# grades (w poll)



## Robert Goodman (Mar 13, 2006)

I was inspired to start this by another thread. The poll should be answered only by those over 30 -- the older the better, but I have to have some cutoff on the low end.

Robert


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## Elvirnon (May 4, 2005)

I'm 33. I had an undiagnosed learning disability during my elementary and high school years. My parents heaped years of punishment on me because I wasn't "working up to my ability". My grades were crappy and my stanford test scores were very high. The only thing it did was completely turn me off of school. I spent a year in college before failing out - for the first time ever, nobody was punishing me in order to get me to do schoolwork, and so I didn't. I still don't have a degree. I wonder if I would if I hadn't been raked over the coals for a decade straight by the time I graduated HS. (For what it's worth, my mediocre grades - plus high SATs - were enough to get me into the colleges of my choice. I never regretted not making higher marks, except for the punishment issue.)


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## Iris' Mom (Aug 3, 2007)

I did very well in school, but did not fare too well in other areas. Having good grades preserved my self-esteem. I went on to good colleges and jobs, and I don't think I could have done it without my grades. I've met a lot of people who have come as far or farther who were mediocre or poor students, but most had something else that I felt I lacked: charisma, self-confidence, "street smarts," good looks, connections, personability, humor, etc.


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## pumpkin (Apr 8, 2003)

Getting good grades has been crucial to my success.
I got scholarships, the opportunity to teach while still an undergrad, awards, and admittance to a prestigious graduate program. I had always heard that grades didn't matter once you were an adult, but time and again, my grades from when I was a kid have come into play. I'm not often asked for my actual GPA, but my membership in certain organizations, and the particular scholarships I received all carry a certain amount of prestige. I've flat out been told that I got an interview over someone else because of that. I also would not have been admitted to my graduate program without good grades, and that program led to critical contacts and authorships.

My DP is a high achiever with low grades. He had health problems while in school. It hasn't truly hurt his ability to find a good job, but even now, he still has to explain his low GPA to potential employers, who surprisingly, still ask this information of people who have been out of school for over a decade. Thankfully his excellent references and stellar job experience make up for the academic issues.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

They didn't have any impact on me at all.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

I did excellently in school and college. It had absolutely zero impact on my life after school. I'm 35, but I would have voted the same at age 22.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I did very well in grammar school until the last two years, which I barely past. I don't remember that, though.







I did well in college when I finely got there at 28 but not what I would consider great. I graduated magna something or other. I can't even remember now.







I got a well paying job after college based more on who I knew than what I knew. I'm now a SAHM and the only way my life could be any better is if my dh didn't have to go to Iraq anymore. My grades as a kid don't have anything to do with the adult I've become. I'm 37. My emotional well-being or lack thereof has had much more of an impact at any given moment in my life.


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## MillingNome (Nov 18, 2005)

I can't answer because I don't know. Maybe life would have been better, maybe not. And how do you define better? Right now, I am married to someone I love and loves me, have two wonderful children, feel my job is helping other people overcome their problems, am at peace with my family and past. I wish I have more money but other than that, I am not sure what would make it better, kwim?


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I can't answer the poll - too simplistic. In order to get better grades, I would have had to be a completely different person, without the depression issues, social phobia, etc. that ruled my high school years. I think I'd be happier now if I'd had better grades...but not because of the grades. I'm 39.


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## kittywitty (Jul 5, 2005)

Why the age limit?


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## Meg Murry. (Sep 3, 2006)

I'm 40. I got fantastic grades in English and crappy grades in everything else for a number of reasons. I had no idea how many careers I was shutting down for myself by not learning or caring about science and math, especially. I strongly believe I could have had a reasonably good career in the sciences if I'd been at all encouraged, but we all know girls aren't good at science.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Meg Murry.* 
I'm 40. I got fantastic grades in English and crappy grades in everything else for a number of reasons. I had no idea how many careers I was shutting down for myself by not learning or caring about science and math, especially. I strongly believe I could have had a reasonably good career in the sciences if I'd been at all encouraged, but we all know girls aren't good at science.

I got pushed heavily on math and science. In fact, I was given a very strong impression that I had no right to _not_ pursue a career in a math-related field, because I was gifted at math, and owed it to all women to prove that we could compete. I _loved_ math, but I hated being pushed like that.


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## Mama Dragon (Dec 5, 2005)

I'm not going to answer the poll cause I'm 28, but I will post and say nothing would have changed had a gotten better grades or even stayed in school. I got my GED when I was pregnant at 16.


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## Meg Murry. (Sep 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I got pushed heavily on math and science. In fact, I was given a very strong impression that I had no right to _not_ pursue a career in a math-related field, because I was gifted at math, and owed it to all women to prove that we could compete. I _loved_ math, but I hated being pushed like that.

