# I wish my child would just disappear, I wish I could give her up for adoption



## lily67 (Nov 4, 2005)

I am so depressed. I wish my oldest child would just disappear. I so regret having her sometimes. She is rude, mean, a handful, and I'm just so tired of her. She is 3. I just avoid her some days. I mean, I just do what needs to be done to make sure her basic needs are met, and then I go about my business and avoid her. She is fine on her own. She doesn't break things or whatever. But when I'm around her, she gets pushy and obnoxious and hurts me. She's been so much work from Day One. She was a baby who woke up every 2 hours all night long, she fought weaning when I really needed to wean her, she's demanding and very strong. I am so sick of her.

I don't know what I'm looking for here. Not really advice, because the specific situations are so varied and so many. But I'm just wanting to tell someone that I wish she would just disappear. I wouldn't do anything to hurt her and I wouldn't want her to be hurt by someone else. I wish I could just give her up for adoption to some nice family who had more patience than I. I am so burnt out with her.


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## nonconformnmom (May 24, 2005)

Your post is sad beyond words. How many other children do you have and what are their ages?


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## Lula's Mom (Oct 29, 2003)

Oh my goodness. I think we all have days when we fantasize about the life we had before kids, when we could do whatever we wanted! But feeling like this day after day points to a bigger problem. You said you're depressed- could that be the cause of much of what you're going through, rather than the end result? I mean, perhaps you have a problem with depression, which is causing you to be short-tempered, irritable, impatient, etc.

You don't say much specifically about your daughter's behavior, but 3 can be a really challenging age even when their behavior is textbook-normal.







Even with my daughter, who seriously is the easiest child I have ever, EVER seen- there have been days that I just wanted to cry. Or did cry.

And of course you know that when you avoid her, she is most likely acting out so that you will have to deal with her. The old saying is "Even negative attention is better than no attention at all." So she just wants her mama. You have to find a way to cope so that you can modify her behavior and your own.

I know I have not been much help. I just wanted you to know that I hear your pain and frustration. I think it was courageous of you to post, and I hope you come back. There are many wise mamas here in all different forums who can help. Visit the Gentle Discipline forum! Visit the Mental Health forum too.


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## Vermillion (Mar 12, 2005)

I feel this way from time to time. 3 is a really tough age! Even more so when you don't have much support. It sounds like you could really use some support right now.


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## boston (Nov 20, 2001)

I've felt like this before. When my dd was a baby, I was like, what have I gotten myself into? If you're feeling like this a lot, please talk to your dr. It sounds like PPD. (Good luck)


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## **guest** (Jun 25, 2004)

Lily, you sound SERIOUSLY depressed. Is there any way for you to get some therapy? Do you have any friends around that you can talk to or get help from? It sounds like you need some mama time.

3 yr olds can be very tiring but this stage won't last forever. Try to keep that in mind. I know that is what I do when my son angers me or gets on my nerves. I'm a single mom so I don't really get a break but, if you can, try to set up a babysitter so you can go off on your own for a few hours.

I found that reading up on child development helps me A LOT. It's better for me to understand why my little guy has become a monster. He was always 'spirited' but now it seems to have gone off the charts.

I'm sure you love your 3 yr old but just need a break. And some help dealing with her.

Feel free to send me a pm (personal message) if ya want to chat.
Hugs,
Liz


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## Alkenny (May 4, 2004)

It does sound like you're burnt out. Do you have a support system? Anyone that could help out for even a day or two so you could collect yourself?


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## CaraboosMama (Mar 31, 2005)

While I'm glad you are able to vent about this - is there anyone in your life who can give you a break? It sound like you need some extra help - for you and your daughter


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## rosie29 (Aug 18, 2004)

I think the mamas above offerred excellent advice. Thinking of you and sending lots of







s your way.


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## j924 (May 17, 2005)

I have no sage advice. I wanted to be a single with no kids for Halloween. I've felt what you feel and have been fighting depression for years now. The Mamas on this board are amazing (even if you are mostly a lurker







) Take some time for you if you can. I am sending healing thoughts to you.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

If you're in MA, you can drop her off at my place for a couple of days. or we could meet in a public place. You sound desperate. You can can email people for my references. While I have her, you need to promise to see someone. A professional something. I know a couple of good folks in MA

Just don't turn out to be an axe murder-er or something.







Trying to make you smile.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Oh my, I have so "been there, done that"! For me, feeling this way is a sure sign that I need to do a couple of things ASAP. The first is figure out a way to get a couple of nights of real sleep -- even if that means begging my DH to take a night of childcare or calling my mother in for a couple of days to help ease the load. The second is that I need to get out and have some time to myself, preferable outside. Again, call in whatever support network you have to get an afternoon to yourself. Even if that means that your children are in a "perfect" care system. Better with a babysitter who lets them watch TV and eat junk food all afternoon than a seriously depressed mommy for the foreseeable future.

If you don't have a support system, then your first step is to figure out how to build one. We can help brainstorm ideas if we have a better sense of your situation.

For ME (emphasis on ME), I get this way if I am doing 24/7 mommyhood (say, when school and preschool are closed for a week). This is, quite frankly, why I work PT. I WOULD become an ax murderer (as UUMom jokes) if I were stuck at home with my two kids all the time. I am very upfront about the fact that I am not cut out for SAHM-ness. Maybe you aren't either. Maybe its time to take stock of your life and figure out where to go next. I don't know anything about you or your situation, but your post is such a cry for help that I'm throwing out ideas. Maybe too much at one time, I don't know. But I do know that its not good for anyone when mommy is as unhappy as you sound.

I know you said you weren't asking for advise, but we're hear to help if you want to isolate one situation and "run it up the flagpole" so to speak. There are some amazingly insightful people here who geniunely want to help. The really cool thing about putting stuff out on these boards is that you get lots of different answers and different opinions. You can sort through things and decide what works for you and what doesn't, but at least you have lots of things to think about and react too.

Hang in there, find some time, get some sleep, and then figure out your next step.


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## vermonttaylors (May 17, 2005)

Oh mama great big







to you. I have been there and I DID adopt my kids







. I really, really went out of my way to become a mama and there are still some days when I think "WHAT WAS I THINKING!!!!"









I would take the other wise mamas advice and seek counceling. I did and it has helped tremendously (that and meds







). Depression is nothing to be ashamed of and I know only to well that it is when you are depressed that it is the hardest to seek help. Please do so you can get back to enjoying your children.

By the way, EVERYBODY I know says that 3 is the hardest. Noone knows why they call it the "terrible twos" because they are easy compared to 3.

You are so brave and honest to seek help here. now just take it that one extra step seek out a pro who can help you feel better. You deserve that!


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vermonttaylors*
By the way, EVERYBODY I know says that 3 is the hardest. Noone knows why they call it the "terrible twos" because they are easy compared to 3.

errr...please god, NO! I can't imagine dd being more of a handful than she is now!!

DS1 was at his most difficult at two, but it definitely varies.

OP: I agree with the pp's. You need to get a break, and you definitely need to see a professional about depression. It can make such an incredible, yet strangely subtle, difference in worldview.


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

I totally understand how you feel. They call it the terrible twos, but when three hits, watch out. Just ride it out is all you acn do, maybe family can take her a few days for you? I hope things will get better.


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## lily67 (Nov 4, 2005)

Thank you for your kind responses. First, I have to say that I'm depressed about feeling this way, not that I'm depressed about other things. I have a great marriage, good family, secure finances, comfortable home, etc. My life is wonderful in just about everything except this child of mine. I also have an 8 month old as well, and she's been a dream baby. Slept all night by 3.5 months (without any "sleep training" on my part) and just a happy, joyful child. I guess I compare the two children too much, first of all.

I do have a support system. We have help with the girls several days a week, and my DH and I have a night out once a week by ourselves. So it's not for lack of support that I feel so frustrated with my oldest child.

She is just so pushy and obnoxious sometimes. With me, my DH and the baby, too. She was this way before the baby was born, so I believe it's basically her personality that is my problem, not her new sister. She fights everything - mealtime, potty breaks, getting dressed, getting in the car, etc. I have tried all the things suggested here to deal with a spirited child, but I'm so burnt out of the daily, hourly, sometimes every 10 minutes of battles. And believe me, I'm trying to choose my battles. I walk on eggshells all day with her. I feel like a prisoner in my own home. I have to CONSTANTLY think about what I'm going to say to her, how I'm going to present something new, just waiting for her screaming and arguing and fighting, etc. It's just soooo tiring.

