# CDC Conference report



## Dave2GA (Jul 31, 2005)

I attended the CDC HIV Prevention Conference this week in Atlanta, where I live. The assembled CDC worthies were promoting circumcision on the basis of the African Randomized Controlled Trials ("RCTs"), the conclusions of which were characterized by one presenter as being "beyond a reasonable doubt." Katrina Kretsinger, MD, of the CDC was asked if the RCTs would be repeated in the U.S. She replied that they would not be because it would be unethical to do so! Then how were they ethical to start with? When I attended the session where Deborah Gust of the CDC presented a paper demonstrating that circumcision made no difference in the acquisition of HIV by insertive gay males, I asked why these results did not bring into question the conclusions of the RCTs since the anus supposedly contains more HIV than the vagina. The reply, as I understood it, was that since the insertive males also were sometimes receptive males you could not say how they got HIV. Of course, if that is the case, then the study was worthless. But since it was presented as being worthy (otherwise why present it?), I am of the opinion that it does bring into question the validity of the RCTs, as do the known facts that the U.S. has the highest rate of HIV in the industrialized world (a fact one speaker brought up), the highest STD rate in that same world, and the highest rate of male circumcision in that same world. So much for the great American circumcision experiment!

At one of the last sessions the speaker from "Operation Abraham", a Jerusalem, Israel group that apparently hopes to be engaged to assist the U.S. in circumcising the black and Hispanic males who are not circumcised, put a photo of an intact male up on the screen. The figure of an elephant had been drawn around the penis so that the intact penis looked like an elephant's trunk. The words "Please circumcise me" or something similar had been added to the photo. I remonstrated loudly until this smear was taken down and then promptly left the session. I, as an intact male, am still awaiting a deserved, written, direct apology from Dr. Peter Kilmarx, Chief of the Epidemiology Branch of the Division of HIV/AIDS Prevention of the CDC, who was in attendance and from whom I demanded an apology. I think this shows the mindset of the CDC. They seem to have abandoned all scientific objectivity to promote a useless and mutilating surgery. I expect the men are all circumcised and the women are all married to circumcised men or have circumcised relatives. So the trauma repeats itself and those who have been traumatized fulfill their need to traumatize others. And apparently they think it is socially and ethically acceptable to denigrate a normal body part and to attempt to humiliate all intact boys and men into submitting to circumcision.

Those who are as outraged as I am can write appropriate letters to the CDC. Your taxes support this lunacy. Since the CDC is consulting with the AAP (indeed Operation Abraham's abstract for its presentation mentioned "lobbying" the AAP), a letter to the Circumcision Task Force may be in order. You can get the CDC's and AAP's addresses at their websites. See also www.circumcisionandhiv.com. I hope I am not out of order is suggesting this course of action here in CAC.


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## lawmama1984 (Mar 17, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dave2GA* 
....put a photo of an intact male up on the screen. The figure of an elephant had been drawn around the penis so that the intact penis looked like an elephant's trunk. The words "Please circumcise me" or something similar had been added to the photo.






























:









That is so disgusting....I hope you get a direct and formal apology, Dave. I would have been just as outraged as you were. Thank you for being a public voice out there, letting them know that this was not something to joke about or take lightly.

I am so disgusted right now.


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## Minarai (Jul 26, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dave2GA* 
At one of the last sessions the speaker from "Operation Abraham", a Jerusalem, Israel group that apparently hopes to be engaged to assist the U.S. in circumcising the black and Hispanic males who are not circumcised, put a photo of an intact male up on the screen. The figure of an elephant had been drawn around the penis so that the intact penis looked like an elephant's trunk. The words "Please circumcise me" or something similar had been added to the photo. I remonstrated loudly until this smear was taken down and then promptly left the session. I, as an intact male, am still awaiting a deserved, written, direct apology from Dr. Peter Kilmarx, Chief of the Epidemiology Branch of the Division of HIV/AIDS Prevention of the CDC, who was in attendance and from whom I demanded an apology. I think this shows the mindset of the CDC. They seem to have abandoned all scientific objectivity to promote a useless and mutilating surgery. I expect the men are all circumcised and the women are all married to circumcised men or have circumcised relatives. So the trauma repeats itself and those who have been traumatized fulfill their need to traumatize others. And apparently they think it is socially and ethically acceptable to denigrate a normal body part and to attempt to humiliate all intact boys and men into submitting to circumcision.

