# I don't know how to react to this but I'm not happy...



## verde (Feb 11, 2007)

I hope this is the correct place to post this. If not, mods, then move it to the appropriate place.

I'm a thrift store queen. I check out the thrift store about once a week. You would not believe the amount of things in my house that came from the thrift store.









For the winter holidays my 28 mos. old DD's big gift was a wooden kitchen and it's really cute. I've picked up lots of funstuff for the kitchen from the thrift store: a tiny little pot, an little cast iron fry pan, some tin dishes.

Lately I've noticed a HUGE appearance of toy dishes, especially tea sets, from China. I will guess the donors of these toy dishes don't want their children to be at risk because the dishes were made from China. That's fine. So my question is:

*WHY DONATE THEM TO THE THRIFT STORE??????*

Exactly what is the thinking here?? I don't want MY children to be at risk but it's OK for someone else's children to be at risk?

A lot of the people who patronize the thrift stores in the area where I live are new immigrants who don't speak much English. I do not mean to sound patronizing but I worry that they are not aware of the publicity about the toys from China. So I feel like there's something terribly WRONG about this situation.

Am I overreacting???


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

As long as the sets aren't recalled- yeah, I think you're overreacting.







But I still buy MIC stuff. I think the whole thing was overblown.

Seems *really* wasteful to throw all that stuff away just because you think that it might possibly have lead.

-Angela


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## JustJamie (Apr 24, 2006)

Yes and no.

I would donate MIC toys to a thrift store, because there are some parents who aren't that concerned about it. (My SIL for one.) So it's their choice to buy or not to buy those toys.

You do raise a valid point about non-native English speakers, who might not be aware of the issues. Perhaps have your thrift store post a multi-language notice warning about those toys?


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## Nature (Mar 12, 2005)

I've seen a million threads on MDC about the MIC toys, and how they get so many from relatives over the holidays and birthdays, and how they don't want to risk it, they want all wood, all natural.. etc.. and everyone and their mother says, "Just donate it!"









On one hand, I can see... yes, if its in decent shape.. why not donate? Its better than a landfill I guess.

On the other hand, I'm one of the people buying from thrift shops. And it feels a bit like someone saying, "Those toys aren't good enough for _*MY*_ children, but they're good enough for _*your*_ children because you're _poor_." Its like a mini slap in the face.

If you really want to help out those less fortunate, donate high quality wooden and all natural toys to your local Goodwill or Salvation Army!









Ya, I know.. in a perfect world..


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## mercy589 (Jun 13, 2006)

better to leave it at a thrift store than the landfill, some people are just going to buy it anyway.


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## liliaceae (May 31, 2007)

Um maybe they donated it because their child didn't like it or outgrew it? Almost all toys are made in China.....


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

Better there than in a landfill. Let parents make a choice.


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## Nature (Mar 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karina5* 
Better there than in a landfill. Let parents make a choice.

A choice between what? No toys, or toys MIC?
Thats a pretty crappy choice.


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nature* 
A choice between what? No toys, or toys MIC?
Thats a pretty crappy choice.


A lot of people have said that they are not that worked up about toys MIC. If a child is not putting toys in their mouth, then they don't worry about it.









I'm sure you could find the thread that was about just that a while back if you did a search.

So it may be a crappy choice to you, but yeah, a lot of families would feel that NO toys would be even crappier.


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## BetsyS (Nov 8, 2004)

Our Goodwill has a sign up (in English and in Spanish) that there have been recalls, that there is some concern over toys MIC, and parents should check out toys before they buy them.

Really, I think that's all they should do.


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## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nature* 
A choice between what? No toys, or toys MIC?
Thats a pretty crappy choice.

I don't really care about MIC. I care about toys that DD puts in her mouth and chews on. But other toys - I have other things higher on my list of things to worry about.

I think that for toys MIC - to me it's a personal choice about each individual toy...

If it's been recalled - then that's another story. But random MIC toys don't bother me.


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## *Robin* (Aug 30, 2007)

We have gone the no-MIC toys route. We received some for Xmas and I tried to return/exchange what I could. So now I am left with MIC, in-box toys I don't want in my house and I have a bag going in the garage because I dont know what to do with them. I think about taking them to the thrift store, but I never do because I worry that one of the toys is actually toxic and I am the one enabling another small child to have it. But then I think of people like my SIL who is trying to get as many MIC toys as possible, she thinks she's rebelling against the rebellion I guess. I haven't noticed any toy signs up in the thrift stores I've been in explaining the concern. So as of now, the toys just sit in a bag in my garage. I might just drive them to SILs house one of these days, but I don't really want my new baby niece playing with them either. There really isn't a good answer.


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## grumpybear (Oct 5, 2006)

Because people like me who are not on the anti-MIC bandwagon may buy them.

And yes, the comment on the non-English speaking immigrants sound a little too patronizing. Just because they don't speak English doesn't mean they're ignorant. There's the internet (you could actually read news there written in languages other than English) and newspapers written in their native language.


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## Nature (Mar 12, 2005)

Because this is MDC, the issue goes even further than just MIC toys. But all plastic and or cheap toys in general. Its the same thing. Personally, I could care less about the MIC craze. However it is a bit unnerving to see everyone dumping what they lovingly call on millions of threads, their "crappy toys" at thrift stores. If you think they're so crappy, why donate them for families struggling financially? Would you donate "crappy" clothes too?

Its the whole attitude I find disturbing.


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## IlluminatedAttic (Aug 25, 2006)

FWIW, all the thrift stores I frequent have been strictly adhering to the recall lists. I realize this doesn't mean all toys MIC are turned down, but at least the choices on their shelves are equal to what shoppers would find in mainstream stores like Walmart - where you will find a large number of the immigrant shoppers you are concerned about.


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## Nature (Mar 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ZFooFoo* 
FWIW, all the thrift stores I frequent have been strictly adhering to the recall lists. I realize this doesn't mean all toys MIC are turned down, but at least the choices on their shelves are equal to what shoppers would find in mainstream stores like Walmart - where you will find a large number of the immigrant shoppers you are concerned about.

In our local thrift stores, the women there can't even discern between kids clothing and adult clothing, let alone correctly identify from a recall list toys that should be destroyed. They just get hauled in and dumped in a big bin. Just the same as the clothes. There is no washing/drying, trying, inspecting going on at all. Nor are there any recall signs posted.


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## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Not everyone thinks that all 'those toys' are crappy.

I think that there are crappy plastic toys (which I throw out) and there are also *gasp* crappy wood toys. We have some. For us they are the toys that DD completely ignores. I have some expensive wooden cars which she won't touch - and neither will the other 3 or 4 kids who've been over to play. She plays happily with the nice plastic cars - but not those. So I will probably donate them. Maybe someone else's child will like them.

But there are good plastic toys - just as there are good wooden ones.

I guess I see this from an environmentalist POV. If people will buy MIC toys anyway (which they will) - then I would MUCH MUCH MUCH rather they buy them second hand than buy them new. If a toy is in good shape, not known to be dangerous, and has any redeeming qualities - then donate it. It's far better than throwing it out and causing someone to buy it new and thus increasing the 'demand'.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

This time of year, many people donate stuff because their kids got too many holiday toys and they need to give away the old ones to make room for the new ones, or because it's been long enough to see that their DC don't like some of the "new" toys and want to declutter their houses of what the kids aren't playing with anyway.

Are you SURE there are more MIC toys now than there were last January? Or are there just more toys now than there were in October?


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## prettypixels (Apr 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nature* 
Because this is MDC, the issue goes even further than just MIC toys. But all plastic and or cheap toys in general. Its the same thing. Personally, I could care less about the MIC craze. However it is a bit unnerving to see everyone dumping what they lovingly call on millions of threads, their "crappy toys" at thrift stores. If you think they're so crappy, why donate them for families struggling financially? Would you donate "crappy" clothes too?

Its the whole attitude I find disturbing.

Crappy is a pretty subjective term, but the reality is that most things donated to thrift stores are not in the best shape, they are used. That is reality. Most of us cannot afford to donate new in box high quality toys or clothes. We donate the things we've *used* and don't need/want anymore. So if that's "crappy," well... what would NOT donating be???

The Salvation Army is no longer taking used toy donations at all, which sucks, because I have a ton of very NOT CRAPPY toys that we are not using that I was taking to donate. Now I don't know what to do with them. It *would* be nice to get the tiny tax break from donating to the Salvation Army.


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## Nature (Mar 12, 2005)

Well, see.. I can understand the environment point of view.. which is why I included that in my post.

Perhaps what bothers me more than, is the attitude I've seen in recent past regarding these "crappy toys."

Theres a huge difference between saying, "My children don't like these toys, or play with them.. so I'm going to donate them" and "These toys are horrible! They might be unsafe! And they're _plastic!_ *insert gasp here* Ugh! I can't keep these in MY home! I'm going to donate them.." the latter being the attitude I've heard so frequently. Especially with the rash of MIC recalls in the past few months.

It almost makes me wonder if people donate things because it makes them feel less guilty about throwing things away, or feel better about the environment.. or what? Because a lot of the time it doesn't seem like they really care that what they're giving away isn't that useful, or even safe. Its like people think that those who thrift shop will always be thankful for whatever they get, no matter what condition its in.

Where thats probably true.. it shouldn't have to be. Poor people deserve nice things too.

And you'd be surprised at the things people donate..







Broken things rank high on the list of things that get donated. Tax breaks for broken radios, cars with no wheels and clothes with rips and holes in it..

I know someone that specifically told me she gave all the recalled toys on the last list to Goodwill. Because, "Someone out there that doesn't have any toys could really use them!"


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nature* 
If you think they're so crappy, why donate them for families struggling financially? Would you donate "crappy" clothes too?


There are plenty of toys and clothes that *I* don't want for assorted reasons. Why trash them if someone *else* would like them and use them? If they're not dangerous, then I don't see the harm.

I donate lots of clothes that aren't my style or what-have-you. Should I not donate "out of style" clothes?

My theory is that if someone else wants them AND a worthy organization can make a little $$ off of them... then it's a win win situation.

-Angela


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## gingerbane (Jun 10, 2007)

Wow Nature, I think you need to hang out with some new people if you're hearing that attitude too frequently. It would drive me insane to be around people saying such things constantly.

I love to go to thrift stores. I was raised that route and am happy to find things other people gave because they didn't want them. As a consumer, I don't care why they donated them, I'm just glad to have access to them. Now, if I had to hear what your hearing all the time, I would start hanging out with some other people.


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## Bay Area Babe (May 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *prettypixels* 
The Salvation Army is no longer taking used toy donations at all, which sucks, because I have a ton of very NOT CRAPPY toys that we are not using that I was taking to donate. Now I don't know what to do with them. It *would* be nice to get the tiny tax break from donating to the Salvation Army.

Is there a women & children's shelter you can donate them to? Any other family friendly non-profits in the area? I donated a bunch of my son's baby toys and other goodies to a local community pregnancy center.

