# my therapist spent the entire session bashing my parenting style



## kaitlyncakesmama (Aug 22, 2008)

this is only my second session w/ this therapist. when i went in today she asked what was on my mind, and so i brought up the fact that my husband and i often do not see eye-to-eye on parenting issues. i said that i feel hurt that he does not trust my instincts as a mother, and irritated that he argues w/ me w/o doing any of his own research.

when the therapist asked what the disagreement was about this time, i said it was over the use of the word no. i said that i will set limits but that i don't want dd (11 mo) to grow up saying that to me. i told her about gentle discipline and attachment parenting. she asked me where i got this "idea" from, and to tell her more about "this attachment parenting."

she said that she saw me trying to compensate for my own abusive and dysfunctional childhood, that how i'm raising my dd could be damaging, that i should create an environment at home that is like the outside world, that babies don't have the cognitive development to understand anything but no, that dd is going to be shocked when other people say no to her...she also said that children saying no is normal, that it is just part of the terrible twos, and that the more they say it, the healthier!

okay, so...wth??? i've had issues w/ my ob about how to birth my daughter, w/ my ped about how to treat (medically) my daughter, and now i'm getting crap about how to raise her??? why do i feel like people act like ap is some kind of freakish parenting cult???

i can't even comprehend what she said to me right now. i'm trying to understand, but i absolutely don't. maybe i'm just being stubborn and defensive. but i just think it's really sad how our society views childbirth and childrearing. or am i just crazy?? i feel like i've gotten so much crap and criticism!

the therapist pointed to all her certifications for this and that, that she has seen parents who can't control their children, moms who are young (gee, thanks)...all making me feel like i'm not a good mom. and this is for doing too much, caring too much? she thinks my views are very "extreme." seriously?? she advised for me to read up on child development and to take a parenting class at the ymca (i think).

so on top of that i come home to report to my hubby that he was right, that the therapist agrees w/ him. she said she agreed w/ me 50%, but that if she continues talking to me maybe only 30%. so dh chimes in that he has suspected that i am "this way" because i'm trying so hard not to be my own mother, and that dd is going to grow up to hate me for trying to control everything in her life, and that we are letting dd do whatever she wants. i don't...get...it. what am i doing wrong????

so i ask him if he thinks this has to do w/ my abusive past, why everybody else does ap. he said, "maybe they have too much time on their hands." omg, what?? he also uses the argument, "well my mom did this and i turned out fine." or, "i was raised this way so i want to do this."

i'm totally feeling very...attacked and confused. what part of natural birth, nursing on demand, co-sleeping, babywearing, cloth diapering, ec-ing, gentle disciple, no cio, and responding to my childs needs asap in general do people find so inappropriate and offensive?

by all means lecture/argue w/ me if i'm somehow neglecting/endangering my child or not meeting her needs but...for this??? is this ever going to end?? i'm tired of always having to explain/defend myself to everyone.

and then as i was leaving and paying (ugh), i asked the therapist if she had any children and she said no. surprise.


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## dani76 (Mar 24, 2004)

I would find a new therapist, a new ob/gyn or even better...a midwife, and tell DH to watch out or maybe you'll replace him too. I'm kidding....well mostly.









I figure there are different therapists who believe in different things. Find one who is more supportive of your parenting choices. I would try to find some middle ground with your DH. Pick your battles and really try to listen to his views. I know that I am choosing AP because it is what feels right, and because of the uninvolved mother I had growing up. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be a "better" parent than your own parents. When you know better, you do better.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kaitlyncakesmama* 
and then as i was leaving and paying (ugh), i asked the therapist if she had any children and she said no. surprise.

First







:

and second









I'm sorry, but that should tell you something.

Find a new therapist before you start doubting yourself. I could write a book about the dumb things I thought about children and discipline before I had any.


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## Dea (Sep 26, 2006)

sigh.
I swear (and you know what I think) that you are doing everything the way you need it to be done. And for what it's worth, I am doing all of the same, and I get trouble for it too, and yet I get compliments on Trixie's disposition all of the time, and I bet you do too on your DD.
Keep doing what your gut tells you to do. Granted it's a little alternative in North America, but it's not over all.
About wanting to do better than your parents; well why not? We know more now, so why not use it.
Sigh. I'll email you...
or even better, see you in a few days!


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## lovbeingamommy (Jun 17, 2007)

What's sad to me is that your paying this childless professional to feed you [email protected] Find a new therapist like yesterday.







I mean I love debate and arguement but certainly not if I'm paying someone to help me.


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## Ghislaine (Jul 12, 2008)

Ugh! Definitely new therapist time! And I'll bet one of your first questions before scheduling an appointment is if the therapist has kids! It's probably a good thing you found out that this one is this unsupportive of your choices after only a couple of appointments.


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## ema-adama (Dec 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kaitlyncakesmama* 
okay, so...wth??? i've had issues w/ my ob about how to birth my daughter, w/ my ped about how to treat (medically) my daughter, and now i'm getting crap about how to raise her??? why do i feel like people act like ap is some kind of freakish parenting cult???

You are not alone







I am dealing with this too.

Quote:

i can't even comprehend what she said to me right now. i'm trying to understand, but i absolutely don't. maybe i'm just being stubborn and defensive. but i just think it's really sad how our society views childbirth and childrearing. or am i just crazy?? i feel like i've gotten so much crap and criticism!
You are NOT crazy.... and I would not listen to anyone telling you you are stubborn and defensive in the same breath that they are telling you off on how you parent.

Quote:

the therapist pointed to all her certifications for this and that, that she has seen parents who can't control their children, moms who are young (gee, thanks)...all making me feel like i'm not a good mom. and this is for doing too much, caring too much? she thinks my views are very "extreme." seriously?? she advised for me to read up on child development and to take a parenting class at the ymca (i think).
I would second reading up on child development. You would find her ideas to be outdated.

