# I am so sick of it....



## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

I am wondering if GD is even possible anymore. My home is falling apart. My marriage is falling apart! Because my kids just do whatever they want whenever they want, or else we are fighting all the time.

Bedtime = fighting
Naptime = figthing
EVERY SINGLE NIGHT...AND EVERY SINGLE DAY FOR NAP.

If I skip his nap, he is a nightmare from 4-8PM, and I _still_ have to fight with him to get him in bed.

My 5 yr old calls me names, he laughs at me when I ask him to pick something up (like the popcicle he threw across the table this morning)

WHen we go to my moms house across town, he refuses to go to the car when it is time to leave. At some point (soon!) He is going to get too big for me to carry to the car!

He just thinks he is in charge. I need to regain some kind of control here.

I have tried time In, I have tried time out. nothing is working. I would rather do absolutley nothing rather than loose my temper or spank or something.

I am at my wits end. I really need some peace in my home. And I really need my kids to respect me. And, yes, I need them to BEHAVE sometimes. Not like robots but I cant have my kid laughing at the prospect of cleaning up his own mess!

I love the idea of respecting our kids to self regulate but I cannot in reality do it anymore.

Can anyone give me some balence and how this is supposed to work in real life advice?








:









Mothering is not for sissys.


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## Janelovesmax (Feb 17, 2006)

I just want to thank you for this thread, because I feel like on the verge of a breakdown and so does my DH. I just really needed to know that I'm not the only one struggling.
I will just keep saying that it will get better, and try to believe it.
Sorry, I don't have any specific suggestions. I will just sub this thread and keep reading.


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Janelovesmax* 












































.

Hugs back to you.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Will taking away a favorite toy or privilege work?

Does he like to play with the computer or watch Tv? I would revoke these privileges the next time he acts up and tell him why. Does he have a favorite toy? I would take it away the next time he tries to hit anyone.

Is he socially motivated? Maybe skipping a playdate or a trip to grandma's will prove a point with him.

I would sit your son down and firmly tell him your expectations and what the consequences will be.

Do get a hold on the situation. There's no need for one little child to make several family members unhappy.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

You sound stuck and maybe the kids are confused. A while back, Mothering mag profiled Ed LeShan as a Living Treasure. She wrote a book (perhaps poorly titled) called, When Your Child Drives You Crazy, that I think you'd find very helpful, given what you are saying. You would need to order it, or get it from Inter Library Loan. I haven't seen it on a book store shelf in a while. But it's well worth it. Of all GD books, I think this one has the most specific, helpful information when life is going roughly wth a child.

I agree, parenting is not for sissies. It's hands-on, physical work.

Here's a little something about her:
http://www.mothering.com/articles/bo...da_leshan.html

She was one smart cookie.


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

WHen we go to my moms house across town, he refuses to go to the car when it is time to leave. At some point (soon!) He is going to get too big for me to carry to the car!

This one seems like the easiest to address.....
"We won't be coming back to grandma's house until you can behave there. It's NOT ok to run away from me when it's time to leave." Then you have to stick to what you say and be consistent.

Mothering is not for sissys. You are SO right!!!

This has done wonders in our home!!!
http://www.amazon.com/Winning-Parent.../dp/1883188040


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## babsbob (Nov 17, 2005)

Oh hang in there! I know I feel that way sometimes.
It's time to step back and reassess things. Try to fix things one thing at a time so as not to get overwhelmed.
Take care of yourself first, if you can find some time to yourself to rejuvinate your spirit. I found a great church I like to go to and it really helps me keep things in perspective and reminds me to be greatful for my family. It's more metaphysical since I'm not religious.

Then try to have date night with your husband to get away from the kids once a week or every other week.
Meanwhile sit down with the kids and set up some family rules. Make sure everyone has input. I really love the book "How to talk so your kids will listen and how to listen so your kids will talk" check that out at the library.

It sounds like every one is in a downward spiral and getting upset and defensive and your kids can sense your mood so it might make them act out also. They may not feel very secure. Try to choose to have fun and enjoy each other and interact in a loving and playful way rather than fighting. I have to go to the store so I can't go into specifics but if you need some support, please feel free to PM me.

Good luck!!!


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
I am wondering if GD is even possible anymore. My home is falling apart. My marriage is falling apart! Because my kids just do whatever they want whenever they want, or else we are fighting all the time.









I can't say I have the answers, 'cause my dh doesn't always agree with me, either ... just today, we left church early 'cause he felt embarrassed over how much freedom I was allowing our toddler.

Quote:

Bedtime = fighting
Naptime = figthing
EVERY SINGLE NIGHT...AND EVERY SINGLE DAY FOR NAP.

If I skip his nap, he is a nightmare from 4-8PM, and I _still_ have to fight with him to get him in bed.
I don't know your son's age, and I certainly can't claim to know him as well as you do -- but I'm wondering if maybe he's reached an age where he's starting to phase out the naps. Both my daughters did this sometime between the ages of 2 and 3.

