# SO PISSED - DH left DS sleeping in a running car



## azmomtoone (Aug 30, 2008)

to go in and grab pizza.









And acts like I'm overreacting to be angry.

My first thought (and what I said) was that a running 'empty' car in a parking lot is going to be the target if someone wants to steal a vehicle.

2nd, that if someone saw DS sleeping in there and decided to call the cops then he could be taken away from us. I don't know if that's actually true or not - does anyone know where I can find laws (google is not helping me here). In Arizona.









I KNOW it's illegal to leave a kid in the car, here if not everywhere....
There was a poster up at the library all summer about leaving your DOG in the car, that if an officer found it the dog would be taken away & you 'could' be arrested.
Um....so a KID?!
DH doesn't believe it's illegal.

I'm really just pissed now that it would even occur to him....I don't know how many times I've left places w/out going in (ie - dropping off library books, mailing stuff at the post office, running into the store for a couple things) because DS had fallen asleep & I didn't want to wake him & deal with him fussy. OR if I HAD to do it then, woken him up & dealt with the crying for the few quick minutes. (and most parents have had to make that choice one way or another, right?) And we've had this conversation several times about how we used to wait in the car for various reasons as kids, and as parents now don't have that option.

DH says "well the pizza was done and it only took two minutes". (called ahead to order, just picking up, they don't deliver here....) OK - Except no way he could have known that his was done before he went in.

*and FWIW, not that it makes a difference, DS would not have gone w/ if we thought he'd fall asleep, it's still 2 hours before he usually goes to bed. It's about a 7 min drive.....


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## chiara (Apr 6, 2005)

grrr. I've left kids in the car for a minute to go grab a pizza, but with the car off and locked and in plain sight. car running .... those days are over, imo.


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## azmomtoone (Aug 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chiara* 
grrr. I've left kids in the car for a minute to go grab a pizza, but with the car off and locked and in plain sight. car running .... those days are over, imo.

Seriously? You don't worry about someone grabbing the kids, or seeing them and calling the police (or maybe someone who is a police officer being there seeing them?)
Recently?


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## MommyKelly (Jun 6, 2009)

I was told it is illigal to leve a child under 6 alone in the car in Arizona.

Hugs Mama! I would be livid.


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## luv-my-boys (Dec 8, 2008)

yes in AZ it is illegal to leave a child (not sure what age 5 or 6) unattended in a vehicle regardless of it running or not. At the very least you would get a ticket, not sure what the fine is but here in CA in our county it is $500 and they "may" refer to CPS. IMO I wouldnt do it even if it were legal. Too many what if's


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## SunshineJ (Mar 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *azmomtoone* 
Seriously? You don't worry about someone grabbing the kids, or seeing them and calling the police (or maybe someone who is a police officer being there seeing them?)
Recently?

This is something that's debated periodically here, and the end result is basically that the laws vary by state and area, and in some areas that's a common practice, whereas in others it's absolutely not acceptable. I can understand why you're upset with your dh. Forget the legality of it, the car was an invitation to be stolen (depending where you live) and what if someone had read ended the car.


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## BrittneyMarie (Nov 11, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *luv-my-boys* 
I wouldnt do it even if it were legal. Too many what if's


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

meh. I've done it before - to run in and pay for gas, grab a pop, etc. And I'll wager that I'll do it again.


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## DivineMrsM (Dec 19, 2008)

yep, i do it all the time. my 2.5 yo is not strong enough to get himself out of his seat yet. and i lock the doors so no one will steal our van. i often had to drive to even get the kid to sleep to begin with. no way was i going to wake him up for a 2 minute pick up.

as far as i know, it's not illegal here (ontario)


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Huge no-no.







Tell the dh if he endangers your child like that again, you'll no longer be able to trust him to care for his own child. And tell the shopkeeper to call the police on your dh next time it happens. Tough love!


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## earthmama369 (Jul 29, 2005)

In a safe area, where I can see my van (like right in front of a plate glass window of a pizza joint), weather permitting, I have locked my van and run in for a minute or two. In this area, I feel comfortable doing that. But I would NEVER leave a car running, keys in the ignition, with my children in the car. God forbid someone try to steal the car, or that my child chooses that minute to figure out how to get out of the carseat buckles for the first time and take the car for a test drive. Both are unlikely to happen, but likely enough that I won't risk it. It's easy enough to lock the car and take the keys with me.


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## sehbub (Mar 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *philomom* 
Huge no-no.







Tell the dh if he endangers your child like that again, you'll no longer be able to trust him to care for his own child. And tell the shopkeeper to call the police on your dh next time it happens. Tough love!









Really? Wow. And you don't think that's even remotely extreme and blown out of proportion? Telling the shopkeeper to call the cops? Geez.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *earthmama369* 
In a safe area, where I can see my van (like right in front of a plate glass window of a pizza joint), weather permitting, I have locked my van and run in for a minute or two. In this area, I feel comfortable doing that. But I would NEVER leave a car running, keys in the ignition, with my children in the car. God forbid someone try to steal the car, or that my child chooses that minute to figure out how to get out of the carseat buckles for the first time and take the car for a test drive. Both are unlikely to happen, but likely enough that I won't risk it. It's easy enough to lock the car and take the keys with me.

This is us too. I have no problem leaving my 2 and 3 year old in the car with the doors locked and the keys in my pocket while I run in to grab a soda/pay for gas, etc. It's a heck of a lot easier than hauling both of them out of car seats, in to coats, in to the store, wrangling both while I grab what I want/need, then back to the car, unlock it (don't have a remote), open both doors, coats off, buckled back in, and THEN get on our way/pump gas.

I've also left my big kids in the car if they don't feel like coming in the store with me while I grab a gallon of milk or something else small and quick, with my eldest (10 in Jan) holding my cell phone and again, the car locked.

To the OP - honestly, if the doors were locked and he could see the vehicle the entire time, I wouldn't vilify the man for letting the kid sleep if the area you live in is safe and not known for car-jackings. I'm sure he loves your son just as much as you do, you know? Can you honestly say you've never done something with your son that could be construed as dangerous, no matter the intention? (FWIW, co-sleeping, baby-wearing and self-feeding can all be construed as potentially dangerous depending on who you ask.)


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## Peony (Nov 27, 2003)

It just depends where you live I guess. Big city then heck no to a running car with a child in it but very small town might be another story. I personally would of shut off the car, locked it and dashed inside, BUT I live in a small town where unlocked doors are still very common. Would I do that in a city, no. I do leave sleeping DD2 and DS in the car with it running to walk in and grab DD1 from school or help her change into dance clothes at the dance studio before dropping her off. I'm very comfortable in those places, I know the parents that pull in, I'm a very short distance away, and I can see my car. In other places I either sit in the car and wait until they wake up, wake them up, or maybe lock the car and run in if it is a few certain places that I frequent.


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## urchin_grey (Sep 26, 2006)

YIKES.

I admit I have "left" DS in the car a couple times at the gas station but only if there are like NO other people there (like, its 3am or something) and I drive right up to the door, pay, and run back to the car and then pull up to the pump. DS is in plain sight the whole time and I'm 20 feet away at the most and it takes like 10 seconds total to get back to the car. Oh, and the car is shut off and all doors locked.







Any other time though I bring him in with me, no matter how inconvenient.


