# Oh, crap! Early puberty? Should her parents be worried?



## kblackstone444 (Jun 17, 2007)

A friend's daughter just turned 8 two weeks ago. Over the last 8 months or so, she's gained alot of weight, not so that she's overweight, but so that she's borderline chubby. She's also grown taller, enough so that they've had to almost completely replace her wardrobe twice in the last year and a half!) Over the last 5 or 6 months, she's developed little bitty puffy "bumps" (breasts, though it feels odd saying "breasts" and "8 year old" in the same sentence, if you know what I mean.) Everyone just thought it was because of her weight gain. Near the end of the summer, her legs and her toes have become quite hairy, enough so that if she was an adult woman, she'd probably feel self conscious about it. Her parents thought that was odd, but didn't really worry about it, because her Daddy is a very hairy guy, so they figured genes had something to do with it. Last night, the little girl said that she's concerned because she has hair in "that area", as she put it.







: She showed her Mom and she does have some long, thick, but luckily not noticably dark hair in her pubic area. She's barely 8 years old!!! Seriously, should they be worried? She's developing as what we thought an 11 1/2 would and she's only just turned 8! Is this something they should be medically worried about? If it is puberty, by next summer, she'll be in daycamp dressing in front of her friends at swim time, a bunch of girls aged 5 to 10, and she'll be looking like a grown woman, and she's already overly conscience about her body. Does this mean that she could be getting her period in the next year, year and a half? She's not ready for that. (Seriously, she can barely take care of herself right now, and that's not from lack of trying on her parents' part.) Is this extremely abnormal, beginning puberty at 7 1/2-8 years old?


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## PoppyMama (Jul 1, 2004)

My dd started with the breast buds and new hair at 8 but didn't get her period till she was 10. It seems early to me but it's not really that early anymore. Just remeber...the calmer you are the calmer she will be.








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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

My dsd had signs at 6, but we cut out all soy from our diet and did away with bottled water (we're on catchment with multiple filters, so no city water) and managed to hold it off for 4 years.

Get rid of products with lavender and tea tree oil in them also. If you do those things you can help hold it off for a while, as all those things disrupt hormone levels and can contribute to early puberty in girls.

Google 'soy aliases' to see where it's hidden in various foods. I was shocked to see how many things it was in, such as water packed tuna, that we were eating all the time when I thought we were avoiding it.

With all our efforts, none of the signs that were already there went away, but nothing progressed until recently when we started using TTO shampoo after a lice outbreak at school. I didn't know about the hormonal connection to TTO and lavender until afterwards, or we might have managed to stave it off a little longer by using rosemary instead.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
My dsd had signs at 6, but we cut out all soy from our diet and did away with bottled water (we're on catchment with multiple filters, so no city water) and managed to hold it off for 4 years.


Us too. Also, in a panic, I did away with all non organic milk, chicken and eggs. <--mighta overdone that.

_*She had soy formula.. which I later found out is very common for soy formula babies to develop early*_

I don't know if it was all of those things, but her development stopped. Like COMPLETELY.

She didn't get her period til she was 13, and didn't need a bra until she was 11.

But, ALL of her friends were WAY ahead of her. SO, I think it mostly has to do with her Mother's development. I didn't start my period til I was 14, and I still barely need a bra. I didn't even begin to look like a girl until 8th grade.

I understand the feelings you are going through. You feel like you are being robbed of her childhood. I actually lost sleep for weeks over that. I was so sad thinking she would look and feel different from her friends, and that she wouldn't be ready.

I was very grateful when it all slowed down. She would have liked to have breasts before 8th grade though. The kids called her "two backs" until her freshman year.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

A lot of it is genetic. We only eat organic meats and dairy (with the exception of a few treats a couple times of year) and dd started puberty about a year ago. Her bio mom also started early.

The minimum cut of for pubic hair and breast development in girls is 8 and 7 respectively, so while she's earlier then usual it's not early by medical standards.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Yup, eggs are higher estrogen now because they feed chickens soy.

