# Coats and carseats



## BetsyS (Nov 8, 2004)

It was cold here this morning, so it got me thinking.

My oldest is 3 years old, and it seems that every year I read something different about wearing coats and the carseat. Does anyone have links to where they've made up their minds from?

FWIW, we live in Georgia. Our coats are one layer of fleece. The baby's coat is a little thicker, like a sweatshirt. These are their major winter coats. Most days (probably 85% of the time), we go without coats, and I layer them up. So, they'll have on an undershirt, a t-shirt, and overalls. Then, occasionally the fleece/sweatshirt weight coats.

Is it okay to leave these things on?

Thanks, ya'll. Just looking for better information to make a decision.


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## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

Yup, Fleece coats, and most sweaters are fine. When people say that coats are not okay under car seats, they mean the big thick bulky ones that kids wear in my area. Those coats are puffy enough that most people loosen the car seat straps to make it fit. In a collision the coat compresses and the child could come out of the seat.

Basically, as long as the harness is just as tight WITH the coat as it is WITHOUT it, you are fine.


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## Erica09M (Jul 28, 2008)

Fleece is great for the car seat. If it's really cold, you can put your child in the car seat, harness them in, then put the coat on over them backwards. You can also buy or make a poncho... also known as a "car seat poncho" from fleece that will go over the harness. You can also do the coat trick: http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=29772 I'd only use this idea if the coat isn't puffy because the back of the coat is still within the harness.

Anything puffy under the harness gives parents a false since of tightness in their child's harness. In an accident, the coat will compress and leave slack in the harness... which could potentially lead to the child being ejected from their car seat.

A good way to tell if the coat is too puffy for the car seat is to put the child in the car seat with normal clothes on, tighten the harness. Take the child out of the car seat WITH OUT loosening the harness. Put the child's coat on them, put them back in the car seat without moving the harness. If you can buckle them back in, then it's fine. If you can't, then it's too puffy.

There is a good video on youtube, and I've taken some photos as well on the difference in the harness with a fleece sleeper on vs. a winter coat. If I can find my photos on the computer, I'll post them (it's been a long time).


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## just_lily (Feb 29, 2008)

As a Canadian, I am seriously jealous of your fleece winter coats. We got SNOW this week, and I had to dress four kids in full snowsuits. That was barrells of fun.

Last year my kid was still in a bucket seat, so it was easy to strap her in the seat and then bundle her up in blankets. Now that she is in a True Fit, winter wear is a HUGE pain! And with her boots on her feet touch the back of the seat for the first time and it is wierding her out.

I know puffy coats are out, but has anyone had success with kids wearing just their snowpants in the car? I am hoping I could still get the straps tight enough if I just take off her jacket (and boots, if they are wet) but keep on her pants. I haven't tried it yet, but it would make life a lot easier if I didn't have to take EVERYTHING off her every time.


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## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

Try it. Tighten the straps with her just wearing street clothes, and then see if you can get her in with her snowpants. It's worth a try, right? If not, could you carry the snow pants and try long underwear under her pants for the car ride? Or lined splash pants?

(I'm sympathetic on the snow... we had flurries last night here too!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UM1LJ...rom=PL&index=4

This is an excellent video, and shows the dangers of loose straps and gives lots of options.


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## shanniesue2 (Jul 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Erica09M* 
Anything puffy under the harness gives parents a false since of tightness in their child's harness. In an accident, the coat will compress and leave slack in the harness... which could potentially lead to the child being ejected from their car seat.

A good way to tell if the coat is too puffy for the car seat is to put the child in the car seat with normal clothes on, tighten the harness. Take the child out of the car seat WITH OUT loosening the harness. Put the child's coat on them, put them back in the car seat without moving the harness. If you can buckle them back in, then it's fine. If you can't, then it's too puffy.

.

Okay, I know my question is OT (and probably stupid)... but this post got me wondering. We cloth diaper the vast majority of the time. Occasionally, DS will have a sposie on when he's in the carseat. When this happens, we have to tighten the carseat straps more than normal. Then when he's back in a CD, the straps are too short to get him in. Is there the same safety issue with CDs vs. sposies as there is with fluffly coats vs. layering??


