# Would this bother you?



## aba (Feb 13, 2007)

So I'm in a store last night and there's this 3 mo baby there in a car seat perched on the shopping cart with a (young) mom and apparently her mother. So after a while the baby starts crying. It was a tired cry, but a cry. I looked over the mom is pushing the cart back and forth and sshhing him and saying, "I know you're tired...close your eyes....go to sleep....". He keeps crying. As a mother, my pulse is starting to go up because this baby obviously needs comfort! And he's not getting it. He keeps crying. So, I get my composure and slowly make my way over to the isle where she is and I say very nicely, "You know, when my DD was that age, sometimes she just needed to be held." She said, "Well, it's his bedtime, that's why he's crying." I just nodded and thought I had tried my best.

Then, her mother was getting ready to leave and the girl picked up her crying baby in the car seat and headed for the door and when her mother said she was on her way, the girl said, "Take your time!" That even got me more.

Where is the mother instinct for some people? I mean, she really seemed to have NO desire to hold her baby at all. It really bothered me...


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

That's probably the style of parenting she's being taught and sees all around her. Many people have those instincts and aren't following them. Maybe her mom has her worried about "spoiling" the baby and she doesn't know that holding the baby really can make things easier.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

It would have bothered me, before I had a child that had a pretty low fuss threshhold and I understood what it was like to just be done and need my own space.

The mother was present. She was talking to her baby, and responding (though not in the way you wanted). For all you know, she could have been touched out, stressed from caring from the older woman there (maybe it's her witchy mother in law). Maybe it wasn't her idea to go shopping, but she made the best of it. Maybe she was tired, and the thought of juggling holding baby in one arm (especially a wiggly crying baby) and the carrier in the other was just something she couldn't do.

So no, now that I have been in a place where I was just done, where I was doing the best I could even if it didn't look 'right' to strangers, it wouldn't bother me. It's one thing if she was ignoring the kid or walking away. She wasn't. She was right there the whole time (unless the story's going to change).

Sometimes, for your own peace of mind and in the name of compassion for others, you should give people the benefit of the doubt.


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

OK, sorry, but MYOB. My kid falls asleep when we are out by crying off and on for a couple minutes. If I pick her up or mess with her she becomes hysterical. She wants me to leave her alone and rock the stroller so she can fall asleep. Then she wakes up later and is happy. If I interact with her I think she feels obligated to stay awake or something, so she becomes very upset.

She wasn't ignoring the child, either. I say the exact same things when my 8 month old is fighting sleep. It's ok, you can sleep now...I know you're tired, you can sleep.

I'm really tired of posts like this. There's more than one way to love and care for a baby, you know.

Edited to add: my maternal instinct is fine, thanks, it has even saved her life. And I love my daughter more than anything. I am REALLY sick of this kind of narrow view of what AP and motherhood is.


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## PrettyBird (Jun 19, 2005)

What BelgianSheepDog Said.

She was probably doing what she knew comforted her baby. Maybe her baby can't get to sleep with too much stimulation? Your interruption was most likely NOT helpful at all.


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## aba (Feb 13, 2007)

:







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Oh my, let me apologize for posting this -- I thought this was an AP board. SORRY!!!!!!!! Didn't mean to offend.


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## witchbaby (Apr 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BelgianSheepDog* 
OK, sorry, but MYOB. My kid falls asleep when we are out by crying off and on for a couple minutes. If I pick her up or mess with her she becomes hysterical. She wants me to leave her alone and rock the stroller so she can fall asleep. Then she wakes up later and is happy. If I interact with her I think she feels obligated to stay awake or something, so she becomes very upset.

She wasn't ignoring the child, either. I say the exact same things when my 8 month old is fighting sleep. It's ok, you can sleep now...I know you're tired, you can sleep.

I'm really tired of posts like this. There's more than one way to love and care for a baby, you know.

Edited to add: my maternal instinct is fine, thanks, it has even saved her life. And I love my daughter more than anything. I am REALLY sick of this kind of narrow view of what AP and motherhood is.

just what i was thinking. i've gotten rather tired of seeing a different version of the same "bad mother" post every time i log in.


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aba* 







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Oh my, let me apologize for posting this -- I thought this was an AP board. SORRY!!!!!!!! Didn't mean to offend.































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No worries, mate!


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## onlyzombiecat (Aug 15, 2004)

I'm sorry it bothered you.

