# Does this make me a bad mother? NEW update #34



## snuggly mama (Mar 29, 2004)

Dd1 is heading to high school in the fall. She's currently in a small parochial school where we've been getting free tuition for 7 years. She applied and was accepted to a private, parochial high school in a neighboring town. It's a wonderful school, great curriculum -- and a $6000 price tag per year. So, we got some financial aid, but not enough to cover the full amount. After much soul-searching, dh and I feel that we just cannot afford to send dd to this school. Our public high school is good, and dd has been accepted into their honors program. All her friends are going to the public school, though some classmates are going to the other parochial school.

Aside from the financial issue (which is, frankly, enormous as dh and I are seriously considering filing bankruptcy







), we also have concerns about transportation, since dh and I both work, and all the extras such as uniforms, books, etc.

Dd hates us. She basically feels like if we loved her enough, we'd find a way to send her to this school. I've tried being patient, explaining calmly that although we'd love to send her to school #1, it just isn't realistic for us right now. We've talked about how we can continue to afford dance lessons (she's very good) and extracurriculars if we aren't spending tuition money. But none of that is enough for her, and she's being really, really difficult.

I feel awful about this, I really do. Because of some other issues in our family, dd often feels like she's not getting her "fair share", and I'm afraid this will just be the thing that ruins our relationship with her, ykwim?


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## montlake (Mar 13, 2008)

If you have explained it to her the best you can, there is probably nothing else you can do. At her age she is going to be very emotional about EVERYTHING so it may just take time for her to accept. As my grandmother used to say, it's just one of those things that she will have to "get glad in the same shoes she got mad in" because this is just how it is. Time and space and I think she will come around.


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

High school age, sit her down & show her the family finances & explain what bankrupcy is.

How much short are you for the private school? If she really wants to go, is there any way she could get a job to pay for some of the rest of it?


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## stik (Dec 3, 2003)

My kids are younger than yours, but there is a point when I refuse to entertain drama any longer. More talking is not always helpful. If she has a specific problem that she's worried about (keeping in touch with friends going to the other school, being well-prepared for college, getting lost trying to find the lunch room) you can help her problem-solve on that issue. If she just wants to kvetch about how unfair life is and how things could be different if they were different, remind her that you already discussed it and change the subject.

If you're comfortable doing so, you could use that as the opportunity to ask her to do a chore for you. Ideally in another part of the house so you both get a little break. "We already discussed that. The dryer just went off - please go fold the laundry." If you want to be more sympathetic, you could offer a physically demanding chore that would allow her to vent her angry energy. Do you have wood you need split? Or a lawn to mow or a garden that needs weeding?

Not being able to give your child everything they want doesn't make you a bad mom, even when what she wants is an expensive education. At 14, your dd still has to put up with you for a few more years and you will have many opportunities to grow together.


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## snuggly mama (Mar 29, 2004)

We have $3000 in financial aid, so we need to come up with another $3000. She has offered to get a job, but at 14, I'm not loving that idea. First, because there's not much for a kid her age and second, because I really want her to focus on school and dance and not be working during the school year.

She's really emotional about this, more so than angry. I can't describe how hard this is and how bad I feel. The truth is, I really want her to go to public school for some selfish reasons. Finances, of course, but also: her best friend's mom and I are close, and the girls have been friends since kindy. I have this image in my head of them at graduation, prom, etc. and sharing all those high school moments. Also, I can't imagine how to figure out transportation to/from school and other events. And mostly, I'm tired of being the "poor family" at a private school. 90% of the kids in her current class have all the latest clothes, gadgets, etc. They think nothing of upgrading their cell phones every other month, or shopping for a new outfit every weekend. They've got 60" flat screen TV's to connect to their 4 different gaming systems, walk-in closets, and "oh, we're going to Switzerland this summer"







I can't compete with that anymore and I'm so tired of feeling like money=love. I'm tired of explaining that we just DO NOT have the budget for these things.

I don't know if it would be the same at school #1, but based on a few things, I'm imagining it would. Uniforms are mandatory and have to be purchased through a particular vendor. We estimated that clothes for the year would run about $750 -- just for uniforms, not anything else she'd need. Plus, books are purchased like at college, so another $300-400 per year. Oh, and that doesn't include sports fees, field trips, etc. And the $750 transportation fee if we can't figure out how to get her back and forth.

Sorry for the long vent. I just really want to have her go into these high school years with a solid relationship with us, and I feel like that's being threatened in a big way.


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## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

Actually, it sounds like you've had a chance to help your dd gain some real life experience in financial decision making. I'd say that by considering the options, clearly defining your financial situation, and making a sound financial choice (which actually sounds like the ONLY choice)-you've been a great mom. This is life. You aren't depriving your child of medical attention, just private school.


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## AndrewsMother (Jul 30, 2007)

Could you get a part time job? Have you asked the school for additional aid?


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## stik (Dec 3, 2003)

The private school really doesn't sound do-able for you right now - you bring up uniforms, transportation issues, and textbooks as barriers for your family in addition to the tuition.

I think my earlier post was off-base, because I don't understand what's happening with your relationship with your dd, and I see now that you're more concerned about that than the money. How do you think attending public school is going to affect your relationship with your dd?


