# Limits of GD parenting



## delighted.mama (Jan 29, 2003)

Is being stern with your kids still considered GD? I've often wondered that. I try to be gd, but I find that as my kids get older, I tend to be more stern/serious with them. They are 6 1/2 and almost 4. I don't mean that I'm frowning and snapping at them, I just mean that I have a very no-nonsense voice when I talk to them sometimes, especially if it is something relating to their behavior. I have a few friends IRL that are GD as well, but when I hear them talk to their kids, it all sounds so fake and not realistic. Kind of phony-nice; not the way a person would normally react to a situation, whether it's with their child or someone else. For example, saying in a sugary sweet voice "Please don't jump on the couch with your shoes." My response would be something like, "We don't jump on the couch with our shoes. Please get off the couch and sit down." This would definitely be said with a "I'm not messing around" kind of voice. Depending on how much they are acting out, it may be followed by a







face. Of course, being out in public is not necessarily how they talk to the kids in the privacy of their own home. Anyway, it started me thinking, maybe I'm not being as GD as I'd like to think?









At the same time, I don't want to be totally fake with my kids. There are natural reactions that I think kids should be exposed to and see, just like in real life, within moderation of course (no screaming, raging, hitting, etc.) Natural feelings of irritation or having a serious tone are reactions that I think are appropriate (depending on the age of the child and the situation, of course). To display something contrary seems counter-intuitive and wrong to me. Kind of like trying to hide my feelings from them. Yes, I get irritated, angry, stressed, etc. Just like I show them when I am happy, playful, loving.

What do you think? Any thoughts on it? What is your style of GD parenting?

Libby


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

I hate the fakey-fake voice. I'm stern sometimes. Serious I guess is a better term.

I'm more about authenticity myself. I think sometimes I fake it til I make it as a method to get me through...like fake patience when I'm running low to get me through until I can recharge etc. but I think it's important to be genuine with your kids.

I get angry with them. I let them know I'm angry. I just try to express it appropriately.


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## Mama Poot (Jun 12, 2006)

For me, as long as I'm not yelling, saying mean things, or hitting, I'm still within the realm of GD. I have a lot of work to do with my own temper and short fuse and I know I could be a lot more gentle with my kids. But I do believe there are limits, and I also believe that those limits vary greatly among individual families.


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

Yup I know that face.
I definetly have a "I am not kidding tone" and if pushed that tone gets stronger. (I am working on not yelling but don't succeed as much as I would like)


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## hollycat (Aug 13, 2008)

kids can always spot a phoney voice, IMO. they're very wise to whats REALLY happening. not being authentic with them teaches them that thats okay.


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## NoliMum (Jan 18, 2007)

Honestly, I think you're right on.

When your kids are acting inappropriately, it is important to communicate that through not only your words, but your tone and expression. "Stop hitting the dog honey, La La La!" is going to confuse a child. It doesn't send the message clearly.

On the other hand, "We don't hit the dog. That is mean and hurts him. Stop." Followed with removal of child from dog and a serious discussion is "gentle discipline" in my mind.

Also, I think if you're not authentic with your kids, they will learn to be fake toward you.


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## BellinghamCrunchie (Sep 7, 2005)

I really think it depends on the child. If a child responds well to a normal conversation tone (such as if you are just giving information, not giving orders) then that is what should be used. If a child responds to a firm tone with fear or withdrawal, then I wouldn't use that tone because it would be too harsh of a punishment *for that child.*

I personally don't like the sound of fakey but if the child responds to it I guess that's all that matters.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I think that there are times that being stern is necessary and times when it is better not to be. Usually I am playful the first time and serious the second time, but some things I am just serious because they are serious issues. I have sometimes tried to just do the fun and playful but it really doesn't work out well when she is set on doing what she is doing until I get so frustrated that I am to stern. I think it is better to start out serious with a serious look then get to a point where you react out of frustration or anger.


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## alexsam (May 10, 2005)

I do not think GD is about being "nicey" all the time or lenient or any of that.