Maybe you and I should have pulled a _Parent Trap_ thing and switched houses for the summer.


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## Tinas3muskateers (May 19, 2004)

I am 34, dropped out in the 10th grade and got a GED shortly after I dropped. I never went to college till I was 30. I did go to beauty school ( no i didnt drop out hehe)

Had I cared about my education I wouldnt have had to work so hard to be wehre I am now. I may have gotten here 6 or 7 years earlier.


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## Robert Goodman (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dnw826* 
Why the age limit?

Because I thought if some people were still too close to school age, they might not give the same answer they will after some more time.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I can't answer the poll - too simplistic. In order to get better grades, I would have had to be a completely different person, without the depression issues, social phobia, etc. that ruled my high school years. I think I'd be happier now if I'd had better grades...but not because of the grades. I'm 39.

In other words, if you'd been happier you would have gotten better grades, not the other way around.

Although, from what you described I wouldn't make it so simplistic. It was untreated or undertreated mental health problems, not just "unhappiness." So if you'd been healthier you might have gotten better grades.


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## Devaskyla (Oct 5, 2003)

I got great grades in junior/senior high school. Not valedictorian grades, but I was on the honor roll every semester. I did reasonably well in university, but couldn't be bothered to go to class a lot of the time (untreated depression and anemia, plus...well, i just seem to be 'lazy'). I have a BA degree and I've been unemployed since graduation, not by choice for the first few years. I had absolutely nothing going for me in school other than my grades, which I never had to work for.

I put no, but actually thinking about it, I might be happier/have a better life if I'd at least had to work for my grades. I hated school and, despite the grades, thought it was a pointless thing to do.

(i'm 33, btw)


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## lovebug (Nov 2, 2004)

not 30 yet so i did not vote.

but i will say, im in my 20s and thankful that i got good grades


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## AllisonR (May 5, 2006)

I'm 40 and I voted no (I had mostly A's and B's) because I went to Parsons (Art university) - where my portfolio and art samples counted more towards entrance than my grades. However, I was always really bad at simple math - was grounded and punished repeatedly in 3rd grade for not memorizing my multiplication tables. This had the effect of turning me off to math, and actually I could have been really good at it - I enjoy higher math. So I wished it would have been different, esp. since I am in computer tech and programming now - it would have helped doing better in math. The grades themselves wouldn't have made a difference. I probably still wouldd have been in an art college, even if I had excelled at math aand science.


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## Jennyfur (Jan 30, 2007)

I'm nearly 38, and getting good grades and graduating summa cum laude from college contributed greatly to my success.


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## Elvirnon (May 4, 2005)

There seems to be a divide between those of us who simply didn't care about schoolwork - ie. slacked off a bit - and those of us who did learn/wanted to learn, and just weren't able to make good marks.

Though I never finished college, I assume that my college grades would have had more of an impact on my career (if I had one - I'm a SAHM) than my elementary or high school grades. I've never heard of an employer caring about any pre-college GPA.


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## dharmamama (Sep 19, 2004)

At this exact moment, from the outside my life probably wouldn't look much different if I hadn't had high grades in hs and college. But from the inside, I think it would feel different.

In my pre-married, pre-kids life, having high grades and graduating very high in my class opened the door to more choices than I would have had had my grades been poor. Having a high GPA and class rank from high school opened up college opportunities for me. Graduating summa cum laude and as the outstanding graduate of my major in college opened up post-school opportunities for me. I was able to take my pick of colleges and programs, I was able to travel all over the world, and I was able to take my pick of job offers. I have the life I have now AND all the experiences I was able to bring with me.

I have one child in school (the other two are homeschooled) and, while we have explained to her that high grades do open up opportunities, in the end her grades are _her_ grades, and I don't intend to stress about them.

dm


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## <~*MamaRose*~> (Mar 4, 2007)

I did not complete hs the first time around. I went back to finish everything up when I was 19 and started college when I was 22 with a child that was schoolaged.

I honestly believe that if I had stuck with it the first time around that I would have probably chosen to go to university instead of college. My college diploma did allow me a hospital management job earning just over 50k but if I had taken a more indepth college or university program who knows what I would have accomplished.

So to answer the poll: I voted yes, but there are other factors that need to be taken into consideration that aren't covered in the choices.


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

35.

My grades were a part of my driven, a type personality. I think I would have had to have been a _different person_ to get different grades.

I voted. I am not sure I should have.

For me, good grades gave me the confidence to apply to University, which gave me the degree I wanted, and the confidence to apply for better jobs.

This (education is the path to all good things) was the line that was presented to me, and i swallowed it - hook, line and sinker. It also worked for me









However, there are many people who do not need good grades to give them confidence - and have a fine life.


