# Do you ever lie about your childs age?



## AllisonR (May 5, 2006)

I haven't in the past, but I have started to.

I have a 3yo DD and a 5yo DS. This weekend there was a wonderful music program in town. There was a toddler-mommy sing along and dance for 1-4 yo, and a music theatre presentation and chances to try different musical instruments for 4-6yo.

Now technically DH could have taken DS to the older kids event, and I could have taken DD to the younger kids event. And I absolutely would have if I thought DD would ruin it for the other kids by not acting appropriately.

But I knew my DD would have so much more fun in the theatre and trying out instruments. So I took them both to that. The sign clearly said 4-6yo, but no one specifically asked us, and when one person commented on sign, my DD said "but I am only 3 years old" and I quickly replied "Yes, but you are almost 4." Which is also a big fat lie; her birthday is mid november. Obviously NOT a good message to be sending my DD.

However, my DD had a huge blast. She loved watching the theatre, she joined in the group when they invited kids and did all the copycat movements and singing and dance. She just looked like a really short 4 yo. She tried out a tiny violin, a flute, the piano.... She is still talking about what a fun time she had.

So yeah, I may lie again if the situation arrises. For those of you that wouldn't, do you feel the lie itself is more damaging than the actual experience? For those of you that would do it, do you feel the experience is more valuable and you have not harmed anyone else, or do you worry that you give your child the wrong message, that he/she is above following the rules?


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## ann_of_loxley (Sep 21, 2007)

Yes I have. For example - if it was 3 and unders get in free... well yeah - if it saved me a huge deal of money, I would lie about his age. Yes - terrible liars are we ...doomed to hell! lol
He is nearing 5 now though and is pretty big for his age - so we don't do that anymore.


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

No, I don't lie about my children's ages.


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## Annie Mac (Dec 30, 2009)

I can see the temptation -- the age limits seem so arbitrary, and no one asks for a birth certificate. It can save money and allow your child access to things they would like to do, like with your daughter. On the other hand, I clearly remember being mortified and feeling diminished by my mom constantly doing this with me. I was small for my age, so she would regularly lie in order to save admission fees. No seven year old wants to be passed off a "baby" five year old! I also think it's confusing for the child. We teach them not to lie, and then they see us doing it when it's to our advantage. I never did it with my daughter.


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## ameliabedelia (Sep 24, 2002)

I would never lie to save admission price, that is stealing.

As far as your situation, I don't really think you needed to lie. THey have no idea if you have a dh who could have watched your younger dd or taken her to the younger program. I'm sure if you just said "she's tagging along with big 5-yo brother" that would have been fine...lots of 4-6 yos are going to have younger siblings who might have to tag-along.


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## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

I would NOT lie to get a cheaper admission price - that is simply wrong IMO.

I also would not have lied about age for the event you mentioned - I seriously doubt they would have forced you to leave the event because your daughter was 3, not 4. There are lots of people who wouldn't have any choice but to take both kids to the same event, kwim? I don't think it was horrible, awful thing, but probably not necessary to lie.


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## mbhf (Jan 8, 2005)

I don't lie about my kids ages. I don't want to teach my children that it's okay to lie if it gets them something they want, and I just feel that it's wrong. In your situation (and I have certainly been there) I would have asked if it was okay for me to bring the younger sibling along. Most groups have been fine with it. Sure, my kids have missed out on things that they would have enjoyed but things like that happen. My 5yo would love to ride the bigger roller coasters at amusement parks and I'm sure he would really enjoy them but it's not my place to tell him he can. Rules are set for a reason, some rules can be bent of course but I feel that decision is up to the person who made the rule. Sort of like how rules are different at different people's houses, something that is okay at my house may not be okay at my neighbor's and in the end it's her house and if we don't want to follow her rules we don't have to be there.


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## MJB (Nov 28, 2009)

Yes, I have, and would again if I thought it would be a more appropriate placement for my kids. My oldest son is very athletic so it's come up in sports; my second son is academically gifted so it will probably come up more in that arena. The age limits are arbitrary and it doesn't hurt anyone to have a kid a little outside the age if they are able to participate just as well as anyone else.
Often if you ask, they will be flexible with the age guidelines though.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

I would not lie to save money: as others wrote, that's stealing and a very bad example.

I *might* exaggerate a bit -- 5.5 could become "almost six" -- and ASK to see if there's any wiggle room. If it's strictly enforced, I wouldn't lie.


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## snoopy5386 (May 6, 2005)

I have not lied to save admission prices to places, BUT I have not corrected others either. There have been at least 5-6 times where we've gone somewhere, the person selling us tickets has thought she was younger and didn't charge us and we didn't correct them.
In your situation I would have done the same thing.


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## Stella_luna (Jan 26, 2006)

No. I have a friend who did that a lot when our kids were little, making her daughter "younger" to get in free somewhere. Of course then I'd pay for my DD, who is the same age, and it always irritated me that my DD would see my friend being rewarded for lying. She'd say right out loud, "She's 2," when my DD knew very well her friend was 3 or 4 (and when she heard it, she would always say loudly, "No, she's not! She's 3 (or 4)!") I just think it's dishonest.


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## KBinSATX (Jan 17, 2006)

I don't lie about my kids ages. Especially not to get in somewhere for free.
I also don't think it was that terrible to let your child participate in this event however. Glad you all had fun!


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

I don't think I'd do it to save money.

I did "lie by omission" when DD and her best friend were 1 week shy and 2 weeks shy of their 4th birthdays. We went skiing and the kids ski classes are for 4 and up.

I had actually called to check and talked to the director, they said it was fine as long as they were okay with separation from parents, etc. but that sometimes the college-age people at registration didn't understand that so to just say they were 4. We did. It was fine. 6 mo younger I wouldn't have, and I was upfront in the initial phone call.

I don't think it would have been an issue for your event, OP. You could just say "she's 3, but she's such a music lover, she came with her big brother." If it's rigidly rule-bound, like the skiing, then it will say so up front.


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## pandora665 (Mar 13, 2006)

I don't lie, but I will round a bit. Not for admission, but when strangers ask me, I often will say "3" if DD is having an off day and is acting a bit younger than usual or.... "3 1/2, almost 4" if she's reading books out loud and people are acting like she shouldn't know how to read yet. I wouldn't round for rollercoaster rides or anything where it was a safety issue, though.

In your case, I might have said to DD "You'll be 4 next birthday!" (very excited like, but not saying it was soon). Then again, my DD is making all sorts of plans for "when she's 4" and "when she's 8" and whatever.










Oh, and my parents occasionally lied (by ~ 6 mos only) for admission prices, and I'm an upright, honest member of society with no hard feelings. Then again, if I remember right, it was when I was about 10-11, so it wasn't like I was a little kid by then having to be quiet about my real age.

Sounds like it wasn't a big deal and she behaved perfectly!


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## Hey Mama! (Dec 27, 2003)

I did this past summer. We were at Silver Dollar City in Branson, MO. Their policy is no single riders under the age of 8. Oldest dd was 7yrs, 10 months. I told her to say she was 8 if anyone asked. No one did because she is a tall child and easily looks a year or so older then her age. Because she is a bigger then average child, I did not feel like it was unsafe for her to ride alone since her birthday was only two months away.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I did, so I could get her into disneyland for free. She had JUST turned three, so I didn't feel too bad.


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

I don't lie to save on admission fees. That's pretty straightforward.

Lying for participation in an activity is a little trickier. Age limits can be arbitrary, and often a younger child can participate safely and appropriately in a next-age-up class, as can an older child in the next-age-down. I understand the reasons for age limits though.

Safety is a clear priority. In some activities, there may be government-mandated supervision levels. In some sports/physical activities, there may be a real developmental gap that makes it dangerous for a child to play up - e.g. contact football or hockey.

Ability to participate is also an issue. Sometimes a child just can't keep up. The older children are hampered by the younger kids - they don't enjoy the activity and don't get as much out of it as they otherwise would. Behaviour deteriorates all around.

DD is in an extra-curricular science class right now. A couple of moms lobbied to get their younger children included, on the basis that the kids could manage the work of the class. Well, they can't. The instructors have had to slow things down for them. Their poor behaviour is disruptive to everyone. If the age limits had been enforced, and these kids were in a class appropriate to their age and ability, everyone, ESPECIALLY THE YOUNGER KIDS, would be much happier.

Unfortunately, too many parents are convinced that their little darlings are advanced, and insist they be included in activities before they are ready. If it truly is an appropriate placement, I'm fine with it, but sadly, it often isn't.


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mistymama* 
I would NOT lie to get a cheaper admission price - that is simply wrong IMO.

I also would not have lied about age for the event you mentioned - I seriously doubt they would have forced you to leave the event because your daughter was 3, not 4. There are lots of people who wouldn't have any choice but to take both kids to the same event, kwim? I don't think it was horrible, awful thing, but probably not necessary to lie.

I agree with both parts. I won't lie to get free/reduced admission. If I think they're old enough to handle something, though, I just take them. Oddly enough, the library is the only place it's ever been an issue. They want only 12-24 month old kids, for instance, and they get snippy about it. The end result is very low attendance for library programs. They're during the day, so it stands to reason (to me, anyway) that the moms going are at home with their children. I'm not going to get a babysitter for my 3YO to take my 1YO to story-time, ya know?

In general, though, I try to assess how well I think DC will do in the program and know that most organizers don't care as long as your child isn't disruptive or clearly unable to participate.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I haven't lied about dd's age and I try not to lie about other things in front of her. I don't think it sends a good message to kids about honesty.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ollyoxenfree* 
DD is in an extra-curricular science class right now. A couple of moms lobbied to get their younger children included, on the basis that the kids could manage the work of the class. Well, they can't. The instructors have had to slow things down for them. Their poor behaviour is disruptive to everyone. If the age limits had been enforced, and these kids were in a class appropriate to their age and ability, everyone, ESPECIALLY THE YOUNGER KIDS, would be much happier.

Unfortunately, too many parents are convinced that their little darlings are advanced, and insist they be included in activities before they are ready. If it truly is an appropriate placement, I'm fine with it, but sadly, it often isn't.

I have seen this in action too. It's one of the reasons why so many places have iron-clad age requirements, which hurts the kids who might be a little young but ARE capable of handling the work. IME though, parents often grossly over-estimate the emotional capacity of their gifted kiddos. Sometimes the kids can compensate for it by staying out of the way (I was good at that as a child), but some kids cannot and that spoils it for everyone.

I've worked with many kids who were perhaps intellectually capable of doing the work, but who didn't have the behavior or social skills suited to the group environment. And I don't blame the parents necessarily--they're thinking of their child as an individual, not group dynamics. But most rec classes and extra-curricular groups are *group* activities, and depending on the ages the older kids may not have the patience for young kids who don't have comparable social skills (or even, sadly, their same-age peers who do not).

When you're talking about preschool/school age ages 3-6, there's also the legal liability and licensing issue as well, in most states.

I really hate it when people don't do the courtesy of working with the organization to determine why the age parameters are there. Most of the time, they're not "arbitrary"--they're there because of problems in the past or because of liability or licensing requirements. I think it's because so many people obviously lie or just do it anyway that more strict policies be put into place. All it takes are a handful of bad experiences to really make you gun shy. I know I have to fight the instinct to roll my eyes when I hear someone castigating the folks at the front desk of the rec center about age limits, because I have had to deal with many "advanced" kids who *were* certainly bright or talented but who were not ready for the dynamics of the situation, and their parents never listened to me when I tried to explain this to them. After you have a few of those, you start to just not want to have to deal with it too!

As for the original question, I have not ever lied about my kids' ages, but have gotten accused of it often. My DD has been off the charts for height since birth. At 8 and in 2nd grade she looks many of the 5th graders in the eye, and she's developing as well. She is smart and athletic, but she is very much an 8 year old emotionally. It's very painful when I see people looking down on her because they expect her to act like the 11 year old that she looks like, or with disdain because she wants to hang out with the "younger kids" (most of whom are older than she is).


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

I can't remember specifically, but I'm sure I lied at the movies (or no one asked, but I would have lied) when my kids were 2 or 3 and qualified to go in for free if they were a year younger. I'd do it again . . . and I wouldn't feel bad about it, either (nor would I feel like I was setting a bad example for my kids . . . I'd just explain why we were doing it).