I think it is about conducting discipline in ways that are not violent (hitting), demeaning (name calling or whatever), or illogical or cruel (out for making a child suffer instead of learn). This does not mean that parents can't be angry or even yell sometimes (as long as the yelling is not "destructive", and if it is or not is really personal to each family) or put their own needs first sometimes. This does not mean that a GD parent can't have rules, behavior expectations that they enforce, or use options like time-out. It is the WAY they are done and the REASONS behind them and making sure that expectations and consequences are age appropriate, logical, and focused on teaching.

Becoming an authentic parent, especially in terms of disciple, was a real changing point for me. When I used all the nicey words and bit back every time I was angry and steeled myself with the patience of a saint, I found that not only was I not myself- a bit of a fiery, loud and exuberant Italian-American who might be loud and direct in scolding but also quick to laugh, kiss, and love through it all- I was profoundly unhappy. I felt that I was trying to be someone I am not. I felt I spent my days trying to be "perfect mom" and I was failing. I had a bit of a crisis and my husband said to me "You be who you are. He knows you love him and would never hurt him. The rest is you and he will know you. He already does. Look at you and your own mother and grandmother." It made sense. My mom and grandma are the same way. Loud, direct in discipline, and the most loving and passionate people I know and I trust them with every fiber of my body and I know they love me to the moon and back. I knew when I was disciplined, it was an iron bond of love underneath.

Then I came to the conclusion that even if I yelled occasionally, I never name-called or was mean or disrespectful and I was always honest with my son about my needs and feelings. Whenever I said "Hey! Cut that out!" instead of "Sweetie- let's not throw sand at out friends, OK?" I never regretted it because that is what I meant and I know my son and what HE knows when he is veering from the straight and narrow and I know that by being honest with my words he knows ME. He knows that even if I am angry, I am there for him. And this does not go against GD.

GD is NOT putting yourself in an emotional straight-jacket in that you can never be upset. GD is NOT ever having any rules or setting any limits or never having any consequences. GD is not that the child is ALWAYS innocent and we must ALWAYS change our ways- sometimes they ARE doing it on purpose and they just need to STOP. It is just managing all these things in the most respectful and thoughtful way possible and always without violence.


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## NoliMum (Jan 18, 2007)

Well said, alexsam!


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

I've noticed that the people I know who don't ever seem to use a "firm" voice like that with their kids don't seem to use it with anyone. I can think of a few people I know who are just that relaxed and calm and serene. They can be addressing the fact that their child just shaved the dog, or discussing how they feel about some political atrocity, and just remain so calm about it. I often find myself wishing I had my stuff together like that, so it's really something I tend to notice.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I want my daughter to be comfortable having emotions other than "happy" and I think it's worthwhile for her to see me deal with being angry without hurting anyone or screaming. So when I feel stern, I have a stern voice. When she's angry at me she uses a stern voice too. I don't expect her to be happy all the time either. We're human beings.


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## kacymoose (May 18, 2008)

So my kids can tell my fake mad from my real mad. Sometimes I don't like what they are doing and try raising my voice to try to get them to stop, and it doesn't work. Then I feel like a fool because I know that doesn't work and they respond better to me talking genuinely with them. When I am really and truly upset, they comply without question.

On another note, I don't really want to have to raise my voice to get my kids to listen to me (although I have just admitted that I do it). I want them to listen to me and others before people get irritated and lose their tempers. I work toward getting my kids to look at others perspectives and reasons why such and such is inapropriate.


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## GradysMom (Jan 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *delighted.mama* 
At the same time, I don't want to be totally fake with my kids. There are natural reactions that I think kids should be exposed to and see, just like in real life, within moderation of course (no screaming, raging, hitting, etc.) Natural feelings of irritation or having a serious tone are reactions that I think are appropriate (depending on the age of the child and the situation, of course). To display something contrary seems counter-intuitive and wrong to me. Kind of like trying to hide my feelings from them. Yes, I get irritated, angry, stressed, etc. Just like I show them when I am happy, playful, loving.

ITA
I think part of the point is to be real with our children. Just as I see hitting a coworker to be unacceptable...
It would be insane to hear in a sing song voice " ya know bob, honey, put the cash back in the safe please, we don't take the money home" from your boss.
I think it is really important to show the range of human communication, including when I've made a mistake.
I would hate for my son to experience the world as harsh and cruel... just because I painted everything rosy...
Nor would I want him to one day roll his eyes constantly behind my back and dismiss everything I have to say because I seem soooo unrealistic.

