# What the @#$% Do We Do Now?



## WeasleyMum (Feb 27, 2007)

DH and I just lost our 3rd pregnancy last night-- that makes three consecutive losses and no term pregnancies, so I think we're well out of the "coincidence" range now. I just don't know what to do. It would be madness to just keep DTD, getting pregnant, and miscarrying. Specialists? I don't even know what they do, even. Is this considered infertility?


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## freestyler (Jan 28, 2005)

That is so hard, many hugs to you.

Ummm, this is just a thought, but this is one of the simplest of all things: Have you had your progesterone levels checked? If you ever had endometriosis (even if you didn't) your progesterone levels can be too low to suppoprt a pregnancy. Mine are. I have to take progesterone to stay pregnant. (But this last time, we had a m/c anyway, non-progesterone related.







) But it is certainly the first thing I would check, since it is a simple bloodtest. You get it checked one week after ovulation. it should be in the 15-20 range. If it's 5 or 6 like mine is, you know at least something about your solution. I would go to a fertility person after three consecutive losses.

It is terrible you have had to go through this. I don't think being 38 would cause this----maybe 48, but not 38. I think there's something else going on. Good luck and hugs to you. The emotional roller coaster must be very hard to take.


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## ScootchsMom (Feb 12, 2007)

I'm so sorry for your losses.

I've only had the one miscarriage, but it is my understanding that some docs will consider 2 losses a reason for further testing, but definitely 3. Depending on your insurance, you may need to see your regular OBGYN first for a referal to an RE (Reproductive Endocrinologist sp?). Or you may be able to just skip the regular OBGYN and head to the RE straight away. I'm sure other mommas here will have more info on what kind of testing they do.







After 3 losses I would definitely be headed for the RE ASAP. It may be something simple, not that any of this is simple, such as a progesterone problem. Again,









Liz


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## possum (Nov 23, 2004)

I would also suggest that you seek some support. I see you are in C'ville. We were there for several years. I had 2 miscarriages and felt I might never have a baby in my arms. I had some bloodwork after my second mc, and all I got out of it was a huge bill ($1500) and a "just try again." Grrr. A friend recommended her acupuncturist who has helped many, many Charlottesville families grow. Matthieu Schmitter and his wife have a practice over near AHS - 3 Qi Oriental Medicine and Herbs. He is wonderful; with his care, I was able to carry my son to term. I had a very healthy pregnancy and delivered him at home with the help of C'ville's best midwives - Brynne and Deren.
Wishing you comfort and peace,
Melinda


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## gretasmommy (Aug 11, 2002)

Oh, no!!!! I am so, so sorry!

After our second loss I just knew something was wrong, despite our healthy daughter, something wasn't right. We went to see a reproductive endocrinologist, and she found an undiagnosed clotting disorder. It's a miracle we have G at all, and that her pregnancy and birth were so uneventful. Now, with treatment during the pregnancy, this baby lives and should join us next week.

I would talk with your OB/MW and get a referral to one. I did this right after our 2nd loss, even though at the time I wasn't prepared to entertain even the thought of another pregnancy . . . but later I was glad I had made the appt then as it took several months to get in to see her. And here we are, nearly there1

Take care of youself.


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## hannybanany (Jun 3, 2006)

I am so sorry that you are going through this again









Finding an RE is a good idea, as the others have mentioned. I wish you the best, and pray that you get some answers.


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## WeasleyMum (Feb 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *freestyler* 
That is so hard, many hugs to you.

Ummm, this is just a thought, but this is one of the simplest of all things: Have you had your progesterone levels checked? If you ever had endometriosis (even if you didn't) your progesterone levels can be too low to suppoprt a pregnancy. Mine are. I have to take progesterone to stay pregnant. (But this last time, we had a m/c anyway, non-progesterone related.








) But it is certainly the first thing I would check, since it is a simple bloodtest. You get it checked one week after ovulation. it should be in the 15-20 range. If it's 5 or 6 like mine is, you know at least something about your solution. I would go to a fertility person after three consecutive losses.

It is terrible you have had to go through this. I don't think being 38 would cause this----maybe 48, but not 38. I think there's something else going on. Good luck and hugs to you. The emotional roller coaster must be very hard to take.

