# What do you think, should Daddy stay away?



## gabysmom617 (Nov 26, 2005)

(Sorry if this was already posted somewhere..)

What do you think on this article? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1879


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## Novella (Nov 8, 2006)

I can certainly see the reasoning he offers and think it would apply to many women. Not all, but many. As with so most other things, it really depends on the particular couple.

If women were more likely to be able to birth under the circumstances Odent finds ideal, the "necessity" of their male partners at the births may be diminished. But knowing the adversarial nature of things that we found in hospital births, my husband's presence was essential. The things we had to fend off in hospital made the "la-la land" mindset impossible anyway.

If I birthed again, I would UC at home. My husband would be home, but may well not be in the room with me. Whatever I decided at that time, I guess. But I do often fantasize that it would be even smoother at home and I would be entirely by myself in my bathroom.


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## MeepyCat (Oct 11, 2006)

I think it's fascinating how many reasons this MALE obstetrician has come up with to exclude MEN from the delivery room.

Personally, I am really glad my partner was there during my labor, and I know that he wanted to be there. I don't think that men should be in the delivery room if they don't want to be, but nor do I believe that participation in the birth of their own child causes men to become spontaneously schizophrenic, or that the experience will cause a stable couple to split.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Uhhh... he is a male OB??? And he thinks the father shouldn't be there, based on gender? Dude doesn't have a brain in his head obviously because he is arguing for his own retirement. Because if a man who the woman has an intimate relationship with has no place supporting her in labour due to his penis, why the heck should this guy be invited?


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## barefootpoetry (Jul 19, 2007)

I think it really depends on the couple and most definitely can't be boxed up neatly as a "no man should be present at his child's birth" thing, which seems to be what Odent is trying to say.

On one hand, there are men who are wonderful participants in their child's birth, and the experience draws the couple closer than anything else ever could. On the other hand, there's fathers that are wringing their hands and sweating bullets in the delivery room and freaking mom out way more than she needs to be.

My husband is in the second category. I am strongly leaning towards not having him present at the birth of our next baby (a homebirth) until I start pushing, because he is the type to completely spaz out and pollute the room with negative energy. And to be quite honest, he's not really an active labor "coach" either, so it's not like I'll be missing out on anything.

THis is just our personal dynamic, and I know there are many more couples that feel this way. And I agree with Odent to an extent that it can destroy what would otherwise be a smooth labor. So yes, I can say that not all couples should feel obligated to include Dad in the labor proceedings, but neither should all couples exclude Dad if he has a geniune positive interest in being a part of his child's birth.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I don't buy it. Not at all.

I have never done well with most females. I don't, as a rule, find them comforting. I usually find them irritating.

My dh was my ROCK during my 31 hour labor with dd. He understood what I needed with the smallest gestures and sounds. If I had to explain my wants and needs to someone else it would have been VERY distracting to me.

-Angela


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## almadianna (Jul 22, 2006)

this might work for some but not for all.


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## momto3wantingmore (Feb 20, 2008)

I personally can see this as something that maybe needed for some but not all. I know I want my DF there for the birth but I plan to labor alone till then. He hates to see me in pain and I can sense when he stresses about my pain. So I am planning to avoid that next time. Of course if I feel I need him he will be right there for me.


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## Ladybyrd (Sep 18, 2007)

I think that article and his opinion is the biggest load of crap I've read in a long time.


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## the elyse (Apr 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I don't buy it. Not at all.

I have never done well with most females. I don't, as a rule, find them comforting. I usually find them irritating.

My dh was my ROCK during my 31 hour labor with dd. He understood what I needed with the smallest gestures and sounds. If I had to explain my wants and needs to someone else it would have been VERY distracting to me.

-Angela

what she said. i could NOT have had my son without my husband. period.

another OB to add to the ignorant list.


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## delicious (Jun 16, 2003)

well. i don't really agree with that, but i think he is a pretty smart/valuable person to the birth community. didn't he start pushing for water birth and more homelike hospital environments in the 70s or something? i can't remember. maybe i'm confusing him with someone else.

that being said, it may be true for some people in some relationships. i am not one of those people, though. everything is better for me when my dp is around...including birth. i can't imagine being without him.


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## barefootpoetry (Jul 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the elyse* 
what she said. i could NOT have had my son without my husband. period.

another OB to add to the ignorant list.









I understand that you disagree with his stance in this article, but Michel Odent is FAR from "another ignorant OB." He helped pioneer the revival of the natural birth movement in the 60s, has written 11 books on the power of natural birth, has spoken at the Trust Birth Conference, and appears in The Business of Being Born. He's also written a number of articles right here on Mothering.


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## mynetname (Mar 17, 2008)

What I got from this article can be expanded to mean: anyone not really helping or nervous cannot be helping the mother in labour.
To make a generalisation about men, I don't agree with.


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## danotoyou2 (Jan 19, 2007)

I wrote about this here.

http://www.truebirth.com/2008/04/15/...delivery-room/

In short; I think he's good to shake things up a bit. We should question every aspect of our birthing culture, because frankly, *something* isn't working.


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## Mommal (Dec 16, 2007)

I think the article is a sad case of correlation mistaken for causality.

Yes, birth has become more fraught with interventions since the 70s, when dads were first being allowed into the delivery room. But a lot has changed since those day in addition to dads' presence at birth. Routine fetal monitoring, reduced nursing staffs, an ever more intervention-happy medical community... Don't these things at least _share_ the blame for the sad state of childbirth today?


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## gabysmom617 (Nov 26, 2005)

I don't agree with his generalisation either. I feel like he has some good points here and there, but there's a lot of holes in there.

I do think that men should be what the partner needs him to be. He should be taught what to expect, what it means when a woman is screaming, and how to keep a low profile and to be calm and all that. I believe he should be prepared on what to do as the baby is born, what to do after the baby is born, before the placenta delivered and all of that. He should be fully prepared.

I also think he should keep in tune with the fact that if he doesn't think he can handle it, if he's going to be stressed about it etc, then he should have the option of kind of being out of the way or not there, if he wants to be, and should be ok doing so during if he feels like he is losing it, or if the mom wants him gone. I don't think the family should feel like it's a huge failure for him to not have been there because it should be about what mom wants at the time.