I don't think the mom was non-AP in her actions. She was responding to her child.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aba* 
So after a while the baby starts crying. It was a tired cry, but a cry. I looked over the mom is pushing the cart back and forth and sshhing him and saying, "I know you're tired...close your eyes....go to sleep....". He keeps crying. As a mother, my pulse is starting to go up because this baby obviously needs comfort! And he's not getting it. He keeps crying.

May I just ask what this part means? If that had been me with dd when she was little, and I'd been carrying her and she'd kept crying, would that have meant that she wasn't getting the comfort that she needed? Would you have just assumed that she needed to be nursed? I only ask because dd would cry for 3-4 hours straight every single night, with a few shorter bouts during the day. Rocking her didn't help. Walking her didn't help. Nursing her didn't help. Singing to her didn't help. In fact - absolutely nothing helped.

This has nothing to do with whether or not this is an AP board. This has to do with people making the mistake of assuming they know what the situation is with someone else's child, when they don't. For all you know, that mom told the other woman to take her time because she was going out to the car to nurse the baby to sleep. She certainly wasn't ignoring her baby.


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

I understand, how when someone else's 'bad day' or bad shopping trip, or whatever spills out into your environment, and it includes a crying baby, it can raise your blood pressure. And how, as a mom, and maybe an empathetic one, you felt the urge to offer some advice or words of wisdom... totally.

How do you think she received your words? How would u have received the same kind of advice from a stranger in a grocery store?

I grinds me when well-meaning strangers make assumptions about me or my parenting when they witness my 'bad day' or bad minute, and then prescribe to me what they think might cure the ailment...

We're all moms, and most of us have experienced this to some degree... just try to remember what it felt like to _you_ maybe, and if u still feel compelled to make an offering, try posing it in the form of an open-ended (non "yes/no") question: 1) you'll get a better understanding of the situation you are making yourself a part of 2) you'll be inviting the person to share with you, rather than insinuating yourself and your opinion on that person and 3) people mind questions a little less than they mind statements...

ex: "What's got your little one so upset?"

Ahat do you think might have happened if you had asked that, instead of just inputting 2 cents?


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aba* 







:







:

Oh my, let me apologize for posting this -- I thought this was an AP board. SORRY!!!!!!!! Didn't mean to offend.









Hmmm, I don't think you offended in the original posting. You invited people to comment whether or not the scenario you gave would bother them, and they did.

However, I dunno. Some of us might take offense at the notion that to be AP you must snark and assume the worst of every parent who doesn't do things just as we might do right when we might do them. Or that on an AP board one should expect everyone to leap on the bandwagon to bash someone in this scenario! I often forget that for some folks compassion stops once the person who might receive it hits 18. :/

As someone who is much less mainstream than most of her friends, I have had enough backhanded commentary and unsolicited advice and people feeling sorry for my kids, it makes me loathe to inflict that on someone else, especially someone who's being attentive to their child. I wouldn't want people to decide I was a crappy mother with no parental instinct based on a bad day I was having.

I hope you're a little more gentle with yourself, when you eventually have a bad day and realize that probably a stranger who saw a snippet is telling her friends 'OMG this lady I saw in the store was just standing there hugging her kid as s/he was screaming bloody murder and having a tantrum! What an abusive, irresponsible mom, she's going raise a spoiled brat! I feel sorry for that kid, they'll have no social skills.' Because believe me, practise AP long enough, and you'll have moments where people are going to think that, if not say it right to your face. I'm going to be shocked if it hasn't already happened. Easy to forget though, when the shoe's on the other foot, eh?

Just...be a little more compassionate. There's no need to make the leap from what you've describe to the mother in question having 'no maternal instincts'. :/ We already put up with a TON of crap and pressure against our type of parenting. For pete's sake, let's be the first to just cut someone a break for being human.

Why is that so unexpected on an AP board?

I'm HAPPY that a lot of mamas on this board were saying 'hey, cut the mama some slack'. It makes me sad that this is seen as a strike against the AP-ness of this board. :/


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aba* 







:







:

Oh my, let me apologize for posting this -- I thought this was an AP board. SORRY!!!!!!!! Didn't mean to offend.









I'm wondering where you got the idea being an AP parent meant slamming other mothers.


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

Maybe it's the flipside of GD?







:


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## Decca (Mar 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *witchbaby* 
just what i was thinking. i've gotten rather tired of seeing a different version of the same "bad mother" post every time i log in.


Me three. Just like the thread on the crying baby in the store before this, and I'm sure there were countless others before I started reading here, I hate the "oh, let's bash other mothers" tendency. You have no way of knowing what is going on with that woman or what her baby's temperament is.