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## carfreemama (Jun 13, 2007)

I remember waiting in line with 4 yo dd for a puppet show, for kids ages 3-5. There were at least 3 people ahead of us whose children I knew were 6. There was a space limitation and we didn't get in.







I felt that was really unfair.

Otherwise, we tend to go places where I WANT the organizers/establishment to do well financially; we want to support them. For example, public transit. We've been told many times by the drivers that they "dont enforce" fares for 5-6 year olds (under 5s are free). I know this, because for a couple of months after dd turned 5, I sometimes forgot she needed to pay now and didn't have the fare. In those situations, the bus driver really did just wave us on. Of course, it occurred to me that I could just not pay for a while, but why would I do that? It was good to be able to give dd her ticket and let her pay. She felt like a big girl.

It's harder to see the harm when it's a place like Disneyland, making a gazillion dollars' profit. I don't know. I would NEVER ask/let dd lie about her age or tell someone she was an age she wasn't. She'd call me on it, anyway. It's easy to say that as a middle-class family, though. What if your child just couldn't experience something fun because you couldn't pay?I wouldn't judge someone who made that call.


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## gcgirl (Apr 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ameliabedelia* 
I would never lie to save admission price, that is stealing.

As far as your situation, I don't really think you needed to lie. THey have no idea if you have a dh who could have watched your younger dd or taken her to the younger program. I'm sure if you just said "she's tagging along with big 5-yo brother" that would have been fine...lots of 4-6 yos are going to have younger siblings who might have to tag-along.

This and This. I wouldn't lie to get a cheaper price, and usually if I just ASK, nobody has an issue. I've taken DS to things he wasn't "old enough" for, but as long as he's not disruptive, nobody ever seems to mind.


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## betsyj (Jan 8, 2009)

As others have noted lying about my son's age to get in somehwere free is stealing. That is not a value I want to encourage in him.

And as always I find Tigerchild to be the voice of reason. Wonderful post and while I have not yet been in a position to lie about my son's age for a particluar activity I will remember this post and not do it.

There are so many activities that ARE geared towards his age I would hate to deny another child a spot because I was not truthful.


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annie Mac* 
I also think it's confusing for the child. We teach them not to lie, and then they see us doing it when it's to our advantage. I never did it with my daughter.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *One_Girl* 
I haven't lied about dd's age and I try not to lie about other things in front of her. I don't think it sends a good message to kids about honesty.

I think these are good points as well. If you lie about your child's age to get them in for lower admission or a spot in an activity they wouldn't be allowed to take otherwise, it won't be surprising if that child lies as a teenager to get into adult movies, bars, buy alcohol, drive without a license.....

If the parents don't think the rules apply, why would the kids?


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## StoriesInTheSoil (May 8, 2008)

As others have said, I wouldn't lie to save money or if there was a safety concern.

I do occasionally take my 18 month old to the 2-6 year old storytime that is at the library closest to our house. The librarians know how old he is and have specifically invited him and said the ages are only guidelines and it is okay. That is nice because it is at a time that works well for us and is 7 minutes from our house as opposed to the other libraries that have younger storytimes but are further away and earlier in the morning.

What I mean to say here is that usually if the age "limits" are just guidelines, you don't need to lie to attend things. Otherwise, there is likely a reason.


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## dachshund mom (Dec 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *betsyj* 

There are so many activities that ARE geared towards his age I would hate to deny another child a spot because I was not truthful.

This is a good point. We have story times at the library for 0-18mo, 18mo-3, and 3-5, but everyone wants to come to the baby one and they frequently run out of tickets. Mini vent here: I'm starting to think the parents are just coming to chat, and since the toddler time requires them to actually help the child with a craft or activity, they come to the baby one and let their (bored) kid run loose during the singing. Yes, I know the ages of the particular ones I'm thinking about are 2ish. I'm extra annoyed today because my new walker got bowled over by a big kid who was running around during the bubbles at the end.


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *carfreemama* 
I remember waiting in line with 4 yo dd for a puppet show, for kids ages 3-5. There were at least 3 people ahead of us whose children I knew were 6. There was a space limitation and we didn't get in.







I felt that was really unfair.

That would tick me off big time.

The closest I come to lying is letting dd1 order from the kids menu, when she is over the age listed on it. Hasn't been an issue in years, but when it was, we let her.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

I haven't lied about my kids ages to save money on admission.

We have "lied" about ages before. DS has an 8/31 birthday. During the summer the library activities are divided by age (rather than birthday) so we have "lied" to get him into the group with his class mates (so, the summer before he went to kindergarten he was still 4, but they had stuff that was clearly for kinders. we asked the librarian and they said to lie about his age because they weren't set up to take him as a 4 but he was totally ready to do the kinder things).

We haven't directly lied (verbally) in a food situation, but I have asked for a kids meal menu for DD when I know she is over the age limit. BUT, at Red Robin she likes the mac & cheese on the kids meal and doesn't eat meat, so there is no option on the adults meal that she will eat. When she was 8 (so under the age) we often ended up buying her 2 kids meals anyway. I think we'll be doing that until she is like 12 (kids meals for under 10s) and then she's going to have to come up with something else she will eat! Most places, though, we've asked and they have said that was fine (Outback, Claim Jumper, Disneyland...).


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Irishmommy* 
The closest I come to lying is letting dd1 order from the kids menu, when she is over the age listed on it. Hasn't been an issue in years, but when it was, we let her.









cross post

Oh, I also remembered--- sometimes during the fall I will say DD is "almost" her next age. She did early entrance/grade skip so, like on her soccer team she is was a year ahead in school from the other kids but I was just like, "Oh theres a wierd cut-off and her birthday's just over the line" or something like that--- yeah, "just" 5 months over the line. Sometimes it's just not worth the investment in why she's in the "wrong" grade (and now that we've held DS back a grade, I assume I will do the same point at sometime---"oh, he just turned ____")


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

No, but I have explained that my child is more mature than her age (I only have one that is, of my three







) & have gotten her into things that way that she ordinarily wouldn't have been old enough for. I wouldn't lie, because my kid would bust me every time. She would never let anyone call her the wrong age & not correct them.


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## newbymom05 (Aug 13, 2005)

I don't lie b/c I want to model truthful responsible behavior to my kids. I wouldn't correct someone else, but I would privately tell my DC how our actions reflect our values, etc. In the OP's sitch, I would have just asked if I could take my younger in w/ my older. I'm sure they would've agreed. I've put my oldest in things/programs he was "almost" old enough for by asking.

Whew, that sounds really judgy and I'm not, and I've certainly told a whopper or two in my time for my own personal gain, it's just that w/ my DC being young and impressionable I try to hold myself to a higher standard when they're around.


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## Maluhia (Jun 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ameliabedelia* 
I would never lie to save admission price, that is stealing.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *pandora665* 
I don't lie, but I will round a bit. Not for admission, but when strangers ask me, I often will say "3" if DD is having an off day and is acting a bit younger than usual or.... "3 1/2, almost 4" if she's reading books out loud and people are acting like she shouldn't know how to read yet. I wouldn't round for rollercoaster rides or anything where it was a safety issue, though.











Quote:


Originally Posted by *carfreemama* 

It's harder to see the harm when it's a place like Disneyland, making a gazillion dollars' profit. I don't know. I would NEVER ask/let dd lie about her age or tell someone she was an age she wasn't. She'd call me on it, anyway. It's easy to say that as a middle-class family, though. What if your child just couldn't experience something fun because you couldn't pay?I wouldn't judge someone who made that call.


This point of view is hard for me to be accustomed to. If I invent something that becomes large and popular and makes me rich charging admission it's okay for *some* people to steal from me because they have not met me as an individual? Why do we punish businesses for success by assuming we can steal from them?


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## Caneel (Jun 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
I would not lie to save money: as others wrote, that's stealing and a very bad example.

Yep. I remember my mom coaching me to lie about my age in order to get in free or at a reduced rate to the movies, amusement parks, arts events and stuff. She did this ALL THE TIME. Even as a little kid, I knew it was wrong.

I did lie about DS's age while on vacation. We wanted to eat at a restaurant that did not allow kids under the age of 5. (we have visited this particular restaurant many times over the years, both DS was born and after when he was with his Nana)

DS is nearly 4.5 years old. When making the reservation, the employee asked me 1.) if there were children in the group? and 2.) is the child 5 years of age or older? I lied and said "he is 5 years old."

To the best of my knowledge, safety has nothing to do with their age restriction. The place isn't particularly fancy, it is open air so noise isn't the issue.

DS knows how to sit still at a restaurant and if, for some weird reason, he would have misbehaved, we would have left immediately.

I was so proud of DS. He ordered off the menu, cleared his plate and then tried both of our dinners. (The waiter argued with me saying DS wouldn't eat duck and I should order him pasta) He sat quietly the entire meal. When we were settling the check, the owner came over to us and complimented DS's behavior and excellent entree choice.

DH and I were just dying to say "he is only 4 years old!" on our way out the door but we didn't.

ETA - I have already told my mother that I do not approve of the lying for free/reduced admission thing and she is to never encourage/allow DS to participate in doing it. If she can't bare to part with the $5 for a ticket, I will send DS with money to cover his activities.


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

Wow. I'm really surprised that so many people think it's okay to lie (by commission or omission) in order to save money on something. To me that's stealing, the moral equivalent of reaching into the cash register and taking a few dollars.

Needless to say, I never lied. Cashiers did look askance at me sometimes when I gave my child's true age, because she always looked much older than she was (like, at 7 she passed for 11 or 12). I was always a little irked at that, but I guess since so many of you do lie in this situation it makes it more understandable.

I saw a buffet restaurant recently with child rates based on height, which seemed really unfair to me because my kid had always been so tall (she reached their 'adult' height at age 8)... but if people lie about ages so much, I guess I shouldn't be surprised.


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## Shellie (Dec 29, 2003)

I can't think of a time we outright lied. I know my oldest (now almost 15yo) ordered off the children's menu well past the 10-12 year age restriction they usually have. Always in cases where there was NOTHING on the adult menu she'd eat. I know a lot of adults order from the children's menu if they can (to get a more reasonable portion) and no one ever said anything to us about dd, so I wasn't about to make her order something she didn't want and wouldn't eat, just because she wasn't under 12. She started branching out and order from the regular menu about a year ago. Now my 11yo likes to use the children's menu--while he'd rather have larger portions he's going through a picky stage was well and loves to get things like the pasta that Outback has on the kids' menu--they don't have anything comparable on the regular menu.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

No, I haven't. I won't ever do it to save money. And the one time I was tempted based on ability, our kids wouldn't let me!

We were at Legoland in December. There's a Jr. Driving School for kids 3-5, and the regular one for kids 6+. There were kids who certainly looked younger than dd riding on the regular one.

Dd _really_ wanted to go on the regular one. I gave her the choice: We can lie and say you're 6, or we can ask to see if they'll let you on. Both of the kids were adamant that they did not want me to lie. (I confess that I would happily have done so, because I know dd had the ability to do the ride.) And no, they didn't let her on. Too bad because there was no line and she would have been fine.

ETA: I've been irked by the buffet restaurants that charge based on height too. Ds is really tall for his age, and he eats like a bird. We've had to pay 'full price' for him before. Only once did we get a break, but that's because the employee looked at him, took his height and then said "_How old_ is he? He's not going to eat that much, let me charge you the lower rate." I appreciated it.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

For saving the price of admission, I can think of one instance where it's okay--when the people taking your money won't believe you about your true age. For instance, I've heard of women who are under 5' tall having trouble with people accusing them of forging IDs "don't be silly sweetie, you can't be an adult, just buy the kids' ticket and go in." A patronization and condescension fee is perfectly reasonable.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mbhf* 
My 5yo would love to ride the bigger roller coasters at amusement parks and I'm sure he would really enjoy them but it's not my place to tell him he can.

??? Except that roller coaster safety has to do with fitting into the harnesses correctly, so it's a height thing. If they've got an age-based rule where you visit that means that some short 6 year old's going to get flung out of a ride some day.







