# Virtues Parenting



## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Has anyone heard of the Virtues Project?

I am exploring the Virtues (things like repect, tolerence, gentleness, peacefulness, generosity) in conjunction with how we teach our children to handle themselves in relation to the rest of the world, including family, etc, often. There is a non-denominational movement called the "Virtues Project" that encompasses 52 basic Virtues for Humanity and is being employed in 86 countries. Facilitators guide folks in using the Virtues in various aspects of life... the school, church, and home are not the only places, now... even some corporations use the models for training and team-building.

I recently began teaching in a pre-k through middle-school-age Virtues-Project Summer Day Camp. Wow. The principles I'm learning and the way they are immediately applicable to everyday parenting and conflicts is just AMAZING. I haven't been on for a couple months, and have only begun to really apply the Virtues Teaching, but this is just too good not to share.

Check out this link for the Five Basic Strategies used in the Virtues Project.

Quote:

*Virtues-The Gifts of Character:* _Love. Kindness. Justice. Service. The virtues are the very meaning and purpose of our lives. They are universally valued by people of all faiths and cultures. We seek ways to renew and deepen our connection with the values that give direction to our lives. We strive to mentor our children and to build safe and caring schools and communities.

The mission of The Virtues Project is to provide empowering strategies that inspire the practice of virtues in everyday life._
Ultimately, it's up to us how we apply the Virtues to parenting. There is a lot of material, ideas, suggestions, and guidence on the topic.

One of the practices we are using in Virtues Camp is a progression meant to manage conflicts in a group of children... and I find it works nicely one on one in the home or with mulitple children... siblings, etc. The Courtesy Corner (at our house it is the Listening Spot, or Meditation or Refelcetion Time) is a place away from the action, maybe with a couple of pillows, or something, meant for one having a problem (sometimes, at home, it's me...) using Virtues (or as we call them "the hidden gems within" or gifts of character) to find resolutions or handle conflicts. Upon observation that one is struggling to find an appropriate resolution to a conflict, the individual is guided to, recommended or instructed to spend some time away from the group or activity to reflect on the Virtue they were having a hard time with. For example, if a child is having a hard time with Gentlness (striking friends, or being too rough with toys, etc), then he or she would be given a book or some cards with pictures/writings on Gentleness. When the child believes he or she is ready to "use his or her Gentleness" then that child is cheerfully welcomed back.

When behaviors escallate as they sometimes do, we use a Courtesy Room, at our Camp, which is removed from the group or activity, where the teacher or a helper (or mom, at home, etc) has a one on one about the Virtues in question... using the Gentleness example again, here, the 'facilitator' would ask open-ended guiding questions about the conflict and the Virtue of Gentleness, enabling the child to arrive at some conclusions regarding his or her behavior and what Virtue we can use to resolve the conflict. At the Camp, there is a final step involving the Courtesy Walk, where a child is patiently escorted to a parent and the parent or helper (or parent is called) and this adult reflects with the child until an accord has been reached regarding the behavior and choices are made jointly about participation.

This is becoming a life-changing experience.

I welcome ANY questions or comments from folks who have anything to add on the topic of the Virtues Project and using the Virtues in parenting... We try to practice CL with our 3.5 yo, and sometimes that age can be very testing with CL... we use the Love and Logic modality too, which has some Virtues Project in it, or maybe it's Love and Logic in the Virtues...







I am finding this model works so well with so many of the approaches regularly discussed here! Sincerely, there are moments where I wonder how I thought I could approach CL, UP and GD _without_ them in my regular language.

I am anxious to learn more and would love to have questions from others to guide my own exploration of this methodology.


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Cultivate Virtue in Yourself and Virtue will be Real...
Cultivate Virtue in the Family and Virtue will Flourish...
Cultivate Virtue in the Village and Virtue will Spread...
Cultivate Virtue in the Nation and Virtue will be Abundant...
Cultivate Virtue in the World and Virtue will Triumph _Everywhere._

~Lao Tsu


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## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PrennaMama* 
We try to practice CL with our 3.5 yo, and sometimes that age can be very testing with CL... we use the Love and Logic modality too, which has some Virtues Project in it, or maybe it's Love and Logic in the Virtues...







.

Thank for sharing your experience. Could you talk about how living consensually is lined up with the kinds of interactions described in Love and Logic?


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chfriend* 
Thank for sharing your experience. Could you talk about how living consensually is lined up with the kinds of interactions described in Love and Logic?

I'm not sure, personally, that L&L interactions described in their material neccessarily _do_ line up with living consensually, at least on the surface. However I believe that if one is keeping consensuality in the heart of his or her parenting, then L&L provides some excellent tools to use therein.

What I _can_ speak to is how the Virtues program falls in with the principles underlying both of these approaches.

My take on Love and Logic is that it centers around allowing children freedom to be a person who makes mistakes, learning from those mistakes (natural consequences), and enabling more informed decisions the next time around based on what they learned. The parent in the L&L model keeps reaffirming his or her love for the child, instead of getting caught up in a power struggle. Children are in a special position where they often feel powerless, and thus test for power... or a voice. "How much power do I actually have? How much of a vote do I have?" L&L seems to create a behavioral platform for the _parents_, so as to guide parents in their navigation of these testing times. Many parents benefit from having some verbage to pull from, rather than free-styling and possibly reverting to old habits, or pathways their own parents may have erroniuosly taken.

Consensual Living has an approach that in my opinion has the same goal as L&L. Here is a quote from the CL Website that outlines the philosophy briefly...

Quote:

Consensual living is a process, a philosophy, a mindset by which we seek to live in harmony with our families and community. It involves finding mutually agreed upon solutions, where the needs of both parties are not only considered but addressed. Everyone's wants and needs are equally valid, regardless of age. Conflicting wants or needs are discussed and mutually agreeable solutions are created or negotiated which meet the underlying needs of all parties.
We try to use L&L in our CL by not getting too caught up in dd's power-testing... we hear her voice, teaching respect by showing respect, and also teach _self-respect_ by setting healthy boundaries with her. I don't mean we have a bunch of arbitrary rules and consequences. I mean that if dd (or anyone else including dh and strangers) makes a choice that crosses my personal boundaries I am not afraid to tell her about my personal boundary, and work with her to understand and come up with a solution we can both live with.

The Virtues program adds that verbage I referred to earlier, and supports the consensual life-style by acknowledging children as competent individuals who possess the tools to handle a variety of situations... asking parents and teachers to help a child _see_ those tools and get used to accessing them within.

For example, sneaking into my purse to get lip-stick (she is totally into make-up right now







) is something we have been facing lately. I caught dd getting into my purse, pulling everything out, etc... pulling from the Faber-Mazlish How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids WIll Talk approach, I immediately owned _my_ feelings, "I have a problem with people getting into my purse..." Then I went on using L&L by setting a boundary "...Please don't get into my purse without asking me first." And then I shared the Virtue she may be needing guidence in: "When you ask first, that's called being Considerate. Please use your consideration, Dd." Then I asked her to think of a way to resolve the situation so we can both feel good about it. When she got frustrated that she couldn't just go at it in my purse, I reaffirmed that I love her too much to argue with her about my preferences, and let her know I will gladly talk with her about other choices when she wants to talk to me lovingly... like I am talking to her. She stomped off, sulked for a minute, and came back with a hug, an apology, and a polite request to play with my make-up. I said "I am so happy that you're using Consideration! You really thought about it! After I finish what I am doing, I would be glad to play make-up with you..."

Here is a List of Virtues from the Family Virtues Guide, and a quote:

Quote:

Consideration
Consideration is being thoughtful of other people and their feelings. You consider how your actions affect them. You pay careful attention to what others like and don't like, and do things that give them happiness.
I would feel comfortable in that interaction, knowing I honored her person, treated her with repsect, and still set a boundary that worked for me too.

Some folks disagree with or have trouble with CL because it seems to "give away power" but by no means, in my opinion, is CL meant to eliminate anyone's preferences... Parental boundaries and preferences don't cease to exist just because we create a consensual environment where our children have a voice. Rather the consensual parent is challenged to examine and communicate his or her boundaries in a healthy manner that allows for mutually agreeable solutions.

Thank you for your question! I was able to do some research and find information (that I shared in the form of links here) that increased my understanding and helped me bridge CL, L&L, and the VP in a way I hadn't examined until now.


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Just bumping this back up... I think someone may find this thread of value... and I am eager to research more. I did a search of the forum, and accidentally bumped into a thread I had posted on over a year ago, when I first learned about the Virtues Project, and using virtues in my language as a parent. Funny... a year ago I was advising folks to give it a try and then had a few months where I lost my way, and forgot to stick to it. Then here I am back at it.

It has changed the map of our home-communication.

When we get ready to go somewhere, like say Nana's house, or the Children's Museum, I ask dd. "What virtues do you think we should use there?" My 3.5yo usually comes up with at _least_: Kindness, patience, helpfulness, and friendliness.


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## honeysesame (Dec 10, 2005)

i think it sounds interesting. i'd love to hear more examples of how you use it day to day, including introducing the concepts to children that may not be familiar with them (as such).


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## pumpkinseed (Aug 6, 2005)

This sounds interesting and something my dd might respond to-we already use a lot of "our house is a place of peace and we talk to each other respectfully"... although that only works when she is in the right mood-we are knee deep in being disrespectful around here and I am really trying to figure out how to change her attitude because its getting really hard to enjoy being with her lately


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

There are three basic parts to virtues parenting...

Virtues Language
Virtues Acknowledgement
What is known as Spirirtual Companioning, or deep, aware, open-ended listening.
Virtues language begins by introducing the language, the verbage into everyday dialogue. This can be done using visual and even tactile tools, for younger children. There are Virtues Flash cards with a pic on one side and a brief description of the Virtue depicted and then a more in-depth explanation on the back, or you can make cards with your child, using the project as a means to converse about the virtues. Introducing the virtues as "hidden gems within" helps too. Like tools in a tool-box, we take out the virtues we need when we need 'em. We're working on a virtues chart in our place, where Prenna gets to pick the virtues she wants to work on and when we see her using them without being reminded or asked, we acknowledge and she can go get a sticker to put in that spot... She also just likes having gotten to be a part of coming up with the House Virtues (like house rules...)

Prenna and I talk about the virtues a lot... and it has been about 18 mo of talking pretty regularly about them. She is used to me pointing out when she wasn't using virtues, and asking how she might do things differently and what virtue could have been and will be used in the future.

Also, I understand the part about "when he or she is calm, then he or she responds well to logic..." But how do we calm them down??

Calm and peacefulness may be the best virtues to start with.

It has helped to create a place where she can calm down and reflect. In our house, it's called the listening spot. I dislike naughty chairs and time-outs... I call time out when _I_ need one... not for punative reasons. And I think anything that designates a child as naughty will only perpetuate that behavior... So I'd rather perpetuate listening. I sit in the listening spot when I need to, too! When she would flip out (as she still sometimes does) I would tell Prenna, "I see you're having a hard time being calm and in control... I can't understand you and won't be part of this til you have calmed down... would you like help calming down?" Then I sit with her in the listening spot, and we close our eyes, palms up, hands resting on our laps, and take deep breaths. "Tell me when you feel ready to try talking again..." I have had to walk away and let her find her own way to calm down, she says "relaxing it down..."

Virtues acknowledgement is about pointing out the virtues you see being used... ALL THE TIME. The more the better. I'm forever showing gratitude to Prenna and acknowledging her for using her helpfulness, her peacefulness, her thoughfulness, her courtesy... and it's a good way to intro and acclimate kids to the language... "Hey, I noticed you remembered to turn off the light without being asked. That's what I call responsibility." "I saw you give that little one his shoe after it fell off his foot... that was very thoughtful and considerate of you."

*This isn't praise, but acknowledgement.* No "good job!" Just, "I noticed that you did x,y,z, without being asked, that's called ______"

And Spiritual Companioning is all about listening without assigning judgement or blame... say two little ones have a conflict, and one hits or in some other way hurts the other. The virtues parent responds first to the "victim" by acknowledging the "offense"... "I see you're very upset..." and follows up with an open-ended question "What happened?" It is important to keep it as open-ended as possible. Don't try to anticipate answers or predict out-comes. Then, the "perpetrator" is aksed the same open-ended questions... "What do _you_ think happened?" Ideally, in this way, one can move to "What virtues do you guys think were missing? How can we keep this from happening again? Can we do anything now, are there virtues we can use now to make this better for you (us) both?"

It takes some time to get used to and you may get some odd looks... but usually that's just the surprise people feel seeing you speak to child a in a calm, respectful, and loving manner that allows them to arrive at conclusions regarding their own behavior... making a child a part of this process so beats the admonishing cycle. They really respond to it.

Like anything else, at first, it's new and awkward... and the kids notice something is afoot. They notice that we're not totally confident in our new approach... so rather than faking it and hoping for the best, incorporate that into the new apporach... "I want you to know that I am ready to have a peaceful reltaionship with you, and I'm going to show you more respect... I think we can learn a lot from each other about kindness and love, respect and compassion. But I'm new at this, so I hope you will be patient with me."


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

:


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Here's an article that I received today... I loved how it isn't directly related to the VP, but mentions virtuousness...

Quote:

:: Rethinking Consistency ::

Conventional parenting wisdom states that parents
need to "be consistent" in order to maintain their
authority.

Flexible parents -- those who are willing to take in
new information and adjust course on the fly -- are
given labels like wishy-washy, spineless, jellyfish,
waffling, and that shame of shames: permissive!

But isn't flexibility a virtuous trait? Isn't
flexibility needed to thrive in the complex,
fast-changing world of the 21st century?

So if somebody suggests that you should be more
"consistent" tell them you *are* being consistent...

* I'm consistently flexible.
* I'm consistently following my heart.
* I'm consistently trusting my instincts.
* And my love is consistently unconditional.

http://dailygroove.net/consistency

Feel free to forward this message to your friends!
(Please include this paragraph and everything above.)
Copyright (c) 2008 by Scott Noelle

"Inspiration & Coaching for Progressive Parents"
http://www.ScottNoelle.com
http://www.EnjoyParenting.com

Sometimes I say to Prenna, "WIl you please use your flexibility?" She said the other day, "It's hard to be flexibile Mom... but I'll try."


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## pumpkinseed (Aug 6, 2005)

I rec'd that article this morning after signing up for the newsletter yesterday per your suggestion. It really is great to help "put you in the frame of mind" every day just by reading something inspirational-so thank you, Prennamama!! You have really been helpful to me these past few days. I think I am turning a corner.

We had a great morning this morning-we had friends coming over for a late breakfast-so I was sweeping the leaves off the deck this morning before they came over and talking to K about virtues while I was doing it







We are starting to lay the groundwork for it and it feels really good.


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pumpkinseed* 
I rec'd that article this morning after signing up for the newsletter yesterday per your suggestion. It really is great to help "put you in the frame of mind" every day just by reading something inspirational-so thank you, Prennamama!! You have really been helpful to me these past few days. I think I am turning a corner.

We had a great morning this morning-we had friends coming over for a late breakfast-so I was sweeping the leaves off the deck this morning before they came over and talking to K about virtues while I was doing it







We are starting to lay the groundwork for it and it feels really good.









:










































:

It does feel good doesn't it? There's something uplifting about having a new tool in the tool-box.


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## mom22girls (May 5, 2005)

You have inspired me. I feel lke I have lost my way, yesterday was a particularly rough day, one that I don't feel good about. When I opened your post, it really spoke to me. I'm more on the L&L side (in a gentle way) than the CL side, but it's odd, I'm searching for help and I went to a CL website. I'm ordering the book and have combed the VP website looking for information. I'll let you know how it goes. Thank you!!!


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## shantimama (Mar 11, 2002)

I have done the first level of training for the Virtues Project and believe it has some wonderful things to offer families.

There is a book geared towards families put out by the Virtues Project - it is a great resource. We also use the cards in different situations with our children. The school my children attend uses the Virtues Program as well - the kids all love it!


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shantimama* 
I have done the first level of training for the Virtues Project and believe it has some wonderful things to offer families.

Where do you do the training? Are you training as a facilitator?


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## ricemom3 (Jan 29, 2008)

:

I love this. I just found it this morning and it just seems to have struck a chord with me. I just wish dh, who is nowhere near this thought, would check it out.


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## lactivist (Jun 14, 2005)

Thanks for reminding me of this! I have The Virtues Guide that my fil gave me to me about 13 years ago. I have always found it to be really helpful and positive. I just got it out and plan to get back into using it. Not that I don't encourage virtues but I just hadn't been doing anything out of the book for quite a long time. This is perfect timing.








Wendi


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## mum21andtwins (Nov 8, 2007)

THis sounds really interesting I'm sure I'll have questions when I'm done researching.
Whats love and light? when I googled it the first thing to come up for me was this thread so not much use really lol.

Tia!


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom22girls* 
You have inspired me. I feel lke I have lost my way, yesterday was a particularly rough day, one that I don't feel good about. When I opened your post, it really spoke to me. I'm more on the L&L side (in a gentle way) than the CL side, but it's odd, I'm searching for help and I went to a CL website. I'm ordering the book and have combed the VP website looking for information. I'll let you know how it goes. Thank you!!!

Good luck!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shantimama* 
I have done the first level of training for the Virtues Project and believe it has some wonderful things to offer families.

There is a book geared towards families put out by the Virtues Project - it is a great resource. We also use the cards in different situations with our children. The school my children attend uses the Virtues Program as well - the kids all love it!

Hooray! I'm so glad I'm not alone in checking out the the VP... I've never done any formal training, just have a knack with teaching so the core group of teachers in our community asked me to be part of the camp... it was trial by (gentle) fire.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum21andtwins* 
THis sounds really interesting I'm sure I'll have questions when I'm done researching.
Whats love and light? when I googled it the first thing to come up for me was this thread so not much use really lol.

Tia!

L&L is Love and _Logic_, which is a parenting/teaching modality.


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## Papooses (Dec 20, 2006)

52 seems like an awful big task -- like I'd be setting myself up for disappointment....


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## mom22girls (May 5, 2005)

But wouldn't even 5 be worth trying? I found that a lot of them encompass each other. We started with respect, and I found courtesy creep in really quickly. Babysteps here!


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## mum21andtwins (Nov 8, 2007)

yeah I meant love and logic







no idea w







hy I wrote light.
I can't seem to find anything about it though. any links to authors website?

tia







:


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## shantimama (Mar 11, 2002)

I did the first training at a local private school that used the Virtues project extensively in their curriculum. The school just closed, so I am going to have to find another avenue to continue it - I would love to be able to lead the workshops and training for others.

It is such an amazing tool for our family - and I see it used well at the school my children attend and it is good for children and teachers alike.


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Papooses* 
52 seems like an awful big task -- like I'd be setting myself up for disappointment....

