# I just can't do this anymore- UPDATE!! #44



## penstamon (Nov 6, 2008)

It is 6:30a here and I have been up since 12:58a. My eyes are so red and puffy from crying and sleep deprivation and I just can't cope anymore. DH is turning into a monster at night from lack of sleep- he blames me, yells at me, etc. DS is up every 20-45 minutes. It takes 15-30 minutes to get him back to sleep and then he's up again. and again. and again. He's been like this since he was 2 months old- he's now 5 months. Most mornings he's wide awake around 4:30 and doesn't go back to sleep until 5:30 or 6. We co-sleep, ebf on demand, I'm a sahm, he's growing well, happy during the day, etc. He is a terrible napper though- everything wakes him up. Naps last 20-45 minutes. We've tried a side-carred co-sleeper, teething tablets, colic calm, tylenol, white noise, being "ready" right before he wakes.

He's sitting on my shoulder fighting sleep now and pulling my hair out. I just can't cope. I need sleep. I can't remember the last time I has any real sleep. I know this isn't "normal", so please don't just tell me that. I can't take being told it's teething, it's a growth spurt, it's milestones, etc. It's just not.

We have no family here and are spending the holidays here because we just can't travel like this. We have no friends that can help out- most don't have kids.

Please, help. Anything? I can't do this anymore.


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

Mama. I have so been there. I'm sorry you are going through this, it is a rough rough spot.

Can you have a friend or family member come watch your DS for you while you take a nap for a few hours?

Have you taken your DS to see a ped? Have you ruled out reflux or food allergies? I would start there.


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## texaspeach (Jun 19, 2005)




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## MamieCole (Jun 1, 2007)

nak

But I just couldn't read and not respond.

I've Soooo been there, done that. It sucks. DS1 was just like that. I won't tell you how long it took for him to outgrow it. Just know that he did eventually start sleeping. I basically just white knuckled my way through it...and we survived. The one thing we didn't try that I wish we had was craniosacral (sp?) therapy. Lots of mamas say it was a miracle worker for their LOs. It might be worth a shot if you are at the end of your rope.

Hang in there...it will get better.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Have you investigated allergies? Dairy is the usual first choice to eliminate.

good luck!

-Angela


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## sehbub (Mar 15, 2006)

I'm so sorry.







I remember issues like this with DD3 and it's one of my biggest fears with the new baby.









I also recommend checking out food allergies as a culprit. I ended up going on a full elimination diet with DS when he started showing similar signs as DD3 and it helped tremendously. He was like a different baby.

Have you also tried swaddling him really really tight? A swing? Music?

I'm so so sorry. I wish you had someone close to come relieve you for a nap! Motherhood can be so very difficult. It really does take a village.


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## 2cutiekitties (Dec 3, 2006)

My son was like that until I let him sleep on his belly, he was three months. Changed everything! Of course, I laid there and stared at him I was so scared of something happening to him, but DH and DS slept!


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## penstamon (Nov 6, 2008)

Thanks everyone! This is the next best thing to a real shoulder to cry on. I just feel like I am doing everything wrong. In the past five hours, DS has taken 3 naps so I know he is just exhausted. You have all made some great suggestions- I have a call into the ped (but we were there 2 weeks ago and they said "normal"), and I love the idea of craniosacral therapy. Our insurance doesn't pay but at this point I'd rather be broke and healthy than save money and wither away from sleep deprivation. Unfortunately everyone is closed for the holidays.

We started to put DS on his tummy a few weeks ago and it helped some. His is quick to flip if he wants so I felt comfortable doing it. I also like the idea of trying to swaddle again. DS hated swaddling from the start and always wiggled out, but my guess is just that we were doing it poorly. We do have a swing that he never cared for but maybe he will enjoy it now.

I have been very reluctant to try an elimination diet because we have never seen any other symptoms of food allergies. We had spoke with the ped about it and she said she doubted that it was a problem. She said their practice rarely sees any true food sensitivities and most problems are explained by other issues. Anyway, maybe it is time to cut dairy just to see (maybe after tomorrow







)

I just feel so hopeless. Up until now I kept deluding myself thinking that each night was *the* night and I would forget how bad it was. Now I just feel depressed, like it will never get better and everything will keep falling apart around me.


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## MissLotus (Nov 2, 2005)

I always thought that sleep deprivation was by far the #1 most difficult thing about becoming a parent. Pregnancy was okay, labor I did not enjoy but survived... but the sleep part, man... that was tough.

I was lucky in that my son never cried - never had colic or any of that stuff... it's just that he also didn't sleep! I didn't feel comfortable just going off taking a nap and leaving my infant sitting there alone unattended, so I never slept either. All those "new motherhood" books that said "Sleep when the baby sleeps".... HA! I threw them away. He had 5 or 6 broken hours of sleep a night, and 45 mins. - one hour each day. That was IT. He seemed fine, but it was killing me.

And then.... when he was 13 months old we moved. I have no idea if it was the new surroundings, or if he would have anyway, but he began to nap every day for 3 solid hours!!!!! 1-4pm. Just like that. At night he still woke up once or twice, but went back to sleep quickly. I became a new woman.

So hang in there... this won't go on forever and will come when you least expect it. I promise he'll grow and eventually sleep!


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## chelko (May 22, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *penstamon* 
I have been very reluctant to try an elimination diet because we have never seen any other symptoms of food allergies. We had spoke with the ped about it and she said she doubted that it was a problem. She said their practice rarely sees any true food sensitivities and most problems are explained by other issues. Anyway, maybe it is time to cut dairy just to see (maybe after tomorrow







)

I've yet to find a dr who didn't completely discount any connection between food issues with ANYTHING else.

