# My cry for help...



## TeaBag (Dec 18, 2003)

It's taken me two Mike's Limeades to get the guts to type this message.







:

I know this doesn't belong in TAO< (Irish, I'm sorry), but I can't figure out where it *should* go. GD, maybe, but it isn't really a discipline issue...The Childhood Years, possibly. Parenting Challenges...who knows....and just to let you know, this is going to get long, so grab a cup of tea, coffee, beer, whatever.

My ds attacked me tonight. I don't mean verbally. I mean, the child assaulted me. We went to town to run to Target and grab a couple of things and then ds had hockey. They asked for McD's and I said yes, so we went through the drive through on the way to hockey. Ds got angry because the girls weren't being quiet. He was trying to say something, and while he had my full attention, they were still talking and he was angry. So he started yelling. We are on the way to hockey at that point. I asked him to please not shout in the car and that it wasn't necessary for them to stop talking, I could hear him just fine. He wasn't happy with that, and kept yelling louder and louder at them. I told him that this wasn't a respectful way to treat them and to please stop or we would go home instead of going to hockey. At which point, he screamed "SHUT UP!" We were just getting ready to turn into the ice rink at that point and I kept driving. ( a little background, ds has been turning violent with everyone recently, he hit one sister and kicked and shoved the other one just yesterday...yes, I am aware that we are dealing with massive anger issues, he is seeing a therapist...so please don't lecture me on that. ) He lost it. He flew out of his carseat and started clawing at the back of my head. I pulled over to the side of the road and told him that I wasn't driving anywhere until he was in his carseat as "Safety Rules Are Not Negotiable" (a key phrase in our house). He continued to scream and hit me. I went to the back of the van and put him in his carseat and tried to buckle him in. He kept hitting and screaming at me. I pinned both his arms, and he started kicking me. I realized at this point that he was completely out of control and he needed to be at home in a safe place to have a fit. So I told him to get in his carseat. I started driving and I realized that he thought he was getting his way because when I didn't go back towards the ice rink, he flipped again. He got out of his seat again and started hitting me in the back of the head, yelling "I hate you, you stupid woman, I wish you were dead" over and over and over again. He grabbed my hair and yanked and I almost hit another car head on. I was in the process of pulling over before he did that, but at that point, I just slammed on the brakes and shoved him back so I could at least see and pulled over to the side of the road. He's still screaming "I hate you" and "I wish you were dead" He starts to get out of the van, and tries to run across a busy road at dust. I freaked out and picked him up and put him in the van. Just to be clear, I was NOT gentle with him. He proceeded to hit me and shove and kick me. I pinned his arms with my hand and tried to get on his level to talk to him and he lunged at me with his teeth bared, he tried to bite my face. So I held him with my hands, and he bit my hands over and over and over, to leave teeth marks and bruises are now appearing.

Now, I'm screaming and crying and not having any idea what to do with him. I can't let him continue like this. I can't calm him down. I can't help him. The girls are witnessing all of this. I called his godfather. I told him that ds is completely out of control and what sort of things he was doing....I was not coherent, but I got the point across. He just said "put him on the phone" I held the phone to his ear with one hand, while he continued to bite me with the other while kicking me in the stomach. Within seconds, he wasn't screaming at me...he stopped biting me...he let go of me and sat back in his carseat. He buckled himself in. And then he said "okay, bye" and looked at me. I shut the door and put the phone to my ear. His godfather said "are you okay?" And I told him that I thought I would be okay and he said "I told him that if he didn't behave like a perfect angel, that I was coming over there to whip him when you got home, whether you approve of it or not. That he will NOT treat you like that" and I was just dumbfounded....this is the man who has *never* laid a hand on his own son. Never. Ever. He asked me to call when we got home to let him know we were safe.

Ds and I have talked about it. He says that he understands why he cannot behave like that. But I asked him if the only reason he calmed down was because he was afraid of his godfather and he looked really sad and nodded.

I just don't know how to process this. I have talked to a very good friend on the phone about it tonight....but I can't get a hold of dh and I am just so shaken and hurt and angry and scared. He literally could have killed us. I could so easily have hit that other car head on.....injuring or killing the people in both cars....my hand hurts, my head hurts. I feel like I've been beaten. By my 7 yr old. But he's seven. He's a baby. He's MY baby. I dont' know. I just can't process this. I'm heartbroken. And I don't know what to do.


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## TeaghansMama (Jul 1, 2005)

oh Mama. I couldn't read and not respond. I have no experience with this and no advice. But my thoughts are with you and I am wishing all the hugs and healing you need come your way. Take care of yourself, Mama.


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## PuppyFluffer (Mar 18, 2002)

Wow, I can only imagine the shock you must be feeling! What a disturbing and scary thing to experience.

I have no experience with children of this age or with aggression of this magnitude. I hope you can get the help for him that he needs and that you can find the support you need to help you process this terrible experience.


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## PatchyMama (Dec 6, 2002)

mama i dont have any advice but i didnt want to read and not post.







I hope other mamas can offer you more than just a hug.


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## famousmockngbrd (Feb 7, 2003)

I don't have any advice, but I'm sorry that happened to you. Are you going to talk to his therapist about it?


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## tinybutterfly (May 31, 2004)

I didn't want to read and not respond. I have to go. I just want you to know I read.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

It sounds like he needs more help than he's been getting.


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

I have no advice but wanted to tell you how sorry I am you are all going through this.







's to you. You and your son will be in my thoughts. Much healing to your family!!!!


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

: for your family during this time....I am so sorry that he attacked you.









I wish I was there to give you a real hug...


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## Jilian (Jun 16, 2003)

No advice, just sending some love your way


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## chickadee79 (Jan 5, 2005)

I'm so sorry you are going through this. I wish I could offer more.







:


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## joycenjackiesmom (Sep 4, 2004)

How scary--I am so sorry this happened to you and your family. I want you to know that I do know other people who have been through events like this please know you are not alone--although it does not make it any better for you. You will be in my thoughts.


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## 2crazykids (Jun 19, 2005)

so sorry to hear this... a few issues come to mind:

1. I know from your pp's that you and your DH have been going through lots and lots of stuff lately. Kids cannot process emotions that adults can and they express this in different ways. Anger can manifest in many many many forms, i.e. overeating, self-mutilation, not eating, violence against loved ones.

2. Nutrition? What's his diet like? Lots of candy/McD's? I am not being judgemental here. I promise. I notice that when my kids eat crappy food (which has been then case lately with the holidays)they act toootalllly different. Scary.

