# boys peeing outside in public



## bettysmom

Hello ... There's a phenomenon that bothers me a little, and I'd like to know if it's just me. DD and I attend a playgroup that meets at a playground when it's nice out. Very often, potty-trained toddler boys will walk over to a tree, take their pants and Pull-Ups all the way down, and let 'er rip. Sometimes, they do this on their own, and their mothers kind of shrug and giggle. Sometimes, the mothers guide them to do this.

Last week, a boy was on the swing, his mother said, "Oh, do you need to pee?" and walked him over to the tree like this was perfectly natural, and like this was the appropriate place to go. It didn't seem to be an accident kind of situation, like it was either tree or wet pants. There is no restroom actually at the playground, but there are local businesses right across the street with clean restrooms and nice staff. When this one boy depantsed and peed on the tree, two or three other boys wanted to do it, too. So there was a little peeing circle. FWIW, the mom of one of the boys was irritated, too, because she doesn't like her DS to do this and wished the first mom hadn't encouraged it.

Then my DD wandered over, despite my attempts to redirect her, and she didn't get why she couldn't do it, too, and then she saw her friend's penis and was very curious. That part's OK -- I suppose she had to see one sometime, but I just wasn't prepared for it (though I guess few parents are prepared for that first big "reveal" of the opposite gender's "parts").

I'm not sure quite what bothers me about the scenario. Maybe the public nature of it? The trees are near a fence, and the fence does not obscure the view from an alley, an apartment complex, and a park that is usually full of adults. Sometimes there are suspicious people hanging around. I guess I wonder whether parents should be teaching their boys (or girls,for that matter) that it's OK to just whip it out in such a public place. Also, except in a total emergency, isn't it a bit counterproductive to potty train but then encourage/reinforce peeing outside? And I have to admit, part of my irritation was that DD saw an activity that looked like fun, but she couldn't join in -- I know she'll learn someday that boys stand up and girls squat, but it felt like a weirdly sad moment for her!

What do you think of this? Should boys just fire away in public outdoor places, or should parents try to teach them to announce their need soon enough that they can get to an actual toilet? And am I just a prude?


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## the_lissa

I don't think people should pee in public generally. However, I have helped my dd pee in public on several occasions when we were not near a bathroom and she wouldn't have been able to hold it. Of course we pee outside when camping, hiking, etc.


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## birdie22

I do this with my ds. I hope nobody in my neighborhood feels as you do. I certainly don't mean to offend anyone!

If there's no toilet at the playground-- or if the toilet provided is actually worse than going in the bushes-- it just seems logical to me. I would not go into a store because their facilities are for customers. They are not there to be the official playground restrooms, KWIM?

The moms in my group actively approve, because it's helpful in initiating potty training for some of the boys. If one's peeing, somebody else in diapers might come over and get the idea he can do that too. It just so happens that the four moms who get together all happen to have boys.

Admittedly, it's harder for girls. There have been moments on the playground when me and my pregnant bladder have wished it was so easy!


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## Twocoolboys

I don't see a problem with it and have actually encouraged my boys to pee outside too. They only do it when there are no other facilities around and when it is an emergency. Of course, with a just potty-trained toddler, it is usually an emergency - lol.

We were at my older son's soccer game last spring when the port-a-potty that was provided was disgusting. We usually use those if they are there with no problem, but this one had feces smeared on the walls. No way was I going to insist on my guys using that for modesty. They both peed behind it.

I agree with the pp - the restrooms in the businesses across the street are for their customers.


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## ThreeBeans

It's completely inappropriate unless it's an emergency. We've had to let DS go a few times in that case...once when he was just training and we were twenty miles from the nearest building, and he needed to go. We pulled over, hid behind some bushes and watered a tree.

Parents should absolutely not be encouraging their children to whip it out at a playground for no good reason. And if an emergency situation exists, a courteous parent will make some effort to shield the child from view.


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## nabigus

Before having a potty training ds, I would have thought it was a little bizarre, maybe even a little icky. But now... absolutely, ds pees on a tree all the time, every time, multiple times a day. There are just no bathrooms--public, private, whatever--near any of the playgrounds. If there were, we'd use them. We also have a little travel potty, but since we walk everywhere, it's just one more thing to carry. I figure, well, about a gazillion dogs use the park, so it's not like there being pee on trees is because of local toddlers. (no, no, I'm not comparing my ds to a dog.







) Since it's part of hte culture of the playground, we never get strange looks or comments, ever.

And ds totally gets the difference between being at the park and peeing on a tree and being at home and peeing in the potty, never once has he had confusion about that.


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## wannabe

That is disgusting.

I used to work with men who did this, and it was revolting, and so very very inappropriate. It's up there with ECing in your seat on a plane. NOT OK!

Quote:

If there's no toilet at the playground-- or if the toilet provided is actually worse than going in the bushes-- it just seems logical to me. I would not go into a store because their facilities are for customers. They are not there to be the official playground restrooms, KWIM?
So you do it too, then? What about at the supermarket, just drop your pants and wee outside the front door?


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## bettysmom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
Parents should absolutely not be encouraging their children to whip it out at a playground for no good reason. And if an emergency situation exists, a courteous parent will make some effort to shield the child from view.

I'm with you there ... that's part of the problem I have with the public peeing, too. There's no effort to shield, and there are often adults without children sitting on benches in plain view. To my mind, peeing in one's own secluded yard or behind some type of cover is different from doing so in a very public urban area. I was similarly bothered over the summer when 2 1/2-year-old twin girls would routinely strip off bottoms as well as tops and then walk across the playground to the fountain. I don't want to teach DD to be ashamed of her body, but I'm inclined to be more cautious about this type of behavior in public.


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## bettysmom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nabigus* 
Before having a potty training ds, I would have thought it was a little bizarre, maybe even a little icky. But now... absolutely, ds pees on a tree all the time, every time, multiple times a day. There are just no bathrooms--public, private, whatever--near any of the playgrounds. If there were, we'd use them.

You're right that my perspective could very well change once DD is a little more into the potty learning and I realize how hard it is to get to a restroom in time!


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## bettysmom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *birdie22* 
If there's no toilet at the playground-- or if the toilet provided is actually worse than going in the bushes-- it just seems logical to me. I would not go into a store because their facilities are for customers. They are not there to be the official playground restrooms, KWIM?

Yes ... which is why many parents take their DCs to the toilet there and then buy an iced tea, water, whatever, on the way out. The businesses in question are cafes/bakeries/restaurants, not stores. I know that's not always ideal, though -- maybe you have no cash on you that day, really don't want/need anything, etc. Ideal, of course, would be clean, safe, free restrooms everywhere!


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## Laggie

I don't have a problem with it at all. My only issue is, why can't the girls do it too?

But then, I consider being able to pee outside an essential skill that nobody should arrive at adulthood without. YMMV.


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## bettysmom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Laggie* 
I don't have a problem with it at all. My only issue is, why can't the girls do it too?

Because even if I were OK with DD exposing her genitalia in this very public area, I don't want to clean dribbled, unaimed pee off her pants, or her feet and legs if I took her pants all the way off! And the area with the trees is sandy, scrubby, sometimes littered on, and previously peed on by dogs and other children -- and I don't want to have to clean all of that out of her nooks and crannies if she squats rather than standing.


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## loraxc

I don't love this either. DD is in an almost all-boy playgroup, and has also witnessed this while looking vaguely mystified and put out. I sort of feel like the moms turn it into a "Tee hee, boys will be boys" thing. I am aware that boys often train later and with more difficulty, but still...if girls can survive without doing this, why can't boys? I dunno--I'm probably reaching, but I think this is how we get frat boys peeing in alleyways in public view, in the end.

We always use the potty before we go to the playground.


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## the_lissa

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bettysmom* 
Because even if I were OK with DD exposing her genitalia in this very public area, I don't want to clean dribbled, unaimed pee off her pants, or her feet and legs if I took her pants all the way off! And the area with the trees is sandy, scrubby, sometimes littered on, and previously peed on by dogs and other children -- and I don't want to have to clean all of that out of her nooks and crannies if she squats rather than standing.

That is why all girls should learn to pee outside. When I have taken my daughter pee outside in the event of an emergency, we have never had pee on her pants, feet, legs, or anything else. She squats and we have never had anything get on her either.


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## loraxc

I can pee outside just fine in an emergency and will teach DD, but not at age 3.


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## bettysmom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
I can pee outside just fine in an emergency and will teach DD, but not at age 3.

Likewise ... I certainly can if I really have to, and I'll teach DD, too, in case of emergency, but I think there's a difference between that and having it be an everyday, nonemergency-type habit.


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## pigpokey

Where I live if the park does not have a toilet, most moms will take the behind a tree approach particularly with boys. If my 2 year old is engaged in hard play, he will NOT be able to wait until we go that far once he announces. Best we go in the bushes (we do seek privacy where there is some) than it dribble down his legs onto the sidewalk.


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## the_lissa

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bettysmom* 
Likewise ... I certainly can if I really have to, and I'll teach DD, too, in case of emergency, but I think there's a difference between that and having it be an everyday, nonemergency-type habit.

Definitely. I think is bizarre and inappropriate for it to be done in an urban, non emergency situation.


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## the_lissa

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
I can pee outside just fine in an emergency and will teach DD, but not at age 3.

See I think it is more important at this age because of not being able to control her bladder as much as an older child or grown up.

We've had two emergency situations come up and my daughter is 3.5.


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## ABrez

Peeing outside for an adult can mean an indecent exposure misdemeanor. Because of this, I don't think it's a good habit to get into. I've turned down people for employment because of that charge. In the industry I'm it's the same as a sex offense.


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## thismama

I'm cool with it. Of course, I also let my daughter pee in public.

I notice *my* particular friends, who are generally progressive feminist mamas, are waaaay more uptight about their sons peeing or being naked in public than I am about my daughter doing the same. I am sure that is not the norm, though.

We only do it if it's an emergency, or if it's just really inconvenient to get to a bathroom. We obviously don't do it in concrete, populated areas... I'm thinking park, bicycle trail, etc.

About a month ago DD had to pee and I took her to the women's bathroom, but people were







in the stall next to us. They didn't even take a break while a freaking *3 year old* was in there, talking away. Gross.

I may be more inclined to avoid public bathrooms near the playground in future, and just let her go in the grass.


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## HollyBearsMom

All I can say is don't come to my house. At home my son will often sit up and yell "I gotta go peeeee" and then run outside and tinkle on a tree.







:

I grew up on the beach and there were never any bathrooms so I learned at a very early age to pee outside and never dribbled all over the place. Once you were at the beach it was 15 minute walk home and no kid would ever make it. Never mind the days we 4-wheeled then even if everyone agreed to leave the beach it could be an hour long BUMPY ride home. You dealt with it and went in the dunes.









Granted out in public peeing on a tree is a last resort and by now my son is old enough to give us warning and can hold it when needed. However on long trips where rest areas don't have bathrooms, parks with no facilities, and playgrounds with no public bathrooms then a tree it is.


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## attachedmamaof3

My boys and all of their friends did this. If DD wants to then she can cop a squat, too. I consider it minor. It's an innocent thing that they'll soon outgrow, not a big deal and IMO, certianly not "inappropriate, disgusting or gross". They're children for crying out loud.


