# "Oh, you went natural?"



## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

So, I was getting my teeth cleaned the other day by a very pregnant dental hygienist. I'm moderately dental-phobic, and so I made a joke about being able to have a baby without pain medication but not being able to stand getting my teeth cleaned. She said, "Oh, you went natural?"

There's something about this phraseology--"went natural"--that rubs me the wrong way, and I can't figure out what it is. Is it the casualness of it--i.e., as though it's super easy to just decide to "go natural" in our birth culture? (I had an out-of-hospital birth, so it was "easy"--in the sense that I didn't have to fight off epidurals--but know very few moms who ended up with a completely intervention-free hospital birth.)

I'm not sure. Am I just oversensitive and crazy? Was I just put off by the fact that she seemed shocked that I exclusively bf and don't supplement?


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

"went natural" makes it sound like you did it as a fad. "Oh you went vegetarian for a few years?"


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

Heh, it sounds like a hairstyle!

I like it that she was so judgement-free about it, though. Like, "Oh, that's cool" and not "Oh, I could never do that."


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## St. Margaret (May 19, 2006)

Yeah, I think this bothers me for the same reason, like it's some flip decison or trend. Also, no one says, "Oh, you went high-tech, high-intervention?" LOL. Maybe I'll tell people I'm going to be actively birthing my baby or something like that, to set a different tone.


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## MsElle07 (Jul 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *St. Margaret* 
Yeah, I think this bothers me for the same reason, like it's some flip decison or trend. Also, no one says, "Oh, you went high-tech, high-intervention?"


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *St. Margaret* 
Also, no one says, "Oh, you went high-tech, high-intervention?"









: Now I'm going to be watching for chances to ask that.


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## WonderWild (May 13, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *St. Margaret* 
"Oh, you went high-tech, high-intervention?"

That's a good one!









I guess it's "natural" as opposed to the "un-natural" way of hospitalized births?


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## St. Margaret (May 19, 2006)

Hee







The worst is when someone says they are going natural too, and by that they mean vaginal


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *St. Margaret* 
"Oh, you went high-tech, high-intervention?"









That's a good one!


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## kalisis (Jan 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *St. Margaret* 
Hee







The worst is when someone says they are going natural too, and by that they mean vaginal 

My mw just told me a story yesterday about how she had to explain that in her terms and that of her OB's office (she works p/t at an OB office who actually trained under her years ago and has one of the lowest csection rates in the area) having a vaginal birth with an epidural isn't 'natural'. She said the client was shocked.

Rubs me the wrong way too tho - guess maybe cause like a pp said, makes it sound like a fad or something and not a choice that I had to fight for and put up with all kinds of crap for.


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## CathToria (Sep 6, 2003)

Yes, I also don't like the term. It would be more appropriate if people said "so you chose to avoid drugs". I guess the part that bothers me is teh fact that for many of us, having an unmedicated birth is a choice, and that seems to be left out if you just "go natural"....


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## AnnesMoM (Jun 19, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *St. Margaret* 
Hee







The worst is when someone says they are going natural too, and by that they mean vaginal 

This REALLY rubs me the wrong way. It's like going "natural" is "cool" now and so people want to be able to say that. It really takes away from people who actually have a REAL natural birth since half the people these days are thinking you just mean a vaginal birth.


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

I thought people who say "natural" to mean "vaginal" just thought it was rude to say "vaginal." The ones I meet who do that seem to be the same people who in general won't say the names of sex organs.


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## stacyann21 (Oct 21, 2006)

It's even worse before you have the baby. I've had so many people tell me that I'll be "screaming for the epidural"


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## MommytoTwo (Jun 20, 2004)

Yeah that is annoying ... here is another. My friend, who had a scheduled c/s was HORRIFIED that I was in labor for 33 hours before ending up with a c-section. But the way she says it is this: "I cant believe they labored you for 33 hours" .... huh????


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## Herausgeber (Apr 29, 2006)

It's started to come up recently amongst some of my close friends, since I'm due in a few weeks. Some seem shocked that I "really" will go through with my plan to go to the birth center, not a hospital. Like, no, I was just joking before!