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## snuggly mama (Mar 29, 2004)

Stik, I think in some ways this is dd's "hill", you know? This is the thing she's using to test out how much we are willing to give to her, how far we'll willing to go for her. The thing is, dd2 has some significant special needs and has gotten a large chunk of our time/energy and money over the last years, just by virtue of need. Dd1 has often been clear with us that she thinks we're choosing dd2's needs, and frequently ds, over her own. IMO, that's not true, but it's her perspective, which makes it true for her.

Dd is convinced that the only way she can have a positive high school experience is by going to this school. I actually think some of this is about status symbol -- meaning, the parochial school is a "private school", a more "exclusive" school in some ways, and dd likes the idea of being part of that. Some of it, I'm sure, is also about being her own person, and not "dd2's sister". I think she wants to start over, in a way, and sees this as her opportunity to do that.

As far as relationship goes, I'm very worried that there's no right way to handle this and we're sort of doomed to have a miserable kid for the next 4 years. Dd has ALWAYS been a very intense, high-needs kid and she needs physical, tangible representations of affection. If we can't/won't give her this, I just feel in my heart that she won't let go of it and will be very resentful.


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snuggly mama* 
We have $3000 in financial aid, so we need to come up with another $3000. She has offered to get a job, but at 14, I'm not loving that idea. First, because there's not much for a kid her age and second, because I really want her to focus on school and dance and not be working during the school year.

Well, she's getting to an age where what *you* want about *her* life isn't always going to happen. Maybe the best you can do is share your information and experience, and then give her what support you can on the decision she makes. If she can work 6 hours a week at $10/hour, she can make the $3000 a year it takes for her to go to that school.

A neighbor of mine went to a private parochial high school, and paid her ENTIRE tuition; she got up at 6 a.m., took the bus 45 minutes to her school, got out at 3, went to her job at McDonald's at 4, worked until 10, went home and did homework until 2 a.m., then got up the next morning and did it all over again. It was just that important to her. I didn't exactly *want* to do that ;-), but I had to practically fight to be allowed to get a summer job when I turned 16, and that didn't seem right either, you know?

Quote:

The truth is, I really want her to go to public school for some selfish reasons. Finances, of course, but also: her best friend's mom and I are close, and the girls have been friends since kindy. I have this image in my head of them at graduation, prom, etc. and sharing all those high school moments.
I was best friends with the same girl for ten years. We became friends in first grade, and though we weren't always at the same school, we were like two peas in a pod. Then, in tenth grade, it just disintegrated. We still keep in touch, but it's not the same. There's NO guarantee that being at the same school will give your daughter the experiences you crave.

And this really is about *you* craving it. What's *her* dream look like? Maybe she loves the idea of bringing her friend to her school events, and then going to her friend's school events, so they each get the best of both worlds? Or maybe this friendship isn't as important to her as it is to you? Or maybe she's not thought about it this way, and sharing this fantasy of yours with her might give her some perspective on the issue?

Quote:

Also, I can't imagine how to figure out transportation to/from school and other events. And mostly, I'm tired of being the "poor family" at a private school. 90% of the kids in her current class have all the latest clothes, gadgets, etc. They think nothing of upgrading their cell phones every other month, or shopping for a new outfit every weekend. They've got 60" flat screen TV's to connect to their 4 different gaming systems, walk-in closets, and "oh, we're going to Switzerland this summer"







I can't compete with that anymore and I'm so tired of feeling like money=love. I'm tired of explaining that we just DO NOT have the budget for these things.
Again, if you haven't discussed this with her, you need to. And again, this is about what *you* want, not necessarily what's in her interests or meets her needs. Or maybe it is/does. You need to share this with her so she can take it into consideration.

Quote:

Sorry for the long vent. I just really want to have her go into these high school years with a solid relationship with us, and I feel like that's being threatened in a big way.








There's some other stuff you haven't brought up yet, that may be coming into play:

* Has she _ever_ gone to public school? She may be somewhat terrified of the prospect, and unable or unwilling to articulate that.

* Is the school co-ed or all-girls? If co-ed, is there maybe someone in particular of the opposite gender who is going to be at school #1 who she's worried about not seeing anymore? If all-girls, could she be uncomfortable with being thrown into a mixed environment?

Anyway... I get the being scared about your relationship with her. You do need to have a strong foundation there, based on mutual respect. I'm seeing a lot of _your_ reasons for wanting to send her to the public school, but they seem to be very much about your hopes, fantasies, and comfort level, and really not all that much about the financial aspects or what's in her best interests. If you don't feel like you can tell her your reasons, that's probably a sign that they're not great reasons.

One approach is to sit down and figure out what your "budget" is for her schooling... dance, tuition, required equipment, etc. Show her where money is currently allocated, where the shortfalls are, and then help her on figuring out what she'd like to do with it. She's good at dance and you want her to continue; but is *she* set on continuing, or would she be happier dropping it, maybe taking up a sport instead? Or if she's in a fairly advanced program, she might be happy dropping back to taking a class or two at the community college or whatever, just keeping her foot in that way, at a lower price so she can do other things that are important.

Spend the time and energy on supporting her on figuring out what she wants, given the constraints on your budget, time, etc. That's what builds relationships.


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## stik (Dec 3, 2003)

Ironica is presenting a very respectful, consensual approach. If that works for your family, and if your dd genuinely has the drive and the self-discipline to work her way through high school, then that's what you should do.

