# Feeling Judged by DCP Intervention



## mowilli3 (Jan 7, 2007)

I posted before that my DS (21 MO) bites and was bitten several times at day care and that my DD (3 YO) has started biting him at home. It's been a bad few months. We switched day care centers so that they could be closer to me and we can have more time together, but now the new center is unhappy with us. I was very frank with them about our situation and they accepted us right away. In the week that my DC have been there, my DS has kicked or bitten 9 times. I'm so sad and embarrassed.

Now the Director and teachers have called DH and me in for a discussion of what we can do at home because the teachers are concerned about how much my DD has been scratching my DS. I am trying to help both of my DC. I've been asking for help. My mother suggests spanking my DD. She's very rebellious and easily frustrated. My MIL suggests biting my DS. As you can tell, I don't have any good role models. I feel completely overwelmed and demoralized as a parent. The center has told us that the biting should stop in 3 weeks and that it takes about 30 days to change DD's behavior. I feel that they are giving us a deadline to get our stuff together or we are out.

I don't want them judging us because they don't know us. We love our kids so much. We try to be gentle and teach them with age-appropriate guidance. I don't know what's appropriate for my 3 YO. Nothing seems to work. The only days that she's peaceful are when we are home together for long stretches. She's really responsive to my mood, and when I'm tired or anxious, she acts out. I've been both for the past 7 months because of my new job. I know that it's not all because of me, though. I don't know what to do.


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## I-AM-Mother (Aug 6, 2008)

no one looks good under a microscope...even the "best" of us.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Aw. That's so hard! I think there is a natural impulse to find a reason and to place blame. The staff at the center are having a hard time, and don't want to admit that they can't control the kids. They can blame the kids, or they can blame you, and then it aleviates their own sense of frustration/inadequacy.

Its not your fault. Its just life, and stress, and the fact that they are at difficult stages.


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## 3lilmonsters (Feb 24, 2007)

That is so hard a place for you to be in.







It's hard enough to teach our kids without the stress of a deadline.

Speaking from my own experience with children, your children should be old enough to learn not to be aggressive. I understand the need to keep the other day care children safe, but for the day care to put it on you to teach them during the few hours you have at home (assuming they're in there full time - and btw, I'm not judging, I've just btdt so I know what it's like) and expect them to carry those lessons over to day care, is just...way out there.

Is the day care willing to work with you to develop a consistent response to the violent behaviors? If they are being addressed in a very consistent manner, meaning in the same way every.single.time they happen then I would think you would see a marked improvement within the first couple of days at least.


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## nannymom (Jan 23, 2004)

I'm so sorry you are going through. I have an overly agressive daughter and I haven't put her in preschool in part because I am affraid of what would happen with her violent tendeancies.

I am also getting my degree in early childhood education. I know this is realy hard but try not to feel judged by the workers. Child care providers have seen the good bad and the ugly of family life. Siblings that fight is not the worst thing these people have seen. It sounds like they genuinly want to help you.

They have been giveing you a deadline which is unfortunate because it puts a lot of pressure on you but child crae facilities have to have policies in place to keep all of the kids safe. I live in N.C. and most daycares have a two bites and your out policy. It's really hard on parents but the centers can't be liable for biting.

Good luck.


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## fresh_water (Feb 29, 2008)

The daycare is probably telling you that it needs to stop because he is harming other kids. It's not so much a deadline as a "hey it needs to happen FAST". I don't see that as judging. I worked in a childcare as a head teacher and it's hard to deal with parents of biters/kickers/other aggressive behavior and then WE would get blamed for not being able to control them. I'm sorry, but if your kid is aggressive, that is often times NOT the daycare provider's fault. Period. Please do not blame your daycare. It sounds like they are working with you (or trying) and you need to suck it up porkchop and do the same. 30 days is plenty time to figure out why she is acting aggressive at day care and I think they are being more than fair. Work with them to create a goal of getting her to stop, and you BOTH need to stick to it. You can do it, but it's not going to happen if you just think they are out to get you. Most day care providers are not, and it certainly doesn't sound that way this time.