But I don't think they mean it judgmentally. It's just so unusual around here. Same with breastfeeding for more than a few weeks.


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## accountclosed3 (Jun 13, 2006)

for me, it amkes it sound like an oddity. birth is "naturally natural." we intervene for any number of reasons--but for the majority of people in our culture it's for absolutely innane reasons. For some of the people, it's for absolutely the right reasons (life-saving techniques, etc).


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

I just don't like how it's said as an oddity. Rather than saying to women, "Oh, you had drugs?" they just assume you did, and only comment when you didn't.

Of course, that makes sense... I read a recent statistic that 90-something percent of women giving birth last year had an epidural, a number that spun my head....

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against it in all cases, but I certainly am against ROUTINE use of epidurals. I figure only 5-10% of women should be getting one. But hey, it's not my place to decide for other women.


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## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Herausgeber* 
It's started to come up recently amongst some of my close friends, since I'm due in a few weeks. Some seem shocked that I "really" will go through with my plan to go to the birth center, not a hospital. Like, no, I was just joking before!


Quote:


Originally Posted by *stacyann21* 
It's even worse before you have the baby. I've had so many people tell me that I'll be "screaming for the epidural"









Yes, after my birth, my SIL said to me, "I thought for sure you were going to get the drugs." Erm, thanks. My ILs also kept asking, "But what if you WANT pain medication." And I kept saying, "Well, that's we're not going to the hospital. When I'm in labor, I probably will think I want pain medication--so I'm taking the option away." They REALLY didn't get that.









You know what, stacyann? I screamed my head off in labor...it didn't mean I needed drugs. I'm just a screamer, apparently.


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## sparkprincess (Sep 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *St. Margaret* 
Hee







The worst is when someone says they are going natural too, and by that they mean vaginal 

UGH. That annoys me to no end! I have a friend who always says that - I think because she can't bear to say the word "vaginal".


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## ~Mamaterra~ (Jul 5, 2006)

My mom told me as I grew up that she had "natural childbirth" for all of us. It wasn't until I was pg with my first that she thought natural=vaginal, and not without drugs/intervention.

BTW, when I told her that I was birthing at home "naturally", she said "Oh Rosemary, why would you do you feel like you have to punish yourself like that!!!"


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## katja (Apr 13, 2004)

I may be the only one who likes when people say "went natural." It sounds so laid back. "Chose to avoid an epidural" is pretty cumbersome.


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## MsElle07 (Jul 14, 2006)

I use the term "unmedicated" to refer to my drug free vaginal birth, since the current climate is to use the word natural in place of vaginal.


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## CableGirl (Oct 18, 2006)

I have to agree with the PP who said

Quote:

It's even worse before you have the baby. I've had so many people tell me that I'll be "screaming for the epidural"
I am birthign in a birth center specifically because I don't want unnecessary medical intervention, I don't want people pushing an epi on me, I don't want anyone telling me that I "need" to be induced. But, man am I sick of people assuming that I won't be able to take it. I mean, really, thanks for the vote of confidence folks!







:

It's funny I frequently hear people who go the hospitalization, induction, epi route complain about natural birthing mothers as being so militant and judgemental.. but seriously I find the exact opposite is true. Nearly everyone i know tries to talk me out of my birth choice. Get your freaking nose out of my uterus!!! It's my choice people. And I choose to let my body do what it was designed to do, thank you very much.


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## St. Margaret (May 19, 2006)

Oh man, this is where I am right now, CableGirl. First time mom, and I am so freaked that people will just pelt me with doubting statements. I want to tell them my mother birthed me naturally, I'm sure I can do it as well! It's hard b/c they act like they have all the authority, but did they really prepare for birth? Did they just lay down and get hooked up? What do they really know? (speaking of people who say these kinds of things only). I think I might reply, if someone spouts this at me, well, I've raised children all day long (living/working in our family day care) and let me just assure YOU my dea that you're sure to fail miserably at that. What the heck? Why is it okay to say to someone they will fail?