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## writteninkursive (Feb 22, 2009)

I just left my kids in the car for the first time ever last week. I have three of them, all in car seats, all under 4 years old, and I had to run in for about 50 seconds to pay a bill. There's never a line and two of the three were sleeping. I shut off that van, locked the door, and ran in the office really quick. You can't see kids in the back of a privacy-windowed van, and I don't have any idea if it's legal or not here (in Ohio). I was surprised how well it worked out! They just slept and sat happily. SOO much less work than dragging them all in. Hmm. Interesting different opinions on this. Definitely wouldn't leave them in the car with it running and unlocked! Unless I was in my own driveway.


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## InstinctiveMom (Jul 12, 2004)

Quote:

To the OP - honestly, if the doors were locked and he could see the vehicle the entire time, I wouldn't vilify the man for letting the kid sleep if the area you live in is safe and not known for car-jackings. I'm sure he loves your son just as much as you do, you know?
Ditto that for my .02. I've left my kids in the car (they're close in age and getting 2 babes out to pop in would have been ridiculous) running with the doors locked, in sight, to pop in, and would do it again. I think you're over reacting.

And this:

Quote:

Huge no-no. Tell the dh if he endangers your child like that again, you'll no longer be able to trust him to care for his own child. And tell the shopkeeper to call the police on your dh next time it happens. Tough love!
IMO is taking it a bit far. Actually, WAY too far. If you disagree with his decision, then talk to him, explain your position and request that even if he disagrees, that he take your feelings into consideration in the future. You get more flies with honey, and all that. He's not smoking crack - he was picking up food. Nearly every pizza joint here is in a strip mall type place, with a glass wall in front and door parking. You're literally 10 steps from car to counter. In a similar area/situation, I just don't see this as worth "threatening" your child's father over. And... if he just wasn't thinking when he ran in and thought badly of himself for making a poor decision in hindsight, I'd be *mad as hel*l if my spouse called a shopkeeper to keep tabs on me when I was out with my kid.


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## pacificbliss (Jun 17, 2006)

I think i must be way paranoid. Legal or not I never leave kids in the car. Sometimes it is a real PITA but I will think things like, "what if I run in there, fall, hit my head and I'm unconscious and no one knows DS is in the car". Of course, I realize these thoughts are my issue so I would probably explain to DH that I would feel a lot better if he promised not to leave DS in the car.


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

I'm sorry you're so upset mama, I'm sure you mean well. At the same time, it's this kind of paranoia that leads to overprotective parenting in the first place. Your husband is a capable and loving father. Your reaction risks pushing his efforts at parenting into the background, so please reconsider chewing him out over this. It's ok if you wouldn't do it, but it's not likely anything would 'go wrong' in that situation and it sounds like your DH handled it fine.

You might want to do some reading on the concept of Free Range Parenting. I've left my children in a locked vehicle many a time and will definitely do so again. If they're asleep in their carseat while I need to run in and grab a pizza? You're darn tootin' I will!

I felt a lot like you when I had one kiddo, but with the addition of 3 more (and #5 on the way) I've added a healthy dose of realism to go with my parenting and I'm much saner and happier for it, as are my children and husband.

Good luck mama


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pacificbliss* 
I think i must be way paranoid. Legal or not I never leave kids in the car. Sometimes it is a real PITA but I will think things like, "what if I run in there, fall, hit my head and I'm unconscious and no one knows DS is in the car". Of course, I realize these thoughts are my issue so I would probably explain to DH that I would feel a lot better if he promised not to leave DS in the car.

Ok but if you're going to look at the potential for each situation to turn catastrophic in an effort to protect your children...

-What if you take your child in and a burglar robs the store RIGHT THEN, shooting you and your child?

-What if you are one of the thousands of people DAILY involved in fatal care accidents and your child is killed simply by being in your vehicle?

-What if you are carjacked?

-What if...what if....

We can't live our lives on what if. Statistically speaking your child is in more danger taking a bath than being in the OP's DH's situation.


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## hipmummy (May 25, 2007)

I leave my guys in the car in the driveway. It is illegal to leave them in a running car in my state. Not a problem if it not running but we live in an area where your car would easily get carjacked so I will not be leaving them alone in a car while I get a pizza. But to take a pee or poop







at my home yes.

BTW: when I was 5 and my brother was 3, mom left us sleeping in the car only to find we had both woken up and put the car in gear and crashed into my neighbors fence across the street(we put it in reverse).


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## uumomma (Jun 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamadelbosque* 
meh. I've done it before - to run in and pay for gas, grab a pop, etc. And I'll wager that I'll do it again.

me too.


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## uumomma (Jun 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Theoretica* 
Ok but if you're going to look at the potential for each situation to turn catastrophic in an effort to protect your children...

-What if you take your child in and a burglar robs the store RIGHT THEN, shooting you and your child?

-What if you are one of the thousands of people DAILY involved in fatal care accidents and your child is killed simply by being in your vehicle?

-What if you are carjacked?

-What if...what if....

We can't live our lives on what if. Statistically speaking your child is in more danger taking a bath than being in the OP's DH's situation.


if i lived my life full of "what if's" i would never leave the house.

i choose not to live in fear.


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## ArtsyMomma (Jul 19, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Theoretica* 









I'm sorry you're so upset mama, I'm sure you mean well. At the same time, it's this kind of paranoia that leads to overprotective parenting in the first place. Your husband is a capable and loving father. Your reaction risks pushing his efforts at parenting into the background, so please reconsider chewing him out over this. It's ok if you wouldn't do it, but it's not likely anything would 'go wrong' in that situation and it sounds like your DH handled it fine.

You might want to do some reading on the concept of Free Range Parenting. I've left my children in a locked vehicle many a time and will definitely do so again. If they're asleep in their carseat while I need to run in and grab a pizza? You're darn tootin' I will!

I felt a lot like you when I had one kiddo, but with the addition of 3 more (and #5 on the way) I've added a healthy dose of realism to go with my parenting and I'm much saner and happier for it, as are my children and husband.

Good luck mama

That is a great, mind opening blog. I check it every day!

Just tonight the kids and I went to get pizza, I left the 3 of them in the car while I went inside. Unbuckling and putting coats on 3 kids, then taking coats off and rebuckling turns a 3 minute excursion into a 20 minute one. I don't leave the car running - I turn the car off, lock the doors and take the keys with me. But I have no problem leaving the kids alone in the car. The chance of something happening to them in a parked car, in a safe area is so remote - odds are better that we would be hurt in a car accident driving to the pizza place.

Honestly - I was a super uber protective mom when my first was born. Over the years I really lightened up. When I became a single mom (6 weeks after the birth of child #3) things really changed. Life is a lot less stressful now that I don't worry about every little thing.


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## writteninkursive (Feb 22, 2009)

Theoretica, thanks for that link! Interesting!


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## AnnieNimIty (Nov 14, 2009)

If it is super cold or hot outside I take the keys, and lock the door, but leave the car running. We have an auto starter that leaves the car on for 15 minute intervals when you push the button.

I have totally ran into gas stations and convince stores with my little one buckled into her car seat. I am pretty sure my husband has as well.


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## MJB (Nov 28, 2009)

I wouldn't leave a car running with the doors unlocked, but I leave my kids in my locked car if I have to run in somewhere, even into the grocery store for 1 or 2 things. They prefer to wait in the car and I don't think they are in any danger.
It is not against the law to leave kids in the car in my state unless it is for a period of time that posed an unreasonable risk of harm or injury to the child or under circumstances that posed an unreasonable risk of harm or injury to the child. And that law applies to children under 6.
Leaving my almost-7yo and 4yo in a locked car, in a safe area, in moderate temperatures, for under 10 minutes, is completely safe and legal.
I don't think anyone could argue that leaving a sleeping child in a locked car to run in and grab a pizza is negligent or dangerous. If you feel that way, it's not because of real risks but because of media scaremongering.


