# More questions in post 14 Car seat on international flight



## Flower of Bliss (Jun 13, 2006)

It looks like we'll be doing a trip to Hong Kong in about 5 weeks! I have almost no time to plan and so much to figure out. The flight will be 13-16 hours long (plus a shorter flight in the states on the front end). DD1 will be newly 4 years old, roughly 36 lbs and 37 in tall. She currently RF in a CA in my car and FF in a Nautilus in DH's car. DD2 will be 12 months. I think she's about 18 lbs??? Pretty little. She rides RF in a Boulevard in both cars, though we do have a Snugride that I'm pretty sure she'd still fit in (definitely by weight).

Once there, we'll be using mass transit. I honestly don't expect to use car seats at all there. So, my inclination is to not bring them... but then again, I'm wondering about the plane ride. A place to strap them in securely might be wonderful.

We have a graco lightweight stroller I could put the bucket seat in, as well as a Maclaren umbrella stroller. I rarely use them, and it sounds like HK isn't super stroller friendly, so I'm not sure if I should bring one at all.

We'll definitely be buying a seat for DD2. Our tickets aren't booked, and likely DH's company will do the actual booking.

So, should I bring car seats for both of them? Just DD2? Neither of them? Which seats should I bring? Do I need different seats? Or special accessories?


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## tabrizia (Oct 24, 2007)

Does the 12 month old sleep in her car seat? If she does I would probably bring it for her. I won't bother for the 4 year old though especially if you know you won't be using a car while there. Carting around 1 car seat that you never use once you get to your destination is a bit of a pain, carting around 2 is a huge pain. A 4 year old should be fine on a plane with no car seat.

If the 12 month old is comfortable in their car seat and falls asleep in it though it is really nice to have for a longer flight since it gives you somewhere to put them and gives them somewhere familiar and comfortable to be.


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## snoopy5386 (May 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tabrizia* 
Does the 12 month old sleep in her car seat? If she does I would probably bring it for her. I won't bother for the 4 year old though especially if you know you won't be using a car while there. Carting around 1 car seat that you never use once you get to your destination is a bit of a pain, carting around 2 is a huge pain. A 4 year old should be fine on a plane with no car seat.

If the 12 month old is comfortable in their car seat and falls asleep in it though it is really nice to have for a longer flight since it gives you somewhere to put them and gives them somewhere familiar and comfortable to be.

Ditto. If it were me, I'd probably do no seats.


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

If the 12 mo fits in the snugride I would bring that and nothing for the 4yo.

But, I would check with your airline because some international lines have their own rules for car seats.


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## leighi123 (Nov 14, 2007)

Are you only going to take busses?
The taxi's and airport to hotel shuttles mostly have seatbelts, so you would need carseats for those.

I was born in HK and lived there for 14years and go back often (although not sense ds was born!). My dad is there now on buisness. If you need any info about HK itself, pm me, I love it there!


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## russsk (Aug 17, 2007)

I would take a seat for the 12 mo. My DS is so much more content on a plane in a carseat. I can't imagine how wiggly he'd be without one.


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## Flower of Bliss (Jun 13, 2006)

I'm wondering about taking a seat that would fit either kid... DD1 sleeps really well in her seat on long car rides. DD2 is easy to nurse down and hold in my lap while she sleeps.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leighi123* 
Are you only going to take busses?
The taxi's and airport to hotel shuttles mostly have seatbelts, so you would need carseats for those.

I was born in HK and lived there for 14years and go back often (although not sense ds was born!). My dad is there now on buisness. If you need any info about HK itself, pm me, I love it there!

Thank you for the offer. I might take you up on it. We found out about the trip on Monday, and we're still working out hotel logistics to see if we can get accomodations on the company that would fit all 4 of us. If we can, we're all going. I have so much to figure out between now and Sept 3 when we leave









We'll be there for almost 3 weeks. It sounds like the only time we might have seat belts would be the ride to and from the airport. Since there are lots of options for airport to/from hotel, I figured we'd just take a no seat belt option. Once at the hotel, it looks like we'd mostly use the MTR. I read a few blurbs about car seats not being required and being expected to put kids in laps for taxi rides. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with that... The idea of installing 2 seats and hauling them around would certainly negate any added convenience of taking a taxi instead of public transportation.