I was actually on a progesterone supplement already-- 50mg twice a day, vaginal suppository. I tested rather low and falling during my second pregnancy (14 down to 12, in 48 hours) so I was prescribed that then. I had a lot left, so I just started using what was left from that prescription as soon as I got the BFP this time.








: I'm not 38, though-- I just turned 27 last month, part of the reason why this is so hard to believe...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *possum* 
I would also suggest that you seek some support. I see you are in C'ville. We were there for several years. I had 2 miscarriages and felt I might never have a baby in my arms. I had some bloodwork after my second mc, and all I got out of it was a huge bill ($1500) and a "just try again." Grrr. A friend recommended her acupuncturist who has helped many, many Charlottesville families grow. Matthieu Schmitter and his wife have a practice over near AHS - 3 Qi Oriental Medicine and Herbs. He is wonderful; with his care, I was able to carry my son to term. I had a very healthy pregnancy and delivered him at home with the help of C'ville's best midwives - Brynne and Deren.
Wishing you comfort and peace,
Melinda

Oooh, I was actually planning on using Brynne and Deren for this birth if everything worked out OK. I spoke to Deren this morning on the phone (had to cancel my appt for next month) and she said that she highly reccommends the OB practice I'm with, especially for fertility issues... she had previously suggested that I stay with them for at least a little while and let them monitor me through the 1st trimester, since I'd had problems in the past. It just happened to be the same practice that they often work with (Drs T and Wills) I might try that acupuncture practice, though-- and look into someone that specifically deals with this kind of thing.


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## peacelovingmama (Apr 28, 2006)

I hope you get some answers soon. My heart goes out to you. I hope you have a baby in your arms soon.


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## heatherh (Jun 25, 2005)

In addition to other recommendations, I'd suggest you read Coming to Term. There *is* hope, even after 2 or 3 m/c.

The Hope, Healing and Trying Again Thread is a great place for support, too. A lot of the women there have had multiple m/c and are knowledgeable about how to proceed, REs, tests.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

I'm likely going through the same thing. my first scan at 6 weeks (went after a little bleeding( didn't show anything but it was erly however I've been bleeding more since and after two previous miscarriages I know the "feel" I was promised that if I had a third loss they would start looking into why.







I too don't believe 3 in a row is just fate eaither..


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## labortrials (Aug 7, 2007)

Wow, I was just thinking of posting the same question, what the !!!! do we do now? Hell if I know!!!

To answer one of your questions, repeat miscarriage does fall under infertility. I don't know how it is after 3 consecutive losses that I ever got pregnant and carried to term with my DD. We have NO trouble whatsoever with conception but my body has failed to maintain 3 pregnancies. Coincidence? Not likely. My OB did standard blood testing after the last loss - it all came back normal. So what the !!!! indeed?!?!?!?!!!!!

So a fertility expert would be an OB? How is that different from a RE? And why would you go to one over the other??

I must admit that I am pissed. My OB doesn't do progesterone testing. If I find that's the cause of these miscarriages, I'll be glad to know there was a reason, and I will be SO MAD that this OB turned down my request for early HCG and progesterone testing.

~ Kimberly


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## apmama2myboo (Mar 30, 2005)

i'm so very sorry you're going through it again. so sorry.


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## WeasleyMum (Feb 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *labortrials* 
Wow, I was just thinking of posting the same question, what the !!!! do we do now? Hell if I know!!!

To answer one of your questions, repeat miscarriage does fall under infertility. I don't know how it is after 3 consecutive losses that I ever got pregnant and carried to term with my DD. We have NO trouble whatsoever with conception but my body has failed to maintain 3 pregnancies. Coincidence? Not likely. My OB did standard blood testing after the last loss - it all came back normal. So what the !!!! indeed?!?!?!?!!!!!

So a fertility expert would be an OB? How is that different from a RE? And why would you go to one over the other??

I must admit that I am pissed. My OB doesn't do progesterone testing. If I find that's the cause of these miscarriages, I'll be glad to know there was a reason, and I will be SO MAD that this OB turned down my request for early HCG and progesterone testing.

~ Kimberly

MDC ate my post. AGAIN.