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## jspring0308 (Jul 24, 2008)

This is why I wouldn't leave.....http://www.postandcourier.com/news/2...o-his-parents/


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## Dov'sMom (Jan 24, 2007)

Not an asnwer to why he did it (DH also insists it's okay to leave DSs in the car (even if they're awake!) while he runs into the bank/UPS/etc., but after I've sent him myriad CPS horror stories he's agreed not to do it anymore even if he still thinks it's safe), but a potential solution, to the pizza problem if no other -- at two local pizza shops I've ordered ahead, gotten there to realize that for whatever reason it would be hard to get the kids out (once, sleeping DS; once, crowded parking lot) and called in and the kind counter guy brought the pizza out to me.

Of course that doesn't address the safety issue... Like many here, I'm far more concerned with safety from the police/cps/overactive government than anything else.


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jspring0308* 
This is why I wouldn't leave.....http://www.postandcourier.com/news/2...o-his-parents/

So I'm just asking here, no snark whatsoever...

Do news stories of fatal car accidents stop you from using automobiles? Because there are a LOT more of those every day than the extremely rare situation like you linked to above. In fact, there's a 1 in 100 chance you or your child could die in a motor vehicle accident. The odds of your child being kidnapped? 1 in about 350,000.

Sometimes looking at logic and factual information helps the irrational fears subside.


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## couponmom85 (Dec 27, 2009)

As a Parent You have to Do what YOU think is SAFE And Right for YOUR Child.
I was SHOCKED When I watched that DR Phil episode a While back about this topic. One lady is SO AFRAID she Will take her child Out of The car Just to Walk around the car to Put mail in her mail box!

My son has been left in the car in the driveway after i have started it. BUT i live at the top of A Hill and I know all my neighbors around me. Not to Mention we are in a Fenced in community.
Also I have left him in the car to run in and Pay for gas (Only when he was smaller and Car was LOCKED and OFF)

Those days are Gone for me though.
He knows how to unbuckle and get out of the backseat.

You just need to do whats right for your kids and Your family.
If you can see your child and You are in a SAFE place i have no problem with leaving a child in the car for 1 min to get something. But this child cant Know how to get out of his or her seat.


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## rere (Apr 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Theoretica* 
So I'm just asking here, no snark whatsoever...

Do news stories of fatal car accidents stop you from using automobiles? Because there are a LOT more of those every day than the extremely rare situation like you linked to above. In fact, there's a 1 in 100 chance you or your child could die in a motor vehicle accident. The odds of your child being kidnapped? 1 in about 350,000.

Sometimes looking at logic and factual information helps the irrational fears subside.









Also asking without snark...do you have any idea about how likely a CPS visit would be for someone who leaves the kids in the car?I am way more worried about someone's judgment than I am of my daughter being stolen.And it seems that was a concern of the OP's as well.


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

And yet another reason I love my remote starter! I leave my kids in the car for a few minutes, only where I can see them, often. I take the keys with me and leave the car running. That's also only in my teeny little town, never in a bigger city.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *philomom* 
Huge no-no.







Tell the dh if he endangers your child like that again, you'll no longer be able to trust him to care for his own child. And tell the shopkeeper to call the police on your dh next time it happens. Tough love!









That's just ridiculous. Doesn't a father have a right to decide when or if his child is in danger just as much as a mother does?


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## noobmom (Jan 19, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Theoretica* 
So I'm just asking here, no snark whatsoever...

Do news stories of fatal car accidents stop you from using automobiles? Because there are a LOT more of those every day than the extremely rare situation like you linked to above. In fact, there's a 1 in 100 chance you or your child could die in a motor vehicle accident. The odds of your child being kidnapped? 1 in about 350,000.

Sometimes looking at logic and factual information helps the irrational fears subside.









There's a difference between something preventable and not preventable. You do the best you can to avoid being in a car accident by driving defensively, not going out in snow storms, etc. But ultimately, if a drunk driver hits you, it's just the case of being at the wrong place at the wrong time.

Those who choose not to leave their children in the car have decided that it's worth the *minor* inconvenience of taking the children out of the car in order to completely prevent certain scenarios. Saying that we're "living in fear" is ridiculous. Do you lock your doors at night because you live in fear? Or because it's a simple measure where the pros outweigh the cons? And yes, I realize that it's easy to break into a house even if the doors are locked. That doesn't mean I'm going to make it easier for someone by leaving my doors and windows unlocked and open.

Personally, I don't judge people who DO leave their kids in cars. However, in OP's case she's talking about her own son and she's not comfortable with it. Also, I think it's very irresponsible to leave a kid in a running car. Turned off and doors locked is a different story.


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## emmalizz (Apr 14, 2009)

.


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rere* 
Also asking without snark...do you have any idea about how likely a CPS visit would be for someone who leaves the kids in the car?I am way more worried about someone's judgment than I am of my daughter being stolen.And it seems that was a concern of the OP's as well.

Not very likely. Honestly.

People won't call CPS when they see a kid being smacked at the grocery store. Again, the chances of it even being noticed are extremely minimal, and of anyone doing anything are even MORE minimal, especially in such a short time span.

I called CPS a couple months ago when a 4 and 3yo were jumping in and out of their (empty) car in a parking lot and running in and out of the vehicles. There was no parent in sight for 15 minutes at LEAST and these kids could have gotten killed running around a busy parking lot. Plenty of people walked by and did NOTHING. CPS told me to call the police (which I did) because it wasn't their department, saying the police refer those sorts of things on to CPS if they think there's a need to do so. The police arrived and secured the kids in the squad car, then came and talked to me. Then one of them went looking for the mom in area stores. By now it had been 45 minutes of them being alone. Finally they found the mom and she was furious...if looks could kill...

Anyways they gave her a ticket and she left. With her kids. In crappy booster seats.

So no, I don't think it's a big deal to leave your kids, secured in their carseats (as opposed to running loose in the parking lot), in a locked vehicle. I don't think it's risky, I don't think it's inherently dangerous, and I certainly don't think the government is that desperate to involve themselves in my life at a moment's notice. Keep in mind I HAVE dealt with CPS and the police numerous times over the years, thanks to adopting two extremely disturbed kiddos who find firesetting and false allegations hilarious. I'm still not convinced that what the OP's DH did was inappropriate in the slightest. I can see the OP disagreeing with it, and if she handles it differently than her DH so be it. But to vilify him as if he's a neglectful, careless, irresponsible parent? Totally not ok, JIMHO, and sets their parenting journey up for major roadblocks in the future.


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## rere (Apr 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Theoretica* 
Not very likely. Honestly.

People won't call CPS when they see a kid being smacked at the grocery store. Again, the chances of it even being noticed are extremely minimal, and of anyone doing anything are even MORE minimal, especially in such a short time span.

I called CPS a couple months ago when a 4 and 3yo were jumping in and out of their (empty) car in a parking lot and running in and out of the vehicles. There was no parent in sight for 15 minutes at LEAST and these kids could have gotten killed running around a busy parking lot. Plenty of people walked by and did NOTHING. CPS told me to call the police (which I did) because it wasn't their department, saying the police refer those sorts of things on to CPS if they think there's a need to do so. The police arrived and secured the kids in the squad car, then came and talked to me. Then one of them went looking for the mom in area stores. By now it had been 45 minutes of them being alone. Finally they found the mom and she was furious...if looks could kill...

