# On dressing girls



## momea (Nov 22, 2001)

I'm just wondering if I'm the only one who is weirded out by the way little girls (tots and preschool) are often dressed, drawn/animated and just generally represented.

For instance - my mil gave us a toddler outfit that has Minnie Mouse on the front of it. Minnie kind of has her back turned toward whoever is looking at her, is wearing high heels, and has her ass completely hanging out! Maybe I just have a dirty mind or something but it looks like she's taunting the viewer with her bum - she's like sticking it out in the air with this backward glance, full lashed look over the shoulder thing going on! I know Minnie is not a tot (she's a mouse) - but I seem to see this strange thing of having little girls bottoms showing, esp. in old fashioned artwork, like the little big book for moms, often. Like the coy looks and poses that are drawn onto the faces of little girls wearing those half dress things. Is it all just for the love of chubby legs?

And my mil also gave us an outfit that consisted of shirt that was a triangle in front and tied with a string in the back (backless) with little shorts with slits up the sides - guess what the label was - Britney Spears!!! (sp?). Okay - no way in H am I going to have my 2YO dressing like - I don't even know ... but now I notice little tots in stuff like that - in the dead of winter!!! When I go to target I can't even believe the toddler clothing I see and I'm thinking "people buy this and dress their little girls in this???"

what's with sexualizing little girls? It seems totally accepted to me and people, mothers even!!!!, seem to think it's CUTE!

Am I a prude or strange (I know I am really really exhausted so this post could be completely incomprehensible)? Tell me!


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## Pom (Nov 20, 2001)

Momea - I'm there with you, sister. Don't even get me started! My dh and I keep having to hear about his cousin's little girl's dance recital -- how cute it was -- and essentially, it was a bunch of 4 yr old's doing a strip tease to itty bitty yellow polka dot bikini! Makes us cringe. We really try to dress our dd kinda sporty and "ready for anything". I've got nothing against the occaissional sparkle or whatnot, and I've got no problems with nudity in general, but the sexualization - the rush to see them grow up, just HORRIFIES me. I went into the Children's place the other day and was baffled. Everything looked completely cheap and slutty. Weird. Why?


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## LaLaLuna (Jun 23, 2002)

You're certainly not the only one to take issue with little girl "fashion". I don't have a daughter but indulge my desire to buy cute and sparkly with my best friends' daughter (ok- I buy cute and sparkly for my boys too; just not dresses) and it just amazes me how trashy some of the clothes for little ones look. I've seen dresses cut to make the girls look curvy, shoes with high clunky heels that distort the way they stand, peek-a-boo shirts. It's horrible! I am just flabbergasted that mainstream people just suck this stuff up and don't even question the messages they're giving their kids!


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

You are so not alone. My mother and I were just shocked at the "hoochie mama" clothing out there for little girls. She took me to Winners (the Canadian version of TJMaxx) it was just awful. Black satin mini skirts for an 18 month old??? Good god.

It's not even just the blatant sexualization of little girls - it's just downright BAD TASTE. Where are the fashion police when you need them??


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## ameliabedelia (Sep 24, 2002)

Oh I totally agree. The clothes are horrible.

The worst thing is, I think the whole trend to sexualize little girls contributes to the horrible child abuse and child pornography which is prevelant in our culture.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I've noticed this too - and it just gets worse as the girls get older. I was trying to find something for my 5-year-old niece at Christmas, she is now wearing a size 7 which takes her out of the "little girl" sizes and into the "big girl" sizes. I could not find a SINGLE thing that I found appropriate for a little girl. It was all skanky nasty Britney stuff. I was truly shocked at how bad it was. The best of the worst were some low-cut hip hugger jeans with leather straps lacing them up the front. That was the least sexual I could find, and I decided even that was too much for a 5-y-o.

I'm glad my babe is still in baby clothes. She's just stepped into 18 month size. I thought I had more time before I'd have these problems, but if the 2T stuff is already getting bad, then I'm closer than I thought.


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## Mommiska (Jan 3, 2002)

I totally agree as well. I think the sexualization of young girls is very, very dangerous. I read an article in the newspaper (either the ******* Herald or Sunday Times - can't remember which) the other day that said that it's that kind of thing that can lead pedophiles to justify themselves by saying, 'See - these little girls would be up for the sex, if all these other repressed adults wouldn't get in the way'.

Not only is it sad, I think it's very dangerous.
Carolyn


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## melamama (Oct 8, 2002)

I think it's stunning how different boys and girls clothes are cut-specifically I'm talking about toddler's clothes. In my experience the boys and girls in my dd's playgroup are roughly the same size, but when I look in the clothing depts pants and shirts are cut very differently already. Simple jeans are wide and bulky for boys, but slim cut for girls-and this is 3T.

I regularly will get clothes for dd that I found in the boy's dept-jeans and turtlenecks. -then we add sparkly socks or sweaters-what is it about those sparkles?

In addition to the clothes, I also noticed that after I got dd's hair cut in a very cute bob, we got way fewer comments on her attractiveness from relatives and total strangers, as in "you're such a pretty girl" -like a 3 year old needs to hear that.


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## TrinitysMama (Mar 13, 2002)

I am dreading the day that Lily is out of baby clothes.







I just don't understand how people can think that its ok to dress their little girls like that. There is plenty of time for that when they are teens. Let them be little girls!

During Xmas, I went with my mom to Limited Too. I thought they were supposed to be little girl clothes - not women's clothes scaled down to their size. They had thongs and skimpy little panties for little girls. They also had padded push-up bras - in black even!

It is so scary! If its this bad, how bad will it be in about 5 years when Lily is into those sizes.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

I worked in a children's clothing store for over 2 years. Aside from the fact that the girl's clothing is "sexy" and innapropriate, it is all cut very narrow. Only skinny little girl's could even wear the stuff. AT LEAST once a day we'd have some 8 or 9 year old little girl in tears because nothing fit her properly and she felt she must be "too fat."







It was agonizing.

I regularly sent notes to corporate complaining about the issue. And I regularly stocked every style of boy's jeans and a handful of boy's tops in the big girl's department of my store.


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## Hannah's Mom (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:

They had thongs and skimpy little panties for little girls.










I have a 6-month-old dd, so I really haven't shopped at places for older kids. I can't believe anyone would buy this stuff for a little girl. I was saying to my (male) boss who has 4 daughters that I really hope this "britney" trend is over by the time dd is old enough to care about her clothes. He really encouraged me by telling me that his 2 teenaged (ages 13 and 16) daughters have no interest in that style (I've seen them, it's true) bc he has always told them it's tacky and inappropriate and encouraged them to pursue their talents such as music and schoolwork so they have an identity outside looks. OT - He is very involved in his girls' lives and I think that's very important. Having parents, especially a dad, who shows girls they are valued for WHO they are, not how they look, can go a long way.

edited to add: I have also noticed how even very little kids' clothes are cut differently. At Old Navy, the baby boys' jeans are loose and comfortable and usually have the snaps for easy access to diapers, while the baby girls' jeans are slim fitting and flared with, IMO, too low a rise for diapers and no snaps, so you have to pull those narrow little pants on and off for each diaper change. dd got a pair from someone for christmas and we can't put them on her at home bc they are so close fitting that they really hamper her ability to wiggle around on the floor, rolling over, playing with her feet and attempting to learn how to crawl.


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## Faith (Nov 14, 2002)

I agree completely!!

I have one neice who is six months older than my dd. At first, I thought I was going to be so happy to get the hand-me-downs! But as it turned out, I couldn't even believe the things I saw when I was sorting through it! For babies and toddlers! The whole mini-skirt, sexy look over and over.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

We can only shop at second hand stores and in the boys department if I want to find pants for dd (size 7) . She is roundish but certainly not fat. If we can find a pair of god forsaken flares to fit her waist the hang 6 inches below toes. whats up with that? And if that wasn't bad enough I can't find jeans for my babies that aren't flares







: BABIES!! And they look stupid on babies. When I was buying school clothes for dd I couldn't find a single thing for her. We would have paid any amount of money for a decent outfit (for her birthday we just wanted to buy her something pretty) We found next to nothing. The few stores that carried decent clothing for little girls were completely sold out in her size. They had smaller but nothing bigger. In the end we found something at Gap but even there the pickins were pretty slim and we had to go a size up to make it cover everything. at one place I actually found a see through black lace shirt in a size 4 (like, toddler size) ewww!!









Take heart though. There are s ome stores that are doing good. gymboree always has nice girlish stuff. They are increasing thier size range to go up to a size 8 so that is good and if you wait for a sale thier stuff is pretty reasonable. Hanna Anderson has an outlet so you can find that stuff reasonably too. And there is always the boys department.

And I just wanted to comment on the old style of short dresses. That was just a cute innocent baby thing. People probably wanting to show off thier cute diaper covers. If you notice in those pictures the little girls were always wearing some cute little lacy bloomers. Also diapers leaked alot then, I can imagine part of the plan was to keep the fancy dress dry


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## Marlena (Jul 19, 2002)

I've found that OshKosh B'gosh often has pretty reasonable clothes, at least for dd (who's wearing 2T, almost in 3T). If you shop on-line, they've a ton of "sales rack' items! www.oshkoshbgosh.com (No, I don't work for them, or know anyone who works for them, in case anyone's wondering!). I agree - it's horrifying what's being sold for little girls to wear. Ugh!


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## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

i totally agree! i usually shop consignment or the boys dept for dd (almost 2). i'm a tomboy at heart myself, plus my teenage years (if i had worn cr*p like that) are far far far behind me , so i see *no* appeal in that "sexy" stuff. i just want plain old cotton (what's with the lycra to make things stretchy?) togs for my tot. got some nice hanna shortalls at the cosignment store and i'll pick and choose boy clothes here and there, too.


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## MysticHealerMom (Oct 7, 2002)

I'm glad to see this confirmed - I haven't purchased any small kids clothes, but I've walked by the girls section a few times and the things that caught up my eye - ick. Not to mention uncomfortable. I thought that I hadn't actually seen anyone really dressing their kids in that stuff, but I suppose they do. And I was thinking I was being a prude or having some sort of psychological block about small kids clothes or something


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## khrisday (Mar 18, 2002)

We have so many clothing issues at our house, it'a amazing that we can find thinggs for my dd to wear. (ds I don't have as much problems with. I don't like stuff with characters on it, it has to be cotton because she has eczema, we won't do the outfits that look like they are for adults, we try to avoid the all pink/purple stuff, she has a long waist and short legs so we CAN NOT do flares, and she will only wear pants that have elastic ALL the way around the waist- no turtlenecks and nothing tight, and she's a pretty big girl around for her height. Plus we have a really tight budget.
My solution has been thrift stores. It fits in my budget, is better for the environment, and sends a message to the manufacturers.
A child needs clothes that they can play in.


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## glh (Nov 19, 2001)

The best girl clothes I've seen are in Land's End and Hanna Anderson catalogs. Alas, they are a little too pricey for us. I buy a lot of Oshkosh, Gymboree and Gap if I can find them at the second hand stores in good shape. I went to The Children's Place last fall and found great clothes for my 6 year old son at reasonable prices, but the little girl's clothes (for my 2 yr old) were HORRIBLE. All this ugly fake fur stuff on them-I didn't buy anything for her there. I'm sorry but it looked like stuff a hooker would wear, for TODDLERS, I just couldn't get over it. I also find some decent sweatpants and shirts at Old Navy. I dread trying to find decent stuff when she is older. I also refuse to dress her in clothes with Disney, Sesame Street or any other characters on them.