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## nannymom (Jan 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fresh_water* 
The daycare is probably telling you that it needs to stop because he is harming other kids. It's not so much a deadline as a "hey it needs to happen FAST". I don't see that as judging. I worked in a childcare as a head teacher and it's hard to deal with parents of biters/kickers/other aggressive behavior and then WE would get blamed for not being able to control them. I'm sorry, but if your kid is aggressive, that is often times NOT the daycare provider's fault. Period. Please do not blame your daycare. It sounds like they are working with you (or trying) and you need to suck it up porkchop and do the same. 30 days is plenty time to figure out why she is acting aggressive at day care and I think they are being more than fair. Work with them to create a goal of getting her to stop, and you BOTH need to stick to it. You can do it, but it's not going to happen if you just think they are out to get you. Most day care providers are not, and it certainly doesn't sound that way this time.


I don't think the OP is balming the day care at all she is expressing concerns over thier oppinions of her parenting which I think is understandable. As child care providers we have to be able to empathize with the parents we deal with.


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## Qestia (Sep 26, 2005)

As someone with her DS in full time care, I am glad your DCP is so proactive about protecting their children.

As far as biting, when DS did it, we always gave him something he could bite (or hit) instead, a pillow, a soft toy, etc. Have you tried that? Giving her some way to express her frustration without hurting anyone?


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## fresh_water (Feb 29, 2008)

I also think that while we empathize, we need to remember we are caring for more than just this child. We need to keep them all safe, and if that means taking a tough love stance with one who is aggressive and hurting others, so be it. I don't see where she said the day care was judging her. She said her ILs and her parents were no help, and that the day care gave her a time when the aggressive behavior needed to stop. How is that judging? Did I miss something?


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## pinky (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *3lilmonsters* 
Speaking from my own experience with children, your children should be old enough to learn not to be aggressive. .

I disagree. Her children are 21 months and 3! My dd #2 was a biter and can still be physically rough (at almost 4). Some kids just have a strong urge to express frustration with their bodies. I would say that her kids are old enough to be learning not to be aggressive, but that it's not reasonable to think that a 21 month old who is a biter to be able to stop biting ever.

It's rough. I know that the only way I coped with my dd's aggression was to stay right with her all the time--which isn't possible in a day care situation.

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time. Having been on both sides, I can say that without a doubt, it's much harder being the parent of an aggressive child than the one who's on the receiving end.


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## 3lilmonsters (Feb 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fresh_water* 
I also think that while we empathize, we need to remember we are caring for more than just this child. We need to keep them all safe, and if that means taking a tough love stance with one who is aggressive and hurting others, so be it. I don't see where she said the day care was judging her. She said her ILs and her parents were no help, and that the day care gave her a time when the aggressive behavior needed to stop. How is that judging? Did I miss something?

I think it's more about feeling judged, than actually being judged, yk? I think most of us parents (moms especially) can have a hard time when there's some way in which we're having a hard time with our children and someone comments on it. Well, I know I do at least


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## 3lilmonsters (Feb 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pinky* 
I disagree. Her children are 21 months and 3! My dd #2 was a biter and can still be physically rough (at almost 4). Some kids just have a strong urge to express frustration with their bodies. I would say that her kids are old enough to be learning not to be aggressive, but that it's not reasonable to think that a 21 month old who is a biter to be able to stop biting ever.


I don't think that it would be reasonable to expect that her 21mo will never bite again. I just think that they are old enough to learn that there are more acceptable ways of dealing with frustration than ways that hurt other children. I found that staying with my kids all the time cut down drastically on these behaviors. If this is something that the dcp are willing to work with her on, perhaps the children can be one of their 'special helpers' for a few days, enabling the worker to keep the child close for early intervention when this type of situation arises. Keeping the child with me is, in fact, the discipline technique I've used for this type of situation (as well as tantrums - my oldest was a screamer!), and it's always worked for me. It takes commitment and it can be a pain, and if the daycare has several children with these issues, it would be impossible for them to do it.

I know that some people are just more physical, but I do still believe that children these ages are old enough to start learning not to bite.


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## Polliwog (Oct 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nannymom* 

live in N.C. and most daycares have a two bites and your out policy. It's really hard on parents but the centers can't be liable for biting.

