# WWYD? Excluding a DC from playgroup?



## gbailey (Mar 10, 2009)

Five moms in my area (including me) have been getting together with our children for outings or playing at one of our homes. One of the toddlers is 2 years old. She's not talking at all and when she does talk it's just like loud groaning and grunting. She vomits a lot and whenever we go out she covers her ears and screams and cries. I think she may have a developmental issue but the mom hasn't mentioned anything. This is the issue...the other moms don't want include her in our outings anymore. Our last outing was at the zoo. She went ballistic when we went into the monkey house, bird house and the chimp house. She covered her ears and screamed and screamed. The other parents don't want to include her because they are afraid their kids will start to act like this little girl. Truthfully, she doesn't seem to enjoy the outings but there haven't been that many. I think with time she'll get comfortable with us all. The issue is- the other parents are firm in not wanting to invite her and her mom to anymore outings. I don't agree but I'm out numbered here. DD enjoys the playgroups as do I but I also don't feel comfortable leaving out a mom whose daughter may have a learning or developmental issue. Any advice?


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## pauletoy (Aug 26, 2007)

The little girl sounds like she might have some sensory issues. My ds displayed a lot of the behaviors you described when he was 2. I can't imagine a 2 year old being capable of intentionally behaving that way. It is more possible that situations are overwhelming to her and being 2 she has little to no self control.

As far as the other mothers and the play group, I would not return. If they are willing to shun a 2 year old for 2 year old behavior, then they are not the group for me.


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## possum (Nov 23, 2004)

I've seen some pretty catty things happen in our playgroup







. It's a lot more like high school than I'd like it to be sometimes.
I would let the other moms know what you think. How do you make decisions about future meet-ups? If they are going to exclude, her they need to let her know up front, and I would insist that someone do this rather than just "forget" her on future emails about outings.
If they do choose to snub them, you don't have to go along with it. You can always start your own playgroup with the little girl and her mama.
FWIW, I told a mother that I was not willing to exclude another family from our playgroup. She's not my favorite person, and were it up to me, I probably wouldn't invite her in the first place, but now that she's coming, I think it would be really nasty to exclude her. Her child plays much better with everyone than my own, and they are just playdates after all - not that big a commitment. I just don't think it's worth alienating perfectly decent people over. After I said I was not willing to go along with excluding them, there hasn't been any further discussion of it.


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## MamatoLil (Mar 9, 2010)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pauletoy* 
The little girl sounds like she might have some sensory issues. My ds displayed a lot of the behaviors you described when he was 2. I can't imagine a 2 year old being capable of intentionally behaving that way. It is more possible that situations are overwhelming to her and being 2 she has little to no self control.

As far as the other mothers and the play group, I would not return. If they are willing to shun a 2 year old for 2 year old behavior, then they are not the group for me.

Good post!

I'm sorry the other mothers have put you in this position. I think that I would tell the other mothers that I will not exclude the other mom and child from the group.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Kids don't pick that kind of thing up from other kids.

I wouldn't go back if it's turned into a Jr. High clique thing.


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## betsyj (Jan 8, 2009)

Why do parents have to put up with a particular child no matter what? I sympathize with the Mom and would invite her to less stressful outings on my own or to my home. But, I want to have fun on my outings too!! And frankly a vomiting screaming child is no fun at all.

Either the kid has issues, or is simply not ready for these kinds of outings. Why keep bringing a kid who is obviously not having fun at all?


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## newbymom05 (Aug 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *betsyj* 
Why do parents have to put up with a particular child no matter what? I sympathize with the Mom and would invite her to less stressful outings on my own or to my home. But, I want to have fun on my outings too!! And frankly a vomiting screaming child is no fun at all.

Either the kid has issues, or is simply not ready for these kinds of outings. Why keep bringing a kid who is obviously not having fun at all?

I agree with this. I don't think it's being jr. high-ish to realize that group dynamics that work as infants change as they become toddlers, preschoolers, etc. It sounds like the OP has made her feelings made to the group, but they disagree. I don't see why the OP should quit a group that works for her and her child. OP, if you feel guilty about the mom being left out, invite her over like the PP suggested.

And I"m curious--who would tell the mom why she wasn't invited and what reason would they give? I don't think it's cruel to leave her off the emails, or at least any more cruel then telling her the reason. I'd stay out of it, OP. You made your feelings known, you can act as inclusively and welcoming (or not) as you want on your own. I'd let the people who are uncomfortable with the little girl handle the drama.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *betsyj* 
Why do parents have to put up with a particular child no matter what?

No one "has" to be kind, gracious, and inclusive to struggling families. But having been one of those kinds of families ourselves at times -- I agree with the other posters who say that they would not feel right about staying in the group if this family is excluded.

OP, I'd let the other moms know that if they want to exclude this other family, I wouldn't be staying either. This gives them the opportunity to decide whether they really want to close the door on them or not.

If they do become an exclusive group, I agree with the other poster's idea to start your own group with this other mom.


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## dauphinette (Nov 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *betsyj* 
Why do parents have to put up with a particular child no matter what? I sympathize with the Mom and would invite her to less stressful outings on my own or to my home. But, I want to have fun on my outings too!! And frankly a vomiting screaming child is no fun at all.

Either the kid has issues, or is simply not ready for these kinds of outings. Why keep bringing a kid who is obviously not having fun at all?


I wouldn't say that I agree with this but I can certainly see the point being made. When I go out with a group of friends/other moms with the intent of enjoying my time I certainly don't imagine that including a screaming/puking kid every.single.time. But~and this is a big but~if I were that other mom then I would need that time out of the house and friends who treat me and my daughter well and like we are part of the group, just for my own sanity!


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

If we were talking about 10 year olds, or even 5 year olds, I'd agree. But we're talking about toddlers, and there's a wide range of normal for toddlers. Many toddlers have high needs, tantrums, and get overstimulated easily. And any of those toddlers could go though similar phases. This toddler could outgrow it. I've had the high needs toddler, who is now a wonderfully behaved 8-year-old, and parents whose kids aren't high needs see "bad kid" and just really don't get it.

Also, "playgroups" for that age are at least as much about support for the parents as about play for the kids. If this mom has a high needs toddler, she really needs the support.

Could someone nicely tell the mom that the screaming scares the other kids and maybe if her dd gets overstimulated and has trouble, could she take her outside until the trouble passes so the other kids don't end up getting overstimulated as well from the screaming? Something like that. It seems like "kids starts screaming sometimes" can be handled differently.

It seems unsustainable to have a group of 2-year-olds and then kick out ones who tantrum. You won't have more than a kid at the end of it.


