# school promotes homophobia bans gay pride symbols



## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

http://www.aclu.org/LesbianGayRights...06&MX=1706&H=1

got this in a email from the ACLU (yep card carrying member here)

"This school allows its students to freely express their views on gay and lesbian rights - *but only if they're on the anti-gay side of the issue,"* said Jolie Justus, a member of the legal panel for the ACLU of Kansas and Western Missouri, noting that bumperstickers in favor of Missouri's recently-passed anti-gay marriage constitutional amendment are ubiquitous in the school's hallways and parking lot.

Mathewson was sent to the principal's office by his homeroom teacher on October 20 after she spotted his t-shirt. The shirt bears the name of the Gay-Straight Alliance at his old high school in Fayetteville, Arkansas (FHS Gay-Straight Alliance), a pink triangle, and the words, "Make a Difference!" When an assistant principal saw it, he told Mathewson to go home and change shirts because someone might be offended by it.


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## guerrillamama (Oct 27, 2003)




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## ladyluna (May 13, 2004)

Ard, that sucks so bad. Why was I planning on homeschooling?







Sheesh.


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## librarymom (May 25, 2004)

yes, someone might be offended...but not by the *anti-gay* sentiment?

Teachers can't even recognize a double standard? Are you kidding me???????






















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## mamadawg (Jun 23, 2004)

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ARRRRRGGGGGHHHH!!!! This makes me so angry!! How does the school administration think the queer kids in school feel about this?? Because, there are at least a FEW there! Don't the school officials know that by doing this, they're giving those kids the message that THEY are offensive?? Ugh. Those poor kids.

My cousin is a public school teacher & she started a GLBT alliance at her school and was summarily fired. She was on probation, though, so there was no recourse.

Yet another reason for me to figure out how to homeschool my girls.


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## guerrillamama (Oct 27, 2003)

Quote:

...gay youth are 2 to 3 times more likely to attempt suicide than other young people. They may comprise up to 30 percent of (the estimated 5,000) completed youth suicides annually....nearly all gay and lesbian suicides occur between the ages of 16 and 21.
http://www.healthyplace.com/communit...cide_study.htm


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## mamadawg (Jun 23, 2004)

T, guerillamama. You're 5 away from senior member!


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## RachelGS (Sep 29, 2002)

Are you freaking kidding me?!! WHERE are the newspapers?


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## guerrillamama (Oct 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamadawg*







T, guerillamama. You're 5 away from senior member!

i KNOW! how did that happen? so what's my senior title?

Rachell, sorry to say this is not news. Study after study has revealed this for decades, and as far as I can tell hardly anybody cares.







To quote Le Tigre, "I guess it'd be different if they thought we were human."


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:

"But every day I see students at my school with anti-gay stickers on their notebooks and sometimes on their shirts, and I find that offensive. I understand that they have a right to express what they think, but I have a right to do the same thing."










What a mature young man, I don't think I could take it.








T

guerrillamama--- I want you to stop posting. I usually encourage people to finish up quickly their first 1000, but since you said you are going on sabatical once you hit 1000: STOP POSTING. Stay here with us







Maybe you could just keep editing the same post over and over and over so your # goes no higher.


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## guerrillamama (Oct 27, 2003)

thanks







but sorry







:


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## mamadawg (Jun 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TiredX2*









What a mature young man, I don't think I could take it.








T

guerrillamama--- I want you to stop posting. I usually encourage people to finish up quickly their first 1000, but since you said you are going on sabatical once you hit 1000: STOP POSTING. Stay here with us







Maybe you could just keep editing the same post over and over and over so your # goes no higher.

please listen to TiredX2. Consider this as part of your work & education.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

: I see you didn't take my advice

Quote:

guerrillamama
Senior Member

Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: rockin steady in the NYC
Posts: 1,002








CONGRATS









Now get that senior title up


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## sadie_sabot (Dec 17, 2002)

jerks.

i gotta say tho...something to consider...

i plan on homeschooling my kid and this is an example of why...but what about all the kids who's parents can't homeschool them?

is there anyway to keep our kids out of this mess while still advocating and fighting for the kids with no option to get out of it?


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## JessicaS (Nov 18, 2001)

I believe this goes in "activism" and not politics. I am going to go ahead and move it there.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

The solution is mass protest. Get a bunch of other students to wear sandwich boards that say "I AM A HOMOSEXUAL" or something like that. The school can't suspend them if there are just way too many of them!

