# Night Weaning - I'm tired, confused and scared



## Binta (Sep 29, 2006)

I am falling further and further into uncertainty. Three weeks ago I began to night wean (Dr. Jay Gordon's method) my soon to be 19 month old. Side note: I decided to try to night wean after 18 months of struggling with a very avid night nurser. My son always needed to be on me, and I can not sleep while he nurses. Besides being sleep deprived I struggle with depression. I had been able to handle it okay, but I got rather sick mid December and it really pushed me over the edge. I truly feel that night weaning would benefit me and my son in the long run, especially since I started resenting the little guy and I hated that feeling more than anything. However, DS has not reacted well to this. He is finally not screaming and throwing fits all night (we co-sleep and I am always with him), but I am still worried about him. I only restrict the nursing for 7 hours. After that he can nurse as long as he wants (which is constantly). I have increased the amount of solids and offer him food and water at night (he only accepted food once). Here is my concern: he has lost 3 pounds (in 3 weeks). He has dark circles under his eyes and his skin's pallor is apparent. I had thought that this is just because of the weaning (we have some nights with hours of waking), but now I am second guessing this. I am still recovering from my illness and perhaps this has an effect too. He might even have a little cold and of course has been teething for months, but could this be the result of the night weaning?

He is eating solids okay. We have even been able to increase his intake. He is very picky, but that has always been the case. He does throw tantrums very often. Refuses to be ECed and rarely allows us to give him a bath (both things he seemed to either enjoy before, or have no issue with). These I thought were side affects of having something very special to him being restricted. Now I am wondering. Could there be something else that I should be looking into?

Have any of you been in this situation? I really don't want to go back to how we were, but I am worried about the little guy. Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated!!!


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## Momtwice (Nov 21, 2001)

I'm just going to address the dark circles. They can be from lack of sleep, but they also can be a food allergy symptom. So if for instance, you are replacing nursing with cow's milk, it could indicate a reaction.










Not sure if this applies to your situation.


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## Binta (Sep 29, 2006)

Yeah, I have been concerned about allergies. We have already found that he has an intolerance to dairy and gluten and we have been off of those for months, but I suspect there is something else that I need to address. (He also gets crust behind his ears from time to time - I have read that this could also be a symptom of a food intolerance.) I think I will start a TED to make sure an allergy or an intolerance isn't part of the problem.

Thanks for your post!


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Honestly in that situation I would try adding night nursing back and see if things improved.

-Angela


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## delphiniumpansy (Mar 1, 2007)

Have you taken him to the doctor? Dark circles can be an indication of anemia. I would have bloodwork done to see if he is anemic.

3 weeks is not a long time. It does seem, by your first post, that you NEED him to night wean. Hold the course but explore other options for his constant need to nurse and dark eye circles. Hugs to you. It is hard but you are doing a good job. Your needs are important too.

There are lots of ways to get more fat in his diet. Add canola oil, olive oil, avocados. In the second year, solids become the primary source of nutrition and breastmilk secondary. This is normal and healthy.

If he has allergies, you might find a nutritionist to help you plan his meals. Insurance often pays for this if there is a medical need. Again, a checkup at the doc is a good place to start to see what is up.

btw: My dd1 gets crusty behind her ears when they are not clean. No other reason than dirt.

And, don't add back the nightnursing. Back pedalling is not going to do either of you any good. You need to get to the source of his health problems and add fats in other ways.

*Take care of you, too!*


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## WillyMom (May 1, 2007)

I would take him to the ped ASAP. A three pound weight loss in a young toddler is a lot. How much does he weigh? I am assuming around 25lb? So three pounds is 12% of his body weight. I would not add back night nursing until after you talk to your ped. 7 hours of not nursing should not cause such a dramatic weight loss!


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## mamalapo (Oct 18, 2006)

Just wanted to say that i can relate to the problem of depression and sleep deprevation, and how it can put you from mildly depressed to a full blown episode when you have gone months, or years with little sleep. It is important to take care of yourself so you can best take care of child. My dd last quite a bit of weight when weaned at 2 1/4 yrs, I had to wean for medical issue, she was not happy to eat regular food, and I think she lost about 4lbs (and was skinny to start with). I was very worried about her, and she screamed for months from weaning, I felt terible. She is still difficult at night so it has been a long road for us. I hope things start getting better for you. I agree with the others, he may have a food allergy, and the sleep deprivation may also be effecting him??


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## delphiniumpansy (Mar 1, 2007)

http://www.kidshealth.org/parent/med...rt/anemia.html

check this out


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## Binta (Sep 29, 2006)

Thanks for your responses. It is nice to know I am not alone and that others have btdt. It is just hard in the moment, ya know?

I will get him tested for anemia just in case. And I love the idea about a nutritionist - I'll look into that too.

I keep thinking that here I am at almost 40 having such a hard time with things, and then in my next thought I wonder why my 19 month old isn't handling things better (his tantrums)... Ha. I should be glad he is expressing himself. I wish I could get away with a tantrum from time to time. I'm too worried about how I would look thrashing about on the floor.









