# spinning children by their arms



## Thursday Girl (Mar 26, 2004)

ok so my mom saw a picture of my sisters boyfriend swinging my daughter around and around. my mom (as we knew she would be) was upset. but i was just wondering how many of you swing your kids around or know an adult who swings your child around. and has the child's arm ever been dislocated or has the adult lost grip of the child sending the child flying? my mom insists this will happen and i just think that well possible is a little far fetched. opinions?

courtney

ps i will post the picture later


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## Robin926 (Jun 25, 2005)

From http://www.emedicinehealth.com/articles/10123-2.asp

Quote:

Nursemaid elbow occurs after a sudden pulling force is applied to the extended upper arm of the child while the arm is slightly twisted.

[...]

* Some examples of typical situations that can produce the mechanism of force required to cause this injury are these

[...]

# Swinging the child while holding the child by the hands


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## momto l&a (Jul 31, 2002)

I have heard of it happening. Seems like last year or so there was a mamma who had it happen to their dc.

I do it as does dh to all 3 of our children. No, our children have never gotten loose of our gripe nor has the childs arm been dislocated. They love it.

Accidents happen. You just never know when.


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## LizaBear (Feb 1, 2003)

Yes - on the lost grip part.

I can remember spinning a young cousin of mine arond and totally losing my grip on him and watching him going flying. Luckily he had a soft landing, and other than both being scared silly, nobody was hurt (we were in a grassy area, so fairly soft landing).


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## WendyC (Jun 16, 2005)

When I was a teenager I spun my baby brother (1-2ish) around like that and pulled his arm out of socket. I STILL feel bad about it!!!


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## RubyWild (Apr 7, 2004)

We do not swing our Dd by the arms. I wish I had mentioned this fact to a friend of mine who's Dh used to pick their toddlers up by the arms to swing them over the safety gate. They must have done that dozens, maybe even hundreds of times before it pulled the one boy's elbow out of socket, which was extremely painful and now that elbow pulls out of socket more easily than it should, like when you're just holding hands to cross the street and he pulls away.

The pedi said that the swinging likely slowly lengthened the connecting tendons (or ligaments?) until now he has this chronic problem that took months to show up.

Anyway, my mom never allowed us to swing because the same thing had happened to her sibling's shoulder.


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## Thursday Girl (Mar 26, 2004)

oh man my mom is always right!!!

i remember being swung around and it was always so fun and my dd can't get enough of it


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## RubyWild (Apr 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jewelysmommy*
oh man my mom is always right!!!

i remember being swung around and it was always so fun and my dd can't get enough of it

You can still hold them under the arms and swing around holding the armpits, but my dad always did this in a place where it wouldn't be a tragedy if we slipped, not that that ever happened.


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## andreac (Jul 13, 2003)

nak...

i usually grab ds under his armpits when he wants to swing


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## Robin926 (Jun 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RubyWild*
You can still hold them under the arms and swing around holding the armpits, but my dad always did this in a place where it wouldn't be a tragedy if we slipped, not that that ever happened.









:

My DS loves to spin around like that. He also loves to sit on my lap and spin around in my computer chair. Sometimes he'll even come up and start spinning me around when I'm trying to do something here!


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

I think it's totally fine to swing kids by their arms. I used to do it all the time with my cousins... they loved it. I don't like to be so overly paranoid about everything that "might possibly" hurt my DDs. I think I read in the *Continuum Concept* book, that mothers in all those "3rd world" countries regularly swing their babies by their arms... to pick them up, usually. That's why we sling our babies, right? Because it's so natural, and simple and easy.


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## chersolly (Aug 29, 2004)

We're swingers.


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## FreeThinkinMama (Aug 3, 2004)

my daugher got nursemaids elbow once when i was holding her hand and she tried to jerk away from me. I read once that it's most common in children under the age of 4.

we dont swing her by her arms like others said we try to grab her under her armpits since that happened, it was VERY scary. Her arm was completely limp and she couldn't move it and she was crying bloody murder. I thought it was broken









but we do toss her in the air and flip her over and stuff, she loves it and we're always careful


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## Journey (Jun 12, 2002)

Hi, chersolly.


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## coco4cloth (Feb 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FreeThinkinMama*
my daugher got nursemaids elbow once when i was holding her hand and she tried to jerk away from me. I read once that it's most common in children under the age of 4.

Yep my ds did this. He has had it happen a couple times. We never swing by the arms, but do under the armpits!


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## beckyh (May 3, 2004)

My BIL did this to one of DH's cousins and dislocated her arm. I admit that I do this with my son because he loves it so much. I have tried to do the under the armpit thing and he says "no mommy, by the hands!"