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## betsyj (Jan 8, 2009)

Quote:

No one "has" to be kind, gracious, and inclusive to struggling families. But having been one of those kinds of families ourselves at times -- I agree with the other posters who say that they would not feel right about staying in the group if this family is excluded.
A toddler who is screaming and vomiting regularly is not a normal set of behaviors. Include this Mom in other outings but there is no way I think it is right that everyone else has to have a crappy time just to be inclusive.

Quote:

Also, "playgroups" for that age are at least as much about support for the parents as about play for the kids. If this mom has a high needs toddler, she really needs the support.
So only the Mom of the puking kid deserves this consideration? And what about the other Moms? They don't deserve a fun outing? This sounds well beyond a high needs kid anyways.

Why not take a break and try when the kid is a bit older and maybe better able to handle such outings?


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Tantrums and reflux? I'd call that within the realm of normal for a 20-month-old.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

If your playgroup is 2 year olds I can pretty much guarantee that if you are still meeting by the time the kids are 5, every child will have demonstrated some kind of behaviour that is ban-worthy by then at least once.

I think it's pretty awful to stop inviting someone for behaviour that isn't inconsiderate or thoughtless or rude. I mean the other child is a 2 year old. However, you can't control the group, and sometimes groups do splinter for both good and bad reasons.

I think it's pretty much up to you to decide whether you want to stick with the group (your sanity is important too!) or if you would find it too stressful. And if you want to have the other mom and her kid over that would be nice, but eventually it will probably come out that your kid still sees the other kids (once the kids can talk well enough.)

I personally would want to see a discussion with the other mom. Like "Wow these outings seem to be a bit rough on your child...how is that for you?"


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *betsyj* 
So only the Mom of the puking kid deserves this consideration? And what about the other Moms? They don't deserve a fun outing? This sounds well beyond a high needs kid anyways.

Why not take a break and try when the kid is a bit older and maybe better able to handle such outings?

In a group of 2-year olds, esp. once potty learning starts, the chances of any outing being bodily fluid and scream free are definitely not in the adults' favour. I get what you're saying, but the fact is kids can be messy and loud.

Playgroups are messy and stuff does happen. It's hard to say without knowing how extreme it is but it seems to me a little tolerance goes a long, long way. From the way I read the OP, the kid screamed indoors but not the entire trip. It seems like some chat about what a good place for outings would be might go a longer way than exclusion.

I also think -- and this is truly just opinion -- that our insistence that we never ever be inconvenienced or uncomfortable in any way is very exclusionary of people with differences and indeed of children and families. The only way to change that is by being willing to have a scream-filled afternoon now and then.


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

If someone's child were screaming and vomiting every time we were together, I'd probably take a break from them, especially if the events were weekly. If it's only when you go out, then maybe suggest staying in people's homes for a while. I don't think you're wrong for not wanting to exclude her, but if the other moms are truly unhappy being on outings with her, then it's probably not in anyone's best interest for it to continue.


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

Quote:

I also think -- and this is truly just opinion -- that our insistence that we never ever be inconvenienced or uncomfortable in any way is very exclusionary of people with differences and indeed of children and families. The only way to change that is by being willing to have a scream-filled afternoon now and then.
Agreed. I would not feel comfortable excluding someone in this situation. I'd feel really REALLY bad about it.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *betsyj* 
A toddler who is screaming and vomiting regularly is not a normal set of behaviors. Include this Mom in other outings but there is no way I think it is right that everyone else has to have a crappy time just to be inclusive.

yeah, moms like me with a sn kid should stay home so everyone else can have fun.

One time, my sister looked at my DD and said, "I wish you were different than you are. It would be so much more fun for the rest of us."

My advice, kindly talk to the mother of the child having problems and suggest an evaluation. Be very sweet, hopefully you'll never know the heart break. Stay her friend.

What to do about the playgroup isn't anything I have experience with. I'm the mother of the wierd kid.


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

These moms don't sound like the type of people I would want to be friends with (what happens if your daughter has a bad day? Are they going to decide to kick you out, too?), so I would bow out gracefully myself.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Seems to me that the group is sort of jumping to conclusions. Has anyone tried discussing things with the other mother? Something along the lines of "Little Suzy seemed really upset at the zoo outing. Do you think she might be overwelmed by this type of outing?" Maybe the other mother would welcome a chance to talk about the situation. Or maybe you could help her see that this might not be entirely typical toddler behavior and suggest a quick check with the pediatrician or something.

At least if you have approached her first then she might understand why she is suddenly left out.

All of that said though, unless you are the appointed leader of the group, it doesn't seem like you can do much to influence the other moms. You can alway continue with this group AND get together separately with the other mother though.


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## newbymom05 (Aug 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
I also think -- and this is truly just opinion -- that our insistence that we never ever be inconvenienced or uncomfortable in any way is very exclusionary of people with differences and indeed of children and families. The only way to change that is by being willing to have a scream-filled afternoon now and then.

But it's not now and then, it's every time. And it isn't normal two-year old tantrums, the OP seems pretty clear that she and her group consider it to be out of the realm of normal. I also got the impression from the OP that she agrees the child's behavior puts a damper on the whole group--she's not saying she has such a great time and doesn't understand where the other moms are coming from.

I think it's great that you want to include everyone, and in a perfect world, I'd be saying rock on. But for me personally, my once a week playdate is a big thing. It requires effort and planning on my part and sometimes money, and I need to feel that my child and I have a good time to make it worth it. If one person was consistently making it unpleasant, either they would leave or I would. In the OP's case, the rest of the group has made the decision for her, despite her sympathetic input. Playgroups are just that--they're a group of like-minded individuals that meet for play and social interaction, not some kind of lifetime commitment.

But seriously, I get what you're saying and think you're coming from a heart-felt place, it's just that in a 2 y/o playgroup, for me personally I would have to put my own sanity ahead of someone else.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

This is obviously a heated topic, and emotions are running high. Please keep your responses within the User Agreement. Thanks!


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

It seems to me that the first step might be to ask the mother if she has ideas for outings that might be more fun for her DD.


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## SunshineJ (Mar 26, 2008)

Not directed at any person or post directly in this thread but an overall observation here. I love how we've become so tolerant as a society until it inconveniences us.







It sounds like the child has an issue or two, but you know what? That doesn't mean that it's insurmountable OR that no other child will end up with their own issues. Keep kicking kids out of the playgroup when they're going through a bad stage and want to guess how many kids will be there by age 5?

