# Support outside of the "surviving abuse" forum



## Mama_2_Boy (Jun 18, 2007)

Is it possible to start a semi support thread here for those of us that want to talk about this subject and yet don't qualify for the "surviving abuse" forum? There are things I want to address and talk about because I know my upbringing is affecting how I am handling disciplining my own child and I am so frustrated right now. I really would like to reach out, but I am intimidated because I have seen how some can attack others on here when they open up.

Thoughts?


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## Momma_Camille (Jan 11, 2007)

I would love to talk about it too. Although I have the some of the same fears about being too honest about how I feel some days.







:

I'm certainly willing to give it a try with you!


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## Mama_2_Boy (Jun 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momma_Camille* 
I would love to talk about it too. Although I have the some of the same fears about being too honest about how I feel some days.







:

I'm certainly willing to give it a try with you!

Alrighty then, I will start.

I will just summarize by stating that I grew up in an angry household. There was lots of verbal abuse and some physical abuse as well (non-sexual). I find now with my only child (he is 34 months) that I am having a difficult time dealing with my own anger. I have addressed this issue before through counciling, and have been instructed to walk away when I recongize the anger brewing. However there are days when I just explode. I have smacked my son's hand and I tell myself that I will never hit him anywhere else, and I have justified the hand hitting because he is into something dangerous. I know that this is wrong, I know he see's my anger and there have been times when he will cry and say "maaaaaaaaaamaaaaaaaaaaa!" as if to say "I trust you, why are you acting out this way towards me?" is how I take his cry. I am riddled with guilt for days after the episode. The next time it comes up when I feel like I might lose it again, I keep talking inside my head saying "remember how you dwelled on this the last time and how bad you felt" but it doesn't always work.

_***In my efforts to post on this topic, I would like to hear from others who have found themselves in similar situations, I am not looking for people to lame baste me and convict me on what I have done are am doing to my child. Please respect this and perhaps others will feel more comfortable coming out about their own personal circumstances.
Thank you._


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## mamabear&babybear (Dec 20, 2004)

Count me in. Both my parents believe in spanking and in general parented with fear. I still have an extremely hard time expressing my emotions which makes it so difficult to teach my dc to express theirs.

When I get really angry I find myself not wanting to go calm myself, because I need somewhere for my rage to go. Currently, J is generally my target for venting.







: I haven't actually smacked her in a few years, but I am entirely too rough with her when I am angry. I recently grabbed her arm which threw her off balance and she hit her head on the wall.














:

The hardest times for me are when my dh is out of town or working long hours. Thankfully, neither happen very often. One thing that keeps me going is the hope that I haven't done permanent damage and there is time for me to become the parent I want to be.


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## Momma_Camille (Jan 11, 2007)

Similar here. My mom was a screamer & verbally abusive.

I often wonder if maybe people who grow up with parents who manage their emotions better learn those coping skills by watching their parents - without even knowing it, kwim?

I certainly didn't learn them by watching my mother! Or my dad who seemed to be just as scared of her as we were







: There were a couple of times I can remember him grabbing her physically off of me & dragging her into another room. But if it was verbal he just let it go. I think with no understanding that I'd have much rather she started hitting me so he'd make it stop.

I'm grateful for having read all these attachment parenting books because I want SO SO badly to break the cycle in my family. My mom is like her mom, etc. My mom's brothers & sisters are just like her. I have one brother who is parenting just like my mom did (and he hates her for it but he's doing it to his kids...







)

But it's so hard. Some days it is more of a struggle than others. Some days I want to just freak out & scream & scream at someone.

So this is so stupid sounding but I swear it's worked for me all summer (as my daughter gets closer & closer to being two - you know what that means!).

When she is driving me mad in my head I promise myself something. All summer it's been a snocone. (I have a shaved ice machine & syrups here at home). But it isn't always a snocone - it just has to be something you really really love - some great food or chocolate or a book or a bubble bath - whatever works for you.

So in my head I'm saying "If I don't scream/freak/throw anything, then I get a snocone when she goes to bed."

On really bad days I get one at naptime & bedtime.









Sometimes I go a couple of weeks without even having one & sometimes I have one a couple times a day several days in a row.









Anyway - so far that coping mechanism is helping me TONS. I need to think of something else for the winter though because this is Wyoming & I don't like to have a snocone when it's subzero temps outside!

Oh - and my DH works on the railroad - which means he's gone for 1-2 days and then home a day, repeat. I'm like a married single parent for the most part. It's hard to get relief sometimes.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama_2_Boy* 
I have smacked my son's hand and I tell myself that I will never hit him anywhere else, and I have justified the hand hitting because he is into something dangerous. I know that this is wrong, I know he see's my anger and there have been times when he will cry and say "maaaaaaaaaamaaaaaaaaaaa!" as if to say "I trust you, why are you acting out this way towards me?" is how I take his cry.

I've been in this situation. Except for me, I couldn't even justify it that he was into something dangerous. (he was hitting me. ha ha! What an excellent way to teach a child NOT to hit, right?) Another time he was scareing (sp) a dog we were dogsitting, and I just snapped.

I was not abused (I'm sorry if I don't fit in this thread). But my dad did physically and verbally abuse my mom, and us kids saw it at times. I've never really applied this to anything, but sometimes it makes me wonder exactly how it affected us.

Anyways, I mostly wanted to let you know that most people here wouldn't flame you for your post. I know for sure that there's no way I would


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## Mama_2_Boy (Jun 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deva33mommy* 
I've been in this situation. Except for me, I couldn't even justify it that he was into something dangerous. (he was hitting me. ha ha! What an excellent way to teach a child NOT to hit, right?) Another time he was scareing (sp) a dog we were dogsitting, and I just snapped.

I was not abused (I'm sorry if I don't fit in this thread). *But my dad did physically and verbally abuse my mom*, and us kids saw it at times. I've never really applied this to anything, but sometimes it makes me wonder exactly how it affected us.

Anyways, I mostly wanted to let you know that most people here wouldn't flame you for your post. I know for sure that there's no way I would









(Just so you know, this still qualifies as "abuse" to the children...) Thanks for sharing.


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## Momma_Camille (Jan 11, 2007)

I think you fit too! Any verbal abuse in a home leaves its mark on every member of the household!


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## ktbug (Jul 8, 2006)

couldn't read without posting

It's really, really hard to keep your wits about you and stay even-keeled when your little delight finds no greater joy on earth than to smack you on the head with a drum stick. The look on his face after I've raised my voice to him ...







: Seeing him react to me that way, like I've broken his heart, is enough deterrent right now.

I had a lot of yellers in my family, and a lot of emotional manipulators. One of the only things I can remember about my father's mother, who everyone assures me was sooo sweet and wonderful, was her pained scowl. She wore it almost constantly if she was around children. I have this fear that my son will remember me from his infancy as the lady with the pained scowl.

Actually, that's an exaggeration - most days are wonderful. My son amazes me and fills me with joy, even when he's taking a huge crap on the floor or trying to pull open the oven door while I'm cooking. I say OM a lot.


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## Mama_2_Boy (Jun 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamabear&babybear* 
Count me in. Both my parents believe in spanking and in general parented with fear. I still have an extremely hard time expressing my emotions which makes it so difficult to teach my dc to express theirs.

When I get really angry I find myself not wanting to go calm myself, because I need somewhere for my rage to go. Currently, J is generally my target for venting.







: I haven't actually smacked her in a few years, but I am entirely too rough with her when I am angry. I recently grabbed her arm which threw her off balance and she hit her head on the wall.














:

The hardest times for me are when my dh is out of town or working long hours. Thankfully, neither happen very often. One thing that keeps me going is the hope that I haven't done permanent damage and there is time for me to become the parent I want to be.

I found your response to be extremely touching, especially the "entirely too rough" part as I do this often too. I justify by saying to myself "well what I _really_ wanted to do was much much worse, so this is not so bad"...when in fact my DS has no clue as to what my own personal battle is. My DH works shift work so I have alot of one-on-one with DS too.

Where can we let the rage go? One time I thought I was going to snap and grabbed a pillow and screamed my bloody head off into it...DS was just looking at me, probably wondering what the heck was going on. I wish I could take it all back, all the nasty times, all the times I was a real grouch and meany to him, and yes I too try to look ahead to being the parent I wish I could become...


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## lindsaye3 (May 15, 2007)

I'm in too. I try very hard to not be my mother. But some days I feel just like her (minus the alcohol







). She was very detached from us. It is hard to explain, you never were validated, your feelings were never ok. And when she couldn't "deal" with us ... it was just ugly. They were spankers (but mild), but their words cut you like a knife. The words were the worst, and they teased as a way to show you how "dumb" you or your idea was. Even now I am uncomfortable with feelings or talking about my ideas or thoughts, right away I will be defensive. I don't spank, but once in a while I have heard the most horrible things come out of my mouth. Right now it is with my 6 year old. Recently, I said something that bothered me for days (and still does when I think of it). How do I forgive myself? I get so angry this horrible verbal vomit of words comes out. For some reason the elementary years are so hard for me. Babies and toddlers are easy and adorable to me, but elementary school age is hard. My ds is smart and funny and wonderful, but he gets on my nerves and it isn't his fault. It is a fault in me that I am working on. Sometimes I just feel so angry at this little 6 year old boy who wants my attention and I can't figure out why. I feel like I pick on him or scapegoat him for all the problems. Lately he is nervous, chewing on his fingers or shirt, and I know this is my fault.

Anyway, no flaming or bashing from me! I know how hard it is.


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## PhoenixMommaToTwo (Feb 22, 2006)

Count me in. I grew up with a lot of yelling and hitting from my older sister who practically raised us. My dh and I have anger issues and are looking for a different way to discipline, hence gd. We aren't succeeding very well though. A lot of it gets directed to my 4 year old dd who is VERY strong willed. I can totally relate to the whole being too rough, I find myself grabbing arms to put them in time out or to seperate them when they're fighting and they drop and all I can think of is "Oh my god, I'm going to dislocate their shoulders". We are working towards building a trusting, calm relationship with our children, but as we were both raised in anger, we're having a hard time letting it go.

I love that idea of promising yourself something at the end of the day. Kinda good motivation.


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## mamabear&babybear (Dec 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama_2_Boy* 
I justify by saying to myself "well what I _really_ wanted to do was much much worse, so this is not so bad"...when in fact my DS has no clue as to what my own personal battle is.

That is so true and something I think about often. Either way she still feels sad, hurt, scared and disconnected from me which is what I want to avoid in the first place.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama_2_Boy* 
(Just so you know, this still qualifies as "abuse" to the children...) Thanks for sharing.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momma_Camille* 
I think you fit too! Any verbal abuse in a home leaves its mark on every member of the household!

Wow...what a startling revelation. I have to digest this a bit.

Like the pp said, even though I've only hit ds a couple times, I have a tendency to revert to being too rough when I'm getting really angry. It doesn't help that I have space issues. He wanted me to read a book, and was putting it up in my face. I'd asked him to stop, he didn't, and I eventually grabbed the book and threw it across the room. Similar scenarios have happened a couple times.

Dp is appalled when I tell him that stuff. He never says much (other than trying to be helpful), but I can see it that he doesn't understand how anyone could react in that way.


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## Mama_2_Boy (Jun 18, 2007)

There has been one way of _coping_ that has helped me to prevent any rages (from me towards DS)...because I know the times I am most prone to them are when I am alone with him, when DH is working. I have alot of internal dialogue going on, and I remind myself:

Quote:

I am going to be alone with DS...now I have to think of all the things that could possibly go wrong, like dumping my coffee on the white carpet, throwing the roll of toilet paper in the bath, refusing to go for naps, going near something dangerous and not coming to me when I call him...any of these and many more could happen and I have to promise myself that when it happens, I will not allow that monster in me to surface...I will simply take a deep breath and keep repeating "I love you my little guy...I love you sooooooo much and I so want to protect you from any of the horrible things that have happened to me and I don't ever want you to be afraid of me, or feel fear from my actions"
If I am able to have this dialogue regularily and practice practice practice being self disciplined, this does help sometimes...


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## Mama_2_Boy (Jun 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deva33mommy* 
...he wanted me to read a book, and was putting it up in my face. I'd asked him to stop, he didn't, and I eventually grabbed the book and threw it across the room...

This reminded me of something that I had learned when I was in counciling (years ago for relationship issues) and the therapyst had reverted back to my up bringing and explained to me that my parents took my actions _personally_ as if the things I did were to intentionaly piss them off. I am guilty of doing this myself, when DS is insistent in wanting something NOW and I am not able to and he will constantly pester me, I take it personally and I know I shouldn't. Alot of the tension I feel towards DS is because his actions are reverting me back to my younger self and how helpless I felt back then as a small child. I can analyse all I want but in the immediate, it is the inner rage that I stuggle with and have to learn how to deal with before it takes over.


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## _betsy_ (Jun 29, 2004)

I think it's wonderful that you are trying to break the cycle and are looking for others to confide in to help you along the way. This parenting thing is hard work, even if we were all somehow able to come to it with a clean slate. But, we all have our pasts to deal with, and many times, how we were raised is the only childrearing we've ever seen first hand. It's hard to find another way when you only know one way. You're sure to mess up along the journey to where you want to be for your children.

I just wanted to say that I think it's wonderful you're looking for support and opening up and willing to share your struggles with others.


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## smeisnotapirate (Aug 24, 2007)

I love this idea!

My mother is an emotional manipulator and dad was a spanker. There was a lot of emotional neglect in my house growing up, a lot of anger, and a lot of lying (on my part) because my parents would punish me for everything that was even slightly "out of line." My mother still says things like "how could you do this to me?" about personal decisions I make (like how many cats I choose to have) and it makes me feel SOOOOOOO awful.







:

I don't have a child (yet), but I've found myself getting into those rages with my puppy. We're going through adolescence with her, and some days I just want to punch walls I'm SO mad. And now that I'm pregnant and starting to feel the mood swings? I just remind myself every day that I never want to see my puppy flinch from my hand again and don't want my child to ever know what I knew growing up.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

There is also support, wisdom, and btdt ideas in the "*Parenting and Rage*" thread: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ng+abuse+forum

And the *"ladies in waiting" for the abuse forum thread:*
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ng+abuse+forum

*Any adult survivors of childhood abuse out there?:*
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ng+abuse+forum

I agree, that parenting gently is harder without gentle models in our own childhood; and can see how this forum provides a different focus.

