# On sleeping through the night...



## ihugtrees (Oct 16, 2008)

I've been reading on this board for awhile now, and I keep seeing post after post about people with children who are 12, 14, 18 months old and who wake up several times a night to nurse. I hope I don't come across as rude or mean, because I don't mean it that way at all...but IRL, I've never met anyone who's child didn't sleep 8 hours a night by the time they were 8 or 10 months old...most were sleeping through the night by 5 or 6 months. And I've met a LOT of children, having been babysitting for 12 years and nannying for 4 years.

Is this a co-sleeping thing? Is it a breastfeeding thing? Is it not giving solids until later? Or has every single child I've ever babysat or nannied for had to CIO night after night until they learned to just sleep 8 hours?


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## bubbamummy (Feb 25, 2009)

My son still wakes once a night (or more) and he is one, I have met more people with toddlers that wake rather than ones who dont. My son is now off breastmilk, onto cows milk and solids and he STILL wakes. He is not hungry at these wakings and just wants comfort, which is fine with me...he is still so little, one is not old IMO. Now if he is still waking when he is 5, that maybe a different story.


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## bluebunny (Jul 14, 2006)

Quote:

Is this a co-sleeping thing?
Maybe

Quote:

Is it a breastfeeding thing?
Maybe

Quote:

Is it not giving solids until later?
Possibly

Quote:

Or has every single child I've ever babysat or nannied for had to CIO night after night until they learned to just sleep 8 hours?
Probably.....just kidding!



My DS is almost 4 1/2 years old and he has nightwakings about 5-6 nights per week. My DD is 26 months and still nurses (and co-sleeps) and she wakes to nurse 2-4 times a night.

I have eight nieces and nephews who didn't sleep thru the night without wakings until at least two y.o., at the earliest, and five/six at the latest.

IRL, every child I know that does sleep 8+ hours per night before age two has been thru CIO. Sad, but true.









I think a lot has to do with a child's individual temperament and personality. Breastfeeding could play a part as it is more easily digested than formula. But probably more than breastfeeding, it is that the baby is used to mama comforting back to sleep.









Babies are only little for a short period of time so it doesn't bother me that much (at least the first 18 months, I am getting a little tired of it with my 26-month old 







).


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## JavaJunkie (Jan 16, 2009)

I never told people(strangers or acquaintances) that my kids weren't sleeping through the night. If anyone asked "Is he/she sleeping through the night?" I'd usually just say yes and move on. Also, my first was the only one that I actually had problems with as far as his sleep and nursing through the night. The other 2 were much easier, and I was much more rested.

Funny enough, I seem to meet/talk to more people IRL that volunteer the information that their children didn't sleep through the night until 1 or 2+ years. LOL That never used to happen even a few years ago. Maybe people are just being more open nowadays, or maybe it's because I moved to a different area.

But I do actually have a baby that sleeps through the night, currently. For now, anyway!


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## bubbamummy (Feb 25, 2009)

From 0-3 months my son slept though and he was breastfed and we didnt do CIO....then he stopped


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## lanamommyphd07 (Feb 14, 2007)

I know one family whose children have slept through the night, but they were Babywisers. Something I would never do to a kid--
most of the parents I know have at least one wake a night--usually to nurse or get a love. My dd will usually (when not ill or something) go to sleep with the boob around 8:30, then pop up again around 10 or 11 for "the other side", then be down for the night. I do not refer to this as "sleeping through the night" as she is waking at least once during her sleep. Many parents I know would really call it sleeping through tho. I think it all depends on what people think of it and whether they want bragging rights. I personally never set it as a goal as I saw it as not conducive to good bfing--at least in the early days.


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## bubbamummy (Feb 25, 2009)

medically isnt 'sleeping through the night' 5 hours of consecutive sleep?!


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## JavaJunkie (Jan 16, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sophieslion* 
medically isnt 'sleeping through the night' 5 hours of consecutive sleep?!

I think I've always heard/read that it's 6 consecutive hours.


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## bubbamummy (Feb 25, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JavaJunkie* 
I think I've always heard/read that it's 6 consecutive hours.









well then I guess my Samuel does sleep though...even though he is awake at 2am poking my eyes with his stubby finger


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## megan sacha (Oct 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sophieslion* 
From 0-3 months my son slept though and he was breastfed and we didnt do CIO....then he stopped









Same thing here. Our son was sleeping through the night (medically defined as 5 hours straight) by 2 months. At 3 months he started suddenly sleeping 9-11 hours. At 4 months he went back to waking every two hours and he still wakes often at almost 2.


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## AlicesMama (Nov 23, 2008)

I was a cot-baby, so was my brother. We were both mostly bottle-fed and had dummies. We never slept with our parents, well not until we were 7 and 9 and then we did for some years but that's another story. My brother was left to CIO out at 7 months and then STTN, I apparently never cried, I was in the same room as my brother.

I think if a child never knows the comfort of Mama and breast-feeding and has always slept alone, then they are far more likely to sleep longer stretches with some encouragement from CIO. THat is why Gina Ford is always saying "put the baby down drowsy, do not let the baby fall asleep on the nipple/in your arms" so that that baby is never allowed to do what comes naturally. That is 'modern-parenting' for you.

So I would say yes, most of these babies have had a degree of CIO. But babies are not supposed to sleep alone, think of it from a survival point of view, if a baby just fell asleep anywhere without trouble, instead of being close to Mum or some kind of warmth it could well get eaten, die of cold etc.

You never see puppies or kittens sleeping alone from their mothers. Imagine if they did in the wild, they just fell asleep in a little basket Mommy cat had prepared for them and didn't cry once she went to her 'room'. More than likely a predator, like a fox, would come along and eat them. It's the same for all primates, they never sleep alone from their young, except Western man.

All the babies in the groups I go to have had some form of controlled crying and they all STTN.

For a baby the most comforting thing in the world is being on the breast and being allowed to fall back to sleep. Well that's what DD seems to like anyway! And she lets me know that roughly 7 to 8 times a night! Yes they do wake regularly - again, maybe it's a survival thing to check Mom is still there. I don't know. Presumably you can train this out of a baby as CIO shows.


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## liliaceae (May 31, 2007)

I get the impression that most parents do use CIO. The AAP recommends it, and I would bet that most pediatricians do too.


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## chipper26 (Sep 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *liliaceae* 
I get the impression that most parents do use CIO. The AAP recommends it, and I would bet that most pediatricians do too.

My doc did. My dd has never slept through the night and she's 7 1/2 mos. old. My BF's baby didn't sleep through the night until well after a year. I agree with the pp about some babies not knowing or being weaned VERY early from the comfort of mom's breast or the comfort of falling asleep in loving arms.


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *liliaceae* 
I get the impression that most parents do use CIO. The AAP recommends it, and I would bet that most pediatricians do too.

The AAP recommends it????


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## *Aimee* (Jan 8, 2007)

I'm betting CIO. I'm having the worst time every getting my son to sleep through the night. To the point that it's starting to scare me how little sleep I'm getting. I researched all forms of CIO because, well, frankly, I can't live like this anymore. I seriously can't fathom living like this another few months. I get maybe 4 hours of sleep a night, sometimes 5 and none of that is consecutive.

