# Dear Polite Offender,



## homebirthing (Nov 10, 2002)

Dear Polite Offender,

You don't know me. I am the woman that walked in with her five beautiful children. We met at a mutual friends house. I am the woman to whom you stared blankly, silently counting my kids...at which point you loudly and rudely exclaimed..."Are these all your kids? OH MY GOD!!!" You said this with a true look of horror on your face. My children witnessed this. Ms. Offender, at my house, and in my family, we absolutely don't take the Lords name in vain. Not to mention that you said so right in front of my kids, not to mention that you found it appalling that I have five children. Aren't you lucky that my triplet died in utero, I wouldn't want you to have a heart attack. Thank goodness for small favors. Next time I will look at you and say, "Wow, what are you, barren?"...oh wait, that would be incredibly hurtful and tactless and horribly insulting and painful. Not to mention just plain rude.

Ms. Politeness, I am wondering on what planet you get to have an opinion on how many children I have? I ask this question because when you sat down next to me and said "So, are you done yet...or are you going to have more?" I thought that maybe YOU thought that I was in some way a part of your life. When you said "yet" like I somehow go around vomiting out children without cause or reason...like I needed to get your permission for each one. I'm sorry, but do I know you? Do you have a say in the lives of my children? Do you even know my name? Do you know my story? Do you know what it took to get these beautiful (if not naughty) children. Do you know how I suffered? Yet you get to look at me, right in my eyes, and question me...on whether or not I am done yet? How does it matter to you, stranger that I will never see again? What if I have five more? What if I have none?

Ms. P.O., When you come in and say that "They are all too much for you, you have to leave...they are too (fill in the blanks, I was seeing red)..." well, you pretty much just don't say that. You can leave, please. I will warm up your car for you. See you now, bye bye!!

You have to understand, those of you with minimal children, that there is nothing wrong with a large family, although five isn't large. I bet that my "carbon footprint" with a family of seven living my lifestyle is less then her family of one. But I won't go there. I wouldn't want to be a polite offender.

Sarah B. mother of five horrible nasty rotten earth ruiners


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## mama_ani (Aug 2, 2007)

Sarah... I am so sorry someone acted so appallingly to you.








:

And now one for me...

_Dear Brother
No, I am not "one kid away from religious nut family." I don't think "religious nut" is a number. Also, making jokes that you will have to change our last name to "Wacko Waco" if we have more children shows that you don't even know that most people at Waco didn't even have large families so you might want to work on the accuracy of your insults.
Thanks._


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## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

Oh, honey, your family is beautiful!

My parents were young when they started (which invited all types of comments alone), and had four of us, which also triggered a lot of rude comments despite being one less than your family. People used to go around saying to my mom with a look of shock and horror, "Are _these_ all yours?" As if we weren't humans, but some stack of things my mother had been dragging around. I hope you take some comfort in the fact that these comments never phased us, the kids.


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## La Rune (Sep 19, 2008)

I'm sorry. Your kids didn't need to be subjected to hearing her opinion.









I don't know why some people say things like that.


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoulaSarah* 
Dear Polite Offender,

You don't know me. I am the woman that walked in with her five beautiful children. We met at a mutual friends house. I am the woman to whom you stared blankly, silently counting my kids...at which point you loudly and rudely exclaimed..."Are these all your kids? OH MY GOD!!!" You said this with a true look of horror on your face. My children witnessed this. Ms. Offender, at my house, and in my family, we absolutely don't take the Lords name in vain. Not to mention that you said so right in front of my kids, not to mention that you found it appalling that I have five children. Aren't you lucky that my triplet died in utero, I wouldn't want you to have a heart attack. Thank goodness for small favors. Next time I will look at you and say, "Wow, what are you, barren?"...oh wait, that would be incredibly hurtful and tactless and horribly insulting and painful. Not to mention just plain rude.

Ms. Politeness, I am wondering on what planet you get to have an opinion on how many children I have? I ask this question because when you sat down next to me and said "So, are you done yet...or are you going to have more?" I thought that maybe YOU thought that I was in some way a part of your life. When you said "yet" like I somehow go around vomiting out children without cause or reason...like I needed to get your permission for each one. I'm sorry, but do I know you? Do you have a say in the lives of my children? Do you even know my name? Do you know my story? Do you know what it took to get these beautiful (if not naughty) children. Do you know how I suffered? Yet you get to look at me, right in my eyes, and question me...on whether or not I am done yet? How does it matter to you, stranger that I will never see again? What if I have five more? What if I have none?

Ms. P.O., When you come in and say that "They are all too much for you, you have to leave...they are too (fill in the blanks, I was seeing red)..." well, you pretty much just don't say that. You can leave, please. I will warm up your car for you. See you now, bye bye!!

You have to understand, those of you minimal children, that there is nothing wrong with a large family, although five isn't large. I bet that my "carbon footprint" with a family of seven living my lifestyle is less then her family of one. But I won't go there. I wouldn't want to be a polite offender.

Sarah B. mother of five horrible nasty rotten earth ruiners









:









Thank you for putting into words the thoughts that have crossed my mind MANY, MANY times.








Some people just don't think.


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## tinybutterfly (May 31, 2004)

I am so sorry you have both had to go through this.









It's none of anyone's business how many children are in anyone's family...none, one, the usual two or more, or lots more. No one else's business.

Sometimes maybe people are surprised, since larger families are unusual these days, so it may SOUND like they disapprove, when really they are just surprised and don't know what to say. Or maybe they don't feel like they could personally deal with many children, since they are overwhelmed already with the ones they have.

And I guess there are people who ARE judging you and saying mean things that shouldn't be said.

Enjoy all your children. My mom came from a family of six ( really seven, but one passed away at two years of age) my dad from a family of five, but back then larger families weren't unusual.

Just enjoy your babies...you are blessed.


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## Dabble (Jun 14, 2007)

How disgustingly rude and thoughtless that woman must have been. I'm sure you're still seething and thinking of the things you wish you had said to her. I'm sorry you had to experience that. Just know that not everyone thinks that way.


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## momo7 (Apr 10, 2005)

I wish.....I wish people who said these things to us (mothers with big families, and yes five is a big number when those around you are "only" having one or two) knew how much it hurts, how completely devastaing it is for it to be said in front of our children. Even then, I wonder, would they still say it? The looks would be so comical if they weren't so rude, the comments would be water off a duck's back if our children didn't have to hear them.

Ms. Politeness, which one, tell me, if I stood them up against a wall, should never have been born? You will never, ever know how truly unselfish you have to be to "have that many children" and that's the real pity.

To deal with it from a stranger is hard, to hear it from your own family members is almost unbearable.


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## homebirthing (Nov 10, 2002)

The sad thing is that I have heard that from members of my family. It isn't as negative when they say it, but it is still hard to hear. The only person who truly gets to have an opinion other then my husband is my MIL. She does help to support us, and I respect her a lot. She loves each and every one of my kids so much! The fact is that I don't think that I will have more, not because I don't want more, but because I get so so sick when I am pregnant.


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momo7* 
I wish.....I wish people who said these things to us (mothers with big families, and yes five is a big number when those around you are "only" having one or two) knew how much it hurts, how completely devastaing it is for it to be said in front of our children. Even then, I wonder, would they still say it? The looks would be so comical if they weren't so rude, the comments would be water off a duck's back if our children didn't have to hear them.

Ms. Politeness, which one, tell me, if I stood them up against a wall, should never have been born? You will never, ever know how truly unselfish you have to be to "have that many children" and that's the real pity.

To deal with it from a stranger is hard, to hear it from your own family members is almost unbearable.



























You know how many sex talks have come up with my children as a result of inappropriate comments from strangers?









"Oh...don't you know how that happens?"

"Can't you keep you wife off you?"

"Don't you know what birth control is?"

All with complete shock or disgust on their faces. And this started with baby #3!


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoulaSarah* 
The sad thing is that I have heard that from members of my family. It isn't as negative when they say it, but it is still hard to hear. The only person who truly gets to have an opinion other then my husband is my MIL. She does help to support us, and I respect her a lot. She loves each and every one of my kids so much! The fact is that I don't think that I will have more, not because I don't want more, but because I get so so sick when I am pregnant.

My mother's response to baby #4 was "That is f***ing HORRIBLE!"


















And







 about feeling so ill when being pregnant.


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## kellykins (Oct 13, 2004)

(a mama of one and one in the belly speaking here)
I am so sorry someone was so rude like that. Seriously??? Your kids are so rediculously adorable, I just dont understand what crosses peoples minds to say things like that? Why do people think it is ok to make comments like that? now, I know on the other end, many many people comment on singelton kids as well, "when are you going to have another?" etc... I blows my mind.... What, do people see a certain # of kids to be acceptable? and above or below that not???
grrrrrrrr!!!!!!


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## homebirthing (Nov 10, 2002)

Kellykins...If I ask women if they are planning more, it is usually birth related! As in, how was your first birth, are you having more?!!


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## ShwarmaQueen (Mar 28, 2008)

So rude!

She's just jealous and lets her mouth run before her brain processes her thoughts. You're so blessed to have those beautiful babes (and a hottie DH) so don't let her steal your joy.







:


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## Jannah6 (Aug 29, 2007)

I wonder why people think they have a right to comment on the size of other peoples families???














: This women was WAY over the top


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## AkRotts (Sep 2, 2007)

How RUDE!!!!!







I am shocked and appalled that someone actually said that to you. First of all it is nobodies business how many kids you have. Who does she think she is saying something like that, especially in front of the children







:

As the mother of 5 (three of them age 2 and under), I too have gotten rude comments and looks. Especially when I was obviously pregnant and had my infant twins with me







I try REALLY hard not to let it get to me (of course mine are too young right now to understand when people make rude comments), but it's not always easy to do.

I LOVE my large family and I am so thankful to have each and every one of them!!!


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## DeerMother (Apr 22, 2008)

I think children are a blessing and a family with five is super duper blessed. Count me in the camp who thinks it is none of my business how many you have. And - those ringlets are precious. And - as a mother with only twins, I've admire mamas who have twins and other children - I can only imagine how busy you are and how loud and happy your house is!


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## Breathless Wonder (Jan 25, 2004)

I am so sorry she said that to you. Having BTDT, I can totally empathize!


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## bscal (Feb 13, 2006)

I starting getting comments when I was pg with #3. I plan to have at least one more child, but would love to have 2 more children. I cannot stand ppl who feel the need to comment on your family size. It is NONE of their business.

I have a bit of a temper, especially when it comes to my kids... so I've been known to be a bit snarky to people at times. For example, the woman who started going on and on about how "girls these days just don't have any morals" and "I bet that one is on welfare" and "I wish they'd just keep their legs crossed" in a loud tone to her friend (I was very pregnant w/DS and had ODD (4 at the time) and YDD (16 mos at the time) with me ... and wasn't wearing my rings). I marched right up to her... and very calmly said "Look, I don't know who you think you are but you don't know me or anything about me. My husband and I have been HAPPILY MARRIED FOR ALMOST NINE YEARS! We have always planned to have a large family. My husband works hard to support our family so that I can stay home and raise the children and care for our home. We are self - sufficient and pay our own way... so why do you speak so badly about us? Oh, and for the record I am NOT as young as I look, in fact, I just turned 31." I then turned around and went to the checkout at the grocery store like nothing had happened. But really, even if I was a pregnant teen on welfare, what business is it of hers? Or, with this economy what if I was on food stamps? She doesn't know my situation, why should she judge? It makes me SO mad when ppl do that.

Oh, and OP you are my hero. I would LOVE to have 5... I haven't managed to talk DH into 5 yet though... we're going to revisit that discussion after #4. And your kids are beautiful!

Beth


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## Zach'smom (Nov 5, 2004)

People can be incredibly rude. It doesn't matter whether you have one kid or 18. I have spent years listening to people ask me when I am going to have another child. Ds is an only and I have had a complete stranger tell me it is child abuse to have just one!! Then one time we had a plumber here and ds (about 4 at the time) and I were watching the plumber work. The plumber asked ds if he had any brothers or sisters. When ds said no the plumber asked "aren't you lonely?"







