# Anxiety- not just "being a typical teen"



## KimPossible129 (Mar 9, 2007)

My 14-year old is struggling with anxiety issues lately. She was in therapy a few years back, around the age of 10-11, for OCD behaviors. After about a year of therapy and medications, it seemed to resolve itself. I always knew it could rear its' ugly head again, and it has.

The first time around, she was fearful, had difficulty making decision, and was just acting "weird", for lack of a better word. As a parent, you know your kid, and I knew something was wrong. There were other circumstances during that time (related to my ex and his living situation) that were resolved (he is no longer a part of her life, I know that's not the ideal resolution, but it was completely his choice, because he didn't like what the judge, therapist and guardian ad litem had to say).

The problem I am struggling with this time, is that she is now a TEEN with anxiety. Ages 12 and 13 were really good years, considering what a lot of teens (and parents) go through. At 14, however, she has developed teen characteristics (aka attitude) that work it's way in, in between her being scared, unconfident, paranoid and hysterical at times. For example, she just graduated middle school, and all of the activities associated with it were very difficult to get through. Deciding whether to go to the senior dance, the senior trip, then what to wear. What to wear is a DAILY issue- I'm not exaggerating. But it's not "OMG I don't know what to wear, lol"- it is a serious anxiety inducing experience... DAILY. So, imagine shopping for a dress, shoes, and picking out a hair style (it was a semi-formal event, at a very nice catering hall). Worries about being over-dressed, under-dressed, what will everyone say? I know teens typically worry about this stuff, but what she does to herself is torturous. We spent hours in one store, crying, stuttering, her not believing me when I tell her that this is appropriate. Hours. Then the same with the shoes. Her sitting in the shoe store in tears, and embarrassed that people might be looking at her. Me, being embarrassed that people think I have a typical nasty teen that I cannot control. Well, right now I can't control her. And I can't let her sit in the house and rot. Today is her last official day of school (yes, we love in the corner of the country where school just lingers on forever). While I feel relieved that we won't have to do the daily "what should I wear" game, I am fearful that if given the choice, she will hide in her room all summer. Then,we have to tackle transitioning to high school, which is another chapter in this tale.

She won't have that choice for the whole summer, but she will have some down-time. She is in therapy, and I am in the process of getting a psychiatrist to prescribe her something, the therapist concurs with me that this is beyond age-appropriate behavior, and that some of her thoughts are just not rational. Her life is a series of "what-if" questions. It took her over two months to decide what color iPhone to buy. She had been waiting years for me to give in and get her one. With the help of the therapist (and my ultimatum) she finally got it this week. I hate the ultimatums (who on earth forces their kid to get an iPhone?), but if I do not give her a limit with consequences, she will not do anything. But she goes into severe panic mode when the deadline approaches. 

Anyway, I can't say that my words can convey what is really going on here, but I'm hoping I can connect with someone who will just listen, and maybe offer some insight. As parents, we tend to be very quick to judge and blame. I've already blamed myself ten times over for all this- what did I do, what didn't I do was I not strict enough, too strict (for a while I couldn't get her to even answer a question about school, friends, anything random- not an attitude for an answer, but but literally couldn't come up with words). Am I putting too much pressure on her, are my expectations of her ridiculosly high (they are not, btw). I expect her to try hard and actually do her school work, which she did well in this year. Her behavior is appropriate I'm school, which makes me feel even more to blame.

I have a small number of friends I can share this with, because the rest just say stupid things like "welcome to the teen years" or "just wait, it only gets worse". My 'mother and husband (her step father) don't get it either- they try, but their patience is limited. My mom doesn't "get" mental illness, and my husband has his own anxiety issues, and ironically can't relate to others problems. Hopefully there is someone here who gets it...


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## discalceata (May 27, 2014)

I was a teenager with OCD. Medication made the problem much worse, and moving out on my own resulted in crippling panic attacks on a fairly regular basis. When I was 19 and in college, I saw a psychologist for talk therapy and that helped tremendously. I think for some kids it's an extreme reaction to the loss of control they feel, at an age when nature is telling them to head out on their own but socially they aren't ready yet. It sounds like it's a control thing with her too, since it's flared up during her issues with her dad and during the middle school - high school transition stage. Those are both scary, out-of-control times and OCD is like that.

Try getting her into talk therapy with a psychologist to root out and address the issues causing the problem, if possible (it's a better long-term solution than drugs). Good luck!


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## Holland73 (Jan 5, 2004)

Big hugs. My ds, who is almost 11, has dealt with issues of anxiety for several years. It's not easy... for him or me. People who do not have struggles with pervasive anxiety, often look at the anxious person as being irrational and believe they should just "get over it." I spend a lot of time advocating for my ds, in addition to educating people about anxiety. 

If you do decide to get your dd back into therapy, I highly recommend finding a clinician that does DBT (Dialectical Behavior Therapy). It combines traditional CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) with mindfulness practices. DBT focuses on not just identifying, understanding and changing, but even more importantly, accepting. Mindfulness practices have been very helpful for my son in helping him to manage (and accept) his anxiety.


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## discalceata (May 27, 2014)

Managing and accepting anxiety - YES. I didn't know that was the name for what my therapist did, but she helped me identify my triggers and also made sure I understood that a panic attack is only a panic attack. Once I stopped fearing panic attacks, they got a lot better. Once I was able to recognize the symptoms, look the panic attack in the face, and just be like, "Oh, a panic attack, ok. No one's ever died of a panic attack so I'll just breathe deep and wait this out" - they got weaker and weaker and eventually quit altogether. I still get anxiety sometimes but I know that's all it is.


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## KimPossible129 (Mar 9, 2007)

Thank you for your helpful responses. I really appreciate it. She is in therapy for a few weeks already, maybe a total of five sessions thus far. I like the therapist so far- she specializes in adolescent females, and works in an all girls HS during the day, so I feel she really has a relatability factor. I will look into DBT and CBT, to get a better understanding of what you're talking about. I am a pediatric nurse, but have no formal/legitimate psych experience (but always found it very interesting). I also teach nursing on the college level, and have noticed in recent years the increased numbers of young adults coming to college with anxiety issues (and as discalceata mentioned) difficulty transitioning to adulthood and independence. She definitely is not ready to grow up, despite her perceived maturity in school and performing arts. She is well spoken, friendly and has common sense (when she wants to). 

I am incredibly open to whatever the experts feel is the appropriate way to handle this, including possible pharmacological solutions. I just hope it doesn't make it worse, and I know the reality of that with some people. She was on meds before and they worked, most likely along with therapy and removal of stressors. But this time I cannot remove high school, or the everyday things she finds stressful (like deciding on what to wear and eat). For lunch today, we took a walk to Subway, because I wanted her to get out of the house and "be with the people" (as she puts it). The decision on which sandwich to get was a very tough one. Basically it gets to the point where she tells me to pick for her, then she tests me by asking me if she can change her mind, at which point I tell her "no". If I give her any wiggle room to make a decision, she has a meltdown.

I have yet to use the term panic attack. I think that makes it more serious I my mind. I know it's serious already, but that term scares me (to admit that my daughter is having them).


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## discalceata (May 27, 2014)

It might actually help to name the panic attack, then. It definitely sounds like she's terrified of responsibility and making choices for herself, and obviously she can't go through life like that. I think with me, it was a fear of making the wrong decision because I felt like the stakes were SO incredibly high that if I made the wrong choice, my entire life would be ruined. Really the best cure for that was making some mistakes, forcing myself to do the scary things, not allowing myself to back out of things, and coming through the other side okay.

I moved to another country for two years as part of this process. I had a huge shaking breakdown in the airport. I collapsed crying on the floor and had to drink myself silly just to get on the plane. When I got there and didn't die, and I HAD to take care of myself, I got more and more adventurous. I went on a roadtrip where I was so terrified of getting killed that I piled all the furniture in the room against the motel room door at night so I could sleep. I wouldn't trade that trip for the world now. I think, actually, that it was on that trip when I started learning to trust myself and be okay.

I'm not saying send her to another country at 14, mind, I'm just saying that she's going to need to learn to take risks and trust herself in order to beat this. Hopefully her counselor is working with her on that. Luck and love to all of you.