I was a terrible sleeper. I took hours to fall asleep even though I was completely exhausted, woke frequently, couldn't go back to sleep, always falling asleep during the day. It all changed when I discovered a gluten allergy. Once I cut it out of my diet, my sleep improved 100%. I can fall asleep in 15 minutes, I no longer wake up several times a night, and I can make it all day without passing out on the couch the moment I sit down.

Your digestive tract is the second largest system in your body (next to skin). You get all your nutrition from it, it is the main eliminator of waste. If there is something wrong there, you can bet it can affect just about ever other part of the body. Remember, food allergies do not always manifest in typical ways.

It may take a while to sort out, but if you do it seriously, at the very least you'll determine that food is NOT be the problem.

Good luck.


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## Beauchamp (Jan 12, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *penstamon* 
I know this isn't "normal", so please don't just tell me that. I can't take being told it's teething, it's a growth spurt, it's milestones, etc. It's just not.

Please, help. Anything? I can't do this anymore.









I'm in this place now, too. The thing for me is that no matter what the real reason is-- teething, white noise, light sleeper, growth spurt, milestone, etc, I will never *really* know what is causing it because DD can't tell me. And so it doesn't matter, and I try to adopt a one-day-at-a-time mentality. Sometimes it's one hour at a time.







I keep telling myself to get rid of any preconceived notions of what my baby "should" be like. Yes, it has brought me to the edge MANY times. It helps me to get rid of any expectations whatsoever--so what little good stuff I get is very, very good. When I expect a few solid hours of sleep and don't get it, I am devastated. When I expect nothing but a hellish night and I get two hours back to back, I am surprisingly okay with it.

(I don't mean this to sound snarky at all, so I hope it doesn't come across that way.) Big hugs, mama.

It kind of makes me feel like I really *can* run that marathon someday, because if I can do this...


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## sehbub (Mar 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *penstamon* 
I also like the idea of trying to swaddle again. DS hated swaddling from the start and always wiggled out, but my guess is just that we were doing it poorly. We do have a swing that he never cared for but maybe he will enjoy it now.

If you have the resources, get a Miracle Blanket. It can make all the difference. You just can't swaddle like that with a receiving blanket or any of those velcro swaddlers. They also have incredible customer service. 100% money back guarantee (including shipping!) any time in the first 30 days for ANY reason. They'll also replace it if it's defective no matter how long you've had it, and will replace it if it's been destroyed (like if your dog decides it looks delicious) for the first 4 months.

I plan to get at least 2 for the new baby because heaven forbid one is in the wash. It's the only way my SIL could get my nephew to sleep for months.


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## rzberrymom (Feb 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sehbub* 
If you have the resources, get a Miracle Blanket.

I agree!!!! My DD went from sleeping in 60-90 minute stretches to 4 hour stretches!!

Tummy sleeping helps her sleep longer too--not quite as much as the Miracle Blanket, but still pretty good.

I always meant to try sacrocranial therapy with my first DD because of the difficult birth, but I never did.

And getting rid of dairy completely REALLY helped with my first DD's sleep!


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## Kailey's mom (Apr 19, 2007)

the first thing that somes to mind is silent reflux. Google it and investigate.. my dd had this, and while it did get better with age; I remember where you are at. In the meantime, see if elevating you bed will help, or making sure the baby is sleeping at a 30 degree angle using a pillow wedge. We had a tucker sling at that age. Elimination diet would also be a good thing to look into, not to be gross, but how is you lo's stool? I would rule out all things "medical".. in the meantime, make yourself nap when the baby does. DH would give me a break and I would make sure to take a 2 hr nap when he got home. This will get better, really. It could take 2 weeks to get all the dairy out of your system, but it could really help in the longrun. We did have to put dd on reflux meds to ease the pain. Hugs!!!!


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## anj_rn (Oct 1, 2009)

After my DS was born, I felt like I finally knew why sleep deprivation was a form of torture. I found he slept best swaddles in the swing (with a side to side motion) and rain sounds. He also was one who did not sleep for long stretches at a time. I would suggest gining your DH a night off one night and having him sleep elsewhere, then have him watch DS the next day so you can sleep a few hours. This has worked really well for us.


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

This may sound crazy if you've never heard of elimination communication but it can totally work.
When your baby wakes, before you nurse, remove the diaper and put the baby over a little receptacle (either a little potty or Tupperware container) and say, "shhhhhhhh" the baby may pee and let the baby fully eliminate. Your babe may go back to sleep without needing t nurse or with just little suck for comfort.
Often babies are uncomfortable with a full bladder and they are not born wanting to pee on themselves.
check out the EC forum on this board for more info..(If that interests you)


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## kdtmom2be (Aug 26, 2006)

I think you've gotten lots of good advice here.









DD was, and is still (at 30 months) a terrible sleeper. It's midnight, she's been in bed since 9pm and has been up twice already. Luckily, now that she's older, when she gets up in the night she comes in to sleep with me and sleeps more soundly (I do not though, which is why she starts the night in her own bed).

Things that helped when she was a baby:
- swaddling (I have 1.5yd square peices of flannel, I swaddled her until she was 14 months)
- gripe water (she has an allergy to garlic and was affected even when I ate and then nursed her)
- nightweaning (but I waited until 14 months, she was still so reliant on BM before that and not eating solids that I just couldn't do it, her health depended on it)
- tummy sleeping (even swaddled she could turn her head from side to side and usually could get her hands out to push herself up)

And frankly, I'd ignore the doc. While I'm not one to put a lot of stake in the "eat right for your type" and other sorts of diets, I do believe wholeheartedly that a LOT of people suffer from food sensitivitites. My DD can't handle garlic and onions, I can't have red food dyes, my DS can't have aspartame... when I eat red dyes I am up for nights on end, it's awful. It can take up to a week to get it out of my system enough to get a decent night's sleep. When I drink diet sodas my DS has a REALLY rough night. The same baby that usually sleeps 4-6 hours at a time will be up every 30-45 minutes all night long.