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## mama_mojo (Jun 5, 2005)

On the letting go- We used to do this deliberately to each other. However, we were kids spinning kids so I doubt we were spinning with anywhere near the same force. Didn't anyone else ever play swinging statues? We were never hurt.


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## WriterMama (Mar 27, 2002)

We don't swing our children by the arms either. Just a few weeks ago, my dd's elbow became dislocated when my ds pulled her (very gently--I was watching) by the arm. It took hardly any force and she was in agony.


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## CrazyCatLady (Aug 17, 2004)

Until a baby is old enough to hold on to something and lift their own feet up (hold themselves up on their own). Their shoulders are not developed properly enough to handle such things. I see people helping their babies learn to walk by holding just their hands all of the time. Or picking kids up by their arms. The shoulders aren't ready for that sort of thing and it can be very damaging. Holding on to them under their armpits is perfectly fine, and spinning motions are good for the development of their eqilibrium.


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## ~Nikki~ (Aug 4, 2004)

DH's mother hurt him this way, when he was young. It's one of those stories that she always guiltily tells. She was swinging him by his arms, and pulled one out of the socket. When she took him to the hospital, they seperated mother and child, and asked baby DH some questions alone. "Did your mother hurt you?" *sniff sniff sob* "Yesssss." Yeah, it wasn't good.







She was a wreck, lol. She thought they were going to haul her away. But eventually they beleived her version of the story, and she never played that game with him again.

When DD wants to spin, I always pick her up under the armpits. I just don't want to risk hurting her.


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## RubyWild (Apr 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Nikki~*
DH's mother hurt him this way, when he was young. It's one of those stories that she always guiltily tells. She was swinging him by his arms, and pulled one out of the socket. When she took him to the hospital, they seperated mother and child, and asked baby DH some questions alone. "Did your mother hurt you?" *sniff sniff sob* "Yesssss." Yeah, it wasn't good.







She was a wreck, lol. She thought they were going to haul her away. But eventually they beleived her version of the story, and she never played that game with him again.

When DD wants to spin, I always pick her up under the armpits. I just don't want to risk hurting her.

OH, how scary. I 100% understand the need to separate for questioning, yet that would have been the most terrifying thing in the world for my Dd and for me to have been separated from each other like that. I never thought of that happening.


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

I have always heard that it is not safe for kids under 4, b/c of the dislocating issue, so we do always do under the armpits. After 4 they are supposed to be developed enough to handle it


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## mojomom (Mar 5, 2003)

I don't anymore.
My friends dd arm did come out of socket when she was spinned around. She is 2, it happened this summmer and she had to wear a cast.
She usually has this thing where one arm dislocates on ocassion and pops back in on its own. It did not this time.
So after that I wont spin anyones kids around.


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## FreeThinkinMama (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Melaya*
Until a baby is old enough to hold on to something and lift their own feet up (hold themselves up on their own). Their shoulders are not developed properly enough to handle such things. I see people helping their babies learn to walk by holding just their hands all of the time. Or picking kids up by their arms. The shoulders aren't ready for that sort of thing and it can be very damaging. Holding on to them under their armpits is perfectly fine, and spinning motions are good for the development of their eqilibrium.

Even longer then that. My daughter was 2 when she had this happen, she was able to hold on to things and lift her own feet up, she was walking on her own, which is why she was trying to run away from me when I was holding her hand.


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## Red (Feb 6, 2002)

My cousins arm came out of the socket this way.

Kids ask for lots of things they can't have. My kids were told WHY and then I'd spin them holding them near the armpits.


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## merpk (Dec 19, 2001)

Absolutely, two of my boys have had "nursemaid's elbow." And once it happens a first time, they're prone to it for years to come.

And it hurts.










We don't swing our children by the arms. At all. And don't allow anybody else to, either.


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## LittleOne03 (Feb 7, 2004)

When I was two our neighbor did it to me and dislocated my arm as well. I had to go to the hospital and have X-rays and they wouldn't let my parents stay with me. It is my most traumatic and vivid childhood memory. So, no, I do not swing my kids by their arms.


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## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

yep. happened to dd2 about 2 weeks ago. i don't know if i was swinging her or we were just pulling in opposite directions. we had been in the toy store and dd1 needed to go potty so we HAD to leave right then. i should have just picked dd2 up, but i was holding her hand and trying to get her to come along and somehow it happened. didn't realize it at first since she was fussing enough about leaving the store. i knew what it was after a bit, though, and i KNEW there was a quick fix for it, but couldn't find it online and it was 4pm on friday so we skedaddled to the dr's office before it turned into a trip to the ER. dr bob fixed her in 30 seconds or less. she loves to be swung under the arms, too.