To the OT - from what I've seen in the malls and in my friend's houses, there is no shortage of people buying MIC and plastic toys!


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## red17 (May 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nature* 
... going to donate them" and "These toys are horrible! They might be unsafe! And they're _plastic!_ *insert gasp here* Ugh! I can't keep these in MY home! I'm going to donate them.." the latter being the attitude I've heard so frequently. Especially with the rash of MIC recalls in the past few months.

... Because a lot of the time it doesn't seem like they really care that what they're giving away isn't that useful, or even safe.

And you'd be surprised at the things people donate..







Broken things rank high on the list of things that get donated. Tax breaks for broken radios, cars with no wheels and clothes with rips and holes in it..

I know someone that specifically told me she gave all the recalled toys on the last list to Goodwill. Because, "Someone out there that doesn't have any toys could really use them!"









1. It is terrible for someone who knows a toy is on the recall list to donate it, especially ones that are toxic and/or used by small children. An unsafe toy is just that, UNSAFE for any child.

2. Many people do not care what they are giving away. It is out of their home, out of sight, and normally not given much thought at all. Face it, no one anguishes over what they donate unless for some reason they want to look good.

3. Just because a toy is plastic doesn't mean it has to be bad. Toys made of recycled plastic does keep landfills from completely overflowing. If you don't want it, don't buy it. But, it is not an evil thing for someone to donate it even if they prefer not to use it.

4. When I donate something to a thrift store, it is not new. I simply cannot afford it. Besides, most thrift stores by me have unrealistic prices on items that I can find at Ross or Target for just about the same price. They definately are not cheap.


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## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

I'm lost here. If there is a market for the toys then they will be sold. If YOU don't want to buy them then don't. If someone else wants to buy them then let them.

I think I must be missing the point here but I have no clue why you are bothered by what is on sale at your local thrift store.


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## kittygrrl523 (May 27, 2006)

I think it's pretty horrible to knowingly donate something that has officially been recalled....but if the toy is just not desirable to mama or child for some reason then I don't see why it shouldn't be donated, regardless of where it was produced. I'm not a rich woman, I shop in thrift stores, and I have a high quality standard...I don't just buy anyone's "crappy" toys just because the price is right...I think it's all about choices. There are plenty of people with money who don't care at all about MIC and then there are people on budgets who maybe save up a bit more (or give specific gift ideas to grandparents...thanks mom and dad for all X's awesome SAFE toys) to purchase the stuff I feel is a better quality.

I think it would be awesome if instead of being mad that people are donating MIC we all got mad that the quality of products taken in by U.S. consumers in general is so low. Our government chooses not to take action against products and manufacturing practices that might be dangerous...instead they wait until actual harm has occured. To me, that is the real outrage. Food for thought found here: http://www.amazon.com/Exposed-Chemis...0247574&sr=8-1


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *verde* 
I hope this is the correct place to post this. If not, mods, then move it to the appropriate place.

I'm a thrift store queen. I check out the thrift store about once a week. You would not believe the amount of things in my house that came from the thrift store.









For the winter holidays my 28 mos. old DD's big gift was a wooden kitchen and it's really cute. I've picked up lots of funstuff for the kitchen from the thrift store: a tiny little pot, an little cast iron fry pan, some tin dishes.

Lately I've noticed a HUGE appearance of toy dishes, especially tea sets, from China. I will guess the donors of these toy dishes don't want their children to be at risk because the dishes were made from China. That's fine. So my question is:

*WHY DONATE THEM TO THE THRIFT STORE??????*

Exactly what is the thinking here?? I don't want MY children to be at risk but it's OK for someone else's children to be at risk?

A lot of the people who patronize the thrift stores in the area where I live are new immigrants who don't speak much English. I do not mean to sound patronizing but I worry that they are not aware of the publicity about the toys from China. So I feel like there's something terribly WRONG about this situation.

Am I overreacting???

No you are not.

This really irritates me as well.

People get all up in arms when the well to do imply that welfare mothers don't deserve health care for their kids, or that they are a drain on society, but it's ok for those of us who can afford to keep poisoned toys away from our kids to donate them to people who either don't know, or don't care?

I find this appalling.

Even if they don't care, how could anyone with a conscience do that?

If a large company does something like that, there is an outcry, but if a thrifty mom does it because they _can't see throwing something away,_ then it's _ok?_ Isn't that exactly the same excuse a large company would use? _Well, we'd be wasting money if we disposed of that toxic waste properly when we an just dump it in this lake over here for free without anyone knowing about it.









_It's a question of right and wrong. If you know it probably isn't safe for your child, then it isn't safe to donate it so someone else can possibly give it to their child. Period.


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## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *grumpybear* 
Because people like me who are not on the anti-MIC bandwagon may buy them.

Yup...if they haven't been recalled, I don't see why it matters. I personally don't boycott all MIC toys, and I think the "toy scare" has been way overblown.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nature* 
Because this is MDC, the issue goes even further than just MIC toys. But all plastic and or cheap toys in general. Its the same thing. Personally, I could care less about the MIC craze. However it is a bit unnerving to see everyone dumping what they lovingly call on millions of threads, their "crappy toys" at thrift stores. If you think they're so crappy, why donate them for families struggling financially? Would you donate "crappy" clothes too?

Its the whole attitude I find disturbing.

Well, I prefer creative, open-ended toys for dd. We don't buy a lot of plastic. I can't even be in a room with a toy that makes noise--they make me want to claw my eyes out. So, a "Chicken Dance Elmo" might be "crappy" to me (though I probably wouldn't use that word)--but for another family, who prefers battery-operated toys, seeing a cheap one of these at the thrift store might make their child's day. If people get us lots of plastic, battery-operated stuff, I'll probably donated...but, as they say, one man's trash is another man's treasure. There are plenty of clothes that I like that someone else wouldn't, and vice versa. I think unwanted items in good condition (so long as they don't pose an actual danger, i.e., haven't been recalled) should ALWAYS get a chance to find a new home rather than just ended up in a landfill.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
There are plenty of toys and clothes that *I* don't want for assorted reasons. Why trash them if someone *else* would like them and use them? If they're not dangerous, then I don't see the harm.

I donate lots of clothes that aren't my style or what-have-you. Should I not donate "out of style" clothes?

My theory is that if someone else wants them AND a worthy organization can make a little $$ off of them... then it's a win win situation.

-Angela

Of course, I could have just said







: to alegna and saved myself the trouble.


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## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
No you are not.

This really irritates me as well.

People get all up in arms when the well to do imply that welfare mothers don't deserve health care for their kids, or that they are a drain on society, but it's ok for those of us who can afford to keep poisoned toys away from our kids to donate them to people who either don't know, or don't care?

I find this appalling.

Even if they don't care, how could anyone with a conscience do that?

If a large company does something like that, there is an outcry, but if a thrifty mom does it because they _can't see throwing something away,_ then it's _ok?_ Isn't that exactly the same excuse a large company would use? _Well, we'd be wasting money if we disposed of that toxic waste properly when we an just dump it in this lake over here for free without anyone knowing about it.









_It's a question of right and wrong. If you know it probably isn't safe for your child, then it isn't safe to donate it so someone else can possibly give it to their child. Period.









But why are "Made in China" toys automatically unsafe or toxic? There's no evidence that they are (barring specifically recalled toys). I buy MIC toys. I don't like a lot of plastic or batteries for other reasons (I think the toys tend to be less creative, don't last as long, etc.); other people do, as I said. Toy dishes made in China--I wouldn't give buying them a second thought, if I like the set. So every toy made in China should be dumped in a landfill, rather than going to a kid who might really like it and whose parents might have absolutely no qualms about buying it? That makes no sense to me.


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## verde (Feb 11, 2007)

Quote:

This time of year, many people donate stuff because their kids got too many holiday toys and they need to give away the old ones to make room for the new ones, or because it's been long enough to see that their DC don't like some of the "new" toys and want to declutter their houses of what the kids aren't playing with anyway.

Are you SURE there are more MIC toys now than there were last January? Or are there just more toys now than there were in October?
Usually I'd agree with you Ruthla but this year it's definitely different. It's not just "crappy" toys or old toys that have appeared, it's an unusually high number of brand new toys, many in original boxes and cellophane -- especially tea sets and toy dishes MIC. I've found three sets that still have the gift tags on them. Somewhere out there, an Ashley, a Morgan, and a Zoe no longer have their brand new tea sets.

Personally I'm in the middle re: MIC toys. I'm not so worried if it's something DD is not likely to put in her mouth. But if it could go in her mouth then I prefer to be safe. That's why I noticed the sheer number of the toy dishes that suddenly appeared. (When I was a student nurse I saw the treatment kids received for lead poisoning and it's really painful.)

There has been a lot of discussion on MDC about toy recalls and whether parents want to discard all the toys MIC. I checked out a few of the recall websites and was amazed at the length of the list. I can understand why parents might choose to simply get rid of all questionable toys. The question is what to do with those toys.

Quote:

Better there than in a landfill. Let parents make a choice.
I agree with that as long as it's a SAFE toy. To answer D_McG's question, my specific concern is that people are knowingly donating toys that they themselves are concerned about in order to get rid of them quick and easy. I think that's immoral. It's one thing if people choose to buy toys MIC for whatever reason; it's another if they decide toys MIC are unsafe and yet give them to a place where others can buy those same toys. Where is the consciences?

I am NOT talking about plastic toys or used toys or unwanted toys. In this thread, those are red herrings.

I do not understand the logic that it's better to have a toxic toy in the thrift store then in the landfill. To me that is more dangerous because in the end it will still wind up in the landfill AND, in addition, possibly harm a child.

I don't find the argument about the market i.e. that there's always someone will buy them ect ect persuasive at all. We all know that markets are manipulated; they are not "free." Just look at the cigarette industry.

Quote:

I think it would be awesome if instead of being mad that people are donating MIC we all got mad that the quality of products taken in by U.S. consumers in general is so low. Our government chooses not to take action against products and manufacturing practices that might be dangerous...instead they wait until actual harm has occurred. To me, that is the real outrage.
I agree with that mostly but I still think people should realize there's a domino effect in one's actions. Getting rid of toys that concern you is fine. Doing so by putting someone else's child at risk is not fine.


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## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *verde* 
I agree with that as long as it's a SAFE toy. To answer D_McG's question, my specific concern is that people are knowingly donating toys that they themselves are concerned about in order to get rid of them quick and easy. I think that's immoral. It's one thing if people choose to buy toys MIC for whatever reason; it's another if they decide toys MIC are unsafe and yet give them to a place where others can buy those same toys. Where is the consciences?

Okay, so you have people like me...I have no problem with MIC toys in general (except recalled items), although I do have very specific tastes in what I like for dd, for other reasons. So, if I got a bunch of plastic dish sets or food sets MIC, I would probably donate them--not b/c they're MIC, but b/c dd already has a ton of wooden food and dishes (some MIC!) which is more durable and therefore has no need for more of the same. So it would be okay if *I* donate the dishes? What about my next-door-neighbor, who has, IMO, an irrational fear of MIC toys due to the media hype--let's say it's the same set of food and dishes, with no recalls or evidence that these are actually unsafe.