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## Kreeblim (Dec 19, 2009)

My 4 year old was JUST like that as an infant and it turned out to be reflux. Nursed every 45 minutes, even at night and just cried and screamed all the time...he also felt a little better on his tummy than his back, but eventually had to sleep partially upright. It took a very long time for it to get better, but at 4 he is an amazing sleeper and starting out with the WORST kid has made the others feel like a breeze.

Also (and I might catch hell for this) but our 18 month old was going to be a cosleeper just like our first. We have the arm's reach side car as well as the little center-of-bed snuggle nest. We noticed that when we put him down on the bed for naps he would wake up cranky and irritable as soon as we got into bed...but if we put him in a different room in the packnplay he stayed asleep until he needed to eat. He would fall asleep again after eating, and then become irritable if we touched him or moved on the bed (or made even a slight noise) whereas in the totally dark closed off room he would fall solidly asleep again. We ran out to get a moniter, borrowed a crib and we had our first non-cosleeper at about a month old. It did suck to get up and walk across the hallway to nurse, but the boy just literally could not handle the stimulation of being near us, so it was better than having him cranky and sleep deprived all night! To this day he has to be put into his crib when he gets tired (no CIO...he calms instantly when he sees his crib) because ANYWHERE else he just stays awake and miserable. He won't fall asleep in the car, a sling, a stroller, or laying on or carried by me or DH...only in HIS room, in HIS crib. God forbid we ever had to sleep somewhere other than home because he would NOT be able to do it.

So in summary:

1) Check for reflux, and know it WILL get better.

2) Check to see if maybe he just has a sensory overload...I wouldn't have believed it, but there really are some babies that just can't handle being around other people while trying to sleep.

3) Good luck! The other suggestions here have been excellent as well!


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## JHopesMomma (Aug 25, 2009)

I agree with everyone who's suggested trying to eliminate some things from your diet. The first 6 weeks after my daughter was born was just how you'd describe. At about 6 weeks I was going back to work and we also had an appointment with a lactation consultant because of some latch issues. During our appointment, the LC asked if there was anything else we had questions about, so we mentioned that she just wouldn't settle down at night and wouldn't sleep anywhere but on our chests. She said to try eliminating dairy because milk and particularly ice cream could be very irritating to her (and I was eating ice cream like almost every night!). I stopped eating all dairy and within a few days it was SO much better! She started going to bed at a regular time, and was even sleeping through the night. She's almost 10 months now, and I can eat some dairy, but if I go overboard I do notice a difference in her sleep qualities.

I really hope you're able to get some good rest and figure this out! Good luck


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## Blueone (Sep 12, 2009)

Try a different sleeping position maybe. My son only sleeps well on his tummy. Once we put him on his tummy at night around a month he started sleeping around 6 hours stretches. I know every doctor says not to do that, but you know, my son is healthy and he sleep great this way.

Also, dairy or other food sensitivities like soy. I have 5 food allergies and when I found out what they were and cut them out of my diet I felt rested and fell asleep so much better in addition to other benefits in my health. My son sleeps horribly if we do any other formula (we had to formula feed due to my medical conditions, not enough milk) other than Similac Sensitive. He'll start to wake up frequently at night. He can't even tolerate the off brand Parents Choice sensitivity which is also lactose free. We had tried that and after a week he started waking every hour and would just cry and cry. Once he was back on Similac Sensitive he went back to sleeping up to 12 hour stretches.

So I'd try that. Start with dairy and if you see an improvement then you know. If you see only a slight improvement move onto Soy. Those 2 are the biggest culprits.

Good Luck


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## chiara (Apr 6, 2005)




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## sehbub (Mar 15, 2006)

Any updates, mama? I've been wondering how y'all were doing.


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MissLotus* 
I always thought that sleep deprivation was by far the #1 most difficult thing about becoming a parent. Pregnancy was okay, labor I did not enjoy but survived... but the sleep part, man... that was tough.

Me, too. It's also something that isn't talked about seriously. It's a joke in many parenting groups, but I think many parents are afraid to talk about how bad it truly is.

DS has always been a terrible sleeper. Yes, it is better now, but he's almost 5. It's been better maybe a year. We cut out dairy for 18 months because of other issues, but it didn't help the sleep here.

My best pieces of advice from having been there -
1. Find somewhere else for your husband to sleep. Seriously - whether it's a spare bedroom, you and your DS sleeping on a futon, whatever it is. If he's grouchy and has to get up for work and doesn't want nighttime parenting duty, then get him somewhere else. Eliminating the arguing from you both being exhausted will help.

2. Get sleep. For us, this meant that 1 week night I slept from when DH got home until he went to bed. I also slept a "shift" on Sundays. Your sleep makes all the difference in dealing with it.

3. Take your DS on a car ride if you can. Even if he doesn't sleep once you're home, he needs some way to get some sleep in. DS would get so worked up that he couldn't sleep though he desperately needed it. Helping him find ways to get sleep will help him start to settle down.

4. Elevation often works. I slept propped up for many months with DS lying on my chest & stomach. It helped tremendously.


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## penstamon (Nov 6, 2008)

We reached a new low on xmas night and it was a night I hope will become fuzzy in my memory before too long. DH ended up having to sleep in another room so I stayed up with DS all night. Naps have been OK the past two days but nighttime is still awful. I put him to bed around 1.5 hrs ago and he has been up twice. He is sleeping elevated on his tummy. I didn't swaddle because I haven't found anything large enough yet but I will try to look again tomorrow. It has been hard to do much, including shopping, because I feel awful.