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## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

Cloth diapering isn't usually an issue, because the children are sitting on them and they are already compressed. However, if you are noticing a visible difference between sposie and cloth, I would tighten those straps down a bit more when he's in cloth.


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## frugalmama (Sep 12, 2009)

okay this is an odd question - but what if your car doesn't have heat?

We have had several cars with no heat, and my brother's car also has no heat. When it's cold, a fleece isn't going to work.


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## TheGirls (Jan 8, 2007)

You can use blankets, coats, etc OVER the harness if you need more. I often throw a blanket on our heater for 10 mins before we leave so it gets nice and warm, then throw it over the baby in her seat (after doing the harness). Keeps her toasty until the heat kicks in.


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## femalephish (Feb 3, 2009)

Wait- how do you get your child out to the car? You alk them outside in the snow without a jacket? Or you get them in it and then take it iff 5 seconds later? My DD (3 months) is already in a head-to-toe snowsuit looking thing somedays! I didn't even _know_ this was an issue! Help!

nak.


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## kitikatuka (Jul 10, 2009)

This is a very timely thread which I will be watching closely. In Vermont, we have *cold* weather, and I've been fretting over how to deal with below freezing weather and the car seat...without resorting to letting the car heat up/idle for 20 minutes. I wouldn't want to sit in the car on a 10° F morning without a coat!

A "pre-warmed" blanket is a good idea - although I only have those low heat registers that run along the walls, so warming a blanket will be awkward.


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## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *femalephish* 
Wait- how do you get your child out to the car? You alk them outside in the snow without a jacket? Or you get them in it and then take it iff 5 seconds later? My DD (3 months) is already in a head-to-toe snowsuit looking thing somedays! I didn't even _know_ this was an issue! Help!

nak.

I try to buy what we call the "car jacket". It's a thinner coat, generally one layer of fleece and a nylon layer, with mittens and a hat. If it's really cold, I add a blanket.

For daycare kids who come with one coat, I do the coat trick as shown in the Youtube Video I posted. It has lots of ideas and can explain it a little better, since it has visuals.

What kind of snowsuit is your DD wearing? If it's the puffy kind, look for a fleecy one. If it's big enough that you have to loosent the straps to make it fit, then in a collision your DD would be unsafe. For an infant in a carrier type seat, you can buy a cover that looks like a shower cap that will cover her entirely, keeping her warm and snug without interfering with the car seat straps.


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## TheGirls (Jan 8, 2007)

I usually just wrap her in the blanket to run out to the car, but it's about 3 steps from the door to the car for me, and she's still little (17months). For an older child I'd try a carseat poncho or a light jacket in most weather. For a few seconds of exposure, a heavy jacket usually isn't necessary, unless the windchill is very very cold (below -10 I start getting more concerned). That happens maybe once a year here. I'm in CNY, and it gets quite cold here.

For a longer trip (walk in from the mall parking lot) I'd consider putting the coat on then taking it off for the car if it's colder than, say, 20 degrees windchill. Around 40 I find I start needing the winter coat if we're outside for a long time (playing at the park, walk around the zoo).

For an infant I'd just tuck the baby under my coat though. Its easy when they're small. Alex never actually had a snowsuit, I just wore her under mine for the first winter.


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## boheime (Oct 25, 2005)

We try to get by with fleece jackets any time we can. If we have to use coats, we put them on until we get to the van, take them off inside the van, get buckled, and then cover up with the coats like they were blankets.


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## Erica09M (Jul 28, 2008)

A lot of people assume that fleece won't work in their cold weather. Fleece is amazingly warm, seriously. Looks are decieving because it's not bulky... which most people associate warmth with. This is why fleece is perfect for the winter because it's not bulky, super warm, and safe for the car seat.

If you're having doubts about fleece, try it out yourself.

We only cloth diaper, and have never had an issue with the harness.

We keep blankets in the car for extra warmth. However, I'd never drive a car that didn't have heat. I'd be looking into other options before winter hit. But that's just me. Our the heat in my car (well, the blower) went out last February and I didn't drive it until it got fixed. Thankfully we had the resources to get it fixed the same day it happened.

