# inappropriate TV? WWYD?



## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

I have a wonderful 11 yr old DS. We get along well much of the time, but when we have issues it is often over TV.

DS wants to watch _anything he wants_. I do not want him to watch shows I think are inappropriate due to adult content - such as CSI, Prison Break, Family Guy, etc.

He also wants to go to inappropriate internet sites, but that is less of an issue due to the fact they are quick for me to check out.

He badgers me, on a daily basis, to watch these shows. He thinks I am too "strict", etc. Honestly, it feels like verbal harassment. I am tired of saying "no' over and over _and over_ again. He wants me to "check out" shows before I judge them - but seriously, I do not want to spend my scant free time watching violents, icky shows. After all, I do not ask him to watch Steel Magnolias and the like.

I have tried being strong and just saying "no" but he is wearing me down, and I come across as a big old meanie.

So I have a plan.... We have satelitte TV with 5 theme packs (plus basic)...I am thinking of going down to just basic. I am hoping it will lessen the constant baragement. OTOH, he is a good kid, he is genuinely interested in TV...is this removing an interest?

I know life would be easier if I just gave in, but I genuinely do not think he needs to learn about the dark side of humanity from TV shows. UGH!







:

Kathy


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

I'd let him watch what he wants. If his behavior changes and he seems to be picking up "bad habits" from the things he's seen then you might have a reason to restrict his viewing. Otherwise, who is it hurting?

My dd (almost five) watches our shows with us . . . she enjoys them and they aren't hurting her. My parents also let me watch what I wanted as a kid, and it didn't change me into a hellion. I think kids who have that sort of thing restricted too severely become obsessed with it -- the whole forbidden fruit thing.

Maybe you could let him pick one or two of the shows to follow, as a compromise? Or allow him a certain number of hours per week to choose whatever he wants to view?


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

If you don't want him to watch those shows, then don't let him watch. If he keeps badgering you, I'd limit his TV time or choices even furthur to teach him that badgering me is NOT the way to go about getting what he wants.


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## CaraNicole (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
I'd let him watch what he wants. If his behavior changes and he seems to be picking up "bad habits" from the things he's seen then you might have a reason to restrict his viewing. Otherwise, who is it hurting?

My dd (almost five) watches our shows with us . . . she enjoys them and they aren't hurting her. My parents also let me watch what I wanted as a kid, and it didn't change me into a hellion. I think kids who have that sort of thing restricted too severely become obsessed with it -- the whole forbidden fruit thing.

Maybe you could let him pick one or two of the shows to follow, as a compromise? Or allow him a certain number of hours per week to choose whatever he wants to view?









:


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

We have basic cable (12 channels or so) and we still get Family Guy. So, getting rid of all your programming might not do much, unless you can be assured of only getting Noggin (gack) . I thinkiFG is dumb, but my 13 & 18 yr olds crack up at it. The baby on that show *is* hilarious, I admit. I know peep here (MDC-here) do not know my boys, and I could be lying and the could be felons serving time. But really, they are very sweet, mature, intelligent & thougtful human beings.

So, I really don't care what they watch. I know, I suck as an MDC mother.







I just really need to hand in my Good & Crunchy Parent card. DH, too, because he is even less concerned. He was a little kid in Southern Europe watching dubbed reruns of John Wayne killing ******, and he turned into a pacifiist scientist geekola. And I when I say Geek-O-La, I mean Geek-O-La. I have to dress him some mornings. Oy. "Honey-- do *not* wear those pants with that shirt unless you want the other researchers to steal your lunch money".


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

I do not worry about his behaviour changing, so much as I worry about protecting his spirit.

A lot of the shows he wants to watch are graphic, and have mature content. Some of it discusses things I am not sure he is ready to learn about (Family Guy mentionned partial birth abortion, for example), and, well, I just don't like the tone. I do not beleive violence is entertaining, so why do they make shows that focus on it? And why do they continually push the envelope on graphic violence, gore and general darkness?

I rember watching a show on PBS years ago in which Dr. Northrup (I think) said she does not beieve in watching too much news - she did not beleive in letting that much negativity into the pysche. I feel the same way about violent TV shows.

I have a lot of reasons for being displeased with TV at this moment in time, I don't want to support such shows....I have strong opinions on the matter.

None-the-less, I have been s-l-o-w-l-y loosening the rules about what can and cannot be watched, and he watches stuff I do not think is appropriate in the name of compromise, but it changes little. He does not appreciate all he gets to watch, only thinks of what he is not allowed to watch, and does not listen to the word "no" on the matter, which gets very tiring. Quite honestly, I feel verbally harassed about the issue from my DS.

Kathy


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## KermitMissesJim (Feb 12, 2004)

Your reasons are sound. Stand firm, and don't let him wear you down. You are doing the best thing for him. And I would probably downgrade the satellite package.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kathymuggle* 
I do not worry about his behaviour changing, so much as I worry about protecting his spirit.

A lot of the shows he wants to watch are graphic, and have mature content. Some of it discusses things I am not sure he is ready to learn about (Family Guy mentionned partial birth abortion, for example), and, well, I just don't like the tone. I do not beleive violence is entertaining, so why do they make shows that focus on it? And why do they continually push the envelope on graphic violence, gore and general darkness?

I rember watching a show on PBS years ago in which Dr. Northrup (I think) said she does not beieve in watching too much news - she did not beleive in letting that much negativity into the pysche. I feel the same way about violent TV shows.

I have a lot of reasons for being displeased with TV at this moment in time, I don't want to support such shows....I have strong opinions on the matter.

None-the-less, I have been s-l-o-w-l-y loosening the rules about what can and cannot be watched, and he watches stuff I do not think is appropriate in the name of compromise, but it changes little. He does not appreciate all he gets to watch, only thinks of what he is not allowed to watch, and does not listen to the word "no" on the matter, which gets very tiring. Quite honestly, I feel verbally harassed about the issue from my DS.

Kathy


What would happen if he watched what he wanted for while? What would happen if he heard 'jokes' about partial birth abortion? Do you think his personality would change? Would he think parital birth abortion is a joke? Take it to the next level...what would happen if he had more control over his viewing?

Of course, easy for me to say, as we don't get 12 zillion channels, so I know most of the progaming choices revolve around urging people to buy The Magic Bullet, and the newest butt lifter. I also get some crazy show with Mrs Brady about living well in your old age. Absolutely riviting.


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

Wow, you all chimed in while I was writing my second post. You rock, MDC'ers.

I do believe none of you turned into serial killers







: It is nice to be reminded of that.

When it comes right down to it, I think it is a respect issue. He is not being respectful of my boundaries around TV, and I am not being very respectful about his desire for more TV freedom (although...my home is not a democracy. At 11 I do beleive I have the obligation to make some decisions for him) This issue has been going on for so long (at least a year) that sometimes I tune him out. I am so weary of it, it is a self presevation technique.

I don't like the fact that I am tuning him out, and that there does not seem to be a resolution to the issue, so I am hoping by going down to basic I am removing some of the impetous for the disrespect.

I have threattened to turn the TV into an art object (it's just a joke - sort-of)

Ugh. Advice still neded. Anyone BTDT?

Kathy


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## Morganfyre (Jun 7, 2007)

Talk about a kid testing his limits! Do not give in. If you have to, remove the TV from the house. Get serious about it. If he complains, shove a book in his hand. I went for three years growing up at that age without a TV. I suffered no ill consequences, except that I acquired an expensive book habit!







Pull the plug on what you deem to be inappropriate. It's called parenting, and far too few people are doing it now-a-days.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

EDITED. My kids hate when I post certain info, so I edtied due to TMI.

I would say, talk to him, hear him out. Communication is key to good relationships. You are his parent, but he is also a person with his own thoughts and ideas.

Just go slow, and keep things open.


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## E.V. Lowi (Sep 16, 2005)

..


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

We love TV and we have no limits on it in our household. I do not personally enjoy watching or hearing really violent or scary things. My kids watch more of that than I do so they watch those things in another room if possible. Having more than one TV in the house has been really helpful for us with that.









The shows you listed that you don't allow are some favorites around here! We encourage each kid to pay attention to their own comfort level and personal boundaries, and we try to respect each other's limits as well. I don't think that has to mean that I need to control what everyone is watching though. If I have concerns over something in a show I share them in a casual way. We've discussed the reasons parents tend to freak out over this stuff. More often than not "questionable content" has been great food for discussing things with each other.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Morganfyre* 
Talk about a kid testing his limits! Do not give in. If you have to, remove the TV from the house. Get serious about it. If he complains, shove a book in his hand. I went for three years growing up at that age without a TV. I suffered no ill consequences, except that I acquired an expensive book habit!







Pull the plug on what you deem to be inappropriate. It's called parenting, and far too few people are doing it now-a-days.


While I respect your right to view TV the way you do, I think your last sentence is a little bit snarky. Does this mean that families with no restrictions on TV are not parenting?


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

I'm in the minority again it seems. I am right with you on restricting his viewing of violent tv shows. I agree with your point about not watching much news myself.

My dd1 is 11. There is no way I'd let her watch CSI - as much as I think it is a good show for adults, or even mature teens.

Reducing your cable to basic is probably good for the budget as well as ds issues. But we have basic and get CSI and Family Guy (never heard of that other one that you mentioned). So I'm not sure that would help with those.

I'd explain to him how frustrated you are about being nagged over his desire to watch adult programming (which is what it is). You aren't the mean mom who thinks he should watch Barney; you are making choices to protect him emotionally from things that (in your opinion for your child - and mine for mine as well) are just not appropriate for him yet.

My dd seems to do better when I remind her that the day will come that she gets to (whatever it is). Nagging me isn't going to get your ears pierced before your 12th birthday, but it will put me in a grumpy mood.

She also did a lot of nagging about her desire to buy clothes I thought were too mature for her - at a current favorite clothing store. There were some things there that we both agreed on, and plenty that weren't ok with me. The fighting over what was appropriate and what wasn't was really annoying. I am her mother; I am the adult. She gets lots of choices over her clothes, but some things are not ok with me. Much like the tv show issue. I explained to her how problematic the bickering was, and how we didn't have that problem at the Gap. She wanted to stay and shop in the new store, so she has really quit asking for things that are too old for her.

With tv, I'd explain to him why you don't want him to watch those shows, then restrict tv if he can't respect your very reasonable rules. What I wouldn't do is let him nag you into watching things that aren't age appropriate.

However, my kids get to listen to any music they want - so I guess my "age appropriateness" doesn't apply to that in my house.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

I fully agree that you should go to basic. It's your house, it's your TV. Just explain that you are tired of this debate and that he is free to watch those shows when he's old enough to get his own space and pay for his own cable. The rights come with the responsibility. If he can figure out a way to do that (without begging money from grandparents or something...) then let him watch the shows.