I am so frustrated that its the holidays and no dr's or practitioners are open. My pedi shrugged me off and couldn't see me the other day- "some babies are just like that". I have two CSTs to contact tomorrow so I am hopeful about that. I didn't mention on my earlier post that DS has this weird transient torticollis- it comes and goes. He is quite strong and on target with milestones but I can't help feeling that this persistent problem is related. So yes, therapy may be helpful.

Sleep deprivation hurts your body, mind, marriage, well-being, sense of stability but I can still look at DS and love him with every fiber of my being. A day at a time is excellent advice Beauchamp.


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## gbutterflykissesm (Apr 8, 2008)

Sleep deprivation really is the worst. I can handle everything, but sleep deprivation really made me feel like I was going crazy. I completely understand how you feel. from maybe 2-5 months, DS woke every 15-30 minutes too. I work full time and I was actually hallucinating at work from lack of sleep. You really have gotten some great advice. I know that too much advice can be overwhelming, so you have to decide WHAT you choose to change... Don't try to do it all at once, and you don't have to do it all. That said, this is what helped me. #3 is the one I would stress the most as something you can start doing right away that will really make a difference in helping you get through this:

1). I started giving DS probiotics. I saw a change within a week... he would wake up every 1-2 hours instead of every 15-30 minutes.

2). When DS did wake up in the night I would give him coccyntal (homeopathic remedy for stomach crampiness) because it always seemed like he had gas and it really bothered him and kept him awake.

3). If DS went to bed at 7PM, I would go to bed at 7. Even though I was getting interrupted sleep, at least I was getting to bed earlier. If your DH is up later, maybe he can do a shift from when you go to bed early until he goes to sleep, so maybe you could get a 3-4 hour block of sleep before he goes to bed.

4). When I was sensing that DH was really irritable about the lack of sleep, I would bring DS into the guest room and sleep with him there. Once DH was rested again after having several hours of sleep, he was in a much better mood and much more willing to help the next night.

5). A PP mentioned about sensory overload making it hard for a baby to get and stay asleep. My DS is like this. If I so much as breathe too loud, he wakes up if he is next to me. But at the same time, sometimes if he is in his crib towards the early morning when he is less tired and wakes more frequently anyway, he wakes often and cries, so I bring him into bed with me where he can sleep and nurse. This extends his night of sleep for maybe another hour, but it IS another hour of sleep. For both of us. In sum, experiment with where your baby sleeps. We tried: in bed with us, in the guest bed with just me, in the pack and play in the living room right outside the bedroom door, in his crib in his room, in the arm's reach cocoon next to our bed, in the arm's reach cocoon in his room... At different stages, he liked sleeping in a different place. Another thing I noticed was that if he wasn't so close to me, it would take me a minute to go to him if he made noise in the night. And I realized that more than 1/2 the time, he was just making noise in his sleep. He groans a lot and is very vocal. And I was rushing in and stimulating him every time he groaned, which would wake him up fully. Now he is 7 months old, and I let him groan. If he cries, I go in.. But I watch him in a video monitor (or if he is next to me) if he is just groaning and moaning with his eyes closed and changing sleeping positions, I let him be.

6). Try changing bed time. What happens if you put baby down an hour earlier? An hour later?

My baby still doesn't nap well (needs movement so he sleeps in a carrier or swaddled in the cocoon). But his night sleep is much more routine. And going to bed super early for me was the only way I could deal with the sleep deprivation... think about it... if you can get a chunk of sleep out of the way before midnight, waking up at midnight is not AS bad. Still bad, but you can deal. Good luck... hang in there.


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## maddycakes (Apr 14, 2008)

maybe these have already been mentioned, but what worked for me when we were going through this was

1) eliminating ALL sources of caffeine...even chocolate. Not even one bite/sip/whatever. Ditto for tomatoes. Took about a week before we saw the switch in her sleeping habits. Anytime I slipped, I paid for it!

2) Use a noise machine if you don't already have one (or an am/fm radio turned in between channels).

3) Try different swaddles. My LO did NOT like her hands swaddled (my nephew does) but liked the rest of her body swaddled.

4) Make sure the room is pitch dark...use blackout shades. Often you don't realize how much light is coming in at night. But it really can confuse the body (especially little ones) as they develop their circadian rhythms. If you absolutely need some minimal light--put a night light in a nearby room with the door closed halfway. This also made a huge difference for my DD, even now.

Good luck...and hang in there. Someday YOU will be the one writing advice, trust me.


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## bellydance2290 (Dec 22, 2006)

I just wanted to bring up the food allergies again - my dd has multiple food allergies and her biggest symptom is sleep issues! She will get a little bit of eczema but overall, we know when she has eaten something bad when she isn't sleeping. So, it might be worth trying an elimination diet. I've been on a restricted diet for 18 mths now and it isn't the end of the world. You get used to it. Just keep a food journal for a few weeks and see if you notice anything change. It might be worth it, especially if that is the cause. And the allergies (or intolerances) might be causing silent reflux like others mentioned. A big one for my dd is tomatoes - they make her nuts. Same with corn.


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## penstamon (Nov 6, 2008)

The past two nights we have not really slept at all. I think DS may have gone two 45 min. stretches last night but he was basically awake and fussy/crying from 11:45-5:30. He will only settle if he is upright so my back is killing me! He seems fussiest after eating, especially if he is flat so we nursed sitting up. He burps and farts more, has gurgles in his belly a lot- a few times last night I would hear a loud gurgle and he would wake screaming a minute later. We tried gripe water, simethicone, and colic tablets last night to no avail. His poop is normal but this morning he has a slight red rash around the anus (never had that before). I think silent reflux is definitely possible, as is a food intolerance and I just feel so overwhelmed. DH broke his toe (he thinks) by accident last night by kicking the bed frame when he was getting up with DS to calm him.









