# Is he manipulating us?



## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

I will try and make this as short and clear as possible----

A little background- DS is 13 months old, mostly breastfed (about 10-20% solids at this point), and has always been a sleep fighter. He has always needed a lot of parenting to get to sleep. He never goes to sleep willingly, unless he is completely exhausted and just crashes, and always always fights it.. either by trying to play, or fussing and pushing us away, etc. He also is a frequent night waker, on a GOOD night he only wakes every 2 hours...... So here is my story and my question--

Tonight DS seemed tired a little earlier than usual, rubbing eyes/fussy/saying "nigh-night" etc. around 6:00.. So I nursed him, and he didn't nurse great, and started biting (he's getting some molars, and when he is teething he tends to bite) so I assumed he was done nursing. Then DH came in to get him to sleep (the past month or so, he has only been going to sleep for Daddy) and DS started fighting it bad. Then he started crying really hard, and screaming. After about a minute or so I went back there and tried to get DH to give up for now. He wouldn't. He asked me to give him 5 more minutes, so I did, and DS screamed bloody murder the whole time (with DH holding him).









Then DH and I got into an argument, because I thought he should give up when he is crying and screaming that hard, and DH thinks that DS is trying to be manipulative, that he "is not a baby anymore, he knows what he is doing, and we need to _do something_ to nip this in the bud before it keeps getting worse."

Well we gave up for about 30 minutes, and then I took him to the bed and he did nurse to sleep in about 30 minutes, with only a little bit of fighting. So yeah, DH was right, he was tired and ready for bed.. but for some reason he was screaming really bad with DH tonight.

What do you think? Is he really old enough to be manipulating us? There are times when I definitely know he is trying to play instead of going to sleep when he is tired (he is always nursed/rocked/bounced to sleep, I don't expect him to fall asleep on his own or anything) and it is really frustrating. Does anyone have experience with this? When did it end, if ever, and how did you handle it? I feel like we need to be consinstent in 'making him' go to sleep when he is tired, and not giving in and letting him play longer when he is tired and needs to go to sleep.. But if he is screaming/crying, even if in arms, I am just not comfortable with that......................

Any advice?


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## jennpn (Jul 30, 2009)

He is still very young, I doubt he is manipulating in the sense that he is consciously trying to control you for personal gain in a negative sence (babies do this all the time..it is what makes them babies...it is not manipulation). I would maybe work on his self soothing skills a little bit when he is not so wound up, maybe so he is not relying on external comfort 100%. I think some support from you is okay but it sounds like he has no idea what to do without you. My son was like this. I nursed him to calm him and then put him down in the bed while awake and calm. Then I would lay next to him and rub his back or pat his bum (I would hold him down with one arm and pat him with the other...he would stop resisting very quickly once I started patting him). After this the duration got shorter and shorter and he was soon able to lay down without being nursed and then I only had to pat him for a few moments...THEN I was able to give him his pacifier and put him down to sleep and simply walk out. When he night woke he would go back to sleep on his own.
It can happen...be patient but it is not unrealistic to expect that he can just roll over and go back to sleep during the night without you.

Good Luck! OVer a year of sleep deprivation is so hard!


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

I don't think he's capable of manipulating you in the way your husband sees that word. I do think he has a certain way of communicating with you that gets his needs met.

As far as when it ends that a child quits fighting sleep... that depends on the child, I'm sure.

When do the stop needing to be nursed to sleep? My girls stopped needing that at different times as well, but I wouldn't expect any child to no longer need this until they are three years old.

He's still so young and I don't think there is manipulation going on here.

I don't know what your schedule is like, or if he still takes naps (my girls both dropped their naps at the age of 2), but 6 pm seems awful early for bedtime to me.


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## Calidris (Apr 17, 2004)

Nope, 1 year olds don't manipulate. Whatever he does is his form of communication. And approaching their behaviours like that is setting yourselves up for conflict. It is creating a confrontational atmosphere between yourselves and your chid.

When he's 5 and you tell him to clean his room and he say "you're beautiful Mommy, Let's play Go Fish!" He will be at the beginning of learning to use manipulation.


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

I am not asking for him to not need help to get to sleep. It is the fighting the help (biting me, not wanting to nurse, pushing away when we try to rock, etc) that is wearing on us.

Sometimes he does go to sleep at 6 pm, usually if he misses his afternoon nap (today he only took one nap mid-day). Usually his schedule is one of the following--

6 AM- wakeup
9 or 10 AM- nap
3 PM- nap
8 PM- bed

or

7 AM or later- wakeup
11 AM or 12 PM- nap
7 PM- bed

of course it is always different, but if he sleeps in later than 6 (rarely) he takes a later morning nap, misses his afternoon nap, and goes to bed earlier..

I guess I know that he is conciously resisting going to sleep, but why? And what can I do about it, if anything..?


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LadyCatherine185* 

I guess I know that he is consciously resisting going to sleep, but why? And what can I do about it, if anything..?

Maybe he's not. Maybe what he is protesting is how icky his body feels when he's tired. He feels miserable and has no clue how to make that feeling go away.


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## jnet24 (Sep 4, 2006)

I really don't like thinking of a child especially a baby as being manipulative. Using that word makes it seem like a he is doing it with malious intent. I try to think of it as learning cause and effect, testing boundaries, trying to exercise some control of his world. I mean no offense, but your DH is wrong, he is just a baby. Your baby came into the world not even 400 days ago, and it seems like your DH is really expecting too much from your DS. There can be so many things contributing to his actions. My los always fought sleep, and slept worse when they were learning a new skill like walking, or talking more. You mentioned he was teething this could really be the cause. You also said he always needed a lot of parenting to sleep. You can't rock, sing, nurse, etc them to sleep every night as infants and then when it becomes inconvenient or you think they are too old for it just expect them to just adjust. I am sorry if this sounds harsh but he is 13 months, he is a baby. Babies can't be manipulative.

If you are looking for ways to help your baby self soothe, the book The No Cry Sleep Solution has many ways to do so in a very gentle way. Personally I just gave up trying to encourage self soothing and instead looked at all the rocking, holding, patting, and singing in a positive light. I cherish the moments I hold my lo while they are sleeping whether they are 2 or if they are newborns. They are only little for so long, and soon they won't want to cuddle with their mama.