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## mamallama (Nov 22, 2001)

I got my first B in 7th grade, my first C in 9th grade and my first F in 10th grade. I was preoccupied by an assault on my self esteem. Typical story.

By 12th grade, I barely graduated. Grades were fine, honor roll even, attendance was the issue. My self esteem had recovered. I realized that the problems I was having were a symptom of a pervasive societal sickness--it wasn't me at all!

I'm 33, and I have an awesome life! I've realized that the good life is a journey (not a destination,) and the only reliable measures of success are those I determine myself.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

I'm in my 40s, and no.


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

What grades do you mean? My grades during my undergrad years were very important - I would not be where I am today without them, which is, um, grad school...

I dropped out of high school and my grades went from all A's to F's, and much of my elementary school years were at an ungraded hippie school, so those grades didn't matter...

dar


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 
In other words, if you'd been happier you would have gotten better grades, not the other way around.

Although, from what you described I wouldn't make it so simplistic. It was untreated or undertreated mental health problems, not just "unhappiness." So if you'd been healthier you might have gotten better grades.

Yes - that sounds about right. Some of it was the whole "bored & gifted" thing...but I was in no kind of mental shape to deal with any of it. I _definitely_ had untreated (I'm guessing pot doesn't count?







) mental health problems.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamallama* 
I've realized that the good life is a journey (not a destination,) and the only reliable measures of success are those I determine myself.

Sooooo true.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

I said yes, because if I wouldn't have gotten the good grades I did I wouldn't have gotten into the college I did and made the close, close freindships I did, and met my husband, and had the kids I have.

So yeah, I think it would have been worse. Cause I love my husband and kids to pieces, and any one thing changing would have led me down a different path.

BUT if I wouldn't have gone to the college I did, and met a different husband, and had different kids I probably would have been happy, just in an alternate reality for me. So maybe my answer is actually "No.".







. Hmm.


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## Sijae (May 5, 2006)

Well I'm 29.5 so I didn't vote but grades never had an impact on my life. Of course I was unschooled for the most part







I did take a couple years of college and got 2 B's and the rest were A's. That had no impact on my life either except to prove to me that college is easy.

Every person in my family who is financially successful and happy with their life is earning money doing something they taught themselves and work independently (including me).

Laura


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

I'm 38. I voted no. I worked very hard to get myself through college. The funny thing is, I didn't start receiving good grades, and self-empowerment, until I moved far away from home. Receiving good grades throughout K-12 school would no doubt have made a better life for me _then_ but not now. I love my life. I can't see how good grades in school (not college) could have helped me get where I'm at today.

I think my life would have been much easier if I had more parent support and encouragement throughout school. I was a lost child with a very stressed out and preoccupied single mom. If I had more support and encouragement, and higher expectations placed on me, then I would not have only received better grades but, better yet, I would have grown up more confident, aware and secure. Self-empowerment and self-knowledge is far more important than grades. Grades might or might not be just a tiny reflection of that.


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

I'm 31

I don't think my life would be better or worse if I had gotten worse grades.

I didn't study until midway through Grade 10. I didn't need to, I was a straight A, 90+ student. In Grade 10 my grades dropped after the first term(we had 4 then) due to something that happened to me & I stopped caring. In subjects that I did like I still had really high marks, subjects I didn't(history & physics but nobody was doing good in physics.lol) they were lower(70's to low 80's). In Grade 11 they started going up again.

The only thing I would have changed would be re-doing calculus. In Grade 12 those us of who were good in math(about 11 or 12 of us) were a test group for Calculus. We did it correspondance with a teacher who was learning it along with us. NONE of us passed, or even came close to passing. It was really sad actually. I would like to re-do that just because.

DH is 32. He has his Grade 9, 1 or 2 classes of Grade 10. He makes more money than his brother(finished grade 12) & sister(finished grade 12 & went on to hairstyle school)


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## darkpear (Jul 22, 2003)

If I'd made better grades I wouldn't have the student loan debt I have, but that's about it. I don't think having scholarships (which is what better grades would have gotten me) would have made me any less likely to drop out of college.


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## Robert Goodman (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dar* 
What grades do you mean?

Any.

Quote:

My grades during my undergrad years were very important - I would not be where I am today without them, which is, um, grad school...
Then my poll would only "accidentally" include you. I wanted to exclude people who are close to school, and you're still in it. I'd've made the grade cutoff even older, except I think the demographics here would severely limit the number of respondents.

I teach college as an adjunct, and I tell my students college is a racket. School in general is a racket that people have been sold a bill of goods on. So I see a post complaining that one's child should've gotten a better mark in some course, and I say, what difference will it make in your life? So why sweat it?