We can't get in for CST or the chiropractor until next week and the stupid ped office is still blowing me off. I'm literally sitting by the phone all morning hoping that someone will see my poor babe and help! DS got a decent nap in yesterday in the stroller (only our 2nd time using one), but I had to push him around for 1.5 hrs in the cold. I need the exercise and fresh air but I am so dang tired and would like to nap too.

My pp AF returned the other day- I don't know if that could contribute to this? I think he may still have a spot of thrush in his mouth too. We usually treat with GSE and acidophilus, but I am getting wary of giving him anything at all.

I just don't know where to start with my diet. I did stop dairy a few days ago and then ate some by accident in a soup. Do I just stop eating everything other than lettuce and rice (yes I'm exaggerating)? Do I stop taking supplements? Stop moisturizing? Brushing my teeth? Stop treating thrush? Stop gripe water and homeopathics? My diet has not changed since his birth, neither have my supplements or beauty products. Whether coincidentally or not, his sleep has degenerated ever since the first thrush episode 3 months ago- we treated then with nystatin (didn't work), GSE, acidophilus, lotrimin (for me).

I'm sorry this is so discombobulated but I am racking my brain as to causes. I need a little magic.


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *penstamon* 
The past two nights we have not really slept at all. I think DS may have gone two 45 min. stretches last night but he was basically awake and fussy/crying from 11:45-5:30. He will only settle if he is upright so my back is killing me! *He seems fussiest after eating, especially if he is flat so we nursed sitting up. He burps and farts more, has gurgles in his belly a lot- a few times last night I would hear a loud gurgle and he would wake screaming a minute later.* We tried gripe water, simethicone, and colic tablets last night to no avail. His poop is normal but this morning he has a slight red rash around the anus (never had that before). I think silent reflux is definitely possible, as is a food intolerance and I just feel so overwhelmed. DH broke his toe (he thinks) by accident last night by kicking the bed frame when he was getting up with DS to calm him.









We can't get in for CST or the chiropractor until next week and the stupid ped office is still blowing me off. I'm literally sitting by the phone all morning hoping that someone will see my poor babe and help! DS got a decent nap in yesterday in the stroller (only our 2nd time using one), but I had to push him around for 1.5 hrs in the cold. I need the exercise and fresh air but I am so dang tired and would like to nap too.

My pp AF returned the other day- I don't know if that could contribute to this? I think he may still have a spot of thrush in his mouth too. We usually treat with GSE and acidophilus, but I am getting wary of giving him anything at all.

I just don't know where to start with my diet. I did stop dairy a few days ago and then ate some by accident in a soup. Do I just stop eating everything other than lettuce and rice (yes I'm exaggerating)? Do I stop taking supplements? Stop moisturizing? Brushing my teeth? Stop treating thrush? Stop gripe water and homeopathics? My diet has not changed since his birth, neither have my supplements or beauty products. Whether coincidentally or not, his sleep has degenerated ever since the first thrush episode 3 months ago- we treated then with nystatin (didn't work), GSE, acidophilus, lotrimin (for me).

I'm sorry this is so discombobulated but I am racking my brain as to causes. I need a little magic.

The bolded sounds exactly like reflux/allergies. Dr. Sears has an elimination diet, you can google it. Or, you can start with one food (dairy) and if that doesn't help try another (soy next).. you can google the top 8 allergens and work from there.

The thing with allergies, is that the more you eat the allergenic foods, the worse the allergy will get in your DS. It builds up, so that could be why he has progressively gotten worse and worse. Also, with the elimination diet, you have to be REALLY careful, and read labels for hidden forms of dairy/soy/whatever. Dairy can take 2-3 weeks to get out of your system, and any slip-up can be a set back.








Mama. I know how hard this is. We went through it all with my DS. I was a mess. But I got through it, and even though we're still sleep deprived, it isn't as bad as it was, and I feel like I can cope now. It will get better.


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## gbutterflykissesm (Apr 8, 2008)

Wow. Been there been there been there. I am so sorry!! It will end, I promise. My DS had a lot of the same stomach issues as yours. I did try an elimination diet, but nothing changed. I think he just had to grow out of it.

It may be worth trying. Then you will know. But you have to be super diligent for 3 weeks so that if it is a food intolerance his gut has time to heal. I basically would make big pots of brown rice and grill a bunch of veggies and put it all together with some fresh herbs (think cilantro, basil). I eliminated soy, dairy, nuts, and wheat. I really only ate fresh foods. It did make me a huge monster. I was so cranky from lack of sleep and not being able to eat what I wanted. But it was only 3 weeks, and I just kept telling myself. If I cheated I'd be back to square one and I'd never know if food was the culprit.

And after those 3 weeks, I now know that it's not the culprit, so it was worth it in the long run.

Mama, get some sleep when you can. Is there ever a stretch where your DS will sleep even 2 hours? In the early evening? Can you put him in a baby carrier and recline on a sofa, recliner or chair to nap yourself? This is what I did several times, and it was a huge help. You need to start with getting some sleep yourself. REally, people can do crazy things when sleep deprived; you can feel truly crazy and out of control. Can DH help by taking DS for a walk while you nap? Can you hire a babysitter for a few hours while you nap? Even one 2 hour nap a day will help. Please try to get some support IRL, even if it's just for a few days. A few hours of sleep can make a world of difference.