I saw your secound post after posting this so... I wanted to add that
1. A good night time routine of bath, books, nurse, rock, then bed.
2. No tv after 6 pm.
3. Only quiet toys after dinner.
4*Catching them before they are really too tired is REALLY important.*
really do help my sleep fighters.


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jnet24* 
I try to think of it as learning cause and effect, testing boundaries, trying to exercise some control of his world.

*I think he is definitely testing boundaries... How do I be firm while still meeting his needs if he won't LET ME meet his needs?*

You mentioned he was teething this could really be the cause. You also said he always needed a lot of parenting to sleep. You can't rock, sing, nurse, etc them to sleep every night as infants and then when it becomes inconvenient or you think they are too old for it just expect them to just adjust.

*I do not expect him to self-soothe, and it is not inconvenient for me to help him get to sleep. That is not the issue. I never said it was. It is his fighting us when he is tired that has been an issue, and we don't want it to become worse and worse.....*
If you are looking for ways to help your baby self soothe, the book The No Cry Sleep Solution has many ways to do so in a very gentle way. Personally I just gave up trying to encourage self soothing and instead looked at all the rocking, holding, patting, and singing in a positive light. I cherish the moments I hold my lo while they are sleeping whether they are 2 or if they are newborns. They are only little for so long, and soon they won't want to cuddle with their mama.

*I have NCSS, and have tried many of the techniques. I would love to look at the rocking/nursing/etc in a positive light. But when you are forcing a baby to rock when they don't want to, or if they keep biting you when you are nursing them, etc it is really hard to be positive about that*.

1. A good night time routine of bath, books, nurse, rock, then bed.
2. No tv after 6 pm.
3. Only quiet toys after dinner.
4*Catching them before they are really too tired is REALLY important.*
really do help my sleep fighters.

*THanks, we have tried all of these things and many more. He still fights sleep. It is def much worse when he is teething or working on a new skill.. but it is something that has been a part of him since he was born pretty much.*

bolded my answers


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Purity♥Lake~* 
Maybe he's not. Maybe what he is protesting is how icky his body feels when he's tired. He feels miserable and has no clue how to make that feeling go away.

This could be.. But if he feels icky why won't he let us comfort him and help him feel better?









He is also very verbal. We say "Liam, it is time for nigh-night" and he even says nigh-night himself when he is tired... And he will shake his head "no" if he doesn't want to go to sleep. He will stop nursing and sit up in the bed and keep shaking his head "no" and roll around and laugh and try to play..


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## aiea (Jan 27, 2007)

I second the idea that you should try to catch him before he's really tired, specifically by making certain he doesn't skip a nap. I know when DD1 was that age, if we dared to skip a nap, it made regular night time into terrible night time.

Also, in the midst of the sleep-fighting I used to find it helpful to give her something to focus on. It could be a song or a mobile to watch while we rocked/jogged/swung together, or it could be something much less complex, like me saying "bumbumbum" ad infinitum or something equally hypnotic.

PS There are many times throughout the day that DD1 has felt icky and won't let me comfort her. That trend probably began around early toddlerhood, and it broke my heart a little, but she's always been that way. I have to really "get into her head" to draw her out of it, and at 13 mos I often couldn't do it as she didn't have the verbal skills.


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

I have tried catching him before he is tired, and the fighting is worse. I don't 'let' him miss a nap, he misses one when he fights me too much and I just can't get him to sleep and I give up after wasting an hour trying to get him to sleep.

The only way he doesn't fight it, is if he is DEAD tired and will nurse right to sleep.

Also, it has to be pitch black dark (black-out curtains) and there has to be white noise, with no other noise, for him to fall asleep. No distractions whatsoever.


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## jnet24 (Sep 4, 2006)

Once again i read your secound post after I typed mine, so I see your situation in a different light. The only thing that helped me with my DS was to find the magical time to put him to sleep. I know that it sounds crazy, but if I lay him down for a nap before he is ready or after a window of time, it can take an hour to fall asleep, same as night time. I have to be laying with him at 7:30 for him to fall asleep at 8 ish. If I miss 7:30 and it is 8:30 it takes FOREVER. He is rough when he is over tired. I really really tried hard to maintain a good overall schedule for the day. He was a early napper so I laid him down two hours after waking and then immediately after lunch. Bedtime routine starts at 7ish and laying down by 7:30. I really watched for tired cues and tried to figure out when the best time to encourage him to sleep was. Once I figured out those times I stuck with them to really get him used to it, it took a week or two and then he really fell into the routine. In the meantime when he was fighting being in arms we tried to hold him in different rooms of the house, in front of a candle (not too close or anything), he loved the fish tank. Sometimes the only thing that worked was Baby Einstein lullaby dvd. It is very relaxing. Do you have a noise machine we have one this one http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/prod...1&SKU=14643125
he still loves it. We just stuck to the routine and now it is much better. Also I found that a good solid nap, at any cost, is really helpful and makes the night much easier. If he doesn't sleep well at nap he is over tired the rest of the night is much worse when he is overtired, so I try to avoid that as much as possible.

He also woke up many times, and took alot of parenting to sleep. At two we found out he suffered from ear infections, probably his whole life, and we never knew it. (He had speech issues and failed a hearing test. Thats when we found out) He didn't have a fever or any other signs besides wanting to nurse very frequently (the sucking relieves pressure). He also had obstructive sleep apnea and we never noticed it even though we coslept.He also has sensory issues and helping sort them out before bed helps too. Maybe something you should explore.


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jnet24* 
He also has sensory issues and helping sort them out before bed helps too. Maybe something you should explore.
He also woke up many times, and took alot of parenting to sleep. At two we found out he suffered from ear infections, probably his whole life, and we never knew it. (He had speech issues and failed a hearing test. Thats when we found out) He didn't have a fever or any other signs besides wanting to nurse very frequently (the sucking relieves pressure). He also had obstructive sleep apnea and we never noticed it even though we coslept.

This sounds very interesting, could you explain more? I have always thought his frequent waking was a little on the excessive side of 'normal' but haven't found a cause so far... Were there any other signs of the ear infection? Or sensory issues? What about the obstructive sleep apnea? Anything I could look out for?