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## thismama

I was watching my friend's son and he had to pee so ran over to a tree and pulled down his pants. I turned away to give him privacy, and when I turned back around literally only a few seconds later, my daughter had pulled down her pants and peed all over herself.

I thought that was pretty funny.


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## Alyantavid

Quote:

If there's no toilet at the playground-- or if the toilet provided is actually worse than going in the bushes-- it just seems logical to me. I would not go into a store because their facilities are for customers. They are not there to be the official playground restrooms, KWIM?
Same here. Although our playgrounds all have bathrooms. My son knows when and where he can go outside and there are very few of those places. If there is a bathroom available, that's where he goes, if not, well if you gotta go, you gotta go. If I had a girl, she'd do the same.


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## sleepnrain

Jumping in from the "new posts" list..

With little kids' bladder control, this is simply necessary sometimes, especially if you've got multiple kids in tow. Although to me it's the same for girls too.. All the little girls I know can pee standing up no problem. Their aim is as good as the boys'!


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## JBaxter

Mom of 3 boys and all of mine have done it as youngsters. When a 2 or 2 1/2 yr old boy says they have to pee that generally means 2 minutes ago. If we are at the park or yard the bushes are going to get watered.


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## missys__mom

If this is a regular occurrence in a particular park your playgroup goes to frequently, I would worry about child predators. There are all degrees of caring for your children, and teaching them to respect their bodies and to protect their bodies from other people is an important lesson. Any "dirty old man" could follow you home from the park. Your children can be very vulnerable if this is a regular occurrence. I'm no prude, but I also think children should be taught that their bodies belong to them and not to be shown to just anyone.


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## Jessy1019

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
That is why all girls should learn to pee outside. When I have taken my daughter pee outside in the event of an emergency, we have never had pee on her pants, feet, legs, or anything else. She squats and we have never had anything get on her either.

Same with Rylie. She pees outside at home all the time and never has any issues. I would let her do it in the park too, provided other kids were doing it. It's not ideal, but I wouldn't want to drag usall across the street and into a store just to use a bathroom.


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## oceanbaby

My have done this occasionally when there are no bathrooms in the immediate vicinity. But we take a lot of care to make sure it is completely out of the way, hidden behind a tree or bushes.

I don't think it has much relevance to grown men peeing outside. There are plenty of things that are appropriate when you are a kid that don't carry over into adulthood.

(And the difference between peeing outside and peeing on the floor of a store - does this really need to be answered? Is the answer not obvious?)


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## Peony

We do this all the time, and I only have DD's. DD1 peed outside tonight right after dance class, when you are fighting for 2 bathroom stalls and over 40 children, outside we go! It's a dirt lot that is shared with a construction company so it's not like we are in the middle of concrete and offices. I generally shield her when possible, opening the car doors, etc...

If there is a clean bathroom right there then we go in it, it one is not available then yes we pee outside. When DD1 says she has to go, we have 3 minutes before she HAS to go, that doesn't always give us enough time to find a bathroom.


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## NicaG

I understand why mothers allow their kids to do this. It's easy. But I think it's inappropriate. It's disrespectful of everyone else who has to see it going on, smell it later, explain to their own kids why they're not allowed to do the same, etc. etc. And where do we draw the line? Can 5-year-olds do it? How about 6? How about older? How about adults? I know there are lots of things that little kids can do that become inappropriate at older ages....but I think it's appropriate to teach children to respect public property and other citizens' feelings, and that means using a toilet, not any tree you feel like.


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## hottmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *attachedmamaof3* 
My boys and all of their friends did this. If DD wants to then she can cop a squat, too. I consider it minor. It's an innocent thing that they'll soon outgrow, not a big deal and IMO, certianly not "inappropriate, disgusting or gross". They're children for crying out loud.









:

My toddler has only been potty trained since August, so he often needs to pee NOW. I let him use a tree. My oldest is nearing 5 and he only pees outside now if there's no restroom available and he can't hold it, which isn't very often.


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## oceanbaby

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NicaG* 
I understand why mothers allow their kids to do this. It's easy. But I think it's inappropriate. It's disrespectful of everyone else who has to see it going on, smell it later, explain to their own kids why they're not allowed to do the same, etc. etc. And where do we draw the line? Can 5-year-olds do it? How about 6? How about older? How about adults? I know there are lots of things that little kids can do that become inappropriate at older ages....but I think it's appropriate to teach children to respect public property and other citizens' feelings, and that means using a toilet, not any tree you feel like.

It's not any tree you feel like. And it's only if there is no bathroom.

Lots of parents let their kids take their shoes off at the playground. I don't, and I deal with a lot of "but they have their shoes off." It never occured to me to blame the parents who allowed it of their kids. I just tell my kids that different families have different rules, and mine is that shoes stay on at the playground.

I don't know where we draw the line - common sense I guess. I've peed outside myself as an adult when I was about to burst and could not find a bathroom to save my life. I of course made sure I was private about it, but hey, pee is sterile. It's not like I'm letting them poop outside.

People let their dogs pee outside. Besides the fact that we make sure we are far away from any populated area (we often walk inside of large bushes or low tree overhangs), what's the big difference?


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## homemademomma

my ds pees outside if there are no appropriate facilities available (if i can find a private place). i have no problem with kids (or anyone, of any age fwiw) peeing outside as long as they find a private spot away from other people or play areas.

my dd will do the same, as she sees fit. i see NO reason why a boy can pee outside but a girl cant.


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## lovingmommyhood

I have my DS pee outside all the time. I usually open my car door put him next to the car and stand behind him. Nobody can see him so there's no reason that it's unsafe. If we're at a family gathering (our relatives mostly all live in the country) DS pees outside every time. If we're somewhere that it's not reasonable for him to pee outside next to the car we have a special container that I bought online and he pees in that.

I avoid public bathrooms, I can't stand them.


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## lovingmommyhood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *homemademomma* 
my ds pees outside if there are no appropriate facilities available (if i can find a private place). i have no problem with kids (or anyone, of any age fwiw) peeing outside as long as they find a private spot away from other people or play areas.

my dd will do the same, as she sees fit. i see NO reason why a boy can pee outside but a girl cant.

My girlfriends and I squat all the time when we're camping.


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## artgoddess

We are in the midst of potty learning with our son. We just don't go places we don't have the bathrooms scoped out. Since I was recently pregnant I have a mental map in my head of where the closest restrooms are from practically anywhere in town.







And we do skip the park that is 3 blocks from us because it has no bathroom, and we go to the one nearly a mile away because it does have bathrooms.

No peeing on trees for us.


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## eirual

I take DS to pee on trees. Ones that are out of the way of normal foot traffic. Dogs pee wherever they please, human pee is no worse.

If he has to go when we're out, that's what we do. If we're in a store we'll use their bathroom, but sometimes DS will be too uncomfortable and we'll duck out to the bushes if there are any- he can relax and just go easier.

I should say that we make it a private affair. We go out of view or at least turn our backs and take care of business quickly. It's not like he walks up, drops his drawers and lets 'er rip wherever he pleases.


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## StacyL

We do this with our 3 yo ds at a playground that has no restroom facilities. We take him to the edge of the woods and he goes.

When ya gotta go, ya gotta go!

I don't see what the big deal is..


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## *Erin*

i would be very uncomfortable with that for several reasons that have already been mentioned- my dd likes to go barefoot in the park. i'd rather she not run thru someone's pee, kid or dog. that's why there are no dogs allowed in our park.
it's innappropriate. privacy is important to us, and i would like it be to others too-i'm really not comfortable with my dd (or myself) seeing other peoples kid's peeing. if the kids are going into a secluded place, in the woods, behind a bush, that's better. i've had to do that with dd before, b/c of the (lack of) cleanliness in the public toilets. I really don't think it should be so casual and so encouraged. i sure don't let it rip on a tree any time i feel the urge. part of potty learning is learning to hang on to it for a minute so you can put it in a potty.
many times, i've gone into a store and bought something for a quarter so we could use the restrooms. i know it's not as convenient as the nearest tree but kids are really inconvenient too


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## east carolina

It's not at all common for playgrounds to have restrooms, and the few that don't get cleaned very often and are often stinky and gross. Kids pee against trees here, I've seen moms hold their tots over the gutter in the street. It's also not common for people to use the bathroom at a restaurant that they're not eating at.

I occasionally see drunken men peeing in public, but the vast majority of adults in this country don't make it a habit to pee outside where they please, but it's perfectly acceptable for kids to pee outside if they need to. I don't have a problem with it, and my recently potty trained DS has peed against a tree or two.


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## donutmolly

I have a bit of a different perspective here -- having just returned from living in China where the cultural norm is EC, and all small children wear open pants with no diaper and pee/poop wherever they happen to be -- mostly outside, even in very crowded, completely paved areas (that's what the storm-drains are for!). My DD transitioned out of diapers during our year living there, and my biggest worry coming back to the US was how to make the switch from peeing whenever/wherever to finding an appropriate bathroom.

Frankly, I prefer that she not have wet pants, so whatever I can do to facilitate that, I do. Today she pooped in the parking lot outside of a store because they had "no public restroom" -- sorry, she's not going to be forced to go in her pants because I can't get her to a toilet. It wasn't reasonable for me to get her into the car to go find a toilet -- if it were me, I could've held it, she could not. (And yeah, I cleaned up the poo, just like a dog-owner does)

Just another perspective from a different culture -- it's not an inherently wrong thing to have children pee in a public place, it's just not _our_ cultural norm. I think it's fine to be uncomfortable with it, decide where you feel comfortable taking your newly potty-trained child so that you have a toilet always available to you, but I wouldn't be in a hurry to make a fuss over another parent's decisions. The biggest problem with peeing outside is from a sanitary perspective -- but a couple of kids' bladders isn't a huge issue. Maybe parents should petition for a toilet at the park, seems odd to have a playground with no public restroom nearby. I'm sure the local businesses would appreciate it too.

And toddler girls can pee just fine in a squat, no dribbles here. I always carry tissue for needed wiping.


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## hippiemum21580

I potty trained my two oldest outside as it was summer and we lived in a home with a private backyard. It made it all so much easier to just let them run around nakkie for a couple weeks and it was done. Because of this they are very comfy being able to pee outside. I am okay with it as lonmg as they are discreet. (we live in an apartment complex) They are allowed to go in the backyard and pee against the chanlink fence or go down in the woods and find a tree or bush. They never pull thier pants down, I showed them how to be discreet and use the penis flap pocket on their underwear. And I KNOW they coudl just go inside but I don't liek them being unsupervised indoors and I also have a two year old and 3 month old plus I babysit for a 5 month old and 3 year old full time so I would rather NOT drag us all in for a ten second potty break, KWIM? No one has ever commented on them doing it as they are discreet.


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## lovingmommyhood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NicaG* 
I understand why mothers allow their kids to do this. It's easy. But I think it's inappropriate. It's disrespectful of everyone else who has to see it going on, smell it later, explain to their own kids why they're not allowed to do the same, etc. etc. And where do we draw the line? Can 5-year-olds do it? How about 6? How about older? How about adults? I know there are lots of things that little kids can do that become inappropriate at older ages....but I think it's appropriate to teach children to respect public property and other citizens' feelings, and that means using a toilet, not any tree you feel like.

Oh come ON. If moms who are at the park can't handle seeing a kid peeing I'd be wondering what's wrong with them and how they deal with their own children's bodily functions.

