# infant seats/ hammock things in restaurants/ groc carts



## HarperRose (Feb 22, 2007)

another thread got me thinking about this question.

From a manufacturer's pov, is it ok to put the infant carseat on one of those hammock things at restaurants? What about grocery carts?

So many ppl do it, but what's the real "law" about it? Is there one?

And what's the difference between setting the seat in the groc cart or the hammock thing and setting it on your living room floor?

I'm speaking strictly from the manufacturer's pov, not the risk of some moron tossing a can of peas on the baby's head because they think it's their cart behind them and they're not looking to be sure.

Also, let's just trust that MDC'ers don't just leave their babies in the infant seats all day long.


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## PassionateWriter (Feb 27, 2008)

ironically i found a Mothering article on this:

http://www.mothering.com/articles/gr...car-seats.html


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## PassionateWriter (Feb 27, 2008)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...breathing.html

http://www.newhorizonacademy.net/dow&#8230;eat_Safety.pdf

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=2709135&page=1

http://www.parenting.com/Common/phot&#8230;yID=1000021358

of course there are arguments that these issues may not be a huge risk. but they are the reason that i dont use them.


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## HarperRose (Feb 22, 2007)

Dang, you are good!


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Most of the grocery stores around here have signs where you pick up the cart that specifically say to NOT put the infant seats up on top.


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## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DahliaRW* 
Most of the grocery stores around here have signs where you pick up the cart that specifically say to NOT put the infant seats up on top.

I have NEVER seen that...

The carts around here tell you not to let your kid stand in the main basket, or be unattended, or stand in the sitting area. But I have NEVER seen a sign saying not to put an infant basket on the top of the cart.


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## HarperRose (Feb 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
I have NEVER seen that...

The carts around here tell you not to let your kid stand in the main basket, or be unattended, or stand in the sitting area. But I have NEVER seen a sign saying not to put an infant basket on the top of the cart.

Yeah, same here.

Interesting.


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Yeah, I can't see ever feeling safe with the infant seat on top of the cart.

The other night, our cart full of groceries with my four-year-old in the seat (sitting correctly) nearly toppled over on the way to the car, just because of the slope of the parking lot (WAY too steep for a place where people have to negotiate carts, IMO... this isn't the first problem I've had, but it was the scariest). If the baby had been in his bucket on top, he would have fallen right off and onto the asphalt. While he would have still been strapped in, he would have fallen face-down most likely, which could not have been good for his immature neck.

As it was, I couldn't right the cart without DH's help. It was everything I could do to keep it from going over.


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## MaterPrimaePuellae (Oct 30, 2007)

Hmm... my graco had a latch that snapped into the cart and ridges that seemed designed to fit into the child seat. I used it often at the time... but I would probably not do so with another baby (to minimize time in the carseat) At the same time, i think my infant strapped into the carseat latched into the cart would probably fare better than my 15 mo sitting in the seat in the event of the cart tipping over. ? nak!


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## queenjane (May 17, 2004)

My son doesnt fit in his infant seat anymore, but when he did, i couldnt put it on the top of the cart, because it wasnt designed to fit (as some seats appear to be), it would thrust him really far forward. Occasionally when i didnt have much choice and it was a cart that seemed to accomodate the seat a bit better, i would do it, but then would need to keep my hands on the seat at all times because i was worried it would fall over. but usually i would just put him in the basket/main part of the cart, and that left VERY little room for actual groceries. PITA!

Interestingly enough, i've been trying to shop at places with the built in car seats already in the cart.....but i just read the little instructions on those, and they only go up to 18 pounds! My boy is 22 pounds now, and i will continue to use them (because i cant see how it could be dangerous...they seem very sturdy). He cant really sit up well yet, but i've been trying to have him sit (on his own, strapped in) in the seat part, and so far he's doing ok. It doesnt seem *that* safe, because if we accidently hit something or someone bumped us i think his face would go slamming into the handle, but babywearing has not yet worked well for us.

Now....as far as those "slings" go.....i dont get them at all. they seem sooooo unsafe! They gave us one with the buckle broken! and i bet most people dont even strap the seat into the sling they just perch it on top.

Years ago, when my older son was a baby, i learned the trick that most moms seem to know, of turning those wooden high chairs over, and placing the seat in the "bottom" (which is now the top)...MUCH safer than those slings, because it actually is sturdy and has a lower gravity point or something. The seats nestle down in there very well (so much so that i suspect they were actually designed to accomodate a seat, though i cant be certain.) I guess because parents were doing this, they designed those horrible slings. I dont feel particularly safe in using them.