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## Holland73 (Jan 5, 2004)

KimPossible129 said:


> She was on meds before and they worked, most likely along with therapy and removal of stressors.


The key isn't to remove stressors. It's about her learning coping strategies to deal and manage the anxiety when the stressors arise. This is what she should be learning in therapy.

Additionally, you can also arrange to meet with her therapist for a collateral session. A collateral session is where you (without your dd) meet with the therapist to discuss some of your struggles with your dd's anxiety and the therapist is able to help you develop tools to assist your dd in managing her anxiety, in addition to providing you with a bit more psycho-education around anxiety. Collateral sessions are an way to get extra support for both you and your dd.

Anxiety is difficult because you are constantly toeing a line... on one hand, you cannot allow her anxiety to take over and need to stop her from pushing it over the ledge. On the other hand, there needs to be some understanding, compassion towards her struggle... but without too much emotion and/or coddling. When my ds starts to get really worked up, I remind him (very clearly and concisely) that his brain is starting to go haywire and he needs to put it back online. Then, I help him to start identifying what tools he can use to help him.

The more emotion/coddling you show to the anxiety... the more power you give to the anxiety. Empower her and express your belief in her ability to not let anxiety rule her life. Separate the anxiety from the person.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

KimP, we are walking in your shoes too. not OCD here but depression AND anxiety. she will start therapy soon and if therapist says we need further therapy and meds - i am totally up for it. dd will be 12 in a few months. puberty hit her hard with her having extreme mood swings (exacerbated by certain food triggers) and depression.

she was such a mess we had to remove some huge triggers last year. her behaviour improved a lot. now she needs help with other triggers.

as she grows older and becomes more aware her anxieties are crippling her. 'virgo worrier' is what she calls herself. the what ifs. so bad that she feels her throat closing and barely able to breathe. this is new and the more she is at her dad's she freaks for no reason. i am able to talk to her on the phone and calm her down. 

her biggest trigger - two different parents, two different parenting philosophies. and her struggle to be caught in between. 

i hope she will talk. she is worried about what the therapist will think of her, she feels terrible about bad mouthing parents... but i told her she needs to get things off her chest. 

i am not afraid of mental illness. i'd of course rather dd not have it, but i no longer am afaid of it. when dd was 3 years old, my meditation teacher shared her journey with her teen bipolar son. and it really changed my life. my philosophy towards MI. my dd will never walk that path alone - if she needs to walk that path.


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## KimPossible129 (Mar 9, 2007)

Holland73 said:


> The key isn't to remove stressors. It's about her learning coping strategies to deal and manage the anxiety when the stressors arise. This is what she should be learning in therapy.
> 
> Additionally, you can also arrange to meet with her therapist for a collateral session. A collateral session is where you (without your dd) meet with the therapist to discuss some of your struggles with your dd's anxiety and the therapist is able to help you develop tools to assist your dd in managing her anxiety, in addition to providing you with a bit more psycho-education around anxiety. Collateral sessions are an way to get extra support for both you and your dd.
> 
> ...


I agree completely about the emotional aspect. It is a balancing act. I know when I am matter of fact about it, it upsets her. But when I show any sort of emotion, it upsets her too. I go back and forth. my therapist spoke to me about this, and I got defensive when she mentioned that I can't let her see my emotions. I am a human being, and she needs to know that I am not callous and cold-hearted about this. So, I balance back and forth. It is getting easier over time, to show concern without acting like an objective party, or a blubbering fool.

As far as her stressors, I don't completely agree. While I know I cannot remove all stressor from her life (she needs to be able to pick out her own clothes, get to school on her own, decide on lunch, etc) the stressor of her father, and the toxic environment she was in needed to be addressed. She became I'll at the thought of going over there, and would shut down if anyone in my family tried to address what was going on over there. If some one is being abused or bullied (whether it be at school, in the workplace or home), at some point, even after effective coping strategies have been learned, a change may be in order. My child definitely needs more effective coping strategies, I won't argue that. I know if she does not develop them, this will continue at other stressful times in her life.


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## KimPossible129 (Mar 9, 2007)

meemee said:


> KimP, we are walking in your shoes too. not OCD here but depression AND anxiety. she will start therapy soon and if therapist says we need further therapy and meds - i am totally up for it. dd will be 12 in a few months. puberty hit her hard with her having extreme mood swings (exacerbated by certain food triggers) and depression.
> 
> she was such a mess we had to remove some huge triggers last year. her behaviour improved a lot. now she needs help with other triggers.
> 
> ...


Wow, this was our life about 4 years ago. The only difference, from what I can tell here, is that my ex was not a co-parent whatsoever. I wouldn't have had the opportunity to talk her out of an anxiety attack over the phone (he would never allow it). Only twice, did he do something semi-intelligent to help de-escalate her. Once, he took her over to his parents (I actually still communicate with them, but at the time, not so much, because they were clueless to the situation at hand). I found this out through CPS. The caseworker was not pleased, because she felt he should have called me (because that's what my DD wanted) and she felt he was cutting her off from me. The second time this happened, he called me, and said I could come pick her up. That was the last time she saw him.

With my dd, I feel there is some depression sprinkled in there, as well as some paranoia. Honestly, I personally don't need a name for it. She even asked me "am I bipolar?" Crippling is also a word we have used (I actually went with paralyzing). She is well aware that his is adversely affecting her life, moreso than four years ago. She is entering HS in the fall. She said to me "am I going to be better by HS?"


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## JamieCatheryn (Dec 31, 2005)

I don't think you are to blame because she lets herself go around you. I think she feels safe enough to let her guard down. Away, she knows she has to hold it together, act normal, do it herself. She has the impression you can fix it for her when you are around, or at least believes you can help carry the burden. She will gain abilities to cope as time goes on, she just needs to feel more independent a bit at a time and have you to talk it out with and will want you to take over when need be. I go kind of OCD and anxiety when I'm overwhelmed, it's gotten better over the years of adulthood though.


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## Holland73 (Jan 5, 2004)

KimPossible129 said:


> As far as her stressors, I don't completely agree. While I know I cannot remove all stressor from her life (she needs to be able to pick out her own clothes, get to school on her own, decide on lunch, etc) the stressor of her father, and the toxic environment she was in needed to be addressed. She became I'll at the thought of going over there, and would shut down if anyone in my family tried to address what was going on over there. If some one is being abused or bullied (whether it be at school, in the workplace or home), at some point, even after effective coping strategies have been learned, a change may be in order. My child definitely needs more effective coping strategies, I won't argue that. I know if she does not develop them, this will continue at other stressful times in her life.


Removing a child from a toxic environment, especially when you are listening/noticing a child's reactions to those visits is NEVER wrong. That's advocating for your child, which is a huge component of being a parent. I wish many of the families I work with were able to advocate for (and listen to) their kiddos like you have been able to for your dd.

You never mentioned any bullying or abuse in your earlier posts (or I just missed them), so those issues didn't even cross my mind when talking about "stressors." I was strictly addressing the stressors of choosing lunch, clothing, etc. that you mentioned in your earlier posts.

We (kids and adults) could all use to learn more healthy coping skills... learning and utilizing healthy coping skills is a life-long process.

Anyway, best of luck to you both. I hope you are both able to find some relief and support.


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## Holland73 (Jan 5, 2004)

KimPossible129 said:


> I agree completely about the emotional aspect. It is a balancing act. I know when I am matter of fact about it, it upsets her. But when I show any sort of emotion, it upsets her too. I go back and forth. my therapist spoke to me about this, and I got defensive when she mentioned that I can't let her see my emotions. I am a human being, and she needs to know that I am not callous and cold-hearted about this. So, I balance back and forth. It is getting easier over time, to show concern without acting like an objective party, or a blubbering fool.