Whatever happened to refusing to leave just because someone told you you were suspended? I'm sure a lot of these kids have the support of their parents, so the parents aren't necessarily going to come yank them out of school.


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## PikkuMyy (Mar 26, 2004)

I'm so glad the ACLU is taking this case up. I will look forward to seeing the outcome.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

I agree with you all, the double standard is so blantant you have to wonder about those in charge..

and Kudos to the ACLU!


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## Meiri (Aug 31, 2002)

I hope we learn how this turns out and what happens along the way.

I'm glad the ACLU is taking this case too. The refrain "Goose, Gander, Sauce" keeps running through my mind.


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## BigJimSlade (Oct 8, 2004)

I really wish I knew why certain fundametalists and those people considered homophobes feel it is necessary to cause so much pointless emotional and physical (denying medical benefits to a partner for example) pain to someone just because they are different. Too bad there aren't as many gays in this country as African Americans. African Americans did a beautiful job of rallying for their rights and won huge ground over the past few decades! Guess the minority in this country really does get the short end of the stick. Thank goodness I am a white straight middle-class male. (a little sarcasm on the thank goodness part)

Big Jim


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## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

we have a version of the ACLU, but not only is it controlled and funded by the government, the BC version of it was shut down by the current administration.

Sucks to be Canadian sometimes, eh?


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## bayviewbill33 (Sep 15, 2004)

Here's a concept: how about the kids go to school to learn and not wear anything pro gay or anti gay. Ahh the wonderful ACLU. This is an organization that defends NAMBLA.

FYI: There is no such condition as homophobia. That is a made up word.


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## sadie_sabot (Dec 17, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bayviewbill33*
FYI: There is no such condition as homophobia. That is a made up word.

Care to clarify? b/c this doesn't make much sense to me. Please explain.


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## bayviewbill33 (Sep 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sadie_sabot*
Care to clarify? b/c this doesn't make much sense to me. Please explain.

Critics have observed that homophobia is problematic for at least two reasons.

First, empirical research does not indicate that heterosexuals' antigay attitudes can reasonably be considered a phobia in the clinical sense. Indeed, the limited data available suggest that many heterosexuals who express hostility toward gay men and lesbians do not manifest the physiological reactions to homosexuality that are associated with other phobias (see Shields & Harriman, 1984).

Second, using homophobia implies that antigay prejudice is an individual, clinical entity rather than a social phenomenon rooted in cultural ideologies and intergroup relations. Moreover, a phobia is usually experienced as dysfunctional and unpleasant. Antigay prejudice, however, is often highly functional for the heterosexuals who manifest it.

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbo...prej_defn.html

I should have been more specific - homophobia is not a medical condition and that is what I meant by it being a made up word.


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## DaryLLL (Aug 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dictionaries*
1. Fear of or contempt for lesbians and gay men.
2. Behavior based on such a feeling.

irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals

prejudice against (fear or dislike of) homosexual people and homosexuality

BVB, I don't think anyone cares if it is a medical term or not.


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## BeansEemie (Jul 23, 2004)

I am so grateful to the ACLU and to mamas like you all who don't let this kind of thing happen quietly. Our kids need to know they are supported so statistics like the one guerrillamama mentioned can change. I too want to homeschool, but I also want to change things. Tough call. I just don't want my kid to go through what I went through....but that is a different topic.

And homophobia may not be medical, but it is a social disease.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:

Here's a concept: how about the kids go to school to learn and not wear anything pro gay or anti gay.
I guess, just to be fair, students (and staff) should also not wear anything pro-or-anti any religion, race, music group, political candidate, soda pop, tv show, animal, gender, sports team...after all, why wear something that someone else might DISAGREE WITH?














: They should all focus on their "learning!"

Start with the first amendment...or did that somehow not make it onto any standardized test?


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## sadie_sabot (Dec 17, 2002)

can I say that Brad Matthewson is my hero? and his mom, too. I can just imagine how hard it is to stand up for yourself in such a hostile and bigoted environment. I really hope that my daughter is as brave and as willing to put herself out there if she ever needs to. One thing I really like about all of this is that I'm not even sure, from the article, if Brad is even himself gay. that's one of the things that is so great about Gay/Straight Alliances at high schools, both queer folks and their allies participate.