I'm highly educated, and severely underemployed, unemployed right now, about to go broke. I try my best at everything, but I don't recommend that anyone pay att'n to grades, even the grades I give them.

Robert


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## Robert Goodman (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *darkpear* 
If I'd made better grades I wouldn't have the student loan debt I have, but that's about it. I don't think having scholarships (which is what better grades would have gotten me) would have made me any less likely to drop out of college.

Heh. I was just thinking that if I'd've gotten much worse grades, maybe I wouldn't've gotten into Columbia U. (for which I did get a Regents scholarship that paid a tiny fraction of the bill) and then into Chicago Med., and I wouldn't've incurrred the debt that I'm scheduled to finally pay off in 2 more months! (I'm 53.)

Robert


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Good points Robert. I agree that way too much focus is placed on school (traditional schooling anyway) and not enough on life. School doesn't reflect life unless we are raising a nation of obedient apathetic indoor drones. Which I am not and I am doing everything I can to make sure my daughter is not. Once most kids get out of school, they have no idea what to do with their lives. Sure they may be great at writing, reading, and math, and perhaps science (though not in the terms of a realistic "life is science" kind of way) but do they know their strengths beyond subjects? What do they know about the real world and how to function in society?

FWIW, grades (in dd's case) have helped (and harmed) her confidence. She was homeschooled 2-3 years ago and when she went into 4th grade public school last year she was given a false very low test score (NCLB standardized testing, which she DIDN'T take). Even though I faught it intensely, it still affected her teacher's opinion of her and she didn't score any higher than a "meets proficiency" (they don't give ABCDF grades anymore, just "exceeds/meets/or below" proficiency). Her confidence level was low all year. We just got back her scores from last year's testing and she exceeded proficiency in all areas. So now she is receiving higher grades and her confidence is booming. It's kind of sad but I have to admit out of something horrible came a positive (albeit after a negative).

Now if only people would wake up and realize that schooling needs to dramatically change. Even Hillary Clinton (and she is the ONLY candidate that even alludes to something being wrong with our educational system) stated that, even though we are all "experts" in education (because we've all been there), schooling hasn't changed along with the rest of society.


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## MillingNome (Nov 18, 2005)

To add to Mother Sunshine-

We need to take a serious look at how what we teach our children (society as a whole teach the next generation), how we teach it, where we teach, and how we quantify what was learned. Grades bare little relationship to what we hold as long-term memory. For myself, I remember and know what I am passionate about (not that you shouldn't end a sentence in a preposition). Sure I passed chemistry and have some (very) vague idea about it. Ask me about something specific having to do with it and you're going to get a very blank look. Not my passion.

I am still very torn on the whole idea of grades though. My dd does awesome in school- almost straight A's. And yes, I am proud of it. But when I look deeper into it, I wonder why. It gets to a point where it looks too much like Pavlov's salivating dog. I get the feeling that at the end of 12 years of schooling, no more has been achieved than well trained worker bees.

I want my dc to be creative, passionate, morally just, confident, flexible, questioning and able to follow _their_ dreams. They have thing to learn and a base of knowledge to gain in order to do that. I just don't know if getting good grades is what will lead to that.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

I was a straight A student (OK, I got one B in college that I richly deserved!)

I am now a university professor. Grades were crucial to my getting scholarships and into grad school.

Two caveats though:
1. I'm GOOD at school. It's why I'm a professor. I LIKE to study. So it wasn't a hardship to me. It's something I enjoy.

2. There was very little pressure from my parents to get straight As. I was internally motivated to do so, because I liked school, and I had success (see #1). What they expected was for us to do our best. And that varied a lot among their 5 kids.

My parents did an excellent job of instilling in us the idea that grades were not the end all and be all. They were just one piece in the whole process of learning. They encouraged us to choose our professions based on what we were interested in and wanted to do, and not on some external standards, or what might earn money. So, when my sister switched from business to sociology, they didn't bat an eye. When I switched from pre-med to German, same thing. My brother went to school to be a radio announcer. One of my older sisters pursued dance quite seriously while in grad school for biology.

So, while MY life would have been different had I not gotten 99% As in college, the same is not true for my siblings.

As a professor, I spend a lot of time reminding some students that a "B" is a very respectable grade. (And others that a D+ is not!)


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## dolphinkisser (Dec 26, 2003)

I am 47. I was a C average student at hs( i tried hard). In college things got together and i enjoyed learning the subjects so i suddenly got straight A's. In the long run the grades did not matter...as long as i graduated and got my teaching certificate..it would be make me happy. I love being a teacher and it did not matter what grades i got to get to this day...even if i passed through the skin of my teeth. I love teaching and it is the same teaching certificate whatever grades i would have gotten.