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Personally I'm glad Old Navy, etc. make slim fitting jeans. Dd1 is 8.5, and only 46 lbs, so skinny. They are about the only jeans that fit her properly.

I've also had reasonable luck at The Children's Place, but I only picked up tops there, on sale. However, in general, she dresses pretty conservatively - jeans and tees, and nothing with logos, brand names or stupid sayings.

Dd2 is mainly in handmedowns, so I haven't had much of an issue with her yet!


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## Hannah's Mom (Jan 5, 2003)

Irishmommy - I agree that it's good that some places have slim fitting jeans for little girls. My problem is with Old Navy's baby clothes. The jeans and some other pants for baby girls have too low of a rise and are too slim fitting to go over diapers, especially cloth diapers but even disposables too, and still leave enough room for the baby to move around in. Of course my little BF baby is a chubby little dumpling, so that might be part of the problem!


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Hannah's Mom, to be perfectly honest, I've never even looked at the jeans in the Old Navy baby dept., but I can imagine!! When dd1 was little, I don't remember that kind of stuff being so readily available.

We were in church this evening, and I saw a friend of dd's wearing sweats, with PRINCESS written across the butt. This kid is 8 years old. I don't think so!!!


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## chellemarie (Jan 17, 2003)

My dd is five and has been a twirly-girly girl since...well, conception. She's starting to equate "pretty" with "barely dressed". I explain to her often that it's not okay to show your tummy and that you look just as beautiful in your jeans or jammies as you do in your frilly dress. It's a constant struggle.

I have the same problem with her and pants. She's still got her baby belly and pants that fit around are too long. GRR! Little girls aren't supposed to be sticks. (Neither are grown ones, for that matter.) Drives me to insanity.

My husband, being a bit out-of-touch with the pop music world was flipping through channels the other day with DD in the room. I heard the TV stop on "Beautiful" by Christina Aguilara. I hollered "TURN IT! NOW!" I nearly gave him a heart attack. (if you haven't seen that video, you're lucky. All I can say is...couldn't they find a fat girl with really horrible acne?! GOOD GRIEF!)

Back on topic...sort of...I was thinking the other day about how so many of us either can't bf in public or feel like we have to wear a tent so no one catches a flash of skin...yet there are teenaged girls running around in tiny tank tops with their bra straps showing or WORSE...with no bra and nipples clearly visible. That says far too much about the indecency of our society and should be impetus to bare your boobs to feed your babies. Show 'em what they're REALLY for.

Woo. I feel better now.


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## Sofiamomma (Jan 4, 2002)

Yep, ITA!! It got hard when she went from baby stuff to the 4-6x range, and now it's way worse in the 7-16 range. It's getting really frustrating, especially since dd admires my 9 y/o neice so much, who tends to dress a little inappropriately at times. My dad got dd a pair of jeans with stuff on them, a puffy pattern of some kind, and a long sleeved tee with "princess" on it. Dd said she really liked it cuz it was like her cousin's style. Uh oh! She's getting much more opinionated about what she wears and I am getting a headache when shopping with her. We stick mostly to second-hand, and the clearance racks at Old Navy (mostly for their overalls, plain tees, and tights), Gap (for jeans, khakis, and plain tees/turtlenecks), Gymboree, and Sears (they have a brand called Kid Cool that is not too bad, mostly cotton and funky, but still appropriate). I particulary like getting her pants at the Gap, because they have slims as well as regular and husky. She is very slim and long-legged and they fit her very well. I found a pair of khakis there the other day for $4! I also like Osh Kosh B'Gosh, Carter's and Health Tex, all of whom have bigger sizes.

P.S. I'm thrilled to hear Gymboree is increasing their size range! I was so bummed dd was growing out of their line. I couldn't find anything on the clearance rack in her size the last couple times I went in there.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Sofiamama - you can already get thier xxxl size on line. I can never find anything that fits madeline on the clearance rack there. My dad bought all the girls matching outfits from there a couple of weeks ago. Lily and Ava got the whole nine yards and all we could find for madeline was a shirt and leggings.

As for kids having opionions. I don't usually take dd shopping with me. And even when I do she gets what I say she gets (sometimes I will be lucky enough to find a few good outfits and she will get to choose one or two). I think at this point she is just so stinking happy when something comes through the house that is actually for her that is could be potatoe sacks and she would love it. I also think shoping at consighnment stores she is used to npot having a whole lot of choice (well, Madz, there is 1 shirt and two pairs of pants in yoiur size. Do you want them or do you want to freeze this winter?) She hates shopping which helps too







In the end mom's choice always wins. she might as well get used to it early.


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## mama2girls (Nov 19, 2002)

Flares for a 6 month old are ridiculous! I love dressing my girls, but it's a little outrageous! I seem to have the best luck in our Carter's outlet store. They seem to carry just normal clothes. It makes me crazy when I can't find plain turtlenecks (we live in Iowa, it's cold here) or blue jeans and khaki's without flowers embroidered on them. Unfortunately all the pants that my older dd has are flares, but she looks cute in them. (3T), but the baby--I just want her in baby clothes--not jeans, not flare knit pants, and certainly not in anything skimpy!! If I have my sil (mom of 3 boys) buy us one more "bikini"...


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## LunaMom (Aug 8, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by melamama_
*I think it's stunning how different boys and girls clothes are cut-specifically I'm talking about toddler's clothes. In my experience the boys and girls in my dd's playgroup are roughly the same size, but when I look in the clothing depts pants and shirts are cut very differently already.*
I hear ya, melamama! If I buy my four-year-old dd a t-shirt at Old Navy, it has to be a size SEVEN (she wears a size five normally) because the shirts are cut to fit so tight, but her boy firends who are the same size as her fit into the size fours and fives just fine.

The Children's Place keeps getting worse! Just about the only things I buy there now are leggings and plain t-shirts or turtlenecks. Other than the size issue, I usually find the Old Navy stuff to be fine - stylish in a cute way but not slutty. Dd has a bunch of flared sweatpants and hooded sweatshirts from there. I don't mind a little style - I think dd looks cute in her peasant blouse and bell-bottoms - but I draw the line at sexy!

Land's End stuff is great, and made really well, too, but my only complaint is that their colors are usually just enough off the norm that only their own clothes match - and they change the colors slightly every season!







And Hanna Andersson, boy, I wish I could afford that! Where are there outlets?


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## BathrobeGoddess (Nov 19, 2001)

My dd (who turns 8 in a week) LOVES flares or boot cut jeans. Luckily, she weares dresses almost everyday. She is very small for her age (42 inches tall and 43 lbs) so finding good "little girl dresses" has been easy. I know I'm lucky! I also think it is important to realize that our little girls are not sexulalizing themselves by liking these types of inapropriate clothes. I have caught myself shaming my dd for liking something didn't aprove of and I really don't want her to feel shame about her body.


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## LaLaLuna (Jun 23, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by LunaMom_
*

And Hanna Andersson, boy, I wish I could afford that! Where are there outlets?*

There's a catalogue office or something for Hanna A. in Prtland Or... a friend of my girlfriend worked there and apparently once a year they have a huge sale on all the returned/discontinued/imperfect items. My friend had the best dressed baby you ever saw for a couple years. Wonder if they have other offices around the country that do it similarly?


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## ebethmom (Jan 29, 2002)

Our culture has a REAL problem with treating children as "little adults"!! I taught music in an elementary school for 5 years, and couldn't BELIEVE how the girls dressed. The school did finally implement a dress code (no belly buttons showing, no exta long jeans, no heels over 1/2 inch, no short shorts or mini skirts, no makeup).

I want to homeschool my son. I have a gazillion reasons why, and this "sexy" atmosphere in elementary school is one of them.

I do believe that children should look like children, not little adults.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

There are two Hanna Anderson in Minnesota that I know of. One is in Bloomington (Menniapolis/St. Paul) near the Mall of America and the other is in the outlest malls between Sioux fralls and Minneapolis (sorry if that isn't much help







) It is a true outlet store so sometimes the selection is iffy.


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## carmen veranda (Jan 27, 2003)

I have never been a fashion queen, and so my girls aren't either. My dd age 16, has started wearing make-up, but just a little bit and with some of her crismas money went and got herself some thongs. uck. But I am choosing to see this as a phase. She also shaves her legs, but not her crotch. Many of her friends do. uck. double uck. I would have to say she has always dressed more for comfort. Since we are poor she is stylisly creative in her dressing, as a rule. Rather than the store or the catalog showing her what goes with what, she has to ad lib. It is fun seeing her putting thing together. Throwing a pretty scarf around her waist, or in her hair. DD age 8, likes stripes. And pockets. She would wear anything if it has stripes and pockets. I don't think I have ever bought her clothes at, like, a store store. I agree, it just looks like so much trash. Plus it has probably been made in some sweat shop somewhere, with someone else's baby working as a slave for 12 hours a day!! My sil and I send boxes of clothes back and forth-her dd, then mine, then hers then mine again, and you wouldn't believe that some clothes hold up to this. My dd #3, AGE 2, only cares if she can get the pants up and down by herself now that she has mastered to toilet!! If we all refuse to buy this garbage they have to stop making it, right? Sweat shops are real, and most discount clothes are made there. Let's all stick up for everyone's kids and say NO THANK YOU!!!!!!


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## LaLaLuna (Jun 23, 2002)

Hey carmen- your daughter and I would get along famously- stripes and pockets; yeah!

One of the nicest (smuggest) things about shabby chic couture is that you get the thrill of recycling coupled with the righteousness of not supporting sweatshops. It's almost as good as the thrill of getting a deal! (now if I could only figure out which underwear companies were sweatshop-less I'd be perfectly PC...)


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## Suzannah (Nov 19, 2001)

Try Target...they have really cute girly stuff that's not slutty. End of season sales are pretty good.

If the girl stuff doesn't work for you either, you can find some cute boy stuff. I also shop thrift stores; the teeny skirts and butt-showing skirts rarely make it to the rack at the one near my house, and I can usually get 5 entire outfits for $20. Nice stuff, too.


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## MoonMother (Oct 6, 2002)

How about bathing suits! I've seen string bikinis for newborns!!







:







:


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## casmi (Jan 19, 2003)

Oh, I completely agree with the girls clothes. YIKES!







I have 3 girls and I can't believe what is out there for these lil' ones to wear. It's crazy!







:

I do want to say one thing about "Slim" fitting pants tho, my girls are tiny, I find the slimmer cuts that pants have lately to be a HUGE plus. It's really hard to find a 3T pant that doesn't have a HUGE waist and rise.

I have found that Hanna Andersson and Gymboree (I believe they go up to a girls size 7) have really nice conservitive clothing for girls.


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## carmen veranda (Jan 27, 2003)

La La Luna: I agree. Just can't get panties at the second hand store.







. tetetehehehe


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## shantimama (Mar 11, 2002)

We have been lucky with getting hand-me-downs for clothing so I can sort through what is acceptable before letting my kids rummage through the bag. Both of my daughters like dresses - but old-fashioned "twirly" ones, thank goodness. We homeschool but see the sexy look in little girls at our church so I know that it will come up someday. I have a couple of really simple dress patterns that I use too. They really like being able to choose what fabric and trim I will put on their jumpers and to help make them.


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## Hannah's Mom (Jan 5, 2003)

I was talking to my co-worker yesterday about this subject. She said that she wanted to buy pjs and underwear for her granddaughters (around 5 or 6 years old) and had to search for something appropriate. She said that she really had to search for underwear that wasn't bikini-cut for these little girls and saw pjs that had things like "flirt" written across the chest and bottom.