She is rude to us, and her grandparents and lots of other people. She can't have someone walk in the room without screaming at them. And her screams mean "Go away!" She bites us, hurts us and laughs about it. The consequences we have set up don't seem to affect her. I know, I know, that 3 is a hard age and all that. But I am so tired of her. I know you all can't really help me without specifics from me. But I wish I could have some advice in general for her. I just dream sometimes about how nice life would be without her. How maybe I could just take her outside and maybe she would wander off and I wouldn't have to deal with her anymore. Not that I would actually do that. But the images that run through my head really worry me sometimes.


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## ayme371 (Jan 5, 2005)

Reading your post makes me think there may be a little more going on with your dd. I am a teacher and have several students who do some of the things you have described. It is called ODD oppositional defiance disorder. I am by no means trying to diagnose your dd but noticed some red flags as I was reading. I would talk to your ped and voice your concerns if you have not already. He may be able to refer to a child psychologist.
I am sure it is tough some days but keep showing your dd lots of love.


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

My older daughter is also a much more difficult child than my younger daughter, and 3 was a tough age. I found this book very helpful: Setting Limits with your Strong-Willed Child:Eliminating Conflict by Establishing Clear, Firm, and Respectful Boundaries, by Robert J. MacKenzie, Ed.D. Your library might have it.


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## 2crazykids (Jun 19, 2005)

Did you ever try "killing" her with kindness? I MEAN KILLING THE NEGATIVE BEHAVIOR!! NOT ACTUALLY HURTING ANY PERSON. You know what I mean right???

When my 3yo acts out negatively I do my best to ignore the negative behavior and focus on the positive only. Every time he does something great he gets huge hugs and kisses lots and lots of positive response.

Have you tried spending quality time with her alone? doing an outing/activity jsut for her with her? Sounds like you are all in a bad cycle of negative/destrucitve behavior.


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

It sounds like you need to get your dd evaluated to rule out any issues she may have. She may have some inborn behavioral issues that you can help her with. Secondly, I think you need to find a counselor to rule out any issues you may have. There's nothing to be embarassed by if you have issues. . . we all do at some point in our lives.

Your dd1 can probably sense that you don't like her and she's acting out on that. She's not mature enough to sit down and analyze it and work through it.

Children are so different. I have one who is very challenging and spirited. Moreso in her first 3 years but even now sometimes. My second child is very mellow and easygoing. I love them both so much. I love dd1 because of her unique gifts and I love dd2 for hers. They cannot be compared. No child should ever be compared with a sibling. I'm sure if you think hard you can find some things that your dd1 does that you are proud of and amazed by.

Your dd1 may need more structure in her life, more routine. Or she may need less. Try restructuring her day so she knows exactly what to expect at certain times of the day. She needs 1 on 1 time with you, too. She needs a time where she can choose the activity that you do with her, such a game or playing with her favorite toys. Since your baby is such a good sleeper, you can do this when the baby is napping.

Good luck. I hope you get some help soon. Your family sounds like you really need some support and help.


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## RedWine (Sep 26, 2003)

I was starting to feel this way about my oldest, and it turns out I have ppd. Now that I'm being treated for it, my love for her has returned a thousandfold. And you know what? Her behavior has dramatically improved. She was picking up on my negative feelings and acting out, probably because she thought I didn't like or love her anymore.

Please, please go see someone for help. Life does not have to be this way. You and your children deserve happy lives together, and it IS possible to have that -- please go get help.


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## Medusa (Mar 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ayme371*
Reading your post makes me think there may be a little more going on with your dd. I am a teacher and have several students who do some of the things you have described. It is called ODD oppositional defiance disorder. I am by no means trying to diagnose your dd but noticed some red flags as I was reading. I would talk to your ped and voice your concerns if you have not already. He may be able to refer to a child psychologist.
I am sure it is tough some days but keep showing your dd lots of love.

I want to second the suggestion of ODD. A dear friend of mine has a child with ODD and let me tell you before she was diagnosed and got treatment she was at least as bad as your describing your daughter...to the point of actually killing a pet. I was afraid to have her near my child...and even wondered if she was going to grow up to be a serial killer







.
Since being diagnosed and treated this child has blossomed into the sweetest most respectful person! The transformation is amazing...mind you it's taken a couple of years and she still has her moments where you can see her struggling to control herself... she works hard at it and is now a joy to be around.
Please seek help for you daughter...not only for you and your family...but for her. Image how differant her life could be...from her point of view.


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## Shonahsmom (Mar 23, 2004)

When my dd was 3 1/2 to almost 5 she was struggling with undiagnosed sensory issues. I just thought she had turned into a demon child. I used to start crying as soon as I opened my eyes in the morning at the thought of dealing with her because it was so hard ALL of the time. I was so angry at her all the time that even when she was having a good moment I couldn't engage with her... I was too burnt out to feel any goodness towards her.I remember calling my sister, crying so hard I couldn't breathe, telling her to stay on the phone with me because if left to my own devices I was going to give dd away to the first person I saw on the street.

When she was diagnosed, the occupational therapist really, really stressed how hard it was for dd and how much she did not want to be behaving the way she was and that it was very scary for her to feel so out of control and very sad for her to have her mommy be angry and tense all the time. She said the number one thing that was going to help her learn to manage her sensory issues was unconditional support and empathy from me. The OT really stressed that I needed to flip a switch in my brain, that she could not help the way she was acting and that she needed to be helped, validated and supported. It totally sunk in and I became the queen of empathy and support for dd. The results were evidently immediately (albeit slow and steady). I made a concerted effort to speak gently and softly at all times, to continously reinforce my love for her, to compliment her to the moon and back when she handled getting dressed well or expressed to me calmly that she was having a hard time with the clothes she put on, etc..I made an effort to touch her a lot, make a lot of direct and sustained eye contact throughout the day when we talked, to be silly with her, to play, sing, dance, go out to dinner for special "mommy daughter dates".. just a lot of little stuff to build our bond back up and reassure her that she was loved no matter what.

I can't even believe today that I once felt the way I did about her - almost hateful. Now, we are two happy peas in a pod. Her sensory issues are largely under control and our connection is tight and loving and she's an absolute source of joy to me.

I'm not indicating that I think your dd has a sensory issue... I'm saying there could be something going on that she needs your help with. I would contact your ped and get a referral to have her evaluated.


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## gottaknit (Apr 30, 2004)

I think you've gotten some good advice here. It sounds like you are really struggling to maintain your sanity.







:

The way you describe your daughter reminds me of my oldest sister. She is 39 years old now, but this is exactly how my mom and older siblings describe her as a child. Unfortunately, she never got "better", and my mom regrets never getting her some kind of treatment or counseling. She is now estranged from the family and it makes us all sad, but it also makes our lives a lot easier (which makes us feel horribly guilty...














)

I hope you find some professional help for yourself and your children, and partner. I think it is entirely possible to turn this situation around and all be happier together.







Good luck.


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## mommyofshmoo (Oct 25, 2004)

ITA with the previous posts that advised you get her evaluated and seek professional advice of some kind for both her and yourself.

My oldest has her really difficult moments, so I can relate. However, what you describe is not a normal feeling and your situation sounds unacceptable and like it won't get better without your doing something to change it.

Whether your dd has ODD or sensory issues or whatever else, your avoidance of her and negative feelings towards her will seriously damage her selnse of self over time. As she picks up on your feelings, she is likely behaving worse and worse. It is a bad cycle and you need to deal with it. Avoidance is not going to help anyone.

If your child was physically ill, you would take her to a doctor. This is the same thing. Something is wrong, and she needs help. So do you.


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## jgreer (May 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USAmma*
It sounds like you need to get your dd evaluated to rule out any issues she may have. She may have some inborn behavioral issues that you can help her with. Secondly, I think you need to find a counselor to rule out any issues you may have. There's nothing to be embarassed by if you have issues. . . we all do at some point in our lives.

I totally agree with this statement. My sister was like this, and my mother could not control her. It was a horrible situation for both of them.

Now, 30 some odd years later, my sister has been disgnosed as bi-polar. She is currently getting treatment, but still has really bad days.

This needs to be nipped in the bud ASAP.

My sister's situation, led most of my family to believe that she was a trouble maker and a b*tch, when in reality it was her condition. As a result, she has suffered greatly (emotionally), and she and my mom still have on going issues that they're trying to work out in their relationship.

Please, for everyone's sake, get your daughter evaluated and seek counseling on how to control a strong willed child.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

So do you have any sort of plan? ignoring and avioding her isn't going to help. I don't have any spectacular ideas







My first resonse when my chidlren are showing any undesirable behaviors is to pull them close and start teaching the moer appropriate behaviors. and by closer I mean sometimes within arms reach every waking moment including when i go to the bathroom. some other options is preschool for a break for you and a treat for her. you may have more energy to deal with her if you can get 3-4 hours off each day. Also you may want to seek some sort of counseling. find out if there is something up with her and maybe have someone evaluate noth of you and see if there are some personality traits that cause friction (I believe 3 years old is when I took a quiz that showed dd had some personality traits that just clashed.)

but ignoring it won't help. you must take some sort of action to start changing and dealing with things.


