# Yelling



## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

Often I read threads in which mamas confess - usually with sadness and guilt - to losing their cool and yelling at their kids.

I guess I'm just not a yeller, and I have to admit, this always surprises me a bit. I don't remember my own parents ever yelling at me, so maybe that has something to do with it. (They were far from perfect parents, but just not aggressive or angry with us). I imagine if a person grows up exposed to that kind of behavior it's a lot easier to fall prey to doing it yourself when under a lot of stress.

I know we are all gentle parents on this forum, so I realize that we mamas aren't yelling with intention or forethought, but more just in a momentary loss of control. That's pretty easy to understand.

Looking back, I honestly don't remember ever yelling at dd. I know it would just devastate me with guilt if I did. Of course, there are a lot of years of contrary behavior up ahead so we'll just have to see if I can come back in one year or five or ten and still say the same thing







.

How is this issue for you and your kids? Is this something that you struggle with?


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## abac (Mar 10, 2005)

I've yelled a few times out of frustration. I don't beat myself up about it. I apologize to ds, explain that I was frustrated but shouldn't have yelled. I look at the situation and figure out what I could have done differently.

Whining is a trigger for me as I recently discovered. After a couple of whiny days with ds, I got very good at taking deep breaths and asking ds to talk in his "normal voice." He is great at switching to a pleasant voice as soon as I ask.

I find it very helpful to take deep breaths and be mindful. I try to recognize when I am getting frustrated and voice that, which I usually do by saying, "This is why people beat their kids." For me, saying this aloud really helps put things in perspective and allows me to look at the situation objectively and get calm.

So, no it's not a big issue for us, but one that's popped up on occasion.


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## jkg (May 28, 2005)

I was yelled at quite a bit as a kid, so when I get frustrated with DS, the first thing I want to do is yell. Thankfully, however, I realize that the yelling I want to do is a knee-jerk reaction. I haven't actually yelled at DS (he's 20 months) and hope I do not. I've been able to realize the frustration before the yelling comes out. I was a teacher before DS was born and in the first year I taught, I caught myself yelling a few times and realized how ridiculous (and cruel) it was to yell at children. I think that sort of helped me to become mindful of the situation.


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## alisonsvw (Jan 30, 2006)

I really admire you all. I get frusterated with whining and sibling rivalry and often yell. I dont want to think they are scarred for life....Im not hitting them,I try not to do it, but it happens. we are human. I apologise, life goes on and i try like heck to stop myself in the future.


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## primjillie (May 4, 2004)

I'm glad you brought this up, blessed. I've wondered about that too. I wasn't yelled at as a child and I don't remember yelling at mine. I'm always surprised at the amount of parents here who yell and scream at their kids. I find it admirable that they realize it is a problem and want to stop, but I don't understand how that can be gentle discipline, just because they aren't spanking. I have always found (in my life) that words hurt as much or more than physical actions.


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## Mama Coltrane (Sep 30, 2004)

I am dealing with this a little with my 3 yo. I have yelled a few times very quickly ( not a tirade). I was yelled at as a child infrequently. I was not spanked. My DSand I talk about it after and I apologize. I am so not a yeller. I have never yelled at my DH, for instance. I have rarely yelled at my family or sister. I am definitely able to control my temper, but sometimes I get steamed and something comes out louder than expected. I don't berate my 3 yo or say anything mean, I just say things too loudly. For example, I don't resort to name-calling , etc. , but I might say " you need to come inside now " much too loudly after saying it 4 times already.
It is all a process and we are working on it.


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## peacelovingmama (Apr 28, 2006)

We all have different struggles -- primarily determined by what we endured as a child. Personally, no one ever hit or yelled at me. So I do not find it difficult to abstain from those damaging acts.

But that is not to say that I am the perfect model of GD. My parents sometimes used passive aggression and shaming. I find that, when I am at the end of my rope, that is what I struggle to avoid.

To me, those here who were hit and who affirmatively choose NOT to perpetutate that cycle of violence are nothing short of heroic. I really mean that. Once hitting has been engrained in a person as an acceptable act (especially in anger) then I think it is very difficult to avoid (per my DH who was hit a lot -- and I give him soooo much credit for not allowing himself to do to our children what was done to him). I'll bet those who were yelled at have a similar struggle. I hold those who break destructive cycles in VERY high regard.

And as happy as I am that I don't hit or yell, I really don't think it shows any greater commitment to GD or self-control on my part than those who struggle with those things (and occasionally slip and do them). For me, never having been hit, the impulse simply isn't there. I am no more tempted to hit a little person than I am to hit an adult.

I hope that those who are breaking the cycle (of hitting, screaming, shaming, passive-agression, whatever the cycle involves) realize what a tremendous gift they are passing on to future generations. And if we err now and then, I hope we all can forgive ourselves and move forward with resolve to break destructive cycles. Think of it this way -- if we do these thing less (or not at all), we are making it so much easier for our children to parent without the temptation to do these things. I love that I am passing on the gift/right of non-violence and respect for children to my kids, grandkids, great-grandkids, etc.


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## ~member~ (May 23, 2002)

My mother was huge yeller. She would even yell at us in front of friends.
It has been a long journey to not become a mother who yells. Yes, I have yelled out of fear, but never in anger. Like, "OMG! Watch out!" when the 2 yr old walked in front of the 10 yr old who was swinging. My 10 yr old was awesome in stopping herself before seriously injuring her little sister.

I work very hard at never getting angry at a child. I focus more on the behavior or action, how I can change it in a positive way, and by then I am no longer angry, but more disappointed or sad, like if it was something 'special' of mine that got wrecked, kwim?
Recently, the 4 yr olds found my stuffed mouse that I have had since I was 5 yrs old. I had placed certain clothes and bracelets and trinkets on it, as reminders of my journey. They took them all apart and lost some. But as I was picking it up, I realized that I really couldn't remember the significance of a lot of the trinkets and pieces of fabric.
But we did have a wonderful time of sharing stories about memories and how we each 'save' those memories. So, that was very good and healing.


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## Magella (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *peacelovingmama* 
We all have different struggles -- primarily determined by what we endured as a child. Personally, no one ever hit or yelled at me. So I do not find it difficult to abstain from those damaging acts.

But that is not to say that I am the perfect model of GD. My parents sometimes used passive aggression and shaming. I find that, when I am at the end of my rope, that is what I struggle to avoid.

To me, those here who were hit and who affirmatively choose NOT to perpetutate that cycle of violence are nothing short of heroic. I really mean that. Once hitting has been engrained in a person as an acceptable act (especially in anger) then I think it is very difficult to avoid (per my DH who was hit a lot -- and I give him soooo much credit for not allowing himself to do to our children what was done to him). I'll bet those who were yelled at have a similar struggle. I hold those who break destructive cycles in VERY high regard.

And as happy as I am that I don't hit or yell, I really don't think it shows any greater commitment to GD or self-control on my part than those who struggle with those things (and occasionally slip and do them). For me, never having been hit, the impulse simply isn't there. I am no more tempted to hit a little person than I am to hit an adult.

I hope that those who are breaking the cycle (of hitting, screaming, shaming, passive-agression, whatever the cycle involves) realize what a tremendous gift they are passing on to future generations. And if we err now and then, I hope we all can forgive ourselves and move forward with resolve to break destructive cycles. Think of it this way -- if we do these thing less (or not at all), we are making it so much easier for our children to parent without the temptation to do these things. I love that I am passing on the gift/right of non-violence and respect for children to my kids, grandkids, great-grandkids, etc.









:
I have struggled with yelling, still do sometimes, and all along have been all too aware of how far from gentle it is. We each bring our own experiences and history and skills to parenting, each family has its own struggles and stress, each child is different, each parent is different. I admire every mother here who has had the courage to come admit to yelling and ask for help, who has the strength and courage and determination to do better. It's not just a simple matter of willpower, or only of learning the right skills (though that's a big part of it), but (for me at least) a matter of UNlearning a lifetime of conditioning and unhealthy and ineffective ways of coping with emotions. It has a lot to do with one's emotional resources, as well. It's a complex problem, at least that has been my experience.

And you know, before I had kids I swore I'd never, ever yell. And for the first almost 3 years that I was a mother, I didn't. I didn't suddenly stop trying, the challenges became such that I no longer had the resources (of varied types) to cope effectively. And that experience was very humbling, and very discouraging. But ultimately it has led to the most amazing growth experience of my life so far, and I am grateful for all I have learned despite the fact that I have regrets and have grieved. I don't dwell on the regrets, because we (my kids and I and our relationship) heal.


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## mightymoo (Dec 6, 2003)

I was yelled at all the time as a kid, my mother did a lot of belittling and that sort. Generally when I did anything wrong, it resulted in an hour of two of being yelled at and belittled in which I yelled back for as long as I could and hten broke down and cried while my mother continued to yell. Beyond straight out yelling, sarcasm and snide remarks were employed. I vowed not to be like that, but I struggle with this constantly. I don't usually hang around this forum much because I don't feel the folks here understand that its not just something I can just 'not do' like I choose the color of my shirt in the morning.