Pat


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momma_Camille* 
Similar here. My mom was a screamer & verbally abusive.

I often wonder if maybe people who grow up with parents who manage their emotions better learn those coping skills by watching their parents - without even knowing it, kwim? .

YES!!! I just read "Parenting From the Inside Out", which is about how our children are literally hard-wired by our reactions to them. So if you get pissed off and scream at your two year old one too many times, their brains actually form different synapses and don't develop as well as they could. It's a little more complicated than that, but I can't remember all of the parts that are affected.

I kind of wish I hadn't read it, because I feel even more pressure now. It was interesting though, because as I was reading it I was talking to my mom and sisters about it, and they kept saying, "Maybe you shouldn't read that right now, that'll just put a lot of pressure on you." Anyway, I think part of the reason they thought I shouldn't is because it's forced me to acknowledge that my mother was way, way too rough, and that's kind of a yucky thing to think about. I don't know if I feel comfortable calling her abusive. By today's standards she would be. In those days she wasn't. But it was still scary, and the worse part was that she was so unpredictable. In a lot of ways, she didn't "punish", especially not consistently. She just lashed out. And was so angry so often.

So I belong here too. Thanks for starting the thread. I frequently struggle with losing it. One thing that is very helpful is to arrange my life so that the stress doesn't get too much. At first I felt silly doing this, like going to the grocery store should not be that big of a deal. But now I've noticed that the calmer and more organized I can keep our lives, the more I can stay in control. And then, when unavoidable stress comes up, I'm less likely to lose it because I'm out of the habit.

I'm interested to hear other ideas!


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## todavia (Aug 11, 2006)

i don't know if my childhood homelife counts as abusive but my mom suffers from severe depression and was very intolerant of me as a child. my memory of her from that time mostly involves her locking herself in the bathroom and yelling at me to go away







we still have a very difficult relationship.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lindsaye3* 
For some reason the elementary years are so hard for me. Babies and toddlers are easy and adorable to me, but elementary school age is hard. My ds is smart and funny and wonderful, but he gets on my nerves and it isn't his fault. It is a fault in me that I am working on.

this is me to a T and i hate it. at the end of the day yesterday (after a long weekend basically alone with 2 kids) i cried and cried about these feelings and the dynamic between me and my son. i find myself getting so frustrated and angry - yelling, sending him to his room and basically dragging him when he refuses







i know this is not okay. i love him and we have some really great time together but overall i wish i could just relax and enjoy him more. i find so much of his behavior annoying and grating even though the rational part of myself knows he's just a kid with a lot of energy who wants to play and be silly.

after my minibreakdown, i started reading "liberated parents, liberated children" and this morning tried to implement some of those tools. it was actually good and i'm hoping to continue even though i know there will still be bumps in the road.


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## Mama_2_Boy (Jun 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *violetisadora* 
i don't know if my childhood homelife counts as abusive but my mom suffers from severe depression and was very intolerant of me as a child. my memory of her from that time mostly involves her locking herself in the bathroom and yelling at me to go away

...neglect...even though it may have been totally unintentional on her part..is classified as abuse. Can you share some of the tools that you learned in your reading?


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## momsadvice (Oct 9, 2007)

Sure, sounds like a great idea. It is always easier to talk with someone who has been there themselves than someone who is trying empathize with no history of their own.


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## hippymomma69 (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama_2_Boy* 
Alot of the tension I feel towards DS is because his actions are reverting me back to my younger self and how helpless I felt back then as a small child.


I see so much of myself in all of your posts....







:

I struggle too every day and every day it seems like I yell at DD or sometimes do the mommy arm grab....sometimes I get so angry I just WANT to see her cry - that's the child in me coming out!

I love the LIberated Parents/Liberated Child book - one thing I learned is to let my anger out sooner so I don't reach the explosion point (not to try to repress it) - well I learned that intellectually but still need to implement it....it's hard for me to talk about my anger in a non-shaming way....I need to just learn to say "I"m angry!" without any blame or shame.










thanks for posting....
peace,
robyn


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## Mama_2_Boy (Jun 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hippymomma69* 
I love the LIberated Parents/Liberated Child book - one thing I learned is to let my anger out sooner so I don't reach the explosion point (not to try to repress it) - well I learned that intellectually but still need to implement it....

This book was mentioned by another poster in this thread...is this the book of choice for mama's like ourselves? Perhaps I will pick this one up. I would like to hear more about it and what it address'.


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## todavia (Aug 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama_2_Boy* 
Can you share some of the tools that you learned in your reading?

the parts that i read last night were basically the authors interpretations/examples from a parenting group led by dr haim ginott (between parent and child). there's a lot of validating feelings, using descriptive language instead of praise and letting go of parental control to allow for children's autonomy.

i tend to be a bit of a control freak and get really frustrated with ds when i'm wanting him to do something in a certain way/at a certain pace. once i start giving orders - things only go downhill and usually end up with me yelling and him crying. mornings can be really ugly (me: Come on, come ON! hurry up. get dressed! what are you doing? let's go. stop WHINING! what are you DOING? you forgot how to put your socks on?! grrr). not a good way for either of us to start the day.

so this morning i put his clothes on the couch but didn't tell him to get dressed. i left his lunch in the refrigerator and his bookbag on the hook. he knows that we usually leave at 8 and at 7:45 kind of looked at me like "well? aren't you going to tell me to get dressed?" i didn't say anything. "i'll get dressed now" he said and started taking off his pajamas. well, without my pushing, it took him a good ten minutes to get dressed because he kept stopping to ask me questions or kiss the baby or whatever. normally, this would drive me crazy ("Just do one thing at a time! Now is not the time for ____!) but i just sat on the couch and waited. i told myself, "if he's late, he's late. the school/teacher will deal with consequences of that. i am not in a hurry and don't need create conflict for no reason "

he also does this thing where he asks for permission to use the bathroom and won't go until i say "Go" which usually comes out as "JUST GO!!! - it drives me crazy! so today, he raised his finger (like they do at school) and i said "i know that at school you have to ask permission to go to the bathroom but home is different from school so just listen to your body and you decide when you have to go" and i walked away. then instead of getting frustrated about him refusing to wipe himself i said "i know it's a challenge to wipe yourself. you'll do it when you're ready". and i didn't even try to do anything to his bed-head hair - which he hates and always resists.

on the way to school, i resisted the urge to say "great job this morning" and just said "it feels really good to have a morning with no yelling and sadness". he didn't say anything but kind of skipped a little and started talking about who he was going to play with at school.

mostly i just tried to let go of trying to control the morning routine and let him do things on his own. revolutionary, huh? i have to say i felt a like a robot saying a lot of those things - it's really just not my style. i've always worried that gentle discipline = a kid that walk all over you but i'm trying to move away from that. either way, what i've been doing isn't working so it's time to really try a new approach. i'm hoping it becomes more natural with practice.


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## Mama_2_Boy (Jun 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *violetisadora* 
...mostly i just tried to let go of trying to control the morning routine and let him do things on his own. revolutionary, huh? i have to say i felt a like a robot saying a lot of those things - it's really just not my style. i've always worried that gentle discipline = a kid that walk all over you but i'm trying to move away from that. either way, what i've been doing isn't working so it's time to really try a new approach. i'm hoping it becomes more natural with practice....

Sounds like you are feeling some "room to breath" from this approach, good for you! I know what you mean about the 'control' issue, for me that's all it's about and that is what causes me to lose it, is when I think I no longer have control, which is a means to a very sad end.


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## Devaskyla (Oct 5, 2003)

Count me in too. I've been trying to do gd since ds1 started needing discipline/boundaries. I read here for awhile and/or read books on gd...I think I've read most of them at this point. And I'll be, mostly, the parent I want to be, for a few hours, a few days. Most of a week or 2. But then I don't see anything changing or I get stressed or depressed, and I'm back to being...my mother. I don't think I'm as bad as her, though. I hope.

Honestly, I never realized how badly I was treated by my parents, it was so 'normal' until I was an adult. I thought somehow I deserved the lack of respect, consideration and empathy. My first inclination that I was way too used to being walked all over was when I was 17, living with a friend, and an aquaintance pointed out to me how badly my friend treated me. I had never noticed, because she was nowhere near as bad as my parents. Even now, my h gets mad about how my mom treats me and the kids and I just...don't notice because I'm so used to it.

I don't want my kids to grow up like that. I want them to notice when people are treating them like crap and be able to stand up for themselves. It's *so* hard to not yell, though. And h has a horrible problem of taking everything the kids, especially ds1, does personally, even when he was a tiny newborn. He's a yeller and a namecaller (his mother is/was...well, a UA violation is the nicest thing I can say, his father wasn't around much and both of them stole from him).

Both my boys are extremely energetic and ds1 is high needs. And I'm an introvert who has frequesnt bouts of depression where I want nothing to do with anyone. Yet another thing to feel guilty about.


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## hippymomma69 (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama_2_Boy* 
This book was mentioned by another poster in this thread...is this the book of choice for mama's like ourselves? Perhaps I will pick this one up. I would like to hear more about it and what it address'.

It's basically a long extended example of how to apply some of Ginott's work....they have a specific chapter on anger that I found helpful...but I do have some trouble applying what they suggest since my DD is basically non-verbal.

It's an old book but it really has lots of practical examples that I find helpful - it's hard for me to put theory into practice and I need to see practical examples....

violetisadora - what a GREAT story! thanks for sharing....
peace,
robyn


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Thich Nhat Hanh's book "*Peace Is Every Step*" helped me to have perspective about the influence of my upbringing without a sense of hopelessness to changing the patterns that I grew up with. It really helped me to put my (similar) past into perspective and helped me to feel empowered to live in the moment rather than dwelling in the past. http://www.amazon.com/Peace-Every-St.../dp/0553351397 It changed my life.

The book helped bring peace to my soul and give me tools to.... PAUSE.....BREATHE......consider my reaction in the heat of the moment, BEFORE reacting automatically and viscerally. He has many books; but "*Peace is Every Step*" really empowered me to see my explosive reactions as a *learned* coping mechanism that could be *unlearned*. And it offered methods of identifying my underlying feelings and needs to help me take care of my anger (smoldering since childhood).

He has a new book called "*ANGER*". I only just started it. And it too is powerful and comforting to increasing my awareness, understanding and caretaking (compassion toward mySelf) of my emotional angst at myself for not being as calm (internally) as I wish I were and strive to be. http://www.amazon.com/Anger-Thich-Nh...336562-8587237 He talks about embracing your anger as messages about your values and priorities, and "taking care of your needs like a crying baby". That anger is a message of unmet needs. And recognizing and honoring those values as important in my life. Taking care of those needs, like we care for the needs of the young, is important. I highly recommend both.

Also, this thread about challenging children has helped many of us: "My Challenge, My Love": http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=328627

Connection Parenting by Pam Leo is fascinating about identifying underlying needs and seeking mutually agreeable solutions. It has a lot of tools for conflict resolution. Naomi Aldort's book Raising Our Children, Raising Ourselves discusses validation of our needs and our children's needs. Oh, the Center for Non-violent Communication has an article about the steps to turning anger into compassion. Here it is: http://www.naturalchild.org/marshall...ten_steps.html The Secret Life of Bees is a fictional story about learning to mother yourself and giving yourself the unconditional acceptance that you yearn for.

I found it helps to supplement with Magnesium, which is often associated with aggressive moodiness and high stress when depleted, especially around PMS. Most Americans have insufficient magnesium in their diet, especially pregnant and nursing mamas. Same with essential fatty acids. I just read a study about aggression associated with lack of essential fatty acids. Apparently stress depletes both Magnesium and EFAs, and causes less ability to create serotonin, or something like that.

I hope these help you all find a path to peace. Personal counseling helped me too.

Pat


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## Danaoc (Jul 11, 2005)

Mamas, I am so touched by all your posts - it is inspiring to see such amazing women seek out awareness and support. I get very inspired by that and think of you (as a collective group) when I go about my day as a parent.

I feel like I grew up with a Devil Mom - she would get a flashing rage in her eyes before she came after me, which luckily was only 5-10 times, but boy watch out when she did! And my friends & everyone else thought she was so nice! My Dad played complete victim & still does.

So I had the tendencies to lash out and did respond physically to my ds when he was around 2 (swats on the butt, not crazy rage). I had a lot of internal nasty crap to deal with and took a lot out on my dh too. We both got in a vicious cycle of blaming each other for our misery and would have headed towards divorce.

The only thing that saved me was the Landmark Forum (landmarkeducation.com). It totally transformed my life 100%. It was the ONLY thing that showed me I am in complete control of my life. Immediately after the Forum, I put in months of research and education into my own issues of communication, self-awareness, self-empathy, and self-empowerment. And then the beautiful effect from it all was transforming myself as a parent too.

It was so hard to admit to my responsibilities and to come to terms with a painful childhood. Most of the times, my own painful childhood was enough to motivate me to give a better childhood to my ds, but I just didn't know how to do it. I'm grateful that now I do. And I'm especially grateful that there are other mama's out there to support each other through all of it. Thank you all for your courage in this thread.


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## harmonymama (Feb 4, 2005)

I have spanked a couple of times recently after months of not, and years of off-again, on-again deciding not to spank, and then changing my mind, feeling like all the folks who say look at all the spoiled kids, its because nobody spanks anymore. I'm not advocating this opinion by any means, I'm just being honest about a tape that plays in my head...









My DS is very bright and strong-willed and his having trouble in school and in life, because he is very oppositional. Sometimes I feel that I just have to do something to "knock sense into him"- horrible phrase I know!

This time I spanked, and then DS pushed his friend at school the next day







! I know in my heart there is a connection...

I've committed to not spanking before, and it hasn't worked, so I am trying to admit I have a problem, seek help, and make a plan, so that I will NEVER act on that impulse again!