Quote:

so on top of that i come home to report to my hubby that he was right, that the therapist agrees w/ him. she said she agreed w/ me 50%, but that if she continues talking to me maybe only 30%. so dh chimes in that he has suspected that i am "this way" because i'm trying so hard not to be my own mother, and that dd is going to grow up to hate me for trying to control everything in her life, and that we are letting dd do whatever she wants. i don't...get...it. what am i doing wrong????
There may be elements of not wanting to repeat mistakes, and I personally do try to keep that in mind so that I am not 'blinded' in how I react to DS. However, wanting to respond to your DC's cues and create an environment where your DC is secure and loved is far off from not repeating mistakes. It's good parenting.

Quote:

so i ask him if he thinks this has to do w/ my abusive past, why everybody else does ap. he said, "maybe they have too much time on their hands." omg, what?? he also uses the argument, "well my mom did this and i turned out fine." or, "i was raised this way so i want to do this."
Um, I am meeting lots of this too.....







It is tough. I remind myself that it is also not just about the outcome, it is also about the process and I feel much happier and more content knowing my baby is loved and secure... I need to enjoy being a mother as well as meet my child's needs. For me that means doing AP (well mostly)

Quote:

i'm totally feeling very...attacked and confused. what part of natural birth, nursing on demand, co-sleeping, babywearing, cloth diapering, ec-ing, gentle disciple, no cio, and responding to my childs needs asap in general do people find so inappropriate and offensive?
No answers, but it definitely gets people very jumpy. We have such a huge fall out with MIL that we are considering not seeing her for an extended period of time due to how offended she is by all of this and her inability to leave us alone. I am trying not to worry about why it gets under people's skin so badly... I am trying to tell myself it doesn't really matter. But it is tough, and I want to good reason to excuse why they are being so mean and make what I am doing OK.... haven't found it yet.

Quote:

by all means lecture/argue w/ me if i'm somehow neglecting/endangering my child or not meeting her needs but...for this??? is this ever going to end?? i'm tired of always having to explain/defend myself to everyone.
I am so there myself... being so tired of explaining myself to everyone. So I am just stopping. Well trying to anyway, it is work in progress.

Quote:

and then as i was leaving and paying (ugh), i asked the therapist if she had any children and she said no. surprise.
That is VERY hilarious.







To be honest, before I became a mother I thought sleep sharing, feeding on demand, and gentle discipline were sure ways to scr*w your child up for ever. (I never told anyone who did these things my opinion, but I was sure that they would regret it - and now I *love* being a parent in this way) I thought routine was the way to go and it would make my child secure... HA, not so.

Anyway, your post totally hit a nerve with me as it is so much of what I am trying to make sense of for now.

I am sorry you do not have the support of your DH. That does make it tough.









Find a new therapist ASAP.


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

tell your therapist she needs to go stop handing out advice on things she is not qualified to talk about. my therapist and my psychiatrist are about as AP/NFL as it gets.. extended bf, delayed/ selective vaxing, gentle discipline..etc... so your therapist can shove it b/c the rest of the psych world is by no means in any kind of agreement about this.









remember OBs are surgeons and many are not qualified to deal with a healthy pg, Pediatricians are medical doctors not nutritionists or parenting experts, and therapists whose patients are only adults are generally only qualified to speak about adults.. the only one who can tell you how to parent your child is you!!

your dh is being a butthead btw.


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## marimara (Jan 31, 2008)

s

This post just made me so sad for you. Just try to read up alot about AP and stay on MDC







and keep as many AP people around you to rally support. You ARE doing the right thing for your children! Trust yourself, you are their mother. Your therapist is clueless and I second finding a new one. I wouldn't even bother going back to tell her off or anything.

There is nothing wrong with AP. Her ideas on child rearing are (as someone already said) outdated and her OPINION-not Fact! She is not doing her duty as a supportive therapist by dishing out her opinions as facts and making you feel bad about them. Just trust yourself, mama!

Maybe you could look for a family therapist? Or maybe there is a way to find a AP therapist? I have no idea, just throwing that out there.

Good luck to you! Keep up the good work, you are doing an awesome job, mama!


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## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

I would not waste more time with this therapist. It is not what you are going for and a waste of your time, not to mention the negative effects it may have on you.

When you look for someone new maybe you can right off the bat clear the air that you are not there for generalized opinions on a parenting style...that you realize the attached style you have chosen is unusual in today's world but that you are happy with that aspect of your life and it's not what you are seeking help with. A good therapist will be able to work around that. Anyone who feels the need to bring out their own hangups in your session is not worth your time.


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## goodygumdrops (Jan 25, 2007)

I am going to be the voice of dissent here.

First of all, I have been seeing a therapist since my son was 6 months old. Becoming a mother was really hard for me because I grew up a child of a single father. One thing that my therapist pointed out about mdc/internet is that it enables us to find communities of people with all of the same views. She pointed out that the real world doesn't work like that. When we meet moms at a play group or the park and we talk about parenting, we are usually getting a variety of experiences.

Another thing that she helped me deal with the overwhelming guilt I had associated with the "all or nothing" part of ap. I find that a lot of mamas on this forum can be quite judgemental and I was basing my parenting self-worth on how "ap" I was.

Another thing that you write in your post is that your therapist said that she thought you might be overcompensating from have a disfunctional childhood. I certainly struggled with this exact thing when I started therapy and I even said this exact thing to my therapist. I questioned myself if I was drawn to the ap method of parenting because I wanted to be the mother I never had.

I do understand the irony of going to a therapist that doesn't have any children. I think of anything that you write in your post, that would be the hardest for me to deal with. I mean having a babe is sooo life changing, it's hard to be in therapy with someone that has no idea how a babe impacts a family. However, I wouldn't necessarily write that off...I mean she is a professional with extensive training. I mean if your always going to want you therapist to tell you what you want to hear, why not save the money and talk with a friend, instead.


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## ChristyMarie (May 31, 2006)

Find a new therapist!!! She is clearly not qualified to help anyone who doesn't agree with her opinions.


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## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

I would find a new therapist, and I would write a letter to her licensing board. She has no realistic view of parenting. To compare someone not wanting to say "no" to an 11 month old, to someone with an older child that is not receiving sufficient guidance, is really just useless. Your baby is 11 months old. If she wants to be a therapist she needs to be sensitive to different choices and not snap judge based on her abstract theory of the month.


