# Getting rid of 5-point harness in carseat



## Yulia_R (Jan 7, 2006)

Hi wise mamas,

I really need your advice and input. My son is 3.5 and 38 lbs and is tall (the size of a 5 year old). My husband is very insistent that this is time to switch his car seat from five point harness to its belt (shoulder-to hip) version. I, however, is very hesitant about it. I just googled it and found a video that just broke my heart. Now I really don't want to do that.






What do you think about the issue? Also a video mentioned Britax Regent car seat that can hold a kid up to 80 lbs in a five-point harness. Have anyone tried those? Are they really safer?

I'd very much appreciate any input.
thanks in advance,
Yulia.


----------



## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

What seat is he currently in? If he is "very tall", he may have outgrown many 40-pound-harness seats by height.


----------



## Yulia_R (Jan 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
What seat is he currently in? If he is "very tall", he may have outgrown many 40-pound-harness seats by height.

Yes, my husband just made me realize that he did outgrow it. I, however, would rather purchase this new carseat that can hold in 5-point harness up to 80 lbs. I just an NOT comfortable with a belt...


----------



## Jes'sBeth (Aug 30, 2004)

I would suggest that you look at a FF harnessed seat that converts to a good booster when you're done with the harness. The Graco Nautilus and the Britax Frontier are great choices. I'm guessing that you have a 3 in 1 seat which makes a notoriously poor booster.

It is recommended that children stay in a harness until they are developmentally ready for a booster in addition to being large enough. In Canada your son has not yet reached the 40 lb minimum for a booster though the law is different depending on where you are. Developmental readiness is shown when the child sits correctly in a booster every time (doesn't wiggle around so that the seat belt is sitting over the correct parts of his body every time) and doesn't fall asleep and in general knows that the seatbelt is supposed to be where it is all the time.

That's usually around 5. So I wouldn't move him now (my almost 4 yr old is nowhere near ready for a booster yet) If his seat still fits harnessed you can just leave him in it until he outgrows it and then get a good dedicated booster or go for a high weight harness/ booster combination seat. Hope that helps!


----------



## Jes'sBeth (Aug 30, 2004)

The graco nautilus is a very reasonably priced combo seat. You need to switch to booster mode until you get a different harnessed seat if he has outgrown the seat.


----------



## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Yes. A child that age should be harnessed, but a properly used booster is safeR than an improperly used (outgrown) harness. I also echo the recommendation of a Nautilus, which fits tall thin children very nicely and should keep him harnessed until he is ready for a booster.


----------



## morganeldi (Nov 9, 2007)

Just wanted to put in another vote for a graco nautilus. My ds is just about 3 and also 38 lbs and the height of a 5 year old and I just LOVE this seat. It fits him very well and he really likes it, and still has growing room. It harnesses to 65 lbs. Also love the built in cup holder...it goes from a 5 pt harness, to a high back booster, and then a low back booster so it is the last seat he will need. It's also reasonably priced.

You could go with a regent, but they are huuuuge and they do not convert to a booster later on and are also not FFA approved so you couldn't take them on an airplane.


----------



## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

At 3, I'd definitely get a harnessed seat. Your DS is exaclty a month older than my DD and she's light years away from booster maturity.


----------



## Yulia_R (Jan 7, 2006)

Thank you so much, ladies!

Tonight I'll be seriously discussing with dh buying Britax Frontier for both of our kids.

Thanks again!


----------



## goodheartedmama (Feb 1, 2007)

If you are interested in the Regent still, I highly recommend it. My just turned 3 year old is 42 inches and 42 pounds. As a child that is on the large side (understatement, perhaps), I find the Regent to be 100% necessary. The top harness slot height is 1.5 inches taller than the nautilus and frontier and that 1.5 inch difference is a big one for a big child. Most kids--it's not so necessary, but it really is necessary for some kids IMO.


----------



## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

We love our Nautilus. My DD was too tall for her last car seat before she turned 3. The Nautilus can be used as a 5 point harness for up to 65 pounds and then as a high back booster with a head guard and seat belt guide up until 100 pounds or 57 inches. That's not as high as the Britax Frontier, but we couldn't really afford a Britax.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Safeguard is another good high strap height seat.