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

oh and we have 2 fans for white noise


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## jnet24 (Sep 4, 2006)

Okay here was\is our issues

Ear Infections: When DS was 2 he wasn't talking very clearly. He had words for things but you still really didn't know what he was saying. Looking back he kinda zoned out in loud places, all the noice was too much to sort out so he retreated I guess. We took him to the Dr, then an ENT for a hearing test and found out he had mild hearing loss due to fluid behind his eardrums. He got tubes in April. He never had any typical signs of ear infections; drainage, fever, pulling at ears. He nursed constantly all night and day. I stopped nursing him at 18 months because he weaned himself due to milk supply issues because I was 5 months pregnant. Even though I lost my milk a while before that he was still nursing 10 or more times a day. And literally he just stopped one day.

Sleep Apnea: this is a good page for info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstructive_sleep_apnea

When we took him to the ENT for the tubes he asked us about sleep issues. I explained his frequent night wakings. At 2 years old he still woke up 7-10 times a night. The only sypmtoms were breathing a little louder than most toddlers, but he didn't really snore and he sometimes would wake up kinda scared or like you were jolted awake. The ENT looked into his nose and xrayed his adnoids and said they were very swollen and he had them taken out when he had the ear tubes put in.

Sensory Issues: still in the process of pinpointing. But when you pointed out what he needed to fall asleep (lights off, etc) and that he seems to be a more high needs child it may be worth exploring further.'

Hope that helps.


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## InMediasRes (May 18, 2009)

I remember reading all of your posts a while back (maybe 3 mo ago?) and how awful your situation sounded. I had hoped that something got better, but it sounds like it hasn't improved.... I'm so sorry, mama







.

My DS is very high needs, and had very similar sleeping problems when he was littler. He fought sleep like crazy. Sometimes it would take me 2-3 hours to get him to bed. And this was with the white noise, pitch dark, only me in the room, being very boring. We also tried rocking, singing, every combination of everything I could think of. Everyone would tell us, "take him for a ride in the car, take him for a ride in the stroller, take him for a walk in the wrap. " Yeah, those were fun additions to our 3 hour bedtime routine. It is so hard to explain to someone who has never experienced it how difficult it is to deal with.

Phew, sorry about that! Anywho, here is our story. DS woke up about every 45 minutes his whole first year of life. At 15 months, I moved him to a single bed stuck between our bed and the wall. I needed SOME sort of space from him as he was ripping my hair out, biting, pinching, and pulling at my clothes all night otherwise. He actually started sleeping a little better then, and then even better when we kicked DH out of the room. He is a noisy rolling around sort of sleeper, and he and DS keep eachother up. Shortly after that I got preggers and absolutely HAD to night wean him because it was EXCRUCIATING to nurse him. It was that or throw him out the window. I have to say, it was much MUCH easier than I imagined. He was 19 mo when he weaned fully, and by then he was down to one predictable 2 hour nap. At 2, he dropped the nap completely and goes to bed at 7 sharp with NO FIGHT WHATSOEVER. Even now, 6 months later, I am still in shock when it only takes 10 minutes to put him to sleep.

I guess all this is just to say that I sympathise, and that it has gotten worlds better for us, although he does still wake 2-3x per night, and it all started happening about two months away from where you are now. I really hope it gets better for you soon.


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## curiouscanadian (Aug 28, 2009)

Aw mama, those nights are so tough! I skimmed a lot of the other responses but I just wanted to say that my 13mo. old DS has also done this to us a few times, and I do NOT believe it was intentional or manipulative. Rather, I think he had an issue neither DH or I could identify or help with and he was tired enough that he was just mad that he couldn't get to sleep.

He too is a hardcore sleep-resister (although we're lucky and he doesn't wake too often at night), but a couple nights we had the same thing happen. Total screaming fit, where nothing seemed to help one bit, not even usual sure-fire methods. We EC so I suspected he either had to poop or just had bad gas (although in the moment I was all but sure of anything!), but he was so angry at not being able to sleep that he couldn't calm down enough to let us help him.

Eventually the one night it got so bad that I put him in my carrier and went out for a walk around the block at 11pm (he normally goes to bed between 7-8pm, 9pm at the absolute latest). I just couldn't think of anything else to do. He was screaming his head off, but anytime either DH or I tried to hold him/rock him/nurse him he'd fight so bad I was afraid someone was going to get hurt by accident. Luckily the change of scene calmed him down enough & the position/movement of the carrier helped work out a HUGE fart while we were walking. Once we got home he nursed to sleep relatively easily.

I guess all this is to say that NO, I don't believe he's being manipulative. It's really tough in the moment when you reach the point of "WHY WON'T YOU LET US HELP YOU!", but I believe it's just something they don't understand and then they get tired and unable to deal at all with the issue. This is when tag-teaming with DH is essential and I have to dig deep into my belief that crying is his way of communicating and that it's important that I stay nearby so at least he knows I'm listening and trying (if not understanding).

On a slightly different note I also looked at what he'd eaten for supper those nights and discovered an interesting coincidence of a lot of meat & strawberries for desert, so I try to avoid either of these instances now.

Anyway mama, I hope something in here helps.


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## Luke's mama (Sep 29, 2009)

I had some real battles with my ds around 8-13 mos or so on and off--at night time he would just want to play. He is not trained to go to sleep on his own, so putting him in the crib didn't work: he would always stand up, etc. I couldn't lie down with him on the bed because he would struggle to get up and start crawling all over it. Couldn't even rock him because he would start to climb the rungs of the rocker. The only thing I could do was hold him tightly (sometimes in pouch sling when he was too heavy to carry) and walk back and forth in a room or outside until he went to sleep--sometimes ten minutes, sometimes (ok, one time) over an hour. I felt really frustrated and kept thinking about CIO but never could bring myself to do it. But with keeping at it and trying to make a clear schedule with the bedtime routine and repeated mention aloud about night night and time to sleep and go to bed it has really gotten much easier. He is less willing to detach from me, I think, so it takes longer when I put him to sleep (now I turn down lights and walk with him while singing in the bedroom) than DH, but is mostly ok these days with of course some exceptions for difficult days.

One thing I am not sure about but wondering, could it be that more solids would fill him up more and help him sleep longer stretches? Just a thought.

Good luck--it seems like most of these frustrating periods are stages that pass within a month or so.