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## Seeking Refuge (Nov 2, 2002)

I have a ten year old and seven year old and I am constantly fighting the images that pop culture bombard them with. Thank god, for my school system. They have a fairly strict clothing policy. NO tummy shirt, short shorts, etc. I have had good luck at a lot of the places mentioned. Thankfully my MIL lives near a Hanna Anderson outlet.
I think that along with purchasing appropriate clothes it is important to have conversations with your girls about why the "sexy" clothes are not necessary.
I don't suggest doing this in the middle the department store while your daughter is tearfully begging for the teeney tiny belly shirt.
I never miss an opportunity to point out when I think a person's clothes are in poor taste. I constantly tell my girls that if Brittany Spears were confident in her talant as say Charlotte Church is then perhaps she wouldn't feel it necessary to flaunt herself.

Ask your girls why they think someone dresses the way they do and use there answers to start a conversation.

take care,


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

We were at the second hand store the other day and there was a little shirt that said "i love boys" about 50 times. when I was wearing a size six I still thought boys had cooties.

Fortunately when dd was little she became obsessed with hootchie mamas (long story) but we would then play the hootchie mama game. I would channel surf and every time she saw someone dressed inappropriately she would scream "hootchie mama!!" it impressed our friends and gave her definite opinions about the sort of girs who dress like that


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

I have to agree with those who posted that Gymboree, Hanna Anderson, and Lands End have good clothes for girls. Yes, they are pricy but you can just buy them on sale, clearance, during gymbuck time, etc. They are such good quality that you can reuse them for second and third kids or resell to get some $ back later. My daughters wear a lot of Gymboree especially (dd2 almost all hand me downs from her sister four years older and they still look like new) and I have never paid full price for anything in that store in six years.
Good news - yes, the online site has the bigger sizes at Gymboree now.
Hanna Anderson has an outlet in Woodinville, Washington. Check their online site - it must list the others.
Kirsten


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## ilovebeingamom (Jan 1, 2002)

I have such issues with this as well. Just the other day my sister was here with her dd who is just turning two. She laughed as she brought our her dd's "hooker boots" as she called them. They were black and went up to the knee. I asked her why she would want her dd to wear something that she considers hooker boots. She replied that her dd will always be "in style". This is important to her, I guess.

She is young and naive, and I tried to explain the risks she was putting dd in by dressing her like this. In one ear and out the other! It is very sad! I was sexually abused and my sister probably was too, so it really sickens me to see young children sexualized. I appreciate everyone here who makes the concerted effort of keeping their children innocent!


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## loon13 (Dec 2, 2002)

Not kidding!!!!

That's what dd got for Christmas from a cousin last month. She is 7 months old for crying out loud!!!! The cousin said "Every girl should have a black bikini." Everyone thought it was a hoot, except of course for me and DH. The thing is 2T, but it is so small, it wouldn't cover dd's butt now, and she's on the small side. Also, I have an issue with the fact that it's black and that it's a bikini. I don't think young children should dress in black, MHO.

I have had an issue with clothes for dd since she was born. Everything is too frilly and way too complicated. Do people not realize that when you buy her a sweater skirt set, I need to remove her shoes, tights, and then her skirt bloomer bottoms to get to the diaper to change it?







:

Even for myself as a grown woman, I much prefer simple colored, practical pants and tops, which I can dress up or down as I please. I envy Dh's clothes, and most men's clothes for that simplicity and practicality. Don't get me wrong, I like to get dressed up too, but I prefer simple, classic, elegant.

Loon


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## Juelie's Mom (Nov 19, 2002)

Its so true--
I have yet to find a store that sells children's clothes that doesn't nauseate me. I heard on TV last night some news show talking about how "wholesome" the Mary Kate and Ashley collection is. Dh and I were like "what!". Everytime we got to walmart we see those hideous s-- clothes and wonder who would derss their baby/toddler/child like that! Even the more concealing ones have sex appeal. I am not at all prudish and this bothers me.

I plan to dress dd conservatively and teach her as she grows up that there is a better way to be sexy than to show skin.

Holly


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## khrisday (Mar 18, 2002)

I have to say though, I don't know where these folks who are having ahard time finding underwear are shopping. My dd prefers the bikini cut one,a nd I have a hard time finding them in her size because she's so small. I have to say that I am thankful for bikini undies for little girls- without those she wouldn't be wearing anythign at all!


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## zinemama (Feb 2, 2002)

FYI There are TONS of Hanna Andersson bargains to be found on eBay.

I live near the outlet, and frankly, it's no bargain. Things marked down from $60 to $45 don't really work with my budget!
I love the clothes though, because they are so well made, long-lasting, and non-trendy (for the most part), and I've also had great luck finding them cheap at kids consignment shops.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Juelie's Mom_
*I heard on TV last night some news show talking about how "wholesome" the Mary Kate and Ashley collection is. Dh and I were like "what!". Everytime we got to walmart we see those hideous s-- clothes and wonder who would derss their baby/toddler/child like that! Even the more concealing ones have sex appeal. I am not at all prudish and this bothers me.
*
The lacy black see through top in a size 4 that I mentioned in my earlier post was from the ever so "wholesome"







: mary kate and Ashley line.
















If this is what society is deaming wholesome no wonder it is is so hard to find innocent clothing for little girls.


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## brandywine (Mar 25, 2004)

I think they stopped selling them now, but for a while Abercrombie and Fitch was selling thong underwear in girls sizes 6 and 7. The front of the unders said "eye candy." Buncha pedophiles







: I can't stand the low slung pants on little girls-or anyone really. My DD is just starting to wear a size 5, and I've noticed a big change in the clothes availible for her now. Guess I'll just get out the sewing machine...I'm NOT a person who belives you can blame rape on the chick in the miniskirt but sometimes I see these little girls dressed like streetwalkers and I think their parents should be charged with child endangerment.


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## sweetest (May 6, 2004)

Wow







:

Dd is only 9 months and I am floored by this thread. I love to buy her clothes, especially since I can pick up such good deals on used stuff.

I taught high school for a while and had more than a few conversations with 14 year olds about how they were dressed








What really irked me is that the high school vp would tell the girls they couldnt wear short shorts, tube tops, etc because it distracted the boys








Therefore the conversations about self worth, etc.

If these girls are given this crap when they are 5 years old









It just seems so early to start telling my daughter that she doesnt have to be "sexy"


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

I haven't had to deal with this at all. I have no problem finding clothes for my 2.5-y.o. that look like kids' clothes. And all the hand-me-downs we get are children's stuff as well.

That said, once she gets to the age where she has a preference for how she looks, I feel I have to honor her right to freedom of expression, as long as she doesn't want things I can't afford.

I don't consider the belly a private part. I wear belly shirts and hip-huggers, and I look good in them, not trashy. Of course, after giving birth in the next few weeks, I might not be able to this summer, but we'll see...

Since I'm short, I don't look good in jeans with a high waist. It has to be really low. I also wear the shortest shorts; the normal length ones aren't made for someone of my height. Maybe if I shopped in a petite specialty store, I'd have more options, but there is nothing like that in my town.

Last summer, we did dress dd in tank tops. When it's hot out, that's what I wear. T-shirts aren't enough. And dd was really interested in her belly, was always walking around with her shirt pulled up, so why not just get her a shirt that already has no belly? She just didn't wear a shirt most of the time.

I wouldn't go for high heels, though - they aren't even safe for adult women to wear. We weren't meant to walk around with our hips thrown forward at such an unnatural angle. As for underwear, I don't really care - it's underwear. As long as it stays covered, it can be crotchless black lace; who's going to know? (BTW, even with the low waisted pants I wear, I always have my underwear covered. It can be done.) I don't like the idea of thongs because they can cause UTIs and yeast infections. I wore no underwear until I was 16 or so; that's another option.

My main concern with girls clothes is comfort and durability. The sexy clothes don't look all that comfortable, and don't encourage rowdy mud play or tree-climbing.

I don't think we can blame clothing for sending the wrong messages. Children learn about sex from their parents. If you dress your child like a child, and then fail to teach them what they need to know, they aren't going to grow up sexually healthy.

I don't want my daughter to be concerned with "not distracting boys." Boys can learn to control themselves. I drive past a lot of fraternities and see nipples and thighs all the time, and I'm still responsible for keeping control of my car. I don't blame the way they dress.

Is anyone concerned about little boys in Speedos, or is that somehow not as bad as toddler girls in bikinis?


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

I worry about this a little bit, since I'm having a GirlBean soon, but not too much. About slim-cut jeans: I have two nieces; one is a rail and the other is a tank. :LOL The rail owns, I believe, two pairs of jeans that fit her well. Most slims, even, fall straight down. Gymboree is not designed for long, skinny children at all, and as for Old Navy jeans being slimmer... well, maybe ny niece is thin even for a rail because Old Navy slims are *way* too wide for her.







The tank also has problems, because she's not eleven feet tall (though she is very tall for her age) and she's not quite 4 and in a solid size 6.

At least it's not a huge issue at school; she wears a uniform. :LOL They had a horrible time trying to find dresses for Pesach, though. In fact, neither of the girls got new dresses because there was nothing appropriate in any store in the mall (nearly 300 stores, you'd think there'd be something!). My sister literally went from one store to the next looking for anything appropriate and dressy, but could only find clothing designed to accentuate figures and make it look like you have breasts when you don't. What kind of 6 year old needs breasts?!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Greaseball*
Since I'm short, I don't look good in jeans with a high waist. It has to be really low. I also wear the shortest shorts; the normal length ones aren't made for someone of my height. Maybe if I shopped in a petite specialty store, I'd have more options, but there is nothing like that in my town.

I have this problem too. I think the issue is not that the jeans have low waists, it's that there are very few affordable alternatives out there for little girls, the vast majority of whom don't have this problem. When jeans which are sized for someone who is still in diapers are cut super low like that, it's just plain silly. I think that they're just saying they want the option of putting comfortable clothing on their little girls, and I totally understand. It's becoming more and more scarce.

Quote:

Is anyone concerned about little boys in Speedos, or is that somehow not as bad as toddler girls in bikinis?
The fact is, if you want to put your little boy into a Speedo, you have to look really hard to find it. The overwhelming majority of affordable swimsuits for little boys are adorable and appropriate; the majority of swimsuits for little girls are... well, not.


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## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

Back when I was fighting for my daughter, my mother made sure my DD was always dressed in frilly "now don't get it dirty" dresses that made play almost impossible. I put her in sensible shorts, pants and shirts since she was old enough to play. Boy were there some arguments. The stuff she wanted DD to wear was not appropriate except for the formal pictures. I knew kids loved playing and putting DD in stuff she could roughhouse in was best imo.

Her foster mother agreed and also kept DD in shorts etc. She only had a few "dresses" and they were only for when she was visiting grandma way back when....

I can't stand seeing girls in frills or sexualized clothing. Just makes me scared. If they thing those clothes are "ok" then, wth are they going to be wearing as teenagers???


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Cost is an issue - there is no way I can afford Hanna clothes, and even if I could, it just seems so ridiculous to spend that much! The most I've ever spent on myself for one item of clothing is $65 for a skirt that I've had for 5 years now. I'm not spending that much on something for a child who is just going to outgrow it, especially not if they don't really care about what they wear yet. The only option for buying clothes in my town that don't cost $40 and up is Fred Meyer, and you probably have an idea of what is there. We are fortunate to get lots of hand-me-downs.

As for babies, they really don't need to wear clothes if the weather is nice. They can just wear a diaper. When it's cold, try the boys department - get a simple sweatsuit or something like that.