Oh, and the balancing act is one of the hardest things for me as a parent. When the sky would start to get dark and gloomy (we live in the Bay Area, so dark, gloomy fog is inevitable), my ds would start to pace, chew his fingers and express incessant "what-if worries." It was heartbreaking to watch and I'd just hold, comfort and reassure him. Unfortunately, when I did that, it prolonged the situation and often escalated the anxiety. Once I learned from his therapist and my own on how to help him more effectively with these episodes, the fewer and less severe they became. It's been almost a year since he's had a "weather" episode. But, it was (and still is) difficult for me to not react in an overly compassionate and loving manner when he is so clearly in distress.


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## KimPossible129 (Mar 9, 2007)

Holland73 said:


> You never mentioned any bullying or abuse in your earlier posts (or I just missed them), so those issues didn't even cross my mind when talking about "stressors." I was strictly addressing the stressors of choosing lunch, clothing, etc. that you mentioned in your earlier posts.


I was speaking in general terms, not specifically to our situation. The jury is still out on whether or not their was actual abuse going in in her fathers house. If there was, that could take years to come out.

Things are slowly getting better. The fact that school is over is helping a bit, and the periods of indecisiveness are getting easier for me to handle, hence she is becoming less emotional.


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## QueenOfTheMeadow (Mar 25, 2005)

I grew up with anxiety, social and otherwise, that my parents didn't want to address. Their opinion was that if they forced me to "face my fears" I'd get over them. In reality, that only made things worse. I was scared everyday, not only about what my normal triggers, but also what my parents were going to force me to do that day. They never got me help. They, to this day, chalk it up to normal teenage insecurity. So, I think you are way ahead of the game recognizing that your dd is struggling. I want to give you a big hug because you are such a supportive mom.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

QueenOfTheMeadow said:


> I grew up with anxiety, social and otherwise, that my parents didn't want to address. Their opinion was that if they forced me to "face my fears" I'd get over them. In reality, that only made things worse. I was scared everyday, not only about what my normal triggers, but also what my parents were going to force me to do that day. They never got me help. They, to this day, chalk it up to normal teenage insecurity. So, I think you are way ahead of the game recognizing that your dd is struggling. I want to give you a big hug because you are such a supportive mom.


QOTM - i am so sorry to read this (for lack of a better phrase). it really hurts my heart. this is exactly what's going on at ex's place. he is getting even more mean. his attitude is i will tell you nicely the first few times, but if you persist then i will get mean and vicious.

his immediate reaction is anger and yelling.

but alas I cannot remove dd from ex. the thought has entered my mind, but there is a good side to him and dd loves him dearly. and he does in his own way. it just means reduced time with him. but dd gets really upset and down if she doesnt see her dad.

but i hope he gets there's something going on coz he now complains that dd does not want to spend time with him.

for right now i am hoping by the end of this year he could meet the therapist and she would be able to help him parent her. and hopefully he would listen.

KIMP - dd texts a lot. or she goes for a walk and then calls me. yes he does not like it that she talks to me.

HOLLAND - i know what you mean by not being overly compassionate. it drags things longer than usual. i am discovering with dd that silence is best. empathy. just listening.

and then doing something really physical. i cant express how much just a brisk walk has changed for us. dd doesnt really want to go sometimes but i can usually find a reason to go - to pick figs or get a cold drink.


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## KimPossible129 (Mar 9, 2007)

meemee said:


> but alas I cannot remove dd from ex. the thought has entered my mind, but there is a good side to him and dd loves him dearly. and he does in his own way. it just means reduced time with him. but dd gets really upset and down if she doesnt see her dad.
> 
> but i hope he gets there's something going on coz he now complains that dd does not want to spend time with him.
> 
> for right now i am hoping by the end of this year he could meet the therapist and she would be able to help him parent her. and hopefully he would listen.


This is how we started out. I didn't want to take her away from her father, and for many years, she seemed to enjoy going over there. I remember my mom saying "at some point, she will want to spend less time there, because her life is really at your house" (he did not love in the area, school and friends were in my neighborhood). We also knew it was going to have to come from her request, because he was very controlling and would not give in to anything I wanted. It came sooner than we thought, apparently for different reasons.



> HOLLAND - i know what you mean by not being overly compassionate. it drags things longer than usual. i am discovering with dd that silence is best. empathy. just listening.


The dragging of things is very painful. I'm learning the emotional episodes do nothing to solve the issue, And only serve to suck the life out of both of us. By the end of the day (8pm for me) I am ready for bed, just me time.



> i cant express how much just a brisk walk has changed for us. dd doesnt really want to go sometimes but i can usually find a reason to go - to pick figs or get a cold drink.


We are trying this too, just getting out if the house and being physical. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes she 
Gets all nasty and says "where are we going" or "why are we 'just walking"? Then I feel we need to encorporate an activity into it, and that may lead to having to make a decision.


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## KimPossible129 (Mar 9, 2007)

*"Me time" and psychiatrist stress*

Is it selfish of me that I feel like I don have any "me time"? I am the mother of one child- a teen-ager. We went to the beach the other day, with my best friend and her younger kids. At first she was fine win just chillin with us (there were other moms there, friends of my friend). The next oldest kid was an 11 year old girl, who she didn't know, and didn't feel comfortable socializing with (which in previous years she would have done). She wanted to go in the water, I didn't (it was freeeezing). I walked down with her, and watched her go in the water. I stood there, pretending to just be enjoying getting my feet wet. After a while, I just felt like I was with a four year old. I'm tired of being her sole source of entertainment and socialization. She kept looking back to see if I was there. Finally, I motioned to her that I was going back to the chairs. She wasn't upset.

My other best friend says we spend too much time together. My reply is "she is my child, I can't just not, if she has no one else to spend it with". I agree that we do, but honestly, what can I do? She says- just go out. If I need to go to the store or an appointment, I will leave her home alone. But I'm not just going to randomly go out with my husband (for dinner, drinks, etc) and leave her home. Tonight, I made plans with some co workers, and my husband is in a dart team. So I am bringing her to my parents for dinner.

It's not that I feel she can't fend for herself (she'd basically be doing the same thing whether I was home or not, or was at my mothers: surfing the internet and listening to music). I just feel like right now, if I am not with her, or planning daily activities, she would do nothing. She makes little effort to be a teen, and socialize.

Psych stress later, in another post.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

KimPossible129 said:


> But I'm not just going to randomly go out with my husband (for dinner, drinks, etc) and leave her home..


Having had marriage problems that were partly caused by me putting the kids first and DH putting his career first, we now spend one meal a week just the two of us. We know exactly what happens if you go long enough taking your marriage for granted.

I highly recommend making a date time (whatever works for you and your DH) a *weekly *thing once children are past the difficult baby stage (which your DD is). Tending our primary relationship is one of the best things we can do for our children.

You aren't doing her any favors by being so centered on her. Tell her straight out that you and daddy are going on a DATE because that's what couples do. In addition to being good for your marriage, its set a good example for her.

One of my kids has autism and a social anxiety disorder. Her issues are different from your DDs (she could easily pick out a phone, using it to call someone is a completely different issue). Good parenting REQUIRES we take care of ourselves and set boundaries. It also requires we have a little faith in our kids, even when they are struggling.

Next time you have a beach thing planned, tell her to call a friend to go along. If she refuses and then is clingy at the beach, don't coddle her. Tell her that's why you wanted her to bring a friend. She needs clear and repeated messages from you that she can make friends.

The amount of independence and social confidence she develops in the next few years will partly determine how independent and functional she is an adult. It's time to push her a bit. It's time for her to call/text/facebook message friends.


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

I have a couple of pretty extreme introverts who also have a bit of social anxiety, and I'm wondering about the social aspect. A few things have popped out at me: your concern that her friends seem to be unavailable in the summer, your not wanting to leave her home alone because she won't make an effort to "be a teen" and socialize, and your feeling that you need to constantly spend time with her so that she won't be alone.

My kids each went through a couple of years in mid-adolescence where they spent a ton of time alone. As a fellow introvert, I cut them a lot of slack when they seemed to have no social urges whatsoever for months on end. I'm like that when I'm feeling overwhelmed by changes / stress / whatever. That's how introverts cope: they recharge by being alone. Obviously there's a point at which complete social isolation can interfere with the development of social skills and can worsen self-esteem, but within quite broad limits I think that alone-time is good for introverts. It gives them a reliable period of time when they know they won't be subjected to the emotional demands of coping with the social situations that drain them of their energy and resilience. It gives them time to get comfortable with who they are, to process the changes they're going through, to fill up their emotional reserve tanks.

