# Baby who won't STAY asleep in early evening...any advice?



## Phoebe (Jun 12, 2003)

Well, I have yet to find a book that addresses this...except of course to let him CIO and that ain't gonna happen.

Here is my 8mnth old boy in a nutshell:
*has ALWAYS been a short napper but I'm able to nurse him back to sleep if I stay near him and catch him just as he wakes.
*has ALWAYS awakend several times between when we lay him down to when we come to bed at night. Usually around 7-10pm.

Ok. Last night I was angry at my poor little guy and I snapped at him







We have got to fix this. He does all the "standard" stuff. For example, he gets up at 7am or so naps at around 8:30-9am then naps again at about 1pm then at 6:30pm or so he takes his bath and is nursed/rocked to sleep by 7pm. Here's where it gets tricky. We lay him down in our family bed upstairs with a monitor on. Most nights about every 20 minutes he wakes up and now he is beginning to crawl around the bed. I've seen him do it. He rolls over in his sleep onto his hands and knees and he starts to fuss and crawl around. I get to him somtimes before he makes it up to his knees and I can nurse him back. Othertimes I have to bring him back downstairs and rock/nurse again. Now he has taken to clapping his hands in his sleep til he wakes...yes, it's cute! Last night I had to bring him down 3-4 times...I lost coun't in my irritation.
How do I get him to STAY down??? Ok, frankly I need to have relationship with my husband again at somepoint. I can count on my hands how many times we've been intimate since ds arrived. I need to be a wife to my husband as well as a mother to my son. I know it won't last forever but I need some help NOW!!

oh, BTW, he usually (95%) settles into sleep at 9pm. HE still wakes a few times to nurse but that is just fine. I just need 2 hours or an hour and 1/2 to connect with dh.

Please help!!!!!!
amy


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## tuhraycee (Dec 3, 2004)

Wow, are we living in a parallel universe or what? You just described bedtime at our house exactly! My ds is 9 months old and won't stay asleep until we both go to bed. I'm sure it's a separation anxiety thing, but no sure how to effectively deal with it.

Long story short, I'm subscribing to see what advice you get!


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## stafl (Jul 1, 2002)

honestly, I can only tell you what works for me, and it probably won't work for your kid. All babies are different! When my baby goes to sleep, I go to bed with her. That's what I have to do, so that's what I do. Usually I'm so tired by the time she goes to sleep, that i have to sleep too anyway. Intimate time with DH can happen in the morning, before the kids wake up, if it happens at all. But, two hours??!!?? Sheesh, we just need twenty minutes







It's just easier for us that way, since both of them will sleep on in the mornings after we get up, but they absolutely will not stay asleep at night if we don't go to bed with them.
It also helps if I keep her up in the evenings, don't let her have those short naps too late, so she'll stay asleep when she does finally go to bed. I know my kids don't get as much sleep as most (but they both do sleep all night), but it sounds to me like he's napping an awful lot. To expect him to sleep from 7pm to 7am is just not realistic, especially with all that napping, too.


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## Phoebe (Jun 12, 2003)

Hmmm...I hadn't thought of 7 to 7 as being unrealistic. You may have something there. He passes out HARD at the breast at 6:45 every night though. The NCSS does say babies at 9 months (he's a week away) should nap 21/2-4 hour a day (2 naps) and sleep 11-12 hours at night. He sleeps
2 1/2 hrs during the day and 10-11 realisticaly at night. I don't know how unreasonable that is. Dr. Sears The Baby Book states similar times for that age range as well.
When I said 2 hours I didn't mean just for makin' whoopie!!! Holy cow that didn't go down even before marriage!! :LOL
I just need some time during my day to be baby free...I don't think an hour and 1/2 is too much to ask of a 9 month old baby. We aren't late night people. 10pm is it for us. So, maybe I should try to make bedtime closer to 8 or 8:30. I can't go to bed with my baby at 7 or even 8pm. I have to have some adult time in there or I'd go nuts. I need to enjoy a glass of wine and play cribbage with my husband.

I will test out a later bed time tonight...