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## gwen's mom (Aug 1, 2003)

I have a huge problem with girls clothes in relation to style but I also have problem with the designs printed on even the most innocently styled T-shirt or shorts. Clothing imprinted with things like "hotty" "naughty" or "dirty" are not meant to be on little girls clothes. IMO these messages only add to pedophilic behaviors.


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## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

it's almost all wretched! we buy stuff in the boys dept at old navy sometimes (some in the girls dept, too, but they have a lot of hoochie mama stuff to weed through). consignment shops and thrift stores are where we've found a lot of stuff. target has some decent stuff, too. i hate the platform shoes for new walkers, though. yikes!


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

I don't like clothes with words printed on them, because they look cheap. Cheap as in low-rent. That's why I stay away from them, even for adults. I think putting a large word across a shirt is one way to ruin it.

I don't think girls' clothes encourage pedophilia; I think pedophiles always have been and always will be, regardless of what one wears. They will molest any child, not just those who wear revealing clothing. Do people really believe that it wasn't as bad back when girls were covered neck to ankles?

But who knows, maybe it's some pedophile who designs all this stuff.

I would much rather have my child wear a spaghetti-strap tank top with no words on it than a long-sleeve shirt that said "I love boys" or something lame like that. I don't think it's fair to make a child wear any kind of statement that they might not agree with. I wanted to get an infant onesie that said "I hate clowns" but who knows, maybe something will go horribly wrong and one of my kids will end up liking clowns!


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## grnbn76 (Mar 3, 2004)

I've had this problem since dd's first birthday! She was a "larger than average" toddler (okay...she was 50lbs on her 1st b-day), so we've been fighting "big girl" clothes for about 6 years now.
My dd will be 7 next week. She is in big girl sizes in clothes and shoes. Not only can I not find clothes that actually cover her body, I can't find a normal white pair of sneakers!! I think Keds are the only company who makes them, and dd has never been able to wear that brand! For some reason, high heeled flip flops seem to be appropriate for little girls.
I was very lucky when she was smaller. She was an only child, an only grandchild, and the first girl in forever and a day. So it wasn't as big a deal to go to Nordstrom's or Parisian if that's where I had to go to get classic, little girl styles. Now that we have 4 kids, though, that's no longer an option.
I pretty much make the vast majority of her clothes now. I buy her a couple of pairs of jean shorts, a couple of tank tops (it gets really hot here), and I make her dresses. I actually have some patterns from when I was little that are easy to sew and are classic, little girl styles.
I am having lots of fun selling her little girl clothes now, though. It's sad that I won't be able to use them again, but they are selling really fast, because they are classic...and that's getting really hard to find these days!

And to vent about boy clothes...why is it that people think all little boys should wear sports/trucks/cartoon characters??? It took me an hour and a half to find a plain red t-shirt the other day!!! And boy shorts...why is it that shorts have to hang down to the kid's knees now???? Sixteen feet wide and down to or past the knee...might as well just wear a pair of pants!!! And if your boy has short legs, give up!!! They ARE in pants!


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Ugh, the boys clothes...I agree. I wouldn't dress my son in something that had footballs or trucks all over it. I mean, show some inagination! Or one of those camoflauge print shirts...whatever.

If we have a boy he is in for a very flowery babyhood because we're sticking him with dd's hand-me-downs. I won't make him wear dresses or ruffles, but I see no reason why he can't wear flowers or pink stuff. Dh wears pink and loves it.

What's wrong with solid, bright unisex colors? I think those are great! How come they are sold almost nowhere? There is one brand called oinkbaby.com that makes such stuff. I got this long-sleeve bodysuit for dd that is all red, orange, yellow and purple striped. It's great. Too bad they don't make any size above 24 mos.


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## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

I found a great sale twice in the last month at garage sales - $1 fill a bag. So I filled one bag, worked on a second and was starting a third when DP grabbed me from this one church garage sale. Came home with LOTS of clothes for DS and even Bun since I'd already given most of my baby clothes away. I have two green tubs full for DS to wear right now and until almost next spring unless he has a huge growth spurt.

Garage sales - gotta love em!

I'm going to break out my sewing machine this weekend. I need to make DS some more t-tunics for medieval stuff.


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## brandywine (Mar 25, 2004)

It's not the 'nakedness' of the styles that I find offensive....it's the attempt by the designers to make the clothes sexy. My daughter wears shorts and tank tops and summer dresses. They have flowers on them and butterflies...but I refuse to but the stuff that says 'hot stuff' on it-trying to sexualize little girls isn't cute. My daughter runs around the house nude, and takes her shirt off at the park if it's hot-and I don't see anything wrong with that. I just think our daughters will spend enough time feeling like they need to be sexy, they have other things to think about right now.
Greaseball said:

Quote:

don't consider the belly a private part. I wear belly shirts and hip-huggers, and I look good in them, not trashy.
and

Quote:

(BTW, even with the low waisted pants I wear, I always have my underwear covered. It can be done.)
I am also short-waisted, so I buy pants that are lower slung-I was reffering to the really low pants in which your butt cleavage shows. That's tacky, I'm sorry, there's no getting around it. The last thing I want to see when my waitress turns around is the crack of her butt. Also, unless you're very slim, the very low-waisted pants make you look like you have two butts, one below the belt and one above. My one butt is enough. So is yours. I'm not so worried about 'distracting the boys,' I'm worried about sending your daughter the message that she needs to dress to please men. Also, I don't think sexy little girls create pedophiles, but I'm sure they feed the fantasies of pedophiles. A person who dresses their daughter in lacy thongs and shirts that say "I can make a good boy bad" and pants that show the crack of their bottoms, really needs to stop and think about WHY. What is it that you or your daughter gains form dressing her in a suggestive manner. Do you like the attention? Is sexy synonymous with pretty to you? I just can't see any good reason to force a little girl into a sexual role at this age.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

I never did like the thong-revealing pants. I first saw it on a college student and thought surely it must be an accident and she would be embarrassed if she knew. Nope...

I don't want my dd to get the message that she needs to do anything for men. Not dress to please them, not dress to avoid pleasing them, etc.

My dh told me that a 6th grade boy at his school was wearing a shirt that said "Shut up and suck it."







That to me is the most offensive thing I've ever seen on a shirt. I'd find less offense in a shirt that said "F--- you" than that on that boy's shirt. That sounds like something a rapist would say.


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## magster (May 4, 2004)

This (adult type clothing for small girls) is EXTREMELY common down here (in Brazil), lots of little girls go around looking like I don't now what (yah, I know but I'm not going to write it).







: Why parents would want their kids to run around looking that awful is beyond me. I am not "prudish" but there is clothes for children and the there's clothes for adults (not that most adults walk around dressed like Britney Spears anyhow).
Our DD (16 months) got a pair of jeans from her aunt on the weekend, they are *incredibly* low-cut (the zipper in front is only about 2 cm long, that's less than 1 inch if I remember my conversion table correctly) and look totally ridiculous with the diaper sticking all the way out. I myself wouldn't want to wear pants like that and DD is not going to either, so I guess they will sneak into the bag of old DD-clothes going to goodwill. Good riddance.


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## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

The one thing I don't like about the belly and hip hugger clothing is that it makes girls look like hookers. What a way to teach girls about their bodies!


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## absinthe (Mar 16, 2004)

I am of two minds on this subject. On the one hand I am totally in agreement with most of you on this topic. Our culture of obsessiveness about sex and impossible standards of physical beauty is damaging enough to teens without forcing it on our little children. I really don't want my daughter choosing clothes based on her idea of "sex appeal" at 5 or 6 or even 12. I am especially appalled by those pants that say things on the rear end like princess or spoiled or whatever. I mean really what kind of justification could you make for putting your kids in stuff with sayings on the butt? A friend of my daughter showed up for a playdate wearing a pair of these pants that said princess on the back last week. She's 2 1/2! She can't read, her friends can't read so who did her parents think was going to be reading their toddlers butt?! Grown ups that's who! I thought that most parents lost alot of sleep over trying to keep grown ups from looking at their daughters butts? Now we are putting saucy sayings on them? I find it offensive.
On the other hand what's wrong with baby bellies? Or toddler bellies? Or five year old bellies? I love my daughters belly. It is cute rounded sweet toddler perfection. I love to look at it tickle it kiss it push her "giggle button". I'd make a bronze cast of it to remember forever if I could. I think it looks adorable sticking out from under a halter top or even without a shirt at all. Besides it gets REALLY hot and muggy here. Also I don't want her to grow up thinking her beautiful body is something that she should be ashamed of or that she should have to cover obsessively. Especially parts which half the population let's hang out with no thought whatsoever, irrespective of how unappealing I may find the sight. I am struggling with how to convey to my daughter (eventually) that her body is beautiful, powerful, strong and amazing and simultaneously that it is not for sale. That it is not to be used to sell cars or beer or baldness treatments or low selfesteem or deodorant, that she is more than the sum of her parts and that her parts are perfect however they are shaped. Anyway I guess I don't have any answers and now I am rambling...


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

It seems like men are the ones who get to decide which parts of our bodies are obscene. They added bellies to the list (especially navels...does anyone remember when Playboy blacked out the navel on all the models? Not that anyone here would have read the mag...), shoulders, certain amounts of thigh, and of course, breasts, whose biological function is often ignored in favor of keeping them out of the sight of men.

I just wonder, why do they get to decide? In a woman-centered culture, would we all walk around with our bellies and shoulders covered in hot weather, breastfeeding under a blanket? Why can't we decide that men's bodies need more coverage? They walk around topless regardless of their physical condition, they wear Speedos, those ugly baggy pants that show their underwear (in my high school, only girls were prohibited from showing their underwear) and they don't wear undershirts, even though you can often see their nipples sticking out.

Here is part of something I wrote ("The Hatred of Female Sexuality") about female body parts that I posted on a similar thread:

"In an office setting, a woman can get away with showing a lot of leg or cleavage, but one thing that is not OK to show is the navel. Could it be because the navel, the remnant of the umbilical cord, is a reminder that we are all born from a _woman's_ body? From a woman who has had _sex?_ In some situations, such as a public swimming pool, a woman can get away with exposing nearly her entire breast, as long as her areola and nipple are covered. Why would one part of the breast not be fit for public view while the rest of it is? Women often complain that men are allowed to display their breasts almost anywhere while women must keep theirs covered, while really it is only the nipple and areola that must be covered. Of course, men are allowed to show theirs. Could it be because female nipples are designed to nourish babies, babies who are born from women, born from sex? This appears not only to be a hatred of women, but also a hatred of the natural life cycle. A woman in a bikini top or extremely low-cut dress, although still hated, is appreciated by men for the display of flesh, but a woman who lifts up her shirt to feed a baby is considered vulgar, animalistic, and indecent. What makes her so? The baby?

"In a college English class a few years ago, the teacher was reading aloud to the class a story with objectionable language in it. I was listening to her read and thinking about how "liberated" she was, because she wasn't skipping over words like _d*ck_ and _motherf-----,_ but when she came to the word _vagina_ she replaced it with "blank-blank-blank!" The teacher probably doesn't consider herself a "woman hater," but I think her censorship of even the name of a female body part is an example of hate."


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## Jadegrniiz (May 14, 2004)

I haven't read all the replies yet, so if I duplicate, I apologize!

I have 2 daughters, ages 12 (well, almost) and 2.5. My 12 yr old is in middle school, and fashion at her school deems how you are accepted by other children in the school. It's really awful. And as a result, my daughter is constantly asking to wear inappropriate clothing.