As for the father being responsible for the higher levels of stress and contributing to longer labors, well that's a bunch of crap. I mean, there is a LOT of stuff involved in hospital births that could contribute to the rise of the same stress labor-slowing hormones leading to interventions and complications, so I think it's a little dismissive to blame it all on dad being there.

I agree that the article is a mostly a bunch of crap, but I do think the guy has a point or two about preparing your husband and having a stress free birth. But it kind of sickens me how he just generalizes and put it on ALL men. ALL men are not the same. Some are calmer and more able to handle it than others. I think as long as a man is a calm supporter and can handle it, then what could possibly be not ok?

Oh, adding, I do think that what he says about men seeing birth = divorces and so forth is a load of archaic crap. Having a new baby is stressful on any relationship, and there are a lot of factors that could lead to a man feeling depressed after a birth, or lead to having marital problems.

I also don't like how he seems to assume there is something shocking and repulsive to a man about the vagina during birth that a man will automatically remember when he's trying to be intimate with is partner later down the road. His viewpoint on keeping a little mystery seems a little outdated, and that also depends on the couple.


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## nashvillemidwife (Dec 2, 2007)

So when Michel Odent talks about the cascading hormones of love and the importance of natural birth and midwives he is a guru, but when he says something we disagree with he is a "typical *MALE* OB doctor"?

I think that when women are attuned to their labors and do not fear birth he is right that it will go a lot faster and easier with no distractions. Bear in mind that in general when you're talking about dads in the delivery room, most of the time you're talking about the dads who come to hospital births scared out of their minds, waiting for their women to get their epidurals so they don't have to fret over how to care for her while she's in pain. This is out of the realm of experience for most of us here, but exactly what the "typical male OB doctor" sees of his hospital patients every day.


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## babysanchez614 (Jan 27, 2008)

i think it's a very interesting article which raises many valid points and questions. i think his aim is to travel back to the basics, to look at how animals/mammals/humans in their most primitive form behave in order to unravel what we has humans have complicated with our minds/emotions/technology.

not saying i agree with all he has said, just think in order to continue to discover the intricacies of birth, one shouldn't entirely dismiss biological observations simply by the viewpoint of one's own experience without some examination.

it could be argued that having the male figure present is in some way an interference. but we have that choice of whether or not we want that interference that helps us get through it.

same is true that some woman do better with and want medical/non medical interventions during birth, doesn't change the true biological factors at play during birth.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

the "what are midwives for?" discussion in the UC forum has some good insights on this topic. In particular, check out Fourlittlebird's post.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nashvillemidwife* 
So when Michel Odent talks about the cascading hormones of love and the importance of natural birth and midwives he is a guru, but when he says something we disagree with he is a "typical *MALE* OB doctor"?

I think that when women are attuned to their labors and do not fear birth he is right that it will go a lot faster and easier with no distractions. Bear in mind that in general when you're talking about dads in the delivery room, most of the time you're talking about the dads who come to hospital births scared out of their minds, waiting for their women to get their epidurals so they don't have to fret over how to care for her while she's in pain. This is out of the realm of experience for most of us here, but exactly what the "typical male OB doctor" sees of his hospital patients every day.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *babysanchez614* 
it could be argued that having the male figure present is in some way an interference. but we have that choice of whether or not we want that interference that helps us get through it.

same is true that some woman do better with and want medical/non medical interventions during birth, doesn't change the true biological factors at play during birth.

Huge







: to both of you.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gabysmom617* 
As for the father being responsible for the higher levels of stress and contributing to longer labors, well that's a bunch of crap. I mean, there is a LOT of stuff involved in hospital births that could contribute to the rise of the same stress labor-slowing hormones leading to interventions and complications, so I think it's a little dismissive to blame it all on dad being there.

Odent isn't attending typical hospital births. He's one of the pioneers of water birth in France. "The most important thing is not to disturb the birthing mother."

I'll agree, the "all fathers" tone is bad. However, have you ever seen a book or article that is in favor of fathers being at the birth that acknowledges that it might not be right for all couples?


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mynetname* 
What I got from this article can be expanded to mean: anyone not really helping or nervous cannot be helping the mother in labour.

But for many women, that could be worse if it was their partner whom they were relying on to be a bastion of support.


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## almadianna (Jul 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
Odent isn't attending typical hospital births. He's one of the pioneers of water birth in France. "The most important thing is not to disturb the birthing mother."

I'll agree, the "all fathers" tone is bad. However, have you ever seen a book or article that is in favor of fathers being at the birth that acknowledges that it might not be right for all couples?

regardless of what he did, which i am sure most of us are aware of, any article that has that tone, or any other generalizing tone like this is bad in my eyes.

articles that try to lump all women into one of two or three categories are part of exactly what is wrong with the medical model right now.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Anyway, for me, I'm very aware of my dh's needs. So he won't be at the birth barring a sudden change in my needs when the time comes. His presence would make me continually aware of how he was feeling, what he needed, how *I* could make *him* more comfortable and not worry.

Had that belief *before* reading Odent's article about a year ago.

Have also had condescending UAVs tell me they're "sorry" that I don't have a dh I can "rely" on.


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

Myself and my husband do fit that profile, but I don't think that means everyone does. He's very needy, and nervous around birth and feels like he has to be *doing something* and ends up doing something STUPID when what he really needs to do is sit down and shut up.







I dunno, maybe he'll have learned his lesson last time, or maybe I'll be sending him to the pub. Man, I hope this birth isn't on a Sunday.


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## AllieFaye (Mar 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
Uhhh... he is a male OB??? And he thinks the father shouldn't be there, based on gender? Dude doesn't have a brain in his head obviously because he is arguing for his own retirement.

You must not know Dr. Odent's story. He publicly announced about fifteen years ago that he would no longer attend births, _because_ he believes that men don't belong in the delivery room. He now focuses on research, teaching and speaking at midwifery conferences. So, yes, he put his money where his mouth is, and walked away from being Chief of Staff at Pithiviers, outside Paris. He's been on the forefront of changing birth for decades, and isn't afraid to alienate anyone.


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## babysanchez614 (Jan 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *almadianna* 
regardless of what he did, which i am sure most of us are aware of, any article that has that tone, or any other generalizing tone like this is bad in my eyes.

articles that try to lump all women into one of two or three categories are part of exactly what is wrong with the medical model right now.

right. but what is also wrong with the medical model is entirely dismissing possible biological discoveries and truths because it makes generalizations that do not fit their specific/personal/financial/routine agendas. maybe we shouldn't do that here.

no one likes their pre-conceived beliefs to be questioned.