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## jlpumkin (Oct 25, 2005)

I love the turn this thread has taken... a lot less judgement is great. OP I'm sorry it maybe didn't turn out as planned but I think a supportive board of women is much more "mothering"... I also like the open ended suggestions provided. I've been that bad day mom & sometimes I don't need someone's help. But someone's gentle distraction can be a refresher.


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## ~gilli~ (Jun 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BelgianSheepDog* 
OK, sorry, but MYOB. My kid falls asleep when we are out by crying off and on for a couple minutes. If I pick her up or mess with her she becomes hysterical. She wants me to leave her alone and rock the stroller so she can fall asleep. Then she wakes up later and is happy. If I interact with her I think she feels obligated to stay awake or something, so she becomes very upset.

She wasn't ignoring the child, either. I say the exact same things when my 8 month old is fighting sleep. It's ok, you can sleep now...I know you're tired, you can sleep.

I'm really tired of posts like this. There's more than one way to love and care for a baby, you know.

Edited to add: my maternal instinct is fine, thanks, it has even saved her life. And I love my daughter more than anything. *I am REALLY sick of this kind of narrow view of what AP and motherhood is*.

Bold is mine but....AMEN SISTER!!!!!


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## alicia622 (May 8, 2005)

It probably would have bothered me a bit but I wouldn't say anything. I admit I can be pretty judgemental of others.


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## Cassiopeia (Sep 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tigerchild* 
Some of us might take offense at the notion that to be AP you must snark and assume the worst of every parent who doesn't do things just as we might do right when we might do them. Or that on an AP board one should expect everyone to leap on the bandwagon to bash someone in this scenario! I often forget that for some folks compassion stops once the person who might receive it hits 18. :/

YEAH THAT!


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## Amris (Feb 27, 2006)

The other day, I posted about how upset I am because my dd won't go to sleep snuggled with me in any way, shape, or form. She HAS to be laid down and she HAS to be allowed to fuss. If I pick her up or do anything in an attempt to comfort her, she escalates into wholescale, full out hystrionics.

I hate it. Really really hate it. It goes against everything in me to let her lie there and fuss and cry.

I was fortunate in that, the people who responded to my thread stated, "Remember, AP parenting is about being responsive to YOUR child's needs- even if they're not what might be expected."

If I were that mom, and it was a few weeks ago during that distaught time for me when I was adjusting to the facts about what my daughter needs and wants (which is directly opposite of what I, as a mother, want her to want







), I would have burst out crying myself and probably left the store and gone home, crying the whole way in concert with my frustrated baby- until she happily fell asleep because she wasn't being bothered anymore.

Then one of us would have still been crying, while the other of us was perfectly content.


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## Rivka5 (Jul 13, 2005)

I wonder if that mom was thinking, "He's really sleepy. If I rock him back and forth in the cart, he might go to sleep, and then I can transfer him right to the car without waking him up. If I pick him up and he falls asleep in my arms, I'll have to wake him up to get him strapped in for the ride home - and he'll scream bloody murder."

She's the one who knows her kid. By 3 months, she probably has a fairly good idea of what his cries mean - whether he's upset and about to lose it, or fussing his way to sleep.


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## SuperMama (Jan 22, 2007)

Yep, I know its already been said, but I'll just chime in to say, "me, too!" My little boy will cry/fuss himself to sleep in 5 minutes, but if I pick him up it takes 30. Still, I sometimes give him the 30 minutes in my arms, cuz I don't want to hear him cry, but I'm sure it does him no harm, its just his way of settling....


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## Mama Poot (Jun 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aba* 
So I'm in a store last night and there's this 3 mo baby there in a car seat perched on the shopping cart with a (young) mom and apparently her mother. (

I think its totally unnecessary for you to mention she is a _young_ mom. This is getting SO old on this board. I am a young mother myself and a damned good one if I might say so myself. Not everyone who is young is a total idiot. Remove the word YOUNG from your post, please. It has no significance in this story.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amris* 
The other day, I posted about how upset I am because my dd won't go to sleep snuggled with me in any way, shape, or form. She HAS to be laid down and she HAS to be allowed to fuss. If I pick her up or do anything in an attempt to comfort her, she escalates into wholescale, full out hystrionics.

I hate it. Really really hate it. It goes against everything in me to let her lie there and fuss and cry.

I was fortunate in that, the people who responded to my thread stated, "Remember, AP parenting is about being responsive to YOUR child's needs- even if they're not what might be expected."