3. You're safe. Kids hurt or express violence toward parents or other close loved ones b/c they know that you won't stop loving them. Is this his way of expressing his anger or is he using his knowledge and trust of you and trying to maipulate you? He most likely is doing this subconciously....Maybe.

Having said all that...

1. Discuss this with his/your therapist.

2. Keep a log of his outbursts: time of day, foods he ate, context of anger, location, etc. Be as detailed as possible. Look for patterns.

Hope things get better soon!


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## srain (Nov 26, 2001)

While his behavior was obviously completely unacceptable, it sounds like he desperately needs space and attention away from his sisters. Good luck to your family-


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## frowningfrog (Aug 25, 2005)

I have no advice but I couldnt read this and not at least send this


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I'm glad everyone is safe. You need someone to teach you a safe hold for him in case he goes off like that again. I've worked some with special needs kids but I've never had to personally do it- seen it done though. I believe what you need is called a basket hold- you sit cross-legged with your legs over his legs and your arms around him. You should be able to keep you both safe until he simmers down in that position.

Sending you lots of hugs and love- I hope his therapist has some insight.

-Angela


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## boysrus (Dec 2, 2001)

Yes, I would look at food issues number 1. 7 is so young to react that violently, even with all you have gone through. I would try removing food coloring, corn syrup, and artificial flavors right away. Look into the feingold diet, and try it out for him.
Also, definitely talk to his therapist right away, and see if there is any more you can do.
((hugs))


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## bobica (May 31, 2004)




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## boysrus (Dec 2, 2001)

http://id.essortment.com/aggressivechi_rdgj.htm

http://addadhdadvances.com/childhitting.html

these migh tbe helpful


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## darkstar (Sep 8, 2003)

and

















darkstar


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

My preschool kids at school aren't as old as your son, but we have a little boy who is having some serious anger problems as well. We have been keeping a log to try to identify triggers so we can find a way to diffuse things earlier. We're logging anything that works to help the situation too. I think a log might help you and his therapist.

Diet might play a role too, I'd look at it anyway.

Not to be obvious but it sounds like at least this time, he wanted your undivided attention and he didn't think he had it because his sisters were talking too. Maybe you already do this, but if you don't, can you set aside a time that is just his and yours daily? I'm not saying that's going to totally change the situation, or even that it will help, but it might. Even if it's just you driving him alone to and from hockey or therapy or whatever.

also, has anyone taught you how to hold him so you're both (and anybody else who might be around) safe until he is back in control of what he's doing? If it were me and I didn't know how to do it, I would ask--if the therapist doesn't know how, they'll know somebody who does, I'd think anyway.

What a scary thing! I've seen a few kids lose control in my time working in classrooms, and it's never gotten easier to witness. I do feel better knowing what I can do to help, but I still feel horrible for the child, and it's just a scary thing to be part of. I hope you find what works for your family.


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

s

He sounds like he needs to have your undivided attention to help him through some stuff.

I know you are going through hard times.
more







s for that

also, I agree with the food thing.

These are the foods that make my son crazy (and I have had to learn a kind of safe hold for him, and he's not even four yet):

wheat, corn/corn syrup, food colorings, artifical anything, soy, sugar, maybe too much salt, too

wheat is actually the biggest problem for us.

when I avoid all of these foods, he is much more amenable.

However, I know he was working through some emotional issues along with the food sensitivities, and it helped that we just had two solid weeks together over the holidays when his school was on break. I gave him tons of one-on-one attention.

more







s


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## DragonflyBlue (Oct 21, 2003)

I'm so sorry...









I've been through similar experiences with my late daughter. (she had bipolar) She would be happy, calm and then fly into rages of verbal attacks and sometimes, physical attacks. There was no rhyme or reason, no preventing, and often there was no way to stop it until the rage ran it's course.

It's terrifying when your babes react like this. It makes you feel like a rotten mom.. You aren't though. A rotten mom would have left him on the side of the road and driven off. (a good mom might think of it but she wouldn't act on it. lol)

I have a book that might help.. "The Explosive Child: A New Approach for Understanding and Parenting Easily Frustrated, Chronically Inflexible Children by Ross W. Greene, Ph.D" It gives very helpful information on trying to ward off the rages, how to deal with them when they happen, etc. A lot of it is directed at parenting a child with BP, but may also be helpful to those whose kids just have the rages.

I'm glad your son is in therapy. Kids need a safe place to talk- mom and dad are great, but often they worry about hurting or upsetting us with things they say. A therapist can be the place they unload all the things that scare them - while not having to worry about freaking mom and dad out in the process.

Oh- another book... "Anger Mountain by Bryna Hebert; illustrated by Hannah, Jessica, and Matthew Hebert. This 20 page 8x10 full color story is perfect for any child dealing with anger issues. The book features stories about Robert, an elementary age child who gets angry easily but is learning several different ways of coping with it more positively. He's not perfect, but he's trying and he's making progress.

"Anger Mountain is a wonderful resource for children who struggle with "mountains" of anger. Written and illustrated in a style engaging for children, their parents and other caring adults, Anger Mountain provides children with hope, support, and strategies for coping." Mary A. Fristad, PhD"

This one may be good for your little guy to read.

Be gentle with yourself. You ARE a good mom!

Janis


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## Ligmom (Nov 24, 2001)

oh, man...your post made me cry. how sad and scary for both you and your ds. i am sorry for not having any constructive advise. i would ask your therapist for suggestions. i hope things improve soon for y'all.







to you and keep your chin up


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## Red (Feb 6, 2002)

Oh you poor thing! How horrible to have to go through all of that and to have your lther kids watching it all. You must be soooo freaked. And I wish I could just gently rub some salve on thise poor mama hands!

My two oldest kids had 'issues' when they were young. I studied special ed and by the time my oldest was 2! I was seeking psychiatric help for her. (Unsuccessfully)







SHe was always violent, kicking and screaming and impossible to comfort. I couldn't seem to get people to understand.

It was a nightmare and I aws a single parent.

My second was adopted and had super ADHD and then some anger issues, lack of impulse control, it was interesting.

I don't talk about this here. SOme people tend to judge and it hurts me way to much, esp since it's all history now and I can't change any of it. I still do research on my own, etc.

I'm telling you this for two reasons. BOTH of my eldest are now well-adjusted, sensible, loving, caring adults, with good jobs, good futures, dreams and are happy, in long-term relationships and at 23 and 26, have yet to produce a single child. (I LONG for grandchildren, yet I delight in the fact that my grandchildren might actually be raised in two parent families with their bio parents -adopted siblings notwithstanding!) As little ones, you'd never have thought it possible. In fact as teens, yuoud have had to been crazy to even think it could turn out so well. Kids make amazing ...I don't know...recoveries? after years of makingus think it can't happpen.