In our family, we all watched the same things. The same will be with my daughter. I think television watching should be a family activity.

However, it's easy to do that from the start. A bit harder (heh, to say the least) with an eleven-year-old.

Good luck!


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## kennedy444 (Aug 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kathymuggle* 
I do not worry about his behaviour changing, so much as I worry about protecting his spirit.

A lot of the shows he wants to watch are graphic, and have mature content.

This is why I don't let me soon-to-be 11 yr old watch these type of shows either. Or movies like "Scary Movie" or video games like "Grand Theft Auto". Even though "all his friends" do. So what? I'm his parent, not theirs!

Hey, I even felt the need to do my own bit of editing during some of the "Ugly Betty" episodes last season. He heard a few, "close your eyes" or "cover your ears" from me.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

I think there's a difference between "what would you do in this situation" and "what do you suggest I do in this situation."

Lots of people here wouldn't restrict the TV as much as the OP. That's a legitimate option, but it doesn't work with KathyMuggle's values.

What I picked up on is the fact that she's setting limits, he's ignoring them, and she's slowly giving up on her ideals because of the child's nagging. And IMO that is *NOT* OK. If mom's rules are unreasonable, then let's sit down and discuss them- maybe the child is ready for more freedom and the rules could be changed.

But nagging is just the opposite- not a respectful discussion of the rules and the reasons behind them, but just a disrespectful way of trying to get what he wants. Even if the show IS appropriate, I wouldn't want to let my child watch after being pestered about TV watching. If he's not respecting the limits placed on the TV, or appreciating the compromises being made, then I'd limit the TV further. He needs to learn to treat his mother respectfully- which won't happen if he "gets what he wants" by being disrespectful.


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## oliveoildog (Jun 16, 2007)

Quote:

Talk about a kid testing his limits! Do not give in. If you have to, remove the TV from the house. Get serious about it. If he complains, shove a book in his hand. I went for three years growing up at that age without a TV. I suffered no ill consequences, except that I acquired an expensive book habit! Pull the plug on what you deem to be inappropriate. It's called parenting, and far too few people are doing it now-a-days.
Excellent.

Even as an adult , I find excessive violence can leave me very upset. I've had to censor myself. THere is some things that children cannot decide for themselves and mature adults have to help them.


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

OK...sevral people have said the word "nagging" - which is exactly what it is! I guess I will have to be more careful when I want housework done, know that I know how it feels!

I came to realisation last night after writing all this - what is going on is a power struggle. For the most part, children do not put an end to power struggles - parents do.

I either have to lighten up on the TV control or draw a firm line in the sand around TV and nagging. Given my own (and DH) concerns around TV, it will be the latter.

I also appreciate those who said "keep the lines of communication open". For example: I think part of the cause of this situation is he wants more freedom. We have been trying to meet this need in other areas, but he is focusing on his lack of freedom in this area (perhaps that is natural for an 11 yr old- and I need to accept that 11 yr olds want what they do not have? As an adult I am much more into appreciating what you have, but maybe that comes with time?). I have diffiuclty keeping the lines of communication open in this area, as we have rehashed the info so many times - we simply disagree. Quite frankly, I need a complete hiatus on the subject, and he seems to need to talk about it daily







In some ways, the breakdown of communication is scarier, and less healthy, than the TV issue.

OK I am rambling. Please send me strength (we need a strength smilie of some sort) to do what I need to do in the most respectful way possible.

Kathy


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## LilyGrace (Jun 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kathymuggle* 
When it comes right down to it, I think it is a respect issue. He is not being respectful of my boundaries around TV, and I am not being very respectful about his desire for more TV freedom (although...my home is not a democracy. At 11 I do beleive I have the obligation to make some decisions for him) This issue has been going on for so long (at least a year) that sometimes I tune him out. I am so weary of it, it is a self presevation technique.


You're right, it is a respect issue on both ends. I don't think what he's asking for is too out of line.

Quote:

He wants me to "check out" shows before I judge them - but seriously, I do not want to spend my scant free time watching violents, icky shows.
He has a very good point. Otherwise you're just going on hear-say and what the commercials show. If you did check them out, and told him exactly why you don't agree with him watching each how, that shows a higher level of respect for him than "do it because I say so". KWIM?


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## mcng (Oct 17, 2006)

While we do restrict some stuff we dont do forbidden fruit, the more you restric those shows the more cool you r son is goint to think they are.


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## enkmom (Aug 30, 2004)

I have only one clear-cut, non-negotiable subject in my home, and I just repeated as often as was necessary "I know that all your friends are doing this, but it goes against my values. Please respect my wishes on this." My son knows I gave the issue serious thought and knows I didn't just make up some random rule.

As far as television goes, I have never restricted television or books. We watch most television together, and discuss it in depth. Nine times out of ten they would rather draw or read a book.


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## kate3 (May 4, 2007)

Wow, I am so in the minority. I restrict TV on a regular basis, including hours watched per day. I feel there are so many other more productive things they could be doing instead of sitting in front of the TV: reading, playing with each other or friends, drawing, listening to music, and being outside on bikes, scooters, etc (weather permitting).

I have explained it this way: some shows are for children and some for adults. If I don't want them watching a certain show I say so and explain why (language, violence). It is the same reason I restrict internet access. Our "family" computer is in an open, common area so there is no unsupervised computer time. The same is true for the TV.


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## polka hop (Dec 23, 2003)

*


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KermitMissesJim* 
Your reasons are sound. Stand firm, and don't let him wear you down. You are doing the best thing for him. And *I would probably downgrade the satellite package*.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten* 
*Reducing your cable to basic is probably good for the budget as well as ds issues*. But we have basic and get CSI and Family Guy (never heard of that other one that you mentioned). So I'm not sure that would help with those.


I fail to understand how downgrading your package will help if all of these shows are on network TV and therefor available over the air with rabbit ears.

CSI and Prison Break are favorites in our house. DD watches all three of them. It is what sparked her interest in wanting to be a doctor. First she wanted to be a CSI. Then a coroner, then a surgeon, now she is not sure what type of doctor but she wants to go to Medical School.

I don't watch Prison Break but she watches it with dad.. and well no one in our house watches the family guy.. but it is my understanding that that is also on network TV.

Another part of the problem may be other kids. This might be why he wont let up on this issue. Everyone is probably talking about what happened on CSI, the Family Guy, Prison Break at school. Because you don't allow him to watch these shows, he can't participate in the conversation and feels left out. Maybe made fun of. Just something to think about.


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## Alenushka (Jul 27, 2002)

as a aprent you deside what you elt him wathc,
My older DS is alsmot 12 and his is gifted nad read books above his grade levle. He like to watch law and Order with me stometim. and Waht Not To Wear. Ia m OK with it.
We let hima dn his yougner brother wathc Simpson and Futurama, but we do it togehter and tlak about things
CSI si way too grpahic and Fmaily Guy...well thing can be taken a wrong way, so, theya re ntoa llowed to wathc it
as fas as INternet, he work on my laptop in the living room so Ic an see where he goes. We said NO to Warcraft


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

At 11, I was very sensitive, and although I would have watched something like CSI and probably enjoyed it at the time, I would have been very disturbed by what I saw later -- a couple of episodes of that show have disturbed me even as an adult. I'm glad that my mom understood my sensitive nature and protected me from viewing such subjects when I was young, and I'll do the same for my kids.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

I think helping them stay safe from things they feel they aren't ready for is important too. I just think it can be done without prohibition and banning and me deciding for them, esp at that age.


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## AbundantLife (Jun 4, 2005)

I prefer that my 13 year old not watch television shows with adult themes. He does like "Scrubs" but we limit that show. I think Family Guy is completely inappropriate for an 11 year old.

We did only have the basic cable package (basically just the local channels with Discovery and PBS) for almost a year. It really did cure the TV watching drones my kids had become.

We have the upgraded cable package now but they still really prefer Discovery and Nickelodeon.


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## yogachick79 (Apr 4, 2006)

This is a very interesting thread and like a few others I think I am in the minority here. I DO limit what DD is able to watch based on content.

I know that there are girls in her class (3rd grade last year) who were watching things like Greys Anatomy and other shows that I would lable adult based on sex scenes, violence, etc and would discuss them amongst themselves. Honestly that is not a conversation that I am worried about her being left out of, I'd rather she was. We are open about anything and everything in our house, and DD and I talk freely, but I would much rather these things be on our terms than a forced issue by a TV show.

That said, yes I think this is a respect issue as well, and if you can find a good compromise than that would be great. But I guess I am old fashioned in my thinking that you are the mom and what you say goes...







:


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## warriorprincess (Nov 19, 2001)

We simply do not allow any "live" TV, DVD only (DH and I don't watch it either, except for The Simpsons from time to time). We have very few movies in our possession we don't let the kids watch.


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## captivatedlife (Aug 16, 2006)

Posting before I read, don't







:me!

I say, get rid of it. TV has an incredible impact on a person. Of course, I've been tv free for a year......

Violence begets violence. If he wants to watch violent shows, have him watch the news. There are so many other things for an 11 year old to watch. He's in 6th grade? I, personally, don't think it's appropriate.

And if you get rid of the packages, you'll save money!


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## PikkuMyy (Mar 26, 2004)

We don't do "live" TV either, just DVDs. I grew up without any television set at all so it's easy for me, and DH also likes not having TV. We choose to watch shows or movies, no advertising. We don't have kids yet but when we do, it will be the same. Then there's no arguing over shows except in the video store!

I'm down with a lot of nonrestricted things but this isn't one of them. I will definitely choose what my kids watch.

I think that KM has hit the nail on the head - the power struggle has to stop, and it's her that has to stop it. Personally, I would downgrade so that there are less TV options, and give your son a list of shows you are OK with him watching, and make sure that you fully discuss why you have not included some of the shows he wants to watch. Talk about why he wants to see them, and make sure he knows you understand that.

But don't argue about it any more.


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## PiePie (Oct 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kathymuggle* 
although...my home is not a democracy. At 11 I do beleive I have the obligation to make some decisions for him

this is the key point. i would feel diferently if he were much older.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

I think that's why I stick out like a sore thumb here.









I *do* believe he should have a say in these things at age 11. Or even age 8. That's the difference in my family, and it's why I just can never relate in these situations.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa* 
I think that's why I stick out like a sore thumb here.









I *do* believe he should have a say in these things at age 11. Or even age 8. That's the difference in my family, and it's why I just can never relate in these situations.