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## Twinklefeet (Mar 19, 2008)

ACK!! Find a new therapist, and keep up the great parenting with your child. You are doing the very best that anyone can do, and no one can parent your child better than you can. No one.


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## CanidFL (Jul 30, 2007)

I agree to find a new therapist but not for the reasons stated above. A therapist should not be giving parenting advice if you are there for your marriage. Period. You went there specifically for problems with your DH that just happen to relate to parenting. She should be working on that issue.

DH and I saw a therapist and we had several issues but parenting techniques was one of them. The therapist did not agree with most of the AP style but never once did I feel she sided with DH. She gave us tools to work together and find a common ground. So she may not agree with X, Y and Z but that is not the issue, the issue is DH and I were fighting about X, Y and Z. She helped us find out the root of the problem and how to work through that. Of course she made a few comments about how she did things with her daughter but I didn't feel it as a judgment on my parenting style.

You therapist shouldn't be choosing sides. They should be pointing out things in a new light that you may not have seen before and helping you work through your issues. To say that she only agrees with you 30% of the time is ridiculous. It doesn't matter if she agrees with you! She should be neutral.

I hope that makes sense. Please find a therapist that will not bash your style but rather work on the issues. In a marriage, there needs to be compromise and sometimes we don't get to do everything our way. You need to work through these issues with DH and find common ground while still respecting your daughter.







I hope that doesn't sound harsh but after going to the brink of divorce and making our way back to a loving relationship, compromise and communication is a big part of a marriage.


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## mama_mojo (Jun 5, 2005)

I think those of us with abusive childhoods to overcome CAN swing the pendulum too far the other direction, so that our 8 yo are running the house instead participating on our community. HOWEVER, an 11 mo is a BABY. I cannot stand getting advice appropriate for an 8 yo when I'm talking about a 3 yo and vice versa, and only a know-it-all with no kids would make this flagrant mistake. Trust yourself, and get a new therapist. It sounds like you already have enough dissenters in your life to give you a chance to re-evaluate your choices.


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## rainbowmoon (Oct 17, 2003)

oh honey you aren't doing ANYTHING wrong! this is a classic example of how different we all are from one another. look for a new therapist..and next time someone questions your parenting I would tell them very sweetly (With a smile) but point blank you will raise your kids the way you see fit because you're their MOTHER!


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

My sister just finished her psychology Ph.D with an emphasis on child development and guess what-- she, and she says other CHILD psychologists, are 100% totally on-board with AP. I went to a psychologist last year for my anxiety, and he said flat-out "I won't give you any child-rearing advice because my son is grown and my child development classes were 30 years ago." So you may have better luck if you can find a family therapist who also sees individual adults.

I can ask my sister for the names of the studies she studied, if you like.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Is your therapist also a child therapist? If not, she really isn't in a position to discuss child development issues.

I'd find a new one.


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kaitlyncakesmama* 

...she also said that children saying no is normal, that it is just part of the terrible twos, and that the more they say it, the healthier!

It IS true that two-year-olds say "no" a lot. That doesn't mean 11-month-olds need to hear it all the time. My sister never says no to DS, she actually is a lot more gentle and playful with him than I am.

If you do go back to this therapist, tell her in so many words, "Attachment Parenting gets its name from Bowlby's _Attachment and Loss_ work." (This is true.) If that is familiar to her and she opens up a little, that's a good sign.


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## alivia (May 11, 2007)

I saw your post in the new posts and just wanted to offer







. My dh and I have been on the brink of separation ourselves, drug ourselves to a counselor, and found our way back again.

While AP criticism can be very annoying from the general public, from your dh it can be devastating and the last place you need to be hearing it is in the marriage counselor's office. A previous poster mentioned that the marriage counselor's job is to help you guys communicate & agree, not to take sides, and I think that's the most important part of everything you said -- your counselor isn't doing that. To continue with her would be a waste of money & probably wouldn't help your marriage.

If it were me, I'd present it to dh just that way. I'd tell him that I didn't feel comfortable with her taking sides & I wasn't interested in proving or defending my points in the office (I can do that at home for free), I was interested in getting back to a good place with him. And so I wanted to find someone else. It's not uncommon for couples to "try out" several counselors before finding a good fit for both of them.

Our dd is 5 yo now so we've been down this parenting path together for awhile now. Fortunately, parenting & the AP style wasn't one of things we argued about very much as we both tend to agree on that approach. But, from a long-view perspective, becoming new parents is HARD on a marriage & it can take a few years to recuperate from the hit. DH & I got in a pattern where we were pitting ourselves against each other, so minor disagreements we could have easily compromised on became huge disagreements that just proved how wrong we were for each other.

I'm wondering if maybe that's what's going on with you & dh. Now that AP has become a recognized "issue" between you, maybe each of you proving yourselves right has become more important than finding a middle ground. IMO, a good therapist would recognize this & work on getting each of you to explain your reasons behind what you are choosing and how the other person's way makes you feel so that you can find solutions you are both comfortable with. A good therapist would not point fingers since pointing fingers takes a marriage down the drain pretty quickly.

It is so hard to go against the mainstream without dh's support. FWIW, about half of the moms in our local AP community started out this parenting journey without their dh's support on AP issues & 5, 6, 7 years later those same dh's are telling other dads outside the community about the benefits of co-sleeping and extended nursing, etc. Little by little they just changed their minds here & there.


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## Kappa (Oct 15, 2007)

My aunt raised 4 children never saying "No" to kids when they were small. She isn't even AP. It's not some new age idea going against the natural development of a child. It's not required to raise a normal child, at all. Go find a new therapist. You should not feel judged for your choices while getting therapy.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

If you'd had a year's relationship with the therapist, I might not say this. But since this is a new therapist - fire her; get another one. There are lots out there and you can find a better match.

That doesn't mean you need a therapist that never, ever challenges you - but this one is over the top.