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## motherbug (Aug 8, 2005)

I am not claiming to be a Doctor, however, your daughter sounds like she could have undetected food/environmental allergies.

There is an AMAZING book called "Is this your Child?" by Doris Rapp.
It is for children who are complaining, cranky, slow-learners, aggressive, hyperactive, unwell or depressed. It is for discovering and treating unrecognized allergies.

The way you have described your daughter is EXACTLY how some of the children who were studied in this book sounded like.......

I don't think it could hurt to try it, and you would be so so amazed at what undetected food allergies could make a child behave like: i.e. mean, biting, hiting, screaming, etc. Please don't write it off as bad character or bad parenting or bad anything........it really could be symptoms to allergens.

Hope this helps!!

(it helped alot with my middle child, who suffers from food/environmental allergies. He can turn from a sweet cuddly boy to GODZILLA in an instant when he eats certain trigger foods)

Chris mom to Ryan







Jordan (aka Godzilla)







and Olivia








Wife to Scott







dog-mother to Roxy







and cat mother to Max


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## The Lucky One (Oct 31, 2002)

First of all, your honesty in describing a very painful situation is impressive. But, this statement:

Quote:

But the images that run through my head really worry me sometimes.
is very troubling and disturbing to me. Please make sure your dd is in a safe place and seek some professional help for yourself. This isn't something that is going to fix itself, in fact, I only see things getting worse.

Please please get help. PM me if I can personally do anything to help you.


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## katsam (Mar 3, 2005)

First of all







. Secondly, If you have insureance, or are on medicaid, I think you might want to call a private counselor, or a community mental health center and get some family counseling, as well as possible counseling for your dd. If you feel this worn out, and she is this much of a struggle daily, it seems like something else could be going on besides her just being spirited. I work for an agency that starts counseling with kids as young as three, and I believe the earlier you get help, the better it is for everyone.


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## Live~Laugh~Love (Dec 21, 2004)

(((hugs)))


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## starlein26 (Apr 28, 2004)

sorry to hear that you're at wits end. i hope you can find a way to resolve your stress and depression! i wish you the very best!


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

I have heard that women who have histories of childhood abuse often will have very difficult times with PPD. And children certainly have a way of pushing our hot buttons. I had experienced abuse as a child and when our son would grab me without notice, even for a hug, I would experience a viceral fight or flight emotional response. His flailing arms or hands which hit me, or moving his legs into me in a forceful manner that felt like kicking, was even worse.

I sought personal counselling to explore and understand my reactions. I am not saying the problem is yours. I am saying that the possibility exists that some behaviors that your daughter is exhibiting may be unearthing some viceral emotional reactions that need to be explored or understood. It took me understanding why I was reacting to his behavior for me to learn how to put his behavior into perspective. I have been working to learn how to react to him in a calm manner because this is critical to not escalating his reactions to me.

Several books have helped me:

Peace Is Every Step
The Dance of Anger
Kids, Parents and Power Struggles
The Explosive Child
The Sensitive Child (you might find that she is hyper sensitive to stimuli and is acting out of overstimulation in an uncontrolled manner of distress)
How To Talk so Kids will Listen, How to Listen so Kids will Talk
ANGER, by Thich Nhat Hanh

The Feingold Diet helped us tremendously too with ds's aggressive behaviors. They were associated with dairy consumption, corn syrup (especially high fructose corn syrup, not sugar), artificial colors: red and yellow.

This will pass with help. I am not big on psych evaluations of children. I found that my adult counselling indirectly altered my child's behavior.

Pat


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## GranoLLLy-girl (Mar 1, 2005)

Shonahsmom--what a sensitive post. My dd (3&1/2) has SIDs and I felt this way, too---and I did what you did. We went through a couple years of OT and speech therapy--and *I* did an about face, too--and things have dramatically improved. Thank you for sharing your post, Shonahsmom. Your comments are so honest and so true.

I also second the suggestion of the book: Is This Your Child by Doris Rapp. Good read, possible allergies can cause surprising personality issues. I read it was suggested by our OT that allergies might be a hidden cause of some of my dd's personality issues.

To the OP, please seek professional help for your dd--start with your regular ped if you don't know where else to go. If I were you, I would ask to have a consultation with her ped where she won't be present, so you can talk candidly and without your child hearing what you have to say. I know that my 3 yr. old is well aware of what we say to AND about her.

And thank you for sharing--it takes a lot of courage to open up about something like this.


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## momof4peppers (May 31, 2005)

I'm so sorry you're having such a hard time. Have you tried asking DD what she thinks might help? Along the lines of "it makes mommy really sad when you X,Y or Z. I'd like us to have a harmonious home life. What do you think we can do to help you NOT X,Y or z?" Or pick ONE thing that she does and focus on changing that behavior. For us, we discovered that DDs favorite playmate was the source for a good chunk of negative behavior. She was modelling what she saw her friend do. So I've spent an inordinate amount of time trying to arrange other playdates for our DD. And it's worked somewhat.

Hugs to you. I hope you're able to find something that works.


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## Pandora114 (Apr 21, 2005)

I second the evaluation, food allergies, to a SID/Defiance problem. Any NUMBER of things can cause a kid to turn into someone that is not extremely nice to be around...

And please do get some counselling for yourself too. Even if your DD is just normally spirited, you need some counselling to deal with your feelings. You could very well have PPD.

But even if you dont. It's good to get some counselling/support while dealing with an extremely high needs child. You need an impartial outlet for your feelings....


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## mama2monkeys (Oct 3, 2005)

I just wanted to tell you you are doing the right thing first off by admitting these feelings & that you have some issues in your home. I also agree that an evaluation for both of you would help. I am a mama of 3 who has & had alot of issues growing up & into adulthood. I can very much relate to your post. It is disturbing indeed that any one would make comments such as her wandering off outside & not coming back etc... to me that reminds me of the severe ppd. Are their any other issues within you that might be causing your dd to act out?? Sometimes it is just our types of moods & responses that can trigger a life long hardship for our kids.

I had alot of hard times over the years... I finally after ruinging my marriage & having many issues sought help for my self. I was diagnosed with bi-polar, add/adhd, ocd, & sad... i am on meds & feel amazing. I know somtimes we have certain of our kids that are hard work & seem to fight on everything. I have a special needs son & some days my goodness.... but thanks to my medication, the help of his OT & PT as well as his special preschool we manage. Some days though i get into crying fits because his SID & other issues are so intense... I take alittle brake & try to reapproach the siruation positively... this does help alot.


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## RiverSky (Jun 26, 2005)

Storm Bride said:


> errr...please god, NO! I can't imagine dd being more of a handful than she is now!!
> 
> DS1 was at his most difficult at two, but it definitely varies.
> QUOTE]
> ...


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## fire_lady (Aug 24, 2005)

for you mama.
I just hope things will be easies for you.
Good luck and be strong.


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## mamasaurus (Jun 20, 2004)

I'm so sorry you have to go through this.


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

s

My DD was like that...she never slept and she nursed until she was four.


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## lily67 (Nov 4, 2005)

So, it sounds like what a lot of you are saying is that something is wrong with either me or DD or both of us. It's been suggested that I might have PPD, or that DD might have ODD, or a sensory problem, or food allergies, or something else.

I don't know if I have PPD. I was not depressed at all after the birth of our second child. It was a great birth, she's a great baby, and I had tons of help. If there is anything I feel sad about, it's this: When my first daughter was born, I was running a business. I just couldn't keep the business going with her. She was so demanding, so high-needs, and I ended up shutting down the business. I was very, very depressed about that. I really put my heart and soul into it. I was also very nervous about becoming a Mom, because my own relationship with my Mom was not very good. And I had a very traumatic birth. I kind of feel that my DD and I did not start off on the best footing. Is it possible that I have PPD still hanging on from her birth? That's 3 years ago now. I don't know if it's PPD so much, as just having a horrific birth, having a difficult baby, losing my business, and hardly sleeping for a year!

As far as DD's problems - well, I don't know. It would take a lot of time and effort to go through all the counseling and food allergy testing, etc., before I would know. But I know that if I found out something substantial it would be worth it.

I know some of you think I'm off the deep end with my comments about having her wander off, etc. Please don't misunderstand me. I am not some whacked-out person. I am the Mom of a spirited, strong-willed, difficult, high-needs, whatever-you-want-to-call-her child.


