# **THIS IS LONG**Considering temporary care of DS to be placed on maternal grandfather



## singlemomof4 (Jan 12, 2008)

I have NO IDEA if I am even posting in the right place. I am LOST!

In order to recieve as much information and support as possible I need to tell the story from day one, as abbreviated as possible of course!

I gave birth to DS at age 18. Alone, terrified, and knowing that there was the option to adopt but choosing to care for him and not give up on him or myself. I finished out highschool, and lived with my mother for approx 6 months after DS birth. Realizing too quickly mothers cannot live with daughters being mothers. And chose to move in with my father. My son and I lived here with Dad until 5 mos. later he signed lease over to DS and myself and moved out to live with his gf.

My dad has been a major secondary role model in DS life since day one. taking him to "mommy and me" swim lessons since age 2 , coming by everyday to help with difficulties arising between DS and myself etc.

DS is diagnosed ADHD, non medicated by my choice. Severe behavioural difficulties, listening is NOT his strong suit, school is a nightmare, tidying bedroom and everything mundane daily routines is like pulling teeth with no annesthetics.

Shortly before DS 4th birthday found out I was expecting again with my partner of 3 1/2 yrs. Unfortunately, he chose to walk away saying "I am not ready to be a parent to my own child" i argued that he had essentially spent nearly 4 yrs parenting DS but this didn't matter. He was not ready. I let him walk away.

From day one it had always been 100% attention givin soley to DS. Just Mommy and Me. Day in day out. I knew once new bundle of joy arrived there would be some issues with sibling rivalry and jealousy but NEVER in my wildest dreams did I think it would get this bad.

After the birth of second child DS not only was dealing with divided attention of my time, energy and love (from his perspective) he also was dealing with the loss of ex and now introduction of my re-meeting highschool sweetheart and began dating eachother hoping to rekindle romance lost. From the beginning I knew this situation of partner, DS baby and I was not going well but by this point assumed like many single moms do; I will never get anything better. I must settle. I will regret this thought process for the rest of my life for what it caused between DS and myself and falling apart of family as a whole.

He was emotionally crude, rude, and abusvie to not only myself but DS also. It wasn't until later he became physically abusive but by this point it was too late. I was expecting another baby, he was taking off on a weekly basis. going to work in the A.M, my going about daily routine and preparing meal for dinner, only to realize at 10pm he had no intention of coming home. I was stuck. DS #1 was stuck between watching Mommy fall apart at the seams and lil brother crying ALL DAY and ALL NIGHT! (He was colicky) AND to top it all off, knew that I was to have yet another baby. This is when things got really really bad.

DS and I stopped talking, and began the journey into what we have become. We yelled, we fought all the time, he would never listen nor acknowledge anything I said. He would lash out at his baby brothers, myself and school friends. My sweet caring compassionate lil boy was turning into a spawn of satan himself! And I felt it happen, I would love to be able to say i never saw it coming and feel better about not having acted soner but I DID!! I saw him slipping away from me. I watched as my words to him became less affectionate and less caring as they had been for the four yrs alone we had spent together attached at the hip. I hated myself for letting it happen and not doing anything about it But i had no idea where to begin!

By a year later we had moved into a house. And partner still occasionally involved with his two (DS 2 and 3 were in his mind the ONLY children in the house. DS 1 was ignored, pushed aside and left to his own devices) While all the time I watched it like an idiot caught in between a crashing boat and the peir. i should have moved and tried to stop it but I was just too run down. I had no clue what to say or do. I just let him ruin my son. He would watch his step father scream, yell, throw things, walk out mid conversation b/c he didnt like what I was saying. I watched him as he looked at the swaering, namecalling, shoveing, pushing. hitting. I was helpless!!! I was ridiculously STUPID! I shoujld have just found a way to leave. But i niavely thought one day he would change and we would fix everything then and be a happy family like he promised one day we would be.

Now nearly 3 yrs after leaving DS has become what I jokingly refer to friends as the husband I never wanted. But it is sadly the truth. He has become exactly what my ex was!

Now to presently, 6 mos ago my father (DS grandfather) came to me and approached me with the idea of himself and my step mother taking temporary custody of DS to give us both the break we despirately need, the distance between himself and his siblings, Now 3 yrs old son, 4 yrs old son and 15 mos old daughter. Who all suffer each day in watching my frustrations build, anger build, yelling escalate and fights errupt for seemingly no reason at all. This house is not a safe house for oldest son myself and siblings to live in. I rejected the offer from my father at the time saying "NO! I have made him the way he is. I need to fix this. I will not give up on my first born! I won't do it"

That ended my relationship, and DS' with his grandfather. We just could not see eye to eye on anything anymore. He said that if I wasnt going to accept their help that he wanted nothing to do with us anymore pretty much. This was the hardest thing for me being Daddys lil girl to go through and DS having lost yet anther man in his life. I have F**ked him up so badly for all the mistakes I have made in raising him and putting him through all that I have.

A month ago things hit their breaking point between my son and I. He had not progressed to hitting not only his siblings who at all times I cannot keep away from him otherwise risk him feeling more isolated. He now hits me. He shoves me. He spits and throws things, swears etc. EVERYTHING ex used to do. I have many support systems in place, Childrens Aid, Family Services counsellors, school therapists, weekend breaks where all my 4 children go to gfs fo rme to have "me time"....but it's just not right. I love ALL my children equally but cannot function healthily with 9 yr old abusive "husband" in the picture. We need serious help. If he is not home, during school week etc. Our house has flawas yes, occasional fight breaks out between 3 and 4 yr old but Nothing compared to stress with 9 yr old home.

I called my father who again I havent spoken to in months! And cried to him. I asked him if the offer is still there. We are now in process of setting school transfer and everything up for him to leave next week.

PLEASE HELP! I feel ike a failure as a mother b/c I can handle my 1,3 and 4 yrs olds better than the 9 yr old I had and vowed to stick it out thru thick and thin.... My line is far too thin now and I am at the end of my rope!


----------



## Blu Razzberri (Sep 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *singlemomof4* 
...That ended my relationship, and DS' with his grandfather...He said that if I wasnt going to accept their help that he wanted nothing to do with us anymore pretty much....























OOOOOOH







You never told me this part. I thought you chose to distance yourself; but the fact that he was doing it to try and 'force' you into doing what he wanted makes me extra super mad. What a UA violation!!

Since we already talk about my views and idea's on the whole situation; I'll step aside here and let other's give you some thoughts and idea's.


----------



## Blueena (Apr 3, 2007)

First, of all I am so sorry for all that you have gone thru. It sounds like you are taking responsibility for your part in this whole mess which I think is a great thing and will only help make you a better human, mother, friend, daughter, etc.
I do not think it was right for your father to cut you off, but then again, he was probably frustrated watching what was going on with your life, your children, etc and couldn't sit around and watch it anymore, it was probably too painful.
That being said, it sounds to me that your little man needs a fresh start, a new atmosphere. You can take the next couple of years to get yourself together, maybe finish your relationship with your SO and move on completely, maybe go to school, start working on yourself. I think it will be a good thing for your 9 year old to get that second chance, it is not too late for him, deep inside he is still that little boy who just wants his mommy and his family to be whole, so to send him to live in a home with love and attention will be a gift. Make sure he knows that its not that you don't want him, but that his grandfather wants him so much.

Good luck and remember, you deserve a good life too.


----------



## yarngoddess (Dec 27, 2006)

WOW. I think you need some serious counseling, for both you and your children. Even if you allow your DS to move in with Grandpa, don't think ALL the problems are going to magickly "go away" and every one will be hunky dorey, because it wont. There are tons of issues at play, and it all starts with you.

I don't like the idea of "let him live with me, or I won't talk to you " but, on the other hand, I'm sure it was SUPER painfull to watch you go through this with your children.

Put your children and their safety first and foremost. Get counseling.

I hope there are more experienced people out here that give you better advice than I have.


----------



## singlemomof4 (Jan 12, 2008)

Just note. SO is not an equation. Left him 3 yrs ago.


----------



## PreciousTreasures (Dec 18, 2007)

First let me say that I'll be praying for you today. I cannot imagine how hard all of this is for you. I know you love all your babies and it must break a mother's heart to be in this type of situation.