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## almadianna (Jul 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *babysanchez614* 
right. but what is also wrong with the medical model is entirely dismissing possible biological discoveries and truths because it makes generalizations that do not fit their specific/personal/financial/routine agendas. maybe we shouldn't do that here.

no one likes their pre-conceived beliefs to be questioned.

i am perfectly fine with questioning an article that is poorly written and full of generalizations.
i said in my first comment that it might work for some, but not for others... and i stand by that.

some women couldnt imagine their births without their partners. this does not make them freaks or wrong. this just makes them part of the many that do not fit into someone's idea of what they believe birth is like.

*ETA*

Hello from houston!!!


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## babysanchez614 (Jan 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *almadianna* 
Hello from houston!!!









Hello!!!


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## Tuwamare (May 31, 2006)

I was honored to hear Dr. Odent speak at the Trust Birth Conference. While we are all entitled to have our own opinions and do as we see fit, I do believe Dr. Odent has done a lot of research into the subject. The first time I read this opinion of his, my gut reaction was that it was a lot of bull.

Then, I started thinking about my own births. DH was always there. How frightening was it for him at the first when I was in pain and he couldn't do anything about it? What about when they all descended on me to prep me for a c/section? He was there in the OR with me and still talks about seeing my insides. He tried to be strong and was great with the baby, but it must have been distressing for him.

At the next birth, the hospital staff pushed him aside completely, and he began worrying all over again when they started whispering about a possible repeat section. Instead, he got to watch the CNM cut open my perineum.

At the next one, the CNMs again tried to push him aside and keep him in the dark. He let them know that he didn't appreciate it then and he wanted to know what was going on. He has told me he felt awful making me do all this stuff to make labor progress when he knew I was in pain... even though we had agreed upon all that. My impression of his help at our 3rd birth was that he was wonderfully supportive... but he felt helpless.

He missed the next one. Maybe there is something to Dr. Odent's theory. I was at 5 cm and so he went out to check the older kids in my inlaws' motorhome in the hospital parking lot. He needed to calm a few of them down, then showed the ER staff the Hale-Bopp comet on his way back in. He thought he'd walked into the wrong room because I had already had the baby. He felt badly for missing it, but my labor just took off after he left. He'd only been gone about half an hour.

Then we had babies at home. He busied himself with readying the supplies, cooking and other tasks most of the time. He caught the first one we had at home. He stayed in the kitchen except for the actual birth for the next one... he was pretty busy at the next setting up and letting me lean on him for awhile, but he kept busy in the kitchen for some time before and after the birth, and with our last one, he was present but again, left it to "us women." I've asked him about it, and while he loves to witness the birth of each of our children, he feels there really isn't anything for him to do except take care of the other kids, cook and get things ready. He says that he is comfortable knowing this is a "woman's thing" (his words).

So, maybe there is something to what Dr. Odent says. It may not be on an obvious level... and I know I like to depend on my hubby when I need him, but he sees this as something he can never fully be a part of. I know I was always on my own during my 3 miscarriages... the last one had a full-blown labor, and he stayed in the living room as I labored in the bedroom. At the time, part of me was upset that he wasn't in there holding my hand, but then I found the strength in myself to realize this was my task... not his. I depended on myself, and I think because of this, my last birth went very calmly. I didn't need him to do anything at that birth that he was not comfortable with... I labored on my own and he got to participate in his own way instead of feeling he had to take care of me.


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## Incubator (May 11, 2006)

I had a hard time putting this article out of my mind in bed last night. I have a lot of respect for Odent, however, I can respect someone and still disagree with a whole range of things they believe. This is one of them. It's no, IMO, the man being in the birth room that causes trouble, it's having an UNEDUCATED man in the birth room. My DH for instance probably won't be the best at it because he doesn't know every detail that i know. But even at DS hospital birth where we were both new at it, he was amazing. I never felt that he was nervous, he didn't talk to me, distract me, or try to fix anything. Now that we're having a UP/UC I can only see things getting better. No one will be there to say "this isn't right" or anything that might make him nervous.
Now, if you have a man who's been told his whole life, and firmly believes that birth is dangerous, or if you have one of those "fixers" then yeah, I could see that being a problem. But it isn't a problem because he's a MAN, it's because he has the wrong expectations of birth. I woman with the same beliefs could do just as much damage. This is exactly the reason that I want my husband in the pool with me, but I don't want my grandmother, aunts, or my stepdads girlfriend in the house, period. They only want to come to "help if anything goes wrong" not to help things go RIGHT!


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I agree with a great deal Odent has said through the years. I respect him as a bringer of change to the birth scene. I just think he's off on this one.

I understand that there are men who are not helpful to the process. *PERSONALLY* I would not be content with a man of that sort as my life partner. That is not acceptable *to me* I am perfectly okay with it working for some women though.

For ME, I need my dh to be educated and on board and involved in the whole process. And he wouldn't have it any other way.

-Angela


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## gabysmom617 (Nov 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
Odent isn't attending typical hospital births. He's one of the pioneers of water birth in France. "The most important thing is not to disturb the birthing mother."

I'll agree, the "all fathers" tone is bad. However, have you ever seen a book or article that is in favor of fathers being at the birth that acknowledges that it might not be right for all couples?

Yeah, I didn't know that about him until I posted that here. But in the article, was he speaking of fathers at homebirths causing longer labors, or was he speaking of the rise of hospital birth complications due to the presence of the father?

Quote:

At the present time, when birth is more difficult and longer than ever, when more women need drugs or Caesareans, we have to dare to smash the limits of political correctness and ask whether men should really be present at birth.
Please (politely







) correct me if I'm wrong, but is he looking for a correlation between hospital births, longer labors, and increased interventions, and dad being present? To me, something just sounds off about that. I mean, of course, each situation is different but, IF he's trying to lump this altogether as related, then I too think he's a little bit off the mark...

But that's just my humble $.02 I am far from a birth expert, but I learn a lot here.


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## nashvillemidwife (Dec 2, 2007)

I would like to point out that Dr. Odent did not write this article. It is about him and his beliefs, but his words were strung together and pieced into a story by someone else.