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## JeDeeLenae (Feb 5, 2006)

I had a 1/4 shot of Nubain during labor, and PROM, but for the most part, consider my son's birth to be a natural birth. It wasn't intervention free, unfortunately, but it was closer to natural than I'd ever known of with people around me. Saying "went natural" I think is just for a lack of better words. Rather than some of the alternatives which do seem to be a bit... cumbersome.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *St. Margaret* 
Oh man, this is where I am right now, CableGirl. First time mom, and I am so freaked that people will just pelt me with doubting statements. I want to tell them my mother birthed me naturally, I'm sure I can do it as well! It's hard b/c they act like they have all the authority, but did they really prepare for birth? Did they just lay down and get hooked up? What do they really know? (speaking of people who say these kinds of things only). I think I might reply, if someone spouts this at me, well, I've raised children all day long (living/working in our family day care) and let me just assure YOU my dea that you're sure to fail miserably at that. What the heck? Why is it okay to say to someone they will fail?

Honestly, when the time comes I fully intend to invent an older sibling for using with strangers "well, I had no problems with my son." Even if I've already babbled on about this being my first baby.


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## CableGirl (Oct 18, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *St. Margaret* 
It's hard b/c they act like they have all the authority, but did they really prepare for birth? Did they just lay down and get hooked up? What do they really know?

I so hear you on that! I have a friend who has been planning fro mth every start to have an epi and to "feel nothing" for the birth. She was just explaining to me how silly I was for taking hypnobirthing classes to prepare. "Sorry, *you* may not have to prepare since your such a chicken shit that you're not even willing to give it a try, I, however, do need to prepare."

BTW, no offense intended to anyone here who is pro-epi... I just was so sick of this particular person making comments and I felt like her reasons were a total wimp cop out.


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## JeDeeLenae (Feb 5, 2006)

I think I was more bothered by the discouraging remarks from others than I am by the "went natural/going natural" statements.

Mom: "Don't do that to yourself, honey."
DH: "I don't think you're going to be able to do it."
Dad: "Remember when Jordan was born?"

blah blah blah.... I would have LOVED someone to say, "You're going natural??" regardless of the look of horror or shock, rather than some of the comments from my "supportive" network.


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## Quagmire (Sep 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NYCVeg* 
I screamed my head off in labor...it didn't mean I needed drugs. I'm just a screamer, apparently.









Hah! Me too. My DH was so scared for me during this last birth... I guess I was making some pretty unholy sounds. But not once did it occur to me to want drugs.


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## lovencloth (Nov 29, 2005)

I just can't stand the look of confusion and almost disdain when you say you had a med free birth and they ask "why would you do that?"







:


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## mamaverdi (Apr 5, 2005)

Have been known to say, No, I went normal.









Man, that irks people.


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## CableGirl (Oct 18, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lovencloth* 
I just can't stand the look of confusion and almost disdain when you say you had a med free birth and they ask "why would you do that?"







:

I totally agree...like you're offering your body up for somescientific experiments. Then if you actuallly do bother (which Ihave given up doing) to explain why you would not want various drugs pumped into your systemand be strapped to a torture device then you get alled militant.







how annoying is that!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaverdi* 
Have been known to say, No, I went normal.









Man, that irks people.

I LOVE this! I'll have to keep that line in mind.


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## St. Margaret (May 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaverdi* 
Have been known to say, No, I went normal.









Man, that irks people.

Oh, I'm gonna steal that!

ETA: Oh yeah, I'm predicting I will be screaming... BFW says if you tend to be vocal you'll probably be very vocal in birth... well, I tend to be very effusive and yell and scream (in good ways, like to get through pain when I drop something on my foot,etc) so watch out! lol


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## RedPony (May 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NYCVeg* 
My ILs also kept asking, "But what if you WANT pain medication." And I kept saying, "Well, that's we're not going to the hospital. When I'm in labor, I probably will think I want pain medication--so I'm taking the option away." They REALLY didn't get that.