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I'd agree - try a later bed time. Some babies just don't need as much sleep as others. My 4.5mo old doesn't get NEARLY that much. Nowhere near most days. She goes to bed when we do (~midnight usually.)

Good luck!
-Angela


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## ScotiaSky (Jul 2, 2004)

No advice for you as we are in the same boat...he sleeps great once I go to bed with him...but like you I want some adult time with my DF at night.
I've spent the entire day alone with my DS. Besides going to bed at 8pm with Hunter doesn't appeal to me, as it is going to bed at 10 or 11 I lay awake for hours staring at the ceiling and it drives me nuts.
And waking up with my DF for some alone time at 5am doesn't do it for either of us lol

So I am looking for some advice as well and am sort of happy to see that I am not alone.

ETA Hunter will be 9 months on Friday the 24th. I also think that the fact he has leant to crawl, pull himself up and got two more teeth in the last month hasn't been helping his sleeping patterns.


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## APCDmama (Dec 22, 2004)

Hi there! I could have written your post.







I'm going through exactly the same problem with DD, who just turned 8 mths yesterday. From day one, she has slept far less than the "average" baby (if there really is one out there!), and seems to be dropping her naps (which last only 15-20 minutes max) at an alarming rate. I know exactly what you mean about getting some time in with DH! It just doesn't happen around here, either. I am trying to put DD to bed a bit later this week, around 9 p.m., to see if that helps, but it doesn't really free up much "alone time" with DH. Like you, I'm a 10 p.m. bedtime sorta gal. Good luck! I'll let you know if the later bedtime works for us...


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## Phoebe (Jun 12, 2003)

Well, here is what we're gonna try...

Dh and I discussed it and Manu is TRULY tired at around 7pm. Last night I bathed and then rocked him to sleep at this, his usual, time. But instead of taking him up to the bed, we layed him on the futon (which we have permanently layed out like a bed in the basement) in the basement with us. He awoke 1 time and was resettled easily since I was knitting in the dark on the futon next to him. Then, at 8:30 I took him up to our bed and he stayed there asleep until I came up at 10. I think this may be the solution for us. He slept peacefully until 7am. He needs about 11-12 hrs a night.

Maybe thats an idea for those who share my problem!

Amy


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

Well, glad that you found something that is working. My lil' man is almost 5 mo. and very, very rarely sleeps without me, usually if I get up he might last 20 min. So, I lay down with him on the couch around 8 and then stay with him, sometimes I get up for a lil' while, but usually don't risk it, we both go to bed at 9:30 or 10p. I can completely understand wanting some time, it is soo frustrating sometimes.

amanda


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## kweir (Sep 13, 2004)

Here is another suggestion...maybe his bedtime is too late? If he zonks out at 6:45 maybe he would settle down better if you started his bed time routine earlier...I know that sounds weird but it actually works for our dd. We try to get her to bed as early as possible and she ends up sleeping better. If we miss her window then it can take forver to get her down b/c she has gotten that 2nd or 3rd wind. We do the whole bath, books, nurse, bed thing and start it at about 5 pm and try to have her nursing by 6:15- 6:30 and asleep by 7 ish. It also depends on how busy her day was nad how the naps went...sometimes we push the bedtime up.
I read "Health Sleep Habits, Happy Child" by Weissbluth. It explains sleep patterns and the need for sleep very well. I ignored anything about cio...and he does not suggest that nursing to sleep is wrong or bad and he does not think family beds are wrong or bad either. I think there is a lot of good information with a few things that don't apply to us...


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## nicholas_mom (Apr 23, 2004)

My ds did this too at around 8 months, sometimes teething, sometimes because of things. Either way, by 12 months or less it went away.

Hang in there. It is a phase that WILL pass!!


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## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

seems to me that babies do not like to sleep alone. i think it is totally acceptable to put them down before you sometimes though. that is how siblings happen!







as my ds got older, it was easier to put him down to bed before i went to bed. also if i take a nap w/ him during the day, he doesn't seem to mind as much. the older he got the less he woke up. it used to be like after 20 mins he would notice i was gone, but now he might need to nurse back to sleep only 1-2 times before i go to bed or maybe none at all. oh man, if jason can sleep alone eventually, i imagine they all do. i used to be touching him for all his sleeping hours until he was six months old.