How insane is that!!!! Then I was helping out a friend by watching her 4 kids for an afternoon. I had to run to the grocery store with all 5 of them. They were well behaved and the older ones were helping me with the little ones. A woman came up to me with a look of horror on her face and asked me how I kept them in line without slapping them up. I was flabbergasted. I just hustled all of the kids away from her. After we left the store I thought of all sorts of wonderful thingds I could have said to her. Somehow I think if you don't have the standard 2 kids people think it is ok to comment on your family size.


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

Oh my goodness your DH is a hottie no wonder you had 5!









nak Anyone who can incubate for 9 months, deliver a babe and raise that babe, then rinse and repeat 5 times







should be worshipped.


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

*Thank goodness for small favors. Next time I will look at you and say, "Wow, what are you, barren?"*

















:

OMG I am so sorry that hag said those things to you, but THIS was priceless and gave me a fantastic giggle!

Hug your beautiful babies and ignore de crazy folk! She's just jealous...when she's old and decrepit there won't be anyone to insult for the holidays!









Bellevuemama


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## 2xshy (Nov 27, 2007)

My mother told me I better not have another ever if i don't get married.








I don't think she knows how badly a comment like that hurts.


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## Avani (Feb 14, 2006)

As a single and pregnant mama to 5, soon to be 6, i totally commiserate with you. I am tirelessly asked how can i not abort this baby when i already have so many kids on my own with no other parent involved. When i visited the clinic for a pregnancy test i was asked by 4 nurses if i would be aborting and how in the world did i intend to care for 6 when i already have 5. My small and very hippy town is being very judgemental towards me and i am tired of it. I am sorry that i was abused by my previous husband and had to leave the father of my 5 children. I'm sorry that the courts decided the father could have no involvement but also ordered no child support. I am sorry that my partner who is the father to this child suddenly decided he wanted nothing to do with me or the baby when i was 10 weeks along. It was too late for me to feel ok with an abortion although i don't think i ever could. I am also sorry that i was taking a birth control pill that apparently did not work because yes i was taking precautions, and yes i understand it appears that i am careless since i am pregnant and single. It isn't easy, it wasn't all by choice but darnit it is no ones business.


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## Maluhia (Jun 24, 2007)

Sarah - you are beautiful, your children look darling and I'm so very sorry for your loss of one of your children.

That woman is a moron, as are most who think commenting on families of any size is appropriate, and I hope your mutual friend says something to her regarding her rude behavior.


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## MichaelsSahm (May 11, 2006)

I wish people would just mind themselfs.

People just need to live their life and hush. LOL!


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## mama_in_PA (Nov 30, 2007)

I'm pg with my 4th and have two step-kids so I get a lot of comments as well. I'm pretty mouthy too when people step out of line. I've run out of patience trying to come up with witty comebacks so I just say something like, "what on earth makes you think that it's even remotely ok to say something so terrible like that to me? Why don't you just shut your big mouth and mind your own business!" I have to agree that it's much worse when it comes from family. My situation goes a step further because my first two have different fathers. Somehow I missed the blaring neon sign over my head that not only gives permission to people to say rude and harrassing things but demands it. My tongue grow sharper with each jerk who feels compelled to thrust their opinion in my face.

When we found out we were having this one, I called to announce the news to my dad. He first said, "wow, you're really turning into a baby factory, aren't you?" Then he said, "Well, at least now you'll have two kids with the same dad." Thanks dad.


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## MG01 (Nov 17, 2008)

Wow.. some people.. I am sorry you had to deal with this. You have a gorgeous family!! I loved the letter as well.. makes very clear what should be (but isn't) obvious as to the limits on the appropriateness of commenting on someone's family.

You just can't win- if you have a "large" family, it's too big (like you weren't aware of the number of children you chose to bear).. But if you have "only" one, you are depriving your child of a sibling, and if you have one or more when unmarried, divorced, or low-income, well you should be ashamed! I'm really looking forward to hearing what people have to say about my li'l family too..


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

thats crazy, I am so sorry. I only have 3 and I already start seeing those people looking at me.

_I kinda want more. But I am insane so we will see if "they" let me_.


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## Purple*Lotus (Nov 1, 2007)

What nerve of that person!







I just had to post that your children are gorgeous


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

People are stupid. I've gotten comments for only having just one too. I don't know why people think they have a right to tell other people what size family is right for them.


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## momo7 (Apr 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngelBee* 
















You know how many sex talks have come up with my children as a result of inappropriate comments from strangers?









"Oh...don't you know how that happens?"

"Can't you keep you wife off you?"

"Don't you know what birth control is?"

All with complete shock or disgust on their faces. And this started with baby #3!










I went to my grandmother's funeral last year, my cousin whom I had not seen for 20 years, does not bother to say "hello", but does say: "Haven't you EVER heard of a vasectomy?"

NICE huh?









This is a girl who married into money, very well off...I wanted to say "Well I see that all that money hasn't bought you any manners either." I didn't . I wanted to. I should have, but I didn't.









The other comments were "OMFG!" (so awful) "Wow, don't you know what causes that?" "Aren't you EVER going to stop?" and "Is HE the father of them all?" I just love that one.


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## momo7 (Apr 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Avani* 
As a single and pregnant mama to 5, soon to be 6, i totally commiserate with you. I am tirelessly asked how can i not abort this baby when i already have so many kids on my own with no other parent involved. When i visited the clinic for a pregnancy test i was asked by 4 nurses if i would be aborting and how in the world did i intend to care for 6 when i already have 5. My small and very hippy town is being very judgemental towards me and i am tired of it. I am sorry that i was abused by my previous husband and had to leave the father of my 5 children. I'm sorry that the courts decided the father could have no involvement but also ordered no child support. I am sorry that my partner who is the father to this child suddenly decided he wanted nothing to do with me or the baby when i was 10 weeks along. It was too late for me to feel ok with an abortion although i don't think i ever could. I am also sorry that i was taking a birth control pill that apparently did not work because yes i was taking precautions, and yes i understand it appears that i am careless since i am pregnant and single. It isn't easy, it wasn't all by choice but darnit it is no ones business.


But you see you know what sacrifice is and THAT is the whole point. There is nothing in this world that will make you want to give more, take less and give more joy to you than your children. You are doing the best you can and in the process you bring into the world a soul who has something to give back to you for all your hard work and sacrifice......love.

What is a child's love worth? What would you trade it for? Your family's approval? A man that you want to stay but doesn't love or respect you or his child? Society's ideal of what you should be? A new house with a larger mortgage? Name anything.....is it worth your child's love for his/her mother?

The world and anything in it is nothing compared to what a child can give back to you. I had to learn this lesson the hard way and it took a really long time. I still struggle with it, but truth is truth and when you know it, there's no getting away from it.


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## talk de jour (Apr 21, 2005)

This childless and probably barren lady has nothing but respect for people with a bunch of kids! God bless you for being such a great mom to your *blessings*, Sarah.


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## bmcneal (Nov 12, 2006)

I'm sorry that woman said that to you.







I don't know why some people think it's alright to comment about other peoples' families.







I can't imagine anyone thinking they have the right to say some of the things they say. I've *always* wanted a big family. Seriously, 8 or 9 to me would be amazing. (#2 is still baking, so it will be awhile before we start talks of that nature, but just saying.)

We only have DD and LO on the way, and already people are saying how we must be "done" because now "you have your boy and your girl."







I know DH would like to have one more, and like I said, 8 or 9 doesn't sound too bad to me. When I say that I would like to have more, everyone looks at me like I'm insane, or thinks I'm being irresponsible, even if *they* have more kids than 2. *shakes head* I'm so sorry, OP, that people are so insensitive.







Your family is beautiful.


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## Asher (Aug 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jannah6* 
I wonder why people think they have a right to comment on the size of other peoples families???














: This women was WAY over the top









I don't understand it either. Unless someone is personally contributing to your household finances, IMO, they have no right to make any comments on your family size.

It started with #3 for us, too. Now that #5 is on the way, the comments come out of the woodwork. I especially hate it when the kids hear. And I agree, many times I have been tempted to ask which one they thought should not be here.


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## pandora665 (Mar 13, 2006)

As a mother of one with a painful and high risk birth/pregnancy history, I am offended to have a stranger asking about "when are you having another one?" My DD isn't old enough to ask for a sibling yet, but I don't want to have the discussion about it every time this is asked by (we'll hope) well-meaning strangers.

Why can't people say something like "I can see you've got a wonderful family" regardless of your no-kid/1 kid/many kid status? Why are our reproductive lives such an important topic of discussion? We don't talk about politics or religion in mixed company, but somehow my uterus is now a great place to start?

People are weird. This is my motto in times of bewilderment.

Sorry to hear about your most recent experience with the weirdness of people!


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## Breathless Wonder (Jan 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Asher* 
I don't understand it either. Unless someone is personally contributing to your household finances, IMO, they have no right to make any comments on your family size.

Even if they ARE contributing to your finances- they have no right at all to say anything!

They are more than welcome to KEEP their money, and their opinions to themselves, and allow a person to find another way to pay the bills. And if they decide to continue to contribute, they don't get to put conditions on it after the fact. Period.


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## mom2threenurslings (Jul 16, 2002)

:

I get the "are they ALL yours" or "you're done having kids, right?" comment all the time - I have five kids.

We ARE done having kids (well, if dh ever gets his vasectomy!







), but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have more if we wanted to.

I try to have fun with it ... adding a little more shock value by saying things like, "Yes, and they're mine 24/7 because we homeschool." or "Yes ... and the last two were born at home." or "Yes, but you'll have to excuse me because the baby needs to go potty" (we EC ... and did this with my infants- this tends to put people into total shock when they find out I'm serious) or I just get it all over with quickly, "Yes, they're all mine, Yes, they're all wanted, they're all homeschooled, the ones with the long hair are boys, the ones with the short hair are girls, we live on under $35,000 a year, and we only have one bathroom. Any questions?"


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## Swan3 (Aug 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoulaSarah* 
You have to understand, those of you with minimal children, that there is nothing wrong with a large family, although five isn't large. I bet that my "carbon footprint" with a family of seven living my lifestyle is less then her family of one. But I won't go there. I wouldn't want to be a polite offender.

OMG, I can't believe anyone would behave this way. I'm so sorry.

I remember seeing a quote
"Better to have your hands full than your heart empty"...sounds like you have the former and Ms Politeness the latter.


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## nolonger (Jan 18, 2006)

Your family size is none of my business. My family size is no one's business either, although my DECEASED CHILDLESS sister once told me in writing that she wanted me to have four children since she wasn't planning on having any.

Oh, and I'd love to have another child when PPAF comes back. I'm almost 44 and single.


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## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
People are stupid. I've gotten comments for only having just one too.

I am an only child, and just today a friend of mine was talking about a completely obnoxious jerk we both used to work with, and mentioned twice about how he's an only child (and that's obviously why he's a totally spoiled brat).


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## Jannah6 (Aug 29, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Asher* 
I don't understand it either. Unless someone is personally contributing to your household finances, IMO, they have no right to make any comments on your family size.


My aunt doesn't financially contribute, but she helps me with my DC and she raised me. She also knows that I have tough pregnancies, so I don't mind her askiing me if I plan on having more.


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## runes (Aug 5, 2004)

Wow, how incredibly rude. Your children are absolutely gorgeous!

I'm a mama of one, we are not sure if/when we may have another. We have people telling us all the time how we HAVE TO have another baby, how WRONG it would be for us not to produce a sibling for DD, etc etc.

It seems one child is unacceptable, two kids are considered the ideal, three kids are pushing the envelope, then any more than that is unacceptable again.

It's so weird.


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## Ceinwen (Jul 1, 2004)

I am the oldest of a family of five children - my biggest pet peeve as a child/teen was strangers/friends/family members asking 'Are your parents having more?'

Uh - they don't really discuss that with me, but thanks!
















The worst comment (but funny) was from a girlfriend of my uncle (we were five under seven at that point)...

'It's like a bunch of bunnies - you guys sure reproduce!'









My dad just about blew a gasket, but my mum laughed.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

try not to let her get to ya!