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## gilamomma (May 7, 2004)

I live with chronic shoulder pain (including dislocations), and have since I was 12. Swinging may have been a contributer, although the pain began years after I was too big to be swung. I also remember that it hurt a lot when I was picked up under the armpit. In fact one of my few childhood memories is the distinctive thought that because it hurt so much to be picked up under the armpit, that I would make a point to always remeber that, and to never do that to a kid when I grew up!

That said, dh swings dd, and carries her (sometimes for quite a distance) by her hands...and she loves it. I always cringe, but I realize that I cannot, never have and never will, control many aspects of her life. I have expressed my discomfort to dh, and he is empathetic, but also sees that dd loves it. And I have to admit that in a pinch I sometimes pick her up by her hands briefly.

I think there can be a balance, as long as we are aware of our actions.


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## raleigh_mom (Jan 11, 2004)

Yep. Happened to my brother when he was little. Holding my mom's hand, then dropped to the ground in a temper tantrum. Dislocated his arm. She warned me over and over to be careful with my kids....then.....

Has happened to my DD1 twice. I was being careful, but it still happened. First time with me when I was pregnant with DD2, then the second time she was with a babysitter. Luckily I was home that second time, and we all drove to the hospital. (Babysitter was being a mother's helper.) Both times it popped back into place while we were still in the waiting room at the hospital. Both times DD was 2yo.

I am still very careful about it, and I never swing my kids by the arms. Only if I am holding under their arms. And I never let anyone else do it either.

For those who say it is worrying too much... It only takes one trip to the ER with both of you sobbing. Then you never forget it. I thought they were going to think I was abusing her.


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## OakBerry (May 24, 2005)

My mom had this happen to her several times with my siblings, not just from her swinging, from the older kids swinging or pulling the younger kids (I have a lot of siblings). She was a nurse and the doctor showed her how to pop the arm back in the socket. She was always a big advocate of not swinging kids by their arms. I only swing ds by the underarms. I have dislocated my knee before, and the pain is agonizing. So I don't want ds to have to go through pain like that from his shoulder or elbow being dislocated.


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## wildmonkeys (Oct 4, 2004)

Until they are 4 it is better to swing them (and pick them up) under the armpits - I read (like a pp) that once they are 4 their arms are strong enough (makes sense since that is about when they can start doing the monkey bars)

BJ
Barney & Ben


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

I guess a child could be injured by it, but we've been swinging both of our kids by their arms since they were very young, without incident. Kids can get hurt doing a lot of things - playing tag, climbing, riding their bike, etc. I guess it just comes down to the comfort level of each individual parent. I let my kids do lot of things other parents don't (climb on precarious surfaces, run as fast as they can around the house, etc.), but I don't let them do things some other parents let their kids do (like bare feet at the playground).


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## RubyWild (Apr 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *majazama*
I think it's totally fine to swing kids by their arms. I used to do it all the time with my cousins... they loved it. I don't like to be so overly paranoid about everything that "might possibly" hurt my DDs. I think I read in the *Continuum Concept* book, that mothers in all those "3rd world" countries regularly swing their babies by their arms... to pick them up, usually. That's why we sling our babies, right? Because it's so natural, and simple and easy.

I've never seen a third worlder swing a baby by its arms. I've seen them grab them under one armpit and whisk them up onto their back, but never grab them by the hands and do it. Maybe they do it, just like here some do it, but that doesn't mean it's good for them.

As far as the _Continuum Concept_, much of her "observations" were disputed by other, more respected anthropologists. That author said that babies there rolled around near fires with sharp knives lying around. Other anthropologists said this was never observed by anyone else. Either way, I didn't allow my Dd to roll around open fire pits with free access to sharp knives.


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## starlein26 (Apr 28, 2004)

i remember when i was around 7 my dad pulling on my little sister's arm who was 3 at the time to help her up and her arm got dislocated. my poor sister was so upset and so sad, all she wanted to do was suck her thumb but she couldn't because that was the dislocated arm and i just remember her crying a lot. they managed to pop her arm back in and the doctor told my mom that this is a common injury in young children so from then on my mom was always real anal about arm pulling...

so i guess my advice is: it's better to do the swinging holding on to a different part of the body...


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## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

My dad used to do it with my brother and I all the time, before his accident, my uncles did it too. It was fun. I can see how it could be bad though, but the Merry-Go-Round at the playground _could_ be unsafe, accidents happen all the time, no matter what you do, thats why they are called accidents. *shrug* good plan about the armpit holding though!


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## mamallama (Nov 22, 2001)

My dd (then 3.5) and I spent Christmas Eve in the ER last year due to a dislocated elbow. The amount of pain she was in was unreal.

Dh's sister was swinging her around by her arms--just like she always did--and that one time it ended very badly.

The ER nurse told me that once it happens one time, it's a lot more likely to happen again. She demonstrated the quick fix for me.

