# baby dosent care when i discipline him



## gottothinkpositive (Apr 21, 2007)

when i discipline my 18th month old he doesn't even seem to care...he just keeps doing his thing...if i tell him no an remove him from the situation he may scream or do nothing at all.... if absolutely needed i will smack his hand and he doesn't even care...how am i to discipline my child. i dont remember my daughter being like this...when his dad tells him no sometimes he may cry but with me...i get nothing...does he not respect me? am i giving him too much credit he is just a 18 month old...i dont get it....i tried time out once and i know that isnt much but i feel like he dosent get the concept and i would have to stay there with him to keep him there for 30 sec and i really dont feel like he gets it. any suggestions please.


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## JessSC (Jan 26, 2007)

He's 18 months old... not exactly the time where kids understand obedience! Try to limit how often you need to tell him no. Remove temptations from your house so its more child-proof. Don't give him the opportunity to run away from you outside so you don't have to keep expecting him to come back when you call.

Keep repeating, keep repeating, keep repeating. Eventually repetition works. Much better than handsmacking, IMO.


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## Blu Razzberri (Sep 27, 2006)

I understand the feelings you have about the situation you're in, but there isn't really enough information for me to give you any type of constructive help.

My suggestion is that you read through the Gentle Discipline forum because I know you'll find other threads that you can relate to and they'll have great suggestions in them. I'm also still learning how to GD and I've found this helpful. Good luck in your searches!

PS: I read small parts of a book called "The No-Cry Discipline Solution" by Elizabeth Pantley and what I read made sense to me (about this type of situation). Perhaps you could see if the library has it and if it helps for you.


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## mamak05 (Mar 20, 2006)

yes - he is too young. Good advice from the previous poster. I would encourage you to try to understand what's going on from his perspective when when you are trying to "discipline" him - is he trying to figure something out, is he tired and needing your attention? How are you feeling in the moment?

I think timeout is actually something adults can take to get themselves calm enough to make a connection with their kids. The more you can connect with him the more you will find an easier flow to your day.

I like this website - you can sign up and get short inspiring parenting ideas/tips/thoughts daily.
http://www.enjoyparenting.com/get-your-daily-groove


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## LolaK (Jan 8, 2006)

Read _Gentle Discipline_ by Hilary Flower to get some better ideas of how to discipline. Smacking is never appropriate, no matter how lightly it is done. Would you like him to smack you when you do something he doesn't like? The answer is probably no so stop modeling hitting behavior for him now before he starts to copy you. Time outs are iffy IMO, but definitely not going to work with an 18 month old. I mean do you seriously expect him to sit alone where you put him and "think about what he's done?" Of course he doesn't "get it."

He is 18 months old. Babyproof your house and remove temptation. If he keeps getting into a certain thing move it so that there isn't anything to "get into." Maybe your daughter was just less of an explorer, some kids just aren't interested in certain things.

Maybe he responds to your husband out of fear? If so I would take it as a complement that he doesn't respond to you in the same way.


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## gottothinkpositive (Apr 21, 2007)

i had a feeling i would get feed back about the smacking...

my house is baby proofed quite well but its other situations like standing on top of his toy...trying to climb the chair and the screaming when he docent get his way.
i have read a lot of info on the web that states at this age they do know how to manipulate the parents...not manipulation like adults or older kids can do by any means.
My parents hit me and i would never ever dare to hit them back...i dont think thats a problem. And no i wouldn't want my child to hit me but that is where you draw the line...establish who is the parent and who is the child.

i also said that the one time i tried time out i had to sit there with him because of course i dont expect him to sit alone...also the point of time out i believe is to put the child in a non stimulating environment which a youngster dosent like very much and this is the disapline...disapline isn't supposed to be a fun thing...thats why its discipline.

Also its not like he fears my husband...i am the one that does most of the discipline because i am with him all day...

However, i will check to see if the library has the books everyone mentioned because the more info i can get the better. its tough because i have my parent telling me to do this and friends telling me to do that and i am like dang!!!!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LolaK* 
Read _Gentle Discipline_ by Hilary Flower to get some better ideas of how to discipline. Smacking is never appropriate, no matter how lightly it is done. Would you like him to smack you when you do something he doesn't like? The answer is probably no so stop modeling hitting behavior for him now before he starts to copy you. Time outs are iffy IMO, but definitely not going to work with an 18 month old. I mean do you seriously expect him to sit alone where you put him and "think about what he's done?" Of course he doesn't "get it."

He is 18 months old. Babyproof your house and remove temptation. If he keeps getting into a certain thing move it so that there isn't anything to "get into." Maybe your daughter was just less of an explorer, some kids just aren't interested in certain things.

Maybe he responds to your husband out of fear? If so I would take it as a complement that he doesn't respond to you in the same way.


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## gottothinkpositive (Apr 21, 2007)

one more thing...
i have tried this Dr sears suggestion about the screaming and they say to put your finger to your mouth and say shhhhhhh pretty basic but i have been doing it all day...and also whispering "small voices" so i will try this for awhile and see how it goes. they also recommend going to a designated spot to scream and the child can only scream at this spot so if the child screams and isn't in his "screaming spot" then remind him where it is appropriate to scream...i think that method is a bit out there...they suggested the spot to be the out in the yard on the grass....so every time i take him somewhere and there is grass he is going to feel its OK to scream like a banshee. i dont think so.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

I think you have unrealistic expectations for an 18 month old. If you are not willing to accept that you are wrong for hitting a baby and putting them in a time out, then you will likely not get much support here.


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## LolaK (Jan 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gottothinkpositive* 
And no i wouldn't want my child to hit me but that is where you draw the line...establish who is the parent and who is the child.

Not using punishment doesn't mean you don't set limits. There are plenty of ways to make sure that your kid understands limits without using punitive discipline.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gottothinkpositive* 
also the point of time out i believe is to put the child in a non stimulating environment which a youngster dosent like very much and this is the disapline...disapline isn't supposed to be a fun thing...thats why its discipline.