Me neither. My 4.5 year old is remarkably good at judging what she does and doesn't want to watch. She loves things like Scrubs and Gray's Anatomy and House, but she's recently decided that she doesn't want to watch scary movies sometimes, and that's fine . . . it's her decision. Up until recently, she liked horror movies better than I do!

Unless there's some kind of behavior problem that can be traced back to the shows a kid is watching, I don't see any reason to restrict things. Seems like an unnecessary battle to choose.


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## Decca (Mar 14, 2006)

Downgrading to basic cable isn't going to help here, particularly as the shows he wants to watch are all on network tv.

As for the argument that maybe all the other kids are watching these shows, maybe I am hopelessly uncool, but are you seriously saying that Prison Break is popular with tweens and parents are okay with that? I'm an adult and I get freaked out and disturbed by that show. There is no way in the world I would allow someone that young to watch it. No freaking way.


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

I'm reading this and thinking that if we switch 'TV' for 'book' what would the responses be?

Maybe you could not talk about it - either of you - for a week then sit down and have a discussion about your fears for him watching this stuff and his reasons for wanting to watch it.

My boys are like UnschoolnMa's and watch all kinds of stuff. We don't have a cable package just what's called freeview but we can still watch a lot of diiferent programmes. These guys would watch Scrubs 24/7 if they could and at 10 and 14 they are 'getting' more and more of the jokes. They could watch CSI if they wanted but they aren't interested in it. We control their tv watching by making them go to bed between 9 and 10pm.


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kate3* 
Wow, I am so in the minority. I restrict TV on a regular basis, including hours watched per day. I feel there are so many other more productive things they could be doing instead of sitting in front of the TV: reading, playing with each other or friends, drawing, listening to music, and being outside on bikes, scooters, etc (weather permitting).

I have explained it this way: some shows are for children and some for adults. If I don't want them watching a certain show I say so and explain why (language, violence). It is the same reason I restrict internet access. Our "family" computer is in an open, common area so there is no unsupervised computer time. The same is true for the TV.


This is what I will plan on doing. I won't let my kid watch violent shows when he is 11. I don't think it will change him, but I don't see how it's positive, either.

And we already don't allow nagging.

I also believe in good and open communication but unlike the way some believe on MDC, we are the parents, he is the kid, and the parents have some priveleges the kids don't, and the kids have some rules the parents don't. I know some people find that horrible, LOL.


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## hammycakes (Feb 4, 2007)

We limit tv for everyone in the house, voluntarily. It just makes me mad when I turn it on







: We don't have cable, and the of the few channels we get, at least 1/3 of them are in spanish or are christian channels with preaching 24/7.
About once a week we will all watch a program on PBS together or get something through netflix.
Where do people get the time to watch all this tv? We are always so busy doing other stuff..
Anyway, I agree it's a power struggle. I am going through a different one with my 11 yo dd and it just seems to be a more sophisticated version of the toddler "me do it myself!"
Draw your lines and stand firm- your attitudes and the way you both work this out will be a foundation for bigger and better/or worse things in the next few years! I think of that when I need resolve to deal with the issues for the 1000th time.

Good luck and be gentle but strong!


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa* 
I think that's why I stick out like a sore thumb here.









I *do* believe he should have a say in these things at age 11. Or even age 8. That's the difference in my family, and it's why I just can never relate in these situations.


You're not a minority. I see a lot of parents with your philosophy.

DH was raised w/ pretty much no rules. He said his parents did him a disservice by allowing him to do pretty much anything he wanted. I agree. I've seen other kids raised similarly and the ones *I* have seen with *my* own eyes, are kind of messed up (and of course their parents don't think so, lol).

Again....this is MY observation. I have seen some mamas on here say their kids have no rules, and they describe their kids, and they seem to have kids w/ good head on their shoulders. So obviously, it works for some people. But I do feel that they are the exception and not the norm, based on the MANY families I have known personally that do the No Rules/Everyone Equal philosophy.


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## enkmom (Aug 30, 2004)

What is "messed up", Karina5? My children have grown up in an "everybody's equal" household, and unless I'm deluding myself, they are kind, respectful people that others like to be around. I grew up in my MOTHER'S home (we just got to live there temporarily), and I want my children to grow up in OUR home. Their opinions have been listened to and respected from the time they were old enough to express them. There has been plenty of guidance, I didn't just throw them cigarettes and the remote and say have at it! They are grown for the most part now, and if my biggest crime is that they sometimes got to watch inappropriate T.V. shows, I consider myself a success.

*no, my children don't smoke, and they rarely have time to watch television.


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *enkmom* 
What is "messed up", Karina5? My children have grown up in an "everybody's equal" household, and unless I'm deluding myself, they are kind, respectful people that others like to be around. I grew up in my MOTHER'S home (we just got to live there temporarily), and I want my children to grow up in OUR home. Their opinions have been listened to and respected from the time they were old enough to express them. There has been plenty of guidance, I didn't just throw them cigarettes and the remote and say have at it! They are grown for the most part now, and if my biggest crime is that they sometimes got to watch inappropriate T.V. shows, I consider myself a success.

*no, my children don't smoke, and they rarely have time to watch television.


Like I said, there are families this works for. Apparently yours is one of them.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

I was talking to my dh about this, and he remined me that for a long time we didn't even have TV (when our first was a baby and toddler) and as he's 18, we didn't even have a laptop to watch movies. He reminded me that TV wasn't an issue because our kid didn't know about TV, and we didn't watch TV at all for a really long time, just because we didn't own one, not because we were against it. When ds was turning 4, and his sister arrived, my FIL had abought us a tiny TV and a VCR, and we had a cousin of ours tape Sesame St episodes for us. So by 4, he had seen TV. I absolutely remember turning the VCR on for him as I fiddled with the SNS and got a nearly 4 mos old onto the breast.

We only bought another TV later, for our bedroom, so I could nurse the 3rd child, while I closed the toddler in the bedroom with me. It was another small thing, and again no reception...I think then we had something called Lifeline, which only allowed a couple of channels, and no cable anything. I think that is when we got PBS without our cousin taping them for us. lol.

For years, our kids didn't even turn on commercial TV. It just was not a part of our lives, except for movies on the VCR. We never had TV arguments or nagging. So maybe we were relaxed by default. Dh also said there was a time we didn't even turn the TV for anything during the week. Niether of us remember that being an issue with the kids...ok, I just asked the kids...they don't remember that in a negative or postive way. They are sitting here kinda shrugging about it.

I know we get Grey's Anatomy, Scrubs, Malcolm in the Middle, PBS etc. I dont know what Networks, and we do not have History Channel or Discovery or Nick etc. I've never seen CSI , but dh has and he says he would not feel comfortable having an 8 yr old watch it, and I respect his judgement, he's very relaxed as a person, so if he thinks it's too much, it probably is. Not that our 8 yr old has seen that, or even asked.

My 8, 13 and 15 yr olds are sitting here playing UNO and I asked them if they had seen CSI or Grey's Anatomy, and the teens said they heard of those, but have never seen them. The 8 yr old never heard of either. So whatever on that. They all like Scrubs, with the 8 yr old saying , " I don't really care".

Much of what people are talking about here, I really should not comment on, as it's not even come up. I think we don't have TV 'issues' because they never really watched, maybe? I don't worry because it's not a big deal? Fwiw, my 13 yr old attends school and he says people don't really talk about TV shows, except American Idol.









So, ok, I don't limit, but looking at it, it's simply not an issue, so it hardly seems fair for me to throw in my two cents about this. I also don't know how I would feel if my 8 yr old wanted to watch CSI, especially given what my chilll dh said.

It's not forbidden fruit here, basically it's a non issue.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

I just have a practical suggestion. My parents did this because of violent shows I wanted to watch like the Bionic Woman and Charlie's Angels.









Tell your son he can make a quarterly (every three months) presentation to you and your husband on the shows he wants to watch and why and you guys listen and then you all talk about it and agree on the shows that are okay for the next three months. Be open to allowing some change, or giving him a "test episode" that you all watch together -before- the meeting.

That way you do listen to him, but it's not every day nagging. Plus you get a chance to talk about your values every three months!

(Pick a schedule that works for you of course.)


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa* 
I think that's why I stick out like a sore thumb here.









I *do* believe he should have a say in these things at age 11. Or even age 8. That's the difference in my family, and it's why I just can never relate in these situations.









I love you. You have the best attitude.

You may stick out like a sore thumb on MDC, but i think most kids don't have TV restrictions. The difference between you and most folks 'out there' is that you talk to your kids about what they watch, and most folks don't care/know what their kids watch.

Considering the number of children in America with TVs computers and laptops in their bedrooms, and the numbr of Dish TV things I see on rooves and lawns, most kids are watching anything they wish, and lots of it.


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## Naturalyst (Feb 3, 2007)

DH and I discussed this thread, recalled the occasional struggles over TV, and agreed that issues started around the age of the OP's son.

Our limits were with regard to the amount of TV exposure, rarely about content. We encouraged and provided alternate ways to spend free time - physical activities, social activities, projects, etc.. We watched as a family if a program was edgy and took those opportunities to discuss content. Skirmishes over TV were minor and did seem to be more of a flex of independence than anything else.

The OP asked for advice, so here's mine --

I suggest the OP use this issue as a learning experience for the greater struggles to come because there appear to be two underlying reasons for the lack or resolution here - things that are apt to recur as problematic in future struggles.

First, "Because I'm the mommy, that's why" won't stifle argument as children get older. That's the double-edge of raising children to question and reason -- they will use those acquired skills against you







:Your argument needs to be credible. So, if you are going to object to a particular show, do so because you've watched it and can articulate your objections in specifics. You are teaching your child, by your example here, to think - to reason.

Second, be prepared to bend. Consider that your child might have valid arguments. By 11, for better or worse, his moral core is fully-formed. Unless you have an at-risk child, it would be hard to argue that media may sway him to "the dark side". And, if topics are coming-up during shows watched by your son's peers, know that those topics are prime for discussion whether your son has seen the show,or not.

Overall, remember that the battle with your son over autonomy is the consequence of his healthy want of independence and your want to protect him. But, he's supposed to eventually win this battle - when fought well, you are supposed to loose by a series of surrenders that continue until your child is self-reliant and on his own.

While it's part of letting a child mature to lower boundaries, I agree that boundaries of respect must remain unyielding. The situation at hand provides an opportunity to teach your son the importance of being able to reason through disputes and accept defeats while remaining respectful with loved ones.

You don't want to reward the bad behavior thus far. So, I suggest declaring a time-out by telling your son the topic is closed for the next two weeks. At the end of two weeks, you will be open to discussion but only if he approaches with respect and understands your opinion may be unchanged. Further during these two weeks, tell him you will take the time to watch the show(s) and consider your opinions.