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## Roar (May 30, 2006)

I guess the good news you found out very early into the process that this isn't someone you can work well with. I hope this negative experience doesn't put you off seeking therapy though. It is a positive thing to look for help and there are good therapists out there so please don't give up.

I would suggest when you look for a new therapist that you start with a job interview and you are the employer. Ask about how they approach the kinds of problems you have - ask how much they give advice, ask what they do when they disagree with you, etc.

It doesn't sound like the therapist was at all respectful of you as a thinking, caring person - but that said, and this isn't popular on MDC, I think the therapist was partially right that there can be a kind of all consuming AP that sometimes folks with really dysfunctional childhoods are drawn to. The moms absolutely mean well and want to be better moms than they had - but AP an become a rigid set of perfectionist rules that no one can live up.

I have seen friends in this situation become increasingly tired, unhappy and then displeased with the people in their lives who can't understand why they must do everything in a particular way. I'm not saying that is an inherent part of AP or an indication there is something wrong with the philosophy - but I am saying I have seen it play out this way and with the history of abuse, I would be really mindful to look at these choices very critically and make sure that you aren't getting too wrapped up in doing everything right. There is more than one way to be a good loving parent and to raise a happy, secure child.


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## SweetPotato (Apr 29, 2006)

Ugh. We went to a marriage counselor one time (over similar issues, it sounds) and he also started on me about "enmeshment" saying that dd and I were too attached/overbonded/whatever else you want to call it. We never went back. I'd totally find another therapist who will RESPECT you.


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## ladonnaken (Jan 1, 2007)

You know, what annoys me the most is how people who don't know anything about AP parenting tend to treat it like it's some kind of "internet thing" -- as if we aren't living in the real world. I happen to have studied child development in college, and everything I learned was AP--I just didn't know that label at the time. Redirection is a perfectly acceptable form of discipline for an 11 month old, or even for a toddler. She's right, babies don't have the cognitive ability for complexity---hence, using redirection, consistency, etc instead of "dog training" with a swat on the hand.

As for your hubby, I bet he's just not informed and is going on his own childhood. I would think that counseling involving marriage communication would be much more helpful for you guys...and I find that therapist you saw completely unprofessional!


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## RomanCarmelMom (Dec 2, 2008)

I'm so sorry! I would be irate if that had happened to me. It sounds like you have no support.









Could you write her a letter telling her how attacked you feel, and include a LONG list of books written by doctors and psychiatrists that promote AP and GD? Perhaps tell her SHE needs to do her research first rather than tell you that you are wrong, when she had NEVER EVEN HEARD of AP before you brought it up.


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## brooks97 (Apr 24, 2008)

That's irritating about the therapist.

My take on discipline is not one way is the absolute correct way to discipline a child. I think as a parent, we all need to figure out what works best with our children. As a couple, our spouses and us need to talk and draw out what is acceptable way to discipline our children.

Good luck!


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## columbusmomma (Oct 31, 2006)

I agree with find a new therapist! She is judging you and that is completely wrong. Run quickly away! Hugs for support for the issues with your DH. I would just talk to him as much as possible about this subject, provide him with books or resources, and try to understand where he is coming from too.


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## JamieB (Apr 1, 2008)

I see a social worker to talk through some of my depression issues and we were talking about bfing. I was having a hard time with it. She basically told me to stop bfing my 10 month old. She can't deny that the benefits of bfing are there but they're not worth it if you're having a hard time! Wouldn't that be quitting? And wouldn't that make me feel much worse? Oh and the issue was DS biting me. Hardly worth weaning over IMO.

Ugh, sorry to highjack. I have no advice but I hope you can find someone new that will be more helpful.


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## Masel (Apr 14, 2008)

I agree with goodygumdrops.
Your therapists job is to help you. You mentioned something that was bothering you and they offered solutions. I often don't like the solutions my therapists offers. Sometimes I do what she says and sometimes I don't feel that it is right for me.

Now is perhaps the time to learn to articulate what you find important in attachment parenting. Don't come at this from being defensive. Don't take it for granted that it is the right thing to do. Be skeptical about yourself. Maybe by challenaging your choices on parenting your therapist can help you find the words to explain "no" to your husband.

My therapist also thought that I wasn't being strict enough. I had a bad reaction to this but I did investigate further. My DD is almost 3 and I got some books recommened in the Gentle Discipline sticky and have learned that even within this philosophy I can be more of a disciplinarian and still be gentle. My DD is responding well.

Self examination doesn't mean you have to change either. This can give you confidence that you are making a decision because it is right and not reactionary to something in your childhood.

The last time I tried to disagree in a thread like this I was labeled a troll. I hope you can see that I'm trying to help. If my therapist has been a mom (even an adoptive mom) and an expert on child development I don't think I would have been as challenged in our sessions. As I said, I don't agree with everything she tells me but I do appreciate a different perspective. I think the difference is that she does get what attachment means from a psychology perspective and respects my ability to seek out information. Maybe you do need someone different but I don't think a competent therepist's parental status should be the sole criteria in their ability to do their job. I also don't believe that all of medicine is out to get the AP lifestyle.

Good luck mama. I hope you find some peace.


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## RomanCarmelMom (Dec 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JamieB* 
I see a social worker to talk through some of my depression issues and we were talking about bfing. I was having a hard time with it. She basically told me to stop bfing my 10 month old. She can't deny that the benefits of bfing are there but they're not worth it if you're having a hard time! Wouldn't that be quitting? And wouldn't that make me feel much worse? Oh and the issue was DS biting me. Hardly worth weaning over IMO.

Ugh, sorry to highjack. I have no advice but I hope you can find someone new that will be more helpful.


I suppose she doesn't know that the sudden change in hormones that comes with weaning can make depression worse?


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I think it is very important to use AP from day one, especially if you have had an abusive childhood. I think you should tell her that she should read the Attachment Parenting book and How to Talk so Kids Will Listen And Listen So Kids Will Talk book before she starts making judgements about AP.


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## wendypf (Aug 23, 2008)

first, hugs.