No, that is the point of punishment. Which is largely useless with an 18 month old, some would argue it is largely useless at any age. If you want your child to _learn_ , you need to teach not punish.

Do you agree with what your parent's or friends are telling you to do? Do you think they are right or does your gut instinct tell you they are wrong?

Hitting your child might not teach your child to hit you (a smart kid isn't going to hit the big bully, but the smaller, more vulnerable person after all) but it will teach your child to hit to solve problems.

How come your child cannot climb on a chair? Or stand on top of his toy? I don't see what the problem with those things are. Teach him the safe way to climb on and off of a chair. Are you worried he will break the toy? If _you_ care put the toy away for a while, if you don't care, let him break the toy and if _he_ cares he will learn pretty quickly not to stand on his toys.


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## gottothinkpositive (Apr 21, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 
I think you have unrealistic expectations for an 18 month old. If you are not willing to accept that you are wrong for hitting a baby and putting them in a time out, then you will likely not get much support here.

first of all i said i tried time out once...i agree at this age he doesn't get it as i said in the first post. i dont think my child is emotionally scared for life for this one 20 sec time out...second of all i dont hit my baby. i smacked his hand a few times by the advise of my mother and i dont see the point to do so since it dosent phase him and thats why i am asking about other options. i am not against it if it works for someone but its not working for me...are you children well behaved and well mannered and not screaming..if so please share your advice and you dont need to be rude when i am on here asking for help. thanks


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Smacking is hitting and it's wrong. Smacking, hitting, spanking, tapping- all the same and wrong.

Period.

I also think you have unrealistic expectations. At 18 months you simply do not expect them to "comply" or be "obedient" Sure, sometimes they will. But it's not to be expected.

I suggest you read some books on child development.

At that age you need to keep him safe and redirect and distract as needed.

-Angela


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## Jenne (May 21, 2004)

How do you feel when you want to do something and you can't? How do you feel when someone takes something away from you? You probably don't cry but I bet you feel some amount of disappointment, grief, anger, sadness...your child hasn't had as long as you have to deal with the world, his way of expressing himself is through laughter and crying essentially. You are right, you do need to discipline your child but that does not mean you can't be empathetic to him. So you take the toy out of the room, your son
cries and you rock him and tell him you know he's sad that he can't stand on the toy...

He is too little to understand what "time out" means. Redirection and soothing may work better.

Also, sons are much different than daughters. There are some great books out right now about raising sons. One I've been told is good but have not read is called, "Raising Cain."

Also, right now, your son *knows* you are the parent. There is little he can do for himself. He is dependent upon you to meet his needs. When you use violence you teach him that the person who meets his needs also hurts him. I doubt this is what you want to be teaching him. Also, if he isn't responding to it then it isn't working. At the very least you want to use methods that work...

Best of luck! One more thing...you'll catch more flies with honey







Positive reinforcement works SO SO SO well!

Jenne


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## gottothinkpositive (Apr 21, 2007)

Do you agree with what your parent's or friends are telling you to do? Do you think they are right or does your gut instinct tell you they are wrong?

With my mom i do feel like she is a bit too strict on things and i am more laxed then she is....

Hitting your child might not teach your child to hit you (a smart kid isn't going to hit the big bully, but the smaller, more vulnerable person after all) but it will teach your child to hit to solve problems.

you guys are acting like i am beating the crap out of my child...far far far from it...come on!!! OK YOU DONT BELIEVE IN smacking your child's hand...its more like a tap its not like i am ripping into my 18 month old....come on now.

How come your child cannot climb on a chair? Or stand on top of his toy? I don't see what the problem with those things are. Teach him the safe way to climb on and off of a chair. Are you worried he will break the toy? If _you_ care put the toy away for a while, if you don't care, let him break the toy and if _he_ cares he will learn pretty quickly not to stand on his toys.[/QUOTE]

the reason why i dont want him to climb on the Chairs are they are high and over tile and i dont want him to fall down and hurt him self...same thing with the toys...i dont want him to hurt him self...you have it all wrong if your implying that i care about the toy breaking. i feel like you have totally judged me on how i treat my child in every aspect because i smacked his hand.


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## LolaK (Jan 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gottothinkpositive* 
one more thing...
i have tried this Dr sears suggestion about the screaming and they say to put your finger to your mouth and say shhhhhhh pretty basic but i have been doing it all day...and also whispering "small voices" so i will try this for awhile and see how it goes. they also recommend going to a designated spot to scream and the child can only scream at this spot so if the child screams and isn't in his "screaming spot" then remind him where it is appropriate to scream...i think that method is a bit out there...they suggested the spot to be the out in the yard on the grass....so every time i take him somewhere and there is grass he is going to feel its OK to scream like a banshee. i dont think so.

Are you talking about screaming to get attention when he is bored or screaming when you tell him no or move him off the chair? One is annoying the other is a temper tantrum.

My daughter used to scream a lot. I mostly ignored it, sometimes I told her she could go out on the porch. For the most part she has totally outgrown it. It is a VERY normal phase for kids to go through, is he just starting to talk a bit more?

If you are talking about temper tantrums. Then I would let him have them. When you are sad and you cry do you want your husband to tell you to shush or do you want him to comfort you? He is 18 months old, he has very few ways of expressing his feelings and a temper tantrum is one of those.

Try, in a calm soft voice "I am sorry you are sad/frustrated/angry. Mommy cannot let you do X because it isn't safe and it is mommy's job to keep you safe. Mommy loves you and is right here if you need a hug." Suggest something that he is allowed to do. I don't see any reason to punish my child for having a temper tantrum.


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## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

Here is my $.02. First, when DD was 18 months, timeout was completely out of the question. She just was not old enough for it. Now, at 27 months, I still do not use timeouts with her because I don't really like the idea of them. That is not to say I don't set boundaries, I do, but at 18 months redirection was sufficient with her. Really, what I can say is redirect, redirect, redirect.