If none of this works - remind your son that some animals eat their young.







:


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karina5* 
I also believe in good and open communication but unlike the way some believe on MDC, we are the parents, he is the kid, and the parents have some priveleges the kids don't, and the kids have some rules the parents don't. I know some people find that horrible, LOL.

I believe I am a parent and I believe my kids are kids. I just don't think it means I am worthy of more respect because I am the parent.









I don't think your way of life is horrible exactly. It's just not right for my family.


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## yogachick79 (Apr 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Naturalyst* 
By 11, for better or worse, his moral core is fully-formed. Unless you have an at-risk child, it would be hard to argue that media may sway him to "the dark side".

While I agree with a lot of what you are saying, I think this statement is off at least based on personal experience. I don't think that moral cores are EVERY fully formed during childhood, but something that is continually shaped by parents, life, surroundings and experience. I know that I was not morally whole as a pre-teen or teenager, and that my exposure to certain things as a young person definitely shaped those years for me. That was with growing up in an incredibly loving, stable home. The same goes for quite a few other people I've known since childhood (yes, we've discussed similar things before







)


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom* 







I love you. You have the best attitude.

You may stick out like a sore thumb on MDC, but i think most kids don't have TV restrictions. The difference between you and most folks 'out there' is that you talk to your kids about what they watch, and most folks don't care/know what their kids watch.

Considering the number of children in America with TVs computers and laptops in their bedrooms, and the numbr of Dish TV things I see on rooves and lawns, most kids are watching anything they wish, and lots of it.

Very very good point! The open discussion about things around here is pretty key. And fun! We have so many TV references that pepper our conversation.


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## nd_deadhead (Sep 22, 2005)

I haven't read all of the replies - forgive me if I am repeating.

My twin boys are 13 (today!) and we restrict their TV and movie viewing, as well as their computer game choices. We also have explained in detail WHY we feel certain things are inappropriate for them at this time.

My biggest concern is with desensitization. Kids who see too much violence on TV are not necessarily going to go out and do violent things, but they will be less appalled by it, by simple virtue of frequent exposure. I WANT my sons to be horrified at violence, and they understand why I feel that way. Once you see something, you can't ever "un-see" it. The same goes for rude and obnoxious attitudes toward others.

As for the OP and her son - yep, he is testing limits. I would sit him down, and explain exactly WHY I think some things are inappropriate for him at his present age, and WHY you are limiting his viewing choices (it isn't just because you're a big old meanie, trying to make his life miserable). At age 11 he should be able to understand your reasons, even if he doesn't like them.

I would also come up with a way to stop the pestering. I am pretty tough - if I threatened to unplug the TV or get rid of cable or something else if he kept being a pest about it, I would follow through (and my sons know this - they have learned the hard way that I mean business!).


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa* 
I believe I am a parent and I believe my kids are kids. I just don't think it means I am worthy of more respect because I am the parent.









I don't think your way of life is horrible exactly. It's just not right for my family.


I don't think that I am worthy of more respect, either, and never said such a thing.

And that's funny wording you use....."my way of life"......not sure what you mean by that.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karina5* 
I don't think that I am worthy of more respect, either, and never said such a thing.

 Oh I didn't mean to imply that you said that. (A bit gets lost in the typing sometimes I think LOL) I do think that making all the media decisions for an 11 year old does say that you are due more respect than they are. You get to decide, but they don't.

Quote:

And that's funny wording you use....."my way of life"......not sure what you mean by that.
 Perhaps "your parenting way of life" would be better. It's tough to get it in a nutshell lol.


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## Naturalyst (Feb 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yogachick79* 
I don't think that moral cores are EVERY fully formed during childhood, but something that is continually shaped by parents, life, surroundings and experience. I know that I was not morally whole as a pre-teen or teenager ... The same goes for quite a few other people I've known since childhood (yes, we've discussed similar things before







)

Hmmm ... are you saying that there have been disagreements on MDC before? I'm shocked!

I suspect we are in agreement, more than not, on this point. It hadn't been my intention to imply that all of morality is set - just that the core is in place. Certainly, as people are exposed to new things, values may be strengthened or honed. My own life shows it is a lifelong process - either that, or I've just never exited childhood.


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## Naturalyst (Feb 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nd_deadhead* 
I am pretty tough - if I threatened to unplug the TV or get rid of cable or something else if he kept being a pest about it, I would follow through (and my sons know this - they have learned the hard way that I mean business!).

I unconnected the cable from our house for two weeks.


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## yogachick79 (Apr 4, 2006)

LMAO Naturalyst







. I know, it's funny because I think this is one of the first threads that I've ever spoken up in, I tend to be pretty shy about stuff...


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

Op here....

Cool discussion! I think my angst over the situation is due to a few things:

1. I see both sides. I do not like imposing my will on my children, particualrly with reference to their likes and dislikes. And yet, I feel I am protecting him by not permitting certain shows, at this time.

2. I wish preteens came with a handbook about what they should be allowed to do and when! I know he si supposed to gain more freedom and make more decisions for himself over time, but when do we bend and how much? I do not know what is age appopriate and what isn't. I feel very confused.

My plan at the moment is to declare a hiatous of 2 weeks to a month (not sure which). During that time no pestering and no watching of anything questionable. After that time I will ask him if there are shows he wants to watch, and I will screen them. I do think screening them is a good idea, as is explaining (again) why they are or are not OK. I just need to let him know that I am not going to do this every day, and that constant badgerment is disrespectful.

I know he does not feel heard on this topic, and I do not know how to fix it. I have listenned to all his reason (he is quite bright, btw...and a darn good arguer, lol) and explained my concerns and reasons ad naseum....we simply do not agree. He takes my disagreeing as me "not hearing him" (he thinks if I "heard him" properly I would understand and agree with him...therefore I must not be listenning).

I am rambling. The moral of this story is take a good long bath to relax and ask the universe for help before dealing with a strong minded, smart 11 yr old!

Kathy


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## StepMo (Nov 20, 2001)

De-lurking, here, to tell you all about a fabulous website we use with our 9 and 13 year old. They have family oriented reviews of movies, dvd's, tv, games, websites, books, etc. It's called Common Sense Media. They use their own reviewers, and there are reviews from parents and kids, as well. We check in there often. My 13 year old is an "at-risk" kid, so we do set some limits, but this website gives us a lot to discuss.

http://www.commonsensemedia.org/

One of the reasons I like this site so much, is that I can get a well-rounded perspective about a movie, without having to watch the whole thing myself! And, their botom line is always, "Know your kid."


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## guardandolaluna (Jun 3, 2007)

TWO WORDS>.... *PARENTAL CONTROLS*!!!










We use them. We love them. We have never had that issue because if the rating is too high to watch you need a password or you get a blank screen







Fortunately my DD is not wanting to watch those things but, anything above disney type things requires our permission. We allow her to see some things like Simpsons. Alot of the things said go over her head. But, she doesn't usually ask for things to unblock only occassionally when a Disney show gets blocked.

I might add.. my DH is one of the nicest most non violent guys I have ever known. He said he had unrestricted TV as a kid. He had seen movies I would have NEVER been allowed to see as a teen. His parents were always working after they immigrated to Australia. He rode the public transportation system alone at 9! I would not advocate that happening with my LOs, but nonetheless.. he turned out to be an awesome guy!


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## guardandolaluna (Jun 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Naturalyst* 
I unconnected the cable from our house for two weeks.









LOL that is funny! I actually rigged the TV so she only got BABY channel, Food TV and TBN! She turned it off and read a book


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## guardandolaluna (Jun 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Naturalyst* 
If none of this works - remind your son that some animals eat their young.







:


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

I don't believe in parental controls. I have never turned them on and I do not intend to. To me turning those on says to your kids, "I don't trust you to make the right choice." Then again, I am also against censorship.

My 8 year old knows she is only to watch the "kid channels" unless she has asked to watch something else. She generally only watches shows she has already Tivoed.

Since we don't have movie channels there are no R rated movies for my 14 year old to watch on TV. And as I have said before, she regularly watches all three CSI's, Prison Break, Shark and other such shows. I am not really worried about what she watches. And she still goes through at least one book a week.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

No parental controls here either. Just eeks me out.


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## Naturalyst (Feb 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
I don't believe in parental controls ... Then again, I am also against censorship.

My 8 year old knows she is only to watch the "kid channels" unless she has asked to watch something else.

Whether you do it by activating a function on your television or by expressing limits, it is still parental control and censorship - neither of which is a *bad* thing.

While we never activated parental controls, we did set standards and I think most families do when what's available on their TV exceeds the maturity and understanding level of their children.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Naturalyst* 
Whether you do it by activating a function on your television or by expressing limits, it is still parental control and censorship - neither of which is a *bad* thing.

While we never activated parental controls, but we did set standards and I think most families do when what's available on their TV exceeds the maturity and understanding level of their children.

I disagree. Setting the controls on the TV tells your child you do not trust them not to watch inappropriate things on TV. Telling them to stick to the Disney's/noggin/nick/sprout channels without setting the controls tells them you trust them to stay within the limits.

Really I am not even sure if I have ever told DD to stick to those channels. I think she just sticks to them because that is what she wants to watch. And as I have said, she Tivo's her favorite shows and watches them later.

I







tivo. You can watch what you want to watch when you want to watch it and don't have to worry about what time something is on.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Naturalyst* 
Whether you do it by activating a function on your television or by expressing limits, it is still parental control and censorship - neither of which is a *bad* thing.

 I disagree that it's not a bad thing. I think you are right that most families do it though.


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## Alenushka (Jul 27, 2002)

and adn really, wher eis the limit...if yourkid want to watch bestiality videos on internet would you le thim?
IF you are no guding your child, what is the point of having parent? You can jsut give me $$$ and let him live on his own.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alenushka* 
and adn really, wher eis the limit...if yourkid want to watch bestiality videos on internet would you le thim?
IF you are no guding your child, what is the point of having parent? You can jsut give me $$$ and let him live on his own.

No one is arguing against guidance . . . but restricting doesn't equal guiding your kids any more than allowing them to choose what they read/watch/hear equals leaving them to their own devices. My daughter (the only child I have old enough to watch tv and express a preference about it) watches whatever she wants. However, she watches most things with us, and we talk about issues and offer our opinions as we go (or after, if we saw something in a movie theater). *That* is guidance.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
No one is arguing against guidance . . . but restricting doesn't equal guiding your kids any more than allowing them to choose what they read/watch/hear equals leaving them to their own devices. My daughter (the only child I have old enough to watch tv and express a preference about it) watches whatever she wants. However, she watches most things with us, and we talk about issues and offer our opinions as we go (or after, if we saw something in a movie theater). *That* is guidance.