Sending your dd to this school is going to cost quite a bit above what financial aid will cover. Nothing you have posted suggests that your dd wants to work for her school expenses, and your statement about her wanting to see what *you* will give makes me think that she is not looking for ways to fund this enterprise herself. While your dd's needs and concerns are important, so are your family's as a whole. If your dd is pushing this to test boundaries, as you say she is, she may *need* to be shown where the boundaries are. It sounds to me like you need to find a way to let her know that your love is infinite but your budget is not.

In the real world, there's often a significant difference between what is fair and what is equitable. If you need to find a way to make things fair for your dcs, then you should look for those opportunities, but things will never be equitable. If one of my children breaks a leg, putting both of them in casts would be equitable - but it would be pointless.

I'm not in your shoes, and I don't know the nature of your dd2's needs. It sounds like your dd1 doesn't understand them either. I think you have to let go of your fear about her resentment and focus on identifying and meeting the needs of all the members of your family. From each according to their ability, to each according to their needs. Your dd1 needs to feel loved. There are ways to achieve that other than sending her to a school you can't afford. And maybe at age 14 she needs to start finding ways to feel that love other than through "physical, tangible representations of affection."


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *montlake* 
If you have explained it to her the best you can, there is probably nothing else you can do. At her age she is going to be very emotional about EVERYTHING so it may just take time for her to accept. As my grandmother used to say, it's just one of those things that she will have to "get glad in the same shoes she got mad in" because this is just how it is. Time and space and I think she will come around.

THIS, THIS, THIS!!!!! Reread montlake's most insightful post!

I have to say that a year ago - almost exactly, we were in the almost exact same situation as you are in now. Dd1 was in 6th grade and had all her life (preschool through 6th grade) gone to small schools (either alternative public or private) in our town. For 7th, I pretty much unilaterally made the decision to put her in public middle school. She was BESIDE HERSELF. Bawled, screamed, moped like it was an Olympic sport. I didn't love her. I wanted her to be miserable. She would never forgive me. That lasted a few days, then another couple weeks of worrying and talking through options on how she'd find her classes, make new friends, etc. Then she started to get excited about the positives and less focus on the negatives. I was positive about the change, even though my dp was mad (he hates to revisit any decisions - in his world, once you make a decision you never waver no matter what the circumstances).

Guess who is the happiest 7th grader you ever did see? Guess who told me - a month or two in to the change of schools - that it was the best day of her life? Guess who just hugged me and told me she loves me before going up to bed?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stik* 
More talking is not always helpful. If she has a specific problem that she's worried about (keeping in touch with friends going to the other school, being well-prepared for college, getting lost trying to find the lunch room) you can help her problem-solve on that issue. If she just wants to kvetch about how unfair life is and how things could be different if they were different, remind her that you already discussed it and change the subject.

Yes!

This will NOT ruin your relationship with her. I told my dd that I knew that TO HER it felt awful, scary, wrong - but that she felt that way because her 11 years of experience didn't include a big public school. I explained that I felt a lot of the same feelings when I went to college - after 18 years in a small (less than 2000 people) town. And how I went anyway, and had the time of my life. I explained that in my 38 years of experience, I KNEW how she felt but also how great it was on the other side of those worries. That we made this decision based on a lot of variables - for us saving the money was nice but not the primary reason we switched. I wanted her to have the opportunity to play team sports, be in band, go to the socials/dances, have six different teachers and practice organizing that before she got to high school.

And today, even my husband agrees that it was the right decision. My dd is THRILLED with her experience - both at the small schools and now at the big one. You will all be fine.


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## AlexisT (May 6, 2007)

Allowing her to pay for it herself is unrealistic on multiple fronts.

1) Working more than a few hours a week (studies show 18, bt the usual recommendation is 10-15 hrs maximum) has been shown to have a negative impact on scholastic achievement.

2) If it's an academically competitive school, she may not have the time to work, especially if she wants to participate in activities.

3) Working, period, may not be an option. Many states place major restrictions on work for 14-16 year olds. When I was in high school, very few places would hire under-16s--and that was over 15 years ago so I imagine it's worse now. Further, the job market for teenagers has collapsed in the past decade. Adults now do most of the fast food and retail jobs that we all did in high school.


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

I would be very realistic with her about your finances, and the overall costs of attending the private school (such as transportation cost, uniform, etc). Make a spreadsheet- and be sure to minus the costs of public school as well (she still needs clothes and there will still be field trips),

Once she knows the true cost - explain to her what you can contribute - and what she needs to contribute. In your shoes what you can contribute might be zero or it might be half. Can you even have a child in private school and declare bankruptsy ?- the bankruptsy trustees may legitimately have a fit. Is it fair for a child to be in private school if you are having difficulty putting food on the table?

If she has to contribute half - what is the liklihood of a 14 yr old in your area being able to make that amount? In this area it is very low. What would she have to give up? Dance? Weekends? Summer?

Once all the costs are laid out, I think there is an excellent chance she will give up on the idea. If she doesn't you will have a decision to make - let her sign up for the parochail school even though the costs may be too high for her, or play the parental authority card. The school may insist on full payment up front in which case all bets are off. It might very well be the school saying "we are sorry - we cannot accomodate you" to your daughter. They might want you to agree to pay for everything -and you cannot and should not agree to that.

Will she agree to try out public school for 3 months or so before deciding it is awful?