-Angela


----------



## KarenEMT (Aug 10, 2002)

I am so happy we scrimped and saved for the Regent. Our son's always been large for his age, but he is still happily riding in 5-point now at age 7. He is now 67 lb.


----------



## labdogs42 (Jan 21, 2009)

We have a Regent in my car and a nautilus in DH's car. I love both of those seats! DS is 4 and I want to keep him in a harness as long as possible.

ETA, you can buy two Nautilus's for the price of one Frontier. I'd seriously consider the nautilus!


----------



## Miasmamma (Sep 20, 2006)

Can the Nautilus be installed RF? And how do you install the Marathon RF? DD is in one and she is FF, but after watching the videos on youtube I am turning her seat. But, when I install her seat now, I put both knees in it so that all of my weight is on it in order to get the seatbelt as tight as possible. I know that I can't do that RF, so how do you make sure that it's tight enough??


----------



## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

No, the nautilus is not a rfing seat. You can install the marathan rearfacing like you would an infant seat or whatever else. You push down on the seat and tighten. I have actually climbed in my sons rfing seat on my knees while tightening. If you are using LATCH to install, you may need to flip the latch connectors around (your manual should have instructions on how to do all of this).

These videos might help: 



 and


----------



## Miasmamma (Sep 20, 2006)

Thanks! Those were very helpful! I was worried about the tethering since I have an older model vehicle, but I found a video that was very clear on how to tether! Now for another question (sorry to the OP!), I have a baby bucket type seat that is still good as it's only 3 years old but am considering another Marathon for the new baby. Can you use one from birth, or do they work better once baby is a little bigger?


----------



## sunnymw (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Miasmamma* 
Thanks! Those were very helpful! I was worried about the tethering since I have an older model vehicle, but I found a video that was very clear on how to tether! Now for another question (sorry to the OP!), I have a baby bucket type seat that is still good as it's only 3 years old but am considering another Marathon for the new baby. Can you use one from birth, or do they work better once baby is a little bigger?

The Britax convertibles generally do not fit well from birth--some babies don't fit until 3 months or more. I'd use the bucket seat and THEN get a new Marathon







. Straps RFing have to be at or below the shoulder, and the MA's straps are 10" high---which is reeeeeeeally high for a NB.


----------



## soccermama (Jul 2, 2008)

We have a Nautilus in both of our cars and our DS is 39lbs and is 41inches tall and he's a little over 3 years old!! And as far as the 5 point harness goes, we are keeping him in a harness until he's 4 years old. I've read several things about this and it's recommended that the child be both 40lbs and 4 years. Seeing that DS is almost to 40, but isn't 4 just yet... we're holding out. Plus, the Graco Nautilus's harness holds up to 65lbs!


----------



## Mommybree (Jul 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soccermama* 
We have a Nautilus in both of our cars and our DS is 39lbs and is 41inches tall and he's a little over 3 years old!! And as far as the 5 point harness goes, we are keeping him in a harness until he's 4 years old. I've read several things about this and it's recommended that the child be both 40lbs and 4 years. Seeing that DS is almost to 40, but isn't 4 just yet... we're holding out. Plus, the Graco Nautilus's harness holds up to 65lbs!

Actually, 40 lbs and 4 years is the bare minimum for booster usage, but I've seen techs say that kids should stay in the harness until 5 or 6 at the earliest rather than 4, and since you already have the Nautilus, you should be able to do that with no problem!


----------



## MacKinnon (Jun 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soccermama* 
We have a Nautilus in both of our cars and our DS is 39lbs and is 41inches tall and he's a little over 3 years old!! And as far as the 5 point harness goes, we are keeping him in a harness until he's 4 years old. I've read several things about this and it's recommended that the child be both 40lbs and 4 years. Seeing that DS is almost to 40, but isn't 4 just yet... we're holding out. Plus, the Graco Nautilus's harness holds up to 65lbs!