Right. Not having prohibitions or bans on TV doesn't equal having no guidance or parental involvement. Very common misconception though...


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## Stinkerbell (Aug 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 
If you don't want him to watch those shows, then don't let him watch. If he keeps badgering you, I'd limit his TV time or choices even furthur to teach him that badgering me is NOT the way to go about getting what he wants.

ITA. We dont have any movie channels and we have parental controls so i can block tv shows AND movies with certain ratings. I have to put in a code to unlock anything above PG-13, and above TV14. He's testing your firmness and boundaries. If you feel that he should not watch XYZ, then you will have to make it so he does not have access to it.


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## warriorprincess (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kathymuggle* 
Op here....

2. I wish preteens came with a handbook about what they should be allowed to do and when! I know he si supposed to gain more freedom and make more decisions for himself over time, but when do we bend and how much? I do not know what is age appopriate and what isn't. I feel very confused.

Kathy


We are there right now with our 10 year old. DH and I are debating over whether we should let him watch "otherwise OK" media that has the F-bomb ( I say that since he knows that word, we should not let it's presence alone preclude something, but DH says it should) and what level of suggestiveness we'll allow (we let him watch some _Firefly_, but not where Inara's profession is specified). It isn't easy.


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

Little update:

We told DS that every 2 or 3 months we would devote a week or so to screening shows he wants to watch. We will explain why the show is or is not OK with us, but that he is not to badger in the meantime.

We wil see how it works outs. I am happy with this plan, and so is he (he is pleased we will screen shows before refusing them, something I have rarely done in the past due to being so tired of the constant, daily nagging )

Kathy


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## Quinalla (May 23, 2005)

Sounds like a good compromise. It wasn't fair for him to constantly nag you, but I am sure he feels it wasn't fair for you to forbid things you hadn't seen. I hope it works out for you and I completely agree with screening things based on age/maturity-appropriateness. It is tough to find the right balance between overprotective and too lenient!


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## NaomiMcC (Mar 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Morganfyre* 
Talk about a kid testing his limits! Do not give in. If you have to, remove the TV from the house. Get serious about it. If he complains, shove a book in his hand. I went for three years growing up at that age without a TV. I suffered no ill consequences, except that I acquired an expensive book habit!







Pull the plug on what you deem to be inappropriate. It's called parenting, and far too few people are doing it now-a-days.

YES! I agree 100%. There are a tonne of movies and television shows we don't let our 12 year old son watch. Why? they're simply inappropriate...mostly the graphic sexual content and other inappropriate topics at hand.

We just say NO and that's the end of it. We keep reminding him that when he turns 17 he'll be able to watch whatever he wants and he'll have lots to catch up on







However if he wants to continue to push, we'll simply not have anything and that'll be the end of it.


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## pjlioness (Nov 29, 2001)

Another suggestion, somewhat NVC (www.cnvc.org). You could tell him that you aren't comfortable with him watching those shows just as you wouldn't be comfortable with the TV characters/situations being real and in your livingroom.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pjlioness* 
You could tell him that you aren't comfortable with him watching those shows just as you wouldn't be comfortable with the TV characters/situations being real and in your livingroom.

Not picking on you but I have heard that before somewhere, and I am not sure I understand. I have enjoyed a variety of movies and TV shows that feature situations I'd never want to be involved in. CSI is, in my opinion, a really well acted show (well, the original anyway...lol) with lots of drama, dialogue, and twists and turns. I would be pretty irritated if the whole show was happening at my house though. Doing an autopsy in my living room would be pretty wrong to say the least... so does that mean we shouldn't enjoy the acting or the story?

Perhaps I am missing the point of the suggestion.

What about old Hitchcock stuff? Or Anne of Green Gables? Discovery channel even features stuff about disease and the History channel features some not so bright spots from the past. (WW II ?) It's informative and factual (one would hope anyway...) but not always something you'd want happening around you or in your home. Does that mean you shouldn't view it?


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## pjlioness (Nov 29, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa* 
Not picking on you but I have heard that before somewhere, and I am not sure I understand. I have enjoyed a variety of movies and TV shows that feature situations I'd never want to be involved in. CSI is, in my opinion, a really well acted show (well, the original anyway...lol) with lots of drama, dialogue, and twists and turns. I would be pretty irritated if the whole show was happening at my house though. Doing an autopsy in my living room would be pretty wrong to say the least... so does that mean we shouldn't enjoy the acting or the story?

Perhaps I am missing the point of the suggestion.

What about old Hitchcock stuff? Or Anne of Green Gables? Discovery channel even features stuff about disease and the History channel features some not so bright spots from the past. (WW II ?) It's informative and factual (one would hope anyway...) but not always something you'd want happening around you or in your home. Does that mean you shouldn't view it?

I guess that probably would work better with her objections to Family Guy. For CSI and other crime shows, she might tell him she's concerned about him (frequently) watching shows that have a murder in every episode, making it look like there is more crime than there is in real life.


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## Tigeresse (Nov 19, 2001)

From someone who used to restrict TV and now does not....

I agree w/unschoolinma and others who have expressed similar views. I think our kids can be trusted with a lot more than we give them credit for, esp when parents remain involved. That said, my 11 yo is not interested in the shows OP has mentioned, but he has seen some R rated movies and plays some M rated video games. The one thing I do not allow is for him to talk on the xbox live mic until his voice changes. 8 yo ds plays xbox and has seen pg13 movies, yet he prefers more youthful games on Gamecube or his DS. He loves Disney Channel. I think the kids really can be trusted to distinguish reality from fiction, which I did not believe when my oldest was younger. He has turned into a wonderful young man, and not due to my earlier restriction on his media, I believe. He just had to work harder to get listened to by me and dh. Some may interpret this as nagging, but I see it as a child expressing his needs/desires (he also remained respectful of my fears when doing this) and having a parent that would listen. I hated while growing up when my parents would simply "lay down the law" without discussion, as if I had nothing of value to say. Made me more obsessed with "freedom" when I got older and made me want to get out of the house sooner. Not what I want for my kids.

I have found that since I have lightened up, there is very little desire for the younger kids to watch/play things that make *me* uncomfortable with their watching it. Lots more openess and trust all the way around.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

I have the parental controls on my tv BECAUSE my children have proven to me they cannot be trusted









My older kids are 13 and almost 17 and they will put on House(which I love) or CSI among other things when the little ones who are in the room.

My 4 year old is scared of the Harry Potter ads for goodness sake..she is so sensitive.

They have their own televisions and can watch pretty much whatever they want at the age they are at now as long as it doesn`t become all they do.

I kind of just play it by ear with the kids. They are all different, some more sensitive than others. My oldest LOVES scary movies, my 13 year old won`t watch them.

The little ones watch dvds and treehouse mainly.

BTW...my experience is that when my older kids were pre teen they were very mature and we did discuss tv and what I thought they should or shouldn`t watch and they pretty much made wise decisions. When they hit their teens, that changed, particularly with my oldest.

and I am totally against censorship...but I think I have the right to choose for myself and my family until my family are mature enough to decide for themselves. It`s not like the movie goes away. My 13 year wanted to see 8 Mile when seh was younger and I said no. She recently watched it and was ready for it I believe. I asked her, should you have watched that when you were 8 or 9, do you think it`s ok for `V` (my neice) to watch and she agreed it was too much for her.

anyway..I have to run but I am enjoying this discussion.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Dd watched 8 Mile when she was 11 or so I think. She found it really interesting. Much before that though and I think she'd have been both bored with it in places and embarrased in others.


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## shpica (Aug 7, 2007)

I am on the side of restricting TV. I don't like my 3 yo watching Power Rangers, Ying Yang Yo, Billy and Mandy and a whole lot of others. I don't know why, I just don't. He will never watch The Simpsons while he's living in my house no matter how old he is.

Kids pick up things off of tv, that's why my son and another I know say "ah, man" from Dora the Explorer.

Now I do have a teenager in the house and he has his own tv in his room, which I never liked but since he's my DH's child and not mine that was not one battle I didn't wanted to continue to fight. When he watches tv in the living room, anything he watches has to be G rated, okay for the kids to watch. Needless to say he doesn't watch much here, he'd rather go to his room. And BTW a year ago or so he made the transition from watching TV alot to being online alot. He'd rather be playing Rune Scape than watch TV. Your son might do the same. Which, by the way you can also block websites by keywords: sex, boobs, kill, etc.

About restricting TV, we have cable and cable boxes on all the tv's in the house so that I can block any channel I want. I can block by channel, by tv rating, or by time. The TV my 3 yo watches is blocked all the time so if he wants to watch something I have to put in a pin number for him to watch just that show or just that channel or anything for a specific time range. The little booger new how to turn on the tv a long time ago. Your satellite company should have something like that, or maybe your tv does. Every show has a rating so call your satellite company they might have a suggestion for you. And that'll enforce your decision and prevent "sneaking" a unapproved show in.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shpica* 
Now I do have a teenager in the house and he has his own tv in his room, which I never liked but since he's my DH's child and not mine that was not one battle I didn't wanted to continue to fight. When he watches tv in the living room, anything he watches has to be G rated, okay for the kids to watch. *Needless to say he doesn't watch much here, he'd rather go to his room.* And BTW a year ago or so he made the transition from watching TV alot to being online alot. He'd rather be playing Rune Scape than watch TV. Your son might do the same. Which, by the way you can also block websites by keywords: sex, boobs, kill, etc.

I think I would rather a teenager watch TV with the family than in a room by himself. Then at least you would know what he is watching and could talk about it. Also going off to his room all the time by himself probably makes him feel like his not part of the family. Especially with you calling him your "DH's child" as opposed to your stepson.


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

We have discoverred Runescape. Both Ds and DH play it - it is cool with me.

I know you do not think you have a say in whether stepson has a TV in his room (and maybe you don't) but with regards to the other children, I would not allow Tv or computers* to go into their rooms.

We only have 1 TV and I love it!!! Yes, Ds is a naggy little guy...but there are 5 people in this household, so, at most, Ds is entitled to TV 1/5 of the time. It is a naturally occuring boundary, yk? Much better than the control issue mommy-kind.

Kathy

* I would try to make a case for removing the computer from the bedroom for safety reasons (cyber-bullying, internet predators, gaming, porn, etc). Perhaps you could suggest a compromise with DH - TV in stepsons room, but no Computer? IMHO 14 is too young to have a computer in a non-public space.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

We've had no problem with TV's and computers in rooms here. My son has both in his room, and Dd has a TV in her room often. It works well for us because we can all watch what we are interested in if different shows come on at the same time, ya know?


