# a confession, and request for help



## gardenmommy (Nov 23, 2001)

I am the mother of three beautiful, smart, loving, engaging, precious children. They are the best things that ever happened to me. I am so proud of them I could burst. I really love them, and am very blessed by their presence in my life.

However, I am learning that I have much to learn in the realm of parenting. I am currently reading Barbara Coloroso's Kids Are Worth It. I find the description of a brickwall parent more closely fitting me than I like. I want very much to change this, to model better parenting patterns for my children.

I do not have good role models in my own life, so everything I learn, it seems I learn the hard way, by making a mistake. I read lots of different things, but seem to come back to those ideas that are "backbone" not "brickwall" as what I'd like to emulate.

I find myself yelling at my children, being short-tempered too frequently, and generally not being as respectful of them as I would like to be.

How do I make changes? I feel like I am constantly working at this, but it never seems to get any easier. What am I missing? Is it just hard work, and that's the end of the story? Will it ever get easier?

Two statements that stand out to me in this book are "out of control kids don't need out of control parents" (wow! that's sooo helpful to me!), and "if you consistently pick up other tools (besides anger, criticism, sarcasm, etc.), your children may not even find them in their own toolbox when they are parenting". That is such a great hope and encouragement to me.

Please enlighten, educate, and encourage me. I need all the help I can get!


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## Kontessa (Nov 5, 2005)

I love your post and I think you are a wonderful mother. You see the light in your children and have seen that you have a problem you do not want to pass on to them. Me as well.

The books are great but I am thinking that you need what many of us do, situational advice. I find it very helpful still and we have been working on this for years.

Hang in there Mama!

Blessings
Kontessa


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## funkykat (Nov 10, 2004)

mama, i can relate to a lot of what you say... but do remember, the reason why it bothers you so much is BECAUSE you care. a lot of unschoolers (even though you may not unschool) have really shown me the light on a lot of parenting issues, looking at my kids in a different light and really making me think about "picking my battles", ie. should i fight with my child over wearing a pj top for 2 days straight, etc. right now i am really into what rue kream and john holt have to say. i also try to remind myself that i may lose my cool, but i can talk to them about it, apologize and talk about ways i am working on it. i am also working on letting things go a little like housework, so i can have even snippets of me time, amazingly it makes a big difference with me.

be good to yourself, blessings!


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## sassafras12 (Jan 17, 2006)

Kontessa said:


> _The books are great but I am thinking that you need what many of us do, situational advice._
> 
> I agree that situational advice does indeed have it's place and value. However, For me, GD is something that I had to first come to terms with myself, in my heart and brain. I had to really think about the "why's" of what was going on. Why was I getting so frustrated so quickly, why was my reaction to yell, etc. After lots of reading I found that it really came down to what my belief about children was. Are kids selfish, manipulating creatures that we as parents need to control? If I can't "control" them then something is wrong with the way I am parenting and I have to be tougher. Kids just push and push, they are testing us to see how much they can get away with.
> 
> ...


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## gardenmommy (Nov 23, 2001)

Sassafrass, I ask myself these questions almost on a daily basis. Why am I getting frustrated, why do I feel like yelling, why is this behavior bothering me right now, etc. etc. I find that it helps me discern what's going on beneath the surface: am I just overtired or hungry, overstimulated, feeling pressure from family to have well-behaved children, what is the child's motives, how is the child feeling, does he or she just need a hug or some extra attention, etc.

It is frustrating to me that I don't really have much experience with being gentle and patient with children. I have had to make a serious effort to retrain myself in the proper way to interact with my Dc. Everyone in my immediate family is very harsh toward children and expects them to conform; when they don't, or it takes the child awhile to comply, the adult gets angry and yells. I think the adults love their children, they just don't know any other way to be, kwim?

It's like children are there to be good, to be showpieces, yet the adults act unsurprised when they are bad. Like they were expecting bad behaviour. I know that we all have the capacity to be bad/do bad things, but I don't think my children wake up scheming how to be awful and mean.

As much as I read, I find it to be very helpful to watch other moms interact with their children, both positively and negatively. It really brings to life what I've read (I'm a very hands-on, experiential learner, not really abstract at all!).

For an example: tonight, I just lost it with my 21 month old. She's really started to say "no" to everything, to the point of frowning and turning away from something; 2 minutes later, she gets upset because I put away what she's repeatedly told me no to. She's become very uncooperative and difficult in every little thing. Now, I understand why, developmentally speaking, she's doing this. She is at a stage where she needs to separate from me and begin to establish herself as a separate individual within the family. Most of the time I'm pretty good at just being non-confrontational, helping her make choices, allowing her to explore, and giving her space to do her own thing. Our house is fairly childproof, so it's pretty easy to redirect her to something else when she's doing something I don't like. I've tried to reduce the number of things I HAVE to say no to, just because it makes my life easier with this particular child.

However, after dealing with this all day (and a 4 yr. old sporadically throwing temper tantrums and picking fights with the toddler), I'm exhausted. I'm trying to get the girls in the shower, and the toddler will have nothing to do with it. "No, no, no, no, no, no" to everything. I finally get her undressed (we try to make it a game, to be non-confrontational, get her to help, etc.), but it still is hard to convince her of the need to shower (she's covered in soup from supper). She eventually does shower, then doesn't want to get out.

Then, it's a meltdown over putting away her toothbrush. Then, a huge issue about getting her pajamas on. I finally had had it, and lightly smacked her bottom, and scolded her (I could see by the look in her eye that she was shocked). I hate that!! I really hate it that I couldn't keep it together long enough to gently get the girls in bed. That's what is frustrating to me. I felt like my reservoir of patience was completely dry, and yet I still had to deal with my girls. I love my girls to bits, but it gets old dealing with the "why" questions and "no" (esp. when the toddler is hanging on me yelling no about nothing in particular). I don't like being harsh and unkind to my children. They are worth more than that, and deserve better.

Maybe this is just a particularly trying period. I'm sure I'm learning something through this, I just can't think what it is ATM! My sense of humor seems to have disappeared just now, hopefully it will find its way back to me by tomorrow.

What am I missing? I'm sure other people deal with this sort of thing without losing their patience.

Ahhhhh, Help!