Second you need to know that it took a whole lot of dysfunction to get to where your family is right now and it's going to take a whole lot of work to get to a place of healing.

Last, I am not anything but a mama myself and so not qualified to give any theraputic type advice but I can give you some ideas.

1.) Therapy - some serious hard hitting in your face therapy to deal with the very real and very powerful emotions on all sides. Not someone who's going to pander to either your son or you but someone who will tell you the truth even if it hurts so that you can really make progress.

2.) You are aware that there was a lot you did wrong that has brought all of this about...what you need to do now is change those habits and thought processes in yourself so that you can change the habits and thought processes in your family. What I mean here is - it's time to put your emotional needs aside for a little bit as regards a partner and focus on your children's needs. As you've said your son is a lot like your ex. You've gotten rid of ex and now need to teach your son that ex is gone because that kind of behavior is not accepted.

3.) You have to stop fighting with your son. I recommend what I might call "aggressive loving." When your son hits you, yells, spits, etc then you *run TO him* (not away) and *hug him* (by force if necessary) and hold him and *say calmly* but in a voice that he'll know you mean it and you're going to keep meaning it, that *you love him*. What will most likely happen is that he'll fight you to get away. He'll say awful hurtful things to you. It'll get worse before it gets better. But I really believe that what your son wants more than anything is to know that you love him and that he is more important to you than anything else in the world...more important than exes and so important that mommy is willing to do everything in her power to love him. I foresee a breakthrough eventually if you'll keep doing it where in the midst of the fighting against you one day he'll break down in tears and cry. Then you can talk. Until then you've got to love him whether it's against his will or not and tell him you love him until he believes it.

4.) You need to ask his forgiveness. There's a lot of things that you've done that in his eyes makes you the bad one in the situation. Some of that is justified. You need to confess to him all of it and ask him to forgive you. Let him see the brokenness in your heart for him. His response will probably not be favorable but you still need to do it.

5.) Remember he's a child. He's only nine years old. In so many ways he's still such a baby. You cannot expect him to think or act like an adult or carry any kind of responsibility in the relationship between you and him as an adult would. You must carry it all and not become the needy child yourself. Now I'm not saying this because you are but just to kind of refocus you from seeing him as the "husband you never wanted" to the baby that you wanted all your life.

6.) However the logistics of custody and living arrangements work for now the goal in the end must be to restore your family (you and your children) back together in wholeness. Maybe your ds needs some time away right now but you have to make sure that he and you and the other children and grandfather - everyone - knows that ds will be coming home eventually. What you don't want is to make him (ds) feel like you're throwing him away or just getting rid of him. I know that's not what you're doing and you know it but ds is a very hurt and probably scarred little boy and needs to know it. (Just telling him probably won't be enough.)

Mama, I'm sorry that things are so very hard for you right now but with God's help all can be restored. I will pray for you today and hope that you will all seek out the professional therapy you need. Sending you














:


----------



## mrspineau (Jan 15, 2008)

I grew up in a bad situation. Not quite the same, but just as bad. I started staying with friends when I was about 12.... and my mother let me go probably because she knew deep down that it was better for me I know. BUT I still feel like she gave up on me. I think that if you send your son to live with your father, he may feel that you are giving up on him. (he is not at an age to understand) I think that you both need major help, but I am not sure that him moving away from you is the way to do it. Could your father come to your house and stay with you for a while? Maybe he could help that way. Im not sure what to advise, but I am so sorry for your situation. I applaud you for taking responsibility for your role in this.

I sincerely hope that things change for you, and your family.


----------



## Lady Lilya (Jan 27, 2007)

There is a difference between a threat and a statement of what one will do in a certain circumstances. Notifying her that he wouldn't continue to be around if she didn't take his offer is not necessarily an attempt at coercion. Just providing her with that info for her to take it into consideration in making a decision.


----------



## singlemomof4 (Jan 12, 2008)

First let me say that I'll be praying for you today. I cannot imagine how hard all of this is for you. I know you love all your babies and it must break a mother's heart to be in this type of situation.

Precious Treasures...

Thank You So much!!! I cannot express words of grattitude in response to your message. I have spent the last 24 hours crying. This made me pause for aminutes, cry some more and then felt better. The thought that complete strangers can say something so moving and helpful to me not even knowing me personally blows me away! Thank you again.


----------



## Avani (Feb 14, 2006)

You have a lot going on. I want to address one specific issue that may help relieve alot of stress for you and your son which could help put your family back on track.

*DS is diagnosed ADHD, non medicated by my choice. Severe behavioural difficulties, listening is NOT his strong suit, school is a nightmare, tidying bedroom and everything mundane daily routines is like pulling teeth with no annesthetics.*

By choosing not to medicate you are making his life and your life so much more difficult.I do not in anyway agree with the medications for this but when things are that bad( he abuses you and your kids) i would seriously consider it. He could be calm,rational and actually excel in school with help.I have seen this with many children who found the right treatment and the right dosage. It changed the entire families lives. If you are adament against med's then you must have a place where you live who specialized in special needs children. Getting a behavioral therapist to intervene could help your family immensly. A behavioral therapist can come to your home and observe and then set up a plan to help you with dealing with him and vice versa. Your son will be hitting puberty before you know it and this will only compound things.

I hope you look at this as helpful information and supportive, which is all i mean by it.


----------



## Blu Razzberri (Sep 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PreciousTreasures* 
...Not someone who's going to pander to either your son or you but someone who will tell you the truth even if it hurts so that you can really make progress...

You knot you have me here to do this. I'll tell you the hard truth if you want it; and I'll walk with you to help you sort through the problems. I've already promised this; but I just wanted to remind you.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *PreciousTreasures* 
...He's only nine years old...

I think this will be the most difficult thing to remember. When he was here last night; I had to remind myself how young he was. He looks and acts older than his age in many ways (what I mean by that is that he's a very responsible boy); and helping him with his homework; I kept finding myself caught off guard that his writing wasn't very good....and had to remind myself that he's only in third grade so of course it's not. I imagine it would be extra difficult to remember how young he is when you're dealing with him every day.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PreciousTreasures* 
...You cannot expect him to think or act like an adult or carry any kind of responsibility in the relationship between you and him as an adult would. You must carry it all and not become the needy child yourself. Now I'm not saying this because you are but just to kind of refocus you from seeing him as the "husband you never wanted" to the baby that you wanted all your life....

I quoted that, because it was worth repeating.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PreciousTreasures* 
...the goal in the end must be to restore your family (you and your children) back together in wholeness. Maybe your ds needs some time away right now but you have to make sure that he and you and the other children and grandfather - everyone - knows that ds will be coming home eventually...

Right. This is what I mentioned the other night. This can be a good solution if it's used properly. The goal is to work towards a better future. You definitely need a clear, concise plan and timeline. I will definitely help you with this if you want me to.


----------



## Blu Razzberri (Sep 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lady Lilya* 
There is a difference between a threat and a statement of what one will do in a certain circumstances. Notifying her that he wouldn't continue to be around if she didn't take his offer is not necessarily an attempt at coercion. Just providing her with that info for her to take it into consideration in making a decision.

I expressly disagree. There were other ways BOTH her parents could have helped. It takes the active participation of many people to raise children properly; and she's been very much left to her own devices. It was "my way or the highway"...when it could have been "ok, how about if he comes here one weekend a month to take a load off you?" or "can we enroll him in some therapy and I can come pick him up and bring him there for you since you have no way to do that". She didn't want to send her child to live with him; so he decided to withdrawl all help.


----------



## singlemomof4 (Jan 12, 2008)

This is all VERY overwhelming to me to see such a great response so far. I have so many things going on in my head, heart and home that I cannot possibly reply to each post individually. I will however say that at a time when the chaos of kids running around (bedtime) I will respond and include as many quotes, etc as possible.
Thank you for your support, words and thoughts.

I do have to add just one thing here before it slips my mind. Not medicating is my choice not b/c I dont realize the benifits of medications but b/c I am not sure the diagnosis was correct. At present time in process of waiting for confirmation of appt with Child Psychologist to run many more tests to determine where he is at.

Also. He has individual support for behaviour modification in class at school. As well as Kinark Family service worker who comes inhome EACH week with new ideas, plans of action etc.