If I were that mom, and it was a few weeks ago during that distaught time for me when I was adjusting to the facts about what my daughter needs and wants (which is directly opposite of what I, as a mother, want her to want







)...

That was dd. Isn't it awful? I have to admit that it was dh who figured out that she _needed_ to be left alone for a couple of minutes to fall asleep. I was too wrapped up in being the oh-so-nurturing mom (it worked _great_ with ds1) to see that it was making things worse for her, not better.








mama - it's so hard when your baby needs something that goes completely against what you want to give them...


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jlpumkin* 
I think a supportive board of women is much more "mothering"... I also like the open ended suggestions provided. I've been that bad day mom & sometimes I don't need someone's help. But someone's gentle distraction can be a refresher.











I feel bad for the OP. I believe she simply doesn't know the history of the board and how often this comes up and how it usually takes a nasty judgmental tone about the definition of a good "AP" mother. It's good that she's concerned for others' welfare and mothering/life is simply a growing and learning process. I hope she hasn't been scared away.


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

It would bother me very much. Usually when I see something like that (I see it often) I would walk by the mother a few time (while I am babywearing) hoping it would inspire her to look into slings.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sharlla* 
It would bother me very much. Usually when I see something like that (I see it often) I would walk by the mother a few time (while I am babywearing) hoping it would inspire her to look into slings.

Why? Believe it or not, there are babies who don't particularly like being worn.


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## chinaKat (Aug 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sharlla* 
It would bother me very much. Usually when I see something like that (I see it often) I would walk by the mother a few time (while I am babywearing) hoping it would inspire her to look into slings.

A sling is great, but if I was trying to get my baby to fall asleep in the store before getting into the car, I wouldn't be wishing I had her in the sling at all. Because as soon as she fell asleep I would have had to transfer her to the carseat, inevitably waking her up.

You can call the AP police on me, but the benefit of a bucket carrier that took me from store to car to house without the baby waking from a much needed nap was invaluable to me in the early days.


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

Quote:

Believe it or not, there are babies who don't particularly like being worn.
There is nothing wrong with prmoting babywearing.


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chinaKat* 
but the benefit of a bucket carrier that took me from store to car to house without the baby waking from a much needed nap was invaluable to me in the early days.

NM I reread your post. That's fine, either way I would still be bothered by it, I can't help how I feel.


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

I think it's wonderful that she was talking her baby through her discomfort. Who's to say the mom had not just had surgery or something where she was unable to pick up/hold the baby? Or maybe the baby doesn't like to be held when sleepy? I think we shouldn't be so quick to judge when there's no way for us to know all the details/circumstances.

And I agree that the use of the word "young" in parentheses was unnecessary. There are plenty of awful mothers in their 30's and 40's and wonderful mothers in their teens and 20's.


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sharlla* 
There is nothing wrong with prmoting babywearing.

I wouldn't think you were promoting babywearing. I'd probably step aside thinking "that woman with the sling is pacing behind me, she must want to grab something from the produce bin I'm in front of."


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## myhoneyswife (Apr 30, 2005)

I doubt the OP offended the mother... I had the same thing happen to me, only opposite (does that make sense?) On Saturday... I had the baby in the ergo and she was sucking on my finger to go to sleep (lightly fussing) while I shopped... an older woman thought she needed a paci and to be laid down







She had good intentions, and it was obvious, so I just smiled and said she was going to sleep. When we met again in the canned food section, my babe was out and she ood and awwed over her there







Oh, I'm 23, she likely thought I was young also.









Cara


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sharlla* 
There is nothing wrong with prmoting babywearing.

No - there's nothing wrong with promoting it. There is something wrong with assuming that the mom doesn't know about carriers and being "bothered" by a mom responding to her baby.

Someone also mentioned surgery - a distinct possibility. It was several months before I could wear ds2 after my last c-section. The incision was infected, and he was a heavy kid - just couldn't do it. Whenever I saw someone wearing a baby, I felt like absolute crap, but I couldn't do it. (I'm a babywearer from the early 90s, and I love it.)

We don't know what other people's circumstances are. The mom described in the OP wasn't ignoring her child - she wasn't standing around chatting while the baby screamed. She knew her child was tired, and was trying to soothe him. She knows her baby better than any random bystander in a grocery store. What is there in this to be bothered by?


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BelgianSheepDog* 
I wouldn't think you were promoting babywearing. I'd probably step aside thinking "that woman with the sling is pacing behind me, she must want to grab something from the produce bin I'm in front of."