I know sanctomommy pointed out this doesn't work for every baby, but getting a stroller and giving him a ride after lunch or whenever it was time for nap has really helped him to fall asleep during the day when the time is right (and eliminated me wondering "WHEN are you going to nap???).


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## LeoneLover13 (Jun 30, 2009)

I really don't know how helpful I'll be but your situation sounds at least a little similar to mine. I've made my share of posts on here about how I simply cannot take anymore, that I have one the "bad" sleepers who still consistently wakes every 30 mins to an hr some nights.

DD will be 1 next weekend and the day she turned 6 months night time got really hard. She is most certainly a high needs baby, and I am only recently starting to figure her out. If she is teething however, I don't have a chance in heck of trying tot figure her out at night, and just have to suck it up for a few nights.

I have used NCSS also with no luck. The 'catching them at the first sign of sleepiness' does not work us, she must be tired, rubbing her eyes, yawning a lot, asking to nurse, starting to get cranky etc. Then I go on a walk with her in the Mei Tai for anywhere from 30 mins to an hour. If she falls asleep, I jet my sweaty butt back home to get her in bed whilst she's still in that first 30 mins of 'limp limb asleep' and hope and pray no dogs bark at me on my way home..
If she doesn't fall asleep at all, then at least that hour long walk, warm, dark and quiet has settled her 'sensor-ly' and then i'll let her quiet play with no tv, in a dim room until she is obviously ready to sleep.
One thing that has made my nights easier lately, is switching her to one long nap a day..the morning is really hard to get her all the way through til noon, but as soon as she nurses around noon she's out and I'll let her sleep on the bed, couch, where ever she'll sleep longest.

Just some ideas that have been working for me so far..I hope you are able to figure something out...and let us know what works for you!


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

I don't know if this is part of the equation for you, but after my oldest turned a year, I overheard someone talking about how their young one had trouble sleeping and was fussy and nursed constantly like Abigail did, especially throughout the night. They said they found their babe suffered from acid-reflux and the nursing soothed the esophagus, but the fuller tummy added to the problem, creating a vicious cycle. They said it was easily treated with antacids for babies. If I had known.... I may have had better rest.


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## Bird Girl (Mar 12, 2007)

I just wanted to say that my DD was the same when she was a baby--fought sleep, and fought much harder when I tried to nurse her or lay down with her. Finally, we realized that she simply did better when she was allowed to sleep in her own room, in her own bed. We went through the bedtime routine, I rocked and nursed her, and then I laid her in the crib. She would sometimes fuss, but she didn't really cry or scream, and then she would go to sleep. And she would stay asleep; she slept through the night completely after only a week in her own room.

She's seven today, and she's still the best sleeper of my two kids. (My younger child was a more typical co-sleeper and cuddle bug.) Some people just don't like being touched and cuddled when they are tired--I'm that way myself, so it's perfectly possible that a baby can be that way, too.


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## terrabella (Oct 19, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LadyCatherine185* 
What do you think? Is he really old enough to be manipulating us?

Of course! It's what babies do.







It's a survival instinct. They are vulnerable and can not tend to their own needs. They have to use manipulation to insure that they are fed, kept warm, held/carried (safety), and etc.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Purity♥Lake~* 
Maybe he's not. Maybe what he is protesting is how icky his body feels when he's tired. He feels miserable and has no clue how to make that feeling go away.











Quote:


Originally Posted by *LadyCatherine185* 
This could be.. But if he feels icky why won't he let us comfort him and help him feel better?

















Sometimes you just don't want others to make it better. You *do* but you *don't*. KWIM? And I can get pretty unbearable when I'm sleep deprived, myself.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *LadyCatherine185* 
I have tried catching him before he is tired, and the fighting is worse. I don't 'let' him miss a nap, he misses one when he fights me too much and I just can't get him to sleep and I give up after wasting an hour trying to get him to sleep.









I totally understand! I always give a little







when I hear/read that. Catch what exactly? My kids will not go to sleep unless they're tired.







Trying to put them to sleep before that point is, well, pointless. They'll just start off playing, and then it will all end in tears anyway.

The only thing that comes to mind, is wearing him. My youngest is like that. She'll only sleep on me, or in bed with me. There is no putting her to bed around here. She's my second to be that way, while my other two could easily be put to bed.







in fact my youngest is sleeping on my back right now, so that I can surf, rather than go to bed before I'm ready.


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Purity♥Lake~* 
I don't know if this is part of the equation for you, but after my oldest turned a year, I overheard someone talking about how their young one had trouble sleeping and was fussy and nursed constantly like Abigail did, especially throughout the night. They said they found their babe suffered from acid-reflux and the nursing soothed the esophagus, but the fuller tummy added to the problem, creating a vicious cycle. They said it was easily treated with antacids for babies. If I had known.... I may have had better rest.

He actually did have reflux as a smaller baby (screamed and screamed while nursing...), and was on Prevacid for awhile (which did alleviate the screaming)... His sleep was no better then, though.









Thanks Mamas for the replies. It is nice to know we aren't the only ones dealing with this. I have been able to suck it up and deal for the most part, but it is hard when DH is insinsting we be more "strict" with him about bedtime (never leaving him alone to CIO though) and that he is just trying to play games with us.... We have tossed around the idea of nightweaning, but honestly it is the easiest way to get him back to sleep when he wakes up, and I have a feeling it won't stop the wakings.....


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## alfabetsoup (Jun 13, 2005)

When my DD1 was that age, she started not wanting to be rocked/jiggled/bounced anymore, so I started nursing her lying down and if she didn't drift off nursing, she would cuddle up and roll around a little and drop off to sleep. DD2 is a sleep fighter, also, and she does not like to be cuddled to sleep. She has her paci, we have a little cuddle and rock in the rocking chair, and then she pushes away and I put her in her crib. That's how she likes to sleep--we have never done CIO and would happily co-sleep with her but she wants to be alone. You might try lying down with your son or putting him down and staying with him to see if he would prefer that.