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Incubator* 
It's no, IMO, the man being in the birth room that causes trouble, it's having an UNEDUCATED man in the birth room.

I understand what you're saying, but education will only get you so far. There are some types of people, men and women, who can know intellectually all kinds of facts about birth and understand the inherent safety and need for calmness and all that, but in the face of the real thing totally lose their marbles. I think there is also some component of how empathetic and in-tune a person is, and it happens for whatever reason that more men than women have trouble in that arena. My husband is maybe worse than most; he doesn't really grok human emotion. I could sigh because I just saw a beautiful sunset and he'd ask me full of concern what was wrong with me. I could walk into a room in tears and he'd continue with what he was doing because he wouldn't notice any kind of distress. Just not that kind of person.


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## barefootpoetry (Jul 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *paquerette* 
My husband is maybe worse than most; he doesn't really grok human emotion. I could sigh because I just saw a beautiful sunset and he'd ask me full of concern what was wrong with me. I could walk into a room in tears and he'd continue with what he was doing because he wouldn't notice any kind of distress. Just not that kind of person.









I know you didn't mean that to be funny, but I had to laugh, because my DH is the exact same way.


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## jennica (Aug 10, 2005)

I was interested to read this article because I didn't find DH's presence particularly helpful in any way. I often times want to bar him from any future deliveries, but feel kind of like I have to let him be there because he is that Dad. I was disappointed that the article didn't make a better case for itself. It provided lots of anecdotal "evidence" that men should not be in the labor room, and citing the most extreme examples of those, but not backing that up with anything at all. These are just men he heard about? I was very interested in the evolutionary aspect, but that was barely even touched on.

Quote:

If there are any doubts, we only have to look across the rest of the mammal world in order to see that no other female, save the human female, invites her sexual partner to witness her giving birth.

Of course, it would not be possible for women to give birth alone.
And saying that it would not be possible for a woman to give birth alone is odd. Is he saying biologically? I'm pretty sure there are some stories over on the UC board that would challenge this belief of his.

I wish he stuck to facts and not gotten so off track with scary stories about how my husband is going to go crazy or divorce me if I invite him into the labor room.


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## MammaB21 (Oct 30, 2007)

Some of what he said was interesting and accurate. Women do need peace and serrenity during labor. I just don't understand why he is boxing in EVERY husband into this made up cattegory of stress filled, blubbering, panicking idiots. The part about the male can't be calm no matter how hard he tried to fake it, and that stresses out the women. Where is he getting his statistics from? I think it is more than possible to have a well informed, well prepare, relax, and very supportive husband during labor. I also HATE the notion that men can't see their wives in labor without leaving some emotional scar.
Maybe the reason this OB is witnessing such stressed out men is the invironement he is in. It is in a mans nature to be protective, watching your wife completely out of control at the hands of a doctor pushing every intervention onto her can be quite traumatizing. Also, IMO, hopitals carry with them a certain amount of panic. Everything is treated as an emergancy. Mom is busy laboring, and so dad is looked to for all decision making, and paper signing. Uh, ya, that is stressfull. My DH sure wasn't very crunchy at the time of my birth (even though he is more so now) but he openly expressed concerns with the few interventions that took place after it was all said and done. HHhhmmm...just some food for thought.


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## tireesix (Apr 27, 2006)

It all depends on the family, the partnership and what the woman is comfortable with.


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## accountclosed3 (Jun 13, 2006)

i agree with what others have said, it really depends upon the individual.

i think that there are many and diverse valid reasons for not having the father present at the birth (and honestly, it is a rather new phenomenon--i believe within the last 100 years--for whatever that may be worth from a cultural anthropology stand point), just as there are many and diverse vaild reasons for having the father present (or any males present for that matter).

for my own part, i want my husband present only if he can maintain a level of presense with me, and not step outside of my own process with fear, anxiety, or anger (this is an odd one that comes from his family; they become angry with one who is sick or injured because it is "inconvenient" to them to have to take care of someone, and there is also a lot of shaming of someone who has a cold, for example. they would assert "if you took care of yourself, you wouldn't get a cold!" and so on. he still carries the vestages of this, though it is rare that they crop up. while labor/birth are not illnesses/injuries, they do require time and presence, and it is this that his family doesn't want to give and thus would likely be considered quite the inconvenience).

in such a circumstance, and in circumstances where i have been sick or even just normal but considered some kind of nuisance to him, i have sent him away or gone away myself (if possible). i had a flu in january (first time in several years) and for about half the time he was great, but then he became very agitated and angry. i asked him to go for a walk, and then do to some things for himself that were away from me and my space, and he came back and was present.

i assume that, during birth, he will be able to maintain that presence, but if not, i'm happy to send him out.


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

I think it depends on the couple. My dh is the only person who knows me well enough to anticipate my needs and understand my looks. I didn't have to ask him for anything. He knew enough to keep quiet when I needed him to and he knew enough to not touch me unless I asked him to. If I were married to someone else (an ex for instance) I WOULD have been better off without the male.


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## clutterbug (Apr 6, 2007)

This was very thought provoking. For me, I can kind of relate to it. I love my DH and he is wonderful, but he is not necessarily the first person I would turn to in labour for support...I mean, I definitely want him there, but I won't want that pressure on him to support me. He is great at being told what to do but doesn't really have that instinct of knowing what I need without me saying so. I am sure there are some dads out there who are naturals at it, my DH just isn't one of them, I don't think. That's why we had a doula last time (this time our midwife will come whenever I feel I need her). She was wonderful support to me but also to my DH, and she reassured him through all the worry etc that comes along with seeing your partner in pain and not really being able to do anything about it.

I think it would be near impossible to really see a turn toward excluding dads from births (like, good luck keeping my DH away from seeing his babies come into the world - the most incredible moments of his life, he says!!). IMHO maybe the better goal would be to ensure that all dads are prepared and supported for the experience, because it definitely can be upsetting for some who feel helpless and of course mothers can feel that tension and anxiety and have it affect their labour, at least to some extent.


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## Belia (Dec 22, 2007)

I decided to take this dr's opinions with a HUGE grain of salt the instant I got to the third paragraph and read the line that said "I have been in charge of 15,000 births."

Ummm.... I wonder what those 15,000 moms would say to that. Aren't they the ones who birthed the babies?