DD reacted that way to loud noises, and yeah, she was a pukey kid. The entire cause of her behaviour was an undiagnosed milk allergy. That's it. And I would have SO appreciated it if someone had suggested that could be causing her hypersensitive hearing! If nothing else, we would have had a clue sooner and she wouldn't have gone on like that until she was 5. I have to agree with some of the others, this isn't a playgroup I'd be comfortable continuing to be involved with.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newbymom05* 
I think it's great that you want to include everyone, and in a perfect world, I'd be saying rock on. But for me personally, my once a week playdate is a big thing. It requires effort and planning on my part and sometimes money, and I need to feel that my child and I have a good time to make it worth it. If one person was consistently making it unpleasant, either they would leave or I would. In the OP's case, the rest of the group has made the decision for her, despite her sympathetic input. Playgroups are just that--they're a group of like-minded individuals that meet for play and social interaction, not some kind of lifetime commitment.

But seriously, I get what you're saying and think you're coming from a heart-felt place, it's just that in a 2 y/o playgroup, for me personally I would have to put my own sanity ahead of someone else.

If it were making me personally insane, sure. I'd agree with you. But if it were just on the indoor bits of the zoo at outings, ehn. It wouldn't drive me nuts. Or I'd just stay a bit longer to decompress after.

I see playgroups as kind of inherently annoying in a way. The kids fight over toys; sand gets in the stroller, whatever. For me they were about being in a group learning to cope with being a parent and helping my child to cope with being a child. In a very - gritty way, I guess. Not that mine were insane, but for sure there were kids you wondered about. Most of them grew out of whatever it was.

Not to get too Jean Vanier on the thread but I really truly believe that people who have differences (and I'm not clear where this child is on that spectrum) bring out our own challenges.

I pretty much think learning to cope with the screaming vomiting child and just be there with that family in that moment is a gift _to me_ so that I can confront my own 'stuff' in accepting those things. I mean if we were talking about a malicious relative or something, that would be different. But we're talking about an innocent child and a parent trying to socialize.


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## db1au (May 23, 2005)

As the weird kid and now the weird adult with a weird kid, please talk with this mother. Share your concerns with her, perhaps research sensory issues and give her copies are bring it up with her. Please don't just exclude her without giving her a reason. How can this mother help her child if she has no idea what the issues are or how to deal with them. Chances are the mother already knows the child is "difficult" but may or may not know how to "fix" her child.


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## snoopy5386 (May 6, 2005)

I'm confused - does the group not want to invite her to anything anymore - both in home playdates and trips? Or just the trips? Who is going to tell her and how? Because finding out that all my friends took a trip to the zoo without me and my kid would feel really hurtful....Also how does the mom handle the child when she has these screaming fits and vomiting episodes? That would be a big factor for me as well.


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## scottishmommy (Nov 30, 2009)

WOW! I can't believe these women. Excluding a pukey two year old? I could understand if the child were violent AND the mother didn't do anything about it. Ya know what? Some kids are different. People need to get over it and accept that the world isn't made up of cookie cutter gingerbread children.


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## Encinalien (Mar 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 

Could someone nicely tell the mom that the screaming scares the other kids and maybe if her dd gets overstimulated and has trouble, could she take her outside until the trouble passes so the other kids don't end up getting overstimulated as well from the screaming? Something like that. It seems like "kids starts screaming sometimes" can be handled differently.


Honestly, this sounds like the right suggestion to me. Like if my kid acts up in public I take him outside 'till he can get it togeather. Maybe she thinks that it's ok because it's a kids group and everyone understands. I'd tell her.
It's better she be told than having her feel snubbed by what she calls friends wandering what she did wrong or what rumors were spread.


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

I don't think you should neccasarily exclude her/them, if the moms willing to work with her dd and try and keep the screaming to a minimum. But really, if her dd is screaming and puking on every.single.outting and at every.single.playgroup for weeks or months on end? Then, hows that fun for anyone? Playgroups are supposed to be fun for *everyone* not just a support group for one family whose kids are having issues!!

I goto two different playgroups 2x a week, almost every week. But we've been known to stay home if DS1's just acting crazy and upset about every little thing. I've been known to take him outside or otherwise away from the group if he starts acting crazy. I assume thats standard behavior... if this moms not doing that, if she's assuming that cause' its a playgroup and all toddlers tantrum *some* times, then its OK for her dd to freak out at every single one? THAT I'd have an issue with.

Tolerance and understanding is one thing. Allowing one family to ruin everyones trip every single week? Thats a whole nother ball game. Especially when your going places like the zoo that cost money!!


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## lrgs (Jan 21, 2009)

Yikes.........I feel bad for that mom and her DD. Forgive my baby brain, do they want her excluded from the group entirely or just from outings? I would also question whether I wanted to spend time with this group of women. What kind of message are they sending? If someone is different then you, requires some extra help, has special needs, is high needs, etc they should be excluded from the group. How about some empathy or trying to help this mom out? I would think she probably needs the support of a good group of friends more then ever, rather then being ostracized. I'm an emotional preggo right now and that actually kind of makes me sad. I can see the point of not really enjoying the outings (and wanting to do so) but surely some type of happy medium can be reached? Could they suggest that she not attend the outings where her DD is like to get overstimulated (as I can see how this wouldn't be fun for anyone involved......the group or the mom and her DD). Tough situation..........good luck OP.


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## gbailey (Mar 10, 2009)

Thanks everyone who responded. I'm not going to stop joining the other moms because truthfully, I enjoy our time together and DD really loves it. It took me a long time to find some other moms to interact with in person.

But I did decide to call the mom myself. The other moms were just planning to exclude her from our emails. First, I discussed some TV shows we both like and then I asked her how she and her DD were enjoying the meet ups. I was very gentle but honest with her. I told her the other moms were concerned her daughter was not enjoying the meet ups and they worry her daughter not having fun is effecting the other kids ability to enjoy themselves. She actually opened up to me a bit so I am glad I called. This is kind of long so sorry in advance.

Her daughter had surgery for something called hydrocephelus a little over a year ago. She said her daughter was fine at first but is now in speech therapy and having a lot of issues. She told me she covers her ears and screams at the slightest noise, vomits often and is often sick. She said outings are difficult for them both.

She's nervous about having her evaluated because she thinks her daughter may be autistic. Frankly, I'm surprised her pediatrician isn't requesting this. Anyway, I told her we can still do something on our own with our kids that her DD may enjoy more. She told me she appreciated the call and would have been more hurt if no one bothered to say anything to her. I feel bad for what she's going through with her daughter.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

*gbailey*, I think it's a beautiful thing that you reached out to this mama. I'm sure you made a big difference just by being willing to talk to her and not just cut her off.