I've heard similar, too. After we brought #4 over to one of DH's friends house, he said, "I thought they automatically tie your tubes after the third nowdays?"








: wtf?

and he had no clue I've had all c-sections so he wasn't saying it from a surgical birth aspect... just thought it was obviously too many children.

Also, I swear people tend to assume our children were unplanned. Really, it's quite the opposite. We know what causes babies and have always tried to get pregnant right after the previous turned a year. Not that there is anything wrong with surprise babies, it's just annoying that if you have more than 2, the subsequent pregnancies surely were an accident.

I honestly don't mind being asked if we are done or having more. Of course, if it's said in a hurtful way it sucks... otherwise I love saying we are hoping for a couple more. The look on their face is worth being asked a personal question









just recently when I was shopping with *only* 3 of my kids, a lady seemed so shocked after asking me if they were all mine. I wish I had told her I had 7 more at home








ETA: and you really do have a gorgeous family, I wonder if people are honestly jealous?


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## ecoteat (Mar 3, 2006)

So it sounds like the "correct" number of children is two.







More than that gets crappy comments and one gets the "when are you having more?"

We are a family of three. DD will be an only child. I know people's intentions are good when I get comments about having another--they usually are suggesting that dd is a great kid and a sibling surely would be too--but it does get annoying sometimes. I can understand friendly conversation about other people's families, but the rude comments are unexcusable.


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## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

Okay, I just saw this LOL:


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## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

To the OP and to anyone else who had this happen, just pay no mind to such ignorance and stupidity. I have a very short patience string for such people.

It does not matter how much children people decide to have. Nobody can tell someone what to do with and how to use their reproductive organs. If they choose to have one or two, or ten or twenty!

If it were me, I'd have had a little fun with it. I'd have said, "Heck no! Done! What do you mean?! This is only the beginning! I'm planning to have at least ten more! And if my body can handle it, and i'm happy after the ten more I bear, I'm not stopping until menopause, until my good old womanly organs give out and are not able to reproduce. God gave them to me, and I'll use them for their intended purpose. Didn't he say to be fruitful and multiply? Read the first three chapters of Genesis, which contains the story of Adam and even and what instructions they were given." If she have asked me if they were all mine, I'd have said, "No, I just kidnapped them. They are stolen property. Watch for it on the Amber alert tonight." Some people deserve the sarcasm. I'm sorry if this post turns anyone off, but rather than get angry, now i do things diferently and give stupid answers to those who ask stupid and pointless questions.

I'm sorry again that any of you have to deal with this. Try to have a good day and push such negativity out of your mind. Who needs them?


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## MOMYS (Nov 5, 2008)

Sierra, thank you so much for the link! It was just so spot on!

To the OP: we have 6 children (all boys) and one on the way.... I am so, so, so sick and tired of the totally personal comments people make! I wish I had the guts to actually say to them what I'm thinking. Instead I usually just smile sweetly and say: "Yes, we are very blessed!"

But this is what I think:
Are they all yours? _No, I collect them! Do you have any you can't cope with?_
Do you know what causes it? _Yes, and we like it? Obviously you don't?_
Don't you have a tv? _Shame, your poor dh/dw! Do you honestly prefer watching tv than making love?_
Shame, all boys? _Shame, no braincells?_
How do you afford them all? _Since you think it is okay to enquire after my financial status: How much money do YOU owe on your credit card?_
Are you done, yet? _Um, no! Not that it is any of your business!_
Are you trying for a girl? _No, for an ugly one, but we just can't seem to get it right!_
Why? _Why not?_ or _Statistics show that if one parents is left handed (like my dh is) one out of four of his children will also be left handed. In the name of science, though, we don't believe in a single sample group._


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## mommaduck (Sep 13, 2005)

Don't have time to read the entire thread, but....

AMEN! to the OP!


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## baltic_ballet (May 17, 2007)

Sarah, I have seven kids so I know all about these types of comments and how much they can hurt









I've posted this before in the Moms of Many thread but I found these replies to rude comments about large families on another forum some of which are quite funny:

*You have your hands full!*

* Yes, happily so!
* Yes, and my heart too.
* Don't say anything, just look puzzled at your hands. (This does obviously not work if you are carrying a baby 
* Yes, but I would rather have my hands full than empty!

*Are they all yours?*

* No, I just went to Rent-a-Brat.
* No, this is not all of them, my oldest is at home with the triplets.
* No, actually two are the mailman's and I am not sure whose is that one.....
* We always say YES, because they are OURS....but actually 3 bio, 1 niece, 2 adopted and 4 foster!! But ours in our eyes!!
* No, a couple of them starting following us a few minutes ago. -- This is especially funny when you look at your kids and realize that one of them really ISN'T yours -- he had just started following you and you didn't notice before...
* No, I picked up a couple extra in the produce aisle.
* Gee, I never heard that question before!
* Yes they are! And then one of the boys will pipe up and mention the 21 yo and the 18 yo if they are not there and of course the baby on the way!
* Of course they're all mine. Do you think I take six (or fill in your number) kids shopping for fun?
* "Legally" first 3 are his & last 3 are ours, I feel in my heart they are all ours.....
* Technically,the oldest 2 are his, the next 2 are mine and the youngest 2 are ours, but we are all just one big happy family (most of the time)LOL, because they all live with us.
* YES!
* Yes, they are all ours. We have been married for 22 years, but only have 11 kids to show for it.
* No..........I have two more at home! (When it fits)
* Well no they are not all " OURS" but in our hearts they are......
* Yes, and they're such good kids!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (the kids love that one!)
* Of course they are..wait..who is that one?Hes not ours.....oh,yeah,#5,I forgot I had him.
* I don't know. How many do you count?
* Yes. But if you have any you don't want, I'll gladly take them, too
* i'm pregnant. I gave this response. Yes, and this one (pointed to my belly) is too.
* No. I've been an avid collector for years and just picked these up in the food court!
* Yes, at least that's what I tell my husband.
* Most of the time I only have my 7 youngest ones with me, so when someone asks this, I say yes and one of the younger ones will say and there are 4 more. Then we wait to see how long it takes to add 7+4. Then you should see the looks we get.
* While I was still in hospital after having our 5th, visiting hours were over and we were all standing near the elevator, I was holding the newest and the others were all crowded around, (they ranged from 2ys to 14y) a young girl (early 20s) was trying to wade through the crowd and said "are they all yours?" to which we responded "yes", she then pointed to my still rather large belly and said "and you are having another one?" less than 24 hours after having given birth! I think not!! anyway we had a good laugh. (cbrouse23)

*Are you going to have more?*

* Yes, we just enjoy sex soooooo much!
* Why do you want to know?
* Well, not today.
* We are trying to get into the Guinness Book of World Records of (add whatever here) most kids, largest family living in one house, etc.
* OH YES! I want to have a family bigger then the one in my favorite movie "Yours, Mine & Ours!" only (add a # here) to beat the 19 they had!!
* Yes, I always want just one more.
* Well, we do have a twelve passenger van.
* Check back in nine months and you'll see for yourself.

*Don't you know what causes that?*

* No, please tell me!
* Of course, don't you?
* Yes, we do know what causes that and we like it very much, thank you.
* Oh yes, we finally figured it out and we now keep the tooth brushes in seperate glasses!
* Oh yes, I now wash my husband's underwear seperately.
* Oh yes, having a great sex life!
* Water or sex but I don't want to give up either.
* Smile brightly and say with enthusiasm "Yes and we like it!"
* You bet I do......love, love, love ( & sex, sex, sex.....hehehe.......)
* Yes! So don't get too close to me!
* It's in the water. Would you like a glass?
* Yes and I know WHO causes it! God gave us these children!
* Yes I do........cold winter nights.........
* LOVE! An overabundance of love!!
* Yes,and as you only have two kids obviously you dont do it much.
* Yes, and it is something I am very good at...
* Of course, and the Lord has greatly blessed us!
* A strong husband/wife relationship, big hearts, and the Lord's blessing.

*Are you going to get fixed?*

* Nope, I am not broken!
* Why do you want to know?
* Huh, we thought everything was working fine for us!?!
* We didn't know anything was broken.
* Don't you only fix things that aren't working properly?
* Well as you can see be the size of OUR family everything is in working order. (You have to say this last one with the kinda "I'm not to bright so your question seems kinda foolish don't you think?" attitude.

*I can't believe how you do it, I cannot even handle my two!*

* Yes, if I had kids like yours, I wouldn't have any more either!
* Yes, you don't strike me as the type who could handle more kids than that.
* I do it like most people, in bed and after the kids are sleeping.
* I put knobs on the kids. Makes them easier to handle.
* Everyone has 24 hours in a day, it is just how you use it...nt
* With lots of patience, patience, patience
* go and look at them while they're sleeping. This reminds me of what sweet children of God they are and keeps me going!
* Oh, I just do it. Wake up in the morning, do what you have to do all day, go to bed when it's done. nt
* Pick your battles carefully. It helps to have selective sight and hearing!
* Don't sweat the small stuff.
* (this is a good one for chat rooms) Oh, straight jackets and handcuffs!

*Are you planning to have any more?*

* I've been wondering about this and maybe you can explain it to me: I always thought you had to plan NOT to have more.
* Before we were married we planned on having 2, but I didn't know that my husband couldn't count!
* We didn't plan the first six, I don't think we'll plan the next six, either.

*I hope you aren't planning to have anymore?!?*

* You mean, I just figured out what I'm really, really good at, and you're telling me to stop doing it?
* Talk to God about it... it's up to Him.
* Well, we do have room in our van for 2 more.
* OK, I won't plan my next one. Surprises can be fun!
* Yup we are going to keep going till we get an ugly one.

*Haven't you heard of birth control?*

* Yes, and I thank God it doesn't always work!
* Yes, I've heard of it, I hope you are using it!
* (for dad) Yes, but I just can't find a rubber that will fit me!
* Yes, that's great stuff for people with ugly kids!
* Oh yes, we do know what birth control is; it's for people who don't want children.

*Don't you have a television?*

* Yes, but we only get X-rated channels
* Yes! Did you know there are 28 porn channels in this area?
* No, we have much better things to do at night!
* Yes 4 of them. Why?

*How can you afford having so many?*

* Lifestyles are expensive not kids.
* We're not on welfare, in huge amounts of debt, and no, my husband is not a doctor or lawyer. We just budget well.
* I figure you spend what you make, you may as well spend it on more.
* " You don't know my financial backer!" (Our God, of course)
* I'm still not sure how we do it...but it works!

*Look at that double trouble! (for twins)*

* No, they are double blessings!

*I am glad it is you and not me!*

* Yes, me too!
* My kids are glad it's me and not you too! ;-)
* Oh me too! I love being a mother! and smile real BIG!

*Do you get any time for yourselves?*
* Obviously we get a little time to ourselves, or we wouldn't have six kids.

Did you give birth to all of them?

* Yes, I gave birth to them all. Do you really believe the stork dropped them off?
* Yes, in my heart...... (for adoptive parents)

*When people just keep staring at your family....*

* No, we're not Catholic. No, we're not Mormon.
* Yes, they all are mine!
* No, we don't try to overpopulate the earth, just to outnumber the idiots!

*Haven't You Had That Baby YET?!!?*

* "YES. This is the NEXT ONE!!!!!!!!" See if that don't make their jaws drop!


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## baltic_ballet (May 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sierra* 
Okay, I just saw this LOL:







That's brilliant







I love it!









I can't wait to show my family







:


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## Mama Poot (Jun 12, 2006)

When we told our families that we were expecting baby #3, we were told almost universally "How are you going to afford that?"

Then when DH had his vasectomy after baby #3, they all said "You're all done having kids? Really? Are you sure? Awww that's too bad!"

WTH people make up your damn minds! One minute you're terrified we're going to come begging for help (which, btw we've never done) and the next you're condemning us for putting an end to the insanity. What gives? Oh, LOL, apparently my MIL said "I don't think that's a good idea." and/or "I don't feel good about that." when DH told her he was getting "fixed". And just WHY would it be a bad one? And just HOW would YOU feel bad about it? You're not the one who gets operated on.....