We had also slowed our consumption of eggs coincidentally, and I found out about the soy feed and estrogen levels in them after the fact.

I think water and soy made the major difference in our case. Dsd had early puberty running in her family anyway, so 10 was probably _close_ to normal for her based on heredity.

6 had me in a complete panic.

Actually, medical _standards_ have dropped drastically in 30 years because of all the crap that is in our food and water. Evolution doesn't work that fast and the medical community is remiss in writing it off as _normal_ when in fact it is a _mutation._ The median age for onset of menses has dropped from 12 to 8 in 30 years, and nobody can tell me evolution works that fast in any species.







: We're being _poisoned,_ period. 30 years ago if you took a 6 year old to the pediatrician with pubic hair and breast development they would have taken notice, but now they tell you it's normal because the same people who profit from soy are the ones who profit from pharmaceuticals. Pharmaceutical companies pay for a lot of medical schools and freebies for doctors. They don't want to bite the hand that feeds them.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Actually the theory that puberty has been happening earlier and earlier over the past few decades has been largly debunked. And the median age of the onset of mensus in the US is 11.5 years


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

links? When we went to the pediatrician he told us 8 was now normal but 6 was within the normal range and refused to do anything to delay her, so we adjusted her diet instead.

I researched it myself and everything I found said when I was growing up the median age was 12 and now it is 8. I'm looking for links now.

ETA-from what I'm finding now, there are wildly varying ages in the various articles. I'm still pissed at the doctor that told me dsd was 'normal' at 6. I got her the youngest sounding books I could find and she still didn't grasp what I was trying to tell her about what was happening to her body, but I felt like I had to tell her in case she started her period at school and didn't know what was going on.

http://www.mindfully.org/Health/Early-Onset-Puberty.htm
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...5/ai_n13957438
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...=&pagewanted=1
http://www.med.umich.edu/1libr/yourchild/puberty.htm
http://kidshealth.org/parent/medical...recocious.html
http://news.ncmonline.com/news/view_...688810f62d15ff


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Most doctors wouldn't even consider that 8 was normal for menarche.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=1070801 states in 2000 the average age was 12.8 years.

The problem I have with the people claiming puberty is starting earlier, is their statistics even from generations past has changed over the years which tells me they either were or are not being completely forethcoming with how they are getting their information or both. Ten years ago the ages for then and now were 15 and 12 respectively, now they are for some 9 and 12, 8 and 12... If puberty is happening earlier, then I can understand ONE number changing, but the historical data from 30, 40, 50 years ago shouldn't change.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

I totally agree with you about my doc.

Unfortunately, I couldn't find another one who would disagree with him.









My experiences with doctors have left me suspicious of them as a group.

Yeah, from what I can find, the only thing they seem to agree on is that it seems to be coming earlier now, but none of them can seem to agree just when it really was 30 years ago. I know from my circle of friends 30 years ago, though, 12 to 14 was pretty standard and almost everyone I know seems to be reporting _much_ earlier for their daughters, and that is what I'm seeing reflected in the media as well. Considering what is in our food and water I just can't believe there isn't a connection, yk?


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## lifeguard (May 12, 2008)

Well, I remember very clearly having full on breasts when I was 9. I may have been slightly more developed then my friends at that age but I was not piles ahead of them. But I did not menstruate until I was 12. I don't think that 8 for the starting of puberty is that uncommon at all.

I also work with girl guides (9-12 years old) & at 9 many are in the plump stage you are describing, so imo 8 is not overly precocious.


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## kblackstone444 (Jun 17, 2007)

I'm sure this is gonna sound really naiive, but is there a way to slow it down without changing her diet? Alot of you have said diet was a key factor, but my friend's daughter is only with her Dad 30-40% of the time and there's no way her Mother will change any of her habits (she's about as mainstream as they come







). My friend's daughter has a doctor's appointment (well checkup) next month, and her parents figured he'd either say it was normal and there's nothing to worry about or that we can put her on some kind of drugs to slow it down.


