# Cow milk - good or bad?



## minkajane (Jun 5, 2005)

DS rarely has cow milk. I'm wary of the antibiotics and hormones in it. He's switching to a new daycare and I know they're going to give me grief about it. I'm also finding myself concerned that he's not getting enough fat in his diet, especially lately since he's been on this apple/cracker kick and that's all he'll eat half the time.

So lay it on me - is cow milk good for toddlers or bad?


----------



## Attached Mama (Dec 4, 2005)

IMO a small amount of dairy is good if one is not lactose intolerant- but only if it's raw organic dairy. I would never do non- organic because of the great amount of pesticide residue in it and the growth hormones too.

Raw dairy is as God/nature intended it to be. Did you know if you feed a calf pasturized dairy they will get sick? It has been heated to such a high temp that hte nutrients in it are altered and there are no enzymes (which help with digestion) left in it. That's a simple explanation of it - haven't read up on it in a while so a bit rusty on the info.

As for fats, fish oil supplements which are rich in omega 3's which are lacking from most people's diets are really good. Flax seed oil if cold pressed and very fresh is also good. They make little gummy fish oil supplements for kids - you can find them in any health food store.

Also nuts, espec walnuts, avocados, olive oil, and even eggs are all good sources of goood fats.


----------



## minkajane (Jun 5, 2005)

Probably should have mentioned that we're vegetarian, so fish oil is out. Besides, DS is allergic to strawberry, which every single gummy thing I've ever seen has in it.

Will work on the nuts and things more, thanks!


----------



## Attached Mama (Dec 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *minkajane* 
Probably should have mentioned that we're vegetarian, so fish oil is out. Besides, DS is allergic to strawberry, which every single gummy thing I've ever seen has in it.

Will work on the nuts and things more, thanks!

Actually I am vegetarian too - but we were taking flax oil and besides it tasting disgusting it wasn't helping DD's dry skin. So I felt I had no other recourse but to do the fish oil. KInda gross I know - I don't eat any other fish, flesh, animals etc. Not sure what else I could do tho. I have another friend who is veg who does the same thing - she's allergic to flax seeds.


----------



## vgnmama2keller (Apr 27, 2006)

Cows milk is for cows. It is designed to bulk up a baby cow not a human. It isn't good for our systems and we nutritionaly don't need it. Your child can get the best food through your breastmilk. if you don't breastfeed your child can get fat from so many sources, olives, flax oil, organic canola oil, avocadoes, nuts, sunflower butter, and so on.

would you drink the milk of a dog? a giraffe? a lion? it is just that in our country we have been led to believe that a cow or goat is better nutritionally for our bodies than our own milk and that people won't thrive without it. This is the wonderfully smart work of the dairy lobbyists and company.

You really don't need it nor does your child. besides all that the poor mama cows have their newborns ripped away from them and they both cry out for each other- imagine if this was you and your child right after giving birth.

Come on over to the veggie thread and I am sure you will get some wonderful ideas about not serving cows milk. Good luck.


----------



## Cru's Daddy (Nov 13, 2006)

Nothing wrong with drinking cow's milk,sure its meant for Calfs but nutritionally Raw Cow's milk has many benifits for fighting certain disease.

And yes go for Mother's milk,but mother's milk is not avaliable for everyone.


----------



## rareimer (Oct 20, 2003)

another great source of fat is coconut oil.


----------



## vermontgirl (Aug 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vgnmama2keller* 
Cows milk is for cows. It is designed to bulk up a baby cow not a human. It isn't good for our systems and we nutritionaly don't need it. Your child can get the best food through your breastmilk. if you don't breastfeed your child can get fat from so many sources, olives, flax oil, organic canola oil, avocadoes, nuts, sunflower butter, and so on.

would you drink the milk of a dog? a giraffe? a lion? it is just that in our country we have been led to believe that a cow or goat is better nutritionally for our bodies than our own milk and that people won't thrive without it. This is the wonderfully smart work of the dairy lobbyists and company.