Right now my plan, is to march straight to my bedroom and lock the door, just long enough to breath and remind myself of this commitment, and go back to respond, not react. I think I will also use some other strategies, like nutrition and stress-management for myself, and staying organized so I don't get too stressed out. I will also probably do some loss of privileges (I know not big on this board, but at this point I need a consistent, nonviolent logical consequence for DS. Words don't do it for him, and he has to learn to follow instructions).

*I'm looking for support and affirmation only. Supportive ideas are great, but mostly I just need a place to admit to others that I've screwed up, and that I need help to make sure in truly never happens again. thanks.


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## mamabear&babybear (Dec 20, 2004)

A few minutes ago I was watching my youngest get really frustrated because she wanted to let go of the stool she was using to help her stand and chase after her sister into the living room. It got me thinking. In the past 3 weeks my sweet baby has gone from sitting, to army crawling, to hands and knees crawling, to climbing the stairs, to pulling up on furniture and is now working on cruising around holding on to furniture.







: I do have a point I promise.







I realized that I have been trying to go from sitting to running without learning all the things in between. So I am going to try and break down my goals into mini-baby steps. I have decided to take one of J's behaviors that is a trigger for me and teach myself to react differently. The trigger is her peeing on the floor instead of in the potty (this after she was using the potty by herself every time for over a month). Anyway, I'm going to take an idea from Easy to Love, Difficult to discipline. The idea is to tell yourself, "I'm angry and that's okay" and "This moment is as it is and it's okay". If I can do that not everytime I feel angry just everytime she pees on the floor, I think I can slowly teach myself to react that way to all of my triggers. We'll see how it goes.

On another note, I just talked to my dad on the phone and told him that she peed on the floor again. His reaction was to say "I think I would have to smack her on the butt but this is your chance to be the parent."







: On one hand I'm glad he realizes that I parent my children my way on the other hand I don't like being told to smack my child on the butt. Of course, 5 minutes after the call ended I thought of what I wanted to say so I thought I would tell you all. I don't want to teach her that when she makes a mistake or has an accident then someone bigger and stronger than her hurts her for it. I don't want her to learn that my love is conditional and that she needs to pee in the potty if she wants to be loved. My goal is to teach her to put her pee in the potty, but that whether she does or not I love her to pieces. Okay gotta get these girls down for a nap.

Thanks for starting this thread.


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## Mama_2_Boy (Jun 18, 2007)

What I can relate to the most in your post is:

Quote:

I've committed to not spanking before, and it hasn't worked, so I am trying to admit I have a problem, seek help, and make a plan, so that I will NEVER act on that impulse again!
and here...

Quote:

*I'm looking for support and affirmation only. Supportive ideas are great, but mostly I just need a place to admit to others that I've screwed up, and that I need help to make sure in truly never happens again. thanks.
because right now I am finding that what is helping me the most is to continue to talk about it. I find that speaking about it really keeps it at the front line and keeps me committed to trying to make a difference. I do support you whole heartedly. I know all to well the place you are in and I think we all have the power to make it over to the "other side" so to speak.


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## sasntappy (Jun 24, 2005)

I've had a terrible day today--the culmination of a progressively deteriorating month. I tend to be a screamer and can be "too rough" also. I was committed to no spanking and then resorted to them only to find (duh!) that it just makes matters worse. I remember being screamed at and spanked at least daily by both my mom and my grandmother because i just don't back down. I never felt wounded or traumatized by it as a child. My sister, who never fought back and never got spanked or screamed at, but witnessed it regularly reports being much more traumatized by it than me. I love her dearly, but even as a child remember being mad at her for not being tougher. She battles with depression and I battle with rage. I think we just focus anger in different directions. What I want is to NOT HAVE THE ANGER! Even when I feel my blood starting to boil I am thinking "this is ridiculous! completely out of proportion to the situation" but other than just locking myself away and neglecting my kids I don't know what to do about it. I hate to see them looking scared or hurt. And we have such a good time most of the time... For me I know a lot of it is hormonal. PMS is my enemy and I'm 3 months post partem right now. I've written down every book title mentioned so far and am looking forward to reading them and have favorited this thread.


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## lindsaye3 (May 15, 2007)

nak

Thank you for this thread. No time to type but I read so many good responses. I think it is good to talk about this. It helps me to read what others have written.

Will get liberated book, currently reading playful parent and it has helped. did not get mad today at the little stuff, feeling hopeful for first time in a while.


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## Momma_Camille (Jan 11, 2007)

Posting on this thread & then thinking about all the things I read - made a big difference for me today. Maybe just knowing I have a place to come spill it out when I want to will be helpful!

violetisadora - I was thinking about your control post today. It helped me a lot!

Of course, I also had a conversation with my mother today. Sigh. After I got off I looked at the phone & said "You are supportive as a rock."







:

Luckily she's a dang good grandma. We'll see how it goes as DD gets older.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momma_Camille* 
Of course, I also had a conversation with my mother today. Sigh. After I got off I looked at the phone & said "You are supportive as a rock."







:

Luckily she's a dang good grandma. We'll see how it goes as DD gets older.

You know, this is something I think about a lot (my mother) and maybe it's an appropriate part of this discussion, too.

It's been really important for me to forgive my mother of her parenting mistakes. I've noticed the more I can do that, the more I can forgive myself and approach my anger issues from a calm, reflective perspective.

But part of this also includes wanting more information from her. I have tried to delicately bring up the subject, to get a little more background about how she was feeling when things got violent, but I also don't want to hurt her feelings and cause her any pain.

Anyone successfully done this with their parents?


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## harmonymama (Feb 4, 2005)

Wow, this thread is like a gift from God right now. Thanks all you wonderful mamas. We are in this nonviolent journey together.

Day 1 of beautiful, positive gentle discipline. I taught the boys to rake the yard, stack mats, and they helped me cook. DH arrived home after the previously filthy boys got out of a perfectly lovely bath! And we were all in a good mood. No yelling, nada, a few calm loss of privileges moments, but thats it! This is on top of me feeling pretty sick today. So I'm kinda proud of myself, but mostly I am thanking God with my whole heart, because I know I cannot do GD without grace.


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## swampangel (Feb 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sasntappy* 
I've had a terrible day today--the culmination of a progressively deteriorating month. I tend to be a screamer and can be "too rough" also. I was committed to no spanking and then resorted to them only to find (duh!) that it just makes matters worse. I remember being screamed at and spanked at least daily by both my mom and my grandmother because i just don't back down. I never felt wounded or traumatized by it as a child. My sister, who never fought back and never got spanked or screamed at, but witnessed it regularly reports being much more traumatized by it than me. I love her dearly, but even as a child remember being mad at her for not being tougher. She battles with depression and I battle with rage. I think we just focus anger in different directions. What I want is to NOT HAVE THE ANGER! Even when I feel my blood starting to boil I am thinking "this is ridiculous! completely out of proportion to the situation" but other than just locking myself away and neglecting my kids I don't know what to do about it. I hate to see them looking scared or hurt. And we have such a good time most of the time... For me I know a lot of it is hormonal. PMS is my enemy and I'm 3 months post partem right now. I've written down every book title mentioned so far and am looking forward to reading them and have favorited this thread.


I'm sorry your day was so trying.









I had a thought when reading your post...yes, it is true that perhaps you and your sister focus anger in different directions. But I also think that if your big emotions as a kid had been validated and worked with by the adults in your life rather than responded to with spankings, you might not have that intense rage coming up now.

When we become parents, that wounded child within us becomes much more alive and the memories more visceral. I have absolutely found that to be true for me. I think feeling angry and inpatient is really normal for parents, but when it hits that rage point (and it's clear that it doesn't fit the situation) I think those are the feelings that a child would have had had it been safe to. Does that make sense?

For me, many aspects of my childhood would have brought about real rage from a child. But in order to survive, I connected to my mother which meant stuffing all that rage. That's what children do...they must connect and attach with their parents in order to survive...even if they're parents are neglectful or abusive. Otherwise, a child won't make it alone. There's no choice.

I love this thread and I think supporting each other as we work through this stuff is so healing and helpful. Just knowing others struggle makes me feel much less alone.


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## swampangel (Feb 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *violetisadora* 
i don't know if my childhood homelife counts as abusive but my mom suffers from severe depression and was very intolerant of me as a child. my memory of her from that time mostly involves her locking herself in the bathroom and yelling at me to go away







we still have a very difficult relationship.

this is me to a T and i hate it. at the end of the day yesterday (after a long weekend basically alone with 2 kids) i cried and cried about these feelings and the dynamic between me and my son. i find myself getting so frustrated and angry - yelling, sending him to his room and basically dragging him when he refuses







i know this is not okay. i love him and we have some really great time together but overall i wish i could just relax and enjoy him more. i find so much of his behavior annoying and grating even though the rational part of myself knows he's just a kid with a lot of energy who wants to play and be silly.

after my minibreakdown, i started reading "liberated parents, liberated children" and this morning tried to implement some of those tools. it was actually good and i'm hoping to continue even though i know there will still be bumps in the road.

I feel like I could have written this. My mother is severely mentally ill and has been since it's onset in her early 20s. My father died when I was very young but was an alcoholic...I adored him but he was not very reliable. I've never known anything other than the mood rollercoaster that my mother was constantly on. Treatment never worked for her because her illness was/is so insidious and she is often extremely paranoid and psychotic. Needless to say, it wasn't a healthy environment for a child.

I've done a lot of therapy in my adult life and it's never been as helpful and transformative as it has been since I've become a mother. So it helps me immensely to be able to bring these issues and feelings into therapy and really work on my own stuff...it's really not about our kids. It's about us and what has been ruffled up as a result of having these children. It's so profound, I think , the way this can bring up our stuff so poignantly.

Anyway, let's keep sharing. I love the tips. Mine for right now would be to get into therapy with a good therapist if you can. Even if you can't go every week, going every other can be enough to process the stuff and work through it.


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## cutekid (Aug 5, 2004)

I was abused as a child. The spankings I got weren't so bad it was the people in my life who thought it best to "teach" me a lesson. I was an out going, opinionated child. (Still am an adult). My mom spanked, my uncle beat, my granny beat me. I was just "too undisciplined" I was hit so hard by a teachers paddle once I had bruises on my butt.
It has taken years of conseling for me to be functional again. I was a super depressed teen, and my mom was constantly accusing me of drug use. I rarely engaged in doing drugs or alcohol as a teen..but still.
As a parent I have a very tough time dealing with my DS sometimes. A lot of gets me when I reflect isn't how I was taught to behave but the expectation by people who beat me as a kid. I expect him to be something I was told I had to be in order to get the beatings to stop.
In reflecting on my parental goals I want my DS to be an out going citizens. Someone with a moral compass who does right. I want him to question authority, while at the same obeying the rules that govern life. Yes, I do want him to question my motives as he gets older. I expect him to be self preserving.

I could go on and on..and I am happy I have found this thread. Honestly, most days I would rather hit my son (which rarely happens..like once every 6 months when I am tired) than deal with what's going on at the moment. I am a SAHM and wish sometimes I worked so I wouldn't have to deal with it all.
I have found that remaining positive helps. Remembering my son isn't "bad" or even his behavior. Semantics play a huge roll in fooling my mind. LOL. However, it helps me come up with solutions to continue guiding him.

that's all for now


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## Mama_2_Boy (Jun 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sasntappy* 
....What I want is to NOT HAVE THE ANGER! Even when I feel my blood starting to boil I am thinking "this is ridiculous! completely out of proportion to the situation" but other than just locking myself away and neglecting my kids I don't know what to do about it......

I can completley relate to these kinds of emotions. I had been in relationship counciling years ago and I was taught something about rage that was enlightening for myself. I was told that my rage was in fact a side effect to a much deeper emotion...it would either stem from pain (either physical or emotional) or fear. With my child, my rage comes from fear. Fear from what? I know my fear is about loosing control of what is going on in the immediate circumstance. And the reason I fear loosing control is because I learned from my father that loosing control = being weak....or so he thought. I have to try to remember that when I feel that emotion (and for me it comes from my stomach) that I'm afraid and sometimes I say it out loud...when I think I am about to snap, I just say those words "I am afraid". I don't know where the road will end with my own journey but I do know that along the way that alot of self talking is helping.


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## Mama_2_Boy (Jun 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah* 
...But part of this also includes wanting more information from her. I have tried to delicately bring up the subject, to get a little more background about how she was feeling when things got violent, but I also don't want to hurt her feelings and cause her any pain.

Anyone successfully done this with their parents?

I attempted to converse with my mother - I wouldn't say successfully. My mum looks after my son sometimes and she is incredible with him. However there is this one thing she does that drives me nutts







: When DS is acting out, she threatens to leave. She tells him "well fine, if that's how you are going to behave, then I am going to leave". When I hear this, I go rhealing into my younger years and remember all the pain and sorrow those words caused me and how utterly frightened I felt when she spoke those to me. I have told her this and how unhappy those statements made me feel. I have asked her "is this what you want? Do you want him to be afraid? What you are doing is trying to control him by instilling fear into him" She doesn't really say much and she hasn't stopped doing it either. I think somethings are difficult to change in others because they have to see the mistake themselves. Thankfully, so far I see that my son has not reacted to her saying those things


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## captain crunchy (Mar 29, 2005)

Just jumping in to offer support. I was abused as a child and it was hard to admit that to myself, even though it is true. I was verbally, emotionally, and physically (not sexually that I know of) abused. I guess it is true that "admitting it is the first step" because I lived in denial about it until my early 20's.

I was a gifted, social, curious, sensitive child and unfortunately that was labeled "too smart for my own good", "show off", "difficult", "dramatic" child. My mom was a single mama of four children with her own childhood issues and not a lot of coping mechanisms. Couple that with a strict Irish Catholic upbringing and the stress of caring financially/emotionally/legally/physically for herself and children spelled disaster for a child that was any less than compliant.

I was verbally abused, screamed at, yelled at, shamed, manipulated, and beat with wooden spoons, wire hangers, brushes, hands. I got the worst of it because of all my siblings I was the one who questioned the most, who was "stubborn", "defiant", and incidentally, the one most like my mother in basic personality traits ---- I believe that abusing me was a form of self loathing for my mom. That is just my armchair analysis but it makes sense to me. Maybe she could yell or beat out of me whatever made her unlovable to her father as a child. Her dad was apparently pretty rough to live with on a lot of levels (he died before I was born).