The problem I have with chucking the stuff out is the lack of evidence for their actually being unsafe. I actually think the same is true of plastics, though you say it's a red herring. There are plenty of mamas on MDC who believe ALL plastics are toxic, not just PVCs, phthalates, etc. But I know plenty of mamas IRL who think the "toxic plastic" idea is bunk--and specifically choose plastic toys for their children because their cheaper, easy to replace, etc. And I'm not talking about people who don't have the resources to make informed choices. I microwave my tupperware. There are some mamas here who think both microwaves and tupperware are toxic (particularly the combination of the two), and would not use them in their home. Fine--but I would much rather see their used microwaves and tupperware go a thrift store, so that someone like me can buy them and save resources.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *verde* 
I agree with that as long as it's a SAFE toy. To answer D_McG's question, my specific concern is that people are knowingly donating toys that they themselves are concerned about in order to get rid of them quick and easy. I think that's immoral. It's one thing if people choose to buy toys MIC for whatever reason; it's another if they decide toys MIC are unsafe and yet give them to a place where others can buy those same toys. Where is the consciences?

Scenario A: someone donates a MIC toy to the thrift shop because it's something their child doesn't enjoy playing with.

Scenario B: someone donates the exact same MIC toy to the thrift shop because they refuse to allow MIC toys into their home.

It seems to me that you're saying that Scenario A is okay but Scenario B isn't, but the risk to the thrift-store-consumer hasn't increased any; it's the same exact toy! It's not on a recall list. The donator may have a philosophical opposition to owning MIC toys, but may choose to let others make their own decision. This is _completely_ different from knowingly donating a recalled toy to the thrift store, yet for some reason you're villainizing them the same way.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
Scenario A: someone donates a MIC toy to the thrift shop because it's something their child doesn't enjoy playing with.

Scenario B: someone donates the exact same MIC toy to the thrift shop because they refuse to allow MIC toys into their home.

It seems to me that you're saying that Scenario A is okay but Scenario B isn't, but the risk to the thrift-store-consumer hasn't increased any; it's the same exact toy! It's not on a recall list. The donator may have a philosophical opposition to owning MIC toys, but may choose to let others make their own decision. This is _completely_ different from knowingly donating a recalled toy to the thrift store, yet for some reason you're villainizing them the same way.









:

Well put.

-Angela


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

because alot of people (like me) dont belive in no plastic or no MIc, and also arn't scared of the lead issue.


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## Nature (Mar 12, 2005)

For me its more about the attitude. I mean, look at some of the threads we've had on here. Some people look down on those who buy MIC, and those who buy plastic. How many threads have you seen where the person says something like, "My kids love their plastic Little People toys







*insert ducking smilie here that I'm too lazy to find right now* "

They write it that way because on MDC its a pretty shameful thing to admit that not only do you not really care about boycotting MIC toys, but you also don't care about plastics.

If the people here look down on me for buying plastic toys.. then why do they keep donating it to thrift stores? They look down on people, and then they keep giving them the "crappy" toys.

And yes, I realize that my rant is kinda not exactly what the OP is ranting about. So its okay, I'll be the red herring. LOL


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nature* 
For me its more about the attitude. I mean, look at some of the threads we've had on here. Some people look down on those who buy MIC, and those who buy plastic. How many threads have you seen where the person says something like, "My kids love their plastic Little People toys







*insert ducking smilie here that I'm too lazy to find right now* "

They write it that way because on MDC its a pretty shameful thing to admit that not only do you not really care about boycotting MIC toys, but you also don't care about plastics.

If the people here look down on me for buying plastic toys.. then why do they keep donating it to thrift stores? They look down on people, and then they keep giving them the "crappy" toys.

And yes, I realize that my rant is kinda not exactly what the OP is ranting about. So its okay, I'll be the red herring. LOL

i agree with you, but im kinda glad they are donating their "crap" though







ds has got some fabulous new toys lately.


----------



## MissSJ (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
Scenario A: someone donates a MIC toy to the thrift shop because it's something their child doesn't enjoy playing with.

Scenario B: someone donates the exact same MIC toy to the thrift shop because they refuse to allow MIC toys into their home.

It seems to me that you're saying that Scenario A is okay but Scenario B isn't, but the risk to the thrift-store-consumer hasn't increased any; it's the same exact toy! It's not on a recall list. The donator may have a philosophical opposition to owning MIC toys, but may choose to let others make their own decision. This is _completely_ different from knowingly donating a recalled toy to the thrift store, yet for some reason you're villainizing them the same way.









: and to every other post expressing the same ideas.

There are many people who enjoy and even prefer plastic items, MIC items and other types of items that others may consider dangerous or inappropriate for some other reasons. It is up to each consumer to purchase items that they feel are appropriate for their family.

I think when shopping at a thrift store it is reasonable to expect to see mainstream items, it seems to me it would be unusual to find a slew of made in America/Europe/any where but China wooden toys dyed with vegetable dye in most places (you know what I mean - the crunchier toys). It is unusual to see these types of items in most homes around here.

I just donated some plastic toys that were MIC to a local foster care agency. I did not do so because I thought the toys were too unsafe for my children but OK for those _poor, disadvantaged_ foster kids. I donated them because they were nice toys that don't get played with or I don't prefer my dcs to have, they are toys I feel other children can safely enjoy. If some of the foster parents do not feel the toys are acceptable for the dcs in their care then they are free to not choose to take those toys.

BTW, I don't think of the foster children as "poor, disadvantaged" as I said above. I chose that wording because it seems some posters feel that people donate items and don't care about the people who may be getting them because the donaters are looking down on them. I don't think this is the case in most cases.


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## Marcimama (Jan 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nature* 
However it is a bit unnerving to see everyone dumping what they lovingly call on millions of threads, their "crappy toys" at thrift stores. If you think they're so crappy, why donate them for families struggling financially? Would you donate "crappy" clothes too?

Its the whole attitude I find disturbing.

I am pondering the same thing. I have a whole sac full of toys that are plastic (which we are moving away from as a family) but I don't know what I should do with them! I feel wasteful just throwing them away, but I feel like I am giving poor quality toys to people that don't know better. If I wouldn't want my dd to have them, why would I give them to anyone else??? What should I do with them???


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marcimama* 
I am pondering the same thing. I have a whole sac full of toys that are plastic (which we are moving away from as a family) but I don't know what I should do with them! I feel wasteful just throwing them away, but I feel like I am giving poor quality toys to people that don't know better. If I wouldn't want my dd to have them, why would I give them to anyone else??? What should I do with them???

then dont think of them as poor quality toys in general.......... just because you think that way for your family, it does not mean everyone does. I certainly do not belive it and I think you are wasteful and mean by not donating them.


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## verde (Feb 11, 2007)

Well Mamas, you are absolutely within your rights to buy toys MIC if you so choose. I'm not sure how much more evidence you want that the toys are unsafe or how you can conclude that the fear about toys MIC is overblown or exaggerated.

Consider these facts:

At least 25 million toys MIC were recalled last year

China has some of the worst industrial pollution in the world. Since 2001, the year that began their economic expansion, they have had a 40% increase in the number of children born with birth defects because of the toxic runoff in their streams and rivers and the air pollution.

Korean officials complain that the industrial pollution from China is affecting their country's air and water.

Factory workers in China work under some of the worst conditions and have few rights. Whistle-blowers are fired on the spot. Workers at some factories have complained that they haven't been paid in months and the gov't officials back the factory owners, not the workers.

Although for years preceding the completion of the Three Gorges Dam, Chinese environmentalists complained that the Dam would cause vast environmental damage, they were routinely ignored by the Chinese government. Now that the dam is complete the gov't has admitted that, yes, the dam will cause a lot more environmental damage than they had originally thought and they will have to relocate 5 million people because of that damage.

The Chinese government has rampant corruption.

If you don't think any of this affects how toys are made in China, well, then I guess no amount of evidence can do that.

Carry on with your choices and peace be with you.


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

I really dont care about the facts or research, nor do you need to try and "save" me or my children by posting it.

I will NEVER veiw toys or plastics that way, and will never stop buying them. So you can veiw them how you want, but please, dont be wasteful and just throw them out instead of donating them to people who will actually use and enjoy them.

Also dont look down on people because we don't think the same way as you, we dont need saving and we dont need you to police our purchases or how we should provide for our children.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *verde* 
Well Mamas, you are absolutely within your rights to buy toys MIC if you so choose. I'm not sure how much more evidence you want that the toys are unsafe or how you can conclude that the fear about toys MIC is overblown or exaggerated.

Consider these facts:

At least 25 million toys MIC were recalled last year

China has some of the worst industrial pollution in the world. Since 2001, the year that began their economic expansion, they have had a 40% increase in the number of children born with birth defects because of the toxic runoff in their streams and rivers and the air pollution.

Korean officials complain that the industrial pollution from China is affecting their country's air and water.

Factory workers in China work under some of the worst conditions and have few rights. Whistle-blowers are fired on the spot. Workers at some factories have complained that they haven't been paid in months and the gov't officials back the factory owners, not the workers.

Although for years preceding the completion of the Three Gorges Dam, Chinese environmentalists complained that the Dam would cause vast environmental damage, they were routinely ignored by the Chinese government. Now that the dam is complete the gov't has admitted that, yes, the dam will cause a lot more environmental damage than they had originally thought and they will have to relocate 5 million people because of that damage.

The Chinese government has rampant corruption.

If you don't think any of this affects how toys are made in China, well, then I guess no amount of evidence can do that.

Carry on with your choices and peace be with you.

As someone who is chemically sensitive, plastic scares the hell out of me, and I could never with a clear conscience just pawn it off on someone else's child. Anyone who says they think it's bad and then turns around and gives it to someone else is walking a moral tightrope, imo. If you _truly_ don't think there is anything wrong with plastic, _and you use it yourself,_ I don't think you have any moral ambiguity.







I can't say I understand it, but at least it isn't hypocritical.


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## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marcimama* 
I am pondering the same thing. I have a whole sac full of toys that are plastic (which we are moving away from as a family) but I don't know what I should do with them! I feel wasteful just throwing them away, but I feel like I am giving poor quality toys to people that don't know better. If I wouldn't want my dd to have them, why would I give them to anyone else??? What should I do with them???

Though I believe your heart is in the right place, I find this attitude a little condescending. Why do you think people who shop at thrift stores "don't know any better"? There are many people on this thread who say they shop at thrift stores and have no problem with MIC or plastic toys--they are not stupid or uneducated. Not having a lot of money doesn't mean you "don't know any better", nor does shopping at a thrift store necessarily mean that you are "poor."


----------



## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
If you _truly_ don't think there is anything wrong with plastic, _and you use it yourself,_ I don't think you have any moral ambiguity.







I can't say I understand it, but at least it isn't hypocritical.