It's not really about 4 being a magic age, just like with 1 year olds forward facing. They are MINIMUM guidelines, not the safest, not the best, not recommended. Children are ready for boosters once they are at least 4 years old and 40lbs, ideally to the max. harnessing weight of their seat, and they are mature enough to sit still for the entire ride, every time. There is no reason to switch your Nautilus to a booster at 4 years old. He needs to be able to sit still in his booster for every ride, every time. No stretching or leaning to pick things up, no falling asleep and slipping out of position. I remind parents that each step, from rear facing to forward facing, and forward facing to a booster, is a step DOWN in safety. And one that you don't want to take until you have to!


----------



## SaraC (Jan 11, 2002)

We have the Regent and my 6 yr old/49 lbs daughter rides in it. She was in a high back booster until we had a car wreck in May 2008. She was injured(broken neck) and while I know that being restrained saved her, I just couldn't shake the feeling that she should have been in a 5pt harness. I bought the Regent that week and we have been using it for almost a year now. I know that probably next year or as she gets closer to the weight limits we will move her back to a booster but until then I am still using the Regent. I say if a child is still young(like yours) and you can buy a 5 pt for them then do so.


----------



## InchByInch (Aug 2, 2008)

Another vote here for the Britax Regent. We have one and love it.


----------



## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yulia_R* 
Also a video mentioned Britax Regent car seat that can hold a kid up to 80 lbs in a five-point harness. Have anyone tried those? Are they really safer?

My ds has been in a Regent for a few years. I LOVE his Regent and can't say enough good about it. DS is 5 years 5 months, 38lb and 43 inches (I think...). He still has PLENTY of growing room in his Regent. He will be in it for years to come.

For *my* ds the Regent is most definitely safer than a booster. My DS has autism and there is NO WAY he would be safe in a booster. He wouldn't be able to sit properly in it.

We also have a Nautilus as a spare carseat. I don't have as much experience with that one but from my experience with it, I like it. Fairly easy to install, comfortable for ds, takes up less room than the Regent, has a cup holder and "train holders" on the arms, will eventually turn into a booster. We use the Nautilus for long car rides and as a spare in case dp's parents need to drive ds somewhere.


----------



## Yulia_R (Jan 7, 2006)

My husband is very concerned about the state law. It requires kids over certain height (which our son reached long time ago and he's soon to reach a 40 lbs mark as well) to be in a booster with the shoulder to hip belt. My husband said that he's already spoken to the Frontier manufacture, but still is pretty sure that selling those car seats (5-point harness up to 80 lbs) is illegal since the low clearly states that 5-point harness should be only up to 40 lbs.

I personally couldn't care less if it's legal or not, as long as our little ones are safe. But I sure need to persuade DH to spend over $500 (if we buy for both kids) for something he considers to be illegal. Any thoughts?


----------



## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

That is absolutely untrue. Colorado state law is:

Quote:

every child, who is at least four years of age or weighs forty pounds or more, being transported in this state in a privately owned noncommercial vehicle or in a vehicle operated by a child care center, shall be properly secured by one of the following safety devices approved for a child of such age or weight by the United States department of transportation, or in a safety belt, whichever is appropriate for the child:
Your child can be in a properly used harnessed seat appropriate for his size and weight, which the Britax Frontier is.


----------



## Yulia_R (Jan 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
That is absolutely untrue. Colorado state law is:
_every child, who is at least four years of age or weighs forty pounds or more, being transported in this state in a privately owned noncommercial vehicle or in a vehicle operated by a child care center, shall be properly secured by one of the following safety devices approved for a child of such age or weight by the United States department of transportation, or in a safety belt, whichever is appropriate for the child:_

Your child can be in a properly used harnessed seat appropriate for his size and weight, which the Britax Frontier is.


Thank SO much for the support! I just showed this response of yours to dh. He said that this is not what he read. He read that the low requires booster seat ONLY from 4 years of age. He promised to look into it today again because I told him how important it is for me. I WANT those car seats, I am NOT comfortable with boosters.


----------



## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

What the law requires is that children UNDER 40 pounds MUST be in a harness, and children OVER 40 pounds MAY be in a booster that uses the seat belt. But it's easy to misread it as OVER 40 pounds MUST NOT be in a harness, unfortunately.