For yelling, what has worked with us is to respond to her in a quiet voice. For some reason when I respond to her with a quiet voice, DD takes it down a couple of notches. So, if she is screaming I will respond back in a whisper, "you want to go to the park" and she will respond to me in a normal tone. I have also told her when she was screaming/whining that I couldn't understand her when she talked that way, could she please use a normal voice. My statement was absolutely true and that seemed to help. BUT. This is with a slightly older child.

Hitting doesn't help at all, in fact it makes the child more combattive. If you post with some specific examples of what you are having problems with, we can try to help.

Fair warning though. Hitting and spanking are not tolerated here. We will make suggestions if you have specific problems you want to work on though!

ETA: If it helps at all, right before DD went through a language explosion, she would scream and whine a lot. It only lasted for a week or two and then she would be expressing herself a bit better afterward.


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## gottothinkpositive (Apr 21, 2007)

its a tantrum i guess...its when he dosent get what he wants or if i need to change his diaper...

when you say to say all of this

Try, in a calm soft voice "I am sorry you are sad/frustrated/angry. Mommy cannot let you do X because it isn't safe and it is mommy's job to keep you safe. Mommy loves you and is right here if you need a hug." Suggest something that he is allowed to do. I don't see any reason to punish my child for having a temper tantrum

dont you think thats a lot of words for a 18 month old to comprehend???? the only thing he is hearing is mommy out of all that.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LolaK* 
Are you talking about screaming to get attention when he is bored or screaming when you tell him no or move him off the chair? One is annoying the other is a temper tantrum.

My daughter used to scream a lot. I mostly ignored it, sometimes I told her she could go out on the porch. For the most part she has totally outgrown it. It is a VERY normal phase for kids to go through, is he just starting to talk a bit more?

If you are talking about temper tantrums. Then I would let him have them. When you are sad and you cry do you want your husband to tell you to shush or do you want him to comfort you? He is 18 months old, he has very few ways of expressing his feelings and a temper tantrum is one of those.

Try, in a calm soft voice "I am sorry you are sad/frustrated/angry. Mommy cannot let you do X because it isn't safe and it is mommy's job to keep you safe. Mommy loves you and is right here if you need a hug." Suggest something that he is allowed to do. I don't see any reason to punish my child for having a temper tantrum.


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## gottothinkpositive (Apr 21, 2007)

thanks for the suggestion...yea he isnt screaming and saying something...its just a ear drum popping ahahahahah but i will start to whisper and see what happens...i just feel like it dosent work because he is so ahahahaha he isnt paying attention to what i am saying or doing...

i dont like to spank his hand and i do feel bad when i do, but its what i know i guess....and like i already said twice it isnt working so i dont want to keep doing something that dosent work and thats why i am on here...man you guys are tough...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lalaland42* 
Here is my $.02. First, when DD was 18 months, timeout was completely out of the question. She just was not old enough for it. Now, at 27 months, I still do not use timeouts with her because I don't really like the idea of them. That is not to say I don't set boundaries, I do, but at 18 months redirection was sufficient with her. Really, what I can say is redirect, redirect, redirect.

For yelling, what has worked with us is to respond to her in a quiet voice. For some reason when I respond to her with a quiet voice, DD takes it down a couple of notches. So, if she is screaming I will respond back in a whisper, "you want to go to the park" and she will respond to me in a normal tone. I have also told her when she was screaming/whining that I couldn't understand her when she talked that way, could she please use a normal voice. My statement was absolutely true and that seemed to help. BUT. This is with a slightly older child.

Hitting doesn't help at all, in fact it makes the child more combattive. If you post with some specific examples of what you are having problems with, we can try to help.

Fair warning though. Hitting and spanking are not tolerated here. We will make suggestions if you have specific problems you want to work on though!

ETA: If it helps at all, right before DD went through a language explosion, she would scream and whine a lot. It only lasted for a week or two and then she would be expressing herself a bit better afterward.


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## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

For the climbing on toys thing and climbing on chairs thing, this is my approach. With DD, I allowed her to do "dangerous" things like climb on chairs if I was there holding her hand. I let her explore things other parents wouldn't let her at if I was there demonstrating how they worked and then letting her do a safe part. For example, DD was fascinated with the food processor. I put food in there, told her that the blades would cut the food and then I let her press the button (I was holding the lid). I told her the blades were very sharp and they could hurt her but we could use it together. That kind of stuff helped with her curiousity. She knew it was unsafe by herself (because I told her) but that we would do it together. I would never let her play with something that was dangerous by herself or handle the parts that are dangerous but I don't see anything wrong with her observing or helping with the parts that are safe (like button pressing).


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## LolaK (Jan 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gottothinkpositive* 

you guys are acting like i am beating the crap out of my child...far far far from it...come on!!! OK YOU DONT BELIEVE IN smacking your child's hand...its more like a tap its not like i am ripping into my 18 month old....come on now.


We don't at all think that you are beating your child. We simply think that hitting a kid isn't okay. I think you have simply stumbled onto a community that has a very different perspetive from many of the people around you in real life. So in your real life community smacking a hand is no big deal, wouldn't raise any eyebrows, isn't considered "hitting" while around here it is a big deal.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gottothinkpositive* 
the reason why i dont want him to climb on the Chairs are they are high and over tile and i dont want him to fall down and hurt him self...same thing with the toys...i dont want him to hurt him self...you have it all wrong if your implying that i care about the toy breaking. i feel like you have totally judged me on how i treat my child in every aspect because i smacked his hand.

Not at all, there was simply very little info about what the problem actually is in your original post so it is hard to give suggestions. As I said already, teach him the safe way to climd on and off of the chairs. An 18 month old can do so very competently. If you are not comfortable with that, or they are bar stools or something then make it a game that you play with him so that he gets it out of his system but you are right there to keep him safe.

If the issue with the toys is safety then I would put away the toys you feel he could hurt himself on. OR get some foam tiles or a cheap carpet to put over the tiles so that if, or should I say WHEN he falls he won't do permanent damage. My daughter fell ALL THE TIME when she was around that age. It is really normal for them to fall down and get bumps and bruises. A quick nursing session usually "cures" a bruise.