This way the landscape of who mommy is from 0 to 18 and beyond is predictable, real and relateable.


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## SheBear (Aug 19, 2003)

This is quite possibly the most important thread I have read in a LOOOONG time. I have felt for a couple years (since I started coming around to GD) that I was totally losing myself, and now I know why. Truly, I've been teetering for awhile, just about ready to call BS on the whole GD philosophy and go totally "old school" just in hopes of regaining my sanity.

Well, this thread just became my lifeline. I can't begin to tell you all HOW MUCH that means to me, and HOW MUCH I needed it at just this moment.

alexsam, special







to you....you spoke from my heart! I'm a loud, sassy Italian-American too, and I love the way my family of origin interacted (well, except for the whole spanking thing, but even that never felt like abuse to me--I just see that there are better alternatives, KWIM?). I want my kids to to grow up with gusto, and robusto and all of the fervor and energy and strong emotions that I always felt free to express. I want to stop supressing my emotional expression, and I'm glad to hear (from mamas I trust!







) that I can do that, and still be a gentle mother!

thank you, all!


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## babygrace (Aug 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alexsam* 
I do not think GD is about being "nicey" all the time or lenient or any of that.

I think it is about conducting discipline in ways that are not violent (hitting), demeaning (name calling or whatever), or illogical or cruel (out for making a child suffer instead of learn). This does not mean that parents can't be angry or even yell sometimes (as long as the yelling is not "destructive", and if it is or not is really personal to each family) or put their own needs first sometimes. This does not mean that a GD parent can't have rules, behavior expectations that they enforce, or use options like time-out. It is the WAY they are done and the REASONS behind them and making sure that expectations and consequences are age appropriate, logical, and focused on teaching.

Becoming an authentic parent, especially in terms of disciple, was a real changing point for me. When I used all the nicey words and bit back every time I was angry and steeled myself with the patience of a saint, I found that not only was I not myself- a bit of a fiery, loud and exuberant Italian-American who might be loud and direct in scolding but also quick to laugh, kiss, and love through it all- I was profoundly unhappy. I felt that I was trying to be someone I am not. I felt I spent my days trying to be "perfect mom" and I was failing. I had a bit of a crisis and my husband said to me "You be who you are. He knows you love him and would never hurt him. The rest is you and he will know you. He already does. Look at you and your own mother and grandmother." It made sense. My mom and grandma are the same way. Loud, direct in discipline, and the most loving and passionate people I know and I trust them with every fiber of my body and I know they love me to the moon and back. I knew when I was disciplined, it was an iron bond of love underneath.

Then I came to the conclusion that even if I yelled occasionally, I never name-called or was mean or disrespectful and I was always honest with my son about my needs and feelings. Whenever I said "Hey! Cut that out!" instead of "Sweetie- let's not throw sand at out friends, OK?" I never regretted it because that is what I meant and I know my son and what HE knows when he is veering from the straight and narrow and I know that by being honest with my words he knows ME. He knows that even if I am angry, I am there for him. And this does not go against GD.

GD is NOT putting yourself in an emotional straight-jacket in that you can never be upset. GD is NOT ever having any rules or setting any limits or never having any consequences. GD is not that the child is ALWAYS innocent and we must ALWAYS change our ways- sometimes they ARE doing it on purpose and they just need to STOP. It is just managing all these things in the most respectful and thoughtful way possible and always without violence.

what a fabulous post, alexsam! we often forget the parent-child relationship is a symbiotic one and not a one way street. i know i was tending to psychoanalyzing so much it was taking away the importance of family context plus sometimes kids just prefer short and direct or else they tune you out!
a very wise post.


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## alexsam (May 10, 2005)

Awww... thanks guys.

It really was a big growing moment for me- when I realized that I could be me and that this was important to both me and my son and that more important than the perfect, nicey words was that I was real. And that my being real was STILL GD.

I don't hit. I don't name call. I don't demean. I am not cruel. I honor his feelings and respect him as a person.