----------



## Yulia_R (Jan 7, 2006)

I just found this (and emailed it to dh)

http://www.state.co.us/gov_dir/leg_d...02a/sl_301.htm


----------



## Miasmamma (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnymw* 
The Britax convertibles generally do not fit well from birth--some babies don't fit until 3 months or more. I'd use the bucket seat and THEN get a new Marathon







. Straps RFing have to be at or below the shoulder, and the MA's straps are 10" high---which is reeeeeeeally high for a NB.

That's what I was thinking once I really looked at it today. Thanks!


----------



## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Right, the link you posted says "at least 4 years of age..." States do not have maximums, only minimums. You can harness your children to age 18 if you wish


----------



## FondestBianca (May 9, 2008)

Just wanted to add that if you do go out an purchase a higher weight 5-pt seat that you actually try it out right there in the store or make sure that it can be returned if it does not fit your child properly.

I have a 3 in one type carseat. rear facing, forward facing, and booster combo. It goes up to 80+ lbs... supposedly. However, my dd is 3.5, quite tall and 37-38 lbs and it's is on the verge of no longer fitting. Everything is installed properly and yet I cannot fasten the harness if she is wearing a bulky sweater or a coat. She isn't chubby by any means whatsoever but, somehow her harness just isn't working for her. The straps are at the highest setting and beginning to fall behind her shoulders and are too tight if she wears anything more than a couple layers of shirts. Not sure what willl remedy this.


----------



## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FondestBianca* 
Just wanted to add that if you do go out an purchase a higher weight 5-pt seat that you actually try it out right there in the store or make sure that it can be returned if it does not fit your child properly.

I have a 3 in one type carseat. rear facing, forward facing, and booster combo. It goes up to 80+ lbs... supposedly. However, my dd is 3.5, quite tall and 37-38 lbs and it's is on the verge of no longer fitting. Everything is installed properly and yet I cannot fasten the harness if she is wearing a bulky sweater or a coat. She isn't chubby by any means whatsoever but, somehow her harness just isn't working for her. The straps are at the highest setting and beginning to fall behind her shoulders and are too tight if she wears anything more than a couple layers of shirts. Not sure what willl remedy this.

The 3-in-1 carseats only harness to 40 pounds, not 80 (some of the newest ones to 50). If the strap slots are below her shoulders, the seat has been outgrown. And lastly, no coats in carseats! If clothing is bulky enough to affect the fit of the harness, it is too bulky: it will compress in a crash and then the child will not be properly restrained.


----------



## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
The 3-in-1 carseats only harness to 40 pounds, not 80 (some of the newest ones to 50). If the strap slots are below her shoulders, the seat has been outgrown. And lastly, no coats in carseats! If clothing is bulky enough to affect the fit of the harness, it is too bulky: it will compress in a crash and then the child will not be properly restrained.

I agree. Sunds like you need to invest in another seat since 3.5 is WAY too young for a booster.


----------



## libranbutterfly (Jan 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FondestBianca* 
Just wanted to add that if you do go out an purchase a higher weight 5-pt seat that you actually try it out right there in the store or make sure that it can be returned if it does not fit your child properly.

I have a 3 in one type carseat. rear facing, forward facing, and booster combo. It goes up to 80+ lbs... supposedly. However, my dd is 3.5, quite tall and 37-38 lbs and it's is on the verge of no longer fitting. Everything is installed properly and yet I cannot fasten the harness if she is wearing a bulky sweater or a coat. She isn't chubby by any means whatsoever but, somehow her harness just isn't working for her. The straps are at the highest setting and beginning to fall behind her shoulders and are too tight if she wears anything more than a couple layers of shirts. Not sure what willl remedy this.

ALso wanted to add that the top slot on most three in one seats is actually for booster mode only, and is not reinforced for harnessed use.If you look on the back of the seat, it should say if the top slot is for booster mode only. You could also check your manual.