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## gottothinkpositive (Apr 21, 2007)

yea of course i would explain to him about things that are dangerous and show him the right way but again he is only 18 months and he wont grasp all of that at this age.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lalaland42* 
For the climbing on toys thing and climbing on chairs thing, this is my approach. With DD, I allowed her to do "dangerous" things like climb on chairs if I was there holding her hand. I let her explore things other parents wouldn't let her at if I was there demonstrating how they worked and then letting her do a safe part. For example, DD was fascinated with the food processor. I put food in there, told her that the blades would cut the food and then I let her press the button (I was holding the lid). I told her the blades were very sharp and they could hurt her but we could use it together. That kind of stuff helped with her curiousity. She knew it was unsafe by herself (because I told her) but that we would do it together. I would never let her play with something that was dangerous by herself or handle the parts that are dangerous but I don't see anything wrong with her observing or helping with the parts that are safe (like button pressing).


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## earthmama369 (Jul 29, 2005)

I found 18 months to be a great age to start really explaining and giving choices, in addition to redirecting. I kept explanations short and simple, but that was when dd started to show a real interest in figuring out the "rules" of her world and how things worked.

Example: I'd be making breakfast and she'd try to get into the egg carton because she saw me cracking eggs open and, I imagine, it looked like a lot of fun. I'd tell her that I was going to crack the eggs because they can get pretty messy (explanation), and yes, it does look like a lot of fun (validation of her feelings), but she could stir the eggs in the pan instead (redirection). If she went back for the egg carton, I'd give her a choice. She could stir the eggs in the bowl or she could go out in the living room and play. It was giving her choices that really seemed key.

I've started doing this with ds (13 months), too, on a more concrete and immediate level. He's got a tremendous attention span and determination to do what he wants to do, though, so I'm looking for some new approaches, but "popping" or "swatting" him isn't in the cards for us. A complete change of scene works best so far.

Example: He'll climb up on the coffee table over and over and over again, no matter how many times I redirect him. (It's in front of the entertainment center to block his access to the buttons. So now he climbs it to reach the remotes on top of the entertainment center. Danger Baby.







: ) There's really no other way I can reconfigure the room to babyproof it any further, aside from getting rid of all of our furniture, so when he gets into one of those cycles and that's the only thing he'll do, we close up shop and go into a different room or outside and do something completely different.

It's a phase. It can be maddening and frustrating, but it's temporary. He knows I'm the parent, but he's not afraid of me and I don't want him to be. My rules about safety are firm. However, in recognition of his developmental level, I try not to expect more of him than he's ready to do. Telling him to stay off the coffee table is a good thing to do because it teaches him the words for the future, but I know it's no deterrent right now. Right now it's all about refiguring the environment around him, making his world safe to explore, and setting the stage for future growth by giving him the words now so we can communicate better later.


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## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gottothinkpositive* 
thanks for the suggestion...yea he isnt screaming and saying something...its just a ear drum popping ahahahahah but i will start to whisper and see what happens...i just feel like it dosent work because he is so ahahahaha he isnt paying attention to what i am saying or doing...

i dont like to spank his hand and i do feel bad when i do, but its what i know i guess....and like i already said twice it isnt working so i dont want to keep doing something that dosent work and thats why i am on here...man you guys are tough...

I think that 18 months is the age when DD started talking _a lot_. Right before then she was frustrated because she couldn't communicate as much as she wanted to.

Another thing I learned is that *even if DD is screaming*, she is still listening. It is the darndest thing to watch but she will be screaming her head off and I will ask her in a normal tone of voice, "you want to eat crackers right now", echoing back to her what I know she wants. Screaming _immediately_ stops and she says "yeah". Then, if my answer is no I will say something like, "we are not eating crackers right now because we will have dinner in a few minutes. We are having spaghetti, you like spaghetti, don't you?" and she will have forgotten about the crackers or we will repeat. We don't usually repeat more than 2x.


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## gottothinkpositive (Apr 21, 2007)

ok thanks for your posts ladies have a good week.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

IME they understand a lot more than we give them credit for.

I think you need to explain to him you should not have hit him and apologize.

-Angela


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## LolaK (Jan 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gottothinkpositive* 

dont you think thats a lot of words for a 18 month old to comprehend???? the only thing he is hearing is mommy out of all that.

I think two things:

1) You may be underestimating what he understands. My daughter was slow to talk but she clearly understood complex directions and ideas VERY early.

2) It isn't only about what he understands at this moment. Like anything, you plant the seeds now and build on them over time. For instance, I started talking to my daughter about taking turns and sharing at about 20 months. I didn't think for a second that she understood that idea at 20 months, however, I planted the seed and now at 2.5 years she is really starting to take turns with her peers. Part of what you are doing when you talk to him that way is using the soothing quality of your voice and the quite way of speaking to take the situation down a notch. You know when you get mad at your husband, if one of you raises his or her voice it is likely that the other one will respond in the same way. You are trying to do the opposite.


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## ABand3 (May 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gottothinkpositive* 
yea of course i would explain to him about things that are dangerous and show him the right way but again he is only 18 months and he wont grasp all of that at this age.

Maybe he won't grasp it the first time, but yes, at 18 months he will learn so quickly. Talk to him like he does understand, as short and simple as you can at first. Constantly explain, show him, talk about everything when he's upset and when he's not. You will have to repeat yourself over again many times, but he will get it. I think you'd be surprised at how much babies understand of what you say to them, even if they can't verbalize it back.


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## glorified_rice (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gottothinkpositive* 
yea of course i would explain to him about things that are dangerous and show him the right way but again he is only 18 months and he wont grasp all of that at this age.

You are underestimating your child. Children are aware of and are able to comprehend far more than you think. How do you expect him to ever learn anything if nothing is explained to him? Children are highly sophisticated people who deserve to be treated as such.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gottothinkpositive* 
ok thanks for your posts ladies have a good week.