And if you ever want to tell someone all your woes, and know you won't be judged, just PM me. I have been in some tough situations with my kids and NOT having unconditional support is so very hard. If I can help, please let me know.


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## earthmama369 (Jul 29, 2005)

mama. I think you've gotten some great advice here; wish I had something to offer.


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## HoosierDiaperinMama (Sep 23, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna*







I'm glad everyone is safe. You need someone to teach you a safe hold for him in case he goes off like that again. I've worked some with special needs kids but I've never had to personally do it- seen it done though. I believe what you need is called a basket hold- you sit cross-legged with your legs over his legs and your arms around him. You should be able to keep you both safe until he simmers down in that position.

Sending you lots of hugs and love- I hope his therapist has some insight.

-Angela

ITA w/Angela. One of my student's mother's is a special needs teacher and she preaches about safe holds. They have been very effective w/her students.








s to you. I know you are shaken up, but are you okay physically? I know that he hit and bit you quite a bit. Take care of yourself!







s


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## shannon0218 (Oct 10, 2003)

No experience here either, but wanted to send a


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## PajamaMama (Dec 18, 2004)

Wow, holy cow. I don't know what to say that would be supportive enough! I hope that your family can heal so he can be okay, and YOU can be okay.

Be careful of your hand where he bit it, humans have dirty mouths and you could get a nasty infection from his bites. If it starts looking angry go to a walk in clinic and get some antibiotics.


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## MotherWhimsey (Mar 21, 2005)

I am so sorry apmom, I know this has been such a hard time for you anyway. I'm so sorry.














s


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## kamilla626 (Mar 18, 2004)

Hello.

This is not Kamilla, but Kamilla's husband... darling husband I hope!

I've been working with, um, well the popular phrase is "troubled children" for 17 years. I currently am the Director of a Behavioral Treatment Residential program. I am also a certified instructor if a nationally recognized crisis prevention curriculum.

That said... DO NOT place your child in a seated baskethold as described by pp! That position has not been used for the physical management of children in many years. That position poses a great injury risk for your child; child deaths have resulted in the past due to positional asphyxia resulting from adults holding children in that position.

Continue therapy, both individual and family. A good family therapist is likely to want to meet with both you and your son, as well as your son and his father (if that is possible and appropriate...) to try to get an understanding of what's driving his behavior.

Your son is placing himself and those around him at extreme risk. I would STRONGLY recommend contacting a psychiatric crisis center to have him screened. The crisis clinicial may suggest immediate intervention, possibly even hospitalization.

It may help you to understand if you adopt the point of view that ALL behavior, both that of adults and children, is their BEST ATTEPMT to deal with the situation at hand. Violence is often the result of the person having exhausted all other coping strategies. Also: Anger is almost NEVER a primary emotion. That is, anger is almost always an emotion felt AFTER one that is more difficult to experience: embarrassment, shame, fear, loneliness, powerlessness, sadness, hopelessness. Those emotions drain energy, while anger creates a temporary feeling of power, of CONTROL.

My understanding is that your son has had things happen in his life recently that could easily, especially for a 7 year old, lead to any or all of those "anger antecedents." You and your girls are easy targets because you are there. You are the prime target because you are the adult that is around... who better to attack?

Reach out to friends and family. Maintain contacts. Don't isolate yourself, or him. Your son has the best advantage when it comes to confronting and moving beyond these behaviors: you!


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## proud mama of 2 (Dec 16, 2004)

I'm sorry this happened. I hope you can get things worked out with him so you don't have a repeat episode


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## Missy (Oct 22, 2002)

I, too, could not read this without responding.

My 6-year-old ds tends to react more aggressively than other children. Our youngest child has some serious health concerns and goes through long spurts of needing more constant care and attention. Ds1 has interpreted some of the medical attention as being positive (he thinks that when ds2 is in the hospital, he gets lots of toys and everything he wants to eat and lots of cuddling), so dh and I have made a more concerted effort to give him extra time--playing games, going to coffee shops or restaurants or for long walks while the other parent takes care of the baby. We've noticed that his most impulsive behaviors follow certain foods like corn syrup (big trigger) and dyes and other overly-processed foods so we follow a modified Feingold and he's really good about accepting that, even when his friends have certain foods, even at birthday parties, he can't. (Our younger son's special needs include severe allergies so the idea that he needs special foods, too, was a pretty easy concept to grasp.) So, certain situations, combined with the trigger foods, can lead to really unpleasant reactions.

I agree with irishtwins: watch for food triggers, see if you can chart what he's was eating within about 48 hours of the outburst(s).

Also, keep his schedule as simple and predictable as you can. Give him plenty of time to transition between changes.

I'm so sorry. That is so painful and difficult.

Missy


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## kimmie-pooh (Sep 2, 2003)

I, too, couldn't read your post and not reply. I have no advice to offer, but wanted to send


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## mama ganoush (Jul 8, 2004)

ita with kamilla's dh.

also, i wanted to add that i think you did a good job in very trying circumstances.


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## SAHMinHawaii (Jun 2, 2004)

My thoughts and prayers are with you right now and your little boy. My heart is with you right now. Wishing you lots of strength and courage to get through this mama.

I wanted to add..i agree with the pp and how in control of the situation you seemed to be. I don't know if i could of been as calm.


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## kamilla626 (Mar 18, 2004)

ITA with kamilla's dh too!









I (kamilla) also have some experience with children with significant behavioral and/or mental health issues, but I knew that dh would be able to offer much more sound advice.

From what you described in your OP, I don't know if I could have handled the situation any better! You kept him safe, you got him home, you talked about it when he was calm.


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## Danae (Jan 18, 2005)

Oh sweetie..I wish I had some sort of great advice to give you but, I don't. I was in that srt of situation years ago but, I was the child. Therapy is what helped me the most. My thoughts are with you and you family right now!


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## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama ganoush*
ita with kamilla's dh.

also, i wanted to add that i think you did a good job in very trying circumstances.

Me too (on both things, Kamillas husband and how you handled it).

I am really sorry this happened to you. I couldn't imagine that kind of anger, and the danger you were in.....I don't know what to say.

We are here for you mama


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## boysrus (Dec 2, 2001)

I agree that you handled it amazingly well. I am sorry that he responded only to a threat, but I am glad that he responded to something!
Have you ever tried rescue remedy with him? If it works, it might be a good thing to keep in your purse


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## bcky2 (May 30, 2005)

im am here crying for you









i have no advice but just wanted to send a huge hug your way, this must be so hard for you


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## tboroson (Nov 19, 2002)

I think you did very well in a... stressful isn't nearly a strong enough word for the situation. Honestly, with the physical danger he was putting you, your girls and himself into (nearly making you drive off the road, trying to bolt across the road, physically injuring you repeatedly), I don't think I would look down on you if you'd been far less gentle. I think you were remarkably reserved given all that.