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## lrgs (Jan 21, 2009)

I have to say I'm glad you had the courtesy to call her and speak with her directly......it was nice of you to reach out to her. I have to say I find it very sad the other mom's were just going to exclude her from the emails and not have the courtesy of explaining it to her.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gbailey* 
She's nervous about having her evaluated because she thinks her daughter may be autistic. Frankly, I'm surprised her pediatrician isn't requesting this. Anyway, I told her we can still do something on our own with our kids that her DD may enjoy more. She told me she appreciated the call and would have been more hurt if no one bothered to say anything to her. I feel bad for what she's going through with her daughter.

I think you handled it GREAT!









Early intervention makes a difference. There's no way of knowing what her DD will be like in a year or 5 or 10. The mom might really enjoy reading something by Temple Grandin, who has high functioning autism and has written several books. I'm reading "The Way I See It" right now and it's really super.


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## honey-lilac (Jun 30, 2009)

mamazee said:


> parents whose kids aren't high needs see "bad kid" and just really don't get it.QUOTE]
> 
> ITA.
> 
> ...


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Well done, OP.


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## mamaofthree (Jun 5, 2002)

oh that poor mama. how hard it must be for her. i am so glad you spoke to her. it makes me sad that so many wanted to just leave her out. i can't imagine how hard it must be for her and then to have a group of "friends" just leave you in the dust. wow.

h


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## pauletoy (Aug 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
Tantrums and reflux? I'd call that within the realm of normal for a 20-month-old.

:Yeah It certainly discribes our 20 month old.


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## rzberrymom (Feb 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
If your playgroup is 2 year olds I can pretty much guarantee that if you are still meeting by the time the kids are 5, every child will have demonstrated some kind of behaviour that is ban-worthy by then at least once.

No kidding!









OP, I think it's a great idea to do something more low-key with her!


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

OP, you did a good thing.

I'm really saddened by some of the responses on this thread.


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## mamadebug (Dec 28, 2006)

OP, the way you handled it was so thoughtful. I am so glad the other mom was responsive and opened up to you. It feels so nice when another mom reaches out!

It can be so hard when you have a kid who is a little different. My son, who is now 5 years old, has sensory issues. We knew he responded differently (oftentimes loud, disruptive, physical etc), but didn't know what it was called or how to best handle it until he was 4.5 years old. I will be forever grateful for the loving, accepting and tolerant group of moms we have hung out with since he was a baby. They could have easily excluded us, but didn't. It made a HUGE difference in our lives to have people like them as our friends. I know we were not always enjoyable to be around, especially when he was a toddler. But, real friendship goes beyond that - we were all there to support each other in this crazy adventure of motherhood. Screaming, a tantrum, a barfing kid - don't all of our kids do that at times? Doesn't it feel so much better when your kid barfs if another mom is getting out wipes to help you clean up rather than thinking about how your child is ruining their time?

If the child was older and badly behaved and the mom was tuned out to that, I could see not wanting to include them. But this baby can't help what she is doing, the mom is aware that things aren't quite right, and I would trust she is handling it the best she can. Excluding them in this situation just seems so mean.

I am sure this mom appreciates your call so much! When you have the odd kid, it can mean so much to have someone ask you about it and talk about it rather than judge!


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## Stella_luna (Jan 26, 2006)

That's so awesome that you talked to her. That poor mama. I feel so bad for her. Hydrocephalus is really scary--and if that little girl underwent neurosurgery so recently, of course she's still affected, by the surgery and the hydrocephalus itself. You're being a good friend.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

other thoughts ---

You might ask her what kind of things are working well for her DD right now and make a plan to do something soon that would work. For my DD at that age, playing with playdough with one other child was really a lot more fun than something more "exciting."

It sounds like her child has sensory issues (possibly something more). There's a great book on sensory issues called "The Out of Sync Child."

On one hand I really need friends that I can talk to about what is going on with my DD, at the same time, I don't like it when friendships become *just* about my DD's sn. Keep seeing the mom as a whole person, and keep seeing her child as a whole person (not just a child with sn and a mom of a child with sn).


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## childsplay (Sep 4, 2007)

I'd find a new, and more mature group of moms to hang out with. Once they 'get rid' of this child, they'll be looking for thier next 'imperfect' child to ditch. Seriously, it goes on all the time in Jr. High.

I have a little daycare boy who is the same way, he screams, bawls, barfs, and grunts. He's 2 and almost completely non-verbal. But he's just the sweetest little guy (once you get past the shrieking and barfing).
One thing I found with him is in order to take him somewhere with the others, like the library storytime, playgroups, museums, etc. I need to explain very clearly where we are going, what we are doing and who is coming with us, and buddy him up with a slightly older child. Letting him lead, or linger at exhibits (to a certain point) also helps enormously. And the less adults talking at him or around him the better he is.
Could you and this other Mom start doing things together with the kids?
Maybe if there weren't so many Moms around, talking, frowning, directing their kids and all, she might feel more comfortable.
Some kids are just super sensitive and they freak out when they get lost in the shuffle or feel threatened/unsure.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

I have had to remove several posts that are taking issue with other members and responding to them in a way that takes direct issue with the member rather than actually discussing the various arguments and positions. If you don't like someone's post, please keep your comments to discussing the posts rather than the posters. If you feel something violates the User Agreement, report it. If you disagree with someone's position, you may certainly do so politely. But please refrain from making comments about the quality and nature of other members' posts.

Feel free to PM me with any questions or concerns.


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## Cascadian (Jan 28, 2009)

OP - what a FANTASTIC job you did with the phonecall! You are a gem









I'm torn on the issue.

I have great empathy for people who are struggling. My DD was HN, and I didn't get out much when she was an infant because I didn't want to subject other people to her cries and my irritation.

OTOH, when I finally did get out when DD was better in groups, it was the biggest break that I had all week. To hang out, chill, relax. It *was* all about me, because I so needed that space. Having the situation mentioned in the OP would have made me cringe and choose another group...maybe, sometimes.


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## pranamama (Nov 6, 2002)

I would start to look for another playgroup to join, or maybe just some other community groups in general.


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## tanyam926 (May 25, 2005)

I know how hard it is to find other moms to connect w/, it can be very isolating being stuck at home w/the kiddos and no one to talk to.

Op, I was glad to read your update, it was good of you to talk to the mom directly and I am sure she appreciated your openness, honesty, and friendliness.

If I were in your position I would seriously rethink the group of moms that I was hanging out with though. I don't think I would even want to be friends w/people who were so judgmental and mean. It was just cruel that they wanted to just drop the mom from the email list w/out an explanation. The way they handled the situation is just bad all around. I would keep thinking that it could have been me, and I know I would have been hurt if I was the one that my group wanted to exclude.