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## gabry (Jan 21, 2004)

Phoebe, I hope this thing will keep working for you. We went through a similar phase with ds around that age, and for a while we would actually let him sleep in the living room in his babycarseat that he had outgrown. Seemed that just being close to us, even while it was somewhat noisy and bright, he'd sleep better. And, yes, it does get better, even tho at the time it seemed like it never would. I do think it's related to milestones / not being able to 'turn off'.
I think your ds does probably need at least as much sleep as he's getting, and agree with pp that sometimes it can work to put him to sleep earlier rather than later.
As for private time with dh, yeah, we just got creative (naptime on weekends, middle of the night, lotsa quickies)








Hang in there!


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## The Lucky One (Oct 31, 2002)

Wish I had some helpful hints, but we are in exactly the same boat. Exactly. Ds2 goes down around 8pm and until 11pm when I go to bed he is usually awake 3-4 times being nursed back to sleep. And yes, it is maddening at times, although I'm just about used to it by now.

Oh, and ds1 was exactly the same way. It wasn't until he was around 13-14 months old that he started staying asleep after he was put to bed.

Quote:

To expect him to sleep from 7pm to 7am is just not realistic, especially with all that napping, too.
I disagree. It doesn't sound to me like he is napping all that much and at his age most recommendations I've read were for 13.5-14 hrs of sleep total in a 24 hr period.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:

The NCSS does say babies at 9 months (he's a week away) should nap 21/2-4 hour a day (2 naps) and sleep 11-12 hours at night.








Seriously? That's 13.5- 16 HOURS in a 24 hour period. At nine months?







: My kids both owe me some back sleep and I want it soon







At that age DD took a 1.5 hour nap (one) on a good day and then slept 10-11 hours at night (10-12.5 hours daily). DS was also down to one nap (maybe 45 minutes) and then 11-12 hours at night. And I held them both to nap and laid down with them at night.







Wonder if I can convince my 5 & 3 year old that they "owe" me some extra naps :LOL


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## tammylc (Apr 4, 2004)

Here's a success story for you all...

We had exactly the same situation, with DS waking about every 40 minutes after I put him down. And everytime DS woke, I would go upstairs and get into bed with him and nurse him back down. I was getting really nursed out, not to mention tired of having to do all the nighttime parenting myself.

I'm totally into nursing on demand, but I knew that DS wasn't actually hungry 37 minutes after the last time he nursed - he just didn't know how to go to sleep any other way. So what I did was to stop nursing him between when he went to bed and when I came in to join him (usually between 10 and 11). If he woke up, DH or I would go upstairs and help him get back to sleep without nursing (which usually involved lying down with him on our chests and patting his back until he fell asleep, then carefully slipping him off and onto the bed). I'll be honest - he did cry a few tears. But we were there with him the whole time, holding him and rocking him and patting him - I'm sure some people will consider this CIO, but I don't.

I wasn't necessarily trying to get him to sleep longer, although I hoped that's what would happen, I just needed a break from the nursing and a little bit of time to myself, and DH was as capable of "thumping" DS back to sleep as I was. But after just a couple of nights of this, he started sleeping longer and longer. Now he usually gets to the 2 1/2 hour mark before waking, by which point I'm usually heading into bed anyway. He's also gotten better about putting himself back to sleep - we'll hear one little cry on the monitor, and he's back asleep before we can get upstairs to comfort him.

That's what worked for us. DS still nurses all night long after I get into bed, but he always has. We're going to work on that one next, because not sleeping longer than 2 hours in a row for almost 8 months is really starting to catch up to me. But we're waiting for DS to get over his cold and teething his first tooth before we change anything else.

Hope that helps some of you - obviously each baby (and family) is different and what worked for us might not work for you.