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

You could take one carseat for the plane-- one that would fit both, as you describe, for the reasons you describe-- and a small low-back booster as well. Then if you HAD to use a vehicle with seatbelts at some point, you could make do with the car seat for the younger one and the booster for the older one, even though that would obviously not be ideal.


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## Flower of Bliss (Jun 13, 2006)

Looks like I'll be doing no car seats...

Quote:

Approved car-type child seats may be used for child *under three years* but not less than six months of age. ... The seat must be *forward facing* and secured to the aircraft passenger seat by means of the aircraft safety belt.
So I could bring a convertible for DD2 and install it forward facing, but I don't think she'd sleep well in it. She'll sleep better in my lap (as she's doing right now). I might try to do a CARES harness for her and/or DD1.


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## leighi123 (Nov 14, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Flower of Bliss* 
I'm wondering about taking a seat that would fit either kid... DD1 sleeps really well in her seat on long car rides. DD2 is easy to nurse down and hold in my lap while she sleeps.

Thank you for the offer. I might take you up on it. We found out about the trip on Monday, and we're still working out hotel logistics to see if we can get accomodations on the company that would fit all 4 of us. If we can, we're all going. I have so much to figure out between now and Sept 3 when we leave









We'll be there for almost 3 weeks. It sounds like the only time we might have seat belts would be the ride to and from the airport. Since there are lots of options for airport to/from hotel, I figured we'd just take a no seat belt option. Once at the hotel, it looks like we'd mostly use the MTR. I read a few blurbs about car seats not being required and being expected to put kids in laps for taxi rides. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with that... The idea of installing 2 seats and hauling them around would certainly negate any added convenience of taking a taxi instead of public transportation.

Maybe use an infant seat for the baby and a RSTV for the older child...

I rode in a moses basket until I was 7months old and then was in a FF britax for a while, but mostly no one wears seatbelts/uses carseats.
On the busses, there are HUGE 2 story ones, and smaller ones, and tiny ones. All of them move slow and no seatbelts, so those would be fine for the kids. From the airport though, the majority of people take a cab or hotel shuttle, or get a driver. You arent going to get a big public bus from the airport.
MTR is good for around the city, and of course no child restraints needed for that (your lucky if you get a seat at all!), but it all depends on what you plan on doing while you are there. There are a lot of places where it would be nice to take a taxi, although you can take a bus. Taxis are super cheep there.
Depends on where you will be, but yeah a lot of places are not fun for strollers w/crowds and hills everywhere! But I was thinking maybe you could get a snap and go, use the infant seat for the baby and the RSTV for the older child, and that way you arent carrying 2 carseats around when you get where you are going.
And if you go to Ocean Park its nice to have a stoller there (you can rent one I think), its a lot of walking. GO THERE, it is awsome for the kids! They have a big aquarium and its kinda like seaworld, but they also have a big area that has the traditional chinese stuff, exibits and shows and a big boat to climb on and stuff like that.
Stanley market is the best place to do shopping if you plan on that, for trinkets/souveniers and clothes and all kinds of cheap brand name stuff.
And take the kids for a ride on Star Ferry, that is fun too!
And up to the Peak to ride the tram

Hotels - stay at the Conrad! You can take the lift downstairs and there is food and all kinds of stuff right there. Its super nice and its convienent.

Can you tell I miss HK? I wanna go back! Can I come with you?







Let me know if you have any questions, I'd be happy to help!


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## leighi123 (Nov 14, 2007)

Oh and if you do a snap + go with infant seat, you could gate check that, keep the baby on your lap on the plane, and rent or borrow a CARES for your older kiddo.


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## Adventuredad (Apr 23, 2008)

If you find it more convenient with a car seat on board for the little one bring it. Or if you will be needed car seats on the ground.

Using car seats purely for safety on board is not necessary, the difference in safety is so small it's irrelevant, since flying is the safest things we can ever do with our children. All kinds of research, stats and real life experiences show this. FAA has some excellent stats showing just how safe flying is without a car seat

I have done lots of long transatlantic trip with my two kids when they were tiny. Mostly Europe-NYC or Europe-Mexico (long flights) We always preferred keeping out little ones in the lap, most of the time there would be empty seats anyway. We prefer bulk head seats for the extra space.

My preference on board would be relaxing with a bottle of wine and a book but that's not so easy with kids

Have a nice trip!