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## nashvillemidwife (Dec 2, 2007)

I would just like to point out, again, that this is a man with a very heavy French accident (if the interview was even conducted in English), being quoted by a British reporter.

Do we all know who Michel Odent is?


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## almadianna (Jul 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nashvillemidwife* 
I would just like to point out, again, that this is a man with a very heavy French accident (if the interview was even conducted in English), being quoted by a British reporter.

Do we all know who Michel Odent is?

ok... i fail to see what his french accent has to do with what he was saying.


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## barefootpoetry (Jul 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *almadianna* 
ok... i fail to see what his french accent has to do with what he was saying.

He is notoriously difficult to understand when he speaks, bless his heart. It's entirely possible the interviewer/writer of the article/whatever might have thrown some sentences together based on what they thought he said. Plus, there's always the whole "lost in translation" thing if indeed this interview wasn't conducted in English.

ETA: For me, his credentials are far more than enough to allow me to overlook what would otherwise be considered damning coming from any other OB. His decades of positive influence in the birth revolution outweigh one potentially disagreeable article, in my eyes.


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## amitymama (Nov 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nashvillemidwife* 
I would like to point out that Dr. Odent did not write this article. It is about him and his beliefs, but his words were strung together and pieced into a story by someone else.

Exactly. Ya'll wouldn't even be surprised at how controversial the story appears to be and how badly it's written if you knew the source. _The Daily Mail_ is barely one level above a tabloid here, IMO. It's all hysteria and "zomg!! your kids could DIE, you could DIE, Immigrants are scum", etc... so take this story with a grain of salt. I would bet my grandmother that Odent never said 'all men', that it is just being spun that way to get a bunch of people het up and think them homebirthin' natural birth folks are freaks.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/fatherpart.asp

Note that the language in this one is "many" "some", etc.

Quote:

My only objective is to justify a series of questions by suggesting that the issues are much more complex than we commonly believe. It would be premature to offer clear-cut answers. Questions should precede doctrines.
Not exactly a "OMG ALL MEN ARE BAD!!" tone, is it?


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## smeisnotapirate (Aug 24, 2007)

*no longer relevant*


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## 3cuties (Mar 4, 2006)

Haven't read it, but in my experience -- definitely not. I would rather have him (my husband) than anyone else.


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## ColoradoMama (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amitymama* 
Exactly. Ya'll wouldn't even be surprised at how controversial the story appears to be and how badly it's written if you knew the source. _The Daily Mail_ is barely one level above a tabloid here, IMO. It's all hysteria and "zomg!! your kids could DIE, you could DIE, Immigrants are scum", etc... so take this story with a grain of salt. I would bet my grandmother that Odent never said 'all men', that it is just being spun that way to get a bunch of people het up and think them homebirthin' natural birth folks are freaks.









Well - that's good to know!

Yes Nashvillemidwife - I know exactly who Michael Odent is. That's why I kept making sure the article was about _him._ I feel better knowing about the paper. I would like to hear from a reputable source about this subject and Michael Odent's thought on it. If he truly believes that men shouldn't be allowed near a laboring woman, then he hasn't attended a birth like my last two or my friend's. My friend didn't even have her husband with her, it was her brother, but she felt like she didn't want to do it without him.

I think that another critical part that is missing is the environment of the birth. I've birthed four children - two in the hospital - two at home. Honestly, when I was pg with child #3, I remember saying that I didn't really care if dh was there or not. He wasn't really helpful during my first two births - actually in the first one, I felt very abandoned and let down by him. The circumstances of that birth were a big factor in us almost getting divorced. I was pretty apathetic about him being at #3.

Then, we had a homebirth with #3, and I couldn't believe it - he was amazing. It was like he was a mind reader. He did what I needed him to do, and he was exactly what I needed. It really was an amazing difference. I was blown away. Just his presence was comforting to me. He was even more important during birth #4 because it was a very challenging birth. I would not want to birth without him. Even if we had to have a hospital birth, I would want him with me. I believe that NOW he gets birth, and he would be much better in a hospital.

I think (and yes, this is a generalization and not true for every man) that the hospital setting takes away the naturalness of birth and really makes the partners feel like they don't have a place in the birth. How integral are you really when you're saying, "Okay now, breathe, push - 1...2...3...4...? I think that many hospitals push the partner out of the picture, too. There are doctors, nurses, IV units, bed rails, small uncomfortable beds, rules and regulations, etc. Anyway, that's _my_ two cents.


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## Daniel's Kitty (Nov 18, 2006)

The second article is a lot more well written. I can actually see some good points to it. We have friends that split up when trying to make the decision to have a second.

My husband is not like that and would be so hurt if I asked him to leave. He loved watching both children be born. I know I would be terrified in the hospital if they kicked him out, it would be me and a few people I have known for no more than an hour over the time of pregnancy.

With the second I was a lot more comfortable with my midwife, but still wouldn't have traded my dh for anybody. They talk about female relatives being there, I would beg for a c-section before my mother got to be my support person.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I have never done well with most females. I don't, as a rule, find them comforting. I usually find them irritating.

That tends to be my experience, as well. I had two wonderful women with me while labouring with Aaron, and I was glad they were there. I was also incredibly grateful that dh was with me.

That's really almost my only experience with labour and birth, though. I know I absolutely want dh to be with me for my c-sections. He's the only part of the experience that I find bearable - it helps me _so_ much to have someone there who is as excited as I want to be by the baby's arrival, especially as he isn't being hindered by terror and a disconnection from his own body, and I am.

I was really surprised when I read this article. I've heard _so_ many great things about Odent, but then he talks - twice! - about all the births he's been "in charge of" and continues on to talk about how many women "need" c-sections these days. He totally lost me.

Oh - and as I said on the ICAN list...if dh walked out on me just because he saw me give birth naturally, then I'd be glad to watch him go, and would probably boot him on the butt on his way out the door. My vagina is not a sex toy, and I have no interest in a man with that view of my body.

I'm sure there are many times when a male partner shouldn't be there for a birth, for a variety of reasons - but this is one more choice that should be up to the _woman_ (and her partner - I'm certainly not a fan of the idea of "making" a man be there if he doesn't want to be and can't see how that would help, anyway), not the "expert".