There's a balance to be struck here, but I think it's easy to lean too far on the "socializing is good for you" side of the balance. If you are an introvert who is constantly being nudged to get out with people and have some fun, it's pretty easy to internalize the message that there's something really wrong with you. It's as if people believe there's something so off-kilter about you that you need to be saved from the toxic situation of being alone with yourself. And when the "getting out and having some fun" leaves you emotionally drained, you wonder why fun isn't fun for you. It took me a long time as a teen and young adult to realize that I wasn't a pathetic, sad and socially stunted person because I didn't jump at every opportunity to hang out or go to a party. I tried for quite a while to push myself into social overdrive in the hope that I'd become comfortable with it, but I just found myself feeling crappy a lot of the time and turning to alcohol to ease the stress. Eventually I realized that I have plenty of social skills, and absolutely have fun in social situations of my choosing, but _only if I have a ton of unpressured down-time to recharge_.

I'm not by any means suggesting that this is the root of your dd's problems, or that her anxiety would be cured by letting her cocoon in her bedroom for the next five years. I'm just wondering whether you may be inadvertently sending the message that alone-time is unhealthy to a person to whom alone-time is actually an important part of emotional health. And I also wonder whether accepting that you don't have to rescue your dd from listening to music alone at home might free you up to get some of the personal time and sense of self that you may need.

Miranda


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

KimP - you are doing everything possible for dd. she IS in therapy. you are around her...

but there are two things that stand out for me. 

1. what is her therapist saying? does she need a psychiatrist? does she need medication? teen is one thing but to be in tears over what clothes to buy in a shop is 'more' than normal. perhaps you can talk to her therapist and figure out what is going on. (let me say now that i am not opposed to medication. i was for the longest time. but i see dd's anxieties and i am open to medication if nothing else works. dd cannot go with life the way she is now).

2. oh mama NO. you NEED to take time off for yourself. your needs matter too. you will be HELPING your dd instead of being there for her ALL the time - when its taking its toll on you. you CANNOT let your needs slide. for the sake of your child you really cannot. even if it means she has to stay home alone a few hours once a week - or whatever is right for your family.

friendships change. people change. what you are doing for dd - like the beach with friends - really is dd joining you in your life. i have heard this so much from my dd. ma i am not going to always tag along with you with what you want to do ok?!!! the teach would not be an outing for my dd. i am trying to find activities for dd where she can meet others. her kind of people. 

dd just returned from an overnight camp. she was in an excellent group. she suddenly came across her kind of people - not emotional bullies, but kid who could talk and share commonalities. dd came back looking FANTASTIC. her acne had cleared. her skin was glowing. she was sleeping well. there was a positive air around her. 

my dd is the kind that needs a community. not just teens but also others. she is very popular, but it goes one way. its hard. so many like her, but she only likes a very few. 

we are in the same boat as you. dd and i are spending a LOT of time together. and i can tell - that is not the best thing. some of her friends are traveling. we dont have nice friends in the neighborhood. we have great times together but i can see dd is bored. listless. she needs teens and do some silly things. i have to go find some activities for her. she is different than others. her likes passions are different so its hard for her to find like minded folks. because i get a couple of days off i dont feel like i am missing out on me time. 

but i can definitely say we are getting too much 'us' time. and when dd gets less 'us' time and hangs with the right people, our then limited 'us' time will be much more deeper and profound. if i could afford it i would sign dd up for more camps or classes. but alas that is not the way we can go now. there's a lot of opportunites for youth and dd is not there yet. right now just to break up her day dd is heading off to starbucks to write some. she is at her dad's. 

does your dd volunteer anywhere? 

does she have a mentor kinda person? another adult to hang out with, who knows and understands her?


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## AAK (Aug 12, 2004)

Hi, this might sound ridiculous, and I am not trying to trivialize your situation. I have not been in your shoes. However, my middle child has an extremely difficult time making decisions like those you have mentioned. . . meals, what to wear, etc. One thing that really helped her was we sat down and made a meal schedule for breakfast. . . Mondays = oatmeal, Tuesdays = pancakes, Wednesdays = fruit & yogurt, etc. At the time, she attended public school and making the breakfast decision was crippling her ability to get ready for the day. This schedule (which stayed constant all school year long) helped SO much. She knew what to expect, and it took a decision out of the mix in the morning. She has applied the same technique to other areas of life when possible. She can't schedule everything, but she has found that planning ahead as much as possible enabled her to not have as much on her mind. She functions much better now. 

I am aware that this aspect is just a minor detail in your story. I don't know if it will help. I couldn't not suggest it though. It seems like a simple thing (or not so simple--making the menu took a long time) but it made a big difference in the long run. 

Amy


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## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

My dd1 has anxiety issues and has since she was a baby. (Horrible separation anxiety.) What works for us (and every individual is different, so YMMV) is to take baby steps, but keep moving. She does not get anxious about what to wear (has no anxieties about conforming), but the shopping scenario sounds very familiar nonetheless. She hasn't done that lately, but when she was younger she could get really upset with shopping if we didn't find what we came for. If we went shopping for shoes but didn't find any that were quite right she would just dissolve in a puddle on the floor. She still can get quite despondent and near tears if we need to go to another store for an item, but mostly she has gotten past that.

On the other hand, she is 13 now and I considered it a victory today that she felt comfortable with dd2 and me going to the store 10 minutes before Dh came home and she stayed alone for those 10 minutes. This is new this year. Last year she would have stopped doing whatever she was in the middle of to come with me and would have been in tears if I told her to stay home by herself for 10 minutes. My 10 year old would be delighted at the prospect of staying home alone! So I am thrilled at this baby step of her staying home by herself. I will try to stretch it a little more over the rest of the summer. I don't anticipate DH and I going on a "date night" and leaving the kids home alone anytime soon, but I think we will be able to run some quick errands soon without her and she will feel comfortable with that.

With dd1 I need to know when to nudge her a little bit and when things really are too much for her. I like to use the analogy of a child afraid of swimming to describe the way I approach her anxiety. If I were to throw her in the deep end and tell her to learn to swim on her own, she would completely lose it and be scarred and scared of water for the rest of her life. On the other hand, if I let her give into her fear of swimming and told her she didn't have to get near the water, she would also be afraid of swimming for the rest of her life. What I have to do is persuade her to put her toes in, maybe just the pinky toe on her left foot at first, and slowly but surely get the rest of her in too. It can be excruciatingly slow going at times, but as long as we're making progress even incrementally we'll be all right.

I am running into more of the blah, depressed, teen this summer. She is staying in her room more just doing nothing. I have had the kids make a list of stuff they'd like to do this summer and I'm using that as a jumping off point for days when they seem bored. I'm trying to keep them from getting sucked into the doldrums and kitties on the internet. I am also trying to facilitate her getting together with her friends. She doesn't have a whole lot of friends, either, but she definitely does need to hang around with someone besides just family. Getting out of the house is definitely good.

One book suggestion I'd like to make is "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. Dd1 has never been too explosive (more imploding on herself and less lashing out at others), but some of his ideas and techniques have really informed my parenting. Check it out at http://www.livesinthebalance.org/parents-families . He does not really approach it from an anxiety perspective, but I think his approach can help with that, too, so you don't end up in tears for hours in the store.


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## KimPossible129 (Mar 9, 2007)

I've been off line for a few days, so there's a lot to catch up on here. I am happy (yet a bit overwhelmed) to see all of the responses and suggestions. It's been a rough few days. We did an overnight to the jersey shore (all three of us) and it was bittersweet. Ups and downs. But I felt like we needed it, to get out of the house and to all be together.