I've also found that at this age my babies have thrived on a predictable schedule for eating and sleeping. I wouldn't schedule breastfeeds but would definitely offer him 3 meals + snacks at regular times and let him decide if he wants to eat or not, and I would drop the morning nap and just have him on one nap a day. DD2 is 14mo, her schedule looks like this (she is no longer bfing though):

7:30 wake up, eat breakfast asap--cereal, oatmeal, waffles, fruit
9:30 or 10 milk, small snack of raisins or oatmeal cookie
11:15 lunch
11:45 nap
3:30 wake up, snack of cheese, crackers, fruit, etc
5:30 dinner
7:00 milk
8:00 bed

This isn't a rigid schedule, we have a lot going on so have to be flexible, but it works really well for DD2. It seems the earlier they eat lunch and dinner, the happier they are, for some reason. If your DS is getting antsy around 6 or so, he might be hungry, even if he refuses the breast--my girls both started liking to have something besides breastmilk once they knew they could. It didn't effect bfing for DD1 (DD2 a whole different story.)

ETA: just reading that back it looks like a lot of food but she only eats a little at a time and she's very active so needs all the calories she can get!


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alfabetsoup* 
When my DD1 was that age, she started not wanting to be rocked/jiggled/bounced anymore, so I started nursing her lying down and if she didn't drift off nursing, she would cuddle up and roll around a little and drop off to sleep. DD2 is a sleep fighter, also, and she does not like to be cuddled to sleep. She has her paci, we have a little cuddle and rock in the rocking chair, and then she pushes away and I put her in her crib. That's how she likes to sleep--we have never done CIO and would happily co-sleep with her but she wants to be alone. You might try lying down with your son or putting him down and staying with him to see if he would prefer that.

I've also found that at this age my babies have thrived on a predictable schedule for eating and sleeping. I wouldn't schedule breastfeeds but would definitely offer him 3 meals + snacks at regular times and let him decide if he wants to eat or not, and I would drop the morning nap and just have him on one nap a day. DD2 is 14mo, her schedule looks like this (she is no longer bfing though):

7:30 wake up, eat breakfast asap--cereal, oatmeal, waffles, fruit
9:30 or 10 milk, small snack of raisins or oatmeal cookie
11:15 lunch
11:45 nap
3:30 wake up, snack of cheese, crackers, fruit, etc
5:30 dinner
7:00 milk
8:00 bed

This isn't a rigid schedule, we have a lot going on so have to be flexible, but it works really well for DD2. It seems the earlier they eat lunch and dinner, the happier they are, for some reason. If your DS is getting antsy around 6 or so, he might be hungry, even if he refuses the breast--my girls both started liking to have something besides breastmilk once they knew they could. It didn't effect bfing for DD1 (DD2 a whole different story.)

ETA: just reading that back it looks like a lot of food but she only eats a little at a time and she's very active so needs all the calories she can get!

Well he has always always hated being rocked/jiggled, etc to sleep. It isn't something new at all. I have been nursing him on the bed laying down for the last few months but he will roll around and try to play, so I pick him up and hold him for a minute while he screams, then try to nurse again, repeat repeat until he finally goes to sleep. He won't go to sleep on his own either.

I have tried having a loose routine to the day as far as sleeping/eating goes. He is still about 80% BF'ed, he shows little interest in solids. I offer snacks and meals very frequently and he does not eat more than a bite or two..

Maybe I will try letting him only have one nap a day everyday. But when he wakes up at 5:30-6 in the morning, he is usually ready for a nap at 9-10 and then by the afternoon is a mess if he doesn't get another nap.. Maybe I could just keep pushing the nap back and stay out of the house so he stays busy...


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

This might not be what you want to hear, but this is what we do.

I have a sleep fighter (he is younger though, and doesn't wake as much as yours) and we just wait until he falls asleep







He's tired before then, and *could* go to sleep, but he doesn't want to and he refuses to. He'll scream and cry and fuss and fight and throw himself around in my arms, so I gave up on putting him to sleep when he got 'tired' and started putting him to sleep when he was ready to go to sleep. It ended to fights to sleep, and it made our lives alot easier.

Now when we notice Lincoln getting tired, I'll nurse him, and if he's not going to sleep then we sit on the floor and play with him until he looks tired again. Then I'll nurse him and he'll usually go to sleep. Sometimes he rally's for a long time, but the more he wears himself out the better he sleeps at night.

I would just stop fighting it with him. If he doesn't want to go to sleep then he's probably just not ready. I know that I always think Lincoln is ready, but if he's not going to sleep I don't force it - too much stress for me, which makes him more of a mess.


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thyra* 
This might not be what you want to hear, but this is what we do.

I have a sleep fighter (he is younger though, and doesn't wake as much as yours) and we just wait until he falls asleep







He's tired before then, and *could* go to sleep, but he doesn't want to and he refuses to. He'll scream and cry and fuss and fight and throw himself around in my arms, so I gave up on putting him to sleep when he got 'tired' and started putting him to sleep when he was ready to go to sleep. It ended to fights to sleep, and it made our lives alot easier.

Now when we notice Lincoln getting tired, I'll nurse him, and if he's not going to sleep then we sit on the floor and play with him until he looks tired again. Then I'll nurse him and he'll usually go to sleep. Sometimes he rally's for a long time, but the more he wears himself out the better he sleeps at night.

I would just stop fighting it with him. If he doesn't want to go to sleep then he's probably just not ready. I know that I always think Lincoln is ready, but if he's not going to sleep I don't force it - too much stress for me, which makes him more of a mess.

This is actually what I have been doing for the most part.. I just wait until he wears himself out so much that he can't fight it anymore..









It is just frusterating when he is SO TIRED but still fighting it.. Like, he won't just play he is extremely fussy but won't go to sleep either. And DH thinks he is manipulating us when he won't go to sleep even when he is tired.... _sigh_..

Most of the time I can deal with it and handle it just fine.. but then there are those days/nights when it just gets too much. Like yesterday we planned to go to the fair after he had a nap... well, he usually takes a nap by 11 at the LATEST, and yesterday he didn't go down until 1!!! So we missed the fair which was frustrating.... And then other evening when he was so so tired but jsut screamed when we tried to get him to sleep... And then there are the days when he has had a horrible night the night before and I am tired and want to nap with him but he just wants to roll around on the bed and play and as soon as we go into the other room to play he gets fussy again and rubs his eyes and says "nigh-night nigh-night"....

I guess my DH's concern is when he is even older and bigger/stronger and if he is still a sleep fighter.. what would we do with a 2-3-4 year old who won't go to sleep!?