I have lots of gripes - one being that Limited Too (where DD desperately wants to buy her clothing) sells thongs for CHILDREN. I also don't like the shorts and pants with wording across the butt - there is no reason for anyone but me to look at my child's rear end. She has ONE pair of those shorts, and the rule to wear them is "SLEEPWEAR ONLY" and she's fine with it.

My gripes about toddler clothing is that my daughter is TWO, she is not TWELVE. There is absolutely NO reason for a toddler to have a string bikini (Old Navy, while I LOVE their toddler clothing, has totally crossed the line in toddler bathing suits).

We like the Children's Place stores, and also Carters Outlet, OshKosh Outlet and Health Tex Outlets (we have an outlet mall here, can you tell?







)


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## guestmama9972 (Jun 5, 2003)

I am of the mind that babies need to look like babies, not like mini pop stars. I dress my daughters in very feminine clothes that are modest. They wear sundresses, shorts, etc, but none of the midriff-bearing, butt showing clothes that the stores sell now. Even finding a one-piece swimsuit for summer is hard. Last night I was at the mall and all I saw were bikinis.

We recently got a hand-me-down dress from a family at church that was halter-style. My oldest DD tried it on and didn't like it! She said she wanted a "pretty dress" instead. I was so proud of her!

I want my girls to grow up to be dignified, educated, strong women. I think this will be more possible if they actually look decent instead of having their little bodies hanging out of clothes that look slutty.

Thanks for this thread!


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## layla (Jul 2, 2002)

My dd is 8 mos old with three older bothers(THANK GOODNESS!). I love really pretty, soft, comfortable clothing on her, just like I did on her brothers. Why would a little baby want to wear jeans? They never fit right. I also think it should be okay to let her ( and them) run around naked or in undies/diapers on these aweful hot, muggy days that we have. What's cuter than a toddler's little butt runnin' around the yard? We don't shun nakedness in this house, but treat it as you know, our bodies. No big deal. We're not nudists or anything, just don't happen to freak over nakedness. Unfortunately, there're many pervs in this world who will use any excuse to commit acts of violence or perversion against any victim they can. Oh yeah, the clothes...gross. No child should be in some see through, cut up to here skirt. It's not really about nakedness or the child's body, but what these clothes really do represent, which is sex and no child needs to be a part of that. Normal tank tops, shorts, bathing suits, they are not exuding sex, "Sexy" written across a child's bum does.


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## carrots (Mar 1, 2003)

the whole sexualization of girls makes me want to







:





















:

(big sigh)

i too am amazed at the size differences for toddler boys vs. girls. my first two are girls and the cut is waaay different than for my boy.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

I don't have a problem with my babioes bodies showing. I could care less if they ran around stark naked (they usually do - less laundry ) but it is the clothes cut and designed to sexualy baby bodies. gross, appaling, horrifying really.

It is harder with my 7 year old because she is older. She also gravitates towards all things trendy and therefore slutty. she it is especially hard with her.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

I think there is always some room for compromise. What if a child wears a black lace top over a longsleeve white top? What if she gets a keychain or a shirt that says princess, instead of pants that say it on the butt? What if she gets the bikini, but wears a t-shirt over it? I think when children choose that kind of clothing for themselves, there are ways to work with it.


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## PikkuMyy (Mar 26, 2004)

I just wanted to comment on the OP's note about old-fashioned short dresses for babies. Yes, diapers were a big hassle and so having short dresses made it easier. However, many of them were pretty long. Also, both boys and girls wore the same baby clothing, so it can't be compared to anything babies are dressed in now. As boys got older, their parents would shorten their baby dresses until they made them shorts.


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

I'm with you OP, we have such a hard time finding clothes for my dd. The most recent difficulty was shorts- they are all soooo short- we're talking the little t-shirt material ones- I wanted her to have those to be comfy to play outside in, but they were all sooo short- I finally realized I just need to buy them from the boys section- shorts and t-shirts all around!!!!

MIL bought dd a miniskirt







: and she wonders why we never put it on her







.

I am all for naked kids, and their bodies are beautiful- it's the way the clothes are designed- IMO- the designers are trying to make them look all "Brittany Spears", not trying to make clothes that show off baby/toddler/child cuteness.


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## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

Why do I suddenly hear the sound of sewing machines everywhere?

hmm.. sounds like a good idea. DS could use more t-tunics.


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## lab (Jun 11, 2003)

I am so disgusted by my choices of clothing for my 8 yr old dd.

When I shop, I have to shop in the 7 - 14 section now and it is ridiculous. I don't want my 8 year old looking like a 14 year old.

Now there are some cute clothes made by Copper Key that aren't bad but they are EXPENSIVE!

I am actually pretty bothered by how the industry is forcing these changes on my young dd...... We struggle to find clothes that are appropriate.


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## LaLaLuna (Jun 23, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *layla*
My dd is 8 mos old with three older bothers
















:


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## dreadmama (Jan 8, 2004)

Sorry is this comment is redundent, I don't have time to read the entire thread...

Buy your girls' clothes from WAHM's who make adorable, non-sexy, outfits from natural materials! There are lots of them out there now.

Peace,
Karen


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Are there any WAHMs who make shirts for $5.99? If so, I'll buy! People can talk about "supporting a mom staying home with her kid" all they want, but I'll just have to stick to supporting her with my happy thoughts.


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## Persephone (Apr 8, 2004)

dreadmama, do you have any links to WAHM's that make kids clothes? I see a lot of diapers and advocacy wear, but not many kids clothes sites. And I've love to support WAHMs.


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## Icequeen_in_ak (Mar 6, 2004)

I don't have time to read all of the responses, but I did want to say that it will be a cold day in h*ll before I dress my daughter like a hooker! I'm already dreading the battles as a teenager, so I'm certainly not going to set the example by letting her wear skank clothes as a toddler!!!

Someone explain to me why society finds this cute to begin with??? It repulses me!


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## dreadmama (Jan 8, 2004)

There are a few selling cute clothes for boys and girls at
Seasons Originals. Today at noon PT is the grand opening!
http://www.seasonsoriginals.com

http://www.babybubblebottoms.com/shop/index.php
http://www.patchworkprincess.com/

Also, http://www.jomamaco.com has adorable hemp/cotton clothes for babies and kids, but not as much for older children yet!

You can find tons at http://www.topkitty.com

As for buying cheap clothing, as a single mother NOT receiving any child support, I'd rather pay more for clothing to support a small family business and know that it is not paying a huge corporation using sweat shop labor practices! Consumer practices is political, and I'm using my dollars wisely! I'd rather buy fewer pieces of well-made clothing that will last through many washings than lots of cheaply made clothes that may fall apart!

Just my view on it.

Peace,
Karen


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## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

ITA with absinthe.

while i'm horrified whenever i see a young girl (let's say under 12 or so) wearing revealing clothes, i do not want my daughter to ever feel like she has to hide her body. i mean, here i am constantly whipping out a boob in front of anybody who happens to be nearby. a woman's body is something to be admired. no matter what shape isadora turns out to have when she's older, i want her to feel confident and self-assured.

of course, it's one thing to look feminine and womanly and another to look trashy and be objectified.

right now at 7.5 months, she's long and slim and i have serious trouble finding pants that fit her correctly in the waist. too wide for her narrow body - and when it does fit there, most pants/shorts are too short in the crotch. and i like flared pants. i wear them and don't find them slutty or ugly or whatever. in fact, i think tapered pants are kinda stupid.

fwiw, i loathe those shorts and pants that have stuff written on the butt - and most teens and tweens i see wearing them roll up the waist band so their butt hangs out the bottom.

eta - i bought isadora a tiny polka dot bikini and she looks unbelievably adorable in it. the only problem i have with it is that her diaper sticks out of the bottoms. her little belly and chunky thighs! oh, i could just eat her up!!


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## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

5.99$ won't even cover the cost of fabric.








------------------------------------------
I was at the market today and found a lady selling girl's (toddler to kindergarten at least) sized clothing she hand makes. She gave me her card when I told her about this thread and said it was ok to post her email address since she doesn't have a web space yet. [email protected] The stuff I saw was cool, covering and not a single word or bare belly among it.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

In my town, it's only the low-income families whose kids dress like that. That's all they can afford - they go to Fred Meyer or Factory 2U and buy whatever is on sale there. The richer kids get to go to the bigger cities and get GAP stuff, or shop at the little locally owned kids clothing stores here.

Even if you stick to thrift shops, you are likely to find the cheaper quality pop star clothing.

But that's why I like the option of the boys dept, where you can buy sweats and t-shirts. Even if you buy low-slung pants in the girls dept, you can get a solid color shirt in the boys dept to cover the waist. If only parents weren't so hung up on making girls dress like girls...

And with swimsuits...why does a child need a suit, anyway? Why not just dress them in a swim diaper, which they will have to wear anyway for awhile? Even a girl can get away with wearing boys swim trunks for a few years.


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## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

good point, Greaseball re: swim suit.

this is OT, but what do you recommend in the way of swim diapers? i'm on a hunt.

i just thought the polka dot bikini was so cute i had to get it. not that it really matter since i'll be wearing her in my solarveil sling when in the pool anyhow.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

We've only been swimming with dd a few times, so we just bought a package of disposable swim diapers, but I think swimming pools sell cloth swim diapers, and I'm sure other cloth diaper retailers sell them too. Maybe you can even use a regular cloth diaper.

Our local swimming pool now has a rule that disposable swim diapers are not allowed? I don't know why that is...

I wanted to get matching bikinis for dd and I, but I thought she might find the neck strap uncomfortable.


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## Persephone (Apr 8, 2004)

Thanks, dreadmama. I'm totally with you on supporting WAHMs. If I can't buy from them I'll buy secondhand or make it myself. It'll be easier to find non skanky clothes that way, plus they'll be cheaper. Kids outgrow their things so fast anyways.


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## Lousli (Nov 4, 2003)

I'm kind of not sure how I feel about this. I don't like many of the clothes I see on the children at my school (I'm a teacher) and I too find the slogans like "sexy" on the butt of pants to be objectionable. But I live in a place that gets to be 110 in the summer, so tank tops, shorts, skorts (that look a lot like a miniskirt), and even an occasional halter top are currently in my dd's wardrobe. My understanding about pedophiles is that they are attracted to children because they are children, and not because they look like small adults. Plus, the reality is that I have to teach my daughter about her self, her body, her sexuality, and her right to say no and that is what has a better chance of protecting het against those creeps than anything.

I don't know, while I type this, I can think back to how I dressed at 15, and I just about gave my mom a stroke. Yet, I was confident, smart, and strong, as well as sexy. And I felt okay with being sexy and looking sexy at that age (even though my parents didn't). many of my friends' parents put restrictions on what they could wear, so my friends would wear what they wanted, and then cover it with an "approved" outfit. When they left the house, they would just take off the top layer. They always thought my parents were great to allow me to dress how I wanted, and I was much closer to my parents and more respectful of the rules they set up for me, because i believed them to be fair.

And something about the use of the words "slutty", "skanky", etc. on this thread is bothering me. It's that messed up double standard of female sexuality. There is no equivalent word for men. If a woman is sexy, or has sex with multiple partners, she's a "slut" but a man? I understand that in the context of this thread we are talking (mostly) about little girls, but it still bothers me. I'm not sure what it means to say that a two year old looks "slutty". certainly i can see that there is clothing out there which I would call inappropriate (due to the child's age) or highly sexualized. I'm not sure if I'm saying this right, but hopefully you get my drift.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lesleyluu*
And something about the use of the words "slutty", "skanky", etc. on this thread is bothering me. It's that messed up double standard of female sexuality. There is no equivalent word for men. If a woman is sexy, or has sex with multiple partners, she's a "slut" but a man?