AAK said:


> Hi, this might sound ridiculous, and I am not trying to trivialize your situation. I have not been in your shoes. However, my middle child has an extremely difficult time making decisions like those you have mentioned. . . meals, what to wear, etc. One thing that really helped her was we sat down and made a meal schedule for breakfast. . . Mondays = oatmeal, Tuesdays = pancakes, Wednesdays = fruit & yogurt, etc. At the time, she attended public school and making the breakfast decision was crippling her ability to get ready for the day. This schedule (which stayed constant all school year long) helped SO much. She knew what to expect, and it took a decision out of the mix in the morning. She has applied the same technique to other areas of life when possible. She can't schedule everything, but she has found that planning ahead as much as possible enabled her to not have as much on her mind. She functions much better now.
> 
> I am aware that this aspect is just a minor detail in your story. I don't know if it will help. I couldn't not suggest it though. It seems like a simple thing (or not so simple--making the menu took a long time) but it made a big difference in the long run.
> 
> Amy


I actually have thought of this, creating a schedule. I don't want it to come across as child-like to her, but I feel like sometimes we don't have enough structure. Over the last week or so, meals have gotten better. I am not a huge cooking person, especially in the summer. My husband works crazy hours, so sometimes it's just the two of us for dinner.

I've discussed with her planning out clothing for the week, or at the very least, the night before. Her incessant need to wait until the last minute to make a decision (thus subjecting herself to torture) is holding her back to committing to anything before she absolutely has to. I have needed to resort to actual time limits on making a decision (which still doesn't work). Perhaps, at some point we can get to a schedule/chart type of thing.


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## KimPossible129 (Mar 9, 2007)

meemee said:


> KimP - you are doing everything possible for dd. she IS in therapy. you are around her...
> 
> but there are two things that stand out for me.
> 
> 1. what is her therapist saying? does she need a psychiatrist? does she need medication? teen is one thing but to be in tears over what clothes to buy in a shop is 'more' than normal. perhaps you can talk to her therapist and figure out what is going on. (let me say now that i am not opposed to medication. i was for the longest time. but i see dd's anxieties and i am open to medication if nothing else works. dd cannot go with life the way she is now.


Therapy- she (therapist) sees the whole thing as a real concern. She said her thoughts are irrational (about what prevents her from making decisions). I like her a lot. My dd is talking to her and not coming out crying or in a bad mood, so to me this is a good thing.

The psychiatrist thing has been a nightmare. We all agree that meds would be a good thing to try (she was on them a few years back). Finding a psychiatrist that accepts new patients, my insurance and can see her in the next three months has been almost impossible. I was fighting back tears over the phone when the receptionist said "we can see her in OCTOBER". (This is an outpatient department of a major mental health facility, with an entire peds/adolescent department, not just one doctor seeing all patients). I pulled some personal/professional strings and we have an appointment for next week).

My dd feels that she would like to be able to do this without meds, but is willing to take them. Her therapist said this is a very good thing because most kids are unwilling to.


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## KimPossible129 (Mar 9, 2007)

> 2. oh mama NO. you NEED to take time off for yourself. your needs matter too. you will be HELPING your dd instead of being there for her ALL the time - when its taking its toll on you. you CANNOT let your needs slide. for the sake of your child you really cannot. even if it means she has to stay home alone a few hours once a week - or whatever is right for your family.
> 
> friendships change. people change. what you are doing for dd - like the beach with friends - really is dd joining you in your life. i have heard this so much from my dd. ma i am not going to always tag along with you with what you want to do ok?!!! the teach would not be an outing for my dd. i am trying to find activities for dd where she can meet others. her kind of people.
> 
> ...


To address a few things- we spend WAY too much time together, without a doubt. I am Home ALL summer. We will be at camp for a week (I will be working, she will be the equivelant of a CIT for her age). We will see each other passing through the camp, but not directly working together). She also has two more (separate) weeks in theatre camps (day ony). That is all I can afford, and she was initially resistant to this much time spent in structured activities. She is okay with it now.

Regarding me time, I am doing my best to create that balance. She is an only child who was essentially abandoned by her father, and in her opinion, he chose his gf over her. I don't like the term abandoned; it makes her sound so damaged. But it is the truth. I will never know how that feels to have a parent choose to walk out of my life at 10 years old. I do explain. To her that I need time with my husband, but I need to tread lightly, as I know in her mind it is a competition. She used to ask me who I loved more. She is very clingy and starving for love. I seriously could not give her anymore if I tried.

Yes, her social life revolves around mine, because she makes little effort to create her own. I can't say to her "I'm going to the. Each with my friends and their kids, why don't you stay home?" The one friend she would consider asking to join her was away, so it was just us.

Her passion and interests are very different than her peers as well. She said she wishes she had someone who really could relate to her more. She is not a fashionista, not a One Direction fan, not into sports (like every kid We know is into). Her passion is theatre- plays, movies, musicals, actors, actresses, etc. her life revolves around it; she's a performer and an avid spectator.

Last week, she met up with her friend (who is into that as well) and I was able to go out with some colleagues for dinner. I had made the plans before she had something to do, so it worked out well.


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

KimPossible129 said:


> I can't say to her "I'm going to the beach with my friends and their kids, why don't you stay home?"


I'm curious why not? I do this from time to time with my various kids. They like it; they feel I have confidence in them and they relish the alone time and independence.

Maybe I'm missing something.

Miranda


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## KimPossible129 (Mar 9, 2007)

moominmamma said:


> I'm curious why not? I do this from time to time with my various kids. They like it; they feel I have confidence in them and they relish the alone time and independence.
> 
> Maybe I'm missing something.
> 
> Miranda


Yeah, you're missing something. She would take it as, I don't want her there. That I don't want to be with her. If it were dinner and drinks with just the adults, I would tell her "no I don't want you there." But she would be very upset/offended if it were a child-friendly atmosphere. I wish she would say "I'm too cool to go with you" but we're just not there yet.

Recently, hubby and I wanted to take a walk, just to get out of the house. She was still lying in bed, I told her we'll be back in about an hour. She got very upset. I told her she could come if she wanted to, but I really didn't want her to. I told her I don't want her there if she is going to complain about the fact that we are just walking, with no real destination. She got even more upset. We went without her.

Very timely (and coincidentally) a colleague just sent this out via email (to everyone, not just me).

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/29/opinion/sunday/why-teenagers-act-crazy.html?_r=0


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

KimPossible129 said:


> Regarding me time, I am doing my best to create that balance. She is an only child who was essentially abandoned by her father, and in her opinion, he chose his gf over her. I don't like the term abandoned; it makes her sound so damaged. But it is the truth. I will never know how that feels to have a parent choose to walk out of my life at 10 years old. I do explain.


HUGS!!! we are almost in the same boat. once dd's awareness grew around 10 she felt abandoned which has lead to many more issues including depression. the thing is he IS there physically, but not really. she is now reducing her time from her dad and soon wants to make the switch to just a dinner out with her dad or not.

she feels terrible. she feels sad for him and herself. but she realises she HAS to do this for herself or else she 'wont make it'.

dd feels her dad chooses anybody over her. his gf, himself....

we had a huge 'talk' with one of my gfs this weekend and it all came to head. for her own sanity she has to reduce her time with her dad.

i came from a happy fully present parents family so i cant really fathom what she is going through.

all i know because of her perspective - because of this underlying sadness - everything else is a little more heigtened. so while - if all things were equal - she might have found strength in her uniquenss, she instead finds it being very alone.

yet the right person - just one other person, can make such a huge difference to her. i cant remember if i am repeating this but she met her 'twin' in a sleepaway camp and wow what a change. what a change i saw in her.

good luck with your appointment. glad you could pull some strings. hoping that will help with the struggles of everyday life.


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## KimPossible129 (Mar 9, 2007)

*Update: still hanging in there :/*

I took a self-imposed break from here, because part of me is saddened when I read the discussion. I am grateful for the replies and advice, but sometimes it's hard, when you know thus is YOUR problem, not someone else's. But it is a relief to see others have similar issues.

In the last five weeks, we've been to a psychiatrist twice, and was diagnosed with anxiety AND depression. I was surprised, but not. Many of her behaviors suggested it, but it just didn't come ct the dots for some reason. I was more ok when it was just anxiety: my brother committed suicide many years ago. We had no idea that he was suffering, until it was too late. This made me feel even more protective if her, not wanting to leave her alone, worried about everything I said, that could potentially set her off.