Anyways they gave her a ticket and she left. With her kids. In crappy booster seats.

So no, I don't think it's a big deal to leave your kids, secured in their carseats (as opposed to running loose in the parking lot), in a locked vehicle. I don't think it's risky, I don't think it's inherently dangerous, and I certainly don't think the government is that desperate to involve themselves in my life at a moment's notice. Keep in mind I HAVE dealt with CPS and the police numerous times over the years, thanks to adopting two extremely disturbed kiddos who find firesetting and false allegations hilarious. I'm still not convinced that what the OP's DH did was inappropriate in the slightest. I can see the OP disagreeing with it, and if she handles it differently than her DH so be it. But to vilify him as if he's a neglectful, careless, irresponsible parent? Totally not ok, JIMHO, and sets their parenting journey up for major roadblocks in the future.

Thanks for your response.I guess for me,what I really need to do is find out what the law in my state is and what the consequences for breaking it(if it's against the law)are.


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## rere (Apr 21, 2005)

Here are links to some state laws(scroll down).And some proposed laws(including Arizona).Although by now some of the proposed laws may be laws?


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## pixiekisses (Oct 14, 2008)

I'd be livid too. But my SO would never do that, he thinks it's as unsafe as I do. We never leave kids alone in the car, ever, for no reason what so ever.

(I don't even know if it's illegal here, and I don't care. It's just never going to happen.)


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *earthmama369* 
In a safe area, where I can see my van (like right in front of a plate glass window of a pizza joint), weather permitting, I have locked my van and run in for a minute or two. In this area, I feel comfortable doing that. But I would NEVER leave a car running, keys in the ignition, with my children in the car. God forbid someone try to steal the car, or that my child chooses that minute to figure out how to get out of the carseat buckles for the first time and take the car for a test drive. Both are unlikely to happen, but likely enough that I won't risk it. It's easy enough to lock the car and take the keys with me.

I agree. Parked RIGHT in front of a plate glass window, close and direct line of sight, something VERY quick, with mild weather, with child buckled into carseat, with doors LOCKED = ok in my world.

Unlocked, running car = no way, no matter how small the town. I won't even do that in my driveway.


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## ledzepplon (Jun 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hipmummy* 
I leave my guys in the car in the driveway. It is illegal to leave them in a running car in my state. Not a problem if it not running but we live in an area where your car would easily get carjacked so I will not be leaving them alone in a car while I get a pizza. But to take a pee or poop







at my home yes.

BTW: when I was 5 and my brother was 3, mom left us sleeping in the car only to find we had both woken up and put the car in gear and crashed into my neighbors fence across the street(we put it in reverse).









It's not that you only have to worry if you "live in an area where your car would easily get carkjacked."

A few years ago a mom left her little sleeping baby in a car outside a sandwich shop in La Jolla, CA--a very affluent area--with the keys in the car. She was just running in to pick up an order she had called in. Her car was stolen. Luckily, the car was found, with baby still inside, abandoned a few hours later. But what a terrible panic that mom must have experienced. Just not worth it, IMO. (I remember the incident pretty clearly because we lived near there at the time.)


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## fairejour (Apr 15, 2004)

Am I the only one who can leave the car running AND lock the doors? I have done that so that the air can stay on, but only while running inside our house.


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fairejour* 
Am I the only one who can leave the car running AND lock the doors? I have done that so that the air can stay on, but only while running inside our house.

Nope, I've done it because it keeps the temp stable inside the vehicle. Again, kiddo in secure carseat, doors locked (and I have tinted windows, you can't see inside). Sometimes my 8yo will stay in the van like this also. She piles up in a back seat with her books and music and won't budge LOL


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## azmomtoone (Aug 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *noobmom* 
There's a difference between something preventable and not preventable. You do the best you can to avoid being in a car accident by driving defensively, not going out in snow storms, etc. But ultimately, if a drunk driver hits you, it's just the case of being at the wrong place at the wrong time.

Those who choose not to leave their children in the car have decided that it's worth the *minor* inconvenience of taking the children out of the car in order to completely prevent certain scenarios. Saying that we're "living in fear" is ridiculous. Do you lock your doors at night because you live in fear? Or because it's a simple measure where the pros outweigh the cons? And yes, I realize that it's easy to break into a house even if the doors are locked. That doesn't mean I'm going to make it easier for someone by leaving my doors and windows unlocked and open.

Personally, I don't judge people who DO leave their kids in cars. However, in OP's case she's talking about her own son and she's not comfortable with it. Also, I think it's very irresponsible to leave a kid in a running car. Turned off and doors locked is a different story.

Thank you....this exactly is what I was thinking. Talking about ONE kid here, not 3, 4, 5 ...ONE. Who, yes, would have been unhappy being woken up, but would've likely gone right back to sleep as soon as the car was moving. Or he could've come back home when DS fell asleep and left DS here and gone back to get the pizza...which would have been a bit colder. Either of those two options, minor inconvenience.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rere* 
Here are links to some state laws(scroll down).And some proposed laws(including Arizona).Although by now some of the proposed laws may be laws?

Thank you...that's what I was looking for. Just to be clear on what I am saying and why.

Quote:

Am I the only one who can leave the car running AND lock the doors?
In our case, no you cannot. Same key for the ignition and doors, and we don't have a pushbutton. (To start the car OR to lock/unlock it). If DH had had his car, yes, because it has a button to lock the doors...However, his car does not have a carseat in it ATM, so he had my car. So if it was running, it was unlocked.
(OK, yes, technically you can have the engine on and lock the doors, but you'll have to call somebody to unlock it. Done it, accidently (pre-kid...not to say I couldn't make the same mistake again, but I'd def. be right there next to it the whole time).

And Yeah, I am more worried about CPS then about something actually happening, which is maybe silly - but nonetheless.


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

In the (albeit infrequent) event that I do this, I have two keys...one in the ignition and one in my pocket.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

There's probably a greater danger to walking your kid through a parking lot.


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## azmomtoone (Aug 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sehbub* 

To the OP - honestly, if the doors were locked and he could see the vehicle the entire time, I wouldn't vilify the man for letting the kid sleep if the area you live in is safe and not known for car-jackings. I'm sure he loves your son just as much as you do, you know? Can you honestly say you've never done something with your son that could be construed as dangerous, no matter the intention? (FWIW, co-sleeping, baby-wearing and self-feeding can all be construed as potentially dangerous depending on who you ask.)

I'm not "vilifying" him....I was just very very angry last night, mostly based on fear.... which is silly. But I still really feel it was the wrong decision. Yes he does love our son very much, he's a great dad, I know that.
And like someone else said...ANYTHING can be considered dangerous if you want to look for something that could go wrong. The (albeit small) risk of losing our son (whether to an accident, kidnapping/carjacking, or CPS) just doesn't warrant not having the very minor inconvenience of taking the kid out of the seat or bringing him back home before getting the pizza.
I'm not calling the police on him! What sense does that make??! (um, hey, someone might have called the police on you, so I'm going to)........just looking for the right info to hopefully help him see where I'm coming from.

(and venting because I needed to .... )


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## sehbub (Mar 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fairejour* 
Am I the only one who can leave the car running AND lock the doors? I have done that so that the air can stay on, but only while running inside our house.