My MIL and my mom both said the same thing. I guess they just couldn't imagine choosing to refuse pain meds. Oh well!


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## njbeachgirl (Oct 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CableGirl* 

It's funny I frequently hear people who go the hospitalization, induction, epi route complain about natural birthing mothers as being so militant and judgemental.. but seriously I find the exact opposite is true. Nearly everyone i know tries to talk me out of my birth choice. Get your freaking nose out of my uterus!!! It's my choice people. And I choose to let my body do what it was designed to do, thank you very much.

















:


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## autumn_faune (Jun 15, 2005)

I love when I get that comment. being the UCer at heart that I am, it plays out like this:

cue wicked grin: oh, more natural than you would ever believe!


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## accountclosed3 (Jun 13, 2006)

when i told an acquaintance of my parents that i was planning a natural birth (i don't know how we got ont he subject because i'm ont even pregnant) and that i was doing homebirth (UC--but i didn't mention that cuz, well, anway ...) they said the same thing to me.

and my dad said "she doesn't take advil or medication at any time. at her last dentist visit to have some work done, the dentist recommended putting her under (to sleep) while he worked (wisdom teeth removed). She refused and went with only local anesthesia and not the needled novacaine either. Just the topical. So, she won't be screaming for anything or anyone. She's too stubborn."


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## Belle (Feb 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaverdi* 
Have been known to say, No, I went normal.









Man, that irks people.









I love it! I'll have to steal that too.


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## amnda527 (Aug 6, 2006)

Why do people expect every laboring woman to get an epi? I mean, your having a BABY, It's not like you are about to get your leg chopped off!


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## accountclosed3 (Jun 13, 2006)

when i told people that i want a natural (hehe--normal!) UC homebirth, they bring up the screaming for medication and i say "no, i'll be galdr chanting for meditation"

because, that's so.







my DH and i are learning galdr chanting for birthing and plan on utilizing a meditation spiral (labyrinth) for labor walking. it helps put one in a focused state and helps to condition the body-mind throuhgout the birth process.

galdr chanting is very loud and has been compared to the 'incessent caw-ing of crows.' hehe. norse people!


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zoebird* 
my DH and i are learning galdr chanting for birthing and plan on utilizing a meditation spiral (labyrinth) for labor walking.

How interesting, I happen to have learned harmonic singing and have found it to be helpful in meditation and was thinking it would be useful in labor as well.


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NYCVeg* 
I made a joke about being able to have a baby without pain medication but not being able to stand getting my teeth cleaned.

OT but my dentist said it is very common to feel that way . . .she says she has many patients say that childbirth w/o meds was fine but NOT dental work!

I love the "normal" comment! I'm gonna use that (but thankfully, I have full family support about that!).


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## Sonnenwende (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amnda527* 
Why do people expect every laboring woman to get an epi? I mean, your having a BABY, It's not like you are about to get your leg chopped off!

Well, having gone through it without the benefit of pain meds, I may have wondered if that wasn't the better alternative at the time.

I have a live and let live attitude about all of this. If you don't want pain meds, knock yourself out. If you want them, knock yourself out. It is none of my business. I would say for myself, I would never want to do it without pain meds again, but that is just a judgement for myself, not for others. Other people have other births, other tolerances for pain. I can't make anykind of assessment on what they should do or what I think they will do just based on my own experience. Birth is far, far, too individual to allow for blanket statements and judgements.


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## mntnmom (Sep 21, 2006)

I think a lot of women are casual about it because they don't realize it's a LOT of work. I've seen women on labor shows just "pop" the baby out because they're highly medicated.
With my DS the OB who delivered him kept forgetting I didn't have an epidural because I was calm and focused. I didn't do 2 yrs of yoga and meditation for nothing da*#it!! If you have a birth like that you're just "lucky". (OK, admittedly, I've never had complications, so I'm lucky on that front).


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mntnmom* 
I think a lot of women are casual about it because they don't realize it's a LOT of work. I've seen women on labor shows just "pop" the baby out because they're highly medicated.