We had to deal with insurance approvals and pediatricians clearance issues to get started on medication. I felt like every time we were close to making progress, there was another hurdle. It's only been two weeks now, and for those who are familiar with these meds, they take a while to kick in. My daughter is 'waiting', but was well informed that a) you're not going to feel this magical surge of wellness, and b) you will need to put in some work to help yourself along with the meds. She starts school in 2 weeks, and that is her biggest concern. We have a lot to do in those two weeks though specifically shopping and a summer reading assignment. Her Psy and the therapist said the procrastination (that she has been doing for months now) is part of the depression and anxiety. She is still having trouble making decisions- the minor ones have been easier, but choosing a book to read and outfits for a new school/environment are just too much for her to handle right now.

This has taken a toll on me more over the last few weeks, more recently this week. I have to start work again soon, and part of me is thrilled that I will have something more to do, but part of me is worried that I will not be able to balance it all. I'm supposed to be starting my semester in grad school, and am seriously considering taking a break. I was supposed to be working on a paper all summer, and my head is just not in it. I have very little "me time" and the last thing I want to do is stress over this paper, which I need to pass to continue in the program.

Regarding work, The last time we went through this, my boss wasn't exactly as understanding as I had hoped. I had just started this job, and I felt like the vibe was "great, we hired this woman with issues". So yeah, I'm not so willing to go in and be forthcoming with what's going on. Yet, if it were a physical issues (like diabetes or cancer) I just feel like there would be more understanding (and I work with medical professionals, btw). With all of the recent talk about mental illness (after Robin Williams' passing), you'd think that I'd feel a little better about it. But honestly all I feel is that I will be judged on my abilities as a parent. I know it sounds dumb, but we all do it. Any time we go out, and my daughter is having trouble making a decision, she gets nasty. It happened at Starbucks this week. The looks I get are typical of our society- "if that were my kid, I'd never let her talk to me like that." I can't wear a sign that says 'she's not just a nasty teen, she's depressed and anxious too'. Like that would help; it would be my fault, I'm sure.

If I do decide to drop my class, I have to sit out for a year. I also will be obligated to explain myself, which I really don't want to do. There is a connection between school and work, and I just don't want everyone knowing my business. I'm not the type of person that wants attention drawn to me.

Looking at the bright side of things: I am learning more and more what is troubling her, what things bother her the most. Sadly, I can't fix these things, but at least I know them. She is still very clingy, even moreso. Terrified of being rejected. Asks me multiple times a day if I love her. It gets annoying after a while, and she is very conscious of the wat I answer. If I sound bothered, she is upset. I PC I sound too chipper, she is suspicious, that I am being phony. She is Up my ass, even if I go in the other room. Almost stalker-like. If I try to get close, in any way to my husband, she is right there (even if it's just going in the other room to chill with him. She insists that he doesn't like her. Okay, back to "bright side".. To be continued...


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## KimPossible129 (Mar 9, 2007)

*Bright side*

She's been making more friend connections. She is going to the beach with a friend today. Im glad that they (friend and family) invited her; usually it falls on me, and I am the one taking them. She can't cling to me today!

We went to an amusement park overnight this week. She took a friend, and they actually went off and did their own thing. We got rained out the second day, and found a mall on the way home. They went off on their own, and she had an issue making a decision about a purchase. Her friend made the purchase (of the same item) and she couldn't, got embarrassed and we cut the mall trip short. She then brought it up again- not sure why, since it would only prove to upset her, and there was nothing I could say to help her at this point.

The other positive is that her two weeks at separate camps were very good. Clearly, the structure is a good thing for her; a reason to wake up and no real decisions to make. She was forced to go with the flow. She has another week of structure this week- a theatre workshop. And, the one other thing that makes her happy (going to the theatre as a spectator/fan) was incorporated into the last few weeks. Thank God we have that.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

KimP honestly I don't know how you would juggle work AND grad school. I would do one or the other. Since u need time to urself I would definitely not ignore that. U can't be so stretched out. I notice I myself go thru a lot of emotional feelings myself that really SAP my strength. For me I think its more about dealing with society too.

But like your dd I noticed the huge change in dd when she is doing something she enjoys. Even though she felt she wasn't doing as well as the class. This time she also went exploring on her own which gave her huge confidence. 

is ur dd going to do talk therapy too? Some form of cbt?

One thing I have discovered is how easily I can get myself pulled down myself. 

I find that her basic needs also includes mentors and alternative sports where she needs to do inner work, inner challenges. She is more a climbing kid rather than soccer kid. 

I almost feel parenting is so different now. Anything before was such a piece of Cake.


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## KimPossible129 (Mar 9, 2007)

I made the decision to take time off from school. I explained my situation to the chairperson, as well as my boss at work. They were both very understanding. Again, I hate the stigma that goes with this type of illness, but I also felt really dumb that I felt I embarrassed about sharing it. I'm glad that's out of the way. Now, I can't wait to get the trickle-down from everyone else; friends, family, colleagues and classmates... Oh well, it's my life, my problem and my decision. So yeah, dealing with society for me is sometimes tough too.



meemee said:


> is ur dd going to do talk therapy too? Some form of cbt? [/quote
> 
> Pardon my ignorance, but talk therapy? I'm not savvy on the different lingo here. How is this different than "regular therapy"? Interestingly,mthe psychiatrist said it doesn't matter what type of therapy she is doing with the therapist. As long as there is actual dialogue, and there is a good rapport. There is definitely a good rapport. What I seem to see is the focusing on strategies to help her with specific issues. For example, she needed to choose a book for her summer reading assignment for school. Choose ONE book, off a lost of about 25. This is exact what she she gets anxious about. They worked of how to approach this, and the feelings surrounding it, and the feelings about not choosing or considering the other books. She always feels like she be missing out on something if she doesn't choose the other thing.
> 
> ...


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

KimPossible129 said:


> Pardon my ignorance, but talk therapy?


I think meemee just means traditional therapy which involves talking with the therapist about one's feelings, as opposed to just pharmacologic treatment. CBT refers to cognitive behavioural therapy, a particular style of therapy. Whether your dd's therapist explicitly subscribes to that "method," it sounds like she's using ideas that fall under that umbrella (of identifying particular feelings and issues, and developing specific tactics for dealing with them). Rapport is what matters most, though, I agree with your psychiatrist.

I think that you have made a very good decision to take time off from school and to disclose to your boss as well. Congrats on moving forward in an empowered way towards coping and healing, for both you and your dd.

Miranda


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## OrmEmbar (Oct 25, 2012)

I just want to say thank you to the OP for initiating and to everyone for all the responses. This thread has been incredibly helpful for me to sort through some of the stuff going on in my own home.

: )


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## AuntNi (Feb 26, 2003)

I'm so glad things are getting a little better - it sounds like you're all taking positive steps. I so empathize with what you're going through! My DD (also always an anxious child) has been struggling with depression and anxiety since last Thanksgiving, but it's been terrible since spring break. She's been in therapy over the summer, which I think has helped. She has stopped self-harming, and is now letting her feelings out in hours-long sobbing sessions. School is only a week in, but so far, so good.

I also have been suffering from anxiety due to spending every free minute with her. I feel desperate for some grown-up time, but have been scared she would do more self-harm if left alone to stew. I didn't realize how bad it was until my husband went for drinks with our new (mutual) friend without me - while I took DD to her therapy. I am still angry at him, and it was three weeks ago. 

The life-changing thing that helped the most was signing DD up for a community theater production. She met other kids who share her creative talents, and received so much positive feedback that is has helped her self-esteem a bit. It was very friendly to our work schedule, and not at all expensive. Is that something that is available in your community? 

I do hope your DD's meds kick in soon, and she has a good beginning to the school year. How are her teachers? Does she have new classmates?


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

thanks Miranda for explaining. yeah that's exactly what i meant. i didnt understand 'traditional' therapy KimP and i am also recovering from a horrible article about a local Giant health company ignoring mental health patients and not allowing them 'talk' therapy (where i just heard the term recently).

i am thrilled for you that dd is getting coping skills and figuring out how to navigate life. 

i am even more thrilled that you are realising how much help you yourself need. i know you are smarting at dh but its great that he got a break. its time for you to get one too. :smile: with or without friends. i have walked in your shoes and suffered from high blood pressure which got better once i took better care of myself. even today i love, just love going for movies on my own. 