Also, smell it? Nobody here has said that their child whips it out and pees next to the slide, they said they take their kid to a tree. There is no WAY you're going to smell it. It's going to get soaked into the ground.

In the city I live in there are adolescents who go around peeing down slides to be "funny". They were eventually caught but I never smelled it when I was at the park and that was right ON the slides with grown 14 year old boys.


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## watermama05

DD potty trained at 22 months, and we spend a lot of time at various parks in an urban setting. We have no car, so rely entirely on our feet and the bus to get around. She has peed on numerous trees and in bushes at parks around the city where there were no bathroom facilities and either no stores, or no stores with a bathroom nearby. I don't think it's a big deal at all, and I take her somewhere where she is mostly out of view. But I know (generally) how long she can hold it, and there's only one park in the city where we could walk home fast enough for her to hold it the whole way. I'd rather she pee on a tree at the park than in her pants as we're trying to hustle home. She doesn't do it for fun, and she's never once been confused about where an appropriate place to pee is- she knows we only pee outside if we can't get to a bathroom.


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## bettysmom

Thanks, everyone! I gather from the responses that I'm in the minority but not alone. And that my perspective might change once DD is potty learning. And that I might be in for a real shock if I ever have a boy!


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## moosey2002

I don't know about where all of you live, but in my city, it is illegal to urinate outside! Children/adults/anyone! I think that parks are a totally inappropriate pace to do this.

That said, I have a son who is still potty training, and I live out in the country (acreage) so when we are out in our OWN yard, I have no problem with him doing this, but I have taught him that in public places it is totally unacceptable. No questions.

I'm amazed that so many of you feel this is ok...how would you feel if one of the parents/passerby's int he park jsut went up to the tree and dropped their drawers? Not only is in indecent exposure in a public place, what about health issues? If every boy in the park pee'd on the tree, how would you feel if you child was running around playing and came up and started touching the tree/hugging the tree like kids do, knowing that many many others may have just pee'd on that tree?? It grosses me out just thinking about it.

Let me know what parks you go to so I know to avoid the trees there please


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## mariamaroo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
So you do it too, then? What about at the supermarket, just drop your pants and wee outside the front door?

Um, no, but I'm an adult, I have a bigger bladder, a more highly developed ability to hold it, and lots more practice knowing when I need to go and finding the perfect place. Let's be serious here, we're talking about little kids who are just learning. Peeing on a tree when you're 2 or 3 does not translate into not knowing what a bathroom is for, or the value of privacy. When they get to the developmental stage of understanding and wanting privacy (somewhere around 3 or 4 years old) things change.

My dd (who just turned 4) used to LOVE to pee (and poop, honestly) outside, and now it doesn't even come up. I didn't let her do it on other people's property, or (as a rule) in public spaces, and the rule was that she not do it where people were likely to walk. She would go by the fence in our backyard, behind some bushes where we didn't generally run around and play. Of course there were a couple of emergency situations when I took her over by the trees to the back of the park and she peed in the grass because there was no bathroom.

I just don't see why, with some reasonable basic boundaries, this is a big deal. And the snippy sarcasm is totally uncalled for IMHO.


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## Ron_Low

I don't have the answer, except that if you're some place where dogs are not allowed (presumably because they would pee everywhere), then I'd say no peeing.


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## brendatcp

I have two boys 7 and 3. I can't say that they have "never" gone outside but I personally find that this is a bit gross. I do not allow my sons to do this and we go home if they need to go. I also make sure that they use the potty before we go to the park to avoid this issue.

I have a neighbor by who is 6 and in 1st grade and still pees outside in his front lawn. At what point do we teach our children to be appropriate?

In some ways I think this is about parents being lazy.


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## samuelsmom

I do not let my ds pee outside in public. We carry an empty plastic water bottle with a cap in our van and car for that purpose. If we are somewhere that he has to go and there's not a place, he stands in the van or car and pees into the bottle. No problem. We just empty at home or into a gutter, clean it out at home and put it back. When dd potty trains, I'm not sure what we'll do, but probably just carry our little potty in the car with us. No public pottying for us.


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## momtoalex

I see no problem with it. But then again, I come from a different culture - Russian, and while I don't remember EC all around, it seems to me more and more often that Russia has a more "relaxed" attitude towards things than the US. I get so many shocked looks when people see my naked 10-month old on the beach like I am naked myself or something. To me, that seems totally okay for a baby to be naked. I don't know if it's the nudity that shocks people or the slight possibility that he may pee/poop. We practice EC and I do offer him to pee in the grass/trees/bushes in public areas. My reasoning is that dogs are allowed to do that. WHy not babies or toddlers?


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## pixiepunk

OK, this is what would happen if I didn't allow my son and daughter to occasionally pee on a tree when there is no public restroom available at the park.

1) child pitches a fit because they're not done playing and don't want to leave said park (might be the child who has to pee, might be the child who doesn't and therefore has no reason to need to suddenly leave, on a really bonus day it's both of them).

2) frantically stuff snacks and water bottles and random balls and other play items into my bag that we brought with us to the park

3) drag children (one whining "i have to pee NOW!" repeatedly, the other still having a tantrum over needing to leave the park) out of said park and down the street to look for a relatively non-disgusting public restroom

4) have my child pee all over him/herself and the floor while standing in line at Starbucks or wherever waiting for the key to the bathroom.

5) trying to keep one child's hands out of the garbage and the toilet while i strip down and clean up the child who has just peed on him/herself and pray i have a spare change of clothes in aforementioned stuffed full bag, the contents of which are now all over the floor of a public restroom

6) go spend $5 i don't really have on a coffee and 2 milks so i don't feel bad about using their public restroom, and because my kid pissed on their floor.

7)drag my tired, defeated, pregnant self and kids back to the park, where the other child promptly tells me that now *they* have to go to the bathroom

thanks, but i think we'll just pee behind a bush.

also, is it just me, or are public restrooms generally *skank* and an absolute last resort? my kids can't keep their hands off of stuff, especially the 2 yo, and a public restroom is like a nightmare of teeming germs that i can't keep him from touching. even if it looks relatively clean, the thought of how many people have likely used it since the last time it was properly cleaned is enough to encourage me to squat my kid next to a tree any day!


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## mrl34

My nephew does this constantly and I am beyond revolted by the behavior! What exactly is wrong with people that would make them consider this to be acceptable in some way?

1) Our bodies are private and, while we should not be ashamed of them, they should also not be shared, either physically or visually, with the general populace. This is known as Indecent Exposure and is a crime.

2) Stop contaminating our public spaces! Think about it! Ten minutes later some child goes running to pick up a ball and puts his hand on the same tree while bending down or a parent comes along and sits down with their back against the tree to watch their child play. Yuck!!!! This is public space thereby not yours but all of ours. If you are that dirty an individual and want to do that in your own yard, I'll just refrain from coming to your house.

3) Most businesses will allow a child to use their rest room without issue, even when that restroom is not considered public. Children are not a new invention and most individuals are aware that children may not have the bladder control of an adult. When in that situation, I simply approach the individual at the counter and politely ask if my daughter might utilize their restroom. In most cases they are happy to help and indicate the direction to their facilities. At the same time, we treat the opportunity as a privilege and respect our hosts by leaving their space clean. I can't tell you the pride I felt when, coming out of a bathroom stall, I found my 5yr old daughter picking up and wiping down the counter in a restaurant bathroom before washing her hands. Not to mention when I noticed that her actions went on to inspire those after us to pick up their dropped paper towels and wipe up their water drips.


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## littlemomma

I love watching my 22 month old pee pee in our yard. Something about that cute little hiney!!!

In the big picture, this is so not something I worry about. I trust that my son's, even though they have been allowed and encouraged to pee privately (and sometimes poop) outside, that they will make the right toileting choices as adults and not "whip it out" any ole' time.

I also don't think of baby or kid pee as being "nasty" or "smelly," but I'm pretty laid back about that kind of thing.


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## mrl34

_"OK, this is what would happen if I didn't allow my son and daughter to occasionally pee on a tree when there is no public restroom available at the park..."_

Gee, welcome to parenthood! If someone told you it was easy, they were lying.


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## Margarita26

Quote:


Originally Posted by *watermama05* 
DD potty trained at 22 months, and we spend a lot of time at various parks in an urban setting. We have no car, so rely entirely on our feet and the bus to get around. She has peed on numerous trees and in bushes at parks around the city where there were no bathroom facilities and either no stores, or no stores with a bathroom nearby. I don't think it's a big deal at all, and I take her somewhere where she is mostly out of view.

She doesn't do it for fun, and she's never once been confused about where an appropriate place to pee is- she knows we only pee outside if we can't get to a bathroom.

this is my situation exactly. no car and the parks around us dont have bathrooms. so if i didnt have my son pee behind trees and bushes, i would either have to put him back in diapers again even though he doesnt need them or want to wear them or i just couldnt take him to the park (which we go to every day).

im actually pretty surprised so many people are grossed out by this.


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## Margarita26

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mrl34* 
_"OK, this is what would happen if I didn't allow my son and daughter to occasionally pee on a tree when there is no public restroom available at the park..."_

Gee, welcome to parenthood! If someone told you it was easy, they were lying.

i dont think her point was that parenthood should be easy, i think she's just trying to illustrate why some parents choose to let their child pee in a park once in awhile.


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## pixiepunk

it's not about whether or not parenthood is easy or hard, it's about respecting my children enough to not inflict physical discomfort and emotional distress on them for no good reason. and believe me, this is a big reason why i EC'd both my kids. neither one of them pooped anywhere but in the toilet in our house after about 14 months of age, and they were both quite reliably able to hold their pee in for a reasonable amount of time by age 2. but there are just times when they can't - *especially* at the park where they're distracted and having fun - and i would *much* rather water a bush then put my child in a position where they are physically uncomfortable (whether it's from holding their pee in, or from having an accident), or emotionally distressed (whether that's from having to leaving the park, or from the upset/embarrassment that sometimes comes with having an accident).

I take my childrens' physical and emotional well-being very seriously, and I'm not going to needlessly put them in distress physically or emotionally because some other mom at the park is so darn uptight that the sight of a peeing toddler causes her to have palpitations. get over it. pee is sterile, and it's a natural bodily function.


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## DavinaT

As for 'disgusting and gross and unacceptable' and it "being indecent exposure and a criminal offence" - they are KIDS for crying out loud.
Even here, the police have way way more on their hands than a 3 year old pee ing in the park in an emergency.
I don't have a problem with a parent allowing a child to do this is an emergency and anyone who does should read pixiepunk's posting.

As for 'how about an adult' - well I would have thought that obvious difference is that adults have fully developed larger bladders and have physiologivcally developed bladder control.
I for one have not become so "precious" that seeing a toddler peeing beind a tree in a park disgusts me.


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## mamasgroovin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Margarita26* 
i dont think her point was that parenthood should be easy, i think she's just trying to illustrate why some parents choose to let their child pee in a park once in awhile.









:

As the mother of 3 boys and now a daughter as well, I am SHOCKED by all the posters proclaiming disgust. My 3 boys, all fully potty trained now, all have at one time or another had to make use of a tree or bush at one time or another. It's not like you are going out there and saying, "Hey, let's go to the park to pee on some trees today kids!" It is done out of necessity.

I think this thread is going







.


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## SiValleySteph

My son is 3 and potty trained. This has just never been an issue. If he needs to pee, we find a restroom. Same as I would do for myself.