:

Whatever. This is the end of our biological children, but we are giving adoption a very serious consideration for the future. I think it very likely that our family will grow.


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## 3pink1blue (Jun 23, 2008)

what an idiot. i don't know where people get off, thinking they can just say those kind of things. We have 4 children, and when we went into the grocery store a few weeks ago, some stranger (with 2 kids) goes "wooooah, got enough kids yet!?" like she was being sooooo funny. idiot.


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## operamommy (Nov 9, 2004)

I think a family with 5 children sounds lovely. And even if I didn't, I certainly have enough manners to keep that thought to myself.







: I'm sorry that lady was so rude.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

People like that make me want to have four more.


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## Swan3 (Aug 5, 2008)

That video was awesome!


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## homebirthing (Nov 10, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *talk de jour* 
This childless and probably barren lady has nothing but respect for people with a bunch of kids! God bless you for being such a great mom to your *blessings*, Sarah.

I just want to say that I can't imagine how painful it would be and how courageous you are to want children and not have them. I hesitated in even writing that sentence because I know it is a trigger for some. I am so blessed. Please forgive me any hurt that I might have caused in saying that.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sierra* 
Okay, I just saw this LOL:






I've gotten most of those comments!


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## dbsam (Mar 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama_Gaia* 
You just can't win- if you have a "large" family, it's too big (like you weren't aware of the number of children you chose to bear).. But if you have "only" one, you are depriving your child of a sibling, and if you have one or more when unmarried, divorced, or low-income, well you should be ashamed! I'm really looking forward to hearing what people have to say about my li'l family too..









You're right - people make inappropriate cruel comments no matter what. For fifteen years my husband and I had no children and were constantly told we were selfish, unfulfilled, not a family, materialistic, etc. Judgment is passed either way. Now that I'm in the 'kid club' some of these same people treat me differently - it makes me angry.

To the OP...I'm sorry this woman was so rude.


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## urchin_grey (Sep 26, 2006)

I am the oldest of 5 and I had to hear that kind of thing way too many times.







Not to mention that we are all girls so my step-dad often got the whole "OMG five _GIRLS_, poor guy" thing.

I don't even think 5 kids is a lot though.







My mom is one of 11 so I guess having 5 kids didn't seem all that big of a deal to her.


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## lovbeingamommy (Jun 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoulaSarah* 
Dear Polite Offender,

You don't know me. I am the woman that walked in with her five beautiful children. We met at a mutual friends house. I am the woman to whom you stared blankly, silently counting my kids...at which point you loudly and rudely exclaimed..."Are these all your kids? OH MY GOD!!!" You said this with a true look of horror on your face. My children witnessed this. Ms. Offender, at my house, and in my family, we absolutely don't take the Lords name in vain. Not to mention that you said so right in front of my kids, not to mention that you found it appalling that I have five children. Aren't you lucky that my triplet died in utero, I wouldn't want you to have a heart attack. Thank goodness for small favors. Next time I will look at you and say, "Wow, what are you, barren?"...oh wait, that would be incredibly hurtful and tactless and horribly insulting and painful. Not to mention just plain rude.

Ms. Politeness, I am wondering on what planet you get to have an opinion on how many children I have? I ask this question because when you sat down next to me and said "So, are you done yet...or are you going to have more?" I thought that maybe YOU thought that I was in some way a part of your life. When you said "yet" like I somehow go around vomiting out children without cause or reason...like I needed to get your permission for each one. I'm sorry, but do I know you? Do you have a say in the lives of my children? Do you even know my name? Do you know my story? Do you know what it took to get these beautiful (if not naughty) children. Do you know how I suffered? Yet you get to look at me, right in my eyes, and question me...on whether or not I am done yet? How does it matter to you, stranger that I will never see again? What if I have five more? What if I have none?

Ms. P.O., When you come in and say that "They are all too much for you, you have to leave...they are too (fill in the blanks, I was seeing red)..." well, you pretty much just don't say that. You can leave, please. I will warm up your car for you. See you now, bye bye!!

You have to understand, those of you with minimal children, that there is nothing wrong with a large family, although five isn't large. I bet that my "carbon footprint" with a family of seven living my lifestyle is less then her family of one. But I won't go there. I wouldn't want to be a polite offender.

Sarah B. mother of five horrible nasty rotten earth ruiners


Sarah, you and your family are so very special! Your children are absolutely beautiful







. If you walked in somewhere withy them where I was I would surely be impressed and make sure you knew how blessed you are









I would LOVE to have started having children earlier because I'm sure I could beat out the Duggars







But, sadly, I waited until I was 40 for DS #1.







Now I just hope and pray that we can have another next year and carry to full term.


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## SuzanneDeAz (Dec 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoulaSarah* 
Dear Polite Offender,

You don't know me. I am the woman that walked in with her five beautiful children. We met at a mutual friends house. I am the woman to whom you stared blankly, silently counting my kids...at which point you loudly and rudely exclaimed..."Are these all your kids? OH MY GOD!!!" You said this with a true look of horror on your face. My children witnessed this. Ms. Offender, at my house, and in my family, we absolutely don't take the Lords name in vain. Not to mention that you said so right in front of my kids, not to mention that you found it appalling that I have five children. Aren't you lucky that my triplet died in utero, I wouldn't want you to have a heart attack. Thank goodness for small favors. Next time I will look at you and say, "Wow, what are you, barren?"...oh wait, that would be incredibly hurtful and tactless and horribly insulting and painful. Not to mention just plain rude.

Ms. Politeness, I am wondering on what planet you get to have an opinion on how many children I have? I ask this question because when you sat down next to me and said "So, are you done yet...or are you going to have more?" I thought that maybe YOU thought that I was in some way a part of your life. When you said "yet" like I somehow go around vomiting out children without cause or reason...like I needed to get your permission for each one. I'm sorry, but do I know you? Do you have a say in the lives of my children? Do you even know my name? Do you know my story? Do you know what it took to get these beautiful (if not naughty) children. Do you know how I suffered? Yet you get to look at me, right in my eyes, and question me...on whether or not I am done yet? How does it matter to you, stranger that I will never see again? What if I have five more? What if I have none?

Ms. P.O., When you come in and say that "They are all too much for you, you have to leave...they are too (fill in the blanks, I was seeing red)..." well, you pretty much just don't say that. You can leave, please. I will warm up your car for you. See you now, bye bye!!

You have to understand, those of you with minimal children, that there is nothing wrong with a large family, although five isn't large. I bet that my "carbon footprint" with a family of seven living my lifestyle is less then her family of one. But I won't go there. I wouldn't want to be a polite offender.

Sarah B. mother of five horrible nasty rotten earth ruiners

Can you share who came in and acted like this? I am appauled. Why was she so shocked?


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## SuzanneDeAz (Dec 26, 2008)

If it was not for another family asking my husband and I a personal question after we were married for 5 years about our present state of having children we would not be blessed today with our one and only child.

After being married for at least 3 years this Muslim family asked us why we were not having children. By the time they were married 3 years they had at least two children. I was a little taken by their question so I told them if they knew of any young teen who would like to give up their baby for adoption we would hire a lawyer and adopt.

A year later we got a call from them as they had a teen girl renting one of their motel rooms who was giving up her baby for adoption. Three months later my hubby and I had our baby girl. That was over 18 years ago. Had they not asked such a "rude" or a "personal" type of question we would never had our beautiful daughter.


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

I think your family is beautiful. I am jealous of large families. I think it looks like so much to have lots of kids.
For many reasons 2 is our cut off but I wish I had the nerve and everything else to have a lot.


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## Purple Cat (Jun 8, 2008)

First, how horribly RUDE and HURTFUL to your children and you.

Second, I'm so puzzled because her reaction seems so weird. I could understand the momentary faux pas of gasping if you had 18 children. But five really isn't that many. How bizarre!


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## homewithtwinsmama (Jan 5, 2005)

Yeah, I get stuff like that a lot with my five. Most often its " FIVE CHILDREN you sure have your hands full". Depending on how its delivered I will either smile and say "fully blessed" or "actually they feel somewhat empty since I have one more in heaven". That usually shuts them up.

(we lost a twin hours after birth)


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## SuzanneDeAz (Dec 26, 2008)

What does EC mean?


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## yarngoddess (Dec 27, 2006)

I HATE those comments. There is, almost, nothing worse. When I was early pregnant with #4 I got TONS of "Are you going to terminate?" questions- even from strangers! I was in shock! I also had 2 girls in diapers at the time and my brother's MIL asked me (mind you I just met her 10min before) "So, are you going to house break this one before the next comes?" dead serious. I asked her to leave at that point. She also pulled the "WOW- you know there is this whole aisle at the store that prevents this many kids." Hell, I've even had Dr.'s make comments about us having 'too many' kids. Whatever that means.

My SIL this summer was trying to be funny and said "I get them all mixed up, I think I'll just start calling them all J." (jake, jilly, jenny, jacen) My other SIL got really pale and looked at me like I was about to murder the other sister... I calmly said "NO- you will use their names or you won't talk to them." and walked away. I HATE that! It's not that hard to learn WHO they are- or ask what their name is- for the millionth time.

I do love the comments though... "OMG- Look! They keep comming and they are SO cute!" and our dear friends give DH and I a really hard time about having "like 17 kids" or "the Shankles HEARD" but that's different because they love ALL our kids, respect them and us- and it's all in good fun!

Mom's of 1 or MANY- sending mad Love! It's a hard job, and it's even harder when people make hurtfull comments!!!


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## neveryoumindthere (Mar 21, 2003)

to you. How rude!

I've had someone say to me "You better be done after this."
My reply : "Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize my uterus was any of your business."







:

Also after this babe (#3) I've had at least 2 people TELL me that I was done now and even had one say "That;s enough" and that she'd kill me if I had another (said "jokingly") WTH??


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## Onemagicmummy (Jul 27, 2007)

i am pregnant wiuth number 5, an i am sure to come across a whole slew of these type comments in the coming months.

so far its been one person made a whole bunch of nasty comments based on all my parenting ways. she bashed BF, not putting DD in creche, told me i HAVE to to help "bring her on" ok this is the kid who walked at a week before she was 1, creched didnt do that, DD2 did, with a little help from her 3 siblings, (i have photographs of DS2 "helping" dd2 to crawl by getting behind her and shoving her towards what ever it was she wanted! so cute, so funny)

i am so not looking forward to all teh looks, comments, and things that i will get between now and start of next school year.

the worse bit i am dreading is after the summer holidays (6 weeks here from end july to beginish september, i am due sometime 21/22 augutst, and will probably go late, so its possible i will not have had the baby before 5th september, and once they clap eyes on me in teh school yard dropping off DS1 DD1 and DS2 i will get google eyes adn "have you not had that baby yet!" gah, i think i will be hard pressed not to bite someones head off!!

Kiz


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

Quote:

What does EC mean?
Elimination communication. It is recognizing that babies including newborns give signals that they have to pee or poop. By recognizing and learning those signals you can put the baby on a little potty or over sink and let them eliminate.
You can get lots of information in the diapering forum under "elimination communication" or google "diaper free" or elimination communication" or infant potty training. It isn't really potty training though and it is very gentle.


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## homebirthing (Nov 10, 2002)

Isn't it great that people are universally rude?!! My favorite of course, is the total strangers that ask me "Are they natural"?

Well, let's see, strange person in Target...yes they are natural, no we didn't use fertility methods, no they don't run in the family, they are a boy and a girl, no, they aren't identical...I just said they are a boy and a girl...no, they can't be identical and be a boy and a girl...actually, I am pretty sure about it...yes, I do have my hands full...yep, better me then you...you can't stand the one you have?....ahhhh, well I am sorry about that....


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Oh my goodness, OP, your children are just beautiful. And they're lucky to have such a wonderful mama.


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## katmann (Oct 15, 2008)

So the other side of the coin is when you have no kids. DH and I were together for 9 years before we decided to conceive, and for most of those 9 we were adamant that we didn't want kids. And we caught tons of flack for it. All of his friends who were married and had kids pressured us, as did his family members (my friends are younger and without kids, and my family was just a bit more tactful). His aunt once commented, "Well, you have to have at least one." Would she say that to someone who couldn't conceive? When we finally did decide to have a child, it was our decision and no one else's. I think it's equally rude to presume a couple has to have a kid just because they're married or have been married for a certain amount of time. Procreation is a totally personal decision!