:


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shellie* 
Now my 11yo likes to use the children's menu--while he'd rather have larger portions he's going through a picky stage was well and loves to get things like the pasta that Outback has on the kids' menu--they don't have anything comparable on the regular menu.









As mentioned before, that is one of the places that we "lie" as well--- for the same reason! Except we have asked and they have no problem with people ordering off the kids meal (I order off the kids meal if we are going to get an appitizer and/or dessert).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
For saving the price of admission, I can think of one instance where it's okay--when the people taking your money won't believe you about your true age. For instance, I've heard of women who are under 5' tall having trouble with people accusing them of forging IDs "don't be silly sweetie, you can't be an adult, just buy the kids' ticket and go in." A patronization and condescension fee is perfectly reasonable.

That *totally* seems fair to me! In the same way, IMO, if a place asks if you are eligible for a senior discount, they should just GIVE it to you. I have seen people asked who are years and years away from the age and based on the hit to their ego they should get more than 10% off or a free drink!


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## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Irishmommy* 
The closest I come to lying is letting dd1 order from the kids menu, when she is over the age listed on it. Hasn't been an issue in years, but when it was, we let her.

I still order from the kids menu all the time. I love grilled cheese and french fries!


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

I lied about my child's age for the first time last week when i took my 23mth old and 4 yo to the Aquarium. We had planned this trip because Fridays were supposed to be 'pay as you wish', but when we got there, they said it was only after 3pm....(it closes at 4h30) It took me over an hour to get there, and this fact was not made clear on their website. In fact, i doubt it was even there when i looked a couple of months ago, because i looked very carefully.

So, thinking quickly, i saw that under 3's were free. So i quickly said children were under 3. That way the entry was at least affordable, otherwise i would have turned round and left.

I dont think it was immoral. I think its immoral to exclude low income children from such places.

Maya


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

I do. I think age limits are stupid in a majority of cases.


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

ps. had it not been pouring rain, i may have consider waiting a couple of hours until 3.


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LynnS6* 
I've been irked by the buffet restaurants that charge based on height too.

We'd make out like bandits at a restaurant like that - dd2 is tiny for her age.


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## vegemamato (Jul 4, 2007)

I don't lie about age- even though it would save us money for bus fare, admissions, et cetera.

Personally, I don't like the idea of my girls thinking that it's ok to 'fudge' the truth..


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## JL83 (Aug 7, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *contactmaya* 
I dont think it was immoral. I think its immoral to exclude low income children from such places.

Maya

But you just said that there was a period of time when it was free or low cost. If it took you an hour to drive there, and money is an issue, why didn't you call before going?

I think that lying to avoid paying is straight out theft. It's a terrible example to show children.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Never. Lying is wrong and I don't want my kids to pick up that behavior.


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## TEAK's Mom (Apr 25, 2003)

I've been accused of lying about both of my dds' ages because they are so tall for their ages. People usually do end up believing us since both girls will happily rattle off their birthdates and ages. Still, it can be rather frustrating.


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## weliveintheforest (Sep 3, 2005)

I've lied to save admission, but I don't feel like I stole from them. My son slept in my lap through a movie. he wasn't taking up a seat, and barely even saw the show. If he would use a seat I wouldn't have done it, and now that he is getting closer to 2.5 he wouldn't pass for under two anyway.


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## new2this (Feb 11, 2010)

I don't think its right to set that type of example. It not only shows that rules can be broken and enables the I can do what I want attitude but also shows that its ok to lie. I mean it kinda goes with the whole spanking argument so many use. But then because this isn't physically hurting someone then it makes it ok? I think its very poor parenting and even more disgusting when people encourage their child to go along with it to save a few bucks. Plain and simple if you can't afford to go then don't go or find a babysitting.


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *new2this* 
I don't think its right to set that type of example. It not only shows that rules can be broken and enables the I can do what I want attitude but also shows that its ok to lie. I mean it kinda goes with the whole spanking argument so many use. But then because this isn't physically hurting someone then it makes it ok? I think its very poor parenting and even more disgusting when people encourage their child to go along with it to save a few bucks. Plain and simple if you can't afford to go then don't go or find a babysitting.

So those of us that think some rules are made to be broken are poor parents? I refuse to think every rule ever made should be followed and I'd rather teach my kids to think about the rule, what the purpose is behind it and if they can live with the consequences if they break it.

And as far as age limits and paying why is my 1 year, 364 day old kid able to get in free and my 2y, 1 day old isn't? Are they really using less services or whatever? And why are there age limits on menus? If I want a smaller portion shouldn't I be able to pay less and get it regardless of age?


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## JL83 (Aug 7, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Honey693* 
So those of us that think some rules are made to be broken are poor parents? I refuse to think every rule ever made should be followed and I'd rather teach my kids to think about the rule, what the purpose is behind it and if they can live with the consequences if they break it.

And as far as age limits and paying why is my 1 year, 364 day old kid able to get in free and my 2y, 1 day old isn't? Are they really using less services or whatever? And why are there age limits on menus? If I want a smaller portion shouldn't I be able to pay less and get it regardless of age?

If you don't want to pay for your 2y 1day old child, the ethical thing is to NOT go to that place.

It isn't ethical to lie and steal.

The company is doing a nice thing by not charging for under 2yos. They aren't required to do so.

We recently took our 3yo DD to a children's production. I know one of the organizers. Last year they left children under 2 in for free. But there were many obviously older kids who's parents lied to get them in. So this year everyone had to pay. The theater needed the money to keep operating. Kind of sucks that unethical people mean that now people have to pay for infants.


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## leighi123 (Nov 14, 2007)

For us the only time its come up has been story time. I took ds to the 2yr old program and really didnt like it, so we tried the 3-6yr old program and it was much better! My ds is tiny, but well behaved so the librarian didnt say anything, and we have been going for months now (and he loves it)

I have had problems with people not believing me when I tell them ds' age... he is soooo small (32months and 24lbs, 33"), BUT he has a HUGE vocabluary and speaks very clearly, and he is really smart, so it confuses people!

As for getting into disney, we did the 'give a day get a day' and got tickets free anyway!


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## JL83 (Aug 7, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leighi123* 
For us the only time its come up has been story time. I took ds to the 2yr old program and really didnt like it, so we tried the 3-6yr old program and it was much better! My ds is tiny, but well behaved so the librarian didnt say anything, and we have been going for months now (and he loves it)

We just stopped going to story time because of the younger kids. The librarian had to stop reading the longer books because there were too many kids who weren't old enough to pay attention and they'd get bored. It's really annoying.

Why not just wait until he's 3? Why does he have to go to the older kid story time now?

I just don't understand the need to rush.


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## akwifeandmomma (Aug 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leighi123* 
*For us the only time its come up has been story time.* I took ds to the 2yr old program and really didnt like it, so we tried the 3-6yr old program and it was much better! My ds is tiny, but well behaved so the librarian didnt say anything, and we have been going for months now (and he loves it)

Yep, us too. The times are set up so that my kids can't all enjoy the same storytime (0-2, 3-4, I have one of each) -- and what am I supposed to do? 1 adult, three little ones. We typically hit the family story time for all kinds under 5, DS6 still participates and sits in the back. I've never had any problem, but I do feel a bit weird.


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## mamadebug (Dec 28, 2006)

Nope. Aside from just feeling it is not right on my own, I wouldn't want to model that behavior for my son.

I believe my example is much more powerful than anything I could tell him about not telling lies. If I don't want him to lie, which I don't, I should model that behavior. I took him to Sea World when he was 3 and the cashier, after asking his age, told me that if I said he was younger, she could let him in for free. It would have saved me a lot of money, but stuck with the age, his correct age, that I originally said - and paid. This idea that it is expensive (which many of these types of things are) and therefor for some reason someone should be able to get their kid in for free or less money seems so entitled to me. It's not like we are talking about medical care or food - most of these things are entertainment. If you can't afford it, wait until you can.

Things like story time or some sing along type thing, I think that if you just ask, most of the time people are totally willing to accommodate that and let a kid join in as long as they aren't way outside the age range.


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

I haven't lied but I have taken them to older/younger stuff without saying anything. Depends on what it is and if I think they'll behave. DD is now 3 and can go to most stuff DS can anyway, but she is tall for her age and I took her to things meant for 3 and up before January. (she has her older brother. Also she's the type of kid that will participate appropriately in the activity--she visited her brother at preschool well before her 3rd b-day, sat right down, joined in, did EVERYTHING they did quite happily.)

I still bring her to 2/yo storytime just because it is 5 mins. from her brother's preschool and she went--age appropriately--until January. It also starts about 15 mins. after I drop him off at preschool. The librarian said she didn't mind at all if we wanted to keep coming. (probably helps that it's not a hugely-attended time anyway, the most other kids I've seen there is about 8 others, and that was the one really busy day.)
I've also brought DS2 the entire time I brought DD and he's now 16 months.

I'm REALLY glad our library is not a big stickler on the ages! I think they want kids to come and enjoy and the age is just a guideline. (like the 2/YO storytime has a couple things they do every week, maybe 2 "new" books, and more activities for them to participate in and it's 25 mins. or so. You're also required to stay. "Preschool storytime" you can go check out your own books and whatever if you want to, it is ages 3-5, they do more books, and it's longer.)


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ameliabedelia* 
I would never lie to save admission price, that is stealing.

I'm a person who will correct a cashier if they give me too much change. I will point it out to a server that they forgot to charge us for the appetizer, and let them correct the bill.
A one day admission ticket to Disneyland for children 3-10 years old is $62.00. If presented with the opportunity, say DD was 3 years 3 months, I would not feel guilty over spending the $72 a piece for DP, myself and the $62 for DS and stealing from the obviously not hurting Disney company. No one bit of guilt from me.

Not that this would happen, because we can't afford to go. But if it did I would.


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## new2this (Feb 11, 2010)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Honey693* 
So those of us that think some rules are made to be broken are poor parents? I refuse to think every rule ever made should be followed and I'd rather teach my kids to think about the rule, what the purpose is behind it and if they can live with the consequences if they break it.

And as far as age limits and paying why is my 1 year, 364 day old kid able to get in free and my 2y, 1 day old isn't? Are they really using less services or whatever? And why are there age limits on menus? If I want a smaller portion shouldn't I be able to pay less and get it regardless of age?

I am all for questioning rules but doing so by using the proper channels. Taking it up with the head of directors or whoever it is in charge. And teaching kids that there are rules in place for a reason no matter how stupid or dumb one thinks they are. Its really the principle of things IMO so it doesn't matter how much of the service is being used. I can barely finish a kids meal when eating but if I chose to go out to eat I still have to order off the adult menu. Does it suck yeah but I bring it home and have left overs. It really is an entitlement attitude that goes along with this and is the reason places raise their prices ect because people feel they have the right to do as they please.

And the thing is 2 yrs and 1 day is still 2 yrs old. No one said be technical and state how many days the child is.


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## baltic_ballet (May 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *betsyj* 
As others have noted lying about my son's age to get in somehwere free is stealing. That is not a value I want to encourage in him.

And as always I find Tigerchild to be the voice of reason. Wonderful post and while I have not yet been in a position to lie about my son's age for a particluar activity I will remember this post and not do it.

*There are so many activities that ARE geared towards his age I would hate to deny another child a spot because I was not truthful*.

I agree especially with the bold part.


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## ann_of_loxley (Sep 21, 2007)

I highly doubt we are teaching our children to lie and steal when we fudge their age to get a free admission into a place. No place says 8 and unders get in free ....its either 3 and under or 4 and under....what 3 or 4 year old do you know who stands right close to you, can hear you talking to the cashier whilst you 'lie' about their age to get in free (and understand all of that?)...and even if they were standing that close to you whilst you paid - paying in and of itself it a pretty arbitary concept to them ....they arn't paying attention to what you are doing and they have no idea that you have just not paid for them based on another arbitary concept to them - age! lol


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ann_of_loxley* 
I highly doubt we are teaching our children to lie and steal when we fudge their age to get a free admission into a place. No place says 8 and unders get in free ....its either 3 and under or 4 and under....what 3 or 4 year old do you know who stands right close to you, can hear you talking to the cashier whilst you 'lie' about their age to get in free (and understand all of that?)...and even if they were standing that close to you whilst you paid - paying in and of itself it a pretty arbitary concept to them ....they arn't paying attention to what you are doing and they have no idea that you have just not paid for them based on another arbitary concept to them - age! lol

I don't know about you, but I have crystal clear memories from ages 3 and 4, and quite a few of them revolve around age, birthdays, and landmarks of knowing how old I was. I remember being asked by a shopkeeper "How old are you sweetie?" and my mom saying "she's nearly four," and very, very proudly correcting her that I was "three and 11/12ths. I am NOT four until NEXT WEEK, Mama!"