BVB, racism is also highly functional for racists. I think that trying to dismiss the term homphobia because it's not totally medically acurate is just a subtle attempt at trying to support and or normalize homphobia (and I'm not singling you out, I've heard something like this before). The definition that DaryLLL posted is the commonly understoof one, and I'm sure that you also understand it.


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## Meiri (Aug 31, 2002)

Homophobia doesn't have to be a medical condition to be real. Racism isn't a medical condition either, yet it exists. Misogyny isn't a medical condition, yet it exists. My house isn't a medical condition, yet it exists.









ALL words are made up. They don't occur in Nature, they're a human construct to communicate human concepts.


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## bayviewbill33 (Sep 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Meiri*
Homophobia doesn't have to be a medical condition to be real. Racism isn't a medical condition either, yet it exists. Misogyny isn't a medical condition, yet it exists. My house isn't a medical condition, yet it exists.









ALL words are made up. They don't occur in Nature, they're a human construct to communicate human concepts.

A phobia is a medical condition. Therefore, homophobia is not real because there is no such medical condition that exists. Racism is ignorance. Ignorance is not a medical condition. My point is, homophobia is not a medical condition. Homophobia is a fad word to lable people sometimes fairly (poor choice of an adjective - lable someone a nonexistent medical condition) but most of the time unfairly. I am against gay marriage and I know for sure I will be called a bigot and a homophobe. I am not a bigot - I like most people I meet. I can not be a homophobe because the medical condition does not exist. As for homosexuals, they are people too. I may disagree with there choice of lifestyle but disagreeing is not hate like so many try to make it out to be.


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## bayviewbill33 (Sep 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Greaseball*
I guess, just to be fair, students (and staff) should also not wear anything pro-or-anti any religion, race, music group, political candidate, soda pop, tv show, animal, gender, sports team...after all, why wear something that someone else might DISAGREE WITH?














: They should all focus on their "learning!"

Start with the first amendment...or did that somehow not make it onto any standardized test?

You can blow this out of proportion if you like. The point is, kids should be going to school to learn. I am all for school uniforms - Studies have shown improved grades in schools that require uniforms. Trust me I was against uniforms until I did the research for a speach class. I was floored. Kids can be individuals after school and on the weekends. That said, being that most public schools do not have a uniform policy, then they should wear whatever they want - pro or anti gay. Everyone knows but won't admit this: if a kid wears a shirt with a pro gay slogan it will be ok. If another kid wears an anti gay slogan on his shirt, he more than likely will have to face some kind of consequences. So much for a fair and opposing view. The point of view that will be ONLY tolerated is the one that agrees with the pro gay otherwise you are labeled a bigot. What BS. Some people are in opposition to the gay life style not because of religion, but because it is not natural (can not produce babies in a gay relationship). Other people are against because of religion. Others are against it because they hate everything.

As for the first amendment, people are hypocrites when they use this defense. Only if I agree with you (not you Greaseball, you is meant hypothetically) does this apply. If I am in oppostion of your view, then charachter assasinations are brought forth. Double standard.


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## DaryLLL (Aug 12, 2002)

Being gay is not a lifestyle. It is a gender preference. It is natural. GBBT people themselves say they were born this way. Homosexuality occurs in the rest of the animal kingdom as well as in the human population.

As far as "what everyone knows," as you claim, that only pro-gay T-shirts would be allowed in a school (as if you know all schools' policies), well, this kind of goes against the info offered in the OP, does it not?

Quote:

"This school allows its students to freely express their views on gay and lesbian rights - but only if they're on the anti-gay side of the issue," said Jolie Justus, a member of the legal panel for the ACLU of Kansas and Western Missouri, noting that bumperstickers in favor of Missouri's recently-passed anti-gay marriage constitutional amendment are ubiquitous in the school's hallways and parking lot.

Mathewson was sent to the principal's office by his homeroom teacher on October 20 after she spotted his t-shirt. The shirt bears the name of the Gay-Straight Alliance at his old high school in Fayetteville, Arkansas (FHS Gay-Straight Alliance), a pink triangle, and the words, "Make a Difference!" When an assistant principal saw it, he told Mathewson to go home and change shirts because someone might be offended by it.
For the second time, we are not talking about a medical term, but a social problem. "Phobia" in this case may mean fear. Or it may mean hatred, dislike, aversion to or prejudice against homosexuals. Your objection to the term is insulting and a red herring.