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## sassafras12 (Jan 17, 2006)

Just wanted to address something quickly here. I'll respond more tomorrow.

It seems like evenings might be a really hard time for you. Your tired from the day and more easily fall into old habits. I try to keep in mind that I don't want to "set myself up for failure". When dd was 2 she had a horrible time holding my hand and going in the direction we needed to go. She wanted to walk but wanted to walk where SHE wanted to. On days when I felt tired or stressed I just tried to avoid any of those situations where I knew a conflict could come up. I knew I wasn't in the right mindset to deal with her in a GD way so I just avoided them.

So if you know a particular evening is hard and things aren't going well then it's time to alter your expectations. Rather then the bath could she have done with just a wipedown until morning (she gets one washcloth to help while you do the real work with another) when you might be more "ready" to handle it. A little dried-on soup never hurt anyone. Her teeth won't fall out if you skip brushing 1 night. I have let my dd sleep in her sweats and a t-shirt she wore that day on nights when I have nothing left in my tank and she is ready to wage a holy war over pajamas. She didn't demand to wear her clothes to bed the next night, she just needed to that one time. I'm not saying give in to your kids demands, but wouldn't altering what you expect just that once be better than you flying off the handle and spanking? My goal on some days is to live to try the next time. And you know what, all hell doesn't break loose, the planet does't tip off it's axis. It's not any 1 battle that is important, its the war. (maybe a bad analogy since I really don't view my childs behavior as a battle between us but hopefully you get the point).

So be willing to alter your expectations during those really stressfull days when you feel like your patience has run dry. In the meantime, you might want to focus on how to make nighttimes in general more successful. Focus on what makes nighttimes really hard. What can you eliminate or change to make them easier. Would doing baths be better another time. Here's where you get the 4-yr old involved. Ask her what you could do together to make nighttimes easier........."Honey, sometimes I am really tired at night and I get upset. How do you think you could help me at night to make going to bed easier?" If she doesn't have any ideas you can prompt her. Would picking out your pjs before dinner so you already know what you are going to wear help? Could we have our goodnight stories already picked out? etc...... Set yourself up to succeed during the time of day that you know is hard.

For me this is where the conflict between my "old thinking" and "new GD thinking" really shows itself. My old self says that by making these type of alterations I am letting dd control me, I'm the parent and she should just do what I say, no matter what. Her not wanting to wear pajamas is her testing me, pushing limits. If I don't "get my way" then I have failed as a parent. The new self says that its not easy for dd to be told all day what to do. She is probably tired too at night and can't control her emotions either. That maybe she is just trying to avoid going to bed because we had a busy day and she didn't get enough really good attachment time with me. That by altering the environment I am not surrending to her manipulation but am trying to attend to all our needs and that is ok. That the most important thing is that the connection between us remains intact, that she knows that I am always a safe harbor for her.
That conflict is a constant struggle for me and here again is where I like having that foundation of beliefs.

Just wanted to also add that 2 is a really hard age so you do need to give yourself some slack in that regard. Your trying and that is what's important!


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## mom2evan (Feb 3, 2005)

gardenmommy, were you at my house last night?







You painted a beautiful portrait of my 21-m.o. DS.

I love all the posts from sassafras12, and agree wholeheartedly that sometimes, when everyone is tired or the conflict is building, it's time for me - as the adult - to make some quick decisions about what's truly important and what isn't. My DS went to bed last night with unwashed hands and face and no toothbrushing. It was the end of a long week for everyone, DS is getting a cold, and just getting him into a clean diaper and pajamas prompted emotional outbursts from him and me. I decided it was more important to cuddle, read books, and go to sleep than to lock myself into conflict over whether his face should be washed before bed or in the morning.

I also agree that it if you are experiencing repeated conflict and stress at a particular time, it's very helpful to consider different approaches when you are relaxed and able to reflect.

Mostly, I wanted to say that you sound thoughtful and loving, that 21 months does seem to be a trying age, that none of us are perfect, and, that in my view, it is OK to allow your children to know that you, too, can feel upset and frustrated and tired. I tell my DS when I am nearing my limits for patience and tolerance. I will say to him that I am frustrated, and need to sit quietly for a moment to collect myself. Over time, he is coming to appreciate my need and will often sit quietly himself and watch me, or come over to me and pat my head or say "hi, mommy" quietly (and repetitively







). I think it's important for our little ones that they realize we have feelings, too, and that they see us handling those feelings in constructive ways. What is not helpful, in my short experience as a mother, is to bottle up those feelings until they explode in raised voices or abrupt and unexpected actions (like smacking a bottom).


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## sassafras12 (Jan 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom2evan*
_Mostly, I wanted to say that you sound thoughtful and loving, that 21 months does seem to be a trying age, that none of us are perfect, and, that in my view, it is OK to allow your children to know that you, too, can feel upset and frustrated and tired. I tell my DS when I am nearing my limits for patience and tolerance. I will say to him that I am frustrated, and need to sit quietly for a moment to collect myself. Over time, he is coming to appreciate my need and will often sit quietly himself and watch me, or come over to me and pat my head or say "hi, mommy" quietly (and repetitively







). I think it's important for our little ones that they realize we have feelings, too, and that they see us handling those feelings in constructive ways. What is not helpful, in my short experience as a mother, is to bottle up those feelings until they explode in raised voices or abrupt and unexpected actions (like smacking a bottom)_.


Love this!!!!!!


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## mamakay (Apr 8, 2005)

Quote:

For me this is where the conflict between my "old thinking" and "new GD thinking" really shows itself. My old self says that by making these type of alterations I am letting dd control me, I'm the parent and she should just do what I say, no matter what. Her not wanting to wear pajamas is her testing me, pushing limits. If I don't "get my way" then I have failed as a parent. The new self says that its not easy for dd to be told all day what to do. She is probably tired too at night and can't control her emotions either. That maybe she is just trying to avoid going to bed because we had a busy day and she didn't get enough really good attachment time with me
That is so, so true for me, too.
The "old thinking" is also especially powerful because when I get _really_ upset, in some basal way I feel a horrible desire to retaliate. It's so juvenile, I know, but it's true. And when I feel like that, the "old thinking" seems to make some strange kind of sense.
Which is why it's so helpful for me to just avoid all power struggles alltogether. All they ever do, really, is turn me into a 2 year old, too.