Sometimes I get angry and I get loud (and, I know that to some people, they have memories or experiences of yelling as a frightening and traumatic thing, but for others, like myself, we were just all loud when we were worked up and "yelling" wasn't scary, it was just... loud







. And you knew to take notice, but it was never really worrisome. I see my son understanding this as well...). Sometimes I swear (which has become a family joke). Sometimes I am at a loss. Sometimes I am outright wrong and I apologize. But I realised that being ME is good and that I am a good person and mama and I don't always need the perfect words or to have the eternal smile or any of that to be what he needs. Or even to be GD.

I hope my son grows up to have the relationship I have with my mom and grandma. It is so complex and personal because we were always real- we knew when anyone else was serious or hurt, we knew when we were joking, we knew that forgiveness was always a given and that we all were different and honest. We knew we could drive each other crazy and if asked at that very moment, would sacrafice anything in the world for the other. I really think that it gave me the confidence to be who I am and be comfortable with the emotional ups and downs of life. And to this day we have tons of material to laugh about because we can all look back on those moments of discipline and relate to what the others were thinking.

So, I have given myself permission to get loud sometimes. I don't stress my swearing. I may be the only hippie mama to be shouting accross the playground "Hey! Don't do that!" And I have a full repitoire of "looks" that DS knows what they mean. I've told my kid in exasperation "You're making me nuts!" and he gave me the appropriate response... he giggled







.

And I hope more than anything my son will grow up and say "Man, my mom swore like a sailor and I could hear her shout a mile away... but I knew she always loved me even when I screwed up and I could trust her with anything."

And... I think it is all GD







.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

I agree that a stern/serious voice is definitely within the realm of GD. You wouldn't want to name call, or demean or shame or anything like that. But a serious "Do not hit" followed by an "I mean it" look is fine imo.

My ds is used to me not being nicey nicey. I pretty much tell it like it is, and sometimes use a sarcastic type tone of voice. And it doesn't bother him when I use a stern voice (or at least he's never given any indication that he cares- even when I've asked him). He knows I respect his desires and opinions, and I am pretty laid back and "lenient" in a lot of ways.
But when my dp uses even a remotely stern voice, ds breaks down. He's not used to dp talking like that, and it affects him a lot more. Don't know why I had to add that- it seemed relevant.







hehehe


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## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

The Firm Voice is one of my most important GD tools. Being gentle does not require being wimpy. Being firm is not the same as being mean. To put it in psychologists' terms, there's a difference between being authoritaTIVE and being authoritaRIAN.


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## delighted.mama (Jan 29, 2003)

Whew!! Thanks mamas! After I posted, I started to second-guess myself, thinking maybe I'd get







for not being more GD. Very well said Alexam...totally spoken from the heart and very appropriate. As a eastern-european, I definitely have a "spark" (to say the least) to my personality. I, too, see my friends who have a generally calm demeanor and sometimes think I'd like to be that way. Then, I realize that I'd go crazy trying to be that way. It's just not me. I tend to be a little more sarcastic, even biting sometimes, but within reason. I want my kids to experience the full gamut of natural emotions.

I really like the distinction that one of the OP stated:

_"Being firm is not the same as being mean. To put it in psychologists' terms, there's a difference between being authoritaTIVE and being authoritaRIAN."_

That totally explains it. I always thought that but didn't know how to put it into words.

Thanks for sharing mamas! Keep the comments comin'!

Libby


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## I-AM-Mother (Aug 6, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alexsam* 
I do not think GD is about being "nicey" all the time or lenient or any of that.

I think it is about conducting discipline in ways that are not violent (hitting), demeaning (name calling or whatever), or illogical or cruel (out for making a child suffer instead of learn). This does not mean that parents can't be angry or even yell sometimes (as long as the yelling is not "destructive", and if it is or not is really personal to each family) or put their own needs first sometimes. This does not mean that a GD parent can't have rules, behavior expectations that they enforce, or use options like time-out. It is the WAY they are done and the REASONS behind them and making sure that expectations and consequences are age appropriate, logical, and focused on teaching.