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## Jenifer76 (Apr 20, 2005)

Good for you, OP!

Seeing some of the reponses makes me glad I have a group of friends with SN kids (though all of my friends with non-SN kids are very accepting too). We don't have to explain behaviors or feel embarassed because we have all BTDT.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gbailey* 
Thanks everyone who responded. I'm not going to stop joining the other moms because truthfully, I enjoy our time together and DD really loves it. It took me a long time to find some other moms to interact with in person.

But I did decide to call the mom myself. The other moms were just planning to exclude her from our emails. First, I discussed some TV shows we both like and then I asked her how she and her DD were enjoying the meet ups. I was very gentle but honest with her. I told her the other moms were concerned her daughter was not enjoying the meet ups and they worry her daughter not having fun is effecting the other kids ability to enjoy themselves. She actually opened up to me a bit so I am glad I called. This is kind of long so sorry in advance.

Her daughter had surgery for something called hydrocephelus a little over a year ago. She said her daughter was fine at first but is now in speech therapy and having a lot of issues. She told me she covers her ears and screams at the slightest noise, vomits often and is often sick. She said outings are difficult for them both.

She's nervous about having her evaluated because she thinks her daughter may be autistic. Frankly, I'm surprised her pediatrician isn't requesting this. Anyway, I told her we can still do something on our own with our kids that her DD may enjoy more. She told me she appreciated the call and would have been more hurt if no one bothered to say anything to her. I feel bad for what she's going through with her daughter.


Thank you so much for calling her and not just ditching her.

These outings did not sound fun for ANYONE least of all the little girl in question. poor baby.

I think you handled things beautifully. Clearly playdates at the zoo and such were not working out but that is no reason to DITCH someone. You reached out to her, did not abandon her, I owuld say she has even made a real friend instead of an aquaintence but also ended the torture of the playdates (honestly regardless of how the other moms felt or their fears this kid sounds like she was hating these get togethers.)

Honestly I know how precious it is to have a group of moms to hang out with but you really may want to reconsider this choice in friends. I mean, seriously, it is one thing to rethink weather or not you want to continue on doing things the way it has always been done but to just stop emailing someone without ever asking questions, reaching out, maybe changing plans to accomodate.....thats just cruel. and it might still benefit you but how long before it is you that stops getting the emails for whatever mystery reason? at the very least, they owed this mom a heads up "we won't be inviting you any more" sort of thing. just going behind her back is just plain mean and hateful.


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## Hey Mama! (Dec 27, 2003)

I would talk to the mother and ask if she would be comfortable with sharing this information with the rest of the group. The other moms are probably totally clueless about it and may be more tolerant of the child's behavior. It's worth a shot.

I had a difficult, loud, pukey, highly sensitive child. If I didn't get to go to playgroup when she was a toddler I think I would have gone round the bend. I shadowed her like crazy and removed her from situations that were over stimulating to her though.


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## mommy2maya (Jun 7, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hey Mama!* 
I would talk to the mother and ask if she would be comfortable with sharing this information with the rest of the group. The other moms are probably totally clueless about it and may be more tolerant of the child's behavior. It's worth a shot.

Totally agree!

Also, I would suggest the mom get in touch with her neurosurgeon and early intervention. I would think that the puking and the screaming might not be sensory, but pain and imbalance,


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## NightOwlwithowlet (Jun 13, 2009)

This is a hard topic for me to respond to because I was the mom of the kid kicked out of the play group. My son was not really talking around other people, he liked other kids, but didn't really interact when he was two. He wasn't aggressive, didn't scream, and mostly communicated with body language, gestures and grunts. We were excluded from the play group because and the exact quote is etched in my brain "He's just not like the other kids, sorry."

Despite that I found another play group, he's almost eight and half the kids coming to his birthday party are from that play group. They were his first typical peer group and they dragged him into their world. He learned to play and talk from them. The moms are some of my son's biggest cheer leaders and supporters. They showed me all the ways my son was like their kids, not how he was different. I can't quote what they say about my son, but they are all good and all supportive.

OP- you did a wonderful and kind thing.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

NightOwlwithowlet -- I'm so glad you shared your story here!








That must have been so rough for you -- but clearly the families of the first playgroup were the ones who lost out. I'm glad you didn't give up and that you found a new group that was supportive!

OP -- I'm also glad that you're standing by your friend! You never know when the shoe might be on the other foot, and this exclusive group may be kicking you out next. So even if you stay involved with them now, it's good that you're not burning any bridges with the friend they are currently excluding.


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## gbailey (Mar 10, 2009)

Thanks for all of the great responses and advice everyone. I ended up spending some time with the mom today and her daughter. She came over to our apartment and I set up some toys the girls could play with. We talked about TV shows and entertainment gossip, etc. I do think her daughter has some serious issues though. When my cellphone rang (it's not on high) her daughter went ballistic. She stood up, covered her ears, started screaming and stomping her feet. I put the call on ignore and she stopped. When my house phone rang (the ring is also on low because I just can't stand the sound of our ringer) and she did the same thing. I asked the mom if everything was okay and her response? "Sometimes she just does this." It's clear she's in total denial. Yesterday I thought she was going to do something about it but today it sounds like she's not going to do anything. The little girl smiles a lot but can't concentrate on anything. When DD pointed to the doggie she just stared. She didn't seem interested in any of the toys at all. Eventually, DD just played alone. I tried to read to them both but she wasn't interested either.

When it was snack time her daughter vomitted everything. Her mom was kind of whatever about it. She cleaned it up and basically said the same thing, "she's always throwing up." I gently told her given the situation she should see the nuerosurgeon just to make sure nothing is wrong. I also told her I don't know what she's going through but if something is wrong early intervention is the best way to go. I don't have a problem putting my cell phone on vibrate or turning the house ringer off when she comes over but this mama needs to do something for her baby.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Wow, that is kinda sad. If my child had brain surgery I would be calling the Dr. the second something didn't seem right. Clearly this child needs some sort of medical intervention. this may be an issue that can be corrected. it may be something temporary that can become permenant if not treated. I hope this family will seek out some help for the little girls sake


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## Icehockey18 (Oct 24, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gbailey* 
Thanks for all of the great responses and advice everyone. I ended up spending some time with the mom today and her daughter. She came over to our apartment and I set up some toys the girls could play with. We talked about TV shows and entertainment gossip, etc. I do think her daughter has some serious issues though. When my cellphone rang (it's not on high) her daughter went ballistic. She stood up, covered her ears, started screaming and stomping her feet. I put the call on ignore and she stopped. When my house phone rang (the ring is also on low because I just can't stand the sound of our ringer) and she did the same thing. I asked the mom if everything was okay and her response? "Sometimes she just does this." It's clear she's in total denial. Yesterday I thought she was going to do something about it but today it sounds like she's not going to do anything. The little girl smiles a lot but can't concentrate on anything. When DD pointed to the doggie she just stared. She didn't seem interested in any of the toys at all. Eventually, DD just played alone. I tried to read to them both but she wasn't interested either.