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## accountclosed2 (May 28, 2007)

As you say that _he has always been fighting sleep_, I think he might be a bit like DD. She is 19 months, and needs a lot of help to go to sleep, always has. But she's not manipulating us! She's desperate to sleep, that is obvious know she actually both signs and talks. She'll sign sleep, ask for teddy, say bed and bring us upstairs. But going to sleep, on the other hand... The smoothest and fastest is still breastfeeding to sleep, usually only takes about 20 min, at the right time. Otherwise we read stories, sing songs, pat her back, shsh, and sometimes DH watches something like Oz & James (winetours of France and US, and a drinking tour of Britain, not drunkness, but more wine appreciation) on a tiny little player-thingy in bed (







). Sometimes it works, most of the time I still end up feeding her.

Once her cries escalate there's no return. There is no use trying to force a hysterical child to go to sleep, what she needs most right them is help to calm down so that she _can_ settle to sleep!


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LadyCatherine185* 
This is actually what I have been doing for the most part.. I just wait until he wears himself out so much that he can't fight it anymore..









It is just frusterating when he is SO TIRED but still fighting it.. Like, he won't just play he is extremely fussy but won't go to sleep either. And DH thinks he is manipulating us when he won't go to sleep even when he is tired.... _sigh_..

Most of the time I can deal with it and handle it just fine.. but then there are those days/nights when it just gets too much. Like yesterday we planned to go to the fair after he had a nap... well, he usually takes a nap by 11 at the LATEST, and yesterday he didn't go down until 1!!! So we missed the fair which was frustrating.... And then other evening when he was so so tired but jsut screamed when we tried to get him to sleep... And then there are the days when he has had a horrible night the night before and I am tired and want to nap with him but he just wants to roll around on the bed and play and as soon as we go into the other room to play he gets fussy again and rubs his eyes and says "nigh-night nigh-night"....

I guess my DH's concern is when he is even older and bigger/stronger and if he is still a sleep fighter.. what would we do with a 2-3-4 year old who won't go to sleep!?

I know what you mean! When Lincoln gets to the point of fighting so hard that he's screaming and crying, we give him a bath! Even if he already had one. It distracts him, and he LOVES his baths, so the second he's in the warm water he calms right down - like screaming hysterically to laughing in milliseconds. Really, its hilarious. Then, he starts crying after we take him out, cries while we get him diapered and dressed, and then nurses to sleep in no time at all. Have you tried a nighttime bath when he's really really fighting? Does Liam like his baths?


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## InMediasRes (May 18, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LadyCatherine185* 

I guess my DH's concern is when he is even older and bigger/stronger and if he is still a sleep fighter.. what would we do with a 2-3-4 year old who won't go to sleep!?

Yes, but when he is older/bigger/stronger, he will also be in a better rhythm and will understand that dark = sleep. You can make rules about no talking/playing, about staying in the bed, etc. And eventually they will get that. Until DS dropped his nap, he was a 10:30 bedtime kid, and he would fight for hours before he would fall asleep, but he would never play or get out of the bed. He would just talk and roll around and have a hard time getting comfy. I think he's just like my DH in that he has a very difficult time turning off his brain to sleep unless his body is so exhausted that he's past that "point of no return". I keep telling DH that no one expects _him_ to go to bed at a certain time (he usually isn't in bed before 2 AM), so we shouldn't really expect our son to just magically fall asleep at 8 PM unless he is spent.

Hang in there. It will get better.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LadyCatherine185* 
It is just frustrating when he is SO TIRED but still fighting it.. Like, he won't just play he is extremely fussy but won't go to sleep either. And DH thinks he is manipulating us when he won't go to sleep even when he is tired.... _sigh_..

I guess my DH's concern is when he is even older and bigger/stronger and if he is still a sleep fighter.. what would we do with a 2-3-4 year old who won't go to sleep!?

The way my 4 year old sleeps now is nothing like how she slept at a year old or at two years old.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LadyCatherine185* 
He has always needed a lot of parenting to get to sleep. He never goes to sleep willingly, unless he is completely exhausted and just crashes, and always always fights it.. either by trying to play, or fussing and pushing us away, etc.

Tonight I nursed him, and he didn't nurse great, and started biting (he's getting some molars, and when he is teething he tends to bite) so I assumed he was done nursing. Then DH came in to get him to sleep (the past month or so, he has only been going to sleep for Daddy) and DS started fighting it bad. Then he started crying really hard, and screaming. After about a minute or so I went back there and tried to get DH to give up for now. He wouldn't. He asked me to give him 5 more minutes, so I did, and DS screamed bloody murder the whole time (with DH holding him).









I re read your posts trying to think of what might help you or to see if I missed something. The biting sounds like what Sophia would do when she was over tired. Her jaw would also do this vibrating/repeated biting action when she'd be really tired and begin to drift off which resulted in tiny nibbles on my nipples, and I'd react with an 'ow' and she'd startle awake and immediate suckle, whether she was properly latched at that point or not. It could also have to do with his teething. Have you tried giving him ice cubes wrapped in a washcloth to munch on at night time?

I'm also wondering, even though your DH helps with putting your son to sleep, maybe at this time, that is not what your son needs. Perhaps he's just fighting being passed from mom to dad. With his teething, maybe he finds more comfort with mom than dad for now. I almost see a pattern where your son is playing with you, then screaming with dad. When he's playing, have you got the lights on? Are you interacting lots with the play, or just watching?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LadyCatherine185* 
I am not asking for him to not need help to get to sleep. It is the fighting the help (biting me, not wanting to nurse, pushing away when we try to rock, etc) that is wearing on us.

Abigail was so needy and clingy and touchy and needed constant physical contact, rubbing my arms, my ears, my hair in order to fall asleep. Then Sophia comes along and I try to lay my arm over her and she'd push my arm off of her. Later, when I'd just be watching her fall asleep next to me in bed, I'd brush her hair out of her eyes, or hold her hand, and she'd yell 'Stop It!' and roll away with her back to me. She cannot fall asleep with the touching. It is so different from Abigail. This might be your son. Perhaps the rocking, holding, etc. is just too much for him and keeps waking him up, or maybe just taking away his relaxation.


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Purity♥Lake~* 
The way my 4 year old sleeps now is nothing like how she slept at a year old or at two years old.