You really don't need it nor does your child. besides all that the poor mama cows have their newborns ripped away from them and they both cry out for each other- imagine if this was you and your child right after giving birth.

Come on over to the veggie thread and I am sure you will get some wonderful ideas about not serving cows milk. Good luck.

This is what I was going to say. I really dont think humans should comsume cows milk or products from it.


----------



## guestmama9916 (Jun 24, 2006)

I agree that raw dairy is the best way if you are going to consume cow's milk. My son's daycare serves organic milk which I'm OK with. He doesn't drink much of it at daycare and the caregivers do not push it. At home he gets about 12 oz of raw cow's milk a day, sometimes more if its a weekend. We've been on raw dairy for about 3 months. DS is thriving/growing, has more energy (even though he was energetic before!) and he doesn't get sick. I haven't been sick with any of the colds going around either and I only drink a small glass of it a day. We do raw milk for the vitamins that are in the fat. Pasteurized milk's vitamins are greatly diminshed plus all the other living components of the milk such as enzymes, good bacteria, etc are killed. If you can't do raw milk, try Kerrygold butter. Its not raw but its a high quality grass-fed butter that is high in vitamins A and D. I have no problem getting my DS to eat butter. I just melt some on popcorn or on whatever he's eating for dinner. Coconut oil as another poster mentioned is a very good source of fat for growing kids too but it doesn't have the vitamins. It does support the immune system and metabolism though. Someone else mentioned eggs - if they're the free range kind, they'll be a good source of Omega 3's. The yolk should be bright orange, not yellow like most commercial eggs, for optimum nutrition. HTH

Kim


----------



## minkajane (Jun 5, 2005)

How would I go about getting raw milk? I live in Dayton, OH, if that helps.


----------



## egarcia76 (Aug 1, 2006)

I personally don't think cow's milk is suitable for human consumption. As far as your daycare giving you grief, it's YOUR child. My dcp is very aware of mine & dd's vegan lifestyle. Sure, it's taken a little bit of education & enforcement on my behalf -- and there were some honest mistakes in the beginning, like offering her jello-- BUT, they gladly give dd the soy &/or rice milk I provide while giving the other children cow's milk. And I don't get grief, never have. I was upfront about the veganism from the beginning when I enrolled her @ 6 wks old.

However, you must trust your instincts. I guess if you do end up feeding your dc cow's milk, organic would be the way to go. Just my .02.


----------



## pampered_mom (Mar 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *minkajane* 
How would I go about getting raw milk? I live in Dayton, OH, if that helps.

www.realmilk.com has a listing available by state.


----------



## gardenmommy (Nov 23, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vgnmama2keller* 
Cows milk is for cows. It is designed to bulk up a baby cow not a human. It isn't good for our systems and we nutritionaly don't need it. Your child can get the best food through your breastmilk. if you don't breastfeed your child can get fat from so many sources, olives, flax oil, organic canola oil, avocadoes, nuts, sunflower butter, and so on.

would you drink the milk of a dog? a giraffe? a lion? it is just that in our country we have been led to believe that a cow or goat is better nutritionally for our bodies than our own milk and that people won't thrive without it. This is the wonderfully smart work of the dairy lobbyists and company.

You really don't need it nor does your child. besides all that the poor mama cows have their newborns ripped away from them and they both cry out for each other- imagine if this was you and your child right after giving birth.

Come on over to the veggie thread and I am sure you will get some wonderful ideas about not serving cows milk. Good luck.


Depending on where I was, I would most certainly drink milk from a giraffe, water buffalo, etc. I think that milk from other species can be a very good addition to the human diet, esp. for picky young children who may be at risk for consuming insufficient calories/nutrition.

Animal milks have been used in the human diet for many thousands of years with no adverse effects. It is a traditional food.

I think it's important to get your milk as close to the source as possible: ideally it should be raw. Cultured milk (yogurt, kefir, creme fraiche, raw milk cheese, etc.) is much easier to digest.