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## BedHead (Mar 8, 2007)

I'm 42, and I won awards for academic achievement all through school, so I voted no. With the grades I got, though, I could have done much more with my career than I ended up doing.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Robert Goodman* 
I'm highly educated, and severely underemployed, unemployed right now, about to go broke.

Whereas, I barely graduated from high school, have no post-secondary education (except some community college courses in office skills) and am doing fine. If I hadn't stayed with my ex as long as I did, I'd own a home in my area (was already putting money away for that at 21), which is something most of my better-educated former classmates can't say. I supported myself, my ex and my son for years. Until I became a SAHM, I'd worked steadily for 14 years - and every supervisor I've had has referred to me as "the best employee I've ever had".

There's something fundamentally out of whack in the schools and our approach to them (in North America - I'm not in the US), but I can't pin down exactly what it is.


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## Laggie (Nov 2, 2005)

I got excellent grades in high school with little to no effort. Not straight A's, because I was never willing to try that hard, but always on the honour roll, took french immersion, advanced english, etc.

After high school, it was a big shock for me to discover that those great grades meant absolutely nothing in the real world. Having graduated with high marks didn't make me qualified for better jobs, either. It was difficult, as I was the first person in my family to finish high school and I guess I expected that to actually mean something.

Then when I went to college I discovered that, once you start taking college courses, your high school grades don't count for anything anymore. At 18, that just made it seem like I had wasted 5 years of my life. (yes, that's my melodramatic, angst-filled teenage self talking.)

I did get a technical diploma, but now work in a completely unrelated field. I got this job with no experience, based on a friend's recommendation. So no, good grades definitely did not improve my life.


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## RedWine (Sep 26, 2003)

Right or wrong, having straight A's helped tremendously -- I don't think I would have gotten my merit scholarships with low grades. I went Ivy League for grad school and didn't have to pay a penny (for four years!).


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Well, my grades allowed me to get a scholarship, and yes, that was a major factor in being able to graduate from college.


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## captivatedlife (Aug 16, 2006)

I voted yes.

I received a scholarship based on my gpa. There's no way I would have gone to college otherwise. other than that. I don't think so


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## Robert Goodman (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *captivatedlife* 
I voted yes.

I received a scholarship based on my gpa. There's no way I would have gone to college otherwise. other than that. I don't think so

You and others have answered that way, but that means that you must think missing college would've made your life worse. How?


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## <~*MamaRose*~> (Mar 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *captivatedlife* 
I voted yes.

I received a scholarship based on my gpa. There's no way I would have gone to college otherwise. other than that. I don't think so

Totally just wondering about this as it seems to be a somewhat common comment. Why was a scholarship the only way you could go to college? I went to college without a scholarship







.


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## ShawnMarie (Oct 10, 2007)

I'm 37 and voted NO. I graduated from college with honors in 3 1/2 years - an A student all the way and I'm doing the same job as three non-college graduates. We all make much above the norm for our area with a good company and we have excellent benefits and about as much job security as anyone can have. So my income, and work experience, have not benefited from good grades.

I am divorced and no amount of good grades kept me from marrying "the perfect man" who ended up becoming an abusive husband. So my grades did not help my personal life either.

From my perspective, my grades have had very little impact on my happiness. Perhaps they have even caused me more unhappiness as the dream I was led to believe by my parents (go to school, get good grades, life will be easier for you) turned out to be a bunch of junk.

As my daughter struggles through school I am reminded that what matters is if someone is honest, dependable and hard working. Do your best and that is all anyone can hope of you.

There are things that can't be taught in schools that will take a person much farther in life that a bunch of As and a piece of paper from college. Integrity is the one that first comes to mind. Our society is seriously lacking in integrity.

So, that's a No from me.


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## Jennyfur (Jan 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Robert Goodman* 
You and others have answered that way, but that means that you must think missing college would've made your life worse. How?

In college, I learned how to think analytically. Essentially, I learned how to learn, and that has helped me throughout my adult life. Also, I had the opportunity to examine my views critically under the tutelage of experienced professors, and that was eye-opening and life-changing.


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## Robert Goodman (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennyfur* 
In college, I learned how to think analytically. Essentially, I learned how to learn, and that has helped me throughout my adult life. Also, I had the opportunity to examine my views critically under the tutelage of experienced professors, and that was eye-opening and life-changing.









Can you give some examples? I'd love to have them to "sell" my students.


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## malibusunny (Jul 29, 2003)

I had decent grades, but had I gotten slightly better high school grades I would have gotten a scholarship. That would have changed my life quite a bit. I had the lowest high school gpa in my entire university class (yeah-the SATs were my friend) so if I had gotten much lower grades, I wouldn't have gotten in. That would have impacted my life enormously, but I can't say for sure if things would be better or worse.