So anyway, it surprised me HOW many people CIO. Everyone I know, even people who are super crunchy AP parents do it eventually. I've had 3 dr's tell me to do it. All the statistics of stuff I looked up online were crazy. Like 87% of parents do a ferber like method of CIO.

After reading everything about it, and how it probably will work but then your child won't need you anymore for comforting, I couldn't do it. I have moved him to his own bed in our room and I basically stand there and rub his back while sleeping on my feet all night. IT was working great and I got 4 straight hours of sleep! but now he's super sick, back in our bed, and back to not sleeping.

Sorry for the tangent Im really sleepy.


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## kaliyah'smama (Aug 11, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sophieslion* 
medically isnt 'sleeping through the night' 5 hours of consecutive sleep?!

I've recently read it to be 5 hours (author of No-Cry Sleep Solution).


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

I haven't read the other responses.

Quote:

Is this a co-sleeping thing? Is it a breastfeeding thing? Is it not giving solids until later? Or has every single child I've ever babysat or nannied for had to CIO night after night until they learned to just sleep 8 hours?
We coslept (at least part time) with both of our kids until well after they were 1. My oldest didn't sleep through the night until he was 19 months old. And we tried everything, short of cio. He's now almost 7 and sleeps like the dead and is impossible to wake up. My youngest didn't sleep through until we night weaned him around a year. He's now almost 3 and again, sleeps like the dead.

I know kids who sleep really well and kids who don't, who've been bfed, coslept, whatever and there isn't a majority who sleeps through the night. It varies so much from kid to kid.


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## samanthaspagirl (Feb 27, 2009)

Since I'm new here, let me start out by saying that I'm still b/fing DS & I'm a SAHM...DS is SO happy & pleasant ALL day long...I can take him everywhere with me & almost never have to worry about a scene! The TV is never on (except to watch Sesame St) & we play, read, explore & I chase after him all day! He is never neglected, yet his sleep pattern is worse than ever.

I feed DS 1 hr before bed & our routine is at 7:30, bed 8pm...he nurses to sleep & I put him down in his crib...for awhile, he was sleeping till around 4am, but this past month he wakes between 9pm & 12am...I nurse him for comfort, but usually after a 11 or 12am waking, he won't go back down, so I bring him to bed w/ me. Also this past month, he won't nurse to sleep in bed...he scratches at my face, pulls my hair, kicks me or starts screaming...some nights he's wide awake staring at DH & I....I've tried every piece of advice from friends & drs, so since I'm a new mag subscriber, now I'm looking here!!!


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

maybe there is a reason to all of this? (most) babies and young children don't sleep all at once (night) and need several naps during the day.... why? was nighttime always for sleeping and daytime always for working? at what age, if ever, should parents 'help' their kids sttn? would we as adults still sleep like babies if left to sleep when we vneeded/wanted? is this a cultural thing??


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## nikkiethridge (May 6, 2008)

We had to FF, but we cosleep. He started sleeping all night just recently (he's 1) once we started to cut down on the night feeds. Now he doesn't even bother. He did sleep through the night around 3 months, but started night waking around 6 months due to separation anxiety..that's when we started cosleeping.


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## liliaceae (May 31, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LadyCatherine185* 
The AAP recommends it????









Yep. Sad, isn't it? No wonder so many parents are doing it.


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## liliaceae (May 31, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *samanthaspagirl* 
Since I'm new here, let me start out by saying that I'm still b/fing DS & I'm a SAHM...DS is SO happy & pleasant ALL day long...I can take him everywhere with me & almost never have to worry about a scene! The TV is never on (except to watch Sesame St) & we play, read, explore & I chase after him all day! He is never neglected, yet his sleep pattern is worse than ever.

I feed DS 1 hr before bed & our routine is at 7:30, bed 8pm...he nurses to sleep & I put him down in his crib...for awhile, he was sleeping till around 4am, but this past month he wakes between 9pm & 12am...I nurse him for comfort, but usually after a 11 or 12am waking, he won't go back down, so I bring him to bed w/ me. Also this past month, he won't nurse to sleep in bed...he scratches at my face, pulls my hair, kicks me or starts screaming...some nights he's wide awake staring at DH & I....I've tried every piece of advice from friends & drs, so since I'm a new mag subscriber, now I'm looking here!!!

You might want to post this in a new thread in order to get a better response.


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## flower01 (Aug 1, 2007)

I think some form of CIO is the norm. I had no idea when I got pregnant that there was another option. Of course, that's when I found my midwife and started reading Mothering so me and my husband decided to use AP methods and not CIO. But, all of my friends used a form of CIO. I don't knwo if there babies sleep through the night, but there is no question that they let their babies cry. They all thought I was crazy while they raved about their newfound love of Babywise.


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## PaigeC (Nov 25, 2008)

My parents did CIO with me and my sister. I don't think I really cried that much actually and I was a good sleeper but I never expected motherly comforting during the night. I need to point out that I have a great mother she just believed what she was told - that cosleeping would make me a spoiled monster.

When I was 6 years old I started being terrified of sleep. I remember this clearly. I could barely tell time but I knew what the clock looked like at bedtime and I can still feel the dread. I got up repeatedly and woke my parents. They put me back in bed. They even spanked me (once again, it was the 70s my parents are not horrible). When I woke them up again and again despite all this they knew I wasn't being "bad." My mom actually called CPS about it (imagine a time when you could do that?). They sent me to a neurologist and a psychiatrist. No one could find anything wrong with me. It kept getting worse. My dad started sleeping on the floor beside my bed because they were SO afraid of cosleeping. My whole family was breaking down from this.

One morning my mom woke up and realized I hadn't awakened them all night. I wasn't in my bed. I was sleeping peacefully in my younger sisters bed. I stayed there until I was 13 when I weaned on my own.

When I hear talk shows say that a 7 year old is "manipulating" their parents and being brats I want to cry. I can feel the REAL distress of a kid that can't sleep. I NEEDED nighttime comforting. I needed to cosleep. I got that with my sister luckily or I don't know what would have happened.

My question has always been if I had coslept as a baby would I have ever had this late on-set problem? I honestly still have trouble sleeping alone and I'm 33.

CIO might work but at what cost?

Sorry for the ramble just wanted to share my story.


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## bubbamummy (Feb 25, 2009)

wow...I can honestly say that my 1 year old son has never cried for more than 2 minutes before I went to him....in his whole life. We have never, ever done anyform of CIO-not even close and he will sleep from 7-2:30am in his crib, wakes-fusses (he is still in our room) and then he comes into bed with me to co-sleep until 7:30am. The longest he has cried was however long it took me to brush my teeth and pee








I read the 'no cry sleep solution' and it made me cry to see what CIO does to a little ones body and brain...


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## AlicesMama (Nov 23, 2008)

Paige C - it's interesting what you write about your experience as a child. It was similar for us, my parents just followed Dr Spock, it was there in black and white - use CIO.

And I should add, my Mum is the best Mum in the world, truly. We have a wonderful relationship and she has been very supportive of my decision to co-sleep with DD. She just didn't know with us.