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## 106657 (Apr 9, 2008)

.


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## H & J's Mom (Jun 1, 2008)

I don't think 8 is too young for puberty to start ... it's a long process. DD started probably a bit before 8 with pubic hair, pitt hair, breast buds, etc. She's 10.5 now and her breasts are more mature than buds, she has a bit more hair, etc. She still hasn't started her period yet, but she is very well informed/prepared.

When I was young I started my period in grade 5 and also had full breasts by then. Lots of my friends developed around the same time frame but some were a couple of years later.

I think the age ranges are still pretty much the same with DD and her friends as they were for me and my friends. I don't worry about it, but it can make me sad to see my little one growing so fast and having "big girl" issues to deal with when I still see her a such a child sometimes ...


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## Jannah6 (Aug 29, 2007)

No, it's not abnormal. I think sometimes it's heredity. I had an aunt who got her menses at 8. I began puberty at 8 and got my menses at 9. My 4 yr old DD has been having under arm odor and last week I noticed a few pubic hairs







.

My aunt who raised me really helped me deal with getting my menses. She saw the changes in my body and knew about my aunt who got her menses at 8, so I was given the talk at 8 years old. When I finally got my menses it wasn't a shock, unlike so many of my friends.

The day it happened my aunt took me to the grocery store and we bought some pads. In those days we used the pad belt, but I can't remember if she bought it alone or if I went with her. She also gave me a calendar so that I could track when my menses would be approaching.

I have a 7 yr old DD who is not the most hygienic and I worry about her with her menses. I know that I'll just have to keep after her to be clean. It'll be just one added thing on my list


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## jeliphish (Jul 18, 2007)

I think I started developing around 8/9. I had small breasts as well as a significant amount of pubic hair. I was actually underweight too- skinny as a rail when I was young. I remember my mom taking me to the Dr. because she was concerned about my developing but he said sometimes that girls just develop really early.


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## HinesMaMa (Jun 23, 2008)

I started developing and getting hair "there" around 8-9. I had severe acne at 9-10 and my period started at 10. My daughter is now 9 and has been developing since she was 8. She has hair "there" and under her armpits as well. She is battling acne on her forehead, and has the "bumps" too. She has been complaining of alot of headaches and body aches lately and I think she is gearing up for her period. She is nearly as tall as me 5' 5", and wears a size 7 shoe. This all happened over the course of a year! But if she is like me, she will slow on the developing in her teen years. I think its more genetic related than anything else. Of course, diet plays a role, but some girls are pre-dispositioned no matter what.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

I think there is but it's hard to find a doc who will do it. Because they screwed my generation up messing with our hormones they're reluctant to mess around with our children's, which is a _good_ thing for the most part. I think there are ways to slow it down with drugs though.


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## H & J's Mom (Jun 1, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jannah5* 
She also gave me a calendar so that I could track when my menses would be approaching.

What a good idea, I'll have to remember this for DD. My mom said she could always tell when mine was due, I'd clean my room ... weird but usually true.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jannah5* 
I have a 7 yr old DD who is not the most hygienic and I worry about her with her menses. I know that I'll just have to keep after her to be clean. It'll be just one added thing on my list









I worry about DD as well ... have to bug her to shower and remind her to wash _everything_, not just her hair.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Just want to say that the study I posted above also found that girls who started getting hair and breasts early had the same average for the onset of mensus as those who didn't. So keep in mind that hair and breasts at 8 doesn't neccissarily mean menarche at 9.


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## jennifer_lc1 (Sep 8, 2007)

harleyhalfmoon said:


> editied per posters requestQUOTE]
> 
> i developed really early also but no period til 13. i have to disagree about the diet as pp's have said. it depends on the person really. everyone is different afterall.
> 
> ...


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## kblackstone444 (Jun 17, 2007)

Hey, Redveg, Bigeyes, Jennifer, would you mind unquoting me, so that the exact details of my friend's daughter aren't up there for all the internet to see?