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## leighi123 (Nov 14, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Adventuredad* 
Using car seats purely for safety on board is not necessary, the difference in safety is so small it's irrelevant, since flying is the safest things we can ever do with our children. All kinds of research, stats and real life experiences show this. FAA has some excellent stats showing just how safe flying is without a car seat

I totally agree with this. As a CPST I'm supposed to tell everyone its way safer to use a seat on the plane for turbulence/plane crashes and stuff, but honestly I dont agree with all that.

I have been on over 200 flights in my lifetime (probably way more than that, sense I last calculated this number was a few years ago), and my dad goes on 10+ flights a month. Neither of us has EVER been on a flight where a carseat would have been a safety issue one way or another. And I have been on one flight with an emergancy landing (landing gear failed, tail flaps froze, we had to divert to a longer runway w/sandbags at the end of it to stop the plane. I was 3 and in a lap belt, my sister was a newborn and they had my mom put her on the floor in a basket thing with coats over her, we were all fine!), and I've been on tones of flights with scary turbulence, but nothing that would send a kid flying as long as they had a seatbelt or were being held.

It can be, however, more comfortable for your child. And the saftey issue comes into play when you check a seat as baggage which is just scary! If you are bringing carseats, your kiddos should ride in them. If you dont need carseats when you get there, then you dont need to bring them just for the plane.

But I do think, in HK you might need them.

Another idea would be to use a booster for your older child, although I wouldnt use a booster day to day for that age/size, in HK with the driving situation, I would be ok with that if your child can sit properly. (and in the back of a taxi you would be next to her to be reminding of seating position and stuff.. )


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## Flower of Bliss (Jun 13, 2006)

Ok, I'm going crazy trying to figure out the car seat thing here. I've pretty much determined I won't use them on the flight. Friends have offered to loan me two CARES harnesses and a Baby B'Air. I'll research both items more and decide what I want to use for which child when.

I have no clue what I'll need or how they'll work once I'm there. We'll be there for 18 days. DH will be working full time, so I'll be with the girls solo. I don't know anyone there. We'll just be doing stuff I come up with for us to do







I'm trying to envision how I could use car seats... Leave hotel carrying 2 seats wearing DD2, and keeping up with DD1, hail taxi and install both seats, then where do I go??? In the front?? No way I could fit between the two car seats. I've never ridden in a taxi







Ok, so say I work all of that out, but then I get where we're going - a museum, a street market, a public park, a theme park, whatever. I take out the 2 seats, and carry them around?? While wearing DD2, carrying a diaper bag, and keeping up with DD1









My absolute best idea would be to bring the snugride for DD2, a lowback booster for DD1 (which would never in a million years be my car seat choice for her), and my graco stroller. So, booster in basket, snugride in stroller. I find it doubtful that DD2 would ride in the snugride in the stroller. DD1 would be unable to ride the stroller at all (and really she's my most likely stroller rider). I'd be pushing a stroller around just to carry the car seats. I very rarely use strollers since I find baby wearing much easier. I figured we'd sometimes take the stroller so I could put the diaper bag in it and have a place DD1 could ride if she got tired or DD2 could ride if she wanted down.

And can you install a car seat in a bus at all? I've never been on a mass transit style bus. Would it sit still waiting for me to install a seat??

So, it sounds easier to me to just ride the MTR (subway), but then again, I've never been on a subway either







And I've never been to Hong Kong. Everything I've read implies that the MTR is easy, cheap, and can get you anywhere.

Keeping my kids safe is a super high priority. I have my 4 year old RF. I'm just at a loss here.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Well, first let me say I don't fly without car seats. I believe the NTSB's stance on the matter. But, I can understand that they would be super inconvenient for the trip. I'd probably bring the Snugride on the plane, and put a backless booster in the overhead bin, just so you have seats *just in case* you need them. The 4 yo would be fine in a CARES harness. I wouldn't go on a taxi, ever, without seats. If you do take a taxi somewhere, take the seats, and yes it would be a pain, but it's simply not an option to not use seats. Otherwise, I would take the bus or metro everywhere, since that is super safe and does not require (or allow, for that matter







) car seats.