I think grades are important in terms of students who are college bound and are scholarship potential OR have the money/freedom to go to "better" colleges. I think that grades are less important to those who are going direct to work, tech programs, or the local college. In the end, I had a lower GPA than most of my friends but went to a better college because I had great test scores and lots of experiences, but also because I had the money to afford that better school. Money made a bigger difference than grades.


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## malibusunny (Jul 29, 2003)

and you can add me to the list of people that feels that grades are secondary to actually learning-- in so much as grades are a reflection of learning, they are important, but otherwise they are just part of the doors to opportunities.


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## malibusunny (Jul 29, 2003)

and I just realized that I won't be over thirty for a few months. Man, I FEEL older than that.







:


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## Jennyfur (Jan 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Robert Goodman* 
Can you give some examples? I'd love to have them to "sell" my students.

In any problem or situation, it is beneficial to know how to break it down and analyze things critically. I'm not sure how that would ever not be the case.

In my world, more knowledge = good. More learning how to learn = having a way to approach any task without feeling overwhelmed because you know how to examine, outline, assess, make choices.

My critical thinking skills were honed in college, especially in the liberal arts classes (philosophy, literature, ethics). I use them every time I read about what's going on in the world in terms of politics, education, etc.

So as an example, if you are preparing to vote in an election for a candidate, skills you learn in college are very helpful in thinking about what you know and how best to express it.


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## Jennyfur (Jan 30, 2007)

ETA: Robert, you're obviously very cynical about the process, so I don't think it's worthwhile "selling" you.









If college didn't ignite a love of learning for you, I'm sorry. I'm sure it's different for everyone.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

But I did really well in school, and some college.

I think my life would be a lot better if I hadn't had so many problems with my mother as a teen and felt it necessary to move out asap.

If I'd stayed at home longer, had more support instead of criticism of my personal relationships, and perhaps had counseling to help me through some seriously traumatic events in my life, I wonder if I may have made better choices.

Sometimes imagining 'what if' can get me depressed, thinking if only, then I wouldn't be so .....

It's not in a material sense.
It's more emotional well-being that I think of.

My grades were fine. I took AP (college level) classes in high school.
But emotionally, I was very sensitive and socially awkward, and just plain scarred from what I'd been through.

ETA:
My good grades didn't begin until 7th grade. We lived in the same house from the time I was 11.5 until I was 18 (when I left home).
From primary 1 through 6th grade, I attended 7 schools, often moving mid-school year.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kathymuggle* 
35.

This (education is the path to all good things) was the line that was presented to me, and i swallowed it - hook, line and sinker. It also worked for me









That whole, you must get good grades, and go to college, was pushed on me. It stressed me out. I felt as though if my grades weren't perfect, I wasn't good enough. They never said that to me, at all. It's just how I interpreted it at the time. My parents tried positive reinforcement, if you graduate from college, we'll buy you anything you want (they weren't rich, so I'm not sure what they meant by that). I did take a course and get certified, and was sent a check after 'graduating' for a quarter of the tuition I had paid, so maybe that was what they meant. I don't know.

What I do know, is that I felt the pressure, I felt as though a good education was THE MOST IMPORTANT THING, and only a good education would bring me financial success in life.

I did not get a college degree, I am not financially successful, and my parents still wonder if I want more than to be 'just' a mother, and often ask me when I'm going to decide to 'do' something with my life and use that brain I am gifted to have.


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## cottonwood (Nov 20, 2001)

The whole concept of grades makes me foam at the mouth.


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## Flor (Nov 19, 2003)

I had mostly merit scholarships to college. So, without my grades, no college for me. I do wish I'd done a little better in college. I feel like I didn't excell or stand out to my professors and then I couldn't really use them as mentors or for letters of rec.


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## athansor (Feb 9, 2005)

I don't know how to answer, but I had pretty good grades in HS, which paid for my undergrad degree. Then my grades in my B.S. program were good enough for a master's degree, and even after a 10 year layoff from school, to get into a good PhD program. Now I have a faculty position, which is what I've always wanted to do.
So, if my grades were worse, I wouldn't be in the good position I'm in now, however, since they were good, my work life is pretty good.


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## Jennyfur (Jan 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *athansor* 
I don't know how to answer, but I had pretty good grades in HS, which paid for my undergrad degree. Then my grades in my B.S. program were good enough for a master's degree, and even after a 10 year layoff from school, to get into a good PhD program. Now I have a faculty position, which is what I've always wanted to do.
So, if my grades were worse, I wouldn't be in the good position I'm in now, however, since they were good, my work life is pretty good.