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
Oh - and as I said on the ICAN list...if dh walked out on me just because he saw me give birth naturally, then I'd be glad to watch him go, and would probably boot him on the butt on his way out the door. My vagina is not a sex toy, and I have no interest in a man with that view of my body.

Boy howdy, ain't that the truth? That is some warped thinking...

-Angela


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Daniel's Kitty* 
They talk about female relatives being there, I would beg for a c-section before my mother got to be my support person.

I was almost crying for my mommy while in labour with Aaron (wanted her here, but she was sick and didn't want to bring the bug around me). However, I absolutely wouldn't want my sister or either SIL here - I'd probably shoot myself.


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## kittywitty (Jul 5, 2005)

It should be up to the woman birthing. But IMHO, if he was there to make the baby, he can be there when it comes out.


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## nashvillemidwife (Dec 2, 2007)

For the record, Michel Odent would like you to know:

_About the pages in Daily Mail, first I was not the author of the article. It was written by a journalist after an interview on the phone. Also it is probable that people just read the sensational title. In fact I have never said that men 'should not be at the birth of their child'.

Warmest regards

Michel_


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## Kidzaplenty (Jun 17, 2006)

I have not read every response, so perhaps this is repeating someone. And I missed the second article that is being talked about, so I will have to go back and catch up on that one, but wanted to just say this.

It seems to me that every reason that was mentioned for the husband to NOT be there could actually given for every other person in the hosptial room, INCLUDING the OB.

I would feel much more comfortable at realaxing with my DH than I would with a room full of strangers popping in and out at regular times, and then all rushing in and "lending a helping hand" when the time to deliver is there.

Not to mention the statement:

Quote:

For her, his presence is a hindrance, and a significant factor in why labours are longer, more painful and more likely to result in intervention than ever.
Which I find totally inaccurate, to say the least.

Now off to find the second article.


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## Fyrestorm (Feb 14, 2006)

And having a thousand strangers in the room all trying to stick a hand or two up your yoni while your in the middle of a contraction and epidurals and 10,000 interventions in a brightly lit unfamiliar hospital room has nothing at all to do with longer, more painful labor


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## New_Natural_Mom (Dec 21, 2007)

This is just one guy's opinion. I couldn't have done it without my DH. He is the best partnner on Earth.


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## cottonwood (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:

_About the pages in Daily Mail, first I was not the author of the article. It was written by a journalist after an interview on the phone. Also it is probable that people just read the sensational title. In fact I have never said that men 'should not be at the birth of their child'.

Warmest regards

Michel_
Thanks so much, nashvillemidwife. When I was reading it the Daily Mail article I was confused -- it doesn't sound like the way he writes or speaks, it is absolutist unlike his other writings on the subject, and... "It is not possible for women to birth alone"? Um -- he _certainly_ didn't write _that._ So yes, there is quite a bit of misrepresentation going on there.

In _The Nature of Birth and Breastfeeding_ (credit to Laura Shanley for finding this,) he says,

Quote:

When the mother-to-be is alone with the baby's father and he seems to really share the emotions, leaving our world at the same time as his wife -- a scene that would have been considered unbelievable fifty years ago -- it is also possible that the birth will not be too long away or too difficult. In this case, once more, nobody behaves like an observer. It is not the woman who is giving birth; it is the couple.
Which was the case for my husband and me -- in one out of my four births. Which, not coincidentally, also happened to be the most private of my four births.

In his article in Midwifery Today on the subject, he writes,

Quote:

There are many sons of men: some can keep a low profile while their partner is in labor; others tend to behave like observers, or like guides, whereas others are much more like protectors. At the very time when the laboring woman needs to reduce the activity of her intellect (of her neocortex) and "to go to another planet" many men cannot stop being rational. Some look brave, but their release of high levels of adrenaline is contagious. [...] It is often during the third stage that many men have a sudden need for activity, at the very time when the mother should have nothing else to do than to look at her baby's eyes and to feel the contact with her baby's skin in a warm place. At this time any distraction tends to inhibit the release of oxytocin and therefore interferes with the delivery of the placenta.
My response (mostly copied and pasted from a previous thread):

Quote:

Absolutely true. There is a great potential for disaster in having men take on a role that is not natural to them or to the birth process. For couples to ignore the possibility of this having an adverse effect on the process in the name of "husband-wife childbirth" as the ideal, I think is very, very foolish.

However, in addition to acknowledging that, we also need to be asking: what is it that makes these men nervous? What is it that keeps them from entering a primal place? Would their behavior be different (just as the laboring woman's often is) if there were not observers? Why is the mother sometimes apparently self-conscious and distracted by her mate and not (ostensibly) by clinical observers? What is it about the way men and women are conditioned to be with each other in various subsocieties that affects how they relate their sexual relationship to the birth process? Etc.


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## Romana (Mar 3, 2006)

This is a decision that individuals need to make based on individual strengths, weaknesses, and relationships. Personally, I cannot imagine birthing without my dh. He has been incredible and perfect partner and support during both of my (natural) births. Both births have been important and moving bonding experiences for him and for all of us. My 2 yr old dd was also present for her brother's birth, and that too was a wholly positive experience.

It depends on the individuals and their relationships. For us, it was right and strengthening and good and almost, for me, necessary (I suppose I could give birth without my dh, but it would be very difficult to do so).


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kidzaplenty* 
It seems to me that every reason that was mentioned for the husband to NOT be there could actually given for every other person in the hosptial room, INCLUDING the OB.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Fyrestorm* 
And having a thousand strangers in the room all trying to stick a hand or two up your yoni while your in the middle of a contraction and epidurals and 10,000 interventions in a brightly lit unfamiliar hospital room has nothing at all to do with longer, more painful labor









Yeah, Odent doesn't think any of those people should be there either. He's said about a thousand times that the only person who should be near a birthing mother is a motherly, low-profile midwife, who does nothing unless there's a problem.


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## Kidzaplenty (Jun 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
Yeah, Odent doesn't think any of those people should be there either. He's said about a thousand times that the only person who should be near a birthing mother is a motherly, low-profile midwife, who does nothing unless there's a problem.

I would love to find an OB like this. Even if I did plan on a UC. But sadly, I have never met one that was even remotely close.


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## Jane (May 15, 2002)

I do think it should be an option, for the father to not be present if not mutually desired. It wasn't O.K. when men or support people were excluded. It's not O.K. to demand the presence of people. There should be enough space in the world for all types of people, including those that make decent fathers but bad birth attendants.