What I've learned today so far: An RE is a reproductive endocrinologist, someone who specializes in infertility, especially as it relates to hormonal issues. An OB, of course, is an obstetrician, who may or may not be skilled in dealing with fertility issues. If she is, though, she can run a lot of tests and check out potential problem areas without necessarily having to refer you to another specialist.

My OB practice is pretty test-happy/technology-happy, which could probably be annoying during a normal, healthy pregnancy but is a godsend if you're having problems. For example, they tested my progesterone after just one miscarriage, on the grounds that it doesn't hurt to check and sometimes a small thing can create big problems. They're supposed to be good with infertility-- this I heard from a midwife that I was hoping to work with. (Yes, I was two-timing the OBs. I want a homebirth, OK?) I can't see why she'd be less than truthful about something like that, so I guess that's their reputation in the area.

I think I'm going to stick with my OBs for now and see what they can figure out for us. If I don't feel we're making any progress, I can go to an RE from there. Probably if I were 10 years older or didn't like my OB, I'd just make that switch now. I can't believe yours didn't check your progesterone! It's a simple blood test, and it could change everything.


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## filiadeluna (Oct 2, 2007)

Oh, WeasleyMum.







I was so excited for you in the TTC forum & I'm so sorry to read this (was browsing "new posts"). Obviously I haven't been through what you have so I don't have any advice to offer. All I can do is wish the best for you in the future, whatever course of action(s) you may need to take to have a long, healthy pregnancy and baby.


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## veganmama719 (Sep 15, 2007)

*Mara*, I'm so sorry. I agree that 3 in a row warrants investigation. It could indeed be the progesterone issue. If so, that is something that is fairly easy to fix. Maybe you need more than what youwere taking on your own.
Other issues could be a clotting disorder (often heparin or baby aspirin is prescribes).
Chinese medicine couldn't hurt either. Sometimes that addresses the underlying issue why you have a progesterone deficinecy and balances things out, KWIM?
I am a big believer. I tried for 5 cycles to get PG on my own (more than I had to try for my other 2 kids but I was younger then) then started taking Chinese herbs and doing acupuncture. I was PG within 3 months. Now I did miscarry, as you know, a blighted ovum, last week. But I do think the chinese medicine is helping.

((((((Hugs))))))))))))) and good luck


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## ChristyM26 (Feb 26, 2006)

Kimberly, in your case it sounds like you should see an RE. An RE is much more likely to run more careful tests and has different ideas about what tests should be run based on what previous bloodwork shows. Since your OB already tried some bloodwork that looks normal and doesn't want to run other tests, I would do an RE.









WeasleyMum,







. I'm thinking your OB might be able to help, especially if they're good about testing. You do want to be careful though as an RE can sometimes be much more knowledgeable about what numbers really mean as opposed to what they should mean (if that makes sense).


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## Ilaria (Jan 14, 2002)

After 2 MCs (I was 27 and 28), I was referred to an RE. Lots of tests and drugs later, I had a son and then a daughter. (then 2 more MCs, then this baby)
Don't be discouraged. I thought I could never have a baby!!!


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## Ilaria (Jan 14, 2002)

After 2 MCs (I was 27 and 28), I was referred to an RE. Lots of tests and drugs later, I had a son and then a daughter. (then 2 more MCs, then this baby)
Don't be discouraged. I thought I could never have a baby!!!


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## labortrials (Aug 7, 2007)

I talked to my (homebirth) MW last night. She agrees that I need to see a specialist and probably "double up" services if/when we try for another baby. Unfortunately it doesn't look like we have a RE in town. I guess I'll try a straight-up endocrinologist or another OB group who is supportive of progesterone testing and supplementation. I also consulted with a ND who seems pretty confident in his ability to diagnose & help endocrine system imbalances. The OB who managed my last miscarriage (and who denied me the prog/hcg testing with this pregnancy) had wanted to do an *endometrial biopsy* on me - I think you do that around CD23-26. What do y'all think about that?

Veganmama - I'm sorry for your recent loss too.








Mara - your "at least" post was exactly what I needed this morning. Bless you!

Hugs all around, actually . . .