This is pretty much what I tell my children. Essentially, I want them to keep as many options open as possible. It's always about options in our home and teaching.

If they do well in school and get good grades, more doors are open to them. They have the freedom to choose, as adults, whether or not college is the best path to take--but at least that option is available to them.

Similarly, if they don't do as well and their grades aren't very high, that doesn't mean that college is impossible, but it will take extra effort in other areas.


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## ^guest^ (Jul 2, 2005)

Well, I'm 25 so I didn't vote, but...

I was a gifted kid (har) until I hit high school. I was pushed so hard to do more and better that I burned out early. I was pushed so hard that I never had a chance to develop any social skills, and I was a socially awkward kid to begin with. Now I kind of wish I had just been a B student and never had the word "prodigy" thrown at me at such a young age, because I might have had a chance at being normal, able to make eye contact with people I've never met, and able to hold a conversation without the abject fear that people will think I'm stupid because I'm not an expert on every subject.

If I'd done worse (and I'm just saying average here, not D's and F's) in grade school/ junior high, I might have had a chance to finish high school. I never pursued college because I was told, constantly, that we were too poor for college, that I had to get scholarships, and therefore had to do more than the normal kids in order to get any kind of higher education. So I gave up on the idea all together.


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## debbieh (Apr 22, 2007)

I am 54 years old and I voted no. I got excellent grades in school, was an honor student. Chose to get married and be a stay at home wife and mom, instead of going to college. Fast forward to today and my husband is now disabled and not able to work, so it's on me. My good grades haven't helped at all, trying to make a career for myself at this age.


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## Robert Goodman (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *athansor* 
I don't know how to answer, but I had pretty good grades in HS, which paid for my undergrad degree. Then my grades in my B.S. program were good enough for a master's degree, and even after a 10 year layoff from school, to get into a good PhD program. Now I have a faculty position, which is what I've always wanted to do.

My problem is that this "logical" track for me turns out to repel me, because I just can't get into grant writing. I've been teaching as an adjunct lately, and even that didn't quite pay the bills all the time, and because of turnover in the administration and my foot surgery this summer they lost track of me and I'm unemployed.

Robert


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## dharmamama (Sep 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Robert Goodman* 
I teach college as an adjunct, and I tell my students college is a racket.

I find that very sad, especially but not only because I think that could be very undermining to someone who worked very hard to get to college and is enjoying their experience there.

If you think college is a racket, perhaps you shouldn't teach there.

I agree that, for some people, college isn't all it's cracked up to be. Some people are there for the wrong reasons. But for some people, college is a logical extension of their love of learning. For some people, it is their ticket to the career of their choice (for example, in my state, you can't practice social work without a license, and you have to have a degree in social work to get a license). How well someone does in college does matter to some employers. For some people, good grades reflect an ability to memorize and dump or perform well on tests, but for other people good grades reflect a commitment to a task and a thorough understanding of what is being studied. I think it's disrespectful of your students to stand in front of them and essentially tell them that their efforts and interests are for naught.

And I am one of the first to agree that college is not an automatic ticket to success.

dm


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## Robert Goodman (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dharmamama* 
I think it's disrespectful of your students to stand in front of them and essentially tell them that their efforts and interests are for naught.

They're not for naught, they're to satisfy the racket. It's a disclaimer. Most of my students (who tend to be well above "college age") were there because someone told them they needed a degree for their job or their intended job. They'd been sent back to school as an adult. I just wanted them to know it was a kind of employment program for the likes of me.

And the racket within the racket is textbooks.

I'm going to an info session this week for New York City Teaching Fellows, because I'm considering applying for the fellowship. I'd seen them come thru where I was teaching, and it looks like steady employment, and now that I've been coaching kids & teens in football I see I can stand teaching groups of them. I'd be entering a 5 year masters program while teaching, and I'd be 54 YO by the time it started, and that's a racket for sure. So I'll see how it is on the other end of the racket, because I sure as hell don't need more schooling!

Robert


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## Shann (Dec 19, 2003)

I got HORRIBLE grades in high school (mostly D's and D-'s, a decent number of F's, a small scattering of C's, only 2 B's -- in "cake" classes-- and NO A's AT ALL!!). I ended up 441 out of 465 in my graduating class. I was also the "bad girl" who got in trouble alot and had "loose morals" and alot of sex from 9th grade on. Yet I made it into a state college, did pretty well, and when I graduated I ended up with a very good job and good income. So, no, my lousy grades and wildness had absolutely no influence on my future life. It just grates on my nerves when I hear public school officials tell teens that if they don't get awesome grades and be model school citizens, they will never succeed in life. It simply isn't always the case.


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## RedWine (Sep 26, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *malibusunny* 
and you can add me to the list of people that feels that grades are secondary to actually learning-- in so much as grades are a reflection of learning, they are important, but otherwise they are just part of the doors to opportunities.