Becoming an authentic parent, especially in terms of disciple, was a real changing point for me. *When I used all the nicey words and bit back every time I was angry and steeled myself with the patience of a saint, I found that not only was I not myself- a bit of a fiery, loud and exuberant Italian-American who might be loud and direct in scolding but also quick to laugh, kiss, and love through it all- I was profoundly unhappy. I felt that I was trying to be someone I am not. I felt I spent my days trying to be "perfect mom" and I was failing. I had a bit of a crisis and my husband said to me "You be who you are. He knows you love him and would never hurt him. The rest is you and he will know you. He already does.* Look at you and your own mother and grandmother." It made sense. My mom and grandma are the same way. Loud, direct in discipline, and the most loving and passionate people I know and I trust them with every fiber of my body and I know they love me to the moon and back. I knew when I was disciplined, it was an iron bond of love underneath.

Then I came to the conclusion that even if I yelled occasionally, I never name-called or was mean or disrespectful and I was always honest with my son about my needs and feelings. Whenever I said "Hey! Cut that out!" instead of "Sweetie- let's not throw sand at out friends, OK?" I never regretted it because that is what I meant and I know my son and what HE knows when he is veering from the straight and narrow and I know that by being honest with my words he knows ME. He knows that even if I am angry, I am there for him. And this does not go against GD.

GD is NOT putting yourself in an emotional straight-jacket in that you can never be upset. GD is NOT ever having any rules or setting any limits or never having any consequences. GD is not that the child is ALWAYS innocent and we must ALWAYS change our ways- sometimes they ARE doing it on purpose and they just need to STOP. It is just managing all these things in the most respectful and thoughtful way possible and always without violence.

Excellent! I agree with babygrace, it was wise. I can totally relate to your entire post, especially the highlighted area.

I tried to adopt a style that was not my own. I softened my voice, spoke calm and gentle, and it just did not last. I was stifled. I am a passionate wild intense individual. I am loud, I move a lot, I wrestle, I start play fights, I do whatever my children do to me, I smack butts, I hang babies upside down, I yell, I dance, etc,. So, when I tried to be calm and gentle it didn't feel right. And the funny thing is I never said anything to my family about what I was trying to do but everybody noticed, and kept asking, "Why are you talking like that?" The only person I told about my new plan was was my husband and he just laughed out loud and said, "Oh, yeah." I was serious but by the third or fourth day I sat everybody down in our circle and let them know I was going to be me. They were just going to have to deal with it, and my oldest daughter burst out laughing and said, "I was wondering what you were doing? I kept asking myself what is wrong with her?" My husband basically said that he knew the new "me" wasn't going to last and found the entire thing hilarious.

My children know me. I know them. I am a lot of things but I am not mean, nasty, abusive, manipulative, neglectful. I don't name call, or belittle. I cherish them. I value my children. Anything I say, they know, is said to them in love only.

thanks alexsam.


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## Arwyn (Sep 9, 2004)

What a timely thread for me. I've been having many of these thoughts myself recently. A lot of the murky thoughts swirling in my brain were well articulated here, and I thank all of you for helping.


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## triscuitsmom (Jan 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arwyn* 
What a timely thread for me. I've been having many of these thoughts myself recently. A lot of the murky thoughts swirling in my brain were well articulated here, and I thank all of you for helping.

















:


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## mamajjr (Aug 24, 2008)

Using a stern voice can definetly be GD as long as the children's dignity is left in tact (no name calling, etc). I get stern with my children. Some children need different actions to get a point across, I use a stern look with one and a stern voice with the other, both are effective deterrants


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## bunnybartlett (Aug 27, 2002)

envirobecca great link!! reading those is very helpful


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## hellyaellen (Nov 8, 2005)

definately good food for thought............


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## crazyrunningmama (Dec 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kacymoose* 

On another note, I don't really want to have to raise my voice to get my kids to listen to me (although I have just admitted that I do it). I want them to listen to me and others before people get irritated and lose their tempers. I work toward getting my kids to look at others perspectives and reasons why such and such is inapropriate.

I am really working on this myself, not yelling. AND I am noticing that my dd yells at us because we often don't hear her or respond the first time.







Modelling how we want her to talk to us is a big one!