Even though we dont use the infant seat anymore in the car, i still bring it along to use in restaurants as my son doesnt sit in a high chair yet. Many booths will accomodate the seat, but i was surprised to find that many do not, the seat is too wide. It can be very frustrating! I've also put him in his umbrella stroller and had him sit in that as well, if there was room in the restaurant.

Katherine


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## MommyJoia (Oct 31, 2007)

I always just wore my baby.

DD#1 now rides in the "race car" cart and DD#2 is in a mei tai.

Those infant car seats are soooo heavy with a big baby in them and they cause flat head.


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## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *queenjane* 
Years ago, when my older son was a baby, i learned the trick that most moms seem to know, of turning those wooden high chairs over, and placing the seat in the "bottom" (which is now the top)...MUCH safer than those slings, because it actually is sturdy and has a lower gravity point or something. The seats nestle down in there very well (so much so that i suspect they were actually designed to accomodate a seat, though i cant be certain.) I guess because parents were doing this, they designed those horrible slings. I dont feel particularly safe in using them.

See - I think that turning a highchair over is VERY dangerous. The bas is wider than the top - so they are stable when used properly.

If you turn them over - they are now narrower on the bottom than the top and much easier to tip.

We would put the bucket between the booth back and the table. It was very stable and very safe. Then once she woke up - we'd hold her.


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## queenjane (May 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
See - I think that turning a highchair over is VERY dangerous. The bas is wider than the top - so they are stable when used properly.

If you turn them over - they are now narrower on the bottom than the top and much easier to tip..


Thats what it might seem...but its not really. I was forced to do this recently (well, a few months ago) at a restaurant because the seat would not fit in the booth at all, there was no room on top of the table for the seat, and i didnt want to stick him out in the aisle way....so i flipped the (very dirty sticky) highchair. It had been like 11 yrs since i'd done such a thing, so i was a little nervous, but i shook the highchair, and it really didnt move much at all...the seat is nestled down in the "v" and fits really well. And even though the top is wider than the bottom, the bottom seems big enough to handle it.

In any case....it seems MUCH more stable (and thus at least somewhat safer) than those sling things that are supposed to be designed for seats. I'm not advocating using either method (usually, i can just fit the seat in the booth, but not always) but sometimes you're stuck w/ few options.

Katherine


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## queenjane (May 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyJoia* 
I always just wore my baby.

I read this all the time, and i dont get it. I'm really trying to picture how one wears a baby while sitting in a booth. I guess maybe i could see it at a table, if you scoot your chair waaaay back, but a booth? Is the kid laying on the table? I know when i have to feed my son i have to literally lay him in front of me on the table, there isnt room between my body and the edge of the table. I certainly couldnt eat while holding him this way. If i need to hold him while i'm eating (if he isnt content to sit in his seat or whatever), i have to hold him on one knee, kind of off to the side/in the aisle. I dont see at all how one could have a baby in a mei tai while sitting in a booth.

Unless, i guess, you are really skinny. Which i most definitely am not.









Katherine


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *queenjane* 
I read this all the time, and i dont get it. I'm really trying to picture how one wears a baby while sitting in a booth. I guess maybe i could see it at a table, if you scoot your chair waaaay back, but a booth? Is the kid laying on the table? I know when i have to feed my son i have to literally lay him in front of me on the table, there isnt room between my body and the edge of the table. I certainly couldnt eat while holding him this way. If i need to hold him while i'm eating (if he isnt content to sit in his seat or whatever), i have to hold him on one knee, kind of off to the side/in the aisle. I dont see at all how one could have a baby in a mei tai while sitting in a booth.

Unless, i guess, you are really skinny. Which i most definitely am not.









I'm not either. Most of the places we go, the table can move, so DH scoots it toward him and DS1. Then me and baby fit just fine.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DahliaRW* 
Most of the grocery stores around here have signs where you pick up the cart that specifically say to NOT put the infant seats up on top.

I've never seen that either, although that might be true for the carts at Wild Oats or Trader Joes, as they are a little smaller than others. I got one of those travel systems where the carseat fit on top of the stroller for when the baby was young and still rode in the infant seat. I thought the design was deliberate to also fit on grocery cart seats, as the grooves for the bar of the stroller fit over the back of the grocery cart seat. But now that you are mentioning this as a use not supported by the manufacturer, I have to say I have no clue. I never realized that was the case, although I'm sure it is true they don't fit in some carts.