Heck yeah. :LOL I always called them sluts, at any rate! And I'm not nice about it.

I don't think this thread is about summer clothing, but about Britney-wear; there's a huge difference between a tank top with a flower on the front of it and a piece of fabric which wraps around the neck leaving room for 'cleavage' to show.. as if anyone who wears a girl's size 6 has cleavage that they want to show off. There's a difference between a short skirt on a 4 year old and a skin-tight piece of fabric that says "bootylicious" on the butt of a 4 year old. kwim?

Tank tops, miniskirts, short shorts, bikinis.. they can all be adorable, but they can also be taken too far. I've also seen sweats which I would classify as obscene before, say, a pink halter top and a little skort.

There's also a *huge* difference between a 15 year old wanting freedom to explore and own their sexuality and a 5 year old who wants to look like Britney Spears. (Or who just can't find a pair of jeans that look reasonable on her because she happens to have long legs, or her mom can't afford to shop at HannaAndersson.com or GapKids).


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## Lousli (Nov 4, 2003)

Elionwy,
ITA about the inappropriate nature of some clothing for little girls. But I did see some posts where people were describing clothing that seemed to be normal summer wear in hot climates, or flared jeans, which i can't figure out why people would object to, other than if they happen to dislike the fashion. Flares don't seem sexy to me, and short skirts or shorts that aren't tight, shirts that show a little toddler belly, those things don't bother me.

About the "slutty" thing. I guess I just don't think this is a term that should be applied to anyone. I don't have an issue with people being sexual, and who or how many partners a woman has is none of my business. I get annoyed by the frequency I see this term being applied to women by other women. It's just another line to divide us, the "good girls" vs. the "sluts". Ugh.

And about the difference between a 15 year old wanting to explore vs. a 5 year old. Yes, you are right about this. I thought I saw a few mom of older girls (teens) saying somet hing about how their daughters dressed, and I think that is what I was aiming towards. I absolutely do not like seeing little girls dressing like adults, or in tight sexually suggestive clothing. And believe me, if there's any way I can afford it, my dd will be wearing gymboree clothing for a long time to come.


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## Shann (Dec 19, 2003)

I don't have girls (I have 2 boys) but I still wanted to put my 2 cents worth in. While I'm not a prude in any way, shape or form (I don't see anything wrong with girls showing some ass sometimes cause i don't see bodies as being "bad" or "nasty" at any age), but I was "surprised" recently when a friend of mine (who always has been somewhat of a "prude") bought a string bikini for her 9 year old dd and also some thong (yes, I said THONG) underwear for her.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

So, at what age is thong underwear OK? If we are concerned that the underwear may be sending some sort of "sexual message" to the wearer, should it not be worn until age 18? Or until marriage?

(I'm talking about underwear that is always covered, BTW.)


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## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

There was actually a complain made on the news last year about the "way too sexy" clothing for teen girls. A bunch of (mormon?) girls were complaining that clothing makers weren't giving them a choice of whether to cover up or not and still be stylish.

Me? I'm goddess sized. I'd like to see clothing that looks flattering but isn't something Mimi (drew carey show) would wear!


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## chicagomom (Dec 24, 2002)

This bothers me as well - sexy as well as legible clothing for children. I shudder when I see off-the-shoulder sequin numbers for my 14 month old, or bikinis for that matter. What am I telling my daughter if I buy this? I'd rather teach my dd to be proud and confident of body by teaching her gymnastics, soccer or some other sport that encourages coordination.

Legible clothing bothers me too - I don't want my children to be walking billboards for someone else's greed. Between the two, it's pretty hard to find anything for dd to wear these days.


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## lab (Jun 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Greaseball*
So, at what age is thong underwear OK? If we are concerned that the underwear may be sending some sort of "sexual message" to the wearer, should it not be worn until age 18? Or until marriage?

(I'm talking about underwear that is always covered, BTW.)


Good question!

I'm not sure what age thong underwear should be considered ok or normal....

I would venture to say that the girls that do wear thongs in my daughters 2nd grade class are too young.....


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

I read an editorial from a guy who thought it was wrong that Abercrombie and Fitch was making thongs for 14-year-olds. Why is 14 too young? I didn't get it. Besides, aren't most 14-year-olds able to fit into thongs not especially made for their age group?


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## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

The only time a pre-teen should be allowed to wear a thong is when its for a costume. ie: dance recital, etc.

Other than that, they shouldn't be allowed to wear them until they can buy it themselves.

I bought two as a teen. One, still in the package, I gave to my GF. Her mother confiscated it. We were 15/16.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

I started wearing them at 15. I don't really like them now, but sometimes they are good for when you don't want any lines. Though pantyhose with no underwear work just fine.


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## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

My daughter was doing that when she was 3-5 years old in foster care. But then it was the Spice Girls. And no one thought to say anything about it! AUGH! It was "cute" and "girl power" and shit like that. When instead, to me, it was a bunch of hos teaching girls to be just like them!

The stuff that was coming out of that little mouth should only be said in the bedroom between lovers! Add in the choreographed moves and ... Ick!

At least she wasn't wearing Spice Girls stuff..

What really pissed me off is that they had a concert in Vancouver and hundreds of little girls -3 to 10 - were there with their parents. Not teenagers. Not adults. Little innocent girls who should be playing with dolls, not lipsynching to "Naked" and other songs.

Little girls!

AUGH!


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## Suzannah (Nov 19, 2001)

Sort of OT, but in the vein of dancing and over-sexualized moves: SO and I went to a basketball game, and during timeouts they had three dance teams perform. The first was aprox. 5-7 year olds, 2nd was probably 8-14 or so, and the final was the team's dancers (grown wome). The littlest kids came out, and they were adorable. They lined up, and got ready to dance, and the whole arena leaned forward. The music came on, and these little kids started the most incredibly SEXUAL dancing I have ever seen little kids perform. My DD wiggles here hips when she dances, but these little girls were laying on the floor doing this humping thing, and THRUSTING. I don't remember the song, but I remember the lyrics ("Give it to me/oo, yeah..." with heavy breathing). I was floored, and almost hysterically pissed.

So then the next group of girls come out, and the same thing happens, only there are boys with them, and in pairs the boys are going around to the girls, grinding on them. There was one move where the girls were kneeling before the boys, simulating the obvious (no open mouths, but hips thrusting, etc.). The final move was the girls doing "the Elevator," which I can't quite describe, but includes wide open legs in a squat that gets lower and lower as the hips thrust forward.

Then the women come out, and their dance was FANTASTIC. Yes, some hip-wiggling, but mostly athletic and more hip-hop than sex. I couldn't BELIEVE what I was seeing. Everybody thought the little girls were cute; SO also thought they were cute until I asked him how he would feel about DD down there, grinding away in front of 25K people. He got it, but wasn't as upset as I was.

WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF


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## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

i assume the majority of us here have little ones - what will you do when your daughter enters into adolescence? will you refuse to allow her to wear any clothes you deem too revealing? do you think that will possibly cause her to act out in defiance or rebel?

does dressing provacatively at a young age worry you as a mother because you see that being associated with promiscuous teenage sex?

just wondering. i don't have any answers myself. i try not to think that far off in the future, particularly because i remember all too well what i was like from 14 on. i'm thinking i might just have a crafty mama knit me an extra large soakers that i can wrap isadora in from head to toe as soon as her boobs begin to bud


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

I'm planning on choosing a school with no dress code just so my dc's can wear whatever they want.

I feel that as long as they are not breaking any laws, I can't tell them what to wear any more than they could tell me what to wear.

I don't expect teens to look (or be) virginal. If they want to be sexy, I hope they will do it with some class, but we'll see...


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

Ever since DC was about 1.5 years (she's 2.75 now) I've been aware of the attention she gets that are "looks" based. It really bothers me. What I've done is cut of her hair, which helped lots. DC dresses herself now and I'm fine with her choices. BUT, I still choose which clothes she owns.

I must say that I'm not that upset by nudity as I am about super "fashionably cute" clothes for young girls. I think there's a difference with being scantily clothed and trying to look sexy, kwim?

I hope DC's style stays the way it is right now because it's so cute - she layers like crazy (shorts, leggings, pants, skirt, dress AND an apron! - she's way cool!) But, it's getting hot so I'm sure she'll be running around half naked in no time.


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

Here's the issue, IMO. It's about self-image and self-esteem.

Someone mentioned their discomfort with the terms slutty, easy, etc. I have to agree that I have a problem with them too (even though I use them in the context of a discussion like this). A confident woman who has self-respect and enjoys frequent sex should not be judged. Perhaps there are teenaged girls blessed with this sort of confidence. Unfortunately, I've rarely seen it (but then, I have rarely seen teenagers who were parented properly when it came to sex education and body attitudes).

Unfortunately, what is usually the case is that girls who dress like sluts are wanting attention because they have no self-love or self-esteem. A girl with self-esteem will see some guy oggling her cleavage and think "what a loser". But a girl without self-esteem will think "he LIKES me...I'm LIKEABLE".

When girls get this message crossed, it encourages them to dress in a way that maximizes this sort of attention. Which is usually the "cheap, slutty, trailer-trash-tart" look many of us are describing here. Yes, it is unfair to promote ideas that women who have frequent sex are "tainted" and yes it is wrong to throw class into the issue, but I find myself unable to come up with appropriate adjectives to describe the sorts of "looks" we are all describing here.

The fact is, you can look aMAZingly sexy and show off your wonderful figure WITHOUT looking "cheap". Without sending the message that you are deliberately trying to get this sort of attention (which, again, I usually associate with low self-love and low self-esteem).

So I think that the problem is not so much what your kids want to wear (because I agree at some point they'll wear whatever the hell they want, whether you know it or not) but instilling a sense of self-love and self-respect. Teach them to love their bodies and appreciate them for what they are, look like, and the pleasure they can bring to themselves and others.

I really think the rest will take care of itself.

And since I think toddlers and very young girls are completely unable to understand ANY of this (types of attention they will get from boys, what that attention means in terms of their desirability as thinking, feeling, people versus sex objects, etc) I see no point in dressing them that way. Besides, there is nothing sexy about a pre-pubescent body, so why on earth would one want to "show anything off"? This is my issue with thong underwear, too. From a purely functional POV, it's supposed to eliminate panty lines. Why would a toddler be concerned about what her ass looks like?


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## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

i've got issues with some of what you wrote, Piglet68.

Quote:

Unfortunately, what is usually the case is that girls who dress like sluts are wanting attention because they have no self-love or self-esteem. A girl with self-esteem will see some guy oggling her cleavage and think "what a loser". But a girl without self-esteem will think "he LIKES me...I'm LIKEABLE".

Quote:

The fact is, you can look aMAZingly sexy and show off your wonderful figure WITHOUT looking "cheap". Without sending the message that you are deliberately trying to get this sort of attention (which, again, I usually associate with low self-love and low self-esteem).
looking back on myself - i had a tendency to dress quite provacatively during my adolescence. if i'm going to analyze it, part of it was for shock value and the other part was because i was proud of what i had and wanted to show it off. that's basically the complete opposite of your comment that most girls who are deliberately trying to get attention by wearing revealing clothes have low self-esteem. i had an ENORMOUS amount of self-esteem and LOVED it when boys stared at my double d's. my hormones were in over-drive and i enjoyed being oggled.
my mother didn't have a problem with how i dressed - she was of the school that if you have it, flaunt it. it's interesting to note, however, that she has always had very low self-esteem. i'm positive she lived vicariously through me.
now that i'm older, i wish she had chastized me - taught me that there are ways to dress to accentuate your figure without being *slutty*.

hopefully i can do that with isadora. that is, if she enjoys flauting her body at an early age. maybe she'll be a major tomboy. regardless, i want her to feel secure in her beauty AND intelligence.