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## Flower of Bliss (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
I wouldn't go on a taxi, ever, without seats. If you do take a taxi somewhere, take the seats, and yes it would be a pain, but it's simply not an option to not use seats. Otherwise, I would take the bus or metro everywhere, since that is super safe and does not require (or allow, for that matter







) car seats.

Just to clarify, I wouldn't ride a taxi without my girls in car seats either. I figured I'd just not ride taxis. I guess my real issue is that I have no time to plan and very little information with which to plan. It so hard to know if we'd ever ride a taxi at all.

Can you clarify about buses with seatbelts? What should I do with the girls on those? No car seats? Buckle them both? Buckle myself and hold the baby?


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## TheGirls (Jan 8, 2007)

Most mass transit busses do not have seatbelts. Often many of the passengers are standing anyhow. I'd put the baby on your back and carry a diaper bag you can sling over your shoulders so you can have two hands free in case you are standing. Then hold DD1 with one hand and the bus with the other. Though at 4yo, she can probably just be instructed to hold on on the bus. My 2yo can if she's in the right mood, lol. It helps if you kind of "trap" the child between a seat and yourself so they can't fall very far.

If you can get seats, all the better!

Personally, I prefer to just do mass transit in cities so I don't have to deal with carseats. We've never been to Hong Kong, but have visited quite a few US cities with DD (Seattle, NYC, Chicago, etc) and a few foreign cities before she was born (eastern Europe and China) and have never felt a need for a taxi. Mass transit seems to be better in large cities abroad than in the US.


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## Eclipsepearl (May 20, 2007)

If you are not flying a U.S. company, be very careful. Infant buckets are not allowed on a lot because the seat has to be ffing. This has NO safety logic whatsoever but that's the way they do it and you can't argue.

Remember you can't use the booster on the plane.

I used to live in HK and I don't see why you can't just mass-transit it the whole time. I did take cabs but only because of where I lived (not right on the MTR, very slow bus to our complex and heck, I was tired after a 14 hour San Fran trip!) I worked at the old Kai Tak airport, which was soon closed down after I left.

To get from and back to the new airport, you definitely want to avoid a cab. Way too far! This is a better option;
http://www.hongkongairport.com/eng/t...t-express.html

I would bring a stroller which folds up quickly and compactly. Other than that, baby wear. Don't buy a "Baby B'air". Total waste of money! A baby carrier does the same thing. You can't wear it on take-off and landing. Don't visit their site and it's full of mis-information (I'm a former Flight Attendant).

Normally, I'm all for car seats on airplanes but if you're flying a foreign company, and would be too complicated, don't mess with it. You'll end up being forced to luggage-check your car seat, risking damaging it (experience speaking) and it just wont get used that much in HK.

The majority of people in HK do NOT have a car and you'll see why when you're there. It's just so easy to get around with mass transit, which is safer and easier with kids than cramming into a cab, having him go to fast, showing up at the wrong place because he claims he didn't "understand" you (common ruse). Even though I could speak some Cantonese, I had someone write down the destination so they couldn't do this to me.

I loved HK and miss it too! Have a great time!!


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## Adventuredad (Apr 23, 2008)

Good advice from Eclipsepearl above.

- I personally would never put my young children (now 4 and 6.5) in a cab without car seats. We have brought our rear facing car seats on every single trip so far, done about 60+ flights so far, and it has worked very well. (oldest is now using HBB on trips)

- Using mass transit is extremely safe regardless if it's bus or train. All research and data show this.

- Safety on the plane is not an issue without car seats but it might be more comfortable for some kids to use them. Flying internationally with car seats is a nightmare since rules vary by country and also by airline.

- HK has excellent public transportation, I would stick with that. This is what we mostly do when in cities such as NYC

Have a nice trip!


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## Flower of Bliss (Jun 13, 2006)

Eclipsepearl, thank you for your Hong Kong local experience. It seems like I can avoid taxis just fine while there. I'm wondering about buses. It sounds like some of the buses have seatbelts and a law about wearing them on the bus. I'm having trouble finding any info about kids on these buses. Can anyone help?

At the moment I'm wavering between bringing the Snugride and a backless booster (though neither could be used on the flight), so that if we're ever in the position of needing to get in a car/taxi we're covered, or leaving the seats at home.