Does this mean you'redropping out of this thread? I'm willing to offer more advice, but only if I know someone's reading it.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

I would highly recommend: Becoming the Parent you Want to Be

You might find it helpful to think of discipline from another perspective - what is it that you want your son to learn? How can you most effectively teach him that?

If you see discipline as teaching, rather than either punishing or stopping him, your discipline will be more effective in the long run.

So, for the standing on the chair type things - what do you want him to do? (not stand on the chair, right?) - instead of telling him what NOT to do, tell him what TO do. "Sit down on the chair." or "Chairs are for sitting." or "Put your bottom on the chair." If you say "no, don't stand" at 18 months, all he can think of is standing. But, if you tell him, "sit down", he has something different to think of. Heck even adults do this - what do you do if someone says "don't look over your shoulder, but.."? You want to look over your shoulder!

So, what do you do if he doesn't sit? Then I go over and gently help him sit. If he stands up again, I help him again and I say "sit down. If you stand, we're all done with the chair." If he stands again, I take him down and out of the room. No time out, just remove him and distract him with something else. We do some timeouts for hitting, but luckily in our house that's rare. (Not stellar parenting, just kids who don't hit much.)

These are more or less the rules that I followed when my kids were toddlers:

-Create an environment that doesn't lead to battles. Toddler proof to the max! Help him do things that he really wants to do so you can keep him safe. In stores, I teach my kids the "one finger touch". They can touch with their pointer finger. That gets the urge out and keeps stuff in the store safe.
-Don't just pay attention to children when they're misbehaving. Make sure they get attention at all times. (This will keep them from acting out just to get a bit of attention)

If they do something you don't want them to do:
-Ignore, if you can
-Then redirect if it continues by telling them what TO DO
-If they don't following your redirection, then gently help them comply, remove them or remove the object they are misusing. Warn of consequences (even for little ones, they may not understand yet, but they will soon!)

Remember that it's awfully hard to parent a toddler while at the stove or while your on the couch. They often need direct intervention/redirection.

Quote:

"I am sorry you are sad/frustrated/angry. Mommy cannot let you do X because it isn't safe and it is mommy's job to keep you safe. Mommy loves you and is right here if you need a hug."
I find this wordy too. But you can get the same message across with a lot fewer words:

Toddler stands on chair:
Me: ah-ah. Sit down.
Toddler: smiles
Me: (getting up and going over to child) Sit down. Chairs are for sitting.
Toddler: smiles.
Me: Here, let me help you sit down.
Toddler (a) sits and is OK or (b) screams in frustration
If (b) Me: oh, you're mad. You wanted to stand. But it's not safe. Do you want a hug?

Now, if it was ds, no way would he take a hug. He'd flail and get his anger out first. Dd would launch herself into my arms. So, different kids have different ways of dealing with frustration.

Remember he can't tie his shoes, put on his own clothes or talk in sentences. Like all things, expected behavior takes time to learn. Don't be surprised if you have to teach him two dozen times before it sticks.


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## gottothinkpositive (Apr 21, 2007)

good point. thanks

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LolaK* 
I think two things:

1) You may be underestimating what he understands. My daughter was slow to talk but she clearly understood complex directions and ideas VERY early.

2) It isn't only about what he understands at this moment. Like anything, you plant the seeds now and build on them over time. For instance, I started talking to my daughter about taking turns and sharing at about 20 months. I didn't think for a second that she understood that idea at 20 months, however, I planted the seed and now at 2.5 years she is really starting to take turns with her peers. Part of what you are doing when you talk to him that way is using the soothing quality of your voice and the quite way of speaking to take the situation down a notch. You know when you get mad at your husband, if one of you raises his or her voice it is likely that the other one will respond in the same way. You are trying to do the opposite.


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## gottothinkpositive (Apr 21, 2007)

also good, and i have noticed this happening with other situations.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ABand3* 
Maybe he won't grasp it the first time, but yes, at 18 months he will learn so quickly. Talk to him like he does understand, as short and simple as you can at first. Constantly explain, show him, talk about everything when he's upset and when he's not. You will have to repeat yourself over again many times, but he will get it. I think you'd be surprised at how much babies understand of what you say to them, even if they can't verbalize it back.


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## lucky_mia (Mar 13, 2007)

I have two very active just turned 19 month olds so I understand how difficult it can be. My DS is a climber. We have had to remove some furniture that didn't seem safe for him to climb on and then we added rugs with padding to the areas he spends the most time in. I do try to enforce sitting instead of standing on chairs/couches. We even covered the playroom floor with the blue foam mats (from Step 2). Now I am much more comfortable with all the climbing.

DS is also a screamer if he doesn't get his way. I do try to talk to him in simple terms. He may not understand all the words but I do think he understands the empathetic tone and in time he will understand the words. I might say, "I know you are sad but I can't let you __________. It is not safe". Then I try to distract him with something else. One thing that works well for DS is to then be very silly with him to get out of his mood with raspberries on his belly or putting on some music and dancing. Something physcial distracts him better than just a toy.

Lots of people here suggested the book Unconditional Parenting so I got it from the library and it is an interesting read about why time outs are ineffective in the long run.


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## gottothinkpositive (Apr 21, 2007)

i like what you have to say here and this is what i am doing 99.9% of the time...*(i dont go around smacking his hand every time i want to discipline him)...so i will keep doing this but i will explain more of what i do want him to do and i think i will redirect more then i have...i will stop the hand tapping "smacking" thank you very much for your encouraging words.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LynnS6* 
I would highly recommend: Becoming the Parent you Want to Be

You might find it helpful to think of discipline from another perspective - what is it that you want your son to learn? How can you most effectively teach him that?

If you see discipline as teaching, rather than either punishing or stopping him, your discipline will be more effective in the long run.

So, for the standing on the chair type things - what do you want him to do? (not stand on the chair, right?) - instead of telling him what NOT to do, tell him what TO do. "Sit down on the chair." or "Chairs are for sitting." or "Put your bottom on the chair." If you say "no, don't stand" at 18 months, all he can think of is standing. But, if you tell him, "sit down", he has something different to think of. Heck even adults do this - what do you do if someone says "don't look over your shoulder, but.."? You want to look over your shoulder!