I'll just take deep breaths and make sure there aren't any medical problems in my non-verbal lad's life. That and keep chanting 'this too shall pass, this too shall pass".

Thanks again for your words!


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## prettypixels (Apr 13, 2006)

Just sending you a







, I hope you figure out what is going on and get that weight back on him!


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## Binta (Sep 29, 2006)

Thanks for that!


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## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

3lbs is a phenomenal weight loss. I would take him right to the doctor. How often is he nursing during the day? I would do a weigh/feed/weigh to check and see how much he is taking when he nurses in case n/w'ing has had a big impact on your supply.

I am v. supportive of n/w'ing but something here is not right. Please let us know what the doctor says.


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## nylecoj (Apr 24, 2007)

Yeah, I'd take him in right away too. At least call them and speak with somebody.

The two things could be completely unrelated and just coincidentally linked.

Good luck, mama!


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

have you discussed the gluten intolerance with a doctor? I don't want to scare you (remember this is just some random internet person brainstorming), but difficuties with weight gain is a symptom of coeliac disease (as is gluten intolerance - it's a reaction to gluten in their food). Are you totally obsessive about the gluten, in everything including stamps, playdough, food wax, in both your diet and his? If not, I think I'd talk to a doc about coeliac. Weight loss with only seven hours of fasting, and lots of food at other times of day does not sound right.


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## Binta (Sep 29, 2006)

I ended up taking him to the Dr. yesterday. He is anemic (10.5). Today I will take him to the lab for a CBC and urinalysis. The Dr. doesn't think they will find anything else, but wants to be sure.

I also had them refer a nuritionist.

My sister is a celiac, so I'm fairly versed in the crazy places that you find wheat/gluten. I am looking forward to discussing DS dietary restrictions with the dietician though.

Now to increase his iron as naturally as possible.

I am glad to know I wasn't overreacting. I appreciate all the advice (and the anemia link).

Peace


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## vermontgirl (Aug 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 









Honestly in that situation I would try adding night nursing back and see if things improved.

-Angela

Are you hearing this mama? She is saying that she is tired, depressed and that night nursing doesnt work for her family. We all know that you think children should nurse on demand around the clock until they self-wean but try and take into consideration that not everyone jives with that scenerio. A 19 month old does not HAVE to nurse at night anymore and there is no way that a three pound weight loss can be acredited to night weaning in a child this age. It is wonderful if it works out but it is not working out for Binta.

Binta, I am happy to read that you found the issue-low iron. This can be the cause of the temper tantrums and the highly sensitive disposition as well. Low iron definitely causes behavior problems.

Good luck mama.


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## Mama2E&O (Sep 7, 2004)

By the time I found this post it seems you are already getting help, and I am glad for that!
I wanted to also tell you that my son went through a very difficult time between 18-20 months- his behavior changed dramatically and he threw a lot of tantrums, cried a lot, and seemed unhappy compared with how he'd previously been. I remember reading somewhere that it was normal for that age- I don't remember specifics right now. .sorry!
He could be going through a combination of several things at once: normal behavior changes, anemia, and adjusting to night weaning, etc.
I really do not think night weaning alone could cause such problems though!
I hope things get better!


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## Binta (Sep 29, 2006)

I do hope that we have found the problems that need to be addressed, and that once they are resolved, then I can deal with the craziness that normal childhood has to offer.









I am wondering if I am anemic too, and that may be contributing to some of my own problems.

Thanks again for all of your support!


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

That's brilliant, I hope it works quickly! Who said internet message boards couldn't diagnose anything?!

I've heard good things about floradix as an iron supplement.


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## AKfamily (Jan 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Binta* 
I ended up taking him to the Dr. yesterday. He is anemic (10.5).

Now to increase his iron as naturally as possible.

Peace

We had great luck with Floradix's Floravital iron + herbs for anemia at 12 mo - for our wonderfully sensitive kiddo it has to be this one and not the regular Floradix which has yeast and orange juice.
Good luck!


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vermontgirl* 
Are you hearing this mama? She is saying that she is tired, depressed and that night nursing doesnt work for her family.

I was more concerned about her child in this situation, since she said:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Binta* 
Here is my concern: he has lost 3 pounds (in 3 weeks). He has dark circles under his eyes and his skin's pallor is apparent.


It sounds like a serious health situation.

-Angela


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## seawind (Sep 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I was more concerned about her child in this situation

-Angela

It is worrisome, yes. But, doesn't a mother need to be well nourished in order to ensure optimal nourishment for her breast-fed child?


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## crazyrunningmama (Dec 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Binta* 

I am wondering if I am anemic too, and that may be contributing to some of my own problems.


You have probably already thought of this, but maybe get your thyroid checked as well. Hypothyroidism (low functioning) feels a lot like depression (and can compound things if you ARE depressed).