Avoiding power struggles is hard, but it can be done, and it's so worth it.
The first major hurdle for me was laying to reast the "old thinking" that parenting was about instilling obedience...or that he needs to know "who's the boss" and all that other weird crud I was brought up with.

Quote:

I think it's important for our little ones that they realize we have feelings, too, and that they see us handling those feelings in constructive ways
ITA:
When my now 30 mo son was around 21 months, we had a bath related issue that really had me at my wit's end. (A bath faucet that required "rigging" to not just pour water out full blast, that required dh's skill to "rig", and a ds who liked to "unrig" it.)
Anyway, one night I just started bawling after he "broke" it again. I was crying and telling him that it made me really, really angry.
Not the best way of handeling it, but better that hitting or yelling, I guess.
It's better to just have composure, or avoid conflict, but I think when you're faced with that *rare* occasion when everything has gone wrong, it's not so bad to just allow yourself to cry if it's either that or lashing out against the baby/child.


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## gardenmommy (Nov 23, 2001)

ok, looking back over that situation, I can see that you are right. It would have been better to leave the bath for another time. But what about when you can't leave it for another time? How do you handle those situations where the child is resisting, but you really need her to do something?

Like, today, we were going out, and I needed my toddler to put her shoes on (ok, I needed to put her shoes on her!). She can sometimes get them on, but really, she needs me to do it most of the time. She would have nothing to do with it, so finally I just said, "ok, you can either go out in your socks, or you can wear your shoes". She immediately pitched a fit, but still wouldn't let me get her shoes on. I wasn't upset, but I didn't want to have a war over something like putting on shoes, kwim? I just put the shoes down, put my own coat and shoes on, and started to walk out the door (I had stuff to load, not like I was going to leave her home alone!). At that point, she decided she wanted her shoes on, so I helped her.

Similar situation earlier in the day with her coat and mittens. I ended up taking her outside without them on. I carried them, and maybe 3 min. after we got outside, she wanted them on. I said, "oh, you decided you did want to wear your coat and mittens. It is chilly this morning. That was a good choice." Again, I wasn't upset, just didn't want to force the issue. I figure she's getting to the age where she can start to realize that going outside without your shoes or coat isn't a good idea. I knew she'd want her coat when she realized it was, indeed, chilly, but wanted to let her reach that conclusion on her own.

I really like the suggestion to set myself up to succeed. I try to do a lot of things to minimize stress; we lay out clothes the night before early morning days, pack backpacks and lunches, check calendars, etc. I guess I never thought about doing that with regard to bedtime. That is probably my most stressful time of day. I will apply that thinking to the end of the day!

Old thinking: This is really true for me! I have a hard time resisting old patterns of behaviour when I am stressed or tired. I find the best thing sometimes is just to avoid those situations. That's not always possible; maybe it's just a matter of reinforcing new habits/thoughts/behaviours. I struggle with the old "just do it because I said so" vs. "he/she is a person too, with a real desire to understand your requests". "He/she is being disobedient by questioning your authority" vs. "He/she wants to please you, he/she is not being manipulative". It is such a struggle to rewire my brain!

Something else I really struggle with is being vulnerable and transparent with my children (well, everyone, really!). I can state my feelings, what I think about something, my opinions, etc., but to let my guard down enough to cry and be vulnerable in that way is really hard for me. How do I change that? I don't want my children to struggle with that in the same way.

Thank you for taking the time to read this. I can't tell you how I appreciate getting some fresh ideas!


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## angela&avery (May 30, 2002)

I have a two and a four year old also. For me, bedtime is tough for my four year old and i made a visible "schedule" for morning and night. I drew pictures of what needs to be done. On the morning one ( a yellow peice of contruction paper) I drew a sun next to the word morning. Then i drew food and wrote breakfast, then i drew clothes and wrote get dressed, then i drew toys and wrote play, then i drew a car and wrote time to go... this helps him to see what needs to be done before he can play, otherwise we fight and fight to get him dressed.

for bedtime i drew a bed. I then wrote 5 and it says 5 minute warning. then I drew a toothbrush (you might substitute jammies, but we do jammies early,, so they arent part of our bedtime routine... we just love jammies in this house...lol) and I wrote brush teeth, i drew a glass and wrote drink of water, i drew books and wrote read stories, and then i drew a light and wrote lights out.

This has helped so much with my four year old. i dont have to tell him what is next, he goes and checks, which takes the blame off me. And he is secure in knowing everything is the same every time we use the charts.

The two year old, I give her as many choices I can in things that I dont care about so that she is able to assert herself. She picks waht she wants for breakfast (within reason) and lunch, all her cups, bowls and spoons are on her level, so she picks which ones she wants. She chooses what she wants to drink (milk, water or juice). If she has had a lot of juice her choices are milk or water, and she will usually pick one without fuss. She chooses her snacks, her clothes her shoes her coat her sweater...... what books she wants me to read at night.... which ballet leotard she wants to wear....

Ever since I started making MOST everything a choice, life is much easier. Much of the time, when I need things done they are not an issue. She has like 3 toothbrushes and chooses which one she wants to use....

Also, I know how tired you can be at night, but reading stories is such an incentive to get ready for bed. My kids love it and when I skip it bedtime is much harder.

If she doesnt want a coat, hat, mittens, I just bring them in my bag. Typically she doesnt fight me, but sometime she does, and she is a very warm kid, so i figure she knows her body.

I feel like I can usually manipulate her choices so that I can live with what she chooses. Sometimes it doesnt work, but much of the time it does..


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## angela&avery (May 30, 2002)

I have a two and a four year old also. For me, bedtime is tough for my four year old and i made a visible "schedule" for morning and night. I drew pictures of what needs to be done. On the morning one ( a yellow peice of contruction paper) I drew a sun next to the word morning. Then i drew food and wrote breakfast, then i drew clothes and wrote get dressed, then i drew toys and wrote play, then i drew a car and wrote time to go... this helps him to see what needs to be done before he can play, otherwise we fight and fight to get him dressed.

for bedtime i drew a bed. I then wrote 5 and it says 5 minute warning. then I drew a toothbrush (you might substitute jammies, but we do jammies early,, so they arent part of our bedtime routine... we just love jammies in this house...lol) and I wrote brush teeth, i drew a glass and wrote drink of water, i drew books and wrote read stories, and then i drew a light and wrote lights out.