So, what do you do if he doesn't sit? Then I go over and gently help him sit. If he stands up again, I help him again and I say "sit down. If you stand, we're all done with the chair." If he stands again, I take him down and out of the room. No time out, just remove him and distract him with something else. We do some timeouts for hitting, but luckily in our house that's rare. (Not stellar parenting, just kids who don't hit much.)

These are more or less the rules that I followed when my kids were toddlers:

-Create an environment that doesn't lead to battles. Toddler proof to the max! Help him do things that he really wants to do so you can keep him safe. In stores, I teach my kids the "one finger touch". They can touch with their pointer finger. That gets the urge out and keeps stuff in the store safe.
-Don't just pay attention to children when they're misbehaving. Make sure they get attention at all times. (This will keep them from acting out just to get a bit of attention)

If they do something you don't want them to do:
-Ignore, if you can
-Then redirect if it continues by telling them what TO DO
-If they don't following your redirection, then gently help them comply, remove them or remove the object they are misusing. Warn of consequences (even for little ones, they may not understand yet, but they will soon!)

Remember that it's awfully hard to parent a toddler while at the stove or while your on the couch. They often need direct intervention/redirection.

I find this wordy too. But you can get the same message across with a lot fewer words:

Toddler stands on chair:
Me: ah-ah. Sit down.
Toddler: smiles
Me: (getting up and going over to child) Sit down. Chairs are for sitting.
Toddler: smiles.
Me: Here, let me help you sit down.
Toddler (a) sits and is OK or (b) screams in frustration
If (b) Me: oh, you're mad. You wanted to stand. But it's not safe. Do you want a hug?

Now, if it was ds, no way would he take a hug. He'd flail and get his anger out first. Dd would launch herself into my arms. So, different kids have different ways of dealing with frustration.

Remember he can't tie his shoes, put on his own clothes or talk in sentences. Like all things, expected behavior takes time to learn. Don't be surprised if you have to teach him two dozen times before it sticks.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gottothinkpositive* 
its more like a tap its not like i am ripping into my 18 month old

Tapping/smacking(which you also called it)/popping - ALL HITTING, ALL ABUSIVE, ALL NOT OK AND NOT CONDONED HERE!
Alot of us have lost it and hit our kids, most are heartbroken about it. Please stop defending this. Work on change or take it elsewhere!


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## Ceili (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
Tapping/smacking(which you also called it)/popping - ALL HITTING, ALL ABUSIVE, ALL NOT OK AND NOT CONDONED HERE!
Alot of us have lost it and hit our kids, most are heartbroken about it. Please stop defending this. Work on change or take it elsewhere!

If you read her last post, you'd see she said she was going to stop.

My son is a climber. He was climbing before he walked. We've bolted pratically every piece of furniture we own to the wall. For me redirection was really key at that age. "This (bookshelf) is not for climbing, we can climb on this (slide) instead." And then physical removal of either the child or the object that was causing the issue.


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## gretelmom (Jun 22, 2005)

It's not that he doesn't CARE if you discipline him.

There are certain kids/babies who are very outwardly sensitive to praise as well as correction. My son is the one who, in a time out, sits and either laughs or does nothing. If we raise voices he laughs or ignores. If we say no, he ignores...

That is, until about four months ago when everything we consistently said started setting in. The things we were consistent on, he'd look at (like touching the water in the fish tank) and say "No-No. No Touch, Please." and didn't touch it! He was about 2 when this change happened. I was like "HOLY COW HE WAS LISTENING".

And it turns out, he was really sensitive to things I said and did. He had a defense mechanism (though maybe not so complicated) that made him laugh when I was mad. Thank GOD my friend Kerri told me that's what he was doing, she said "He gets it. Don't go over the top. He's listening, you'll see."

He's now very sensitive to everything, that toughness is a phase for most kids. Be sure to not do damage now, while he's not showing how much it affects him!

Joanna


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## Lia & Eva's Mama (Jul 10, 2007)

this is totally out their but when DD is having a tantrum i remove her while singing on top of spagetti to drown out her tantrum. she usually calms down immediatly. i just try to diffuse the situation as its starting so the tantrum dosn't get out of hand. we teach her asl sign and she has a very big vocabulary and that helps her a lot with frustration. if she breaks her toys or throws them i take them away.
i tottaly agree with you Lynns6 its very good to watch how one words things to a toddler.


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## moonyoungi (Jul 3, 2007)

I just want to say that....*looking around first*
I can understand your frustration and I understand why you wanted to try smack on a hand thing, because you wanted to see if it worked. I know I did it couple times when my DS ran into the parking lot and scared the heck out of me, which I don't feel so proud of...but I kind of got scared and also I wanted to see if it worked...I think not..
I felt really really bad yesterday, because my almost 2-year old son broke a glass cup yesterday, and while I was trying to clean it up, he kept wanting to walk over to the "site" and see what was up. I kept telling hime to stay away, stay away...but of course...he kept coming over. With nobody around to help me, I kind of didn't know what to do (I didn't want to pick him up and put him in another room because there were some glass crumbs on my hand) and I got bit angry and pushed my son and he fell backwards. He was stunned at first and he started crying and started saying, "hug mommy hug"
I felt really bad and I apologized and I tried to explain that it really hurts if he steps on glass shards, so please stay away...he still wanted to come over, so I had to put a video for him to watch while I cleaned...which I feel bad about as well....







:
ah...the motherhood...it's tough whatever discipline method you choose.
I think gentle reinforcement, distraction, removing as much temtation as possible and loving, comforting are the best. But sometimes I either lose it, or wonder if a smack on a hand will be better understood, after I explain 100 times not to bite mommy, because it hurts....
Anyway all I'm saying is I understand, and I hope you can get through this tough stage without any smacking...nobody likes to smack their children...like you said, for some people, that's all they know and they need help.
Let's do the best we can to raise our children, yeah?