----------



## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ilovemyavery* 
Children are ready for boosters once they are at least 4 years old and 40lbs, ideally to the max. harnessing weight of their seat, and they are mature enough to sit still for the entire ride, every time. There is no reason to switch your Nautilus to a booster at 4 years old. He needs to be able to sit still in his booster for every ride, every time. No stretching or leaning to pick things up, no falling asleep and slipping out of position.

Isn't this a bit unrealistic? I mean, I lean to pick things up and sometimes fall asleep in the car, and I'm 37 years old.

My 4.5yo is still in a 5pt harness, but he's going to outgrow it soon, and we will move him to a full back booster. My almost 8yo still rides in a fullback booster, but he wiggles and reaches down and leans over to try to smack his brother - I have to remind him constantly about sitting upright and making sure the seatbelt is in the right position. Our booster has wings on the side of the headrest, so if he falls asleep he is still upright.

I'm all for carseat safety, but I don't think any child, regardless of their age, would really sit still every time and never lean over or fall asleep.


----------



## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

: that is what I was thinking. I do my best to keep dd from doing the twisting thing but I am happy if she manages it 70% of the time. She is 8 and has been in a high back booster since she was not hardly 4y. I didnt have any way to get her a 5pt once she hit 40pds. With ds I have been much more fortunate to have the internet and was able to get him a seat that is 5pt up to 65 pds and it has harness strap slots really high up so that it will fit ds in height for many more years. It is the Safety First Apex. It was cheap enough that the inlaws where able to get it for ds. Since we couldnt afford it.


----------



## KC in KS (Feb 24, 2005)

I ran out and bought one as soon as they hit the market, because I LOVE our Britax Roundabout.

Two years later, I DETEST the Regent.

First, it's huge. As in, have trouble getting it in and out of our van huge. The cover doesn't fit worth anything. The positioning bar is a PITA, and in smaller vehicles has been known to move the seat far enough out that the seat belt won't reach to secure the seat. The HUGS pads on the straps - DD chewed them off.







The side pockets for storing toys - at 4.5 DD can't reach to use them.

I actually popped up here today to research moving DD to a booster - the younger kids are moving up and *someone* will be getting a new seat - but I can tell you that a second Regent is NOT an option for us.


----------



## MacKinnon (Jun 15, 2004)

I don't like my Regent either, it's a great seat, and some people love it. But if I had had the choice when I bought, it would be a Nautilus or Frontier, not a Regent. It's just not my cup of tea!

And yes, it is unrealistic to think a child will never, ever move in their seats. And that is exactly why harnesses are important. If your child is leaning over to pick up a toy when you are hit, your child will sustain a greater injury. The older they are, they better they are at sitting still in their booster/belt. When I do seat checks for booster age kids I always emphasize that it is their responsibility to be safe now, where in their car seats the car seat kept them safe, in their booster THEY keep THEMSELVES safe by sitting still and keeping the belts in the right place. If my daughter was super wiggly in the car, I wouldn't let her use a booster as back up. She isn't wiggly and sits very well, 95% of the time, so she does use a booster as back up. But on long trips, she's in a harness, because after 30 min. or so, she has trouble holding still. If you have a seat that will harness longer, like the poster I was quoting did, there is just no reason to remove the harness before you have to.


----------



## LoganBsMom (Apr 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yulia_R* 
My husband is very concerned about the state law. It requires kids over certain height (which our son reached long time ago and he's soon to reach a 40 lbs mark as well) to be in a booster with the shoulder to hip belt. My husband said that he's already spoken to the Frontier manufacture, but still is pretty sure that selling those car seats (5-point harness up to 80 lbs) is illegal since the low clearly states that 5-point harness should be only up to 40 lbs.

I personally couldn't care less if it's legal or not, as long as our little ones are safe. *But I sure need to persuade DH to spend over $500* (if we buy for both kids) for something he considers to be illegal. Any thoughts?

Just wanted to add that if cost is an issue (for us it was), definatly checkout the graco Nautalis, as mentioned by lots of others. We have one for our very tall almost 4 year old and it is great, I am so glad we got that one! Easy to install, fits great in the car, easy for him to get in and out, easy to take apart to clean. Anyway, thats my two cents


----------