This has helped so much with my four year old. i dont have to tell him what is next, he goes and checks, which takes the blame off me. And he is secure in knowing everything is the same every time we use the charts.

The two year old, I give her as many choices I can in things that I dont care about so that she is able to assert herself. She picks waht she wants for breakfast (within reason) and lunch, all her cups, bowls and spoons are on her level, so she picks which ones she wants. She chooses what she wants to drink (milk, water or juice). If she has had a lot of juice her choices are milk or water, and she will usually pick one without fuss. She chooses her snacks, her clothes her shoes her coat her sweater...... what books she wants me to read at night.... which ballet leotard she wants to wear....

Ever since I started making MOST everything a choice, life is much easier. Much of the time, when I need things done they are not an issue. She has like 3 toothbrushes and chooses which one she wants to use....

Also, I know how tired you can be at night, but reading stories is such an incentive to get ready for bed. My kids love it and when I skip it bedtime is much harder.

If she doesnt want a coat, hat, mittens, I just bring them in my bag. Typically she doesnt fight me, but sometime she does, and she is a very warm kid, so i figure she knows her body.

I feel like I can usually manipulate her choices so that I can live with what she chooses. Sometimes it doesnt work, but much of the time it does..


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## angela&avery (May 30, 2002)

I have a two and a four year old also. For me, bedtime is tough for my four year old and i made a visible "schedule" for morning and night. I drew pictures of what needs to be done. On the morning one ( a yellow peice of contruction paper) I drew a sun next to the word morning. Then i drew food and wrote breakfast, then i drew clothes and wrote get dressed, then i drew toys and wrote play, then i drew a car and wrote time to go... this helps him to see what needs to be done before he can play, otherwise we fight and fight to get him dressed.

for bedtime i drew a bed. I then wrote 5 and it says 5 minute warning. then I drew a toothbrush (you might substitute jammies, but we do jammies early,, so they arent part of our bedtime routine... we just love jammies in this house...lol) and I wrote brush teeth, i drew a glass and wrote drink of water, i drew books and wrote read stories, and then i drew a light and wrote lights out.

This has helped so much with my four year old. i dont have to tell him what is next, he goes and checks, which takes the blame off me. And he is secure in knowing everything is the same every time we use the charts.

The two year old, I give her as many choices I can in things that I dont care about so that she is able to assert herself. She picks waht she wants for breakfast (within reason) and lunch, all her cups, bowls and spoons are on her level, so she picks which ones she wants. She chooses what she wants to drink (milk, water or juice). If she has had a lot of juice her choices are milk or water, and she will usually pick one without fuss. She chooses her snacks, her clothes her shoes her coat her sweater...... what books she wants me to read at night.... which ballet leotard she wants to wear....

Ever since I started making MOST everything a choice, life is much easier. Much of the time, when I need things done they are not an issue. She has like 3 toothbrushes and chooses which one she wants to use....

Also, I know how tired you can be at night, but reading stories is such an incentive to get ready for bed. My kids love it and when I skip it bedtime is much harder.

If she doesnt want a coat, hat, mittens, I just bring them in my bag. Typically she doesnt fight me, but sometime she does, and she is a very warm kid, so i figure she knows her body.

I feel like I can usually manipulate her choices so that I can live with what she chooses. Sometimes it doesnt work, but much of the time it does..


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## mom2evan (Feb 3, 2005)

A couple of thoughts about the shoes and coat scenarios you described.

First, we do exactly the same thing with regard to putting coats on. If DS refuses to put his coat on, and it's not dangerously cold (i.e., below zero), we go outside and I carry his coat. 99 times out of 100 he will decide, within moments, that he is cold outside and ready to put his coat on.

While I don't think I'd be OK with this if he were, say, 15 years old, I don't have any problem with it now. Even though I'm telling him it's cold outside, he needs to experience it for himself before he understands what it means and what it feels like.

I think the approach you outlined is exactly right. You didn't create a power struggle where one isn't required, and didn't punish by, for example, scolding or "teaching your child a lesson" by leaving the coat at home.

As for the shoes, I would try to identify the cause of her not wanting to put her shoes on. Was she tired, and didn't want to go out? Was she playing a game and wasn't ready to leave? Did she want to do it herself, and couldn't? I don't think you handled it badly at all, but I find things always go more easily if I can identify the underlying cause of DS's behavior and address it.


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## gardenmommy (Nov 23, 2001)

I so much appreciate your comments and suggestions! It is very helpful to me to hear other approaches to a situation.

I was very proud of myself today. After church, we went out to eat for lunch, which sometimes turns out very badly, depending on lots of different factors (I'm sure you can relate!). Dd2 (my toddler) wasn't really interested in eating; she wanted to get down and explore the restaurant, engage in some socializing, fingerprint the windows, etc. She was being quite obstinant about not sitting with us (really, I am happy if she's standing on the floor next to me, sitting on my lap, standing in her chair, just not running all over the place).

I was feeling somewhat impatient with this (the place was PACKED and I was getting the evil eye from some people), but stayed very collected. I was able to talk to dd and not lose patience with her; I can't tell you what a big accomplishement this is for me! I hate feeling angry or frustrated with my Dc; they deserve better than that. It felt good to respond from a place of emotional control, rather than reacting from a negative emotional standpoint. It was actually a very good day from that point. \


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## gardenmommy (Nov 23, 2001)

angela&avery, I use a lot of those strategies already. I was forced to implement them when my oldest (ds 7 yrs) was about 1 yr. old. I do not use a chart with my 4 yr. old. She would probably really like that; I think I may make up something like that this week and give it a try.


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## gardenmommy (Nov 23, 2001)

mamakay said:


> That is so, so true for me, too.
> The "old thinking" is also especially powerful because when I get _really_ upset, in some basal way I feel a horrible desire to retaliate. It's so juvenile, I know, but it's true. And when I feel like that, the "old thinking" seems to make some strange kind of sense.
> Which is why it's so helpful for me to just avoid all power struggles alltogether. All they ever do, really, is turn me into a 2 year old, too.
> 
> ...