----------



## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Avani* 
If you are adament against med's then you must have a place where you live who specialized in special needs children.

Another option if you don't want to medicate is heavy education on nutrition to see if the ADD diet-type ideas work for your son. I know families who have used it successfully, but it can be tedious. If he's truly got a neurological issue, then you need to look to some type of treatment for him, whether it's traditional medication or alternative treatments.


----------



## Milkymommi (Aug 29, 2003)

This is probably going to seem like such an elementary suggestion at this point... but have you considered mega doses of a good quality fish oil for him? This is a fantastic natural mood stabalizer and regardless of the true diagnosis it is wonderfully healthy! Can't hurt either way. I totally respect your need to make sure that he is properly diagnosed.


----------



## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

I'm so sorry you have to deal with all of this.

If you had a healthy relationship with your parents, then I could see the value in letting DS go live with Grandpa (or is it Grandma and Grandpa?) for a while. But under the circumstances, I'm not sure it would be the best thing for him- would it feel like he was being "abandoned" by mom? The way your father handled the separation months ago is very telling- would it have been too hard to call DS on the phone occasionally?

It sounds to me like your 9yo has some kind of mental health problem that needs to be treated. He's not doing well without medication right now. Certainly try the fish oil and take him off artificial additives in his diet (have you looked into the feingold program for him?) but he may need some medication as well, at least in the short term.

If you do decide to let DS live with your dad for a few months, be sure that whatever paperwork you set up is temporary. You don't want to have a custody battle on your hands next year.


----------



## singlemomof4 (Jan 12, 2008)

I think it would be wise for me to inform all of you that the title for the post should not read "Considering" I wasn't sure how to word it to say it has been indefinitely decided the best solution for DS, myself and other children.

I am only putting this as an add-on b/c alot of you are making suggestions for things to do with him living with me. I want you all to know this is happening. In 5 days I will no longer be a stay at home single mom of 4 but rather it will go down to 3.

Although I appreciate all the input and advice for coping strategies , I would prefer to not be in reciept of "you can try" "you should do" etc posts. I guess what I am really looking for is support in dealing with this for myself, DS1,2, 3 and DD. Through the entire process. If that makes sense.


----------



## HarperRose (Feb 22, 2007)

You know what? You're gonna be ok. You guys will get through this, ds will get the help and support and the one-on-one attention that he needs right now. Let BluRaz help you out and be there for you (I truly enjoy seeing her posts all over mothering) and you will be there for your ds and your other 3.

It's ok. He's going to be fine.

Check Ruthla's siggie for the Feingold program . We had our ds (Asperger's syndrome) on it for a couple years and it was GREAT. I really helped us get through a rough patch w/ his behavior.


----------



## shayinme (Jan 2, 2005)




----------



## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Milkymommi* 
This is probably going to seem like such an elementary suggestion at this point... but have you considered mega doses of a good quality fish oil for him? This is a fantastic natural mood stabalizer and regardless of the true diagnosis it is wonderfully healthy! Can't hurt either way. I totally respect your need to make sure that he is properly diagnosed.

And how much sleep is he getting? At least 10 hours a night? Not getting enough sleep can mimic/cause ADHD symptoms.

I'd highly recommend reading the book Unconditional Parenting


----------



## singlemomof4 (Jan 12, 2008)

Plan on letting BluRazz help me. She's my outlet for everything. She's been a godsend to me in the past 6 months for sure!








Also, about sleep. DS gets adequate amount of sleep each night. He takes melatonin, goes down 9 pm and is up at 7am. The behaviour has significatnly gotten better from what it was before melatonin.


----------



## DariusMom (May 29, 2005)

Sorry you're going through this.

Read your update post and I do want to give you a lot of support.

It sounds like your dad was harsh and that must have hurt, but it also sounds like he truly loves your DS and you and wants the best. I'm sure it will turn out really well. Your DS can be the center of attention for a while, still get the help he needs, and you can focus on your other LO and yourself and get yourself on track towards being what you want to be in every area of your life.

It takes a lot of courage to recognize and do the best thing for your child, even if it is breaking your heart, which I imagine it is. It is the essence of AP, though, to meet your child's needs at every stage and it sounds like your eldest son's needs, at this stage, are going to be better met with your dad and stepmom.

If you haven't already (and I know you didn't want "shoulds" in here!), I would sit down and explain that you're *not* abandoning him and that this *isn't* about him being "bad" but more about you all getting on track and him getting a lot of special time and attention from grandpa.

Hang in there. You sound strong and like you're really trying to create a good family despite all your difficulties in the past.


----------



## singlemomof4 (Jan 12, 2008)

This is breaking my heart more so today after having sat DS down and had "the talk" last night. To try to explain to him this is not something that is his fault, but rather something we both need more than anything. He argued and pleaded and cried "No Mommy, I can change, I will be better. This is all my fault." I kept holding him by my side crying with him telling him that I know he can change, and be better but that the ONLY way right now at the point we have reached for this to happen is for us to TRY this. I have explained that there will be really hard times ahead, but in the end that I love him and we want him home with us again.

He was very reluctant to call and speak to his grandfatehr about any of it. Saying to me that it was not a good idea he try to talkto my father. He insisted that he would get yelled at, and I explained that there was nothing he could feel or say wrong. He did not want to talk still and said to me "it is not okay for me to swear and scream at Grandpa?" I replied no that swearing is not okay. He said "well then I cannot talk to him. Finally I managed to convince him to talk just for two minutes while I despirately needed to change his sister. This worked great! He cried and was angry and wouldnt talk for the first 5 minutes. But then spent 45 mins on the phone talking about all the things that would happen.

My father is bringing me boxes this week, we have a meeting Thursday to put all concerns, ideas out on the table between my Dad and myself. With my Childrens Services worker in my corner as the middle man.

Today is a new day....or so everyone keeps telling me.


----------



## singlemomof4 (Jan 12, 2008)

24 hours without him and counting....I made it through last night. I feel empty and bare. Missing him like crazy. I don't know if I can make it to the end of the school year...I really know I have to but I just can't think past the next five minutes right now


----------



## crispysmom (Feb 2, 2007)

I am so sorry you have to go through this.


----------



## woobysma (Apr 20, 2004)

I just want to give you a big ((HUG)), OP.

My story's not exactly the same as yours, but my DS1 sounds like your DS1 - the first child of a young single mom, the ADHD, the upheaval in his life that I felt SO guilty for...... even the grand-parents who would step in with an offer like the one your dad laid out if things got really bad. I could have been in your exact shoes if I'd made a few slightly different choices. I know what it's like to make choices as a *woman* that make you feel like a bad *mom*... HUGS, HUGS and more HUGS.

You've gotten great advice from the other posters here and it sounds like you've taken a lot of it to heart. I would have said a lot of the same things. Therapy is a really good idea - and GOOD therapy, the kind that makes you spill it all out on the floor and put it back together again.
And really being vulnerably honest with your son and telling him you're sorry for things is a good place to start. I've said some painfully private things to my son, let down my guard and let him know that I was sorry for decisions I made. It was hard, but he deserved that from me and I promised him a few years ago that I would NEVER create drama and unhappiness in his life ever again and have held onto that promise like gold. You can turn this around. You've got a good break point here where you can start out on a new foot and be that mom you really want to be.

I'd also at least consider medication for your DS's ADHD. I put it off for a long time, blamed myself for his behavior, pretended if I was a "good mom" it would all just magically fix itself. After I got our life back together and everything had calmed down, it was still an issue, though. A lot of DS's angst came from really not being able to do the things he wanted to do - play happily, do well in school, have close friendships, etc. I think medication should be a last resort, but it is helpful for some kids. We tried all the diet changes (really wasn't much of a change for us, since we already stayed away from a lot of the "trigger foods"), tried supplements, limited TV, etc. I would at least keep it as an option to consider if it seems like you're making great progress in your relationship, but he's still struggling.


----------



## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:

It takes a lot of courage to recognize and do the best thing for your child, even if it is breaking your heart, which I imagine it is. It is the essence of AP, though, to meet your child's needs at every stage and it sounds like your eldest son's needs, at this stage, are going to be better met with your dad and stepmom.
I just wanted to quote this so you could read it again. Given the current situation and the fact your ds has ADHD, he needs much more one-on-one time and consistency than you can give him right now while he works through the issues he is facing. You are not dealing with a typical child so the remedies to the difficulties between you cannot be solved with typical solutions.