Like OP, most folks who don't have a tendency to yell don't understand what those who struggle not to have to go through - when I get angry and frustrated, that is the only thing I want to do. When my daughter continues to push my buttons (generally by hitting her little brother) I just come unglued. I try to vent it into statements of feeling like 'I am angry!', or just make angry noises, etc and not attach any judgement to them, but I know this still affects my DD. I see her yell at her little brother in turn and I know its because I yell at her. I hate it, but its not as simple as 'not doing it', its so part of who I am and I'm very frustrated with that.

I feel like I just don't fit in as a GD parent because I struggle with this. I really wanted to abandon this post even after I took the time to type it, but I'm fighting that desire and going to post anyway because I feel there are others out there that struggle with this and I hate to have them feel alone here. I hate that there is the idea that unless you can conform to the principles of GD, then you aren't "GD" (or AP or NFL or whatever). Some of us have a harder journey getting there and need support along the way, not to be judged because we are imperfect. I believe GD is the right thing to do, its my goal to get there, but I'm not there yet.

Maybe we need a 'Adult Children of Yellers Anonymous' tribe or something


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## peacelovingmama (Apr 28, 2006)

mightymoo said:


> !
> I feel like I just don't fit in as a GD parent because I struggle with this. I really wanted to abandon this post even after I took the time to type it, but I'm fighting that desire and going to post anyway because I feel there are others out there that struggle with this and I hate to have them feel alone here. I hate that there is the idea that unless you can conform to the principles of GD, then you aren't "GD" (or AP or NFL or whatever). Some of us have a harder journey getting there and need support along the way, not to be judged because we are imperfect. I believe GD is the right thing to do, its my goal to get there, but I'm not there yet.
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## hempmama (Dec 16, 2004)

I think everybody struggles with something, and if they tell you they don't then what they struggle with is delusion and egomaniacism.









I don't yell, but I do use a too-angry but very soft tone of voice. I'm particularly prone when my older is doing something that harms my younger (being too loud during his nap, dawdling getting in the car meaning he freaks out because he hates the car, blah blah blah). I guess that's just a lot of stress on a mama bear. But I think GD is a process- in a way it's nice if your problem is yelling instead of the more amorphous "appropriate anger levels" or whatever, because you can see concrete progress. So GD gives me a frame work and tools to use for the growth I want to be a better parent to my children.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

I definitely yelled more at my older girls than at my younger ones...it's a journey and I am doing so much better...of course it helps when the rest of your life is on a good course..when I was with my older girls' dad it was harder because of the lifestyle he brought home..half the time I was frustrated with him and that came out in how I parented the girls.

Now I have 4 kids and a husband who is away quite a bit and I rarely yell...generally it's at my oldest if I do..she has had more years to learn how to push the buttons.

What has helped me the most is meditation and just trying to be mindful in each moment...many times I have been about to yell and have talked myself through it. I was driving with my 2 little ones today and my 3 year old who was wayyyyyyyyyyy overtired was screaming in the back...before my meditation practice I would have lost it...she screamed for a long time...I did not lose it or yell at all and when I felt myself come close I became still and just became mindful of the moment.

My husband is not a yeller at all...it's hilarious..one time he was all upset and I asked him why he was so stressed...he said "because I yelled at Christi and I wasn't even upset with her I was stressed about something else" It was hilarious...he had barely raised his voice and had spoken to her with what I would have called "mild annoyance" but to him it was yelling. I said "boy, you must think I am wildly out of control if you call that yelling"









My mother was a yeller...a shamer too...but not a spanker...well she spanked my brother twice. My father was a saint...patient, kind, understanding, sweet.

I think annoying voices and letting someone know what you are feeling is important. I also think when you are frustrated or anxious or whatever you should tell your kids. I think kids understand so much more than we give them credit for.

I will say to my 3 year old...I am stressed about all the work I have to do today, I am trying to stay happy...can you help me out? and she will as much as she's able.

I too find my trigger is when the older is a bit rough with the baby, I never lost patience with my 16 year old until her sister came along and neither with my 3 year old until the baby came along.

I know so many mamas who are devastated at their loss of patience with their older child after the baby comes..it's a real test.


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## gaialice (Jan 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mightymoo* 
I hate that there is the idea that unless you can conform to the principles of GD, then you aren't "GD" (or AP or NFL or whatever). Some of us have a harder journey getting there and need support along the way, not to be judged because we are imperfect. I believe GD is the right thing to do, its my goal to get there, but I'm not there yet.









:







:
It is also important to teach our children forgiveness. Forgivenness for one's mistakes and those of others. We need to learn to say "This time I reacted this way and I do not like it and tomorrow I'll do better". Our children will be fortunate if they learn to do that. It is important to celebrate our qualities, while working on our mistakes.


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## Blu Razzberri (Sep 27, 2006)

I hang my head in shame because I'm a yeller these days. It's gotten to the point where my boy won't listen to me unless I'm yelling (ok, it's not that bad always, but sometimes it is). I've had some serious stress issues (unfortunately, a large majority of these issues are caused by his natural father who's immature) and I'm very agitated (much like you are with pregnancy...hormonal swings, skin crawls, limbs are restless, just want to be left alone....those kinds of things). It's also very hard for me to be asked the same thing and have things repeated over and over (that "mommy..mommy..sigh" banner on this site...that's ME)

Fortunately, I stumbled back upon this site (I knew of it a couple years ago) and it's been three days of partial bliss as my mind re-shifts it's focus back to all the things I learned/knew when baby was born. I've been spending alot of time on here, reading, posting; and re-learning. It's going to change alot around here, I'm sure.

PS: It doesn't help that my S/O has just moved in with us and while he loves my child like his own and treats him as such; he's very inexperienced and now he's trying to fit into an already made world. Thankfully, he's come a long way quickly!..one less stress (on most days..lol) Plus, he helps me out a great lot.


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## cpop (May 3, 2006)

I'm not a yeller and never was yelled at as a child, but my DH never yells at our DD either and I think he was yelled at as a child.
So I don't know if that has something to do with it.
I wondered about this myself, but then my dd is a pretty low key kid and doesn't tend to do anything that may provoke that in me.
Kids are different, parents are different . . . who knows


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## aywilkes (Sep 2, 2006)

My DS is 8 and since his mouth has been out of control, I have found it more of a struggle to not yell. I didn't start out trying to be GD or adopt any of the principles (because I didn't know about it and that is just not the way things are done in the community where I grew up). However, now, I find that when I backslide into yelling it is usually after me talking very nicely to him at length, engaging him in conversation, or attempting to explore his feelings about something and making sure we have an understanding and him constantly being disrespectful - clenching fists, answering me in an unacceptable tone, etc. Then my voice gets louder. Sometimes, I have to tell him to go to another room until he can lose the anger to avoid the yelling. Yelling really gets to my DS though - he will cry. He also dislikes me talking in a firm voice as well so I try to avoid doing this as much as possible.

On another note, nobody's childhood is perfect because no parent is perfect. my mother spanked me (sometimes) and definitely yelled sometimes. But, I am still a loving, compassionate person and I view her the same way. People raise their kids the best way they know how. Althugh my mom spanked and yelled (i remember most of this from age 8+), she does not like it when her sisters discipline their kids harshly - and harsh to her is beating their butts for every little thing. Sometimes, when I feel guilty about something I've said to my DS, I remind myself that he is still a loving, caring, wonderful little boy despite the mistakes I made when I was not even aware of GD techniques. So things can only get better now that I am monitoring my own behavior.


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## angela&avery (May 30, 2002)

If you arent predisposed to being a yeller, you would never understand. It is not EASY. Its a guilt filled journey of parenting. When you grow up being yelled at, it is often a forefront of "tools" that are ingrained in you. I never yelled at my son either when he was little. Its soooooo different when you have two kids and they fight. Mama bear istinct rages and you are like... whoaa..... what was that....

It sucks. Its a knee jerk reaction as someone mentioned and depending on your personality its not enough to just reallize its wrong, its a conditioning. I find I do better if I am currently reading some sort of gd book... then I have fresh ideas in my mind of how to handle things when the kids are out of control and I feel out of control.

When I yell its like an out of body experience. I can almost see myself yelling and Im telling myself to stop and I CANT.

The best thing is for me to do is address the children before I get upset, and to get control of the sibling rivalry. I have done that having read "Mom, Jasons Breathing On Me" (by far the most helpful book Ive read), and I really rarely yell anymore, but for a while it was so tough. I mean, my family is relatively loud by nature, but Im not getting upset and yelling anymore to try to control the situation. At least not all day every day.

It is a LONG HARD journey, be thankful and feel lucky you dont understand, and try not to judge us "yellers".


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## Magella (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *peacelovingmama* 
Striving to gently discipline doesn't mean, in my view, that we are automatically perfect and able to overcome childhood experiences. I think it means that we affirmatively choose something different and then do our absolute best to bring it to fruition.









It's true that choosing gentle discipline doesn't mean we're automatically good at it and immediately able to overcome all of our childhood and cultural conditioning and experiences. GD doesn't always come naturally and easily, even if we believe very much in it. It's a daily struggle for some of us, and each day--even each hour or each minute--we choose to begin that struggle anew for the love of our children. We make mistakes, we pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and try again, trying to let go of the guilt and the shame so that we're free to grow and become the parents we want to be.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mightymoo* 
I don't usually hang around this forum much because I don't feel the folks here understand that *its not just something I can just 'not do' like I choose the color of my shirt in the morning.*

I understand it.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *angela&avery*
When you grow up being yelled at, it is often a forefront of "tools" that are ingrained in you.