----------



## tboroson (Nov 19, 2002)

I don't think any human being needs milk. Clearly, our society survived for milennia before figuring out how to milk other species. Much of the world thrives with little to no dairy in their diets.

That doesn't mean that I think all humans should, therefore, abstain from drinking it. It's a culturally important food product, and has incredible emotional and social connections that are hard to deny. Further, while it's certainly not the "perfect" food that the dairy industry would have us believe (especially in the horribly damaged form they sell to us, pasteurized and homogenized), it is a nutritionally dense food. In our current environment of processed, severely nutritionally diminished foods (i.e. juice and crackers), I don't think that it's wise to disparage one of the few nutritionally dense foods that remains readily and inexpensively available to us just because it's imperfect.

My opinion is, while cow's/goat's milk is not *neccisary* for anyone, the one group that most benefits from it is toddlers who are not still nursing. I believe that toddlers need a lot of cholesterol, efa's and minerals. If you're still nursing your son, I don't think he needs supplemental milk at all. He gets plenty of good stuff from your breastmilk. I don't feel it would hurt to give him some, unless he turns out to be sensitive to it; but I don't think he needs it. For a toddler who is weaned, though, milk is a very effective way to deliver those factors, especially within the constraints of a vegetarian diet.


----------



## minkajane (Jun 5, 2005)

He is still nursing, but I think he's headed towards weaning. He usually only nurses once a day now, if at all. I'm leaving this weekend for a two-week business trip and I have a terrible feeling that he won't be interested in nursing when I return. *sniff*


----------



## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

I think raw, organic milk can be a good addition to the diet (esp if you have a picky eater). Ds can only have goat milk and I am not supposed to have any so I put up with this a lot.

Don't be bullied by your day care provider. If you don't want your kid eating something then that is your right and be firm. You could also send sncks with dc. That is what I do with ds when he is babysat so they don't even have to think about it.

Jen


----------



## rachelagain (Jun 15, 2006)

I think some amount of Dairy is good, but not as much as the government recommends. I think milk has it's place- like Gardenmommy said, it's been around for thousands of years- in the Bible it talks about "a land flowing w/ milk and honey"... if you eat too much honey you get sick, but it has alot of great stuff in it- I think it's the same w/ milk.
We grew up on raw milk-- the neighbor had a cow, it was great. My mom would make butter with the cream and everything-- I think that's the way to go.


----------



## guestmama9916 (Jun 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pamered_mom* 
www.realmilk.com has a listing available by state.

Realmilk.com is a great resource for info too. Download the powerpoint presentation for an eye opening look at raw milk versus pasteurized milk. I found my raw milk source through a Yahoo group. Search Yahoo groups for key words like WAP or WAPF which is the weston a price foundation - a big supporter of raw dairy. You can also search on key words like dairy or milk or your city/state. You can also use google to look for farms near you that have websites. My farm has a website which helped.

Kim


----------



## 4lilfarmers (Feb 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gardenmommy* 
Depending on where I was, I would most certainly drink milk from a giraffe, water buffalo, etc. I think that milk from other species can be a very good addition to the human diet, esp. for picky young children who may be at risk for consuming insufficient calories/nutrition.

Animal milks have been used in the human diet for many thousands of years with no adverse effects. It is a traditional food.

I think it's important to get your milk as close to the source as possible: ideally it should be raw. Cultured milk (yogurt, kefir, creme fraiche, raw milk cheese, etc.) is much easier to digest.

I totally agree with you! Raw and cultured dairy in moderation... we have a very loved family cow for our milk...(and we share the milk with her calf!) but if we lived somewhere else--who knows, maybe it'd be a giraffe


----------



## Cru's Daddy (Nov 13, 2006)

One thing we must all remember is that nutrients are absorbed differently from person to person,too much of one type of food might work well for another but be counter productive for another.
Nutrients work in groups,they all need eachother for many growth functions of the body,an example is drinking calcium enriched low fat milk,the chances of absorbing the calcium needed from that type of milk is very slim unless there is a good presence of fat soluble vitamins A D E K
A good way, is to determine what foods are best suited for your metabolism,and if this means that dairy products are ok than so be it,Raw milk as stated has many nutrients,why not consume more good nutrients,especially with the growing fear mongering towards Fats.