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## gardenmommy (Nov 23, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sassafras12*
If I don't "get my way" then I have failed as a parent. The new self says that its not easy for dd to be told all day what to do. She is probably tired too at night and can't control her emotions either. That maybe she is just trying to avoid going to bed because we had a busy day and she didn't get enough really good attachment time with me. That by altering the environment I am not surrending to her manipulation but am trying to attend to all our needs and that is ok. That the most important thing is that the connection between us remains intact, that she knows that I am always a safe harbor for her.
That conflict is a constant struggle for me and here again is where I like having that foundation of beliefs.


Sassafras, this rings so true for me. I have struggled with getting completely on board with GD for years, because the old way of thinking is so strong. It is so ingrained that it feels just WRONG to not control my children. But, at the end of the day, I really KNOW intuitively that the most important thing is to foster, build, and maintain the connection between me and my children. I feel like my relationship with my Ds isn't nearly as strong as it should be simply because I've been too harsh with him. I really want my children to know that I will always love them, that I will always be a "safe harbor" for them.

That really puts into words something that I feel very deeply. Thank you for saying that!


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## sassafras12 (Jan 17, 2006)

_


mamakay said:



That is so, so true for me, too.
The "old thinking" is also especially powerful because when I get really upset, in some basal way I feel a horrible desire to retaliate. It's so juvenile, I know, but it's true. And when I feel like that, the "old thinking" seems to make some strange kind of sense.
Which is why it's so helpful for me to just avoid all power struggles alltogether. All they ever do, really, is turn me into a 2 year old, too.

Click to expand...

_


mamakay said:


> Just wanted to respond to this. I think this has really been one of the most surprising reactions I have as well. Where does that massive, instantaneous anger come from. For example, dd has a routine of putting on shoes, coat, hat, mittens. Well she left her hat and scarf in the car. We get her shoes, coat on no problem. She askes for her hat and scarf and I tell her they are in the car and we will put them on in the car. We walk out, I get to the car, grab the hat and scarf to give to her and she completely wigs out. She wants to go BACK IN THE HOUSE to put them on. Suddenly I feel this swoosh of anger. I want to scream, "what the hell difference does it make. Put on the blanking hat and blanking scarf!!!!! Get your blank in the car!!!!"
> So I bite my tongue, walk back to the house. She walks in, puts the hat and scarf on and is then ready to go. So in reality the whole think takes like 20 more seconds. Not a big deal..... So why do things like trigger such anger from me.
> 
> It seems like such a gut reaction, really no thought process involved, it happens so quickly. But why?????? I have really tried to figure this out. Is it that I feel like I am being controlled and manipulated? Is it the inconvience? Is it that I feel I have no control over the situation. If my friend made me go back in the house for something silly I wouldn't have the same angry reaction. Why do I have it with MY CHILD? My dh thinks that it isn't any one situation but the buildup of this same type of situation over and over all day long that it's inevitable that on one of them you are going to snap. The proverbial "last straw". This may play a big part because looking back on it, it was not a big deal, we weren't running late, it took all of 20 seconds. It's not like dd sees asking to go back inside as manipulating me. In her brain she NEEDS to put the hat and scarf on inside. (That 4 yr old brain is something else!!!).
> ...


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## sassafras12 (Jan 17, 2006)

_Quote:_


Originally Posted by *gardenmommy*
I
I was very proud of myself today. After church, we went out to eat for lunch, which sometimes turns out very badly, depending on lots of different factors (I'm sure you can relate!). Dd2 (my toddler) wasn't really interested in eating; she wanted to get down and explore the restaurant, engage in some socializing, fingerprint the windows, etc. She was being quite obstinant about not sitting with us (really, I am happy if she's standing on the floor next to me, sitting on my lap, standing in her chair, just not running all over the place).

I was feeling somewhat impatient with this (the place was PACKED and I was getting the evil eye from some people), but stayed very collected. I was able to talk to dd and not lose patience with her; I can't tell you what a big accomplishement this is for me! I hate feeling angry or frustrated with my Dc; they deserve better than that. It felt good to respond from a place of emotional control, rather than reacting from a negative emotional standpoint. It was actually a very good day from that point. \


Good for you!







I think it's just as important to stop and acknowledge the good things. It's easy to get caught up in the bad. Remember every good step (no matter how big or small) is leading you in direction you want to go.
Changing how you parent is not something that is going to happen overnight. It takes practice.

Don't you just love the "evil eye" you get when your out with your kids!!!







: It drives me crazy. I read once that in America we love the "idea" or kids but we don't want to deal with the reality of kids!! How true!!!

_I need some practical strategies to defuse before I lose it and spill my anger/frustration/impatience on my children. This is what my mom always did to me and my siblings. I want to break the cycle, give my children the incredible gift of grace under pressure_.

First, the ultimate goal is to change your thinking/reactions/beliefs so that the anger/frustation/impatience doesn't occur as often or as intensely. It's not just changing your reaction to situations but altering your whole parenting lifestyle/strategy. It's being proactive rather that reactive. To me the "old" way of parenting is just going along hopeing things will be ok. Then being forced to react when things happen we don't like. GD on the other had is acting before hand to "help" things go smoothly. For example, not having unrealistic expectations, like wanting a hungry 2 year old to wait in line at the bank with you for 30 minutes right during their nap time. The whole "setting yourself and your child up to succeed." That truely is a mindset and something that isn't going to happen overnight.

What I think you may be asking is how to control your anger while your in the process of making this new way of thinking/acting more a part of how you parent. Because unless you can really change and become more proactive you will still find yourself in those "anger/frustrated times. That's not to say you will never be angry/frustrated, your human!!!

So what is something practical that you could use in any situation when you feel you are starting to lose it while you are incorporating other changes. I think someone else mentioned this. I think you need to literally stop and talk to yourself out loud. "This is not the way I want to be". Then you need to walk away and collect yourself. Take a few deep breaths. Let the kids see you do this. Talk to them about it. Say I want to try and not be angry so when I am feeling mad I am going to go sit on the couch/bed/whatever so I can calm down and feel better. Give the spot a name that eveyone knows and refers to...."the calm down spot", the feel better spot, whatever. It's just about physically stopping, pulling back and giving yourself a chance to regroup. Then you can try again.

