# Irish boobies....



## TreeLove (Nov 20, 2001)

I had an awful time nursing Abe and after bleeding for 2 weeks we quit. I told this to a midwife that I interviewed on the phone. First, she asked if I was Irish, which I am. Then she also asked if my nipples were about the same color as my skin, which they are.

How did she know this and the LCs that I met with never mentioned this?

How many other moms have Irish boobies? Were you able to have a successful nursing career? Was it really painful in the begining? How do you get over IBS (Irish Boobie Syndrome)?









(note: I'm not pg, don't know if I will ever be again...I'm just looking for info...)


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Uh, I'm Irish, so I guess my boobs are too! After the first couple of days with both kids I was fine. My nipples are only slightly darker than my skin (ever seen a virgin snowfall? That's my natural skin colour!!). I've never heard of IBS either, and dd2 is still nursing at 2.


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## gabner (Feb 4, 2002)

Some LC and LLL Leaders are more knowledgable than others. LCs may be RNs or working and not have the time to read. Others may just not have the desire to keep reading about breastfeeding, they just keep practicing as they always have. It really isn't all that hard to pass the LC exam or become a LLL Leader. Some of us are fortunate enough to have the time, resource, desire, experience, ect. to know 'all kinds of stuff.'


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## NewMa (May 2, 2002)

IBS... too funny TreeLove! No Irish blood here but I had really really sore nipples for weeks after dd was born. Every single book I consulted (and there were many) seemed to say that fair skinned women tend to have serious nipples. I'm reasonably fair so the correlation works for me. I just don't understand why this would be- why fairer skinner would get more sore.


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## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

maybe it has something to do with the stories I hear about lack of collagen in "irish"-fairskinned-redhaired-stretchmark prone women who also have hypermobile joints, that shows up (in the field, not in research, or not yet) with higher rates of continence problems and prolapse

nipples less well supportd by collagen might be less able to tolerate that initial acclimatisation to breastfeeding??


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## Cath922 (Jul 8, 2002)

I was just asking about the same thing. I too had an awful time with my Irish nipples and had to stop. But I'm 33 weeks and want to bf this baby. So I am hoping to find a way to do it. Did the midwife say anything else other than just asking if you were Irish? Did she tell you whether or not there was a way to continue?


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## TreeLove (Nov 20, 2001)

She said that she could help me get over it...but didn't elaborate. Onlt problem is, if I DO get pg we aren't going to use her afterall...


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## Cath922 (Jul 8, 2002)

I'm interested in how she could help you. I posted a note to see if there is a way to prepare my nipples for bfing and received some good advice. But, I'm still looking for info on preventing a nipple war zone. My Irish grandmother bfed all 9 of her children and i should be able to do that too.


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## Megs Mom (Mar 19, 2002)

Very painful half-Irish/fair-skinned/red-headed nipples here! Interesting...took me a month to not cry at nearly every latch.

ETA: my LC recommended calendula gel but I never trid it.


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## Cath922 (Jul 8, 2002)

Were you successful in the end? I'm wincing just thinking about the white pain I experienced. I want to be prepared this time and not just go with the positive thinking thing. How did you manage through?


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## reesa (Apr 22, 2002)

I live in Ireland and have never heard of this one before!







I do know that over here midwives give you a solution of whiskey and glycerin (half and half) to use on sore nipples - it worked great on mine.


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

And if that doesn't work, just drink the whiskey and you won't care!!


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## Megs Mom (Mar 19, 2002)

Cath, I was! Still going strong at 7 months! No secret to getting through, just kept telling my tiny newborn I was very stubborn. And I got more determined every time someone told me to quit.


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## Cath922 (Jul 8, 2002)

I want to be determined too, but with my past experiences it was so hard to continue with all the pain, bruising, cracking and scabing. I'm hearing this is all a latching problem. I'm going to LLL meetings soon to talk to a leader about this as well.

Interesting about the whiskey and glycerin and other gels etc. Latest thing I'm trying is no bra and will begin tea bags on nipples in a few weeks. A friend's midwife suggested this helps to harden nipples.

I am determined to bf this babe!