That's not an option with our car. If the car is running the door locks will NOT engage while in Park. Only when the vehicle is in gear.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *azmomtoone* 
I'm not "vilifying" him....I was just very very angry last night, mostly based on fear.... which is silly. But I still really feel it was the wrong decision. Yes he does love our son very much, he's a great dad, I know that.
And like someone else said...ANYTHING can be considered dangerous if you want to look for something that could go wrong. The (albeit small) risk of losing our son (whether to an accident, kidnapping/carjacking, or CPS) just doesn't warrant not having the very minor inconvenience of taking the kid out of the seat or bringing him back home before getting the pizza.
I'm not calling the police on him! What sense does that make??! (um, hey, someone might have called the police on you, so I'm going to)........just looking for the right info to hopefully help him see where I'm coming from.

*(and venting because I needed to .... )*

That is absolutely understandable.


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## MommyKelly (Jun 6, 2009)

I also want to point out that OP is in Arizona. We are a border state, and have a VERY HIGH car theft rate. I dont care what part of town you are in. We lived in a beautiful part of town on a golf course. I was home less then 10 minutes, and my car was stolen out of our driveway. It was recovered a month later being used to transport people across the border.

You hear on the news all the time about someone leaving their car going with their baby in it, and someone jumps in and takes off. Luckily they are always recovered, but could you even imagine how you would feel?

If I need something that bad, I will hit up the drive thru, or get them out of the car.

Would I do it in small town USA?, probably. Here NO WAY.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyKelly* 
I also want to point out that OP is in Arizona. We are a border state, and have a VERY HIGH car theft rate. I dont care what part of town you are in. We lived in a beautiful part of town on a golf course. I was home less then 10 minutes, and my car was stolen out of our driveway. It was recovered a month later being used to transport people across the border.

You hear on the news all the time about someone leaving their car going with their baby in it, and someone jumps in and takes off. Luckily they are always recovered, but could you even imagine how you would feel?

If I need something that bad, I will hit up the drive thru, or get them out of the car.

Would I do it in small town USA?, probably. Here NO WAY.

That does make a huge difference. There's really no auto theft at all here, so it wouldn't bother me, but someplace with a big threat of that, I'd feel differently.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Moving to Parenting


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## Melaniee (Apr 15, 2002)

I would be uncomfortable with it. I've only JUST started leaving DC in the car (locked but they could get out and alarm would go off, no keys so no one could steal it, and only in cool weather with windows partway down, but not so much someone could get in at them) in the lot, at the bank, first spot facing the doors so I can literally see the car. Not that I'm paranoid or anything. LOL. Ds is 8, Dd is 4 and strapped in to her seat that she cannot undo (Ds could if need-be but knows when he should not).


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

I wish people'd stop telling the OP that she'll "relax" when she has more kids. It's a personality thing not just a first-time parent thing. My SIL has two kids and would get irate at my BIL if he did that, whereas I'd tell dh that it's not a great idea because of the CPS risk and he'd probably be the one to come up with the idea of calling the pizza place to get them to bring the pizzas out the next time.


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## Materfamilias (Feb 22, 2008)

No to keys in the ignition and car running. I'm too paranoid for that. I have left kids in a locked car to go into a gas station to pay for fuel but ONLY if I can see 'em. Too many freaks out there. Maybe it's cause I lived in LA for awhile...?


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

you know OP this isnt really about the legality of it.

its about parenting together. no one really obeys all the laws. so truly i dont think the legal aspect is that important.

what is important is getting to your dh your opinion without chewing him out.

for me what stands out is your info on your siggie. myself i would see no wrong in what your dh did. however you guys are going to apply for adoption. when that happens you want to make sure your record is squeaky clean and there are NO records. which really isnt the reason why you chewed him out in the first place.


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## Kailey's mom (Apr 19, 2007)

I'm guilty of this.. especially at the gas station. I know everyone who works there and I park so I can clearly see my dd while she sleeps. Sometimes, they will just come out and get the cash so I dont' have to go in.. if not, we all keep an eye on her. I wouldn't do this at any random gas station though. If I need a soda or something or something, I take advantage of those little drive through farm stores







I wish they were EVERYWHERE LOL. I really think it depends where you live, who you know, and your child. I do agree with locking the doors, just because.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten* 
Unlocked, running car = no way, no matter how small the town. I won't even do that in my driveway.

Yeah, I never leave my car running, kids in it or not. Well, not never, just the other day I had to jump out in my driveway, to grab my purse from the behind my seat, but almost never. I just don't like to leave the car running when I'm not in it, and I especially wouldn't want to leave it running if there are children in it. However, if it was night and my child was sleeping and I was parked right in front of a take-n-bake pizza place, I probably would run in without waking him up, just locking the doors and turning off the engine.


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## SpiderMum (Sep 13, 2008)

I've left DD in the car before. I turn it off, lock the doors, and make sure the keys are in my hand when I close the door. I've done it to run into a gas station to pay. I parked right out front so I could see her the whole time. Other times I've left something dire in my apartment and would leave her in the locked car to run upstairs and get it. We live in a safe area so I'm not that worried.


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## rere (Apr 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meemee* 
you know OP this isnt really about the legality of it.

its about parenting together. no one really obeys all the laws. so truly i dont think the legal aspect is that important.

what is important is getting to your dh your opinion without chewing him out.

for me what stands out is your info on your siggie. myself i would see no wrong in what your dh did. however you guys are going to apply for adoption. when that happens you want to make sure your record is squeaky clean and there are NO records. which really isnt the reason why you chewed him out in the first place.

Did I miss something?Where did it say she chewed him out?


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

I won't leave the car running without a driver, whether there are passengers, especially children, or not. It's an invitation for theft, it's dangerous if the car slips out of park, and, most of all, it's an environmental wrong.

If it really was only 2 minutes to pick up the pizza, the internal car temperature isn't going to change in that time. There's no reason he couldn't turn off the ignition and lock the doors.

There was a news story here a couple of days ago about a child in the backseat of a car that was stolen. The car was left running and the thief didn't notice that the child until after he took the car. When he did, he pulled over and took off, and the child was unharmed, but it could have been a bad outcome. It happens here every winter - people here leave their cars running in the cold weather and the kids in the back seat. This was the first incident I saw reported this year, but I'm willing to bet it won't be the last. It's entirely preventable.


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## Killick (Apr 15, 2004)

I have done it, and probably will again too. I am in AZ as well, but I only do it in situations where I can see the car. Like the pizza shop, which great big windows, or running into the gas station. But never with the keys, and always with the doors locked and never during the summer. I know that we have the laws here on kids and dogs, but honestly, I have seen officers walk up to cars with dogs in them, and simply walk away, even during the middle of the summer, so I am not sure how strictly they enforce this one.


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## cschick (Aug 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sehbub* 
That's not an option with our car. If the car is running the door locks will NOT engage while in Park. Only when the vehicle is in gear.

See, THAT I'd consider pretty unsafe. I grew up in the city, and if you're in park and waiting (say, for someone to come out of an apartment) you keep your doors locked for safety reasons. What kind of car is this?


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

I've never left the car running, but I have left DC in the car to run in somewhere. I'm very careful about it but because I don't want someone calling CPS more than any safety issue. It's the same reason I insist DC wear bike helmets when we're out. It's the law, though I've read about bike helmets and believe that their purpose as a safety device is overblown.


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cschick* 
See, THAT I'd consider pretty unsafe. I grew up in the city, and if you're in park and waiting (say, for someone to come out of an apartment) you keep your doors locked for safety reasons. What kind of car is this?