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## orangefoot

I don't think it is a big deal: spitting is way worse as is smoking and drug use in public.

My boys have weed on trees, in bushes and in drains if need be - when they were little. Now at 14 and 10 they can hang on until we find a toilet and they don't consider using a tree or bush.

I EC our littlest outdoors sometimes if we need to, and my 4yo dd has very rarely needed to wee when we are out and about bur she did when she was smaller. I don't think it is the worst thing that could ever happen but maybe I've had more years of toddlerdom and bladder distraction in my family than some people 









This is one of those things where if you are totally against it you won't let your child do it and you will accept the consequences of that, or maybe keep them in nappies for longer.


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## mariamaroo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pixiepunk* 
it's not about whether or not parenthood is easy or hard &#8230; get over it. pee is sterile, and it's a natural bodily function.

Thank you!


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## heket

I got a bit







: reading all the posts. So I had to go back and reread the OPs original post.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bettysmom* 
There is no restroom actually at the playground, but there are local businesses right across the street with clean restrooms and nice staff.

Assuming that these businesses don't mind, if at all possible I'd opt for these restrooms. But this might not always be the case. I would feel compelled to patronize the business since we made use of their restroom, and as someone else said, I might not be able to do this each time.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bettysmom* 
What do you think of this? Should boys just fire away in public outdoor places, or should parents try to teach them to announce their need soon enough that they can get to an actual toilet? And am I just a prude?

I don't the it's the end of the world to pee on a bush or tree, but I would look for a secluded spot where privacy could be maintained. If there are no restrooms at the public park, that's not going to stop my child from peeing.

Although, I have a diva and I know she'd hold it rather than pee in public...My ds, though, I can see peeing in public.


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## philomom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
It's completely inappropriate unless it's an emergency. We've had to let DS go a few times in that case...once when he was just training and we were twenty miles from the nearest building, and he needed to go. We pulled over, hid behind some bushes and watered a tree.

Parents should absolutely not be encouraging their children to whip it out at a playground for no good reason. And if an emergency situation exists, a courteous parent will make some effort to shield the child from view.

Yep, the handful of times, my son did this kind of thing, was only because he couldn't wait. And we always went out of range a little. I don't want anyone stepping in pee.


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## Bellejar

I don't have a problem with a parent finding a somewhat secluded spot in an emergency, but I don't like the idea of little kids peeing in the middle of the park. I do remember as a child my mom had an emergency potty in the back of our station wagon (think potty chair). That worked well for us, of course we were all girls. I do think it is important for parents to try and impart this behavior is for emergencies only. I only have girls and we have never had them go out in public, but we have public restrooms pretty much everywhere and they are generally pretty clean. I might change my mind if that weren't the case.


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## habbymommy

My DD is 8 years old and loves to pee outside (just like his father does) Now before you go jumping to conclusions...My DH only does this at night in our backyard which faces a farm. I am not in agreement with this behavior but it is baffling to me what is so fun about peeing outside when bathrooms are readily available. Maybe it has something to do with getting back to nature and feeling the wind in your....or more likely it's pure laziness. At any rate, what is borderline appropriate for a toddler, becomes less so as kids get older. While I sometimes catch and reprimand my son for peeing in the backyard, it would be totally inappropriate for an 8 year old to do so at a park or any other public place. In emergency situations, we've all done what we have to do but FYI, my 20 year old niece recently got arrested and spent the night in jail for an emergency pee in a parking lot at night at her college campus. So, for all those in agreement with public peeing toddlers, at what point is it not ok? I, for one, still keep a diaper in the car for emergency situations for my 3 year old DD.

Habbymommy


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## sadiejane08

I wouldn't want a kid (mine or anyone else's) to pee anywhere I wouldn't want a dog to pee. Way off in the bushes where nobody plays? Fine. Up against a tree in the middle of the play area? No way. Urine may be sterile when it comes out, but it doesn't stay that way for long.


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## Swirly

I absolutely hate the smell of urine in public places. I usually assume it is an adult who has done the act, but I am sure it is smelly when it comes from kids too. I think it is best to not go in public areas unless it is an absolute emergency.


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## momma-d

In an emergency, I don't think there's anything wrong with peeing away from everyone (like off in the trees, out of sight...I do this myself often when we're hiking through the woods)...but...just at the edge of the park? And, what, only the boys? OP - I would be using the facilities across the street before going in to the park and upon leaving in order to avoid such an emergency.

What I'm not getting are all these comparisons of toddlers to dogs. Huh? Of course dogs pee outside. If you know of a dog who uses the toilet I'd love to see a picture...
Apples to oranges, ladies.


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## EviesMom

In an emergency, there may be an appropriate area of a park for children to pee in, but I really find it inappropriate for adults or kids of either gender to pee IN the playground.

My daughter looooooves to collect leaves and acorns and such from trees around the playground, and it's disgusting to know that some parents think those are appropriate pee spots. The only playground where I've seen children peeing (and that was a girl, for the record), we don't go to anymore.

As for dog pee, at least here, dogs aren't allowed on the playground, and I don't let my daughter collect leaves and sticks--or run and play--in dog/pee appropriate areas. Playground trees are not for peeing on.

We have a portable folding potty for playground use, or we go to shops which don't mind (I've asked) because while we may not buy something that exact time, we shop there regularly regardless. I also once let my dd pee in the drain for the water sprinkler that kids splash in. I know that the water there is not recycled, so in an emergency, I knew it would go directly into the sewer, and would be fully washed away.


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## p.s

Gl


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## PuppyFluffer

I think Americans have a very distorted and unhealthy view of the human body. It saddens me that the nudity of children is so reprehensible to so many.

I really wish I lived in Europe!


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## mamahart

I think this whole conversation should be about how freaked out we are in general by biological behavior. The misdemeanor indecency exposure is used all the time in situations where someone is really just trying to find a place to pee. It's sad. Of course I don't want exhibitionists around any children anywhere, but is that what this is about? Is peeing behind a tree really that disgusting?!
I think that learning discrection and respect for others would allow little boys the skill to quickly and quietly pee in an emergency w/o showing off thier privates. Same goes for girls.
My little boy lives in the country and pees outside a lot of the time, granted this is at home. Well when we recently went on vacation and stayed at a hotel he tried to pee outside in a very busy area. So I tell him you cannot pee outside unless we are at home. Now when we're out doing chores or working on Daddy's farm he is freaked out to pee outside!! I'm sure he'll get over it.








My uncle had his grandson stay with him at his country home for the summer, he was about 7. Uncle taught little boy to pee behind a tree when they were out doing chores.
When the little guy went back to Los Angeles his mom took him to the mall where he promptly climbed into a indoor plant area and dropped his pants.
I thought it was funny!! But thank goodness he wasn't hauled away in handcuffs.!


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## bri276

I think it's cute for little boys, kinda gross for adults. If I were male, I would definitely take advantage of the pee anywhere benefit in emergenices, though! However, I do think it should be limited to places where the urine can be absorbed into the ground rather than on pavement or somewhere that is likely to be walked on.

I can't imagine having a problem with anyone, male or female of any age, peeing outside where no one can see them, as long as it's in the woods or somewhere remote. Urine really isn't some huge health hazard.


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## MonP'titBoudain

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PuppyFluffer* 
I think Americans have a very distorted and unhealthy view of the human body. It saddens me that the nudity of children is so reprehensible to so many.

Seriously! This thread is truly bizarre







: I really do not understand the freaking out about toddlers peeing on a tree, regardless of the presence of bathrooms. And what is the deal with comparing toddlers to adults and older children, forget dogs? Talk about apples to oranges! I hope by the time my son is grown he will be doing lot's of things differently, like not farting in public and announcing it proudly! Or maybe speaking in fully understandable sentences!


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## Margarita26

[QUOTE And what is the deal with comparing toddlers to adults and older children, forget dogs? Talk about apples to oranges! QUOTE]

Thats exactly what i was thinking...really dont get that at all!


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## EviesMom

I actually have no problem with nude toddlers running around at the playground. In the summer when the sprinklers are on, there are always a few both boys and girls shirtless, or in just panties, or in nothing. That doesn't bother me at all.

But peeing on trees IN the playground when other children will then be picking up leaves, sticks, other natural treasures soaked in someone's urine?







Go outside the playground gate at least, where I know that there might be urine, human or dog, instead. You don't even have to take your other child(ren) with you to do that here, depending on their age. You can still see the whole playground.


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## Mamato3wild ponnie

my little one just came inside and said mama i peed out side come look...it has not rained here in months so the ground is dry...except where he peed!!!!i love it..right in the middle of the back yard..and yes where we all walk and sit and even have a picnic sometimes..it's urine...it's sterile and it's ok..at least i'm not using up the rainforest having a diaper on his bum..right? just my 2 cent...pee where ever your little heart desire's my boy....


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## rjrmommy

I have, in an emergency only, stopped my car on a secluded road to let my son's go pee pee--again, in an emergency and only if I'm nowhere near a restroom. I'd do the same if they were throwing up. However, I think it's disgusting for a child to pee, to be encouraged to pee on a playground. Firstly, it's just rude, and secondly, there may be children coming along behind who are playing under that same tree. I just don't see why a mom or dad can't drag her(him)self away to get the child to a proper bathroom. It's inappropriate behavior to urinate in public and, in fact, against the law in most places. Imagine my surprise and disgust when I got off the Buzz Lightyear Space Ranger Spin at Disney World last week to see a father lift his son up onto a planter, pull his pants down and let him pee all over the Disney landscaping. The bathrooms were literally two hundred feet away. It's just foul and disgusting.


----------



## EviesMom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mamato3wild ponnie* 
my little one just came inside and said mama i peed out side come look...it has not rained here in months so the ground is dry...except where he peed!!!!i love it..right in the middle of the back yard..and yes where we all walk and sit and even have a picnic sometimes..it's urine...it's sterile and it's ok..at least i'm not using up the rainforest having a diaper on his bum..right? just my 2 cent...pee where ever your little heart desire's my boy....

Err... that's in your own backyard, so the only one who might end up eating off that pee or picking up stuff drenched in it is your family. And you know it's there, so you won't do that before it's soaked in/rinsed away/gone. In a public playground, it is not your private space. Apparently there are many many parents who do this with their kids. Just be aware that there are also many parents who may complain and find it putrid. As for the rainforest saving, there are cloth diapers and EC techniques... we're mostly talking about potty trained children in PUBLIC spaces to my understanding. I don't care in the least what you do in your backyard.


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## mamasgroovin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rjrmommy* 
Imagine my surprise and disgust when I got off the Buzz Lightyear Space Ranger Spin at Disney World last week to see a father lift his son up onto a planter, pull his pants down and let him *pee all over the Disney* landscaping.

So tempting...must bite my tongue...


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## jtbuko

Read the thread, and I have a question for folks:
How do you feel about little ones peeing on little potty in public? Basically I am trying to separate the modesty issue from the the ick factor of urine in public places.

Ever since my oldest expressed an interest in potty training we have just kept a potty with us - baby bjorn little potty in jog stroller, another in the back of the car etc. so that if the mood struck him he could potty wherever, whenever. Sometimes this happens in a playground, but I usually sop it up with a cloth diaper and bag it just like I would a diaper that got wet while being worn.

Your thoughts?