Thanks.


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## kblackstone444 (Jun 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jennifer_lc1* 
mainstream how so? like mcdonalds for dinner everynight? or she isnt the type to listen to the crunchier side of things?

Mainstream as in, fast food at lease twice a week, dinner in some kind of resteraunt or pizza place at least twice more a week and usually canned and frozen foods that are easily cooked the rest of the week. As for the crunchier side of things, well, let's just say, all crunchy things are wrong and abusive and neglectful.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *jennifer_lc1* 
well if i was in your situation i wouldn't say anything. kids already have alot of insecurities about their bodies an bringing this up at a dr visit won't get you anywhere but "its normal" and will just embarass her in the end.

Oh, nothing would be brought up in front of her! She's used to her parents talking to the doctor in private during her checkups, because she's suffered from constantly from multiple resperatory issues most her life. (Please note, her Mother rushes her to the doctor at the first sign of a cough or sneeze or fever and demands an antibiotic. She's much healthier than it sounds, but it's always been a big issue how she's so "sickly".)


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

sure thing!


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## jennifer_lc1 (Sep 8, 2007)

i edited it


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## kblackstone444 (Jun 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
sure thing!










Quote:


Originally Posted by *jennifer_lc1* 
i edited it

Thanks.


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## LizzieG (Oct 4, 2006)

Hi there,

Eight is a little young, but still within the realm of normal to start puberty. If she has pubic hair, you can probably expect menarche within a year. (At least this is what my ped told me.) So time to get talking!

Please tell your freind to buy her stepdaughter this wonderful book called The Care and Keeping of You. It is an American Girl Publication - it uses straightforward language and illustrations about what to expect as your body changes, including discussion of periods, bras, and deodorant (if she chooses to use them). Each of my daughters has her own copy, and it was perfect esp. for my 11 yo daughter who doesn't like to talk about personal matters. With over a million copies sold, it is a pretty mainstream publication, so hard for her mom to object. (Lots of her friends will have copies as they get into 4th grade.)

It is very important for the people in her life to stay positive about her body changes. It is so easy for her to see grown ups' anxiety about early development as a rejection of herself. This is after all, the person she is becoming. Does that make sense? A little "I'm proud of you for taking care of yourself" as she makes changes in personal hygiene can really help.

FWIW, my kids have gone to Girl Scout camp for the last few years, and they see all kinds of stages of development among girls. Last year my just turned 9 yo was in a cabin where everyone was wearing bras and using deodorant. She kind of felt like the odd girl out.

Most public pools have shower stalls or other private changing areas - if she's self conscious encourage her to use them. After years of extended nursing, it is hard for some of us to remember how we felt about dressing in public as girls, but I try to take my girls' feelings into account.

Sorry -- this is really long for my first post in this forum. I guess I had a lot to say!

Joy to you. These are great years in a girl's life!


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

I have an aunt who is going to be 70 this month, and she started her period at age 9. Every girl in the family has been paranoid given this history. I was raised on on a very 'american' diet of milk in a glass, and I was 13 when I began. OTOH, there is someone in our family who was adopted and was given soy formula but didn't get her period until age 14.

If you interview everyone in our family, take in account muscle. fat, tone etc., you are not going to find a perfect pattern. Genetics is a curious thing , in our experience.


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## msladida (Jan 31, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LizzieG* 
Hi there,

Eight is a little young, but still within the realm of normal to start puberty. If she has pubic hair, you can probably expect menarche within a year. (At least this is what my ped told me.)

Actually, newer research is showing that there is not necessarily a relationship between early onset of puberty and early menstruation. A lot of kids who get hair growth or breast changes early still menstruate at an average age.


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
My dsd had signs at 6, but we cut out all soy from our diet and did away with bottled water (we're on catchment with multiple filters, so no city water) and managed to hold it off for 4 years.