I guess I fall in that category. I have got rid of zero toys for DS. If I saw a specific toy that had lead I would get rid of it, but most of the ones I have seen we don't have.

If we got rid of ALL his Plastic and/or MIC toys, he would have about 3 toys left.









Don't get me wrong, I actually prefer wooden and quality things that are not MIC, but they are VERY much out of our budget and we have been blessed with a lot of hand me down and/or yard sale toys, so we take what we can get.

DS did get the Magic Cabin Plan City set, and it breaks my heart that he isn't even very interested in it, especially since it took 4 families to buy him the stuff as a joint gift b/c of the price.









Question for those of you who think ALL MIC *and* Plastic toys are bad...what should those of us who have such toys do with them? Just throw them in the trash? That almost seems blasphemous to me, LOL.


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karina5* 
I guess I fall in that category. I have got rid of zero toys for DS. If I saw a specific toy that had lead I would get rid of it, but most of the ones I have seen we don't have.

If we got rid of ALL his Plastic and/or MIC toys, he would have about 3 toys left.









Don't get me wrong, I actually prefer wooden and quality things that are not MIC, but they are VERY much out of our budget and we have been blessed with a lot of hand me down and/or yard sale toys, so we take what we can get.

DS did get the Magic Cabin Plan City set, and it breaks my heart that he isn't even very interested in it, especially since it took 4 families to buy him the stuff as a joint gift b/c of the price.









Question for those of you who think ALL MIC *and* Plastic toys are bad...what should those of us who have such toys do with them? Just throw them in the trash? That almost seems blasphemous to me, LOL.

we use plastics because they have texture and sensory input that wood just cant provide.

I even have *gasp!* the loud electronic plastic toys!! again, for sensory input.

The only toy we have removed from ds was one of the baby einsten blocks that got recalled, we sent it in, and got the replacement.


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## mercy589 (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NYCVeg* 
Though I believe your heart is in the right place, I find this attitude a little condescending. Why do you think people who shop at thrift stores "don't know any better"? There are many people on this thread who say they shop at thrift stores and have no problem with MIC or plastic toys--they are not stupid or uneducated. Not having a lot of money doesn't mean you "don't know any better", nor does shopping at a thrift store necessarily mean that you are "poor."

Yes. My problem with this whole thread is that most of you are assuming that people who shop at thrift stores are stupid and poor. They BUY the items, they have a CHOICE whether to buy the item or not. By donating you aren't forcing poor children to play with awful toys, you're saying that you don't want these items and giving the other people a chance to DECIDE if they would like to purchase your unwanted, used or not, items, therefore giving the thrift store some money for their good cause, and saving items from the landfil, isn't that the whole idea? Thats the way it works. Poor people aren't forced to shop there, and they probably could do the same things some of us do - get the bigger ticket nice items from Grandparents or pool together money to get the nicer stuff if they wanted to, or search garage sales and thrift shops for what they want (people have found nice wooden toys before, but again, its whatever you personally look for and choose to buy). As nice as it sounds, it would be STUPID to donate nice new wooden toys to thrift stores, who would buy them? It wouldn't be a deal, they'd be overpriced, etc, thrift stores are for recycling peoples used unwanted stuff.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karina5* 
I guess I fall in that category. I have got rid of zero toys for DS. If I saw a specific toy that had lead I would get rid of it, but most of the ones I have seen we don't have.

If we got rid of ALL his Plastic and/or MIC toys, he would have about 3 toys left.









Don't get me wrong, I actually prefer wooden and quality things that are not MIC, but they are VERY much out of our budget and we have been blessed with a lot of hand me down and/or yard sale toys, so we take what we can get.

DS did get the Magic Cabin Plan City set, and it breaks my heart that he isn't even very interested in it, especially since it took 4 families to buy him the stuff as a joint gift b/c of the price.









Question for those of you who think ALL MIC *and* Plastic toys are bad...what should those of us who have such toys do with them? Just throw them in the trash? That almost seems blasphemous to me, LOL.

That's the dilemma. Do you mail 'em all back to China? Add to the landfill? There isn't a good solution, really. But I would seriously throw them away before I would give them to someone else's kids if I believed they were dangerous, yk?


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## colobus237 (Feb 2, 2004)

When I donate things to Goodwill, I'm not foisting them upon unwilling poor people. I'm donating them to Goodwill to sell so that Goodwill will benefit and my house will be less cluttered. Should a person also not donate out-of-style clothes, ugly wall hangings, or 20-year-old convention coffee mugs? There's no accounting for taste. If someone wants to buy the stuff, it's a win-win.

If I had something I knew to be dangerous or unfit for human use, I wouldn't donate it. Beyond that, "crappy" is in the eye of the beholder.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
As long as the sets aren't recalled- yeah, I think you're overreacting.







But I still buy MIC stuff. I think the whole thing was overblown.

Seems *really* wasteful to throw all that stuff away just because you think that it might possibly have lead.

-Angela

I agree. I'm not concerned about MIC stuff, and wouldn't even think twice about donating some to a thrift store because I know if I'm not concerned about it, there are other parents out there who are not concerned as well.

Does the store make an effort to check for recalls on donated toys? They should. But beyond that, I'm not in the MIC=evil and dangerous camp, and think it's very wasteful to throw away toys that can be enjoyed by another child.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nature* 
For me its more about the attitude...If the people here look down on me for buying plastic toys.. then why do they keep donating it to thrift stores? They look down on people, and then they keep giving them the "crappy" toys.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *NYCVeg*
Though I believe your heart is in the right place, I find this attitude [that perhaps MIC toys should be discarded rather than donated] a little condescending. Why do you think people who shop at thrift stores "don't know any better"? There are many people on this thread who say they shop at thrift stores and have no problem with MIC or plastic toys--they are not stupid or uneducated. Not having a lot of money doesn't mean you "don't know any better", nor does shopping at a thrift store necessarily mean that you are "poor."

I guess you're damned if you do and damned if you don't, then -- the 1st quote above calls people who _do_ donate MIC toys condescending, and the 2nd quote calls people who _don't_ donate MIC toys condescending.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
I guess you're damned if you do and damned if you don't, then -- the 1st quote above calls people who _do_ donate MIC toys condescending, and the 2nd quote calls people who _don't_ donate MIC toys condescending.



















Just goes to show that you can never please ALL of the people ALL of the time...










-Angela


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *verde* 
Well Mamas, you are absolutely within your rights to buy toys MIC if you so choose. I'm not sure how much more evidence you want that the toys are unsafe or how you can conclude that the fear about toys MIC is overblown or exaggerated.

Consider these facts:

At least 25 million toys MIC were recalled last year

China has some of the worst industrial pollution in the world. Since 2001, the year that began their economic expansion, they have had a 40% increase in the number of children born with birth defects because of the toxic runoff in their streams and rivers and the air pollution.

Korean officials complain that the industrial pollution from China is affecting their country's air and water.

Factory workers in China work under some of the worst conditions and have few rights. Whistle-blowers are fired on the spot. Workers at some factories have complained that they haven't been paid in months and the gov't officials back the factory owners, not the workers.

Although for years preceding the completion of the Three Gorges Dam, Chinese environmentalists complained that the Dam would cause vast environmental damage, they were routinely ignored by the Chinese government. Now that the dam is complete the gov't has admitted that, yes, the dam will cause a lot more environmental damage than they had originally thought and they will have to relocate 5 million people because of that damage.

The Chinese government has rampant corruption.

If you don't think any of this affects how toys are made in China, well, then I guess no amount of evidence can do that.

Carry on with your choices and peace be with you.

I actually agree with you for the most part, and for me the humanitarian issues in China are enough to make me choose to support other countries' economies instead whenever possible, but I just don't make the leap from that philosophy to the idea that donating MIC toys = sinister. For me, it's an issue about which I'm willing to let other families make their own decisions. It sounds like you feel more strongly about the issue than I do -- perhaps your efforts would be better focused toward changing legislation rather than blowing off steam at people who donate MIC toys.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
I actually agree with you for the most part, and for me the humanitarian issues in China are enough to make me choose to support other countries' economies instead whenever possible, but I just don't make the leap from that philosophy to the idea that donating MIC toys = sinister.

And to take this a step further- if a major concern is not supporting the conditions in China, then wouldn't it be BETTER to keep the goods in the economy? That way people that want them can purchase them USED rather than new. Purchasing new would further increase the exports.

-Angela


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## colobus237 (Feb 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nature* 
They write it that way because on MDC its a pretty shameful thing to admit that not only do you not really care about boycotting MIC toys, but you also don't care about plastics.

If the people here look down on me for buying plastic toys.. then why do they keep donating it to thrift stores? They look down on people, and then they keep giving them the "crappy" toys.

Then I guess the solution is for people to stop thinking they know what's best for everyone. I'd put money on 90+% of MDC families having one or more plastic toys. We've got lots. My daughter is playing with plastic Duplos right this minute. While watching Diego. I'm not sorry.

Shoot, there is so much more to being a good parent than what substance your toys are made of (unless that substance is maybe heroin, or nitroglycerin), that it's not even really on the radar. I think this is kind of the "grade inflation" that gets promoted here...a concept like "no plastic toys" is espoused by a vocal minority, and bunches of people end up feeling less than because they don't hold to that concept, when in fact the number of people who do hold to it, much less judge others by it, are really very few.


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## felix23 (Nov 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
And to take this a step further- if a major concern is not supporting the conditions in China, then wouldn't it be BETTER to keep the goods in the economy? That way people that want them can purchase them USED rather than new. Purchasing new would further increase the exports.

-Angela


Yes this. If I buy dd toys (which I don't do too often), I usually buy them at a thrift store. I tell all of my relatives to buy her used toys. I don't have a problem with plastic toys, but I would rather buy them used then new to lessen the impact of toys being thrown away. So I am glad when I find new in package toys at thrift stores.


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## lexbeach (Mar 6, 2002)

Another option if people have toys that they don't want anymore (because they're plastic, MIC or whatever) is to Freecycle them. I'm not sure how active Freecycle is all over the country, but it is worth looking into to see if there is a group where you live. The main purpose of the group is to keep stuff out of the landfills and to keep people from buying new stuff when someone else would be happy to give them what they want (used) for free. I *love* freecycle. We have benefited from getting things and getting rid of things. And in this type of situation with the toys, you can specifically state, "these toys are made in China, they haven't been recalled *yet* but I don't feel comfortable having my kids play with them." I got rid of all of our Melissa and Doug toys this way, and there were a TON of people who wanted them. I also gave some little plastic dinosaurs (made of questionable plastic that was super off-gassy) to a college student who was looking for little plastic animals for an art project (I wouldn't have felt very good about giving them to a kid).

HTH!

Lex


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## tuppence (Feb 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marcimama* 
I have a whole sac full of toys that are plastic (which we are moving away from as a family) but I don't know what I should do with them! I feel wasteful just throwing them away, but I feel like I am giving poor quality toys to people that don't know better.

Okay, I haven't finished the thread but I had to respond to this...