I've had children in three child care centers/preschools, taught in two, and provided classroom support to teachers at 8 centers/preschools in NC and accreditation and classroom support to 50 centers/preschools in another state. I've never heard of this as a policy in any of these high quality programs. I wouldn't keep my child in a center that had this as a policy. There are many reasons why children bite while in care.

A GREAT resource for child care programs about biting is "No Biting: Policy and Practice for Toddler Programs, Second Edition." Every childcare program should have a copy.
http://www.amazon.com/No-Biting-Prac...0541160&sr=8-2


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## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mowilli3* 
Nothing seems to work. The only days that she's peaceful are when we are home together for long stretches. She's really responsive to my mood, and when I'm tired or anxious, she acts out. I've been both for the past 7 months because of my new job. I know that it's not all because of me, though. I don't know what to do.

okay, i might get my pants flamed off my body for saying this, but...

it sounds like she needs more time with you. i know my DD is more aggressive (hitting, kicking) now that she's in daycare more time per day. it's actually one of the reasons i'm trying to revamp my schedule for next term so she only has to go 3 days per week (instead of 4 or 5).

i don't know your work situation, or your financial situation, but if your DD's behavior drastically improves when you spend more time together/she is in care less, then maybe that is what needs to happen, if it can.


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## Carma (Feb 10, 2006)

At our daycare the biting policy is that they commit to solving biting issues within 2 weeks. What they do is 'shadow' the biting child for two weeks if it doesn't stop the child is placed in another group (there are multiple groups of the same age) and eventually if it doesn't stop the child needs to leave the center. My DD has only been on the bitten side of it and I felt very bad when they call me at work to say she was bitten again, so I was glad there was some policy to stop these behaviors within some time.
I agree that it could be that she needs more time with you somehow. My DD also gets more aggressive when she gets less of my attention (when DS is sick for example).
Good luck in your new job, hope you feel more relaxed about that soon too.

Carma


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## mowilli3 (Jan 7, 2007)

OP here.

Thanks to the pps who have empathized with me. I don't think I gave the impression that I don't want to change my DC's behavior at the center or at home. I do and I've been trying lots of things to get some results. I fully understand the impact of my DS's biting on the children in the center. In fact, I moved him to a different center because _he_ was bitten more than 15 times at our old center. One day he came home with 3 big bruises on his back that his teachers told me was a rash. Finally the assistant director agreed that it looked like a bite. It took me three months to find another place for my DC, and that's really quick for where I live.

As background, my DC were in the last center for 8 months. At first they were happy. I was thrilled. My DD was singing and teaching us things. My DS, who was 13 MO at the time and had been biting at home, liked his teachers and stopped biting in a couple of weeks. After 3 months, all of the teachers had quit. Some really ignorant mean teachers replaced them. The company no longer offered the teachers benefits and the well-trained ones left. I had been in my job for 1 month and it was going terribly. The pace was faster than I could handle and the culture was completely the opposite of what I need. (Last week my manager told me that I was "too different" from them. )My DC started getting aggressive at home then. My DH and I talked to the teachers and the director of that center proactively. They brushed it all off as typical behavior and told me that I didn't need to do anything to help. I kept going back to them to try to work together and they left me out of the process entirely. I decided to move the children closer to me, if I could so that we could have more time together, so that I would be close enough to go to the center to help out with my DC.

Before we toured and applied to the new center, I talked to the director and told her our entire story. I told her that my DS had a history of biting that had stopped but returned after he had been bitten several times over the course of a couple of months. I told her that I was frustrated with the lack of a response from my past center. She told me that it was not a problem and that they could handle it.

Every time that my DS has bitten at this new center, the teachers have called me. I ask them if I should come down to the center to spend time with him. They tell me "no". I asked them for triggers and they say it's unprovoked. I know that my kids need more time with me, but until I can find another job, we have to juggle this. If they ask him to leave, I will have to quit my job. That would put alot of financial strain on us. I'm trying, and it's alot to try to sort out and juggle.


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## nannymom (Jan 23, 2004)

your dd probably does need more time with you but that's just not a luxury everyone has. You don't have right now so no point in getting too focused on that aspect of it. Focus on what you can change. It seems like you are really trying to get to the bottom of this and resolve it.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

It sounds like a majorly stressful situation! I'm sorry!