I'm not sure how women and men are supposed to figure this out before the baby arrives - people have such strange ideas about what labor is like in general. And there is such personal variation, who knows how to predict what will happen for any one woman.

OT: my mother would make a great doula - for other people. She freaks out when I get hurt. She shouldn't come to my birth.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Apricot* 
I do think it should be an option, for the father to not be present if not mutually desired. It wasn't O.K. when men or support people were excluded. It's not O.K. to demand the presence of people. There should be enough space in the world for all types of people, including those that make decent fathers but bad birth attendants.

I'm not sure how women and men are supposed to figure this out before the baby arrives - people have such strange ideas about what labor is like in general. And there is such personal variation, who knows how to predict what will happen for any one woman.

OT: my mother would make a great doula - for other people. She freaks out when I get hurt. She shouldn't come to my birth.









:


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## accountclosed3 (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:

In _The Nature of Birth_ and _Breastfeeding_ (credit to Laura Shanley for finding this,) he says,

Quote:

When the mother-to-be is alone with the baby's father and he seems to really share the emotions, leaving our world at the same time as his wife -- a scene that would have been considered unbelievable fifty years ago -- it is also possible that the birth will not be too long away or too difficult. In this case, once more, nobody behaves like an observer. It is not the woman who is giving birth; it is the couple.

i really believe this to be the case. i completely "foresee" this being the case for my husband and I--it only makes sense.

of course, i do not know for certain, and we're both prepared for me to solo birth as well, but this is our preference, and it makes sense to us.


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## njbeachgirl (Oct 8, 2006)

Interesting.

"Of course, it would not be possible for women to give birth alone."


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## cottonwood (Nov 20, 2001)

Perhaps the OP could be edited to include the information in post #57? Sometimes people read just the OP and not the whole thread, and I hate to have people continue to assume that the article accurately represents Odent's views. People, he _didn't_ write it.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zoebird* 
of course, i do not know for certain, and we're both prepared for me to solo birth as well, but this is our preference, and it makes sense to us.









Same here, only exactly the other way around. We're both prepared for me to need him, but our plan is for me to have a solo birth.


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## janasmama (Feb 8, 2005)

This is an interesting article that should make a women with difficult births question who is at her birth. I can definitely see that there are some men who would hinder their partners birth.

I have read on the homebirth forum several times about women who have to direct their husbands during birth because he doesn't know what to do so they make lists for him. These are probably the men who should stay busy boiling water in the kitchen or something.


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## Celticqueen (Feb 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I don't buy it. Not at all.

I have never done well with most females. I don't, as a rule, find them comforting. I usually find them irritating.

My dh was my ROCK during my 31 hour labor with dd. He understood what I needed with the smallest gestures and sounds. If I had to explain my wants and needs to someone else it would have been VERY distracting to me.

-Angela

Ditto. In my birth with my first, it was sort of funny because my husband was really the most comforting thing in the whole room...

Fact is, if we're close to our husbands emotionally, they really do know us best...

I was irritated by the women.

-Caitrin


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## honeybee (Mar 12, 2004)

I'm glad I read the second article. The first one, I just couldn't believe it was coming from Michel Odent! But then I read the second article, and now it makes a lot more sense. He is basically saying that men weren't needed at birth until birth moved into the hospital and women lost their extended female support network. Makes sense.

I wouldn't choose not to have dh at our births... but after my original reflex denial reaction to everyting Odent said, I had to pause and think again. I loved having dh at ds1's birth in the hospital. He was wonderful... but I also had a doula who helped him figure out what to do, and stepped in to do things it would never occur to him to do (like get a wet washcloth for my forehead). So, the responsibility wasn't really on him to be my coach... he could just be there for me.

When we planned our homebirth, dh wanted to catch the baby. But what actually happened is that while I was laboring in the bathroom, dh was scrambling around trying to get the pool set up in the bathroom... and there were a lot of problems that cropped up, such as the hoses leaking and water spouting everywhere. Needless to say, the pool did not get set up in time... the exact scenario Odent described. So, for us the birth pool was the equivalent of "boiling water."

Dh had really wanted to catch the baby, but when the bay's head was arriving before the mw, there was a lot of freaking out. She arrived just in time, and dh gladly stepped out of the way, completely forgetting he wanted to catch!

All I really needed at that birth was someone to sit quietly near me and fetch water inbetween contractions. My friend kept trying to help by rubbing my back (I really did NOT want to be touched) and my mom asked me if I was supposed to be breathing like that.







I don't regret having them all there; they were great. And labor was progressing so fast that a train could've driven through the house and not disrupted anything... but then again, nobody got there until I was deep in transition, and when I first started contracting it was just me awake in a quiet house.

So now I think Michel Odent might really have a point. That doesn't mean I don't want dh there... but I think I'll be fine with him just coming in for the main event and otherwise, I need to find some task he "needs" to do!


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## mntnmom (Sep 21, 2006)

Dh was my support and my rock for all 3 babes. Calm collected, caught #3. I think it has been good for our marriage and for his relationship with the kids.
If a guy takes off after seeing her give birth, he wasn't real committed in the first place!!
Though he shouldn't feel obligated to be there if the couple decides its a bad idea and someone else would be a better partner.


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## barefootpoetry (Jul 19, 2007)

Bumping this cuz someone with a WordPress account needs to run and tell Hathor that Odent didn't actually write this article...it won't let me register or I'd tell her myself. She's discussing it in her latest comic and I think she needs to know. Maybe link her to this thread? I know she is a member here...


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *barefootpoetry* 
Bumping this cuz someone with a WordPress account needs to run and tell Hathor that Odent didn't actually write this article...it won't let me register or I'd tell her myself. She's discussing it in her latest comic and I think she needs to know. Maybe link her to this thread? I know she is a member here...

Done.









I'm finding this whole situation amusing since Odent's the main positive reason I'm looking to UC. (The main negative reason is birth plans.)


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

I think the ideal is to listen to the woman and do what's most comfortable for her during labor. If she wants her DH there, then he should be there with her. If she wants to be alone, she should be left alone. If she wants to be supported by a few select women and doesnt' want her DH around, that should be supported.