I think ultimately there are even more than 52... the idea isn't to attempt memorization and mastery of all of them. Start with the idea that whether youare aware of them or actively using them... all the Virtues of Humanity are hidden gems within you and your children. Then begin just speaking about some of the Virtues that 'call' to you. Like for our family Gentleness, Calm, Kindness, Helpfulness, and Respect were imperative... Respect is a big concept, but as pp alluded to, it encompasses a lot of behaviors and Virtues... like the others I just mentioned.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum21andtwins* 
yeah I meant love and logic







no idea w







hy I wrote light.
I can't seem to find anything about it though. any links to authors website?

tia







:

Here is a link to their website... LoveAndLogic.com

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shantimama* 
I did the first training at a local private school that used the Virtues project extensively in their curriculum. The school just closed, so I am going to have to find another avenue to continue it - I would love to be able to lead the workshops and training for others.

It is such an amazing tool for our family - and I see it used well at the school my children attend and it is good for children and teachers alike.

Have you been to the website yet? There is info there on facillitator training, etc...


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## mum21andtwins (Nov 8, 2007)

Thanks








I have the family virtues book on order it should be here tomorrow. Thanks for posting this







:


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

This is all really interesting. I'm subbing so I can learn more!


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## HipGal (Aug 16, 2006)

I've been doing this without even realizing it was an official method.







Ds is pretty interested in big vocabulary words, so I started saying things like "Thank you for putting your shoes in the shoe rack. That was very responsible!" It has worked really well with him and he is very proud when I say things like that.

I hadn't thought to do it for all kinds of virtues. I'm going to add "flexibility" to my repertoire because we need a lot of practice with that one!


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

I just wanted to take a moment to share this with you: Acceptance and Tolerance... 2 big Virtues we as Humans, striving toward the ideal of living in a tolerant society, and making peace with ourselves as parents, migth meditate on:

Quote:

:: Acceptance vs. Tolerance ::

Acceptance is one of your greatest sources of Power.
Without it, you couldn't receive or own anything,
handle unexpected change, or listen effectively.

In general, acceptance means being at peace with
What Is. When you refuse to accept something, you
sacrifice your peace.

Non-acceptance creates resistance and shifts your focus
away from what you want, towards what you *don't*
want.

Can you see, then, how you disempower and undermine
*yourself* when you deem your child's behavior
"unacceptable"?

But acceptance is not the same as tolerance. It's
entirely possible to accept something while choosing
not to tolerate it. For example, if your child were
trying to hit you, you could accept (make peace with)
that -- even while using protective force to prevent
the hitting.

The difference is how you *feel* in the process:

- Tolerance *without* acceptance leads to resentment.
- Tolerance *with* acceptance leads to appreciation.
- INtolerance *without* acceptance leads to conflict.
- INtolerance *with* acceptance leads to creativity.

In other words, when you accept What Is -- AND you're
clear that you want a change -- it's easy to solve
problems creatively.

http://dailygroove.net/acceptance-vs-tolerance

Feel free to forward this message to your friends!
(Please include this paragraph and everything above.)
Copyright (c) 2008 by Scott Noelle

"Inspiration & Coaching for Progressive Parents"
http://www.ScottNoelle.com
http://www.EnjoyParenting.com

1044 Water Street, Suite 342
Port Townsend, WA 98368
USA


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## Janelovesmax (Feb 17, 2006)

Quote:

I recently began teaching in a pre-k through middle-school-age Virtues-Project Summer Day Camp
I love this thread. It sounds very interesting and I would like to join. How do I start? I need guidance.
Also - are there Camps like that in New York? What is the youngest age?


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## bstandlee (May 14, 2007)

This sounds really cool. I've always felt that there were universal human values/virtues independent of religion and never understood why schools didn't make more of an attempt to teach/acknowledge them. With all of the heightened awareness in the past decades of not wanting to offend anyone who might believe a different religion than you, I think basic human virtues have been taboo as well since so often they go hand in hand with religion.

This movement seems great because it seems like it can focus on bringing out the best in humanity without overstepping someone's religious beliefs: who could be offended by valuing things like courage, responsibility and compassion?!


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## mum21andtwins (Nov 8, 2007)

the book arrived over a week late. I've just started and will be back to let you know what I think








:


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## Danielle13 (Oct 31, 2007)

wow!!







This sounds like it is right up my alley! My dd is only 11months and I'm already struggeling with remaining calm and patient. I suppose now is the time to start working on MY virtues before its time to work with her on hers. Where would I start? Do you have a recommended reading list? Could you give more examples like you did with your purse? I realize that at 11m there is nothing more I can do but redirect but when does virtuous parenting come in to the picture full time? Or is it now?

Perhaps I should start with my marriage? Do you also practice this in other relationships (if your not married) or in your marriage? How does that work?

Thank you for posting this!!

Danielle


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bstandlee* 
This sounds really cool. I've always felt that there were universal human values/virtues independent of religion and never understood why schools didn't make more of an attempt to teach/acknowledge them. With all of the heightened awareness in the past decades of not wanting to offend anyone who might believe a different religion than you, I think basic human virtues have been taboo as well since so often they go hand in hand with religion.

This movement seems great because it seems like it can focus on bringing out the best in humanity without overstepping someone's religious beliefs: who could be offended by valuing things like courage, responsibility and compassion?!

While the VP was developed by the Baha'i community, it isn't linked to 'religion' per se, but rather to the cultivation of the best in us, as a way to 'be' in this world, to navigate the world, and co-exist. Those themes are usually associated with dogma and religious rhetoric, so the message often gets lost.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Danielle13* 
wow!!







This sounds like it is right up my alley! My dd is only 11months and I'm already struggeling with remaining calm and patient. I suppose now is the time to start working on MY virtues before its time to work with her on hers. Where would I start? Do you have a recommended reading list? Could you give more examples like you did with your purse? I realize that at 11m there is nothing more I can do but redirect but when does virtuous parenting come in to the picture full time? Or is it now?

I highly recommend starting with a list of virtues you would like to begin working on. The list "What are the Virtues" is a good place to begin.

Here is a link to "Virtues Store" where there are books, flash-cards, etc. I have a few cd's and a couple of books. The Family Virtues Guide is wonderful.

Quote:

Perhaps I should start with my marriage? Do you also practice this in other relationships (if your not married) or in your marriage? How does that work?

Thank you for posting this!!

Danielle
Ummm... I try to use the Virtues in all aspects of life. With my dh it can be challenging, because he isn't as aware of what he does and says and how it affects dd and me. He is learning tho, as are we all. I try to acknowledge him, just as I do dd, with respect, without being condescending, for the things I see... like "I saw that you vac'd the living room. It looks great! That's really helpful." Or "You have been working really hard, and I am so grateful to you for all that you do. Your strength is inspirational honey!" He laughs at me sometimes cuz he thinks I'm a cheeseball, but he likes it.


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Here's a great story from the other day you all might like:

So, I have been going to physical therapy (for an injury suffered ironically on the way home from Virtues Camp) for a couple of weeks. One of the therapists is in her mid-50's I think and has never had children. She loves children, it just wasn't in the stars for her and her dh. She's wonderfully gifted and warm and loving.

Anyway, I use the virtues dialogue all over the place, all day, and as I've said, I get some funny reactions.

When we first started going, dd would kind of run around and check stuff out, she's very active and inquistitive and used to having the run of places. I figure as long as she's respectful and not harming anyone or thing, she's alright, and these moments are teachable ones, right?

So, sometimes I would be in a postion of having to admonish her, set boundaries, so to speak. SO I would start with explaining where we are, then suggesting what's a course of behavior that's advisable, and asking her to use her helpfulness, her cooperation, her peacefulness, etc:

Quote:

Dd, this is a place of calm and healing where people come to get their hurt-bodies fixed. When you stomp your feet and run around, it's loud and that bothers some folks. Will you please use your calm and peacefulness here? That way others can relax.
She was cool for a bit, but of course, an hour into this, she's getting restless. The therapist and the staff are good about facilitating play, or coloring, or what have you, but it's ultimately my job to set boundaries, etc. So I remind her gently:

Quote:

Remember we talked about using calm and peacefulness? I know you've been here awhile and it's getting hard, but keep using your patience, please... thank you honey!
So the afternoon was getting long, and I realized dd has _really_ been trying to use patience and cooperation, even helping the therapist get pillows, water, etc. So I stop her as she's about to head out again to get _another_ cup of water for me or the therapist, and say:

Quote:

Dd, I've been paying attention, and I just wanted to thank you for using your patience and cooperation. You're being so helpful. Thank you so much.
She smiled and said "Ok Mama!"

The _therapist_ was so stunned by the exchange that she stoppped working and just kind of froze for a moment.

Then _she_ said:

Quote:

In 20 years of therapy, I have *never* heard a parent thank their child for using her patience and cooperation... how amazing. The rapport you have with her is incredible... you show her so much repsect! And she really gets it... and she's so *little*! What wonderful parenting!
I was so proud! Of both of us!!


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## mommyabroad (Dec 2, 2004)

Prennamama -- good to "see" your post. And so funny about the timing because I was in the shower today remembering how years and years ago I was captivated by a program on tv about virtues/values parenting. I recalled a parent walking a child through what virtue he needed to face a difficult situation --courage. With DS starting school today, I am reflecting on this approach and thinking about what it can offer.








:


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

I found a book at a rummage sale our little school did as a fund-raiser called Hang On, Hester! A Story of Courage and the Power of Example. It is dd's new fave book, every night. It's on sale for .75 here.
Here is what I found out when I searched it...

Quote:

[Hang on Hester is] a children's book by Wende and Harry Devlin, designed to spotlight the value and necessity of perseverance in the face of adversity. The book was selected by the Meland Foundation, a New Jersey-based not-for profit organization that donates this book to ill children in hospitals across the country as a means of providing inspiration and encouragement to the children and their families.
Inside our rummage sale edition was an inscription and explanation of the Meland Foundation... We're thinking it was donated to a child and then later donated to the the sale.


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Hi again from Virtues land! We're pluggin away, and many of my friends have adopted the VP approach with great success. Even dh is on-board now and has noticed the changes in dd's behavior.

I had an audition the other night (fingers crossed) and arranged for dd to hang with Auntie, Uncle, and her cousin/best friend who is 4 months her jr. On the way there, I asked what virtues she thought she might need while at the Farmer's Market with Auntie, Uncle and Cousin? She replied, "Ummm... maybe listening. Is listening a virtue mom?"

I said, "Well, there are virtues IN listening. Like respect and couresy. You use those ones all the time..."

"Oh yeah!"

So today I asked sil how it had gone as my bro had seemed tired and cranky when I met them and took dd.

She told me that he was just tired... but then she went on to tell me how remarkably well-behaved, polite, and _awesome_ dd was! Dd and dn often battle for position, and dd has been learning about gentleness and peacefulness, remember? So sil said that she really noticed the change in dd's demeanor. They were on a walk looking for dogs to pat, and each had been given instructions to hold sil's hands and wait til they were given the go-ahead from the dog-owner AND from sil before patting _any_ dog. She said not only did dd wait patiently even when dn broke off and ran up to dogs without waiting (panicking sil and making things hard) but sil was able to say to dn "See how she's using patience? Will you please use your patience too?" And it worked out!

THEN tonight, after I served a yummy new interpretation on gyros (an experiment that went over quite well, actually) dd actually came up and _acknowledged_ ME, saying, "Thank you for the healthy dinner Mama." ANd she gave me a big hug.

I was blown away and so proud and happy!


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## Unity9 (Sep 2, 2008)

PrennaMama said:


> While the VP was developed by the Baha'i community, it isn't linked to 'religion' per se, but rather to the cultivation of the best in us, as a way to 'be' in this world, to navigate the world, and co-exist. Those themes are usually associated with dogma and religious rhetoric, so the message often gets lost.
> 
> Thank you for the Virtue thread PrennaMama. I am very interested in this topic as well. Just became a member on this forum, and I am enjoying reading your post; love the examples you give
> 
> ...


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Janelovesmax* 
I love this thread. It sounds very interesting and I would like to join. How do I start? I need guidance.
Also - are there Camps like that in New York? What is the youngest age?

New York's Baha'i communities are active and large. Generally a camp like the one I worked at is hosted by Baha'is but can be also be hosted by other groups as well! You could start by looking into where your local Baha'i community holds assembly... call 1-800-22-UNITE or check this link for contact info ContactBaha'i. That will help you find Baha'is locally, and they can help you get started at finding out more about Virtues Education programs like the camp I worked in. There's no preassure or obligation, they will be glad to help you, and remember that the Virtues Project can be applied non-denominationally...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bstandlee* 
This movement seems great because it seems like it can focus on bringing out the best in humanity without overstepping someone's religious beliefs: who could be offended by valuing things like courage, responsibility and compassion?!

Right??









Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum21andtwins* 
the book arrived over a week late. I've just started and will be back to let you know what I think








:

How's the book?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Unity9* 
Thank you for the Virtue thread PrennaMama. I am very interested in this topic as well. Just became a member on this forum, and I am enjoying reading your post; love the examples you give









Not sure if anyone if familiar with this book: http://www.amazon.com/Family-Virtues...0321523&sr=8-8

It is a wonderful book for parents and teachers to teach Virtues to children. Also, the website called "Virtueoftheweek.org" was developed by the Baha'i community, is a great resource.

Keep up the good work my friend









Thanks *Unity9*! Welcome to MDC!

For those of you interested, here is a link to the website *Unity9* suggested: Virtue of the Week.

This website is a GREAT place to start, especially if you're wanting inspiration or suggestions. Also, for some of us, working on 52 or more virtues is daunting, but having a focus is helpful, and this website may give you that.

Would anyone be interested in doing an intensive with me over the next two weeks?

It would involve a group (here on thread?) picking a couple of virtues to deepen on, and posting here regularly about how it's going... while we read up on, discuss, craft/paint/write about, and otherwise explore the chosen virtue(s) _with_ our children. We could really help each other to think outside the box and try some new approaches...

Anyone?


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PrennaMama* 
Would anyone be interested in doing an intensive with me over the next two weeks?

It would involve a group (here on thread?) picking a couple of virtues to deepen on, and posting here regularly about how it's going... while we read up on, discuss, craft/paint/write about, and otherwise explore the chosen virtue(s) _with_ our children. We could really help each other to think outside the box and try some new approaches...

Anyone?

I would love to! Please post here when your start the new thread, so I can sub to it!


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## pumpkinseed (Aug 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PrennaMama* 
Would anyone be interested in doing an intensive with me over the next two weeks?

Anyone?

Me-I am in.


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## Unity9 (Sep 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PrennaMama* 
New York's Baha'i communities are active and large. Generally a camp like the one I worked at is hosted by Baha'is but can be also be hosted by other groups as well! You could start by looking into where your local Baha'i community holds assembly... call 1-800-22-UNITE or check this link for contact info ContactBaha'i. That will help you find Baha'is locally, and they can help you get started at finding out more about Virtues Education programs like the camp I worked in. There's no preassure or obligation, they will be glad to help you, and remember that the Virtues Project can be applied non-denominationally...

Right??









How's the book?

Thanks *Unity9*! Welcome to MDC!

For those of you interested, here is a link to the website *Unity9* suggested: Virtue of the Week.

This website is a GREAT place to start, especially if you're wanting inspiration or suggestions. Also, for some of us, working on 52 or more virtues is daunting, but having a focus is helpful, and this website may give you that.

Would anyone be interested in doing an intensive with me over the next two weeks?

It would involve a group (here on thread?) picking a couple of virtues to deepen on, and posting here regularly about how it's going... while we read up on, discuss, craft/paint/write about, and otherwise explore the chosen virtue(s) _with_ our children. We could really help each other to think outside the box and try some new approaches...

Anyone?

Thanks for welcomeing me on this forum. That is a fantastic idea, PrennaMama







: I am in! I have been trying to practice the virtues with my son (age 4 1/2). we pick one virtue every week and try to work on it but the it hasn't been consistent.

As I mentioned in my last post, The Family virtue book is wonderful. It tells you step by step how to practice the virtues with kids. Highly recommending it!

I would love to take one of those virtue training courses that the Baha'i community offers; but it hasn't been one in my area yet. My sister-in-law has gone through the training and she absolutely loved it.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

me me me..I've been watching and reading!

I'm in







:


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Alright, friends! So, I just went to our Baha'i School yesterday, and touched base with some ladies on the subject of Virtues Certification and training, as well as using the VP in parenting. I told them I had started this topic and am hoping they will visit us, too.

As for our intensive... let's begin by deciding what Virtue(s) we would like to focus our energy on in our homes.

In my home, an on-going theme is Respect, but with my almost 4 yo, I try to 'populate' the concept of Respect (which is a huge concept) with the underlying Virtues like Gentleness, Cooperative-ness, Understanding, Patience, Courtesy, and Obedience, most of which are easier for dd to get her head around than the big intangible concept of Respect.

I (and others) shy away from the word Obedience sometimes, because it doesn't feel like it's on the GD/UP/CL spectrum, kwim? BUT, within the VP, I feel it has a less forboding tenor. Obedience, at least in our home, is defined as paying attention to parents, grands, teachers, etc, and doing as one is told in regards to the rules in other people's homes, school, and our own home. If it is a rule that folks may not run on the pavement, then Obedience is honoring that rule with the understanding that it is to keep us safe.

What are your feelings and thoughts on the interpretation of "Obedience" and how can it be applied while still honoring a child's voice and preferences?

What other Virtues would you lke to explore together?


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

And, would those of you interested in the intensive mind if we keep it here on this thread? That way folks that are subbing but maybe not participating may still follow along and benefit from the exploration.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

I am interested in starting with respect, gentleness, cooperative-ness, understanding, patience, courtesy.

I understand the concept of obedience as you describe it. It's not my usual definition of it so I'm not sure if I will ever use the "word" but the concept is fine.

I look forward to this.

Thanks


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## pumpkinseed (Aug 6, 2005)

I agree with those as starting virtues. It is the same in our house-we really value respect and therefore the others come along naturally. I never really thought of the concept of "respect" being too big-but it makes sense when you are talking about breaking it down into the other virtues as well-courtesy, gentleness, etc...

I like your explanation of obedience. It doesn't have to be a "harsh" word when described as you have-that is about following rules in others houses, etc...

I am looking forward to this. K is really having some difficult days. Yesterday was horrible - today is going really well







Its so much ups and downs though that it is exhausting!


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## BonMaman (Sep 25, 2005)

Subbing... We are really seeking to cultivate virtue in our children.







for the links and the discussion.


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## Unity9 (Sep 2, 2008)

It would be wonderful if we could start with respect, gentleness, cooperative-ness, understanding, patience, courtesy.

I think we all need those most with our children. Recently, I've been having some issues with cooperativeness!!









Hope we can practice these virtues soon with real life examples


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Unity9* 
It would be wonderful if we could start with respect, gentleness, cooperative-ness, understanding, patience, courtesy.

I think we all need those most with our children. Recently, I've been having some issues with cooperativeness!!