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Viola* 
I've never seen that either, although that might be true for the carts at Wild Oats or Trader Joes, as they are a little smaller than others. I got one of those travel systems where the carseat fit on top of the stroller for when the baby was young and still rode in the infant seat. I thought the design was deliberate to also fit on grocery cart seats, as the grooves for the bar of the stroller fit over the back of the grocery cart seat. But now that you are mentioning this as a use not supported by the manufacturer, I have to say I have no clue. I never realized that was the case, although I'm sure it is true they don't fit in some carts.


When I've noticed the signs, they have been a small sign on the back wall right when you get the carts. They really aren't noticeable at all, but I'm sure the stores put them there so they can't get sued if a baby gets hurt.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I would occasionally put my daughter in her car seat in the main part of the grocery cart - NOT ON TOP - if she was sleeping and I didn't want to wake her up. I would never put her up high on anything because that's just asking for trouble. Usually I'd just wear her in her sling. Especially in restaurants because she'd seem to want to nurse all the time in restaurants anyway. But those seats up high look very precarious. And I'd be afraid to put a baby in a bucket on the floor for fear someone, possibly carrying trays of hot food or something, might trip over it. Bad news.

The best thing about the bucket type seats is that you can get your baby set up inside in a warm seat in winter, and then get everything quickly put in the car without the baby getting cold. Putting a little baby in a cold seat isn't great. And getting a baby organized in a car seat in the winter isn't much fun. And then when you get home you can just take the whole warm baby in the warm seat back inside and take the baby out of the seat in the warmth.

The shopping cart thing isn't much of a convenience because it isn't safe up top, and if the baby is in the main part of the cart there isn't much space for groceries anyway, so it's really only useful if the baby is asleep and you only need like one or two things. Which is why I said it was something I did only very occasionally.


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *queenjane* 
Thats what it might seem...but its not really. I was forced to do this recently (well, a few months ago) at a restaurant because the seat would not fit in the booth at all, there was no room on top of the table for the seat, and i didnt want to stick him out in the aisle way....so i flipped the (very dirty sticky) highchair. It had been like 11 yrs since i'd done such a thing, so i was a little nervous, but i shook the highchair, and it really didnt move much at all...the seat is nestled down in the "v" and fits really well. And even though the top is wider than the bottom, the bottom seems big enough to handle it.

In any case....it seems MUCH more stable (and thus at least somewhat safer) than those sling things that are supposed to be designed for seats. I'm not advocating using either method (usually, i can just fit the seat in the booth, but not always) but sometimes you're stuck w/ few options.

Katherine

Interesting enough, we went out to lunch today and the restaurant high chair had a sticker on it that said to not use it to hold infant child seats.


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## queenjane (May 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DahliaRW* 
Interesting enough, we went out to lunch today and the restaurant high chair had a sticker on it that said to not use it to hold infant child seats.


Oh, i can believe it. Probably just to reduce liability. (And i wonder if they meant, dont try to balance the seat on the top part?)....but i still dont see how those awful slings pass muster....they are sooooo flimsy, and putting a twenty pound baby plus a heavy seat on top of this lightweight mesh thing, out in the aisle as people are rushing by with trays of hot food....just seems like a bad idea. I dont see why they couldnt devise something at least a little safer/stable. Something as sturdy as a high chair but designed for seats. I bet its possible to even design a kind of hybrid chair, that can convert from a standard highchair, to one that easily and safely holds an infant seat. I think the restaurants like the slings because they fold up and take up very little space.

Katherine


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## PassionateWriter (Feb 27, 2008)

does anyone have any pix of those slings? i have never seen one and am having a hard time visualizing one. thanks!


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## queenjane (May 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PassionateWriter* 
does anyone have any pix of those slings? i have never seen one and am having a hard time visualizing one. thanks!


Here ya go...found this online:

http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/AvVDm..._CRGekBT3WeVdQ

Katherine


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I've seen a baby in a carseat fall out of an upside down wooden high chair at a restaurant. They're top heavy with the car seat and baby on top, and it only takes a small accidentally knock for everything to tumble.

The baby didn't appear to be seriously hurt or anything, but still it was awful and the baby certainly got knocked around a bit.


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## queenjane (May 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
I've seen a baby in a carseat fall out of an upside down wooden high chair at a restaurant. They're top heavy with the car seat and baby on top, and it only takes a small accidentally knock for everything to tumble.