I take my girls out to the car in the same thing they wear in their car seats. It takes us less than a minute to get from the door to the car. It only takes a minute to get from the car into a store. I throw a blanket over the baby. Sometimes we'll bring along their coats and put them on them when we get out of the car if it's really, really windy.


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## BetsyS (Nov 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TheGirls* 
Around 40 I find I start needing the winter coat if we're outside for a long time (playing at the park, walk around the zoo).

So, the reason we don't need much in the way of winter coats is that 40 is considered WAY TOO COLD for outdoor activity around here.







I try not to leave my house if it's that cold.


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## TheGirls (Jan 8, 2007)

douple post...


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## TheGirls (Jan 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BetsyS* 
So, the reason we don't need much in the way of winter coats is that 40 is considered WAY TOO COLD for outdoor activity around here.







I try not to leave my house if it's that cold.









If I stayed in for that kind of weather I'd need to hole up now (temps are in the 40's now) and not come out until April.







Cooler weather is great for outdoor activity because you don't sweat so much! Of course, this is the warmest place I've ever lived, so winter runs in my blood.

That said, if you don't go out when it's under 40, you shouldn't need anything warmer than a light fleece jacket, so you should be in good shape as far as carseat harnesses!


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## lness (Jul 14, 2009)

We have a light hooded jacket for DD, and always a blanket stays in the car. So she can be wrapped up after strapping in if we need to (the heater doesn't work well). And I'll probably pick up a hat and mittens for her, to keep those little fingers & ears warm. But we live in south Florida, we might get 1 or 2 nights of frost all winter, so even with a bad heater in the car it's not a big problem. It'll almost never gets lower than the 40s even at night, so I'm mostly worried about when we travel north to visit relatives (we're going to Ohio for Thanksgiving, and most of my family lives in Chicago







).
I don't think I need to get her a big puffy coat just for a trip or 2 in the cold months, right?


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## cyberfish (Aug 13, 2005)

I use microwave heat pads (we use them around the house, too) for those moments before the car gets warm. I sew a rectangle out of calico, put some rice in, sew it shut, and microwave it for a minute. My daugher holds it on her lap and I throw a blanket or her coat over her in her car seat. The warmth keeps her happy even after the car's heat kicks in.

Sometimes she wears her coat out to the car and other times we just run for it.

You can do it with an old pillowcase or a large sock also, in a pinch.


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## LizaBear (Feb 1, 2003)

We walk them out in their coats - take it off in the car/van - and buckle them up.

They put the coats on backwards over the harness once it's done up.

Those infant suits are NOT safe.


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## Leav97 (Oct 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Erica09M* 
A lot of people assume that fleece won't work in their cold weather. Fleece is amazingly warm, seriously. Looks are decieving because it's not bulky... which most people associate warmth with. This is why fleece is perfect for the winter because it's not bulky, super warm, and safe for the car seat.

If you're having doubts about fleece, try it out yourself.


Fleece is very cold if there is any wind.


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## Bromache (Jan 24, 2008)

Okay, I'm genuinely confused... In the video showing the difference between the straps with and without a snowsuit, what kind of material is it made of that it makes such a huge difference yet can't be squished down by tightening the straps more? I mean, if it's that much looser that the kid can slip out like they show, I just can't imagine that it was REALLY as tight as it could have been unless the snowsuit is made of some special material that can't be squished by hand yet will compress right to their skin by crash impact. Any jacket I've ever seen that is that puffy to make such a difference is also super squishy. I just don't see how it's really possible to have the child slip out of the straps unless they weren't tightened as much as they could have been. And they'd still be wearing the snowsuit if there was a crash, so wouldn't that hold them in somewhat, too? Help me out here, 'cause logically, this is not making sense to me.









Are there crash-test-dummy-in-snowsuits videos available?


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

Give it a try! All that extra fabric just won't let you tighten the harness the way it needs to be tightened.

Try it like this: take your kid out to the car in regular street clothes. Tighten the harness properly (no pinchable slack at the shoulders). Then remove your child without loosening the straps, put the child in a puffy jacket/snow suit, and try buckling him/her in again....you'll see what we're talking about


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bromache* 
Okay, I'm genuinely confused... In the video showing the difference between the straps with and without a snowsuit, what kind of material is it made of that it makes such a huge difference yet can't be squished down by tightening the straps more?