And remember True Vitamin A absorbtion can only be produced in the presence of Vit D


----------



## momto l&a (Jul 31, 2002)

Raw milk









As to the day care they shouldn't give you any grief over what you want YOUR child fed IMO.


----------



## roadfamily6now (Sep 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gardenmommy* 
Depending on where I was, I would most certainly drink milk from a giraffe, water buffalo, etc. I think that milk from other species can be a very good addition to the human diet, esp. for picky young children who may be at risk for consuming insufficient calories/nutrition.

Animal milks have been used in the human diet for many thousands of years with no adverse effects. It is a traditional food.

I think it's important to get your milk as close to the source as possible: ideally it should be raw. Cultured milk (yogurt, kefir, creme fraiche, raw milk cheese, etc.) is much easier to digest.

this one I agree with.


----------



## G-Mama (Sep 2, 2004)

"Animal milks have been used in the human diet for many thousands of years with no adverse effects."

Interesting interpretation of the science....

from www.drfuhrman.com January 05 newsletter

Milk: Does It Do A Body Good?
Recent research sheds a very bad light on dairy consumption.

Parkinson's disease
Recent studies have shown that men who consume more dairy
products and who are big milk- drinkers have a higher occurrence
of Parkinson's disease. Honglei Chen,M.D.,of Harvard University reported his findings at the annual meeting of the American College of Nutrition
(December 2004) and presented a few other studies, one of which
was the Parkinson's Disease Honolulu Study, that showed the
same association. The interesting finding was that it was not the fat
in milk and dairy that were implicated. Usually, the high saturated
fat content of dairy is blamed for its disease risk. But in this case,
according to Chen,fat was "out of the picture."Calcium and added vitamin D also were unrelated. That means something else in dairy is the culprit.The relationship between Parkinson's and milk consumption has been suspected
for decades(1)and was first reported by researchers a few years ago.
Chen's and other recent prospective studies have confirmed the earlier,less definitive findings.

Heart disease
A related recent finding is that deaths from heart disease also are strongly associated with milk drinking in adulthood.Of particular interest is that (as is the case with Parkinson's) the association is with the non-fat portion of milk. Non-fat and skim milk consumption shows the same association as that of whole milk.Researchers
found that heart disease death is strongly associated with circulat-
ing antibodies against milk.These antibodies are found to bind to
human lymphocytes and platelets, thus increasing the likelihood of
clot formation. The researchers also concluded that the non-fat
aspects of milk have atherogenic effects (plaque-building) both biochemical and immunological,and the simultaneous attack from all these directions explains why milk was found to have such a strong effect on death rate.(2)

Ovarian cancer
A recent study of 61,000 women found that those who consumed more than 2 glasses of milk per day had twice the risk of serous ovarian cancer than women who consumed fewer than two glasses.The risk of those who drank
two glasses a day was double that of women who rarely drank milk.(3) Lactose in milk seemed to be the primary culprit.Again this larger study confirms earlier studies with the same findings.

References:
1. Chen H, Zhang SM, Hernan MA, Willett
WC, Ascherio A.Diet and Parkinson's dis-
ease: a potential role of dairy products in men.
Ann Neurol2002 Dec;52(6):793-801.
2. Moss M, Freed D. The cow and the coronary:
epidemiology, biochemistry and immunology.
Int J Cardiol2003;87(2-3):203-216.
3. Larsson SC, Bergkvist L, Wolk A. Milk and
lactose intakes and ovarian cancer risk in the
Swedish Mammography Cohort. Am J Clin
Nutr 2004;80(5):1353-1357.