Can I just push a stroller onto the MTR? Or will I need to fold it? I'm planning to bring a Graco Metrolite stroller with me. It has a good size basket and cup holders, both girls fit in it, it reclines, it's pretty light weight, and very stable. However, it's not too small folded (though it does stand when folded). I do also have a Maclaren Volo, which is folds smaller and has a shoulder strap, but tiny basket, no cup holders, it's tippy when carrying stuff instead of kids, and the straps don't fit my little one well yet. Those are the two options I own. I might consider buying a different one if there's a really good reason. Any opinions?

Also, could I use the CARES harness for DD2 even though she's under 22 lbs? Just to help her stay in a seatbelt on the seat? I'm not buying the CARES or the Baby B'Air, but I have offers to borrow both. My friend told me not to said she likes the Baby B'Air because on long flights she feels like she can go to sleep without worrying about her baby falling out of her lap.


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## snoopy5386 (May 6, 2005)

I would do the volo for your stroller, much easier to deal with. Chances are you'll have to fold it on public transportation, certainly on a bus. For the tippy factor, get a $5 set of ankle weights and strap them to the front legs right above the wheels. Totally solves the tipping problem, I've had mine on for 4 years.


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## leighi123 (Nov 14, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Flower of Bliss* 
Ok, I'm going crazy trying to figure out the car seat thing here. I've pretty much determined I won't use them on the flight. Friends have offered to loan me two CARES harnesses and a Baby B'Air. I'll research both items more and decide what I want to use for which child when.

I have no clue what I'll need or how they'll work once I'm there. We'll be there for 18 days. DH will be working full time, so I'll be with the girls solo. I don't know anyone there. We'll just be doing stuff I come up with for us to do







I'm trying to envision how I could use car seats... Leave hotel carrying 2 seats wearing DD2, and keeping up with DD1, hail taxi and install both seats, then where do I go??? In the front?? No way I could fit between the two car seats. I've never ridden in a taxi







Ok, so say I work all of that out, but then I get where we're going - a museum, a street market, a public park, a theme park, whatever. I take out the 2 seats, and carry them around?? While wearing DD2, carrying a diaper bag, and keeping up with DD1









My absolute best idea would be to bring the snugride for DD2, a lowback booster for DD1 (which would never in a million years be my car seat choice for her), and my graco stroller. So, booster in basket, snugride in stroller. I find it doubtful that DD2 would ride in the snugride in the stroller. DD1 would be unable to ride the stroller at all (and really she's my most likely stroller rider). I'd be pushing a stroller around just to carry the car seats. I very rarely use strollers since I find baby wearing much easier. I figured we'd sometimes take the stroller so I could put the diaper bag in it and have a place DD1 could ride if she got tired or DD2 could ride if she wanted down.

And can you install a car seat in a bus at all? I've never been on a mass transit style bus. Would it sit still waiting for me to install a seat??

So, it sounds easier to me to just ride the MTR (subway), but then again, I've never been on a subway either







And I've never been to Hong Kong. Everything I've read implies that the MTR is easy, cheap, and can get you anywhere.

Keeping my kids safe is a super high priority. I have my 4 year old RF. I'm just at a loss here.
















Things to do:
Hong Kong Park - its awsome and you can spend a full day there!
Ocean Park - like seaworld only with asian stuff too, big kiddie area
Ride the Star Ferry - just because its fun
Sanley market - fun place to shop, fun little stuff for kiddos to look at
Go to Macau for a couple days on the boat, rent a moke, go to sentosa... its fun!
museums
planatariam (they have kids shows)
repulse bay beach is pretty nice now
maybe get a guest pass to the american club (pool, kids indoor/outdoor playground, food, etc)
go see a play if they have anything good showing

In the taxi - you dont have to hail one, they are EVERYWHERE including right outside hotels, lined up on the side of the road, etc. It is not like you have to stand outside waving your arms or anything, just walk outside and there will be one!

Yes, you sit in the front seat, we always had a family of 4 in them no problem. If you are leaving from a hotel, you can request a van style one instead if you want to sit in the back.

I would go with the bucket seat + booster (or even better, safer and easier to carry RSTV).

MTR is not hard to use, they make it very easy actually, signs are in english and someone will speak english there (I never learned mandarin and I traveled around HK alone by the time I was 8yrs old), the only issue is it only really goes around the city, so most of the kid friendly places you wouldnt be able to get to using it, and even if you can get close you probably still would want to take a cab or bus to your destination.