Its a knee jerk reaction as someone mentioned and depending on your personality its not enough to just reallize its wrong, its a conditioning.

When I yell its like an out of body experience. I can almost see myself yelling and Im telling myself to stop and I CANT.


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## Cate (Oct 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mightymoo* 
I hate that there is the idea that unless you can conform to the principles of GD, then you aren't "GD" (or AP or NFL or whatever). Some of us have a harder journey getting there and need support along the way, not to be judged because we are imperfect.

I deffinatly agree with this. I was raised in a very AP/GD familly, however, my parents did occasionally slip up, no one is perfect.
For the past two years, I feel like I've been living in a pressure cooker, and as a result, have not always been the perfect example of GD that I would like to be. When I was at the peak of this difficult time, my local LLL leader felt the need to phone me to tell me that she was concerned that I didn't believe in GD, and that Jenna was suffering as a result of this. I've had a very hard time dealing with her comments, and I ended up leaving my LLL group as a result. The added stress this caused made it even harder for me to parent the way that I wanted/want to.
What people need when they are struggling with yelling etc is not judment, it's support and understanding. Casting judgement only ends up making things worce.


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## mama_b (Dec 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mightymoo* 
I was yelled at all the time as a kid, my mother did a lot of belittling and that sort. Generally when I did anything wrong, it resulted in an hour of two of being yelled at and belittled in which I yelled back for as long as I could and hten broke down and cried while my mother continued to yell. Beyond straight out yelling, sarcasm and snide remarks were employed. I vowed not to be like that, but I struggle with this constantly. I don't usually hang around this forum much because I don't feel the folks here understand that its not just something I can just 'not do' like I choose the color of my shirt in the morning.

Like OP, most folks who don't have a tendency to yell don't understand what those who struggle not to have to go through - when I get angry and frustrated, that is the only thing I want to do. When my daughter continues to push my buttons (generally by hitting her little brother) I just come unglued. I try to vent it into statements of feeling like 'I am angry!', or just make angry noises, etc and not attach any judgement to them, but I know this still affects my DD. I see her yell at her little brother in turn and I know its because I yell at her. I hate it, but its not as simple as 'not doing it', its so part of who I am and I'm very frustrated with that.

I feel like I just don't fit in as a GD parent because I struggle with this. I really wanted to abandon this post even after I took the time to type it, but I'm fighting that desire and going to post anyway because I feel there are others out there that struggle with this and I hate to have them feel alone here. I hate that there is the idea that unless you can conform to the principles of GD, then you aren't "GD" (or AP or NFL or whatever). Some of us have a harder journey getting there and need support along the way, not to be judged because we are imperfect. I believe GD is the right thing to do, its my goal to get there, but I'm not there yet.

Maybe we need a 'Adult Children of Yellers Anonymous' tribe or something









I haven't read all the posts, but I wanted to respond to this. The same thing happened to me repeatedly when I was a child (being yelled at for hours). Yelling back was my only defense mechanism. I struggle SO badly not to yell at my dd. She is only 16 months. I only succeed in not yelling at her about half the time.







I just don't know how else to deal with things in the moment. But I'm working on it.


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## LoveBeads (Jul 8, 2002)

I can think of two people who aren't "yellers" but they are far from perfect examples of GD. They speak to their kids in a very exaggerated belittling tone and it sounds downright shaming and condescending. No they don't yell but what they do isn't any less damaging because it is completely inauthentic.

Mamas who yell and who come to the GD forum - do NOT hang your heads in shame. You should stand up proud for coming here and sharing your stories. You are teaching us. We are all teaching each other.

I really feel uncomfortable when subjects come up that seem to make one group a "better" GD parent than another. I really do.


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## primjillie (May 4, 2004)

I don't think anyone is judging another, just trying to understand the difference between yelling and other forms of discipline. I was just trying to understand why yelling doesn't seem to fall under forbidden forms of discipline, like spanking for example, because I feel yelling can be just as harmful.


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

I am a yeller (actually I am more of a screamer, to be honest) by nature, and screaming is always my first instinct when I get angry/overwhelmed/frustrated/whatever. It is a BIG problem for me, and I really struggle with this. My husband has even commented on it, and he is not the type to openly criticize. I find myself moving more and more away from yelling, but I do have relapses occasionally.







I would say that this is the personality trait I struggle with the most when it comes to not just parenting, but all relationships.

I also wanted to add that I totally agree and empathize with the PP who said that yelling is like an out-of-body experience. There have been countless times that I have "caught myself" yelling at my son, knew it was wrong and harmful to him, and couldn't stop. It's very hard to explain, and I'm sure even harder to understand if you haven't been through it yourself. Just wanted to say that I know how that feels.


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## Magella (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *primjillie* 
I don't think anyone is judging another, just trying to understand the difference between yelling and other forms of discipline. I was just trying to understand why yelling doesn't seem to fall under forbidden forms of discipline, like spanking for example, because I feel yelling can be just as harmful.

Forbidden in what way?

I don't think anyone here celebrates yelling, I've never seen that. Those who have posted on this thread, and every other mama I've seen post about yelling here at MDC, has said that they are well aware of how undesirable, ineffective and harmful yelling is. Yelling is no one's goal here, no one here is happy yelling. *Not* yelling is the goal. The fact that people come here looking for help, or venting about a bad day, looking for support in their journey to do better in no way implies that yelling is celebrated by anyone here.

I posted to this thread, sharing my struggle, in order to support other moms facing similar struggles in their work toward their gentle discipline goals, and to help those who haven't struggled with this understand how difficult it can be. I wasn't comfortable posting, because I too was unsure of the intent of this thread. I continue to be unsure about the intent, but I hope this thread is helpful to other struggling mothers and doesn't degenerate into an attack on less-than-perfect moms.


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## Lkg4dmcrc (Jan 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cate* 
I deffinatly agree with this. I was raised in a very AP/GD familly, however, my parents did occasionally slip up, no one is perfect.
For the past two years, I feel like I've been living in a pressure cooker, and as a result, have not always been the perfect example of GD that I would like to be. When I was at the peak of this difficult time, my local LLL leader felt the need to phone me to tell me that she was concerned that I didn't believe in GD, and that Jenna was suffering as a result of this. I've had a very hard time dealing with her comments, and I ended up leaving my LLL group as a result. The added stress this caused made it even harder for me to parent the way that I wanted/want to.
What people need when they are struggling with yelling etc is not judment, it's support and understanding. Casting judgement only ends up making things worce.

I am so glad you pointed this out. The shame/ anger/shame cycle is really vicious and it leads people to abandon their relationships. I understand that some people are coming to this with a genuine interest to learn about yelling, how people deal with it, etc. Others may not be so genuine and in fact shame people even more. If we really want to promote GD, we need to be aware of the shaming and the damage it can cause. I wouldn't want people to completely abandon GD or feel they have to because they happen to be struggling in their efforts to stop yelling.

As an aside, My SIL/MIL both are not yellers at all. But they are the most passive aggressive/shaming people around. You don't have to be a yeller to do damage to your kids!


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## angelpie545 (Feb 23, 2005)

I am too a yeller by nature. My mother would always get upset and yell at me when I was younger, then calm down and talk about it in a more rational way. She was one of those people who moods were always, up, then down, then up the down. I've wondered from time to time if she was bi-polar, but I've come to realize that she's just extremely sensitive.

However, I hate yelling, and I don't ever want my kids to feel like that. I remember being really scared when my mom would scream when I was a kid, and then when I got older I would just roll my eyes and try to calm her down.

So I've taught myself a couple of techniques: First of if I'm really REALLY mad-...I opera sing instead of yelling.







Sounds nutso, but I'm a singer, and I singing calms me down, so I just sing very loudly. My kids think it's funny and we both start laughing and calm down. Secondly, I look at my kids and think, what are they thinking of me right now? Would I want me to be my mommy? It really helps put things into prespective. Then I try to think of the big picture-is what they did really that bad? Do I really need to freak out? Is there some other way I could handle this better? I try as often as I can to let natural consequences teach a lesson. Also, I remember to myself-the purpose of discipline is to teach a lesson, not to punish or demean.

Another thing I do is try to talk in a low, calm voice. Instead of channeling my energy into screaming, I talk in a very low voice. This doesn't scare the kids but sounds authorative and meaningful, so they quiet down and listen.

I think the main reason why I try to not to yell and scream is it makes the child feel totally out of control. The reason is: children look to parents for everything-and the learn and imitate everything we do-especially our "not so good" behavior. They look to us for examples of self-control. The parent who yells and screams constantly is showing the child that it is alright to throw a tantrum and scream when things don't go your way. Children need someone calm and authorative that they can look up to, and when that person starts acting like a child, then the children feel out of control and their behavior reflects that.

There are certain situations where I do however feel yelling is appropriate: When is in a dangerous situation and you need to get his attention: for example child runs out into a busy parking lot-in this case it's okay to show him that you are scared. Or, when's he's about to do something that will cause him harm: such as jumping off something really high, or about to put a knife in a light socket. In this case yelling is not a form a discipline, rather a way to grab the child's attention quickly before they put themselves in a position where they could be physically harmed.