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## moongloe (Jan 30, 2002)

first i want to say how sorry i am that you're so miserable.

food allergies. i know a lot of mamas have already suggested it, but i have to put in my 2cents.

we had the same issues with our now 5mo that you described. i already suspected a food allergy, but took him to his ped anyway. she agreed the problem was with what i was eating, and told me to do a full out elimination diet.

i should say here, that things had gotten so bad by this time, that there was mucus and a bit of blood in his diaper. before then it was just the sleep/gas/crying.

i eliminated corn, wheat, soy, dairy, and eggs for 3 weeks, then began testing the eliminated foods. it took me months to do, because it turned out he was sensitive to all legumes, and all nightshades (but neither eggs nor dairy). every time we suspected something new, i had to retest other things. i am not happy at so many things i can no longer eat (especially as i'm a vegetarian), but....

my lo no longer has any of the issues! as i eliminated problem foods things got slowly better. then when i cut out nightshades - boom! it all stopped, and he is now a normal 5mo. rarely spits, no more gas, poops are normal, rashes and congestions long gone, he sleeps 2-3 hours at a stretch, and no more crying.

one of the symptoms of food allergies is sleep problems; both poor sleeping at night, and cat-napping in the day. there are many other symptoms: spitting up, rashes, diarrhea, mucus stools, colic, fussiness, irritability, congestion, eczema. but your lo could have only one or two and still have food issues.

my advice is to do without dairy, eggs, corn, soy, and wheat for 3 weeks. it's not fun, but if there is a chance this could be your lo's problem, it's so worth trying. my ped suggested doing a very mild diet during this time as well: ie white rice instead of brown, easy on garlic, onions, chocolate, no caffeine. i can't recall why the mild foods, but perhaps someone else here can.

my lo slept better on our chests. it could've been the pressure on his belly, our heartbeats, being on a slight incline - don't know. have you tried this? he still sleeps this way on dh half the night, and on me for naps. the rest of the night he sleeps next to me. he still needs to pop off and on the breast constantly, but he does it from a deep sleep.

oh, and it could be food sensitivities, not allergies and cause the same problems. either way the treatment is the same.

hang in there. we are all here for you.


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## sunfish21 (Jun 4, 2009)

Oh, I am so sorry. I am about a month into actually getting sleep (after 20 months) and remember the drugged-haze feeling and the crying well. It is awful and it will not last forever--just feels like it). Make sure DH helps and you get some sleep (I had to take tylenol PM and wear ear plugs to fall asleep I was so worried how it would go, but he promised to wake me if they needed me).

I was told to cut out foods, too...dairy was the first, but they asked about sugar, too. I think regularly seeing a chiropractor is well worth every out of pocket dime I have spent on it. We experiemented; co-sleeping, own crib, etc...for a few months she slept a little better in her own crib in her own room. Then she started sleeping better with me. It will change, some babies take longer. But it does sound like something else might be going on--I would start with dairy and chiro.


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## TzippityDoulah (Jun 29, 2005)

all 3 of my babies have been that way. my yongest is 8 months and he's still up every 1-2 hrs all night lng. (sometimes once in a while we get 4 hrs! it's a miracle!) and he's rarely much of a napper.

I would suggest looking into allergies (either his food or thorugh your breastmilk) and reflux

but at anyrate please know there are those of out here who totally understand. it is so hard and then to be told "it's just a phase/teething..." ugh! it's so annoying and disheartening!

a baby waking every 25 mins or even every hr ISN'T normal. especually if he wont go back to bed. that doesn't mean something horrible is wrong - could be simple to fix. but you shoudn't feel like you don't have right to be worried and exhausted.


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## newmommy7-08 (Feb 2, 2008)

Mama I just saw this post. When DS was younger this was him, didn't sleep, seemed in pain after eating. With him it was reflux, it took 1 week on zantac to make him stop being in pain and allow him to sleep. If you still haven't gotten anywhere w/ the peds office, please consider another doctor. If the office isn't going to take your concerns seriously then is it really worth relying on them?

Best of luck to you and I hope you're getting some sleep!


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## hollytheteacher (Mar 10, 2007)

Sounds like maybe a food allergy to something you are eating in your diet (since he is ebf). My ds was severely allergic to cow's milk to the point that If i ate something with a TRACE amount of milk in it he would have blood in his poop. Once I cut it out of my diet his sleep improved immensely, he wasn't as irritable and he relaxed a lot more. It was really hard but obviously worth it.

Have you tried an elimination diet (also I haven't read the other posts yet so sorry if this is repetitive.

Also do you have anyone else that can help? A mother, sister etc that could come spend the night at your house to give you one good night of sleep. They could still bring your LO to you when you need to nurse, but other than that the could try bouncing, swinging, etc. while you get some rest?? Sounds like you are almost at emergency point of needing some sleep!!


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## penstamon (Nov 6, 2008)

You all are so wonderful for your understanding replies







I have cut out dairy/soy now for almost 3 weeks and there has been some change, but who knows why yet. We started chiro visits last week and we seem to see an improvement that night, but then back to the awful patterns after that. The zantac and probiotics have been helping the silent reflux symptoms so many of his night wakings do not seem so painful and traumatic, though they are still frequent. Overall we have seen some improvement with the duration of sleep- maybe getting 1.5 hours a little more consistently until 3-4am when the every 45 min. comes back until we get up. We start CST in a week and a half and I am so looking forward to it! What has really helped is having DH and I switch off to sleep in another room throughout the night just so we have a break and a chance at a few hours of sleep at a time. That in itself makes even the worst nights bearable.

I know some of you warned against it, but we started DS on solids last week- he really really wanted them and eats like a champ (pears, brown rice, now avocados and next week yams). We have not seen any tummy/reflux/poop problems since we started so I think it was the right thing to do. We will try a trial without zantac in two weeks and I am crossing my fingers.