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## howlgirl (Jul 15, 2002)

Have you ever tried Lansinoh? I found it *really* helped with soreness and blisters.


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## indiegirl (Apr 15, 2002)

I have Irish boobies and never once even got sore. I was so surprised b/c my aunts all had a terrible time b/fing--cracked nipples, the whole bit.

I attribute it to dd's great natural latch. She was just a great b/fer from the beginning...


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## TreeLove (Nov 20, 2001)

I was so sore that putting the lansinoh on brought tears to my eyes and a knot to my stomach! I mean it was BAAAAD, really really BAAAAAAD! I was bleeding from my nipples after only 24 hours!


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## jaylind (Nov 19, 2001)

hi treelove!

just in case you didn't see me say it someplace before, putting plastic wrap over the lansinoh when the boobs are not in use works great wonders...and in you case i would start right away, before any problems get started...right after the first nursing session. and an old buddy of ours has said she is allergic to lanolin and that vit. E caps broken open and applied works the same way...but the plastic wrap is key! i WISH i'd known about it when i had wren.


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## sunmountain (Nov 19, 2001)

hey girl!
I'm Irish too, in fact we all spent too much time in the sun yesterday, and have to take it easy and recoup today...
I had horrible sore cracked nipples with all my babes but the last. I nursed while pg with dd, so I think that helped. But the bruising you're talking about sounds like a poor latch! A good LC or LLL leader can help, but you already know that. I used lansinoh and the Vit E capsules, both worked, but I wish I had known the trick with the plastic wrap! You can start using them while you're still pg, to help make the skin more plyable and toughen it up.
Yeah, whiskey worked for me too, but I didn't use it with glycerin and I didn't put it on my nipples








Good luck!


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## TreeLove (Nov 20, 2001)

Hi jaylind! Thanks for the plastic info. Dh and I are giving serious thought concieving baby #4-definately our LAST baby, sometime after Christmas. I will get my tubes tied during the c-birth. Since I feel like this is my VERY LAST shot at nursing I'm gonna start attending LLL meetings the very day I get a + test! LOL!
And we are gonna have a babymoon, fer sure. That was one of the major obstacles Abe and I had-we had NO PRIVACY for the 1st 2 weeks. We had a revolving door of guests-even the pastor "hung-out" with me for like 1-2 hours while his wife was in the neighborhood....

I should have said something, but I felt so sad and defeated, even days after his birth...


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## Megs Mom (Mar 19, 2002)

What's a babymoon? From context I'm guessing it's a time of family bonding with no visitors? Sounds great!

I never heard of the plastic wrap trick. I will remember that for next time. It makes sense...


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## TreeLove (Nov 20, 2001)

like a honeymoon after the baby. I'm gonna ask people to sign up for visits before the birth and then they can only stay for 30 minutes, or something. They're gonna think I'm nuts but I have like 2 brothers, 1 sister, 2 BILs, 11 aunts and uncles, plus their children, 3 sets of great grandparents, 4 sets of granparents, plus my friends, dh's friends, my mom's friends, my MIL friends and usually a few unexpected guests-like the pastor and other church memebers etc, that just want to stop over....

Uggh! Just thinking about it brings back ugly flashbacks!


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## Megs Mom (Mar 19, 2002)

Tree, I think a babymoon is such a great idea. Who cares if they think you are strange for taking signups, right? You have to do what's best for your family, and this sounds like a good one.


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## NewMa (May 2, 2002)

i love the idea of a babymoon!!! never heard the phrase before. everyone deserves one of these.


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## TreeLove (Nov 20, 2001)

We are thinking about TTC in January-maybe. Do you think it would be overkill to start the Vit E soon and continue it during pg? I mean the more the merrier, or..no?


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## Cath922 (Jul 8, 2002)

Just to clarify about the plastic wrap: how much do you use, how do you place it, and what does it do for the nipple? And I am assuming this is plastic cling wrap. Should you put lansinoh and the plastic wrap before you start bfing? I'm eager to try anything that will help to prepare the nips.