Hope we can practice these virtues soon with real life examples









One thing I do, that works well with dd, is to clarify constantly. I don't introduce, discuss, or acknowledge a virtue without defining it a few times . Like with Cooperation, I asked dd outright if she knew what the "virtue, Cooperation" was, and when she said no, I asked if she would like to know, then defined it as "Working together to make things happen more easily, or more quickly... like working as a team." Short quips, and reminder questions come in forms like: (on our way into first day of ballet class)

Me: "So what Virtues do you think you'll use in there?"
Dd: "umm... respect?"
Me: "sure... and what does respect _look_ like?" I ask very earnestly.
Dd: "Listening ears, and cooperation."
Me: "Cooperation is..."
Dd: "... working together to make things happen more easily." She says it confidantly, and with a smile.
Me: "OH!" I say as tho I have had some clarification. "Ok, then.. I'll be watching for those..."
Dd: "K Mama... I'kk be watching you too!"

We both laughed.

And I do watch for ANY of the behaviors we want to see more of, then acknowledge them (not praise), as a way to positively manifest and refinforce them. I think that piece is really important.

There are some games I'm wanting to try with dd that might be useful in teaching the concepts of cooperation, gentleness, and courtesy. Maybe we can brainstorm ways to adapt them to Virtues Teaching/Parenting.

Also, I just saw an ad for Noodleboro Games by Hasbro... they highlight and encourage the practice of certain "personality characteristics" like sharing, manners, etc... Here's a link to their site: Noodleboro Games and a quote from the site re; a game centered on Listening (part of courtesy, enables obedience and I cringe when I say it...







):

Quote:

NOODLEBORO games let you nurture kids' social skills naturally through multi-sensory play that leaves everyone laughing! Each NOODLEBORO game comes with a storybook and an audio CD so kids can see, hear, play and then live each NOODLEBORO life lesson. Meet the NOODLEBORO kids and reinforce listening with songs, stories and tips found in the companion book and CD.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

So we started. This morning I said to my almost 3 and 5 year old as we were getting ready to go out to school.

conversation went like this

Me "So I am going to start teaching you the virtues"

5yr old "What does that mean?"

Me "The virtues are a lot of different things we can learn to help make our family and our life really peaceful and happy. You already know some like patience, respect"

"Oh, ok".

Me "Yeah there are a lot like cooperation, respect, courtesy, things like that. Do you know what any of those words mean."

5yr old "I don't know courtesy"

So I go on to explain what they mean. She's thrilled. She loves new words. Little one, who will be three in October is listening carefully as well.

Then when we get back from taking her to school little one doesn't want to get out of the car because she wants to go to mother goose. I said remember how we talked about cooperation and how if we work together we can get things done better and easier and faster?

She goes "yeah" and then I say"well if we practice cooperation now we can get ready to go to mother goose, you come inside and wait while mommy gets ready and then we can go" and she puts up her arms and comes out of the carseat









I think they are both ready to learn. I'm very excited to begin practicing this.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PrennaMama* 
I (and others) shy away from the word Obedience sometimes, because it doesn't feel like it's on the GD/UP/CL spectrum, kwim? BUT, within the VP, I feel it has a less forboding tenor. Obedience, at least in our home, is defined as *paying attention to* parents, grands, teachers, etc, and doing as one is told in regards to the rules in other people's homes, school, and our own home. If it is a rule that folks may not run on the pavement, then Obedience is honoring that rule with the understanding that it is to keep us safe.

What are your feelings and thoughts on the interpretation of "Obedience" and how can it be applied while still honoring a child's voice and preferences?

Bolding mine. This is an interesting issue for me as a Christian! We recently got a New Testament called _The Source_: Old manuscripts have been discovered that shed new light on the meanings of many words that were previously unclear to translators, which had caused many to add their own cultural and religious biases to their tranlstions.

So, a Greek scholar did _The Source_ translation -- it's a literal word-for-word translation of the Greek, using the newly-available information about word-meanings. Anyhow, in Ephesians where it tells children to obey their parents -- in _The_ _Source_ it tells children to pay attention to their parents, like what you said!


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## Unity9 (Sep 2, 2008)

I found some beautiful Baha'i writings about importance of teaching virtues to children. I thought I would share it with you all:

"As to thy question concerning training children: It is incumbent upon thee to nurture them from the breast of the love of God, to urge them towards spiritual matters, to turn unto God and to acquire good manners, best characteristics and praiseworthy virtues and qualities in the world of humanity, and to study sciences with the utmost diligence; so that they may become spiritual, heavenly and attracted to the fragrances of sanctity from their childhood and be reared in a religious, spiritual and heavenly training. Verily, I beg of God to confirm them therein.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Tablets of Abdu'l-Baha v1, p. 86)

Therefore, the beloved of God and the maid-servants of the Merciful must train their children with life and heart and teach them in the school of virtue and perfection. They must not be lax in this matter; they must not be inefficient.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 398)

I ask God to help thy children to gain knowledge, to attain virtues and morals which are the refinements of the reality of man, and to strengthen thee to remain firm.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Tablets of Abdu'l-Baha v1, p. 67)


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

I am having a fantastic day with my littlest one. We have been practicing all day. She's listening. I don't know how much she understands but she seems fascinated by it.

We have done a lot of cooperation today. We had to go to a program this morning and she was very helpful at the store after and got in her carseat every time.

I also like how it gets me engaged more. It's good for it to be at the top of my consciousness as well.


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## I-AM-Mother (Aug 6, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls* 
I also like how it *gets me engaged more*. It's good for it to *be at the top of my consciousness* as well.

okay, anything that gets these results with my family especially my children peaks my interest.


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## Unity9 (Sep 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PrennaMama* 
One thing I do, that works well with dd, is to clarify constantly. I don't introduce, discuss, or acknowledge a virtue without defining it a few times . Like with Cooperation, I asked dd outright if she knew what the "virtue, Cooperation" was, and when she said no, I asked if she would like to know, then defined it as "Working together to make things happen more easily, or more quickly... like working as a team." Short quips, and reminder questions come in forms like: (on our way into first day of ballet class)

Me: "So what Virtues do you think you'll use in there?"
Dd: "umm... respect?"
Me: "sure... and what does respect _look_ like?" I ask very earnestly.
Dd: "Listening ears, and cooperation."
Me: "Cooperation is..."
Dd: "... working together to make things happen more easily." She says it confidantly, and with a smile.
Me: "OH!" I say as tho I have had some clarification. "Ok, then.. I'll be watching for those..."
Dd: "K Mama... I'kk be watching you too!"

We both laughed.

And I do watch for ANY of the behaviors we want to see more of, then acknowledge them (not praise), as a way to positively manifest and refinforce them. I think that piece is really important.

There are some games I'm wanting to try with dd that might be useful in teaching the concepts of cooperation, gentleness, and courtesy. Maybe we can brainstorm ways to adapt them to Virtues Teaching/Parenting.

Also, I just saw an ad for Noodleboro Games by Hasbro... they highlight and encourage the practice of certain "personality characteristics" like sharing, manners, etc... Here's a link to their site: Noodleboro Games and a quote from the site re; a game centered on Listening (part of courtesy, enables obedience and I cringe when I say it...







):

Just checked them out on amazon.com website with almost half of the price pluse free shipping!! Thanks for sharing! I guess we should give them a try


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Tonight at a council meeting for our school I did childcare for some of the parents. I overheard dd telling a story to the other kids, regarding a running-around careless fella she had witnessed at a play-place earlier today, who kept trampling the toddlers/wobblers in the matted baby-area, leaping over the mats, until eventually I intervened as his mother didn't seem to be present:

Dd: ".. he was running around and yelling and pushed over little babies! His Mama didn't talk to him about being gentle or _anything_... But I think he should learn virtues to use, then he woulda played nicer, maybe."
Kid 1: "What? What can he learn?"
Dd: "Virtues... like 'copperation' and 'respeck-t' and maybe his Mama could help him."
Kid 2: "His Mama didn't help him with the babies. Maybe she doesn't know virtues."
Kid 1: "What are virtues again?"
Dd: "Helping things for being nice and loving, and making friends."
Kid 2: "His Mama should show him one for being nice to babies."
Dd: "_My_ mama did. She asked him for copperation to pick up mats and make it safer so he could run and not bump the babies."
Kid 1: "Well, my mom could help too, she always tells me to have respeck."

I noticed the little guy seemed to be flying solo, and asked a couple of ladies if they knew who his mom was; one said she thought she saw her go into the restroom... So, I leaned into the garden and picked up a mat, and kinda put my rather round body in his path so that the next time he came around, I was in his way and he had to stop. I acted like I was falling over and said "Whoops! Slow down there, race-car... I was nearly knocked over... I saw some of the smaller kids getting knocked over too." He just looked at me. I went on: "I see that you wanna go really fast _BUT_ please help me figure out a way you can do it that is safe for everybody. Can you run in another area?"

"No," he said, "this is the race track." It was circular. "Okay then," I said "What is _your_ idea?"

He suggested moving the little ones. I answered that since it's actually a baby-area, we couldn't move them... _Where was his mother?_ I kept thinking.

"How about we put up a few mats, together, so that the babies don't walk over into your running track?" I asked. He agreed and soon we had dd and this boy, as well as a couple others all lifting sections of mats and stacking them about a foot high which worked beautifully to deter the wobblers from coming out on the harder floor, and encouraged them to stay on the mats, while the boy and a couple others were able to run around the mats not leaping over little ones. When we were done, and they looked pleased with what they had done, I said "WOW! That was so much cooperation! What great team-work! Look at what you guys did when you worked together!"

"Yeah! We're a great team!" he said...

Pretty cute.

His mom was apparently in the nursing room that looks over the play-area, and watching the whole time. She came out shortly and thanked me for the way I spoke to her son, and she was beside herself becaus tho she saw what he was doing, she was nursing and would have had 2 meltdowns with trying to disengage baby and also redirect her son. But she said she was thrilled and amazed to see how he reacted because he usually just yells and runs from folks. Yay Virtues!


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## Unity9 (Sep 2, 2008)

Dd: ".. he was running around and yelling and pushed over little babies! His Mama didn't talk to him about being gentle or _anything_... But I think he should learn virtues to use, then he woulda played nicer, maybe."
Kid 1: "What? What can he learn?"
Dd: "Virtues... like 'copperation' and 'respeck-t' and maybe his Mama could help him."
Kid 2: "His Mama didn't help him with the babies. Maybe she doesn't know virtues."
Kid 1: "What are virtues again?"
Dd: "Helping things for being nice and loving, and making friends."
Kid 2: "His Mama should show him one for being nice to babies."
Dd: "_My_ mama did. She asked him for copperation to pick up mats and make it safer so he could run and not bump the babies."
Kid 1: "Well, my mom could help too, she always tells me to have respeck."

Soooooooo Cute and adorable!!!!


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## Unity9 (Sep 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PrennaMama* 
Tonight at a council meeting for our school I did childcare for some of the parents. I overheard dd telling a story to the other kids, regarding a running-around careless fella she had witnessed at a play-place earlier today, who kept trampling the toddlers/wobblers in the matted baby-area, leaping over the mats, until eventually I intervened as his mother didn't seem to be present:

Dd: ".. he was running around and yelling and pushed over little babies! His Mama didn't talk to him about being gentle or _anything_... But I think he should learn virtues to use, then he woulda played nicer, maybe."
Kid 1: "What? What can he learn?"
Dd: "Virtues... like 'copperation' and 'respeck-t' and maybe his Mama could help him."
Kid 2: "His Mama didn't help him with the babies. Maybe she doesn't know virtues."
Kid 1: "What are virtues again?"
Dd: "Helping things for being nice and loving, and making friends."
Kid 2: "His Mama should show him one for being nice to babies."
Dd: "_My_ mama did. She asked him for copperation to pick up mats and make it safer so he could run and not bump the babies."
Kid 1: "Well, my mom could help too, she always tells me to have respeck."

I noticed the little guy seemed to be flying solo, and asked a couple of ladies if they knew who his mom was; one said she thought she saw her go into the restroom... So, I leaned into the garden and picked up a mat, and kinda put my rather round body in his path so that the next time he came around, I was in his way and he had to stop. I acted like I was falling over and said "Whoops! Slow down there, race-car... I was nearly knocked over... I saw some of the smaller kids getting knocked over too." He just looked at me. I went on: "I see that you wanna go really fast _BUT_ please help me figure out a way you can do it that is safe for everybody. Can you run in another area?"

"No," he said, "this is the race track." It was circular. "Okay then," I said "What is _your_ idea?"

He suggested moving the little ones. I answered that since it's actually a baby-area, we couldn't move them... _Where was his mother?_ I kept thinking.

"How about we put up a few mats, together, so that the babies don't walk over into your running track?" I asked. He agreed and soon we had dd and this boy, as well as a couple others all lifting sections of mats and stacking them about a foot high which worked beautifully to deter the wobblers from coming out on the harder floor, and encouraged them to stay on the mats, while the boy and a couple others were able to run around the mats not leaping over little ones. When we were done, and they looked pleased with what they had done, I said "WOW! That was so much cooperation! What great team-work! Look at what you guys did when you worked together!"

"Yeah! We're a great team!" he said...

Pretty cute.

His mom was apparently in the nursing room that looks over the play-area, and watching the whole time. She came out shortly and thanked me for the way I spoke to her son, and she was beside herself becaus tho she saw what he was doing, she was nursing and would have had 2 meltdowns with trying to disengage baby and also redirect her son. But she said she was thrilled and amazed to see how he reacted because he usually just yells and runs from folks. Yay Virtues!

Good work my friend! These stories are very helpful. Boys are just different from girls. My DS just learned the definition of Cooperation yesterday and we are working on it more. Sometimes, it's hard for him to focus! But it has been less struggle


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls* 
I think they are both ready to learn. I'm very excited to begin practicing this.

Isn't it amazing how our dc's will signal to us their readiness to learn? I'm really excited to see your success!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *I-AM-Mother* 
okay, anything that gets these results with my family especially my children peaks my interest.

Welcome to Virtues Parenting!! Make sure to take a look at some of the links for resource material!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Unity9* 
My DS just learned the definition of Cooperation yesterday and we are working on it more. Sometimes, it's hard for him to focus! But it has been less struggle









Remember that Focus is a Virtue, too, and very much a part of Respect. I wonder what kind of exercises we can teach our children to cultivate Focus?

Dd got very upset a few times in the past few days; I suspect she may be rebelling a little at the intensive, with all this attention on her and her understanding of cooperation in respect. BUT I was able to _use_ that as a teachable moment. When she retaliated against my requests for cooperation by sticking her tongue out and spitting at me, I repsonded by acknowledging that it "looks like you're very frustrated right now. I can see that, but I really can't be part of the spitting and stuff; I respect you a lot, Dd, and I don't want to hurt your feelings getting frustrated, so I'm choosing to cool off until we can respect _eachother_ again."

She came around shortly and said "I'm ready now mama."

"Ready to respect eachother again?" I asked.

"Yes, mama. I'm sorry for spitting. I was really mad." she explained.

We went on to have a long conversation about what had her so mad, and how best to use our repsect when we're mad so that we can get our points across without folks having to walk away and cool off in order to participate in the communicating...

Later, (tonight, actually) when I was just _done_ with trying to communicate and be patient, and ready to get her off to bed, she was hauling out toys from the bin beside the couch (in the nicely tidied living room) much to my frustration, so I got a little huffy and said, "Dd, no. It's enough. It's time to make your way to bed, not time to total the living room by tearing all the toys out."

She ran across the room, flung herself to the floor and wailed something barely understandable about getting something to sleep with... _Oh,_ I thought. _Whoops... I could have asked what she was doing, and if I could help..._ So I asked her to come to me, gave her hug and said, "You were trying to find a friend to come to bed with you?" A very sad dd said, "Yes." "Ah," I said, "I see. Mama was not showing respect when I got snappy, was I?" "No." she said, looking down. "Who were you looking for? Maybe I can help you..." She brightened right up, told me which doll she was after, and when we found her doll, she said... "Mama! We did it! We found her! Thank you for being helpful and copperating!"








It's so great when it works!







: (even when _I'm_ not working so well!)


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## BonMaman (Sep 25, 2005)

I have perused this thread before and just joined the other day. On that day, I broached the subject with my 3yo DS1: "DS1, do you know what the word 'virtue' means? Virtues are what's good inside us [I read that on the Virtues Project website and thought it was great] -- things like respect, patience, gentleness... Let's practice our virtues together. We'll help each other. What do you think?" He responded so positively; it's made an immediate difference.







: I'd say something like "practice your virtue of gentleness" (with his little brother) or, when he would take something from his brother "that was not virtuous. Please practice your virtue of gentleness and ask him for it first." He'd return whatever he took and ask him respectfully to trade or whatever.

This approach seems to really resonate with him. I hope we can build from here!


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BonMaman* 
I have perused this thread before and just joined the other day. On that day, I broached the subject with my 3yo DS1: "DS1, do you know what the word 'virtue' means? Virtues are what's good inside us [I read that on the Virtues Project website and thought it was great] -- things like respect, patience, gentleness... Let's practice our virtues together. We'll help each other. What do you think?" He responded so positively; it's made an immediate difference.







: I'd say something like "practice your virtue of gentleness" (with his little brother) or, when he would take something from his brother "that was not virtuous. Please practice your virtue of gentleness and ask him for it first." He'd return whatever he took and ask him respectfully to trade or whatever.

This approach seems to really resonate with him. I hope we can build from here!









This is great! Your verbage is perfect, especially high-lighting that the desired behavior is a _virtue_, something I don't always do... I think I'll try to remember that.

Dh is on-board now too, committed to helping dd remember to use her virtues...

It's helpful, too, as *BonMaman* mentioned above, to remind our dc's that these virtues aren't new, but are already inside them, waiting to be used... We call them the "hidden gems within"...


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

We have been doing a lot of talking. Mostly talking. They are SO receptive and fascinated by this. It's really really super cool. I told them we are basically putting names on things we already try to do so it's not so confusing. They LOVE it and I'm sure my little one who is almost 3 is getting it too.


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## Unity9 (Sep 2, 2008)

O well, we were doing great but I lost it tonight







My DS (4 1/2)& DD(16 mo)were bathing in the tub together. My DD poured the whole bucket of water outside the tub all over the floor; It was like IKE hit our bathroom floor. I got a bit frustrated and couldn't say much to a 16 mo. So, few minutes later my DS does the same thing (copying her) and I just lost it (i guess mostly because I am suffering from a cold). I didn't know at that moment what virtue to call upon so.... Then felt bad for losing myself.







My husband turned to me saying with sarcasm "positive parenting??????"

Do you lose it too? What would you do if you had the above scenario?


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Yes, I lose it too sometimes.

In similar situations, I talk about the effect the water has on the floor, that it can damage it and also make it slick, and so on. And sometimes I do lose it. When that happens, it's best just to apologize, give hugs, and go on. At least our kids get to see there's life after losing it.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

We have a playgroup today. This is generally challenging. The kids are well rested, fed etc. so we are going to talk about the virtues we will need today and see how it goes.

I'll report back and get feedback later.


