# Please tell me nightweaning gets easier!



## Comtessa (Sep 16, 2008)

We're using Jay Gordon's night weaning method. It seems gentle and sensible. We cosleep and DD (16 months) has been nursing all night. It's just not working for me, esp. now that I'm pregnant -- the constant nursing is super painful and it's keeping me awake all night. I'm exhausted all.the.time and something has to change. I don't want to wean altogether, but nightweaning seemed to be a sensible idea at this point.

I thought that this gradual, gentle method would be ok, but *boy* did I underestimate my determined little toddler. I was in tears for most of the night. The first time I popped her off the breast and tucked it away, she looked at me in horror, pushed her hand into my face and started signing "Milk" in absolute panic. (Like "Maybe Mama just doesn't _understand_ that I need to nurse...") Then, when I said, "we can have milk in the morning, mama's breasts are going night-night now," she absolutely lost it. She must have cried for half an hour, big heartbreaking sobs, and kept trying to pry my breasts out of my shirt to nurse. It was _awful_... and it repeated every couple of hours All.Night.Long.

I've never ever refused to nurse her before. I feel like the worst mama in the world to distress my baby so much. Please... somebody... just tell me this gets easier and she won't be permanently harmed by it!!!


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## porcelina (May 2, 2007)

They say you need several nights of consistency before behavior will change, so I'm sure it will get better. I totally know how you feel with being pregnant!

That said, we tried to nightwean DS with this plan at 15, 18 months and I think 22 months. Each time, he was up for 2-3 hours at each waking, screaming and crying most of the time. When things didn't improve on the 4th night, I gave up each time. Finally, at around 25 months, he was able to deal with it, and went back to sleep with stories and distraction within about 30 minutes at each wake up (we did "cold turkey" instead of gradual, at that point). Granted, he was waking every 2 hours all night long until then, always wanting to nurse. However, he still held out for the feeding wake-up between 4.30-5.30. We tried on several occasions to get rid of it, but after several weeks of him screaming for an hour between those hours, and often just waking for the day, I gave up. Even pregnant, it was easier to give him that feeding. Now I do 2 mins each side at that wake up and then soy milk, and that works for us.

The weird thing is that he totally gets it during the day -- he tells us, if you wake up at night and it's dark, you go back to sleep. Nursie in the morning! But, at 4.30-5.30 in the morning, there is no rationality or intellectual understanding, it's just an emotional need and he protests adamantly.

Now expecting #2 in a couple of days or weeks, and not sure how it's going to all work out, but know this is what this guy needs for now.


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

We nightweaned via Jay Gordon as well, but we took about a month to do it rather than 10 days. Also, DS was 19 months old and he is ahead verbally so he really understood what was going on.. ("mama is very tired, let's go back to sleep" etc) He never cried once, so I know he was ready. Your DD may not quite be ready, but I understand your exhaustion (we also nightweaned due to pregnancy). I would keep at it, she will eventually "get it" and stop crying, if this is something you really need to do. I will say that nightweaning worked AMAZING for us. DS went from waking every hour to only waking 1-2 times a night by the end of the month, and now (6 months later) even STTN most nights. We also moved him to his own bed and had DH handle wakeups after we nightweaned.








good luck!


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## dosergirl (Feb 6, 2009)

I have no words of wisdom for you other then thank you for letting me know some things to expect. DD is going to be 12 months next week and night weaning is something that has been crossing my mind now that she is getting older, much like your LO I think she will not handle it well at all.

You are not a terrible mother! I know I would feel the same way because I too have never refused her. Hugs for you mama. Please keep us updated with your progression because I am learning from you all!


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## Shanny2032 (Aug 10, 2009)

I don't know the details of the plan as I have never read it and we did cold turkey. For us it worked SO much better than I thought it would. It was literally like the first time I said "no more milk at night" and stuck to it a light bulb went off for her and she fought the whole thing VERY little. I don't know if it would have been any different had we tried earlier (she is 21 months) or if it was easier because she is very verbal and really can be talked to about things or what but it has been 2, maybe 3 weeks and she is now sleeping through the night - something I wondered if I would ever say! Good luck - I know I just made it sound like a picnic but we did have a few rough nights but sticking it out was so worth it to so I hope it is for you too!


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## rzberrymom (Feb 10, 2005)

Could your DH help out with cuddling her back to sleep? I found that helped when I nightweaned my DD, since being with me meant nurse nurse nurse.

The first night was the worst for us, but it got better quickly.


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## MamaLaura2 (Sep 12, 2010)

Hi Comtessa,
This will be long! I'm in need of help as well with this same issue. It looks like this age group has a hard time sleeping and I need to be patient in the process. Dont we all wish there was a quick fix? I dont know where we get more patience, but somehow we keep trying. I find that some days one thing works and the next day it doesnt work. Maybe you have heard Elizabeth Pantley call it a dance of 1 step forward and 2 steps back. I feel like that. It feels like a lonely place when you're in it but it must get better.

I'll share with you what I've done so far. My son is 17 months old and breastfeeding to sleep. I'm 4 months pregnant and want to be done nursing him to sleep. I've thought about CIO many times but it wouldnt work. My strong-willed child just cries forever and it goes against my instincts and hurts me too much. I dont want a disconnected child so I choose to stay attached. I'll tell you that I continue to try to help my son to sleep instead of ignore him because there are so many ppl out there telling me it gets better, this too shall pass and evidence from happy kids I know. I've followed Elizabeth Pantley's No Cry Sleep Solution plan off and on and just read her Toddler and preschool book. It is very encouraging and helpful to understand babies sleep and how to establish a routine for both nap and bedtime. But it takes much longer with my son than what she says. Here is the latest.