I was just thinking how to keep people away today after the baby is born (I'm 34 weeks). I have to have the baby in the hospital, but I am really opposed to it. I've already told dh that there are no visitors for at least two weeks, except my Mom and aunt, and they will not stay long. Every new Mom deserves this time with their new baby and other children. It really is a time just to hunker down and get used to the new environment (and new work). This idea should be promoted more to new Moms and to every mom who may feel obligated to receive visitors.

This is great. I would never have heard all these helpful ideas had it not been for connecting with all of you. Thanks!!!


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## sunmountain (Nov 19, 2001)

My $.02...
Always wear your pajamas when visitors come to call. Guarenteed to shorten their visit and also acts as a subtle hint that they should help out when they are there.


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## jaylind (Nov 19, 2001)

it's no biggie, about an inch or square...LOL yes i was talking about saran wrap. an LC told me...a closed wound heals better than an open one. i thought she was nuts but it worked very well for me and i was blistered and bleeding at 3 days postpartum...on my 2nd baby. so i knew how to nurse. i think it was just getting used to it again.

the number one plastic wrap rule: DON'T FORGET TO REMOVE IT B4 A FEEDING!!!!! sound silly but you brain doesn't work at 2 AM when it's the 4th feeding since 10 PM







i didn't make that mistake or anything but it could be a disaster so do be careful.

i didn't start doing it before birth but bfeeding does dry the nipples a LOT so it certainly couldn't hurt.

HTH!


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## Cath922 (Jul 8, 2002)

Thanks for the info. So one other question, nipples should be soft not hardend for bfing? I don't know why I have it in my head that they have to be tough.
What do you think about the lansinoh with it? And does the plastic wrap stay put or do you have to wear a bra?

Sorry for so many questions, i just want to be successful this time around without so much pain and this idea resonates with me.

And for visitors, I always wore my robe. My sister asked me if she could do anything for me and I said yes, that I really needed the bathroom cleaned. That sent her out the door fast!


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## sunmountain (Nov 19, 2001)

I always tell them to do the dishes!
And I have a friend who loves to mop my floors, she even does it when she watches the kids for me, even if she's only here a 1/2hr!







:
But, the bathroom!?! That's a freakin' hoot!









And yes, you want them supple. "Toughening them up" refers to making the skin stronger and stretchier, not hard, make sense?


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## jaylind (Nov 19, 2001)

if you are talking about the rough-them-up-with-a-dry-washcloth method, i don't see how that could work....it only makes them raw and you don't want to start out with them that way!









the insert on lansinoh brand lanolin has a customer testimonial that goes on about how a woman had chapped nips with every kid except the one when she used lanolin on the nips before the baby came....i don't know if that's just to sell more product or if it's real but considering it's happened to me twice now, if i have another baby, i might try it beforehand as it certainly won't hurt. lanolin makes the skin more supple so it would stand to reason that using before bfeeding begins might help.

i used the plastic with or without a bra...lanolin is surprisingly sticky so the plastic stayed pretty well where i put it...i was always surprised it was still there when i didn't have a bra on. with the vit e oil from caps i don't think it'd stay as well but anything you can do to soothe sore nipples is better than nothing.

even with my ds this last time (6 months ago), i did choose to pump for 24 hours....my nipples needed a break...and after the 24 hours of pumping and bottles and lanolin and plastic, they were still sore but MUCH better than they were...i think i used the plastic/lanolin for about 10 or so just to make sure they got totally healed.

one more word of caution...if you get thrush (yeast infection on the nipples and/or baby's mouth)....lanolin or oils of any kind will make it WORSE because it holds the moisture in and yeast thrives on that...and the plastic will of course exacerbate the problem. you need to watch for that...i've never had it but there are places on the 'net you can research it and find out what to watch for. i have a friend who suffered with it for 3 weeks before she finally began exclusively pumping and then it took another 3 weeks to get a diagnosis and deal with the yeast.


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## TreeLove (Nov 20, 2001)

but how soon should I start? A few days before birth? As soon as I get pg? Sooner?


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## Cath922 (Jul 8, 2002)

That really helps. I will start it a few weeks before delivery (whenever that will be!), unless you think that starting it now would be beneficial. 6 weeks to due date. And I'll get some lansinoh too.