----------



## Viola

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rjrmommy* 
Imagine my surprise and disgust when I got off the Buzz Lightyear Space Ranger Spin at Disney World last week to see a father lift his son up onto a planter, pull his pants down and let him pee all over the Disney landscaping. The bathrooms were literally two hundred feet away. It's just foul and disgusting.

I've heard that Disney uses edible plants in the landscaping, in case children might eat it.


----------



## moondiapers

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bettysmom* 
Thanks, everyone! I gather from the responses that I'm in the minority but not alone. And that my perspective might change once DD is potty learning. And that I might be in for a real shock if I ever have a boy!









I think it's gross and inappropriate. It's fine to find some privacy and have your kid pee outside when there isn't another choice....but to pee in full view of a group of people, near where children are playing? YUCK! It's inconsiderate of the people around you.


----------



## Viola

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jtbuko* 
Read the thread, and I have a question for folks:
How do you feel about little ones peeing on little potty in public? Basically I am trying to separate the modesty issue from the the ick factor of urine in public places.

My only issue is the urine in public places. Urine can really reek, and I know I get icked out when I'm in a place where it is clear people are using it as a toilet, like in some parking garages or whatever. So the thought that children using the trees as the rule rather than the exception could bug me depending on the park. There is a park near my house, and there is a grassy area under some trees that provides a nice shady place to sit, but it isn't large. If I knew that a significant number of children were using it as a public toilet, I would not want to use the park. Plus I know how dog and rabbit urine can just kill grass, so if numerous children were peeing outside, I think it could be problematic.

In general though, I don't have an issue with peeing outside. It's just that I now have a 4 year old who pees outside, poops outside, pees inside on the carpet, the furniture. Sigh. She can shoot a stream of urine at least 2 feet. So when talking to her about the whole concept, I have started thinking about public sanitation and how and why we separate it and I know there is value to it. So I'm working with her on the right places to go, meaning encouraging her to use the toilet, but also if going outside picking one area over another. When we go swimming in the summer, a few times she peed on the brick of the patio. I told her to either pee in the pool or out on the dirt beds (so it would soak in) and not on the patio and preferably not on the grass, although she does pee in the grass sometimes.

It would bother me to see a father encouraging his son to pee on landscaping in a theme park when there were restrooms nearby. I also dislike the double standard with it being fine for boys and not for girls. I'd be better disposed towards a parent helping their son pee against a tree if s/he helped her daughter do the same.


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## GOPLawyer

First, I don't think anyone is advocating urinating on a _playground_. The issue is peeing on a tree or in the grass. I have never heard of anyone directing their child to pee on a playground. Even the Disney example had the child peeing in the foliage.

As for the public nudity....yeah...I think this is waaaay overblown. These are _little kids_. There's nothing sexual or lewd about a naked child. And it is completely natural. Just like when I BF my child in public. You might see a little boob when I do but it's not sexual or lewd either.

As for the "ick" factor. I just don't buy this. The trees around the parks here are peed on quite a bit (our Mama's group sees to that







) and it doesn't smell one bit...not even a smidgen (trust me....if it did, one of our pg Mamas would have noticed). However, the bathrooms _reek_. It's really quite logical. Someone must manually clean a bathroom....trees and grass; however, have a natural, built in cleaning system (rain etc.).

As a side note, I find it troublesome that some seem to think it is better and more appropriate that a child pees on him/herself rather than peeing on a tree. Sometimes, a bathroom just isn't an option (referring back to pixipunk's post).

Further, you just never know the full story. For example, DS1 was pretty much fully potty trained....'till he had an automatic toilet flush while he was sitting on it thus making him completely terrified of toilets. He simply will not use one. However, he will use a tree/grass. So, that is what we do....even if it's right next to a bathroom. I don't think we should be so quick to judge (ie the Disney example).

I really am very surprised that so many people on _this_ particular board have such a problem w/ something so natural.


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## Treasuremapper

This drives me nuts!!!! I have had people do this in our front yard when we aren't even in the yard (viewed through the window, and this was our next door neighbor!!! not an emergency). Yuck. At least ask first. Sorry, it's natural, but it's still in poor taste to do that in other people's yards without asking first, so I could offer the child the toilet, or say, no, go walk next door and let him pee on your tree.

And I have seen someone let their son urinate at the base of the slide, when they could step just a few yards away to a tree. (or how about the nice public restroom facilities just a hundred yards away that all the other kids use?)


----------



## IndyNanny

I tell ya what- my 5 yo will take a hidden, out of the way tree over a port-a-potty any day of the week! Those things are gross! We'll water a tree in a pinch.

Funny story: *This happened about 13 years ago.* While playing on the preschool school playground at the end of the day, a mom came over to me (I was a teacher) and said "I don't know if he's supposed to or not, but that little boy just peed in the back corner." I calmly looked to see who she meant, saw she was pointing out my child and said "His mom will be here soon, I'll let her know, thanks. "









FTR - he had never had to pee outside in his life - he must've really had an emergency!


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## bri276

yk, there's urine and fecal matter ALL over the place anyways. Ever seen one of those tests they do for fecal matter on TV? it's on your toothbrush, your doorknob, everywhere. A little pee isn't going to be the straw that breaks the camel's back and gives you some strange bacterial infection.

or is it the smell? I've never smelled urine at a playground or park except at the bathrooms. Even if we humans don't use nature as our potty, the animals didn't get the memo, so I'm pretty sure when I touch a tree there's bird crap, squirrel pee, whatever.









* I'm not talking about whipping it out and letting it flow all over the slide, I'm talking out of the way area.


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## lovebug

at my work we had a mom have her little boy pee outside by our models. was like ummm....ok. it did not bother me, i just dont think i would let my DS do that.


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## cee3

Heh. I suggest that if you're grossed out by a toddler peeing on a tree at the park, you never attend an amateur rugby game. The guys (full-grown adults) generally just kneel down on the pitch and point out the bottom of their shorts. If you ever go to watch a game and see a guy who looks like he's praying....he's not.

Part of my DS1's potty training was learning to go outside - mostly how to get some distance so he didn't pee all over himself. DH took care of this facet of the training. They'd go practice out on our back fence. We've occasionally put it to use if we're at the park and it's an emergency (and no other bathroom). I usually take him to a secluded area, behind a tree or a bush, and I try to shield him from view. I only do all that out of consideration for the other people there...I really don't want to have to deal with dirty looks, although it wouldn't bother me at all if someone else's kid was more obvious about it.


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## pixiepunk

i hate to break to you all, but squirrels, chipmunks, birds, stray cats, possibly rats and other animalia who frequent public parks are rarely, if ever, toilet trained (though i'm sure there's a You Tube video somewhere to prove me wrong). there is likely pee and poop on said tree and surrounding leaves, sticks and other things your child might pick up and even put in his/her mouth.

this thread is really too much









it is our obsession with cleanliness in this culture which is largely responsible for increasingly virulent strains of all kinds of diseases. and there have actually been studies, i believe there was one in Germany (can't remember, saw it on a PBS documentary a while back) that showed that kids who grew up on farms and were exposed regularly to small amounts of fecal matter, dirt and germs were healthier, less likely to have allergies, and had stronger immune systems than their clean-living urban and suburban counterparts.


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## mamasgroovin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pixiepunk* 
i hate to break to you all, but squirrels, chipmunks, birds, stray cats, possibly rats and other animalia who frequent public parks are rarely, if ever, toilet trained (though i'm sure there's a You Tube video somewhere to prove me wrong). there is likely pee and poop on said tree and surrounding leaves, sticks and other things your child might pick up and even put in his/her mouth.

this thread is really too much









it is our obsession with cleanliness in this culture which is largely responsible for increasingly virulent strains of all kinds of diseases. and there have actually been studies, i believe there was one in Germany (can't remember, saw it on a PBS documentary a while back) that showed that kids who grew up on farms and were exposed regularly to small amounts of fecal matter, dirt and germs were healthier, less likely to have allergies, and had stronger immune systems than their clean-living urban and suburban counterparts.

And I would like to add to that all the environmental garbage that we have spewn , particularly you city folk, that is EVERYWHERE, including the air you breathe, which IMHO is FAR worse than a bit of bio-matter.

I am so glad I am not a germaphobic. I'd never get to leave my house.


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## EviesMom

Hmmm... I'm guessing that most of you have backyards and cars and very different, maybe more open, playgrounds. On the other hand, I don't have a car, live in 550 square feet with a family of 4, and use urban playgrounds where 2-3 trees and some playground equipment are fenced in, dogs are not allowed. Dogs are allowed in the larger park though.

If the regular practice here were for all toddlers to pee on the playground trees, that would mean LITERALLY 1000-2000 CHILDREN peeing on the playground (or on "trees in the playground") EACH DAY. That would stink, the ground would not absorb it, and it would be disgusting.

Squirrel pee, rat pee... those I deal with as part of just what exists in our environment. And those critters stay away while children are actively playing on the trees here, so they might have peed there 15 minutes before, whereas toddler 1 pees and toddler 2 picks up still wet leaves 2 minutes later. That's disgusting. I don't use antibacterial soap or any other silly thing besides regular routine handwashing and am so far from a germaphobe, it's ridiculous.

It is not a good citizen practice to have your child pee on the playground, whether on trees at the playground or on playground equipment. Go to a restroom, a part of the park where dogs are allowed to pee (that would be the dirt, because thousands of dogs pee there every day, including mine; you're not "watering" a tree or grass or helping it out by peeing on it, that's a myth), or carry around a diaper or portable potty. Or pee on the playground, and expect people to complain and possibly to turn you in if it's a regular thing. If it's a one time emergency, then fine.


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## Treasuremapper

Look, if it is a bona fide emergency, then yes, we would all make exceptions for little kids. But if it isn't, it's tacky for little kids to pee in public for the same reasons it's tacky for adults to pee in public. It violates the community standard and makes a huge assumption that just because you're OK with pee means that everyone is OK with peeing in public. People who don't like this are not necessarily "germaphobes" or uptight. It's natural to pick your nose and rub it on the wall, but that grosses people out and most of us make an effort to educate our children that this is not something that is done in polite society.

I'd also like to wonder if moms of boys are more comfortable with this practice than moms of girls.


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## Kwgrlup

I do not allow my sons to pee in public parks. I think it is disrespectful to others at a PUBLIC park. Only time we did it was when the bathroom was locked, and there was not another one we could use. Other than that the boys can use the bathrooms at the park or hold it until we get home. That is the beauty of boys, even in a not so clean bathroom they can aim and never have to touch anything...







.


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## sadiejane08

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momma-d* 
What I'm not getting are all these comparisons of toddlers to dogs. Huh? Of course dogs pee outside.

Of course they do. And it annoys me when their owners let them do it in the middle of a playground or anywhere else people generally move around.

As for the "squirrels, birds, etc pee everywhere" thing, just as disgusting, wish they didn't do it on park benches and playground equipment, but not much I can do about it. With dogs and kids, though, there's a responsible adult who can make sure it doesn't happen.


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## kluella

Okay, I have read this entire thread, and I am going to agree with the folks who think it's not a big deal. As long as it is in an out of the way place, where no one can see, then let the kid pee. You people need to get over your issues. Clearly, if a clean restroom is nearby that's the best option. But often it is not the case.