And there were some periods of grouchiness, as they got used to their new sleep-cycles. About the still having to fight to get him into bed at night -- would he maybe zonk out while sitting on the couch watching TV? I don't know if you sleep with him, but lying down to to nurse when they're showing signs of tiredness (or when I know they _must_ be tired) has worked well for both my girls during toddlerhood (still works for my 3yo).

I nurse my 3yo down, then let my almost 8yo know when Baby's settled enough that I can read. Then my older dd does her evening routine, and comes, lies down, and listens to her book until she drops off to sleep. She never _has_ to do this -- she knows she can stay up longer if she's into a computer game or something, and sometimes she does stay up -- but she usually likes to make sure we get some book-time in, before I'm too sleepy to read.

I have a feeling that if I stayed up late, my girls would, too -- they're just used to me (and often dh) being there in the bed with them as they're dropping off to sleep.

Quote:

My 5 yr old calls me names, he laughs at me when I ask him to pick something up (like the popcicle he threw across the table this morning)








That must be rough! All I can think of is talking with him about how much more pleasant life is, when people are kind to one another, help clean up, and have considerate table manners. Maybe lots of role playing and "pretend" snacks and dinners where you guys act this out in fun ways?

I hope some others have some good (non-punitive, GD) ideas for this issue, and also for this one:

Quote:

WHen we go to my moms house across town, he refuses to go to the car when it is time to leave. At some point (soon!) He is going to get too big for me to carry to the car!
Do you let him know ahead of time, and allow him some time to transition?








I'm subscribing, 'cause I sure don't have all the answers, and we have our own issues at times. I know that my own children are really good at picking up on it when dh and I aren't in unity, and that can make things harder.







, again! Hang in there! You're in a good place for answers.


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## swampangel (Feb 10, 2007)

I would throw out parenting ideals and techniques for a minute and take a good look at what you think you're children are missing or needing. Every family is different....we all have different temperments and the combinations of personalities and styles means that every family will need to do different things in order to function in a healthy way that works for everyone.

To be honest, I feel better about my parenting now that I've thrown out parenting labels that I used to use as a guide. I see the techniques and philosophies of the myriad of parenting information out there as being my foundation. But I rely heavily on my intuition and what I know of my particular children to drive my parenting.

Also, I've experienced that if I give my kids a certain amount of undivided attention on a regular basis, things go much more smoothly. Sometimes just piling on the positive attention and fun times can counter a lot of the negative behavior that might really be attention seeking.








s


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *swampangel* 

Also, I've experienced that if I give my kids a certain amount of undivided attention on a regular basis, things go much more smoothly. Sometimes just piling on the positive attention and fun times can counter a lot of the negative behavior that might really be attention seeking.








s

Thats the part that has me the most







actually. Because the MOST acting up happens directly when I am paying the most attention to them-like letting them lead and following them around for a few hours. Then when I have to do something like dishes, I always try and make it part of the play first, and they normally don't bite, but then I'll go do it and get them a snack so we can still be together and thats when it usually happens the MOST.

The less attention I pay to them, the better behaved they are.

I know, its not supposed to be that way.

And grandmas house is my only refuge for a break. So it would be really hard to stop going. (for me!) I am trying to figure out if that is why they are acting like this-because my mom and dad have a TERRIBLE relationship. They pretty much hate eachother. I wonder how much seeing that is contributing.

And I wonder what the heck I am going to do if I have to cut them off. I have a new baby and 2 young kids. I need REGULAR breaks and cant pay for a babysitter all the time.

I was thinking of calling a mothers helper so maybe I need to get on that. (I dont like being on the phone cause my kids are normally screaming in the background.

Doesnt' it sound like they are so neglected?!?!? Its driving me nuts!!!!!


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

It sounds to me like you're currently overwhelmed - 2 little ones and a baby is hard work! I'm wondering too if there isn't something postpartum going on for you -- postpartum depression/anxiety? Do check into that because it can really throw you for a loop and make all your parenting (and marriage) issues loom really large.

I don't have any 'quick fixes' for you. What I would suggest is:
-Doing everything you can to take care of your own health (mental and physical). So, DON'T give up going to your parents if that's keeping you sane. See what you can do about getting someone to help out. Is there a preschool/playgroup that your older child(ren) can do a morning or two a week to get them some outside stimulation and you some time to just chill with the baby?

-Choose one or two issues that are causing you the most stress - from your post I would say that would be bedtimes for your younger one, and backtalk from your older one? Then come up with some strategies to try for the next couple of weeks to see if things can get better. You do need to keep the new strategies going for a couple of weeks in order to see if they're going to work.

-Where's your dh in all of this? I know that you said that things are rocky right now -- but it takes more than one person to parent 3 children. Bedtime is a perfect example of that. I cannot be the one who puts the kids to bed all the time (any more than dh can, actually). When everyone's tired, it takes more of us and more time to get to bed.

While I consider myself GD, I am not averse to the use of logical consequences either. If my kids won't help clean up in the evening, and I have to spend all my energy/time cleaning, I don't have time/energy to read bedtime stories. If they deliberately make a mess and refuse to help clean it up, I will come to a complete standstill until they make an effort. I'll help. I expect to do most of it, but they must make a good faith effort.