*Thank you, that is very reassuring!!*

I re read your posts trying to think of what might help you or to see if I missed something. The biting sounds like what Sophia would do when she was over tired. Her jaw would also do this vibrating/repeated biting action when she'd be really tired and begin to drift off which resulted in tiny nibbles on my nipples, and I'd react with an 'ow' and she'd startle awake and immediate suckle, whether she was properly latched at that point or not. It could also have to do with his teething. Have you tried giving him ice cubes wrapped in a washcloth to munch on at night time?

I'm also wondering, even though your DH helps with putting your son to sleep, maybe at this time, that is not what your son needs. Perhaps he's just fighting being passed from mom to dad. With his teething, maybe he finds more comfort with mom than dad for now. I almost see a pattern where your son is playing with you, then screaming with dad. When he's playing, have you got the lights on? Are you interacting lots with the play, or just watching?

*I think you are right on him wanting Mama now because of the teeth. For most of his life he has wanted mama, but the last month or so he would only go to sleep for DH. He'd nurse in bed and then start asking for "Dada Ni-night" and then DH would hold him on the bed and he'd go to sleep....
When I am trying to get him to sleep, the lights are off, there is a white-noise fan, I do not engage him, I lay him back down and say "Liam, it is time for ni-night"..... he does finally get the message and nurse to sleep, but this is always after some time, unless, as I said before, he is completely wiped.*

Abigail was so needy and clingy and touchy and needed constant physical contact, rubbing my arms, my ears, my hair in order to fall asleep. Then Sophia comes along and I try to lay my arm over her and she'd push my arm off of her. Later, when I'd just be watching her fall asleep next to me in bed, I'd brush her hair out of her eyes, or hold her hand, and she'd yell 'Stop It!' and roll away with her back to me. She cannot fall asleep with the touching. It is so different from Abigail. This might be your son. Perhaps the rocking, holding, etc. is just too much for him and keeps waking him up, or maybe just taking away his relaxation.

*He has always been the type to not want excessive touching, caressing, etc. He does not like to be rubbed at all. Usually when he does fall asleep, he will nurse and then roll away from me really fast and then be asleep. But at the same time he does need me there, and he does need to be 'forced' to sleep. It is a catch 22 I'm afraid..







*

bolded my answers


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## Blueone (Sep 12, 2009)

My son is a sleep fighter and he's 2 months. What I found helped at night was a regular bath before bed. He eats, takes a bath, then goes down. He'll fight a little, but the bath relaxed him. If he's stressed though he'll give a good cry, then go to sleep. He was like that yesterday after being at an overwhelmingly loud church potluck.

So maybe give that a try, it might relax him. Follow that with a short lotion massage. Sometimes they just need to cry, it's hard to here, especially when supporting them, but it helps them get all the pent up stress out. I doubt he's manipulating you though. I did like the suggestion of trying to put him in his own bed. Some kids do better that way, especially if they wake easily and are light sleepers.


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Blueone* 
My son is a sleep fighter and he's 2 months. What I found helped at night was a regular bath before bed. He eats, takes a bath, then goes down. He'll fight a little, but the bath relaxed him. If he's stressed though he'll give a good cry, then go to sleep. He was like that yesterday after being at an overwhelmingly loud church potluck.

So maybe give that a try, it might relax him. Follow that with a short lotion massage. Sometimes they just need to cry, it's hard to here, especially when supporting them, but it helps them get all the pent up stress out. I doubt he's manipulating you though. I did like the suggestion of trying to put him in his own bed. Some kids do better that way, especially if they wake easily and are light sleepers.

Thanks for the advice about the bath and massage, though the though of us trying to give Liam a massage kinda makes me







... He would not sit still long enough! I can't really put him in his own bed at this point, as he wakes hourly most nights and we wouldn't get any sleep.

I hope you are not saying you let your LO cry alone to sleep? At 2 months Liam went to sleep relatively easily as long as I nursed/rocked him. I think when he was around 4-5 months he started really fighting it.


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## SeekingJoy (Apr 30, 2007)

Catie, I just caught this thread.









DS was still fighting sleep at 1 (and 2), but sometime around 2.5 he really had huge improvements. It got even better around 3.5. At almost 4, he is a totally different sleeper. As a side note, the sensory issues have also improved. Things will get better for Liam.

DS still has to be bounced to sleep (with blackout curtains and a white noise machine) in order to fall asleep. And honestly, he wiggles and giggles for a while at first. I don't really see this as manipulation even at 4. He is being fairly direct in his communication that he isn't totally ready for bed yet. Physically tired, yes. Mentally or emotionally there yet, not always. For him, it is a sign that he needs more emotional connection. And, sometimes he has a strong preference for reconnecting with one parent or the other. We honor this preference when we can. Either way we tell stories and talk through his day. As long as we keep it playful, he eventually settles, we bounce and he sleeps. through. the. night.


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## Blueone (Sep 12, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LadyCatherine185* 
Thanks for the advice about the bath and massage, though the though of us trying to give Liam a massage kinda makes me







... He would not sit still long enough! I can't really put him in his own bed at this point, as he wakes hourly most nights and we wouldn't get any sleep.

I hope you are not saying you let your LO cry alone to sleep? At 2 months Liam went to sleep relatively easily as long as I nursed/rocked him. I think when he was around 4-5 months he started really fighting it.

No, no, not at all. I hold him if he's just crying and needs to let out stress. I only just let him cry if nothing else works such as feeding, rocking, diaper change, etc. I lay there with him and pat his back while talking in a soothing tone.

The massages I give him are really short. Just a lotion rub down the arms and legs and belly.


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Blueone* 
No, no, not at all. I hold him if he's just crying and needs to let out stress. I only just let him cry if nothing else works such as feeding, rocking, diaper change, etc. I lay there with him and pat his back while talking in a soothing tone.

The massages I give him are really short. Just a lotion rub down the arms and legs and belly.

Ok, so sorry I misunderstood! Baths usually do help, but he burned his foot really badly a week and a half ago, so we've been trying to keep his foot out of water for now so that it can dry out and heal.