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

It's hard to know how much of the ill-effects of milk these days is caused by the processing and animal husbandry practices as opposed to the milk itself.

A century ago people used exclusive milk diets to fight disease. One doctor, Dr Charles Sanford Porter, treated thousands of patients over several decades with exclusive milk diets of at least a month in duration.


----------



## G-Mama (Sep 2, 2004)

GaleForce-

went to that site... correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't find any scientific journals/articles sited there. Am I missing something?


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *G-Mama* 
GaleForce-

went to that site... correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't find any scientific journals/articles sited there. Am I missing something?

No. It's a book from 100 years ago. Thousands of people did it and claim health cures. Interesting factoid given the current research on milk. That's all. The Porter book which is not on the page goes into more detail.


----------



## gardenmommy (Nov 23, 2001)

Gale Force is right. Milk as we know it today is nothing like traditional milk. Traditionally, milk was consumed either straight from the animal, or was cultured. It was not pasteurized, homogenized, fat-reduced, stored, shipped, bottled in plastic, etc.

Generations of people have consumed raw milk and thrived. I think we are seeing the problems with dairy today because of the extreme processing milk undergoes before it is consumed. No wonder people associate so many problems with milk.


----------



## momto l&a (Jul 31, 2002)

Also what the cows grazed on 100's of years ago is different than the depleted soils of today that are chemical laden.


----------



## Chicharronita (Oct 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force* 
No. It's a book from 100 years ago. Thousands of people did it and claim health cures. Interesting factoid given the current research on milk. That's all. The Porter book which is not on the page goes into more detail.

Dr. John Crewe, one of the founders of the Mayo Foundation (which became the Mayo Clinic), wrote "Raw Milk Cures Many Diseases," an article that was published in Certified Milk Magazine in 1929. He opened a sanitarium that was devoted to treating patients using the "milk cure." Of course, the only milk available in those days was unpasteurized and from grassfed cows and goats.

http://www.realmilk.com/milkcure.html


----------



## Chicharronita (Oct 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gardenmommy* 
Depending on where I was, I would most certainly drink milk from a giraffe, water buffalo, etc. I think that milk from other species can be a very good addition to the human diet, esp. for picky young children who may be at risk for consuming insufficient calories/nutrition.

Did you see the article about the world's oldest woman who recently passed away at age 116? Her family credits her longevity to drinking fresh donkey's milk.

http://tinyurl.com/ynxm28


----------



## rareimer (Oct 20, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tboroson* 
I don't think any human being needs milk. Clearly, our society survived for milennia before figuring out how to milk other species. Much of the world thrives with little to no dairy in their diets.

That doesn't mean that I think all humans should, therefore, abstain from drinking it. It's a culturally important food product, and has incredible emotional and social connections that are hard to deny. Further, while it's certainly not the "perfect" food that the dairy industry would have us believe (especially in the horribly damaged form they sell to us, pasteurized and homogenized), it is a nutritionally dense food. In our current environment of processed, severely nutritionally diminished foods (i.e. juice and crackers), I don't think that it's wise to disparage one of the few nutritionally dense foods that remains readily and inexpensively available to us just because it's imperfect.

My opinion is, while cow's/goat's milk is not *neccisary* for anyone, the one group that most benefits from it is toddlers who are not still nursing. I believe that toddlers need a lot of cholesterol, efa's and minerals. If you're still nursing your son, I don't think he needs supplemental milk at all. He gets plenty of good stuff from your breastmilk. I don't feel it would hurt to give him some, unless he turns out to be sensitive to it; but I don't think he needs it. For a toddler who is weaned, though, milk is a very effective way to deliver those factors, especially within the constraints of a vegetarian diet.


you know, i often struggle with the whole dairy thing, but this post really makes so much sense, and is essentially my feelings on the subject. thank you for putting it so eloquently!


----------



## G-Mama (Sep 2, 2004)

A couple of comments...