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## primjillie (May 4, 2004)

I guess I'm not explaining it very well. Let's say, if someone was to come on MDC and saying they are spanking their kids everyday, but trying to do better, I think they'd be flamed. But when people come on and say they yell everyday, they get sympathized with. My dh is a yeller, so I do see that side, please don't think I haven't experienced it. If I'm still not explaining this right, just ignore me - I'm not trying to judge anyone!


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## jee'smom (Mar 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angela&avery* 
If you arent predisposed to being a yeller, you would never understand. It is not EASY. Its a guilt filled journey of parenting. When you grow up being yelled at, it is often a forefront of "tools" that are ingrained in you. I never yelled at my son either when he was little. Its soooooo different when you have two kids and they fight. Mama bear istinct rages and you are like... whoaa..... what was that....

It sucks. Its a knee jerk reaction as someone mentioned and depending on your personality its not enough to just reallize its wrong, its a conditioning. I find I do better if I am currently reading some sort of gd book... then I have fresh ideas in my mind of how to handle things when the kids are out of control and I feel out of control.

When I yell its like an out of body experience. I can almost see myself yelling and Im telling myself to stop and I CANT.

The best thing is for me to do is address the children before I get upset, and to get control of the sibling rivalry. I have done that having read "Mom, Jasons Breathing On Me" (by far the most helpful book Ive read), and I really rarely yell anymore, but for a while it was so tough. I mean, my family is relatively loud by nature, but Im not getting upset and yelling anymore to try to control the situation. At least not all day every day.

It is a LONG HARD journey, be thankful and feel lucky you dont understand, and try not to judge us "yellers".









I could not have said it better myself. Are you my lost identical twin? This is EXACTLY how I feel. I'm going to try to get that book. I've also started therapy to help with anger management.


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## peacelovingmama (Apr 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *primjillie* 
I guess I'm not explaining it very well. Let's say, if someone was to come on MDC and saying they are spanking their kids everyday, but trying to do better, I think they'd be flamed. But when people come on and say they yell everyday, they get sympathized with. My dh is a yeller, so I do see that side, please don't think I haven't experienced it. If I'm still not explaining this right, just ignore me - I'm not trying to judge anyone!


Personally, I have seen lots of people who admit to hitting get tons of support and encouragement here. The only negative responses I have seen have been when someone comes here and actually defends or advocates hitting children. Personally, anyone who comes here seeking to better her parenting -- whether they hit, scream, use love-withdrawal or some other harmful tactic -- has my sympathy and support. Either way, it sounds like we all agree that this should be a support/educational/inspirational forum no matter what the person's struggle involves -- so long as the person isn't rationalizing the harmful practice.

ETA: I will freely admit though, that I am personally much more sensitive to physical violence. I recognize that verbal abuse CAN be as damaging but I don't think I've seen descriptions of that here. I'm sure there will be disagreement, but I do view most physical violence as more alarming that the sort of yelling that has been described here. Certainly neither is desirable but all we can do is help one another do better.


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## momster (Oct 2, 2005)

Hi mamas,

I'm loving this thread and it's coming at exactly the moment that I need it to. I want to respond to so many posts, but instead of quoting everyone, I'll just do my best ad lib.

Am I a yeller?
Didn't think so until recently when I yelled at my 20 mos ds 2 days in a row. I had previously yelled at him once at about 15 mos and couldn't believe I'd done it and thought I'd never do it again. But as those of use who have yelled know, it's not that easy to stop.

Is yelling like hitting?
I was so wrong to yell, and I agree with some of the posters that it may be as damaging as hitting. I think any physical abuse/discipline is wrong, however I think a child being beaten day in and out is much more harmed than a child who is spanked one time and never again. I think the same is true with yelling.

Where does the yelling come from?
I've been pondering this a lot recently. My dad yelled sometimes, but not all the time. Mostly when he wasn't drunk, and he was mostly drunk. My mom didn't yell, but she did have a very difficult time expressing frustration and anger. I remember her heavy sighs and grunts of frustration and disappointment. When I think of her sighing, my skin crawls, maybe from the feeling of all that bottled up negativity not finding a way out? So I've been realizing that I never learned constructive ways to express anger and frustration. I expressed a lot of anger in therapy, support groups, demonstrations, speak outs, etc about 15-20 yrs ago. Yelling, kicking the floor, etc were all condoned in those settings, but they don't serve me very well as a parent.

One poster mentioned that children pick up the negative behaviors so easily. I berate myself for repeating negative behaviors that I learned from my parents (and there seem to be many of them), so the other day I started wondering what traits in my personality I can use to respond more creatively to frustrating situations with my son. I realized that my mother is incredibly caring with babies and my father is very analytical and creative in problem solving and I have all of these traits in me too. So I'm trying come up with concrete responses to situations that draw on these traits in myself.

Parenting is a hard but very rewarding journey. Thanks for making it to the end of my long post.


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

The craziest thing just happened...

This thread prompted me to go to amazon.com and look for a book to help me with my yelling/screaming. I typed in only the word "parenting" in their search block, and the *first* thing at the top of the list was a book called "ScreamFree Parenting: Raising Your Kids By Keeping Your Cool." It's meant to be! Needless to say, I'm ordering! Has anyone read this?


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hempmama* 
I think everybody struggles with something, and if they tell you they don't then what they struggle with is delusion and egomaniacism.

















Word.

I honestly cannot remember ever being yelled at, my parents are *very* even tempered and to this day I've only heard them raise their voices a handful of times, and that was more of a volume of frustration - I've still never heard them shout/scream. I'd never been a yeller in my whole life either, until about 3 months ago, soon after DD was born. Coincidence? I think not. I didn't start yelling at DS until I wasn't able to immediately get to him to redirect, distract, etc. like I was before she was born. So for me it wasn't a first instinct, it was more like desperation and exhaustion...

So what changed things for me? My 2-1/2-year-old son started yelling back at me about 3 weeks ago.







: He would match my tone and intensity, and oftentimes exceed it. And it was killing me.

So, I've made a really conscientious effort to take a deep breath and *whisper* when I start feeling that presure cooker inside me. And it seems to be working, as he's decreasing his intensity, too. Over the past 3 days, I only started to yell once, and as soon as I saw him wrench up his face and open his mouth wide I stopped and got down on his level and started whispering again. He's like my barometer, a direct (and painfully accurate) reflection of how I'm handling things in my life....which is amazing and humbling, all at the same time.

It's a process. I'm lucky enough to have enough of a "warning system" inside myself to feel when I'm getting to my breaking point, and I can breathe deeply and start speaking more quietly; I can't imagine how difficult it is for people who grew up with yelling, since I didn't and it's _still_ hard for me sometimes to stop myself.

I give an enormous amount of credit and feel huge admiration for parents who are able to break the cycle, and my recent struggles have only enforced that feeling. So to every mama reading my post who is working to break the cycle from their own childhood, you are giving an amazing gift to your children; remember to be as gentle with yourselves in your struggles as you would like to be with your children.









If there's one thing I've learned in my 2-1/2 short years of being a parent, it's "never say never". Motherhood has been the most awe-inspiring, fulfilling, humbling experience of my life, and I cannot wait to continue on the journey, meeting new challenges head on and striving every day to be gentle with my children, my husband, AND myself.


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## lisac77 (May 27, 2005)

Although I strive to be a GD parent, I was yelled at and it's the first thing I resort to when I am stressed and DS is misbehaving. I hate it. I hate what I am modeling for him. I hate the fact that I am losing my cool. I try every day to be calm with him, but some days are just harder than others.

I still consider myself a GD parent. I belive that GD is a journey of personal growth. I am currently reading a bunch of parenting books to put more tools in my parenting toolbox so that yelling is not the first thing I reach for.

Hugs to other mamas who are going through this. I know how hard it is.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The4OfUs* 
He's like my barometer, a direct (and painfully accurate) reflection of how I'm handling things in my life....which is amazing and humbling, all at the same time.

This is a good description, my kids are like that too. They're also like aversion therapy for my yelling, as it is so ineffective and clearly damaging to our relationship that I might as well have been shocked. In spite of this, I still do yell more frequently than I ever thought I would. It is a struggle, a huge struggle. But, I do give myself credit that I don't yell insults, like my mom and dad did. I just repeat my requests at a much higher volume. Progress, I guess.


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## gaialice (Jan 4, 2005)

I am Italian and I want to say that there is a cultural element to the yelling, as well. I mean, in Italy, yelling is NORMAL. Adults yell to one another about parking lots, colleagues yell at one another in the office...things like that. Now, I do not think yelling's a good thing. I was not yelled at as a child myself, and when people yell at me, I am so surprised I cannot say anything and people actually walk all over me. Now, I am trying hard not to yell at my kids, but, I think that I will never be as good at that as a Norwegian... YKWIM? Anyway, trying to curb the yelling is not the way to go, in my opinion. I have tried to curb the yelling and instead taken up a very nasty, sarcastic, and ridiculizing tone of voice. I realized that was even worse. So, I am trying to deal now with both the deep and the immediate causes of the anger I feel and adress those. That's the important thing...