I should get a pump too, but it really hurt last time and I don't like them all that much. So much work.

Thanks for the words of caution about yeast.


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## sunmountain (Nov 19, 2001)

Not all pumps are made the same. I like the hand pump I have, but have no idea what kind it is...I got it as a kit with an electric one I rented after ds2 was born. Ask around about pumps, start a thread or do a search here to find out the best kind, don't give up on pumping if it's going to help.


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## candiland (Jan 27, 2002)

Oh, yes. I am a fair-skinned redhead with tons of stretchmarks... and I experienced every possible nursing problem the Universe could throw at me!
With my DD, I cried through every nursing session for the first two or three months of her life. I had cracked, pussed-up bleeding nips, thrush, mastitis... wow, talk about hell on earth! But we stuck with it -- because I considered formula my enemy (LOL) -- and we nursed for 2 years.
When #2 came in May, I got exquisitely sore.... but then I used Lansinoh every hour on the hour and my nips healed up and got supple really quickly. Then I got thrush, then it re-occurred, and I got 3 nice long cracks on my right nip. They're all healed up now, and it SEEMS as though the thrush is gone.... but I'm going to keep treating it for another two weeks to make absolutely sure...







:


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## jaylind (Nov 19, 2001)

tree, i noticed pain at the end of the first day and blisters/cracking by the 3rd day (both times). i started the plastic and lansinoh on the 3rd day with #2 and by day 5 i was great. so judge from your experience and mine accordingly, i guess....

i wouldn't think you need to use it the entire pg...?

i am pretty fair skinned but a brunette...only about 1/4 irish to my knowledge.

HTH!


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## TreeLove (Nov 20, 2001)

Thanks jay! Did ya come over here for a breather, too?LOL!

As I started reading the new posts on this thread I realized that I had a dream last night that we "suddenly" had another baby. I heard the doctors say "Wow. Another boy." and I thought in my head "What? Already? Crap! I didn't get a chance to prepare myself! How do I get vitamin E this early in the morning?"

HA!

BTW his name was Silas.


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## NewMa (May 2, 2002)

lol Tree. :LOL I had a dream last night that we suddenly had quadruplates! They all looked just like dd (she was one of the 4). Now what does that mean!!









BTW, Silas is a great name!


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## TreeLove (Nov 20, 2001)

I think it goes pretty well with Emmet, Gus, and Abe. They all sound like ol' farmers or somethin'!


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## jaylind (Nov 19, 2001)

hehe tree...i've always hung in bfeeding, this one esp and also in circ...


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## sunmountain (Nov 19, 2001)

um...my ds2 is named Silas


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## TreeLove (Nov 20, 2001)

For the last few months whenever dh and I talk about "our next baby" we just say Silas, like he's already here or something! I love the name and dh does too!


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## sunmountain (Nov 19, 2001)

It means "forest-dweller", and among other reasons, we picked it for that meaning, since he was conceived in the woods








There's also this 'Dead song...Paul and Silas. And Silas is a pretty cool guy in the New Testament, even tho we're not Christian. Oh, yeah! Silas Marner is a great character too!
So far I've only met OLD African American men with the same name...oh, and that guy on Survivor...
Sorry, I love to talk about my kids' names


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## TreeLove (Nov 20, 2001)

What's his middle name? We tend to have "nature" names:
Emmet Moon (Emmet means the truth)
Gustav Star (Gustav means 'staff of the Goths')
Abraham Kodiak. (father of fathers)


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## sunmountain (Nov 19, 2001)

Martin, it's a family name on dh's side. And it sounds like Marner







We have:
Neuen Edmund
Silas Martin
Maxim Jorma
Willow Sage
I think we've hijacked this thread.


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## TreeLove (Nov 20, 2001)

Heck, it was my thread anyway!


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## sunmountain (Nov 19, 2001)

That's right!















By the way, I hope things are going more smoothly with your mom, she's still there, huh?


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## Cath922 (Jul 8, 2002)

I started the lanolin (not lansinoh, but a homeo brand) and plastic tonight. I'm nearly 36 weeks and counting down and determined. I'll also get a pump too, just in case.