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa* 
We've had no problem with TV's and computers in rooms here. My son has both in his room, and Dd has a TV in her room often. It works well for us because we can all watch what we are interested in if different shows come on at the same time, ya know?









Same here. Although DD does not have satellite in her room. She does however watch CSI and other shows over the air with an antenna.







She also has her DVD player and picks movies from DH's huge collection of movies. Since we have no "adult" type movies.. she is free to watch any of the movies she wants. (there are plenty of R rated ones.) She also has a laptop that she uses in her room, or where ever the mood strikes her.


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shpica* 
I don't know why, I just don't.

This is going to be a tricky position to maintain in the future unless you are training your children to never challenge or question you.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shpica* 
He will never watch The Simpsons while he's living in my house no matter how old he is.

Is the Simpsons the epitome of all that is evil in the world? Have I missed something? All the children in our house leap onto the sofa Simpson-style at 6pm and we all love watching it.

We have only 1 tv in the house and I don't want the boys to be in their room watching tv on their own: I would rather they argue over what to watch here where I can see them! Also having only 1 tv somewhat limits how much they watch because they have to negotiate with each other, their sister and us.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

LOL I just had to giggle because we are watching Simpsons right now.







Bart is such a turkey.


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## Nankay (Jan 24, 2002)

Those who say they had unrestricted tv as kids...OK, I did too..BUT TV was a waayy different animal when I was a kid (70's) I mean it got as violent as 6 Million Dollar Man and Starsky and Hutch. The other day I turned on CSI (I think) and there was a mutilated woman corpse wrapped in packing tape who they found out freqented a sex club.
Now WHY would I want my 11 yr old to see that? That it waay different than watching Steve Austin throw someone across the room in slo-mo.


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## pjlioness (Nov 29, 2001)

:







:

...except that I didn't have unrestricted TV. We had one in the living room and one in my folks' bedroom. I didn't have a TV in my room unless I was home sick from school, and then it was the 6" B&W from my folks' room, or, after we finally got a color TV and VCR for the livingroom in 1984, I got that old B&W. When I was a Junior in HS in 1986, they finally let me have it (old livingroom B&W) in my room full-time, but I didn't watch it much, especially after I had to start whacking it on one side to get the tube to work.







They still have that TV, and it still works after you whack it a few times.

I didn't really want to watch much that my folks didn't already. The Cosby Show, Murder She Wrote, some cartoons (esp. Bugs Bunny/Road Runner), The Dukes of Hazzard, Charlie's Angels, Love Boat, Fantasy Island, and Knight Rider were all family favorites, and a whole heck of a lot tamer that much of what's on TV today.

...and FTR, my folks *still* don't have cable, and may never get it, unless/until it becomes necessary to get the signal. The area I lived in didn't get cable until I was in 8th grade or so, and then only one of my friends had it. We did watch a few movies on it that our folks might not have let us - Still Smokin', Friday the 13th, and a few others of those types, but we were 13yo and older.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nankay* 
Those who say they had unrestricted tv as kids...OK, I did too..BUT TV was a waayy different animal when I was a kid (70's) I mean it got as violent as 6 Million Dollar Man and Starsky and Hutch. The other day I turned on CSI (I think) and there was a mutilated woman corpse wrapped in packing tape who they found out freqented a sex club.
Now WHY would I want my 11 yr old to see that? That it waay different than watching Steve Austin throw someone across the room in slo-mo.

Umm Seriously that is not true if you had cable. My parents would always come home from work and watch TV in their room so we could have the living room tv. I remember sitting at the edge of the living room so I could see down the hall with a remote in my hand. (you know, the old school ones that had a cord that attached to the cable box and you had to drag the cord across the room.) I would sit there and watch Porky's, Nighmare on Elm Street and all kinds of "other" shows I was not supposed to watch when was around 12/13. If I saw someone coming down the hall I would change the channel.

Maybe primetime TV was less violent, but not tv in general.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nankay* 
Those who say they had unrestricted tv as kids...OK, I did too..BUT TV was a waayy different animal when I was a kid (70's) I mean it got as violent as 6 Million Dollar Man and Starsky and Hutch. The other day I turned on CSI (I think) and there was a mutilated woman corpse wrapped in packing tape who they found out freqented a sex club.
Now WHY would I want my 11 yr old to see that? That it waay different than watching Steve Austin throw someone across the room in slo-mo.

It's not really about me _wanting_ an 11 year old to watch it. It's more about me respectfully and mindfully being involved when an 11 year old _does want to_ watch it.









TV is different I will give you that. So is music, clothing, and special effects in film. It changes and evolves. We make a more realistic "dead body" these days no doubt lol. I'd be discussing those exact things with a kid and more.


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## LilyGrace (Jun 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nankay* 
Those who say they had unrestricted tv as kids...OK, I did too..BUT TV was a waayy different animal when I was a kid (70's) I mean it got as violent as 6 Million Dollar Man and Starsky and Hutch. The other day I turned on CSI (I think) and there was a mutilated woman corpse wrapped in packing tape who they found out freqented a sex club.
Now WHY would I want my 11 yr old to see that? That it waay different than watching Steve Austin throw someone across the room in slo-mo.


We had _You Can't Do That On Television!_ when I was a kid. Much worse than the Simpsons, imo. And that was a kids' show. In one episode they talk about hangovers, pass out nooses to the kids, have a firing squad, a drunk for a father, ideas on how to use the school for free babysitting and much more.
As for adult dramas, seeing the last episode of M*A*S*H and the twist at the end was pretty nasty.

TV is different, but so are our standards, I think.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
I would sit there and watch Porky's, Nighmare on Elm Street and all kinds of "other" shows I was not supposed to watch when was around 12/13. If I saw someone coming down the hall I would change the channel.


Ha! I remember doing some of that too, especially with my cousins. We thought "Porky's" was a dirty movie.







I must have been 11 or so.

I agree there's always been violence on TV. We just have new filming and technology techniques that allow us to make it look more realistic (thinking back to things like CSI, and etc.) Although sometimes I think the corpses on CSI look silly too. But My Dh watches old westerns and such and there is an awful lot of violence in those. And they were made back in the day.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa* 

Ha! I remember doing some of that too, especially with my cousins. We thought "Porky's" was a dirty movie.







I must have been 11 or so.

I agree there's always been violence on TV. We just have new filming and technology techniques that allow us to make it look more realistic (thinking back to things like CSI, and etc.) *Although sometimes I think the corpses on CSI look silly too*. But My Dh watches old westerns and such and there is an awful lot of violence in those. And they were made back in the day.

Especially when you can see them breath.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LilyGrace* 
We had _You Can't Do That On Television!_ when I was a kid. Much worse than the Simpsons, imo. And that was a kids' show. In one episode they talk about hangovers, pass out nooses to the kids, have a firing squad, a drunk for a father, ideas on how to use the school for free babysitting and much more.
As for adult dramas, seeing the last episode of M*A*S*H and the twist at the end was pretty nasty.

TV is different, but so are our standards, I think.

Was that that show where they were always under some kind of play structure and someone always got slimed? They were always doing skits and stuff?


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Yep the sliming was on You Can't Do that... They still do the "sliming" thing on Nickolodian today actually. (My Dd saw them slime Justin Timberlake at the Teen Choice Awards last year







) Alanis Morrisette was actually on "You Can't Do That" all those years ago before her singing career.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

What was the nasty twist at the end of MASH? I never saw that...

And did Ross and Rachel ever get back together?

For little kids I do a cost to benefit thang in my head. I wouldn't say to my 8 yr old, "Well, if you really want to watch CSI, go ahead". I would probably say "I don't think you will benefit from having those images in your head. If I thought it would contribute to your growth or entertainment, I'd have no problem with it, but as it stands, I think it would offer you nothing but nightmares". She trusts me, and I know she wouldn't ask further. I think she trusts my judgement because she knows I trust hers.

Of course, this is why I am not an unschooler, although I do have massive unschooling tendancies, but this is a place I cannot comfortably go. I just don't see how something like horror or porn is helpful to a child, even if they ask for it. I figure, my dd will at least be able to identify her baggage when she is on the analysts couch. "I have some unresolved issues around my parents. They told me that CSI would not be helpful to my emotional growth when I was 8. They asked me to revisit the question in a couple of years? Then they can talk about it at $200/hr. Everyone needs some ghosts.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom* 
What was the nasty twist at the end of MASH? I never saw that...

And did Ross and Rachel ever get back together?

Ross and Rachel did indeed hook back up, permanently we were left to believe. I was so stoked. That series ending with them split up would have sucked.









I think the M.A.S.H thing was that there was a scene where Hawkeye was telling a mom to quiet her crying baby because they were hiding from the enemy.

(Warning...some people find it really disturbing....)

She put her hand over the baby's face or mouth to hush it and it suffocated and died.







Hawk was horrified, etc.

Quote:

For little kids I do a cost to benefit thang in my head. I wouldn't say to my 8 yr old, "Well, if you really want to watch CSI, go ahead". I would probably say "I don't think you will benefit from having those images in your head. If I thought it would contribute to your growth or entertainment, I'd have no problem with it, but as it stands, I think it would offer you nothing but nightmares". She trusts me, and I know she wouldn't ask further. I think she trusts my judgement because she knows I trust hers.

Even if I wouldn't do it exactly the same way. I can see myself saying something similiar. _"I am worried that the images you will see on the show will overwhelm or frighten you. Sometimes it's hard to get that kind of thing out of your head. Do you know what they show on CSI...what it's about? Can we talk about that before you watch it?"_

I am not saying _"no"_ but _"here's what I am thinking. What do you think?".
_


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## lab (Jun 11, 2003)

I wanted to chime in that I believe the mothers on this board take education seriously.

We read the latest studies on spanking, circumcision, breastfeeding etc.....

We know that spanking is not helpful and that breastfeeding is best.

Why oh why do we disagree on violent TV, movies and video games. Studies show that violent tv, movies and video games are not good for kids. Children are simply not able to process the images and adult situations. You can explain to kids all day long what rape is, but until they are mature enough to really get their head around it - they can't understand the violence of the act.

Kathymuggle - hold on tight!

You mentioned that you are loosening your rules. I think that is a good thing. Your ds is getting older and able to process more. Give him a later bedtime and do let him have a less restrictive viewing schedule. But for pete's sake, if you determine that CSI and Criminal Minds is inappropriate, then it is!

My ds is 13 now. I have struggled right along. He started watching Lost last year and really appreciated the decision.