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## curlyfry (Feb 16, 2005)

I am so glad you guys are o.k...









I have no advice, just support &


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## wonderfulmom (Feb 29, 2004)

Wow. ((hugs))
I think you should print out what you originally wrote here and give a copy to the therapist- and any doctor you see regarding this problem.
A child who is that out-of-control and violent really needs a psychiatric evaluation ASAP.


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## Cutie Patootie (Feb 29, 2004)

I didn't want to read and not post. I am so sorry mama, I know you must feel heartbroken to be treated this way by your sweet ds. Keep thinking the best of him and know that he is acting this way because he feels safe and secure with you to let his anger come out like that.







I wish I could give you a big hug. Poor mama.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

A book you may want to read (in general, not necessarily for this problem) is The Mind of Boys. One simple thing suggested in that book is make sure your son has enough water to drink--being at all dehydrated really stresses the brain.

He was absolutely WRONG (obviously!) but I think you were also wrong to take away/threaten to take away something he enjoys so much.......hockey. Boys really need a physical outlet for their energy.


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## baileyandmikey (Jan 4, 2005)

hugs


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## Ms.Doula (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A*
He was absolutely WRONG (obviously!) but I think you were also wrong to take away/threaten to take away something he enjoys so much.......hockey. Boys really need a physical outlet for their energy.

Are you SERIOUS??? What was she to do??? Drop of her Out of Controll, Dangerous son, at practice like nothing had happened!!????!!







:

*APmama*- I think you did a awesome AP mama job in that situation. I would not have been so gentle. And I won't tell you what you should do... But I will be here to support you in it. Whatever it may be


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

I second The Explosive Child book.

Rain used to get really out of control when she was 6, attacking me, spitting, hitting, kicking... I got better at finding her triggers (and I took her out of school) and she did get over it, but it was a pretty awful time. I was a teacher of kids with behavior disorders so I was CPI and Mandt trained, and I did use their restraint techniques with her at times. If possible, I would recommend getting Mandt certified. 90% of the program is about how to de-escalate kids and defuse situations so you can avoid these kinds of outbursts, but they do teach some safe ways to restrain kids - safe for you and for the child.

Dar


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## TeaBag (Dec 18, 2003)

Thank you to each and every one of you. We have talked much tonight about lots of stuff....anger/sadness/dealing with emotions/talking rather than yelling/physical attacks....I can't even remember everything that was touched upon. I will look more closely at food triggers; I have been watching his sugar intake pretty closely recently. I have written down all the book suggestions, and will be calling the library tomorrow. Dh called and spoke with ds at length about the incident, and he and I spoke about it as well, of course...but I have not (and will not) ask ds about his conversation with his father....That is between them.

I'm sorry, I know there's more I want to say and specific people to whom I wish to repond, but it will have to wait until tomorrow. I am physically, emotionally, and spiritually exhausted and headed for bed.









Thank you, everyone.


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## nicole lisa (Oct 27, 2004)

Wow. Hugs, mama. I can't even imagine how terrifying that must have been. And hurtful and angering and sad and everything.

Please be gentle with yourself and take the time you need to process what happened.

I don't know if this will be of any help to you but one thing jumped out from your post when I was reading it (bolding mine).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *APMom98*
Ds got angry because the girls weren't being quiet. He was trying to say something, and while he had my full attention, they were still talking and he was angry. So he started yelling. We are on the way to hockey at that point. I asked him to please not shout in the car and that it wasn't necessary for them to stop talking, *I could hear him just fine. He wasn't happy with that*, and kept yelling louder and louder at them. I told him that this wasn't a respectful way to treat them and to please stop or we would go home instead of going to hockey. At which point, he screamed "SHUT UP!"

This stands out for me because I really really suffer with being highly sensitive and with that, when I get overwhelmed, I get to the point where I can't take any over-talking or background talking, especially in a small space such as a vehicle, often cause the radio will be on as well. When I get over stimulated things start sounding freight-train-in-my-living-room loud and everything starts hurting my ears and I start feeling very angry as I try to find a way for things to quiet down. I can't continue my conversation because I can no longer think - everything around me - all the sounds, smells, textures - interupt and overwhelm me. So while my BF or friends wouyld tell me it's OK they can hear me it's not OK for me. It's taken me a long time to realize that's what's going on and that's what is triggering the anger. Often, especially when I was younger, I found myself screaming "shut up" in an attempt to make it all stop. Figuring out what was going on has helped tremendously in finding ways to cope and in eliminating the anger. But even now, as we head into the 2nd week of holidays and lots of people home and around and lots of space sharing I am finding myself needing to retreat to my room for some quiet and alone time. My family is starting to over stimualte me, despite my love for them. Just tonight I went out alone for a bit.

Anyways, I just thought I'd put this out there. I don't know if it applies at all or if you've seen some sensory stuff with him before.

Again, take care of yourself as you come down from the crisis and look into possible reasons for his behaviour.


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## Wolfmeis (Nov 16, 2004)

Sleep well APMom. You did great.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Please know that nothing you did caused the situation. It must be horrible to do everything right and still have these kinds of problems. He needs help and you are getting it for him. Your family will come through this okay.


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## griffin2004 (Sep 25, 2003)

Wow. What a horrible experience for all of you.

You mentioned that both you and your husband have talked to your son. Have you both also processed the incident with your daughters? I can only imagine how terrified they must have been, too.

All the best in helping your little guy through this traumatic time.


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## 5796 (Oct 19, 2002)

APmom,

You've been given so much good advice and wisdom already.

the only thing I would offer... take DS to a Homeopath. And possibly an Osteopath.

I think there is a lot there that will help DS.

hugs


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

I hope you find answers and some peace soon. It sounds like you acted totally appropriately. And, ITA, please print out your post and bring it to the counselor. Sometimes, we try to put a rosy glow on things but this was written from your heart.


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## mandib50 (Oct 26, 2004)

sending you and your ds lots of love and healing light


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## mammabear (Oct 21, 2002)

s to all of you and my thoughts will be with you through this. I hope you find peace in your situation soon.


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## LadyMarmalade (May 22, 2005)

Hugs to you. I'm so sorry you're both going through such a tough time. I think you handled the situation really well. I don't have any advice, but I couldn't read without giving you my support.


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## mmace (Feb 12, 2002)

Many, Many hugs....