We also regressed due to night-time fears, for me I was around 5 years old I became really scared and knew I could not wake my parents. I used to lie in bed sweating from heat and fear, the blankets wrapped right up to my neck so the 'monsters' couldn't reach me.

In the end my brother and I slept with my Mum for years and then slept in the same room together till we were teenagers too.

This kind of regression is really common in older kids who don't co-sleep - ref: Deborah Jackson "Three in a Bed".


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AlicesMama* 
We also regressed due to night-time fears, for me I was around 5 years old I became really scared and knew I could not wake my parents. I used to lie in bed sweating from heat and fear, the blankets wrapped right up to my neck so the 'monsters' couldn't reach me.

I did the same thing! None of us ever coslept, and I never did CIO, but I was night-weaned abruptly at 9 months old (she held me while I cried myself to sleep with no milkies).

My younger brother STTN early on, on his own, but as a young child up until he was 11-12 would sneak into my parents room and get in bed (on my mom's side, my dad would have sent him back to bed) with them.

I would much rather have a sweet tiny baby sleeping with me than a 12 year old!









On another note, my BIL makes all 4 of his kids CIO (ages 5,4,2, 9 mo) and all but the 5 yo have terrible sleeping issues. They even did the go in and spank with the 4 yo at one point. I think now they just let them cry from X time to X time and don't worry about it....


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## Pyrodjm (Jan 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JavaJunkie* 
I never told people(strangers or acquaintances) that my kids weren't sleeping through the night. If anyone asked "Is he/she sleeping through the night?" I'd usually just say yes and move on.

This is a good point. I always tell people that DD is sleeping fine at night when they ask. And she is in my opinion. A baby that sleeps from 11pm until 9am or later every night waking only briefly to nurse 2-3 times a night, without needing anything other than the breast to fall immediately back to sleep IS sleeping extremely well. If they ask follow up questions the person may find out exactly what I mean when I say that DD is a good sleeper. But most don't so I guess they have been assuming that she sleeps all night without eating since she was less than a month old.







:


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## Strong Mama (Feb 7, 2006)

Odd both my children have always sttn..both starting at 3 months sleeping from 7p-6am with no cio. It was just an understood thing..when its dark you sleep when its light you wake. both my babies were big babies at 3months weighing 15 pounds so they didnt eat at night ..they slept in their own rooms with fans on and never had a problem, they slept terrible with us. we tried. but they wanted their own sleep spaces lol. occasionally they would wake when hungry for a small snack or teething or thirsty or bad dreams but they always went right back to sleep within 10 mins of comfort. Mama says:you sleep at night, you wake in the day. Thats the rule in our house lol and i guess they didnt argue it.


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## fruitfulmomma (Jun 8, 2002)

I have never used CIO and have bedshared and bf'ed on demand with all five of my children. They have *all* STTN from 4 weeks on. What this means... dd4 is currently 12 weeks old. She sleeps from around 7 at night till around 7 in the morning with one wake for a change and a meal at sometime between 3-5. During the rest of the night she might fuss for the breast but doesn't wake up - doesn't open her eyes or anything, just moving around looking for me.

Personally, I don't expect more from my children than I do from myself. I wake to use the bathroom, get a drink, find my husband to curl up with, etc... I expect that my children will do the same. But as far as the up for two or three hours at a time or whatever, it has never been an issue for us.

I asked my aunt and mom yesterday, and bedsharing is the norm for my family, and they both said the same thing, although they ff'ed. Maybe it is just a genetic thing.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

People will go to great lengths to make their kids sleep through the night. CIO is very very common. I even knew someone who gave her baby Benedryl every single night to make him sleep. I wouldn't do that. So my dd didn't sleep through the night till she was 2. But now I have a little baby who is already sleeping 5 hour stretches at just over a month of age. So there are some who will do it on their own, but I think it's rare. Ask the parents to give you advice on this - don't tell them about this conversation, just say you've talked to parents whose babies didn't sleep through the night until 3 or whatever, and you're wondering how they kept that from happening. I can guess what you'll hear.


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## Liam's Mum (Jan 9, 2007)

well let's see, my first never slept through the night until he was over 2. for the first couple months he was in a cradle in our room, then a crib in his room. up at least every 3 hours, bf. I was at that time trying to resist co-sleeping because I'd been told it was wrong. he had solids "early" at 5 mos (at that time reco from Dr. was 4-6 mos), it didn't help. at 17 mos I "gave up", put him on a mattress on his floor where I nursed him to sleep, and then in the night he would come to our room and stay there. at about 2.5 he was sleeping better on his own (nursed at night but would fall asleep after), then I night weaned him, which turned into full weaning (probably due to no milk, I was pg). at 4.5 now, he wakes most nights -- he starts his night in his room, DH stays with him until he's asleep, and if he wakes up, he joins us and immediately goes back to sleep.

so no, in our case it had/has little to do with whether we co-sleep or not, or bf or not.

with DS2, he was sleeping 5-7 hour stretches at a month or so old. that didn't last. at 16 mos he is currently up every 2 hours most nights. also bf, also no difference once on solids after 6 mos. I *wanted* to co-sleep with him but he wouldn't actually sleep, and again, it made no difference if he was in our room or not. at the moment, I nurse him to sleep and then put him in his crib, when he wakes I either join him in his room on the mattress there, or he comes into our bed.

I know way more babies and toddlers that woke in the night past 9-10 mos then I know that sleep 8 hours. doesn't matter if bf or not, co-sleeping or not.

so, I think yes, lots do CIO (fortunately most people I know closely do not), or they lie -- as others have said, I stopped telling people or complaining that my 1st wasn't sleeping, so they wouldn't offer advice. so they probably assumed he was STTN. (and yes, my doctor also told me to do CIO at 6 mos, I have no idea if the CPS recommends it, but I ignored her because it seemed wrong to me)


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## Danielle13 (Oct 31, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ihugtrees* 
Is this a co-sleeping thing? Is it a breastfeeding thing? Is it not giving solids until later? Or has every single child I've ever babysat or nannied for had to CIO night after night until they learned to just sleep 8 hours?


I'm probubly going to get bashed for this...

but...

The thing that I think its most related to is not teaching your baby to fall asleep on their own. I know atleast for me, I was so afraid of going outside the boundry of "ap" that I never tried anything except holding/wearing/nursing/bouncing to sleep! As soon as I taught dd to fall asleep on her own (which is 100% possible w/o cio) she started sleeping better! It is true that when they go to sleep with some sort of "prop" when they wake up they need it to fall asleep again.

I think a lot of nightwakings are purely habit. For the most part we "ap" 'ers don't try to help our babies fall back asleep w/o booby. And therefore! *WE* teach our babies to sleep like they do. They do what they know. And when the only thing they know is being nursed back to sleep of course thats all they'll do and do it often.

I know LOTS of babies who aren't CIO'd or scheduled that sttn. Their parents just help them learn other ways to fall asleep w/o nursing ect. And that doesn't make them bad parents, or not "ap" anymore. Teaching your baby to fall asleep alone isn't the worst thing in the world, in fact its not bad at all. I think because lots of people do it by cio'ing so we tend shy away from it (atleast for me) but there are other ways. And they aren't bad









thats all...