Since being pregnant, I can only nurse for 5-10 minutes until it hurts. I have been very gradual with weaning him and shortening the feedings and eliminated feedings during the day. We stay busy during the day and out of the house if possible so he doesnt ask for it. Sometimes he was okay with a shorter nursing but recently he knows I'm going to take him off and pushes my hand away. At this point, I dont feel like I have any say in the matter when it comes to taking him off. He wants to nurse forever if we lay down to nurse. I read in Pantley's book that I can nurse in a different place rather than the bed as a way to break the association with nursing to sleep. This worked for the first few nights while I implemented Dr. Gordon's plan.

I followed Dr. Gordon's plan and it helped night wean to some extent. It's been 11 days since we started his plan but we got sick after 4 days and I resorted to nursing in bed when he woke. We co-sleep to put him to bed and then I move him to a mattress on the floor next to our bed once he is asleep a few hrs later when we come to bed. I didnt nurse from 11-5am. It was hard to have my son cry when he wanted to nurse at 2 or 3 am and we were tired but by the third night he wasnt crying as much. He didnt like it that I wouldnt nurse him but would eventually lay down and go to sleep if I pretended I was asleep. Sometimes he took a cup of water as a last resort. Then he got sick with the stomach flu and teething and he is waking up around 4 or 5 am and has to nurse to go back to sleep unless I want to be up at 4am for the day! We at least got the 2am waking eliminated with Gordon's method! I will go back to not nursing him in bed if he wakes before 5am. It will require more long nights of telling him to go to sleep, give him a cup and then pretend I am asleep but I have a dilemma I'll explain next.

I also changed to nursing on the couch in the living room before bedtime as part of his routine and then we go read a book in bed and then lay down and sometimes he goes to bed within the next 20 min. It took him a few nights to adjust. Some nights he would get back up and play. If he isnt ready for bed he will go back to the couch because he wants to nurse again. So based on his temperament, I nurse him again and then take him back to bed or tell him we are done nursing for the night and it's time for bed.

He is waking around 4 or 430 or 455am and gets up and immediately goes to the couch! He is wandering down the hall in the dark to get to the couch which isnt what we want. How do I break him of this? He wont come back to bed and go to sleep. We have now closed the bedroom door and he just cries at the door and wont come to bed. We have tried to hold his blanket in bed so he will stay in bed and he gets so mad that we wont release his blanket. He wont give in and lay down and try to go to sleep. This wakes him up completely. I want to be done nursing during night and early morning hrs but I've resorted to nursing him in the bedroom again just to put him to sleep so I'm not sure how Dr. Gordon's plan suggests weaning that 5am feeding. My next issues is that I've tried nursing him in bed at 5am which I didnt want to resort to but this doesnt put him back to sleep either for another hour so there is no point in offering to nurse him. This is also the case for naps. If I lay down and nurse him, he wants to nurse for a much longer extended nurse and wont let me remove the nipple.

Naps are another struggle right now. I am proactive in giving my son a lot of exercise throughout the day so he is ready for a nap and bedtime. He takes one nap at 10:45am-12:15. I cant push this nap later or he wont take a nap. He has no problem napping in the car but I cant continue to give him a nap with the car running in the AZ heat. I would love to have him nap at home around 12 but havent had success.

Since he was getting up, I tried to have him nap in a packnplay next to me while I laid down in bed and pretended I was asleep. He wouldnt settle down and attempt to lay down. He was so mad that he wasnt able to leave the room. So after becoming exhausted from crying, I knew he would fall asleep nursing while laying down so that's what we did. But I cant let him cry that hard just to exhaust him. I want to teach him that we nurse on the couch for a little bit before nap or bedtime and then we go lay down and relax and fall asleep together.

On another note, I really like the book, "Mothering Your Nursing Toddler". It helps me understand that I cant rush things and this relationship is special and doesnt last forever. But it does tell me that What it may come down to is my toddler just might not be ready to give up nursing to sleep, nursing at night, or cutting back on nursing sessions. At the same time, I am pregnant, and it may be hard for me to continue to nurse so much. Some moms stop trying to implement a new routine and wait a few months to see if their toddlers are ready then. Some moms set just a few limits on nursing and slowly introduce more as their toddlers adjust. This is basically what I'm doing and I feel Now is my time to cut back on nursing to sleep and he will eventually get used to it. It is just going to take a long time.

Hope this can help a little. Let me know if you have anything to add or questions about something I said. I'd love to help if I can...or maybe just relate to your situation.

Maybe there is someone else out there who has had success?

Laura


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## BabyMae09 (Sep 19, 2008)

I don't think she's ready. And she told you that pretty bluntly. I truly think you should wait for now, I really, really do. My DD was driving me crazy too, but I decided to give it another few weeks before trying to nightwean (after realizing she wasn't ready) and guess what? A few weeks later, in the course of TWO nights, she went from waking 8-12 times a night to nurse, to waking no more than 2 times. And it's been that way for a few weeks now.

Please, listen to your daughter







I know it's hard, I know your boobs hurt, but from the severity of your daughter's reaction, I'd have a hard time finding any reason to justify continuing to nightwean at this point. You're the grown-up, she's just a baby









I'm sorry if I sound harsh; I'm not trying to. I really do know it's hard, and I really do know you can continue to nurse her at night. Although I am not pregnant, I was planning our wedding while DD was having her waking 8-12 times a night, and I was dealing with health issues as well.