My 2 cents: crusty ears, maybe this is TMI, but I get that and have since I was a kid. It is excema and I use a Rx cream on it. If I catch it right away the cream works after one application, if I don't it is itchy and annoying and can get really gross. I understand that food sensitivities can make this worse. I have also gotten it in my armpits and belly button ! Now that really is TMI!!









My other 2 cents: I nightweaned over Christmas. I totally hear where you are at. My dd is 20 months, I was at the end of my rope. She wanted to be latched on from 3 am onwards and would wake and cry if I tried to move an inch. I looked into the Jay Gordon technique and attempted it on the first night. But I realized that I know my kid best and I think that the 7 hour thing is too confusing for her. Especially in the winter (it would be different if I could say she could only bf when it's light, but it's never light!!). So I changed the bedtime routine to include sitting up in a chair to nurse and I don't nurse until we go downstairs in the morning, period. She is in a toddler bed. I come to her whenever she wakes and cries. It has helped a lot, she still wakes often some nights, but other nights she has slept 7:30 to 4am, gone back to sleep with me comforting her and singing (she doesn't want to be picked up or have her back rubbed or I would). And she only cried and asked to nurse the first night during her first and second wakings!!!! After that she just "got it" and accepts other comforting. So there's hope. Good luck to you and take care of yourself.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *seawind* 
It is worrisome, yes. But, doesn't a mother need to be well nourished in order to ensure optimal nourishment for her breast-fed child?

Actually, studies show that even extremely malnourished women provide adequate breastmilk.

I am not belittling this mama's needs at all. Clearly she needs to take care of herself as well. But a child losing 3lbs in 3 weeks is a serious situation and IMO would be a time that the child's immediate needs come first.

-Angela


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## seawind (Sep 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Actually, studies show that even extremely malnourished women provide adequate breastmilk.

I am not belittling this mama's needs at all. Clearly she needs to take care of herself as well. But a child losing 3lbs in 3 weeks is a serious situation and IMO would be a time that the child's immediate needs come first.

-Angela

I believe there is a significant and important difference between adequate and optimal. and this is the difference that makes a serious impact on the overall health profile of the child. And here is where the mother's nourishment and well being come into the picture, so she IS in a better place to attend to her child's need as best she can. Which this mother is clearly wanting and trying to do.

To the OP, several mothers have pretty good and empathetic advice for you. You and your child are going though a rough patch and I hope everything works out well.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Actually, studies show that even extremely malnourished women provide adequate breastmilk.

I am not belittling this mama's needs at all. Clearly she needs to take care of herself as well. But a child losing 3lbs in 3 weeks is a serious situation and IMO would be a time that the child's immediate needs come first.

-Angela

I agree...and I would take that child to a Dr. ASAP. I would want to rule out any other issues.


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## delphiniumpansy (Mar 1, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
That's brilliant, I hope it works quickly! Who said internet message boards couldn't diagnose anything?!

I've heard good things about floradix as an iron supplement.

I am quite fond of floradix. I think it tastes good! I use it myself but I also would not hesitate to use it for my children if they needed it. Do they make a children's version? I think they do.

So glad you got a diagnosis. It is always helpful to know what to do and where to go. The nutritionist should be a big help. Went to one with my first dd and it helped a lot. She is a robust and healthy almost five year old now!


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## AKfamily (Jan 6, 2007)

Floradix has a children's multi but imo it has too many ingredients for a sensitive system. I have been happy with the Floravital for my ds, just fruits, herbs and veggie juices and specific for iron supplementation.


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## Binta (Sep 29, 2006)

I love this forum. Not only does one get great advice, but various great advice to pick and choose from to fit ones personality and needs.

I am thrilled to get your replies. All of them. You can see from my posts that I rarely post here, but have been a lurker for awhile. It's nice to see how posting isn't such a scary thing after all...









Crazyrunningmama - Thanks for the reminder about checking my thyroid. I am going to get a physical next week and that wasn't even on my radar. Glad you mentioned it. I've read many Momma's on this forum talk about this, but my synapses didn't quite make the connection to how this could be part of my problem. Also, your crust wasn't TMI - another example of why I love this forum. Easier to share these details .









On another note, the nightweaning is now going remarkedly better. I too thought the 7 hours was rather random, but I was so determined to just do it, and didn't really have any other ideas, so just stuck to it. It took 3 weeks and I never did get to the 3rd part of it. That's okay though, it's working and I am fairly sure by the time he is ready for college he won't have to nurse any longer. (A friend of mine keeps saying that to me. It took her son years to potty train and the only thing that got her through it was knowing she would definately succeed in getting him on the toilet before he headed off for college.) Speaking of synapses, that was a random thought!

AKFamily - Thanks for the Floravital suggestion. I'll look into it. Yesterday I bought a bunch of chard, shitake mushrooms and liver. Hmm. Can't imagine why DS wasn't interested in it....hee hee.

My son has gained back 1.5 pounds. I am thrilled to death and am glad the tide has turned (so to speak - and knock on wood).

Hope all you Mommas out there have a great Sunday!


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