They undoubtedly got the idea for that from the manga/anime _Crayon Shin-chan_ (I'm not going to go into details for copyright reasons). It amused me at first, but then it disgusted me.

Quote:

Those who are as outraged as I am can write appropriate letters to the CDC. Your taxes support this lunacy. Since the CDC is consulting with the AAP (indeed Operation Abraham's abstract for its presentation mentioned "lobbying" the AAP), a letter to the Circumcision Task Force may be in order. You can get the CDC's and AAP's addresses at their websites. See also www.circumcisionandhiv.com. I hope I am not out of order is suggesting this course of action here in CAC.
I doubt letter writing will work. It's my understanding that the United States medical machine has become so powerful that it's immune to any and all criticism and/or reform efforts from anyone below the government level. (Correct me if I'm wrong; I don't want to be accused of being a conspiracy theorist.)


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## Papai (Apr 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dave2GA* 
I attended the CDC HIV Prevention Conference this week in Atlanta, where I live. The assembled CDC worthies were promoting circumcision on the basis of the African Randomized Controlled Trials ("RCTs"), the conclusions of which were characterized by one presenter as being "beyond a reasonable doubt." Katrina Kretsinger, MD, of the CDC was asked if the RCTs would be repeated in the U.S. She replied that they would not be because it would be unethical to do so! Then how were they ethical to start with? When I attended the session where Deborah Gust of the CDC presented a paper demonstrating that circumcision made no difference in the acquisition of HIV by insertive gay males, I asked why these results did not bring into question the conclusions of the RCTs since the anus supposedly contains more HIV than the vagina. The reply, as I understood it, was that since the insertive males also were sometimes receptive males you could not say how they got HIV. Of course, if that is the case, then the study was worthless. But since it was presented as being worthy (otherwise why present it?), I am of the opinion that it does bring into question the validity of the RCTs, as do the known facts that the U.S. has the highest rate of HIV in the industrialized world (a fact one speaker brought up), the highest STD rate in that same world, and the highest rate of male circumcision in that same world. So much for the great American circumcision experiment!

At one of the last sessions the speaker from "Operation Abraham", a Jerusalem, Israel group that apparently hopes to be engaged to assist the U.S. in circumcising the black and Hispanic males who are not circumcised, put a photo of an intact male up on the screen. The figure of an elephant had been drawn around the penis so that the intact penis looked like an elephant's trunk. The words "Please circumcise me" or something similar had been added to the photo. I remonstrated loudly until this smear was taken down and then promptly left the session.

You should write a blog about this and get it featured on the Huffington Post or send it to a newspaper. This behavior should be exposed in the mass media.

Absolutely despicable.


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## Papai (Apr 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Minarai* 

I doubt letter writing will work. It's my understanding that the United States medical machine has become so powerful that it's immune to any and all criticism and/or reform efforts from anyone below the government level. (Correct me if I'm wrong; I don't want to be accused of being a conspiracy theorist.)

I agree that letter writing alone won't force action, but I disagree that only government level criticism will force a response. Already, the CDC is trying to be measured against the wrath of criticism in the NY Times article, by stressing that they are CONSIDERING recommending circ.

The intact argument needs more media time, so the more people who write for blogs, newspapers and talk about it on TV the better.


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## Fellow Traveler (Jan 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Papai* 
You should write a blog about this and get it featured on the Huffington Post or send it to a newspaper. This behavior should be exposed in the mass media.

Absolutely despicable.

That is clearly inappropriate; I agree perhaps expose this on the Huffington Post or something.

Eta: and if a copy of this slide could ne obtained that would be great. Perhaps we can get some blogs to start the ball rolling.


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## Night_Nurse (Nov 23, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dave2GA* 
At one of the last sessions the speaker from "Operation Abraham", a Jerusalem, Israel group that apparently hopes to be engaged to assist the U.S. in circumcising the black and Hispanic males who are not circumcised.

What about my white, Caucasian, blond headed, blue-eyed son? Do they want to cut off his foreskin too, or just those of minorities?

This makes me so angry and I have so much to say, yet I won't, out of fear that I'll get the thread shut down.