My childhood abuse did a lot of damage to me and to this day I have emotional reactions to things that others may not if they were raised differently. During my teens I was depressed, sullen, suicidal, rebellious, acted out in many ways. In my late teens I was in abusive relationships (more emotional not physical), had a low self esteem, abused drugs, ruined friendships, acted inappropriately in stressful situations, was verbally abusive.... oh the list goes on...

When I finally admitted to myself (around 21) that I had been abused... that abuse is a tricky thing because my mom was wonderful in a lot of ways too (which caused a lot of conflicting feelings and still does from time to time)... I began to work on myself.

Working on myself was the hardest and also the most rewarding thing in the world. I had to take a long hard look at who I was and I had to chisel away at and break through years and years of limiting beliefs, of negative labels, of manipulation, of negative self talk placed on me that I eventually had adopted to get to the "real" me. I was buried under so many labels that had been reinforced and that I had adopted. I had to come out under the heavy, heavy weight of self hatred and anger at my parents, the world, God, anyone and anything... I was just angry.

The pp was right though. After I chiseled away at all the anger, what was left was a little girl in a woman's body who was in so much pain. So much pain. I had to find a way to "re-raise" the little girl within me. To take her and mother her, and tell her all the things I never heard. I had to learn to show her love, and she needed to learn to allow herself to be loved. I replaced my self talk, I defined boundaries, I began doing things I loved, I began claiming time for myself without guilt. I began replacing negative words with positive words -- I am not stubborn, I am strong-willed and sure of my beliefs. I am not defiant, I think outside of the box... I am not a mistake, I am meant to be here and I am made of the same matter as the stars in the sky and the majestic mountains. I am a child of God (your mileage may vary based on personal belief system







) ...and I have a right to be here and a right to be happy.

Around this time I confronted my mom. We have always had an unhealthy sort of codependent relationship. We could be the best of friends one minute, then the next minute she could be screaming abuses at me over a tiny arguement. It was insane, and it was also a cycle and relationship that I was contributing to as well. So while I could "blame" her for her abuse in the past, I also had to take some responsibility as an adult in allowing a cycle to continue. Wow, we had some big, big arguements around that time. It was nuts, but it was needed I think. We had to hash everything out....

Also beneath the anger, hurt, pain, blame, rage of my childhood -- I had to learn to forgive. Not for my mom, for me. I had to learn that forgiveness has nothing at all to do with the person you are forgiving -- forgiveness for me meant that I was not going to continue to live in a prison of pain, anger, rage, blame. I was carrying around this huge burden of hate, both for my mom and for _myself_, and I had to let that go. I found a way to see my mom as a little girl in pain herself in a 60 year old body. I learned to really listen to her -- in subjects not even pertaining to my childhood. When I actually heard her, I heard a person with so many fears, and pain, and hang-ups, and limiting beliefs and abuse from her own childhood that she is still in denial about.

It doesn't at all excuse what was done to me, let me make that clear. It doesn't make it okay. When I learned to view my mom in that light though, it helped soften the anger. It allowed me to reclaim my personal strength and know inside myself that I have come so far in my journey at twentysomething, that I can reach out to this person in so much pain and help *parent* her in a sense. My mom has come to some realizations of her own as well since I have been on this journey.

She has asked me for my forgiveness and I have given it to her. I never wanted an apology, though it was validating. I got to a place though, where I didn't need it -- but I think I did still need the acknowledgment that she did a lot of things that were effed up.

In a weird way my abusive childhood has helped shaped me in a most positive way. Let me be clear, no one deserves abuse and it is terrible. However, for me, this journey from crumpled, broken, worthless, abused little girl (how I felt not what I actually was) to strong, loving, confident, peaceful woman has been one of the most powerful life experiences I have ever had.

I am still on that journey though!

I have to do regular "maintenance" (for lack of a better word







) on my progress. I have to be accountable. I have to maintain my level of self care and not feel at all guilty about needing regular time (at least a half an hour a day) for ME. I meditate, I pray, I get enough sleep, I eat regular meals, I get enough water, I love myself, I affirm myself, I forgive myself, I value myself, I am gentle with myself when I stumble.

I am fortunate in that I chose to have dd at 28. I think to myself, had I given birth to her at 20 I can only imagine the cycle would have continued. Having dd has been so healing for my life in that I can't control the past but I can control how I act in the future -- just knowing that I am breaking the cycle with her -- her experience won't be ANYTHING like mine growing up, even if I do occasionally raise my voice or act snappy -- she is raised with unconditional love, safety, validation, respect ... and in a sense I am giving to another little girl what no one gave to my mom, what I didn't get, and what I had to give to myself.

DD won't have to work so hard and I am thankful for that. She will never wonder if she is loved or wanted and if she knows that, I am doing a lot right.

Having dd has also been healing for my relationship with my mother. Seeing my mom with dd is very surreal. My mom is so loving toward dd, so caring, so patient, so respectful --- one thing I am working on is the fact that I have emotional reactions to my mom relating to things that happened twenty five years ago. For example, she may say to dd -- "Oh honey, grandmom doesn't want you to do X, Y ..." and I will get immediately defensive and react in that way. I am still working on that!

I think it is one way my mom tries to *right* her *wrongs*, by being so good to dd. My dd loves her and I know she loves dd so very much.

Sometimes my mom will out of the blue say things that hit me to my core. Like we will be coloring with dd or something and out of the blue she will say something like " I really wish I could have done this with you more when you were little".

Again, it doesn't excuse what she did, but when I hear things like that through the way I approach the world now --- as a healed woman instead of a broken little girl, what I hear in those words are "I am sorry, I just didn't know how to mother"....

...and I remember that saying "Be Kind. Everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Tara, I teared up reading that. Thanks.

Pat


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## smeisnotapirate (Aug 24, 2007)

Beautiful, captain crunchy.









It's amazing to see yourself reflected so clearly and eloquently.


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## captain crunchy (Mar 29, 2005)

aww Pat thanks -- you've helped me in my journey too and I thank you for that


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## mamabear&babybear (Dec 20, 2004)

Wow, you are an amazing woman, captain crunchy!!


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## captain crunchy (Mar 29, 2005)

Thank you so much for your kind comments. We are all amazing women, just remember that


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## todavia (Aug 11, 2006)

thank you for that captain crunchy. beautiful post.

i am trying to get to where you are - to let go of anger and forgive - but i resist. as a kid, i dealt with feeling neglected by my mother by turning that sadness into anger and developing a shell of toughness to protect me. i have been in therapy for...well, forever and it definitely helps, but there's something inside me that can't/won't let it go yet.

i also think i have so much emotionally invested in breaking the cycle of bad parenting that when my son "acts up", "acts out" or doesn't listen - i take it really personally. like, "how dare you act this way! i'm trying to do everything right!". it's ridiculous, i know, but that's how i feel sometimes.

today was a great morning (no struggles) but yesterday was horrible and i did all the things i know i shouldn't do - minimizing feelings > reacting to behavior > punishing > yelling > arm grabbing - the whole bit







and he was screaming, spitting, cursing at me, punching the couch - it was horrible.

we talked about it later in the day and i said that i felt really sad about starting the day like that and ds asked me to tell him the story of what happened. i thought that was really interesting so i retold it from a more feelings-oriented perspective " i wanted you to try on your new pants but you really didn't want to and i didn't understand that and then you got a little frustrated and started whining. when i snapped at you to stop whining, you got even more frustrated so you started whipping your shirt at me. i told you i didn't like that and asked you to stop but you didn't listen to me and you kept doing it and then i got so angry about not feeling heard that i grabbed the shirt out of your hands...." i went through the whole saga like this and he was fascinated. he even asked me to tell him again. once we were done, i said "Let's both do our best to listen and respect each other so this doesn't happen tomorrow."

what do you all think about that? do you all apologize when you lose your temper? sometimes i do but i am also wary of taking 100% responsibility for these things because i worry that it will reinforce his less-than-ideal behavior.


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## Momma_Camille (Jan 11, 2007)

My DD is only almost 23 months but I always apologize if I yell & it upsets her. I have to use simpler terms than you do but I think it would have made an enormous difference in my childhood if my mother had ever come to me & said "I'm sorry I lost my cool with you. I shouldn't act like that." Because really she just always acted like I deserved it no matter what the "provocation" was. And my dad always acted like the most important part of my life was protecting my mother from all harm.







: Not a child's job!

But! lol I digress. Sometimes I do that....

I think it's great that you talked about it!


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## mamabear&babybear (Dec 20, 2004)

J likes to hear the rundown of what happened when we argue also. I think it really helps them process the whole thing. What I struggle with is that she likes to hear it over and over again. I struggle so much with this because it makes me feel like she is blaming/shaming me like my parents used to. It's sounds so ridiculous, and I didn't even realize that I feel that way until just now. Wow!!

Hmmm, is there a point at which I should ask her to stop rehashing it or do you all think it is important to discuss it as much as she wants or maybe needs to? I'm at a loss now.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Violetisadora, I always recap things with my two year old. He wants to hear the story of conflicts over and over, I think it helps him process it. Actually, I do this even more consciously since reading "Parenting From the Inside Out" because the author talks a lot about how hearing stories activates both sides of the brain and helps develop mindfulness. So I think it sounds like a great idea for you to rehash things! Maybe since your son is older, you could even draw cartoons or write stories together of what happened.


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

Is it too late to join this thread?







:


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## Momma_Camille (Jan 11, 2007)

Of course you can!

I'd say the more the merrier but given the topic that doesn't seem to fit. But you get the sentiment right?

The more of us there are to support each other, the stronger we are!


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## fatherof4sofar (Oct 12, 2007)

Hi. I'm new to the forums, and I'm a guy, so please tell me to butt out if y'all are uncomfortable with me joining you. My dad beat me. I don't think of it as abuse, but I don't want to be the kind of parent he was. I have trouble keeping my temper and I'm a lot stricter than my wife is, but I'm trying to mellow out without being too permissive. I hit my son once and I never will again. Ironically it was my father who ticked me off the most about it. He's a much better grandfather than he was a father.


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## Momma_Camille (Jan 11, 2007)

S'okay with me! We're all parents & people and we all have the same kind of struggles! Welcome


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## Devaskyla (Oct 5, 2003)

It's fine with me.

Today I had a really good day with ds2. We went out for a couple hours and then were home for a bit before ds1 & h came home. I actually felt like the kind of mother I want to be. Ds2 is so much easier than ds1 ever was. I kind of feel like we got the trial by fire with ds1 and maybe things would have been easier if he'd had a personality more like ds2.

I know that's no excuse for not being able to keep my cool, but he's just...really high needs, really energetic, incredibly impulsive and one of those people who just gets an idea in their heads and it's nearly impossible to get him to stop. He drives me up the wall sometimes and I try so hard to keep calm.

I think I'm slowly getting better, though. I'm trying to be more sympathetic when he gets upset, even though what he's getting upset about generally seems completely trivial and he usually has multiple things every day. My biggest triggers are when I'm tired and when I'm angry about other things going on.

I got some more parenting books from the library, including Easy to Love, Difficult to Discipline. I've been meaning to get it for awhile and this thread reminded me to finally get it.


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## swampangel (Feb 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fatherof4sofar* 
Hi. I'm new to the forums, and I'm a guy, so please tell me to butt out if y'all are uncomfortable with me joining you. My dad beat me. I don't think of it as abuse, but I don't want to be the kind of parent he was. I have trouble keeping my temper and I'm a lot stricter than my wife is, but I'm trying to mellow out without being too permissive. I hit my son once and I never will again. Ironically it was my father who ticked me off the most about it. He's a much better grandfather than he was a father.

Welcome!! Please join in...talking about this stuff here or irl is so helpful and healing.

I was going to chime in today and share that I had a pretty good one. I've been really struggling with old stuff since my oldest started school this year. It brought up so many memories for me in such a visceral way. Essentially, I've been having flashbacks which I've never had before...well, at least I didn't realize it before if I did have them. Thank god for therapy to help me work all of this out! (It's amazing...I've been in and out of therapy for about 18 years and I'm getting so much out of it at this point in my life! It's been great throughout the years, but this has been the time in my life of huge healing and growth...amazing what kids can do!







)

Anyway, I went to therapy today and it was so healing. Lots of tears and really sitting in the old, nasty feelings with no defenses in between me and the trauma. Really raw stuff...it's so hard to be there, but when I got home I felt so relieved and like a burden was lifted. I know it isn't the end...the journey continues and the trauma will resurface, but it helps to know that with each encounter with the pain, the pain does lessen. I learn new ways to cope and take care of myself and I process the pain further.

A lot of my recent stuff was triggered when my mom went off of her meds for the millionth time. This is nothing new, but the way I am responding is different each time as I do more work on healing. (btw, I'm essentially my mother's guardian now so this is stuff that I deal with closely and it gets very tricky). Anyway, I was able to actually call her tonight after not speaking to her since she went off the meds. I shared with her that when she goes off of them, I have to stay away because of her psychosis and I just can't be there for her when she's that unhealthy. It felt really liberating to just tell her how I felt but not expecting any change from her. She actually took it well...by that I mean she didn't freak out, she listened but I'm sure it won't change anything. But it was a big step to just honestly tell her why I've been out of touch for the last couple of weeks.

Anyway, sorry to ramble about it. It was a big day of healing and for that I am so grateful. I'm hoping to be more present with my boys...that's always my goal. And less reactive and more clear about what's really going on with me. I loved one of the pp's suggestions about imaging the worst that can possibly happen. I did that today and I think it helped.

I think I'm going to try very brief meditation throughout the day and see if that helps. Anyone else doing that? I'm imaging just watching my breath and trying to center and get present. We shall see...

Let's keep posting how our days are going and try to support each other in our efforts to not carry our past into the present with our kids.


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## Mama_2_Boy (Jun 18, 2007)

Great post Angel. I know what you mean about the meditation. There are moments throughout some days that I take for reflection and to try and ground myself. I thinks it great way to lift ourselves.