We talk to them about birthdays and age all the time. They are at an age when they are instinctively watching us and our behavior closely all the time-- even when we think they aren't, because it is crucial for kids that age, the age when, biologically in our species, they begin to be put down and handed off because little siblings are coming, so they need to watch the adults and understand how to behave.

Never think your 3 and 4 year olds are not paying attention to what you do and the choices you make. And lying about *them* is the one thing that they really have personal knowledge about to cross-check what you say.


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## mbhf (Jan 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
??? Except that roller coaster safety has to do with fitting into the harnesses correctly, so it's a height thing. If they've got an age-based rule where you visit that means that some short 6 year old's going to get flung out of a ride some day.







:

I was actually just making a point about rules, I guess to be clear I should have said "my 46" child" instead of "my 5yo" Because honestly, *I* think my 46" 5yo would be just as safe as my 48" almost 7yo, if not safer because of his build, but it's not my ride and I don't make the rules of it, I also have no real idea how someone came up with those rules. If I don't like the rules, I certainly don't have to stay.


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## mbhf (Jan 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *contactmaya* 
I dont think it was immoral. I think its immoral to exclude low income children from such places.

Maya

Come on, honestly? Aquariums are expensive to operate. The price of admission is not there to exclude low income children, it's to cover operating expenses.


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

I think it really depends on the situation. In your situation OP, I would have done basically the same thing (though I'd probably just ignore the sign, not necessarily outright lie).

I also "lied" to save admission to a children's museum once. The cut-off age was 12 months and DS had just turned 13 months. I felt the theory behind the age cut-off was that children under 12 months wouldn't be able to participate in most of the activities. DS is very short for his age & I was right, he wasn't able to do most of the stuff. I don't really consider that stealing because it's keeping the premise of the rule in mind without getting caught up in the particulars. If he would have clearly enjoyed everything as much as the average 12+ month-old, I would have paid the $. I also often in casual conversation say DS is "1 year old" rather than "13 months" or "11 months" or whatever -- it's just rounding, not really lying...

ETA: My parents regularly lied about our ages growing up... they had 4 kids and not a lot of money. Honestly I always saw it more as an exaggeration than a lie -- they weren't saying I was 7 at age 11, they just might try to pass me off as 10 instead of 11. I don't really see any difference between 10 years 11 months & 11 years 1 month. For the purpose of whatever it was (kid's meal, admission, etc.) it never seemed inappropriate and I didn't grow up lying about other things at all, in fact I was almost honest to a fault (besides the age lies!)


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## ernalala (Mar 30, 2008)

(imo not relevant anymore)


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## betsyj (Jan 8, 2009)

Quote:

they arn't paying attention to what you are doing and they have no idea that you have just not paid for them based on another arbitary concept to them - age! lol
I would certainly know and am not interested in modeling that behavior in case he does notice. And, I really try and do the right thing even if no one is watching. Doing the right thing only because other people are watching isn't an idea I want to advance either.

Stealing is stealing and there is nothing arbitrary about it. If I don't think the price of admission is worth it for my toddler then we don't go.

To me that is the right solution. We either pay the admission as required, or find something more worthwhile to us to spend the money on.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Some amusement park rides do need a age restriction too, IMO. I remember one of those really big swings that are high in the air that my very tall dd fit on when she was too young to handle it. She would have gotten scared and tried to escape, and I am not cofident that the safety belt would have held her.


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mbhf* 
I was actually just making a point about rules, I guess to be clear I should have said "my 46" child" instead of "my 5yo" Because honestly, *I* think my 46" 5yo would be just as safe as my 48" almost 7yo, if not safer because of his build, but it's not my ride and I don't make the rules of it, I also have no real idea how someone came up with those rules. If I don't like the rules, I certainly don't have to stay.

But if you don't know why those rules are in place, maybe you're making assumptions that are inaccurate about the safety and your child's readiness.

For example, for a long time people thought that the "12 months and 20 pounds" guideline for keepign babies rearfacing was really an "or". So they'd say "Well, she's only 6 months, but she's already 22 pounds! And she's so big and strong!! Well, she might be 20 pounds and big and strong, but her vertebrae and spinal column are still those of a 6 month old and are easily separated under the stresses of impact. She might be "big" enough, but she's certianly not *old* enough or *physically* mature enough.

So yeah, sometimes age limits are arbitrary. Sometimes they're not. Do you know for sure that a certain one is or is not? How?


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## dachshundqueen (Dec 17, 2004)

Nope. Bad precedent. I try to keep things black and white because little kids don't understand grey.

I don't tell untruths about their ages and if something isn't paid for and is brought to my attention (child had something in their hand at store or got buried under coats), I promptly pay or I return to the store and pay. Even the kids will argue with the clerk, at 2.5 and 4.5, "No, we're paying, otherwise it is stealing and we don't steal."

There is no such thing as a free lunch. Someone, somewhere will be forced to pay the tab either through rising costs or shrinkage somewhere in the company.

On amusement rides, children still get injured even when within the safety limits. I certainly wouldn't put my child onto a ride when they were clearly below the safety limits. On one ride, which my child met the guidelines for, she was thrashed about like an animal in a croc's jaws - so sometimes those rules even when applied aren't foolproof.

Liz


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## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *betsyj* 
I would certainly know and am not interested in modeling that behavior in case he does notice. And, I really try and do the right thing even if no one is watching. Doing the right thing only because other people are watching isn't an idea I want to advance either.

Stealing is stealing and there is nothing arbitrary about it. If I don't think the price of admission is worth it for my toddler then we don't go.

To me that is the right solution. We either pay the admission as required, or find something more worthwhile to us to spend the money on.

Exactly. This is along the same lines IMO as when you find a wallet on the ground, or a cashier gives you too much change back.

You do the right, moral thing. Not because anyone is watching but because it's the right thing to do.

I could care less if my ds is watching or not .. I will not tell a lie just to save admission price. That's lying & stealing. I try very hard to do the right thing all the time, regardless of if anyone is watching me.

I'm actually pretty shocked at how many people here think it's ok to lie to save money. I consider myself a pretty open minded person - but this is very black and white to me. It's stealing, and it's wrong.


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## mbhf (Jan 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *savithny* 
But if you don't know why those rules are in place, maybe you're making assumptions that are inaccurate about the safety and your child's readiness.

For example, for a long time people thought that the "12 months and 20 pounds" guideline for keepign babies rearfacing was really an "or". So they'd say "Well, she's only 6 months, but she's already 22 pounds! And she's so big and strong!! Well, she might be 20 pounds and big and strong, but her vertebrae and spinal column are still those of a 6 month old and are easily separated under the stresses of impact. She might be "big" enough, but she's certianly not *old* enough or *physically* mature enough.

So yeah, sometimes age limits are arbitrary. Sometimes they're not. Do you know for sure that a certain one is or is not? How?

This is basically my entire point though, my OP was talking about how *I* might think it is perfectly okay for my child to ride this ride even though he is too short (or *I* might think it's okay for my child to participate in an activity that he is too young for per the stated age regulations) does not mean that it is okay for me to purposefully break the rule, because it is not my rule to break and I don't know why it was set. And there was no actual age limit on the ride, it was a height limit that my DS was just under.

I was saying that it is no more okay for me to say that my child is older/younger than he is to get him something he wants than it would be for me to put lifts in his shoes to get him something else he wants.


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## mumm (May 23, 2004)

I won't lie but I have planned visits to places based on the cut off age. Ie, going to the petting zoo the day before they turn two even though it would have been more convenient to go the following week.

Even if the kid you are lying about doesn't understand your older kids will. Plus I think it is a slippery slope I don't want to start myself on.


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## camracrazy (May 27, 2006)

Just because the public doesn't realize the reason why there is a certain age limit for programs, doesn't mean that the reason isn't valid.

We used to attend an art class for preschoolers at our local art museum. If there was space in the class they tried to accommodate older/younger siblings, but you couldn't come if none of your children were preschool age. I was talking to the teacher one day and she told me why. They funding that kept the class free to families (and you got free admission to the museum afterwards) was a grant that was for programs for preschoolers. If they just let kids of any age sign up they would lose their grant, and then the class would either have to end or they would have to start charging a fee for it. I never would have known if she hadn't explained that to me (I wasn't trying to sneak anyone in, btw!!) .


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## tinuviel_k (Apr 29, 2004)

I lied about my daughter's age once. We went to a beautiful rustic island camping ground that has a beautiful spring-fed hot tub and sauna. When we went down to take a soak we saw a sign saying "No Children Under The Age Of Six."







My daughter was 4.5 at the time, and had been looking forward to having her "swimcuzzi" for several days.

I figured, "Oh, what the heck is this! I know she is safe and mature enough for a hot tub," so we went in. As we entered I whispered for her to tell anyone who asked that she was six years old (as if anyone would have believed it).

We were there for 45 minutes and met some great people, none of whom gave a crud about the age of our daughter, of course. They thought she was quite charming, and asked her what her favorite color was, what her favorite food was, what school she went to, and... how old she was. Uh oh...
_
"I am *pretend* six years old!"_she proclaimed loudly, looking over at me with pride for having remembered what age she was supposed to be.









I quietly died of embarrassment in my corner of the hot tub while everyone around me roared with laughter. Then we all commiserated about the silly age rule in the tub.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *contactmaya* 
I dont think it was immoral. I think its immoral to exclude low income children from such places.









the Children's Museum here offers $1 admission to families with WIC or Medicaid. It's also located in a poorer neighborhood and gives free memberships to families within 8 blocks.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mbhf* 
I was actually just making a point about rules, I guess to be clear I should have said "my 46" child" instead of "my 5yo" Because honestly, *I* think my 46" 5yo would be just as safe as my 48" almost 7yo, if not safer because of his build, but it's not my ride and I don't make the rules of it, I also have no real idea how someone came up with those rules. If I don't like the rules, I certainly don't have to stay.

Okay, but where it's confusing is that you can't lie about height. Well, you can try, but I'd guess most places are going to look at him teetering on tiptoe and say no go.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

I like that our library system specifically says that siblings are welcome to come to any of the story times.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TiredX2* 
That *totally* seems fair to me! In the same way, IMO, if a place asks if you are eligible for a senior discount, they should just GIVE it to you. I have seen people asked who are years and years away from the age and based on the hit to their ego they should get more than 10% off or a free drink!









Especially when it's like:

Waiter: Do you get the senior discount?
50 year old: No, I'm only 50.
Waiter: Are you *sure*? (looking at the 50 year old like they're suspecting senility has set in)


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 







the Children's Museum here offers $1 admission to families with WIC or Medicaid. It's also located in a poorer neighborhood and gives free memberships to families within 8 blocks.

Yes, and in my town you can get a special library pass that lets you visit all the main attractions for free.

I used to live in Atlanta and the attractions there often had free Thursday mornings.


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## ProtoLawyer (Apr 16, 2007)

I've never outright lied, but I have just not corrected (i.e. when the zoo charged us the 6-and-under price when she was already 7, without even asking), and sometimes, we've flat-out ignored age restrictions, when we're reasonable sure nobody would care.

Once, we took my stepdaughter to a citywide easter egg hunt a few years ago, when she was 5, and her best friend was 7--we let her hunt in the 6-10 group so (a) she could do so with her best friend and (b) she wouldn't trample the toddlers in the 5-and-under group. Nobody minded that (and I'm sure some of the toddler parents preferred it). To me, the age limits seemed more for guidance and ability grouping than actual hard-and-fast rules.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tinuviel_k* 
"I am *pretend* six years old!"[/I]she proclaimed loudly, looking over at me with pride for having remembered what age she was supposed to be.

















Do you ever just think, "why even try?"









Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 







the Children's Museum here offers $1 admission to families with WIC or Medicaid. It's also located in a poorer neighborhood and gives free memberships to families within 8 blocks.

That is AWESOME. It would be great if there was a "give a $" jug at Children's Museums to subsidize low income entries!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 







Especially when it's like:

Waiter: Do you get the senior discount?
50 year old: No, I'm only 50.
Waiter: Are you *sure*? (looking at the 50 year old like they're suspecting senility has set in)

That is EXACTLY what I'm talking about.


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## SunshineJ (Mar 26, 2008)

Like others have mentioned, lying to save admission is stealing in our book. Also, it's, um a _lie_, and something I try to avoid (though I've told some whoppers in the past, I can't say I haven't, but we're trying hard to leave that in the past).

As for events with age restrictions, more often than not if you just ask, it's not a big deal! A couple of times I've had to let the head of a program see my kids to determine if they felt they were mature enough or whatever, and I'm good with that. Rarely they will still say no. And you know what? When I've seen the class or session or whatever in action I realize that they were usually correct. If I think a cutoff is arbitrary and unfair or whatever, then I'd rather my children see me going through the correct channels to address it, not watch me circumvent it instead. And the children's menu? Really? That's something places actually _enforce_ the ages on? I've never seen that happen! But, if that's the case I'd probably ask the manager about it, and if they wouldn't budge I'd either leave or order something and not go back again. With the economy and the way a lot of restaurants are hurting right now, I'd be surprised if that rule still stands in many places when it may mean the difference between a sale or not.


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## bluebunny (Jul 14, 2006)

Another one who is shocked at how many people have said they would lie about their child's age. I wouldn't and haven't, even when my daughter was two years and three days and the cut-off was two to get in free. And lying to get a cheaper admission is stealing. Whether it is Disney or a mom-and-pop place, stealing is stealing.


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

I've been thinking about this a lot since I saw it yesterday. I consider myself to have a pretty sound moral compass, yet for some reason I have a hard time seeing any problem in exaggerating my child's age for free/reduced admission. I guess my theory is this: If I were to visit somewhere with non-consumable resources (i.e. museum etc. where there are no actual measurable per-person "costs" to the venue) then they are not "losing" anything if my child doesn't pay. If we can't afford it & the alternative is to stay home, then the venue is losing out on the $$ my husband & I would have paid. So instead of getting, say, $10/pp & kid free, they are getting NOTHING from us. I guess that's why it's hard for me to see it as stealing. I'm not rationalizing it or trying to convince anyone else to do it -- I'm just trying to think this through out loud. I'm actually shocked that so many people see a problem with it. Now, consumable resources (a meal, an activity that costs the venue a specific amount per person, etc.) I feel are a totally different issue & I would not lie in that situation. I also wouldn't lie if my child wasn't very very close to the cut-off. In fact, the one time I lied about DS being 12 months not 13, I honestly don't even know if he was 12 months 30 days or 13 months 1 day. And does 0-12 months mean UNDER 12 months or up to 12 months 31 days?

I'm also curious whether those of you that would never lie, would lie about your own age to appear younger etc? (I would not, I see no reason to, but then again, I'm still in my 20's!)
Do you always count your change & give back any extra? (I don't count unless it's more than a dollar or two, but I also don't check to make sure they didn't cheat me. I figure it all evens out eventually & I don't have time to count change or go back to the cashier over $0.25... which is also why I usually use a credit card







But larger amounts I would count & def. give back any extra)
Do you follow every other "rule" to the letter? Are there other circumstances where you WOULD fudge the truth, maybe vax status or a personal situation or something else where telling the truth might put your family at risk? (I have had several situations where I may have mentally thought up a lie "just in case" though I've never had to actually do it & not sure I could if it came down to it)

I'm just curious, this is a really interesting & thought-provoking thread for me, and I am reconsidering my belief that it's OK to lie about my child's age. I grew up with my parents doing that constantly so I never really questioned it.


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy* 
I've been thinking about this a lot since I saw it yesterday. I consider myself to have a pretty sound moral compass, yet for some reason I have a hard time seeing any problem in exaggerating my child's age for free/reduced admission. I guess my theory is this: If I were to visit somewhere with non-consumable resources (i.e. museum etc. where there are no actual measurable per-person "costs" to the venue) then they are not "losing" anything if my child doesn't pay. If we can't afford it & the alternative is to stay home, then the venue is losing out on the $$ my husband & I would have paid. So instead of getting, say, $10/pp & kid free, they are getting NOTHING from us. I guess that's why it's hard for me to see it as stealing. I'm not rationalizing it or trying to convince anyone else to do it -- I'm just trying to think this through out loud. I'm actually shocked that so many people see a problem with it. Now, consumable resources (a meal, an activity that costs the venue a specific amount per person, etc.) I feel are a totally different issue & I would not lie in that situation. I also wouldn't lie if my child wasn't very very close to the cut-off. In fact, the one time I lied about DS being 12 months not 13, I honestly don't even know if he was 12 months 30 days or 13 months 1 day. And does 0-12 months mean UNDER 12 months or up to 12 months 31 days?


I had (but lost) a whole long response about the problems of comparing fixed-cost (building, installations etc.) intensive ventures with variable-cost (raw materials and labour) intensive ventures. The bottom line (and it's all about the financial bottom line) is that a group that has to pay substantial amounts just to open their doors will need every revenue dollar it can generate to make it a worthwhile effort. That's why airlines and vacation resorts offer last-minute sales just to get bums in seats, and why family rates exist for attractions like museums etc. That pricing structure is up to the business, though, not the customer. You can use it as a rationalization for lying, but those are also the sort of rationalizations in "creative accounting" that led to Enron and all sorts of other financial headaches and heartaches.

I won't re-type it all, but I'll just say that while a parent who lies about a child's age for reduced admission is NOT the moral equivalent of the financial executives who played fast and loose with corporations, it is part of the same attitude and approach to business and life that make these news stories repeat year after year.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy* 
I'm also curious whether those of you that would never lie, would lie about your own age to appear younger etc? (I would not, I see no reason to, but then again, I'm still in my 20's!)
Do you always count your change & give back any extra? (I don't count unless it's more than a dollar or two, but I also don't check to make sure they didn't gip me. I figure it all evens out eventually & I don't have time to count change or go back to the cashier over $0.25... which is also why I usually use a credit card








But larger amounts I would count & def. give back any extra)
Do you follow every other "rule" to the letter? Are there other circumstances where you WOULD fudge the truth, maybe vax status or a personal situation or something else where telling the truth might put your family at risk? (I have had several situations where I may have mentally thought up a lie "just in case" though I've never had to actually do it & not sure I could if it came down to it)


I won't pretend that I've never lied about anything. I tell social lies ALL THE TIME. I can't think of a situation where I would lie about money though. Perhaps if we were in financial difficulty and it meant the difference between feeding my family and not.

I don't lie about my age because I honestly have trouble remembering it. Just last week someone was saying that they didn't think I looked old enough to have a child who was almost finished high school. I'm almost 50 (47), and I think I look my age. I had to do a quick calculation before I could tell her my age though - for a minute, I was thinking that I had already turned 48.

I use a debit card for almost all purchases over $10, so change isn't usually something I worry about. I don't count it.

As I posted upthread a while ago, my concerns about lying about age aren't just about whether it's stealing. I think that it sets a bad example for children who will one day be tempted to lie themselves about their age - to get into bars, to buy alcohol and cigarettes, etc. If a parent has consistently lied for their personal benefit, then how can they object if the child does it as well?


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## ChristaN (Feb 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluebunny* 
Another one who is shocked at how many people have said they would lie about their child's age. I wouldn't and haven't, even when my daughter was two years and three days and the cut-off was two to get in free. And lying to get a cheaper admission is stealing. Whether it is Disney or a mom-and-pop place, stealing is stealing.

Although it does rankle me when others do it, I take this same approach. When dd#1 was almost two, we flew to Canada for her grandfather's wedding. She was a few days under two on the flight there, turned two while we were there, and flew back like the day after her 2nd bd. I asked the airline about her being a lap baby (under two) and they said that I had to pay airfare both ways if she would be two for any leg of the trip. She was (and is) small & I could have passed her off as under two, but we wound up paying for her airfare and getting her her own seat.


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## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

Crunchy_Mommy - I believe that when you lie for reduced price admissions, you do hurt the bottom line. It may be much less obvious at Disneyworld vs. a Mom & Pop run museum, but the truth is that it does make a difference.

I think about our local science museum where ds is at a spring break camp right now. We are members and get reduced fees on camps, etc ... I also get to see first hand how often they have to ask for donations and hold fundraisers to keep the place open. I know every dollar counts in that place. Our local zoo is the same way .. I don't think it's a stretch to assume that is the norm for many children's museums, aquariums, zoo's, etc ... they are expensive to run, have wonderful children's programs and usually NEED all the admissions they collect plus donations to run successfully.

Also, I have never lied about my age. I'm 34 .. I'm not perfect and sure I've told some whoppers in my day.







But I really, really TRY my best to be honest in everything I do. It's what feels right to me.

I usually use my debit card so I don't need to count change. But I've noticed if something wasn't rung up and told the cashier .. like at Whole Foods a few weeks ago, the cashier thought I had brought my own bags when in fact I had put them in my cart to purchase them in the store. She didn't ring them up, and I had her scan them and run my card again. I could have gotten away with it, but that is stealing.


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## betsyj (Jan 8, 2009)

Quote:

I won't re-type it all, but I'll just say that while a parent who lies about a child's age for reduced admission is NOT the moral equivalent of the financial executives who played fast and loose with corporations, it is part of the same attitude and approach to business and life that make these news stories repeat year after year.
Well said. When you (general you) start to believe that situational stealing (say admission to Disneyland), or age related stealing (saying he is under 12 when he is not), or stealing a little bit (say getting a dollar too much back) is ok, I think it is a very slippery slope both for us as individuals and for our children.

When it comes to stealing I truly believe in following a no exceptions rule because the waters get muddy awfully fast.

Quote:

I'm not perfect and sure I've told some whoppers in my day. But I really, really TRY my best to be honest in everything I do. It's what feels right to me.
As have I. And like the PP mentioned it just feels right. I really try hard to be honest and forthright in my day to day life because I think it is critical to teach out children these same values.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy* 
I've been thinking about this a lot since I saw it yesterday. I consider myself to have a pretty sound moral compass, yet for some reason I have a hard time seeing any problem in exaggerating my child's age for free/reduced admission. I guess my theory is this: If I were to visit somewhere with non-consumable resources (i.e. museum etc. where there are no actual measurable per-person "costs" to the venue) then they are not "losing" anything if my child doesn't pay. If we can't afford it & the alternative is to stay home, then the venue is losing out on the $$ my husband & I would have paid. So instead of getting, say, $10/pp & kid free, they are getting NOTHING from us. I guess that's why it's hard for me to see it as stealing. I'm not rationalizing it or trying to convince anyone else to do it -- I'm just trying to think this through out loud. I'm actually shocked that so many people see a problem with it. Now, consumable resources (a meal, an activity that costs the venue a specific amount per person, etc.) I feel are a totally different issue & I would not lie in that situation. I also wouldn't lie if my child wasn't very very close to the cut-off. In fact, the one time I lied about DS being 12 months not 13, I honestly don't even know if he was 12 months 30 days or 13 months 1 day. And does 0-12 months mean UNDER 12 months or up to 12 months 31 days?

I'm also curious whether those of you that would never lie, would lie about your own age to appear younger etc? (I would not, I see no reason to, but then again, I'm still in my 20's!)
Do you always count your change & give back any extra? (I don't count unless it's more than a dollar or two, but I also don't check to make sure they didn't gip me. I figure it all evens out eventually & I don't have time to count change or go back to the cashier over $0.25... which is also why I usually use a credit card







But larger amounts I would count & def. give back any extra)
Do you follow every other "rule" to the letter? Are there other circumstances where you WOULD fudge the truth, maybe vax status or a personal situation or something else where telling the truth might put your family at risk? (I have had several situations where I may have mentally thought up a lie "just in case" though I've never had to actually do it & not sure I could if it came down to it)

I'm just curious, this is a really interesting & thought-provoking thread for me, and I am reconsidering my belief that it's OK to lie about my child's age. I grew up with my parents doing that constantly so I never really questioned it.