:

oh ps I'm not at all saying babies don't need comfort ect. I'm talking about the toddlers that the OP refered to


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## lizw (Apr 16, 2008)

Danielle13;
I know LOTS of babies who aren't CIO'd or scheduled that sttn. Their parents just help them learn other ways to fall asleep w/o nursing ect. And that doesn't make them bad parents said:


> http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
> 
> thats all...
> 
> ...


This is us...both my kids sttn and have never had to CIO. I guess I am lucky!


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Danielle13* 
I'm probubly going to get bashed for this...

but...

The thing that I think its most related to is not teaching your baby to fall asleep on their own. I know atleast for me, I was so afraid of going outside the boundry of "ap" that I never tried anything except holding/wearing/nursing/bouncing to sleep! As soon as I taught dd to fall asleep on her own (which is 100% possible w/o cio) she started sleeping better! It is true that when they go to sleep with some sort of "prop" when they wake up they need it to fall asleep again.

I think a lot of nightwakings are purely habit. For the most part we "ap" 'ers don't try to help our babies fall back asleep w/o booby. And therefore! *WE* teach our babies to sleep like they do. They do what they know. And when the only thing they know is being nursed back to sleep of course thats all they'll do and do it often.

I know LOTS of babies who aren't CIO'd or scheduled that sttn. Their parents just help them learn other ways to fall asleep w/o nursing ect. And that doesn't make them bad parents, or not "ap" anymore. Teaching your baby to fall asleep alone isn't the worst thing in the world, in fact its not bad at all. I think because lots of people do it by cio'ing so we tend shy away from it (atleast for me) but there are other ways. And they aren't bad









thats all...







:

oh ps I'm not at all saying babies don't need comfort ect. I'm talking about the toddlers that the OP refered to










there are some babies that can be easily "taught" to sttn early I'm sure. But there are also some that can. not. sleep. on. their. own. no matter how hard you try to 'teach' them. i think a lot of sttn has to do with the baby's temperment and not with how we parent.


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## Breeder (May 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pyrodjm* 
This is a good point. I always tell people that DD is sleeping fine at night when they ask. And she is in my opinion. A baby that sleeps from 11pm until 9am or later every night waking only briefly to nurse 2-3 times a night, without needing anything other than the breast to fall immediately back to sleep IS sleeping extremely well. If they ask follow up questions the person may find out exactly what I mean when I say that DD is a good sleeper. But most don't so I guess they have been assuming that she sleeps all night without eating since she was less than a month old.







:

Me too.


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## LittleMonkey (Apr 11, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LadyCatherine185* 
there are some babies that can be easily "taught" to sttn early I'm sure. But there are also some that can. not. sleep. on. their. own. no matter how hard you try to 'teach' them. i think a lot of sttn has to do with the baby's temperment and not with how we parent.

ITA. I'm trying hard to not be offended by the tone of this thread. Really hard.

Many parents have a little one that resists sleep and/or wakes frequently, despite their best efforts to provide falling asleep/staying asleep alternatives. I appreciate it when others at least acknowledge that if their toddlers are sleeping well they may be:
1) lucky!
2) lucky!!
3) did I mention LUCKY!!!!!!!!!!!

That is all.


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## Cujobunny (Aug 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ihugtrees* 
but IRL, I've never met anyone who's child didn't sleep 8 hours a night by the time they were 8 or 10 months old...most were sleeping through the night by 5 or 6 months.

They're lying


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## Michelle Renee (Dec 31, 2005)

DD #1 slept through the night by 7 weeks old. She woke up to eat once and went back down. Now at nearly 3, she wakes up 3-4 times a month for about 5 minutes if she has bad dreams. DH goes in her room, offers her a drink of water, and sits with her. If she is really upset, he rocks her or sings to her. She knows she can be heard on the monitor, so she calls for one of us.
She hasnt every cried it out as a baby and as a defiant toddler she has complained for 20 minutes 1 or 2 times when she was over tired. She coslept until she was 22 months old and was bottle fed. In thinking about it, she did sleep much better when I moved her out of our room. Starting at about 16 months -she was waking up periodically in the night to play with me or for a bottle. Only when I was home. I am away from time to time at night and she never woke up when I wasn't home. When she moved into her own room (literally across hall not far at all) she slept through the night consistently.

DD#2 also sleeps through the night. If is she is having a bad night -she must sleep ON me. She likes to make a pool of snot and drool on my boobs and sleep in her self created wet spot. She wakes up once in the night to eat. Also bottle fed. Never ever cried it out. Occasionally fusses it out -her choice. Put her in bed, she likes to scream for about 60 seconds (yep I timed it) and then she pops her thumb in her mouth and goes out. When she does the fuss it out, if you try to soothe her during that time -she gets MORE upset. But has never cried it out.

I dont think its a boob thing. My boobs dont work so we have donor milk in bottles. So the breastmilk is just as quickly digested whether it is from the tap or fresh frozen.

My kids are "scheduled" to some degree because I WOHM. I have really solid routines that are 95% child led that work well for my kids and for our family. By that I mean, Violet likes to watch 20 minutes of tv, have a snack, brush her teeth and have me sing 2 songs to her before bed. I do all of the things she likes/needs but I do it at a time that I need to (for us it starts at 7:45 which gets her to bed around 8:30).

Ophie, the baby, likes to play until the last second and have her bottle a certain way. I do all of the things she likes/needs but also on a time frame that works for everyone.

The routines dont change unless there is a reason. I think the structure we have in place is part of the reason my girls are good sleepers. We started with routines from day one.

Our family isnt overly crunchy or super AP - but we dont cry it out.

Our girls never had baby cereal. We started solids post 6 months (mostly to stretch donor milk).

I dont know. I know I run into more moms than not that their babies dont sleep well. I never know why and I always feel guilty


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## Danielle13 (Oct 31, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LittleMonkey* 
ITA. I'm trying hard to not be offended by the tone of this thread. Really hard.

Many parents have a little one that resists sleep and/or wakes frequently, despite their best efforts to provide falling asleep/staying asleep alternatives. I appreciate it when others at least acknowledge that if their toddlers are sleeping well they may be:
1) lucky!
2) lucky!!
3) did I mention LUCKY!!!!!!!!!!!

That is all.

I was speaking from my experience only







DD used to wake between 15 and 75x a night (maybe 100 ...no exageration). I started thinking that something was wrong with her...It turned out that *I* taught her to sleep that way, and as soon as I changed what I was doing, things looked up...But she still wakes 4-10x a night. I've met many moms who are like me, and were afraid to help their children learn to fall asleep on their own because they were AP and didn't want to be "kicked out of the club" so to speak.

anyways, I think that is a big reason lots of kids wake so frequently. Because they need what put them to sleep to put them back to sleep. And I didn't say I taught her to sttn, I taught her to fall asleep w/o nursing/rocking. Basically laying down by herself.







its all jmo though.