Good point.


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## Amris (Feb 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
Someone also mentioned surgery - a distinct possibility. It was several months before I could wear ds2 after my last c-section. The incision was infected, and he was a heavy kid - just couldn't do it.

Amen sister. We can go around and around about caesarean, but at the end of the day, if you have one, wearing baby is TOUGH! Heck, even just carrying baby and doing diaper changes was extremely hard on me and made my back ache abominably for the first two months. She's 4 months old now, and my back is only now STARTING to stop aching every single night, all night, and all day, too.


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## shayinme (Jan 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
Why? Believe it or not, there are babies who don't particularly like being worn.

ITA w/ this. There are also Moms who cannot sling due to health issues. Like other posters I doubt I would have been bothered, seems to me she was responding to her child by acknowledging the baby and talking to him.

I am the Mom of two kids whose temperaments are like night and day, my eldest was a dream baby and at 15 yo is a great teen. My 18.5 mos old dd is high needs and well she has broken down a lot of my preconceived notions and ideas when it comes to parenting.









Is so hard to get a truly real picture of someone's parenting based off a 5 min snapshot. I know that sometimes I seem like a total Bytch to probably my kids and dh but anyone who knows me knows that is not the real me. Yet when I am tired and especially at grocery stores, I get pretty hyper because I'm overstimulated.







:

Shay


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## SuperMama (Jan 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BusyMommy* 
I feel bad for the OP. I believe she simply doesn't know the history of the board and how often this comes up and how it usually takes a nasty judgmental tone about the definition of a good "AP" mother. It's good that she's concerned for others' welfare and mothering/life is simply a growing and learning process. I hope she hasn't been scared away.









I agree. I hope she feels good that she can come here and post her feelings and then hear from other mamas that we also have babies that sometimes need to be left alone to go to sleep or that need a few minutes of crying before they settle. It is natural to respond in a feeling way when we hear anyone's baby cry, and next time it happens to us, we'll remember that often babies will cry even when their mommy is doing her very best.







:


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## Redifer (Nov 25, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *myhoneyswife* 
I doubt the OP offended the mother...

I doubt she offended her, but she probably irritated her. I've had this scenario happen to me quite a few times, as dd would always fuss in the store, no matter what I did. Holding her would cause a full-scale explosion tantrum, but talking to her for a few minutes seemed to do the trick. I've had countless people come up to me and comment about what I was doing and what I could be doing better, and I have to be honest, after about the 4th person came up to me, I wanted to knock someone's teeth out. Don't presume to know how "good" or "bad" of a parent I am by one moment in a grocery store, and PLEASE leave your unsolicited advice at the door. I've had a rough enough day already, and people making oft-judgemental-toned comments about what I'm doing (or not doing) make it worse.

It's one thing if someone were to see me beating the crap out of my kid in the store... it's another to look at a fussy babe, and a mother doing what she can to calm the baby, and immediately go on the "OMG! What abuse! She won't even pick that baby up!" rant.


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## MommytoTwo (Jun 20, 2004)

No it wouldnt bother me honestly... sometimes you have to go to the store, even when your baby is tired. She did end up picking up the baby and she probably knows by now what works for her kid.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

No it wouldn't bother me at all. it sounds like the baby was being well attended to. talked to and soothed. You never know the sleep needs of another baby. all three of mine were as different as could be. #1 would be carrying on normal as could be and drop sound aslep precicely at 10:00, 1:00 and 9:00. she would sleep for 3-5 hour stetches, in where, any environment, and where ever she happened to be. #2 just prefered to scream her entire first 2 years rather than sleep. #3 was a lay her down and kiss her good night. she would fuss for about 45 seconds and be out. but she had to be in her carseat or in her bed.

what would bother me is someone butting in and acting like I didn't have a clue what my baby needed or that she might know better. and then making the assumption that they kow better than me what my baby needs at the momoent or thinking they have any clue what is actually going on.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

On the other hand, when I worked at WIC, there were lots of parents who would keep their crying baby in the container (bucket seat, stroller) rather than pick them up. The baby generally didn't calm down until the parent inserted a bottle or pacifier. I often wanted to ask people to pick up their babies there and sometimes managed to say it.

I don't think that it's always the baby's style and the mom's way of comforting them. Lots of times, people just don't want to pick the baby up. It can be inconvenient to shop pushing the cart and holding a baby, you're tired of holding them... whatever.