You're worried about thrifting plastic toys that have not been recalled because someone might buy them because they just don't know any better? Please tell me that's not what you meant, because it sounds incredibly judgemental. I buy plastic toys for my son, as well as wooden and metal, and I'm fully aware of the issues with plastics and MIC. Just because someone doesn't make the same decision you do doesn't mean they're ignorant or foolish.


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *felix23* 
Yes this. If I buy dd toys (which I don't do to often), I usually buy them at a thrift store. I tell all of my relatives to buy her used toys. I don't have a problem with plastic toys, but I would rather buy them used then new to lessen the impact of toys being thrown away. So I am glad when I find new in package toys at thrift stores.









, I hate to buy ds new if i can find it used. toys can last a long time, theres no point in throwing them away.


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## Nature (Mar 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ccohenou* 
Then I guess the solution is for people to stop thinking they know what's best for everyone. I'd put money on 90+% of MDC families having one or more plastic toys. We've got lots. My daughter is playing with plastic Duplos right this minute. While watching Diego. I'm not sorry.

Shoot, there is so much more to being a good parent than what substance your toys are made of (unless that substance is maybe heroin, or nitroglycerin), that it's not even really on the radar. I think this is kind of the "grade inflation" that gets promoted here...a concept like "no plastic toys" is espoused by a vocal minority, and bunches of people end up feeling less than because they don't hold to that concept, when in fact the number of people who do hold to it, much less judge others by it, are really very few.

I like this post, and I tend to agree with you. Honestly, I often wonder how many people are lying when they write their crunchy status everywhere.







I stopped feeling guilty for our plastic toys awhile ago when I realized my daughter was not everyone on MDC's daughter... she is mine. And for HER, she loves her plastic toys.

That doesn't mean that others don't try to make me feel less-then when they can though.


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## ett (Oct 12, 2007)

Not all MIC toys are unsafe and not all made in the US/Europe toys are safe. I think it's fine to donate to a thrift shop as long as it has not been recalled. And many people donate toys that their children have outgrown, so it has nothing to do with the toy not being good enough for their own child.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ett* 
Not all MIC toys are unsafe and not all made in the US/Europe toys are safe. I think it's fine to donate to a thrift shop as long as it has not been recalled. And many people donate toys that their children have outgrown, so it has nothing to do with the toy not being good enough for their own child.

But I think the OP was specifically talking about people who say they are getting rid of them because they may not be safe.

_That_ is what I have a problem with. If you don't feel like they are unsafe, I have no problem with it. But _if you feel they may be unsafe and you donate them,_ there is a problem, imo. In that case, you are saying _they aren't good enough for my child, but who cares about yours?_ Big difference.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
But I think the OP was specifically talking about people who say they are getting rid of them because they may not be safe.

_That_ is what I have a problem with. If you don't feel like they are unsafe, I have no problem with it. But _if you feel they may be unsafe and you donate them,_ there is a problem, imo. In that case, you are saying _they aren't good enough for my child, but who cares about yours?_ Big difference.

But it's the SAME TOYS! If they're not proven unsafe, then I think it's fine personally.

-Angela


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
But I think the OP was specifically talking about people who say they are getting rid of them because they may not be safe.

_That_ is what I have a problem with. If you don't feel like they are unsafe, I have no problem with it. But _if you feel they may be unsafe and you donate them,_ there is a problem, imo. In that case, you are saying _they aren't good enough for my child, but who cares about yours?_ Big difference.

and we are saying we dont need you to make that decision for us, we arnt uneducated, and we dont care about the toys like you do.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
But it's the SAME TOYS! If they're not proven unsafe, then I think it's fine personally.

-Angela


Quote:


Originally Posted by *wonderwahine* 
and we are saying we dont need you to make that decision for us, we arnt uneducated, and we dont care about the toys like you do.

And what I'm saying, *and apparently what you are saying too,* is that it's all about attitude. I'm saying it's ok if you don't agree that they are dangerous, and *it's ok with me if you donate them because you don't think they are dangerous.
*
What I can't abide is someone who says they _are dangerous and they *won't* have them in their house,_ _*then*_ _they go and donate them__*so someone else* *will.*

_Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't call you names. I said it's hypocritical to say the toys are dangerous and then foist them off on someone else. If you don't think they are dangerous and you give them to someone else, then your conscience is clear, because you aren't taking something you believe to be dangerous and giving it to someone else, see?







:


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## mom2annika (Mar 30, 2006)

Lots of people do donate junk to Goodwill, especially ratty clothes, which become a liability because then GW has to pay to dispose of them. Liability is at the heart of the MIC issue too IMO. Some stores post signs, and most make at least some effort to screen out recalled toys.

I don't believe in a no-MIC policy, but when I saw those recall lists I absolutely ran through DD's toy bins. I found one suspicious Dora, but after multiple emails and phone calls got confirmation that it was NOT one of the recalled items. DD didn't miss it, but she was glad to get it back out of quarantine.

For someone that believes MIC = dangerous, maybe a better solution would be to take it to an Environmetal Recycling Center. Our local one takes old electronics, TV's, computer monitors, etc.


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
And what I'm saying, *and apparently what you are saying too,* is that it's all about attitude. I'm saying it's ok if you don't agree that they are dangerous, and *it's ok with me if you donate them because you don't think they are dangerous.
*
What I can't abide is someone who says they _are dangerous and they *won't* have them in their house,_ _*then*_ _they go and donate them__*so someone else* *will.*

_Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't call you names. I said it's hypocritical to say the toys are dangerous and then foist them off on someone else. If you don't think they are dangerous and you give them to someone else, then your conscience is clear, because you aren't taking something you believe to be dangerous and giving it to someone else, see?







:

and its better to put them in the landfill and cause more waste?

it is insulting and degrading to have you make our decisions for us, who cares if you think they are dangerous, you arnt the one who may want them, fine, but give them to people who might. And the truth is, the cold hard truth, regardless of whos research you choose to belive, is that unless they are recalled they are SAFE! so for you to throw out perfectly useable toys because you are on your high horse about it, is mean, and wasteful.


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wonderwahine* 
and its better to put them in the landfill and cause more waste?

I believe I already covered that in a previous post. I don't know of a perfect solution. But giving someone something you think is toxic is certainly not charity.









If you _intentionally_ dispose of something you _believe to be dangerous_ by giving it to _someone else,_ imo, that is _immoral.

_You can't tell me if it was a big corporation donating something they believed to be toxic to an unsuspecting group of people, you wouldn't deem _that_ immoral.

I honestly don't know what the solution is, but I cannot understand how anyone can justify giving something they think is toxic to someone else.







: That's the basic difference between _intentional_ and _accidental..







_


----------



## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
I believe I already covered that in a previous post. I don't know of a perfect solution. But giving someone something you think is toxic is certainly not charity.









If you _intentionally_ dispose of something you _believe to be dangerous_ by giving it to _someone else,_ imo, that is _immoral.

_You can't tell me if it was a big corporation donating something they believed to be toxic to an unsuspecting group of people, you wouldn't deem _that_ immoral.

I honestly don't know what the solution is, but I cannot understand how anyone can justify giving something they think is toxic to someone else.







: That's the basic difference between _intentional_ and _accidental..







_

in your little bubbles opinion it is toxic, but it isnt, and it is charity to donate it. and disposing of it doesnt keep it out of peoples hands, they will dumpster dive for stuff and still get it. So get off your high horse and just give the stuff away


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wonderwahine* 
in your little bubbles opinion it is toxic, but it isnt, and it is charity to donate it. and disposing of it doesnt keep it out of peoples hands, they will dumpster dive for stuff and still get it. So get off your high horse and just give the stuff away

You are still missing my point.

I said if you _believe it is toxic_ it is immoral to pass it on to someone else.

If you _don't believe_ it is toxic, then passing it on _is_ the thing to do.

BUT, _if you believe it is toxic and you pass it on,_ that is not charity.

It's about intent. It isn't charity to pass something on if you think it may not be healthy. My problem is with people who feel like it isn't good enough for their family but it's ok to foist it off on someone else's kid.










It isn't about the toys themselves. It's about the people, and their intentions.


----------



## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

to you it is immoral........ but its not, simple.


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wonderwahine* 
to you it is immoral........ but its not, simple.

OK, let's simplify.

If I let your child play in my shed, and I forget there is rat poison in there, and he eats it, I'm an idiot, but there was no intent.

But, if I let him in there knowing there is rat poison in there, that is _immoral.

_Now, if I can't read, and I think those things are peanut butter cookies, it's not immoral and there was no intent, it's just a tragic accident.

Now, with the toys, if I give them to you not realizing there is lead in them, there is no intent.

If I give them to you knowing there is lead in them, I am being immoral, because if I think they aren't good enough for my family, I shouldn't pass them on to someone else. If you insist you know the dangers and it's ok, well, then we can talk about grey areas, and maybe I could salve my conscience, maybe not.







If something happened to your child, I would still feel terribly guilty, no matter how many times you told me it was ok, because deep down, I believe it's immoral to pass those things on.

But, _if neither of us has any idea_ anything might be wrong with them, or _neither of us believes anything is wrong with them,_ then I can give them to you, and no big deal either way.

It's not exactly intentionally causing harm, but the _possibility_ of harm, and the fact that the person is _aware of this_ that bugs me.

The different beliefs I can accept. It's the differing beliefs and the intentional passing on of something you believe is dangerous that seems callous and wrong.


----------



## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

its a damn toy, not rat poison, just get over the fact that you and others here belive something that others do not, alot here believe formula is poison, but newsflash, its not, and some people on this board have to give it to their children to stop them from dying on breastmilk!

donate it or not, but dont think you are doing something right by not donating them. you are being wasteful and other things I cant say because of the UA by not donating perfectly good toys to people who can use them.


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wonderwahine* 
its a damn toy, not rat poison, just get over the fact that you and others here belive something that others do not, alot here believe formula is poison, but newsflash, its not, and some people on this board have to give it to their children to stop them from dying on breastmilk!

donate it or not, but dont think you are doing something right by not donating them. you are being wasteful and other things I cant say because of the UA by not donating perfectly good toys to people who can use them.


















The OP was talking about *people who donate the toys after deciding they are not safe for their family.

*It _isn't_ about the toys. It _isn't_ about the safety of the toys. It _isn't_ about the beliefs.

It _is_ about the intentions, and the fact that the person donating the toys thinks they are unsafe, but ok for someone else.







:


----------



## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
















The OP was talking about *people who donate the toys after deciding they are not safe for their family.

*It _isn't_ about the toys. It _isn't_ about the safety of the toys. It _isn't_ about the beliefs.

It _is_ about the intentions, and the fact that the person donating the toys thinks they are unsafe, but ok for someone else.







:

FOR THEIR FAMILY! then donate it to a family who does think it is safe.


----------



## Nature (Mar 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom2annika* 
Lots of people do donate junk to Goodwill, especially ratty clothes, which become a liability because then GW has to pay to dispose of them.