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Unity9* 
O well, we were doing great but I lost it tonight







My DS (4 1/2)& DD(16 mo)were bathing in the tub together. My DD poured the whole bucket of water outside the tub all over the floor; It was like IKE hit our bathroom floor. I got a bit frustrated and couldn't say much to a 16 mo. So, few minutes later my DS does the same thing (copying her) and I just lost it (i guess mostly because I am suffering from a cold). I didn't know at that moment what virtue to call upon so.... Then felt bad for loosing myself.







My husbad turned to me saying with sarcasm "positive parenting??????"

Do you lose it too? What would you do if you had the above scenario?

I lost it today, as a matter of fact...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 







Yes, I lose it too sometimes.

In similar situations, I talk about the effect the water has on the floor, that it can damage it and also make it slick, and so on. And sometimes I do lose it. When that happens, it's best just to apologize, give hugs, and go on. At least our kids get to see there's life after losing it.

















Indeed, all of that is true. A big one in our house (and in keeping with the theme of Cooperation as part of Respect) is Accountability. For all parties. That means that after I _do_ lose it, I am accountable. I apologize, I acknowledge that _I_ was not using _my_ respect, or patience, and make a promise to try hard to work on remembering to be patient and gentle and respectful... love and hugs and kisses galore follow...

This models the important virtues involved in self-acceptance. Everyone makes mistakes, even moms. We all lose it, and we can all rebound. WHat better way for them to learn thatn to see that vulnerability in action?

*Unity9*, dd _has_ in fact dumped an entire bucket of water out onto the bathroom floor... Arg!!







: And I have had a come-apart about it. And then I foloowed with handing her a towel with a "Well, now we will cooperate to clean this up, because this much water could really wreck the floor, dd. So use your helpfulness, please." Then while cleaning it up, I asked if she felt like that was respecting our house, or being obedient, when she dumped the water out like that. (Obedient is defined in our house as doing as we are asked when we are asked to do it, so as to follow rules that keep us, our home, and people around us safe and sound.) And she says no, so I asked her "Well, do you plan to do this again? Because I really have a problem with it." "No, mama..." she said. "What virtues can you use next time, so this doesn't happen again?" "I will use respeck, Mama..." "What does that look like?" I asked. "It looks like no pouring water out on the floor, because that makes you angry..." I felt bad, thinking _I'm transmitting the wrong message here..._ So I tried again. "Dd, I'm just angry at the mess and the time it takes to clean up, I'm angry that the floor might have rot from getting too wet. But I'm not really angry at _you_. I'm using my understanding, and I know that you didn't mean to trash the floor... but still you knew it would not be alright to dump the water out on the floor, and so I _am_ frustrated. I understand that you didn't know what a mess it would make, how bad it can be for the floor, _or_ how frustrated I would get. Please respect our house _because you know now that this isn't ok, and you know *why*._ Ok?" She said "OH! SO, respect the house, because it could get rot from getting wet?" _Close enough_, I thought. "Yes! You got it!" Hugs, kisses, and apologies from her for the mess, and from me for the barking reaction...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls* 
We have a playgroup today. This is generally challenging. The kids are well rested, fed etc. so we are going to talk about the virtues we will need today and see how it goes.

I'll report back and get feedback later.


I look forward to your report!!


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## Unity9 (Sep 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PrennaMama* 
I lost it today, as a matter of fact...








Indeed, all of that is true. A big one in our house (and in keeping with the theme of Cooperation as part of Respect) is Accountability. For all parties. That means that after I _do_ lose it, I am accountable. I apologize, I acknowledge that _I_ was not using _my_ respect, or patience, and make a promise to try hard to work on remembering to be patient and gentle and respectful... love and hugs and kisses galore follow...

This models the important virtues involved in self-acceptance. Everyone makes mistakes, even moms. We all lose it, and we can all rebound. WHat better way for them to learn thatn to see that vulnerability in action?

*Unity9*, dd _has_ in fact dumped an entire bucket of water out onto the bathroom floor... Arg!!







: And I have had a come-apart about it. And then I foloowed with handing her a towel with a "Well, now we will cooperate to clean this up, because this much water could really wreck the floor, dd. So use your helpfulness, please." Then while cleaning it up, I asked if she felt like that was respecting our house, or being obedient, when she dumped the water out like that. (Obedient is defined in our house as doing as we are asked when we are asked to do it, so as to follow rules that keep us, our home, and people around us safe and sound.) And she says no, so I asked her "Well, do you plan to do this again? Because I really have a problem with it." "No, mama..." she said. "What virtues can you use next time, so this doesn't happen again?" "I will use respeck, Mama..." "What does that look like?" I asked. "It looks like no pouring water out on the floor, because that makes you angry..." I felt bad, thinking _I'm transmitting the wrong message here..._ So I tried again. "Dd, I'm just angry at the mess and the time it takes to clean up, I'm angry that the floor might have rot from getting too wet. But I'm not really angry at _you_. I'm using my understanding, and I know that you didn't mean to trash the floor... but still you knew it would not be alright to dump the water out on the floor, and so I _am_ frustrated. I understand that you didn't know what a mess it would make, how bad it can be for the floor, _or_ how frustrated I would get. Please respect our house _because you know now that this isn't ok, and you know *why*._ Ok?" She said "OH! SO, respect the house, because it could get rot from getting wet?" _Close enough_, I thought. "Yes! You got it!" Hugs, kisses, and apologies from her for the mess, and from me for the barking reaction...


Thank you PrennaMama for your feedback. So, you had the same situation, too!! So, frustrating! I usually tell DS to close the shower curtain if he wants to splash water. But that night was the first time anything like that happened








So, I wasn't prepared for it







. Good for you that you ended in the right way. I love these discussions







: I am learning so much. Thanks a lot *PrennaMama*

Actually, right now I am going through choosing parenting method crises








I have been trying to use L&L, UP, VP altogether. I have purchased books in those topics and read the forums especially this one. But as I do more reading and searching, I get more confused. There are some matters in each method (except for VP ) that I can't agree with. I wish I could just stick with one method and feel good about it. What do you all do? Do you use a combination of all those methods or just one?


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Unity9* 
<snip>
There are some matters in each method (except for VP ) that I can't agree with. I wish I could just stick with one method and feel good about it. What do you all do? Do you use a combination of all those methods or just one?

I use what speaks to me from each of the different teachings or styles I'm attracted to. I llike to look at each parenting philosophy and approach as a tool for my tool-kit. Where L&L fails me, I lean more heavily on CL modality. Where Faber and Mazlish leave me blank, I draw upon Playful Parenting. But underlying it all (at least, now, for _our_ family) is the Virtues Project.


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## LucyRev (Apr 20, 2003)

Hi everyone! I love the idea of the VP and I'm definitely going to look into it more. Possibly also for DD's school. It sounds absolutely wonderful!

PrennaMama, we met at KateMary's house one time! I think it was her DD's b-day. We talked about how we're all Sag's and we were all born in the same year and I don't remember what else. Oh and how you worked for some Koreans... (this is all so random, sorry everyone.) I take it you are a Baha'i? I grew up Baha'i! I'm not anti Baha'i or anything now, but we stopped attending feasts and firesides and Baha'i school, etc for some reason when I was about 14 so I just fell out of it. It had a great positive impact on me though. I wish I still had my One People One Planet Please t-shirt.

I'll go back to lurking now, and checking out some of those links.


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## RasJi7 (Sep 25, 2007)

Coming out. I've been lurking since the thread was started. I've been intrigued from the start. I have a 6 month old and was already pointing out virtues to him- now I have a whole list of them to look for in our day to day lives.

This is a quote of Yogi Bhajan's that really resonates with what I want to be as a parent

Quote:

Look at the animals. Have you watched birds build a home? They make the best homes. Without even hands, just with their beaks they put it together into a beautiful nest. Without all your sophisticated understanding, sensitivity, and subtlety, they can make a better home, and feed the young ones neither too little nor too much. Then they take the young ones and teach them to fly. They teach them the art and power of their genetic strength that came with them. Then they are happy and they let them go.

Do you teach each other as well as the birds do? Do you teach your children? Do you remind each child and say, 'BE THE GREATEST PERSON. BE A UNIVERSAL PERSON. BE VAST. LIVE LIGHTLY AND FORGIVE ALL. LISTEN. LOVE. LEARN. EXCEL. LIVE.
When Jahmari doesn't roll over and crawl away during pamper changes I tell him thank you for your cooperation









I love the idea of VP. I also like thanking LO's for using their virtues rather than praising. It is different right? I'm kind of fuzzy on that part of it. When Jahmari is trying to do something new what virtue can I call out instead of just saying 'GREAT JOB!'? Maybe 'great determination'

Thank you for this thread- VP is really resonating with me and feels like a great fit for my personality and what I want to encourage in my family. Can't wait to get my husband on board.


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LucyRev* 
<snip>
PrennaMama, we met at KateMary's house one time! <snip>
I take it you are a Baha'i? <snip>









Hey *LucyRev*! Glad to see you here on the board! Yes, we declared as Baha'is a couple months before dd was born, and she was born on November 12. It was actually the Baha'i _children_ we encountered and the VP approach to educating children that really spoke to us and drew us to the Baha'i Faith. We wanted to give her the gift of growing up in such an amazing community. The Virtues Project is such a great reflection of the diversity, expansiveness, forward thinking, and evolved way of relating to other cultures, other peoples, other faiths, that Baha'is embrace.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RasJi7* 
Coming out. I've been lurking since the thread was started. I've been intrigued from the start. I have a 6 month old and was already pointing out virtues to him- now I have a whole list of them to look for in our day to day lives.

<snip>

When Jahmari doesn't roll over and crawl away during pamper changes I tell him thank you for your cooperation









I love the idea of VP. I also like thanking LO's for using their virtues rather than praising. It is different right? I'm kind of fuzzy on that part of it. When Jahmari is trying to do something new what virtue can I call out instead of just saying 'GREAT JOB!'? Maybe 'great determination'

Thank you for this thread- VP is really resonating with me and feels like a great fit for my personality and what I want to encourage in my family. Can't wait to get my husband on board.

Even just acknowledging his effort is a good way to support him, as in: "Wow, you are _really_ trying to get up and walk. Go Jahmari, go!" or "I can see your determination, you have such _focus_."

One that I love using with dd is: "I didn't know you could do that!"


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## forrestguy (Mar 6, 2008)

Looks like the last post in this thread was about a month ago, but this has reminded about the Virtues Guide, which we were using for a while and then put away. I need to revise the way we were using it, though. We were having a family meeting every week and picking a virtue from the book. The problem is, we ended up only talking about the virtue that morning and not following through, using it the rest of the week. How would you recommend incorporating all of them into your week before you've gone over all of them? Do we need to really sit down and, like, do a virtue a day until we get them all just so that we're familiar with all of them, or stick with the one a week thing?


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

My report.

Well we went to Mother Goose. Virtues helped a lot because the little one was horrid. But her sister was awesome. When my almost three year old started screaming on the way in that she wanted to go home I knew we were in for it. I said to my 5 year old "I really think we are going to have to use our virtues with M. today" and she said "we are going to need a lot of patience" and I said "and I'm going to need cooperation" and all the while little one is screaming "don't talk, stop talking, I want to go home"

So we get to Mother goose and it goes very well. Little one calms down and participates. Then it's time to leave. She won't leave, she's on the floor in a bundle, "I don't want to go home"







and "I don't want those shoes" and so on. So we finally get her cooperating which means I carry her and big sis carries my stuff and then we get in the car and she screams all the way home "I want Mother Goose, don't want to go home"

So I held it together and 5 year old held it together







We were very "virtuous"









Once we got home little one was fine, ate a HUGE lunch which is probably what the problem was, hunger although she ate a substantial breakfast before we left. But she is having a hunge growth spurt lately, gained 4lbs over the summer and still growing.

Today I have the little one home, all the others are at school so we are talking a lot today about virtues. She's in a great mood so far today, we did groceries and she was very patient and cooperative and respectful. She's not even three so she's still very little to be able to control her emotions yet.

I think it's going well overall!


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## pumpkinseed (Aug 6, 2005)

So glad that it went well at Mother Goose time!

I have been having great days but today has been downright horrible







I don't even know where to begin. I had to bodily carry my almost 4 yr old out of playgroup today. I have had to do that only one other time in her life and then it was to remove her from a situation that I was tired of-not her fault. Today-it was due to not listening-in hindsight it is so silly. We were only staying for an hour-she ate a Nutrigrain bar and then came back and asked for another one as she already had it in her hand and was trying to open it.

I said no thank you-you have already had one (there weren't enough there for everyone to have 2-just one)

and then she said no i want it and continued trying to open it.

I said I see that you are hungry-we are leaving in a few minutes anyway-if you are hungry we will have lunch as soon as we get home (we live not even 5 min away)

she replied with "no-i want it"

I said again "no thank you, please hand me the bar back"

no (w. an attitude)

At which point I tell her I am going to take the bar if she doesn't hand it to me-she again refuses with an attitude and I pry it out of her little hands.

She then throws herself bodily on the ground and cries and screams and continues to have a tantrum. I tell her that we are leaving and to please go up the stairs-she refuses-I then pick her up, carry her up the stairs and put her in the car. I realize this is not the thing I should have been doing-it was one of those days. It started out bad-she was fine at breakfast and then I had to make a phone call and of course, all heck broke loose while on the phone which is what she typically does. I was tired of it and told her that she was not using her respect and patience and that she needed to be respectful if we were going to be around other people at playgroup. I told her we would be leaving if she was not respectful. When she started in with the attitude we left. I admit that I am sick and tired of her attitude. It has gotten a lot better, but today has been horrible. We then reconnected over lunch and had popcorn as a treat afterwards. However, she then started in with the attitude and not listening again -not washing her hands after going to the bathroom and walking away from me as I am asking her to go wash her hands-not going to budge on hygiene. Sorry this is so long. I am just so tired today. Thanks for listening. The virtues have been working great-just not today and I admit I think I have been too tired today to appropriately try to use them. She did say as we were pulling into our driveway after playgroup "I do not want to have a conversation when we go inside"-knowing I would talk to her about her behaviour at playgroup. Ugh. Why is 3 so difficult???


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *forrestguy* 
<snip> How would you recommend incorporating all of them into your week before you've gone over all of them? Do we need to really sit down and, like, do a virtue a day until we get them all just so that we're familiar with all of them, or stick with the one a week thing?

How old are your dc's? With younger children, I think it's less important to go over all the virtues, and more about just jumping right into the exploration of the verbage. We are currently in the midst of our first intensive, here on the thread, and a few of us have chosen to focus on the virtue of Respect, for a couple weeks, and the _underlying_ Virtues involved in Respect, like Cooperation, Patience, Tolerance, and Understanding.

What that means is that we are working the verbage, using and defining the words, repeating them often, acknowledging them when we see them being used, and asking our dc's about what virtues they might need in certain scenarios, or ways we can use some of these tools in our tool-kit. This way, we're incorporating more examination of more Virtues, within the context of that one 'Virtue of the Week.'

With older kids, there are tools that can be used to really develope their understanding of the concepts defined by the Virtues. What is Respect? What does it look like? How does it feel? Why do we want it? How do we get it? How do we give it, and why do we give it? Some families have a Virtues Tree, and they hand the Virtues Cards up on the tree, and reflect as a family on a few a week, or a few a day, like over breakfast, and then follow up at dinner with a conversation about how each family member used those virtues today.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls* 
My report.

Well we went to Mother Goose. Virtues helped a lot because the little one was horrid. But her sister was awesome. When my almost three year old started screaming on the way in that she wanted to go home I knew we were in for it. I said to my 5 year old "I really think we are going to have to use our virtues with M. today" and she said "we are going to need a lot of patience" and I said "and I'm going to need cooperation" and all the while little one is screaming "don't talk, stop talking, I want to go home"

So we get to Mother goose and it goes very well. Little one calms down and participates. Then it's time to leave. She won't leave, she's on the floor in a bundle, "I don't want to go home"







and "I don't want those shoes" and so on. So we finally get her cooperating which means I carry her and big sis carries my stuff and then we get in the car and she screams all the way home "I want Mother Goose, don't want to go home"

So I held it together and 5 year old held it together







We were very "virtuous"









Once we got home little one was fine, ate a HUGE lunch which is probably what the problem was, hunger although she ate a substantial breakfast before we left. But she is having a hunge growth spurt lately, gained 4lbs over the summer and still growing.

Today I have the little one home, all the others are at school so we are talking a lot today about virtues. She's in a great mood so far today, we did groceries and she was very patient and cooperative and respectful. She's not even three so she's still very little to be able to control her emotions yet.

I think it's going well overall!

*allgirls*, you're posts are awesome! I'm so grateful to be able to glean bits of wisdom from the experience of peers, here! Did you dialogue about how the day went with the girls?

A few things your post made me think about:

Spiritual Companioning is a big aspect of the Virtues Project. This entails active inquiry, reflective listening, and consultation. Acknowledgement is something we have discussed in terms of seeing Virtues applied, but after testing times, we can acknowledge the way we all handled ourselves, looking at what worked, and what didn't, for all concerned. Example: with your 5yo, especially, you might acknowledge her, again, for all the support she gave her little sister; let her know you'd like to ask her opinion on how things went at Mother Goose, and share with her that you respect her point of view, and want to look at how things went and what she thinks you all could have done differently, what Virtues _she_ saw, and what else could be used, etc.
With your younger dd, you might acknowledge the "turn-arounds" she had both at the place, as well as at home, and thank her for trying to be flexible, even when it was hard.
A pearl of wisdom I heard somewhere along the way... "Repsect comes with understanding; half of understanding, is _being_ understanding."

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pumpkinseed* 
So glad that it went well at Mother Goose time!

I have been having great days but today has been downright horrible







I don't even know where to begin. I had to bodily carry my almost 4 yr old out of playgroup today. I have had to do that only one other time in her life and then it was to remove her from a situation that I was tired of-not her fault. Today-it was due to not listening-in hindsight it is so silly. We were only staying for an hour-she ate a Nutrigrain bar and then came back and asked for another one as she already had it in her hand and was trying to open it.

I said no thank you-you have already had one (there weren't enough there for everyone to have 2-just one)

and then she said no i want it and continued trying to open it.

I said I see that you are hungry-we are leaving in a few minutes anyway-if you are hungry we will have lunch as soon as we get home (we live not even 5 min away)

she replied with "no-i want it"

I said again "no thank you, please hand me the bar back"

no (w. an attitude)

At which point I tell her I am going to take the bar if she doesn't hand it to me-she again refuses with an attitude and I pry it out of her little hands.