We use limited time-outs - for when our kids hit and when they're completely out of control (I don't think ds's had one for eons, dd went through a spate about a month ago where she had several in a week). Your son's throwing the popsicle probably would have earned a time out in our house. If toys are being misused or the constant source of arguments, the toys will take a time out. (We had two boxes take a trip to the garage yesterday because they were the source of a 20 minute dispute between our kids and it was escalating out of control. With the boxes gone, they actually found a way to play their game together with minimal arguing.)

Is it an "ideal" parenting strategy? No. When my resources are low, then I need to become a bit more authoritarian in my parenting style. On the whole, I think that's better for my kids than me trying to parent in a way that I don't have the energy for, losing my temper, hitting them (which I'm very tempted to do when I lose my temper). when my resources are back up, then I can work toward being more democratic and explanatory.


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

Quote:

Because the MOST acting up happens directly when I am paying the most attention to them-like letting them lead and following them around for a few hours. Then when I have to do something like dishes, I always try and make it part of the play first, and they normally don't bite, but then I'll go do it and get them a snack so we can still be together and thats when it usually happens the MOST.

The less attention I pay to them, the better behaved they are.

I know, its not supposed to be that way.
Can you let them play without you needing to follow them for hours? There is nothing wrong with encouraging independant play, especially since being in their play seems to make it worse. Maybe they act up as a way of saying they don't need to be with you ALL the time, especially the 5yo. the younger one is probably just imitating the older one.

If the 5 yo is calling you names, ignore it. Do not give it ANY attention. Repeat your request with a condition attached to it(we're not doing x until you do y like I"ve asked). Then after he's done it discuss with him the name calling & why it is important to do things that we ask them to.

As for throwing the stick, what was the consequence of that?

The one who is fighting naps is probably done with them. Yes they'll be a bear for a week or 2 until their body adjusts. Move the bedtime to 7pm, or even 6:30 & they won't be as overtired & fight going to bed. It's a short phase that is hard, but it's short.


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## madskye (Feb 20, 2006)

I hope you are feeling better.

Three kids, all at different stages--you must have so much flying at you all the time!

Is the oldest a helper at all? I wonder if you enlisted their help during a one on one talk if they would step up to the plate and stop the fighting and name calling. Or at least decrease. Then together you could work on the middle child. Maybe look at them individually, instead of as three together, might be less overwhelming. Divide and conquer!

When you say fighting, are they fighting with you, or with each other? Or both? I would love to hear some suggestions for how to deal with that without doing time-outs. I wouldn't be able to handle kids beating on me or each other, and I would think enforcing time-outs could take up your whole day. You need something simple and expedient to stop fighting and then be able to move on. Hopefully one of the GD experts will chime in.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

How's it going today?


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 







How's it going today?

better. Thanks

they fight with eachother, and me. I have done really well today except one thing at breakfast when I got mad at my toddler for a normal toddler behavior. (My 5 yr old told me he wanted toast with jelly and she freaked out several times saying "NO-I WANT TOAST AND JELLY!!!! NO-ME! ME!")

I told her a few times she could have toast and jelly TOO but she must not understand that. LOL.

Yesterday I ended up taking everything out of his room, and taking TV and computer away from him and he is just like "Bring it on." And then he sits and annoys me all day. (And at some point, I run out of things to take away-kwim?)

So we know that taking stuff away doesnt work now!

Need a new plan. LOL.

I dont want to use all his good things as fuel for him to do whatever I tell him to do, you know?

But sometimes things HAVE to be done! Like leaving to go somewhere, etc.

He really does think he is the boss and we are going to establish some kind of authority----I just dont know how yet. (Not like the "my kids are robots" kind of authority....just that I am the mama and he is the kid!)

Oh and right now he is sitting on my lap watching spider man on the computer and he keeps putting his head in front of mine so I can't see what I am doing, and he threw a huge fit this morning cause I wouldnt let him have candy for breakfast. (he throws a fit anytime he asks for sugar and I dont give it to him-which I dont.)

So its naptime right now, and my 2 yr old has been trying to take a nap for over an hour but because my 5 yr old is so loud, she keeps waking up.

His is driving me nuts.


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## dantesmama (May 14, 2006)

nak










I'm sorry things are so rough for you and your family right now! While I don't have any specific advice to offer, I did want to point out that your wellbeing is the most important thing. You sound so overwhelmed right now - getting a mother's helper may help. I started going to the gym a month ago, and it's made a huge difference for me - that time away from the kids is priceless, and the exercise reduces my stress level and helps to keep me centered. When I get home, even if my 2.5yo is tantruming and the baby is overtired and crying, it's so much easier for me to deal with it.

Keeping a parenting journal is helpful, too - writing about difficult situations and brainstorming creative ways to deal with recurring issues.

Here's an article by Scott Noelle that has helped me immensely - http://www.scottnoelle.com/parenting/unconditional.htm

And you're right - mothering is *not* for sissies! Good luck!