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## annakiss (Apr 4, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bayviewbill33*
As for the first amendment, people are hypocrites when they use this defense. Only if I agree with you (not you Greaseball, you is meant hypothetically) does this apply. If I am in oppostion of your view, then charachter assasinations are brought forth. Double standard.

This is not true. No one here is trying to get the KKK banned. We're talking about the setting of a school however and the difference between acceptance and intolerance. Clothing that singles out a group of people and negatively characterizes them is intolerant. Schools are closed insititutions with lots of students who may fit into those groups and intolerance cannot be allowed, especially when many schools are trying to teach students to have a broad worldview and thus be accepting of all groups of people. Having this sort of worldview goes hand in hand with critical thinking and problem solving. It's part of growing tomorrows world leaders.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Would you feel better if you were called a "****-hater" instead? Or does everything have to be "medically accurate" nowadays?








T
Religion seems to be the ONLY reason for ****-hating. You can say "It's not natural" all you want, but the same people who make that argument see no problem with heterosexuals who can't/don't/won't have children.


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## StephinAL (Sep 10, 2004)

Has the ACLU ever taken the side of other groups that have been censored like Christians? If the tables had been turned and this was a school where it was permitted to promote homosexuality, and someone wore a shirt that was against it, would the ACLU be on their side? I doubt it, because it isn't politically correct to criticize the homosexual lifestyle.
This is probably an issue that is new to alot of areas and they haven't established guidelines. I think they need to decide what is permissable in a school environment. Lots of things are not permitted because they can be distractions. They need to decide to either let both views be displayed, or none at all. I personally don't think homosexuality is a civil right, but a sexual preference. I don't think sexual preferences belong on display in a public school system either for or against.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

ACLU has in the past helped the KKK get rights to protest. That is not politically correct. And aren't they a Christian organization?


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## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)

Hmm...

If an anti-racism shirt was worn to school, would you be okay with that?

If a pro-racism shirt was worn to school, would you be okay with that?

Or, should we ban both anti- and pro-racism shirts?

Personally, I'm homeschooling my child(ren), in part because I don't want them to be negatively influenced by racist, sexist, ****-haters (is that the new term?). My child(ren) will have the option of going to a public high school, if I believe they're mature enough to sift through all the b.s.

Now, I believe that all school students _should_ have freedom of speech. So, I think they should be permitted to wear anti- or pro- whatever they want, regardless of my feelings on the matter. I believe that those kinds of statements can spur discussion (sometimes intelligent), and that eyes can be opened that way. Plus, I know that _I_ would like a clear view of my enemies. But, I realize that I may be in the minority as far as protecting "hate speech" in schools is concerned. If the feelings are there, I think it's better to have them out in the open, than buried underground. At least then we can all see how ugly they are, and keep an eye on how they're expressed.
I think it's especially important to allow everyone to have their voice in .... less tolerant... areas of the U.S. Like in the OP. Or you end up with only the hate-mongers being permitted to express themselves, and no one being allowed to challenge them.


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## StephinAL (Sep 10, 2004)

I don't think the KKK is a Christian organization anymore than Adolph Hitler was a man of God. That is a whole 'nother issue .
I don't think racism and homosexuality are at all related. Many black Americans find that comparison offensive. Saying you disagree with a lifestyle doesn't mean you hate anyone. I can and do love people involved in homosexuality, but I don't agree with what they do.

The issue here is whether or not it is appropriate for children to be promoting sexual preference. I don't think so. Children should not be participating in sex and the only thing that should be promoted is abstinance, hetero or homosexual.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

You can be a homosexual - or a heterosexual - without engaging in sex. If I wear a rainbow flag, I'm not saying I engage in **** sex; I'm saying I don't agree with prejudice against gays. (My dh does have this and other assorted gay stickers on his car.)

Should students be able to wear religious symbols? Religious symbols can offend people and have nothing to do with learning. I remember in high school, I fought the school board for my 1st amendment right to look up a certain religion on the internet, after a teacher told me it was not allowed, and I won.








T
Maybe the KKK isn't a Christian organization, but it's an organization made up of people who call themselves Christians.


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## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StephinAL*
The issue here is whether or not it is appropriate for children to be promoting sexual preference. I don't think so. Children should not be participating in sex and the only thing that should be promoted is abstinance, hetero or homosexual.

Uh, excuse me but:

1. I knew my sexual "preference" long before I ever had sex. I am bisexual. I have always been bisexual. Did you only identify as heterosexual after you lost your virginity? Were you asexual before that?
Homosexuality, heterosexuality, bisexuality, etc. are not simply about sexual intercourse. Sexuality does not fit into such a small definition.

