too.


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

I've always read the manuals carefully and I've found that usually the manuals are lacking and confusing (and I'm of above average intelligence







).
I had to come hear for help installing my youngest's Marathon.


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## accountclosed3 (Jun 13, 2006)

i also read both my car's instructions and the manual's instructions more than once and still couldn't figure it out for the marathon. i called the company, but they weren't much help over the phone.

i tried to get the police dept to help, then the fire dept--neither did. i went to BRU and asked someone there to help, and no one did.

so, now, we're just hoping that we got it right. i followed the instructions, and when there's a safety check day at the fire dept, police dept or BRU, i'll head over to make sure.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LavenderMae* 
What I would really like to know is why carseat installation is so freaking difficult that the average person is doing it wrong 80% of the time (many times after carefully reading the manual). That is the real issue imo.

No the real issue is that people think of car seats as something they should be able to install themselves from just the manual with no training or previous experience. Sure there are people who can do brake jobs with just the Chilton manual, but I'd be leery of riding in their car the first time they tried it.

A lot of the things mentioned here, though, come from people not using the manual at all. Someone in another thread (AugustSky, I think) mentioned that her dh thought the carseat was fine when the belt was loose enough that the seat could move from the middle to one of the side seats--that isn't "not the instructions are too complicated" that's not even trying.

Or people get a seat from their friend (who got it from a friend, who got it from a friend...) and there is no manual any more.

Or, they can't read the manual, at least mine only came in English, might be a number or something to call for other languages, I'd hope so anyway.


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

Carseats are meant to be installed by the consumer so I do not think that parents are wrong to assume they should be able to follow the manual (meant for them afterall) and install the seat correctly.


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## goodheartedmama (Feb 1, 2007)

Quote:

I've also seen infants riding in buckets where the handle is in the upright position while they're driving
Some infant seats state the the handle should be in the upright position.


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## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

The number of mistakes boggle my mind.

Although I took our car seats to be checked about a year ago and the officer said I was the first person in his career that had the seats installed correctly...and there is NO way he could have gotten them any tighter. They don't budge for me.

We'll see how good I did again...DH is taking the van over on Sat to have them checked again...


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## Shelsi (Apr 4, 2005)

THe manuals can be confusing. My best sources for info have been the internet forums for car seat safety. I'm not a tech but I can install a seat correctly.

Heck, sadly enough, the last time I took a seat to be inspected (by a CPST) they didn't get it in nearly as tightly as I had it. I had to re-do it myself which I found annoying. Plus they couldn't find anything wrong with my install in the first place and then it was like the lady was just trying to find ANYTHING to pick on just so she could correct me on something







Don't get me wrong, I think CPSTs are awesome in general and I recommend to all my friends to get their seats checked but that particular CPST was not helpful.

Oh and many people just don't care. My best friend turned her failure to thrive daughter forward facing at 6 months old. She was approx 12 lbs. She had her other daughter in one of those 3 in 1 seats and was using the top slot with the harness even though it's not for that. When I told her she didn't care. She didn't care about ffing the 6 mos old either even though I sent her crash test videos and lots of links. She's a great mom usually...I don't know why she has such a "it won't happen to me" attitude when it comes to car seats but it's scary.

My FIL can install the seat ffing pretty easily for my ds but then he's always trying to to top tether it to something wrong. We get into a battle of wills often over car seat installation when they come to visit (they have a bigger car so when they visit we put the seats in their car so we don't have to drive 2 cars everywhere we go).


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## Jes'sBeth (Aug 30, 2004)

I absolutely think that you should be able to install a carseat after reading the manual. If you HAD to have a tech install your seat then there should be a WHOLE lot more techs and there should be more than 4 (or 6 or even 12) clinics a year. There should be a place you can get your seat checked every day and there just isn't.

There should be WAY WAY WAY more general information about carseats.

Think about it though... 30 yrs ago carseats weren't even here really (at least in Canada) My mom sewed little harnesses for my brother and me and had us looped to the seat belt. She thinks it was safe to let us roam around the back seat on our little tethers...

We just need to educate, educate, educate!


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## Alison's Mom (May 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *goodheartedmama* 
Some infant seats state the the handle should be in the upright position.

Really? When I was told by a tech that the handle shouldn't be upright, I thought it was because in the event of a crash, if the straps don't hold the child back (because they're twisted, not buckled right, etc) the child wouldn't hit something that was thin, hard and plastic right away?

Quote:

Here's my question, what's a good line to use to bring to someone's attention that their kid isn't safely restrained in the vehicle?
Anyone have suggestions on this so that we don't sound like over-paranoid busybodies?


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## MommytoTwo (Jun 20, 2004)

No some new seats allow you to ride with the handle up. The infant seat we bought in 07 (Graco) allowed it.

Like a pp said, the tech I went to put our seat in loosely. I went home and got my pregnant self on top of it, and it didnt move an inch after that. I find the britax easy to install.