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## amj'smommy (Feb 24, 2005)

I too don't have any advise for your situation but I wanted to offer my support and thoughts.


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## BelovedK (Jun 7, 2005)

I'm so sorry, I have a sometimes violent son, he has been informally Dx with youth onset bipolar. If that is so, he will need meds (I have alot of experience w/ bipolar---it''s in my family) BTW, when i talk about meds, i'm talking about my own son.

When my own son is violent, it is usually towards himself/his stuff, etc,,,but he does tell me that he hates me and wishes i was dead among other things. I don't know if that helps, Hugs to you as you go through this startling situation....Blessings to you and your family


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## Asher (Aug 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amj'smommy*







I too don't have any advise for your situation but I wanted to offer my support and thoughts.

Ditto.

I wish you peace and love while you are trying to figure out what is going on and get the best solution. I have absolutely no experience with this so would not feel comfortable giving suggestions. I got similar when I was little, but not to the point of being mean, just uncontrollable tantruming. (For me it was red food coloring.)


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## HoosierDiaperinMama (Sep 23, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A*
He was absolutely WRONG (obviously!) but I think you were also wrong to take away/threaten to take away something he enjoys so much.......hockey. Boys really need a physical outlet for their energy.

I can't believe you are criticizing her (whether you thought you were being helpful or not), but whatever. Wouldn't this send a message to him that his behavior was somehow okay? FWIW, the mama did a fantastic job in a very nasty situation and I don't think she needs this comment on top of everything.


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## granolamom (Sep 30, 2002)

So much great advice here..

Hugs to you mama, TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF!!!!

You did a GREAT job dealing with the situation at hand.

Blessings to you


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## kamilla626 (Mar 18, 2004)

Wanted to add; I think you did the right thing in turn around and going right back home.

With a normal "tantrum" you can usually just go on with the day once a child calms down. But if a person - at age 7 or 13 or 43 - is in danger of hurting themselves, hurting someone else, or doing serious property damage, their day should really "shut down".

He may not have been able to handle being at the rink right after that ouburst.

Children need a different kind of structure and attention after that kind of outburst. They also need to understand that they can not continue with their typical day if they put themselves and others into that kind of danger.

For normal tantrums, then yes - you can usually just move on. But children who are violent are often afraid of their own aggression. They feel safest when they know that the adults in their lives will contain them.


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## **guest** (Jun 25, 2004)

Hugs to you, APmom. I second looking into sensory issues.
Both me and ds have sensory issues and I have reacted very badly when overwhelmed with background noise.
My son is being evaluated right now but, unfortunately, I don't think many of his sensory issues came up while being seen by the autism spectrum doc.

Just wanted to offer some positive, loving energy to you and your ds.
I really hope things start getting better for you and your family.


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## Monkeyfeet (Feb 5, 2005)

First off hugs to you and your little ones. That must have been very difficult for all of you!

My first thought (I did not read through so this may have been mentioned) is that he gets over stimulated easily. I do and a lot of noise can get really overwhelming for me if I am trying to talk. This can make me very frustrated, so I will leave the area for a bit. This is how I handle it. Maybe your sone has some sensory issues as well and could not escape the noise in the car and did not know how to control his feelings. Just my thoughts!


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## kalisis (Jan 10, 2005)

s mama. This sounds so difficult - I'm sorry.


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## TeaBag (Dec 18, 2003)

So, it's morning,







and I'm reading and thinking with a clearer mind. Again, I can't thank all of you enough for your support and suggestions and ideas.









Some things that have jumped out at me, and please forgive me if I don't get a user name correct, a LOT of wonderful advise here and I don't want to offend anyone. First, for those that suggested more time with me, I *know* this is what he needs from me and I am doing my best to get it for him...but with dh gone, it's hard to get time alone with any of them. I did take him to go see Narnia on Friday night and he loved it.







Food issues is something that I had considered, as far as sugar goes. I hadn't really thought about looking into dyes, etc....so that's definitely something I'm going to look at more closely. Kamilla's dh, thank you for the reminder that he's dealing the best way he can at this moment. I needed to hear that....it was so overwhelming and something I told dh but didn't mention here....it took every single ounce of self control I had at that moment not to just hit him as hard as I could.







: I know, looking back, it was my own "Fight or Flight" instinct kicking in, and as Janis (?) said about driving off and leaving him on the side of the road...It did cross my mind, "That'll teach him" mentality. Which I hate to even remember, much less admit. But, of course, it got dismissed as quickly as it was there. I *wanted* to hit him....to hit him back. To make him stop.

Red, thank you for your thoughts. I know that I have had many people comment, discuss, or just plain







at ds' behavior before. He always has had a hot temper, it's been a running joke in our house that while he looks like his father, his personality is so like mine, it's scary....right down to the terrible temper. I look forward to discussing your experiences with you further.

I know there's more I need to say, but dd is sitting at my elbow saying "I want breakfast, I want breakfast,..." so I'm off for now. Oh, and thanks for the reminder to process with the girls. I did talk to 3yr old last night, but now is my chance with 2 yr old. Be back with more later.


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## DarkHorseMama (Mar 8, 2003)

for you, hon.

You have had much good advice here, and I can't add to that. The experience that I can relate is that of a child at my DD's preschool. He is about 3.5 and is a very sweet child in general. I *know* him to be raised by parents who are very much AP and whom have done the "right things" for him in his young life. In spite of it all, I have personally seen this child launch himself in attack on a couple of separate occasions at other children, screaming and hitting them. The one common thread that I see is that the father is often gone from home. He is a professional musician and frequently on the road. Just like with your DH being gone, there isn't *really* anything that anyone can do about it. It is what it is. They try to find the best ways to cope with it that they can, and are very successful...but sometimes the anger explosions squeak out the edges anyway.

As I'm sure everyone here has the same thoughts at heart, I'm not trying to diagnose your DS or situation by any means. Just trying to relate different experiences that we have had that *might* relate to your situation. You can decide if they resonate with you and your family.









PS: Kamilla's DH....you have put into words for me something my inner child has known for years, but I haven't been able to see in such a simple, straightforward manner. Thank you more than you know for the reminder about anger being a momentary attempt to grab power and control.


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## jannan (Oct 30, 2002)

what has been the assessment of the therapist he is now seeing?
have meds been recommended? not that i'm for meds but i'm interested on his/her take on it.
and I love mikes hard lemonade................a hard mike is good to find!