My Goodwill still sells the junk clothes, for the same prices as their good clothes.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wonderwahine* 
FOR THEIR FAMILY! then donate it to a family who does think it is safe.











I am not arguing about beliefs, I covered that already.

You are deliberately missing my point, I have already made it abundantly clear.


----------



## Nature (Mar 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wonderwahine* 
FOR THEIR FAMILY! then donate it to a family who does think it is safe.

Are there families out there that believe its safe to mouth and play with toys that are known to have high levels of lead in them?


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nature* 
Are there families out there that believe its safe to mouth and play with toys that are known to have high levels of lead in them?

so it would seem.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nature* 
Are there families out there that believe its safe to mouth and play with toys that are known to have high levels of lead in them?

#1. Not all kids mouth toys

#2. Do people really think that *every* MIC toy has dangerous levels of lead? I can buy the risk being higher, but every toy?

-Angela


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

I think the people donating probably have a house full of MIC toys and are just getting rid of old stuff they don't want anymore.


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nature* 
Are there families out there that believe its safe to mouth and play with toys that are known to have high levels of lead in them?

if they are recalled toys, they are proven to be unsafe, so no.

but i really dont care what my son is putting in his mouth these days, as long as hes putting something in his mouth.


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## felix23 (Nov 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
















The OP was talking about *people who donate the toys after deciding they are not safe for their family.

*It _isn't_ about the toys. It _isn't_ about the safety of the toys. It _isn't_ about the beliefs.

It _is_ about the intentions, and the fact that the person donating the toys thinks they are unsafe, but ok for someone else.







:

But people are just going to buy the stuff anyway, so it just makes sense to donate it instead of creating more waste. I hate Bratz, I don't want my dd exposed to them or playing with them, I don't think it would be good for her. When she got a bratz doll for a gift instead of throwing it in the garbage, I gave it to a lady I know who has no problem with her dd playing with Bratz. She was going to buy a bratz doll anyway, so why not give her the one I had? I don't think it is immoral at all to give away something that my family isn't comfortable with but other parents are.


----------



## Nature (Mar 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *felix23* 
But people are just going to buy the stuff anyway, so it just makes sense to donate it instead of creating more waste. I hate Bratz, I don't want my dd exposed to them or playing with them, I don't think it would be good for her. When she got a bratz doll for a gift instead of throwing it in the garbage, I gave it to a lady I know who has no problem with her dd playing with Bratz. She was going to buy a bratz doll anyway, so why not give her the one I had? I don't think it is immoral at all to give away something that my family isn't comfortable with but other parents are.

Totally OT, but not really... do you ever put down parents that "let" their children play with Bratz dolls, or talk about the morals of others that would purchase those dolls?


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *felix23* 
But people are just going to buy the stuff anyway, so it just makes sense to donate it instead of creating more waste. I hate Bratz, I don't want my dd exposed to them or playing with them, I don't think it would be good for her. When she got a bratz doll for a gift instead of throwing it in the garbage, I gave it to a lady I know who has no problem with her dd playing with Bratz. She was going to buy a bratz doll anyway, so why not give her the one I had? I don't think it is immoral at all to give away something that my family isn't comfortable with but other parents are.

But you never said you thought Bratz were dangerous.

You just said you weren't comfortable with them, and gave them to someone you know who is comfortable with them.

Are you uncomfortable with Bratz because of what they teach little girls about body image, or attitudes about women, or are you uncomfortable with them because you think they might contain lead?


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nature* 
Totally OT, but not really... do you ever put down parents that "let" their children play with Bratz dolls, or talk about the morals of others that would purchase those dolls?

And you are missing my point as well.

I never said you are immoral if you buy made in China toys.

What I said was _if you think they are dangerous, it is immoral to pass them on to someone else._

Huge difference.


----------



## MissSJ (Oct 23, 2005)

I totally get what both of you are saying, Bigeyes and Nature, you both make sense but you are both kind of saying two different, yet similar, things. Maybe you should just agree to sort of disagree?

I do find it amusing that Bigeyes' mood is set to "bitchy" and Nature's mood is set to "crabby".







*not meaning to make light of your moods, it is just amusing because of your "conversation" here today...


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *felix23* 
But people are just going to buy the stuff anyway, so it just makes sense to donate it instead of creating more waste. I hate Bratz, I don't want my dd exposed to them or playing with them, I don't think it would be good for her. When she got a bratz doll for a gift instead of throwing it in the garbage, I gave it to a lady I know who has no problem with her dd playing with Bratz. She was going to buy a bratz doll anyway, so why not give her the one I had? I don't think it is immoral at all to give away something that my family isn't comfortable with but other parents are.

AND... as a bonus- by passing on that bratz, you ensured that one less NEW one was purchased. Perhaps hitting the company in a tiny way in the pocketbook.

-Angela


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
And you are missing my point as well.

I never said you are immoral if you buy made in China toys.

What I said was _if you think they are dangerous, it is immoral to pass them on to someone else._

Huge difference.

and i still ask..... WHY! just because you think they are dangerous for your family, does not make it so.

Some people belive tv is toxic to their familys, some people ban disney and barbie because they are toxic to a young girls psyche, but it doesnt make it so for the rest of the world. so I fail to see where it is immoral to donate something that you are not using because of your belief system. IMO it is immoral to throw them away.


----------



## lexbeach (Mar 6, 2002)

Moderator here, stepping in to remind everyone to keep this debate *friendly* please.

I think everyone agrees that *toys that have been recalled should not be donated.* They should be sent back to the company that made them or otherwise disposed of (unless the family chooses to ignore the recall and keep the toy for themselves).

I can't see how donating MIC toys that have not been recalled is immoral. Everyone is free to make their own choices for their own families.

I know that I for one feel very strongly about the choices I've made for my family re: toys, but I can't imagine feeling strongly about the choices that other families make in regards to toys.

Please keep the User Agreement in mind when continuing this discussion









Thanks mamas,

Lex


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## felix23 (Nov 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nature* 
Totally OT, but not really... do you ever put down parents that "let" their children play with Bratz dolls, or talk about the morals of others that would purchase those dolls?


I don't care if someone else buys their children Bratz dolls. Not my kids, not my decision. The dolls don't work for my family, but they might work for another one. I can't decide what is morally right for someone else, only for myself. I don't think she has bad morals, just different ones then I do. I also gave away a chicken dance Elmo because I can't stand toys like that. My sister knew someone who was looking for one, so I let her have it. The lady was going to buy one anyway, so I let her have the one I didn't want.


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MissSJ* 
I do find it amusing that Bigeyes' mood is set to "bitchy" and Nature's mood is set to "crabby".

















:


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## felix23 (Nov 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
But you never said you thought Bratz were dangerous.

You just said you weren't comfortable with them, and gave them to someone you know who is comfortable with them.

Are you uncomfortable with Bratz because of what they teach little girls about body image, or attitudes about women, or are you uncomfortable with them because you think they might contain lead?


For *me personally* I do not think that they are safe for my dd to play with, I don't like the fact that they take a baby and put lots of make up on it. But my friend has no problem with that, so to her they are safe for her dd to play with. Her family, her choice. Unless they have been recalled, I don't think that they have lead.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MissSJ* 
I totally get what both of you are saying, Bigeyes and Nature, you both make sense but you are both kind of saying two different, yet similar, things. Maybe you should just agree to sort of disagree?

I do find it amusing that Bigeyes' mood is set to "bitchy" and Nature's mood is set to "crabby".







*not meaning to make light of your moods, it is just amusing because of your "conversation" here today...

Mine has to stay bitchy for all eternity, because they've removed that option. If I change it, I can't get it back.









I'm still waiting on my senior title to show up as requested. _Rantastic._


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *felix23* 
For *me personally* I do not think that they are safe for my dd to play with, I don't like the fact that they take a baby and put lots of make up on it. But my friend has no problem with that, so to her they are safe for her dd to play with. Her family, her choice. Unless they have been recalled, I don't think that they have lead.

See.

That's what I'm saying. People keep putting words in my mouth. I never said you were immoral for passing something on if you didn't believe it was dangerous.









Note to mods, if you're reading, again, I reiterate, I never said people were immoral for donating. I said people were immoral for donating _if_ they believed the toys were toxic. Nothing disrespectful about it, I'm just tired of people reading something into my words that I didn't say.







:


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

but why is it immoral to donate if you and your family perceive them to be dangerous? i still maintain it is more immoral to throw them out instead of donating to someone who believes differently to you.

I think the same thing with formula samples.


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## danotoyou2 (Jan 19, 2007)

I think it's not all about the 'dangers' of MIC toys. For some, it's about not supporting a country with "questionable" human rights history. For others, it can be the fad of wooden toys (yes, I'm into wooden toys, too, but it IS also a fad with some people). In those cases, I think it's completely reasonable to donate those toys.


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## TripMom (Aug 26, 2005)

I have a similar version of this re car seats. I recently moved my kids from their Brittax convertible seats to a 5 pt. harness booster. 2 of the convertible car seats were seats I bought when DS #1 was born - i.e. 5 years old. I had checked them thru airlines multiple times - which I am now told is a major no-no? And the seats have been thrown up, disassembled and assembled many many times. I put those 2 seats in the trash - as I did NOT think they were safe anymore. I did NOT try to donate them or sell them . . . if the seats aren't safe for my kids - they aren't safe for anyone elses either . . .


----------



## felix23 (Nov 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
See.

That's what I'm saying. People keep putting words in my mouth. I never said you were immoral for passing something on if you didn't believe it was dangerous.









Note to mods, if you're reading, again, I reiterate, I never said people were immoral for donating. I said people were immoral for donating _if_ they believed the toys were toxic. Nothing disrespectful about it, I'm just tired of people reading something into my words that I didn't say.







:


In my family we try to only eat organic fruits and veggies. I believe the regular kind are full of toxins. But my sister has no problem not eating organic produce. When my dh recieved a box of regular fruits for Christmas, I gave them to my sister because for my family organic is the safest way to go. It would have been really wasteful to throw the fruit out when I knew that my sister not only would eat them, but wanted them.


----------



## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TripMom* 
I have a similar version of this re car seats. I recently moved my kids from their Brittax convertible seats to a 5 pt. harness booster. 2 of the convertible car seats were seats I bought when DS #1 was born - i.e. 5 years old. I had checked them thru airlines multiple times - which I am now told is a major no-no? And the seats have been thrown up, disassembled and assembled many many times. I put those 2 seats in the trash - as I did NOT think they were safe anymore. I did NOT try to donate them or sell them . . . if the seats aren't safe for my kids - they aren't safe for anyone elses either . . .

but you were actually right in throwing them out (although, did you cut the straps and smash it with a sledge hammer before disposing, otherwise they wern't really thrown away and someone could be using them right now). It is recommended to never pass on car seats, do not hand them down, or donate them if they are used, its just not supposed to be done, its not a question of beliefs.

toys are not car seats, they are not responsible for saving your childs life in a 60mph head on collision, they are toys.