Second, and completely off topic. A friend of mine (who happens to be a child psychologist) didn't want to say no to her son either. Turns out he created his own word for no (ug) and says that all the time anyway.

I don't think she's AP and I don't know her opinions on gentle discipline, just think its a funny story. And its good to laugh


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## Cherie2 (Sep 27, 2006)

There is lots of good advice on this thread, I just wanted to add a thought about the word no.

I was very anti "no" before I had kids, but then I realized, "no" is an important part of the human language, and like the post above - that child created his own word for it... it has its place and I think avoiding it all together can be harmful.

ok, back on topic







i vote new therapist


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

just reading the op, I agree with your therepist to an extent - I think many times people who are part of dysfunctional familys swing far to the other side of the pendulum. That is certainly true for me.

however, I also think you need a different therepist because this one cant support you the way you need right now.


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## nolonger (Jan 18, 2006)

Another vote for a new therapist. the first one I took ds1 to said, "i don't see why you should care whether he goes to public school or homeschool as long as he's getting good grades and his teachers are happy with his work."








:

i'm not anti-therapist by any means, but it sounds like this one just isn't a good match for you. Keep shopping.

I had better luck with a naturopath than an MD for my anxiety attacks. The MD just wanted to prescribe pills but the ND showed me several ways of dealing with the cause of the problem.


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## riversong (Aug 11, 2005)

I'm sorry you don't seem to have much support for your parenting choices IRL. So many pps have already said this, but please find a therapist you feel comfortable with. This one is obviously not a good match for you. She would drive me crazy, too!


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## Bleu (Mar 6, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lolar2* 
It IS true that two-year-olds say "no" a lot.

That _can_ be true, but the screaming, continously oppositional toddler that many people (including psychologists) believe is universal... isn't. Of course toddlers need to start the process of individuation from the parent, but constant No's are culturally-specific, and are promoted by the kind of child-rearing that opposes AP/GD.

I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to see a sticky here with AP/GD/NFL-friendly therapists. I know they exist, but how to find them?

And good luck to the OP. Sounds like you know what to do. It's totally appropriate, btw, to ask some really pointed questions during or even before your first appt. The therapist is working for _YOU_, and feeling (pointlessly) attacked isn't exactly conducive to personal growth.


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## nolonger (Jan 18, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bleu* 
I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to see a sticky here with AP/GD/NFL-friendly therapists. I know they exist, but how to find them?

.









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## kaitlyncakesmama (Aug 22, 2008)

shoot. i just lost my response :/ i will try again tonight after dd is asleep. thanks for the responses so far though. i've taken something away from every post.


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## LionTigerBear (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Roar* 
It doesn't sound like the therapist was at all respectful of you as a thinking, caring person - but that said, and this isn't popular on MDC, I think the therapist was partially right that there can be a kind of all consuming AP that sometimes folks with really dysfunctional childhoods are drawn to. The moms absolutely mean well and want to be better moms than they had - but AP an become a rigid set of perfectionist rules that no one can live up.

I have seen friends in this situation become increasingly tired, unhappy and then displeased with the people in their lives who can't understand why they must do everything in a particular way. I'm not saying that is an inherent part of AP or an indication there is something wrong with the philosophy - but I am saying I have seen it play out this way and with the history of abuse, I would be really mindful to look at these choices very critically and make sure that you aren't getting too wrapped up in doing everything right. There is more than one way to be a good loving parent and to raise a happy, secure child.

I agree with this though. Even though I agree with AP, completely, sometimes the important thing is to just lighten up. _Nothing_ is worth stressing out about being perfect over. Being stressed about being a perfect parent will actually make you a worse parent! Coming from an abusive environment, your past was all about being controlled. That _instinct_ to want to control everything-- what your husband picked up on-- IS THERE. Lsiten to him about that. It IS okay to relax and be flexible about some things.







I've totally been there, bte-- I used to be very extreme in my AP views on parenting, and in my views on eating healthy food, and probably other things as well. Now I realize that none of this is as big a deal as I thought it was. Life is about learning, not about getting everything right the first time.

But I would still get a new therapist. You can tell your husband that you just don't feel _comfortable_ with this one-- that is isn't about a therapist having to _agree_ with you on everything, but you want someone who can challenge you gently and respectfully when it's called for.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

I can see both sides on finding a new therapist. However, to comment on a specific part of her advice, without judging overall good or bad for you...

One of the best things that DH and I did TOGETHER was to take a parenting class. We actually did this with the designated guardians for the kids. This way, we all knew we were on the same page. Of course, I carefully chose the the parenting class to support most of what I thought I was after (which was to NOT be my parents, BTW -- a very difficult and lofty goal for many of us). At any rate, being able to calming discuss hypothetical situations about discipline and child development was really helpful. It wasn't about me vs. him or about our child, it was about "a child" and it was much easier to think about both sides, to discuss options, poke at differences and come to some solutions when it wasn't as concrete as what was happening at home that minute. And it meant that my DH, who didn't have my background in child development, could get lots of factual info without having to take it from me -- make him much more receptive.

So, I would consider this part a peice of good advice, actually.


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## kaitlyncakesmama (Aug 22, 2008)

i was seeing the therapist for individual issues first. she was the one that suggested waiting on marriage counseling and dealing w/ my own problems first. that's why i was so surprised when she got involved w/ my parenting choices and made me feel like she was siding w/ my husband. i was more expecting something along the lines of helping me better communicate my views and how i feel when he questions what i want to do.

so i have control issues. i know that. but i don't think it's ap related, i just am in general. so it's one thing to tell me to relax a bit, give myself a reality check, and another to tell me what i'm doing is flat out wrong. okay, i admit *maybe* i have *moments* where i get a little out of hand, but overall i would say i'm not going overboard. that's MY opinion, of course. i definitely would not call it extreme, but the more i think about it, i am *aware* that my family and friends think what i do is...oh i don't know. i'm very anal about things. all things!

but i would not say that that would impact my daughter's well-being and happiness! i don't think it was fair for the therapist to say that i would "damage" dd's childhood. i also don't like to be made felt like what i'm doing is something that i pulled out of my ass or something i'm doing just to be different.