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## boston (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lily67*
So, it sounds like what a lot of you are saying is that something is wrong with either me or DD or both of us. It's been suggested that I might have PPD, or that DD might have ODD, or a sensory problem, or food allergies, or something else.

I don't know if I have PPD. I was not depressed at all after the birth of our second child. It was a great birth, she's a great baby, and I had tons of help. If there is anything I feel sad about, it's this: When my first daughter was born, I was running a business. I just couldn't keep the business going with her. She was so demanding, so high-needs, and I ended up shutting down the business. I was very, very depressed about that. I really put my heart and soul into it. I was also very nervous about becoming a Mom, because my own relationship with my Mom was not very good. And I had a very traumatic birth. I kind of feel that my DD and I did not start off on the best footing. Is it possible that I have PPD still hanging on from her birth? That's 3 years ago now. I don't know if it's PPD so much, as just having a horrific birth, having a difficult baby, losing my business, and hardly sleeping for a year!

As far as DD's problems - well, I don't know. It would take a lot of time and effort to go through all the counseling and food allergy testing, etc., before I would know. But I know that if I found out something substantial it would be worth it.

I know some of you think I'm off the deep end with my comments about having her wander off, etc. Please don't misunderstand me. I am not some whacked-out person. I am the Mom of a spirited, strong-willed, difficult, high-needs, whatever-you-want-to-call-her child.

lily67, hey look --having PPD doesn't mean you're "whacked-out." that's a pretty harsh thing to say to dozens of women posting their PPD experiences in support of you, doncha think? yes, depression absolutely can be a problem 3 years post baby. PPD can show up months and months post childbirth, in fact. and left untreated it can last for years. PPD absolutely can be triggered by a traumatic birth, a high needs baby, and other life altering events. That's how I got mine, in fact. So please don't call me whacked out. I recovered, and so can you.

Please find out what PPD is before you rule it out.
See a Dr.
Ignore Tom Cruise.


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boston*
lily67, hey look --having PPD doesn't mean you're "whacked-out." that's a pretty harsh thing to say to dozens of women posting their PPD experiences in support of you, doncha think? yes, depression absolutely can be a problem 3 years post baby. PPD can show up months and months post childbirth, in fact. and left untreated it can last for years. PPD absolutely can be triggered by a traumatic birth, a high needs baby, and other life altering events. That's how I got mine, in fact. So please don't call me whacked out. I recovered, and so can you.

Please find out what PPD is before you rule it out.
See a Dr.
Ignore Tom Cruise.

I really don't think that the OP meant that people with PPD were 'whacked out'. I took it to mean that we shouldnt worry that she's going to do something to her dd - that she's being honest about how she feels but is totally in control of her behaviour to her child and is not going to harm her. I think the last thing this mum needs is to have people take offence at what she is saying about herself.









Lily, it seems to me that you need to get your dd evaluated asap, and maybe see someone about yourself too. It is only when you have information that you will be able to work out what is causing this cycle of behaviours and emotions, and then be able to make a plan for dealing with it all.

Hang in there, and do seek help as soon as possible. NObody should feel this way, and there has to be a cause that you can address.


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## boston (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Britishmum*
I really don't think that the OP meant that people with PPD were 'whacked out'. I took it to mean that we shouldnt worry that she's going to do something to her dd - that she's being honest about how she feels but is totally in control of her behaviour to her child and is not going to harm her. I think the last thing this mum needs is to have people take offence at what she is saying about herself.









Just to get the record straight here, everyone who has PPD isn't out of control, or in danger of harming their children. I wasn't worried about that with this mama. I am worried that a negative stigma in regard to PPD might prevent a woman from getting help she needs, though. I know I'm not "whacked out." I'm not offended. I just want to make sure that we're all talking about the same thing, here.


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## the5dunlaps (Mar 5, 2003)

Mama, your dd sounds JUST like my ds, and he has sensory Integration Disorder.
Now that we have figured out there is a problem and know more what to do he is like a DIFFERENT child.
I too feel like the other mama who's child has SID who said they look back and remember and can't imagine it being that bad again.
Please please get her evaluated by an Occupational Therapist. There are SIMPLE easy things to do to help if this is something she has.
My son is a tender precious loving boy Most of the time, when he used to be CONSTANTLY angry, mean, disrespectful and disruptive to the whole family.
Hugs, my heart goes out to you. I remember how hard it was and I really pray that you get her evaluated.


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## lily67 (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boston*
lily67, hey look --having PPD doesn't mean you're "whacked-out." that's a pretty harsh thing to say to dozens of women posting their PPD experiences in support of you, doncha think? yes, depression absolutely can be a problem 3 years post baby. PPD can show up months and months post childbirth, in fact. and left untreated it can last for years. PPD absolutely can be triggered by a traumatic birth, a high needs baby, and other life altering events. That's how I got mine, in fact. So please don't call me whacked out. I recovered, and so can you.

Please find out what PPD is before you rule it out.
See a Dr.
Ignore Tom Cruise.

Boston - You are absolutely misunderstanding me. I did not say that women with PPD were whacked-out. You took my 2nd paragraph and my last paragraph and incorrectly linked them together. I was simply trying to let everyone know that I would not do something horrible to my daughter, not making a statement on women with PPD. I do not have a negative view of PPD. I think Tom Cruise is nuts. If I have PPD, it's fine. I'd rather figure that out than be miserable.


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## coleslaw (Nov 11, 2002)

I'm so glad you have come back and posted and reposted.

I had PPD from both a tramatic birth experience and from a high-needs baby. She's now almost 5. It took the birth of my angel baby Grace this year (stillborn) to heal the wounds from the tramatic birth. I still can have issues with dd's personality and high needs, but I work on it everyday (OK, most days). She picks up on every mood I have and morphs into me, which can be great on good days, but awful on bad ones. When she was three though, I was still in a state of going crazy.

My point is that yes you can still have PPD years after her birth. Personally, I think you should get counseling or somehow find a way to work through those feelings you have of her that come from her early days. I completely understand why you have them, I promise you, but they need to go as she was just an innocent little baby. Although your intentions may have been good and right in focusing your attention on her, YOU made the choice to dissolve your business. It's not her fault. And you can change how you look at her and how you treat her even at her worst. If it takes couseling, medication, babysitters, Reiki, quantum touch healing (this is supposed to be amazing!), whatever, do what it takes, from your sake and for hers. Life is too short and so is her childhood.

With that said, I am glad someone brought up food allergies (I'm sure some of the other suggestions are possible too). When my dd has milk products, she gets aggressive and out of control sometimes. Then of course, I gt in a bad mood, which goes to her mood which starts a negative cycle until I break it. Please get her to someone who can get her situation figured out. I sincerely hope you and your dd find a way to each other.


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## MsChatsAlot (Sep 8, 2005)

It sounds to me like you are grieving. You have communicated negative feelings about her birth, having to close your business, having her be so high needs. Grief is about loss. You lost your business, you lost a happy experience with her because she was high needs. You lost the perfect birth. You lost sleep. I would guess that these things have affected the way you have parented her (not intentionally, of course) and part of her knows that you have resented her in different ways. There may be other things involved, like things that have been mentioned already, or she may just be depserately trying to find some love and attention.

I speak of this because I had grieved and had difficult working through things with my son. I was a terribly nervous mom. My son was very high needs. He nursed every HOUR for 3 years. I had almost no sleep ever. He had to be held. He couldn't nap alone. If I got up, he would cry and scream. It was difficult. He also developed health problems and I felt judged by everyone. I felt like, "Why did I have to have this? Why don't I have the "perfect" baby?" Why ME?

It was a process that I had to go through and I needed help to do it. I had to recognize that I was grieving and I had to accept that I was part of the problem. As long as I saw my son as "deficient" or "lacking" I wasn't loving him fully or accepting him for him. It wasn't his fault. It wasn't my fault. It just was. This is my child and only I can choose if I can let go of the "what if's" (the past, the resentment, the guilt, the fear, etc.) and fully accept him for all that he is.

I did manage to do this and am so grateful. It was work on my part but it made all the difference and more.

If you asked my advice, I'd suggest getting some help. If you don't work through these issues and now with your 8 month old being the "perfect" baby, the problems are likely going to increase and get worse. Your older child may end up with bigger problems and may resent the sibling which could lead to many issues with jealouse and your younger child will grow up feel like the special one which could create a whole other set of problems.

I have two children too and the first was high needs and full of challenges and my youngest was very peaceful and calm. Too extremes. It is hard not to compare at times, but I know I have to love them both for who they are and if you are struggling with loving and accepting your child for who she is, it is definitely worth the effort (in my mind) to seek some help and resolve whatever is going on.

Whatever you do, I will send much love and peace to your family. I know the pain that I felt wishing my child was not sick, or small or high needs. And I know the peace and love I felt when I realized this and broke free and finally loved him completely.