You HAVE NOT failed him by sending him to live with your father. You will only have failed him if you don't move forward and learn from this. Just getting him away from the constant negative interactions between you will likely make a huge difference for him.

Sometimes extreme situations call for extreme solutions. I really commend you for making such an impossible decision for your child. It is truly unselfish to want to allow him to go somewhere else in an effort to help him instead of hanging on at any cost. I sincerely hope you both get the help you need


----------



## Milkymommi (Aug 29, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *singlemomof4* 
I think it would be wise for me to inform all of you that the title for the post should not read "Considering" I wasn't sure how to word it to say it has been indefinitely decided the best solution for DS, myself and other children.

I am only putting this as an add-on b/c alot of you are making suggestions for things to do with him living with me. I want you all to know this is happening. In 5 days I will no longer be a stay at home single mom of 4 but rather it will go down to 3.

Although I appreciate all the input and advice for coping strategies , I would prefer to not be in reciept of "you can try" "you should do" etc posts. I guess what I am really looking for is support in dealing with this for myself, DS1,2, 3 and DD. Through the entire process. If that makes sense.

Makes sense... just so you know I was suggesting the fish oil regardless of where he is living. I was assuming you'd still be working on finding solutions for him even though he wouldn't be with you. I think you'll have renewed clarity with a little time and you'll be able to be the greatest mama you can be for ALL of your kiddos. It's not forever... but imagine what effect your choice might have on forever? Good things are heading your way


----------



## singlemomof4 (Jan 12, 2008)

Just a quick update.....three days and counting. And this isn't getting any easier!







DS#2 is taking this really really hard. He won't eat, he is sleeping all the time and refuses to even talk to me about it. He goes to school eachday and is so sad. He doesnt play with the other children at recess b/c it used to be his time with his big brother. His gr 3, 9 yr old brother used to shaft his own age friends each day just to spend that hour with his 4 yr old kindergarten brother, he misses him so much!

I am just waiting it out and hoping eventually he gets back to himself. DS #1 called us tonight, I havent talked to him since he left on Sunday. I started crying right away when I heard his tiny voice, it's been almost 9 yrs having him aruond every single day and finally it hits me during our phone call tonight how little he still is! Why didn't I see this before? I hate that everyone is going to be thinking the exact thing I am "you dont know what you have until it's gone" BUT it's the truth! I hate the truth! He is going to call me again alter before bed. Lets hope tonight he actually does. Last nigh the emailed me saying he loves me and misses me and that he would call later but never did. I went to bed with my phone in my hands just incase.

More another time when I am not so bumbarded with dishes, diapers and bathtime.

Somebody tell me the missing will cease some point soon!! My heart feels so empty and bare it's killing me.


----------



## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)




----------



## New_Natural_Mom (Dec 21, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *singlemomof4* 

Somebody tell me the missing will cease some point soon!! My heart feels so empty and bare it's killing me.


Why does it have to be a complete separation? It could be healthier for all involved (especially DS) for scheduled phone calls - if not every day, a couple of times a week. Use this opportunity to stay current as to what is going on in his life. During his calls allow him time to speak with his siblings and take this time to calmy try to mend some of the relationship.

Just a suggestion.


----------



## glorified_rice (Jun 5, 2005)

I'm not qualified in any way to comment here, but wanted to offer







and hope that things will soon improve for you and your family.


----------



## suprgrl (Sep 27, 2005)

I just want to give you a big hug. It must feel so hard and overwhelming to all of your family right now.

My mom had a really hard time with my brother around age 10/11. ADHD.. he was on ritalin, lots of fighting between parents, divorce, etc. At one point my brother pulled a knife on my mom (I don't think he would have really hurt her), and she called the cops. My brother then spent some time in a psych hospital. I know my mom regrets a lot of the decisions she made during that time, but regardless of it all my brother is a wonderful 25 year old. He is even getting married to a wonderful girl next month, and they seem to have a good relationship. Despite the violent behavior my brother showed in his pre-teen years, he has grown to be a compassionate and gentle person.

I say all this in an attempt to give you some hope that it will all work out. You obviously love you little boy... make sure he feels that from you. The best thing my mom ever did for us was apologize, cry with us, and be vulnerably honest about her love for us. Send care packages to him if you can, a card or note in the mail can mean so so much!
You are in my thoughts. You will get through this.


----------



## angie7 (Apr 23, 2007)

Wow! I cant imagine what you are going through









But I'm a little confused. Why are you so against medicating him? Just b/c you dont think he has the proper dx, its worth a shot to keep your son with you and his siblings. And therapy? It can do alot of good it situations like this.

And kids tend to blame themselves, no matter who or how often you tell them its not, they still will. He very well could grow up to think he is damaged goods and even his mom gave up on him. That can really mess with a child's and even an adults self worth and send them spiraling out of control.

I'm not trying to make you feel bad, but I think you need to take a step back and really ask yourself, "did I try everything for him?" and I think if you listen hard enough, you will find the answer.


----------



## crazyeight (Mar 29, 2006)

do you have a scheduled visitation with him? the time away is good i think and I HOPE that your father is one of those older school men who is classicly good to women and shows it PROMENTLY when your ds is around? from what i quickly gather is he learned the bad stuff from your ex and he is STILL impressionable. i would say that 1x a week or so you trade with your dad. he gets your 3 little ones and you and your ds spend an hour (or whatever) together. that way your still influnecing him but not near him enough to be disciplining him (which i think is what stresses you the most!). learning from someone who he LIKES (grandpa) but has not really been "under" can really change a person.

i also say counseling maybe even one on one AND family at the same time is certainly a plus. you've already admitted that the choice in men has hurt the family but YOU will need to learn some new things too....and it takes FOREVER to teach yourself!

hugs!


----------



## Lady Lilya (Jan 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angie7* 
But I'm a little confused. Why are you so against medicating him? Just b/c you dont think he has the proper dx, its worth a shot to keep your son with you and his siblings. And therapy? It can do alot of good it situations like this.

I got the impression that she believes his behaviors are not chemical problems but due to learning from imitating his step-father. In that case, chemicals wouldn't be a long-term solution, but they do have the potential for long-term risks.

So she sent him into a new environment with better male role models, and a chance for a new start with a new way of interacting with people so he can build a new dynamic for himself in this world.


----------



## angie7 (Apr 23, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lady Lilya* 
I got the impression that she believes his behaviors are not chemical problems but due to learning from imitating his step-father. In that case, chemicals wouldn't be a long-term solution, but they do have the potential for long-term risks.

She claims he had problems before the step-father moved in. Of course that didnt help and it did make it worse, but in order to keep my son with me, I think I would try ALL avenues before letting him live with someone else. Even if it wasnt meds, I would at least try therapy. I wouldnt expect him to just 'come around' after the life that he has lived and seen. It's going to take some work. And I would still seriously consider therapy now.

My heart goes out to the little boy. I'm sure he is sad and confused and doesnt understand what is going on.


----------



## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angie7* 
She claims he had problems before the step-father moved in. Of course that didnt help and it did make it worse, but in order to keep my son with me, I think I would try ALL avenues before letting him live with someone else. Even if it wasnt meds, I would at least try therapy. I wouldnt expect him to just 'come around' after the life that he has lived and seen. It's going to take some work. And I would still seriously consider therapy now.

My heart goes out to the little boy. I'm sure he is sad and confused and doesnt understand what is going on.

Let's try to be supportive of this mom as she is clearly going through a difficult time. It is very easy to say what you would do in a situation like this if you have never been there. And unless you HAVE a child who displays symptoms like ADHD you really cannot understand the dynamic. Their home was in crisis, and in order for change to happen something drastic HAD to happen. It is better that the drastic thing that DID happen was for the boy to spend some time with people who love him and cherish him rather than the many other things that could have transpired. It isn't like she sent him off to foster care because she was tired of dealing with him. She had him live with grandpa for a while in an effort to HELP him.

I think it is important to help this mom where she *is now* and not tell her what she should have done instead. Guilt won't help her or her ds. Support and help for where she *is now* will.