certainly my mindset is not to set out to find the most abstract ideas out there and do things just to prove myself to be a better mother than mine and every other mother out there. i mean...even before i found mdc, before i knew what ap was, i was heading down this road. i feel like ap is what comes naturally, what i believe works for us, and not something i force myself to do perfectly.

on saying no, i absolutely am not dead set against it! i just don't feel like it's necessary at this age and that there are better ways of telling her things. i want to set good habits now of open communication because saying no just seems like such a dead end. i don't expect my child to grow up never saying/hearing that, just want her to know that she has other options and that i will listen to her. i don't know if that makes sense.

i think the therapist does see children and families. the framed certifications on the wall, remember? at first when it was clear saw parenting differently, she said how i parent my child is my business and that she did not want to discuss that w/ me, even stating that she knew i wasn't there for parental advice. so i shut up thinking that issue was over, but that's when she really started w/ how what i was doing was wrong. actually, she said it wasn't "appropriate" and that i don't understand child development.

well, she must have seen one big red flag in me because she said all those things even if she could "lose a client" over it, she said so herself! so in some way, i respect her honesty (kind of?) but i'm really left feeling like...wth am i supposed to do then??

honestly would everybody feel a little better if i just let my baby cry more, plop a pacifier in her mouth all day and whatever the heck else they think i'm doing wrong?

i'd hate to think that i'd parent any differently had i not experienced the past the i have, but obviously i'm going to tell you that that is not what's on my mind every day, to make up for the childhood i wish i had.

and as for finding another therapist, my criteria was that they had to be a) covered under my insurance, and b) not a man, since the last guy i saw was pretty useless, and rather expensive. the last thing on my mind when dealing w/ MY issues would be to ask their parenting views! nobody is even available! and i need to find someone who has experience working w/ people who have been abused.

i think i'll see her one more time just to as about what happened yesterday so it doesn't feel so unresolved to me. *sigh*


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## jenneology (Oct 22, 2007)

I'm saying this coming from my graduate degree in child development. Although there are times that "no" is appropriate, a parent, caregiver, teacher can very frequently find ways to rephrase a direction in a positive manner.

http://www.valleyoakchildren.org/PDF...d%20Action.pdf

Quote:

State suggestions or directions in a positive
rather than a negative form.
A positive suggestion is one that tells a child what
to do instead of pointing out what he is not to do. A
positive direction is less likely to arouse resistance.
It makes help seem constructive rather than
limiting. When we make suggestions in a positive
way, we are giving the child a good social tool to
use. To put directions positively represents a step
in developing a more positive attitude inside
ourselves toward children's behavior.

From the first Guide to Speech.
This is used extensively in early childhood education settings. Its how I was taught as a preschool teacher (and I knew it before I had kids, therefore I had lots of practice with it). I have used it as a parent. Who did my kid learn "no" from (at 20 months old)? The 5 yr old neighbor. In a situation where I hear a child telling another child "no" or "don't touch that" or whatever, I'll ask the older child if he/she can think of way to tell the younger child what he/she would like to see or the other child do instead of what not to do. Most of the time it works. Parents, with practice, can break the habit of saying no to their kids all the time by saying what they want their child to be doing. Some examples: "Don't touch, no, no" becomes "Move away from there and leave those things alone" or "hands off;" "don't throw sand" becomes "leave the sand on the ground with the rest of the sand." When I was in school we had exercises that challenged us to reword our commands in such a way that it was phrased positively.

I'm not surprised that the therapist had never heard of the Guides to Speech and Action, but I am surprised that she would be so openly critical and uninformed on attachment parenting principles. If she's a marriage and family counselor, parenting education and skills should have been a emphasis of her education and professional development.

Also, taking sides is bad news with a therapist. At the age of 13, I fired a therapist because he sided with my bipolar, abusive father. It closes down communication and causes people to go on the defensive. Its the antithesis of what counseling/marriage therapy and mediation is supposed to be.

So my conclusion, fire the therapist. I'd recommend a therapist to you who is totally AP but she's in the bay area in CA. You don't happen to live near San Jose???


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## jenneology (Oct 22, 2007)

The other thing I wanted to address in my post, but forgot.

The therapist has obviously never heard of the term "transitional character."

Here's the definition:

Quote:

originally given by Carlfred Broderick in his 1980 book called "Marriage and the Family" (currently unavailable on amazon).

A transitional character is one who, in a single generation, changes the entire course of a lineage. The individuals who grow up in an abusive, emotionally destructive environment and who somehow find a way to metabolize the poison and refuse to pass it to their children. They break the mold. They refute the observations...that "the sins of the fathers are visited upon the heads of the children to the third and fourth generation. Their contribution to humanity is to filter the destructiveness out of their own lineage so that the generations downstream will have supportive foundations upon which to build productive lives.
I knew going into my role as a parent that I would a transitional character, that I would break the pattern of abuse in my family and be a totally different parent, basing my practices on sound theory and evidence based practice. AP is that for me. It supports and encourages basic biology, cognitive, social and emotional development without shame, neglect, and external motivators.

Anyway, I see her comment about you doing the opposite of your mother as an indication that you are becoming a transitional character for your children.

I'm not surprised she's never heard of the concept, but if I were in your shoes, I'd fire her but take that comment as a compliment that you are working to change your life and your children's lives for the better.


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## LionTigerBear (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kaitlyncakesmama* 
ibut i would not say that that would impact my daughter's well-being and happiness! i don't think it was fair for the therapist to say that i would "damage" dd's childhood. i also don't like to be made felt like what i'm doing is something that i pulled out of my ass or something i'm doing just to be different.

Definitely not cool for her to say that!







I agree that it is probably a good idea to see her one more time for closure, but beyond that, it seems like she probably can't be the kind of therapist you need.

P.S.-- for control issues, when you've already had the therapy and you know what you "should" do but it's still hard to relax and feel flexible (and I'm not talking about just parenting here, just in general) I suggest Bach flower therapies. They are a little pricey but cheaper than therapy and they work bette than therapy, in my experience.