She is looking for some kind of sign from you that you value her and what she wants. It probably cannot happen at this point the way she wants - but the need is still there.

Is there mother-daughter stuff you can do with her (hopefullly one on one time) to show her she is a valued member of the family?


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## snuggly mama (Mar 29, 2004)

Thank you all for such great replies. They've really given dh and I a lot to talk about! For the moment, we've tabled the discussion with dd. Today is her last day at her old school, it's her 8th grade dance tonite, and we want her to enjoy it all without this issue worrying her for now.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *montlake* 
If you have explained it to her the best you can, there is probably nothing else you can do. At her age she is going to be very emotional about EVERYTHING so it may just take time for her to accept. As my grandmother used to say, it's just one of those things that she will have to "get glad in the same shoes she got mad in" because this is just how it is. Time and space and I think she will come around.

I think this is going to be my new favorite saying!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ironica* 

* Has she _ever_ gone to public school? She may be somewhat terrified of the prospect, and unable or unwilling to articulate that.

* Is the school co-ed or all-girls? If co-ed, is there maybe someone in particular of the opposite gender who is going to be at school #1 who she's worried about not seeing anymore? If all-girls, could she be uncomfortable with being thrown into a mixed environment?

Spend the time and energy on supporting her on figuring out what she wants, given the constraints on your budget, time, etc. That's what builds relationships.

She's never gone to public school, and I do think there may be some fear/anxiety around attending a larger, less "organized" school -- one where she won't know all the teachers, kids, etc. The parochial high school is co-ed, and I know that her current crush is going there next year. While I understand her interest, there's no way that's factoring into the decision for me at all. I do think you're right on in terms of finding a way to help *her* figure out what she wants, and I've taken a lot of what you said to heart as far as letting my own dreams/ideas for the future go and really hearing what she needs/wants.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten* 
She was BESIDE HERSELF. Bawled, screamed, moped like it was an Olympic sport. I didn't love her. I wanted her to be miserable. She would never forgive me.









Yes, this is dd EXACTLY!! And it's good to know that, in the end, it was all okay!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AlexisT* 
2) If it's an academically competitive school, she may not have the time to work, especially if she wants to participate in activities.

3) Working, period, may not be an option. Many states place major restrictions on work for 14-16 year olds. When I was in high school, very few places would hire under-16s--and that was over 15 years ago so I imagine it's worse now. Further, the job market for teenagers has collapsed in the past decade. Adults now do most of the fast food and retail jobs that we all did in high school.

The parochial school is extremely academically challenging, and the honors program at the public school is also very rigorous. I don't think that she'd be able to keep up with coursework if she were working any significant amount of hours, and I certainly don't think she'd be able to participate in dance or other activities.

I totally agree about not finding a job. It's extremely tough to find any job around here as a teen, and other than babysitting, there's not much for a 14 year old. She's motivated to work, but she can't do much at this age because of labor laws.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kathymuggle* 
I would be very realistic with her about your finances, and the overall costs of attending the private school (such as transportation cost, uniform, etc). Make a spreadsheet- and be sure to minus the costs of public school as well (she still needs clothes and there will still be field trips),

Once she knows the true cost - explain to her what you can contribute - and what she needs to contribute. In your shoes what you can contribute might be zero or it might be half. Can you even have a child in private school and declare bankruptsy ?- the bankruptsy trustees may legitimately have a fit. Is it fair for a child to be in private school if you are having difficulty putting food on the table?

Will she agree to try out public school for 3 months or so before deciding it is awful?

She is looking for some kind of sign from you that you value her and what she wants. It probably cannot happen at this point the way she wants - but the need is still there.

Is there mother-daughter stuff you can do with her (hopefullly one on one time) to show her she is a valued member of the family?

Dh and I stayed up late last night and made up a spreadsheet of our family budget, both with and without tuition, etc. Frankly, we're pretty screwed either way







but tuition puts us waaaaay into the negative. We printed these out to show to dd when we resume the discussion.

We've asked ourselves the same question about bankruptcy. Seems like it would be a potential problem, maybe a serious one. Bankruptcy isn't a done deal, and we're still trying to figure out something, but it is an issue for us and I don't want to deny that. Dd isn't aware of the bankruptcy discussion, nor should she be IMO, but we can talk about financial responsibility with her.

I will say that I feel much more rational about this all today. Dh and I have identified our real concerns (for me, financial, for him, transportation), and we are on the same page as far as talking to dd. In the end, she may not get what she wants, but hopefully she'll still feel like we listened, shared information with her, and made a decision that was best for everyone. I'm prepared to find ways to support her while she struggles emotionally with not getting what she wants (if that's the end result), and that feels better to me.

We are planning some mother/daughter activities this summer, as well as a few things with her group of friends, so I think that will help her feel connected -- I hope!


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

snuggly mama;13888207
We've asked ourselves the same question about bankruptcy. Seems like it would be a potential problem said:


> Hmmm...not sure. I think a 14 yr old should know you are on the brink of financial ruin.
> 
> I think it might help to put things in perspective for her - it is unacceptable to push for private school when you are so broke. But she can't know that unless she knows you are quite broke.
> 
> ...