When it was snack time her daughter vomitted everything. Her mom was kind of whatever about it. She cleaned it up and basically said the same thing, "she's always throwing up." I gently told her given the situation she should see the nuerosurgeon just to make sure nothing is wrong. I also told her I don't know what she's going through but if something is wrong early intervention is the best way to go. I don't have a problem putting my cell phone on vibrate or turning the house ringer off when she comes over but this mama needs to do something for her baby.

Wow, how sad. I am not a neurosurgeon, but I am nearly finished with my PhD in neuroscience, and those symptoms seem rather alarming! I am not sure how much influence you have over that mama, but I would def try a follow up call to see if you can convince her to have her daughter checked out.
That was very kind of you to have thm over, and they are lucky to have you as a friend! Iam sorry you are going through this, it must he difficult to watch a child suffer like that! (((hugs)))) to you mama!


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## gbailey (Mar 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Icehockey18* 
Wow, how sad. I am not a neurosurgeon, but I am nearly finished with my PhD in neuroscience, and those symptoms seem rather alarming! I am not sure how much influence you have over that mama, but I would def try a follow up call to see if you can convince her to have her daughter checked out.
That was very kind of you to have thm over, and they are lucky to have you as a friend! Iam sorry you are going through this, it must he difficult to watch a child suffer like that! (((hugs)))) to you mama!


It is difficult and I am wary of saying anything because my mouth got me in trouble late last year when I thought I was being helpful to a friend. She took it the wrong way and I don't want another mama to think I am questioning their care for their child. Truthfully, this is very difficult for me to do but I am assuming she's going to get her checked out and maybe wants to keep the information to herself...that's what I hope at least.


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## Redifer (Nov 25, 2006)

gbailey, I think it's very admirable the way you handled the situation.

As someone who doesn't get their feathers ruffled very easily, I find it hard to understand how simple occurences can "ruin someone's day". Not saying it doesn't happen. Just that there are always obstacles in every "good" thing, and I'm a very "shrug it off" person.

Likewise, I find it hard to understand the other mothers' very quick jump to exclusion. What better way to begin teaching empathy into our children than by continuing friendships and acquaintances with people who may have a much "rougher" run in life. The situations described could easily be turned into an experience in patience, tolerance, acceptance, and empathy for others. I'm somewhat saddened by that.

Likewise, in response to your latest post... I think I may have something to offer to ease your mind. I come off as a very friendly, open person. But there are certain things that I'm very, very private about. Not neccessarily out of shame, but because often, I feel that it's unfair for me to lay my (sometimes extensive) problems out at someone else's feet. So there are many times that I will "brush something off" in front of what I consider friends. That doesn't mean I'm shrugging off my responsibilities behind closed doors, but that I don't feel comfortable discussing my struggles at that present time. I, too, have done the "oh, blah blah blah" and made light of a situation, not because I didn't take it seriously, but because at that point I just don't feel comfortable talking about it, even in small amounts.

In any case, you're awesome. Just thought you should know. Everyone needs to hear that sometimes.


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## gcgirl (Apr 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gbailey* 
Thanks everyone who responded. I'm not going to stop joining the other moms because truthfully, I enjoy our time together and DD really loves it. It took me a long time to find some other moms to interact with in person.

But I did decide to call the mom myself. The other moms were just planning to exclude her from our emails. First, I discussed some TV shows we both like and then I asked her how she and her DD were enjoying the meet ups. I was very gentle but honest with her. I told her the other moms were concerned her daughter was not enjoying the meet ups and they worry her daughter not having fun is effecting the other kids ability to enjoy themselves. She actually opened up to me a bit so I am glad I called. This is kind of long so sorry in advance.

Her daughter had surgery for something called hydrocephelus a little over a year ago. She said her daughter was fine at first but is now in speech therapy and having a lot of issues. She told me she covers her ears and screams at the slightest noise, vomits often and is often sick. She said outings are difficult for them both.

She's nervous about having her evaluated because she thinks her daughter may be autistic. Frankly, I'm surprised her pediatrician isn't requesting this. Anyway, I told her we can still do something on our own with our kids that her DD may enjoy more. She told me she appreciated the call and would have been more hurt if no one bothered to say anything to her. I feel bad for what she's going through with her daughter.

Thank you. I am so glad you took the initiative to reach out to this mom. I have NO experience whatsoever with this sort of thing, but I can't imagine just shutting them out, especially with the behaviors you described, which even sounded to ME like possible health/sensory issues. I also hope you encourage the mom to get her daughter evaluated. If she's autistic, she NEEDS TO KNOW. She can access more support and get educated about it rather than trying to just tough it out on her own.

I also hope you let the mom's group know what you did, because even if you enjoy hanging out with them, they oughta know what they were planning to do was rude and hurtful. You don't even have to SAY that; they should get it just from hearing how YOU dealt with it.


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## gbailey (Mar 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Redifer* 
gbailey, I think it's very admirable the way you handled the situation.

As someone who doesn't get their feathers ruffled very easily, I find it hard to understand how simple occurences can "ruin someone's day". Not saying it doesn't happen. Just that there are always obstacles in every "good" thing, and I'm a very "shrug it off" person.

Likewise, I find it hard to understand the other mothers' very quick jump to exclusion. What better way to begin teaching empathy into our children than by continuing friendships and acquaintances with people who may have a much "rougher" run in life. The situations described could easily be turned into an experience in patience, tolerance, acceptance, and empathy for others. I'm somewhat saddened by that.

Likewise, in response to your latest post... I think I may have something to offer to ease your mind. I come off as a very friendly, open person. But there are certain things that I'm very, very private about. Not neccessarily out of shame, but because often, I feel that it's unfair for me to lay my (sometimes extensive) problems out at someone else's feet. So there are many times that I will "brush something off" in front of what I consider friends. That doesn't mean I'm shrugging off my responsibilities behind closed doors, but that I don't feel comfortable discussing my struggles at that present time. I, too, have done the "oh, blah blah blah" and made light of a situation, not because I didn't take it seriously, but because at that point I just don't feel comfortable talking about it, even in small amounts.