I'm about to bow out of this fight anyway. It's too draining and those who agree with circ go to too many ludicrous lengths to justify it. It's too much.


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## ursaminor (Mar 28, 2009)

Operation Abraham? has anyone ever heard of them before? I would like to contact some minority groups about their plans.
I do not want my son to grow up in a country that is trying to attack its boys. I thought things were getting better


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## tennisdude23 (Apr 2, 2008)

Ok, once you start drawing elephants for your powerpoints, that's about the time when I really stop taking you seriously. If I was at a conference like that, I would have probably laughed and asked the presenter why he is wasting everyone's time. After all, time is money as they say. In any case, it would have been an incident that I would have taken a picture of and leaked to the media and/or spread throughout the internet. I mean where is my tax money going, seriously? I thought this nation is in a massive deficit that's further burdening the economy. If Congress is going to pass a form of universal health care, Medicaid and Medicare programs will have to be cut. I don't think that circumcision will be high on Medicaid's agenda, and I assume it will be cut in a lot of states, depending what happens during the health care debate. It's really not a hard concept to grasp that HIV and circumcision in this country have little to do with each other. Anyway, the more air time a story like this gets, the more likely it is that the CDC won't do anything in favor or against circumcision. I don't think they will want to plunge head first into some kind of culture war and all the bad publicity that it would receive. By the way, the blog rollingdoughnut.com has some great posts about this story. I suggest that everyone checks them out. In the end, I feel that while the AAP may emphasize some of the new "benefits" (which we all know are BS), I think they will be forced to say that those same benefits can be achieved through good hygiene and safe sex practices and that the risks and ethics of the procedure should be taken into account when physicians are discussing this decision with the parents. The AAP has said several times that they won't recommend this procedure and I really doubt that they will do anything that will be seriously out of line with all of the other organizations of the western world. Lastly, given all the great responses this week across the internet, I feel that the message is getting out and that the circumcision rates will continue to fall in this country and hopefully around the world as well. I think if physicians really do a better job of discussing the risks, benefits, and ethics of circumcision, then the rates of will drop, and drop much faster than now. What keeps circumcision going is the lack of national discourse, which I think is the silver lining to this story.

Thank you everyone for speaking out and a special thanks to Mr. Llewellyn, Ms. Chapin, and everyone else at Intact America for all of their great help and support.


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## SleeplessMommy (Jul 16, 2005)

Dave2GA - thank you so much for being there at the CDC meeting.


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## fruitful womb (Nov 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Night_Nurse* 
What about my white, Caucasian, blond headed, blue-eyed son? Do they want to cut off his foreskin too, or just those of minorities?

This makes me so angry and I have so much to say, yet I won't, out of fear that I'll get the thread shut down.

I'm about to bow out of this fight anyway. It's too draining and those who agree with circ go to too many ludicrous lengths to justify it. It's too much.

NN







It gets the darkest before the dawn.

It sounds to me like they're getting quite comfortable expressing their 'real' reason to mass circ everyone boy in America. It has nothing to do with AIDS.

This is prejudice behavior. And I'd ask OA if they'd go after my blond hair blue eye intact sons too.

Remember when all those delusional genital cutting American "scientists" urging the UK to increase their circumcision rates with the claim that circumcision will cure and prevent club feet? The UK got smart and saw right through that. Their circ rates declined drastically.

Thank you Dave for being there at the conference. So, you stood up in the audience and yelled at him about the derogatory image against intact males?

The fact it was up there infuriates me.


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## glongley (Jun 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Night_Nurse* 
What about my white, Caucasian, blond headed, blue-eyed son? Do they want to cut off his foreskin too, or just those of minorities?

This makes me so angry and I have so much to say, yet I won't, out of fear that I'll get the thread shut down.

I'm about to bow out of this fight anyway. It's too draining and those who agree with circ go to too many ludicrous lengths to justify it. It's too much.

Just wanted to send you some personal hugs too














.

"What about my white, Caucasian, blond headed, blue-eyed son? Do they want to cut off his foreskin too, or just those of minorities? This makes me so angry and I have so much to say, yet I won't, out of fear that I'll get the thread shut down. I'm about to bow out of this fight anyway. It's too draining and those who agree with circ go to too many ludicrous lengths to justify it. It's too much."