Surprisingly we had a decent night last night. We went to a party against my better judgment and DS wouldn't nap there so we left early but still 2 hours after his bedtime. He seemed fine- happy, engaged, comfortable even though I was so nervous that he was overtired and would be up all night. He slept a 4 hour stretch!!!!!!!! Unfortunately we were only in bed for 2.5 hours of it, but it felt like bliss. He then woke every 2 hours after that until his usual wake up time. I have no idea what to make of it since we have made so many changes, but man I am thankful for it.

All your suggestions have helped so much and your support even more so. We have no family here and very few friends with kids so no one really understands our sleep deprivation (if I have to hear about people who think their kid was a bad sleeper because they woke 1-2 times a night one more time I will scream) or how difficult it is for your sanity, health, and relationships. Its so helpful to have somewhere to vent and also to know that you all lived through the same thing and are still standing


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## Dera (Sep 9, 2008)

I just read through this for the first time and I was just happy to read the last post so I thought I would comment. I wonder if the later bed time would help? With my oldest, I was always trying to get him to sleep, convinced that he was tired or over tired but once I stopped trying, it got a lot better. I had to completely ditch a routine with him. His bed time changes all the time, even now at 3. And when I thought about it, I realized that mine does too. Some nights I need to be asleep before 8. Other nights, not until 11. If he didn't fall asleep nursing, I just put him down and let him play more. Often, that did the trick. He just wasn't ready to go to bed. Or sometimes, when I thought he was going to bed at 6 or something, it was really just a last late nap and he went to bed at like 9, for example. If I tried to push keeping him asleep, he would wake up all night long, from what must have been too much sleep I suppose.

Or maybe the food sensitivities are working themselves out after 3 weeks of elimination? That's great about the CST, I wish I could try that.

The best thing that I did, which I was reminded of from your post, was to get out every day. He loved it, we got a lot of sunlight and interaction, it made us both happier. Maybe he loves the stimulation and being around people and it just tuckered him out? Do you get out a lot? My son still loves getting out. Home just bores him to tears.

It's great to hear of success, no matter how small. Good luck!


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## bobandjess99 (Aug 1, 2005)

I'm just now seeing your post. I am glad you're finlly getting a tiny bit of sleep. I had 2 non-slepers. I'm glad to say it is finally a vague hazy mempry, lol, but i rememebr the awfulness.
What you said aboutteh party..I found my kids NEEDED to have NEW, different stimulation in order to sleep at all. So, every day, we woulod go out..to the store, just to walk around, I'd let them play with the toys, etc. When it was nice, out for walks, to the park, etc. We'd go to the library, bookstore, mall, even just out to eat or slomething.....it made a big difference.
Thw other issue for us, was not trying ot "get" them to sleep at any certain time..just waiting until they were ready to sleep and tired....
Ds had the gurgley tummy..we know now he is allergic to cow milk, nd some otehr sthings we still havent'f figured out. But the gurgley nights are the worst, definitely.
I know some are going to think this is wrong, but he slept better with a dose of advil in him..even if he didn't have anythign wrong making me think he was in pain, the act of just processingthe medicine, i guess, made him sleep. As did a tummy full of solids. I know, it's supposed to be a myth, but whatever. Worked for my kids, and since they were getting healthy food and not just rice paste, I think it was fine. Really, at tyhat point, ANYthing to get some sleep.


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## Chloe'sMama (Oct 14, 2008)

Glad you got so many great suggestions and things seem to be getting a bit better.

Wanted to add that gluten was our culprit. We tried so many different eliminations and saw a drastic change within a few days of taking it out of my diet.

Good luck!


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## Beauchamp (Jan 12, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *penstamon* 
I just feel so hopeless. Up until now I kept deluding myself thinking that each night was *the* night and I would forget how bad it was. Now I just feel depressed, like it will never get better and everything will keep falling apart around me.

Subscribing. I am up right now crying. I could have written your original post almost word for word, and so didn't want to start a new thread.









DD is bouncing in the Ergo, and I am crying.







DH is sleeping because he has work in the morning.







She just won't sleep. I am losing it, too.


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## pangirl (Aug 26, 2008)

I do not have advice, but am another person saying "I could have written this post!"

My dd is 5.5 mos old, and has not slept more than 2 hours at night since birth. The two hour stretches are the good nights. Very often we have nights where she'll sleep 45 mins at a time. Her naps are usually 30-45 mins.

I cry a lot, I feel depressed, my relationship with my husband, which was amazing before DD, is strained. It makes me sad that though DD has brought so much love into our lives, I dont enjoy it as much as I feel I should because of how the lack of sleep makes me feel.

I am so envious of mamas who get 2 hour naps to have alone time or get stuff done, or who only wake 1-2 a night. I feel like they must parent better because sleep deprivation has such an emotional and mental toll on me. I am not myself feeling so angry or sad. My dd and my husband deserve the best, I am so lucky to have them, but the tired is ruining me.

But I'm glad to know I am not alone. Sometimes I feel like I am just doing everything wrong because she won't sleep.


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## penstamon (Nov 6, 2008)

Beauchamp and pangirl- I am so sorry that you are going through this too, I would never wish this on any mama. I totally understand feeling depressed and having my marriage feel strained. The holidays brought out the worst in us this year but it is time to move on.

On a good note- in the depths of despair DH and I had some excellent arguments and discussions that brought us to make some changes, whether or not they will hold. I think this in itself has played a role in helping DS sleep a little better.

1. I have committed myself to getting exercise everyday no matter how tired or busy or miserable I feel
2. DH and I switch off sleeping separately at night if no one is sleeping
3.DH takes DS for 45 minutes in the morning while I sleep and he gets ready for work

Otherwise I can't say what is helping or if its a little of everything (see my last post), but DS has had 3 decent nights in a row. He is sleeping roughly a 3 hour stretch in the beginning of the night and then waking every 2 hours until around 4am, then its every 30- 45 minutes. Its amazing that this is "good", but I'll take what I can get.