----------



## TripMom (Aug 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wonderwahine* 
but you were actually right in throwing them out (although, did you cut the straps and smash it with a sledge hammer before disposing, otherwise they wern't really thrown away and someone could be using them right now). It is recommended to never pass on car seats, do not hand them down, or donate them if they are used, its just not supposed to be done, its not a question of beliefs.

toys are not car seats, they are not responsible for saving your childs life in a 60mph head on collision, they are toys.

No. No sledge hammer.


----------



## Nature (Mar 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
And you are missing my point as well.

I never said you are immoral if you buy made in China toys.

What I said was _if you think they are dangerous, it is immoral to pass them on to someone else._

Huge difference.

Uh, no.. I'm not missing your point. Hence the reason why I listed it as an OT and it wasn't directed towards you.


----------



## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
If I give them to you knowing there is lead in them, I am being immoral, because if I think they aren't good enough for my family, I shouldn't pass them on to someone else.

Please show me where anyone in this thread has advocated donating toys that are known to contain lead.

Are you seriously saying that someone who chooses not to keep plastic toys in their home and instead donates those toys to goodwill is equivalent in your mind to someone donating known lead-containing items to goodwill?


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wonderwahine* 
but why is it immoral to donate if you and your family perceive them to be dangerous? i still maintain it is more immoral to throw them out instead of donating to someone who believes differently to you.

I think the same thing with formula samples.

I honestly don't know any other way to explain it to you.
I have agreed that we have differing views, and that I don't think it is immoral if you don't think it's harmful. I completely respect your right to play with all the MIC toys you want. Seriously.

But there is no way I would donate something I believed was harmful, any more than I would leave a used syringe in a wastebasket or on the floor, or rat poison out where children were playing. I just wouldn't. If you don't think that's immoral, fine. But I do.









Not once have I called you immoral, or stupid, or anything else. So stop telling me I'm looking down on you, or on my high horse. We have a difference of opinion. I explained my position. I did, more than once, and you continue to pretend you don't understand, or you ignore my point and say I'm wasteful. Now _I don't care about the environment because all those toys will go into a landfill.







_ I told you I don't know a perfect solution to the problem. I'm checking for unwritten MDC bylaws, and I can't find the one that says I have to offer a perfect solution for every problem I comment about.









Lighten up. I explained several times because I felt like you thought I was insulting you from what I read in your posts. You still seem to think I was somehow calling you names, and I wasn't. You truly seem to be deliberately misunderstanding my posts. You can use all the MIC stuff you want, I don't care. Really. But it will always bother me when someone claims to be socially conscious, tells me they think MIC is dangerous, then donates it so someone else can use it. That just doesn't make any sense.









I get your position. I understand. I simply don't agree.


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *felix23* 
In my family we try to only eat organic fruits and veggies. I believe the regular kind are full of toxins. But my sister has no problem not eating organic produce. When my dh recieved a box of regular fruits for Christmas, I gave them to my sister because for my family organic is the safest way to go. It would have been really wasteful to throw the fruit out when I knew that my sister not only would eat them, but wanted them.

Good point.

I would feel the same way. I'd let her have them, then years later if she got any kind of odd disease that could have been caused by toxins I'd be thinking in the back of my mind that it was my fault.


----------



## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

you are seriously comparing a toy to a used syringe?


----------



## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
But there is no way I would donate something I believed was harmful, any more than I would leave a used syringe in a wastebasket or on the floor, or rat poison out where children were playing.

I think this is the problem. Used syringes and rat poison are undeniably dangerous. But many people who are anti-MIC toys understand that it's a personal decision, and one that everyone is capable of making for themselves. Someone mentioned microwave ovens earlier in this thread, which I thought was a good point. Some people believe that microwaves are harmful and refuse to have them in their homes, but _at the same time_, they understand that not everyone feels that way, so they may choose to donate their unwanted microwaves and let others make their own decisions about whether to own them. This is completely different (in my opinion -- clearly not in yours) than donating an obviously, universally dangerous item.


----------



## Nature (Mar 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *felix23* 
I don't care if someone else buys their children Bratz dolls. Not my kids, not my decision. The dolls don't work for my family, but they might work for another one. I can't decide what is morally right for someone else, only for myself. I don't think she has bad morals, just different ones then I do. I also gave away a chicken dance Elmo because I can't stand toys like that. My sister knew someone who was looking for one, so I let her have it. The lady was going to buy one anyway, so I let her have the one I didn't want.

Thank you for answering honestly. It really was just an OT question that went along the same line of thinking I posted about originally, which was the positive or negative attitude of those that were donating and whether they were judgmental towards people about the very thing that they were donating to them.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
See.

That's what I'm saying. People keep putting words in my mouth. I never said you were immoral for passing something on if you didn't believe it was dangerous.









Note to mods, if you're reading, again, I reiterate, I never said people were immoral for donating. I said people were immoral for donating _if_ they believed the toys were toxic. Nothing disrespectful about it, I'm just tired of people reading something into my words that I didn't say.







:

I never put words in your mouth. I asked something OT to _someone else._

FTR, I didn't believe I was arguing against anyone here. I was discussing what I thought was interesting. I discuss _passionately_ yes, but I'm not crabby or bitchy.







I just hadn't changed my mood from a week ago when I *was* crabby. LOL I figure if I wait a few days I'll be that mood again so why bother overextending myself by changing it.


----------



## felix23 (Nov 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
Good point.

I would feel the same way. I'd let her have them, then years later if she got any kind of odd disease that could have been caused by toxins I'd be thinking in the back of my mind that it was my fault.










What is the difference between letting someone have fruit that you consider toxic and letting them have toys that you consider toxic?


----------



## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
Please show me where anyone in this thread has advocated donating toys that are known to contain lead.

Are you seriously saying that someone who chooses not to keep plastic toys in their home and instead donates those toys to goodwill is equivalent in your mind to someone donating known lead-containing items to goodwill?

this is the question asked in the OP

_Exactly what is the thinking here?? I don't want MY children to be at risk but it's OK for someone else's children to be at risk?

_And yes, I have seen that exact question asked, not in this thread, but elsewhere. _
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=744812

_And answers like this around the holidays and tax time if you google 'donation made in china toys'
http://groups.google.com/group/misc....096322678d3622
and apparently it's enough of a problem that the salvation army isn't taking toys.
http://sharonhr.blogspot.com/2007/12...e-no-more.html

Widely varying opinions. I'm ok with people disagreeing with me, I just don't like it when people put words in my mouth, yk? From what I can see the _donate them_ crowd is larger than the _don't do it_ crowd.








That's fine. Just don't misinterpret my position as looking down on you for your choice, that isn't at all what I said.

My problem is with the people who feel as I do, and then donate them anyway to some faceless stranger who may or may not know the dangers (or lack thereof.) And I don't look down on them either. I pity them instead, for their complete lack of empathy and concern for their fellow man, and how that must affect their daily life.


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

well if it was really true, my salvation army wouldnt be taking toys, but i know for a fact they are, we dropped some off to them in december, this month and we have brought brand new things that had just been stocked on their shevles.


----------



## Nature (Mar 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wonderwahine* 
well if it was really true, my salvation army wouldnt be taking toys, but i know for a fact they are, we dropped some off to them in december, this month and we have brought brand new things that had just been stocked on their shevles.

They are different in lots of areas. I know some mamas close to me and their hometown thrift stores like goodwill don't take them either. But mine in town does.


----------



## felix23 (Nov 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wonderwahine* 
well if it was really true, my salvation army wouldnt be taking toys, but i know for a fact they are, we dropped some off to them in december, this month and we have brought brand new things that had just been stocked on their shevles.


There were a bunch of toys at my SA two weeks ago too. Maybe some have just stopped accepting toys.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nature* 
Thank you for answering honestly. It really was just an OT question that went along the same line of thinking I posted about originally, which was the positive or negative attitude of those that were donating and whether they were judgmental towards people about the very thing that they were donating to them.

I never put words in your mouth. I asked something OT to _someone else._

FTR, I didn't believe I was arguing against anyone here. I was discussing what I thought was interesting. I discuss _passionately_ yes, but I'm not crabby or bitchy.







I just hadn't changed my mood from a week ago when I *was* crabby. LOL I figure if I wait a few days I'll be that mood again so why bother overextending myself by changing it.



















OK, then.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *felix23* 
What is the difference between letting someone have fruit that you consider toxic and letting them have toys that you consider toxic?

Because as you know, on a natural family living board, what we all consider toxic when it comes to food generally gets us a membership card to the tinfoil hat club.

Like I said, I don't argue with them about it anymore. But if they get any kind of illness I can track back to it, I'll be killing myself with the guilt. But I gave the same example with the toys. If I said I thought they were toxic, and you said you didn't and would really like them, I'd give them to you and then I'd worry myself sick if anything happened to you. I'd still feel bad about it.

Since I don't buy the fruit, and it was a hypothetical, I won't have to worry about it. I'm really sensitive to chemicals so you aren't going to see that stuff in my house and it won't be an issue.







And that may be coloring my view, as well. Because so many things really affect me, it's horrifying to me that anyone would knowingly give someone else something that could mess up their neurological system or their endocrine system. Think of it like cigarettes or something. Are you horrified at the idea that I might give your kid tobacco? That's how I feel about _any substance_ that might mess up the neurological or endocrine system, and if a child is too young to have a say in it, that's not cool. Adults? You're at least old enough to assess your own risk, yk? But heavy metals are bad news.









Should I start posting in pig Latin? Because I'm pretty sure I've spelled this out about a gazillion times in English.

If you believe something is toxic, and you pass it on to someone who may not know it is toxic, that is immoral. If someone insists you are crazy, it's perfectly safe, it's a judgment call then, but I personally would be worried sick that if I gave it to them they would get sick and I'd feel responsible. Depending upon the item I may or may not give it to them. Certain substances and chemicals freak me out a little more than others. Flouride, Chlorine, lead...those are high on my list of things I don't want my kids exposed to if I can help it.


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
*
If you believe something is toxic, and you pass it on to someone who may not know it is toxic, that is immoral.* If someone insists you are crazy, it's perfectly safe, it's a judgment call then, but I personally would be worried sick that if I gave it to them they would get sick and I'd feel responsible. Depending upon the item I may or may not give it to them. Certain substances and chemicals freak me out a little more than others. Flouride, Chlorine, lead...those are high on my list of things I don't want my kids exposed to if I can help it.

and there is the assumption AGAIN that just because you are donating it to a thrift store that the people buying them are uneducated.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wonderwahine* 
and there is the assumption AGAIN that just because you are donating it to a thrift store that the people buying them are uneducated.

No, it's that I have _no way of knowing._

If I know who I give it to, I know that they have made an informed decision because _I'm gonna talk their ear off before I give it to them._







It doesn't have anything to do with classism. I love thrift stores myself.







But even as a consumer, when you buy something without a manual or a package, if you don't do some research you don't always know all the facts, yk? I would still go home and check things out myself.