She then throws herself bodily on the ground and cries and screams and continues to have a tantrum. I tell her that we are leaving and to please go up the stairs-she refuses-I then pick her up, carry her up the stairs and put her in the car. I realize this is not the thing I should have been doing-it was one of those days. It started out bad-she was fine at breakfast and then I had to make a phone call and of course, all heck broke loose while on the phone which is what she typically does. I was tired of it and told her that she was not using her respect and patience and that she needed to be respectful if we were going to be around other people at playgroup. I told her we would be leaving if she was not respectful. When she started in with the attitude we left. I admit that I am sick and tired of her attitude. It has gotten a lot better, but today has been horrible. We then reconnected over lunch and had popcorn as a treat afterwards. However, she then started in with the attitude and not listening again -not washing her hands after going to the bathroom and walking away from me as I am asking her to go wash her hands-not going to budge on hygiene. Sorry this is so long. I am just so tired today. Thanks for listening. The virtues have been working great-just not today and I admit I think I have been too tired today to appropriately try to use them. She did say as we were pulling into our driveway after playgroup "I do not want to have a conversation when we go inside"-knowing I would talk to her about her behaviour at playgroup. Ugh. Why is 3 so difficult???

Hi *pumpkinseed*! Sounds like a testing day. Someone told me that when we are apporaching understanding of a new skill-set, or enlightenment, or points of evolution, we are most likely to be tested. And that's a way for us to guage where we're at and what we will try to incorporate in order to continue to progress.

At 3, they're so right on the threshold of independance... able to do so much now, but still in need of so much help and assistance.

You are (were) feeling frustrated with her attitude, lately. I read. Boy, me too! Dd tests me BIG time. I use a lot of "I respect you and love you too much to fight with you. I'm done talking about this." In response to what your dd said, I might have said something like: I thank you for saying that to me calmly and with respect. If you don't want to talk now, I understand. I respect that you don't want to talk right now. Please let me know when you're ready, as I do expect we'll need to reflect on what happened today; I'm interested in your point of view...."

*The TURN-AROUND*

This is a moment I have noticed lately with dd, (I believe as a result of treating her fairly, with respect and understadning, and dialoguing about it). SHe will be having a rough patch, I will remind her that I am using my respect for her to help me treat her kindly and listen to her words, etc. She will stomp away or something and shortly return with a helpful hand, or big smile and aplogy, etc... I acknowledge these moments by saying "Dd, that was a nice turn-around! Thank you for your understanding/patience/flexability," Or, "That's called a turn-around, and I noticed how you had a moment to get calm and use your thoughtfulness to reflect... Thank you!"

When our dc's disposition turns icky, look for the turn-around. It'll happen eventually and the more we acknowledge it, the more it happens.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PrennaMama* 

*The TURN-AROUND*

This is a moment I have noticed lately with dd, (I believe as a result of treating her fairly, with respect and understadning, and dialoguing about it). SHe will be having a rough patch, I will remind her that I am using my respect for her to help me treat her kindly and listen to her words, etc. She will stomp away or something and shortly return with a helpful hand, or big smile and aplogy, etc... I acknowledge these moments by saying "Dd, that was a nice turn-around! Thank you for your understanding/patience/flexability," Or, "That's called a turn-around, and I noticed how you had a moment to get calm and use your thoughtfulness to reflect... Thank you!"

When our dc's disposition turns icky, look for the turn-around. It'll happen eventually and the more we acknowledge it, the more it happens.

I LOVE this! It goes right along with a Mulligan..lol but instead of me giving them the chance to do it over they do it over independantly and I pay attention to it.







I will be doing this. I see a lot of this with my youngest.

Three year olds are soooooooo challenging. I think it's the most challenging age. My little one is three in October and she goes between "I'm the baby" to "I'm a big girl" to screaming if I say she's the baby when she's in a "big girl" moment...*sigh*

Where do manner fit? My 5 year old asked me for something and expressed gratitude so sincerely today when I gave it to her I was beaming with pride. It wasn't an automatic..it was genuine and heartfelt "thank you mommy" and I just kissed her in acknowledgement..then after I was like..could have identified it as a virtue. So that would be gratitude?


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## Unity9 (Sep 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PrennaMama* 

*The TURN-AROUND*

This is a moment I have noticed lately with dd, (I believe as a result of treating her fairly, with respect and understadning, and dialoguing about it). SHe will be having a rough patch, I will remind her that I am using my respect for her to help me treat her kindly and listen to her words, etc. She will stomp away or something and shortly return with a helpful hand, or big smile and aplogy, etc... I acknowledge these moments by saying "Dd, that was a nice turn-around! Thank you for your understanding/patience/flexability," Or, "That's called a turn-around, and I noticed how you had a moment to get calm and use your thoughtfulness to reflect... Thank you!"

When our dc's disposition turns icky, look for the turn-around. It'll happen eventually and the more we acknowledge it, the more it happens.

Wow, this is what exactly I experienced today. My DS was disrespectful about asking me for his juice today. He said: MOMMY, give me my JUICE!!(command voice)
I told him: Would you please come back to me when you are respectful?
He turned away with pout. A few minutes later, he came back to the kitchen. He said: "Mommy, would you please give me my juice?" ( he was sorry for his action) I was sooooooo happy!!







: I said now that was respect. Thank you!!!

Other day, I was trying to clean up the house. I told DS: would you please help me to pick up the toys? He ignored me! I asked second time! I thought to myself what I am thinking!! Why am I not using a virtue? I said to DS: I need cooperation please. So, he gets up and picks up some toy not all but that did it for me. Yayyyyyyyyyyyyy!

We still have to work on gentleness with his baby sister







. It's a constant reminder.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PrennaMama* 
Did you dialogue about how the day went with the girls?


Oh yes.

Another example. Today she was getting water from the fridge, we have a dispenser in the door and it dripped down and made a mess. I asked her to go get something to clean up the mess. She screamed. For a moment I was about to lecture her about cleaning up after herself then I thought about it for a moment and decided to change my tactics.

So I said "I was really hoping you would find some helpfulness in you to clean up that mess" and she calmed down(screams are usually the beginning of a meltdown) and said "I have a lot of helpfulness" and ran to the bathroom and got a cleaning rag under the sink, cleaned up the water and then put the rag back and now is eating lunch with her sister happily.

Little sister also found some helpfulness inside her and put the forks on the table for lunch for both of them.

So that's my little story of the day. I'm going to go talk to them a bit now.

So that was a turnaround right?


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## g&a (Dec 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls* 
...

So we get to Mother goose and it goes very well. Little one calms down and participates. Then it's time to leave. She won't leave, she's on the floor in a bundle, "I don't want to go home"







and "I don't want those shoes" and so on. So we finally get her cooperating which means I carry her and big sis carries my stuff and then we get in the car and she screams all the way home "I want Mother Goose, don't want to go home"

So I held it together and 5 year old held it together







We were very "virtuous"









Once we got home little one was fine, ate a HUGE lunch which is probably what the problem was, hunger although she ate a substantial breakfast before we left. But she is having a hunge growth spurt lately, gained 4lbs over the summer and still growing.


I would probably have said "You sound frusterated..." . Sometimes that's all it takes to open up the conversation about what's going on for them. But, ya, when people are hungry, sometimes reasoning with them doesn't work so well, you have to get some food into them first.

I have to say, I love the turn-around idea. will have to remember to use that.

Lately we've been working on the idea of our family as a team. DD helps out because "we're a team" and teams work together. It's worked really well.

Another thing I was thinking about with the virtues is that I have started being careful about how often I acknowledge them. I know this sounds odd, but I think if you praise kids for every little thing they do then they only do it so that they can get praise from you. I think moderation is key here. You want to cultivate self-understanding and pride in themselves, not feed their need for attention from you.

The thing I love about the virtues is that you are acknowledging actions, not the person. You are not saying "Jonny is a patient person", but rather "Jonny was really practicing patience when...". To me this is a HUGE difference. I can change my behavior, but it's a little harder to change WHO I am.

Anyway, those are some random thoughts. I've been working with the virtues for many years now, since I was a camp counsellor in the early 90's. It's a bit of a challenge to translate that now that I am a parent... I find I slip into the way my parents parented so so often.

g.


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## daniellebluetoo (Jul 11, 2008)

This sounds great, but did I miss it, did some one post books for this?

blessings


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *daniellebluetoo* 
This sounds great, but did I miss it, did some one post books for this?

blessings

That's a great question. Are there any books Prennamama?

If you read the first few posts of this thread it gives a good idea of what this is all about Daniellebluetoo.

Welcome!!!

G&A~We do the "team" thing too. We do a lot of talking about how our family works and that we all have to do our share to make our family successful etc. It's really helpful and the kids take ownership of that pretty quickly and do their part.


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls* 
<snip>
Where do manner fit? My 5 year old asked me for something and expressed gratitude so sincerely today when I gave it to her I was beaming with pride. It wasn't an automatic..it was genuine and heartfelt "thank you mommy" and I just kissed her in acknowledgement..then after I was like..could have identified it as a virtue. So that would be gratitude?

Yes, gratitude, to be sure, which is part of respect, too; also kindness, thoughtfulness, courtesy, and others. It blows my mind when dd shows these pearls so brilliantly, like the "Thank you for the healthy dinner, Mama," story I posted some time back. I try to just be real, and not hold back... I let her know how good it feels to hear that kind of thing, I openly show my pleasure at hearing such kindness, and tell her warmly "You're welcome my love! It was my pleasure! Thank _you_ for showing gratitude! That sure feels good!"

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Unity9* 
<snip>
I said to DS: I need cooperation please. So, he gets up and picks up some toy not all but that did it for me. Yayyyyyyyyyyyyy!










: It's so rewarding and encouraging to see the nearly-instant progress they make when given such sublime tools as those that already live inside them...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls* 
<snip>
So I said "I was really hoping you would find some helpfulness in you to clean up that mess" and she calmed down(screams are usually the beginning of a meltdown) and said "I have a lot of helpfulness" and ran to the bathroom and got a cleaning rag under the sink, cleaned up the water and then put the rag back and now is eating lunch with her sister happily.

Little sister also found some helpfulness inside her and put the forks on the table for lunch for both of them.

So that's my little story of the day. I'm going to go talk to them a bit now.

So that was a turnaround right?

Indeed! I love how you were honest about what you were feeling, and in a respectful way that allowed your dd to find it in herself to be helpful! I'm _totally_ going to ask dd to "find the virtues in her."

That made me think of a game I never got a chance to play at camp. I have played it with children I nannied, years ago, before I knew about the VP, and just working with lo's on manners...

I would say "How much ________ (fill in the virtue/manner) do you need at/in/to ________ (fill in place/activity/function)?" And then I would have them pour colored water into containers, to show how much they needed. The colored water was their manners (or for our purposes, virtues, and since they never run out, when the children's pitcher started to look empty, I'd just add some more...). Sometimes it was a 'trick question' like "How much thankfulness do you need when you sleep?" And they would laugh and we'd talk about when we _do_ need thankfulness.

I wonder if it might be fun to try with dd... "How _much_ helpfulness is inside you?....... How much do you use at school/home/with friends/ etc...?" Cool... I'm trying it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *g&a* 
<snip>
Lately we've been working on the idea of our family as a team. DD helps out because "we're a team" and teams work together. It's worked really well.

Another thing I was thinking about with the virtues is that I have started being careful about how often I acknowledge them. I know this sounds odd, but I think if you praise kids for every little thing they do then they only do it so that they can get praise from you. I think moderation is key here. You want to cultivate self-understanding and pride in themselves, not feed their need for attention from you.









There is definitely a line between acknowledging and praising that can be difficult to distinguish. Thank you for the reminder. It is important to be genuine with acknowledgement, just as one would be with a peer. "Hey, I see you got your hair cut!" says I noticed, but doesn't evaluate. "Hey, I noticed how patient you were." also isn't an evaluation, but rather testimony.

I like the team bit, too!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *g&a* 
<snip>
I've been working with the virtues for many years now, since I was a camp counsellor in the early 90's. It's a bit of a challenge to translate that now that I am a parent... I find I slip into the way my parents parented so so often.
g.

Virtues Camp??









Quote:


Originally Posted by *daniellebluetoo* 
This sounds great, but did I miss it, did some one post books for this?

blessings

There are links on the first page to the Virtues Project website, as well as to their 'store' and many titles can be purchased through Amazon, I believe. PM me if you're having trouble finding the links.









So, speaking of moderation and game-playing.......

Who feels ready to throw another virtue into Intensive-land here on the thread? I was wondering if anyone might consider working Moderation with me?

We did it at camp, and the above game I mentioned would play nicely into Moderation exploration.

Dd and I got into a little foulness tonight, and it got me thinking about moderation....

We were getting a card for dh (anniversary tomorrow) at the craft store and she was doing the "I want..." bit with everything she saw. She even started whining that she wanted candy (which I am not so down with, but dh will share sometimes) and they don't even _carry_ candy at the craft store. Then she chimes in with the "I _never_ get..." insert candy, toys, what-have-you. So we get into the car and she is all in a huff, and I ask her "What's the problem, honey, why are you frustrated?" She proceeds to file out a litany of "I need more stuff, like K (her best guy friend, 5, very mainstream family, lotsa plastic toys and brightly colored foods...







) and I _never_ get _anything_!" I calmy replied that it seems to me that she has a _lot_ of wonderful things and even has some pretty brightly colored food-stuffs sometimes (we are by no means perfect in our aim at organic crunchiness, and our house has seen much Gatorade, Root Beer, gummies, etc...). I asked her why she felt like she needs more. She said "_Everybody_ has more neat stuff than me... _EVERYBODY!!_" I was really taken aback by this. I nearly came unhinged.... I started to say something about, "well, maybe if you had less stuff, you'd be grateful for what you _do_ have" which is something my mother would have said right before giving me a smack for being so cheeky!... THAT wasn't going to work!







So I asked if she remembered how during the holiday season she chooses some toys to give to the kids whose folks can't get them toys. She sulked. I asked if she remembered Virtues Camp, when we had moderation tickets for lunch: "Take what you need, no more, no less..." And I asked if she remembered what moderation is. She didn't. I said "I am sorry you feel underprivaledged. You are blessed to have what you have, my love... and I'm blessed to have you!" I got in, privately seething (curse the lineage of abusive parenting going back 4 generations... but I'm a far-cry from where great-grannie was!) and we didn't speak for 15 minutes til we got to the restaurant to meet with my mom. I said "Are you still mad?" She nodded. "Ok, I see that. I'm not, (I had cooled off) and we can wait til you're ready to go in..." A few minutes later she said "I'm done being mad, now, Mama. But I still wish I had more stuff...."

I am beside myself with the commercialism and consumerism that sneaks by me, amping dd up about getting "more, more, more." This kid has SO much stuff... we're bursting at the seams! I'm about to purge, but don't want her to feel like it's a punishment, or like she's being compelled or coerced into "going without" kwim? I'm ready to work intensively on moderation with her... and for myself too. I lost 40lbs in 12 months, and recently gained about 15 of it back through no exercise and lots of indulging...

Who's in?


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PrennaMama* 
So, speaking of moderation and game-playing.......
I'm ready to work intensively on moderation with her... and for myself too. I lost 40lbs in 12 months, and recently gained about 15 of it back through no exercise and lots of indulging...

Who's in?

Definitely. And timely. We have birthdays and Christmas coming up...perfect!


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## Unity9 (Sep 2, 2008)

That is a great idea. Moderation is one of my favorite virtues. Also, could we fit in "*self-control*"? I know it is a hard one for young children, but it is better they learn it now than when they are older.
I hardly buy any toys for DS when we go out shopping together. For instant, when we go to ToysRUS, he just looks at the toys and play with the displayed ones, then we leave the store. He knows this rule! Sometimes, I get him educational toys without his presence at the store.









The other day, I took him to the non toy store; at the end, he grabbed a ghost key chain (Halloween stuff). He kept saying "Mommy, I want this...I want this..." with a very respectful voice!!! I said "would you please put that down?" He kept insisting! I said "I don't think you need this key chair, you just WANT it. Is that right? He said "yap! but I like it!"
I told him "we don't buy the stuff that we don't need" and "can we practice our self-control? The cashier asked for the key chain, so he handed it to her. That was it! we had no conversation about that thing again.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

We haven't done much with moderation other than talk about it but today we had a playgroup followed by a bbq and I was a bit worried it could get to be too much but my youngest was awesome! It was just the two of us.We talked before about sharing. Then after we got to the bbq I noticed only 2 swings.

There were a lot of kids the same age and limited number of swings and I said remember how we have kindness and sharing down inside us and today is a good day to use them because we have a lot of friends and only 2 swings so can you use your kindness and sharing to take turns and try to share a lot.

She was amazing. She offered other kids turns and was just so grown up and mature. I was so proud. Then I acknowledged that I'd noticed and told her she should be very proud of herself.

She was. And I was very proud of her as well.

At one point one of the other mothers remarked at how "good" she was and they were totally amazed when she got off the swing and gave another kid a turn without being prompted. Honestly, I was amazed too!

There were some babies there too and she was very good about giving them space and not over-hugging them and just played peek a boo. She loves babies









She was noticeably respectful, gentle and sweet, above and beyond what I've ever noticed before.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

We have mother goose again today...wish me luck!


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls* 
We have mother goose again today...wish me luck!

Best Wishes!


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Well we didn't end up going to MG because one of my best friends came by with her grandaughter...it was wonderful...She's close in age to my little one and I had a little talk to her about sharing and taking turns and how we are with our guests..and all the good things inside us we should use when we have friends over like our manners etc. and she was so attentive and then they played with very few incidents. They LOVED each other and it was great. My older daughter enjoyed it too..she was fantastic too..helping the little ones negotiate with toys. I cannot believe that a child who is not yet three could be so interested and actually try to carry out the virtues..it's amazing









We haven't done anything with moderation and I missed an opportunity tonight because the kids were eating icecream and cookies(a BIG treat) and wanted more. I said no and they were fine but I could have taught moderation.









I'm sure I'll get other chances.

Are there story books for kids about the virtues?


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

I'm so excited. I just found out that a counselling group in the city I used to live in regularly offers the virtues workshops..the introduction and facilitator training. I may do this if it works out!

They are offering the introductory one next week..and the facilitator one in November too soon for me but I'm emailing them to see if another is coming up in the new year...

I would love to be more involved so I'm definitely looking into this







:


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## kayleesmom (Dec 16, 2004)

great info taking notes thanks so much


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## Unity9 (Sep 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls* 

Are there story books for kids about the virtues?

Dear allgirls,
Yes, there is a list at this following link. It is a great idea to read stories related to each virtue.

http://www.virtueoftheweek.org/acces...ID=13_BookList

Hope that helps!!!


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Unity9* 
Dear allgirls,
Yes, there is a list at this following link. It is a great idea to read stories related to each virtue.

http://www.virtueoftheweek.org/acces...ID=13_BookList

Hope that helps!!!









link didn't work









I'll try later..maybe it's just down


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## Janelovesmax (Feb 17, 2006)

Can you tell me if this is a good book to start?

http://www.amazon.com/BOOK-VIRTUES-W...3055605&sr=8-1


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## Unity9 (Sep 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls* 
link didn't work









I'll try later..maybe it's just down

Sorry about that! I think you need to subscribe to the following website.

http://www.virtueoftheweek.org/

Actually, I could email you the PDF file if you don't mind!