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

As you are discovering, taking things away doesn't work. Ultimately you will either have to up the ante, or accept that your child is making a conscious choice to lose that "privilege" in exchange for his immediate desires.

I will also say that GD is not about having rules. My kids have a bedtime and for a while there we instituted a very strict (in terms of the clock) routine and wake time. The book Sleepless in America was a godsend and I cannot recommend it enough for you and your situation.

And by the way we didn't use any coercion or threats or punishments or rewards to get my kids from total bedtime chaos to a regular, peaceful bedtime ritual.

GD isn't about not having any rules or boundaries. It's about instilling those rules and boundaries without force.


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## MtBikeLover (Jun 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *philomom* 
I would sit your son down and firmly tell him your expectations and what the consequences will be.

I was going to suggest this. And, because I was just reading the SuperNanny thread, maybe watch an episode if you haven't before. She is big on setting the rules and the consequences. She always posts them on the wall and has the parents explain each of the rules to the children.

The most important thing will then be follow through.

ETA: Never mind on my advice, I just finally got through the whole thread (I couldn't get on to Mothering for awhile) and saw your other post that he isn't fazed by consequences. Sorry - usually I read first and then post but it was lunch time and I didn't have much time.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
better. Thanks

they fight with eachother, and me. I have done really well today except one thing at breakfast when I got mad at my toddler for a normal toddler behavior. (My 5 yr old told me he wanted toast with jelly and she freaked out several times saying "NO-I WANT TOAST AND JELLY!!!! NO-ME! ME!")

I told her a few times she could have toast and jelly TOO but she must not understand that. LOL.

Yesterday I ended up taking everything out of his room, and taking TV and computer away from him and he is just like "Bring it on." And then he sits and annoys me all day. (And at some point, I run out of things to take away-kwim?)

So we know that taking stuff away doesnt work now!

Need a new plan. LOL.

I dont want to use all his good things as fuel for him to do whatever I tell him to do, you know?

But sometimes things HAVE to be done! Like leaving to go somewhere, etc.

He really does think he is the boss and we are going to establish some kind of authority----I just dont know how yet. (Not like the "my kids are robots" kind of authority....just that I am the mama and he is the kid!)

Oh and right now he is sitting on my lap watching spider man on the computer and he keeps putting his head in front of mine so I can't see what I am doing, and he threw a huge fit this morning cause I wouldnt let him have candy for breakfast. (he throws a fit anytime he asks for sugar and I dont give it to him-which I dont.)

So its naptime right now, and my 2 yr old has been trying to take a nap for over an hour but because my 5 yr old is so loud, she keeps waking up.

His is driving me nuts.











Sounds like you and the five year old are in a great big old giant power struggle. Hard as it is to see it, what he's probably trying to do is get some happiness back in the relationship. My dd does that exact stuff, sit on my lap and bug me when I'm on the computer, cause trouble with her brothers when I'm irritated with her, etc. She can sense that I'm annoyed with her, but she doesn't know how to fix it. And I think that she feels a little resentful that I'm irritated with her. Who wouldn't? So she does these little niggling bothersome things that can drive a parent crazy.

I really think that it's up to you to reset your relationship, however. Like you said, clearly taking everything away didn't help. I think taking away TV and computer away is a great idea, but not in a punitive way, but the rest of the stuff isn't working. Sometimes I get in a power struggle with my dd and realize that I'm trying to break her will, or triumph over her, or make her subjugate her needs to mine. Then I realize I gotta rewind, because that's not how I want to teach her to be in a relationship. I'm not a CLer, and I definitely have the authority, but if I'm just trying to prove something to her or force her to do something just because I can, I know that's not going to work.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Wow -- it sounds like your whole day is probably overwelming! I know that I couldn't have ever dealt with 3 -- I had enough trouble with 2 and I was out of the house for large parts of each day!

Might it help to break things down a bit, so you can see individual issues and strategies to address them, rather than one big tangle?

I agree that taking care of yourself may help everything look better. I know its really hard, but the payoff is really worth it. Are you totally opposed to TV? Could you do a video so you have a few minutes to breathe each day? Do you have a gym with childcare nearby so you can get some exercise?

Definitely get your DH in the picture as much as possible. Can he take 2-3 hours on Sat. afternoons so you get some break time? Do you split bedtime so you don't have to do it all?

Seems like most of the issues you mentioned involved your 5 YO. Any chance he is bored? Can you find some organized activities for him, preferably with lots of physical energy burning potential?

And finally, remember that Gentle Discipline doesn't mean no discipline and/or no rules. Some of us are much more comfortable than others here with setting rules and consequences. I try to stay with natural consequences as much as possible, especially for toddlers and young children. But as mine have gotten older (5 & 8 now), I've started using more logical consequences. But I've definitely found that it works best when the consequence is clearly related to the problem and I can explain the whole picture clearly. But also when I'm consistant, even (maybe especially) when I don't want to be.

And I've always found interesting options when I post specific issues/questions here.