You can do it, I KNOW you can









What helped for me was remembering that she'll only be little once. And so every time I got frustrated, I smiled at her, told her I loved her, and tried to imagine what she'll look like as a teenager







THAT made me hold her close and pray for her to stay little


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## BabyMae09 (Sep 19, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *porcelina* 
They say you need several nights of consistency before behavior will change, so I'm sure it will get *better*. I totally know how you feel with being pregnant!

Now I do 2 mins each side at that wake up and then soy milk, and that works for us.

Better for who, the Mama or the Baby?

Soy milk has many negative attributes that a lot of people are not aware of. It's one of the most common allergens, can cause elevated levels of estrogen in anyone who consumes it regularly (leading to fertility problems later in life for men, and breast cancer in women) and on top of all that, vast swaths of the Amazon rain forest are being cut down in order to grow more soybeans.

I'll get off my soapbox now


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## BlackSheepPDX (Aug 28, 2008)

We nightweaned at 18 months. Our strategy was pretty much "cold turkey," with three nights of me sleeping in another room, and DH taking care of her through the night. She was used to getting comfort from him at night, so that wasn't an abrupt change, and it simply made more sense to remove me from the equation, so he could just offer comfort and water and get her back to sleep. It really wasn't stressful for any of us, and we were able to get away from nursing several times a night, and down to maybe a nursing around 5 am (which in part was due to my rowing schedule of leaving at that time a couple of times a week).

I was going to lose my mind from exhaustion with the multiple times a night nursings from a child who definitely did not need any nutrition during the night. Comfort and a beverage were what she needed, and we were able to provide both without involving my boobs.


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## BabyMae09 (Sep 19, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlackSheepPDX* 
I was going to lose my mind from exhaustion with the multiple times a night nursings from a child who definitely did not need any nutrition during the night. Comfort and a beverage were what she needed, and we were able to provide both without involving my boobs.

Yes, it was when I introduced more solids to DD's diet that she started sleeping better through the night. And also, when our routine calmed down a lot after our wedding and honeymoon (she was with us on the honeymoon) she went *literally* from waking at least 8 times a night to, the night after we got home from the honeymoon, waking only twice!

So, less stress around her or more solids, one of the two worked!


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## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

I tried Jay Gordon's method one night and gave in after DS sobbed/screamed for half an hour. For me, this method is too long, too drawn out, and *misses the point that a 16-month old baby simply can't understand why, if mommy is right there, she can't just give me the breast.*

We have a new method and it has worked well from the get-go: I sleep in a different room. When DS wakes up, papa tells him that mommy is not here and that he should go back to sleep. DS does a 2-minute (max) complaining cry and goes to sleep.

We did this 5 nights in a row and it got to the point where DS was just waking up once at about 4AM. Then DH left on a business trip, I'm back in the room with DS and we are back to square one. But I'm not worried. We'll just do the same thing again.


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

That sounds tough mama! I totally understand why you need to nightwean! And, I think you can be successful - but we didn't use Jay Gordon's method. So I'll tell you what we did, and it worked FAST - and I still think it was pretty gentle. But, my son's was 19mo, and understands every single thing I say to him. His biggest issue was also that he was getting so many calories at night, that was biggest adjustment - him eating tons more during the day.

We just stopped nursing at night. between 12am-5am I would say no, that nursing went night night, and he could have more in the morning. The first night was AWEFUL - b/c he was hungry. But, if I had nursed him, it never would have gotten better. And I was right there, trying to cuddle him, patting his back, shushing him, the whole deal. He woke up twice between 12-5. The next day he ate a TON - which was great! Then he woke up once, and it was still not fun, but not nearly as bad as the first night. The third night, he slept all night. I always offered him a sippy of water at first, but now he never takes it so I don't offer it unless he asks for it.

He doesn't always sleep all night now, but I don't have to nurse him back to sleep. I just cuddle him close, and shush him and we fall back to sleep together.


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## Beauchamp (Jan 12, 2009)

Comtessa,

Hey there! We were DDC buds.







I am soooooooo thinking about night weaning via Jay Gordon, too. We have canines coming in now, and I still nurse to sleep for every nap and bedtime. So, I am so hesitant. I have no advice, just a







and I hope it does get better for you. We are TTC again, too.

My major hangups are that I *know* my DD will not understand logic at 3am, and I wonder if she still needs that night time milk, plus I don't want our nursing relationship to really change because she is still my "little baby"...and I worry my supply will tank.

Sigh.

I hope it's going well for you.







Keep us posted!


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## Astraia (Jan 1, 2009)

I've been thinking about nightweaning via Jay Gordon as well, and was coming on here to ask questions about it... Between the two kids I'm up an average of 7 times in an 8 hour period, sometimes less sometimes more (highest count so far is 22 wake ups).

It would be one thing if she was up, nurse briefly, roll over and go back to sleep. But sometimes it's like, 20-45 minutes of nursing and then when I try to leave she starts freaking and shrieking and we're back to square one again... and then her brother wakes up... and then I have a meltdown. And then the entire day sucks because I'm still mad at her and I'm exhausted and she's exhausted. UGH.

(of course, some days I think about weaning entirely- like when she spends the whole day following me around screaming "BOOB!" and crying)

But after reading through.... Yeah, she's not ready. She can barely handle a "please wait" on a good day, nevermind a "Yes I'm here and no you can't" at 2 am. As desperate as I am for sleep, as angry as I can get after being awake for 3 hours in the middle of the night, I think we'd just be awake even MORE if I tried.


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## BabyMae09 (Sep 19, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thyra* 
The first night was AWEFUL - b/c he was hungry. But, if I had nursed him, it never would have gotten better.

Um, if he's hungry, how does nursing him make it *not* any better?