I had the same reaction, especially in realizing how demeaning and discriminatory and insulting and oppressive a push for universal circumcision is to intact men, and grieving that my own beautiful, whole sons should be thought of by anyone in that way. Good for Dave for letting out all the pent-up outrage of having received these messages about being a normal, intact male all his life. The cultural sickness is laid bare. They need to hear the truth of their prejudice.

I agree it is ludicrous, and lunatic, and just plain too much to deal with, and seemingly too big a battle to fight. I myself have not slept well the last few nights ruminating on what I want to tell the CDC (I did write a letter to the Editor of the NYT through the Intact America site), and also feeling like I would just have to quit working in the nursery if the CDC ever did come out with a recommendation for routine circumcision, because as bad as it is to be around circumcision now, it would be so much worse to see the smugness and self-justification over a renewed crusade to put all babies under the knife.

But I have also felt, that as ugly as it is, that at least the fight is out in the open, that Intact America is finally getting some press time (and will continue to do so), and the CDC's statements have been so outrageous as to have angered and catalyzed huge numbers of people to speak out. Man, social change sucks, doesn't it? But there's no turning back now.

I am so grateful to Georganne and Marilyn and David Llewellyn and Dan Bollinger and Amber Craig and all the other people who have sweated bullets and taken the punches and stretched themselves beyond their limits to fight this fight in the biggest arenas there are. I am so grateful to everyone at MDC who does whatever they can, and goes through all the sweat and emotional turmoil that this fight demands.

Anybody who's pregnant - just go take care of your little one and yourself and don't worry about what's going on now. Anyone who is really hurting or overwhelmed from this - take care of yourself and find things that nurture and support you and feel sane and life-affirming to you - take a break if you have to. We're only human.

But read on below, though, to realize that we have already made a difference, that our posts and letters and breath and prayers do make a difference, that "the truth will out" one day, and we will all have been a part of ending this nightmare for boys everywhere. We just need to keep the heat on the CDC and the AAP.

Intact America's presence at the CDC conference, and the recent media flurry have made quite an impression. Check out the new statement the CDC just issued about the circumcision policy, dated today, August 27, 2009:

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/resear...rcumcision.htm

Status of CDC Male Circumcision Recommendations

Some recent reports have speculated about the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's (CDC's) upcoming public health recommendations on male circumcision for HIV prevention in the United States.

It is important to note that the recommendations are still in development and CDC has made no determination at this time about the final content. CDC is employing a deliberative, evidence-based process for developing the circumcision recommendations, which allows for both external and internal CDC experts to provide input. CDC will also publish draft recommendations for public comment before the content will be finalized.

With respect to infant circumcision, it is important to recognize that many options are still being considered in this process, including simply recommending that health-care providers educate parents about the potential benefits and risks to ensure that parents have the information they need to make an informed decision.

In developing its recommendations, CDC is also considering whether circumcision should be recommended for heterosexual adults at high risk for HIV infection in the United States, as well as whether there is sufficient scientific evidence to make any recommendations for men who have sex with men.

Whatever the content may include, CDC's final circumcision recommendations will be completely voluntary. While CDC has not yet determined if male circumcision should be recommended for any population, ultimately the decision will rest with individuals and parents. CDC's public health imperative is to provide the best possible information on the risks and benefits to help inform those decisions.

For further information, please link to CDC Fact Sheet on male circumcision.

Last Modified: August 27, 2009
Last Reviewed: August 27, 2009
Content Source:
Divisions of HIV/AIDS Prevention
National Center for HIV/AIDS, Viral Hepatitis, STD, and TB Prevention

Gillian


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## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

That is un-freaking-believable about the elephant trunk.









Can you imagine the public outrage if someone took a picture of the female vulva and drew, I don't know, a hairy monkey butt around it or something and had a similar cartoon bubble? They'd be tarred and feathered and rode out of town on a rail in about three seconds.

I am so outraged, Dave, I can't even imagine how angry you must be to have witnessed that level of BS. Talk about beyond the pale.


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## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

Do we have any names and addresses that we know are good and valid at the CDC -- i.e. a letter might actually have a shot at getting read by someone and not just gaffed off?