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## bumblebeeskies (Apr 15, 2006)

I think the biggest issue for your dd is fear, and I think that fear is well-founded. I graduated from a small Christian school and most of my high school tuition was paid for. Financial aid was re-determined every year, and each time, I would drive myself crazy with worry, that I wouldn't get enough aid. Even after being at private school for one year, I couldn't imagine going back to public. It was a terrifying thought for me. What if I can't make friends, what if my current friends drift away because I'm not going to the same school, what if the place is huge and I can't find my way... I can't even imagine if I had been going for seven years. To dd, it probably feels like she's losing her family, friends, and everything she's known while in school. The dynamics and atmosphere at parochia schools are vastly different than public. Classes are small and students tend to know every one, teachers have less students and are more able to actually know them individually, and the simple fact that the school is run by certain morals, means that people are more apt to have common courtesy and understanding towards people. I say all this, not to make anyone feel bad, only to explain the differences for those who haven't experienced this type of school environment.

Have you tried to further explain your financial situation to the school? i.e. costs of care for sn needs dd2, and pending bankruptcy? Aid can be based on circumstances, and not just income. Are there any grandparents that would be willing to help pay?

If everything fails, and you just can't do it, dd will just have to go to public school. Hopefully, she can handle the transition.


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

I don't think that is particularly helpful. She'll handle the transition. Life is transitions. The worries about finding classes or making friends are ones that anyone would have in that situation, and that I'd guess most college freshman feel too. It is our job as parents to listen to their worries, and talk with them about what they plan to do about them - not to be pushed into bankruptcy over fear that our teenager can't make a necessary transition.


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stik* 
Sending your dd to this school is going to cost quite a bit above what financial aid will cover. Nothing you have posted suggests that your dd wants to work for her school expenses, and your statement about her wanting to see what *you* will give makes me think that she is not looking for ways to fund this enterprise herself.

OP stated that her DD had volunteered to get a job. I quoted that part of that reply in my post.


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## rhiandmoi (Apr 28, 2006)

I think your daughter is just learning that wanting things doesn't always make them possible. I think if you have said your piece about why she can't go to the other school, you probably should not bring it up anymore and if she wants to bring it up again, let her know that circumstances haven't changed and you still can't afford for her to go.

Then I would get together with some of the families of her friends that are going to the public school and highlighting the fact that she won't be alone, her friends are going to the school, and it's going to be fun.


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## hollycat (Aug 13, 2008)

i was a poor scholarship kid from really tough circumstances. there is ALWAYS a creative way if you want to find it. with all due respect, it sounded like your decision making was based on what is best for you and your husband, what you want, and lets make that work, and not what is necessarily best for your kid, or what she wants. and you made the decision and presented her with it as sort of final.

if my parents had done that, my life would be totally different. they turned over every stone, took out loans, asked their family for help. i ended up with a full scholarship to an ivy league university, now make literally millions of dollars, and share liberally with my mom (my dad has passed on.)


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## rhiandmoi (Apr 28, 2006)

It is not required to go to a parochial school to go to an ivy league university.


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## stik (Dec 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rhiandmoi* 
It is not required to go to a parochial school to go to an ivy league university.

This is really, really true. If an elite college is your dd's goal, there are a lot of different paths to get there.


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## snuggly mama (Mar 29, 2004)

I'm not sure she's looking at Ivy League schools just yet.

What didn't come through in my posts is that we had this discussion about the finances when she first applied to the parochial school, and we talked about what might happen if we didn't get enough aid. So, when the aid forms came in under what we needed, we talked with her. While she was somewhat unhappy, she decided (without us pushing) that the public school would be fine. She was excited to go with her friends, happy to not be wearing uniforms and eager to join some clubs.

Then, we got a second letter with some small additional aid (to total the $3000) AFTER I had already called the school and told them that we wouldn't be able to enroll dd after all. (This might be reversible, btw, but we don't know for sure). Anyway, dd saw the letter and basically said, "Oh, I lied to you about wanting to go to public. This is what I really want." Dh and I were really surprised and hurt, because she never let on during that time that she was unhappy about the public school decision. Truth of the matter was, *I* was feeling really sad about not being able to offer her the opportunity to go to the parochial school -- something I mentioned to her -- and *she* said that she was happy with the public school choice, excited to be with her friends, etc.

So we've now been back and forth about this numerous times. I know my previous posts sort of made it sound like dh and I had made this decision based only on our needs, but I don't really feel like that's true. We took into consideration her interests and needs as well as the whole family. We have 2 other children who also need an education, and we want to be able to help dd1 -- and the others -- with college expenses.

We haven't made a final decision and hopefully we'll be able to have a real conversation with dd about all this.


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## chiromamma (Feb 24, 2003)

OP-can you look into work/study for the remainder of your tuition?
Our older kids attend a small private school that has been a God send in a town where middle schools are a black hole and high schools are huge.
We are fortunate that the school is committed to economic diversity and this year, they are providing financial aid to more than 50% of their families. Because of extreme financial circumstances, similar to yours, we have very little to offer in the way of money out this year, but the school has provided our family with a lot of work study options.
I write grants, coordinate all the smaller fundraising programs and help with development. I've committed a certain number of hours a year to these duties and we agreed on an hourly value. DH is the auctioneer for our annual silent and live auction. We put a dollar value on that this year.
The school requires their high school students who receive financial aid to do work study so DD will work in the school's garden throughout the year.
Folks at our school do building repair, tech support, graphic design, teach classes, tutor in exchange for tuition dollars. I'd encourage you to approach your daughter's school about these options.
Our kids were made aware of the fact that we may not be able to swing it this year. We all agreed that DS being a student who absolutely NEEDS a small environment and is going into 7th grade would sort of be the priority to stay in the school if we had to choose. DD was ready to begin 9th grade at public. No one felt like we loved the other more. We just discussed it in terms of academic strengths and needs.
OP-your DD is old enough to know about your tenuous financial situation. You don't need to say BK...too much fear and charge around it. But you should be frank about where money needs to go. Bankruptcy is not the brink of financial ruin. It's an opportunity for people to get a fresh start. That's what it was put in place for. Perhaps if things go smoothly and your family can get ahead after filing, she can return to the private school for 10th grade.
Good luck.