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## Magella (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *primjillie* 
I guess I'm not explaining it very well. Let's say, if someone was to come on MDC and saying they are spanking their kids everyday, but trying to do better, I think they'd be flamed. But when people come on and say they yell everyday, they get sympathized with. My dh is a yeller, so I do see that side, please don't think I haven't experienced it. If I'm still not explaining this right, just ignore me - I'm not trying to judge anyone!

Ah. Okay, first off, I'm not picking on you I promise.








This is something that is important to me to explore, so I wonder if you'd be willing to tell me if I'm "hearing" you clearly: Are you wondering why, when a person posts about yelling at their kids, no one seems to come out and flame them by telling them how wrong yelling is and how much it's hurting their kids? Are you wondering why instead they are offered support and encouragement and sympathy or empathy? Are you wondering if offering the support, encouragement, empathy and compassion is perhaps encouraging yelling as a parenting practice? Are you wondering none of this, but just curious about the general tone of responses here because it isn't what you expected? (Have we scared you away? I hope not.)

Again, I'm looking for clarity here because I'm just curious and I think this is actually a very important discussion. Personally, I'm of the mind that it is exactly compassion and empathy that is needed to change the more violent parts of ourselves and our culture. I think that harsh words and harsh judgments of others are violent in nature and only add to the violence of our world. Also, I think that simply saying to someone "yelling is so hurtful to your kids" is not only telling someone what they already know (in most cases here at MDC) but is also not addressing the root of the problem. When my kids hit each other or yell at each other, I can tell them that's wrong and I can tell them how the other person feels or how much it hurts the other, but until I offer them the empathy they need and understand and address the reasons for hitting and yelling (offering them the support, encouragement and skills they need to address their problems in better ways) the problem is not likely to be resolved for the long-term. Now, none of us here is going to fix another parent's yelling problem, but we can offer them some of the empathy, encouragement, tools and support they need. We're as human as our kids, and not all that different in terms of what we need in order to grow and learn to do better.

I agree with whomever said that actually parents who come here admitting to spanking but trying to do better do receive support and encouragement. It's the _advocacy_ of spanking that would be strongly spoken against. And that is another matter entirely.

And I think it's good to remember, also, that each of us probably defines "yelling" in slightly different ways.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lisac77*
I belive that GD is a journey of personal growth.

Most definitely.


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## margitmama (Nov 19, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gaialice* 
I am Italian and I want to say that there is a cultural element to the yelling, as well. I mean, in Italy, yelling is NORMAL. Adults yell to one another about parking lots, colleagues yell at one another in the office...things like that. Now, I do not think yelling's a good thing. I was not yelled at as a child myself, and when people yell at me, I am so surprised I cannot say anything and people actually walk all over me. Now, I am trying hard not to yell at my kids, but, I think that I will never be as good at that as a Norwegian... YKWIM? Anyway, trying to curb the yelling is not the way to go, in my opinion. I have tried to curb the yelling and instead taken up a very nasty, sarcastic, and ridiculizing tone of voice. I realized that was even worse. So, I am trying to deal now with both the deep and the immediate causes of the anger I feel and adress those. That's the important thing...

I totally agree!
I think the cause and intensity of the anger (and subsequent yelling) are really important to examine.
I grew up in a home that was very lively, passionate and loving, and yes there was yelling, and that was ok. It was part of the deal. In fact, the tense silences were way more nerve-wracking and worrying to me - then you knew something was really wrong.
I guess what I am saying is that there are many ways to raise a voice; there is the belittling, denigrating, scaring, humilating, over-powering, way, and there is also a "hello is anyone listening to me?" raised voice. Not saying the latter is wise or effective, but I think a distinction can be made between the former and the latter.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Quote:

And I think it's good to remember, also, that each of us probably defines "yelling" in slightly different ways.
Yes, I really have to agree with this. I am an occasional yeller (attempting reform!) I really do not like it when I yell, but I wonder if some of the "nonyellers" here are picturing me screaming, "SHUT UP, YOU STUPID KID!" I have never done that--I hope I won't, but as someone else said, never say never, as this IS a humbling journey...Anyway, when I refer to myself yelling, I simply mean that I am raising my voice to my child in frustration or anger. The words are not actually abusive, but the tone and volume are not ideal. I often discover that I am yelling to be heard over DD's yelling/screaming...like this scene as we left for daycare and work this morning:

DD: "I WANT A LAVENDER LEAF! WE HAVE TO GO BACK! GO BACK AND GET THE LAVENDER LEAF!"
ME (reasonable voice, inaudible over the din): "DD, I'm sorry, but we can't turn the car around. We have to go take you to school."
DD: I WANT THE LEAF! GO BACK!
(etc. etc....she is wigging out...)
ME: DD, NO! WE CAN'T GO BACK. IT'S TIME FOR SCHOOL. WE WILL GET A LEAF WHEN WE GET HOME.


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## Cate (Oct 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
Yes, I really have to agree with this. I am an occasional yeller (attempting reform!) I really do not like it when I yell, but I wonder if some of the "nonyellers" here are picturing me screaming, "SHUT UP, YOU STUPID KID!" I have never done that--I hope I won't, but as someone else said, never say never, as this IS a humbling journey...Anyway, when I refer to myself yelling, I simply mean that I am raising my voice to my child in frustration or anger. The words are not actually abusive, but the tone and volume are not ideal. I often discover that I am yelling to be heard over DD's yelling/screaming...like this scene as we left for daycare and work this morning:

DD: "I WANT A LAVENDER LEAF! WE HAVE TO GO BACK! GO BACK AND GET THE LAVENDER LEAF!"
ME (reasonable voice, inaudible over the din): "DD, I'm sorry, but we can't turn the car around. We have to go take you to school."
DD: I WANT THE LEAF! GO BACK!
(etc. etc....she is wigging out...)
ME: DD, NO! WE CAN'T GO BACK. IT'S TIME FOR SCHOOL. WE WILL GET A LEAF WHEN WE GET HOME.

Yup, that's me too. Every time it happens the guilt eats me alive... especially when Jenna's in one of those moods where the tinniest thing will set her off. On those days when I raise my voice, the tears well up in her eyes, and she starts to cry... ooooo... the guilt.... then Callum gets in on the action... even more guilt. They're good at that. It's not even productive... when she's like that, yelling just makes her dig her heels in even more. I *know* it's counter-productive, but when she won't stop yammering on even for a second to listen to what I'm trying to say, and it's been one of those days, sometimes the volume just creeps up and up, until I find myself yelling. <sigh> so not proud of it.


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## Nora'sMama (Apr 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gaialice* 
I am Italian and I want to say that there is a cultural element to the yelling, as well.









Yup. My DH is Greek, and having recently spent 3 weeks with his family in Greece...well...communication = yelling there! Everyone speaks in a loud tone. It is not berating or abusive but it is very surprising to witness coming from a culture in which yelling is discouraged.

When there was yelling in my house growing up, it meant that someone was being shamed, that someone was angry and out of control, that Bad Things were afoot. When there was yelling in my DH's house growing up, it just meant...breakfast was on the table. It was time to get in the car. The day's news was being recounted.







HUGE difference in the context surrounding the raised voices.

So my DH does 'yell' a lot but he does not shame or berate or use yelling as a tool of intimidation. He just complains loudly or reports loudly about anything that causes him emotion, be it the person in the next lane who is trying to cut him off, or the coffee that spilled on the ground, or whatever. He *never* yells at DD. He does occasionally yell *at* *me*, but I can definitely go him one better.

It has been really hard to reprogram my brain to accept that yelling, while IMO never an objectively "positive" thing, is not objectively "negative" either. It's all in the perception. DD, interestingly enough, does not seem to perceive yelling as scary or even noteworthy enough to look up. Arguing, though, between me and DH - even if it's done in carefully calm voices - that makes her look worried. It's intriguing to me.

So, I think that *what* is said and the context surrounding it is really far more important than the tone of voice. That said, I do not yell (or I try not to) because for me it has negative associations, and I wish DH would lower his voice a few decibels. I worry that since DD is *not* growing up in Greece, she may come to feel that her father's tone is inappropriate and get stressed out when he raises his voice. I don't know.


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## abac (Mar 10, 2005)

Interesting discussion.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nora'sMama*
So, I think that *what* is said and the context surrounding it is really far more important than the tone of voice.

I find this very interesting, mainly because I would have said the opposite. You know, it's not what you say but how you say it. There have been so many times that I have been okay with what people have said to me, but their tone of voice changes the context entirely. But at the same time, I understand what you're saying Nora'sMama. And I agree that different people have different ideas about what constitutes yelling. Unfortuantely dh and I have different ideas about this. He says I'm yelling; I say I'm speaking passionately and with emotion. Regardless, I've found that if he's the one I'm speaking to, it's upsetting to him if I speak in that tone of voice so I do my best to tone it down.

We do lots and lots of fun yelling in our house, though. We play yelling games, seeing who can yell the loudest and longest. It's much different than frustrated or angry yelling.


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## gaialice (Jan 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *margitmama* 
I grew up in a home that was very lively, passionate and loving, and yes there was yelling, and that was ok. It was part of the deal.