----------



## Lady Lilya (Jan 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angie7* 
She claims he had problems before the step-father moved in. Of course that didnt help and it did make it worse, but in order to keep my son with me, I think I would try ALL avenues before letting him live with someone else. Even if it wasnt meds, I would at least try therapy. I wouldnt expect him to just 'come around' after the life that he has lived and seen. It's going to take some work. And I would still seriously consider therapy now.

My heart goes out to the little boy. I'm sure he is sad and confused and doesnt understand what is going on.

She has other children to think about too. How could she devote to him all the attention he needs at the expense of the others? And it isn't like she disposed of him! She sent him to live with loving grandparents who want him there and can give hin the needed attention.


----------



## Blu Razzberri (Sep 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Justthatgirl* 
...Let BluRaz help you out and be there for you (I truly enjoy seeing her posts all over mothering)...

AWWW thanks.







:

Ok; down to the serious here....

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angie7* 
...Why are you so against medicating him? Just b/c you dont think he has the proper dx, its worth a shot to keep your son with you and his siblings...

Surely you're not suggesting giving a CHILD medication just to see what happens?? Especially not medications as strong as ADD/ADHD medication!! We're talking about altering the chemical makeup of the human body here! That requires something far more accurate than just "try it and see"; wouldn't you agree?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angie7* 
...therapy? It can do alot of good...

The best of the OP's resources are being used; but therapy is expensive and the free stuff has a waiting list. We need other options too.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angie7* 
...And kids tend to blame themselves, no matter who or how often you tell them its not, they still will. He very well could grow up to think he is damaged goods and even his mom gave up on him...

If she'd just dropped him off on the doorstep and left; I could see this being a probable outcome. While it's possible that he may take that road in the end; it's not likely. In order to understand why; you'd have to know more about the situation. I think he'll come out knowing this was for him; for his family; and for the best.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angie7* 
...I'm not trying to make you feel bad, but I think you need to take a step back and really ask yourself, "did I try everything for him?"...

Honestly Angie; I have to say - I think you're not realizing how bad you're making her feel here. Don't you think this thought pattern had run through her head many times before this point? I can attest to the fact that we've discussed this very thing.

The major problem was that she was a single mother of FOUR with very little regular help. Her family could have been involved for stress relief on a weekly basis. She has enough extended family that they could have been involved once a month each and she'd have the help she needs. Even if it was just someone coming in so she could take a walk or go get a coffee on her own for an hour. But that wasn't the help they offered; and the OP was backed into a corner and holding the world's weight in stress on her shoulders. She did the best she could with the resources she had; and it wasn't enough.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angie7* 
...She claims he had problems before the step-father moved in....

Sure she did...the child's OWN father took off on him. I can tell you that he's got deep-seeded anger issues about this; and doesn't have the words to express himself yet. This situation is far more complicated than the OP could ever write here; and it's really important to remember that when replying on this thread. Please keep this in mind.


----------



## angie7 (Apr 23, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Blu Razzberri* 
The major problem was that she was a single mother of FOUR with very little regular help. Her family could have been involved for stress relief on a weekly basis. She has enough extended family that they could have been involved once a month each and she'd have the help she needs. Even if it was just someone coming in so she could take a walk or go get a coffee on her own for an hour. But that wasn't the help they offered; and the OP was backed into a corner and holding the world's weight in stress on her shoulders. She did the best she could with the resources she had; and it wasn't enough.




I'm sorry, I didnt mean to hurt her feelings, that wasnt my intent but I see now how I have. And I can understand what your saying above about being backed into a corner. The stress of children is so hard on anyone, let alone a single mama with 4 little ones, one of which is harder then most. I just hope that she reaches out to her son, which I'm sure she will. And its a shame that her family has not been there for her...I do with her and her son the best.


----------



## want2bmoms (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi. I'll start off saying that I don't know you, your son, or the whole of your situation. Everything I am about to say comes from love, and _MY personal experience_ Which is bound to be completely different than anyone else's here, Please take from it what you may and toss the rest! (sorry, lord knows I've given you enough to toss here, just wanted you to be able to understand where I'm comming from)

Quote:

My story. I am 25. I am the oldest of four children. I have always been extreamly passive. When I was 21, due to some abusive circumstances, I left my mothers house where i was living in the garage, lived in my car for several months, then met my current partner and moved in with her (halfway across the country from my hometown). It took her three days to realize I was gone, at which point she learned that I was simply gone and wouldn't be back. She didn't know where I was living until I turned 22.
In early 2005 she called my phone and begged me to take my then 13 year old sister, the child was refusing to go to school, smoking, sneeking out, and hanging out with gang members. I paid for the child's plane ticket, picked her up, threw everything she brought with away that wouldn't come clean (that amounted to maybe three items.), and begged, borrowed, and bought everything else - underwear to jacket.
I found out that she was 1)still sucking her thumb and carrying a "lovey" everywhere she went. 2)having sexual intercourse with a 16 year old, and 3) smoking marijuana.
It took us a week to get her into school and properly clothed (there was still snow on the ground here and where she is from, it hasn't snowed in '84)
She seemed to adjust well, had counseling every week, made friends, went from no school to perfect attendence, honor roll, and being excited about picking out classes for her freshman year of highschool.
Five months later she crashed, started sneeking out (or at least trying), sneeking cigarrettes from friends at school, and threatening to kill herself. We put her in the hospital three times, before finally handing her over to CPS and a GREAT foster mom who let us see her almost right away and was very supportive and understanding. (I continue to be impressed with how cacring and understand the entire CPS system was with us, they tried everything to help us!!!) She continued to do well there.
After two weeks in foster care, they managed to find her mother and she came and got her (it was two weeks before the 6 month mark in which the child wouuld be a legal resident of our state and mother couldn't take her freely







: )
As soon as the child returned home, everything went back to the way it was before coming to us, with the exception that she was now angry that "mom" had sent her away.

What I learned from this is that children do need their mothers -everyday- even if it is just to see them and get hugs and talk about how school went and what they are doing with their friends (I'm not saying it isn't ok for him to stay with your dad, just that you need to go to him EVERY day, pretty much no matter what...). Also, if you don't demand the child be returned to you full time within _xxxx_ amount of time, you run the risk of losing custody of them and it is difficult to get it back. Finally, no matter how much it sucks, they want to be with their mommy, all the time.

My suggestions, although I am young and inexperienced...
COUNSELING!!! they do family sessions where the therapist may come to your home and help in the environment, as well is individual sessions. (I don't know where you live, however, here we qualified for medicaid for the minor, and that included $5 out-of-pocket sessions)
One-on-one time. Even if it means putting every one in bed 20 minutes earlier than their next-oldest sibling, that 20 minutes is the next kids in line, and then you could even tell your son that he goes last because he's the oldest and you want to spend EXTRA time with him and give him 30-45 minutes before tucking him in, just like the younger kids got(even a story - he'll say it's dumb, but he'll secretly dig it!) ((Secret: My favorite book has and will probably always be "Love you Forever" it's a little sad, but is also a great opportunity to show that you really do love him forever (when he was nine years old, he made HUGE messes and said bad words, but...







)...))
Did I mention counseling?
Consistency. No matter where he ends up, be sure that they are willing to follow the same dicipline that you use. If they aren't sure how you would handle a situation, they need to ask you. (This will also help to aviod _I'm going to go live with grandpa, I get to do more stuff there!!!_)
Love, just love all of them with all you've got, and if you feel your need to feel loved, ask them for it. "honey, can I please have one of your extra special super strong love you mostest hugs???" and revel in it.

And, I just realized that you have four children and there just happend to be four weekends in almost every month. Between your father and the people on here who it sounds like you know personally, would it be possible to sent three of the four to someone else every weekend (maybe thee someone else's, alternating between the three people and four children - so they are with someone different but still loving every time) and keep one of them with you? Friday night to Sunday afternoon, JUST me and mom and no one else grown or kids fighting to steel MY attention!!! is a great treat that dosn't have to cost much at all (sorry, I am pooooooorrrr-think crayons and printer paper taped to the underside of the kitchen table) Maybe on those 5 weekend months, you could find someone to give you a weekend off too?
I know it's hard and that you are afraid, be strong, you will find the strength somewhere.