I dunno. I feel like I had to work to a certain extent, but not too hard until that last hour with both labors. I used to feel like I was all that until I realized I didn't have to deal with what many other women go through-- back labor, really long labors, etc. Now with my 3rd I am a bit nervous, esp. since I have an anterior placenta this time . . .maybe this time I will actually have to work REALLY hard and will find out I don't know what I am doing.


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## St. Margaret (May 19, 2006)

I think perhaps she meant work ahead of time? I certainly feel this is true, as I'm getting ready to start preparing, and I'm learning it'll take a good chunk of time every day! But I'm willing to invest it... other ladies on the mainstream birth board I go sow seeds of crunchiness at look at me like I'm loco _actually preparing for birth_!


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## Full Heart (Apr 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *St. Margaret* 
I think perhaps she meant work ahead of time? I certainly feel this is true, as I'm getting ready to start preparing, and I'm learning it'll take a good chunk of time every day! But I'm willing to invest it... other ladies on the mainstream birth board I go sow seeds of crunchiness at look at me like I'm loco _actually preparing for birth_!

This is certainly true. Reading books, going to classes, talking to other mommas, actually educating ourselves. That takes time and effort. Instead of just sitting around and letting someone decide for you.

Of course I have had labors that were alot of work too. Felt like I was doing heavy lifting for hours







, but then other labors were super easy with no work on my part.

With precentage of births that are medicated being as high as it is I think when you hear someone say, "Oh you went natural." They are shocked because they probably haven't known anyone else who has. I was meaning to make a poll about this cause recently I have talked to 5 different women in different parts of the country and all of them said the same thing- when they gave birth naturally all the nurses commented how they wished they could have been there because they have never seen a natural birth before. That just floors me. Someone who watches babies emerge everyday hasn't seen a natural birth?! So honestly I think its shock more than anything, that they actually ran into someone who went natural.


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## katarn (Apr 23, 2005)

stacyann21: I LOVE your siggy!!!

"birth is not an emergency, just an emergence"


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## St. Margaret (May 19, 2006)

I read somewhere in the last year the statistic of 20% of women have natural births. It sounded low enough that I read it as truly natural births... but it would be interesting to find out more about this. Assuming all goes well at my birth, I'll probably sing the praises of natural birth and try to make it more known in my circles


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## Emilie (Dec 23, 2003)

I had a lady tell me she birthed natural. Come to find out- natural means vaginal these days- she had an epidural and the works- but birthed naturally!


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## grumpybear (Oct 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MsElle07* 
I use the term "unmedicated" to refer to my drug free vaginal birth, since the current climate is to use the word natural in place of vaginal.









I can't say I was completely unmedicated because I had to get induced with Pitocin (water broke, no labor in 24hrs, yadda yadda yadda...) and opted for a penicillin drip (GBS+). Didn't have any pain relief though. So did I just go semi-natural?


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## mntnmom (Sep 21, 2006)

Yes, I meant before hand...sorry. I imagine a well prepared woman who for some reason then got an epi, might be in the best position of all of us!








I think women who aren't prepared before hand, can't imagine having a natural birth, because they get hit unaware with labor, and then the meds kick in!! I'm sure it's a radical relieving difference. I didn't mean to imply there isn't work to labor one way or the other, But it looks a lot easier *after* the epi!


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## ananas (Jun 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stacyann21* 
It's even worse before you have the baby. I've had so many people tell me that I'll be "screaming for the epidural"









I agree- I'm not even planning on having children for a few years, and already people tell me that I'll be the woman begging for the epi.


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## FreeThinkinMama (Aug 3, 2004)

I've said the same thing, usually with a look of shock and respect on my face. Wow, you went natural? "went" as in made the choice. I understand the reasons for going natural and know they have nothing to do with trendiness. I planned on doing it myself until I was induced. By 3 cm I was begging for an epi. At that point I figured if this is what labor feels like now(a knife twisting me in the back, stomach and between my legs), imagine when the baby comes out. For *me* personally I really underestimated the pain of childbirth and my tolerance level for it.