In any case, you're awesome. Just thought you should know. *Everyone needs to hear that sometimes.*









Thank you so much. I really needed to hear that today


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## kis95 (Aug 13, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NightOwlwithowlet*
> 
> This is a hard topic for me to respond to because I was the mom of the kid kicked out of the play group. My son was not really talking around other people, he liked other kids, but didn't really interact when he was two. He wasn't aggressive, didn't scream, and mostly communicated with body language, gestures and grunts. We were excluded from the play group because and the exact quote is etched in my brain "He's just not like the other kids, sorry."
> 
> ...


I haven't finished reading all of the responses to this thread yet, but this one post particularly struck me. I have never joined a 'mommy group' or anything like that, but I've been on a few outings, usually with my SIL. I have a 6-year-old daughter, and a 5-year-old and a 4-year old son. Our two boys were diagnosed with autism just in the past year. Our youngest is speech delayed (was almost non-verbal until less than a year ago). Our other son has a number of anxieties and social delays, along with some of the 'weird' behaviours that can go along with autism. They don't always act "...just like other kids", and when they're not, I can generally pick up on how uncomfortable and/or confusing their actions can be to those who don't know. I would like to assume that my SIL only asks us on outings once a year or so because she is busy. It has to be the reason since our children are virtually the same age, they're cousins, and we live within a ten-minute drive of each other. Right?

On behalf of the mother with the 2-year-old who vomits and covers her ears, thank you for reaching out. I would be amazingly HURT if I were left out of a playgroup because of how my children did or did not behave. Of course I understand if a child is simply misbehaving out of choice (for lack of a better word), or if they're acting like a 'typical' toddler. Whenever one of my guys is having a meltdown, I try my best to remove them from the situation - for their sake as well as the people who have to listen. Once the tantrum/meltdown/whatever is over, we try again. I do my best to work with my children and their challenges, and I also try to be considerate of others. I don't want to listen to a kid freak out, and I know others don't want to either. Regardless, tantrums happen at playgroups, SN or not. If other parents find the behaviour of my children annoying or unsettling, then I probably don't want to hang out with them. I want to expose all of my children to tolerance and acceptance, not junior high, 'mean-girl' behaviour.

OP, thank you again for being so kind. Nightowl, I'm sorry that happened to you and your son. I'm so glad you found somewhere welcoming!


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## beenmum (Nov 29, 2010)

Oh God, this brings back so many memories.

THIS is why us parents of special needs kids feel so darned alone and ashamed.

I think excluding a mother who is valieantly trying to give her SN child a typical life and typical expereinces is asinine.

Intolerance of SN kids is growing lately. The entire world has a "Its not MY kid, why the heck should I be put out, bothered or inconvienced for a child that isnt mine?"

Right up until THAT persons child develops something atypical....and then she will be next on the chopping block.

Any kid could have a brain injury, a stroke, a near drowning, a spetic infection that limits their abilities. No ones child is immune to these things..


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## beenmum (Nov 29, 2010)

OP. You handled things wonderfully. Thank you so much for that.


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## Lisa1970 (Jan 18, 2009)

Thing is, so many people talk about diversity or wanting to teach their children tolerance and to be giving, especially on these boards. But then as soon as there is a disabled child, they run. It seems if they are raising money for women in 3rd world countries (who knows if it actually goes to anything) is something someone likes to do, or spending an hour sorting clothes at a shelter, but as soon as they have to actually spend time with someone different than them, or expose their children to someone different, which is where the real diversity comes in, they run.

I am the mom of a "weird kid" too. I have grown to just accept that no one wants him around. It is sad and pitiful. Places that seek out different religions or skin colors just to find "diversity", but cannot tolerate a child with any sort of special needs. Just sad.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


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## happyhippie (Apr 1, 2011)

I am appalled by the selfishness and the eagerness to discriminate from some of the previous posters.
I applaud you original poster, for opening your heart to this other mama. No doubt, she realizes her little one is making a scene. In fact, my heart breaks for her, because mother's of children with high needs, gravely need support and community. Honestly, all we have in this crazy world is the love we get and can give. I think the best thing you could do is set an example to the other moms and your child by making sure this mother and her child are not pushed out. That they are loved. If the others don't like it, then I would get new friends. There is a lot of 2 year olds in the world, and a lot of moms too that are aching for some friends. This is that moment where you can "be the change..." Because I really do think this small act of love is a big deal.

Good luck original poster. I have been there, and I am sure someday I will be the mom with the kid who is making a scene.


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## happyhippie (Apr 1, 2011)

I totally agree with the previous posters. You are awesome mama! So happy to see some rational responses. My heart breaks for all of you who have experienced this sort of discrimination.








to you all.


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## ElsieLC (Dec 28, 2007)

OP--I really like what you have said to your mom friend!

It seems like there are two issues in the original question:

1. When is it right to exclude someone from a playgroup

and

2. What do you do when you see another mom under-reacting to worrisome behavior? When a kid exhibits disturbing symptoms/behavior, and the mom shrugs it off as "quirky"?

I think it feels different if the mom knows what's going on, saying, "My kid has Condition X and we do A, B, and C to make things better for her." Then I can ask questions and help out and feel like a friend.

I find it very hard to be with a mom who seems unaware of how different her kid's issues are. I feel "on guard" all the time, that I am always trying to not talk about certain things.


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

OP, I'm curious how things are now. I have a friend with a child who had neurosurgery for hydrocephalus 6 months ago, sounds similar, but she is supposed to call the neurologist and the hospital/rehab immediately if her son vomits at all. Literally, she's called when everyone else in the house was vomiting with a stomach bug and then her son vomited too. She had to call, they had to do an MRI and make sure it wasn't a life threatening issue. And then they could conclude that it was the same stomach bug the rest of the family had and to go on with their lives. But he had to do the MRI first, because if it had been pressure inside his brain again, it could have killed him. That's my understanding of it anyway. I too would worry that this mother doesn't seem to be doing enough if the child vomits all the time and is sound sensitive. I might ask, nicely, but ask, "Does her neurologist know that she vomits all the time? Were they able to give you some reasoning behind why it happens?" If it's all been analyzed and looked at by doctors, and they've cleared it as okay behavior and not medically worrisome, I'd have a much easier time getting together with the mother and child.

I do understand the special needs issue, having SN kids in my extended family. However, I think there's a balance. You don't want to cut out an outlet that the child and mother really need, but you want to give each child their own space too. I actually find outgoing/loud/vocal people (my ADHD brother; his autistic best friend as a child) to be exhausting. I didn't mind taking them all sorts of places, when I could drive and they couldn't, but I would burn out on dealing with their comments and behavior before too long. It's not that it was bad behavior per se, they thought it was great fun, but I have sensory issues of my own and need a fair amount of quiet and calm per day. I was very very grateful to also have some times that I didn't have to take along my SN younger brother, or my NT younger brother either for that matter, and could just be myself, have quiet spaces, or be with my friends. My brother's an adult, and I still don't think I've ever seen him still nor quiet, even when he's asleep.