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Danielle13* 
I was speaking from my experience only







DD used to wake between 15 and 75x a night (maybe 100 ...no exageration). I started thinking that something was wrong with her...It turned out that *I* taught her to sleep that way, and as soon as I changed what I was doing, things looked up...But she still wakes 4-10x a night. I've met many moms who are like me, and were afraid to help their children learn to fall asleep on their own because they were AP and didn't want to be "kicked out of the club" so to speak.

anyways, I think that is a big reason lots of kids wake so frequently. Because they need what put them to sleep to put them back to sleep. And I didn't say I taught her to sttn, I taught her to fall asleep w/o nursing/rocking. Basically laying down by herself.







its all jmo though.


But she is still waking up. That is great she can get herself back to sleep, but if DS wakes up, I wake up, no matter how he gets back to sleep. So even if I didn't nurse him back to sleep I'd still be awake so why would I want to deprive him of the ultimate comfort if he is still going to wake just as much?


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## Ks Mama (Aug 22, 2006)

>>but IRL, I've never met anyone who's child didn't sleep 8 hours a night by the time they were 8 or 10 months old...most were sleeping through the night by 5 or 6 months.<<

The "IRL" statements really irk me.
So... no one YOU'VE ever met "in real life" has babies who don't sleep through the night. What does that mean to the larger picture? I didn't sleep through the night. And my mother bottle fed me after 6 months, I slept in a crib, and she used CIO (thanks Dr. Spock). None of my MIL's 4 children slept through the night as infants, and she breastfed & coslept. I've met several people in real life whose children don't sleep through the night: Breastfed & bottlefed, crib sleepers or cosleepers. Cry it outers & not.

Does that mean that one of us is being less truthful? Or that those posting on this board are less than truthful? OR could it POSSIBLY be that those you've met "in real life" haven't been entirely truthful with you when asked if their child sleeps through the night (a question which I'd never ask a person IRL, because it isn't my business)?

Telling someone that you've never heard of something doesn't make it less true, and certainly isn't supportive of the women who are coming here looking for help, support, understanding, and ideas.

As for your questions... who knows. But what does it matter? ALL CHILDREN SLEEP DIFFERENTLY. And it isn't anyones' business other than their parents' why. There's no one reason why a child sleeps or doesn't sleep. No two children act exactly alike during the day. Why would they during the night?

And WHY is it considered a bad thing for a child NOT to sleep through the night, and a GOOD thing if they do? Why is it assumed that a baby who can't sleep like an adult has something WRONG with them? Couldn't it possibly be that the ADULTS have the problem - a problem with inappropriate expectations for an infant?


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## MelW (Jan 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Danielle13* 
I was speaking from my experience only







DD used to wake between 15 and 75x a night (maybe 100 ...no exageration). I started thinking that something was wrong with her...It turned out that *I* taught her to sleep that way, and as soon as I changed what I was doing, things looked up...But she still wakes 4-10x a night. I've met many moms who are like me, and were afraid to help their children learn to fall asleep on their own because they were AP and didn't want to be "kicked out of the club" so to speak.

anyways, I think that is a big reason lots of kids wake so frequently. Because they need what put them to sleep to put them back to sleep. And I didn't say I taught her to sttn, I taught her to fall asleep w/o nursing/rocking. Basically laying down by herself.







its all jmo though.

Some babies can be taught this much easier than others. With my daughter I tried from the beginning to have a routine and to put her down drowsy but not asleep. No go. Multiple other ways of trying to teach her *never* worked. Since crying wasn't an option, she needed to parented (rocked/nursed) to sleep until she was two. When she was ready, she learned. Before that it would have been a lot of crying (or not sleeping).

I'm really glad that it worked for you to teach your baby to put her self to sleep, but hope that you realize that temperament plays a big role in this. Some babies learn to self-soothe at a very young age, and some don't- no matter how much or how well we try to teach them


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## ihugtrees (Oct 16, 2008)

First of all, I knew that their children slept through the night because I frequently babysat for various families into the night/early morning, or overnight. Also, I've had other parents volunteer this information without any prompting, when talking about their nap schedules for the day and such especially (IE, "she doesn't nap during the day because she sleeps 7 hours straight at night" etc.)

As for the 'in real life' statement...I just meant that I had never heard of a child not sleeping through the night until I came on this site. I posted because I am trying to gather information for my own parenting. I am expecting my first child, and to be honest, the prospect of not getting more than a few hours sleep straight for the next two years is a bit scary to me. If that is what I have to do to never cry it out, then that's what I have to do, but I want to be prepared. I am just trying to find out what I want to do with my own child. I wasn't implying that I don't believe someone. I just am trying to figure out what we, as attachment parents, do differently then the parents I know. I am not trying to be judgmental or condemning. I am simply asking a question, because I want to know how to be a good parent without burning myself out. I am asking because all of you have way more experience being a mom than I do, and because the people I do know in real life don't always make decisions that I agree with when it comes to parenting, so just because they are doing something a certain way, doesn't mean that's the way I want to do it.

I also find it hard to believe that every parent who's children slept through the night let them cry it out, because most parents I know can't stand to hear their babies cry...even the ones who use babywise and lots of other mainstream parenting methods. I have known very few parents who would allow their child to cry for more than 5 or 10 minutes without doing something. Mainstream doesn't always mean heartless.

I often read this posted on MDC: that something someone says 'isnt supportive' to this group or that group. Well, I'm sorry if my post, asking a question for my own parenting methods, 'isnt supportive.' I am *one of the women who are coming here looking for help, support, understanding, and ideas, too*, and your post wasn't supportive to me either.


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## Ceinwen (Jul 1, 2004)

I've posted numerous times about out sleep struggles with my fourteen month old dd. To add to the anecdotal data she (unfortunately) is not breastfed, and does not co-sleep.

She is still up and awake three or four times a night - crying and needing comfort. We tried co-sleeping, and her rate of waking was increased.

Having said all that, my six year old sleeps with me and has since she was a toddler. So, who knows what really works? My six year old dd also STTN (like twelve hours at a go) by age six weeks... she too wasn't breastfed.

I personally don't know a lot of people who CIO. The reason I know for sure, is because I have too many friends calling me all hours of the night so we can cry together over our non-sleeping babies.


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## ihugtrees (Oct 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Danielle13* 
I'm probubly going to get bashed for this...

but...

The thing that I think its most related to is not teaching your baby to fall asleep on their own. I know atleast for me, I was so afraid of going outside the boundry of "ap" that I never tried anything except holding/wearing/nursing/bouncing to sleep! As soon as I taught dd to fall asleep on her own (which is 100% possible w/o cio) she started sleeping better! It is true that when they go to sleep with some sort of "prop" when they wake up they need it to fall asleep again.

I think a lot of nightwakings are purely habit. For the most part we "ap" 'ers don't try to help our babies fall back asleep w/o booby. And therefore! *WE* teach our babies to sleep like they do. They do what they know. And when the only thing they know is being nursed back to sleep of course thats all they'll do and do it often.

I know LOTS of babies who aren't CIO'd or scheduled that sttn. Their parents just help them learn other ways to fall asleep w/o nursing ect. And that doesn't make them bad parents, or not "ap" anymore. Teaching your baby to fall asleep alone isn't the worst thing in the world, in fact its not bad at all. I think because lots of people do it by cio'ing so we tend shy away from it (atleast for me) but there are other ways. And they aren't bad









thats all...