Busses do not have seatbelts at all, so no carseats of any kind will work, they are also not nessisary on busses to begin with.


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## leighi123 (Nov 14, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Eclipsepearl* 
The majority of people in HK do NOT have a car and you'll see why when you're there. It's just so easy to get around with mass transit, which is safer and easier with kids than cramming into a cab, having him go to fast, showing up at the wrong place because he claims he didn't "understand" you (common ruse).

Our family had 2 cars while we lived there, but I took the bus pretty much everywhere, but when I did take taxis, I NEVER had an issue with them taking me to the wrong place or claim anything weird like that, I've never even heard of that happening - if you give the name of where you are going, they take you there! I lived there 14 years and dont know a word of mandarin and never had an issue, even as a kid traveling around alone or with my little sister.
There are some places where a taxi is a lot easier than a bus for sure!

OP - I would bring seats for sure, and then plan day by day weather or not you need them, and just try to do busses as much as you can.


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## Eclipsepearl (May 20, 2007)

Yes, I wasn't the only one it happened to. I think many tourists (and newly arrived residents) have this happen to them and they don't realize that the taxi took a longer route. We were several hundred of us working there and it was a common complaint. We might have been obvious targets because we were arriving at the airport, so they didn't realize we lived there.

The best way to avoid this is have where you're going written down. They're happy to do this at the hotels. You can also ask how much it's supposed to cost approximately.

Btw, the language used in Hong Kong is Cantonese, not Mandarin. Some taxi drivers speak some English and/or Mandarin.

I think the majority of places can be reached by public transport. Most people living there don't have a car (I can't name a single coworker who did but I know some rich expats did). They have those double decker buses, as well as street trams, which are very safe. They have their own tracks so accidents are unlikely. Unlike other cities in Asia, Hong Kong is not that spread out. There's a bay and a mountain in the middle of it... This means it's easier to orient yourself and less likely to get on the wrong one. In some cities, their route maps look like spider webs but in HK, it's much more straightforward.

I found this good site;
http://www.hong-kong-travel.org/Hong...ransportation/

The other plus is that you'll save major money by taking public transportation. Security is not a big issue but you'll naturally keep an eye on your kids. Take reasonable precautions against pickpockets.

Just to get back to the flight, it's not true that car seats make NO difference. This claim has been made by people who never worked for the airlines. I can assure you, having had to see the ugly pictures that they DON'T release to the press, that there have been children who would have been saved if they had been in a car seat. Some accident details are not made public so don't get into the "show me proof" mentality.

Luckily, these cases are few and far between. We were told that the FAA estimates that in 30 years, perhaps 30 children killed would have survived if they had been in a car seat. Don't ask me to confirm this because I was sitting in a classroom. Then they said that about 10 MILLION children a year PER YEAR arrive safely at their destinations in their parents' laps. Not much comfort to those who did lose children but in practical terms, this are impressive stats.

So please don't say it wouldn't make _any_ difference. That's just plain wrong. There are other issues, like not checking car seats as luggage so they wont be damaged and some very big pluses on comfort while flying that add to the case for using a car seat on board.

What I can confirm with you is that while it's _always_ safer to have a car seat on board, if you do a realistic risk assessment, and you don't need to get the car seats to your destination, then not taking them is a reasonable alternative. The chances of anything going wrong on the flight are very slim and the old child has at least a lap belt. When I flew to England once, my friends had car seats waiting at our destination and the airline did not allow car seats at all in the cabin (U.S. companies couldn't impose such a rule) so my 2 yo flew in a lap belt. My only other choice was not go but we did. Ideal? no. Safe overall? yes.

I would skip the Baby B'air. If you have a baby carrier, it does the exact same thing. You can't use either for take-off and landing. Your child is much safer LOOSE in your lap. Attached to you during those two phases of the flight is dangerous. During the _cruise_ portion of the flight, you can use your baby carrier instead of the B'Air since it does the same thing. Just one extra, unnecessary item to drag around...


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## leighi123 (Nov 14, 2007)

HK's 'official' language is all 3, english, mandarin and cantonese. While Cantonese was more popular for a long time, sense 1998 they have been promoting mandarin big time, and its what is taught in schools, used for public anouncments, etc. Thats what they taught in my school, I had to learn it for all 10 years that I went to it.


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