And on a similar note, people have mentioned how awful the idea of adults doing this is. Well let me tell you, my dh pees outside a lot. We go camping, fishing, hunting and often there is no bathroom so he goes outside, or if there is a bathroom it is so gross that outside is preferable. Again, out of sight. Or sometimes it's just more convenient. He works in construction, and he could hold it long enough to drive 10 minutes to the gas station, but goes at the site because it's just easier. And no one cares, because it's just pee. We all do it.


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## Mommy Piadosa

Click here to see my opinion.


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## EviesMom

The key differences I think are population density/usage of the park (small urban park with 1000 visitors a day versus national park/camping type park with a few dozen visitors a day); and community norms or standards. Clearly the CA pic is of someone's backyard, not a public playground. So 3 kids pee there, no problem. My neighborhood, though, is 500-1000 children per day. They really can't all pee there. The population density makes it an entirely different ball of wax... or puddle of pee.

Community norms lead to social sanctions, or why the pee-in-the-bushes moms are all hanging out together. The one park I saw a consistent peeing habit in I consider lower class and we don't go there unless a friend has a strong desire to; and we wouldn't set up a playdate with a family that did regularly pee on the playground; etc.

OP-no, you're not the only one who thinks it gross and inappropriate.


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## mom2orionplus1

IMO kids shouldn't be encouraged to potty outside. I have never really even thought to let him go to the bathroom outside. I guess I would if there wasn't a bathroom anywhere close and he couldn't make it to one. But, in the past, I have always searched out a bathroom for him. I feel that if I encouraged that, he would be on the Kindergarten playground unzipping his pants and peeing away, which is not appropriate.


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## mom2orionplus1

Oh and I just clicked on the picture. That is too freakin funny! They are just adorable. So, I guess I'm not offended by it, I just wouldn't encourage my son to do it.


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## marisa

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bettysmom* 
I suppose she had to see one sometime, but I just wasn't prepared for it (though I guess few parents are prepared for that first big "reveal" of the opposite gender's "parts").


I'm sorry, but I had to







at this. I have three kids, and I imagined after my daughter being born gathering my sons around and saying, "THIS, my sons, is a vagina..."


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## Panthira

We went to the park the other day, FIL in tow. I noticed they had put in a porta potty, and I mentioned how I would rather my ds peed behind a bush because the porta potty stunk to high heaven. My FIL said that it was bad for the environment to pee behind a bush.


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## erthe_mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *samuelsmom* 
I do not let my ds pee outside in public. We carry an empty plastic water bottle with a cap in our van and car for that purpose. If we are somewhere that he has to go and there's not a place, he stands in the van or car and pees into the bottle. No problem. We just empty at home or into a gutter, clean it out at home and put it back. When dd potty trains, I'm not sure what we'll do, but probably just carry our little potty in the car with us. No public pottying for us.


The potty thing is what my parents did with their four girls. If, on a road trip, we were far, far away from toilets we used it. I only let my son pee in the park once. Ever. It was into a water bottle. Yuck! If children REALLY have to pee, and forgot their water bottle, or what-have-you, then PLEASE make sure to pee waaaaaaay over in the corner of the park on a bush, not a tree, where I might possibly lean against. 

P.S. What's all this talk about pee being sterile?? It's only "sterile" to the person who's peeing it!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pixiepunk* 
also, is it just me, or are public restrooms generally *skank* and an absolute last resort? my kids can't keep their hands off of stuff, especially the 2 yo, and a public restroom is like a nightmare of teeming germs that i can't keep him from touching. even if it looks relatively clean, the thought of how many people have likely used it since the last time it was properly cleaned is enough to encourage me to squat my kid next to a tree any day!

What about all the other (possibly diseased) people who've peed on that tree before your kid? Just sayin. Emergency situation, I guess it's fine... but why not bring something for them to pee into? Just makes more sense to me...


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## erthe_mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoalex* 
I don't know if it's the nudity that shocks people or the slight possibility that he may pee/poop.

For me, it's mostly the latter. But that's because most parents don't clean it up!! My son almost stepped in some otehr kid's poop at the beach last summer. Needless to say I was not impressed. Not saying that you don't clean it up...


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## pixiepunk

Quote:

no private backyards, small public playground/dog run/benches type of parks, few cars, and a building where roughly 800 people live. If you pee in my park, or your kid pees in my park, I will say something, it is not fine and dandy and is not something other people need to "get over their issues with."

So... have fun out there in suburbia, but the population density makes it an entirely different ball of wax... or puddle of pee.
when i lived in the middle of a very densely populated city neighborhood and had no yard, everyone at the neighborhood park with PL'ing aged kids took them into the trees to pee. no one thought anything of it, and no one that i know of even considered walking the 3 blocks to the nearest business location or to their apartment/home to take their PL'ing aged child to a toilet.

i'm certainly happy to now be living far from that city where play areas and public parks are measured in acres instead of square feet, and where most parks i frequent have clean and easily accessible restrooms. i'm sure that would be most peoples' preference (the clean, easily accessible restrooms, not living far from the city...).


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## shershine

I think it's kind of (I want to say gross but I think gross it a little too strong of a word....maybe icky?)







It's not the nudity thing, I find nothing shameful about the naked body, it's more the pee. I am a little squeemish about bodily fluids unless they come from my own kids.







: Just a little though, I'm no where near a germ phobe!!! Though it does bother me a bit, I do understand it if there are no bathrooms close by. No child should have to pee their pants or be in pain because they can't get to a restroom fast enough. I do appreciate when the parent takes the child to the perimeter of the park or something so it isn't right where everyone is playing. I've been aquainted with mom's who would have their kids go right where he had our blanket laid out, about a foot away. I wouldn't be comfortable with that, but to each their own! So, I'm not judging, but I might be cringing inside a bit. I can't help it!


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## MtBikeLover

Haven't read all the replies, but this wouldn't bother me. If we go somewhere that doesn't have a bathroom, then I tell the kids they can pee outside, but I direct them to a place that is a little more private than a big tree that everyone can see.

And I let them pee outside sometimes at home because I am too lazy to gather both kids up, run around to the front of the house, and run them upstairs to the bathroom. But we have lots of bushes so no one sees them but me.


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## cee3

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EviesMom* 
Community norms lead to social sanctions, or why the pee-in-the-bushes moms are all hanging out together. The one park I saw a consistent peeing habit in *I consider lower class* and we don't go there unless a friend has a strong desire to; and we wouldn't set up a playdate with a family that did regularly pee on the playground; etc.

Wow, if this is your edited version, I'd hate to see how offensive your original post was. So now little kids not being able to hold it is a class issue?


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## EviesMom

Err.. no. Kids not being able to hold it is understandable. Adults encouraging them to pee in the bushes as a regular standard practice, however, is in my opinion, tacky, low-class, and disgusting. I was being rude about the inability of people on this thread to comprehend the difference between their backyards and public parks. I changed that.

The playground that had smoking adults not really watching their children on the playground, adults without children (who are not by law supposed to be in an enclosed playground here), litter and broken glass, and adults encouraging children to pee around the few trees that existed rather than carrying a portable potty, leaving a non-fully potty trained child in diapers/pullups, or using the actually fairly clean public restroom 20 feet away... yeah, that would be the park we don't go to. And I think of it as a place frequented by lower class.


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## Mommy Piadosa

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EviesMom* 
tacky, low-class, and disgusting. And I think of it as a place frequented by lower class.

What exactly is meant by Low Class? In sociology I was taught it meant a group of people with less opportunities for education and less money. So when the word "low class" are used as an insult- I find it to be demeaning and classist.


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## delphiniumpansy

I am soooooo glad I have girls.


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## hipumpkins

Our rule is you must use the toilet if one is available, however you don't pee outside for the fun of it. you can do it in an emergency that goes for DS and DD.


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## thismama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowpansy* 
I am soooooo glad I have girls.









What, do your girls never have to go pee when there is no bathroom around?

Coz, mine does!

I am not seeing how this is in any way a 'boys' issue.


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## pdxmomazon

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EviesMom* 

It is not a good citizen practice to have your child pee on the playground, whether on trees at the playground or on playground equipment...If it's a one time emergency, then fine.









:

Although it hasn't come up yet for us, I have seen little boys gleefully peeing in the park. I think of it as a matter of manners. Spitting, picking your nose, and masturbating are natural too, but I will teach my child that we do those things in private, not in the park. Sure, in an emergency, find a secluded spot and pee. But because you don't want to walk to a washroom or interrupt your child's play? Rude.


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## beka1977

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
It's completely inappropriate unless it's an emergency. We've had to let DS go a few times in that case...once when he was just training and we were twenty miles from the nearest building, and he needed to go. We pulled over, hid behind some bushes and watered a tree.

Parents should absolutely not be encouraging their children to whip it out at a playground for no good reason. And if an emergency situation exists, a courteous parent will make some effort to shield the child from view.

Yes! I hate the peeing in the park, isn't it cute thing. ARGH!


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## treqi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SiValleySteph* 
My son is 3 and potty trained. This has just never been an issue. If he needs to pee, we find a restroom. *Same as I would do for myself*.

If I wouldn't feel comfortable peeing somewhere I wouldn't let my dd (or ds if I had one) unless I was an emergency (and a park doesn't count)


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## ParisApril

I can wait.

My DD who's 8 can wait.

My DS who's 2 can't wait.

For those who are offended by a very small child peeing in public. Don't you realize that by spending time overreacting to really insignificant issues we cheapen the fact that there is are so many more important things it this world that we shoud be offended by!

Like:

global warming
water quality
AIDS
genicide
child molestation
child pornography
endangered species
pesticide use

Just to name a few.


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## erthe_mama

Yeah.... but that's not what this thread is about.


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## reezley

Peeing at a visible playground tree, especially an urban playground tree = yuck, and bad manners. At LEAST an effort should be made by the adult to stand there and try to block people's view, or at least look like they're trying to if it's just impossible to find a semi-secluded tree or bush.


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## keriberry

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bettysmom* 

... and then she saw her friend's penis and was very curious. That part's OK -- I suppose she had to see one sometime, but I just wasn't prepared for it (though I guess few parents are prepared for that first big "reveal" of the opposite gender's "parts").


Please forgive me if your husband has had a terrible accident and his genitalia resembes that of a Ken doll, but...doesn't daddy have a penis?








My kids had the first big reveal during birth.







And they've seen both my husband and I naked ever since. We take family showers to get out of the door fast, in an assembly line fashion and our newborns prefer to be held in the shower to flailing in the bath. They've used the words penis, vagina and vulva correctly from a very young age.

As for the peeing thing...If there is a clean, available restroom within a reasonable distance, they use it. If not, they pee on a tree.


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## EnterGently

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EviesMom* 
The key differences I think are population density/usage of the park (small urban park with 1000 visitors a day versus national park/camping type park with a few dozen visitors a day); and community norms or standards. Clearly the CA pic is of someone's backyard, not a public playground. So 3 kids pee there, no problem. My neighborhood, though, is 500-1000 children per day. They really can't all pee there. The population density makes it an entirely different ball of wax... or puddle of pee.

Community norms lead to social sanctions, or why the pee-in-the-bushes moms are all hanging out together. The one park I saw a consistent peeing habit in I consider lower class and we don't go there unless a friend has a strong desire to; and we wouldn't set up a playdate with a family that did regularly pee on the playground; etc.

OP-no, you're not the only one who thinks it gross and inappropriate.