I just about had another bad episode last night when trying to get DS down for bed. If he is overtired, it's almost impossible to get him to lay still. He hops all over the bed laughing hysterically and refuses to settle down. When I am very tired and just ready to have a nervous break down, this is when my triggers happen. He started flailing his arms around and smaked me on the head. Then he was trying to grab onto my ear (something he does for comfort when trying to fall asleep) and he grabbed real hard and then yanked away pulling most of my hair out of my head with him. I yelled...OUCH!....he immediatly stopped moving and said "mama ? " as if to say "what's going on?" he settled down after that and I also realized that the frustration and anger that was welling up inside of my was immediatly released with that yell. I dont' know if this is a good idea though. I dont' know if he takes the yelling directed at him or not. He didn't appear to be upset by it, just mainly a little shocked by the volumn I think. He knows what ouch means though because he uses this word as well.


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

I was abused, as was my dh. It was the kind of abuse that some call "normal parenting" though. I am not sure that CPS would have been in either of our situations. But to me, that doesn't make it any less "abuse."

I knew it growing up, I would often threaten to call protective services on my mom. In fact, I think I even did call an abuse hotline one time and they laughed at me. I was very trapped. Most of my abuse was mental but my mom was a violent yeller and also did alot of uncontrolled spanking.

My dh was hit with a belt over and over and over. His parents were very mentally abusive as well. He does not see it as abuse, he sees it as "He was a bad kid and his parents did what they had to do."

Unfortunatly, we are at risk of repeating the pattern and I am commited to not doing that. I never had time to heal though, I had my ds at 21.

Captin Crunchy, I dont know how you had the courage to sit with your mom like that.

I have NO love for my parents in my heart and I have no desire to talk with them about it. Mostly because they do not see it as abuse. They think they were/are good parents.

Are there other ways to handle it?


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## smeisnotapirate (Aug 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
I have NO love for my parents in my heart and I have no desire to talk with them about it. Mostly because they do not see it as abuse. They think they were/are good parents.

Ditto, ditto, and ditto. My mom is a "tough-love" teacher and always maintains that everyone loves and respects her because she acts that way.







:

I'll be interested to see how to handle it too. I have to at some point tell my parents we're expecting, and I know that's when the sh1+ will hit the fan.


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

I still have a daily relationship with my mom. I have been avoiding their house for about a month because they got a new puppy and its totally annoying. Since then, I have been feeling better. I wonder if I need to not have very much contact with her? (But its hard because we are getting ready to have a baby and they are kind of free childcare)

I thought about writing her a letter that I do not plan on giving to her. Just a "get it all out" thing

I feel like I am "getting it all out" all the time when I loose my temper all the time. Thats no good.


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## CherryBomb (Feb 13, 2005)

Thanks for starting this thread.









I grew up being mentally, physcially, and sexually abused. I have a very hard time parenting my children. I have spanked before (and always regretted it immediately) but I haven't in a long time. But it's taken A LOT of willpower on my part. I still yell and get frustrated easily and that bothers me. I am going to see about getting back in with my therapist soon and see if that helps.


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## Diane B (Mar 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
He has a new book called "*ANGER*". I only just started it. And it too is powerful and comforting to increasing my awareness, understanding and caretaking (compassion toward mySelf) of my emotional angst at myself for not being as calm (internally) as I wish I were and strive to be. http://www.amazon.com/Anger-Thich-Nh...336562-8587237 He talks about embracing your anger as messages about your values and priorities, and "taking care of your needs like a crying baby". That anger is a message of unmet needs. And recognizing and honoring those values as important in my life. Taking care of those needs, like we care for the needs of the young, is important. I highly recommend both.
Pat

I also cannot recommend this book enough. I re-read it recently when I felt my anger was increasing again. My years of mindfulness practice have really helped me with these struggles, although I still fall down from time to time with my daughter. One thing that TNH talks about a lot as well is the process of reconciling with the presence of your parents in yourself, and coming to a place of forgiveness and acceptance, rather than hatred towards them. They are a part of us.

I shudder to think at the parent I might have been without a lot of therapy, and these wise and helpful teachings. Even now, I have absolutely no internal model for how to be a peaceful, patient, connected mom. I'm making it up every day! I would really encourage all of us who had difficult childhoods, for the sake of our precious children, to devote ourselves to healing the pain in ourselves so that we don't pass it on to our kids. Whatever this looks like for you - counseling, body work, journaling, support groups, spiritual practice - take the leap and get some help.

By the way, to the OP: I think this is a great thread, and the perfect forum. I found that the other forum you mentioned didn't actually focus much on how previous abuse affects present-day parenting challenges.


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

Our Bedtime battles came to a head last night and last night turned out *really really ugly.*
My ds didnt have a nap yesterday due to preK and basically, I cant get him a nap anymore at all because of this preK schedule. (He is starting to get comfortable with the kids in his class and I am conflicted about moving him to another center, plus this one is so close we can walk together and we ALL need excercise really bad.)

So I put him to bed before Daddy got home at around 7:30, because bedtime is sooooo much easier with only one parent. The kids tend to listen alot better and dont get out of bed so much.

I think he slept for a few and then woke up at 9 and started playing his usual bedtime game. "I _WONT_ GO TO BED WITHOUT ________________." (food, drink, you, glow stick, you name it...) This is his statment EVERY NIGHT for the last MONTH.

It makes my blood boil when he talks too me like that but I try to be patient. I ushered him back into his room and explained that he needed to stay on his bed. He could choose not to sleep, or to sleep, or to read or play quietly. This is not working latley. I am not going to lay down with him because I only have like an hour to spend with dh and thats where my priority is. (My ds just talks to me and doesnt stop)

We tried placing him in our bed, and telling him we would be in in a few minutes....kept getting up.

Anyways, eventually after 50 billion times of gently taking him back to bed, I ended up threatening him with a spanking. (I do this all the time, hoping he wont get out of bed, but then when he does, I feellike i have to be accountable to what I said I would do_ so I spanked him lightly on the butt and told him to stay in bed.









Then he started throwing a fit when I would take him back into bed and was hysterical and he woke up his little sister.

My dh ended up spanking him like 6 times (each time for a seperate time of him getting out of bed) before I said "Its not working, he's not going to stop.)

So both the 22 month old and the 4 year old are throwing fits and my head is just spinning. Why doesnt GD work for me? Why dont they just go to bed? They are sooooo tired, neither of them really napped, why dont they just SLEEP?

It was the worst night ever. And alot of it was my fault because I could not keep my cool.

I hate bedtime. I cannot find a way to make it runsmoothly. We have a routine that has been in effect for years and it doesnt work!!!!!

I just dont want to be a mom after 9:00 PM and thats not a good attitude to have. But I dont get any other breaks than that so I allow myself to be a *little* selfish, I should be allowed to have some me time, right? (Obviously, not at the expense of the kids like that though) I guess I am not going to be able to do the self care I so desperatly need because I have to lie down with my kids at night and that makes me mad. I do not want to. It makes me feel resentful.

I feel so bad about these feelings. Like I shouldnt be having them.

Thanks for letting me vent.

PS-The more ashamed I feel about events that unfold unpleasently, the more they happen! How to break that cycle?!?!?! Its like a merry-go-round!


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## todavia (Aug 11, 2006)

wecome to all the new people...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momma_Camille* 
My DD is only almost 23 months but I always apologize if I yell & it upsets her. I have to use simpler terms than you do but I think it would have made an enormous difference in my childhood if my mother had ever come to me & said "I'm sorry I lost my cool with you. I shouldn't act like that." Because really she just always acted like I deserved it no matter what the "provocation" was. And my dad always acted like the most important part of my life was protecting my mother from all harm.







: Not a child's job!

i think you're right and i'm gonna have to find a way to come to terms with saying "i'm sorry". that's a tough one for me...

what you said about your dad also really hits home for me because a few years ago my dad actually told me "when your mom and i split up, i knew i should have tried for full custody because she was not capable of being a good mom but i felt so guilty about leaving and i worried that if i took you away too that she might kill herself"







: thanks, dad.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamabear&babybear* 
J likes to hear the rundown of what happened when we argue also. I think it really helps them process the whole thing. What I struggle with is that she likes to hear it over and over again. I struggle so much with this because it makes me feel like she is blaming/shaming me like my parents used to. It's sounds so ridiculous, and I didn't even realize that I feel that way until just now. Wow!!

Hmmm, is there a point at which I should ask her to stop rehashing it or do you all think it is important to discuss it as much as she wants or maybe needs to? I'm at a loss now.

i can totally relate to what you're saying here. "oh you want me to tell you AGAIN about how much of a b*%ch i was this morning? okay honey"







. i would probably draw the line after 3 times and then try to move on to something else. kids are all about repitition though so maybe it's just like anything else and they need to hear the same thing 50,000 times before it sinks in.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah* 
Violetisadora, I always recap things with my two year old. He wants to hear the story of conflicts over and over, I think it helps him process it. Actually, I do this even more consciously since reading "Parenting From the Inside Out" because the author talks a lot about how hearing stories activates both sides of the brain and helps develop mindfulness. So I think it sounds like a great idea for you to rehash things! Maybe since your son is older, you could even draw cartoons or write stories together of what happened.

thanks for the suggestion! i'l have to try to look for that book as well.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Devaskyla* 
I'm trying to be more sympathetic when he gets upset, even though what he's getting upset about generally seems completely trivial and he usually has multiple things every day. My biggest triggers are when I'm tired and when I'm angry about other things going on.

me too. also trying to get out of the house is always a tough one...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *swampangel* 
I was going to chime in today and share that I had a pretty good one. I've been really struggling with old stuff since my oldest started school this year. It brought up so many memories for me in such a visceral way. Essentially, I've been having flashbacks which I've never had before...well, at least I didn't realize it before if I did have them. Thank god for therapy to help me work all of this out! (It's amazing...I've been in and out of therapy for about 18 years and I'm getting so much out of it at this point in my life! It's been great throughout the years, but this has been the time in my life of huge healing and growth...amazing what kids can do!







)

Anyway, I went to therapy today and it was so healing. Lots of tears and really sitting in the old, nasty feelings with no defenses in between me and the trauma. Really raw stuff...it's so hard to be there, but when I got home I felt so relieved and like a burden was lifted. I know it isn't the end...the journey continues and the trauma will resurface, but it helps to know that with each encounter with the pain, the pain does lessen. I learn new ways to cope and take care of myself and I process the pain further.

A lot of my recent stuff was triggered when my mom went off of her meds for the millionth time. This is nothing new, but the way I am responding is different each time as I do more work on healing. (btw, I'm essentially my mother's guardian now so this is stuff that I deal with closely and it gets very tricky). Anyway, I was able to actually call her tonight after not speaking to her since she went off the meds. I shared with her that when she goes off of them, I have to stay away because of her psychosis and I just can't be there for her when she's that unhealthy. It felt really liberating to just tell her how I felt but not expecting any change from her. She actually took it well...by that I mean she didn't freak out, she listened but I'm sure it won't change anything. But it was a big step to just honestly tell her why I've been out of touch for the last couple of weeks.

Anyway, sorry to ramble about it. It was a big day of healing and for that I am so grateful. I'm hoping to be more present with my boys...that's always my goal. And less reactive and more clear about what's really going on with me. I loved one of the pp's suggestions about imaging the worst that can possibly happen. I did that today and I think it helped.

thank you for sharing this. it is amazing how having kids can really bring up so many unresolved childhood stuff of our own. that's great that you were able to express your feelings to your mother. my therapist said an interesting thing about my anger towards my mother and my extreme impatience and frustration in dealing with her. she said "in an unpleasant or unhealthy situation/relationship there are 4 things you can do - 1)leave it 2) try to change it/the other person 3) try to change the way you experience/percieve it or 4)do nothing". of course, #3 is the only one that actually has the potential to heal the situation and i try to keep this in mind when dealing with both my mom and my son. i can't change them or what they're doing that's driving me crazy. i can only control my reactions/responses to their behavior.







: whether or not i can remember these things in the heat of the moment is another story...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama_2_Boy* 
I just about had another bad episode last night when trying to get DS down for bed. If he is overtired, it's almost impossible to get him to lay still. He hops all over the bed laughing hysterically and refuses to settle down. When I am very tired and just ready to have a nervous break down, this is when my triggers happen. He started flailing his arms around and smaked me on the head. Then he was trying to grab onto my ear (something he does for comfort when trying to fall asleep) and he grabbed real hard and then yanked away pulling most of my hair out of my head with him. I yelled...OUCH!....he immediatly stopped moving and said "mama ? " as if to say "what's going on?" he settled down after that and I also realized that the frustration and anger that was welling up inside of my was immediatly released with that yell. I dont' know if this is a good idea though. I dont' know if he takes the yelling directed at him or not. He didn't appear to be upset by it, just mainly a little shocked by the volumn I think. He knows what ouch means though because he uses this word as well.

i think saying OUCH! in response to having your hair ripped out is totally understandable. being tired always makes things more diffuclt for me as well.

transformed - that sounds like a really difficult situation. i would be at the end of my rope too. i feel horrible saying this but there are plenty of days when i'm watching the clock, desperately waiting for DS' bedtime. those child-free nighttime hours are precious and very necessary for me to relax and recharge for the next day. luckily, ds is very easy to put to sleep - 2 stories on the couch and and a kiss and a hug and that's it - but if he struggled and resisted i don't know what i would do.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *swampangel* 
A lot of my recent stuff was triggered when my mom went off of her meds for the millionth time. This is nothing new, but the way I am responding is different each time as I do more work on healing. (btw, I'm essentially my mother's guardian now so this is stuff that I deal with closely and it gets very tricky). Anyway, I was able to actually call her tonight after not speaking to her since she went off the meds. I shared with her that when she goes off of them, I have to stay away because of her psychosis and I just can't be there for her when she's that unhealthy. It felt really liberating to just tell her how I felt but not expecting any change from her. She actually took it well...by that I mean she didn't freak out, she listened but I'm sure it won't change anything. But it was a big step to just honestly tell her why I've been out of touch for the last couple of weeks.