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## Decca (Mar 14, 2006)

Quote:

You can call the AP police on me, but the benefit of a bucket carrier that took me from store to car to house without the baby waking from a much needed nap was invaluable to me in the early days.
Yep, absolutely. My kid didn't get the AP memo at all and hated his sling (that is, after I could use a sling after a c-section). Honestly, if anyone would have suggested a sling to me in that situation, I would have burst into tears.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
I don't think that it's always the baby's style and the mom's way of comforting them. Lots of times, people just don't want to pick the baby up. It can be inconvenient to shop pushing the cart and holding a baby, you're tired of holding them... whatever.

No - I don't think it's always one or the other. So, why assume the worst of the other mom? I can't imagine how crappy I'd have felt if someone had said something to me about picking up one of my kids when I was barely able to do anything after my last section. With a c-section rate of 30%+, the surgery scenario alone is far from unlikely. That's not even considering kids who settle better without being held and issues like that.

Also, with respect to the "inconvenience" of having to stop pushign the cart - I have, on occasion, allowed one of my kids to cry in the cart for a few minutes. This is because I knew that if I picked them up, they'd be fine until I had to put them down again to finish shopping. Whereas, if I could get them out to the car and nurse them to a nap, they'd happily slip off into sleep. It wasn't so much a matter of inconvenience as weighing the benefits to my baby.


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
I don't think that it's always the baby's style and the mom's way of comforting them. Lots of times, people just don't want to pick the baby up. It can be inconvenient to shop pushing the cart and holding a baby, you're tired of holding them... whatever.

So what? Maybe those who don't parent just like you ARE lazy, horrible slobs. We all get to live our lives to our choosing too, just like you do. I wish the parenting patrol would take a week off.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Piping in without reading all the posts







.

I was always very used to babies that had to be held or bounced to sleep. It completely blew my mind when my friend had a baby who liked to be fed, set in a bucket seat, and left alone







: . This was a little baby, not one that had become accustomed to this routine. Then, I met another baby who cried and stopped, cried and stopped, cried and stopped...then went to sleep whether or not she was being held. All I've learned since being a mother is that kids are more different than I could have ever dreamt.


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## Cassiopeia (Sep 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BelgianSheepDog* 
I wish the parenting patrol would take a week off.

That'll be the day...


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## siobhang (Oct 23, 2005)

I've been that parent in the grocery store - neither of my boys are particularly high need, though my first was more insistent than the second.

Baby starts crying in the grocery store. Tired cry, meaning he wants to fall asleep. I either don't have my sling with me or I don't want to pull him out of the carseat - because if he does fall asleep in the sling, he'll wake up when I transfer him to the carseat. If he falls asleep in the carseat, he won't wake up during the transfer to the car (lord, I was miserable after both boys grew out of the "baby bucket").

My decision to pick up the child or not all depends on where we are in the trip - early in the trip, I would be more inclined to pick him up, but if we are nearing the end of it, probably not. Bottom line, I'd do whatever was most likely to result in a sleeping baby in the car and less frazzled mama in the store.

I agree with PPs about how irritating are the assumptions that I don't know what I am doing. Mothering is the most intensive on-the-job training one can possibly imagine - I think we all need to remember that all mothers are experts in their own kids, even if they don't parent the way we would.

Random comments and assumptions can rankle - be they from family, friends or strangers. The comments that bugged me the most were actually from a couple of childless friends of mine who, because they have nieces and nephews, decided this made them childcare experts. I got a little lecture from one friend about spoiling the baby - to which I replied "you know me well, yes? What makes you think I haven't actually done a ton of research AND thinking about the way I am parenting? What makes you think I don 't have a VERY GOOD REASON for what I am doing?" That shut her up, in fact, and she apologized to me after the fact.

My rule for my behavior in public:
* only positive comments allowed
* only get involved if it looks like imminent harm will take place - but assume and act like the parent is unaware of the harm.
* when lacking direct evidence, assume the best from people - it isn't quite as embarassing if you are wrong as the opposite is.

Siobhan


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BelgianSheepDog* 
So what? Maybe those who don't parent just like you ARE lazy, horrible slobs. We all get to live our lives to our choosing too, just like you do. I wish the parenting patrol would take a week off.









: I'm sorry but that just made me spit up my smoothie. I hope you don't get edited b/c that just cracks me up.







:


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

me too...


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## tiffer23 (Nov 7, 2005)

Yes, it would have bothered me.