Most of us aren't physically able (even if we were willing to try) to exert the same amount of force on a carseat harness adjuster strap that occurs during a crash.


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## pers (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *just_lily* 
As a Canadian, I am seriously jealous of your fleece winter coats. We got SNOW this week, and I had to dress four kids in full snowsuits. That was barrells of fun.

Last year my kid was still in a bucket seat, so it was easy to strap her in the seat and then bundle her up in blankets. Now that she is in a True Fit, winter wear is a HUGE pain! And with her boots on her feet touch the back of the seat for the first time and it is wierding her out.

I know puffy coats are out, but has anyone had success with kids wearing just their snowpants in the car? I am hoping I could still get the straps tight enough if I just take off her jacket (and boots, if they are wet) but keep on her pants. I haven't tried it yet, but it would make life a lot easier if I didn't have to take EVERYTHING off her every time.

I'm in Edmonton. We had snow last week too, but it wasn't that cold here - I think Eastern provinces got hit a bit harder with cold weather though?

I found my kid's snowpants were too bulky. But test it yourself by putting her in the seat in snowpants then leaving the straps in the same position and trying again without snowpants. If the straps are still tight enough, then you know the pants aren't making a difference and you are good to go.

I use one of these fleece buntings up to about age two or so (at least I think that is the newer version of what I use - just fleece, with no extra padding or anything - and mine was something like $5 at the thrift store). I find it fits well in the carseat and keeps baby very warm since it is all once piece. I can also put a normal puffy jacket over it whenever not in the carseat (though it by itself is warm enough to surprisingly cold temperature - including through last week's snow) and use a blanket or coat as blanket over the straps in the van.

My older kids use just fleece coats in the van through most of the winter - I find it keeps them warm enough through the brief transition of getting strapped in - then put coat on over the straps backwards if needed. Or I do the unzip the coat, make sure it is lying as flat as possible behind them and there is no bulk interfering with the straps, the zip again over the harness trick which helps a ton.

I don't do snowsuits/snow pants except for playing in the snow or long walks in the stroller. Too much of a hassle for just running around town or to school or whatever.

Except when it gets down to about -40, then all bets are off and I have to admit that I do whatever needed to keep warm and just manage as best I can with the carseat straps. Thank goodness we only have a week or two of that weather, and I don't take the kids out any more than I absolutely have to.


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## amlikam (Nov 19, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Leav97* 
Fleece is very cold if there is any wind.









"polar" fleece is different than regular fleece which is indeed very chilly....


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## Bromache (Jan 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maedze* 
Give it a try! All that extra fabric just won't let you tighten the harness the way it needs to be tightened.

Try it like this: take your kid out to the car in regular street clothes. Tighten the harness properly (no pinchable slack at the shoulders). Then remove your child without loosening the straps, put the child in a puffy jacket/snow suit, and try buckling him/her in again....you'll see what we're talking about









I promise, I'm not trying to be difficult







, but... if I took my kid and strapped him in completely naked to the recommended tightness for safety, then put his normal diaper and clothes on and tried to strap him back in, the straps would also be too tight. Every layer of fabric is going to take up space. But no one is worried about normal clothes and diapers compressing enough to allow a kid to fly out of their carseat in an accident. So, unless the snowsuit was REALLY bulky and a special material that doesn't compress unless under certain circumstances, I still don't see how a kid could come out of their straps unless they were really too loose and/or the chest buckle was not in the right place at all (like down by the child's belly button or something). Or I'm completely stupid and not getting this!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
Most of us aren't physically able (even if we were willing to try) to exert the same amount of force on a carseat harness adjuster strap that occurs during a crash.

This is very true...

ETA: I DO plan to follow these safety precautions, by the way. I'm a very cautious person, and having been in TWO car accidents in the past year (one quite major), I definitely won't take chances. I'm just not convinced that there's as much of a danger as that video portrayed is all.


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

You are NOT being difficult or stupid, don't worry









If anything, I'm not explaining it well enough.

Ok, the big difference is compressibility. Typical street clothes and polar fleece fit the body. They aren't individually puffy. There aren't folds of clothes or pockets of fluff or air. So yes, while you'd be able to get the straps tighter on a naked baby compared to a baby in a onesie and cottom pants, that material from those clothes won't compress significantly in an accident.