This is awesome. I recently read "The Dance of Anger" by Harriet Lerner (great read, BTW), and have been working towards exchanges like you had with your mom. So kudos to you, I'm in awe that you were able to tell her how you felt, stay calm and inoffensive, and genuinely do it without an ulterior motive. Yay!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
Unfortunatly, we are at risk of repeating the pattern and I am commited to not doing that. I never had time to heal though, I had my ds at 21.

Captin Crunchy, I dont know how you had the courage to sit with your mom like that.

I have NO love for my parents in my heart and I have no desire to talk with them about it. Mostly because they do not see it as abuse. They think they were/are good parents.

Are there other ways to handle it?

I think it is SO important to come to terms with what went on in your family of origin. I can totally see what you mean about it still being raw and not having had time to deal with those issues, but one thing about having kids is that it gives you a new perspective on your parents' lives. It's much easier to relate to the stress that they went through when you're going through it yourself, KWIM? Maybe you could just start there, by thinking about your mom as a young mother?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
Our Bedtime battles came to a head last night and last night turned out *really really ugly.*
My ds didnt have a nap yesterday due to preK and basically, I cant get him a nap anymore at all because of this preK schedule. (He is starting to get comfortable with the kids in his class and I am conflicted about moving him to another center, plus this one is so close we can walk together and we ALL need excercise really bad.)

So I put him to bed before Daddy got home at around 7:30, because bedtime is sooooo much easier with only one parent. The kids tend to listen alot better and dont get out of bed so much.

I think he slept for a few and then woke up at 9 and started playing his usual bedtime game. "I _WONT_ GO TO BED WITHOUT ________________." (food, drink, you, glow stick, you name it...) This is his statment EVERY NIGHT for the last MONTH.

It makes my blood boil when he talks too me like that but I try to be patient. I ushered him back into his room and explained that he needed to stay on his bed. He could choose not to sleep, or to sleep, or to read or play quietly. This is not working latley. I am not going to lay down with him because I only have like an hour to spend with dh and thats where my priority is. (My ds just talks to me and doesnt stop)

We tried placing him in our bed, and telling him we would be in in a few minutes....kept getting up.

Anyways, eventually after 50 billion times of gently taking him back to bed, I ended up threatening him with a spanking. (I do this all the time, hoping he wont get out of bed, but then when he does, I feellike i have to be accountable to what I said I would do_ so I spanked him lightly on the butt and told him to stay in bed.









Then he started throwing a fit when I would take him back into bed and was hysterical and he woke up his little sister.

My dh ended up spanking him like 6 times (each time for a seperate time of him getting out of bed) before I said "Its not working, he's not going to stop.)

So both the 22 month old and the 4 year old are throwing fits and my head is just spinning. Why doesnt GD work for me? Why dont they just go to bed? They are sooooo tired, neither of them really napped, why dont they just SLEEP?

It was the worst night ever. And alot of it was my fault because I could not keep my cool.

I hate bedtime. I cannot find a way to make it runsmoothly. We have a routine that has been in effect for years and it doesnt work!!!!!

I just dont want to be a mom after 9:00 PM and thats not a good attitude to have. But I dont get any other breaks than that so I allow myself to be a *little* selfish, I should be allowed to have some me time, right? (Obviously, not at the expense of the kids like that though) I guess I am not going to be able to do the self care I so desperatly need because I have to lie down with my kids at night and that makes me mad. I do not want to. It makes me feel resentful.

I feel so bad about these feelings. Like I shouldnt be having them.

Thanks for letting me vent.

PS-The more ashamed I feel about events that unfold unpleasently, the more they happen! How to break that cycle?!?!?! Its like a merry-go-round!

Have you read "Sleepless in America"? There are some really great ideas in there about bedtime battles, and how to avoid them.

Also, I've found that when I feel bad about having feelings, that's the surest way to continue having them! Isn't that ridiculous? I think my subconscious just won't let it go, it's like the little devil on my shoulder saying indignantly, "You deserve to be resentful! Your kids have been at you all day! When's your break, huh? When do YOU get a rest? Those little brats don't appreciate you at all!"

Anyway, when I can just take a deep breath and think, "I feel so frustrated and resentful of my children right now, and that's totally normal. It's not their fault. This is just one night of their entire lives, it's not the end of the world," I feel like I can move on more gracefully.


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

A question:

How do I talk to ds about what happened? I feel like when I try to talk to him about negative interactions, he isnt really interested in a "heart to heart" (I think he is too young!)

Earlier today I aplogized to him and tried to talk to him about it and he was just like "Mom, look at this lunchbox." (Totally not listening.







)

???


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## mamabear&babybear (Dec 20, 2004)

Welcome to the new folks!

Sounds like a tough night last night, Jenny.







I totally understand not wanting to lay down. I used to resent having to do it. I'll tell you what we do and maybe it will spark a few ideas that might work for you. We start our routine so that both girls are in bed by 8 (we cosleep but I still think there might be some things that might work for you). I nurse K down and then snuggle with J. In the book Easy to Love, Difficult to discpline it talks about a bed time routine where you say goodnight to your child one body part at a time while lightly touching them. "Goodnight hair, goodnight eyes, .... goodnight feet, goodnight toes, goodnight J". She absolutely loves this part. Then I lay with her for however long I have the patience for and then I let her know I will be getting up to have some quiet time just for me. I get up but "check" on her every 5-10 minutes. When I first started doing this she had no idea what "checking on her" meant, so I told her I would be back in 5-10 minutes to hug and kiss her. After awhile she started falling asleep before I was ready to get up most of the time.

As for your question about how to talk about arguments, I usually start with a statement like "You had a hard time going to sleep last night". Then if she doesn't respond I'll keep going, "I was frustrated because I needed some time to relax". Eventually J starts talking about it , too. If not I suppose I would just keep going, because it makes me feel better to say it out loud.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *violetisadora*
"oh you want me to tell you AGAIN about how much of a b*%ch i was this morning? okay honey"









Exactly!!


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamabear&babybear* 
Welcome to the new folks!

Sounds like a tough night last night, Jenny.







I totally understand not wanting to lay down. I used to resent having to do it. I'll tell you what we do and maybe it will spark a few ideas that might work for you. We start our routine so that both girls are in bed by 8 (we cosleep but I still think there might be some things that might work for you). I nurse K down and then snuggle with J. In the book Easy to Love, Difficult to discpline it talks about a bed time routine where you say goodnight to your child one body part at a time while lightly touching them. "Goodnight hair, goodnight eyes, .... goodnight feet, goodnight toes, goodnight J". She absolutely loves this part. Then I lay with her for however long I have the patience for and then I let her know I will be getting up to have some quiet time just for me. I get up but "check" on her every 5-10 minutes. When I first started doing this she had no idea what "checking on her" meant, so I told her I would be back in 5-10 minutes to hug and kiss her. After awhile she started falling asleep before I was ready to get up most of the time.

As for your question about how to talk about arguments, I usually start with a statement like "You had a hard time going to sleep last night". Then if she doesn't respond I'll keep going, "I was frustrated because I needed some time to relax". Eventually J starts talking about it , too. If not I suppose I would just keep going, because it makes me feel better to say it out loud.








Exactly!!

Thank you so much for the suggestions!!! I am going to try tonight!

I am afraid if I dont talk to him, he will think its his fault he got spanked and I want him to know that its not his fault.

The other day he hit me and I said "I understand you are mad but its not ok to hit me." and he said "Thats not what you taught me mommy!"

I know he was right. I told him he was right!










Thats a nice slap in the face, eih?







Of course I dont know how to get him not to hit if I am doing it myself. ugh.


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## swampangel (Feb 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
Thank you so much for the suggestions!!! I am going to try tonight!

I am afraid if I dont talk to him, he will think its his fault he got spanked and I want him to know that its not his fault.

The other day he hit me and I said "I understand you are mad but its not ok to hit me." and he said "Thats not what you taught me mommy!"

I know he was right. I told him he was right!










Thats a nice slap in the face, eih?







Of course I dont know how to get him not to hit if I am doing it myself. ugh.

I think you're doing incredibly well with such a difficult nighttime routine right now. As far as the hitting, I would just be accountable to him very directly - I spanked you last night and I was wrong. I am going to work very hard not to do that anymore. Hitting is wrong. - That way, you take the ownership of having made a mistake and it's really clear ot him.

As far as talking with him, ITA with the pp about making statements about it. A lot of kids won't get into a discussion about feelings in a direct way. Saying "bedtime was really hard last night! Let's work together to make our bedtime routine run more smoothly" might enlist his perspective on it. Maybe not, tho. Kids are so in the present.

One thing we did with ds when he was younger (2 or 3) was ask him what was next in the routine as we went..we would sort of play dumb and he got a kick out of knowing what to do next. We also resorted to a sticker chart as motivation at one point (again, when he was about 2). This worked well because he liked the concreteness of the chart. It didn't last long, but after a week or so of it we were in a good groove and the chart just kind of fell by the wayside.

Hang in there. It is so, so hard at times. And those of us with childhood trauma are really challenged in the GD area at times like this.


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## Writerbird (Jun 1, 2007)

I just lurk here. The kid's on the inside, so I have no room to judge. But I do have a thought to share, coming from a household that wasn't ABUSIVE, but not exactly a fountain of nurturing.

I once woke up in the wee hours of the morning and heard my dad talking to my mother. He was crying. I have to tell you that it horrified me, because I hadn't see or heard that in my entire life. He was the one that caused crying, you know?

So anyway. It was after midnight, and my dad was just broken up. I woke up in the middle of the story, but basically, he was frightened that no matter how hard he tried, his best wasn't good enough. HIS dad once sprained my dad's knee, by virtue of tripping him and then twisting his leg until my dad was screaming, to teach my dad not to walk away when my grandmother was talking. (That alone would have shocked me out of my socks - I would never EVER have guessed that my quiet grandfather was like that.)

My dad's next speech stuck in my brain forever. He said "I can't blame the girls. I know they can't see that what I say is a tenth of what I'm thinking, and that I'm _doing_ NONE of the things I was raised to do. But I try so hard, and I love them so much that I have to keep trying, and I wish they could know that."

It changed my entire relationship with my dad. I don't mean things miraculously got better overnight. But knowing he was doing his best, that he wasn't as omniscient as I'd been thinking he was, and finding out that every single day he was trying to do better than the day before? That was very powerful.

I guess what I'm saying is that I think that all of you are doing your kids a great service by struggling to do your best, and letting them know it IS a struggle... but that your love for them makes the struggle worth it. Finding that out from my dad changed my life. It could only have been better if he could have shared it with me directly.


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

thanks for your post, writerbird.

I have been trying to affirm myself latley for:

"If I am able to change nothing, if I turn out to be "my mother," I promise not to sweep things under the rug like she did. She would retreat into her room for hours (or days) after a large confrontation (not nessicarily physical....but you know the type) and then we would all pretend like nothing happened!"

That was the worst part of it all-we should have talked about it as a family.

But now I'm in charge...


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## Momma_Camille (Jan 11, 2007)

I really feel like that's so key too.

When we do screw up we shouldn't leave the kids to mentally work it out on their own. They don't have the skills.

What am I saying? lol I barely have the skills!

Talking just helps.


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## swampangel (Feb 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Writerbird* 
I just lurk here. The kid's on the inside, so I have no room to judge. But I do have a thought to share, coming from a household that wasn't ABUSIVE, but not exactly a fountain of nurturing.

I once woke up in the wee hours of the morning and heard my dad talking to my mother. He was crying. I have to tell you that it horrified me, because I hadn't see or heard that in my entire life. He was the one that caused crying, you know?

So anyway. It was after midnight, and my dad was just broken up. I woke up in the middle of the story, but basically, he was frightened that no matter how hard he tried, his best wasn't good enough. HIS dad once sprained my dad's knee, by virtue of tripping him and then twisting his leg until my dad was screaming, to teach my dad not to walk away when my grandmother was talking. (That alone would have shocked me out of my socks - I would never EVER have guessed that my quiet grandfather was like that.)

My dad's next speech stuck in my brain forever. He said "I can't blame the girls. I know they can't see that what I say is a tenth of what I'm thinking, and that I'm _doing_ NONE of the things I was raised to do. But I try so hard, and I love them so much that I have to keep trying, and I wish they could know that."

It changed my entire relationship with my dad. I don't mean things miraculously got better overnight. But knowing he was doing his best, that he wasn't as omniscient as I'd been thinking he was, and finding out that every single day he was trying to do better than the day before? That was very powerful.

I guess what I'm saying is that I think that all of you are doing your kids a great service by struggling to do your best, and letting them know it IS a struggle... but that your love for them makes the struggle worth it. Finding that out from my dad changed my life. It could only have been better if he could have shared it with me directly.

Wow....thank you so much for sharing this. (And congratulations on your baby!).

How old were you when you overheard this conversation? I feel like my oldest ds is just too young to take on too much information (he's 4 1/2). For now, I'm trying to shelter him a bit from the craziness that is my mother and my history with her (she is severely mentally ill). She's been in and out of the hospital loads of times and was commited by the state for a year about two years ago. He's seen her in different settings and knows that I do a lot for her, but he doesn't know more than that and I think that makes sense given his age. But I do often wonder how to talk about this stuff with him in the future. I do want him to know how different his experience is than mine was. His experience is so different mainly because I'm not suffering from a mental illness but also because I try so hard to do things in a healthy way where he's concerned. I fail and yell and make mistakes, but I do strive to do the very best I can for him.

Thanks again for sharing your perspective...that is so helpful to hear.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
thanks for your post, writerbird.

I have been trying to affirm myself latley for:

"If I am able to change nothing, if I turn out to be "my mother," I promise not to sweep things under the rug like she did. She would retreat into her room for hours (or days) after a large confrontation (not nessicarily physical....but you know the type) and then we would all pretend like nothing happened!"

That was the worst part of it all-we should have talked about it as a family.

But now I'm in charge...









Yes! Talking about it is so important. And I think just giving it words without getting specific feedback and input from your child is the important thing. I try to remind myself that I can just say what I want him to know very clearly and not get too wrapped up in his response...I know he heard me and that's what's important.