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but not feeding your baby when you know he is hungry is, um, not okay. Ever. Unless you meant he got actual food, not boob.

OP - your daughter isn't ready for nightweaning. She will be, very soon. I promise! Especially if you start offering more solids during the day









My DD likes hummus, bananas, avocado, quinoa, cheese, among other things, and all five of those are great first foods! Unlike the Gerber crud that has high fructose corn syrup in it









PS - When I did try to wean her using the Jay Gordon method, she freaked out too. She was just too young (15 months) to get it. Every Mama who has posted on you thread said they had much better luck at 18, 19, or 22 months. My DD is now 16 months, and voluntarily went from 8-10 times a night to 2, like I said earlier. But it happened because she was READY, and she was ready because she was eating more solids.


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## Marissamom (Dec 17, 2009)

this may seam like a harsh way to do it, but we stuck my 16 month old in her own room to sleep, and for the first time in her life she slept through the night. and has every night of the two weeks since. I knew we couldn't night wean in the same bed, and if she was in our room she would wake up to climb into our bed after a few hours and help herself all night. I think it was actually the easiest way for her. if she had woken up we would have brought her into our room, and were really expecting that to happen, but it never did. she's sleeping better in her own room then she was in ours, and I don't have her laying across me all night, which was really getting hard on my back as I'm entering my second trimester of pregnancy. It does put my mind at rest too, because I was worried about having both a toddler and a newborn wanting to sleep in my bed.


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BabyMae09* 
Um, if he's hungry, how does nursing him make it *not* any better?

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but not feeding your baby when you know he is hungry is, um, not okay. Ever. Unless you meant he got actual food, not boob.

Some babies get used to having those calories at night, even if they don't necessarily "need" them. At 18 months they can certainly get all of their calories during the day. If you continue to nurse them at night, they will continue to get calories and their body will continue to "need" calories at night. Once their body gets used to not eating during the night, they can sleep much easier.

Once we started nightweaning, my DS started eating a LOT more solids during the day. And once his body got used to not getting calories at night, he didn't need them anymore and he stopped waking up.


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## Astraia (Jan 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LadyCatherine185* 

Once we started nightweaning, my DS started eating a LOT more solids during the day. And once his body got used to not getting calories at night, he didn't need them anymore and he stopped waking up.


This is part of why nightweaning doesn't work for us, I think.... Nigella eats basically nothing during the day despite my best efforts (I always have food out for her, I'm constantly offering things, I'm always trying new foods to see if something really appeals to her, etc) and then is up every 2 hours at night to nurse, and nursing +/- every 2 hours during the day as well. Grr.

And I know if she would NOT nurse at night she'd eat more- once or twice she's slept really soundly and eats like a normal kid the next day- but I can't MAKE it happen.


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Astraia* 
This is part of why nightweaning doesn't work for us, I think.... Nigella eats basically nothing during the day despite my best efforts (I always have food out for her, I'm constantly offering things, I'm always trying new foods to see if something really appeals to her, etc) and then is up every 2 hours at night to nurse, and nursing +/- every 2 hours during the day as well. Grr.

And I know if she would NOT nurse at night she'd eat more- once or twice she's slept really soundly and eats like a normal kid the next day- but I can't MAKE it happen.









for us the only way to make it happen was to stop the nursing at night... "luckily" for me, my milk had started drying up from pregnancy so he gradually got used to less and less milk at night. It didn't take long for him to go from waking every HOUR at night, to only waking 2-3 times... like, within the first week. If it is working for you to nurse all night, don't change it, but if it isn't working, you CAN change it.. it just may take some time/effort and a few tears.


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## Anna GS (Mar 28, 2008)

I think the nightweaning experience seriously depends on the temperament of the child. It's hard to read the posts that say "oh, it worked for us" when you have a ruthlessly persistent and determined child who just won't take the fact that they aren't getting milk on demand. That was my child. I still have not succeeded in nightweaning, although a few things have improved for us.

A few months before my son turned 2 I decided to try nightweaning. I nursed him down for sleep and then at his first waking nursed him until he started to drift off again and unlatched him and said "milks are going to sleep, night night" and he awoke completely, started screaming at the top of his lungs, got up out of bed and walked all the way across the room in the dark and stood there screaming and screaming. I tried to go comfort him and he pushed me away. When he finally calmed enough to nurse again, of course I nursed him.

A few months later I tried the NCSS techniques, and he actually had a sleep regression. He started absolutely refusing to go to sleep for hours and hours. This lasted about a month.

At some point, in desperation, I started sleeping by myself in another room. DH does not do very much night parenting, definitely is not willing to learn to put DS to sleep without handing him to me for nursing, so I was on my own even though at this point he and DS were still cosleeping while I was across the house sleeping alone. DS began sleeping really well! But as a long term thing it was not the solution for us. I still had to sleep with the monitor on and get up to nurse him back down when he'd wake (which for most nights was not very often, thank goodness).

The next thing we tried was getting him a twin mattress and putting it near the foot of our bed. I was able to come out of self banishment and he transitioned to his own bed very well.

But, the most amazing thing was that someone told me about the counting technique. Apparently it comes from the NCSS but it was not in the book I read, which was the Toddlers/Preschoolers version. You say something like "We'll stop nursing in 10 seconds", and if it's at a time when you want the child to sleep you say something like "We'll stop nursing in 10 seconds, and then I'd like you to roll over and go to sleep" Then start counting as slowly or quickly as you wish. I have no idea why, but this works in a way that nothing else worked. Using it, we have actually been able to begin the process of breaking the nursing to sleep habit. DS is extremely responsive to the counting! And it's a calm, pleasant counting. Most of the time he rolls over before I even reach #3! And he honestly tries to sleep. Sometimes he can, sometimes not. If not, we nurse a little more and then try again. Over time, it has become easier and easier and he's become better at putting himself to sleep.