Can you take a tougher stance with the daycare? I would be worried because they know he's a biter, and they're not being proactive about it. He was "unprovoked"? How about, "no one was paying attention and another child got in his air space"? Seems more likely to me. He's only 21 months old. I have a 20 month old, and he bites occasionally. Guess when. In the double carts at Costco. When his brother tries to climb on his lap. When he's in the bathtub with his brother. He may not seem angry, but obviously someone is getting close enough to him to bite him. If they know he's a biter, then they need to be watching him, not running to the phone to call you.


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## Kiera09 (Sep 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pinky* 
I disagree. Her children are 21 months and 3! My dd #2 was a biter and can still be physically rough (at almost 4). Some kids just have a strong urge to express frustration with their bodies. I would say that her kids are old enough to be learning not to be aggressive, but that it's not reasonable to think that a 21 month old who is a biter to be able to stop biting ever.

Excuse me?

Are you saying that it's perfectly fine for a 3yo (almost 4yo) to be aggressive and rough just because they have a "strong urge to express frustration with their bodies"?

My DD goes to daycare - and luckily they have a much more rational perspective on child development. A 3yo may have an urge to act out - but they are certainly old enough to control that urge enough to hit a pillow or bite a necklace rather than another child.


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## AbbieB (Mar 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kiera09* 
Excuse me?

Are you saying that it's perfectly fine for a 3yo (almost 4yo) to be aggressive and rough just because they have a "strong urge to express frustration with their bodies"?

My DD goes to daycare - and luckily they have a much more rational perspective on child development. A 3yo may have an urge to act out - but they are certainly old enough to control that urge enough to hit a pillow or bite a necklace rather than another child.

Wow. I am guessing that your kids are NOT spirited.








Hugs to the OP. You are doing the best you can. You will work through this.

3.5 to 4.5 was really rough for DD. Temper-tantrums that were unbelievable. She would get so violent that I had to put a closed door between her and her new brother (and by default, myself.) It was really hard. I can not imagine her being in anyone else's care during this time and having to answer for her behavior.


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## Kiera09 (Sep 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AbbieB* 
Wow. I am guessing that your kids are NOT spirited.








Hugs to the OP. You are doing the best you can. You will work through this.

3.5 to 4.5 was really rough for DD. Temper-tantrums that were unbelievable. She would get so violent that I had to put a closed door between her and her new brother (and by default, myself.) It was really hard. I can not imagine her being in anyone else's care during this time and having to answer for her behavior.

I didn't say that it would be tough. But by 3 - a child is well old enough to know that you don't hit/scratch/bite/hurt other people.

There is NO excuse for it. There are plenty of gentle ways to deal with this behavior. Prevention and alternatives are the main way.

"It looks like you're frustrated and need to hit something - here's a pillow".

I did childcare this summer for my 1.5yo (when I started), 2 yo twins and a 4.5yo. One of the 2yos was a biter. But even at 2 - with vigilance - I could intercept her before she bit and give her something appropriate to bite. Learning what stressed her out meant that I could avoid situations that would lead to disaster. The 4.5yo - sometimes she needed to smack the couch. Sometimes she was overwhelmed by the 3 toddlers. So I gave her an alternative.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kiera09* 
I did childcare this summer for my 1.5yo (when I started), 2 yo twins and a 4.5yo. One of the 2yos was a biter. But even at 2 - with vigilance - I could intercept her before she bit and give her something appropriate to bite. Learning what stressed her out meant that I could avoid situations that would lead to disaster. The 4.5yo - sometimes she needed to smack the couch. Sometimes she was overwhelmed by the 3 toddlers. So I gave her an alternative.

This is exactly what I'm thinking. The DCPs should be on top of it, and should be preventing it. I agree that children should know not to hit/scratch/bite by 20 months and by 3 yos. Though I wouldn't necessarily describe my kids as spirited. But in stressful situations, the _knowing_ and the _action_ can become separated. That's where the DCP should come in.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

The 'fastest' way to deal with this is the most labor intensive: They DCP needs to shadow your child and anytime it looks like they are getting ready to bite/hit, they need to intervene and _prevent_ it. If the child is not able to make contact, they will get the message that it's not allowed much faster. If a child makes contact and then is reprimanded, the connection takes a lot longer. They've had the "satisfaction" of making contact (and satisfied whatever urge it is), and so the after effects aren't as effective.