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## Papai (Apr 9, 2007)

Gillian,

Thank you for sharing that. You're right, the intact side is being heard from more and more, and the CDC has clearly reacted to the charges of mass, routine circumcision. Glad they're re-affirming the point that the decision always rests with individuals.

But this part:

Quote:

CDC will also publish draft recommendations for public comment before the content will be finalized.
When it comes time for public comment, it's important to voice our opinions loud and clear.


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## susienjay (Oct 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Night_Nurse* 
What about my white, Caucasian, blond headed, blue-eyed son? Do they want to cut off his foreskin too, or just those of minorities?

It seems like they'd like to think that the only intact males in the country are minorities, immigrants, and those that can't afford to pay for it.







:

This all makes me so angry. They will sit around and discuss the merits of slicing off part of every single newborn boys penis for a slight reduction in HIV. However they refuse to barely mention any possible complications or any possible human rights violations of circing. I guess once it is done everything is wonderful and there are never any problems.







Why aren't they up in arms about the whole MRSA thing? That could potentially be a way worse problem from the CDCs standpoint.

I just found out this week my cousin's little 3 year old has what sounds like meatal stenosis. I'm getting the info 3rd hand from my mom but he had surgery to "help him pee" and now they have to make sure he goes every 2 hours so the hole doesn't start to close up again. Sigh. Yet another complication no one seems to want to acknowledge.


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## fruitful womb (Nov 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *susienjay* 
It seems like they'd like to think that the only intact males in the country are minorities, immigrants, and those that can't afford to pay for it.







:

This all makes me so angry. They will sit around and discuss the merits of slicing off part of every single newborn boys penis for a slight reduction in HIV. However they refuse to barely mention any possible complications or any possible human rights violations of circing. I guess once it is done everything is wonderful and there are never any problems.







Why aren't they up in arms about the whole MRSA thing? That could potentially be a way worse problem from the CDCs standpoint.

I just found out this week my cousin's little 3 year old has what sounds like meatal stenosis. I'm getting the info 3rd hand from my mom but he had surgery to "help him pee" and now they have to make sure he goes every 2 hours so the hole doesn't start to close up again. Sigh. Yet another complication no one seems to want to acknowledge.

Meatal stenosis is more common than a UTI. Yet, its not disclosed in a consent form. 9% of circumcised boys will get this and ONLY circ'd boys.


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## SleeplessMommy (Jul 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fruitful womb* 

Thank you Dave for being there at the conference. So, you stood up in the audience and yelled at him about the derogatory image against intact males?

Sometimes it is really great to have a lawyer on your team


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## TCA2008 (Nov 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Quirky* 
Do we have any names and addresses that we know are good and valid at the CDC -- i.e. a letter might actually have a shot at getting read by someone and not just gaffed off?

Yes, go to www.circumcisionandhiv.com and click on AAP/CDC project.


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## phatchristy (Jul 6, 2005)

This is so appauling. Though I'm not an intact male (intact female), my father, his father, etc. and my sons, etc. so my bloodlines are intact. I find that so offensive on multiple levels. And, even as a wife of a circumcised man (done without his consent), I'm equally offended. That genitals are mocked like that at a supposed 'professional conference' what?

I mean, that goes so far BEYOND unprofessional--I'm just shocked.

I'm with Papai--this needs to be reported to the media. Most definitely, huffington posts blog and how about contacting the ACLU? At least an article about what is going on.


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

I don't even know what to say about this. It is so incredibly offensive, disturbing, disgusting , inappropriate..............

I am so freakin pissed, outraged!!


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## Yulia_R (Jan 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dave2GA* 
...a photo of an intact male up on the screen. The figure of an elephant had been drawn around the penis so that the intact penis looked like an elephant's trunk. The words "Please circumcise me" or something similar had been added to the photo.
















'm speachless...


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## Yulia_R (Jan 7, 2006)

SO many bad things in the history of humanity were legal and accepted as a norm BEFORE they became illegal. Racism, slavery, female genital mutilation, to name few. And those people who were fighting against the mass craze were most likely overwhelmed too at some points. We WILL get there!


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

Moving to Activism. Please remember that Activism is a debate-free zone. Thanks!


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## jessjgh1 (Nov 4, 2004)

I think if this represents a tactic of 'operation abraham' then more people need to know that this is the kind of logic operation abraham represents.
Jessica


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## Pumpkinheadmommy (Nov 6, 2007)

Just wanted to say thank you so much for being there!