I'd heard the arm swinging warnings before, but I thought it was a bunch of overprotective nonsense--until my dd got hurt.


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## kamilla626 (Mar 18, 2004)

My understanding is that most children's rotator cuffs (shoulder sockets) aren't completely developed until they're 4 or 5. Before that age, some children's arms can be dislocated very easily.

We are also pretty lax about letting dd climb everywhere, run in the house, walk barefoot outside - all things that could lead to an accident.

But we never swing her by the arms. I would hate to accidentally cause such a painful injury.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RubyWild*
I've never seen a third worlder swing a baby by its arms. I've seen them grab them under one armpit and whisk them up onto their back, but never grab them by the hands and do it..

So you've been to a third world country? Where?

I think that the reason kids arms get dislocated is because of the parent and child not being aware of their bodies.









The Continuum Concept is a very highly regarded book here on MDC. I think the author has some very useful observations, but I think we need to take into account, the different circumstances here than in the jungles of brazil.


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## Rivka5 (Jul 13, 2005)

My little sister had her shoulder dislocated by swinging between two adults who were each holding one hand. So that wasn't even from centrifugal force pressure of spinning around and around - it was just swinging in a straight line. She was about two at the time.

So, no swinging by the arms for my baby. We do our rough-and-tumble play in other ways. I will pick her up by gripping both upper arms, but not by gripping her hands.

I see some people saying that all kinds of things might hurt a child, so they don't worry too much about swinging. I draw a line between letting my kid do things that might hurt her (for example, climbing on playground equipment) and actually DOING something to her, myself, that has a more-than-minimal chance of causing injury.


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## Mylittlevowels (Feb 16, 2005)

Uh-oh.
No doing that anymore














:
Unfortunately, my 2 year old dd loves it. Bad mommy


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## Thursday Girl (Mar 26, 2004)

i think a lot of the moms who said " lots if things could hurt my child so i'll do this anyways" might not have known the harm or the commoness of these injuries from this action. i for one used to say that about spinning Jewely i had no idea how common it was. I originally planned on starting this post to show my mom how little the arms poppiong out of socket or the child accidentally being released happened. i had no idea it was so common. on the testimony of all you fine ladies i will no longer spin my dd by the nads but will do so under her arms. i would never do something that could hurt my child so badly so easily is the thing. i thought my mom was just being overprotective and paranoid. but moms do tend to know whats best.

thank you for all the responses too

courtney


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

I was given "airplane rides" as a kids, gave them to cousins, siblings, ds1 and nothing ever happened. I always heard that it *could* happen, but it never did.


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## zoe398 (Jul 8, 2005)

Guilty as charged here. When my oldest DD was about 9 months, I was spinning her...pulled her elbow out, ER trip, docs sort of laughing at me, no insurance, I unknowingly popped it back, all in all TERRIBLE experience. With DD #3, it was her wrist. She decided she wanted to be held and dropped to the floor while I was holding her hand. Knowing what happened, I gave her some Arnica and massaged her arm. Boy can that make you feel like an awful mom!


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## kamilla626 (Mar 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jewelysmommy*
... on the testimony of all you fine ladies i will no longer spin my dd by the *nads* but will do so under her arms...









:








I'm going to assume that's a typo, and you meant "hands".


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## Attached Mama (Dec 4, 2005)

I had my arm come out of socket when I was 4 and a neighbor teen was swinging me by the arems. Very painful!! Happened to me another time also. Then the same thing happened to me sister when her K teacher was trying to pick her up by the arms (playing). So I'm very much against it. Trust me, it really hurts!


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## Thursday Girl (Mar 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kamilla626*







:








I'm going to assume that's a typo, and you meant "hands".

oh my that may be the funniest typo ever.

see my siggy below maybe i should go against that siggy every once in awhile.

courtney


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## jannjoe (Nov 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jewelysmommy*
. and has the child's arm ever been dislocated

I dislocated my daughter wrist twice in play. Both times I took her to emerg... not pretty. I felt sooo bad. First time I picked her up with her hanging onto my thumbs and my hands wrapped tightly around her hands, second time, she was lieing on my bed after a diaper change I grabbed her feet and waist and held them togetherand was swinging back and forth, she loved it, until she started to cry. Doctor told me dislocation childrens limbs happen quiet often...so often in fact he didn't even report me either time. He said alot of times it happens as you ever walk holding hands with a new walker..and they "fall" and you hold them up so they don't fall sort of thing.
I like your mother now squirm and even speak up when I see this sort of thing happen, and I share my story.
It really hurts to know you hurt your child.


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## Maman*Musique (May 13, 2005)

nak

no arm swinging for us. i had a dislocated sholder as a kid, from arm swinging.


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