AuntNi - we are going through life changing moments too. in fact i just wrote to dd's counselor how being involved in a film making organization is really changing dd's life. compared to last year dd is involved in many more events she is passionate about. just keeping her busy - not too busy is paying off.

also another life changing event is me pushing dd into a couple of activities she would not go into on her own. i made her sign up for it. in the beginning she was hesitant, but then she really got into it and got the hang of it and now finds it a challenge. 

this year is the first year i've been able to sign up dd for a bunch of different things. being excited and passionate about things is kinda like preventative medicine. hopefully it will make her crisis situations happen less often, and that she can accept others for who they are instead of hoping they were someone else. her counsellor had offered that dd should see someone every week as a prevention to crisis happening. but dd declined. 

suddenly because of homeschool, dd is surrounded by a lot of supporting persons who inspire her. she is finding more her kinda person crossing her path. people who are complimenting her on her strengths and helping her with her weaknesses coz of course ma is biased and should not be believed :eyesroll

now all we need to do is find a medical doctor who is nice and patient and who can answer a lot of dd's questions and we are set. she is a big dr house fan and wants to be a diagnostician just like him. 

Thank you OrmEmbar for the feedback. i find it really helpful. its the reason i write such lengthy replies.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

KimP personally i find life for a teen far more stressful now than when i was a teen.

i did not have to deal with two different households. the need to fit in was not so intense.

but more than anything, i am not as sensitive as dd is. some of the kind of barbs that hurt her are like water off a duck's back for me. i sometimes kinda feel bad because i cant relate to her. 

because of her personality and her issues with her dad, she needs me more than i needed my mother.


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## KimPossible129 (Mar 9, 2007)

AuntNi said:


> I also have been suffering from anxiety due to spending every free minute with her. I feel desperate for some grown-up time, but have been scared she would do more self-harm if left alone to stew. I didn't realize how bad it was until my husband went for drinks with our new (mutual) friend without me - while I took DD to her therapy. I am still angry at him, and it was three weeks ago.
> 
> The life-changing thing that helped the most was signing DD up for a community theater production. She met other kids who share her creative talents, and received so much positive feedback that is has helped her self-esteem a bit. It was very friendly to our work schedule, and not at all expensive. Is that something that is available in your community?
> 
> I do hope your DD's meds kick in soon, and she has a good beginning to the school year. How are her teachers? Does she have new classmates?


I am feeling anxious and depressed myself, more and more (while she is making some slight gains over the past few weeks). I really feel like I have very little "me" time. And when I do, I am very mopey and on edge. Today is one of those days (everyone is home, but even before she woke up, I felt on-edge with my husband. Like you, he has an escape, it seems. For me to just go out with the girls doesn't seem to work out. Everyone else has their kids and schedules).

Theatre is her saving grace! She just finished her second week of a camp/workshop, which was great for her. It kept her structured, happy and busy (and subsequently tired) for the week. She saw a broadway show during the week... All smiles and goofiness! She did a great Job in the showcase at the end of the week. I'm in the process of finding something for the fall for her, but don't want to go overboard with too much of a commitment, since she needs to adjust to HS. Sadly here, it is not (what I consider) cheap. But she really does nothing else, and I feel like it is worth it, if she is happy and enjoying it. The only other thing she asks for are tickets to shows. She doesn't ask for high-end clothing, she doesn't do any sports, and she is in public school.

We live in NYC, and school doesn't start until the middle of next week (after Labor Day). I'm feeling better about her transitioning, especially since she did these two weeks of workshops, and still has the ability to make friends and socialize fairly well (especially if they are into theatre).


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## KimPossible129 (Mar 9, 2007)

meemee said:


> KimP personally i find life for a teen far more stressful now than when i was a teen.
> 
> i did not have to deal with two different households. the need to fit in was not so intense.
> 
> ...


I feel the exact same way, Except I was pretty sensitive as a child too. Not like her, but I cried a lot, and my feelings were hurt easily. Now, I am not, I let things roll off of me (I don't have high expectations for very many ppl in my life). But I was not as needy as my dd. She demands a lot of emotional and physical attention. She probably has said "I love you" to me more in her first 10 years than I have in my 40 to my mother. I love my mom, I did not say it and show it like my dd does. But then again, my dad was under the same roof for my entire childhood.

I wish I knew why kids today (in general) demand more of this love and coddling. Mine does more than others, I see (and clearly she has a diagnosis and a history of disappointments), but they are just raised very differently than we were.


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## KimPossible129 (Mar 9, 2007)

moominmamma said:


> I think meemee just means traditional therapy which involves talking with the therapist about one's feelings, as opposed to just pharmacologic treatment. CBT refers to cognitive behavioural therapy, a particular style of therapy. Whether your dd's therapist explicitly subscribes to that "method," it sounds like she's using ideas that fall under that umbrella (of identifying particular feelings and issues, and developing specific tactics for dealing with them). Rapport is what matters most, though, I agree with your psychiatrist.
> 
> Miranda


After I replied last time, I thought that maybe talk was considered an alternate to play therapy. When she was 10-11, much of her therapy was done through drawing and games. She would barely talk back then. I'm pleased that she is able to speak now. Even at 14, with a good vocabulary and general comfort around adults, she sometimes freezes up in there. But that's to be expected.


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## jr37 (Sep 23, 2014)

Hello:
I have read almost all of the post in this string and would like to address this post first of all, since I believe it holds the key to all of the issues with your DD.


KimPossible129 said:


> I was more ok when it was just anxiety: my brother committed suicide many years ago. We had no idea that he was suffering, until it was too late. This made me feel even more protective if her, not wanting to leave her alone, worried about everything I said, that could potentially set her off.


I am not a professional therapist or doctor but did just enough work on myself and my own messed up life to see what I consider a big RED flag here. Has any therapist or professional suggested that you may have unresolved pain and grief over your brother's suicide which is CONTAMINATING your relationship with your DD? IMO, and experience, old unhealed emotional wounds can and do influence and contaminate much of our life long after the trauma or painful event and can really mess up any relationship the grieving person is in. It might be simplistic or even irrelivant but I'd talk with a therapist about any potential lingering feelings from the death of your brother.



> She is still having trouble making decisions- the minor ones have been easier, but choosing a book to read and outfits for a new school/environment are just too much for her to handle right now.


I am a middle child and my parents programmed me to be very passive and leave ALL decisions up to my older brother or them. I was discouraged from thinking for myself and had a dread fear of making a mistake which would activate retaliation, punishment or ridicule from my brother and parents. I was programmed to be: anxious, frightened, helpless, lazy, submissive and generally exhibit OCD behaviors. I often believed that my indecisions and wish-washiness were some kind of Libra thing but now I can see that it's about BAD, CRIPPLING PARENTING. I'm getting over it though, LOL.



> Any time we go out, and my daughter is having trouble making a decision, she gets nasty. It happened at Starbucks this week. The looks I get are typical of our society- "if that were my kid, I'd never let her talk to me like that." I can't wear a sign that says 'she's not just a nasty teen, she's depressed and anxious too'. Like that would help; it would be my fault, I'm sure.


IMO, 99.99% of my unsatisfactory behavior was a direct reaction to the way my parents treated me and if they had wore a sign it might have said: "He's a nasty kid because of our unique parenting skills, so mind your own damned business!" IMO, assigning "fault" does not usually lead to meaningful solutions. It could be said that I was as much to blame as my parents but I at least know that they had more power and entitlement to shape my mind and feelings than I ever had to shape my own until I finally left home to go to work on undoing the damages that they did to me when I had no defense or even a Defender such as a therapist.



KimPossible129 said:


> My 14-year old is struggling with anxiety issues lately. She was in therapy a few years back, around the age of 10-11, for OCD behaviors. After about a year of therapy and medications, it seemed to resolve itself. I always knew it could rear its' ugly head again, and it has.