First, I'm not sure a "medical" study from 1929 is a valid support in favor of milk especially in light of much more recent studies on saturated fat.

Second, raw milk has the added risk of infectious disease such as listeria- obviously a risk for pregnant women and small children.

Third, raw or pasteurized, you're still consuming a product that is high in saturated fat and thus putting yourself at risk for heart disease.

Do I think milk is some evil food to be avoided at all costs? No. But I don't think regular consumption is healthy and it certainly isn't some miracle food. (unless, maybe, you don't have access to any other food, which certainly isn't the case in this country.)

I would have doubted all this, too, a couple of years ago. I mean, 'milk, it does a body good" right? But I've since done a lot of research about dairy products and wanted to pass on some of the surprising things I found out. Hope I'm not stepping on anyone's toes. I really don't mean to.


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

G-mama -- it's true. We don't *really* know. Studies are not designed to test the kinds of things that are being discussed in this thread.

The link is not to a medical study at all, but to a type of diet that doctors used 100 years ago and they had success curing a lot of diseases. If milk is really that bad, it does seem strange that you can live on it for a month (or much longer in some cases as described by the doctors) and actually get rid of your autoimmune diseases and a host of other conditions. Porter treated people for 30 years with the diet -- thousands of people. Apparently he documented each case in some detail. I wonder where that documentation is now. It probably no longer exists.

Given this human experience, even though much of it is 100 years old, don't you think we should ask whether there are benefits to drinking the type of milk people drank 100 years ago? Current studies on saturated fat or on milk are not designed to address this question, so we can argue until we're blue in the face, but there is no evidence either way.

You're not stepping on my toes, pass on the information about dairy. It's all interesting.


----------



## marieandchris (Jun 6, 2005)

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=546187


----------



## momto l&a (Jul 31, 2002)

I read of a study from over 100 years ago that the most easily digested milk is donkey milk.

I have milked a donkey but never tasted it.


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momto l&a* 
I read of a study from over 100 years ago that the most easily digested milk is donkey milk.

I have milked a donkey but never tasted it.









Where? Tell us!


----------



## momto l&a (Jul 31, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force* 







Where? Tell us!

About 5 years ago I had a jenny who had her baby in the dead of winter and the baby didn't do well so we brought it into the house and I milked the jenny to force feed the baby.

It rather like milking a goat with short nipples except the donkey is much larger.


----------



## G-Mama (Sep 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force* 
G-mama -- it's true. We don't *really* know. Studies are not designed to test the kinds of things that are being discussed in this thread.

The link is not to a medical study at all, but to a type of diet that doctors used 100 years ago and they had success curing a lot of diseases. If milk is really that bad, it does seem strange that you can live on it for a month (or much longer in some cases as described by the doctors) and actually get rid of your autoimmune diseases and a host of other conditions. Porter treated people for 30 years with the diet -- thousands of people. Apparently he documented each case in some detail. I wonder where that documentation is now. It probably no longer exists.

Given this human experience, even though much of it is 100 years old, don't you think we should ask whether there are benefits to drinking the type of milk people drank 100 years ago? Current studies on saturated fat or on milk are not designed to address this question, so we can argue until we're blue in the face, but there is no evidence either way.

You're not stepping on my toes, pass on the information about dairy. It's all interesting.

Glad no toe stepping is going on!









I think, however, that the 100 year old research that you're refering to is coming from the dentist that the Weston-Price Foundation cites. From what I've gathered, his research was spotty at best.
Here is Dr. T. Colin Campbell addressing this issue at the 2006 Healthy Lifestyle Expo:





And here's the article to which he refers:
http://www.vegsource.com/articles2/c...onse_print.htm

I think he does a pretty thorough job of discrediting this 'science'. And I believe he even addresses the depleted soil issue (although I would have liked him to write more about this.)

I'm curious, too, though. There does seem to be a lot of conflicting work out there- I just happen to think, thus far, that a much stronger case has been made in favor of limiting animal products.