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## SuzanneDeAz (Dec 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hipumpkins* 
Elimination communication. It is recognizing that babies including newborns give signals that they have to pee or poop. By recognizing and learning those signals you can put the baby on a little potty or over sink and let them eliminate.
You can get lots of information in the diapering forum under "elimination communication" or google "diaper free" or elimination communication" or infant potty training. It isn't really potty training though and it is very gentle.

I remember reading about that some time ago. Does it really work? Those who do this are the babies without diapers?


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## Labbemama (May 23, 2008)

What I don't get is if you coud see someone "had their hands full" why would you stop them from the business at hand and hassle them about how they do it with 5 kids. Smile and hold the door. LOL.

The young woman my brother is going to marry and is going to be the mother of my niece or nephew made a snotty comment last night about Christmas day at my houseand how could I stand the noise of 5 kids. (Actually there were 6 but apparently she missed one. LOL) Better get used to it seeing as she's pregnant! And I feel like telling her you're one to talk seeing as thanks to her and db we will be +1 lil "noisemaker" next Christmas. LOL. They are getting one of those popper toys for sure.


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## mama2toomany (Oct 17, 2005)

A comment I get A LOT is:

Well now that you have your girl, you don't need anymore"

Like I was just having kid after kid to have a daughter? I was super happy with the sex of all my children and never "prayed for a girl".

Like my boys were just a stepping stone to get a girl? totally irks me.


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

to the OP.

I try not to be too sensitive because sometimes the OMG! reaction is just their mouths opening before their brain starts working







and they don't mean it to be bad. However, it sounds like that woman just didn't know when to stop.







It is especially maddening when people make their ugly comments in front of children.









Cafepress has some awesome, awesome t-shirts for large families. I've always wanted the "Birth control is for sissies" one but wouldn't have the guts to wear it.







Because, well, it would be rude and i wasn't brought up to be rude, unlike *some* people who think other peoples reproductive behavior is fair game for unsolicited commentary.









Since I have three boys the one I get most is "Oh, trying for a girl, huh?". I know that will be said over and over and over again next time I show up pregnant.







As if my last two boys were "failed" tries for a girl.







: I would looooove to have a girl, but I would also love to end up with a massive horde of just boys.







:


----------



## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SuzanneDeAz* 
I remember reading about that some time ago. Does it really work? Those who do this are the babies without diapers?

We have done it and we now have a child who uses the toilet. Most children will use the toilet sooner or later though so the difference is that EC'd babies and children avoid sitting or lying in their own waste for any length of time. There is an Elimination Communication forum here on MDC in Diapering if you want to see how people are doing it.


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## Close2Me (Dec 9, 2008)

I have big family envy! If I wasn't almost 42, I'd go for at least 2 more kids and have 4...*heck! 5 would be amazing!
If I ran into you I'd tell you I admire you & your family!


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## BunnySlippers (Oct 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoulaSarah* 

You have to understand, those of you with minimal children, that there is nothing wrong with a large family, although five isn't large.

Sarah B. mother of five horrible nasty rotten earth ruiners

I understand you are angry, and I am not trying to take this personally as a parent of one, but what is up with that comment?
I sure have never gone around spounting about my small family being better than a large family. Or that there is something wrong with large families.
must you retaliate by makinng snide comments about small family sizes?

and I know when you mentioned carbon footprint, you specifically refered to just the PO, but I have always gone to bat for the side that maintains a large and environmentally family is better for the planet than a small unfriendly one. So have many people here on this board.


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## 5796 (Oct 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Close2Me* 
I have big family envy! If I wasn't almost 42, I'd go for at least 2 more kids and have 4...*heck! 5 would be amazing!
If I ran into you I'd tell you I admire you & your family!

I am a small family--1 child. but for whatitsworth, I had my son at 43..and I would have gone for second at 45 but I was nervous about our finances...but don't let age scare you....

hugs


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## LuxPerpetua (Dec 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoulaSarah* 
Dear Polite Offender,

You don't know me. I am the woman that walked in with her five beautiful children. We met at a mutual friends house. I am the woman to whom you stared blankly, silently counting my kids...at which point you loudly and rudely exclaimed..."Are these all your kids? OH MY GOD!!!" You said this with a true look of horror on your face. My children witnessed this.

. . .

You have to understand, those of you with minimal children, that there is nothing wrong with a large family, although five isn't large. I bet that my "carbon footprint" with a family of seven living my lifestyle is less then her family of one. But I won't go there. I wouldn't want to be a polite offender.

Sarah B. mother of five horrible nasty rotten earth ruiners

I think the way this lady acted was totally outside of social grace, and I can totally empathize with you being both hurt and angry, but I'm not sure why you seem to be baffled as to why other people think large families (and I do think 5 does qualify as large by today's standards) are unusual. To me it's kind of like walking into a wedding in blue jeans--it attracts notice. There is nothing wrong with that, but rather how it's handled, and this lady should have been more polite without doubt. Perhaps there was a bit of genuine curiosity that was in her remarks; I've noticed that when I get defensive about something I tend to assign mal-intent when it's not really there. I've been known to have a jaw-dropping moment when I've seen a large family walk by, and I have been genuinely intrigued as to the underlying reasons as to why (was it a religious reason? do they just really love kids? were they on fertility drugs?) because sometimes the answers can be really interesting. Not everyone who asks these questions are doing so to criticize.

I'd be willing to bet that most large families do not have a carbon footprint as small as an only child family so although there is nothing wrong with having a large family, not all do so in environmentally-friendly ways (or even care about that aspect of reproduction). Kudos to you!

I have a family with one child and my quiver is most definitely full, and I do get defensive when other mothers treat me as if I was "less than" because I have chosen to have just one child. My aunt even commented that "You're not really a mother until you have your second." Umm, yes. The comments about the tragedy that my child will not have a sibling get flung my way quite a bit. I had a mother of 9 lecture me on how selfish I was and how I was doomed to raise a self-centered brat. I wanted to reply, "I'm glad you told me since I'm an only child myself and I had no idea that I was supposed to get my way about everything. I think I'll give that a try from now on."







There are many wonderful things about having an only child just as I'm sure there are many wonderful things about having many children--they are just very different dynamics.


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## artgirl (May 17, 2002)

I'm just in awe at how beautiful your little earth ruiners are.









I have three and get comments at that. I'd love to have more but dh is done.


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## emski4379 (Aug 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngelBee* 
My mother's response to baby #4 was "That is f***ing HORRIBLE!"


















And







about feeling so ill when being pregnant.









That is horrible!

Hugs to all of you mamas. I have no idea why people think they're opinion matters to others. What makes them think they have the right to judge you?

I would LOVE 5 children. But I will be lucky if I can talk DH into #3. So if I saw your big families, I would just smile and envy you!


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## MoonWillow (May 24, 2006)

I would love a big family. I wish I could handle having more than two but I don't see it in my future.
I am always in awe of you mamas with large families here, how serene you are, how gentle.
Pay no mind to the ignorant masses. I think you're wonderful.


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## SusanElizabeth (Jun 2, 2006)

There are people who like to make hostile comments to others, no matter what it is about -- whether it's the number of children you have, the children you don't have, whatever. They seem to enjoy making nasty remarks.

I work with a woman who constantly makes hostile comments about Jews and Christians intermarrying. My husband is Jewish and I was raised as a Presbyterian. I could live without hearing about how much she disapproves of this.

I also have trouble dealing with this kind of thing. And I find that people will repeat their comments over and over and over again - just in case you didn't hear them.


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## homebirthing (Nov 10, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BunnySlippers* 
I understand you are angry, and I am not trying to take this personally as a parent of one, but what is up with that comment?
I sure have never gone around spounting about my small family being better than a large family. Or that there is something wrong with large families.
must you retaliate by makinng snide comments about small family sizes?

and I know when you mentioned carbon footprint, you specifically refered to just the PO, but I have always gone to bat for the side that maintains a large and environmentally family is better for the planet than a small unfriendly one. So have many people here on this board.

That wasn't meant to be snide at all. I know that many people here with one child are very eco friendly. Many people in my life with one child are also very eco friendly. I was simply saying that you can have a large family and still be very eco friendly. This could have been a woman who bought things with large packaging and ate crappy processed heavily packaged food from another country (not local) and drove a hummer. Who knows. I don't think she did...but I am just trying to prove a point that having a large family doesn't mean you have to leave a larger carbon footprint.


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## homebirthing (Nov 10, 2002)

Quote:

but rather how it's handled
That is what I had a problem with. And it wasn't even the initial OMG...it was the continuous nasty comments made over the next few hours. There was a chance there for her to stop being rude, but she didn't stop. I did end up leaving. I should say that my friend did stand up for me, and I really appreciated it.


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## Miss 1928 (Nov 12, 2007)

DoulaSarah, your "horrible nasty rotton earth ruiners" are really adorable!

I am sorry that the "Polite" Offender was so very tactless to you in front of your children.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *katmann* 
So the other side of the coin is when you have no kids. DH and I were together for 9 years before we decided to conceive, and for most of those 9 we were adamant that we didn't want kids. And we caught tons of flack for it. All of his friends who were married and had kids pressured us, as did his family members (my friends are younger and without kids, and my family was just a bit more tactful). His aunt once commented, "Well, you have to have at least one." Would she say that to someone who couldn't conceive? When we finally did decide to have a child, it was our decision and no one else's. I think it's equally rude to presume a couple has to have a kid just because they're married or have been married for a certain amount of time. *Procreation is a totally personal decision*!

























It does amaze me that complete strangers feel they have the right to comment on your reproductive choices.

When I was with my ex-husband we had completely decided against having any children. We absolutley did not want them. Period. And yet when the subject came up (generally with complete strangers, since our friends and family knew and (mostly) accepted how we felt, and many also felt the same way) we were almost always told; "Oh, you _have_ to have children!"

Once, while in line at Costco, I was chatting with the guy behind me (sometimes I'm too friendly







); "...yes, I'm married. Yes, I love being married, but no, we're not going to have any kids, I believe that there are already enough children and that the population will survive even if we do not contribute to it." To which he replied; _"You Must have children, there is never enough love!"_

I honestly think that this remark is as rude to make to someone who chooses not to procreate as is to say to someone who has chosen to have more than the "normal" amount of 2; _"So, are you done yet...or are you going to have more?"_ In either situation, "IT IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!!!!!"









In a nut-shell: my ex-husband and I divorced amicably. I met my DH and we both realized; "Ding! Ding! Ding! Genetic Match!" I moved to Italy and after 3 years of marriage we had our amazing baby, Eloisa. Now we're getting all kinds of comments like; "Hurry up and have another." (I'm 41), "Don't you want to try for a boy?" and "Now you need to have a boy." (these really irk me!), "Don't let her be an only child." "You need two." "Your second child will look more like you, the first always looks like the father."

However people's meddling stupidity does not end there, unfortunately. While we were TTC and pregnant I got these comments; "You need to have twins, a boy and a girl, then you're done." "You're having a girl? Ok, the next one will be a boy." (I don't know if this whole fixation with having boys is an Italian thing but I sure get a lot of these comments here.
















I wouldn't say these things to my best friends, even if I thought them, why would I say them to a complete stranger? --Maybe a long time ago when I was much younger and completely lacking in tact, but certainly not now. I just don't get it.







:


----------



## LuxPerpetua (Dec 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoulaSarah* 
That wasn't meant to be snide at all. I know that many people here with one child are very eco friendly. Many people in my life with one child are also very eco friendly. I was simply saying that you can have a large family and still be very eco friendly. This could have been a woman who bought things with large packaging and ate crappy processed heavily packaged food from another country (not local) and drove a hummer. Who knows. I don't think she did...but I am just trying to prove a point that having a large family doesn't mean you have to leave a larger carbon footprint.