I've been dirt poor. I know about assumptions. I would never just assume that someone in a thrift store was uneducated or didn't know any better because they were _in a thrift store._ I know people who are well off who shop in thrift shops looking for antiques.







Is _that_ what bothers you?
Because that isn't at all what I have been talking about. My beef is with the donator, not the purchaser.







:


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
If you believe something is toxic, and you pass it on to someone who may not know it is toxic, that is immoral. *If someone insists you are crazy, it's perfectly safe, it's a judgment call then*, but I personally would be worried sick that if I gave it to them they would get sick and I'd feel responsible.

(Bolding mine.) Okay, then it's a judgment call, because many many people _do_ insist that MIC toys are perfectly safe unless proved otherwise by appearing on a recall list.

As I said before (and feel you are purposely ignoring, as you feel others are purposely ignoring some of your points), some people feel that, although MIC toys are suspect enough that they'd rather not have them in their homes, they aren't proven to all be contaminated and therefore have chosen to let other families make that decision for themselves.

If you believe (and I don't think you do, which is why I'm surprised that you made the comparison a couple of times) that people who have made such a choice would also leave used syringes and rat poison lying around, I really don't know what to say.

As far as your Pig Latin comment, I have to say I feel the same way -- I suppose the discussion should end, since both sides feel as though we're banging our heads against a brick wall.


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
No, it's that I have _no way of knowing._

If I know who I give it to, I know that they have made an informed decision because _I'm gonna talk their ear off before I give it to them._

thats even more insulting, your pushing your beliefs onto people in order to give them something you dont want anymore!


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wonderwahine* 
thats even more insulting, your pushing your beliefs onto people in order to give them something you dont want anymore!

No, I'm just going to ask if they have heard all of the claims about the dangers. If they, like you, say it doesn't matter, at least they have made an _informed_ choice. If they say OMG, I had no idea, at least they have something to think about before they make their choice, which again, will be an _informed_ one.

What they believe is their choice.









I don't understand why that is so offensive to you.


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
No, I'm just going to ask if they have heard all of the claims about the dangers. If they, like you, say it doesn't matter, at least they have made an _informed_ choice. If they say OMG, I had no idea, at least they have something to think about before they make their choice, which again, will be an _informed_ one.

What they believe is their choice.









I don't understand why that is so offensive to you.

no, you arnt informing them of the "dangers" you are telling them ubsanstantiated paranoia claims that they are toxic and your own agenda against MIC toys. unless they are recalled toys, there is nothing wrong with them.

and it is offensive to me, because I have seen other so called lactivists use the same tactic, by posting the formula samples on freecycle and then berating the person who comes to pick them up about the dangers of the formula and how it is poison, and handing them breastfeeding information they never asked for. its disrespectul, and demeaning, noone should have to listen to your point of veiw over something they are accepting for free from you. Either donate it and keep your mouth shut about it, or dont donate at all.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
(Bolding mine.)
As I said before (and feel you are purposely ignoring, as you feel others are purposely ignoring some of your points), some people feel that, although MIC toys are suspect enough that they'd rather not have them in their homes, they aren't proven to all be contaminated and therefore have chosen to let other families make that decision for themselves.

I believe in letting other families make that choice for themselves. But the problem with an anonymous donation is, you have no idea if the person who gets it is informed. If a person buys something in a store and there have been recalls, _they are posted,_ I've worked retail, I know this. Items are pulled from the shelves.

With used items you never know if the recall information was received.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
If you believe (and I don't think you do, which is why I'm surprised that you made the comparison a couple of times) that people who have made such a choice would also leave used syringes and rat poison lying around, I really don't know what to say.

I explained that in another post. I'm chemically sensitive and a lot of things in the environment really affect me, so it's scary to me that people don't worry about lead, or chlorine, or any number of things that can mess up your body. Since children are usually affected more than adults, I do worry about stuff like this, and because of my experiences probably more than most.

To me it's very much like leaving a syringe or rat poison around. Or car exhaust, or any number of other chemical things that affect the nervous system or the endocrine system. When you have lost years of your life to environmentally aggravated illnesses, things like this make me wonder what else we have been exposed to. A friend's son suffered permanent brain damage from an environmental toxin, and when I hear that lead can cause developmental delays...I can't help but make a mental connection, yk?

I just found out that some pharmaceuticals have chlorine and fluoride in them, for example, two things that are known for suppressing thyroid function. I think there are patients who would want to know those things upfront, but I have never had a doctor tell me anything of the sort when prescribing medication, have you?

I'm a bit of a zealot about this stuff because it affected my life. And the more I learn, the scarier it gets. Don't misunderstand my passionate response as anger, because I'm not angry with anyone here. I'm passionate about the subject at hand because I think it's important. I think we are being poisoned by our environment, and MIC stuff is only a very small part of it. Because of that, I would have to know any person who I gave a MIC toy to had at least heard about the concerns.

I'm sure I'd feel differently if I had not had these experiences, but years of going to doctors and being told _it was all in my head_ while I was too sick to work or even feed myself has changed my views a lot. I'm really not trying to say I'm better than anyone else, I just can't imagine how awful I would feel if I found out someone went through the same hell and I was even a little bit responsible.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wonderwahine* 
no, you arnt informing them of the "dangers" you are telling them ubsanstantiated paranoia claims that they are toxic and your own agenda against MIC toys. unless they are recalled toys, there is nothing wrong with them.

and it is offensive to me, because I have seen other so called lactivists use the same tactic, by posting the formula samples on freecycle and then berating the person who comes to pick them up about the dangers of the formula and how it is poison, and handing them breastfeeding information they never asked for. its disrespectul, and demeaning, noone should have to listen to your point of veiw over something they are accepting for free from you. Either donate it and keep your mouth shut about it, or dont donate at all.

In that case, see my original post.









If I didn't know better, I'd think I was making fun of your favorite song.


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

bigeyes, if it makes any difference I know what you are saying. I think you've been perfectly clear it is about intent, and not just the toys themselves at this point. I'm sorry you're feeling so misunderstoody, I really get where you're coming from.

As a mother of a child who has plenty of MIC toys, I'm not that worried about MIC toys. Am I worried about a specific, recalled toy? Sure. But not ALL MIC toys and certainly not ALL plastic toys. My son does not have the sensitivity you are referring to.

Also, we eat non organic foods. Just as it would be my *preference* that we eat all organic, we just can't afford it. It is similar to the plastic toy thing. I mentioned much earlier in this thread that if possible, I would *prefer* we have all wonderfully homemade, non-plastic, non-MIC toys, but we just can't afford it.

Like millions and millions of people, we make do. So that means our child may eat some pesticide, even if we wish that weren't the case and we try our best for that not to be what happens. And that means that there is a small but distince possibility that our child is playing w/ lead, but we can't imagine a house w/ NO toys (or 3) so we hope for the best.

It just seems sort of elitist and dare I say....classist....*gasp* to assume that all children should not play w/ MIC and/or plastic toys.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karina5* 
.

It just seems sort of elitist and dare I say....classist....*gasp* to assume that all children should not play w/ MIC and/or plastic toys.

Ah, but see, while I am horrified at the prospect, I still respect your right to make that decision. But a used, out of the box toy with identifying marks and tags possibly removed and _no chance of being caught in a recall because it's in the thrift store or garage sale_ doesn't fill the bill.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
I believe in letting other families make that choice for themselves. But the problem with an anonymous donation is, you have no idea if the person who gets it is informed. If a person buys something in a store and there have been recalls, _they are posted,_ I've worked retail, I know this. Items are pulled from the shelves.

*With used items you never know if the recall information was received.*

(Bolding mine, again.)

What are you talking about? What recall information??? Nobody in this thread is talking about donating *recalled* items to thrift stores. I don't think I've ever been more baffled than I am right now.

Edit: Ah, I think I understand more from your above post -- you're saying that since people who buy the items second-hand don't have a way to register the toys, they wouldn't be directly informed of a subsequent recall, right? I'm glad to finally understand, but I still don't think it holds water.

For one thing, purchasers, would still have all the online and other resources available to them to find out about any recalls if it's something they're concerned about. I don't think I've ever registered one of DS's toys, but I've still managed to keep up with recalls, and if identifying tags are gone and I can't find a serial number or whatever, I err on the safe side and discard (rather than donate) the item.

Secondly, people who donate toys or other goods that are deemed safe at the time of donation should not be held morally accountable for what may be discovered about those items in the future. If that were the case, _any_ item could be deemed capable of being found to be harmful years down the road, and trashed rather than donated -- seems like a rather extreme, paranoid position to take.


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## Nature (Mar 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
(Bolding mine, again.)

What are you talking about? What recall information??? Nobody in this thread is talking about donating *recalled* items to thrift stores. I don't think I've ever been more baffled than I am right now.

Well some of us were at different times. LOL Its been a confusing thread.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nature* 
Well some of us were at different times. LOL Its been a confusing thread.









Sorry, I meant that no one's been advocating the donation of recalled toys -- you're right, it has been discussed.


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## OmJaya (Oct 12, 2007)

Thrift stores are usually frequented by the poor, right? I mean, it's not like our thrift stores are filled with the coolest clothes....it's the stuff that people don't want. I agree that MIC may be a different issue 'cause they are potentially dangerous, not just uncool, but, yeah, most people are thrift store shopping 'cause it's cheaper, not because it's the place that has all they want. MIC toys can be purchased from stores like Target which sells things cheaper than MIUSA toys or people have the option to possibly get it at a thrift store. I see no reason why people shouldn't give other parents that option if they don't approve of the toys but they already have them.


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## clane (Aug 5, 2005)

Not all thrift store purchases are made by poor, illiterate, non-english speakers who can not read recall notices in the paper, on the internet or catch them on the local news. I would absolutely never donate a recalled toy, but an outgrown or just unwanted/infrequently used toy that is MIC is definitely in the donate/freecycle bin (depending on my whims at the moment--not driving over to donate one toy, but not sitting to list 20+ items on freecycle and try to coordinate...) And I do find some pretty cool clothes at ours, when the little ones give me the chance to look...

What about the just plain average middle income family that might not want to bring up children thinking they are too good for thrift store items, but doesn't swear off all plastics/MIC either. The general tone to this thread seems to be that the thrift store patrons aren't capable of keeping up with recall notices, so we should make sure they never get their hands on MIC toys.

Obviously we don't want babes playing with dirty/broken toys with sharp edges, etc, but that's a whole 'nother issue and one to take up with the specific thrift stores. Yes, some people will donate trash & I think that is up to the attendant to look over the items (maybe a random grab through the bags) and if it's just garbage, let the people know it is not usable and they are unable to issue a tax receipt. Sorry...going off topic a bit there...


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## rootzdawta (May 22, 2005)

Just read the whole thread . . .

You can't really know people's reason for donating things so while I agree that while it's immoral or at least questionable to donate things you think are dangerous, it's pointless to spend energy worrying about it--especially since it may very well be that you're the only one who thinks it's dangerous.


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