I hope you find peace on this journey.


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## Finch (Mar 4, 2005)

I agree w/the pp, it sounds like your dd definitely has something going on. I had feelings like yours when my ds was very young, when he had colic and reflux, and before we knew he had sensory integration dysfunction. I had severe ppd, and there were days when it was so hard...I thought to myself, "what were you thinking, having a baby?" I loved/love him to pieces, and the thought of him not being in my life made me physically ill, but at the same time I was just so TIRED of dealing with him. I was exhausted. I was already under the care of a psychiatrist though (I have a history of depression), so we caught the ppd pretty quickly and got new medication to help. That took care of me, but ds remained the difficult child he was (woke up to nurse every 1.5-2 hours until he was about 8-9 mos. old), and he was getting worse.

At his 1 year well baby visit, I pretty much flat out demanded he get an evaluation for sensory issues and feeding issues, so our pediatrician reluctantly gave us a referral. Lo and behold, I was right. We started getting him treatment, first with occupational therapy once a week, then a few months later we got early intervention involved and he now gets play therapy and speech therapy too.

He is still a tough kid. But knowing the reasons _why_ he does what he does and how I can help him has helped ME tremendously. Having a diagnosis and having HELP in the form of therapists and my online support group has made all the difference in the world.

I urge you to please ask that your daughter be evaluated either by an occupational therapist or a developmental pediatrician, and YOU get yourself evaluated for depression. I think it will help you both. Don't be ashamed of getting treatment and asking for help.


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## candiland (Jan 27, 2002)

My dd was EXACTLY like this. Exactly.

She will be six years old next month. She has developed into the kindest, sweestest, most brilliant child I have ever encountered. She started Kindergarten this year and her teachers are blown away by her. It is truly a miracle.

I used to want her to "have" a diagnosis. She was soooo far from happy, content, or normal. As I used to joke, she was born screaming and didn't stop for the first few years of life. lol Seriously, she was super, intensely shy and emotional as an infant... very rarely smiled or laughed, just sat back and analyzed everything going on around her. She also screamed and cried hysterically 'til four a.m. every night for the first few months of life.

Talk about depression and PPD!!!!! To top all of it off, I was undiagnosed bipolar. I had days where I wanted to die and would leave her in her crib screaming so I didn't hurt her.

It is these kids.... the ones who are the most work and who require every ounch of strength and determination you never even thought you had... that have the potential to be the most brilliant, creative, and loving individuals.

One thing you need to keep in mind... REFUSE TO WALK ON EGGSHELLS AROUND HER. Stand up straight. Wake up every morning, look in the mirror, and firmly say to yourself: "I AM IN CHARGE OF MY LIFE AND MY CHILD."

Have a firm, direct, and calm consequence to each action. There's no need for yelling or threatening or hysterics. That only screws things up. I also found that hanging around a very firm, direct, strict and loving mother helped me out a LOT. I have one friend who has a younger child and is an elementary school teacher. She is both extremely strict and extremely loving. Hanging out with her and taking some of her cues on disciplining really helped me out a lot, even though I'm still trying to find a good balance every day.

g


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## boston (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lily67*
Boston - You are absolutely misunderstanding me.

Just so you know, I'm on your side. Best of luck to you.


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## mommyofshmoo (Oct 25, 2004)

Lily67,

I may be reading you wrong.

What I've heard you say is that your daughter is a "bad egg" and that you feel sad she is your child. You beleive it's her "fault" you were so tired for so long, that you lost your business, and possibly even that your birth was terrible.

It sounds like that would be very hard for you to deal with.

But I imagine it's even harder for your daughter.

Whatever sensory issues or behavioral issues she has- and she may very well have one of these problems- you must deal with your resentment towards her.

It sounds like your dd is very very unhappy and is having a hard time dealing with the world. As a three year old, she probably doesn't know how not to externalize that and take it out on everyone around her.

I just want to remind you that she's not a "bad person", she's a small person who does not know how to deal with her feelings.

I agree with the pp that told you to hold your head high and be firm but loving. You need to be strong enough to be her mom. You are not her victim.

Good luck!


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## mommyofshmoo (Oct 25, 2004)

Erasing second post- it was unnecessary.


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## Doodlebugsmom (Aug 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *candiland*

It is these kids.... the ones who are the most work and who require every ounch of strength and determination you never even thought you had... that have the potential to be the most brilliant, creative, and loving individuals.

g

Candiland, thank you for saying that. It makes me feel so much better. My dd is very much like you describe your dd. Many, many days I feel like finding the nearest cliff and jumping off! Not that I ever would, it's just a silly fantasy. I am currently seeing a therapist to deal with some of the things I'm going through. It's just constant with this kid. I see many, many glimpses of the way you describe your dd, and despite everything I feel now, I'm sure that my dd is destined for greatness. There is definitely something special about her.








to the OP. I feel like I've had moments when I've been standing in your shoes.


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lily67*
As far as DD's problems - well, I don't know. It would take a lot of time and effort to go through all the counseling and food allergy testing, etc., before I would know. But I know that if I found out something substantial it would be worth it.

We've dealt with many of the behaviors you described--including a generally negative mood with dd from morn til night--and have come a long way in the past 12 months. Things are much, much more pleasant around here now. IMO, something is wrong when the child is that miserable, kwim?

We did a bunch of stuff, including an OT evaluation and therapy for SID (which did help a lot). But if I were to do it all over again, I would *first* go to a good, holistic chiropractor if one is available. Dd goes to one now that specializes in cranial work (cranial osteopathy? I'm not exactly sure what it is called), and she has been a one-stop-shop for dd's health care! She was able to ID dd's food sensitivities in house, thru muscle testing (completely non-invasive), and she is getting to the root of her SID. She is even helping with dd's strabismus (lazy eye). So that might be something to explore, and you should know relatively quickly if it is helping.


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## ToniaStarr (Sep 27, 2005)

My middle child fits the mol for ODD and everyday can be a huge struggle with him. Some days it is all I can do to make it till the end and sit down and feel like ai wasted a day and failed as a mommy. It can be so hard. So, I totally understand.
It is hard to say "oh this will work" as every child is different. But it may really truly help to spend more time with her instead of avoiding it. I do notice my son Aidan is MUCH better behaved when he has me one on one. When he gets overwhelmed by too many people around he gets very frusturated. Plus, like someone else mentined here, negative attention is STILL attention. She may be really needing you to notice how she is feeling, ya know? It can be really hard to read into the reasons why our children act the way they do. Her behavior may be a sign of some internal stress. I actually havetwo high needs kids. Zane has lots of anxiety issues and Aidan gets angry so easy. I just want you to know you are not alone. Some days I feel my son is the worst and no kid could be so bad. Somedays, he screams bloody murder and throws tantrums every 15 minutes. He throws things at me, hits me, kicks me, bites me. It can be so defeating, so frusturating. WHY must he be so nasty when I do all I can to show him love.
It can be HARD to love someone who does not return that love. If you dated a guy who was nasty and hit you, you would leave him. If you had a boss who was like that, youd quit. But you are stuck with your child and I know how tough it can be.
Seriously, try taking some time evryday with just the two of you to do something real special she really likes.Maybe doing makeovers with painting nails or makeup? Or reading books together snuggled in her bed or out to a park? Just the two of you. Even 5 or 10 minutes of peace can open a door to gradual uphill winning this battle. Take it day by day.
Also, sit down and write down all the reasons you love her. Every little thing. Hang it somewhere you can read it when she is really wearing you down like by your mirror in your room. Add to it when she does something else. Anything. Ie: made a silly face to make me laugh, got herself dressed with no argueing today, has her Father's smile, remembering the first tiem she said mama, etc.... I do this cuz somedays I really forget WHY I wanted kids in the first place. LOL (this is usually by dinner when all 3 are either yelling or crying, and i am worn beyond belief)
Anyway, sorry to ramble. I can just totally relate.
Tonia


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## ToniaStarr (Sep 27, 2005)

woops, forgot to add the more obvious, is she getting enough sleep? I started Aidan on melatonin and it has made a drastic change in his behavior. DRASTIC. He fell asleep fine but was waking often throughout the night.
Also, try gradually cutting out foods with additives in them. Crap foods I call them. And medicines with dyes too. Stuff like kool aid, sugary pops, candy, froot loops, fruit snacks, tv dinners, etc... Try getting her on a diet mostly with stuff you make yourslef instead of prepackaged stuff. Zane benifited alot from this diet. We try to avoid most food with artificial colors and flavors. Worth a shot anyway. And if it doesnt help her behavior, heck, she is still eating healthy so what can it hurt?
Tonia


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## Treasuremapper (Jul 4, 2004)

http://whilechildrensleep.homestead.com/ You might want to take a look at this gentle technique for communicating love and helping to change the dynamic in your home.