It's not total nightweaning, but it has made the situation much more tolerable for me and maybe in time it will help us with the total nightweaning. In any case it eliminated most of the drama that we were experiencing with my other attempts and I get to feel a little less exhausted by our nursing relationship. He's getting his 2 year molars which has definitely disturbed his sleep a lot these past couple of weeks, but other than that, he is often sleeping either through the night or waking only once to nurse and then going back to sleep when I ask him to.

Good luck in finding the method that will work for you and your child. It can really be an adventure with these persistent children!


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## BabyMae09 (Sep 19, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Anna GS* 
I think the nightweaning experience seriously depends on the temperament of the child. It's hard to read the posts that say "oh, it worked for us" when you have a ruthlessly persistent and determined child who just won't take the fact that they aren't getting milk on demand. That was my child. I still have not succeeded in nightweaning, although a few things have improved for us.

Yes, exactly! DD was very persistent, and still is when she wants to night nurse. That's why I didn't withhold it from her; because she so obviously wanted/needed it









Quote:


Originally Posted by *LadyCatherine185* 
Some babies get used to having those calories at night, even if they don't necessarily "need" them. At 18 months they can certainly get all of their calories during the day. If you continue to nurse them at night, they will continue to get calories and their body will continue to "need" calories at night. Once their body gets used to not eating during the night, they can sleep much easier.

Once we started nightweaning, my DS started eating a LOT more solids during the day. And once his body got used to not getting calories at night, he didn't need them anymore and he stopped waking up.

And some babies, like the OP's, who started signing frantically for milk, have an emotional need to nurse at night, as well as a possible nutritional need.

For babies who won't eat during the day, like a PP said, sure, it's *possible* for them to get their calories during the day, but what if they're not into it?


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BabyMae09* 

For babies who won't eat during the day, like a PP said, sure, it's *possible* for them to get their calories during the day, but what if they're not into it?

Well that's when the mama needs to make a choice of what is more important.. helping her child to sleep at night and eat during the day so that she can also sleep at night, or continue to feed baby at night until they no longer wake to nurse. Even if her baby may not *want* to get all of her calories during the day, she is old enough to adjust to that if it is what the family needs.


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LadyCatherine185* 
Well that's when the mama needs to make a choice of what is more important.. helping her child to sleep at night and eat during the day so that she can also sleep at night, or continue to feed baby at night until they no longer wake to nurse. Even if her baby may not *want* to get all of her calories during the day, she is old enough to adjust to that if it is what the family needs.

Exactly, and sometimes family needs trump babies needs. And babies at some point need to adjust to the family's needs. Sometimes it works to put babies needs way ahead of everyone elses - but if mom is in pain nursing b/c pf pregnancy and needs more sleep, then something has to give.


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BabyMae09* 
Um, if he's hungry, how does nursing him make it *not* any better?

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but not feeding your baby when you know he is hungry is, um, not okay. Ever. Unless you meant he got actual food, not boob.


So its really great that you can devote your entire life to your baby and not sleep at night. I'm a single mama, full time law student, and I'm going to be taking the bar in February. I can't nurse my kid all night long anymore. Something had to give, and it was the night nursing. Until I stopped nursing him at night, he was going to continue to need those calories during the night - and a method like Jay Gordon would have been awful for us. It works for some nursing relationships, but not ours.

ETA - I would not have done it if my kid had sn or was FTT or something. He's not. He's tall and heavy for his age, so its not like he was going to starve to death in those 5 hours. jeez.


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## BabyMae09 (Sep 19, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thyra* 
So its really great that you can devote your entire life to your baby and not sleep at night. I'm a single mama, full time law student, and I'm going to be taking the bar in February. I can't nurse my kid all night long anymore. Something had to give, and it was the night nursing. Until I stopped nursing him at night, he was going to continue to need those calories during the night - and a method like Jay Gordon would have been awful for us. It works for some nursing relationships, but not ours.

ETA - I would not have done it if my kid had sn or was FTT or something. He's not. He's tall and heavy for his age, so its not like he was going to starve to death in those 5 hours. jeez.

Did you miss the part about me dealing with health issues AND planning my wedding while my DD was waking 8-12 times a night? I don't 'devote my entire life' to it; just enough time for DD to decide when it was right *for her* to eat less at night.

And like I said, it's not about 'starving to death' it about emotional needs. The OP's baby told her through signing and vocally, that she wasn't ready. What works for you or I isn't the issue. It's about the OP's baby.

And we are still the grownups. The baby is a BABY. They don't know why we're withholding the breast, they don't know why Mommy suddenly is denying them something they've never been denied before.

So, you know, making assumptions isn't cool, especially since I already stated (a couple different times) that I was going through a lot as well, and still choose my DD's wishes above my own. Because she is a BABY and she'll only BE a baby once.

Why do women think it's so hard to persevere with night nursing for just another month or two? You can always try to nightwean if still needed after a few more days/weeks/whatever. The OP, and everyone else, don't have to do it NOW, unless it truly is a 'keeping my sanity' issue, in which case, nightweaning may or may not help, depending on how much your child freaks out about the sudden withholding of something they've had free access to.

I've been there. I was to the point one night where I had to walk out of the room, leaving DD to scream with DH. But I went back, and fed her, because that's what she NEEDED, and once again, I'm the grown-up here. By the way, the night that happened was two days before our wedding.