:

oh ps I'm not at all saying babies don't need comfort ect. I'm talking about the toddlers that the OP refered to









Yeah, THIS. This is what I was looking for. Is it horrible to not nurse/rock/bounce/hold your baby until they fall asleep? Again, most of the children I babysat were able to go down on their own, sleep reasonable amounts of time, etc. There were only one or two that needed to be rocked or patted to sleep. I was wondering if those parents made them CIO as tiny babies to make them learn to sleep on their own or not? If not, how do you put your baby down to sleep? Is it possible to do this while breastfeeding/cosleeping?


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## lizw (Apr 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ihugtrees* 
Yeah, THIS. This is what I was looking for. Is it horrible to not nurse/rock/bounce/hold your baby until they fall asleep? Again, most of the children I babysat were able to go down on their own, sleep reasonable amounts of time, etc. There were only one or two that needed to be rocked or patted to sleep. I was wondering if those parents made them CIO as tiny babies to make them learn to sleep on their own or not? If not, how do you put your baby down to sleep? Is it possible to do this while breastfeeding/cosleeping?

Yes it is possible...but a lot of it depends on the temperment of your baby. I am sorry you are not feeling the support you are looking for. I can understand why you would wonder if the frequent wakings were b/c of habit...in some cases it may be but in some cases it is just that childs temperment. It is hard to know as parents what is the right thing to do but go with your gut...you will know your baby better than anyone. And what works for your first baby may not work for your next. But trust me not everyone is lying when they say their infants sttn. We coslept and breastfed and my kids were sttn at 3 months old...starting with 9-10 hour stretches and eventually going 12-13 hours by 5 months old....both of them...with no CIO or any form of it. So it is possible...but i did get to the point where I laid them down drowsy instead of asleep so that may have helped. Good luck with whatever you decide!


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## liliaceae (May 31, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ks Mama* 
>>but IRL, I've never met anyone who's child didn't sleep 8 hours a night by the time they were 8 or 10 months old...most were sleeping through the night by 5 or 6 months.<<

The "IRL" statements really irk me.
So... no one YOU'VE ever met "in real life" has babies who don't sleep through the night. What does that mean to the larger picture? I didn't sleep through the night. And my mother bottle fed me after 6 months, I slept in a crib, and she used CIO (thanks Dr. Spock). None of my MIL's 4 children slept through the night as infants, and she breastfed & coslept. I've met several people in real life whose children don't sleep through the night: Breastfed & bottlefed, crib sleepers or cosleepers. Cry it outers & not.

Does that mean that one of us is being less truthful? Or that those posting on this board are less than truthful? OR could it POSSIBLY be that those you've met "in real life" haven't been entirely truthful with you when asked if their child sleeps through the night (a question which I'd never ask a person IRL, because it isn't my business)?

Telling someone that you've never heard of something doesn't make it less true, and certainly isn't supportive of the women who are coming here looking for help, support, understanding, and ideas.

As for your questions... who knows. But what does it matter? ALL CHILDREN SLEEP DIFFERENTLY. And it isn't anyones' business other than their parents' why. There's no one reason why a child sleeps or doesn't sleep. No two children act exactly alike during the day. Why would they during the night?

And WHY is it considered a bad thing for a child NOT to sleep through the night, and a GOOD thing if they do? Why is it assumed that a baby who can't sleep like an adult has something WRONG with them? Couldn't it possibly be that the ADULTS have the problem - a problem with inappropriate expectations for an infant?

I really don't understand the hostility directed at the OP here. She was just asking a simple question. The mainstream parents she knows say their babies sleep through the night; the posters on MDC frequently say their babies don't. She wanted to understand why.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ihugtrees* 
I also find it hard to believe that every parent who's children slept through the night let them cry it out, because most parents I know can't stand to hear their babies cry...even the ones who use babywise and lots of other mainstream parenting methods. I have known very few parents who would allow their child to cry for more than 5 or 10 minutes without doing something. Mainstream doesn't always mean heartless.

CIO is an integral component of babywise, as far as I know. And allowing your child to cry for even 5 minutes without comforting them is CIO, and still causes psychological harm to the baby.


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## Mommy2Haley (Oct 25, 2007)

Many MDC moms deal with nightwakings and MANY MORE do not!! The former are more vocal and seem more prevalent.


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## Mom2Ian (Feb 7, 2008)

I'm sorry also that you are not feeling supported here...









My opinion is that it really depends on the baby - my son initially was very colicky and slept VERY LITTLE for the first few months, and then when that disappeared STTN almost right away. I never did CIO and have always been very responsive to his needs day or night. That said, he has always slept better (and longer) in a crib in the attached room rather than cosleeping or bedsharing (and because he had such trouble sleeping b/c of the colic, I tried everything, believe me...lol). I was only able to breastfeed for 6 weeks due to low supply (that just finally STOPPED despite every effort and following every recommendation) so my situation is different than some others and my son keeps an empty bottle in the crib with him and "nurses on demand" from his bottle (he never took to pacifiers, but likes the empty bottle). For a while, I noticed he was waking up, but would soothe himself back to sleep in the few seconds it took me to get to him. This started happening more and more and now he STTN unless he is teething or gets cold. I think babies learn to self-soothe at different rates and it depends on a lot of things, not least of which is the baby









I just went with my gut and with what the circumstances were at the time and did the best I felt I could, which is all any of us can do. That said, my expectations were that I ~expected~ to not sleep a lot, be woken up a lot, and went into this knowing that I may have a high needs baby and that I will just do what I have to do and never let him CIO. I never really had STTN as an expectation, even now that he is a year old, it just happened that way for us.

I hope the different opinions and information help you. I say just go with your mama gut and listen with empathy to the cues from your baby and you'll be fine!


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## Mom2Ian (Feb 7, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mommy2Haley* 
Many MDC moms deal with nightwakings and MANY MORE do not!! The former are more vocal and seem more prevalent.









:


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## LittleMonkey (Apr 11, 2008)

I have been thinking about this and wondering why it bothered me... especially as everyone has been quite open-minded and honest in their answers. I think that the original question that was posted had the implication that the way I parent is the cause of my child's sleep pattern. And in particular, the last sentence "has every single child I've ever babysat or nannied for had to CIO night after night until they learned to just sleep 8 hours?" seemed to rub me wrong. I really like KsMama's and MelW's replies, that all children sleep differently and temperament plays a large role in sleep.

My DH and I came to attachment parenting quite accidentally. We responded to our son's needs, day and night, and ignored advice that didn't feel right to us. Turns out, the way we parent is called AP! It was nice to find a place (here!) where many others feel similarly about parenting. I hope that the OP feels welcome and supported here as well, and apologize if I came across as unsupportive.