:HUG :HUG :HUG







:


----------



## singlemomof4 (Jan 12, 2008)

So here we are into week two of him being gone. I miss him more now than I did to begin with. My father is being a dink of epic purportiosn right now too. Only heard from DS once last week, Wednesday night. (twice that evening but just that evening) Then he went to his weekend respite he's been in for weeks and normally they have a set time to make a phone call home to say hi, I love you and goodnight, I fully expected DS would ask to call me. Turns out in talking to him yesterday morning at 7:30am that he DID ask to call me but they would not let him!!! This is not what his extended visit with my father is supposed to be about! It is supposed to be a break for the two of us from the chaos we were in and help us get back on right path towards a healthy happy relationship. Not total isolation and ignoring him asking to see and talk to me.

In talking to DS yesterday morning he brought up something I had mentioned about buying new beds for my boys (DS1,2 and 3) and he says to me "Mommy do you think next time you see Grandpa you could give him a picture to show me what my new bed will look like?" I replied quickly saying "How about I get a picture and show YOU when I see you" Well! I heard him turn from the phone and ask my father "Grandpa when will I see my Mommy? I want to see her soon" And quickly after this heard him begin to cry, my father muttering something in background and him quickly saying to me "Mommy I have to go. I have to go. " and hanging up the phone on me. Seriously!!!! So this prompted my phonecall to my Childrens Aid Worker so she would know what is happening, and know also that this is not going to work. I want the access ban lifted that my father seemed to think was right to put in place. I want my son home each Wed from 5pm-8pm to see me, I will send other children to gf's for bit. And also I want him home each Friday night from 5pm-Sat morning for family night and sleepover. To gradually ween us back into him being here, because also at this point I have decided this will NOT go on much longer! I want him home. I added too that I want it known he will call me each night to say good night, I love you etc. Every single night!! Not just when my father "feels "like letting him call me.

So I spoke to my worker a few hours later, crying to her that I really truly think I have made a mistake and that I felt backed into a corner when I said yes to all of this. She completely understood and was going to call my father to explain things will be changing and sooner rather than later he will return home to his family here who misses him much more than I ever thought we would. This is unbearable! DD seems to be the only one not visibly effected by this. Its just not right.

Spoke to DS again this morign and yet again he was rushed off the phone as soon as he began to express missing me and wanting to see me. Luckily for me I didnt have to cal my worker this time, she called me shortly after to say she had spoken to my father and that he is not agreeing to what I want. He is unhappy that DS is sad and upset after speaking to me and my worker explained to him that it is a good thing. He needs to be allowed to feel these emotions. Dad responded with "well it makes him too difficult for us to deal with" !!!!!!! WHAT! ? Seriously! NO way!

So long story short, meeting with father again next week, and support systems, family, neighbours, BluRaz incl. thank god! and we will be closing this up. This will be finalized for him to be home at months end at very latest. Once he comes home I have many many things that will have to change...and stayed changed. But in hindsight I knwo that this week was needed to see faults in how I was handling things with DS, and know now what to NOT do in future...I am expecting a fight and possible court date for Dad thinking he has grounds to keep him. not worried in the least though. Childrens Aid had no concerns of him being with me to begin with. They wont stand for him trying to say he shouldnt be now either.

As it is, seeing DS this Thursday and not Wednesday as I said b/c of transportation issues, but from 5-8. and then Fridays for overnight aswell 5pm-Sat.

More later...


----------



## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

I am sorry this is so hard for you, but I think it is great that it has allowed you the space you needed to get things on the right path! I hope he is back with you again soon and that you get the support you need to make it work!


----------



## want2bmoms (Feb 8, 2008)

GODD JOB!!!! As soon as we read, DP and I were saying the you need to get him back NOW!!!! YOu are doing the right things to move forward and it sounds like your father is trying to take advantage of you. You are making the right choice. Stay strong and take care of yourself.


----------



## PreciousTreasures (Dec 18, 2007)

I've been following the goings-on and wanted to jump in with my 2 cents worth again.

I have a few thoughts you might want to chew on.

1.) This time away from each other HAS been productive for you. Although it has not been what you thought it would be, you have made some good progress in analyzing your own thought processes. This is good. Who knows, YET, what his thoughts have been and what progress he can have made from this. Do not beat yourself up that things weren't as you thought they'd be...very few things in life are what we thought they'd be. As long as you gained something from the experience you are coming out of it ahead of where you went in.

2.) Yay to you for standing up to your dad for your ds. I know from the things you have said and implied that your father has been a bit of a bully so I want to give you the encouragement you need and affirmation to know that you're doing right by your ds by standing up to the bullying. This will HELP let him know (in addition to all the other wonderful things you're doing) that he means more to you than anyone else and you'll do whatever it takes to protect him.

3.) Use the time that he does come home for a new beginning. I encourage you to sit down before he gets there and also with him when he gets there to make a "contract" between the two of you. Agree to be and do and say only what is helpful and healing and agree to not be or do or say that which destroys. Set up guidelines and consequences for both parties (because both will cross those boundaries - you're just human) for when those rules are broken. Set them and live up to them. That way anytime some point of agreement is violated the restoration and healing comes thru the "retribution" meted out to either party. (I don't mean retribution in a negative sense but rather as a way to make up for mistakes and then to move on.)

If I may I'll give you an example (not necessarily what you do but just an example):
RULE: Mommy will not yell at DS when she's angry. Mommy will take a time out to calm down then Mommy and DS will discuss the problem. If Mommy begins yelling DS is allowed to say the code word "potato cakes" and Mommy will immediately leave the room for time out. DS is not allowed to yell back.
RULE: DS will not swear at any member of the family. DS will take a time out in another room to calm down then come back and discuss the problem with Mommy and whomever DS had a problem with. If DS begins to swear Mommy is allowed to say the code word "potato cakes" and DS will immediately leave the room for time out. Mommy (and everyone else) is not allowed to yell or swear back.

I wouldn't make more than 5 rules (addressing the most problematic behaviors - like physical aggression ((hitting, kicking, pinching, pushing, etc)) yelling, name calling, cussing, etc. Whatever you think are the things that most need addressing.), but make them very specific and make contingencies for messing up. Allow them to have continuity (i.e. the same code word for all rules) and also must be agreed upon by everyone. I'd also make the rules about how you treat each other - opening lines of communication not breaking into emotional hurricanes when something happens. Once you have this so ingrained in the family that it becomes natural then you can sit down and revamp the rules at a "family meeting" to address other areas of need, keeping as tools for reaching those goals the things you learned in the first five rules (i.e. the first five don't go away, they've just become a natural response. You can always fall back on the original rules if needed.) DON'T TRY TO FIX EVERYTHING AT ONCE.

4.) I know you can do this mama. You love him and he loves you. You need him and he needs you. You can make this work. Don't look for perfection just healed functioning.

Still praying for you,


----------



## singlemomof4 (Jan 12, 2008)

Thank you so much for the encouraging words...I woke up this morning after another arguement between my father and I last night and I was the bigger person...for the first time in my life. I stopped, I said I will not continue this discussion Really he was just yelling at me trying to intimidate me..but still


----------



## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

I'm so sorry you had to go through all this, and your "father" is treating you and DS so horribly.

I hope your DS is home soon, and that when he returns home, you'll be able to make some real changes and get him on the track to healing. At least, with all this, you've learned that your DS belongs with you.


----------



## singlemomof4 (Jan 12, 2008)

Quick minute...more later to explain but have to say it now while the feeling of elation is at it's peak...HE"S COMING HOME IN TWO DAYS!!!!!!


----------



## Jilian (Jun 16, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *singlemomof4* 
Quick minute...more later to explain but have to say it now while the feeling of elation is at it's peak...HE"S COMING HOME IN TWO DAYS!!!!!!









YEAH!!!!! Good job mama. You can do this. I have a very difficult DS and spent some time as a single mama too. It is and was very hard. More love is always the answer. I believe that all children act out because they are not having a specific need met, usually love and attention. Have you ever read the book "Easy to love difficult to discipline"? by becky bailey? It was life changing for me, and DS's teacher uses its principles.