I know being a single Mama is hard. I did it for 6 years. I know you are trying to do the best you can.


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## BabyMae09 (Sep 19, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thyra* 
Exactly, and sometimes family needs trump babies needs. And babies at some point need to adjust to the family's needs. Sometimes it works to put babies needs way ahead of everyone elses - but if mom is in pain nursing b/c pf pregnancy and needs more sleep, then something has to give.

So, the baby, the most vulnerable, least cognizant person in the family, has to do what works for the people who are adults or children whom are capable of reasoning, understanding, and empathy?

I don't buy it.

I was in pain because of nursing, and I needed more sleep. Some nights I thought I was going to lose my mind - but then I remembered, DD is just a baby. She doesn't know that what she is doing is causing me to lose sleep. She just knows that, for whatever reason, she needs Mommy milk right now. And I fed her.

And like I said, a mere few weeks later, she VOLUNTARILY went from 8-12 times a night to 2-4, tops.

I am not trying to make myself look good, and I am totally aware that I am a completely imperfect person (although always working towards being better!). In fact, I am so imperfect, that I would purport that if I can do it, pretty much any Mommy can


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:

So, the baby, the most vulnerable, least cognizant person in the family, has to do what works for the people who are adults or children whom are capable of reasoning, understanding, and empathy?
I agree with this, but we aren't talking about an infant here. Also, the OP and PP are not talking about leaving the baby/toddler to CIO. She is still comforting her DD, just looking for ways other than the breast, because nursing while pregnant can be excruciating (I know this from my experience) and her DD may learn to sleep better without nursing.


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BabyMae09* 
So, the baby, the most vulnerable, least cognizant person in the family, has to do what works for the people who are adults or children whom are capable of reasoning, understanding, and empathy?


Yes, babies have to learn at some point that they are NOT the center of the universe. And, I didn't tell the OP to leave her 2day old, 16day old, 16week old - it is her 16MONTH old baby. At 16 months, my son understood every.single.thing. I said to him. Everything. Seriously.

And yeah, I get the whole babies needs above our own. I did it for 19months. After that, I needed to be able to sleep at night so that I could concentrate at school during the day. Why? B/c I need to be able to provide for family in a few months - and failing out of school in my last semester isn't an option.

I'm glad you are able to be imperfect and nurse all night long until your baby decides to stop - I couldn't do that.


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## transylvania_mom (Oct 8, 2006)

OP, can your dh help? I nightweaned my ds when he was 15 mo old and I couldn't have done it if I was in the same room with me. He would scream and hit me if I refused to nurse him or I just wanted to cuddle with him. My dh was prepared to wake up with him, play with him, rock him to sleep or give him water when he woke up during the night, so I knew he was in good hands. Ds woke up a couple of times and then he started sleeping through the night.
I think it was better to have someone else do the nighttime parenting when nightweaning because ds couldn't understand why I wouldn't let him sleep at the breast when I was right there with him. Dh also noticed that I was making it worse when I attempted to "rescue" him the first night.

Good luck OP


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## BabyMae09 (Sep 19, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LadyCatherine185* 
I agree with this, but we aren't talking about an infant here.

That's true - but just because she's not an infant doesn't mean that her feelings about not getting breast should be ignored.

And my DD understands me quite well, also. However, since children below a particular age have no idea what 'waiting until morning' means, for them, you might as well be taking away the breast for the rest of their life for all they know. Children below the age of about 3 have no concept of time on a large scale.

I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad; if you don't believe me, just look up developmental stages.


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## BabyMae09 (Sep 19, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thyra* 
And yeah, I get the whole babies needs above our own. I did it for 19months. After that, I needed to be able to sleep at night so that I could concentrate at school during the day. Why? B/c I need to be able to provide for family in a few months - and failing out of school in my last semester isn't an option.

I know you made the best decision that you could at the time









One thing that has often made me feel better about past decisions that I've been unable to avoid making but would rather not have (it sounds to me like you wish you'd been able to continue to night-nurse as needed - if I'm wrong please forgive the error) is the saying by Maya Angelou - "I did then what I knew how to do. Now that I know better, I do better."

I'm not saying any choice in your case was right or wrong, I'm only saying that this quote has helped me.

I'm going to bow out of this discussion now









Hugs to all of you dealing with nightweaning, I know how hard it can be


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## Comtessa (Sep 16, 2008)

OP here! I just wanted to come on and thank everyone who offered supportive advice about nightweaning. And hi, Beauchamp! How's your little one??

BabyMae, I'm sure that you didn't intend to be offensive with your posts, and I know that you're just trying to be warm and supportive, but I found some of your statements a bit judgmental. I really do appreciate and understand your desire to encourage continuing to night-nurse because it's in the best interest of the child. But, if it's not in the best interest of anyone else, at some point we need to make a change. And this really _is_ ok. I was hoping not to have to come in here and defend my decision to night-wean, and I _don't_ actually feel that it's a decision that needs to be defended, but I will explain a bit more, though I feel that others have done a good job of explaining some of the legitimate reasons to night-wean.

With this pregnancy night-nursing on DD's schedule (i.e., endlessly) simply is not an option any longer -- it's far too painful, and if I'm too sore from nursing all night, it's very difficult to continue to nurse during the day. And I don't want to wean her altogether, so nightweaning seems an acceptable compromise. Of course she isn't happy about it; what toddler is happy about being refused anything??? She complains far more when I refuse to let her eat the toothpaste than she does when I tell her she has to stop nursing and go to sleep.