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Piglet68*
This is my issue with thong underwear, too. From a purely functional POV, it's supposed to eliminate panty lines. Why would a toddler be concerned about what her ass looks like?

Did I miss something? Please, please, please...Tell me they don't make thongs for toddlers - PLEASE!!!


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Greaseball*
We've only been swimming with dd a few times, so we just bought a package of disposable swim diapers, but I think swimming pools sell cloth swim diapers, and I'm sure other cloth diaper retailers sell them too. Maybe you can even use a regular cloth diaper.

Our local swimming pool now has a rule that disposable swim diapers are not allowed? I don't know why that is....

A few options on swim diapers and suits. One Step Ahead sells a cloth swim diaper that meets the requirements for most community pools. Some pools require the cloth ones because they are supposed to be better at blocking, um.. objectionable material, from entering the water. I mostly use the disposable ones though.

All of the pools I go to have rules about suits and diapers for non-potty trained kids. None allow regular diapers. Some require the cloth ones, some allow either those or disposable. The Y where we are members requires all females (from birth up) to have covered nipples, which is why I had to buy a suit from my 15 mo. old. I have found it really vital to call ahead to unfamiliar public pools and ask about the rules. Otherwise I'm likely to get there with something that isn't allowed and telling the kids we can't go after all is definitely a day-killer!

For the rest, I totally agree with dressing little girls in tasteful, non-sexy clothing. For my money, I've had the best luck at Lands End and haunt their overstock page online. They release new items on Wednesday and Saturday and will email you notice of stuff if you sign up.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:

The Y where we are members requires all females (from birth up) to have covered nipples
I'll just add that to the list of places never to go...no way am I going to start teaching my dd that she has to cover up her non-functioning nipples!

Also, how would they know the baby was a girl?


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ericaz*
i assume the majority of us here have little ones - what will you do when your daughter enters into adolescence? will you refuse to allow her to wear any clothes you deem too revealing? do you think that will possibly cause her to act out in defiance or rebel?

I'm hoping to avoid some of it by homeschooling. I don't have a problem with an adolescent wanting to look sexy. Let's face it, most adolescents are sexual beings. I don't really have a problem with her doing things for shock value either.. I guess I'm just hoping that my daughter will want to dye her hair purple rather than walk around wearing pasties and a thong.







I'm not sure.. I guess you should ask me again 14 years from now. :LOL


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## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

One of my favorite memories was trouncing around in a friend's outdoor kiddie pool in just my undies. I was maybe 4 at the most.







No covered tits my friends, just a happy little girl!


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

I remember getting in trouble for taking off my shirt in school when I was 7. I was playing some rowdy game with some boys who all took off their shirts, so I took off mine. I didn't understand what I had done wrong.

Hey, I wonder if that YMCA would be OK with nipples covered only with bandaids!


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Oh gees at four in the swimming pool we are doing goo to have any coverage :LOL and they way my girls dress around the house doesn't have nearly as many rules as when we go out. Even now the only real reason I tlak of modesty and clothing choices withher is because 1) I will not buy kinderwhore clothes 2) I hope that she will have that burned into her whenshe is a teenager and we won't even have to address this. I was natrually a very modest dresser (much to my moms chagrin who wished I would wear things a little more revealing and feminin) And yes, as long as they live in my house and I am paying for thier clothes they will dress appropriately. hopefully though by the time they are teens I will have instilled my values in them and tit won't even be an issue.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:

hopefully though by the time they are teens I will have instilled my values in them and tit won't even be an issue.
:LOL Is that what you meant to say?


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ericaz*
...i was proud of what i had and wanted to show it off. that's basically the complete opposite of your comment that most girls who are deliberately trying to get attention by wearing revealing clothes have low self-esteem.

I think it's great that you were confident. I hope my DD is too!







But I think that even teenagers who are confident in their sexuality can dress in a way that "shows it off" (and I agree, when you have it, be proud of it, lol!) but without looking "cheap" (wish I had another word for it!). I think a short denim or khaki skirt with some pretty sandals and a form-fitting cotton top in a pretty shade showing some belly can look very pretty and modest, while still showing things off and leaving no doubt as the lovely shape of the figure. But wearing a black lace teddy with painted-on-jeans that have the zipper running from the front all the way up the bum, with frilly bobby socks and high-heeled pumps....well, that is just skanky! At the very least it is a Crime of Fashion, lol.









And even if you did dress that way and was confident about it, I still say that the MAJORITY of girls who do this, do it for lack of self-esteem. I just had so many friends who didn't "get" that this sort of attention wasn't about validating them as loveable human beings. Now me and my other, more confident friends, had no trouble laughing off the losers who would try to hit on us while staring down our shirts. We had no trouble telling them to get lost. I knew the difference between a guy who just wanted something, and a guy who was genuinely interested in me. But when those loser guys hit on some of my "insecure" friends, those girls fell for it like they'd been asked out on a date by [insert latest teen hunk here]. And since dressing like a tart is a great way to bring guys like this flocking to your side, they tended to dress that way. Why does this even matter? Because every time the guy would leave (and they did as soon as they got what they wanted) their hearts would be broken. And the more guys who did this, the less they valued themselves, and the more abuse they put up with in later relationships. If you are fine with a one-night stand then hey, go for it. But I'd bet money that most of these girls want alot more than that, and are setting themselves up for heartbreak.

btw: The nipple thing at the Y really cracks me up (and is a perfect example of what I'm talking about when I say most girls are not raised to love their bodies, and to have a good respect and knowledge of their sexuality). When I was about 5 years old I was walking along our street on a hot summer's day with just shorts on. My neighbour told me that girls had to wear shirts. I was so mad! I didn't have anything the boys didn't have, so why did I have to wear a shirt just b/c I was a girl?!


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## seren (Jul 11, 2003)

I just havea question. I haven't read all of the posts in this thread. But I read a few about bathing suits. So, my question is, if you have a problem with all the belly baring tees' and pants and all the other clothes that you deem inappropriate for your child, why do you not feel the same about bathing suits? I do not let my dd wear any of the clothes that show her belly. None of the Brittney SPears or Olsen Twins labels of clothing. I also would not let her wear a regular bikini. Regular meaning like I bought at the store. See, my dd really wanted a Dora bathing suit. All I could fine was a bikini, so I bought it for her. I was going to buy some fabric and make it a one piece, but the straps are not made to come down over the body, so I bought some fabric and I made a long ruffle, so now the two pieces over lap. It's just my opinion that bikini's are inapproriate for little girls, just like all the clothes that have been complained about here.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Piglet68*
btw: The nipple thing at the Y really cracks me up (and is a perfect example of what I'm talking about when I say most girls are not raised to love their bodies, and to have a good respect and knowledge of their sexuality). When I was about 5 years old I was walking along our street on a hot summer's day with just shorts on. My neighbour told me that girls had to wear shirts. I was so mad! I didn't have anything the boys didn't have, so why did I have to wear a shirt just b/c I was a girl?!

I remember an incident when I was about 3.5 playing outside with my brother (2.5) and the neighbor kids (two boys maybe a bit older than we were). The boys had taken their shirts off because it was hot, so I started to take my shirt off too. My mother was sitting right there and she told me no, girls have to wear shirts. I asked why and she said because boys and girls are different. I pointed out that without a shirt on I looked exactly the same as my brother did. She said it didn't matter, girls were different and I had to keep my shirt on. My brother saw this and put his shirt back on for solidarity.


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## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

personally, i have no problem with shirts that show off a little midriff. i think they're super cute. same goes for bikinis.

seren, what about belly-baring clothes do you find inappropriate?

i think there's a HUGE difference between clothes that show some skin (belly, legs, shoulders) and clothes that are vulgar. i mean, i don't think thong underwear is appropriate for little girls, but then again...it's not appropriate for me either. OUCH. how anyone wears them is beyond me! i don't get how an eternal wedgie can be comfortable.

Piglet68 - i hear ya. some girls who wear revealing clothes do have low self-esteem. i just wanted to point out that not all who do have issues with their confidence.
fwiw, i did wear some of the more modest clothes you mentioned. it depended on the situation. if i was at the seashore, i wore lots of halters and tight pants. very saucy. i shudder to think of it. not because there's anything inherently wrong with halters and tight pants - it's just that i was on a mission to "get some" at such a young age. ick.


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## sohj (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Greaseball*
My dh told me that a 6th grade boy at his school was wearing a shirt that said "Shut up and suck it." ...That sounds like something a rapist would say.

There have been loads of things on this thread that I've wanted to respond to and throw in my two cents. BUT, _THIS_







takes the cake.

Greaseball, please, please tell me that your huband sent that future frat boy and probably governor of California to the principal for being dressed inappropriately.

Quote:

I don't want my dd to get the message that she needs to do anything for men. Not dress to please them, not dress to avoid pleasing them, etc.










And every time I read a thread like this or go shopping for clothes, I think to myself, "I am so relieved that I have a boy. Now I just have to make sure I raise him to treat women with respect and as individuals not like pieces of meat, like servants, or like they don't exist."

A friend has a daughter and a son. Her daughter is really modest naturally. She complains about going to JC Penney's and not being able to find clothes her daughter will wear. Her daughter refuses to even wear a V-neck t-shirt because it is too low. This is in a rural area. You'd think they'd be selling practical stuff for the dairy farmers (what these people are). So, her daughter and son wear basically the same stuff.

Dressing a little girl modestly won't keep perverts from thinking their thoughts. But, modesty in dress (for both women AND men) helps everyone normal keep their minds on school, work, or whatever instead of other stuff. Everything has a time and a place. Sexy outfits for children means that the stuff that might get thought and talked about is stuff that those kids are just still totally unprepared for.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ericaz*
does dressing provacatively at a young age worry you as a mother because you see that being associated with promiscuous teenage sex?

It bothers me because I think others think that, and I don't want others thinking that about my child. It's hard enough when people are so judgmental when it comes to children, calling them brats or what have you. Plus, if I let my child dress like that, obviously people will make judgments about me as a mother and possibly treat me in a way that I'd rather not be treated.

My daughter, Molly, did have a little pair of flare jeans when she was a toddler, somewhere in the year to 18 month range. I thought they were cute, and since they were the closest thing to normal jeans I could find, I bought them. She wore them for a good while with cloth diapers, but they fit better with disposables.

I have noticed the same difference between boys and girls clothing at Old Navy that was mentioned earlier in this thread. I bought that one pair of baby girl flare jeans and one pair of toddler capris and a matching shirt. They didn't fit as long as some of the boy's clothing, but they fit earlier. I bought a pair of 18-24 month shorts for a boy, and they did not even begin to fit. I put them on her with a big cloth diaper when she was around 18 months, and that worked. She wore them a lot when she was 3 and even wore them last summer when she was 4. She has a pair of size 2 boys pants that she got from Baby Gap, and she is 5 and can still wear them. They are too short in the leg, but she likes that.

So I found that both types of clothing fit strangely. She could wear the 2T Old Navy capris when she was 2, but she had to wear a disposable diaper. She could wear the boys 18-24 month shorts when she was 18 months only if she had a big puffy diaper on, and even then the waist was too big, but the diaper held it up.