I'll let you know how I did with it in the end and will hope for the best. Thanks!


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## TreeLove (Nov 20, 2001)

just a bump since I'm gonna need this sooner than expected!


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## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

Tree!

not Irish, but Italian, with milk white skin and dark hair, and the palest nipples you ever saw. had the worst cracked and bleeding nipples. i quit also. nothing helped, not lansinoh, not cabbage leaves, warm packs, etc. i was so determined to bf that i would have stood on my head and spit wooden nickles if that would have helped.

so i stopped, and have always regretted it. i even had someone from the LLL comeover and "evaluate" my baby and me nursing and especially latching on. sigh...


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## MamaOui (Aug 9, 2002)

ppppppppppppppppp


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## TreeLove (Nov 20, 2001)

Thanks Kerry! I PMed you back!


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## DaryLLL (Aug 12, 2002)

Sorry, laides, research has not shown that ethnicity causes one to have more or less nipple soreness.

If that were true, the Irish, the Swedish, etc, would have died out centuries ago!

It is almost alwyas incorrect latch on. It can be tongue tie, high arched palate in the baby, him doing something incorrect with his tongue.

That said, lanolin, esp the hypo-allergenic brand, Lansinoh, does work well to heal sore nipples. Plastic wrap, would keep in moisture. Moist wound healing has been shown to be the quickest way to heal a sore of any kind. I believe Lansinoh offers a remedy that combines the 2, which would lessen the risk of feeding the baby the saran wrap some night.


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## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

Where were all of you 15 yrs ago when i had exquisitely tender, cracked, bleeding nipples?

By the way, the LLL leader that came to my home when i was desperate said the dd was a "gourmet". sigh

i will pass along the lanolin saran wrap advice to a dear friend with tender nipples.


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## Cath922 (Jul 8, 2002)

watch out for long use of the plastic wrap. it can cause a moist enviornment for yeast. i did it after my ds was born in sept, and i still had sore nipples. the very best remedy that worked for my bleeding nips was dr newmans all purpose nipple cream, with taking breaks with pumping. the other best thing i used are the wool nursing pads for whitteness from cold nips. the wool pads have lanolin in them which turns to lanolin soap with a let down. i'm still using the lansinoh and it does help.

there is another thread that i posted in sept about the plastic wrap that you should read first before sending the advice to your friend.


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## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

cath...ok, i will check it out. thanks!


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## TreeLove (Nov 20, 2001)

Where do you find Dr Newman's Nipple Cream?


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## Cath922 (Jul 8, 2002)

Newman's nipple cream is a prescription compound, so it has to be mixed by a pharmacy. Your OB should be able to prescribe it for you and if not then check out his web site (dr. n's) where the formula is. It's a mix of three different ointments that help to heal, fight yeast, and so on. It really is the best thing. I would not have gotten through weeks three through five without it when my nips were at a critical point.

I've used it since when I had blebs and blisters too and it healed them.

Most midwives know about this too and OB nurses should as well as LCs.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

See "Treatments for sore nipples and sore breasts" in Dr. Newman's advice section here:

http://www.kellymom.com/newman/index.html


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## wombat (Nov 3, 2002)

I read recently that anaethesiologists for the first time ever found that a genetic marker affected pain perception and guess what, it was RED HAIR. It seems red haired people require more anaesthetic during operations. I'm not kidding. So I wonder if that means they also feel more nipple soreness??


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## Mamaste (Dec 21, 2001)

Skin sensitivities such as this are well known among surgeons, who know that scar tissue is more likely to be bright red, ugly, knobby and obnoxious among people of certain coloring types and/or ethic heritage. Being Irish is one of those factors. This is not something that surgeons take lightly, since it it not only a serious cosmetic concern but the lumpiness of the scar tissue can contract and cause functional problems. My very fair, Irish ex had trouble with fiery, lumpy scar tissue after shoulder surgery. I too am fair-haired with a strong Irish lineage, and I tend toward brighter, more obvious scars.

I also had a lot of nipple sensitivity and adjustments after the birth of both of my children. I'm happy to say that once it's worked through, though, things are a breeze!

Good luck!


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