Hope this made sense









One last think I want to mention. I don't think we talk enough about how important the connection we have with our kids is. That all the the tips and advice we get/give is meaningless without that attachment relationship. So most of our effort with our kids should be about building and mantaining that relationship, not on altering their behavior.


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## abandbunk (Jan 7, 2006)

: great stuff, you women are geniuses







all of this was sooo helpful, i am in a similar boat, 22 month old







and a 3 yr old







. Subscibing


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

I just wanted to say what a great thread this is. I, too struggle with the "old way" vs. "new way" thinking, and I too wonder why I get so mad (internally) at little things like going back into the house to put the scarf on.


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## gardenmommy (Nov 23, 2001)

Sorry, I've had company this week and I've been away from the computer.

So, I've been really pondering what it means to foster the connection with my children. It seems that I have major control issues (I think I know why, and I've worked at this in other areas for several years). It is soooo hard to let go of what I want, and wait for my children to do what they want/need.

For example, with my 22 month old, everything is no,no,no,no,no. She is very independent and wants to do it all herself. She wants to dress and undress herself, zip her jammies, put on her shoes, etc. It is very hard to not say, "I'm going to put your clothes on right now, because I'm the parent". It takes so much patience to wait for her to be ready to get dressed. After all, it is HER body, she ought to have some say in what happens to it.

Another example. My friend has a high-needs 3 yr. old dd. She was very sick as an infant, so my friend developed some habits that made her life easier. One thing she did was to allow her dd to sit on her lap and eat off her plate (which most of us do to some extent or another. I'm not criticizing her, just using this particular thing to illustrate something). For the most part, my Dc stopped doing this by around age 2. It bothered me for the longest time that she "catered" to her dd in this way. That she allowed her dd to manipulate her like that. After all, she is perfectly capable of eating her own food herself off her own plate.

After some reflection, however, I have changed my perspective. I realized that my friend was simply choosing not to make this an issue. Her Dd will eventually stop eating from mom's plate; this is not worth fighting over. She doesn't need to "control" her Dd; she isn't being manipulated, she is just helping her Dd feel loved and secure.

The old way of thinking is truly REactive; I go along until something happens (child spills water, breaks my favorite picture, whatever). Then I snap and yell at the "offender", which impairs our connection, and keep on going.

The new way of thinking is PROactive. I look at the big picture, see where things are starting to rub, take steps to reduce the friction, and keep going. It takes a lot of work to keep greasing the wheel, so to speak, but things are definitely smoother when I do.


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## gardenmommy (Nov 23, 2001)

Sassafrass, I really like the following ideas:

A "calm down" spot. I think that is a great idea to have a place where I can go to pull back and regain my self-control. Just today I could have used it! I was trying to change my toddler's diaper and she would have nothing to do with it. She really wanted to be outside, but she was tired and needed a nap. I had to wrestle her pants off, my 7 yr. old was in her face trying to distract her (but was really just aggravating her), and the pressure was on. I yelled at both of them! DD and I went to sit in our chair to nurse, which calmed us both (Thank God for extended BFing!). I got the babe down for a nap, and then went and apologized to my son. I've restored the connection between all of us, but man! it sure would have been better if I could have just maintained self-control!

I think that if I had stepped away for about 5 minutes, I WOULD have remained in control of myself, and been able to handle the situation more appropriately. So, thank you for this idea. I wrote down this statement, and am going to start using it when I feel the steam rising within: "This IS NOT how I want to be with my children". I'm going to combine that with the calm down spot, and see if that makes a difference.

Thank you ladies, I can't tell you how much it has helped me to dialogue with you on this topic!


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## sassafras12 (Jan 17, 2006)

_


gardenmommy said:



So, I've been really pondering what it means to foster the connection with my children. It seems that I have major control issues (I think I know why, and I've worked at this in other areas for several years). It is soooo hard to let go of what I want, and wait for my children to do what they want/need.

For example, with my 22 month old, everything is no,no,no,no,no. She is very independent and wants to do it all herself. She wants to dress and undress herself, zip her jammies, put on her shoes, etc. It is very hard to not say, "I'm going to put your clothes on right now, because I'm the parent". It takes so much patience to wait for her to be ready to get dressed. After all, it is HER body, she ought to have some say in what happens to it.

Another example. My friend has a high-needs 3 yr. old dd. She was very sick as an infant, so my friend developed some habits that made her life easier. One thing she did was to allow her dd to sit on her lap and eat off her plate (which most of us do to some extent or another. I'm not criticizing her, just using this particular thing to illustrate something). For the most part, my Dc stopped doing this by around age 2. It bothered me for the longest time that she "catered" to her dd in this way. That she allowed her dd to manipulate her like that. After all, she is perfectly capable of eating her own food herself off her own plate.

After some reflection, however, I have changed my perspective. I realized that my friend was simply choosing not to make this an issue. Her Dd will eventually stop eating from mom's plate; this is not worth fighting over. She doesn't need to "control" her Dd; she isn't being manipulated, she is just helping her Dd feel loved and secure.

The old way of thinking is truly REactive; I go along until something happens (child spills water, breaks my favorite picture, whatever). Then I snap and yell at the "offender", which impairs our connection, and keep on going.

The new way of thinking is PROactive. I look at the big picture, see where things are starting to rub, take steps to reduce the friction, and keep going. *It takes a lot of work to keep greasing the wheel, so to speak, but things are definitely smoother when I do*.[/

Click to expand...

_


gardenmommy said:


> QUOTE]
> 
> gardenmommy
> 
> ...


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## MyLittleWonders (Feb 16, 2004)

This thread is awesome! Dh and I are just starting to change those mindsets, and reading about other parents having gone through it and also struggle with it is so reassuring. I could write so many of the situations in this thread - ds#1 is 4.5 (almost 5), and ds#2 is 28 months. To top things off, I'm almost 8 months pregnant, which makes me more likely to loose my patience (tired, sore, and overly hormonal) and also seems to be making ds#2 more anxious.