Have you ever considered therapy and counseling for your self? Exactly how did her earlier therapy resolve things?



> As a parent, you know your kid, and I knew something was wrong.


I honestly do not believe that. I see it all the time where parents DO NOT know their own kids and express such surprise or RAGE when their kids do something the parent did not expect or does not understand! My parents didn't know me at all - even if they ignorantly believed they did.



> The problem I am struggling with this time, is that she is now a TEEN with anxiety. Ages 12 and 13 were really good years, considering what a lot of teens (and parents) go through.


I don't know what you mean with "what a lot of teens (and parents) go through." But in my experience, I went through a lot of very difficult times with my parents because they made life pretty difficult and FRIGHTENING during that time. They were the problem more than me!



> At 14, however, she has developed teen characteristics (aka attitude) that work it's way in, in between her being scared, unconfident, paranoid and hysterical at times.


I developed "teen characteristics" in response and reaction to very complicated and oppressive behaviors of my parents more than any other factor. They were not happy with each other and acted very abuise or negligent with us kids. It's sad that so few parents can acknowledge that their kid's "characteristic" behaviors are the direct consequence of inadequate or faulty parenting and I will say it because it was TRUE for me. I was basically the product of very bad parenting which would have been labeled "typical teen" behavior!



> Worries about being over-dressed, under-dressed, what will everyone say? I know teens typically worry about this stuff, but what she does to herself is torturous.


When I shopped with or mom (dad NEVER took us shopping for anything!), it was HELL! She was very demanding, impatient and sometimes abusive so I was utterly terrified of making mistakes by buying something she disliked or spent TOO much $$ on. I am still a little edgy to this day about using money FOOLISHLY or making mistakes in stores. I am no longer a frightened, oppressed little kid but the parental programming is still very strong thanks to our oppressive, abusive parents. I am not ACCUSING you of damaging your child but it's just something to think about and it might help both of you for you to stop using terms like: teens typically, typical nasty teen, and other very wrong labels that parents typically paste on teens and kids in general. 
IMO, teens are "typically" the way they have been programmed to be.



> And I can't let her sit in the house and rot.v
> Or die as your brother did?
> 
> 
> ...


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## KP2 (Oct 3, 2014)

*Update: highs and lows*

It's been a while since I posted; one reason being that I could not get back in under my original screen name- this is the OP with a new account. The other reason being that I have been very busy dealing with life's issues.

To the last poster, who apparently took quite some time to respond: all I can say is than you for validating and confirming every single fear I have: that her problems are a result of things I have done, said, and the way I parent her. Up until this post, I felt like this was a place where I could openly express things (mind you, no one can ever get the full picture of our situation via a message board), which is something I cannot get in the real world from my friends and family. I'm tired of being told (by well meaning friends, colleagues and family) about what I 'just have to do' to deal with her (as if she is a four year old brat who just doesn't want to listen). I stopped reading about halfway through, because honestly, I didn't find what you had to say very helpful (and I did read part of this about two months ago, when things were better than they are now). I do not know anything about you as a parent, but all I can say is that I pray that you are never in a situation (as a parent) where your child is suffering in this way, and someone may suggest to you that your child's mental condition is a result of things you have done. Whether or not I have contributed to it or not, it is hurtful to hear, especially from a stranger with (admittedly) no professional background.

And unless you have lost a close relative to suicide, you absolutely cannot speak to my feelings (unresolved or otherwise) about this. I have a depressed and anxious child. I am well within my right to be scared that this can happen to her. Any parent should be aware of warning signs, if there are any indications of feelings of worthlessness.

Having said that, I am becoming less and less confident in my abilities as a parent right now. I feel helpless. AND, I have help. We are knee deep in therapy, meds are being adjusted, we even took a visit to the psych ED one evening. All parties involved know the details and events that may or may not be a factor in her feelings. She was responding well to the combination of meds and therapy at first; when school started things were looking very good. She was making decisions easily, traveling to school with confidence, making friends easily. Things have shifted since then, especially in the friends department. There have been a few incidences where she has just looked, sounded and acted pathetic in social situations. She has come home sick from school twice, yesterday was the second time. She did not want to go today. Up until this, the therapist and psych have said if she is going to school with no problems, then this is a good sign that she is functional. Other incidences (one of which landed us in the ER) were outbursts related to anxiety and obsessive thoughts. When she gets herself into these situations, there is nothing I can do to help her. She has made (what I consider to be) idle threats of self-harm, what I believe were part of her obsessive thoughts (uncontrollably thinking out loud), but I do take them seriously.

The last thing to surface was last night. We decided that we would turn off the phone for the evening (part of the issue regarding friends obviously stems with electronic communication, and her inability to refrain from certain people and conversations). She was doing her HW, and at some point, she started writing in a notebook. She left it here this morning. It is not a current school book, rather a book about her thoughts, written semi-poetically. Her thoughts are very sad, is all I can say. I'm not at all surprised, honestly. I need to act on this new finding.


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

KP2 said:


> To the last poster, who apparently took quite some time to respond: all I can say is than you for validating and confirming every single fear I have: that her problems are a result of things I have done, said, and the way I parent her. Up until this post, I felt like this was a place where I could openly express things (mind you, no one can ever get the full picture of our situation via a message board), which is something I cannot get in the real world from my friends and family. I'm tired of being told (by well meaning friends, colleagues and family) about what I 'just have to do' to deal with her (as if she is a four year old brat who just doesn't want to listen). I stopped reading about halfway through, because honestly, I didn't find what you had to say very helpful (and I did read part of this about two months ago, when things were better than they are now).


I don't have time to post much now, but I did want to encourage you to completely ignore what that last post says. The poster is a childless adult who, by his own admission, suffered under extremely abusive parenting and family dysfunction through his entire upbringing. He posted a lot of horribly unsupportive and unhelpful stuff at the end of September, and had at least one post removed for UA violations. I don't think his observations have any relevance in the context of a caring family environment.

Miranda


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

KP please ignore previous posters comments. i second all miranda said. 

i am in the throes of this myself. 

been talking to other parents as well as our counsellor and other friend counsellor.

one thing they all have said is how common this is during the teen years. i know so many teens going through stuff and needing medication. its taken a while for all the kids to settle in with medication and talk therapy. 

it is such a struggle for me. our relationship is evolving and i have to let dd work through some of her feelings. even if they are sad. 

i recall so many moms here talking about how teens was the hardest time. some of the things cleared up, but some continued but seems like maturity gave them better coping skills. 

i have made sure dd has a counsellor who will follow her all the way through high school. so many of the consellors tell me they wished more kids looked for help. 

hormones really throw our kids in a tizzle. though it isnt as simple as that.


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## Annaintoronto (Nov 9, 2014)

I'm pretty new here, but I just wanted to send a hug. 
And an, I get it, and people who have typical kids don't get 
What it's like parenting kids with challenges, and their advice
While being well-meaning, is often misguided.
Anna
Oh, and that other poster was way outta line forget about it


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## QueenOfTheMeadow (Mar 25, 2005)

jr37 said:


> Hello:
> I have read almost all of the post in this string and would like to address this post first of all, since I believe it holds the key to all of the issues with your DD.
> 
> I am not a professional therapist or doctor but did just enough work on myself and my own messed up life to see what I consider a big RED flag here. Has any therapist or professional suggested that you may have unresolved pain and grief over your brother's suicide which is CONTAMINATING your relationship with your DD? IMO, and experience, old unhealed emotional wounds can and do influence and contaminate much of our life long after the trauma or painful event and can really mess up any relationship the grieving person is in. It might be simplistic or even irrelivant but I'd talk with a therapist about any potential lingering feelings from the death of your brother.
> ...


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## Garblad6 (Mar 24, 2015)

I think that sometimes it is better to talk with your child or to find a good psychologist whi will make a talk therapy.


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## narko̱tiká (Mar 25, 2015)

One of the most common behaviors seen as part of an anxiety situation is avoidance. In a situation of real threat. Avoidance is very helpful, as the fight-flight-freeze response keeps us safe from danger. In other situations where there is no real danger, avoidance prevents children and adults from learning to cope with a challenging situation.


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