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## mamarhu (Sep 12, 2004)

Oh, my heart goes out to you, Mama. ElderSon was much like your boy, to the point of a psychiatric hospitalization at age 10. Somehow we got throught the intervening years, and he is now in the Army, and seems to be thriving on the structure and discipline that this hippie, pacifist Mama could not give. I didn't mean to say your son should join the army, hope it didn't sound like that. What I meant was that there is a niche in this world for everyone, where they can be their best. Finding it is the trick, I suppose. And getting through the day is a worthwhile goal. I remember being overwhelmed by the situation, partly because it was rough in the here-and-now, but also because I was so worried about how this young man would ever find a place in the world. My advice to you is feeble, and not much help, but here goes: One Day at a Time. Keep looking for answers and solutions (many of the above are great), but remember to reward yourself at the end of each day that you and your family have survived. Keeping yourself and your kids safe might be all you can hope for, until therapy, diet, or whatever starts to work its magic. Give yourself a break whenever you can, even if it is only a soak in a hot bath after everyone's asleep. You have earned it; you deserve it!


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## TeaBag (Dec 18, 2003)

Back...again. I just keep coming back and reading and re-reading all the wonderful ideas and much needed hugs everyone has given. I have given a little thought to the overstimulation factor. Ds has always been high needs, some of you may remember my struggles with him as a little babe. He has always needed much transition time and he doesn't learn with "traditional" methods...he's very much a tactile, hands-on type of kid. I have written down the incident, including my thoughts and feelings as coherently as possible and will just pass the paper over to the therapist on Thursday.

He seems calm this morning. He had trouble transitioning to sleep last night, not surprisingly.....and so didn't end up falling asleep until just about ten. That made getting up this morning for school much more difficult than usual, but I was able to use humor to get him moving and he's now at school. He seems almost subdued, quiet, introverted, which isn't his personality at all....so we'll see where the day goes. I did encourage eggs and whole wheat toast for breakfast this morning as well. (usually, I jsut let him choose what he wants, pancakes, waffles, french toast, etc...but they are all carbs, and I felt he needed the protein)

A lot of my shock and emotions last night were of the "what did I do wrong?" "How could I let this happen?" type....I try so hard, as all of you know, to meet the needs of my children, most of the time, at the sacrifice of my own needs....I hear constantly that "You can't take care of the kids unless you take care of yourself" and under normal circumstances, I believe that to be true....however, I am a 34 year old adult. They are 7 and 3 and 2. They do not understand everything that has transpired in this family over the last six months, nor do I want them to......My needs *must* come secondary to theirs, at least for now. And to feel like I've been giving and giving and sacrificing for their benefit only to have him tell me "I hate you, you stupid, stupid woman, I wish you were dead."







. What did I do? What could I have done differently?

I *know* rationally, that it was his anger....thanks again Kamilla's dh...He was trying to feel in control of himself and me....and trying to manipulate me isnt' something new for this child....in fact, we had a conversation the other night about how mom hates to be manipulated. so he wanted to make me feel bad. Well, he succeeded. Rational thought doesn't factor in when your child says that. It's all emotion. and it hurts. Whether he meant it or not, those words, more than the physical attack, will be bouncing around in my head for the rest of my life.

So, obviously, I'm still processing. I need to call the therapist. I need to call the library. With much love, thank you all.


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## dallaschildren (Jun 14, 2003)

I want you to know I am thinking of you and that you are very intelligent and brave to reach out for help. I do not have any wisdom to share, but I believe that your DS may not be getting the type of help he needs. The tantrum and physical anger may be a cry out that he needs something more or someone different (counselor, psychologist, etc.). Please keep us posted and lean on us for support.

DC


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## Autumn Breeze (Nov 13, 2003)

2:







: Im sorry


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *APMom98*
Ds has always been high needs, some of you may remember my struggles with him as a little babe. He has always needed much transition time and he doesn't learn with "traditional" methods...he's very much a tactile, hands-on type of kid.

APMom your ds sounds just like mine, tho he's not yet four years old.

Quote:

I did encourage eggs and whole wheat toast for breakfast this morning as well. (usually, I jsut let him choose what he wants, pancakes, waffles, french toast, etc...but they are all carbs, and I felt he needed the protein)
I find that my ds is much calmer and happier when he eats more protein and less carbs. Our problem is that he is very picky and won't eat a great variety of foods. I'm lucky to get protein into him, but when I do, he is less likely to have major tantrums. And I mean out of control tantrums where he is trying to beat me up and tells me he doesn't like me. So, I try to focus on proteins and if we do have carbs, the least processed as possible. And I try to avoid most packaged foods (altho I don't make pasta). And, we eat rice or potato pasta or crackers or bread. We don't eat wheat. Removing wheat has made a huge difference in ds' behavior.

Over the holidays I made a lot of concessions in his diet - he had wheat products and candy and desserts that surely had corn syrup and food coloring, and he had packaged foods that had a lot of salt or msg in them, and tons of sugar. His sleep was HORRIBLE and his behavior even worse. We've been detoxing him the past couple of days and already he is getting better.

I think food has a lot to do with behavior, but also I am thinking that with a sensitive child it is so challenging bc you have to remember to listen harder or be more in tune with the child and his/her greater needs. I often tell my ds that I am listening to him and stop and look him in the eye, or pull him onto my lap, even tho it's obvious (at least to me) that I am listening, bc I really want him to know that I am getting his message.

You are doing a great job! It is so hard. And you have three kids on your own. I wish I could offer more ideas, but so many people here have posted so many great things for you. Stay strong and know that you are a great mama!!








s


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## Anguschick1 (Jul 25, 2003)

Oh Mama.









You responded so well, both during the incident and afterwards. I don't have a child that old, but when my best friend's son was that age (he's 11 now) he was a pretty good kid most of the time, then he'd have these rages where he'd either fly off the handle externally at her physically, or at himself, emotionally. Therapy kicked up to 2-3x/week (it had been 1x every other week) and he started spending 1 on 1 time w/my dh (the only male role model in his life at that time. Can your brother (that's who you called, right?) spend some time w/him doing physical, non-violent stuff? Instead of hockey, could they rake leaves or pound nails into stuff? Dh and bf's son also went on long hikes. Basically physically demanding things where if they "happened" to talk during their time, the focus wasn't on the talking.

One more thing, as time goes on, don't look at the incident w/rosey glasses. Please don't beat yourself up over it, but remember how serious it was so that you keep looking for answers to make it better.

You did great Mama. Your son is lucky to have you. Kudos for overcoming that initial reaction to being hurt and using your higher level brain in a situation that was certainely not operating at a higher level.


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## FoxintheSnow (May 11, 2004)

You've gotten a lot of great advice. ITA with Kamilla's dh and I think you handled the situation well.
I also wanted to say when I was 8 years old my parents were getting divorced and I became very angry and violent towards my mom. I would yell things like "I hate you I wish you were dead. I wish I had a different mom" etc at her. I think at the time I felt very frustrated like all these changes were happening that no one was asking my opinion of or letting me know what was really going on. I also felt like the divorce was my mom's fault.