This is an awesome thread, thank you to everyone who shared such well though out, insightful posts. This has really helped me (my dd is sooooooooo two, kwim?).


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## kindergirl77 (Jun 30, 2005)

All this 'authentic parenting' talk made me think of Naomi Aldort's book "Raising Our Children, Raising Ourselves" an awsome book!

I agree that we must be authentic with our children and that there is no need to hide feelings. But I also feel that we must be careful not to unload strong adult feelings onto a child who may become frightened by those feelings. I agree with Aldort that while its good to be authentic, if we must 'let it all hang out' and express violent or angry expressions, a friend, partner or therapist would be better suited to let out those strong emotions. Once those emotions are released, we are better able to parent.

Not exactly disagreeing, but also trying to make the distinction between being authentic and making a child fearful (since children tend to take on adult feelings as their own fault), so while we must let a child unleash their feelings, children may not be able to experience an unleashing of adult feelings without feeling some guilt about them.

Am I making any sense here?


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## alexsam (May 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kindergirl77* 
All this 'authentic parenting' talk made me think of Naomi Aldort's book "Raising Our Children, Raising Ourselves" an awsome book!

I agree that we must be authentic with our children and that there is no need to hide feelings. But I also feel that we must be careful not to unload strong adult feelings onto a child who may become frightened by those feelings. I agree with Aldort that while its good to be authentic, if we must 'let it all hang out' and express violent or angry expressions, a friend, partner or therapist would be better suited to let out those strong emotions. Once those emotions are released, we are better able to parent.

Not exactly disagreeing, but also trying to make the distinction between being authentic and making a child fearful (since children tend to take on adult feelings as their own fault), so while we must let a child unleash their feelings, children may not be able to experience an unleashing of adult feelings without feeling some guilt about them.

Am I making any sense here?










Totally. What I am talking about (and I think some others who have found the "always be patient, calm and quiet" idea to be confining and inauthentic) is not about unloading adult problems or using negative words or being out of control or any of that, but instead of when a kid is doing something terribly annoying, hurtful, or just plain "you know better" that responses of irritation or anger or frustration are appropriate and can be part of life and an important part of the 2 way relationship between parent and child.


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## SheBear (Aug 19, 2003)

Yep, I think you make perfect sense, and I totally agree with your post!

Difference is, you are talking about emotions/reactions, which are transient, whereas the OP is talking about personality, which is pretty much permanent!









It is always a good thing to be reminded of, though!


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## Anno (Feb 18, 2005)

Wow, I'm feeling defensive so this must be hitting home for me! I do tend to try to stay calm when I'm upset with DS - mostly because he runs away if I bark at him or express too much anger in my voice.

I guess he does need to learn that anger is not the end of the world and that he will survive it.

Maybe this explains some of the trouble we've been having with his hitting and biting. I try to stay calm so as not to give a reaction but now I realize this is more appropriate for a very young child testing the waters, not an almost 4 year old.

I wish I found parenting more intuitive! I always feel like i'm doing it wrong.

thanks mamas for your words.


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## EricaRain (Nov 9, 2007)

I'm glad to read this. It was a relief to me, while reading How To Talk So Your Kids Will Listen and Listen So Your Kids Will Talk, to find out that it can be valuable to let your kids know how you feel. There are times for a no-nonsense voice!


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## gcgirl (Apr 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls* 
I get angry with them. I let them know I'm angry. I just try to express it appropriately.

Totally. Kids need to learn that you can be angry at them and STILL love them at the same time. Pretending to be happy all the time and never displaying "negative" emotions doesn't really help, IMO. I prefer not to teach my kids to hide their feelings, so I won't set that kind of example, kwim?


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## kindacrunchy (Jun 25, 2004)

bumping.
love this thread.
i've tried to be the calm, quite, unemotional mom, too. I realized I am a passionate person and so is my son. Although, I stll feel I need to learn how to keep the emotions somewhat under control because I tend to rant. Which I did last night and am feeling not so great about it. Over food, for goodness sake! Just tired of making a meal for everyone to have it snubbed and then told an hour later that they are starving and eating snacky foods til the time they go to sleep. see, i'm starting again


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## WhaleinGaloshes (Oct 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
I want my daughter to be comfortable having emotions other than "happy" and I think it's worthwhile for her to see me deal with being angry without hurting anyone or screaming.