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## lab (Jun 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls* 
I have the parental controls on my tv BECAUSE my children have proven to me they cannot be trusted









My older kids are 13 and almost 17 and they will put on House(which I love) or CSI among other things when the little ones who are in the room.

My 4 year old is scared of the Harry Potter ads for goodness sake..she is so sensitive.

They have their own televisions and can watch pretty much whatever they want at the age they are at now as long as it doesn`t become all they do.

I kind of just play it by ear with the kids. They are all different, some more sensitive than others. My oldest LOVES scary movies, my 13 year old won`t watch them.

The little ones watch dvds and treehouse mainly.

BTW...my experience is that when my older kids were pre teen they were very mature and we did discuss tv and what I thought they should or shouldn`t watch and they pretty much made wise decisions. When they hit their teens, that changed, particularly with my oldest.

and I am totally against censorship...but I think I have the right to choose for myself and my family until my family are mature enough to decide for themselves. It`s not like the movie goes away. My 13 year wanted to see 8 Mile when seh was younger and I said no. She recently watched it and was ready for it I believe. I asked her, should you have watched that when you were 8 or 9, do you think it`s ok for `V` (my neice) to watch and she agreed it was too much for her.

anyway..I have to run but I am enjoying this discussion.

I love your post!

This is where I'm coming from. My 13 year old ds is very mature and logical. Logical being the key. He gets that the corpse is makeup. Of course he certainly didn't see corpses at 8 years old. My 10 year old ds is so sensitive. I absolutely will continue to keep him from any sort of violent or scary movie/TV _as long as I can._ He has nightmares from reading! I can't imagine what his life would be like if he could view some of the things on TV.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa* 
Ross and Rachel did indeed hook back up, permanently we were left to believe. I was so stoked. That series ending with them split up would have sucked.









I think the M.A.S.H thing was that there was a scene where Hawkeye was telling a mom to quiet her crying baby because they were hiding from the enemy.

Even if I wouldn't do it exactly the same way. I can see myself saying something similiar. _"I am worried that the images you will see on the show will overwhelm or frighten you. Sometimes it's hard to get that kind of thing out of your head. Do you know what they show on CSI...what it's about? Can we talk about that before you watch it?"_

I am not saying _"no"_ but _"here's what I am thinking. What do you think?".
_


Oh, I do remember that episode-- I didn't realize that was the last episode. . I saw it in reruns a couple of years ago. That was incredibly sad

Yeah , R & R! I love Ross. Meh for Rachel, but if he loves her, I want him to be happy. lol I hope she doesn't up and leave him one day...lol

As for the the CSI answer. I guess I know I wouldn't say yes at all, so I wouldn't leave the option open for that age, I dont think, no matter what. But I have used that phrasing-- "I am not saying no, but here's what I am thinking, what are you thinking" etc. But not in things I don't feel are right for small children. Forgive me for pulling another traffic example again OMG!







But I am not letting a toddler cross the busy road by herself, no matter what she says, so I wouldn't ask...what they thought about it...OMG, I am going to MDC parenting hell, aren't I?


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## mirlee (Jul 30, 2002)

In our house there are rules for what our son can watch. Period. If he wants to watch something that we haven't seen before, we screen it and let him know. There is way too much out there that we feel is not appropriate. There are situations that a 7 year old or an 11 year old just should not be exposed to.

We are the parents, we make the rules. If a child is nagging us to change our minds, we am most certainly not going to make any such changes. In fact, they may see their privelges for the thing they are nagging about diminish.


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

Oh dash! I had a reply all lovely and finished then my 1yo climbed up and pressed something!

Anyhow, there used to be a programme called "Why Don't You Just Switch Off Your Television Set and Go and Do Something Less Boring Instead" it was presented by kids and was all about outdoor activities, crafts, cooking and other non-tv things. It is jokingly credited with creating a generation of 30 somethings who are more likely to be out and about than being sucked in by tv advertising.

I used to watch Moonlighting with my mum years ago. Maddie and David were the previous Ross and Rachel weren't they?

And at what age does GD stop? From a lot of these responses it seems that pre-teens and teens don't need or merit it anymore. Why is this? Are these teens who weren't GD'd or AP'd as small people or has there been a shift in parenting as the children have grown older?


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## siennasmom (Mar 14, 2006)

I was allowed to watch pretty much whatever I wanted when I was a kid, and it really messed with my head. I had a lot of anxieties that I shouldn't have had when I was little, and 90% of them came from television. There was one thing I saw on TV that it literally took me about seven years to get over. I was terrified of nuclear war and kidnapping and bad guys with guns, and that was all because of things I saw on television. I shouldn't have had to deal with any of it.

TV does have the power to hurt children. Mine won't be allowed to watch whatever they want until they're well into their teens.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lab* 
Studies show that violent tv, movies and video games are not good for kids. Children are simply not able to process the images and adult situations. You can explain to kids all day long what rape is, but until they are mature enough to really get their head around it - they can't understand the violence of the act.

 We've not seen evidence that TV, movies, and video games have been "bad" for our kids. Quite the contrary actually. We feel our lives have been enriched by those things, and we see value in them the way we see value in reading, hiking, eating something we like, swimming, etc. We do the things we like and enjoy and learn from.







We've encouraged and guided the kids on knowing their own limits and helped them navigate the media stuffs.


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## Nankay (Jan 24, 2002)

Some of you who are responding to my post must be considerab;y younger than me. LOL.. CABLE????? Shoot, I think I was in Sr. High before cable came through. Nope, in my impressionable years I think Baretta was as bad as it got and that was on Waaayyy after my bedtime. There is no way you will convince me that those certain grotesque images from tv now will do any good to a young person. There's lots of things I may enjoy, or my child for that matter. That does not mean they are good for me or that I should indulge in them.


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## LilyGrace (Jun 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *orangefoot* 

And at what age does GD stop? From a lot of these responses it seems that pre-teens and teens don't need or merit it anymore. Why is this? Are these teens who weren't GD'd or AP'd as small people or has there been a shift in parenting as the children have grown older?


I was wondering the same thing. The "I'll take more away if they don't quit X" responses have me stumped.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa* 
We've not seen evidence that TV, movies, and video games have been "bad" for our kids. Quite the contrary actually. We feel our lives have been enriched by those things, and we see value in them the way we see value in reading, hiking, eating something we like, swimming, etc. We do the things we like and enjoy and learn from.







We've encouraged and guided the kids on knowing their own limits and helped them navigate the media stuffs.


No experience with video games here (dd is uninterested in them as are dp and I), but we'e also not seen any signs of "bad" tv or media images hurting us or our kids. Having the opportunity to discuss the things we see is wonderful, IMO. Not to mention the enjoyment we get from watching as a family.


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

_"I was wondering the same thing. The "I'll take more away if they don't quit X" responses have me stumped."_ Lilygrace

But what are the alternatives? If you genuinely think something is not OK for your child, what are you supposed to do? I think it our job to protect our children from harm







: I am not saying all you mama's who allow unlimitted TV are not doing your job, like lilygrace I am stumped, but for different reasons









Yes, parent in such a way that they learn to make good choices...but sometimes, due to life inexperience and developmental stages, they are going to make poor decisions. Sometimes it is irrelevant - better to let them stumble, and sometimes it is better to save them from their poor choices - especially when they are young or the consequences are severe. Now whether 11 is too young to make TV decisions or whether the consequences of unlimmited TV are too severe, is a very valid debate, and one I have very much appreciated. There is, of course, the flip side...is the ensuing power struggle and/or acting in an authoratative manner worth it on this issue? Each family must decide for itself, I suppose.

Moreover, I think children thrive under boundaries and knowing what they should and should not do. Yes, the boundaries expand outwards as they get older, but they are not completely gone until well into the teen years.

Kathy


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## lab (Jun 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa* 
We've not seen evidence that TV, movies, and video games have been "bad" for our kids. Quite the contrary actually. We feel our lives have been enriched by those things, and we see value in them the way we see value in reading, hiking, eating something we like, swimming, etc. We do the things we like and enjoy and learn from.







We've encouraged and guided the kids on knowing their own limits and helped them navigate the media stuffs.

While that may not be the case in your family, statisically, children who play violent games and watch violence on TV are more likely to become violent. They are more likely to quit school and more likely to be arrested.

I do not understand why, on this board, that mothers advocate allowing their children to watch violence. I totally get that it works for _your_ family. I understand that you have many times posted that it works for _your_ family and may not work for others.

But in the end, breast is best and violence is bad......


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## LilyGrace (Jun 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kathymuggle* 
_"I was wondering the same thing. The "I'll take more away if they don't quit X" responses have me stumped."_ Lilygrace

But what are the alternatives? If you genuinely think something is not OK for your child, what are you supposed to do? I think it our job to protect our children from harm







: I am not saying all you mama's who allow unlimitted TV are not doing your job, like lilygrace I am stumped, but for different reasons









Yes, parent in such a way that they learn to make good choices...but sometimes, due to life inexperience and developmental stages, they are going to make poor decisions. Sometimes it is irrelevant - better to let them stumble, and sometimes it is better to save them from their poor choices - especially when they are young or the consequences are severe. Now whether 11 is too young to make TV decisions or whether the consequences of unlimmited TV are too severe, is a very valid debate, and one I have very much appreciated. There is, of course, the flip side...is the ensuing power struggle and/or acting in an authoratative manner worth it on this issue? Each family must decide for itself, I suppose.

Moreover, I think children thrive under boundaries and knowing what they should and should not do. Yes, the boundaries expand outwards as they get older, but they are not completely gone until well into the teen years.

Kathy

I'm not saying don't be authoritative, I'm saying I don't get the punitive discipline applied here. I know my oldest is only 8, but I don't feel that taking away _more_ would do anything other than set up a power struggle. I'd much rather be completely honest with my kid and set up boundaries that are respectful to everyone in the family. I'd rather say _"Hey, look. I know we disagree. I've watched the shows and here is why I don't think they are a good fit for us right now. I really don't feel like they are adding to the values in our family, and are too graphic for a 11/12/13yo.
In 3 months, we can talk again about the shows. Perhaps there's something like it but not as gory on another channel. Have you seen Cold Case Files?"_

The whining simply would not make a difference to me. It didn't at 4, 6, or 7yo, so it's not going to change now. Only the strategy slightly changes. In addition to repeating my main point ad nauseum ("The discussion is closed. We can talk again in 3 months"), for an older teen, there may be the addition of "convince me". Not only does it teach them what a good argument is, it teaches them to reason through their problems. I use it already for less volatile issues - ones that won't matter 6 months from now.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lab* 
While that may not be the case in your family, statisically, children who play violent games and watch violence on TV are more likely to become violent. They are more likely to quit school and more likely to be arrested.