I think some people may think that "the baby's dad HAS TO be there" in spite of what the pg woman and her male partner are really feeling. This article may open some people up to the idea that it's OK if a particular couple chooses something other than what they're expected to want. It's not a good thing if it starts creating pressure in the opposite direction.


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## barefootpoetry (Jul 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
Done.









I'm finding this whole situation amusing since Odent's the main positive reason I'm looking to UC. (The main negative reason is birth plans.)

Thanks!







I just went and saw your comments.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 
I think the ideal is to listen to the woman and do what's most comfortable for her during labor. If she wants her DH there, then he should be there with her. If she wants to be alone, she should be left alone. If she wants to be supported by a few select women and doesnt' want her DH around, that should be supported.

I've known several Amish women who birthed without their DH. (Granted, the idea of dad being present in the delivery room is still a relatively new one, and the Amish are anything but modern.







) Mom would go into labor, and dad would round up some of the kiddos and take them into town or do something out on the farm while the midwife, mothers, sisters etc. attended the laboring mom. They'd come back a little while later and meet the new baby. No biggie! It's been that way for thousands, millions of years, and I think for many of us our brains may still be hardwired to that norm....maybe there is a good reason birth has historically been a women-only event?


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## swimswamswum (Oct 26, 2005)

My DH was my rock as well. He did everything for me. He rubbed my back, got me water, helped me move, caught DD, etc.. Our midwives were there, but they were not active. It was perfect for us.


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## forthebest (Jun 19, 2006)

I'm glad M.Odent did not say those generalized 'quotes' in the article. He is a very smart guy and had some great stuff to say about birthing moms and our place to have a respectful, non-violent birth. I haven't read much of his work but when I did read some years ago I was impressed but felt he was kinda a bit take charge like This is The Way. As for men being present during birth well I don't think men should be further seperated from birth, life or death and certainly not more absent from birthing and raising children, growing with them, I mean men are part of the process too. Men can be rocks during birth and they see their woman working hard to birth their child and can go through some process of spiritual and loving growth, maturing to take on responsability for a new life. Some men are a total hindrance during births and yeah they should avoid stressing the moms out more but deffo not all men as the mail( dreadful rag, really fascist crap)points out. I have to read some Odent now but I don't want anyone in charge of my births period, it's scary how regulated birth has become. Anyone, regardless of their gender, who is not an ally during my birth is just not worth having there but I'm also someone who quite happily and more freely would birth alone.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *barefootpoetry* 
It's been that way for thousands, millions of years, and I think for many of us our brains may still be hardwired to that norm....maybe there is a good reason birth has historically been a women-only event?

There's also been a lot of human history where men were frequently away, hunting, going to war, whatever. If dh wasn't around, I guess I'd rather have women around me - maybe - than men. I really seriously have my doubts about the pretty picture I often come across of all these women surrounding the birthing woman and being all supportive. Maybe it's a cultural thing, but it's not something I've seen a whole lot of. There are...four women I'd want anywhere near me in labour. It's possible there'd be others, if I got to know them, but as it stands, there are four.

I used to read about women having babies when I was a kid - which was before partners attending births became widespread, I think - and I dreaded the idea of having a baby, because of the missing partner aspect of it. Having the person I loved and trusted most outside pacing the floor while I was having our baby seemed...freakish. It still does. One of the many, many, many things I hate about c-sections is the enforced separation from dh (only while they place the spinal). It sucks.


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## AimeeandBrian (Jul 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I don't buy it. Not at all.

I have never done well with most females. I don't, as a rule, find them comforting. I usually find them irritating.

My dh was my ROCK during my 31 hour labor with dd. He understood what I needed with the smallest gestures and sounds. If I had to explain my wants and needs to someone else it would have been VERY distracting to me.

-Angela









that:

Looking in DH's eyes was all I wanted. I just wanted him to hold me.

My doula and midwives were too bossy and distracting for me.I was grateful they were there to reassure me that I wasn't dying and DD was okay, but I didn't need them for moral support at all. Also, most other women have not been through a homebirth or even an all natural labor, so they would have no idea what I needed either.


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## barefootpoetry (Jul 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
There's also been a lot of human history where men were frequently away, hunting, going to war, whatever.

That's true. I didn't think about that. Good point.

Quote:

I really seriously have my doubts about the pretty picture I often come across of all these women surrounding the birthing woman and being all supportive. Maybe it's a cultural thing, but it's not something I've seen a whole lot of. There are...four women I'd want anywhere near me in labour. It's possible there'd be others, if I got to know them, but as it stands, there are four.
See, it is the opposite for me. I love to think about that pretty picture. I think it sounds heavenly. Like you, I don't have that kind of support system in my life, but if I did, it would be exactly like that. As it stands, though, I'd rather birth alone or nearly alone since I don't have the tribe of women to fall back on.


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## mytwogirls (Jan 3, 2008)

I am joining in on this kinda late and I didn't read all the responses, but I read the article. I was so glad my husband was with me during the labor and delivery of both girls. He was quiet, hands off (unless I asked him otherwise) and was just there for support. I also found a lot of comfort with my OB/GYN (who is male) He was very nurturing and positive during the pushing phase and delivery and even gave both us huge hugs and a welcoming kiss to our daughters once they were both born.


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## Juvysen (Apr 25, 2007)

My husband went through the freaking out stomach ache thing mentioned in the article after my dd was born. He freely admitted it was from the gravity of the event he witnessed. He didn't eat for several days and all he could say was that it was the most intense thing that ever happened to him







I, on the other hand, was in the midst of postpartum bliss, so I was like "what, that? eh, it was no biggie" hehehehe


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Hathor wrote me a nice thank you email.


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## Belle (Feb 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MammaB21* 
Some of what he said was interesting and accurate. Women do need peace and serrenity during labor. I just don't understand why he is boxing in EVERY husband into this made up cattegory of stress filled, blubbering, panicking idiots.

I don't think this article does his point justice. I've read three of his books and its different in his books. He also says theres no place for man-midwives and he attends homebirths in the UK; he points out this inconsistancy in his book.

I don't think that I could have given the first time without my dh present. The second time I was so into what I was doing I probably could have UCed just fine with nobody there.

As a doula I have seen both supportive partners and partners I wished would go away and let the mother of their child labor in peace. One partner made me so angry at his lack of caring about the mother of his child I was relieved when he left. (before his baby was born.)


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