Ok, this is kind of simplistic, but this has been helpful for many families. You can use this technique for deeper issues like OP is experiencing or for more simplistic issues like fear of being flushed down the potty. I worried that it was manipulative, but since I found out about it from Jan Hunt with the Natural Child Project I sort of took it on faith that it was probably OK. Hunt recommended it for some sibling rivalry issues we were experiencing.


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## Bia (Oct 21, 2004)

inezyv, what a wonderful site!! Thank you for sharing that.


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## lilsishomemade (Feb 12, 2005)

I just wanted to add for the OP. I think that regardless of whether or not you believe you have PPD, I'd suggest you see a counseller or therapist anyway. You need someone who will help you work through all these thoughts and feelings. I would not leave them for you to work on alone, the only path I can see is more resentment and bitterness, and I know that's probably not the kind of relationship you want to have with your daughter. Not only that, but perhaps they could help you find coping techniques that you hadn't thought of....

I don't really know what to suggest for your daughter, other than having her evaluated. My son just turned three, and he is a difficult child to deal with, also. I am having his speach evaluated, since he still isn't communicating, and plan on going further if speech therapy doesn't help.


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## ERSsmom (Dec 6, 2004)

Oh, hugs to you! My heart goes out to you. I agreee with everyone who suggests getting some help for your daughter AND yourself. It is hard to tell what is going on from the information provided (the internet is really an inadequate place to make assessments), but it does sound like it is a combination of factors. I hear some resentment from you, but I also hear how difficult your daughter can be. It is hard to tell if one causes the other or if they are both caused by a third factor. I suggest you talk to someone. Perhaps your daughters pediatrician or perhaps a mental health professional. If your insurance does not cover mental health, there are organizations that provide these services for free or on a sliding scale. Let me know if you more information. Perhaps talking to both would be best.

I don't know that your daughter has Oppositional Defiant Disorder. She is a bit young to be given that diagnosis. It is not unheard of for preschool age children to be given that diagnosis, but it is extremely rare. Transient oppositional behavior is common in the preschool years and often resolves on its own. The main reason that it doesn't sound like ODD is because you describe your daughter as difficult from day 1. But, as I said, it is hard to make assessments over the internet.


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## lily67 (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ToniaStarr*
woops, forgot to add the more obvious, is she getting enough sleep?
Also, try gradually cutting out foods with additives in them. Crap foods I call them. And medicines with dyes too. Stuff like kool aid, sugary pops, candy, froot loops, fruit snacks, tv dinners, etc...

She sleeps fine and doesn't eat any of that stuff.


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## matts_mamamama (Mar 19, 2004)

I'll just reiterate what others have said - get some help for YOU and the rest may follow. Children pick up on our feelings, our stress and tension. It's a horrible cycle that just goes on and on. She surely feels your resentment and continues to act accordingly - what she wants and needs is your love and attention. Whether you have PPD or not (I lean toward yes, knowing my own experiences), please see someone and soon and let us know.


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## Quinn'sMommy (Jan 2, 2005)

too you. I hope you fine the love, support and help you need to get through this.


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## LaLa (Nov 18, 2001)

Some thoughts I have are also to get your daughter evaluated by an occupational therapist. It could be she is acting out because her needs may be different then what is "norm" and she may not be receiving the right inputs on her day to day.

Also, food changes/diet changes turned my daughter around SO MUCH.
Since you are coming from a comfortable home, you may consider doing an ImmunoLab Blood test and finding out which foods she is reacting to so you can begin a proper elimination diet. It could be something you would never think of (trust me...been there!)

Also, I found that the food and sensory issues that Bean had effected her behavior SO EXTREMELY that she was even diagnosed with autism at age 4. She has no more behavior issues as we knew in teh past. She is a new child.

I strongly recommend seeing an OT and doing the ImmunoLab blood workup.
You can order it through a DAN doctor (chiropractor may be able to help you order the test).

And it is hard to remember when your buttons are being pushed, but a child acting out is one who needs our love and attention the most. There is an underlying reason for bad behavior. Finding out what it is ... that can be the challenge!

Seeking a good OT would be great for you, too, because you could get some guidance on how to handle difficult behavior.

Finally, you also need to take care of yourself. If you have an 8 month old, odds are you don't get enough sleep. I know, easier said then done, but when you feel at your wits end, give yourself a time out. Call someone you trust to help you, hire a college student to give you a break a few hours here and there.
There are options that will help all of you.

I wish your family the best.


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## lily67 (Nov 4, 2005)

Well, I've just had a revelation.

I was reading around on the boards and came across a woman with a baby with reflux. I followed the link to her site and read about how she had to put the tube in her baby's throat. She had to wrap up her baby tight in a blanket, pull a little hat down over her eyes, and then the screaming would start...

My heart broke.

That precious baby, with her eyes covered, not understanding what was going on. That Mom, how brave, how helpless at the same time, having no choice but to do what needed to be done to help her baby get some nutrition.

I thought to myself - what am I complaining about? What is so wrong with my daughter that I need to complain about her? Yes, she is a challenge, and yes, I'm depressed about some things. But that is nothing, NOTHING, compared to someone who has to deal with a sick child on a daily basis. My daughter is spirited, a wild child, and difficult sometimes, but she is healthy. She is not what I thought - she is not a horrible child. I do not want to lose her - I don't want her to leave me. My attitude is wrong. I am the one who needs to get myself in order.

Tonight we snuggled up in bed together and listened to stories and music on CD and she drifted off to sleep. It's been a hard day in some ways, but I know, I KNOW she can be so much more than just difficult. I know she is loving, kind. I've seen her hug children at the park, kiss her sister when she is crying, etc. I know there is a wonderful person in there and I just need to find her and help her come out more often.

Oh, the tears are streaming down my face now.

Thanks to all of you for your input on this. I don't know, maybe I'll still have DD evaluated. But honestly, I think this is about my attitude and how I need to change my view of things. I post here regularly, but I posted under a different name because I was just so ashamed to even suggest that I didn't want my daughter. I do love her madly. I fell in love with her soooo much that first week after she was born. I didn't know how much I could love someone. I still love her. I know I can find joy in her, joy in being with her.


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## LaLa (Nov 18, 2001)

I am glad to hear you are feeling better, but you should still consider seeking help for your dd if she does indeed have issues that lead to her behavior. It could make life much easier for her if you have the proper education on what she is needing/seeking.

And you may find benefit in having some positive aspirations around your home to remind you of your love and the resolution to grow yourself in a way that makes you feel happy. (if that makes sense). For the times when you are feeling very low.

love and best wishes
xo

edited to add....I know how it made me feel 2+ years ago when people suggested I get my dd evaluated. I was angry. I felt like "You don't even know us! " I was insulted and on the defensive. I don't know why. Maybe it just scared me to think something was wrong that I couldn't handle? I don't know. But I do know that asking for help can be a hard step, but it can be so rewarding. If you are interested in reading more about Bean's story, let me know and I'll direct you. There is a lot of wisdom in this group and you can pull from it!


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## jgreer (May 13, 2005)

I'm glad you're feeling better too, but you need to get an evaluation (for both of you).

This is classic. I have seen it before. A person is at their wit's end, feels like they might need to do something drastic, then they think about it for awhile, think they've gained a new perspective, and everything will be better from that point on. It's just your body saying, "Hey, I can't take this much constant stress, so I'm gonna take a little break."

That doesn't make the problem go away. It means there has been a shift in your feelings for the moment. Things will return to their previous level of stress.

My mother did this time and time again. As a result, my sister never got the help that she needed and their relationship is still a mess because of it.

Since my sister has gained new perspective into her condition (now that she's in her late 30's), she has realized that it was her condition that made her act out so much, and she blames my mom for not getting her help and her "horrible childhood".

DON'T LET THIS HAPPEN TO YOU AND YOUR DAUGHTER.

If it truly does have more to do with you than with her, getting an evaluation won't hurt anything and it will give you the necessary information to continue in a positive direction.

If you get the evaluation, you'll know what the next and most positive step will be for your family.


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## coleslaw (Nov 11, 2002)

I too am so glad you've had this moment, but I absolutely agree with jgreer. I've done this cycle many times over the past five years. so I know, because truly nothing has been solved. You can have moments like this and still be depressed. For me it took a tiny bit of couseling, some vitamins and St. John's wort, exercise and my dd getting older. You may need more, but maybe not. I truly wish you the best that life has to offer.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

I agree with the two pps. There's no shame in getting help. You might first want an eval before your dd is evaluated.