I do not understand why, on this board, that mothers advocate allowing their children to watch violence. I totally get that it works for _your_ family. I understand that you have many times posted that it works for _your_ family and may not work for others.

But in the end, breast is best and violence is bad......

Right and I'd never say that everyone must do it my way. Here's the thing though- if it works for my family it _can_ work for _other_ families too. And it does! There are others here on the board who operate in much the same way. (Dar specifically comes to mind, but I know there are more.) So it can be done. With that in mind the stats really don't matter much to me, ya know?


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:

I'm not saying don't be authoritative, I'm saying I don't get the punitive discipline applied here. I know my oldest is only 8, but I don't feel that taking away more would do anything other than set up a power struggle.

The punitive stuff just doesn't work for me either. I do not see it as a respectful, useful tool. It just feels like creates more divisions and stress between fam members.


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

Thanks Lilygrace...I think I understand a bit better now your earlier post.

My Op about going down to Basic was really more about removing temptation, rather than being punitve. I have not done it, partly out of fear of Ds _viewing_ it as punitive (and punitve for what? Wanting to watvch stuff I do not want him to watch? I am not always anit-punitive, but in this case it seemed a bit extreme), and I found another solution which I think is better.

Sometimes when I laspe into "punitive" mode, it is really because I am at my wits end....and what I really need is some "me time" so I can recharge and have the strength/patience to stay the course. I so need to remind myself of this occasionally.

kathy


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## aran (Feb 9, 2005)

Coming in late, but I have a comment from my own personal experience...

Once a person sees something, it can never be "un-seen." Sexual and violent content I have seen in media from childhood on through now can pop into my head at any time during my life. It affects how I interpret the world. I wish I didn't know some things I know. I wish some of the disturbing make-believe images from some other person's mind were not now part of my mind. And if you ask anyone I know, they will say I am "fine" or I "turned out fine." (At least I think they will...







) I support placing limits on media that are filled with needlessly disturbing images. Just because media content exists and is available (e.g., CSI) doesn't mean it's good for you to partake. It's not like letting your kid binge on Twinkies and Doritoes to let them learn that those foods make you feel like crud. That kind of stuff burns out of your system and is gone after a few days and a few healthy meals. However, media content burns _into_ your system and is always there after you've seen it. It's irreversible. I don't care how much you "talk it through" and rationalize it with your child... the content has created a brain image that wasn't there before, and it can and probably will pop up in your child's brain at times and in ways you can't fathom.

As long as I have the ability to do so, I will not help my children needlessly add negative images to their collective thoughts. I know it's not a good idea from my own experience.


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## pjlioness (Nov 29, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *orangefoot*
And at what age does GD stop? From a lot of these responses it seems that pre-teens and teens don't need or merit it anymore.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa* 

The punitive stuff just doesn't work for me either. I do not see it as a respectful, useful tool. It just feels like creates more divisions and stress between fam members.











:

I really try hard to empathize and talk things out with my ds's. I don't want to over explain, but I do want my boys to know where I am coming from. The "If you're going to complain, then I will take away MORE" threat just doesn't allow for the parties to connect with each other and care about the others wishes/feelings.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Absolutely. Telling a little one their parent is concerned about money-grubbing media putting raw and violent images in their head -- images that can never be removed-- is horribly abusive to the child. Only a child knows what degree of violence, or how may rapes or theatrically dead bodies etc it will take to affect him negatively.

I don't even know why some bother to engage in these discussions. ( I know I have plenty of loose brain screws-- what's your excuse? lol). At any rate, that's my reason for bothering to discuss why I would rather not subject my little children to rape & dismemberment despite 'All the kids at the park are talking about this guy who got his head chopped off on YouTube! Can I watch it too, Daddy? Can I, huh? Pleeeease?!" .

With lots of parental discussion about rape and more, a little one can deal with it all just fine, and the more they see and hear of it, the less their sleep will be disturbed. It's really just a matter of desensitizing them to the horror at as young an age as possible. Kids know rape on TV is not the same as rape in real life. The kid on CSI who was raped and buried alive is just an actor! ! It's so cool how they make fake blood!


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *siennasmom* 
I was allowed to watch pretty much whatever I wanted when I was a kid, and it really messed with my head. I had a lot of anxieties that I shouldn't have had when I was little, and 90% of them came from television. There was one thing I saw on TV that it literally took me about seven years to get over. I was terrified of nuclear war and kidnapping and bad guys with guns, and that was all because of things I saw on television. I shouldn't have had to deal with any of it.

TV does have the power to hurt children. Mine won't be allowed to watch whatever they want until they're well into their teens.









: I'm not sure about the "well into their teens" part, but I recall watching 3 things specifically that *really* upset me for years and years.

Not to get OT, but my friend's young teen watched a Beheading on Youtube (I forget who it was, I think the contractor guy in Iraq....I personally wouldn't watch). Anyway, it has FREAKED HIM OUT, poor kid.

And seriously, not to hijack the thread (I should do a spinoff post), but how do you handle it when a child has seen something - whether on TV or the internet - that haunts and horrifies them?


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## Meg Murry. (Sep 3, 2006)

To be honest, I would cancel the cable and get rid of the television. It's clearly a problem and source of contention, few people are able to self-monitor at that age, and there's no question that it interferes with homework and studying. I can't really see the appeal. Plus, think of the money you would save.

Bottom line, there is not much reason to watch television, IMHO, especially not when it's inappropriate or violent. It separates people from each other; it prevents families from talking to teach other in a sustained way...I could go on and on.

Honestly, it's YOUR house. I think the pp was absolutely on the money when she said "breast is still best and violence is still bad."


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karina5* 







: I'm not sure about the "well into their teens" part, but I recall watching 3 things specifically that *really* upset me for years and years.

Not to get OT, but my friend's young teen watched a Beheading on Youtube (I forget who it was, I think the contractor guy in Iraq....I personally wouldn't watch). Anyway, it has FREAKED HIM OUT, poor kid.

And seriously, not to hijack the thread (I should do a spinoff post), but how do you handle it when a child has seen something - whether on TV or the internet - that haunts and horrifies them?

You talk about it. Talk makes everything better. You do not want keep your child from expereincing those things which matter to her. Putting your fear agenda on your child is going to have negative consequences-- your child will think you do not trust them to know what they need. Just because watching a fake rape or real beheading on TV is upsetting to you does not mean it's going to be upsetting to your child. Parental concern s one thing.. share that concern, but it's not up to you to tell your child what is right for her...only she knows what that is.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Meg Murry.* 
and there's no question that it interferes with homework and studying.

Actually I would question that. My kids did attend school for a time (Ds the longest) and TV was never a problem when it came to homework. It's not for my friend's kids either who are ages 10 and almost 12.

Quote:

Bottom line, there is not much reason to watch television, IMHO, especially not when it's inappropriate or violent. It separates people from each other; it prevents families from talking to teach other in a sustained way...I could go on and on.
 I think there are plenty of reasons to watch TV not the least of which is that people enjoy it. So much to learn, new things to hear about and see, and many conversations to be had. Rather than separating us from each other I think in many situations it has connected us.


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Meg Murry.* 
Bottom line, there is not much reason to watch television, IMHO, especially not when it's inappropriate or violent. It separates people from each other; it prevents families from talking to teach other in a sustained way...I could go on and on.

You say that you can't see the appeal; are you tv free? We have been tv free for months at a time at various stages of our family life, sometimes because we had not tv but others because we decided to have a tv free week just for a change. We havve the radio on more often than the tv and our kitchen radio is permanently tuned to BBC Radio 4.

We share a lot of what we watch on tv and have had many, many fun times watching programmes together, in fact, we specifically seek out comedy and humour on tv because real-life news is pretty depressing at the best of times. We do watch news and informative programming too though and it often stimulates debate which can only be good. The radio is also a source of new ideas and perspectives and waht you hear can also sometimes be disturbing.

UUMom is right when she says that talking is the key; none of us is advocating shutting a teen in their room and forcing them to watch back to back CSI cut with war movies 24/7 and never talk to their family or eat or get outdoors every now and then. The tv is a window on the world and talking about what we see in the world is what humans do.

If you don't like what you see in the world then I can see that tv would be disturbing but I would suggest that it is perhaps over-cautious to throw the baby out with the bathwater.


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom* 
Just because watching a fake rape or real beheading on TV is upsetting to you does not mean it's going to be upsetting to your child. Parental concern s one thing.. share that concern, but it's not up to you to tell your child what is right for her...only she knows what that is.











I couldn't disagree with you more. I think watching a REAL beheading would be upsetting to almost anyone, and I know that it would be right for me to try to protect my child from this.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karina5* 
I think watching a REAL beheading would be upsetting to almost anyone, and I know that it would be right for me to try to protect my child from this.


I agree with you.


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom* 
I agree with you.


Huh?







I thought you said that they might not be upset by that and should therefore decide for themselves....???? (I'm summarizing, and realize those weren't your exact words).


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karina5* 
Huh?







I thought you said that they might not be upset by that and should therefore decide for themselves....???? (I'm summarizing, and realize those weren't your exact words).

I was being a little snarky about this last night. I put that little







after my post.

I am a parent who does not punish and I am very open with my kids about everything. We make decisions together...but sometimes I have said "Not healthy for you, cutie pie" to my small children. I call that excersing my right to be my authentic parental self. I would never negotiate over whether a 5 or 6 yr old could watch a beheading on YouTube. Once the images are there, they can never be un-there.

No amount of talking to a child about murder is going to make the image of blood spurting all over the place go away. They will be a part of her childhood-- and for some children this won't offer benefits.







For some people what children witness in media doesn't matter...it's part of life. For me, it matters whether my small child grows up feeling somewhat safe in the world we live in. I don't see the point of panic and worry before you can tie your own shoes. I thank the heavens I don't live in a tent in Darfur and don't have to witness my children being gassed by Nazis.

So, ok, I am not good at snark and sarcasm sometimes. I don't feel comfortable with some things, and I won't say I am just because it's currently fashionable to not 'shelter' children from media. When I think of all the ridiculous parenting advice given in the past-- from Watson to SKinner etc etc., I have to roll my eyes. We won't know whether this current trend to raise children as though they had the judgement of fully grown adults is going to create emotionally healthy adults.

I have to continue to rely on *my* best judgement as a thoughtful parent. That means sometimes I am simply honest and say "No cutie pie, that's not something I think is healthy and will help you grow".

My kids will be able to identify their baggage "My mother said no sometimes", which will cut down the number of hours of therapy they will have to pay for.


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