Best of luck with the homecoming, you can do it!! Be firm with him when he gets violent with you or the other children. Tell him in a firm voice "I am not going to let you hurt me" and restrain him. Let him flip out and yell and scream if he needs to. Don't let him go until he's calm again. Ride it out, even if it takes an hour. The first few times are the roughest, then he'll learn to calm himself. Model relaxed behavior for him and show him how to take a few minutes alone when he's upset. Doing this with DS1 has made all the difference. Feel free to PM me anytime you wanna chat to a mama who has been in your shoes. There were many times I had considered letting DS1 have an extended stay with my parents too. I know how you must have been feeling.


----------



## momma earthical (May 21, 2006)

Hooray mama, I'm so glad he's coming home soon. I just saw this thread today, so I read all of it at once. My heart goes out to you, you seem like such a loving mama. I hope you can find the support you need to make life better for you and your sweet family. I haven't time to write more due to the demands of my own family but


----------



## gaialice (Jan 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *singlemomof4* 
Quick minute...more later to explain but have to say it now while the feeling of elation is at it's peak...HE"S COMING HOME IN TWO DAYS!!!!!!









I have been quietly following this thread and I am so happy he's coming home!


----------



## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

:Hooray Mama!

I have been reading this thread since it first started...and I am so happy for you and your kids!!

Good job sticking up for your son and yourself!


----------



## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

I haven't read all the responses but i just wanted to give you a big hug







.

I am basing the following advice on my hardest child. 7 and 8 were really really really hard years for us.

first definitely get therapy and a proper diagnosis and if he needs to be medicated by all means try that. it may not be the perfect solution but it may be better than this.

get therapy for yourself. It sounds like you have had a hard time. give yourself a break.

he is only 8. you are only what . . .25? 26? neither of you are at the end of a bad miserable life. things might suck right now but with help and gentleness to yourselves and each other it is certainly not to late to change the direction things are going.

simplify your life until things calm down. get rid of anything that can get broken or damaged. get rid of anything that sucks your time cleaning. get rid of extra clothing. relax your ideals. have just enough to get you through a few days between washing (if you have a machine. if you wash at a laundry mat this is not nearly so practical.) also if he gets spazzy when asked to make a choice stick with jeans and T-shirts as his every day uniform.

you said he did better way back when the two of you were attached at the hip. reattach him to your hip. seriously. literally. keep him within arms reach of you at all times he is at home. its hard to fall in love again if he is always in another room. also by keeping him physically close you can praise every good thing you see (I know some people here are anti praise but I think it is a good way to reinforce good choices and good behavior especially in children who really seem to not get it) and see big honkin melt downs brewing long before they get there. usually the road signs are obvious if we are just near our children. It also gives you lots of time for talking and connecting both emotionally and physically and a way to engage him meaningful work besides you which helps keep kids out of trouble. Do not make this a punishment though. make sure he knows that you are doing this because you love spending time with him and have been really missing him lately and that you don't want to have to yell so you are keeping him close enough so that you can both hear each other better. you may need to do this for a long time. like a year or more. (and honestly for a while I did this with all three of my children when Mads hit that 7-8 place. i have been doing it with my youngest since birth and her behavior is so amazingly better and discipline has been so much easier. this is really a blessing for any child.). madeline hated it the most but eventually she warmed up to hanging out with mom. they aren't always with me any more but when things start to spiral out of control i bring everyone in closer. at first they were with me all day except for 1 hour in their room on their beds while baby slept and when they went to the bathroom. and for a while we did that as a group too. i would sit in the hall supervising until they went to sleep at night and occasionally spent "nap time" in the hall. nap time was my MDC time so i was always close by. as they started to internalize some better behavior habits I would gradually increase the space between us and pull them back in as needed.

good luck.

I wouldn't let your dad pressure you into anything. that is really unfair that he is doing that.

do you need that break? could you maybe do a few weeks in the summer? school is almost out for the year. I don't think it would be the worst thing to wait another 10-12 weeks. especially if you are going to be seeking counseling and trying to get to the root of his issues and considering treatment options.

ETA: read some more. i wouldn't send him back to your dads. ever. he is not to be trusted. he does not sound like an ally.


----------



## singlemomof4 (Jan 12, 2008)

So...it's been a very exciting couple days. DS scheduled return was supposed to be tonight around 4 pm. However, apparently when my father brought it up to tell DS what was going to be happening yesterday my son immediately started packing and said he wanted to come home now. (as in yesterday at 4 ish)
Our home phone rang around 3 pm, and DS on the other end saying "Mommy I am calling to say hi and umm I am coming home" I replied thinking he had been told and that he was refering to tomorrow (today) but he said "No Mommy I mean like right now Grandpa and I are packing up mythings and I will be home for dinner" !!!!! YAY















There were no words at all spoken between my father and I when he brought him home, but a quick angry glance my way as I stumbled over excited siblings greeting their big brother at the door trying to bring his things in. I have a whole slew of super annoying things that DS has informed me; voluntarily, that happened while staying with Grandpa that I really really want to call him up and tear a strip off him for bt have realized it really doesn't make much sense now. I have my baby home! One day sooner than anticipated but he is right where he belongs!!!
I am sure I will end up ranting tomorrow on here about everything DS told me about, but for last night and today thus far I am just enjoying having my lil man home again








I would like to keep this thread open to discussion as I am sure that all postings before now and following will be of great importance and good use to me in the future.


----------



## medicmama (May 5, 2006)

Congrats! I've been following along but had no usefull advice. Glad to see your baby home!


----------



## HarperRose (Feb 22, 2007)

Congratulations!!!


----------



## Blueena (Apr 3, 2007)

So happy for you, you tried something new and it didn't work, but now you have your little man back and a fresh perspective and fresh energy to help him, yourself and your little ones! congrats on his homecoming!


----------



## want2bmoms (Feb 8, 2008)

WooHoo!!!!


----------



## Jennifer Z (Sep 15, 2002)

I am so glad you guys are together again. You can do this. Healing can hurt at times, but it is so worth it in the end.

Much love to you guys.









I'll keep watching this thread and praying for you all as you move into this new phase in your lives.


----------



## suprgrl (Sep 27, 2005)

Yay! You all have been through so much. I am so glad to hear things are working out for you all! You are such a caring Mama who obviously does her best to do her best.


----------



## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

its not easy being a special needs parent and it must be so hard to be in this current place to mae this decision. I suggest you put this is in the special needs forum where you will get advice more tailored to your situation from people who have been where you are right now.


----------



## singlemomof4 (Jan 12, 2008)

I have absolutely no idea how to put a thread into another forum! LOL I am only new to this whole online community threads and forums. Please help


----------



## singlemomof4 (Jan 12, 2008)

Not to imply that I cannot respond to everyones posts up til now, BUT I want to say a HUGE thank you to all who have been supportive in giving advice and suggestions to myself and my family in our time of great need. I want you all to know I have read all your posts...unfortunately cannot possible individually respond to each.. Our time is just beginning, and now not need in despiration, but rather a time of guidance, support and care from anyone around us to keep us going.

Day 5 of DS being home again: I am finding it increasingly difficult to ignore his sny remarks and seemingly insults towards myself and the other children in the home. Mostly comments regarding my behaviour such as "Grandpa said you needed lots of help Mommy, ARE you getting it at all?" What on earth should I respond to that!!?? I want to scream; "you know your grandfather and step grandma aren't perfect you know!! Even though they pretend to be" But I dont!. I just listen, bite my tongue and hope to god my teeth hold still so I won't slip up and scream something totally not meant for him but in direction to his family he lived with for ONLY 2 1/2 weeks. Seriously, how is it possible they messed with his head this much in only 17 days!!!

Other comments like, opening our fridge and saying blatently with a straight face, rude tone and all; "Umm you KNOW, Grandpa and *****'s frigde never looks this empty. And they always have lots of snacks and junk foods Mommy" WHAT THE HECK!!! I am a single, stay at home mother on assistance with FOUR children!!! NOT a married couple with teenage children, two jobs each, etc etc. I really am beginning to wonder why it is he thinks that this way of speaking to his mother is acceptable. He never used to talk to me this way before his extended stay away from home.