A lot of newer cars are like that. My car has all types of "rules" about locking and unlocking that frankly I think are more of a pain than anything. I'd personally rather go back to manual everything to keep from having to go through so much rigamarole to open the trunk.


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## cschick (Aug 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BrandiRhoades* 
A lot of newer cars are like that. My car has all types of "rules" about locking and unlocking that frankly I think are more of a pain than anything. I'd personally rather go back to manual everything to keep from having to go through so much rigamarole to open the trunk.

I just can't believe any company would think that disallowing the ability to lock the car while it's running and in park would be a good idea.

My car has been approached by enough peddlers, bums, and questionable folk while parked on the streets of Chicago that the inability to both keep my car locked and running (for a/c or heat) in park while waiting would lead me to get rid of the car. That's just prime setup for a car jacking there.


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## ShadowMoon (Oct 18, 2006)

I've done this before, to pay for gas, grab something quick from the convenience store, or to run back into the house for something. I don't leave the car running because I prefer to lock it and it's never for more than a minute or two, and never when i'm out of sight of the car. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just that I do it. There are many locations/situations where I would simply not take the risk but I am comfortable enough in the situations where I do.


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## half-pint (Oct 27, 2007)

Leaving them in the car with it running is the big problem for me. I have gone in to pay for gas with the doors locked, or unload the car.

You need to show him this article
http://www.bellinghamherald.com/102/story/835987.html

A woman left her children in a running vehicle in Bellingham, WA while she ran in to return milk cartons. She was gone literally 1 minute. Two women who had been drinking stole the car which resulted in a high speed police chase, which only ended soon because they ran into the canadian border where they have things to slow down speeding cars. Miraculously they did not crash and everyone was fine but it could have been such a needless tragedy! It truly takes less than a minute for someone to carjack the car and she made it easy for them by leaving the keys in, engine running.


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## Polliwog (Oct 29, 2006)

I'll run into the house or to pay for gas at our tiny, local, gas station where the car is right next to the office (and I can stand in the doorway.)

I have to say that I didn't realize that so many people shopped in convenience stores with their kids in the car. I don't think I've ever seen that.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

My Dodge Caravan can be put into drive without pressing the brake. You just pull the gear shift and move it. I wonder how many other cars are this way. Just a little fiddling around with the gear shift and my kiddo would have the car in motion. That's scary stuff.


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## BedHead (Mar 8, 2007)

I have command start, and when the vehicle is warming up the doors automatically lock. I wouldn't think twice about leaving little kids in a command started vehicle in the winter for a minute or two. There's no keys in it, and if it gets put in gear or any of the pedals get touched it shuts off.


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## sehbub (Mar 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cschick* 
See, THAT I'd consider pretty unsafe. I grew up in the city, and if you're in park and waiting (say, for someone to come out of an apartment) you keep your doors locked for safety reasons. What kind of car is this?

It's a 2008 Chevy Uplander. It's definitely not my favorite feature. I don't leave the car running with the kids in it (except for the rare instance I have to run back in to the house) but I know what you mean about sitting and waiting, and if I were living in a different part of the country I'd likely reconsider. It automatically locks when you put it in gear and unlocks when you put it in park.

That, and it's just really super uncomfortable for long car rides. But the cargo space rocks. I just wish I'd been able to find the Suburban or Yukon XL I wanted.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *BrandiRhoades* 
A lot of newer cars are like that. My car has all types of "rules" about locking and unlocking that frankly I think are more of a pain than anything. I'd personally rather go back to manual everything to keep from having to go through so much rigamarole to open the trunk.

We had a 2000 Ford Windstar before the Uplander and I had to hit "unlock" on the driver door panel before I could start the car. It was weird. It was actually really funny to watch guys try and start it to take it in for oil changes, whathaveyou if I'd forgotten to tell them about that feature.


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## inkslinger (May 29, 2009)

I live in a tiny town where everyone knows everyone and have left my kids in the car with the doors locked many a time, while running in to pay for a drink, gas, etc. If there is a plate glass window and I can see them I don't worry about it here. I wouldn't do it in a larger town/city, and never if I couldn't see them from inside of the store, and I wouldn't do it in the summer (our temps are over 120 in summer.)


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## Latte Mama (Aug 25, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cschick* 
I just can't believe any company would think that disallowing the ability to lock the car while it's running and in park would be a good idea.

My car has been approached by enough peddlers, bums, and questionable folk while parked on the streets of Chicago that the inability to both keep my car locked and running (for a/c or heat) in park while waiting would lead me to get rid of the car. That's just prime setup for a car jacking there.

My car automatically unlocks while in park with the engine running. It locks as soon as I move the gear to drive and hit the gas. However, while in park with the engine running I can always *manually* lock it. Do these PP's not have the ability to just push the lock in?


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## sehbub (Mar 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Latte Mama* 
My car automatically unlocks while in park with the engine running. It locks as soon as I move the gear to drive and hit the gas. However, while in park with the engine running I can always *manually* lock it. Do these PP's not have the ability to just push the lock in?

Not in our case. If the car is on and in park, the doors WILL NOT lock, period. You can hit the lock button 'til your finger falls off and nothing will happen.


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## GranoLLLy-girl (Mar 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *noobmom* 
There's a difference between something preventable and not preventable. You do the best you can to avoid being in a car accident by driving defensively, not going out in snow storms, etc. But ultimately, if a drunk driver hits you, it's just the case of being at the wrong place at the wrong time.

Those who choose not to leave their children in the car have decided that it's worth the *minor* inconvenience of taking the children out of the car in order to completely prevent certain scenarios. Saying that we're "living in fear" is ridiculous. Do you lock your doors at night because you live in fear? Or because it's a simple measure where the pros outweigh the cons? And yes, I realize that it's easy to break into a house even if the doors are locked. That doesn't mean I'm going to make it easier for someone by leaving my doors and windows unlocked and open.

Personally, I don't judge people who DO leave their kids in cars. However, in OP's case she's talking about her own son and she's not comfortable with it. Also, I think it's very irresponsible to leave a kid in a running car. Turned off and doors locked is a different story.

THANK YOU FOR THIS. I agree 100%. I will take precautions with my children by doing what I can to prevent accidents, issues, etc., and I don't consider myself for one second a paranoid individual.
But I will say this: I'd never forgive myself if I ended up taking the shortcut and something were to happen to my kids--simply because I don't feel like doing what I know is right FOR ME. And that's judgment reserved ONLY for MYSELF--what you do is up to you. For me, I'll cover myself only because I know I couldn't live with the consequences.


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## mommajb (Mar 4, 2005)

For a period of time in the 1970's my dad worked 2nd shift as a police officer and my mom worked 3rd shift as a nurse. She would carry us out to the car in sleeping bags, drive to the police station, park the car on the street, and walk to the hospital a few blocks away. When my dad finished his paperwork and what not he would look for the car and drive us home. Now she jokes about leaving us parked outside the jail in the middle of the night. Can you imagine doing that today?

I wouldn't leave the car running. I wouldn't feel safer in many of the environments pp are deciding are safe (small towns, middle of the night gas stations, etc). It is not what you expect but the unexpected that is the problem in these situations. Imagine a negative situation. Would you be able to justify your actions to yourself and others? If not, change what you are doing so that you can stand behind it.


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## hi_abbott (Jul 9, 2005)

I think a lot of state laws came about because of weather conditions as opposed to kidnapping hazards.

I would be less inclined to call the cops on a parent who left their child in a car in the spring or fall here. But you better believe I would in the winter or summer. I'm not a big fan of leaving children in cars, period.