They also need to DOCUMENT carefully the circumstances where violence is occurring. There IS a trigger, but it will take some time to find the trigger(s) so they can work around them.

I HIGHLY second the book recommendation:
No Biting: Policy and Practice for Toddler Programs

I would go so far as to BUY a copy and bring it into the center if they don't have a copy. That can give you both a plan. They have a whole chapter on "Ongoing biting" that sounds particularly relevant.

If it helps, our daughter's class had a child who bit A LOT in his toddler year (1 1/2 to 2 1/2). I think dd was bitten 2-3 times by him, and she was not his favorite 'target'! He's 4 now, and is a delightful, sensitive little boy.


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

My son is now 2 and when he was just over one, he bit. Alot. He started a new daycare (where he is now) at 13 months. He did bite there but there was another girl his same age who was also a biter. She bit him the first time and he never bit again. She continued. Its awful to see your child covered in bite marks. The daycare provider had to keep them seperated and keep the girl beside her at all times to intervene when she saw what was happening.

I think its extremely difficult to have a biter because its hard to make them understand its wrong. I understand the daycare's view of the biting needs to stop, but your kids have been there a week. First they need to get used to that big change. And yeah, it sounds like they need more time with mom, but that's also difficult while working full time.

I guess I don't have any suggestions, just know that you're not the only mom to go through this. Keep doing what you're doing, since it sounds like you are trying to change this behavior.


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## dido1 (Aug 12, 2004)

OP, (((hugs))) to you. I know how hard it is to be dealing with work pressure and care pressure. You sound like you are in a place that I was in a few months ago. I was sooooooo stressed out by my work situation that I was finding it hard to make time for and focus on my DS (now 4 yrs). He picked up on my stress tremendously and acted out through hitting, biting and scratching me. He's always been very aggressive with me when he is frustrated. It took me a long time and a lot of soul searching before I realized I needed to change a lot of things I was doing in order to help him. I had to think a lot about why he wasn't hitting and biting and school and how I could incorporate those things at home.

At school (Montessori Daycare) his teacher is very, very matter of fact about aggressive behaviour. Act aggressively and you get a time out and have to stay next to the teacher for the day. Her calm firmness really works with the kids. No anger, no shame, just a very matter of fact, consistent consequence. At home, I was trying to talk, talk, talk to DS about why he was doing the behaviour. I learned that I had to stay REALLY calm and be very matter of fact about correcting aggressive behaviour and STOP TALKING. I explained to DS that if he hurts me, I need to be safe from him and that means I need to be in a different part of the house from him until he can be gentle with me. I explained what things he could do to get out his frustrations (use words, bite his pillow, draw angry pictures paper, etc.). Then I consistenly applied that over and over and over again. It's really worked and while he occassionally has a regression, things have improved drastically.

I also began to practice better self care so that I felt like I had more to give DS emotionally at the end of my work day. I changed jobs, which was super scary. I addressed some health issues that needed dealing with. I started making time for myself a few times a month to go out on my own. I felt guilty for taking any time for me, but this has made me calmer, happier and more balanced, which DS really picks up on. He now tells me that I need to get "mommy time".

I also talk a lot to his teacher. I ask for her feedback and to know what she is doing to correct any difficult behaviour on DS' part at school and then try to compliment what she is doing. I also tell her what we are doing to resolve any issues on our end. I really see her as part of my parenting team and want to make sure we are on the same page with our approaches. Obviously, some things are different (we don't do time outs at home), but we generally have the same style of directing/correcting behioural issues.

So, the long winded point I'm trying to make is be kind to yourself, ask your care centre what they are doing to resolve the problem from their end and let them know what you are doing on your end. I always have to take a deep breathe and stamp down my "you are judging me!" reaction when any problems arise with DS in cares so that we can be a team.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nannymom* 
I don't think the OP is balming the day care at all she is expressing concerns over thier oppinions of her parenting which I think is understandable. As child care providers we have to be able to empathize with the parents we deal with.