BUT, one thing that no one seems to think about is that she IS the baby's mom and maybe she does know what she's doing. My son was a baby that HAD to cry to calm himself. I did EVERYTHING for hours on hours to calm him, but he NEEDED to cry for about 15-30 minutes every night just to get some kind of something out. If we held him while he fussed, but allowed him to fuss, he'd calm after that 15-30 minutes. If we continued to bounce, sing, coddle, rock, feed, change, etc. he'd scream for hours on end. Eventually it got to the point that he wanted to lay down ALONE and fuss for about 10 minutes before bed. I hated it! I want to comfort him, but he didn't want that. Now, at almost 11 months he doesn't need to fuss anymore. We go through our bedtime routine (I get to cuddle with him!) and then I lay him down awake and he talks/laughs himself to sleep. He still won't let me actually rock him to sleep. He gets to a point and starts fussing and tossing because he wants to be in bed. I have no idea if this is the case with this mom and her babe or not, but maybe if she tried to take him out and calm him, it would have upset him more?


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## tiffer23 (Nov 7, 2005)

Nevermind, I guess others DID think of it. That'll teach me to post without reading first. ha ha!


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## geek_the_girl (Apr 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aba* 
So I'm in a store last night and there's this 3 mo baby there in a car seat perched on the shopping cart with a (young) mom and apparently her mother. So after a while the baby starts crying. It was a tired cry, but a cry. I looked over the mom is pushing the cart back and forth and sshhing him and saying, "I know you're tired...close your eyes....go to sleep....". He keeps crying. As a mother, my pulse is starting to go up because this baby obviously needs comfort! And he's not getting it. He keeps crying. So, I get my composure and slowly make my way over to the isle where she is and I say very nicely, "You know, when my DD was that age, sometimes she just needed to be held." She said, "Well, it's his bedtime, that's why he's crying." I just nodded and thought I had tried my best.

Then, her mother was getting ready to leave and the girl picked up her crying baby in the car seat and headed for the door and when her mother said she was on her way, the girl said, "Take your time!" That even got me more.

Where is the mother instinct for some people? I mean, she really seemed to have NO desire to hold her baby at all. It really bothered me...









Ok..This is a very broad post. You dont know all the details.
Will the mommy wars ever go away?


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

I have a bad back (herniated disks, thorasic outlet syndrome in my shoulders, etc). I also had pubic symphysis dysfunction while pregnant, and having a 9 pounder sit on my pubic bone while I was in labor for 37 hours SEVERLY screwed my alignment up. Plus, I had a 3rd degree tear. I could barely walk. I pushed a kitchen chair along in front of me as a walker just to get to the bathroom, for about, oh, 3 weeks after she was born. I was a wreck!

It wasn't until DD was about 7 weeks old that I could comfortably wear her while out and about. And to this day I STILL have problems with back issues, to which I resort to the evil stroller. I do the best I can, even if that means rocking the stroller back and forth at the check out stand while I talk to her.

Man, I hate threads like this.







:


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## Terabith (Mar 10, 2006)

I have to say, in that situation, I probably would have done the same thing as that young woman. She was pushing the cart, talking to the baby, etc. I might have been slightly reluctant to get the child out of the car seat if we were only going to have to put her back in very soon - likely waking her up. I would in those circumstances really prefer her to fall asleep in the car seat.


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## woobysma (Apr 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Terabith* 
I have to say, in that situation, I probably would have done the same thing as that young woman. She was pushing the cart, talking to the baby, etc. I might have been slightly reluctant to get the child out of the car seat if we were only going to have to put her back in very soon - likely waking her up. I would in those circumstances really prefer her to fall asleep in the car seat.

Yep, I've been there - in the checkout line, sooooo close to just getting in the car and DS would start to get that tired cranky cry - I probably wouldn't have taken him out, knowing that I'd have to get him back in it in a few minutes and that tired cry would turn into angry screams for the ride home.

OT - but I had a humbling experience at the shoe store the other night. I could hear a child (sounded like an older baby) just screaming her head off and then it would stop and then start up again.... and I caught myself getting a mental image of some baby in a bucket being ignored while her mom shopped......... then I came around a shelf and saw a mom with a toddler and a little boy (maybe 5 or 6) - the mom was nursing the girl and then having to unlatch every few minutes to help her son with the shoes - and I had to give myself a mental smack in the head.







: We all have those bad days and we usually do the very best we can given the situation.


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

No one likes to have their parenting called into question, and it's awesome to see so many moms step up in support of NOT making assumptions without all the data, and not judging one another...