OK, think about this. The majority of people who ever lived on this earth, since the beginning of time, didn't have access to plumbing and bathrooms . . . so where did they pee? Naturally, they are not going to pee where they live, they will do it outside where the ground can absorb it. Plumbing became a necessity when people started moving closer together in crowded cities and there became an issue with sanitation. But even in this case, we are not talking about some kids peeing in a city playground as an exception because they are small and can't hold it, we are talking about all the people living there, needing a place to pee/poop so that it wasn't lining the streets (that don't absorb it) causing a health hazard. Of course, most of us appreciate plumbing in our homes (I am lazy, I would have hated having to walk all the way outside to pee







).
Our parks have lots of trees and they have bathrooms too, but often either they are locked or a good distance away or just plain nasty. I don't know your park situations, or if clean bathrooms are available, but I would think if a few random kids (yes I say a few, because out of the 1000 kids that go there, only a handful will be there at any given time, and only a handful of them will need to pee when they are there . . . yes it adds up, but pee also evaporates, absorbs into the ground, and I know my kids pee far less than an adult does) anyway, my point . . . if peeing on the trees was a problem, then I would think the city would try to put a stop to it, put up signs etc or whatever. You have every right not to like it and to choose a park in a location where kids don't pee on trees. Just like I have the right to feel that it is no biggy and that those who don't like it are uptight























I am in one of those playgroups where the kids pee freely, usually behind a tree or bush (we never allow them to pee IN the playground or near people, though it does happen on accident from time to time). None of us smokes as in your other example (not that you are saying that all who pee freely do) in fact, our group is a 'natural family' group, filled with homebirthers, EC'ers, cloth diaper users, breastfeeders, co-sleepers, homeschoolers etc. and hey, we are very well educated, IMO non "low class" people, who are more concerned with our children's health and well being and with respecting them and teaching them to respect others (which is why we pee out of the way behind a tree instead of in the playground) than we are of what others think of us as people or what they think of how we do things







(since most people in this world find what we do to be 'crazy' anyway







ultimately we can't please everyone) None of us has an issue with something as natural as a child needing to pee in a natural place . . . outside. I guess that is why I am so surprised with the number of people on this thread here at Mothering, having a problem with it.

Kelley
Sahm to Xian (7) Piper (5) Arah (3) and newest UC baby Ever (9mo).


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## mamahart

I wish I could print out this whole thread to make all my friends laugh and laugh!! My husband ENCOURAGES my DH to pee on the trees at his farm for the nitrogen content. His master gardener dad taught him that, and certain species of trees and plants by the way...
But I live in the country and people pee outside. When my 9 year old daughter came home to tell me one of the kindergarden boys peed on the edge of the playground it was with gentle humor and understanding. She knew he was just takin care of business. She also knew he would learn not to do this pretty darn quickly.
I also think that using the term low class is incredibly offensive, rude and elitist. Not O.K.


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## EviesMom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamahart* 
I also think that using the term low class is incredibly offensive, rude and elitist. Not O.K.

So what word(s) would be less offensive? But still have the same meaning of displaying a lack of etiquette? "Low class" is apparently considered horridly inappropriate. "No class" seems to be everywhere online, but I'm guessing anything with the word class in it is thought to be "classist." Apparently "class" is always defined by people here as "people having the same social or economic status" opposed to being related to "elegance in dress or behavior."

Rude? Tacky? Socially inappropriate? Tact-less? Inelegant? Crude?

Doesn't matter how much money you make, what your educational level, what you wear, or how crunchy you are, if you're *encouraging* your kids to pee on the *playground*, I will personally consider you crude/tacky/not someone to be friends with.


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## CalBearMama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
That is disgusting.

I used to work with men who did this, and it was revolting, and so very very inappropriate. It's up there with ECing in your seat on a plane. NOT OK!

I haven't read this entire thread, but I just wanted to put in my two cents as an EC'er (since DS was about 10 months old). I've never EC'ed in an airplane seat, but I know (and like and respect) people who have. I have seen many babies and toddlers be EC'ed very discreetly into a wet bag or other portable container, with no exposure of their parts and no one nearby being any the wiser about what was going on. Why is it better to force a child who is capable of being pottied to instead soil his or her own clothing, subjecting both the child and caregiver to a messy diaper change in a tiny airplane bathroom? Sure, if the caregiver is capable of getting the baby into the bathroom in time to go in the toilet, great - but with babies, the amount of time you have to respond doesn't always lend itself to unbuckling seat belts, squeezing past the other passengers in your row, and standing in line to use a tiny lavatory.

As for peeing outside at a playground, I have to say that what I find disturbing is the lack of clean, functioning, unlocked public restrooms at many of the parks we frequent. I have found myself walking into porta potties, fully intending to help DS use them, and then turning right around and helping him pee outside on a tree because they were so disgusting and offered no opportunity for handwashing after use. Because we started EC before DS was walking, I got used to holding him "in position" to pee (holding him under the thighs, so that he's in a squatting position with his back against my chest). Even though he's almost 3 years old now, that's what I still do when we're outside, because it enables me to shield him from view and make sure that his pants don't get pee on them (which happens routinely when he stands to pee). The same could be done as easily, if not more easily, with a girl.

Basically, I feel like if the parent is assisting the child to pee in an appropriate location (given the options), I have no problem with it. To me, a tree or bush on the outskirts of the playground, away from where most of the play happens, is an appropriate location if there is no restroom readily available (and I don't include bathrooms in stores across the street within my definition of "readily available"). Kids simply don't have the same capacity to wait, so the choice is often to either help them pee on a bush, or watch helplessly as they pee their pants where they stand. Oh, and speaking of which, I have seen enough kids pee their pants accidentally at the park to know that there's pee pretty much everywhere (in the sandbox, in the grass, you name it) - I consider it to be a public service to at least get my DS away from the central play areas before he pees.


----------



## ananas

I don't see it as a big deal. My best friend (who is in his twenties) still sometimes goes outside rather than to the actual bathroom at night.







Technically, it is a lot closer.

But anyway- I don't think there's anything wrong with it. Sometimes I wish I had the...ability


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## loraxc

See, it's interesting, because I am not germphobic--in fact, those women who hover and then PEE ON THE SEAT in public restrooms because their sainted bottoms are too good for the toilet are at the top of my pet peeve list.

I've had to stop and think about it, and I think my objection comes from several places:

1. I think doing this regularly (as opposed to in an emergency, and in particular because you have a germ-phobia of public restrooms) gives the impression that public decorum and manners are less important than your kid being able to be "free" and for you to be spared any inconvenience. And also, there's kind of this attitude of "How could anyone be offended by the sight of my precious babe's genitalia?" That sort of thing. It strikes me as me-first.

2. It does seem to be waaay more common for boys to be doing this than girls, and I don't think it's all because of the technical issues. I think there's some weird "boys will be boys and their penises have needs" thing going on here. I also find that moms seem to find naked boykids "cute" and giggleworthy in a particular way that really differs from their attitude towards naked girlkids. It's kind of like, "Oh look at the wee man and his weewee!" for boys, but "Honey, that's dirty, put your clothes on" for girls.


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## Mommy Piadosa

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EviesMom* 
Doesn't matter how much money you make, what your educational level, what you wear, or how crunchy you are, if you're *encouraging* your kids to pee on the *playground*, I will personally consider you crude/tacky/not someone to be friends with.

drat- here I thought we were BFFs
from: upper middle class, MA, skirt wearing, crunchy, crude, tacky mama who encourages her child to pee on a tree.


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## Teensy

While I agree that you'll see more boys peeing on trees mostly because it's physically easier for them than girls, and also the "boys will be boys" attitude, I think there may also be a third reason - my boys were VERY difficult to potty train, my daughter was easy. If my daughter announces she has to pee, she can usually wait a short while until we get to a restroom. With my boys, you had about 90 seconds, tops, before they wet their pants. After changing wet clothes literally hundreds of times, you will take any chance you have to keep their pants dry. Maybe my children aren't typical, but there definitely seems to be differences in nighttime bed-wetting between boys and girls and I bet there are differences in day-time bladder control between toddler boys and girls also.


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## cee3

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EviesMom* 
So what word(s) would be less offensive? But still have the same meaning of displaying a lack of etiquette? "Low class" is apparently considered horridly inappropriate. "No class" seems to be everywhere online, but I'm guessing anything with the word class in it is thought to be "classist." Apparently "class" is always defined by people here as "people having the same social or economic status" opposed to being related to "elegance in dress or behavior."

Rude? Tacky? Socially inappropriate? Tact-less? Inelegant? Crude?

Doesn't matter how much money you make, what your educational level, what you wear, or how crunchy you are, if you're *encouraging* your kids to pee on the *playground*, I will personally consider you crude/tacky/not someone to be friends with.


If you _mean_ rude and crude, _say_ rude and crude. When you use the term "low class" or "lower class" instead, you are saying that lower socioeconomic level = rude & crude. If you use the term "low class" to mean "lacking in elegance in dress or behavior", you are saying that people who are of a lower socioeconomic level are lacking in elegance in dress or behavior. This concept can be extrapolated to many other racial, cultural, ethnic and religious slurs.

Sorry for the hijack...


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## pixiepunk

Quote:

1. I think doing this regularly (as opposed to in an emergency, and in particular because you have a germ-phobia of public restrooms) gives the impression that public decorum and manners are less important than your kid being able to be "free" and for you to be spared any inconvenience. And also, there's kind of this attitude of "How could anyone be offended by the sight of my precious babe's genitalia?" That sort of thing. It strikes me as me-first.

2. It does seem to be waaay more common for boys to be doing this than girls, and I don't think it's all because of the technical issues. I think there's some weird "boys will be boys and their penises have needs" thing going on here. I also find that moms seem to find naked boykids "cute" and giggleworthy in a particular way that really differs from their attitude towards naked girlkids. It's kind of like, "Oh look at the wee man and his weewee!" for boys, but "Honey, that's dirty, put your clothes on" for girls.
1) for us, and for our friends who do the same, it is not about *mom*, it is about respecting our kids and their need to relieve themselves in a timely fashion. most of us in our FNL mom's group practice EC with our little ones, and this is an extension of that. it's responding to your child's need to eliminate rather than forcing them to eliminate in their pants. to me, *that's* what seems really selfish and mom-centric. ignoring your child's need to eliminate and then changing his/her diaper on *your* schedule is about listening to your own needs and desires, not about watching your child's cues and responding to their needs accordingly. honestly, it truly grosses me out that moms would rather stick their older toddlers in diapers and force the kid to soil him/herself than have to deal with helping them to pee outside.

2)this may be true for some, but definitely not me. i still occasionally use the EC hold for my 4 yo DD if we can't get to a potty (she hasn't perfected a squat yet, which we do work on when we're camping). but she's been PL'd since she was about 26 months, so it's usually possible for her to hold it till we get to a potty these days. when it wasn't, i popped DS on my back in the MT, and helped her pee in the bushes same as i do now for DS, because the option was wet pants and an upset kid, or forcing them to wear diapers when we were out so i didn't have to deal with it. my kids can usually tell me how urgent it is and whether it's an imminent accident or something we have time to address and we go from there. but no way am i going to let my kid soil themselves if i can possibly avoid it. accidents happen, but never because of me saying, sorry kid, hold it or piss in your pants cuz we're not peeing in the bushes.