I personally believe that one of the best values I can teach my child is "if you can't afford it, don't buy it." That goes for credit cards but it also goes for lying over admission fees, choosing restaurants, etc. If we can't afford to pay according to his actual age, then we go to the park.

I realize that I am gifted with a city where there's a lot available for free, and where museums sometimes have cheap days or a free evening or whatever (and libraries have passes for families too).

And yes, I've walked back to the store to return the extra dollar in change. One time when my son was 2 he 'stole' (pretty young to get the concept) a pack of mints I didn't notice until we were home...we drove back. I was more forming the habit for myself of dealing with these things honestly and up front. The store owner gave him a cookie for free so not sure what the lesson was, but now we have a great relationship with the local grocery store owner and that is valuable to me in its own way.

I'm sure there are circumstances where I would lie, but not to save money. Or about anything you listed.

It's not my job to decide for a business owner what he or she is "really" making or "really" means by the rules.


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## Kelly1101 (Oct 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mistymama* 
You do the right, moral thing. Not because anyone is watching but because it's the right thing to do.

Yes. This is what I want my children to think when they get older.


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## new2this (Feb 11, 2010)

I have seen it many times in this thread. Most places say 2 and under or 3 and under or whatever. So even if your child is 2 and 3 months your child is still 2. That would not be lying about their age. Its the lying when a child is 3 or 4 and someone saying well they are small for their age so pass them off as 2 or whatever to save a few bucks. That to me is lying. Not saying well they are 2 and 3 months and it says 2 and under. Because bottom line they still are 2. Adults don't go walking around saying well I am 27 and 3 months. You are 27 for the whole dang year.


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mistymama* 
I think about our local science museum where ds is at a spring break camp right now. We are members and get reduced fees on camps, etc ... I also get to see first hand how often they have to ask for donations and hold fundraisers to keep the place open. I know every dollar counts in that place. Our local zoo is the same way .. I don't think it's a stretch to assume that is the norm for many children's museums, aquariums, zoo's, etc ... they are expensive to run, have wonderful children's programs and usually NEED all the admissions they collect plus donations to run successfully.

OK so if every dollar counts & the only way my parents could take us is if they only paid for 5 out of the 6 of us, then the museum is still getting $10/pp ($50) instead of NOTHING. They aren't losing $10, they are gaining $50 because otherwise we wouldn't have gone at all. Yes I know this is really stretching things and maybe a bad train of thought to take, I guess I just feel that many places aren't "family friendly" unless you only have 2 or 3 kids. If you have 4+ kids, you're screwed. All the library passes are for 2 adults, 2 kids... all the family memberships are for a family of 4-5... I see why my parents lied about ages occasionally. I don't see how it hurts to fudge things a few days or weeks in one direction or the other.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *betsyj* 
Well said. When you (general you) start to believe that situational stealing (say admission to Disneyland), or age related stealing (saying he is under 12 when he is not), or stealing a little bit (say getting a dollar too much back) is ok, I think it is a very slippery slope both for us as individuals and for our children.

When it comes to stealing I truly believe in following a no exceptions rule because the waters get muddy awfully fast.

I also have trouble with this because the waters have never been muddy at all for me or my family. This seems to suggest that paying half price because your kid is 2yrs 1 day old is going to lead the family to steal food or TVs or cars...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
I personally believe that one of the best values I can teach my child is "if you can't afford it, don't buy it." That goes for credit cards but it also goes for lying over admission fees, choosing restaurants, etc. If we can't afford to pay according to his actual age, then we go to the park.

I realize that I am gifted with a city where there's a lot available for free, and where museums sometimes have cheap days or a free evening or whatever (and libraries have passes for families too).

You are definitely lucky!! In my area the COL is pretty high & just paying gas & parking to visit somewhere like a museum can eat up any "extra" money we may have had, never mind the actual admission... and the library passes are reduced price not free (so the aquarium, for ex., still costs $22/pp admission with a pass)!!! I wish they had more free/cheap things, luckily we like to hike hehee...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
It's not my job to decide for a business owner what he or she is "really" making or "really" means by the rules.

I guess I don't really believe in blindly following rules. I'm hypoglycemic, for ex., and many places have a no food/drink policy, but if I don't eat something I will get really sick. So I bring my food & eat it very neatly & discretely. There are many many many rules in place in this world & some of them are sensible while others are inconvenient or downright ridiculous. I don't believe "rules were made to be broken" but I do feel we need to understand the rules to be able to follow them or break them.

P.S. Again, I'm just playing devil's advocate with this post, like I said, just thinking things through etc., not trying to condone stealing/lying or anything!!


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## mommy2maya (Jun 7, 2003)

for the ages your kids are, and the programs you listed, I would have no qualms about picking either one, and really no need to fudge the ages.


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## mommy2maya (Jun 7, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ameliabedelia* 
I would never lie to save admission price, that is stealing.

As far as your situation, I don't really think you needed to lie. THey have no idea if you have a dh who could have watched your younger dd or taken her to the younger program. I'm sure if you just said "she's tagging along with big 5-yo brother" that would have been fine...lots of 4-6 yos are going to have younger siblings who might have to tag-along.

I've done this at our local children's museum with my baby. Their age to start paying is 1yr. Well, when she was 1yr, she was still the size of a 8-9mo, and about 7min her skill set. So, technically she was a year, but she certainly was not getting anything out of the experience that a typically developing 1yo would get.


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## betsyj (Jan 8, 2009)

Quote:

This seems to suggest that paying half price because your kid is 2yrs 1 day old is going to lead the family to steal food or TVs or cars...
My son is going to be two in May. He will be two until next May, when he turns three. So, for the entire next year he will be two and get to go places for free.

I am super confused where all this two years and one day stuff came from?


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *betsyj* 
My son is going to be two in May. He will be two until next May, when he turns three. So, for the entire next year he will be two and get to go places for free.

I am super confused where all this two years and one day stuff came from?

OK now I am too. I know one poster above paid for her 2 year + a few days old to have her own plane ticket. Maybe some people (like the ticket agent) think it means up 'til age 2? I would think 'under 2' is up to the point they turn 2, and '2 years & under' would be up to the point they turn 3... Maybe some places have more ambiguous wording.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy2maya* 
I've done this at our local children's museum with my baby. Their age to start paying is 1yr. Well, when she was 1yr, she was still the size of a 8-9mo, and about 7min her skill set. So, technically she was a year, but she certainly was not getting anything out of the experience that a typically developing 1yo would get.

Yup that's exactly what we did for the exact same reasons! Poor kid was too short to reach the sand table and he got mad









I will say this thread is really making me think twice about doing it in the future though (in relation to admission prices)... I really truly never gave it this much thought, I just assumed everyone did it & all venues assume you will fudge ages. It's really weird to think about it in terms of stealing but I can see how... I mean, I wouldn't hide my kid in a bag & sneak him in, so why would I lie about his age to get him in free?


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

I think they mean somewhere that "under 2 is free, and hence a "1 yr and 364 day old is free, but a 2 years and 1 day pays." I hear "2 and under free" or "3 and under free" more often around here.

On the kids' birthdays, I say so (FWIW, everywhere I've said that, like "She's 2 today, we came to celebrate at the aquarium!" they've told us she can come in free since it's her birthday). The next day, or week, or month, we pay.







I've only fudged ages with supervisor approval (like the skiing where you have to be 4 but DD was 3 and 50 weeks, supervisor when I called before the trip said just don't tell the sales desk bc they're a little clueless).

I do look closely at the rules when buying memberships though. I had a "single adult with guest" membership to one because DS was young enough to be free, I could bring 1 "guest" each trip, which got DD in, and DH never went to that museum; the few times he did, he paid his own way. It was certainly cheaper than the family membership they tried to sell me, but it followed all their rules.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TiredX2* 
That is AWESOME. It would be great if there was a "give a $" jug at Children's Museums to subsidize low income entries!

There is, but it goes to sponsoring the days they're open for free. So first Thursdays from 5-8 and MLK, Labor day, and a couple other days.

Now, where I grew up all the major kid-friendly things (children's, science, art museums and the zoo) had monthly free days. So my family'd get a membership to one and go there once or twice a week, and go to the others on their free days. Then we'd get a different membership the next year.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy* 
OK so if every dollar counts & the only way my parents could take us is if they only paid for 5 out of the 6 of us, then the museum is still getting $10/pp ($50) instead of NOTHING. They aren't losing $10, they are gaining $50 because otherwise we wouldn't have gone at all. Yes I know this is really stretching things and maybe a bad train of thought to take, I guess I just feel that many places aren't "family friendly" unless you only have 2 or 3 kids. If you have 4+ kids, you're screwed. All the library passes are for 2 adults, 2 kids... all the family memberships are for a family of 4-5... I see why my parents lied about ages occasionally. I don't see how it hurts to fudge things a few days or weeks in one direction or the other.

I see how you've arrived at your conclusion but what if I only have one child? Then it's not okay to lie? Or what if I decide to bring 3 friends? Then I can lie?

In all honesty I'm not that impressed with your justification here. Not to be harsh but if you choose to have a large family then yes, admission will cost more for your large family. I'm not really sure why you want the other people paying to subsidize them. You look at it as otherwise they wouldn't get your money and maybe that's the case - or maybe they would staff differently or something else.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy* 
I also have trouble with this because the waters have never been muddy at all for me or my family. This seems to suggest that paying half price because your kid is 2yrs 1 day old is going to lead the family to steal food or TVs or cars...

See to me...your parents taught you to lie and not pay full admission, and now you're repeating the pattern. I personally believe in going the other way. I'm not picking on you, just saying that this is how I read it - that you are repeating the dishonesty you witnessed as a child.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy* 
You are definitely lucky!! In my area the COL is pretty high & just paying gas & parking to visit somewhere like a museum can eat up any "extra" money we may have had, never mind the actual admission... and the library passes are reduced price not free (so the aquarium, for ex., still costs $22/pp admission with a pass)!!! I wish they had more free/cheap things, luckily we like to hike hehee...

Museum and zoo and science centre admission is a lot here (Toronto) and we either get a year membership or we go to free festivals and things. But yes we have lots of those, plenty of cool things to do.







But totally if we were having to go to higher priced things it would be expensive.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy* 
I guess I don't really believe in blindly following rules. I'm hypoglycemic, for ex., and many places have a no food/drink policy, but if I don't eat something I will get really sick. So I bring my food & eat it very neatly & discretely. There are many many many rules in place in this world & some of them are sensible while others are inconvenient or downright ridiculous. I don't believe "rules were made to be broken" but I do feel we need to understand the rules to be able to follow them or break them.

P.S. Again, I'm just playing devil's advocate with this post, like I said, just thinking things through etc., not trying to condone stealing/lying or anything!!









Yes, but to me an admission price is not a "rule." It's a PRICE. It's like trying to scam a store to get something cheaper.

When it comes to an activity where there's an age limit which I think was the original question I do agree there's possibly a greyer area. And certainly I think if you have a health issue you should eat, either in a washroom or outside or inside if you're sure you understand the reason they've asked for food not to be brought in.


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JL83* 
But you just said that there was a period of time when it was free or low cost. If it took you an hour to drive there, and money is an issue, why didn't you call before going?

I think that lying to avoid paying is straight out theft. It's a terrible example to show children.


I dont own a car. I checked the website obviously, and it said Fridays were pay as you wish. That is why, having planned this for a long time, we went on Friday.
I overlooked that is said 'AFTER 3PM', which in winter makes it not worthwhile as the place closes at 4h30.

It was also pouring rain, so no turning back.

I still think they should give more time to children whose parents dont have money. Most places make one day a week pay as you wish. They could make one day a month 'pay as you wish', so that for those of us where money is tight, we can chose to go on that day.