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## Sitara (Sep 27, 2004)

thank you thank you for this thread, you have no idea what it has done for me and my children. I have been struggling so much lately with losing my patience and this is really helping me. Thank you..... thank you


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## kissykoko (Feb 24, 2006)

subscribing







:


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## funkykat (Nov 10, 2004)

yes, thank you gardenmommy, this thread has been very helpful to me too!









dh and i grew up in loving homes, but both moms were neat freaks and parents were yellers, of the "i told you so, you do it" parenting style, we were also paddled. all patterns we are trying to break. being under a lot of stress in life only adds to it!! reading how you all feel makes me realize that there are other people who totally understand where we are coming from. a lot of mainstream friends and family will poo-poo my guilt feelings of lashing out at them, "well, they pushed your buttons" or "sometimes kids have to be set straight"...ugh!







not where i want to be going with it all!! thank you all for sharing... it's not easy stuff to admit.

some things that have helped me since dc #2, is realizing what my trigger stressors are and working on letting them go. such as the house may be messy for a day or two if we are busy, but eventually it will get picked up. or knowing that the whole house will not ever be all clean at the same time, it would stress me to no end to try and attempt that!







i also let dd (who is 2 1/2) wear some crazy outfits out because i know at her age feeling in control is more important than to me.

i have a really hard time when ds (6 /12) is mean to dd... that is REALLY hard for me to handle at this point, she is so sweet to him and sometimes he is just pure meanness.

happy friday ladies!


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## sassafras12 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hey everyone, I was roaming on the web today and stumbled on this web site I wanted to share.

http://www.connectionparenting.com/

I swear I found this today!!! I just laughed when I read the reactive versus proactive. It must make sense if we both came to it!!









Haven't had much change to read more on the site but the whole connection parenting really grabbed me and I wanted to share since it seems to be right up the alley with what we have been discussing here.

Let me know what you think!!!


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## Diane B (Mar 15, 2004)

Great thread - Gardenmommy, I would recommend a book to you: Anger, by Thich Nhat Hanh. It really gives some beautiful suggestions for how to handle our anger gracefully, lovingly and appropriately. I have found these teachings so helpful in all areas of my life, but especially in parenting. When I can take care of my own body and mind, I am SO much better with my daughter.

One other thing: I tend to be on the controlling side (how I was raised, of course) but my partner has a lot fewer issues with this. I often ask for her input on a situation when we're both around, or check in with her later. I know I have a tendency toward rigid thinking, so I try to rely on her healthier attitudes when I'm in a tight spot (like, "Honey, do you think it would be ok for Anna to go outside without her shoes on?") In my family or origin, there were such rigid and strict rules that my impulse is not to be flexible. Is there someone around that you could do a quick check-in with that might balance you out a little?


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## CA Mommy (Mar 5, 2006)

Just wanted to respond to this. I think this has really been one of the most surprising reactions I have as well. Where does that massive, instantaneous anger come from. For example, dd has a routine of putting on shoes, coat, hat, mittens. Well she left her hat and scarf in the car. We get her shoes, coat on no problem. She askes for her hat and scarf and I tell her they are in the car and we will put them on in the car. We walk out, I get to the car, grab the hat and scarf to give to her and she completely wigs out. She wants to go BACK IN THE HOUSE to put them on. Suddenly I feel this swoosh of anger. I want to scream, "what the hell difference does it make. Put on the blanking hat and blanking scarf!!!!! Get your blank in the car!!!!"
So I bite my tongue, walk back to the house. She walks in, puts the hat and scarf on and is then ready to go. So in reality the whole think takes like 20 more seconds. Not a big deal..... So why do things like trigger such anger from me.

Just reading this whole thread is so encouraging to me b/c I have to struggle with GD EVERY day. It does not come natural for me.
In regard to the above situation, my encounter is slightly different and I always question how I handle it.

The scenario-
We come home in the afternoon from the park, shopping, or whatever and my 3yo ds knows it's nap time when we get home. So he says he wants to stay in the car, the garage, etc. (anything to stall the nap) So I tell him he has to come in the house now and he can walk or I will carry him. He still says he wants to stay. So I say, "I'm going to count to 3 and if you don't decide, I will carry you" No response. I count to 3 and then carry him in the house. He immediately falls to the floor in a meltdown saying, "I wanna walk. I wanna walk". Most of the time, I repeat the scenario to him and tell him that I gave him a choice and he chose to be carried etc. If I took him back and let him walk himself, then I know he'd be fine and the tantrum would be over. But, at this point, I can't get over feeling that he will think that he can throw a fit to get what he wants.


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## gardenmommy (Nov 23, 2001)

DianeB: Thank you for the book recommendation. It sounds like something I need to read! As for checking in with someone else, I do this often with my Dh. He works from home, so we are in a position to utilize his authority and perspective in disciplining our Dc. He was gone for nearly 2 months, which is one reason why I've been struggling so much. We've had some REALLY good talks lately, and have decided that he needs to take a more active role with this area. He is generally coming from a better perspective than I am (don't get me wrong, his parents left him with plenty of issues, this just isn't one of them). I find that if I can get his opinion, it helps me in a couple of ways. One, it gives me time to step back, and two, it allows us to together decide what the best response is to the situation.

This approach isn't always possible, of course, but I do try to take advantage of it when it is possible.

Funkycat: I really struggle with my 7 1/2 yr. old with my Dds. They want to be with him and play together, but often, he is just SOOO irritable and grumpy with him. He can be just plain mean to them! It's something that we struggle with!

Sassafrass: Thank you for the link. I haven't had time to check it out yet, but will post back after I do!


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## sassafras12 (Jan 17, 2006)

_Quote:_


Originally Posted by *CA Mommy*
Just reading this whole thread is so encouraging to me b/c I have to struggle with GD EVERY day. It does not come natural for me.
In regard to the above situation, my encounter is slightly different and I always question how I handle it.