That happens a lot now, actually, where the waist is too big while the rise and butt room are too small. I think sometimes the clothes are supposed to be a hip hugger style, maybe that is why, but I HATE THAT STYLE! I don't want to see grown women's underwear (or butt crack) either.

She isn't small in the waist, from what I can tell, because sometimes I have the problem where the legs are so long, but the waist barely fastens.

I just bought her 4 outfits on clearance from Gymboree. The pants were knit cotton capri length with a little flare in the leg, and were $5 each, and there were shirts to match for $7, so that wasn't bad. They aren't exactly cute as much as soft and comfy.

One last comment/question: Last year for her birthday, she got a little gingham outfit for her birthday from Toys R Us. A friend gave it to her and she wanted to wear it, so we cut the tags off and she wore it for a little while. Well, it seemed too small and too big at once. The shirt barely came down to the waist of the shorts, but was more than big enough in the shoulder area. I couldn't figure it out. Finally she grew into it, and it turns out the shirt is supposed to show her belly. It has a little tie at the bottom. She hated having her tummy exposed, so she would only wear the outfit with a onesie. But after the clothes fit her and her tummy was even more exposed, she realized that was the way it was supposed to fit. She got used to the bare tummy and decided she loved the outfit and wanted to wear it frequently. I think I even mentioned the Britney thing, and I'm wondering if that played a part in her reversal. I have a lot of mixed emotions, because she will specifically request those clothes, and I didn't want her to wear them. Mostly because when she wanted to wear that outfit was in the dead of winter, and also because it is just a little tight on her now. Her tummy kind of sticks out and looks chubby. I let her wear them, but if she asked to wear them to school, I wouldn't let her.

I think they are cute though, and not provocative. When we were children, we wore stuff that showed our belly or even cute little kid bikinis. When I look back on it, I don't think we looked like little hoochie mamas. But I have issues with fat, so I'm worried that part of my desire for her not to wear the things that show her tummy stems from that.

I just realized I have a photo of her wearing the outfit on one of my photo pages. If you want to see, click on this page, Winter Album, then scroll to the bottom. The photo is the one on the right in the penultimate row of photos. The waist of the shorts was actually starting to come down because it was a little loose. Other than that, it was cute and I don't think of it as sexually provocative, but the thought must have at least crossed my mind, because I worried about her wearing it. I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. That is my mantra when it comes to most things about child rearing.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Actually my dh didn't know what to do. He just started his student teaching so he's still learning the ropes...he asked the student what that shirt meant, and the student said "I don't know" and dh said "So you're wearing a shirt but you don't know what it means?" And apparently that was it.







If it were my first day, I'd still take action. Make him turn it inside out, inform the principal, and call the parents. Dh says it was an ethical test for him, since he supports the first amendment for everyone, but I think something like that is so obscene it isn't covered by the FA.

Boys have always been able to get away with offensive clothing, it seems. Hooters shirts, or those shirts that say "No fat chicks." School dress codes focus mainly on girls' clothes. It's sad. They don't want girls to show their navels, but boys can show theirs. Same with shoulders. Boys can walk topless through the halls.

I went to the only school in my district that didn't require all girls to wear bras. I don't see how this rule could legally be enforced - under Title IX, boys would have to wear undershirts as well, which they are not required to do. The rule also affects people of some body types while not affecting skinnier, flatter girls.


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## sohj (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amywillo*
.... When we were children, we wore stuff that showed our belly or even cute little kid bikinis. When I look back on it, I don't think we looked like little hoochie mamas...

Oooooh, my mother did. She would tell me that people who let their daughters dress like that didn't love them enough to teach them to dress to respect themselves.

I wore Speedo tank suits. No bikinis here. (this was the 1970's) Bikinis weren't considered practical, either. It was pointed out to me that all competitive swimmers who were female wore tank suits.

No halter tops, either until I was a teen and understood a little bit more about sexual politics. (I was already volunteering on a domestic violence crisis line and had been going to NOW meetings with my mother, so I had gotten a helluva education on it.)

Greaseball....a







for you and







for the bizzarre dress code.


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

DC wears a bikini bottom because they’re practical in it’s the cultural norm here. Like I said, I think there’s a difference between wearing “skimpy” clothing and dressing to look sexy. Also, the way I see it looking “sexy” isn’t the only problem. Girls are dressed as if their looks are a much more important thing than they should be. I try not to be so image conscious in general with DC. I feel like there is this big temptation to dress girls up to look “pretty” or “cute”, which can also send a bad message.


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## Suzannah (Nov 19, 2001)

Re: bikinis; we call them "up downs" because the tops always come up and the bottoms always come down. DD wears a one piece mostly because there is less adjusting than w/ a 2 piece or bikini.

I like her NEKKID. She is scrumpdiddlyumptious!!!! Cute little toddler body with that big ole belly; she likes to drink a lot of water and hop up and down to hear it slosh in her belly.

Re: rebellion and teenage years - I have piercings, as does SO, and we are both pretty freaky, so I think DD will be a staunch, right-wing Republican.


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## *Erin* (Mar 18, 2002)

i didnt read the whole thread, beyond the first page, but AMEN. i can't stand the skanky, over sexualized toddler clothes. omg, it's really awful, isnt it? i saw a little one dd's age yesterday, 20 mo, wearing PLATFORM SHOES and booty shorts with a lace up front and fringe, and a bra top. wtf. sick. i see little girls dressed like grown women all the time, and it makes me wanna throw up. i've seen the mothers actually picking out this crap and buying it for their girls. ugh. i also hate that the girls stuff is cut so small and narrow. what is that about??? i know there are skinny tots too, and that's fine, but why are all the girls clothes i find (except for old navy-sometimes, hanna anderson, and a few others) so much narrower than the boys? and more expensive too! and garish??? i usually buy my dd simple little shorts, tops and jeans in the boys dept. i do have girly stuff for her, but it's sweet, and comfy girly stuff. age appropriate stuff.
thongs for little kids? push up bras?
oh wow. no comment. uke


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Greaseball*
Boys have always been able to get away with offensive clothing, it seems. Hooters shirts, or those shirts that say "No fat chicks." School dress codes focus mainly on girls' clothes. It's sad. They don't want girls to show their navels, but boys can show theirs. Same with shoulders. Boys can walk topless through the halls.

I went to the only school in my district that didn't require all girls to wear bras. I don't see how this rule could legally be enforced - under Title IX, boys would have to wear undershirts as well, which they are not required to do. The rule also affects people of some body types while not affecting skinnier, flatter girls.









That's absolutely crazy! I can't imagine how they could enforce rules like this on girls and not boys. In my high school, boys were not allowed to walk topless through the halls... obscene shirts had to be turned inside out at the very least. I remember a boy in junior high wearing a Bart Simpson t-shirt which said something that bordered on obscene; when he refused to turn it inside out, they made him black out the obscene parts with a permanent marker. They told him that if he didn't want to ruin all his shirts, he'd need to wear something different to school. This same boy came to school one day with a gang name on the back of his head; he was called to the office and they made him shave it off.

Meanwhile, I saw girls wearing skirts which could be best described as wide belts who were rarely (if ever) punished for it. Girls and boys were both required to wear more than a halter top, but belly buttons were okay. I don't know about ultra low jeans... those became popular after I graduated. :LOL


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## seren (Jul 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ericaz*
seren, what about belly-baring clothes do you find inappropriate?

.

i THINK THEY ARE IMMODEST. iF WE DON'T WANT OUR GIRLS TO DRESS IMMODESTLY WHEN THEY ARE TEENAGERS, SHOULDN'T IT START WHEN THEY ARE LITTLE? Sorry for the caps, ds decided to help me type. Anyways, I want my kids to be modest. I know all bathing suits can be immodest, but, there are some that are more immodest than others. I think dressing immodestly, just a little, can eventually lead to wearing hoochie mama clothes. I'd rather not start it at all.


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## sleepies (Nov 30, 2001)

i find it ironic that boys shorts are down PAST THEIR KNEES and girl shorts basically show their butt cheeks! that angers me.

i'm ok with halters for girls, but within reason. and i think the extremely short shorts is horrible.

wonder why boys shorts are down to their knees and girls are short? hmmmmmmm

i think if i had a girl, id be looking into buying boy shorts.

PS.
your schools let your boys go topless?
yuck. i hate that look. not because of any sexual reason, i just think it is tacky.


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## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Quote:

Re: rebellion and teenage years - I have piercings, as does SO, and we are both pretty freaky, so I think DD will be a staunch, right-wing Republican.
oy vey.
i think i'd rather have a hoochie mama than a right-wing republican daughter









kidding, of course. whatever floats her boat.

i'm really enjoying reading everyone's responses.

i know i'll have to take it all as it comes, but i feel so strongly that while i don't want isadora dressing too showy during adolescence, i also don't want to stifle her in any way. hopefully we'll be able to compromise.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sohj*
Oooooh, my mother did. She would tell me that people who let their daughters dress like that didn't love them enough to teach them to dress to respect themselves.

So at the time did you take her comments seriously and base your ideas of another parent's love for his or her children on that idea? My mother was rather judgmental too, and would tell me things about people that I believed at the time, but now I realize she wasn't always being kind.

The last time I wore a bikini, I was 6. I think this was in 1973. But we also used to walk around completely topless sometimes too.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Sometimes people just can't be stifled. Even if a school has the most oppressive dress code, girls can still "provoke" guys (and vice versa) with what they are given to wear. Ugly clothes can't hide someone who is pretty. As a young teen, I actually acted in more of a sexual manner when I was dressed conservatively. It's like I had to speak for myself since my clothes wouldn't do it for me.

I myself never liked those baby dresses that show diapers. We always had dd wear shorts under those. Diapers are like underwear, and if it's up to me I'll have underwear stay covered!

Unless it's a cute cloth dipe...







But I'd just put a t-shirt with that.


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## Emzachsmama (Apr 30, 2004)

I've found it very hard to believe some of the clothes that they have out for children these days. My dd age 9 has friends who are allowed to wear the low rise jeans and the crop tops and she doesn't think it is fair because we won't allow her to dress like that. I have such a hard time finding clothes that fit her that I don't think are innappropriate. It's like they reach a certain size and they stop making cute kid clothes and start making clothes for teenagers in smaller sizes. It is soooo frustrating!







: I don't think it is a matter of the parents not loving their dks enough to teach them how to dress properly(although I must admit the thought DOES enter my mind, but I don't say that to dd) I think it is just a matter of what each parent considers is appropriate for their child. My take on it is that kids seem to be growing up soooo fast these days and I think they should be looking and acting like KIDS not teenagers. They will get there soon enough so why not let them enjoy being kids. I know that my dd has a very different way of acting when she is wearing different clothes. She wants to be like her friends and there have been a few times that she got it past me (her outfit I mean) and she ACTED older in those types of clothes. I want her to act like a kid and have fun like a kid because she is a kid and I want her to enjoy her time as a kid. Why rush them into adolescence?









Shorts on the other hand...she would much rather wear long shorts instead of short ones. Thank goodness!!









She does have a bikini. She is very long in the body so the one piece suits are uncomfortable for her. But her suit is not skimpy. The bottoms are more like shorts and the top is more like a tank top than a typical bikini top.

Sorry this got sooooo long.


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

Emzachmama - that was a nice post - I like the way you expressed yourself.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

My dd is 2.5 and wears a size 4t in many things. The 4t swimsuit we got her just barely fits. The store didn't have anything over 4t. I may have to resort to bikinis if she keeps growing like that.

Lots of kids' bikinis are the tank-top and shorts kind. I don't see anything wrong with that.


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