In short, it is in the best interest of EVERYONE, including DD, that we find a way to stop nursing at night. She deserves our gentle help in learning how to sleep better at night _before_ her new sibling arrives and replaces her as the primary boob-monster. And, it's especially in the best interest of the new baby, who deserves to be growing inside a mama who's not exhausted and stressed every minute of the day.

As far as our progress with nightweaning goes... it's been on-and-off. We had to stop for a few days because DD got a fever and I wanted to be sure she got extra milk while she was sick. But now we're back on the program and it's going _much_ better. We're down to only 3 wakings a night (I think we were at about 7 before!) and only one of those seems to be problematic with her wanting to nurse endlessly. The other times she seems to do ok with being given a pacifier and being cuddled back to sleep.

The only waking we're really having trouble with is about 2 am. I nurse her for a few minutes, then take her off gently and say, "ok, time to sleep now," and she goes ballistic. I've been dealing with it by taking her out of bed and into her room, and rocking in the rocking chair for a couple of minutes, then I offer her a few sips of water, then she seems ready to sleep again without nursing herself to sleep. I'm going to sloooowly try to eliminate this feeding altogether, since it's the most difficult for both of us. The water helps a lot.

I do so wish we could get DH more involved at night, like several of you suggested, but every time we've tried it has been a disaster. She refuses to go to him at all at night -- and if he tries to hold her and soothe her she ramps it up until she's seriously hysterical. It think, even with all the tears, she does better with "Mama's right here, Mama loves you, you can have milk in the morning" than she ever would with "Mama's not here, go to sleep."

I was about to try moving all her nursing to the rocking chair, to break the association with nursing in bed, but I decided against it after reading *MamaLaura's* post. Welcome to MDC, by the way!!! And thanks for your post!!! I realized that my DD would definitely do exactly what your DS does -- wake up, go to the door and demand to be taken to the nursing chair. It's just the sort of thing she would do. So I scrapped that idea. Thanks for the timely advice and for sharing your experience.

We'll keep at it over here! Slowly but surely, we're going to help this child (and her exhausted, sick pregnant mama) sleep better at night.


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## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

Sounds like you're on the path toward full nightweaning. Good luck with that and with the rest of your pregnancy!


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## cyclamen (Jul 10, 2005)

Comtessa, I think you are doing great.

I think it is a good example to your kids to seek compromise in order to try to meet everyone's needs. It's not easy to listen to your child cry when you know you have a solution for that moment but not for the days ahead, and it's not easy to set a limit sometimes.

And we don't live in some mythical paradise of imaginary primitives. "It takes a village" ... yeah, it takes a village to nurse a kid too.

Guess what, if we lived in my grandmother's village, I would be handing my kid off to my mom to nurse and she can deal with the weaning when my daughter is 5, not me. But I don't live in that world (and thank god I don't, I like being able to read, divorce, and disobey my elders), so it's all me nursing, all the time. It's okay to set limits so you can be healthy. It makes you a good mom.

I did hear some biologist state that when mom gets the urge to stop nursing, feels agitated, etc, that is a good biological cue toward weaning. Maybe it's not studied science, but it sounds like sense to me.

*

I've been trying to keep in mind that "everything is a phase" with these babes. We had a minute where we had gotten DD15mo into a crib and that seemed to be working... then not...

What has finally helped has DD's father began a bedtime routine with her a few months ago, and they stick to it like it is god's commandment.

The first few nights she cried for me to nurse her but they stuck it out together. I knew she had eaten a good dinner, and nursed before they went in together, so it was just her crying for her sleep association. Things began to get easier after a week or so. Now she sleeps better for him than for me, I am sure because he is more consistent in their routine, whereas many times I just felt so awful to hear her crying. So I stopped putting her to bed altogether.

After bath, book, and snuggles with him, she will literally lay down in bed for him and go right to sleep in less than 10 minutes. Not so for nap times (when it's just me). Or if I sleep in the room. Then she wakes up and screams at me, signing "milk" frantically until I nurse her.

Well, we live in a 1 brdm and I don't want to sleep apart from my family. So we are experimenting with me integrating back into the bedtime routine so she can be used to falling asleep snuggling with me without nursing. Tonight I came in and nursed her, then told her "all done." And she popped off and rolled over and went to sleep. I want to try nursing with the lights on then lights out, then she goes to sleep to break the connection even more.

We will see what happens when I go in tonight for the big sleep. It seems like routine is the key. We'll try our new routine every day for the next two weeks and see what happens then.

*

The other thing that I try to remember (but usually forget) is that she is crying for help to fall asleep. Not the exact thing necessarily that she think she wants. Just help to learn how to go to sleep. That struck me from you post, Comtessa, that you are trying to help your daughter fall asleep too. If I can feel like we are working toward a common goal (peaceful sleep), rather than I am denying her the thing that she wants, it seems much easier to know how to proceed.


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BabyMae09* 
I know you made the best decision that you could at the time









One thing that has often made me feel better about past decisions that I've been unable to avoid making but would rather not have (*it sounds to me like you wish you'd been able to continue to night-nurse as needed - if I'm wrong please forgive the error*) is the saying by Maya Angelou - "I did then what I knew how to do. Now that I know better, I do better."

I'm not saying any choice in your case was right or wrong, I'm only saying that this quote has helped me.

I'm going to bow out of this discussion now









Hugs to all of you dealing with nightweaning, I know how hard it can be









I'm actually REALLY GLAD I've stopped night nursing (for the most part - if he wakes up once and is hungry b/c he didn't eat anything b/c of teething I'll nurse him ONCE). I don't regret night weaning at all - it has saved my sanity in SO MANY WAYS I can't even articulate them.


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## Mama_of_1 (Mar 31, 2005)

I'm really glad that I found this thread. I read through every single post and still have some thoughts and questions...