My kids didnt hear what i said.
Maya


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## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

Crunchy_Mommy - When people choose to have larger families, they choose the expenses that come with that. I don't understand the logic here - so it's ok to lie and get reduced admission because otherwise your large family wouldn't attend? So what about those of us with small families ... if we bring 3 guests, is it then ok to fudge on ages to save admission? And the bottom line really comes down to honesty here - you feel you are justified in lying to get in cheaper. I feel it's morally wrong. I also feel your parents taught you it was ok when you were younger, now you feel it's ok to do with your own family - and that's exactly why I feel it's an important lesson to teach my children about honesty.

It's not the end of the world or the issue I want to spend all day talking about. I think it really comes down to core values - and ours are obviously just different.


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

OT

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 







the Children's Museum here offers $1 admission to families with WIC or Medicaid. It's also located in a poorer neighborhood and gives free memberships to families within 8 blocks.

Thankyou. Most places do offer opportunities for low income families to participate. I think its the mark of a civilized society.

Actually, our CM isnt quite so generous. But if your child goes to headstart they get a cool culture pass (which excludes the major zoo and aquarium), but gives access to many places including the CM. Yo have to have a pass though.


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## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

I just don't get the opinion that museums, zoo's etc should have a 'pay what you want' day. Sure, it would be generous and very nice .. but what if it's not financially possible? I really think many programs simply can not afford to do that once a week!

And while I think it would be nice if more places would do things like that once a month or so, if they can, it also seems kinda entitled to me to expect it, or get irritated about it.

We are far from a rich family!! We work hard and sacrifice to have luxuries like sending ds to science camp and being members of the museum ... no matter how hard times are for us, I don't feel that they owe us anything. I just don't get that attitude.


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mbhf* 
Come on, honestly? Aquariums are expensive to operate. The price of admission is not there to exclude low income children, it's to cover operating expenses.

But it does exclude them.
Do you apply the same logic to food stamps or healthcare? (shouldnt ask really)


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

Food and health care are human rights, in my opinion, or they should be. Going to the aquarium, while a nice thing to do, doesn't fall into that category.

So, for those who thing it's okay to lie to save money - do you extend this to other areas in your life? Like, if you were buying some bulk food items at the store and organic lentils cost twice what the non-organic ones cost, would you feel justified in marking your bag of organic lentils with the bin number of the non-organic ones, because your children deserve to eat organic food, too, even though you can't afford it?

A better examples, maybe: if, say, the person taking tickets at the door to a movie or theatrical show stepped away for a few minutes, would you feel okay about going in without a ticket to see the show without paying? Assume that the show isn't going to sell out and otherwise you feel you can't afford the tickets, so it's not like the theater will be making less money because you're there without paying. Is this also morally okay for some of you?

I guess to be this is about being an honorable person, about doing the right thing even when no one will know. If a business or foundation chooses to charge a certain amount for a service, I think that's well within their rights to do so, and I don't see how that becomes a sort of "Let's sneak in and stick it to The Man" sort of thing, again unless we're talking about basic human rights issues.... and we're not. Aquariums are not entitlements. Disneyland is not an entitlement.


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## baltic_ballet (May 17, 2007)

I am a mum of many and if we can't afford to go somewhere we don't go. I think my kids can still have a wonderful time without spending large amounts of money. Not long ago I made a list of free/cheap things to do in my city and I was amazed how long the list was and it only took a few minutes of research on the internet.

For the more expensive activities we save up and go every two or three years and we take out own lunches to save money.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ann_of_loxley* 
.what 3 or 4 year old do you know who stands right close to you, can hear you talking to the cashier whilst you 'lie' about their age to get in free (and understand all of that?)

Mine! No way would I have gotten away with that with my kids. They have supernatural hearing and both new their ages and birthdates by the time they were 3. Heck, at 3, dd knew her birthdate, her brother's birthdate and my exact age. (This is also the kid who plans her birthday party 6 months in advance!)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy* 
If I were to visit somewhere with non-consumable resources (i.e. museum etc. where there are no actual measurable per-person "costs" to the venue) then they are not "losing" anything if my child doesn't pay.

They're losing the money they pay to keep the utilities going, to staff the place, the money for cleaning, repair of wear and tear, and rent/mortgage. Just because you aren't consuming anything doesn't mean it doesn't cost money to run.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy* 
If we can't afford it & the alternative is to stay home, then the venue is losing out on the $$ my husband & I would have paid. So instead of getting, say, $10/pp & kid free, they are getting NOTHING from us.

They also don't have to provide staff for you, clean the restrooms after you, replace things that wear out because you and your child are there.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy* 
I'm also curious whether those of you that would never lie, would lie about your own age to appear younger etc? (I would not, I see no reason to, but then again, I'm still in my 20's!)

Nope, and I'm in my 40s. I count my change and give back extra (when I get change). I've eaten the money I paid for dd's shoes last year that she wore _once_ (you can't tell) and then outgrew. I could have returned them to Target as new.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy* 
Do you follow every other "rule" to the letter?

No, I don't think anyone does this. I've been known to go a few miles an hour over the speed limit.

But when I was at fault in an accident recently, I admitted it was my inattention that caused it. I didn't go to court to get my ticket reduced. I was guilty. That was a painful $287 that could well have been used to good purpose for our family.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy* 
I am reconsidering my belief that it's OK to lie about my child's age. I grew up with my parents doing that constantly so I never really questioned it.

that is the crux of the problem.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy* 
OK so if every dollar counts & the only way my parents could take us is if they only paid for 5 out of the 6 of us, then the museum is still getting $10/pp ($50) instead of NOTHING. They aren't losing $10, they are gaining $50 because otherwise we wouldn't have gone at all.

But the thing is, for most museums and things, it costs more than $10 a person to run the place and pay for staff. So they ARE losing money.

I too grew up in a family with 5 kids. My parents never lied about our ages. We didn't go nearly as many places as my kids have been. Never went to amusement parks. Never went to the children's museum (I don't even know if they had one then). I remember going to the zoo once or twice, and that was when it was new and 1/2 of my sibs were out of the house. Vacations were camping. We never stayed at hotels. We swam in the lake.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy* 
I guess I don't really believe in blindly following rules. I'm hypoglycemic, for ex., and many places have a no food/drink policy, but if I don't eat something I will get really sick.

that's different -- that's a medical condition that requires you to eat. That's different from me eating. I'm not hypoglycemic. I just get really cranky when I'm hungry. Should I also eat discretely? I choose to go out and come back.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy* 
I don't believe "rules were made to be broken" but I do feel we need to understand the rules to be able to follow them or break them.

But in order to break them, you need to understand how things work and why the rules are in place. Why does the children museum charge for kids over 1? What does it really cost per patron? Why is there no parking in front of the museum, when just stopping there for a little bit 'wouldn't hurt'.

I don't buy the slippery slope argument either, for adults, but I think that we are kidding ourselves that by lying, it's completely benign.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dar* 
Food and health care are human rights, in my opinion, or they should be. Going to the aquarium, while a nice thing to do, doesn't fall into that category. <snip>

I guess to be this is about being an honorable person, about doing the right thing even when no one will know. If a business or foundation chooses to charge a certain amount for a service, I think that's well within their rights to do so, and I don't see how that becomes a sort of "Let's sneak in and stick it to The Man" sort of thing, again unless we're talking about basic human rights issues.... and we're not. Aquariums are not entitlements. Disneyland is not an entitlement.

[/quote]








. Well said.

For those who live in high COL areas where there isn't great community support of arts and museums, I'm sorry. But instead of sneaking in, what about working to remedy that situation? Target sponsors free entrance to our children's museum once a month. Is it packed? You bet. But it's better than not being able to go.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

In the situation described by the original poster, I don't see a problem with this. It sounds like these were more guidelines to help the parents make a decision about the appropriateness of the activity rather than a firm rule about who could participate.

There are a lot of activities here where they require a child to be above a certain age to be a part of it because the parent is not staying and supervising. So in situations like that, I wouldn't lie, and if the 4-6 activity was crowded with children, I'd most likely let that child have our space if necessary, but in general I don't see this as a problem.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I'm surprised people think it's justifiable to lie about a child's age to get them in for free someplace. My understanding is that they have "under 3 free" rules because toddler and babies are often just along for the ride, and it wouldn't be right to charge for a baby asleep in a stroller, so they come up with a number beyond which it's safe to say the child is actively participating (age dependent upon what age level the place is designed for). But for kids of an age where they are absolutely actively participating, it seems only right that they pay. It is in no way comparable to health care or food stamps, which the government disperses to help people who would have trouble with survival otherwise. An aquarium is not something people need to survive.


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

I agree with posters who pointed out that food and health care are essentials and people are entitled to government assistance if they can't otherwise meet their needs. That's pretty basic to a well-functioning society. However, I also include education along with those other essentials. In fairness, I think some attractions - aquariums, zoos, museums, art galleries, nature reserves - serve an educational purpose. It's important that they remain accessible to everyone. Particularly if they are receiving public funding (ie taxpayer dollars). However, I believe that "pay what you like/can" days and subsidized programs for underprivileged children serve this need.

If they aren't accessible, and the venue ought to offer more pay-what-you-can days or similar programs, then it's an issue to be taken up with the venue and government representatives. Just like we don't get to decide the price of food in the supermarket or the fee for a health care professional - or which costs we will or will not pay - we don't get to decide the admission fees for a venue.


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## SunshineJ (Mar 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy* 
I'm also curious whether those of you that would never lie, would lie about your own age to appear younger etc? (I would not, I see no reason to, but then again, I'm still in my 20's!)
Do you always count your change & give back any extra? (I don't count unless it's more than a dollar or two, but I also don't check to make sure they didn't gip me. I figure it all evens out eventually & I don't have time to count change or go back to the cashier over $0.25... which is also why I usually use a credit card







But larger amounts I would count & def. give back any extra)
Do you follow every other "rule" to the letter? Are there other circumstances where you WOULD fudge the truth, maybe vax status or a personal situation or something else where telling the truth might put your family at risk? (I have had several situations where I may have mentally thought up a lie "just in case" though I've never had to actually do it & not sure I could if it came down to it)

I'm just curious, this is a really interesting & thought-provoking thread for me, and I am reconsidering my belief that it's OK to lie about my child's age. I grew up with my parents doing that constantly so I never really questioned it.

I DO give back extra change. I've corrected sales people before when they charge me too little for something, even though yeah, that hurt a little at the time. It's a two way street to me - if I'm willing to say something about being overcharged, then I need to be willing to say something about being undercharged. As for my age, I've never been in the habit of lying about it. I've always looked younger, and it's never been an issue, though I can't imagine that being something important enough to me to ever want to lie about anyway. Honestly for me it has nothing to do with "following the rules". LOL I'm half of the opinion that many rules in this world were put into place by people with nothing better to do. However, for our family it is about acting in an honorable manner. Are there situations in which we would lie? Certainly there are. In your example about vax status, our first priority is the safety and well being of our family, and if keeping our children safe meant lying about their status then you bet we would. But let's be honest here, situations where our family's safety is truely at risk are very rare in our world, and those would certainly be exceptional instances. For a situation that may make things "uncomfortable", no then, we don't lie.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy* 
I guess I don't really believe in blindly following rules. I'm hypoglycemic, for ex., and many places have a no food/drink policy, but if I don't eat something I will get really sick. So I bring my food & eat it very neatly & discretely. There are many many many rules in place in this world & some of them are sensible while others are inconvenient or downright ridiculous. I don't believe "rules were made to be broken" but I do feel we need to understand the rules to be able to follow them or break them.

Well first off I think businesses have to accomodate medical issues by law, though I may be mistaken on that. I'm sure if you went to management and explained the situation most would be happy to make allowances for it to be honest. But again, it's not about rules, it's about doing what is right and honorable. A lot of times that goes with following the rules, but not always. Living isn't an auto-pilot program, it acutally requires some independent thought and the ability to recognize when to ask, when to follow and when to dissent.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dar* 
I guess to be this is about being an honorable person, about doing the right thing even when no one will know. If a business or foundation chooses to charge a certain amount for a service, I think that's well within their rights to do so, and I don't see how that becomes a sort of "Let's sneak in and stick it to The Man" sort of thing, again unless we're talking about basic human rights issues.... and we're not. Aquariums are not entitlements. Disneyland is not an entitlement.