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah* 
:, what he's probably trying to do is get some happiness back in the relationship. .

I think you hit the nail on the head here.

I feel like meeting moment to moment needs is impossible and I often snap.

I do get ample time to myself though. It doesnt seem to be making a large enough impact though. The last 2 weeks alone I have gone out by myself or with a friend like 3 or 4 times. AND I normally have all the kids nap at the same time so I have 1-2 hours of that a day.

I also have a housecleaner every 2 weeks.

I am thinking of a mothers helper but I dont know if I can afford it. I feel really guilty even needing one.

M dh works ALOT. (Ok not that much but alot to me! Like 60 hours a week!)

Man I feel like a failure.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

OK, I feel like I've got a one track mind today since I've posted this 2-3 times in various threads, but have you been screened for PPD? A lot of your post reads like some classic symptoms of PPD - short temper, irritated, trouble connecting with the kids (ok so it's the older ones, it still counts), feeling like a failure, like the whole family is breaking down.

You might want to think about htat too -- stress is the number one 'risk factor' for PPD, and if your dh is working 60 hrs a week and you've got 2 older kids, you have, by definition, a lot of stress!


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Quote:

Man I feel like a failure.
You ARE NOT A FAILURE!!! You are a mom trying to be the best you can be for three small children. And with, I'm guessing, a DH that doesn't help that much on a day-to-day basis. This is really hard work. It would be easier if you were satisfied with "so-so" parenting, or authoritarian parenting, but you want to be more than that, so it takes more work. Personally, I feel like GD takes more time, thought, attention, patience and just plain work than more mainstream parenting methods. I completely and totally think its worth it, but I don't think its "easier", as some people do. Maybe it is for some people, but it definitely isn't for me! Failure, here, would be not caring how you got to the means you want, and spanking them into submission. That is what you are trying NOT to do, so you are NOT a failure.

OK, so it sounds like you have some of the basics covered. You should still check to see that you are getting as much sleep as you can, that you are eating properly, and that you are getting some exercise (this one is the one I never get to, personally). And that your kids are too.

You still need to address how much your DH helps. My DH and I both work about 50-60 hours/week, by the time you count commute time. But even when I was a SAHM, we agreed that both the kids and the house were BOTH of our issue. If I were a nanny, I would only be expected to take care of the kids each day, so therefore my days were kid centered and we split the housework in the evenings. The kids were my daytime job, just like his office was his. Now that both of us WOH, we split the parenting and housework every evening. Neither of us takes a break until that evening's priorities are addressed. One cooks, the other does the dishes. We split the kids bedtimes (and alternate so no one gets the same kid all the time). We make a list of what needs to happen that evening and we split it up. It keeps both of us from getting burnt out and resentful.

Beyond that, I think the best advise is for you to pick one behaviour that is causing the biggest issue and work on that specific thing. Remember that it can take 15-30 days before a new habit (from both you and your child) is formed, so give both of you time.


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## laoxinat (Sep 17, 2007)

ITA w/Lynn's post - I'd get screened for PPD. Also, GD definitely does NOT mean no discipline, it means having healthy boundaries and sticking up for them. For me the trick was internalizing that I did not deserve to be treated like cr*p. When *I* believed it, there was almost nothing else I had to do. My kids got it. I mean, it didn't fix everything, there were still challenges, but the basic tone of our relationship changed. Disrespect feeds itself. When kids are disrespectful, we understandably feel angry and annoyed. This comes through, and then they feel less invested in cooperating. And so downward goes the spiral. So to me, it starts with us as mamas valuing ourselves. Knowing beyond a shadow of a doubt that we are doing extremely important work. Did you know that if you had to pay people for what you do as a mama that it would probably cost around 120 K a year? That little stat really woke me up. Lastly, since you do have some time for yourself, I highly recommend meditation. It really helps to have a teacher at least in the beginning. It makes a world of difference in my parenting. Staying in the moment, not anticpating trouble, but not totally ignoring it either. Oh, and I LOVE Parent Effectiveness Training by Don Dinkmeyer. HTHs!


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## Twocoolboys (Mar 10, 2006)

I agree with Lynn's post, too. But, I wanted to add that you may want to read Connection Parenting. You said that you are following your kids around all day, but are you really connecting with them, especially the 5 year old? In Connection Parenting, the author talks about "high connection time". That means that you are fully engaged with your kids. Like playing tag with your kids is high connection time, but watching them play at the playground is not.

Someone a few posts back said that maybe he is just trying to get some happy back into the relationship. High connection time would do that. One of the times that you get to yourself during the week, you should take him with you and leave the littles with whoever you leave them with. Focus on the 5 year old for a bit.

I have found that connection time goes a LONG way towards better behavior. Of course, set your boundries too. That is important as well.


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## jsnmom (Jan 19, 2008)

I'm sorry you are having a hard time with your kids. I have been there done that. I just wanted to share some things I've learned when I was going thru this.

A wise friend of mine told me "You are the mom. You are in charge." I don't know why, but somehow it opened my eyes.