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Thank you so much for this!!

I came to the GD forum because things have just not been good in my home. It is no longer a home of peace. We all always seem to be yelling at each other and frustrated.

We try and have a family night a week where we do a lesson (called Family Home Evening) and DH and I really want to spend the next year working on the Virtues.
Again, thank you! I will post our progress.









I just purchased The Family Virtues Guide from abebooks.com for $1 + shipping and handling. If anyone else is looking for an inexpensive place to buy books go with abebooks.com.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Hi, Maggie! I remember you from that other thread -- it's good to see you over here, too!


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
Hi, Maggie! I remember you from that other thread -- it's good to see you over here, too!

Which other thread? I am getting close to 8,000 posts so it all has begun to run together.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *magstphil* 
Which other thread? I am getting close to 8,000 posts so it all has begun to run together.
















The liberal Christian thread!


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Oh yes! Looooooove that thread!









I have a scenario for y'all- my oldest DD called 911 this morning while I was sleeping. She says she thought it was her Grammy's number even though she told me that 911 is just for emergencies. How would you handle this with the virtues?


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Hi everyone! Sorry I have been off the map for a bit! Have I already shared my weekly schedule??







(Full-time student, part-time home-blesser/house-cleaner, meditation guide/facillitator, Baha'i School teaching assistant, volunteer for American Cancer Society and Prenna's school... Whoo!) SO in between all of those things I have been lurking and just trying to find time to post. (I am supposed to be studying for a Statisitics exam...)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Janelovesmax* 
Can you tell me if this is a good book to start?

http://www.amazon.com/BOOK-VIRTUES-W...3055605&sr=8-1

I looked it over, and it looks GOOD! I might have to buy that one myself!

There is no hard and fast 'best' place to start... I feel strongly that any source of guidence in living and parenting with Virtues at the heart of one's efforts is a good source to look into.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *magstphil* 
<snip> my oldest DD called 911 this morning while I was sleeping. She says she thought it was her Grammy's number even though she told me that 911 is just for emergencies. How would you handle this with the virtues?

What did she say about that, about knowing that the number is for emergencies?, and calling it for "Grammy's" How old is she? Could she have been experimenting? What were the consequences... meaning, did the police come, etc?

One Virtue that I like and encourage/advise parents of older (than mine) children to explore is Consultation. When one is unsure of something, one uses the Virtue of Consultation to process the choices and make an "informed decision." Perhaps, in the future, when she's wanting to dial Grammy, she might Consult with you "to ensure she is dialing the correct number, because we wouldn't want to have the police or an ambulence show up... they're very busy, and if they're at our house, they may be missing out on helping someone in real danger... That's thinking ahead."

Also, *allgirls*, there is a children's book of Virtues by the same author of the above book... Check it out: Children's Treasury of Virtues...


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Some more books for children...

A Treasury of Virtues

The Goops Books are hilarious and old-school... very tongue in cheek:

Quote:

The Goops they lick their fingers,
and the Goops they lick their knives;
They spill their broth on the tablecloth,
Oh, they lead disgusting lives!
Goops and How to be Them: A Manual of Manners for Polite Infants Inculcating Many Juvenile Virtues Both by Precept and Example, With 90 Drawings

A Child's First Steps to Virtues

Puppy Makes Friends <- There're a few in this series.

And my fave is Hang on Hester By Wende and Harry Devlin.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PrennaMama* 
What did she say about that, about knowing that the number is for emergencies?, and calling it for "Grammy's" How old is she? Could she have been experimenting? What were the consequences... meaning, did the police come, etc?

She is 5 next Friday and when I asked her if she called she said no because we only call when their is an emergency and then she gave the example of how I called 911 when Mable was choking on a pretzel.

So that is where I am torn- she knew better but did it anyway? And then she lied to me about not calling.

What I did do was reinforce that we only call 911 in case of emergencies. I also thanked her for coming to me and telling the truth and said that we should always tell the truth in the first place. Obviously truthfulness could be used here but with what language, if I am making sense...

Thanks!


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## daniellebluetoo (Jul 11, 2008)

Has a series of childrens books, for I'd say age 6 and under, stuff like, lets be honest, lets be thankful.....I have a bunch, they are board books, so good for littles too! We just LOVE them!


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

So, moderation went so-so for us. I'm thinking we'll just keep at it with that one in our house.









How are you all doing these days?

I was wondering if anyone would consider doing a Virtue of the Week here, and following along with the website?

We are still trucking along with Virtues around here, and boy have we been tested lately.

Has anyone ever noticed this phenomenon... Whenever I feel that I am making a leap in understanding and enlightenment, or feeling like things have stabalized, hit equilibrium, etc, the Divine Universe likes to give me a pop-quiz... a little test (or a big one) to see if my new-found skill-set will hold up under pressure. In the past week I have had 3 exams, (real ones), I have 3 papers due (and here I am with you instead of doing them!), I crashed our car (not too bad and no one was hurt), killed the battery in the OTHER car, have had friends from Hawaii visiting, made a trip to the coast for the day with them, am planning dd's bday, and an array of other details that are on a spectrum from cruddy to totally crappy, all with dd right under my nose and not further than a foot or so away at all times... ad nauseum. I have broken down crying in class (the only place away from dd), gotten a little punchy with food servers and the gas-station attendant, as well as dh, and occassionally dd. Not actually punching in my punchiness, yet... But whew. My _own_ Virtues have been tested. Big time.

Dd has been such an inspiration to me these past few days. Reminding me (when I crashed) to use carefulness and caution. Admonishing me gently to be gentle and patient with others, even saying when I'm barking and griping aloud to folks who can't hear me "Mama, maybe if you are kinder and more patient, they will have a better day and move faster, or be more helpful..."

There is a cd she got a littlemore than a year ago and would not listen to it to save her life! I _loved_ it. *Red Grammer*'s *BeBop Your Best*. This one was Grammy nominated... he is just so great. His music centers on oneness, unity, character, conflict resolution. I can't believe I forgot to recommend him to you! (Of course I didn't think of it; dd never liked to listen to it so it was shelved and forgotten for about a year).......

Until, this morning, when out of nowhere, dd asks "Don't I have a cd about respect and trusting, mama?" I said, "Actually, yes, you do... BeBop Your Best..." "OH! OH! Can we listen to it now?" She asks excitedly. I put it on and she got her groove on and sang to all the songs... it was awesome. Then she says, "Thanks mama, I needed some Virtues dancing. Now I can think about the music today and use my Virtues, all day!" (Is this _my_ child??)

So once again Reg Grammer, and his cd BeBop Your Best. Check 'em out in these embedded links.


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

Hi everyone,
Prennamama, i want to thank you for introducing me to 'vritues parenting'. I read the book (most of it) and like alot of whats in it,...

...except for a few things....

First of all, im with Pam Leo and Alfie Kohn when it comes to timeouts. I dont feel cmfortable using them *at all* for 'teaching' purposes.
2ndly, some fo the virtues listed in the book , i dont think are virtues.

I dont think that obedience is a virtue. I think that co -operation and respect can quite easily function in the place of obedience.
I dont think orderliness is a virtue, but a strategy to achieve other virtues (such as gratitude or respect)

Also, i agree that parents need to act as leaders, but not as the police force. (ie punishment is not necessary in the teaching of virtues)

So im going to keep referring to my virtues manual, which contains many gems of advice and clear thinking.

But i'll leave the rest.

I bring this up, because you mentioned you wanted to live consensually. That is my aim in my parenting. I dont think that is possible with the role of parents as punishers.

Interested in what others think, and i hope to participate more in the ongoing disucssion....
Maya


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

anyone??


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *contactmaya* 
anyone??

If you read through this thread at the beginning you will see how Prennamama defines obedience differently then the usual common definition..wish I had more time.

I also agree that some are not really technically virtues..according to the TAO there are 4 virtues only...and all of the virtues listed could be categorized under the 4 in the TAO in someway..I think they are broken down, way way down for some purpose..maybe to define subtle differences or something









sorry..


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## loveandmore (Oct 24, 2008)

wow!!







This sounds like it is right up my alley!


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

This thread cannot be lost!!

We just started with the values this past week with "peacefulness" and we are loving it! I am so shocked at how the kids really absorb it and use it. I posted about it here.

I am so thankful I found this thread!


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *contactmaya* 
Hi everyone,
Prennamama, i want to thank you for introducing me to 'vritues parenting'. I read the book (most of it) and like alot of whats in it,...

You're welcome!

Quote:

<snip>...when it comes to timeouts. I dont feel cmfortable using them *at all* for 'teaching' purposes.
2ndly, some fo the virtues listed in the book , i dont think are virtues.
You know, I really understand on the time out piece. But I also feel it's important for humans to be taught about finding peacefulness during conflict, and a break from the action to reflect and discuss can help access that peacefulness and provide insight for all parties involved. For punishment? No. ITA. But for reflection and discussion... yes. For me, for dd, for any _person_ regardless of age. But I teach meditation, and come at from that POV, not from one of punative action.









Quote:

<snip>I dont think orderliness is a virtue, but a strategy to achieve other virtues (such as gratitude or respect)

<snip>I bring this up, because you mentioned you wanted to live consensually. That is my aim in my parenting. I dont think that is possible with the role of parents as punishers.

Interested in what others think, and i hope to participate more in the ongoing disucssion....
Maya
On orderliness... FWIW, orderliness is something I envy in others!







It requires a skill-set (that I lack, mostly) to keep things tidy and organized, and it's something I aspire to, whether or not it is a technically defined Virtue.









As for parents as punishers, and consensual living, I don't think any of the materials in the Virtues Project recommend punishment. I haven't come across that, in my studies. BUT I haven't actually read the manual cover to cover. Most of my personal knowledge-base is attained via Facillitators, other parents in the VP workshops I have attended, mentors, and other resources, etc... Was there something specific that gave you the feeling that punative action is part of the VP?

I believe that in life, there are folks that guide us through developmental leaps and assist us in learning about boundaries, virtues, healthy realtionships, etc. I feel it's my job as a parent to be that person for my child(ren) when they illustrate a need for such guidence. But it is done in a manner that honors dd's person, her humanity,her voice, her vote, and her journey. Just as I would hope _I_ would be treated by a facillitator or guide in my _own_ journey. I think if one views VP as a punative tool, it's easy to become uncomfortable with using some of the tools. But taken for what it is, a means to educate and learn about, as well as access the hidden gems within, in order to better navigate thru and function within society at large, it's a pathway to a certain level of enlightenment for parties who chose to incorporate the Virtues into their lfe, be those individuals adults or children.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls* 
If you read through this thread at the beginning you will see how Prennamama defines obedience differently then the usual common definition..wish I had more time.

I also agree that some are not really technically virtues..according to the TAO there are 4 virtues only...and all of the virtues listed could be categorized under the 4 in the TAO in someway..I think they are broken down, way way down for some purpose..maybe to define subtle differences or something









sorry..









You said it so succinctly *allgirls*!! Thank you so much!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *magstphil* 
This thread cannot be lost!!

We just started with the values this past week with "peacefulness" and we are loving it! I am so shocked at how the kids really absorb it and use it. I posted about it here.

I am so thankful I found this thread!









Thread not lost... I just have so much on my plate right now that I have to squeeze in computer time, and if I run out of time before I get my MDC on, I miss out!

SO~~~~~ I am getting certifined soon as a Facillitator, and here in Portland OR there will be an intensive workshop for parents interested in applying this method to their parenting journey. Anyone on here in the area? PM for details!

I have downloaded the VOW manual, and have some ideas for starting an online VOW workshop... who's in?

Dd is actively engaged in discussing Virtues with her buddies and dh. She got a little burned out on the verbage, so we backed off just a little. But when things get touchy, we go right back to using the verbage in a pretty dedicated fashion. She likes to share with others the words themselves, tho, and what they mean.

I have incorporated alphabet and writing work into the Virtues education we use... She is really into writing things, and I am able to tap into that to work with her on the Virtues.

Hope all is well for all of you and I look forward to hearing how things have been going for you all!

Tara


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## loveandmore (Oct 24, 2008)

So we started. This morning I said to my almost 3 and 5 year old as we were getting ready to go out to school.


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## sunnysandiegan (Mar 5, 2008)

Wow! What an awesome thread! It took me awhile, but I read through the whole thing and am very grateful to all of you.









I have all the links open in other windows and plan to look through them tomorrow or later this week.









This concept and approach really seems to resonate with me. I briefly discussed it with DH a little while ago and he seemed receptive to the idea, too. Our DD is 7 and has recently entered quite a challenging stage. I am currently working with an Ayurveda practitioner for my own health and am learning quite a bit about how food effects people differently and so on. In Ayurveda, DD would be said to have a lot of Vata (although probably worded differently than I have), so I am working with her on simple yoga poses and some breathwork for helping her 'find her calmness' (which is totally how I am going to phrase it next time!







). She is rebelling at the words we use, but is finding benefit in the positions themselves and just today _asked_ to do a particular pose. I was so surprised! Of course I encouraged it and she did calm herself. It was spotty with about an hour of off and on 'drama' and 'calmness'. I really feel she would find it easier if we gave her different words and reframed situations in the ways presented in this thread. This approach seems so empowering for the child AND the adult while retaining a gentleness I find very important (as a child of an abusive parent).

BTW, DD's school has a character education program that is volunteer run (public school) and focuses on six main virtues that they frame as character traits. I believe they are: courtesy, respect, responsibility, caring, kindness, and the last one escapes me at the moment. DD did well with these in K and 1st, but started this year (2nd) off with some negativity towards the program. We talked about it, but she was unable to articulate her feelings in a meaningful way. I do not recall the specifics in her answers, but it was a general attitude issue that I was unable to penetrate at the time. I'm hoping the VP web site and books (library) will give me some 'talking points' and 'verbiage' not only to assist DD in internally recognizing these 'traits' within her already, but also to pass along to the parents who run the program to possibly be incorporated a bit more fully.

Anyway, it is late and I hope my reply makes sense.







Thanks again for this thread!


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## Unity9 (Sep 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PrennaMama* 

I have downloaded the VOW manual, and have some ideas for starting an online VOW workshop... who's in?

Hi Tara, Good to see you are back again!









I am in!!!!







:


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Unity9* 
Hi Tara, Good to see you are back again!









I am in!!!!







:

Me too! What would the pricing be?


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PrennaMama* 

I have downloaded the VOW manual, and have some ideas for starting an online VOW workshop... who's in?

Tara

I'm very interested.


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## sunnysandiegan (Mar 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PrennaMama* 
I have downloaded the VOW manual, and have some ideas for starting an online VOW workshop... who's in?
Tara

I am interested.


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnysandiegan* 
Wow! What an awesome thread! It took me awhile, but I read through the whole thing and am very grateful to all of you.









<snip>
DD's school has a character education program that is volunteer run (public school) and focuses on six main virtues that they frame as character traits. I believe they are: courtesy, respect, responsibility, caring, kindness, and the last one escapes me at the moment. DD did well with these in K and 1st, but started this year (2nd) off with some negativity towards the program. We talked about it, but she was unable to articulate her feelings in a meaningful way. I do not recall the specifics in her answers, but it was a general attitude issue that I was unable to penetrate at the time. I'm hoping the VP web site and books (library) will give me some 'talking points' and 'verbiage' not only to assist DD in internally recognizing these 'traits' within her already, but also to pass along to the parents who run the program to possibly be incorporated a bit more fully.

Anyway, it is late and I hope my reply makes sense.







Thanks again for this thread!









Welcome to Virtues Parenting! Thanks for joining in. Something I remembered when I read the post above:

Perhaps when children lose sight of the fact that these traits are innate, they begin to feel "taught" or "instructed", and may seem to almost resent the information and the people giving it to them. In the VP, it's important to keep reaffirming that these traits are innate, already in the individual's make-up, for the most part, and just waiting to be unlocked, refined, and used naturally and with ease. Kind of like, anyone (mostly) can ride a bike, but you don't just hop on the bike and take off with perfect balance. Even tho balance is an innate part of how we hold ourselves upright, it's part of us and second nature, using it to travel on a bicycle takes an adaptation of or evolution in that innante ability.

As for the workshop, I'm working with my mentor next week to help decide how such a workshop will be best structured. My first instinct is to try to do it for free.







Possibly via a yahoo group or facebook group. What kinds of information and tools would YOU like to have available? How effective, useful is the correspondance-nature of those groups, to you? (like the CL group) Would you like posted imagery, vid clips, songs, games..........?

Let me know what you think!


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## sunnysandiegan (Mar 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PrennaMama* 
Welcome to Virtues Parenting!

*Thanks!







*

As for the workshop, I'm working with my mentor next week to help decide how such a workshop will be best structured. My first instinct is to try to do it for free.







Possibly via a yahoo group or facebook group. What kinds of information and tools would YOU like to have available? How effective, useful is the correspondance-nature of those groups, to you? (like the CL group) Would you like posted imagery, vid clips, songs, games..........?

Let me know what you think!

I am brand new to this concept, so I'm okay with any and all of it!







I am already on Yahoo, but could always get a facebook account. Personally, I'd love an intro type course, but that may be quite boring for others. I can always just ask questions for getting started.

Speaking of getting started...
I requested every book our public library has on this subject and they will be arriving at our local branch as they are available. One is ready for pick up on Monday and I will do so. I forget which one exactly, but one of the ones already mentioned in this thread.

I brought up the topic with DH and he is open to the idea of adding to our toolbox of parenting skills.

How do you recommend we start with DD? I am with her more since DH works outside the home. I can see merits to a family discussion and I can see merits in having it just come up in conversation with her and I one day.

I used the verbiage with her one day already. I forget exactly what I said, though... I should have written it down for some guidance. Her response was less than enthusiastic...


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

About the virtues being intrinsic.

With my three year old I will say something like "you have to find patience deep down inside you, it's there, can you find some?"

The other day she was very impatiently waiting her turn for something and I said something similar to the above and she was resistant at first and then suddenly she said
"I found some!"

and I said "what did you find"

"I found some patience. It was in my tummy"









kids are so funny!


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls* 
About the virtues being intrinsic.

With my three year old I will say something like "you have to find patience deep down inside you, it's there, can you find some?"

The other day she was very impatiently waiting her turn for something and I said something similar to the above and she was resistant at first and then suddenly she said
"I found some!"

and I said "what did you find"

"I found some patience. It was in my tummy"









kids are so funny!

Oh my. That is just about the sweetest thing I have heard in like, weeks.

I love *allgirls*' stories... I get so much inspiration from them.

It's difficult to remember to keep the virtues alive, to talk about it at least once a day... and to stay vigilant with our dc's in reminding them that these are parts of their character that are already there. I love the way *allgirls* references finding the appropriate/recommended/needed virtue inside. You go girl!