Kimberly


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## MKury (May 14, 2007)

My mw was talking to a girl who had lost her previous 4 pgs and was currently expecting again. There is a doctor in our area who was first a chemist- she says the body is made up of a bunch of chemicals in specific amounts and that if the chemicals are imbalanced, lots of negative things may happen- that being said, she does a lot of blood work and according to my mw, has been instrumental in helping many women carry their babies full term. I don't know where you live, but perhaps a doctor like this can help.

Many







and







:


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## ChesapeakeBorn (Jun 23, 2007)

Oh, no Mara. I was so so saddened to read your post. So cruel and unfair that you have to experience this great sorrow again. There is not much I can do to ease your pain, but please know that I am sending you many







s.

Also, I underwent testing after my second loss and spent several months researching what evaluate. I am going to be coming to C-ville this weekend to visit with DH's family and go to Cirque du Soleil. If you want to get together for tea downtown, I can go over a list of tests and show you some of the literature that I found to be helpful. Just PM me if you're up for it.


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## ChesapeakeBorn (Jun 23, 2007)

Oh, my is MDC being difficult. Double post. So sorry.


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## WeasleyMum (Feb 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChesapeakeBorn* 
Oh, no Mara. I was so so saddened to read your post. So cruel and unfair that you have to experience this great sorrow again. There is not much I can do to ease your pain, but please know that I am sending you many







s.

Also, I underwent testing after my second loss and spent several months researching what evaluate. I am going to be coming to C-ville this weekend to visit with DH's family and go to Cirque du Soleil. If you want to get together for tea downtown, I can go over a list of tests and show you some of the literature that I found to be helpful. Just PM me if you're up for it.

Thank you! Meeting up would be so nice, but I'm actually flying home to Dallas this weekend for a little family support-- I'll be there all week. What timing, right? I had some tests done after the second loss: thrombosis panel for blood-clotting issues and one for thyroid functioning, because hypothyroidism runs in my family. They both came up normal. I guess there's tons of other stuff they'll have to look at, right?


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## Azuluna (Jun 26, 2006)

Oh Mara, I am so sorry







I know there isn't much to say, but I want you to know I'm thinking about you.


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## ChesapeakeBorn (Jun 23, 2007)

Have a safe trip, Mara! I'm glad you will be getting support from your family. Just so you know, there are many other things they can look at and test for. When you feel ready to begin that process, PM me and I can give you a bunch of information.


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## Staciemao (Feb 15, 2008)

Whatever you do, don't smack the person who suggests that you

"look into adoption, 'cause I know 27 different people who started adoption procedures and wound up pregnant."

It'll be tempting, I know, but don't. Because you could end up in trouble.









Just a little gallows humor from someone who's been there. You're in my prayers, WeasleyMum.


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## FiberLover (Feb 6, 2007)

There IS hope.

Even without a known explanation.

I had three miscarriages in the past year (no kids yet). After the third loss, I went to a specialist and was going to start testing.

Unexpectedly, I was pregnant again. The Dr. had me start taking a baby aspirin a day, and tested my progesterone (which was low, but ok).

With no other interventions, I'm now almost 18 weeks pregnant, something I never thought I'd be.

Of course, I still have 22 weeks to go, but...

((((((((((hugs))))))))))))

I'm so sorry for your losses, and yes, I would start testing, and keep hoping!


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## veganmama719 (Sep 15, 2007)

*Kimberly*, I think the ND is a great idea. My acupunturist is actually a naturopathic doctor. She has also studied traditional Chinese medicine. She uses the 3 in combination.

*Mara*, more ((((((((hugs))))))))).

For anyone struggling to get PG, or with recurrent m/c, I highly recommend Randline Lewis' book The Infertility Cure.


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## WeasleyMum (Feb 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FiberLover* 
There IS hope.

Even without a known explanation.

I had three miscarriages in the past year (no kids yet). After the third loss, I went to a specialist and was going to start testing.

Unexpectedly, I was pregnant again. The Dr. had me start taking a baby aspirin a day, and tested my progesterone (which was low, but ok).

With no other interventions, I'm now almost 18 weeks pregnant, something I never thought I'd be.

Of course, I still have 22 weeks to go, but...

((((((((((hugs))))))))))))

I'm so sorry for your losses, and yes, I would start testing, and keep hoping!