I agree with all the posts about "authenticity."

When I feel angry/crabby/frustrated/hurt/at my wit's end, I try to ask myself "if DD felt like _this_, what would I like to see her do to express it and handle it?" Then I try to do that.

To me, that's what it's about. In the parenting classes I completed to become a foster parent, we talked a lot about this concept of 'induction.' Children _induce_ these feelings in adults they trust, so that the children can watch the reaction and learn how to handle them. In particular, frustrated children make adults frustrated, angry children make adults angry, about-to-melt children push all the buttons. Because they don't know how to handle it and are trying to learn.

So as an adult to try to pretend that I don't feel angry or I don't feel sad would be cheating her out of an education, IMO. I just try to do the best I can to be appropriate, constructive, healthy etc...and "do the best you can and acknowledge what you can improve" is the ultimate lesson, anyway, IMO.


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## nummies (Jun 9, 2007)

Thanks so much for this post! I have really been going back and forth in my mind a lot lately.

I just started to research GD and ways to deal with my newly tantruming toddler. This thread helps a lot!


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## honeysesame (Dec 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *easy_goer* 
I agree with all the posts about "authenticity."

When I feel angry/crabby/frustrated/hurt/at my wit's end, I try to ask myself "if DD felt like _this_, what would I like to see her do to express it and handle it?" Then I try to do that.

To me, that's what it's about. In the parenting classes I completed to become a foster parent, we talked a lot about this concept of 'induction.' Children _induce_ these feelings in adults they trust, so that the children can watch the reaction and learn how to handle them. In particular, frustrated children make adults frustrated, angry children make adults angry, about-to-melt children push all the buttons. Because they don't know how to handle it and are trying to learn.

So as an adult to try to pretend that I don't feel angry or I don't feel sad would be cheating her out of an education, IMO. I just try to do the best I can to be appropriate, constructive, healthy etc...and "do the best you can and acknowledge what you can improve" is the ultimate lesson, anyway, IMO.

that makes a lot of sense. whew! this thread is also a big relief to me as well....a fiery personality raised in a firey home and both dh and ds (and, looks to be dd too!) also w/ big expressive tempers....i like nvc principles but have trouble when i try to stifle myself to stay calm and patient when inside i'm getting frustrated.... yet, if dh (especially) and i are too stern/loud, ds, while being pretty loud/expressive himself, is also super sensitive, and will sometimes totally melt down-- even when our intent is not really as strong as he must feel it.... does that seem like the measurement of "it's time to tone it down"? yet, i also wonder if this has to do w/ me sometimes jumping on dh to tone it down when *i* think he's being too stern... or dh wanting ds to tone it down.... oy. sometimes i feel like we're pretty tangled up! playful parenting is often helpful but only to a point. help, wise mamas!


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

I agree with Alexsam and want to build on some of this a bit. Much of what is and isn't GD depends on the situation, the child, and the adult. Of course, some things are never appropriate (e.g. hitting, humiliating). But within the gray areas, there are lots of variables.

Being stern or loud with a 7 mo. old who got into your makeup because you left it in his reach would be completely non-GD. He doesn't understand, you made the mistake, it happens. On the other hand, being stern with a 5 YO who got into the makeup properly put away in the cabinet for the third time today, that would be completely appropriate. The child is old enough to understand the problem (nail polish doesn't come out of carpet, for example), old enough to have the impulse control to not repeat the action, and you did your part by putting things away and appropriately explaining the boundaries the first time it happened.

I've spent a lot of time putting this together in my head because I have a nanny with the kids about 18 hours a week and I need to be able to explain appropriate / inappropriate discipline to her so she knows what I expect. Its actually a really good excercise even if you don't actually have to do it -- figure out what you would tell a long-term caregiver about disciplining your child. Then try to live up to that standard!


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## sweetpeppers (Dec 19, 2007)

yup, I know the fake voice. I try not to be fake. When I'm running out of patience, I just try to think of how I need to be gentle. Just the word helps me calm down sometimes. I talk seriously when I am serious, but I think a lot of parents are just too darn serious, so I try to limit what I'm serious about.