I think you are wise to be thinking of these things before the little one is here. Remember to listen to your heart, and your baby, and you'll be a great Mommy







(whether or not your little one sttn







)


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## Nova0929 (Jan 13, 2009)

This is a really interesting thread, and I logged on tonight with these very thoughts in mind of sstn and cio. Like OP, I also wondered about all the families I know whose babies sleep through the night, whereas all the AP babies I know awaken frequently through age 2 or so. My son wakes every 1-2 hours all night long -- he's 5 months now, and has been doing this for a month. Previously he slept for 3 hour stretches which I thought was fine, but now I'm just really really exhausted. I think he's teething now, so I can understand that he needs more comfort right now. Anyway, some of the mamas in the park have confessed to cio, and one actually gave me her book called The SleepEasy Solution, which recommends cio in 5 minute increments. Aack. I'm also reading Healthy Sleep Habits Healthy Child, but I haven't gotten very far. What I'm learning from the latter book, though, is SO helpful in terms of getting DS to sleep without fussing -- to put him down when he's drowsy, not overtired and crying. He falls asleep while nursing, but now nap and bedtimes are so much more pleasant because he's not crying and I'm attending more to his drowsy cues. So that part of the book was really helpful. I don't like The SleepEasy Solution but it also couches everything in terms of "sleep learning" or teaching your baby to sleep well. Though I'm not interested in cio, I am interested in the post by Danielle (I think) who said that she taught her baby to sleep on his/her own. What were those methods? I would like to learn more about this so that nap and bed times aren't peppered throughout with wakings and nursing back to sleep. The No Cry Sleep Solution isn't helping with us, though I must say that the "Pantley Pull-Off" does make nighttime nursings so-o-o much shorter and more peaceful.

Also, I wish I had offered my baby a repertoire of ways to fall asleep from early on rather than just nursing -- now, not even my husband or my mother or sister can put DS to sleep, and my DH in particular is really sad about that. DS can nap while in the sling but he wakes up when transitioning to bed. DH would just love to be able to put DS to sleep in our bed. I would love for DS to be able to self-soothe and put himself to sleep at least a few times during the night instead of waking me every hour to nurse him back to sleep. Anyway, these are just some sleepy-time thoughts for me before I head back to sleep with DS. And without DH, unfortunately, who sleeps in another room because of all the night wakings.


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## Lizafava (Nov 28, 2004)

I think maybe on all accounts. But, even among babies who do not sleep through the night, there is a world off difference in how it can impact your life. My first still wakes up and he is 3 and a half. When he was a baby he woke up anywhere from 3 to 15 times a night. And every time, he cried and screamed and had to be nursed and parented *extensively* back to sleep.

I currently have an 8mo who goes through the rounds of waking up once or twice after I come to bed and then some nights much more often. But I can count on one hand the number of times I have woken up sleep deprived on his account. One hand. I think most babies are like this - they quietly nurse back to sleep and you wake up the next morning wondering how many times he woke up because you honestly don't know. If he was my first and I could just stay in bed with him in the morning, I would have more sleep and rest thatn I would know what to do with!

I guess my point is, don't fear a baby who doesn't STTN. The goal is enough rest, and you can get that with a baby who does not STTN. If you end up with a baby like my first, well, I don't think it would matter what you tried, short of CIO. You'd be sleep deprived. But most babies aren't like that. You hear more from the parents of really awful sleepers on this forum - I remember posting and reading here in desperation a couple years ago - but I think there is a silent majority of parents who get along okay with babes who don't sttn.


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ihugtrees* 
I posted because I am trying to gather information for my own parenting. I am expecting my first child, and to be honest, the prospect of not getting more than a few hours sleep straight for the next two years is a bit scary to me.
I also find it hard to believe that every parent who's children slept through the night let them cry it out, because most parents I know can't stand to hear their babies cry...even the ones who use babywise and lots of other mainstream parenting methods. I have known very few parents who would allow their child to cry for more than 5 or 10 minutes without doing something. Mainstream doesn't always mean heartless.

it is VERY scary to think about no sleep for the next 2 years. but i promise, you will find a way to make it, and taking it one night at a time really helps you not get overwhelmed.

babywise is an extreme advocate of cio. and no parent likes to hear their
LO cry, but the mainstream culture has led them to believe they are doing whats best for their babe. and 5 minutes is a VERY long time for a baby to cry alone. even 1 or 2 minutes is.

i think some people misinterpreted the tone of your original post (me included







) and I'm sorry you didn't feel support. we are just so used to defending our babes who are 'terrible' sleepers by the mainstream point of view, that we are usually on the defensive about it automaticaly.


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## sapientia (Apr 22, 2007)

I'm 38 and I still don't sleep through the night. Seriously. I never have-before children, after children-I just don't sleep for long stretches. I'm not wired that way.
I have five children, we co slept with all of them and currently my soon to be 1yo is up throughout the night nursing-he sleeps next to me. when he is up, I am up, I just encourage him to nurse and I don't play with him and he generally settles right down. I think of it as just part of being a mom. He goes to sleep around 8 pm and that's when I go to sleep-it's our system and it works for us. Yes, I get cranky tired sometimes, but I know if won't last forever.
All five kids had different sleep personalities-I did my best to adapt. I don't take their own internal schedules personally.
(no judgment implied)


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## chipper26 (Sep 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ihugtrees* 
Yeah, THIS. This is what I was looking for. Is it horrible to not nurse/rock/bounce/hold your baby until they fall asleep? Again, most of the children I babysat were able to go down on their own, sleep reasonable amounts of time, etc. There were only one or two that needed to be rocked or patted to sleep. I was wondering if those parents made them CIO as tiny babies to make them learn to sleep on their own or not? If not, how do you put your baby down to sleep? Is it possible to do this while breastfeeding/cosleeping?

You just won't know until you get to know your baby. There are a lot of interesting ideas in this thread. First of all, I think temperament has sooo much to do with it. Some babies sleep easier and respond easier to certain techniques. Some babies are less attached to the boobie (not mine! lol) I can't imagine my daughter ever just going to sleep on her own. She's been high needs in the sleep area since day 1.

Yes, I think most people do let there babies cio. It doesn't mean they sttn, but they probably do wake MUCH LESS frequently. I read somewhere recently that 87% of parents use some form of cio. With most docs telling them to do this, it's no wonder. My brother did it with his ds who is not a much "better" sleeper than my dd. My doctor said "It won't hurt her to cry for 10-15 minutes."

And yes, I do think we condition our babies to nurse more than they "need" because of comfort and easy access. Often you are taking the path of least resistance, plus many mamas here believe strongly in doing what comes naturally...nursing to sleep and co-sleeping feel natural.

I'm rambling, but the bottom line is that you will find your way and you will take it one night at a time. It will be hard, but you may have it easier than some and be blessed with a "good" sleeper. Even if your baby is very high needs, you'll do fine.

Also, I think of it like this: If I were my baby, how would I want to be put asleep? Would I love to be held and nursed in my mother's arms, feeling safe, secure and comforted?


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## megan sacha (Oct 24, 2005)

I agree with others that although you're wise to think about this now and to start the mental adjustment of becoming a parent, you really won't be able to find a "solution" or plan for yourself and your baby now. You really do have to wait to meet your baby and then take it one day at a time. Many of us do things differently than we thought we would before having children, or differently than we did when our children were younger. You'll know what's right at the time...just trust your gut. There is no one-size-fits-all "sleep maker". And, you WILL survive and be stronger for it. You also will be tired. Being a parent is tiring, even if your kid does sleep well. Oh and no matter how bad of a sleeper they potentially are...they will improve over time without any intervention on you part.