On the other hand, some recognition is due to the op, as her heart was in the right place... it _does_ take a village, and ideally, more moms will think about gentler methods and bonding opportunities, etc, if we all make it our business to be good examples and compassionate (but respectful) 'sisters in motherhood' to one another - offering support and advice when it seems it might be beneficial.

Just as it wouldn't be right for the OP to stand in judgement (btw, I perceive she was more 'concerned' than 'hateful') of the 'Mom in the store with the fussy baby', _we_ (to whom she came, wondering if anyone else would be bothered by the sight of a car-seated baby crying in the store) ought to not stand in judgement of her effort to impart what she feels was some supportive wisdom to a possible mom-in-need.

We all agree about certain principles re; the care of our children, and hope that these gentle methods will become more the norm... so I hesitate to discourage a person from voicing her wisdom, even if it the effort may have been fumbled...

Maybe if she had it to do over again she would still have felt compelled to say something, but given alternative ways to approach the situation, she may have been able to come out understanding the other mom's pov and why she made the choice she made, and also still be able to offer support, and friendship, possibly inspiring another mom to learn more about AP, and/or GD, etc...

Isn't that what we would all, ultimately like? Mutual understanding, shared wisdom, community?

Or, is MDC the only place where we are to openly speak about the virtues of gentle parenting methods?


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## ipfree (Oct 4, 2006)

Such a wonderful reminder to parent the way our children need ... not the way society seems to say ... or even how we thought. To truly listen and connect and learn from our babes.







When I really really listen to my sweet ds I hear what his heart is feeling.


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## jazzharmony (Nov 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aba* 







:







:

Oh my, let me apologize for posting this -- I thought this was an AP board. SORRY!!!!!!!! Didn't mean to offend.









It *was.*

I don't think you did anything wrong. I do have a strong inner reaction to hearing the desperate cries of babies. I usually don't say anything though. I am too afraid of having my head bitten off but always want to offer help to these moms/dads. I have my own little ones with me too tho...

OP I know you weren't accusing anyone of being an evil mother. I hope you stick around.

Sheesh will people ever chill the hell out? What has happened to MDC







:


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## SquishyKitty (Jun 10, 2005)

MDC has become a place where people come to talk about what great AP parents they are, and how those horrible mainstream mothers are always neglecting thier children.

At least that's how it seems lately.


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

I think the problem with the OP is her assumption that all babies want to be held.

As several pp's have said, its simply not true. Most babies might, but it appears that there are a substantial minority of babies that don't like it. Mine hated it. I thought maybe there was something "wrong" with her but I did what she needed to have her needs met.

She was always happier in a carseat or stroller than in arms. When I nursed she would SCREAM if I touched her (I would put my hands behind my back after she latched on)

When I realized she would cry softly for 5 minutes if left alone, but would become HYSTERICAL for HOURS if I picked her up when tired, I made myself leave her alone.

It would have been sickneningly UN-AP of me to insist that I pick her up because that would have made ME feel better.

She is now a beautiful loving 13 year old (well as loving as 13 year olds are to their old mamas) and I am so happy I did what was right for her!


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## SuperMama (Jan 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maya44* 
I think the problem with the OP is her assumption that all babies want to be held.

Can everyone hear me? There is NO PROBLEM with the OP. Okay? Give her a break.... she just came here to ask a question. Y'all don't have to give her such a hard time.


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

I'm going to close this thread to new posts until a moderator has a chance to take a look. Please take a moment to look over the MDC User Agreement

Quote:

MDC serves an online community of parents, families, and parent, child and family advocates considering, learning, practicing, and advocating attachment parenting and natural family living. Our discussions concern the real world of mothering and are first and foremost, for support, information, and community. Mothering invites you to read and participate in the discussions. In doing so we ask that you agree to respect and uphold the integrity of this community. Through your direct or indirect participation here you agree to make a personal effort to maintain a comfortable and respectful atmosphere for our guests and members.
and

Quote:

Do not post to a thread to take direct issue with a member. If you feel a member has posted or behaved inappropriately in a discussion, communicate directly with the member, moderator or administrator privately and refrain from potentially defaming discussion in a thread.

Quote:

Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact us immediately by email or private message. We will make every effort to remove objectionable messages within a reasonable time frame, if we determine removal is necessary. If you feel another member is behaving in a manner that is in violation of these rules, do not take matters into your own hands. Let us try to resolve the situation. Simply alert the moderator of the forum or the Board Administrator.


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