Bi-polar, manic depressive episodes etc can all be treated. It might take some doing, but it's better than not getting help. It will happen again, no matter how good you are feeling right now.

Please, call someone.


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## lily67 (Nov 4, 2005)

Oh, wow. I just opened up here and really let you all see my heart, and all I get is, "I'm glad you are feeling better, I'm glad you had this moment, but you still need help." Thanks, thanks a lot for just demeaning what I went through yesterday, like it wasn't very important, just a "moment".

How about, "Hey, that's great! I'm so happy for you! I'm glad you are working this out."

I'm so glad I didn't post under my regular name. Maybe I'll ask the mods to delete this thread. The whole thing has taken such a sour turn for me, just when I thought I was starting to work through this.


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## dido1 (Aug 12, 2004)

Hi Lily. I've been following this thread but am just now posting. I don't have any sage advice, but wanted to tell you that I think it's great that you had a moment of peace and serenity that clarified some things for you. It's also very brave to be willing to turn the light onto yourself and your relationship with your daughter and accept that your attitude may be the problem. Many, many parents are unwilling to do that!

I am sure the pp's didn't mean to demean your recent experience, but are just concerned for you. They have given you suggestions that you can tuck into your parenting toolbox should you need them later on. I hope that you don't have to seek outside intervention, but it is nice to know that there are other parents here who needed to take that step and can guide and support you if you need it.


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## ayme371 (Jan 5, 2005)

I am glad to hear that you are feeling better and on the road to making things better for both you and your daughter. But it just might help to have someone guide you along that road. I don't think anyone meant to demean what you went through yesterday. On the contrary, they still want to see you and your daughter get any help you may need.









sorry, x post with dido1


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## acrathbun (Apr 27, 2004)

Quote:

I walk on eggshells all day with her. I feel like a prisoner in my own home. I have to CONSTANTLY think about what I'm going to say to her, how I'm going to present something new, just waiting for her screaming and arguing and fighting, etc. It's just soooo tiring.
I just want to give you a big (((HUG))).

What you wrote (above) triggered something for me & I want to share something with you that I don't usually share (I will delete it in a day or two).

My oldest son is 10.5 yrs. He is beautiful, bright, happy and just plain wonderful. However, he was an incredibly difficult infant (I don't think we slept for more than 45min. at a time until he was well over a year) and an incredibly difficult toddler, and an even more difficult preschooler.

I thought it was my fault, that since he was my first that I had somehow screwed him up. I was depressed and worried and hoping that he would just get better.

There were times when I completely hated my child. When my second was born,(Spencer was 3) she was a peaceful, happy contented child.

Someone suggested that perhaps he was gifted. And he is. I took him to the University near my home & had a student psychologist test him. IQ isn't really set until kids are a bit older, but his was well above the 95th percentile.

That was comforting to me, and I can't even tell you why







I'm not sure why.

Fast forward a few years....I began homeschooling him in kindergarten. It was, hands-down, the biggest disaster ever. He HATED me teaching him. I tried unschooling, he was restless, agitated. Finally after many months (years?) I enrolled him in a charter school that my dh helped found. Apparently my son requires an exceedingly high level of structure.

Finally, after years of different problems, issues, etc. I took him to a psychiatrist. This was only a year ago. He was 9 yrs old.

My son has a chemical problem, and while it's not the crunchiest thing in the world, medication has changed his life for the better.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you are worried about your child, maternal instinct is a powerful thing. Please don't suffer for years like we did.

I hope you continue to have good days. Please pm or email me, if you would like to.


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## Sweetiemommy (Jul 19, 2005)

Lily,
I was happy when I read your second to last post. I think that it is possible to turn your thinking around without it just being a Moment. I think that it is possible to parent a high needs/spirited/demanding/whatever child successfully. According to my mom and MIL, my husband and I were both like this. My ds probably will be too! But I know that it was our mother's good attitudes that kept them (and us) sane. If my husband and I were kids today we would probably be diagnosed with all sorts of things. We both have high IQ's and are pretty demanding adults too!! If your own motherly instincts tell you that something is seriously wrong, then by all means, get yourself and your child counseling. If you truly feel that you have changed perspective --- I say go with it! A great attitude can go a long way! Hang in there!


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## Charles Baudelaire (Apr 14, 2003)

For God's sakes, Lily, they're trying to _help_ you. Consider for _one second_ what their motivations are for telling you what they told you. I've seen it too, and let me tell you what you don't want to hear:

THEY'RE RIGHT.

Have you considered _why_ you're so resistant to their ideas? Could it be that you know they're right and just don't want to believe it? How much is your resistance to this idea hurting you or helping you?

I wish the best for you and your child.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lily67*
Oh, wow. I just opened up here and really let you all see my heart, and all I get is, "I'm glad you are feeling better, I'm glad you had this moment, but you still need help." Thanks, thanks a lot for just demeaning what I went through yesterday, like it wasn't very important, just a "moment".

How about, "Hey, that's great! I'm so happy for you! I'm glad you are working this out."

I'm so glad I didn't post under my regular name. Maybe I'll ask the mods to delete this thread. The whole thing has taken such a sour turn for me, just when I thought I was starting to work through this.


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## beansavi (Jun 26, 2005)

I think what you are feeling is normal when dealing with a high needs child/demanding personality. I have felt the same during certain moments. I would call my Mom and say she needed to take him for the weekend. Sometimes it felt like I needed more like two weeks in another town!

Every human has her limits.

She is definitely testing you, IMO. My second has had that personality since day one. We thought she was colicky, but at 5 y.o., she _still_ gripes a lot as her initial reaction, but has learned to let her caring side show, more.

These little spirits come into the world with their own personalities. Of course what we do tempers some of this, guides them, teaches them, nurtures them, but I have learned from _all_ of my kids that they definitley are their own personalities beyond what we try and instill.

Hang in there, and keep reaching out to us when you need to.

Peace,


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

I've experienced similar feelings prior to discovering my oldest son's dairy allergy. There was a time that I literally did not want to wake up in the mornings because it meant it all would start over again







I, too, had revelations similar---that it wasn't all that bad---he was alive and healthy...that would sustain me until the next time he would hit me in the face and laugh or break down a door. Seriously, I thought he was doing it on purpose. It turns out he needed me, the adult, to help him. Help him feel better, and to help myself learn ways to better deal with him and his very deep and real needs. Love him for who he was---not who I wanted him to be....I had to mourn the loss of the child he wasn't. That's really hard for me to type. In the end, I had to let go of a lot of expectations.....it's really been an on-going struggle.


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

I just wanted to affirm your feelings but still encourage you to get help for yourself and your dd. Believe me, when you have people who are willing to listen and offer advice from an experienced background, it makes you feel like you are not all alone anymore. You can go and talk to the professionals about it and get real solutions.

There was a dark time in my life when I loved my dd1 but did not like her very much. Looking back on it, I realize there were a lot of things affecting my state of mind:

1) I had PPD. It started during bedrest and got worse the longer I was postparum.
2) I had the stress of a sick baby.
3) Dd1 was three, which is a difficult age anyway.
4) Dd1 was, and always has been, high needs, demanding, and a poor sleeper.
5) Therefore I was not getting any sleep, and sleep deprivation is an ugly thing.
6) I had no outside family support.
7) My dh was disconnected emotionally because he was having trouble coping with three people in his family who had problems.

What got me through was
1) seeing a counselor briefly.
2) seeing my midwife and getting some birth control to help my hormones stabilize
3) taking dd1 to get evaluated by a child psychologist, who confirmed some oddities and referred me to an Occupational Therapist
4) three OTs later I was convinced that dd1 did have sensory issues. She didn't qualify for therapy but I got her "off the record" help from dd2's therapists.
5) I got help for dd2's problems and a whole team of specialists was making me feel not so alone
6) my dh and I made a new committment to make time for each other and try to reconnect
7) we discovered that dd1 had allergies and did much, much better once we got meds for her during pollen season.

So when I encouraged you to get help for yourself and dd, I was speaking from my heart and from experience. I hope you don't take things personally that people said. People have the best of intentions with their replies to you. ((HUGS))

ETA: My dd1 is now almost 5 and is a wonderful child. She has totally changed-- and so have I. I'm so grateful for seeking help to get us through that time.


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## coleslaw (Nov 11, 2002)

Lily, I'm sorry you didn't hear what you wanted to hear. I swear to you I know what you are feeling and I was only try to help. I never intended to hurt you I've had my revelations many times after many very low points where I thought I had just found the answer to all answers and everything was going to be fine by just thinking it was. Then she would act up just once or maybe it would take twice in one day and I would go back down. It sounds like all it took was a few people's comments that put you back there, which tells me that in your case you need more than a positive attitude and there is nothing wrong with that.