It was a true "aha" learing moment. Also GD doesen't mean you have to let them do/say what ever they want. Since you are the mom and you are in charge it's your job to make some rules for them. Discipline means 'to teach'. GD = teaching in a gentle way.

One of our rules is "no put downs/name calling". If he still calls you names (and I know this will sound mean, childish, non GD) say it back to him - in a calm tone (not yell it back at him out of frustration) - and then ask him how it felt to be called a name. Hopefully he'll say that it doesn't feel good and you can take this moment to explain to him that that's exactly how you felt when he calls you a name. Nobody likes to feel bad and that's why from now on you'll have a rule of "no name calling" for your family. The next time he does it simply remind him "There is no name calling in our family." No long speeches, they usually tune you out after 2 sentences.

We've had our share of bedtime struggles. I'm not usually a 'because I say so' parent but I found explaining and even arguing with them why they need to go to bed at a certain time got me nowhere. Have a set bedtime for them. When it's time to go to bed simlpy show them the time on the clock. Tell them it's bedtime. Stay calm and don't argue with them. Staying clam was hard for me because it was the end of the day I was exhausted and I just wanted them to go to sleep so I can have quiet time to myself. Fake it till you make it was my motto, lots of deep breaths, and reminding myself to stay calm really helped.

"Bring it on". My oldest has said that to me on occasion. One time I remember was in church and he started to scratch the wall paper with his fingers. Really hard and loud. I asked him to stop it several times and one time he replied "Bring it on". And I did. I sat him on my lap, away from the wall. He was wiggeling around and finally said "let me go" to which I replied "You said bring it on, so I did." He still says it once in a while and I tell him "I will".

Don't let them anger you. You don't have to be Ms. Sunshine all day you are allowed to have a bad day. But try to be calm. Vent your frustrations. Writing in a journal helps me. Take it one day at a time and don't forget to show your kids you love them.


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

As far as ppd goes, I have several weeks of faulous and then a few days of "OMG I am going to die this sucks so much." and then I manage to turn it around again. But I can never just sit through the 3 days-I have to complain about them on MDC (







)

I don't think I have PPD. I have been through some _deep_ depressions and this is too short lived to be that.

I am working on being "present" with my children. In fact, I crave it. Due to their ages and the infant, it doesn't happen often. They are all at such different stages.

I am taking every moment I have though because I have missed so much of my oldests life to being completley "unconcious."


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

I can't remember how old your kids are but someone mentioned power struggles and I know how badly this can spiral out of control. My husband sometimes gets into "authority" mode, issuing orders and statements like "I'm the parent and I'm in charge/make the rules/get to decide". This is like throwing down the gauntlet to a 5 year old! I just shake my head and watch the arrows fly for a while, lol. If I ever find myself getting on that tack the same thing happens.

Whoever said GD was hard is right. It's diplomacy in action. I think we GD mamas would make great international mediators!


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## JackieR (Sep 12, 2006)

Consequences are important - and one day of taking away priviliges for a five year old probably won't work - especially because it means you don't have those resources to occupy the child. Five days of taking away priviliges might - but they'll be a loooong five days for you.

A pp mentioned power struggles - sounds like you've got a huge situation on your hands and I would feel overwhelmed if I was in your shoes, too! Your children need you and your husband to be the leaders in the house - to set the guidelines for appropriate behavior and enforce them. This is how your children will learn to behave well on a regular basis and they can feel good about their choices.









You won't fix everything overnight - and your children will regularly screw up and deserve a consequence (even if you were to become some authoritarian freak! ahaha). Choose the problem that bothers you the most and then work on it . For example, when someone is mouthy to someone else, the consequence is that people don't want to be around the rude person. So in our house, if my son is rude or backtalks, he has to go to his room until he is ready to use nice words. We expressly say to him, "you do not get to be with the family if you are not going to use nice words with us". Our son generally is a very kind person - we've been doing this with him since he was old enough to understand it and since he was old enough to backtalk (about age 2.5ish for him). Then after you get in the habit of this, choose another battle.

You are likely to find that the struggle to establish your "authority" (and I mean this in the leadership way, not the _I'm the boss, you are the subservient unimportant child_ way) will get very intense before it gets easy - probably for a month or two. However, I would suggest that the payoff will be immense in that you will have a more peaceful and pleasant home and family.

I would also suggest a family meeting before you start this explaining how unhappy you are with the way things are and that you would like to make some improvements in the family so everyone will be happier. Then specifically outline what they are going to be. That way, your son will know you're going to be "bringing it on".

I could go on and on but I wish you the very best and will be thinking of you!


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

I think you should throw the idea away about being in charge, because I don't think that this is what the situation is about. I don't think it ever is. Parents say, "Oh, no-- better show him who is boss!" when little Larry talks back, but what Larry is really saying is, "Do you still love me?"

Keep this motto in your head: "It takes two to tango." When your children want to tango with YOU, get off the dance floor. When your DS calls you a name, call him a silly name back: Well, YOU, Larry, are a peanut butter flutterbug!" or something crazy.