No, it was another poster, not the OP, that seemed to be placing the responsibility on the daycare:

Quote:

I understand the need to keep the other day care children safe, but for the day care to put it on you to teach them during the few hours you have at home (assuming they're in there full time - and btw, I'm not judging, I've just btdt so I know what it's like) and expect them to carry those lessons over to day care, is just...way out there.
-------------------------------------

Quote:

The 'fastest' way to deal with this is the most labor intensive: They DCP needs to shadow your child and anytime it looks like they are getting ready to bite/hit, they need to intervene and prevent it.
This wouldn't have been feasible in the center where I worked. Not that we wouldn't have wanted to, we just didn't have the woman power.


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## mrspineau (Jan 15, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kiera09* 
I didn't say that it would be tough. But by 3 - a child is well old enough to know that you don't hit/scratch/bite/hurt other people.

There is NO excuse for it. There are plenty of gentle ways to deal with this behavior. Prevention and alternatives are the main way.

"It looks like you're frustrated and need to hit something - here's a pillow".

I did childcare this summer for my 1.5yo (when I started), 2 yo twins and a 4.5yo. One of the 2yos was a biter. But even at 2 - with vigilance - I could intercept her before she bit and give her something appropriate to bite. Learning what stressed her out meant that I could avoid situations that would lead to disaster. The 4.5yo - sometimes she needed to smack the couch. Sometimes she was overwhelmed by the 3 toddlers. So I gave her an alternative.

I agree. I think that having "spirited" children does not mean that you let them do whatever they like, especially if it hurts others. I think that you have some good ideas here - prevention and alternatives.

OP - I am glad that you are not listening to your mom and MIL! when my sister was 5 she was a biter (we grew up in a violent, aggressive environment) and my mother bit her to get her to stop. It did not work, and only caused her pain and gave her a bad memory that will last her lifetime.


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## nannymom (Jan 23, 2004)

obviously the op knows that something must be done but as the mother of an agressive child it is extremly difficult to curb the behavior. It is not the same as having a child who once in a while looses control of their behavior and lashes out.

So many times I have had people tell me just don't allow it or have you tried telling her to be gentle and it is extremly frustrating because of course I don't allow it and of course I've tried telling her to be gentle.


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## nina_yyc (Nov 5, 2006)

You've gotten a lot of good advice on this thread - I just wanted to say







. The adjustment period to a new center must be difficult for your DC, and it sounds like they were biting in the adjustment period to their old center too. Not that there's ever an excuse for biting - I know you will continue to work with your DCPs to solve the problem - but just saying from your past history it looks like there's reason to be hopeful the situation will improve given a little time.


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## aaronsmom (Jan 22, 2007)

I just wanted to give you







. My DS is extremely aggressive towards other children. Honestly, I haven't found a solution other than just keeping him away from other kids but it sounds like you don't have that option. It's really hard. I feel judged all the time because people think my DS is a "bad kids" or "devil child".







:


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## LoganBsMom (Apr 14, 2008)

SOrry you are having so much trouble. I don't know that I have much advice. When I worked in a 2 year old room at a daycare, we had a biter. He was a great kid, loved him, but he bit, lots. And almost always the same kid. And it was mostly unprovoked. The other kid would have his back turned and this little boy would leap and latch on. He was a little guy and always went for the biggest kid. Does your 21 mo old understand enough to talk about it? Maybe when it happens he needs to be taken aside for a time out talk? I know I always found DS to be much easier to reason witht than you would imagine.

Did the daycare give you any suggestions? What do they do when he bites? Is your 3yo biting as well? Do they just go after eachother, or other kids? I know its tough to do, but maybe you need to relax a little too, maybe they are picking up on some of your anxiety. Negative attention is better than not attention at all, right? Not to say you are not paying attention, but if you are preoccupied with a bad job, and stressed over the bitingl, it might be harder for you to focus on them. Is at home childcare an option if they are having trouble in a group setting? It doesn't resolve the aggression, but maybe some of the stress over the whole situation.
Hope everything works out for you.


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