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## mandalamama (Sep 1, 2004)

i can't advise since i only have a 10-week-old, but i've often wondered why so many babies are put to bed so early in the evening? i mean, i know when it's school time Willow will need earlier sleep, but for now i just put her to bed with me, around midnight. she sleeps until 5-7am, wakes to eat and then sleeps again for 3-4 hours. we also have a very dark bedroom, neither of us are morning people and the sun wakes us up. it's like a cozy little cave or cocoon







we spend our intimate times together when she naps during the day (we call it "stolen moments" *grin*) or right after she goes to sleep and i go to sleep afterwards. (my husband is a shift worker and stays up even later). so i guess the only advice i can give for a situation like this is, evaluate if you really need the baby to go to bed so early? and also darken the room, perhaps?


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## tammylc (Apr 4, 2004)

Mellybean - the general wisdom of all the "sleep experts" is that most babies sleep best with earlier bedtimes (and early wakings - ugh). It's the one thing both the CIO and non-CIO camps both agree on. If you think about circadian rhythms and biological clocks and light cues, it makes sense. It's certainly been true for Liam - we started off bringing him to bed when we went, but as he got older it became clear that he was tired and ready for bed right after dinner, and I wasn't ready to join him then... He's had a regular bedtime since about 5 months or so, I think.

But I know families, like yours, for whom a late bedtime works best, so obviously it's different strokes for different folks!


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## APCDmama (Dec 22, 2004)

It's only been two nights, but the 9 p.m. bedtime is working for us. I put DD to bed and she sleeps until I climb in later, around 10-11. Is it possible some babies are "night-owl" types, naturally, just like adults? I'm an "early-bird" myself, but DH is definitely an owl. I've read my share of the sleep research, but in the end I go with what my daughter seems to need. If later bedtimes work for your family, mellybean, go for it! Personally, I would love it if DD went to bed earlier, (a month ago she was going to bed at 7, so maybe there's still hope!







) but if she sleeps better at a later time, I'll just work with it. She is happy, active, and content during the day, so I assume her personal sleep needs are being met. Every child is different.

Phoebe, glad you've found something that's working!







I sometimes lie down beside DD and read in the evenings. That way, if she wakes up a few times I can settle her quickly and easily, while also doing something I enjoy. Takes the frustration out of frequent wakings!

tammylc, thanks for your success story! Very reassuring to know that there are ways to meet the challenges of nursing-on-demand and night nursing. I want to encourage DD to fall asleep more without the aid of my breast. DH and I also put her to sleep by bouncing her in our arms while sitting on an exercise ball (Anyone else tried this? It works great for us!), or simply patting her back to sleep when she wakes up at night. I want to have as many options as possible! IMO, your strategy does not fall under the CIO label if you are physically present and actively providing comfort. You are teaching alternative, independent ways to fall asleep in a kind, sensitive way.


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## mandalamama (Sep 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tammylc*
Mellybean - the general wisdom of all the "sleep experts" is that most babies sleep best with earlier bedtimes (and early wakings - ugh). It's the one thing both the CIO and non-CIO camps both agree on. If you think about circadian rhythms and biological clocks and light cues, it makes sense. It's certainly been true for Liam - we started off bringing him to bed when we went, but as he got older it became clear that he was tired and ready for bed right after dinner, and I wasn't ready to join him then... He's had a regular bedtime since about 5 months or so, I think.

But I know families, like yours, for whom a late bedtime works best, so obviously it's different strokes for different folks!

i'm thinking it might be genetic, my husband and i have always been night owls. i sleep best if i go to bed at midnight, my husband sleeps best if he goes to sleep at around 3am. so it makes sense Willow might take after us, at least this early in her life







i notice she always takes a short nap from 8-9pm that doesn't interfere with her sleeping at bedtime, so she really must take after me (i'm a cat-napper).


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## jraohc (Nov 5, 2004)

I also could have posted this! Thanks for sharing your wisdom!


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## cndbain (Dec 27, 2004)

Add me to the list of people apparently all having the same problem







My seven month old son falls asleep easily at 7:00-7:30, then wakes up in exactly half an hour. At that point it takes almost an hour of music, exercise ball bouncing, and nursing to get him back to sleep again. Thanks to everyone who replied, it's nice to at least know we're in good company.

-Candace


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