2. Your ideals of abstinence are YOURS. Not mine. Not everyone elses. Some people share your views, some don't. I consider abstinence to usually be based on religious precepts. Your religion does not belong in my life. It does not shape my values. It should not shape the rules of a public school.


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## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StephinAL*
I don't think the KKK is a Christian organization anymore than Adolph Hitler was a man of God. That is a whole 'nother issue .

You can argue that any Christian who you disagree with isn't really Christian. That doesn't change my opinion at all. I doubt your arguments would convince the KKK that they're not a Christian organization either.

Quote:

I don't think racism and homosexuality are at all related. Many black Americans find that comparison offensive.
And many find it right on.
Let's see...

You are born with your race.
You are born with your sexual orientation.

Try as you might, you can't change your race.
Try as you might, you can't change your sexual orientation.

Some people are prejudiced against people because of their race.
Some people are prejudiced against people because of their sexual orientation.

Quote:

Saying you disagree with a lifestyle doesn't mean you hate anyone. I can and do love people involved in homosexuality, but I don't agree with what they do.
To me, that's like saying that you love people who are black. You just don't like their blackness.
I don't understand how you can separate a person from themselves.
Sexuality isn't an act. It isn't something you just do, like getting a haircut or wearing certain clothes. It's part of who a person is! People who try to separate a person from their sexuality are just lying to themselves, and practicing prejudice.


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## Homegirl (Nov 18, 2004)

Is it O.K. to change your name on this board? I decided not to use my real name on boards anymore. So was StephinAL...now I am Homegirl.

Knowing your sexual preference is different than promoting or opposing someone else's. I don't think it is appropriate for schools to permit either.
Just because someone doesn't agree with someone's choices doesn't make that person prejudice. If a Muslim doesn't agree with the way a Jew worships, does that make him prejudice or full of hate? I think not. Those of us who disagree with the choices of homosexuals have a hard time with words like homophobic, prejudice, and hate speech. We can agree to disagree in this world in the absence of all of the above.
I disagree that religion is the basis for abstinence education. It is psychologically and physically better for the health of children to abstain. They are not mentally, emotionally, or physically mature enough to deal with the consequences of that adult behavior. I feel it is an issue best left to parents, but I understand there are parents who don't teach their children. Just another reason I homeschool.


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## Homegirl (Nov 18, 2004)

I am not trying to convince the KKK or anyone else that they are not a Christian organization. Anyone who knows the Bible knows the message they proclaim is not the same. It saddens me that people have been murdered, abused, and mistreated by someone who calls themselves Christians. That is not what my Bible teaches.

You see that is where we disagree. I don't see race and sexual choices as the same. That is why I can love someone in spite of that choice. If a friend of mine makes the choice to have an affair, then she made that choice. She may say she was in love and she couldn't help who she loves, but she made that choice. I will still love her even if I don't agree with her choice.
I can see why people feel that way. I believe that we are all born with a nature that is very much who we are. I just also believe that we we can make a choice whether or not we want to keep it or surrender it. You can't change the color of your skin, but you can decide who's hand you hold.
It's O.K. if other's don't agree with me. That doesn't offend me. I am not trying to offend anyone, this is just what I believe.


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## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)

I don't have the time or energy to respond to most of what you've written. I just want an answer to one question:

If a homosexual led a celibate life, but still had sexual thoughts, would that be okay with you? Would you still have a problem with that person?
Because, while we can choose who we hold hands with, we can't change our sexual orientations. So, a celibate homosexual is STILL a homosexual. Perhaps, now a miserable, suicidal homosexual who has been pressured by religious fanatics to deny him/herself love and companionship, but a homosexual nonetheless. Would you have a problem with that person's homosexuality?

Wait. Here's an even better question:

What business is it of yours what any of us does in our bedrooms?
Why do you care who I hold hands with?
Why do you care who I fall in love with?
Why do you care if I have sex with someone? Or do you only care if it's someone of the same gender?

You know there are videos that you can buy to deal with that obsession, right?


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## annakiss (Apr 4, 2003)

Here at Mothering, it is not our purpose or desire to host debates about homosexuality. Mothering supports parents and their needs in caring for their children and families and that is our focus. This thread is dangerously off-track from the OP and I am closing it for the time being for consideration.


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