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## Demeter9 (Nov 14, 2006)

Okay, there is a difference between a time out and placing your child in a place that is safe for them to freak out in.

My children screaming at top form makes my skin crawl and my adrenaline pump. I know, people think I'm a terrible person because of this. Whatever. I also have other children to deal with, so I cannot put MYSELF in a better spot most of the time. So, my children get put in their room. Even at 18 months. They are not in time out. They are in a safe spot, and they are free to leave when they are done.

I feel that this is in between way of dealing with it. It means reworking your expectations of what you are trying to accomplish.

You are correct - punishment doesn't usually accomplish what you want.

Further. Toddlers scream and cry. There isn't much you can do about it, but accept that is so and let them do it. You cannot take it away. You cannot give them the pair of scissors to make it go away. You can let them just BE upset that the world isn't EXACTLY what they want right this second. It isn't. You don't need to ADD to their frustration with it. The fact itself is quite enough.


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## Shanana (May 11, 2005)

You've gotten a lot of good advice, and I particularly agree with what LynnS6 said. She gave some great, concrete examples







. I also wanted to mention that sometimes my dd screams and cries because she thinks I don't understand her. For example, let's say she's trying to do something and can't do it and gets frustrated and wants my help. She starts screaming and crying. I'm at the sink cutting up chicken and I need 30 seconds to set down the knife, wash my hands, etc. So I was saying things like, "Okay! Hold on a second! I'm COMING!!!!" And one day it dawned on me that she probably didn't really understand what I meant, and the fact that I didn't respond immediately obviously meant I didn't know what she wanted, right?! So she needed to keep screaming to get her point across







. So now I try to reflect her request back to her, e.g., "You want me to help you unzip that bag, right? Okay sweetie, I need to wash my hands and then I'll be able to help you. Just hold on for one second, okay?" It doesn't always work, but a lot of the time she settles down when she realizes that I do indeed understand what she wants. And this is helpful even when I can't give her what she wants (e.g., a pair of scissors







). I may not give her what she wants, but at least she knows I understand her; and I also try to do the validation of feelings other posters mentioned. So again, it goes like, "I know you want to play with those scissors. They look like a lot of fun, and you're angry that you don't get to play with them. They are not safe, so mommy is going to put them away. Let's find something else to play with."

The examples LynnS6 gave of physically helping the child comply with your request (e.g., going over and getting them to sit in the chair instead of stand) is also a good one. I think the physical reinforcement of the verbal request is really important at this age, and it helps them learn what you're asking of them. It's a pain, because it means you have to stop what you're doing, but this is a fairly short-lived stage.

Good luck, and I commend you for looking for alternatives







.


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## Stinkerbell (Aug 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 
I think you have unrealistic expectations for an 18 month old. If you are not willing to accept that you are wrong for hitting a baby and putting them in a time out, then you will likely not get much support here.

Exactly. I'm not going to bash you but yu do realize this is an AP BOARD, so hitting an 18 month old is not going to be supported here, right?

But really, he's 18 months. That's less than two years in that little body in our world and he will NOT just "obey" you, no matter how forceful you try to be. If you are loving and understanding and provide GUIDANCE as opposed to PUNISHMENT, he will absolutely have a great chance at becoming a person with good decision making skills and self control.

But as long as you see this as a baby being willful and disobedient, you are contributing to the problem. Big time. It WILL get worse.

And the other important thing is to realixe its going to take a looong time and a LOT of repetition for him to get it. A lot.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

The challenge at this age is the fact that they _can_ understand a lot, and they can run around and climb, etc. -- but they still lack impulse control. You have to be careful NOT to underestimate their intelligence, because they really do understand most of what they hear -- but at the same time, you have to be careful not to have real high expecations that they will follow through and DO what makes sense. The part of their thinking abilities that makes them stop, listen, and make sensible choices is not finished developing. They have no resistance to temptation!

Mostly you just have to stay right on top of them and keep them safe, move them when they are in danger and keep explaining and talking to them. Its exhausting! You spend all your time on your feet at this age, and never get anything done -- but thats okay.

If he has a tantrum, you do not have to give in to what he wants, but its important to use some feeling words to describe what he is experiencing. Show empathy. The reason for this, is that eventually you want him to use words to say he's mad or frustrated, instead of having a tantrum. He can't do that now -- he doesn't talk, really. But he understands -- so YOU do the talking. Tell him that he's mad, tell him that he's frustrated, tell him that you understand those things. He will learn to associate those "feeling words" with what he is experiencing. Its a great learning experience.

When you redirect him, or remove him, if he doesn't care -- thats okay too. Its okay if he doesn't get upset about discipline. The point is not to upset him, the point is to protect him and stop him from doing dangerous or hurtful things. As long as that happens -- as long as the negative behavior is stopped -- then you've met the goal. He doesn't need to be sad.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

I know you said you wouldn't slap him again -- but I wanted to share this Dr. Sears quote with you, because hand slapping in particular is so damaging. It is from this article: http://www.askdrsears.com/html/6/T062100.asp

Quote:

_SLAPPING HANDS
How tempting it is to slap those daring little hands! Many parents do it without thinking, but consider the consequences. Maria Montessori, one of the earliest opponents of slapping children's hands, believed that children's hands are tools for exploring, an extension of the child's natural curiosity. Slapping them sends a powerful negative message. Sensitive parents we have interviewed all agree that the hands should be off-limits for physical punishment. Research supports this idea. Psychologists studied a group of sixteen fourteen-month-olds playing with their mothers. When one group of toddlers tried to grab a forbidden object, they received a slap on the hand; the other group of toddlers did not receive physical punishment. In follow-up studies of these children seven months later, the punished babies were found to be less skilled at exploring their environment. Better to separate the child from the object or supervise his exploration and leave little hands unhurt._