I think we will revisit the nighttime bath, and more of a bedtime routine and maybe get some soothing-scented lotion and read some books (he just in the last week has been interested in reading books) before bed..... We definitely had a lot of crying-in-arms with Liam when he was littler and he was so overtired and just needed to let out a cry and there was nothing else we could do to soothe him. It's rough,


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SeekingJoy* 
Catie, I just caught this thread.









DS was still fighting sleep at 1 (and 2), but sometime around 2.5 he really had huge improvements. It got even better around 3.5. At almost 4, he is a totally different sleeper. As a side note, the sensory issues have also improved. Things will get better for Liam.

DS still has to be bounced to sleep (with blackout curtains and a white noise machine) in order to fall asleep. And honestly, he wiggles and giggles for a while at first. I don't really see this as manipulation even at 4. He is being fairly direct in his communication that he isn't totally ready for bed yet. Physically tired, yes. Mentally or emotionally there yet, not always. For him, it is a sign that he needs more emotional connection. And, sometimes he has a strong preference for reconnecting with one parent or the other. We honor this preference when we can. Either way we tell stories and talk through his day. As long as we keep it playful, he eventually settles, we bounce and he sleeps. through. the. night.










Thanks, H!! Knowing it *WILL* get better (even if it is a year or more from now) is very reassuring. That is awesome that he is STTN... ohhh I can't wait for that day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:

He is being fairly direct in his communication that he isn't totally ready for bed yet. Physically tired, yes. Mentally or emotionally there yet, not always. For him, it is a sign that he needs more emotional connection.
Thank you for that, that really put things in a different perspective for me.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LadyCatherine185* 
*He has always been the type to not want excessive touching, caressing, etc. He does not like to be rubbed at all. Usually when he does fall asleep, he will nurse and then roll away from me really fast and then be asleep. But at the same time he does need me there, and he does need to be 'forced' to sleep. It is a catch 22 I'm afraid..







*


I certainly sympathize with you there. When Sophia was around 12-15 months old, she was so hard to put to sleep. And she'd cry and I'd want to hug and comfort her and that just made her angry. I knew not to, but it was an automatic reaction to seeing her suffer. We did get through it, though. It was hard for me, emotionally, physically and I was so tired. Neither of my kids will go to 'bed' without me, but they will pass out on the couch, or grab a pillow and blanky and fall asleep on the living room floor while I'm still up, but usually they don't fall asleep now until we all go to bed. However, I have no problem with that. I don't keep a schedule and don't want to. As long as they get their 12+ hours of sleep at night (yes! they finally both sleep that long straight through), and I know they're rested, and for the most part that happens at night time, then I'm happy.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SeekingJoy* 
Catie, I just caught this thread.









DS was still fighting sleep at 1 (and 2), but sometime around 2.5 he really had huge improvements. It got even better around 3.5. At almost 4, he is a totally different sleeper. As a side note, the sensory issues have also improved. Things will get better for Liam.

DS still has to be bounced to sleep (with blackout curtains and a white noise machine) in order to fall asleep. And honestly, he wiggles and giggles for a while at first. I don't really see this as manipulation even at 4. He is being fairly direct in his communication that he isn't totally ready for bed yet. Physically tired, yes. Mentally or emotionally there yet, not always. For him, it is a sign that he needs more emotional connection. And, sometimes he has a strong preference for reconnecting with one parent or the other. We honor this preference when we can. Either way we tell stories and talk through his day. As long as we keep it playful, he eventually settles, we bounce and he sleeps. through. the. night.

















The first paragraph is what I have experienced with Abigail. (Sophia is only 3 still). I totally completely agree with the second paragraph. After our shower, sometimes my girls want to jump on the bed and play with Daddy, sometimes they want to read a book, sometimes they want to just cuddle up and sleep. They can be just as tired in each instance, but have different mental or emotional needs just then.


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LadyCatherine185* 
Ok, so sorry I misunderstood! Baths usually do help, but he burned his foot really badly a week and a half ago, so we've been trying to keep his foot out of water for now so that it can dry out and heal.







I think we will revisit the nighttime bath, and more of a bedtime routine and maybe get some soothing-scented lotion and read some books (he just in the last week has been interested in reading books) before bed..... We definitely had a lot of crying-in-arms with Liam when he was littler and he was so overtired and just needed to let out a cry and there was nothing else we could do to soothe him. It's rough,









Poor guy







Once his foot has healed, definitely re-visit the nightly baths - they help Lincoln SO much! It totally changes his mood, and he loves his nightly baths with daddy. And usually he goes to sleep right after it ends. I hope Liam's little foot heals up really quick!!


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## justKate (Jun 10, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Purity♥Lake~* 
I don't know if this is part of the equation for you, but after my oldest turned a year, I overheard someone talking about how their young one had trouble sleeping and was fussy and nursed constantly like Abigail did, especially throughout the night. They said they found their babe suffered from acid-reflux and the nursing soothed the esophagus, but the fuller tummy added to the problem, creating a vicious cycle. They said it was easily treated with antacids for babies. If I had known.... I may have had better rest.

I haven't had time to read all of the responses, but I'm following the thread for my own (almost 8 month old) sleep fighter. She too is very sensitive and high-needs, and reacts to my attempts to put her down the same way your LO does.

I wanted to say that we've recently re-started baby Prevacid for the same reason the above poster mentioned--I'm trying to rule out medical causes of poor sleep. She took it for a few months after she was born, then stopped because she seemed alright...

I've also found that when she has an ear infection, the ONLY symptom she has is a terrible night or two of painful scream-waking, IYKWIM.

I know those things have already been mentioned, so otherwise I just wanted to offer a









*ETA just saw your Prevacid post.* Nevermind that!


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## Nillarilla (Nov 20, 2007)

My DD is a sleep fighter and sometimes fights and thrashes to the point where she can't be held. Sometimes she has to be put down to cry. She's never left alone crying and usually I have a hand on her. What sometimes helps me is to hold her arms down gently on the bed and she relaxes almost immediately when I do this.
Our bedtime routine/sleep signals are like this:
Jammies and night diaper
snapped into grobag lying down in sidecarred crib
read story lying down
nursies
Give blankie and paci
turn out lights and turn on fan (the white noise really helps)
Sometimes I will pick her up mostly though I just lay beside her.
If she starts thrashing around and pulling the paci out and crying I replace the paci and blankie and put her arms by her sides and gently hold her on the bed.


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