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## time4another (Mar 28, 2005)

I have been watching this thread.

Perhaps I'm being naieve here but since when did the 'wants' (because this is a want not a need, school is a need and it seems like PS is a good option) of one child outweigh the needs of the whole family?

OP-if you can't find a way to afford it and keep a roof over your head and meals on the table then the option should be passed on. You have a whole family to provide for and it sounds like she's in a pretty good situation at the public school, I am not sure that the stress of going into a financial black hole for her would be the best answer.

I also agree with the others wrt her feelings about SNDD, perhaps all she needs from you is more time spent together.

I feel for your DD but honestly this is life! I may want to live on the ocean in a big mansion, but I am gonna opt for a my home in the country because I can afford it while putting meals on the table. I would not be happy stressing about affording a big ocean mansion but I could certainly find a way to be happy in my home in the country. Some day I am sure that she will look back on this and realize that you did want to give her her want, tried very hard to, but in the end couldn't. She will see this as your love and devotion to her and your commitment to the whole family.


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## AbbieB (Mar 21, 2006)

I have another perspective, having BTDT with bankruptcy.

First, let me point out that being on the brink of bankruptcy does not equal broke. I think that is a misconception.

For us, our problem was that the interest on some of my husband's debt (the result of horrible financial advice from his parents when he was in college) had sky rocketed to the point were we could never work/earn enought to be clear of them. The majority of our income was going to servicing the interest on the debt and things were snowballing. One can only budget and downsize so far. We decided that it was not OK with us to ask our children to sacrifice for mistakes made when we were young.

Have you guys looked into filing for bankruptcy now? Perhaps doing so will allow you to bring your finances back under control and then private school will not be a problem. I highly suggest consulting with a bankruptcy lawyer if you are even thinking that this could be in your future. You would be surprised what you will learn (I know were sure were.) I am not saying this is the way to go, but it could be a surprisingly good solution. FTR, I was adamantly opposed to bankruptcy until we met with a lawyer (which I did at my husbands request). He really opened my eyes about how things work in the financial world. It is not a moral or fair place.

I think that there are very valid reasons to keep your DD in private school. Contrary to what others are saying, it IS helpful to go to a more elite school. There are opportunities there that just do not exist in public school. Some of the opportunities are not ones that we like to acknowledged exist, knowing the right people for instance, but that does not mean that they are not real.

There is also quite an advantage to getting a good education. There is a difference between public schools and private schools. DH and I have both taught public school (he teaches high school right now.) Believe me when I say that your child's education is not the top priority.

I also think it is important to be in a learning environment that encourages achievement. Again, this is not necessarily public school.

I say all of things here to suggest another option. Not knowing your specific situation, I do not know if anything I have said is realistic for you or even comes close to fitting your local situation. Maybe your community's public schools are fantastic. (I would not let the no-child-left-behind grade be my guide in this, BTW.) For some reason, more than just "it's free" I bet, you decided to send your DD to private school for the last 7 years. Are your reasons still relevant?

I do think that the other posters have made very good suggestions too. You do not have to send your DD to private school to be a good parent. There are other ways to get a good education, get into a good college, and show your DD how much you love and value her.


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## WebMama (Jun 6, 2009)

She'll get over it. Encourage her to keep in contact with friends from the old school.


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## sparklefairy (May 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *montlake* 
If you have explained it to her the best you can, there is probably nothing else you can do. At her age she is going to be very emotional about EVERYTHING so it may just take time for her to accept. As my grandmother used to say, it's just one of those things that she will have to "get glad in the same shoes she got mad in" because this is just how it is. Time and space and I think she will come around.

This.

And I was thinking that if I had an extra $3000, I would be thinking ahead to college, provided that the public school was a reasonable option.


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## Denien (Jun 5, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *time4another* 
I have been watching this thread.

Perhaps I'm being naieve here but since when did the 'wants' (because this is a want not a need, school is a need and it seems like PS is a good option) of one child outweigh the needs of the whole family?

OP-if you can't find a way to afford it and keep a roof over your head and meals on the table then the option should be passed on. You have a whole family to provide for and it sounds like she's in a pretty good situation at the public school, I am not sure that the stress of going into a financial black hole for her would be the best answer.

I also agree with the others wrt her feelings about SNDD, perhaps all she needs from you is more time spent together.

I feel for your DD but honestly this is life! I may want to live on the ocean in a big mansion, but I am gonna opt for a my home in the country because I can afford it while putting meals on the table. I would not be happy stressing about affording a big ocean mansion but I could certainly find a way to be happy in my home in the country. Some day I am sure that she will look back on this and realize that you did want to give her her want, tried very hard to, but in the end couldn't. She will see this as your love and devotion to her and your commitment to the whole family.