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## Phoenix_Rising (Jun 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
Misuse could be using a car seat against manufacturer's recommendations (FF too soon, booster too soon, harnessed over the weight limits), *using LATCH and seatbelt together*, install too loose, not using a locking clip when one is necessary, using a locking clip when it is not necessary, not using a top tether, using a locking clip wrong (very few parents use a LC correctly), using the wrong harness slots (above shoulder for RF or below shoulder for FF), not to mention big stuff like infant seats FF and 2 year olds in boosters.

Okay, I almost did this today. DS was taking the seatbelt and pulling it around himself, including his legs, arms, and neck. Ack! Fortunately we were not on a strict timeline and I was able to just pull over and let him run around a park for about 15 minutes (thankfully there was one right there!). So, why can't I use both LATCH and the seatbelt and what can I do to keep DS from being able to wrap himself up in the seatbelt? I am sure this is a really stupid question, but I sure don't know the answer! TIA







:


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alison's Mom* 
Really? When I was told by a tech that the handle shouldn't be upright, I thought it was because in the event of a crash, if the straps don't hold the child back (because they're twisted, not buckled right, etc) the child wouldn't hit something that was thin, hard and plastic right away?

There are only a few infant seats that don't let you (Evenflo for example) but all the Graco seats allow the handle to be up, and some (like Combi) require them to be up.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Susannah M* 
Okay, I almost did this today. DS was taking the seatbelt and pulling it around himself, including his legs, arms, and neck. Ack! Fortunately we were not on a strict timeline and I was able to just pull over and let him run around a park for about 15 minutes (thankfully there was one right there!). So, why can't I use both LATCH and the seatbelt and what can I do to keep DS from being able to wrap himself up in the seatbelt? I am sure this is a really stupid question, but I sure don't know the answer! TIA







:

You can uninstall the car seat, buckle the seatbelt, then install the car seat with LATCH over the seatbelt.


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## Phoenix_Rising (Jun 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
You can uninstall the car seat, buckle the seatbelt, then install the car seat with LATCH over the seatbelt.









It just took DP and I a couple of minutes to figure out that you meant to buckle the seatbelt without the carseat in the car and then install the carseat using LATCH. Tired, much?







Thanks!


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Susannah M* 







It just took DP and I a couple of minutes to figure out that you meant to buckle the seatbelt without the carseat in the car and then install the carseat using LATCH. Tired, much?







Thanks!

Lol yes I wondered if that was readily apparent but I didn't want to make a huge long confusing step-by-step post!


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## Lily's_Mom (Feb 11, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alison's Mom* 

Quote:

Here's my question, what's a good line to use to bring to someone's attention that their kid isn't safely restrained in the vehicle?
Anyone have suggestions on this so that we don't sound like over-paranoid busybodies?

Thank you, that's exactly why I'm looking for a 'good line' to use. Every time I tell my dh, "Did you see _____'s baby? The straps were way too loose." And he says, "Why didn't you say something?" Well, because I don't want to sound like an 'over-paranoid busybody!' It's hard to tell someone that they're doing something wrong as a parent.


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## CarsonBookworm (Sep 25, 2006)

It took us forever to get DD's carseat placed into the IL's car correctly.

I swear, sometimes those manuals really throw me for a loop.


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## SleepyMamaBear (Jun 5, 2005)

recently DHs friend came to visit and had his small 3yo in a low back booster, when they pulled up the belt was under his arm cause"it rubs his face if its not under his arm"
umm dude, you dont think maybe there is a problem with that?
we told him "its just not safe, if you got in any kind of accident your child could die or live with a terrible injury. and asked if he wanted to borrow our extra Marathon, with the provision that he buy an appropriate seat for his child and get the kids mom to do the sme for her car.
its SCARY to think what might have happened.
so, if i see a seat installed wrong, or a child in the seat wrong, i say something, "i dont want to sound paranoid, but with the research i have done on carseats, and with the films of crashtests i have seen, i can tell your seat/child isnt as safe as it could be, can i help you fix it? i really dont mind, anything for the safety of children" and ad a







i try not to say "thats wrong" because then parents get defensive "but "not as safe as it could be" or even "not really safe" and then give one or two facts about carseats really helps. "did you know that up to 80% of carseats are being used wrong? lets help you get to the 20%" it might sound busy body, but i bet most paents when presented with information that could save their childrens lives will be grateful. i know i am.


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## CarsonBookworm (Sep 25, 2006)

*Shivers*
That is truly scary.


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

IMO between your car manual and the carseat manual, you are pretty much covered. If in doubt, you can find the answer online fairly easily in most cases. Most parents however don't even read their carseat manual, let alone the car manual and then go look for answers for things they couldn't find. The manuals are very clear on strap height, which straps are o.k. to use for rfing and ffing, no LATCH and seatbelt together, when to ff etc. Most people just don't both to read it b/c they think they know it all.