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

I wish I knew how to limit my exposure to my mom. (Without being a total b**** to her)

This morning is a good example, I am taking the kids over to her house so I can go shopping for a Halloween costume for them. (Getting in and out of the car a million times is not my 22 month olds favorite activity







)

So my mom says "Do you want me to go shopping with you" I am thinking "Um, NO, I cant stand to be in the same room with you for 5 minutesm, let alone a 2 hour shopping trip!!" I just said no politley, but she is going to press me.

It ruins my whole day to spend time with my mother.







:

I decided a few months ago, when I was wrestling with cutting her off, that I am going to let her screw up her own relationship (or not) with my kids. Her mother screwed up her own relationship with me, but my mom still made me hang out with her...when my kids come to me and tellme they dont like grandma very much-I'll make the call to not make them spend time over there! I havent seen any abuse really, just misled parenting skills, and thats fine. It will likley alienate them at some point, but I love natural consequences.

So what do you say when the person you cant stand wants to hang arounfg you and make you miserable al the time?


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## Devaskyla (Oct 5, 2003)

Quote:

So what do you say when the person you cant stand wants to hang arounfg you and make you miserable al the time?
"Hi Mom, when are you going home?"

Sorry, had to try to, really. Luckily my mother doesn't live really near- by, but she calls me every single night. It's driving me completely insane. Before my dad got sick, even when I moved out at 17, she called me once a week and that was ok, I could handle that. Then when dad was sick, she started called all of us every night (my sister, me & my 2 grandmas). Understandable, she was keeping us up to date on what was going on. When he died, she continued.

And for awhile, I could understand it, because she was lonely and grieving, but it's been *8* years since he died and she's still calling every single night. Even when she's staying at my sister's. Sometimes I just have to not call her back (she calls on the cell and then I use skype to call her). I can't away with that more than once every few weeks or so. If I did it a couple night in a row, she'd call the landlord (she's done it before).

I really wish some days that I could just cut off all contact with her, but she's not a bad person. She's just incredibly negative and disrespectful. And I'll never, ever forgive her for her comments when I finally found out I was adopted (and I didn't find out from my parents, big surprise).


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## swampangel (Feb 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
I wish I knew how to limit my exposure to my mom. (Without being a total b**** to her)

This morning is a good example, I am taking the kids over to her house so I can go shopping for a Halloween costume for them. (Getting in and out of the car a million times is not my 22 month olds favorite activity







)

So my mom says "Do you want me to go shopping with you" I am thinking "Um, NO, I cant stand to be in the same room with you for 5 minutesm, let alone a 2 hour shopping trip!!" I just said no politley, but she is going to press me.

It ruins my whole day to spend time with my mother.







:

I decided a few months ago, when I was wrestling with cutting her off, that I am going to let her screw up her own relationship (or not) with my kids. Her mother screwed up her own relationship with me, but my mom still made me hang out with her...when my kids come to me and tellme they dont like grandma very much-I'll make the call to not make them spend time over there! I havent seen any abuse really, just misled parenting skills, and thats fine. It will likley alienate them at some point, but I love natural consequences.

So what do you say when the person you cant stand wants to hang arounfg you and make you miserable al the time?

I think it's totally within reason to limit your exposure to your mom. It might also have the bi-product of feeling empowering to you because you're taking action toward taking care of yourself and making YOU the priority.

I think a big part of setting these kinds of boundaries is being clear about your intention. If you figure out what you're ok with and what you're no in terms of spending time with your mom, then it's about you and not about trying to get at her or impact her in some way. Does that make sense?

I'd also try to shift your interpretation a bit about your mom's intentions. If she's truly sadistic and trying to make you miserable, that's one thing. But if it's a matter of her own unresolved stuff and it's eeking out onto you, then perhaps you can remind yourself that she's doing the best she can for now. Not to say that you don't have the right to be angry, but sometimes if you can throw some compassion into the mix, it can actually feel better to you.

In the case of her wanting to join you on the shopping trip, you can express to her that you are really looking forward to the time alone without the kids. Then it isn't about her, it's about you. And you can be thankful that she is able to support you in getting some time for yourself.

You're right about her charting her own relationship with your kids. You can't architect that for them. I would just keep an eye out for anything you feel crosses the line and then let your kids make their own decisions about how they feel about her.

My sister made a big mistake, IMO, of not filtering her own stuff at all around her child. She would blast our mother all the time in front of her kid...well, that pretty much predetermined whatever kind of relationship her child was going to have with her grandmother. Not fair, IMO. Yes, our mother really did a number on us, but I don't think it's fair to poison the possibility of a different relationship between our children and our mother. Does that make sense? I've really tried to keep my own stuff out of my son's relationship with my mother. Those connections are important if they aren't dangerous or abusive. Cutting someone out creates a lot of loss and should be a very careful consideration, IMO.


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## Writerbird (Jun 1, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *swampangel* 
Wow....thank you so much for sharing this. (And congratulations on your baby!).

How old were you when you overheard this conversation? I feel like my oldest ds is just too young to take on too much information (he's 4 1/2).

Thanks. We're psyched... and not even DARING to say anything that smacks of "Well, we'll never let OUR kid do X."









I was in fifth grade, so... ten or eleven? But it's my opinion that I was able to process what I heard because starting quite young (certainly before school started), my mother primed the pump. She was always saying, no one is perfect, we all make mistakes, but good people try to do better each day and every day is a new day. So when I heard my dad saying essentially the same thing, but with his own horrific background as the "missing link," I was able to put two and two together.

Growing up is a process, and a long enough one that one bad week or even a bad summer doesn't ruin everything... I hope.


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## swampangel (Feb 10, 2007)

What a wise mama you are, Writerbird! What a lucky little babe you have!

Your mother sounds wonderful, too. I love what she said to you...I think that's so true and so healthy for kids to hear. I think we often try to reach crazy ideals when we become parents, forgetting that we are simply human and that's all we need to be. What crazy people we would raise if we didn't make mistakes!

Thanks for sharing this...it helps me a lot.


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## smeisnotapirate (Aug 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Devaskyla* 
Luckily my mother doesn't live really near- by, but she calls me every single night. It's driving me completely insane.

I have the opposite problem. My mother expects ME to call. At least once a week, on any special occasion in her life (we're 500+ miles away, so i have no idea how she expects me to know when these are), and whenever she's having a bad day.

So of course, I call once a week and whenever I have something special to say, and it's never enough.









Oh, and the best part? I forgot to call one week, called a couple days later, and got the "I haven't heard from you in forEVER" and "I don't ask for much" speeches.







:

Oh, AND she NEVER calls me. If I forget to call, she will wait for over a month for me to call. She'll never pick up the phone herself. She forgot my FIRST wedding anniversary, never called me. I called her on hers, and she b****ed about the fact that I didn't call earlier on in the afternoon.







:

C'est la vie, I guess. I have the mother of "nothing is ever good enough."







:


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Writerbird* 
She was always saying, no one is perfect, we all make mistakes, but good people try to do better each day and every day is a new day. .

This is so nice. I am going to try saying this about dh, though he is normally very patient. It's amazing how much better he is doing than his dad. I'm actually a little jealous sometimes!


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## Mama_2_Boy (Jun 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *smeisnotapirate* 
I..Oh, AND she NEVER calls me. If I forget to call, she will wait for over a month for me to call. She'll never pick up the phone herself. She forgot my FIRST wedding anniversary, never called me. I called her on hers, and she b****ed about the fact that I didn't call earlier on in the afternoon.







:

C'est la vie, I guess. I have the mother of "nothing is ever good enough."







:

I can relate to this from past experiences I've had with my own mum..the "nobody loves me" trying to guilt trip sentence. I have had good success with calling her out on these statements. My mum tends to have a bit of a personality disorder, so nothing is 100% successful but I find that the only way for me personally to keep my sanity with her is to constantly lay down boundaries.


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## Momma_Camille (Jan 11, 2007)

How's everyone doing?

We had a rough night a couple nights ago. But I did pretty good.

We had a lunch/party her for DH's sister's daughter & someone gave my DD grape pop. This is mostly horridly bad because she's allergic to red dye. Sigh.

She woke up at 11 PM after fitfully sleeping for about an hour & screamed for 2 straight hours - in night terror fashion. It was so awful.

But I was very calm for about 1:45 minutes. lol Then I finally decided I would set her in her room for a minute. So I took her from our family bed & set her on the one in her room. I hate to do that but I could feel the anger (although totally unjustified - it was NOT her fault!) welling up, kwim?

As luck would have it, she woke up all the way just moments later & stopped screaming. We talked for a little bit & then she wanted to get back in bed & went right to sleep.

I hate red dye.


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momma_Camille* 

I hate red dye.









:


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Me, too. I get too rough with ds sometimes -- I have hit him a couple of times and grabbed his arm several times. I have yelled at him way too many times to count. I grew up with an angry dad who slowly drank himself to death. My mom was emotionally absent and was depressed, and often spaced out and just plain didn't support me. I learned about sex from books and from the teachers at my UU church, who brought in porn. Oh, and once from my dad when I was probably three or four, when he gave me and my two older brothers (who were six and eight years older than me) a quick mechanics talk after we took our bath.
I struggle with depression, too, and am not really happy in my marriage.


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## Momma_Camille (Jan 11, 2007)




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## mamabear&babybear (Dec 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momma_Camille* 
I hate red dye.









: and most other artificial colors and flavors as well. We've had a few rough days lately. I've noticed the I lose control a lot the week after AF ends. I'm wondering if hormones are playing a role in that. I'm not sure what to do if they are. Anyway things are getting better now.

I can also relate to the "nobody loves me" guilt trip. My mom once told me that she would have killed herself if it weren't for my brother and me. She has in the past few years improved but is still depressed quite often.


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## Momma_Camille (Jan 11, 2007)

My mom told me she wanted to kill herself today. It might be wrong but I actually laughed at her. If I sympathize it'll go on for hours.

I know she won't because it goes so completely against her beliefs. I just told her she was being over dramatic. It's an awfully permanent solution to her temporary problem. Sigh. Her mood swings fast enough she won't be talking like that tomorrow though.

Aye, Aye, Aye.

Been a good day here today though!


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## my3peanuts (Nov 25, 2006)

I've appreciated this thread.









I too don't know if I really fit here. I'm not sure if I would go as far as to say my mom abused me growing up. Verbally maybe. Physically? Not sure.

My mom was an angry person and she yelled a lot. Growing up you weren't allowed to have an opinion that differed from hers and if you did you got in trouble. As younger kids that meant a spanking & as we got older it was usually just being yelled at or grounded. One memory that sticks out very vividly in my mind was when I was 13. My mom & I were arguing and I think I said I hated her and she smacked me hard in the mouth. I had braces and I remember my gums were bleeding & she felt bad but yet never apologized. Her way of showing you she felt badly was to buy you something. I don't ever remember her apologizing for anything.

I don't remember hearing her say I love you or being hugged or kissed. I remember a few hugs, times when I was leaving town for a few days or something like that.

My mom frequently told me I talked to much, that I was a brat, that I was spoiled, that she liked my sister more than me, etc. She always did it semi-jokingly but I always believed her.

She never respected my privacy. Even at 18 she'd never knock before coming into my room & more than once I'd found out she'd read my journals.

I'm 26 years old and she still does things to hurt me. I don't know why she does it but I truly believe she does it intentionally. An example is... My son has a seizure disorder. We brought him to the Mayo clinic a couple months ago to try to find the cause of the seizures. He has other issues including GI issues, low tone, delays, etc... The GI really thought we should have a scope done. Talk was also made of a muscle biopsy and spinal tap. When I called to tell my mom she started telling me how "she'd never let them do all of that to a little baby" and how maybe I just don't feed him enough. She was angry but I didn't know how angry until I talked to my grandma who told me my mom had told her that I was just young and didn't know what I was doing and that my nephew had low tone and my sister didn't have to make a big deal about it by taking him for a second opinion(although the low tone wasn't the reason we got the 2nd opinion at all) and she said a lot of things about me that made me feel like I was just blowing everything out of proportion and nothing drastic was wrong with our son and I shouldn't be letting them do all of these invasive things. She made it seem like I wanted them done, somehow for my own benefit, and that I was stupid.

That was 2 months ago and I still think about it every time I talk to her. She frequently makes me feel like I'm not making the right decisions and I honestly believe that part of it is that she feels guilty for not making some better decisions at my age and it must make her feel better to think I'm obviously making wrong decisions in her mind as well.

Anyway, this is all affecting the way I parent. I've stopped spanking for the most part although I did spank my 4 year old the other day after many, many months of having not. My problem is the yelling though. I yell too much and my 4 year old has picked up on it a lot and yells frequently to her sister and I can see her own rage.







It's scary and it scares me. I don't want to be MY mom. I want to do better than that. I want my kids to FEEL loved. The other day I'd had a very long day with my 4 year old dd and I ended up shopping later that evening and bought her a necklace. It was my way of saying, "I'm sorry for yelling at you so much. I love you. Accept this necklace as my way of saying I'm sorry." And ya know, that's exactly what my mom would do. Her way of showing us love was to buy us things. I don't want that. I want my dd to know I love her no matter what. Not only to feel it through material possessions.

I don't spend enough time with my kids. I don't play with them. I don't read to them. I feel like I'm a good mom, but definitely not as good as I could be, or should be. I don't neglect them in an abusive way but I'm not there for them like I could be.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *my3peanuts* 
My son has a seizure disorder. We brought him to the Mayo clinic a couple months ago to try to find the cause of the seizures. He has other issues including GI issues, low tone, delays, etc... The GI really thought we should have a scope done. Talk was also made of a muscle biopsy and spinal tap. When I called to tell my mom she started telling me how "she'd never let them do all of that to a little baby" and how maybe I just don't feed him enough. She was angry but I didn't know how angry until I talked to my grandma who told me my mom had told her that I was just young and didn't know what I was doing and that my nephew had low tone and my sister didn't have to make a big deal about it by taking him for a second opinion(although the low tone wasn't the reason we got the 2nd opinion at all) and she said a lot of things about me that made me feel like I was just blowing everything out of proportion and nothing drastic was wrong with our son and I shouldn't be letting them do all of these invasive things. She made it seem like I wanted them done, somehow for my own benefit, and that I was stupid.