Some of you have suggested not sticking to a certain bedtime/naptimes and I think you may have something there. I don't think it works for us to expect DS be very structured (we certainly are not) and the last 3 "good" nights have had fluctuated bedtimes with varied activities and thus varied naps.

I hope I haven't jinxed myself!


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *penstamon* 
Beauchamp and pangirl- I am so sorry that you are going through this too, I would never wish this on any mama. I totally understand feeling depressed and having my marriage feel strained. The holidays brought out the worst in us this year but it is time to move on.

On a good note- in the depths of despair DH and I had some excellent arguments and discussions that brought us to make some changes, whether or not they will hold. I think this in itself has played a role in helping DS sleep a little better.

1. I have committed myself to getting exercise everyday no matter how tired or busy or miserable I feel
2. DH and I switch off sleeping separately at night if no one is sleeping
3.DH takes DS for 45 minutes in the morning while I sleep and he gets ready for work

Otherwise I can't say what is helping or if its a little of everything (see my last post), but DS has had 3 decent nights in a row. He is sleeping roughly a 3 hour stretch in the beginning of the night and then waking every 2 hours until around 4am, then its every 30- 45 minutes. Its amazing that this is "good", but I'll take what I can get.

Some of you have suggested not sticking to a certain bedtime/naptimes and I think you may have something there. I don't think it works for us to expect DS be very structured (we certainly are not) and the last 3 "good" nights have had fluctuated bedtimes with varied activities and thus varied naps.

I hope I haven't jinxed myself!


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## penstamon (Nov 6, 2008)

I wanted to share an update in our ongoing sleep saga with everyone. We just saw a CST for the first time- we had to wait a month to get in- and I am shocked and a little miffed at what she was telling us. Basically DS has torticollis (head tilt) that our ped did not see or acknowledge until recently and told us it was mild and would not cause problems. Well we were seeing the ped for silent reflux but as western medicine dictates all things in the human body are to be treated separately, she saw no connection (we had asked).

The CST thinks the torticollis has gotten worse, classified as moderate now, and is actually pulling DS's body to twist in a minor way to the eye, but major enough to put pressure on the pyloric sphincter of the stomach and cause reflux. This in turn is most likely the major culprit of his poor sleep habits. DS loved her and withstood 1.5 hours of therapy (WOW!!!) Upon leaving he fell asleep in his carseat with his head facing the direction that he has always hated and would not let us position him in. He has currently been napping for over an hour and seems so peaceful and happy









I can't say how this will help in the long run but I am very hopeful after one visit. We have to continue therapy once a week for the next month or more so the CST warned us not to get discouraged too easily.


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## moongloe (Jan 30, 2002)

your update made my day - i'm so happy to hear you found a light at the end of your tunnel. keep us posted, please.

~peace.


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## cristeen (Jan 20, 2007)

mama.

While I don't have a screamer on a normal day, he does have his days (and he screamed the first few weeks until we figured out some things)... and a few things that have helped me with the sleep dep...

I picked up a stroller on consignment about a month ago. In the laid down position it has him at roughly a 30-45 degree angle. We actually stopped cosleeping when I got it because he sleeps so much better in that stroller than flat on the bed. Bonus is that I can rock it back and forth if he seems restless, or if he's crying and won't let me console him.

Before we got the stroller we got a bouncy chair (also from consignment) with a vibrating seat, and there were days he would fall asleep in that also. It never looked like the most comfortable position, but I never disturb a sleeping baby if I can help it.

And the one that my DH gives me a hard time for. If we go somewhere and he falls asleep in the car seat - assuming I don't need to be anywhere, I just pull into the driveway, lay the drivers seat back and nap right there in the driveway. It may mean I wake up with a sore neck, but if I get 20 minutes of sleep, that's 20 more than I would have gotten by trying to take him inside.

But I completely agree about sleeping apart. It sucks, but my DH and I have shared a bed once, maybe twice, in the last 4 months. He's able to get more sleep that way and I'm able to deal with the baby without worrying about every little sound or movement waking him.


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## rzberrymom (Feb 10, 2005)

Oh mama, that's so great that they were able to help him!!!


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## sahmmie (Jan 13, 2008)

Just wanted to share my "no sleep for months on end" story. My dd was sleeping through the night at 2 weeks of age!!! Yes, two weeks. I'm talking 8-10 hours. I was in heaven and thought I had it made. Then suddenly at around 2 months she began waking frequently at night. I though it was a growth spurt but feeding her didn't calm her. The nights got worse and worse to the point that by the time she was 10 weeks old she was literally waking every 20 - 60 minutes, all night long, every single night. I was at a loss as to what the problem was. She didn't want to eat. She'd take a pacifier, go back to sleep, but be up screaming 20 minutes later. Finally I called the doctor and she suggested it might be silent reflux (meaning the baby has acid reflux, but does not spit up or throw up). We started her on medication (Zantac) and things improved for a while, but I later learned that Zantac only works for a short time for most babies. I didn't know that then so when she started waking every 20 - 60 minutes I assumed reflux wasn't the cause, but it actually was, the medicine just wasn't working anymore.

To make a long story short, she outgrew her silent reflux at 8 months of age and began sleeping 10 - 12 hours at night. I went on to have another baby with reflux and got him on a better medication (Prevacid) so his sleep problems were minimal.

I don't know if your baby has reflux but it's definitely worth looking into.


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## To-Fu (May 23, 2007)

That is great news! I hope his sleep continues to improve. Do keep us updated if you think of it.


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