As far as talkign about relaxing on the parenting/AP front, here's more of what I meant-- not necessarily to let your child cry more, or to start using a pacifier if you are opposed to it, but to recognize that people can do those things and still be very good parents. And that if you need to do one of those things, you can still be a very good parent. To give yourself a little more room and to give other people a little more credit. Does that make sense? For instance, one of my friends just had a baby and he nearly lives in his swing/crib/bucket seat. Literally-- he is hardly ever held (it seems to me). He is also on formula (mom's choice, didn't want to breastfeed) and he is very gassy, which I feel is most likely due to the formula (but who knows really). But you know what? She is still a good mom. He will still turn out just fine, because he is loved and cherished. I believe in my heart of hearts that he chose her to be his mom for a reason and they are together to learn from each other.

So it's more about just relaxing in the _philosophy_ of it all, I guess. Knowing that if I need to, I CAN use the pacifier or the baby swing or the TV more than I do now, and it would still turn out okay, makes me a better, more relaxed, more open-minded and peaceful mom. I know what parenting options are good, better, and best, and I know that you can't always give everything 100%, so you do what you can, and you do your best, and that's okay!!!

I also think it's really important to try to be understanding of other people's parenting styles and not be judgemental of those alternate (mainstream) choices whenever possible. Okay, sometimes I'm a little judgemental, but more of the idea and not of the other parent, if that makes sense.

Hope that makes some sense.


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## kaitlyncakesmama (Aug 22, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jenneology* 
So my conclusion, fire the therapist. I'd recommend a therapist to you who is totally AP but she's in the bay area in CA. You don't happen to live near San Jose???

OMG, YES I DO!!!

about the transitional charater thing, i've never heard of it but part of what is so hard for me to grasp is that she knows that i'm there for dealing w/ an abusive past, and that sometimes that is a nasty cycle that is passed down. and here i am telling her i want to do gentle discipline, that i want to be more positive by not saying no to everything, and she's saying that's wrong??

please, please get back to me about the therapist!!


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## flowers (Apr 8, 2004)

I think its really important for you to find a therapist that you feel respected by. You do not need to agree on everything but I would personally find someone who has similar life/parenting beliefs. If I am trying to study peace I would not go to the army to learn how.....unless I wanted a lesson in contrast!









Something that stood out to me was you feeling like everything is a battle- your ob, your ped, your therapist, your dh. It's funny b/c I felt that way with my first and it did seem like everyone had an opinion to offer that was opposite of what I was trying to do (family, doctor random ppl at parks). Now I look back and can see that I was not 100% confident and I think ppl were reflecting that back at me. Now with my second son I am a much more confident parent and I swear nobody says anything to me! I think its b/c I have more of an attitude of it not being up for conversation. Instead of saying, "We are trying to x, y z" I say, "We are x and we love it!". When my ped asks me if we are still nursing I say very firmly that we are and how rewarding of an experience it is. If she did not respect that I wouldn't take more than a second to say thank you I will find a new provider.

I think the more comfortable you are with your parenting choices the less people have to say (or maybe the less you care what they do say/think) and that of course comes with time and practice!

Good luck mama!


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## SusieRain (Jun 15, 2007)

I'm in that area and know of one, too.









PM me if you are interested.


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## redsfree (Apr 18, 2007)

A therapist is supposed to challenge and help you to look at things differently, BUT plain and simple, she doesn't have children and cannot truly relate to what you are experiencing. Even if she has extensive training or book smarts. Find yourself a challenging therapist who has kids and realizes parenting is never by the book. Good luck!


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

I hope one of the recommendations works for you.







:

I love this place.


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## JamieB (Apr 1, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RomanCarmelMom* 
I suppose she doesn't know that the sudden change in hormones that comes with weaning can make depression worse?

That never even crossed my mind. That is so so true. In fact, I can't even imagine a worse time to wean


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## ema-adama (Dec 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flowers* 
I think its really important for you to find a therapist that you feel respected by. You do not need to agree on everything but I would personally find someone who has similar life/parenting beliefs. If I am trying to study peace I would not go to the army to learn how.....unless I wanted a lesson in contrast!









Yes, pretty much what I was thinking, more eloquently put









Quote:

Something that stood out to me was you feeling like everything is a battle- your ob, your ped, your therapist, your dh. It's funny b/c I felt that way with my first and it did seem like everyone had an opinion to offer that was opposite of what I was trying to do (family, doctor random ppl at parks). *Now I look back and can see that I was not 100% confident and I think ppl were reflecting that back at me.
*
This has been something I have been thinking about. On the one hand I am very sure of myself and no one would guess that I doubt myself, but I am thinking that I will look back and realize that my confidence was taking a bashing each time someone offered me an opinion that I thought was ridiculous. Anyway, it makes sense what you are writing.

Quote:

Now with my second son I am a much more confident parent and I swear nobody says anything to me! I think its b/c I have more of an attitude of it not being up for conversation. Instead of saying, "We are trying to x, y z" I say, "We are x and we love it!". When my ped asks me if we are still nursing I say very firmly that we are and how rewarding of an experience it is. If she did not respect that I wouldn't take more than a second to say thank you I will find a new provider.
This is reassuring to read.

Quote:

I think the more comfortable you are with your parenting choices the less people have to say (or maybe the less you care what they do say/think) and that of course comes with time and practice!

Good luck mama!








I know this is not my post, but you are saying so clearly what I have been thinking. Kaitlyncakesmama.... just a big big







and I hope you find someone who complements you. Another small personal bit. DH and I are in counseling together, and DS is with us as there is no one else to care for him. Anyway, our therapist is so complementary on our parenting style and it really does make such a difference. I am more likely to trust any questions he has just knowing that he supports our parenting philosophy.


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## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

I hope you can find a better therapist, but if you do go back to this one, take a stack of books and articles explaining AP and GD from a very scientific perspective and explain that there are many well-documented reasons why the style of parenting that feels right to you is an ACCEPTABLE one with documented positive outcomes.