Margitmama, thanks so much for your post. I am not going to take what you say as an excuse to continue to yell, in fact as I said, I am really trying to stop. But, it does help to hear that you still think you grew up in a loving environment in spite of the yelling. I do feel at a very deep level, that this is so for my little ones also. In my house too, although my parents yelled very rarely, there was a lot of yelling because my siblings yelled a lot... and me, too, I remember a lively house full of guests, friends and by-passers, where emotions ran high and love was very very deep... That love binds us all together to this day.


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## Nora'sMama (Apr 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *abac* 
Interesting discussion.I find this very interesting, mainly because I would have said the opposite. You know, it's not what you say but how you say it. There have been so many times that I have been okay with what people have said to me, but their tone of voice changes the context entirely. But at the same time, I understand what you're saying Nora'sMama. And I agree that different people have different ideas about what constitutes yelling. Unfortuantely dh and I have different ideas about this. He says I'm yelling; I say I'm speaking passionately and with emotion. Regardless, I've found that if he's the one I'm speaking to, it's upsetting to him if I speak in that tone of voice so I do my best to tone it down.

We do lots and lots of fun yelling in our house, though. We play yelling games, seeing who can yell the loudest and longest. It's much different than frustrated or angry yelling.


Well, I actually would also disagree with myself in a way...I don't think I 'put' it quite right, but you totally understood what I meant anyway...







I also think tone of voice can mean everything in a verbal interaction but what I should have said was how LOUD the voice is. I mean, when my DH yells, he has an exasperated tone, but not a mean, sarcastic, angry tone. So tone of voice = makes a difference. Decibel level of voice = not so much, IMO, although it is grating and jarring to hear people speak louder than you are used to.

Sorry to be so confusing!







I seem to be running a particularly high sleep deficit this week and I find myself astonished at how convoluted my sentences are, both talking and posting...


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## gaialice (Jan 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nora'sMama* 
when my DH yells, he has an exasperated tone, but not a mean, sarcastic, angry tone

that describes my yelling so exactly... and I understand what you mean when you say it does not have a big effect on Nora..


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## mommyto3girls (May 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angela&avery* 
If you arent predisposed to being a yeller, you would never understand. It is not EASY. Its a guilt filled journey of parenting. When you grow up being yelled at, it is often a forefront of "tools" that are ingrained in you.

It sucks. Its a knee jerk reaction as someone mentioned and depending on your personality its not enough to just reallize its wrong, its a conditioning.

When I yell its like an out of body experience. I can almost see myself yelling and Im telling myself to stop and I CANT.

It is a LONG HARD journey, be thankful and feel lucky you dont understand, and try not to judge us "yellers".


This is totally me, I could be yelling and in my mind thinking "This is horrible, you still remember being yelled at as a child, you can see that scared look in her eyes as mommy has lost control, you must STOP" Yet I couldn't, afterwards I will feel horrible and try to "make up for it" by extra cuddling, extra books and I realized that this was the same pattern that people who abuse their kids. The beat their kids and then buy them ice cream, let the stay up and watch TV, tell them how sorry they are for what they have done, then wake up and do it again tomorrow.

I knew that I had to stop but didn't know how. I know alot of you have issues with the book 1,2,3, Magic, but It has eliminated the yelling in our house, the tension is gone, I have not yelled in over a month, we are having fun together, and I rarely "count" her anymore. She self corrects her whining, is nicer to her sister, and we all have more fun together.


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## CTMOMOF2 (Aug 7, 2003)

Great Thread! Yes, i too am a yeller. I'm not proud of it. I feel badly about it, but i don't kow what else to do. Talking nicely doesn't get results... not in my house...
Also, my dh is always telling me to stop yelling.. but also i think i just talk really loud. Sometimes he or my son will tell me to stop yelling, when i don't even consider it yelling, i am mearly asking for somethign loudly!!
Mothering is so hard, i think it humbles most people... we are all doing the best we can, and sometimes our best isn't so great!
I try to be a positive person all the time... just do it loudly!
I'd love to stop yelling, but i don't even know where to begin.


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## momster (Oct 2, 2005)

I've been visiting this thread almost daily and reading and rereading the posts. I don't want to call myself a yeller, but I have on occasion yelled. I think it's abusive to yell and want to find constructive ways to avoid it.

It seems different posters have different ways/types of yelling.

Yelling can be abusive in its intensity and language, but I think more common is the yelling to get someone's attention when a situation feels out of control.

So, what non-yelling ways do you all have of getting your family's attention? Try to be specific in answering so we mamas can learn best.

Recently, I've found myself not yelling, but repeating myself over and over to my 20 month old even though he's not responding. Clearly, if I'm saying it over and over and he's not responding, it's not working. So I need another way of getting his attention.

Thanks to everyone participating in this thread.


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## mommyto3girls (May 3, 2005)

Really haven't tried it much with my kids, but I do it with my kids at school. I just start talking very softly so they have to quiet down to know what I am saying


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## CTMOMOF2 (Aug 7, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momster* 
So, what non-yelling ways do you all have of getting your family's attention? Try to be specific in answering so we mamas can learn best.


Oooh, oooh, i have a good answer... I don't do it, but you made me think of it!! I recently took a job at my son's school in the cafateria. My job is to "yell at" (pun intended, haha) or re-direct kids who are talking too loudly, out of their seats, etc... Anyway, at the school, all the teachers and aides use a system to get attention when things are getting out of control. They clap the rhythm, lets see if i can type this right...

bump...bump...bump,bump,bump...
And they wait for the response from all the students to respond... bump bump! And then everyone is quiet and listening for direction. I may try this at home!! It really works!!


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## mommyto3girls (May 3, 2005)

Yeah Tracey, we did that at my school last year for assemblies, called it "The Riverside Beat" (I taught at Riverside Elem)


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## CTMOMOF2 (Aug 7, 2003)

Isn't that cool?? I love it when the entire cafeteria gets it immediately and it is all quiet!!


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## TanyaS (Jun 24, 2003)

Wow. You don't know how badly I needed to find this thread this week. I was definitely yelled at as a child. My mom took out a lot of her stresses on us in the form of yelling and screaming. I have found that it is one of the first things I resort to when things are spiraling out of control. I do very well avoiding it much of the time, but when I lose it I lose it in a bad, bad way. The worsts are typically during an escalating event with siblings and one has gotten hurt.

I have an awful incident to share. Just the other day, DD and DS were playing and DD started messing up what DS was doing I was nursing the baby and asked him to play nicely and as soon as the baby was sleeping I was putting DD down for nap, too. Then he'd have his playtime free of his sister. Three times he started to hit her with a toy. Each time I talked him down calmly (feeling very proud of myself for maintaining my calm) and he moved a little away from her. The fourth time, I missed the moment of intervention and he threw with a huge amount of force a wooden toy directly into her face. Livid does not describe what happened to me next. I screamed so hard at him to go to his room. Harder and louder than I ever have. I don't even want to know what my face looked like.







: Thankfully, I didn't have a tirade against him personally, just that he had to go. Now. After dd and I both were calm. I set the timer for 30 minutes for him to calm down in his room (he was still quite frustrated) and at the end we would talk.

I can't tell you how hard it was to control what came out that day. It's hard to not revert to the old cycle of yelling about little things. I just couldn't control my reaction at that time. I think I also have a mild case of PPD and it's expressing itself as anger at my older dc and dh, too. I am VERY interested in real, practical tools for eliminating the yelling in my home. I understand occasional frustrations coming out. But what is happening here is way too excessive and stressing everyone out.


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## hoorayforbears (Oct 4, 2006)

My mother yelled at me a lot. She is bi-polar and has major anger issues. I'm not excusing it, but it's why. I hated it when she yelled. She would tear me down as much as possible. I would start crying and she would fall to her knees, cry, and beg for my forgiveness. I always said I forgived her, but I never have. To this day I hate that she let herself go when she was angry. I hate that she didn't get help.

I've yelled at my daughter three times. Each time I cried hard. I held her and apologized over and over. It's been quite awhile since I've yelled. When I'm at the point where I want to yell (only cause I think it will make me feel better, even though I know it doesn't) I take deep breaths and count to 10. Sometimes I even leave the room for a few seconds and turn the radio or tv on. It only takes a few seconds to get un-frustrated.

I've just taught myself to realize that yelling will do nothing but hurt her and me. So while every part of me wants to scream and yell some part reminds me that it can and will emotionally damage my daughter.


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## geekgolightly (Apr 21, 2004)

but what do you do with what is welling up inside? fuming silence and all that tension is worse, and when it's welling up inside i literally have no place to go. no where to safely let all of those emotions out of my body.

i was raised by a paranoid schizophrenic mom until 6 and then by a bipolar brutal step mother who beat me viciously and screamed and belittled. when i think back, im so surprised that i believed i deserved it, because she was so out of control, but i really believed that it was my fault she was how she was. my father was working and never intervened in any of this. i have no idea how to raise my child. books never seem to touch on what comes up.

i yelled last night at seth. i feel awful AWFUL about it. it doesnt matter what he did, what matters is that i reacted in a negative manner that will ensure that he is raised in fear just like i was. thank god i don't hit him, but i felt what i suspect are the same feelings my step monster felt when she went ahead and hit me.

i just want to know how to redirect all of that negative energy in a healthy manner. i cant be lazy and say "well at least im not beating him" but if i keep this inside, i think that will terrorize him as well. all of that unsaid violence. all of that tension...