I know you are in a very sensitive place right now, and I genuinely am not wanting to be provoking or make you feel worse, so I hope you can read what I have to say in the dispassionate spirit in which it is meant. The problem that I see with the environmental argument that you are making is that although you may be very eco-friendly yourself, there is no guarantee that your children (or their spouses, or their children, etc.) will be so. Statistically, your family and it's descendants are going to have a much larger impact overall than a smaller family, even if the smaller family is not environmentally-sensitive. Let's say each of your 5 children (assuming that you don't have more) opt for having a similarly-sized family. That means that 5 children becomes 25 grandchildren becomes 125 great-grandchildren, and that's not even including spouses. No matter how careful they are, that's a lot of people taking up geographic space and resources as opposed to 1 child becomes 1 grandchild becomes 1 great-grandchild. Of course, there are other factors to consider when having a family, but the environmental impact is real, and can't be denied. There is a book called, "Maybe One," written by an environmentalist that talks about the issue of population growth and how that is environmentally problematic, even taking into account the common argument that people make of, "But my children may solve global warming, or *insert your global calamity of choice*. I think everyone should have the freedom to say, "I want a big family," and then follow through but to downplay the macro picture of how that family will ultimately impact the earth is a sugar-coating of reality. In that light I don't think it's surprising when some people, especially environmental activists, have anger toward larger families because in their opinion, the sheer numbers are making a difficult situation worse. And to be honest, most large families even in the here and now are neglectful of their place in the overall environmental picture without even calculating the impact of their future descendants.

Of course, it doesn't sound like this particular woman had environmentally-conscious leanings, so what I'm saying is really just addressing the assertion that was made in regard to large families and their environmental impact being minimal. I don't think that's a statistical reality. And to say that it's no one's business how many children one has is also a denial of reality. We all live on one earth, and we are all impacted by other people's decisions, and it would be nice to know that other people are at least considering the broader picture when they procreate. They may still choose large families--and I totally believe they should never have that freedom denied--but I hope it's a decision that is made knowingly, beyond the "I want another baby just because" mentality. In our current world we can't afford to be so ego-centric. But that's just my opinion. From a very human perspective, I wish with all my heart that this wasn't the case.


----------



## SusanElizabeth (Jun 2, 2006)

Lux Perpetua, I think your post is very interesting and informative. I had never thought about some of the points you make.


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## emski4379 (Aug 23, 2006)

I get the comment that now that we have one of each, we must be done. Which is so totally not true. We totally thought DD was going to be another boy (since the only other girl in DH family is his 40 year old sister), so when we found out DD was a girl, we were shocked! I already wanted 4 before that, so I obvisouly thought I'd end up with 4 boys. Why do people asume you're not happy if you have all same-sex children?


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## 5796 (Oct 19, 2002)

Miss 1928,
I enjoyed yoru post very much but I must admit I was stuck on your location. I am wildly jealous that you live in Rome. I think raising a family there would be awesome.
I joke with my husband that I don't want to buy in the CAlifironia , I say, "Let's buy in Florence!"


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## Miss 1928 (Nov 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoulaSarah* 
That is what I had a problem with. And it wasn't even the initial OMG...it was the continuous nasty comments made over the next few hours. There was a chance there for her to stop being rude, but she didn't stop. I did end up leaving. I should say that my friend did stand up for me, and I really appreciated it.

I'm surprised that you call this woman a "Polite Offender" She sounds like a "Rude Offender" to me.

I'm actually glad for your clarification that it wasn't her first "Are they all yours" comment that was so offensive. --I can see how that might be the first reaction for many people, myself included, who are not accustomed to larger families --and yes, in my book, five children counts as a large family. But rather that she continued to dig and be cruel about it, especially in front of your LOs. There is definitely a difference between the initial surprise of; "Wow, that's a lot of kids!" and the; "Are you done yet... or are you going to have even more?" or "Don't you know what causes that?" type of comment. I am glad that your friend stood up for you.


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## Miss 1928 (Nov 12, 2007)

Sorry,









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tracy* 
Miss 1928,
I enjoyed yoru post very much but I must admit I was stuck on your location. I am wildly jealous that you live in Rome. I think raising a family there would be awesome.
I joke with my husband that I don't want to buy in the CAlifironia , I say, "Let's buy in Florence!"











Rome has it's advantages; Socialized health care; We spend 57 Euro a month on day care - 5 days a week, 7 hours a day and they're fed all organic food; We're actually able to make our living as classical musicians here.

But there are disadvantages too; Never ending bureaucracy up the wazoo - it was easier and less expensive to get divorced in California than to get married in Italy!; I am very far from my family and friends; My folks are missing out on their only grand-child.







; There are no bagels or good cheap Mexican food in Rome.


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## keilonwy (Dec 4, 2007)

nak

I wish we could have 5. I developed severe pre-e, though, and subsequent pregnancies could kill me and a baby. We're adopting at least 3!! Some people just don't think, like a woman in the NICU waiting room who asked if I could have more children.


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## Trinitty (Jul 15, 2004)

I'm guessing miserable jealousy caused this.

I am so sorry that you heard that from that vicious woman.

I come from a family with four children, three of whom are my triplet sisters (I cannot express how sad I am for your triplet who passed....) and my Mom and Dad heard similar things from other rude, nasty people.

BUT, we heard MORE blessings and wishes of good will from MORE people than we heard nastiness.

Don't let this touch your heart, enjoy your beautiful family.

Trin.


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## homebirthing (Nov 10, 2002)

Lux-

I see where you are coming from and you stated your point very eloquently. I understand scientifically where you are coming from.


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## Ks Mama (Aug 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoulaSarah* 
You have to understand, those of you with minimal children, that there is nothing wrong with a large family, although five isn't large.

Well... To me, 5 children, 7 total family *IS* a large family.

And your statement assumes that "those of us" with "minimal" children (minimal??) all think there's "something wrong" with a large family. I don't think there's something wrong with a large family. A large family is not for us, but its not inherantly wrong. Is there something wrong with a small family?

Do you believe your assumptions less offensive than those of the polite offender in your post? Maybe your post is less rude than the woman in person, but you've got your own biases & assumptions about small families.


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## homebirthing (Nov 10, 2002)

Minimal simply means less. (As in numerically less children than I have) I had one child too. I had two children too. And I had three children for four years before having twins. I have no biases towards families smaller than mine or larger than mine.

I was talking directly to this woman, in my venting letter, sarcastically. It was not meant to be read in a literal sense throughout.


----------



## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LuxPerpetua* 
I know you are in a very sensitive place right now, and I genuinely am not wanting to be provoking or make you feel worse, so I hope you can read what I have to say in the dispassionate spirit in which it is meant. The problem that I see with the environmental argument that you are making is that although you may be very eco-friendly yourself, there is no guarantee that your children (or their spouses, or their children, etc.) will be so. Statistically, your family and it's descendants are going to have a much larger impact overall than a smaller family, even if the smaller family is not environmentally-sensitive. Let's say each of your 5 children (assuming that you don't have more) opt for having a similarly-sized family. That means that 5 children becomes 25 grandchildren becomes 125 great-grandchildren, and that's not even including spouses. No matter how careful they are, that's a lot of people taking up geographic space and resources as opposed to 1 child becomes 1 grandchild becomes 1 great-grandchild. Of course, there are other factors to consider when having a family, but the environmental impact is real, and can't be denied. There is a book called, "Maybe One," written by an environmentalist that talks about the issue of population growth and how that is environmentally problematic, even taking into account the common argument that people make of, "But my children may solve global warming, or *insert your global calamity of choice*. I think everyone should have the freedom to say, "I want a big family," and then follow through but to downplay the macro picture of how that family will ultimately impact the earth is a sugar-coating of reality. In that light I don't think it's surprising when some people, especially environmental activists, have anger toward larger families because in their opinion, the sheer numbers are making a difficult situation worse. And to be honest, most large families even in the here and now are neglectful of their place in the overall environmental picture without even calculating the impact of their future descendants.

Of course, it doesn't sound like this particular woman had environmentally-conscious leanings, so what I'm saying is really just addressing the assertion that was made in regard to large families and their environmental impact being minimal. I don't think that's a statistical reality. And to say that it's no one's business how many children one has is also a denial of reality. We all live on one earth, and we are all impacted by other people's decisions, and it would be nice to know that other people are at least considering the broader picture when they procreate. They may still choose large families--and I totally believe they should never have that freedom denied--but I hope it's a decision that is made knowingly, beyond the "I want another baby just because" mentality. In our current world we can't afford to be so ego-centric. But that's just my opinion. From a very human perspective, I wish with all my heart that this wasn't the case.

There is no guarantee that children from a large family will have a lot of children.

For instance, a mom with 2 children could end up with 10 grandchildren (5 from each) and I (a mom of 5 so far) could end up with 6 or even less. (One child decides to not have children, 2 single children families, 2 with 2 children)

We can not see the future like that.

This whole theory is just that......a theory.


----------



## LuxPerpetua (Dec 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngelBee* 
There is no guarantee that children from a large family will have a lot of children.

For instance, a mom with 2 children could end up with 10 grandchildren (5 from each) and I (a mom of 5 so far) could end up with 6 or even less. (One child decides to not have children, 2 single children families, 2 with 2 children)

We can not see the future like that.

This whole theory is just that......a theory.


Of course it's a theory but there is actual data to support it. The population trend right now is toward smaller families in general. However, many people (not all) who have large families have religious beliefs that dictate that, which means that if their children remain part of that religious tradition (and supposing that they are fertile) they will also have a large family. Also, children resulting from a large family are more likely to have larger than average families of their own (probably because that's what they're used to). It is much more statistically unlikely for an only child (or a child from a small family) to have 4+ kids--it doesn't mean it won't happen, but it is less likely to. The issue at hand, too, is that having a large family in America is different from having a large family in Ethiopia or Tanzania or Guatamala, etc. Our culture is a "super-consumer" culture, and even living as "green" as possible we still are a huge resource drain per capita. And, then again, there is the issue of whether each resulting child will continue to live with a "small carbon footprint," and their children and so forth. And ultimately, there is only so much room on the earth for sustaining humanity. Our space is not unlimited.

I'm genuinely not meaning for this to be a post against large families--I'm just trying to say that there are real issues that need to be actively thought about. I'm trying to point out that the assertion of having a smaller carbon footprint as a large family is really an impossiblity when compared to smaller families. In the end, it is much less likely to happen.

One of the common comments throughout this thread has been "reproduction is no one else's business," but I think we're getting to a critical point in Earth's history when even this sensitive subject is becoming public interest. We need to be able to talk about this in open discourse. As I said earlier, we all share the same planet. What we do in America impacts the rest of the globe, and the same can be said for other "first world" countries. And population is an issue, and it is becoming problematic. There are environmental studies to back that up, as well as stastics, as well as basic numbers.

But, of course, we all love our children dearly and wouldn't send any of them back . . . and OP, your children are adorable and they are very blessed to have you as their mother. I dearly hope you are not offended at what I'm saying, because I'm definitely not meaning it as a slight against you personally. I don't want to be the subject of another "Polite Offender" letter.


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## homebirthing (Nov 10, 2002)

Lux - I do understand where you are coming from, and I don't take any offense by it. I do what I can to educate my children, and FWIW, I am from a small family, and so is my husband, and yet we have five children. I did have twins, which don't run in the family, and it was close to being triplets, which really don't run in the family! I never thought that I would ever ever have five kids.

What I hope to do, is show the kids that by having our own chickens, growing a large garden, shopping locally all year from the markets and having a CSA (we are in MN, so it's not always possible in winter) buying in bulk for meat from a local farmer, using E85, homebirthing, breastfeeding, shopping second hand for everything...blah blah blah...you get the point...is that this earth is incredibly fragile and that we need to watch what we do to it. I do think that we live in a fallen world and it won't get better until Jesus comes!! But again, that is just me!


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## Greenmama2AJ (Jan 10, 2008)

Lux Perpetua - I understand a lot of your Earth Spaceship argument - only so many resources and a population growing at a rapid rate.

I've read a lot on this too - as part of my Media/Ecologically Sustainable Development degree (yeah, now _that's_ a useful peice of paper, lol). I became a teacher









I believe that the OP can be accurate though when she says that her ecological footprint can be less than many smaller families. Even accounting for the exponential effect of having more child bearing offspring - the real issue is consumerism.