Well put.


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## mazajo (Nov 3, 2004)

I didn't read all the replies, but I'm 33 and I wish that I had gotten better grades in school.

IMO, it's what the grades represent, really. It's about putting forth your best effort to succeed at a task that you really might not be all that interested in.

I was always an intelligent kid but school bored me. My parents never made too big a deal about grades, so I did just enough to barely pass every year. I never really tried because I just didn't care. And I think I still have a lot of problems making myself try at something that I don't really care about- ie, I think I take good care of my children because I CARE about them, but I have trouble with housework because although I want a clean house, the task of cleaning just does not interest me. I am a SAHM now, but I have had problems with jobs in the past because if I am not interested in a task I have a hard time making myself do it well.

Hopefully this makes sense, it's early


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## jillmamma (Apr 11, 2005)

For me I think having really good grades made a big difference. If I had not gotten good grades, I would have had lower self esteem, would not have gotten the scholarships I had, possibly not met my husband (we were in diff. eq. and engineering seminar together in college), and would not have graduated from college debt free. I am 34.


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## mum4boys (Aug 10, 2005)

I got just passing grades in Junior High and High School. I got my associates degree and did pretty well still had some struggles but had a 3.5 or higher each quarter. Then I got my BA and really struggled in Russian and that is when a counselor who became my mentor recognized right off the bat that I had a learning disability. So I went and got tested. The dr. that tested me said it should have been picked up when I was in Kindergarten. Ha it took me flunking Russian to get the help I needed. Anyway, my low grades in Jr. High and High School did not effect me at all. I have 3 BA's now and will be finishing up graduate school before my daughter goes to kindergarten.


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## mum4boys (Aug 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Robert Goodman* 
So I'll see how it is on the other end of the racket, because I sure as hell don't need more schooling!

Robert

Can you clarify please. Are you saying you do not need to learn any more that you have learned all that needs to be learned its just a ploy to get more money out of you?


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## ShaggyDaddy (Jul 5, 2006)

I got great grades and I dropped out of college 1/2 way through at the age of 20.

My answer is the same now as it was when I was 20, grades had no positive effect on my life. In fact, maybe if I had lower grades I would not have got the full scholorship to college and maybe I would not have wasted as much time as I did there. I have a high paying job, and am doing much better financially than everyone I know that finished college. Historically school just got in the way of me persuing my software development ambitions, now that it is out of the way I can make my fortune there.

School has nothing to do with learning.
Grades have nothing to do with the success of learning.

Here is my experience in the executive/corporate world:
Nobody cares what you did in school. School represents 1 thing to a prospective employer: You know how to stick with one thing for 4 years. Guess what... the days of a 30 year career in the mail room and a pension with a gold watch are OVER. Companies are not loyal to people or longevity anymore, and conversly people should not have the same kind of loyalty to companies anymore either. In the fast moving business world, sticking with something for 4 years regardless of how bad it sucks, sinks ships. Obviously you don't want to turn over your staff every year, that isn't what I am saying, bit what I am saying is the ability to sit still is no longer treasured like it once was.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

It really is all about making money isn't it.








A nation of worker bees.


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## ShaggyDaddy (Jul 5, 2006)

the more money I make the less hours I work, the more time I spend with my family.
the more money I make the less likely it is that my wife will have to stop being a sahm.
the more money I make the more good I can do in the world.
I can buy more healthy foods from more socially responsible stores/farmer's markets - the more money I make the healthier my family can live.
we can afford a cleaner car.
we can afford to live where I work so my commute is less impactful to the earth and my life.
we can afford to stop the debt spiral
we can afford to go to the dentist

So yes, it is about more money, but just because some people who chase money are bad, doesn't mean chasing money is bad.

Time is expensive, and the more time I can buy, the more I can learn, grow, live, and love.

I am not suggesting you can buy happiness, but having "enough" has let us persue the things in life that make us happy.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

If only the majority of Americans felt the same way about making money, then maybe we wouldn't have the problems we have now.

As a recent trip to a "3rd world country" reflects, money is not the answer to happiness. In our country, it just brings competitiveness, apathy and greed.


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## mamasgroovin (Nov 27, 2006)

I'm 39 and didn't do GREAT in school, some A's, but mostly B's and C's. I have an amazing life, though, and none of it is really related to how well I did or did not do in school. I wish I had done better. I had a very low self-esteem b/c I wasn't smart enough. I still worry about that a bit, actually.

Now for my kids, they better do better than I did!







: Ds1 is all A's and takes all the honors courses that are available, ds2, seems more like me.







Ds3 does pretty good, of course he's just in 1st grade.


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