As for visiting grandma, I would talk about it beforehand-- how to leave. Then I'd leave the other kids with g-ma while you go buckle him in. I'd bribe ahead of time. I'd say, OK, we're going to grandma's, and when we get in the car we're going to play this awesome game while we drive home. But it's a surprise, so buckle those seatbelts in your car seat!

If you have a young infant, this could just be the result of the family mobile spinning wildly until things settle down. . .and the mobile ALWAYS gets crazy with a new baby, no matter what.

When your two are fighting, LEAVE THEM ALONE, but listen. Then, later, when things aren't crazy, do some roleplaying about whatever the situation was (something similar), to give them tools for working it out. If you get involved while they fight (unless they are really hurting each other with words/hands) then it's just too late.










Think of ONE thing you want to work on tomorrow, and how you'll deal with it. And breathe!


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mizelenius* 
I think you should throw the idea away about being in charge, because I don't think that this is what the situation is about. I don't think it ever is. Parents say, "Oh, no-- better show him who is boss!" when little Larry talks back, but what Larry is really saying is, "Do you still love me?"

Keep this motto in your head: "It takes two to tango." When your children want to tango with YOU, get off the dance floor. When your DS calls you a name, call him a silly name back: Well, YOU, Larry, are a peanut butter flutterbug!" or something crazy.

As for visiting grandma, I would talk about it beforehand-- how to leave. Then I'd leave the other kids with g-ma while you go buckle him in. I'd bribe ahead of time. I'd say, OK, we're going to grandma's, and when we get in the car we're going to play this awesome game while we drive home. But it's a surprise, so buckle those seatbelts in your car seat!

If you have a young infant, this could just be the result of the family mobile spinning wildly until things settle down. . .and the mobile ALWAYS gets crazy with a new baby, no matter what.

When your two are fighting, LEAVE THEM ALONE, but listen. Then, later, when things aren't crazy, do some roleplaying about whatever the situation was (something similar), to give them tools for working it out. If you get involved while they fight (unless they are really hurting each other with words/hands) then it's just too late.










Think of ONE thing you want to work on tomorrow, and how you'll deal with it. And breathe!

What a great post! I'm going to try your method of bringing up the fight later on and role-playing. Of course, then I'll have to be able to remember what it was they were fighting about, or that they were even having a fight, or that I even read this post and decided I wanted to try it...wait a minute. What were we talking about?


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## chanibell (Sep 25, 2002)

All I can do is give you a hug. My ds is three and is the king of the house....


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## canadiangranola (Oct 1, 2004)

I would really try for one on one time with your eldest, focused, present time where you are ONLY with him (can you leave the other two at Grandma's and take him for a date?)...

You have a new baby....maybe your five yr old is wondering if you still love him, trying to push you away b/c he's afraid you'll push him away if he needs you, etc? A new baby is a huge adjustment to anyone, and I think five can be tough anyway...we're coming up on five and a new baby in June (w/i two weeks of each other) and although I know DS will love the baby, I also anticipate some difficulty adjusting (and he already has a sister...but to be the oldest can be hard.)

At five they are really trying to figure out that independence, where does mom stop and I begin, etc. I would strongly recommend trying to reconnect with him in a way that he loves, as opposed to trying to "punish" it out of him, you know? I really try, with my DS to talk through the issues when they are not hot button. Staying calm helps "DS, you threw your popsicle. I'm going to put it away now. Next time you are upset, please find another way to tell me about it." You can revisit it later when you don't feel like flinging him across the room with the popsicle.

As for leaving Grandma's house, I would talk about the expectations before you get there. "When it's time to go, I need you to cooperate." Can you give him a job to do? (carrying bag to the car, etc...let him feel important and needed and appreciated?) My kids still both respond to playfulness as well....Let's race to the car, who can get there before I count to 7? Etc.

Good luck to you. (and with all of this said, please know that EVERY mother struggles with her kids....I just went to my homeopath b/c I was tired of feeling angry all the time).

Peace to you and your family.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mizelenius* 
I think you should throw the idea away about being in charge, because I don't think that this is what the situation is about. I don't think it ever is. Parents say, "Oh, no-- better show him who is boss!" when little Larry talks back, but what Larry is really saying is, "Do you still love me?"

So true!

My Roo was just turning 5 when her baby sister Boo was born -- and I second the idea of finding ways to get one-on-one time with your 5yo. But I can certainly understand if you're not ready to separate from your nursing baby. The way Roo and I got (and still get) a lot of our one-on-one time, was to read and play games together during Boo's sleep-time.

Of course, your situation is more challenging because I just had a 5yo and a baby -- and you have a 5yo, a 2yo, and a baby! But if your 2yo *is* currently phasing out naps, you might soon have a situation where your 2yo is awake for a 13-hour stretch and then zonks out, whereas your 5yo probably only needs 10-11 hours of sleep at night ...

I'm just going by the "normals" for my own kids: I realize your kids may be somewhat different, but I'm guessing that your 5yo _probably_ can stay awake for a bit longer than your 2yo, and therefore there may be some times when your toddler's asleep and you can devote more one-on-one attention to your 5yo -- especially if this time coincides with your husband's off-time.