We definitely need to get the word out about this ridiculous and offensive joke.


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## jessjgh1 (Nov 4, 2004)

I googled operation abraham.... no sponsors listed yet... I do think that many people would be appalled at the tactic used, wonder if contacting some of the people at their founding organization would help.

http://www.operation-ab.org/category/About
Operation Abraham was founded in May 2007 as a collaboration between the Jerusalem AIDS Project (JAIP) and Hadassah Medical Organization (HMO)

http://www.israaid.org.il/member_page.asp?id=11
Jerusalem AIDS Project (JAIP)

http://www.hadassah.org.il/English

From operation abrahams contact page you can contact them through the web form or :
Contact Us
Operation Abraham
Phone: +972-2-6797677
Fax: +972-2-6797737
E-mail: [email protected]

Address:
Operation Abraham
4, Eliezer Hagadol Street
POB 7179, Jerusalem 91072
Israel


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## Crunchy Frog (Aug 24, 2008)

I just want to reiterate the importance of getting this out to a wider audience. This needs a blog in the Huffingtonpost, and other mainstream blogs.

Sunlight really is the best disinfectant, and this grossly unproffessional behavior needs to be exposed as widely as possible.

Thank you for being there, and I look forward to seeing more reports.


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## Dave2GA (Jul 31, 2005)

The general address for all letters to the CDC is:

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
1600 Clifton Rd
Atlanta, GA 30333

I suggest writing all of the following:

Thomas R. Frieden, MD, MPH
Director
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
1600 Clifton Rd
Atlanta, GA 30333

Kevin Fenton, M.D., Ph.D., FFHP
Director
The National Center for HIV/AIDS, Viral Hepatitis,
STD, and TB Prevention (NCHHSTP)
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
1600 Clifton Rd
Atlanta, GA 30333

Fenton, who is English, has an e-mail: [email protected]

Peter H. Kilmarx, M.D.
Chief, Epidemiology Branch
Division of HIV/AIDS Prevention
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
1600 Clifton Rd
Atlanta, GA 30333

Jonathan Mermin, M.D.
Director
Division of HIV/AIDS Prevention
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
1600 Clifton Rd
Atlanta, GA 30333

Katrina Kretsinger, M.D.
Epidemiology Branch
Division of HIV/AIDS Prevention
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
1600 Clifton Rd
Atlanta, GA 30333

Jason B. Reed, M.D., M.P.H.
Epidemiology Branch
Division of HIV/AIDS Prevention
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
1600 Clifton Rd
Atlanta, GA 30333

Please write all of them. Tell them how outraged you are that Operation Abraham was allowed to denigrate intact males. [You may cut and paste as much of my post in that regard as you care to do]. Tell them your chiild is intact (if that is the case). Tell them that recommending circumcision of infants to "prevent" HIV is absurd and unethical.

This is very, very important. The link posted by Gillian shows they are scared and on the run. Your letter can and will make a difference!!


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## nummies (Jun 9, 2007)

I've never written a letter like this before, but I really want to. Can anyone give some pointers on things to include in these letters? Any advice would be most welcome. Thanks!


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## susienjay (Oct 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nummies* 
I've never written a letter like this before, but I really want to. Can anyone give some pointers on things to include in these letters? Any advice would be most welcome. Thanks!

http://www.circumcisionandhiv.com/the-aap-project.html

I've never sent a letter like this before either but I'm working on mine and I'm using the letter here as a starting point.


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## robertandenith (Apr 1, 2008)

WOW! that was offensive!







:

thanks for all the work you are doing!


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## SleeplessMommy (Jul 16, 2005)

Also, write to your congressperson/senator and tell them to make the CDC stop _wasting money_ on the circ agenda.


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## Minarai (Jul 26, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fruitful womb* 
It sounds to me like they're getting quite comfortable expressing their 'real' reason to mass circ everyone boy in America. It has nothing to do with AIDS.

As we all know.
I've said this a bazillion times already, but I can't stress it enough:
Neonatal circumcision is primarily driven by the cosmetic and biotech industries. Infant foreskins contain stem cells called fibroblasts that are used either for making skin for grafts or (the more well-known and controversial) the active ingredients in "anti-aging" cosmetics targeted at women. As long as there's a demand for these products, there'll be an incentive for doctors to continue cutting up babies.