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## KimPM (Nov 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Aimee** 
So anyway, it surprised me HOW many people CIO. Everyone I know, even people who are super crunchy AP parents do it eventually. I've had 3 dr's tell me to do it. All the statistics of stuff I looked up online were crazy. Like 87% of parents do a ferber like method of CIO.

I was just where you are now....4-5 hours of non-consecutive sleep a night. For months. But DS finally did eventually sleep thru. We NEVER used CIO. He always coslept with at least one of us. It got ever so slowly better from about 18 months on. And around 27-28 months he finally night weaned and started STTN about the same time. He had severe feeding issues and was largely exclusively breastfed until about 24 months. It wasn't till he could take in enough solids to stop night nursing and could STTN. I realize this is not typical though, so don't let it scare you. They will eventually sleep thru, without CIO.


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## ILovePie (Aug 1, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ihugtrees* 
Yeah, THIS. This is what I was looking for. Is it horrible to not nurse/rock/bounce/hold your baby until they fall asleep? Again, most of the children I babysat were able to go down on their own, sleep reasonable amounts of time, etc. There were only one or two that needed to be rocked or patted to sleep. I was wondering if those parents made them CIO as tiny babies to make them learn to sleep on their own or not? If not, how do you put your baby down to sleep? Is it possible to do this while breastfeeding/cosleeping?

I am still catching up on all the replies, but wanted to point out that babies and toddlers are known to behave very differently for sitters than for parents - heck, very differently for fathers than for mothers....especially if the mother is completely out of sight, earshot, and smelling range (apparently babies can smell their mother's milk from really far away...).

I haven't gotten the nerve to try it with my crappy sleeper, but I keep hearing from friends who also have/had crappy sleepers that their babies slept longer stretches for sitters.

ETA: My son actually was a wonderful sleeper from pretty much birth until he was about 5 months old. Something no one ever told me before I had a baby: milestones realllly screw with their sleep. Mine hit milestones, got teeth (6 at once at one point), and illnesses back to back for the last 6 months. I'm reallllllly tired. And my son is 11 months old and practically running. He climbs, he can get out of bed and walk to the door (we just found this out tonight...).

In any case, my point is that sometimes it's also a combination of circumstances and temperament that results in the difficult sleep pattern. Even Ferber and other sleep training methods tell you not to do anything when there's a reason for the night wakings. I had a baby crawling in his sleep and banging his head into a wall. And a baby getting 6 teeth is NOT a sound you'll listen to for more than 30 seconds.

Really, once you have your own baby, you'll find that you have a physical - almost animal - response to them crying. You will do anything in your power to make the crying stop. For me, in those first couple months, I informed DH that I was not in my right mind if the baby was crying. He cried in his carseat every time he was in it, and I had to stop driving further than 10 minutes....and even in that time I was known to pull over and get DS out of the carseat...

I'm tired and rambling, but my point is really echoing that of a previous reply - you will know your baby better than anyone and, if you really listen to your gut (which is remarkable in translating the cries of your baby), you'll know how to handle all of this.


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## KimPM (Nov 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ihugtrees* 
I've been reading on this board for awhile now, and I keep seeing post after post about people with children who are 12, 14, 18 months old and who wake up several times a night to nurse. I hope I don't come across as rude or mean, because I don't mean it that way at all...but IRL, I've never met anyone who's child didn't sleep 8 hours a night by the time they were 8 or 10 months old...most were sleeping through the night by 5 or 6 months. And I've met a LOT of children, having been babysitting for 12 years and nannying for 4 years.

Is this a co-sleeping thing? Is it a breastfeeding thing? Is it not giving solids until later? Or has every single child I've ever babysat or nannied for had to CIO night after night until they learned to just sleep 8 hours?

Keep in mind that those who frequent this board are often having problems with their child's sleep. That's likely the reason most people are posting on this board. Those whose children sleep through the night probably don't visit this board. I'm sure there are children who have never been CIO'd who slept reasonably well from early on.


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## KimPM (Nov 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ihugtrees* 
Or has every single child I've ever babysat or nannied for had to CIO night after night until they learned to just sleep 8 hours?

And CIO doesn't really teach babies to sleep. It just teaches them that nobody is coming to help them.







Whether they are actually sleeping when they are by themselves for that long is often unknown. The parents will often presume they are sleeping all night, when actually they may not be. They may have just stopped calling out because they have learned that nobody is available for them.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KimPM* 
And CIO doesn't really teach babies to sleep. It just teaches them that nobody is coming to help them.







Whether they are actually sleeping when they are by themselves for that long is often unknown. The parents will often presume they are sleeping all night, when actually they may not be. They may have just stopped calling out because they have learned that nobody is available for them.

That is a very sad thought, and it had never occurred to me.


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## megan sacha (Oct 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
That is a very sad thought, and it had never occurred to me.









And it is absolutely true.


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## wetcement101 (Dec 2, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *samanthaspagirl* 
Since I'm new here, let me start out by saying that I'm still b/fing DS & I'm a SAHM...DS is SO happy & pleasant ALL day long...I can take him everywhere with me & almost never have to worry about a scene! The TV is never on (except to watch Sesame St) & we play, read, explore & I chase after him all day! He is never neglected, yet his sleep pattern is worse than ever.

I feed DS 1 hr before bed & our routine is at 7:30, bed 8pm...he nurses to sleep & I put him down in his crib...for awhile, he was sleeping till around 4am, but this past month he wakes between 9pm & 12am...I nurse him for comfort, but usually after a 11 or 12am waking, he won't go back down, so I bring him to bed w/ me. Also this past month, he won't nurse to sleep in bed...he scratches at my face, pulls my hair, kicks me or starts screaming...some nights he's wide awake staring at DH & I....I've tried every piece of advice from friends & drs, so since I'm a new mag subscriber, now I'm looking here!!!

I'm in the same boat with a 14 mo old. She has slept up to 7 hours, but now if she sleeps 3 I start sweating, thinking she's dead...
I mentioned it to DD's very pro-BFing, AP ped last week. He hates CIO and recommended what worked for his family when their DD was around this age. (They didn't co-sleep). When baby woke to cuddle with mom, dad went in. Baby was mad and cried for a few hours in dad's arms. Then woke up again and cried in dad's arms for shorter periods. The next night babe slept all night, because she knew she would keep getting stuck with dad. He said I shouldn't nurse her until the sun is up.
Once I convince DH to sacrifice his weekend I'll post our results...


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## echoecho1528 (Jul 29, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LadyCatherine185* 
there are some babies that can be easily "taught" to sttn early I'm sure. But there are also some that can. not. sleep. on. their. own. no matter how hard you try to 'teach' them. i think a lot of sttn has to do with the baby's temperament and not with how we parent.

Amen to that!


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## MsZelda (Jan 17, 2009)

Great posts, mamas.
Thank you for sharing your ideas and experiences - I think the issues in this thread are at the heart of about 90% of the threads on this topic. Even the most committed AP has moments of self-doubt when people they respect praise the wonders of CIO ... this thread is a good reminder of the normalcy of that self-doubt ... and the importance of nighttime parenting.
Thanks so much.


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