There's also this which was interesting:
http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives...tml#discussion

Ok. My face is now very blue.


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *G-Mama* 
I think, however, that the 100 year old research that you're refering to is coming from the dentist that the Weston-Price Foundation cites. From what I've gathered, his research was spotty at best.

I was referring to the books referenced on the milk diet website. Those are not "research" as much as we know it today as much as they are self-help how-to type of books based on the life's work of several doctors. One doctor wrote one in the mid-1800s, another in the early 1900s that went through at least 10 editions, and then the MacFadden book. Hippocrates was apparently the first person of any reknown to use the milk diet to cure disease.

I don't know what any of the milk books have to do with Weston Price. Weston Price was big on butter because of one of the properties of butter fat, but I'm not aware of him otherwise promoting exclusive milk diets. In fact, the milk diet books discuss using skim milks for the milk diet which would effectively cut out the key property that Price liked so much.


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momto l&a* 
About 5 years ago I had a jenny who had her baby in the dead of winter and the baby didn't do well so we brought it into the house and I milked the jenny to force feed the baby.

It rather like milking a goat with short nipples except the donkey is much larger.









So you brought the baby in the house not the mom, right? Just checking.









You know you are in the presence of an expert when she is describing the nipple size.


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *G-Mama* 
I think, however, that the 100 year old research that you're refering to is coming from the dentist that the Weston-Price Foundation cites. From what I've gathered, his research was spotty at best.

The research is actually interesting. The open question is to what degree it suggests that animal products are necessary in the human diet. He did not use norms of modern science to collect (possibly) and analyze (possibly) his data, so it brings up a lot of questions. I say "possibly" because we don't really know from the book. Certain parts of his design are not made explicit and that's the problem.


----------



## Chicharronita (Oct 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force* 
If milk is really that bad, it does seem strange that you can live on it for a month (or much longer in some cases as described by the doctors) and actually get rid of your autoimmune diseases and a host of other conditions.

I wish I could remember where I read it, but I think I read that diabetics could live solely on raw milk for the rest of their lives without having to use insulin (it was one of the problems the old-time doctors treated with the raw milk diet). This is interesting, because aren't the studies now saying that regular factory-farm milk may cause or aggravate diabetes?

I don't know if this has been posted before (sorry if it has), but here's a link to a report that was submitted to the L.A. County Board of Supervisors when they were considering lifting the ban to sell raw milk. Because of it, they voted to lift it. It contains a lot of information about raw milk, a lot of it prepared by Dr. William Douglass, author of "The Milk Book: The Milk of Human Kindness is Not Pasteurized."

"SUPPLEMENTAL REPORT IN FAVOR OF RAW MILK"

http://www.karlloren.com/aajonus/p15.htm

I would like to write more, but my dd is trashing my office, so I gotta run.







:


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Thanks for the link and reminding me that I haven't responded to your email







:

The milk doctors used clabbered milk for diabetes because of the lower sugar content. Regular milk would be too high in sugar.


----------



## Chicharronita (Oct 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force* 
Thanks for the link and reminding me that I haven't responded to your email







:

It's okay! I'm glad to be able to post here again, although my dh is now trying to convince me to paint the kitchen (Last week I went through a three-day ordeal of washing, priming, and painting the walls of our living room. NEVER AGAIN!).

Quote:

The milk doctors used clabbered milk for diabetes because of the lower sugar content. Regular milk would be too high in sugar.
That makes sense. I finally made clabbered milk successfully last month, instead of extremely sour, horribly-tasting milk. I just wasn't using a high enough temperature. It is delicious!


----------



## MyLittleWonders (Feb 16, 2004)

Not to hijack, but how do you successfully make clabbered milk?


----------



## Chicharronita (Oct 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
Not to hijack, but how do you successfully make clabbered milk?

I had read that you can leave raw milk out overnight (in a closed mason jar), but that's not true. It works best in a warm oven, at least at my house.


----------