Do you think she's genuinely worried about him, and this is her way of coping with it? Maybe she feels better if she can minimize YOUR concerns and dismiss you as incompetent, because then she won't have to face the fear of having a grandson with health problems. I also thought it was interesting that your grandma passed on all of what your mom said about you. What kind of mother was your grandmother?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *my3peanuts* 
I don't spend enough time with my kids. I don't play with them. I don't read to them. I feel like I'm a good mom, but definitely not as good as I could be, or should be. I don't neglect them in an abusive way but I'm not there for them like I could be.









None of us are perfect. It sounds to me like you're doing great!


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## my3peanuts (Nov 25, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah* 
Do you think she's genuinely worried about him, and this is her way of coping with it? Maybe she feels better if she can minimize YOUR concerns and dismiss you as incompetent, because then she won't have to face the fear of having a grandson with health problems. I also thought it was interesting that your grandma passed on all of what your mom said about you. What kind of mother was your grandmother?

None of us are perfect. It sounds to me like you're doing great!









Yeah, I thought the same thing about my grandmother. Almost as if she wanted me to be upset with my mom because it made her look better since she kept saying, "Well I support you". I wonder sometimes what she really thinks about it all also.

I do think part of it is that my mom is worried about him & doesn't know how else to deal with it.


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## swampangel (Feb 10, 2007)

my3peanuts, it's so hard to process it all, isn't it? you're dealing with your own childhood through being a mother and seeing your childhood reflected in your children. i'm going through this same process and it is agonizing at times. i think when you're feeling down on yourself, that's the best time to treat yourself like a queen...take a hot bubble bath with a great book or magazine, go for a walk, get together with a friend, etc.

i don't remember to do this enough, but when my cup is empty it's really time to spend time on me...then i'm a better mother and partner and all the rest.

you're not alone and processing the past is painful. but everyday you have a new opportunity to do it differently with your kids and to take care of yourself and the wounds you've been carrying around.


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## mamabear&babybear (Dec 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *my3peanuts* 
I want to do better than that. I want my kids to FEEL loved. The other day I'd had a very long day with my 4 year old dd and I ended up shopping later that evening and bought her a necklace. It was my way of saying, "I'm sorry for yelling at you so much. I love you. Accept this necklace as my way of saying I'm sorry." And ya know, that's exactly what my mom would do. Her way of showing us love was to buy us things. I don't want that. I want my dd to know I love her no matter what. Not only to feel it through material possessions.

I don't spend enough time with my kids. I don't play with them. I don't read to them. I feel like I'm a good mom, but definitely not as good as I could be, or should be. I don't neglect them in an abusive way but I'm not there for them like I could be.









This really resonated with me. My parents tried to buy my love as well. When really what I needed most was a hug or two. I feel like I don't spend enough time with my kids as well. It's something I'm constantly working on. As well as giving them hugs when I'm angry but they are hurting. Right now, it's like trying to move a mountian. Anyway, thanks for posting. I hope you were able to get help for you son. That must be hard to go through.


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## Mama_2_Boy (Jun 18, 2007)

Quote:

Originally Posted by my3peanuts
I want to do better than that. I want my kids to FEEL loved. The other day I'd had a very long day with my 4 year old dd and I ended up shopping later that evening and bought her a necklace. It was my way of saying, "I'm sorry for yelling at you so much. I love you. Accept this necklace as my way of saying I'm sorry." And ya know, that's exactly what my mom would do. Her way of showing us love was to buy us things. I don't want that. I want my dd to know I love her no matter what. Not only to feel it through material possessions.

*I don't spend enough time with my kids. I don't play with them. I don't read to them. I feel like I'm a good mom, but definitely not as good as I could be, or should be. I don't neglect them in an abusive way but I'm not there for them like I could be.*
This is how I've been feeling lately, and it makes me so sad. DH and I have had some things to tackle in the house the last 3 days and we were both going at it non-stop. This left my little guy to fend for himself. He does enjoy playing alone but he gets tired of it and comes hunting for us and if we don't pay attention to him, he acts out of sorts. He went through my cosmetics and dumped everything on the carpet, then he proceeded to rub it in with his hands







:. I know this is normal behaviour but I didn't handle the situation to well. Then, as I mentioned in an earlier post, I feel guilty and it lingers for days and I obsess about it. I too want me child to _feel_ love and to know that he is okay and that he has us there for him always. I am also PMS'ing right now which isin't helping things, I get very tense very easily and then I hate myself afterwards







:


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## Diane B (Mar 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *my3peanuts* 
I've appreciated this thread.








I don't want to be MY mom. I want to do better than that.

Well, from my own experience, I would say awareness is a great first step. We all need help and support if we don't want to "be our parents", though. Otherwise, I do believe we will tend to act toward our children the same way in which we were brought up. It's really hard not to - those patterns are so deep.

I really support you getting whatever help you need, in whatever form, to feel more at ease about your past, and more confident in how you parent your son. From your post, it sounds like your heart is in the right place, and is guiding you in the direction you need to go!


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## dflanag2 (Oct 4, 2005)

Thanks for all your stories and insights, I have been reading this thread in its entirety over the past couple weeks.

I think I, too, fall into the 'not-really-seriously-abused' category, but 'traumatic childhood' would apply. A lot of what you all are saying really resonates with me...

My childhood:
-depressed mom, unhappy with marriage, and unhappy staying home full-time
-dad unhappy, and raised in very dysfunctional household, grandma is a piece of work
-no one really said "I love you" or hugged
-No real hitting, occasionally spanking, both parents did the arm grab and the nasty tone of voice. Severe verbal abuse to my brother, who wet the bed.
-divorce at age 12, then I was emotional support for my dad, and did the whole torn between 2 parents. Grew up fast.
-no one taught me appropriate ways to express or cope with anger, in fact I was taught that I wasn't ALLOWED to be angry.

Now:
-I have a sense of Anger Entitlement, as in, "I am angry and I need to be acknowledged NOW." Major trigger for me if someone is blowing off my feelings, even if they are three years old.








-Other triggers include hunger, fatigue, infliction of physical pain (if I get hit my reaction is to hit back, THAT took some controlling), interference when I am in perfectionist mode.
-Emotional confrontation is difficult, because when I am really hurting I am scared that I will be rejected, because that is what would happen when I was a kid. So I withdraw and hope someone (dh) will notice, and no one (dh)does, then I get depressed. (Although, I am thinking now that it has been quite a while since I did that dance. This is good!)
-regularly fighting depression, don't take meds, but try to do a lot of self-care.

Coping strategies:
-Tell my kids/DH I love them all the time, try to say nice things about them, express appreciation.
-Lots of hugging, stroking, cuddling
-try to have fun and laugh, do the playful parenting
-consciously make eye contact w/kids when things are good. (Hmmm... need to do that more w/DH) It was wierd, no one in my family really made eye contact growing up. I am uncomfortable with a lot of eye contact in personal relationships.
-apologize when I get angry and talk about what I did that wasn't right and what I will try to do next time instead, and how we should all try every day to be nice and gentle with one another, but everyone makes mistakes and needs to practice
-accept what has happened and try not to beat self up about it, this is difficult since I ruminate about everything.

Today's moments:
-I let the kids make a mess with packing peanuts (okay, by the time I decided to let them play with them, it was already a mess, and I chose to let it go and clean it up later.) When (a while) later I said it was time to clean up, I asked DS (3) to help, and he kept playing in a way that made more mess. It escalated to yelling, then I took him up to his room. (I was saving this for only when I am losing control, accidentally discovered that it helps him cool off, then he comes back and) apologizes voluntarily. he then helped clean up and enjoyed doing it. (trigger: interference)
-I yelled when he was grabbing at stuff while I was trying to make lunch. (trigger: hungry even though I did not feel physically hungry at all, I notice I lose it A LOT before lunchtime and dinnertime--also because I am trying to cook)
-More yelling when trying to get ready to go out in afternoon. Tell DS I am ready to help put on shoes, he won't come over. I get up to change baby's diaper/do other things to get ready, he whines b/c I am not helping him put on shoes. Baby (14 mos)protests and fights diaper change, which is a large messy BM, DS is whining and I am going out of my mind. (trigger: everyone being difficult at the same time: I am not a multitasker. Also tired and the whining kills me. One time we were driving in the car, and DS was whining that he wanted to go home and get a toy despite having 4 other toys in the car. He said, "Turn around and go hoooome..." over and over. I coped by counting how many times he said it: thirty)

Only three times today, and no complete loss of control. A decent day.









-dflanag2


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## smeisnotapirate (Aug 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dflanag2* 
I coped by counting how many times he said it: thirty)

Love that!


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dflanag2* 
Thanks for all your stories and insights, I have been reading this thread in its entirety over the past couple weeks.

I think I, too, fall into the 'not-really-seriously-abused' category, but 'traumatic childhood' would apply. A lot of what you all are saying really resonates with me...

My childhood:
-depressed mom, unhappy with marriage, and unhappy staying home full-time
-dad unhappy, and raised in very dysfunctional household, grandma is a piece of work
-no one really said "I love you" or hugged
-No real hitting, occasionally spanking, both parents did the arm grab and the nasty tone of voice. Severe verbal abuse to my brother, who wet the bed.
-divorce at age 12, then I was emotional support for my dad, and did the whole torn between 2 parents. Grew up fast.
-no one taught me appropriate ways to express or cope with anger, in fact I was taught that I wasn't ALLOWED to be angry.

Now:
-I have a sense of Anger Entitlement, as in, "I am angry and I need to be acknowledged NOW." Major trigger for me if someone is blowing off my feelings, even if they are three years old.








-Other triggers include hunger, fatigue, infliction of physical pain (if I get hit my reaction is to hit back, THAT took some controlling), interference when I am in perfectionist mode.
-Emotional confrontation is difficult, because when I am really hurting I am scared that I will be rejected, because that is what would happen when I was a kid. So I withdraw and hope someone (dh) will notice, and no one (dh)does, then I get depressed. (Although, I am thinking now that it has been quite a while since I did that dance. This is good!)
-regularly fighting depression, don't take meds, but try to do a lot of self-care.

Coping strategies:
-Tell my kids/DH I love them all the time, try to say nice things about them, express appreciation.
-Lots of hugging, stroking, cuddling
-try to have fun and laugh, do the playful parenting
-consciously make eye contact w/kids when things are good. (Hmmm... need to do that more w/DH) It was wierd, no one in my family really made eye contact growing up. I am uncomfortable with a lot of eye contact in personal relationships.
-apologize when I get angry and talk about what I did that wasn't right and what I will try to do next time instead, and how we should all try every day to be nice and gentle with one another, but everyone makes mistakes and needs to practice
-accept what has happened and try not to beat self up about it, this is difficult since I ruminate about everything.

Today's moments:
-I let the kids make a mess with packing peanuts (okay, by the time I decided to let them play with them, it was already a mess, and I chose to let it go and clean it up later.) When (a while) later I said it was time to clean up, I asked DS (3) to help, and he kept playing in a way that made more mess. It escalated to yelling, then I took him up to his room. (I was saving this for only when I am losing control, accidentally discovered that it helps him cool off, then he comes back and) apologizes voluntarily. he then helped clean up and enjoyed doing it. (trigger: interference)
-I yelled when he was grabbing at stuff while I was trying to make lunch. (trigger: hungry even though I did not feel physically hungry at all, I notice I lose it A LOT before lunchtime and dinnertime--also because I am trying to cook)
-More yelling when trying to get ready to go out in afternoon. Tell DS I am ready to help put on shoes, he won't come over. I get up to change baby's diaper/do other things to get ready, he whines b/c I am not helping him put on shoes. Baby (14 mos)protests and fights diaper change, which is a large messy BM, DS is whining and I am going out of my mind. (trigger: everyone being difficult at the same time: I am not a multitasker. Also tired and the whining kills me. One time we were driving in the car, and DS was whining that he wanted to go home and get a toy despite having 4 other toys in the car. He said, "Turn around and go hoooome..." over and over. I coped by counting how many times he said it: thirty)

Only three times today, and no complete loss of control. A decent day.









-dflanag2

I think it's great how in touch you are with all the triggers and your background! I am going to try and do a similar thing for myself. I know one of my huge triggers is when the baby is fussing and I'm trying to help one of the older kids. I just start feeling so anxious!


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## Diane B (Mar 15, 2004)

I'm going to bump this thread back, with a question. Does name-calling trigger extreme anger in anyone else? I had a couple of blow-ups with my daughter in the past few days, although overall, I've really been doing so well. It was very disappointing, but in thinking through the incidents, I realized that she is experimenting with "potty language" and the name-calling just set me off before I could choose how to respond.

We have found that a more playful approach really works "Gosh, I can't hear you when you say those words!" or calmly saying, "Potty words are only for the bathroom," but of course, I didn't do those things. I yelled, and she escalated too in response.

I was tormeted by other kids a lot growing up, with a lot of name-calling, and I think it just bothers me in a very deep way. Good to know, I suppose.


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

not name calling but when my ds spits in my face it does.







: He is in a spitting phase. He likes to spit out carrots in his sisters hair and spit water and stuff. I am avoiding a major disaster of a tantrum that I really want to throw. Its really really hard.


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## harmonymama (Feb 4, 2005)

Does anyone want to resurrect this thread? I was just a lurker mostly, but I could really use the support here again. I was not abused as a child, but did witness a lot of anger from my parents and others. And I definitely have anger issues. I've been doing a lot better in general, but yesterday I lost it and spanked. I feel terrible. I just need a place to admit that and get back on the wagon. I'm a good mama, I know that, but I so want to be the mama my kids really deserve.







:

Even on my good weeks/months, I yell too often. I really want to stop.

I found a site I liked the other day that I think I'm going to work on:
gettheangriesout.com


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Mama have you been to the *Parenting and Rage* thread? There are a lot of btdt ideas to help cool the fiery reactions, and help to recognize our triggers and choose our reactions. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=394579

Also, if there are specific discipline issues, consider asking for some brainstorming help in GD.

Pat


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