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## elizawill (Feb 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gottothinkpositive* 
when i discipline my 18th month old he doesn't even seem to care...he just keeps doing his thing...if i tell him no an remove him from the situation he may scream or do nothing at all.... if absolutely needed i will smack his hand and he doesn't even care...how am i to discipline my child. i dont remember my daughter being like this...when his dad tells him no sometimes he may cry but with me...i get nothing...does he not respect me? am i giving him too much credit he is just a 18 month old...i dont get it....i tried time out once and i know that isnt much but i feel like he dosent get the concept and i would have to stay there with him to keep him there for 30 sec and i really dont feel like he gets it. any suggestions please.

i started to read through this thread, but it's too much for my brain right now...i'm tired







i just wanted to respond to you and encourage you. you can do this mama. 18 months can be a hard age, because they are entering toddlerhood. they want to walk, run, touch, explore, experiment, test their limits, etc....and it can be a real job keeping up with them. i know it feels like he's being disobedient, but he honestly is just being a 1 1/2 year old. i'm not saying you need to ignore all of his behaviors because he's only one, ....but when you teach, correct, and redirect him, you can't expect him to fully comply yet, yk? anyway, like i said, i'm not sure what you've posted beyond your first comment, but i wanted to encourage you. contrary to many beliefs in our society, you can raise respectable children without yelling and hitting them. you can do this mama!!







hugs to you.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LynnS6* 
I would highly recommend: Becoming the Parent you Want to Be

You might find it helpful to think of discipline from another perspective - what is it that you want your son to learn? How can you most effectively teach him that?

If you see discipline as teaching, rather than either punishing or stopping him, your discipline will be more effective in the long run.

Ita!

When ds was younger, my steps for getting him to stop something were:
1. Give Information- don't just assume that kids know what you know. Tell them how their actions affect you and/or other people. "I don't like to be hit. It can hurt!" Because, really, if it doesn't hurt THEM when they hit you, they have no way of knowing it! Express your feelings, honestly without being judgmental.

2. Empathize- Let kids know that you understand/try to understand how they feel. "It's frustrating when you want me to read to you, and I don't right away." The child's needs/desires/feelings/opinions matter just as much as anyone else's. (a lot of the time, I find that empathizing happens in the process of honoring the impulse, so I don't generally specifically try to empathize)

3. Honor the Impulse- The IMPULSE behind the action is legitimate, its just the action that is unacceptable. - ie: ds is hitting me with that book because he wants me to read it." (The hitting is unacceptable, but the *impulse* is a legitimate impulse. He wants me to read to him, he just doesn't know a better way to express that impulse) The impulse behind the action won't just go away. The child will continue to use the best way they know how, to express that impulse (which can mean continued hitting, etc). The best thing to do is to find a better way for the child to express that particular impulse.

4. Find Acceptable alternatives/ Mutually agreeable solutions - "If you want me to read to you, put the book in my hand." Be specific! (I've had many times where "acceptable alternatives" don't seem to work. But I realize that I was not being specific enough!)

here's an article from Becoming the Parent that I really like http://www.becomingtheparent.com/all/subsection13.html

And an article by Jan Hunt Looking Past the Behavior There are also lots of other great articles on that site.

These are the types of advice I would have been lost without, when ds was younger.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gottothinkpositive* 
when his dad tells him no sometimes he may cry but with me...i get nothing...does he not respect me?

This really really struck me. Are you taking the crying as a sign that he's listening to dad? That's not respect at all! He might just know that when dad says something, that he's going to be stopped from doing something fun. That his impulses and reasons for doing x in the first place, aren't going to be honored. know what I'm saying?
As I said in my last post, when ds was younger "honor the impulse" was my main discipline method. It worked beautifully. It taught him what actions were not acceptable, and it also taught him that I cared what his reasons and impulses were, and that I'd help him to find a way to express his impulses in an acceptable way.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gottothinkpositive* 
my house is baby proofed quite well but its other situations like standing on top of his toy...trying to climb the chair and the screaming when he docent get his way.

My way of dealing with climbing was this: I did the honor the impulse thing. The *impulse* to climb is a quite legitimate impulse. But some things, let's face it, are not that safe for an 18mo to climb on! So I found him other things that he COULD climb on, and redirected him to those things. I had a picnic table inside under a window, I let him climb on the couch, I even let him climb on our step stools when I was right there. As he got more steady, I let him climb on more things.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

OP, I wholeheartedly (and not surprisingly) agree with everything LynnS6, mamaduck, and Deva33mommy have to say - don't have anything to add other than that really; I'd follow most any advice any of them gave here on any topic.














:


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## sagira (Mar 8, 2003)

Excellent recommendations, especially from Deva33mommy.

Mamaduck wrote:

Quote:

When you redirect him, or remove him, if he doesn't care -- thats okay too. Its okay if he doesn't get upset about discipline. The point is not to upset him, the point is to protect him and stop him from doing dangerous or hurtful things. As long as that happens -- as long as the negative behavior is stopped -- then you've met the goal. He doesn't need to be sad.
As usual, I wholeheartedly agree with what mamaduck writes









It helps to know that this stage doesn't last forever. Lots of repetition, redirecting constantly eventually makes it stick. I know my life is a lot easier now that ds (he'll be 4 in September) picks up his blocks on his own, can control his impulses very well.. and I never smacked his hand. Be patient (I know, not easy with a child that age) and just keep repeating, redirecting, all in a matter-of-fact way, kind and firm way.

Remember to give lots of hugs and don't forget to develop your relationship to your child, as this is the single most important thing in establishing a leadership position -- your child wants to listen to you because he trusts you and knows you love him and set limits firmly but never harshly, but kindly. Good luck!


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## gottothinkpositive (Apr 21, 2007)

all very good advice ladies...thank you so much for caring to help with other alternatives...its good to hear other poeples perspectives and my gutt was teling me that he is too young to understand my reaseons and redirecting is working great...so is distracting when the tantrum starts up. My mom would disagree but this is what i want to do...my thoughts are he is only 18 months...thanks again!!!!


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Its not easy to parent differently than our own parents did. Its hard when we haven't had that role model, and even harder when we don't have their approval for the choices we make with our own kids. I'm feeling kind of proud of you - for thinking this issue through and stepping outside the mold!


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