I also should add that I hate going into gas stations, and always utilize the pay-at-the-pump to pay for my gas. Here you have to pay before you pump, so it's just easier.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *noobmom* 
There's a difference between something preventable and not preventable. You do the best you can to avoid being in a car accident by driving defensively, not going out in snow storms, etc. But ultimately, if a drunk driver hits you, it's just the case of being at the wrong place at the wrong time.

That's right. So, anytime you take your children with you in a car to go somewhere they don't _have_ to go, you're taking unnecessary chances with their lives (not throwing stones - I do it, too). But, somehow, this wholesale gratuitous risking of children's lives is considered completely socially acceptable, but a parent making a judgment call that their child is okay to be left for a minute while they do something is being all kinds of irresponsible. I don't get it - never have.

Quote:

Those who choose not to leave their children in the car have decided that it's worth the *minor* inconvenience of taking the children out of the car in order to completely prevent certain scenarios.
Why does everyone talk about how minor this is? On several occasions, I've chosen to walk to stores and carry stuff back, rather than have to wrangle my children in and out of car seats. I find it a *major* hassle. On several occasions, I've also chosen to leave them in the car, because that's the safest place for them.

Quote:

Saying that we're "living in fear" is ridiculous. Do you lock your doors at night because you live in fear? Or because it's a simple measure where the pros outweigh the cons? And yes, I realize that it's easy to break into a house even if the doors are locked. That doesn't mean I'm going to make it easier for someone by leaving my doors and windows unlocked and open.
I lock my doors, because the guys I knew who stole from people's homes (I had some really rough friends/acquaintances when I was a teenager) always rattled doorknobs. Most of them wouldn't actually break in, but if a door was unlocked, they'd walk right in. Personally, I've run into a lot more people who are willing to walk into an unlocked home and steal stuff than people who would steal someone's car with a child (or children) in it. Locking my doors is a _very_ easy measure to reduce the odds of being robbed by one of a large number of potential robbers, and it has no downsides. Lugging my children out of the car is a difficult measure, which reduces the very low odds of someone happening to come upon my car in that 30-60 seconds and steal it, and often has the downside of exposing my children to the dangers of a parking lot.

Quote:

Personally, I don't judge people who DO leave their kids in cars. However, in OP's case she's talking about her own son and she's not comfortable with it. Also, I think it's very irresponsible to leave a kid in a running car. Turned off and doors locked is a different story.
In this case, I do think the OP's concerns should win out over her dh's lack of concern, simply because I think co-parents really need to pay attention to one another's concerns. I would also never leave a child in a running car...I find that too scary.


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## Butterfy Baby (Dec 30, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamadelbosque* 
meh. I've done it before - to run in and pay for gas, grab a pop, etc. And I'll wager that I'll do it again.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *earthmama369* 
In a safe area, where I can see my van (like right in front of a plate glass window of a pizza joint), weather permitting, I have locked my van and run in for a minute or two. In this area, I feel comfortable doing that. But I would NEVER leave a car running, keys in the ignition, with my children in the car. God forbid someone try to steal the car, or that my child chooses that minute to figure out how to get out of the carseat buckles for the first time and take the car for a test drive. Both are unlikely to happen, but likely enough that I won't risk it. It's easy enough to lock the car and take the keys with me.

I'm new to this forum but just saw this thread. Hope it's okay to jump in here. I agree with the above two posts.

I live in a small town. One bank, one gas station....and everyone knows your name. My daughter is 2 1/2 years old and has only been in the gas station with me maybe 5 times. I can pay for gas, get back in the drivers seat AND be on the road driving in the amount of time it takes me just to get her OUT of the car seat. I park right by the door. If I cannot get a space by the door, she comes in with me (those 5 times I mentioned).

In extreme weather, I leave the car running with heat/AC on. BUT!!! I LOCK the car and use remote access to enter. And I'm never more than a few feet away. I've done this with pizza places too--I park in the "no parking zone", right by the door--get the pizza and drive off within 1 minute, tops.

If parents use good judgement and do it safely, I don't understand what the big deal is.


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## nudhistbudhist (Jan 13, 2009)

My grandparents always used to leave my brother and I in their motorhome while they ran into the store, etc while we were on vacations. There was one campground we went to every weekend in the summer. When you show up, you have to sign in and get a campsite. Usually we waited for our grandparents to go in and register, but this time we begged to go to the arcade, and they let us. So we go to the arcade, they go and register, and when they come out, the RV is gone... not all the way gone, but it had rolled backwards down the hill and stopped 10 feet short of the outdoor pool. We laughed about it at the time because we were kids, but looking back, that might have been a bad scene had my brother and I still been in it and it had gone into the pool.

I have a terrible habit of locking my keys in the car, so I am EXTREMELY paranoid about having the doors closed if I'm not IN the vehicle. If DH is pumping gas, and wants me to go in to pay, I ALWAYS unroll my window or leave my door open a crack in case somehow the doors lock. We've had a few bizarre door locking incidences (before baby) where the electric locks seemed to have locked themselves... SCARY!!!


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## noobmom (Jan 19, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
Why does everyone talk about how minor this is? On several occasions, I've chosen to walk to stores and carry stuff back, rather than have to wrangle my children in and out of car seats. I find it a *major* hassle. On several occasions, I've also chosen to leave them in the car, because that's the safest place for them.

You misunderstand me. What I meant is that it's a minor inconvenience to people who choose not to leave their kids in the car. In your case, you've made the decision that it's NOT worth the trouble of taking the kids. That's where the non-judgment comes in. I don't judge you for thinking it's a major inconvenience. You don't judge me as "living in fear" because to me, it's a minor inconvenience.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *noobmom* 
You misunderstand me. What I meant is that it's a minor inconvenience to people who choose not to leave their kids in the car. In your case, you've made the decision that it's NOT worth the trouble of taking the kids. That's where the non-judgment comes in. I don't judge you for thinking it's a major inconvenience. You don't judge me as "living in fear" because to me, it's a minor inconvenience.

Ah - gotcha. I seriously hate all things carseat related.


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## moaningminny (Dec 31, 2007)

OP, I too would be livid.

I don't care if one is in a "good area" or not, things happen anywhere and everywhere. DH and I are both on the same wavelength when it comes to this - we'll suffer the minor inconvenience of removing our 2 children from the car.

There's really no excuse for it, and for me whether or not it's legal is a moot point.


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## mama1803 (Mar 4, 2008)

What I am curious to know is are there really that many people who actually think crime doesn't happen in small towns? Or that gated communities=safe?


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## Porcelain Interior (Feb 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama1803* 
What I am curious to know is are there really that many people who actually think crime doesn't happen in small towns? Or that gated communities=safe?

It happens, but the rate of it happening is much less because the population is less dense.

I however would never leave a child in a running car, nor go inside a business while my children were in the car- save my now 14 year old daughter who occasionally prefers to sit in the car and listen to music- with locked doors and if it's not hot out. Otherwise I make her come with or stay home.


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## cschick (Aug 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sehbub* 
It's a 2008 Chevy Uplander. It's definitely not my favorite feature. I don't leave the car running with the kids in it (except for the rare instance I have to run back in to the house) but I know what you mean about sitting and waiting, and if I were living in a different part of the country I'd likely reconsider. It automatically locks when you put it in gear and unlocks when you put it in park.

You may want to ask the dealership if that's something that can be changed/configured (if it bothers you).