I just wanted to possibly give you some perspective into an 8 year old's mind.


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## mamadege5 (Jan 5, 2005)

to you mama Lots of good advice here by knowledgable mamas
peace to you and ds today


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## Little Bear's Mama (Mar 20, 2003)

Definitely look into the food issues.







Sugar is rarely the culprit. Processed foods and, most especially, food dyes are usually the first place to look. When you mentioned this happened right after a trip to McDonald's, I thought "BINGO!". My ds sometimes gets out of control when he has too many processed foods and McDonald's is about as processed as you can get.







(Note that we do eat there on a rare occassion, so I'm not putting you down for eating there.) Oh, and especially watch out for red dye #40. IME, red dye=









Originally posted by nicole lisa

Quote:

This stands out for me because I really really suffer with being highly sensitive and with that, when I get overwhelmed, I get to the point where I can't take any over-talking or background talking, especially in a small space such as a vehicle, often cause the radio will be on as well. When I get over stimulated things start sounding freight-train-in-my-living-room loud and everything starts hurting my ears and I start feeling very angry as I try to find a way for things to quiet down. I can't continue my conversation because I can no longer think - everything around me - all the sounds, smells, textures - interupt and overwhelm me. So while my BF or friends wouyld tell me it's OK they can hear me it's not OK for me. It's taken me a long time to realize that's what's going on and that's what is triggering the anger. Often, especially when I was younger, I found myself screaming "shut up" in an attempt to make it all stop.
This is something I had wanted to point out, too. Eventhough *you* might have heard him just fine(funny how mamas can listen to so many things at once, eh?







), but *he* might not have been able to concentrate to hear you and it might have also have been that the noise was absolutely overwhelming for him. I wonder if some arrangement could be made that could help him when traveling. Do you think he might like to wear some headphones to cut back on all the different noises? And perhaps you could work out a signal or code word that would help him to tell you when he is getting past the point of being overwhelmed with noise/activity or to get your undivided attention?

Hope things get better for you. Take care!


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A*
A book you may want to read (in general, not necessarily for this problem) is The Mind of Boys. One simple thing suggested in that book is make sure your son has enough water to drink--being at all dehydrated really stresses the brain.

He was absolutely WRONG (obviously!) but I think you were also wrong to take away/threaten to take away something he enjoys so much.......hockey. Boys really need a physical outlet for their energy.


So she should have rewarded his bad behavior then? Perhaps this is a child for whom total GD just does not work. That is a possibility, you know. The poor child seems to need more help than what is being given to him. But, I totally support what the mother did, even if some do not. I would have had a lot less restraint had my child physically attacked me.


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## Ms.Doula (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TinkerBelle*
So she should have rewarded his bad behavior then? Perhaps this is a child for whom total GD just does not work. That is a possibility, you know. The poor child seems to need more help than what is being given to him. But, I totally support what the mother did, even if some do not. I would have had a lot less restraint had my child physically attacked me.









: ITA


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

Wow, I love MDC. I think you've gotten some fabulous suggestions about possible culprits.

Ya know, that's the 2nd time I've seen that hockey blurb quoted. I think she was right not to go, but it does make me wonder if hockey is the right sport for him. Maybe karate would help him channel his aggressions. At least around here, hockey celebrates the aggressive kid.


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## boysrus (Dec 2, 2001)

I would definitely schedule a sensory assessment, with an OT or ask the therapist to recommend someone


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## sweetest (May 6, 2004)

I am amazed at how well you handled the situation - I dont know if I could have remained that calm









Hugs to you - I hope you have some time to take care of yourself.


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## nicole lisa (Oct 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dallaschildren*
you are very intelligent and brave to reach out for help.

I just wanted this repeated. I've been thinking of you and your family, mama, and am in awe of your grace and your ability to reach out in a crisis.


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

I've only skimmed the responses, but please make sure that you don't "neglect" the girls over this. They need to process his behaviour too, and shouldn't have to do without you at the same time.

I don't mean neglect as in NEGLECT, kwim?


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Although I don't have any specific advise, I too wanted to add a hug and tell you how much I admire you for keeping your cool during the moment. I know I would never have been able to work as calmly as you did!


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## LizD (Feb 22, 2002)

Try not to be too upset. At least you are trying to get to the bottom of it, and you will. I give you credit for not becoming violent yourself, especially when you were frightened.

And until you know the best way to handle his personal issues, discipline measures that seem harsh might be the best thing to do in the meantime. It might even make HIM feel better, deep down, to know you can impose some kind of limit on him. Children are frightened, too, by being that out-of-control. You can always restore the priviledge or end the punishment whenever you like.

If he has any sensory integration issues, even quiet talking from others might be so distracting it sounds, to him, like shouting. Some children are extremely sensitive to noise and distracted so easily it is a torment to them. Even children who don't have those issues per se, at around seven can be very adamant that they need absolute silence before they can speak. But if he also has these anger and control episodes, it might be sensory integration. I've heard the same scenario, almost, in variation, from others who discovered OT really helped. Good luck. It will be ok.


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## MamaBug (Jun 13, 2003)

: I cannot imagine what you are going through now and don't have time to fully digest or answer just wanted you to know that your post brought tears to my eyes and I will be thinking of you and hoping that this can be sorted out. Poor mama, poor baby







:


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

My first thought was that it sounds like some substance in his body is making him act this way -- food or a medication perhaps? Is he taking or eating anything different? My son was on a cough medication called B-Tuss once when he was about 2.5 years old, and he went absolutely CRAZY, throwing these huge fits, biting, kicking, screaming. It was horrible and SO not like him.

I'm really sorry you're going through this, mama. I would definitely talk to his therapist about this rage very soon.


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## Suzetta (Dec 21, 2003)

I am very sorry that you are dealing with this difficult situation.

I haven't read all the responses yet, so please accept my apology if I am repeating. One thing that stood out for me is the fact that you were taking him to hockey. It is my experience that hockey is a very violent sport, and children who already have anger issues have a very hard time keeping their emotions separate from what they percieve as the game. I hope you consider removing him from such a violent sport, and put him into something that will help him bring out more positive aspects of his personality.


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## Breathless Wonder (Jan 25, 2004)

There are some physical issues that can cause rapid mood swings or rages. Thyroid issues springs to mind, hormonal imbalances, high or low blood sugar, nutrient deficiencies...just a few that pop to mind.

It might be worth getting a really thorough physical, complete with bloodwork.