The baby didn't appear to be seriously hurt or anything, but still it was awful and the baby certainly got knocked around a bit.


yeah, its certainly not ideal. but as i said, i used to use the "flipped hc" method all the time when my older (almost 12) son was a baby, and in all that time, there was never an issue. I learned the technique from a friend w/ a baby, and she never had an issue either. And the one time i did it with my younger son, it seemed pretty stable (would have had to be hit pretty hard to flip over, and the seat itself couldnt have fallen out, except perhaps if the baby tried to climb out or something but at the time he was too little to do that)....just seems alot safer than those slings, which are "designed" for seats.

Its hard, because if the babyseat won't fit in the booth, there arent a whole lot of options, and the options available all have a measure of risk (even holding a baby or babywearing, if you are eating or drinking hot food, could pose a risk.)

I wish someone would work on making a safe seat holder.

Katherine


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## HarperRose (Feb 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *queenjane* 
Now....as far as those "slings" go.....i dont get them at all. they seem sooooo unsafe! They gave us one with the buckle broken! and i bet most people dont even strap the seat into the sling they just perch it on top.

Yeah, when ds2 was smaller we put his whole seat in those w/ no buckle. I didn't even know they made them with buckles until recently when we were also provided one with a broken strap.

Quote:

Years ago, when my older son was a baby, i learned the trick that most moms seem to know, of turning those wooden high chairs over, and placing the seat in the "bottom" (which is now the top)...MUCH safer than those slings, because it actually is sturdy and has a lower gravity point or something. The seats nestle down in there very well (so much so that i suspect they were actually designed to accomodate a seat, though i cant be certain.) I guess because parents were doing this, they designed those horrible slings. I dont feel particularly safe in using them.
We did that w/ ds1 and dd's carseat. (They're 18 mos apart so we just graduated ds1 to a bigger seat and gave dd his infant one.) But ds2's seat is a Graco SafeSeat and it's got a bigger frame, so we can't do the flipped over wooden highchair.

Cracker Barrel has these big wooden trays, basically, that you can sit the seat on. It slides over the back rest of the regular chair and then the infant seat sits right on that. The tray is probably twice as big as the actual chair seat. Seems pretty safe to me.

Quote:

Even though we dont use the infant seat anymore in the car, i still bring it along to use in restaurants as my son doesnt sit in a high chair yet. Many booths will accomodate the seat,
Yes, we've found this as well, and have no trouble sliding his seat into the booth beside us. It's kind of handy, actually.

He's actually too heavy to carry in his infant seat now (25 lbs, 9 mos) but the seat goes to 30 lbs, so I intend to use it at least in the car. My others outgrew their seats around 5 mos.

I'd prefer to get ds out of the seat to bring him into places like the grocery store, but dh has a habit of just lugging the entire contraption in. (He's stronger, so I guess he doesn't notice the bulkiness of it the way I do.)


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## HarperRose (Feb 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *queenjane* 
I wish someone would work on making a safe seat holder.

Katherine

I completely agree. As I've said, my ds2 is a big boy, and while I love holding him and babywearing, it takes a toll on me. I have back issues and so when I babywear it can only be for short spurts. Yet hauling around that ginormous baby seat is WORSE. (That's why seeing dh haul it around baffles me.







)

So for the short term when I do haul around that seat, I need a safe base for it when the wee one is sound asleep and we're not.


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Why not just bring your stroller in and sit the carseat on that?


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## HarperRose (Feb 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DahliaRW* 
Why not just bring your stroller in and sit the carseat on that?

Because it's a safety hazard in the restaurant. Repositioning a carseat is much less cumbersome than repositioning the stroller.

Those sling things are a safety hazard, too, but ppl don't have a giant stroller handle in their way as they pass by.


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## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DahliaRW* 
Why not just bring your stroller in and sit the carseat on that?

Some of us don't have strollers that take car seats!

I don't. I don't want one either. We have a lovely umbrella stroller which can take an infant - but not a "travel system".


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## queenjane (May 17, 2004)

most restaurants dont have room for a big stroller that will accomodate an infant car seat (and i actually dont have a travel system. ) we use an umbrella stroller now, and when we go into a certain buffet that has tons of room, but no "slings" and the seat doesnt fit in the booths....we try to snag a booth in the corner way out of the way and just have him sit in the stroller. But if we tried to sit in a more crowded area of the restaurant, there's no way the big carts they use to pick up dishes would fit past a stroller.

Katherine


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