You also said that you shouldn't feel what you feel since other mothers have so much worse than you. No one has it worse than me. My second daughter died. Of all people, I should revel in every moment in my living child's life because I know how lucky I am to have her. Well, guess what? I was still treating her the same, frustrated the same... until I went to get help. My personality and hers didn't mesh. She has food allergies and is just very intense. And I had depression, plain and simple, from her birth, from Grace's death, from lots of other things, but it doesn't matter why. It just matters that it was there and it needed to be treated. Like I said, for me it was taking some natural remedies, exercise and a few counseling sessions to help em express my feelings better. For you it may be more, maybe less, maybe nothing at all. Maybe it is all issues your dd needs help with, but I would guess that it's a little of both. Please explore and find out.

I am on your side, I promise you.


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## teachma (Dec 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *candiland*
My dd was EXACTLY like this. Exactly.

She will be six years old next month. She has developed into the kindest, sweestest, most brilliant child I have ever encountered. She started Kindergarten this year and her teachers are blown away by her. It is truly a miracle.

I used to want her to "have" a diagnosis. She was soooo far from happy, content, or normal. As I used to joke, she was born screaming and didn't stop for the first few years of life. lol Seriously, she was super, intensely shy and emotional as an infant... very rarely smiled or laughed, just sat back and analyzed everything going on around her. She also screamed and cried hysterically 'til four a.m. every night for the first few months of life.

Ditto, but mine is a ds, and he won't be 6 until August. The only thing he is diagnosed with (and treated for, with play therapy) is anxiety. And that, along with starrting kindergarten, has made ALL the difference. But we had about 2 solid years of what felt like h***, and I didn't like ds at all during that time. I now feel he is the most amazing human being, and I crave spending time with him! It is a night-and-day shift.


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## shanagirl (Oct 24, 2005)

Lily you DID make a breakthrough, but there isn't a single insight that changes everything. Even when your insight is dead right, you still have the hard work of making good on it as the challenges continue to present themselves from day to day. There will still be difficult days but each new insight gets you and your daughter further along. The worst thing is to try to do it alone though.

My sister was a lot like your daughter. It took a huge amount out of my mother. The hardest thing for her was to admit that at times she hated her own child--the times that my sister was at her worst. And then she would feel awful about those feelings because my sister had days where she was quiet and loving. It's very very complicated, what a high needs child brings out in us, and what they need from us and what they do to us. They change you forever. I was surprised to realize in my teens that my mother had been quite accomplished at her work (technical mechanical drawing) before having children. I think the combination of being a very intellectual, artistic person with a very strong personality, faced with a child whose intense demands were illogical and whose needs she could not control or appease, stunned and shocked her. She had been used to excelling all her life, had skipped two grades and still was top of her class. So she was going to be a great mother with wonderful children. Then my sister changed her world. I realize now my mother was often depressed over a number of years. But the line of understanding she never crossed came from thinking that she was fine and my sister was the troubled one, but the fact is, my sister changed my mother and she became troubled too. Not in a 'whacked out' way. My mother continued to be an amazing parent to the rest of us, but her emotions became a roller coaster and she could become enraged or despair over very small things because of all the sorrow she was holding inside. Troubled. Not whacked out. But my mother could have very much benefitted from spending time with someone who had insight into these issues. We (her younger children) didn't, and she had too much pride to talk to her friends or sisters about it. That just left her more isolated with NO ONE (including her) UNDERSTANDING what she was going through, and so much harder on her than it needed to be. My sister was never going to 'go away.' She was always going to be her daughter, and she was never going to be the daughter my mother wanted her to be.

My sister is fine now, and it's hard to believe she is the same person whose rage and needs took over so much of our family. Her medication changed her life. I just wish my mother had sought therapy with someone who could have told her what a great job she was doing all those years and helped her in her darkest moments, that she didn't have to ride so many storms and hold up so much on her own.

Take care of yourself, find someone who can help you gain insight into your needs and your daughters. There is much to look forward to ahead.


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## jgreer (May 13, 2005)

We're just trying to help you understand that you can save a lifetime of depression and difficulty if you get evaluations and talk to someone now rather than several years down the road.

If you want the best for your children and family, it makes sense to give it a try.

It's REALLY good that you've experienced a period of calm. Just know that no matter how hard you try, it won't likely last.

You may get evaluations and the doctors could say, "You know what? There's not really anything wrong. You guys just need to learn how to understand each other better. Here's the name of a counselor, so you can learn to communicate with each other in a healthier way."

Or there might be something else going on.

But, either way, things will improve if you take the step of talking to a professional. You'll know the best course of action.

With that, I'm going to stop posting to this thread because, although several people have agreed with me, it doesn't sound like you are ready to hear advice quite yet.

The people that have posted here, have been there, done that. They're just trying to save you the trauma of continuing in this cycle.

I wish you luck in the future.


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## annarosa (Aug 30, 2004)

oh my gosh - what to suggest - you sound in a really terrible situation with her
the reality is, you know, that she is not going to go away and this behaviour is very likely to continue unless YOU her mother find a way to get to grips with it..........
sounds like power struggles, power struggles and power struggles ....exhausting for you and very sad for both of you

how about some playful parenting ideas - have you read Playful Parenting by Lawrence Cohen ? has some ideas about how to approach things by beingplayful, funny, playing to fool - anything to avoid it being a win/lose situation

how about finding something FUN to do with her maybe just once a day in the mornings - singing loudly together, playing ball together, wrestling on the floor ????

sorry - that's all I can think of right now, goodluck and hang on in there, you can do it


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

You sound bi-polar: down-down one day, and then ok or even up-up the next day. You still need help, IMO. Having your up days, and then your down days again, will make your dd even MORE confused. She'll never know what to expect from you.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

.


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## ramlita (Mar 26, 2002)

Thinking of you.


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## lily67 (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A*
You sound bi-polar: down-down one day, and then ok or even up-up the next day. You still need help, IMO. Having your up days, and then your down days again, will make your dd even MORE confused. She'll never know what to expect from you.

Oh, please.







I'm not bi-polar. You don't see me in everyday life. You are just seeing a small slice of me through this thread. I probably have some PPD though.


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## teachermom (Nov 21, 2001)

I do not want to put you on the defensive. I do not know your dd or you. After reading your post, I do feel that sharing my experience may be of benefit to you, though.
my ds was born in stressful times. I was single. his bio dad died while I was preg. most of my friends drifted away after I had him because they were at a differ ant point in life. I had 42 hrs of labor and ended up with 4th degree tears from his birth. overall...it was a hard time.
I knew from the beginning that he was differ ant (though I thought that most of it must be my fault). ds never slept more than 2-3 hours at a time....often only a few hours a night. he was intense in everything he did. he talked fluently by one. he walked at 7 months. he was intensely happy or intensely sad, or intensely angry. he tantrum-ed for hours at a time. he broke every door knob and lock in my home by the time he was six. he was very smart. he was very rude. I always said that his biggest talent was the ability to find whatever will make a sane grownup crazy quickly. he used the talent often. when he was two, I called my mother in tears because I had decided that the only thing I could do for him was to give him up for adoption. he deserved a better mom. I just knew that I had done something wrong or else he wouldn't be so hard! luckily, my mom convinced me that I needed to go see a councilor. turns out I had ppd...my kid was almost three! I functioned pretty well. I was basically happy. it wasn't until my ppd was treated that I realized how rarely I just sat and relaxed with happy thoughts.
another thing that came out of it was that I realized my ds had some issues I needed help with. first he was dx as adhd. then odd was added. by five we figured out that he had huge sensory issues. at ten we had some success with homeopathics. at eleven, we realized that he was allergic to cows milk (dairy) and took him off it. it helped a lot. he's thirteen now. In the last year we had realized that he is bipolar (often first dx as adhd and odd). I still resist traditional meds but have had some success with alternatives. he has gotten easier to deal with each year. as he gets older he learns to deal more and more with his own issues.
I had one of those awareness moments when ds was about seven. It helped so much in my attitude with him. I was able to be open to learning new parenting skills...he always has made me stretch those skills.
I have three other children. they are all much more on target with other children in their behavior. they are so much easier.
I still have moments when I am think of just how much easier my life would be if I didn't have ds #1. At times like those it helps to have some memory of one of his sweet moments to remember.


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## turkeygw (May 29, 2005)

It sounds like you need a break, and maybe your family isn't helping out enough, as THEY SHOULD. I agree though, sometimes my daughters get on my last freakin nerves. God I would just love to have the entire house to myself(including DP) for a weekend. I just try to remember that really soon my uncle will be here to rescue me, and then I'll have more breaks. Is there anyone who could give you a break? You shouldn't have to always ask for a break, but why not try? Good luck! I feel your pain


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