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## sunnysandiegan (Mar 5, 2008)

I picked up the first book to arrive from my "hold" list at our library. It is _The Book of Virtues_ edited, with commentary, by William J. Bennett. Man is this a BIG BOOK?!?!!!! LOL


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnysandiegan* 
I picked up the first book to arrive from my "hold" list at our library. It is _The Book of Virtues_ edited, with commentary, by William J. Bennett. Man is this a BIG BOOK?!?!!!! LOL

Enjoy!!


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## WhaleinGaloshes (Oct 9, 2006)

Prenna, I can't believe that the program you presented in your fist post is the same or related to Bill Bennett and his book. Say it ain't so!









I've searched the website from your first post, and it seems to be totally unrelated. I think it's just a name confusion issue.

SunnySD, maybe something to consider before you tackle the book?


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ruffian* 
Prenna, I can't believe that the program you presented in your fist post is the same or related to Bill Bennett and his book. Say it ain't so!









I've searched the website from your first post, and it seems to be totally unrelated. I think it's just a name confusion issue.

SunnySD, maybe something to consider before you tackle the book?

Yikes... *ruffian*, I am so grateful that you mentioned this. I have never actually read the WIlliam J. Bennet book. I did some research and _whoa_. It is about virtues, to be sure, but the language and approach is definitely not in the same line of thinking that the Virtues Project is all about. You're right. The two are _not_ the same. I initiated this thread as a means to bring the Virtues Project to the MDC community, since ime, it's a great philosophy to add to many of the methods and philosphies embraced here. That said, I don't know that I can endorse a book that doesn't come from that pov.

Don't get me wrong, ladies, there are a ton of great resources and materials out there that companion well with the VP, but may not actually be part of it. We find and take what we like, and leave the rest.

*sunnysandiegan*, maybe as you examine the book, keep in mind it is a source of information of the philosphy of virtue and has some gems in it... but it isn't per se, part of the VP.

If you're interested in reading material that _is_ from the VP, I highly recommend The Family Virtues Guide and you can take a look at it by clicking on theis link: The Family Virtues Guide.

Thanks again, *ruffian*!


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## WhaleinGaloshes (Oct 9, 2006)

Yeah, Bill Bennett is a radical neocon political analyst, anti-affirmative action, anti-gay rights, pro-war former drug czar. Not that there's anything wrong with that







. Here's a decent seemingly independent bio of him: http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1034.html

To be fair, I have not read his book and it entirely possible that Bill Bennett's take on virtue could be thought provoking. Or not.









But that's just one person's opinion.


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Just the brief snippets I reviewed didn't have the same tenor as the VP... I sincerely appreciate your calling my attention to that.

He mentions some things from Descartes and such, and does delve into philosophy (classical philosophy) but his writing, his language, and the overall sense I got from what I reviewed seemed really harsh.


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## sunnysandiegan (Mar 5, 2008)

Well, I am glad I mentioned it specifically!







I did get the title from somewhere around here (MDC in general, but I thought specifically in GD). In any case, I read the cover blurbs and all the "intro" type stuff. There are about a dozen virtues presented in the book from a literary perspective and I have not delved into any of those, yet. It appears that each section/virtue has a page or two from Bennett and the rest of the section is short literary works. (They work from super short and easy for the youngest children to longer and more complex for older children.) I haven't seen anything to warrant a red flag, yet, but I really haven't gotten into the meat of the book. It is not meant to be read cover to cover, so I have no plans of doing so. There is simply no way to read this entire book before it is due back at the library! LOL

This book just happens to be the first one to come into my local library branch from my queue. I figure it is another resource for learning about virtues in general. We'll see if I like the tone of the author/editor after I read a few beginning sections...


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PrennaMama* 

As for the workshop, I'm working with my mentor next week to help decide how such a workshop will be best structured. My first instinct is to try to do it for free.







Possibly via a yahoo group or facebook group. What kinds of information and tools would YOU like to have available? How effective, useful is the correspondance-nature of those groups, to you? (like the CL group) Would you like posted imagery, vid clips, songs, games..........?

Let me know what you think!


You are awesome! I"m voting for Facebook because I am on there a lot but I will be on board with whatever you decide







I like Yahoo groups too.

Another anecdote...along the same vein as my story about my 3 year old and the patience in her tummy. We went to Playgroup this morning. I had $1.50 enough to get a coffee. I rarely go to Tim Hortons but if I do it's usually to get Timbits for the kids. So I explained that I wanted to get coffee but I didn't have enough for timbits too and that I wouldn't be getting any and if they could to try to find some understanding that I really wanted a coffee

I had brought juice and snacks for the kids but my travel mug has vanished and I really would like to have a coffee. I was fully prepared to buy the timbits if my 3 year old kicked up a stink because she's little and we always get the timbits for her.

They were fine and when we left the drive thru I told them how grateful I was for their understanding and that they had been able to find some for me and how I am older and always understand that they need stuff so sometimes I have to do without but I was very happy that sometimes they could find understanding as well.

My five year old said "I keep my understanding in my brain". and I said "that's a great place to keep it" with a big smile on my face.









It's hard to remember every day and sometimes it's hard to figure out which virtue applies. I don't even remember if understanding is on the list but figured it sounded virtious.









My inlaws were visiting for two weeks so I have been off a lot. I've been reading along though.

This is a great read!


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

This just in...

Monumental leaps in development ON a little one's birthday are possible!

Prenna literally went form 3 to 4 in about a 30 second span.

She was given a very extravagant dress. My mom's nuts in the spoiling deptartment, I mean it... this thing is fancier than my wedding dress was.

After she wore it for a bit, we were about to have cake, and she said... "I think I'll take off my dress before some cake, I don't wanna get it messy."

I was so happy at her self-directed responsibility, I shouted out, "Awesome idea, good thinking! That's what _*I*_ call _responsibility_!" Without skipping a beat, she curtsied and said "_AND_ a Virtue."

The whole room applauded... we were all so blown away!


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PrennaMama* 

I was so happy at her self-directed responsibility, I shouted out, "Awesome idea, good thinking! That's what _*I*_ call _responsibility_!" Without skipping a beat, she curtsied and said "_AND_ a Virtue."

The whole room applauded... we were all so blown away!

I love this! What a great story









My 5 year old can read. I think I need some cards with the virtues on them for her to learn herself. I think she'd love that. She loves and feels so proud of herself when she masters a BIG word.

And I will be ordering some of the books for christmas.

I find three to be a challenging age..the most challenging in all of my children until the teen years.

My oldest daughter is 18 and out of the house now but my 14 year old is watching me with the little ones and has been somewhat curious. She is a good kid. I felt it would have been a bit wierd to start teaching her the virtues out of the blue one day but she's been questioning and learning and I hope at 14 some of it goes in.

So she's been hankering to get her tongue pierced. She actually had the money and went into the store to get it done on her lunch break yesterday. Then she decided to not do it.

She came home and told me that she'd sat in the chair and then figured maybe she shouldn't because I'd be mad and so she resisted. Seh told the guy she'd changed her mind and that she wanted to wait until her mom agreed. The piercing guy said "good for you".









Now I'm not against piercings but the tongue one really heebie geebies me out. She has her nose and belly button and ears done.

I think she should wait until she's sixteen and offered to take her then but waiting 2 years seems endless to a kid.


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## LauraN (May 18, 2004)

PrennaMama:

I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for this thread! I've actually only read the first few posts, but already Virtues Parenting has helped me make that elusive paradigm shift that everyone talks about in Gentle Parenting.

Mind you, I've been reading and studying Gentle Parenting for *years,* but something about my upbringing just didn't allow me to make that shift.

But reading your posts and the Virtues Project web site did it both for me and for DH.

For DH it was because he dismisses a lot of the other parenting books as psychological mumbo jumbo -- which really means that he doesn't get it. But this, since it was written from a Baha'i perspective, really resonated with him. He's Druze (a small religion in Lebanon, Syria and Israel) that has *a lot* in common with the Baha'i ideas.

For me, strong personal virtues is just an idea that resonates with me because of my upbringing.

So DH and I made up our separate lists of the most important virtues to us personally, and to the running of our household.

Then I merged them and started talking to the kids about them.

I explained that these were tools that we all have inside of ourselves but that we need to practice them so they become easier to use, much like learning to ride a bike (something they've both done recently). I asked them what happens when we fall off our bike. Does anyone yell at them, punish them or suggest there's something wrong with them? Of course not! Instead, we first find out what's wrong (is someone hurt? tired? hungry?), help with that, then get back on the bike and keep practicing!

This was as much an explanation for me and DH as for the kids. It helped me so much to think of these virtues as already existing within them and simply needing to be practiced!

Anyway, we went through our list of most urgently needed virtues and what they each mean and resolved to practice them (and as you suggest, I need to remember to talk about them every day.

Anyway, I was so inspired by this, and I just wanted to thank you!


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LauraN* 
PrennaMama:

I explained that these were tools that we all have inside of ourselves but that we need to practice them so they become easier to use, much like learning to ride a bike (something they've both done recently). I asked them what happens when we fall off our bike. Does anyone yell at them, punish them or suggest there's something wrong with them? Of course not! Instead, we first find out what's wrong (is someone hurt? tired? hungry?), help with that, then get back on the bike and keep practicing!

This was as much an explanation for me and DH as for the kids. It helped me so much to think of these virtues as already existing within them and simply needing to be practiced!

Anyway, we went through our list of most urgently needed virtues and what they each mean and resolved to practice them (and as you suggest, I need to remember to talk about them every day.

Anyway, I was so inspired by this, and I just wanted to thank you!

this is wonderful. I love the way you described it to your children!

I have to remember the practice aspect of it. I mean they aren't perfect. They have their moments but they are so fascinated by this.

I also notice they try to out virtue each other. One will say "thank you" and I'll notice that and the other will jump in with her "thank you as well"

I'm trying not to praise them so much as taking notice and being appreciate it.

What fascinates me it how fascinated they were with it right from the beginning. Simply being informed that they have the capacity for all of these good things seems to change the way they see themselves and also seems to inspire them to try to find the virtues they need.

It's also making me aware that I have to watch myself. I have habits that I'm unaware of and I am starting to notice that. They haven't started pointing them out but it's a matter of time.

I've decided I will be doing some actual workshops if they are offered in this area. I just discovered too late as the introduction and the facilitator workshops were offered this month nearby. If it comes again I'll be ready!


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## sunnysandiegan (Mar 5, 2008)

Hi again!









I received a bunch more books from my queue at the public library:

_Character Matters_ by Thomas Lickona
_A Pace of Grace_ by Linda Kavelin Popov
_Liberated Parents Liberated Children Your Guide to a Happier Family_ by Adele Faber & Elaine Mazlish (I own their _How to Talk..._ book and love it.)
_Gentle Discipline_ by Dawn Lighter, M.A.
_The Book of Virtues for Young People_ (in addition to the above-mentioned _The Book of Virtues_ I picked up last week) by William J. Bennett

While sitting in the library waiting for DH & DD to choose their books, I read each introduction. Each book is slightly different even though they are all about virtues. _A Pace of Grace_ is the most different in that it isn't about parenting per se. It is more encompassing.

William Bennett's books are much thicker than the others! His style is different in that he lets existing literary works do the teaching more than his own writing. The one niggling idea he presents that doesn't really feel right to me is he says, "You need very clear understandings of virtues if you are to get them." Hmmm... "get" them? I prefer the theory that states we already have them and we simply need to practice using them. However, perhaps I am misreading what he means and he is using "get them" in a different context. I plan to read the beginning of each chapter (1-2 pages of his thoughts on the 10-12 virtues he presents) before deciding if I will delve further into his books. If nothing else, it gives me a different perspective from which to examine my beliefs and to compare the other approaches in the other books I have right now...

So now I have to put the laptop away and get busy reading, reading, reading...LOL I've got three weeks to read six books.


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## loveandmore (Oct 24, 2008)

I am interested in starting with respect.


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## loveandmore (Oct 24, 2008)

Here's a great story from the other day you all might like.


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## LucyRev (Apr 20, 2003)

Can you renew them and have another 3 weeks? I do that all the time at our library. I need to get myself some books too.


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## sunnysandiegan (Mar 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LucyRev* 
Can you renew them and have another 3 weeks? I do that all the time at our library. I need to get myself some books too.

I can for the books not in someone else's queue. Several of these are in high demand!







I am #3, #4, and #7 for some of the books on this general topic. (I haven't received any of those yet.) Some of these I may end up purchasing for reference in our own personal "library". I prefer to read them once first, though.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Ohhhh I have been dieing to pick up _A Pace of Grace_!! Do let us know how it is!


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## loveandmore (Oct 24, 2008)

Thank you PrennaMama for your feedback.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

I am having so much success with this. Today at the grocery store my kids were the most helpful, respectful, patient and wonderful children you could have asked for.

People were commenting positively in almost every aisle.

One pushed the cart, one held the list. We counted apples, I lifted little one up to reach the high stuff. We stuck to the list. If it's not on the list we don't get it and sometimes they would ask if something(cookies for example) was on the list and I said "no" and they expressed disappointment and I said "but chocolate chips is on the list so we can make our own" and they were







:

Honestly...this is like a big gd secret.

I was so thrilled with the kids I took them for McDonald's for lunch. And know what? When you don't take your kids to McDonald's very often they really super appreciate it when you do! They think those little toy Penquins are amazing! They expressed so much gratitude for that and we haven't even talked about gratitude and thankfulness all that much. That just came out.

They still torture the dog a bit too much..we are working on that but they love him so darn much









Anyway...I felt so good as a mom getting so many positive remarks in the store...it's never happened to that degree before. I can take a bit of credit can't I?


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## Callimom (Sep 14, 2004)

subbing


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## sunnysandiegan (Mar 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *magstphil* 
Ohhhh I have been dieing to pick up _A Pace of Grace_!! Do let us know how it is!









I just thought I would update y'all that I finished reading the first chapter and have decided I am going to buy this book and take my time with it. It is set up to take a chapter/section at a time and I see the benefits of doing so. I really, really like Linda's approach...


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LauraN* 
PrennaMama:

I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for this thread! I've actually only read the first few posts, but already Virtues Parenting has helped me make that elusive paradigm shift that everyone talks about in Gentle Parenting.

Mind you, I've been reading and studying Gentle Parenting for *years,* but something about my upbringing just didn't allow me to make that shift.

But reading your posts and the Virtues Project web site did it both for me and for DH.

It was SO my pleasure to bring this thread up... I can really relate to your experience in finding what you needed to make that paradigm shift, because sincerely, the VP tied it all together for me!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LauraN* 
I explained that these were tools that we all have inside of ourselves but that we need to practice them so they become easier to use, much like learning to ride a bike (something they've both done recently). I asked them what happens when we fall off our bike. Does anyone yell at them, punish them or suggest there's something wrong with them? Of course not! Instead, we first find out what's wrong (is someone hurt? tired? hungry?), help with that, then get back on the bike and keep practicing!









Oooooh! I LOVE the way you linked the bike metaphor with the principles of gentle parenting, that it, parenting without shaming etc! I plan to use that!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loveandmore* 
Thank you PrennaMama for your feedback.

All the gratitude is making me







:... I can't believe VP hasn't been discussed more roundly, here! It's such a natural fit! Thank you ladies for reading, and giving it a shot!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls* 
<snip>

Honestly...this is like a big gd secret.

<snip>Anyway...I felt so good as a mom getting so many positive remarks in the store...it's never happened to that degree before. I can take a bit of credit can't I?









It does feel like a big secret! Get the message out, sistas! There is another approach!!







:

And *allgirls* you uva well better take some credit... it's you, after all, who is helping them to unlock their virtues!


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Sometimes I feel like I'm just winging it but hey, it works.

So yesterday my daughter was disappointed that she didn't win the colouring contest at her school but she was very excited that her friends won. I was very proud and pointed out that being "gracious" in defeat is a virtue. So we talked about that a lot and how it's important that even when we feel disappointment in ourselves we can make ourselves feel better by being happy for others and that will actually make us less disappointed and more happy than if we feel mad at them.

She's going to congratulate her friends when she goes to school on Monday she said.

She really listened and understood.


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Prenna and I have been discussing choices, and the value of thinking about the choices available before deciding one's path...

She was interviewed by a friend of ours who is taking a master's class in child psychology and wanted to talk to her about moral development.

Prenna told her that breaking the rules (in a game they were playing) is wrong because someone could get mad, it's not fair... and then she let our friend break the rules to take several turns in a row, because she "wanted her to have more fun, and losing isn't fun."

This started a conversation on fairness and sportsmanship.

We're steadying on... winging it.

When school lets out for winter break, I'm starting a Facebook group. I hope you all will join in!







:


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Thanks so much for the update! I think I'll buy it as well...


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## sunnysandiegan (Mar 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *magstphil* 
Thanks so much for the update! I think I'll buy it as well...

I just ordered my copy from amazon along with Linda's _Family Virtues Guide_ and a few other books for myself and gifts...all on free shipping, too...









I tried to buy it in person, but the bookstore where I was for a Mom's Night Out didn't carry any of the books on my list...


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## sunnysandiegan (Mar 5, 2008)

I wanted to bring this thread back up for discussion.









I have a cute story to share.







As I mentioned above, I have checked out a lot of books from the library on parenting topics. The mention in this thread is far from an exhaustive list. LOL Our DD (age 7) has paid attention and has read bits and pieces of many of the books. She reads well and comprehends well, also.







She has clear opinions on various books, also, and definitely disliked all of the William Bennett books. In her words, "he is mean". I ordered some of the books I liked from Amazon and they arrived right before Christmas. The Family Virtues Guide by Linda Kavelin Popov has been sitting on the stairs for a few days now. I had read a couple dozen pages and set it aside due to the holidays. She decided to read it yesterday. She loves it! She asked me to read it with her later in the day, so we took turns reading aloud before dinner. Then we asked Daddy to read up to the same point we got to and he did after dinner. She told us what she liked is that "it disciplines parents". LOL She also really liked the stories (examples). She was able to articulate the specific areas where she felt our family could use the work in the book. (We haven't finished reading the section before the specific virtues, but we are close.)

Meanwhile, I brought a few books to a playgroup meeting this morning at the beach and started a discussion on the virtues parenting concept (among others). Two of the three moms present are very interested in purchasing the book and discussing the topics regularly. I'm going to send an email to the whole playgroup next week to see if anyone else is interested as well.

PrennaMama, are you still interested in doing an online workshop? I'd love to participate!


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## Unity9 (Sep 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnysandiegan* 
I wanted to bring this thread back up for discussion.









I have a cute story to share.







As I mentioned above, I have checked out a lot of books from the library on parenting topics. The mention in this thread is far from an exhaustive list. LOL Our DD (age 7) has paid attention and has read bits and pieces of many of the books. She reads well and comprehends well, also.