A decade ago, my insurance made me choose between just 2 therapists







and I took the less offensive one. After several sessions, I told her about something I was doing that really helped me cope, and she went on and on about how it was harmful, not helping me, and (though she didn't use this word) immoral. She repeatedly made one claim that was so false that I was able to walk into the library and photocopy a page from every encyclopedia there that said she was wrong! Although I wasted a week being furious about this rather than working on my problems, when I walked in the next week with my sheaf of copies and a couple of books by psychologists documenting the therapeutic use of my technique, that was really effective! She was impressed that I'd gone to the trouble, she admitted that she was wrong about that one claim and had said it in a desperate attempt to win the argument (!), and she conceded that this was helping ME even if it wasn't a choice SHE would make for me or herself. We agreed to stop discussing it and went on to make significant progress on my actual problems.

About the therapist being childless: Yes, it does mean she doesn't have that "I've been there" empathy, but sometimes experienced parents assume too much that parenthood is the same for others as it was for them, or they get defensive about their parenting style if you are advocating something different. I've had that type of experience with female gynecologists! "Well, I never had that symptom, so you must be making it up."


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## MoonStarFalling (Nov 4, 2004)

I would look into filing a complaint. It is not her business giving advice like that. She should be addressing the real issues. Heck I was totally ticked when my therapist said that I didn't have the right to have frustrations since I *choose* to be a SAHM


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

I vote for firing this therapist and getting a new one -- because this one isn't helpful, and also because I feel you could be putting your child at great risk by disclosing things about your personal life with this person. Here's why I think she's not a "safe" person with whom to share your life and parenting journey --

1)She's already said she thinks your history as an abused child could be obscuring your ability to make good parenting decisions -- and seems to be advising you not to trust your own instincts, but, rather, to let your dh and her direct your interactions with your child.

Therapists are trained on the cycle of abuse, and I think there's a strong tendency to view abused children as more "at risk" for becoming bad or even abusive parents themselves. I think the fact that you're seeking help shows you're proactively working to break the cycle, and are a great mama







-- but your therapist already seems predisposed not to believe in you, so how can this relationship be therapeutic?

2)She's also said she thinks your current parenting choices could "damage" your child. Never, never forget that therapists are "mandated reporters" -- they're obligated to call Child Protective Services if they see reasonable cause to suspect that a child is being harmed in any way (and that includes emotionally/mentally). And she's already made it clear that she suspects your child could be harmed if you continue in your "extreme" AP-ways.

I may sound overly-paranoid, and I probably am, because we recently had a "concerned" relative call Child Protective Services on us (thankfuly, the social worker saw no need to open a case "at this time").

And the sad thing is, I believe I could have avoided this (and maybe even the subsequent necessity of breaking off all contact with my extended family, though maybe that's for the best) if only I'd had the sense to distance myself from these people years ago, before even marrying and starting my own family.

Instead, I made our lives an open book. They knew all about my plans for child-led weaning, all about our co-sleeping, all about our decision to stop vaxing after dd1's 4-month shots, and all about our plans to not only homeschool, but to unschool and let/help our children pursue their own interests all day long.

They were openly disapproving, but I thought it was no biggie, I just didn't send my kids to visit on their own, we all went as a family-group, and I cut the visits short if/when the criticism started.

Then, one day, some straw got added that broke the camel's back. I don't even know what it was, all I know is that a few days after our last visit with my mom, there was a knock on our door and the Children's Services worker was standing there ...

I'm not trying to scare you needlessly: I realize that when you need therapy, you have to take a risk and let this outside person see into your life. I just advise you to be very careful in choosing who this person is.

So many in our society are ignorant of AP, and may genuinely see it as a harmful way to raise a child (though many of us here know it's really very wonderful, and can't imagine doing it any other way). And your child, and your new family, are just too precious to put them at risk for unnecessary, unwanted, and potentially-coercive interventions.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Excessive "advice" from a therapist (on any topic) on the 2nd visit is a red flag. A good therapist doles out direct advice very sparingly, after a solid rapport has been built, and as frequently as possible asks questions to lead you in the direction of your own answers, whatever they may be.


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## Cherie2 (Sep 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaduck* 
Excessive "advice" from a therapist (on any topic) on the 2nd visit is a red flag. A good therapist doles out direct advice very sparingly, after a solid rapport has been built, and as frequently as possible asks questions to lead you in the direction of your own answers, whatever they may be.

Yes!


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## Freud (Jan 21, 2008)

Oh my gosh. I would definitely not go back to see that therapist, and I might be inclined to tell her why. I'm a therapist and would never treat a client that way (and I don't think most would). Finding a good "match" with a therapist is not always easy. I would search around for others. So sorry that happened to you!


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## AntoninBeGonin (Jun 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kaitlyncakesmama* 
and then as i was leaving and paying (ugh), i asked the therapist if she had any children and she said no. surprise.

Ohhhh gawd







. Okay, I think it's time we parents implemented a hard and fast rule. We do not listen to anyone--no matter how many certificates are on their wall--about raising kids if that person has never raised a kid of their own.


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## Mom2Ian (Feb 7, 2008)

First









Just had to chime in here b/c I'm in my last year of a masters program in social work with a clinical concentration and I really think the therapist is way out of line. I would never, in my own life, or in therapy say those things to someone (even if I believed them....lol).

Also, I don't consider myself AP (I prefer to call it "parenting by instinct"...lol) but in most regards I look very much liike an AP parent and have basically the same ideals. My mother is a therapist and doesn't agree with many of the things I'm doing (although she is pretty good at keeping this to herself). Part of the reason I was drawn to this style of parenting is because I don't want to repeat my mother's mistakes. Oh yeah, and did I mention...she's a therapist too?









Anyway, I'm so sorry to hear that you are feeling so unsupported and attacked, and I just wanted you to know you're not alone, and it's definitely okay to dump that therapist in short order!









I'm sorry to hear that you feel your hubby isn't on board. I read that alot on MDC and it always surprises me. I can't imagine trying to live my values, doing the most important job in the world by my instincts and not having my partner support me in everything. That must be really, really hard.


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