Well said. We've been lucky in that we've been able to take our kids to things that some of their friends haven't gone to. Anyone who has seen me around here knows that we are FAR from well off. Quite strapped actually. We don't lie and fudge to get in places, we save until we have the money or find alternatives or watch for special deals to get admissions. For us, taking the kids places is a higher priority than it is for some of their peers parents, and that's just the way life works. I really think that if you were to have this discussion with people from a truely impoverished area (Africa, Haiti, etc.) they would probably be amazed by how much "more" as a society we keep wanting.


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## benj (Jun 4, 2009)

Nah, my kids are very young.

I haven't read this whole discussion either.

I know my parents lied about our ages. I remember going to the waterpark (or something like one) and my mother told them I was seven, and I very angrily said "No, I'm eight!" And I'm pretty sure she ended up spending more money.


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## mbhf (Jan 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *contactmaya* 
But it does exclude them.
Do you apply the same logic to food stamps or healthcare? (shouldnt ask really)

I suppose it does "exclude" them, yes. The cost of a brand new BMW also "excludes" low income families in that sense. Is that not fair? Does everyone who wants one deserve a brand new BMW? Or at least to drive one for free once a month? Comparing food and health care to visiting an attraction is truly ridiculous, so I won't comment further on that.


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## new2this (Feb 11, 2010)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *contactmaya* 
But it does exclude them.
Do you apply the same logic to food stamps or healthcare? (shouldnt ask really)


Food and healthcare are apples and oranges to museums and other fun places to visit.
I think it is very generous that these places offer things like pay as you wish and should be appreciated even if it isn't in a time frame that you(general) feel is acceptable. Because just as families are struggling in this economy so are businesses. So yeah more people should be grateful rather then have an entitlement attitude. People chose to have kids, with kids come expenses. Doing things like CM and aquariums and like places are not a need but a I would like to do type thing. So no they should not have to alter their prices or anything like that to meet the needs of low income families.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *contactmaya* 
But it does exclude them.
Do you apply the same logic to food stamps or healthcare? (shouldnt ask really)

I don't feel excluded by admission prices nor do I support a sliding scale admission concept. It would be a pain to have to bring proof of income and expenses everywhere in order to get into an establishment. Prices are the same across the board whether you are buying food (a necessity) or admission to a concert or museum (wants). We save up to go somewhere fun, it may take us longer to save up than it would another family but that doesn't mean that we don't have that option. There are also a lot of places in our area that offer year long memberships at dirt cheap prices and there are city funded options to many activities that offer scholarships for low-income families. I don't think economic status is an excuse for lying to get a want met. I also don't like to see people assuming that low-income families feel entitled to lie to get what they want. I don't lie and I my friends don't either and I don't feel that I am owed anything by society or businesses. I new I was going to have to scrimp and make sacrifices until I could graduate and get a good job when I chose to go through with my pregnancy. The museum had nothing to do with me having a child.


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## BlueWolf (Jul 21, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 







Especially when it's like:

Waiter: Do you get the senior discount?
50 year old: No, I'm only 50.
Waiter: Are you *sure*? (looking at the 50 year old like they're suspecting senility has set in)

And then you have people like me who go out to dinner with their dad (who's being a big butt because that's how he is







) and I ask the waiter, "Aren't you going to ask him if he qualifies for the senior citizen discount?" Which he doesn't yet, but it's my personal torture for him to remind him of that every chance I can get.
















As for the OP.... If lying is not a trait I would desire to have in my child, why would I place myself in hypocritical shoes?


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## Mrs. Bratton (Jan 27, 2008)

I never have. I definitely would never do it to save money. Thats just WRONG and thats not how I think of it. I dont expect for my child to get in anywhere or do anything for free. When I do go to a buffet or event where she is free its a bonus. I get really excited b/c I wasnt really expecting it and I dont feel its owed to me like some people here seem to.

I think people who will lie to get things for free just dont appreciate the fact that their kid ever ate/got in for free. Its just greedy and ungrateful. You arent looking at the big picture like the fact that if people keep abusing it the company will no longer be able to afford to offer it. Do you think they ever owed it to you for your kid to get in free? It was a nice, considerate bonus. DONT abuse it so no one ever gets that privilege again.









The age limits for free things arent stupid or arbitrary. The organization wants to be nice and offer free admission to children who are too young to eat much or get much enjoyment out of the experience and who are probably just along for the ride. They have to draw the line somewhere.


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

I have never lied to save money, but on a recent flight when they called for families with children under 5 to pre-board, I was right there in line with my 5.5 year old.


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

When it comes to ethics, I cant have a serious argument with anyone who feels strongly that lying is wrong, but in the same breath thinks its ok to systematically exclude all low income children from cultural and educational places.
And yes I consider all children are *entitled* to be exposed to such things.
I think that education falls into the category of entitlement. This is not the same as entertainment. I would distinguish Disney Land from the zoo. But i would have no real desire to take my kids to disney land, even if i could afford it.
As for the possibility of stealing organic lentils, i dont steal, and on the whole dont lie. But i do have food stamps that pay for organic foods, and are now accepted at many organic outlets.
Anyway, im out.
Maya


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *contactmaya* 
When it comes to ethics, I cant have a serious argument with anyone who feels strongly that lying is wrong, but in the same breath thinks its ok to systematically exclude all low income children from cultural and educational places.

I've heard no one make a sweeping statement like that. There are plenty of cultural and educational places that are free or very low cost (such as your aquarium after 3 pm on Fridays). Most have occasional free days as well, like Free Night of Theater or summer Shakespeare in the Park programs.

Can _every_ child, regardless of family income, have _every_ cultural and educational experience? Nope, of course not. These places aren't charities - most are private businesses. That's life in a capitalist country.

Quote:

As for the possibility of stealing organic lentils, i dont steal, and on the whole dont lie. But i do have food stamps that pay for organic foods, and are now accepted at many organic outlets.
According to my moral compass, you stole the price of one admission for a 4 year old from your aquarium. I understand that you don't see it that way, but that's how I see it.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *contactmaya* 
When it comes to ethics, I cant have a serious argument with anyone who feels strongly that lying is wrong, but in the same breath thinks its ok to systematically exclude all low income children from cultural and educational places.
And yes I consider all children are *entitled* to be exposed to such things.
I think that education falls into the category of entitlement. This is not the same as entertainment. I would distinguish Disney Land from the zoo. But i would have no real desire to take my kids to disney land, even if i could afford it.
As for the possibility of stealing organic lentils, i dont steal, and on the whole dont lie. But i do have food stamps that pay for organic foods, and are now accepted at many organic outlets.
Anyway, im out.
Maya

I sort of agree that kids should be exposed to things. But what the "things" are varies. In my area like I said there are super expensive things, but there are free or low-cost local museums, etc.

Also exposed is a lifetime thing - I don't think at 4 that a child is entitled to go to an aquarium. A fishtank at a store or a local creek can have some of the same impact.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Being entitled to an education doesn't mean being entitled to every thing that has any educational value. How about stealing books? Or art supplies? Or educational toys?


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## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
Being entitled to an education doesn't mean being entitled to every thing that has any educational value. How about stealing books? Or art supplies? Or educational toys?

No kidding! And where do you draw the line? What if I want my child to go to the very best private school in our town, but there is no way we could ever afford it. Does that mean I should lie to get financial assistance?

The attitude of entitlement from some people here is just astounding.


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## Kelly1101 (Oct 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
Being entitled to an education doesn't mean being entitled to every thing that has any educational value. How about stealing books? Or art supplies? Or educational toys?

Excellent point.


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

I'm not sure I want to spend any more time debating this but I will say just a few more things...

I think it's easy to say Never Ever Lie about your kids' ages when you have lots of opportunities available to you... but there are many parts of the country where there aren't museums with free days or free zoo passes from the library. Some people struggle just to pay for the gas to get them to the museum or aquarium in the first place, or the parking fees once they're there. Some of these places receive government funding & therefore tax dollars are being used for something many people are unable (financially) to benefit from. I do feel these places should be more open to lower income families. I don't think that those who fudge ages a bit have an 'attitude of entitlement' -- I think they just want to expose their kids to the same educational/enrichment activities that everyone else gets to enjoy, and struggle to find a way to make that happen. I also think there is a big difference between 'rounding down' by a few days/weeks ("my 2y 1m old is still under 2") and saying your 3 or 4 year old is under 2. But I can definitely see how it makes it difficult to draw the line when you start fudging it by a few days, then a few weeks... and sooner or later it's months or even years. You have to draw the line somewhere... But still, I would personally never fault someone or accuse them of 'stealing' if they lied about a few days difference (especially when the child still is really 'along for the ride' & too young to really participate, even if they are technically a few days/weeks over the age limit).

That being said, I really do feel this thread has changed my view on the issue & I thank all those who've contributed so far, this is a great discussion topic.


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

My kids are so very proud of their ages that they would never let me tell anyone a different age. I'm sure of that. I have no moral compass on this and if you lie here and there to save a buck or two or if you need to get your kid in somewhere that is sort of age restricted well it doesn't bother me and I pass no judgment.


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## SunshineJ (Mar 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy* 
I'm not sure I want to spend any more time debating this but I will say just a few more things...

I think it's easy to say Never Ever Lie about your kids' ages when you have lots of opportunities available to you... but there are many parts of the country where there aren't museums with free days or free zoo passes from the library. Some people struggle just to pay for the gas to get them to the museum or aquarium in the first place, or the parking fees once they're there. Some of these places receive government funding & therefore tax dollars are being used for something many people are unable (financially) to benefit from. I do feel these places should be more open to lower income families. I don't think that those who fudge ages a bit have an 'attitude of entitlement' -- I think they just want to expose their kids to the same educational/enrichment activities that everyone else gets to enjoy, and struggle to find a way to make that happen.

I completely disagree. For the past 18 months *we* are that family you described. And as such there are things that we do not do with our children. However, if it's something we really think they'd enjoy or gain benefit from, then we find a way to do so without lying. For example, while our trash pickup includes recycleables, a local gas station has an aluminum can turn in place that pays you 30 cents a lb I believe it is. We save up cans and ask friends to do the same, and in no time we've got $20 which will cover just about any activity in the area. Not only do our children not see us lying about their ages and learn that that's ok from us, but they also see us find creative ways to earn the money for the fun things we want to do. As DH likes to say, nobody in this country owes us a darn thing, so we work to get what we want. If someone does give us reduced admission or a free day (which we also watch for) then that's a generous gesture that's much appreciated and not something that we expect.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

There are many educational opportunities unavailable to me because I moved from the Chicago area to southern Illinois. Many, many people don't have aquariums (aquaria?) available to them. There are many things that impact what any given person can do.

Have you suggested to these places that they consider charging half or giving the senior rate to people who have EBT cards? Show an EBT card, pay half price? Something like that. I think it's a good idea to discount things based on income, I just don't like the idea of lying to get a discount.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

The really great thing about giving a discount to families with WIC/medicaid/ebt is that the income checking is only done once and it's very discreet for those families (according to my friend who had the WIC discount).

I thought of another thing that good communities have. Community centers. Growing up the parks and rec program (in PDX) would have a few classes offered at a much lower cost ($10 or even free vs $40) so that lower-income kids could try things out. They'd also have scholarships that you could ask for. The activities director at our nearest center even asked my mom to send families to her if Mom found out they couldn't pay for things.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Really, if you're going to teach your child not to lie, that's something you should model or risk being seen as a hypocrite. If you think there is a real reason why the rule shouldn't apply to the child? Speak with someone in charge. If they refuse to bend, accept it graciously and move on.

I've had times when my kids were over the kids' menu age, but wanted something from it. I've simply asked - I don't recall ever having an issue. Admissions? If we can't afford it? We don't go. If we can, I make sure that my kids' ages are given accurately.

As for the comment made about Senior prices, etc. I work retail, and we do have a senior day, when they get a discount. We're not permitted to ask - because too many people get offended. (I have had some of my girls yelled at for daring to think someone was old enough for a senior discount.) Then, the ones who didn't think to ask come back and are all offended that we didn't just give it to them! There's no winning.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

This thread presented a variety of very interesting opinions. Thanks to all who took the time to respectfully debate this issue.

Since the same feelings seem to be being re-hashed at this point, I am going to close the thread to further posting.

If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to PM me.









TiredX2


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