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## Shelsi (Apr 4, 2005)

I made the mistake of watching an episode of Bringing Home Baby the other day. As they were leaving the hospital the dad was saying how his job was to keep the baby as safe as possible, etc, etc. Then they showed the kid in his carseat and the harness straps were above his EARS







: The baby had a blanket over it so I couldn't see where the chest clip was or how snug the harness was but I can only imagine.

They also showed this dad putting together an Arm's Reach co-sleeper, bouncer, and stroller, and he always ended up with extra pieces and he actually said he didn't bother to read the instructions on any of them. Scary. I don't think people realize just how small a space a newborn can fit into or how far they can wiggle and squirm to get themselves into a dangerous situation if you're not careful.


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## Marylizah (Jun 17, 2005)

Sorry,







I still don't get why it's bad to use LATCH + seatbelt to install the carseat.

We have DS in the middle, where technically we can't use the LATCH. So we use the seatbelt to install, and clip the latches to the LATCH, and use the top tether, all as extra security. The seat doesn't move at all.

So why is this bad?

Also, WHY don't cars let you use LATCH in the middle??? After all, it's the safest spot!


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## ElaynesMom (May 24, 2008)

That really may not be safe. Carseats have not been tested this way. It may be ok, and it may not, we don't know, and I wouldn't risk it. In order for your restraint to work as designed you should follow the manual. If you would like your seat installed in the center, and your vehicle does not allow latch in the center, a seatbelt only installation is perfectly fine.

And also, not all cars state not to use latch in the center. My car allows latch to be used in the center seating posion *OR* in both outboard positions.


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## Shelsi (Apr 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marylizah* 
Sorry,







I still don't get why it's bad to use LATCH + seatbelt to install the carseat.

We have DS in the middle, where technically we can't use the LATCH. So we use the seatbelt to install, and clip the latches to the LATCH, and use the top tether, all as extra security. The seat doesn't move at all.

So why is this bad?

Also, WHY don't cars let you use LATCH in the middle??? After all, it's the safest spot!

If you use both LATCH and the seat belt it could cause pressure in different places on the seat in a crash and cause the seat to break or not perform properly. No one knows though because they've never tested it. I wouldn't want my kid being the guinea pig though, kwim?

They don't let you use LATCH in the middle in some cars because the LATCH connectors need to be spaced a certain way to be connected to the car seat. So, for example (I don't know the actual numbers at all), the connectors must be 11" apart for the car seat. If you use the LATCH from the center on a vehicle that doesn't allow it, it's because the connectors are too far apart and could be, say, 13" apart which, again, puts the pressure points in a crash on different places on the car seat then where it's supposed to be.

Clear as mud right?


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## Marylizah (Jun 17, 2005)

Both answers make sense, thanks for the replies.

I'll ask DH to undo the LATCH restraints.


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## sunnymw (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marylizah* 
Both answers make sense, thanks for the replies.

I'll ask DH to undo the LATCH restraints.

And don't forget to store the LATCH pieces so they don't go flying in a crash









I believe standard spacing is 11", and non-standard spacing is 16". Now, SOME vehicles allow "borrowing" and still have 16" in between the center anchors, and then you default to your car seat manual--some seats allow you to use LATCH with non-standard spacing, and some don't. (ie, you CAN with Britax, IF the vehicle allows it... however you canNOT with the Radian).

Someday, really, seriously, there needs to be a standard. Like, all 3 positions have their own dedicated LATCH anchors (1 make already does this... volvo??), all cars have RF *and* FF tether points for all 3 positions, all seat belts lock the same way. I mean, I can dream, right?


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## Past_VNE (Dec 13, 2003)

I know a family who is _totally_ obsessive about only one brand of carseat, obsessive about extended rear-facing and very outspoken about it. Yet, when I saw her installation, my jaw dropped. The seatbelt was nowhere close to pulled taut, let alone pulling the carseat tight into the car's seat. It was completely wobbly if you touched it. On top of that, the toddler's straps were well above his shoulders, the straps were L O O S E on him and the chest clip was all the way down to the crotch clip. I had a good laugh about it inside...all the pompous crap she spouted. OMG Oh, if only he were safe, it would have been truly comical.

Next, I saw a bucket seat sliding off the side of the old minivan's third row. This mama was coming to our homebirth midwive's potluck get-together and we all sat around the importance of breastfeeding, making informed decisions, no circumcision, etc. Nobody replied when I mentioned the importance of safe travel.









And, last good tale, was the mom who had two FF kids (both could have RF). The younger one was, honestly, a serious brat. She whined about her seat straps, so the mom put the shoulder straps under her shoulders and just buckled the crotch strap without any tightening. And, then she made some bs excuse to me about how it was a short drive (yeah, on 65 mph roads) and it was probably just as safe...blah, blah, blah. The older kid was mis-installed too...but not as badly.


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