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## rzberrymom (Feb 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BellinghamCrunchie* 
I really think it depends on the child. If a child responds well to a normal conversation tone (such as if you are just giving information, not giving orders) then that is what should be used. If a child responds to a firm tone with fear or withdrawal, then I wouldn't use that tone because it would be too harsh of a punishment *for that child.*

Totally totally agree! My kiddo usually reacts with fear and withdrawal to firmness, so I really have to watch my tone. Other kiddos are probably completely different.


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## medaroge (Dec 21, 2004)

I really like the fake voice. I do have a 'look' that I give that always works, but we have not had any real problems with our kiddos, so up to now, that has worked (fingers crossed!)


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## puddle (Aug 30, 2007)

*


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## theresal (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *easy_goer* 
In the parenting classes I completed to become a foster parent, we talked a lot about this concept of 'induction.' Children _induce_ these feelings in adults they trust, so that the children can watch the reaction and learn how to handle them. In particular, frustrated children make adults frustrated, angry children make adults angry, about-to-melt children push all the buttons. Because they don't know how to handle it and are trying to learn.

Very well put!

The other day I was getting so frustrated with my ds-5. I was thinking he ALWAYS puts up an argument when I ask for something and his first response is always no. I never seem to get cooperation. It drives me crazy! And then I realized that he feels the same way about me - that I always say no to his requests and argue with him when he asks for something. I'm driving him crazy!

It's up to me to model a healthy response to those situations (as well as maybe re-think if it's necessary to say NO to him as often as I do) so that he can learn how to respond in a more healthy way himself.

Thanks for sharing.

Theresa


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## nina_yyc (Nov 5, 2006)

Interesting thread. I've wondered about my DCP's strong tone at times, but I figured she needed to be really clear on her boundaries to stay sane with so many kids around all the time. All the kids in her care are very gentle though, so I never wanted to question her methods.

I've tried the fake voice and fake mad and DD does.not.respond. But when she is doing something that I really can't stand for (i.e. running towards the street) - she stops in her tracks at my involuntary yell. I really think I need to be more genuine all the time out of respect for DD - how can I find it disrespectful for her not to obey if she knows I don't really mean it?


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## shantimama (Mar 11, 2002)

I don't have the energy or the patience for fake nice voices. Those voices get under my skin so I have no desire to inflict that upon my children!

Most of the time I try to keep an even- keel. That is just the kind of person I am. I don't get sucked into drama easily and I can often respond to situations pretty calmly - but when one of my children crosses the line, I let them know it. There is a big open area between always trying to be sweet and nice and not hurt anyone's feelings and being a screaming, unfair abusive parent. I am not interested in either extreme. I use a normal tone of voice and when something begins and if my children don't respond my tone of voice lets them know I am upset and that they need to change something.

I am a firm believer in Gentle Discipline - but I do not believe that includes protecting children from the 'negative' feelings and reactions of otehr people. If I get cranky because they aren't responding to me they learn something - not just about the action in question (jumping on the couch or whatever it is) - but also about how to handle it when people get angry with you. They will need to know how to navigate the wider world as they get older.

My job is to teach them how to communicate well, how to get along with others and to learn what the should tolerate from other people - as well as the limits of what otehr people should tolerate from them. My mother did an excellent job at teaching me that the world will tolerate nothing out of line from me and that I should accept anything another person wishes to do to me, no matter how wrong or hurtful. It has taken a lot of work to undo that learning. I hope my children are learning form the GD at home that they do not have to tolerate abuse from anyone - but also that they need to respect and listen to other people as well as themselves.


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## Beeblebrox (Apr 6, 2005)

I'm real with my DD1. I let her know, "I am angry right now". As a result of expressing what emotion I'm feeling and feeling it out loud she does the same. When she's upset she says, "I am upset right now. I'm feeling sad. I'm mad right now." Then we can talk about why she's feeling that way. I think being real, using my stern no nonsense voice and discussing what is more appropriate she's doing great!


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## I-AM-Mother (Aug 6, 2008)

bump....great topic.


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