Quote:

This is prejudice behavior. And I'd ask OA if they'd go after my blond hair blue eye intact sons too.
I'm convinced they will. They'll take whatever they can get their hands on.


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## jessjgh1 (Nov 4, 2004)

I think also finding influential and sympathetic voices from the AIDS / African community would also be a good way to fight this.
With other issues, someone (or group of people) pens an awesome letter and gets a group of influential (and representative) people to sign on to it and then sends it off as Editorials, etc. Getting major African names on such a letter would be ideal... since this issue isn't the typical AIDS issue (I mean in the US, since in the US AIDS is primarily a gay issue).

I remember in the past there were certain African leaders that condemed circumcision as a solution to the AIDS crisis. Also, in New York City, didn't one of the major AIDS organization leaders condemn the initiative (or perhaps it was mayor???)

Those voices need to unite in a response.... can we get intact america to start such a letter... facilitate some of this to get someone who can network.

And our letters to the CDC should have some impact.... but the other way to get notice is to make as much noise as they are and have our voices represented in the media, too.

This whole issue makes me sick. I apologize for putting ideas out and not being able to lead a battle, but that's all I have right now (ideas and a little time to write my own letters).... this issue is making me sick enough to want to just hole up and give up yet just sick enough to spend far too much time on it, more than is healthy or that I really have.

Off to take another look at the sample letters.... Keep those coming for those that can.. it really helps MANY people to have some help..

Jessica


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## jessjgh1 (Nov 4, 2004)

BTW
I believe Intact American has an online form that somwhat 'creates' a letter for you (you can pick and choose pieces of information/facts to fill the letter and craft your own parts. I thought it was well done... but had a babe that wouldn't let me complete at the time.

I think it is in TAke Action.... send a letter to an editor
http://org2.democracyinaction.org/o/...letter_KEY=150

Jessica


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Terrible. I was wondering -- isn't it true that in most of Africa, female genital mutilation (infibulation, also called female circumcision) is quite common, and that this could be a more likely explanation of the higher rate of female-to-male transmission of HIV than the lack of male circumcision? And that therefore the recommendations really don't apply in places that do not practice female genital cutting?
http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/HIV/brady1/
http://allafrica.com/stories/200711160852.html


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## Dave2GA (Jul 31, 2005)

Inon Schenker has now been quoted in The Forward as accusing intactivists of being very aggressive in their response to his presentation. See http://www.forward.com/articles/113748/. Of course, there is no mention of his outrageous misconduct. You may want to write The Forward writer with your comments.


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## Super Pickle (Apr 29, 2002)

Hey, the author called us a "fervent movement!"

I sent some letters off yesterday.


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## brant31 (Jan 11, 2009)

Sorry to bump up this thread, but I wanted to add my experience to underscore Dave's point, and to show that the drive to circumcise males is a concerted effort.

In July I attended the IAS 2009 International AIDS Conference in Cape Town, South Africa. There were representatives there from WHO, UNAIDS and numerous American organizations, including the CDC. Operation Abraham was there, too. Each day there were presentations about the effectiveness and importance of implementing mass circumcision programs throughout Africa (with a hint that once these were in place and showing results, lobbying would begin for universal circumcision programs in Asia, South America, Europe and North America).

On the last day of the conference there was a big, plenary session with 5 honchos seated at a table on the stage. A colleague grabbed me from out in the exhibition hall and said I really had to get inside the auditiorium to hear the outrageous things that were being said.

As I sat there over the next 45 minutes or so, my blood really began to boil. There were several presentations about how mass circumcision programs could be implemented throughout sub-Saharan Africa and ways to ensure that absolutely every male was "caught in the net". One presenter, the director of the Orange Farm mass circumcision program, a young Afrikaaner (white) PhD named Dirk, described in chilling detail how all males would be screened for HIV and then the HIV-negative males would be circumcised. A variety of materials were being printed up -- brochures, big signs, free giveaways -- to make sure the message reached every male over 14. Methods were described in detail for putting the squeeze on anyone who had doubts or reservations... it sounded more like the "closers" at a timeshare presentation, only with this "product" there was no changing your mind later!