The force put on the harness during a high speed crash is incredible, FAR beyond what you or I could ever hope to mimic manually. As the body impacts the harness, all that material just squashes down. Even the child's chest and abdomen become temporarily deformed (and if all goes well, they go back to normal immediately







)

While you probably couldn't yank your child out of the harness in a heavy snow suit without seriously injuring her, the forces of an accident have no such moral compunction, kwim? Baby's chest will cave in, shoulders will twist down, and the body will come right out of the harness.

Even in cases where the child isn't ejected, the extra slack introduced by the puff means the child's body is moving that much farther. The further the body moves, the greater the statistical occurrence of serious or fatal spinal and head injuries. The child's head will also fly out of the shell of the seat more, impacting other parts of the vehicle and increasing the risk of serious or fatal head injuries.

Does that make better sense?


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## Bromache (Jan 24, 2008)

I agree with this:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maedze* 
Even in cases where the child isn't ejected, the extra slack introduced by the puff means the child's body is moving that much farther. The further the body moves, the greater the statistical occurrence of serious or fatal spinal and head injuries. The child's head will also fly out of the shell of the seat more, impacting other parts of the vehicle and increasing the risk of serious or fatal head injuries.

But still not convinced on this point:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maedze* 
While you probably couldn't yank your child out of the harness in a heavy snow suit without seriously injuring her, the forces of an accident have no such moral compunction, kwim? Baby's chest will cave in, shoulders will twist down, and the body will come right out of the harness.

Where are the Mythbusters when you need them?







Seriously, though, it's not worth the risk, obviously. I wish more people would use car seats properly AT ALL. Oh, well. Thanks for the explanation.


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

Unfortunately I have actually seen it happen. Ok, not happen, but I've arrived at the aftermath









I do love Mythbusters...it's one of my favorite shows!


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## pumpkinhead (Sep 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amlikam* 
"polar" fleece is different than regular fleece which is indeed very chilly....

Polar fleece is thicker, but unless they're wearing an outer, wind breaking, shell, the wind goes right on through it. Columbia makes really nice fleece jackets with a detachable, outer, wind breaking shell. You can get similar jackets at MEC or REI. They're still not bulky and are so much warmer than just a layer of fleece. Fleece is wonderful and will keep you toasty with just one layer, but you need something windproof over top.


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## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pumpkinhead* 
Polar fleece is thicker, but unless they're wearing an outer, wind breaking, shell, the wind goes right on through it. Columbia makes really nice fleece jackets with a detachable, outer, wind breaking shell. You can get similar jackets at MEC or REI. They're still not bulky and are so much warmer than just a layer of fleece. Fleece is wonderful and will keep you toasty with just one layer, but you need something windproof over top.









: And I do think that a fleece layer and a nylon layer are not enough "puff" to interfere with the harness, while keeping kids warm enough (with mitts and hats) to get to the car. Now, the coat the G's mother bought her... we've already had a nice informative chat about the coat trick.


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## just_lily (Feb 29, 2008)

I personally have an LL Bean fleece jacket that is completely wind proof without a shell. And I wore it all last year, even on the coldest of days. Sometimes I would have an extra layer underneath, but it was all I needed. And we get -25C days here, and I would be outside for 20 minutes or more at a time.

Not sure if they make kids ones though.


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## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *just_lily* 
I personally have an LL Bean fleece jacket that is completely wind proof without a shell. And I wore it all last year, even on the coldest of days. Sometimes I would have an extra layer underneath, but it was all I needed. And we get -25C days here, and I would be outside for 20 minutes or more at a time.

Not sure if they make kids ones though.

What's warm enough to be warm is a very individual thing. I like to have a windproof layer on my kid, even if I don't feel the need for one myself. YMMV.


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## CrunchyChristianMama (Dec 5, 2008)

Just wanted to put it out there that at the hospital where I delivered my DD they brought around an infant seat with a snowsuit still buckled in it. It was an actual one that a police officer brought in from a crash that the baby had been ejected from.







The baby survived, but the visual was quite memorable. The police officer wanted to make sure that every new parent saw it and remembered to not put their baby in a snowsuit in a carseat.


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