Get rid of products with lavender and tea tree oil in them also. If you do those things you can help hold it off for a while, as all those things disrupt hormone levels and can contribute to early puberty in girls.









what? I have never heard any of this and can't say I'd put much belief in it. But to each his own. Gee, it would be wonderful if we knew such secrets to holding off puberty or anything that naturally happens to our body throughout life. Sadly, that's out of our hands.

Back in the 70's when I was a young girl there were plenty of girls that hit puberty earlier than others. Ever heard of heredity?







It can come from anyone in the family, not just immediate family members.

I really don't think I'd worry about it, especially if it's not even my own child that expressed issues with her own body.


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom* 
I have an aunt who is going to be 70 this month, and she started her period at age 9. Every girl in the family has been paranoid given this history. I was raised on on a very 'american' diet of milk in a glass, and I was 13 when I began. OTOH, there is someone in our family who was adopted and was given soy formula but didn't get her period until age 14.

If you interview everyone in our family, take in account muscle. fat, tone etc., you are not going to find a perfect pattern. Genetics is a curious thing , in our experience.

I totally agree!


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## JenniferH (Feb 24, 2005)

Well I do know you have to weigh a certain amount (I think it's 100 lbs.), and have a certain amount of body fat before you can start your period. I started puberty around age 8/9 and got my menarche right after I turned 11. My sister, beanpole that she is, didn't start until she was about 13. She just didn't have enough weight or body fat.

It's conceivable that a slightly chubby/overweight child would start earlier.


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## MaiseWren (Oct 26, 2008)

I've never heard of lavender and tea tree oil disrupting hormones!
I put lavender oil in my dd's bath since they were babes!
Does anyone have more info on this???? Links???

I was reading recentlty that early puberty - especially accompanied by weight gain can be a sign of thyroid disorders. I'll try to find the article.
MW


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MaiseWren* 
I've never heard of lavender and tea tree oil disrupting hormones!
I put lavender oil in my dd's bath since they were babes!
Does anyone have more info on this???? Links???

I was reading recentlty that early puberty - especially accompanied by weight gain can be a sign of thyroid disorders. I'll try to find the article.
MW

http://search.conduit.com/ResultsExt...a+tree+hormone

lots of articles!

I suspect dsd will be prone to that, too. Her bio mom was hypo and not treating it when she was pregnant with her, and all her aunts are hypo. I think she is showing signs now, but of course the docs disagree. Dh and I disagree about what to do next.


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## MaiseWren (Oct 26, 2008)

Quote:

Her bio mom was hypo and not treating it when she was pregnant with her, and all her aunts are hypo. I think she is showing signs now, but of course the docs disagree.
Have you charted her basal temps yet? I was just reading through the awesome iodine thread here. Lots of good info there.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=780908

Good luck. Frustrating situation!
MW


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

No. I'm hoping in a few months I'll have the money to run the full panel of tests to back me up. I'm sure when all the hormones are tested it will show something, but as long as we just test TSH, meh.


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## Tofu the Geek (Dec 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MaiseWren* 
I've never heard of lavender and tea tree oil disrupting hormones!
I put lavender oil in my dd's bath since they were babes!
Does anyone have more info on this???? Links???

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0131204136.htm


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## 106657 (Apr 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *harleyhalfmoon* 
Hey, Redveg, Bigeyes, Jennifer, would you mind unquoting me, so that the exact details of my friend's daughter aren't up there for all the internet to see?

Thanks.

Didn't see this. Someone pm'd me and let me know. Sorry.


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## Nautical (Mar 4, 2008)

If I were the parent, I would definitely bring it up with her doctor. I had precocious puberty as a child and struggled with it emotionally. (Bra needed by age 6, shaving at 7, full pubic hair and period by 8, b-cup by 9, full height by 10, c-cup by 11)


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

We're dealing with it and every doctor we've gone to has said it's 'normal.'







:

It most definitely _is not_, and when the child is emotionally immature to boot, it's just awful.


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