Michelle, that is FABULOUS!!







How did I not notice _that_ while trolling the boards?! (Note to self, baby aspirin... baby aspirin... ) 18 weeks, that's fantastic! I will most definitely be stalking your DDC from now on.


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## gretasmommy (Aug 11, 2002)

Our RE had a protocol for women who have suffered recurrent loss . . .and in our initial interview she also told us that in 60% of her patients there is no identifiable reason for the losses . . . but that for whatever reason, taking baby aspirin daily and supplementing with progesterone through week 16 (no testing, everyone gets supplemented) has helped many carry to term. She also had a "supportive mom's program" where we went for weekly u/s's through the 12th week, or 1 week after her latest loss, there's a counselor and an accupuncturist to see weekly as well . . . . . and you can do any part of this you choose. It was nice to have all of these options available.

There definitely is hope!!!!


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## FiberLover (Feb 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WeasleyMum* 
Michelle, that is FABULOUS!!







How did I not notice _that_ while trolling the boards?! (Note to self, baby aspirin... baby aspirin... ) 18 weeks, that's fantastic! I will most definitely be stalking your DDC from now on.











Yep, baby aspirin! And, probably the progesterone too, though I'm ok without it, it could definitely help (oh, and my specialist doc said take it right after ovulation, not after the BFP).

The specialist doc I went to before I "graduated" back to the midwives this time also was VERY nice, honest, and supportive of me coming in for betas right away, and I had 3 ultrasounds early on (I probably would have had one more but we actually went on a vacation), which all helped me feel reassured.

(((hugs Mara))) and for your hubby too.

This really is a rough, odd spot. And yes, after 3 losses, it is considered a type of infertility. Infertility through recurrent pregnancy loss.

It has helped me greatly to read on the internet about other bloggers, people who have suffered the same types of losses (even 6 miscarriages, or 5) but then gone on to have healthy babies.

Even now, at 18 weeks, my husband and I are still saying "if" while our friends at 16 weeks are planning baby showers. The whole idea of what it takes from you in terms of "normal pregnancies" is something you guys will need to come to terms with.

I wish you peace, and a healthy little one soon.


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## WeasleyMum (Feb 27, 2007)

Hearing about the aspirin makes me sad; it makes me wonder _what if, what if, what if._.. If I had been taking aspirin, would it have made a difference? I think, intuitively, it wouldn't have for this one. 5 1/2 weeks is so early for a loss, that blood-clotting issues couldn't have even had time to come into effect, don't you think? I mean there isn't even bloodflow between the mother and placenta at 5 weeks, right? But I wonder about the last one that I lost at 12 weeks.

It's odd to me that I can't see a clear pattern here--besides the fact that one way or another, I lost them all.

The first one was, I'm very sure, a blighted ovum. They didn't tell me that but I saw the ultrasound. 10 weeks.

The second looked perfectly good at the 8-week scan: it had a good heartbeat and everything (in the 180s); I was sick as a dog for weeks and felt totally pregnant.

This one could have been anything; I never felt even a little pregnant and it was over before 6 weeks. Another blighted ovum? I've read that they don't tend to happen repeatedly but that could be wrong.

Where is the pattern, the common thread? Different scan results, different end dates. I know it's the doctors' "job" to figure this stuff out, but who isn't curious about their own body/ pregnancies?


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## FiberLover (Feb 6, 2007)

My losses were 10 weeks, 6-7 weeks, and 5-6 weeks.

The specialist Dr. said that with that pattern he was expecting to see some sort of auto-immune issue come up in testing (especially since they run in my family), since the losses were progressively sooner each time.

I'm not sure if this would be an issue for you, or if it really is a true indication of an auto-immune issue?


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## WeasleyMum (Feb 27, 2007)

I honestly don't know. Mine go 10w, 12w, 5.5w. I don't know if the first miscarriage should be counted the same as the others, because it was a blighted ovum; some sources I've read indicate that those are once-off events and not repetitive but others sources suggest that a women can have many blighted ovums. (They need to read each others books, seriously.)

My OBs seem enthusiastic about genetic counseling but it would seem that autoimmune disorder would make more sense. How do they check for that-- bloodwork?


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