I, too, have been watching this thread. And this pretty well nailed what I was thinking. I attended a Catholic school throughout my elementary years. But then, divorce, moving to the country, and lifestyle changes, led to me being enrolled in a public school. I never questioned my dad (who was raising me). I just accepted that things had to change, and went on with my life. We can't always get what we want.


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## snuggly mama (Mar 29, 2004)

Dd had a wonderful time at her dance, and we were able to have a respectful conversation with her about school options after the emotion of that was passed. So far, this is what we've decided:

1. I'm going to call the parochial school on Monday and ask for a 2-week extension on making our decision. All financial aid plans have to be finalized by June 30, so hopefully they'll agree. Assuming they do, then . .

2. Dd will explore some options for working that fit in with school. She has some potential leads, so we'll see. In the meantime, dh and I will work on our own budget, but we've shown the spreadsheet to dd and she knows we have no wiggle room at all.

3. Dd will find out about carpooling options, calling some of the people she knows who currently attend the school. We've told her that she has to be responsible for the transportation arrangements.

4. Over the next 2 weeks, dh, dd and I will continue to discuss our concerns and ideas about both schools. At the end of that period, we'll make a final decision that we ALL have to abide by. Dd understands that this decision is largely driven by finances, so if she can't find a workable job solution, or other financial aid options, then the school is off the table. Whatever decision gets made at that time, we've all agreed to move forward from that point with a positive attitude and willingness to work around whatever obstacles are presented.

5. If public school is the final option, we've agreed that we'll review how it's going after the first marking period (about 3 months). If things aren't going well, we'll explore options for better support at that school (talking to the teachers, guidance counselor, etc.) and will use moving to the new school as a very last resort.

While I don't expect smooth sailing during the next two weeks, I'm really, really happy to have a plan in place that respects everyone's feelings and the realities of our situation. Dd and I both took the time to really *hear* what we were saying about our worries, concerns, etc., so at least we're coming at this from a healthier place.


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## Oriole (May 4, 2007)

You sound like a wonderful mother.









I understand making sacrifices for the ones you love, but falling into a financial ruin for the whole family just to put a child in private school? Just didn't make sense.
I'm so happy to hear you came up with a plan.


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

wow...what a good update.

I hope the finances fall in place for your family - but even if they do not - your daughter will know she was heard and people cared and tried - and that means so much!

Kathy


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## snuggly mama (Mar 29, 2004)

Well, the last 10 days have been really, really hard -- much harder than I anticipated. Today, dd found out that she got an additional $1000 in financial aid, and that, combined with her job money, is enough to pay for the first year at the parochial school. So, that's where she's headed this fall.

I'm happy for her, that it's working out. But I'm sad for me. I'm having to give up some of my dreams for dd, some really big ones actually, and it's painful. Telling her friends' mothers was really hard, especially since we had pretty much told them that she'd be going to the public school. Most of them think we're kind of nuts, and they also think we've been bullied by dd. It's hard.

Hard, too, because dd knows that all we're promising right now is that she can do freshman year. She knows that, come next spring, she may have to transfer to the public school if financial aid doesn't cut it. Knows it, but doesn't fully understand, I think. Dh feels really strongly that we need to let her do this, need to let her see how it all plays out, need to let whatever happens happen and be there to catch her if it all falls apart.

I'm giving myself today to feel sad and sorry for myself, and then I'm going to move forward with a positive attitude and support for dd.


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## Just My Opinion (Nov 26, 2008)




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## Labbemama (May 23, 2008)

How terrific that you got extra aid and your dd found a job! I think that really shows her investment in this plan. I think if she puts in her own hard earned money she will either appreciate the opportunity more or put up less of a fight when she decides hey it's easier on me to go to public school. Whichever, either could be good for her.

I was wondering if she works will her income be counted as family income for next year's financial aid and reduce her award package for next year? Just something I wonder about as my teen dd is looking for a job.


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## darcytrue (Jan 23, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *montlake* 
If you have explained it to her the best you can, there is probably nothing else you can do. At her age she is going to be very emotional about EVERYTHING so it may just take time for her to accept. As my grandmother used to say, it's just one of those things that she will have to "get glad in the same shoes she got mad in" because this is just how it is. Time and space and I think she will come around.

I agree. I got mad at my parents about everything when I was a teenager. It didn't matter if anything turned out okay in the end, I just wanted my way.







I can only imagine how I would have been in this day and time with the internet and cell phones.

Is it possible for your DD to attend school # 1 if you completely cut out all of her extra curricular stuff? You mentioned that briefly. If so , then I'd tell her that she can choose one or the other. She might see it more clearly if she has to cut out her fun time or social time outside of school and see that she has a bit of a choice in the matter.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snuggly mama* 
I'm happy for her, that it's working out. But I'm sad for me. I'm having to give up some of my dreams for dd, some really big ones actually, and it's painful.









That's part of letting our kids grow up. What really matters are HER dreams, not your dreams for her.

I've got a similar situation with DD1 and a private school for next year, when she'll start high school. I'm still waiting to hear if we can get enough financial aide to send her- otherwise, she'll have to go to public school. In a lot of ways, it will be easier for me if she goes to public school. I'm nervous about the long hours she'll have to keep and the long commute. But these are things SHE wants, and I won't hold her back.