She has clear opinions on various books, also, and definitely disliked all of the William Bennett books. In her words, "he is mean". I ordered some of the books I liked from Amazon and they arrived right before Christmas. The Family Virtues Guide by Linda Kavelin Popov has been sitting on the stairs for a few days now. I had read a couple dozen pages and set it aside due to the holidays. She decided to read it yesterday. She loves it! She asked me to read it with her later in the day, so we took turns reading aloud before dinner. Then we asked Daddy to read up to the same point we got to and he did after dinner. She told us what she liked is that "it disciplines parents". LOL She also really liked the stories (examples). She was able to articulate the specific areas where she felt our family could use the work in the book. (We haven't finished reading the section before the specific virtues, but we are close.)

Meanwhile, I brought a few books to a playgroup meeting this morning at the beach and started a discussion on the virtues parenting concept (among others). Two of the three moms present are very interested in purchasing the book and discussing the topics regularly. I'm going to send an email to the whole playgroup next week to see if anyone else is interested as well.

PrennaMama, are you still interested in doing an online workshop? I'd love to participate!










It is funny that my almost 5 year old son likes to read the same virtue book at nights before bed. He calls it the Baha'i book!!! He likes the pictures and examples!!

It is wonderful that you introduced this book to your palygroup









Good luck


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

bumpity...important thread...thought I'd bump it.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls* 
bumpity...important thread...thought I'd bump it.

Thanks! I have been wondering how everyone is doing!


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## Unity9 (Sep 2, 2008)

Me too!!!!


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

is there a book on this? I dont get much time to read on the compouter these days but I read the first page here and I am very interested in this.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

just getting through page 2 now. I ordered the family virtues book. I am thinking of getting the cards too now







this really sounds right up my alley. I will continue my way through this thread as I have time


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

I have made my way through page 3. this is very exciting to me! I'm always looking for new tools. It's amazing to hear how these things work. It's very hard to let go of "control". sometimes I feel like I create unneccessary power struggles because I feel like I need to "control" my children. What I really need, is for us to work together and be cooperative. The reality is, you can't really control another person, and I dont want my children to be the kind of people who let others control them anyway. I do want them to cooperate though and follow instructions, especially about being kind and gentle to others, and being safe, etc. Self control is the goal for my family, but its hard sometimes to get rid of these old habits.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PrennaMama* 
I use what speaks to me from each of the different teachings or styles I'm attracted to. I llike to look at each parenting philosophy and approach as a tool for my tool-kit. Where L&L fails me, I lean more heavily on CL modality. Where Faber and Mazlish leave me blank, I draw upon Playful Parenting. But underlying it all (at least, now, for _our_ family) is the Virtues Project.

This makes it sound like "Virtues" is the missing piece to our family equation. We use L&L the FM approach, and Playful Parenting. I needing something to tie it together and I'm excited to start using this approach!! Though, my kids are very little still I think its best to start early so *I* can be in the habit of "saying/doing the right things".


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

this thread holds a wealth of knowledge. thank you for posting it and thank you to everyone who has been participating in it. I love the turn around concept on page 4. I am rather addicted to reading this thread. I really don't have time hehehe but I figure making my house more virtuous will buy me more time in the long run


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls* 
About the virtues being intrinsic.

With my three year old I will say something like "you have to find patience deep down inside you, it's there, can you find some?"

The other day she was very impatiently waiting her turn for something and I said something similar to the above and she was resistant at first and then suddenly she said
"I found some!"

and I said "what did you find"

"I found some patience. It was in my tummy"









kids are so funny!

awe that made me giggle out loud. TOO STINKIN CUTE!!!


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

I'm all caught up on this thread.... that was a lot of reading!! thank you for this post, i've had some great breakthroughts recently and feel that this is a good foundation to base all my new practices on







can't wait to get my book - but I've already gotten started from what I've learned here!


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## sunnysandiegan (Mar 5, 2008)

Welcome Super Glue Mommy!









I love what you said aways up about "control" and cooperation, etc. I can totally relate!









We have the book and my DD loves this book. In her words, LOL, "It disciplines parents."







She and I took turns reading the sections before the virtues aloud and then Daddy read those sections to himself with us in the room. Then, I had the book in my lap and we had an open discussion about all of those concepts with DD (age 7) more or less guiding the discussion. WOW! That was a really good turning point for our family dynamics. DD is feeling much more heard and understood and her behavior has come a LONG way, Baby!







So has ours (DH & I), according to DD.









That was back in December or January (on her winter break from school) and we have not started with the specific virtues as the book guides one to do. However, we have kept up with the general concepts presented. I think it is time for us to get the cards and start a proactive game plan for the specific virtues now.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

thanks! we have been working on this since I started posting here. Gentleness and consideration seem to come up a lot... and sometimes helpfulness... but helpfulness is something my son has always been good about anyway. consideration is a tough one for him because he doesn't understand other people's personal space at all (ASD). DD is REALLY picking up on the gentleness. When she starts to hit I stop her and tell her to use her gentleness. she starts petting the person nicely saying "Gentle gentle gentle"

also, doing better with using time in. it's tough to impliment sometimes, but when I am able to I get way better results then with time out.

today though, my daughter was jumping on me and instead of using that as a chance to teach about consideration I said "stop jumping on me!" she went from laughing to crying and walked into the other room. I apologized for hurting her feelings. I felt terrible









we've also been using kindness.


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Hello Virtues Parents! I have been gone for a long time... I am so glad to see that folks are still here, checking out Virtues Parenting.

My own Steadfastness in Virtues Parenting was tested last winter, and I needed to take a break from my online communications.

My husband and I have divorced, and the circumstances were very unfortunate.

But through the storm of emotions, I stayed Steadfast with my gentle parenting, and worked very hard to cultivate a loving and supportive atmosphere for Prenna as we transition through these hard times.

The divorce was finalized March 23, exactly 2.5 years from our wedding date.

Some of the things that stick out as valuable and notable from this whole experience:

A child's concept of their own ability to navigate through change and trauma is very malleable, and the slightest mis-step can undermine the very core of the foundation of Virtue... I have had to strive extra carefully to maintain a level of honesty, patience, understanding, and support with her in the face of the "good-time dad", as well as remain supportive of HIS parenting, in ways that enable HIM to remember what parenting is, what it looks like, and what we have set out to provide for our child.
As she transitions into her new life, and observes other children (many of whom have older siblings and main-stream families whose lives are extremely different from hers), she "tries on" phrases and behaviors, some of which I really have had to work around. I use the most challenging moments as opportunities to accept her experimentation first, and then follow up with a process of inquiry as to what Virtues are involved, aren't involved, or ought to be involved.
When things go really south, and they do... I am firm with her about using the Virtues inside of her... I might remind her "I suspect there is a Virtue here that is not being used... Would you consider taking a minute to reflect on how you want things to go and what Virtues are involved in that?" She sometimes gets pretty frustrated, but will invariably walk away, reflect, and sometimes comes to me with a hug, an I love you, and even sometimes what Virtue she has decided to use. I usually respond that even just coming up and being loving after a conflict shows that she has HUGE Virtues, and is very grown-up, using her Virtues without being prompted.
The no-prompt acknowledgement has been epic. I find myself saying things like "I didn't know you were already using that Virtue, that Virtue is _______." And "You were really using your _______ and I didn't have to ask you or remind you. Wow, hon! That's really thinking!"
Lastly, when I am having my own hard time, being patient or kind or peaceful, etc, I OWN it. I usually let her know, "I am running out of my patience" or something, ask her to give me some space, and then take a moment to calm down. Then I speak to her about it. I TELL her outright, "Mama has had a hard time today. Thank you so much for using your understanding, and giving me some space... I love you too much to yell at you and I really don't like feeling impatient with you, so when you give me space, it gives me time to build up my patience (etc) again... I am so sorry to have hurt your feelings (if feelings were hurt by a frustrated mama) and I want to know what you think we can do to work on that?" One break thru conversation involved Prenna telling me outright that if I seemed to be losing my temper, she would hold up her hand like a stop, and say "Mama, remember we talked about being steadfast in our Virtues? Do you need a minute?" She is a genius! It has happened... it works. Giving her a voice and a say in how we handle our conflicts has really had an impact on our relationship... it's amazing.
I hope you are all well and that you continue to find inspiration in the Virtues... I look forward to more communication... and the Facebook group WILL be up and running in the next few days.

IF YOU ARE INTERESTED in joining a Facebook Virtues Parenting group, please click on the Facebook link in my signature and add me as a friend, with a note re; Mothering or Virtues.

Thank you!

See you soon!

Tara


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Tara~







I just wanted to tell you that I think you are a beautiful spirit and so much so that it even radiates over the internet









~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

I have been sick from this pregnancy and so it has been really hard to keep up with the virtues. We had wanted to do it once a week for a year but that has not happened. So we are starting again today and are just letting it be meaning learning a new virtue hopefully weekly but mainly when we can. I also bough A Pace Of Grace but have yet to read it.









Anywho I just wanted to bump this wonderful thread and also update.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Bumping!


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## LionTigerBear (Jan 13, 2006)

Just ordered the book-- also "A Pace of Grace". I started talking to my kids about virtues and so far it's been working pretty well. They are 3 and 5. Very interested to see where this might take us . . .


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## Harmony08 (Feb 4, 2009)

Hello,

I just read the whole thread. Thank you thank you thank you!

I think Prenna has one good mama


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## suzywan (Feb 5, 2004)

Subbing. This sounds awesome!


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## treehugz (Apr 15, 2008)

Subbing too... I'm just starting with the virtues. Anybody planning to do the one-a-week plan for the 52 virtues in 2010? I was thinking my dh and I could read through them together and then we could focus on that virtue with our 22 month dd during the week.


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## pumpkinseed (Aug 6, 2005)

The virtue a week sounds fantastic! I am on board. Do you have a "list" of 52 virtues? I still want to order the book but haven't yet. We kind of winged it last year and it was great-then she hit 4 and everything flew out the window







Hopefully this will get us back on track and back to practicing our favorite one "respect"


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## Tjej (Jan 22, 2009)

I have the book from Amazon in my cart just waiting for me to check out







. Maybe I will this afternoon!

Tjej


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## treehugz (Apr 15, 2008)

here's the list from the family virtues guide (fvg)... i think we'll start alphabetically, beginning with assertiveness tonight and this week... that seems like a great place for us anyway. anyone have any suggestions for ways to talk with my 22mo dd about assertiveness?? the fvg seems mostly geared toward older kids on this topic... or maybe i'm just clueless about that virtue anyway!

1 assertiveness
2 caring
3 cleanliness
4 compassion
5 confidence
6 consideration
7 courage
8 courtesy
9 creativity
10 detachment
11 determination
12 enthusiasm
13 excellence
14 faithfulness
15 flexibility
16 forgiveness
17 friendliness
18 generosity
19 gentleness
20 helpfulness
21 honesty
22 honor
23 humility
24 idealism
25 joyfulness
26 justice
27 kindness
28 love
29 loyalty
30 mercy
31 moderation
32 modesty
33 obedience
34 orderliness
35 patience
36 peacefulness
37 prayerfulness
38 purposefulness
39 reliability
40 respect
41 responsibility
42 reverence
43 self-discipline
44 service
45 steadfastness
46 tact
47 thankfulness
48 tolerance
49 trust
50 trustworthiness
51 truthfulness
52 unity


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## Tjej (Jan 22, 2009)

Well, I think the approach depends on their temperament. If the child is naturally very assertive, it could be about the definition and about being assertive in a nice way. If the child naturally hangs back and/or is a push-over, talking about what being assertive means and how it is good to say what you think. Something like"people like to hear what you think and it is important."

Tjej


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## althara (Jan 21, 2007)

This is a great thread. I'm so glad it got revived.

With my daughter turning three soon, over the last few months I have been seeing a lot of attitude and behaviors that are not the kinds of things I feel comfortable with. Namely she's been ignoring me, yelling, demanding with "i want to"s, hitting or kick, and/or generally giving harsh negative responsiveness when someone is trying to be helpful or asking her a seemingly benign question.

I need to take some time to reflect on my own behaviors and actions to see what she is mirroring from me. I know some of it is mirroring because I have a tendency of getting frustrated and not adapting my responses. And I need think about what is being mirrored from other sources, mainly the teachers and kids at daycare. Once I've done that I'm going to start discussing virtues with her starting with calmness.


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## pumpkinseed (Aug 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tjej* 
Well, I think the approach depends on their temperament. If the child is naturally very assertive, it could be about the definition and about being assertive in a nice way. If the child naturally hangs back and/or is a push-over, talking about what being assertive means and how it is good to say what you think. Something like"people like to hear what you think and it is important."

Tjej

This is great. I have a 19 month old and a 5 year old-so I will be using different approaches for the same virtue-trying to figure out how I will do this.

Althara-3 is so hard-I felt like I was a great gentle discipline parent up until 3-that is when it got really tricky-over the next 2 years I have had many "not the best mommy moments"-3 to 5 is so hard. Definitely find out what your triggers are-and work on the calmness surrounding these. I am still working at this


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## joanna0707 (Jan 2, 2009)

I've ordered The Family Virtues Guide on amazon, can't wait for it to arrive

*treehugz* my ds is about your dd's age, I think they are to small to understand what virtues are, I think at this age is more about teaching them the words, so I try to use a lot of Helpfulness, Cooperation, Respect etc.
once ds will gets closer to 3 I will try to explain what virtues are and then I can tell him how he was using them before, that they are already in him.


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## althara (Jan 21, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pumpkinseed* 
Althara-3 is so hard-I felt like I was a great gentle discipline parent up until 3-that is when it got really tricky-over the next 2 years I have had many "not the best mommy moments"-3 to 5 is so hard. Definitely find out what your triggers are-and work on the calmness surrounding these. I am still working at this









I'm definitely having a lot more "not the best mommy" moments. I think a lot of that is not using my own virtues of flexibility, helpfulness, and respect. I tend to fall into my parents' style of "because I said so" which is really never a good reason to do anything. I think that's partially a matter of their influence while we are living with them, but also partially a matter of not filling my tool-box with better tools. KWIM? So that's something for me to work on.

It's also a good reminder that no one is, or should be, perfect all the time. And boy do I need those reminders.


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## treehugz (Apr 15, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *joanna0707* 
*treehugz* my ds is about your dd's age, I think they are to small to understand what virtues are, I think at this age is more about teaching them the words, so I try to use a lot of Helpfulness, Cooperation, Respect etc.
once ds will gets closer to 3 I will try to explain what virtues are and then I can tell him how he was using them before, that they are already in him.

Yeah, I agree... we're mainly using the book just for my dh and I, and then focusing on using the words with our dd... although I'm surprised by how much she seems to understand (like explaining what a virtue is) and how quickly she's picked up using the words herself (like telling me her patience is in her toes and that it's going to help her find something else to do while she waits for mama).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tjej* 
Well, I think the approach depends on their temperament. If the child is naturally very assertive, it could be about the definition and about being assertive in a nice way. If the child naturally hangs back and/or is a push-over, talking about what being assertive means and how it is good to say what you think. Something like"people like to hear what you think and it is important."

Tjej

Well, dd goes both ways. She is very passive around people/kids she doesn't know. She's too busy observing and trying to figure the other people out, I think, to notice or care that they just took a toy out of her hand or shoved her out of the way. But around immediate family she can be a little aggressive and begins to do what she's seen other kids do... for example, after hanging out with her cousins, she started saying "that's mine" and grabbing whatever out of my or dh's hand.

We've been doing some doll role-play every day this week to work on assertiveness. One example is to feed three of her dolls. We take turns and each one gets a bite, but then I'll take one of the dolls and it will jump in front of one of the others... so then I have the other doll explain, firmly but kindly, "hey, it's my turn right now. you have to wait your turn little baby." We do something similar when the dolls play and one steals a toy. Not sure if this is a good approach or if it's working.

A couple tips I found:
for toddlers: http://www2.scholastic.com/browse/article.jsp?id=736,
for older kids/adults: http://cmhc.utexas.edu/booklets/assert/assertive.html


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## pumpkinseed (Aug 6, 2005)

How is everyone doing?

I finally got my book in today and am excited to start reading it.


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## treehugz (Apr 15, 2008)

Yay, I love new book deliveries!

This is our week on cleanliness, which seems pretty straightforward. Last week was caring, which was also an easy one for us to find examples of. One new thing I'm working on... we check out a dozen or so board/picture books every week at the library, and as I read them I'm making a list of the books and any key virtues that are addressed. I think this will be a helpful resource for me to draw from as I'm going through the weeks... and I love books (and lists, lol) so it's fun for me. Then I can just go back to the library and get those books when there's a new virtue to work on.

If anyone has suggestions of good books showing a particular virtue, I'd love to add it to my list!


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## bstandlee (May 14, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treehugz* 
Yay, I love new book deliveries!

This is our week on cleanliness, which seems pretty straightforward. Last week was caring, which was also an easy one for us to find examples of. One new thing I'm working on... we check out a dozen or so board/picture books every week at the library, and as I read them I'm making a list of the books and any key virtues that are addressed. I think this will be a helpful resource for me to draw from as I'm going through the weeks... and I love books (and lists, lol) so it's fun for me. Then I can just go back to the library and get those books when there's a new virtue to work on.

If anyone has suggestions of good books showing a particular virtue, I'd love to add it to my list!

What a great idea! I love books and lists too







I don't have any book suggestions right now but I would love to start compiling some names. I've thought of doing that with Bible stories that highlight certain virtues too (but haven't got so far as to actually start a list!)


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## BabyBearsMummy (Jan 27, 2006)

I just picked up a copy of The Family Virtues Guide. We are planning on a 52 week journey thru the book together as a family. A random number generator selected the virtue of cleanliness as our first virtue. Something we are all struggling with lately. This looks like it will be an interesting journey.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

So glad to see this has been bumped! Any of the old moms still around? How is everyone doing?

We need to start up with this again. Desperately.


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## Just1More (Jun 19, 2008)

I'm a new one to this, but I really like the idea. I really like being able to give my kids concrete things that all people should do. I really dislike the lists of dos and donts we all get caught up in, and would much rather focus on principle.

So, I don't have much free time, but I'm reading, and would love to hear other's experiences, real life suggestions, and anything else.


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## bstandlee (May 14, 2007)

We've been doing virtues with DS basically since he was a baby. He's almost 4, and it's fun to see him grasp and understand these big words we talk about with him: respect, responsibility, courtesy, consideration, etc. DH is a youth pastor and is totally on board with using the virtues in his ministry. He even brought in a certified speaker for a one day parenting conference at our church...really cool!

The thing I struggle with is I feel like sometimes I use virtues as an ultimatum: "You need to choose (respect, courtesy, etc.) or else you'll go to your room or get a toy taken away." I feel like it should be more about him understanding and choosing the virtues of his own free will...our job is just to teach him what they are and why they're good and that they're inside everybody. It's just hard to put into practice with a preschooler!


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## pumpkinseed (Aug 6, 2005)

Instead of making it an ultimatum-you could phrase it when he is acting in a way that is inappropriate as a question: which virtue do you think would be helpful now for you to use? If there is no response-I would list a few-and ask if any of those would help in that situation. That used to really help my daughter when she was that age. Now she is 6.5 and I am grasping at straws...I need to get back to using virtues in our everyday language again-


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