We had two basically identical Jettas (a few model years apart, but both the Mark IV model) which had different "locking" rules. When we asked the dealership why, they told us that either could be changed to behave like the other.


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## mama1803 (Mar 4, 2008)

Porcelain Interior said:


> It happens, but the rate of it happening is much less because the population is less dense.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

No, small town living doesn't neccasarily equal safe. But I can tell you I have *NEVER* heard of a single car jacking in the entire 25 years that I've lived here, nor can I honestly remember the last time someones car got stolen period, let alone while it was randomly idling outside a gas station. I'm not saying it *can't* happen here, I'm just saying that to my knowledge it just hasn't.

And for the record, we don't lock our doors. Haven't in at least 3 years - I know that cause' thats the lenght of time we've lived here, and DH doesn't have a key to the house. I do, my dad does, but its one of those things that we just haven't gotten around to getting for him in the 3+ years we've lived here... And I almost never lock my car doors either - only if I'm like, in Columbus and have stuff in plain view that I'm worried someone might want to steal. But not typically. The way I figure that, if somebodies going to steal my car or radio or whatever... their going to do it. My doors being locked just means I also end up w/ a broken window.


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## lifeguard (May 12, 2008)

No small town doesn't equal no crime but it is greatly reduced. In our time they post in the paper each week all the crimes that the police dealt with the previous week & the list is pretty darn short & usually petty theft. So yeah, in THIS small town I feel safe. Maybe I would feel differently in a different town.


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## Kelly1101 (Oct 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Materfamilias* 
No to keys in the ignition and car running. I'm too paranoid for that. I have left kids in a locked car to go into a gas station to pay for fuel but ONLY if I can see 'em.

This.

I'd be more afraid of a random person rolling up and shooting my baby while we were crossing the parking lot, than someone breaking into my locked car and hotwiring it and driving off within about ten seconds (because that's all it would take for me to run out of the store).


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

mama1803 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Porcelain Interior*
> ...


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## pacificbliss (Jun 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Theoretica* 
Ok but if you're going to look at the potential for each situation to turn catastrophic in an effort to protect your children...

-What if you take your child in and a burglar robs the store RIGHT THEN, shooting you and your child?

-What if you are one of the thousands of people DAILY involved in fatal care accidents and your child is killed simply by being in your vehicle?

-What if you are carjacked?

-What if...what if....

We can't live our lives on what if. Statistically speaking your child is in more danger taking a bath than being in the OP's DH's situation.

Go easy there I think I was pretty clear that i am well aware this is my issue.


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## CliffsideMama (Jan 20, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DivineMrsM* 
yep, i do it all the time. my 2.5 yo is not strong enough to get himself out of his seat yet. and i lock the doors so no one will steal our van. i often had to drive to even get the kid to sleep to begin with. no way was i going to wake him up for a 2 minute pick up.

as far as i know, it's not illegal here (ontario)

In Ontario, it is illegal to leave any child under age 10 alone AT ANY TIME. I know this from a child abuse workshop given by the city of Toronto.

you never know what could happen... locked doors are not a serious deterrant for serious theives/kidnappers, etc.


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## Kivgaen (Dec 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *azmomtoone* 
Seriously? You don't worry about someone grabbing the kids, or seeing them and calling the police (or maybe someone who is a police officer being there seeing them?)
Recently?

I've done it before, with both kids in the car. To do the exact same thing, grab a pizza.

It was a summer day, if I recall, but not hot at all... Like 20 degrees celcius, and not even sunny. A woman came by and noticed the kids in the car (I was watching them from the pizza place while I was waiting.) I noticed her checking them out and she was obviously concerned about them being in the "hot" car. (Windows were open, even though it wasn't necessary).

I went out and spoke to her for a minute. She was going all mental on me, saying exactly the same stuff. And I'm like "Look, it's not like I left them unsupervised -- I'm here, aren't I? The car wasn't even the slightest bit hot when I came back with the pizza.

Some people just over-react over everything. I told her to mind her own business and leave me to mine.


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## confustication (Mar 18, 2006)

It's 40 below zero with a windchill here. If I had a kid with me and needed to stop for anything for a moment, I'd certainly leave them in the car. There's absolutely no reason to expose tiny lungs to that kind of cold! In situations like that, I usually have all three with me, and I leave them all in the car to run in quickly- I can still see the vehicle and I leave my cell phone with my oldest.


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## ~Charlie's~Angel~ (Mar 17, 2008)

I wouldn't do it, and I don't care if I am worrying to much. The only time my kids EVER get left in the car while I am not in it is if I have to run back in the house to get something, OR when we get home, I get out, go unlock the house door, because its FAAARREEEZZZING here right now, and usually snowing. I want to get them in the house as quickly as possible. OH, and if I am PUMPING gas. Because I am stannding right there and I am paying at the pump. The keys NEVER EVER EVER get left in the ignition. if it is running (Which it does right now because its -40 with the windchill) it is because I used my auto start, which turns off the minute you touch anything if the key is not in the ignition.

You can say Im living in fear, I don't care. And if my husband did what the OP's did, I would be absolutly LIVID, and it would be a long time before I would ALLOW him to take the kids anywhere without me. (He barely does that now as it is)


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## mandib50 (Oct 26, 2004)

i've left my children also in a vehicle - never running though because you cannot lock my car doors from the outside if the vehicle is running. i also live in a very very small town (2500) and with a very cold climate.

it IS a major inconvenience to haul 4 small children out of the vehicle when you're running in to pay for your gas and there is a ton of snow with a -45C windchill. by the time you get the kids out of the van and trudge into the store, i could have been paid for the gas about 3 times over. i don't know if many of you have been out in weather colder than -25C with windchills, but you have to make sure your kids have boots, hats, and toques on, so it is a big process getting little ones out of the vehicle making sure they are all bundled properly.

i did make sure though that i had a direct line of sight to my vehicle, and where i live, that also means you could be back at your vehicle in about 5 seconds maximum.
i wouldn't have left them in a large parking lot or where i wouldn't have been able to see them, or if i was going to be in a place for more than a few minutes.

i guess i don't just see it as a straight black and white issue - there are so many factors to be taken into account.


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cschick* 
See, THAT I'd consider pretty unsafe. I grew up in the city, and if you're in park and waiting (say, for someone to come out of an apartment) you keep your doors locked for safety reasons. What kind of car is this?

Ours will only lock with the locks on the door. You cannot lock the doors with the key fob. The drivers door has to be manually locked if the key is in ignition. My dh has locked the door and shut it a time or to.


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## mandib50 (Oct 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kelly1101* 
This.

I'd be more afraid of a random person rolling up and shooting my baby while we were crossing the parking lot, than someone breaking into my locked car and hotwiring it and driving off within about ten seconds (because that's all it would take for me to run out of the store).

for sure!
i remember the time i was in a shoe/clothing store with my 4 kids. my youngest at the time was probably about 1 1/2 years old, so he was toddling up and down the the aisle while we were trying on shoes with the other kids. all of a sudden i heard screaming and a kid was flying out the store shoplifting a shirt and he ran out the door and slammed the door open to the inside so hard it made a bang.

i can't tell you how grateful i was that we had not been looking at clothes at the front of the store where my little one could have been in the way and have been bowled over by the shoplifter or smashed by the door.

i guess you just never know. you take calculated risks when it comes to making decisions for the kids, and i really doubt that any mother on MDC would knowingly put their child in harm's way.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

There are signs posted in parking lots here saying it's illegal to leave kids in a car unattended per city code. But I see it all the time.


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