Quote:

I have a live and let live attitude about all of this. If you don't want pain meds, knock yourself out. If you want them, knock yourself out. It is none of my business. I would say for myself, I would never want to do it without pain meds again, but that is just a judgement for myself, not for others. Other people have other births, other tolerances for pain. I can't make anykind of assessment on what they should do or what I think they will do just based on my own experience. Birth is far, far, too individual to allow for blanket statements and judgements.
I agree.


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

I think it's just because c/s are so common now that some people really don't realize moms are still giving birth... vaginally (omg, there's that word).

I had two coworkers close to my age (I was 20 then) ask me about my c/s when I returned to work p/t after dd1 was born. I proudly told them I gave birth vaginally.







They just assumed that I had surgical birth- granted one of them was born via c/s as well as all her siblings because back then was the once a cesarean, always...

I consider:

natural to be as intervention-free/med-free as possible. Sometimes though, interventions help a mom achieve vaginal birth... and I would choose those interventions (at the hands of the right care provider) over a c/s unless it's necessary to save baby's life.

medicated/vaginal to be a birth that includes meds. Like my first birth- I had AROM, Nubain and episiotomy. I don't consider that natural... it sure as heck didn't feel natural.


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *St. Margaret* 
I read somewhere in the last year the statistic of 20% of women have natural births. It sounded low enough that I read it as truly natural births... but it would be interesting to find out more about this. Assuming all goes well at my birth, I'll probably sing the praises of natural birth and try to make it more known in my circles









I read somewhere that 99% of births in America last year or the year before were medicated.

But that sounded too high, so I doubted the stat was true...

I least I HOPE NOT!!!!


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FreeThinkinMama* 
I've said the same thing, usually with a look of shock and respect on my face. Wow, you went natural? "went" as in made the choice. I understand the reasons for going natural and know they have nothing to do with trendiness. I planned on doing it myself until I was induced. By 3 cm I was begging for an epi. At that point I figured if this is what labor feels like now(a knife twisting me in the back, stomach and between my legs), imagine when the baby comes out. For *me* personally I really underestimated the pain of childbirth and my tolerance level for it.

Except that by all accounts going entirely natural is infinitely easier than having an induced labor pain-med free. From descriptions of induced labors I'm impressed by anyone who can even try going through them with out meds.


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## njbeachgirl (Oct 8, 2006)

One of my best friends (a guy) who I have known since childhood and can talk about ANYTHING with, asked me if I was going to deliver "naturally or have a c-section?" People just hate to say the dreaded V-Word....


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## rachelagain (Jun 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laohaire* 
I read somewhere that 99% of births in America last year or the year before were medicated.

But that sounded too high, so I doubted the stat was true...

I least I HOPE NOT!!!!









The epi rate here is 80%-- that is not counting the other drugs. One gal I know said she delivered w/o drugs and the nurses said she was only the second person they had seen do that.
So-- I would say 99% is probably about right.


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *grumpybear* 
I can't say I was completely unmedicated because I had to get induced with Pitocin (water broke, no labor in 24hrs, yadda yadda yadda...) and opted for a penicillin drip (GBS+). Didn't have any pain relief though. So did I just go semi-natural?









Nope, you went natural in my book!


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## erikandgregsmom (Dec 13, 2002)

I had a co-worker who, reporting on another co-worker's birth over the weekend said "yeah, she went natural - well, natural with an epidural". So I guess "natural" to her means the baby came out of the vagina - anything and almost everything could happen in between.


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## MotherWhimsey (Mar 21, 2005)

When I told people I wasn't going to use drugs during my first birth, they all gave me the "you'll never be able to do it" crap too. Even my dr said I probably wouldn't be able to do it. Well luckily for me, I am really stubborn, and probably would have "gone natural" just to spite everyone. I didn't have any problems at all, and refused all interventions and dd was born into the bed. This time I'm having a homebirth, and surprisingly all the women that told me I'd never be able to do it before, just think it's awesome that I'm having a homebirth. I haven't once gotten the "you'll be screaming for drugs" line this time.


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