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## Cherie2 (Sep 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 







That's part of letting our kids grow up. What really matters are HER dreams, not your dreams for her.

oh, I thought she meant her own dreams for dd's dreams...


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## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

I hope this works out well for your dd. I have to admit, I was of two minds on this issue. a part of me thought that the opportunity was presenting itself to involve your dd in making realistic choices based on the financial realities and needs of an entire family. I also wondered if her insistence on private school was fear based, as it can be hard for some kids to adjust their thinking from private to public. On the other hand, you quite possibly have an incredibly motivated dd who is willing to put the work in to get what she sees as valuable to herself and her fuure. Her persistance may server her very well!

Good luck.


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## papayapetunia (Feb 6, 2006)

That's so awesome that you allowed her into the decision-making process and that you've found a solution together, at least for the first year. I remember going from private school to public school. It was really scary and tough at the time. Of course I got over it, but it's made me see how much empathy my girls need. Being a kid, being an adolescent is hard. I had the opposite situation of my dd wanting to go from homeschool to public school, and it wasn't what I wanted, but yeah, her dreams are important to me, so now she goes to our neighborhood public school and loves it. Having it be her choice has been really amazing. She gets up every morning without hassle, gets ready, does her homework right after school, etc. Kids really thrive when they are allowed to help with making choices about their lives.


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## Pinkalicious (Jun 10, 2009)

I'm glad that you were able to make this work. I think it's admirable that your DD is willing to work for her education. She will appreciate it so much more!

Just a tip ... have your DD look into work-study at school. Our local parochial high schools offer work study. Paycheck comes in the form of a tuition reimbursement voucher which you turn in and they deduct that amount from the tuition that you owe. Your DD might be able to do this in conjunction with (or instead of) her current job. In our local parochial HS's, you can do work study in the summer and throughout the school year.

Good luck to you & DD!


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## snuggly mama (Mar 29, 2004)

Just wanted to let everyone know how much I really appreciated all the thoughtful advice/replies. Dd is so very excited to be going to this school, and I'm feeling really happy about the decision now that it's all finalized. For me, this was the first real "letting go" I've had to do, and while it was really hard, it was also incredibly important in helping me see dd as a young adult and not as a little girl.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snuggly mama* 
Most of them think we're kind of nuts, and they also think we've been bullied by dd. It's hard.


This is a typical response to the AP parent: "you're spoiling that kid!" But the rewards of letting kids be themselves (and taking them seriously) are great. You just have to ignore the "nay-sayers."

Whether or not it works out financially beyond this year, your dd has been taken seriously by her parents. And that's wonderful.


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## Sailor (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snuggly mama* 
Well, the last 10 days have been really, really hard -- much harder than I anticipated. Today, dd found out that she got an additional $1000 in financial aid, and that, combined with her job money, is enough to pay for the first year at the parochial school. So, that's where she's headed this fall.

I have no kids yet, but I wanted to share a bit about my partner's past. His father is a VERY practical/realistic guy. He doesn't understand art at all, and wanted his son to get a "proper" education so that he could have real life prospects after high school and college.

My partner, on the other hand, wanted to study art. He wanted to go to an art high school (a private one). His parents had no money to send him to it, and his father refused to enroll him in it.

My partner pretty much ignored his parents, and, at age 14, got himself a job, a partial scholarship, and enrolled himself in the art high school. He took the public bus (an hour ride) to and from that high school daily.

Right after he finished that high school, he got a full scholarship to one of the best art schools in the world.

It took him a looooooong time to forgive his dad for never supporting his dream.

I know your situation is different in that it doesn't sound like your daughter has found her "passion" yet in terms of her life. Still ... I just thought I'd give you a lot of kudos for helping your daughter do this, for supporting her, for allowing her to try. You sound like a really great mom!


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## StarJune (Jan 11, 2007)

I am happy to read of your update. As I was reading through the thread I had planned to say that I would do whatever it took to make it happen. I think that education is _really_ important and making it top priority in the finances is significant. I think that long term it will be a great decision.


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## Emerging butterfly (May 7, 2009)

Your daughter is at an age where everything is drama. I don't have a daughter myself, but I have friends with teen girls...and I used to be one.

My eldest son always wants to have whatever he perceives as "the best". It goes along with his being bi-polar...the narcisissim...but we have had to be strong with him. We make sure he has nice clothes, good food, a comfy though small house, and lots of love. Other than that....it's minimalistic.

He is embarressed that he can't afford to live in the dorms at the University with his friends. He is embarressed that he doesn't have a fancy car (I will add that he doesn't have a licence because of a brain injury that slowed his processing speed...) He is embarressed that his parents are artsy and hippi-ish, and pleased that his dad is a therapist and author (adds bonus points for him as a "success"), embarressed that his mom is younger than most other moms he knows, and that she is short and plumpish. Embarressed that he has so many little brothers.

Basicly...I can't please him most of the time. I set my limits, I give him what is reasonable...I inform him that he must get good grades in college or his financial aid will be gone which will affect HIM, not me.

Your kiddo is not being realistic, and is LUCKY to have dance lessons at all. That is a wonderful opportunity for her...many kids don't even have that. Dance lessons are pricey. My eldest was a gymnast, and as he got older, he became the janitor on the weekends for that gym just so he could continue going. He was embarressed that all the other guys parents were so wealthy, but it was GOOD for him. No doubts about that.


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