Dh could maybe be in another part of the house holding your baby, so you'd be available to nurse but might get quite a bit of time to do some fun stuff with just your 5yo.

I realize you're giving him attention throughout the day as well -- but I know with my own older child, at this age they're often enjoying card games/board games, or extensive art projects, or intricately set up imaginary play-games, that are hard to have all spread out while the toddler's still awake and liable to come traipsing through and start grabbing.

I mean, my Roo often found ways to do a lot of this stuff on her own -- but if I joined her when Boo was awake, Boo inevitably became interested and wanted to get in the middle of it. But -- good news -- now that Boo is 3 we're finding that we can do some stuff, like Monopoly, and give her some pieces to play with, and she does pretty okay with respecting our game.

Of course, by the time your 2yo's 3, your baby's liable to be pretty grabby -- but may not yet be climbing up on the table to eat all the game pieces yet!







I know, it's a constant juggling act!


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah* 
I'm going to try your method of bringing up the fight later on and role-playing. Of course, then I'll have to be able to remember what it was they were fighting about, or that they were even having a fight, or that I even read this post and decided I wanted to try it...wait a minute. What were we talking about?

Ha, ha! Nah, it is easier than it sounds. You don't have to bring up a specific situation, just a general one . . .I am guessing that while situations may change, who-did-what stays about the same (kids fall into patterns), so you bring up that (how to take turns w/o yelling, how to deal with being bossed around, how to be flexible/not order people, etc.).


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## blue_salsify (Nov 7, 2006)

hi there! (i was in your DDC)









today i really reached a low point w/ 23mo DD (and 3mo DD has ongoing health issues compounding things). my toddler-battle strategies just weren't working so i got out my dogeared, underlined version of:

Easy to Love, Difficult to Discipline

best thing i could have done. i know a book rec is kind of a drag, but if you haven't read this one run out (or online) and get it. very practical and SO helpful. even just the beginning is useful. post her list of ideas inside your cupboards.

hang in there, we have nearly the hardest and most challenging jobs in the world.


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## NotTheOnlyOne (Oct 23, 2006)

I have had some problems with one of my daycare kids recently and I implemented a new "no whining policy" at my house. I know its not the same problem you are having, but here is how I am fixing it... and its working!!

Everytime Aidan whines, he has to go sit on his bed immediately. There is no explaining why he was whining, no "But I stopped now!" I just dont want to hear it at all. I dont want him to even start whining in the first place.

We have been doing this for 5 days now and yesterday he only had to go sit on his bed once.

Before I get flamed for this.... this child is completely babied and whines about everything. "This isnt the fork I wanted!" "I dont want to get down from spinning in the chair!" (we have to take turns) "I don't want to clean up my toys!" 15 or 20 times a day in a horrible baby like whiney voice.... its GOT TO STOP.

Anyway... so he lets out a little whimper and I immediately tell him to go on his bed. He tells me he stopped and I tell him its too late he already started. I already heard it. Go get on your bed. NOW.

I do remain calm. If he balks I "help" him to his bed. he stays there for 2 or 3 minutes and then gets to come to the group again.

It'S WORKING.

I think its working because its immediate and "severe" (he has to completely remove himself from the entire room... not just sit in time out) and it happens every.single.time.he.whines. I anticipate an end to the whining very soon.

BTW: This is being done with his parents permission and approval. And he is almost 4.


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## JustOneMore (May 29, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NotTheOnlyOne* 
I have had some problems with one of my daycare kids recently and I implemented a new "no whining policy" at my house. I know its not the same problem you are having, but here is how I am fixing it... and its working!!

Everytime Aidan whines, he has to go sit on his bed immediately. There is no explaining why he was whining, no "But I stopped now!" I just dont want to hear it at all. I dont want him to even start whining in the first place.

We have been doing this for 5 days now and yesterday he only had to go sit on his bed once.

Before I get flamed for this.... this child is completely babied and whines about everything. "This isnt the fork I wanted!" "I dont want to get down from spinning in the chair!" (we have to take turns) "I don't want to clean up my toys!" 15 or 20 times a day in a horrible baby like whiney voice.... its GOT TO STOP.

Anyway... so he lets out a little whimper and I immediately tell him to go on his bed. He tells me he stopped and I tell him its too late he already started. I already heard it. Go get on your bed. NOW.

I do remain calm. If he balks I "help" him to his bed. he stays there for 2 or 3 minutes and then gets to come to the group again.

It'S WORKING.

I think its working because its immediate and "severe" (he has to completely remove himself from the entire room... not just sit in time out) and it happens every.single.time.he.whines. I anticipate an end to the whining very soon.

BTW: This is being done with his parents permission and approval. And he is almost 4.


I actually do something similar with my kids when they whine. I just simply state, "Im sorry, I cant hear you when you whine". They drop the whine immediately and kinda take a breath and start back w/out the whine. It's almost funny sometimes b/c they think I literally mean that I cant hear their words when they whine.


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