So, do any of you moms work full time out of the home AND continue to night-nurse 6-10x each night? (Please don't misinterpret - I wish I could be at home, but I can't right now.) DD - almost 13mo - is now waking 4-6-8 times each night. I am at the point that depression has set in because I have been unable to reach REM sleep in nearly a year and half (end of pregnancy had me running to the bathroom 3-4 times each night). DH and I are both completely exhausted - physically and mentally. At the end of it all, I still have to get up at 5 to get ready for the day.

Some of the ladies are right on with my thinking. Something's gotta give.

So where do you start? Yes, 12/13 mos is young but I have to function... I also cannot jepardize our family's life by loosing my job. And, really, being able to think clearly in the moment at 1, 2:30, or 4 is not my strong suit so I have reservations about starting the recommendations by Dr. Gordon or the NCSS method...


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama_of_1* 
I'm really glad that I found this thread. I read through every single post and still have some thoughts and questions...

So, do any of you moms work full time out of the home AND continue to night-nurse 6-10x each night? (Please don't misinterpret - I wish I could be at home, but I can't right now.) DD - almost 13mo - is now waking 4-6-8 times each night. I am at the point that depression has set in because I have been unable to reach REM sleep in nearly a year and half (end of pregnancy had me running to the bathroom 3-4 times each night). DH and I are both completely exhausted - physically and mentally. At the end of it all, I still have to get up at 5 to get ready for the day.

Some of the ladies are right on with my thinking. Something's gotta give.

So where do you start? Yes, 12/13 mos is young but I have to function... I also cannot jepardize our family's life by loosing my job. And, really, being able to think clearly in the moment at 1, 2:30, or 4 is not my strong suit so I have reservations about starting the recommendations by Dr. Gordon or the NCSS method...









It's hard to be a working mom isn't it? I'm not working, but I'm a full time student, and I'm a single mom - so I know where you're coming from.

At 12/13mo, is your dd still mostly BF'ing? How much does she eat in the way of solids? I don't know that I would encourage nightweaning per say, but you might try giving her foods at night time that have a high fat/protein content. Peanut butter is one of my son's fave's - he also loves almond butter, soynut butter, etc and a PB&J at dinner helps him sleep longer.

Nightweaning will be much harder if her solids intake isn't that great, b/c she needs those calories - and I really think the trick to nightweaning is making sure that the caloric intake is enough during the day to sustain them all night.

I hear you though that something has to give! Good luck! Don't feel guilty either - when mama has to work to feed everyone, mama also needs her sleep and sanity!


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## Mama_of_1 (Mar 31, 2005)

Oh yes, food is generally not a problem for K! haha She's an EATER and not shy about it. We've started the peanut butter on whole wheat bread and she seems to like it. Can't do a whole lot more than easy-mush items since she doesn't have any molars yet.

I know it's probably selective memory with them spaced so far apart, but I swear that DS only woke once or twice (at most) by this time and he was on roughly the same intake schedule. Granted, with him, I was still home at this age...

Oh, babies, babies, babies... LOL


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## CI Mama (Apr 8, 2010)

I'm reading this thread with interest as I'm considering when/how to nightwean my soon-to-be-2-year-old.

And I work full-time outside the home, so Mama of 1, I'm right there with you on how hard it is. Sleep deprivation made me crazy during DD's first year. I mean crazy. My basic standard at work was that I tried to get through each day without 1) crying, 2) telling someone to F*** off or 3) falling asleep at my desk. The fact that I got any actual work done seems like a miracle, looking back.

Things have been getting better, and now I'm at a point where I'm thinking about weaning, perhaps starting with night weaning. I'm torn because my DD clearly still loves to nurse and I like it as a way to reconnect and be close to her after being at work all day. Also, we've totally trained her to nurse to sleep, and almost nothing else works. (If I'm away from the house, my partner can get her down, but only by taking her out for a drive or watching re-runs of The Waltons for hours). On the other hand, I'm pretty tired of having enormous boobs. And DD is old enough now that we have lots of great things in our relationship...it's not just "all about nursing" like it was at first.

But because I'm ambivalent about making a change, nothing is changing. So I'm just observing how things evolve, which they continue to do.

There was a change in my DD's sleep patterns around 18 months, and it definitely had more to do with her development than with anything I was doing. She started sleeping for longer stretches, and now it's typical for her to wake up only twice during the night. Most nights I can get her back to sleep within 5-10 minutes with a little nursing. So it's pretty manageable.

New things that we're playing around with:
FOOD: We have definitely noticed that DD sleeps better when she eats more during the day. And we have to work hard to get her to eat. We've started putting whey powder in her yogurt to boost her protein intake. And we've discovered that we can prolong meal time by continuing to feed her bits of food by following her around and putting it in her mouth. Perhaps that crazy, but it's working, so we're doing it.

SINGING: I sing the ABC song and when it's done, she has to stop nursing. For some reason, she totally accepts this. Sometimes I can say "all done nursing" and that does the trick, too, but the singing really works.

STUFFED ANIMAL: The other night she begged for her blue baby bear at 5:45 am. So I found it for her, and then we nursed for 5 min, and she was still totally awake, but I told her that mama and baby bear were going to sleep, and she put herself to sleep. It was amazing.

There are plenty of days when I've kicked myself for not doing CIO ages ago. And there are also plenty of days when I realize that the road I'm taking is perfect for our family, even though it's very imperfect, if that makes any sense. I'm starting to trust that my DD will some day go to sleep on her own and my breasts won't be involved. And I'm pretty sure it will happen before she's 7.


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