We only need to worry about over population if we wish to continue our greedy, over zealous, consumerist lifestyles. Eventually, if we continue to use up resources as we do we wont have any choice but to live more minimally anyway. Many people have less children so that they can live more financially free lifestyles. How many people say "I cant afford more children" but what they really mean is "more children will cut into my wealth"? People who have more children generally don't earn more money - so they might consume more food and water, and perhaps produce more bio waste - but they have to do so within the same economic means.

Are you saying that OP should have less children because if everyone had 5 children then we would have to eat less red meat, buy less plastic and take more public transport?









Large families cant, in general, afford the consumerism of smaller families. The mind set in large families is "sharing" - thus they tend to buy less things and use them more resourcefully. Even if her children were to have a large family too it is likely that they would share this large family mentality. I think the proof of this mentality is the mindset of those in rural India and China - HUGE population, smaller ecological footprint.

Perhaps the US only has such a great footprint because we have small families and can afford to have consumerist attitudes. Just a thought.
I know you weren't attacking the op


----------



## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LuxPerpetua* 
Of course it's a theory but there is a actual data to support it. The population trend right now is toward smaller families in general. However, many people (not all) who have large families have religious beliefs that dictate that, which means that if their children remain part of that religious tradition (and supposing that they are fertile) they will also have a large family. Also, children resulting from a large family are more likely to have larger than average families of their own (probably because that's what they're used to). It is much more statistically unlikely for an only child (or a child from a small family) to have 4+ kids--it doesn't mean it won't happen, but it is less likely to. The issue at hand, too, is that having a large family in America is different from having a large family in Ethiopia or Tanzania or Guatamala, etc. Our culture is a "super-consumer" culture, and even living as "green" as possible we still are a huge resource drain per capita. And, then again, there is the issue of whether each resulting child will continue to live with a "small carbon footprint," and their children and so forth. And ultimately, there is only so much room on the earth for sustaining humanity. Our space is not unlimited.

I'm genuinely not meaning for this to be a post against large families--I'm just trying to say that there are real issues that need to be actively thought about. I'm trying to point out that the assertion of having a smaller carbon footprint as a large family is really an impossiblity when compared to smaller families. In the end, it is much less likely to happen.

One of the common comments throughout this thread has been "reproduction is no one else's business," but I think we're getting to a critical point in Earth's history when even this sensitive subject is becoming public interest. We need to be able to talk about this in open discourse. As I said earlier, we all share the same planet. What we do in America impacts the rest of the globe, and the same can be said for other "first world" countries. And population is an issue, and it is becoming problematic. There are environmental studies to back that up, as well as stastics, as well as basic numbers.

But, of course, we all love our children dearly and wouldn't send any of them back . . . and OP, your children are adorable and they are very blessed to have you as their mother. I dearly hope you are not offended at what I'm saying, because I'm definitely not meaning it as a slight against you personally. I don't want to be the subject of another "Polite Offender" letter.









There is actual data proving that some countries are actually going to experience dwindling numbers as well.

It all depends on who you put your trust in I guess.

I choose to put mine 100% in God







That goes for my family size and for the environment.


----------



## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoulaSarah* 
Lux - I do understand where you are coming from, and I don't take any offense by it. I do what I can to educate my children, and FWIW, I am from a small family, and so is my husband, and yet we have five children. I did have twins, which don't run in the family, and it was close to being triplets, which really don't run in the family! I never thought that I would ever ever have five kids.

What I hope to do, is show the kids that by having our own chickens, growing a large garden, shopping locally all year from the markets and having a CSA (we are in MN, so it's not always possible in winter) buying in bulk for meat from a local farmer, using E85, homebirthing, breastfeeding, shopping second hand for everything...blah blah blah...you get the point...is that this earth is incredibly fragile and that we need to watch what we do to it. I do think that we live in a fallen world and it won't get better until Jesus comes!! But again, that is just me!











We also have chosen to live with family in a multi-generational home to reduce our carbon print ad stretch finances to better serve our family....immediate and extended.


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## mom2threenurslings (Jul 16, 2002)

Carbon footprint:

My sister has 2 children. I have 5 children.

Her house is twice as big as mine.

They buy everything new. They throw things away when they're done with them (toys, electronics, housewares, clothes). We rarely buy new (major appliances and carseats) and reuse, repourpose, donate or recycle everything we can.

My sister used bottles w/ inserts and formula and disposable diapers with her kids. We use cloth diapers / ec our kids ... the same cloth diapers (purchased used at a tag sale) for the first 4 with a few used diapers thrown in here and there and I breastfeed.

They use more electricity and water than our family. We grow/forage/trade/CSA a good portion of our fruits and veggies - they grew tomatoes last year.

And the list goes on.

Who knows how many children my children will have - they may decide to adopt and/or foster (having friends who are adopted/fostered), not to have kids, or to have small families. My sister's kids may decide to have 6 kids a piece. We just don't know.

All I know is that the odds of my kids living a more eco-friendly, less consumer-driven lifestyle are greater than those of my sister's gotta-have-it-kids.

No matter how many children you have (or not) and how you come about parenting the children (birthing, fostering, adopting), what right does anyone have to say what is the right number of children for anyone or what is "too many"?


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## LuxPerpetua (Dec 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoulaSarah* 
Lux - I do understand where you are coming from, and I don't take any offense by it. I do what I can to educate my children, and FWIW, I am from a small family, and so is my husband, and yet we have five children. I did have twins, which don't run in the family, and it was close to being triplets, which really don't run in the family! I never thought that I would ever ever have five kids.

What I hope to do, is show the kids that by having our own chickens, growing a large garden, shopping locally all year from the markets and having a CSA (we are in MN, so it's not always possible in winter) buying in bulk for meat from a local farmer, using E85, homebirthing, breastfeeding, shopping second hand for everything...blah blah blah...you get the point...is that this earth is incredibly fragile and that we need to watch what we do to it. I do think that we live in a fallen world and it won't get better until Jesus comes!! But again, that is just me!

I absolutely agree with you! We most definitely live in a fallen world. And I think it's wonderful that you and your family are so proactive in your living. That really is a fantastic example for everyone. Being good stewards is part and parcel to living a Christian life. I have a friend similar to you--she had one child, took fertility meds to have a second and ended up with quadruplets. Not what she bargained for--she loves them dearly but they were a surprise. However, unlike you, she just doesn't have the energy or know-how to live more "green" under her current circumstances. She's just trying to stay afloat. I think that when you're in "survival mode" it's just hard for people to be able to be think beyond the "bread and butter" to larger issues. I am totally in awe that you can because I know that would be impossible for me. You rock, mama!


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## LuxPerpetua (Dec 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Greenmama2AJ* 
Lux Perpetua - I understand a lot of your Earth Spaceship argument - only so many resources and a population growing at a rapid rate.

I've read a lot on this too - as part of my Media/Ecologically Sustainable Development degree (yeah, now _that's_ a useful peice of paper, lol). I became a teacher









I believe that the OP can be accurate though when she says that her ecological footprint can be less than many smaller families. Even accounting for the exponential effect of having more child bearing offspring - the real issue is consumerism.

We only need to worry about over population if we wish to continue our greedy, over zealous, consumerist lifestyles. Eventually, if we continue to use up resources as we do we wont have any choice but to live more minimally anyway. Many people have less children so that they can live more financially free lifestyles. How many people say "I cant afford more children" but what they really mean is "more children will cut into my wealth"? People who have more children generally don't earn more money - so they might consume more food and water, and perhaps produce more bio waste - but they have to do so within the same economic means.

Are you saying that OP should have less children because if everyone had 5 children then we would have to eat less red meat, buy less plastic and take more public transport?









Large families cant, in general, afford the consumerism of smaller families. The mind set in large families is "sharing" - thus they tend to buy less things and use them more resourcefully. Even if her children were to have a large family too it is likely that they would share this large family mentality. I think the proof of this mentality is the mindset of those in rural India and China - HUGE population, smaller ecological footprint.

Perhaps the US only has such a great footprint because we have small families and can afford to have consumerist attitudes. Just a thought.
I know you weren't attacking the op









I definitely think you're onto something. I think, though, in the end the population numbers themselves become problematic. With only so much arable land and water, we can only feed so many mouths. We need to reduce to numbers as well as the amount of resources that we use--but that demands a restructuring of our culture that I'm not sure is going to happen anytime soon, which is why I think talking about family-size is important. It isn't vital for everyone to have small families (or no children at all) but under our current conditions I think that may be the best way to get to where we need to be . . . but these are just my thoughts talking here. I've just read other environmentalists talking about this, and it does make sense to me.

Oh, and I'm a medievalist, so I hear ya about the "useful piece of paper" bit. In one of my classes the teacher used to have us practice saying, "Would you like fries with that?".


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## LuxPerpetua (Dec 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngelBee* 
There is actual data proving that some countries are actually going to experience dwindling numbers as well.

It all depends on who you put your trust in I guess.

I choose to put mine 100% in God







That goes for my family size and for the environment.

I thought I'd just add that I put my trust in God 100% as well. I just also believe that God has given us the blessings of science and knowledge to make more informed choices in all areas, including how much we procreate. Just because a person believes in birth control doesn't mean s/he doesn't trust God. I trust God but I still lock my door when I go out. I just wanted to clarify that point.

Ultimately, we get a new earth anyway, but we still have to answer for why we didn't take care of this one. And I include myself most strongly in that "we." I know I should be more environmentally-conscious myself. Starting by choosing a small family is one way that I'm making that happen. Of course, as I think has been mentioned, not everyone needs to do that . . . it's just something that people need to be open toward.


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## MOMYS (Nov 5, 2008)

Most of the bigger families I know are pretty environmentally friendly, although there are some who obviously are not.

We moved to Canada a couple of months ago (from South Africa) and although South Africa is a first world country in some regards I have been totally and utterly SHOCKED by the consumerism in Canada (and when I speak to people here who have lived in the States, they reckon it is pretty much the same there!). The paper products; the plastics; the throw away society have all been a total shock for me. These things I don't think have anything to do with large or small families. Some large families are environmentally friendly, some are not. Some small families are environmentally friendly, some are not.

We are expecting our 7th child... When living in SA this is how we lived (by choice and we will hopefully be doing the same thing here within the next year, in the meanwhile we do what we can)... We raised all our own freerange, antibiotic free meat (and supported 3 families who lived below the breadline. They helped by offering their labour to assist us). We also grew all our own vegetables year round (and had the same arrangement with the other 3 families). We had one family vehicle and we only went into town once a week or when possible once every two weeks. We did all fencing, shelters etc. for the animals with what was available on our property - as far as possible. We had our own milk and I made our own yoghurt, ice cream and butter. My dh was in the process of setting up our whole property to run on biodiesel that he would have produced from used vegetable oil collected from restaurants (he finally had the process down pat) when we moved. We had well water and made use of a huge watertank for storing rain water to supply some of our water needs. We used gravity feed tanks for watering our vegetable and herb gardens.

We started making some quilts by using the wool we sheared off the sheep in summer as fillers (we were still in the process of learning how to do this effectively).

We tried to buy used as far as possible.

I am telling you this only because I want you to know that there are big families who really go all out in being environmentally friendly! We all do what we can, to the best of our ability!

My children are very, very aware of the world around them and their responsiblity to be good stewards. BUT we also trust God to know what is best for us - also in our family planning!


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LuxPerpetua* 
I thought I'd just add that I put my trust in God 100% as well. I just also believe that God has given us the blessings of science and knowledge to make more informed choices in all areas, including how much we procreate. Just because a person believes in birth control doesn't mean s/he doesn't trust God. I trust God but I still lock my door when I go out. I just wanted to clarify that point.

Ultimately, we get a new earth anyway, but we still have to answer for why we didn't take care of this one. And I include myself most strongly in that "we." I know I should be more environmentally-conscious myself. Starting by choosing a small family is one way that I'm making that happen. Of course, as I think has been mentioned, not everyone needs to do that . . . it's just something that people need to be open toward.