After all the HIV-negative adult males had been circumcised, said the presenter, the HIV-positive males would all be re-contacted, brought in and circumcised. Eventually, went the reasoning, circumcision would move down to the childhood and newborn stage and no male would make it beyond a week with a foreskin. The total indifference to this as a mass body alteration campaign left me in shock. When the seemingly-endless presentation concluded and it was time for audience questions, I immediately headed to the microphone.

As the 5 international health "experts" looked on in steely disapproval from their table onstage, I systematically tried to deconstruct the message we had just heard and challenge their data. I disputed their "absolute finding" that male circumcision would reduce seroconversion in males by 60% and be a "surgical vaccine". I said that more than 75% of the world's men are intact, are NOT walking health risks, and the foreskin is valuable. I said that I found it outrageous that they would circumcise all the HIV-positive males, since they clearly could not be helped by circumcision and every study suggested that circumcising them would not protect women in any way. It would just mutilate them needlessly. [Little did I know that in another room, the Wawer study was being revealed that showed circumcised, HIV positive men are up to 50% _more_ likely to infect their female partners than are intact, HIV-positive men.]

I had a few other choice points to make, and when I was through it was clear they'd been caught off guard. In fact, Dirk stammered through a few weak responses before a woman from WHO took over and started lambasting me back. She said that WHO has determined that over 30% [note: no other org has ever found a figure that high] of the world's males are presently circumcised and the figure is climbing rapidly, as it should. Soon it should be over 50%, she said, looking very satisfied. She also explained that circumcising the HIV-positive men in all the sub-Saharan countries would be a kindness, since once the programs were underway and cutting hundreds of thousands of males, it would become a stigma and a sign of being HIV-positive to still have a foreskin -- no woman would sleep with you. She said any reasonable man should be happy to be circumcised, thus the universal circumcision campaign would both camouflage the infected men and created a uniform community of improved, grateful males. She said that it was irresponsible speculation that the foreskin has ANY function or value, and therefore circumcision could only help, not harm. The implication was that no normal person would ever want to keep his filthy foreskin, in Africa or anywhere else.

Wow, her response was even worse than the awful presentations. I didn't sit down, but continued to stand and challenge WHO and UNAIDS "facts". I said that these programs were robbing money from solutions that did work better, including education and condom distribution programs. I also said that the whole concept was poorly thought out, because the men rushing, or being coerced, to get circumcised would contract and spread even more HIV because they were being told they were "60% immune" to HIV. The whole undertaking was unconscionable.

The woman at the table indicated they had heard quite enough from me, and were moving on to the next questioner. All in all, they took questions from only 3 of us, and I'm glad I spent so much time challenging. I could tell from the faces of the 5 "superstars" that they were unnerved by the idea that there was coherent opposition to their steamrolling. You mean reasonable, educated people can actually oppose nontherapeutic circumcision? Why, that's... unimaginable!

You can find the full name of the young PhD who is directing the Orange Farm mass circumcision program -- and I'll bet you anything he himself is intact, like most Afrikaaners -- by searching the web for "Orange Farm Dirk". In fact, afterward my colleague and I cornered him (without his WHO mentors) and demanded answers to some awkward questions. Dirk admitted that many of our points were valid and not everything had been thought out yet, but he remained committed to the idea of ridding black Africans of foreskins. He came across like a very scared robot.

I think the CDC was dumbfounded by the opposition to their "leaked" plan to advocate universal circumcision. I'm sure the CDC was very surprised by Dave's outburst and I know that they, WHO and UNAIDS were extremely irked by my vocal opposition to their blasé vilification of foreskins in presentation after presentation.

Keep in mind that, ultimately, the CDC and WHO recommendations are _*not*_ really about health. They are about a small group of decision-makers' disgust at the idea of intact penises, and their back-door approach to making circumcision more common and thus more palatable. The more they hear that there are people who don't agree with them, the less they will continue to believe -- and to go around announcing -- that foreskins are the exclusive province of the poor and the uneducated.

Please, everyone, speak out!


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## Frank Koehler (Nov 30, 2009)

How rediculous. We don't cut girls! What most people don't know, is that most of the reasons for cutting boys are also the same reasons given for cutting girls. Infant circumcision is sexism plain and simple.


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