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## orangefoot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pixiepunk* 
1) for us, and for our friends who do the same, it is not about *mom*, it is about respecting our kids and their need to relieve themselves in a timely fashion. most of us in our FNL mom's group practice EC with our little ones, and this is an extension of that. it's responding to your child's need to eliminate rather than forcing them to eliminate in their pants. to me, *that's* what seems really selfish and mom-centric. ignoring your child's need to eliminate and then changing his/her diaper on *your* schedule is about listening to your own needs and desires, not about watching your child's cues and responding to their needs accordingly. honestly, it truly grosses me out that moms would rather stick their older toddlers in diapers and force the kid to soil him/herself than have to deal with helping them to pee outside.

2)this may be true for some, but definitely not me. i still occasionally use the EC hold for my 4 yo DD if we can't get to a potty (she hasn't perfected a squat yet, which we do work on when we're camping). but she's been PL'd since she was about 26 months, so it's usually possible for her to hold it till we get to a potty these days. when it wasn't, i popped DS on my back in the MT, and helped her pee in the bushes same as i do now for DS, because the option was wet pants and an upset kid, or forcing them to wear diapers when we were out so i didn't have to deal with it. my kids can usually tell me how urgent it is and whether it's an imminent accident or something we have time to address and we go from there. but no way am i going to let my kid soil themselves if i can possibly avoid it. accidents happen, but never because of me saying, sorry kid, hold it or piss in your pants cuz we're not peeing in the bushes.









: ECing puts lots of thngs in a different light.

Keeping children in nappies til they are older is a real issue I think and makes children's elimination unacceptable and 'hidden' kind of thing.

I used to go to the park every Wednesday morning with friend and her son who was the same age as dd and though she was potty happy at 18 months he was still in nappies at age 4. Every single wednesday morning that poor boy would poo in his nappy at around 10.30am and his mum would let him keep playing til 11ish then put him in his pushchair and take him home - then I hope she changed him.

If he had pooed on the grass there would have been a right hoo-ha but having poo in his nappy for an hour isn't a problem. Society is mad.


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## loraxc

Quote:

If he had pooed on the grass there would have been a right hoo-ha but having poo in his nappy for an hour isn't a problem. Society is mad.
Uh, no, society is aware that poop is germy and unpleasant to step in!

FWIW, I never left my CD'ed toddler in poop for anywhere near an hour. She used to fight me about changes all the time, though. That's what's a bit odd about the "diapering is horrid and mean to your child" POV for me--dude, obviously you've never tried to convince my kid to be changed! I WANTED to get her out of that wet or dirty dipe, believe me.


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## orangefoot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
Uh, no, society is aware that poop is germy and unpleasant to step in!


Ok I'm going a bit OT here but if he pooed on the grass, mum picked it up in a bag and took it home would that be ok? As I see it lots of children are carrying their poo home in a 'bag' stuck to their bums and it would be easier for their mums to carry it in a bag away from their skin.


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## pixiepunk

OK, let me get this straight... poop is germy and unpleasant to step in, but perfect acceptable to have squished up next to your child's delicate skin and genitals for an hour? you'd rather have it on your child than on the bottom of your shoe?







: pardom me while i go uke


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## Simplicity

In case of emergency I think it's ok. However, I tend to agree that I don't think this is something to be teaching boys to do.

although adults.. I live in an area that has tons of bars, clubs, restaurants and at times tons of people. At least a few times a week I see people peeing in public and the first thing I think is I live here and the last thing I want to see is you peeing Or my children to see you. It's not ok. Ewww.

Also, Kids peeing at a playground or any area where there are a big group of kids is a danger I think. Think of all the creepy adults who may be watching your child pee. In the age of digital cameras and cell phone camera's I'm also thinking this is a bad thing! I'm sorry but it's just not something I'm comfortable with. If it's an emergency... maybe, if it's not it should be done in a restroom or private area. Not in public.


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## mamahart

"If you mean rude and crude, say rude and crude. When you use the term "low class" or "lower class" instead, you are saying that lower socioeconomic level = rude & crude. If you use the term "low class" to mean "lacking in elegance in dress or behavior", you are saying that people who are of a lower socioeconomic level are lacking in elegance in dress or behavior. This concept can be extrapolated to many other racial, cultural, ethnic and religious slurs. "

Yes! I think this is preferable. This thread has some very interesting ideas wrapped throughout it. I think it has made a lot of people reflect on how we feel about some basic concepts. Fascinating!!


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## loraxc

Quote:

Ok I'm going a bit OT here but if he pooed on the grass, mum picked it up in a bag and took it home would that be ok?
No, not for my DD. Her poop was still quite soft when she was in diapers and still nursing. It would have left a lot of residue on the grass.

Quote:

OK, let me get this straight... poop is germy and unpleasant to step in, but perfect acceptable to have squished up next to your child's delicate skin and genitals for an hour? you'd rather have it on your child than on the bottom of your shoe?
If you'd read my PP, you would have seen that I said I'd never left my DD in a poopy dipe for an hour (unless she was asleep and I was unaware).

But, yes, given the choice, I'd rather have my child's poop on my child's bum for 10 minutes than my child's poop all over the ground in a public place for the next week.







Is this thread going to go down the "diapering is child abuse" road? Are we now in favor of pooping in public, too?


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## Queen of my Castle

Wow, what a thread! I'm not going to comment on the boy/girl thing. No matter, really. At this age this really doesn't bother me one bit, especially if it's helping to educate some younger kids.
To echo others, there is a huge difference between adults/older children being _encouraged_ to pee publicly or doing it often. However, I'm not sure these kids/toddlers were _encouraged_ to pee on a tree anyway, weren't they just allowed? And I don't think kids are always going around peeing everywhere, or that we have to worry about hundreds of toddlers peeing all over parks. This was a few kids who were peeing on a tree for fun. At this age I think it's more about the need and learning, it's interesting for the smaller kids too.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *attachedmamaof3* 
It's an innocent thing that they'll soon outgrow, not a big deal and IMO, certianly not "inappropriate, disgusting or gross". They're children for crying out loud.

Yep, I agree. Children and innocence need to be protected. If it becomes a 'habit' that needs to be dealt with later. I don't really know too many people with this 'habit' though.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pixiepunk* 
i hate to break to you all, but squirrels, chipmunks, birds, stray cats, possibly rats and other animalia who frequent public parks are rarely, if ever, toilet trained (though i'm sure there's a You Tube video somewhere to prove me wrong). there is likely pee and poop on said tree and surrounding leaves, sticks and other things your child might pick up and even put in his/her mouth.

this thread is really too much









it is our obsession with cleanliness in this culture which is largely responsible for increasingly virulent strains of all kinds of diseases. and there have actually been studies, i believe there was one in Germany (can't remember, saw it on a PBS documentary a while back) that showed that kids who grew up on farms and were exposed regularly to small amounts of fecal matter, dirt and germs were healthier, less likely to have allergies, and had stronger immune systems than their clean-living urban and suburban counterparts.

Yes, it's a dirty, dirty world. That's why we wash our hands. And that's why we're going to start selling dirt on ebay.

To finish up, I"m going to share a little story even I was mildly shocked by. Down at my inlaws' farm one of the employees' young, potty-learning boy squatted down in the middle of the driveway to poop. (He often runs around naked in the summer) His mother calls out, 'Johnny! Not there! Go in the grass!'

Rural Ontario, Canada. We're truly 'backwoods' up here, to put it nicely.
A


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## tatermom

Very interesting thread! When DS1 was a baby and I saw toddlers peeing (both boys and girls, equally) at our apartment complex's playground I used to be really grossed out (they used a tree, not the playground equipment, but I still thought it was really inappropriate). But now that DS1 is potty learning, I see it as a necessity. I still feel kind of bad when we have to use a public place, for some of the reasons mentioned (mainly that I think it is disrespectful to the people around us) but I also think it is necessary to the potty learning process for DS. I hope the people around us understand that he's just a little kid trying to train his bladder, not trying to be offensive to others. We try to be discreet as much as possible, but, yes, DS uses a tree/bush/gutter about once a day. It would be counterproductive to keep him in diapers when he is at this point in the PL process-- he can hold it for a long time but rarely knows ahead of time that he has to go. FTR, I'd do the same for a daughter.


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## rahrahgobg

Quote:

i'd rather she not run thru someone's pee, kid or dog. that's why there are no dogs allowed in our park.
I'm sure there are raccoons that frequent the park at night, birds go all over the place, squirrels do their business wherever and all the other animals that roam the park pee on the grounds as well. It isn't just the dogs you have to worry about.

Vicki


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## nznavo

This is so normal where I live in Asia. Boys and girls both do it. If there's no nature around they tend to do it in drains. Girls are held over the grass/drain/whatever so that the pee doesn't get on their clothing or feet. It doesn't bother me at all. That said, I have never seen a kid poop in public and don't really want to.


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## rahrahgobg

Ok - The park in question does not have a bathroom? There is no way I would go across the street to take my child to a public bathroom at an establishment where I felt I had to buy something to use it. They aren't there for the park bathroom. The park should put one in. Of course if the park put a port-a-potty in, I'd still let my DS pee on a tree.

There is a difference between a grown man peeing on a tree in public and a child. A BIG difference. You can't compare the two. It isn't indecent exposure (crime) when a 3YO does it.

My DS does this and normally by the time I catch him at the park doing it, it's too late. He knows to go to the bathroom in public establishments, and asks, but when he is at a park, he just goes when nature calls. Then the girls try to do what he did. The mom's don't care.

This country can be kind of prude when it comes to awareness of the body. If you have a problem with it, then you have to deal with it, but mom's will continue to let their children pee on trees in parks when there are no bathrooms around. It's dangerous for a child to hold it long (can cause UTIs), and they can't hold it long. I'd rather them pee on a tree than pee in their pants.

Vicki


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## meaghann

I have no prob seeing little boys pee against a tree and don't feel disgusted by the idea. Since I just don't see grown men doing this at all ever, I don't sense a growing dilemma but don't deny it could encourage an adult rogue urinator. We own a little plastic container with a flat bottom called a Little John with an adapter called Lady J for when you need to #1 in inconvenient places. My boys (even the smaller one), really like using the Little John, and it has helped us on on numerous occassions outside of hiking/camping. I think I found it either at Cabela's or Campmor. Btw, it is perfectly easy and unmessy for an adult woman to use inside a minivan with minimal undressing.


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## erthe_mama

There's also this: http://www.packinpotty.com/packinpotty.html


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## pigpokey

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meaghann* 
Since I just don't see grown men doing this at all ever, I don't sense a growing dilemma but don't deny it could encourage an adult rogue urinator.

They don't do it sober. Alcohol makes 'em do it.


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## Mommyof2DS

They could have used a little more privacy, but peeing on a tree seems a perfectly logical course of action for boys with nowhere else to go.


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## RRMum

I have to say I think for kids under 5 it's fine. I don't think anyone needs to be concerned about forming lifelong urban tree-peeing habits with such young kids. They will grow out of so many things, and they should grow out of this, especially if parents start letting them know that it is best to find privacy when they can. My one concern is about creepy folks that might be interested in getting a peek, makes my stomach turn to think about it. We bring a potty everywhere, and usually try to find a little privacy, but sometimes it's impossible. Our LO is petrified of public toilets, but happy to drop trousers and pee in the grass or use his own mini potty chair. For me it can mean avoiding a huge tantrum and maintaining potty learning successes.


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## heket

Wow, talk about resurrecting a 6 year old thread!


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