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## abac (Mar 10, 2005)

Kathy, have you considered counselling? I also find regular yoga very calming. For me, anger and frustration is most often a result a result of unrealistic expectations which inevitably lead to disappointment. I find it's very important for me to avoid those situations that make my blood boil. Knowing my triggers has helped. For those that I can't avoid, taking some deep, cleansing breaths helps.

I try very hard to remind myself that I have the ability to make a given situation better or worse, depending on my reaction. This can be very hard to do in the heat of the moment, but if I can stop myself BEFORE I get too worked up, it's much easier.


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

Quote:

Although I strive to be a GD parent, I was yelled at and it's the first thing I resort to when I am stressed and DS is misbehaving. I hate it. I hate what I am modeling for him. I hate the fact that I am losing my cool. I try every day to be calm with him, but some days are just harder than others.



















Something else really quickly----I met w/a counselor who specializes in anger therapy once during a LLL conference. She told me one of the most important things to remember (as a beginning step) if you have yelling issues is to yell about the action/consequence/occurence/feeling rather than the child.

Anger is energy based on frustrated needs. It has to go somewhere. Just try and not let it go to the child.

If your child spills your tea, instead of saying, I'm so upset *you* spilled my tea!!!! Say: I'm so upset when my tea spills...or Ack! Tea!...or I AM FEELING SO FRUSTRATED!!!!


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## mightymoo (Dec 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *abac* 
For me, anger and frustration is most often a result a result of unrealistic expectations which inevitably lead to disappointment.

This is true. This is why I find it harder and harder to avoid yelling at my daughter as she gets older because my expectations have increased. I don't yell at my son much at all because he's so young I don't expect him to be able to control himself, but at her age, I feel like she should be able to and that's what leads to my anger. It doesn't help that she's very bright and articulate and so can do things and talk like she's older and more mature.

While occaisionally I do explode over something, most of the yelling I do is in the getting the child's attention to prevent her from hurting her brother. I do sometimes clap loudly in sucession, but honestly I don't think that is any better because its an angry clap (am I getting into nuances or what?) but the problem is that I can talk in a low voice till I'm blue in the fact and DD will just ignore me. I'm not sure if this is just an excuse, but I feel I escalated to yelling because she doesn't listen to anything else and when she has her brother pinned to the ground screaming (or some equivilent) I don't know what else to do? I feel that figuring out an alternative for this situation is key, its like gateway yelling - since I'm used to yelling in these moments, I resort to yelling at other times when I do have alternatives I know I can use.


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

I have yelled before and I'm sure I will yell again.

It comes across as condescending to start a thread and say "I don't have any trouble with yelling. I don't really understand parents who do." and then solicit input from people who DO have trouble with it.

I mean, what is the point of the thread?

Anyway. Yes, I have yelled said horrible things when I'm really angry. It has never occurred to me that I should turn in my GD parent card because of it.

I think pretty much everyone has their moments where they are not the parent that they want to be.

My mom was VERY into shaming as well. That is something I have to work very hard to avoid doing, too. She used it and would still do it with my DS if I let her, and it makes my toes curl even to think about it.

I'm going through a divorce and have gone to work full-time and DS and I are going through a LOT of adjustments. He screams at me sometimes, and I yell at him sometimes. I have days where I feel like I'm not even worthy to be his mother, much less be the object of his devotion (and longing when I'm at work at all day).

I doubt many here have slogged through the mud in my shoes. But bad things happen and can and will happen to anyone. And then you find your parenting being defined by your reaction to these bad things.


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## melimel (Sep 27, 2006)

This is a wonderful thread!

We have a son and I do think (this might sound a bit sexist) that generally speaking, mothers to sons have a greater challenge. For example, our son climbs on everything (which is often dangerous), and is also highly independent (a great quality, though a bit scary when he tries to run off -- he's very fast!). Generally, he is much more physically active than most girls his age.

When I read the posts from Moms who write that they cannot understand why/how a Mom would yell, it seems these are the moms with girls only. (most likely why they are unable to understand.) Not to say that these Moms would yell if they had boys! It's just that generally speaking, girls tend to be a bit more calm. (I hope I do not get anyone upset with this comment. I don't mean to!)

I am not a yeller, though I have on three occasions tried it out to see if it was effective (it wasn't, so I have since retired that whole discipline strategy). It only made me feel like a failure, and my son just laughed!









Fortunately, I have lots of support from my husband, but nonetheless I do at times become extremely frustrated to the point of tears. I can only imagine how challening it is for Moms who are either single or do not have much support, or are under a lot of additional stress.

I love the advice about being mindful, taking deep breaths, transporting yourself to a relaxed state... All very effective (though it takes discipline on my part.)

Anyway, I just wanted to say thank you to all the Moms for sharing your experiences. I find it very encouraging, and think you're GREAT!
Thank you!

P.S. I too at first wondered why this thread was started by someone who never yells and doesn't understand how anyone could -- I agree, that is a bit odd, with all due respect. But then I went on to read all the honest, wise, generous, humble comments and felt like chiming in!


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## hapymom (Sep 28, 2006)

my grandma yelled a lot, and that forced my mom to almost never yell, she was very laid back really, but did get mean, sometimes, and instead of yelling, she'd give the silent treatment....ugh.

I hope I don't yell too much as dd grows up


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## mommyto3girls (May 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *melimel* 
This is a wonderful thread!

We have a son and I do think (this might sound a bit sexist) that generally speaking, mothers to sons have a greater challenge. For example, our son climbs on everything (which is often dangerous), and is also highly independent (a great quality, though a bit scary when he tries to run off -- he's very fast!). Generally, he is much more physically active than most girls his age.

When I read the posts from Moms who write that they cannot understand why/how a Mom would yell, it seems these are the moms with girls only. (most likely why they are unable to understand.) Not to say that these Moms would yell if they had boys! It's just that generally speaking, girls tend to be a bit more calm. (I hope I do not get anyone upset with this comment. I don't mean to!)


I know you put the qualifiers in there, but I do think this is off base. I have seen how boys seem to get rowdier in groups, but I think that has alot to do with social expectations. However, I really believe what you are talking about is individual temperment. This rambunctious behavior may be squashed at a younger age in girls because it is not considered "socially acceptable" My almost 4 year old can hang with the best of them. She runs and hollers and climbs trees, and jumps off of railings, plays sports with the boys, etc. On the flip side our friends so is the one wanting to do puzzles, play board games, etc

I think it really depends on the child and the parent's expectations and attempts to conform to social norms.


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## mackysmama (Jan 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momster* 
So, what non-yelling ways do you all have of getting your family's attention? Try to be specific in answering so we mamas can learn best.

Well, I can't claim to be an expert because yelling is my instinct and I work very hard to fight it. What works for me to get my son's attention is to whisper. It also helps me because it lets me do something different than just repeating the same request over and over and getting frustrated to the point of yelling. When I feel myself getting frustrated, I whisper and just the "something different" seems to get his attention. Another approach that works is to just get up and say "okay, I'm going to do XX, please come and tell me when you are ready to cooperate/listen/etc and then we can do/go XXX" This helps me because I leave the situation and usually he says "okay" right away or he finishes playing and then does what I asked, etc. Not sure if this makes sense but an example of when I would do this is when I'm sitting there asking him to get his underwear on over and over and he's ignoring me or when we're in the bathroom to brush his teeth but he's playing with the soap, etc.


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## primjillie (May 4, 2004)

To answer a few questions about "non-yellers", I do have two boys and a girl and I wasn't more likely to yell at the boys, even though they were livelier. About getting their attention, if they didn't listen - I just went over to them to talk to them and redirect if necessary. It is what we call "get off your butt parenting". (We call it that when my son yells at this daughter from the sofa or whatever, my daughter tells him to get off his butt and deal with her lol).


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

DH yells at me and then I go, "Stop yelling at me," and then he goes, "I'm not yelling." Sometimes I tell DC nicely that she can't do something that she feels guilty about and she'll say, "Stop yelling at me."

My point is what some of you all are talking about now. I do think people experience yelling differently and that yelling means different things for different people.

Becoming the Parent You Want to Be covers this issue, I think. She talks about the cultural differences in communicating. I think it's an important issue to consider.


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## IncaMama (Jun 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KristiMetz* 
It comes across as condescending to start a thread and say "I don't have any trouble with yelling. I don't really understand parents who do." and then solicit input from people who DO have trouble with it.

I mean, what is the point of the thread?


i *completely* agree with you, Kristi. I have had a bad taste in my mouth this entire time. The rest of the thread has been great because of those who have replied, but i think that it fails to overshadow the seemingly condescending tone of the OP.


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## captain crunchy (Mar 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IncaMama* 
i *completely* agree with you, Kristi. I have had a bad taste in my mouth this entire time. The rest of the thread has been great because of those who have replied, but i think that it fails to overshadow the seemingly condescending tone of the OP.

...It's kind of like going into the PPD forum and starting a post "my emotions were completely even-keeled, stable and happy post partum and if I ever felt depressed I would feel so guilty and horrible...but I haven't...because it has been all gravy...tell me about your depression!"
