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## pranamama (Nov 6, 2002)

Hope your son gets the help he needs and you don't have to deal with another outburst for a long time!! I am having similar problems and am trying to figure out what to do. I don't know your son's age but there is a cut-off age 13 here, where a parent loses the ability to put a child in mental health treatment without the consent of the child which makes it really difficult to get help.


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## nicole lisa (Oct 27, 2004)

How's everyone feeling today, mama?


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## TeaBag (Dec 18, 2003)

We seem to be improving. He handled some disappointment very, very well last night,(he wanted to go to a friend's house before dinner/before homework, etc and he was tired from not going to bed the night before, and so I told him that it wasn't a good idea.) but he handled it very well, cried some and yelled a bit, but no violence.







DD2 told me "I hate you, you stupid poopyhead"....but she's two. she's trying it on for size,









We have an appt tomorrow and I've writting down everything I can remember from that night, including things that were said, how I felt, etc....so we'll see what the therapist says. And I called a nurse that I know. Our ped just retired and there's not really anyone at our clinic that I like, so I called her and asked her to find someone that I could work with, someone that I'm not going to have to fight with over parenting/vacs/etc. She's supposed to get back with me today.

I don't know. I want to say that we're healing, but without knowing the cause, it doesn't feel like healing, more like.....surviving? Does that make any sense? But, I keep coming back here....reading all the love and support when I start feeling overwhelmed with it. And the bruises on my hand are starting to heal....Thank you so much for asking.


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## Bearsmama (Aug 10, 2002)

Just major, major hugs and support here, mama.


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## nicole lisa (Oct 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *APMom98*
I want to say that we're healing, but without knowing the cause, it doesn't feel like healing, more like.....surviving?

Surviving is good. Hang on to that. I'm glad your friend is going to look into a reccomendation for a ped that will support your parenting choices - that is key.

Keep on surviving. Healing will come as you work through finding causes and prevention etc.

Hugs to you mama.


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Just saw this - SOOO sorry that happened to you. How awful and scary.

First of all, I am sad that you felt you needed a couple of drinks (I myself enjoy the Mike's Hard Berry or Cranberry....







) to come here for support. You did nothing wrong. You didn't cause it. You responded as well as anyone could have. I wouldn't have done as well. I strive never to hit my kids but would have in that situation, whether out of fear or anger or.... I don't know. You did an incredible job and you should feel absolutely NO embarrassment over what transpired.

Second of all, I would try to not hold on to the words he said. Kids get to a certain age and learn that they can hurt us with words. He was angry. My dd1 is nine and more in control of her emotions these days but when she was younger, she would resort to mean comments if things didn't go her way sometimes.

Sounds like he has a lot to deal with right now. I am glad he is in therapy; that can only help I'd think - assuming you really like his therapist. I agree that he needs a good physical outlet. Are the hockey practices and games in any way violent or physically aggressive? If so, that might not be the best outlet for him. I agree with finding something else if that is the case.

He needs that one on one time with you. It is hard for us as parents to really WANT that when they are being so impossible to be around sometimes. When my dd1 went through her hard stage, everyone told me to spend one on one time with her - I didn't want to! It was all I could do to get through the time we had to spend together; I didn't want any extra! It was a very hard time for both of us. We survived it; you will too.

The physical part is what concerns me. If he can hurt you, he most certainly can do some very serious damage to 3 and 2 year old girls. He clearly has some anger control issues. He is not a toddler; he is seven. He knows it is out of control. And when his godfather pulled rank on him, he dropped right into line. So he was not as completely out of control as it may have seemed. He wasn't "out of his mind"; he was able to pull it together when he got that phone call.

I really don't think the physical threat was so terrible. It will not be popular on MDC but that was an awful situation in which people could clearly have been seriously injured or killed. Telling a seven year old to stop it or he will be spanked doesn't seem at all out of line to me. But I never claimed to be super GD either... GD is great and works for lots of people on this board. But the situation you described went beyond what GD could do. Really, is the threat of spanking worse than him getting hit by a car as he runs across the road? Or causes a head on collision?

I would up the number of days per week he sees the therapist, with an emphasis on anger management. Personally, I would look into some medication for him - you have two other small children and are doing this by yourself right now. You can't have what happened that day happen again. No one wants to put their child on meds but maybe a 30 day trial on something low dose? I am generally very anti-meds for kids but it is needed in some cases.

I hope I didn't say anything that makes it any worse for you. I totally feel for you and think you did a great job that day. It will not always be as hard as it is right now. Take care of yourself during this time too. Do you have a friend or sibling who can babysit for you once a week so you can go out with a friend or something? Keep us posted on how things are going.


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Me again. I forgot one point!









A friend's dd1 had some anger management issues and was physically scary with her little sister (slamming her head in doors, etc.) They found that red dye #40(?) was a real trigger for her. When they took that out of her diet, she improved a lot - with just that one change.


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## Alkenny (May 4, 2004)

I don't have advice but didn't want to read without a


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## Unreal (Dec 15, 2002)

My dear dear friend has a son who is now 13. He is such an awesome kid...I've never seen him ever lose it.

But she tells tales of his younger years that make you wonder how they survived. He also popped out of his car seat to attack her--more than once








Thankfully she had two older children who were able to help somewhat when that happened.

In the end, his anger management became an entire family project. There were signals that a blow-up was coming--and anyone in the family that saw those could 'sound the alarm'--which meant taking the family's baby into another area of the house and trying to diffuse the situation as best as possible...if possible...

It ended up that one sibling was much better than anyone else at recognizing and calming him....
and as he got older, they all worked to help him recognize the signs that a storm was brewing.

And as I said above--I can't picture this kiddo ever being the way I've heard. He is such an awesome kid and is SO patient with my kids.

You did an awesome job with your son--it is so hard to find safe ways to handle your kid attacking you (my youngest does this...). My gut instinct is to fight back and to stiffle that is one of the hardest things I've ever had to do--I'd take labor and birth over handling those situations ANY day.

I know someone mentioned Rescue Remedy....it is amazing stuff--I carry it with us all the time now.
BUT. It doesn't do ANYTHING if I try to make ds take it. I have to offer it and wait until he wants it for it to make an explosion end.
However, I take it the second he starts to lose control. It helps me deal with things in a semi-rational manner.
We use the spray, which I just carry with my wallet.

And another vote for 'dyes are EVIL'. We knew that dairy makes ds lose control, but never caught the dyes until this Christmas when my mom and the kids made 100% safe cookies with all sorts of decorations. Ds ate about 5 of the little red cinnamon candies and was acting like he was possessed for 2 days afterwards
















s mama


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