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## ~Boudicca~ (Sep 7, 2005)

WOW how did this thread get dug back up but I am glad it did!

I am the mom of the Weird Kid as well. I have been lucky enough to have a little homeschool/mom's group that supported me through 2 years of hell with my SPD/speech issue kid. As a matter of fact, when I was at my breaking point, sick of dealing with the hair-raising emotional roller coaster that was Let's Get the Kids Together on Thursday, 2 kind moms shared their experiences dealing with kids like mine and pointed me in the right direction for help with her special needs. I feel very grateful for their presence in our lives. I cannot imagine what it would have been like had they dropped us because of my daughter's long list of physical and emotional difficulties. It's an uncomfortable place to be without the judgment and intolerance of others.

OP, how did things turn out with the mom and her LO? Are you still in contact with her?


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## sahli29 (Jan 23, 2004)

If the child did this at every outing I doubt I would want to go.It doesn't sound like fun to have a screaming/puking kid around. If we came across this type of child in a public place I would leave with my kids.


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## mamaofthree (Jun 5, 2002)

so the mom should be sequestered in her home indefinitely? that doesn't seem right. how can she ever help her dd learn to be out in the world if she has to stay home all the time for fear of people not liking having to deal with a kid who has some issues? how about showing some loving kindness and openness and helping her out instead of running away? it seems the lesson that the other kids are being taught is that being different is wrong.

h


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## Just1More (Jun 19, 2008)

I don't think people have to go to extremes either way. There is usually more than one side to a story, and in this case, there are five moms, each with their own experiences/backgrounds/problems/needs/etc. You can't just say, "Well, x should act like THIS." Because maybe x can't. The mom of the sick little girl is dealing with her own things, and just maybe, the moms who don't want to invite the little girl are, too. You can't know that they are being catty. You can't know what they are feeling.

Yes, I think the mom needs some support, but no, I don't think the other moms have to give it in THIS way. Sure, they should reach out to her, but to continue going on doing what they've been doing doesn't seem to be the solution. I find I can be much more supportive/helpful/long-suffering if the other person is being honest and open. I don't know how long I could continue a friendship with someone who was in denial about her child's needs, to the detriment of the child. That's not okay either. Maybe the mama needs a wake up call. Maybe she needs other people to say, "You need to fix this."

And it isn't true that other kids don't "pick this stuff" up. Mine have, and it has been incredibly hard to deal with. I am careful what we do and who we do it with. My children have to come first. No, we don't run from SN, but I don't let my kids be stressed/confused/etc just for the good of someone else. That isn't my job. If I am able to help someone else, then I need to do it on my time, not my child's.

There are almost always ways to balance things, and to compromise on what everyone's needs are. To say that because someone needs help doesn't negate that I have needs, too.

So, OP, I think you handled this very, very well, and I hope that you are able to help that Mama see that her little girl needs something. She is not okay.


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## beenmum (Nov 29, 2010)

We have had people cover their kids eyes when my daughter had her feeding tube in.B/c it may somehow become contagious to be around my kid. God that hurt so much.

I had someone ask me why I took IT out in public.

I was told that there were insturtions for kids like mine. That other people shouldnt have to *see* my kid.

We were asked why we just ddidnt let her die.

We had family refuse pictures of her.

Recently when a child asked why my daughter had a white cane and leg braces.....the mother said it was b/c she was "retarded" and "lets go play over here"


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## happyhippie (Apr 1, 2011)

beenmum









I cannot imagine. I am sorry you and your daughter have experienced such inhumanity.


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## Just1More (Jun 19, 2008)

I am sorry people have been so awful to you and your family. I hope you didn't take my post to mean I condone that kind of thing. I absolutely do not. Meanness is mean, and it's never okay.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *beenmum*
> 
> We have had people cover their kids eyes when my daughter had her feeding tube in.B/c it may somehow become contagious to be around my kid. God that hurt so much.
> 
> ...


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## DariusMom (May 29, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *beenmum*
> 
> We have had people cover their kids eyes when my daughter had her feeding tube in.B/c it may somehow become contagious to be around my kid. God that hurt so much.
> 
> ...










wow. I just don't know what to say to those kinds of comments. I'm so very sorry you and your family had to hear such vile things.


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## beenmum (Nov 29, 2010)

Thank you.

It amazing what people think they have the right to do and say to a child.

I had a PSW who had never seen my child before take the white cane out of my daughters hand and yell at her "Why do you have a blinds mans stick. You're not blind!"

My poor kid just stared up at her with a smile on her face and sid "Thats my cane" proudly.

I wanted to beat the women with it honestly. But I refrained.


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## LROM (Sep 10, 2008)

First off OP, you're a rockstar for the gracious, open way you've been concerned about this mom and her little girl and tried to make sure they were still included. You are awesome!

I think you said in another post that you are worried about how much to say/make concerned inquiries to the mom because you had another mom misinterpret your questions recently and it upset her and you, and you don't want that to happen here. I totally understand that concern.

Have you asked this mom what the doc who has been seeing her daughter since the surgery says about her symptoms? I wonder if some balance of asking that question plus saying (again) that a lot of conditions, the earlier they are identified and treated, the more likely it is there can be great improvement, wonder if that is worth saying to her a little bit more?

I know it's a fine line, but my heart is just dying for that poor little girl. I know almost nothing about hydrocephalus, but I do know that if not monitored or followed consistently, it can be an issue well into adulthood. Her symptoms could be signs that the problem is not totally gone or has come back or who knows what, but it just kills me that her mom is so in denial she may well be letting her daughter suffer irreparable harm.

You're a great friend that you have gone out of your way to try to help this little girl stay social. It's kinda mindblowing how adults (the girl's mom and the other moms in your playgroup) will go to such lengths not to discuss something so obvious and so concerning. Not that it's the other moms' business what is going on with her child medically, but obviously it's going to affect how others feel about being with you and I'd want others to understand what my daughter was dealing with, at least a little of it.

Anyway, that's not what's most important... what's most important is that you're being incredibly supportive and I hope there's a way for you to gently keep asking questions that are curious but also helping your friend to see you're there for her and you are willing to be a sounding board as she looks into what is going on with her daughter.

ETA: Oh, just realized this is an old thread! Yeah, OP, what ended up happening?


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