The scenario-
We come home in the afternoon from the park, shopping, or whatever and my 3yo ds knows it's nap time when we get home. So he says he wants to stay in the car, the garage, etc. (anything to stall the nap) So I tell him he has to come in the house now and he can walk or I will carry him. He still says he wants to stay. So I say, "I'm going to count to 3 and if you don't decide, I will carry you" No response. I count to 3 and then carry him in the house. He immediately falls to the floor in a meltdown saying, "I wanna walk. I wanna walk". Most of the time, I repeat the scenario to him and tell him that I gave him a choice and he chose to be carried etc. If I took him back and let him walk himself, then I know he'd be fine and the tantrum would be over. But, at this point, I can't get over feeling that he will think that he can throw a fit to get what he wants.


I think this is a great example of how the GD approach is more proactive than reactive. I think you are still being a little reactive. You get home and you sorta know he might battle about going in cuz he's stalling about the nap, but you just kinda wait and see how it goes. When he balks, now your forced to deal with this stuggle of getting him in. Why not be more proactive and address the issue upfront. Let me say I don't know what the nap situation is for you.....he still needs it everyday, some days, whatever but from your post he is trying to avoid it. So why not say on the way home. "I think it will be nap time when we get home. Are you tired?" If he says no, (which I assume he will) then you say. Ok, maybe instead of nap time we can just have "quiet time". If you don't want to sleep you don't have to, but we can just rest and relax for a little bit. Give him a little control back so that he doesn't feel like the nap is being pushed on him. If he still "needs" the nap he will end up falling asleep anyway but he will have had some control of the situation.

OR if you don't like the ideal of messing at all with naptime then on days that you think you may have a struggle getting him in the house think of a way to ask for his help in carrying something in. "hey, I have that big shopping bag and I don't think I can carry it by myself. do you think you could help me?"
Get his mind off of the nap and onto something else in order to avoid the going in battle.

Either way your thinking ahead and "greasing the wheels" (thank you gardenmommy) to make things go smoother.


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## CA Mommy (Mar 5, 2006)

I am usually pretty non-negiotiable about nap. I have a 17mos old and 3 yo. I have to nurse the little one to sleep so I make the 3yo lay down with us. Usually we all fall asleep and snuggle together. If the 3 yo doesn't fall asleep, I let him get up and play quietly. The problem is, he really needs a nap or he gets really nasty with his little brother. This is one area that I really had to let go of control. I used to become psycho mom when he wouldn't nap. I feel guilty to admit this, but somedays it's all I can think about is when I can have a break when they boys nap! I have to remind myself that I can't _make_ him nap even though I know he needs it...and as much as I need the break, it's not going to happen every day. Especially as he get's older.

But, anyways, I can definitely try a different approach to getting him to come in the house. Maybe asking for his help, like you said.
It might not even be a good idea on my part of using that approach to get him to cooperate (saying you can do it or I can do it for you) b/c it backfires quite a bit. We have the same battle sometimes on getting in the car seat. I say, "We gotta go, so you can get in the car by yourself or I can do it for you." He does neither so I put him in and he screams that he wanted to do it himself. Maybe I need to give him more time to make a decision, I don't know. He gets that way when he's tired and there's no way to please him.
I'm going to have to rethink my approach on this one.


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## gardenmommy (Nov 23, 2001)

sassafrass, I have just started (busy weekend and all that!) looking at that website you linked. It looks like a great place! I am going to take some time over the next several days and really check it out. Thank you so much for that.

Today was pretty good day. It didn't start out so well, but it did improve. Ds (7 yrs) didn't want to get out of bed this morning, and Dh was on the verge of really starting to go through the whole routine of "helping" him (verbal prompts, helping him get dressed, etc.). I stepped in (don't usually like to do that, but felt it was appropriate in this situation) and stopped Dh. I suggested that we let Ds get himself ready. I told Ds, "we are going to leave in 40 min.; in that time you need to get dressed, eat breakfast, and brush your teeth. We will leave, no matter in what state of dress/undress you happen to be. You may take your clothes with you and dress in the car if you like."

Dh and I left the bedroom. 5 min. later, Ds walked out, completely dressed. He chose to skip breakfast, not liking any of the choices available. He did everything else to get himself ready, with only minimal prompting from Dh and I.

I was happy with the way Dh and I made Ds responsible for getting himself ready this morning. It made our morning much easier. What's even more important, I remembered what I wanted to see in my son, and had no trouble framing it as his responsiblity to take care of himself; because of that, I was able to be pleasant and cheerful instead of demanding and angry with Ds. It felt very good to handle that situation in a positive, proactive way instead of reacting to his attitude and slowness.

It is such a CHOICE to be proactive, to make the change from waiting for things to happen to helping them go the way you want. Sometimes it's hard to take steps to be proactive, but I am finding that things go SO much better when I do that.


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## Sitara (Sep 27, 2004)

Nobody knows it, but when I have my hardest days, I come and read part of this thread. Its been in my bookmarks since its beginning.
And here I find peace, my patience, myself. I take a deep breath let it go and thank all of the women in this thread.
And then I go back to my children.


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## wecandoit (May 12, 2006)

I had the same trouble with my DS who is now 18 months. Or rather I had the trouble.

Then I started seeing a therapist and reading books that really spoke to me. I feel I have experienced an amazing transformation.

I am learning from therapy that I experienced all sorts of traumas and disappointments as a child and adolescent. I learned unhealthy ways of communicating my feelings. By examining these with my therapist and allowing myself to grief these things, I am learning how to deal with my feelings, treating myself gently, and out of this comes a new way of being...I'm more patient, communicative, less anxious, able to ask for what I need, I feel strong when I apologize. It feels great.

Also, I've read "The Aware Baby" by Aletha Solter, which helped me understand the importance of feeling and expressing feelings fully. I facilitate this for my DS now instead of resisting it. I read "Unconditional Parenting" by Alfie Kohn, which helped me think about the kind of parent I want to me, helped me set priorities (fewer clashes over will when I allow myself to be more flexible, for example). I highly recommend these books.

So anyway, it's not like I'm done growing or anything. But I feel like I've come a long way and parenting has become a lot easier since I embarked on this path. When I get frustrated I express it in a way I would hope my DS will be able to some day. For example, "I'm really mad right now because when you bit me it hurt and I don't feel respected."

I feel so proud that I am changing as a person. And happier too, because the grief and baggage I've been carrying around all my life is something I'm able to deal with now, talk about, cry about. It's hard but it feels good.


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