Oh, we will have to answer for what we have done to his earth.









I will, however, never chose the environment over life. For me personally, that is NOT an option.


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## LuxPerpetua (Dec 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngelBee* 
Oh, we will have to answer for what we have done to his earth.









I will, however, never chose the environment over life. For me personally, that is NOT an option.


God calls everyone to different vocations in life.









~~~~

Ack . . . I didn't mean to be so long-winded in this thread. I'll hush up now so the conversation can get back on track.







Can I just say how grateful I am that I have been allowed to talk about a sensitive topic? I know this isn't easy from anyone's perspective. Thank you.


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## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

I totally get the thing about carbon footprint, and think it is super important. For me personally, my family's environmental impact definiely weighs into our decision making.

That said, I also think that parents *do* have an impact on their kids, and that parental environmental practices can certainly influence whole families through adulthood...they did for me! I grew up in a large size (by the 1.5 kidf family that seems to be the current standard) hippie family. We all have differing views on everything from politics to parenthood, but all of us have better than average environmental practices. Large families have a point here.

Also, I am hearing a biased assumption that large families are usually that way because the mother is giving birth. A lot of the largest families I know in person are foster and adoptive families. My family is a foster adoptive family, and you wouldn't guess it necessarily by looking at us (not by design, just the way it has happened so far), so you might mis-judge us eventually when we have four or more.


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## lovbeingamommy (Jun 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Close2Me* 
I have big family envy! If I wasn't almost 42, I'd go for at least 2 more kids and have 4...*heck! 5 would be amazing!
If I ran into you I'd tell you I admire you & your family!

I'm almost 44 and I still plan on at least 1 more, praying for three (or else just triplets







)

Go for it!!!







: Anything's possible...


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## homebirthing (Nov 10, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LuxPerpetua* 
Ultimately, we get a new earth anyway, but we still have to answer for why we didn't take care of this one. And I include myself most strongly in that "we." I know I should be more environmentally-conscious myself. Starting by choosing a small family is one way that I'm making that happen. Of course, as I think has been mentioned, not everyone needs to do that . . . it's just something that people need to be open toward.

I agree with you about taking care of our earth. This is the one that was given to us and that is why it is so important to me to do as much as I can. I prayed about having one more child, and He gave us two. Some families aren't supposed to have more than one. It makes sense to me. We all have our own quivers to fill. Yours is full with one, and mine with five!!


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## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lovbeingamommy* 
I'm almost 44 and I still plan on at least 1 more, praying for three (or else just triplets







)

Go for it!!!







: Anything's possible...


Heck! I agree. Reproduce so long as you can. Go all the way up til menopause. I pray that you get your wish, Mama.


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## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SuzanneDeAz* 
If it was not for another family asking my husband and I a personal question after we were married for 5 years about our present state of having children we would not be blessed today with our one and only child.

After being married for at least 3 years this Muslim family asked us why we were not having children. By the time they were married 3 years they had at least two children. I was a little taken by their question so I told them if they knew of any young teen who would like to give up their baby for adoption we would hire a lawyer and adopt.

A year later we got a call from them as they had a teen girl renting one of their motel rooms who was giving up her baby for adoption. Three months later my hubby and I had our baby girl. That was over 18 years ago. Had they not asked such a "rude" or a "personal" type of question we would never had our beautiful daughter.


Wow! What a touching story! How sweet. I guess it sometimes pays to ask personal questions.


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## KJoslyn78 (Jun 3, 2007)

We are a family with 3 children - and i cant count how many rude comments i had when pregnant with my ds.. all the "hoping for a boy" and "you'll be done after this" and so on and so forth. And most of the slack was from my own family









My best friend from high school had 4 sons, and i cant recall how many rude comments she got from work over that (we both use to work at the same nursing home), esp when she would come back from maternity leave already pregnant... or how she was just trying for a girl, etc..

And while Dh and I are done having children (my tube were tied, i get very unwell while pregnant, and DH and I said we were done after 4 pregnancies (1 ended in m/c), i know personally if i could have done it physically, i would have loved more.

BTW - that video is AWESOME! lol


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## Jannah6 (Aug 29, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom2threenurslings* 
Carbon footprint:

My sister has 2 children. I have 5 children.

Her house is twice as big as mine.

They buy everything new. They throw things away when they're done with them (toys, electronics, housewares, clothes). We rarely buy new (major appliances and carseats) and reuse, repourpose, donate or recycle everything we can.

My sister used bottles w/ inserts and formula and disposable diapers with her kids. We use cloth diapers / ec our kids ... the same cloth diapers (purchased used at a tag sale) for the first 4 with a few used diapers thrown in here and there and I breastfeed.

They use more electricity and water than our family. We grow/forage/trade/CSA a good portion of our fruits and veggies - they grew tomatoes last year.

And the list goes on.

Who knows how many children my children will have - they may decide to adopt and/or foster (having friends who are adopted/fostered), not to have kids, or to have small families. My sister's kids may decide to have 6 kids a piece. We just don't know.

All I know is that the odds of my kids living a more eco-friendly, less consumer-driven lifestyle are greater than those of my sister's gotta-have-it-kids.

No matter how many children you have (or not) and how you come about parenting the children (birthing, fostering, adopting), what right does anyone have to say what is the right number of children for anyone or what is "too many"?


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

If you change the word 'population' for people, partners, friends, lovers or family you see something different?

What if my third child falls in love with someone's second child and becomes a strong kind loving partner to them, parent to someone's grandchildren and daughter in law to someone?

What if my fourth child becomes a special person in the life of your first child through friendship or her work or her kindness or her art or her music?

I hear the environmental arguments loud and clear: I am frugal with cash and far more thrifty with the earth's resources than my SIL with only one child despite the fact that there are 6 of us.

My third and fourth children should not be people I apologise for or people who have to atone for their existence in later life.


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## Miss 1928 (Nov 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoulaSarah* 
Lux - I do understand where you are coming from, and I don't take any offense by it. I do what I can to educate my children, and FWIW, I am from a small family, and so is my husband, and yet we have five children. I did have twins, which don't run in the family, and it was close to being triplets, which really don't run in the family! I never thought that I would ever ever have five kids.

What I hope to do, is show the kids that by having our own chickens, growing a large garden, shopping locally all year from the markets and having a CSA (we are in MN, so it's not always possible in winter) buying in bulk for meat from a local farmer, using E85, homebirthing, breastfeeding, shopping second hand for everything...blah blah blah...you get the point...is that this earth is incredibly fragile and that we need to watch what we do to it. I do think that we live in a fallen world and it won't get better until Jesus comes!! But again, that is just me!

What are CSA and E85?


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## pixiekisses (Oct 14, 2008)

I haven't read the whole thread, just OP.
But I'm sorry you had to deal with such ignorant ppl, I know the feeling, having 5 kids myself.
And I have to say, your kids are so beautiful!


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## CanidFL (Jul 30, 2007)

OP - You and DH are total hotties and your children are just gorgeous. I am jealous of your big family since 1 is driving me up the wall







Ignore that rude women and keep on doing what you are doing.


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## Ks Mama (Aug 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KJoslyn78* 
And while Dh and I are done having children (my tube were tied, i get very unwell while pregnant, and DH and I said we were done after 4 pregnancies (1 ended in m/c), i know personally if i could have done it physically, i would have loved more.


I think things like this play into the decision not to have more or have more children, far more than anyone wants to admit.
Reasons like "good for the environment", etc. are much easier than admitting that our bodies don't birth babies well.

I had two c-sections & both my children have blood incompatibility with me which requires intensive care immediately after birth, hospital stay, follow up home care for weeks, etc.

We'd be kidding ourselves if we didn't admit that our concerns over pregnancy/birth weighed very heavily in our decision to stop at 2.

I think we all need to take it a little easier on each other with our decisions on how many children to have or not to have.


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## homebirthing (Nov 10, 2002)

CSA is community supported agriculture. Basically you buy into a farm share and then work the land a couple of times throughout the season and get a box of organic produce every week.

E85 is corn based fuel. It is 85% corn and 15% gas. It is about 30-45 cents cheaper here too! I filled up for 1.20 a gallon the other day!! I almost passed out!

Canid- I think that in a lot of ways, having one child can be just as hard as having five. Now if I had one after having five...piece of cake! But when one is all you know, and you have to be the soul source of entertainment for that child...it can be really draining sometimes. My babies can be held by my older girls, and they are a huge source of entertainment for them. It is fantastic!


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## homebirthing (Nov 10, 2002)

Also, I would have more if I could handle a pregnancy. I have severe hyperemesis, and was sick until 20 weeks this last time. That would be unfair to put onto five kids, and my husband (not to mention me!) again. Birth is easy for me and postpartum too. But the pregnancy...uck! I haven't ever felt the call to adopt, but you never know what the future holds.

At this point, I am starting back to birth as a doula in one month for a family I was with before. They are having a homebirth, and I can have my man bring the babies to nurse. I am starting back apprenticing in April for a second time mom I was with before. (I just attend the prenatals now with the babies) I have one other family that my midwife told me about (attended her birth last time) that is due with another baby in August. After that I will be retiring as a full time doula and basically will be an apprenticing midwife. I can still get my baby fix!


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## Miss 1928 (Nov 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoulaSarah* 
CSA is community supported agriculture. Basically you buy into a farm share and then work the land a couple of times throughout the season and get a box of organic produce every week.

E85 is corn based fuel. It is 85% corn and 15% gas. It is about 30-45 cents cheaper here too! I filled up for 1.20 a gallon the other day!! I almost passed out! ..........

Cool! I wish we had something like CSA here. I feel like it is really challenging to be ecologically responsible here in Italy, and also that it is so frustrating that so many others here are not. I was raised in The San Francisco Bay Area and have a completely different attitude toward the environment and what we need to do to maintain it than many Italians seem to have. At least we are able to drive a car which is rigged to take natural gas.
But this is not really the main subject of your original post.

Thanks DoulaSarah.


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## mytwogirls (Jan 3, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoulaSarah* 
Dear Polite Offender,

You don't know me. I am the woman that walked in with her five beautiful children. We met at a mutual friends house. I am the woman to whom you stared blankly, silently counting my kids...at which point you loudly and rudely exclaimed..."Are these all your kids? OH MY GOD!!!" You said this with a true look of horror on your face. My children witnessed this. Ms. Offender, at my house, and in my family, we absolutely don't take the Lords name in vain. Not to mention that you said so right in front of my kids, not to mention that you found it appalling that I have five children. Aren't you lucky that my triplet died in utero, I wouldn't want you to have a heart attack. Thank goodness for small favors. Next time I will look at you and say, "Wow, what are you, barren?"...oh wait, that would be incredibly hurtful and tactless and horribly insulting and painful. Not to mention just plain rude.

Ms. Politeness, I am wondering on what planet you get to have an opinion on how many children I have? I ask this question because when you sat down next to me and said "So, are you done yet...or are you going to have more?" I thought that maybe YOU thought that I was in some way a part of your life. When you said "yet" like I somehow go around vomiting out children without cause or reason...like I needed to get your permission for each one. I'm sorry, but do I know you? Do you have a say in the lives of my children? Do you even know my name? Do you know my story? Do you know what it took to get these beautiful (if not naughty) children. Do you know how I suffered? Yet you get to look at me, right in my eyes, and question me...on whether or not I am done yet? How does it matter to you, stranger that I will never see again? What if I have five more? What if I have none?

Ms. P.O., When you come in and say that "They are all too much for you, you have to leave...they are too (fill in the blanks, I was seeing red)..." well, you pretty much just don't say that. You can leave, please. I will warm up your car for you. See you now, bye bye!!

You have to understand, those of you with minimal children, that there is nothing wrong with a large family, although five isn't large. I bet that my "carbon footprint" with a family of seven living my lifestyle is less then her family of one. But I won't go there. I wouldn't want to be a polite offender.

Sarah B. mother of five horrible nasty rotten earth ruiners

I have not read the responses only your post and I must say that brought tears to my eyes. Your "rotten horrible earth ruiners" are breath-taking as well as you and your husband. Be proud of your family. You are very lucky and wonderful.


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