It is nice to read the sharing and helping of mamas who struggle with yelling. I have only raised my voice to my daughter a couple of times (thank God) but like another poster mentioned, it was more a frustrated or scared reaction "the stove is hot!!!" or one or two "what is WRONGGGGG" after trying to comfort the 100th meltdown of the hour over (seemingly) nothing







: --- so it isn't ideal, but it is a far cry from anything verbally abusive. I honestly don't beat myself up about it and the mamas who think they are somehow *better* or more *loving* mamas because they would be wracked with devestating guilt are only (imo) falling into mama martyr syndrome which, though we all fall prey at one time or another, is not healthy or productive (imo).

The literally handful of times I have raised my voice to my daughter, I have felt badly about (temporarily) but then moved on, vowing to work harder on my coping mechanisms.

...and you know what? If nothing else, she knows that hey, mama is human too, she gets frustrated (impatient, scared) occasionally, but she doesn't say mean things to me, doesn't withdraw love, doesn't lash out, and when that split second is over -- we can be okay and happy again.

Furthermore, I think a world, childhood, relationship, without the *occasional* frustration is a false one. Someone is not being authentic because in the scheme of a lifetime (hopefully) of a relationship with someone -- someone is *bound* to feel frustrated or scared, or impatient -- and while I DO NOT AT ALL condone belittling, shaming, intimidation, threats, verbal abuse -- I honestly don't think the rare "stop a car is coming!!!" or "You drew crayon all over my new clothes!" with a slightly raised, irked tone is not going to do permanent emotional damage. Like a poster said... it is not ideal, but no one is perfect...even seemingly perfect mamas who never yell


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## melimel (Sep 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommyto3girls* 
I know you put the qualifiers in there, but I do think this is off base. I have seen how boys seem to get rowdier in groups, but I think that has alot to do with social expectations. However, I really believe what you are talking about is individual temperment. This rambunctious behavior may be squashed at a younger age in girls because it is not considered "socially acceptable" My almost 4 year old can hang with the best of them. She runs and hollers and climbs trees, and jumps off of railings, plays sports with the boys, etc. On the flip side our friends so is the one wanting to do puzzles, play board games, etc

I think it really depends on the child and the parent's expectations and attempts to conform to social norms.

Oh, yeah! Definitely. For example, there is a little girl in our playgroup who has more energy than any boy I've met. So, yes, it was definitely a generalized statement that I made.

Our son is actually not stereotypical. He doesn't show any interest in trucks, balls, and is quite gentle. But he is physical (loves to wrestle!), which is healthy and normal.


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## melimel (Sep 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *captain crunchy* 
...and you know what? If nothing else, she knows that hey, mama is human too, she gets frustrated (impatient, scared) occasionally, but she doesn't say mean things to me, doesn't withdraw love, doesn't lash out, and when that split second is over -- we can be okay and happy again.

Furthermore, I think a world, childhood, relationship, without the *occasional* frustration is a false one. Someone is not being authentic because in the scheme of a lifetime (hopefully) of a relationship with someone -- someone is *bound* to feel frustrated or scared, or impatient -- and while I DO NOT AT ALL condone belittling, shaming, intimidation, threats, verbal abuse ...-- I honestly don't think the rare "stop a car is coming!!!" or "You drew crayon all over my new clothes!" with a slightly raised, irked tone is not going to do permanent emotional damage. Like a poster said... it is not ideal, but no one is perfect...even seemingly perfect mamas who never yell









Love, Love, Love the points you've made! Thank you!


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## CTMOMOF2 (Aug 7, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IncaMama* 
i *completely* agree with you, Kristi. I have had a bad taste in my mouth this entire time. The rest of the thread has been great because of those who have replied, but i think that it fails to overshadow the seemingly condescending tone of the OP.

I also completely agree w/you inca and kristi... but it did turn out to be a good thread in spite of the OP's intentions...

One other thing i wanted to mention...Yelling and belittling are two different things. I could say "Please! Get your Shoes ON!" in a very loud voice, being that i asked already 20 times without results... that is yelling, and i don't think that anyone is being hurt by it, other than noise pollution. If i said something in a nice small voice like "is ther something wrong w/you that you can't seem to get your shoes on" that would be quiet, but belittling...and in my opinion, wrong. I don't think it is sooo horrible to yell, it is just not nice. And living in a perfect world, we'd all get our points across w/out yelling, but in the real world, we get in a hurry and kids don't get the urgency as fast as we might and yelling happens... I don't want to yell, i just do. I also don't want to leave a mess behind to clean up later, but i have to... i don't want to be out on the run all day, but i am all the time! I have been making a conscience effort to stop yelling, but it is really hard work!!!!


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## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

I've been following this thread closely and have been so heartwarmed by people's responses. I felt so proud and happy that the thread I had started had led to the open supportive discussion that it did. People's candor and good insights have inspired me to respond a half a dozen times, but I've been preoccupied with another issue which I've addressed on a different thread.

Your words are very unkind and completely out of line. Please don't refer to me any further.


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## Nora'sMama (Apr 8, 2005)

Captain Crunchy, great post. You are a very thoughtful mama.


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## mbravebird (May 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *geekgolightly* 
but what do you do with what is welling up inside? fuming silence and all that tension is worse, and when it's welling up inside i literally have no place to go. no where to safely let all of those emotions out of my body.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaS* 
I am VERY interested in real, practical tools for eliminating the yelling in my home. I understand occasional frustrations coming out. But what is happening here is way too excessive and stressing everyone out.

Kathy and Tanya (and anyone else who is interested), I just wanted to share with you a thread with ideas that have really helped me in the months since I've read it. It involves responses by sledg to a question I asked in post #36 about what healthy anger looks like. (Sledg, I hope it's OK to link to this??) Here's the link: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...=482155&page=2

I still return to this thread to remind myself of what sledg articulated. I have found it very valuable.


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## geekgolightly (Apr 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *abac* 
Kathy, have you considered counselling? I also find regular yoga very calming. For me, anger and frustration is most often a result a result of unrealistic expectations which inevitably lead to disappointment. I find it's very important for me to avoid those situations that make my blood boil. Knowing my triggers has helped. For those that I can't avoid, taking some deep, cleansing breaths helps.

I try very hard to remind myself that I have the ability to make a given situation better or worse, depending on my reaction. This can be very hard to do in the heat of the moment, but if I can stop myself BEFORE I get too worked up, it's much easier.


i know my background is rather extreme, but it still makes me laugh when someone goes straight to the counseling suggestion. i probably crack up bc its so uncomfortable. it might help in this instance. ive gotten over so much without counselling (abusive adult relationships, drug addiction, alcoholism, smoking) but the paranoia, anger and overeating ive yet to conquer. since seth is involved now (i still cant believed i yelled like that. ive been tormented by it these past 24 hours) i should probably seek counselling.

as for the suggestions... i dont know what is unrealistic. i didnt explain much because ultimately it doesnt matter, i should never yell, but seth trashed all of my knitting supplies after i had spent five hours straight with him and then went to the computer to check email. hes a very possessive little person right now. he came up to me laughing and pleased with himself. i guess i could spend every waking moment with my attention focused on him, but frankly, that seems unrealistic not the other way around. is it unrealistic to expect that he not lash out at me? maybe maybe not. i dont know.


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## geekgolightly (Apr 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mbravebird* 
Kathy and Tanya (and anyone else who is interested), I just wanted to share with you a thread with ideas that have really helped me in the months since I've read it. It involves responses by sledg to a question I asked in post #36 about what healthy anger looks like. (Sledg, I hope it's OK to link to this??) Here's the link: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...=482155&page=2

I still return to this thread to remind myself of what sledg articulated. I have found it very valuable.

oh man, mbravebird _thank you so much_ for this link


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## momster (Oct 2, 2005)

thanks for the link to your discussion with sledg about anger and yelling. I found it very insightful and thought-provoking, although I don't know how well I absorbed it. I may have to revisit it a few times.

I especially like the idea of not trying to stop the bad habit when you feel it coming on. I can see that when I feel like yelling, I also have an urge to stop myself, which doesn't help me at all to deal with the frustration or anger and probably makes it more likely that I'll yell. The idea of just noticing the feelings and process - hopefully the next time I'm frustrated and on the verge of yelling I'll be able to invoke sledg.

I'm still loving this thread. I've been reading it every night. Thanks to all the mamas who have been honest or offered suggestions.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

I would also agree there is a difference between loud talk and verbal abuse. There are cultures that value silence and quiet, and cultures that value loud volumous communication. It can just be a question of decibal, not intent.
I have known totally non threatening people who spoke in near-deafening tones. Then I've known people who were loud in a terrifying kind of way--a hateful menacing quality to their tone.

Someone said it's not what you say but how you say it. I would add that it's not what you say but your intent.

I thought of Steve Irwin (Crocodile Hunter) as a very loud person. I bet he yelled constantly around his family (Crikey luv where's the bloomin' cah keys?!). Loudness was just a part of him that made him endearing and interesting. He wasn't threatening at all. Just really loud!


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## CTMOMOF2 (Aug 7, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heartmama* 
(Crikey luv where's the bloomin' cah keys?!).


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