Or the BEST ones yet are when he looks at me doing housework and notices the mess of toys, dishes, clothing etc surrounding me and walks away shaking his head saying "What a mess you have here! You KNOW in Grandpas house there is never a mess like this. Their house is so clean and clothes always put away.- We should get a house like theirs and maybe you could keep it clean Mommy"







: I always counter this comment with a response that not only makes DS more angry and seemingly disgusted but also causes me to feel even more worthless. i say "I am sorry that our hosue isn't as large and clean as their hosue is. But you know Braydon, there are alot of differences between our lives (Grandpas and ours). I only have me to clean, tidy, cook etc. I only have ONE very VERY small income to work with."

I love him to death! I want things to work between us but if this new habit of putting me down doesn't give soon......OH my! I don't want him to go anywhere ever again, don't misunderstand my words please but from one single, feeling helpless mama to a network of others....Someone PLEASE HELP!!!


----------



## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

_mom . . you need lots of help_

lets talk about what you can do to start helping me.
_
grandpas fridge is never this empty_

get over it and get out of the fridge

_why can't you keep this house clean?
_
because I have a bunch of little kids who won't help. here . . start folding these clothes. . . .

He is eight. he is old enough to help out and old enough to watch his mouth. You need to consistently insist that he help, consistently correct inappropriate behavior and inappropriate speech without yelling or giving in. You do not need to apologize for being different than your dad, you do no need to apologize for not having a lot of food in your fridge (it doesn't sound like anyone is going hungry), you don't need to apologize that your house is a mess nor do you need to apologize for making him pick up after himself.


----------



## montlake (Mar 13, 2008)

he's been through a lot of trauma. give him some space to make comments you don't like right now. then stop trying to make him see from your point of view when he does it and invite his suggestions/help. if he doesn't think it's clean enough suggest he help you.


----------



## Jilian (Jun 16, 2003)

I agree that he is old enough to help out, if he feels the house is messy then tell him to help you clean it. Do not allow him to talk to you disrespectfully. You need to set the example of how you want to be treated. If he says something really hurtfull to you say "That hurts my feelings and I will not allow you to talk to me that way" you can offer him an alternative that is phrased nicely or you can choose to offer a punishment - like going to his room. Personally I'd offer the alternative and then if he continued I'd ask him to go to his room.


----------



## want2bmoms (Feb 8, 2008)

I agree with PPs. He needs to be respectful. DS, I'm sorry you don't like ______, you are a big boy, you can help it be better by ___________.

"What a mess you have here! You KNOW in Grandpas house there is never a mess like this. Their house is so clean and clothes always put away.- We should get a house like theirs and maybe you could keep it clean Mommy"
We are a family, why don't you get the little kids to help you clean up the living room, see if you can get them to race you!
Then:
*you wash, he dries.
*he picks up the toys and trash, you vaccume.
*you wash, he folds.
"Umm you KNOW, Grandpa and *****'s frigde never looks this empty. And they always have lots of snacks and junk foods Mommy"*He helps with shopping. IF -AND ONLY IF- he has been helping you out, he can pick a treat as a reward ("you know, I'm really impressed with the way you have _(picked up the toys nicely)_ would you like to pick a box of Zingers/baseball cards/cookie mix/etc this week? (one of the snack cake items that are usually a dollar at walmart.) Also, should we get oranges or apples this week? Bananas or grapes? etc.****Don't do this every week, it will become expected.

And TURN TWO!!!! When he says
"Grandpa said you needed lots of help Mommy, ARE you getting it at all?" Hmm, that's interesting, what kind of help do you think I need? Listen to what he says. If the answer is "I don't know" then tell him you must be ok and he needs to stop worrying about it. If he tells you something specific, ask why, until you get to the root of his concerns, if he says "grandpa says"etc, "I didn't ask what *grandpa* said, I want to know YOUR thoughts."

But mostly, turn two, remember when everything you said was why? Well, it's his turn. Eventually, you'll get to the root of the problems, or he will stop complaining and get over it. be honest with you answers, don't make excuses, and respond with "why is it so important?" or some such thing, so he has to explain everything. (YOu may discover what's really cothering him.)


----------



## Blu Razzberri (Sep 27, 2006)

Sit down with a paper and write his name in the top corner. Then write a list of age-appropriate chores on them (maybe something he can do each night after school...like take the trash to the curb on ..uhh..Wednesday?) Then call him down and say all chippy "have a seat I have somethign to talk to you about"

Say "You know; you're right about Grandpa and *****'s house being cleaner. There are two reasons for this: one, older kids make less messes; and two, because everyone pitches in to clean the the house and to tidy up after themselves. It got me thinking that it's time to put an action plan into place. We won't be able to make the house as clean as theirs because the kids here are all small still and need help to clean up after themselves. But it doesn't mean you and I can't start pitching in together to keep it as clean as we can."

Introduce the list of chores; and go over them with him. Then explain that he's free to help teach the other kids how to pick up after themselves when they're done playing; and that the two of you can work as a team on this issue.


----------



## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

Do you have any resources for help in approaching these things for a child with ADHD? I know here we have a family centre that has councilors and parent training type stuff. It would be invaluable to you to get some situation specific ideas as things that work with *most* kids (even difficult ones) may not work with your ds. Does he have ODD as well?

The main thing is to focus on the positive feedback more than correcting the behaviour. Strict guidelines are okay for a kid with ADHD, but redirection should be positive and his environment really needs to be set up for success.

Small, easy tasks or chores that he can do (and don't take too much time or too many steps) would be great. And he likely will need lots of reminders and redirection to do them. Stuff like, "Please put the dirty clothes in the hamper now." And as many PATIENT reminders to stay on task as necessary. Lots of praise is helpful too, "Wow, you sure are fast at that!". Praise isn't ideal for all kids, but *these* kids really need the direct, positive input. Avoid lectures, punishments, and the like as that focuses on the negative and will lead to bigger troubles later on. If he is in fact ADHD you have to approach things a little differently.

Also, please pursue the proper dx. You will end up in the same situation you were in before if you don't figure out what is going on with him and figure out the most effective way to deal with it.

Good luck and I am so happy your boy is home again!


----------



## singlemomof4 (Jan 12, 2008)

Moving thread to Single Parenting Forum. Link is as follows: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=866516 PLEASE continue to follow and help as much as possible


----------



## Kristine233 (Jul 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
_mom . . you need lots of help_

lets talk about what you can do to start helping me.
_
grandpas fridge is never this empty_

get over it and get out of the fridge

_why can't you keep this house clean?
_
because I have a bunch of little kids who won't help. here . . start folding these clothes. . . .

He is eight. he is old enough to help out and old enough to watch his mouth. You need to consistently insist that he help, consistently correct inappropriate behavior and inappropriate speech without yelling or giving in. You do not need to apologize for being different than your dad, you do no need to apologize for not having a lot of food in your fridge (it doesn't sound like anyone is going hungry), you don't need to apologize that your house is a mess nor do you need to apologize for making him pick up after himself.

This, totally.

BTW, 8 and 9 year olds have reached the magical age of "sass". Attitude like this can be typical of ANY child this age, they don't need to have a special need to make rude comments and sass. They are gifted at it at this age. lol

When my kids started to not respect me, and make comments about mess etc we put them to work. (mostly just the oldest, but we curtailed it in the other 2 as well) I'm one mom, they are 3 kids. I'm married, but for years Dh was a over-the-road truck driver so he'd be gone for 2 weeks at a time (home now but works long hours). We now have a white board in my office with the days of the week and age appropriate chores to do. Its color coded and each day they have a couple chores to complete. They get home from school, check the board and do their chores. It doesn't take them long and gives them responsibility. We then discuss the chores before dinner as a family and make sure everyone has homework and chores done. Everything being done means we get to do a family time activity. (game, movie etc) Having great reviews all week means they get to pick something extra special to do on the weekend. Everything getting done and helping mom means more time for this "fun" stuff.

Examples:

Laundry, mom does all the laundry but they rotate bringing down dirty laundry and bringing up clean laundry and they work together to sort it and make sure it gets to the right bedrooms. We do this everyday so its never a lot and is a quick easy chore.

Vacuuming, the little one uses the mini-hand-vac to do the steps crevices. (PITA with the big vacuum)

They each clean their rooms everyday. Ds is a neat freak so his is easy and the girls share a room.

Easy stuff like that and its gets rotated.


----------

